**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 07 02:59:57 2009 Jan 07 03:02:22 Having problems pairing (using?) My n810 with a bluetooth keyboard Jan 07 03:03:01 It will not pair, now, bbut that wasn't the start of my troubles.... Jan 07 03:03:17 Kbd: rocketfish Jan 07 03:04:21 Basically, it has been reading the windows/apple key as pressed, repeatedly, even when it is not Jan 07 03:04:37 This is making pairing impossible Jan 07 03:04:50 Suggestions? Jan 07 03:05:35 is the key pressed down? Jan 07 03:05:41 spilled coke? Jan 07 03:05:50 No coke.... Jan 07 03:05:58 No keypressing Jan 07 03:06:26 It has frozen once or twicw in my car...... Jan 07 03:06:44 But it has functioned fine.... Jan 07 03:07:30 Fux Jan 07 03:08:01 It may be going back to bestbuy Jan 07 03:08:12 God, i love their warranty Jan 07 03:12:19 argh I missed lardman again :( Jan 07 03:57:35 does anyone know how to fix 'make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.18-6-686/build: no such file or directory. Stop.' ? Jan 07 04:50:14 heh Jan 07 04:50:17 i'm watching hackrs Jan 07 04:50:19 hackers Jan 07 04:50:35 classic Jan 07 04:54:03 watch hackers Jan 07 04:54:06 on an n770 Jan 07 04:54:10 VNCing to an n800 Jan 07 04:54:43 Also, first Hackers? Jan 07 05:17:03 anyone here a crosstool-ng expert? Jan 07 05:38:41 anyone can help with cross compile advise? Jan 07 05:47:45 hm Jan 07 05:48:00 guess not Jan 07 06:03:06 Sorry, just woken up and fucking inpuut method sent return to topic bar Jan 07 06:04:44 heh Jan 07 06:05:12 qwerty12_N800: you got crosstool experience? Jan 07 06:05:44 MiconFrink1, a bit Jan 07 06:05:53 huhu here temp is -14°C Jan 07 06:05:59 driving will be funny Jan 07 06:06:25 specially with my wheel which look like more and more slick Jan 07 06:07:21 I'm trying to put together a system that has to cross compile on both arm and x86-64 Jan 07 06:07:47 I'm wanting to do a completely scrited autobuild Jan 07 06:07:55 tried crosstool but I'm getting stuck Jan 07 06:08:13 I've not really messed with crosscompiles before Jan 07 06:08:49 Khertan: that sounds like *beautiful weather* -) Jan 07 08:09:54 morning Jan 07 08:11:07 sup Jan 07 08:13:34 ehlo Jan 07 08:15:48 i love my n810 Jan 07 08:16:18 hehe Jan 07 08:16:21 in what pose? Jan 07 08:19:49 xD Jan 07 08:21:45 i'm having a hard time convincing my body it's morning and i should actually wake up :P Jan 07 08:23:02 lol, what time u have there? Jan 07 08:23:07 9:22am Jan 07 08:23:21 2:23am from mexico Jan 07 08:23:24 where are you? Jan 07 08:23:29 europe? Jan 07 08:23:44 * RST38h is being attacked by rabid S90 users Jan 07 08:24:14 Suggested the first two to just dump their 7710s and buy NITs, but these zombies keep coming Jan 07 08:24:25 hehe Jan 07 08:24:38 lol Jan 07 08:25:17 where u guys from? Jan 07 08:25:20 europe? Jan 07 08:25:29 .dk, but it doesnt matter Jan 07 08:26:02 .dk? Jan 07 08:26:20 hmmm, my attempt at a maemo build space isn't working Jan 07 08:28:22 good morning #maemo Jan 07 08:31:17 http://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Platform_Development/index.html Jan 07 08:31:21 this document Jan 07 08:31:28 does anyone know if I can download the examples somewhere? Jan 07 08:31:50 the majority of it is example text Jan 07 08:35:20 good morning, pupnik_ Jan 07 08:36:34 blah Jan 07 08:36:45 morn MaceN800 Jan 07 08:36:54 how are things going sts Jan 07 08:37:01 waking up Jan 07 08:37:15 saturday when my son leaves to stay with his mother... i'm going to start working on gettin android and mer on my n800 Jan 07 08:37:25 how is mer coming along? Jan 07 08:37:40 decently Jan 07 08:37:47 it is maemo right? Jan 07 08:37:55 yeah, hildon like desktop Jan 07 08:38:04 so it's not actually hildon? Jan 07 08:38:21 define hildon like :) Jan 07 08:38:36 are there other enviroments for it yet? Jan 07 08:39:04 it is hildon-desktop components, hildon theme plankton, but currently lacks applications in the base image beyond screenshot taker, advanced backlight, load applet Jan 07 08:39:12 .. cos we didn't compile them just yet Jan 07 08:39:19 morning Jan 07 08:39:32 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer0.5/ <- pics from a bit of apt-getting Jan 07 08:40:32 How long until it is going to reach official Maemo in functionality Jan 07 08:40:33 ? Jan 07 08:40:44 i see Jan 07 08:40:53 you use that box i made sts? Jan 07 08:41:06 MaceN800: not yet, got builder up and running sanely so Jan 07 08:41:20 RST38h: depends on what functionality is defined as :P Jan 07 08:41:22 ah ok. just let me know if you have problems with it Jan 07 08:41:39 it should be pretty stable.. and i'll work on getting it to move a little quicker Jan 07 08:41:52 if it doesn't i'll build you a dedicated box Jan 07 08:42:10 so mer is pretty immature then huh? Jan 07 08:42:31 on the contrary really Jan 07 08:42:46 sdk works, it builds many maemo apps already Jan 07 08:43:04 and they run without issue in mer Jan 07 08:43:15 i see Jan 07 08:43:22 are you going to integrate cups into mer? Jan 07 08:43:38 that would be awesome Jan 07 08:43:38 if anyone wanted to apt-get it, it probably would be possible Jan 07 08:44:08 hm.. some day i should try getting the cross compiling working and see about getting a base kde going Jan 07 08:44:32 you can probably just apt-get it in mer :P Jan 07 08:44:33 pb made a huge tarball ver with a million programs Jan 07 08:44:37 heh Jan 07 08:44:40 that would be awesome Jan 07 08:44:56 pb made a working kde but .. Jan 07 08:45:05 it has a lot of unnecessary things in the install Jan 07 08:45:16 would have been better to start with a base and allow users to choose which apps to install Jan 07 08:45:30 we have basically seperated hildon into being a X session like any other Jan 07 08:45:59 i see Jan 07 08:46:13 what about the user layout? Jan 07 08:46:22 hm? Jan 07 08:46:27 does it come with only user by default like maemo? Jan 07 08:46:32 or does it use a normal user scheme? Jan 07 08:46:59 we currently have 'user' but johnx is doing the first boot wizard atm Jan 07 08:47:09 no shit huh? Jan 07 08:47:10 where it asks for username, real name, timezone, etc Jan 07 08:47:11 wow that's awesome Jan 07 08:47:13 are the maemo training materials available in some other format? I'm seeing hints that you can 'generate' it or something Jan 07 08:47:31 do you have to flash it with a win app? Jan 07 08:47:51 MaceN800: well it's a tar.gz right now, but we plan to be able to flash jffs2 images Jan 07 08:48:01 qwerty12 did that last night without problems, soo Jan 07 08:48:06 wow Jan 07 08:48:22 i'll start playing with it soon Jan 07 08:48:29 on saturday i'll start Jan 07 08:48:44 can i apt get dev tools? Jan 07 08:48:45 heh Jan 07 08:48:45 RST38h: problem functionality is really the icd, icons, dsp blobs Jan 07 08:48:49 MaceN800: yeah Jan 07 08:48:51 to build on the n800 Jan 07 08:49:02 you'd want to get scratchbox mer sdk instead though Jan 07 08:49:14 Sts: Can't these be taken from Maemo? Jan 07 08:49:22 i see Jan 07 08:49:34 figured it would be interesting to build on the n800 itself Jan 07 08:49:35 RST38h: yeah, i tried some of those things yesterday Jan 07 08:49:58 might go slow as shit but i'm patient and wouldn't need to cross compile Jan 07 08:49:59 heh Jan 07 08:50:00 RST38h: but that requires some degree of procedure with nokia about being able to redistribute :) Jan 07 08:50:07 anyone know of dbus examples that aren't in html format? Jan 07 08:50:11 / distribute Jan 07 08:50:30 Sts: Package them separately and distribute them as "non-free-nokia-binaries" Jan 07 08:50:32 I'd love to try example code to see what it does Jan 07 08:51:02 RST38h: yeah, except for chicken-and-egg problem, its kinda difficult to grab those binaries without icd, from user friendly point of view :P Jan 07 08:51:32 we'll see Jan 07 08:51:36 no offense.. but they should open it up anyways if they are going to ditch the hardware soon Jan 07 08:52:00 android is a very good portable OS Jan 07 08:52:44 G1 has better hardware than n8x0 and if they stick with hildon in maemo 5 they are going Jan 07 08:52:52 to lose :) Jan 07 08:53:02 MaceN800: i have pretty good hope for the new hildon though Jan 07 08:53:24 i hope so.. it seems rather dated compared to using my G1 Jan 07 08:53:37 in a way it kind of remidns me of win 3.11 heh Jan 07 08:53:51 isn't the new maemo going to use qt? Jan 07 08:53:54 and they're definately sticking with hildon, nothing wrong with the technology Jan 07 08:54:03 it's going to support it Jan 07 08:54:05 hildon seems lacking Jan 07 08:54:16 it is not as pretty as android Jan 07 08:54:16 should I be using some other documentation source? I'm finding an awful lot of choices and I don't know if they're right Jan 07 08:54:25 MaceN800: it's a matter of theming, heh Jan 07 08:54:27 or wrong, or not good starting points or anything Jan 07 08:54:47 Stskeeps, i dunno about that. symbian has tons of themes and it doesn't come close as looking as nice as android Jan 07 08:55:02 i'm not saying that hildon is bad.. but if they stick with it.. they will fall behind Jan 07 08:55:35 *shrug* :) Jan 07 08:55:41 haha Jan 07 08:56:01 i have high hopes for the n800 android Jan 07 08:56:04 i'm not inclined to agree or disagree. i disagree with some things in android and i disagree with some things in hildon Jan 07 08:56:39 is there another channel for programming discussion? Jan 07 08:56:42 MaceN800: yeah, except they're hurting as much as other open source things on tablets, in the fact they won't be able to get stuff like sound, etc going Jan 07 08:56:55 hachi: most of your questions are very googable :P Jan 07 08:57:04 I started with google Jan 07 08:57:09 Stskeeps, yeah i noticed Jan 07 08:57:13 no bluetooth either Jan 07 08:57:24 my first question, where can I download the code on this page in another format Jan 07 08:57:34 isn't very googlable, since google sent me to that page in the first place Jan 07 08:57:34 then again.. android bt stack sucks on a g1 Jan 07 08:57:38 it's in the SDK probably, hachi Jan 07 08:57:51 right now android only supports an earpiece Jan 07 08:57:51 apt-gettable Jan 07 08:57:53 it is? I don't see this documented at all Jan 07 08:59:17 sts.. does mer start hildon? Jan 07 08:59:18 MaceN800: and i'm all for the versality of the devices, which means maemo/mer/android etc should be able to coexist. i should be able to run a QT application if i want to and i have space Jan 07 08:59:22 yeah, initially Jan 07 08:59:30 apt-cache search doesn't show it in my build environment Jan 07 08:59:40 Stskeeps, true Jan 07 08:59:55 know.. now that i think about it Jan 07 09:00:05 isn't android just a linux kernel ? Jan 07 09:00:13 what do they use for the UI? X? Jan 07 09:00:27 or do they use something new? Jan 07 09:00:27 android is kinda specialized linux kernel, framebuffer UI, and a "java" like VM, dalvik Jan 07 09:00:50 meh, how specialized? :P Jan 07 09:01:00 fb UI? Jan 07 09:01:05 with accel 3D? Jan 07 09:01:08 framebuffer UI and not directfb? Google wasted a lot of time apparently Jan 07 09:01:42 why not? acceleration can be done there, by rendering to texture or such Jan 07 09:01:46 `apt-cache search dbus`, `apt-cache search training`, `apt-cache search example` Jan 07 09:01:50 MaceN800: no accel 3d, think it's software rendering really Jan 07 09:02:09 all prefixed with sb2 of course Jan 07 09:02:10 Stskeeps, i don't knjow. it looks hw Jan 07 09:02:14 hachi: it's a linux machine deep down, you can get any kind of information non-specific to that Jan 07 09:02:19 looks as good as my n95 Jan 07 09:02:37 MaceN800: yeah, but they don't have 3d accel, especially not when even maemo doesn't have it Jan 07 09:02:42 what? Jan 07 09:02:52 yes, I'm sure I can dig into how it works Jan 07 09:02:58 hachi: as in, if you want dbus examples, you can look everywhere for them Jan 07 09:03:00 I'm looking for example dbus code though Jan 07 09:03:14 I found some Jan 07 09:03:15 http://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Platform_Development/APPENDIX_D_Source_code_for_the_GLibDBus_synchronous_example.html#glibdbussynccommondefsh Jan 07 09:03:15 doesn't matter if it's for ubuntu or for maemo Jan 07 09:03:18 here Jan 07 09:03:25 I just want them not in 'html' Jan 07 09:03:29 perhaps as source code files Jan 07 09:03:41 you said they were apt-gettable Jan 07 09:04:36 http://mirror.engineeringlinux.org/maemo4.x_training_v1.3/files/maemo_Platform_Development/ Jan 07 09:04:49 yes, but i'm not exactly an authority am i? Jan 07 09:04:50 I don't even see that link anywhere Jan 07 09:04:55 (and i found that by googling for glib-dbus-sync) Jan 07 09:04:58 how did oyu find that? Jan 07 09:05:05 you could -probably- just as well have copy-and-pasted Jan 07 09:05:12 I tried to copy and paste Jan 07 09:05:16 CPU: The MSM7201A is a dual-core CPU/GPU from Qualcomm and contains many built in features including 3G and a GPU capable of up to 4 million triangles/sec. It has hardware acceleration for Java,[10] but this does not accelerate execution of Android applications, as they are targeted to the Dalvik VM, not the Java VM. Jan 07 09:05:23 it blasted my xterm buffer or something Jan 07 09:05:38 4 Mt/s Jan 07 09:05:45 I'm puzzling over why I have to use a 3rd party search engine to search for things on the same site Jan 07 09:05:45 MaceN800: fair enough, i was speaking on n800 and android Jan 07 09:05:49 but thank you Jan 07 09:05:56 oh Jan 07 09:05:58 heh Jan 07 09:06:05 my bad Jan 07 09:06:18 i was talking about the g1 Jan 07 09:06:23 hachi: http://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/ Jan 07 09:06:25 look in bottom Jan 07 09:06:37 but that's 404, lovely Jan 07 09:07:02 hachi: open a bug for broken documentation Jan 07 09:07:08 isn't supposed to be like that Jan 07 09:07:26 west wing cracks me up Jan 07 09:07:41 mm, good series Jan 07 09:08:21 yeah, good balance of comedy and drama Jan 07 09:09:00 'aren't the people going to think i'm soft on turkeys' Jan 07 09:10:21 MaceN800: besides that, nokia probably balanced speed & power consumption over flashiness, cos there was no access to 3d accel Jan 07 09:10:24 there's now though Jan 07 09:10:36 (in rx-51) Jan 07 09:11:13 and android reinvented API so they're not backwards compatible :P Jan 07 09:11:49 which makes things easier, but also cuts off a lot of existing good apps Jan 07 09:11:54 / libraries Jan 07 09:12:34 yow Jan 07 09:12:37 report a bug Jan 07 09:12:52 and it gets sent to 4 people and one mailing list? Jan 07 09:13:09 hachi: yeah, the people responsible for this area Jan 07 09:13:16 as in, the one you just reported it for Jan 07 09:15:51 /opt/maemo/tools/arm-2005q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-as: unrecognized option `-Qy' Jan 07 09:16:10 I don't even know how to parse that error... make didn't give me a commandline it was executing Jan 07 09:16:19 and the previous command is just 'cc' Jan 07 09:16:27 no -Qy option I can see anywhere Jan 07 09:16:32 your toolchain is broken Jan 07 09:16:35 what SDK version are you using? Jan 07 09:16:35 :) Jan 07 09:16:48 I dunno, one that I built yesterday according to... Jan 07 09:16:59 http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install-debian.html Jan 07 09:17:00 that doc Jan 07 09:17:20 report a bug, but normal people use scratchbox 1 until sb2 is stable :P Jan 07 09:17:31 why does the doc say to use sb2! Jan 07 09:17:37 *headdesk* Jan 07 09:17:42 it doesn't Jan 07 09:17:43 how do I know which docs to follow? Jan 07 09:17:57 [Host] $ sb2 -eR dpkg -i maemopad_2.4_armel.deb Jan 07 09:18:02 sb2 Jan 07 09:18:49 http://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Getting_Started/index.html specifically talks of sb Jan 07 09:18:52 1 Jan 07 09:19:11 I used google to get that doc yesterday Jan 07 09:19:31 I'm not sure how to find docs that aren't too new or too old without asking Jan 07 09:20:01 maemo.org -> development -> training Jan 07 09:20:39 so Jan 07 09:20:43 I built a machine for this Jan 07 09:20:54 should I just blow it away and start again? Jan 07 09:21:13 or do you think (I can't hold you to this) that it will coexist okay Jan 07 09:24:14 should cooexist fine :P Jan 07 10:23:54 blah Jan 07 10:23:57 ran out of disk space Jan 07 10:24:09 the installer script told me to delete /scratchbox Jan 07 10:24:26 and then dpkg throws a fit because I deleted /scratchbox the next time I run it Jan 07 11:11:07 Is there an X-Fade around anywhere? Jan 07 11:25:06 alterego: Ehm yep ;) Jan 07 11:25:23 Can you get me access to extras? :) Jan 07 11:25:34 I've been told on several occasions to bug you :P Jan 07 11:25:53 alterego: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php?target=invitation_request Jan 07 11:26:00 Already done that .. Jan 07 11:26:03 You can request access there.. Jan 07 11:26:08 Hmm, when? :) Jan 07 11:26:08 Haven't had an answer. Jan 07 11:26:13 I must have missed that.. Jan 07 11:26:15 Boxing day Jan 07 11:26:56 heh, well I shouldn't have missed that.. Jan 07 11:26:58 Let's see. Jan 07 11:30:23 X-Fade: tswindell Jan 07 11:30:23 Ah yeah, the ruby guy. Jan 07 11:30:23 :P Jan 07 11:30:31 "The ruby guy" ^_^ Jan 07 11:30:47 You should receive an invitation in your mail shortly.. Jan 07 11:30:51 As in now.. Jan 07 11:30:58 :) Jan 07 11:31:23 woo! :) Jan 07 11:32:03 So I just follow those instructions and I should be all setup? Can't really do it right now as I'm at work but will get on it this evening. Jan 07 11:32:06 oh man, we're back to the days of "computer in a keyboard:" http://www.gottabemobile.com/2009/01/07/eeepc-keyboard/ Jan 07 11:32:40 alterego: Yes, you should now be able to setup things yourself. Jan 07 11:32:43 johnx: that's great .. As it's the most likely piece of equipment I'll spill liquid on .. Jan 07 11:32:50 X-Fade: thank you very much :) Jan 07 11:33:00 alterego: https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Jan 07 11:33:10 That will tell you everything, I hope.. Jan 07 11:33:13 Yeah, I've got all the docs bookmarkd :) Jan 07 11:33:22 alterego, yeah, I was starting to get used to the "computer in a monitor." those actually make sense to me, but I'm sure asus will sell a million Jan 07 11:33:22 Well, if not I'll make sure I update the pages ;) Jan 07 11:33:33 Heh Jan 07 11:33:48 johnx: pymaemo is interesting on mer. Jan 07 11:34:21 Stskeeps: define "interesting" please :) Jan 07 11:34:21 Stskeeps, looking at lots of thing in ubuntu that would be interesting. I'm not making much forward progress with the timezone select, sadly Jan 07 11:34:48 good point: is this "good" interesting or "special" interesting Jan 07 11:35:19 "special" Jan 07 11:35:31 for work im regenerating pygtk atm :P Jan 07 11:37:49 X-Fade: just a comment on the invitation email. Maybe instead of using my username it should use my real name stored in the profile :) Jan 07 11:38:04 its just cos pymaemo is quite out of touch with how packages are named in lets say ubuntu, so Jan 07 11:40:15 alterego: Yeah, that is an option. Although I think that is what gforge does by default. Jan 07 11:40:25 Ah, okay. Jan 07 11:49:57 Stskeeps: What's url for Merecho theme? Jan 07 11:50:19 sec Jan 07 11:50:28 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/4996/MerEcho.deb Jan 07 11:50:34 woo! Jan 07 11:50:52 woo? Jan 07 11:51:03 MerEcho theme Jan 07 11:51:09 ah, yeah, old actually Jan 07 11:51:14 he's finishing something up this week Jan 07 11:51:31 ah, might as well wait then Jan 07 11:52:19 ... integrating zenity into other people's bash scripts is somewhat painful and also...holy gods there are more timezones in the US than I knew about Jan 07 11:53:07 Heh Jan 07 11:53:50 http://pastebin.ca/1302673 Jan 07 11:54:53 you start to understand why nokia has the world map thing? ;) Jan 07 11:55:24 I'm still not convinced a two step list will be much slower really, it's just punctuation that's tripping me up :/ Jan 07 11:56:30 countries are allowed to have apostrophes in them, a horrible mistake that needs to be rectified post-haste Jan 07 11:56:34 hehe Jan 07 12:00:19 maemo's first boot wizard-thing is closed, right? Jan 07 12:01:02 i'm not 100% on that Jan 07 12:01:05 * aquatix is geeking out with LCARS Okuda Jan 07 12:01:19 johnx: i -think- so :P Jan 07 12:01:25 aquatix, try not to go blind. those colors are damaging Jan 07 12:01:59 Stskeeps, seems like the kind of thing that would be...I don't even know the package name or executable name though... Jan 07 12:05:55 johnx: it already took its toll: i actually like it Jan 07 12:06:27 aquatix is going insane. :P Jan 07 12:06:30 aquatix, ah, the okuda theme is the blue-ish colors, right? not the bright painful off-yellow? Jan 07 12:06:31 it's nice and clean Jan 07 12:06:36 johnx: yep Jan 07 12:06:44 a lot better than those older ones imho Jan 07 12:06:55 this is the new one from september last year Jan 07 12:07:54 Stskeeps: theme wants to write something it home dir... Jan 07 12:08:12 now it tries to find /home/user Jan 07 12:08:36 i have only /home/roope Jan 07 12:08:45 Meiz_n810: well then Jan 07 12:13:09 hi Jan 07 12:13:48 just a quick question, is it true that the n810 can't connect to the GSM network? Jan 07 12:13:57 this is what i read in a few reviews Jan 07 12:14:36 it can connect through a bluetooth cellphone. Next nokia device will have 3g/HSDPA Jan 07 12:15:29 ok, so it's true Jan 07 12:15:34 it's not really a GSM phone Jan 07 12:15:47 exactly. It's a internet tablet, not a phone Jan 07 12:15:54 okay Jan 07 12:16:00 sorry to bother Jan 07 12:16:07 no worries :) Jan 07 12:16:14 It's closer to MID or UMPC than a phone anyways Jan 07 12:16:21 ueah Jan 07 12:16:42 still, i need a phone, so if it does everything but that, that's not really that good... :-( Jan 07 12:16:50 sure it is. :) Jan 07 12:16:52 darn, that's a bummer Jan 07 12:16:59 * Stskeeps hardly uses his phone these days Jan 07 12:17:03 thank god they refuzed my payment :-D Jan 07 12:17:11 except for bluetooth tethering Jan 07 12:17:20 yeah, take this opportunity to do a little more reasearch :) Jan 07 12:17:40 hehe Jan 07 12:18:00 believe me i did the research, i just wouldn't have dreamt it wouldn't have a SIM place Jan 07 12:18:10 it doesn't, but next device will Jan 07 12:18:11 well, /me off the the openmoko boutique :-D Jan 07 12:18:28 and i wouldn't touch a openmoko personally Jan 07 12:18:35 soul9, check out the new android phones getting announced at CES too :) Jan 07 12:18:51 Stskeeps: why's that? Jan 07 12:19:02 soul9: actually tried one while i was in dublin Jan 07 12:19:04 * aquatix likes the n810 a lot better than the openmoko Jan 07 12:19:07 the software isn't quite there yet... Jan 07 12:19:12 yeah, i know Jan 07 12:19:16 soul9: it's slow, and software is quite unstable Jan 07 12:19:17 _but_ it's a phone Jan 07 12:19:18 granted, i didn't use the openmoko personally Jan 07 12:19:25 slow? Jan 07 12:19:28 but i tried and read enough stories Jan 07 12:19:31 Stskeeps: when did you try it? Jan 07 12:19:39 soul9: a couple of months ago Jan 07 12:19:47 hmm Jan 07 12:20:02 god, so there is nothing like the iphon currently lol Jan 07 12:20:14 great, now what :-( Jan 07 12:20:27 well, anywho, i do ned a phone, might as well get a freerunner. Jan 07 12:20:34 just get a cheap 3g bluetooth phone and an internet tablet Jan 07 12:20:37 qtopia is kinda stable i thing Jan 07 12:20:39 or wait for the rx-51 to come out Jan 07 12:20:55 yeah, that's gonna cost a great deal of money though Jan 07 12:20:57 (which still isn't a phone, .. we think) Jan 07 12:21:12 yeah, but on the other hand you get a machine that can be hacked to bits :) Jan 07 12:21:31 no need for unlock, jailbreak, etc Jan 07 12:21:32 or get an unlocked HTC G1 Jan 07 12:21:47 does that have windows mobile? :-D Jan 07 12:21:58 htc's tend to use windows Jan 07 12:22:03 and it's not open eithre Jan 07 12:22:09 android, when "unlocked" :P Jan 07 12:22:23 +open Jan 07 12:22:28 yeah Jan 07 12:22:48 the G1 is one of the Android phones Jan 07 12:22:49 god darn it, i was so into the n810 Jan 07 12:23:03 I still say N800/N810 + cheap 3G phone Jan 07 12:23:21 yeah, i wouldn't want to put the tablet to my ear anyway Jan 07 12:23:23 that way you can keep the phone stable and reliable and hack on the tablet all you want Jan 07 12:23:23 i don't have enough oney for that Jan 07 12:23:30 i just have enough for the n810 Jan 07 12:23:38 soul9: got an existing phone with data plan? Jan 07 12:23:41 what price would you pay for the N810? Jan 07 12:23:42 no Jan 07 12:23:47 i don't have a phone Jan 07 12:23:59 otherwise i wouldn't complain about the n810 not being gsm enabled Jan 07 12:24:04 got wimax in your town? :P Jan 07 12:24:10 heheh Jan 07 12:24:18 samsung u100 Jan 07 12:24:18 or get a cheap phone *first* then get a tablet after saving some money Jan 07 12:24:25 heh Jan 07 12:24:27 yeah Jan 07 12:24:31 7mm thick Jan 07 12:25:18 but at this point a tablet is probably just as much of a phone as a freerunner is Jan 07 12:25:49 hahaha Jan 07 12:26:00 soul9: i wish johnx was kidding.. Jan 07 12:26:01 anyways, N800+3G phone is probably close to N810 alone Jan 07 12:26:03 yeah, i hear the moko can put calls only from the cmdline for now Jan 07 12:26:27 hehehe Jan 07 12:26:29 and a "two device" system works well for a lot of reasons Jan 07 12:26:48 commandline isn't that bad unless you don't have a keyboard...oh wait Jan 07 12:26:55 heheh Jan 07 12:26:56 you can always go for the strategy of buying phone + tablet, start being a developer, get famous, and get developer rebate for rx-51 Jan 07 12:26:59 ;) Jan 07 12:27:05 :-D Jan 07 12:27:13 that's my plan :) Jan 07 12:27:53 though this looks like a neat solution too: http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/06/hands-on-with-novatels-mifi-3g-hotspot/ Jan 07 12:27:59 wonder how much it will cost... Jan 07 12:28:11 i thought about knitting it into my jacket Jan 07 12:28:11 :P Jan 07 12:28:15 one can treat n810+phone s a pocket version of the desk phone Jan 07 12:28:48 Stskeeps, you need more pockets... Jan 07 12:29:00 you have got the phone and the handset Jan 07 12:29:21 did anyone figure out how to use nokia n800 as a phone headset yet? Jan 07 12:29:29 (not sure why anyone would) Jan 07 12:30:01 why would you Jan 07 12:30:22 ah, making it act like a BT headset? Jan 07 12:30:25 yeah Jan 07 12:30:31 cos i often run around with my headset on my n800 for music purposes anyway Jan 07 12:30:38 and i would be happy having my phone just be a dongle Jan 07 12:31:07 that's pretty easy Jan 07 12:31:16 if it uses the bluez linux bluetooth stack Jan 07 12:31:25 soul9: the n810 is a lot more polished and works beautifully with my bt-enabled phone Jan 07 12:31:47 soul9, sometimes things in embedded linux are ... different Jan 07 12:31:49 yeah, i really aim for the 810 Jan 07 12:32:05 sometimes, things on proprietary platforms are....different Jan 07 12:32:43 so to respond: no it's not as easy as you think it is Jan 07 12:32:59 yeah, since the hw isn't open :-D Jan 07 12:33:05 *but* at least it works Jan 07 12:33:11 unlike the freerunner :-D Jan 07 12:33:29 soul9: you did see internettablettalk.com/forums ? Jan 07 12:33:30 *sigh* no it's not really related to hte hw not being "open" Jan 07 12:33:32 in your research Jan 07 12:34:01 johnx: okay, i admint i dunno Jan 07 12:34:06 admit* Jan 07 12:34:09 just saying.. Jan 07 12:34:29 Stslaptop: nope Jan 07 12:34:34 checking now Jan 07 12:34:41 you should try to browse through it Jan 07 12:34:48 and see what amazing things people do with these devices Jan 07 12:34:56 yeah, i know, i can imagine Jan 07 12:35:32 i'm a developper too, you know, i've been following the moko's development since the project was announced Jan 07 12:36:01 and just when it's released and out, and i have enough € to purchase, i go and but a proprietary thing Jan 07 12:36:11 s/but/buy Jan 07 12:36:19 which proprietary thing? Jan 07 12:36:21 anyways, thanks for the pointers Jan 07 12:36:24 n810 Jan 07 12:36:26 heh, it's a 80/20 rule for nokia tablets Jan 07 12:36:37 80% open source, 20% closed Jan 07 12:36:45 soul9, but your order didn't go through, right? Jan 07 12:36:48 and the closed bits you can mostly get rid of Jan 07 12:36:55 the hardware is 100% closed Jan 07 12:36:58 eh Jan 07 12:37:00 johnx: heh, yeah Jan 07 12:37:02 soul9: i share your feeling, but still i like the n810 better Jan 07 12:37:04 you can flash any OS on it you want, soul9 Jan 07 12:37:09 (.. if it's linux) Jan 07 12:37:11 soul9, no. it's not Jan 07 12:37:18 aquatix: actually, for now me too Jan 07 12:37:21 johnx: oh? Jan 07 12:38:07 soul9, there's a close source firmware for the wifi and bt (just like on the desktop), and some closed battery charging software...but that's about it Jan 07 12:38:49 soul9: we have android, gentoo, debian, ubuntu on tablet as well :P Jan 07 12:38:50 oh, nice Jan 07 12:38:50 that's about the same as with the freerunner Jan 07 12:38:56 okay Jan 07 12:39:00 yes Jan 07 12:39:05 and Nokia is actively involved with the community Jan 07 12:39:09 yeah, then the hw is as open as on the freerunner Jan 07 12:39:19 okay, that's good to know too :-DS Jan 07 12:39:22 me and johnx and others are even working for supporting the next OS version on N8x0/770s Jan 07 12:39:24 soul9, the situation has changed. Nokia released an open source wifi driver recently and peopler are working on it Jan 07 12:39:34 great, i'm not going to feel bad when i have my n810 in my pocket Jan 07 12:39:44 i have an old sony ericcson i guess i could use Jan 07 12:39:45 Stslaptop: and just fyi, that rocks :) Jan 07 12:39:50 what a piece of sh*t tho Jan 07 12:39:57 Stslaptop: thought i'd share some kudos ;) Jan 07 12:40:00 if it has bluetooth and gprs, you're good to go Jan 07 12:40:09 (or edge) Jan 07 12:40:13 or even 3g Jan 07 12:40:15 yeah, it does have bluetooth and gprs Jan 07 12:40:21 * aquatix loves his SE m600i - nokia n810 combo Jan 07 12:40:22 then it's the perfect n810 companion Jan 07 12:40:25 don't think it can do data transfer through bt tho Jan 07 12:40:34 * Stslaptop has SE k610i - nokia n800 Jan 07 12:40:37 ah, sad. maybe someone has a hack for it Jan 07 12:40:38 soul9: flash a new firmware on it? Jan 07 12:40:44 err Jan 07 12:40:49 well, i dunno Jan 07 12:40:56 some world version Jan 07 12:40:57 i don't think i'd use gsm internet tho Jan 07 12:41:12 there's enough open wifi hotspots around to ba allright Jan 07 12:41:18 s/ba/be Jan 07 12:41:22 if it's not even edge...then yeah, might not be worth it Jan 07 12:41:32 except when you're in the polish mountains and you forgot to download iodine.. Jan 07 12:41:44 well, /me off to lunch, thanks for the info guys, and see y'all around Jan 07 12:41:52 Stslaptop: hahahah, yeah Jan 07 12:42:03 soul9, yeah, read up on itt :) Jan 07 12:42:16 there's posts all the way back from 2005 or something :P Jan 07 12:42:17 then again, in the polish mountains you'd prolly need a satellite phone Jan 07 12:42:19 so plenty of stuff Jan 07 12:42:23 will do Jan 07 12:42:25 soul9: nah, wifi exists :P Jan 07 12:42:34 :-D Jan 07 12:42:38 satellite wifi? :-P Jan 07 12:42:50 Stskeeps, heh, my SE W51S decided to lose signal last time I went hiking. wouldn't even do the GPS thing :/ Jan 07 12:43:13 my se w810i is cr*p Jan 07 12:43:21 the series has a design problem with the battery Jan 07 12:43:27 so the phone turns off all the time Jan 07 12:43:30 yeah, got same problem Jan 07 12:43:36 on my k610i Jan 07 12:43:39 heh Jan 07 12:43:40 RST38h, hey, HP mini 1000 from $330. looks like my guess on price was high :) Jan 07 12:43:46 se suxxor, then, i guess heh Jan 07 12:44:03 Stslaptop: what's iodine again? Jan 07 12:44:06 W51S works great :) Jan 07 12:44:11 aquatix: DNS tunneling Jan 07 12:44:14 ah right Jan 07 12:44:23 * lcuk shivers Jan 07 12:44:44 afternoon folks of the world Jan 07 12:44:52 hey lcuk Jan 07 12:45:01 lcuk, did you see CES coverage? looks like convertible tablet netbooks are the new thing :) Jan 07 12:45:11 * aquatix is happy; sending mail with claws-mail works for him again Jan 07 12:45:27 somehow that libgnutls26 started working after a reboot Jan 07 12:45:35 johnx: the asus t91? Jan 07 12:45:37 Hello ! Jan 07 12:45:41 hey Khertan_at_work Jan 07 12:46:00 soul9: fair bit of warning, tablets are about as addictive as cocaine Jan 07 12:46:01 :P Jan 07 12:46:04 aquatix, and the other asus thing. plus the there's kojinsha and fujitsu Jan 07 12:46:23 johnx: i really like the looks of that asus htpc-keyboard-thing Jan 07 12:46:29 does sd card have problem on low temperature ? Jan 07 12:46:42 Khertan_at_work: define `low temperature' :) Jan 07 12:46:45 Khertan_at_work: did your SD slot start getting wet? :P Jan 07 12:46:48 hehehe Jan 07 12:46:57 Khertan_at_work: is it frozen stuck? ;) Jan 07 12:46:58 Khertan, it shouldn't. should work fine until it's too cold for your battery to work :P Jan 07 12:47:01 Stskeeps: i bet, i know linux and foss is allready a lot for me :-D Jan 07 12:47:03 i ve just lost all my data contained in it ... and specially source code not saved Jan 07 12:47:12 Ah, lunch time. Jan 07 12:47:15 temp was -19°C Jan 07 12:47:19 ick Jan 07 12:47:43 but internal chip say it was internally in the n810 12°C Jan 07 12:47:51 aquatix, it's certainly a neat idea. wireless HDMI sounds very interesting Jan 07 12:47:55 Khertan_at_work: did you let it get used to higher temps already? Jan 07 12:47:58 johnx: yep Jan 07 12:48:06 johnx: really curious to the specs now :) Jan 07 12:48:54 I'd prefer a beagle-based device I think in a nice solid case w/ a nice light bluetooth keyboard Jan 07 12:49:25 ... snifff ... i ve lost all my work since 3 weeks ... :( Jan 07 12:49:33 If it had more connectivity I'd be more inclined. Jan 07 12:49:42 Khertan_at_work: which is why i learnt to back up :P Jan 07 12:49:50 Khertan_at_work: O_O Jan 07 12:50:00 Khertan, tried some type of FS recovery? Jan 07 12:50:01 stskeeps ... yep but don't make backup on an sdcard ... Jan 07 12:50:13 backup is corrupt Jan 07 12:50:51 and the online backup have been erased by the corrupted one before i notice that it was corrupted Jan 07 12:51:18 My backups are stored on three different machines in varying locations and archived on external hard disk drives and DVD's. Jan 07 12:51:37 the dvd one is 3 weeks ago ... :( Jan 07 12:51:51 Scht. Unlucky :( Jan 07 12:51:57 johnx, ive been thinking that way for a while now :) Jan 07 12:52:12 alterego: raidz on main server, raidz on backup server in different building, with very important files copied to 2-3 different locations Jan 07 12:52:16 :P Jan 07 12:52:22 lcuk, I have since I got my second zaurus :) Jan 07 12:53:09 * lardman wonders how long one battery bar will last playing mp3s Jan 07 12:53:17 Stskeeps: sounds similar to my setup. With out the optical storage :P Jan 07 12:53:18 * johnx 's backup system involves a shell on a friend's machine in another country Jan 07 12:53:27 i still think carrying aorund even a netbook is impractical for what i see most things, but for in house its perfect Jan 07 12:53:29 Heh Jan 07 12:54:01 * lcuk is ashamed to say he hasnt had offsite backup for a while now Jan 07 12:54:06 lcuk, too bad you missed out on the zaurus: http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a267/Legodude522/3deba471.jpg Jan 07 12:54:09 Backup mirroring is essential as far as I'm concerned and keeping an archive on a local storage medium like CD's and my external HDD's is also a must. Just incase I'm without network. Jan 07 12:54:27 Eek, qtopia! -_- Jan 07 12:54:30 >_< Jan 07 12:54:33 O_- Jan 07 12:54:35 johnx, didnt missout entirely, i just couldnt afford one Jan 07 12:54:35 >_< Jan 07 12:54:40 do you some good online storage that work with linux ? Jan 07 12:54:47 alterego, it's ok, it can't hurt you. it's dead Jan 07 12:55:09 Khertan, I've been playing with box.net and fuse boxfs Jan 07 12:55:11 git allows subscription/user based access doesnt it Jan 07 12:55:24 Khertan_at_work: there are loads of places that offer ftp upload etc, personally I'd go for sftp/scp they usually charge something like $5 a month for 5-10G storage. Jan 07 12:55:30 ie i can use garage but only allow a subset of users initially Jan 07 12:55:53 lcuk, you mean restricted read access? Jan 07 12:56:01 alterego, i just post all my data to irc Jan 07 12:56:01 lcuk: the specifics on git on garage isnt that clear yet :P Jan 07 12:56:03 (sadly) Jan 07 12:56:03 yeah johnx Jan 07 12:56:09 lcuk: hah :) Jan 07 12:56:12 lcuk: screens were too small imho Jan 07 12:56:17 5.70 EUro by months ... box.net isn't cheap ! Jan 07 12:56:27 before release whilst the api ischanging its not a grerat thing to get tied up supporting people playing with intermediate versions Jan 07 12:56:42 you can probably always do some kind of Amazon S3 stuff too Jan 07 12:56:43 Khertan_at_work: it's cheaper than the time it's going to take you to get your data up-to-scratch O_O Jan 07 12:56:44 lardman, could say the same about 810 Jan 07 12:56:49 I do :) Jan 07 12:56:58 but it's not too bad Jan 07 12:57:05 larger would be better though Jan 07 12:57:14 Khertan_at_work: 1gb for free though Jan 07 12:57:16 the 810 is perfect as carry along, but i do also like the 12inch pinboard at home Jan 07 12:57:29 would make a perfect mega rss reader ;) Jan 07 12:57:38 Heh, Jan 07 12:57:45 I'm contemplating buying a projector. Jan 07 12:57:46 I could live with an inch larger diagonal screen Jan 07 12:57:53 lcuk, then don't support people. post a warning "subject to change" and then tell people as such. you've got to be cruel to be kind Jan 07 12:58:02 Stskeeps: i need arround 5Gb Jan 07 12:58:18 alterego, ive got an x41 tabletpc, its pen based but giving me lots of ideas :) i waited a while to get my big daddy machine pleased i have it now Jan 07 12:58:22 perhaps just the screen completely covers the front (well except for a little hole for the camera( Jan 07 12:58:45 "big daddy machine"? Is it a desktop workstation? Jan 07 12:58:47 lardman, makes it hard to hold - you would get odd characters Jan 07 12:58:50 Khertan_at_work, huh...wonder if they canceled my free account ... Jan 07 12:58:57 ah that's true Jan 07 12:59:20 alterego, its my only large format linux machine :: i have windows here and it works nicely with mouse, but i wanted a big tablet to test liqbase on it Jan 07 12:59:28 bring back Psion-5 style folding + kb ;) Jan 07 12:59:31 Heh Jan 07 12:59:40 Khertan_at_work, or get 5 accounts? :D Jan 07 12:59:41 touchscreen+linux+liqbase == awesome :) Jan 07 12:59:41 lardman: the 5 was awesome. Jan 07 12:59:48 I could touch type on that puppy .. Jan 07 13:00:47 Which reminds me, I'm supposed to be refurbing a friends 5MX Jan 07 13:00:54 ok, my multitouch - i think ive got a PRACTICAL usage case for it that doesnt involve crappy misclicks:: if the OSK had shift keys in the corner that you press with thumb to activate you can hold it down and press the second letter nice and easily like a real keyboard Jan 07 13:01:39 (sorry for random shifting, it popped back into head after pondering it dropping off last night) Jan 07 13:01:41 lcul : http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_7/index.html?country=fr&lang=fr Jan 07 13:01:45 lcuk : http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_7/index.html?country=fr&lang=fr Jan 07 13:02:36 khertan, i cant read that - its french \@/ plus im at work and vnc isnt good, what am i looking at apart from the archos 7 which is pretty Jan 07 13:02:37 hm, pandora delayed again? Jan 07 13:02:38 looks cool, but no kb and not hackable to install your own firmware Jan 07 13:02:46 Stskeeps: how so? Jan 07 13:02:51 lardman: just reading up on iTT :P Jan 07 13:02:56 it s a 7" device running linux :) Jan 07 13:03:00 i almost got an archos but didnt want to have to hack it to get going Jan 07 13:03:08 I'm a bit pissed off at Nokia/Symbians idea of open sourcing symbian. Jan 07 13:03:10 Khertan_at_work: yeah, but it's also completely locked down and spams you with advertisements to buy stuff :P Jan 07 13:03:10 the important thing is resume in this sentence :) Jan 07 13:03:11 Khertan, ive got 12inches now Jan 07 13:03:19 * lcuk waves it around Jan 07 13:03:23 If you give us a stupid amount of money, you can take a peek at the source O_O Jan 07 13:03:24 alterego: get source for a fee? that's open source :P Jan 07 13:03:37 Not realy. Jan 07 13:03:41 you can do that with GPL too. Jan 07 13:03:50 they added their software UI ontop of linux Jan 07 13:03:55 Really? Jan 07 13:04:03 * alterego hides his ruby-maemo source behind paypay. Jan 07 13:04:05 yep Jan 07 13:04:08 i believe the UI is closed Jan 07 13:04:19 ~paypal Jan 07 13:04:20 [paypal] at http://www.paypalsucks.com and http://www.paypal.com Jan 07 13:04:26 Heh .. Jan 07 13:04:29 its the tivo model :) or something Jan 07 13:04:30 That's not what I meant. Jan 07 13:04:35 the bootloader/flasher is too afaik,. so you can't install unsigned images. Something like that Jan 07 13:05:18 give us the damned nice hardware at a price thats reasonable and we will fill it with good software Jan 07 13:05:56 alterego: its allowed to charge a nominal fee :P Jan 07 13:06:02 * lcuk wants omap3 :'( Jan 07 13:06:10 lcuk: patience ;) Jan 07 13:06:23 Stskeeps, you can have the source to libliqbase for $9999999999999999999999 but only cos its not released yet Jan 07 13:06:28 I'm seriously considering getting a beagle board though, to use as my DVR. Jan 07 13:06:47 i dont wanna mess with hardware any more Jan 07 13:08:28 anyway, bbl Jan 07 13:09:38 * aquatix nowadays only has time for things that Just Work(tm) :/ Jan 07 13:09:49 like maemo and my ubuntu laptop :) Jan 07 13:10:59 alterego, yeah, thinking about a beagle for video playback and a thecus n2100 for storage / mythtv backend Jan 07 13:11:43 johnx: cool, I plan on hooking it up via DVI to my HDTV and also make it stream over the network. So I can watch it on all my connected devices (like tablet) :) Jan 07 13:12:55 hm, a beagle boar is quite nice for doing that indeed Jan 07 13:13:14 *board Jan 07 13:24:33 Morning Jan 07 13:26:52 mornin' andrewfblack Jan 07 13:27:03 good afternoon andrewfblack :) Jan 07 13:28:13 Have you guys seen the video of the Pandora OS onscreen keyboard is so small even the devolper can't type on it lol Jan 07 13:28:33 andrewfblack, yeah, that's standard matchbox keyboard Jan 07 13:28:44 it was designed for a 240x320 display I think Jan 07 13:29:23 I still can't beleave people paided for those things to be shipped in june and now 6 months later no device Jan 07 13:29:45 there were some delays...it really was a rough process Jan 07 13:29:57 BTW, people paid in late september, not june Jan 07 13:30:08 * johnx waits patiently for his pandora :) Jan 07 13:30:22 * lardman is not so sure Jan 07 13:30:36 err, the n810 doesn't have an accelerometer, right? Jan 07 13:30:43 right Jan 07 13:30:46 ahh well I thought first release was supose to be in june Jan 07 13:31:00 I think it was :) Jan 07 13:31:09 first pandora release was supposed to be like june 2007 under a different name :) Jan 07 13:31:11 - supposed to be that is Jan 07 13:31:20 like I said, rough process :) Jan 07 13:32:09 plus I wouldn't put it past a small company like that to make up a fake release date just to keep people interested Jan 07 13:32:27 not saying they did just saying I wouldn't be surprised Jan 07 13:32:49 yeah, that was my thought Jan 07 13:32:59 andrewfblack, yeah, I actually doubt it in this case. I've been following things pretty closely for quite a while Jan 07 13:33:29 in that case they just weren't realistic in their predictions Jan 07 13:33:34 it really is the case that 2-3 core people are trying to design and produce a handheld gadget and it's been pretty rough from a design, production and financing perspective Jan 07 13:34:11 lardman, and that's something they admit to, still there was little way for them to predict some of the problems Jan 07 13:36:31 the LCD one is a red herring though Jan 07 13:37:06 lardman, they never said that it would delay them, just that it might Jan 07 13:37:32 * Khertan_at_work is still looking for an online storage solution .... Jan 07 13:37:48 well the rest of the delays are due to design/manuf issues, which should imo have been factored in Jan 07 13:38:07 lardman, how do you "factor it in" when you've never done it before? Jan 07 13:38:14 or the release dates should have been publicised with a big warning that these are if nothing goes wrong, etc Jan 07 13:38:35 the release dates were always "subject to change" Jan 07 13:38:44 johnx: delay = (int)rand * rand + 10% Jan 07 13:38:57 I'd have thought the companies with whom they deal would have some idea of how long it takes to get a board process up to scratch, etc Jan 07 13:39:07 Khertan_at_work, exactly my point Jan 07 13:39:28 well having wrong release dates is ok if you don't take people money money should not be taken until everything is finished and you are just waiting to have factory build parts Jan 07 13:39:48 andrewfblack, did you preorder? Jan 07 13:39:54 No Jan 07 13:40:12 andrewfblack, then you're worrying about people who knew that going into things Jan 07 13:40:29 Well I'm not worried just talking Jan 07 13:41:01 yeah, I'm just saying the pandora devs never said "we have a firm release date." the answer was always "If you're unsure, wait for the second batch." Jan 07 13:41:25 lardman, not much incentive for the companies they worked with to be realistic when $$$ is on the line for them Jan 07 13:41:31 New Topic You know what i hate about designing themes trying to keep up with 200+ layers in one photoshop file Jan 07 13:42:08 someone know lifedrive.com Jan 07 13:42:36 ? Jan 07 13:42:39 Khertan_at_work, looks like a spam site to me Jan 07 13:42:40 johnx: I know, and it's obviously a pretty difficult thing to do, but I just wish they'd handled their information passing better really Jan 07 13:43:00 lardman, agreed. they're doing it better now Jan 07 13:43:12 holy crap. i had forgotten how i look without beard Jan 07 13:43:36 StsN800, I know the feeling Jan 07 13:44:20 lardman, I think if when they tell "the whole story" after the first units start shipping we'll find out there were a lot more close calls and potential problems behind the scenes than they ever let on Jan 07 13:44:35 jonhx : it s a online storage company Jan 07 13:44:50 jonhx : it s a online storage service Jan 07 13:44:51 :) Jan 07 13:44:57 johnx: perhaps so, but it would be nice to know if they have your money :) Jan 07 13:45:02 Khertan, lifedrive.com is a parked domain Jan 07 13:45:39 ah oups ... sorry wrong url Jan 07 13:45:43 livedrive.com :) Jan 07 13:45:51 lardman, they were likely worried about provoking a full scale panic, and I can't really blame them. Also, it's funny how the people who actually put up their money aren't as worried as the people watching :) Jan 07 13:45:51 BTW I found out what was killing my resources on the maemobox.org server someone who had an account was running like a spam/ad site on it Jan 07 13:46:23 johnx: yeah definitely the panic thing, I put up money, am not worried, just disappointed Jan 07 13:46:46 There was a guy on itT who put his money in then when they gave it back they gave it less becuase of bank fees and exchange rate he is worried Jan 07 13:46:46 not worried as I have the money back and have not been asked to repay yet Jan 07 13:46:46 lardman, ah, I never remember what you decided in the end :) Jan 07 13:47:03 re-order emails are coming :) I already repaid Jan 07 13:47:10 I'm in the UK so no problems with exchange rates Jan 07 13:47:28 andrewfblack, and the re-order price is the same as what you got back Jan 07 13:47:28 what is maemobox.net ? Jan 07 13:47:38 johnx: yeah, that's the only issue, I'm not so sure it's the best bet anymore Jan 07 13:47:52 Khertan_at_work Never head of that site but i don't think the unlimited part will last past beta Jan 07 13:48:17 andrewfblack: yep ... i think too Jan 07 13:48:28 but i looking for something reliable ... Jan 07 13:48:36 it can be not free ... Jan 07 13:48:47 but not expensive too :) Jan 07 13:48:58 lardman, I guess we're in a different situation. you want to work on omap3 specific hardware and I'm happy proto-typing on zaurus and n800 while I wait Jan 07 13:49:00 i found box.net really too expensive Jan 07 13:49:05 Khertan_at_work it was a site i ran that gave people free web storage for maemo related items, but due to over usage by some people its now limited to select projects I choose easy debian being one i have hosted for a long time now. Jan 07 13:49:41 andrewfblack: great choice :) Jan 07 13:50:33 johnx: yep, and I also wonder what else will be round the corner that I could better spend my money on Jan 07 13:51:16 lardman, in my case the pandora has features that I care about that probably won't show up in whatever thing nokia releases next Jan 07 13:51:32 johnx: the gaming stuff? Jan 07 13:51:45 that's of no interest to me whatsoever I must admit Jan 07 13:51:49 lardman, the full power host usb port and 8 hours of battery life Jan 07 13:52:05 8 hours of 100% CPU battery life that is Jan 07 13:52:32 ah, well those would be benefits and useful, but not make or break items Jan 07 13:52:53 I plan to bring my own 3G modem, so the host port is a must Jan 07 13:53:35 I'd prefer to wait for the n900 for that usage case, use something built in Jan 07 13:53:53 I have doubts about what provider will be supported in the US Jan 07 13:54:44 should be able to support several providers Jan 07 13:54:47 3G in the US is so FUBAR that every single provider uses different spectrum Jan 07 13:55:13 ah, well that's more of an issue, though I'd expect Nokia to do a decent job really Jan 07 13:55:22 andrewfblack, few HSPA devices support att and t-mo's 3G spectrum Jan 07 13:58:36 and the answer would be that no nokia phone support 3G on att and t-mo in the US Jan 07 13:58:47 not exactly great precedent ... Jan 07 13:59:50 yeah, fair enough Jan 07 14:00:39 price was another concern, as was shipping date. I am disappointed it didn't make it out before christmas...but then again I don't really blame someone for it Jan 07 14:03:01 1.5hr on one bar, now the dongs are coming Jan 07 14:03:31 the n8x0 battery applet tells horrible lies :P Jan 07 14:03:37 better than the prediction anyway :) Jan 07 14:03:45 of <1hr Jan 07 14:03:47 bad or good kind? Jan 07 14:04:00 hum ... does their is tool to fix this stupid fat fs ? Jan 07 14:04:01 bad dongs, low battery Jan 07 14:04:08 MerEcho theme does not look very brilliant... :( Jan 07 14:04:24 lack of transparent and icon theme Jan 07 14:04:33 Khertan_at_work, look for forensics software or possibly "undelete" Jan 07 14:04:39 Meiz_n810: scrshot kthx Jan 07 14:05:00 Stskeeps: I can't open any apps.. Jan 07 14:05:06 ah Jan 07 14:05:08 well then Jan 07 14:05:17 just guess where the icons were before :P Jan 07 14:05:29 ? Jan 07 14:05:50 you mean copying icon's from maemo? Jan 07 14:06:41 well that's a possibility too :P but the actual buttons would be where the icons are missing i guess Jan 07 14:06:48 like, to click Jan 07 14:07:37 they aren't Jan 07 14:07:42 odd, k Jan 07 14:07:46 thanks for trying Jan 07 14:08:07 i'll modify .Xsession to take scrhot :P Jan 07 14:08:39 Meiz_n810 what you mean lack of Transparent and icon theme? Jan 07 14:08:50 * lardman hopes for usb charging for the n900 Jan 07 14:08:59 as his n810 goes flat Jan 07 14:09:11 any word on the n900? Jan 07 14:09:16 lardman: I hope they also provide a high power solution. Jan 07 14:09:18 Meiz_n810: andrewfblack made the theme so point him in directions of whats not working :) Jan 07 14:09:29 bbl bus Jan 07 14:09:39 andrewfblack task-navigator and statusbar can not be transparent in Mer yet Jan 07 14:09:40 Meiz_n810 what version of MerEcho are you using? Jan 07 14:10:09 Meiz_n810 ok wasn't told that before I can fix that Jan 07 14:10:17 the garage one.. Sts gave me a link Jan 07 14:10:30 but i'll take scrshot now.. Jan 07 14:11:25 X-Fade: well I guess standard chargers will fit too Jan 07 14:11:28 * Khertan_at_work hope for sd running at -16 °C Jan 07 14:13:16 lardman: Not sure, I haven't checked any phones which have usb charging now. Jan 07 14:14:11 lardman & X-Fade: my blackberry charges fine through usb Jan 07 14:14:28 though, it needs some funky USB handshake in order to get enough current Jan 07 14:14:35 crashanddie: Sure, but a normal charger can deliver more mah.. Jan 07 14:14:38 crashanddie: but probably not if it's doing something much Jan 07 14:14:57 I guess you could always go with the double USB connector Jan 07 14:15:08 crashanddie: Which is lame ;) Jan 07 14:15:12 I find the nokia phone chargers take forever to charge the n8x0 as they are low current Jan 07 14:15:14 lame, but it works Jan 07 14:15:23 crashanddie: :) Jan 07 14:15:55 Yeah, they can also make a charger with an usb plug. So it can provide more, but still use the usb plug. Jan 07 14:16:24 indeed Jan 07 14:16:37 I had that for... An mp3 player of some sort, was pretty perfect Jan 07 14:16:51 though the little nokia charger thingie must be pretty small inside too Jan 07 14:17:15 If they really want to be awesome, go like RIM: give a power plug that has all the major connectors and you can swap them round Jan 07 14:17:16 the plug that is Jan 07 14:17:18 lardman: Well, there is a plastic block surrounding it. Jan 07 14:17:47 X-Fade: wel lI'll happily swap that bit of plastic for some more RAM, :) Jan 07 14:18:00 It all has to fit in a package a lot smaller than our N810 is now.. Jan 07 14:18:21 ! Jan 07 14:18:28 was that some classified info? Jan 07 14:18:34 No ;) Jan 07 14:18:45 bbiam, going to find some food Jan 07 14:18:57 please tell us more, like the exact dimensions and what colour it is ;) Jan 07 14:19:06 That was wat both Ari and Peter hinted at at the summit. Jan 07 14:19:41 But then again, they are not the hardware people ;) Jan 07 14:19:48 and they're having the developer program again, right? :D Jan 07 14:20:14 johnx: They are looking into giving some developers early access to hardware. Jan 07 14:20:16 Shit, we've only got the cheap crap coffee now :( Jan 07 14:20:29 johnx: Even before release. Jan 07 14:20:34 :) Jan 07 14:20:44 so do we know for a fact it's going to be n900? Jan 07 14:20:52 crashanddie: No. Jan 07 14:21:03 crashanddie, we know for a fact it won't be called an internet tablet :) Jan 07 14:21:12 crashanddie: We know that it's hardware code is RX-51. Jan 07 14:21:25 Or at least current proto is called that ;) Jan 07 14:23:27 It's not an "Internet Tablet"?!?" Jan 07 14:24:09 Next one isn't called that anymore. Jan 07 14:24:31 But then again, my N95 is called a "Multimedia Computer" :) Jan 07 14:25:47 I think my pentium 166mmx machine was called that too :) Jan 07 14:27:20 It will be fun to see what marketing comes up with for the next iteration. Jan 07 14:27:34 it will be fun to see what they do for the case style Jan 07 14:27:53 and I'm really excited about the software :) Jan 07 14:28:04 mmmm, tomato soup Jan 07 14:28:11 mmm...tomato firmware Jan 07 14:28:53 * lardman wonders how they will make it smaller Jan 07 14:29:40 they have bezels to cut on the n810 Jan 07 14:29:48 and they can make it thinner Jan 07 14:29:56 yep Jan 07 14:30:31 hope that doesn't mean the kb goes Jan 07 14:30:38 I'm sure it won't Jan 07 14:30:51 I'd love to see what the sales numbers looked like after they added it Jan 07 14:31:20 if the n810 didn't sell well they could have kept the n800 in production, but they didn't Jan 07 14:31:28 good point Jan 07 14:31:38 lardman: Wasn't there a hint of hardware keyboard in the code.. Jan 07 14:31:40 ? Jan 07 14:31:54 I don't remember, will have to take another look at it Jan 07 14:32:30 Keyboard is mentioned here: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-commits/2009-January/012184.html Jan 07 14:32:46 good thing I don't have to talk here with my newly acquired tomato-soup-tongue-burn Jan 07 14:32:48 But doesn't mean it has to be a hardware keyboard.. Jan 07 14:33:18 lardman, yeah, that's why I prefer tomato firmware. no tongue burning problems Jan 07 14:33:40 Hmm and what is 'tana'? Jan 07 14:33:41 heh, a kbd that could be both mounted and detached could be neat Jan 07 14:33:47 depends how hot your chips get :) Jan 07 14:34:16 detached and used wirelessly that is Jan 07 14:34:19 StsN801, detachable stuff always sounds like it would be fun, but it adds so much bulk... Jan 07 14:34:24 mm Jan 07 14:34:32 think: bug labs :) Jan 07 14:34:42 htc had magnetic kbd Jan 07 14:34:53 not directly bad idea Jan 07 14:35:03 X-Fade: tv-out Jan 07 14:35:07 from the looks of it Jan 07 14:35:20 anyone seen asus new eee keyboard?=) Jan 07 14:35:45 lardman: Yeah, could be. Jan 07 14:35:48 RST38h, heh, yeah. I posted it here a bit ago. shades of the computers of old, huh? Jan 07 14:37:37 johnx: side screen is kinda new - old ones had an ashtray there =) Jan 07 14:37:53 it's even made to be used with a TV Jan 07 14:38:17 in every way this is the old idea redone with modern tech Jan 07 14:38:25 well, if you call nowadays hdmi equipped lcd panels tvs... Jan 07 14:38:42 usually computer monitors are just DVI still, right? Jan 07 14:39:03 hdmi and dmi are the same thing Jan 07 14:39:12 dvi Jan 07 14:39:39 eh, whatever. it's still designed to be used with a TV Jan 07 14:40:02 they said so themselves AFAIK. it's supposed to be an htpc Jan 07 14:40:36 hm, htpc rx-51.. Jan 07 14:40:48 certainly power saving Jan 07 14:40:54 yeah, a pandora will fill that spot nicely too :) Jan 07 14:40:59 anything omap3 :) Jan 07 14:41:30 ah pandora fills so many different slots right now... Jan 07 14:41:36 gf started saying i should get used to not having flatrate power Jan 07 14:41:55 I mean imaginary hw is always the greatest one :) Jan 07 14:42:36 sts: there is such thing as flatrate power? Jan 07 14:43:30 RST38h, dorm living? :) Jan 07 14:43:43 in the wide perspective no, but i pay the same for power,heat,water, through dorm rent Jan 07 14:44:09 +each month Jan 07 14:44:12 RST38h, I'm mainly extrapolating from what the beagleboard is already capable of, so not exactly imaginary Jan 07 14:44:15 ah Jan 07 14:44:36 johnx: it is a pcb with wires. Jan 07 14:45:15 as a pcb with wires, it is only capable of being a dev platform for hackers Jan 07 14:45:29 RST38h, it decodes video and has tv-out. that's most of an htpc right there Jan 07 14:46:05 my desktop's motherboard is a "PCB with wires." I stuck it in a case and now I have a computer Jan 07 14:52:14 johnx: will beagle decode 1280x768 divx or xvid video flawlessly? Jan 07 14:52:14 ss Jan 07 14:52:30 RST38h, yeah, think so. let me find the link Jan 07 14:52:58 (just asking because my 2.4ghz pentium4 cant) Jan 07 14:53:25 hmm, your pc should be able to decode that in real time Jan 07 14:53:27 really? that's kinda sad. only gets my 1.8GHz A64 going up to 50% CPU usage Jan 07 14:53:27 depends on the video card Jan 07 14:53:47 yeah, the 2,4 ghz shouldn't have problems with that Jan 07 14:53:48 DVI != HDMi Jan 07 14:54:50 johnx: well, it is definitely not fast enough Jan 07 14:55:14 is it one of the older P4s? Jan 07 14:55:19 otoh, pentium4 is really a failure... Jan 07 14:55:23 yes Jan 07 14:55:26 no argument there Jan 07 14:55:32 dunno which one Jan 07 14:55:52 but I doubt omap3 can do this either Jan 07 14:56:24 it has hw acceleration Jan 07 14:56:34 built into the DSP, so might be possible Jan 07 14:56:40 in fact I'd have thought it would be Jan 07 14:56:44 RST38h, people on the list are talking about 1080p :) Jan 07 14:56:51 720p was demoed on CPU only Jan 07 14:57:19 am still shocked your p4 can't decode it though Jan 07 14:57:44 lardman, if it's one of the oldest P4s I can believe it. they are thoroughly not fast Jan 07 14:57:56 unbelievably cool :) Jan 07 14:58:09 I've got a P4 3GHz here in my work pc Jan 07 14:58:31 can we expect a mythtv port to n9x0 then?:) Jan 07 14:59:08 * Khertan_at_work cry is source file lost on his sd card ..... snifffff Jan 07 15:00:16 RST38h, have one for the n8x0 I believe. frontend only though Jan 07 15:01:48 RST38h: what are you running your xvid decoder on? Jan 07 15:02:01 what platform and which codec are you using? Jan 07 15:02:33 lardman: asus digimatrix Jan 07 15:02:44 Linux? Jan 07 15:02:49 lardman: ffdshow Jan 07 15:02:50 RST38h, http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/2692388640/ Jan 07 15:02:56 no, xp media center Jan 07 15:03:01 h.264 no less :) Jan 07 15:03:45 * crashanddie is hoping to hear good news at macworld SF about either new mac pros or new iMac Jan 07 15:03:51 quad core iMac would be awesome Jan 07 15:03:53 crashanddie, neither Jan 07 15:03:57 johnx: I am here from a cell phone, have mercy Jan 07 15:04:31 I want a proper desktop, and if it could be a mac, would be perfect... Jan 07 15:05:14 I'd love to see a quad core iMac with 12+ gig of RAM and at least a terrabyte of storage... Good enough to run a couple of VMs from and have some space to breathe Jan 07 15:05:16 RST38h, It's the "Big Buck Bunny" video in 720P being shown running from a beagleboard at some conference Jan 07 15:05:33 crashanddie, all they announced was iLife, iWork and a new 17" macbook pro Jan 07 15:05:40 yeah but shush Jan 07 15:05:44 crashanddie: announce was already done Jan 07 15:05:49 it ain't over yet Jan 07 15:05:55 crashanddie: just a 17" macbook Jan 07 15:06:06 I know, I can go to macrumors.com as well, thanks Jan 07 15:06:18 you never know, they may be coming back Jan 07 15:06:50 Actually the NEC all-in-one desktops look nice. very nice and portable Jan 07 15:07:12 woo, work n800 is charging! Jan 07 15:07:24 lots of these on the market - asus, hp, sony... Jan 07 15:07:34 RST38h: looks cool, the wonders of windows, perhaps try tweaking your ffshow settings? Jan 07 15:07:40 yeah the specs are shite Jan 07 15:08:15 meh. I do my big builds on servers on other continents... Jan 07 15:08:29 * lardman needs to buy a new work PC, quad core sounds good Jan 07 15:08:59 * johnx wants a new PC...but doesn't really need one. a dual core mini-itx system sounds nice though Jan 07 15:09:19 * lardman wants CUDA Jan 07 15:09:33 lardman: already did, no luck Jan 07 15:09:33 not that I need a new PC for that Jan 07 15:09:47 RST38h: hmm, no idea then, blame Windows perhaps ;) Jan 07 15:09:52 lardman: not buying another asus machine ever again Jan 07 15:10:36 lardman: chinese engineering at its finest Jan 07 15:11:03 oh Jan 07 15:11:16 fair enough, /me files that warning for future reference Jan 07 15:11:42 ahaha...the idea of trying to avoid things made in China is hilarious Jan 07 15:11:57 Hi, I have a graphic bug with latest upgrades of my Maemo Diablo : I have not the load icon content when I launch an application, just "Foo is loading..." Jan 07 15:11:58 johnx: that is not what I meant Jan 07 15:12:09 How can I fix it? Jan 07 15:12:37 johnx: poor digimatrix problem is that it isDESIGNED in china Jan 07 15:13:10 so, it is made of cheap, substandard parts, tied with string Jan 07 15:13:30 dont believe me? google for the specs. Jan 07 15:13:32 RST38h, in contrast to the American P4 which was shit slow *and* expensive Jan 07 15:14:01 johnx: actually, p4 is a good example of american engineering fallacies Jan 07 15:14:24 RST38h, yeah, coasting when you reach the top Jan 07 15:14:31 johnx: like, inability to listen to criticism for example ;) Jan 07 15:15:00 Zic, what do you mean about not having "load icon content." I don't quite understand Jan 07 15:16:35 johnx: the animated load icon when you are launching an application, at the left corner of the displayed notification "FooBar is loading..." Jan 07 15:18:48 does the icon in question appear once the app is loaded? Jan 07 15:19:13 oh in the message, hmm, I don't rememeber that Jan 07 15:21:56 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2615 Jan 07 15:22:00 look the last comment Jan 07 15:22:20 fremantle will not use jffs2 Jan 07 15:22:21 ? Jan 07 15:22:49 so no jffs2 mean ssd in the next device ? Jan 07 15:22:49 ubifs Jan 07 15:23:02 new flash fs Jan 07 15:23:31 ubifs was mainly done for ssd right ? Jan 07 15:23:46 it's for raw NAND, IIRC Jan 07 15:23:56 heh, always good when your universitys forum nokia contact comes to offer assistance/nokia devices if i need any Jan 07 15:25:31 hot sauce. you need two n900s pronto Jan 07 15:25:48 hehe Jan 07 15:26:08 he said that too, early access:P Jan 07 15:26:37 your uni has a nokia rep? Jan 07 15:26:40 why's that? Jan 07 15:27:45 we do a lot of pervasive computing stuff and my former boss is the contact here Jan 07 15:28:11 cool :) Jan 07 15:28:31 gets devices if we need them for research/classes/study group/etc Jan 07 15:28:54 * lardman works in the wrong field :) Jan 07 15:29:22 "Yes, we need 180 n96's for a study group... Err, length of lease? Indefinite" Jan 07 15:37:20 johnx, scary fact - skype x86 looks correct in mer Jan 07 15:37:33 wait, huh? Jan 07 15:37:56 they did their own emulation of the hildonized look? Jan 07 15:38:38 nah Jan 07 15:38:38 just ran in it Jan 07 15:44:09 * qwerty12 welcomes the effin slow bugzilla Jan 07 15:54:20 hi Jan 07 15:55:27 hi woglinde Jan 07 15:55:42 he florian you did some work on gpe Jan 07 15:56:02 woglinde: yes a little bit Jan 07 16:00:46 Stskeeps, is there something up with repository.mer.tspre.org ? Jan 07 16:01:55 nm, didn't resolve once, but now it does O_o Jan 07 16:02:54 k Jan 07 16:13:31 good morning Jan 07 16:15:34 mornin' r2d2rogers :) Jan 07 16:16:00 Hrm, libtool is still missing despite me explicitly specifying it as a build-depend. I'll just shove it in the package. Jan 07 16:16:05 it's always fun to say that in a multi timezone channel ;) Jan 07 16:16:47 I think I'm wishing for an alternative to sapwood.... I'd like to get past that issue... Jan 07 16:17:23 r2d2rogers, not sapwood related, but you've heard of ugt, right? :) Jan 07 16:17:33 nosir Jan 07 16:18:25 Nice Jan 07 16:18:31 * r2d2rogers likes google Jan 07 16:19:09 ~ugt Jan 07 16:19:10 rumour has it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Jan 07 16:19:28 Freenode has their own freenode Standard Time... Jan 07 16:19:31 yup, found the URL mentioned Jan 07 16:21:25 Stskeeps, actually, speaking of sapwood, do you have a copy of the sapwood .deb that worked on my zaurus? Jan 07 16:22:00 somewhre Jan 07 16:22:43 in meeting atm Jan 07 16:22:54 no rush Jan 07 16:22:56 look at logs maybe Jan 07 16:23:02 good idea :) Jan 07 16:23:13 prolly on bsd.tspre.org Jan 07 16:23:25 ah, yeah, thanks Jan 07 16:25:18 * r2d2rogers makes .desktop files to use backgrounds on Mer Jan 07 16:30:33 is Fremantle going to be backwards compatible with the n8x0 ? Jan 07 16:30:44 Not officially Jan 07 16:30:50 hence:... Jan 07 16:30:51 ~mer Jan 07 16:30:52 somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint Jan 07 16:31:03 aren't I a typing whore? Jan 07 16:31:24 Don't know about the typing... but you sure are a w... Jan 07 16:31:35 Anyway Jan 07 16:31:37 thanks for that Jan 07 16:31:42 :) Jan 07 16:34:43 Bye Jan 07 16:35:05 hi crashanddie Jan 07 16:35:18 pfff 100 Euros by year the online backup ... i ll bougth an other nas ... it s cheaper ! Jan 07 16:35:19 bye Jan 07 16:35:25 bye jhertan Jan 07 16:35:28 hm to late Jan 07 16:35:50 online backups is straid going to all secret services Jan 07 16:36:28 GAN800, well, there's your answer about SDHC and the 2TB limit :/ Jan 07 16:36:55 Khertan: is there any online backup services that are reasonable? Jan 07 16:37:28 i.e. what do you get for the 100 euros? Jan 07 16:38:11 * qwerty12 couldn't stand an online backup service, my upload speed isn't brilliantly great anyway. Jan 07 16:38:28 * crashanddie prepares for a shitstorm after his last bug comment Jan 07 16:38:44 I quite like Carbonite Jan 07 16:38:47 qwerty12: my hosting provider didn't provide backup, so I think I'll buy the service elsewhere. Jan 07 16:39:02 * qwerty12 expects more on my comment. You agree with Nokia so... Jan 07 16:39:11 Veggen, ah Jan 07 16:40:12 I'm on a tidying-my-flat-mission. That includes getting rid of boxes that needs to be always on :) Jan 07 16:40:42 I recommend backing up to floppy disks. :P Jan 07 16:41:10 qwerty12: you the faheem bloke? Jan 07 16:41:13 crashanddie, yes Jan 07 16:41:21 Veggen, replace them with one small box that needs to be always on :) Jan 07 16:41:39 johnx: doable. Jan 07 16:42:07 but I ended up getting a virtualized server for most of my needs. Jan 07 16:42:31 anything I'm gonna have always on at home is gonna have no moving parts. Jan 07 16:42:51 an interesting goal :) Jan 07 16:43:12 could fill a thecus n2100 with a couple SSDs and take the fan out Jan 07 16:43:57 johnx: a backup-server doesn't necessarily have to be always on, my asterisk box, I think don't need much diskspace and can be fanless too. Jan 07 16:44:22 the question is does a hard disk count as a "moving part"? Jan 07 16:44:25 johnx: and everything else at home can be turned off after my outsourcing-mission :) Jan 07 16:44:30 johnx: yup. Jan 07 16:44:49 what are you doing for mass file storage? Jan 07 16:45:12 I'm gonna have no such things that need to be on. Jan 07 16:45:18 unless I use it. Jan 07 16:46:04 so if you want files from one machine on the other you'll need to walk around and turn both on? Jan 07 16:47:12 john: oh, the goal isn't necessarily to never have them on, it's to be able to turn them off at night, and when I go on vacation. Jan 07 16:48:18 fair enough I guess, I'm just trying to reduce the power usage of my always on machines Jan 07 16:48:46 it's not as much power usage as noise and mess I'm trying to reduce :) Jan 07 16:49:04 I can totally appreciate that :) Jan 07 17:00:15 just buy one big server and have loads of VMs on them Jan 07 17:00:16 :P Jan 07 17:00:39 put it in the shed, deadlock on the door, done Jan 07 17:02:36 Anyone happen to know the easiest way I can compile an xpidl binary? I downloaded the mozilla sources last time, a pita... Jan 07 17:03:22 xpi ? Firefox extension? Jan 07 17:03:46 I think *xpidl* is an compiler of some sort for extensions Jan 07 17:04:13 Oh, not a compiler: "xpidl is a tool for generating XPCOM interface information" Jan 07 17:05:33 it's based off libIDL... What could go wrong?/How hard can it be? Jan 07 17:06:43 According to the wiki page, I can build it after "./configuring" the mozilla source and running make -C on a few dirs but that didn't go well. Fuck it, there's probably a binary in the xulrunner distributed with fennec Jan 07 17:30:39 Figured it out, to save time for any other people: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/xpidl Jan 07 17:41:24 anyone tried fennec on Mer? Jan 07 17:42:02 nope Jan 07 17:42:09 I'll probably try Tear first Jan 07 17:42:42 cool, I wasn't aware of tear Jan 07 17:43:34 it's really quite impressive. once support for downloading files is in I won't miss microb at all Jan 07 17:43:43 nice Jan 07 17:46:11 I'm amused that the unthemed hildon is more useable... Jan 07 17:46:20 WRT the sapwood bug Jan 07 17:46:34 I moved the .so file for sapwood and I can use the dropdowns better Jan 07 17:46:50 advanced back light has sliders now Jan 07 17:47:00 yeah, but lots of things that want to draw icons just won't work I think Jan 07 17:47:48 I might be willing to send my zaurus off to anyone who wants to look at the problem Jan 07 17:48:51 http://khertan.net/index.php/post/2009/01/07/Lost-3-week-of-work-...6 Jan 07 17:49:13 johnx: what is the problem ? Jan 07 17:49:27 sapwood bug on armv5te processors Jan 07 17:50:15 so this is software ... Jan 07 17:50:27 yeah, but hardware dependent it seems Jan 07 17:51:00 which rom used ? Jan 07 17:51:04 also, about the sd card thing...I wonder if it was the sd card or other electronic component not behaving correctly in the cold... Jan 07 17:51:08 Khertan, Mer :) Jan 07 17:51:27 héhé ... lol Jan 07 17:51:34 ubuntu/mer, same as the one that's running on the n8x0 next to it Jan 07 17:51:51 I see the same bug on a 770 Jan 07 17:52:02 ouch it s snowing again Jan 07 17:52:22 smae bug ? sapwood ? or sdcard ? Jan 07 17:52:29 r2d2rogers, though actually you're getting different behavior it seems. it actually works on the zaurus for the most part after stskeeps modification to sapwood Jan 07 17:52:30 sprry sapwood Jan 07 17:52:40 ah nevermind Jan 07 17:53:00 but it's almost certainly related somehow Jan 07 17:53:58 anyone compiling kernels ever gotten this message? Jan 07 17:53:59 undefined reference to `otg_set_transceiver' Jan 07 17:54:27 definitely compiling with otg support Jan 07 17:54:49 only header file with otg_set_transceiver is otg.h Jan 07 17:55:13 and otg.c is definitely getting compiled Jan 07 17:55:54 ok first time to put maemo mapper to actual real life use Jan 07 17:55:57 i'm impressed hehe :> Jan 07 17:56:34 * Khertan_n810_4 is trying to charge his n810 cpu to keep his tablet at a temp superior to zero Jan 07 17:58:48 Khertan_n810_4, don't know if that will be enough to keep everything inside the case warmer than freezing... Jan 07 17:59:27 btw, is there a way to change the color of the "route" in mapper? Jan 07 17:59:38 cause the route is indicated in green, and i have to follow a really long blue road :| Jan 07 17:59:52 johnx: i see that Jan 07 18:00:14 bakarat, maybe you should go somewhere else...maybe someplace on a red road? Jan 07 18:00:22 * johnx heads to bed Jan 07 18:00:31 johnx, ye, i'll ask my customer to move :p Jan 07 18:01:55 bakarat, have you by any chance actually opened the settings of maemo-mapper? Jan 07 18:02:19 qwerty12, hmm, i checked quickly but was on the road at the time hehe :D Jan 07 18:02:23 qwerty12, my bad, must have overlooked it Jan 07 18:02:40 :) Jan 07 18:13:33 there was a suggestion to build a lightweight http server for the nokia that could serve up the tiles maemo mapper needs and calculate routes etc, to run alongside maemo mapper (optionally) Jan 07 18:13:39 does anyone know if anyone is working on that? :> Jan 07 18:13:58 or if it is even feasible? (not sure if nokia n810 is powerful enough?) Jan 07 18:19:54 Khertan_n810: On est dans une crise a la japonaise... Et ca je peux pas le saké Jan 07 18:21:58 bakarat: don't see the point of generating the tiles for maemo mapper in html format, and then having an html interpreter to show them Jan 07 18:22:24 crashanddie, well the benefit of serving it up as http is so maemo mapper itself does not need to be altered Jan 07 18:22:36 then you can have a more modular system Jan 07 18:24:56 eh? Jan 07 18:25:02 Maemo doesn't need to be altered? Jan 07 18:25:13 s/Maemo/mapper/ Jan 07 18:25:13 crashanddie meant: mapper doesn't need to be altered? Jan 07 18:25:32 don't understand what you mean by that Jan 07 18:28:30 doesn anyone know why I get 'make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.18-6.686/build: No such file or directory. Stop' when trying to compile in scratchbox? Jan 07 18:28:56 Compiling a module? Jan 07 18:29:01 yes Jan 07 18:29:12 Point it to the diablo kernel sources Jan 07 18:29:26 actually it's the one you put up a while ago, rtl8187 Jan 07 18:29:36 I'm trying to compile for bora Jan 07 18:29:48 Hmm, I haven't actually touched those in a while :/ Jan 07 18:29:55 I know lol Jan 07 18:31:22 I'm actually really lazy, what I do is apt-get source kernel-source-diablo (I don't know the bora equivalent sorry) and go into it and do make nokia_2420_defconfig and then just plain make and I then just make symlinks to the compiled kernel source wherever the module is looking for the sources Jan 07 18:32:25 You can just edit the Makefiles manually but it's a bit tedious once to start to compile more than one module or if there are many Makefiles Jan 07 18:32:39 I was just about to say that Jan 07 18:33:17 http://curiousexpeditions.org/?p=78 Jan 07 18:33:18 Enjoy Jan 07 18:34:25 does 'mach-omap1' sound right for the kernel headers? Jan 07 18:34:49 no, you have got omap2 Jan 07 18:37:25 are you sure? my 770 says 2.6.16.27-omap1 Jan 07 18:38:02 ah, you're using an hacker edition, I have no idea regarding them then :/ Jan 07 18:39:30 ah crap Jan 07 18:39:51 well thanks, I'll keep messing around and see what happens Jan 07 18:40:35 ah, it is 770...omap1 it is then Jan 07 19:10:30 IT WORKS AGAIN! Jan 07 19:10:44 * lcuk sprays you all Jan 07 19:11:02 IT = ? :) Jan 07 19:11:47 my water jet thingy on my car Jan 07 19:12:06 hah :D Jan 07 19:12:19 meeting in one hour? Jan 07 19:15:00 Yep. Jan 07 19:15:27 by eck X-Fade ello, did you have a good xmas break? Jan 07 19:16:22 Hi Gary. Sure, I had a nice time. Jan 07 19:17:14 did santa claus bring you anything nice? Jan 07 19:17:14 Although the maemo.org mail breaking puzzled me for a while.. Jan 07 19:17:30 we just put it down to you being afk - its the usual thing Jan 07 19:17:46 A Hurricane 550 heli ;) Jan 07 19:18:18 NICE! have you had a chance to fly it yet, or do you have to wait a few months Jan 07 19:18:36 No, it was SpamAssassin that had a socket which died.. (spamd) Jan 07 19:19:01 I have gotten a pair of gloves with the tips of the fingers cut off ;) Jan 07 19:19:14 So I can fly at near 0 temperatures ;) Jan 07 19:19:15 heh snow flying will be extra cool Jan 07 19:19:31 Nah, high power and snow doesn't mix.. Jan 07 19:19:56 24v 3300mah can give nice fireworks.. Jan 07 19:19:58 so is it in kit form? Jan 07 19:20:05 yeah, so dont crash it ;) Jan 07 19:20:34 No I didn't get the kit, got it second hand for a great price. Jan 07 19:21:08 yeah, loads of copters just sit there, people get scared of crashing them Jan 07 19:21:34 But I have flown it about 15 times now, really a monster. Jan 07 19:21:38 * lcuk hasnt fired his up since rebuilding after an accident Jan 07 19:21:59 120cm blade disk.. Jan 07 19:22:03 plus i got this little nokia thing Jan 07 19:22:36 I plan to use my N95 as cam for it :) Jan 07 19:22:43 yeah, well you need that to allow decent 3d control - im surprised a little though, thats v close to petrol size Jan 07 19:22:52 :D w00t Jan 07 19:23:22 if you get hold of a prototype you could demo the raw power of the omap3 at the next summit Jan 07 19:23:45 Heh, well I'm sure I won't have it in my hands before you guys do :) Jan 07 19:24:03 when i was flying mine i thought about making some sort of computer assisted stability unit Jan 07 19:24:31 have you flown a real copter? Jan 07 19:24:34 Well, you can use a 3-axis gyro and add some cool logic to control it.. Jan 07 19:24:37 * lcuk would love to Jan 07 19:24:59 No, I haven't. Would love it too, but that is very costly.. Jan 07 19:25:11 at present you are the bio "cool logic unit" :D Jan 07 19:25:31 Yeah, although that is cool too. Jan 07 19:25:32 yeah, for anything more than a taster it gets silly Jan 07 19:26:08 have you got more RC units then? Jan 07 19:26:20 and what does mrs x-fade think of them Jan 07 19:26:47 lcuk: I bought here a dog ;) So I have some credits left.. Jan 07 19:26:56 *her Jan 07 19:27:29 a radio controlled dog? Jan 07 19:27:35 :D Jan 07 19:28:01 No a real one.. Jan 07 19:28:25 my son got one of these flapping wing RC units from relatives this year, only a toy but impressive in scale and design - there was a time they said we couldnt get beating wing RC units due to weight Jan 07 19:29:35 The Robinson R22 seems to be the most affordable heli for real flights. _only_ 240k usd ;) Jan 07 19:29:52 heh Jan 07 19:30:14 lcuk: Yeah, was at an indoor fly-in this weekend. Somebody brought a bird like rc unit there too. Jan 07 19:30:18 Pretty fun. Jan 07 19:30:30 http://www.robinsonheli.com/pdf_files/r22_pricelist_july_2008.pdf ;) Jan 07 19:31:16 hi Jan 07 19:31:49 heh, thats a fully encapsulated one, you can get them smaller with contra rotating Jan 07 19:32:19 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LdQwTOef4_g&NR=1 Jan 07 19:34:13 Yeah, that thing can chop your head off easily ;) Jan 07 19:34:32 they aren't called choppers for nothing ;) Jan 07 19:41:40 ~seen texrat Jan 07 19:41:44 r2d2rogers: i haven't seen 'texrat' Jan 07 19:42:02 don't think he goes on irc.. Jan 07 19:42:15 Haven't seen him here.. Jan 07 19:42:19 cool Jan 07 19:42:46 just trying to think of where I might contact him... I'm not good at waiting patiently some times ;0) Jan 07 19:42:55 pm Jan 07 19:43:11 did,, after email day before yesterday Jan 07 19:55:12 moo all Jan 07 19:55:18 moo Jan 07 19:56:40 X-Fade: 1232 UTC today Jan 07 19:57:07 Great news. What are you doing here then :) Jan 07 19:57:42 X-Fade: watching a Spider-man cartoon with the toddler before bed Jan 07 19:57:59 Jaffa: Don't feel obligated to hang around here.. really. Jan 07 20:01:12 -> #maemo-meeting Jan 07 20:07:31 any working optional smb browser for maemo Jan 07 20:07:33 ? Jan 07 20:13:45 RST38h: maemo-community mailing list is a great place to make suggestions on the site desig Jan 07 20:14:15 dneary: I already made suggestions from the very beginning of this discussion. Have given up by now. Jan 07 20:14:46 dneary: The mockup is basically not going to work because in reality the amount of data that goes into 4 pictured equal-sized boxes is vastly different Jan 07 20:15:33 dneary: So, some of these boxes (Documentation and Reference) will be small (1/4 of browser window) scrolling windows made up of dozens of lines. Others will only contain 4-5 entries Jan 07 20:16:31 dneary: I suggested a different, much simpler mockup before, that allows for much easier expansion (although not endless, of course). There is a link to my mockup from appropriate bug trackers in bugzilla Jan 07 20:17:25 RST38h: Please don't give up - I have solicited feedback on the various drafts & designs & not gotten much Jan 07 20:17:42 dneary: Right now, I do not believe that anyone will listen, sorry Jan 07 20:18:08 I don't want to get showered with criticism when the page goes live and have you say "told you so" - if you have changes to suggest, please suggest them Jan 07 20:18:31 dneary: As I said, the current mockup in that Wiki page is unworkable Jan 07 20:18:34 But if you don't believe that, then don't expect anyone to listen when it's gone live & you complain either Jan 07 20:18:50 dneary: It does not take into account the amount of links that will have to go into each of those windows Jan 07 20:18:52 Why? What's wrong with it? What's missing? What is there that shouldn't be.? Jan 07 20:19:15 dneary: See my comments above (I said what is wrong twice) Jan 07 20:19:53 What links should be on the page that aren't there now? Jan 07 20:20:11 Because what's there is what will be on the main site if you don't suggest otherwise Jan 07 20:20:23 mmm...ok, one more time Jan 07 20:20:32 And - sorry to say this - but I'm in a meeting at the same time, the mailing list is really the best place for this discussion Jan 07 20:21:09 Sorry, I will Jan 07 20:21:18 Perhaps you could give me the bug number for your simpler extensible mock-up also, please? Jan 07 20:21:25 Yes, a moment Jan 07 20:21:30 thanks Jan 07 20:23:16 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3972 Jan 07 20:24:02 Ok, I will now try to explain one more time what is wrong with the current proposal. I will do it interactively because otherwise it does not seem to work Jan 07 20:25:00 Please, refer to this mockup: https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Development_wireframe.png - do you see 4 square windows at the middle? Jan 07 20:27:56 hi everyone Jan 07 20:28:23 hi anidel Jan 07 20:28:35 is the meeting still on ? Jan 07 20:28:40 hi qwerty Jan 07 20:28:42 yep Jan 07 20:28:51 ok joining Jan 07 20:31:23 Oh, well, I guess it wasn't worth it. Jan 07 20:51:01 do any of the other browsers people are working on run ajax any faster then standard one? Jan 07 21:05:43 Andrew: You probably want a WebKit based browser Jan 07 21:06:02 There is Tear and another project that runs WebKit engine inside MicroB Jan 07 21:07:31 * qwerty12_N800 prefers browser-ui one but can't wait for Tear to be a bit more stable so I can tell browser-ui & browserd to fuck off Jan 07 21:09:16 Yeesh, bug #943 kind of exploded Jan 07 21:10:21 Rotation one is the one that is fucking me right off atm Jan 07 21:10:57 Yeah, there must be a better way to fix this. Jan 07 21:11:01 qwerty12_N800, well, did you really expect any other answer? Jan 07 21:11:09 GeneralAntilles, yes. Jan 07 21:11:14 Hehe Jan 07 21:11:31 Maybe we can talk with kontori about it? Jan 07 21:11:31 Yeah, Nokia's new found direction would certainly make it feel like it should've been the opposite Jan 07 21:11:42 But we've still got a lot of the old ways left to overcome Jan 07 21:11:57 Things will be better with the Fremantle -> Harmattan transition, I'm sure. Jan 07 21:12:05 GeneralAntilles: I'm sure it will be better with Fremantle. But in the meanwhile we are stuck. And it seems like a long way off. Jan 07 21:12:17 But we're infinitely more agile than Nokia is and it's hard to keep it in perspective. Jan 07 21:12:39 Like I said, I do think it's unfair to ask Nokia for new features but it's bollocks imo when the feature has already been implemented by the community properly Jan 07 21:12:44 milhouse, s/Freemantle/Fremantle/g :P Jan 07 21:13:06 qwerty12_N800, well, they workflow isn't set up to be able to handle small enhancements like that. Jan 07 21:13:22 qwerty12_N800: There is a lot of certification etc going on before something is released. Jan 07 21:13:25 Despite the fact that the patches have been tested extensively, and despite the fact that they've proven to be perfectly stable Jan 07 21:13:39 Nokia will still need to do their own testing, and a lot more work besides just code integration. Jan 07 21:13:44 But still, I really think we should be able to get this in. Jan 07 21:13:59 X-Fade, sadly, all that work for certification actually means zero in the real world. Jan 07 21:14:06 Since Nokia's testing methods, apparently, suck. Jan 07 21:14:16 X-Fade: Rotation patches will not affect any test results when not used Jan 07 21:14:34 GeneralAntilles: But people like adobe etc need to sign off on it too. Jan 07 21:14:34 X-Fade: So reviewing them, rolling them in, and releasing with the next update is a no brainer Jan 07 21:14:36 GeneralAntilles, Fair enough, I'm looking at it at face value (or rather the time it takes to run patch) :) Jan 07 21:14:41 It is just very complicated. Jan 07 21:15:11 Too complicated atm, let's hope that gets easier.. Jan 07 21:15:39 Or if we could just put it in Extras without breaking, it would be ok too. Jan 07 21:15:53 But that doesn't seem possible atm either. Jan 07 21:16:08 It would be a nightmare, jott has the right idea with a separate repo Jan 07 21:17:06 (yes, i am pro extras but there are times when separate repos work out best all-round) Jan 07 21:17:58 I still think a community meta package is the way to go. Jan 07 21:19:33 X-Fade, yeah, I think that's a good direction Jan 07 21:19:48 Most of those resources are being put in Mer's more ambitious direction, though. Jan 07 21:19:52 tz1 messed things up though by uploading bluez-utils-test into extras, uploading xomap & kernel-diablo-flasher kinda makes me shudder :/ Jan 07 21:21:11 qwerty12_N800: 'firmware' repos and app repos can be a different thing ;) Jan 07 21:21:18 That sounds pretty sane.. Jan 07 21:22:05 How does Ubuntu handle patched up kernels and upgrades? Jan 07 21:22:23 'Provides' ? Jan 07 21:22:25 It'd work for me, but it's probably easier to upload rotation suuprt to extras when nokia stop providing updates Jan 07 21:22:39 s/suuprt/support/ Jan 07 21:22:40 qwerty12_N800 meant: It'd work for me, but it's probably easier to upload rotation support to extras when nokia stop providing updates Jan 07 21:23:56 GeneralAntilles, compiling your own kernel the ubuntu way is a very simple process Jan 07 21:29:49 Grackle, I'm not talking compiling. Jan 07 21:30:30 If Ubuntu ships an updated kernel, and you're using a patched kernel, how is the upgrade handled? (Assuming this is a real use-case, my experience with desktop Linux is extremely limited) Jan 07 21:31:56 Oh, I'm not sure. You can lock your custom kernel packages if you don't want something else to be installed in their place, but that may not be necessary. Jan 07 21:32:08 It gets installed but it just adds an option to boot with the new kernel to the bootloader Jan 07 21:32:33 Ah, OK. Jan 07 21:33:20 even normal upgrades result in more than one kernel choice to boot Jan 07 21:37:24 Mmm . . . food Jan 07 21:37:50 cofee (!) Jan 07 21:38:13 evening Jan 07 21:38:35 morning :) Jan 07 21:41:06 GeneralAntilles: is a meeting log up yet? Jan 07 21:41:24 Harass X-Fade Jan 07 21:41:29 hello, Stskeeps :) Jan 07 21:41:32 It's fun AND productive. :P Jan 07 21:41:54 X-Fade: log up yet? ;) (pretty please) Jan 07 21:45:45 GeneralAntilles: #943 has gone mad, seemingly starting with Eero in #19 saying "offline's useful as some processes constantly ping the network" [my response would be "fix that brokenness"] Jan 07 21:46:34 The RSS reader is among those b0rken processes, even in offline mode >_< Jan 07 21:46:36 'offline mode' makes sense, though Jan 07 21:46:50 as in, it should not attempt network contact when 'offline' Jan 07 21:46:55 Jaffa, which is clearly out of spec Jan 07 21:48:00 The concept of an always on device, with no standby, and complex processes managing it's wifi connectivity automatically - for best battery usage and user experience - is nice in theory... Jan 07 21:48:04 * RST38h now starts seriously wondering what 943 is Jan 07 21:48:18 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=943 - quick standby mode Jan 07 21:48:43 Jaffa, but in practice often results in less than optimal standby time. ;) Jan 07 21:48:45 Yea, brought it up Jan 07 21:48:54 GeneralAntilles: aye Jan 07 21:50:13 * RST38h scratches his head: isn't this addable via a third party app? Jan 07 21:50:32 powerlaunch? Jan 07 21:50:32 :P Jan 07 21:50:52 probably something even simpler than that Jan 07 21:51:05 RST38h, if I could convince David to add some gconf hooks. :\ Jan 07 21:51:15 /etc/mce/mce.ini Jan 07 21:51:24 As it is, the whole device will need to be restarted and the configfile re-read to make any settings changes. Jan 07 21:52:39 General: umgh Jan 07 21:53:25 And there is *really* no way to place a little program that starts on device lock and send some dbus message turning wifi off? =) Jan 07 21:53:33 sends Jan 07 21:53:52 RST38h, /etc/mce/mce.ini Jan 07 21:54:03 The required functionality is all in mce Jan 07 21:54:12 but there's no way to configure it easily Jan 07 21:54:45 johnx: so what's new Mer-wise? Jan 07 21:54:57 Now, if we had gconf settings, it'd be as easy as putting together a control panel. Jan 07 21:55:08 GeneralAntilles: mce should just be what it is in powerlaunch, a tiny daemon handling different states.. Jan 07 21:55:16 and rest being done in systemui like things Jan 07 21:55:21 * RST38h wonders if The Tentacled One can be coerced into fixing mce.ini functionality Jan 07 21:55:25 FOR GOOD. Jan 07 21:55:26 OHM should improve this Jan 07 21:55:28 Well, whatever, OHM. :P Jan 07 21:55:38 RST38h, not at this point. Jan 07 21:55:59 General: Notice the "for good" part =) Jan 07 21:56:04 Maybe we can talk Nokia into building a gconf binary for us for a community edition. Jan 07 21:56:08 it was added there for a reason... Jan 07 21:56:21 General: you mean, mce binary Jan 07 21:56:33 because gconf (as storage mechanism) does not care Jan 07 21:56:40 s/a gconf/a gconf-based mce/ Jan 07 21:56:41 GeneralAntilles meant: Maybe we can talk Nokia into building a gconf-based mce binary for us for a community edition. Jan 07 21:56:41 Stskeeps, bashed my head against a wall with tzselect+zenity, looking at a proper 640x480 layout for a bit Jan 07 21:56:46 johnx: alright Jan 07 21:56:48 found the sapwood? Jan 07 21:57:01 yeah, works great in everything I've tested Jan 07 21:57:05 actually... Jan 07 21:57:09 * qwerty12_N800 grins at the idea of patching the leaked, old mce source and uploading a patch to nokia Jan 07 21:57:22 s/nokia/bugzilla/ Jan 07 21:57:25 A good behaving Unix daemon is supposed to reread configuration on SIGHUP Jan 07 21:57:38 Is mce different? Jan 07 21:57:55 qwerty12_N800: yeah, except that kind of behaviour is bound to give you trouble at some point in a future job application process.. Jan 07 21:58:19 but while you're at it, check if it responds to HUP Jan 07 21:58:27 Stskeeps, qwerty12 is a gangster, he don't need no job. Jan 07 21:58:31 look for signal() and sig* stuff Jan 07 21:58:32 Stskeeps, yeah, not worth the trouble for an wontfix Jan 07 21:58:51 suggestion for bug resolution "COMMUNITYSHOULDFIXIT" Jan 07 21:58:51 :P Jan 07 21:59:08 GeneralAntilles, ha, I'm just a boy with an extremely bad swearing habit.. Jan 07 21:59:28 Sts: Or just FUCKOFF Jan 07 21:59:35 Bad time? Jan 07 21:59:53 TrueJournals, context. :) Jan 07 21:59:54 TrueJournals: nah, discussing bug resolution types Jan 07 21:59:58 Ah Jan 07 22:00:03 'WONTFIX' 'COMMUNITYSHOULDFIXIT' 'FUCKOFF' Jan 07 22:00:04 :P Jan 07 22:00:11 That'd be a good one, actually... Jan 07 22:00:16 Either way, I agree. Stskeeps, just fuck off. :P Jan 07 22:00:34 :P~ Jan 07 22:02:59 GeneralAntilles: i'm inclined to think "just restarting" mce isn't fatal though Jan 07 22:03:34 * RST38h has doubts about this Jan 07 22:03:55 it is one thing to reread config file, and completely another to kill and restart the whole thing Jan 07 22:04:17 RST38h: you expect sensible semantics from a rushed, botched, badly designed, closed source, low-level, proprietary Nokia piece of crapware which is crucial to the device not arbitrarily rebooting? Jan 07 22:04:38 word Jan 07 22:04:46 Ehehe Jan 07 22:04:53 Jaffa: I no longer expect anything Jan 07 22:05:06 :) Jan 07 22:05:10 Just looking for loopholes. Jan 07 22:05:40 once you understand powerlaunch, its actually quite powerful :P Jan 07 22:05:48 and is a decent replacement Jan 07 22:05:59 thought you lose your sanity in the processs. its a balancing act Jan 07 22:06:05 yes, you do Jan 07 22:06:14 which is why someone needs to make something alike it, but saner Jan 07 22:06:15 without the t of course Jan 07 22:06:39 i dont think theres ever been an api invented which didnt piss off someone Jan 07 22:06:42 If it came with a half-dozen sane default configurations, it'd be workable. Jan 07 22:06:50 Oh, and if it were stable. Jan 07 22:07:29 Configuration is fine imho, it emulates systemui in looks well but the functionality is not all there Jan 07 22:07:29 it's basically a small script language reacting to events Jan 07 22:07:42 all the magic happens in the scripts Jan 07 22:09:13 i Jan 07 22:09:47 but i'm unsure what kind of language would be good for all the bloody many kind of events a tablet can have :P Jan 07 22:10:40 REXX? Jan 07 22:10:42 scottish Jan 07 22:10:59 * qwerty12_N800 hopes ohm is a serious replacement for mce, you have *so* much daemons listening from 3rd party programmers for events on dbus so they can o something Jan 07 22:11:06 java! java likes events! :E~~~~ Jan 07 22:11:06 rexx is just python before they added tabs isnt it Jan 07 22:11:08 s/ o/do/ Jan 07 22:11:51 RST38h: Nah, Java has no event stuff built-in. You want C# *cough* Jan 07 22:12:17 yea, right! mono! Jan 07 22:12:27 no, we need full color Jan 07 22:12:49 i really think a simple 'eval' could do the trick.. Jan 07 22:12:53 full color? then you want LOGO! Jan 07 22:12:53 or something Jan 07 22:13:07 nice Jan 07 22:13:11 color forth? Jan 07 22:13:18 go forth Jan 07 22:13:29 + * Jan 07 22:13:40 :) Jan 07 22:13:56 but having python as a generic event daemon might be freakish Jan 07 22:14:11 dbus+a giant bash script Jan 07 22:14:18 would be kindof sensible, python has squirreled its way into most of the system now Jan 07 22:14:34 python works well for certain things like the headset ;) *cough* Jan 07 22:15:08 is it easy to make an app have a python interface (like it used to be kinda easy to add an arexx interface Jan 07 22:15:15 lcuk: quite Jan 07 22:15:30 well, or embed python Jan 07 22:15:49 pscript Jan 07 22:16:27 i keep pondering scripting of some sort Jan 07 22:16:35 for liqbase? :P Jan 07 22:16:39 .. libliqbase Jan 07 22:16:54 libliqbase is low level objects Jan 07 22:17:02 its too dumb Jan 07 22:17:14 You'll make alterego cry if you ignore ruby :p Jan 07 22:17:15 but the higher level api looks like it might work Jan 07 22:17:25 ui Jan 07 22:22:21 but really.. how many event sources do we need? the buttons, dbus? Jan 07 22:23:50 ke-recv is also somewhat of an event handler come think of it Jan 07 22:24:56 yeah Jan 07 22:25:06 kernel events Jan 07 22:25:20 thought they removed those again though Jan 07 22:26:14 Stskeeps, besides first-boot-wizard is there something else you wanted me to work on? Jan 07 22:26:29 johnx: it's a large step on the way to an initial image at least Jan 07 22:26:56 Since we don't even have a clock right now I might just upload what I have without timezones Jan 07 22:27:06 *nod* Jan 07 22:27:34 it starts before hildon i guess or? Jan 07 22:28:16 * qwerty12_N800 recommends building fiferboy's clock applet. something so simple but it sure as hell increases the usefulness of the statusbar Jan 07 22:28:41 think I should make it part of auto-startx or separate it into another script? Jan 07 22:29:12 johnx: good question :P Jan 07 22:29:42 if I make it part of auto-startx then auto-startx will pull in zenity as a requirement or a recommend (if I make it only start if it's found) Jan 07 22:30:32 well, boot process should go along the lines of boot -> start X -> pop up first boot wizard -> startx as user as chosen -> hildon Jan 07 22:30:41 - i think Jan 07 22:31:08 right, it won't work as part of a a different script :) Jan 07 22:31:18 just remembered that I already figured that out Jan 07 22:33:27 lovely, flu epidemic rising Jan 07 22:33:45 always good in a month with exams Jan 07 22:33:54 in your area? all over? Jan 07 22:34:10 just in country Jan 07 22:34:57 well, just wash your hands after the bus/train Jan 07 22:35:23 hehe Jan 07 22:36:00 johnx: were you in the meeting earlier per chance? Jan 07 22:36:02 that was the nice thing about commuting by car in the states, but my immune system got weak Jan 07 22:36:09 nope, fraid not Jan 07 22:36:16 think I was briefly asleep :/ Jan 07 22:36:23 living in a 12 person dorm sure strengthes your immune defense too Jan 07 22:36:31 especially with all the left dishes.. Jan 07 22:36:41 I got thrashed when I first moved here and started riding the train Jan 07 22:42:28 heh, scary, we seem to have some community backing in this insane feat, johnx (http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=255204&postcount=8 ) Jan 07 22:43:17 oh man, didn't hear about the wimax thing tanking :/ Jan 07 22:43:18 sad Jan 07 22:43:33 that said, i should probably just ask if i can borrow a n810 for experimentation from my former boss Jan 07 22:43:43 i had one at some point but my current boss took it again.. hmm Jan 07 22:43:57 getting my work n800 back in shape should help too :P Jan 07 22:44:04 I can probably lay hands on one in a couple months. no chance right now though Jan 07 22:44:22 "back in shape"? did it eat too much fruit cake over christmas break? Jan 07 22:44:32 battery went completely dead and refused to charge Jan 07 22:44:36 eep Jan 07 22:44:48 left it out for 24 hours and it started charging, albeit slowly Jan 07 22:44:52 and if my office burns down, i know why Jan 07 22:46:02 yeah, I'm surprised they released the N810WE at all Jan 07 22:46:37 really had high hopes for wimax *sigh* Jan 07 22:46:44 i'm not entirely surprised though Jan 07 22:46:50 3g is exploding here in .dk for network purposes Jan 07 22:47:05 mobile carriers in the US are vultures though Jan 07 22:47:16 it'd be really nice to see more players in the game Jan 07 22:47:25 long live the next tablet with real standards Jan 07 22:48:21 after reading bug 943 I still want another tablet with a hard cover Jan 07 22:48:22 wimax is a real standard, but I think the lesson is that the mobile data landscape is changing faster than product development cycles can keep up with Jan 07 22:50:20 real as in widely used then. who tf gets an additional subscription to an wimax service when you already subscribe to mobile internet^H^H^H^H3g Jan 07 22:51:29 qwerty12_N800, if you're stuck on a crap mobile carrier in the US who has either 1) high data costs or 2) crappy coverage or 3) both Jan 07 22:51:55 and by stuck I mean: some areas are only covered adequately by one carrier Jan 07 22:53:55 johnx, meh, I dunno/care about the US and it's shitty networks (but I do see the significance to Nokia as they were only sold there) but as for the rest of the world... Jan 07 22:55:16 qwerty12_N800, yeah, all the UK carriers are on the same HSPA band, right? Jan 07 22:56:10 johnx, yep, also 3g band is the same all over Europe afaik Jan 07 22:56:28 that must be real nice Jan 07 22:56:46 I always live in the countries with odd cell phone networks... Jan 07 22:57:07 hehe :p Jan 07 22:57:37 at least the 3G coverage here is incredible Jan 07 22:57:56 Japan sounds awesome Jan 07 22:58:04 have to climb mountains or get on a subway before I lose a strong 3G signal Jan 07 22:58:18 but the subway stations themselves have great coverage :) Jan 07 22:58:34 they should Jan 07 22:58:59 :) Jan 07 22:59:23 is london tube still a hellhole in that area? Jan 07 22:59:26 I'm just surprised that each and every carrier co-los some equipment in every single crappy subway station in the suburbs Jan 07 22:59:39 in what area ISNT it a hellhole? Jan 07 22:59:53 it is probably made easy Jan 07 23:00:44 I suppose so, and certain things move from possible to obvious at a certain population density Jan 07 23:01:14 heh, i was very impressed with HK's "wifi ap in every phonebooth" Jan 07 23:01:14 oooh, video of the SGX rendering things on a beagleboard Jan 07 23:01:23 lcuk: indeed Jan 07 23:01:59 TfL (Transport for London) have announced there are going to be mobile phone repeaters in (some) Tube stations Jan 07 23:02:01 it was like descending into the pits of hell, the only experience of london i didnt like Jan 07 23:02:33 http://openpandora.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/3d-driver-in-action-on-the-beagleboard/ Jan 07 23:02:43 Jaffa: I wish they wouldn't, sometimes it's the only peace & quiet you can get! :) Jan 07 23:02:43 * qwerty12_N800 just hates the long escalators Jan 07 23:02:44 Although, compared with the West Coast Main Line over the last week, the Metropolitan/Circle/Hammersmith & City lines are fine Jan 07 23:03:43 mm, i'd like to see london again, think it was in 97 or something i saw it last Jan 07 23:03:54 omg clutter is just as jerky - WTF is wrong with it if it cant render simple things quickly? Jan 07 23:04:10 I wouldn't mind traveling around UK and EU in general Jan 07 23:04:12 i mean, they manage a nice high fill rate and lots of polys Jan 07 23:04:27 ahhh its general framerate Jan 07 23:06:36 mm Jan 07 23:07:02 those demos are actually kind of impressive Jan 07 23:07:48 and I imagine clutter will have to get some specific optimizations now that it's stabilizing in terms of development Jan 07 23:07:51 yeah the full 3d ones were, but clutter had 2 actors Jan 07 23:08:04 and those were controlled by box2d Jan 07 23:08:22 Still just demos of a beagelboard though - the Nokia hardware team will still manage to fck up the video on the next tablet device.... ;) Jan 07 23:08:38 probably not this time Jan 07 23:08:45 it's all on one chip :) Jan 07 23:08:53 They'll find a way.... Jan 07 23:08:59 as long as they don't solder it on backwards Jan 07 23:09:07 can still get the connectors wrong Jan 07 23:09:09 heh Jan 07 23:09:12 nah, they'll get video right but I hold out no hope for the d-pad Jan 07 23:10:23 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=24TXpqa9jG0&feature=related Jan 07 23:10:33 thats a better powervr omap3 demo Jan 07 23:11:03 those are the old drivers though. that new video was the just released drivers :) Jan 07 23:11:05 johnx: i think mer post-first-boot-wizard would need the following: an xterm (with HIM), hildon-control-panel in image, some degree of connectivity (i dont really care which as long as it works), installer working, libhildon providing libhildon-1-0 or whatever ubuntu hildon is (so we can use the -hildon packages in ubuntu); maybe building some things in extras Jan 07 23:11:10 the ones that will ship to pandora/beagle users Jan 07 23:11:24 johnx: think that's based on nokia drivers Jan 07 23:11:27 the first video Jan 07 23:11:57 Stskeeps, rxvt + xkbd :p Jan 07 23:12:04 but with the SGX binary from ImgTech, right? Jan 07 23:12:28 Stskeeps, "first-boot-wizard" needs all of this or just the next release? Jan 07 23:12:38 ah, misread Jan 07 23:12:38 nm Jan 07 23:12:40 johnx: 0.7 Jan 07 23:12:47 0.6 will have first-boot-wizard Jan 07 23:13:10 alrght, let me clean up first-boot-wizard and push it Jan 07 23:14:03 also we need a way to change themes sanely :P Jan 07 23:16:36 sanity is overratted Jan 07 23:16:41 rated Jan 07 23:16:42 Hi Jan 07 23:16:45 Wow Jan 07 23:16:51 Irc on my tablet Jan 07 23:16:53 cool. Jan 07 23:17:00 xchat or irssi? Jan 07 23:17:06 Pidgin Jan 07 23:17:14 Try XChat Jan 07 23:17:18 ah, if you're gonna do a lot of IRC try xchat Jan 07 23:17:19 It's much nicer than Pidgin for IRC Jan 07 23:17:22 Hey G.A Jan 07 23:17:29 A familar name Jan 07 23:17:55 I only found out how to use IRC a few minutes ago Jan 07 23:18:01 johnx: oh! and hildon application manager Jan 07 23:18:10 Stskeeps, gah. do we have to? Jan 07 23:18:12 :P Jan 07 23:18:23 Has anyone actually used that irssi package in -devell come think of it? Jan 07 23:18:30 -l Jan 07 23:18:32 Hey qwerty Jan 07 23:18:40 qwerty12_N800: until xterm has text completion.. Jan 07 23:18:40 hi tehforum Jan 07 23:18:41 Thanks for solving my lock code problem Jan 07 23:18:51 np :) Jan 07 23:19:16 So i got really frightened yesterday Jan 07 23:19:23 I took out my battery Jan 07 23:19:33 Stskeeps, heh, I've had text completion in xterm, didn't work well... Jan 07 23:19:48 Cleaned the inside, and when i put it on charge and switched the tablet on Jan 07 23:20:02 qwerty12_N800: re xchat build, you probably need to run autogen.sh or 'libtoolize --force --copy' in rules somewhere Jan 07 23:20:07 The display wouldn't "show" but the keyboard did light up Jan 07 23:20:24 So i was like "crap", and thought my display was broken Jan 07 23:20:39 But after a few more restarts the nokia logo comes on Jan 07 23:20:45 Stskeeps, will make a note of that thanks Jan 07 23:20:48 So thats good Jan 07 23:20:48 woo Jan 07 23:20:54 maemopad compiles on mer scratchbox sdk! Jan 07 23:21:14 I never knew there would be so many people on the maemo channel Jan 07 23:21:14 awesome! that's the most maemo-ized package I can think of actually Jan 07 23:21:30 Has anyone tried mypaint? Jan 07 23:21:48 what about maemopad+? :D Jan 07 23:22:40 qwerty12_N800, I think the packaging is more sane in the + version IIRC Jan 07 23:23:31 i think (scaringily), that pymaemo will be our worst part Jan 07 23:23:56 Who's the sheriff in the room? Jan 07 23:24:06 ChanServ Jan 07 23:24:13 don't have one I think Jan 07 23:24:24 johnx, most likely is - with things like maemo-icon-26 being employed etc, i think maemopad is an maemo-examples app so more likely to be tested in sbox Jan 07 23:25:30 Does anyone know how to use aircrack? Jan 07 23:25:32 * Stskeeps wonders idly why gstreamer source is in extras Jan 07 23:25:33 qwerty12_N800, for some reason I was remembering something about it that made it never work outside sbox...might be making it up Jan 07 23:26:02 at least we test it on non-scratchbox and in-scratchbox when we build stuff Jan 07 23:26:47 johnx, no idea, I've never actually ran it once even inside sbox or on the tablets :) Jan 07 23:27:43 s/made it/made building it from source Jan 07 23:28:24 tehforum, dunno about using it to the full potential but I just feed it a dump from kismet Jan 07 23:29:24 Stskeeps, to be able to pick and mix certain gstreamer plugins that nokia don't build afaik - like ogg Jan 07 23:29:26 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23333 Jan 07 23:29:36 I need to sniff out some packets. Jan 07 23:29:53 qwerty12_N800: mm, i'm not touching sound until we have some kind of agreement to distribute complete firmware images :P Jan 07 23:30:09 really don't want to rely on a /mnt/rootfs trick Jan 07 23:30:19 :) Jan 07 23:30:22 * johnx crosses his fingers for non-dsp sound Jan 07 23:30:36 *One year anniversary* Jan 07 23:31:27 Of having this tablet. Jan 07 23:31:48 Its only failed twice. :) Jan 07 23:31:52 Stskeeps, applets i have to see is the statusbar clock & advanced power (after getting pymaemo working :p) Jan 07 23:32:27 statusbar clock is C or python? Jan 07 23:32:37 C Jan 07 23:32:53 k Jan 07 23:33:21 johnx: re wimax comment, think we have the reason why there was hints "giggling was heard inside nokia hqs when wimax edition was mentioned" :P Jan 07 23:33:36 Lol Jan 07 23:36:50 Meiz_n810: can you investigate if you can find any of the "alternative" non-NetworkManager applets that does wifi connectivity? Jan 07 23:36:55 that actually work Jan 07 23:37:31 Does anyone know a good file manager? Except for the one installed already? Jan 07 23:37:36 I really want a beagle board now. Though the exchange rate from GBP to USD is pretty damn poor at the moment. Jan 07 23:37:53 Damn right Jan 07 23:37:56 tehforum: ls, mv, rm, cp Jan 07 23:38:11 alterego, still cheaper than anything else out there for the power it has... Jan 07 23:38:13 $7 = £4.52 Jan 07 23:38:13 Oh, and cd, pwd :) Jan 07 23:38:46 Meiz_n810: maybe 'wicd' Jan 07 23:39:13 Mc or gpe file manager? Jan 07 23:39:35 emelfm2 isn't bad Jan 07 23:39:39 I like the cd command Jan 07 23:39:56 I'll try that then Jan 07 23:40:07 Looks like it's going up though, which is good :) Jan 07 23:40:10 Cd /media/mmc1 Jan 07 23:40:14 I'm going to wait a week and see what happens. Jan 07 23:40:17 http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/GBP/graph120.html Jan 07 23:40:25 Cd not found ;p Jan 07 23:40:29 Lol Jan 07 23:40:37 Auto capitalization Jan 07 23:40:47 Heh Jan 07 23:40:48 Too much of a good thing is a bad thing Jan 07 23:40:55 In xchat, you don't get that :p Jan 07 23:41:00 I didn't think auto caps worked in the terminal .. Jan 07 23:41:04 Especially with case sensitive stuff in xterm Jan 07 23:41:14 I meant, _didn't_ work in the terminal .. Jan 07 23:41:15 I'm not sure though Jan 07 23:41:24 Lets put it to the test Jan 07 23:42:04 alterego, thank god :) but it isn't hard to enable - a one line change to libvte Jan 07 23:42:16 :) Jan 07 23:42:35 Theres a shift option Jan 07 23:42:45 Just got back from the pub, did a pub quiz . AND WON A MEAL FOR TWO! Jan 07 23:42:50 So yeah Jan 07 23:42:53 :@ Jan 07 23:42:57 Ended on 66 points the 2nd place got 53 :D Jan 07 23:43:08 alterego, wicked :D Jan 07 23:43:12 Yup Jan 07 23:43:19 qwerty12_N800: we should get osso-xterm to work with ubuntu vte or something :P Jan 07 23:43:29 Try and beat the eggheads Jan 07 23:43:32 Bbc2 Jan 07 23:43:34 libvte-ruby ftw :P Jan 07 23:43:45 Stskeeps, it's what I kept suggesting ;) Jan 07 23:44:01 alterego: are you staying close to ubuntu ruby package names? please say you do Jan 07 23:44:06 What does osso-xterm use at the moment? Jan 07 23:44:14 libvte4 Jan 07 23:44:16 Stskeeps: yes, pretty close. Jan 07 23:44:21 alterego: thank god. Jan 07 23:44:23 In fact, almost identical. Jan 07 23:44:29 Oh, the emelfm2 is chinook, Jan 07 23:44:32 * Stskeeps has been dealing with pymaemo today Jan 07 23:44:37 on mer, as part of work Jan 07 23:44:41 that was an interesting experience Jan 07 23:44:59 The only difference is the ruby1.8-dev package which I call libruby1.8-dev Jan 07 23:45:14 add in a "Provides: ruby1.8-dev" if you can Jan 07 23:45:26 Yeah, it's ubuntu that is wrong though. Jan 07 23:45:31 ubuntu/debian Jan 07 23:45:32 Stskeeps, it's a good thing you're doing it as part of work. sounds too frustrating to be part of the personal time you put into this Jan 07 23:45:49 ubuntu has a package: libruby1.8-dbg Jan 07 23:45:51 wtf?! Jan 07 23:46:11 gotta pick and choose your battles Jan 07 23:46:30 alterego: debug package++ Jan 07 23:46:50 Stskeeps: ubuntu does: libruby1.8-dbg and ruby1.8-dev. Jan 07 23:46:53 heh Jan 07 23:46:54 silly Jan 07 23:46:57 Which is b*llsh*t Jan 07 23:47:11 Again, ubuntu/debian :) Jan 07 23:47:18 So my dev package is named libruby not ruby .. Jan 07 23:47:33 Mainly because you don't need to install the interpreter to develop libraries. Jan 07 23:48:43 cdBS, hehe... Jan 07 23:48:52 Oh, I also have a 'erb1.8' package which debian/ubuntu don't have. Jan 07 23:49:13 if they don't have it it doesn't conflict so that's ok Jan 07 23:49:57 Well, the executable that my package provides, I /think/ is in the ruby1.8 package .. Though it could be in the irb1.8 package. Jan 07 23:50:06 Is erb a part of any other package in debian/ubuntu Jan 07 23:50:11 nvr mind Jan 07 23:51:17 Oh, I have extras access now :) So I'll be uploading packages this weekend :) Jan 07 23:51:20 Or before, :) Jan 07 23:51:36 whee :) Jan 07 23:51:45 Does Mer have an autobuilder yet? ;) Jan 07 23:51:52 For what Jan 07 23:51:59 May i ask Jan 07 23:52:03 tehforum: ruby-maemo ;) Jan 07 23:52:11 tehforum: http://blog.rubyx.co.uk/ Jan 07 23:53:25 Nice Jan 07 23:53:34 Big project? Jan 07 23:53:43 Fairly. Jan 07 23:53:52 It's the ruby equivalent of pymaemo I guess. Jan 07 23:54:14 alterego, like Jaffa said (I think), a single ruby meta package in user/ that installs the minimum to run most ruby apps would be nice. pymaemo's method of installing it is a little odd :/ Jan 07 23:54:15 Better language, though slightly less maemo oriented features at the moment as I've not put in as many hours. Jan 07 23:54:46 qwerty12_N800: yeah. I'm hearing what everyone is saying. But I'm still not convinced ;) Jan 07 23:54:58 I want application devs to depend on the packages they depend on. Jan 07 23:55:12 If they need full Gtk/Hildon then depend on hildon1-ruby1.8 Jan 07 23:55:36 osso: libosso-ruby1.8 etc. Jan 07 23:55:38 alterego: its not really an autobuilder but it woeks. jaiku.com/channel/merbuilder Jan 07 23:58:14 Stskeeps: I'd quite like to help with the Mer project. What kinds of things need to be done? Jan 07 23:59:11 alterego: well, contribution will soon be easier once we finish the initial image. Jan 07 23:59:30 Presumably you're working on a scratchbox rootfs? Jan 07 23:59:45 you can grab armel sdk at Jan 07 23:59:53 ~mer Jan 07 23:59:54 extra, extra, read all about it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint Jan 07 23:59:58 Will maemo.org be hosting repositories for you? Jan 08 00:00:11 in sb1 sdk Jan 08 00:00:16 and yes, at some point Jan 08 00:00:31 wanted sdk stable first Jan 08 00:01:22 we have a chroot x86 package builder and sb armel sdk builder atm Jan 08 00:01:44 Cool Jan 08 00:02:25 and native building is always a possibility for on the go dev work :) Jan 08 00:02:36 Is there a way to view cookies saved on microb? Jan 08 00:03:59 tehforum: if you go to the website you can do in the location bar: 'javascript: alert(document.cookie);' :) Jan 08 00:04:20 cat ~/.mozilla/microb/cookies.txt Jan 08 00:05:43 Ok how would i copy that cookies file to my internal memory card Jan 08 00:05:50 but that was fast :o, fast Jan 08 00:05:53 Thanks Jan 08 00:06:42 alterego, from earlier: i think mer post-first-boot-wizard (0.7) would need the following: an xterm (with HIM), hildon-control-panel in image, some degree of connectivity (i dont really care which as long as it works), installer working, libhildon providing libhildon-1-0 or whatever ubuntu hildon is (so we can use the -hildon packages in ubuntu); maybe building some things in extras, hildon application manager, changing themes sanely Jan 08 00:07:06 cp ~/.mozilla/microb/cookies.txt /media/mmc2 Jan 08 00:07:39 Right Jan 08 00:08:02 So Mer needs some open versions of Nokias closed utilities. Jan 08 00:08:13 Thanks Jan 08 00:08:18 yeah, in a lot of places Jan 08 00:08:20 I'd be quite interested in porting ubuntu's package manager to hildon .. Jan 08 00:08:30 the add/remove one? Jan 08 00:08:31 Is there a place i need get a quick reference of command to use in xterm Jan 08 00:08:34 or synaptic? Jan 08 00:08:36 They'd be pretty handy Jan 08 00:08:54 alterego, all of the before is open though Jan 08 00:09:09 Synaptic is a bit resolution hungry. Jan 08 00:09:17 The update manager would be sweet though. Jan 08 00:09:22 Application Manager is open anyway. Jan 08 00:09:22 Yeah Jan 08 00:09:23 isn't ham largely synaptic based? Jan 08 00:09:41 StsN800, well they're all just apt front-ends Jan 08 00:09:46 if it is, it doesn't show... Jan 08 00:10:08 I was thinking more gnome-app-installer and gnome-update-manager Jan 08 00:10:29 Ubuntu rocks btw Jan 08 00:10:34 How about gdebi too? :) Jan 08 00:10:39 but i can't get sound to work in WINE Jan 08 00:12:00 StsN800: I'd seriously be interested in porting gnome-app-manager and gnome-update-manager if you want me to :) Jan 08 00:12:07 s/porting/hildonizing/ Jan 08 00:12:08 alterego meant: StsN800: I'd seriously be interested in hildonizing gnome-app-manager and gnome-update-manager if you want me to :) Jan 08 00:12:37 anything is good. just don't bring in all of libgnome* in the process :) Jan 08 00:12:42 hehe.. it sounds a bit heavy though Jan 08 00:12:46 And I promise I wont s/python/ruby/ ;) Jan 08 00:12:51 StsN800: not at all. Jan 08 00:13:09 We're not talking about the 1,000's of packages ubuntu has in it's "universe". Jan 08 00:13:29 but try get our sdk first and perhaps image Jan 08 00:13:30 gnome-app-manager is pretty light weight .. Jan 08 00:14:26 And it has pretty icons for the categories .. Unlike maemo ;) Jan 08 00:14:30 Sorry ITOS :) Jan 08 00:14:53 if you wanted to fix hildon-application-manager that would be even better of course :) Jan 08 00:15:05 Is it broken? Jan 08 00:15:13 I thought it was proprietary. Jan 08 00:15:18 nah, it's open Jan 08 00:15:33 and anything without pretty icons is b0rken of course :) Jan 08 00:16:16 Is that application not the software used in IT OS? Jan 08 00:16:26 same one Jan 08 00:16:55 it's open source and people have already been hacking on it. Might need some logic tweaks to work nicely with ubuntu though... Jan 08 00:20:04 johnx, oh and continual ports of diablo/fremantle dbus interfaces could be good. simply get source package, dpkg-source -x, dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -us -uc and try to see if builder agrees, if no, hack Jan 08 00:20:29 "dbus interfaces" what package would that be? Jan 08 00:22:07 tablet-browser-interface and friends Jan 08 00:22:39 alterego, s/ITOS/Maemo/g Jan 08 00:22:46 alarmd.. Jan 08 00:23:04 * alterego shudders Jan 08 00:23:06 Done osso? Jan 08 00:23:11 GeneralAntilles, actually, that's kind of useful to have the distinction in this case :P Jan 08 00:23:34 johnx, but it's entirely inaccuaret. Jan 08 00:23:55 alterego, reacquaint yourself with Maemo's open source components. :P Jan 08 00:24:04 I was attempting to draw a line between OSS and Nokias closed binaries. What would you have me say? Jan 08 00:24:22 Well, if you're talking about h-a-m, then it's open source. :P Jan 08 00:24:35 I was asking whether it was closed though :P Jan 08 00:25:01 GeneralAntilles, being understood > "accuracy" Jan 08 00:25:09 Heh Jan 08 00:25:41 Oh crap, did I miss the meeting? Jan 08 00:25:43 anyhow, bedtime Jan 08 00:26:13 'night StsN800. I'll put up first-boot-wizard in a bit, and maybe look at some of the other stuff on that list :) Jan 08 00:26:15 johnx, well, I didn't understand him. :P Jan 08 00:26:27 GeneralAntilles, that's ok :) Jan 08 00:27:42 GeneralAntilles, so if we're just referring to the UI part of Maemo, then hildon is the official name handed down from the Nokia gods, right? Jan 08 00:28:13 Right Jan 08 00:28:33 and Maemo is the overall project and the name of the distribution Jan 08 00:28:54 * johnx should make a $%*&ing hierarchical chart Jan 08 00:29:42 but this part always gets me: there is "maemo the overarching open source initiative" and "maemo the distro full of closed source stuff" Jan 08 00:29:54 s/initiative/project or whatever Jan 08 00:32:08 There's no differentiation between the open and closed parts. :) Jan 08 00:32:23 Maemo the OS and Maemo the platform is somewhat confusing Jan 08 00:34:44 which is why it was nice when we could call the distro ITOS to differentiate it from "maemo the platform" Jan 08 00:35:04 actually I like "The distro formerly known as ITOS" :) Jan 08 00:35:23 <`Mace> skype lite for android Jan 08 00:35:29 <`Mace> ! Jan 08 00:35:42 had to happen eventually Jan 08 00:35:44 <`Mace> supposed to be put on the market tomorrow but aren't sure when it will be available Jan 08 00:35:54 <`Mace> first native java app from skype Jan 08 00:36:07 <`Mace> they're cutting out their 3rd party licenses haha Jan 08 00:36:21 <`Mace> this is usually the first step in becoming a conglomerate Jan 08 00:36:38 <`Mace> skype is on the path towards being the next vonage :) Jan 08 00:36:51 countdown till someone reverse engineers skype protocol... Jan 08 00:36:52 can i transfer my project from being svn hosted to git? Jan 08 00:37:03 and if so, what benefits do i get Jan 08 00:37:24 <`Mace> start out cheap... gather clients and customers... cut out licenses by making your own software... raise price Jan 08 00:37:34 <`Mace> it's the same thing apple did :) Jan 08 00:38:14 and MS, if you tilt you head a little bit. :) It's the great American dream: start out small and screw everyone who helped you along the way Jan 08 00:38:27 <`Mace> of course! Jan 08 00:38:29 <`Mace> :) Jan 08 00:38:59 <`Mace> eventually you pass that threshhold where you have good users and clients.. Jan 08 00:39:08 <`Mace> and then you just start to have the people who want a hand me out Jan 08 00:39:10 lcuk, git is supposed to handle distributed development better, but if svn is working for you and your other devs aren't complaining it might not be a big deal Jan 08 00:39:12 <`Mace> look at comcast :) Jan 08 00:39:52 <`Mace> i related comcast to when the city used to put salt on the corners in these box things... so people in the neighborhood could salt their sidewalks after shoveling during the winter Jan 08 00:40:03 <`Mace> what do you think started to happen to the salt? :) Jan 08 00:40:11 well since im not updating svn at the mo its probably for the best i look towards the future Jan 08 00:40:30 svn will get updated in the next week or so, but its not ready for now Jan 08 00:40:32 <`Mace> some ASSHOLE.. in a truck.. systematically went box to box stealing all the salt leaving everybody else to fend for themselves Jan 08 00:40:47 <`Mace> and fucked it up for everybody haha Jan 08 00:40:59 `Mace, and then his truck rusted? Jan 08 00:41:13 <`Mace> doesn't matter.. he had more than enough salt to sell to make up for a rusted truck ;) Jan 08 00:41:22 i understand the need for truckfuls of salt, but where did he get enough lemons? Jan 08 00:41:44 <`Mace> comcast was in the same situation Jan 08 00:41:51 <`Mace> they left salt out for people because they had plenty of it Jan 08 00:42:11 <`Mace> and 5 people came along and used enough salt that 40 people could have used Jan 08 00:42:30 then they realized they had less than they thought they did and realized they could get away with charging for it now that they're the only game in town Jan 08 00:42:39 <`Mace> can't blame them for being assholes with their connections .. especially when someone paying 20/month expects to download 5TB/month Jan 08 00:42:52 <`Mace> johnx - yeah that too :) Jan 08 00:43:00 no sympathy for big cable, big telco or big wireless Jan 08 00:43:03 <`Mace> ATT is around here.. but their dsl is GARBAGE Jan 08 00:43:08 <`Mace> it's absolutely horrible Jan 08 00:43:24 <`Mace> i don't know if it's the archaic phone lines here or what.. but it is bad Jan 08 00:43:31 <`Mace> the FASTEST i could get here is 1.5mbit Jan 08 00:43:47 <`Mace> i tried to get them to bump it up because that really is slow as hell for today's internet connection Jan 08 00:43:54 <`Mace> but they said they couldn't :) how sad Jan 08 00:44:11 <`Mace> you know it's bad when youtube is stuttering Jan 08 00:44:22 the symptom: crappy, expensive broadband. the cause: at most two players in any given area Jan 08 00:44:49 <`Mace> true Jan 08 00:44:58 <`Mace> there are wireless alternatives now Jan 08 00:45:09 <`Mace> i'm pretty sure most cell companies offer "wireless broadband internet" Jan 08 00:45:18 <`Mace> i didn't look into it too much tho Jan 08 00:45:22 w/ a 5GB/month cap Jan 08 00:45:26 <`Mace> really? Jan 08 00:45:34 <`Mace> damn.. i'd go through that in a day Jan 08 00:45:48 `Mace, you're next on the list of comcast's heavy users :P Jan 08 00:45:58 <`Mace> when comcast started getting antsy about their bandwidth.. i just called them up and told them to bump me up to a capless business line Jan 08 00:45:59 <`Mace> ;) Jan 08 00:46:06 `Mace, they'll just keep going down their list starting from the top until they get to you Jan 08 00:46:15 <`Mace> you would be suprised how difficult it was to find information on how to get a business line Jan 08 00:46:26 <`Mace> i got the india indian call a long time ago saying i was using too much Jan 08 00:46:39 <`Mace> and asked him.. ok.. then how do i get a better line and give you mor emoney so it isn't a big deal anymore? Jan 08 00:46:41 <`Mace> and he had no clue Jan 08 00:46:51 <`Mace> lol Jan 08 00:46:55 <`Mace> business lines aren't capped Jan 08 00:46:59 <`Mace> and cost around 20/month more Jan 08 00:47:01 <`Mace> :) Jan 08 00:47:11 <`Mace> it's just simple extortion Jan 08 00:47:24 <`Mace> i don't mind payin gan extra 20/month to avoid the headache Jan 08 00:47:41 <`Mace> haha.. they already got to me once when i had a res line Jan 08 00:47:54 I guess $20/month isn't bad if you're allowed to host servers on it Jan 08 00:47:58 <`Mace> "You have downloaded 250G and it is only 2 weeks into the month..." Jan 08 00:48:01 I mean $20 more than a normal plan Jan 08 00:48:12 <`Mace> yeah. they had a sale on it though Jan 08 00:48:20 <`Mace> plus you have to sign a 2 yr lease Jan 08 00:48:24 I'd setup my own little CoLo Jan 08 00:48:28 <`Mace> i think the 1yr lease was a little higher Jan 08 00:48:44 probably couldn't get it going to an apartment :) Jan 08 00:48:55 <`Mace> i got this line going into my house ;) Jan 08 00:49:04 <`Mace> just tell them you run your business out of your apartment Jan 08 00:49:05 <`Mace> haha Jan 08 00:49:20 <`Mace> they don't really care.. they just want the money Jan 08 00:49:36 apartments are usually just one option though unless you can get wimax or want to use 3G Jan 08 00:49:39 <`Mace> only kids can't pay extra money for more bandwidth ;) which is who they are trying to cut off Jan 08 00:49:50 <`Mace> wimax! blah Jan 08 00:49:57 <`Mace> i was hoping they had it here in chicago but no go Jan 08 00:50:01 <`Mace> it's still "planned" Jan 08 00:50:04 <`Mace> whatever :) Jan 08 00:50:27 <`Mace> so i went to tmob and got my g1 Jan 08 00:50:28 nah, two birds with one stone: get rid of their biggest users to avoid having to improve their infrastructure and get money out of everyone else Jan 08 00:50:34 <`Mace> att's 3G SUCKED Jan 08 00:50:43 <`Mace> it was constantly cut off.. their voice service went straight to shit too Jan 08 00:50:48 <`Mace> i think they're cutting off towers to save money Jan 08 00:51:12 <`Mace> they have a good infrastructure Jan 08 00:51:13 they're moving more spectrum from EDGE to 3G now though Jan 08 00:51:20 <`Mace> one thing i can say about comcast.. they do keep up with good speed Jan 08 00:51:36 won't last with everyone hitting youtube all the time Jan 08 00:51:37 <`Mace> i have rarely if ever had a problem with them other than the long wait for the install Jan 08 00:51:51 <`Mace> naw.. eventually it will level down Jan 08 00:52:07 Video-over-IP is the future though Jan 08 00:52:08 <`Mace> plus i'm sure they lost a lot of users during the economic crash Jan 08 00:52:18 <`Mace> i dunno Jan 08 00:52:21 that's the direction it's going Jan 08 00:52:22 <`Mace> most people just want to talk on the phone Jan 08 00:52:23 <`Mace> ;) Jan 08 00:52:36 comcast or AT&T? Jan 08 00:52:39 <`Mace> being on camera to most people is kind of a pain Jan 08 00:53:03 <`Mace> stage fright and shit.. only time i ever use my webcam is to talk to my little son when i'm at work Jan 08 00:53:15 <`Mace> other than that i could care less to SEE anybody that i need to talk to Jan 08 00:53:21 errr...I meant youtube/TV-over-IP will kill comcast, not video-chat will kill t-mo/att Jan 08 00:53:29 <`Mace> haha Jan 08 00:53:32 <`Mace> usenet will before that Jan 08 00:53:33 <`Mace> ;) Jan 08 00:53:40 nah,they killed usnet first Jan 08 00:53:47 <`Mace> no way Jan 08 00:53:52 <`Mace> usenet is still going pretty strong Jan 08 00:53:56 everyone's dropping it though Jan 08 00:54:02 <`Mace> wow really? Jan 08 00:54:07 the ISPs I mean Jan 08 00:54:08 <`Mace> oh.. maybe their personal servers Jan 08 00:54:11 <`Mace> yeah Jan 08 00:54:18 <`Mace> the isps aren't serving it anymore Jan 08 00:54:28 <`Mace> which means $40/month is going to giganews ;) Jan 08 00:54:34 <`Mace> x 189237928137189372 Jan 08 00:54:46 <`Mace> for the price of buying 1 bray a month Jan 08 00:54:49 right, but people are watching TV over the internet Jan 08 00:54:57 <`Mace> you can download 500 Jan 08 00:55:11 <`Mace> i've never really done that Jan 08 00:55:25 <`Mace> honestly don't even know how to tell you the truth.. i'd probably do it if my popcornhour box supported it Jan 08 00:55:49 been watching CES coverage? new TVs have it built in Jan 08 00:56:07 youtube / netflix / amazon / some with hulu I think Jan 08 00:56:10 <`Mace> i download the shows i want.. only time i watch something would be local sports or the news Jan 08 00:56:23 <`Mace> which i could get ota Jan 08 00:56:29 <`Mace> with my tv's digital tuner ;) Jan 08 00:56:49 you could get it OTA, but you don't because it's on when you don't feel like watching TV :) Jan 08 00:57:20 <`Mace> no.. i watch the local news every now and then ota Jan 08 00:57:25 <`Mace> signal isn't that bad either Jan 08 00:57:40 <`Mace> was expecting it to skip a lot more than it does.. i'll probably get a stutter once a day Jan 08 00:57:48 <`Mace> ok.. i'm going to go to the store Jan 08 00:57:56 <`Mace> waiting on skype to get released onto the google market soon :) Jan 08 00:57:59 <`Mace> haha Jan 08 00:58:06 <`Mace> tmob 3G is pretty good Jan 08 00:58:13 <`Mace> i downloaded like 3G on it so far Jan 08 00:58:18 I'll keep it in mind :) Jan 08 00:58:20 <`Mace> 3Gigabytes Jan 08 00:58:21 <`Mace> heh Jan 08 00:58:36 <`Mace> want to see how long it takes before they comcast me :) Jan 08 00:58:57 <`Mace> they are probably allowing people to get away with murder in order to test their network out for android Jan 08 00:58:59 I think after 5GB they'll drop you to EDGE or something Jan 08 00:59:02 don't remember Jan 08 00:59:15 <`Mace> well. there is only one way to find out! Jan 08 00:59:16 <`Mace> :) Jan 08 00:59:33 <`Mace> although when i'm home i can just use the wifi Jan 08 00:59:43 <`Mace> mp4s that i play on the phone are like 150MB/hr Jan 08 00:59:55 <`Mace> and i only download them when i'm desperate and forgot to copy something to watch onto it Jan 08 01:00:19 <`Mace> ok.. ttyl Jan 08 01:00:22 'later Jan 08 01:16:04 it's cold Jan 08 01:16:09 yes Jan 08 01:19:47 oh god help me Jan 08 01:20:43 space heater Jan 08 01:46:37 error checking always taks more code than the actual program :/ Jan 08 01:51:48 * johnx wonders about localizing bash scripts Jan 08 01:54:43 johnx, every single line of code can fail Jan 08 01:55:15 but users fail twice as much as code Jan 08 01:55:50 no, badly written code will consistantly perform badly, even a stupid human will get it right some of the time ;) Jan 08 01:55:52 thankfully I have adduer to check username validity Jan 08 01:56:33 heh, my users failed because of damned "." Jan 08 02:49:33 johnx, shit, I see what you mean by 2TB. . . . Jan 08 02:49:35 Bleh Jan 08 02:51:42 we should see it on linux devices with a kernel update Jan 08 02:59:19 But exFAT? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 08 02:59:57 2009