**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 08 02:59:57 2009 Jan 08 03:06:24 wow...that's really messed up that there can't be an open source implementation Jan 08 03:06:40 guess MS got the SD association under their heal finally Jan 08 03:17:53 Yeah, "standards" Jan 08 03:17:57 What are these people thinking? :\ Jan 08 03:18:56 I was just giving linux a big pat on the back for finally having really reliable ntfs read/write support...seriously though...exfat? even xp users are screwed Jan 08 03:19:16 but xp users are MS's enemy just as much as mac or linux users are :/ Jan 08 03:21:40 Maybe Microsoft will open it up when Summer comes. :P Jan 08 03:22:05 that has the potential to be much worse than a straight reverse engineering job Jan 08 03:23:17 seriously, there isn't even an up-to-date patch for the linux kernel it seems. Bet that'll change pretty quick when these hit the streets though Jan 08 03:23:52 bah, such a SNAFU. but not thinking about it, AFK Jan 08 03:25:31 Mess up shit Jan 08 03:25:46 You wonder who the hell is on the committees that decide this nonsense Jan 08 03:55:07 hello Jan 08 03:55:28 can any1 help me ? Jan 08 04:01:49 just ask Jan 08 04:01:53 if anyone can they will Jan 08 04:02:19 saying that its 4-5am in Europe Jan 08 04:02:29 :O Jan 08 04:02:30 ok Jan 08 04:02:30 and US east coast must be 12am Jan 08 04:02:35 so... Jan 08 04:02:43 many people wont be around Jan 08 04:02:43 i have a problem whit maemo-mapper Jan 08 04:04:13 in console: "Segmentation fault (core dumped)" when i try to run maemo-mapper Jan 08 04:04:27 TheFatal, that sounds fatal Jan 08 04:04:37 reinstall Jan 08 04:04:43 if it persists there is a bug Jan 08 04:05:41 there is a bug, becos i reinstall the soft and the fw Jan 08 04:07:13 Reinstall wont help Jan 08 04:07:17 Delete your dbs Jan 08 04:07:27 -.- who ? Jan 08 04:07:29 how ? Jan 08 04:07:53 fk tip xD Jan 08 04:08:07 what i have to do ? Jan 08 04:13:49 how to remove dbs ? Jan 08 04:14:10 Wherever you defined them Jan 08 04:14:12 Delete them. Jan 08 04:15:28 but i have no idea where there are... :S Jan 08 04:15:53 Maybe Home if you didn't move them. . . . Jan 08 04:16:28 poi.db ¡¡ Jan 08 04:16:30 ?? Jan 08 04:16:38 That's one. Jan 08 04:17:29 no Jan 08 04:17:43 the same msj error Jan 08 04:17:49 the same error mesage Jan 08 04:20:47 The same error message Jan 08 04:35:56 well Jan 08 04:36:15 wonder wha to do Jan 08 05:39:55 hm... something a boutthe girl with the bone on her head Jan 08 05:40:01 in babylon5 kind of turns me on Jan 08 05:40:25 OK *cough* Jan 08 06:12:21 ces 2009 - netbooks netbooks netbooks Jan 08 06:12:27 is nokia there? Jan 08 06:15:04 hm Jan 08 06:16:06 pupnik, skype announced an official android program Jan 08 06:16:16 first java skype made by skype Jan 08 06:17:24 thank god because all they have is iskoot Jan 08 06:17:37 which is absolute garbage Jan 08 06:18:09 it uses minutes to use skype.. uses call forwarding through the voice channel rather than actual pkkt data Jan 08 06:18:13 they should be lined up and shot Jan 08 06:18:22 the whole dev team Jan 08 06:20:06 pupnik, not in a Maemo capacity Jan 08 06:22:39 MaceN800, fringe does skype, voip and a bunch of others over data... Jan 08 06:22:46 uh, fring Jan 08 06:23:06 no fring for android Jan 08 06:23:23 i'll just wait for an official skype release Jan 08 06:23:27 nokia is not being effective in the media-space Jan 08 06:23:39 god damn google Jan 08 06:23:44 haha Jan 08 06:23:50 android is absolutely awesome Jan 08 06:23:51 Eh, there's nothing to talk about Maemo-wise. Jan 08 06:23:59 Especially not for a consumer electronics show Jan 08 06:24:08 nokia should do a major update to symbian to compete prretty soon Jan 08 06:24:23 keep the base but make it a little prettier to use Jan 08 06:24:28 i could think of nice media apperances Jan 08 06:24:39 nice model woman, wearing 3 n810s Jan 08 06:25:01 N810 is basically EOL Jan 08 06:25:17 yeah Jan 08 06:25:34 There'll be fanfare and media coverage when the RX-51's out. Jan 08 06:25:34 maemo needs to look nicer too Jan 08 06:25:38 the display could be screenshot nipples Jan 08 06:25:48 i don't know.. after getting my g1.. nokia seems behind the running Jan 08 06:25:54 MaceN800, compared to what? :\ Jan 08 06:25:59 pls explain MaceN800 Jan 08 06:26:02 srsly Jan 08 06:26:05 It looks better than almost everything else as-is. Jan 08 06:26:16 i think android is better Jan 08 06:26:23 Meh Jan 08 06:26:25 then again android has stronger hardware Jan 08 06:26:30 Either way, who cares? Jan 08 06:26:33 but my n95 is very strong Jan 08 06:26:36 Android is a cellular platform Jan 08 06:26:43 and runs symbian which looks like it is from the mid 90s Jan 08 06:26:59 so is symbian Jan 08 06:27:08 and it has been the same for about a decade Jan 08 06:27:09 ok wait Jan 08 06:27:12 :) Jan 08 06:27:19 MaceN800, #maemo not #symbian Jan 08 06:27:22 google phone manages your data in web-apps Jan 08 06:27:24 right? Jan 08 06:27:26 We don't much care about cellular platforms Jan 08 06:27:29 well. he said "nokia..." Jan 08 06:27:35 MaceN800: Jan 08 06:27:43 and android is more a portable platform Jan 08 06:27:48 the cell part is more of a bonus Jan 08 06:27:56 the n900 will have a built in utms modem Jan 08 06:28:01 eneralAntilles> There'll be fanfare and media coverage when the RX-51's out. Jan 08 06:28:06 so does that make maemo a cell platform too? Jan 08 06:28:11 any Jan 08 06:28:11 rx-51 ? is that linux based ? Jan 08 06:28:12 any Jan 08 06:28:15 platform Jan 08 06:28:27 that is based upon transferring private data to a 'free' service Jan 08 06:28:34 LinuxCode, RX-51 is the next tablet Jan 08 06:28:38 using OMAP3 Jan 08 06:28:42 is a total-information-awareness trojan Jan 08 06:28:46 We don't know that it'll be called "N900" Jan 08 06:28:48 based on linux though ? Jan 08 06:28:54 But we do know it's current device code is RX-51 Jan 08 06:28:55 Er? Jan 08 06:28:56 pupnik, haha Jan 08 06:29:04 LinuxCode, it's the next Maemo tablet. . . . Jan 08 06:29:07 so as long as 'android' is based on google apps Jan 08 06:29:09 col Jan 08 06:29:10 fuck it Jan 08 06:29:15 I just had to check Jan 08 06:29:17 ;-p Jan 08 06:29:21 MaceN800, voice is cellular Jan 08 06:29:23 Data really isn't Jan 08 06:29:24 I was getting worried for a moment Jan 08 06:29:35 GeneralAntilles, because you can talk on it? Jan 08 06:29:45 GeneralAntilles, i take it thats the device ari was talking about Jan 08 06:29:46 yu can use skype on an n800... voice is always data nowadays Jan 08 06:29:56 skype is also a trojan Jan 08 06:30:01 Because the regulatory and carry requirements that apply to voice are different from the ones that apply to data-only. Jan 08 06:30:02 with 3g/umts ? Jan 08 06:30:02 heh Jan 08 06:30:12 i'm tellin you Jan 08 06:30:41 pupnik, i have yet to try the android flash on my n800 Jan 08 06:30:53 MaceN800, whatever you may believe it to be, or whatever it may actually be, it doesn't have a whole lot to do with what carriers and regulatory industries believe it to be. :) Jan 08 06:30:54 since it is rather immature Jan 08 06:31:01 and cellular is a different formfactor Jan 08 06:31:12 heh Jan 08 06:31:19 you're just playing symantics Jan 08 06:31:38 android is not a "cellular" platform.. it is a portable platform Jan 08 06:31:48 just as palm used to be.. then it moved onto phones Jan 08 06:32:33 yeah well the time is coming Jan 08 06:32:41 when we will need communication Jan 08 06:32:54 store-and-forward bluetooth fidonet Jan 08 06:32:58 understand, fuckers? Jan 08 06:33:00 i'm just saying that nokia's software is rather dated Jan 08 06:33:48 pupnik, you drunk ? Jan 08 06:34:25 store and forward, fucker Jan 08 06:34:55 lol Jan 08 06:35:19 * LinuxCode takes that as a yes Jan 08 06:35:44 and you are what, 27 years old? Jan 08 06:36:04 is that even relevant ? Jan 08 06:36:16 i want to know how close my guess is Jan 08 06:36:26 hm Jan 08 06:37:10 there is a point to open-source Jan 08 06:37:14 in case you haven't noticed Jan 08 06:37:36 bitch-ass consumer titsucker Jan 08 06:38:40 i dont think you will find standard consumers here Jan 08 06:38:52 I also dont think standard consumers get a N810 tbh Jan 08 06:38:58 wish they would Jan 08 06:39:04 but they are fucking apes Jan 08 06:39:10 maybe Jan 08 06:39:17 but there is hope Jan 08 06:39:24 consumers are buying eepcs Jan 08 06:39:29 thats a first step Jan 08 06:39:44 good point Jan 08 06:39:47 to make people realize there is more than MS Jan 08 06:42:04 /wget nice woman Jan 08 06:49:19 404 not found Jan 08 06:53:52 it is if he needs someone to buy him more beer Jan 08 08:30:58 moo all Jan 08 08:40:33 Morning, all Jan 08 08:47:41 Bah, the Diablo reference manual being all PDFs makes it impossible to quickly find, and then link to, a specific part of maemo (e.g. alarmd) to give out to people Jan 08 09:11:46 hi Jan 08 09:17:44 hmm, looking at the CES coverage it seems as if the economy is still going at full tilt... Jan 08 09:37:12 ~curse spamassassin for breaking the lists _again_ Jan 08 09:37:13 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, spamassassin for breaking the lists _again_ ! Jan 08 09:38:49 t_s_o: Don't worry, the next time they will all be showing heated soup caps and electric blankets =) Jan 08 09:38:58 s/caps/cups/ hm Jan 08 09:39:19 time will tell i guess ;) Jan 08 09:40:20 t_s_o: On the other hands, there is LHC! Jan 08 09:40:23 So maybe not Jan 08 09:40:31 ... Jan 08 09:44:06 morning Jan 08 10:09:49 X-Fade: any news on the meeting log? :) Jan 08 10:11:29 Stskeeps: I'll have to step out for 10 minutes, but after that I will upload it. Jan 08 10:11:36 alright, thanks :) Jan 08 10:11:46 (much appreciated) Jan 08 10:27:54 gulp Jan 08 10:29:33 morning lcuk Jan 08 10:34:12 Hello folks. Jan 08 10:34:34 I want one of those TI beagle boards + DLP Pico projectors :) Jan 08 10:34:34 morning Jan 08 10:34:38 hehe Jan 08 10:34:55 beagleboard is cute, but it had a tendancy to bring out the worst in my sd cards Jan 08 10:35:02 alterego: I can confirm that this combination is a nice toy. Jan 08 10:35:09 It's strange, that I was predicting devices would have the hardware we have _now_ about 10 years ago :) Jan 08 10:35:16 florian: :P Jan 08 10:35:42 florian: Did you get the TI devkit? Or separately? The projectors cost £250 on their own. Jan 08 10:36:05 * florian currently tests if latest kernels do what I need Jan 08 10:36:37 OMAP3 kernel? Jan 08 10:36:46 alterego: no i had the board already but not much time to do somethign useful with it Jan 08 10:36:52 alterego: yes Jan 08 10:36:55 Cool, Jan 08 10:37:13 I plan on building a 3D DVB-T PVR Jan 08 10:37:48 I want to do things like cover-flow with TV channels :) Jan 08 10:38:00 I'll need another DVB tuner dongle (making 2) Jan 08 10:38:17 I've already starting writing the code. Jan 08 10:40:26 alterego: nice Jan 08 10:40:56 Stskeeps: http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2009-01-07.html Jan 08 10:41:51 thanks! :) Jan 08 10:43:16 alterego: don't get sidetracked here :) Jan 08 10:43:36 I have plenty of time to go around :P Jan 08 10:44:53 mornin Stskeeps Jan 08 10:45:26 Xterm on my n810 is showing dark grey as black. Is there a fix or a workaround? Jan 08 10:46:13 Clean the screen? :) Jan 08 10:47:02 aleksiL_: Menu->Tools->Settings (Background Colour) Jan 08 10:47:11 increase brightness Jan 08 10:47:23 Tried both. Jan 08 10:47:35 Have you tried turning the device off and on? Jan 08 10:47:58 I've never seen this happen without someone changing the desktop background. Maybe you should submit a bug report. Jan 08 10:48:21 alterego: there's a bugfix in libvte for this, i believe Jan 08 10:48:28 er Jan 08 10:48:30 aleksiL_: Jan 08 10:48:31 Ah Jan 08 10:55:13 Stskeeps, how do I install it? Jan 08 10:56:15 building it from osso-xterm trunk i think Jan 08 11:01:55 And how do I do that? :) Jan 08 11:05:16 two ways. prodding osso-xterm developers or grabbing diablo SDK and grabbing the svn trunk inside and dpkg-buildpackage it :P Jan 08 11:09:37 The only tinkering I've done so far is following step-by-step guides to resolve specific issues. Where could I find a newbie-friendly introduction to this stuff? Jan 08 11:16:02 morning Jan 08 11:16:21 lo lardman Jan 08 11:16:41 ah, need to email the council don't I Jan 08 11:16:54 speaking of which, I've not seen any other emails either Jan 08 11:21:20 lardman's girlfriend is cute Jan 08 11:21:35 random comment of the day? Jan 08 11:21:37 :) Jan 08 11:21:50 but thanks Jan 08 11:22:00 Hah Jan 08 11:22:01 she has good taste Jan 08 11:22:16 well that's debatable hey? :) Jan 08 11:22:20 Did you just say his girlfriend tastes nice? Jan 08 11:22:30 * alterego chuckles. Jan 08 11:22:44 * lardman sees we've already started down the slippery slope.... Jan 08 11:22:48 no. it was just nice to meet him Jan 08 11:22:50 pupnik, that wasnt a picture of lardmans girlfriend i sent you - it was a picture of lardman in his girlfriends dress Jan 08 11:22:52 and her Jan 08 11:23:00 Hahg Jan 08 11:23:21 lcuk: oi! I hope you've fed Jake at some point, is he still reving the Citroen to melt it? ;) Jan 08 11:23:33 :D ive solved problem :D:D:D:D:D Jan 08 11:23:38 it melted but still failed Jan 08 11:23:50 still the highlight of berlin (or lowlight) Jan 08 11:23:55 was getting lost with lcuk Jan 08 11:24:00 so i had an epic battle with the fuse box and battery stuff Jan 08 11:24:02 "haven't we been here before"? Jan 08 11:24:27 pupnik & lcuk: lol Jan 08 11:24:37 lcuk, yeah, electrical stuff is no fun Jan 08 11:24:40 we did that too a couple of times Jan 08 11:25:39 no, wait. highlight was the beer garden Jan 08 11:25:52 or rather the beer therein :) Jan 08 11:25:52 in that park place Jan 08 11:26:36 it was just awesome Jan 08 11:26:50 i was like, overhearing drunken conversations by other people Jan 08 11:26:55 that i wanted to hear Jan 08 11:26:56 morning johnx Jan 08 11:27:07 unlike the typical bar situation Jan 08 11:27:18 mornin Stskeeps Jan 08 11:27:21 it was like 'wait what r u talkin bout' Jan 08 11:27:39 man Jan 08 11:28:09 johnx, were you at linuxtag? Jan 08 11:28:33 nope. where will it be this year? Jan 08 11:28:37 yes, beer garden was fun, getting lost was fun(ish) Jan 08 11:28:50 johnx: somewhere with beer Jan 08 11:28:55 :) Jan 08 11:29:12 woo! linuxtag at my apartment Jan 08 11:29:40 lardman, i wanna get down to london sometime in the next few weeks, fancy a beer? (plus anyone else if we can arrange proper times) Jan 08 11:30:20 (ps, typical daytime i keep having to vanish) Jan 08 11:30:59 lcuk: I'm pretty busy atm I'm afraid, not sure I'll be making it to London for a while Jan 08 11:31:16 same here :P Jan 08 11:31:26 give qwerty12_N800 a shout when you're there though Jan 08 11:31:30 johnx: :D Jan 08 11:32:12 lol yeah i forgot you werent that close Jan 08 11:32:28 bloody Northerners! ;) Jan 08 11:32:47 well london is practically commutable for you Jan 08 11:32:55 lardman, How long is it by train to London? Jan 08 11:32:57 yeah, 1hr40 or so Jan 08 11:33:06 pssh, that's nothing Jan 08 11:33:07 +tube after that Jan 08 11:33:19 Manchester to London can't be much longer than that Jan 08 11:33:59 at least 3 days hiking Jan 08 11:34:33 we dont have them new fangled iron horses here yet Jan 08 11:34:48 or they freeze due to the subarctic conditions ;) Jan 08 11:35:14 I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power Jan 08 11:35:22 yeah, and its no fun pouring water from a bottle on your window at 70mph! Jan 08 11:35:34 i am aware that this is not quite the correct channel, but does anyone know when the nokia n97 will be released? Jan 08 11:35:40 infobot: why did you suddenly pipe up? Jan 08 11:35:40 I did *WHAT*?! Jan 08 11:35:45 RichiH: next summer Jan 08 11:35:50 lardman: because i joine Jan 08 11:35:51 d Jan 08 11:35:57 glass: bleh :( Jan 08 11:36:02 ah, you're obviously special :) Jan 08 11:36:05 i thought they released it? Jan 08 11:36:12 or was that just showboating? Jan 08 11:36:16 lcuk: announced != relased Jan 08 11:36:16 they had a pre-launch iirc Jan 08 11:36:17 lardman: historic reasons Jan 08 11:36:28 RichiH: no worries, just wondering Jan 08 11:36:34 bbl Jan 08 11:36:42 lcuk: they generally announce tech flagships way ahead of release Jan 08 11:37:01 hmm, where's the announce on the n900... Jan 08 11:37:10 lcuk: other phone manufs do the same.. at least nokia mostly releases those tech flagships Jan 08 11:37:17 urgh Jan 08 11:37:17 a n900 has been announced? Jan 08 11:37:21 meant lardman Jan 08 11:37:27 atm, i am kinda waiting for the pandora Jan 08 11:37:35 RichiH: not really, other than with info from the next SDK Jan 08 11:37:51 RichiH: more of waiting than kinda ;) Jan 08 11:38:40 lardman: don't tell anyone, but they will start shipping in feb at the latest Jan 08 11:38:50 hmm Jan 08 11:38:56 (tell anyone you like :p ) Jan 08 11:39:24 but yah, if i am lucky, i might be able to take a full prototype or even one of the first finished ones to fosdem Jan 08 11:39:47 I'm still torn, will probably get one anyway Jan 08 11:39:55 i _will_ bring a devboard for the embedian people to play with Jan 08 11:40:17 RichiH: are you involved in the project? Jan 08 11:40:43 lardman: no, but i know one of the lead devs Jan 08 11:40:48 ok Jan 08 11:41:04 * RichiH wonders when maemo will run on the pandora ;) Jan 08 11:41:11 mer prolly will very easy. Jan 08 11:41:22 Stskeeps: i suspect so, as well Jan 08 11:41:39 RichiH, working on it ... Jan 08 11:41:45 if anyone will be at fosdem, i could poke ED about a second devboard Jan 08 11:41:53 and since it works on x86 already.. :P Jan 08 11:42:00 johnx: ah. do you have a devbboard? Jan 08 11:42:03 .. and a zaurus Jan 08 11:42:05 Stskeeps: it's arm Jan 08 11:42:08 i know Jan 08 11:42:51 Feb 2010? Jan 08 11:42:57 RichiH, nope, but if the pandora boots ubuntu and has an x server, then maemo on mer is easy Jan 08 11:43:46 johnx: it runs angstroem Jan 08 11:44:01 but gentoo, debian & ubuntu are being worked on, as well Jan 08 11:44:26 exactly :) Jan 08 11:48:00 so end of feb is the current shipping prediction then? Jan 08 11:48:13 I'd bet march on the safe side Jan 08 11:48:33 and I hope it's in march or I'll need to have them ship to a different address (!) Jan 08 11:48:39 yeah, that was my prediction Jan 08 11:48:55 I hope it's December, no wait, that's already gone Jan 08 11:48:58 did you see the "mini-roadmap" post Jan 08 11:49:05 yep Jan 08 11:49:17 it looked awfully optimistic to make a feb shipping date Jan 08 11:49:27 yeah Jan 08 11:49:46 and if it is out in feb I'll be pleasantly proven wrong :) Jan 08 11:51:04 * lardman wonders what other cool hw will be about in March Jan 08 11:52:22 well, if CES is anything to go by: a couple more crappy MIDs and a decent atom-based netbook from HP Jan 08 11:53:15 the ARM-based and MIPS-based netbooks seem to be either targeted at Asian countries (not Japan either...) or coming out late this year Jan 08 11:53:38 hmm, not too exciting then Jan 08 11:53:49 yeah, I'm not too worried :) Jan 08 11:53:54 hey, is Nokia at CES? Jan 08 11:54:14 peter@marketing said maemo wasn't, at least Jan 08 11:54:23 bah Jan 08 11:54:36 there's some android-based tablet concept it seems making the rounds Jan 08 11:55:01 but with a 480x320 screen. thoroughly "meh" in terms of a target for Maemo Jan 08 11:55:01 lardman: end of jan is the earliest, end of feb the latest starting date Jan 08 11:55:32 "latest"? after that they'll just cancel the project or something? Jan 08 11:55:39 nah Jan 08 11:55:49 but from what i gather of internal predictions Jan 08 11:55:56 what roadmap post, btw? Jan 08 11:56:12 was mentioned on: http://openpandora.wordpress.com/ Jan 08 11:56:14 johnx: Anything Atom-based is going to be crappy performance wise Jan 08 11:56:45 RST38h, yeah, but $330 isn't a bad price for crappy performance :) Jan 08 11:56:46 Same goes for the MIPS based devices. Just had a chance to compare similarly specced ARM and MIPS boards and MIPS sucks moose balls Jan 08 11:57:07 johnx: "I am not rich enough to buy crappy goods" (C)unknown Jan 08 11:57:09 now, get me a PPC based netbook and I'd be interested... Jan 08 11:57:40 johnx: Would you like refridgeration with that? ;) Jan 08 11:57:54 lcuk: if you're in London post-26th January (back to work after paternity), give me a shout Jan 08 11:58:03 I think freescale does a low-power 603e Jan 08 11:58:28 the new sony gadget is nice Jan 08 11:58:35 but kinda expensive Jan 08 11:58:39 The Vaio-P? Jan 08 11:58:43 yeah, you pay a lot for the form factor Jan 08 11:59:05 I was thinking "$900" isn't much, but then remembered that GBP's crashed recently, and so $900 != 450GBP Jan 08 11:59:27 wonder what they want in JPY... Jan 08 12:00:06 but, I had a chance to do another hands-on with that HP mini-note 2133 and mini 1000...those are just about perfect in every respect for me Jan 08 12:00:11 http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/200901081193/sony-vaio-p-series-will-cost-969-in-uk.html Jan 08 12:00:13 yow! Jan 08 12:00:21 Ouch Jan 08 12:00:34 oh wow...you guys got burned Jan 08 12:01:15 Jaffa: did your baby get delivered yet btw? Jan 08 12:01:24 hmm, dimensions always in inches, /me looks for an Imperial ruler Jan 08 12:01:47 30cm -> 12in Jan 08 12:02:05 Actually 12in = 30.5cm Jan 08 12:02:11 Stskeeps: yeah, Kathryn Flegg was born 12:32pm yesterday, weighing 7lbs 11oz, 53cm long and looks like: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=72898&l=ad8cc&id=618601477 Jan 08 12:02:12 roughly Jan 08 12:02:29 grats Jaffa! Jan 08 12:02:42 ta Jan 08 12:02:47 How many kilos in 7lb11oz? Jan 08 12:02:57 Interesting: http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/200901081192/download-windows-7-for-free-from-tomorrow.html Jan 08 12:02:58 3.5 about? Jan 08 12:02:58 Use google.. Jan 08 12:03:08 dneary: no idea, babies are always measured imperially in the UK Jan 08 12:03:13 johnx: I know, but then I have to use arithmetic to work out how large it is, rather than just looking at my ruler Jan 08 12:03:24 3.487kg Jan 08 12:03:28 Jaffa: What's 53cm in metric, then? Jan 08 12:03:44 lardman, sizeeasy.com or ... learn both systems :P Jan 08 12:03:49 Babies' weights, sorry Jan 08 12:03:56 Jaffa: My guesstimate was pretty close, then :) Jan 08 12:04:03 aye Jan 08 12:04:39 Jaffa: woo, congratulations :) Jan 08 12:04:42 The guess was from the 500g pots of jam, which were 1lb pots with "10% extra free!" when I was a kid Jan 08 12:05:03 So 7lb +10% = 3500g Jan 08 12:05:25 Jaffa: yes, congrats Jan 08 12:05:37 And 10% of 7lb is roughly 0.7*15 Jan 08 12:06:04 Or 10.5oz Jan 08 12:06:28 (anywayn, that's that for the anecdote of how I do imperial weight to kgs) Jan 08 12:06:56 I've found imperial volume to metric much harder - esp. for fl. oz. and US gallons Jan 08 12:07:09 Because we never used those in Ireland Jan 08 12:07:27 I know 8 pints is a gallon in Ireland, which makes about 4.5l Jan 08 12:07:51 And I know the difference between a half litre and a pint (68ml) Jan 08 12:08:04 But I think US gallons are smaller, or something Jan 08 12:08:08 Or bigger Jan 08 12:08:45 they;re smaller Jan 08 12:09:12 Jan 08 12:09:12 1 US gallon = 3.78541178 litres Jan 08 12:09:18 according to Google Jan 08 12:10:03 Ah - there's the difference Jan 08 12:10:31 so US mpg figures aren't quite as dire as they seem Jan 08 12:11:24 A US fl.oz. is bigger than a British fl.oz., but there are 16 US fl.oz. in a US pint (473ml) and 20 British fl.oz. in a British mint (568ml) Jan 08 12:11:58 lardman: It still makes me want to slap US people around the place when they complain about gas at $3 a gallon Jan 08 12:12:09 yeah, absolutely :) Jan 08 12:12:52 When in France we were paying €1.35 a litre, or $1.83, or $6.40 a gallon Jan 08 12:13:34 we're down in the 90s now (p/l) Jan 08 12:13:37 dneary, but you have a public transportation system that works Jan 08 12:13:47 Barely Jan 08 12:13:51 jaffa - congratulations on giving birth to a new tangerine :D and when i know for certain when im coming ill give you and others a shout Jan 08 12:13:52 When they went up to $4 a gallon, we were at €1.50 a litre Jan 08 12:13:59 certainly can't say it works in the UK Jan 08 12:14:23 $7 a gallon Jan 08 12:14:54 The difference is, a 33% increase in US gas prices equals an 18% increase in French petrol prices Jan 08 12:15:05 Because it's over 50% tax in France Jan 08 12:15:25 And we're down to under a euro for diesel here, about €1.05 for petrol Jan 08 12:16:16 that is all for the good of the environment! rejoice! Jan 08 12:20:20 RST38h, did you catch the pics and videos of those cortex-a8 netbooks in action? http://www.notebooks.com/2009/01/07/new-generation-of-netbooks-199-and-299-eight-hour-battery-sexy-design/ Jan 08 12:20:36 checking Jan 08 12:21:29 johnx: Cool! Are these going on sale at BestBuy? Jan 08 12:21:43 not yet it seems :/ Jan 08 12:21:54 Do they run MS Word? Jan 08 12:22:01 har har Jan 08 12:22:06 Thought so. Jan 08 12:22:16 If it looks like a laptop, it is supposed to run MS Word. Jan 08 12:22:56 not reason it wouldn't run open office of course. it'd be fine for kids Jan 08 12:23:09 and actually I'd expect them to show up at k-mart or target or walmart instead of best-buy Jan 08 12:23:19 kids hate it (esp in uk) they are taught with office Jan 08 12:24:07 hey, kid, would you like a laptop to check facebook and lolcats (but open office instead of word) or are would you like to not have a laptop? Jan 08 12:24:07 johnx: What is open office? I dunno how to use it and my teacher can't open my homework afterwarss Jan 08 12:24:20 johnx: He wouldn't Jan 08 12:24:25 that's BS Jan 08 12:24:43 johnx: It is not. I may not necessarily agree with this, but this is how things are. Jan 08 12:24:48 johnx, luke uses nokia for facebook etc, but for homework office is whats expected Jan 08 12:24:56 RST38h, adults are one thing, kids are another Jan 08 12:25:03 i got shouted at when i offered open office (ok, i told him it was linux as well) Jan 08 12:25:03 johnx: same crap Jan 08 12:25:24 johnx: and you can't imagine how mean those "educators" are nowadays Jan 08 12:25:28 admittedly i don't like OO either, but that's cos when I used it and recommended it to people, it was -very- unstable :P Jan 08 12:25:45 RST38h, in a choice between having a computer and not having a computer, a kid is not going to turn down a computer Jan 08 12:25:58 yes, they are Jan 08 12:26:24 its like offering a kid a ps-one when really they wanted an x-box Jan 08 12:26:37 i find it curious how many people accepted Works instead of office back then Jan 08 12:26:41 MUCH more opinionated Jan 08 12:26:48 it was microsoft Jan 08 12:26:49 and how everyone says they need Word Jan 08 12:26:52 (now) Jan 08 12:27:11 * lcuk remembers a time before office Jan 08 12:27:22 Stskeeps, probably because MS poisoned the well by making Works and Word not place nice. now they know they can't trust anything but Word Jan 08 12:28:02 lcuk, I still hold that it's different with computers than it is with game systems. A PS1 doesn't have Halo, but this has facebook and AIM Jan 08 12:29:34 and for kids they probably care about how it looks more than what it's running, provided you get them at a young enough age Jan 08 12:29:55 johnx, homework is a big factor, i was moaned at because i didnt have the same version of office.. Jan 08 12:30:00 i was actually biased towards clarisworks, scaringily Jan 08 12:30:01 on mac Jan 08 12:30:03 from school Jan 08 12:30:24 lcuk, yeah, that has always been a big thing :/ *sigh* Jan 08 12:30:26 office2000 was not what he was used to Jan 08 12:31:34 MS still manages to strong-arm more great formats on the masses Jan 08 12:32:05 johnx: heh, we actually have state accepting ODF and all that crap now.. Jan 08 12:32:13 but next to noone sends it. Everyone sends PDF instead. Jan 08 12:32:33 Jaffa Jr#1 only cares if his laptop runs Firefox so it can get to BBC Redux & Cbeebies website Jan 08 12:32:34 I accept PDF...grudgingly Jan 08 12:32:34 :D i like it when people use .doc format to send screenshots :D Jan 08 12:33:06 but what I'm really not amused by is exFAT for SDXC :| Jan 08 12:33:06 * Stskeeps was kinda sold to his gf when she ran opera instead of IE and had other sane software choices. Jan 08 12:33:20 * lcuk still uses pdf thingy v5 Jan 08 12:33:31 it asks me to upgrade often Jan 08 12:33:34 my wife got a new laptop running vista and she's already complaining about missing ubuntu :) Jan 08 12:33:53 yeah, its a shame you cant let her copy yours Jan 08 12:34:17 lcuk, you might want to. apparently there are several security holes in old version of Adobe PDF reader Jan 08 12:34:24 them linux guys really need to lower their prices Jan 08 12:34:32 johnx: the problem of not having a computer rarely arises in western world Jan 08 12:34:36 Morning Jan 08 12:34:39 its ok johnx, i dont read anything malicious Jan 08 12:34:51 morning Andrewfblack Jan 08 12:36:19 RST38h, not having a computer in the household and kids not having "their own" computer are a little different Jan 08 12:38:18 anyways, thought you'd get a kick out of the ARM netbooks. I wasn't really commenting on their retail viability in western markets...more from a technical POV Jan 08 12:38:54 put some green colors on it and claim it isn't as power hungry, and that'd sell a lot.. Jan 08 12:39:06 green colour screen? Jan 08 12:39:17 johnx: you can get a used computer for your kids for peanuts Jan 08 12:39:33 johnx: way less than $400 for a netbook that does not run Office Jan 08 12:39:44 some kids would rather have the peanuts Jan 08 12:39:46 RST38h, $200... Jan 08 12:39:55 johnx: yes, about that much, with a monitor Jan 08 12:40:30 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1108673/Handbag-laptops-100-sold-Next-February.html Jan 08 12:40:32 johnx: The reason why you wouldn't is to keep your kids from getting addicted to WoW or Facebook or whatever Jan 08 12:40:33 eh. like I said...not commenting on commercial viability. I was thinking of one for myself Jan 08 12:40:42 Ah Jan 08 12:41:08 Consider getting a real light subnotebook then :) Jan 08 12:41:20 I thought you might be interested in seeing that they have working prototypes since you seem to be some what interested in non-x86 hardware :P Jan 08 12:41:38 i think if i have a kid and he reaches 6 years of age, or whatever, i'd give him a computer he'd have to hack on to get things working Jan 08 12:41:41 did wonders for me Jan 08 12:41:44 .. provided he shows same tendancies Jan 08 12:42:01 johnx: I had no doubts they would have working prototypes Jan 08 12:42:07 those handbag laptops look more like the size Jan 08 12:42:13 and yes, my potential offspring will likely end up with linux computers unless they 1) really need it for school or 2) feel the need to buy themselves a windows license Jan 08 12:42:18 Sts: A kid nowadays wouldn't hack Jan 08 12:42:29 Sts: Kids have changed somewhat Jan 08 12:43:00 johnx: What I have doubts about if whether anyone needs these prototypes Jan 08 12:43:01 RST38h, I don't buy it. there's hackers in every generation...or did you forget some of the people on here? Jan 08 12:43:25 what johnx said.. even my nephew has been hacking about since he was 13 Jan 08 12:43:34 johnx: Yes, what I mean is there are much fewer people interested in tinkering with each generation Jan 08 12:43:46 johnx: It kinda went out of fashion Jan 08 12:44:10 ha. it was never in fashion unless I missed something Jan 08 12:44:43 johnx: Well, you had sizable number of kids tinkering, it was the age of science, space exploration etc Jan 08 12:45:02 johnx: We live in the age of Britney Spears now. Jan 08 12:45:13 lol: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798#c24 Jan 08 12:45:13 my general reaction to "kids are different nowadays" is to call BS Jan 08 12:45:24 ^ Jan 08 12:45:33 johnx: Well, I taught kids back in 1998-1999 Jan 08 12:45:42 johnx, what's actually meant by that is "I'm different nowadays" ;) Jan 08 12:45:57 johnx: And I can tell you for sure (same as a lot of instructors) that they are different Jan 08 12:46:28 GeneralAntilles: dear god @ bug Jan 08 12:46:48 RST38h, did you teach kids 40 years ago? If not, it's comparing apples and oranges Jan 08 12:47:18 comparing how you remember your own childhood to how you perceive other children's lives now Jan 08 12:47:44 johnx: I know people who taught kids 10-30 years ago Jan 08 12:47:44 GeneralAntilles: akamai can really fuck up in surprising ways at times though Jan 08 12:48:02 Stskeeps, yeah, unfun, but the ultimatums are always exciting. Jan 08 12:48:06 johnx: I remember myself and other students Jan 08 12:48:32 RST38h, apples, meet oranges. Jan 08 12:48:44 GeneralAntilles: Heh, yeah. Had to laugh when that ended up in my mailbox. Jan 08 12:48:45 GeneralAntilles: the fucky part is this comment is not even by someone participating in the bug report Jan 08 12:48:47 Whatever you remember, your snapshot of both experiences is so small as to be meaningless when generalized to "kids these days" Jan 08 12:49:13 GeneralAntilles: We've asked akamai to check it out btw. Jan 08 12:49:13 LUNCHTIME! Jan 08 12:49:17 anyways I have a bash script to coral, since the other kids aren't hacking on it for me Jan 08 12:49:18 Anecdotes aren't particularly useful most of the time. Jan 08 12:49:23 General: In fact, my experience applies specifically to kids stufying computers Jan 08 12:49:24 Stskeeps: He filed a duplicate bug.. Jan 08 12:49:27 ah Jan 08 12:49:48 General: And it is not anecdotal, as we are talkibg about several dozens of students Jan 08 12:50:17 General: + opinions from people who taught more students over longer periods of time than myself Jan 08 12:50:32 Whose own experiences are also limited. Jan 08 12:50:49 Anyway, you clearly believe what you believe, and it's not my goal to convince you otherwise. Jan 08 12:51:01 ^ Jan 08 12:51:31 X-Fade: who should i contact btw if i have some questions on how the git on garage will be implemented (for planning purposes)? Jan 08 12:52:04 Stskeeps: ferenc Jan 08 12:52:09 alright Jan 08 12:52:18 Stskeeps: ferenc @ maemo Jan 08 12:52:40 * GeneralAntilles should probably update the wiki. Jan 08 12:52:40 (mostly because my talk item from 9th dec went mostly ignored :P) Jan 08 12:52:40 He's implementing it now.. Jan 08 12:54:01 Symbian Foundation is hiring =) Jan 08 12:54:15 it's mostly a simple question of if a project can have only one git repository, or multiple :) Jan 08 12:56:18 Stskeeps, your projects don't get any. :P Jan 08 12:56:25 :( Jan 08 12:56:34 I like the ideas about the revised development portal. Jan 08 12:56:36 Everybody else can have as many as they want, though. Jan 08 12:56:43 Stskeeps: Your project can already request a repo, that is enabled in garage now.. Jan 08 12:56:54 I'm constantly faffing around trying to find platform API's. Jan 08 12:56:57 But for funky configurations you need to ask ferenc. Jan 08 12:57:02 I end up just using google .. Jan 08 12:57:04 *nod* Jan 08 12:57:38 alterego, yeah, Nokia's documentation on maemo.org is a mess. :/ Jan 08 12:58:01 Maybe Maemo@Forum Nokia will help with that. Jan 08 12:58:06 And not going to become better any time soon Jan 08 12:58:20 Hopefully, though the most recent maemo publication is filed under S60 O_O Jan 08 12:58:50 maemo planet _really_ needs fixing. It's be borked since it's existed. Jan 08 12:59:04 alterego: even using Google, I can't find the most up-to-date stuff. Jan 08 12:59:12 Well, it'll be going live when maemo.nokia.com goes live. Jan 08 12:59:16 And the 4.1 stuff's all PDFs! Lovely to print out, a bastard to search Jan 08 12:59:20 Jaffa: yes, that's when I manually edit the uri ;) Jan 08 12:59:31 Heh Jan 08 12:59:53 Will maemo.nokia.com be replacing maemo.org? Jan 08 12:59:54 Jaffa: The new documentation import is almost ready. After that you also have the html available. Jan 08 12:59:58 alterego, no. Jan 08 13:00:11 Interesting, so what's the reasoning behind two sites? Jan 08 13:00:14 maemo.org is the community website Jan 08 13:00:25 Maemo@Forum Nokia is for commercial Maemo devs Jan 08 13:00:32 Okay Jan 08 13:00:34 Interesting. Jan 08 13:00:36 maemo.nokia.com is for normal users and perspective users Jan 08 13:00:54 Mostly what it accomplishes is freeing maemo.org from any obligations to Nokia. Jan 08 13:01:02 Cool, Jan 08 13:01:08 (I think) :) Jan 08 13:01:12 GeneralAntilles: have we finished the review, I've not got any emails? Jan 08 13:01:18 alterego: very cool Jan 08 13:01:23 lardman, none have been sent yet. Jan 08 13:01:28 *cough* Jan 08 13:01:29 GeneralAntilles: I thought I was running late (just remembered last night) Jan 08 13:01:42 lardman: You are. But so is everyone else :) Jan 08 13:01:47 * lardman heads off to get some lunch & look through the bits & bobs Jan 08 13:01:49 Anyone seen etrunko recently? Jan 08 13:01:52 ~seen etrunko Jan 08 13:01:54 etrunko is currently on #maemo (40m 52s), last said: 'hi GAN800 GAN800 GeneralAntilles'. Jan 08 13:02:05 So, he's not dead :_) Jan 08 13:02:34 Wonder if he's back from vacation yet Jan 08 13:03:23 Iguess czr has dropped out of the maemo community. Jan 08 13:03:38 alterego, he dropped by a few months ago, I think. Jan 08 13:03:48 But, yeah, he kinda disappeared like you. ::P Jan 08 13:04:17 Cool. It'd be nice to chat with him. Don't know what he's doing now his contract ended with Nokia Jan 08 13:05:06 s/now/since/ Jan 08 13:05:07 alterego meant: Cool. It'd be nice to chat with him. Don't ksince what he's doing now his contract ended with Nokia Jan 08 13:05:46 * GeneralAntilles goes back to bed now. Jan 08 13:05:52 That is a rather annoying feature of infobot. I can't believe it's survived Jan 08 13:06:19 Well, we did kill _Monkey Jan 08 13:06:24 :) Jan 08 13:06:25 s/^/not annoying. it's useful sometimes... Jan 08 13:07:09 just remember to leave off the last / if you don't want infobot to pick it up Jan 08 13:07:35 Okay Jan 08 13:15:37 oh god Jan 08 13:15:39 tetrinet for maemo Jan 08 13:15:48 should .. not.. get.. addicted.. again Jan 08 13:15:55 ahaha...dangerous Jan 08 13:16:15 i spent so many years in my teens on that game Jan 08 13:16:38 ut2k4 was my time-sink, but I've been clean for a couple years Jan 08 13:18:10 wtf @ git abilities Jan 08 13:18:18 svn can checkout a subdirectory in a repository Jan 08 13:18:20 git can't Jan 08 13:18:43 really? bzr can get just a subdir, right? Jan 08 13:18:51 what's the big reason to go git vs bzr? Jan 08 13:19:08 getting closer to maemo.org Jan 08 13:19:23 bzr has easy "create new repository" :P Jan 08 13:19:26 doesn't maemo.org use SVN? Jan 08 13:19:38 yeah, it does, but it will have git too soon Jan 08 13:20:02 distributed vcs or wtf it's called is good for contribution though Jan 08 13:20:53 I dunno what's driving the git move on maemo.org; Maemo Software seem to have started using it, but I suspect it's tool-envy/grass-is-greener/cool-buzzword stuff rather than any real pressing technical problem with svn Jan 08 13:21:09 It's not exactly like Maemo is a hub of decentralized development projects ;-) Jan 08 13:21:20 Jaffa: i can see good things for it really Jan 08 13:21:46 you're not forced to a certain vcs-determined workflow Jan 08 13:22:48 But git's so geared for Linus' Linux development, patch-oriented workflow (or was, last time I looked) Jan 08 13:23:20 yeah, but if you get away from the abstraction of svn, it's patch-oriented too :P Jan 08 13:23:26 Now svn's got merge tracking, the only thing a DVCS would give *me* on my variety of projects is local commits. Jan 08 13:23:37 Stskeeps: true Jan 08 13:25:06 Jaffa: git does (seem to) have merge tracking Jan 08 13:25:12 Jaffa: check `gitk` Jan 08 13:25:50 zeenix: oh, I'm sure it does - but lack of merge tracking was a big problem with svn for long running branches which are due for merge to the trunk at a later date. Jan 08 13:26:17 Jaffa: there are lots of problems with svn, lets not go there :) Jan 08 13:26:42 There are lots of problems with everything Jan 08 13:26:58 i think people who still ask `what's wrong with svn` have been living under a rock Jan 08 13:27:55 local commits are really useful. I like git more and more, even when the repository I'm working against is svn. Jan 08 13:28:17 git is much, much nicer, and I say that as someone who used SVN for 5 years before moving to git under a year ago Jan 08 13:28:49 git-rebase --interactive is also very powerful -- so you can rearrange and combine those local commits before pushing them upstream. Jan 08 13:28:50 fiar enough Jan 08 13:28:51 yeah, unfortunately the boring dudes who only work in their offices don't understand the value of local commits Jan 08 13:29:24 * jamey is a boring dude who does most of his work in his office but still likes local commits. :) Jan 08 13:29:30 And developers go off on some techno-wankery to push out new tools and changes to a stable system when there's been no community push for it. Jan 08 13:29:31 being able to create multiple copies of the repository for different patchsets is also useful Jan 08 13:29:44 (if branches aren't suitable) Jan 08 13:30:17 w00t: yeah, that's very useful Jan 08 13:30:56 has anyone here tried QGraphicsScene on the N810? Jan 08 13:31:16 zeenix: perhaps you should be careful about using phrases like "boring dudes" and "don't understand"; since I'm like jamey. Jan 08 13:31:17 also, git (or any DCVS i know of) doesn't stop you from having more or less the same workflow you had with svn if you still insist on sticking with old technology Jan 08 13:31:48 Jaffa: i didn't mean you or anyone in particular Jan 08 13:31:56 zeenix: yeah, you can use any workflow you like instead of being *forced* into one particular box Jan 08 13:32:07 Jaffa: you are not a boring dude if you are on this channel :) Jan 08 13:41:20 zeenix, hey, don't generalize! Just because I'm on this channel doesn't mean I'm not boring Jan 08 13:56:09 johnx: git update: one-repo per project (for now) but seems extensible to have /projects/projectname/reponame ass well Jan 08 13:56:13 -s Jan 08 13:56:32 and suggesting we contribute ideas to ggit project Jan 08 13:56:53 ok, /projects/mer/h-a-m ass it is! Jan 08 13:56:56 hehe Jan 08 13:58:06 what is ggit? garage git? Jan 08 13:58:22 johnx: it wasn't a generalization, just my observation Jan 08 13:58:32 johnx: yeah, think so Jan 08 13:58:39 johnx: The actual git plugin for gforge.. Jan 08 13:58:47 johnx: Which Ferenc is developing. Jan 08 13:59:02 what kind of ideas are being solicited? Jan 08 13:59:17 johnx: multiple repos for projects and per-user repositories Jan 08 14:07:40 Stskeeps: I like both of those ... Jan 08 14:07:53 anyone play on github? Jan 08 14:11:13 r2d2rogers: i use github if thats what you mean Jan 08 14:11:38 r2d2rogers: usually to keep an up2date mirrors of my local branch for backup purposes Jan 08 14:11:46 s/branch/repo Jan 08 14:12:13 r2d2rogers: trying to get the mer stuff on maemo.org as it shows off a bit more ownership by the community :P Jan 08 14:12:43 Stskeeps: right, I was just thinking as far as a source of ideas for feature suggestions Jan 08 14:13:32 *nod* Jan 08 14:13:34 zeenix: nice, I'm still trying to get up to speed on a project to contribute to there, as I don't have many contacts that share my interest in git yet Jan 08 14:14:17 Jaffa, GeneralAntilles: hey Jan 08 14:15:52 It's alive! :) Jan 08 14:16:06 hi X-Fade Jan 08 14:16:12 happy new year everybody Jan 08 14:18:46 afternoon Meizirkki Jan 08 14:20:01 good afternoon Sts Jan 08 14:20:28 Maemopad :) Jan 08 14:20:40 Meizirkki: can you do me a favour and test if 'wifi-radar' package works on mer? Jan 08 14:20:47 okay Jan 08 14:20:55 the one from extras? Jan 08 14:21:19 its in ubuntu repository Jan 08 14:21:26 ok Jan 08 14:22:23 ~curse 5GB/month data limit Jan 08 14:22:24 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, 5GB/month data limit ! Jan 08 14:23:00 now thats a brain twister... Jan 08 14:23:29 Meizirkki: (it's a wifi applet thing and im pondering if it works "ok") Jan 08 14:23:42 t_s_o, a 5GB data cap can't be any worse at sys admin'ing than your average MCSE Jan 08 14:24:20 Stskeeps: yep, i first read wireless-info, that's why i asked about extras :P Jan 08 14:25:28 does wifi-radar include panel-applet? Jan 08 14:25:40 heh, i must admit, i ones took a course aimed at MSCE, but more or less bailed on it when the topic was more about setting up sales packages then actual admin work on windows servers... Jan 08 14:29:12 t_s_o, yeah, I took some part of it too, IIRC. Just kinda sat there and fiddled around on my zaurus, and helped my "lab partner" learn the stuff. The younger generation is more diligent than us though: http://www.switched.com/2008/12/24/9-year-old-girl-becomes-microsofts-youngest-employee/ Jan 08 14:30:17 isnt there a child labor law? :P Jan 08 14:30:34 I think she just got an MCSE, not actually a job Jan 08 14:30:51 MCSE certification that is Jan 08 14:30:58 i think the UN has something to say about child labor, yes, but they also have something to say about kids and educations... Jan 08 14:32:02 tso: it's evil to put kids through brainwashing^H^H^HMCSE anyhow :) Jan 08 14:33:53 heh, and other private or public educations are not brainwashing? Jan 08 14:35:38 ugh, sorry, i keep dipping into some kind of cynicism mixed with fatalism... Jan 08 14:36:02 I prefer to just dip into the ice cream :) Jan 08 14:36:11 probably hot cocoa tonight instead though Jan 08 14:36:16 ~lart lack of central heating Jan 08 14:36:16 * infobot DoSes lack of central heating Jan 08 14:36:21 mmm. ice cream Jan 08 14:36:48 hmm, DoS on the lack of something... Jan 08 14:36:49 ~lart mathematics Jan 08 14:36:49 * infobot dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on mathematics Jan 08 14:37:11 lardman++ infobot++ Jan 08 14:37:32 Stskeeps: first try: wifi-radar did not start using menu-item, i'll install terminal emulator to see if it gives some output Jan 08 14:38:00 osso-xterm yet? Jan 08 14:38:09 heh, kinda cool watching a thinkpad go into lockdown (probably with a encrypted drive) after its built in wwan system gets a text message from the owner Jan 08 14:38:13 Meizirkki: you might need to restart Jan 08 14:38:17 i think Jan 08 14:38:28 altho i suspect "experience" must be the number one buzzword these days... Jan 08 14:38:46 Stskeeps: i installed wifi-radar using chroot from maemo, so i did reboot Jan 08 14:38:51 k Jan 08 14:38:51 ~lart rotational symmetry and central points Jan 08 14:38:51 * infobot puts rotational symmetry and central points into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of rotational symmetry and central points's hair of Jan 08 14:39:06 much better Jan 08 14:39:20 writing an article as part of an exam is shite. :P Jan 08 14:40:08 mmm...programming exams. I do miss those Jan 08 14:40:57 hmm, I had to help someone with dyslexia read one of those, or at least be available Jan 08 14:41:19 Jaffa: Ping? Jan 08 14:41:40 another non-maemo question: any idea when the e72 will come out? Jan 08 14:41:58 RichiH: A non-maemo answer: No idea Jan 08 14:44:42 Stskeeps: Wifi-radar needs to be run as root, but i forgot to add myseft to sudoers, i can see it working when i get sudo access :P Jan 08 14:44:55 ok, let's see how it goes Jan 08 14:45:24 maybe being part of 'network' group or which one it was.. Jan 08 14:48:46 Stskeeps: not working :( Jan 08 14:48:54 i'll pastebin the output Jan 08 14:49:04 k Jan 08 14:52:07 http://pastebin.com/mae2dc67 Jan 08 14:52:52 lovely Jan 08 14:53:16 could adding to network group help? Jan 08 14:53:31 'wicd' is up next :P Jan 08 14:53:37 yes, groups that might help: plugdev, netdev Jan 08 14:54:04 yeah, try add to those two Jan 08 14:54:17 * johnx looks at error Jan 08 14:54:26 ...though in this case not sure if it will help Jan 08 14:54:32 yeah, but you never know Jan 08 14:54:38 bman claimed he used it Jan 08 14:54:44 yeah, that's what hildon-desktop taught me Jan 08 14:55:00 sure it might say "illegal instruction" but it probably just means I'm missing some icons Jan 08 14:55:04 i'll add groups and try both wifi-radar and wicd Jan 08 14:55:22 be sure to log out and in again after adding yourself to the groups Jan 08 14:55:25 remember to remove wifi radar first ;) Jan 08 14:55:36 Stskeeps: why? Jan 08 14:55:52 well when trying wicd, make sure wifi radar is gone :P Jan 08 14:56:04 ok Jan 08 14:59:36 i think i tried wicd once before (when i had deblet packages for wlan). it was giving same kind of output.. Jan 08 14:59:49 mm Jan 08 15:01:24 wifi-radar now complains something about gtk... Jan 08 15:02:14 ah. Jan 08 15:02:15 pygtk.. Jan 08 15:02:35 seeing pygtk problems in other ubuntu programs too Jan 08 15:02:40 yeah Jan 08 15:02:48 it isnt built for gtk 2.12 Jan 08 15:02:55 aaaah Jan 08 15:03:00 which was the issue i was having yesterday Jan 08 15:03:01 that would make a lot of sense Jan 08 15:04:24 it really wonders me why nm-applet doesnt work Jan 08 15:04:29 oh, maybe.. Jan 08 15:04:34 Meizirkki: you bored? Jan 08 15:04:54 do you want to be bored? Jan 08 15:04:59 just tell me what's in your mind :P Jan 08 15:05:12 Meizirkki: [15:52] yes, groups that might help: plugdev, netdev Jan 08 15:05:18 and then try network manager again Jan 08 15:05:21 ok Jan 08 15:05:31 i have to download nm... Jan 08 15:05:43 yeah, we should set up a donation found for your testing Jan 08 15:05:44 :P Jan 08 15:05:46 fund Jan 08 15:05:59 also might be worth trying it as root, just for fun Jan 08 15:06:17 true, it acted weird on root too Jan 08 15:06:20 i thin Jan 08 15:06:21 k Jan 08 15:06:40 * johnx sees what happens when he runs first-boot-wizard... Jan 08 15:06:47 hehe, i'm just 14. This is fun, no need for money :P Jan 08 15:07:26 ! Jan 08 15:07:41 when i start wicd as root it gives me this: Jan 08 15:07:50 /var/run/wicd/wicd.pid Jan 08 15:08:07 i open that file, there is only: 2129 Jan 08 15:08:14 Meizirkki: yeah, except you wont be able to get pygtk to work :P Jan 08 15:08:28 so you cant actually talk to it Jan 08 15:08:37 ok Jan 08 15:08:39 moving to nm-applet... Jan 08 15:10:43 woo! do we have an official Mer background? Jan 08 15:11:00 not yet? :P Jan 08 15:11:28 this first-boot-wizard works nicely, but it would look better with a background :) Jan 08 15:11:30 * Meizirkki wants to try first-boot-wizard... Jan 08 15:11:30 hehe Jan 08 15:11:46 johnx: if we can find Meizirkki's background open licensed, :P Jan 08 15:12:04 two-moons? Jan 08 15:12:08 yeah Jan 08 15:12:10 "We skipped the "E" release by jumping from "D"iablo to "F"remantle. " Jan 08 15:12:14 i think itäs gpl or something Jan 08 15:12:14 oh that explains a -lot- Jan 08 15:12:46 s/itäs/it's/ Jan 08 15:12:47 Meizirkki meant: i think it's gpl or something Jan 08 15:12:53 and then my X server died O_o Jan 08 15:12:54 what was url again? Jan 08 15:13:06 johnx: when last client exits maybe? Jan 08 15:13:17 I got a backtrace and a signal 11 Jan 08 15:13:21 odd Jan 08 15:13:30 Stskeeps to the background? Jan 08 15:13:35 i'm gidding it up Jan 08 15:13:37 sec Jan 08 15:14:46 http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Peace?content=90816 Jan 08 15:14:54 widescreen: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Peace?content=90925 Jan 08 15:15:07 i still have no idea about the author Jan 08 15:19:58 Meizirkki: mm, looks like it is not distributable Jan 08 15:22:48 Stskeeps: i think i wicd and wifi-radar fucked up my network settings. nm-applet does not even scan for networks now Jan 08 15:23:20 Meizirkki, see anything interesting in dmesg? Jan 08 15:23:24 any1 speak spanish ? Jan 08 15:24:03 un poco Jan 08 15:24:33 existe alguna forma de actualizar el fw desde el n810 ? Jan 08 15:26:04 johnx: there is "cannoty get GPIO configuration for device" and "probe of spi2.1 failed" in dmesg Jan 08 15:26:20 Meizirkki, probably not connected Jan 08 15:27:54 i'm gonna reinstall Mer and try nm-applet without messing with wicd and wifi-radar Jan 08 15:28:13 k Jan 08 15:28:14 TheFatal, si, pero no es facil. Jan 08 15:30:55 johnx: tenes la pagina donde dice como hacerlo ?? Jan 08 15:33:17 johnx: heh, http://obukhoff.su/photos/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=146 Jan 08 15:33:25 que es hacerlo? Jan 08 15:33:53 TheFatal, leer /usr/bin/flash-and-reboot Jan 08 15:34:14 lardman: kind of make Jan 08 15:34:33 TheFatal: gracias :) Jan 08 15:34:54 TheFatal, flash-and-reboot es un shell script que 'flashes' kernel y initfs Jan 08 15:37:33 johnx: pero se puede usar en el N810 sin conectar a la computadora ? Jan 08 15:38:33 si es possible Jan 08 15:38:52 todos con el N810 Jan 08 15:39:04 sorry for my rubbish Spanish too :) Jan 08 15:39:48 /usr/bin/flash-and-reboot es en el N810 Jan 08 15:40:33 lardman: se entiende :) gracias Jan 08 15:40:41 de nada Jan 08 15:41:03 hi there. Jan 08 15:42:50 hola Jan 08 15:42:59 hablamos en espagnol? Jan 08 15:43:04 hi/hola :P Jan 08 15:45:43 dneary: I take that as a no :) Jan 08 15:46:34 no intiendo espagnol, mas hablo muy bien Jan 08 15:46:57 No soy marinero Jan 08 15:47:03 soy capitan Jan 08 15:47:10 too fast for me! Jan 08 15:47:51 I know Jan 08 15:48:03 :p Jan 08 15:48:09 para balar la bamba es necesita una poca de graca Jan 08 15:48:34 ~google graca Jan 08 15:49:01 Google no se graca, que es? Jan 08 15:49:14 to dance the bamba you need a little grace? Jan 08 15:49:19 dneary, :P Jan 08 15:50:43 I always wonder what the lyrics are, and now Dave has prompted me to find out while I'm sat in front of a PC (rather than drinking at someone's wedding) Jan 08 15:54:50 lardman: You're welcome (I think) Jan 08 15:54:56 :) Jan 08 15:55:18 o fortuna is next Jan 08 16:00:22 I suppose the Maemo.org wiki would be the ideal place to write Ruby-Maemo documentation/tutorials/examples. Jan 08 16:00:38 Rather than my setting up my own :) Jan 08 16:01:09 yep :) Jan 08 16:03:04 Stskeeps You around? Jan 08 16:03:06 mm? Jan 08 16:03:22 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=754&release_id=2329 new release of MerEcho Jan 08 16:03:33 thanks, what are the changes+ Jan 08 16:03:34 ? Jan 08 16:03:46 (any new screenshots?) Jan 08 16:03:49 woo! new Mer echo! Jan 08 16:03:54 perfect timing :) Jan 08 16:04:05 A ton, I had to get ride of the transpance due to mer not being able to do that yet Jan 08 16:04:10 one sec on screenshots Jan 08 16:04:13 has someone got the alpha SDK installed and in front of them? Jan 08 16:04:19 fremantle one? Jan 08 16:04:22 yep Jan 08 16:04:24 not in front of me, but in my office :P Jan 08 16:04:25 why? Jan 08 16:04:31 (i can ssh in) Jan 08 16:04:39 I want to check is g77/f77/gfortan comes in it Jan 08 16:04:43 s/is/if Jan 08 16:05:05 ah, no need, someone's already done it Jan 08 16:05:08 sorry for the bother Jan 08 16:05:40 can't see it Jan 08 16:05:45 no, it's not there Jan 08 16:06:01 just trying to get some info for a bug I opened long ago Jan 08 16:06:19 Eero answered anyway Jan 08 16:07:05 Andrewfblack: testing Jan 08 16:08:45 dneary: pong Jan 08 16:11:54 Stskeeps http://www.andrewblck.com/Stuff/screenshot06.png http://www.andrewblck.com/Stuff/screenshot07.png http://www.andrewblck.com/Stuff/screenshot08.png Jan 08 16:12:07 All I could grab before Nokia Died on me Jan 08 16:12:42 any way to set theme from command line in Mer that I'm playing with? Jan 08 16:13:04 Andrewfblack, that looks a lot like the theme I've been wanting to make for a while :D Jan 08 16:13:07 r2d2rogers: editing start-hildon Jan 08 16:13:33 johnx If you want to help I'm going to release the source to it soon. Jan 08 16:13:57 Stskeeps: thanks Jan 08 16:14:09 sounds good, I might do a color variation... Jan 08 16:14:17 You know I find more errors taking a screen shot and blowing it up lol little 1 pixel things you can't see on tablet Jan 08 16:14:32 Andrewfblack: i'm not exactly sure why but my "take screenshot" applet doesnt show up in extras anymore :) Jan 08 16:16:11 I need to come up with a better name then MerEcho now since it looks nothing like Echo theme anymore lol Jan 08 16:16:29 it reminds me a bit of some b-movie i watched.. Jan 08 16:16:40 hi Jan 08 16:17:07 Jaffa: How does 14h UTC next Tuesday suit you for a web design meeting? Jan 08 16:17:17 Stskeeps I was trying to go with something kinda simple that could be built on later Jan 08 16:17:18 alguien que hable español: se le puede poner ubuntu o fedora a N810 ?? Jan 08 16:17:29 Andrewfblack: hehe, yeah Jan 08 16:18:02 I'm not in love with my custom icons yet, but I don't like stock ones either Jan 08 16:18:10 we dont really have that many stock icons :P Jan 08 16:18:29 N810 -> Fedora/Ubuntu... possible ?? Jan 08 16:18:40 TheFatal: ubuntu definately, but not that fast Jan 08 16:18:41 :P Jan 08 16:18:46 dneary: perfick, since I'm on paternity leave Jan 08 16:19:02 but possible :) Jan 08 16:19:08 and fedora ? Jan 08 16:19:13 no clue. someone started Jan 08 16:19:17 no idea how far they got Jan 08 16:19:26 TheFatal, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975 Jan 08 16:19:42 ^ubuntu^ Jan 08 16:20:58 :O Jan 08 16:21:00 jaja Jan 08 16:22:09 poco dificil, :) Jan 08 16:22:24 si :S Jan 08 16:22:37 * Stskeeps wonders what set_theme is Jan 08 16:22:45 xD Jan 08 16:26:00 TheFatal, ?usa linux en su desktop? Jan 08 16:26:03 Jaffa: Perfick Jan 08 16:26:12 Better than our usual wacky meeting times :) Jan 08 16:26:20 johnx: yes, allways :) Jan 08 16:26:37 Fedora Jan 08 16:27:05 johnx: why ? Jan 08 16:27:16 <- curioso solomente Jan 08 16:27:22 xD Jan 08 16:27:24 :) Jan 08 16:27:35 can i use mmc for swap ? Jan 08 16:28:04 maybe -> swapon /dev/mmcblk0p2 Jan 08 16:28:23 yes, settings -> control panel -> memory (?) Jan 08 16:28:36 no Jan 08 16:28:49 en ubuntu/fedora: swapon :) Jan 08 16:28:55 xD Jan 08 16:28:59 yes Jan 08 16:29:02 but in N810 xD Jan 08 16:29:16 settings -> control panel -> ??? Jan 08 16:29:19 I forgot Jan 08 16:29:26 johnx: we could consider making MyDocs and .images .music etc too btw Jan 08 16:29:34 then load applet screenshots will actually work Jan 08 16:29:34 :P Jan 08 16:29:41 and we'll get purdy file chooser Jan 08 16:29:55 hey is there a web server that allows you to run php files on your tablet Jan 08 16:29:59 ah, can just throw those in /etc/skel I suppose Jan 08 16:30:00 johnx: there is not the option "swap" or "swapon" in control pannel Jan 08 16:30:11 AFB|Away, nginx or apache or lightttpd Jan 08 16:30:16 AFB|Away: Mer, apt-get install apache and php? ;) Jan 08 16:30:35 Stskeeps: i'm not sure, but if there is "MyDocs" in home dir, hildon will make ".xxx" subdirectories automatically Jan 08 16:30:38 AFB|Away, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=235084&postcount=19 Jan 08 16:30:52 Meizirkki: even on mer? :P Jan 08 16:32:50 nginx is the one i used to use they all run about same speed Jan 08 16:33:54 TheFatal, settings -> control panel -> memory Jan 08 16:33:56 unmount /media/mmc2 -> swapon /dev/mmcblk0p2 (?) works ? Jan 08 16:34:09 johnx: but only can put 128 mb :S Jan 08 16:34:12 i want more ! :D Jan 08 16:34:20 i need more too :P Jan 08 16:34:29 games, games, games :) Jan 08 16:35:10 you're not going to run halo 2 on it.. :> Jan 08 16:35:22 cual game? Jan 08 16:35:52 s/game/juego/ Jan 08 16:35:52 some for ps2 for example... game (eng) -> juego (esp) :P Jan 08 16:35:53 johnx meant: cual juego? Jan 08 16:36:17 no way to play ps2 games Jan 08 16:36:28 if psp Jan 08 16:36:30 psp Jan 08 16:36:32 no Jan 08 16:37:14 but if the hardw its better Jan 08 16:37:15 S: Jan 08 16:37:17 :S Jan 08 16:37:49 in psp can only put (for example) win98, in n810, winXP Jan 08 16:37:50 TheFatal, gameboy advance works Jan 08 16:38:01 suks gba Jan 08 16:38:06 gba suks :P Jan 08 16:38:37 emulation needs 12 times the CPU power to work Jan 08 16:39:27 and how **** psp can run whit less hw Jan 08 16:39:33 Stskeeps: yes i think so Jan 08 16:41:50 PSP: cpu 333Mhz, dram 4 mbs Jan 08 16:42:32 N810 CPU: 400MHz. 333 x 12 != 400 Jan 08 16:42:42 Stskeeps: nm-applet still doesn't want to connect Jan 08 16:42:48 i added groups Jan 08 16:43:19 Meizirkki, k, try to get /var/log/messages or alike Jan 08 16:44:59 i broke something on my X in Mer on 770, any good route to grab a fresh install at this point? Jan 08 16:46:17 Meizirkki, and /home/whatever/.xsession-errors Jan 08 16:47:07 johnx: the psp have dual core... thats why... Jan 08 16:48:24 StsN800: k Jan 08 16:51:26 psp has dual nothing, it doesnt multitask Jan 08 16:51:43 r2d2rogers: imager? Jan 08 16:52:16 r2d2rogers, will make a 0.6 770 image too. imager is best bet otherwise Jan 08 16:52:45 psp have 2 333 mhz cpus, or no ? Jan 08 16:52:51 Meizirkki, StsN800, thanks, digging in launchpad for now Jan 08 16:53:11 will use my platform and target files Jan 08 16:55:51 we switched to using 'auto-startx' now instead of rc.local thing Jan 08 16:56:45 ::nods:: I was wanting to see how well that worked on the 770 Jan 08 16:56:57 * johnx packages furiously Jan 08 16:57:12 prolly good if you remove sapwood initialization from start-hildon :P Jan 08 16:57:13 I still need to get the SDK at some point I guess Jan 08 16:57:18 Jan 08 17:03:26 I only have /dev/fb0 but Xorg is trying to use /dev/fb1, and xorg.conf says /dev/fb0 Jan 08 17:04:28 Stskeeps: how did you get osso-xterm installed? i am getting dependency problem (osso-xterm depends on libvte4, but mer wants to install the ubuntu one) Jan 08 17:06:52 r2d2rogers, you can create symlink. Jan 08 17:07:14 Meizirkki, do you have roxterm installed? Jan 08 17:07:18 well, moo Jan 08 17:07:35 johnx: yes Jan 08 17:07:48 RST38h: moo Jan 08 17:08:02 hi RST38h Jan 08 17:08:16 it depends on another libvte. might have to uninstall that first Jan 08 17:08:32 johnx: ok, thanks Jan 08 17:08:52 i am willing to uninstall roxterm anyway, because chr opens menu Jan 08 17:09:03 and i am using chr for Mode_switch Jan 08 17:09:08 (xmodmap) Jan 08 17:10:01 wow I have lighttpd running at 117% of my cpu power how is that even possible lol Jan 08 17:10:54 magic Jan 08 17:11:19 AFB|Away, watch out. you're racking up CPU debt Jan 08 17:11:50 load-applets process-dialog shows six number cpu-usage when closing an app :) Jan 08 17:12:27 I think I am just trying to run someone with to much php code for hte tablet Jan 08 17:13:07 I wonder if any of the speed mods i see on itT really work Jan 08 17:13:32 depends on what your limitation is Jan 08 17:13:41 cual es la temperatura promedio del n810 ? Jan 08 17:14:10 does the n810 processor slow down as the battery dies like some laptops? Jan 08 17:15:00 AFB|Away, nope. it scales up and down depending on load. if you're getting slow response time you could lock it in performance mode Jan 08 17:15:16 but if it's sitting at 100% already it won't make a difference Jan 08 17:15:21 how do you do that? Jan 08 17:16:24 echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor Jan 08 17:16:31 as root of course Jan 08 17:16:34 or just use advanced power Jan 08 17:16:37 of course Jan 08 17:16:52 TheFatal: ~30C for me Jan 08 17:17:09 well lighttpd is jumping all around will locking it in help? Jan 08 17:17:44 I haven't had time to install Advance Power Yet is it in extras? Jan 08 17:17:52 TheFatal: when listening to mp3s that is Jan 08 17:17:52 no Jan 08 17:18:07 garage or is like on itT? Jan 08 17:18:14 it's on both Jan 08 17:18:20 ok Jan 08 17:19:13 lardman: tnks... Jan 08 17:19:24 np Jan 08 17:20:42 I've fallen behind on what new apps are out, hard to beleave how much time I've been on tablet these last 2 days I was ready to get ride of it on monday lol Jan 08 17:21:09 yup, it sucks you back in :) Jan 08 17:23:18 its necesary to install telnet server ?? Jan 08 17:23:46 no Jan 08 17:23:55 can I not install Advanced Power from App Manager says I'm missing some depends but I can't find then Jan 08 17:24:15 install it with dpkg and then just do an apt-get -f install Jan 08 17:24:38 and ssh server ? Jan 08 17:25:26 ssh server? necesario? no. Jan 08 17:25:53 but helpful Jan 08 17:26:45 ssh server es conveniente por muchas razones, pero no es necesario Jan 08 17:27:26 :S i'm setting the n810 config to boot from a flash card. but why its helpful ? Jan 08 17:27:35 nose si lo dije bien :S Jan 08 17:27:51 qwerty12 whats the command to install it with dpkg Jan 08 17:27:52 StsN800: missing /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so Jan 08 17:27:57 TheFatal, por debug :) Jan 08 17:27:59 Andrewfblack, dpkg -i Jan 08 17:28:07 thanks couldn't remember the -i Jan 08 17:28:10 AIGLX error fromt he Xorg log Jan 08 17:28:33 TheFatal, generally, if you don't know why you are doing something, it's not the best of ideas to do it... Jan 08 17:28:56 r2d2rogers, normal Jan 08 17:29:03 no opengl;) Jan 08 17:29:15 qwerty12: i want to boot n810 from a flash card Jan 08 17:29:16 ok that makes more sense Jan 08 17:29:39 i follow this https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Jan 08 17:29:49 zenity won't find XML::Parser inside mer sdk but it builds on native ARM. will commit first-boot-wizard and work on zenity tomorrow Jan 08 17:31:17 XML::Parser being a perl thing? Jan 08 17:31:26 yeah, it is installed Jan 08 17:32:32 The only thing perl in zenity is the gdialog script iirc, you could probably remove it from the package. Or you could edit debian/rules and remove the PERL lines I shoved in there to force it to use maemo's perl; not scratchbox's perl Jan 08 17:33:04 ok, I'll do that tomorrow :) 2:30AM here O_o Jan 08 17:33:11 johnx, sec Jan 08 17:33:22 k Jan 08 17:33:27 johnx, mer ssdk your side or builder? Jan 08 17:33:38 johnx, Wow, I don't have the power to stay up that long :D Jan 08 17:33:43 Stskeeps, my side Jan 08 17:33:48 if your side, missing perl devkit Jan 08 17:33:59 aaah, that might do it Jan 08 17:34:02 another thing to add to wiki Jan 08 17:34:16 anyways, I'll look at it first thing tomorrow Jan 08 17:34:35 qwerty12, I screwed up my sleep schedule O_o Jan 08 17:34:48 anyways, thanks for the help. 'night Jan 08 17:35:03 Although, anyone know if doing an export PATH=/usr/bin:$PATH is possible in Makefile syntax like it is in bash? Jan 08 17:35:06 night johnx Jan 08 17:35:17 Stskeeps / johnx : apt-get dist-upgrade: http://pastebin.com/m21c0a10e Jan 08 17:35:52 ./nupgrade.sh 0 -> Error message: "Unable to identify target devuce and partition whit a valid linux filesystem (type 83) Jan 08 17:36:18 TheFatal, https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card#Partition_your_card Jan 08 17:37:10 cu later chaps Jan 08 17:37:15 i have it Jan 08 17:38:39 i have all Jan 08 17:39:36 but when i run nupgrade.sh 0, appears the error message Jan 08 17:40:20 StsN800, I hope when you promote Mer, it isn't like this: https://usshop.ubuntu.com/training.php?catid=5 :P Jan 08 17:41:17 dear god Jan 08 17:41:49 and whats with the shit brown color shirts anyway? Jan 08 17:42:22 The way the guy on the right is looking at the guy on the left makes me wonder :P Jan 08 17:43:05 next ubuntu colour scheme will be rainbow, eh Jan 08 17:44:13 http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=428 - for all you KDE lovers Jan 08 18:01:52 * r2d2rogers kicks off the old imager run while he goes to lunch Jan 08 18:02:14 if I use nginx can i install php to go with it? Jan 08 18:04:01 any council people about? Jan 08 18:04:06 GeneralAntilles: ping Jan 08 18:04:10 Jaffa: ping Jan 08 18:05:26 lardman: pong Jan 08 18:20:09 how i unmount a partition ? Jan 08 18:20:20 bcos unmount: not found :S Jan 08 18:20:31 i hate my english -.- Jan 08 18:20:40 umount isnt it Jan 08 18:20:50 https://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card Jan 08 18:21:11 its says "unmoun" Jan 08 18:21:14 unmount" Jan 08 18:21:22 where? Jan 08 18:21:29 the url Jan 08 18:21:37 im looking Jan 08 18:21:40 In Xterm on your tablet, run: Jan 08 18:21:40 unmount not found on page Jan 08 18:21:42 apt-get install e2fsprogs Jan 08 18:21:43 but umount is Jan 08 18:21:43 umount /media/mmc1 Jan 08 18:21:45 umount /media/mmc2 Jan 08 18:21:46 sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 Jan 08 18:21:48 /dev/mmcblk0p1:1,15000,6 Jan 08 18:21:49 /dev/mmcblk0p2:15001,, Jan 08 18:21:51 /dev/mmcblk0p3: Jan 08 18:21:52 /dev/mmcblk0p4: Jan 08 18:21:54 ou Jan 08 18:21:55 -.- Jan 08 18:21:57 srry Jan 08 18:22:02 i read bad =P Jan 08 18:22:17 yes, you do :D heh Jan 08 18:22:22 xD Jan 08 18:23:24 if mmc2 its busy, how can i unmount it ? :S Jan 08 18:23:36 close all programs accessing files on the card Jan 08 18:23:51 just reboot and make sure usb isnt in and stuff Jan 08 18:24:00 simplest cleanest thing Jan 08 18:24:07 such a windows solution Jan 08 18:24:13 works though :) Jan 08 18:24:15 can i kill process ? Jan 08 18:24:33 some, yes but if you arent root maybe not Jan 08 18:24:58 yes, i'm root, but can i make something "bad" ? Jan 08 18:25:07 whit kill command Jan 08 18:25:43 puedo romper algo ? can i make some crash ? Jan 08 18:28:15 TheFatal, yes, if you stop a required process all hell can break loose and firey demons will fly up and vaporise you :) Jan 08 18:28:48 xD Jan 08 18:28:57 i mean data... Jan 08 18:29:09 yeah, so did i Jan 08 18:29:17 ok Jan 08 18:29:40 if the process is busy doing something when you shut it off it may leave the data in a bad state Jan 08 18:32:29 ok, i'm going crazy... Jan 08 18:34:01 can u tell me how format, partition the flash card and boot from the flash card ?? Jan 08 18:35:30 back Jan 08 18:35:36 ehlo lcuk, how are things? Jan 08 19:06:00 damn... ukmp sucks Jan 08 19:06:18 it doesn't even start without an external card! Jan 08 19:12:40 Tear console output and as far as i can get with nm-applet in Mer: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/Screenshot-4.png Jan 08 19:13:49 Meiz_n810: I was getting similar messages with tear Jan 08 19:13:57 invalid pointer... Jan 08 19:14:14 what theme is it ? Jan 08 19:14:24 plankton Jan 08 19:14:31 with no transparency Jan 08 19:14:41 Meiz_n810: similar i could get Jan 08 19:15:15 could that "pointer" have something to do with the finger scrolling? (wild guess) Jan 08 19:16:27 hey got a problem I have nginx and php5 installed but when I got to the php file it just wants me to download the file Jan 08 19:20:21 * r2d2rogers remembers he has to comment out some things to get to X for Mer on the 770 Jan 08 19:21:03 lardman, pong? Jan 08 19:28:37 can i format the n810 flash memory ? Jan 08 19:35:49 you can, but then you don't have a system you can boot Jan 08 19:39:26 I'm assuming he's talking about the soldered-on 2GB Jan 08 19:40:02 TheFatal: you mean the internal fat32 system Jan 08 19:42:17 nono, for example... i want to format my winXP computer. I format it, and after i install winXP, but without all programs Jan 08 19:42:34 something like that Jan 08 19:42:40 ~flashing Jan 08 19:42:41 extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 08 19:42:57 but i have not the usb connector Jan 08 19:43:01 i lost it :S Jan 08 19:43:29 minib connectors are a dime a dozen Jan 08 19:43:39 You can pick up a six-pack at the grocery store for $7.99 Jan 08 19:43:54 where ? in argentina ? Jan 08 19:44:01 in usa Jan 08 19:44:28 here in argentina its about $20 Jan 08 19:45:19 Get a Mini ot Micro USB cable from Cell Phone store about 5 Dollars designed to be used on New Razor with out buying new cables Jan 08 19:46:32 http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-MicroUSB-Adapter-RAZR2-SKN6252/dp/B001EJFZ5G wow down to $1.79 I might get me a few extras Jan 08 19:47:51 General: Are they edible? Jan 08 19:48:42 RST38h, the chocolate coated version are $9.99 Jan 08 19:48:55 * may induce death Jan 08 19:48:57 Cellular people on itT still crack me up. Jan 08 19:49:11 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=255476&postcount=24 Jan 08 19:49:17 PCIe Jan 08 19:49:17 Ha Jan 08 19:50:31 Hey if we are putting PCIe in I have some other ideas for stuff to add to lol Jan 08 19:50:55 Hrm http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/the-palm-pre/#continued Jan 08 19:51:04 PCIe would be so ridiculously expensive. Jan 08 19:51:07 GeneralAntilles: looks good Jan 08 19:51:23 Perhaps Palm may become relevant again. Jan 08 19:51:54 wow, the new webkit-eal runs really smooth Jan 08 19:52:13 I wonder if they'll put FM radio back into the tablets Jan 08 19:52:23 Xamusk, and an FM transmitter Jan 08 19:52:26 both with RDS support Jan 08 19:52:40 GeneralAntilles Maybe XM radio? Jan 08 19:52:45 No. Jan 08 19:52:51 no XM Jan 08 19:52:58 But with 3G you can just stream whatever. . . . Jan 08 19:53:05 was a joke Jan 08 19:53:13 common FM reception without needing the headphones as antenna Jan 08 19:53:36 Khertan: ping Jan 08 19:53:45 Xamusk, no idea how it'll be wired. Jan 08 19:53:47 I do wish there was a XMRO player for tablets Jan 08 19:53:55 though I think 3G would be nice indeed Jan 08 19:54:27 no-phones are good for tablet people, but phone stuff does wonders to gain markets Jan 08 19:56:35 reason I bought an n810 instead of a smartphone is it's half the price Jan 08 19:56:48 dunno why a cellular radio costs $300 Jan 08 19:58:04 Carrier requirements, government regulatory agencies Jan 08 19:58:09 Both are very expensive Jan 08 19:58:30 but flat rate, not per deivce Jan 08 19:58:38 Per-device Jan 08 19:58:59 Just because one device is certified, doesn't mean all devices from that manufacturer automatically are. :) Jan 08 19:59:13 I mean 1 model Jan 08 19:59:29 it's not $300 per machine sold Jan 08 19:59:35 Whats the fastest browser for N810 I don't care about features just speed Jan 08 19:59:48 do you care about javascript? Jan 08 19:59:53 is there lynx for N810? Jan 08 19:59:59 Er, well, it's millions upon millions of dollars and that cost has to be spread out over all units sold. . . . Jan 08 20:00:00 Andrewfblack: webkit-eal Jan 08 20:00:00 well yeah javeascript Jan 08 20:00:04 links2 Jan 08 20:00:05 maybe python's urllib :) Jan 08 20:00:08 webkit backend for the standard browser Jan 08 20:00:29 GeneralAntilles: i would prefer elinks Jan 08 20:01:02 Andrewfblack: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25752 Jan 08 20:03:15 I played with a blackberry storm today, like the hover then click GUI, that's what's been annoying about touchscreens Jan 08 20:05:58 Oh are there visual cues as to where you're about to hit before your finger touches the screen? Jan 08 20:13:58 gladiac well I can't say webkit for default is faster for me crashes everyime I open it Jan 08 20:14:18 Andrewfblack: reboot the device Jan 08 20:14:33 i did Jan 08 20:14:38 RST38h, mmmn they are ok thanks Jan 08 20:14:42 it works just fine for me Jan 08 20:14:53 No crashes Jan 08 20:15:06 Andrewfblack, so it crashes faster than nay other app Jan 08 20:15:14 lcuk lol thats true Jan 08 20:15:24 gladiac I'll try removing it and installing again later Jan 08 20:16:12 anyone know if new fennec update is even worth installign Jan 08 20:16:38 Andrewfblack: it runs more or less fine Jan 08 20:16:50 i prefer the standard browser with webkit Jan 08 20:17:28 here, take a look of the video ;) http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1970588/how_to_update_or_format_nokia_n810/ Jan 08 20:19:59 Hello everybody Jan 08 20:20:22 aloha Jan 08 20:20:28 slotted! Jan 08 20:20:49 hiya wazd Jan 08 20:21:44 Palm finally laid an egg Jan 08 20:21:53 Took them eons Jan 08 20:22:15 Hey lcuk, seen your PoC with my menu, looks nice) Jan 08 20:22:17 heya wazd Jan 08 20:23:00 its a start, as said in the forum, was just to see what i needed to do to jump from boxes to clean looking ui elements, and thankfully its a tiny step :) Jan 08 20:23:30 having the framework around to allow that sort of thing is just as important though Jan 08 20:23:42 hey Stskeeps, hows mer Jan 08 20:23:53 lcuk: going forward Jan 08 20:24:16 can i install it and do xv stuff yet? Jan 08 20:24:18 Hello, Stskeeps, sorry again for my long PM reply Jan 08 20:24:51 wazd: hehe, it's fine :) Jan 08 20:24:54 holidays and all Jan 08 20:25:05 lcuk: if you dare to run b-mans installer, maybe Jan 08 20:25:30 will it fit on a 1gb card? Jan 08 20:25:42 it is 113mb tar.gzed Jan 08 20:25:50 i mean install Jan 08 20:26:04 yeah, and i think it's like 350-400mb untarred Jan 08 20:26:30 Wow, Palm finaly realized that it's UI looks like "hello 80's?) Jan 08 20:26:31 oooh, will the installer format correctly on such a small card? Jan 08 20:26:56 lcuk: yeah, .. i think Jan 08 20:28:01 wazd, wheres the palm announce page thingy Jan 08 20:28:30 wazd: ....and cloned iPhone. Jan 08 20:28:46 Concerning Palm, I thought it would never happen Jan 08 20:28:52 same here Jan 08 20:29:16 That's why I jumped ship earlier this year and bought an N800 Jan 08 20:29:51 the device is based on OMAP3 btw Jan 08 20:30:16 I'm reading Engadget live from CES Jan 08 20:30:25 http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/live-from-palms-ces-press-conference/6#comments Jan 08 20:30:51 Deffinitely an Egg) Jan 08 20:30:56 * Stslaptop pokes his dead server corpse (stskeeps) Jan 08 20:31:24 RIP server Jan 08 20:31:36 so not going outside in this cold to restart it Jan 08 20:32:08 OMAP3? Sweet. Jan 08 20:32:20 I like the shot "Search: " )) Jan 08 20:32:21 Stslaptop: looks like there's one bit to adjust for the 770 Mer image... the read foo lines in the usbnet file Jan 08 20:32:31 r2d2rogers: yeah, true Jan 08 20:32:44 r2d2rogers: weird center button != enter Jan 08 20:32:56 ...a pinhole camera made of silver, gold, mercury, gem stones and a Tibetan monk skull blessed by a Lama... Jan 08 20:33:21 That Palm device looks nice Jan 08 20:33:33 Stslaptop: right, other than that though it seems fine, unless you have the remounr ro on errors still there Jan 08 20:33:43 .. possibly Jan 08 20:34:30 Stslaptop: do you want to add a default gateway to the USb net script? Jan 08 20:34:33 Jaffa: Looks like a crude iPhone clone, if you ask me Jan 08 20:34:47 r2d2rogers: i'm thinking of handing it through /etc/network/interfaces Jan 08 20:34:52 Jaffa: But maybe the devil is in the details somewhere? It is OMAP3 based, and so far there is only one UI screenshot Jan 08 20:34:53 like it is in deblet Jan 08 20:34:56 Stslaptop: better Jan 08 20:35:22 Palm claims that it is programmed in "CSS, HTML, and XML" - not a good sign Jan 08 20:35:31 RST38h: Except with Bluetooth, a physical keyboard, MicroUSB OTG, standards based development and not everywhere you look? ;-) Jan 08 20:35:42 not a bad sign either if the framework uses those as its core elements Jan 08 20:35:45 Jaffa: Yea, but other iPhone clones have these too Jan 08 20:35:50 RST38h: no OS, it's all in javascript Jan 08 20:35:51 :P Jan 08 20:35:52 or something Jan 08 20:35:55 * RST38h kinda hoped for some minor miracle from Palm Jan 08 20:35:57 its omap3 though isnt it Jan 08 20:36:00 RST38h: screenshots: http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/palm-announces-web-os-platform/#continued Jan 08 20:36:04 RST38h: I read "if you *know* about CMSes, HTML, CSS, XML and JavaScript, you can develop for these" - which probably means Prism-based apps Jan 08 20:36:11 General: =) thanks Jan 08 20:36:30 It has got wireless charger, miracle wise Jan 08 20:37:43 this nokia can be just as fast and slick at such a low resolution Jan 08 20:37:45 the gps is in /dev/pgps ? Jan 08 20:38:02 Jaffa: What is Prism? Jan 08 20:38:24 lcuk: Not when it is running Symbian :) Jan 08 20:38:59 The sceenshots look pretty nice if you ask me :) Jan 08 20:39:02 does the OS prevent you from accessing and altering memory bytes? Jan 08 20:39:09 yeah BrentDC very slick Jan 08 20:39:20 is the gps device in /dev/pgps ? Jan 08 20:39:33 RST38h: Mozilla's offline, try-to-fake-a-desktop-app-using-offline-web-apps technology Jan 08 20:39:38 TheFatal, not sure Jan 08 20:39:50 how can i configure mapper then ? Jan 08 20:39:52 :S Jan 08 20:39:54 And there is no way that is just Web-language stuff (even if it is called WebOS) Jan 08 20:40:13 lcuk: That's all well and good, but the tablet's *aren't* at that resolution. Of course, OMAP3'll do wonders on the RX-51 Jan 08 20:40:25 why shouldnt it be? html/css can be used to give decent layout Jan 08 20:40:51 BrentDC: their CPU microcode is html and javascript, maybe ;> Jan 08 20:40:54 jaffa, speak for yourself :) liqbase is at any resolution i want, and XV has just added an RGB mode which I assume will do the same Jan 08 20:40:56 BrentDC: indeed, most apps probably not. I imagine there's similar stuff though to what Symbian and Maemo have/are getting. Widgets? What did Nokia call them? You could scale that up to full-size apps reasonably well Jan 08 20:41:01 - / instruction set Jan 08 20:41:07 Jaffa: ah Jan 08 20:42:19 Although CSS/Javascript can layout an application, those apps look far too "rich". Jan 08 20:42:22 as long as the XHTML/CSS renderer can do things quickly you can script all the actions entirely and not know or care whats under it Jan 08 20:42:25 lcuk: js and css are both memory and cpu intensive Jan 08 20:42:38 the display update rate will be the smallest of your problems Jan 08 20:42:51 BrentDC ? look too rich? thats upto the designer Jan 08 20:43:21 we arent talking about a mega massive super site all in memory at once Jan 08 20:43:38 BrentDC: It is all fakeable in JS/CSS given some minor and straightforward enhancements like alpha channel support for images Jan 08 20:43:41 its just a few pages with dynamic stuff, they havent got the res to do much more Jan 08 20:43:47 RST38h: and this is an OMAP3 processor, not exactly short of the fast stuff Jan 08 20:44:06 Jaffa: JS/CSS can slow down event a 80x86 Jan 08 20:44:10 even Jan 08 20:44:15 oh, BTW, I've been fooling around with PS on holidays and came up with this http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0901/13/2356c7c98e4e.png Jan 08 20:44:25 RST38h, BAD JS/CSS can Jan 08 20:44:31 Is it worth developing?) Jan 08 20:44:44 We'll see, I guess. I'd be even more impressed if it was just CSS/JS :) Jan 08 20:44:48 Jaffa: So, much slower OMAP3 with cheaper and less power hungry memory does not stand a chance Jan 08 20:45:12 lcuk: Well, JS/CSS make writing "bad" scripts really easy Jan 08 20:45:31 RST38h, come on, you know yourself you can code in a dirty wasteful manner or you can do things carefully and cleanly Jan 08 20:45:36 RST38h: Badly written C can slow down an 80x86, your point? Jan 08 20:45:56 heh Jan 08 20:46:03 Jaffa: Yes, but JS/CSS is much easier to screw up. Way, way easier Jan 08 20:46:17 but this is a tiny tiny screen Jan 08 20:46:25 not much is capable of happening Jan 08 20:46:34 Of course, "one can write fortran in any language", but some are more than the others :) Jan 08 20:46:41 RST38h: I still don't see your point. You're saying noone would ever suggest using JS/CSS for a way of writing simple apps on their device, because it's easy for a crap developer to screw it up? Jan 08 20:46:44 RST38h: they make writing scripts easier too :) Jan 08 20:46:45 The point is Omap3 will eat a lot less power to render such smooth UI than current CPU Jan 08 20:46:54 doc: Yep, true Jan 08 20:47:16 RST38h: Except, to some extent, Apple, Google, Palm and Nokia are all encouraging that. Jan 08 20:47:19 Jaffa: My point is that your average js/css app will be more wasteful than your average C/C++ app of the same functionality Jan 08 20:47:34 you can't do UI if it's eating 100% of CPU time, like apple did Jan 08 20:47:36 and the same is true for asm apps Jan 08 20:47:47 Jaffa: They do, they do, but how many serious js/css apps have you seen? iPhone devs plainly refused to write "web apps" Jan 08 20:48:00 Jaffa: And jailbroke their devices Jan 08 20:48:15 RST38h: yes, JS apps are harder to execute but run within a "richer" and "more easy-to-use" environment. Jan 08 20:48:35 Jaffa: does not matter to a user if it slows down to a crawl Jan 08 20:48:37 RST38h: Well, except lots *did* write iPhone web apps, and that wasn't the offline version we're positing here. Jan 08 20:49:00 So, what's with Maemo.org?) Jan 08 20:49:03 Lots? mmm...maybe a dozen or so, unless I am missing something Jan 08 20:49:07 RST38h: Well, duh. I'm still trying to understand your point? Jan 08 20:49:14 wazd: Nice design. Probably won't be used. Jan 08 20:49:26 Jaffa: I directly stated my point above. Jan 08 20:49:45 Should I make an awful one to be used?) Jan 08 20:49:48 That JavaScript apps are slower than an equivalent C app (assuming the absence of intelligent, adaptive JITs). Jan 08 20:49:52 Who's arguing with that? Jan 08 20:50:32 wazd: No, it is just that maemo.org guys seem to be almost done with the new design (judging from their messages) and they won't change it any time soon Jan 08 20:50:34 That doesn't mean that some companies aren't trying to make it easier to move Web technologies to desktops/devices to write fully-functional, offline, full-blown applications. Jan 08 20:50:36 actually, depending on the library cant you breakeven - ie nice fast c/asm based UI lib and scripted app engine Jan 08 20:51:02 And that for a notepad-type app, there's no reason that couldn't be done in JavaScript, taking advantage of rich UI and persistence libraries Jan 08 20:51:07 it was the reason visual basic worked ;) Jan 08 20:51:10 Jaffa: You are going into some high level sociopoliticallyeconomic conclusions Jan 08 20:51:17 Jaffa: But the point is much simpler Jan 08 20:51:36 Jaffa: The point is that in an embedded device, you do not want to slow yourself down with all this glue. Jan 08 20:51:54 EVEN if it is possible to skate on it somehow, if you know the right moves. Jan 08 20:52:07 Who is this "you"? The *makers* of these devices are suggesting using JavaScript. Jan 08 20:52:40 wazd: so how long time in advance did you write your blog posts/designs? if you came up with a new one each day, that's impressive :) Jan 08 20:52:40 Jaffa: But not using it themselves very activaly, are they? :) Jan 08 20:52:42 Is this just an updated version of your "Android sucks because it uses Java, a bytecode-based device will never be successful because you can't write a video player from scratch" argument? Or even the same one. Jan 08 20:53:08 Jaffa: Let us call it a generalized version Jan 08 20:53:48 RST38h: Who knows, we haven't seen how the pre's OS is put together (although it's probably using "Web OS" as marketing and because it's designed to operate always-on, sharing data between services and using cloud-computing resources to manage your data) Jan 08 20:53:55 Jaffa: But of course, you are free to believe what you wish and a good step in advancing your belief into the masses would be to create a nice lightweight JavaScript environment for NITs Jan 08 20:54:01 Stslaptop: well, 4 of them I had in sketches already. Others were been made each day :) Jan 08 20:54:19 wazd, what do you do your layouts in? Jan 08 20:54:24 Jaffa: Something that lets people create JS-based desktop widgets Jan 08 20:54:30 PS) Jan 08 20:54:37 Jaffa: Without taking too much RAM or CPU of course Jan 08 20:55:03 RST38h: What, like Nokia are (supposedly) doing? Jan 08 20:55:18 * Jaffa isn't arguing from a position of personal belief, just observation. Jan 08 20:55:39 RST38h, if you could use your emulib to load and manage the graphical assets but give a nice easy to use scripting (python?) manager would it be a serious amount slower/less efficient than currently? Jan 08 20:55:39 I'm trying to learn Flash to make some "active" mockups Jan 08 20:55:46 Jaffa: But I am also arguing based on observation really. I am just taking a dimmer, more realistic view of reality Jan 08 20:56:21 lcuk: Dunno. EMULib is really skin deep and won't be of much use like this Jan 08 20:56:47 lcuk: If you mean, use hw components emulation from EMULib and write missing hw emulation in Python, then it will be slow, sorry Jan 08 20:57:07 was just an example, my libliqbase has graphics and sketches and drawing tools and im thinking of putting a python front end on it to allow rapid prototyping/dev Jan 08 20:57:27 RST38h: How many apps are in the Android app store compared with downloads.maemo.org? Based on your generalised argument, and your definition of "success", the former number should be lower (perhaps by an order of magnitude or two) Jan 08 20:57:41 it should be just as fast at drawing but a much lower level of entry Jan 08 20:57:43 lcuk: That will prbably work, just don't forget about creating actual apps :) Jan 08 20:58:07 Jaffa: You took two arbitrary and different devices for comparison Jan 08 20:58:31 Jaffa: please, compare S60 vs Android, WinMobile vs Android, or iPhone vs Android, ok? Jan 08 20:58:41 RST38h, of course, im writing the lib so its logical to build from Jan 08 20:59:02 i wouldnt be doing it otherwise, the python bit will come as a natural extension of the hopefully sane api Jan 08 20:59:03 Jaffa: also, the number of apps may not be an indication of anything. The number of j2me apps is humongous for example Jan 08 20:59:15 Jaffa: 99% of them are shite though Jan 08 20:59:27 RST38h: What, you mean I *can't* generalise one bytecode-based device against another arbitrary non-bytecode based device? And yet, the other way round is fine? Jan 08 20:59:45 RST38h, thats perfect though Jan 08 20:59:50 Jaffa: When you compare, you should compare similar devices and similar marketplaces Jan 08 20:59:51 omg, sprint has already launched flash-ads with Pre Jan 08 21:00:02 RST38h: Since when did "success" include quality? Most of the output of the X Factor finalist is shit, but it's still successful. Jan 08 21:00:05 AdBlock to the rescue :) Jan 08 21:00:20 heh, adblock the UI :D Jan 08 21:00:56 Jaffa: Well, that is why you need to do comparisons correctly Jan 08 21:01:30 Jaffa: You want really similar markets, and you probably need more than two Jan 08 21:02:07 Meiz_n810: can i see your /var/log files from Mer at some point? Jan 08 21:02:11 And if 99% of android apps are Tetris clones, for example, or social network clients, you probably want to group Jan 08 21:02:12 RST38h, btw im already porting the liqbase original apps to the new library and can get on with extending soon Jan 08 21:02:39 lcuk: It may be nice to implement all the apps in pure Python Jan 08 21:03:17 lcuk: Unless they load for 40 seconds like Canola does of course :) (but Canola is doing some extra checking, according to handful and that takes time) Jan 08 21:03:21 I might just do that one day, but its not a priority right now Jan 08 21:03:38 python-launcher should help with startup time Jan 08 21:03:45 Jaffa: It does not Jan 08 21:03:45 and why should a python app take 40 seconds to start? Jan 08 21:04:03 though granted most apps take a horrid length of time Jan 08 21:04:06 The whole disappointment was the Pandora's UI. OMAP3 and old-skool win95 style, oh my( Jan 08 21:04:07 Jaffa: Apparently, Canola spends most of its loading time dynamically loading Python modules and checking their versions Jan 08 21:04:20 Jaffa: python-launcher can't predict that :) Jan 08 21:04:46 python has this suboptimal imperative execution model Jan 08 21:04:47 wazd: Expecting *anything* from Pandora isn't a good idea Jan 08 21:04:58 you don't load modules, you execute code that creates classes and functions at runtime Jan 08 21:05:07 hence, not a lot of opportunity for caching Jan 08 21:05:10 wazd: heh, 10 bucks they'd be on Mer on pandora like banana flies on a garbage bag in the sun.. :P Jan 08 21:05:13 RST38h: I meant for lcuk's apps Jan 08 21:05:14 and multiple python processes can't share the code Jan 08 21:05:42 Jaffa: depends on how they are written I guess...A lot of Python apps start up "instantly" for me, even without py-launcher Jan 08 21:05:46 wazd: That's just the default Matchbox stuff. And given they can't seem to get a case, who'd've spent time cooking up a whole new Linux mobile UI, which no-one had seen before. Jan 08 21:05:58 jaffa, depends which way round i decide to do it - make liqbase a standard library, or allow python fragments from within Jan 08 21:06:15 b-man: status? Jan 08 21:06:19 hi, lcuk Jan 08 21:06:28 lcuk: Here is an idea: Jan 08 21:06:46 hiya marius :) did you have a good xmas and new year? Jan 08 21:06:49 lcuk: Forget Python for now. Make a REALLY NICE high level C++ lib Jan 08 21:07:28 no, really nice low level c lib for talking to the screen, an intermediate lib for UI and whatever ontop. if i use C++ i lose flexibility Jan 08 21:07:32 lcuk: It is actually a difficult design task: you want to design an API so, that 90% of apps can be coded in C++ almost like if it were a scripting language Jan 08 21:07:52 I'm working on getting a fuew minor bugs worked out Jan 08 21:08:00 b-man: alright, like? Jan 08 21:08:06 lcuk: Just provide alternative C API, not a big deal Jan 08 21:08:27 why do work twice? just write it in C where im happy and the compiler is happy on device and then its usable everywhere :) Jan 08 21:08:29 lcuk: The C functions will of course look more cumbersome and take an extra pointer, ut so what Jan 08 21:08:39 lcuk: It is not doing the work twice really Jan 08 21:08:56 it is since ive already got a shed load of the code and a workflow all sorted Jan 08 21:09:08 i have targets Jan 08 21:09:17 * lcuk is behind though :S Jan 08 21:11:08 lcuk: then having a C++ API would be more like putting some paint on an existing fence :) Jan 08 21:11:46 yeah - a c++ lick of paint on the existing lib will be good Jan 08 21:11:49 the option diolog for selecting the mer partition fails to start in the advanced installer. Jan 08 21:12:01 wazd: quick question: what website should I use for looking up a phone number in moscow? Jan 08 21:12:09 but thats not my priority Jan 08 21:12:25 Stslaptop: I install midori again, and it tried to pop up the h-i-m owhen I hit the address bar Jan 08 21:12:42 r2d2rogers: interesting - but probably not in the forms Jan 08 21:12:54 I think it's missing some packages, but that's more than I got last time Jan 08 21:13:09 yeah, we actually install hildon-input-method correctly now and boot it :P Jan 08 21:13:20 Stslaptop: sorry for not being verry responsive today, i've ben a little busy :p Jan 08 21:13:28 it's not getting the keys showing though Jan 08 21:14:14 well, if it's not private phone then yellowpages.ru Jan 08 21:14:39 wazd: thanks Jan 08 21:14:59 Stslaptop: trying again after killing sapwood Jan 08 21:15:13 wazd: what if it is a private phone? Jan 08 21:15:24 Stslaptop: how is the status on the image? Jan 08 21:15:25 taht's waht is was, it doesn't pop up without sapwood running Jan 08 21:15:43 I had run midori from the telnet session Jan 08 21:16:04 b-man: johnx's first boot wizard is getting close to being done, and that'll be v0.6 Jan 08 21:16:15 k Jan 08 21:16:18 we have some issues with osso-xterm and finding a proper wifi applet for Mer Jan 08 21:16:23 since we don't have ICD and friends Jan 08 21:16:38 hmm Jan 08 21:16:47 RST38: well, it's harder, cause all web-accessible Moscow DB's are very old Jan 08 21:16:59 wazd: and do not seem to work Jan 08 21:17:18 Hello everyone, I have just experianced a problem with my n810 that i'm not sure of the solution Jan 08 21:17:19 b-man: you used wifi-radar or what before? Jan 08 21:17:28 yes Jan 08 21:17:33 JarodTLG: have you tried turning it off and on? Jan 08 21:17:44 ;) Jan 08 21:17:48 hold down ctrl alt delete Jan 08 21:17:48 b-man: even on Mer? Jan 08 21:17:56 have you tried turning it just on?) Jan 08 21:17:57 the menu is gone, i can click the icon, and it shows up, but theres no applications or anything Jan 08 21:18:04 and yea, i tried rebooting Jan 08 21:18:33 all menu items gone? or are some there? Jan 08 21:18:34 Have you installed something like Personal Menu? Jan 08 21:18:37 i cloned the os to the memory card, so i can boot off the internal and try to fix it Jan 08 21:18:46 Stslaptop: i have not tryed it in mer yet, but i'm shure it will work Jan 08 21:19:03 nope, didnt install personal menu, everything is gone, no categorys, no icons, just a grey box Jan 08 21:19:12 b-man: feel free to try it :) we had issues with it earlier Jan 08 21:19:18 .. because we have a broken pygtk atm Jan 08 21:19:19 its been ok for a long time off the card, just last night it crapped out on me Jan 08 21:19:28 JarodTLG, check the contents of "/home/user/.osso/menus/applications.menu" Jan 08 21:19:34 hehe Jan 08 21:19:46 cp /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu /home/user/.osso/menus/ Jan 08 21:20:15 :O omg i beat qwerty to posting something linuxy :D Jan 08 21:20:38 (i *only* know that because i needed to parse it to read the menu structures ;) Jan 08 21:20:53 * qwerty12_N800 awards lcuk with the linux northerner noobs award :p Jan 08 21:20:55 looks like a bunch of gibberish, not a normal menu or xml type file Jan 08 21:21:15 starts out ^B)q^A(U Jan 08 21:21:16 its meant to be xml Jan 08 21:21:59 then goes oncover_path^BU^Y/home/user/.canola/conversq^CU^Mdown Jan 08 21:22:13 not xml, or vi doesnt understand xml Jan 08 21:22:46 to my untrained eye that looks more like old fashioned crosslinked files Jan 08 21:23:16 on a unrelated note, how do you quit vi :) Jan 08 21:23:20 is anything else dodgy or do you recall an event which started this off Jan 08 21:23:24 :q Jan 08 21:23:58 yea, its no xml file, canola stopped working after a stupid move i made, installed beta10 by accident, which is broken Jan 08 21:24:15 and i had to use the installation cleanup tool to fix it. Jan 08 21:24:25 the menu still worked for a while tho Jan 08 21:24:47 because i checked and rolling back to canola2 beta9 fixed the not playing problem Jan 08 21:26:52 if i do like qwerty said and copy /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu overtop of the one in ~/.osso/menus can i put back the apps that i've installed somehow? Jan 08 21:26:57 Heh, MGTS *charges money* for its digital phonebook Jan 08 21:27:02 amazing Jan 08 21:27:59 JarodTLG, you could probably do "update-desktop-database" on reboot. But as you don't currently have a menu, you have nothing to lose ;) Jan 08 21:28:40 yea, its worth a shot, i'll cp it over from the internal and boot off the card and see what happens Jan 08 21:28:51 i'm on my pc now, so i'll let you know what it does Jan 08 21:30:06 RST38h: YouTube just banned my video because I had "unlicenced property of Linkin Park" in there Jan 08 21:30:23 heh Jan 08 21:30:27 and you probably had no music? Jan 08 21:30:28 RST38h: World gone mad Jan 08 21:31:23 i have a menu again Jan 08 21:31:36 Stslaptop: Well, I had, and unlicensed for true, but to care about low quality mono youtube video, that the author haven't payed for it - this is really ridiculous Jan 08 21:31:50 reminds me of http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/1/2/ Jan 08 21:34:44 ok, update-desktop-database, where should i point it? Jan 08 21:34:58 I wonder if 3/4 of YouTube videos are banned Jan 08 21:35:15 Cause most of them uses "unlicensed" music Jan 08 21:38:23 wazd: Screw Youtube Jan 08 21:38:46 aha, run as root. its fixed! Thanks a ton for your help everyone Jan 08 21:39:34 wazd: If you are embedding it anyway, upload to rutube.ru and forget. Jan 08 21:39:53 let 'em sue *that* Jan 08 21:40:06 RST38h: the worst thing that i'm not( Jan 08 21:40:31 RST38h, do russians get pissed off if anything they have created gets pirated? Jan 08 21:40:45 lcuk: They do but much less, they are realistic Jan 08 21:40:48 ie can i pirate your emulators? Jan 08 21:40:57 RST38h: "gun to your head"? :P Jan 08 21:41:12 lcuk: You can if 1) you manage to hack them and 2) you do not distribute them further Jan 08 21:41:30 (tis just an example of course, but the principle remains we are in a creative industry Jan 08 21:41:46 lcuk: you can definitely pirate my images :) Jan 08 21:41:48 Sts: naaah, although there have been a couple of relatively large and noisy legal outbreaks Jan 08 21:42:19 wazd :) put them under a CC license and make it official for everyone Jan 08 21:42:34 Sts: usually not bringing the plaintiff anything significant anyway Jan 08 21:42:49 ill drop the code as (l)gpl and we will see how far they get along :) Jan 08 21:42:57 wazd: I wonder if Wiki media project will take your video Jan 08 21:43:13 a collection of CC SA artwork for tablet could really be nice Jan 08 21:43:18 icons/wallpapers/etc Jan 08 21:43:25 yeah it would :) Jan 08 21:43:38 cos aesthetics is an area i'm absolute shite in Jan 08 21:43:39 Sts: Why not look at the existing artwork in Wiki? Jan 08 21:43:47 RST38h: huh? Jan 08 21:43:49 there are hundreds of icons there Jan 08 21:43:52 or you mean wikipedia Jan 08 21:43:58 I mean wikipedia of course Jan 08 21:44:46 wazd, btw, now you have seen a glimmer of my example usage for the icons, do you understand why i was very interested in ensuring they scaled well Jan 08 21:46:31 lcuk: yep, but. Icons are made for special resolutions. Jan 08 21:47:09 They can't be resized properly to other reses Jan 08 21:47:28 sure they can : simple designs scale well Jan 08 21:48:10 SVG icons scale up to devices with high resolutions Jan 08 21:48:19 not so well to devices with low resolutions where you can actually see the pixels Jan 08 21:48:22 those need fine-tuning Jan 08 21:48:26 Minimalistic design is not very eye0catching Jan 08 21:48:46 but the world exists in multiple scales Jan 08 21:49:23 SVG icons can't use complex effects like shadows for example Jan 08 21:49:32 Even SVG won't help you if you haeve got tiny details there Jan 08 21:49:44 Unfortunately vector images have a rather large performance impact on low-power mobile devices. Jan 08 21:49:48 wazd: they can, actually, if renderer supports it Jan 08 21:49:57 General: Unless you cache them Jan 08 21:49:59 yeah GeneralAntilles my vector sketches dont work Jan 08 21:50:03 I think it will ruin the CPU) Jan 08 21:50:19 Symbian/S60 caches them, but not very well, at least not on my poor E70 Jan 08 21:50:35 * mgedmin was looking for a nice blog post with actual examples demonstrating why SVG isn't the one answer to rule them all Jan 08 21:50:42 * mgedmin can't find the link :( Jan 08 21:50:44 of course its not Jan 08 21:51:27 * lcuk never put in svg support to liqbase because then users would have expected mona lisa Jan 08 21:51:37 the postscript tiger Jan 08 21:51:42 For now, vector icons are useless for mobile UI's, cause on a mobile device the main factor is CPU load, which affects battery life and responsivity Jan 08 21:51:42 heh Jan 08 21:52:13 * mgedmin was floored when he first saw that one Jan 08 21:52:20 wazd, i can draw vector graphics faster and in a more battery efficient way than scaling a bitmap Jan 08 21:52:27 * mgedmin imagined, at the time, that people created postscript files by typing in the postscript commands by hand Jan 08 21:52:28 wazd: Ironically, Nokia's S60 uses SVG icons as a standard starting with S60e3 Jan 08 21:52:42 wazd: So, no, not useless Jan 08 21:52:54 speaking of which, google for the obfuscated postscript code contest Jan 08 21:53:00 mgedmin: i have a manual somewhere for postscript.. Jan 08 21:53:05 or at least, in my old room at my dads Jan 08 21:53:05 mgedmin: The Tiger is a reference image, but I have heard there is playable postscript tetris :) Jan 08 21:53:09 vector based flash animations work on machines which cannot even update the whole screen Jan 08 21:54:04 RST38h: Well, as I can see they are pretty simple ones Jan 08 21:54:37 wazd: That is mainly because of the low resolution Jan 08 21:54:44 I wonder how much CPU would it take to render that http://www.ischool.utexas.edu/technology/tutorials/graphics/iphoto5/images/iphoto5.gif Jan 08 21:54:56 wazd: Still, nokia solves the scaling problem this way Jan 08 21:55:01 for something that is going to be 1cm square for most of its life why do you need more detail? Jan 08 21:55:42 wazd, its a 256color gif.. wheres the svg? Jan 08 21:55:53 lcuk: Maybe for a rare case when you want to render it in 5cm scale when starting your app? :) Jan 08 21:56:18 yeah, you do the same as flash and liqbase : at lower res you reduce quality :) Jan 08 21:56:33 wazd: This image cannot be rendered as an .svg Jan 08 21:56:35 but you can do that with vector Jan 08 21:56:44 RST38h, sure it can Jan 08 21:56:49 wazd: it has got a bitmap inside Jan 08 21:56:57 would bring a dualcore to its knees though Jan 08 21:57:16 RST38h, its possible but not practical Jan 08 21:57:18 This pic was just an example of current level of detail in icons Jan 08 21:57:19 Unless .svg now allows textures Jan 08 21:57:37 wazd: But you do not really need this level of detail Jan 08 21:58:00 I, for once, do not need icons this detailed. Lemme see if I can find the SAME icon in SVG. A moment. Jan 08 21:58:01 RST38h: do I really need infinite scaling?) Jan 08 21:58:16 and anyway - i see that more as a widget :: a live image in the background owuld be better Jan 08 21:58:17 wazd: Well, you need 3-4 sizes, most of the time Jan 08 21:58:29 wazd: Doing them by hang is damn cumbersome though Jan 08 21:58:57 RST38h: iPhone, for example, needs 2. Standart and superlarge (for iTunes Store) Jan 08 21:59:04 So basicaly only one Jan 08 21:59:06 That is iPhone Jan 08 21:59:16 S60 needs 3 Jan 08 21:59:24 Maemo needs 3. Jan 08 21:59:35 Quallity of UI affects on how many different icons you need Jan 08 21:59:43 Windows is ok with 2, but I guess looks better with 4-5 Jan 08 21:59:45 And user cases ofcourse Jan 08 22:00:05 Not just quality but the number of different visual platforms Jan 08 22:00:13 Maemo will be ok with just 2, touch and stylus Jan 08 22:00:25 Same Windows, for example, may operate in 16 fixed colors or 256 colors or truecolor Jan 08 22:00:51 At different resolutions, from 320x240 to 1280x768 and higher Jan 08 22:01:05 There are som nice tries on desktops Jan 08 22:01:11 Of course you need scalable icons in such environment Jan 08 22:01:19 Some thought to use 3D icons Jan 08 22:01:59 if the engine is capabile, why not? Jan 08 22:02:07 capable even Jan 08 22:03:15 Right now Win and OS X are already using some 3D effects, so I think they can invite Carmack to make an "OS3D engine" for them :) Jan 08 22:03:56 3d desktop paradigm doesnt fit for most people Jan 08 22:04:07 not 3d desktop Jan 08 22:04:16 just rendering methods Jan 08 22:04:25 but using the 3d renderer efficiently for drawing is desirable Jan 08 22:04:29 There is alrady a Carmackian 3D window manager for Linux Jan 08 22:04:34 But may I ask something? Jan 08 22:04:35 they already do that though Jan 08 22:04:52 What does having 3D icons or 3D workspace actually give you in terms of productivity? Jan 08 22:04:58 RST38h: well, Compiz is more showcase that actual usability) Jan 08 22:05:11 And if it is mainly eyecandy, then is it worth spending resources on? Jan 08 22:06:49 RST38h: I would imagine some infinite zooming desktop, where you can set the size of the icons you want, so you can make some icon piles :) Jan 08 22:07:11 Yes, true, in fact one guy at out university worked on this kind of desktop Jan 08 22:07:23 Very intuitive way of arrangement :) Jan 08 22:07:31 errr...have to disagree on compiz not aiding productivity Jan 08 22:08:02 wazd :) Jan 08 22:08:05 already up? jesus, you don't sleep much, johnx? :P Jan 08 22:08:20 morning(?) johnx Jan 08 22:08:29 seeing wife off to work, then might catch some more sleep :) Jan 08 22:08:46 johnx, you havent been to bed yet since you vanished 4 hours ago :P Jan 08 22:08:57 lcuk, have actually :P Jan 08 22:09:48 ok, have you slept Jan 08 22:10:06 So 3D desktops are good in the right hands :) Jan 08 22:11:37 But not on the mobile devices for now, cause the penalty is too big Jan 08 22:11:45 lcuk, I have, actually, for around 3 hours Jan 08 22:11:55 * Stslaptop brews johnx a pot of coffee Jan 08 22:12:06 * lcuk adds sugar to it Jan 08 22:12:10 * wazd brews jonx Jan 08 22:12:15 lcuk, Stslaptop, appreciated but I'm already working on that :) Jan 08 22:12:27 wazd, O_o :P Jan 08 22:12:32 xD Jan 08 22:12:58 Best way to wake) Jan 08 22:13:10 hmmm...the one thing I'd want in a 3D desktop on a handheld is a nice expose-style "wall of live window previews" that I could touch Jan 08 22:13:23 That's 2D Jan 08 22:13:27 wazd: The weird thing is that I am looking at this shiny 3D MacOSX desktop is all I see is 10+ years old CDE Jan 08 22:13:45 use the accel to show direct overlay Jan 08 22:13:48 Ok, the icons are shinier and they jump. Big deal. Jan 08 22:13:51 @johnx; lol, no coffie yet? :) Jan 08 22:13:59 wazd, then why is it never done with 2D desktops...and I mean, never Jan 08 22:14:07 RST38h: It's mostly 3D effects there) Jan 08 22:14:15 RST38h: 2D* Jan 08 22:14:20 What is the point in them then? Jan 08 22:14:39 RST38h: eye candy) Jan 08 22:14:41 RST38h, to sell computers Jan 08 22:14:43 And aside from contextual zooming, is there any point in making desktop 3D? (btw, contextual zooming is also 2D) Jan 08 22:14:49 johnx: And apart from that? Jan 08 22:15:35 RST38h, on desktops I enjoy the 4-desktop view and wobbly windows that stick to screen edges for easier arrangement Jan 08 22:15:39 RSAT38h:If we'll use 3d models for icons, as we discussed before, than it'd be 3D) Jan 08 22:16:11 and yes, the wobbly bit does provide feedback as to what it's "attached" to Jan 08 22:16:36 Apple has no other goals than to sell hardware :) Jan 08 22:16:44 but with a limited-multitasking, fullscreen window manager, you're right, I don't see much point Jan 08 22:16:51 Everything works for that :) Jan 08 22:17:05 john, you are obsessed with having your wobbly windows stick to the edges :P Jan 08 22:17:38 lcuk, it's good feedback and it helps with organization Jan 08 22:18:06 The bad example of "how UI FX's should not be done" is an iPhone apparently Jan 08 22:18:14 sticky windows is good in its place, but it interupts where the direct mouse placement lives on the frame you are moving Jan 08 22:18:31 lcuk, hence wobbly :P Jan 08 22:18:44 Apple has sacrificed multitasking for jumpling pins Jan 08 22:18:44 so if you are holding with stylus right in centre of a square and it is pulled or pushed off centre it screws you mind - its simpler with a mouse and less noticable Jan 08 22:19:24 damn, I'm starting to miss the keys :) Jan 08 22:19:44 apple has sacrificed multitasking because its not required (and also not practical to have the UI opening multiple instances and windows) Jan 08 22:20:05 lcuk: that's what they said to you :) Jan 08 22:20:11 incidentally, clutter is single instance as well Jan 08 22:20:31 Not required? From who's point of view? Jan 08 22:20:39 lcuk: Who needs radio/stylus/multitasking?) Jan 08 22:20:43 from the millions of ppl with phones Jan 08 22:20:50 bollocks Jan 08 22:21:04 wazd: But what are you gonna do with 3D icons? Rotate them ? =) Jan 08 22:21:04 lcuk, "not required" and "too hard to do right" aren't the same thing Jan 08 22:21:08 lcuk: you cant chat in ICQ/Jabber and surf the web Jan 08 22:21:30 heh. like when macs didn't have real multitasking.. Jan 08 22:21:31 :D heh good point entirely johnx Jan 08 22:21:40 wazd: I mean, icons are basically road signs and road signs, for all their physical reality, are not 3D Jan 08 22:21:45 or download something in the background, IIRC ... but that doesn't matter because you can't download files Jan 08 22:22:27 can't download files with what? Jan 08 22:22:28 * RST38h kinda remembers that Macs also did not have real memory management =) Jan 08 22:22:32 does the media player carry on with music whilst you play with other apps? Jan 08 22:22:39 iPhone doesn't have multitasking cause it can't do it Jan 08 22:22:45 tank-man, iphone? am I wrong? Jan 08 22:22:53 it's UI eats too much CPU Jan 08 22:23:01 its ui is driven by powervr Jan 08 22:23:05 the cpu is idle Jan 08 22:23:07 ish Jan 08 22:23:32 Well, then OS X eaths too much CPU, okay :)) Jan 08 22:23:48 if it ate too much cpu the battery life would be really poor Jan 08 22:23:51 iPhone does have multitasking Jan 08 22:23:51 wazd, I'm not convinced of that. I bet they were worried about the same kind of things that cause "battery drain" posts on ITT: badly behaved apps Jan 08 22:23:54 There are multitasking software on jailbroken iPhones Jan 08 22:24:05 And it runs like crap Jan 08 22:24:09 Apple does not allow background apps, but it is NOT the same as not having multitasking Jan 08 22:24:10 the core system can multitask, it just has no functionality to multitask user apps Jan 08 22:24:27 it is not really a technical problem but a policy problem Jan 08 22:24:36 bit of both RST38h Jan 08 22:24:44 RST38h: ofcourse OSX supports and does it sometimes, but we're simplifing :) Jan 08 22:24:52 lcuk: you can fork() on iPhone Jan 08 22:24:58 lcuk: so technically it is no problem Jan 08 22:25:06 but you cant both be drawing to the graphics surface at the same time Jan 08 22:25:18 so you would need some way to handle that part Jan 08 22:25:28 lcuk: That is true for many, MANY platform Jan 08 22:25:33 Starting with Windows :) Jan 08 22:25:35 on linux we have x11 to handle that for us Jan 08 22:25:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeKXksLEYo8 Jan 08 22:25:57 UI demos of Pre, BTW Jan 08 22:25:58 Ah, lcuk, on most ARM platforms framebuffer is just an area of memory Jan 08 22:26:08 but this isnt most devices Jan 08 22:26:12 its the powervr Jan 08 22:26:17 So "not being able to write at the same time" is mostly hypothetical :) Jan 08 22:26:24 and the framework for doing it Jan 08 22:26:50 There ARE cases where you write may interfere with the video DMA Jan 08 22:27:06 For those you need some API to know where video DMA currently is Jan 08 22:27:26 you just need a render queue, but thats hypothetical Jan 08 22:27:32 since we arent apple engineers Jan 08 22:27:48 wow wazd :) it does look simple enough Jan 08 22:28:02 You do not need a render queue Jan 08 22:29:06 You need windows (i.e. x,y,w,h,stride) + locking + you have to promise not to shit outside your window boundaries Jan 08 22:29:12 "It's so simple that the only thing you can see is gorgeous wallpaper". What's the point of seeing the wallpaper?) Jan 08 22:29:42 wazd: The rest of the UI is a quick iPhone knockoff but the wallpaper is different. That is the point. Jan 08 22:30:17 hehe Jan 08 22:30:24 talking of palm 2.0: the turd? Jan 08 22:30:40 hey, there's a hardware keyboard. I'll give them benefit of the doubt Jan 08 22:30:52 * RST38h would not call it the turd, but it does call to mind a certain mountain giving birth to a mouse... Jan 08 22:31:15 johnx: This is no longer a distinguishing factor though. Jan 08 22:31:25 RST38h: it's the iphone 1.5y after the iphone with no promise of native apps Jan 08 22:31:34 johnx: If they had e70-style fold out keyboard, I would look twice. Jan 08 22:31:46 RST38h: and apparently a sprint only thing too? not a company saver Jan 08 22:31:50 RST38h, I know you hated Palm from a development perspective, but I'm a big fan of what they were doing with their UI Jan 08 22:32:12 * RST38h does not hate Palm, Palm's UI was pretty nice Jan 08 22:32:28 The problem was *the rest* of the OS Jan 08 22:32:56 If they took the original Palm UI, made it into a library and moved it to Linux backend, I would be the first to applaud Jan 08 22:33:06 Instead, the knocked off iPhone. Again. Jan 08 22:34:57 Ah! My task swithcer! (almost) Jan 08 22:35:07 Goddamn( Jan 08 22:35:27 "Throw away"(( Jan 08 22:36:50 there's some lisp stuck in your chat Jan 08 22:37:07 * b-man ponders why palm allwase stuck with a 10+ year old UI :p Jan 08 22:38:18 * wazd wonders if he can sue Palm with using invented gesture :) Jan 08 22:40:52 b-man, because they did it right the first time Jan 08 22:41:57 * GeneralAntilles cared for Palm. Jan 08 22:42:04 s/cared/never cared/ :P Jan 08 22:44:36 GeneralAntilles, weren't in the market for a PDA ten years ago? Jan 08 22:44:49 Damn, I'm really depressed... Site is useless, UI is stolen :( Jan 08 22:44:55 johnx|not-awake: i wonder how difficult it would be to take non-hildon apps, and instead of hildonizing them, full screening them instead? Jan 08 22:45:00 Used an M105 for a while Jan 08 22:45:06 Friends had a lot of Clies Jan 08 22:45:23 It just doesn't compare to the PDA-ness of the Newton Jan 08 22:45:33 and it's not the mobile computer that I've always wanted (and got with Maemo). Jan 08 22:45:57 * qwerty12_N800 preferred winmo to palm Jan 08 22:46:09 Stslaptop, very easy Jan 08 22:46:22 qwerty12_N800, and pondering what kind of effect it could have Jan 08 22:46:34 Stslaptop, we could, but most have a fullscreen option already Jan 08 22:46:50 * b-man nods Jan 08 22:47:25 yeah, but i'm thinking in terms of stripping away decorations and just have it fill the screen, and allow one to switch apps back with the home button Jan 08 22:47:29 kinda like how it is with games Jan 08 22:47:46 and bring more apps to the tablets that way Jan 08 22:47:59 /m ponders on how he can improve merinstaller Jan 08 22:48:43 * b-man ponders on how he can improve merinstaller - sorry :p Jan 08 22:48:50 b-man: a quick going over with a spell check always improves things, and trying to find out if other N810 users have the internal/external check reversed, or if Meiz's tablet is just odd Jan 08 22:50:07 * timeless looks up at the words 'spell check' Jan 08 22:50:15 spellcheck. Jan 08 22:50:16 :P Jan 08 22:50:22 lol Jan 08 22:50:31 or whatever. Jan 08 22:50:41 * Stslaptop 's caffeine level is getting dangerously low. Jan 08 22:50:43 oh, just wondering what you're checking Jan 08 22:50:49 i'm not complaining Jan 08 22:50:54 timeless: what users will see :P Jan 08 22:51:06 i think i need to advertise it a little more so people can test my installer ;) Jan 08 22:51:34 b-man: yeah.. i think the N810 thing needs to be investigated first Jan 08 22:51:36 sorry, i'll brb to ask about a url Jan 08 22:51:58 b-man: so we don't kill more sd cards Jan 08 22:52:09 hehe Jan 08 22:53:42 i think i'll put a poll up on iTT Jan 08 22:53:50 * b-man is fusterated, caffeine makes him sleepy :p Jan 08 22:54:37 Stslaptop; yah ;) Jan 08 22:57:32 ok, sorry Jan 08 22:57:40 can someone point me to a url i could read? Jan 08 23:02:23 Palm stock is way up from the dumpster Jan 08 23:02:29 * timeless is still confused Jan 08 23:02:38 could someone give me a url that explains what's going on? :) Jan 08 23:02:51 going on in what area? :P Jan 08 23:03:00 whatever this spell check thing is Jan 08 23:03:07 timeless, synopsis: b-man, Stslaptop and I talk about Mer. I and others talk about the new Palm thing from CES Jan 08 23:03:12 what's the feature/thing under discusion Jan 08 23:03:32 ok. i'm pretty sure i'm more interested in mer atm Jan 08 23:03:42 is there some url that actually needs a proof reading pass? Jan 08 23:03:49 it's a script :) Jan 08 23:03:51 about what? Jan 08 23:03:55 lol Jan 08 23:03:57 merinstaller Jan 08 23:04:56 http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26094 <- poll on if slot_name lies to us consistently or not Jan 08 23:05:15 cool :) Jan 08 23:09:37 at least we can point to a poll if we change around things if anyone complains we nuked their SD :P Jan 08 23:11:43 hehe Jan 08 23:18:19 rzr: regarding mer on 770, r2d2rogers is the guy to talk to about that Jan 08 23:18:23 since you asked about that earlier Jan 08 23:18:48 ho really ? that's good Jan 08 23:18:59 r2d2rogers: have you tested it ? Jan 08 23:19:37 Hi Jan 08 23:19:47 Are there any familar faces Jan 08 23:19:52 GeneralAntilles Jan 08 23:19:57 Qwerty12 Jan 08 23:20:08 highlighting people randomly is a bit rude :) Jan 08 23:20:28 I was checking if xchat worked Jan 08 23:20:33 normally people say hi when they are on and recognize you :) Jan 08 23:20:34 XChat works Jan 08 23:20:34 hehe, okay Jan 08 23:20:44 Yes, thanks. Jan 08 23:20:58 yeah, this does look better than pidgin Jan 08 23:21:12 your first step into a larger world :) Jan 08 23:21:45 This is my first step into IRC Jan 08 23:23:53 * GeneralAntilles chuckles some more at the cellphone people on itT. Jan 08 23:24:22 ? Jan 08 23:24:30 GeneralAntilles, the cellphone people on the open pandora forums are better O_o Jan 08 23:25:30 HI Jan 08 23:25:51 Hi. Jan 08 23:26:32 johnx|not-awake, it's a bizarre mindset to me. Jan 08 23:28:05 GeneralAntilles, from a purely aesthetic standpoint I could almost see it working on an n800 with different speaker/mic placement...but the pandora is a laptop-style device Jan 08 23:28:33 The whole "IT MUST BE A PHONE OS OR IT WILL DIE!!!!" thing is just weird. Jan 08 23:29:31 well, it probably needs a 3G modem to be viable at very least Jan 08 23:30:16 Fun stuff: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3519#c27 Jan 08 23:30:19 and being what it is, it will be a niche product if it's not also a phone... Jan 08 23:30:37 PHONE PHONE WE WANT PHONE Jan 08 23:31:08 WHO SAID PHONE?! Jan 08 23:31:23 johnx|not-awake, well, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Jan 08 23:31:24 GeneralAntilles, he's somewhat right... Jan 08 23:31:28 General: I have promised to myself to abstain from commenting on 3519 Jan 08 23:32:09 I'm slill thinking if it's convenient to use Pandora's touchscreen Jan 08 23:32:22 General: But off the record, let us just say that Quim is directly telling us all to shut up and stop pestering him with our "contributions" Jan 08 23:32:47 RST38h, pfft. Jan 08 23:32:50 GeneralAntilles, other people disagree about whether it's ok for Nokia to release a tablet that doesn't immediately take over the world. Some people have some kind of vested interest in the things they like being popular. some kind of validation of their choice or something Jan 08 23:32:52 i can sortof relate to the problem of that tablets need to be diverse from day 1.. if someone wants some ubuntu app in maemo, it should be easy as eating cake Jan 08 23:32:56 RST38h, try not to be so ridiculously reactionary. Jan 08 23:33:14 Go work on Mer instead and let Nokia develop its commercial product professionally Jan 08 23:33:33 General: I'm already trying my best, really. Jan 08 23:33:54 and, apparently, failing if that's what you think he actually "means".\ Jan 08 23:34:32 General: Well, there are several possible interpretations but they are all somewhere around what I have just said =( Jan 08 23:34:49 If you must try to pin it somebody, pin it on Nokia, not Quim. Jan 08 23:35:00 Because if anybody's fighting our cause in Nokia, it's him. Jan 08 23:35:06 General: Not blaming the messenger really Jan 08 23:35:38 GeneralAntilles, yeah, but keep in mind he's arguing Nokia's case to us. nothing to blame him for of course, just something to keep in mind Jan 08 23:35:46 [6:32pm] General: But off the record, let us just say that Quim is directly telling us all to shut up and stop pestering him with our "contributions" Jan 08 23:36:03 johnx|not-awake, it's not a one-way street. Jan 08 23:36:11 General: Well, the comment *is* from Quim. But he is obviously representing Nokia Jan 08 23:36:37 Either way, the reality is a lot less nefarious and malicious than you seem to be making it out to be. Jan 08 23:36:43 GeneralAntilles, of course not. just have to keep in mind Nokia has their own interests at heart, no ours, so we have to watch out for ourselves Jan 08 23:37:40 johnx|not-awake, watching out for our own interests doesn't involve seeing malice in every Nokia's every action. Jan 08 23:37:42 General: Nothing malicious here, just a statement of the fact that outside contributions to core system components are not gonna happen Jan 08 23:37:59 RST38h, that's BS. Jan 08 23:38:10 Two patches aren't going to be shipped for a deprecated platform. Jan 08 23:38:42 Which is another thing entirely from "no patches will be accepted" Jan 08 23:38:44 General: The Fremantle will get deprecated in 4-6 months since its release Jan 08 23:38:45 GeneralAntilles, with the current development model of Nokia, what we have in our hands is always "deprecated" Jan 08 23:38:49 Patches already HAVE been accepted. Jan 08 23:38:57 General: Which ones? Jan 08 23:39:11 Most recently, the series of patches to h-a-m. Jan 08 23:39:21 App manager? Jan 08 23:39:23 the categories ones? Jan 08 23:39:30 That is not a core system component Jan 08 23:39:41 The package management isn't a platform component? Jan 08 23:39:48 Bugzilla's layout would seem to disagree with you. Jan 08 23:40:07 johnx|not-awake, that's why Nokia is working on changing their workflow. Jan 08 23:40:10 h-a-m is a UI wrapper for apt-get Jan 08 23:40:19 GeneralAntilles, I'll believe it when I see it. not before. Jan 08 23:40:21 It is not a core system component Jan 08 23:40:28 * GeneralAntilles throws up his hands. Jan 08 23:40:34 They ran out of "benefit of the doubt" credit with me Jan 08 23:40:37 Bleh Jan 08 23:40:38 Core system components are kernel, drivers, crucial daemons, x11 Jan 08 23:40:41 Suit yourselves Jan 08 23:41:00 * RST38h already said more than he was going to, sorry Jan 08 23:41:23 kernel? igor suggested linux-omap which is fair :P Jan 08 23:44:17 coffee worked? Jan 08 23:44:30 yeah, will stay up and hack Jan 08 23:44:53 all right, 2:44, time to sleep Jan 08 23:45:04 'night RST38h Jan 08 23:45:08 g'night Jan 08 23:45:18 g'day Jan 08 23:45:37 see ya RST38h Jan 08 23:45:47 ok, palm pre is kind of impressing me Jan 08 23:45:54 I have 2:28 somehow) Jan 08 23:46:15 wazd, in the twilight timezone Jan 08 23:46:34 lol Jan 08 23:48:34 * b-man trys looking in engadget to see why people are excited about palm Jan 08 23:48:59 b-man, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6l0birqeig&feature=channel Jan 08 23:49:50 * b-man goes eats dinner Jan 08 23:52:47 I wonder if all those modern OS'es are resolution-independent Jan 08 23:54:51 the maemo wiki is very interesting Jan 08 23:54:54 wazd, os x on the desktop is getting there. I know nothing about iphone. android is pretty close to resolution independent Jan 08 23:58:34 wazd, it's supposedly on the roadmap for Maemo. Jan 08 23:59:31 wonder how they plan to do that ... Jan 09 00:00:22 johnx, dunno, I saw it mentioned a while ago, so maybe it's not longer true. Jan 09 00:04:35 The only Android problem is the wallpaper :) Jan 09 00:05:18 BTW, General, Do you know anything bout maemo.org revamping? Jan 09 00:05:47 wazd, the style's been finalized Jan 09 00:05:54 Layouts are still largely under discussion Jan 09 00:06:00 wazd, see maemo-community and the wiki Jan 09 00:06:17 https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org Jan 09 00:06:51 Thanks, I deffinetely should read more( Jan 09 00:08:04 wazd, subscribe to maemo-community and drop in for the monthly sprint meetings and you'll be set. Jan 09 00:08:08 Cause I've made a mockup when the train was gone( Jan 09 00:08:09 http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/ Jan 09 00:08:59 I'll do it Jan 09 00:10:36 Is finalized design available or it's hidden?) Jan 09 00:11:58 It's available Jan 09 00:12:02 Let me dig up the link Jan 09 00:12:28 Thanks a lot! Jan 09 00:12:50 Slightly messy HTML: http://openbossa.andrecunha.com/maemo/ Jan 09 00:13:23 Maybe slightly outdated proper mockup: http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:HOME510.png Jan 09 00:14:33 Thanks, see it Jan 09 00:14:50 What do you think bout that http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0901/13/2356c7c98e4e.png Jan 09 00:16:08 Looks good Jan 09 00:16:10 little baren Jan 09 00:16:12 but nice Jan 09 00:17:37 Minimalism is the best style to start a big project) Jan 09 00:17:50 You can always fill it with media Jan 09 00:20:58 Damn, you had a meeting yesterday! I totally suck ((( Jan 09 00:21:54 maemo-community is the best list to keep tabs on stuff. ;) Jan 09 00:22:02 SPAM Jan 09 00:22:04 :) Jan 09 00:23:21 As for design I should say I don't like it ( And that's the worst thing :( Jan 09 00:23:52 wazd, be more on top of things when the next redesign rolls around for Maemo 7. :P Jan 09 00:23:55 Also: http://maemo.org/community/council Jan 09 00:24:50 darn, I really want an omap3 device in my hands now O_o Jan 09 00:25:30 johnx, don't we all. :( Jan 09 00:25:42 * GeneralAntilles would've preferred the Elephanta route, I think. Jan 09 00:26:34 you'll be happy they spent time picking the bugs out of the omap3 I think :) Jan 09 00:27:13 elephanta would have been a 2D UI for the rx-51 and rx-34/4x I bet... Jan 09 00:27:14 Damn apple.com, why everybody tries to copy it :( Jan 09 00:27:53 johnx, I'm so bored with my N800. :( Jan 09 00:28:05 GeneralAntilles, that's because it mostly works for you :) Jan 09 00:29:41 I need moar powar Jan 09 00:31:26 beowulf cluster Jan 09 00:31:30 its the only way Jan 09 00:32:01 yeah, my other devices are going to suffer a serious lack of love when I have something omap3 powered in my hands I think :/ Jan 09 00:32:33 ive got a more powerful computer sitting infront of me than my 810 Jan 09 00:32:53 but i cannot touch it Jan 09 00:33:06 I should do something Jan 09 00:33:22 lcuk, take it out of the cardboard box? Jan 09 00:34:13 heh johnx, i meant my desktop, its not the power that this device has that is important. its the form factor and fact i can literally touch my code Jan 09 00:35:01 I should do all the templates faster than Glaubert!) Jan 09 00:35:08 lcuk, of course. I was just being snarky. :) but every omap3 device running linux that I know about has a touch screen Jan 09 00:35:35 i wanna go potty Jan 09 00:35:43 i think i just wet myself a little Jan 09 00:35:57 :D this is gonna be kickass Jan 09 00:36:43 how much do ti charge for dev boards and reference designs? Jan 09 00:37:14 more than a beagleboard :) Jan 09 00:37:42 ref-designs are super-expensive Jan 09 00:37:52 but a beagle is not a boxed unit Jan 09 00:37:54 the beagle is pretty much TI's de-facto "community" dev board, and the design for it is open, IIRC Jan 09 00:37:56 i could not take that out Jan 09 00:38:09 I wanted to buy an e-ink e-book ref to bouild my own Jan 09 00:38:10 dev boards don't come in a box either :P Jan 09 00:38:22 errr...s/box/case/ Jan 09 00:38:25 lcuk, just wait for the RX-51 or get a Pandora Jan 09 00:38:28 the ti reference designs are cased Jan 09 00:38:38 huh, interesting Jan 09 00:38:47 It was about $5000 to order Jan 09 00:38:57 pandora form factor doesnt appeal for now, but that might change Jan 09 00:38:57 there's a beagle case as well of course. it's even clear plastic so you can paint it any way you want :) Jan 09 00:39:44 lcuk, I'm sure you can get your hand on a developer device. Jan 09 00:40:39 yeah, this x86 tablet isnt doing it for me in the same way an actual handheld does Jan 09 00:40:53 Gross Jan 09 00:40:59 its great in its place but i cant lug it about, im gonna have it showing my recent sketches :) Jan 09 00:41:17 constantly updating and floating up and around the big screen :) Jan 09 00:41:47 can also use it to make new ones and stuff Jan 09 00:42:07 * johnx is very interested that of all the newest gen of smart phone OSes, Apple's lets you get closest to the metal Jan 09 00:42:08 and cos they will be synced and in harmony ill never lose another note again :) Jan 09 00:42:56 johnx, different reason, android has to stay away from metal due to multiple arch Jan 09 00:43:26 and palm learned their lesson on 1) crashy apps taking down the system and 2) getting tied to the m68k for 10+ years Jan 09 00:43:39 we have seen this palm os now, its very sweet Jan 09 00:43:53 but what we dont know is performance - if its a battery killer Jan 09 00:44:39 Why would it be? Jan 09 00:45:10 it'll probably idle fine, but html rendering is a heavy task no matter what kind of CPU you have Jan 09 00:46:56 If I'm earning money for making websites, my vote counts?) Jan 09 00:49:28 I can make another functional template along with Glaubert and then you'll compare. Or I can help Glaubert. Jan 09 00:50:08 Damn, I've made such a great fault :( Jan 09 00:50:53 wazd, well, dive in. Jan 09 00:51:02 dneary, Jaffa and timsamoff are the ones to be talking to. Jan 09 00:51:38 Oh, I can write Tim, I'm already have a chat with him bout guidelines and stuff :) Jan 09 00:52:12 I really want to help Maemo somehow, don't know actually why, but I definitely want :) Jan 09 00:53:24 wazd, you already are :) your new year presentation helped focus at least my mind :) and you layout and discussions are elevating Jan 09 00:54:30 wazd, if only we had some more coders to implement your UI ideas. Jan 09 00:54:49 more ui ideas? Jan 09 00:54:56 * timeless still needs to write up two ideas Jan 09 00:55:08 http://tabletui.wordpress.com/ Jan 09 00:55:19 Very nice to hear it, really :) Jan 09 00:55:21 GeneralAntilles, :) they will come Jan 09 00:55:44 That series was a real competition for me Jan 09 00:55:50 For the time being we're kinda stuck waiting on Nokia. Jan 09 00:56:16 waiting on everyone Jan 09 00:56:49 i wanted to be further on now and have enough to be able to get a few involved in bashing out this api and stuff whilst i get on with other things Jan 09 00:57:05 The biggest surprise was an "applications menu" post cause it was a real "pass thru" post for me, just to post something that day) Jan 09 00:57:41 And it got such a huge resonance) Jan 09 00:57:51 its an important aspect Jan 09 00:59:32 I really wanted to make more detailed mock-ups but pre-new year week was a real bad time :( Jan 09 01:00:06 what im pondering is better than that :) Jan 09 01:01:59 But I got really crazy blog statistics in december, 5000 visitors :) Jan 09 01:02:49 wazd, could you do me a favour Jan 09 01:02:55 sure Jan 09 01:03:16 would you make a zip of as many of your graphic primatives at expected size as possible Jan 09 01:03:59 the pieces of a desktop all jumbled up :) i wanna make a jigsaw Jan 09 01:05:02 Well, I've made 800x480 mockups, I can send them Jan 09 01:05:54 but when you are making your mockups do you not have little cutouts of all the pieces Jan 09 01:06:33 nope Jan 09 01:06:41 I can make them though) Jan 09 01:06:49 http://s42.radikal.ru/i097/0901/f9/23ee6b0e1aab.png - thats the original Jan 09 01:06:51 ahhh cool Jan 09 01:07:00 the class im trying to build at the moment is the cell class. it is the tile which every UI element sits upon. in the released liqbase this class had a feature limitation, its what im trying to fix at the moment. Jan 09 01:07:39 i keep collecting pieces of real life apps and programs and know the libliqbase backend now handles pretty much everything i need Jan 09 01:07:42 http://liqbase.net/liq.20090109_002624.lib.scr.png Jan 09 01:08:01 You can open fullscreen it on your tablet and pretend you're having Fremantle wanabe : ))) Jan 09 01:08:42 i have full color ttf fonts, loadable images, a fully dynamic sketch class and the cell will bind them all together Jan 09 01:08:56 Awesome Jan 09 01:09:04 wazd, liqbase and all its boxes can be styled and tasked to any purpose Jan 09 01:10:18 the only thing I can task is my imagination( Jan 09 01:10:45 heh, my first task and confirmation that it has worked is to bring liqsketch to life in the new framework Jan 09 01:11:10 (with the improvements ive been rolling around head for the last 2 months) Jan 09 01:11:18 wazd, wouldn't it be funny if Nokia's UI turned out a lot like your mockups? :D Jan 09 01:11:22 liqreader is similar, but that will be its own application Jan 09 01:11:40 * GeneralAntilles waits impatiently for May. Jan 09 01:11:48 GeneralAntilles, :) wouldnt it be even funnier if the maemo turned out a lot like wazds :) Jan 09 01:11:58 the community maemo distro Jan 09 01:12:33 * lcuk waits impatiently for Mer. ;) Jan 09 01:12:49 Hrm, I should finish up EIPI's interview. Jan 09 01:13:31 I think it would be super-awesome) Jan 09 01:14:03 It's like to be shown on the TV at 2am :) Jan 09 01:14:24 Noone knows, but you're very proud of yourself) Jan 09 01:15:57 I've already pointed to the new Palm OS feature - flick up the app to close :) Jan 09 01:16:14 you dont flick on the screen though Jan 09 01:16:15 That was really funny to see :) Jan 09 01:16:26 oh yeah, sorry Jan 09 01:16:31 its the other thing you dont isnt it Jan 09 01:16:50 have you seen the full presentation? Jan 09 01:16:57 yep Jan 09 01:17:23 I like the concept of the cards, pretty intuitive Jan 09 01:17:24 certain things stood out to me, especially "when searching for contacts it checks local first, then your exchange server" Jan 09 01:17:45 well its not that new a concept though Jan 09 01:18:25 its just a ui ontop of it, its just widget rendering Jan 09 01:18:40 lcuk, yeah, we'll get that with tracker Jan 09 01:18:40 yep, but I think my "quick search" (1st in series) is even faster than that Jan 09 01:19:02 we could just compile up deskbar now but it might be too heavy for the omap2 ... Jan 09 01:19:22 you'll see all all the stuff about what you're typing Jan 09 01:19:29 no matter what it is Jan 09 01:20:07 The key is not to think "we should beat iPhone" when making hardware or software Jan 09 01:20:41 yeah Jan 09 01:20:58 In fact they haven't made so much new for those zillion years they were planning this device Jan 09 01:21:00 I was happy to see the palm-style menus remain intact largely Jan 09 01:21:30 I'm just surprised they finally managed to show something in the 11th hour Jan 09 01:21:47 The best thing I liked in the shown UI is quicklaunch and cards Jan 09 01:22:13 quichlaunch was pretty nice, true) Jan 09 01:22:22 quick* Jan 09 01:22:32 johnx :) and it was an impressive show Jan 09 01:22:58 using that touchscreen area that's not part of the LCD is a nice touch Jan 09 01:23:13 heh, didnt like the weading method Jan 09 01:23:20 having to do a swipe to read a bit more Jan 09 01:23:27 Well, that's not their invention in fact Jan 09 01:23:37 the web browser itself looked shite on 320*480 or whatever it was Jan 09 01:23:39 HTC Touch used that already Jan 09 01:23:45 of course not, but they utilize it well :) Jan 09 01:23:55 zaurus had it too, but it went to waste without gestures Jan 09 01:24:07 and anyways, palm had it first, a long time ago :) Jan 09 01:24:15 :) Jan 09 01:24:16 it was the grafiti area :) Jan 09 01:24:26 Palm had everything long time ago) Jan 09 01:24:51 then they coasted for 7 or so years Jan 09 01:25:11 so funny that they bought their whole treo line from another company and now they're phasing out their PDAs Jan 09 01:25:11 To bad that graffiti is gone for now Jan 09 01:25:28 yeah, but it messed with my mind. totally ruined my hand writing for a while Jan 09 01:25:54 And no backward compatibility thanks to Access :) Jan 09 01:26:23 ah, and no way to run garnet vm unless they port it to javascript. muahaha Jan 09 01:27:46 Well, I gotta go to have some sleep now. 4AM in Moscow :) Jan 09 01:27:58 yeah, get some sleep :) Jan 09 01:28:18 I shoud wake at 7 actually but thats ok) Jan 09 01:28:20 I'll stay up and crack the whip on lcuk to implement your UI ideas :) Jan 09 01:28:38 not me, im off to bed myself Jan 09 01:28:55 See you all guys :) Jan 09 01:29:11 gnite wazd Jan 09 01:29:27 me too, gnite chaps Jan 09 01:29:37 'night wazd lcuk :) Jan 09 01:29:53 g'night lcuk! Jan 09 01:56:41 Jan 09 02:06:53 ╔══╗─╔═════╦══╗ Jan 09 02:06:55 ║──║─║──║──║──║ Jan 09 02:06:56 ║──║─║──║──║──║ Jan 09 02:06:57 ║──╚═╣──║──║──╚═╗ Jan 09 02:06:59 ║────║─────║────║ Jan 09 02:07:00 ╚════╩═════╩════╝ Jan 09 02:12:46 Wahh!!! Jan 09 02:13:17 TheFatal: LOL!!!! :D Jan 09 02:14:39 ;) Jan 09 02:23:25 can any1 tell me if "hacker edition" can be installed on n810 ?? Jan 09 02:24:23 se puede poner hacker edition al n810 ? Jan 09 02:24:25 no. only for the 770. Jan 09 02:36:32 what is xulrunner ? Jan 09 02:36:44 part of the web browser Jan 09 02:37:23 so i should not delete them Jan 09 02:37:26 :P Jan 09 02:47:00 * b-man starts thinking of ways to tweek Ubuntu Jaunty Jan 09 02:48:28 johnx: do you think the keyboard problem might be related to the kernel? Jan 09 02:48:54 could you describe the "keyboard problem" again? Jan 09 02:49:01 do any of the buttons on the n800 work? Jan 09 02:49:15 s/work/work in X11/ Jan 09 02:49:15 johnx meant: do any of the buttons on the n800 work in X11? Jan 09 02:49:24 yes, the power buttun :) Jan 09 02:49:41 but i ment the virtual keyboard Jan 09 02:49:46 up and down on the d-pad don't work? Jan 09 02:49:53 nope Jan 09 02:50:15 the virtual keyboard keeps crashing my desktop Jan 09 02:50:46 yup. that and the d-pad not working are related. i had the same problem in debian at first Jan 09 02:51:16 it was related to a problem with HAL in debian, but it works fine for us in mer... Jan 09 02:51:40 matchbox-keyboard? Jan 09 02:51:52 I'll test it just to be sure Jan 09 02:54:05 johnx: eny luck? Jan 09 02:54:50 had to boot into mer. installing now Jan 09 02:58:46 how about now? :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 09 02:59:57 2009