**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 15 02:59:57 2009 Jan 15 03:07:35 * b-man thinks about making a installer for Ubuntu Jaunty... Jan 15 03:08:13 make things 1000 times easier for everyone :) Jan 15 03:08:24 would the installer allow dual boot Jan 15 03:08:32 or how would that work Jan 15 03:08:54 yes, it would make a bootmenu item Jan 15 03:09:45 and then automaticly reflash initfs for dual booting Jan 15 03:10:22 hmm easy to revert back? Jan 15 03:11:41 you would have to flash with stock initfs, but it shuld not be too hard Jan 15 03:11:58 hmm Jan 15 03:12:17 how do you flash with stock initfs Jan 15 03:13:13 you could use a computer or use initfs flasher Jan 15 03:14:04 (for maemo) Jan 15 03:14:57 hmm Jan 15 03:15:06 or use a other bootmenu Jan 15 03:15:49 yup Jan 15 03:17:08 i wouldnt mind trying ubuntu on here although i would think it woulld be slow Jan 15 03:17:43 not if you use plenty of swap ;) Jan 15 03:18:21 and install preload and insserv Jan 15 03:18:58 hmm Jan 15 03:19:13 i think i went overboard on swap here Jan 15 03:19:24 i gave it 384 megs Jan 15 03:19:39 i've used 400 :) Jan 15 03:19:42 how much swap would it need and what does insserv do Jan 15 03:19:51 i am running maemo now though Jan 15 03:20:43 insserv provides "parelel booting" - witch means that it orginizes startup scripts so the system boots faster. Jan 15 03:21:50 and to make slower prosesses start later in the boot prosess Jan 15 03:22:20 (comply with LSB) Jan 15 03:22:28 ah should i use that on my desktop Jan 15 03:22:49 its a quad core Jan 15 03:22:54 wow! Jan 15 03:23:02 that's cool :D Jan 15 03:23:04 what Jan 15 03:23:12 yeah its a shuttle Jan 15 03:23:46 how many ghz does it clock at? Jan 15 03:23:56 q6600 2.4ghz Jan 15 03:24:03 2 gigs of ram Jan 15 03:24:12 hm Jan 15 03:24:34 powerful graphics card? Jan 15 03:25:03 nah not yet cant afford it 6600gt Jan 15 03:26:16 what would you recommend to make it go faster Jan 15 03:26:17 lol Jan 15 03:26:29 preload or insserv Jan 15 03:26:50 hmm i guess preload adds programs to ram right Jan 15 03:27:41 yes... but over time it actually improves system performance by adjusting to your system automaticly Jan 15 03:27:50 what module adds parallel processing so it proccesses more than one program at once while booting Jan 15 03:29:04 it caches information about what programs you use Jan 15 03:29:17 and preloads them at startup Jan 15 03:29:31 so apps launch faster Jan 15 03:29:45 hmm yeah Jan 15 03:30:11 isnt there something that takes advazntage of all those cores Jan 15 03:31:21 not shure. Jan 15 03:31:38 * b-man needs to go - but will be back ;) Jan 15 03:32:33 ah alright well thanks i am reading up on it Jan 15 03:32:36 see ya Jan 15 03:51:48 i'm back again Jan 15 03:54:10 oh no Jan 15 03:54:41 what? Jan 15 04:02:03 hi, is there any built in function to send files by bluetooth, or i have to install an app? Jan 15 04:03:43 samd, File Manager Jan 15 04:04:22 tap and hold, >send, >va bluetooth Jan 15 04:05:39 GeneralAntilles b-man ight found it, thanks :) Jan 15 04:05:40 \ Jan 15 04:14:45 GeneralAntilles: how is it down there Florida?, its about -2 (-14 with winchill) here in Ohio and we have over a foot of snow on the ground with more comming :p Jan 15 04:15:13 No snow, but it's supposed to be down into the single digits in a few days. :(( Jan 15 04:15:22 I'm in the north end at the moment, though. Jan 15 04:15:29 a foot? You must be north of me. Jan 15 04:15:49 in Bowiling Green Ohio Jan 15 04:15:57 Columbus Jan 15 04:15:58 43402 Jan 15 04:16:03 haha Jan 15 04:16:07 43_2_02 Jan 15 04:16:25 ah :D Jan 15 04:17:45 * Mousey drives traffic into the channel Jan 15 04:18:00 GeneralAntilles: single digits in northern florida?!? Jan 15 04:18:15 b-man, yeah, Tallahassee. Jan 15 04:18:16 0_o Jan 15 04:18:24 Normally we see maybe high teens once or twice a year. Jan 15 04:18:30 Quite a cold snap. Jan 15 04:18:34 When I left Houston Sunday it was getting awfully chilly. Jan 15 04:21:30 the high here is only going to be 12 here tomorrow, and maybe 6 (with an actual low of -12) on Friday :p Jan 15 04:22:47 ditto. Should have stayed in Guam. Jan 15 04:22:55 * b-man wants to live in California or southern Florida XD Jan 15 04:23:52 besides, most of my family lives in california and florida :) Jan 15 04:37:02 hm. this is weird. i can't connect to my wireless G network....cant put all the characters for the WPA key in there. Jan 15 04:37:02 this is on the N810 Jan 15 04:37:21 is it taking it and just doesn't look like it? Jan 15 04:37:37 Mousey: No, I can't enter the key...I cant enter the whole key...one character short. Jan 15 04:37:40 oh hai! Jan 15 04:37:40 Hi Jan 15 04:39:45 *crickets* Jan 15 04:40:42 ah ha!! Jan 15 04:40:47 Gareth: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18929 Jan 15 04:43:20 Mousey: ah ha Jan 15 04:43:36 ^_^ Jan 15 04:43:45 i told u they were helpful here ^_^ Jan 15 04:49:19 Mousey: haha thanks Jan 15 06:41:15 hi Jan 15 06:47:22 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/15/ubuntu_cant_access_net/ Jan 15 06:47:24 Enjoy Jan 15 06:51:13 RST38h, newsflash: dumb people are dumb. the register is a troll. story at 11. Jan 15 06:54:29 for 3 days without anything but an n800, it's growing on me Jan 15 06:55:12 yigal, yeah, I was in the same situation a while ago Jan 15 06:55:22 it's not bad for lightweight stuff Jan 15 06:57:17 people are indeed morons Jan 15 06:58:30 I'm getting an iGo and am entering a doctoral program in physics I wan't to see if I can write 80% of my thesis on it :) Jan 15 06:58:49 RST38h, if you've ever seen the dell site, you have to *really work at it* to end up buying an ubuntu laptop for exactly the reason outlined in the story. Also worth considering: could you do s/Ubuntu/Mac/ and end up with the same result for that lady? Jan 15 06:59:09 hey Navi. what have you been up to? Jan 15 06:59:44 yigal, a little optimistic, but should be possible. just remember to back it up and don't trust your SD cards :) Jan 15 06:59:55 is there some odd dell promo? Jan 15 07:00:10 yigal, they sell ubuntu on laptops as officially supported Jan 15 07:00:44 mercurial remote server + external flash Jan 15 07:00:52 johnx: nuffin' much Jan 15 07:00:57 :) Jan 15 07:01:16 I've been up to a lot less then I've wanted to be up to Jan 15 07:01:22 You? Jan 15 07:02:03 lol Jan 15 07:02:07 Silly Dell Jan 15 07:02:12 Inspiron Mini 9 Jan 15 07:02:15 heh, Stskeeps and I are still working on Mer. :) It's getting to the point soon when we can start working on just packaging apps for it Jan 15 07:02:15 More Storage! Includes Windows XP! Jan 15 07:02:22 Mer? Jan 15 07:02:30 been under a rock? :P Jan 15 07:02:31 yuck Jan 15 07:02:45 I haven't kept up with itT Jan 15 07:02:51 the Hildon (aka Maemo) UI on top of Ubuntu ARM Jan 15 07:02:58 or however that acronym is cased Jan 15 07:03:01 ~mer Jan 15 07:03:02 from memory, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint Jan 15 07:03:02 except not hacked up like my debian thing Jan 15 07:03:05 Oh, that's cool Jan 15 07:03:09 I guess Jan 15 07:03:26 runs on n800, zaurus and x86 so far Jan 15 07:03:33 Oh, that thing Jan 15 07:03:41 I didn't know it was given a name Jan 15 07:03:51 who would do that to themselves, sorry devs I guess interesting, windows? Jan 15 07:04:03 Do what to themselves? Jan 15 07:04:04 it was re-maemo for a while, but we didn't want another discussion about what the name should be Jan 15 07:04:22 ha Jan 15 07:04:38 That reminds me of this one OSS software dealie Jan 15 07:05:07 They spent all of December electing representatives, rather than actively develop on the project Jan 15 07:05:25 and they missed the date that they announced for a release Jan 15 07:06:00 is phonelink actively being worked on? Jan 15 07:06:12 well, luckily the people who like hacking on Mer and the people who like pointless arguments tend to be pretty mutually exclusive Jan 15 07:06:23 Woo Jan 15 07:06:37 :) Jan 15 07:06:47 Except GeneralAntilles Jan 15 07:06:59 he's our ... uhm ... PR rep :D Jan 15 07:07:25 Ah, so he has to speak the language to get the message across Jan 15 07:07:29 I see Jan 15 07:07:30 I feel this as the dev channel :) Jan 15 07:07:58 #maemo-user? Jan 15 07:08:02 The last release of phonelink was a while ago Jan 15 07:08:05 Navi, the "language" is a frozen trout that I beat people about the head and shoulders with. :P Jan 15 07:08:18 yigal, it's fine to ask here, but I don't know anything about phonelink :) Jan 15 07:08:49 Aw Jan 15 07:08:58 Maemo's svn browser blows Jan 15 07:09:00 we do the good cop, bad cop thing. GA hits people with a frozen trout (or carp as the situation requires), then wazd shows them gorgeous mockups and wallpapers: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/ Jan 15 07:09:15 Ha Jan 15 07:09:20 Navi, you try WebKit? Jan 15 07:09:20 fare, I'm dealing with a beast of an evil creature called blackberry Jan 15 07:09:42 GeneralAntilles: on the desktop, yes Jan 15 07:09:59 * GeneralAntilles beats Navi about the head and shoulders with a frozen trout. Jan 15 07:10:00 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/webkit-eal/ Jan 15 07:10:02 Doesn't show the last update dates on the svn browser Jan 15 07:10:09 Oh, we're back to the EAL thing? Jan 15 07:10:11 Inertial scrolling Jan 15 07:10:17 Well, there's also Tear Jan 15 07:10:22 but that's marginally less stable. Jan 15 07:10:37 GeneralAntilles, had some updates recently. did you try the latest version? Jan 15 07:10:51 johnx, Tear? No. Jan 15 07:10:55 Tear as in, this software is sad? Jan 15 07:11:03 Something like that. Jan 15 07:11:06 or Tear as in, this screen tears a lot. Jan 15 07:11:06 I think so. that's the icon Jan 15 07:11:19 Either will work, but one is funnier Jan 15 07:11:20 latest SSU fixed a lot of screen tearing issues Jan 15 07:11:28 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24293 Jan 15 07:11:29 for an end user is fennec something to consider? Jan 15 07:11:33 but before that, yes it could scroll fast enough to cause screen tearing Jan 15 07:11:36 yigal: nah Jan 15 07:11:39 yigal, not yet Jan 15 07:11:51 yigal, give it a couple more months. Jan 15 07:11:59 or give it a new CPU :) Jan 15 07:12:05 My tablet hasn't been turned on in a while Jan 15 07:12:17 ok, I'm not unhappy with/ Jan 15 07:12:19 I wish these people would get their stuff into Extras so I'd didn't have to pay attention for updates. Jan 15 07:12:30 GeneralAntilles: dude Jan 15 07:12:43 Did you not know that the concept of a centralized repository is dumb? Jan 15 07:13:03 I mean, that just saps all the work you have to do to keep things updated Jan 15 07:13:08 No fun at all Jan 15 07:13:11 :( Jan 15 07:13:21 You enjoy self-flagulation, don't you? Jan 15 07:13:22 GeneralAntilles, ever tried to build a browser in diablo scratchbox? Jan 15 07:13:31 GeneralAntilles: I am very masochistic Jan 15 07:13:37 johnx, nope, but I love telling other people they should. :P Jan 15 07:13:45 Luls Jan 15 07:13:55 Thankfully, he's stopped bugging me \o/ Jan 15 07:14:48 anyways, that's the other big thing about Mer. Stskeeps has done insane amounts of work to get us a scratchbox based SDK with recent compilers and recent versions of libraries, that mostly match up to ubuntu Jan 15 07:14:58 johnx, did you catch: http://public.smi.ethz.ch/files/MaemoOpenmoko/PublicDescriptiveStatistics.html ? Jan 15 07:15:12 johnx: sexy Jan 15 07:15:17 do any of you devs actually use modest for mail? Jan 15 07:15:28 yigal: not all of us are devs Jan 15 07:15:35 some of us are just here to troll and spam Jan 15 07:15:44 yigal, yes. with gmail imap. but I'm not really a dev so much as a sys admin who got lost Jan 15 07:15:53 wanna be ;) Jan 15 07:15:57 I use Modest a lot Jan 15 07:16:11 well, on the go Jan 15 07:16:41 johnx: same with me and imap gmail, just wondering Jan 15 07:16:43 which reminds me, any suggestions for a good data-only plan that won't burn a hole in my pocket? Jan 15 07:17:17 Navi, move to Baltimore, MD and pick up a wimax n810 before they disappear Jan 15 07:17:18 at&t 60$/month ;P Jan 15 07:17:20 Yeah, I use Modest a lot with Gmail IMAP Jan 15 07:17:28 johnx: why? Jan 15 07:17:44 Navi, they're end-of-lifed Jan 15 07:17:47 Navi, it's $30/mo for a PDA-plan that'd go with something like an RX-51 Jan 15 07:18:13 GeneralAntilles, really think they'll let the rx-51 have a PDA plan and not make it use a usb adapter plan? Jan 15 07:18:25 johnx, I dunno. Jan 15 07:18:33 I have zero experience with their data-only stuff. Jan 15 07:18:42 If not, I'm going to be a little pissed, though. ;) Jan 15 07:18:48 no bt that would be bad Jan 15 07:18:52 johnx: that was pretty fast Jan 15 07:19:17 What do they charge for UMPCs with 3G modems? Jan 15 07:19:25 yigal, no BT in? Jan 15 07:19:26 over 1k? Jan 15 07:19:34 UMPCs are too damned expensive Jan 15 07:19:36 Navi, well, the mobile wimax kit is only rolled out in Baltimore. they delayed their DC rollout and the Portland network somehow doesn't work quite right with the n810we apparently (?) Jan 15 07:19:54 zomg Jan 15 07:19:57 Navi, er, what does AT&T charge for a data-only plan for them. ;) Jan 15 07:20:00 GeneralAntilles: tethering options for data plans Jan 15 07:20:03 GeneralAntilles: ah Jan 15 07:20:12 60/mo or so? Jan 15 07:20:17 yigal, with AT&T you can usually tether with the non-tethering plans. Jan 15 07:20:34 Navi, my assumption was that you could use the non-tethering PDA personal plan for $30/mo. Jan 15 07:20:39 They hit you with a large bill if they find out, though Jan 15 07:20:57 Their detection methods are pretty weak though Jan 15 07:21:07 ZOMG TOO MUCH DATA USED UR USING TEH TEATHER Jan 15 07:21:48 GeneralAntilles: i have tmo with a phone that won't tether + data plan so i'm on the look out for something good Jan 15 07:21:52 I've been fine tethering for the past 2 years Jan 15 07:21:56 johnx: How much are they selling it for? Jan 15 07:22:06 $20/mo MediaMAX 200 Jan 15 07:22:07 GeneralAntilles: they usually don't find out Jan 15 07:22:09 or care Jan 15 07:22:40 rediculous, who should care Jan 15 07:22:53 I've seen n810wes for around $350 - $400, but as part of Nokia's EOL, retailers are supposed to ship them back to Nokia for a refund Jan 15 07:23:16 Is the PDA personal AT&T plan unlimited data? Jan 15 07:23:30 Luls, the tethering plan is double the price with a 5GB limit Jan 15 07:23:42 and .00048 US cents per KB Jan 15 07:23:46 over the limit Jan 15 07:23:53 Yeah, unlimited. Jan 15 07:23:57 Tethering plans are ridiculous. Jan 15 07:24:01 Indeed Jan 15 07:24:16 the only real plan is 5g Jan 15 07:24:17 3G coverage? Jan 15 07:24:45 GeneralAntilles, that survey generally tells me that in both camps the people interviewed were a little confused Jan 15 07:24:57 I need a new phone for 3G Jan 15 07:25:07 Nokia needs to come out with a new E70 Jan 15 07:25:16 Screw the N97s Jan 15 07:25:19 iphone :) Jan 15 07:25:27 E70 Jan 15 07:25:43 http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone Jan 15 07:25:45 kthx Jan 15 07:27:10 johnx, hehe. Jan 15 07:27:10 ah a little radiohead to lighten my day Jan 15 07:27:32 The E71 is a very nice phone indeed. Jan 15 07:27:34 johnx: the WEs are too black for me Jan 15 07:27:41 I hate black Jan 15 07:27:41 Back At The Mother Ship (tm), you see them everywhere. Jan 15 07:28:10 johnx: actually, I don't have the $$$ for them :( Jan 15 07:28:48 Navi, eh, save it for the next tablet anyways, or buy the new Palm thing when it comes out Jan 15 07:29:11 The Pre? Jan 15 07:29:26 We were discussing it earlier in the cool people channel Jan 15 07:29:42 before my time Jan 15 07:29:44 People should give up the webapps on a phone angle for now Jan 15 07:30:15 native apps plz Jan 15 07:30:16 basically, even if it's just a dumbphone and something to tether my n800 to I'll be happy with it Jan 15 07:30:38 i dunno, Palm has actually sold me on the idea, and the devs don't seem to hate it too much Jan 15 07:31:07 I also think it's a very cool idea. Jan 15 07:31:13 johnx: don't get a cheap tether, unless you don't use a cell Jan 15 07:31:15 Large offline native apps are dying out. Jan 15 07:31:16 the iPhone tried it and failed Jan 15 07:31:33 It takes too long to build and maintain. When the app is done, it's too old already. Jan 15 07:31:40 (well, not always, but often) Jan 15 07:32:21 Navi, the iphone did webapps. Palm is doing apps in html/js that actually can call system APIs Jan 15 07:32:28 Mmk Jan 15 07:32:31 on a closed platform i would imagine offline apps could suffer Jan 15 07:32:47 afaik the palm 3rd party apps can do pretty much the same as the system apps. Jan 15 07:32:48 apparently all the 1st party stuff in their demos was html/js Jan 15 07:32:49 At least the Pre can multitask Jan 15 07:33:11 It's just using html/css/javascript + some kind of graphical toolkit on top (for the transitions etc.) Jan 15 07:33:19 unlike the currently most popular touch phone at this moment Jan 15 07:34:12 i can do that js/php/html/css stuff i want something i can't do Jan 15 07:35:15 How about develop a good application? Jan 15 07:36:23 it's all about particle physics for me, where's the time Jan 15 07:39:15 o i was worried i had made the general leave Jan 15 07:39:19 fuck mornings. there, i said it. who gets up before its bright outside? Jan 15 07:39:41 no hand raising here Jan 15 07:40:16 StsN800, does it count if I got to sleep after it's bright outside and wakeup in the dark? Jan 15 07:41:05 thats fine. just slept exceptionally bad :) Jan 15 07:41:08 johnx: that's burly Jan 15 07:42:02 yigal, client being crappy. Jan 15 07:43:33 http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone that is funny Jan 15 07:43:56 GeneralAntilles, aaah, I see what you were getting at with the survey I think: more programmer-hours per capita going into openmoko? Jan 15 07:44:02 vlc is available for jaunty :P Jan 15 07:44:10 but still no mplayer :( Jan 15 07:44:16 johnx, I hadn't really drawn any conclusions. Jan 15 07:44:41 GeneralAntilles: I hope you're a bit better situated now Jan 15 07:45:40 GeneralAntilles, well, kinda fits with what I've been saying about attracting motivated people Jan 15 07:46:58 Ubuntu 15.04 should be called Penetrating Penis Jan 15 07:47:05 That would be luls Jan 15 07:47:18 * Navi snickers Jan 15 07:47:40 johnx: needs more hype Jan 15 07:48:07 Navi, exactly, but needs more hype targeted at developers Jan 15 07:48:07 johnx, I think Fremantle and the RX-51 will help a lot. Jan 15 07:48:26 It's tough to attract people to a platform that's mostly been stagnant for the last year. Jan 15 07:48:43 johnx: any hype will do, really Jan 15 07:49:27 user hype can help the base grow, which may catch they eyes of unrelated developers Jan 15 07:49:28 Navi, that's true to a certain extent, but I think boosting the dev/user ratio would be a good thing. It makes the community "feel" more productive Jan 15 07:50:08 I guess I should say "involved people/uninvolved people ratio" Jan 15 07:50:15 Mmm Jan 15 07:50:27 Too bad the tablet community isn't like the GP2X community Jan 15 07:50:41 haha! now you're catching my evil plan :D Jan 15 07:50:47 I wouldn't compare to openmoko Jan 15 07:50:50 too unproductive Jan 15 07:50:59 well, that too we'll have to work on :) Jan 15 07:51:02 not like i'm using it much but the default player is giving me the following error "unable to perform operation. try again". any ideas? I use it for long bike rides, I just add my music collection, but now it doesnt work, although, a little find + mplayer does roughly the smae thing Jan 15 07:51:29 Navi, Mer has two goals: brining up-to-date libs and a sane base for Maemo on the n8x0, and bringing the hildon UI to anything that can run ubuntu Jan 15 07:51:29 you can use Canola, or something Jan 15 07:51:39 phew, qgil said maemo 5 would have xterm Jan 15 07:51:54 Stskeeps, was there ever any doubt? Jan 15 07:51:55 imagine the firestorm otherwise Jan 15 07:52:10 GeneralAntilles: you never know Jan 15 07:52:14 johnx: well, honestly, I don't like the current UI, but ze future UI might be good Jan 15 07:52:18 ya, need the 8gb+ card soon in my possesion Jan 15 07:52:34 at least the libs and shtick are there Jan 15 07:52:43 Navi, yeah, the current UI isn't great, just better than anything else Jan 15 07:52:48 johnx: saw wazds mockups last night btw? Jan 15 07:53:07 Stskeeps, yup :) Jan 15 07:53:19 i want xterm with mouse url support Jan 15 07:53:30 Stskeeps, I saw the first one, was there more? Jan 15 07:53:31 :) Jan 15 07:53:43 johnx: various vers Jan 15 07:54:05 * johnx digs through logs Jan 15 07:54:33 yigal, tap'n'hold? Jan 15 07:56:09 liking this one best I think: http://i039.radikal.ru/0901/d5/3a9207c44b02.png Jan 15 07:56:21 GeneralAntilles: nice :) Jan 15 07:57:06 johnx, I always thought horizontal space was more important than vertical Jan 15 07:57:34 hence the top bar Jan 15 07:57:40 johnx, how easy are the layouts to edit? Jan 15 07:57:40 or did you mean that the other way around? Jan 15 07:57:47 * johnx sighs Jan 15 07:57:51 er, yeah, the top bar is good. Jan 15 07:57:55 kind of a PITA to line everything up perfectly Jan 15 07:58:33 If only it were as easy as having wazd do a mockup. ;) Jan 15 07:59:01 well, even a non-programmer could do it, as long as they had patience and artistic sense (and basic math) Jan 15 07:59:27 the matchbox part is an xml file and then the layout itself is in .osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf Jan 15 07:59:28 Which reminds me of an old game whose level editor was ClariWorks. Jan 15 07:59:53 s/Cari/Claris/ Jan 15 07:59:58 I wrote a zelda clone that used vi or notepad for an editor Jan 15 08:00:11 want an enemy? type x Jan 15 08:00:57 the other part of a layout is of course redrawing all the affected .pngs Jan 15 08:01:13 Well, that, at least, we can make wazd do. Jan 15 08:01:21 and you can't use theme maker if you're changing the layout Jan 15 08:01:49 I'd like to wait and see what Fremantle looks like. Jan 15 08:01:59 I have a suspicion that it may already address these issues. Jan 15 08:02:17 My suspicion is that the new launcher is the most likely place to use clutter Jan 15 08:02:39 Likely, but we can lift the layout anyway. Jan 15 08:02:42 or deprecate them by using a completely different ui Jan 15 08:02:53 Anyone familiar with Qt on Maemo? I'm having a sql plugin problem: http://rafb.net/p/ezHh4l38.html Jan 15 08:03:33 RST38h, doesn't really matter. They're keeping libhildon and it seems like they're keeping largely API compatible (though I'd love to see that confirmed) Jan 15 08:03:38 night, i thank you for your work, now a goodbye for now to all Jan 15 08:03:47 'night yigal Jan 15 08:07:57 The one thing I can think of is that I assume Maemo 5 will have rotation support so we might need a mockup for a 480x800 layout as well. That presents some interesting challenges... Jan 15 08:11:34 anyways, I'm off to work, maybe I'll try and draw a crappy sketch of it on the train :) Jan 15 08:11:42 woo Jan 15 08:11:44 train Jan 15 08:12:09 Morning. Jan 15 08:12:23 Hullo, X-Fade Jan 15 08:12:48 Navi, yup, the train: http://tinyurl.com/a8trs2 Jan 15 08:12:49 How are you doing tonight? Jan 15 08:13:36 * X-Fade wonders what will happen with Jaiku once Google opensources it.. Jan 15 08:14:15 morning all Jan 15 08:22:54 X-Fade: a lot of spread jaiku like systems Jan 15 08:23:18 X-Fade: and i think there should be mauku.maemo.org or something ;) Jan 15 08:23:56 Stskeeps++ :D Jan 15 08:24:14 Stskeeps: As long as they are able to sync with each other. Jan 15 08:24:43 X-Fade: yeah.. and that could potentially be a lot of traffic Jan 15 08:24:48 For some things it is nice to have one central point where everybody can be found. Jan 15 08:24:53 on the other hand, it would be more sane than IRC. Jan 15 08:25:19 irc<->jaiku gateway? Jan 15 08:25:21 X-Fade, did you see? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257743&postcount=93 Jan 15 08:25:49 * Stskeeps still isn't sure of openid really Jan 15 08:25:51 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, we've discussed that. Jan 15 08:25:56 But openid is really poor. Jan 15 08:26:21 OpenID blows Jan 15 08:26:22 It has all kinds of security implications and doesn't do account federation. Jan 15 08:26:32 Meiz_n810: do you have time to test b-man's new installer later today? we fixed the external/internal card problematique Jan 15 08:26:34 Needs moar transparency Jan 15 08:26:42 Ah, good to know, then. Jan 15 08:26:50 and less headache inducing backend libs Jan 15 08:26:59 Meiz_n810: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.5.1-1_armel.deb Jan 15 08:27:33 GeneralAntilles: FWIW, we are discussing a central ldap for all maemo services. But no outside accounts for now.. Jan 15 08:28:31 X-Fade: maybe act as a openid provider to satisfy those who want to make sites authing up towards maemo.org? Jan 15 08:29:11 Stskeeps: That is an easier solution. But still, if you really look into openid.. it has problems. Jan 15 08:29:17 yeah, i know Jan 15 08:30:09 I like the 'one account for all' idea. Jan 15 08:30:17 But it has to be done right ;) Jan 15 08:31:31 Stskeeps: ok, thanks, i'll try it soon Jan 15 08:31:32 bugzilla & maemo.org account seperation definately is a problem :P Jan 15 08:32:15 And every service we use should have support for it. (eg. midgard, gforge, bugzilla, ssh, svn, git, mailman etc etc.) Jan 15 08:32:26 And now to infect the rest of maemo with wiimote goodness! http://monkeyiq.blogspot.com/2009/01/didnt-your-n810-come-with-accelerometer.html Jan 15 08:32:47 Bugzilla has ldap support, so that could be an option. Jan 15 08:32:53 monkeyiq, why not move your stuff to Extras? Jan 15 08:33:36 Although we need to update bugzilla first. And andre___ is feeling the pain ;) Jan 15 08:33:56 GeneralAntilles; I've been considering it for a while... I'll probably push some stuff over at some stage. Jan 15 08:34:34 GeneralAntilles; once I get past the initial package in extras... but currently I just build in sbox and rsync to the uni which is quick & nasty Jan 15 08:38:27 GeneralAntilles; oh yeah, plus a few of the packages in my repo are simply recompiles poached from the debian srcs, so I'm not sure of the politics if I put those ones into extras. If its just my personal repo then thats another matter. Jan 15 08:38:59 There are no politics. Jan 15 08:39:01 <`Mace> boston legal cracks me up Jan 15 08:39:08 <`Mace> it's no wonder it did better than the practice Jan 15 08:39:39 `Mace, ever watch 30 Rock? Jan 15 08:39:51 <`Mace> 30 rock? Jan 15 08:40:10 <`Mace> no Jan 15 08:40:24 Well nevermind then. ;) Jan 15 08:40:27 I recommend it, though. :P Jan 15 08:40:47 <`Mace> heh Jan 15 08:42:23 Well, one of the character's in 30 Rock says "I watched 8 episodes of Boston Legal before I realized it wasn't a new Star Trek." So . . . . ;) Jan 15 08:42:35 hehe Jan 15 08:42:38 <`Mace> hahaha Jan 15 08:42:42 http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/wanted-thesis-worker-for-embedded-linux-kernel-development/#comment-1534 <- interesting Jan 15 08:42:44 <`Mace> william shatner is awesome Jan 15 08:43:12 wasn't 7of9 in there too? :P Jan 15 08:43:17 <`Mace> he did shed the whole captain kirk thing Jan 15 08:43:25 <`Mace> probably in an episode Jan 15 08:43:30 <`Mace> wasn't 7 of 9 in another show? Jan 15 08:44:12 maybe Jan 15 08:44:21 <`Mace> she was hot in star trek Jan 15 08:44:25 <`Mace> not so hot in real life :) Jan 15 08:44:35 people get old.. Jan 15 08:44:38 <`Mace> i think it was the ass lifting breast lifting skin tight uniform Jan 15 08:45:14 i'm really happy with my fiancée's looks, even if she's 3 years older than me, she doesn't look like a train wreck like most people i grew up did already at 20 Jan 15 08:45:18 <`Mace> and the eye implant piece that kinda looked like a tattoo Jan 15 08:45:38 <`Mace> heh.. my gf is 28.. she's still hot Jan 15 08:45:47 27yo here Jan 15 08:45:47 :P Jan 15 08:47:02 X-Fade: btw, what determined linkedness between a iTT account and a maemo.org account? Jan 15 08:47:39 determines, that is Jan 15 08:47:53 Stskeeps: You can fill that in at account settings. Jan 15 08:48:00 Stskeeps: In your maemo.org account. Jan 15 08:48:04 ah Jan 15 08:48:11 so it pulls karma and such from there as well Jan 15 08:48:17 Manual pointer.. Jan 15 08:48:20 alright Jan 15 08:48:36 So point to GA's account ;) Jan 15 08:48:55 insta-karma[tm] ;) Jan 15 08:49:00 hehe Jan 15 08:49:24 GeneralAntilles: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/ , comment 9 - i'm willing to bet there's more people like that laying about Jan 15 08:52:25 <`Mace> spader plays a good role too Jan 15 08:53:35 X-Fade, :P Jan 15 08:54:09 Stskeeps, nice looking theme. Jan 15 08:54:33 yeah - theme is good, but also interesting what he says from a technical point of view :) hope we'll see him around today Jan 15 08:54:53 Yeah, that theme looks clean. Jan 15 08:55:01 having more people insane enough to dive into scratchbox and such, is a good asset Jan 15 08:55:04 :P Jan 15 08:57:09 Yeah, you need to get people like that on board. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 15 09:00:27 2009 Jan 15 09:31:05 mooall Jan 15 09:37:05 GeneralAntilles: I'm not sure the Fremantle layout will help non-Clutter based implementations. Jan 15 09:37:20 And it'd be good for mer to have a differentiation Jan 15 09:45:28 about the ke-recv and it's "unable to connect, no file system found" for any USB device when in host mode... I was only able to find the 3.2 sources for the maemo 5.0, which doesn't quite work in diablo. is the diablo version, 2.28, available somewhere? Jan 15 09:46:19 Jaffa: It seems that at least some of the Clutter use is in matchbox. Jan 15 09:46:20 for the record, I got the popup "fixed", but there were other issues with the new version. it relies on some features not apparently yet in diablo. Jan 15 09:55:59 Hello ! Jan 15 09:57:35 hi Jan 15 09:58:00 moo. Jan 15 09:59:56 hop hop ... mNotes 0.2.2 pushed to the builder Jan 15 10:09:15 Someone can explain me while everybody want qt on their nit ? Jan 15 10:09:32 a personnal preferences of coder because they know it or use it ? Jan 15 10:09:39 less suck than gtk Jan 15 10:09:40 it's hip Jan 15 10:10:33 it os for abi breaks! Jan 15 10:10:38 they are sooo exciting Jan 15 10:11:14 os for abi breaks ? Jan 15 10:12:38 Qt is a C++ librar Jan 15 10:13:04 and ? it s just a language ... Jan 15 10:13:15 It has got virtual functions and objects Jan 15 10:13:41 Yes, but imagine that you have been using Qt n.0 where an object had a size of x bytes Jan 15 10:13:51 You copied these objects, compared them, stored them, etc Jan 15 10:14:15 No, Qt n+1.0 is released and it adds an extra virtual function or a data member to your object so now it has a size of n+4 bytes Jan 15 10:14:22 s/No/Now Jan 15 10:14:38 If you try running your binary with the new library, it will crash Jan 15 10:15:19 That is one of the fundamental problems with C++ APIs which makes some people absolutely hate them (see GTK/Glib people for example) Jan 15 10:15:40 this is a real problem, right Jan 15 10:16:07 so gtk 1 - 0 qt ... Jan 15 10:16:18 and why many still want to use qt ? Jan 15 10:17:51 i ask because i see that maemo will be in feature available with qt and gtk Jan 15 10:18:32 and from my point of view ... a python developper, i don't see any things that could made leave pygtk for pyqt Jan 15 10:18:41 s/made/make me Jan 15 10:19:51 qt is way cleaner than gtk Jan 15 10:20:01 storing/copying/whatnot C++ classes as such with virtual functions is a bad idea to begin with. not hardly a flaw in qt or even in C++ just bad coding practice. Jan 15 10:20:04 python is different Jan 15 10:20:13 yep :) Jan 15 10:20:28 kynde: why? Jan 15 10:20:42 kynde: pointers do not change during your app lifecycle Jan 15 10:25:06 granted it works within an app, but if we're talking abi it's obvious that things break if you meddle with virtual functions. I read your complaint a bit wrong. and yes, ofcourse when qt makes a +1.0 release change and change their virtual functions the abi breaks. granted. Jan 15 10:26:19 but is that so different when C libraries change their structs/functions in such a way that the abi breaks? there's usually far less need to do so, but still. Jan 15 10:32:10 kynde: I guess C makes it way more obvious Jan 15 10:32:32 kynde: it is the opposite side of encapsulation Jan 15 10:32:58 if things are all encapsulated, you pay way less attention to what goes on inside that capsule Jan 15 10:41:31 true. C++ makes library ABIs too often a bit problematic. Jan 15 10:42:40 http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2008/11/21/9131198.aspx Jan 15 10:43:57 * timelyx shrugs Jan 15 10:44:03 Qt has some advantages over Gtk Jan 15 10:44:31 Gtk has some advantages over Maemo Gtk (like none of the maemo API/ABI breaks!) Jan 15 10:44:41 you can easily screw up Gtk (and we have) Jan 15 10:45:07 w/ C++, you can and should write serialization things if you need them and iirc Qt offers some of that stuff Jan 15 10:45:14 so if you really care about reading objects from a disk, you can Jan 15 10:45:31 (otoh, i filed a bug about the Qt IDE crashing on certain XML input, i don't think it's fixed yet) Jan 15 10:45:53 btw, Gtk also has api breaks, Gtk1=>Gtk2 Jan 15 10:47:21 timelyx: do you know a site / page / mailing list where there is a real discussion on advantage of using qt or gtk ? Jan 15 10:47:34 i don't found anythings than nice troll Jan 15 10:48:04 um, not offhand Jan 15 10:48:45 i think there are some writeups by Linus Jan 15 10:49:58 no, there aren't. Linus has never commented on gui toolkits, he did write about gnome vs kde, but that was about philosophy, not code. Jan 15 10:50:21 fwiw, I personally dislike Gtk -- Qt is cleaner. But i dislike Qt because its OOM handling is also broken. For Maemo, if at day 0, I could have picked Qt instead of GTK, I would have. However, having selected Gtk, I object to the idea of reinventing the code in Qt Jan 15 10:50:39 it took mozilla.org >5 years to do a rewrite (maybe closer to 7-10) Jan 15 10:51:17 note that Qt's object system isn't really C++, it's Qt (read about MOC) Jan 15 10:51:29 so while you can transition from C++ to Qt, it's still a transition Jan 15 10:51:44 just like switching from C or C++ to GObject is a transition Jan 15 10:52:20 Khertan: It is a heated topic so you won't find anything intelligeable Jan 15 10:52:41 personally, i've found the Qt documentation to be better than the Gtk documentation, and the Qt impl to be cleaner than similar Gtk impl (i.e. the actual code for both toolkits) Jan 15 10:52:43 RST38h: yep this is the problem ... don't find anything intelligeable Jan 15 10:52:44 Khertan: And if you program in Python, it probably does not matter to you anyway Jan 15 10:52:46 but I've found bugs in both Jan 15 10:52:56 and I'd rather write my code in js w/ xul Jan 15 10:52:59 and avoid both Jan 15 10:53:10 for mozilla, i'd be happier using cairo+x (no Gtk, no Qt) Jan 15 10:53:17 sadly we don't have that choice available today Jan 15 10:53:20 Khertan: If you program in C/C++, then the summary is "Qt has muchcleaner API due to C++ usage and saner designers" Jan 15 10:53:33 fwiw, when the Qt license change was noticed, some mozilla core devs joked about it Jan 15 10:54:04 it's pretty hard to actually *love* gtk Jan 15 10:54:17 timelyx: i love it :) Jan 15 10:54:23 but i use it with pygtk Jan 15 10:54:37 Khertan: See more discussion on the C++ virtues (type checking, encapsulation, etc) somewhere else - these pretty much explain why Qt is better than Gtk style-wise Jan 15 10:54:40 but there is some things i hate ... pixbuf ... pixmap ... :) Jan 15 10:54:40 someone could probably make a pygtk which actually wrapped Qt Jan 15 10:54:43 and you wouln't care Jan 15 10:54:48 meep, after getting mnotes going it seems to have eaten my older notes, not nice :( Jan 15 10:55:04 * timelyx shrugs Jan 15 10:55:10 t_s_o > really ? Jan 15 10:55:11 i still haven't actually read the announcement Jan 15 10:55:21 it's very hard to hide c++'isms in a language binding Jan 15 10:55:23 fwiw, afaik maemo software didn't know about the license change in advance Jan 15 10:55:32 and they REALLY bother me in python Jan 15 10:55:48 Khertan: i had maybe 5-6 notes stored in there, and now there are none. i aldo had to manually install pydes to get it running... Jan 15 10:56:18 t_s_o: ouch ... pydes shouldn't be required in this version ... Jan 15 10:56:30 do you get error when launching it in the term ? Jan 15 10:56:49 that was how i sniffed out the pydes requirement Jan 15 10:57:57 ah, operationalerror: no such column: crypted Jan 15 10:58:09 but i don't understand how you can loose your notes Jan 15 10:58:16 yeah that it Jan 15 10:58:27 so it s just not dispayed Jan 15 10:59:15 ok, so as the notes do not have a crypted entry, they are not displayed in the list? Jan 15 11:00:12 khertan :D make a note to check and test ;) Jan 15 11:00:13 in fact ... i ve packaged with the wrong framework version Jan 15 11:00:35 the unfinished one which can crypt notes :) Jan 15 11:00:47 ouch ;) Jan 15 11:01:57 i repackage it :) Jan 15 11:02:29 BTW, am I the only one having password problems with the latest Modest? Jan 15 11:02:40 define password problems Jan 15 11:02:59 RST38h: i don't have password problem ... it just never update, or try to update :) Jan 15 11:03:07 Every now and then it shows an account dialog asking me to reenter password Jan 15 11:03:19 If I cancel, leaving the same password, it will show the dialog again Jan 15 11:03:45 Of course, if there is nobody to reenter password, the modest email check process just hangs there in the dialog Jan 15 11:04:07 do we have -dbg packages for modest? Jan 15 11:04:13 if so, a stack would help Jan 15 11:04:37 * Khertan is uploading mNotes 0.2.3 to extras builder Jan 15 11:04:46 * timelyx pokes mxr Jan 15 11:04:55 RST38h: i have sometimes seen that dialog when the real issue is a connection problem Jan 15 11:05:14 t_s_o: I assume that the real problem is the connection as well Jan 15 11:05:27 Because the password does not change :) Jan 15 11:05:51 t_s_o: so i understand that you trust all apps in extras-devel ? :) Jan 15 11:05:55 Why it pops up the dialog and absolutely insists on reentering the same password evades me though Jan 15 11:06:16 especially funny when modest is for some reason running in the background (i do not have automated checking enabled!) and the connection is activated but has some issue or other, there comes a modest account dialog out of nowhere, asking about faulty password... Jan 15 11:06:32 3469 #ifdef MODEST_PLATFORM_MAEMO Jan 15 11:06:32 3470 /* Maemo uses a different (awkward) button order, Jan 15 11:06:32 3471 * It should probably just use gtk_alternative_dialog_button_order (). Jan 15 11:06:33 * timelyx sighs Jan 15 11:06:50 ? Jan 15 11:06:56 3492 modest_window_mgr_set_modal (modest_runtime_get_window_mgr(), GTK_WINDOW (dialog)); Jan 15 11:07:03 http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/modest-1.0-2008.23/src/modest-ui-actions.c#3450 Jan 15 11:07:30 loved that (awkward) but. talk about eye of the beholder... Jan 15 11:07:37 anyway, given that it's modal, it's not surprising that you'd get this behavior Jan 15 11:07:57 t_s_o: hey, i'm only quoting code Jan 15 11:08:05 i didn't write it :) Jan 15 11:08:10 Personally, I prefer Maemo's arrangement. Jan 15 11:08:12 heh, didnt say you did Jan 15 11:08:29 personally i don't like gtk's arrangement :) Jan 15 11:08:33 * timelyx can't remember maemo's Jan 15 11:08:37 and I need to prod the Carman guys again about either fixing their own or changing the button text. . . . Jan 15 11:08:49 * timelyx does remember that maemo had wizards with conflicting ordering Jan 15 11:08:51 * timelyx sighs Jan 15 11:08:56 * timelyx bangs head against a wall Jan 15 11:09:35 3531 #ifdef MODEST_PLATFORM_MAEMO Jan 15 11:09:35 3532 /* Auto-capitalization is the default, so let's turn it off: */ Jan 15 11:09:35 3533 hildon_gtk_entry_set_input_mode (GTK_ENTRY (entry_username), HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL); Jan 15 11:09:38 heh, this code is fun Jan 15 11:10:24 3576 /* This is not in the Maemo UI spec: Jan 15 11:10:24 3577 remember_pass_check = gtk_check_button_new_with_label (_("Remember password")); Jan 15 11:10:24 3578 gtk_box_pack_start (GTK_BOX(GTK_DIALOG(dialog)->vbox), remember_pass_check, Jan 15 11:10:24 3579 TRUE, FALSE, 0); Jan 15 11:10:25 3580 */ Jan 15 11:10:26 * timelyx cries Jan 15 11:10:34 why wasn't that #ifndef MODEST_PLATFORM_MAEMO Jan 15 11:10:35 :( Jan 15 11:10:44 t_s_o > mnotes 0.2.3 will be available soon in extras-devel repository Jan 15 11:10:59 could you test it and send me what you think of it ? Jan 15 11:11:12 by email (khertan@khertan.net) Jan 15 11:11:51 ok Jan 15 11:12:44 http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/15/0619257 Jan 15 11:12:49 numpty physics anyone/ Jan 15 11:13:20 remind me, are there any other gui besides gnome and osx that puts the ok button on the left? Jan 15 11:13:37 timelyx, Numpty is just a rip off of Crayon Physics. Jan 15 11:13:41 t_s_o: gnome doesn't Jan 15 11:13:59 mgedmin: i could have sworn... Jan 15 11:14:05 GeneralAntilles: Let's call it a remake ;) Jan 15 11:14:31 t_s_o: gnome apps tend to avoid buttons labeled 'ok'. a button labeled 'close' is more usual, and IIRC it's usually right-aligned Jan 15 11:14:38 X-Fade, quite right, and I didn't mean anything by it, but that's what the creator called it. ;) Jan 15 11:14:43 oh Jan 15 11:14:58 ok, close, whatever. Jan 15 11:15:17 t_s_o: great idea! Jan 15 11:15:25 :P Jan 15 11:15:31 a 'whatever' button is what I want on all my licence click-through dialogs Jan 15 11:15:49 e.g. maemo's app installer Jan 15 11:16:28 what happened to that patched app manager that removed the warning dialog? Jan 15 11:17:03 t_s_o, maybe in qwerty12's thread? Jan 15 11:17:09 There's also a bug, I think. Jan 15 11:17:17 there are always bugs... Jan 15 11:17:20 :P Jan 15 11:17:34 Unfortunately I'm not able to pull the number for this one out of my ass this time. ;) Jan 15 11:17:54 ah, yes, i recall said bugreport Jan 15 11:19:20 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257743&postcount=93 Jan 15 11:19:22 Pffft Jan 15 11:19:26 oh, fwiw, ars is probably the best ref for Qt stuff i suppose Jan 15 11:19:28 Stupid slow clipboard Jan 15 11:19:29 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2710 Jan 15 11:21:09 t_s_o > there seems to be still a bug on draw feature of mnotes Jan 15 11:21:26 do not keep important info in it :) Jan 15 11:21:36 i mean in the draw feature Jan 15 11:21:43 text one work like a charm Jan 15 11:22:23 im not much of a pen artist anyways ;) Jan 15 11:33:27 * RST38h notices how often bugzilla comments started going into flame mode lately Jan 15 11:33:53 Hehe Jan 15 11:34:04 Nothing to laugh about really =( Jan 15 11:35:19 Frustration with Nokia is beginning to overflow. Jan 15 11:35:35 I think it'll get better moving forward. Jan 15 11:37:22 General: There are still 6 months to go Jan 15 11:37:47 * RST38h did not expect Nokia would turn it into another Pandora Jan 15 11:37:49 Maybe maybe not. Jan 15 11:37:55 RST38h, bullshit. Jan 15 11:37:59 They haven't announced anything. Jan 15 11:38:03 GeneralAntilles, he has a point with signed/unsigned though Jan 15 11:38:04 Ok, agree, bullshit :) Jan 15 11:38:16 Pandora said they'd ship last April Jan 15 11:38:20 then slipped and slipped again Jan 15 11:38:24 as in signed by developer in repo Jan 15 11:38:24 General: They did announce Fremantle and seeded hints about N9x0 saying Fremantle will be limited to it Jan 15 11:38:31 Nokia hasn't said a word about the next tablet other than that it'll have three things. Jan 15 11:39:05 General: from what they said, the N9x0 release date is well deduceable Jan 15 11:39:21 RST38h, sure, but how does that compare with the Pandora? Jan 15 11:39:21 heh, the pandora slippage is better then nothing, at least as long as one didnt preorder ;) Jan 15 11:39:24 really what's the date? Jan 15 11:39:27 * timelyx wants to know Jan 15 11:41:40 General: the pattern of promising stuff (even implicitely) and then keeping would be users in suspense Jan 15 11:41:57 Er Jan 15 11:41:57 General: but I do agree that the initial statement was bullshit though :) Jan 15 11:42:19 They've promised a beta SDK in May. Jan 15 11:42:23 That's the extent of it. Jan 15 11:44:17 is the hildon-status-bar-battery open source? where does it read it's battery status from? Jan 15 11:45:02 from a file Jan 15 11:45:02 No. DBus. Jan 15 11:45:08 everything is a file in linux :) Jan 15 11:45:09 kYnde: mxr.maemo.org/diablo Jan 15 11:45:44 kynde, if you want a source: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24905 Jan 15 11:45:58 cheers. I'll have a look. Jan 15 11:46:01 RST38h: from what they;'ve said I think you're out by a couple of months Jan 15 11:46:01 http://nitapps.com/ Jan 15 11:46:22 did i ever push a fremantlesdk? Jan 15 11:46:50 timelE61i, I don't see Fremantle on mxr Jan 15 11:46:54 RST38h: also re Fremantle only on n900, they are happy to help us with bringing it to the n8x0 devices too, you know that Jan 15 11:47:10 Swift is currently not routable at all Jan 15 11:49:32 nitapps sources somewhere? Jan 15 11:49:43 kynde, should be in his repo. Jan 15 11:51:23 not in the usual place afaik, the nitapps.com/dists/diablo only has user/binary-armel as does chinook... Jan 15 11:51:54 Hum, dunno then Jan 15 11:52:01 I never was able to talk him into uploading them to Extras. Jan 15 11:53:02 no worries, the itt forum link you gave pointed me to the advanced power which is garage with sources. which is exactly what I was looking for. cheers. Jan 15 11:54:56 (for ther record, even that is not in svn and there latest release candidates are not there as source. I guess some people don't quite grasp the meaning of making sources available...) Jan 15 11:55:31 kynde, some people just aren't that organized. Jan 15 11:55:48 A PM on itT to the creator might be productive, though. Jan 15 11:57:11 noon everybody Jan 15 11:57:16 :) and sure, why not Jan 15 11:58:18 morning wazd Jan 15 12:00:21 anyone know how touchscreen pressure measurement works? Jan 15 12:00:35 Magic! Jan 15 12:00:44 thanks Arthur Jan 15 12:01:02 lardman: resistance? Jan 15 12:01:15 press harder, wires closer together? Jan 15 12:01:41 does it actually measure the change in resistance between the wires, or are more pressed together? Jan 15 12:01:47 and press more harder, and wire touch directly the cpu Jan 15 12:01:57 ;) Jan 15 12:01:58 Then magic! Jan 15 12:02:37 someone have some times to do something for me ? Jan 15 12:02:47 pushing pygtksourceview to extras Jan 15 12:02:54 and extras-devel Jan 15 12:03:05 I was just wondering about that pseudo multitouch that uses the size of the touch region, and wondering if our hw can return that, which made me wonder if it uses the size as an analogue for pressure Jan 15 12:03:17 since they are called "resistive" then it's something in resistance :) Jan 15 12:03:20 i ven't got the time to do it from my computer ... Jan 15 12:03:26 http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tsc2301.pdf p18 Jan 15 12:04:17 but I'm still with General, it's dark magic :) Jan 15 12:04:37 no, it's on that page above actually Jan 15 12:04:39 :) Jan 15 12:05:26 it looks like X-Fade was right Jan 15 12:05:28 which is good Jan 15 12:06:11 lardman: but the real question is, which way out? ;) Jan 15 12:06:26 lardman: Am I short by two months or long? Jan 15 12:06:44 I'd say short, but the what do I know Jan 15 12:07:04 lardman: then things are worse not better Jan 15 12:07:22 ah sorry, I meant you're long, half asleep Jan 15 12:07:45 * lardman pours another cup of coffee Jan 15 12:08:12 lardman: this would put hw release to the same time as SDK beta release? Jan 15 12:08:26 yes, I presume some hw will become available then Jan 15 12:09:40 but again, I'm only guessing wishfully :) Jan 15 12:10:12 that is wishful thinking at its finest =) Jan 15 12:10:41 if you're going to be wishful you may as well make it good (wishing) Jan 15 12:12:41 * RST38h in the spirit of being different ((C)Apple) wishes for global apocalypse Jan 15 12:13:00 how's that different? Jan 15 12:13:46 my wish is positive, his isn't? ;) Jan 15 12:14:12 aquatix means my wish is also positive Jan 15 12:14:22 in the global view of things, anyway Jan 15 12:14:47 lol Jan 15 12:15:35 ah :P Jan 15 12:15:45 RST38h: yeah Jan 15 12:34:43 damned AI, crashoing all the time( Jan 15 12:35:02 * wazd downloading CS4 trial Jan 15 12:39:32 lardman, the g1 multitouch comes from the synapse touchpad code i believe Jan 15 12:39:45 ie its very axis oriented Jan 15 12:41:53 lcuk: yeah, I was just looking at our hw and working out if it could also return an area Jan 15 12:42:44 well it does return the average of your fingers Jan 15 12:42:58 area == average over time Jan 15 12:43:17 it returns the midpoint does it? Jan 15 12:43:23 if that average goes from a small radius to a large one you know the user added a second finger Jan 15 12:43:30 midpoint of pressure yeah Jan 15 12:43:53 ok, so you're saying that if it moves, you think a user has added another finger? Jan 15 12:44:12 what happens if they just move their finger along the screen without lifting? Jan 15 12:44:17 same effect? Jan 15 12:45:19 ok, put 1 finger at 0,0. normally in this world a finger can only move a certain amount per unit in time deltas are < lets say 5 pixels / frame Jan 15 12:45:34 if the cursor jumps to 800,0 you have broken that speed limit Jan 15 12:45:40 ok Jan 15 12:46:03 it would be interesting to see what the "pressure" data does with multiple fingers Jan 15 12:46:04 is the actual hardware detecting multiple touches, or does the design of the hardware just happen to return the average? Jan 15 12:46:12 Morning guys Jan 15 12:46:25 as it's calculated by looking at the resistance of the panel in the two directions, plus some maths Jan 15 12:46:31 lardman, it varys - look at the multitouch test in liqbase, it becomes MUCH more sensitive Jan 15 12:46:38 mavhc: just happens to return the average Jan 15 12:46:46 lcuk: ok, I'll have a look Jan 15 12:46:50 start off with 0,0 single finger Jan 15 12:47:16 if the next reading is 400,0 if the pressure differential is the same then you know there are 2 fingers at 0,0 and 800,0 Jan 15 12:47:56 hmm, interesting, I'd have thought the "pressure" would increase as the overall resitance in that direction was reduced Jan 15 12:47:59 but if the second finger is only a light touch you might only get a reading of 100,0 for putting two fingers in same place as before Jan 15 12:48:42 I imagine one could measure the touch area by calculating the "pressure" metric in both x & y directions Jan 15 12:48:55 and looking at the difference between them Jan 15 12:49:20 i do better than an area by obtaining an elipse of likely touches Jan 15 12:49:31 i can detect rotation to a high degree of certainty Jan 15 12:49:38 your passion should definitely serve some useful things, not multitouch :) Jan 15 12:49:48 but because of the pressure difference its always fuzzy and needs averaging out Jan 15 12:50:11 lcuk: ok, I was just wondering randomly after seeing that Android thread, I'll have a look at your code at some point :) Jan 15 12:50:28 wazd, theres lots of things im passionate about, multitouch is an interesting mathematical problem and relates in part to the events and messages an app needs to expect to recieve Jan 15 12:50:41 the logic is really simple lardman :) Jan 15 12:52:04 lardman https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/liqmutlitouchtest.c?revision=48&root=liqbase&view=markup Jan 15 12:53:14 oooer reading it its a bit more convoluted, ill make sure its cleaned up and explained properly - i might make a wiki article about it :) Jan 15 12:55:28 will have a look later on, fde code to debug atm :( Jan 15 12:56:15 np lardman, have you had your bacon butties yet? Jan 15 12:56:29 wazd, have you made that coc de mer logo yet :D Jan 15 12:56:43 coco^ Jan 15 12:56:49 mmmm, bacon Jan 15 12:58:03 lcuk: nope, I'm working on Emu Icons right now) Jan 15 12:58:17 heh cool Jan 15 12:58:38 back afterwards, lunch over Jan 15 13:22:17 Anyone going to FOSDEM this year? Jan 15 13:23:14 * aquatix is Jan 15 13:24:27 I'm just trying to get vacation on fr/mo to join as well. Jan 15 13:24:55 \o/ Jan 15 13:25:02 * aquatix didn't take vacation on monday Jan 15 13:25:15 so that might take some extra coffee at work then Jan 15 13:25:16 * Robot101 is, with a lot of Collabora foljks Jan 15 13:25:22 Robot101: yay Jan 15 13:25:46 Robot101: do you have room? Jan 15 13:25:49 +a Jan 15 13:26:56 aquatix: devroom? no we'll be all over the place, a lot of us at the XMPP jingle hacking on friday and summit on monday Jan 15 13:28:01 ah, you have your own summit afterwards? Jan 15 13:28:41 Stskeeps: could you give me url to the mer-installer? Jan 15 13:33:53 * rzr plans to go to fosdem too Jan 15 13:34:15 and gsm forum in bcn.es Jan 15 14:05:27 Meiz_n810: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.5.1-1_armel.deb Jan 15 14:05:37 Right. Baby fed. Jan 15 14:10:04 I'm freezing no matter how high I turn up the heat today, its 72 in my house I shouldn't be cold Jan 15 14:10:43 Andrewfblack, go do jumping jacks. Jan 15 14:10:44 andrewfblack: getting sick maybe? Jan 15 14:11:16 Hi ! Jan 15 14:11:21 andrew: tried measuring your own temp? Jan 15 14:11:23 afternoon Jan 15 14:11:25 Where can i cry about navicore bug ?? Jan 15 14:11:38 nico_, you can try bugs.maemo.org, but don't expect much. Jan 15 14:11:41 Stskeeps I wonder if its really 72 in the room I'm in in the hall its says 72 but its 33 outside I wonder if I'm feeling the cold radiate through the walls lol Jan 15 14:12:07 nico_, Nokia contracted somebody to write "Map" and it doesn't seem like there's a good way to get bugs we report to them. Jan 15 14:12:21 andrew: I would try obvious things first: 1) checking your own body temperature and 2) eating =) Jan 15 14:12:50 RST38h Already made breakfast once but when I walked my Wife outside for work dog ate it again Jan 15 14:13:15 andrewfblack: my body thinks it's way too cold without food :P Jan 15 14:13:48 Will try that in a min could be that i havn't moved in 2 hours trying to ger MerEcho arrows redone Jan 15 14:14:10 RST38h: http://fe11.story.media.ac4.yahoo.com/news/us/story/ap/20090114/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_evidence Jan 15 14:14:15 GeneralAntilles: thx, in fact map'soft can't calc destination outside current map Jan 15 14:14:32 nico_, I think there's an existing bug, actually. Jan 15 14:14:44 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3962 IIRC Jan 15 14:15:31 Jaffa: thx it seems to be this bug Jan 15 14:15:55 I wouldn't hold your breath, though :-( Jan 15 14:15:56 close prog sucks, we only can wait ?! Jan 15 14:16:02 Sts: fairly predictable Jan 15 14:17:18 Sts: and from now on, police is gonna make "mistakes" often =) Jan 15 14:18:28 RST38h: well it's interesting.. in .dk we don't have the rule that we look away from evidence if it was obtained illegally or whatever Jan 15 14:18:38 if it's real evidence and trustable, it may b eused Jan 15 14:18:48 hey if I wanted to change Personal Menu icon where would I find that file? Jan 15 14:18:55 but there's a shitload of paperwork involved when the police fucks up Jan 15 14:19:05 Sts: it is also logical but making it a law gives police a loophole Jan 15 14:19:16 Andrewfblack, /usr/share/icons/ somewhere in there. Jan 15 14:19:38 GeneralAntilles: Thanks Jan 15 14:19:41 hello, I would want to learn about the current state of Mer, can someone please give me some hint on where to start? Jan 15 14:19:48 'lo zenvoid :) Jan 15 14:20:13 :) Jan 15 14:21:45 zenvoid: basically - we have a minimal ubuntu jaunty base, a lot of packages compiled from Maemo, that is, we have Maemo GTK, hildon, etc - http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer0.6b/ (screenshots), http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/ has current ported packages from Maemo , Jan 15 14:22:11 https://code.launchpad.net/m-r has a lot of the code, - 'imager' is a good place to start if you want to see how we are building the images Jan 15 14:22:33 we have an updated SB1 SDK, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#SB1_SDK_Guide Jan 15 14:22:54 thanks!! I will read Jan 15 14:23:38 I have a theme I made same time ago, based on plankton Jan 15 14:23:44 yeah, i saw it, looks very nice :) Jan 15 14:24:11 we're using wazd's Titan atm, but any user interface stuff is welcome, as us others suck at that part ;) Jan 15 14:25:47 but would love to use SB2 instead, based on m-vo's thoughts on http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/the-cardinal-sin (if possible, but i have my doubts) , we also have an installer that partitions a MMC card, sets up bootmenu item, and retrieves a tar.gz. We have ongoing 770 port, x86 and Zaurus (along with N8x0) and kernel cooperation with nitdroid project. And we have an ongoing request with Nokia which would make it easier to distribute firmware ... Jan 15 14:25:53 ... images (http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_firmware_image_distribution ) Jan 15 14:25:54 haha :) I'm not a graphic designer, but maybe could help in this area Jan 15 14:26:43 and most development happens in this channel for now (me, johnx, wazd, qwerty12, meizirkki, b-man, others) Jan 15 14:26:56 I have a Neo Frerunner, it would be also an interesting target Jan 15 14:27:16 yeah, only "issue" is that ubuntu jaunty is armv5t, and freerunner is armv4t Jan 15 14:27:26 armv5t ? Jan 15 14:28:02 omap 2 is not armv6 Jan 15 14:28:03 ? Jan 15 14:28:17 Khertan: yes, but 770 is armv5t for instance Jan 15 14:28:22 or zaurus Jan 15 14:28:30 hmmm... but using the right flags for compilation should be possible to port Jan 15 14:28:34 hello zenvoid :) Jan 15 14:28:42 zenvoid: yeah, - just building all the needed packages Jan 15 14:28:43 hello wazd :) Jan 15 14:29:06 the xserver is also different Jan 15 14:29:08 so you make different build for 770 and n8x0 ? Jan 15 14:29:35 Khertan: no, we don't need to (we do need to change some kernel modules, but thats about it), ubuntu is optimized for armv5te Jan 15 14:29:40 which works on armv6te too Jan 15 14:29:55 zenvoid: yeah, - we had a bit of a split between Xorg and Xomap too, but we are on Xorg now Jan 15 14:30:20 hum ... optimized like using a 32bits system on 64bits arch ? :) Jan 15 14:30:24 I have an n810 and 770, and compiled maemo for both with different optimized flags Jan 15 14:30:34 the trick was to use a wrapper Jan 15 14:30:56 basically a shell script called "gcc" that calls the real gcc Jan 15 14:31:01 zenvoid: additionally our relation to Nokia is based on the invitation in http://maemo.org/news/announcements/first_maemo_5_sdk_release_targeting_platform_developers/ ("This early release..") Jan 15 14:31:02 with the correct flags Jan 15 14:31:11 zenvoid: it's also possible to use SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS posibly Jan 15 14:31:38 Khertan: yeah, using HWCAP to optimize certain libraries Jan 15 14:32:40 :) Jan 15 14:32:42 I will try SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS, I just discovered this var right now ;-) Jan 15 14:33:09 zenvoid: besides that there's always the brainstorms on http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed -> http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint -> http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New Jan 15 14:33:26 the last one is probably going to be rewritten :P Jan 15 14:34:07 hum ... mer will have his own repository ? Jan 15 14:34:08 and in additional to people above, andrewfblack works on an Echo-like theme for Mer as well :P Jan 15 14:34:24 it will be an interesting weekend hacking my n810 :) Jan 15 14:34:34 hehe Jan 15 14:34:47 hello Jan 15 14:34:49 but does we will be able to use the extras and extras-devel on it ? Jan 15 14:35:02 Stskeeps: Speaking of that I really need a new name for it it looks nothing like Echo now lol Jan 15 14:35:09 andrewfblack: MerAndrew? ;) Jan 15 14:35:13 lol Jan 15 14:35:19 Khertan: yes, the idea is to be able to recompile without issue (provided you haven't used non-portable stuff) Jan 15 14:35:38 but when you've compiled, your stuff will work on x86, n8x0, zaurus, etc Jan 15 14:35:46 great Jan 15 14:35:49 Stskeeps: will the latest installer handle nm-applet? Jan 15 14:36:06 b-man: what url does your installer point to? Jan 15 14:36:18 0.6 Jan 15 14:36:36 hold on, i'll grab it Jan 15 14:37:28 http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.6.tar.gz Jan 15 14:37:32 k, ta Jan 15 14:37:34 Stskeeps: I prefer sb2 over the old scratchbox, but currently has a bug: Jan 15 14:37:36 http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2008-December/000425.html Jan 15 14:37:40 is it useable at this time ? Jan 15 14:37:53 zenvoid: do you use the Maemo-SDK+ qemu? Jan 15 14:38:11 (trust me, it helps) Jan 15 14:38:30 :( Jan 15 14:38:42 it did not ask me where to install Jan 15 14:38:47 again? Jan 15 14:38:50 Stskeeps: yes I use it Jan 15 14:38:52 again Jan 15 14:38:55 what!?!? Jan 15 14:39:06 zenvoid: but yeah, sb2 has a lot of those quirks Jan 15 14:39:13 i spent a couple of weeks on it but went back to sb1 Jan 15 14:39:18 and it did not aks me what partition to use for swap Jan 15 14:39:40 Meiz_n810: i'm going to owe you a bottle of vodka or two at some point :P Jan 15 14:39:43 i'm gonna reboot and see if that helps Jan 15 14:39:47 0_o Jan 15 14:39:55 Stskeeps: lol Jan 15 14:40:07 it worked fine for me 0_o Jan 15 14:40:11 :) rebooting now Jan 15 14:40:17 Meiz_n810: edit the installer script btw and use /mer/mer-n800-fs-only-image.tar.gz instead of the 0.6 Jan 15 14:40:44 do you plan to deliver Mer with applications ? does there is some decision already done about that ? Jan 15 14:41:06 Khertan: a X terminal is basic - but yes, of course we hope to deliver it with content Jan 15 14:41:16 but content that can be removed easily Jan 15 14:41:27 so anyone can build their own firmware image if wanted :P Jan 15 14:41:35 (bake your own) Jan 15 14:41:47 stskeeps, and a web browser, to found the xterm command help :) Jan 15 14:42:05 Khertan: yeah, i hope we'll be able to have tablet-browser-ui at some point, and of course, webkit engine ;) Jan 15 14:42:26 Stskeeps: for me making my own image isn't a priority ... it s more easy to use apt-get install :) Jan 15 14:42:30 hehe Jan 15 14:42:36 Send in your proposals, quick: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/15/nfc_forum_comp_extended/ Jan 15 14:43:55 zenvoid: anyway, if you'd like to, sign up on launchpad, and request to join https://launchpad.net/~mer-committers Jan 15 14:44:09 RST38h: ? what is NFC Forum's ? Jan 15 14:44:18 it's our current cooperation infrastructure until garage git is okay Jan 15 14:44:54 Khertan: NFCs are Near Field Communication devices Jan 15 14:45:07 ah ... ;) Jan 15 14:45:18 Khertan: smart RFID transmitters built into your phone and letting you pay for things basically Jan 15 14:45:37 Stskeeps: you want me to change mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.6.tar.gz to mer-n800-fs-only-image.tar.gz instead? :) Jan 15 14:45:39 Stskeeps: thanks, I will sign up there Jan 15 14:45:52 Khertan: it is not clear why this stuff should be expensive though Jan 15 14:45:53 b-man: nah, not right now Jan 15 14:45:56 b-man: it was just for meiz testing Jan 15 14:46:04 k Jan 15 14:46:11 b-man: having ability to edit url that it gets the image from could help though Jan 15 14:46:16 RST38h: to resume : something useless and expensive which can seriously break anonimity Jan 15 14:46:27 you can :) Jan 15 14:46:37 zenvoid: we have a builder of sorts that builds x86 and armv5te packages and uploads to repository on http://jaiku.com/channel/merbuilder (just msg me your mail address if you want a jaiku invite Jan 15 14:46:37 from a zenity window Jan 15 14:46:49 Khertan: lots of thingscan break anonymity (you are paying with credit card,s aren't you? :)) Jan 15 14:47:15 RST38h: i don't understand why it so expensive ... i ve a train pass in my pocket which already have rfid ... Jan 15 14:47:20 b-man / Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/m1f2a625b Jan 15 14:47:27 Khertan: What makes this particular one more expensive thaan average rfid chip (few pennies) with I2C inerface is unclear Jan 15 14:47:27 RST38h: i try to avoid ... :) Jan 15 14:47:30 zenvoid: and a microblogging on http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC :) Jan 15 14:47:38 zenvoid: sorry for all the information, i should really put this in a page :) Jan 15 14:47:51 Khertan: what a terrorist you are! =) Jan 15 14:48:05 RST38h: nope ... my phone is connected :) Jan 15 14:48:35 Stskeeps: haha :-) I'm bookmarking all those urls... Jan 15 14:48:36 Stskeeps: hope info on mer grabbed on the fly ... Jan 15 14:48:44 Khertan: see, can't avoid it Jan 15 14:49:27 stskeeps: i don't ask before as i don't want to disturb you to get a stable mer release as soon as possible :) Jan 15 14:49:53 Khertan: i'm always up for discussion Jan 15 14:50:27 Meiz_n810: hold on, i'll upload a fix for that in a sec Jan 15 14:50:28 Khertan: the only risk is that people end up actually taking part themselves when discussing the issues ;) Jan 15 14:51:00 Stskeeps: i have one suggestion about the start-hildon script, if you remove the "-dialog_mode static" from matchbox-window-manager startup command, dialogs can be moved, but they still appear in right place Jan 15 14:51:02 b-man: put "set -x -e" in the top of your script after #!/bin/sh Jan 15 14:51:03 Had some complants about the arrows I used in MerEcho so I redid them all new screenshot https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/5232/screenshot02.png Jan 15 14:51:20 b-man: that way it stops when it encounters an error Jan 15 14:51:35 ok, thanks :) Jan 15 14:51:40 Stskeeps: héhé Jan 15 14:51:42 Meizirkki: interesting Jan 15 14:51:46 Hohoho: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a-giant-hologram.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news Jan 15 14:51:57 RST38h: that explains Bush. Jan 15 14:52:12 your mom's a giant hologram Jan 15 14:52:22 andrew: yep, much nicer Jan 15 14:52:26 in star trek, there were always the obnoxious characters in holoprograms Jan 15 14:52:27 :P Jan 15 14:52:36 andrewfblack: looks good :) Jan 15 14:52:49 Sts: the only thing that explains Bush is a story of apocalypsis Jan 15 14:53:01 Sts: He is one of the horses. Jan 15 14:54:38 I feel its just about done unless you guys can thing of anything else let me know Jan 15 14:54:40 andrew: you may want to fill the scroll bar background with some pattern Jan 15 14:55:09 Meiz_n810: fixed the problem, it turned out that it was looking for partitions.lst in the wrong path :p Jan 15 14:55:13 andrew: if you are definitely AGAINST having a background there, at least draw a thin dashed or dotted line that shows where the scroll bar is Jan 15 14:55:30 * b-man starts re-building deb Jan 15 14:55:38 RST38h I'll take a look at it with pattern or with just a line Jan 15 14:56:29 "shaped like a Pringle" -- apparently noone knows what saddles are anymore Jan 15 14:56:41 zenvoid: anyway, when you're too shell shocked from reading all the material, i'd like to know what areas you like to work on with regards to Maemo platform and such :) Jan 15 14:56:43 * lardman wonders if there's an alarm clock on his n810 Jan 15 14:56:47 like, what you think is fun :) Jan 15 14:56:56 lardman: there's one in Clock application Jan 15 14:56:57 lardman: Built-in `Clock' app has alarm feature Jan 15 14:57:03 thanks chaps Jan 15 14:57:05 mavhc: Pringles producer paid for placing an ad =) Jan 15 14:57:10 lardman: don't rely on it though :P Jan 15 14:57:24 TTOTD: Don't rely on a tablet for anything Jan 15 14:57:33 Only Nokia could make an alarm clock fail. Jan 15 14:57:38 Stskeeps: yeah, ok Jan 15 14:57:44 Results 1 - 3 of 3 for pringle saddle negative-curve Jan 15 14:58:00 alarm clock is nothing Jan 15 14:58:04 GeneralAntilles: nope ... try the palm one Jan 15 14:58:17 on S60, status screen and screensaver often crash Jan 15 14:58:52 nokia even hides the error mesages starting with s60e3 Jan 15 15:00:32 Stskeeps: yeah, I need to rebuild/hack and get an overall idea of the current state, and then I'll probably know what to do :P Jan 15 15:00:37 hehe Jan 15 15:00:55 a SD card on 2gb is a good tool at least :) Jan 15 15:01:38 zenvoid: oh, and r2d2rogers does the 770 port Jan 15 15:01:44 just so you know who's-who Jan 15 15:01:59 we have some awkward sapwood problems on there, but that's a different saga Jan 15 15:02:35 oh, yes, I hate the sapwood engine Jan 15 15:03:04 in fact, it is partially replaced by clearlooks in my theme Jan 15 15:03:08 clearlooks? Jan 15 15:03:30 yes... give me a minute, I will upload the debs to a public space Jan 15 15:03:50 what tool do you use for theme making btw? kontorri's? Jan 15 15:05:28 RST38h: I ran a simple lin to connect the arrows on both sides it looks good but I'm not going to make a new release for a few days Jan 15 15:05:56 but you can grab it from http://www.andrewblck.com/Stuff/Themes Jan 15 15:07:06 andrew: do check if a dashed or dotted line looks better Jan 15 15:07:52 Meiz_n810: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.6.1-1_armel.deb - shuld fix the problem Jan 15 15:08:14 you better have added the -x -e ;) Jan 15 15:08:30 time to get some food and watch some TV Jan 15 15:08:51 Stskeeps: i did ;) Jan 15 15:10:10 Sounds like a superhero. Jan 15 15:10:26 Andrew F Black away! Jan 15 15:10:58 *dramatic hero music* Jan 15 15:13:40 Stskeeps: adding set -e -x in the script causes the installer to fail :( Jan 15 15:13:50 b-man: fair enough, where does it fail? Jan 15 15:14:17 right at the simple/advanced stage Jan 15 15:14:26 pastebin what happens :) Jan 15 15:14:33 k Jan 15 15:17:26 I'm looking at the MerEcho screenshot, it looks great Jan 15 15:18:34 anyways, here is another theme if someone wants to try: Jan 15 15:18:37 http://zenvoid.org/tmp/ Jan 15 15:18:40 Stskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1309183 Jan 15 15:19:44 it doesn't seem to display an error, witch is strange Jan 15 15:20:01 b-man: # Jan 15 15:20:01 b-man: + [ = 1 ] Jan 15 15:20:01 # Jan 15 15:20:03 sh: 1: unknown operand Jan 15 15:20:04 btw? Jan 15 15:20:24 you should do if [ x$whatever = x1 ] :) Jan 15 15:22:07 thanks Jan 15 15:22:32 b-man: the reason why it stops is cos gxmessage returns 1 or 2 Jan 15 15:22:58 basically you should add some error handlers.. Jan 15 15:23:09 how can i do that? Jan 15 15:23:42 * Stskeeps ponders if sh has an "or die" thing Jan 15 15:24:11 hehe Jan 15 15:24:14 nope Jan 15 15:24:39 URL=http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.6.tar.gz Jan 15 15:24:40 ok? Jan 15 15:24:49 is there a newer one? Jan 15 15:24:59 Meiz_n810: yeah, editing that one, to the one i mentioned earlier Jan 15 15:25:10 ok Jan 15 15:25:46 b-man: if [ $? != 0 ]; then something bad happened fi Jan 15 15:25:50 after running a command Jan 15 15:25:58 (and remove the set -x -e again Jan 15 15:26:03 basically any command that -needs- to work Jan 15 15:26:34 (dont ask this with zenity for instance Jan 15 15:26:59 ok Jan 15 15:27:02 zenvoid: the advantage of sapwood is however the caching of pixmaps Jan 15 15:27:13 btw https://code.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/hildon-theme-layout-4 is our theme layout Jan 15 15:27:18 394 is the most important Jan 15 15:29:57 Stskeeps: yes, I know, sapwood is good for the hildon menu and other things... while trying to port apps I've noticed some gtk widgets not themed... Jan 15 15:30:02 *nod* Jan 15 15:30:09 and then I mixed both sapwood and clearlooks Jan 15 15:30:31 GeneralAntilles: btw, release announcement says per-week alpha sdk updates (-when alpha comes out-) Jan 15 15:30:43 which is probably why we haven't gotten it yet :) Jan 15 15:30:49 Yeah, should be soon. Jan 15 15:31:05 weekly cvssnapshotsshouldnotbethathard Jan 15 15:31:15 Yeah, we're in pre-alpha Jan 15 15:31:59 Stskeeps, and, yes, I'm aware of the plan. I've talked to Quim about it. Jan 15 15:32:06 Soon. Jan 15 15:32:13 alright Jan 15 15:33:18 i'll be pretty furious if alpha sdk comes out in the next 7 days, really :) Jan 15 15:33:36 when that happened last time i was in the midst of finishing my semester :P Jan 15 15:34:12 and scaringily, maemo >= homework Jan 15 15:34:13 :P Jan 15 15:35:51 OH MY GOD !!!! NOOOOOO !!! I NEED TO INSTALL VISUAL STUDIO ON MY WORK COMPUTER ! Jan 15 15:35:57 Hehe. Jan 15 15:36:08 Khertan: thinking about quitting? Jan 15 15:36:13 So, what will it be: C# or VB.NET? Jan 15 15:36:17 I feel your pain, man ;-) Jan 15 15:36:42 still supports C too ;) Jan 15 15:37:34 RST38h: the two in the same project ! Jan 15 15:37:58 Khertan: there is no limit of Linux/FOSS related jobs all around the world.. Jan 15 15:38:19 suihkulokki: yep all around the world ... this is the problem ! Jan 15 15:38:22 not near my home Jan 15 15:39:52 Khertan: Secretly implement it all in Python, with C# bindings Jan 15 15:40:01 Then quit! Jan 15 15:40:16 ironpython? :P Jan 15 15:40:25 RST38h, you cant do that, they would notice the apps run faster and ask questions Jan 15 15:40:39 RST38h: hum ... this is a solution ... :) Jan 15 15:41:05 where exactly do live then... ? Jan 15 15:41:07 lcuk:they will just blaim it on Khertan's superior programming skill Jan 15 15:41:09 khertan :) if its any consolation im in the same boat :) Jan 15 15:41:55 s/blaim/blame Jan 15 15:42:05 no, really, this is getting annoying Jan 15 15:42:12 i'm the project leader :) Jan 15 15:43:33 then choose to write it in ironpython Jan 15 15:43:34 .P Jan 15 15:43:40 then why do you need to install programming language? Jan 15 15:43:54 besides, "not willing to move" is certainly one of the best ways to avoid exciting jobs :P Jan 15 15:43:59 just buy a whip and drum Jan 15 15:44:31 suihkulokki, many people cannot upsticks and move, theres families and lives and other complex things Jan 15 15:44:40 not warm O_o Jan 15 15:44:44 morning johnx Jan 15 15:44:45 because the company is so small that ... a project leader is also a developper :) Jan 15 15:44:48 johnx, meet zenvoid Jan 15 15:44:57 khertan :) Jan 15 15:44:57 Stskeeps: I'm starting to think that there is very little in my maemo fork that could be useful in Mer... I currently have several GB of outdated *things* in my hard disk and lot of patches packages that I don't even remember :S Jan 15 15:45:01 ah, hey zenvoid :D Jan 15 15:45:14 zenvoid: hehe, on the other hand, your experience is worth a lot Jan 15 15:45:29 yeah, time to start again, more fun :-) Jan 15 15:45:50 so what other things did you do than theme, and you mentioned upstart and such? Jan 15 15:47:24 Stskeeps: yes, upstart, custom scripts for booting, usbnet integrated in libconic (should be in the connection manager, but it is closed source) Jan 15 15:47:31 b-man: installer seems to work now :) Jan 15 15:47:50 cool :) Jan 15 15:47:58 after removing the x=e whaatever Jan 15 15:47:59 zenvoid, this wasn't the case then, but you can write plugins for the icd in diablo now Jan 15 15:48:10 zenvoid: yeah, icd is a bit of a bitch but it's also a lot better than NM in some ways... :P Jan 15 15:48:25 qwerty12: ahh, good to know Jan 15 15:49:33 Stskeeps: ... started to replace sounds with free ones (made from scratch, synthesized) Jan 15 15:49:39 zenvoid: oh, we definately need that part too Jan 15 15:49:52 bbl Jan 15 15:50:18 zenvoid: i've had someone complain that the touch screen taps didn't make sounds, when i did Deblet :) Jan 15 15:50:26 Stskeeps: ... and replaced some components with free alternatives. To be honest I must say I forgoten what changes I did, I will take a look at my own code again :-) Jan 15 15:50:27 as it serves as a feedback for some Jan 15 15:50:44 zenvoid: which components for instance? i'm curious :) Jan 15 15:51:22 keyboard select in the panel, some applets in the statusbar... Jan 15 15:51:34 *nod* Jan 15 15:51:46 * b-man just designed a much better way for the installer to know weather you've sucsessfuly connected to the wed or not :) Jan 15 15:52:04 ... and others I don't remember... I will look :) Jan 15 15:52:04 hi, does anyone know how to link the library 'lpthread' into a maemo application so that I can use pthreads ? must something be added to the configure.ac or makefile.am files ? Jan 15 15:52:38 add it to the linker commands? Jan 15 15:53:17 Stskeeps: I can create the sounds, it is very easy with softsynths Jan 15 15:53:29 zynaddsubfx, for example Jan 15 15:53:50 yeah.. had a course on digitial audio but i'm not strictly creative in that area Jan 15 15:53:55 digital, i mean Jan 15 15:54:24 zenvoid, this is all great stuff. :D problems we haven't even started to look at are already getting solved :) Jan 15 15:54:26 Stskeeps: are you creative in analog audio? Jan 15 15:54:35 zenvoid: not either :> Jan 15 15:54:36 notcoolbuthot: LDFLAGS+=-lpthreads or similar? Jan 15 15:54:46 johnx: glad to help Jan 15 15:54:57 where should I add them to the linker commands ? I know you can add this library in the command line when gcc-ing from the console Jan 15 15:55:12 what are you compiling? Jan 15 15:55:23 but I need it specified in the configure.ac so that in eclipse, the generate configure will work Jan 15 15:56:08 I'm compiling a custom application of mine Jan 15 15:56:09 Stskeeps: well, neither I do... but I'm in the freepats project :D Jan 15 15:56:16 why not generate the configure script, then call it like so?: "LDFLAGS="-lpthreads" ./configure" Jan 15 15:56:30 if you need sound ... i can create many ! Jan 15 15:56:48 Khertan: really? Jan 15 15:56:57 nope :) Jan 15 15:57:06 :) Jan 15 15:57:07 depends on what you need Jan 15 15:57:12 Khertan: farting sounds doesn't count ;) Jan 15 15:57:12 a metal sound theme ? Jan 15 15:57:23 some guitar riff ? Jan 15 15:57:33 a nice piano melody at startup ? Jan 15 15:57:34 Stskeeps, if you (by any chance) need a software midi synthesizer app, I'll put in a plug for timidity :P Jan 15 15:57:39 qwerty12: hehe Jan 15 15:57:45 Khertan: that would be nice :) Jan 15 15:58:16 actually a startup piano sound might be kind of nice. definitely different than other systems, which is good Jan 15 15:58:21 hmm, alarm did work, but came up in a normal window, with normal buttons and normal text, not maemo-fied Jan 15 15:58:58 lardman: trying to replicate a bug or? Jan 15 15:58:59 RST38h: Is that too much for symbian?) http://s57.radikal.ru/i157/0901/c3/dd2a9d79183f.png Jan 15 15:59:00 you see ... saying stupid things can give idea for great things :) Jan 15 15:59:07 johnx: it should be very easy to create with free tools, see http://zenvoid.org/audio.html Jan 15 15:59:20 do you have preferences for the piano melody ? Jan 15 15:59:25 it looks that I will be doing audio things :) Jan 15 15:59:29 Stskeeps: no, just reminding myself to go invigilate Jan 15 15:59:33 jazz / blues / classic ? Jan 15 15:59:47 or a /dev/random > /dev/sound Jan 15 16:00:15 cu Jan 15 16:00:35 Khertan: Just a few notes, I think... Jan 15 16:00:47 wazd: sorry, have been away Jan 15 16:01:01 Khertan, something that makes you think "yay! I just booted into Mer! hope and peace." :) Jan 15 16:01:22 johnx: ocean sound? :P Jan 15 16:01:22 RST38h: np) Jan 15 16:01:32 * qwerty12 suggests having forward riddim as the startup tune Jan 15 16:01:34 wazd: I think Symbian should handle it just fine, unless that black shadow at the LCD screen is a "real" shadow (i.e. based on opacity setting) Jan 15 16:01:35 Stskeeps, with seaguls? Jan 15 16:01:43 johnx: there is actually a sound like that in Maemo Jan 15 16:01:50 in the alarm clock Jan 15 16:01:51 preferences for real sound (mean recorded for a real piano), or a synthetic one ? Jan 15 16:01:56 RST38h: nope, that's just black rectangle) Jan 15 16:02:11 Stskeeps, aaah, yeah the alarm sound that tricks you into thinking you got drunk and fell asleep on the beach again Jan 15 16:02:13 RST38h: I've done as you said, no gradients and effects Jan 15 16:02:26 Khertan: do you have a real piano? Jan 15 16:02:27 johnx: yeah, i've had some pretty interesting final dream moments based on it Jan 15 16:02:31 zenvoid: yep Jan 15 16:03:02 Stskeeps, though actually it's less grating than any other alarm I ever had. dunno if it would wake me up after a while though...I might tune it out Jan 15 16:03:12 Khertan: oh, that is very good. Do you mind joining to the freepats project? ;-) Jan 15 16:03:34 freepats ? Jan 15 16:03:35 (http://freepats.opensrc.org/) Jan 15 16:04:52 * wazd gone to unload car full of 50kg bags of Rotband x( Jan 15 16:05:23 hum ... i think i need better tool to record the sound of my piano to get something usefull ... Jan 15 16:06:39 wazd: I will try placing it into Maemo and Symbian versions tonight (once I get some free time) Jan 15 16:06:43 Khertan: hehe, just the opposite, I have a nice recording equipment and no piano ;-) Jan 15 16:07:09 Meiz_n810: installer works so far? Jan 15 16:07:42 wazd: BTW, you can probably make GB a bit shorter by shrinking space beweeen LCD and buttons - this way it should look closer to the real thing and also the icon can be made a bit bigger Jan 15 16:10:21 Stskeeps: yep, it's downloading atm Jan 15 16:10:28 Meiz_n810: good Jan 15 16:10:35 and it didn't destroy anything this time? ;) Jan 15 16:11:14 nope Jan 15 16:12:20 it works fine so far, now it's unpacking Jan 15 16:12:51 anyone tested powerlaunch? http://powerlaunch.garage.maemo.org/ Jan 15 16:13:07 I tested it on mer, didn't work so well... Jan 15 16:13:09 zenvoid: it is a very interesting tool but also in dire need of a good HOWTO Jan 15 16:13:18 ahh, ok Jan 15 16:13:28 it is basically a small scripting language for event handling Jan 15 16:13:35 zenvoid: last time i tried there was no support for n810, so it did not work in my n810 really well Jan 15 16:13:50 such as, push the top button => show the dialog for shut down, offline mode etc Jan 15 16:13:55 or push twice, rescue mode Jan 15 16:13:57 or other things Jan 15 16:14:08 it is, very powerful, but also in need of some rethinking Jan 15 16:14:38 ok Jan 15 16:15:13 and we've considered using it in Mer since it is a systemui and mce replacement Jan 15 16:15:53 that is also the reason that got my attention :) Jan 15 16:16:35 right now we're holding out on OHM release (which should get rid of MCE) Jan 15 16:16:55 but there's a definate need for a powerlaunch like thing to act as an outside process to the hildon desktop, etc Jan 15 16:17:43 Stskeeps, what events does powerlaunch act on? just the buttons? Jan 15 16:18:03 johnx: sec Jan 15 16:18:26 will the OHM be on the upcoming maemo 5? Jan 15 16:18:31 zenvoid: yeah Jan 15 16:18:41 as opensource? Jan 15 16:18:56 yeah, but it might have some closed source plugins Jan 15 16:18:59 zenvoid, yup. they're pushing it as a solution for other platforms too Jan 15 16:19:13 that's very good Jan 15 16:19:22 * johnx RTFM on powerlaunch Jan 15 16:20:03 ah, touchscreen, keys, dbus, and gconf. awesome Jan 15 16:20:28 it would be nice feature in Mer, that once the screen is locked, cpu is put in powersave Jan 15 16:20:30 johnx: and glade, etc.. Jan 15 16:20:46 maybe not... Jan 15 16:21:22 Meizirkki, :) There's a neat presentation on how powersaving works on the omap2. any interest? Jan 15 16:21:24 pwrsave mode really saves power but it really slows cpu down too Jan 15 16:21:24 Meiz_n810: yes/no - it's more on the lines of "if you want to make this happen, you can do it quite easily by scripting X" Jan 15 16:21:42 johnx: yep Jan 15 16:21:56 johnx: having powerlaunch ported to mer would be a bonus though. but most of the confs have to be rewritten Jan 15 16:22:28 basically, we should hook austinche in some way to get cracking on Mer.. ;) Jan 15 16:23:18 Meizirkki: it s not a good idea ... mine many time do many things while screen is locked Jan 15 16:23:26 Meizirkki, http://www.slideshare.net/igor_stoppa_nokia/power-management-for-the-nokia-internet-tablets Jan 15 16:23:28 Meizirkki: or with an option Jan 15 16:23:28 Meizirkki, johnx, powersave when locked should be an option only, i routinely run machine using ssh and command line with it totally locked - compilation on device is pretty much 10x slower in powersave vs performance Jan 15 16:23:52 yeah Jan 15 16:24:12 * lcuk leaves machine on performance all the time Jan 15 16:24:25 I could be implemented as a configurable option in the CP, so everyone is happy Jan 15 16:24:41 a question lcuk ... when we set the performance mode in liqbase ... Jan 15 16:24:50 misbehaving applications drain the battery when in performance mode, not the fact its in performance ;) Jan 15 16:24:55 zenvoid: there also exists advanced power which has those kind of options too Jan 15 16:25:02 does that is only for liqbase or does it s keep after exiting ? Jan 15 16:25:41 no, it leaves it for everything until reboot, but the trunk version here now does it differently, it does a turbo mode - when in certain screens it automatically powers up to performance (with an option of course) Jan 15 16:25:59 hum .... Jan 15 16:26:08 as i don't see any differences :) Jan 15 16:26:19 b-man / Stskeeps: installer finished! :) Jan 15 16:26:22 dont see any differences where? Jan 15 16:26:22 so my problem is a memory pb Jan 15 16:26:23 Meiz_n810: woo Jan 15 16:26:30 lcuk: in performances Jan 15 16:26:33 (i did not flash bootmenu Jan 15 16:26:40 performance of *what* though? Jan 15 16:26:54 Meiz_n810: you had deblet bootmenu before? Jan 15 16:26:55 gcc runs really fast in performance and crap in powersave Jan 15 16:27:07 as in, do you have bootmenu right now? Jan 15 16:27:08 of my apps, webpage parsing ... and many other things Jan 15 16:27:08 Stskeeps: yes Jan 15 16:27:13 k Jan 15 16:27:20 Meiz_n810: feel free to check if the .item matches your expectations Jan 15 16:27:26 (actually, pastebin me it.) Jan 15 16:27:32 khertan, your biggest problem is python itself :) Jan 15 16:27:33 the one it generated Jan 15 16:27:38 lcuk: nope Jan 15 16:27:44 Meizirkki, the short version of that presentation is: when the omap2 is idle (ie, no programs are trying to do something) the CPU turns off and a 32KHz timer runs to keep track of when to wake up again. so performance mode or powersave mode doesn't matter as long as notthing is running Jan 15 16:27:45 the biggest one is browserd Jan 15 16:28:18 johnx, is that the reason why i can run in performance all day - ie justification for what i said up there? Jan 15 16:28:36 lcuk, exactly. :) you'd probably like that presentation too Jan 15 16:28:44 khertan, what are you using browserd for? Jan 15 16:28:46 lcuk: Give up already and compile on the host Jan 15 16:28:47 yeah please Jan 15 16:28:53 no rst Jan 15 16:29:03 there is a reason im working directly from the device Jan 15 16:29:16 Stskeeps: no quotation marks... Jan 15 16:29:17 they have taken your computer away? =) Jan 15 16:29:18 http://pastebin.com/m565f7c01 Jan 15 16:29:31 quick read. lots of nice pictures :) if you missed it search for 'slideshare.com' in your scrollback Jan 15 16:29:35 lcuk : for reading the gtk documentation Jan 15 16:29:43 lower the bar for native applet/small application development to simply become "install IDE on windows/linux/max host and run Jan 15 16:29:52 That item actually works? Jan 15 16:30:12 Meiz_n810: okay, think we should get bman to look at that Jan 15 16:30:20 lcuk: hear hear Jan 15 16:30:20 Stskeeps: mmcblk0 is the external card to use with initfs btw Jan 15 16:30:22 ok Jan 15 16:30:46 Meiz_n810: is it the installer .item or your own? Jan 15 16:30:54 lcuk: well, it is close to that, with some unfortunate gotchas Jan 15 16:31:09 lcuk: is that wrong though? Jan 15 16:31:14 johnx: ok Jan 15 16:31:15 RST38h, yeah, like: if you're on windows, fuck off and die Jan 15 16:31:22 johnx: yep ;) Jan 15 16:31:59 Stskeeps: installer of course Jan 15 16:31:59 RST38h, turns out windows guys want to write us apps too. I don't think a trial by fire is necessary... Jan 15 16:32:37 And OS X too Jan 15 16:32:40 johnx: Ubuntu is relatively painless to install even for a Windows guy Jan 15 16:32:41 Meiz_n810: alright Jan 15 16:32:50 johnx: You end up sacrificing 5-10GB of your HD though Jan 15 16:33:00 Meiz_n810: can you check if it boots (i presume you have a boot menu item alrady)? Jan 15 16:33:08 RST38h, yeah, but dual booting is annoying and many people actually don't want to mess around running a VM Jan 15 16:33:09 ok Jan 15 16:33:19 RST38h: there is nothing more painful than installing vista, man ;-) Jan 15 16:33:21 * Meiz_n810 boots Jan 15 16:33:49 zenvoid, haha, I've installed vista 7 times (upgrades & fresh installs)... :P Jan 15 16:33:58 dual booting, vmware, scratchbox all make it HARD. sure for some levels of dev its required but not for the sorts of things most people wanna write Jan 15 16:33:59 johnx: Well, if you remember I have always insisted on having a "normal" Maemo SDK, but given that it is not going to happen, Ubuntu is the only way Jan 15 16:34:10 johnx: It is better than typing and compiling on a tablet Jan 15 16:34:23 RST38h, not so sure on that... Jan 15 16:34:32 johnx: try ;) Jan 15 16:34:33 * RST38h did Jan 15 16:34:35 adv-* series all can be done on device, all the alarm clock applets games and funky stuff. simple little starter projects :) Jan 15 16:34:50 Stskeeps: seems to boot.. Jan 15 16:35:00 anyway, bbl :) Jan 15 16:35:02 RST38h, so did I. sometimes it's a good first test: does this work if I compile native? then I can sort out cross-compile errors later Jan 15 16:35:08 i love the mer splash-screen :) Jan 15 16:35:20 Meizirkki: you should see the rescue menu too Jan 15 16:35:32 johnx: I can't edit on a tablet even if I can compile there, sorry Jan 15 16:35:34 RST38h, and if you have a small codebase and don't need to compile support libs it's totally tractable, especially if you can do it in an sd chroot Jan 15 16:35:48 johnx: there is no way to do reliable input right now Jan 15 16:35:58 Stskeeps, have you released any new tarballs recently? Jan 15 16:36:07 Stskeeps, i'll try the rescue menu too, it worked in my earlier installation Jan 15 16:36:20 RST38h, yeah, no shit. I might show my ignorance but is there a reason you can't edit in an IDE, then rsync to the tablet and tell it "compile this"? Jan 15 16:36:22 qwerty12: i have a unofficial one atm Jan 15 16:36:29 ah, fair enough Jan 15 16:36:37 johnx: Yes there is a reason Jan 15 16:36:40 Stskeeps: pressing enter in h-i-m seems to crash Xorg too Jan 15 16:36:43 not sure Jan 15 16:36:45 Meizirkki: .. Jan 15 16:36:48 lovely Jan 15 16:36:58 ahaha Jan 15 16:37:01 enter and backspace Jan 15 16:37:01 johnx: I have got a much faster compiler where I have got IDE, so why compile on a tablet? =) Jan 15 16:37:14 RST38h, options. it's all about options :) Jan 15 16:37:23 johnx: nah, it is about common sense Jan 15 16:37:41 being able to compile on the tablet does not preclude compiling in scratchbox. if I couldn't do both I would have given up by now Jan 15 16:37:45 johnx: most commercial developers will use the easiest, fastest, most painless route Jan 15 16:38:06 johnx: So, options are good, but the only option that gets used in practice is the sanest one Jan 15 16:38:08 RST38h, right now there isn't a route that fits that description and so they just go away Jan 15 16:38:23 johnx: they go away for a different reason - no market Jan 15 16:38:27 Why is this channel home to some of the most pointless arguments? Jan 15 16:38:37 johnx: if there were a market, you wouldn't see them going away ;))) Jan 15 16:38:40 qwerty12: it's IRC? Jan 15 16:38:46 qwerty: it is irc! Jan 15 16:38:48 "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" -- Albert Einstein Jan 15 16:38:56 Stskeeps, RST38h: hehe :P Jan 15 16:39:15 RST38h, any roadblock removed is a good thing in my opinion Jan 15 16:39:19 qwerty12: there's bound to be some golden nuggets in the discussions once in a while though Jan 15 16:39:27 I'm back Jan 15 16:39:39 But that was too heavy for me) Jan 15 16:39:50 johnx: we won't see this happen any time soon, so realistically, just have to live with things as they are =( Jan 15 16:39:57 wazd, it builds character :) Jan 15 16:40:10 wazd: piano delivery? =) Jan 15 16:40:13 b-man: installer works good but there's problems with the bootmenu item generation Jan 15 16:40:24 RST38h: kinda) Jan 15 16:40:46 RST38h, easily compiling anything natively is already possible in Mer. It's just a question of becoming more popular than Nokia's distro :) Jan 15 16:40:57 http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.7.1-1_armel.deb uploaded - includes a re-designed wifi connection system and has a fuew minor fixes Jan 15 16:41:13 b-man: http://pastebin.com/m565f7c01 - you should use "'s in the output (use \" when outputting), missing ITEM_MODULES, ITEM_FSTYPE, and ITEM_DEVICE should be ${INT_CARD}pX or ${EXT_CARD}pX Jan 15 16:41:43 ok, will do ;) Jan 15 16:41:50 hehe, just trying to help :) Jan 15 16:42:12 :) Jan 15 16:43:57 johnx: one answer: speed Jan 15 16:44:12 johnx: You can easily compile whatever you want but it takes ages Jan 15 16:44:37 So there is really no reason to do it, considering that you can't edit your code on the device well enough Jan 15 16:45:00 RST38h, Sorry. I'm done with this argument. got packages to hack on Jan 15 16:45:03 merinstaller ... Jan 15 16:45:26 i would like to try the current mer version Jan 15 16:45:37 does i should try the mer installer ... ? Jan 15 16:45:41 does it flash Jan 15 16:46:03 Khertan: the current setup is one that installs to a SD card, partitions it for you, and puts on the image for it Jan 15 16:46:13 we will -also- have kernel + rootfs images Jan 15 16:46:21 * b-man reviews some code Jan 15 16:47:01 b-man: i wonder if we can do a "I can see that you have cloned your Maemo OS to SD, want me to make a bootmenu item for it?" Jan 15 16:47:38 that would help a lot Jan 15 16:47:42 shure :) Jan 15 16:47:51 just remember how many people complained when deblet installer didn't make a bootmenu item :P Jan 15 16:48:02 hehe Jan 15 16:48:28 Stskeeps: so in need a boot menu :) Jan 15 16:48:36 Khertan: hopefully it will be piece of cake to get :) Jan 15 16:48:38 can do it myseld Jan 15 16:48:51 s/myseld/myself Jan 15 16:48:58 Stskeeps: does our kernel support usplash? Jan 15 16:49:09 b-man: no clue - we dont use usplash Jan 15 16:49:17 we use a custom made thing Jan 15 16:49:31 the problem is that i want to keep my external card in fat32 Jan 15 16:49:34 for file transfer Jan 15 16:49:54 Khertan, could you resize the fat32 partition? Jan 15 16:50:06 Khertan: basically there's two modes: simple - choose which SD you want to install into, and it'll make a fat32 partition, swap and rest ext3 Jan 15 16:50:13 and can't use the internal one in ext2 or ext3 as the swap file on maemo 4 is in the internal Jan 15 16:50:15 i have it installed in ubuntu and it's not working so i'm guessing no :) Jan 15 16:50:25 and advanced where you can choose how the partition one wants looks Jan 15 16:50:49 johnx> hum ... not a great idea to resize a fat32 partition :) Jan 15 16:50:57 Khertan, why not? Jan 15 16:51:07 anyway ... i ll do things differently ... Jan 15 16:51:10 seems to be working fine for me Jan 15 16:51:16 keep my data on internal meme Jan 15 16:51:30 memory ... and use the external card in ext3 Jan 15 16:51:31 Khertan: it is always possible to have a secondary external card though :) Jan 15 16:51:33 johnx: Have you seen the ubuntu woman story this morning btw? Jan 15 16:51:52 RST38h, already commented on it when you posted. don't really want to argue about it Jan 15 16:52:00 Stskeeps: yep ... but i don't want to bought an other microsd as i have plenty of useless sd card Jan 15 16:52:09 johnx: Who told you I was going to argue about it? :) Jan 15 16:52:10 * b-man need to go, bye :) Jan 15 16:52:52 RST38h, my original comment was something like "newsflash: dumb people are dumb, the register is a troll. story at 11." :) Jan 15 16:53:40 RST38h, and also that you could just as well do s/dell with ubuntu/mac/ and have the same story Jan 15 16:53:52 so i ll try to install it tomorrow ... :) Jan 15 16:54:31 johnx: oh, I have seen such stories with Macs, although they may have been on Onion :) Jan 15 16:54:41 a question if i format my sd card to ext2 ... when i mount it on linux does it ll be see as a mass storage and mount it ? Jan 15 16:55:15 (i mean when i connect my nit to a computer running a gnu/linux os) Jan 15 16:55:17 Khertan: if you use our installer it gives you a 50mb fat32 partition in the beginning, so it'll see it as mass storage Jan 15 16:55:29 it would actually see the ext2 too i guess Jan 15 16:55:38 it's just partitions, so :) Jan 15 16:56:00 Stskeeps: yep but as you know ... usb things are always strange Jan 15 16:56:07 Khertan: yeah :P Jan 15 16:56:32 like usb hard drive ... Jan 15 16:56:42 i still not understand why usb was so used ... Jan 15 16:57:12 there are other great way than that ... like firewire :) Jan 15 16:57:21 or eSCSI Jan 15 16:58:14 Khertan, because usb ports were on everyone's computer since 1998 Jan 15 16:59:02 never even saw a machine with eSCSI and firewire everyone seems to be a much more recent phenomemon. though, the tablet acts very normal in usb disk mode. just like a card reader Jan 15 16:59:27 s/everyone/everywhere/ <- fail Jan 15 16:59:37 dunno really anyone who used firewire for anything else than old ipods and dv cameras Jan 15 17:00:28 * RST38h just used 1394 a few days ago Jan 15 17:01:31 the one place where firewire wins hands down is the mac 'target disk mode' Jan 15 17:04:24 johnx > i have firewire since 1995 on a mac computer Jan 15 17:04:28 maybe this is that Jan 15 17:04:45 johnx: What a wonderful use for a Mac! Jan 15 17:04:50 * RST38h hides Jan 15 17:05:27 RST38h, admining macbooks / macbook pros is like the most trouble free job I ever had Jan 15 17:05:53 johnx: with features like that no wonder Jan 15 17:07:16 RST38h, yeah, mass multicast imaging was awesome. and target disk mode was awesome. only pain I ever had was making them sync to WinMo phones (don't ask me, that wasn't my call) Jan 15 17:08:36 urgh Jan 15 17:08:55 (don't ask me, that wasn't my call) .... haha ! Jan 15 17:08:55 :) Jan 15 17:09:55 and honestly, I spent as much time supporting two freaking windows boxen as I did 30+ Macs in three different locations Jan 15 17:10:17 Motorola kaputs another 4000 people Jan 15 17:10:45 so no razr v3adskg this year? Jan 15 17:11:06 4000? jesus Jan 15 17:11:12 johnx: they still have a lineup of some kind Jan 15 17:11:22 Sony isn't doing so hot either Jan 15 17:11:33 johnx: mostly budget phones with smartphone stuff centered around not yet ready android models Jan 15 17:11:57 johnx: but with losses like these, who knows? Jan 15 17:12:56 wazd: Around? Jan 15 17:13:20 RST38h, yeah...will be an interesting year (in the same sense as "May you live in interesting times.") Jan 15 17:14:35 RST38h: http://dump.ru/file/1432736 <- svg file, check if it's ok (Gameboy icon) Jan 15 17:16:02 johnx: what's your status btw? (not sure what you're working on :P) Jan 15 17:16:19 actually, was just gonna ask: anything I should be doing? Jan 15 17:16:42 I could look at powerlaunch, but there's questions as to how it fits in with OHM, right? and did you already poke at icon stuff? Jan 15 17:17:06 RST38h: on small resolutions it still looks near photoreal :) Jan 15 17:17:09 i18n? ;-) Jan 15 17:17:33 johnx: dbus i'd say Jan 15 17:17:40 dbus what? Jan 15 17:17:56 oh. powered = mce and powerlaunch is seperate Jan 15 17:18:04 i think Jan 15 17:18:15 Stupid moto Jan 15 17:18:23 Android was their real chance Jan 15 17:18:30 johnx: erm, give me a sec while i get a sandwich and think :) Jan 15 17:18:38 wazd, don't count them out yet. look what palm did :) Jan 15 17:18:38 * Stskeeps is not on a balanced diet today Jan 15 17:18:47 mmm...sammiches Jan 15 17:18:53 They have awesome hardware designers and totaly sick software idiots Jan 15 17:18:58 wazd: check this out: http://2009.nseries.com/competition/about.aspx Jan 15 17:19:12 wazd: it may be of interest (no programming involved too) Jan 15 17:19:25 * b-man is never on a balanced diet Jan 15 17:19:46 RST38h: oh! Thanks!) Jan 15 17:19:51 * wazd interested Jan 15 17:20:37 wazd: got the svg, thanks. checking how it renders Jan 15 17:20:54 Stskeeps, does vte9 actually compile in your sdk? I'm getting an anal error on http://pastebin.com/d2c050172 Jan 15 17:20:55 RST38h: btw do you know any host that can show svg right in the browser Jan 15 17:21:09 RST38h: dump.ru is sucks hardly Jan 15 17:21:14 wazd: you mean online svg->bmp converter? Jan 15 17:21:16 RST38h, notice the picture shows a square widget, however they want a postbox thin widget in rules Jan 15 17:21:26 Your FireFox browser will show .svg files directly afaik Jan 15 17:21:52 lcuk: it is Nokia Jan 15 17:21:56 I think he means a host that will show the image in the webpage without you having to download it to see it Jan 15 17:22:01 lcuk: (if you know what I mean) Jan 15 17:23:01 * RST38h will do new VGB-Maemo package first Jan 15 17:23:53 RST38h: No, I need some file hosting with direct file access Jan 15 17:24:30 qwerty12: i suspected not Jan 15 17:24:42 qwerty12: gdk problems so Jan 15 17:24:45 when linking to it Jan 15 17:25:10 ah, I've done a quick merge of the maemo changes from vte4 to vte9, would like to see what changes I'd have to make for it to compile Jan 15 17:25:12 whoa, that widget competition is definitely for me :) Jan 15 17:26:38 wazd: Ok, then I would suggest Google Pages Jan 15 17:27:52 johnx: i guess icon theme is a bit pressing right now, but it might drive you insane Jan 15 17:28:21 good place to start is file chooser Jan 15 17:28:50 Stskeeps, just a question of seeing what icons are missing, and finding a good dfsg compliant icon to replace them with, right? Jan 15 17:29:24 johnx: well, i think the icons are actually there Jan 15 17:29:30 they're just not picked up Jan 15 17:29:45 Shit, why are all gnome programs so large? Inkscape with dependencies takes 85MB Jan 15 17:29:51 not the right name? not in the right place? or something about the index for the theme? Jan 15 17:30:14 RST38h, compare to the size of illustrator Jan 15 17:30:35 * b-man thinks about installing the new mer rescue menu in ubuntu jaunty :) Jan 15 17:30:53 johnx: that's what i couldn't figure out :) Jan 15 17:31:07 it complains of icon size 0 for instance Jan 15 17:31:31 ok, well, I'll at least do some detective work on it then Jan 15 17:31:34 alright Jan 15 17:31:41 actually sounds fun :) Jan 15 17:31:43 .xsession-errors is a good place to start, and the background image chooser Jan 15 17:32:04 ah, also had an idea: setting up swap as part first-boot-wizard Jan 15 17:32:08 thoughts? Jan 15 17:32:29 thumbs up, scan for swap partitions or something :P Jan 15 17:32:50 johnx: But I am not even installing illustrator :) Jan 15 17:32:51 .. or make a file, hmm Jan 15 17:32:55 scan for swap partition, then offer to make a swap file of a certain size if none found and RAM <64MB? Jan 15 17:32:58 * b-man also thinks about changing the rescue menu artwork and modifing the splash screen for a ubuntu logo :) Jan 15 17:33:07 johnx: btw windoze version of inkscape is for some reason only 20+MB Jan 15 17:33:40 johnx: fair enough Jan 15 17:33:40 RST38h, it's because linux is tehsuxx0r :) Jan 15 17:33:57 nooo, it's lunix that's tehsuxx0r Jan 15 17:34:07 b-man: hopefully ubuntu wraps into mer nicely though, so we have a mer baseline and easy ability to include more ubuntu like stuff though Jan 15 17:34:07 linux's evil twin Jan 15 17:34:10 so we dont need to run two dists Jan 15 17:34:55 Looneex Jan 15 17:35:03 For real loonies! Jan 15 17:35:14 RST38h: i'd be tempted to call it that.. Jan 15 17:35:39 Sts: it improves with time, sowly Jan 15 17:35:42 sLowly Jan 15 17:35:57 Stskeeps: verry true, ubuntu and mer stuff seems to get allong verry well ;) Jan 15 17:36:19 Still I would prefer FreeBSD community (if there remained any) - grown bearded people with day jobs Jan 15 17:36:29 RST38h, are you saying inkscape for windows is a 20MB download or a 20MB install? Jan 15 17:36:44 johnx: I think it installs to something in the 20-30MB range Jan 15 17:36:57 but it is easy to check, wait Jan 15 17:37:28 Naaah, 77MB =( Jan 15 17:37:43 big thank you for that beautifully fast vgba RST38h Jan 15 17:37:54 RST38h, and the download is 33MB :) Jan 15 17:38:01 pupnik: Playing Final Fantasy Tactics again? =) Jan 15 17:38:03 that october release was a real treat Jan 15 17:38:17 johnx: weirdly, Linux download (with all deps) is smaller Jan 15 17:38:22 nah, brain-numbing rpgs Jan 15 17:38:33 pupnik: the speed surprised myself Jan 15 17:38:35 RST38h, inkscape for windows prolly includes gtk Jan 15 17:38:59 johnx: and most likely a lot of other crap, won't be surprised to find an embedded perl or python there Jan 15 17:39:11 did you release the display-writing part of the code RST38h ? Jan 15 17:39:20 whatever you did for res change / blits Jan 15 17:39:36 * wazd came up with widget Jan 15 17:39:36 RST38h, ah, didn't you do some new work on vgba for a different ARM platform recently? does getting those changes into the maemo version look difficult? Jan 15 17:39:43 * b-man decides to wipe out his old trashed ubuntu install and set up a new one - wish me luck Jan 15 17:39:53 johnx: There weren't any changes really Jan 15 17:40:09 johnx: and I also did a MIPS port, too Jan 15 17:40:15 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1117264/Beam-Scientists-left-baffled-mysterious-columns-coloured-light-appear-night-skies.html beautiful pictures of ice crystals in the air Jan 15 17:40:30 RST38h, aaah, the other ARM chip is just running it faster than our omap2420? Jan 15 17:40:33 Is there any list of current n97 widgets? Jan 15 17:40:34 b-man: did you fix the issue? ;) Jan 15 17:40:52 johnx: About the same speed I would say. It is the same core and similar clock Jan 15 17:41:14 RST38h, but you were getting 45fps and I'm only seeing 15 :P Jan 15 17:41:27 johnx: there is a trick to that Jan 15 17:41:48 johnx: what you are seeing is the screen update counter. for Maemo VGBA, multiply it by 3. Jan 15 17:41:49 sound stuff? Jan 15 17:42:04 not yet (having annoying issues with variables and qotations in bootmenu item creation) :p Jan 15 17:42:11 k Jan 15 17:42:12 I want this guys family or friends https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/5232/screenshot02.png Jan 15 17:42:16 err...ok, but it feels like about half to 2/3 speed Jan 15 17:42:17 b-man: post the tar.gz? Jan 15 17:42:18 opps wrong link lol Jan 15 17:42:22 I can actually modify Emulib a bit so that it shows the actual frame count, but there will be a few problems in other apps Jan 15 17:42:37 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257829#post257829 Jan 15 17:42:39 johnx: Correct. It is doing 45fps for you with the full speed being 60fps Jan 15 17:43:21 RST38h, aah, gotcha. guess I do need that pandora afterall :) Jan 15 17:43:23 Anyone use Synergy on there desktops to share a mouse and keyboard on more then one computer? Jan 15 17:43:29 Stskeeps: yes, i've uploaded all of the sorce from each release to http://www.trac.tspre.org/bman Jan 15 17:43:56 johnx: You can easily compute your own frame count by taking agame with the timer (F-Zero etc) and counting how many actual seconds it takes for the game timer to count 30 seconds Jan 15 17:45:11 i don't really mind whether it's realtime or not but things like metroid just feel sluggish. I mean, nothing to be done about it. it really just needs faster hardware Jan 15 17:45:37 Roll on Spring Jan 15 17:45:51 how can an n810 be an unwanted gift? madness Jan 15 17:46:25 where do you need VGBA when you have http://jsmario.com.ar/ ? :) Jan 15 17:46:26 If you've already got 10? Jan 15 17:46:28 maybe he's not a nerd? Jan 15 17:46:38 IWANTEDIPHONEANDALLIGETISTHISSHITTYNOKIA Jan 15 17:47:15 suihkulokki: have you got these for each of 2000+ GBA games? =) Jan 15 17:47:16 ?????? 0_o Jan 15 17:47:56 :P Jan 15 17:48:26 kinda skitchy on an a64 3000+ Jan 15 17:49:15 suihkulokki, mario!? It's all about doom: http://www.kongregate.com/games/mike_id/doom-1 :P Jan 15 17:49:30 javascript doom? Jan 15 17:49:36 flash Jan 15 17:49:37 how low have we fallen Jan 15 17:49:44 b-man: quick code review: MODULE=mbcache jbd ext3 Jan 15 17:49:50 b-man: MODULE="mbcache jbd ext3" Jan 15 17:50:23 * RST38h ready to mangle wazd's icon now =) Jan 15 17:50:26 hehe, ok :) Jan 15 17:50:45 echo "ITEM_NAME="Mer on $INST card, $PTN"" > $FILE Jan 15 17:51:00 -> echo "ITEM_NAME=\"Mer on $INST card, $PTN\"" > $FILE Jan 15 17:51:01 and so forth Jan 15 17:51:28 thanks Jan 15 17:53:01 any chance of getting linux on n97 someday? Jan 15 17:53:43 pupnik: ask a nokia coder very nicely at next summit.. Jan 15 17:53:51 :D Jan 15 17:54:07 pupnik, ask them with a frozen trout :) Jan 15 17:54:14 Give them vodka Jan 15 17:54:20 and beer Jan 15 17:54:25 I can at least get you a 640x360 layout now :) Jan 15 17:54:37 and cigarettes Jan 15 17:54:47 lol Jan 15 17:55:06 i feel kinda bad, since symbian's predecessor was so nice on the psions Jan 15 17:55:31 btw anybody want a slightly busted netbook for parts? Jan 15 17:55:33 * b-man starts the ubuntu jaunty bootstrap prosess Jan 15 17:55:34 wazd, http://liqbase.net/liq.20081102_235650.gary.scr.png Jan 15 17:56:01 pupnik, a couple years ago I would have jumped at it, but I stick to stuff that runs 2.6 these days... Jan 15 17:56:03 nice textures Jan 15 17:56:22 johnx: no progress on kernel for netbooks eh? Jan 15 17:56:33 better then doom http://www.nihilogic.dk/labs/wolf/ Jan 15 17:56:53 pupnik, there's some strongarm progress, but not much. 2.6 is ~80% on the zaurus 5500 and that was where it had the most support Jan 15 17:57:21 there's just too many cheap, powerful ARM machines with more modern CPUs Jan 15 17:57:56 it'd be a dream if one could drop an omap3530 board into that case Jan 15 17:58:00 how fast was the zaurus's cpu btw? Jan 15 17:58:18 pupnik, I thought the same about a beagleboard in a zaurus :) Jan 15 17:58:46 Sorry for asking stupif questions but how the hell do I change canvas size in Inkscape? Jan 15 17:59:17 b-man, the latest zauruses were a 416MHz Xscale PXA270, but our 400MHz OMAP2420 is lots faster...not to mention the zaurus only had 64MB of RAM... Jan 15 17:59:39 johnx: Memory performance + cache sizes Jan 15 18:00:06 RST38h, strangely sbc is faster on the zaurus...dunno what that means... Jan 15 18:00:27 johnx: What is sbc? The A2DP audio format? Jan 15 18:00:34 yeah Jan 15 18:01:05 johnx, I blame the blizzard! :P Jan 15 18:01:07 well, the codec would be a smallish piece of code running in a loop Jan 15 18:01:29 in other words, it is completely cacheable and only goes to memory for input data Jan 15 18:02:27 + I remember XScale having special instructions for codecs Jan 15 18:02:32 pupnik, yeah, 2.4.27 seems to be the latest I can find. so that rules out modern distros without a lot of hacking... *sigh* Jan 15 18:02:56 RST38h, yeah, iwmmxt. possibly gcc can automatically make use of it? Jan 15 18:03:22 wazd: is it possible to change that svg canvas size so that it has only slim top/bottom margins? About the same size as the actual icon would have? Jan 15 18:03:39 johnx: don't think so but codecs are often coded by hand Jan 15 18:05:33 pupnik, looks like people working on psion 5mx support bought themselves n800s :D Jan 15 18:05:52 qwerty12: no school today? :p Jan 15 18:06:05 haha Jan 15 18:06:24 b-man, yes, of course :P. I came back about 3 hours ago (~6:00 PM here) Jan 15 18:06:55 wazd: oh one more: make the canvas square (sorry but I can't make it in Inkscape for some reason ;() Jan 15 18:06:58 oh, duh Jan 15 18:07:19 * b-man calls himself an idot Jan 15 18:08:31 qwerty12: school was canceld for me because it was too cold here :p Jan 15 18:08:52 b-man, damn, some people have all the luck... :P Jan 15 18:09:00 hehe Jan 15 18:10:04 but it's not fun dealing with sub-zero weather eather :p Jan 15 18:11:08 RST38h: sure Jan 15 18:11:24 pupnik, wait, is that a netbook pro? as in, an xscale? Jan 15 18:11:27 RST38h: I'll enter widget contest with my uni-search idea :) Jan 15 18:11:46 wazd: Notice that Google may be already there and also the Nokia Search guys Jan 15 18:12:05 johnx: no, regular netbook Jan 15 18:12:08 * RST38h failed resizing the canvas: even doing it in the text editor does not work Jan 15 18:12:12 with the unreadable 640x480 screen :/ Jan 15 18:12:23 i did have linux running on it Jan 15 18:13:37 wazd: also the svg includes some MIMEd jpeg data - not sure what it is bu deleting it seems to work Jan 15 18:14:06 pupnik, I guess I'll wait to see how ARM based "psion doesn't want them to be called netbooks" turn out :) Jan 15 18:14:53 * RST38h still thinks we should call them "comlogs" Jan 15 18:15:08 At least the ones that can't be called "cheap laptops" Jan 15 18:15:48 RST38h: ah, maybe that's because I had a jpg in there, do draw from :) Jan 15 18:15:53 RST38h, someone came up with MultiMedia Internet Thingy (MMIT or maybe just MIT) and it's starting to grow on me Jan 15 18:16:11 wazd, they only want a picture Jan 15 18:16:12 i have to sell an acer aspire one with 9-cell batt, if there are any takers in germany/europe Jan 15 18:16:13 johnx: abbreviations are bad. Jan 15 18:16:22 but there is always padlet :) Jan 15 18:17:06 network internet tablet Jan 15 18:17:31 won't matter anyways in 3-4 years. We'll have phones and laptops again with all this PDA/NIT/MID/UMPC stuff behind us Jan 15 18:18:23 johnx: something to play with while standing in line after free soup =) Jan 15 18:18:32 it's handy having the tablet not be my phone so it doesn't matter if I run the battery down to 0 Jan 15 18:19:02 ~lart current battery tech Jan 15 18:19:24 infobot left? Jan 15 18:20:04 wanna get some ultracapacitor tech on Jan 15 18:20:18 where's our portable 20year radio-isotope generators? Jan 15 18:20:39 in space Jan 15 18:20:49 and russian lighthouses Jan 15 18:20:52 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, current battery tech ! Jan 15 18:20:56 really? cool Jan 15 18:21:02 hitachi has a plug-n-play container-sized nuclear power plant Jan 15 18:21:05 no maintenance Jan 15 18:21:20 what sized container? Jan 15 18:21:36 pupnik, pocketable? Jan 15 18:23:52 ok, my applet now featuring "coco de mer" request :D Jan 15 18:23:53 ok, I have got vgb icons into required size! Jan 15 18:24:07 I would have some worries in putting a nuclear power plant in the pocket of my pants... Jan 15 18:24:33 zenvoid: your kids will have superpowers Jan 15 18:24:36 My balls! Jan 15 18:24:37 zenvoid, don't be worried, we know contact with radiation makes things grow Jan 15 18:24:39 zenvoid, have you seen a Li-ion battery catch on fire? Jan 15 18:24:40 hahaha Jan 15 18:25:05 just because you might end up with 3 heads and uniballs is secondary Jan 15 18:25:17 wazd: the original one looks better though =( Jan 15 18:25:29 lcuk, there were some great radioactivity-for-your-health hoaxes when it was first discovered, before that whole "it causes cancer" thing Jan 15 18:25:32 johnx, they dont catch fire, they vent with plasma Jan 15 18:25:43 johnx: ugh, I think I will carry my n810 in the pocket in a backpack :) Jan 15 18:25:59 make sure you dont leave mouldy fruit in there with it Jan 15 18:26:05 ahaha Jan 15 18:26:07 RST38h: what? icon?) Jan 15 18:26:19 greatest thread of all time Jan 15 18:26:36 the BP4L battery is pretty good with number of charge cycles Jan 15 18:26:51 seems a bit weaker after a year, but still strong Jan 15 18:26:59 pupnik, mine's starting to wear down after almost 2 Jan 15 18:27:39 i'm beginning to suspect that getting a quality battery (original nokia) is the right choice Jan 15 18:29:17 wazd: Yep. When scaling down, the large icon gets antialiased to invisibility Jan 15 18:29:20 johnx; do you think it's safe to install first-boot-wizard in ubuntu jaunty? Jan 15 18:29:26 johnx, stop watching HD porn movies on it then Jan 15 18:29:36 wazd: I will try scaling down the svg instead Jan 15 18:29:54 b-man, you want first boot wizard and auto-startx? planning to not use gdm? Jan 15 18:30:33 b-man, I think it should work, but it's pretty easy to just do it manually too. It's mostly for new users Jan 15 18:30:34 no :) Jan 15 18:30:48 ok Jan 15 18:30:52 first-boot-wizard is run from auto-startx Jan 15 18:30:57 wazd: actually, here is a better idea: Jan 15 18:31:03 you can install it with gdm but you'll never see it :) Jan 15 18:31:14 heh Jan 15 18:31:15 whos played with QT on this platform? hows it do performance wise, is it still as sluggish as gtk (due to the x11 methods) or does it sidetrack all that and work quickly? Jan 15 18:31:16 any bets on whether n9x0 will have some kind of video-out? Jan 15 18:31:40 pupnik, I'm betting it will through a "Nokia A/V connector" Jan 15 18:31:54 well we have a nokia a/v connector now Jan 15 18:31:57 wazd: Make you canvas exactly 88x88 pixels and place icon there exactly as it should be seen in the actual icon rectangle (i.e. with a bit of space at the top bottom) Jan 15 18:31:58 for all the good it does ;) Jan 15 18:32:03 pupnik: I'm not holding my breath Jan 15 18:32:11 wazd: and let me check out the result =) Jan 15 18:32:12 what do you mean lcuk Jan 15 18:32:25 jaffa, its a LOT more likely if its using the default framebuffer on the omap and is just wired naturally Jan 15 18:32:26 lcuk, but this time they just need to run some wire and copy the driver from pandora :) Jan 15 18:32:31 lcuk: true Jan 15 18:32:45 I think somebody from Nokia already promised video out on N9x0, no? Jan 15 18:32:52 i would imagine its easier to implement than to leave off to be honest Jan 15 18:32:56 Also, both 5800 and N97 have video outs Jan 15 18:33:05 pupnik: "Nokia A/V connector" is how the manual refers to the headphone/mic port Jan 15 18:33:08 true Jan 15 18:33:17 lcuk, easier to wire it to the A/V connector than to ground out those pins? :) Jan 15 18:33:38 you probably do need a few extra components when wiring it out Jan 15 18:33:45 RST38h, but other omap2 phones have video out, IIRC. it's just our LCD controller situation ... Jan 15 18:34:03 johnx, im betting the reference boards all have it and it will be more complex to alter the board and ensure it doesnt get strange anomalies than just to use it as is Jan 15 18:34:15 would be pretty slick to be able to watch vids on tvs - (visiting friends etc) Jan 15 18:35:00 The existing Nokia devices, is it just composite? Jan 15 18:35:10 johnx: it is also Nokia's idea of product differentiation Jan 15 18:35:35 johnx, our LCD controller is just carry over from the 770 design Jan 15 18:35:40 johnx: if Nokia marketing decides that it is "not a visual media device" you do not get the video out Jan 15 18:35:46 johnx: example: E71 Jan 15 18:36:06 Video out fits with the summit mutterings about 3wGB storage and a real focus on multimedia, to live up to the nseries moniker Jan 15 18:36:10 lcuk, err, I think it's different. and the omap2 can't drive 800x480 directly anyways, right? Jan 15 18:36:17 yeah exactly Jan 15 18:36:27 but its the same principle as the 770 used Jan 15 18:36:34 external framebuffer Jan 15 18:36:39 ah, yes, just a worse implementation Jan 15 18:36:41 heh Jan 15 18:36:48 Jaffa: I hope so... Jan 15 18:36:49 *cough*d-pad*cough* Jan 15 18:37:00 the dpad is nice where i use it Jan 15 18:37:07 johnx: how dare you to tell nokia what to include! Jan 15 18:37:09 johnx: It's got a d-pad the same as an N810, I bet Jan 15 18:37:28 Jaffa, nah, the trend has been for them to get worse Jan 15 18:37:40 * RST38h suspects that we will get a buttonless iphone-like brick =) Jan 15 18:37:42 heh if it has im betting roope curses it every day :D Jan 15 18:37:57 that would be hilarious Jan 15 18:38:01 RST38h, we have one of those now with 810 :) it just has hidden stuff Jan 15 18:38:06 lcuk: he's already said he considers the N810's as just cursor keys Jan 15 18:38:14 lcuk: no I mean no hidden stuff! Jan 15 18:38:37 I also bet it'll have a keyboard - hopefully better than the N810s Jan 15 18:38:42 lcuk, yeah you gotta watch out for that when drinking in certain bars, 'cause ... wait? ah right the n810. Jan 15 18:38:53 RST38h, the dream of an ibrick is bad, it was why i didnt get one - fully touch interfaces really excell on large format devices Jan 15 18:39:06 but i will not give up screen space for a keyboard ever again Jan 15 18:39:12 me neither Jan 15 18:39:24 hehe Jan 15 18:39:39 they also suck for 'no look' use, but that's not as important for a tablet I guess as a dedicated mp3 player or phone Jan 15 18:39:42 love reading those PDFs? ;) Jan 15 18:39:45 ok, how do we market and sell a slide on bt keyboard Jan 15 18:40:04 lcuk: with boobs. Jan 15 18:40:08 lcuk, talk to the guys who made a slide-on d-pad and buttons for the iphone Jan 15 18:40:09 Connection on BT keyboards isn't as convenient Jan 15 18:40:14 lcuk: you can market ANYTHING with boobs Jan 15 18:40:32 no, the device will have a nipple (like the pre) :D Jan 15 18:40:42 perfect, perfect... Jan 15 18:40:49 search google images for "coco de mer" Jan 15 18:41:01 RST38h, http://tinyurl.com/6tg53d Jan 15 18:42:13 johnx, did you have that stored in favorites? you found it awful quickly Jan 15 18:42:20 either that, or is it your homepage/ Jan 15 18:42:25 lcuk, errr...uhm...no? Jan 15 18:42:36 * RST38h knew "coco" was going to mean something obscene Jan 15 18:43:03 :D i got stretching and scaling of my widgets working last night :$ Jan 15 18:43:37 :O and other stuff id forgotten about Jan 15 18:43:39 johnx: stop watching that yaoi anime NOW. Jan 15 18:43:48 =) Jan 15 18:43:54 RST38h, yaoi? what's that? Jan 15 18:44:07 RST38h, yeah, I wonder why kellogs coco pops cereal is brown... Jan 15 18:44:23 johnx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi Jan 15 18:44:31 qwerty: it is cocoa, afaik :) Jan 15 18:44:51 I hope so *grin* Jan 15 18:45:11 johnx: Make sure you check "demographics" part, it is the most amusing Jan 15 18:45:44 RST38h, heh. was playing dumb, but the funny thing is: I only ever heard about it from US fangirls. never once here. Jan 15 18:46:24 johnx: I wouldn't know if I didn't read an article on the history of anime Jan 15 18:47:17 RST38h, though I guess here it hides under the general term Dojin and people (surprise, surprise) aren't really as forthcoming about babbling all about it to strangers as american fan[boys|girls] Jan 15 18:47:29 * RST38h only seen US anime fans once when his path crossed some anime convention in Baltimore Jan 15 18:48:14 in spanish "coco" is a coconut, maybe it is somewhat related to the results in google image search :) Jan 15 18:48:39 * b-man has a frend who is obsessed in naruto ond chowder :p Jan 15 18:48:53 in Japan coco is a chain of restaurants serving curry :) Jan 15 18:50:30 RST38h: can you receive a file?) Jan 15 18:50:39 wazd: does not seem to work :( simply email to luarvique@gmail.com Jan 15 18:51:54 RST38h: sent Jan 15 18:52:20 thanks Jan 15 18:52:29 They have kind of moderation at this contest I think Jan 15 18:52:56 Since my widget still isn't there :) Jan 15 18:53:42 oh yes, much better Jan 15 18:54:55 RST38h: the problem is in borders thickness, it's not resizing with whole image Jan 15 18:57:15 wazd: just bump it up, it is ok Jan 15 18:57:49 wazd: Can you make the LCD-to-buttons and buttons-to-bottom distances a bit less so that the whole image looks shorter and a bit thicker? Jan 15 18:58:10 wazd: It may violate real proportions a little bit but will allow me to make bigger icons :) Jan 15 18:58:47 the ones rendered from 88x88 svg are pretty decent btw but the above trick will help making them more detailed Jan 15 18:59:07 RST38h: ok Jan 15 19:06:23 RST38h: if you're not a crazy gameboy geek you'll not even notice) Jan 15 19:08:44 wazd: lots of people notice this stuff as "there is something wrong but can't pinpoint what" Jan 15 19:09:05 RST38h, and those people get WONTFIXed? Jan 15 19:09:11 Don't think it matters for icons though :) Jan 15 19:09:28 johnx: No, if you want to stall those, you do it with NEEDINFO Jan 15 19:09:33 RST38h: gone to your e-mail Jan 15 19:09:50 johnx: But I am sure timeless will know and tell you all about this :) Jan 15 19:10:01 wazd: got it Jan 15 19:10:03 RST38h, fixed in fremantle :) heh...some of the maemo bugs need "fixed in mer" Jan 15 19:10:43 johnx: I already proposed the FUCKOFF resolution Jan 15 19:11:06 andre___, we want a FIXEDINMERMOFO resolution :p Jan 15 19:11:22 johnx: got a more pressing issue though: damn Modest continues to throw password set dialogs at me Jan 15 19:11:35 looks like a bug =( Jan 15 19:11:41 RST38h, YOUNEEDTOUSEIMAP Jan 15 19:11:50 johnx: IDOIDO Jan 15 19:12:03 johnx: but one of my accounts is POP3 Jan 15 19:12:22 RST38h, you gave in?! huh...in that case I would say check to make sure the password is actually getting stored Jan 15 19:13:08 though, I've actually been seeing similar behavior in spicebird (and formerly in thunderbird) on the desktop Jan 15 19:13:58 also, how regular is it? Jan 15 19:14:05 johnx: well, gmail uses imap, that is why Jan 15 19:14:20 johnx: pretty regular, daily, seems to be dependent on wifi connection quality Jan 15 19:15:05 aaaah, odd. here's the weirdest part: on the desktop I get this asked for the password to my gmail imap account ... but it works flawlessly on the tablet no matter what Jan 15 19:15:22 same account Jan 15 19:15:52 I wonder what the server could be returning to make modest think the password is wrong Jan 15 19:16:35 maybe complaining about some malformed request and modest just saying "oh, must be the password." Jan 15 19:16:51 qwerty12_N800, you can have a keyword if you want to :) Jan 15 19:17:01 wazd: thanks, it is perfect! Jan 15 19:17:33 johnx: the weird part is that once it starts happening ir continues until I reenter the password Jan 15 19:17:34 andre___, :) Jan 15 19:17:49 johnx: although the entered password is correct and I am reentering the same thing Jan 15 19:17:56 qwerty12_N800, well, dunno. if you think it's helpful, just say :) Jan 15 19:18:14 RST38h, can you verify that when it asks you for the password the one it has stored is correct? Jan 15 19:19:10 moo Jan 15 19:19:17 * b-man starts installing base packages in ubuntu jaunty - i hope that keyboard problem does not come up again... (using better install prosess than before) Jan 15 19:19:30 johnx: it is asterisked, so unless there is a way to reveal it in gtk... Jan 15 19:19:36 andre___, thank you, but I was joking but maybe Stskeeps and/or johnx would like that :) Jan 15 19:19:46 lol Jan 15 19:19:51 RST38h, well it has to be *stored* somewhere on your tablet ... Jan 15 19:20:02 r2d2rogers: apt-get moo :) Jan 15 19:20:11 I vote for a WILLBEFIXEDBYQWERTY12SOBUGHIM Jan 15 19:20:31 lol Jan 15 19:20:32 what's news? Jan 15 19:20:46 johnx: I believe modest passwords are stored in gconf... Jan 15 19:21:25 grmpf. reconnects... Jan 15 19:21:31 qwerty12_N800, well, dunno. if you think a keyword might be helpful, just say :) Jan 15 19:21:46 johnx: Yes, they're in /apps/modest/server_accounts/(account name) Jan 15 19:22:17 RST38h, there's your answer. check there after it complains Jan 15 19:22:25 thanks TrueJournals :) Jan 15 19:22:31 No problem Jan 15 19:23:28 TrueJournals,johnx: thanks! Jan 15 19:24:18 packaging VGB with the new icons Jan 15 19:24:48 johnx, i don't like that resolution :p Jan 15 19:25:16 qwerty12_N800, that's because you're not a team player :D Jan 15 19:25:41 and isn't it still your turn to be the channe's bot? :P Jan 15 19:26:01 ~fix-bugs Jan 15 19:26:08 being in a team forces me to meet deadlines :D Jan 15 19:26:28 johnx, I do not understand "fix-bugs". Jan 15 19:27:09 ah, well. was worth a try Jan 15 19:27:19 :p Jan 15 19:30:46 andre__: re own keyword, maybe when we're more structured :) Jan 15 19:31:10 ok Jan 15 19:31:11 mp Jan 15 19:31:18 * qwertybot wishes http://outpo.st/irc/ was updated and hopes he gets the swearing prize Jan 15 19:33:18 heh...I just like that qwerty12 *and* qwerty12_N800 are on the list of most active users O_o Jan 15 19:34:09 "Nobody beat anyone up. Everybody was friendly." Jan 15 19:34:12 We should fix that... Jan 15 19:34:18 * TrueJournals punches TrueJournals Jan 15 19:34:29 * qwertybot beats up TrueJournals Jan 15 19:34:34 ~fishslap TrueJournals Jan 15 19:34:36 Happy now? Jan 15 19:34:40 * TrueJournals unplugs qwertybot Jan 15 19:34:43 * RST38h finds it mildly reassuring that there is a miniature ssh server hidden somewhere in the flat, available 24 hours a day Jan 15 19:34:52 "\@/ gah why is there no poweroff for this device" Jan 15 19:35:02 Nooo, I've left the matrix! Jan 15 19:35:08 loll Jan 15 19:35:20 Secret undeground lair of sorts Jan 15 19:35:22 I hate you Cypher/TrueJournals :p Jan 15 19:35:38 MUHAHA Jan 15 19:36:31 hiya tj Jan 15 19:36:50 Someone should bribe mgedmin for the logs from povbot :) Jan 15 19:37:01 theres other logs :) Jan 15 19:37:17 ive got 55mb since 15jan Jan 15 19:37:19 08 Jan 15 19:37:30 mgedmin's ones are the best :P Jan 15 19:37:38 of course they are Jan 15 19:37:48 mgedmin has a hot bot Jan 15 19:38:07 Stskeeps, you're right. icons are a mystery Jan 15 19:38:12 time to break out strace Jan 15 19:38:20 povbot, I'll give you vodka for the logs. Jan 15 19:38:21 qwerty12_N800: Error: "I'll" is not a valid command. Jan 15 19:38:26 Fuck you Jan 15 19:38:27 povbot, 1+2? Jan 15 19:38:28 Stskeeps: Error: "1+2?" is not a valid command. Jan 15 19:38:31 povbot, 1+2 Jan 15 19:38:31 Stskeeps: Error: "1+2" is not a valid command. Jan 15 19:38:33 pft. Jan 15 19:38:33 .P Jan 15 19:38:46 johnx: ltrace maybe too and dbg packages Jan 15 19:38:50 povbot, help Jan 15 19:38:51 TrueJournals: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. Jan 15 19:38:53 RST38h: what's better, to draw high detailed gameboy or to start to draw other consoles? Jan 15 19:39:12 Hmm... that really didn't help :-\ Jan 15 19:39:14 Stskeeps, I was just going to watch for files not being found Jan 15 19:39:19 johnx: ah, true Jan 15 19:41:12 wazd: I think it is better to start with other consoles Jan 15 19:41:33 wazd: even at 88x88 pixels, it is difficult to see details Jan 15 19:42:17 RST38h: ok Jan 15 19:42:39 wazd: there is a couple of things that can improve situation (using more contrast shades of gray, framing the whole GB in a 1-pixel frame of contrast color, etc) but they are all minor Jan 15 19:43:02 RST38h, http://image.versiontracker.com/client_icons/676E7562-4150504C-icon-32x32-8bit.gif this is 32*32 and seems to have details Jan 15 19:43:29 why are you having trouble with yours cos isnt it bigger Jan 15 19:43:47 lcuk: ! it is actually a cool idea =) Jan 15 19:44:08 wazd: we can rotate it ~45o clockwise and fill the whole rectangle! =) Jan 15 19:44:26 it will probably look bad at 26x26 resolution though Jan 15 19:51:08 RST38h: well, I think it's pretty recognizable now) Jan 15 19:51:48 RST38h: don't know how it looks on symbian screen, but on my laptop it's looking good :) Jan 15 19:52:13 wazd: it is recognizable all right, just thinking that more details will not show up at these resolutions Jan 15 19:52:19 i/win 58 Jan 15 19:52:21 bah Jan 15 19:52:35 * RST38h did not try symbian yet, but there is a .deb for interested people Jan 15 19:52:49 maemo deb that is Jan 15 19:53:11 johnx: saw zenvoid posted his theme earlier btw? Jan 15 19:53:26 ah! he released it? Jan 15 19:54:17 johnx: http://zenvoid.org/tmp/ Jan 15 19:54:46 zenvoid: btw you have a .dsc but not tar.gz for the theme :) Jan 15 19:55:06 RST38h: now it's time for GBA I guess? Jan 15 19:55:18 hmmm...with a solid title bar I wonder if I can get away with fewer changes to make it work at 640x480 Jan 15 19:55:39 BTW, maemopad plays nice on the zaurus for the most part :D Jan 15 19:56:26 johnx: maemopad is unthemed at my mer Jan 15 19:56:29 i dunno why Jan 15 19:56:32 wazd: yea, it would be a logical next step Jan 15 19:56:36 RST38h: what's better, clamshell or brick?) Jan 15 19:56:50 Stskeeps, what happens if you launch from roxterm? Jan 15 19:57:07 johnx: well since HIM doesn't work for me in roxterm.. Jan 15 19:57:16 no usb keyboard? Jan 15 19:57:19 wazd: the original brick of course! clamshell is for wussies Jan 15 19:57:23 johnx: nop Jan 15 19:57:34 (i know, im an atypical maemo hacker..) Jan 15 19:57:39 i dont even think i own a usb keyboard anymore Jan 15 19:57:41 RST38h: thought so too :) Jan 15 19:58:06 wazd: I do think rotating it 30-45o will help pushing in more detail Jan 15 19:58:21 does anyone else get double key entry when using vnc on the n810 Jan 15 19:58:45 RST38h: at smaller resolutions that angle will ruin whole image) Jan 15 19:59:03 RST38h: it will look like a puddle of pixels) Jan 15 19:59:34 it will =( Jan 15 19:59:43 unless you make it exactly 45o of course Jan 15 19:59:43 hi Shadow_M Jan 15 19:59:48 Stskeeps, I'll try in a sec. launched from roxterm on the zaurus it's themed, but has a couple glitches. might be resolution or might be sapwood :/ Jan 15 19:59:55 hello b-man Jan 15 20:02:40 RST38h: well, since it's vector then we can play with angles all day long :) Jan 15 20:02:49 b-man, have you had expperience with samba Jan 15 20:03:08 no, unfortunately :( Jan 15 20:04:04 wazd: naah, of course it is a vector, but once it is rendered to a bitmap, only 3 angles make sense - 0o, 45o, and 90o Jan 15 20:04:21 The rest will look like shit (you are right) Jan 15 20:04:35 if I'm understanding this sapwood is what's actually going out the FS and loading icons, right? Jan 15 20:05:17 * b-man is allmost 2/3 done with re-installing ubuntu jaunty on his N800 Jan 15 20:06:09 fast, compared to last time :) Jan 15 20:06:42 * Stskeeps makes another cup of coffee Jan 15 20:07:08 ah yes, I have coffee right next tom me... Jan 15 20:07:09 * b-man makes some tea Jan 15 20:07:26 hmm, it has been awfully long time since I slept but I do have today off...soooo Jan 15 20:08:27 i naturaly can't stay up past 2:00 am or i fall asleep :p Jan 15 20:09:14 (and coffie makes me sleepy) Jan 15 20:09:58 ahaha...my first cup of coffee used to make me sleepy, then my second cup woke me up Jan 15 20:10:04 but I fixed that: got a bigger cup Jan 15 20:10:11 anyone read the article that says more than 3 cups of coffe a day makes you paranoid and dalusional Jan 15 20:10:19 dilusional Jan 15 20:10:19 johnx: it is past 3am where you are [state-of-factly] Jan 15 20:10:26 RST38h, 5AM Jan 15 20:10:32 holyshit Jan 15 20:10:36 Shadow_M: which explains a lot of people on iTT and on the internet Jan 15 20:10:36 why? Jan 15 20:10:39 0_o Jan 15 20:10:45 RST38h: Mer is so much fun. Jan 15 20:10:46 I work nights :) Jan 15 20:10:53 aw, more sane reason Jan 15 20:10:57 I'm on London time :) Jan 15 20:10:58 johnx: around this time, I start seeing wireframes everywhere Jan 15 20:11:03 johnx, get some sleep!! Jan 15 20:11:12 RST38h, those aren't real? ah...fuck Jan 15 20:11:20 johnx: Who knows? =) Jan 15 20:11:22 johnx, brapp, london (time) is da shit :p Jan 15 20:11:41 b-man, eh. I'll have plenty of time to sleep when I'm dead Jan 15 20:11:53 lol x10000 Jan 15 20:12:00 I'll stay up long enough to see my wife off to work :) Jan 15 20:12:00 XD Jan 15 20:12:12 hehe Jan 15 20:12:44 * RST38h remembers he has to work too Jan 15 20:12:59 * b-man doesn't work Jan 15 20:13:11 i was at work today even though i wasn't legally able to, hmm :P Jan 15 20:13:12 (in highschool) Jan 15 20:13:17 b-man: get a paperroute Jan 15 20:13:18 :P Jan 15 20:13:20 grrrr....maemopad, tell me *which* icon has 0 size Jan 15 20:13:26 Hooray highschool! Jan 15 20:13:37 No school today here due to FREEZING COLD Jan 15 20:13:37 Hey, does anybody know a way to control N810s LEDs? Jan 15 20:14:00 TrueJournals, Damn! that's you and b-man now :( Jan 15 20:14:04 Truejournals: same reason here!!!!! Jan 15 20:14:20 do you live in ohio? :) Jan 15 20:14:23 !insult London for not having seriously shit weather Jan 15 20:14:24 totix: yes. Jan 15 20:14:27 totix800: there's probably an example of it in powerlaunch Jan 15 20:14:30 ok i think i am havint an issue with wizard mount on my windows machine the file permissions are fine but on her in emelfm2 i cant open a dir because it says no permission Jan 15 20:14:35 totix: there is documentation Jan 15 20:14:37 b-man: No, I live in a suburb of Chicago Jan 15 20:14:57 ah 245 miles from ware i live Jan 15 20:15:04 totix800, there's dbus signals that you can send to mce - search itt Jan 15 20:15:05 What is "freezing cold" in Chicago? Jan 15 20:15:27 RST38h: -2 degrees outside, windchill to -25 (F, of course) Jan 15 20:15:48 -12 for a low for us Jan 15 20:15:49 TrueJournals, I do not envy you Jan 15 20:15:56 Er, It's -6 currently actually Jan 15 20:16:09 0_o Jan 15 20:16:14 thx to all, now I got some things to look after Jan 15 20:16:18 Yeah, it's pretty cold Jan 15 20:16:20 totix800, or if you just wanna mess around: http://sse2.net/ledcolor.py Jan 15 20:16:39 anyone use wizard mounter here Jan 15 20:16:44 qwerty12_N800: hah, i thought led_control.py Jan 15 20:16:48 no wonder i couldn't find it Jan 15 20:17:03 :p Jan 15 20:17:34 i'm more annoyed about s/colour/color/ ;p Jan 15 20:18:05 Pfft... you crazy british people Jan 15 20:18:12 lol Jan 15 20:18:31 no one uses wizard mounter? Jan 15 20:18:43 Not I :-\ Jan 15 20:18:45 qwerty12_N800, why don't you just speak proper English? Jan 15 20:19:10 * johnx ducks Jan 15 20:19:16 johnx, I do already, by speaking British English :P Jan 15 20:19:21 TrueJournals, how do you mount samba shares Jan 15 20:19:28 I don't :-P Jan 15 20:19:30 qwerty12_N800, i dunno. US English is more popular... Jan 15 20:19:37 hmm Jan 15 20:19:37 johnx, lies! Jan 15 20:19:39 qwerty12_N800, but for a real kick, try Japanese English :D Jan 15 20:19:57 Hehe, sounds scary :D Jan 15 20:20:00 no one here uses samba shares come on people Jan 15 20:20:20 Shadow_M, I use them through the file manager sometimes, but not recently Jan 15 20:20:27 Shadow_M: Why, are you having trouble with it? Jan 15 20:20:28 * qwerty12_N800 's grammar is dodgy though... Jan 15 20:20:56 johnx: it is really "rear kick" Jan 15 20:21:04 yeah the permissions are comming out write but when accessed on a windows client they are Jan 15 20:21:49 RST38h, just pronounce ri and li at the same time and you'll get the idea Jan 15 20:21:57 like the samba user i put in for wizard mounter has full rights but wizard mounter isnt giving them Jan 15 20:22:13 johnx: I can't even pronounce "the" properly and you ask for such advanced crap! Jan 15 20:22:35 RST38h, heh...I can't get it right either :D Jan 15 20:22:47 Shadow_M: Have you tried using the share with the same user on a different computer? Jan 15 20:23:07 yup seems to work fine TrueJournals Jan 15 20:23:51 Hmmmm.. that does seem strage.. I'm installing wizard-mounter right now to see if I get the same Jan 15 20:26:06 alright whats esp weird is that in emelfm2 a dir says no permission but the share mounted on a pc can enter the folder and modify it Jan 15 20:26:37 johnx: i was scared when my other computers appeared in mer file chooser :) Jan 15 20:26:46 Shadow_M, ok, check the actualy permissions of the dir before you mount the share Jan 15 20:27:06 Stskeeps, ah, guess we have some libsmb stuff, huh? Jan 15 20:27:45 johnx: yup Jan 15 20:27:46 note: we're missing a whole bunch of parts of the "transparent cursor" theme, so transparent cursors aren't visible Jan 15 20:27:54 yeah.. Jan 15 20:28:11 also we arent really supposed to remove cursor in start-hildon actually Jan 15 20:28:26 aaah, I didn't even notice Jan 15 20:28:36 btw, meiz claimed we get movable windows but OK positioned, if we simply remove the use_dialog_mode free line Jan 15 20:28:42 else i have a patch from Matan for it Jan 15 20:29:13 good deal Jan 15 20:29:17 Stskeeps: did i go too far? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257883#post257883 Jan 15 20:29:24 is there a way to have best of both - if the xevents come via mouse to display and update a cursor, otherwise hide it and use it normally Jan 15 20:29:28 I wonder what Nokia is holding back in terms of matchbox patches Jan 15 20:29:50 Meiz_n810: yes, remove imager and installer link Jan 15 20:29:58 ok Jan 15 20:30:03 (if it's ok) Jan 15 20:30:16 johnx, i did that Jan 15 20:30:26 Meiz_n810: if anyone wants to participate they should show up here :P Jan 15 20:30:44 okay :) Jan 15 20:30:52 Meiz_n810: what the heck is the power cable icon btw? Jan 15 20:30:58 Meiz_n810, but as for the screenshots, they look great :) Jan 15 20:31:27 johnx: thanks Jan 15 20:31:35 Stskeeps: gnome-power-manager Jan 15 20:31:40 ah Jan 15 20:31:47 does it get the battery right? Jan 15 20:31:52 not really working Jan 15 20:31:55 k Jan 15 20:31:57 ah, yeah Jan 15 20:32:05 probably tied to ACPI to a certain extent Jan 15 20:32:10 Shadow_M: OK, I mounted a share, and was able to create a file in the share, but now I can't read or edit it. Is that what you're observing? Jan 15 20:32:15 Meiz_n810, false advertising! :P Jan 15 20:32:33 Meiz_n810: and edit to note that you are using icons from maemo Jan 15 20:32:40 ok Jan 15 20:32:49 * Jaffa boggles at the level of unknowledge about the RX-51 on maemo-developers Jan 15 20:32:50 just so people don't get false expectations :) Jan 15 20:32:59 Jaffa: people were probably too drunk at summit Jan 15 20:33:16 Jaffa, among Nokian's or outsiders? Jan 15 20:33:55 TrueJournals yeah basically Jan 15 20:34:08 johnx: non-Nokians Jan 15 20:34:16 Stskeeps: done :) Jan 15 20:34:18 Meiz_n810: ta Jan 15 20:34:24 Stskeeps: oops, sorry I was away, installing linux in the ps3 (well... playing gta4 in fact, but "installing linux" sounds much better excuse ;-) ) Jan 15 20:34:26 Meiz_n810: besides that, looks great :) Jan 15 20:34:30 Shadow_M: Well, at the very least, we're observing the same thing... Jan 15 20:34:32 zenvoid: "compiling" Jan 15 20:34:34 Jaffa, I guess keeping up with things is just too tough for some people ... Jan 15 20:35:04 Stskeeps: you are right, I forgot to upload the tar.gz Jan 15 20:35:08 yeah but how do you fix that lol TrueJournals Jan 15 20:35:16 zenvoid: hehe :) Jan 15 20:35:20 johnx, not everyone does Jan 15 20:35:29 johnx: mer tshirt.. logo, plus the motto "We should stop seeing the tablets as strictly under-powered embedded systems, and see them for what they really are: powerful, power-efficient, economical handheld computers." ;) Jan 15 20:35:33 ok, its not -users its -dev Jan 15 20:35:38 it kinda seems like it doesnt like to use the users real permissions TrueJournals Jan 15 20:35:38 *rolleyes* Jan 15 20:35:56 Stskeeps, who is that from again? Jan 15 20:36:24 You'd've thought the people who actually post to -dev would know about what was announced at the summit Jan 15 20:36:29 johnx: i'm not sure if it was either my original statement, then edited by rst38h, or by GA, or in which order.. Jan 15 20:36:32 hmm, omegamoon seems to have fennec on his zaurus... http://www.omegamoon.com/blog/ Jan 15 20:36:32 i should google my logs Jan 15 20:36:42 Meiz_n810: who'd want fennec? :P Jan 15 20:36:48 Shadow_M: Excellent question... Jan 15 20:36:48 :) Jan 15 20:36:54 (apologies to any fennec developers in the room) Jan 15 20:37:09 Stskeeps: it might become a good browser for mobile devices Jan 15 20:37:14 Meiz_n810, gah, that has to take forever to load O_o Jan 15 20:37:22 k Jan 15 20:37:25 Shadow_M: I think wizard-mounter needs to be modified to pass uid and gid to mount as options, so that files get created for the correct user Jan 15 20:37:37 hmm Jan 15 20:37:40 even midori in matchbox takes a while to load on the zaurus Jan 15 20:38:14 Anyone have a dev environment up and running to compile if I modify wizard-mounter? :P Jan 15 20:38:34 Meiz_n810: The theme-including mer screenshots on ITT look fab Jan 15 20:38:52 thanks :) Jan 15 20:40:06 jaffa its really starting to resemble a desktop :) Jan 15 20:40:19 Meiz_n810: you should be able to use the load applet screenshot feature now btw Jan 15 20:40:30 yep Jan 15 20:40:32 it'll put itself in /home/whatever/MyDocs/.images Jan 15 20:41:26 wtf, didn't know evernote did IMAP access to notes Jan 15 20:41:49 that's innovative Jan 15 20:42:21 netbook porn: http://i.gizmodo.com/5131637/sony-vaio-p-review Jan 15 20:42:23 something like that combined with xournal could be a killer app Jan 15 20:42:50 RST38h: assuming one wanted a netbook ;-) Jan 15 20:42:54 And had oodles of cash Jan 15 20:43:10 RST38h, I should head down to the store today and get my paws on one for a bit. :) Jan 15 20:43:53 Jaffa: the review makes it pretty clear you DO NOT want a netbook Jan 15 20:44:20 Jaffa: from the sound of it, the video performance is actually worse than in the current N810 Jan 15 20:44:47 johnx: I am not even sure how to classify this particular perversion =) Jan 15 20:44:52 RST38h, how the hell did they manage that? Jan 15 20:45:01 qwerty: Vista. Jan 15 20:45:04 RST38h, a cheap laptop that forgot to be cheap? Jan 15 20:45:09 :) hearing about poor video performance makes at least one person smile :) Jan 15 20:45:13 qwerty: And of course more pixels Jan 15 20:45:25 the big thing that would help ARM machines running Linux is some more freaking RAM Jan 15 20:45:26 RST38h, point taken re vista. :) Jan 15 20:45:29 Omegamoon: do you have an interest in the Maemo platform on Zaurus as well, btw? Jan 15 20:45:33 johnx: It's a Sony. It's shiny. Jan 15 20:45:46 johnx: Nothing else to add. Jan 15 20:46:08 johnx: Well, *fast* RAM would help Jan 15 20:46:18 RST38h, vaio p, can't playback 720p. pandora, can playback 720p. case closed Jan 15 20:46:36 s/pandora/omap3 of choice/ of course Jan 15 20:46:41 johnx: Pandora can only playback 720p when you can buy it, at least by mail order Jan 15 20:46:45 but is the sony available to buy? Jan 15 20:46:53 So, let us not compare physical things with vaporware Jan 15 20:46:57 lcuk: it is Jan 15 20:47:03 good Jan 15 20:47:21 right, im off, bbl Jan 15 20:47:41 "able to buy" and "shipping now" are two different things Jan 15 20:47:42 johnx: Besides, I somehow suspect that if you put Ubuntu on this Sony toy and get a decent hw optimized version of mplayer, it will do relatively well Jan 15 20:48:07 Stskeeps: Maemo on zaurus... may be interesting Jan 15 20:48:26 johnx: not on 720p of course, but it will do 480p Jan 15 20:49:39 i want to watch 480p on my n810 lol Jan 15 20:49:47 streaming too Jan 15 20:50:01 Omegamoon: johnx has been working on a zaurus port (and associated theme for the smaller resolution) of Mer (basically ubuntu jaunty minimal base changed into being a base for the Maemo platform (hildon, maemo gtk, etc)) Jan 15 20:50:22 Shadow_M: for 480p, ffmpeg needs just a bit better armv6 support Jan 15 20:50:27 johnx: what was screenshot urls from earlier? Jan 15 20:50:32 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/mer-maemopad.jpg Jan 15 20:50:39 also: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/mer-vga.jpg Jan 15 20:50:42 hi Omegamoon :) Jan 15 20:50:48 Shadow_M: and for streaming, whan driver also spoils the fun a bit Jan 15 20:50:57 hmm Jan 15 20:51:01 johnx: hi there Jan 15 20:51:30 Omegamoon: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/ <- quick intro and such Jan 15 20:52:45 TrueJournals, is there a way to mount samba share without wizard mount smbmount? Jan 15 20:53:10 * Omegamoon is scanning pictures Jan 15 20:53:17 Shadow_M: Yes, just use xterm... let me get a command to run... Jan 15 20:55:07 Shadow_M: Try sudo /bin/mount -t cifs "//(IP_ADDRESS)/(SHARE_NAME)" "/home/user/MyDocs/(DIRECTORY TO MOUNT TO)" -o username="(USERNAME_HERE)",password="(PASSWORD_HERE)",uid=29999,gid=29999 Jan 15 20:55:17 Replacing, of course, the things in parenthasees Jan 15 20:55:43 do i need uid and gid info Jan 15 20:55:49 Yes Jan 15 20:56:03 That's the reason wizard-mounter doesn't work... it doesn't include those Jan 15 20:56:10 So, the shares get mounted as root Jan 15 20:56:14 Instead of user Jan 15 20:56:55 ah ok that makes sense Jan 15 21:02:09 hm, US airways plane down in NY Jan 15 21:02:15 O_o Jan 15 21:02:20 (cnn) Jan 15 21:02:56 is it just me or has there been more airplane crashes/mishaps lately? Jan 15 21:03:15 johnx: actually they just reported two days ago there hadn't been a commercial aircraft crash in US for two years Jan 15 21:03:20 which obviously tempted fate Jan 15 21:03:52 where did that plane run off the runway? Jan 15 21:03:57 was that UK? Jan 15 21:04:04 canada? Jan 15 21:04:07 can't recall Jan 15 21:04:33 anyways, looks like this turned out ok for the most part...no one dead, right? Jan 15 21:04:51 at least not confirmed, and that passengers were standing on top of the plane :P Jan 15 21:04:56 heh...wasn't there something about a commercial plane never having gone down in water? Jan 15 21:05:21 as in succesfully? Jan 15 21:05:44 gone down and successfully usually aren't in the same sentence as plane Jan 15 21:05:58 as in capable of landing on water Jan 15 21:06:03 and getting everyone out Jan 15 21:06:35 maybe it was some qualifier like "open water" Jan 15 21:06:40 yeah Jan 15 21:08:49 well, I'm glad my uncle was flying into New York, not out :) Jan 15 21:09:12 yeah.. reading about it i went through my internal list of people being abroad Jan 15 21:09:48 Greetings, Any Maemo user, developers, enthusiasts in the Southern California area who might be interested in representing the project at an upcoming free & open source conference in February? Jan 15 21:10:37 johnx: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-15-plane-crash-hudson_N.htm Jan 15 21:10:41 that's kinda an amazing and incredible photo Jan 15 21:10:43 I'm curious about how do you handle multiple screen resolutions in themes... I mean, themes for maemo are fixed for 800x480 Jan 15 21:11:42 zenvoid, yes, officially. I changed the layout of panels (removed the left one) in ~/.osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf Jan 15 21:11:58 ...then I modified /usr/share/themes//matchbox/theme.xml Jan 15 21:12:39 after that it's functional, but I really need to get back and slip some graphics and possibly work out equations for placement instead of guess+check Jan 15 21:13:41 johnx: ahh, ok, so there will be a different .deb for each screen resolution, I guess Jan 15 21:14:06 yeah, I think that's the best way to do it Jan 15 21:14:33 I had a brief thought about some script to automatically clip things in postinst...but uhm, that sounds like a lot more work Jan 15 21:14:57 johnx: ufff... I prefer multiple debs :) Jan 15 21:15:04 yeah me too Jan 15 21:16:04 johnx: is there a different hildon-layout-theme? Jan 15 21:16:10 for each res, I mean Jan 15 21:16:13 not yet :) Jan 15 21:16:17 ok Jan 15 21:16:36 just yesterday I had my first luck getting it mostly layed out while I was on the train Jan 15 21:16:57 johnx: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE1549/history/20090115/2026Z/KLGA/KLGA/tracklog <- now that's web 2.0 .. Jan 15 21:17:40 Stskeeps, ... just wow Jan 15 21:18:02 johnx: yes, and kinda scary Jan 15 21:18:38 heh...it'll be awesome the next time I fly. I'll probably have inflight wifi by that point Jan 15 21:19:01 johnx: and for the most inappropiate web 2.0 ever.. Jan 15 21:19:04 http://flightaware.com/live/flight/USA1549 Jan 15 21:19:07 look at Status Jan 15 21:19:22 I see this: Bad news! FlightAware is temporarily unavailable Jan 15 21:19:36 "This is often due to extremely heavy traffic volume or an unexpected service interruption." Jan 15 21:19:44 try it again Jan 15 21:20:15 Stskeeps, yeah, "destination" is probably not exactly the right choice of words Jan 15 21:20:47 zenvoid, though I could believe they're under a certain amount of load :) Jan 15 21:22:55 johnx: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=40.750000,+-74.020000 <- very bloody good landing in terms of surviving.. Jan 15 21:23:13 right. i should get back to my paper :P Jan 15 21:23:33 bah, he only came in at 153 knots. I could land a car in the Hudson at higher speed :P Jan 15 21:23:56 though yeah. I'm surprised to see wings on that plane Jan 15 21:29:12 flock of geese in two engines.. Jan 15 21:29:13 and so it starts Jan 15 21:29:31 youtube has better coverage than cnn.com Jan 15 21:31:51 johnx, when there is no left panel (and hence no taskbar), what is the plan to change between apps? Jan 15 21:32:07 yes, I know... being more interested in technical details in maemo themes than a plane crash is not much sensible, I think Jan 15 21:32:33 zenvoid: wazd did some interesting prototypes yesterday.. sec Jan 15 21:32:39 well, you saw wazd's mockup. I'm leaning towards that if it can be done with off-the-shelf stuff Jan 15 21:32:55 ah, right, he didn't post it to his site Jan 15 21:33:18 http://s45.radikal.ru/i109/0901/9d/c13ce1d0ee25.png Jan 15 21:34:12 thanks! that is pretty interesting Jan 15 21:34:34 and looks very good Jan 15 21:34:50 and the idea is that the 'mer' logo would launch the application's menu Jan 15 21:34:58 yeah, but probably be more interesting to implement Jan 15 21:35:28 johnx, that was the question I was writing :) Jan 15 21:35:31 RST38h: around?) Jan 15 21:35:56 just before you answered :) Jan 15 21:36:14 just my psychic powers :) Jan 15 21:36:28 also, I asked the same question last night I think :D Jan 15 21:36:34 :D Jan 15 21:36:39 then launching apps would be done through icons on the desktop Jan 15 21:36:46 maemo-desktop could even be re-used Jan 15 21:37:20 as for getting the running tasks to line up like that... I need to test if I can do that actually Jan 15 21:37:24 very nice, I like it Jan 15 21:38:16 Stskeeps, BTW, I'm not seeing anything suspicious in the strace for sapwood or maemopad when it fails to load those icons...I think they might not be included in the icon theme's index (???) Jan 15 21:38:48 wazd: yep Jan 15 21:38:51 when I'm more awake I should be able to get a better idea with lsof by comparing a running maemo system and a running mer system Jan 15 21:39:19 johnx: yeah.. that's possible too, gtk-update-icon-cache didnt seem to change anything like that Jan 15 21:39:56 ...but it should fall back on *something* I think Jan 15 21:39:58 bah Jan 15 21:40:35 yeah, i'm baffled too :) Jan 15 21:41:06 anyways, lsof when I wake up again. for now I want to see if task-navigator can run in the top panel Jan 15 21:41:16 RST38h: I've sent you GBA icon to the mail :) Jan 15 21:42:05 s/task-navigator/app-switcher/ Jan 15 21:42:15 infobot, I miss you :/ Jan 15 21:42:40 who killed infobot? Jan 15 21:43:01 povbot Jan 15 21:43:16 I think I saw a futurama episode like this... Jan 15 21:43:58 I hate those stupid ass bots that interpret regexps Jan 15 21:43:59 hmmm... have you seen the "ubuntu mobile" theme? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hildon-desktop-for-ubuntu Jan 15 21:44:17 it does have only the top panel Jan 15 21:44:39 zenvoid, I played with it but for some reason it didn't play nice with our version of sapwood I think ... or something Jan 15 21:44:40 at least in the screenshots :) Jan 15 21:44:53 johnx: ah, ok Jan 15 21:45:05 one more thing I should try again :) Jan 15 21:45:10 inz: btw - do you know of anyone applying the maemo changes of libvte to later versions? Jan 15 21:45:28 johnx: also there's some patches in h-d in moblin Jan 15 21:45:30 some hints Jan 15 21:46:12 Stskeeps, no idea, I douby Jan 15 21:46:27 Stskeeps, the current version is the lates that supports gtk+ in maemo Jan 15 21:46:51 zenvoid, I just played with it a bit. It can probably be made to work with more time and/or effort Jan 15 21:46:55 inz: k Jan 15 21:47:17 Stskeeps, patches to let them add an app-switcher to the top bar? Jan 15 21:47:34 johnx: for instance Jan 15 21:47:44 look at the launchpad tree for h-d Jan 15 21:47:49 there's a patch for it i think Jan 15 21:47:51 Stskeeps, if the version now in maemo didn't fix nasty gconf bug, maemo would probably still use very ancient vte Jan 15 21:49:10 I guess the question is how many patches from different places do we want to carry ... Jan 15 21:49:25 wtf @ samba support being dropped in fremantle Jan 15 21:49:28 johnx: actually, I like your mockup much more :-) Jan 15 21:49:45 zenvoid, hmm? you mean my screenshot? Jan 15 21:49:59 it's wazd's mockup to be fair :) Jan 15 21:50:39 john: ah, well... then I like wazd's mockup much more :D Jan 15 21:53:06 ohforchristsake Jan 15 21:53:09 wsod on my 770 Jan 15 21:54:16 happens Jan 15 21:54:16 :P Jan 15 21:54:56 hmm Jan 15 21:55:03 this is the second time now Jan 15 21:55:03 :/ Jan 15 21:55:11 on same 770? :P Jan 15 21:55:17 no :p Jan 15 21:55:19 replacement Jan 15 21:55:58 i hope this gets replaced still Jan 15 21:56:17 TrueJournals, emelfm2 still gives me the same problem Jan 15 21:57:14 the built in filemanager says unable to open but then shows me the files greyed out Jan 15 21:58:12 lcuk: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26248 Jan 15 21:59:00 TrueJournals, in terminal under root i can see the files though Jan 15 21:59:50 Man, is that fugly or what... Jan 15 22:03:18 TrueJournals, wouldnt i want to mount the files as user not as root so then i can modify them Jan 15 22:05:19 it looks like xserver-xorg-input-tslib has dependencie issues in ubuntu jaunty now >:( Jan 15 22:05:25 again? Jan 15 22:05:54 were you having those problems? Jan 15 22:06:12 we are using our own custom version Jan 15 22:07:05 Stskeeps, ah, did you end up fixing the tap+release stuff yourself? Jan 15 22:07:37 johnx: my memory seems to hint so Jan 15 22:07:51 xf86-input-tslib? - that errors out too Jan 15 22:08:21 https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/xf86-input-tslib Jan 15 22:08:30 b-man: pastebin error Jan 15 22:08:51 Stskeeps, heh...I remember trying to fix it, and you don't remember fixing it :P Jan 15 22:09:12 johnx: i got pissed at it and in a raging caffeine fit fixed it Jan 15 22:09:13 :P Jan 15 22:09:32 fair enough Jan 15 22:09:43 Hah, the kobayashi theme reminds me of my old palm pilot... Jan 15 22:10:54 qwerty12_N800, hmm? Jan 15 22:10:58 something new? Jan 15 22:12:31 johnx, yer, in -devel by Leif Ryge (lcars). He's uploaded a lot of themes to -devel actually, the one i'm using is a monochrome lcd emulation of sorts Jan 15 22:13:14 uploading now... Jan 15 22:13:24 trying out titanium actually now, the nice thing about his themes is that he uses hildon theme layout :) Jan 15 22:13:43 yeah.. more people should do that Jan 15 22:13:49 very easy source packages that way Jan 15 22:13:53 qwerty12_N800, pics or it didn't happen :P Jan 15 22:14:09 indeed :) Jan 15 22:14:25 give me a sec :) Jan 15 22:14:35 titanium is the shit :) Jan 15 22:14:49 Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/m2327bd0e Jan 15 22:15:02 any1 have play the mana world whit N8*0 ? Jan 15 22:16:07 b-man: meh. i wonder if that hits mer too Jan 15 22:16:21 b-man: apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-core Jan 15 22:18:23 johnx, Jaffa: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/Amilli/ Jan 15 22:18:39 Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/m7c3de339 Jan 15 22:18:57 wazd: Sorry, was away. The GBA icon looks pretty nice =) Will put it into Maemo package tomorrow Jan 15 22:19:05 b-man: apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-input-tslib Jan 15 22:19:27 qwerty12_N800: ta Jan 15 22:21:00 Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/m5197616e Jan 15 22:21:14 RST38h: I've done "fat" version if you need it Jan 15 22:21:38 b-man: hm, ok Jan 15 22:22:17 how do you find a uid and gid of a user Jan 15 22:22:21 i'll post my /etc/apt/prefrences file Jan 15 22:22:26 id Jan 15 22:22:28 and what is the gid Jan 15 22:22:28 preferences, you mean, b-man Jan 15 22:22:43 yes, sorry :p Jan 15 22:23:00 Shadow_M: D'oh, I'm here now :-P uid 29999 = user, gid 29999 = users Jan 15 22:23:06 uid = user id, gid = group id Jan 15 22:23:18 Stskeeps - English teacher at work. :P Jan 15 22:23:45 qwerty12_N800: no, just wanted to sure he spelled it right when he made the file :P Jan 15 22:23:52 Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/m6b61cd14 Jan 15 22:23:56 hehe :P Jan 15 22:24:05 johnx, you are in japan arent you? Jan 15 22:24:07 :p Jan 15 22:24:18 b-man: i'm not confident those pin numbers are correct though Jan 15 22:25:38 i made those pin priorities low to prevent this verry reason :p Jan 15 22:25:46 TrueJournals, when i do exactly what you said in xterm it works but i still cant get into this one dir that i should be able to as user but if i loginto root i can Jan 15 22:26:05 Shadow_M: Hmm... that's very strange... Jan 15 22:26:19 yeah i know your telling me Jan 15 22:26:42 unless i am doiing something wrong that i cant tell Jan 15 22:27:08 You're trying to access a share on a Windows box? Jan 15 22:27:12 * b-man is starting to go crazy again :p Jan 15 22:28:32 b-man: this kind of stuff takes a toll on your sanity Jan 15 22:28:53 hehe :p Jan 15 22:28:58 no its on a linux box Jan 15 22:30:09 is there any way to fix this problem? Jan 15 22:30:41 Shadow_M: Hmm... then you really shouldn't be having all these problems if the user you're accessing the share as has access to the files Jan 15 22:31:42 apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-tslib=0.0.5-1mer7 Jan 15 22:31:48 see if it helps Jan 15 22:32:02 i'll try that Jan 15 22:32:36 * b-man starts blasting music in his room Jan 15 22:33:09 yeah i know TrueJournals esp since that same user gets used on 2 other comps windows and linux with no issue also on her if i loginto root all my issues dissapear Jan 15 22:33:30 accessing the files as user is giving me all the issues Jan 15 22:33:45 Have you tried chowning the mount directories to user:users ? Jan 15 22:34:43 what directory Jan 15 22:35:06 Whatever directory you're mounting the share to Jan 15 22:35:49 ah yeah i just checked is 1000:1000 Jan 15 22:36:03 That's not user:users ;-) Jan 15 22:36:16 Maemo has user:users at 29999:29999 Jan 15 22:36:16 yes agreed homeslice Jan 15 22:36:33 Try chown user:users (mount directory) Jan 15 22:36:43 Stskeeps: "E: Version '0.0.5-1mer' for 'xserver-xorg-input-tslib' was not found" :( Jan 15 22:37:10 b-man: 7 Jan 15 22:37:13 mer7 Jan 15 22:38:51 yyyyeeeesssss!!!!!, it finally worked, thanks!!! Jan 15 22:38:58 TrueJournals, did that but it doesnt let me do that when its mounted Jan 15 22:39:20 so i unmount it it works fine but when i mount it again it goes back Jan 15 22:39:30 Hmm... I'm not sure then :\ Jan 15 22:39:43 Sorry, don't know what else to try :P Jan 15 22:40:15 yeah i thought i was an experienced linux user leave it to maemo to reverse that Jan 15 22:40:28 That'll teach you! Jan 15 22:40:28 Shadow_M: i have lost my faith in computers several times, it's normal :) Jan 15 22:40:46 ah yes Jan 15 22:42:36 i will try another dir Jan 15 22:44:24 hmm, I need more sockets Jan 15 22:44:53 TrueJournals, is it supposed to be -o username="",password="",uid=2999,gid=2999 Jan 15 22:45:26 With filled in usernames and passwords, yes Jan 15 22:45:38 s/names/name Jan 15 22:46:53 b-man: how does your virtual keyboard problem manifest btw? Jan 15 22:46:59 any key press, or just enter or backspace? Jan 15 22:48:29 TrueJournals, whenever i mount something the gid and uid of the dir goes to 1000:1000 Jan 15 22:48:44 even just using sudo mount -t cifs Jan 15 22:50:11 Shadow_M: Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how cifs works... It seems that if you are connecting to a linux box, it will inherit the permissions from the share Jan 15 22:50:28 hmm oh Jan 15 22:50:30 lol Jan 15 22:50:32 So, since the shared directory is set to 1000:1000, the mount gets set to that Jan 15 22:50:48 Unfortunately... 1000:1000 isn't user on maemo Jan 15 22:50:53 I'm just not sure how to fix that :-\ Jan 15 22:50:56 right Jan 15 22:51:11 mount manually? Jan 15 22:51:19 2999? no, it's 29999 Jan 15 22:51:33 dum question; how can i pack up my rootfs into a .tar.gz without messing up permissions? Jan 15 22:52:11 Stskeeps: the keyboard problem came back in my original ubuntu jaunty install, but i haven't tested it yet in my new install (i don't have a desktop installed yet and i haven't booted it yet) Jan 15 22:52:34 b-man: how did it manifest? Jan 15 22:52:40 tar.gz? get gnutar and gzip Jan 15 22:53:02 and tar zpvcf /somewhere.tar.gz . in your mounted directory Jan 15 22:54:55 i think hal was having issues with keymaps witch caused dsme to have issues witch caused xserver-xorg to crash witch caused xsessions to screw up - witch eventually killed my install Jan 15 22:55:11 b-man: i'm not sure how DSME got into play? :P Jan 15 22:55:54 i'm not shure how it got involved eather :p Jan 15 22:56:18 but i believe it boils down to upstart Jan 15 22:56:41 i think it's just Xorg dying. :P Jan 15 22:59:21 * lcuk warns stskeeps about the piano hanging dangerously above his head Jan 15 23:00:38 lcuk: i'm so cooked up on caffeine i wouldn't be surprised if i missed it completely Jan 15 23:01:12 stability issues? :) Jan 15 23:01:12 how did you get it to play nice with virtual keyboards in mer? Jan 15 23:01:16 paranoia setting in Stskeeps? Jan 15 23:01:18 * b-man cuts the rope XD Jan 15 23:01:22 Stskeeps, i have been mounting manually do you have any ideas Jan 15 23:01:30 b-man: it's not playing nice right now Jan 15 23:01:34 Shadow_M: maybe 'noperm' as well Jan 15 23:01:35 heh b-man, you evil Jan 15 23:01:40 lol Jan 15 23:01:51 whats what Jan 15 23:02:02 MOHAHAHA!!!! >:) Jan 15 23:02:48 Stskeeps, whats noperm Jan 15 23:03:08 Shadow_M: disables security check on the client Jan 15 23:03:23 ah how do i enable that Jan 15 23:04:40 hmmm i wonder if we will ever figure out what causes xorg to die with the virtual keyboard... Jan 15 23:04:59 b-man: we hope we will as not having backspace in mer kinda -sucks- Jan 15 23:05:00 _P Jan 15 23:05:47 it works in h-i-m in maemopad for me now, but I'm not sure if I'm on the latest Jan 15 23:05:58 * qwerty12_N800 has a flashback of using dos without doskey.. Jan 15 23:06:00 I should probably backup my $HOME and reimage both machines... Jan 15 23:06:06 mabe it could have something to do with how xserver-xorg-tslibs was written.... nah :p Jan 15 23:06:17 Stskeeps, how do i use noperm Jan 15 23:06:20 * johnx has a flashback of using linux on the wii with a japanese keyboard and a spanish key layout Jan 15 23:06:22 does cherokee2217 from itt come on irc? Jan 15 23:06:23 Shadow_M: it's a option in mount Jan 15 23:06:27 ah Jan 15 23:06:33 -noperm? Jan 15 23:07:05 gid=29999,noperm Jan 15 23:07:10 nah, it's part of that comma separated string after the -o Jan 15 23:07:14 yeah, like that Jan 15 23:07:23 johnx: cool :D Jan 15 23:07:30 johnx, ha, japanish? (lame, i know...) Jan 15 23:08:07 qwerty12_N800, it was pretty special... Jan 15 23:08:13 ah, which reminds me Jan 15 23:08:24 I can imagine :) Jan 15 23:09:35 Stskeeps, how hard would it be for me to setup a PPC build box? Jan 15 23:09:52 sec, weird noise outside Jan 15 23:10:02 no perm worked thanks Stskeeps Jan 15 23:10:13 Stslaptop, more planes landing in places that aren't airports? Jan 15 23:10:34 water is kibda an airport Jan 15 23:10:36 Nokia's hitman crew Jan 15 23:10:54 qwerty12_N800, what? for fixing their init scripts? Jan 15 23:11:12 johnx: i think they might have it out for me after some of the bugs on bugs.* ;) Jan 15 23:11:21 aaaah Jan 15 23:11:27 johnx, for the above :p Jan 15 23:11:30 if you get us kicked out of the next summit :P Jan 15 23:11:51 johnx: if i get kicked out, i'm sure it'll be alcohol related Jan 15 23:11:51 :P Jan 15 23:12:25 johnx: you have a powerpc? :P Jan 15 23:12:37 heh...I was gonna say we could do a "mer summit" where we hang out in the corner of some bar, hack on stuff and get progressively drunk while making rude comments at people who come by to check our progress :D Jan 15 23:13:38 Stskeeps, I do. it's called a Wii :) Jan 15 23:14:19 and yes, I am aware that I'm supposed to be playing games on it, but ... compiling things is like a game...like gambling or something Jan 15 23:15:46 but the only thing you can lose is hair :) Jan 15 23:17:50 anyone fancy testing nicer sounding a2dp? Jan 15 23:17:59 oooh Jan 15 23:18:14 thanks to ssvb's patches that is Jan 15 23:18:15 sorry lardman ive never used my tablet for anything audio Jan 15 23:18:24 lcuk: no worries Jan 15 23:19:02 lardman, you had to ask now :). I can't be bothered to get out of bed now :P Jan 15 23:19:24 :) Jan 15 23:19:35 my headset is charging, so I can't tell yet Jan 15 23:19:39 this is the wireless headphone thing isnt it Jan 15 23:19:53 it's just a replacement for the existing bluez-utils, same version, no dsp stuff Jan 15 23:20:00 can you get speakers which do same thing Jan 15 23:20:04 lardman: how is it CPU wise? Jan 15 23:20:07 just with sbc patches from bluez 4.26 Jan 15 23:20:17 no idea, can't be any worse though Jan 15 23:20:19 k Jan 15 23:20:36 so, if we have a new bluez-utils in mer, we would already have that stuff? Jan 15 23:20:42 there was another patch for something outside the sbc directory to reduce copies, I'll have to dig that one out and try adding it in too Jan 15 23:21:00 Stskeeps: only if you have 4.x.x Jan 15 23:21:09 4.xx that should be Jan 15 23:21:24 4.25-0ubuntu4 Jan 15 23:21:42 ssvb is digging out patches for lots of things, hes found me a nice looking asm stretchblit which im gonna try and get in as soon as the dust settles here Jan 15 23:21:46 :) Jan 15 23:24:28 i'm using 2.2007.51-3... that's far out of date, no? Jan 15 23:24:59 yes. the latest release is about a year later :) Jan 15 23:25:14 5.2008.43-7 is latest on n8x0 Jan 15 23:28:30 * b-man starts applying patches to ubuntu to make it function properly Jan 15 23:28:50 where on earth do I get it? Jan 15 23:29:01 ~flashing Jan 15 23:29:08 crap, no infobot Jan 15 23:29:13 I am stumbling all over the internet and there are no good pointers to how to flash it, I have flasher-3.0.amd64 but no new .bin file Jan 15 23:29:13 Toba, one sec :) Jan 15 23:29:16 thanks... Jan 15 23:29:27 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com Jan 15 23:29:28 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 15 23:29:47 the first link has instructions for mac, linux and windows. the second has the actual firmware files :) Jan 15 23:30:18 ah, didn't read that last part :) nevermind me Jan 15 23:31:02 * b-man is extremely excited - school is canceld for me tomorrow!!! - meaning more time on ubuntu!!! woho!! :D Jan 15 23:31:26 ~and installer Jan 15 23:31:35 b-man: ubuntu might cause you to drop out of college Jan 15 23:31:45 hehe Jan 15 23:31:52 thanks johnx Jan 15 23:31:58 ha, read that one... Jan 15 23:32:03 ( http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 ) Jan 15 23:32:22 * johnx wonders if it was ubuntu all this time Jan 15 23:32:57 johnx: it was actually a mac.. Jan 15 23:32:58 ;) Jan 15 23:33:07 oh, in -your- case Jan 15 23:33:26 Stskeeps: the temperature for tomorrow is so low that thay canceld school for tomorrow! Jan 15 23:33:46 b-man: how cold in F? Jan 15 23:33:52 -12 Jan 15 23:34:03 (for low) Jan 15 23:34:07 3 Jan 15 23:34:11 yeah, okay Jan 15 23:34:17 (for high) Jan 15 23:34:23 hi there Jan 15 23:34:29 hello Jan 15 23:34:47 b-man: about 37.4 F here atm Jan 15 23:34:47 is it possible to uplad a package source via SCP to extra-devel? Jan 15 23:34:56 gnuton: isn't it the only way? Jan 15 23:35:02 you can use dput Jan 15 23:35:15 Stskeeps: it's the only way for me :( Jan 15 23:35:22 (which does scp to my knowledge...) Jan 15 23:35:40 I receive this error: Jan 15 23:35:52 Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). Jan 15 23:36:22 Are your keys correct? Jan 15 23:36:24 Stskeeps: the average here is usally 24-36 F - so this is verry unusual Jan 15 23:36:25 evening all. Is the site to dl diablo always so sodding slow? Jan 15 23:36:41 matmo: tablets-dev?? Jan 15 23:36:43 mmmmmmmm bacon Jan 15 23:36:44 -? Jan 15 23:36:50 lcuk: mmm. bacon. Jan 15 23:37:01 http://liqbase.net/liq.20090115_233206.gary.scr.png Jan 15 23:37:14 qwerty12_N800: what do I need? Jan 15 23:37:34 Stskeeps: yep Jan 15 23:37:51 qwerty12_N800: do I need to genereate my ssh public key and upload it on the server.. Jan 15 23:37:52 lcuk, I think a 'flying bacon' screensaver ala 'flying toasters' may be in order Jan 15 23:37:52 ? Jan 15 23:37:54 matmo: i usually get it with 900k/s or so Jan 15 23:38:02 johnx: for Mer+ Jan 15 23:38:02 ? Jan 15 23:38:03 :P Jan 15 23:38:10 johnx i already have one, :) Jan 15 23:38:11 I'm getting 10 KB/s Jan 15 23:38:13 gnuton, it goes on your garage page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Jan 15 23:38:29 liqbase includes it but yeah it will be standalone Jan 15 23:38:50 qwerty12_N800: ok, I'm reading it.. Jan 15 23:38:59 * lcuk is migrating liqbase as we speak :) Jan 15 23:39:41 gnuton, is this the sign of new qt packages? :) Jan 15 23:40:17 Could anyone check tablet-dev dl speed for me? I'd like to know if my isp is throttling. Jan 15 23:40:24 qwerty12_N800: Yes I have to uplad the new one Jan 15 23:40:32 qwerty12_N800: QT 4.4.3 + MAemo patches Jan 15 23:40:52 gnuton, wicked, hope you get everything sorted :) Jan 15 23:41:28 qwerty12_N800: I hope that Jan 15 23:42:28 more bacon on #maemo :D Jan 15 23:42:31 phew, today was totaly console day :) Jan 15 23:42:34 http://s55.radikal.ru/i147/0901/68/c9874d0834b9.png Jan 15 23:42:53 lardman, dpkg isn't fussy about extension btw :) Jan 15 23:43:08 ok cool, thanks for that Jan 15 23:43:49 * qwerty12_N800 regularly uses dpkg on "php" attachments Jan 15 23:44:14 :) Jan 15 23:45:09 strange, it's now up to 120 KB/s. Someone must be listening :-) Jan 15 23:45:27 qwerty12_N800: done.. Jan 15 23:45:29 :D Jan 15 23:45:31 oh yeah, sorry we were playing numpty on the server Jan 15 23:45:40 lol Jan 15 23:45:44 gnuton, wicked :) Jan 15 23:45:48 11mins is much better than 3.5hrs Jan 15 23:46:13 matmo: must have been the microwave in use in the server room! Jan 15 23:46:20 gnuton, whats the payload for qt now then? Jan 15 23:46:20 qwerty12_N800: I've reinstalled everything and I forgotten to upload my ssh public key to the server Jan 15 23:46:32 "What is life if we have no time to stop & stare..." Jan 15 23:46:48 gnuton, upload does not require pub keys any more i think Jan 15 23:46:58 depends what you stare at :) Jan 15 23:46:59 lcuk: for uploading it does afaik Jan 15 23:47:04 lcuk: you mean signing packages Jan 15 23:47:07 gnuton, hah, i had to ask X-Fade for a new invite when I lost my keys :) Jan 15 23:47:11 Stskeeps: yeah or someone co-opting the server like lcuk says :-) Jan 15 23:47:11 ahhh yes Jan 15 23:47:15 lcuk, it does Jan 15 23:47:24 its ok, sts pointed out the difference Jan 15 23:47:30 lcuk: I cant upload a file via scp without a public ssh key Jan 15 23:47:48 so did anyone manage to get a cheap N800/810 today? Jan 15 23:48:11 qwerty12_N800: :P Jan 15 23:48:41 matmo: no UK based :) Jan 15 23:48:49 I know a very little bit of python, but that seems to be the language I want to use. I know how to program, and I use linux on my desktop. What would you all suggest in order to learn how to program a GUI app on Maemo? Does maemo use a normal GTK python library? What sort of testing solutions exist? Jan 15 23:49:06 damn, is about the 2 o'clock and I'm still working.. :( Jan 15 23:49:07 Stskeeps: you not in the UK? Jan 15 23:49:07 gnuton, He told me that he'd get the Nokia hitman crew on me if I lost them again :P Jan 15 23:49:17 I want to write a calendar application that syncs with google calendar and actually works Jan 15 23:49:22 qwerty12_N800: ahahah :D Jan 15 23:49:38 matmo: not, yeah :) Jan 15 23:49:39 qwerty12_N800: you can burn them on a CD.. :P Jan 15 23:49:50 ok Jan 15 23:49:51 dmsuperman: pygtk is represented on maemo, yeah Jan 15 23:50:07 qwerty12_N800: you have to backup them :P Jan 15 23:50:14 gnuton, hehe, yes, that could save my life :D Jan 15 23:50:24 maybe they do deals elsewhere or maybe it's just pcw dumping stock Jan 15 23:50:41 qwerty12_N800: and you can save a bit of X-Fade's time :P Jan 15 23:50:43 http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257939&postcount=151 <- this thread is quickly turning very disturbing Jan 15 23:50:44 Stskeeps: What about testing? Should I just VNC to my N800 and run things there? Jan 15 23:50:54 dmsuperman: yeah. some people even develop directly to tablet Jan 15 23:50:57 or ssh to them Jan 15 23:50:59 to = on Jan 15 23:51:14 Is there a way to perhaps run it in a VM or something? Jan 15 23:51:22 gnuton, :P Jan 15 23:51:29 Stskeeps, i think it sounds like an ideal developer assistance Jan 15 23:51:31 program Jan 15 23:51:37 dmsuperman: http://pluthon.garage.maemo.org/ Jan 15 23:52:03 hmm, my gtk dialogs don't seem to have any contents Jan 15 23:52:22 can you accept them though? Jan 15 23:53:06 Stskeeps: Wow, perfect, I already use eclipse :D Jan 15 23:53:14 Stskeeps: Thanks :) Jan 15 23:53:32 lcuk: yeah, they have buttons, just no labels, etc Jan 15 23:53:43 users never read them anyway, they won't notice. ship it! Jan 15 23:53:53 lol Jan 15 23:54:04 back down to 15 KB/s. Hey you! Yes you in the server room! Stop f**king around! Jan 15 23:54:06 create new table? yes, name, who cares! Jan 15 23:54:12 jk Jan 15 23:54:20 matmo: frying bacon in the microwave.. Jan 15 23:54:24 heh are you making microsoft access? Jan 15 23:54:49 Stskeeps: you keeping me from my bed dude Jan 15 23:55:06 Stskeeps: dum question, how can i safely pack my mounted ubuntu jaunty rootfs into a tar.gz? Jan 15 23:55:23 b-man: answered earlier Jan 15 23:55:24 lcuk: yeah, something like that :) Jan 15 23:55:39 and tar zpvcf /somewhere.tar.gz . in your mounted directory Jan 15 23:55:40 i got disconnected Jan 15 23:55:45 -> b-man Jan 15 23:55:51 excellent, im making visual studio, perhaps we can find someone to make word :) Jan 15 23:55:52 make sure its not from within ubuntu :P Jan 15 23:55:59 and you have proc and dev/pts and such unmounted Jan 15 23:56:15 ok, thanks Jan 15 23:56:19 :O @ realisation of the name Jan 15 23:56:44 I'd prefer Excel Jan 15 23:56:54 I tried making my own a long while back, never got finished Jan 15 23:57:18 Stskeeps: So that just runs the apps on the N800 through X over SSH? Jan 15 23:57:44 trees and tables and relationships between them interest me more than a flat spreadsheet Jan 15 23:57:50 dmsuperman: think it runs them on-tablet and shows on-tablet possibly Jan 15 23:57:54 i actually dunno Jan 15 23:57:58 graphs and equations between cells :) Jan 15 23:58:18 yeah but i prefer a bit more structure lol Jan 15 23:58:40 too many prototypes built in a spreadsheet end up in production Jan 15 23:58:42 Stskeeps: Heh, alright Jan 15 23:59:08 would be nice to have a way to export from a spreadsheet to a db Jan 15 23:59:23 and ensure it still works and maintains the formulas and relationships Jan 15 23:59:30 hmm, my program just tried to allocate 20,480 Megabytes of memory Jan 15 23:59:36 failed strangely enough Jan 15 23:59:40 heh i got liqbase upto 200mb Jan 15 23:59:56 i think i loaded 25000 sketches Jan 16 00:00:08 and I'm English so that's 20Gb for any Europeans Jan 16 00:00:09 still scrolled nicely though :) Jan 16 00:00:39 with swap? Jan 16 00:01:01 yeah, was stress testing it Jan 16 00:01:18 seeing how long it would take to fill up memory using sketches alone Jan 16 00:02:11 grrr...where's my usb ethernet adapter Jan 16 00:06:53 everyone seen hack-a-day post on audio-to-ir widget for TV etc remote control (iTouch)? Jan 16 00:07:58 matmo: that's pretty old trick Jan 16 00:07:59 fk! Diablo dl stalled at 111M Jan 16 00:08:15 matmo: Maemo even has an app for it Jan 16 00:08:32 wazd: I know, some may not Jan 16 00:08:38 anyone know if the char* returned by gtk_entry_get_text() needs to be freed, or does it point to internal data? Jan 16 00:09:33 Returns : Jan 16 00:09:33 a pointer to the contents of the widget as a string. This string points to internally allocated storage in the widget and must not be freed, modified or stored. Jan 16 00:09:41 http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkEntry.html#gtk-entry-get-text Jan 16 00:09:45 ah cool, thanks Jan 16 00:09:49 :) np Jan 16 00:09:56 well fk-a-duck, my dl wouldn't restart. 40mins wait for nuddin Jan 16 00:10:05 * lardman should learn to rtfm :) Jan 16 00:10:13 gnite anyway folks \o Jan 16 00:10:25 nighty-night Jan 16 00:10:26 nahhh lardman :) its easier to ask sometimes Jan 16 00:12:30 any US based nokia people here? Jan 16 00:13:08 lcuk: you are in the uk yes? Jan 16 00:13:32 lol, I charged my Nokia GPS all night and was wondering why it wouldn't turn on this morning - I hadn't put the battery in :) Jan 16 00:13:55 lardman: uk? Jan 16 00:15:10 night guys Jan 16 00:15:35 matmo: ? Jan 16 00:16:11 if you are in the uk would you start a diablo dl and tell me what speed you get? Jan 16 00:16:29 yeah, can do, from the maemo.org site? Jan 16 00:16:50 from from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com Jan 16 00:18:00 really would like to know if nokia server is the problem or my isp Jan 16 00:20:35 * lardman considers getting a wiimote Jan 16 00:21:19 bed time, night all Jan 16 00:21:27 good luck with the d/l matmo Jan 16 00:21:38 thks, g'nite Jan 16 00:26:24 enough, c ya Jan 16 00:26:41 how to support flac files in meadiastreamer or youamp Jan 16 00:32:25 Stskeeps in this picture http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/nit-env-gnome-basic.png what is the wireless icon your using in the top right? Jan 16 00:34:51 network-manager, i believe Jan 16 00:35:12 nm-applet's resources Jan 16 00:35:40 cuz i just did i deblet install like 20 mins ago and its not there by default Jan 16 00:36:53 b1ackdeath: didn't design the gnome nit env myself so im not sure if its there or not. In any case, i moved on from deblet and we're now actively working on Mer Jan 16 00:36:59 which has a lot more potential Jan 16 00:37:35 alright thanks Jan 16 00:37:59 but you'll hopefully see more of that eventually Jan 16 00:38:43 what about Ubuntu Jaunty ? Jan 16 00:40:02 also possible Jan 16 00:41:01 * b-man is maintaining nit-env-gnome and ubuntu jaunty Jan 16 00:41:31 (for nit's) Jan 16 00:41:53 ha! found my usb ethernet adapter Jan 16 00:42:18 b-man: yeah, except deblet repo is kinda stalled :) Jan 16 00:42:33 yah :) Jan 16 00:43:18 http://gadgetoid.com/pandora/title.jpg :) Jan 16 00:43:50 yes, but where's the hardware? Jan 16 00:43:50 :P Jan 16 00:43:53 Hahahahaha Jan 16 00:43:57 i think Deblet is slowly becoming obsolete ;p Jan 16 00:44:11 Just because it's a figment of our collective imagination, doesn't mean that it does not exist! Jan 16 00:44:50 Gadgetoid: are you speaking of God or of the Pandora? Jan 16 00:45:10 Are they not the same thing, oh brother Stskeeps? Jan 16 00:45:27 Gadgetoid: well, pandoras do require sacrifice.. Jan 16 00:45:38 Stskeeps: touche! Jan 16 00:45:56 Gadgetoid: so, anyway, what is the wallpaper for? :P Jan 16 00:46:17 It's the new backdrop to Penguin Command Jan 16 00:46:32 Or the version I am currently tinkering with Jan 16 00:46:57 ah Jan 16 00:49:01 taking over from pupnik and muddling my way through cleaning it up Jan 16 00:50:43 Stskeeps: Any idea where pluthon has IRC support? Jan 16 00:51:11 dmsuperman: no clue. maybe some of them hide here Jan 16 00:52:29 Any pluthon people here? I can't create a project: No more handles (java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no swt-mozilla-gtk-3349 or swt-mozilla-gtk in swt.library.path, java.library.path, or the jar file) Jan 16 00:54:37 I have a reverse ssh tunnel to allow me to ssh from my desktop to the n810 after the n810 has ssh'd into my desktop. I'm getting publickey error when I try to do so. I've scp'd the id_rsa.pub file from the desktop directly to .ssh/authorized_keys, so I know the key is correct...any suggestions? Jan 16 00:56:48 check permissions on .ssh and authorized_keys. make sure that read and write is off for 'other' Jan 16 00:57:00 read too? Jan 16 00:57:23 you probably want it off for .ssh, yeah Jan 16 00:57:31 since theoretically your private key is there Jan 16 01:00:50 same error Jan 16 01:02:02 which desktop distro dick-richardson? Jan 16 01:02:29 ubuntu ... latest stable (I can't remember the moniker) Jan 16 01:02:46 shouldn't that be authorized_keys2 Jan 16 01:02:48 ? Jan 16 01:02:54 No Jan 16 01:03:01 not this round Jan 16 01:04:06 it's really quite baffling :/ Jan 16 01:09:13 is there a hosts.allow I need to edit on the n810? Jan 16 01:17:08 it does work via password, but when I turn off password authentication it chokes Jan 16 01:20:06 I had an issue where my key just simply wasn't being accepted Jan 16 01:20:09 With my host Jan 16 01:20:25 Someone suggested I use the gui tool which ships with Ubuntu to set it up Jan 16 01:20:27 That worked Jan 16 01:20:35 I can't for the life of me remember what the tool was called though Jan 16 01:25:09 new key from the console utility didn't fix it Jan 16 01:35:35 I don't know if this is progress, but trying a dsa key just sits at a newline on the desktop, rather than a flat-out publickey rejection Jan 16 02:16:22 Hey. Jan 16 02:16:48 Random question... would this card: http://www.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-SPH-V4400-SIEMENS-VOLTAGE-MULTIMEDIA/dp/B000H88VX8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1232072110&sr=8-1 Jan 16 02:16:53 work in a Nokia 770? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 16 02:59:57 2009