**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 17 02:59:56 2009 Jan 17 03:45:13 is chinook the last system for n800 ? Jan 17 03:49:49 no, diablo Jan 17 03:52:34 b-man: where i can see a changelog, screenshots, etc of diablo ? (so that know if i would like to update hte firmware) Jan 17 03:53:51 is a stable release or just a development one ? Jan 17 03:54:33 http://tableteer.nokia.com/tableteer/os2008/feat_diablo.xhtml#top Jan 17 03:55:02 thx Jan 17 03:55:32 anyone going to SCaLE? Don't see Maemo on the list. Jan 17 03:58:00 b-man: mmh, i dont see any changelog there or nothing talking about his features Jan 17 03:59:58 * b-man looks for a changelog :) Jan 17 04:00:24 anyways... it is much better than chinook (that actually i have), b-man ? Jan 17 04:02:22 yes :), diablo allows you to upgrade without a computer, it has better features, and it's more stable Jan 17 04:02:37 (in a nut shell) Jan 17 04:04:10 heh, well, not sounds bad :) in any case updates should be better than older software/system, i will update tomorrow then :) Jan 17 04:04:33 good luck :) Jan 17 04:04:50 thx, np :) Jan 17 04:09:33 gasoline does not freeze at -11F, and water-in-gas-freezing is rare these days with 10% eth blends. Jan 17 04:09:34 * b-man allmost falls asleep in front of his computer -- drank too much coffie -- caffien makes him sleepy ;p Jan 17 04:09:51 anybody knows anything about the EFL development over maemo ? Jan 17 04:09:58 packages in teh repositories ? Jan 17 04:17:39 mmmh, i have chinook installed on a external SD card, how i just dump the new image to my sd card so that i dont need to install again a boot menu and stuff ? Jan 17 05:41:16 is it possible to add a "sticky" alt key to osso-xterm? Jan 17 05:42:02 I saw some irc logs from a few months ago where it was claimed that a recompile was required - this is acceptable - but doable. Jan 17 06:13:11 Hey Jan 17 06:13:36 hi Jan 17 06:15:14 eee pc Jan 17 06:15:21 miss tell Jan 17 06:15:39 hmm? Jan 17 08:12:11 hey Jan 17 08:12:46 anyone know if ipv6 works ootb on diablo?? Jan 17 08:15:16 Looking at http://wnd.katei.fi/weblog/entry-38 & http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21349&highlight=ipv6 , I guess it does Jan 17 08:17:37 ty Jan 17 08:27:29 xchat is now unthemed in Mer :( Jan 17 08:28:07 i have no idea why Jan 17 08:28:26 Morning, all Jan 17 08:28:37 morning Jaffa Jan 17 09:03:08 Morning all ! Jan 17 09:03:24 morning Khertan Jan 17 09:06:57 lo Jan 17 09:08:51 hi Jan 17 09:09:36 i am planning to try adv-power in Mer, is there a replacement in Mer for all these: Depends: python2.5, python2.5-dbus, python2.5-gnome, python2.5-gtk2, python2.5-hildon, python2.5-hildondesktop, hildon-desktop-python-loader Jan 17 09:10:03 Probably not all, but you can knock off the 2.5 on most. Jan 17 09:10:09 ok Jan 17 10:12:01 morning Jan 17 10:12:46 morning Jan 17 10:13:38 Meiz_n810: pygtk doesnt work yet sanely :( Jan 17 10:14:46 Meiz_n810: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/wide-mer.png Jan 17 10:14:49 1280x800 Mer ;) Jan 17 10:15:15 heh, i just tried to install x86 version Jan 17 10:15:31 its not trivial but i can tell you what to do Jan 17 10:15:38 you need a ubuntu livecd Jan 17 10:16:25 yes, i have one, i tried to just apt-get install hildon-desktop-env on jaunty this morning :P Jan 17 10:16:28 failed Jan 17 10:17:58 hehe, its not that easy Jan 17 10:18:08 * Meiz_n810 puts the livecd in... Jan 17 10:18:28 Stskeeps: first-boot-wizard came up :P Jan 17 10:18:33 and you're OK with overwriting the HD? Jan 17 10:18:40 yep Jan 17 10:18:42 alright Jan 17 10:19:14 this computer is old and shitty, it exists for testing like this :) Jan 17 10:19:49 ports.ubuntu.com seems to be down... :( Jan 17 10:19:57 its fine, we're using archive for x86 Jan 17 10:21:03 basically sudo su in terminal when you're in the livecd, cfdisk /dev/hda (or sda if that's your harddisk), erase all partitions and add one linux partition, make it bootable Jan 17 10:21:30 ok Jan 17 10:21:35 then mkfs.ext3 /dev/hda1 Jan 17 10:21:46 mkdir -p /mnt/mer Jan 17 10:21:47 mount -t ext3 /dev/hda1 /mnt/mer Jan 17 10:21:50 ext3 is deprecated! Jan 17 10:22:28 Corsac: yes, i'd much rather use ZFS Jan 17 10:22:44 hah Jan 17 10:22:52 Jaffa: You can extend the tracker schema by putting a service file to a specific folder and running tracker restart. Or did you have that in mind yesterday evening? Jan 17 10:23:33 i have been trying to install adv-powers depends, but that stupid repo is down :( Jan 17 10:24:31 Meiz_n810: yeah.. and pygtk wont work Jan 17 10:24:35 so it's a uphill battle Jan 17 10:25:12 noon all) Jan 17 10:25:26 morning :P Jan 17 10:25:46 Meiz_n810: and then cd /mnt/mer; wget mer-x86-generic-fs-only-image.tar.gz Jan 17 10:25:48 er Jan 17 10:25:54 wget http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-x86-generic-fs-only-image.tar.gz Jan 17 10:26:02 ok Jan 17 10:26:06 .. better yet, let me get coffee and not make an idiot of myself Jan 17 10:26:10 wget http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/snapshots/mer-x86-generic-fs-only-image.tar.gz Jan 17 10:30:38 now it will download about 20 min Jan 17 10:31:38 yeah Jan 17 10:32:20 then just tar -zxvf and rest of the wiki-steps? Jan 17 10:33:32 tar pzvxf yeah - is your hd hda or sda btw? Jan 17 10:34:09 sda Jan 17 10:34:40 k Jan 17 10:35:29 yes, follow guide but also chroot /mnt/mer passwd and chroot /mnt/mer apt-get install nano or whatever editor you like Jan 17 10:35:46 you might want to edit /mnt/mer/usr/bin/start-hildon and change use_cursor no into use_cursor yes Jan 17 10:36:03 and make bloody sure your menu.lst says sda1, not hda1 Jan 17 10:39:15 you have it connected through ethernet? Jan 17 10:40:42 yep Jan 17 10:41:51 Jaffa, I think you were looking for http://pastebin.com/d55734abe y/day. (I personally like to use http://pastebin.com/d27632359) Jan 17 10:43:17 qwerty12: i now provide 770, n8x0 tar.gz's, n8x0 jffs (raw and sumtooled) and x86 images as part of release process btw Jan 17 10:43:56 Stskeeps, hah, how long does that take? :D Jan 17 10:44:12 qwerty12: i didn't time it but a couple of hours Jan 17 10:44:23 :/ Jan 17 10:44:23 x86 is fast, obviously Jan 17 10:45:14 Why provide a raw image btw? A sumtooled image works out better anyway (even if it is a bit larger) :/ Jan 17 10:45:53 mm, it was mostly as part of the process really Jan 17 10:46:01 so i can see how much it is without the checksums Jan 17 10:46:08 ah Jan 17 10:47:53 http://rafb.net/p/HIc50s46.html <- sizes atm Jan 17 10:48:19 Now all you need is the fiasco image :p Jan 17 10:49:18 hehe Jan 17 10:49:24 and initfs hopefully : Jan 17 10:49:24 P Jan 17 10:50:41 hehe, damn licenses :P Jan 17 10:55:03 hm, is it an idea to port localepurge - Automagically remove unnecessary locale data to maemo? Jan 17 10:55:21 aquatix, http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.internettablettalk.com%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D24564&ei=FLlxScSqKsmH-gaZi_CrBw&usg=AFQjCNGF0C2SKZY1t1xneUu8SbIxeEqvpg&sig2=MBhfRZC_XETAHNXoSsE7MA Jan 17 10:55:26 or even www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24564 Jan 17 10:55:38 ah, i should've googled first :) Jan 17 10:55:38 * Stskeeps ponders how much docpurge would bring these days Jan 17 10:56:01 /usr/share/locale is 43MB here Jan 17 10:57:20 now where did i put docpurge.. Jan 17 11:00:01 Meiz_n810: how is it? Jan 17 11:07:18 Stskeeps: now unpacking Jan 17 11:07:32 alright Jan 17 11:16:11 Stskeeps: i cannot reach internet from Mer chroot :( Jan 17 11:17:22 Stskeeps: works now after dhclient Jan 17 11:17:37 eth0 Jan 17 11:17:56 yeah resolv.conf Jan 17 11:22:17 :( Jan 17 11:22:25 Mer did not boot Jan 17 11:22:35 i'm on busybox now Jan 17 11:22:43 (initramfs) Jan 17 11:22:53 did you edit your menu.lst? Jan 17 11:23:06 no.. it looked alright Jan 17 11:23:39 edit hda1 -> sda1 Jan 17 11:24:22 it should already be sda... Jan 17 11:25:02 lol, what a stupid error, it is hda Jan 17 11:25:17 told you Jan 17 11:25:43 yes, but i was sure i checked it Jan 17 11:29:05 so in thailand they used anti-armor shots against the protestors. shells ripped their bodies apart. Jan 17 11:29:18 wrong channel nm Jan 17 11:44:13 Meiz_n810: any luck? Jan 17 11:46:32 yep, it boots now Jan 17 11:46:38 i'm now installing some stuff Jan 17 11:49:41 but the enter key near letters is dead 0_o Jan 17 11:51:23 hello, johnx Jan 17 11:51:41 Meiz_n810: yeah, weird issues Jan 17 11:53:54 how's speed? Jan 17 11:54:17 pretty good Jan 17 11:54:24 i think Jan 17 11:55:14 qwerty12: btw, does mer-xchat require maemo-select-location? (do we even have that?) Jan 17 11:55:22 (sp) Jan 17 11:55:35 it recuires Jan 17 11:55:43 s/c/q/ Jan 17 11:55:55 Stskeeps, no, I forgot to remove it as a dependency :/. You can remove the dependency fine, the postinst only runs it if it is found. Jan 17 11:56:07 i wonder what package it is in.. Jan 17 11:56:08 hmm Jan 17 11:56:12 hildon-app-manager provides maemo-menu-select-location Jan 17 11:56:31 oh foo Jan 17 11:56:57 * RST38h moos evilly Jan 17 11:57:13 how can i set screen resolution? (xorg.conf is empty) Jan 17 11:57:14 How are things in the maemo land? =) Jan 17 11:57:35 RST38h: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/wide-mer.png <- Mer on 1280x800 ;) Jan 17 11:57:43 (on x86) Jan 17 11:58:17 Sts: any hints on when the usable N8x0 version will be ready? =) Jan 17 11:58:42 RST38h: well backspace and enter on the on screen keyboard kills Xorg right now Jan 17 11:58:46 but hopefully soon Jan 17 12:02:39 Sts: urgh Jan 17 12:02:48 sounds weird though Jan 17 12:03:10 is it some special key combination that switches screen mode? Jan 17 12:03:36 RST38h: i think it's some strange issue with either HAL, or a missing nozap statement Jan 17 12:03:51 but on screen keyboard causing ctrl-alt-backspace is just fucked if its hat Jan 17 12:04:54 RST38h: moo) Jan 17 12:08:25 wazd: hey, adding icons right now Jan 17 12:08:35 wazd: even colem one looks semidecent Jan 17 12:09:21 RST38h: I'm drawing game gear now Jan 17 12:11:16 acknowledged Jan 17 12:11:23 hmm, sb2 is acting up again Jan 17 12:14:04 Meiz_n810: what kind of resolution do you get btw? Jan 17 12:14:04 hmm what are the differences between sb1 and sb2? my opinion is that sb2 is almost more complicated than sb1! Jan 17 12:14:15 thopiekar: different approach to things Jan 17 12:14:27 sb2 is saner Jan 17 12:14:28 underneath sb1 is a lot more complicated than sb2 Jan 17 12:14:59 sb2 really isn't very complicated, just prepend all your commands with "sb2" and you are done Jan 17 12:15:35 hmm but whats about root commands? Jan 17 12:15:58 sb2 -R Jan 17 12:15:58 :P Jan 17 12:16:29 hmm why isn't sudo possible? Jan 17 12:16:34 :-/ Jan 17 12:16:58 * available? Jan 17 12:17:15 Stskeeps: 1600x1200 Jan 17 12:17:57 Stskeeps: lxrandr is a good tool to set resolution, Mer 800x600 looks almost normal :P Jan 17 12:18:07 alright Jan 17 12:18:09 thopiekar: why would you need a root command to build a program? Jan 17 12:18:10 thopiekar: cos its not a VM :P Jan 17 12:18:44 Meiz_n810: hehe, yeah, worth considering to have that as part of hildon-desktop-env or whatever :P Jan 17 12:18:56 RST38h for sudo apt-get update; for sudo apt-get upgrade ? Jan 17 12:19:21 * RST38h never needed these from an SDK Jan 17 12:19:30 * RST38h just needs SDK to compile and package things Jan 17 12:20:01 * thopiekar thinks that keeping an SDK up-to-date is important Jan 17 12:20:20 RST38h: in Mer it's just a flat buildd initially, that is, none of the packages installed except for build-essential and such Jan 17 12:22:08 Sts: well, all the Maemo libraries and headers have to be there Jan 17 12:22:18 not really, they just have to be fetchable Jan 17 12:22:46 Sts: when I install an SDK, I want to compile applications. Right away. Without extra steps. Jan 17 12:23:17 Sts: The number of people who will make through these extra steps will probably be in the 25%-50% range, the rest will not develop on Mer. Jan 17 12:23:49 RST38h: well, on the other side, this development model is closer to how it is like with normal unix development. nevertheless, it's trivial to make a rootstrap that has those abilities Jan 17 12:24:02 but it impairs people's ability to see what dev packages their software needs to build Jan 17 12:24:12 Sts: When I do normal unix development, all the basic stuff is already installed Jan 17 12:24:25 RST38h: oh, libc headers and all that crap is already there Jan 17 12:24:32 just not let's say, libhildondesktop-dev Jan 17 12:24:45 Sts: A situation where you had to separately install g++ and x11 headers in Linux was not "normal" by any measure Jan 17 12:25:05 Sts: well, that is wrong because it is one of the base packages Jan 17 12:25:08 x11 headers is normal not to be there, g++ is normal to be there though Jan 17 12:25:20 Sts: Not in Linux as of a few years ago Jan 17 12:25:31 RST38h: in a build-essential setting, it is normal Jan 17 12:25:45 Sts: Also, Linux required having kernel sources just to compile "hello world" because stdio.h included some kernel include files :) Jan 17 12:25:59 in any case. both models are possible Jan 17 12:26:16 Sts: The default model should give immediate access to whatever is available on device by default Jan 17 12:26:34 we just decided to use the bare sdk model (with the build tools and basic linux headers) to encourage proper packages with proper dependancies Jan 17 12:26:44 you'd be surprised how many use autoconf but do not depend on it Jan 17 12:26:45 ok, new emulator packages ready Jan 17 12:26:59 Sts: I know, but do not. Jan 17 12:27:22 which is absolutely crap when we want to make things portable :) Jan 17 12:27:47 hm, swap file did not mount Jan 17 12:27:56 Sts: You want things to work on the NIT first of all Jan 17 12:28:06 Portable is a nice-to-have Jan 17 12:28:35 RST38h: wasn't the initial goal really - we actually wanted to avoid the tablet-isms Jan 17 12:29:12 RST38h: anyhow - two things are possible, a rootstrap with all the dev packages installed for the foundation of mer, and a bare one where you can get the dev packages you want Jan 17 12:29:34 so, it's a moot question, we can just distribute two rootstraps Jan 17 12:29:39 hmmm, now it mounted...weird. Jan 17 12:29:50 Sts: yes, a reasonable solution Jan 17 12:30:01 Sts: And you may have more for other devices Jan 17 12:30:04 right now we provide a bare one cos with all the changes going on, it is difficult to pin down the exact packages Jan 17 12:30:30 so it's a matter of apt-get build-dep the source package, dpkg-buildpackage it :P Jan 17 12:31:03 should just be a clearly documented one-step thing Jan 17 12:31:27 apt-get install mer-dev ;) Jan 17 12:31:35 no voodoo - people are reluctant to develop for a system that does not provide windows-based sdk as it is Jan 17 12:33:06 besides that, we're going to provide vmware appliances with mer installed on it, so it's possible immediately to test your applications Jan 17 12:33:15 and with a simple compile, bring it to the other device Jan 17 12:33:30 vmware appliance is just making the whole thing more complicated Jan 17 12:33:42 or install it onto your physical computer Jan 17 12:33:46 ;) Jan 17 12:33:46 ideally, you want to let users develop from Visual Studio Jan 17 12:33:55 RST38h, die Jan 17 12:34:14 heh Jan 17 12:34:24 RST38h: ideally, yeah, but visual studio isn't exactly a good posix devel environment.. Jan 17 12:34:31 how dare you mention MS stuff here Jan 17 12:34:48 LinuxCode: his point of view is fair enough though Jan 17 12:34:52 Sts: Nobody cares - these guys are used to VS and they want their VS, even if it will call GCC underneath Jan 17 12:34:58 sorry im sure it is Jan 17 12:35:15 visual studio emulation and ability to push to device is quite decent for development Jan 17 12:35:15 just trying to push foss Jan 17 12:35:18 not perfect, but decent Jan 17 12:35:23 LinuxCode: ick, gnubie Jan 17 12:35:29 ;-p Jan 17 12:35:37 ./whois Stskeeps Jan 17 12:35:50 haha Jan 17 12:35:52 i see Jan 17 12:36:29 you are harming your "foss" by trying to push it Jan 17 12:36:30 RST38h: in any case we can agree it ought to be a lot easier than it is currently :P Jan 17 12:37:33 we really need something like Delphi on the tablets.. Jan 17 12:37:47 or visual basic, heh Jan 17 12:37:53 Geany Jan 17 12:37:56 works like a charm Jan 17 12:38:12 Oh you mean the RAD language... Jan 17 12:38:39 i dislike VB as much as the next one, but it is impressive the amount of apps created with it Jan 17 12:38:50 shitty apps though Jan 17 12:39:02 still, some people are bound to find them useful Jan 17 12:39:03 "Make a tool any idiot can use and only idiots will" Jan 17 12:39:27 idiots buy hardware Jan 17 12:39:28 :P Jan 17 12:39:57 wazd: I installed them and the icons look fine Jan 17 12:41:43 pushing into extras right about now Jan 17 12:42:27 RST38h: we should definately get this on tablet. http://www.bluej.org/about/what.html Jan 17 12:42:39 Jan 17 12:43:25 Pushed Jan 17 12:43:47 Sts: Let Jaffa do that, he loves Java Jan 17 12:44:16 yes, but anyone who loves java cannot possibly love bluej Jan 17 12:44:24 that was used in the first programming course on uni Jan 17 12:44:26 * RST38h pretty much agrees with a quote he has seen somewhere - "If Java is the answer, then what the hell was the question?" Jan 17 12:44:37 then they switched us to emacs + command line Jan 17 12:44:49 .. and then the camps of emacs users vs vim users began Jan 17 12:45:06 Sts: UMD used Unix, command line, emacs, makefiles, and pc (pascal compiler) from the very start Jan 17 12:45:15 Stskeeps: you mean something like glade? Jan 17 12:45:25 aquatix: well, maybe, but with closer integration into the language Jan 17 12:45:29 Sts: Not sure what they use now, tried using Java, but it was a portability nightmare Jan 17 12:48:40 How about portign Kylix? Jan 17 12:50:14 mm, closed source isnt it? Jan 17 12:50:29 Also check these: Jan 17 12:50:30 http://gambas.sourceforge.net/ Jan 17 12:50:54 http://hbasic.sourceforge.net/ Jan 17 12:51:20 http://www.kbasic.com/ Jan 17 12:52:47 mm, neither which is working under armel Jan 17 12:53:27 One more link: Jan 17 12:53:28 http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/ Jan 17 12:53:38 Of course not, you have to make them work under armel Jan 17 12:54:45 kylix is old Jan 17 12:55:00 * aquatix kinda loves delphi though :/ Jan 17 13:00:20 * RST38h likes C++ Builder much more as Pascal isn't very popular language nowadays Jan 17 13:06:00 * GeneralAntilles tries to regain feeling in his fingers. Jan 17 13:06:23 anybody noticed his keyboardbacklight not turning off anymore? Jan 17 13:06:55 can i read the status of the ambient light sensor? Jan 17 13:07:11 GeneralAntilles: starting to see why there needs to be mittens mode for tablets? ;) Jan 17 13:07:13 adv-power should show it to you. Jan 17 13:07:14 / gloves Jan 17 13:07:28 Stskeeps, I don't think I even have any gloves up here. Jan 17 13:07:35 Unless I want to wear my leather work gloves, that is. Jan 17 13:08:32 Sts: NITs need a heater mode where you overclock them and place 'em in your mittens Jan 17 13:09:13 RST38h: it's called disabling power saving Jan 17 13:09:21 +wifi Jan 17 13:09:40 does not heat up that much =) Jan 17 13:09:47 * RST38h has only got his up to 32oC Jan 17 13:10:34 General: You asked for emulators with wazd's icons? Four first ones are in Extras now Jan 17 13:12:24 Ah, cool. Jan 17 13:12:37 Damnit, I hate it when I accidentally buy fat free or reduced fat. Jan 17 13:12:57 I want a grocery store that only carries the fat-filled varieties. Jan 17 13:13:13 GeneralAntilles: how do i get adv-power? Jan 17 13:13:23 x29a, go download it from itT. Jan 17 13:13:37 ah ok, its not in the repos Jan 17 13:13:46 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24905 Jan 17 13:14:17 * RST38h sends General some lard Jan 17 13:26:11 GeneralAntilles: thanks, light sensor is working still, so i dont understand why the keyboard light stays on, maybe its a daemon i installed with some program Jan 17 13:27:00 different question: i want to swapon my external sdcard on default, thought id put it in /etc/fstab, but its ignored, where is the right place? Jan 17 13:30:20 a good list of repositories for diablo ? with a high selection of software available ? Jan 17 13:30:39 ~extras Jan 17 13:31:59 hehe Jan 17 13:32:05 good news Jan 17 13:32:09 how's your insane project going, slonopotamus? Jan 17 13:32:33 i have absolutely working 100% native-built gentoo chroot Jan 17 13:32:36 woo Jan 17 13:32:52 arm-gentoo-linux-gnueabi Jan 17 13:33:02 with march=armv6j Jan 17 13:33:15 and mtune that i can't remember ;) Jan 17 13:33:27 heehe Jan 17 13:34:21 mtune=arm1136jf-s Jan 17 13:35:03 going to publish it tomorrow Jan 17 13:35:15 what kernel do you use, btw? Jan 17 13:35:18 instructions are ready, just need to upload fs image Jan 17 13:35:31 vanilla itos Jan 17 13:35:37 oki Jan 17 13:35:50 i don't want to mess with it Jan 17 13:35:57 Stskeeps, you should really teach the builder not to use the armel target for arch: all packages btw. It would save resources :) Jan 17 13:36:05 qwerty12_N800: yeah.. Jan 17 13:36:20 qwerty12_N800: except the merbuilder never actually sees the package Jan 17 13:36:38 ah :/ Jan 17 13:36:42 qwerty12_N800: i'll add in a feature so it only builds on certain arch Jan 17 13:37:04 cool, that'd help :) Jan 17 13:37:26 anyone interested in gentoo chroot? ;) or will wait until bootable system? Jan 17 13:39:01 fauxmight, ping. i can never find you online Jan 17 13:40:01 wald0, like qwerty12 says: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jan 17 13:40:09 Stskeeps, why you called it insane? Jan 17 13:40:53 slonopotamus: because it's one of those feats not even i would dare to go on :P Jan 17 13:41:19 but im glad you succeeded :) Jan 17 13:41:38 theres quite a few insane projects going on Jan 17 13:42:30 Stskeeps, at least now i have more packages than itos ;) Jan 17 13:43:26 im sure we could make a package generator which could make packages faster than you can compile them ;) Jan 17 13:43:28 slonopotamus: hehe, we have most of ubuntu too though Jan 17 13:44:19 slonopotamus, for as long as first boot/emerge takes 4 months i dont think adoption will be high yet :D Jan 17 13:44:38 but its fucking impressive to have it all in your hand Jan 17 13:45:19 http://xkcd.com/505/ << reminds me of gentoo Jan 17 13:45:45 qwerty12_N800: now with build-x86 and build-armel Jan 17 13:46:00 lcuk, you don't need to cross-build after i publish armel image Jan 17 13:46:11 even cooler then Jan 17 13:46:18 Stskeeps, wicked Jan 17 13:46:24 qwerty12_N800: (not tested) Jan 17 13:46:55 lcuk, and i didn't spend all that time on gentoo ;) Jan 17 13:47:15 heh Jan 17 13:48:09 and even if noone needs it, I need it. now i can easily install various useful stuff Jan 17 13:48:29 slonopotamus, personal motivation is powerful Jan 17 13:52:48 RST38h: ok, I'm done with gg, check your e-mail :) Jan 17 13:54:58 wazd: Got it! It has some artefacts Jan 17 13:55:06 wazd: the corners are white Jan 17 13:55:15 RST38h: ah shit Jan 17 13:55:33 it may be Ubuntu's thumbnail renderer's fault but I doubt it Jan 17 13:55:35 RST38h: forgot to delete the image) Jan 17 13:55:43 Stskeeps, do you compile with -Os or -O2? Jan 17 13:55:44 RST38h: nono, my bad Jan 17 13:55:48 oh, I can do this in a text editor :) Jan 17 13:56:16 done Jan 17 13:56:22 Stskeeps, i couldn't understand what is better for device Jan 17 13:56:43 RST38h: oh) Jan 17 13:56:56 RST38h: is it ok now? Jan 17 13:57:01 yep Jan 17 13:57:37 slonopotamus: depends on if you're embedding things in flash or you can waste space Jan 17 13:57:44 there's always -mthumb for instance Jan 17 13:58:05 wazd: the speaker grill does not scale down well Jan 17 13:58:10 slonopotamus: we just target march=armv5te really Jan 17 13:58:13 looks like a dark square when scaled down Jan 17 13:59:10 wazd: I can edit it out from pngs, but it is probably better to just get rid of it in svg - does not add any useful detail, does not scale well Jan 17 13:59:39 RST38h: agree Jan 17 14:03:40 qwerty12_N800: did we have a torrent client on maemo? Jan 17 14:04:29 Stskeeps, transmission (mostly hildonized by me) Jan 17 14:04:43 extras or extras-devel? Jan 17 14:05:17 extras Jan 17 14:05:21 k Jan 17 14:06:46 ta Jan 17 14:06:51 woo! ports.ubuntu.com is back :) Jan 17 14:08:44 woo Jan 17 14:13:11 RST38h: so, next are Spec and MSX I suppose?) Jan 17 14:14:45 is there any maemo 5 device out yet? Jan 17 14:15:19 sisto, no, expect it Summer 2009. Jan 17 14:15:32 it is summer right now Jan 17 14:15:36 :) Jan 17 14:16:00 i guess you mean when it's summer in the north Jan 17 14:16:41 sisto: no, ofcourse he meant "summer in south africa") Jan 17 14:16:53 As Nokia's located in Finland, yes. Jan 17 14:17:16 can esbox used together with eclispe ganymede? Jan 17 14:17:52 did you read about n810 wimax edition being canceled? Jan 17 14:18:25 sisto, yes, old news. Jan 17 14:18:47 GeneralAntilles: wimax sucks anyway... Jan 17 14:19:06 Well, the technology is actually OK. Jan 17 14:19:15 but it's not widespread Jan 17 14:19:22 The deployment just went really terribly. Jan 17 14:19:23 Well Jan 17 14:19:30 sisto: we have it) Jan 17 14:19:36 You could've made that argument against 3G 2 years ago. Jan 17 14:19:41 But it isn't a very meaningful one. Jan 17 14:19:50 sisto: but the coverage is not so great for now Jan 17 14:20:03 but wimax looks like it will fail Jan 17 14:20:25 sisto: good tech for big cities Jan 17 14:20:37 sisto: fery fast connection Jan 17 14:20:42 *very Jan 17 14:21:42 * wazd is sure that nokia totally hates him :( Jan 17 14:21:58 my opinion is that it's going to be superseded before it's even widely adopted Jan 17 14:22:57 what the hell they don't like in this: http://s50.radikal.ru/i127/0901/12/d5f895cb513a.jpg Jan 17 14:23:30 wazd: ? Jan 17 14:23:55 that's a search widget right? Jan 17 14:23:57 looks fine to me Jan 17 14:24:34 maybe the words are offensive in a some strange language? Jan 17 14:24:40 sisto: nobodys going to pay for a wimax subscription if they already got unlimited data 3g for cheap as peanuts.. Jan 17 14:25:09 glass: Wi-Max works where's no 3G Jan 17 14:25:17 glass: like Moscow Jan 17 14:25:41 wimax is gay Jan 17 14:25:50 lol Jan 17 14:26:07 wazd: russians are slow at doing things... it's ridiculous that moscow doesn't have 3g Jan 17 14:26:48 glass: Why does Nizhnij Novgorod have 3G then? Jan 17 14:26:58 USA also took a long time to adopt 3G Jan 17 14:27:20 but it was faster than Russia Jan 17 14:27:36 RST38h: someone bribed the right persons? Jan 17 14:28:36 i want this with android: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/news/show/92138/the-professional-touch-a-review-of-htc-s-touch-pro-aka-at-t-fuze.html Jan 17 14:28:48 glass: see, now you are starting to see the light Jan 17 14:29:47 glass: someone got enough money to bribe :D Jan 17 14:30:16 wazd: it's not just that, it's also finding the right person to bribe and not just some guy who takes the money Jan 17 14:30:29 In Moscow, the wheels of commerce are too numerous and they all require oiling =) Jan 17 14:30:55 and vodka Jan 17 14:32:46 glass: and bears with balalaika's Jan 17 14:33:09 glass: we have them on the streets as you know) Jan 17 14:34:21 yeh.. i've been to karelia in mid '90s Jan 17 14:35:19 * wazd just downloaded "Saw V" Jan 17 14:35:47 wazd: did you pay for it? Jan 17 14:35:55 :) Jan 17 14:36:11 sisto: nope, why should I :) Jan 17 14:36:16 haha Jan 17 14:36:36 movie's should be GPLd Jan 17 14:37:23 well, movies like "saw" should for sure :) Jan 17 14:58:17 wb meiz Jan 17 14:58:44 thanks Jan 17 14:59:24 Mer really brought new life to this old machine :P Jan 17 14:59:51 this is way faster now (i was using gnome) Jan 17 14:59:54 hehe Jan 17 15:01:47 so running midori and xchat, eh? ;) Jan 17 15:02:04 epiphany-gecko and xchat-gnome Jan 17 15:02:09 hehe Jan 17 15:03:41 in 800x600 or? Jan 17 15:04:16 1600x1200 now Jan 17 15:04:22 k Jan 17 15:04:28 themes prolly look like crap :P Jan 17 15:04:56 yep, but web-sites fit better :) Jan 17 15:05:09 hehe Jan 17 15:06:45 i wonder why ubuntu-guys have ported vlc, but still no mplayer Jan 17 15:11:52 mplayer is a bit more difficult in terms of legal things i think Jan 17 15:12:15 Meizirkki, for ARM? Jan 17 15:12:20 lo johnx Jan 17 15:12:32 hey Stskeeps Jan 17 15:12:38 johnx_:yep Jan 17 15:13:03 johnx_: i've put x86 image up for kicks now Jan 17 15:13:10 I'm not so sure if it's a legal thing... Jan 17 15:13:18 seems to boot without too much difficulty Jan 17 15:13:35 how's it look at different resolutions? Jan 17 15:13:45 check my picasa Jan 17 15:13:46 http://irczilla.net/mer/ Jan 17 15:13:47 as well Jan 17 15:14:24 http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/Mer Jan 17 15:15:38 roope_: wallpaper looks absolutely stunning on 1600x1200 :P Jan 17 15:16:08 johnx_: also good fact to know, 770 backspace kills Xorg too Jan 17 15:16:42 I was looking at X keymap handing a little bit Jan 17 15:16:45 I have an idea to try Jan 17 15:17:39 it is a possibility that cos its a minbase, we dont have console-common and such Jan 17 15:18:24 nope. I debootstrapped normally in ubuntu/zaurus and installed everything up to a full dev environment, then added hildon-desktop-env Jan 17 15:18:35 same weird keymap issue Jan 17 15:18:38 johnx_: also i've added item "Make hildon-desktop-env use a configuration file to determine wether it needs to show cursor or not (useful for x86) " Jan 17 15:19:00 (just catching you up :P) Jan 17 15:19:17 possibly we should borrow some machine detection scripts / conf files from angstrom/OE since they have it figured out on a wide variety of machines Jan 17 15:19:32 possibly Jan 17 15:19:45 h-i-m doesn't crash anything on x86... Jan 17 15:20:07 X keymaps: I think it has to do with the x server having reference to a US keymap thus causing the auto HAL keymap to not be used. Jan 17 15:20:10 Meizirkki: can i see your xorg.conf? Jan 17 15:20:16 in /etc/X11/xorg.conf Jan 17 15:20:25 anyways, I can test easily Jan 17 15:20:28 it's empty in x86 Jan 17 15:20:31 Meizirkki: k Jan 17 15:20:35 right :) Jan 17 15:20:40 johnx: exactly Jan 17 15:20:54 johnx_: that's a possibility Jan 17 15:21:03 maybe removing the reference would help Jan 17 15:21:13 hal/keymap problem - from what i've seen Jan 17 15:21:14 just got in the door, have to get things booted :) Jan 17 15:22:49 (xorg.conf comes from imager, btw) Jan 17 15:27:50 * b-man wonders how horrible gimp would look in mer Jan 17 15:28:06 floating things wouldnt go that well, yeah Jan 17 15:28:06 :P Jan 17 15:28:27 you could force it to use dialog windows ... Jan 17 15:28:35 that is a big problem of matchbox IMHO :/ Jan 17 15:32:29 * RST38h yawns Jan 17 15:32:36 this audio problem will kill me Jan 17 15:45:42 andre__: any chance we can get a 'Mer' product in bugs.maemo.org? (like browser extras, canola) Jan 17 15:45:56 we're getting organized now and with every software there's bugs, so :) Jan 17 15:46:11 yes, i'd love to set that up for you :) Jan 17 15:46:28 i just got home, will ping you back later today, if that's ok Jan 17 15:46:35 yes, of course Jan 17 15:47:05 in http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint we are also listing bugs that were reported to maemo.org components as part of our development process now Jan 17 15:48:19 andre__, what, you didn't hear? Sunday afternoon you're required to do at least 8 hours of work in 3 hours unpaid. :P Jan 17 15:48:31 eeks Jan 17 15:48:41 isn't it saturday today or did i sleep 24 hours too long? Jan 17 15:48:41 :P Jan 17 15:48:59 GeneralAntilles: shush... good that it's only saturday so i got one day to prepare Jan 17 15:49:38 ups Jan 17 15:49:45 * GeneralAntilles lost track of the days. Jan 17 15:49:59 Or typo? Jan 17 15:50:02 dunno what you guys are on about. it's sunday here... Jan 17 15:50:06 Which one sounds less like I'm losing my mind. :P Jan 17 15:50:11 how do I lock an ubuntu desktop? Jan 17 15:50:27 System -> lock screen Jan 17 15:50:28 don't see an option Jan 17 15:50:33 THANKS =) Jan 17 15:50:47 :) Jan 17 16:05:52 lot of qwerty12 here tonight (!) Jan 17 16:06:07 I've been cloned :-) Jan 17 16:07:04 Need any clone killing? :P Jan 17 16:07:26 No thanks, after IRC, I'm taking over the world :P Jan 17 16:07:47 wazd: could you create a 800x600 256-color splash screen with the logo btw? (for x86 splash) Jan 17 16:10:25 oh BTW, got a hands on with that new sony vaio P thing :) Jan 17 16:11:15 cool! :D Jan 17 16:11:31 who was the performance? Jan 17 16:11:46 I can never get a feel for performance on a vista computer Jan 17 16:11:50 but it was surprisingly nice to type on Jan 17 16:11:53 hehe Jan 17 16:12:17 I don't use vista except at computer stores so I don't know what happens fast and what happens slow Jan 17 16:12:21 didn't seem too quick though Jan 17 16:12:45 Betcha it'd fly with Mer. Jan 17 16:13:08 heh, it'd fly with lxde or xfce/compiz Jan 17 16:13:18 probably would be just as fast as XP in gnome/compiz Jan 17 16:13:36 and with a decent touch-nub and a 1680x720 screen I think it calls for a normal desktop Jan 17 16:13:57 Is it touchscreen? Jan 17 16:14:04 don't think so Jan 17 16:14:21 has an IBM-style trackpoint and 'mouse buttons' on the front edge, below the space bar Jan 17 16:14:43 I haven't been paying any attention at all except to laugh at the spoofs of Sony's advertising on Engadget. Jan 17 16:14:54 I think in width it's almost as wide as an hp mini 1000 which explains the keyboard Jan 17 16:15:29 GeneralAntilles, have you seen the original video that came from on sony's Japanese website? Jan 17 16:15:32 It looks like what a set of colored pencils would come in. Jan 17 16:15:36 Nope Jan 17 16:15:46 well, you've seen the original pic, right? Jan 17 16:15:55 Yeah Jan 17 16:16:49 * b-man finds a really good connection with 300kb/s - taking less than 20 minutes to download gnome :) Jan 17 16:16:50 they were running the video that pic comes from on a billboard-sized screen downtown tonight :) Jan 17 16:17:02 Ha Jan 17 16:17:04 b-man: hehe, walking outside in the snow for open wifi? Jan 17 16:17:05 :P Jan 17 16:17:26 no, in my room on my bed Jan 17 16:17:36 Stskeeps, I need: Product name; Product Description; Component names and their descriptions; versions; milestones. Jan 17 16:17:38 See https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Canola Jan 17 16:18:06 whats a good initscript where i can a swapon command since /etc/fstab seems to be ignored? Jan 17 16:18:29 Stskeeps, Default QA Contact would be something like "general-bugs@mer.garage.bugs" that people could add to their email watchlist in case they are interested in mer bugmail Jan 17 16:19:07 andre__: k - writing up Jan 17 16:20:20 andre__: and it's alright to start out with an initial setup as we are not very split up in components just yet and then alter as comes? Jan 17 16:20:31 Stskeeps, sure, totally fine Jan 17 16:20:44 Stskeeps, probably answer my questions by either pastebin or email to aklapper at openismus dot com Jan 17 16:20:49 yep Jan 17 16:22:19 gnome allrety 79% done downloading at this time -- fast :) Jan 17 16:22:43 Stskeeps, dont most desktop versions use 1024? Jan 17 16:22:54 hm, nobody an idea? Jan 17 16:22:57 S Jan 17 16:23:04 lcuk: usplash recommends 800x600 Jan 17 16:23:23 reasonable enough Jan 17 16:24:48 Corsac: will rcS get executed against the shell? Jan 17 16:25:10 x29a: that was just a typo sorry :) Jan 17 16:25:16 oh lol Jan 17 16:27:02 x29a, where are you keeping swap? on a partition? in a file? which card? if it's a card you remove sometimes you'll want to have maemo handle swapon/swapoff as part of the card mount/umount procedure Jan 17 16:27:13 and in that case there is a script in /usr/sbin/ called for that Jan 17 16:27:44 Stskeeps, hmm, my idea about trying to make HAL handle the keymap doesn't seem to have helped... Jan 17 16:27:49 johnx_: hmm Jan 17 16:27:50 johnx_: thanks, its a partition at /dev/mmcblk1p4 and im running my system off the external card, so i wont remove it Jan 17 16:27:58 johnx_: do we have 'kbd' driver in xorg at all? Jan 17 16:28:25 Hello Mer developpers :) Jan 17 16:28:30 evening Jan 17 16:28:41 x29a, then put it in whatever late-stage init script you want or make your own :) Jan 17 16:28:58 good to know that you never sleep no matter of your timezone, hehe Jan 17 16:29:00 hey zenvoid Jan 17 16:29:43 Stskeeps, yeah we do...but it doesn't matter if we specify it in xorg.conf. X11 has a lot of new auto-detect stuff that's kinda new... Jan 17 16:29:52 johnx_: all script in /etc/rcX.d/ will get executed, right? so i just put it in rc5 or so Jan 17 16:30:34 x29a, head /etc/inittab will tell you which runlevel the tablet uses by default. it's debian so probably rc2 Jan 17 16:30:47 ah ok, thank you Jan 17 16:30:55 rc2 when booting without charger, rc5 when booting with charger plugged in Jan 17 16:31:12 qwerty12, iiiinteresting :) I did not know that Jan 17 16:31:18 Or rather, having the tablet powered up with the charger plugged in Jan 17 16:32:03 johnx_, heh, I only realised when I saw fanoush's thing to show the current process init is starting :) Jan 17 16:33:48 andre__: sent Jan 17 16:33:51 I'm uploading some wallpapers (including the one in the screenshots that I've made). And I hope to actually start doing something more technically challenging than wallpapers soon... (it's been a busy week) Jan 17 16:34:23 http://zenvoid.org/wallpapers/coiled-snake-1_wallpaper-800x480.jpg Jan 17 16:34:39 qwerty12: so i best put it in /etc/init.d and symlink out of both rc levels or? Jan 17 16:34:39 http://zenvoid.org/wallpapers/signs-of-autumn_wallpapers-800x480.jpg Jan 17 16:34:57 http://zenvoid.org/wallpapers/laguna-campillo-4_wallpaper-800x480.jpg Jan 17 16:34:59 zenvoid: hehe, own artwork? Jan 17 16:35:01 etc... Jan 17 16:35:02 x29a, yeah, that's how I'd do it Jan 17 16:35:18 zenvoid, are those redistributable? Jan 17 16:35:24 Stskeeps: oh, yes, own photos Jan 17 16:35:30 zenvoid: impressive :) Jan 17 16:35:31 O_o Jan 17 16:35:33 wow Jan 17 16:35:39 free, Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Jan 17 16:36:08 johnx_: wallpapers are referred to in .desktop files in /usr/share/wallpapers or how was it? Jan 17 16:36:23 there is a default wallpaper in the theme Jan 17 16:36:40 just pondering how the hildon wallpaper chooser gets it from Jan 17 16:37:14 Stskeeps, it does Jan 17 16:37:25 *is Jan 17 16:37:26 /usr/share/backgrounds Jan 17 16:37:33 close enough Jan 17 16:37:37 /usr/share/backgrounds Jan 17 16:37:39 heh Jan 17 16:38:06 zenvoid: you're more than welcome to package up a wallpaper pack Jan 17 16:38:25 I think that the default wallpaper is in mentioned in the theme config file... Jan 17 16:38:42 Stskeeps: OK Jan 17 16:39:11 just images placed somewhere and .desktop files pointing to them in /usr/share/backgrounds Jan 17 16:41:24 qwerty12: #! /bin/sh swapon /dev/mmcblk1p4 should do the trick or? Jan 17 16:41:43 hm, did i forget +x? Jan 17 16:41:55 Sounds simple enough to work. Jan 17 16:42:03 Stskeeps, done. also gave you editbugs and canconfirm permissions Jan 17 16:42:12 andre__: thank you Jan 17 16:42:16 andre__: much appreciated :) Jan 17 16:42:17 ah, yes, the .desktop file (wow, it is amazing how fast I forgot things...) Jan 17 16:42:27 Speech! Speech! Jan 17 16:44:03 for completeness of this discussion, selection of current desktop is stored here ;) /home/user/.osso/hildon-desktop/home-background.conf Jan 17 16:46:23 http://zenvoid.org/wallpapers/bird-orgy_wallpaper-800x480.jpg Jan 17 16:46:38 woah Jan 17 16:46:43 http://zenvoid.org/wallpapers/unnatural-nature_wallpaper-800x480.jpg Jan 17 16:46:54 http://zenvoid.org/wallpapers/purple-flower_wallpaper-800x480.jpg Jan 17 16:47:34 I'll upload more in that directory when having some free time Jan 17 16:47:57 do you travel a lot or is this around where you live? Jan 17 16:48:06 they're all gorgeous... Jan 17 16:48:46 johnx_: thanks!!! :D most of them are from madrid/spain Jan 17 16:49:06 johnx_: I would love to travel to japan some day, hehe Jan 17 16:49:31 http://zenvoid.org/wallpapers/laguna-campillo-4_wallpaper-800x480.jpg Jan 17 16:49:33 hmm...maybe I should dig through my flickr account and see if there's anything worth cropping to 800x480 Jan 17 16:50:20 btw, where is the xorg.conf on maemo? could i drive the display with 1024x768? Jan 17 16:50:28 x29a, no Jan 17 16:50:29 the original (full res) photos are in my web pages Jan 17 16:50:38 itd interpolate and get blurry but thats ok Jan 17 16:51:00 johnx_: i want to vnc on a 1024x768 system, the vncviewer doesnt support scaling and i hate scrolling Jan 17 16:51:03 x29a, it's a framebuffer limitation Jan 17 16:51:08 ah Jan 17 16:51:19 in fact it's a limitation at every level :) Jan 17 16:51:28 so i have to get tightvnc running on the device Jan 17 16:51:39 or $client that supports scaling Jan 17 16:51:41 xserver, framebuffer, lcd controller (most likely), and the lcd itself Jan 17 16:52:42 if i find a .deb of tightvnc built for arm-arch, that should work right? Jan 17 16:53:14 not necessarily: if you had an armel deb of tightvnc that was built against the right versions of the libraries you'd be fine Jan 17 16:53:41 but maemo doesn't really line up with any debian release. newer versions of some libs, older versions of others Jan 17 16:57:45 i see, bummer Jan 17 16:58:09 do you have scratchbox? Jan 17 16:58:19 might not be too hard to build... Jan 17 16:58:21 to build it my own? Jan 17 16:58:28 no, i didnt set anything up yet Jan 17 16:58:38 might be just the right moment for it though ;0 Jan 17 16:58:42 or you could try unpacking a debian armel .deb of it and running it :) Jan 17 16:58:50 who knows? it might "just work" Jan 17 16:59:19 zenvoid, heh...the problem with making backgrounds out of my photos is finding 1) decent photos 2) that I happened to shoot in landscape :) Jan 17 17:01:40 johnx_: hehe... my photos were all very crappy until I've changed my camera and purchased a set of very good objetives Jan 17 17:02:21 I think I'm starting to develop a better sense of 'what makes a good picture' so it might be time to buy a better camera soon Jan 17 17:04:35 johnx_: if you have good objectives, sometimes you'll get a nice looking photo, even my mistake ;-) Jan 17 17:04:42 johnx_, im usually happy that i manage to get the subject in the picture Jan 17 17:04:55 my youngest takes better pics than me :D Jan 17 17:04:55 I grabbed a couple, but 2mp is starting to limit me I think Jan 17 17:05:08 hubble uses 1mpixel Jan 17 17:05:39 johnx_: the mp are not important Jan 17 17:06:01 johnx_: is much important the quality of the glass Jan 17 17:06:03 quality of the sensor Jan 17 17:06:22 s/2mp/7 year old camera/ :) Jan 17 17:06:50 get a newer one, if for nothing more than faster processing and larger lcd on the back Jan 17 17:07:00 johnx_: think of a HIFI system in wich you attach a set of $10 speakers Jan 17 17:07:36 johnx_: the photograph pass though the optical system in the camera Jan 17 17:07:48 I do know a little bit about camera stuff. I know the lens and quality of the sensor are more important than raw megapixels Jan 17 17:08:02 but even the resolution limit is keeping me from cropping Jan 17 17:08:05 johnx_: ye Jan 17 17:08:28 anyways, neither hear nor there :) Jan 17 17:09:12 they used digital for the first time to take presidents' portait this year didnt they Jan 17 17:10:26 also, many (I think most) consumer cameras make interpolation; this means that if you use a good camera with 2mp, and enlarge the photo in the gimp (or photoshopt), you'll get better details than a photo taken with a bad 5mp camera Jan 17 17:11:05 digital zoom, right? Jan 17 17:11:10 it was the case for my old finepix camera, 5mp pictures that were 2mp quality Jan 17 17:11:25 *without* using digital zoom Jan 17 17:11:57 huh Jan 17 17:12:10 my coolpix is almost certainly guilty then :) Jan 17 17:12:22 anyways, think I'll do a crop job on these 4: http://flickr.com/photos/johnxx/sets/72157612680444530/ Jan 17 17:12:24 coolpix are decent Jan 17 17:12:29 afaik Jan 17 17:12:44 coolpix e2500 circa 2001/2002 I believe Jan 17 17:13:38 zenvoid, isn't it amazing how that works? Jan 17 17:13:51 Get a half-way decent camera and suddenly you get half-way decent pictures. Jan 17 17:14:35 GeneralAntilles: btw, for pushing inside maemo.org, blockers of infrastructure (ferenc suggested this so they could be requirements for next iteration), https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=3319&group_id=841&atid=3136 , https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=3320&group_id=841&atid=3136 Jan 17 17:14:51 GeneralAntilles: hehehe, most professional photographers will kill you if you say that to them ;-) Jan 17 17:14:52 we'd like to get away from launchpad, so :P Jan 17 17:15:08 zenvoid, genius transcends equipment, of course, but still. ;) Jan 17 17:15:17 join a good racing team, start winning races Jan 17 17:15:51 lcuk: yeah, that's also true Jan 17 17:17:19 having the right tools in your hands allows creativity to come out easier Jan 17 17:17:40 johnx_: I like your photos, try to get a DSLR, the price has been dropped recently, they are much affordable now than they used to be Jan 17 17:17:57 in a couple months maybe :) Jan 17 17:18:21 qwerty12: jffs after docpurge is 146M btw Jan 17 17:18:37 (that is with sumtool) Jan 17 17:18:46 lcuk, for a long time though the camera wasn't the thing limiting my photos :) Jan 17 17:18:53 heh johnx Jan 17 17:19:37 other thing about taking good photos: it helps to be somewhere worth taking pictures of :) Jan 17 17:19:39 im always too quick, see something nice point n shoot and end up with streaks several miles long Jan 17 17:20:08 tracy bailey downstairs though takes good pics :) Jan 17 17:20:18 yup, relax, breath out, then shoot a couple shots Jan 17 17:20:18 johnx_: is there anything in Xorg.0.log on why it dies btw? Jan 17 17:20:35 sig 11 Jan 17 17:20:36 :) cant wait for n900 Jan 17 17:20:45 johnx_: any backtrace? Jan 17 17:20:55 0: /usr/bin/X11/X(xorg_backtrace+0x28) [0xe8530] Jan 17 17:21:00 didn't even need pastebin Jan 17 17:21:02 mental note: ensure set as background is one option Jan 17 17:21:13 johnx_: heh, that looks odd :P Jan 17 17:22:43 i'll poke at it a bit more... Jan 17 17:23:00 i will do once my tablet has fullfilled it's Transmission-related duties Jan 17 17:23:01 :P Jan 17 17:23:02 I think we might have more than one keymap / input problem ... Jan 17 17:23:18 DSLR is a totally different shooting experience. Jan 17 17:23:35 You think 4GB is enough until you start shooting at 3 or 4 FPS Jan 17 17:24:04 GeneralAntilles, and then you try and go back and cull that to post on flickr O_o; Jan 17 17:24:20 Ha Jan 17 17:24:30 A friend of mine just got back from Cuba with 17,000 photos. Jan 17 17:24:39 It's been 3 weeks, he's through 3,500. Jan 17 17:25:03 and shooting RAW pictures takes some place to Jan 17 17:25:05 Cuba!? : shutters: Jan 17 17:25:10 its things like this that make me wonder how border partol people can examine all digital devices Jan 17 17:25:30 b-man, the first student exchange program in a lotta years. Jan 17 17:25:36 lcuk, if you look suspicious, they just keep your device Jan 17 17:25:52 even more worrysome Jan 17 17:26:11 anyway, vanishing ive got stuff to mangle some more Jan 17 17:26:21 the fact that I'll have to sort/delete/upload later is the main thing that keeps me from trying to get more than 4-5 shots of one thing Jan 17 17:26:35 lcuk, good luck mangling your stuff Jan 17 17:26:52 GeneralAntilles: i don't think i would like to be in a country controled by a dictator ;p Jan 17 17:27:01 s/mangle/cleanup/ Jan 17 17:27:03 lcuk: they just make a copy for later Jan 17 17:27:30 b-man, LIVE in a country. ;) Jan 17 17:27:32 corsac, if everyperson on the flight has a similar digital archive thats gonna take some time Jan 17 17:27:48 yup Jan 17 17:27:56 but they still have your data Jan 17 17:28:23 and be sure they know how to do data-mining and text-mining stuff :) Jan 17 17:28:39 i dont mind that, i just wanna know where they get automated backup devices from that work nice and quickly and store enough info Jan 17 17:28:51 GeneralAntilles: i don't think i would survive for a week in cuba :) Jan 17 17:28:59 all the different formats and connections and devices etc Jan 17 17:29:04 b-man: you don't know spanish? ;) Jan 17 17:29:13 no Jan 17 17:29:16 gah though im not here Jan 17 17:29:23 lcuk: if you do know, maybe they'll hire you :) Jan 17 17:29:26 b-man, you would if you were with a student exchange program. ;) Jan 17 17:29:43 hehe Jan 17 17:29:47 johnx_: putting out 0.6 image tonight of 770, n8x0, x86, so we have something to base things on Jan 17 17:29:55 great Jan 17 17:30:33 * b-man would probibly get in truble from speaking agenst the government ;) Jan 17 17:30:38 ok, confirming that the keyboard causing x server crash is different than the keymap not being quite right Jan 17 17:30:57 b-man: what was the status on the installer? did you fix the bootmenu item thing? Jan 17 17:31:17 working on that now ;) Jan 17 17:31:20 alright Jan 17 17:31:32 would like to take that along in 0.6 so Jan 17 17:32:07 ok :) Jan 17 17:32:22 oh wow Jan 17 17:32:29 think I'm close :) Jan 17 17:32:34 woo Jan 17 17:32:48 woho!! Jan 17 17:33:17 johnx_: 10 bucks that when you fix backspace and enter, 'a' starts killing it Jan 17 17:33:19 on n800, with usb keyboard plugged in, ctrl-c from matchbox-keyboard works fine. without the keyboard plugged in ctrl-c from matchbox-keyboard crashes the x server Jan 17 17:33:36 missing keyboard description maybe? Jan 17 17:33:47 or that we should use evdev instead of kbd Jan 17 17:34:10 Stskeeps, interesting note: we *are* using evdev I believe Jan 17 17:34:14 no, kbd Jan 17 17:34:20 hang on a sec :) Jan 17 17:34:22 in xorg.conf Jan 17 17:34:25 right Jan 17 17:34:36 but it autodetects the keypad with hal and uses evdev to handle it Jan 17 17:34:49 ok Jan 17 17:34:53 * johnx_ verifies Jan 17 17:35:03 * Stskeeps looks how kulve&co did it Jan 17 17:35:23 Stskeeps, do they have n810s? Jan 17 17:35:48 johnx_: it dies on n810 too i think too though? not sure Jan 17 17:36:08 does it? Jan 17 17:36:25 Meizirkki: ? Jan 17 17:36:55 if so that means the n810's keyboard isn't getting handled by kbd either Jan 17 17:37:25 anyone know if its possible to extract the files from within a vmware image Jan 17 17:37:38 without needing to install vmwar Jan 17 17:37:55 lcuk, maybe with qemu-img? Jan 17 17:38:10 might have to convert it, then mount it Jan 17 17:38:48 just as much, ill just reinstall vmware but it plays hell with the network stack Jan 17 17:40:00 Xorg dies when trying to backspace or enter using h-i-m on n810: yes Jan 17 17:40:20 FOUND IT Jan 17 17:40:22 Meizirkki, can you install matchbox-keyboard and test it for me? Jan 17 17:40:24 #&^*&^#%*# Jan 17 17:40:50 jonhx_: yes Jan 17 17:40:54 second Jan 17 17:41:47 johnx_: we dont have xkb files for rx-44 either Jan 17 17:42:20 fdi ones that is Jan 17 17:42:59 were there fdi xkb files needed for the rx34 as well? Jan 17 17:43:16 dont think so Jan 17 17:43:20 just su-8w Jan 17 17:43:30 b-man: i think you can remove adduser user and passwd user from installer. (now when there's a first-boot-wizard) Jan 17 17:45:57 Meizirkki: ok :) Jan 17 17:48:27 * Meizirkki boots to Mer Jan 17 17:49:14 Meizirkki, does your the hardware backspace key on your keyboard work in mer in X? Jan 17 17:49:33 johnx_: yep Jan 17 17:49:42 huh Jan 17 17:49:52 hw-keyboard works well Jan 17 17:50:30 gah! this problem is so freaking odd Jan 17 17:50:38 Meizirkki: what happens when you ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb and rm the xorg.conf? Jan 17 17:50:42 or just mv it away Jan 17 17:50:51 second.. Jan 17 17:50:59 and then try to boot it Jan 17 17:51:36 touch /etc/X11/xorg.conf so its just empty and not just non-existing Jan 17 17:52:13 johnx_: backspace from matchbox-keyboard freezes Xorg too... Jan 17 17:52:35 * Meizirkki pulls the battery off... Jan 17 17:52:36 freezes or crashes? Jan 17 17:52:48 freezez like it does with h-i-m Jan 17 17:52:59 johnx_: crashes Jan 17 17:53:06 cos of fb_update_mode i guess Jan 17 17:53:06 *phew* Jan 17 17:53:55 if we had another problem I would probably just go crazy Jan 17 17:54:10 Stskeeps: can i do ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb1 before rebooting? (will i have to do it every boot?) Jan 17 17:54:28 Meizirkki: er. Jan 17 17:54:29 sec Jan 17 17:55:16 Meizirkki, you have a wireless router, right? might want to setup sshd to avoid doing a battery-pull, reboot cycle Jan 17 17:55:27 johnx_: network-manager dies along with xorg Jan 17 17:55:27 especially if you want to do testing for this bug :) Jan 17 17:55:29 it's silly that way Jan 17 17:55:42 as in, connection gets shut down Jan 17 17:55:56 yeah, might want to set it up in /etc/network/interfaces then Jan 17 17:56:07 (for testing, not for the end product) Jan 17 17:57:22 i'll test first with empty xorg.conf Jan 17 17:58:59 it probably wont work but hey :P Jan 17 17:59:19 interesting note: my hardware usb keyboard is also pulled in by HAL it seems Jan 17 18:00:45 yeah, that kbd entry in xorg.conf isn't responsible for anything Jan 17 18:00:51 doesn't matter if it's there or not Jan 17 18:00:53 k Jan 17 18:02:41 (II) Cannot locate a core keyboard device. Jan 17 18:02:51 (II) The server relies on HAL to provide the list of input devices. If no devices become available, reconfigure HAL or disable AllowEmptyInput. Jan 17 18:03:15 worth a shot Jan 17 18:03:32 err...wait, nm :) Jan 17 18:03:43 Stskeeps: xserver did not come up without xorg.conf: Failed to load module "fbdev", module does not exist. Jan 17 18:03:45 k Jan 17 18:04:18 with fbdev installed, i think it would come up Jan 17 18:05:20 what i think it weird is that ESC key is tab at the same time O_o Jan 17 18:06:23 yeah, there is possibly (likely) more than one keymap problem Jan 17 18:06:52 hmm Jan 17 18:06:54 johnx_: Jan 17 18:06:54 Jan 17 18:07:07 johnx_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/309785 Jan 17 18:07:20 but that's simple, one time, it's ESC key. two times in a row, it's Tab :) Jan 17 18:07:44 "Just in case someone gets bitten by this in the meantime, there is a workaround. Pressing any key on a real keyboard fixes it for the session." Jan 17 18:07:54 you have to be kidding me Jan 17 18:08:34 interesting Jan 17 18:08:39 does it exhibit that for you? Jan 17 18:08:57 will test again, one sec Jan 17 18:09:19 i guess they might mean real keyboard -attached- Jan 17 18:09:32 it does not matter if i press some hw-keys, h-i-m and matchbox-kb will still crash X Jan 17 18:10:05 ahaha Jan 17 18:10:11 Stskeeps, ok, yeah. same bug Jan 17 18:10:17 fair enough Jan 17 18:10:27 i'll annotate that on our sprint then Jan 17 18:10:44 there's a caveat though: pressing a hardware key on a normally mapped keyboard fixes the problem for as long as that keyboard is plugged in Jan 17 18:11:06 so if you press first at HIM with keyboard plugged it, it dies Jan 17 18:11:13 yes Jan 17 18:11:30 ? Jan 17 18:11:58 Meizirkki, the N810's keyboard isn't supported by X in the same way most other keyboards are I believe Jan 17 18:12:04 ok Jan 17 18:13:29 johnx_: well then, problem solved,we wait for xorg/jaunty to update it :P Jan 17 18:13:53 yeah. suppose so. we don't want to start messing with all of xorg I think Jan 17 18:14:26 so hit a hardware key before hitting the bksp in h-i-m? Jan 17 18:14:56 r2d2rogers: doesn't work on n810 at all Jan 17 18:15:03 fun Jan 17 18:15:20 gotta get groceries... I'll check in later... Jan 17 18:15:22 won't help on 770 or n8x0 unless the key you hit is on a usb keyboard and you leave it plugged in Jan 17 18:15:25 have a good weekend Jan 17 18:15:34 'later r2d2rogers Jan 17 18:15:52 ok Jan 17 18:16:04 the entire imaging phase of 770, n8x0, x86 is 3 hours 52 minutes Jan 17 18:16:18 guys who reported that using x86 or arm? Jan 17 18:16:36 i can use h-i-m on x86 with no prob Jan 17 18:16:56 Meizirkki: enter and backspace didnt work and you possibly used hardware keyboard before Jan 17 18:17:10 Meizirkki, unplug your keyboard :) Jan 17 18:17:15 ok Jan 17 18:18:01 still doesn't crsh Jan 17 18:18:38 hard to use h-i-m without touchscreen ;P Jan 17 18:18:48 hehe Jan 17 18:18:57 mouse :P Jan 17 18:19:14 Meizirkki, can you launch matchbox-keyboard and try it? Jan 17 18:19:22 also, is your keyboard usb or ps2? Jan 17 18:19:32 on x86 Jan 17 18:19:37 usb Jan 17 18:19:41 hmm Jan 17 18:20:14 sec i'll install matchbox-kb Jan 17 18:20:21 thanks :) Jan 17 18:20:29 * Stskeeps checks if the new version from 2 hours ago was compiled for xorg yet Jan 17 18:20:40 seems so Jan 17 18:22:02 * Stskeeps tries to update Jan 17 18:22:08 if the new version works, im gonna remake the images Jan 17 18:22:30 All of them? :/ Jan 17 18:22:31 would be so great to have this sorted. I was soooo freaking sure it was the same bug we found before :/ Jan 17 18:22:49 qwerty12: just 3 hours :) Jan 17 18:22:53 almost 4 :P Jan 17 18:23:14 Stskeeps, hehe, you must have a lot of patience :D Jan 17 18:23:40 qwerty12: no, exams to read up for :P Jan 17 18:23:47 so i am occupied while waiting Jan 17 18:23:59 johnx_: seems like new branch is out Jan 17 18:24:02 im testing Jan 17 18:24:16 johnx_: matchbox-keyboard did not crash X on x86 Jan 17 18:25:03 Stskeeps: i just ran imager, so that means i have the new one? Jan 17 18:25:11 Meizirkki, thanks for testing. :) I still give it 90%+ odds that the bug Stskeeps found is the one causing this Jan 17 18:25:26 ok Jan 17 18:25:32 Meizirkki: entirely possible Jan 17 18:25:54 Stskeeps: i am not using the latest ones Jan 17 18:26:01 upgrading now... Jan 17 18:28:21 * Meizirkki reboots to see if X dies when no hardware-buttons are pressed at all Jan 17 18:28:33 johnx_: i can backspace! Jan 17 18:28:39 w00t! Jan 17 18:28:48 Stskeeps, this is already compiled for ARM? Jan 17 18:28:56 yes Jan 17 18:29:13 also this means people should be able to use matchbox-keyboard with roxterm Jan 17 18:29:24 sub-optimal, but at least it's something Jan 17 18:30:10 * qwerty12_N800 wants gdk issue fixed so he can use h-i-m in roxterm Jan 17 18:31:10 woo! Jan 17 18:31:18 h-i-m works now Jan 17 18:31:22 on n810 Jan 17 18:31:22 woo! Jan 17 18:31:34 heh Jan 17 18:31:43 maybe it does with enter and stuff on x86 too then Jan 17 18:31:46 we found the problem right before it would have gone away on it's own :) Jan 17 18:32:07 johnx_ / Stskeeps: h-i-m crashes X on x86 too Jan 17 18:32:16 crashed you mean Jan 17 18:32:22 should be fixed now Jan 17 18:32:23 yep Jan 17 18:32:24 Meizirkki, good. that makes me feel better about the world :) Jan 17 18:32:47 right then, i'm going to build new 0.6 images then Jan 17 18:33:21 and I'm going to sleep Jan 17 18:33:24 nini Jan 17 18:33:26 work tomorrow :/ Jan 17 18:34:34 hah, a time where it doesn't help living in the future :p Jan 17 18:34:43 * Meizirkki dist-upgrades x86 one too. Jan 17 18:34:49 qwerty12_N800, nah, it's just that I work sundays Jan 17 18:36:24 johnx_, ah :/, i thought it would be monday because you said before that it's already sunday :/ Jan 17 18:36:45 right now, sunday 3:36 AM Jan 17 18:36:51 I'm only ~9 hours ahead of you Jan 17 18:37:20 Ah :) Jan 17 18:37:29 phew, ESC/Tab key still works :P Jan 17 18:37:50 it's nice to have Tab key in terminal :) Jan 17 18:38:19 Tab-completion is for the weak! Jan 17 18:38:24 * qwerty12_N800 is weak Jan 17 18:38:50 Meizirkki: how did you (and which one) bind a key to tab? /me is need! Jan 17 18:39:19 x29a: Tab and ESC are completely same key in mer :P Jan 17 18:39:42 meh, maemo plain simple standard here Jan 17 18:39:56 x29a, search itt, its been done before Jan 17 18:40:21 ok, just thought hed spoil me and tell me directly Jan 17 18:40:25 nice try i guess, sry Jan 17 18:40:59 x29a, it really is different between mer and maemo :) Jan 17 18:42:17 hmm Jan 17 18:42:26 i mightt have the explanation why maemopad and such are unthemed Jan 17 18:42:26 sec Jan 17 18:42:55 johnx_: your hildon-desktop-env in bzr? Jan 17 18:43:21 yeah, bzr is latest Jan 17 18:43:24 k Jan 17 18:43:28 I always export from that for packages Jan 17 18:44:23 * Stskeeps reboots into mer Jan 17 18:56:09 BTW, I have just fixed a fat, big audio problem in VGBA Jan 17 18:56:32 Does that means sounds will be louder? Jan 17 18:56:41 woo! is it related to sound playing even when it's disabled? Jan 17 18:59:01 General: no, it means sounds will be righter. Jan 17 18:59:04 =) Jan 17 18:59:20 johnx: is it playing when disabled? really? Jan 17 18:59:26 and disabled where? Jan 17 19:00:48 in the GUI, in FF3 (or is it 6?) Jan 17 19:00:50 johnx_: theming problem fixed Jan 17 19:01:02 johnx_: dbus was run before exporting gtk theme Jan 17 19:01:04 hi Omegamoon :) Jan 17 19:01:21 Stskeeps, aaah. great! Jan 17 19:01:56 johnx_: good evening Jan 17 19:05:05 right, building 0.6 now :P Jan 17 19:06:19 I should be really sleeping now Jan 17 19:06:26 gnite Jan 17 19:06:30 (again) Jan 17 19:06:30 :P Jan 17 19:06:34 heh Jan 17 19:06:44 Stskeeps: about 2 hours ago downloaded imager did not install dsme-tools, could you add it to n800 target? Jan 17 19:07:27 Meizirkki: it should be Jan 17 19:07:30 lemme see Jan 17 19:07:59 you're right Jan 17 19:08:00 sec Jan 17 19:10:39 pushed Jan 17 19:11:26 is python-gnome an important part of the adv-power? Jan 17 19:11:29 yes Jan 17 19:11:33 we have a problem with python-gtk atm Jan 17 19:11:54 which sucks, but pymaemo is -- interesting Jan 17 19:12:07 ok, now i see why adv-power did not come up :P Jan 17 19:13:09 is hildon-theme-harry part of the fremantle? Jan 17 19:14:30 i'm not sure really Jan 17 19:14:57 not sure it's even public Jan 17 19:16:30 Meizirkki: can you try experimenting with the theme at http://zenvoid.org/tmp/ btw? Jan 17 19:16:38 (there's a deb) Jan 17 19:16:49 the -liberty one Jan 17 19:17:11 yep Jan 17 19:20:02 * Meizirkki reboots to see how liberty looks like Jan 17 19:23:13 Stskeeps: looks nice, but how can i get the icons? Jan 17 19:23:18 icons? Jan 17 19:23:35 icons are missing Jan 17 19:23:47 there's a gtkrc in the theme dir.. add .. Jan 17 19:26:07 find # Icon size Jan 17 19:26:07 s Jan 17 19:26:09 add gtk-fallback-icon-theme = "hildon" Jan 17 19:26:11 after that Jan 17 19:26:37 ok, thanks Jan 17 19:29:28 * lcuk ties lardman to the chan Jan 17 19:29:52 hey is anyone having the issue that flashblock doubles the window and allows one to play Jan 17 19:30:43 lcuk, then the whole damn thing is just gonna leave with him. Jan 17 19:31:23 heh yeah Jan 17 19:32:25 shit Jan 17 19:32:29 hold on Jan 17 19:34:26 Stskeeps: http://s52.radikal.ru/i138/0901/dc/375a5d91b837.jpg Jan 17 19:34:43 wazd: hehe, you've been busy :) Jan 17 19:35:00 wazd, whats the wasted area on the right for? Jan 17 19:35:09 (otherwise v cool looking) Jan 17 19:35:15 wazd: curious Jan 17 19:35:19 what would be the title menu? Jan 17 19:35:25 when an app is loaded Jan 17 19:35:37 lcuk: well, that's for close/minimize :) Jan 17 19:36:05 wazd: saw my question about a 800x600x256colors splash screen earlier btw? Jan 17 19:36:13 (for x86 splash :P) Jan 17 19:36:31 Stskeeps: I've came up with 2 variants: Mer button or application's icon Jan 17 19:36:51 Stskeeps: np, wait a sec Jan 17 19:36:58 wazd: hmm.. if we speak touch, the area in the exact middle could be interesting Jan 17 19:38:35 Stskeeps: wanna move "mer" there?) Jan 17 19:38:49 wazd: well i still want to be able to launch apps from within other apps Jan 17 19:40:11 * wazd pretending Steve Jobs Jan 17 19:40:22 Stskeeps: who needs it? Nobody! Jan 17 19:40:24 :D Jan 17 19:40:54 multitasking, eh Jan 17 19:41:04 moo, wazd Jan 17 19:41:19 wazd: ines,vgb,vgba,colem went out into Extras Jan 17 19:42:18 already updated Jan 17 19:42:21 yay me Jan 17 19:44:05 RST38h: I've already installed them, awesome looking) Jan 17 19:44:23 Stskeeps: http://s39.radikal.ru/i086/0901/86/58078eea82da.bmp Jan 17 19:44:41 RST38h: should I make icons for Spec and msx? Jan 17 19:45:16 wazd: is that 256 colors? Jan 17 19:45:39 seems so Jan 17 19:45:40 Stskeeps: well, my settings tells me so) Jan 17 19:45:41 impressive Jan 17 19:46:00 http://s52.radikal.ru/i138/0901/dc/375a5d91b837.jpg WTF? this looks BEAUTIFUL !!! Jan 17 19:46:22 * Stskeeps takes away Meizirkki's caffeine pills Jan 17 19:47:08 Stskeeps: thats some crazy dithering setting. Doesn't harm the image so hard Jan 17 19:47:18 wazd: btw, all those radikal.ru stuff, is it like a image hosting thing like imageshack or your own? we need to make a gallery of all your stuff at some point so we dont loose it :P Jan 17 19:47:19 Meizirkki: thanks) Jan 17 19:47:33 ive lost track of where i got the mer rescue menu stuff, for instance :> Jan 17 19:47:34 can i get desktop like that somehow? :P Jan 17 19:47:39 Meizirkki: if you make it ;) Jan 17 19:47:50 ookay Jan 17 19:47:52 Meizirkki: that's a mockup, btw Jan 17 19:48:05 as in, not real, but could be real someday Jan 17 19:48:08 yep Jan 17 19:48:17 Stskeeps: Maybe I shoud make picassa album or something Jan 17 19:48:41 redlinux has a hildon like that... Jan 17 19:49:32 liberty theme looks cool too :P Jan 17 19:49:38 Meizirkki: scrshot? Jan 17 19:49:52 Stskeeps: could that be used as a default theme? Jan 17 19:49:56 sec Jan 17 19:50:04 Meizirkki: yes, thats a thought Jan 17 19:50:11 wazd: A Speccy one would be good + if you can remove the speaker grill from the GG, I would appreciate it (Inkscape mangles the svg somehow) Jan 17 19:50:14 Meizirkki: we also have a small bunch of other themes in the queue Jan 17 19:50:20 ok Jan 17 19:50:35 wazd: For fMSX, only if it looks like the present one :) Jan 17 19:52:00 RST38h: ah, you have "fMSX" on it right now) Jan 17 19:52:29 RST38h: That one on the web-site is old) Jan 17 19:53:25 Stskeeps: what about clicking app's icon to open menu? Jan 17 19:54:16 Stskeeps: that will give us "mer" for whatever you like Jan 17 19:54:39 Stskeeps: but it will also give a problem of homescreen app menu Jan 17 19:55:02 wazd: maybe Jan 17 19:55:44 http://trac.tspre.org/meiz Jan 17 19:55:45 Screenshots 1,2,3 Jan 17 19:56:14 looks good Jan 17 19:56:21 yep Jan 17 19:56:22 wazd: the original one (black scrane, red F, white MSX in the original logo style) was made by a Japanese guy Jan 17 19:56:55 s/scrane/square Jan 17 20:02:02 Meizirkki: btw, feel free to investigate on how to use http://s39.radikal.ru/i086/0901/86/58078eea82da.bmp as splash screen Jan 17 20:02:07 for x86 Jan 17 20:02:11 wazd: the one on the web site is nothing more than a boot screen Jan 17 20:02:23 Meizirkki: it's in the right dimensions and colors so Jan 17 20:02:30 ok Jan 17 20:31:49 evening ian_at_synth Jan 17 20:31:57 lardman, have you seen this : https://omapzoom.org/gf/project/omapbridge/wiki/ Jan 17 20:32:17 evening, Stskeeps Jan 17 20:32:31 theres a load of other omap based projects Jan 17 20:33:16 gah! ive been trying to show him that since before Jan 17 20:34:40 stskeeps: what do you mean by "alter [themes] to use proper fallback icon theme" on the Mer blueprint page? Jan 17 20:35:31 ian_at_synth: for some strange reason (or to be more debian-like) our icon theme for hildon which we have from ubuntu, requires the gtkrc files to have gtk-icon-fallback-theme "hildon"; Jan 17 20:35:40 else icons will not appear correctly Jan 17 20:35:46 we usually do it by editing hildon-theme-layout-4 Jan 17 20:36:36 so, will themes still use their custom icons, or will all themes use the same hildon icons? Jan 17 20:36:50 yes, the themes will still be able to use their custom icons as far as i know Jan 17 20:36:56 Stskeeps: I think I know how to make everybody happy now) Jan 17 20:37:06 wazd: christmas every day? Jan 17 20:37:13 Stskeeps: yep) Jan 17 20:37:16 yay Jan 17 20:37:31 it's just a minor change because we will collide with non-hildon things else :) Jan 17 20:37:39 Stskeeps: drawing new mockup right now Jan 17 20:38:31 ian_at_synth: basically this change: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/hildon-theme-layout-4/revision/394 (except the gtk-toolbar-icon-size thing, i just changed that) Jan 17 20:41:48 stskeeps: cool. you should also check out our theme sources, as they are a bit different from others made with hildon-theme-tools. for one, we have an icon template file which we slice during the build. it doesn't cover all icons obviously, but many more than thememaker does, including all the tasknav and statusbar icons, and quite a few others. Jan 17 20:42:36 yeah, - right now i'm including zenvoid's liberty theme, and then i'll take a look at yours Jan 17 20:42:57 great Jan 17 20:45:06 what licenses are your themes btw? Jan 17 20:45:09 just out of curiousity Jan 17 20:51:05 stskeeps: sorry, went afk. our themes are CC-by-sa 2.5 licensed Jan 17 20:51:18 alright Jan 17 20:52:02 * Stskeeps wonders what the problems debian had with plankton until it got 3.0 licensed Jan 17 20:55:16 stskeeps: no idea. but actually, i just noticed that we actually already upped ours to 3.0 in our previous release as well, so no worries Jan 17 20:55:45 oki Jan 17 20:55:47 Stskeeps:http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/0901/3b/400cead430b5.jpg Jan 17 20:55:58 i'm not much of a license nazi unless it gets me into trouble ;) Jan 17 20:56:09 wazd: ooh. Jan 17 20:56:13 wazd: wow nice mockup Jan 17 20:56:26 wazd: i think the middle thing could potentially be thumb sized Jan 17 20:56:26 Stskeeps: and task switcher is in secret place now)) Jan 17 20:56:27 wazd: imho, the extra glitz at the top bar is unnecessary Jan 17 20:57:02 wazd: makes it look like it is made of two strips Jan 17 20:57:17 wazd: the question is also if the whole bar belongs in bottom or top :) Jan 17 20:57:26 top! Jan 17 20:58:37 zenvoid: hildon-theme-layout-4ex now in ~mer-committers/m-r/ with two patches Jan 17 20:58:37 yeah i think the top is best too Jan 17 20:58:50 top. bear in mind that hildon toolbars go on the bottom. Jan 17 20:58:54 true Jan 17 21:04:57 Stskeeps: I think that hildon-theme-liberty can be built from the standard hildon-theme-layout-4 by a small change in debian/control, if you want to avoid many hildon-theme-layout-XXX packages in the repo Jan 17 21:04:58 merinstaller-1.8.1-1_armel.deb successfuly built; http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.8.1-1_armel.deb and updated the chart at http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Sprint_January_2008_and_before:_Basic_installable_image Jan 17 21:05:15 b-man: ta, and i'll have an image for you to test soon Jan 17 21:05:25 ok :) Jan 17 21:05:45 zenvoid: didn't you change sapwood -> ubuntulooks stuff in -4ex? Jan 17 21:05:57 yes, it depends on ubuntulooks Jan 17 21:06:01 k Jan 17 21:06:16 that warrants a seperate layout package for now then :) Jan 17 21:06:45 we'll have one for synth themes too so Jan 17 21:06:56 if you use -4ex, the menubar for the standar (not hildonized) apps should be themed Jan 17 21:07:37 *nod* Jan 17 21:07:58 i'm almost done including liberty Jan 17 21:08:05 and maybe other widgets will be themed, I don't remember exactly what I've changed :) Jan 17 21:08:51 ahh, and it will use Vera fonts instead of Nokia Jan 17 21:09:10 yeah Jan 17 21:09:15 someone suggested Droid Sans as well Jan 17 21:09:29 Stskeeps, btw, i've been working on a icon for the installer that's 50x50 but when i updated the desktop file it refuses to display it. my icon is stored in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/50x50/apps Jan 17 21:09:31 droid sans? Jan 17 21:09:51 b-man: gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor Jan 17 21:09:52 i think Jan 17 21:10:02 zenvoid: android fonts, apache licensed Jan 17 21:10:06 ok, i'll try Jan 17 21:10:28 Stskeeps: oh, looks good, I've found them in a wikipedia article :) Jan 17 21:10:33 alright Jan 17 21:10:49 zenvoid: packaging of those would be good too :) Jan 17 21:12:02 b-man: did you hear we fixed the crash problems? Jan 17 21:12:06 or upstream did Jan 17 21:12:47 how can i apply the changes to mer/ubuntu? Jan 17 21:12:55 b-man: apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade :9 Jan 17 21:13:02 it is a xserver-xorg fix Jan 17 21:13:04 Stskeeps: yes, I need to dig into my hard disk in order to try to find any useful package waiting there :) then I hope to start doing things tomorrow Jan 17 21:13:15 ok, thanks! Jan 17 21:13:19 zenvoid: alright - 0.6 image will be out tonight Jan 17 21:13:35 btw, i got an error with icon cache; Failed to write hash table Jan 17 21:13:51 b-man: doing it as root? Jan 17 21:13:57 yes Jan 17 21:13:59 odd Jan 17 21:14:08 How much space on / ? Jan 17 21:14:58 1.24mb :p - that might be the problem ;) Jan 17 21:14:58 Stskeeps: I've just in the middle of a migration (freepats.opensrc.org will be hosted under zenvoid.org), I'll try 0.6 asap Jan 17 21:15:10 b-man, I guess so ;) Jan 17 21:15:12 zenvoid: it's even installable on x86 for kicks :> Jan 17 21:15:38 * b-man clears some space and trys again Jan 17 21:16:12 zenvoid: liberty uploaded Jan 17 21:17:24 zenvoid: does liberty use sapwood at all, btw? Jan 17 21:17:53 Stskeeps: ok. in this moment the contents of my hard disk are a *random* collection of bytes spreaded everywere, just need to clear a bit before doing something else or I'll be crazy ;-) Jan 17 21:18:05 zenvoid: hehe :) Jan 17 21:18:11 you should see my mer directories then :P Jan 17 21:18:13 Stskeeps: yes, it does, for most things Jan 17 21:18:16 oki Jan 17 21:18:42 Stskeeps: give me a minute... I'll look Jan 17 21:18:46 There is one really annoying thing in jaunty/mer. Whatever turns off the screen in 10 minutes of idling, turn off 200 things with it. This is not related to dsme-tools. If i leave my tablet idle for a 2 minuted when booted to mer, the screen is turned off by dsme-tools and tapping to the screen wakes it up. If i leave my tablet idle for 11minutes, dsme-thing will turn screen off in minute, but the other thing that existed befo Jan 17 21:18:46 re dsmetools comes up in 10min. So after 10min of sleeping in Mer, my n810 has no network connection anymore, and if there was apt running it was interrupted, and nm-applet wont connect until i reboot. Jan 17 21:19:25 Meiz_n810: yeah, there's a problem with network manager Jan 17 21:19:31 i suspect it has to deal with scanning Jan 17 21:20:09 Stskeeps: this isn't problem with network-manager, there is a thing that turns screen off even if dsme-tools in not installed Jan 17 21:20:44 Meiz_n810: xset --help Jan 17 21:20:55 the dpms / blanking thing possibly Jan 17 21:20:56 it interrputs apt and wifi even if i'm connected via iwconfig Jan 17 21:21:02 sec Jan 17 21:21:16 zenvoid: what are you using ubuntulooks for? Jan 17 21:22:40 Stskeeps & ian_at_synth: if you build a theme with hildon-theme-layout-4ex, the GtkMenuBar, GtkPaned, GtkEntry and some of the GtkToggleButton will be ubuntulooks Jan 17 21:22:47 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/25456948/what_obama_must_do Jan 17 21:22:55 I think it will work with any theme Jan 17 21:22:56 (scary, scary stuff) Jan 17 21:23:03 i see Jan 17 21:23:50 is red pill mode usefull for anything at this point? Jan 17 21:24:06 dick-richardson: it's good for getting GeneralAntilles upset, usually Jan 17 21:24:15 dick: useful for seeing lotsa tentacles Jan 17 21:24:32 otherwise, apt-get will do the same job Jan 17 21:25:08 Stskeeps: my idea was to use ubuntulooks for most widgets, except the hildon controls which require pixmaps (those will use sapwood), but the idea was not complete Jan 17 21:25:39 there are updates available in red pill mode (and apt-get) that require removing osso-software-version-rx44 Jan 17 21:25:41 zenvoid: *nod* recompiling ubuntulooks towards our GTK right now Jan 17 21:25:52 probably don't want to do that I'm guessing Jan 17 21:26:19 Stskeeps: the reason was just easier to port stardard apps that looks like a desktop linux Jan 17 21:26:30 is it a meta package? Jan 17 21:26:46 zenvoid: yeah, that's one of the goals of Mer, so Jan 17 21:27:04 Stskeeps: ah, ok, good to know Jan 17 21:27:21 as in, making it easy to hildonize, get things looking well on mobile devices, etc Jan 17 21:27:28 not having to port 1314 libraries Jan 17 21:29:12 dick-richardson: yes, it's the meta-package used to enable SSU Jan 17 21:29:44 thank you :) Jan 17 21:30:02 Stskeeps: just the same :) I removed all rounded windows in the -liberty theme (compared to plakton) to make stardard apps fit well Jan 17 21:30:51 dick-richardson: you can remove it, but if you want to get SSU updates, install the unlocked version instead Jan 17 21:31:13 where's the unlocked version? Jan 17 21:31:33 unlocked version allows you to install newer versions of system packages Jan 17 21:31:47 but still get SSU updates too Jan 17 21:32:01 is it in a repo? Jan 17 21:32:02 it's in the same repo Jan 17 21:32:07 yes Jan 17 21:34:16 got it, thank you! Jan 17 21:34:22 np Jan 17 21:34:25 :) Jan 17 21:35:45 Anyone knows is battle of wesnoth can be installed to mmc1? Jan 17 21:37:57 zenvoid: liberty works great Jan 17 21:39:53 gnome-keyring needs to fucking die Jan 17 21:40:05 Stskeeps: Oh, that makes me happy, at least it may be used by more than one person ;-) Jan 17 21:40:56 * Meiz_n810 added some images about liberty in Mer to picasaweb... Jan 17 21:41:57 Stskeeps: hmmm... it seems that I've pached ubuntulooks. Very funny to discover things that I've actualy done myself Jan 17 21:42:18 zenvoid: i like liberty too :) Jan 17 21:42:26 can it be used in maemo? Jan 17 21:42:35 Stskeeps: changelog says: Colors modified to match those in hildon-theme-liberty. Customized gtkrc for small screens (Internet Tablets).Set myself as maintainer Jan 17 21:42:45 okay Jan 17 21:42:46 http://i044.radikal.ru/0901/ae/e40125918100.jpg Jan 17 21:43:16 pro's: common, uses same maemo stuff, finger friendly, space economy, square Jan 17 21:43:27 Oh that looks cool. Jan 17 21:43:46 wazd: ...and now, time to redu the menu =) Jan 17 21:43:50 contras: icons are less comprehensible than text Jan 17 21:43:51 s/redu/redo/ Jan 17 21:44:27 wazd: i'll be surprised if you don't have a high paying job somewhere at the end of the year Jan 17 21:44:30 :P Jan 17 21:44:37 one-color white icons are good Jan 17 21:44:40 well, practicaly that layout gives us what we wanted Jan 17 21:44:41 Meiz_n810: I think it can be used in standard maemo Jan 17 21:44:48 ok Jan 17 21:44:56 Meiz_n810: but not sure :) Jan 17 21:45:14 and I want to admit that it's square!) Jan 17 21:45:27 square = rotation friendly Jan 17 21:45:58 wazd: :-O Jan 17 21:46:10 wazd: that looks very good Jan 17 21:46:59 * RST38h thought circle was rotation friendly =) Jan 17 21:47:05 and I think it's not superhard to do that stuff since technicaly it's the same app menu Jan 17 21:47:28 RST38h: it's 21 century, circle is retro :D Jan 17 21:48:31 yea, I prefer the pentagram too =) Jan 17 21:48:42 that and one sacrifice a day... Jan 17 21:49:13 Now we have title menu, handy task switcher, flexibility, finger friendliness, and not "oh my god how the hell we supposed to do this" layout :) Jan 17 21:50:14 ah, another con is that we've lost 1 app cathegory, but whatever) Jan 17 21:51:31 wazd: nobody would want to use diablo/fremantle after that :) Jan 17 21:51:31 wazd: so what are the icons down the left? Jan 17 21:52:00 jaffa: totally random for now) Jan 17 21:52:31 wazd: Icons at the top: task switcher; then current focused app's menu, then status bar. "mer" and the stuff under it? Although with the stuff highlighted at the bottom, it looks like another task navigator. So I'm confused. Pretty though :-) Jan 17 21:52:39 Jaffa: heart, globe, ing-yang, king's crown, tools and task switcher :D Jan 17 21:53:35 Jaffa on top: "Mer" (opened), quick switcher, app menu (title menu), applets Jan 17 21:53:48 Jaffa: I think it is the app launcher, but using icons instead of text categories Jan 17 21:54:04 zenvoid: bingo :) Jan 17 21:54:24 wazd: that mockup looks cool, you got skills :D i have to ask though: were you joking a while back when you said having disabled menu items be invisible (in the titan theme) was a feature, not a bug? Jan 17 21:54:39 wazd: Always visible as in Maemo, or expands from 'mer' button wherever you are? (and then, the task nav bit of it is very separate from the mini-switcher) Jan 17 21:55:06 ian_at_synth: i could probably produce people at my university supporting that point :> Jan 17 21:55:08 Jaffa: no, we got rid of side menu Jan 17 21:55:24 wazd: indeed, this just looks like it's back ;-) Jan 17 21:55:34 Jaffa: yep, whatever :D Jan 17 21:55:50 ian_at_synth: I wasn't joking :) Jan 17 21:55:51 I'm sure it'll become clearer to me when I sleep. Jan 17 21:55:56 ouch Jan 17 21:56:38 Jaffa: i understand it as expanding from mer button Jan 17 21:56:52 ian_at_synth: But still I brought them back since it's too pov extravaganza :) Jan 17 21:57:55 Stskeeps: I also understand it as expanding, otherwise it would be just the left panel with a custom set of launchers ;-) Jan 17 21:58:10 zenvoid: indeed :) Jan 17 21:59:00 wazd: glad you came around on that Jan 17 21:59:06 :) Jan 17 22:01:04 * Jaffa beds Jan 17 22:02:17 So, what should I do now?) Jan 17 22:02:46 wazd: a well deserved beer? Jan 17 22:02:47 :P Jan 17 22:03:55 Stskeeps: oh noes, I should rest after yesterday's night :) Jan 17 22:04:19 hehe Jan 17 22:04:42 Stskeeps: tea, milk, calm music :) Jan 17 22:06:11 wazd: sleep? Jan 17 22:07:17 RST38h: nah, I had it too much today :) I'll write a post bout Mer's UI ideas I think) Jan 17 22:07:38 zenvoid: objections against using the mer wallpaper in liberty? Jan 17 22:07:42 as the default one Jan 17 22:07:45 A picture to torture Apple fanatics with: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/01/custom_1232216658125_smashed-computers.jpg Jan 17 22:09:13 Hmmm...Yahoo decided that my FF3 is a mobile browser Jan 17 22:09:37 Hah, I've found pretty fun thing :) Jan 17 22:09:48 don't see the smash - am I missing something? Jan 17 22:10:07 Another Andrew Zhilin has won a "new Emacs icon" contest :D Jan 17 22:10:09 http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/NewIcons.html Jan 17 22:10:18 Stskeeps: of course no objections! just modify it as you want Jan 17 22:11:28 wazd_hp: any objections against using liberty theme instead of titan for now? ;) Jan 17 22:11:45 (http://zenvoid.org/tmp/screenshot1.png) Jan 17 22:11:53 Stskeeps: why would I object?) Jan 17 22:11:56 wazd_hp: hehe Jan 17 22:12:12 i just think it's nice to ask :P pretty darn easy to end up stepping on people's toes once in a while Jan 17 22:12:17 Stskeeps: wait... WHAT?! Jan 17 22:12:28 Stskeeps: :P Jan 17 22:12:31 .. :P~ Jan 17 22:13:25 Nokia's widget contest is totally lame Jan 17 22:15:41 wazd: still no response from them? Jan 17 22:15:44 Stskeeps: with Mer background it will probably look better with more transparency in panels, as it I've made it for light backgrounds. I'll try to adjust it a bit for next version Jan 17 22:16:33 Stskeeps: BTW, about your question for CC 2.5 in Debian: http://evan.prodromou.name/ccsummary/ccsummary.html Jan 17 22:17:02 RST38h: yep Jan 17 22:17:06 Stskeeps: "debian-legal contributors think that works licensed solely under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 license [BY] are not free according to the DFSG and should not be included in Debian." Jan 17 22:17:22 zenvoid: oh boy, my favourite place, debian-legal Jan 17 22:17:37 Stskeeps: hahaha Jan 17 22:19:30 Stskeeps: I've been involved in several flames there Jan 17 22:20:40 zenvoid: google stskeeps debian-legal and google debian-legal unrealircd sometime Jan 17 22:20:54 Stskeeps: I will ;-) Jan 17 22:21:07 which pretty much highlights my attitudes towards that place Jan 17 22:21:08 :P Jan 17 22:22:35 Stskeeps: they were worried by minor things with licenses, and totally happy to include artwork from *unknown places* located using a google image search Jan 17 22:23:04 hehe Jan 17 22:23:15 Stskeeps: ... unknown authors, unkown copyright status... Jan 17 22:23:37 Stskeeps: so I was angy, better don't search my thear, please Jan 17 22:23:41 *thread Jan 17 22:23:51 :-) Jan 17 22:23:55 i just usually get suspicious if stuff looks pretty ;) Jan 17 22:24:37 i still occasionally think to make my mer stuff beerware Jan 17 22:24:42 that'll be a blast eventually Jan 17 22:24:43 :P Jan 17 22:27:39 zenvoid: got that gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks package? Jan 17 22:27:46 as in, source package Jan 17 22:27:54 (what version is it, btw?) Jan 17 22:28:06 Stskeeps: I got suspicious when the readme file says "artwork taken from google search) and no authors for sound/music/icons/graphics are not mentioned in the copyright file Jan 17 22:28:12 hehe Jan 17 22:29:45 Stskeeps: then I've found a lot of copyright strings doing grep /usr/share, and a lot of packages with artwork used without permision, and the fame started when I mass filed bugs Jan 17 22:29:54 *flame Jan 17 22:30:59 so CC 2.5 is not free, but those packages with artwork used without permission are OK Jan 17 22:33:00 Stskeeps: I have here ubuntulooks 0.9.12-12 sightly patched. It is probably obsolete now Jan 17 22:33:22 Stskeeps: do you want it? Jan 17 22:33:22 Setting up gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks (0.9.12-12) ... Jan 17 22:33:28 yeah, sure Jan 17 22:36:43 Stskeeps: oh! jaunty has the same version, so it is up to date :D Jan 17 22:37:15 zenvoid: hehe, yeah, that what was i pointed out Jan 17 22:38:20 Stskeeps: uploaded to http://zenvoid.org/tmp/ Jan 17 22:39:07 Stskeeps: the diff can be applied to the standard ubuntulooks in jaunty to get the patched one (colors and minor things) Jan 17 22:39:44 Stskeeps: this diff I mean: http://zenvoid.org/tmp/ubuntulooks.diff Jan 17 22:40:05 fucking ISP Jan 17 22:42:22 zenvoid: pushing it through builder Jan 17 22:42:51 while offline I thought that Mer would be awesome OS for instant launch Jan 17 22:42:51 If it's possible Jan 17 22:43:03 wazd_hp: boots in about 21 seconds Jan 17 22:43:07 on x86 Jan 17 22:43:12 (unoptimized9 Jan 17 22:43:29 also it's like 500mb installed on x86 :P Jan 17 22:43:55 besides that, maybe Jan 17 22:44:17 * b-man is irritated, gdm is not starting in ubuntu again :( Jan 17 22:45:18 and i do have fb_update_mode auto in /etc/rc.locale Jan 17 22:45:26 zenvoid, when using upstart in your chinook fork, did your tablet hang when shutting down? (I'm guessing not...) Jan 17 22:45:37 who shuts down their tablets? ;) Jan 17 22:45:50 * qwerty12_N800 does Jan 17 22:46:15 * b-man when traveling Jan 17 22:47:03 qwerty12_N800: no, it works much better than the original maemo :P Jan 17 22:48:08 qwerty12_N800: I have custom startup/shutdown scripts. Ok, I'll dig into my archives and publish everything I think scould be useful, just give me a day or two Jan 17 22:48:21 zenvoid, hehe Jan 17 22:48:24 Thanks! Jan 17 22:48:52 * qwerty12_N800 just took the standard init compat ones provided :) Jan 17 22:50:02 Stskeeps: shuld i just remove /sbin/fb_update_mode auto from /etc/rc.local? Jan 17 22:50:43 oh, no Jan 17 22:50:48 b-man: we dont have anything in rc.local anymore Jan 17 22:51:26 * b-man trys without fb_update_mode auto Jan 17 22:52:21 ... and also pached busybox to add an option to rmdir required by the postinstall scripts in some packages, it was applied upstream so probably is included in current busybox... Jan 17 22:52:46 i really don't remember the things I've done, but there was a lot of changes Jan 17 22:53:19 i still dont regret not going for busybox Jan 17 22:53:32 having a sane unix system is so much better Jan 17 22:53:37 Stskeeps: agree Jan 17 22:54:14 * qwerty12_N800 hates bb, it belongs on routers & similar. Not tablets Jan 17 22:55:05 Stskeeps, is bash the default shell? Jan 17 22:55:07 dash Jan 17 22:55:12 as in /bin/sh Jan 17 22:55:12 damn Jan 17 22:55:18 bash is too fucking slow Jan 17 22:55:22 Stskeeps: boot time may be better with bb, but I *think* it won't be any difference if using /bin/dash Jan 17 22:55:23 i think the user shell is bash though Jan 17 22:55:30 not sure how johnx set it up Jan 17 22:55:44 Stskeeps, wicked, that's the answer i'm looking for :) Jan 17 22:56:37 dash can be used for system scripts and bash for user shell, I think it is the default in ubuntu Jan 17 22:56:54 * qwerty12_N800 set up bash-completion in maemo again. He remembers what he was missing when he typed mpc and saw mpc's options Jan 17 22:56:56 yep Jan 17 22:58:32 * b-man wants to smash something, gdm still will not start - and the rescue menu refuses to activate console Jan 17 22:59:06 (going to sleep...) Jan 17 22:59:09 nini Jan 17 22:59:15 * Stskeeps is fixing up hildon-desktop-env Jan 17 22:59:18 night Jan 17 22:59:26 g'night Jan 17 23:03:04 * b-man wonders why console refuses to start - everything needed is installed Jan 17 23:03:32 fb_update_mode too? Jan 17 23:03:39 fbcon modules? Jan 17 23:03:59 yes, but it still won't start Jan 17 23:04:30 odd Jan 17 23:04:48 if i boot into ubuntu without a splash, nothing happens Jan 17 23:05:26 it just sits there saying "booting ubuntu .." Jan 17 23:06:02 no clue at this point, sometimes bad things just happen :P Jan 17 23:06:13 :( Jan 17 23:06:18 there was a reason i made an imager, cos i can usually trace back to what happened Jan 17 23:07:10 at least i made a tar.gz rootstrap Jan 17 23:07:29 so i can re-install fast ;) Jan 17 23:07:45 hehe, yeah Jan 17 23:07:46 i have similar Jan 17 23:10:13 * b-man checks if gnome is installible in mer with a little apt-pin tweeking Jan 17 23:10:22 it really ought to be Jan 17 23:10:33 but i cannot promise ubuntu-desktop Jan 17 23:13:47 nope; gnome-themes-extras but it is not going to be installed; gnome-games (>= 1:2.22.2) but it is not going to be installed; Depends: rhythmbox (>= 0.11.5) but it is not going to be installed; Depends: totem-mozilla but it is not going to be installed; Depends: serpentine but it is not going to be installed; Recommends: gnome-office (= 1:2.22.2~4ubuntu3) but it is not going to be installed Jan 17 23:13:59 gnome is not installible Jan 17 23:14:06 figure out where it goes wrong Jan 17 23:14:28 like, what breaks it :) Jan 17 23:15:08 the point of mer is to find a middle way, so Jan 17 23:15:49 nope; libgnomevfs2-extra is not installible Jan 17 23:16:12 hmmm Jan 17 23:16:29 report that on bugs.maemo.org will you? Extras -> Mer Jan 17 23:16:33 so we can keep track of it Jan 17 23:16:49 ok :) Jan 17 23:18:34 i know whats wrong and how it can be solved so Jan 17 23:18:47 b-man: and then add the bug number to the wiki Jan 17 23:19:38 bugs.maemo.org is refusing my maemo.org password/username :p Jan 17 23:19:55 they're separate Jan 17 23:20:11 oh Jan 17 23:20:26 (for some silly reason) Jan 17 23:23:18 heh, -liberty theme forces me to try and remember if im in maemo or not Jan 17 23:38:28 Meiz_n810: awake? Jan 17 23:39:32 Stskeeps: added bug report ;) - https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4016 Jan 17 23:41:43 and add to the sprint list? Jan 17 23:42:47 (Bug reports in bugzilla discovered through or related to Mer development in this sprint) Jan 17 23:43:08 i'm doing that now ;) Jan 17 23:43:10 oki Jan 17 23:45:17 * b-man is trying to figure out ware to add it without screwing things up :P Jan 17 23:45:33 here, there's a number,number,number thing Jan 17 23:45:34 (in the plane text) Jan 17 23:45:35 just add ,number Jan 17 23:47:49 so i got an email saying that the westnoth no text displayed bug in diablo was fixed Jan 17 23:48:11 Stskeeps: added it ;) Jan 17 23:48:15 b-man: ta Jan 17 23:51:13 does anyone have compiled iptables nat module for maemo kernel? Jan 17 23:52:27 anyone want to link me the addy that has the info for adding diablo extras repo? Jan 17 23:52:33 ~extras Jan 17 23:52:41 .. if infobot was here Jan 17 23:52:46 if only Jan 17 23:53:00 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jan 17 23:53:04 thanks Jan 17 23:53:24 oli, iptables-ext in extras. Jan 17 23:53:40 google gave me the wiki.maemo for the diablo extras repo proposal Jan 17 23:53:49 & http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/770/netfilter-diablo.tgz Jan 17 23:58:48 qwerty12_N800: where to extract it? when trying to insmod @ /home/user/.... got: cannot insert 'iptable_nat.ko': Unknown symbol in module (-1): No such file or directory Jan 17 23:59:39 Run dmesg | tail and read error. you aren't insmodding in correct order Jan 17 23:59:57 (and no, I don't know the order) Jan 18 00:01:57 b-man: can you add one thing in the installer? passwd root Jan 18 00:02:02 if it's not there already Jan 18 00:02:04 Stskeeps: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/18/mer-ui-the-beginning/ Jan 18 00:02:13 shure :) Jan 18 00:02:13 lookin' Jan 18 00:02:54 (i originaly removed it because Meizirkki requested me to) Jan 18 00:03:07 b-man: dont passwd user cos its not there, but passwd root is a good thing :P Jan 18 00:03:17 ok Jan 18 00:03:50 wazd: definately getting a thumbs up from me :) Jan 18 00:04:03 hm, wtf is ' EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled' in dmesg? Jan 18 00:04:04 when it appears on planet Jan 18 00:04:20 Stskeeps: well, I've posted it 3 mins ago) Jan 18 00:04:32 Stskeeps: planet goes down sometimes Jan 18 00:05:04 wazd: do i understand it right that to switch to another application, you need to tap two times? Jan 18 00:05:16 first on mer, then on the app switcher, then on the app? Jan 18 00:05:41 Stskeeps: actually you can tap once on quick switcher :) Jan 18 00:06:02 wazd: i thought the sidebar popped down when clicking mer Jan 18 00:06:20 Stskeeps: there's quick switcher on top Jan 18 00:06:25 next to Mer Jan 18 00:06:36 ah Jan 18 00:07:03 wazd: my idea would be that you put two-windows icon on top instead, and fold out the larger list automatically Jan 18 00:07:14 so it's two taps when we want more apps than in quick switcher Jan 18 00:07:35 if anyone wants to start an app, three taps Jan 18 00:07:48 Stskeeps: too complicated I think Jan 18 00:07:52 mm Jan 18 00:08:19 Stskeeps: You'll need app launcher more often than large switcher Jan 18 00:08:19 i really should be reading for the Human-Computer Interaction exam i have on wednesday than trying to practice it.. Jan 18 00:08:31 Stskeeps: way more Jan 18 00:09:06 Stskeeps: just set the priorities of functionality :) Jan 18 00:09:38 Stskeeps: Mer menu can open on large swithcer for example but thats bad idea Jan 18 00:10:01 mm, that was what i suggested Jan 18 00:10:21 Stskeeps: cause I want to have an app on "Mer menu -> center click" Jan 18 00:10:32 Stskeeps: oh, than sorry, I missunderstood) Jan 18 00:11:02 * b-man trys out ssh and connects to his account on trac.tspre.org and cd's to / .....cool Jan 18 00:11:25 b-man: hehe. dont mess around too much Jan 18 00:11:36 i wont :) Jan 18 00:12:23 im at a loss. i followed the link to auto install extras, but it doesnt say what distro it's for once installed Jan 18 00:12:37 your server's name is nit-debian? :) Jan 18 00:13:11 churl: diablo probably Jan 18 00:13:20 b-man: yeah, its the same server hosting deblet Jan 18 00:13:39 Stskeeps: im hoping so, but if that's so, westnoth is still buggy Jan 18 00:13:52 said today to be fixed Jan 18 00:20:46 * Stskeeps restarts the imager Jan 18 00:36:32 ok, i had to disable a few more chinook repos, but that did the trick Jan 18 00:58:17 * Stskeeps tries to install mer in a virtualbox Jan 18 01:06:27 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-virtualbox.png Jan 18 01:06:29 bwhahaha Jan 18 01:10:00 Stskeeps, why can they cancel? where do they return to.. Jan 18 01:10:20 lcuk: error message Jan 18 01:10:38 ? the first thing they see is an error message? Jan 18 01:11:43 they get an error message and it repeats the question Jan 18 01:12:40 what do 800 users do? Jan 18 01:12:51 is the vkb active? Jan 18 01:14:09 yeah Jan 18 01:14:55 can they get back to this screen easily and does it matter if they enter something long and full or short and unixy? Jan 18 01:18:32 its the first boot wizard, so Jan 18 01:18:37 very simple, up for improvement Jan 18 01:18:50 im just wondering where it will be used Jan 18 01:19:19 though i asked the same question in liqbase and had the same questions asked Jan 18 01:19:35 where it would be used? when you start your tablet first time :) Jan 18 01:19:45 or what do you mean? Jan 18 01:19:51 i mean the information you supply. Jan 18 01:20:14 it'll be used for setting up your tablet user Jan 18 01:20:39 and it should probably explain that i guess :P Jan 18 01:20:55 :) Jan 18 01:21:22 so its unixy names only really Jan 18 01:21:35 and not used for presentation Jan 18 01:21:58 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-virtualbox2.png Jan 18 01:21:59 yeah Jan 18 01:26:07 Stskeeps, can the name have spaces? Jan 18 01:26:56 yeah Jan 18 01:27:01 we use it to generate username and tablet name really Jan 18 01:31:21 Stskeeps, is it possible to do it in a more fluid way? like the xp install wizard http://www.netlaunch.net/images/tutorial%27s/Install%20windows%20(XP)/install_xp_netlaunch.net%2023.gif Jan 18 01:31:37 lcuk: yeah, probably Jan 18 01:31:42 we just needed something going really :) Jan 18 01:31:43 ie, with more information Jan 18 01:32:19 yeah understood, just thinking about all the questions people will have. if this is their first handheld you want to make it as nice as possible Jan 18 01:32:27 slick Jan 18 01:37:07 Stskeeps, if the browser is upto snuff soon we could let people make dialogs with html :) Jan 18 01:37:49 hehe Jan 18 01:38:07 we prolly just need glade + python script really Jan 18 01:38:37 but thats a higher bar for creative types Jan 18 01:40:17 hey all Jan 18 01:40:33 hiya aquatix Jan 18 01:40:48 evening Jan 18 01:42:15 lcuk: still, a vm image has a lot of interesting potential uses Jan 18 01:42:41 what do you mean? Jan 18 01:43:15 lcuk: well, one is development, instant testing if it looks fine on the devices, etc Jan 18 01:43:29 another is showcase of your mobile app Jan 18 01:43:37 i mean, when did i say it wasnt? Jan 18 01:43:46 you didnt :) Jan 18 01:43:50 mobile app gets showcased natively in x86 :) Jan 18 01:44:02 i'm just a bit insomniac, so heading to bed soon :P Jan 18 01:44:23 heh yeah tis late, but i had a kebab so cant lie down fora while Jan 18 01:44:29 :) Jan 18 01:44:34 * aquatix is at a nerdy party Jan 18 01:44:43 as many laptops as attendees Jan 18 01:44:51 my main problem with vmware and xephyr and emulators is lack of xv :'( Jan 18 01:46:52 aquatix: saw my screenshot above? :> Jan 18 01:47:14 ( http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-virtualbox2.png Jan 18 01:47:55 ooh Jan 18 01:48:26 that's rather nice Jan 18 01:48:51 Stskeeps: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.9.1-1_armel.deb - provides root password step, mer icon, and a desktop file selector in postinst for placing the file ware you like :) Jan 18 01:49:04 b-man: thanks, - which url does it point to? Jan 18 01:49:25 url? Jan 18 01:49:39 oh, 0.6 Jan 18 01:49:48 oki Jan 18 01:50:57 * b-man gose back to watching naruto, bye **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 18 02:59:57 2009