**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 27 02:59:57 2009 Jan 27 04:22:00 <[TIWizard]> Eh... Is it my client, or is it quiet in here? Jan 27 04:22:20 it's quiet Jan 27 04:22:29 <[TIWizard]> Oh, good :) Jan 27 04:22:36 <[TIWizard]> I thought I broke something... Jan 27 04:22:48 hmm Jan 27 04:23:03 [TIWizard]: it's 5:22AM Jan 27 04:23:26 <[TIWizard]> Oh. 8:30 here. Jan 27 04:23:31 <[TIWizard]> At night* Jan 27 04:23:58 I'm awake...I just wish I wasn't :) Jan 27 04:23:59 [TIWizard]: where are you? Jan 27 04:24:09 <[TIWizard]> Washington state, USA :D Jan 27 04:24:24 edrex: Sorry I was in class, are you still about? Jan 27 04:24:51 [TIWizard]: you want to change withe me? Jan 27 04:25:11 <[TIWizard]> Err... Jan 27 04:29:58 wow, my ordered digital camara was send yesterday... Jan 27 04:30:54 hello Jan 27 04:31:21 good morning Pavlz Jan 27 04:31:30 anyone know how is possible Jan 27 04:32:05 no, cause you dosn't said waht should be possible Jan 27 04:32:11 to remove the audio player, video player Jan 27 04:32:42 and rss feed reader from nokia 770 Jan 27 04:32:56 using the shell ? Jan 27 04:33:31 i just moved .sounds .images .documents Jan 27 04:33:52 .video Jan 27 04:34:41 dpkg -l Jan 27 04:34:43 i got on the nokia 770 mplayer, kmplayer, ogg vorbis player Jan 27 04:34:52 and you see the installed packages Jan 27 04:35:48 then search for the righte ones and remove them withe apt-get or dpkg Jan 27 04:35:59 xchat, maemo recorders, streamtuner Jan 27 04:36:30 thanks Jan 27 04:36:59 but i never moved with apt-get Jan 27 04:37:38 i have only used it to install the packages Jan 27 04:38:23 apt-get remove Jan 27 04:39:00 removing parts of the media player might cause it to not boot Jan 27 04:39:23 make sure you have backups Jan 27 04:40:16 johnx: is there a way to creat a rootfs-image? Jan 27 04:40:55 cat /dev/mtdblock4 > file Jan 27 04:40:57 maybe? Jan 27 04:41:13 you'll probably want it mounted read-only when you do that though Jan 27 04:41:28 mount -o remount,ro / Jan 27 04:41:31 ? Jan 27 04:41:37 sure, if that works Jan 27 04:41:52 I don't know Jan 27 04:42:17 I'll try it later... Jan 27 04:42:19 well, I mean it should work, but if a file is open writeable then it probably won't Jan 27 04:43:37 johnx: what's /dev/mtd1 for an device? Jan 27 04:44:08 I think that's the 'raw' NAND device, first partition Jan 27 04:44:34 johnx: It contains the lock-code If set Jan 27 04:45:13 ok. then why did you ask? :P Jan 27 04:45:47 or is this a quiz? Jan 27 04:45:59 I wanted to know what kind of device it is Jan 27 04:46:19 aaah, ok. I thought it was a quiz :) Jan 27 04:46:56 at the moment i did only a simple Jan 27 04:47:10 apt-get update Jan 27 04:47:26 apt-get dist-upgrade Jan 27 04:48:03 but i don't understand why it is not possible to Jan 27 04:48:38 have a custom os on own nokia 770 Jan 27 04:48:48 it is possible Jan 27 04:48:54 look at deblet, or mer Jan 27 04:48:57 how ? Jan 27 04:49:32 what are deblet or mer ? Jan 27 04:49:37 can you sudo su in scratchbox? Jan 27 04:49:47 where to search them ? Jan 27 04:50:20 ~deblet Jan 27 04:50:21 ~mer Jan 27 04:50:27 infobot, ping Jan 27 04:50:43 extra, extra, read all about it, deblet is http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet Jan 27 04:50:45 methinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 27 04:50:45 ~pong Jan 27 04:50:56 hehe Jan 27 04:52:22 infobot, you're slow Jan 27 04:52:23 i'll take that as a complement Jan 27 04:52:32 lol Jan 27 04:56:35 johnx: is it possible to port gnome for the N800? Jan 27 04:57:01 it's in mer and deblet and b-man has a neat little howto for installing ubuntu Jan 27 04:57:08 * FireFox uses gnome in ubuntu on his N800 Jan 27 04:57:13 it's way too heavy though Jan 27 04:57:27 not ifou use swap ;) Jan 27 04:57:36 re; if you Jan 27 04:57:47 how much swap? :P Jan 27 04:57:49 yes ok Jan 27 04:57:59 250-356mb ;p Jan 27 04:58:05 i saw the deblet Jan 27 04:58:32 mer is the continuation of deblet in many ways Jan 27 04:58:39 but there was only screeshots for nokia 800 Jan 27 04:58:58 nothing for nokia 770 Jan 27 04:59:15 * FireFox starts to install vista-menu in ubuntu Jan 27 04:59:25 Pavlz, there are more than one screenshots of the 770 on the page I linked... Jan 27 05:00:01 and then i got a little problem with the mmc Jan 27 05:00:18 it doesn't enter more Jan 27 05:01:47 one time the nokia 770 fells Jan 27 05:01:53 ouch :( Jan 27 05:02:09 and the slot eject the mmc Jan 27 05:02:42 this means to go to the center of assistance Jan 27 05:03:23 to solve a problem of a spring Jan 27 05:03:45 does it work now? Jan 27 05:03:54 yes Jan 27 05:04:31 i am chatting with you now with the nokia 770 Jan 27 05:04:40 ah good :) Jan 27 05:04:56 but, does the mmc slot work now? Jan 27 05:05:51 the mmc no Jan 27 05:06:20 if i try to insert it espulses the mmc Jan 27 05:06:51 ejects? Jan 27 05:07:06 to go to the center of assistance means Jan 27 05:07:38 to wait a month first i have back the nokia Jan 27 05:07:53 it is an old problem Jan 27 05:08:25 it was solved, but now is out of warranty Jan 27 05:09:59 with the nokia 800 and 810 where removed the shared memory ? Jan 27 05:10:29 shared memory? Jan 27 05:11:18 in the fs of nokia 770 there are many things that have not sense for example cdrom **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 27 05:27:26 2009 Jan 27 05:29:02 how to search any channel that i forgot how was recorded exactely ? Jan 27 05:29:20 Google ? **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 27 05:37:20 2009 Jan 27 06:00:09 Morning all Jan 27 06:00:29 is there a quemu for nokia 770 ? Jan 27 06:00:40 good morning Jan 27 06:01:30 i would to mount the openmoko on nokia 770 Jan 27 06:19:59 pom pom pom Jan 27 06:23:02 robtaylor: ping? Jan 27 07:25:18 hello cruel world Jan 27 07:25:30 suppose you had the unfortunate luck of using gnomevfs Jan 27 07:25:38 and you tried to move a folder to some location Jan 27 07:25:39 hello timeless Jan 27 07:25:44 at the end of the process Jan 27 07:25:48 you receive error: Jan 27 07:25:52 GNOME_VFS_ERROR_DIRECTORY_NOT_EMPTY: Jan 27 07:25:58 Stskeeps: any news on evolution? Jan 27 07:26:27 what does that mean? :) Jan 27 07:26:52 yay sshfs! Jan 27 07:26:54 * Mousey huggles Jan 27 07:27:16 cruel_world: why do you tease me sos? Jan 27 07:27:29 because I'm cruel Jan 27 07:29:03 you're not helping Jan 27 07:29:11 lol - sorry Jan 27 07:29:14 * timeless fires world Jan 27 07:29:26 * Mousey hello's world Jan 27 07:29:30 * jaem gets the BIG fire extinguisher Jan 27 07:30:07 http://www.lolbuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/mark-condit.jpg Jan 27 07:30:19 jaem: use of 'flood' was banned after recreation of the world :) Jan 27 07:30:26 lolbuntu Jan 27 07:30:27 NO Jan 27 07:30:27 hehe Jan 27 07:30:29 WAI Jan 27 07:30:34 YA WAI Jan 27 07:31:31 aw Jan 27 07:31:35 not as funny as i was hoping Jan 27 07:31:38 like lolcode Jan 27 07:31:45 lol Jan 27 07:32:48 the top post on ICHC is amusing Jan 27 07:32:50 i thot lolbuntu would be like, written in memes, and firefox's homepage set to 4chan Jan 27 07:33:10 haha Jan 27 07:33:24 I CAN HAZ ROOT PASSWERD? Jan 27 07:33:26 and of course can has linux viruses Jan 27 07:33:30 [sudo] Jan 27 07:33:31 dammit, beat me to the can has joke Jan 27 07:33:39 haha Jan 27 07:34:05 and when you boot it, it's pedobear graphic, it reads OH HAI Jan 27 07:34:11 ... Jan 27 07:34:14 ^_^ Jan 27 07:34:29 ok ok.. lolbuntu coulda been a contender, now it's already ol Jan 27 07:34:30 d Jan 27 07:36:17 hmm... ICHC is working on an API Jan 27 07:36:20 "EG: I’d make an application that does [WOW], if the Cheez Devs make an API that gives me [STUFF]." Jan 27 07:37:17 night everybody Jan 27 07:37:18 Hello ! Jan 27 07:38:02 someone can help me and try mnotes 0.3.0 in extras-devel ? Jan 27 07:38:39 two users report it doesn t launch Jan 27 07:39:11 but i can t get any more info from they Jan 27 07:41:16 ping ? Jan 27 07:44:09 hum ... seems disconnected again Jan 27 07:45:42 Khertan_n810, you are here Jan 27 07:46:46 thx Jan 27 07:56:30 bye Jan 27 08:18:43 * timeless considers Jan 27 08:18:48 should i translate this string as Jan 27 08:18:58 "please file a bug explaining how you got to this message" Jan 27 08:19:49 # https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4047 Jan 27 08:19:49 msgid "ckdg_ib_unable_to_move_to_current_location" Jan 27 08:19:49 msgstr "Please file a bug explaining how you got to this message" Jan 27 08:19:56 :ws Jan 27 08:22:23 * timeless sighs Jan 27 08:22:28 these people suck Jan 27 08:23:04 Unable to do != Unable to do some Jan 27 08:27:42 Multi touch is now patented by Apple Jan 27 08:27:44 nice ! Jan 27 08:28:46 but this is not the hardware part which is patented now ... Jan 27 08:28:58 but also the fact to pinch to zoom ... Jan 27 08:29:09 this software patent really sucks ! Jan 27 08:36:36 Haven't they patented "click" yet?) Jan 27 08:37:55 i thought that was ebay Jan 27 08:39:09 one click is amazon Jan 27 08:39:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Click Jan 27 08:39:58 In response to the lawsuit, the Free Software Foundation urged a boycott of Amazon.com until September 2002.[11] Jan 27 08:40:37 This is a bad sign actually cause when company starts to do that kind of ridiculous stuff - then it has nothing to show Jan 27 08:40:40 huhu ... we will not be able to bought anything if we boycott company each time they use stupid patent Jan 27 08:47:53 Morning, all Jan 27 08:48:12 Jaffa: Hey Jan 27 08:48:36 Jaffa: I'm hacking around the sandbox :) Jan 27 08:51:17 * Jaffa goes to have a look... Jan 27 08:51:38 * Jaffa is getting really pissed off with Clay Thingy. Enough to put me off RRV anyway Jan 27 09:00:26 buongiorno Jan 27 09:04:23 L0cutus: hey there Jan 27 09:07:36 Jaffa: can you help me a bit?) I can't trace weird bug ( Jan 27 09:08:04 wazd: looking good. You've spelt "distribution" incorrectly, FWIW Jan 27 09:08:16 Will the n810 ever be getting 3D acceleration? Jan 27 09:08:31 that question isn't very well phrased Jan 27 09:08:36 sandman2: there's a `Drivers justification' wiki page Jan 27 09:08:41 the n810 is shipped hardware. the hardware won't ever change Jan 27 09:08:49 it'd be something else Jan 27 09:08:57 timeless: The n810 has a 3D accelerator in it. Jan 27 09:09:13 it does? Jan 27 09:09:17 does the n800? Jan 27 09:09:20 Yes Jan 27 09:09:21 Jaffa: oh. crap :) Jan 27 09:09:22 They both do Jan 27 09:09:26 But they lack drivers Jan 27 09:09:39 jaffa: the text in powervr needs an editor Jan 27 09:09:41 Jaffa: can you find missing right block of the table?) Jan 27 09:09:47 (in that case a PowerVR too) Jan 27 09:09:49 It's the PowerVR 3d accelerator. The SoC in the Nokia n810 is capable of running Quake3 @ like 50 FPS Jan 27 09:09:57 implies the iphone has multiple accelerators Jan 27 09:10:03 But it's not doing that, because of IP issues. Jan 27 09:10:20 imaginary property Jan 27 09:10:26 Nokia, afaik, refuses to get the drivers for it. And as a result, they are losing out on a very great deal of money Jan 27 09:10:30 jaska: Exactly Jan 27 09:10:46 I know many folks who would have already snagged an n810, years ago Jan 27 09:10:54 If it weren't for the blast 3d acceleration problem Jan 27 09:10:59 blasted* Jan 27 09:11:21 sandman2: but you don't know what price does PowerVR license has :) Jan 27 09:12:05 Well, why aren't we reverse engineering it? Jan 27 09:12:13 reverse engineering what? Jan 27 09:12:16 and who is we? Jan 27 09:12:28 the powervr specs are iirc available Jan 27 09:12:36 sandman2: and again, SoC in the Nokia n810 isn't capable to run 800x480 static image :) Jan 27 09:12:37 timeless: I think "we" is sandman in this case ;) Jan 27 09:12:43 timeless: We as in, all of us and myself, except for you. Jan 27 09:12:54 yeah, i'm pretty sure i'm not allowed to do it Jan 27 09:13:04 since i've probably seen relevant bits Jan 27 09:13:11 which would make me toxic to any such project :) Jan 27 09:13:24 morning Jan 27 09:13:32 Stskeeps: heya Jan 27 09:13:44 sandman2: 3d acceleration discussion has been going on for ages Jan 27 09:14:01 Stskeeps: I see. Well, it's a shame, really. Jan 27 09:14:02 Stskeeps: screw 3d acceleration, help me :) Jan 27 09:14:04 nokia/TI's giving out OSS free kernel drivers and free 3d drivers for omap3, next device Jan 27 09:14:12 which is quite a development Jan 27 09:14:13 There are so many folks who decided against the N810 for that one feature. Jan 27 09:14:24 sandman2: power vr cant handle such large screen Jan 27 09:14:30 Stskeeps: Well, that would be lovely. Jan 27 09:14:36 the drivers nokia published are even feeding off on beagleboard etc Jan 27 09:14:43 wazd: Right, I'm not arguing there's a good reason it's not enabled. Jan 27 09:14:45 sandman2: it's just 640x480 max Jan 27 09:14:51 sandman2: but that is SGX, not MBX :/ Jan 27 09:14:55 sandman2: this channel isn't a good way to tell nokia why people didn't buy their product Jan 27 09:14:59 I'm just saying, I happen to _know_ that Nokia has lost loads of sales simply because of that 3D thing Jan 27 09:15:09 if you're here, you're supposed to be someone who's using the software stack Jan 27 09:15:10 obviously Jan 27 09:15:14 Many people are under the impression that there's the hardware there, and that they are also paying for it, but that they are being prevented from using it. Jan 27 09:15:24 sandman2: we know, we know, speaking to the choir Jan 27 09:15:25 i happen to know nokia has lost many more sales because they didn't spend much on marketing Jan 27 09:15:27 next device will have it Jan 27 09:15:28 :P Jan 27 09:15:29 timeless: Really? I didn't read that anywhere. Jan 27 09:15:33 sandman2: If license cost 2 million euros - I think they've done right thing ) Jan 27 09:15:44 wazd: help with what? Jan 27 09:15:46 wazd: Why are they using a chip with retarded IP all over it like that? Jan 27 09:15:55 for the record, i have no idea what the marketing budget is/was Jan 27 09:16:01 sandman2: because of it's magic low power usage :) Jan 27 09:16:01 Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer Jan 27 09:16:16 however, having traveled around, i can say with confidence that there wasn't much spent in the us Jan 27 09:16:23 Stskeeps: When is the next nokia n-series coming out? Jan 27 09:16:30 * timeless saw plenty of iphone ads and garmin touch ads Jan 27 09:16:34 sandman2: why birds fly?) Jan 27 09:16:35 sandman2: summer-ish, noone really knows. life a thief in the night, probably Jan 27 09:16:43 wazd: black text on black background Jan 27 09:16:45 'uggh' Jan 27 09:16:49 Blarg. Jan 27 09:16:59 timeless: the bug is not the text Jan 27 09:17:00 wazd: i would use another font for artwork :P Jan 27 09:17:11 the thing most geeks completly fail to underestimate is the power of merketing Jan 27 09:17:16 Stskeeps: can you find that lost right block?) Jan 27 09:17:28 got root on my g1 Jan 27 09:17:32 Macer: hah. :P Jan 27 09:17:35 wazd: so the missing content block at the right hand side (the cutout) is a missing table column? Jan 27 09:17:39 products do not become successess/failures according to their spec sheet Jan 27 09:17:40 =) Jan 27 09:17:50 Jaffa: yep Jan 27 09:18:05 kubuntu on my macbook doesnt let my wifi go into adhoc mode Jan 27 09:18:07 I just didn't want to get stuck using the OpenPandora Jan 27 09:18:17 i guess ill install vista on it haha Jan 27 09:18:18 sandman2: what, the bank transfers pandora? :P Jan 27 09:18:35 sandman2: anyhow, the rumours for RX-51 looks delicious. Jan 27 09:18:36 i need adhoc to tether the g1 Jan 27 09:19:02 maybe ill try my n800 when i get home Jan 27 09:19:18 "Unable to open.\n" Jan 27 09:19:18 "Folder not found." Jan 27 09:19:20 that should be able to go adhoc Jan 27 09:19:26 could someone suggest what that means? :) Jan 27 09:19:50 sunday is when next mer release comes out sts? Jan 27 09:19:58 i am anxious to use it Jan 27 09:20:17 wazd: the third row only has two columns, not three. Jan 27 09:20:39 wazd: I think I can fix it, if you want? Jan 27 09:21:25 Jaffa: sure! Jan 27 09:22:11 Jaffa: and if you can align menu to the center - that would be awesome :) Jan 27 09:22:13 Stskeeps: so is mer just like deblet? Jan 27 09:22:24 or a whole new thing altogether? Jan 27 09:22:42 i thought deblet was very promising Jan 27 09:24:33 hey Jan 27 09:24:39 i need a tool Jan 27 09:24:43 could someone write it for me? Jan 27 09:24:47 i need to convert: Jan 27 09:24:51 # UNUSED STRING Jan 27 09:24:52 x Jan 27 09:24:53 y Jan 27 09:24:54 Jan 27 09:24:59 i? Jan 27 09:25:04 into # ...\n#x\n#y\n Jan 27 09:25:15 :) Jan 27 09:25:22 (yeah, i'll write it eventually Jan 27 09:26:01 actually, it should probably also lose # lines before 'unused string' Jan 27 09:26:01 you want to put a # on the beggining of every line? ;] Jan 27 09:26:23 only lines that don't begin w/ a #, and only in 'paragraphs that have # UNUSED STRING' Jan 27 09:26:24 Macer: mer is more ubuntu than maemo and more maemo than ubuntu :P (.. or it will be) Jan 27 09:26:33 i.e. stop #'ing at first blank line Jan 27 09:26:36 timeless: pogrep looks nice Jan 27 09:27:15 will it tell me if strings are used anywhere? :) Jan 27 09:27:28 heh Jan 27 09:27:40 (mxr can tell me that) Jan 27 09:27:49 if the answer is 16 files, then the answer is 'no' Jan 27 09:27:50 well... i want to try it out Jan 27 09:27:53 well it can also do inverse match :P Jan 27 09:28:19 if i can tether it to my g1 using the adhoc connection then it would be worth it Jan 27 09:28:35 how is the hw support going? Jan 27 09:28:47 sts: so... --search=notes ? Jan 27 09:28:52 if it is maemoish.. can i use my su8w? Jan 27 09:28:58 no Jan 27 09:29:05 i can't figure out how to make it do something remotely useful Jan 27 09:29:29 http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/pogrep Jan 27 09:29:42 oh Jan 27 09:29:44 it's the -e bit? Jan 27 09:30:01 i think when i get home im going to try vista on my macbook Jan 27 09:30:09 pogrep --search=notes -e 'UNUSED STRING' Jan 27 09:30:29 i need to adhoc this fucking macbook Jan 27 09:31:17 adhoc wlan? Jan 27 09:32:05 hmmm Jan 27 09:32:12 moo wazd Jan 27 09:32:29 re Jan 27 09:32:45 RST38h: hey) Check it out: http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/netbook/50234/#comment_1321057 Jan 27 09:33:36 RST38h: I wonder what does he mean with "New Maemo Nokia's" :) Jan 27 09:34:03 * timeless grumbles Jan 27 09:34:12 the best thing for this stuff would be to delete it all Jan 27 09:34:31 anyone know if any open source code is stupid enough to use nokia localization files/ Jan 27 09:34:35 (excluding mer) Jan 27 09:39:32 timeless: well, we only get the engineering english Jan 27 09:39:39 with !!!'s and everything Jan 27 09:39:58 suihkulokki, or someone else Jan 27 09:40:01 could you please explain: Jan 27 09:40:03 org.freedesktop.DBus.GLib.UnmappedError.BackgroundManagerErrorQuark.Code2 Jan 27 09:40:33 timeless: star trek fans? Jan 27 09:40:34 :P Jan 27 09:40:57 for people curious, this is from http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/search?string=CORRUPTED_TEXT Jan 27 09:41:01 or there abouts Jan 27 09:42:34 i'll settle for "what in the world is a BackgroundManagerErrorQuark and how can i get one?" Jan 27 09:43:43 no idea ;) Jan 27 09:55:50 hey Jan 27 09:55:55 is osso-notes open source? :) Jan 27 09:56:43 morning Jan 27 09:58:37 timeless: don't think so Jan 27 10:02:35 * timeless ponders Jan 27 10:02:40 we're at about bug 4050 Jan 27 10:02:48 should i try to file bug 5000 before fosdem? :) Jan 27 10:03:05 (and yes, i'm pretty sure i could do it if i tried) Jan 27 10:05:27 * timeless chuckles Jan 27 10:05:29 this should be fun Jan 27 10:05:36 anyone want to try to break notes? :) Jan 27 10:05:50 oh, sorry, not notes, sketch Jan 27 10:06:53 that isn't particularly difficult to do :P Jan 27 10:07:00 yeah, but you're not trying :) Jan 27 10:07:11 * Stskeeps is a big fan of xournal or maemopad+ :P Jan 27 10:08:00 i think that if you have no disk space and 'background kill' sketch Jan 27 10:08:07 you should get an 'amusing' error message Jan 27 10:09:28 "timeless: get your hand out of my ass" ? Jan 27 10:10:19 mornin :D Jan 27 10:10:22 How much longer will a VIA C7 last versus an OMAP 2420, on the same battery? Jan 27 10:10:55 sandman2: i think 99% of the people you'll find deal w/ software Jan 27 10:10:57 not hardware Jan 27 10:11:23 timeless, you are goin to fosdem arent you Jan 27 10:11:29 yep Jan 27 10:12:52 oooh its a weekend, i didnt realise Jan 27 10:12:57 yes, always Jan 27 10:13:08 heh not used to it Jan 27 10:13:27 the only 2 ive been two were weekdays Jan 27 10:13:33 it isn't in my calendar, but i bought tickets and made arrangements for where to stay Jan 27 10:13:45 those wouldn't have been fosdem... faiu Jan 27 10:13:53 no :) Jan 27 10:14:14 mind you, this time last year i had only just got my device Jan 27 10:14:24 and still no divorce Jan 27 10:14:29 wow Jan 27 10:14:31 i think i had barely gotten past pythonn Jan 27 10:14:48 anyone want to try to break notes? :) <<< try mnotes 0.3.0-3 Jan 27 10:14:51 :) Jan 27 10:15:12 khertan: hrm Jan 27 10:15:23 hi :) Jan 27 10:15:41 timeless, wow at pupnik, or me Jan 27 10:15:44 hiya pupnik btw Jan 27 10:15:45 you Jan 27 10:15:47 and khertan Jan 27 10:15:56 khertan: is that in garage? Jan 27 10:16:04 it wasn't in garage the last time i slurped it Jan 27 10:16:20 :) Jan 27 10:16:29 hum... euh ... in garage ? the source is in svn ... and in maemo extras-devel Jan 27 10:17:07 which svn repo? Jan 27 10:17:21 https://garage.maemo.org/svn/mnotes Jan 27 10:17:26 that's garage Jan 27 10:17:46 i think i would be more inclined to come to fosdem if i could get to a nice level. unfortunately im behind schedule Jan 27 10:17:57 * lcuk will have to check (and scroll) his calendar Jan 27 10:17:57 yep Jan 27 10:18:29 hrm, most be relatively new Jan 27 10:18:37 i only have 661 projects in garage Jan 27 10:18:39 yep :) Jan 27 10:18:43 and that isn't among them Jan 27 10:18:52 i commit it this morning Jan 27 10:19:28 any idea what project number garage is at? Jan 27 10:19:39 yep i know also that not all my project is in garage yet Jan 27 10:20:01 mnotes ? #835 Jan 27 10:20:35 * lcuk is pleased only 1 of his projects is in garage. Jan 27 10:20:55 my mind would asplode if i put all of them there and had to manage them Jan 27 10:21:08 héhé Jan 27 10:21:15 same things for me ... Jan 27 10:21:31 but i ve test a script to automatically update to svn :) Jan 27 10:21:39 my different project Jan 27 10:24:15 Khertan_n810, pm :) Jan 27 10:25:26 sandman2: omap2 can last for several days without a charge Jan 27 10:25:29 khertan: well, my script defaulted to a ceiling of 800 Jan 27 10:25:35 so it wasn't going to automatically find 835 :) Jan 27 10:25:47 * timeless waits as it runs through them Jan 27 10:26:27 * lcuk vanishes again. Jan 27 10:26:51 * lcuk ctrl-c's timelesses sccript before he goes Jan 27 10:27:08 lcuk: too late :) Jan 27 10:27:16 timeless@swift:/home/svn/world-all/garage% ps|wc -l Jan 27 10:27:16 84 Jan 27 10:27:23 those are all attacking garage svn :) Jan 27 10:28:21 timeless: top - 12:28:08 up 138 days, 5:02, 1 user, load average: 9.38, 8.32, 4.93 Jan 27 10:28:30 Total: 180 processes, 375 lwps, load averages: 0.73, 0.47, 0.28 Jan 27 10:28:41 timeless: Yes, but that was garage ;) Jan 27 10:28:41 what the heck are you doing to that box? Jan 27 10:28:47 oh Jan 27 10:28:55 ok, so that's *me* :) Jan 27 10:28:59 * timeless is so proud of swift Jan 27 10:29:38 down to 48, 47 Jan 27 10:29:56 timeless: so swift is back? Jan 27 10:30:12 well, kinda. working on it Jan 27 10:30:19 it's answering limited questions internally Jan 27 10:30:27 i need to figure out what i was supposed to do to index the sdk Jan 27 10:30:35 i slurped the sdk .deb's on friday or so Jan 27 10:30:44 so i can point it at the local copy (if i can find that!) Jan 27 10:30:53 ok, sounds pretty good :-) Jan 27 10:31:34 * timeless grumbles Jan 27 10:31:40 i think i need to be root or something Jan 27 10:31:53 * Stskeeps notes to himself zip -r0D isn't the same as -r9D Jan 27 10:34:53 * Jucato shyly waves.. new n810 user Jan 27 10:35:12 welcome, have you upgraded to the latest os? Jan 27 10:35:20 yep Jan 27 10:35:35 5.2008.43-7? Jan 27 10:35:43 correct Jan 27 10:35:59 * timeless shrugs Jan 27 10:36:03 it sounded like a good question ;-) Jan 27 10:36:16 thanks :) Jan 27 10:36:37 I had a bit of guidance in the beginning from a fellow n810 user :) Jan 27 10:37:08 timeless@swift:/home/svn/world-all/garage% jobs|wc -l Jan 27 10:37:08 5 Jan 27 10:37:14 the garage attack should be nearly over :) Jan 27 10:37:29 * timeless kicks khertan Jan 27 10:37:53 khertan: could i possibly interest you in a saner file system structure? Jan 27 10:37:58 I have a quick question (although I already have a feeling that the answer is "no"...): I know I can use Yahoo!Messenger using Pidgin. but is there a way to integrate my yahoo account/contacts with maemo? Jan 27 10:38:04 one which doesn't litter the root of your tree w/ binary files? Jan 27 10:38:29 jucato: google talk contacts are imported in maemo Jan 27 10:38:36 so the theoretical answer should be 'yes' Jan 27 10:39:02 from a 'what can you do out of the box', i wouldn't know Jan 27 10:39:08 * timeless happily doesn't use ymail Jan 27 10:39:08 hm... Jan 27 10:39:17 I don't use the mail either :) Jan 27 10:39:31 but the messenger is the standard in this country (unfortunately...) Jan 27 10:39:33 * timeless is too old for yim Jan 27 10:39:36 aim :) Jan 27 10:39:46 (and icq) Jan 27 10:40:10 i am trying to get Scratchbox Remote Shell to work, and keep getting following error: Jan 27 10:40:12 Jucato: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ Jan 27 10:40:13 sbrsh server: Can't change root directory to: /var/sbrshd/username@192.168.2.14/sshfs-target (No such file or directory) Jan 27 10:41:12 X-Fade: thanks! I'll take a look into it Jan 27 10:41:34 Jucato: Using telepathy-haze, you should be able to do just that. Jan 27 10:41:42 awesome :) Jan 27 10:42:53 oh.. red pill mode... sounds ominous :) Jan 27 10:49:20 andre__/et al, i'd like to create an mnotes component in bugs:extras Jan 27 10:49:26 Khertan_n810: =) Jan 27 10:49:35 this way i can file bugs against khertan :) Jan 27 10:50:02 * timeless really needs to write a script for that Jan 27 10:50:18 timeless, just do it (creating the component, but the script part also sounds nice) ;-) Jan 27 10:50:57 andre__: btw, are there any discontinued products that *will* see development? :) Jan 27 10:51:06 (read teh classification description for x-graveyard) Jan 27 10:52:07 probably not. but redundancy might be helpful for the average eye ;-) Jan 27 10:52:15 better punctuation would be better Jan 27 10:52:19 also Jan 27 10:52:26 suppose there's a nokia project which isn't maemo official Jan 27 10:52:31 where does it live? :) Jan 27 10:53:13 (assume it's in extras) Jan 27 10:53:17 shrug. i can think about that when it exists Jan 27 10:55:15 i wonder whether internet tablet video converter belongs to that category Jan 27 10:55:33 yes Jan 27 10:57:00 ok, i'm in a giving mood Jan 27 10:57:15 anyone want to name 3-5 projects that are vaguely active in garage which could use products? Jan 27 10:57:21 speak now, or wait a month Jan 27 11:00:01 could use products? Jan 27 11:00:46 wazd: have you made any changes? I switched it to using a table full stop, rather than the wiki syntax. Still got some bugs but they should be easy to track down Jan 27 11:01:05 keesj: https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Extras Jan 27 11:01:21 if you know of a garage thing that could use repesentation, you have 20mins Jan 27 11:02:13 wazd: might be better to switch to a full CSS-based, rather than tables Jan 27 11:05:10 re Jan 27 11:05:23 timeless: sorry was busy Jan 27 11:05:30 khertan: enjoy, now you have your own product Jan 27 11:05:53 khertan: you should visit https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email Jan 27 11:06:01 in users to watch: Jan 27 11:06:06 add the qa contacts from your product Jan 27 11:06:15 https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=mNotes Jan 27 11:06:28 ok? Jan 27 11:06:59 what is the prob ? Jan 27 11:07:15 if you don't do that, you won't find out about bugs people report :) Jan 27 11:10:06 jaffa: ok, i'm attacking garage again Jan 27 11:10:22 Total: 1570 processes, 1765 lwps, load averages: 32.10, 7.56, 2.64 Jan 27 11:10:53 re Jan 27 11:11:01 sorry ... i come back with a better client Jan 27 11:11:10 at least not a web one Jan 27 11:11:21 *** Notice -- This gateway is temporarily blocked due to abuse. Apologies for the inconvenience! Jan 27 11:11:45 timeless : could you repeat after : " in users to watch:" Jan 27 11:11:46 ? Jan 27 11:11:47 :) Jan 27 11:12:02 add the qa contacts from your product Jan 27 11:12:04 https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=mNotes Jan 27 11:12:09 ok? Jan 27 11:12:13 if you don't do that, you won't find out about bugs people report :) Jan 27 11:13:14 hum Jan 27 11:14:17 notes component ? Jan 27 11:14:17 ping ? Jan 27 11:14:17 ping ! Jan 27 11:14:24 lol Jan 27 11:14:24 um Jan 27 11:14:30 stupid web client Jan 27 11:14:32 is that lag? Jan 27 11:14:35 yep Jan 27 11:14:39 nice Jan 27 11:14:42 yep Jan 27 11:17:02 376 or so updates running atm :) Jan 27 11:17:09 a couple flies dropping every few moments Jan 27 11:19:33 hrm, swift is too busy to talk to me :( Jan 27 11:22:17 * timeless frowns Jan 27 11:22:18 ok Jan 27 11:22:21 you're in a file picker Jan 27 11:22:28 and the folder you're looking at disappeared Jan 27 11:22:34 the file picker wants to tell you this Jan 27 11:22:40 what should it say? Jan 27 11:23:25 `omgwtfdisappearingfolders!' Jan 27 11:23:31 (sorry) Jan 27 11:23:35 it's ok Jan 27 11:23:40 we have similar text in the product Jan 27 11:23:44 (diablo) Jan 27 11:23:44 haha Jan 27 11:23:59 `The selected folder does not exist anymore' ? Jan 27 11:24:12 that sounds vaguely useful Jan 27 11:24:20 the current text iirc Jan 27 11:24:23 is something like: Jan 27 11:24:26 folder not found. Jan 27 11:24:30 device switched to another folder. Jan 27 11:24:31 -- Jan 27 11:24:37 don't ask me what a device is Jan 27 11:24:41 i'd have to check the manual Jan 27 11:24:57 ah Jan 27 11:25:01 (to everyone else, if i have to look it up, that means it's an awful choice of words) Jan 27 11:25:06 well, the device you're holding Jan 27 11:25:19 `The selected folder does not exist anymore, switched to another folder' ? Jan 27 11:25:24 `The selected folder does not exist anymore, switched to another folder instead' ? Jan 27 11:25:28 but that's long Jan 27 11:25:37 when was the last time your ipod/iphone talked about itself as a 'device'? :) Jan 27 11:26:07 * Stskeeps 's gf calls his tablet "your device" Jan 27 11:26:08 :P Jan 27 11:26:27 affectionately or as a curse? Jan 27 11:26:33 :) Jan 27 11:26:37 "your [bleeping] device is distracting you from me" Jan 27 11:26:37 affectionately or neutral Jan 27 11:26:46 "how dare you spend so much time with your device" Jan 27 11:26:58 timeless i don't understand how to change the email on bug Jan 27 11:27:05 khertan: err Jan 27 11:27:06 `My device is better than yours' Jan 27 11:27:11 timeless: it usually helps in arguments she has various addictions to tv series Jan 27 11:27:12 I refer to most of my devices as devices. Jan 27 11:27:29 Tablets, laptops, phones, etc. Jan 27 11:27:42 khertan: what are you trying to do? Jan 27 11:27:49 did you visit user prefs? Jan 27 11:28:03 you know, one thing, why the f*k doesn't /sys have device nodes in it? Jan 27 11:28:13 i mean, it has the references, but actual device nodes could be useful Jan 27 11:28:19 "Current folder disappeared.\n" Jan 27 11:28:19 "Switching to another folder." Jan 27 11:28:20 ? Jan 27 11:28:31 or Switched Jan 27 11:28:54 "Selected another folder." Jan 27 11:30:01 http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-application-manager-2.1.16/src/util.cc?mark=2778-2779#2760 Jan 27 11:30:07 2778 annoy_user (dgettext ("hildon-common-strings", Jan 27 11:30:07 2779 "sfil_ni_cannot_open_no_connection"), Jan 27 11:30:07 2780 fail_copy_cont, NULL); Jan 27 11:30:12 2. note that mNotes won't work well w/ Mer Jan 27 11:30:12 because it assumes /home/user. which I believe Mer wants to get away from Jan 27 11:30:12 you should get the user's home directory some other way Jan 27 11:30:24 hum ... yep ... all my apps work like that Jan 27 11:31:08 morning all Jan 27 11:31:44 timeless ... why do you want to downgrade ? Jan 27 11:31:51 just to annoy you :) Jan 27 11:32:05 i don't intend to install the software atm Jan 27 11:32:08 lol but yep ... this could be a problem Jan 27 11:32:14 but it's fun to read code and point out problems Jan 27 11:32:15 Stskeeps: ping Jan 27 11:32:32 'your db update code is cute' thx ... but i found it not really good Jan 27 11:32:59 Also note that you have the same sort of code in mnotes_framework as make, this Jan 27 11:33:00 probably indicates you should have a module :) Jan 27 11:33:02 true too :) Jan 27 11:34:38 lardman: pong, snapshot in 5 Jan 27 11:34:46 Stskeeps: good stuff :) Jan 27 11:35:20 Stskeeps: I was really going to ask if you'd thought of an online repo, then various people can submit updates packages, etc., in the same way extras works Jan 27 11:35:55 lardman: yeah, we're going to have that more visible when we move on to maemo.org (when i write an email outlining what is needed..) Jan 27 11:36:02 lardman: and a small bunch of people have upload rights Jan 27 11:36:06 already, so Jan 27 11:36:08 yep Jan 27 11:36:12 ok Jan 27 11:36:14 timeless : maybe it s fun ... but it s still help :) Jan 27 11:36:17 lardma: what is this? Jan 27 11:36:25 khertan: =) Jan 27 11:36:27 timeless: Mer Jan 27 11:36:39 lardman: re-run installer, when it asks for mirror, use URL=http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-armel-n800-image-snap4.tar.gz Jan 27 11:36:39 timeless: but one question why created a product in bugs.maemo.org Jan 27 11:36:46 it should be in garage no ? Jan 27 11:36:48 no Jan 27 11:36:52 garage is dead for bug tracking Jan 27 11:36:55 lardman, havent you just recreated the maemo repository Jan 27 11:36:56 ah Jan 27 11:37:05 Stskeeps: Will do this arvo, had to swap cards back so I can listen to mp3s at work Jan 27 11:37:07 if you have a thing in garage, please kill it Jan 27 11:37:23 :) all my other products have bug tracking in garage Jan 27 11:37:24 lardman: and you don't have to re-run refresh_bootmenu.d, just re-run installer :) Jan 27 11:37:24 :) Jan 27 11:37:24 i'm going to slowly whack the rest of garage's bug tracker Jan 27 11:37:32 Stskeeps: can I download and use file:/// syntax for that url? Jan 27 11:37:41 khertan: poke me in a few hours, and i'll fix that Jan 27 11:37:41 lardman: whatever wget takes Jan 27 11:37:55 lcuk: pretty much, but for the community stuff Jan 27 11:38:07 lardman: you can also mkfs.ext3 the partition yourself, tar pzxvf the file and passwd root Jan 27 11:38:10 same effect Jan 27 11:38:11 :P Jan 27 11:38:16 lcuk: I was thinking of using the same infrastructure actually, just add a new dir Jan 27 11:38:17 anyway, gotta go Jan 27 11:38:24 i should be tired i can browse the product list in bugzilla Jan 27 11:38:39 yeah lardman, os2007 os2008 mer fremantle Jan 27 11:38:48 *m5 Jan 27 11:38:57 yep Jan 27 11:39:29 but I'm just a meddling outsider atm, making annoying suggestions ;) Jan 27 11:39:33 * lcuk eats a big blt Jan 27 11:39:46 though as I'm trying to setup, I'd like it to be easy for people to get into it, etc Jan 27 11:40:05 lardman :) ease of use is *primary* to uptake Jan 27 11:40:18 Stskeeps: that image is n800, any major diff between that an n810? Jan 27 11:40:20 the simpler it is to get involved the better :) Jan 27 11:40:27 +1 Jan 27 11:40:28 lardman: mistake on my part, it's n8x0 Jan 27 11:40:33 cool Jan 27 11:40:34 moo, lardman-lcuk-Khertan-Sts-all Jan 27 11:40:38 moo RST38h Jan 27 11:40:46 moo too Jan 27 11:40:47 oink! Jan 27 11:40:54 mmm, bacon Jan 27 11:41:05 (well i couldnt use anything else could i :D) Jan 27 11:41:10 * lcuk might have a pig as mascot Jan 27 11:42:12 i walked through a number of scenarios and ideas last night Jan 27 11:42:49 pink floyd base? Jan 27 11:42:52 * lcuk is pleased with his conclusions, i just wish i could code fast enough to realize them in time for fosdem Jan 27 11:43:03 you going? Jan 27 11:43:22 no, i wont have anything to show Jan 27 11:43:48 its a shame, i wanted to meet ssvb and timeless is gonna be there (i could grab a 770) and quim and stuff :) Jan 27 11:43:55 * Khertan hate bugzilla Jan 27 11:44:05 but i would prefer to have the new stuff to show and tell :) Jan 27 11:44:48 maybe though i can discuss the backend library Jan 27 11:44:51 thats feasible Jan 27 11:45:21 * lcuk curses not having time Jan 27 11:45:25 * lcuk wishes he was timeless Jan 27 11:45:38 are you completely sure about that? Jan 27 11:45:39 :P Jan 27 11:46:14 yeah you are probably right, i would spend my days trying to break stuff (best way to be actually, assume failure by default is best way to get secure apps) Jan 27 11:46:46 timeless, did you used to use a magnifying glass on bugs when you were younger (or even yesterday?) Jan 27 11:46:53 how can i change the Default QA Contact for a product ? Jan 27 11:48:28 * Khertan is going to eat Jan 27 12:01:17 hmm, what is OMAP3 device for which maemo5 is targeted? Jan 27 12:01:49 rmrfchik: unknown device as of yet (RX-51) Jan 27 12:02:18 sad, n810 is not target for maemo :( Jan 27 12:02:26 that's what Mer is for :P Jan 27 12:02:26 maemo5 i mean Jan 27 12:02:32 bringing fremantle components to n810 Jan 27 12:02:50 will smth be losed? Jan 27 12:03:11 So...the items in the "menu"...some I like...some I don't. I don't really want some of them...is there a way to remove them? Jan 27 12:06:40 rmrfchik: Yes...Will Smith lost? Jan 27 12:09:28 rmrfchik: good question :P what do you use? Jan 27 12:12:38 Stskeeps: Do you know how to remove menu entries? Is it even possible? Jan 27 12:12:45 LinuxHack3r: there's a control panel thing Jan 27 12:13:03 Stskeeps: ALL I can do Is move things around....cannot remove them? Jan 27 12:13:10 LinuxHack3r: good question Jan 27 12:13:12 brb Jan 27 12:18:58 LinuxHack3r: only way is to remove the app or delete its .desktop entry Jan 27 12:19:11 * Jucato waves at Sho_ Jan 27 12:19:23 morning johnx Jan 27 12:19:28 hey Jan 27 12:20:19 is there anything besides ssh-server where we want the configure stage to run on the user's tabler? Jan 27 12:20:25 or move it to an unexisting category Jan 27 12:20:47 johnx: can't think of any atm Jan 27 12:20:48 but with a SuP3rH4x0r name you should know how to do that ? Jan 27 12:20:58 * Sho_ waves at Jucato Jan 27 12:23:07 johnx: Where is the .desktop entry? I can just move it to a "backup" location, can't i? Jan 27 12:23:34 LinuxHack3r: /usr/share/applications/hildon Jan 27 12:23:48 yeah,making a backup is a good idea Jan 27 12:24:10 dont remember if you need to do something to regen the menu after...hmmm Jan 27 12:24:25 Stskeeps: also, i was thinking about some kind of way to handle machine features Jan 27 12:24:30 perhaps an on and off will work ;) Jan 27 12:24:58 johnx: well, imager can add config if need be Jan 27 12:26:11 Stskeeps: I suppose yeah...but what about a script that needs to act differently at runtime (thinking about mouse pointer on non-touch screen) Jan 27 12:26:30 or h-i-m on devices with keyboards Jan 27 12:27:10 mm Jan 27 12:27:22 dur...I guess HAL would be the right way. i never think of tthings like that til i type my question Jan 27 12:27:26 lshal? Jan 27 12:27:38 right :) Jan 27 12:28:05 scan for touchscreen maybe :P Jan 27 12:28:41 yeah. i just remebered hal but totally forgot about lshal Jan 27 12:31:53 afternoon crashanddie :) Jan 27 12:33:43 lo wazd Jan 27 12:34:16 Back :) Jan 27 12:34:44 hey wazd :) Jan 27 12:35:12 Jaffa: I really don't get where's the bug :( I checked the code 10000 times - it looks fine for me :( Jan 27 12:35:39 wazd: I know that feeling Jan 27 12:36:10 And why the hell Wiki does not support background image for table or div Jan 27 12:36:32 It's almost lmposible to do scalable design without htat function Jan 27 12:36:51 wazd: Because 9i'd allow spamming or whatever Jan 27 12:36:57 or goatse! Jan 27 12:37:07 . Jan 27 12:37:27 wazd: it's now using a table and has a different bug ;-) Jan 27 12:38:23 hmm, does extras accept packages which has non-build dependancies that cannot be satisfied? Jan 27 12:39:01 Stskeeps: Nope. Jan 27 12:39:08 Those need to be uploaded first. Jan 27 12:39:13 X-Fade: mmk Jan 27 12:39:29 X-Fade: so if my final package depends on something, it checks if it's possible to satisfy? Jan 27 12:40:43 Stskeeps: It checks build-depends and dependencies.. Jan 27 12:40:45 k Jan 27 12:40:51 well then, need to put bootmenu in extras :) Jan 27 12:41:14 Stskeeps: At least in extras-devel. ;) Jan 27 12:41:17 yeah, -devel :P Jan 27 12:41:23 * Stskeeps wonders how much havoc that will cause Jan 27 12:41:55 Well, as long as you don't promote it to Extras yet, you should be safe. Jan 27 12:43:11 Stskeeps: then we just need to push mer as an ssu and ... :D Jan 27 12:43:31 hehe Jan 27 12:46:35 sry, was afk Jan 27 12:46:38 whoa, something has changed :) Jan 27 12:46:57 Stskeeps: I mean, will any new good features be lost? Jan 27 12:47:13 rmrfchik: well, depends on what we can make work and what nokia allows us to distribute Jan 27 12:47:16 for now I use mapper, fbreader, music player Jan 27 12:47:28 first two should be fine, media player or music player? Jan 27 12:49:19 gah, pouring rain here. :/ that's what i get for not leaving work early Jan 27 12:49:41 Stskeeps: canola2 Jan 27 12:49:49 rmrfchik: it'll hopefully be OSS soon Jan 27 12:50:16 yeah, really looking forward to an open source canola Jan 27 12:50:38 who's doing something with my sandbox?) Jan 27 12:51:07 builtin media player is totally useless for me. it cant' plays music from card. Jan 27 12:51:38 and I eager to see keepassx on my n810 Jan 27 12:55:40 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/keepassx/0.3.4-1/+build/787025 Jan 27 12:56:01 looks quite big with QT though Jan 27 12:57:18 khertan? Jan 27 12:57:28 you only need to fill yourself in as the assignee Jan 27 12:57:34 you should really leave the qa contact in its default value Jan 27 12:58:12 wazd: I suggest you throw away uthe images for the corners and uise -moz-border-radisu, -webkit-border-radius and border-radius; then you've got 1 image for the logo, one image for each of the buttons Jan 27 12:59:49 rmrfchik: can't play music from card? What do you mean? Jan 27 13:00:29 Jaffa: does this stuff works with IE? Jan 27 13:01:49 Yahoo! http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer Jan 27 13:02:15 why the black background btw? Jan 27 13:02:20 so, any bets on how long a native build of qt4.5 will take? I'll be trying a build of it on my n800 later Jan 27 13:02:23 That was tough experience)) Jan 27 13:02:30 johnx: why? :P Jan 27 13:02:38 isn't it in ports ubuntu? :P Jan 27 13:03:09 johnx: the LHC will get there first, most likely Jan 27 13:03:20 Stskeeps: cause black text on black background is cool xD Jan 27 13:03:33 wazd: yeah but mixed with the rest of wiki page.. Jan 27 13:03:52 Stskeeps: i thought qt for maemo had some tweaks to auto-hildonize stuff Jan 27 13:03:58 johnx: true Jan 27 13:04:01 who cares bout rest of wiki page :) Jan 27 13:04:06 qwerty12: i know why nit-kernelcompat fails to boot Jan 27 13:04:13 qwerty12: lack of mtdblock0 etc in /dev Jan 27 13:04:16 And this stuff actually isn't finished yet Jan 27 13:04:19 Stskeeps, wtf Jan 27 13:04:34 qwerty12: remember this time its before udev Jan 27 13:04:50 anyways, headed home :) back in an hour or so Jan 27 13:05:08 Stskeeps, hrm, I'll try and get a /dev dump or somewhat Jan 27 13:05:36 qwerty12: or i can just MAKEDEV as part of imaging process Jan 27 13:05:50 worksforme :) Jan 27 13:14:36 qwerty12: which mtdblock is it we use? Jan 27 13:14:45 mtdblock4 Jan 27 13:14:48 k Jan 27 13:20:53 wazd: no, in IE6/7 you wouldn't get curved corners. Don't tell me you're one of those designers where it has top be pixel perfect for everyone? Remember that alpha-transparent PNGs need to be used anyway, so that it doesn't look really crap when the new maemo.org look comes in Jan 27 13:22:01 Jaffa: it was a real surprise that maemo.org doesn't have IE png patches enabled btw :) Jan 27 13:23:19 qwerty12: can you grab me major,minor of the mtdblock devices? Jan 27 13:24:18 Stskeeps, http://pastebin.com/d316f858f Jan 27 13:24:40 ta Jan 27 13:25:23 Jaffa: there are more sophisticated problems right now :) Like "how to align menu to the center" :) Jan 27 13:26:46 lardman: it doesn't see my mp3 files. Jan 27 13:27:00 lardman: and it hasn't UI to open files from file system Jan 27 13:27:11 wazd: specify the width of the containing div/ul exactly and then use margin-left and margin-right: auto. Jan 27 13:27:28 dneary: I've just responded to Jarmo's email. Something to add to the agenda at 1400? Jan 27 13:27:30 Jaffa: oh) Jan 27 13:27:53 rmrfchik: works for me Jan 27 13:27:56 Jaffa: No, it is a topic for -developers. Jan 27 13:28:12 rmrfchik: menu > clip > open ?? Jan 27 13:28:17 Jaffa: Just catching up with email, haven't read it yet Jan 27 13:28:29 lardman: it is for open one clip, isn't? Jan 27 13:28:37 Jaffa: We really need to see quite some interest to even warrant the effort of implementing that ;) Jan 27 13:28:56 X-Fade: Isn't Jarmo in charge of maemo.nokia.com? Jan 27 13:29:00 Jaffa: This testing is hardcore testing, which I haven't seen in _any_ community project yet ;) Jan 27 13:29:06 rmrfchik: yes that is, but the media crawler should just add them to its list Jan 27 13:29:18 rmrfchik: eject the card then re-insert and it should do it's job Jan 27 13:29:18 it doesn't Jan 27 13:29:19 X-Fade: No, I didn't mean the testing one (although that was a surprise to me, must've missed some earlier emails) Jan 27 13:29:31 rmrfchik: you didn't disable it did you? Jan 27 13:29:32 and what is it -- media crawler? where can I find it? Jan 27 13:29:36 1 2 3 testing testing Jan 27 13:29:37 built-in Jan 27 13:29:37 Jaffa: No, he's working in the DP team. He's responsible for SDK and documentation IIRC. Jan 27 13:29:38 dunno. how to check? Jan 27 13:29:41 X-Fade: I mean his -community one about maemo.org having to deal with developers who want to get reference documentation and/or SDKs Jan 27 13:29:42 is this on? Jan 27 13:29:45 if you don't know then it should be ok Jan 27 13:29:49 test_016: sortof Jan 27 13:29:49 X-Fade: Ah, that's less of a panic then :-) Jan 27 13:29:58 ahhh yes, i see jaffa and lardman Jan 27 13:30:08 and you stskeeps Jan 27 13:30:12 Jaffa: whoa, works, thanks!) Jan 27 13:30:14 Jaffa: I'm all for setting this up if there is an actual need for it. Jan 27 13:30:37 Jaffa: But I seriously doubt that anybody will use it.. Jan 27 13:30:52 rmrfchik: not ideal, it would be good to have a manual re-scan option, etc, but that's it for the time being Jan 27 13:31:09 ok, done testing now. Jan 27 13:31:16 Jaffa: Not saying it isn't a cool thing, but ... :) Jan 27 13:31:19 rmrfchik: add bugs/enhancement requests and hopefully it'll get better next time round :) Jan 27 13:31:21 OT, any of you know a wi-fi PCI card that works as AP under linux? Jan 27 13:31:45 i was meant to be done, does anyone knowwhere penguinbait got this chat thingy from? Jan 27 13:32:12 chathostplus seems like a reasonable guess.. Jan 27 13:32:31 but not sure Jan 27 13:32:42 "VERSION CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06) - http://cgiirc.sf.net/" Jan 27 13:32:42 it doesnt say that from this end, i can see it from my house though Jan 27 13:33:10 http://tablethacker.com/wp/?page_id=30&lang=en-us cool though, it might solve the problems people were haviggn with connecting Jan 27 13:33:19 bbl (its lcuk btw) Jan 27 13:33:33 lcuk? who's that? Jan 27 13:33:48 (it is i, le clerc) Jan 27 13:34:05 * qwerty12 was expecting a southerner comment :P Jan 27 13:34:16 lol Jan 27 13:34:16 check eee's not reaaallly a German Jan 27 13:34:20 france is southern Jan 27 13:34:30 lardman: I wait for maemo5 ;) Jan 27 13:34:51 rmrfchik: really, stick in some bug reports if things annoy you, that was Nokia will know Jan 27 13:34:58 s/was/way Jan 27 13:35:07 +1 Jan 27 13:35:21 if they dont know theres a problem theres no way it can be prioritized to be fixed Jan 27 13:35:27 same with anything Jan 27 13:35:59 * lcuk goes again Jan 27 13:36:07 toilet? Jan 27 13:36:18 avoid the curry Jan 27 13:36:27 ;p Jan 27 13:36:34 it wont be me that comes back in if someone else clicks the link to the chathost, im just seeing if its viable for the meeting Jan 27 13:36:38 Hi Jan 27 13:36:40 ewwwwwww - actually Jan 27 13:36:44 bacon curry! Jan 27 13:36:54 * lardman reduces the level of humour to the standard scatalogical base Jan 27 13:37:10 hey Dave Jan 27 13:37:44 hi dneary :) Jan 27 13:38:40 hi lardman, lcuk Jan 27 13:40:40 dneary: hey there Jan 27 13:40:41 and sure, the most thing I want to see in maemo -- LIGHT SPEED! indeed, on my good old palm m505 (33Mhz!) address book opens in moments. Jan 27 13:40:52 on n810 it all take ages :( Jan 27 13:41:04 it's probably pre-loaded on the Palm Jan 27 13:41:17 rmrfchik: It's always on on Plam Jan 27 13:41:18 no, different architecture Jan 27 13:41:21 technically everything is already loaded on palm, no? Jan 27 13:41:28 glass: indeed Jan 27 13:41:36 really? RAM disk? Jan 27 13:41:38 or XIP? Jan 27 13:41:42 no disk at all Jan 27 13:41:42 XIP Jan 27 13:41:46 right Jan 27 13:41:53 xip + some battery backed memory Jan 27 13:41:56 iirc Jan 27 13:41:57 well that's not going to happen with a JFFS2 fs Jan 27 13:41:58 anyway, on wince IE runs instantly Jan 27 13:42:20 hi wazd Jan 27 13:42:22 well it comes down to two things, pre-loading and XIP abilities Jan 27 13:42:26 wince uses classic approach, but it runs much faster. Jan 27 13:42:30 rmrfchik: that's IE's only function xD Jan 27 13:42:42 Pocket IE sucks more than MicroB Jan 27 13:42:54 yeah, but we're just talking about loading speed Jan 27 13:42:57 So, no wonder it starts quickly. Jan 27 13:43:02 lol Jan 27 13:43:02 Pocket IE is the most horrible browser :) Jan 27 13:43:24 rmrfchik, :) liqbase opens everything nice and fast Jan 27 13:43:30 dude, when I run browser on pocket device I just want to quick pick some usefull info (train schedule, wikipedia, mail). Not full featured browsing Jan 27 13:43:45 rmrfchik: It's bad even for that Jan 27 13:43:46 lcuk: liqbase?? what's it? Jan 27 13:43:56 an idea :) Jan 27 13:44:07 rmrfchik: yeah I get that feeling too Jan 27 13:44:16 a very rough hack of an idea, but its taking shape nicely Jan 27 13:44:16 wazd: it worked for me many times. Jan 27 13:44:26 anyway, bbl again Jan 27 13:45:26 Jaffa: On the test tools? Jan 27 13:45:29 when I changed palm to wince, I escape using PIM (on WinCE it sucks). When I moved to n810 I almost left to browse internet (loading takes ages). Jan 27 13:45:43 rmrfchik: did you try webkit engine yet? Jan 27 13:45:44 I've heard about this before, but haven't really understood what is in question Jan 27 13:45:50 And what I can do to help Jan 27 13:46:00 Stskeeps: not yet. I read on forum, but didn't tried it yet. Jan 27 13:46:18 rmrfchik: you should try. it's like getting a new tablet (it still has glitches, but it's nice) Jan 27 13:46:36 rly? hmm. will try. Jan 27 13:49:06 btw, I read some flash file system allows XIP? Jan 27 13:50:03 mm Jan 27 13:52:25 dneary: no, the website Jan 27 13:52:46 wazd: can i prod you about some quick and dirty artwork? Jan 27 13:52:55 rmrfchik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems#Features Jan 27 13:53:20 X-Fade: agreed, I can't see a whole lot of automated tests being done Jan 27 13:53:43 Jaffa: I'd rather invest the resources in the brainstorm thingie.. Jan 27 13:53:47 Jaffa: OK, see it now Jan 27 13:54:07 I'd have replied "Isn't your usecase 0 just restating my usecase 2?" Jan 27 13:54:13 Jaffa: But if there is a a big demand for it, sure let's do it :) Jan 27 13:55:06 rmrfchik: AXFS Jan 27 13:55:36 Stskeeps: sure Jan 27 13:56:06 wazd: Mer wallpaper, this http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gnome-dialog-error.svg , text: "Incompatible bootmenu used to boot Mer. Rebooting in 15 seconds" Jan 27 13:56:20 800x480 Jan 27 13:56:40 (or a similar icon of your own choosing) Jan 27 14:01:41 Stskeeps: k Jan 27 14:02:11 wazd: thanks in advance :) Jan 27 14:09:46 hmm, Eye and Brain massager: http://www.saverstore.com/productinfo/Product.aspx?product_id=20014118&rstrat=12758 Jan 27 14:10:34 not sure I want my eyes poked by vibrating plastic prongs, let alone my brain! Jan 27 14:10:43 Eye massager? /me shivers Jan 27 14:11:03 lol, the features bit is even better Jan 27 14:11:09 lardman: Does it come out on the other side? Jan 27 14:11:10 Ideal for users of computers, long distance drivers, equipment operators and students and office users alike Jan 27 14:11:15 note the long distance drivers :) Jan 27 14:11:32 RST38h: I don't want to imagine it really! :_ Jan 27 14:14:41 wazd: yeah, your rounded corner images won't look great on a different (non-white) wiki theme :-( Jan 27 14:18:58 * qwerty12 curses hildon file chooser for wanting OK response instead of ACCEPT Jan 27 14:19:19 We have NAND for the main flash? Jan 27 14:21:27 think so Jan 27 14:21:45 ok, just reading about XIP and why NAND is not suitable like NOR is Jan 27 14:23:15 what's that thing that Windows XP does called - caching executable data? Jan 27 14:23:24 preloading probably Jan 27 14:23:28 or prelinking Jan 27 14:23:33 * Stskeeps wonders what people were smoking when they decides 802.11n would require 3-4 antennas Jan 27 14:24:10 yeah, I think it does prelinking then caches the code to a file Jan 27 14:24:19 lardman, it's called prefetch iirc in windows Jan 27 14:24:37 thanks Jan 27 14:24:52 Jaffa: well, it's easy to make reverse Jan 27 14:25:11 here's a linky for anyone interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefetcher Jan 27 14:25:46 "This feature is covered by US patent 6,633,968.[3]" hmm... Jan 27 14:25:51 yeah Jan 27 14:28:13 Linux version: http://code.google.com/p/prefetch/ Jan 27 14:34:55 quite interesting presentation there http://prefetch.googlecode.com/files/gsoc-prefetching-presentation.pdf Jan 27 14:37:46 lardman: The simplest thing would be to keep track of open()s and prefetch those files into disk cache on the next bootup Jan 27 14:38:06 mmap? Jan 27 14:38:22 naah, you do not want to keep them open, just want them in disk cache Jan 27 14:38:33 I meant what if they are mmap'ed? Jan 27 14:38:38 But I am not sure this is all very important though Jan 27 14:38:44 equally, they may be opened and not read Jan 27 14:38:50 lardman: if they are mmapped, nobody will be able to close them Jan 27 14:39:12 sorry, nobody will be able to open them for writing AND they will never get flushed from memory Jan 27 14:39:27 I don't mean that the solution is to mmap them, but you need to see which files are mmaped Jan 27 14:39:39 It really seems easier to me to just never reboot your Linux. Put it into hibernation instead Jan 27 14:40:05 well not just for boot time improvement, also for app startup (which is what we started talking about a while back) Jan 27 14:40:48 well, if it is coming up form hibernation then you either have your apps running already OR they are cached after the last run Jan 27 14:41:02 yeah but not every app is running all the time Jan 27 14:41:20 and if they have been pushed out of the cache... Jan 27 14:41:30 that is totally normal Jan 27 14:41:35 does the hibernation code save the cache? Jan 27 14:41:36 that is what caching algorithm is for Jan 27 14:41:49 it should theoretically save the whole memory snapshot Jan 27 14:42:22 well I could run OO lots, but then load Octave with a really big problem, which will push my OO code out of the cache, even though I often use it Jan 27 14:42:48 lardman: this is normal behaviour Jan 27 14:42:54 where push out of the cache is caused by Octave needing to use the memory, not Octave code replacing the OO code in the cache Jan 27 14:43:03 normal yes, ideal no Jan 27 14:43:04 lardman: You have limited amount of memory, can't preload them both there Jan 27 14:45:09 the other option is to fork from a launcher which is has already loaded shared libs Jan 27 14:45:19 this happens on Maemo now doesn't it? Jan 27 14:45:28 and likewise for the browser Jan 27 14:45:31 Hello Jan 27 14:45:38 hello AndrewFBlack Jan 27 14:45:44 lardman, https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/maemo-launcher/0.21_new_hildon/README ? Jan 27 14:45:47 hi AndrewFBlack Jan 27 14:46:17 lardman: Before you start preloading things, you have to accept that you can't preload everything. Jan 27 14:46:25 indeed Jan 27 14:46:38 but with the cache it doesn't preload, it just keeps stuff loaded Jan 27 14:47:00 lardman; Once this notion is out of the way, note that disk cache replacement algorithm used in Linux is already doing decent job on keeping most often used pages in memory Jan 27 14:47:16 got a question from all you smart people out there is there a way to make an Personal Menu or Personal Launcher entry to lanch a file from a memory card? The file i want to open is a html file also is there any way to do an entry to open a web address? Jan 27 14:47:31 lardman; So, if you preserve disk cache on hibernation, you should be ok Jan 27 14:47:41 AndrewFBlack, easy way is "browser --url=" Jan 27 14:47:52 Andrew: Can't execute stuff from memory cards Jan 27 14:47:55 RST38h: how large is the disk cache? Jan 27 14:48:04 Andrew: But can use it as data input , as qwerty says Jan 27 14:48:14 lardman: Normally, your entire unused memory Jan 27 14:48:24 lardman: At least this is how it works in FreeBSD Jan 27 14:48:35 qwerty12, you put that in as Command to execute? Jan 27 14:48:41 ah yes, the cache is disk cache only, not executable code Jan 27 14:48:42 AndrewFBlack, yes Jan 27 14:49:03 lardman: Yes, we are talking about OS-managed disk page cache here Jan 27 14:49:04 that would work for file and for web address then Jan 27 14:49:36 If file = equals html or somesuch, yes. And yes, it accepts web address too. Jan 27 14:49:49 RST38h: I was thinking of Windows which caches executable code too Jan 27 14:50:07 you know simple things like these would be great to add to wiki for End Users Jan 27 14:50:34 AndrewFBlack: get adding then :) Jan 27 14:53:19 Thanks qwerty12 got it working also lardman I think I will add it Jan 27 14:53:26 AndrewFBlack: the big issue I always find is wondering where to add it, or if to make a new page, and in which case where, etc Jan 27 14:54:48 well we could make a page just for it or we could start a page for Personal Menu tips and tricks there are a few other things that could go on that page like the thing last week about making a volume up and down using pmenu/plauncher Jan 27 14:56:25 lardman: Linux should also cache executable code Jan 27 14:56:38 lardman: it is no different from anything else, same disk pages Jan 27 14:57:31 except there's an extra layer of work inbetween Jan 27 14:59:30 lardman: not really Jan 27 14:59:52 lardman: I *think* you mean strictly preloading certain executables and libraries on startup? Jan 27 14:59:55 cache isn't saved on hibernation Jan 27 15:00:32 serious question about the browser: wtf takes so long to make it start. its a blank page with no media to preload or anything Jan 27 15:00:47 RST38h: the prefetcher loads certain preloads certain sections of files I think Jan 27 15:00:50 ShadowJK: Then saving it may essentially solve the problem. Or, rather, you can save the page list and slowly load it up after you get out of hibernation Jan 27 15:00:57 ShadowJK: cool, I thought I'd read that somewhere Jan 27 15:01:07 lardman: certain sections of files = pages :) Jan 27 15:01:16 RST38h: still won't speed up app load times Jan 27 15:01:27 lardman: It will Jan 27 15:01:32 RST38h: yes, but we're talking about a couple of different approaches here Jan 27 15:01:33 lardman: Consider this: Jan 27 15:01:40 does the brainfuck for start times come from gtk or from the app itself? Jan 27 15:01:46 RST38h: it will only speed up the 2nd load and those afterwards Jan 27 15:02:05 lardman: which is perfectly fine if you never reboot Jan 27 15:02:15 Hibernation roughly works something like this: evict all pages you can, push the rest out to swap until all the ram is free Jan 27 15:02:17 and even then, only if the cache hasn't been purged due to the memory being required Jan 27 15:02:54 lardman: well, you have limited memory, this will affect both approaches Jan 27 15:02:59 an x11 native app starts quickly. liqbase starts quickly. what makes gtk so slow Jan 27 15:03:09 Yep, the biggest limit is the relatively small ram. Jan 27 15:03:15 lcuk: ldd Jan 27 15:03:22 lcuk: and you will see Jan 27 15:03:27 RST38h, nonesense - try it with an x11 app Jan 27 15:03:28 its quick Jan 27 15:03:29 RST38h: agreed, if I want to start my second app as soon as memory is again free for the cache, but not if there's a gap - in that case I could reaload the cache Jan 27 15:03:41 lcuk: Do try ldd on an x11 app and on a gtk app Jan 27 15:03:42 lcuk, strace it :-) Jan 27 15:03:43 sorry :$ i thought ldd was just the thing to run it Jan 27 15:03:59 not my job Shadow__X :) my apps start quickly tyvm Jan 27 15:04:00 firefox was famous for doing some 50,000 open() and even more malloc() on startup Jan 27 15:04:31 i think in part its the translation Jan 27 15:04:51 you have to read and identify and replace the strings from every single component in app Jan 27 15:05:00 and then theres the theming Jan 27 15:05:31 (im thinking in a different way to just trying to cache it) Jan 27 15:05:46 gtk is slow at starting up even if everything is already in ram. Though you lot probably have fast computers so you don't notice it, except maybe on tablet Jan 27 15:05:57 yes Shadowjk Jan 27 15:05:57 lcuk: those pretty gtk themes - try starting a gtk app without any theming Jan 27 15:06:01 so make it fast Jan 27 15:06:11 suihkulokki, im not saying get rid of them Jan 27 15:06:18 im saying make those operations faster Jan 27 15:06:41 windowing applications are not slow on this device Jan 27 15:06:56 gtk also does other fun things. Sometimes it quickly draws gray over the entire window, then slowly fills it black, and then quickly gray, and then starts drawing the widgets, sometimes multiple times :-) Jan 27 15:06:59 its the gubbins that goes ontop that makes them feel slow Jan 27 15:07:17 ShadowJK: why on Earth? Jan 27 15:07:25 ShadowJK, yeah i keep seeing multiple things overlaying my overlay Jan 27 15:07:37 thats the render algo lardman Jan 27 15:07:45 and the way it interacts with x11 and stuff Jan 27 15:07:47 lardman, well you don't notice on a fast system, you don't even notice it on tablet most of the time Jan 27 15:07:50 yeah, but why do that? Jan 27 15:08:10 I'd call it bug Jan 27 15:08:22 ok Jan 27 15:08:31 Try running remote X over a 1mbit link and you can see all the waste :-) Jan 27 15:08:39 cos of the laered way widgets work and update themselves, very tricky to remove in best case without compromising lots of things Jan 27 15:08:55 Amusingly KDE seems faster when actual drawing is expensive, like over remote X Jan 27 15:09:00 :) ShadowJK if every developer worked on such a system x11 would be pristine Jan 27 15:09:30 * RST38h ran X11 over a modem Jan 27 15:09:35 Routinely. Jan 27 15:09:45 gtk would be painful Jan 27 15:09:48 * lcuk tries to work on slowest feasible system possible to ensure when real users get software it works nicely Jan 27 15:10:03 it's the latency that kills, not the bandwidth Jan 27 15:10:45 johnx, the .net IDE in windows suffers from lag :D Jan 27 15:11:41 I heard QT caches things to reduce the amount of roundtrips to X :-) Jan 27 15:11:58 nx would help too...but I never managed to ever get it working right Jan 27 15:12:06 but then again it works on 32bit super bitmaps continuously so sends over 2x as much data :) Jan 27 15:12:10 swings and roundabouts Jan 27 15:13:09 also, I imagine lcuk's apps would be bandwidth limited in X11 :) Jan 27 15:13:11 ~burn .NET IDE Jan 27 15:13:12 * infobot pours gasoline all over .NET IDE, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Jan 27 15:13:14 i know why x11 exists and what it can do, but since 99% of users and time its not required why do we suffer Jan 27 15:13:32 yeah johnx i wholeheartedly agree Jan 27 15:13:40 lcuk, everyone says that at some point Jan 27 15:13:47 lcuk: Why do you suffer, again? Jan 27 15:13:55 cos its slow Jan 27 15:13:56 * RST38h does not get what is wrong with X11 Jan 27 15:13:57 because we can! Jan 27 15:14:01 suboptimal Jan 27 15:14:03 Not slow, works like a charm Jan 27 15:14:30 lcuk: Like throwing bitmaps around, ain't you? =) Jan 27 15:14:30 sorry lcuk. I'm with RST38h here :) Jan 27 15:14:39 am i only asking this because of hte omapfb/blizzard? Jan 27 15:14:39 lcuk: Then use MITSHM. Jan 27 15:15:21 lcuk: My guess is that you are asking it because you play with bitmaps while X11 was primarily designed for vectored graphics and text Jan 27 15:15:23 some people still claim X is slow...and it is slower than writing right on the framebuffer...but it repeat after me: "Abstraction is important" Jan 27 15:15:28 RST38h, throwing bitmaps aint a problem - networking game engines do exist and work well - wow, unreal etc all do rich graphically intensive stuff over a network Jan 27 15:15:39 lcuk: they do not really Jan 27 15:15:43 RST38h, vectors are core to my system Jan 27 15:15:46 garage returns html when I try to download files :/ Jan 27 15:15:54 lcuk: All that rich graphical stuff is present locally. Jan 27 15:16:02 RST38h, I did use Quake3 rendered remotely over 100Mb/s ethernet :) Jan 27 15:16:02 yes i know Jan 27 15:16:12 indirect glx rocks Jan 27 15:16:12 thats the point, the server tells it where to put it Jan 27 15:16:14 johnx: Umghrhr Jan 27 15:16:33 RST38h, was about as fast as VGBA on a tablet... Jan 27 15:16:48 lcuk: If vectors are the core, you can probably use X11 and it won't be slower than your own algorithms Jan 27 15:17:07 Heh. The point I was originally trying to make was that X itself isn't slow, it's the apps that are slow :-) As can be seen by all the pointless stuff they do, which becomes clearly visible once you slow down the computer or the app<->x11 connection enough Jan 27 15:17:17 +1 Jan 27 15:17:49 RST38h, i am mixing up bad graphics experience on the device with x11 itself Jan 27 15:17:54 * lcuk apologises Jan 27 15:17:56 Well, if we are talking FireFox or OpenOffice, I do not think they are slow because of the X11 stuff at all Jan 27 15:18:12 lcuk, you might still find X11 slow in some cases...definitely slower than the framebuffer Jan 27 15:18:19 just strace firefox or ooo startup... the results will make you cry Jan 27 15:18:23 Latest @@&Q#%^%#@ FireFox is slow because it is managing memory aggresively, I think Jan 27 15:18:25 damn Jan 27 15:18:30 and there are valid complaints against it, but it allows such nice tricks, even when used locally Jan 27 15:18:31 my n800 can connect to my G1 Jan 27 15:18:44 That is how Mozilla team "addressed" large memory footprint problem Jan 27 15:18:45 and tether over wifi Jan 27 15:18:49 but the damn kubuntu can not Jan 27 15:18:51 johnx, i overloaded the x buffer on numerous occasions and sent half an update over before i was ready Jan 27 15:19:01 don't know what it is.. it all seems like it should work Jan 27 15:19:26 Macer, STOP. make sure you get a condom, g1 has cooties Jan 27 15:19:30 johnx: Once he starts drawing polygons and lines in that framebuffer, X11 will beat him Jan 27 15:19:43 no rst Jan 27 15:19:45 it doesnt Jan 27 15:19:52 look at what i just said Jan 27 15:19:58 RST38h, well, I think they provided their own malloc() implementation because calling malloc() a million times was too slow. This doesn't quite solve the issue though :-) Jan 27 15:20:06 lcuk: :) no bt dun with a g1 Jan 27 15:20:23 have to use the wifi adhoc method Jan 27 15:20:30 but i sure wish this damn kubuntu would connect to it Jan 27 15:20:37 Macer, oh nice. they found a new way to get root on it? Jan 27 15:20:40 can we install mer on g1 yet? Jan 27 15:21:02 Doesn't ad-hoc use stupid amounts of energy? Jan 27 15:21:08 lcuk, once you get one shipped to me or Stskeeps :P Jan 27 15:21:14 ShadowJK: Sooner or later they still have to go to the crapp^H^H^HAllocMem() Jan 27 15:21:31 mmap() or brk() Jan 27 15:21:31 not paying a 25 plus 500 dollar jailbreak fee Jan 27 15:21:34 ShadowJK: And I get random <1s hangups. Jan 27 15:21:34 johnx :) Jan 27 15:22:03 * lcuk paid ~£400 to jailbreak his pda Jan 27 15:22:04 RST38h, oh those used to be 1 minute hangups with my old computer and firefox2 :-) Jan 27 15:22:18 lcuk: So, you are drawing polygons faster than X11 own implementation? Jan 27 15:22:46 ShadowJK: Weirdly, FF2 never cause me such problems, but it leaked like crazy so I had to restart it every 4 hours or so Jan 27 15:22:52 RST38h, i use shm and essentially talk to the omapfb which sends data directly to the blizzard lcd driver Jan 27 15:22:54 yes Jan 27 15:23:03 RST38h, well it's more like he shifted the burden to deal with a stupid ball n' chain named 'blizzard' Jan 27 15:23:13 johnx: Ah Jan 27 15:23:25 hey lcuk ... guys :) Jan 27 15:23:30 and doubly so because im sending less data Jan 27 15:23:42 i can have a fullscreen updated and be onto the next one whilst x11 is half done Jan 27 15:23:42 yea, guess so Jan 27 15:23:51 anybody know why the rotation support isnt working after the last SSU ? Jan 27 15:23:54 hiya moontiger :) haven't seen you in a while Jan 27 15:23:59 "drawing polygons" isn't the same as drawing a polygon in a bitmap and sending that to X :) Jan 27 15:24:01 moon: need a new kernel Jan 27 15:24:05 lcuk, been moving to madrid :) Jan 27 15:24:06 and a few other things Jan 27 15:24:14 ooooooh swanky Jan 27 15:24:18 RST38h, ahhhhhhhhh ok Jan 27 15:24:27 you will have to jaiku more often and we will know Jan 27 15:24:33 hehe well i dont know about swanky but its freaking cold Jan 27 15:24:37 lcuk, that's the ticket right there :) if you could use the same visual you are now and still draw your lines with X11 primitives you'd probably see nice performance Jan 27 15:24:42 ShadowJK, i can do the same with bitmaps as well :) Jan 27 15:24:51 jaiku is going bye byes no? i thought google pulled the plug? Jan 27 15:25:04 pulled life support Jan 27 15:25:10 johnx, no it would still pop the x11 buffers and not get through a whole screen in one go Jan 27 15:25:11 No, they're stopping further development; but are open sourcing the code Jan 27 15:25:13 not necessarily killing it outright Jan 27 15:25:23 ahhhhhhhhh i'll re-install it then :) Jan 27 15:25:34 moontiger, psssst its a website :P Jan 27 15:25:49 lcuk, aaah, because you're doing tricks to deal with the ungodly long time it takes to refresh the screen? Jan 27 15:25:51 lcuk, hehe really? is that one of those intertube things? Jan 27 15:25:53 :)~ Jan 27 15:25:56 jaiku.com ;) Jan 27 15:26:14 i was using maiku on my tablet Jan 27 15:26:23 no johnx, because im drawing so many bloody lines - i might be able to find the x11 way of handling it but its not optimal at present Jan 27 15:26:37 huh Jan 27 15:27:01 drawing lots of lines each with a different color Jan 27 15:27:16 there is only a limited amount of x11 buffer space before it pushes them to be drawn Jan 27 15:27:24 so it draws half Jan 27 15:27:30 then finishes drawing Jan 27 15:27:38 instead of a single frame update Jan 27 15:27:52 it comes in waves Jan 27 15:27:53 ah, which just wouldn't matter on most systems Jan 27 15:27:58 yeah Jan 27 15:28:07 iiinteresting Jan 27 15:28:13 its ugly Jan 27 15:28:16 this would explain why my zaurus feels faster sometimes Jan 27 15:28:26 possibly Jan 27 15:28:27 even though every frame drawn has to be rotated on the CPU :> Jan 27 15:28:42 lcuk: X11 has specific APIs for drawing lots of lines :) Jan 27 15:28:59 yes can it change the color of each line as its being drawn as i have to? Jan 27 15:29:05 * lcuk did check such things Jan 27 15:29:19 RST38h, last time I ran oprofile, on otherwise idle system, firefox's XUL shit came up in the top of the list. I don't really know much about what it is or what it's good for, but when I see threads where people want XUL on tablet I just go "huh", thinking that if there's no XUL there, why would they want to add it, seeing it tops CPU usage on my desktop PC :) Jan 27 15:29:23 ie line starts in one color and changes along each point Jan 27 15:29:23 lcuk: Do you do XFlush() or XSync() after each line or at the end of the total batch? Jan 27 15:29:33 end of batch Jan 27 15:29:36 ok Jan 27 15:29:46 but it happens automatically if x11 fills its buffers Jan 27 15:30:05 ShadowJK: Congratulations, as XUL is the quasi-language used for the whole FireFox UI Jan 27 15:30:20 i hope to god this is right, its from vauge memories from right at the start Jan 27 15:30:40 ShadowJK: In other words, no chance of getting rid of it :) Jan 27 15:31:12 lcuk: I do suspect you won't be able to use DrawPoly if you would like to change color on each segment though Jan 27 15:31:13 RST38h, hm, do things like kazehakase use it? Jan 27 15:31:30 yeah RST38h me too, ive never been able to use such apis in windows either Jan 27 15:31:34 ShadowJK: Well, some people found it pretty usable for UI outside FF Jan 27 15:31:44 ShadowJK: It *is* neat, just heavy Jan 27 15:31:53 +1 Jan 27 15:31:58 and its not *that* heavy Jan 27 15:32:06 for what it does Jan 27 15:32:17 anyway, must dash, bbl Jan 27 15:32:20 lcuk, I'm really surprised to hear someone like you say that :) Jan 27 15:32:30 i m using this kernel on n810 - linux Nokia-N810-43-7 2.6.21-omap1 kernel, does it provides bridge support? CONFIG_BRIDGE=y/m? or i will have to get the source and compile my own kernel version and flash it to the device? Jan 27 15:32:30 hm, I need to capture some data for one of those long periods of firefox locking up Jan 27 15:32:31 ever try anything xul based on the tablet? Jan 27 15:33:02 i m trying to use bridge-utils on maemo Jan 27 15:33:18 johnx, just because im very interested in optimization does not mean i dislike scripting :: i just think it works better with an optimized core:: liqbase may very well end up with a scripting language built up around it :) but im not quite sure if i will wire one up just yet :P Jan 27 15:34:06 having everything in C gives many more options for adding bindings for anything I want - i havent restricted myself by writing in something unusable elsewhere Jan 27 15:34:07 ;) Jan 27 15:34:11 cya later Jan 27 15:34:19 'later lcuk :) Jan 27 15:53:42 johnx: http://jaiku.com/channel/mer/presence/52297083 btw Jan 27 15:53:52 priorities? Jan 27 15:53:59 yup, looking at them in order Jan 27 15:54:09 nah, CC NC discussion Jan 27 15:54:20 ah...hmmm Jan 27 15:54:25 i just thought about when seeing licensing on some audio files Jan 27 15:54:44 argh! Jan 27 15:54:51 i can't seem to get kubuntu to work in adhoc mode Jan 27 15:54:56 it's driving me nuts :) Jan 27 15:55:04 (i loathe licenses discussion but i think this one is good to get down before we continue too far with project :) Jan 27 15:55:05 i have no idea why it's not picking it up.. the n800 picks it up fine Jan 27 15:55:17 is there like something special you have to do in ubuntu/kubuntu to get adhoc going? Jan 27 15:55:23 like... insmod adhoc Jan 27 15:55:25 heh Jan 27 15:55:32 Macer: no, should work fine. Wifi driver problem usually Jan 27 15:55:40 "Create new wireless network"? Jan 27 15:55:45 yah Jan 27 15:55:54 it sees the adhoc network Jan 27 15:56:05 but won't connect/acquire ip from the phone Jan 27 15:56:05 Stskeeps, I think it's important to keep things that give us a 'competitive advantage' or that constitute 'differentiation' from being used against us by our competitors Jan 27 15:56:09 * johnx runs :D Jan 27 15:56:19 Stskeeps, I agree with you 100% Jan 27 15:56:26 hehe :P Jan 27 15:56:32 it was just too good to avoid saying Jan 27 15:57:06 Macer, wait, so it won't associate or it doesn't get an IP? Jan 27 15:57:17 * johnx comments on-record Jan 27 15:58:01 i don't think it's associating Jan 27 15:58:11 Macer, what does iwconfig say? Jan 27 15:58:29 when kubuntu tries to connect to the adhoc network it just goes through channels Jan 27 15:58:38 and never connects Jan 27 15:58:54 the n800 just gets right on and works :) Jan 27 15:59:01 i am about to install vista on this macbook Jan 27 15:59:11 i want my laptop to be able to tether to this damn phone heh Jan 27 15:59:21 johnx, are you ill? i thought i saw you vomit a little bit up there Jan 27 15:59:42 lcuk, I couldn't resist the irony :) was too tempting Jan 27 15:59:55 i don't think the kubuntu netwrok-manager actually knows it is an adhoc network Jan 27 16:00:01 its not just irony, its coppery and zincy as well Jan 27 16:00:03 it doesn't seem to change its mode when trying to connect Jan 27 16:00:14 sure wish someone would just make ap software for the g1 :) Jan 27 16:00:18 that would be awesome Jan 27 16:02:22 * lcuk wonders how far into bootup he would need to go before being able to bring up liqbase Jan 27 16:02:50 lcuk: Are you going to compile liqbase into the kernel? =) Jan 27 16:03:18 heh no, but im betting its feasible to bring it up by the time the please wait loading progress bar is visible Jan 27 16:03:42 before the x-server? Jan 27 16:03:53 the progress bar uses x doesnt it? Jan 27 16:03:59 I doubt it Jan 27 16:04:19 if not then it will have to wait Jan 27 16:04:27 ahhh no, you are right, it uses omapfb directly Jan 27 16:04:44 * lcuk remembers reading the code Jan 27 16:05:06 i suppose i could just set omap into the correct stage and get my wiggle on Jan 27 16:05:29 Nokia eats up another small software developer Jan 27 16:05:43 who now? Jan 27 16:05:52 Bit Side - the Nokia Maps people Jan 27 16:06:41 om nom nom Jan 27 16:06:57 There seems to be like a cottage industry of small (5-50 people) companies doing software development for Nokia Jan 27 16:07:23 RST38h, thats because nokia has a large collection of devices requiring software developed for it Jan 27 16:07:25 I guess Nokia eats them up when they see danger of them going astray =) Jan 27 16:07:42 lcuk: Nokia has exactly three kinds of devices Jan 27 16:07:47 not always :) Jan 27 16:07:57 Ok, there are also dumb phones and even dumber winmobile navigator Jan 27 16:08:25 Well, work-in-progress: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer Jan 27 16:08:49 Since I can't change link colors, then I have to change background :( Jan 27 16:09:00 wazd: still very big contrast with white vs black :P Jan 27 16:09:09 as in, surrounding wiki Jan 27 16:09:29 less extreme that before wazd, looks cool, BUT, for the website boundary Jan 27 16:09:42 wazd: Why not drop wiki? Jan 27 16:09:52 i like the deep water effect - the brilliant white of the old deskttop background was distracting Jan 27 16:09:53 This does not seem to require wiki Jan 27 16:09:54 RST38h: I don't know :D Jan 27 16:10:16 wazd: [and can we please have the tentacles reaching from the bottom? ;)] Jan 27 16:10:53 RST38h: sure, right after managing proper background for blocks :) Jan 27 16:11:21 RST38h: because the Mer homepage is on wiki.maemo.org for now, with no good reason to change it? Jan 27 16:12:15 Right now it looks like something really extraordinary, not "yet-another-wiki-page" :) Jan 27 16:12:30 Contrast plays on our side this time Jan 27 16:12:31 wazd: how difficult it it to make the layout crash totally? :P Jan 27 16:12:50 Stskeeps: this layout is pretty scalable) Jan 27 16:13:04 * Stskeeps likes it being on wiki as we can edit things easily and add things easily without going through a huge design process :P Jan 27 16:13:10 Stskeeps: you should view it thru some cheap phon I think :) Jan 27 16:14:22 Jaffa: Well, wiki's menus obviously get in the way, isn't it a good enough reason? Jan 27 16:14:23 and it's usable with every skin :) Jan 27 16:14:23 one thing i would like on front page is a link to current sprint, like, "What needs to be done for next release" or the likes, though Jan 27 16:14:40 as it's very hidden atm Jan 27 16:14:51 RST38h: but it means everyone can edit it, there's version control - and the wiki doesn't really get in the way. Jan 27 16:14:51 and a list of things which need to be done overall, so people can see what they want to tackle? Jan 27 16:15:04 how is it easier to port existing applications by hildonizing and adjusting them? Jan 27 16:15:07 lardman: i'm not even sure what the high level goals are :P Jan 27 16:15:34 lcuk: well. Jan 27 16:15:42 omfg Jan 27 16:16:00 omg rm_you, its you - did you fall into a wormhole or something Jan 27 16:16:03 haven't opened my IRC client in ... months Jan 27 16:16:06 lcuk: 1) you don't have to fight with old libraries. 2) you don't have to fight with having to build X library you have on desktop but not on maemo, 3) etc Jan 27 16:16:07 rm_us: ehlo Jan 27 16:16:09 :P Jan 27 16:16:12 lcuk: you could say that :P Jan 27 16:16:12 and you are meant to type your proper channel, not this one Jan 27 16:16:14 lcuk: you just concentrate on hildonizing Jan 27 16:16:39 lcuk: how go your projects of late? Jan 27 16:16:41 ahhh, so hildonizing by default and also having it available on desktop Jan 27 16:16:51 hey rm_you :) Jan 27 16:16:58 lcuk: well as in that you don't need all the other crap you need to do on maemo :P Jan 27 16:17:15 hey wazd / RST38h :) Jan 27 16:17:19 rm_you, very well actually :) i have lots of goodies built and things are coming together nice enough to let me see glimpses of the whole :) Jan 27 16:17:26 nice Jan 27 16:17:51 the best thing bout current layout - that you can easily make every Mer page look like index Jan 27 16:17:53 yes - my fingers are finally catching up with my mind Jan 27 16:17:59 hey rm_you :D Jan 27 16:17:59 got back into the tablet recently... this time because my GF likes to use it for knitting patterns :) Jan 27 16:18:04 johnx: sup :) Jan 27 16:18:36 rm_you: been tracking Mer development? :> Jan 27 16:18:49 Stskeeps: I wish... I lost track of like... everything Jan 27 16:18:51 rm_you: if not, definately go see http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 27 16:18:53 how has it been going? Jan 27 16:18:56 kk Jan 27 16:19:25 rm_you, don't lie, you havent got a girlfriend and you are just stuck at knitting Jan 27 16:19:36 lol Jan 27 16:19:50 * rm_you does like knitting now Jan 27 16:20:00 i used to sign ppl up to knitting websites who riled me Jan 27 16:20:07 heh Jan 27 16:20:20 ick, why do i still use IE6 Jan 27 16:20:41 lol cos its the most stable Jan 27 16:20:49 and all the worms have stopped targetting it now Jan 27 16:20:55 * lcuk titters Jan 27 16:21:01 the Mer page looks horrible in IE6 :P Jan 27 16:21:04 it fails at CSS Jan 27 16:21:21 anyone using maemo sdk+? i m trying to compile kernel using the source version, but i got /bin/sh: arm-linux-gcc: command not found Jan 27 16:21:36 rm_you, you're like 2 versions of IE behind. WTH do you expect? Jan 27 16:21:43 lol Jan 27 16:21:55 rm_you: this should be fine http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer Jan 27 16:21:57 johnx, hes waiting for you to come back and fix it for him Jan 27 16:22:04 like i said, dunno why i still use it, besides the enormous hatred i have for IE7 Jan 27 16:22:23 rm_you, you have pm :) Jan 27 16:22:35 oh Jan 27 16:22:35 lcuk, nah, rm_you was always the one good at fixing windows stuff :P Jan 27 16:22:41 lol thanks wazd. still some issues, but usable :P Jan 27 16:22:43 I was no good at windows so I had to give up :/ Jan 27 16:22:47 Nothing close to "fine" )) Jan 27 16:22:50 lol, rm_you, Myrtti will probably start shipping you free tablets if you code up a knitting program. :P Jan 27 16:22:58 lol Jan 27 16:23:04 GeneralAntilles: I was seriously considering it Jan 27 16:23:06 lolololol Jan 27 16:23:11 oooooooh Jan 27 16:23:15 lol Jan 27 16:23:16 Haa Jan 27 16:23:16 ahaha Jan 27 16:23:19 I'll knit you a pair of mittens Jan 27 16:23:20 sup Myrtti :P Jan 27 16:23:21 and a hat Jan 27 16:23:24 lol Jan 27 16:23:25 and a scarf Jan 27 16:23:33 what are you looking for in a knitting program? Jan 27 16:23:34 * Stskeeps wonders idly Jan 27 16:23:37 shawl for your mum? Jan 27 16:23:47 I did one just on Sunday... Jan 27 16:23:48 * rm_you is currently MAKING a shawl for my mum :P Jan 27 16:23:52 Tie One On, from Knitty Jan 27 16:23:53 wazd, that looks really slick. hadn't seen it yet Jan 27 16:24:08 Myrtti, are your knitting creations licensed correctly? Jan 27 16:24:14 can i have the source code to them Jan 27 16:24:33 rm_you: just a basic one that could do graphical patterns Jan 27 16:24:33 * wazd really hates IE optimisations but that's the job :( Jan 27 16:24:34 Advanced Knitting ;) Jan 27 16:24:47 anyway, was considering making a true knitting program for maemo, with my GF (who took a few programming classes last year) Jan 27 16:25:03 she's crazy good at knitting :P Jan 27 16:25:09 I'm still learning Jan 27 16:25:12 rm_you: http://jacquie.typepad.com/Charts/knitChart.htm something like this Jan 27 16:25:36 yeah, i was looking for one of these Jan 27 16:25:41 or if you've come across with FairIsle.jar Jan 27 16:25:42 I figured it must exist Jan 27 16:25:44 AMD has no replacement planned for the aging Geode low-power chip, creating uncertainty for its use in products like future XO laptops made by One Laptop Per Child. There won't be a Geode successor and the company has no core microarchitecture planned to replace the chip, AMD executives said. Jan 27 16:25:52 One Geode less =) Jan 27 16:25:52 I can reverse engineer this :P Jan 27 16:26:08 because really maemo touch screen really is the perfect platform for such an app Jan 27 16:26:18 Myrtti: would this knitchart be ok, if i just reverse engineered it and coded it up in maemo? Jan 27 16:26:38 cause I don't know everything i would need to know to code this otherwise Jan 27 16:26:45 unless my GF did all the specifications :P Jan 27 16:26:57 rm_you: that would be perfect for me :-) Jan 27 16:27:01 my cats once reverse engineered a knitted jumper. Jan 27 16:27:08 TTG home Jan 27 16:27:24 surprisingly ubuntu has no knitting-related things Jan 27 16:27:26 the only thing i can read is like, k5 k2tog p5 Jan 27 16:27:28 lcuk: Have you judged and executed them under the rules of DMCA? Jan 27 16:27:38 Stskeeps: hold on Jan 27 16:27:52 i dont understand most of these acronyms yet :P Jan 27 16:27:55 nahhh knitting apps exist Jan 27 16:28:04 Stskeeps: http://myrtti.fi/blog/2008/12/19/dear-santhhhhplanet-ubuntu/ Jan 27 16:28:08 RST38h, not at all, hacking is permitted in my household Jan 27 16:28:15 lcuk: pity =) Jan 27 16:28:15 Myrtti: I'll look into it though Jan 27 16:28:18 but that has idiotic 3D thing Jan 27 16:28:22 my maemo buildbox is still down Jan 27 16:28:25 but i has a new server Jan 27 16:28:29 so i can make it do the builds Jan 27 16:28:43 Stskeeps, do you have/plan to have cups in mer? Jan 27 16:28:43 rm_you: you can always grab a Mer VMDK/VDI and code for hildon+mer gtk there ;) Jan 27 16:28:49 slonopotamus: er. apt-get install cups. Jan 27 16:28:49 :P Jan 27 16:29:14 will i be able to print web pages then? Jan 27 16:29:26 :P Jan 27 16:29:27 slonopotamus, cups is easy, but it's up to programmers to decide whether they want to depend on it Jan 27 16:29:28 slonopotamus: no clue, maybe Jan 27 16:29:44 Myrtti: well, i'll look into it Jan 27 16:29:45 wazd: using images for the headings is pretty nasty... Jan 27 16:29:49 Myrtti: are you on Ravelry? Jan 27 16:29:51 * Stskeeps boots up virtualbox Jan 27 16:30:01 johnx, hmm. you ship browser preinstalled Jan 27 16:30:08 nop, we don't Jan 27 16:30:09 (atm) Jan 27 16:30:10 slonopotamus, not yet Jan 27 16:30:17 anyway, new server, woo: Jan 27 16:30:18 Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on Jan 27 16:30:18 /dev/md/0 4.0T 1.3T 2.7T 32% /media/md0 Jan 27 16:30:29 jeez Jan 27 16:30:42 ^_^ Jan 27 16:30:49 rm_you, can I get a shell account? :> Jan 27 16:30:52 lol Jan 27 16:30:54 if you want :P Jan 27 16:31:02 hmm. then i misunderstood recent mer video Jan 27 16:31:12 k, set up :P Jan 27 16:31:25 slonopotamus, the midori browser is easily downloaded Jan 27 16:32:00 Jaffa: well, there is still alt-text if you have images turned off Jan 27 16:32:31 * GeneralAntilles wonders what the mailing list spam is about. Jan 27 16:33:23 brb shower Jan 27 16:34:40 Myrtti: ok, requires GL, not that easy :P Jan 27 16:38:07 maybe mesa or whatever would do the trick, but don't have it setup atm Jan 27 16:39:12 other than that it would probably build fine and work. Jan 27 16:44:48 qwerty12: i'll generate new jffs2 over night and test the mtdblock thing works Jan 27 16:45:04 Nice. *fingers crossed* Jan 27 16:45:45 hi qwerty12 Jan 27 16:45:54 hi radic_ Jan 27 16:49:28 Urg, Jussi's making the maemo.nokia.com thing more confusing. <_< Jan 27 16:49:40 nice :) Jan 27 16:49:42 Indeed. Jan 27 16:50:00 I'm not sure how Talk wormed its way in there, either. Jan 27 16:50:23 lol Jan 27 16:50:51 We need at least one head involved who understands all aspects of the relationship between maemo.nokia.com, Maemo@Forum Nokia and maemo.org and I don't think we have that. >_> Jan 27 16:51:19 What ships an i.MX these days? Jan 27 16:51:31 They pop up a lot in Linux-on-ARM development stuff. Jan 27 16:51:45 freescale? Jan 27 16:51:49 Yeah Jan 27 16:51:56 Freescale's OMAP equivalent Jan 27 16:51:59 i think it's the upcoming "arm netbook" stuff Jan 27 16:52:25 Well, they have OMAP1 and OMAP2 equivalent stuff, too. Jan 27 16:52:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.MX Jan 27 16:52:36 * GeneralAntilles considers updating the page. Jan 27 16:53:21 Anybody else catch the new OMAP36x chips on TI's site? Jan 27 16:57:19 * Stskeeps ponders idly if the nokia kernel things for powervr included mbx stuff too, like, basic support Jan 27 16:57:31 i know it needs libraries, but still Jan 27 16:58:31 hi Jan 27 16:58:33 hehe Jan 27 16:58:45 i have xclock working :) Jan 27 16:59:02 qwerty12, I added that thing you showed me on Personal Launcher along with a couple of other things I found to wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/Personal_Menu_tips_and_tricks Jan 27 16:59:13 Stskeeps, imho basic support is http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/946765.diff. Only powers the chip, nothing else... Jan 27 16:59:33 AndrewFBlack, wicked, the page is looking good. Jan 27 17:00:18 qwerty12, thanks Jan 27 17:02:20 can i ask something about repositories on a N800 or is this the wrong channel? Jan 27 17:02:31 Dado_, go for it :) Jan 27 17:02:39 why in gods name can i not copy n paste from a .doc to the wiki, i wanted to start to get some documentation for the liqbase library up but it keeps really seriously fscking with the layout in major ways that hurt my head :'( Jan 27 17:02:50 thx :-) Jan 27 17:02:59 #maemo: the first, last and only channel about the Nokia Internet Tablets Jan 27 17:03:14 #mer, #liqbase :) Jan 27 17:03:23 i'm new to n800 and have problem with repos... Jan 27 17:03:35 lcuk, ...except for those other ones Jan 27 17:03:49 i have the offical repo and the extra repo... Jan 27 17:04:02 in extra there are some libs that i want to install Jan 27 17:04:12 but i cant find it via programm manager Jan 27 17:04:20 repo is active Jan 27 17:04:33 any hint? Jan 27 17:04:58 Dado_, only packages with Section: user/* show up in application manager Jan 27 17:05:05 Dado_: The lib is probably not meant to be installed by users. Use apt-get to install it.. Jan 27 17:05:07 if you know the lib you want, use apt-get install libfoo Jan 27 17:05:48 hmm ok Jan 27 17:06:20 Myrtti: did you say if you were on Ravelry? Jan 27 17:06:27 i wanted to install libwww-ssl0 but there are deps with wwwssl (or something like that) Jan 27 17:06:33 Stskeeps, god, that red on the sprints page is killing me :P Jan 27 17:06:39 libssl i think Jan 27 17:06:45 qwerty12, workin' on that :P Jan 27 17:06:55 hehe, nice one johnx :D Jan 27 17:07:13 i need the lib to for streaming from "Mediaportal" Jan 27 17:07:23 qwerty12: sorry :P Jan 27 17:07:28 qwerty12: got a better but urgent colour? Jan 27 17:07:41 mauve Jan 27 17:07:48 Stskeeps: He propably wants pink ;) Jan 27 17:07:58 A nicer red :D. Jan 27 17:08:05 Stskeeps: 33FF00 :P Jan 27 17:08:12 naah, we just need to wrap the text in a Jan 27 17:08:30 and have some nice URGENT! messages at the top Jan 27 17:08:45 qwerty12: go ahead and edit :P Jan 27 17:09:03 Stskeeps, re a mce clone, I really don't like the idea of one in python... Jan 27 17:09:17 Stskeeps, hah, I'm terrible at wiki's :P Jan 27 17:09:20 qwerty12: well, any language will do. Jan 27 17:09:27 will apt-get solve depencies in any way? Jan 27 17:09:29 qwerty12: as long as it's more readable than powerlaunch Jan 27 17:09:44 and it not being C Jan 27 17:10:01 Dado_, it will attempt to solve any deps it can Jan 27 17:10:14 * qwerty12 would prefer one being C (despite hardly understanding it). Speed is nice for a system daemon. Jan 27 17:10:38 strange, libwww-ssl0 tells me that it needs libssl. And i thing this is in extra, too Jan 27 17:10:46 qwerty12: well, ok, i mean systemui being python or whatever Jan 27 17:10:50 mce is a facilitator Jan 27 17:11:03 but it doesn't get the libssl Jan 27 17:11:38 Dado_, it might need a certain version of libssl Jan 27 17:11:51 did anybody tried to install "mampt" on n800/810 Jan 27 17:12:11 yes, but i can only have one at the same time, or? Jan 27 17:12:34 just explaining...not providing a solution Jan 27 17:12:47 i know ;-) Jan 27 17:12:56 where is mampt from? Jan 27 17:13:41 mampt: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=618 Jan 27 17:14:06 lardman, what DSP is on OMAP2? Jan 27 17:14:44 there are some dependencies for mampt, so i thought to install them before... Jan 27 17:14:48 Dado_, did you try that 'click to install' link? Jan 27 17:15:35 GeneralAntilles: TMS320C55xx Jan 27 17:15:51 Same as the OMAP1? Jan 27 17:15:59 yes, iirc Jan 27 17:16:12 220MHz, right? Jan 27 17:16:46 yep Jan 27 17:16:53 johnx, im blind i do not find such a link... Jan 27 17:17:02 GeneralAntilles: why's that? Jan 27 17:17:13 lardman, I'm fixing the OMAP wiki page. Jan 27 17:17:20 Dado_, http://mompt.garage.maemo.org/mampt.htm Jan 27 17:17:21 .. or do you mean clicking to install through programmanager? Jan 27 17:18:06 i didn't tried it because of "Before installing the MaMPt application its necessary to install its requirements" Jan 27 17:18:21 Would it be appropriate to describe the PowerVR as a "GPU"? Jan 27 17:18:25 so i tried this first .... and failed :-( Jan 27 17:18:44 johnx: what approach are we taking for Mer, use the DSP for audio out or move to ARM-side control via kernel + portaudio? Jan 27 17:18:52 GeneralAntilles: yeah Jan 27 17:19:02 "2D/3D Graphics Accelerator" is a little awkward. ;) Jan 27 17:19:07 :) Jan 27 17:19:12 lardman, anything that works. I think the the arm side would be prefered in that it's less finicky Jan 27 17:19:28 that's also what will be used in Fremantle Jan 27 17:19:45 and also what can be redistributed freely Jan 27 17:19:51 and can be compatible with more ubuntu apps Jan 27 17:19:52 yep Jan 27 17:19:54 etc, etc, :) Jan 27 17:20:06 will probably mean flashing a new kernel though... Jan 27 17:20:34 lardman, some people are poking at kexec...solca and fanoush I believe Jan 27 17:20:34 that's fine Jan 27 17:21:16 ok Jan 27 17:21:41 bbl Jan 27 17:22:30 anyone got the diablo kernel source handy? Jan 27 17:22:43 /sound/soc/omap/n810.c Jan 27 17:22:44 Dado_, could you do: apt-cache show libwww-ssl0 and see exactly what version of libssl it wants? Jan 27 17:23:22 just a second ... Jan 27 17:23:49 lardman, sure it's diablo kernel source you want? There's no file called n810.c here. Jan 27 17:24:15 In 2.6.21 anyway. Jan 27 17:24:25 qwerty12: yeah, wanted to see if a kernel recompile was actually necessary Jan 27 17:24:52 http://ftp.gnu.org/tmp/linux-libre-fsf2_2.6.28/linux-2.6.28/sound/soc/omap/n810.c Jan 27 17:24:59 has anyone even managed to ouput sound from the arm side successfully? Jan 27 17:25:02 it's in 2.6.27 onwards I think Jan 27 17:25:13 the Android[people? Jan 27 17:25:22 s/{/ / Jan 27 17:25:30 * lardman can't type Jan 27 17:25:33 I didn't realize they had... Jan 27 17:25:39 btw it seems like the nokia kernel might have ALSA driver for some of the SoC drivers Jan 27 17:25:44 not sure if n800 is in there Jan 27 17:25:47 as in, the new one Jan 27 17:26:41 N800 users are getting fucked over from what I can remember. Dunno if anyone has made a n800 driver yet Jan 27 17:26:49 johnx: libwww-ssl0 wants libssl0.9.7 Jan 27 17:27:59 iiinteresting Jan 27 17:28:07 looks like I have both installed without conflicting Jan 27 17:28:13 0.9.7 and 0.9.8 Jan 27 17:28:15 If somebody wants to eyeball this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP Jan 27 17:28:21 Hey if I make a new icon I want to use with Personal Launcher where do I put it on tablet? Jan 27 17:28:53 AndrewFBlack, /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ is a good bet Jan 27 17:28:54 GeneralAntilles: so needs a NIT reference.. i mean, pandora is there and beagleboard.. Jan 27 17:29:12 do you know how to install 0.9.7 parallel to 0.9.8? Jan 27 17:29:19 AndrewFBlack, that folder wants 64x64 icons Jan 27 17:29:36 i even did not find the package name :-( Jan 27 17:29:40 Dado_, just install it? Jan 27 17:29:42 ok thanks I made it as far as finding /usr/share/icons/hicolor/ just wasn't sure after that lol Jan 27 17:30:16 Dado_, one sec Jan 27 17:30:30 Stskeeps, done. Jan 27 17:31:00 drivers/spi/tsc2301-mixer.c for the n800, is that there? Jan 27 17:31:14 sound/soc/codecs/tsc2301_mixer.c Jan 27 17:31:21 Stskeeps: HAM's not working in snapshots? On device? What's the problem - I might recognise it, but I haven't got time to test it :( Jan 27 17:32:06 Jaffa: it works but it doesn't seem to show any repositories or lists, or allow installation Jan 27 17:32:27 qwerty12, do I need to do anything after putting file there? Jan 27 17:32:43 Stskeeps: Right, then that's the lack of a network connection. Jan 27 17:32:46 Dado_, open up application manager and look see if you have the 'tableteer' repo enabled Jan 27 17:32:51 AndrewFBlack, run "gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor" as root Jan 27 17:32:53 Jaffa: ah. Jan 27 17:32:55 Stskeeps: See the 'assume-connection' bit of the chroot install instructions. Jan 27 17:33:02 no i havent Jan 27 17:33:05 Stskeeps: libconic is reporting "DISCONNECTED", so it doesn't do anything. Jan 27 17:33:09 i would know ;-) Jan 27 17:33:23 Jaffa: nice job telling me to rtfm, was well deserved :> Jan 27 17:33:29 i try to add this Jan 27 17:33:39 Stskeeps: Well, I wasn't sure if it was just going to be a chroot issue ;-) Jan 27 17:34:04 Stskeeps: What's the plan with icd/libconic/nm? Jan 27 17:34:17 Is it possible to remove borders from here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer/Community Jan 27 17:34:30 johnx do you mean: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/ Jan 27 17:34:36 ? Jan 27 17:34:38 yup Jan 27 17:34:40 k Jan 27 17:34:54 wazd: yes, border="0" on the table. Jan 27 17:35:23 wazd: I think the heading's a bit big to use on the subpages, isn't it? And having to create an image for *every* page subtitle is going to be a pain for anyone but you Jan 27 17:35:33 need to reboot, bbiam Jan 27 17:36:03 Jaffa: short-term, someone should write a dbus server that is a wrapper over NM dbus messages.. Jan 27 17:36:38 qwerty12, thanks that worked Jan 27 17:36:57 Jaffa: since libconic is "just" a dbus wrapper Jan 27 17:37:37 Jaffa: I've tried various things with "border" tag but nothing helps Jan 27 17:37:38 ok Jan 27 17:37:45 got it Jan 27 17:38:00 wazd: hmm Jan 27 17:39:28 Jaffa: is there a standard setting where you can enable assume connection, or does that require red pill? Jan 27 17:40:07 like, if a user was to do it Jan 27 17:40:13 Stskeeps: you have to put a line in ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager AFAICT Jan 27 17:40:21 k Jan 27 17:40:21 There's no red-pill UI for it, I don't think Jan 27 17:40:48 a job for start-hildon? Jan 27 17:41:17 (yes, ugly, I know :) ) Jan 27 17:41:19 Maybe in the postinst of HAM (along with the migrate settings) Jan 27 17:41:36 Actually, that wouldn't work Jan 27 17:41:38 Jaffa: well, at imaging time user doesn't exist, so :P Jan 27 17:41:39 eep. I really don't like postinst touching things in$HOME Jan 27 17:41:55 johnx: it already does in HAM - but that's upstream for you :-/ Jan 27 17:42:28 Stskeeps: indeed. Options are: 1) DBUS wrapper around nm; 2) Fake libconic which may or may not talk to nm; 3) fudge it in start-hildon Jan 27 17:42:55 Some sh-fu required to not blat any other Red Pill settings, and ensure it doesn't add too many: Jan 27 17:43:28 grep 'assume-connection 1' ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager || echo 'assume-connection 1' >>~/.osso/hildon-application-manager Jan 27 17:43:32 johnx: i have included the repo, what now? Jan 27 17:43:49 johnx/Stskeeps: that line in start-hildon should do it Jan 27 17:44:05 Dado_, that repo should have libssl0.9.7. apt-get install libssl0.9.7 Jan 27 17:44:52 Jaffa, will add now :) Jan 27 17:46:21 * lardman wishes he had enabled hash on shi sftp transfer Jan 27 17:46:30 johnx: first-boot-wizard with 'users' compiled on armel yet? Jan 27 17:46:39 Stskeeps, not yet Jan 27 17:46:46 alright Jan 27 17:46:51 do you want it now? Jan 27 17:46:59 can wait till its done :P Jan 27 17:47:12 it *should* be ok Jan 27 17:47:57 am I only person who wishes Personal Launcher icons could be just a little bigger lol Jan 27 17:48:26 Stskeeps, going through the red-list. where should that incompatible bootmenu check be? early init.d or linuxrv? Jan 27 17:48:34 *linuxrc Jan 27 17:49:27 johnx: bootbasics, linuxrc doesnt get run if its not the right bootmenu :) Jan 27 17:49:42 johnx: wazd was doing artwork, so we can just use the same thing splash uses Jan 27 17:50:09 great. I'll put something in and we can change the art later Jan 27 17:50:38 it is the number one cause of most bugs we see so :P Jan 27 17:51:03 Jaffa: works with assume-connection Jan 27 17:51:20 Stskeeps: cool; sorry I didn't document it as a limitation more clearly Jan 27 17:51:26 Jaffa: hehe Jan 27 17:51:32 Stskeeps: on the plus pont, the line from the chroot install instructions can come out now :) Jan 27 17:51:34 * Stskeeps looks at his apartment Jan 27 17:51:44 * Stskeeps needs to clean it. Jan 27 17:52:33 i find it kinda scary this mer thing is starting to feel like an actual usable OS :P Jan 27 17:52:36 grrr...I think lshal calls touchscreens 'touchpad' Jan 27 17:52:46 does it call touchpads (on laptops) the same thing? Jan 27 17:52:47 johnx: wonder why synaptics likes it.. Jan 27 17:53:11 yeah, author of the driver probably never had something with a touchscreen Jan 27 17:53:17 be nice to not make the same mistake :) Jan 27 17:53:43 *sigh...* Jan 27 17:54:05 Stskeeps, Is there an easy way to install it yet I hate lol been to scared to install it so far Jan 27 17:54:07 lshal | grep -i touchscreen will work on n800 and zaurus because the 'product name' is right Jan 27 17:54:34 AndrewFBlack: wait for sunday and then it is :P Jan 27 17:54:49 awsome been waiting Jan 27 17:54:55 both zaurus and n800 call their touchscreens, touchpads >_< Jan 27 17:55:08 if this is a HAL limitation I'll smack someone with a trout Jan 27 17:55:32 thoughts? opinions? anyone? Jan 27 17:55:38 sec Jan 27 17:55:42 sure Jan 27 17:57:23 joystick detection maybe Jan 27 17:57:24 :P Jan 27 17:57:40 huh? Jan 27 17:57:54 just noticed a thing about touchpad/joystick/mouse detection Jan 27 17:58:00 Are there any photos of it running on a zaurus? Is the performance acceptable? Is it viable? Jan 27 17:58:28 Jaffa, screenshots only. for some things, not browser, yes, I intend to give it a darn good try. Jan 27 17:58:40 * Jaffa wonders about an old Psion netBook port... a 200MHz StrongARM may be pushing it. But then, it's 770-quality hardware. RAM might be a limitation, can't remember how much it's got. Jan 27 17:58:53 Jaffa: well, has to be armv5t at this point :P Jan 27 17:58:55 64MB of RAM is painful Jan 27 18:00:42 Stskeeps: good, would hate to think it's something I might try ;-) Jan 27 18:00:43 a strongarm is armv4 so it can't run Debian or Ubuntu EABI binaries. also the 2.6 kernel port for strongarm is kind of shaky so you'd either half to clean up some drivers or run with 2.4 and an older distro Jan 27 18:00:56 Best forgotten. Jan 27 18:01:06 'fraid so *sighs* Jan 27 18:01:18 Roll on a light weight modern ARM netbook (*cough* Foleo *cough*) Jan 27 18:01:55 (re: zaurus collie, psion netbook) it would be neat, but the man hours to put into it are better spent at a minimum wage job earning money to pickup a used n800 Jan 27 18:02:33 netbook's a nicer format for doing "real" work on than an N8x0, though (having just got mine out to be a monitoring serial console for my media PC when X/kernel [not sure] crashes) Jan 27 18:02:35 * Jaffa homes Jan 27 18:03:24 the clamshell zaurus is a very nice platform for working on the train or at a coffee shop. Jan 27 18:04:37 ok, I'm going to do $(lshal | grep -i touchscreen) for now unless someone hates it or has a better idea Jan 27 18:05:48 fair enough Jan 27 18:06:10 I'll put a big FIXME above it Jan 27 18:08:04 johnx: i got the libs intalled. thx for help. But now i have another question: Jan 27 18:08:14 sure :) Jan 27 18:08:49 i now want to install mampt via "click to install" but the browser opens only a noew window with the content, no progmanager Jan 27 18:09:00 what to do? Jan 27 18:09:22 download the armel deb from the downloads page on that site Jan 27 18:09:50 ok and the install via apt-get? or click on it via filemanager? Jan 27 18:10:06 just click in file manager (or use dpkg -i if you want to) Jan 27 18:11:00 the whole point of .install 'click to install' files is to avoid all this :/ most of the time it's actually simple... Jan 27 18:14:25 ahh ok Jan 27 18:14:46 ok i have still problems with the req libmompt Jan 27 18:14:58 missing? won't install? Jan 27 18:15:17 i installed 0.3 but installing of mampt says it it missed Jan 27 18:15:25 strange Jan 27 18:19:23 what version of libmompt does mampt want? Jan 27 18:21:24 Hrm, I think I missed my deadline for the community highlights. . . . Jan 27 18:21:33 i dont find it, but i now have to go. Can i ask you another time? Jan 27 18:21:53 Dado_, sure. I'm always here :D Jan 27 18:22:02 Oh! ;-) Jan 27 18:22:25 now cinema with girlfriend has priority! ;-) Jan 27 18:22:37 bye till next time and thx again Jan 27 18:22:41 heh...fair enough. My wife's already asleep Jan 27 18:22:44 'later Jan 27 18:24:06 hmm, maemo-launcher is taking ~50% cpu, Xomap ~20% and tar&gzip about 15% Jan 27 18:24:23 while untarring the snapshot archive for Mer Jan 27 18:24:35 I wonder why the usage by Xomap and maemo-launcher? Jan 27 18:24:39 is something updating on the screen? Jan 27 18:24:58 yeah, terminal is showing the progress Jan 27 18:25:03 it's the installation tool Jan 27 18:25:09 :) Jan 27 18:25:12 there's your answer Jan 27 18:25:40 still interesting it takes so much Jan 27 18:25:45 and what about maemo-launcher? Jan 27 18:26:12 a lot of things run inside maemo-launcher Jan 27 18:26:43 yeah, but must be something specific to the installation I guess Jan 27 18:28:43 You know its the simple applications that makes me wish I had an iphone sometimes. Like a Movie Show Times Application. Most movie sites run like crap on my n810 really need a barbone script or a native app Jan 27 18:28:55 when you shut down, and you get the Nokia logo, is the bg not quite the same colour as the bg around the logo, or is that just me? Jan 27 18:29:10 AndrewFBlack, :) i love simple applications Jan 27 18:29:13 It's set by the current theme Jan 27 18:29:17 AndrewFBlack: you could write your own, it looked pretty simple Jan 27 18:29:23 qwerty12: ah, ok Jan 27 18:29:41 AndrewFBlack, try google or a google widget Jan 27 18:30:25 jeez. there's movies out I haven't even heard of O_o Jan 27 18:30:27 hmm, am getting "Please check username" dialog repeatedly Jan 27 18:30:40 lardman, what are you putting in for it? Jan 27 18:30:43 lardman, wish I knew how to program and I would Jan 27 18:30:43 the name I have in there is "simon" Jan 27 18:31:02 AndrewFBlack: I think there was a thread on itt, or was that you? Jan 27 18:31:16 I think I had one a while ago Jan 27 18:31:36 lardman, try something else see if it works Jan 27 18:31:45 Just tried "si" same problem Jan 27 18:31:58 bbiam Jan 27 18:33:26 lardman, when you get back, did you include any punctuation in your full name (not username) Jan 27 18:34:00 hehe Jan 27 18:47:47 * lcuk feels a bit better starting to document and clarify the library bounds Jan 27 18:48:01 i should be able to actually start moving my apps into it v soon :) Jan 27 18:48:46 johnx: no punctuation other than 2 capital letters and a space between first and surname Jan 27 18:48:57 really, really odd Jan 27 18:49:27 I need to go buy a book and learn python I guess Jan 27 18:49:30 lardman, is this a fresh 0.6 or a later snapshot? Jan 27 18:49:38 hmm, just pressed cancel, not much happening now Jan 27 18:49:45 johnx: fresh snapshot Jan 27 18:49:51 ah Jan 27 18:50:04 ok...that makes things a bit different Jan 27 18:50:06 hmm Jan 27 18:50:36 lardman, would you be willing to pop the battery, reboot into maemo and chroot into mer and install a new first-boot-wizard once I cook it? Jan 27 18:50:42 should be about 10 minutes Jan 27 18:50:48 sure Jan 27 18:51:36 popped and rebooting Jan 27 18:58:08 johnx: just going to eat some supper, will be back in a bit Jan 27 18:59:21 lo daperl Jan 27 19:00:00 yo Jan 27 19:01:23 sup? Jan 27 19:02:28 well, is dsme considered a secondary watchdog? if so, it's dead before i kexec -e Jan 27 19:02:51 yes, it does watchdog stuff Jan 27 19:03:14 as in, it kicks the omap watchdog Jan 27 19:03:44 what is it to "kick a watchdog?" Jan 27 19:03:58 basically the watchdog counts down Jan 27 19:04:06 if it doesn't get reset, the device is rebooted Jan 27 19:04:28 so dsme resets ("kicks") it every several seconds Jan 27 19:05:03 more "dead man's switch" than "watchdog" IMNSHO Jan 27 19:05:14 so i shouldn't kill dsme before i kexec -e? Jan 27 19:05:25 that would certainly help Jan 27 19:05:33 did you enable no-lifeguard-reset? Jan 27 19:06:18 daperl: my hint was regarding simply resetting it manually just before kexec Jan 27 19:06:20 so it has 60 seconds to boot up Jan 27 19:07:56 yeah, i don't know the abc's of this stuff, but let me see if i understood your last statement Jan 27 19:09:59 http://www.csync.org/maemo/ ;) Jan 27 19:12:30 daperl: basically echo 60 > /sys/devices/platform/retu-watchdog/period Jan 27 19:12:36 well, i actually don't understand. but i think i could. feel free to just talk kernel-boot at me Jan 27 19:12:55 hm Jan 27 19:13:30 it will reset the watchdog just enough time as to allow a bootup :P Jan 27 19:13:38 hm... this sucks Jan 27 19:13:55 MaceN800: mm? Jan 27 19:14:00 boston legal got cancelled? Jan 27 19:14:05 yeah Jan 27 19:14:19 it started to suck by the 4th season anyways Jan 27 19:15:42 so, even though kexec -e is starting a new kernel, i want to make sure that the hardware doesn't reset while i'm trying to do this? Jan 27 19:15:52 exactly Jan 27 19:16:10 the watchdog is a physical chip Jan 27 19:16:28 hi, can someone explain, how do i make a boot item for bootmenu, so i can install mer on my sd card? Jan 27 19:17:03 there are a ton of sites that will explain it Jan 27 19:17:11 grey's anatomy is getting rather out there Jan 27 19:17:11 yeah, where Jan 27 19:17:23 ah, i thought it was just software with interrupts Jan 27 19:17:35 Alendit_: ok, did you install mer through the installer? Jan 27 19:17:53 no, in wiki is said it doesn't play well with a sd card Jan 27 19:17:59 no, that's not what it says Jan 27 19:18:14 it says, don't play nice with clone-to-SD, which is when you copy your maemo to a SD card :P Jan 27 19:18:25 johnx: afaik watchdog is a circuit inside OMAP2 Jan 27 19:18:42 johnx: basically a countdown timer plugged into the reset line Jan 27 19:18:48 RST38h, going for concept not specifics :P Jan 27 19:18:59 heh Jan 27 19:19:02 so, i keep dsme alive and have it send the watchdog a "stay alive for 60 seconds message"? Jan 27 19:19:02 and this is what i mend Jan 27 19:19:05 lardman, I think I have a first-boot-wizard that works Jan 27 19:19:44 dpkg want's root privilegs in the scratchbox Jan 27 19:19:46 Alendit_: alright. - and you have that? Jan 27 19:20:01 Stskeeps, yes, i cloned my os to sd Jan 27 19:20:06 Stskeeps: can you help me? Jan 27 19:20:16 radic, fakeroot dpkg Jan 27 19:20:26 radic: if you do my linear algebra homework Jan 27 19:20:32 now i want to do the same with mer Jan 27 19:20:39 daperl, kill dsme last and also use that 'echo ...' line Stskeeps gave you Jan 27 19:20:56 Alendit_, let me paste up my mer.item. one moment Jan 27 19:20:56 Stskeeps: I can try it Jan 27 19:21:13 kk Jan 27 19:21:15 i'll give it a try Jan 27 19:21:31 Alendit_: you'll also a .item for your cloned to SD maemo Jan 27 19:21:34 +need Jan 27 19:21:53 i didn't user this bootloader Jan 27 19:21:58 *use Jan 27 19:22:03 thx johnx Jan 27 19:22:11 at least the n800 Jan 27 19:22:12 it was an older version, there was no /etc/bootloader.d Jan 27 19:22:36 Alendit_, do you have a /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.sh ? Jan 27 19:22:40 can use my g1 Jan 27 19:22:41 Alendit_: yes, i know, and you need to use the deb bootmenu we point to, to run mer, else it will self-destruct :P Jan 27 19:22:55 my mnt ist empty Jan 27 19:23:06 actually, I'll be putting in that self destruct presently... Jan 27 19:23:07 i know Jan 27 19:23:13 thats why i installed this new loader Jan 27 19:23:21 ok, so you have - good Jan 27 19:23:21 sec Jan 27 19:23:23 and now i need an .item file Jan 27 19:23:26 just as a piece of packaging news for people - http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/01/27/build-maemo-apps-with-opensuse-buildservice-it-works/ Jan 27 19:23:59 FunkyPenguin: does it build for Mer yet? ;) Jan 27 19:24:33 FunkyPenguin, so you feed it debian source packages or something else? Jan 27 19:24:52 Stskeeps: if the mer sdk repo is available then yes it will Jan 27 19:25:13 Alendit_: http://rafb.net/p/k0E93s77.html is an example .item for maemo SD Jan 27 19:25:19 thx Jan 27 19:25:33 why this isn't in wiki, actually? Jan 27 19:25:40 feel free to document it .. Jan 27 19:25:45 kk Jan 27 19:26:25 Alendit_: are you intending to use a full SD for Mer? Jan 27 19:26:25 Alendit_, and here's one for booting mer: http://rafb.net/p/S6l8ib53.html Jan 27 19:26:42 johnx: im not the one who did it just passing the news on so i cant tell exactly Jan 27 19:26:42 Stskeeps, yes, why? Jan 27 19:26:53 wow... only in hollywood could you replace every single internal organ Jan 27 19:27:00 and have no problems Jan 27 19:27:00 Alendit_: good, then use installer and select "simple" and it'll make your item for you Jan 27 19:27:05 i mean seriously everything Jan 27 19:27:11 Anybody have any clues about OMAP36x? Jan 27 19:27:11 liver.. lungs.. heart Jan 27 19:27:29 would it also format my sd? i quite fucked up my system so i need a reinstall Jan 27 19:27:32 johnx: if you would like more info pop into #opensuse-buildservice or i'll ask someone to do a more detailed post Jan 27 19:27:38 Alendit_: yeah, the SD you select to Jan 27 19:27:56 FunkyPenguin, it's probably up there...I was just curious if someone knew the answer right off Jan 27 19:27:59 Stskeeps, ok, thx Jan 27 19:28:10 FunkyPenguin, I'll read all about it later. thanks for sharing :) Jan 27 19:28:17 np Jan 27 19:28:39 is there any way to get debug info from kexec -e? Jan 27 19:29:03 Alendit_: and then when it dies after asking for root pasword, run 'refresh_bootmenu.d' from a root shell Jan 27 19:30:00 hm Jan 27 19:31:45 wow! if this opensuse cross-build thing actually works it's pretty interesting Jan 27 19:31:57 it works Jan 27 19:32:00 ;) Jan 27 19:32:05 back Jan 27 19:32:17 opensuse on NIT? why? Jan 27 19:32:26 RST38h, you missed it. hit your scrollback Jan 27 19:33:01 I mainly wonder if it can actually build any debian source package that will build natively Jan 27 19:33:16 usually cross builders have a habit of being close-but-not-quite Jan 27 19:33:39 johnx: as soon as it hits something needing emulation.. Jan 27 19:33:57 it does - its using qemu in a similar way than scratchbox Jan 27 19:34:07 Stskeeps, it uses qemu. they show it chrooting into a debian arm install from x86 Jan 27 19:34:15 k Jan 27 19:35:03 Stskeeps: btw. thanks for helping with the dsc yesterday ;) Jan 27 19:35:15 i helped with a dsc yesterday? Jan 27 19:36:43 or sisto ? Jan 27 19:36:46 haha Jan 27 19:37:06 whats the best way of writing wiki pages? why cant i just make something simle and wysiwyg in word and copy n paste Jan 27 19:37:08 only in a tv show can you relace like 4 internal organs and survive Jan 27 19:37:09 hahaha Jan 27 19:37:47 lcuk, because the world is a horrible place Jan 27 19:37:50 mace, doctors in america removed 8 organs from a woman this morning! Jan 27 19:38:01 seriously? Jan 27 19:38:11 johnx, i had the liqbase_library_overview sorted in word Jan 27 19:38:15 yeah mace Jan 27 19:38:20 if you want some more info about the maemo/opensuse build service thing, then you can visit us @ opensuse-arm Jan 27 19:38:43 dl9pf, I should do some more reading first :) Jan 27 19:38:48 MaceN800, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4362780/American-woman-gives-birth-to-live-octuplets.html Jan 27 19:38:54 hmm...maybe I'll lurk though Jan 27 19:39:47 copy n paste from word should try to retain formatting - maybe i should make something Jan 27 19:40:09 lcuk, the problem is wiki formatting isn't wysiwyg Jan 27 19:40:09 i said organs Jan 27 19:40:16 not organisms Jan 27 19:40:27 johnx, could be wordpad, i only do simple editing and a bit of indenting Jan 27 19:40:34 but its so difficult Jan 27 19:40:57 MaceN800, the organs were transplanted into viable donors :) Jan 27 19:41:00 wordpad is wysiwyg too! :P this is just some simple markup Jan 27 19:41:02 lcuk, wikifail. Jan 27 19:41:08 yes GeneralAntilles Jan 27 19:41:12 its not logical Jan 27 19:41:18 No Jan 27 19:41:21 lcuk fails at wiki. Jan 27 19:41:27 GeneralAntilles, gotta say, editing tables on wikis is quite annoying Jan 27 19:41:34 ill write my own fudging wiki then :) Jan 27 19:41:38 johnx, then use HTML Jan 27 19:42:22 octuplets arent organs Jan 27 19:42:27 GeneralAntilles, ok, that's not the right answer either :P Jan 27 19:42:32 people should not have to learn a new language just to edit a simple document Jan 27 19:42:33 that's why there's still red on mer's sprint page even though I did half those tasks :P Jan 27 19:42:51 johnx, it's not hard to substitute color codes. Jan 27 19:42:56 lcuk, for markup it's not that bad...but when you start editing tables it becomes a PITA Jan 27 19:43:02 lcuk, there's no "language" involved. Jan 27 19:43:19 GeneralAntilles, it's the formatting, not color codes. I think in hex color codes already :P Jan 27 19:43:20 lcuk, the problem is, WYSIWYG usually just plain sucks. Jan 27 19:43:41 it has a grammar, a user edits the source code which gets marked up into a final binary document Jan 27 19:43:49 johnx, um, marking a task done should be setting a color code and setting the completion percentage. Jan 27 19:43:49 I ported cfdisk but it dosn't work Jan 27 19:43:55 Both values can simply be replaced. . . . Jan 27 19:44:15 oooh so if you do things quickly you can set the color to something cool Jan 27 19:44:22 radic, define 'doesn't work'. also, it's already available... Jan 27 19:44:28 lcuk, you have to balance functionality and simplicity Jan 27 19:44:30 omg that task has gone to maroon, call the cops Jan 27 19:44:38 WYSIWYG sacrifices functionality for simplicity. Jan 27 19:44:52 lcuk, just take 20 minutes to review http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet Jan 27 19:45:13 yeah GeneralAntilles understood totally, thats why you allow the user and document to specify style (none/wiki/wysiwygish) Jan 27 19:45:33 lcuk, then somebody editing WYSIWYG breaks the document. Jan 27 19:45:43 johnx: FATAL ERROR: Bad primary partition 0: Partition endsin the final partial cylinder Jan 27 19:45:46 GeneralAntilles, i argue for simplicity because thats what a lot of real users demand Jan 27 19:45:57 lcuk, most real users don't write documentation. Jan 27 19:46:00 radic, that's a problem with your partition, not cfdisk Jan 27 19:46:03 johnx: that I get if I start it withe "cfdisk /dev/sda" Jan 27 19:46:07 a wiki is for more than documentation Jan 27 19:46:07 lcuk, it's lie uploading to Extras. Jan 27 19:46:24 You have to balance simplicity and ease-of-use with maintaining a good quality. Jan 27 19:46:32 lcuk, everything on the wiki is documentation. Jan 27 19:47:06 She is planning to breast-feed all eight infants, said Mandhir Gupta, head of neonatology at the centre. "She's a very strong woman. She should be able to take care of all eight of them." Jan 27 19:47:14 that's rough Jan 27 19:47:16 apart from the fact clicking help has nothing (as i discovered earlier) Jan 27 19:47:27 Stskeeps, are you planning on having sprint reviews? Jan 27 19:47:29 hmm Jan 27 19:47:45 MaceN800: you're red, that's confusing me... Jan 27 19:48:17 dont people in poor countries breast feed their kids until theyre teens? Jan 27 19:48:18 GeneralAntilles, at the footer of the page in edit mode is a link that says "editing help" which leads here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Editing Jan 27 19:48:20 its empty Jan 27 19:48:36 clicking help on the right brings you to an empty page: here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Contents Jan 27 19:48:38 it was empty Jan 27 19:48:39 lcuk, there's no help for you :> Jan 27 19:48:42 (click that one, its fun) Jan 27 19:49:00 lcuk, https://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Editing Jan 27 19:49:19 lcuk, you should always feel free to help out and improve the wiki. :) Jan 27 19:49:32 cur) (last) 19:48, 27 January 2009 generalantilles Jan 27 19:49:38 :D you just added it Jan 27 19:49:42 Yes, lcuk, I just added it. Jan 27 19:49:48 lcuk, that's the beauty of a wiki Jan 27 19:49:49 i thought i was going daft for a moment then Jan 27 19:50:14 * johnx thinks he'll just use ascii art tables instead of mucking about with wiki tables Jan 27 19:50:19 yeah i know i edited it earlier when i found no help :$ my rant now is to help with that Jan 27 19:50:22 lol Jan 27 19:51:16 I don't love the inverted page look, wazd. Jan 27 19:51:39 ouchy! the editing help at the footer says it will open in a new window, it doesnt and i wouldv lost work :O Jan 27 19:51:45 Seems like it adds a lot of overhead for little benefit. Jan 27 19:52:03 no, the computer doesnt have to work as hard sending black pixels around Jan 27 19:52:09 lcuk, worked fine for me (browser forces them to tabs) Jan 27 19:52:10 lcuk, you should set your browser to remember post data Jan 27 19:52:28 lcuk, take a look http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WYSIWYG_editor Jan 27 19:52:49 w00 lardman_ :D Jan 27 19:52:59 lcuk, it's vor wikipedia software, no idea if maemowiki uses the same syntax Jan 27 19:54:23 "s/vor/for/g" Jan 27 19:54:42 Hello Jan 27 19:55:04 Alendit_, :) thanks for that Jan 27 19:55:42 I am trying to get the python2.5 sdk but I only get that the package couldnt found, anyone got experience with that? Jan 27 19:55:49 lcuk, np Jan 27 19:57:37 hey johnx Jan 27 19:58:00 lardman_, got a new first-boot-wizard that's happy to make me a user called 'simon' :) Jan 27 19:58:08 :) Jan 27 19:58:18 good stuff, any ideas what the problem was? Jan 27 19:58:41 It's allergic to Simon's? :P Jan 27 19:58:45 probably was one of the parts where I was reworking first-boot-wizard earlier today Jan 27 19:58:46 oi! Jan 27 19:58:49 :p Jan 27 19:59:00 do you have a link for the deb then? Jan 27 19:59:08 it's in the repo Jan 27 19:59:17 extras-dev? Jan 27 19:59:19 apt-get update && apt-get install first-boot-wizard or I can find you a link Jan 27 19:59:27 hmm? it's in the mer repo Jan 27 19:59:30 no worries, I can do that Jan 27 19:59:36 ah, what's the mer repo then? Jan 27 19:59:45 it's setup in your mer install Jan 27 19:59:51 just chroot and use apt-get Jan 27 20:00:03 it's not part of maemo, it's part of mer Jan 27 20:00:18 oh, ok, how do I chroot? Never done that before Jan 27 20:00:40 lardman, grit your teeth Jan 27 20:00:42 first of all, where do you have mer installed? Jan 27 20:01:19 it's basically just: chroot /mnt/place/where/mer/is/mounted su - Jan 27 20:01:48 Stskeeps, it works, awesome, thx a lot Jan 27 20:01:51 * qwerty12_N800 would recommend binding in case. I used: 'sudo mount -o bind /dev "/mnt/mer/dev" ; sudo mount -o bind /proc "/mnt/mer/proc" ; sudo mount -t devpts none "/mnt/mer/dev/pts" ; sudo mount -o bind /tmp "/mnt/mer/tmp" ; sudo mount -o bind /sys "/mnt/mer/sys"' Jan 27 20:02:26 ... Jan 27 20:03:07 hi Jan 27 20:03:21 lardman, actually, instead of apt-get, just grab this deb: http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/f/first-boot-wizard/first-boot-wizard_0.2-mer2_armel.deb Jan 27 20:03:26 \o/ Convert Microsoft Word document content to MediaWiki markup. This is a Word Visual Basic macro. Usage requires a running copy of Microsoft Word that supports Visual Basic macros. (Word 97 or greater). Jan 27 20:03:35 and chroot and install. easier than getting networking up in a chroot Jan 27 20:03:37 for a one off import after im finished editing, thats perfect Jan 27 20:03:56 lcuk, as long as it's only your own page Jan 27 20:04:09 I worry heavily about what kind of wiki markup that will spit out Jan 27 20:04:09 lcuk, word = m$ = evil && eats babies ;) Jan 27 20:04:14 just trying to work out where Mer was installed Jan 27 20:04:32 sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk? Jan 27 20:04:43 look for likely huge ext2/3 partitions :) Jan 27 20:05:05 johnx, im gonna write a word macro to download every page in the wiki, convert it and reupload it. in reality ill use it on the one or two documents i need to create Jan 27 20:05:58 lcuk, ok...just warning you :) Jan 27 20:06:20 yeah i couldnt or wouldnt want to get wiki into word anywya Jan 27 20:06:44 urgh, mounting fails Jan 27 20:07:18 lardman, do you have ext3.ko loaded? Jan 27 20:07:24 lsmod | grep ext Jan 27 20:08:04 ah, I thought it was ext2 Jan 27 20:08:11 school-boy error Jan 27 20:09:07 errr...might be? Jan 27 20:09:11 either one can work Jan 27 20:09:11 what's the secret for ext3 then, what else do I need to insert?> Jan 27 20:09:20 I have ext2 loaded Jan 27 20:09:24 jbd mbcache and ext3 Jan 27 20:09:49 cool Jan 27 20:10:30 much better - ext2 only needs mbcache; the fs is ext3 and won't be recognised without that module loaded Jan 27 20:10:44 which is odd, as I thought it could fall back to ext2 Jan 27 20:10:48 anyway Jan 27 20:11:14 it won't fall back unless you tell it to Jan 27 20:11:26 mount -t ext2 ... would have been fine Jan 27 20:11:33 no, I tried that Jan 27 20:11:42 odd Jan 27 20:12:43 yeah, probably the wonders of busybox Jan 27 20:13:03 right, I've run qwerty's commands now Jan 27 20:13:08 how do I know it worked? Jan 27 20:13:21 did your prompt change? Jan 27 20:13:33 Stskeeps: ping Jan 27 20:13:45 pong Jan 27 20:13:50 wooh Jan 27 20:13:59 hang on, just waiting for apt-get update to finish Jan 27 20:14:03 wrong route Jan 27 20:14:29 and/or: ls /etc/rc.local Jan 27 20:16:18 nah, didn't work Jan 27 20:16:37 apt-get update failed? Jan 27 20:17:12 or the chroot failed? Jan 27 20:17:29 qwerty's lot failed Jan 27 20:17:46 so you're not actually chrooted? Jan 27 20:17:49 I then tried the chroot, got the following: su: Authentication failure, (Ignored) Jan 27 20:18:07 I might be now though as that file now exists Jan 27 20:18:07 are you root? Jan 27 20:18:09 Hey. Jan 27 20:18:12 ok, the 2GB vfat partition on my n810 (the one that mounts on the PC) got corrupted again. Jan 27 20:18:14 of course :) Jan 27 20:18:27 I have a 770 with OS2007HE. I'm trying to run Pidgin 2.4.3, but it just crashes. Jan 27 20:18:29 Any ideas? Jan 27 20:18:35 Maybe where to get an older version? Jan 27 20:18:39 ok, it's chrooted now Jan 27 20:18:43 lardman, then copy the .deb files I linked into the place where mer is mounted and do this: chroot /mnt/mer su - Jan 27 20:18:54 and vfat is crap anyway. I'd like something more linux-friendly, ie that can save the users and permissions, etc Jan 27 20:19:21 but... doesn't look like the kernel on the tablet (diablo) supports ext3, or even ext2 Jan 27 20:19:27 what's a good fs to use? Jan 27 20:19:39 it does, once modules are loaded Jan 27 20:19:43 JasonWoof, first is your partition table correct? some shipped with a broken partition table Jan 27 20:19:46 I don't care a whole lot if win or mac can mount it, though that would be a nice bonus Jan 27 20:20:02 second, the modules are in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$(uname -r) Jan 27 20:20:09 I've re-partitioned it at some point Jan 27 20:20:24 cool Jan 27 20:21:13 GeneralAntilles, even with the cheatsheet, it doesnt tell me how to display a small box of just code, any ideas Jan 27 20:21:21 it makes it into paragraphs Jan 27 20:21:26 right, installed, time to reboot I take it, unless there are any last rights? Jan 27 20:21:34 lcuk, put a space at the beginning of the line Jan 27 20:21:35 lcuk, you want something like 'unformatted' or 'preformatted' Jan 27 20:21:36 or use
Jan 27 20:21:37  ok, so ext3 sounds good then.
Jan 27 20:21:40  thanks guys
Jan 27 20:21:47  ahhh thanks
Jan 27 20:21:57  JasonWoof, sure. e2fsprogs is in extras or extras-devel.
Jan 27 20:22:22  sweet :)
Jan 27 20:22:57  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Wikitext_examples
Jan 27 20:23:16  I was hoping I could format it without the help of a PC
Jan 27 20:23:47  because the wireless card on my laptop died, and I'm only online though the tablet
Jan 27 20:24:01  (ethernet over usb to the tablet, wireless from there to my router)
Jan 27 20:24:05  it can be done from tablet as root
Jan 27 20:24:12  eep. bummer. my laptop's wireless card works, but my laptop is dead
Jan 27 20:24:13  johnx: I hate to say it, but it's still broke
Jan 27 20:24:15  rad
Jan 27 20:24:41  lardman, I recommend changing your name :P
Jan 27 20:24:46  lol
Jan 27 20:24:57  lardman, still won't accept your username?
Jan 27 20:25:14  "qwerty" doens't work either
Jan 27 20:25:19  johnx: can't it be some thing in the realname so it wont add? :P
Jan 27 20:25:34  Stskeeps, he promises it was just spaces and letters
Jan 27 20:25:50  I wrote this: "Simon Pickering"
Jan 27 20:25:54  oh
Jan 27 20:25:56  which is my name
Jan 27 20:25:57  with quotes?
Jan 27 20:26:00  no
Jan 27 20:26:03  ah
Jan 27 20:26:22  lardman: and you used installer i guess or how did you untar it?
Jan 27 20:26:26  yeah, I can only assume that it barfing the first time messes something up the second time
Jan 27 20:26:35  Stskeeps: installer
Jan 27 20:26:48  even the new snapshot? file:///? hm :P
Jan 27 20:27:09  Stskeeps, it's almost certainly a problem with the first-boot-wizard from earlier today having messed something up
Jan 27 20:27:14  k
Jan 27 20:27:21  yep, the new file, though I had to do it from the interweb, file:/// wouldn't work
Jan 27 20:28:27  I may as well chroot and add my user?
Jan 27 20:29:05  lardman, yeah, or dpkg -r first-boot-wizard
Jan 27 20:29:20  errr...hmmm
Jan 27 20:29:37  is there a flag/file which it looks for?
Jan 27 20:29:56  it will only run if /etc/default/autologin doesn't exist
Jan 27 20:30:06  ok
Jan 27 20:30:16  otherwise I get a prompt?
Jan 27 20:30:47  I'll give it a go, bbiab
Jan 27 20:30:50  if you dpkg -r first-boot-wizard it will make you a user without asking you anything
Jan 27 20:31:05  with what user name?
Jan 27 20:31:09  "user"?
Jan 27 20:31:11  'user'
Jan 27 20:31:19  cool, will try that then
Jan 27 20:31:19  if you echo simon > /etc/default/autologin it will try to log you in as simon
Jan 27 20:31:36  but it won't set some things up...
Jan 27 20:31:59  johnx: snapshot is from last night btw
Jan 27 20:31:59  if you rm /etc/rc2.d/S60auto-startx and select console from rescue it will give you a console
Jan 27 20:32:05  which really wonders me why it died then :P
Jan 27 20:32:18  Stskeeps, yeah, probably a broken first-boot-wizard O_o;
Jan 27 20:32:23  sorry about that
Jan 27 20:32:33  I really can't figure out why it's still dying now though
Jan 27 20:32:48  it must have munched something on his install...
Jan 27 20:36:31  right, I've chrooted, and removed the first-boot-wizard
Jan 27 20:36:44  I tried useradd simon, but am told that the user already exists
Jan 27 20:37:10  well, that's likely the problem
Jan 27 20:37:19  ah, but why?
Jan 27 20:37:35  the wizard must have created the user, then sat there telling me the name was wrong
Jan 27 20:37:39  that area where it was telling you to try again is because adduser was failing somehow
Jan 27 20:37:57  yeah, but first time though was a fresh install
Jan 27 20:37:58  so it might have been able to add the user, but failed in another way
Jan 27 20:38:12  the first time through we have to assume the script was badly fubared
Jan 27 20:38:48  that version escaped without enough testing. I'll test a bit better from now on O_o;
Jan 27 20:38:53  fair enough, I'll try a reboot now and see what we get
Jan 27 20:38:57  ;)
Jan 27 20:39:01  no worries :)
Jan 27 20:39:16 * johnx hates causing regressions
Jan 27 20:39:35  well at least it's been found
Jan 27 20:40:04  delusered it?
Jan 27 20:40:21  no, kept the user, deleted the wizards
Jan 27 20:40:24  s/s//
Jan 27 20:40:24  lardman meant: no, kept the uer, deleted the wizards
Jan 27 20:40:31  hmm, not quite
Jan 27 20:40:46  is this the right approach: http://wiki.maemo.org/Liqbase_library_overview
Jan 27 20:40:50  k
Jan 27 20:41:01  desktop's come up :)
Jan 27 20:41:01  without the wizard auto-startx will adduser user
Jan 27 20:41:14  I set it to autologin simon
Jan 27 20:41:20  ah, ok then
Jan 27 20:41:29  might want to add yourself to some groups
Jan 27 20:41:47  ok
Jan 27 20:41:54  otherwise network manager might not work *sigh*
Jan 27 20:41:57  where do I find the source for the wizard?
Jan 27 20:42:09  if you install it again it won't mess with you :)
Jan 27 20:42:31  the source is on launchpad:
Jan 27 20:42:35  andre__, you know what's going to be fun? If/when Nokia starts pushing updates to individual applications.
Jan 27 20:42:39  waits for lp to come up
Jan 27 20:42:52  https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/first-boot-wizard
Jan 27 20:43:09  fn key doens't work to give numbers in the WPA password dialog
Jan 27 20:43:17  lardman: yeah, fn is a bit dodgy
Jan 27 20:43:21  ok
Jan 27 20:43:22  it gives keycodes over 256
Jan 27 20:43:27  xinput only understands 0-256
Jan 27 20:43:30  er, 0-255
Jan 27 20:43:45  ok
Jan 27 20:43:49  DarkenCZ is looking at it
Jan 27 20:44:45 * lardman crosses fingers for wpa password
Jan 27 20:45:20  "Mount internal FAT partition under /home/user/MyDocs instead of /media/mmc2.
Jan 27 20:45:20  "
Jan 27 20:45:26 * Stskeeps wonders how much will break cos of that
Jan 27 20:45:32  hmm?
Jan 27 20:45:35  that's what now?
Jan 27 20:45:37  ke-recv, fremantle
Jan 27 20:45:40  O_o
Jan 27 20:45:43 * johnx dies
Jan 27 20:46:29  that's like the kind of enhancement request I would laugh at as it got shot down
Jan 27 20:46:56  well it makes more sense than having it on friggen flash..
Jan 27 20:47:05  but vfat?
Jan 27 20:47:38  mmm
Jan 27 20:47:53  I suppose they want to have it mountable by a PC but how are they going to claw it away from running apps with open files...?
Jan 27 20:49:06  GeneralAntilles, when will it happen? :-)
Jan 27 20:49:50  heh
Jan 27 20:50:48  andre__, hopefully soon, hopefully never. . . .
Jan 27 20:50:53  Harmattan, maybe.
Jan 27 20:52:46  in the utopian future where maemo is based on mer and my n9000 makes piping hot coffee on demand
Jan 27 20:53:42  oh, coffee...
Jan 27 20:53:54  johnx/Stskeeps: have you tested row #2 in Mer/Sprints/0.7 (HAM in snapshots)? Might be worth a progress update
Jan 27 20:54:22  Jaffa_, will poke at it in a sec
Jan 27 20:54:38  actually I can do it right now :)
Jan 27 20:54:42  ta :)
Jan 27 20:54:51 * Jaffa_ was going to, but's now tied up in debmaster interviewing
Jan 27 20:54:57  as long as someone tells me where does gtk keep it's nice little stop sign icon
Jan 27 20:56:23  is there a good way to auto-load the ext3 kernel module?
Jan 27 20:56:52  eg at boot time
Jan 27 20:57:31  I formatted by /dev/mmcblk0p1 ext3 and I'd like it to mount automatically at bootup like it did when it was vfat
Jan 27 20:57:48  if you format the first partition on your internal card ext3 I think it might autoload ext3.ko and automount
Jan 27 20:57:58  otherwise you'll have to add it to an init script
Jan 27 20:58:15  it's worth testing before you crack open an editor though :)
Jan 27 21:00:26 * lardman__ wonders how to add himself to some groups with the term not working nor the network
Jan 27 21:00:37  any suggestions for which groups to add myself to?
Jan 27 21:00:41  lardman__: how many of you ?
Jan 27 21:00:47  Hi lardman__
Jan 27 21:00:49  just the one
Jan 27 21:00:54  hey dneary, etrunko
Jan 27 21:01:07 * lardman__ has poor connection
Jan 27 21:01:22  Where's lardman, lardman|gone and lardman_?
Jan 27 21:01:34  gone?
Jan 27 21:01:42  yeah, lardman|gone is at work, the rest are here, and will eventually die
Jan 27 21:01:52  lol
Jan 27 21:02:07  ops
Jan 27 21:02:11  lardman, plugdev netdev users admin audio video
Jan 27 21:02:57  lardman__: you popping over to the other place; or should we start without you?
Jan 27 21:03:57  b-man: did you get the diff for me?
Jan 27 21:04:45  ........ i'm having problems using it, the -ruN extension doesn't work :P
Jan 27 21:05:45 * b-man  tryed googling but still can not get it to work
Jan 27 21:05:49  b-man: fair enough, just send me a tar.gz of the latest :)
Jan 27 21:06:00  what's the sympton of h-a-m not working?
Jan 27 21:06:14  ok, sorry i could not get you a diff :(
Jan 27 21:06:20  johnx: no packages showing for instance and no applications installable
Jan 27 21:06:37  ah, ok. so if it doesn't start at all that's something different :)
Jan 27 21:06:49  that's not being member of users i think
Jan 27 21:07:01  b-man: hehe, it's rare anyone has to say sorry to me :) we're not in a rush and it's a learning experience for all of us
Jan 27 21:07:09  ah, hmmm
Jan 27 21:07:14  :)
Jan 27 21:07:21 * b-man is still having problems with wireless in ubuntu - even after installing a fixed version of hal and installing tablet-hw-n8x0-support
Jan 27 21:07:42  b-man, what sort of problems? disconnects?
Jan 27 21:08:08  no, it can't find the device
Jan 27 21:08:18  b-man: member of plugdev, netdev?
Jan 27 21:08:46  b-man: sign up for launchpad while you're at it
Jan 27 21:09:00  shure :)
Jan 27 21:10:33  Jaffa_: I'll pop over, let me find the name
Jan 27 21:11:37 * johnx wishes his bt headphones didn't cause him physical pain :(
Jan 27 21:11:53  heh
Jan 27 21:11:53  johnx: right, I made myself a member of the root group, wifi now works, but the terminal still won't open for me
Jan 27 21:12:03 * b-man wonders if the ubuntu community is aware of his efforts of getting pure ubuntu running on the tablets
Jan 27 21:12:20  lardman, x terminal or roxterm?
Jan 27 21:12:33  osso-xterm is included
Jan 27 21:12:47  oss-xerm
Jan 27 21:13:02  lardman: i really wonder if the image was unpacked in a wrong way or something
Jan 27 21:13:11  tar pzvxf is what i use, and making sure it's gnutar
Jan 27 21:13:33  I just used the installer
Jan 27 21:13:42  mmk
Jan 27 21:14:06  then again, since today i'm going to do linear algebra homework for the first time in 3 years, it is a typical murphys law day
Jan 27 21:14:10  :P
Jan 27 21:15:47  b-man: i'm going to upload it to extras-devel over the week probably
Jan 27 21:16:00  ok
Jan 27 21:17:47  re
Jan 27 21:17:51  wb
Jan 27 21:17:56  tx
Jan 27 21:18:05  anyway, not much hope afaict
Jan 27 21:18:13 * b-man finishes up packaging merinstaller_1.9.4-1mer1 and sends it to Stskeeps :)
Jan 27 21:18:24  and I have a huge lag here, so probably not much hope sorting it this evening either
Jan 27 21:18:52  lardman, alright, I'll beat on first-boot-wizard a little and maybe you can try a fresh install tomorrow if you want
Jan 27 21:19:03  sounds good, sorry for being a pita
Jan 27 21:19:14  not at all. quite the opposite
Jan 27 21:19:27  one thing I did notice, how to you disconnect from wifi?
Jan 27 21:19:29  I hate to have the one piece of mer that is pretty much 'all mine' be screwing up
Jan 27 21:19:30  lardman, better to have feedback
Jan 27 21:19:53  lcuk: yeah, I may be feeding back all too quickly though ;)
Jan 27 21:19:55  lardman, walk away from the access point?
Jan 27 21:20:04  johnx: :D
Jan 27 21:20:06  lardman: popping the battery, obviously
Jan 27 21:20:13  lol thats what its there for
Jan 27 21:20:21  but really, there's no way to disconnect afaict
Jan 27 21:20:35  lardman, if you had a xterm, maybe ifdown? :)
Jan 27 21:20:39  si, not too soon at all, better to iron out issues like this now before the knowldge is lost as people move onto other things
Jan 27 21:20:45  it appears my root password wasn't actually used, as I couldn't log in via ssh
Jan 27 21:20:53  xterm won't run
Jan 27 21:21:03  hence the if :)
Jan 27 21:21:06  hmm
Jan 27 21:21:18  ifdown is not ideal though, should be a gui option
Jan 27 21:21:39  lardman: NM is really just a symptom of ICD not being public, heh
Jan 27 21:21:46  then again, ICD is something nokia did well
Jan 27 21:21:54  lardman, try right clicking on nm-applet :)
Jan 27 21:22:14  btw, was anyone having problems  uploading to diablo extras-devel before?
Jan 27 21:22:49  Stskeeps: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.9.4-1mer1.tar.gz
Jan 27 21:22:56  b-man: thank you
Jan 27 21:24:01  your welcome, i just hope that bootmenu item issue doesn't re-appear
Jan 27 21:24:08  b-man: where do you develop nowadays btw?
Jan 27 21:24:15  ubuntu or maemo?
Jan 27 21:24:21  both
Jan 27 21:24:25  k
Jan 27 21:25:47 * b-man just got accepted into an advanced computer technology class at his highschool btw :D
Jan 27 21:25:52  woo :P
Jan 27 21:26:14 * Stskeeps didn't take anything in highschool seriously besides math and history
Jan 27 21:26:23  hehe
Jan 27 21:26:23  and philosophy
Jan 27 21:26:46 * b-man gose to a technical highschool - that's why ;)
Jan 27 21:26:53  I took computers seriously in high school: I was the sys admin.
Jan 27 21:26:55  export MODULE=mbcache jbd ext3
Jan 27 21:27:04  still wrong, should be MODULE="" ;)
Jan 27 21:27:11  wasn't the export port that was the issue :)
Jan 27 21:27:27 * b-man is the only person in his school to port an os to a device ;)
Jan 27 21:28:42  hehe
Jan 27 21:29:52 * qwerty12_N800 bought a £5 pair of headphones & discovers his N800 does actually do bass.
Jan 27 21:31:35  qwerty12; what would £5 be in $? :)
Jan 27 21:31:43  shush you
Jan 27 21:31:45 * Jucato waves at gnuton
Jan 27 21:32:08  jaffa: shhh :P
Jan 27 21:32:23  About 2p now; but not too long ago it'd've been $3002030203023
Jan 27 21:33:37  Jucato: Welcome in #Maemo :D
Jan 27 21:33:48  thank you thank you
Jan 27 21:33:51 * Jucato takes a bow :)
Jan 27 21:33:52  haha :D
Jan 27 21:33:56  b-man, $7 :)
Jan 27 21:34:31  oh :P
Jan 27 21:34:40 * qwerty12_N800  needs to figure out where the currency converter in qalculate is...
Jan 27 21:35:08 * b-man has a $20 pair of headphones
Jan 27 21:35:57  b-man: what's a user-space partition again?
Jan 27 21:36:24  qwerty12_N800: Google.
Jan 27 21:36:31  (or xe.com/ucc/ if you're feeling posh)
Jan 27 21:36:53  Stskeeps: it is the partition for the os :P
Jan 27 21:36:57  Jaffa_, thanks :). I settled on xe when I got $7 :)
Jan 27 21:37:21  aka root-filesystem ;)
Jan 27 21:37:31  b-man: ok
Jan 27 21:37:52  b-man: then why do we mkdosfs it? :P
Jan 27 21:39:25  b-man: i think you mean "would you like to format a FAT partition" :)
Jan 27 21:39:34  ahhhh, wait, i got mixed up - the user space is for user-storage - in fat32 - and then it is the rootfs partition - for mer
Jan 27 21:39:35  oooh, moblin news
Jan 27 21:39:47  johnx: oh?
Jan 27 21:39:54  Jaffa_, http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2184863928.html?kc=rss
Jan 27 21:39:55  johnx: they're quitting?
Jan 27 21:39:57  (second partition)
Jan 27 21:40:08  Stskeeps, targetting netbooks
Jan 27 21:40:25  2010
Jan 27 21:40:26  Seesh
Jan 27 21:40:27  looks like we were right not to wait for them or something silly like that :)
Jan 27 21:40:31  Well, it does cut down our competition.
Jan 27 21:40:43 * b-man needs some coffie
Jan 27 21:41:07  * please get some for me. :p
Jan 27 21:41:13  johnx: i think we'll have something sane already before 2010..
Jan 27 21:41:13  :P
Jan 27 21:41:21  either that or we will be insane
Jan 27 21:41:38  With all the bugs marked "Fixed in Fremantle", I have no doubts in my mind as to Fremantle being the shit ;)
Jan 27 21:41:42  Stskeeps, yeah, and we'll have it for MIDs and tablets, not cheap little notebooks
Jan 27 21:41:50  Stskeeps: shure, i'll change that in 1.9.5-1mer1 ;)
Jan 27 21:41:56  johnx: -and- cheap little notebooks :P
Jan 27 21:41:59  b-man: did already
Jan 27 21:41:59  :P
Jan 27 21:42:17 * b-man really needs coffee ;p
Jan 27 21:42:30  wow O_o sse3 required to play
Jan 27 21:42:37  well so much for portability
Jan 27 21:42:55  Hmm... maybe they realized there won't be a power-efficient x86 until 2010.
Jan 27 21:43:16  are they really serious about this moblin thing? this looks like a joke O_o;
Jan 27 21:44:05  johnx: time to incorporate ourselves and sell ourselves to intel.
Jan 27 21:44:06  :P
Jan 27 21:44:17  ;)
Jan 27 21:44:21  brb laundry room
Jan 27 21:44:24  Stskeeps, we're not selling out, we're cashing in!
Jan 27 21:45:01  b-man: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller/files
Jan 27 21:45:08  could you just review it quickly?
Jan 27 21:45:10  johnx, i love how the clutter video is not actual on device performance :)
Jan 27 21:45:27  i wonder if they are staying away from mids becuase of performance.. ?
Jan 27 21:45:51 * lcuk wonders how well liqbase will run on eee + touch
Jan 27 21:48:24  heh...they green screened their demo
Jan 27 21:48:25  awesome
Jan 27 21:48:45  err...nm...they overlayed a picture of a hand O_o
Jan 27 21:48:55  Yeah
Jan 27 21:48:58  Weird demo
Jan 27 21:48:58  even worse :)
Jan 27 21:49:03  Stskeeps: shure
Jan 27 21:49:17  Maybe a new cursor picture
Jan 27 21:49:28  That's probably what it's going to ship with
Jan 27 21:49:31  whiskey tango foxtrot
Jan 27 21:49:32  A giant finger for a cursor
Jan 27 21:49:55  heh
Jan 27 21:50:07 * lcuk gives it a finger
Jan 27 21:50:20  johnx, can we ship Mer with a middle finger for a cursor? :)
Jan 27 21:50:33  GeneralAntilles, I will leave the art to you
Jan 27 21:50:51  My hand's gonna be famous!
Jan 27 21:51:11  GeneralAntilles: Isn't that finger too tied up for photo ops, though?
Jan 27 21:51:31  lol GeneralAntilles :D you could be a hand model
Jan 27 21:51:51  lol   XD
Jan 27 21:52:44 * lcuk watches zoolander
Jan 27 21:52:59 * GeneralAntilles opens up Aperture.
Jan 27 21:53:21 * b-man looks at launchpad
Jan 27 21:57:22  Stskeeps: looking ok so far
Jan 27 21:58:23  b-man: question, did you ever use the mer imager?
Jan 27 21:58:29  can't remember if i made you install bzr back then or not
Jan 27 21:59:04  yes, that is actually what started merinstaller alpha1 :)
Jan 27 21:59:18  b-man: k, then you still have bzr installed on maemo?
Jan 27 21:59:28 * b-man checks
Jan 27 21:59:47  Stskeeps, there you go http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=260262
Jan 27 22:00:14  Stskeeps: i don't think so
Jan 27 22:01:00  k
Jan 27 22:01:04  b-man: got python installed on maemo?
Jan 27 22:01:12  yes
Jan 27 22:02:21  k, grab http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/bzr/bzr_1.10~rc1-1_armel.modfied.deb and dpkg -i it, and put the contents of http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/bzr/libz.tar.gz in /usr/lib/python2.5
Jan 27 22:03:06  (in ubuntu you would just have to apt-get install bzr)
Jan 27 22:03:39  Stskeeps, I may end up making that possible for Maemo ;)
Jan 27 22:04:08  qwerty12_N800: hehe, hopefully only installer component is what is needed to be used in maemo :P
Jan 27 22:04:48  :)
Jan 27 22:05:00  GeneralAntilles: did you ever you ever finish that community highlights post?
Jan 27 22:05:10  Stskeeps, nope
Jan 27 22:05:11  ok
Jan 27 22:05:18  Still a one-paragraph draft on my desktop.
Jan 27 22:05:19  or was it going to be too much of a Mer-spam post? ;)
Jan 27 22:05:28  Stskeeps, shuld i just use bzr in ubuntu instead?
Jan 27 22:06:09  b-man: well i guess you can chroot into ubuntu :P
Jan 27 22:06:10  (and save time) ;)
Jan 27 22:06:33 * b-man uses cdeb2 so it won't be a problem ;)
Jan 27 22:09:22  know how to generate SSH keys?
Jan 27 22:09:58  johnx: awake still?
Jan 27 22:10:07  yup
Jan 27 22:10:09  for a bit longer
Jan 27 22:10:22  johnx: k - in about an hour or so can i snapshot again?
Jan 27 22:10:33  Stskeeps, I was going to add (re: Sprints) that you might want to set only a single owner for each task
Jan 27 22:10:33  yeah, in an hour
Jan 27 22:10:42  Stskeeps, it's less obnoxious to track people down that way
Jan 27 22:10:49  GeneralAntilles: mm, true
Jan 27 22:10:53  Stskeeps, anybody else is, of course, free to help. :)
Jan 27 22:10:55  I won't do the incompat bootmenu message by then
Jan 27 22:11:02  johnx: fair enough
Jan 27 22:11:06  Stskeeps, but it's easier if you have one person that's directly responsible.
Jan 27 22:11:35  GeneralAntilles: think in sprint it was mainly a group effort so i wrote those on there, as in, first when it was complete :)
Jan 27 22:13:54  excuse me: what is the safer route in installing something that's in a repo you added (extras-devel) but doesn't appear in app manager? apt-get in the terminal or red pill?
Jan 27 22:14:10  Stskeeps: ssh-keygen? ;p
Jan 27 22:14:28  Jucato, apt-get
Jan 27 22:14:43  hm.. ok. thanks :)
Jan 27 22:14:45  Jucato, just carefully read what it asks to do before agreeing :)
Jan 27 22:14:55  b-man: yeah :P
Jan 27 22:15:07  b-man: and how to get the public keys out and put on launchpad.net profile page? ;) (theres an item for it)
Jan 27 22:15:21  johnx: hehe ok. I implicitly trust gnuton though :)
Jan 27 22:15:56  Stskeeps: i believe so :)
Jan 27 22:16:06  b-man: alrightie then
Jan 27 22:16:25  johnx: would it be a benefit to make nightly snapshots btw? could probably set that up
Jan 27 22:16:57  yeah, that might be nice
Jan 27 22:17:00  k
Jan 27 22:17:09  shorter waiting time for people who want to join in
Jan 27 22:21:43  hmm, must be having a bad tablet day, wifi stopped working in maemo for a while
Jan 27 22:21:52  Stskeeps: i believe i allrety have an ssh key uploaded to mer on launchpad
Jan 27 22:22:31  I'm back :)
Jan 27 22:22:37  johnx, I'm feeling lazy, so the alpha is crap but: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/new-cursor.png
Jan 27 22:22:48  hi, wazd
Jan 27 22:22:48  b-man: alright
Jan 27 22:23:06  hi wazd
Jan 27 22:23:06  b-man: heya
Jan 27 22:23:14  qwerty12_N800: hello :)
Jan 27 22:23:23  GeneralAntilles: i'm sure there's people on iTT that'd find that a statement from you ;)
Jan 27 22:23:24  lololololol GeneralAntilles
Jan 27 22:23:30  GeneralAntilles, ha. Pure win.
Jan 27 22:23:41  Hrm
Jan 27 22:23:42  GeneralAntilles: and hence you have your new iTT avatar.
Jan 27 22:23:49  I want to do a "clicking" animation for it now. . . .
Jan 27 22:23:54  Stskeeps, ha!
Jan 27 22:24:01  I should do that for April Fools
Jan 27 22:24:17  GeneralAntilles, good job you didnt use 2 fingers - apple wouldv come after you
Jan 27 22:24:56  lcuk: i'd suggest using lol x1000 instead of lololololol ;)
Jan 27 22:25:13  hehe
Jan 27 22:25:30  nahhh, im using a BT keyboard on my tablet, it repeats easily :)
Jan 27 22:25:40  l(ol)^5
Jan 27 22:25:44  the apple thing is a serious consideration
Jan 27 22:26:00  benson lol^100
Jan 27 22:26:09  i will have to read up properly on what it means
Jan 27 22:27:41  Stskeeps, btw, dunno why hildon-plugins-settings creates a duplicate app menu. there's no mention of the app launcher in the source :/
Jan 27 22:29:17  qwerty12_N800: prolly due to the broken references in conf
Jan 27 22:29:53  it's also odd because I have only one app menu reference in .osso/hildon-desktop too.
Jan 27 22:30:06  so um
Jan 27 22:30:09  i'm around
Jan 27 22:30:19  and i'm willing to create a couple of extras products
Jan 27 22:30:22  someone give me a list :)
Jan 27 22:30:23  A similar effect seemed to show up in Chinook, FWIW.
Jan 27 22:31:12  Back then I was trying to expand the task selector by removing one of them, and it duplicated the app menu for me.
Jan 27 22:33:32  timeless, there's no queue at the moment.
Jan 27 22:35:06  have you guys poked the more active projects?
Jan 27 22:36:18  Sort of
Jan 27 22:36:23  Carman's kinda in limbo at the moment
Jan 27 22:36:31  johnx are you there?
Jan 27 22:36:57  Dado_, yeah
Jan 27 22:37:05  back again ;-)
Jan 27 22:38:30  ok, you maybe remind my mampt problem ;-)
Jan 27 22:38:54  yup
Jan 27 22:39:00  don't remember where we left off though
Jan 27 22:40:03  ok i thought all libs were installed and i can install mampt itself
Jan 27 22:40:06  BUT
Jan 27 22:40:25 * timeless cries
Jan 27 22:40:26  wenn i try it i get an error something is missing
Jan 27 22:40:51  my debianish system has files in /usr/lib which are um... symlinks to /home/timeless
Jan 27 22:40:59  details: libmompt >= 0.2-0 is missing
Jan 27 22:41:00  timeless, O_o
Jan 27 22:41:08  lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          63 Jan  7  2008 /home/zones/solaris/nexenta/install/root/usr/lib/libapt-pkg-.so.3.11 -> /home/timeless/apt/apt-0.6.43.3nexenta3/bin/libapt-pkg-.so.3.11
Jan 27 22:41:08  timeless, eurgh
Jan 27 22:41:24  note that /home/timeless is totally misplaced
Jan 27 22:41:35  missing package libmompt
Jan 27 22:41:38  it'd need to be .../root/home/timeless
Jan 27 22:42:07  timeless: scary, i'm seemingily not the only one running nexenta
Jan 27 22:42:08  apt-cache search mompt gives me:
Jan 27 22:42:23  sts: i'm not running it anymore
Jan 27 22:42:26  mompt_lib
Jan 27 22:42:29  i was running it for a few years
Jan 27 22:42:34  but now it doesn't boot
Jan 27 22:42:39  ah
Jan 27 22:42:47 * Stskeeps runs it on his two fileservers
Jan 27 22:42:55  Dado_, have you seen this? http://repository.embedded.ufcg.edu.br/pool/chinook/main/binary-armel/
Jan 27 22:43:39  oha!
Jan 27 22:43:45  no didn't seen it
Jan 27 22:43:56  i used nexenta to deal w/ dpkg/apt-get
Jan 27 22:44:07  can i add this as an repo?
Jan 27 22:44:33  nexenta live(s|d) in a zone
Jan 27 22:44:34  or should i install from this dir directly?
Jan 27 22:45:06  Dado_, that's what the 'click to install' file should have added, but it's for an older version of OS2008 (maemo 4.0 instead of 4.1)
Jan 27 22:45:17  so you might just want get the files you need and install manually
Jan 27 22:45:22  GeneralAntilles: how many different threads on Re: maemo.org is there atm? i'm confused :P
Jan 27 22:45:30  or you could add the repository manually
Jan 27 22:46:15  im not sure how to add manually a repo, ill try it..
Jan 27 22:46:48  if you look at the install file: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3942/mampt.install
Jan 27 22:47:08  so distribution: chinook
Jan 27 22:47:13  components: main
Jan 27 22:47:23  location/address: http://repository.embedded.ufcg.edu.br/
Jan 27 22:47:53  If it's already added from that install then just change tge catalogue from blank to chinook
Jan 27 22:48:01  s/tge/the/
Jan 27 22:48:02  qwerty12_N800 meant: If it's already added from that install then just change the catalogue from blank to chinook
Jan 27 22:49:35  Stskeeps, threads?
Jan 27 22:49:59  Stskeeps, there are a bunch on -community. :P
Jan 27 22:50:09  GeneralAntilles: mm.
Jan 27 22:50:36  Stskeeps, hold off on the image for a couple mintues. about to put a really fixed first-boot-wizard into place
Jan 27 22:53:03  ok now i understand where what to write for a repo :-)
Jan 27 22:53:31  and i say: "i'm sooo excited, and i just can't hide it!" ;-)
Jan 27 22:54:01  many, many thanks johnx
Jan 27 22:54:15  does it work?
Jan 27 22:54:22  also...what does mampt do?
Jan 27 22:54:52  i have to install the serverpart too, this is my program for tomorrow
Jan 27 22:55:05  you know the win program mediaportal?
Jan 27 22:55:30 * Jaffa_ ponders: sleep or trying to narrow down some mud issues.
Jan 27 22:55:32  its opensource and something like mythTV
Jan 27 22:56:33  if i understand it right, then i now can stream TV or whatever i recorded to my n800
Jan 27 22:57:11  johnx: its fine
Jan 27 22:59:09  i'll give you a short notice, when i stream my first program to the nokia. ;-)
Jan 27 22:59:12  bye
Jan 27 22:59:17  sounds good :)
Jan 27 22:59:19  later Dado_
Jan 27 22:59:56  Did XBMC/MediaPortal ever get anywhere with running on Linux?
Jan 27 23:00:17  jaffa, can your mud builder work like distcc - ie could it be setup as a webservice and be passed (small) modular sources and return working binaries?
Jan 27 23:00:23  xbmc? yeah, it looks great
Jan 27 23:00:33  and boxee is based on it and looks better than great
Jan 27 23:01:07  too bad I don't spend much time in front of my tv...
Jan 27 23:01:16  johnx: so clipboard manager worked ok with HIM now?
Jan 27 23:01:27  how do I test it?
Jan 27 23:01:37  lcuk: it could be - and definitely with the new package format now in. However, isn't that basically what the autobuilder does? ;-)
Jan 27 23:02:01  yeah, but autobuilder creates whole packages and does a lot more than im thinking
Jan 27 23:02:47  lcuk: so, what'd you send "the thing", and what'd you get back?
Jan 27 23:03:03  for instance, if someone wanted to make a decent widget or new applet or something else small (ie99% of apps on device) they wouldnt need to setup devkit
Jan 27 23:03:04  johnx: maemopad :P
Jan 27 23:03:12  lcuk: if this is for personal stuff, a couple of scripts around SSH and Scratchbox might be easier
Jan 27 23:03:21  lcuk: hmm. Interesting.
Jan 27 23:03:48  lcuk, but the leap from binary to package is just putting it in an archive
Jan 27 23:03:59  the sources for things like adv-backlight are all mainly single file single instance and the system knows where its expected to go
Jan 27 23:04:12  yes johnx, agreed
Jan 27 23:04:17  http://www.reallifecomics.com/ <- this so applies for tablet use once in a while..
Jan 27 23:04:22  Oh damn
Jan 27 23:04:38  The cat horked up a furball on my last set of clean sheets. <_<
Jan 27 23:04:42  Eugh
Jan 27 23:04:52  :/
Jan 27 23:04:56 * GeneralAntilles was 2 seconds too late.
Jan 27 23:05:04  jaffa, what if the user could just edit their code on the wiki and get the resulting binary immediately
Jan 27 23:07:00  lcuk: a web site which provided a JavaScript syntax-highlighting editor for Python, C (and maybe Vala), and dumped you out a binary or a tarball. And had sessions... could be cool.
Jan 27 23:07:09  I've often thought about a code-oriented wiki
Jan 27 23:07:11  +1
Jan 27 23:07:31 * Jaffa_ will ponder :-)
Jan 27 23:07:44  even if it just packaged and pushed the created items into its own repository for other users to install
Jan 27 23:08:08  so when someone else visits a few weeks later they can get the end results quickly as well
Jan 27 23:08:11  and I would call this service ssh john@my-boxen screen vi code.c
Jan 27 23:08:24  johnx, customer facing please :)
Jan 27 23:08:37  s/john/$PREFERED_USER/
Jan 27 23:08:38  johnx meant: and I would call this service ssh $PREFERED_USER@my-boxen screen vi code.c
Jan 27 23:08:44  Hmmm... how would this differ from a javascript/cgi terminal-emulator w/ screen?
Jan 27 23:08:47  Jaffa_, its the inverse of what im planning anyway - i want direct on device ide
Jan 27 23:09:05  but along the right lines :)
Jan 27 23:09:24  benson: a) it'd be a service you could offer to people who didn't have a suitable box; b) it's slightly more secure; c) the principle is the same.
Jan 27 23:09:26  http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gcc-exception-faq.html <- wtf :P
Jan 27 23:09:55  I suppose lcuk is thinking about people who might want to play on the move (HSPA == ~always on) and not do on-device compilation; or do simple Python home applets etc.
Jan 27 23:10:04  Especially since you could have templates for getting started.
Jan 27 23:10:24  Ok, I'd grant B, but you can push a shell through a browser to the $whoever.
Jan 27 23:10:34  But then, you wouldn't because of B/
Jan 27 23:10:49  benson: yes, isn't that a technical implementation of what lcuk's suggesting?
Jan 27 23:10:56  Ok, I've revamped slightly community list: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer/Community
Jan 27 23:11:09  The point being making that available to all, wherever/whenever
Jan 27 23:11:14  It's non-arrangable now but whatever :)
Jan 27 23:11:24  grrr...cx3110x
Jan 27 23:11:37  wazd: is it supposed to be readable? Every other row for me is white text on a white background ;-)
Jan 27 23:12:08  wazd: and I'm still not convinced about how usable this design will be for new Mer pages where we haven't got you to do new headings (which Google Translate can't translate)
Jan 27 23:12:25  wazd: i (personally) cling a bit to the style of current page at the moment
Jan 27 23:12:34  but that's because i'm a minimalist :P
Jan 27 23:12:57  yes Jaffa_ im interested in quick and simple.  i can open visual basic here and have a rough idea specced out in a few minutes.  im just wanting the same mouldable putty for my tablet
Jan 27 23:13:01  Jaffa_: I think you're right bout the headers, they are too... bright :)
Jan 27 23:13:21  they are also out of focus
Jan 27 23:13:49  hello
Jan 27 23:13:53  Jaffa_: what browser do you use?
Jan 27 23:14:04  wazd: Firefox 3
Jan 27 23:14:05  wazd, same white banding for me
Jan 27 23:14:09  wazd, it's the same for me: white on white in ff3
Jan 27 23:14:21  whathehell...
Jan 27 23:14:23  ooho no, they arent out of focus, its my eyes
Jan 27 23:14:25  similar
Jan 27 23:14:27  (ff3)
Jan 27 23:14:41  All ok, (ff3) xD
Jan 27 23:14:57  well keep it as it is, its your name thats whited out
Jan 27 23:15:04  you have blue rows as white or black?
Jan 27 23:15:08  wazd, did you tweak your default font color?
Jan 27 23:15:35  wazd: johnx's row is white background (although it should be rgb(22, 35, 47) according to firebug
Jan 27 23:15:47  Oh no, that's the row above
Jan 27 23:15:53  it's ok. my name is the important part :)
Jan 27 23:15:53  The second row has no background style at all
Jan 27 23:17:11  hey everyone i have an issue with flashblock with microb
Jan 27 23:17:19  Is my row ok now?
Jan 27 23:17:54  nope
Jan 27 23:18:35  ah
Jan 27 23:18:37  and now?)
Jan 27 23:18:39 * Stskeeps dies viewing the source
Jan 27 23:18:51  nope
Jan 27 23:19:00  it blocks one but then duplicaztes that and puts the doubled one below it and its not blocked
Jan 27 23:19:05  wazd: yes - your row is ok now
Jan 27 23:19:11  Stskeeps: I'm arranging it for reading right now)
Jan 27 23:19:18  ah, yup, last time was the charm
Jan 27 23:19:25  Jaffa_: ok, I'll fix others then
Jan 27 23:19:56  Jaffa: no background color specification means white by default I guess
Jan 27 23:20:01  Yup
Jan 27 23:20:05  b-man, do you have this weird flashblock issue
Jan 27 23:20:08  how umm maintainable is this though - its meant to be a wiki - my mind almost asploded with default wiki markup, but it looks like a minefield in there
Jan 27 23:20:08  Jaffa: not transparent as always
Jan 27 23:20:10  (with the CSS defined, as it is, anyway)
Jan 27 23:20:41  Either the difference in background color is _very_ subtle, or this monitor is badly tuned.
Jan 27 23:20:47  wazd: i kinda worry about the effect of it .. with the current page it doesn't enforce a certain layout on rest of the pages whereas yours do
Jan 27 23:20:48  Shadow_M: from microb?
Jan 27 23:20:50  (Not one I normally use.)
Jan 27 23:20:59  yeah b-man
Jan 27 23:21:03  benson, a little of both probably? an old CRT?
Jan 27 23:21:07  I think it might need accentuated a hair
Jan 27 23:21:09  Yep.
Jan 27 23:21:11  wazd: and it wouldn't be good to cause "trouble" in the editing/collaborative aspects of the pages
Jan 27 23:21:21  no, i don't use flashblock
Jan 27 23:21:37  wazd: that said, it does look interesting and nicely designed :P
Jan 27 23:21:44  Stskeeps: you're belonging to the group of persons woh dosn't need to sleep?!
Jan 27 23:21:45  rm_you: yes I am on Ravelry, with the same nickname
Jan 27 23:22:01  b-man ill goto youtube to watch a video and the video will be blocked but then it makes a duplicate of that vid under it and that isnt blocked
Jan 27 23:22:06  radic: i'm belonging to the group of people who are studying to recall what they learnt in calculus 6 years ago
Jan 27 23:22:37  ugh...calc
Jan 27 23:22:54  johnx: this is my -last- course, hopefully ever on this masters degree
Jan 27 23:23:04  Shadow_M: 0_o that is strange
Jan 27 23:23:36  yeah b-man your telling me i made that exact look when i saw it
Jan 27 23:23:56  hehe
Jan 27 23:24:26  i'd suggest that u report it to bugzilla ;)
Jan 27 23:24:29  Yeah, it's more distinct on my laptop. (Of course, that's an STN, so it means little...) Probably ok.
Jan 27 23:24:54  hmm alright only happened on this install
Jan 27 23:25:38  Shadow_M: have you tryed re-installing flashblock?
Jan 27 23:26:58  yup numerous times how would you suggest i try it i install flashblock from repos
Jan 27 23:29:37  Shadow_M: i'm not quite shure, it looks like a re-appearing bug, i'd suggest that you report it to bugzilla
Jan 27 23:29:52  hmm alright
Jan 27 23:31:26 * b-man doesn't get why glxgears works in ubuntu chroot from maemo but doesn't work in booted ubuntu
Jan 27 23:31:28  version 1.5.6a-1
Jan 27 23:32:16  Stskeeps, alright, a couple quick tests and I'll call first-boot-wizard good. hopefully I'm not keeping you up ...
Jan 27 23:32:26  johnx: nah
Jan 27 23:32:47  Shadow_M: k
Jan 27 23:33:14  ok, now everything should be fine and code shoud be readable)
Jan 27 23:34:45  any thoughts about the sqlite3 error: "library routine called out of sequence" returned when I try to sqlite3_open() a file?
Jan 27 23:34:59  lardman: forgot some kind of _init thing?
Jan 27 23:35:14  dunno, I didn't think it needed anything
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 27 23:37:37 2009
Jan 27 23:38:39  Jaffa: sorry I didn't make it, my connection was very laggy
Jan 27 23:38:52  Stskeeps: well, it would be consistent inside Mer zone. Like community, downloads, development and so on
Jan 27 23:39:18  lardman: no probs. You got the log?
Jan 27 23:39:24  wazd: yeah.. except for instance sprints would have a more prominent role and documentation, and those would have to be rapid development and editing
Jan 27 23:39:27  yep, will take a look tomorrow
Jan 27 23:39:29  thanks
Jan 27 23:39:56  lardman, does your sqlite stuff work normally?
Jan 27 23:40:02  Stskeeps: "About: is hopefully going to evolve quicly as mer itself does
Jan 27 23:40:07  lcuk: no, I can't open the db :)
Jan 27 23:40:17  wazd: not saying the final homepage will be on a wiki, obviously, but for the fact we're going for a hell of a ride the next half year, we need things not to be a blocker to the progress :)
Jan 27 23:40:25  point it at a file which doesnt exist and see if it will createi t for you
Jan 27 23:40:40  it might be a corruption in the file you are testing with
Jan 27 23:40:50  I'd expect a better error message though
Jan 27 23:41:19  is this the first thing you've tried to run db stuff or has it worked on earlier builds?
Jan 27 23:41:44  nah, it probably didn't work then either, I;ve just added lots of error checking to work out why
Jan 27 23:41:57  johnx: built and good to go?
Jan 27 23:42:00  no, even when trying to create a new file it has the same odd error
Jan 27 23:42:00  lol
Jan 27 23:42:04  Stskeeps, testing
Jan 27 23:42:06  k
Jan 27 23:42:26  I'd like to try out most of the places where it can end up this time instead of just trusting it
Jan 27 23:43:07  btw, some really exciting stuff - -color- photos of Russia in 1907 http://zagony.ru/2008/06/02/cvetnye-fotografii-dorevoljucionnojj-rossii..html
Jan 27 23:44:05  this is not photoshop colorisation - everything is real)
Jan 27 23:44:49  wazd: the world was in greyscale back then, don't try to convince me otherwise ;)
Jan 27 23:44:52  lardman, you're just racking up the blog requirements, :P
Jan 27 23:44:54  wazd: one of the first :)
Jan 27 23:45:05  wazd, aaah! I recognize that photo of the guy on the river :)
Jan 27 23:45:06  lardman, http://pastebin.ca/1320073
Jan 27 23:45:06  Eastman Kodak film?
Jan 27 23:45:15  GeneralAntilles: well I reckon if I hold off long enough I'll be voted out before that happens :p
Jan 27 23:45:16  AStorm: nooo
Jan 27 23:45:18  I even know the technique used :)
Jan 27 23:45:28  AStorm: this guy was a real genius
Jan 27 23:45:30  wazd, i remember seeing those photos on zzz.com.ru back in the day :)
Jan 27 23:45:35  lardman, then they transfer over to cases of beer. :P
Jan 27 23:45:48  lol
Jan 27 23:45:58  AStorm: he made 3 photos with green, blue and red filters
Jan 27 23:46:06  Though I don't drink
Jan 27 23:46:12  So I think I'll make that pounds of bacon.
Jan 27 23:46:13  ahh, like Technicolor ;P
Jan 27 23:46:24  mmmmmmmm
Jan 27 23:46:26  and probably then used proper dyes
Jan 27 23:46:37  AStorm: and after century negatives were remastered in PS
Jan 27 23:46:46  ahha
Jan 27 23:46:46  lcuk: thanks, the only difference is that I'm using a literal string, not a var, perhaps that's an issue
Jan 27 23:46:55  :)
Jan 27 23:46:59  shouldnt imagine so
Jan 27 23:47:02  I'm really shocked bout the quality
Jan 27 23:47:13  yes, they look better than the n800 webcam.
Jan 27 23:47:13  :P
Jan 27 23:47:17  (by the way, is the code documented properly, its the kind of thing the library examples will look like)
Jan 27 23:47:35  They look like super-expensive today's monsters
Jan 27 23:47:50  lolol Stskeeps
Jan 27 23:48:02  wazd, there are some earlier color photos around somewhere.
Jan 27 23:48:22  wazd: greyscale film of the time was excellent
Jan 27 23:48:29  GeneralAntilles: nah, not really
Jan 27 23:48:43  AStorm, yes, yeah really.
Jan 27 23:48:57  AStorm, greyscale film now is excellent as well :) 3x resolution of colored
Jan 27 23:49:22  ah, I think it now dawns on me
Jan 27 23:49:23  I should try to make that kind of photographs
Jan 27 23:49:27  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ducos_du_Hauron
Jan 27 23:49:47  i want a true proper high resolution greyscale monitor
Jan 27 23:49:50  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_photography - hmm, 1907 has first practical color
Jan 27 23:49:53  :>
Jan 27 23:49:58  GeneralAntilles: well, that looks like crap in compare :)
Jan 27 23:50:08 * GeneralAntilles sighs.
Jan 27 23:50:17  It's a photograph, it's in color, I thought it might interest.
Jan 27 23:50:24  Apologies for starting an argument. :roll:
Jan 27 23:50:26  wazd, the first phone call sounded like crap
Jan 27 23:50:45  lcuk: I mean in compare with that triplex technology
Jan 27 23:50:48  actually, thats no good
Jan 27 23:50:51  they still sound crap
Jan 27 23:50:56  GeneralAntilles: nono, it's still interesting!)
Jan 27 23:51:00  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Mikhailovich_Prokudin-Gorskii - his method? :P
Jan 27 23:51:20  AStorm: yeah
Jan 27 23:51:36  lol AStorm this guy reminds me of GeneralAntilles :D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alleia_Hamerops_composite.jpg
Jan 27 23:51:39  oh, it's 1909
Jan 27 23:51:58  lcuk: xDDD
Jan 27 23:52:19  it doesnt matter anyway, colored paintings give something a photograph never can :)
Jan 27 23:52:38  its one thing to capture the drive and emotion of the subject, but its another to capture the artist as well
Jan 27 23:52:56  Damn, I need to get film camera and filters
Jan 27 23:53:18  why not just use photoshop
Jan 27 23:53:21  lcuk: drawing is boring)
Jan 27 23:54:06  lcuk: well, why not just use d-slr )
Jan 27 23:54:09  i bet most paintings will last much longer than most digital media
Jan 27 23:54:41  lcuk: paintings are good
Jan 27 23:54:55  lcuk: but drawing is sooo boring)
Jan 27 23:56:01 * lcuk doodles and makes patterns and shapes and entertains his mind
Jan 27 23:56:11  omg - we need a real crossword program on device
Jan 27 23:56:29  a real one where we fill it in or wordsearches where we draw along the words
Jan 27 23:56:42  :)
Jan 27 23:57:07 * b-man could see lcuk as a part-time cartoonest
Jan 27 23:57:08  AStorm, fancy testing out your character recognition sometime soon?
Jan 27 23:57:15  no, you don't
Jan 27 23:57:23  it works, but I've no subitizing done yet
Jan 27 23:57:35  w/o that, it's fairly useless
Jan 27 23:57:37  :) no rush at all
Jan 27 23:57:37  omg this is driving me up the wall
Jan 27 23:57:47  i don't want to get rid of kubuntu on this macbook but i need the adhoc shit to work
Jan 27 23:57:49  considering using a "lasso" algorithm
Jan 27 23:57:49  just thinking of a way to get it tested
Jan 27 23:57:50  bastard!
Jan 27 23:58:02  where are you in the world astorm?
Jan 27 23:58:14  Poland, the crack of EU
Jan 27 23:58:14  ;)
Jan 27 23:59:08  AStorm, what's up with you? You snorting Poland or something? :P
Jan 27 23:59:21  no, not *that* kind of crack
Jan 27 23:59:30  the lower bottom one
Jan 27 23:59:44  eewwww, yuo snort dired feces?
Jan 27 23:59:46  that's what I was asking
Jan 27 23:59:49  s/yuo/you/
Jan 27 23:59:50  jakemaheu meant: eewwww, you snort dired feces?
Jan 27 23:59:53  AStorm, ill make sure that there is an api available for us to plugin and test different variations on the recognition
Jan 27 23:59:54  ewww indeed
Jan 28 00:00:04  then it must be true
Jan 28 00:00:08  lcuk: the architecture is modular
Jan 28 00:00:22  I'm writing a LaTeX doc about this
Jan 28 00:00:30  damn, why my widget has 40 votes, and some n0gage crap has fucking 8k votes! >:(
Jan 28 00:00:31  it will be :) and it will let you test quietly if you like
Jan 28 00:00:44  wazd, go to the end - the notes one has 40k
Jan 28 00:00:46  lcuk: the trick is Python and that detection should be made on-line and not after clicking some button ;P
Jan 28 00:00:47  i said this
Jan 28 00:01:13  i need to upload mine as well thinking about it
Jan 28 00:01:18  infobot: we didn't need to know that   XP
Jan 28 00:01:19  brb
Jan 28 00:01:20  lcuk: I see 12k
Jan 28 00:01:34  wheres link, i mightv got figures wrong
Jan 28 00:01:44  lcuk: but it was the first widget, and n-gage came after mine(
Jan 28 00:01:47  got it
Jan 28 00:02:14  wazd: URL?
Jan 28 00:02:21  lcuk: the only problem with lassoing is that it's heuristic
Jan 28 00:02:37  I'm trying to reduce the number of heuristics in the code
Jan 28 00:02:38  what are you lassoing?
Jan 28 00:02:53  for subitizing, that is, separating letters
Jan 28 00:03:13  http://2009.nseries.com/competition/gallery/1.aspx
Jan 28 00:04:20  hmmm i go with a top down approach.  for each new stroke i draw, i get its boundary, and check if its nearly overlapping any other strokes.    if they are overlapping partially, i then check point by point.  if they are detected as being close then they are considered part of the same island
Jan 28 00:04:46  except that'll fail on, say, ol vs d
Jan 28 00:04:47  :)
Jan 28 00:04:52  and 13 vs B
Jan 28 00:04:54  no, it doesnt
Jan 28 00:05:04  the letters are apart
Jan 28 00:05:04 * b-man decides to install dpkg-dev in ubuntu in an attempt to lern how to make (real) deb packages
Jan 28 00:05:06  they do not touch
Jan 28 00:05:09  it does, and "nearly overlapping" is heuristics
Jan 28 00:05:11  no no, wrong
Jan 28 00:05:22  I want to subitize continuous handwriting
Jan 28 00:05:30  the nearly overlapping is to simply ensure i get those which are 1 pixel apart but outside each others boundary
Jan 28 00:05:34  not split - that'd be easy
Jan 28 00:05:35  yes, i do
Jan 28 00:05:56  stroke by stroke, but each stroke may be a new letter, or it might be a crossbar of a T or something
Jan 28 00:06:21  the problem is that this won't work w/o a decision tree
Jan 28 00:06:22  if they touch or are entirely engulfed they are together
Jan 28 00:06:29  Stskeeps: what text should be on that error screen?
Jan 28 00:06:31  this is simple location based
Jan 28 00:06:43  it'll have a lot of false positives
Jan 28 00:06:44  no heuristics or calculations involved, its an easy decision
Jan 28 00:06:58  is this stroke part of any other island?
Jan 28 00:07:16  "Incompatible bootmenu used, rebooting in 15 seconds"
Jan 28 00:07:17  a later stroke might join 2 islands, but thats a different issue again
Jan 28 00:07:31  the problem is defining an "island"
Jan 28 00:07:50  an island is a collection of connected strokes
Jan 28 00:07:55  what the hell does that mean? (might be using an image and not real handwriting)
Jan 28 00:08:03  real handwriting
Jan 28 00:08:08  strokes
Jan 28 00:08:09  except all strokes can be connected
Jan 28 00:08:24  it's *continuous* handwriting
Jan 28 00:08:43  you're assuming I'll train each letter as a stream of features
Jan 28 00:08:47  ordered
Jan 28 00:08:50  and store all that
Jan 28 00:09:07  and somehow "count" the features or such
Jan 28 00:09:19  :) i misunderstood your continuous as continuous calculation, can any system cater for cursive?
Jan 28 00:09:43  yes, there are a bunch of good systems, e.g. Finereader can do fairly well
Jan 28 00:09:48  night all
Jan 28 00:10:05  and you need to look at mouse based gesture recognition - somewhere in the middle of the stream of mouse coords the user does a spiral - this has to be identified as such
Jan 28 00:10:08  lcuk: sure, "Eat up martha"
Jan 28 00:10:33  i dunno, never looked cos ive never had anything handheld that i used HWR on
Jan 28 00:10:44  lcuk: I thought about going lower level, to gfx data
Jan 28 00:11:07  benson, you ever get to play with a Newton?
Jan 28 00:11:17  Nope.
Jan 28 00:11:21  check, say, windowed FFT to detect large reduction in harmonics
Jan 28 00:11:23  S'too bad
Jan 28 00:11:26  The HWR is second to none.
Jan 28 00:11:31  between letters
Jan 28 00:11:45  but that happens with some letters as wlel
Jan 28 00:11:58  I heard the second version was good, but the forst one was bad (and got mocked).
Jan 28 00:12:04  *first
Jan 28 00:12:05  yes, but that'll be detected by the detection algorithm
Jan 28 00:12:14  subitizer will have probabilities input too
Jan 28 00:12:57  Stskeeps, the background image moved?
Jan 28 00:13:12  benson, well, the first gen ones had about 20MHz to work with
Jan 28 00:13:18  While the second had 160MHz. ;)
Jan 28 00:13:23  lcuk: the funniest part is how to detect when O vs Q has ended
Jan 28 00:13:23  I had a couple of 2100s
Jan 28 00:13:29  Amazing machines.
Jan 28 00:14:03  also a good example of what happens to old capable machines with proprietary OSes
Jan 28 00:14:33  GeneralAntilles: it's not all that great - the UI is excellent though
Jan 28 00:14:51  it cheats all the way it can (by using dictionaries)
Jan 28 00:15:32  AStorm, it took at least 10 years for somebody to come up with something as good.
Jan 28 00:15:39  lcuk: for real handwriting, I could use motion detection
Jan 28 00:15:44  I haven't used any new handhelds with HWR equal to it.
Jan 28 00:15:48  to detect ends of most letters
Jan 28 00:15:58  there's a speed pattern to each
Jan 28 00:16:00  johnx, it had a good run all the same.
Jan 28 00:16:05  It was still going strong in 2004
Jan 28 00:16:13  but I'd prefer a dead graphics solution
Jan 28 00:16:32  GeneralAntilles, and we'd be using pieces of it now instead of reinventing things...
Jan 28 00:16:33  not always astorm, just continuously run your detection over every point *backwards* and let the acceptances match up
Jan 28 00:16:49  johnx, and I'm sure Apple is just as glad we aren't. ;)
Jan 28 00:16:52  no, Winnow is additive
Jan 28 00:16:58  anything which it doesnt match isnt a letter, but if you get multiple matches for the same rough strip of points you know it was a letter
Jan 28 00:17:06  lcuk: so that way it'll get 0 probability of anything
Jan 28 00:17:13  http://s61.radikal.ru/i173/0901/86/d56214557b08.jpg
Jan 28 00:17:41  wazd, what's an incompatible bootmenu?
Jan 28 00:17:45  and it'll have problems with d vs l
Jan 28 00:17:54  you can't use any greedy algorithm there
Jan 28 00:18:21  GeneralAntilles: I'm not the one to ask :)
Jan 28 00:18:28  WTF? Build-Depends for vim includes 'libusb'. 
Jan 28 00:18:47  GeneralAntilles: "I'm just pulling the trigger" :D
Jan 28 00:18:56  lcuk: I could supplement it with a simpler decision tree though... might work
Jan 28 00:19:05  wazd, sorry, timeless has got me in critical mode against strings. :P
Jan 28 00:19:08  GeneralAntilles, one that doesn't use Stskeeps's system of *.item files & exec a linuxrc from the partition it's gonna boot from.
Jan 28 00:19:20  GeneralAntilles, one that's not compatible
Jan 28 00:19:36  johnx, is it actually a bootmenu or a bootmenu .item?
Jan 28 00:19:38  GeneralAntilles, it wrecks the fs if its not the right one
Jan 28 00:19:52  StsN800: http://s61.radikal.ru/i173/0901/86/d56214557b08.jpg
Jan 28 00:20:04  How many "bootmenu"s are there?
Jan 28 00:20:07  wazd, can you put some blood in the water?
Jan 28 00:20:09  wazd, looks good
Jan 28 00:20:11  lcuk: decision trees are excellent at detecting ends of sequences... if they don't hang
Jan 28 00:20:13  3-ish?
Jan 28 00:20:18  I wish we could cut down on them
Jan 28 00:20:24  penguinbait and Stskeeps aren't helping. :P
Jan 28 00:20:24  And the wiki should - in the release notes for 0.7 - say what to do if you get that screen
Jan 28 00:20:35  I'd need a way of continuing if a feature is skipped or unknown - to "unhang" the tree
Jan 28 00:20:41  There are three separate projects, all called "bootmenu" which all do the same thing in different ways?
Jan 28 00:20:43  WTF.
Jan 28 00:20:52  GeneralAntilles, 'my' bootmenu is fanoush bootmenu svn
Jan 28 00:21:09  StsN800, push a good package to Extras already. :P
Jan 28 00:21:42  wazd :D http://liqbase.net/d56214557b08_g.jpg
Jan 28 00:21:54  GeneralAntilles, writing fanoush for permission tommorow when im done cleaning the house
Jan 28 00:22:18  AStorm, shouldnt be any way to get a tree stuck in limbo if its stateful
Jan 28 00:22:29  there is - an unknown feature
Jan 28 00:22:45  dont worry, liqbase is full of them
Jan 28 00:22:51  johnx, artwork for you above then
Jan 28 00:22:54  it will be unable to continue
Jan 28 00:22:54  whats it gotta do
Jan 28 00:23:14  ping
Jan 28 00:23:19  can someone here test something for me?
Jan 28 00:23:22  StsN800, ok, will implement that bit tonight. going to unbreak f-b-w and go to bed
Jan 28 00:23:44  nothing's ever simple :.
Jan 28 00:24:23  johnx, alright
Jan 28 00:24:23  lcuk: the best thing about the classifier is that you should be able to teach it pairs of symbols just like single ones
Jan 28 00:24:50  any fancy thing I do is going to go badly when I've been up for more than 26 hours :)
Jan 28 00:25:02  well
Jan 28 00:25:05  guess i have to go back to osx
Jan 28 00:25:06  the problem being that the pair will probably get higher weight than single letters
Jan 28 00:25:15  just because kubuntu can't use the fucking adhoc netowrk with the wifi in the macbook
Jan 28 00:25:18  what a load of shit
Jan 28 00:25:20  http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0901/15/3e6113653236.jpg
Jan 28 00:25:33  but summing the weights of constituents should give something close to the pair... hmmm
Jan 28 00:25:43  Macer, does iwconfig show it associated or not?
Jan 28 00:25:44  wazd?
Jan 28 00:25:55  timeless: no?
Jan 28 00:25:59  will you reboot every 15s until you right out of power?
Jan 28 00:26:07  wazd: heh
Jan 28 00:26:10  johnx .. if i use iwconfig i can set the mode/essid manually
Jan 28 00:26:11  wazd, what on earth is that thing
Jan 28 00:26:21  lcuk: I should check how well it can discern 13 from B and ol from d
Jan 28 00:26:23  wazd, this widget competition
Jan 28 00:26:24  lcuk, http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/bootmen-error.jpg
Jan 28 00:26:25  won't grab an ip over adhoc tho
Jan 28 00:26:26  on its own
Jan 28 00:26:29  the n800 does it just fine
Jan 28 00:26:29  360*60 is tinyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Jan 28 00:26:37  screepy
Jan 28 00:26:39  so it is a problem with kubuntu
Jan 28 00:26:41  :D
Jan 28 00:26:45  probably the macbook atheros driver
Jan 28 00:26:52  GeneralAntilles, full of win
Jan 28 00:27:12  StsN800: well... it's... an error :)
Jan 28 00:27:13  Haha
Jan 28 00:27:15  Jaws
Jan 28 00:27:17  Love it, wazd.
Jan 28 00:27:42  "Your bootmenu has been eaten"
Jan 28 00:27:44  Macer, uhm...where would it 'grab' an IP from?
Jan 28 00:27:59  whatismyip.org
Jan 28 00:28:03  ;)
Jan 28 00:28:35  timeless, usually maemo will stay default in the bootmenu, so after 15 seconds it will kick you back to your working maemo install on NAND
Jan 28 00:28:40  missed that wazd :D
Jan 28 00:28:47  'usually'
Jan 28 00:28:57  please protect device from the 'unusual' case?
Jan 28 00:29:06  johnx: my phone
Jan 28 00:29:06  lcuk: your smiley looked like "sad mac"
Jan 28 00:29:19  timeless, this is the same as that discussion we were having about 'format' really being reparition
Jan 28 00:29:28  lcuk: that gives me an idea - put there a bomb
Jan 28 00:29:31  :P
Jan 28 00:29:33  i hate drawing with the mouse
Jan 28 00:29:34  johnx: the n800 gets the ip once it connects to the adhoc network
Jan 28 00:29:34  i'm not entirely sure 'halt' works as intended on tablet
Jan 28 00:29:35  if the user mucks around with things themselves they should know the consequence
Jan 28 00:29:47  Now user would be happy to crash his device :)
Jan 28 00:29:49  i'm guessing a dnsmasq setting on the g1
Jan 28 00:29:50  Macer, it gets it from a dhcp server, right?
Jan 28 00:30:02  ah, didn't know you were running dnsmasq
Jan 28 00:30:04  nm :)
Jan 28 00:30:07  heh
Jan 28 00:30:53  timeless, initfs will stop reboot loops
Jan 28 00:30:55  like i said.. the n800 works great doing it
Jan 28 00:31:05  i'm going to have to wipe kubuntu and put osx on this thing
Jan 28 00:31:13  just for the sake of being able to tether my phone :/
Jan 28 00:31:16  shitty
Jan 28 00:31:17  I can add blood splats btw :D
Jan 28 00:31:46  lcuk: another algorithm I had in mind involved adding detection of basic shapes, like arcs and circles
Jan 28 00:31:50  :>
Jan 28 00:31:52  just go with the cracked screen and be done ;)_
Jan 28 00:32:00  edrex: http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0901/15/3e6113653236.jpg
Jan 28 00:32:01  lcuk: heh
Jan 28 00:32:07  "Guru Meditation"
Jan 28 00:32:25  astorm :) build your detection around primatives
Jan 28 00:32:28  Stskeeps:  eh?
Jan 28 00:32:38  does Mer run from MMC with bootmenu on 770? I'd like to make Mer/770Install on wiki
Jan 28 00:33:13  lcuk: the detector can use as many different feature kinds as you throw at it
Jan 28 00:33:24  assuming the converters don't choke
Jan 28 00:33:29  edrex, yes, bootmenu.deb ought to work - 0.7 has proper 770 support too
Jan 28 00:34:03  wazd: lovely jaws ;P
Jan 28 00:34:07  make it sharper though
Jan 28 00:34:13  edrex, r2d2rogers does the primary work on 770
Jan 28 00:34:24  StsN800: oh, can I build an early image of 0.7?
Jan 28 00:34:24  so for any q's..
Jan 28 00:34:32  AStorm: Sharper would be too offensive :)
Jan 28 00:34:49  wazd: and use an upturned drowning boat as an icon ;P
Jan 28 00:34:55  say, Titanic
Jan 28 00:35:02  edrex, lemme just upload one
Jan 28 00:35:04  AStorm, generic structured signal detection is useful in many fields.
Jan 28 00:35:22  yeah
Jan 28 00:35:22  :D failboat
Jan 28 00:36:21  http://www.forwardedtome.com/images/fail/ftm_failboat.jpg
Jan 28 00:36:33  lcuk: long story short - this Winnow algorithm is an improved perceptron
Jan 28 00:37:14  StsN800: thanks!
Jan 28 00:37:45  it can use any data as input
Jan 28 00:37:58  only that datatype must be hashable
Jan 28 00:38:33  how do I get the rootfs onto an sd, from a host pc?
Jan 28 00:38:35  the problem is not detector, but the chain of converters
Jan 28 00:38:55  edrex, http://stskeeps.subnetmasj
Jan 28 00:39:12  I had an algorithm to straighten lines and detect arcs too
Jan 28 00:39:17  edrex, http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-770-image-snap4.tar.gz
Jan 28 00:39:20  though these were heavy on heuristics
Jan 28 00:39:52  (part of that map vectorizing stuff I could've done instead ;P )
Jan 28 00:39:56  edrex, kernel modules are for 2008he i think
Jan 28 00:42:19  StsN800: is it 2.6.28? i'm not sure I understand, compiled modules from 2.6.28?
Jan 28 00:42:25  err 2008he
Jan 28 00:42:44  2.6.16.26 i think
Jan 28 00:42:55  gargh
Jan 28 00:43:13  hi all
Jan 28 00:43:18  we bundle framebuffer modules and such so
Jan 28 00:43:45  johnx, going insane?
Jan 28 00:44:01  StsN800, yeah, starting to get fuzzy and make dumb mistakes :/
Jan 28 00:44:04  sharper: 2008he i think
Jan 28 00:44:04  * Gary (n=Gary@freenode/staff/colchester-lug.gary) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
Jan 28 00:44:04  * ian_at_synth (n=escher@adsl-75-1
Jan 28 00:44:28  whatthehell
Jan 28 00:44:30  http://s43.radikal.ru/i102/0901/3d/5d413bc7a106.jpg
Jan 28 00:45:35  hehe. is that image legal to remix?
Jan 28 00:46:03  its from his own album
Jan 28 00:46:06  gnite lads
Jan 28 00:46:37  cya
Jan 28 00:46:53  ok I can't wait to try this, really have no idea how to use it :)
Jan 28 00:47:11  Hi, ian_at_synth.
Jan 28 00:47:22  i see y'all are working on kexec, that's to get rid of need for initfs, right?
Jan 28 00:47:54  edrex, prod r2d2rogers for details - you need swap partition for sure so
Jan 28 00:48:06  StsN800: I think the author should be thankful to be mentioned in Mer :D
Jan 28 00:48:46 * edrex prods r2d2rogers.. carefully
Jan 28 00:49:06  edrex, more like grub like system where we can boot different kernels
Jan 28 00:49:32  StsN800: yes, rad. on top of nolo?
Jan 28 00:49:59  and between eachother. on top of a minimal kernel
Jan 28 00:50:17  nolo we cant touch so
Jan 28 00:51:29  sounds great! for now though, i'm not sure how to use this. Oh, were you saying I should have the 2008he initfs flashed?
Jan 28 00:52:03  ok, I get it
Jan 28 00:52:08  stsN800: i saw on the Mer sprint 0.7 page you were confused by our themes' dependency on the maemo4-theme-fixes package. you can remove the dependency if you're including them in Mer. (maemo4-theme-fixes contains workarounds for bugs in the proprietary search applet, and the MicroB browser, so it wouldn't do anything in Mer anyway)
Jan 28 00:52:37  ian_at_synth, alright, ta
Jan 28 00:54:49  edrex, quick guide, make mmc with p1 linux partition, p2 swap
Jan 28 00:55:01  stsn800 what browser does mer use, and have you tested it with any of our new themes? many browser's have a tendency to not handle themes with non-white bg colors very well.
Jan 28 00:55:09  mkfs.ext3 first one, mkswap second
Jan 28 00:55:35  ian_at_synth, none specific atm
Jan 28 00:56:20  edrex, then get tar.gz, tar pzxvf it on p1 mounted
Jan 28 00:56:41  get gnutar for this
Jan 28 00:57:37  edrex, install bootmenu.deb from page, follow instructions on page.
Jan 28 01:01:16  then make a /etc/bootmenu.d/mer.item similar to http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22705&page=2 (my post) with ITEM_LINUXRC=linuxrc instead and mmcblk0p1 instead
Jan 28 01:01:30  and refresh_bootmenu.d :)
Jan 28 01:02:53  johnx, scheduling imagegen in 2 hours, am off to bed
Jan 28 01:03:02  StsN800, ok, good plan
Jan 28 01:03:20  'night StsN800
Jan 28 01:05:52  StsN800: thanks I was going to do the first several steps, then be stuck at the bootmenu. gnight!
Jan 28 01:12:51  qwerty12_N800, how big are the l10n packages for XChat in total?
Jan 28 01:14:07  GeneralAntilles, no idea. I would make them one package but then the separate packages for the old version would still be there.
Jan 28 01:14:30  Have X-Fade nuke 'em?
Jan 28 01:15:05  Would you consider the extras-devel version safe to promote?
Jan 28 01:15:23  Yeah
Jan 28 01:16:38  Cool, I can make the locales one separate package sometime and promote and then get X-Fade to delete the separate packages when I have done so.
Jan 28 01:16:51  I'd just merge it, honestly.
Jan 28 01:16:56  What's it, about 50KB a package?
Jan 28 01:17:03  It's not all that big when all's said and done
Jan 28 01:17:09  and compression works really well on text. ;)
Jan 28 01:17:35  I do wish it had some more radical Hildonizing, though. ;)
Jan 28 01:17:41  Yeah, really not a lot of space. For the mer repo, I just made it one separate package.
Jan 28 01:17:43  I installed DopeWars the other day
Jan 28 01:17:46  Practically unusable.
Jan 28 01:18:05  That is the one problem with a platform that's largely compatible with desktop Linux
Jan 28 01:18:11  Most people wont bother to put in the effort. :\
Jan 28 01:18:12  Eurgh, there is a reason I never unleashed it on extras...
Jan 28 01:18:26  It's not like we lack screen space
Jan 28 01:18:29  You just gotta use it wisely.
Jan 28 01:18:43  hello
Jan 28 01:18:53  I would have hildonized that properly but it all fucks up when I include hildon headers...
Jan 28 01:19:01  Bleh
Jan 28 01:19:13  It'd be pretty fun as an SDL game, actually.
Jan 28 01:19:25  anyone known the official site of AMD in Taiwan ?
Jan 28 01:20:10  http://www.amdtaiwan.com.tw/
Jan 28 01:20:32  thanks a lot
Jan 28 01:21:15  I think it's time I browse YTMND for a bit.
Jan 28 01:22:18  i don't see the page
Jan 28 01:22:42  a page totally white
Jan 28 01:23:14  Hit it from the international link on their US homepage
Jan 28 01:24:10  yes but the cpu are realized in taiwan
Jan 28 01:25:30  i found this article
Jan 28 01:25:46  johnx, patch to make f-b-w arch indep:http://pastebin.com/d2a46b6d5. on builder, just use build-x86 to save time
Jan 28 01:26:06  qwerty12_N800, thanks...tomorrow :)
Jan 28 01:26:21  AMD wants to make small laptops cheaper
Jan 28 01:26:36  johnx, Hehe, tired of hacking on it? :)
Jan 28 01:26:45  qwerty12_N800, just tired
Jan 28 01:26:47  of Jan 06 2009
Jan 28 01:26:53  can't really think anymore
Jan 28 01:26:59  johnx, ah :(
Jan 28 01:28:48  on http://computingsa.co.za/article.aspx?id=913288
Jan 28 01:30:57  please, we must invite AMD to realize the small laptop 'Yukon'
Jan 28 01:31:25  totally free hardware, free bios
Jan 28 01:32:01  and with GNU/linux until windows vista
Jan 28 01:55:17  gah! I'm so freaking dumb
Jan 28 01:57:16  We know. :P
Jan 28 01:58:01  on the one hand I know it's because I'm tired, but on the other hand I could have been asleep hours ago if I'd figured it out then
Jan 28 01:59:41  Tear 0.3
Jan 28 01:59:44  Dashboard is interesting
Jan 28 01:59:53  oooh, with source?
Jan 28 01:59:56  The wisdom of having it in about:blank is suspect
Jan 28 01:59:59  http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=260336#post260336
Jan 28 02:00:09  heh :)
Jan 28 02:00:54  The web inspector is funny.
Jan 28 02:00:56  OS X on Maemo
Jan 28 02:01:01  s/OS X/Aqua/
Jan 28 02:01:02  GeneralAntilles meant: Aqua on Maemo
Jan 28 02:01:28  qwerty12_N800, can you get him to get it in Extras?
Jan 28 02:02:30  GeneralAntilles, I think he wanted to do so anyway but I dunno how far he got with that (if at all) :/
Jan 28 02:06:44  why the name "Tear"? My pun detector is going
Jan 28 02:07:02  edrex, except the icon is a tear O_o;
Jan 28 02:07:14  looks nice.. fast I hope
Jan 28 02:07:54  is bundyo crying web browsers?
Jan 28 02:08:08  cats don't cry
Jan 28 02:08:39  that's science
Jan 28 02:10:35  seriously though it looks amazing. Has anyone experimented with multifinger gestures on these digitizers?
Jan 28 02:11:22  i saw a video of multifinger gestures on g1, which probably has a similar digitizer, but it seemed a bit wanky
Jan 28 02:11:27  edrex, lcuk has been playing with it...but it's not a real multitouch capable screen
Jan 28 02:11:32  totally different
Jan 28 02:11:34  right
Jan 28 02:11:36  capacitive vs resisitve
Jan 28 02:13:16  ah, g1 is capacitive
Jan 28 02:14:17  Who realized the deblet distritution ?
Jan 28 02:14:38  is interesting
Jan 28 02:14:48  i'd like to play with the hardware readouts with http://kst.kde.org/. I have a resistive laptop (fujitsu)
Jan 28 02:15:04  and i think to try on nokia 770
Jan 28 02:15:18  would be cool to see if some innovative gestures are possible with this old hardware
Jan 28 02:15:38  if it is well supported
Jan 28 02:15:57  Pavlz, it's not 'well supported' on any hardware. it's not a finished distribution
Jan 28 02:16:26  Pavlz: it is superseded by Mer (johnx: yes, no further deblet work?)
Jan 28 02:16:38  johnx: you got nx running on the tablet?
Jan 28 02:16:47  it is a testing? an unstable ?
Jan 28 02:17:00  edrex, the door is always open for someone else to take it up
Jan 28 02:17:13  Pavlz, experimental
Jan 28 02:17:39  pupnik_, didn't try today. been hacking stubborn bash scripts >_<
Jan 28 02:17:48  Pavlz: I'm about to test Mer on 770 (http://eric.shared.dre.am/Nokia770). Waiting for my housemate to get home so I can retrieve my MMC reader
Jan 28 02:17:56  but the softwares there are
Jan 28 02:18:27  Pavlz: will update that link with detailed instructions if everything goes well
Jan 28 02:18:28  it's debian unstable. it mostly works on the n800 but has poor powersavings. it needs some work on the 770
Jan 28 02:18:51  s/it's/deblet is/
Jan 28 02:18:52  johnx meant: deblet is debian unstable. it mostly works on the n800 but has poor powersavings. it needs some work on the 770
Jan 28 02:19:12  i can wait
Jan 28 02:19:13  infobot: are you a bot?
Jan 28 02:19:32  ~infobot
Jan 28 02:19:33  infobot is, like, me. I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (http://www.infobot.org/), or updated sources at http://infobot.sf.net/, or a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to, or on fire, or awesome.
Jan 28 02:20:01  infobot: you're on fire!
Jan 28 02:20:37  infobot is on fire
Jan 28 02:21:03  ~burn infobot
Jan 28 02:21:04 * infobot pours gasoline all over infobot, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
Jan 28 02:21:08  :)
Jan 28 02:21:46  mmm...gasoline flavored marshmallows
Jan 28 02:22:30  mer it is to compile right ?
Jan 28 02:22:45  Pavlz, I don't understand
Jan 28 02:23:25  i must to download the file of 123 Mb
Jan 28 02:23:37  and to use gcc ?
Jan 28 02:23:51  you don't need to compile it
Jan 28 02:24:09  :-(
Jan 28 02:24:19  you want to compile it?
Jan 28 02:24:27  i was interested
Jan 28 02:25:03  to compile and to mount on my pen drive from 1 gb
Jan 28 02:25:04  you can compile it if you want. install the mer sdk and compile the whole thing :)
Jan 28 02:25:12  for x86
Jan 28 02:25:24  ah, there's an x86 version compiled already
Jan 28 02:25:29  ~mer
Jan 28 02:25:30  well, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
Jan 28 02:25:40  well
Jan 28 02:26:21  then i must only to mount on the pen usb
Jan 28 02:26:55  you need to do a little more, but that's the general idea
Jan 28 02:27:00  to have an operating system
Jan 28 02:28:03  pc actually have a problem
Jan 28 02:28:19  don't boot from usb
Jan 28 02:28:35  that could make things difficult
Jan 28 02:29:27  could be interesting to insert a pen usb with the operating system
Jan 28 02:30:03  on a computer where there is not any operating system
Jan 28 02:30:16  alright, heading to sleep
Jan 28 02:30:21  ~blow up infobot
Jan 28 02:30:22 * infobot blows up infobot
Jan 28 02:30:25  lol
Jan 28 02:30:37  XD
Jan 28 02:31:14  Stskeeps, I think first-boot-wizard should work. if it doesn't I'll fix it tonight
Jan 28 02:31:22  'night all
Jan 28 02:31:34  g'night johnx
Jan 28 02:31:36  night johnx
Jan 28 02:33:15  so you see your system on your computer and when you poweroff the pc you are free to leave the pen usb with the os or remove if you finished to work, so there are not problems of security why on the computer there is not any operating system
Jan 28 02:34:22  i go to sleep
Jan 28 02:34:29  bye bye
Jan 28 02:37:00  edrex: howdt
Jan 28 02:37:03  edrex: howdy
Jan 28 02:37:06  ~infobot attack qwerty12_N800
Jan 28 02:37:07 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing qwerty12_N800
Jan 28 02:37:13  lol
Jan 28 02:37:22  ~nuke FireFox
Jan 28 02:37:23 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at FireFox ... B☢☢M!
Jan 28 02:37:31  :P
Jan 28 02:37:41  ~nuke qwerty12_N800
Jan 28 02:37:42 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at qwerty12_N800 ... B☢☢M!
Jan 28 02:38:09  hi r2d2rogers, I'm ready to test Mer 0.7pre, but have to wait for my roommate so I can retrieve my MMC reader
Jan 28 02:38:31  any progress on the kernel mod for wifi?
Jan 28 02:38:59  or just anything I should know in general going in?
Jan 28 02:39:34  the os2008he initfs should be flashed, ya?
Jan 28 02:40:10  http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer there is currently no text in this page you can search for this page title in other pages or edit this page
Jan 28 02:41:34  Pavlz:  your web browser is funny
Jan 28 02:41:53  edrex: cool
Jan 28 02:41:58  wanna use the imager?
Jan 28 02:42:14  let me check where I have the instructions I followed last time..
Jan 28 02:42:41  edrex: yes starting at OS2008he with ability the become root
Jan 28 02:43:04  well Stskeeps sent me an image at 4:30
Jan 28 02:43:15  nice
Jan 28 02:43:21   so lots easier
Jan 28 02:43:22  i solved the problem searching in the box search
Jan 28 02:43:35  this is opera
Jan 28 02:43:42  edrex: install the bootmenu deb and you're almost done
Jan 28 02:43:54  that mounted nokia
Jan 28 02:44:40  has not sense to have a non free software browser
Jan 28 02:45:06  when is available GNU/IceCat
Jan 28 02:45:48  and i am worring with all the people for this
Jan 28 02:46:06  stupid use of flash
Jan 28 02:47:10  a web site must be visited from all and not with the last svga
Jan 28 02:48:34  and the respect for all those people who desire
Jan 28 02:49:00  to use devices with little lcd
Jan 28 02:49:18  What non-free browser?
Jan 28 02:55:13  opera is not free software it is not GNU General Public License
Jan 28 02:55:16  an example of web site that is possible to see with a nokia 770 is http://www.gnu-linux.it
Jan 28 02:55:24  no flash, only one picture, fast and many things in english
Jan 28 02:57:51  i invite to see http://www.gnu-linux.it/18/Fox_Board.html
Jan 28 02:58:39  if you are using a nokia 770 you need to put to full screen
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 28 02:59:57 2009