**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 03 02:59:57 2009 Feb 03 03:02:11 I think, even not for CJK, just for english, there still could be the same question with say word completion or something else. can one VKB work for different dictionary engine backend? Feb 03 03:24:23 RaymondL, my recommendation is to take it to maemo-developers. https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers Feb 03 03:24:44 There are more Nokians there. Feb 03 03:25:26 GeneralAntilles: OK. Got it :) Feb 03 03:33:02 * b-man has finally compiled/modified/uploaded allmost all of the base packages from the mer and deblet repo for the ubuntu N8x0 repository - woho!! Feb 03 03:34:28 * b-man runs apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade to try out the newly compiled packages Feb 03 04:12:38 Hello Feb 03 04:28:13 is it possible to record a video using the internal camera, in my case on an n800? Feb 03 04:31:46 or is the video conferencing a closed source feature, or parts at least, and so the best that can be obtained at this point are photos via this camera? Feb 03 04:32:10 or something entirely different to my desires or musings? Feb 03 04:36:35 v4l2 Feb 03 04:36:39 mplayer should be able to do it Feb 03 04:36:44 or hook into GStreamer directly Feb 03 04:37:00 There are a number of guides if you do a little googling. Feb 03 04:37:15 GeneralAntilles: oh this is good, thanks, sometimes it's nicer to take a video journal than writing something down Feb 03 04:38:19 GeneralAntilles: I was getting bump internettablettalk threads, so now with the right keywords I think I'll be fine: v4l2 gstreamer etc. Feb 03 04:39:18 yes, http://www.mdamt.net/node/174 etc. Feb 03 04:39:23 thank you Feb 03 04:41:00 and there are all sorts of youtube evidence examples :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_aUpelgOsM Feb 03 04:57:24 although the specifics are a bit trying Feb 03 05:19:41 hi, everybody Feb 03 05:20:20 who can explain why my gentoo doesn't get turned off after 4 minutes as bootmenu does? Feb 03 05:21:14 i didn't do anything with dsme, wd or whatever Feb 03 05:29:02 slonopotamus_: how is gentoo working on your nit? Feb 03 05:31:00 yigal, that's a long story... i'm porting it :) yesterday i had great progress, i managed to boot into it directly. see http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0 for info. boot steps will be added soon. Feb 03 05:31:48 slonopotamus_: awesome Feb 03 05:32:11 yigal, they call it 'insane' :) Feb 03 05:33:16 if anyone wrote me anything about wd, please repeat, i got disconnected Feb 03 05:43:06 hello I'm attempting to video tape myself using the internal video camera on the n800 using the gstreamer/v4l shell script provided in this blog http://www.mdamt.net/comment/reply/174, but am getting many errors, would someone try the script and tell me if they are succesful, pretty please :) Feb 03 06:08:20 ah, I had to change the height,width, and framerate :) now it looks good Feb 03 06:28:16 slonopotamus: you're here! Feb 03 06:28:28 hehe Feb 03 06:28:34 Man 11 hr time diff will kill us Feb 03 06:28:41 nope, YOU are here Feb 03 06:28:57 i booted yesterday Feb 03 06:29:08 ! that's awesome Feb 03 06:29:12 writing docs on this now Feb 03 06:29:15 Any special techniques? Feb 03 06:29:17 ok Feb 03 06:29:20 will read. Feb 03 06:29:51 I switched my main server over to a 64bit machine, it kinda stole all my free time in the last 2 weeks. Feb 03 06:30:50 nope. deblet/mer bootmenu + minor tweaks inside gentoo Feb 03 06:30:52 stock kernel Feb 03 06:30:57 no x, no wifi, no bt but hey, it boots and waits for password :) n800 here, can't do anything Feb 03 06:31:10 very impressive, still Feb 03 06:31:38 I do love the linux-omap kernel for it's fixups, but I understand you trying to stay with stock. Feb 03 06:31:59 mer guys are planning to play with muru kernel Feb 03 06:31:59 What's native language for you? Feb 03 06:32:06 russian Feb 03 06:32:28 Damn. I'm right out. I don't speak anything with a cyrillic alphabet. Feb 03 06:32:56 well, i don't use cyrillic here :) Feb 03 06:32:57 I'm lucky your english is excellent. Don't know anybody else interested in gentoo 8x0 Feb 03 06:33:42 far from excellent :) but many hours in irc do the thing Feb 03 06:35:03 Man, I've got to go to bed. Past midnight, here, but I'll be reading your docs in the morning. Feb 03 06:35:24 they're not ready yet Feb 03 06:35:29 i'll email you Feb 03 06:35:40 Deal. Have a good one. Feb 03 06:37:31 sleep well :) Feb 03 06:42:24 moo all Feb 03 06:46:46 moo Feb 03 06:54:43 hellooo Feb 03 06:55:42 morning slonopotamus Feb 03 06:59:31 Stskeeps, explain me, why my gentoo doesn't get shutdown after 4 minutes as bootmenu does. Feb 03 07:00:26 possibly dsmetool --root-mounted Feb 03 07:01:15 yes, that was called by linuxrc Feb 03 07:01:42 but what about precious wd that must be kicked each N seconds? why doesn't it turn it off? Feb 03 07:01:58 (by _your_ linuxrc :) ) Feb 03 07:02:13 sTs, wanna try my debs? Feb 03 07:04:21 timelE61i: sure, but may queue them based on my workloadd today Feb 03 07:04:40 slonopotamus: cos dsme is running Feb 03 07:06:05 Stskeeps, and that's it? i thought i'll need to write some daemon that'll echo magic numbers into watchdog Feb 03 07:06:22 http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0#step_3_boot_device_directly_into_gentoo Feb 03 07:07:14 Stskeeps, it would be great if you fixed FBMODE support in bootmenu.conf :) you'll find a patch on my gentoo page Feb 03 07:16:22 right, so Feb 03 07:16:30 who wants to be my guinea pig? Feb 03 07:17:43 http://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo_Extras_repository_proposal Feb 03 07:17:52 why does that call itself a draft? Feb 03 07:18:06 hehe Feb 03 07:18:10 one more repository? Feb 03 07:18:36 or it is talking about extras? Feb 03 07:18:46 extras Feb 03 07:18:54 it's witten from before it happened Feb 03 07:18:58 but it's a wiki Feb 03 07:19:00 then it's outdated Feb 03 07:19:07 xxx please fix it :) Feb 03 07:19:38 * timeless wonders where extras-devel is Feb 03 07:20:05 timeless, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ ? Feb 03 07:20:15 err, rather 'how do i push to it' Feb 03 07:20:54 timeless, http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Feb 03 07:43:38 poor server has to be rebooted Feb 03 07:46:07 slonopotamus: yeah but fbmode modules take up space :P Feb 03 07:46:31 right, beagleboard day Feb 03 07:52:13 morning Feb 03 07:52:39 morning Feb 03 07:54:49 morn Feb 03 07:55:37 Stskeeps: you are also here :) Feb 03 07:56:01 i'm everywhere Feb 03 07:56:02 :P Feb 03 07:56:17 except in my bed right now Feb 03 07:56:17 :P Feb 03 07:56:22 * timeless sighs Feb 03 07:56:25 where's a native english speaker when i need one? :) Feb 03 07:56:47 timeless: playing in the snow probably, if you mean en-GB Feb 03 07:57:33 btw, what langugage is "morn" ? Feb 03 07:57:49 it's some broken form of en-GB Feb 03 07:57:54 not sure precisely which Feb 03 07:57:57 ScriptRipper: shorthand for morning, but danish would do it too :P Feb 03 07:57:58 a short for "morning" Feb 03 07:58:04 mhm Feb 03 07:58:06 i think it should be written 'morn or morn' Feb 03 07:58:33 sounds like "moin", which is northern germany Feb 03 07:58:45 or southern denmark Feb 03 07:58:53 ah... Feb 03 07:59:14 Stskeeps: so you are from denmark? Feb 03 07:59:17 yup Feb 03 07:59:26 me from germany... Feb 03 07:59:52 * Stskeeps tries to get jaunty running on his beagleboard Feb 03 08:00:04 Stskeeps: still? Feb 03 08:00:18 works perfect here Feb 03 08:00:33 ScriptRipper: well, today is the first time i actually do it :) Feb 03 08:00:38 i had mojo going Feb 03 08:00:43 aha. Feb 03 08:00:50 which kernel package are you using? Feb 03 08:01:12 I had installed ubuntu 8.04/mojo and also the jaunty prerelease. Feb 03 08:01:19 and in fact angstrom Feb 03 08:01:25 Stskeeps, i'm not suggesting adding fb modules. just fixing bootmenu.conf Feb 03 08:01:47 ah Feb 03 08:02:02 did you hear about my collegue, who managaged to get maemo sdk into our buildsystem? Feb 03 08:02:19 ScriptRipper: yeah, it sounds quite interesting, is it more sane than scratchbox? ;) Feb 03 08:03:02 is seems that we do not at least suffer from any QEMU emulator errors yet. Feb 03 08:03:29 Stskeeps, there is fbmode handling in bootmenu.sh (it calls fb_update_mode when ITEM_FBMODE is set) but bootmenu.conf doesn't properly use ITEM_FBMODE from /etc/bootmenu.d items Feb 03 08:03:29 but it took my quite a lot of work with QEMU people to achieve this Feb 03 08:03:31 yeah, if it is with the eabi patches and such it borders on sane Feb 03 08:03:43 slonopotamus: ah - feel free to submit a patch :) Feb 03 08:04:30 we can handle armv4t (OABI), armv5el (EABI, w/o vfp) and up to armv7el (EABI, w/o vfp) working correctly. Feb 03 08:04:55 Stskeeps, http://rafb.net/p/fRRn9k97.html Feb 03 08:05:17 i have also tested this with all available linux distros for arm i could grab.... Feb 03 08:05:31 including maemo..... Feb 03 08:05:31 ScriptRipper: *nod* sounds very interesting.. is it "just" a webservice or is it possible to "take home"? Feb 03 08:05:36 * timeless is confused Feb 03 08:05:48 do i need to fill in https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php?target=invitation_request in order to upload to extras? Feb 03 08:05:58 timeless: correct, then x-fade approves Feb 03 08:05:59 Stskeeps: you mean OBS? Feb 03 08:06:03 ScriptRipper: yeah Feb 03 08:06:33 OBS is a public service with a webui (but also command line) and the code itself is Opensource Feb 03 08:06:36 alright Feb 03 08:07:04 we also provide prepackaged pkgs to install on the linux distro of your whish Feb 03 08:07:17 .deb as well as .rpm based. Feb 03 08:07:17 s/whish/choice/ Feb 03 08:07:41 (note the original word was both misspelled and less than ideal) Feb 03 08:07:43 timeless: correct, did not have my coffee yet Feb 03 08:09:02 Stskeeps, or you want me to post it to garage tracker? Feb 03 08:09:27 Mer bugs go to bugs.maemo.org Feb 03 08:09:32 garage tracker is dead Feb 03 08:09:39 * timeless goes to find a password Feb 03 08:09:40 timeless: not a mer bug in this case :) Feb 03 08:09:45 slonopotamus: nah, i'll just patch it Feb 03 08:09:46 sec Feb 03 08:10:01 sts: what's teh bug in? Feb 03 08:10:04 s/teh/the/ Feb 03 08:10:04 timeless meant: sts: what's the bug in? Feb 03 08:10:41 timeless, bootmenu Feb 03 08:11:08 * timeless goes to create a component for http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/load-applet/ Feb 03 08:11:27 stskeeps: i can create a thing for http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/bootmenu/ too Feb 03 08:12:03 timeless: mm, bootmenu is fanoush's project really, not in a position to make any kind of decisions in it Feb 03 08:16:24 * Stskeeps notes that booted flawlessly Feb 03 08:17:55 Stskeeps, what booted flaslessly? Feb 03 08:18:04 Stskeeps, with patch you mean? Feb 03 08:18:07 slonopotamus: mer on beagle Feb 03 08:18:11 Stskeeps, oh Feb 03 08:22:02 added to svn Feb 03 08:22:07 thx Feb 03 08:26:11 stskeeps: where do bugs in Network manager go? Feb 03 08:26:14 Mer? Feb 03 08:29:23 * timeless frowns Feb 03 08:30:26 timeless: I've sent you an invitation again.. Feb 03 08:30:33 again? Feb 03 08:30:38 timeless, btw, dunno if you noticed but if you press the refresh button in rss reader; it shows the msgid instead of text Feb 03 08:30:58 qwerty12: i might have fixed that Feb 03 08:31:16 timeless: ubuntu i think :P but cx3110x is wonky Feb 03 08:32:44 eep Feb 03 08:32:51 Unable to install FindMine [ Close ] Feb 03 08:33:44 can someone w/ Mer 0.7 try installing findmine? Feb 03 08:33:57 what on earth is findmine? :P Feb 03 08:34:09 A version of Minesweeper? Feb 03 08:34:09 minesweeper game? Feb 03 08:34:18 and give me a log of what HAM says (red pill mode?) Feb 03 08:34:48 (tools->log i think) Feb 03 08:34:56 the log is useless Feb 03 08:35:00 it says configure failed Feb 03 08:35:13 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 Feb 03 08:35:50 all right. morning. Feb 03 08:36:16 morning RST38h Feb 03 08:36:17 morning. Feb 03 08:36:30 hey all Feb 03 08:36:56 okay, without very little modification of Mer image: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/merbeagle.JPG Feb 03 08:37:06 (crappy picture) Feb 03 08:37:28 yep Feb 03 08:37:38 http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/mer.ico fwiw :) Feb 03 08:37:42 wanna crappy picture of gentoo on n800? :) Feb 03 08:37:50 slonopotamus: sure :P Feb 03 08:37:55 timeless: hehe, cute Feb 03 08:38:10 hey, only 8h to build gcc ;P Feb 03 08:38:12 sts: there are 3 icons in it Feb 03 08:38:58 sts: my guess is maemo-select-menu-location is misbehaving Feb 03 08:40:01 Stskeeps: cool Feb 03 08:40:56 timeless: yes, i was noticing the same yesterday Feb 03 08:41:10 Jaffa: now add clutter on top and we have harmattan.. ;P Feb 03 08:41:13 timeless: http://jaiku.com/channel/mer/presence/52779242 (what Stskeeps said yesterday) Feb 03 08:41:28 Stskeeps: :) Feb 03 08:41:31 Incidentally, maemo-select-menu-location from Mer works when run via a chroot from Maemo... Feb 03 08:41:44 Anyone straced it yet? Feb 03 08:41:54 qwerty12: maybe dbus permissions or something Feb 03 08:42:11 eww, i need a gpg key too? Feb 03 08:42:36 timeless: no, see http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Feb 03 08:42:40 No GPG key needed Feb 03 08:42:52 jaffa: https://garage.maemo.org/my/contrib.php is complaining Feb 03 08:42:54 timeless: Well technically not anymore, but we need to update the garage page.. Feb 03 08:42:57 Error: please copy your public PGP or GPG key in the "Your public GPG or PGP key" field below Feb 03 08:43:10 timeless: type some crap and pester X-Fade about poor UIs ;-) Feb 03 08:43:19 * Jaffa dunnos if either of those will work Feb 03 08:43:32 Jaffa: don't think so. Feb 03 08:43:36 Error: the key you provided is not a valid PGP or GPG public key Feb 03 08:43:41 Gah Feb 03 08:44:27 timeless: I can bypass that for you, if you want.. Feb 03 08:45:01 that'd be nice Feb 03 08:45:09 this is getting very painful :) Feb 03 08:45:18 i mean, i can create products in bugzilla faster Feb 03 08:45:19 rzr_: i've put up 770 instructions btw :) Feb 03 08:45:21 timeless: https://garage.maemo.org/account/index2.php Feb 03 08:45:27 timeless: Set your ssh key there.. Feb 03 08:48:07 mornin' Feb 03 08:48:14 done Feb 03 08:48:40 is there a way with plain standard maemo to stream video/sound with the N810? somehow the skype which came along doesnt support the cam Feb 03 08:48:42 timeless: Ok, that should be all.. Feb 03 08:48:44 AStorm, first they laugh at you... :) Feb 03 08:49:26 yeah, except for actually pushing something Feb 03 08:49:49 slonopotamus: :) Feb 03 08:49:49 * timeless sighs Feb 03 08:49:59 i remember a video on youtube where someone demonstrates videochat Feb 03 08:50:03 slonopotamus: I'd actually rather build it on a faster machine Feb 03 08:50:11 qwerty: did you try updating? Feb 03 08:50:25 timeless, there's an update? Feb 03 08:50:27 AStorm, how often do you build gcc? Feb 03 08:50:34 i updated today Feb 03 08:50:39 there are even some new pacakges Feb 03 08:50:47 oh, the microb package is dead Feb 03 08:50:51 Lemme replace Mer 0.6 first with 0.7 :) Feb 03 08:50:52 since it never was going to have content Feb 03 08:50:55 ok Feb 03 08:50:55 slonopotamus: not too often Feb 03 08:51:00 x29a: Gizmo supports video chat.. Feb 03 08:51:02 but I do sometimes build firefox Feb 03 08:51:03 oh, this should install into mer too :) Feb 03 08:51:10 AStorm, it build while i was asleep. i didn't care if it was 2 or 8 hours because i sleep 10 :) Feb 03 08:51:12 you still have to hack the start script to use it Feb 03 08:51:16 but it's only one line :) Feb 03 08:51:18 X-Fade: i guess i need an account and stuff for that Feb 03 08:51:24 * timeless frowns Feb 03 08:51:25 s/build/built/ Feb 03 08:51:25 slonopotamus meant: AStorm, it built while i was asleep. i didn't care if it was 2 or 8 hours because i sleep 10 :) Feb 03 08:51:28 timeless, Ooh, great, I could do with strings :) Feb 03 08:51:30 who owns that start script? Feb 03 08:51:34 x29a: Yep. Feb 03 08:51:39 infobot: you're an annoying little git Feb 03 08:51:41 meh Feb 03 08:51:42 s/infobot// Feb 03 08:51:50 x29a: Or you can use gstreamer from the command line, but that is a bit hardcore.. Feb 03 08:52:02 X-Fade: oh, sounds ok Feb 03 08:52:03 sts: is /usr/bin/start-hildon yours? Feb 03 08:52:20 timeless: mostly johnx's Feb 03 08:52:22 X-Fade: whats the camdevice? Feb 03 08:52:22 x29a: The camera is just a V4L2 device.. Feb 03 08:52:26 ah great Feb 03 08:52:29 johnx: ping Feb 03 08:52:46 timeless: it's on https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-env Feb 03 08:52:51 x29a: Which is pretty easy to access in code or through gstreamer. Feb 03 08:53:06 sts: if i gave you a patch could you play w/ it? Feb 03 08:53:14 timeless: possibly Feb 03 08:53:17 X-Fade: i will try that, too bad the talk is in 17min already, gotta rush Feb 03 08:53:20 depends on my work load really Feb 03 08:54:14 x29a: A little bit more info here: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/manuals/4-0-x/how_to_use_camera_api/ Feb 03 08:55:46 * RST38h wonders if there will be a lighter camera API Feb 03 08:56:09 RST38h: I think so. As part of the multimedia framework perhaps? Feb 03 08:56:44 X-Fade: Ah, abandon all hope Feb 03 08:57:13 X-Fade: Quim has shown a draft for the multimedia framework API a while ago - it is basically an API for writing plugins for the media player Feb 03 08:57:30 * timeless reboots mer Feb 03 08:57:35 sts: ok, patch written Feb 03 08:57:57 RST38h: Well, mafw is now released in the pre-alpha, so you could check the code :) Feb 03 08:58:02 btw, does mer actually support multiple users? Feb 03 08:58:14 i.e. is there some way for me to "log into the desktop" and "log out"? Feb 03 08:58:15 X-Fade: In other words, it is even more high level and does not have to do with actual audio/video hw Feb 03 08:58:21 timeless: so far we haven't restricted it, but there's an autologin thing in auto-startx Feb 03 08:58:38 sts: it'd help this specific thing quite a bit Feb 03 08:58:39 uh oh Feb 03 08:58:43 i think i broke my computer Feb 03 08:58:50 all i have is a black screen Feb 03 08:58:59 oh, no, it's just slow :) Feb 03 08:59:05 X-Fade: Already checked the document, there is nothing there that would make me look at the code Feb 03 08:59:37 RST38h: But I don't think the camera api has been added to the alpha yet. Feb 03 08:59:42 * RST38h kinda hoped for a simple open/read/close API Feb 03 09:00:08 RST38h: There are still more things to come, I guess. Feb 03 09:00:20 X-Fade: As I said, MAFW is irrelevant to this task, it is a system of media player plugins Feb 03 09:00:47 sts: webwizardry.net/~timeless/start-hildon.diff Feb 03 09:01:02 RST38h: Yes, but so far it doesn't seem like any parts that control new hardware have been added to the SDK. Feb 03 09:01:09 timeless: ta, how does maemo do it btw? Feb 03 09:01:19 can i plead the fifth? Feb 03 09:01:31 X-Fade: Even if they do get added, MAFW will continue being a system of media player plugins Feb 03 09:01:52 timeless: yeah, sure Feb 03 09:01:56 RST38h: I'm not talking about mafw. Feb 03 09:02:11 X-Fade: Ah, you mean Fremantle in general... Feb 03 09:02:29 RST38h: Yes, the SDK isn't feature complete yet. Feb 03 09:02:53 X-Fade: I am pretty sure it wil use GStreamer again, I think somebody stated it when discussing MAFW Feb 03 09:03:17 X-Fade: And you have just seen an example of a video capture code with GStreamer :) Feb 03 09:03:23 timeless: En_gb, btw? Feb 03 09:03:26 and not en_gb? Feb 03 09:04:02 typo Feb 03 09:04:09 k Feb 03 09:04:20 (yes, i do review patches occasionally :P) Feb 03 09:04:27 my system takes the current-locale path :) Feb 03 09:04:34 i like having strings :) Feb 03 09:05:07 changed Feb 03 09:05:38 the string should match what i removed (-export LANG=en_GB.utf8) Feb 03 09:05:51 probably a more proper patch would have Feb 03 09:05:58 DEFAULT_LANG=en_GB.utf8 Feb 03 09:06:07 and then use it in those other two places Feb 03 09:06:15 so that if someone has a different default lang... Feb 03 09:06:44 Stskeeps, does initfs do anything useful? :) have you tried booting into rootfs directly? Feb 03 09:06:54 slonopotamus: yes, we're working on that at the moment Feb 03 09:06:55 there's a package called hildon-initscripts Feb 03 09:07:09 timeless: don't get me started on hildon-initscripts.. Feb 03 09:07:10 :P Feb 03 09:07:17 is that for scratchbox? Feb 03 09:07:51 no, but it's the init.d clusterfuck of booting hildon things :) we're putting hildon into what it -should- be, a session script Feb 03 09:08:07 it had a reference to LANG Feb 03 09:08:11 but that wasn't interesting Feb 03 09:08:15 (and it seems to be in fremantle better) Feb 03 09:08:34 osso-af-startup looks promising Feb 03 09:09:12 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-env/revision/23 <- applied it as such Feb 03 09:09:41 Meanwhile: Next Sidekick LX 2009/Blade, from Danger (acquired by Microsoft early in 2008), is going to run NetBSD as their operating system, causing Microsoft's recruiters to look for NetBSD developers. Feb 03 09:09:50 RST38h: that one is horribly weird Feb 03 09:09:54 looks good Feb 03 09:10:10 Sts: Poor MS just can't get rest lately Feb 03 09:10:28 Sts: First the Flight Simulator cluster fuck, now this Feb 03 09:10:29 ooh, osso-af-settings Feb 03 09:10:32 that sounds interesting Feb 03 09:10:38 timeless: sending version to builder Feb 03 09:11:06 oh, nope Feb 03 09:11:08 * timeless shrugs Feb 03 09:11:13 * timeless doesn't really want to figure this out Feb 03 09:11:16 ask andre__ Feb 03 09:11:18 it's specified Feb 03 09:11:32 he can even look at bugs i've filed internally recently to find the spec that's likely to talk about it :) Feb 03 09:11:51 timeless: i'm totally expecting the part on af-settings to be a page containing goatse.cx picture, but that's just me Feb 03 09:12:01 heh Feb 03 09:12:24 timeless: 0.2-12 in repository Feb 03 09:13:42 * timeless wonders how to update it Feb 03 09:13:57 would application manager offer me an "Operating System" update? :) Feb 03 09:14:00 hehe Feb 03 09:14:04 possibly Feb 03 09:14:09 i have no clue :) Feb 03 09:14:24 apt-get update; apt-get install hildon-desktop-env could prolly do that trick too Feb 03 09:14:32 49 upgraded packages Feb 03 09:14:46 is updating the xserver safe? Feb 03 09:15:12 oh well Feb 03 09:15:14 let's find out :) Feb 03 09:15:52 FEtched 15.1MB in 30s (491kB/s) Feb 03 09:16:19 hey Feb 03 09:16:25 * timeless wonders if bluetooth actually works here Feb 03 09:16:29 (it doesn't work in windows) Feb 03 09:16:35 in the VM? :P Feb 03 09:16:35 that'd be *really* amusing Feb 03 09:16:37 yes Feb 03 09:16:41 no clue Feb 03 09:17:05 right, so um Feb 03 09:17:06 qwerty12: stuck at home in the snow still? Feb 03 09:17:10 what was i supposed to file bugs about? Feb 03 09:17:17 qwerty: how do things look? Feb 03 09:17:32 Stskeeps, yeah :). Although it's all going a bit icy now :/ Feb 03 09:17:45 qwerty12: can you verify init=/sbin/tablet-init? Feb 03 09:17:54 timeless, all white :) Feb 03 09:17:59 (i have time to tinker with it today so) Feb 03 09:18:47 Stskeeps, go on then Feb 03 09:18:59 * qwerty12 apt-get sources kernel-source-diablo again Feb 03 09:19:27 help Feb 03 09:19:40 ~help Feb 03 09:19:41 where do bugs on the 'Panels' control panel applet go? Feb 03 09:19:55 timeless: the double application menu? :) Feb 03 09:19:57 known issue Feb 03 09:20:02 ? Feb 03 09:20:06 8. organize button doesn't fit (diablo, fremantle) Feb 03 09:20:06 oh, panels Feb 03 09:20:15 that'd be your employer i guess Feb 03 09:20:16 actually, i have two bugs for panels Feb 03 09:20:21 oh sure Feb 03 09:20:24 or roope :) Feb 03 09:20:32 i remember complaining about it years ago Feb 03 09:20:39 * timeless should have filed a bug Feb 03 09:20:58 my favorite stupid error message: Feb 03 09:20:59 "Two plug-ins required" Feb 03 09:21:00 timeless: you on the top-10 of reporters of internal bugs? :P Feb 03 09:21:20 counting or excluding andre's proxies? Feb 03 09:21:22 hehe Feb 03 09:21:27 and with or without cloning? Feb 03 09:21:34 (we like to inflate our bug count) Feb 03 09:21:55 i'd expect that amongst engineers i'm in the top 10 Feb 03 09:22:06 amongst qa (or people paid to file bad bugs), i dunno :) Feb 03 09:22:16 um Feb 03 09:22:23 i'd need to know my password Feb 03 09:29:54 what password? :P Feb 03 09:30:05 i need to know your password too. Feb 03 09:31:06 for the bug database Feb 03 09:35:24 sts? Feb 03 09:35:32 the first if has what looks like a tab Feb 03 09:35:43 the next ifs uses 2 spaces Feb 03 09:36:05 oh, and the code mixes if [] and if test Feb 03 09:36:15 true, but it works :P Feb 03 09:36:23 and "x$FOO" = "x" and -z Feb 03 09:36:28 oh well, Feb 03 09:36:29 * Myrtti goes to wash her eyes... Feb 03 09:36:32 Stskeeps, what's default ip for telnet in rescue mode? Feb 03 09:36:36 qwerty12: 2.2 Feb 03 09:36:41 ta Feb 03 09:36:44 192.168.2.2 Feb 03 09:36:49 timeless: but cleanup patches are welcome Feb 03 09:36:50 OCAR: "the first if has what looks like a crab" Feb 03 09:37:10 nah, i'm lazy :) Feb 03 09:37:28 Myrtti, http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/eyelash/creatures.html :) Feb 03 09:37:32 * timeless kicks chrome Feb 03 09:38:11 qwerty12: hehe... was just misreading stuff Feb 03 09:38:22 :) Feb 03 09:38:36 oh Feb 03 09:38:41 tell me the magic of "x$FOO" Feb 03 09:38:52 why this ugly thing is needed? Feb 03 09:38:53 sts: so, install my locale and try it out? Feb 03 09:39:02 no need to stare at ugly_strings_like_this Feb 03 09:39:16 Why? To get you mad and drive you toward eventual insanity of course! Feb 03 09:39:28 arg Feb 03 09:39:37 i can't install battle-jeweled Feb 03 09:39:55 it wants hildon-games-wrapper0, libsdl1.2, osso-games-startup Feb 03 09:40:18 Stskeeps, btw, my wifi messed up on 0.7. I did chroot before and did a passwd root... Feb 03 09:40:38 timeless: just got a wifi card in the door so playing with that now :P Feb 03 09:40:43 qwerty12: hmm. Feb 03 09:40:50 qwerty12: your wifi is weird, corrupted CAL? Feb 03 09:40:58 slonopotamus: historically, some shells treated "$FOO" as "" if FOO was unset, and then treated "" as no arg. So without the "x" prefix, you could end up with something syntactically invalid Feb 03 09:41:22 Stskeeps, I'm pretty sure that I get ETSI as my band in maemo... Feb 03 09:41:53 Jaffa, then how one can make an empty string in such shell? Feb 03 09:42:46 qwerty12: did it mess up from early beginning? Feb 03 09:43:12 slonopotamus: I don't remember Feb 03 09:43:23 Stskeeps, yep, soon as I booted. Now that I've got g_ether inserted and a usb cable, nm shows a auto ethernet device that refuses to work Feb 03 09:43:54 qwerty12: k - NM shouldn't touch your usb at all when using the rescue menu and interfaces file Feb 03 09:45:24 jaffa? Feb 03 09:45:32 Unable to install battlegweled Feb 03 09:45:41 Application packages missing: foo (...) Feb 03 09:45:46 bar Feb 03 09:45:48 baz Feb 03 09:46:13 timeless: we don't have -games-wrapper ported yet :) Feb 03 09:46:15 -^ current junk - v proposed; suggestions wanted - Feb 03 09:46:27 Can't install battlegweled; Feb 03 09:47:09 the following required packages aren't available: foo (...) Feb 03 09:47:28 bar Feb 03 09:47:30 baz Feb 03 09:47:41 * timeless has no idea how it figures out the indentation Feb 03 09:48:24 Stskeeps, rebuilding. "CONFIG_CMDLINE="root=1f04 rootfstype=jffs2 init=/sbin/tablet-init ro console=tty0 console=ttyMTD5" Feb 03 09:48:37 qwerty12: alright, thanks :) Feb 03 09:50:52 so um Feb 03 09:50:57 are there *any* games i can play? Feb 03 09:51:37 * timeless isntalls metrinet Feb 03 09:52:29 Play tetris in aptitude :) Feb 03 09:53:42 rofl Feb 03 09:53:46 I thought it was minefield Feb 03 09:54:14 Haha, you're right, shows how much I use it :P Feb 03 09:54:22 * timeless frowns Feb 03 09:54:27 "All applications already installed" Feb 03 09:54:28 :( Feb 03 09:54:50 all your bases are belong to us :) Feb 03 09:55:05 "Your system already has these applications" Feb 03 09:55:07 sound better? Feb 03 09:55:28 I think so Feb 03 09:58:36 "Operation in progress" Feb 03 09:58:38 * timeless sighs Feb 03 09:58:41 what the heck does that mean? Feb 03 09:59:09 it's performing surgery Feb 03 09:59:17 => "Please wait": Feb 03 10:00:42 qwerty12: and the CMDLINE isn't in CAL, is it? Feb 03 10:01:01 Stskeeps, can't be. Remember solca's kernels used to boot from mmc directly Feb 03 10:01:11 ok, which is better: Feb 03 10:01:16 "mytube successfully installed" Feb 03 10:01:22 "mytube installed" Feb 03 10:01:27 "installed mytube" Feb 03 10:01:32 "Installed mytube" Feb 03 10:01:32 ? Feb 03 10:01:37 The first one Feb 03 10:01:51 why? Feb 03 10:02:08 do you expect it to say mytube damagedly installed? Feb 03 10:02:08 "Successfully" is superfluous Feb 03 10:02:19 It's nice to know that application manager hasn't messed up on you from time to time Feb 03 10:02:30 You expect it to tell you when it has? Feb 03 10:02:32 jaffa: right. so pick one :) Feb 03 10:02:36 * timeless rotfl Feb 03 10:03:22 Jaffa, yes. it reminds me that something made by nokia actually can work. Feb 03 10:03:24 "mytube installed" - it should be using the display name, anyway, so typically that might be something like "Maemo Mapper installed" Feb 03 10:03:39 mytube is what it gave me Feb 03 10:03:43 i really installed mytube Feb 03 10:03:51 Aye, I bet it doesn't have a display name :-( Feb 03 10:04:15 if mytube is stupid, file a bug Feb 03 10:09:43 Hehehehe: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/8882_The_Perils_of_Fortune-telling_.php Feb 03 10:09:49 Stskeeps, http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/zImage.tar - "[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~/99x/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source] > strings arch/arm/boot/Image | grep tablet -root=1f04 rootfstype=jffs2 init=/sbin/tablet-init ro console=tty0 console=ttyMTD5" Feb 03 10:09:50 * RST38h laughes maniacally Feb 03 10:10:07 qwerty12: thanks Feb 03 10:10:07 "Nokia definitely won't be number one manufacturer in 2007, though it could be Motorola or perhaps Handspring" Feb 03 10:10:18 " * BREW will become the dominant phone development environment by 2007-2010" - bollocks Feb 03 10:13:26 hi, I need the file 'install', which package it located? Feb 03 10:13:27 * timeless sighs Feb 03 10:13:59 eh? Feb 03 10:14:03 coreutils: /usr/bin/install Feb 03 10:14:25 should I install coreutils? it's conflict with busybox Feb 03 10:14:59 remove busybox? Feb 03 10:15:06 no Feb 03 10:15:16 then how? Feb 03 10:15:58 this is a scratchbox? Feb 03 10:16:04 qwerty: hey, BREW was good Feb 03 10:16:23 I don't know, how to check Feb 03 10:16:26 qwerty: Between BREW and MIDP... Feb 03 10:16:41 midp "won", right? Feb 03 10:17:14 qwerty12: i think it might work cos it doesn't seem to load now :> Feb 03 10:17:28 Sounds good >.< Feb 03 10:17:35 yes, is a good thing :> Feb 03 10:18:01 RST38h, but hell no on it becoming dominant over Symbian & MIDP :) Feb 03 10:18:23 I've never actually seen one single BREW phone here Feb 03 10:18:56 timeless? how to get it without installing coreutils. Feb 03 10:19:14 qwerty: Well, when BREW came up, MIDP was already there Feb 03 10:19:18 are you in scratchbox? Feb 03 10:19:39 qwerty: MIDP is a castrated Java, BREW is a castrated C Feb 03 10:20:01 sorry, I don't know. timeless Feb 03 10:20:20 RST38h, :) Feb 03 10:20:52 I don't know how to check this. is scratchbox a package? Feb 03 10:21:04 rockydd: is this a real tablet? Feb 03 10:21:15 yes, it is Feb 03 10:21:35 qwerty: it was still C though, a compiled language Feb 03 10:21:58 rockydd: well Feb 03 10:22:02 you have a couple of chioces Feb 03 10:22:21 one is to use dpkg-deb to extract /usr/bin/install from coreutils Feb 03 10:22:52 another is to try making a symlink from busybox to install and pray that it works Feb 03 10:22:53 ok, and? Feb 03 10:22:56 (no idea if it will) Feb 03 10:23:06 anyway, if you extract it, just stick it into /usr/bin Feb 03 10:23:09 it should "work" Feb 03 10:23:24 another is to just write a trivial /usr/bin/install in sh Feb 03 10:23:36 there aren't many args and you can probably ignore the complicated flavors Feb 03 10:23:49 ok. I will try the first one. thanks Feb 03 10:23:50 oh, and you should find out if there's a public bug filed complaining that it's missing :) Feb 03 10:24:20 thank u very much! Feb 03 10:24:28 how do i look at line 24 of a dozen files? :( Feb 03 10:25:23 * timeless tries perl -ne 'next unless $. == 5; print ;' Feb 03 10:26:03 qwerty12: worked, ta Feb 03 10:26:11 wicked! Feb 03 10:26:29 * qwerty12 wonders what he fucked up in his first build :) Feb 03 10:26:56 timeless: for i in *; do head -n 24 ${i} | tail -n 1; done ? Feb 03 10:27:53 hi, if it maters I just published some video of testing mer : http://en.theorasea.org/search.php?search=mobile Feb 03 10:28:00 on 770? Feb 03 10:28:23 * Stskeeps watches Feb 03 10:28:24 on qemu Feb 03 10:28:27 ah Feb 03 10:28:36 curious Feb 03 10:28:44 so the x86 version? Feb 03 10:28:48 I'll test next release on 770 promise Feb 03 10:28:49 yea Feb 03 10:28:50 Nokia is increasing orders in March as it prepares to "launch several 3G and 3.5G products with multi-touch and multimedia functions in 2009 Feb 03 10:29:19 Stskeeps: i am waiting to recieve my SD card for 770 Feb 03 10:31:20 timeless: I failed to download coreutils for apt-get is still check the conflict even if with the option -d Feb 03 10:31:21 jaffa: unfortunately i didn't know what i was looking for Feb 03 10:31:33 echo *enus1/po/en_US.po|xargs -n1 perl -ne 'next unless $. > 22 && $. < 31; print "$. $_";' |less Feb 03 10:31:37 ended up working Feb 03 10:31:49 rockydd: apt-cache policy coreutils Feb 03 10:31:51 nice :) Feb 03 10:31:54 could tell you where to find it Feb 03 10:32:08 oh, great! Feb 03 10:32:12 i kinda screwed up a search + replace Feb 03 10:32:23 rockydd: in genereal Feb 03 10:32:27 s/eal/al/ Feb 03 10:32:27 timeless meant: rockydd: in general Feb 03 10:32:31 #!/bin/sh Feb 03 10:32:37 echo $* >> /tmp/my-debug Feb 03 10:32:39 exit 1 Feb 03 10:32:42 ^D Feb 03 10:32:57 then just read my-debug and figure out what the args mean :) Feb 03 10:34:11 slowly add the pieces to handle those cases Feb 03 10:34:17 (and exit 0 for the cases you handle) Feb 03 10:34:57 that's the black box approach :) Feb 03 10:38:09 sts: did you fix core_pattern yet? Feb 03 10:46:52 right, so.... is there any way to get my xsession to restart? Feb 03 10:47:54 oh no Feb 03 10:48:03 * timeless accidentally uninstalled hidlon-theme-liberty Feb 03 10:48:04 hmmm Feb 03 10:48:53 BTW, gentlemen, has anyone already tried Android-optimized google pages in MicroB? Feb 03 10:48:59 jaffa: btw, hildon-theme-liberty has no pretty name Feb 03 10:52:39 qwerty12: got nit-kernel-compat package src still? Feb 03 10:52:46 Stskeeps, nope Feb 03 10:52:57 k Feb 03 10:53:13 It's still there in the reop Feb 03 10:53:17 s/reop/repo/ Feb 03 10:53:17 qwerty12 meant: It's still there in the repo Feb 03 10:53:22 k, im gonna bzrise it then Feb 03 10:53:51 Looks like I've got a reason to join launchpad then :) Feb 03 10:53:58 hehe, yes, you do :P Feb 03 10:57:10 qwerty12: i am in honest doubt wether root-mounted is a figment of imagination or not Feb 03 10:57:43 dsme: unrecognized option `--root-mounted' Feb 03 10:58:22 yeah, exactly Feb 03 10:58:26 dsmetool, right? Feb 03 10:58:58 [${SHLVL}|root@N800PIMPIN|/]strings `which dsmetool` | grep root Feb 03 10:58:58 root-mounted Feb 03 10:58:58 send_root_mounted_msg Feb 03 10:59:11 k Feb 03 10:59:14 so it does exist Feb 03 10:59:22 # echo "nitboot: failed to get dsme to believe the root is mounted." Feb 03 10:59:23 fails btw Feb 03 10:59:40 not sure why Feb 03 10:59:49 Please fix, I'm not internationally renowned for my scripting ability :) Feb 03 11:00:01 sts: so, it looks like any desktop applet has the positioning problems :( Feb 03 11:00:03 hehe, k Feb 03 11:00:06 timeless: on VMDK? Feb 03 11:00:16 yeah Feb 03 11:00:18 k Feb 03 11:00:19 i tried cairoclock Feb 03 11:00:21 timeless: sorry, I didn't find the coreutils.deb Feb 03 11:00:22 it fails the same way Feb 03 11:02:06 rzr: can't seem to get the video to play Feb 03 11:02:11 got a direct link i can dl? Feb 03 11:02:23 repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/./free/c/coreutils/coreutils_5.2.1-2osso1_armel.deb Feb 03 11:02:28 according to my system Feb 03 11:02:35 not sure if there's a newer version Feb 03 11:02:39 my mirror is old Feb 03 11:03:34 ok, so... Feb 03 11:03:40 i'm relatively happy w/ h-a-m now Feb 03 11:03:48 hehe Feb 03 11:04:25 timeless: if you see problems or issues, add them to http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints/0.8 , if we disagree if it should get into mer discussion ensues, but just add to the list and we'll get to them eventually :) Feb 03 11:04:26 timeless: thanks, but, how did you find that link? Feb 03 11:04:30 anyway, people who are 'subscribed' to forjx should grab a new version Feb 03 11:04:43 rockydd: i have a mirror of repository.maemo.org Feb 03 11:04:48 so, cd Feb 03 11:04:56 find . -name '*coreu*deb' Feb 03 11:05:03 :) Feb 03 11:05:35 stskeeps: please grab forjx and try it in the enxt hour or so :) Feb 03 11:05:38 o. can I use the apt-get to find this link? Feb 03 11:06:00 well Feb 03 11:06:05 apt-cache policy for me gives: Feb 03 11:06:15 dk.archive.ubuntu.com jaunty/main Packages Feb 03 11:06:21 timeless: forjx? Feb 03 11:06:47 w/ a lot of effort.. Feb 03 11:07:46 /var/lib/apt/lists/dk.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_*Packages would help Feb 03 11:08:31 grep 'Package: coreutils' /var/lib/apt/lists/dk.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_*Packages Feb 03 11:08:35 oh, right Feb 03 11:08:46 tells me it's in dk.archive.ubuntu.com...jaunty.main.binary Feb 03 11:08:53 the _'s in the filename are actually /'\s in http Feb 03 11:09:05 so you can recover something like that Feb 03 11:09:14 well, maybe not /'s exactly Feb 03 11:09:17 but it's doable Feb 03 11:09:29 alternatively there's a Path/Pool thing near that section Feb 03 11:09:33 which is the path within the something Feb 03 11:09:37 it's doable Feb 03 11:09:40 * timeless has code which does it Feb 03 11:10:01 fwiw, this is jaunty/x86 because it's Mer0.7-vmware Feb 03 11:10:11 normally i don't run ubuntu Feb 03 11:10:16 oh, thanks Feb 03 11:11:12 * timeless wonders why 'fuelpad-dbg' is available from Blue pill-ham Feb 03 11:11:33 Do you have extras enabled or something in Mer? Feb 03 11:11:41 yes Feb 03 11:11:43 ah :) Feb 03 11:11:49 is that bad? :) Feb 03 11:11:57 nah, it is a good way to see where we're lacking Feb 03 11:12:04 fwiw, jaffa, maemo-mapper doesn't have a pretty name Feb 03 11:12:07 please file a bug :) Feb 03 11:12:11 No, not at all, I was just wondering where all this maemo stuff was coming from :D Feb 03 11:12:53 qwerty: please update forjx Feb 03 11:12:59 qwerty12: http://rafb.net/p/q8OjNN80.html Feb 03 11:12:59 the h-a-m strings should be much better Feb 03 11:13:07 timeless, sorry, I'm busy packaging atm :) Feb 03 11:13:16 Stskeeps, ooh Feb 03 11:14:09 qwerty12: tablet-init also allows nice tricks like: Feb 03 11:14:20 http://rafb.net/p/PVjCVH48.html ;) Feb 03 11:14:27 qwerty: alright, just install it before you install your package :) Feb 03 11:14:50 Stskeeps, haha, I like ;) Feb 03 11:14:52 * timeless installs liqbase Feb 03 11:14:53 timeless, :) Feb 03 11:15:15 timeless: no clue how stable Xv is :> Feb 03 11:15:28 sts: i'm testing strings, not using programs :) Feb 03 11:15:35 ah Feb 03 11:15:44 well either is good if it actually boots Feb 03 11:15:44 :P Feb 03 11:15:52 * timeless is much happier with the new strings Feb 03 11:16:14 you won't be confused between a package named 1MB and a package that needs to download 1MB of stuff Feb 03 11:16:44 * Stskeeps ponders idly Feb 03 11:16:45 E: Couldn't make mmap of 25165824 bytes - mmap (22 Invalid argument) Feb 03 11:16:53 that's a standar dthing Feb 03 11:17:06 you need an apt.conf.d setting to make it less stupid Feb 03 11:17:27 hmm? Feb 03 11:19:04 ffs.. a jffs2 problem Feb 03 11:19:09 it's apt::cache-limit Feb 03 11:19:31 # echo 'APT::Cache-Limit "125829120" ' > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/30cache Feb 03 11:19:39 where the number is picked somewhat randomly Feb 03 11:19:53 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/24626 Feb 03 11:20:00 of any of the dozens of duplicates Feb 03 11:20:01 : Feb 03 11:20:20 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=314334 or this Feb 03 11:20:53 yeah yeah Feb 03 11:21:01 there are dozens of copies of the bug all over Feb 03 11:21:06 you get used to it Feb 03 11:21:20 k Feb 03 11:21:52 um Feb 03 11:22:03 does Organize applications in panels in control panel work for you? Feb 03 11:22:07 i can't seem to actually drag stuff Feb 03 11:22:21 hrm, now i can Feb 03 11:22:40 "Kill as much alien insect motherfuckers as possible." or "Kill as much alien insect bastards as possible." Feb 03 11:23:34 s/."/." ?/ :) Feb 03 11:23:35 ;P Feb 03 11:24:09 * qwerty12 is only asking because original description of this game uses bastards, but I like motherfuckers more Feb 03 11:24:14 hrm Feb 03 11:24:19 organize doesn't actually *work* Feb 03 11:24:24 even after you do stuff Feb 03 11:24:39 does organize assume you're /home/user ? Feb 03 11:25:10 entirely plausible Feb 03 11:25:33 scrobbler needs some English love Feb 03 11:25:46 how hard is it to spell OK correctly? :( Feb 03 11:25:56 Okaj Feb 03 11:25:57 0|< Feb 03 11:25:57 :P Feb 03 11:27:54 * Stskeeps generates a new jffs2 imag Feb 03 11:27:54 e Feb 03 11:28:23 generate an ubifs one too ;) Feb 03 11:28:34 does it have a mkubifs thing? Feb 03 11:28:52 taking in files Feb 03 11:30:26 no idea Feb 03 11:30:31 can't find the tools, weird Feb 03 11:30:46 hey Feb 03 11:30:51 in normal solitaire Feb 03 11:30:58 can you stick any random card on an open slot? Feb 03 11:30:58 mkfs.ubifs exists in latest mtd-tools ;) Feb 03 11:31:25 why it want scratchbox/.../install? Feb 03 11:31:30 make: /scratchbox/tools/bin/install: Command not found Feb 03 11:31:41 why what wants that? Feb 03 11:31:45 rockydd: lots of packages are stupid :) Feb 03 11:31:55 and their owners are ever dumber Feb 03 11:31:57 * timeless grumbles Feb 03 11:32:20 make install want this, how to change Feb 03 11:32:23 sudo mkdir -p /scartchbox/tools/bin; sudo ln -s /usr/bin /scratchbox/tools/bin Feb 03 11:32:47 that will work Feb 03 11:33:01 in theory Feb 03 11:33:04 dunno about practice Feb 03 11:33:50 work... Feb 03 11:34:43 "election process referendum" Feb 03 11:34:45 oh my Feb 03 11:34:54 they'd better write code instead :) Feb 03 11:35:09 Who's "they"? Feb 03 11:35:14 * Jaffa writes plenty of code TVM Feb 03 11:35:28 Interest in community process isn't incompatible with writing code, y'know. Feb 03 11:38:05 * Stskeeps watches Mer boot Feb 03 11:38:13 Anyone know a sane way for dpkg to install configuration files in /home/user sanely? For roxterm, I did: http://pastebin.com/d65ae24d2 and I still have nightmares Feb 03 11:38:42 ick :P Feb 03 11:40:07 morning Feb 03 11:40:30 morning Feb 03 11:40:39 morning lardman Feb 03 11:41:09 lardman: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-beagle.png :) Feb 03 11:44:20 afternoon everybody) Feb 03 11:44:27 hi wazd Feb 03 11:46:57 heya wazd Feb 03 11:47:18 wazd: Feel like drawing a cure pixel-perfect picture of TI83 calc? =) Feb 03 11:47:22 sorry, TI85 Feb 03 11:47:30 s/cure/cute/ ah shit Feb 03 11:49:04 qwerty: You can actually use "install" program for that, should work Feb 03 11:49:36 RST38h: well, why not :) Feb 03 11:49:42 RST38h, but maemo doesn't come with a install program by default and coreutils conflicts :/ Feb 03 11:49:49 voting on voting process is an extremely interesting thing :) Feb 03 11:49:53 RST38h: I've almost nothing to do before UI release Feb 03 11:50:06 wazd: ok, gimme another few days to update the sources so that they run with the latest EMULib... Feb 03 11:50:16 slonopotamus, irony at its best :) Feb 03 11:50:49 whoa, Weather Underground provides XML for... free!!11 Feb 03 11:50:52 qwerty: If I understand things correctly, "install" only has to run on the host system when creating a deb file? Feb 03 11:51:00 qwerty12, i wonder how they will split when mer becomes fully functional Feb 03 11:51:01 omg, can't beleive my eyes) Feb 03 11:51:47 qwerty12, will there be single "maemo community" or "maemo community" and "mer community" Feb 03 11:52:05 slonopotamus: mer doesn't exist without maemo, so Feb 03 11:52:10 RST38h, oh, I can install the file into the package but when dpkg installs, I risk having /home/user owned by root but then again, I may be able to run chown without -R... Feb 03 11:52:37 slonopotamus: what's all this "they" stuff? Feb 03 11:52:41 slonopotamus, I'm not really part of either but I can't imagine Mer splitting seeing as it plans on using a lot of stuff from Fremantle Feb 03 11:52:49 s/plans/uses Feb 03 11:52:58 wazd: whoa Feb 03 11:53:02 qwerty12: and what of "it" are you not part of? Feb 03 11:53:06 Stskeeps, closed software? everything else can happily live without maemo Feb 03 11:53:08 wazd: that wasn't free first right? Feb 03 11:53:09 * Jaffa is very confused by some of these statements Feb 03 11:53:19 slonopotamus: i guess it's how you define maemo really Feb 03 11:53:22 aquatix: yep Feb 03 11:53:30 slonopotamus: given that Maemo Software is the primary developer of Hildon, I think you're might be a little off Feb 03 11:53:44 Jaffa: ok, to claridy things, you are either "they" or "it". Feb 03 11:53:48 aquatix: just came to them in search of free sources and license agreements) Feb 03 11:53:52 Jaffa, do you separate Maemo Software and Maemo Distro? Feb 03 11:54:03 Jaffa, the community :) Feb 03 11:54:24 slonopotamus: To an extent. But the thread is about the maemo.org community, and given that houses Mer, I fail to see what you're driving towards. Feb 03 11:54:26 * RST38h cackles evilly Feb 03 11:54:27 qwerty12, i use gcc. it doesn't mean i'm part of anything. Feb 03 11:54:38 qwerty12: i'd say you're participating and doing active community work, but hey :P Feb 03 11:54:51 qwerty12: In what way are you *not* part of the community? You contribute to #maemo, you're prolific on ITT, ... Feb 03 11:55:01 qwerty12: why do you think you're not part of the community? Feb 03 11:55:31 Jaffa, "they" = people who claim to be in maemo community Feb 03 11:56:08 Jaffa, dunno, I contribute to ITT but I get the feeling that that's it Feb 03 11:56:36 qwerty12: it's also how you define community. i mean, are you part of wikipedia community when you edit a page once in a while? Feb 03 11:56:54 (i'd say so, cos you are learning the practices of the community) Feb 03 11:57:04 qwerty12: You're here practically all the time, you're on ITT a lot, you're in the community whether you think you are or not Feb 03 11:58:01 For the record: the Maemo Community can be thought, roughly, as everyone here: http://maemo.org/profile/list/, everyone who's subscribed to a maemo-* mailing list and everyone who regularly reads/visits/posts/has an account on ITT Feb 03 11:58:21 Oh, and everyone who's semi-active on #maemo Feb 03 11:58:31 :) Feb 03 11:58:40 * RST38h has got flashbacks to soviet times now Feb 03 11:58:58 comrade qwerty12 Feb 03 11:59:02 qwerty12: given you're in the top 10 in that list, you must've done something in the community to get it :) Feb 03 11:59:14 Jaffa, can't sort by nickname :( Feb 03 11:59:21 * slonopotamus wonders if he is on the list Feb 03 11:59:51 http://maemo.org/profile/view/slonopotamus/ Feb 03 11:59:59 oh my Feb 03 12:00:09 So, probably on page 30-40, at a guess. Feb 03 12:00:20 low ranking party member indeed Feb 03 12:02:06 can i leave somehow? Feb 03 12:02:26 no. Feb 03 12:02:49 woops Feb 03 12:05:51 I have 144 :) oh my :) Feb 03 12:08:48 Stskeeps: sorry for the lag, cool, working on the Beagle :) Feb 03 12:11:05 lardman: i don't own a powered usb hub or a usb host enabler, sadly, so can't test kbd Feb 03 12:11:09 ~seen kozak Feb 03 12:11:36 kozak was last seen on IRC in channel #android, 81d 3h 12m 18s ago, saying: 'thanks'. Feb 03 12:11:42 eh Feb 03 12:11:48 ~seen kosak Feb 03 12:11:49 kosak was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 225d 14h 40m 43s ago, saying: 'hello people'. Feb 03 12:12:06 Stskeeps: powered hub is cheap Feb 03 12:12:14 yeah, but i just don't have one :) Feb 03 12:12:30 i so hate this thumbs-up and thumbs-down in p.m.o . People who just say something nice about Maemo get thumbs-up Feb 03 12:12:46 or just say anything Feb 03 12:12:55 zeenix: i actually read the posts i thumbs up :P Feb 03 12:13:15 Stskeeps: heh! i wasn't talking of anyone particular Feb 03 12:13:25 Stskeeps: there is no way of knowing anyways Feb 03 12:13:26 * Jaffa also thumbs up anything he might want to read later (it *is* a favouriting system) Feb 03 12:14:01 zeenix: Have you got specific complaints? [texrat was moaning similarly recently] Feb 03 12:14:06 It's Maemo.org for Maemo, surely you weren't hoping that there would be no favouritism :) Feb 03 12:14:29 Jaffa: dude! i have had a bug about it Feb 03 12:14:52 Jaffa: which did some good: the karma doesn't go below 0 anymore :) Feb 03 12:15:20 zeenix: I know you did, just wondering what prompted a resurgence about it ;-) Feb 03 12:16:26 Jaffa: just reading through p.g.o . It's not personal anymore Feb 03 12:16:28 :) Feb 03 12:24:09 qwerty12_N800: moving nit-kernel-compat to 100% Feb 03 12:24:19 Stskeeps, w00t Feb 03 12:24:24 X-Fade: ping Feb 03 12:24:41 Stskeeps, is apt still being a pain? Feb 03 12:24:54 qwerty12_N800: yes Feb 03 12:25:04 lardman: pong Feb 03 12:25:04 eurgh Feb 03 12:25:24 qwerty12_N800: hmm? Feb 03 12:25:38 X-Fade: just out of interest, have the midgard updates been implemented yet? Feb 03 12:25:45 w00t, change your nick :) Feb 03 12:25:59 :P Feb 03 12:26:15 lardman: Yes. Feb 03 12:26:27 hmm, I'm still lacking Feb 03 12:26:31 in karma that is Feb 03 12:26:45 yeah, i'm waiting for iTT karma too :P Feb 03 12:26:55 no, discussion karma I mean Feb 03 12:27:13 Stskeeps: you should have it if your ITT account is linked to from your maemo.org profile Feb 03 12:27:19 Jaffa: it is, with url :P Feb 03 12:27:24 I have 44 now (I had 38 yesterday, interesting, no emails in the meantime) but have sent >220 emails, the majority to -devel and -users Feb 03 12:27:38 Stskeeps: is there a bug open? Feb 03 12:28:00 X-Fade: shall I reopen this bug? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3692 Feb 03 12:28:05 Jaffa: no, so i should stop complaining ;) Feb 03 12:28:08 lardman: it's possible it's doing a recount, AIUI it recounts from scratch and could be only half way through at any single time. Mmmm, ACID doesn't count here Feb 03 12:28:13 Stskeeps: or raise a bug ;-) Feb 03 12:28:30 lardman: If it doesn't work for you, you should :) Feb 03 12:28:33 Jaffa: well it will just keep the old value until it's recounted surely Feb 03 12:28:47 X-Fade: is there a better bug to reopen? Feb 03 12:28:49 lardman: from what I heard, no. Which is crazy. Feb 03 12:29:04 Jaffa: really?! Feb 03 12:29:15 X-Fade: is that right, karma is updated as it's counted? Feb 03 12:29:25 lardman: I hope I'm misremembering. Feb 03 12:29:29 Or it's been changed. Feb 03 12:29:30 lardman: No.. Feb 03 12:29:49 It gets recounted every time the run passes over your account. Feb 03 12:30:05 But it adds all the karma parts together at the same time.. Feb 03 12:30:06 ok, but the running total isn't displayed until it's finished the count I presume? Feb 03 12:30:43 has the -community karma just been added in? /me is wondering why his discussion karma has gone up 6 points since yesterday Feb 03 12:30:44 lardman: A few ms difference perhaps. But certainly not more. Feb 03 12:30:55 X-Fade: cool Feb 03 12:30:58 lardman: No -community is not in there. Feb 03 12:31:23 hmm, still weird things going on then Feb 03 12:31:40 X-Fade: Is there a bug to get -community in there? And are you aware of an ITT bug for what Stskeeps is describing (no karma contribution showing up for anything ITT related despite having a valid member URL) Feb 03 12:31:44 lardman: Yep, complain in that bug as something is not ok.. Feb 03 12:31:55 Jaffa: Yes there is a bug for -community. I filed it. Feb 03 12:32:12 Jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3911 Feb 03 12:32:16 X-Fade: with an election looming, these bugs would be good to get ironed out :) Feb 03 12:32:57 Jaffa: Yeah, juggling with time ;) New styling, bugs.. hmmmmm.. Feb 03 12:33:22 X-Fade: indeed, it's a good job there're lots of full time people working on maemo.org :) Feb 03 12:33:42 Jaffa: yeah, that's what made me check again Feb 03 12:34:03 Stskeeps: when you've raised your bug, can you let me know? Feb 03 12:34:20 Jaffa: trying to see if addding a www. in front of url helps Feb 03 12:35:31 I'll try recounting lardman's karma. Let's see what it gives.. Feb 03 12:35:51 right, I've re-opened https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3692 Feb 03 12:35:54 thanks X-Fade Feb 03 12:37:54 lardman: Simon Pickering (karma: 368.75 comments: 4 favourites: 1.75 buries: 0 blogs: 4 products: 0 discussion: 44 groups: 57 bugzilla_reported: 68 bugzilla_comments: 7 itt_thanks: 139 itt_posts: 31 mediawiki_edits: 13) Feb 03 12:38:49 Stskeeps: Carsten Munk (karma: 256.75 comments: 0 favourites: 9 buries: 0.75 blogs: 0 products: 0 discussion: 6 groups: 18 bugzilla_reported: 16 bugzilla_comments: 4 itt_thanks: 146 itt_posts: 16 mediawiki_edits: 41) Feb 03 12:39:13 k, ta Feb 03 12:39:24 That are karma values, not the raw number of course. Feb 03 12:40:16 well what's the discussion multiplier? Feb 03 12:40:18 itt_thanks=146 is determined by how many times i've thanked? Feb 03 12:40:25 lardman: 1 iirc. Feb 03 12:40:36 ok, so I have ~200 emails that should have been counted Feb 03 12:40:37 Stskeeps, i'm waiting on you to approve my joining of Mer Committers. i thought knowing the admin on irc may help ;) Feb 03 12:40:56 Stskeeps: no, how many thanks you've received (multiplied by karma weighting) Feb 03 12:41:01 Jaffa: k Feb 03 12:41:06 qwerty12_N800: LightGreen'ing hildon-plugins-settings btw Feb 03 12:41:14 and moving the bug into seperate item Feb 03 12:41:15 Stskeeps: sqrt(thanks) * weight ;) Feb 03 12:41:30 Stskeeps, ok, sounds good :) Feb 03 12:41:36 qwerty12_N800: approved Feb 03 12:42:16 Lunch! bbl Feb 03 12:42:23 escape! Feb 03 12:43:57 jaffa: do you remember what product i wanted to add to bugs.maemo? :( Feb 03 12:45:07 load-monitor? Feb 03 12:46:09 load-applet Feb 03 12:46:11 and morning johnx_ Feb 03 12:46:41 mornin' Feb 03 12:47:14 * Stskeeps waits for the more correct beagleboard image to build Feb 03 12:47:21 * johnx_ has the flu, probably won't be very productive next couple days Feb 03 12:47:38 hehe, my productivity is 50% down with gf home and studies back :P Feb 03 12:47:55 :) Feb 03 12:47:58 probably just work and sleep for me Feb 03 12:48:16 hey johnx_ :) Feb 03 12:48:20 * RST38h now believes into "two weeks before RX-51" rumor. Feb 03 12:48:27 RST38h: how come? Feb 03 12:48:34 Sts: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/toshiba-tg01-with-4-1-inch-wvga-touchscreen-a-worlds-first-sna/ Feb 03 12:48:57 http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=ypycpKQxXR0 <--- Jezuz, MS are totaly geniuz guys xD Feb 03 12:48:58 At least, it will have to be *announced* (like N97) Feb 03 12:50:35 johnx_: i kinda want to try and put mer on http://www.pocketables.net/2009/02/viliv-s5-mid-coming-to-us-in-march-with-haptic-feedback.html Feb 03 12:51:31 then again, it's probably next project after my Mer-table.. Feb 03 12:52:20 ah, I keep looking at cheap psion teklogix netbook pros Feb 03 12:52:36 anyways, back to work for now Feb 03 12:53:04 hf Feb 03 12:53:06 Is snapdragon actually cooler than omap3?) Feb 03 12:56:24 PXA272 was armv5? Feb 03 12:57:32 wazd: About the same Feb 03 13:04:45 I lkie that "3D UI (User interface)!!11" banner in the top-right) Feb 03 13:05:08 hehe Feb 03 13:05:12 It's like Toshiba is some chineese manufacturer with Nokla) Feb 03 13:05:49 There should be mp8 support and "blututh" sign) Feb 03 13:06:10 qwerty12_N800: i'm gonna put mer on a pocket loox 720! Feb 03 13:06:15 * Stskeeps gets out the straightjacket icon Feb 03 13:06:36 Stskeeps: ah, I had one, nice PPC :) Feb 03 13:06:44 Stskeeps, woah, maybe i'll have a use for mine now :D Feb 03 13:06:48 But it was stolen and I bought n800 :) Feb 03 13:06:59 wazd, I still got my 720 :D Feb 03 13:07:07 qwerty12_N800: bastard :) Feb 03 13:07:24 wazd: There is really one drawback in that Toshiba Feb 03 13:07:39 I stole from some person in Moscow :) Feb 03 13:07:46 Unfortunately, this drawback is WindowMobile, which makes it unusable Feb 03 13:08:05 lol qwerty12_N800 Feb 03 13:08:20 RST38h: If manufacturer places "smooth transitions between apps" on the front page of the ad - it has nothing else to show Feb 03 13:08:39 qwerty12_N800: >:-D Feb 03 13:08:42 wazd: It is WinMobile. Crooked to begin with. Feb 03 13:08:51 why not - you know they have nothing if they DONT say something about how sliq their ui is Feb 03 13:08:53 wazd: Whatever you do to it, isn't going to make it better. Feb 03 13:09:07 RST38h: TG01 unveiling at the MWC makes you think Nokia'll unveil RX-51 as well? Feb 03 13:09:24 Jaffa: Yep Feb 03 13:09:35 Jaffa: I think so too actually :) Feb 03 13:09:40 Jaffa: At least in image, like N97 Feb 03 13:09:43 * Jaffa wonders if the capacitive screen in the RX-51 could enable multitouch (that Engadget story quoted Nokia saying "touchscreen *devices*" Feb 03 13:09:49 * Jaffa does too, FWIW. Feb 03 13:09:59 Might be wishful thinking, but they need to build some hype up. Feb 03 13:10:09 Jaffa: There are captive screens that can do that. Feb 03 13:10:11 * RST38h read that capacitive touchscreens have low precision Feb 03 13:10:14 Jaffa: well, I thought RX-51 would have resistive TS Feb 03 13:10:24 wazd: Yes, sorry - I got it wrong Feb 03 13:10:29 So, I would almost bet on RX-51 having resistive screen Feb 03 13:10:38 EHm resistive screens that can do that.. Feb 03 13:10:41 Or Hildon won't work Feb 03 13:10:43 Can *resistive* screens somehow do multitouch Feb 03 13:10:43 rx51 has a resistive screen. Feb 03 13:11:11 roope: sorry, I had a disconnect between brain & fingers Feb 03 13:11:13 anyone else wants to tell that RX-51 would have a resistive touchscreen?)) Feb 03 13:11:42 wazd: Source code indicated resistive. Feb 03 13:11:43 rx51 has a resistive screen. Feb 03 13:11:46 jaffa: not really, since ... well. Well. you can try launching sketch and playing with two fingers at the same time. Feb 03 13:12:00 it draws in between the two finger points. Feb 03 13:12:11 roope: indeed, seen lcuk's playing with that effect in liqbase Feb 03 13:12:16 I cant talk bout hardware Feb 03 13:12:26 qwerty12_N800, wazd: please don't do that. Feb 03 13:12:27 :D Feb 03 13:12:29 This gets logged. Feb 03 13:12:32 Naughty boys Feb 03 13:12:33 Of course you could do a uberhack and see that ... well. Another input, suddenly very far away frmo the first input. No human can move the finger so fast. Feb 03 13:12:36 X-Fade: GOOD. Feb 03 13:12:36 but if you use it for a fixed starting point (like for instance a SHIFT key) then you *can* give the full multitouch experience without being too flashy ;) Feb 03 13:12:39 johnx: ping Feb 03 13:12:41 sts: ping Feb 03 13:12:43 And then perhaps say = ahaa, he put another finger on the screen. Feb 03 13:12:46 sts: try installing Hebrew in Mer Feb 03 13:12:46 timeless: pong Feb 03 13:12:46 eurgh damn. Feb 03 13:12:50 timeless: er. Feb 03 13:12:51 i don't think it knows how to reboot Feb 03 13:12:57 timeless: it shouldn't Feb 03 13:12:57 :P Feb 03 13:12:59 from the diablo extras or something Feb 03 13:13:04 well, it tried very hard Feb 03 13:13:09 and it gave me the OS update strings Feb 03 13:13:10 for the record, that wasn't the real qgil. it was me & wazd Feb 03 13:13:11 kinda amusing Feb 03 13:13:14 X-Fade: Well, I told exactly the thing Quim always tells (and does it right) :) Feb 03 13:13:26 s/told/said/ Feb 03 13:13:26 Stskeeps: isn't Mer on the Viliv S5 just the x86 version? Feb 03 13:13:46 roope, its not halfway either - it has to account for pressure differential between fingers and with extremely slight variations the hot zone varies wildly Feb 03 13:13:48 i'd say so Feb 03 13:13:50 Jaffa: probably. Feb 03 13:13:59 lcuk: yup, it's quite wacky. Feb 03 13:14:19 you can test and confirm directly in liqbase ;) Feb 03 13:14:22 I was working kind of on that issue also when I was working on the stylus vs. finger detection. Feb 03 13:14:31 qwerty12_N800: ironic fact. artwork for loox is dolphins.. in water Feb 03 13:14:44 this device is -made- for mer Feb 03 13:14:44 :P Feb 03 13:15:06 DONT GO IN THE WATER : FISH SHIT IN IT Feb 03 13:15:12 :P Feb 03 13:15:15 Stskeeps, hehe, no need to remind me - i used to see it a lot after rebooting :p Feb 03 13:15:37 sts: what was i supposed to ping johnx about? Feb 03 13:15:38 Stskeeps: I remember some poorly drawn dolphins) Feb 03 13:15:42 logout out of the session? Feb 03 13:15:55 What I personalyl find interesting about the Android release is that it looks like they are planning to get the same release working in a mobile phone and in a netbook form factor. Feb 03 13:16:03 timeless: h-d-e, but i patched this already Feb 03 13:16:09 fsck Feb 03 13:16:14 roope, they arent the only ones :) Feb 03 13:16:22 diablo doesn't have dpkg-reconfigure! Feb 03 13:16:29 timeless: nor debconf Feb 03 13:16:34 timeless: Nope. Feb 03 13:16:43 ok, so... Feb 03 13:16:50 * timeless frowns Feb 03 13:16:54 roope: chinook would've been great for netbooks ;-) Feb 03 13:16:57 ok, so, if i hang h-a-m Feb 03 13:17:10 roope: where are you physically? Feb 03 13:17:15 At home. Sick. Feb 03 13:17:22 oh bother Feb 03 13:17:23 get well soon Feb 03 13:17:46 roope: i think some of the hildon desktop layouts may be useful on netbooks Feb 03 13:17:48 so, application manager doesn't like me Feb 03 13:17:50 I'm going to see the doctor. 38.6 fever and rising. I just love feeling like cr... like a carp. Feb 03 13:18:03 aren't fish cold blooded? Feb 03 13:18:12 it can't be that warm inside ;-b Feb 03 13:18:19 jaffa, chinook had too many binaries - mer on the other hand is being built as sane standard core with specific bits ontop Feb 03 13:18:30 it should be as happy on arm as it is x86 Feb 03 13:18:37 lcuk: yeah, I meant in terms of how it was in no way very useful for finger touches :) Feb 03 13:18:51 lolol Feb 03 13:18:53 (in general) Feb 03 13:19:00 * lcuk agrees Feb 03 13:19:23 Diablo took us in a more finger friendly direction (sub-optimally and inconsistently) but if that was necessary to get us to shiny goodness in fremantle and harmattan, so be it :) Feb 03 13:19:31 * Jaffa wants shiny new itchy hardware. Feb 03 13:19:38 ok, so obviously my current forjx is bad Feb 03 13:19:43 people w/ diablo shouldn't bother trying :( Feb 03 13:20:50 mmmm shiny hardware Feb 03 13:21:04 but you should put some cream on for the itching Feb 03 13:21:05 shiny leaves fingerprints. Feb 03 13:21:16 screen protectors are a godsend. Feb 03 13:21:38 mine is dirty as fuck but i dont see it Feb 03 13:21:54 shiny means you can wear it on your neck as jewellery. Feb 03 13:22:18 official flash images use same one for n800 & n810 don't they? Feb 03 13:22:22 the worse feeling in the world is taking stylus across a screen and suddenly feeling the tiny bit of drag as you catch some grit and leave a 5mm scratch over your tracks :'( Feb 03 13:22:32 lardman|home, different images Feb 03 13:22:48 qwerty12_N800: really? Same name though? Feb 03 13:22:58 ah, RX-nn Feb 03 13:23:16 lardman|home, both will flash fine on each other with forcing but you have things like wrong docs etc Feb 03 13:23:24 ok, thanks Feb 03 13:23:34 I've not flashed my n800 for a long while Feb 03 13:23:48 what's your secret? :) Feb 03 13:24:01 why I've not flashed it? Feb 03 13:24:51 how you've managed to not need a reflash Feb 03 13:25:22 wasn't using it for much Feb 03 13:25:34 n810 is day-to-day machine Feb 03 13:27:32 lcuk: :(( Feb 03 13:27:44 lcuk: another reason to use my grubby fingers ;) Feb 03 13:28:57 aquatix, ive got used to the feeling now but dread it happening Feb 03 13:29:08 Stskeeps, wouldn't maemo guys have ran into the apt issue at one point? Feb 03 13:30:20 qwerty12_N800: i think they did Feb 03 13:30:33 Stskeeps, they did. mmap.patch Feb 03 13:32:27 http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/02/first-look-the-maemo-5-multimedia-framework.ars Feb 03 13:32:52 they must have never thought how someone would say that url Feb 03 13:32:57 the end that is Feb 03 13:33:06 Americans Feb 03 13:33:22 blah.aas Feb 03 13:34:02 what device is that a picture of? Feb 03 13:34:22 arse end of the 810w Feb 03 13:34:33 i remember the big butt from linuxtag Feb 03 13:34:37 N810W Feb 03 13:34:39 ars-end please! Feb 03 13:34:41 Wot he said Feb 03 13:34:42 :) Feb 03 13:34:44 cheers chaps Feb 03 13:34:46 lol Feb 03 13:35:39 though why they show gratuitous ars shots i dunno - i suppose it just makes lardman happy :P Feb 03 13:35:59 no, just wondering if I'd missed the n900 announcement ;) Feb 03 13:36:27 lol Feb 03 13:37:58 "Heres our shiny new device, but we aren't gonna show you the front - we will just let you see its battery compartment" Feb 03 13:38:10 lardman|lunch: It'll be the Nokia 4Eva, and accompany an announcement that all bugs will - in future - only be fixed in Fremantle. Feb 03 13:38:16 then a few days later we see pap shots with the flap lifted slightly Feb 03 13:38:31 Just wait until we start to mark fixed in Harmattan. ;) Feb 03 13:38:46 roope: didn't we start already? Feb 03 13:38:56 Perhaps for some issues. Feb 03 13:39:33 *RX-503: added stannah stairlift Feb 03 13:39:58 nah, coffee maker first Feb 03 13:40:13 portable? we would need a big warning label Feb 03 13:40:43 nokia miracle fuel cell technology, runs on the finest coffee beans Feb 03 13:40:53 RX-52 will be a photo frame. Feb 03 13:40:55 lcuk: that's development you're thinking of Feb 03 13:40:55 * RST38h hides Feb 03 13:40:55 :P Feb 03 13:41:31 ahhh RST38h so we FINALLY work out the real purpose for the kickstand Feb 03 13:41:54 kickstand will not be foldable and will be integral part of the case Feb 03 13:42:20 does it come with grandma perfume dispensor ? Feb 03 13:42:53 use the light sensor to tell when you waved hand over it and squirt out a waft of finnish sauna air Feb 03 13:42:54 lcuk: Accessory PD-3G! Feb 03 13:42:56 * lcuk chokes Feb 03 13:43:15 ahhhh, so thats not in the box Feb 03 13:44:15 I was trying to put together my car mount this morning, and I see they've given me the wrong screw Feb 03 13:44:22 s/screw/bolt Feb 03 13:44:37 no, you've got the wrong car Feb 03 13:44:40 (me was reminded seeing the random code names for the parts) Feb 03 13:44:47 accessory PC-42M Feb 03 13:44:49 ;) Feb 03 13:44:54 as rst would say :P Feb 03 13:45:05 damn, will have to go trade it in then Feb 03 13:46:04 GStreamer gurus? Feb 03 13:46:19 Can I change bits of the UI from a bus callback, or is that a no-no? Feb 03 13:46:52 hmm, I think that should be ok actually Feb 03 13:47:37 depends what you want to change, ive been asked in the past why a program was failing in events - the event code closed down the container it was sat on.. Feb 03 13:47:56 just updating a label, but after that happens nothing else responds Feb 03 13:48:13 should be ok although it will only update it when you get to event loop Feb 03 13:48:20 but the gtk ui might be using hte label text at the time Feb 03 13:48:37 ok, so it must be returning to the event loop for it to display the new text, which it does Feb 03 13:48:49 lcuk: I don't think that's an issue here Feb 03 13:49:56 lol lardman - that sits like "here watch this, just hold my beer for a minute" Feb 03 13:50:42 lcuk/sts/qwerty:ok, the latest forjx actually installs on my device :) Feb 03 13:50:58 timeless: hehe, scary :) Feb 03 13:50:58 whats forjx? Feb 03 13:51:23 timeless, woot :) Feb 03 13:56:06 vanishing - bbl Feb 03 14:28:54 * timeless tests Sounds Feb 03 14:30:21 timeless: BOOM! Feb 03 14:30:40 No rule to make target `ruby.h', needed by `sqlite3_api_wrap.o'. Stop. Feb 03 14:30:51 lo timsamoff Feb 03 14:31:11 does anyone know if a GStreamer pipeline will automatically close down if its data is dropped for more than X number of frames? In my case 3 frames Feb 03 14:31:18 I am trying to gem install sqlite3-ruby Feb 03 14:31:54 I do have ruby.h, but seems that the make can't find it Feb 03 14:33:56 bbiab Feb 03 14:38:54 * Stskeeps curses non-EABI kernels Feb 03 14:41:34 timsamoff: hello) Feb 03 14:41:47 Hola. Feb 03 14:45:50 * slonopotamus likes freebsd make. $ make tea -> Don't know how to make tea. Stop. Feb 03 14:46:35 ~make ganja Feb 03 14:46:36 make: *** No rule to make target `ganja'. Stop. Feb 03 14:46:40 Anyone not able to start the latest SDK w/ Xephyr? I get half of the Hildon UI, but the rest of the screen is blank/unusable. Feb 03 14:47:12 timsamoff: yeah, they don't start matchbox-window-manager Feb 03 14:47:24 (for one) Feb 03 14:47:34 speaking of pre-alpha2? Feb 03 14:47:37 Yes. Feb 03 14:48:01 yeah, it's a tad broken for devel work Feb 03 14:48:57 Ah. Ok. I saw screengrabs of Alpha1, so was it working (I never installed it). Feb 03 14:49:14 yerga's stuff was with inserted matchbox initialization Feb 03 14:49:25 if you want to test the widgets, Mer has them :P Feb 03 14:49:42 Hehe. Feb 03 14:50:11 Thanks for the info. And, for the record... Mer is coming along so friggin' nicely. Good work. Feb 03 14:51:29 we'll see where it ends up :P Feb 03 14:53:20 * Stskeeps is trying to port Mer onto a pocket loox 720 Feb 03 14:54:00 * r2d2rogers is waiting to see if nm-applet will connect to something Feb 03 14:54:21 r2d2rogers: if it fails, try out wifi-radar Feb 03 14:54:32 wilco Feb 03 14:54:45 do we have anything for setting screen dim intervals? Feb 03 14:55:10 dsme-tools doesnt do the job? Feb 03 14:55:20 jsut edit the init.d for dsme-tools (for now) Feb 03 14:55:22 haven't played with it yet ;) Feb 03 14:55:26 thanks Feb 03 14:56:36 * qwerty12_N800 laughs as his bit of code actually works 0_o Feb 03 14:58:31 qwerty12_N800, beware of code that laughs at you and pretends working Feb 03 14:58:45 lol Feb 03 14:58:54 I wonder. How Nokia will solve the problem that VM doesn't have any 3D acceleration for images) Feb 03 14:59:45 wazd: I'm ignorant, but does Clutter solve some of this innately? Feb 03 14:59:46 Will new UI work fine with SW render Feb 03 15:00:14 wazd: which VM? Nokia have never shipped a VM for development; only Scratchbox (officially) Feb 03 15:00:28 timsamoff: I don't know, I'm really far away from linux tech :) Feb 03 15:00:29 wazd: should do, although it'd be slow on an ARM; not so slow on a beefy desktop Feb 03 15:00:52 Jaffa: Aw, I was talking bout VMWare Feb 03 15:01:16 wazd: vmware has 3d accel support. Feb 03 15:01:26 X-Fade: On windows - nope Feb 03 15:01:39 wazd: Problem is that we need opengl-es.. Feb 03 15:01:46 X-Fade: Doesn't worked for me with Ubuntu Feb 03 15:02:53 wazd: vmware should have opengl and directx support. Feb 03 15:03:37 X-Fade: well, I've done all the stuff described in readme but nothing happened Feb 03 15:03:52 wazd: http://www.vmware.com/files/pdf/vee.pdf Feb 03 15:04:51 wazd: http://pubs.vmware.com/ws6_ace2/ws/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=ws&file=ws_vidsound_d3d_enabling_guestos.html Feb 03 15:05:49 Anyway Opengl should not be a problem. OpenGL-ES might be tricky.. Feb 03 15:06:47 hi, is youtube slower in os2007 than os2008 (n800) ? looks like it but is it possible? Feb 03 15:07:04 kessu: Yes, for sure. Feb 03 15:07:09 X-Fade: thanks, I'll try that Feb 03 15:07:30 older flash & the processor runs at 330 in os2007 afaik Feb 03 15:07:31 timsamoff: thanks Feb 03 15:09:09 timsamoff: Otherwise it would be a serious regression ;) Feb 03 15:09:22 Ha! Feb 03 15:13:38 http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/21957/NEWS-21957-29b4b08a488a184d3f26c2b158fb75ef.jpg#image Feb 03 15:13:51 New Toshiba pda gallery Feb 03 15:15:27 wazd: Looks pretty slick. Feb 03 15:16:34 x-fade, for clutter dev you just need normal linux desktop (but make sure its a fast one, my ibm lenovo is poor at renderering even simple scenes at 1.4ghz) Feb 03 15:16:49 for actual ogl-es stuff you need specific devices Feb 03 15:17:17 magenta+orange+blue=puke Feb 03 15:19:28 RST38h: But, easy to navigate... Maybe those colors are customizable...? In any case, I don't see portrait mode. Hmmm. Feb 03 15:20:20 timsamoff: it is a single app on top of WinMobile 6.x Feb 03 15:20:39 timsamoff, winmo has had rotation since wm2003se, be a pita if they removed it in winmo 6 :) Feb 03 15:20:45 timsamoff: i.e. it does not get any better underneath Feb 03 15:21:19 * RST38h hopes someone hacks this thing to run a usable software stack Feb 03 15:21:20 things like the htc touch are really... the harder they try to put up a cool UI on top, the worse the winmo below it starts to feel. Feb 03 15:21:31 RST38h, a web browser is also just a single app ontop of any OS - look at the value it brings Feb 03 15:21:55 lcuk: Look at the IE Mobile browser included with that Toshiba or HTC Touch Feb 03 15:22:18 lcuk: After you finish talking to the toilet bowl, let us know about the value it brought =) Feb 03 15:22:22 cant you get a webkit browser for these things nowadays? Feb 03 15:22:31 Guess so, as a third party app Feb 03 15:22:38 There's the fennec pre-alpha -something for winmo now. Feb 03 15:22:41 lcuk: sure, or fennec Feb 03 15:22:41 roope: Thankfully, I haven't used winmo in many many years. :) Feb 03 15:22:50 timsamoff: make that "never" ;) Feb 03 15:22:50 Then again, Fennec. Ugh. Feb 03 15:22:55 roope: hehe Feb 03 15:23:52 why did they have to use such a kiddy OS on seemingly nice hardware? Feb 03 15:24:07 RST38h, there is actually one niceish (though slow) thing for winmo :compact .net as much as i hated dev in it i can see the benefits especially for a microsoft shop Feb 03 15:24:10 that TG01 would look rather nice with some maemo-based phone OS Feb 03 15:24:16 I shouldn't probably say nasty things about Fennec, and then again, I have nothing really positive to say about their UI, so ... I can't say anything. :) Feb 03 15:24:52 Silence is golden. :p Feb 03 15:25:05 lies Feb 03 15:25:07 If it worked like it was supposed to... Maybe something. Feb 03 15:26:21 If it worked like it's supposed to work, it's still ... clumsier to access functions using dragging gestures than simply tapping buttons. Feb 03 15:26:45 Say you want to zoom into to a couple of pages and switch tabs between them easily. Good luck! Feb 03 15:26:54 whilst we are burning paradigms, can we get rid of tap n hold? Feb 03 15:27:34 roope: True, but... They're thinking outside the box in some regards -- which sometimes just take time to get used to,. But, overall, I agree. Feb 03 15:27:35 lcuk: And replace it with what? tripple-click? Feb 03 15:27:52 If I can't click something four times, forget it. Feb 03 15:28:01 Tap and hold is rarely used, but ... Then again. It has its minor uses. Feb 03 15:28:19 well for a start - it would be nice to have a global default configurable: tapnhold, double tap, shift tap Feb 03 15:28:20 As long it's not for mandatory functions, it's kind of like meh. Feb 03 15:28:31 If t/h was more responsive, I'd want more of it. Feb 03 15:28:43 try to click exacly at the same spot while walking. Pretty hard.. Feb 03 15:28:55 Double tap is a much harder idea. Double tap implies that you cannot really do much after a single tap. That you must have a waiting timeout whether another tap comnes. Feb 03 15:28:58 try to hold it in same place and same happens - but you slip Feb 03 15:29:11 (unless it's like double tap to zoom in, where the first tap doesn't actually do anything). Feb 03 15:29:26 http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/02/03/toshiba-tg01-hands-on-photo-fest/ Feb 03 15:29:39 more Toshiba photos Feb 03 15:30:04 wazd is spamming us! :p Hehe. Feb 03 15:30:08 Putting lipstick on a pig. Feb 03 15:30:42 lcuk: slow though Feb 03 15:31:14 timsamoff: yep :P Feb 03 15:31:27 well, it's damn slim) Feb 03 15:31:31 lcuk: Well, Nokia recently got a patent for sensing where your fingers are on the back of the device. Feb 03 15:31:31 roppe: MS said they are "reducing the license availability" for WindowsMobile Feb 03 15:31:38 roope is talking about Sarah Palin now?! Feb 03 15:31:40 :p Feb 03 15:31:40 http://www.electricpig.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/img_6530.jpg Feb 03 15:31:41 Thatcan be used as a modifier for the clicj. Feb 03 15:31:45 *click Feb 03 15:31:55 roope: With the goal of moving it to more high end products Feb 03 15:32:24 It's an interesting thing. Winmo 7 should be good. Feb 03 15:32:38 x-fade Feb 03 15:32:45 * lcuk missed his comment Feb 03 15:32:50 * RST38h , meanwhile, thanks Steve Jobs for whipping everybody's asses into producing *decent* mobile hardware Feb 03 15:32:58 cool, make sure you let lardman know, he likes touching the backend Feb 03 15:33:18 but ive gotta vanish again Feb 03 15:33:29 lcuk lol Feb 03 15:33:52 * Stskeeps watches ubuntu boot on the pocket loox \o/ Feb 03 15:33:55 * aquatix makes a smart-ass remark about liking to touch his gf's backend Feb 03 15:34:07 Stskeeps: lol Feb 03 15:34:10 Stskeeps, fuck yes. Feb 03 15:34:16 ubuntu netthing edition? Feb 03 15:34:21 aquatix: soon Mer! Feb 03 15:34:26 nice Feb 03 15:34:32 loox is vga? Feb 03 15:34:42 or is it the 320x240 one? Feb 03 15:34:44 qwerty12_N800: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/zImage if you want to play Feb 03 15:34:55 aquatix, yeah, it can go into vga Feb 03 15:35:12 Stskeeps, I'll have to get a charger first :) Feb 03 15:35:15 qwerty12_N800: and http://rafb.net/p/a2ePj623.html as startup.txt for haret Feb 03 15:35:16 * timsamoff gotsta go watch the seminar that John Ressig gave to Yahoo! about DOM code. Feb 03 15:35:16 qwerty12_N800: hehe Feb 03 15:35:27 * timsamoff says "farewell." Feb 03 15:36:14 * johnx feels kinda like death warmed over Feb 03 15:36:39 Stskeeps, when you hard-reset, i presume winmo pops back? Feb 03 15:36:52 qwerty12_N800: yes Feb 03 15:37:04 annoying but so it goes Feb 03 15:37:10 it's 2.6.26 though Feb 03 15:39:16 Stskeeps, you should send solca a loox in that case... Feb 03 15:39:37 i am kinda worried about the battery on this loox though Feb 03 15:39:58 like, the battery has bumps Feb 03 15:40:07 prolly from standing in sun for 2 years Feb 03 15:40:08 Stskeeps: about to explode? Feb 03 15:40:11 http://www.wepc.com/ <--- that reminds me something) Feb 03 15:40:11 ick Feb 03 15:40:15 my one was a bit like that Feb 03 15:40:57 johnx: beagleboard port and Pocket Loox 720 in a day :> Feb 03 15:41:21 wazd: what are they selling? Feb 03 15:41:36 Oh, they are selling new maemo.org website design! Feb 03 15:41:40 Stskeeps: did it have a Linux port already which you could bootstrap over, or are you some form of ARM Linux porting genius now? Feb 03 15:41:54 how to re-start browserd, killed via ssh ;) Feb 03 15:41:58 Jaffa: in this case there was a kernel, had to enable EABI, and bam :P Feb 03 15:42:08 then ubuntu userland worked Feb 03 15:42:10 Stskeeps: lots of photos on Mer/About in the gallery, please :) Feb 03 15:42:23 Jaffa: i will :P should take my camera into work Feb 03 15:42:27 oli, /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart Feb 03 15:42:42 Jaffa: anyway, it's just to show that mer can be put in a lot of different places :P Feb 03 15:42:50 qwerty12_N800: thanks ;) Feb 03 15:42:54 True, but we should talk about that on Mer/About Feb 03 15:42:56 any sign of the Freemantle equivalent of Sardine? Feb 03 15:43:05 Sts: Mer for PocketPCs! Feb 03 15:43:11 milhouse: huh? :P Feb 03 15:43:19 RST38h: it is a pocket pc. it says so. Feb 03 15:43:29 Alpha build of Freemantle for the devices - thought it was suggested/promised by Quim Feb 03 15:43:42 milhouse: think it's alpha SDK you're thinking of Feb 03 15:43:50 bugger, so nothing for devices? Feb 03 15:43:52 Mer uses fremantle alpha SDK components Feb 03 15:44:09 ...and Mer can run on many devices (including 770, N8x0 etc.) Feb 03 15:44:12 I guess that would make sense as Freemantle isn't supported by our OMAP2 hardware Feb 03 15:44:18 * milhouse duh Feb 03 15:44:19 Stskeeps: does it actually get to a working desktop on 770? Feb 03 15:44:23 milhouse: s/Free/Fre/ Feb 03 15:44:24 Jaffa: yes, now it does Feb 03 15:44:30 we had sapwood problems before Feb 03 15:44:31 @Jaffa: Sorry! :) Feb 03 15:44:42 Stskeeps: and the shiny fremantle widgets all kinetically scroll nicely? Feb 03 15:45:07 Jaffa: no clue, don't own a 770 Feb 03 15:45:07 ask r2d2rogers :) Feb 03 15:45:07 Well, me neither. No reason they shouldn't. Feb 03 15:45:07 That's very cool. Feb 03 15:47:20 Stskeeps, very cool RE: getting loox and beagle booting. I guess I'll have to try and catch up to you now :) Feb 03 15:48:11 * Jaffa just got a Product Flash from expansys on the N810: down to 179.99ukp Feb 03 15:48:21 Stskeeps: you have some fancy refridgerator? Feb 03 15:48:30 Jaffa: whoa Feb 03 15:48:37 that's like, 170 EUR Feb 03 15:48:41 Yup Feb 03 15:48:53 hmmmmmmmmmmm :) Feb 03 15:49:05 http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=158518&partner=uknews Feb 03 15:49:20 aquatix: Well, actually more like 199 euro ;) Feb 03 15:49:47 X-Fade: details ;) Feb 03 15:56:48 Hey how can I reboot when in Mer? Feb 03 15:57:09 pop battery Feb 03 15:57:09 :P Feb 03 15:57:12 or sudo reboot Feb 03 15:57:12 open the terminal and type: sudo reboot Feb 03 15:59:38 lol been poping battery since yesterday Feb 03 16:05:55 please recommend usb keyboard for n800. requirements: must fit in a pocket. optional: some handle to put tablet on it Feb 03 16:06:22 X-Fade: You know, we have a small problem of duplicate emails for accounts? Feb 03 16:06:27 slonopotamus, how big are your pockets? and does it have to be touch-typable? Feb 03 16:06:28 slono: Nokia's own keyboard Feb 03 16:06:35 SU-8 or something like that Feb 03 16:06:49 SU-8W Feb 03 16:06:58 (Not my recommendation :)) Feb 03 16:07:01 slonopotamus, I assume the emphasis is on USB to get it working easily in gentoo? Feb 03 16:07:06 dneary: What's up? Feb 03 16:07:16 johnx, right Feb 03 16:07:22 X-Fade: I found 263 email addresses owning 2 or more maemo accounts Feb 03 16:07:29 We should probably clean that up Feb 03 16:07:51 dneary: Well, it that bad? Feb 03 16:08:02 johnx, width of cd box, height - two cd boxes Feb 03 16:08:02 252 of them only have 2 Feb 03 16:08:05 I can create 1M email address if I really need accounts ;) Feb 03 16:08:23 su-8w... googling Feb 03 16:08:39 The others are mostly nokia people (Jake has 6, Ferenc has 5, mika has 3) Feb 03 16:08:59 johnx, preferred size - like tablet itself Feb 03 16:09:04 X-Fade: It seems to me like the primary email address should be a unique constraint for the users database Feb 03 16:09:10 X-Fade: You don't agree? Feb 03 16:09:20 dneary: And are those duplicate accounts not deleted status? Feb 03 16:09:20 su-8w is bluetooth Feb 03 16:09:24 dneary: No, not really. Feb 03 16:09:29 slonopotamus, su-8w is bt, not usb. are you looking for something foldable? or is thumb typing ok? Feb 03 16:09:38 These are people we are certain are getting multiple ballots in elections Feb 03 16:09:39 * rm_you waves at johnx Feb 03 16:09:53 Sure, it's not much effort to create a new email address Feb 03 16:09:57 hoi rm_you :) Feb 03 16:10:03 I could create 6 or 7 accounts myself Feb 03 16:10:08 dneary: If one really wants to do that, it is not hard to circumvent. Feb 03 16:10:28 dneary: Not sure if you really need to put the time and effort in preventing that. Feb 03 16:10:29 Do you know how I can tell if an account is deleted? Feb 03 16:10:40 johnx, both ok. smaller - better, self hand will hold tablet, so i have only one to type Feb 03 16:10:44 One of the timedate fields is 0, right? Feb 03 16:10:47 The third one? Feb 03 16:11:13 johnx, if kb doesn't have any hokder Feb 03 16:11:22 slonopotamus, uh...that limits it a bit... Feb 03 16:11:25 s/hokder/holder/ Feb 03 16:11:25 slonopotamus meant: johnx, if kb doesn't have any holder Feb 03 16:11:54 johnx, it can be big but with holder for tablet Feb 03 16:11:54 This came up when I was importing karma Feb 03 16:12:09 And I was expecting email to be a unique index Feb 03 16:12:11 And it isn't Feb 03 16:12:26 Well, I can add your email to my additional emails in my profile too. Feb 03 16:12:30 Instant karma! Feb 03 16:12:48 slonopotamus, that still limits it :) I've been looking for the same thing for a while. my advice is to just make X work and use an onscreen keyboard Feb 03 16:14:06 johnx, i can't test x from maemo, so i need to boot gentoo to test it. but without kb i'll have to reboot gentoo <-> maemo like crazy Feb 03 16:14:41 slonopotamus, yes, but why do you need to do it away from home? Feb 03 16:14:51 johnx, it can limit as much as it want until there is at least one satisfying thing :) Feb 03 16:15:31 johnx, i have more important things to do at home :) and 2 hours a day in transport Feb 03 16:16:02 should take about one night to make X work... but let me find the keyboard that came closest to what you want Feb 03 16:17:26 johnx, anyway i'd like to have some backup if i kill x :) and i'm sure it'll happen Feb 03 16:18:24 X doesn't die in Maemo. :) make it not die in gentoo... Feb 03 16:18:31 optionally, somebody could present me n810 :) Feb 03 16:18:57 today is my birthday, so it's a good moment to do that :P Feb 03 16:19:26 sure, send me $220USD+shipping and I'll give you a birthday present :) Feb 03 16:19:55 * timsamoff thanks X-Fade for helping. Feb 03 16:20:01 slonopotamus: Happy Birthday! There you go: http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/n810_01_low.jpg Feb 03 16:20:09 hmm... su-8w has some kind of handle Feb 03 16:20:48 wazd, you're so kind... :) Feb 03 16:21:11 slonopotamus: yep, thats me :P Feb 03 16:23:29 what can you say about logitech dinovo mini? Feb 03 16:23:43 expensive Feb 03 16:23:58 i like it's... mmm... you call it cover? Feb 03 16:23:58 upper thing Feb 03 16:24:16 yeah, a cover Feb 03 16:24:24 oh Feb 03 16:25:12 s/it's/its/ Feb 03 16:25:37 johnx: do you do 480x640 or 640x480 btw? Feb 03 16:25:37 omg Feb 03 16:25:48 * slonopotamus saw its price Feb 03 16:25:55 Jaffa: working desktop,yes, wireless, not so much yet, but I haven't gotten a chance to try with unsecured wifi Feb 03 16:25:56 Stskeeps, depends on landscape/laptop or tablet mode Feb 03 16:26:11 $200 here Feb 03 16:26:19 slonopotamus: you can almost get a n810 for that Feb 03 16:26:20 :P Feb 03 16:26:27 yep Feb 03 16:26:27 johnx: on zaurus, i meant Feb 03 16:26:51 r2d2rogers: cool Feb 03 16:26:53 Stskeeps, that's what I mean. it's a convertible tablet. right now I'm concentrating on 640x480 Feb 03 16:27:07 slonopotamus, how about this: http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/classified-archive/50417-fs-super-mini-usb-keyboard.html Feb 03 16:27:43 ~ping Feb 03 16:27:44 ~pong Feb 03 16:30:13 johnx, loading... gprs is not-so-fast Feb 03 16:32:49 for the record: n810 is $350 here Feb 03 16:33:23 well, if you get me $220 in advance and pay shipping I don't see why I couldn't order one for you from the US :) Feb 03 16:33:51 and then rightly call it a birthday present so as to sneak it by customs :D Feb 03 16:34:01 hehe Feb 03 16:34:05 cheater Feb 03 16:34:39 hello world Feb 03 16:34:43 could someone please help me? Feb 03 16:34:45 :) Feb 03 16:34:48 slonopotamus, meh. I have a bank account in the US and it is your birthday, right? Feb 03 16:35:00 johnx, but i'll think on your suggestion :) Feb 03 16:35:01 timeless, what do you need tested this time? :P Feb 03 16:35:13 'account setup wizard' Feb 03 16:35:23 i have a new localization package which is baking in my mer atm Feb 03 16:35:38 so for now you're free to use whatever localiation you have on your device Feb 03 16:35:43 johnx, hmm. right. so? Feb 03 16:36:00 slonopotamus: so it's not cheating, nor tax evasion or customs dodging Feb 03 16:36:12 timeless: enGB is all we need ;) Feb 03 16:36:23 milhouse++ Feb 03 16:36:45 qwerty: newly baked package set uploaded Feb 03 16:36:54 including nokia maps :) Feb 03 16:36:58 * slonopotamus doesn't see any relation between birthdays and bank accounts Feb 03 16:37:02 or navicore maps Feb 03 16:37:03 whatever it is Feb 03 16:37:07 Never used the map application :) Feb 03 16:37:10 happy birthday slonopotamus Feb 03 16:37:16 yeah, that's ok Feb 03 16:37:18 slonopotamus, errr...how am I cheating then? Feb 03 16:37:24 i'm more interested in Presence atm Feb 03 16:37:48 qwerty12, thanks :) Feb 03 16:40:30 johnx, i'll need to find a way to send you the money. and i don't have a spare $200 at the moment :) Feb 03 16:40:53 slonopotamus, neither do I :) Feb 03 16:41:16 johnx, possibly later, ok? Feb 03 16:41:50 slonopotamus, I'll have to figure out some logistics given that the bank account is in the US, but I'm not. :) But I'll give it a try Feb 03 16:42:22 johnx, hehe Feb 03 16:45:59 "Enter descriptive account name (e.g. 'home account1') and nickname (optional)" Feb 03 16:46:17 * timeless sighs Feb 03 16:46:19 what was that... 'not now, not later, not ever' Feb 03 16:46:26 heheh, /nick optional Feb 03 16:46:26 anyone wanna try to translate that into English? Feb 03 16:47:19 account name != nickname? Feb 03 16:47:21 "Enter descriptive account name, such as 'home account1' and, optionally, a nickname" Feb 03 16:47:39 s/r d/r a d/ Feb 03 16:47:39 johnx meant: "Enter a descriptive account name, such as 'home account1' and, optionally, a nickname" Feb 03 16:48:07 sold Feb 03 16:48:24 "Existing contacts will be copied from server." Feb 03 16:48:45 ...to a spam forum. Feb 03 16:48:54 timeless, your goal is to rewrite everything? Feb 03 16:49:15 "Please, would you be so kind and generous to let me know your magesty's personal account title and, but I'm not insist, your shorter name for relatives and friends" Feb 03 16:49:16 slonopotamus: i think i'll leave a few instances of "OK" unchanged Feb 03 16:49:54 timeless, "Your contacts list will be downloaded from the server." Feb 03 16:50:11 timeless, oh :) Feb 03 16:50:59 wazd, sold already Feb 03 16:51:57 and every pop-up should be led by "Can I ask you your majesty?" xD Feb 03 16:52:17 Yes, you may ask/ No, fool, get lost :) Feb 03 16:52:32 "Select task for %s" Feb 03 16:52:37 ther'es a dialog you get from contacts Feb 03 16:52:42 which says "Select task for timeless" Feb 03 16:53:19 Seems that ICQ banned Russia again) Feb 03 16:53:19 woot, that's formido porting finished :) Feb 03 16:53:40 timeless, and someone typed "Retranslate the whole GUI" so now you're stuck working on that? Feb 03 16:53:40 I have 12 contacts online) Feb 03 16:53:49 no Feb 03 16:53:58 someone asked me what i wanted fixed for fremantle Feb 03 16:54:02 wazd, that's good. more people will move to xmpp Feb 03 16:54:06 i said, lemme show you Feb 03 16:54:33 slonopotamus: well, that's kinda weird way to move people to xmpp :) Feb 03 16:54:55 wazd, but works :) Feb 03 16:55:06 wazd, wait. I've only ever heard of Russians using ICQ and now they're banning it? 0_o Feb 03 16:55:20 "Contact is unauthorized. Unable to guarantee that messages will be delivered." Feb 03 16:55:24 anyone know what that means? Feb 03 16:55:34 qwerty12: Russia is the most ICQ using country :D Feb 03 16:55:48 qwerty12: they ban 3rd party clients Feb 03 16:55:49 timeless: You've added them to your contact list, but they've not approved you yet Feb 03 16:55:57 wazd, ah :D Feb 03 16:56:13 ok, can you write that in the form for the app? Feb 03 16:56:29 Contact has not authorized you... ? Feb 03 16:56:35 qwerty12: And they ban only russian IPs Feb 03 16:56:43 almost everybody uses 3rd-party icq clients here Feb 03 16:56:51 "Contact has not authorized you. Messages might not be delivered." Feb 03 16:57:02 ok, dinner or something Feb 03 16:57:08 wazd, really stupid imho considering that Russia's probably one of the few countries where ICQ usage is common... Feb 03 16:57:18 timeless: "Contact has not yet authorised you: messages might not be delivered." Feb 03 16:57:19 qwerty12: yep) Feb 03 16:57:29 * wazd lost tablet's pen( Feb 03 16:57:45 i insist on Z in 'authorize' :) Feb 03 16:57:53 wazd, if you come to the UK and look around in Slough, you *may* be able to find the one I dropped somewhere... Feb 03 16:58:10 slonopotamus: Not for en_GB Feb 03 16:58:31 at least for en_RU :D Feb 03 16:59:45 en, en_GB, en_GB_LIVERPOOL... Feb 03 16:59:52 qwerty12: no, not that tablets, Wacom ones :) Feb 03 17:00:22 Well I tried to install Personal Menu on Mer and somehow I now have to regular application menus lol Feb 03 17:00:31 wazd, ah :). Ouch :(, are replacements (hoping that it doesn't come to that) expensive? Feb 03 17:00:38 known bug, AndrewFBlack :) Feb 03 17:00:44 lol ok Feb 03 17:00:55 slonopotamus, haha, accents are funny in this country... Feb 03 17:01:05 Personal Launcher is working Feb 03 17:01:05 qwerty12" I've lost somewhere in my room so it's a bit early to think bout the replacement)) Feb 03 17:01:34 hehe :) Feb 03 17:01:45 * wazd found it :) Feb 03 17:02:19 * slonopotamus hopes one day it will be possible to make phone call to any device so it starts ringing Feb 03 17:02:50 s/device/item/ Feb 03 17:04:35 * johnx would settle for triangulating by rfid Feb 03 17:16:01 johnx: you should vlc http://blip.tv/file/get/Rzrfreefr-TestingMerOSForMobileDevices837.ogv :) Feb 03 17:16:14 oh Feb 03 17:16:29 need to post photo of gentoo-on-n800 Feb 03 17:16:50 Stskeeps, thanks for reminder :) Feb 03 17:17:29 or even small booting movie Feb 03 17:17:39 hehe Feb 03 17:18:13 Stskeeps, watching... Feb 03 17:21:22 some bad usability problems but yeah :P Feb 03 17:31:13 hey Stskeeps. looks great :) Feb 03 17:31:39 johnx: rzr's video Feb 03 17:31:46 yeah Feb 03 17:36:24 so, who's going to use this http://www.vmware.com/company/news/releases/view_open_client.html to make a vmware viewer for Maemo? Feb 03 17:36:39 Comon don't be shy, tell us Feb 03 17:37:49 huh Feb 03 17:38:26 what kind of bandwidth are we talking here? and what's the advantage vs rdesktop or x11? Feb 03 17:38:50 johnx, advantage is I guess that you don't need to install a service on the guest, for example Feb 03 17:39:03 but this runs on the guest Feb 03 17:39:05 ie that you can use a msdos guest Feb 03 17:39:31 no looks like this is for connecting to a vmware workstation or server, no? (remotely) Feb 03 17:39:46 * Stskeeps ponders if it's in ubuntu already Feb 03 17:39:48 ah, I see Feb 03 17:40:08 well certainly looks like a nice feature for a tablet to me Feb 03 17:40:17 was thinking about 'guest' incorrectly Feb 03 17:40:33 ie, rdesktop might now correctly allow the resolution to be changed easily Feb 03 17:40:45 this client might or could instruct the vmware tools running on the guest to do just that Feb 03 17:40:55 why on earth does people not provide the debian source packages for their debs Feb 03 17:41:13 Stskeeps, hopefully the debian/ dir is in their scm Feb 03 17:41:16 Stskeeps, what about the software not being opensource? :) Feb 03 17:41:26 pvanhoof: it is open source Feb 03 17:41:33 Ah in that case, no idea Feb 03 17:42:43 ah, no scm Feb 03 17:43:00 maybe they're ashamed of their packaging job Feb 03 17:43:56 prolly Feb 03 17:44:52 not gonna bother packaging it :P Feb 03 17:45:09 Stskeeps: why do you think there's a bad usablity problems in rzr:s video? Feb 03 17:46:04 Meizirkki: oh, in Mer, like, it is appearant there's an odd issue with HAM's " is installed now" Feb 03 17:46:07 dialog Feb 03 17:46:11 or the Enter thing Feb 03 17:46:16 ah Feb 03 17:46:32 when i say usability i dont meant the user is an idiot, i mean the interface has issues :) Feb 03 17:46:50 ok Feb 03 17:46:53 This is a fremantle thing Feb 03 17:47:07 Dialogues with just an "OK" now popup modally and you have to know to press escape. Feb 03 17:47:20 ah Feb 03 17:47:30 Why doesn't fremantle have "ok" or "cancel" buttons anyway? Feb 03 17:47:35 touch.. :P Feb 03 17:47:41 we will know more soon i guess Feb 03 17:47:45 ask roope? Feb 03 17:48:17 roope: ping? Feb 03 17:48:38 I think we can assume there will be pushing us to use the hardware ok/cancel buttons :) Feb 03 17:49:49 Indeed, which might be "fun" for Mer porting Hildon to non-Nokia controlled hardware Feb 03 17:50:25 Meizirkki: can you in ~15 minutes update your dsme-tools and verify it will run wifi-powersave.py? if it works, take my 95% on python-object on sprint, make it 100% and make it background:LightGreen? Feb 03 17:50:28 easily solved: Mer hardware requirement: some physical buttons :) Feb 03 17:50:49 aw, but my mer table.. Feb 03 17:51:01 ;) Feb 03 17:51:13 save some non-display area on the side of the touchscreen :) Feb 03 17:51:16 Stskeep: i'll try Feb 03 17:51:26 draw some pictures on it, and map them as buttons Feb 03 17:51:29 hehe Feb 03 17:51:31 how can i verify wifi-powersave works? Feb 03 17:51:53 Meizirkki: well since you use wifi-radar it is a little difficult Feb 03 17:52:01 it uses knowledge of if NM is connected or not to power save Feb 03 17:52:49 hmm Feb 03 17:53:11 * Meiz_n810 checks if he still has nm installed Feb 03 17:53:27 oh! i didn't remove it :) Feb 03 17:53:28 Stskeeps: no go for secured WPA2 with passphrase on 770, it fails to connect on the wifi-radar, and the nm-applet just keeps going Feb 03 17:53:43 r2d2rogers: k Feb 03 17:53:59 r2d2rogers: apt-get install sysklogd and let's see what causes it Feb 03 17:54:28 wilco Feb 03 17:56:29 johnx: oh, we got jffs2 image booting today too Feb 03 17:56:39 hehe. they ask how long openoffice startups in gentoo. ask how long it builds :) Feb 03 17:56:42 nice. still with 2.6.21? Feb 03 17:56:50 yeah Feb 03 17:57:01 slonopotamus, ahaha. looks like you have your first torture test :D Feb 03 17:58:55 johnx, i have fully working cross-toolchain. i can use to build whatever you use your scratchbox. or i can take qemu and boot into it, just like you boot mer. but i don't have such need yet. Feb 03 17:59:56 slonopotamus, well then get cracking :) I'm curious about openoffice in gentoo as well Feb 03 18:01:07 slonopotamus, from experience, how long does a kernel build take on device? Feb 03 18:01:34 serious q cos im interested in debugging some stuff and do most grunt work on my 810 Feb 03 18:01:51 lcuk, i use stock kernel, i ddidn't build it. gcc 4.2 takes 8 hours. Feb 03 18:01:53 * lcuk has never compiled kernel anywhere Feb 03 18:02:33 once you have done the majority build though i gather it will work just like other things and only require rebuilding the changed elements Feb 03 18:02:59 ie after the initial 8 hours if i start tweaking a single file it might be done in a fraction of the time Feb 03 18:03:13 unless the changed elements force other parts to be rebuilt... Feb 03 18:03:44 lcuk, that's what ccache is good at Feb 03 18:03:56 not likely johnx, im not thinking structural at the moment, merely changes to the window boundaries in omapfb Feb 03 18:04:42 any idea how long it takes on a regular pc ? Feb 03 18:04:46 with scratchbox Feb 03 18:04:52 depends on the build :) Feb 03 18:05:15 but a normal build of Nokia's 2.6.21? less than an hour IIRC Feb 03 18:05:43 fair enough Feb 03 18:05:59 Stskeeps: i'm now running Mer, how can i see if wifi-powersave works? Feb 03 18:06:04 gimme kernel config and i'll run 'time make' Feb 03 18:06:17 slonopotamus, make nokia_2420_defconfig Feb 03 18:06:25 Meizirkki: ps? Feb 03 18:06:27 ps aux Feb 03 18:07:30 wtf is 2420? Feb 03 18:07:36 OMAP2420 Feb 03 18:07:39 omap cpu model Feb 03 18:08:06 Stskeeps: there's network-manager in the list Feb 03 18:08:50 ps ax (as root) has python wifi-powersave or the likes? Feb 03 18:08:57 ah Feb 03 18:09:29 1 hour on desktop you said? Feb 03 18:10:39 slonopotamus, depends on the desktop. I said 'less than' since I didn't remember the real time :) Feb 03 18:11:02 Stskeeps: yes there's "/usr/bin/python /usr/sbin/wifi_powersave.py Feb 03 18:11:06 " Feb 03 18:11:33 i edit wikipage now? Feb 03 18:12:26 johnx, real 1m18.782s for make nokia_2420_defconfig after make clean Feb 03 18:12:42 that just gets you the .config file Feb 03 18:12:51 Meizirkki: yeah, sure Feb 03 18:12:52 johnx, now 'make'? Feb 03 18:12:59 slonopotamus, yeah Feb 03 18:13:01 i know Feb 03 18:13:18 qwerty12: so you lost your charger or it's just not in nearby reach, btw? Feb 03 18:13:32 Stskeeps, my loox one? totally mashed up. Feb 03 18:14:15 alright Feb 03 18:14:19 mashed? :> Feb 03 18:14:36 /bin/sh: arm-linux-gcc: command not found Feb 03 18:14:46 it's broken Feb 03 18:14:46 Stskeeps, wires all messed up etc :) Feb 03 18:15:01 gimme another kernel :) Feb 03 18:15:02 ah Feb 03 18:16:16 slonopotamus, windows_7_4803 :P Feb 03 18:18:29 good programs know how to find gcc. maemo kernel couldn't. Feb 03 18:20:13 back Feb 03 18:21:29 hmm, after toying with the kinetic setting for mytube, something tells me that i may learn to like that kind of scrolling. that is, if i can access the settings to tweak the friction and speed... Feb 03 18:22:26 * Stskeeps tries to fix 4016 Feb 03 18:24:45 has anyone seen my images. they were there last night, but now they are missing Feb 03 18:25:44 hmmm Feb 03 18:27:36 straind`: johnx: at least my video was usefull Feb 03 18:27:42 -l Feb 03 18:27:54 yeah, it looked great. :D Feb 03 18:28:57 rzr: -straind`: too? Feb 03 18:30:49 :) Feb 03 18:37:03 * lcuk calms down Feb 03 18:37:11 i found my images, they were behind the fridge Feb 03 18:37:25 t_s_o, ive liked kinetic for years Feb 03 18:38:26 lcuk: i try to like it but more often then not i find that it keeps running away when i want it to stop, or not continue to scroll when i expect it to... Feb 03 18:38:27 whoa Feb 03 18:38:42 toshiba UI is a total crap) Feb 03 18:39:01 gfx for gfx ) Feb 03 18:39:18 wazd, what do you expect for a winmo shell? Feb 03 18:40:30 t_s_o, half the problem with kinetic is the update refresh screen Feb 03 18:40:30 johnx: It's not winmo problem Feb 03 18:40:35 to work well it has to be fluid Feb 03 18:41:01 johnx: it's like to say that world hunger is winmo problem)) Feb 03 18:41:12 johnx: or global warming :) Feb 03 18:41:47 wazd, how is 'winmo has a crap interface' not a winmo problem? Feb 03 18:41:49 lcuk: maybe so, but when i scroll without releasing the screen, making sure things have stopped moving, then release pressure, only to see things go flying of in some direction, there is something wrong... Feb 03 18:41:54 Look at the bright side though: WinCE (and WinMobile, I guess) has COMMAND.COM! Feb 03 18:42:06 johnx: I'm talking bout toshiba's GUI Feb 03 18:42:37 RST38h: does winmo has explorer.exe or something?) Feb 03 18:42:42 wazd, is there a winmo shell that does look nice in your opinion? Feb 03 18:42:46 wazd: oh yes Feb 03 18:43:01 wazd: ported from IE3 or IE4 Feb 03 18:43:07 RST38h: well, whats the problem to write another window manager instead? Feb 03 18:43:35 wazd: I do not think it has window manager Feb 03 18:43:40 johnx: no, and thats the problem of shell creators, not winmo itself Feb 03 18:43:53 wazd: it has a status screen that is its analog of windows shell Feb 03 18:43:57 RST38h: explorer.exe is WM :) Feb 03 18:44:05 wazd: ah, you mean THAT explorer Feb 03 18:44:11 wazd: no, no wm Feb 03 18:44:15 RST38h: not iexplore :)\ Feb 03 18:44:31 wazd: there is really no way to "fix" winmobile Feb 03 18:45:27 RST38h: first of all it should be rebuilt from scratch) Feb 03 18:45:47 RST38h: since it's really old OS in fact Feb 03 18:45:55 wazd: there is nothing to rebuild there. It is Win95 quickly ported to arm Feb 03 18:46:13 wazd, guess they're trying a pilot of that by running the next sidekick on bsd :) Feb 03 18:47:55 but still, I wonder why all WM managers are so crappy Feb 03 18:48:12 the best thing I saw was "magic button" :) Feb 03 18:48:12 hmm? on X11? Feb 03 18:48:26 ah, on winmo? Feb 03 18:48:33 johnx: yep Feb 03 18:49:22 t_s_o, thats a fault in the algo Feb 03 18:49:35 it should simply remember your deltas and degrade peacefully Feb 03 18:49:53 heh, then why does it show up again and again? Feb 03 18:50:04 with different apps? Feb 03 18:50:27 yep, both tear and mauku is driving me nuts with this, to some degree or other... Feb 03 18:50:46 * lcuk never has a problem with it Feb 03 18:51:00 though in mauku its a bit frisky Feb 03 18:51:02 mytube and webkit-eal (for lack of a better name) is thankfully tweakable, so that i can set things to my liking Feb 03 18:51:21 well it could be that my screen is getting worn Feb 03 18:51:23 in all the stuff in liqbase i made sure it worked as expected Feb 03 18:51:35 ive got a worse screen than anyone Feb 03 18:51:47 t_s_o, the 'friction' is too low in tear IMHO Feb 03 18:51:49 on one of my devices it doesnt respond to finger in the middle Feb 03 18:52:07 johnx: i may agree with you there Feb 03 18:52:47 * lcuk still has to put kinetic into liqbase Feb 03 18:52:51 tho the acceleration is somewhat nuts to. when things come to a complete stop and i release, it goes of like i did a full screen flick Feb 03 18:53:20 is this with finger or stylus? Feb 03 18:53:59 both, but mostly i use stylus. and with finger its mostly the side of a nail as i cant get myself to drag something around by pushing the surface of a finger against the screen Feb 03 18:54:35 i agree, finger on these screens feels wrong Feb 03 18:54:47 for pushing buttons its ok Feb 03 18:54:53 if they would be the right size that is Feb 03 18:55:20 you are likely just falling for the cpu being too busy and getting a big mouse coords jump or something Feb 03 18:55:51 should not be, as the cpu applet shows no load at all, and it happens all to often for that, imo Feb 03 18:56:44 * johnx confirms Feb 03 18:56:46 odd then, all i can say is i made sure kinetic works as expected in liqbase :) Feb 03 18:56:53 something is up with the acceleration Feb 03 18:57:28 maybe it's a different formula than you use lcuk.. Feb 03 18:57:44 yeah as i said at the start, its the algo Feb 03 18:58:51 ugh, a unrelated issue with mauku, that a double tap opens the post/thread. that in combo with kinetic scrolling results in me opening way to many needless windows... Feb 03 18:59:15 same with accidentally clicking links/banners in tear :/ Feb 03 18:59:30 and having urls only available via the long-tap/gesture do not help... Feb 03 19:00:41 still, i guess there is a limit as its designed for jaiku first, with twitter support added as a near after thought Feb 03 19:02:56 which version of mauku are you on Feb 03 19:03:01 0.5.6? Feb 03 19:04:38 yeo Feb 03 19:04:41 yep Feb 03 19:04:50 t_s_o: agreed with the accidental clicking in mauku - very annoying Feb 03 19:05:21 yes, testing the scrolling i keep opening windows Feb 03 19:05:48 but i cant get the random scrolling bug no matter how much i abuse it Feb 03 19:06:02 (it has bugs and is jerky but thats different) Feb 03 19:06:12 * RST38h has seen random scrolling in MediaBox btw Feb 03 19:06:45 It looks like if the device is under heavy load, it skips some drag events and interprets whatever it reads as a huge (negative?) drag Feb 03 19:06:55 yeah RST38h my thoughts Feb 03 19:06:55 i seem to get it mostly when im scrolling back up, could be something about the time between stopping and releasing, meaning the code reads it as a flick Feb 03 19:06:56 So it starts frantically scrolling things Feb 03 19:07:05 Is this what you are seeing? Feb 03 19:07:34 t_s_o, there is an issue where you do not receive the final mouse up so it connects with the previous stroke giving a massive jump in lines Feb 03 19:07:49 different apps have had it at different times, but its most noticable in painting apps Feb 03 19:11:19 to bad that webkit-eal have lost steam Feb 03 19:11:58 Indeed, I use it as my main browser now. Feb 03 19:12:53 it wasn't initially done by pronvit, someone else may pick it up like he did from collabora :) Feb 03 19:13:26 hmm... anybody know of any issues with the g++ in scratchbox and -O2? I've got a program that segfaults in very weird places whith -O2, but works just fine with -O0 Feb 03 19:14:53 qwerty12_N800: you got a point there, the code was released iirc, so its mostly a matter of getting interest. hell, if one can get it to work with the bundyo lib then i suspect it would really benefit, as it seems there are shared issues (osk, downloads and so on) Feb 03 19:15:10 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/webkit-eal/ Feb 03 19:15:27 t_s_o, if browser ui was oss it would gain interest outside maemo prolly Feb 03 19:16:02 maybe Feb 03 19:16:13 well at least the ubuntu mobile people would be interested Feb 03 19:16:25 it would at least make people play around more with alternate solutions to some things. like say embedded media ;) Feb 03 19:17:42 mmm...that would be *really* nice Feb 03 19:22:12 hmm, poking around that svn shows up a empty webkit-mifki dir... Feb 03 19:31:59 ok, I've already contacted Foreca, weather.com and Ya.Weather Feb 03 19:32:25 Does anybody knows/wants any other descent weather source? Feb 03 19:34:20 depends on what part of the world your interested in ;) Feb 03 19:35:01 http://93.157.1.37/~marijn/openttd_maemo.png <-- yay :) even without compiler optimizations it runs quite well... Feb 03 19:35:28 t_s_o: totaly any part) Feb 03 19:35:39 http://www.yr.no/english/1.2025949 Feb 03 19:36:14 Mek, the widgets look a bit small, but it looks very nice :) Feb 03 19:36:15 Mek: well, it's about a year old port or something :) Feb 03 19:36:55 wazd: hmm? what is? this is the most recent release of openttd... Feb 03 19:37:02 wazd: Add Gismeteo, for the full measure Feb 03 19:37:36 RST38h: Yep, I thought to write to them. In fact they have XML output but there's no icon number somehow Feb 03 19:37:40 wazd: And probably Wundergound and NOAA Feb 03 19:37:54 RST38h: Wunderground is free to use already Feb 03 19:38:09 RST38h: what's NOAA? Feb 03 19:38:29 Mek: Well, I played it year ago on n800 :) Feb 03 19:38:46 wazd: US version of Oceanography Institute Feb 03 19:39:05 wazd: Government agency dealing with oceans, maritime weather and geography Feb 03 19:39:18 RST38h: oh Feb 03 19:39:20 wazd: they do weather forecasts too Feb 03 19:39:35 t_s_o: thatks, I'll contact them Feb 03 19:39:58 wazd: hmm.. okay; from where did you get it? Feb 03 19:40:26 (and I played it a couple of years ago on my neo 1973 as well :P) Feb 03 19:40:46 Mek: well, it was available for OS2006 I think Feb 03 19:41:16 http://openttd.toimii.net/maemo/maemo-openttd.jpg Feb 03 19:41:19 i ran openttd on os2008 too Feb 03 19:41:48 ah, those are a lot older versions; I guess they didn't trigger the gcc bug I'm fightning now :) Feb 03 19:43:30 Gismeteo has such an USSResque logo btw :) Feb 03 19:43:35 "sovok" xD Feb 03 19:44:43 In Soviet Russia, weather data owns you Feb 03 19:46:02 wazd: Hey, don't touch 'em, they just bought an Itanium cluster from us! Feb 03 19:46:32 qwerty12_N800: In Soviet Russia, weather forecasts you xD Feb 03 19:46:49 RST38h: Why would they need it :) Feb 03 19:46:52 hehe :D Feb 03 19:47:13 RST38h: their forecasts are coming from their italanium noses :) Feb 03 19:48:23 wazd: Well, Gidrometcenter apparently computes its own weather Feb 03 19:48:41 wazd: Lots of it, judging from their computational requirements =) Feb 03 19:49:21 RST38h: yeah-yeah, "and today we'll have... well... how about... -5!" :) Feb 03 19:50:02 RST38h: they just have powerful random number generator :) Feb 03 19:53:36 wazd: They are worse than weather.com, but not by much Feb 03 19:54:18 Besides, maybe they are good at predicting weather for some really obscure piece of tundra nobody cares about? =) Feb 03 19:55:52 I'm going to bug the new h-a-m guy to see if we can't get something productive going. Feb 03 19:56:26 "the new"? Feb 03 19:56:29 no more m-vo or? Feb 03 19:56:46 mmm...ham Feb 03 19:56:50 Stskeeps, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3286 Feb 03 19:57:41 aw, m-vo was a good upstream Feb 03 19:57:56 that's because he was an engineer Feb 03 19:58:16 RST38h: I can't find if Gismeteo can give any free XML info Feb 03 19:58:29 RST38h: they have just paid options Feb 03 20:03:06 what the heck/ why does homeip require a pinned version of libhildonfm2? Feb 03 20:03:36 wazd: Why not scrub their html? Feb 03 20:03:58 Stskeeps, yeah, I agree, and it leaves me a lot less optimistic about making h-a-m cool. :\ Feb 03 20:04:22 timeless: Depends: hildon-desktop-python-loader, python2.5-hildondesktop, python2.5-hildon, python2.5-gobject, python2.5-dbus, python2.5-osso, python2.5-cairo, python2.5-gtk2 Feb 03 20:04:38 hrm Feb 03 20:04:43 whatversion is this? Feb 03 20:05:03 Can't install homeip; Feb 03 20:05:12 it needs: libhildonfm2 (= 1:2.0.2) Feb 03 20:05:22 libhildonwm0 (= 1:2.0.10-1) Feb 03 20:05:23 timeless: the one in mer repository Feb 03 20:05:35 libhildondesktop0 (= 1:2.0.10-1) Feb 03 20:05:42 Somebody go beat Khertan up with this stick. Feb 03 20:05:44 that might be the python bindings Feb 03 20:05:44 this is my "diablo"(ish) n800 Feb 03 20:05:50 * GeneralAntilles holds up a stick. Feb 03 20:06:03 yeah, it's probably the bindings Feb 03 20:07:06 timeless: and don't get started on pymaemo.. Feb 03 20:07:07 :P Feb 03 20:07:17 that thing is curiously odd occasionally Feb 03 20:07:17 :P Feb 03 20:07:19 aww, i can't install Nokia Chat either Feb 03 20:07:58 does Personal Menu install on Mer? Feb 03 20:08:45 AFB claimed s Feb 03 20:08:45 o Feb 03 20:08:52 i thought it didn't Feb 03 20:09:19 should work now there is a control panel Feb 03 20:09:42 true Feb 03 20:11:06 personal menu discriminates against n800 users who have broken touchscreens :( Feb 03 20:11:48 we still need that broken screen display watchdog message.. Feb 03 20:12:12 this n800's touch screen will stop working for a while Feb 03 20:12:20 (i think it starts working after you unlock the screen) Feb 03 20:12:53 timeless, mine does that from time to time :/ Feb 03 20:13:14 because the n800 has a hardware arrow key, it shouldn't be much of a problem Feb 03 20:13:20 I used to have touchscreen problems. I still think it was heat related though Feb 03 20:13:23 .. oh ffs¤" Feb 03 20:13:25 but most people don't write proper arrow key support Feb 03 20:13:28 Personal Menu isn't working on Mer but Personal Launcher is Feb 03 20:13:46 what's the difference? Feb 03 20:13:47 now that i have gconf2-common going, and libosso-gnomevfs-extra, .. Feb 03 20:13:53 NOW it complains about libvte9 Feb 03 20:13:56 *sigh* Feb 03 20:14:03 Couldn't install Personal Menu [ Close ] Feb 03 20:14:04 * timeless sighs Feb 03 20:14:04 * Stskeeps ignores gnome. Feb 03 20:14:21 timeless, Personal Menu is a menu on the side Personal Launcher is a menu on desktop with icons Feb 03 20:14:36 i wanted a plugin Feb 03 20:14:43 * timeless is tired of this really clever string Feb 03 20:14:54 "Two plug-ins required" Feb 03 20:15:03 remind me to thwap the author of that one Feb 03 20:18:32 * timeless frowns Feb 03 20:18:48 It looks like this is your first time running [wdgtbdyes] Feb 03 20:19:06 Maemo Mapper. Press OK to view the the help Feb 03 20:19:42 pages. Otherwise, press Cancel to continue. [ wdgtbdno] Feb 03 20:19:54 does maemo mapper have a bugzilla product? Feb 03 20:20:06 timeless, not yet. Feb 03 20:20:16 it's getting one now Feb 03 20:20:23 Hehe Feb 03 20:20:32 Well, I dunno if gnuite will actually look at it. . . . Feb 03 20:20:41 not my problem Feb 03 20:21:22 It is mine, though. :P Feb 03 20:21:39 http://mxr.maemo.org/garage-all/source/maemo-mapper/ Feb 03 20:21:47 doesn't look like there's much of a web site Feb 03 20:22:12 http://gnuite.com/nokia770/maemo-mapper/ Feb 03 20:25:48 Product is now open for new bugs. Feb 03 20:26:24 lol Feb 03 20:26:30 I'll send a heads-up to gnuite. . . . Feb 03 20:26:56 Indian $10 laptop will cost $20. Feb 03 20:27:05 20? not 100? Feb 03 20:28:03 what would be the best way to build a deb from python files? Feb 03 20:29:40 des^^: py2deb, at a guess Feb 03 20:29:42 OK, sent gnuite the heads up. Feb 03 20:30:40 hmpf Feb 03 20:30:51 jaffa: he has a bugzilla account Feb 03 20:30:56 Bug 4064 has been added to the database Feb 03 20:31:00 I tried pypackager and it fails on me :s Feb 03 20:31:26 timeless: cool Feb 03 20:35:32 RST38h: I found that Gismeteo can give me XML weather! Feb 03 20:35:38 RST38h: For one day Feb 03 20:37:27 ok, so um Feb 03 20:37:44 can someone tell me why i'm getting those ugly buttons from Maemo Mapper in Mer 0.7? Feb 03 20:38:07 which? Feb 03 20:38:10 screenshot Feb 03 20:38:37 where do screen shots go? :) Feb 03 20:38:49 ~/MyDocs/.images if from load-applet Feb 03 20:39:02 * timeless launches fennec to load that directory Feb 03 20:39:19 wazd: that's already something... Feb 03 20:39:27 * RST38h wonders if it can be hacked =) Feb 03 20:39:48 wow! think I finally have a clean package for xfbdev for zaurus mer. now to see if it builds Feb 03 20:39:55 nothing is ever simple... Feb 03 20:40:02 it will have another name than -fbdev, right? Feb 03 20:40:07 can canola show pictures? Feb 03 20:40:20 RST38h: I think to screw gismeteo, if Yandex will agree to work with us Feb 03 20:40:29 Stskeeps, I think xserver-kdrive-xfbdev sounds about right Feb 03 20:40:37 k Feb 03 20:41:05 * aquatix downloads mer 0.7, finally Feb 03 20:41:06 that's at least ok for the interim, and the ubuntu guys can name it whatever they want if this goes up to them Feb 03 20:41:29 timeless: yes Feb 03 20:41:48 yes? Feb 03 20:41:56 oh, re canola? Feb 03 20:42:16 fennec is almost loaded.. Feb 03 20:43:41 RST38h: and more than that, I've found: http://meteoinfo.ru/xml-export Feb 03 20:43:49 mmm...that QuickClip statusbar applet looks delicious Feb 03 20:45:01 timeless: yeah, re canola :) Feb 03 20:45:08 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/cheesehildon.png Feb 03 20:45:11 *G* @ ALMOST Feb 03 20:45:14 oops Feb 03 20:45:26 excuse the caps Feb 03 20:45:41 Stskeeps, awesome! (except for missing the camera) Feb 03 20:45:43 Stskeeps: nice Feb 03 20:46:21 johnx: vmdk so :P Feb 03 20:46:33 aaah. want me to test a deb on my n800? Feb 03 20:46:56 it's sitting idle while I package for my z :) Feb 03 20:47:18 johnx: wait for armel build, will take a while Feb 03 20:47:20 libhildon rebuild Feb 03 20:47:36 ah, is cheese building natively? Feb 03 20:47:58 the good news about xfbdev is that it builds in mer SDK nicely :D Feb 03 20:48:32 johnx: part of ubuntu Feb 03 20:49:17 hildonized cheese is part of ubuntu? cool! Feb 03 20:50:12 * aquatix loves using application manager in a VM, it's damn fast Feb 03 20:50:44 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-contacts.png Feb 03 20:50:49 contacts-hildon Feb 03 20:51:09 what is *that*? Feb 03 20:51:13 that's contacts from pimlico? Feb 03 20:51:20 that looks *usable* Feb 03 20:51:23 terrifying Feb 03 20:51:27 haha Feb 03 20:51:40 aquatix: no clue, contacts-hildon Feb 03 20:51:47 from ubuntu? Feb 03 20:51:49 http://www.pimlico-project.org/contacts.html Feb 03 20:52:11 there's also a nice agenda and notes thingee in there Feb 03 20:52:24 all running on evolution data server Feb 03 20:52:37 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-tasks.png Feb 03 20:52:51 dates-hildon crashes for some reason Feb 03 20:53:00 Are these from Nokia? Feb 03 20:53:12 GeneralAntilles, that would be a negative, General sir. Feb 03 20:53:37 maybe you were right about not waiting for Nokia to do PIM :) Feb 03 20:53:55 meh, the pop-over "advanced-backlight successfully installed" won't disappear Feb 03 20:54:11 GeneralAntilles: pimlico stuff Feb 03 20:54:15 aquatix: click it Feb 03 20:54:27 Stskeeps: ah :) Feb 03 20:55:43 aquatix: press Feb 03 20:55:54 clicking it helped Feb 03 20:56:04 would be nice if it disappeared itself Feb 03 20:56:10 yeah.. Feb 03 20:56:13 well, oddities Feb 03 20:56:31 hm, why doesn't accept xchat my commands :/ Feb 03 20:57:00 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/dates-hildon.png Feb 03 20:57:40 yay Feb 03 20:58:01 Stskeeps, those are just vanilla installs from ubuntu? Feb 03 20:58:05 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/dates-hildon2.png Feb 03 20:58:11 johnx: yup. dates is a bit unstable Feb 03 20:58:19 dates-hildon looks remotely usable Feb 03 20:59:59 damn, reading "license agreements" is so boring( Feb 03 21:00:49 how do I get to the "allow Access" window behind the Network Connection one? Feb 03 21:01:13 r2d2rogers: hmm, gnome-keyring? i thought i had killed that quite well Feb 03 21:01:21 just click the allow access button Feb 03 21:01:29 I can't... Feb 03 21:01:45 the network connections settings box is in front of it Feb 03 21:01:56 mm Feb 03 21:02:02 r2d2rogers: 0.7 raw image? Feb 03 21:02:08 nope Feb 03 21:02:13 have run updates Feb 03 21:02:13 ah, well thats why then Feb 03 21:02:13 :P Feb 03 21:02:15 ;) Feb 03 21:02:42 Stskeeps, are those actually Pimlico? Feb 03 21:03:00 killed it Feb 03 21:03:01 GeneralAntilles: i have no idea where they come from Feb 03 21:03:06 and then hit always allow Feb 03 21:03:11 they're from ubuntu mobile i think Feb 03 21:03:15 lol Feb 03 21:03:48 yeah, they're o-hand/pimlico I think Feb 03 21:05:17 think with a bit of adjustment they'd be good candidates for inclusion into a std image :P Feb 03 21:05:54 yes Feb 03 21:07:41 it'd be nice if they where maintained again Feb 03 21:08:12 hopefully the'll get some love as part of intel's efforts or ubuntu mobile's Feb 03 21:09:45 hey, if i enable bluetooth for vmware, will it work w/ mer? :) Feb 03 21:10:09 johnx: that'd be great Feb 03 21:10:17 timeless: usb stick? :P Feb 03 21:10:18 timeless: try it? ;) Feb 03 21:10:27 timeless, I installed bluez-gnome and bluetooth worked on my n800 :) Feb 03 21:11:03 nah, laptop bluetooth Feb 03 21:11:26 it doesn't look like usb media works :( Feb 03 21:11:54 i took my n800 and blugged it into my laptop Feb 03 21:12:10 g_file_storage isn't loaded likely Feb 03 21:12:24 and then shared to my vmware Feb 03 21:12:51 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-osmo.png Feb 03 21:13:24 it might help being x600 though Feb 03 21:13:39 x600? Feb 03 21:14:34 running at 800x600 vs 800x480 Feb 03 21:14:43 they should make it use a hildontoolbar Feb 03 21:17:22 * timelE61i sighs Feb 03 21:17:22 ghehe, changing the brightness crashed mer's X in virtualbox Feb 03 21:17:32 yeah :P Feb 03 21:17:33 my laptop's beeping at me Feb 03 21:17:41 also, the volume icon is hexaduplicated or something Feb 03 21:17:51 timelE61i, it's telling you it loves you :) Feb 03 21:18:08 `Feeeeed meeee, FEEEEED meeeee!' Feb 03 21:25:41 Aaaargh Feb 03 21:25:42 http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/02/iphone-vs-winmo.jpg Feb 03 21:25:45 Enjoy Feb 03 21:26:34 RST38h, yeah, that's a thrift sale I'd love to visit :) Feb 03 21:26:36 hahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah *coughspit* Feb 03 21:28:53 * timelE61i sighs Feb 03 21:29:08 laptop is too busy Feb 03 21:29:58 ok Feb 03 21:30:16 Could someone open connectivity cpl's second tab Feb 03 21:30:51 And explain it? Feb 03 21:45:25 planet-maemo not working? Feb 03 21:46:03 milos_: Works for me? Feb 03 21:46:05 * johnx sleeps Feb 03 21:49:13 X-Fade, when I enter this http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ I get this error http://pastebin.com/d33f83f47 Feb 03 21:49:45 is that correct url? Feb 03 21:50:32 milos_: Hmm weird. Let me flush the cache to see if that fixes it for you. Feb 03 21:51:13 milos_: Can you refresh? Feb 03 21:52:17 X-Fade, it started working now after refresh. Feb 03 21:53:18 X-Fade, interesting because I tried before to refresh and it didn't worked Feb 03 21:53:33 milos_: No, I flushed the server cache.. Feb 03 21:53:37 ok Feb 03 21:53:44 thnx :) Feb 03 21:54:01 milos_: Something for me to debug tomorrow :( Feb 03 21:55:12 hrm Feb 03 21:55:22 Where does the app name come from? Feb 03 21:55:47 timelE61i: desktop file? Feb 03 21:57:55 Really? Yuck Feb 03 21:59:22 Name=maps_ap_name Feb 03 22:14:10 hello Feb 03 22:21:36 timelE61i: is it the l33t day? Feb 03 22:24:39 zeenix? Feb 03 22:24:42 Call speed Feb 03 22:24:59 Call type: [Normal,High speed] Feb 03 22:25:23 Modem type: [Analog, ISDN v.110, ISDN v.120] Feb 03 22:25:38 Maximum data speed: [9600 bps, 14400 bps] Feb 03 22:26:04 is "Call speed" really a good descriptor for those 3 choice fields? :( Feb 03 22:26:34 * timeless tentatively changes it to 'Connection' Feb 03 22:26:58 or 'Connect'? Feb 03 22:27:04 Connection Feb 03 22:27:57 I'm trying to check for updates for the first time after updating the firmware, and it seem to stop half way through the check. Is this normal? Feb 03 22:28:24 cgardner: how many repos do you have? Feb 03 22:28:29 err 'catalogs' Feb 03 22:29:07 timeless: 4 Feb 03 22:29:52 wooot Feb 03 22:29:59 Global Positioning System fits! Feb 03 22:32:58 timeless: I disabled all of them, and enabled them one at a time and it seems to work now. I don't know what the problem was. Feb 03 22:38:47 Are there any generally awesome must have apps? Feb 03 22:40:58 ~musthaves Feb 03 22:41:01 ~musthave Feb 03 22:41:02 from memory, musthave is Maemo Mapper, FBReader, Vagalume, Canola, Numpty Physics, X-Chat, Evince, ScummVM, MyTube, MPlayer, Advanced Backlight, USBControl, Large Statusbar Clock, Transmission and much more. Also see http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects Feb 03 22:41:08 Thanks Feb 03 22:43:59 infobot, where's OMWeather, bastard?) Feb 03 22:44:31 ~burn himslelf Feb 03 22:44:33 * infobot pours gasoline all over himslelf, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Feb 03 22:44:35 lol Feb 03 22:44:38 hehe Feb 03 22:46:39 ok, Yahoo weather is in list :) Anybody happy?) Feb 03 22:47:23 wazd: what about bbc.co.uk :) Feb 03 22:49:00 * FireFox compiles a fuew more packages for the ubuntu repo to make it complete - adding kernel-diablo, xorg, and cx3110x-module packages Feb 03 22:49:53 Jaffa: I'll try Feb 03 22:52:09 I really wonder why some providers don't want to be represented to people, without banner or with it, they just don't want Feb 03 22:52:47 Is that some kind of secret market strategy "Let's just disappear" Feb 03 22:54:20 http://feeds.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/rss/5day/world/4567.xml <- cool Feb 03 22:55:01 BBC gooood Feb 03 22:55:14 http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/ in particular is a treasure trove Feb 03 22:55:24 Now I should write a letter to their support and ask them if they don't mind to be used by friendly non-commercial open-source informant Feb 03 22:56:49 I really don't see any problem in using this, but maybe they are paranoid or something Feb 03 22:57:38 So hard to do everything legal) Feb 03 23:00:29 oh my Feb 03 23:00:34 I'm fucking genius Feb 03 23:01:04 What if OMWeather can be like "emulator" and weather feeds are like ROM's Feb 03 23:01:30 wazd, does NOAA provide a free feed? Feb 03 23:02:05 GeneralAntilles: well, in fact all sites provide free feed in some way Feb 03 23:02:21 GeneralAntilles: but they all have some strange article in LA Feb 03 23:02:46 You mean we should tell everyone they have to own one to extract the feed, but it's really an open secret that you can download them and play all the old games^H^H^H^H^H weather for free? Feb 03 23:03:00 The whole "karma will never work" view is way too defeatist for my tastes. Feb 03 23:03:18 GeneralAntilles: like "you can't show, bla-bla-bla this information without our permision" Feb 03 23:03:48 We should try to add IRC to the karma calculation before the next election. Feb 03 23:04:55 benson: well, we just leave all responsibility to "feed-authors" and include in OMWeather itself pnly approved feeds Feb 03 23:05:22 benson: and you will be able to add other feeds easily :) Feb 03 23:05:30 GeneralAntilles: there are a few karma bugs which should be prioritised in the next sprint; that could be one too. Are you chairing tomorrow's meeting? Feb 03 23:06:03 Ah, like Maemo Mapper. "Click the button to download repositories that may or may not be legal for you to use!" Feb 03 23:06:39 benson: yeah, that sort of stuff :) Feb 03 23:07:23 Jaffa, probably. Feb 03 23:07:24 benson: but I'd prefer to have them all legaly ofcourse :) Feb 03 23:07:48 Unless somebody else really has a hankerin' to get in on that action. ;) Feb 03 23:08:31 GeneralAntilles: I'll be eating my lunch, trying to actually have a lunchbreak and participate. Feb 03 23:09:08 Annoyingly, there's no wireless at work now. Although, I could take my laptop to the breakout area and use my phone. Pricey & laggy, tho' Feb 03 23:10:04 Surprisingly, Foreca has absolutely free RSS/XML feed :) Feb 03 23:10:11 * Jaffa beds, disheartedly Feb 03 23:10:19 Jaffa: gnite Feb 03 23:10:37 Goddamnit Feb 03 23:10:52 Of course the text file with all the #maemo/#maemo-meeting topics disappears the day I actually need it. . . . Feb 03 23:14:04 emergency question: is there an undelete in the file manager (OS2008 Diablo)? :( Feb 03 23:14:20 not really Feb 03 23:14:27 ouch :( Feb 03 23:14:31 in most cases the data is probably still around Feb 03 23:14:40 but reaching it is terribly painful Feb 03 23:15:11 oh it was on the external memory card though Feb 03 23:15:27 in that case, you have choices Feb 03 23:15:48 you can find a linux tool, or a windows tool and usb mount it Feb 03 23:16:00 FAT's easy to undelete from; take it to a dos machine. Feb 03 23:16:02 i personally wouldn't try to use Maemo to do the recovery Feb 03 23:16:18 ,me would use a windows or dos tool Feb 03 23:16:32 * Jucato tries and crosses fingers Feb 03 23:16:37 thanks Feb 03 23:17:27 though a follow-up question: why isn't there some Trash management? or will there be or is there a way to get that? Feb 03 23:17:46 * benson hates it when delete doesn't delete. Feb 03 23:18:08 But it's a good question, most DEs do that. Feb 03 23:18:54 I don't know why Maemo doesn't; if it really irks you, go vote on/file a bug. :P Feb 03 23:19:12 some also have the option to bypass the Trash for people who hate it when delete doesn't delete ;) Feb 03 23:19:24 well to be honest, it only hit me now :P Feb 03 23:19:36 Something tells me Maemo wouldn't, but yes. The good ones do. Feb 03 23:20:48 GeneralAntilles: solca: Feb 03 23:20:48 GeneralAntilles: solca: @Maemo councils: Ask Nokia to put 1 day all Linux engineers in a coding sprint to fix support for 770/N8x0 in recent kernels, that would be a good service to the community IMO. Feb 03 23:21:11 eh? Feb 03 23:21:20 imagine that nokia had 100 |linux engineers" Feb 03 23:21:24 heheh. Feb 03 23:21:29 imagine 98 of them have nothing to do w/ kernel Feb 03 23:21:38 exactly. Feb 03 23:21:39 how do you want to arrange these engineers in your 1 day? Feb 03 23:21:47 note: these numbers are totally random Feb 03 23:22:05 Also, coordination between 100 people on a 1-day project. Feb 03 23:22:05 but probably not disproportionate Feb 03 23:22:11 benson: that too Feb 03 23:22:12 ROFL Feb 03 23:23:27 BTW, that was a quote from solca; afraid that was unclear... Feb 03 23:23:58 Accidentally pasted it with a newline, and so couldn't edit it. Feb 03 23:24:54 I'm in favor of having 1 Nokia engineer a day force benson to code up the support in 100 days. :P Feb 03 23:25:08 anyone here ever used image viewer to do anything other than "view" images? Feb 03 23:25:38 Ummm... I think it does resizing/cropping? I think I've done that once. Feb 03 23:25:53 did it work? Feb 03 23:26:00 But I don't use it much for viewing them, either. Quiver for that. Feb 03 23:26:05 Yes, I think so. Feb 03 23:26:15 if you select crop Feb 03 23:26:19 there's a toolbar at the bottom Feb 03 23:26:34 * benson opens image viewer Feb 03 23:26:38 would you expect it to say "Crop:" [....|v] or "Crop" [....|v] Feb 03 23:27:27 No. Feb 03 23:27:40 I'd expect: "Ratio:" Feb 03 23:27:51 ok Feb 03 23:28:03 But "Crop:" would be the better of those two. Feb 03 23:28:21 Rule of thumb: when in doubt, change it. Feb 03 23:28:29 * timeless nods Feb 03 23:28:31 Nokia didn't get it right. Feb 03 23:28:36 i'll try ratio: Feb 03 23:28:51 w/ that, i can drop 'ratio' from Default and |Screen Feb 03 23:29:45 ok, next Feb 03 23:29:59 what does 'Default ratio' actually mean? Feb 03 23:30:13 The same ratio as the image has. Feb 03 23:30:31 "keep ratio"? Feb 03 23:30:34 * timeless doesn't think so Feb 03 23:30:39 play w/ them a bit Feb 03 23:30:59 i think it actually means '(none)' Feb 03 23:31:00 No, unlocked. Feb 03 23:31:07 Yes. Feb 03 23:31:27 so, i should try 'Keep ratio:' Feb 03 23:31:44 or 'Fix ratio:' ? Feb 03 23:31:53 * timeless isn't sure 'Fix' would be understood Feb 03 23:32:07 "Force ratio:"? Feb 03 23:32:21 benson, fix your email client. :P Plain text is better. Feb 03 23:33:07 * timeless ponders Feb 03 23:33:11 Force ratio: (none) Feb 03 23:33:14 doesn't seem to work Feb 03 23:33:20 GeneralAntilles: Is it wrecking things, or did I just apply formatting? Feb 03 23:33:30 Fixed radio: ? Feb 03 23:33:35 benson, the quoting is really weird. Feb 03 23:34:52 * benson looks to see what's up with gmail and using plaintext for specific messages... Feb 03 23:41:01 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, I can use plaintext for list email. Would you mind forwarding me one of my emails that came through? I'm curious how exactly they're getting mangled. Feb 03 23:41:17 benson, let me grab a screenshoot Feb 03 23:42:56 benson, http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/bensons-email.jpg Feb 03 23:43:11 Thx Feb 03 23:44:00 * timeless got a notification icon in the top left corner for a moment Feb 03 23:45:14 gnuton: are you aware that the qt in extras-devel is built without -fvisibility=hidden support? (while it would work just fine with that support) Feb 03 23:46:02 gnuton: (I fixed it for me locally by adding an explicit -reduce-exports parameters to qt's configure call) Feb 03 23:47:03 Mek: hei :D Feb 03 23:47:16 hi :) Feb 03 23:47:40 Mek: I know that it's built without -fvisibility=hidden Feb 03 23:48:25 is that intentional? Feb 03 23:48:30 no Feb 03 23:49:13 but I've to check what -reduce-exports does Feb 03 23:49:29 actually does Feb 03 23:49:44 Mek: why do you need it? Feb 03 23:51:12 gnuton: otherwise I have to manually disable -fvisibility=hidden support in everything using qt as well, because when code is compiled against a qt without support for it QT_EXPORT (and similar macros) are defined as no-ops... Feb 03 23:51:26 (and thus I end up with libraries with only hidden symbols) Feb 03 23:53:39 okay Feb 04 00:04:21 that karma issue sure raises some voices ;- Feb 04 00:05:56 Hi, angry man. :P Feb 04 00:06:43 angry? Feb 04 00:06:52 Who says I'm angry? Feb 04 00:06:59 crashanddie: "rawr karma" Feb 04 00:07:13 yeah, I'm a bit touchy on the subject Feb 04 00:07:20 Your response to Jaffa certainly didn't SOUND calm to me. ;) Feb 04 00:07:48 hey I voted for the guy, I'd better keep him in line with my opinions :P Feb 04 00:08:30 plus, unless you're blind and have a screen reader, my emails don't sound anything to anyone Feb 04 00:09:00 Just, a hint, though, the angry approach tends to bias people against your position, not attract them to it. :) Feb 04 00:09:11 * lcuk could hear the beasty boys "you gotta fight" Feb 04 00:09:12 I'm not angry Feb 04 00:09:40 "for your right" Feb 04 00:09:47 "to parrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrty" Feb 04 00:09:48 ahem Feb 04 00:10:04 just because I don't take (have?) the time to be very diplomatic (and I can be) doesn't mean I'm angry Feb 04 00:10:25 GeneralAntilles: but yes, point taken, I'll try to be more... conservative Feb 04 00:10:32 * lcuk can see the veins popping :P Feb 04 00:10:33 Jaffa: nothing personal though, right? Feb 04 00:11:10 He's asleep. :P Feb 04 00:11:20 I might sound like an ass, but buy me a beer and I'm cute and cuddling like a pet turtoise Feb 04 00:11:22 You'll have to idle for the next 8 hours or so to make peace. ;) Feb 04 00:11:37 Mek: is it more faster? What's the size of Gui lib? Feb 04 00:11:47 bleh, just got home from the office Feb 04 00:11:54 gotta finish a document, sure hope it won't take me 8 hours Feb 04 00:13:36 GeneralAntilles: I find it surprising though that you did not voice your opinion more than through sarcasm Feb 04 00:13:53 gnuton: I have no idea if it makes a difference for anything (and my libQtGui.so is 10567940 bytes) Feb 04 00:14:10 crashanddie, good, I'm making some progress, then, I guess. ;) Feb 04 00:14:34 GeneralAntilles: by not being on *every* thread? Feb 04 00:14:56 crashanddie, that's clearly a false accusation. Feb 04 00:15:01 I've never contributed to any Android thread. :P Feb 04 00:15:25 and who am I to blame you Feb 04 00:15:40 Mek: Cool the mine is 12.3 Mb Feb 04 00:15:57 Jaffa in germany or something like that, right? Feb 04 00:16:11 Jaffa's at home in the UK as far as I'm aware Feb 04 00:16:13 btw, just to add to the karma discussion, I think submitting pacakges to extras-devel should give at least some karma (even if the packages are 'only' libraries normal users won't care about) Feb 04 00:16:16 qgil is/was in Germany, though. Feb 04 00:18:23 hmm Feb 04 00:18:35 google tells me he's either in the west midlands or in manchester Feb 04 00:18:56 not close enough to ask for forgiveness with stella Feb 04 00:22:53 How's work these days, crashanddie? Feb 04 00:22:55 ok i got mer-VM installed Feb 04 00:23:18 GeneralAntilles: seeing I got home around midnight should give you a hint :) Feb 04 00:23:24 GeneralAntilles: busy, very Feb 04 00:23:33 Hehe Feb 04 00:23:39 Now i just have to hunt for source packages Feb 04 00:24:56 GeneralAntilles: not travelling too much at the moment, just having my job shifting a bit Feb 04 00:32:58 anyone here use the VMware Mer release? Feb 04 00:33:14 i just have a quick question about compilation re: architecture Feb 04 00:52:13 Stskeeps: you alive? Feb 04 00:58:20 85.9% of the full Stargate SG1 series done \o/ Feb 04 01:00:16 I never could get into SG1 Feb 04 01:00:27 Most of the way through Doctor Who series 2 at the moment. Feb 04 01:00:55 Ah, still with Rose then :) Feb 04 01:01:08 Yeah Feb 04 01:01:10 To be honest, I'm more of an Atlantis fan than an SG1 Feb 04 01:01:36 ./configure --host=arm Feb 04 01:01:41 I stopped having access to SciFi once they really started pushing Atlantis. Feb 04 01:01:44 anyone know what else i have to do other than that? Feb 04 01:02:23 but considering I'm running through SGA as an American goes through a pile of burgers, I need some sustanance Feb 04 01:02:30 whatever the spelling of that word is Feb 04 01:03:16 Hehe Feb 04 01:03:24 sustenance. Feb 04 01:03:28 Americans can spell it. Feb 04 01:03:30 I had Krystal burger on the trip back up from home the other day Feb 04 01:03:32 Mmmmm Feb 04 01:03:32 ;-) Feb 04 01:04:00 * benson becomes hungry. Feb 04 01:04:11 BACON! Feb 04 01:04:42 * benson becomes starving. Feb 04 01:04:47 * GeneralAntilles hits lcuk with a cast-iron skillet. Feb 04 01:05:34 * benson examines fridge. Feb 04 01:05:53 No bacon :( Feb 04 01:06:12 * benson commences frying sausage instead. Feb 04 01:06:14 genewitch: oh well, one word I spelled wrong, knowingly... let's not get into the spelling conversation :) Aluminium vs aluminum, thru vs through, herbs pronounced "erbs"... Feb 04 01:06:49 lol . . . "her-b" Feb 04 01:08:10 have you guys listened to Quim Gil on FLOSS Weekly? Feb 04 01:08:29 I'm listening to the interview right now Feb 04 01:08:43 sisto, there's also a video somewhere Feb 04 01:09:18 I wonder if he talks about the new tablets :| Feb 04 01:09:52 sisto, there's not been an announcement yet. :) Feb 04 01:09:54 I'm out Feb 04 01:09:57 take care everyone Feb 04 01:10:04 crashanddie: bye Feb 04 01:10:16 GeneralAntilles: come one Feb 04 01:10:18 on Feb 04 01:10:26 Later, crashanddie. Feb 04 01:10:30 sisto, what do you mean? Feb 04 01:10:57 I mean... announce it already Nokia Feb 04 01:10:58 :) Feb 04 01:11:00 sisto, Quim's not going to make an announcement before it's actually announced. Feb 04 01:11:08 Maybe the Mobile World Congress Feb 04 01:12:04 * benson is optimistic about MWC Feb 04 01:13:02 mobile world congress? when is it? Feb 04 01:13:30 oh i checked Feb 04 01:13:31 it's soon Feb 04 01:13:36 14th I think Feb 04 01:13:48 ya Feb 04 01:14:06 * sisto joins the optimism about MWC Feb 04 01:14:16 GeneralAntilles: I gave in and bought an N810. Feb 04 01:14:49 You still holding out? Feb 04 01:15:02 benson, I think I came to my senses Feb 04 01:15:50 Something's eating my desktop. . . . Feb 04 01:15:54 you'll have to wait a while between the announcement and actually being able to have one Feb 04 01:16:16 what will happen to the n810 when Maemo 5 comes out? I'm guessing it can't be backported to the device completely (like the Clutter sutff)? Feb 04 01:16:16 probably a coupe of months? Feb 04 01:16:54 Jucato: Well, they'll probably fade out of retail. Feb 04 01:17:02 sisto, beta SDK is out in ~May Feb 04 01:17:11 benson: besides that. I already have one :) Feb 04 01:17:20 * Jucato is more concerned about updates/support/etc :) Feb 04 01:17:30 But even without clutter, Maemo 5 should be quite an improvement. Feb 04 01:18:04 No Maemo5/N8x0 from Nokia. Feb 04 01:18:10 I believe OS2008 was backported to 770 and 800 right? Feb 04 01:18:31 But they want to see successful community backport. Feb 04 01:18:35 sisto, the N810 and the N800 are the same hardware Feb 04 01:19:10 Nokia isn't going the Hacker Edition route for Maemo 5 on OMAP2 this time Feb 04 01:19:17 Instead they're going to support a community backport. Feb 04 01:19:19 ~mer Feb 04 01:19:19 what about continued updates for OS2008? Feb 04 01:19:20 somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Feb 04 01:19:34 oh well.. I'll just need to convince (read: hypnotize) myself that this n810 is the only possible/feasible choice I have atm :/ Feb 04 01:19:50 sisto, we've got one or two more. Feb 04 01:20:47 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Feb 04 01:20:51 I need a new machine Feb 04 01:22:41 i hate compile errors Feb 04 01:22:49 that are the developer's fault. Feb 04 01:23:01 GeneralAntilles: then after that/those update(s), any further updates would be community-based/3rd party? or will there be no updates at all after that? Feb 04 01:23:07 that i have to go in and fix the code before the quote "STABLE RELEASE" unquote will compile Feb 04 01:23:12 Jucato: Feb 04 01:23:13 ~mer Feb 04 01:23:13 rumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Feb 04 01:23:36 * Jucato has been seeing this Mer without knowing what it is... thanks for the link Feb 04 01:24:04 Mer is Maemo 5 based, so no further Maemo 4 updates after Nokia stops. Feb 04 01:24:06 "Supporting tablet hardware no longer receiving updated OS software by Nokia." <-- ok that's what I needed to hear :) Feb 04 01:24:21 er.. ouch.. ok :( Feb 04 01:24:43 would maemo5 be ~= to OS2008? Feb 04 01:24:46 er 2009 Feb 04 01:24:47 * Jucato hopes that Maemo 5 will somehow be able to run on the n810... modified of course.. Feb 04 01:26:00 Jucato: That's called Mer Feb 04 01:26:19 OS2008 is Maemo 4 Feb 04 01:26:37 Fremantle, Maemo 5 Feb 04 01:27:00 there's already people in here working on freemantle -> n8x0, though, right? Feb 04 01:27:01 benson: but you said Mer is Maemo 5 based? Feb 04 01:27:11 Mer, also Maemo 5, but built on Ubuntu with as little closed stuff as possible/ Feb 04 01:27:21 er ok. Feb 04 01:27:28 Mer = Maemo 5 that can run on N810? Feb 04 01:27:29 genewitch, that's called Mer. Feb 04 01:27:42 i am using mer right now as we speak Feb 04 01:27:44 So it can be community distributed on to run on N800 and N8x0 Feb 04 01:27:52 but also on completely unrelated devices. Feb 04 01:27:52 (or rather maemo 5 based running on n810) Feb 04 01:27:54 i'm seeing what i can port to ARM Feb 04 01:28:17 hm. ok.. I guess I can breath a sigh of relief now :) Feb 04 01:30:00 is the --build=armv61-unknown-linux-gnu --host=arm the right config flags? Feb 04 01:36:05 I didn't listen much that I didn't already know on Gil's interview... I want my time back :P Feb 04 01:36:48 sisto: You know he was in a sauna. Feb 04 01:37:12 I guess the steam got into his head Feb 04 01:37:15 haha Feb 04 01:37:19 But yeah, not really any new info. Feb 04 01:38:22 The sauna, BTW, was off. Feb 04 01:38:24 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=261245#post261245 Feb 04 01:45:44 * Jucato is still listening to qgil's interview... Feb 04 01:47:11 what if someone backport android's sdk to maemo and we can have android apps? it's just an idea I am thinking about right now Feb 04 01:56:51 hi all. just followed the instructions in the Maemo Diable Reference Manual for maemo 4.1 for recompiling a kernel and flashing the device. Feb 04 01:57:15 now the device boots, and i can click in some stuff for some seconds.. but then it freezes and reboots Feb 04 01:57:31 anyone has any idea of what's going on, or how can i debug this? Feb 04 02:04:08 what's the default config for n810? Feb 04 02:04:15 nokia_2420_defconfig, right? Feb 04 02:04:59 i don't think there are any awake developers in here right now Feb 04 02:06:04 :-( Feb 04 02:07:15 ppires: I've heard that it's not actually the config used. Feb 04 02:07:23 but I don't know what is. Feb 04 02:08:51 do you think the android sdk could be backported to meamo? Feb 04 02:09:13 ? You mean actually run the SDK, not Android? Feb 04 02:09:26 benson: damn.. the things boots and shows the ui and it's usable for 5 seconds or so Feb 04 02:10:02 sisto: Yes, but you could shoot yourself in the head, instead. It'd be faster. Feb 04 02:10:31 sisto: the Android SDK emulates an ARM. Emulation is not fast. Feb 04 02:10:32 benson: that's another option Feb 04 02:11:16 Perhaps a better option would be porting Dalvik to run natively in Maemo Feb 04 02:11:45 Then, with fairly little additional magic, Android apps would work in Maemo. Feb 04 02:11:55 benson: i've not copied modules. could it be the issue? Feb 04 02:12:21 ppires: I wonder if it works better if you disable the watchdog? Feb 04 02:12:32 benson: how can i do that? Feb 04 02:12:32 ppires: about modules, could be. Feb 04 02:12:49 IDK, I've never compiled a kernel for the tablet. Feb 04 02:12:59 how can i boot the system in single mode? Feb 04 02:13:06 something that allows me to get the modules there Feb 04 02:14:02 heheh. You don't? Feb 04 02:14:14 What initfs are you using? Feb 04 02:14:48 2008-43 Feb 04 02:15:12 If you've got bootmenu, you probably (hopefully) have some remote access options. Feb 04 02:15:43 Since you're running stock... probably only serial console. Feb 04 02:15:58 benson: just flashed it yesterday. the only thing i did was to recompile the kernel and flash it Feb 04 02:17:06 Then just reflash, if there's nothing important on it? Feb 04 02:17:25 * benson is a moron. Feb 04 02:17:30 well nothing important really Feb 04 02:17:45 Um, just reflash the factory kernel only. Feb 04 02:17:53 Not sure why I didn't think of that. Feb 04 02:19:16 * b-man finally finishes porting all mer/deblet base system packages to the ubuntu repo but is a little disappointed when he notices xserver-xorg-input-tslibs doesn't work properly... :\ ugh :P Feb 04 02:19:35 benson: do u know where can i find it? instead of the entire .bin? Feb 04 02:19:50 No, I don't think you can. Feb 04 02:19:58 But no need to, the .bin will do. Feb 04 02:20:10 * benson RTFMs Feb 04 02:21:29 http://www.hopelesscase.com/linuxnotes/flasher-3.0-static Feb 04 02:21:45 Use --flash-only kernel Feb 04 02:22:10 ~flasher Feb 04 02:22:11 [flasher] http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher Feb 04 02:22:22 has anyone here been able to make rtcomm work on Diablo? Feb 04 02:22:24 You could also use --unpack to extract the kernel, if you needed it separately. Feb 04 02:22:41 Jucato, well, rtcomm is shipped as part of the OS Feb 04 02:22:43 So, um, everyone. Feb 04 02:22:50 yeah just saw that option in the flasher, thanks benson Feb 04 02:22:58 If you mean the rtcomm beta, then, no, I haven't had success trying to install the one from Extras-devel. Feb 04 02:23:11 GeneralAntilles: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 04 02:23:20 GeneralAntilles: thx, I'm a lazy google-addict. Feb 04 02:23:39 I was pointed to that one when I asked how to be able to integrate other IM protocols into N810's chat and contacts Feb 04 02:24:02 (with telepathy-haze apparently) Feb 04 02:24:33 but the repos are for chinook, so I've got version mismatches... Feb 04 02:24:45 I need to harass the rtcomm guys about putting ALL of the required packages into Extras. . . . Feb 04 02:25:04 Jucato, add the Collabora repo and install accounts-plugin-haze and telepathy-haze Feb 04 02:26:06 thank Feb 04 02:26:10 ~collabra Feb 04 02:26:15 can I change the default 'accept' request header for the browser? for Feb 04 02:26:16 ehehe. google time :) Feb 04 02:30:31 what's the name of the default browser Feb 04 02:30:56 MicroB Feb 04 02:31:06 ~collabora Feb 04 02:31:18 heh no wonder I'm not getting search results.. stupid typos :) Feb 04 02:31:35 http://gronmayer.com/it/dl.php?id=167 Feb 04 02:33:37 GeneralAntilles: are you the only one who can do infobot queries? (so that I will stop trying :P) Feb 04 02:33:56 ~infobot Feb 04 02:33:57 from memory, infobot is me. I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (http://www.infobot.org/), or updated sources at http://infobot.sf.net/, or a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to, or on fire, or awesome. Feb 04 02:33:57 :p Feb 04 02:34:17 No, jusy only things the infobot knows about work. Feb 04 02:34:28 s/sy/st/ Feb 04 02:34:28 hehe :) Feb 04 02:34:28 benson meant: No, just only things the infobot knows about work. Feb 04 02:34:41 oh cool! a sed bot too :) Feb 04 02:35:33 Cool, if a little annoying at times. I can read sed, I don't (usually) need a bot to explain it to me. Feb 04 02:35:41 s/bot/moron/ Feb 04 02:35:41 benson meant: Cool, if a little annoying at times. I can read sed, I don't (usually) need a moron to explain it to me. Feb 04 02:35:52 It can be fun, though. ;) Feb 04 02:36:13 s/fun/annoying/ Feb 04 02:36:24 (though I know it only works on what *you* said) Feb 04 02:36:29 s/said/sed/ Feb 04 02:36:31 Jucato meant: (though I know it only works on what *you* sed) Feb 04 02:36:32 ~burn himself Feb 04 02:36:33 * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Feb 04 02:36:39 lol XD Feb 04 02:36:47 hehehe Feb 04 02:38:14 ~lart himself for not having the good grace to perish when ignited. Feb 04 02:38:14 * infobot lowers himself's priority for not having the good grace to perish when ignited. Feb 04 02:39:20 infobot: blow up Feb 04 02:39:21 * infobot blows up Feb 04 02:39:26 lol Feb 04 02:39:32 We should stop playing with the bot, the grown-ups will come. ;) Feb 04 02:39:38 Where is a new telepathy/haze? Feb 04 02:39:39 hehe Feb 04 02:39:50 :P Feb 04 02:40:43 hehe Feb 04 02:41:17 Well, no wonder haze isn't available. Feb 04 02:41:29 https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2008-October/003016.html Feb 04 02:44:46 GeneralAntilles: the repo link you gave was for chinook though... trying to change the repo part to diablo Feb 04 02:45:06 http://www.gronmayer.com/it/dl.php?id=248 Feb 04 02:45:10 Jucato, this is a mess. Feb 04 02:45:18 I need to go and harass some people about cleaning this up. Feb 04 02:45:30 hehe thanks :) Feb 04 02:45:50 Yay for harassment! Feb 04 02:45:58 I must say though, that I was a bit surprised that the built-in contacts didn't support Yahoo!Messenger... not that I'm really complaining... just bewildered :) Feb 04 02:46:11 Double-yay for me not having to be involved on either end of it! Feb 04 02:46:35 woe is me having more YM contacts than Google/Jabber ones :( Feb 04 02:46:40 (yay no MSN though :P) Feb 04 02:47:11 * benson must be antisocial... Feb 04 02:47:30 Only ~6 contacts, all family. Feb 04 02:47:57 or you just haven't asked your friends for theirs.. or your friends haven't asked yours :) Feb 04 02:48:29 Hmmm... and that doesn't sound antisocial enough? ;p Feb 04 02:48:38 nope Feb 04 02:48:46 it might be that your friends just don't care :) Feb 04 02:49:07 Oh, cool, they're antisocial too. Feb 04 02:49:28 I should start an antisocial networking site for folks like us. XD Feb 04 02:49:30 or just mean :) Feb 04 02:49:37 heheh antisocial networking :) Feb 04 02:50:38 Jucato, it'd require licensing and legal agreements with MSN/Yahoo/AIM/ICQ/whatever. Feb 04 02:50:50 ah Feb 04 02:51:16 since it's being distributed commercially? (unlike software like Pidgin/Kopete?) Feb 04 02:51:40 Essentially **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 04 02:59:58 2009