**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 10 02:59:57 2009 Feb 10 03:04:39 wow! there's a navit update Feb 10 03:05:36 WowwwwWwWWWww ! it has routing :D Feb 10 03:08:43 * disco_stu is drinking minute maid Feb 10 03:11:34 orange pulpy goodness Feb 10 03:13:12 :D Feb 10 03:13:20 ???? 0_o Feb 10 03:15:15 Road-side Florida orange juice is the only answer. Feb 10 03:17:31 lol Feb 10 03:18:43 i just got a new webpage containing a gallery for all of my Ubuntu n8x0 screenshots up btw; http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/screenshots/gallery.html Feb 10 03:21:48 b-man: thats ultra nice.. but how did you get ubuntu running on n800 ? Feb 10 03:24:46 i took a ubuntu jaunty bootstrap base and applyed several re-designed mer/deblet packages to make it function and boot properly, i even have a repo for it; http://www.bman.maemobox.org/repository/ instructions here; http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=254257#post254257 Feb 10 03:25:30 i want that ! Feb 10 03:25:38 :D Feb 10 03:26:07 knock yourself out ;) Feb 10 03:26:29 b-man: what does it mean ? Feb 10 03:26:59 go ahead :) Feb 10 03:27:13 have fun! :) Feb 10 03:27:49 b-man: im sure it is a pain to install, and right now i dont have much time Feb 10 03:29:20 it just requires time and pacents ;) Feb 10 03:29:56 * b-man will be back, i need to go do something Feb 10 03:39:18 hello Feb 10 03:47:56 i'm back Feb 10 03:49:51 hi b-man Feb 10 03:50:15 hello =) Feb 10 03:50:27 my tablet seems to have vanished Feb 10 03:50:32 apparently Feb 10 03:50:36 0_o Feb 10 03:50:51 was it stolen?? Feb 10 03:50:57 no Feb 10 03:51:06 jaem, I ssh into mine sometimes and then can't find it. :P Feb 10 03:51:10 but Nokia apparently shipped it back to me after warranty by NULL Feb 10 03:51:13 haha Feb 10 03:51:21 lol Feb 10 03:51:26 and they gave me an invalid UPS tracking number Feb 10 03:51:34 and then told me that they only ship by FedEx Feb 10 03:51:52 and FedEx looked up every single package in transit to my Postal Code, and nothing was addressed to me Feb 10 03:51:58 Nokia support is so shitty. Feb 10 03:52:10 well, I found their phone support to be good, in terms of the people Feb 10 03:52:20 but apparently their database could use some work... Feb 10 03:52:56 so, nobody knows where my tablet is Feb 10 03:53:15 I'm going to call back tomorrow and get /something/ done about it Feb 10 03:53:55 um... is the Mer 0.8 release page supposed to have meaningful content? Feb 10 03:54:01 ...because it doesn't appear to Feb 10 05:05:38 how do cx3110x and stlc45xx relate to each other? Feb 10 05:51:42 hello - back to a maemo project today.. I am wondering if there is a pico or nano editor available for the shell ? Feb 10 05:53:40 nano's there Feb 10 05:55:37 apt-get install nano -- cant find package ?? Feb 10 05:57:14 it is _already_ installed Feb 10 05:57:24 hmm Feb 10 05:57:34 or i installed it... Feb 10 05:57:47 nano command not found Feb 10 05:58:08 ok, I'll come over to your house :p Feb 10 06:01:56 apt-cache gives me nano, but doesn't say from what repo Feb 10 06:01:57 darkblue_B, try searching on http://gronmayer.com/it/ Feb 10 06:03:21 ahha Feb 10 06:03:35 i installed if from diablo/tools@r.m.o Feb 10 06:04:09 darkblue_B, add this repo : http://gronmayer.com/it/dl.php?id=246 Feb 10 06:04:30 darkblue_B, open it in browser Feb 10 06:05:28 oooo Feb 10 06:05:31 looking Feb 10 06:07:05 repository.install .. Feb 10 06:07:08 uh? Feb 10 06:07:45 I guess I could open the url you kindly gave me in the Nokia browser.. Feb 10 06:08:00 i thought you'll use it from tablet :P Feb 10 06:08:07 uff Feb 10 06:08:46 just open http://gronmayer.com/it/ and search 'nano'. it'll give you a list of repos Feb 10 06:09:22 ohh I'm trying it in the tablet now.. you folks have many curious ways Feb 10 06:15:13 slonopotamus: thx! working Feb 10 06:41:14 Thief Cleans Out a Desk, But Leaves the Zune Behind Feb 10 06:41:16 Hehe Feb 10 06:41:38 That is what you get for slapping your own label onto Toshiba Gigabit =) Feb 10 07:45:01 the python genuises are confused because my python2.5 doesnt have some piece of distutils or something Feb 10 07:45:22 I have a pure python module, simplejson, that I would like to make work Feb 10 07:45:26 can it be that hard? Feb 10 07:55:37 /join #collabora Feb 10 07:55:39 oops :D Feb 10 07:56:18 spam!! Feb 10 07:57:22 hi, is there any documentation howto install android on maemo? Feb 10 07:57:39 ~android Feb 10 07:57:40 methinks android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible Feb 10 07:57:48 uhm, check on itt Feb 10 07:57:56 there is an 'easy' installer I believe Feb 10 07:58:03 ok Feb 10 08:20:30 morning Feb 10 08:23:24 morning Sts Feb 10 08:24:21 Meiz_n810: sometime when you're not busy today, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade, and gconftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/osso/inputmethod/keyboardavailable true , and see if this fixes any odd Enter behaviour on your tablet Feb 10 08:24:54 hola Feb 10 08:25:01 lo wazd Feb 10 08:25:06 how is your morning so far? Feb 10 08:25:26 rainy :( Feb 10 08:25:56 im having a dentist visit later today so im pondering to stay home and just go there when time is Feb 10 08:26:24 Stskeeps: dentists, eeeewww :) Feb 10 08:26:34 wazd: that bad teeth? ;) Feb 10 08:26:52 * aquatix just spent way too much time finding a parking spot for his car at work Feb 10 08:27:45 aquatix: well, I have inborn calcium insuficency, so :) Feb 10 08:27:58 ick Feb 10 08:28:21 aquatix: I'm just tired of dentists :) Feb 10 08:28:34 aquatix: have to check my teeth every half a year :) Feb 10 08:28:50 ah, that's standard procedure here :P Feb 10 08:29:49 yeah, here too Feb 10 08:30:09 Stskeeps: I ususaly have to fix 4 or 5 teeth during them :( Feb 10 08:30:30 I won't mind if it would be like "You're clear, see ya next year!" Feb 10 08:31:10 * aquatix actually has the latter Feb 10 08:31:21 Let's talk bout something positive :) Feb 10 08:32:30 hehehe, yep Feb 10 08:32:35 anyone went to FOSDEM? Feb 10 08:32:40 i missed the maemo talks :/ Feb 10 08:33:01 think the beagleboard slides will come up and qgil's recording Feb 10 08:36:09 i heard that talk was a tad short? Feb 10 08:36:45 where are lxpanels conffiles? Feb 10 08:37:36 aquatix: no clue :P Feb 10 08:37:44 i guess not so much to demo Feb 10 08:38:00 http://maemo-beagle.garage.maemo.org/ <- project page Feb 10 08:38:06 i missed it due to our massive checkout from the hotel ;) Feb 10 08:38:52 hehe Feb 10 08:39:11 i didn't go to fosdem, had fiance home for once Feb 10 08:39:27 ah, good priority ;) Feb 10 08:42:53 RST38h: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ati85/ , homepage link is broken Feb 10 08:46:06 Sts: There is no homepage yet Feb 10 08:46:20 k Feb 10 08:48:23 RST38h: hola Feb 10 08:48:48 RST38h: I have no Ti86 icon :) Feb 10 08:49:15 wazd: heya Feb 10 08:49:21 wazd: I just used the same one for now Feb 10 08:50:02 RST38h: no, I mean I have no icon to launch Ti86. You wrote that there should be separate Feb 10 08:55:25 wazd: I have got both icons. Weird Feb 10 08:55:38 Looked in Extras menu? Feb 10 08:55:45 http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/shang_kenneth/cctv-fire1.jpg Feb 10 09:01:36 RST38h: nope, I was looking somewhere under the table :P Feb 10 09:01:54 RST38h: I have just 85 one Feb 10 09:03:13 wazd: Ok, a moment Feb 10 09:04:28 wazd: do ls /usr/share/applications/hildon/ati* Feb 10 09:07:10 85 only Feb 10 09:07:27 RST38h: ati85.desktop Feb 10 09:07:50 things, yall! Feb 10 09:08:03 wazd: no ati86.desktop? Feb 10 09:08:17 wazd: I think you need to update to v1.1.1 Feb 10 09:08:48 Stskeeps: enter still not working for me Feb 10 09:09:57 Meiz_n810: oh, keyboard_available Feb 10 09:09:58 sorry Feb 10 09:10:33 you can do that while in-mer too Feb 10 09:11:54 RST38h: well, ham tells me that I'm up to date, but it's 1.1.0 though Feb 10 09:20:53 hi all Feb 10 09:20:59 morning Feb 10 09:21:19 hola Feb 10 09:21:36 wazd: Ok. try from xterm: run-ati85 -ti86 Feb 10 09:21:49 huomenta Feb 10 09:22:50 wrong option Feb 10 09:23:06 checking extras Feb 10 09:23:56 wazd: 1.1.1 is in the Extras. I would suggest uninstalling and installing again Feb 10 09:24:13 Filename: pool/diablo/non-free/a/ati85/ati85_1.1.1-1_armel.deb Feb 10 09:24:13 Size: 699778 Feb 10 09:24:21 RST38h, thanks) Feb 10 09:24:45 * RST38h looks over ti84 hw description Feb 10 09:24:54 wondering if ti83 is similar Feb 10 09:26:27 huomenta hahlo Feb 10 09:26:37 :) Feb 10 09:33:07 wazd: did it work? Feb 10 09:33:55 RST38h: yep, awesome) Feb 10 09:34:31 wazd: I am wondering if we should do ti83/ti83+/ti84 =) Feb 10 09:34:45 hardware is a bit different, but not enough to pose a problem Feb 10 09:36:26 RST38h, well, don't see anything why we shouldn't :) Feb 10 09:37:42 heh, ti83's are certainly in wide use in .dk Feb 10 09:41:52 Morning, all Feb 10 09:42:07 Jaffa: found the problem with maemo-select-menu-location, btw Feb 10 09:42:35 hola Jaffa Feb 10 09:42:54 the problem is that from maemo libtool version to ubuntu libtool version, libtool no longer accepts non-.so targets as something that can be used -shared on Feb 10 09:43:06 which means most of maemo-launcher using stuff from maemo fails Feb 10 09:43:20 Stskeeps: ah Feb 10 09:43:41 "best" hack is to modify the makefile to make a .so which gets installed into a .launch :P Feb 10 09:43:54 i got it working by just executing the .launch directly, but it showed it unthemed Feb 10 09:44:41 lemme just find what we did to HD to fix it Feb 10 09:46:10 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/hildon-desktop/revision/1106?remember=1106&compare_revid=1100 Feb 10 09:46:50 it's really mostly Makefile.am tricks Feb 10 09:53:13 wazd: ti83 faceplate is pretty: http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_ti83p.html Feb 10 09:53:16 Wait, that is + Feb 10 10:01:45 need help , i can't uninstall nitdroid from my n800 Feb 10 10:03:11 ~flashing Feb 10 10:03:12 it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 10 10:07:29 ugh, i see a flare up of iphone vs tablet starting on the forum... Feb 10 10:08:22 again? Feb 10 10:11:19 thank you Feb 10 10:19:04 fuck. liqbase almost works on openmoko! Feb 10 10:20:48 hehe Feb 10 10:20:55 url? Feb 10 10:25:52 Jaffa: got it, pushing to repo. Feb 10 10:35:41 back at home Feb 10 10:35:45 wb Feb 10 10:35:54 RST38h: so, what models should I draw? Feb 10 10:37:24 wazd: I would start with the plain ti83 Feb 10 10:37:49 RST38h :D can you create a nokia 770 emulator :D Feb 10 10:37:53 wazd: Looks like they all share the same hardware. I am adding their LCD access stuff. Feb 10 10:38:01 wazd: i have a creative challenge for you btw - given a http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner , 480x640, a hildon-like mockup Feb 10 10:38:04 lcuk: QEmu Feb 10 10:38:11 for purposes of being an actual phone Feb 10 10:38:12 lcuk: ask hwr =) Feb 10 10:38:19 lol Feb 10 10:38:42 his opinion of 770s werent high, as far as i recall Feb 10 10:41:12 RST38h: I'm going to the country for 2 days so I can draw more than one cause there's totally nothing to do :) Feb 10 10:41:22 Stskeeps: hmmm Feb 10 10:41:34 basically, how would a hildon phone look Feb 10 10:45:11 (we're actually working a bit on support it) Feb 10 10:46:15 Stskeeps: well, ok :) Feb 10 10:47:24 i hope to start being able to utilize some of your ui designs soon - the technical foundation is starting to get there now so Feb 10 10:47:34 wazd: 83+, 84, and 84+ then Feb 10 10:47:42 wazd: if they are any different of course Feb 10 10:47:57 wazd: BTW http://community.livejournal.com/smartphone_ru/341177.html Feb 10 10:48:54 (to our English speaking audience: for unknown reason one of the 5800 product codes used for Russia has not been included into NSU and OTA update lists) Feb 10 10:49:42 I.e. 1/3 of the 5800 owners can't update firmware and Nokia tells them that "it is some engineering error on our end and we do not know when it will be fixed" =) Feb 10 10:50:03 hehe Feb 10 10:51:33 RST38h: bayan :) Feb 10 10:51:40 wazd: First time I see it Feb 10 10:51:53 (had that problem before though, didn't know why it was happening) Feb 10 10:52:01 RST38h: My friend has 5800 and aiting for russian firmware release Feb 10 10:52:13 RST38h: waiting* Feb 10 10:52:26 wazd: v20 appears to be out Feb 10 10:52:47 wazd: But you can only update at the service center, if your product id is "unlucky" Feb 10 10:52:47 RST38h: changing productcode is possible by home means though.. Feb 10 10:53:01 glass: yea, I know. Just afraid to do it. Feb 10 10:53:01 couldn't expect a normal user to do that tho Feb 10 10:53:09 it's pretty safe Feb 10 10:53:26 RST38h: he had problems with sudden turning off of the handset, and I asked him maybe new firmware fixes it Feb 10 10:53:27 could ask a nokia shop to change it too Feb 10 10:54:15 glass: they would most likely refuse Feb 10 10:54:26 wazd: never seen it turning itself off Feb 10 10:54:30 RST38h: they do it over here.. for getting languages Feb 10 10:54:47 wazd: it feels pretty bugless with v10 Feb 10 10:55:00 i should upgrade my 5800 too Feb 10 10:55:06 RST38h: well, me neither but he said he faced this bug multiple times Feb 10 10:55:19 wazd: could be a defective unit too Feb 10 10:55:26 wazd: some had probs Feb 10 10:55:37 dunno if early run of production or such Feb 10 10:58:04 glass: well, he decided just to change it Feb 10 10:58:28 glass: since firmware was not compatible Feb 10 11:02:38 http://i.gizmodo.com/5150189/so-mean-but-maybe-true-nsfw Feb 10 11:02:40 droooooooooooooool Turbaconucken Feb 10 11:02:40 A chicken inside a duck inside a turkey, all wrapped in bacon. Feb 10 11:02:51 omg, I'm on the floor xDD Feb 10 11:05:52 * wazd cries Feb 10 11:11:17 wazd, I love The Onion Feb 10 11:11:29 "time vampire" Ha! Feb 10 11:13:29 work! Work you goddamn fucking stupid piece of shit! xDD Feb 10 11:27:41 http://blueman-project.org/screenshots/version-10.html?layout=default Feb 10 11:27:43 looks interesting Feb 10 11:27:52 RST38h: whoa, Ti84 is pretty extravagant :) Feb 10 11:28:13 RST38h: I don't think that it's possible to draw it in the same layout Feb 10 11:28:37 wazd: well, wil have to change the touch map then Feb 10 11:29:10 Hi there Feb 10 11:29:22 wazd, do a Hello Kitty skin for the TI-84!!! Feb 10 11:29:41 RST38h: and I can't find simple Ti84 photo Feb 10 11:29:51 RST38h: just plus Feb 10 11:29:59 wazd: there is no ti84 Feb 10 11:30:00 GeneralAntilles: k :) Feb 10 11:30:13 wazd: they went straight from ti83+ to ti84+ Feb 10 11:30:26 ShutteR77: hey there :) Feb 10 11:30:31 Yeesh, the things they spoil kids these days with. . . . http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_nspire.html Feb 10 11:30:32 wazd: teehee @ the onion Feb 10 11:30:34 ShutteR77: welcome aboard :) Feb 10 11:31:00 RST38h, TI-83/84 will be excellent. That's the calculator I grew up on. Feb 10 11:31:05 RST38h: ah, so 83, 83+ and 84 Feb 10 11:31:59 t_s_o, directore is the insane guy who decided that Nokia should switch to the Atom. Feb 10 11:32:17 well that explains it... Feb 10 11:32:27 why doesn't the dropbear ssh client have a ssh binary instead of dbclient? Feb 10 11:32:33 wazd: 83, 83+ and 84+ Feb 10 11:32:34 I am a designer. Now, I am on vacation and can make some UI for you Feb 10 11:32:34 no 84 Feb 10 11:32:37 ohohohohoh, am I missing holy-war?) Feb 10 11:32:47 RST38h: yep, I meant that :) Feb 10 11:33:25 wazd, an old one, but wonderfully entertaining all the same: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18659 Feb 10 11:39:00 "So screw you guys, I'm goin' home!" High five, GeneralAntilles :P Feb 10 11:41:24 ShutteR77: hehe, ui on what? :) Feb 10 11:41:40 woo, i got my lesbie usb adaptors today Feb 10 11:42:17 lesbie? photos? Feb 10 11:42:28 the one with two female plugs Feb 10 11:42:56 ill have to try that lol Feb 10 11:43:14 scary, it actually works Feb 10 11:43:17 (with my usb stick) Feb 10 11:43:20 i made a f2f usb cable from bits of an old usb backplate thingy and some solder Feb 10 11:44:00 http://www.av-cables.dk/computer_kabler/usb_kabel/usb_adapter/usb_adapter_a_hun_a_hun_989_da.html Feb 10 11:44:04 Stskeeps, I want to participate in Mer Feb 10 11:44:33 ShutteR77, flutter your eyelashes andstart showing your stuff :) Feb 10 11:45:05 ShutteR77: hehe, well, welcome on board :) there's some initial instructions on http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/People Feb 10 11:45:16 so far all we see of your ui is irc text :P get people interested and find a way to keep wazds dogs from gettin you Feb 10 11:45:19 (that's the formal part) Feb 10 11:45:40 or guards whichever he has at the moment Feb 10 11:45:47 lcuk2: he's actually my friend :) Feb 10 11:46:05 Does anybody else want a cool UI for XChat? Feb 10 11:46:20 GeneralAntilles: me wants :( Feb 10 11:46:45 wazd, do some mockups, then I'll harass some people. Feb 10 11:46:55 GeneralAntilles, i want a new irc client totally - its a shame theres noone who knows irc around Feb 10 11:46:58 lcuk2, it's a litle but my - http://shutline.com/moi-rabotyi/ Feb 10 11:47:03 GeneralAntilles: ui harastment panda? xD Feb 10 11:47:09 Stskeeps, thanks! Feb 10 11:47:31 wazd, that's me, buddy. :P Feb 10 11:48:13 ShutteR77: and take some time reading through http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints/0.8 Feb 10 11:48:29 ok Feb 10 11:49:26 neat fact, my cellphone takes 8mA when connected through usb. it is truely a battery powered 3g dongle :P Feb 10 11:50:26 GeneralAntilles: well, k then, I'll make up something :) Or maybe ShutteR77 will try to make :) Feb 10 11:50:30 I want a new cellphone. Feb 10 11:50:58 we -really- need new icons in mer :P Feb 10 11:51:14 anyhow Feb 10 11:51:18 i'm off to Ze Dentist. Feb 10 11:51:22 :( Feb 10 11:51:23 bzzzzzzz Feb 10 11:51:26 Stskeeps: good luck Feb 10 11:51:27 fu Feb 10 11:51:28 :P Feb 10 11:51:57 dont shut! xD Feb 10 11:53:47 * timelE61i owned 81, 82, and 83. Iirc sister had 83+ Feb 10 11:53:51 Stskeeps, I have one little question. Are you have only Jaiku or you have Twitter too? Feb 10 12:04:16 ShutteR77, we employ the channel feature of jaiku so.. Feb 10 12:04:29 there's a rss feed if need be Feb 10 12:04:54 oh, it's wery good for me, thanks Feb 10 12:04:54 Mauku on tablets is quite useful top Feb 10 12:04:55 too Feb 10 12:05:11 yes, I know Feb 10 12:08:39 hi Feb 10 12:08:59 lo macer Feb 10 12:09:26 i had to install fusion.. just so i can use the esxi infrastructure client Feb 10 12:09:29 that sucks :) Feb 10 12:09:40 i'm not a big fan of dual booting Feb 10 12:10:00 hehe Feb 10 12:10:20 have you been using that box sts? Feb 10 12:10:47 i think i could cope with multibooting my n810 if i had a 3.5" floppy disk case that i could flip through containing my memory cards Feb 10 12:11:05 we need a workbench 1.3 loading screen if you turnb tablet on without a card in the slot Feb 10 12:11:19 (with a click click click sound) Feb 10 12:11:31 heh Feb 10 12:11:53 i don't mind doing it on the n800 ;) Feb 10 12:12:03 Macer, spent most time with gf until sunday.. now picking up pace for next mer release Feb 10 12:12:10 it just goes to the internal sd anyways Feb 10 12:12:28 heh, the expanse of plastic on 800 reminds me of the amiga 500 :D the 810 is as small and sleek as the 1200 ;) Feb 10 12:12:29 StsN800: me too. we celebrated valentines day saturday because she went with her mother to visit her aunt in FL Feb 10 12:13:58 looks like it is just me and my hand on the 14th :) Feb 10 12:18:32 hi there Feb 10 12:22:55 Macer: now referred to as "Gentleman's Time" Feb 10 12:24:07 lcuk2, smaller I think ;) Feb 10 12:24:09 and sleeker Feb 10 12:49:55 i have a virus Feb 10 12:50:04 oh noes Feb 10 12:50:19 yeah damn party germs Feb 10 12:50:32 * lcuk2 cant talk properly Feb 10 12:51:01 Myrtti, fun at fosdem? Feb 10 12:51:03 were you at FOSDEM? just wondering because a friend of mine told me afterwards he feels like he's got symptomps for chicken pox Feb 10 12:51:48 Myrtti, no, i was at relatives 60th on saturday night (belgium wouldv been fun) Feb 10 12:51:56 * aquatix feels less bad about missing those maemo talks Feb 10 12:52:09 then yesterday i went to my mums, she said "oh in the middle of the party it just came on" and has been off work since Feb 10 12:52:20 aquatix, which did you miss Feb 10 12:52:22 and why Feb 10 12:52:22 aquatix: and I saw you several times ;-) Feb 10 12:53:05 lcuk2: i missed Maemo on beagleboard because our group did take its sweet time checking out the hotel Feb 10 12:53:10 not sure about others Feb 10 12:53:14 Myrtti: you did? Feb 10 12:53:23 * aquatix wonders how Myrtti looks like Feb 10 12:53:30 aquatix: Pink. Feb 10 12:53:42 erm Feb 10 12:54:08 i think you wheren't the only one :) Feb 10 12:54:13 aquatix: pink jacket, pink scarf, gray cat hat... Feb 10 12:54:16 * aquatix googles :) Feb 10 12:54:57 Stskeeps: are you looking at maemo-beagleboard project on Garage to look for snergies with Mer? Feb 10 12:55:03 s/snergies/synergies/ Feb 10 12:55:03 Jaffa meant: Stskeeps: are you looking at maemo-beagleboard project on Garage to look for synergies with Mer? Feb 10 12:55:08 * aquatix can't remember *that* wasted and having forgotten about seeing Myrtti Feb 10 12:55:12 +being Feb 10 12:55:18 Myrtti, i had a look at your photos from the trip yesterday :) brought back memories of when i went to the summit. travelling like that is so much fun Feb 10 12:55:44 Myrtti: ah right Feb 10 12:55:52 Myrtti: i have seen you too indeed Feb 10 12:56:22 * aquatix isn't used to getting recognised ;) Feb 10 12:56:34 vista in fusion is acting strange Feb 10 12:56:40 like the software update isn't working Feb 10 12:56:41 wtf Feb 10 12:56:56 i guess i'll try installing sp1 and see if it works after that Feb 10 12:57:01 aquatix: it was your shirt that said 'aquatix' that gave you away ;-) Feb 10 12:57:09 better not assimilate vista into your system ;) Feb 10 12:57:11 Myrtti: ha Feb 10 12:57:12 hardly rocket science Feb 10 12:57:17 yep :) Feb 10 12:57:22 aquatix: i need at least one Feb 10 12:57:37 the rest of my systems are fbsd Feb 10 12:57:45 but i need that one damn vista box... mostly just for nero haha Feb 10 12:57:57 Myrtti: enjoyed FOSDEM? Feb 10 12:58:00 * aquatix quite did Feb 10 12:58:10 Macer: where do you need nero for? Feb 10 12:58:31 aquatix: recode is the easiest way to make compatible mpeg4s that work on everything i own Feb 10 12:58:55 aquatix: yeah, though I found it hard to find intresting talks Feb 10 12:59:14 mpeg4/aac batch encoding is very quick and works on all my media things.. like some shitty netgear eva700 i have... my popcornhour... phone... n800... etc Feb 10 12:59:25 not to mention.. all osx burning software sucks :) Feb 10 12:59:38 which is the only other actual thing i have that i do real work on Feb 10 12:59:48 the other 3 systems are servers Feb 10 13:00:03 wait.... Feb 10 13:00:11 4 :) 4 systems Feb 10 13:01:32 Macer: ah right Feb 10 13:01:48 * aquatix generally uses ffmpeg for transcoding video Feb 10 13:02:01 and gnome burner or similar ilk for burning Feb 10 13:02:13 not that i burn optical media that much lately Feb 10 13:02:19 for some reason i couldn't get ffmpeg to work correctly on things Feb 10 13:02:20 Myrtti: yeah, same here Feb 10 13:02:31 i tried every setting under the sun. the only success was using xvid and that takes FOREVER Feb 10 13:02:45 Myrtti: at least it was better than last year imho Feb 10 13:02:47 even with the settings down.. xvid takes 4x longer to encode with mencoder Feb 10 13:02:59 Macer: hm :( Feb 10 13:03:06 yah.. it sucks :) Feb 10 13:03:08 * aquatix made a script once with a bunch of settings Feb 10 13:03:28 aquatix: so did i.. it worked very well too.. but it still took forever Feb 10 13:03:39 worked 2x real time for Lost episodes if i remember well Feb 10 13:03:51 using xvid? Feb 10 13:04:19 heh... mine would take like 3x .. usually hover around 9fps Feb 10 13:04:28 ffmpeg -y -i "$1" -f mp4 -s 320x240 -r 25 $2 "$1".mp4 Feb 10 13:04:39 * aquatix tries on his laptop Feb 10 13:04:45 320x240? Feb 10 13:05:14 you in russia or something? :) Feb 10 13:05:31 no, on an n810 :P Feb 10 13:05:43 that played well at least Feb 10 13:05:52 didn't try much higher though Feb 10 13:06:14 heh... n800 doesn't seem to have hw decoding for mpeg4 Feb 10 13:06:22 my n95 was a beast for it Feb 10 13:06:28 ah, that could be the problem Feb 10 13:06:29 it could play high res stuff Feb 10 13:06:41 Macer: what do you have against russia?) Feb 10 13:07:17 heheh Feb 10 13:07:24 well.. when he said 320x240 I just remembered eurotrip where the russian was like "Miami Wisseee.. NEW NUMBER ONE SHOW!!" Feb 10 13:07:30 Macer: except that the n95 only has 240x320 screen :) Feb 10 13:07:40 aquatix: true.. but it still played the higher res stuff Feb 10 13:07:46 nice Feb 10 13:07:47 so i didn't have to resize it Feb 10 13:07:58 just to play it without it stuttering.. the n95 has awesome hardware Feb 10 13:08:08 too bad mine won't get on tmob's 3G Feb 10 13:08:14 stupid 1700MHz bastards Feb 10 13:08:15 heh Feb 10 13:08:41 meh, i have to install ffmpeg with the right libs Feb 10 13:08:51 i miss the DVD quality movie taking and 5mp flash cam Feb 10 13:08:54 * aquatix wants the n97 Feb 10 13:08:56 :) Feb 10 13:09:13 i still have the phone but i've been using my G1 more than anything Feb 10 13:09:21 i like the wifi tethering over the bt stuff Feb 10 13:09:36 once someone makes an AP app for android.. the thing will kick ass even more Feb 10 13:09:48 right now it's unsecure adhoc Feb 10 13:11:03 Macer: It was Bratislava in Eurotrip, not russia :) Feb 10 13:11:16 lol Feb 10 13:12:10 "Who'll find me in Berlin when I'm in Bratislava!" :) Feb 10 13:12:11 Bratislava wasn't part of russia? Feb 10 13:12:19 Macer: nope) Feb 10 13:12:23 before the communist fall? Feb 10 13:12:25 wow really? Feb 10 13:12:39 Well, part of USSR maybe Feb 10 13:12:47 that's russia :-P Feb 10 13:12:52 nope) Feb 10 13:13:03 in Soviet Russia, Eurotrip Bratislavas you Feb 10 13:13:10 lol Feb 10 13:13:15 no? yes? Feb 10 13:13:33 in Soviet Russia trip euros you! Feb 10 13:13:58 in Soviet Russia, ffmpeg transcodes you Feb 10 13:16:09 "here you will always find a party. in soviet russia the party will always find you" ? Feb 10 13:16:35 in Soviet Russia, the Belgian beer consumes you Feb 10 13:17:20 After the Communist Party seized power in Czechoslovakia in February 1948, the city became part of the Eastern Bloc. Feb 10 13:18:14 so i guess it wasn't a part of russia Feb 10 13:18:15 hI andre Feb 10 13:18:15 my bad :) Feb 10 13:18:32 Ive got some fun bugs in pdf viewer Feb 10 13:18:36 i still wonder whether there would have been a "third way" if dubček had succeeded in 68... Feb 10 13:18:39 Want em? Feb 10 13:18:42 it just had russian communist influence Feb 10 13:19:02 timelE61i, just file them. but if you can test them in fremantle too i'd be much more happy Feb 10 13:19:19 i don't think there's much work going on for diablo's pdf viewer (at least my impression) Feb 10 13:20:37 andre__: probably not Feb 10 13:20:46 it would have made things worse .. more people would have died :) Feb 10 13:21:33 Macer, i'm still wondering whether there's something possible between socialism/communism and capitalism (though i'm fan of the latter) Feb 10 13:21:52 i shouldn't have studied politics :-P Feb 10 13:22:01 it's called fascism Feb 10 13:22:02 :) Feb 10 13:22:05 fascism works Feb 10 13:22:10 just have the wrong people leading the charge Feb 10 13:22:23 :-D Feb 10 13:22:33 if a fascist dictator actually cares more of his people and country more than geopolitical power.. it works great Feb 10 13:22:58 like i said though.. when people think fascism they think Hitler Feb 10 13:23:01 :) Feb 10 13:23:13 Benevolent dictators would work great. Feb 10 13:23:14 just had the wrong guys leading the charge for the fascist movement Feb 10 13:23:20 Problem is, such a thing really doesn't exist. Feb 10 13:23:55 GeneralAntilles: if Hitler wasn't a murdering power hungry bastard... Germany would be ruling the world now Feb 10 13:25:47 the German war machine was an absolute monster of efficiency.. fascist reorganization of industries during the war helped the country as a whole to fight Feb 10 13:26:17 * crashanddie takes shelter Feb 10 13:27:18 truth be told. minus the jew killing .. people should really admire Hitler Feb 10 13:27:41 True, what is there to dislike, the painter or the architect? Feb 10 13:28:55 i think he just went nuts :) brain eating disease Feb 10 13:29:10 cmon.. opening 2 fronts against major opponents? that was suicide Feb 10 13:29:39 Macer: *cough* well, he completely destroyed culture. everybody with some brain and money left the country because of the pressure Feb 10 13:29:39 he should have left russia alone until later Feb 10 13:29:50 Jaffa, was looking but not much more than what mer does on beagle Feb 10 13:30:22 andre__: sometimes you have to sacrifice culture for the majority Feb 10 13:30:24 their scratchbox using image builder is curious Feb 10 13:30:43 no way, i love liberty and freedom :) Feb 10 13:30:48 imagine it... the US govt uses bribery to force farmers to grow or not grow certain crops Feb 10 13:31:08 isn't that similar? :) Hitler used an army instead Feb 10 13:31:10 and where bribery fails, they use the dmca Feb 10 13:31:16 lcuk2: exactly Feb 10 13:31:44 dont much like the rest of the topic tho, bbl Feb 10 13:31:56 and judging by the last couple of years.. capitalism isn't all it's cracked up to be Feb 10 13:32:10 especially consdering federalization of almost all financial institutions Feb 10 13:32:20 they aren't "forcing", they're incentivizing! Feb 10 13:32:44 ShadowJK: and if it didn't work? you think the government isn't going to pass a bill to add more pressure to farmers who do not agree? Feb 10 13:33:18 and really.. who would be in the wrong during a situation like that? the greedy farmer.. or the government trying to help the majority? Feb 10 13:33:55 Macer: what we have now is not capitalism Feb 10 13:33:58 jaffa, besides that it seems somewhat 1:1 to maemo5.. but one og Feb 10 13:34:31 gomiam: exactly Feb 10 13:34:34 of the special things of mer is the way we reconstruct maemo:) Feb 10 13:34:45 we stopped being capitalist the second we gave government bailouts... probably long before that Feb 10 13:34:57 StsN800: cool Feb 10 13:35:21 that is not capitalism... that is a form of fascism.. the government stepped in using taxpayer money in order to control the banks Feb 10 13:35:26 Well, the idea is to make sure that if one crop had a very high price one year, that everybody isn't growing it the next year, causing a price collapse in that crop and cost for other crops soaring out of control, resulting in farmers going bankrupt :-) Feb 10 13:35:49 Macer: nah, that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. What we have now is corporativism with something in front Feb 10 13:36:17 ShadowJK: i understand the concept... but it is still the government stepping in to control a private industry Feb 10 13:36:43 farmers should be able to produce whatever crop they like. "no officer, its ummm just weeds, yeah thats it, lying fallow. no the hippies aren't camped outside Feb 10 13:36:47 using money instead of weapons .. which probably cost the same ;) Feb 10 13:37:13 lcuk: i don't believe in illicit drug laws Feb 10 13:37:27 if a woman has a "right to choose what to do with her body" why doesn't that right extend to everybody? Feb 10 13:38:06 the courts decided to single out one group and forget about the rest of the population with that one :) Feb 10 13:38:41 On a more fundamental level it's about protectionism and subsidizing the poor people in your country. Most of the farming industry could probably not stand on its own if it had to compete with imports, and the price for groceries would be higher. Food is the biggest expenditure, alongside rent, for poor people. Feb 10 13:39:22 see... hitler would have just let them starve :) Feb 10 13:39:46 in chicago a few years ago they tore down these huge project homes (welfare living quarters) Feb 10 13:40:03 a 60 year old woman was on television crying about how this had been her family's home for 25 years Feb 10 13:40:07 This subsidizing isn't even all that politically difficult, the alternative to rely on foreigners to feed the country is even more appalling than this "communist" practice ;) Feb 10 13:40:21 so she has basically been raising generations of leeches on taxpayer money Feb 10 13:40:48 ShadowJK: food is the biggest expenditure? Feb 10 13:40:49 ShadowJK: that's what we thought about the steel industry Feb 10 13:40:53 but we still let that one fall Feb 10 13:41:11 ShadowJK: last time I checked, you could still feed your family on bread and water for less than 50 quid a month :) Feb 10 13:41:13 domestic steel production took a major dive... this is the same steel we must use in order to make weapons to defend the country Feb 10 13:41:34 so what makes steel less of an important industry than the farming industry that feeds the country? Feb 10 13:41:58 if we went to war with china.. no more steel tanks? :) Feb 10 13:42:32 plus our farms are feeding the entire planet nowadays Feb 10 13:42:43 Macer: even though your statement amused me when I joined the channel, I think you're borderlining with the "dude fucking behave yourself" quote Feb 10 13:42:49 crashanddie, bread is so cheap because it's basically just water and wheat, and the wheat part is heavily subsidized. This would make bread many times more expensive without the agricultural subsidies ;) Feb 10 13:42:52 Macer: you sound like my uncle harry when he's too drunk Feb 10 13:43:17 Macer, the brits are already having their tanks made in Japan :) Feb 10 13:43:27 ShadowJK: and we have jets made in france Feb 10 13:43:44 i don't see how our govt doesn't see a problem with this sort of situation Feb 10 13:43:52 * GeneralAntilles has yet to fly on an Airbus. Feb 10 13:44:11 many of our industries rely on outside assistance from other countries.. so if there were a REAL war... we would be screwed Feb 10 13:44:27 that's why there will be a "real" war again Feb 10 13:44:31 at least, not in our lifetime Feb 10 13:44:43 war by proxy ftw Feb 10 13:44:47 our oil would be gone... we wouldn't have enough steel to make enough weapons... the food we have wouldn't be exported.. etc etc Feb 10 13:45:02 crashanddie: yeah.. i suppose so ;) Feb 10 13:45:13 though, Macer let me stress my point again, why are you having this conversation here? Feb 10 13:45:15 Macer, .fi used to have an elegant solution to the dilemma. Buy half from nato and half from soviets :-) Feb 10 13:45:36 crashanddie: because maemo has GPL software, and we all know GPL is communist ;) Feb 10 13:45:40 crashanddie: because nobody was talking about n800 type stuff Feb 10 13:45:55 Macer: doesn't mean politics should be the first thing to pop up Feb 10 13:46:18 #maemo is the king of off-topic. Feb 10 13:46:21 No sense fighting it. :P Feb 10 13:46:28 GeneralAntilles, they work well as boats too :-) Feb 10 13:46:30 crashanddie: i suppose.. but if nobody was talking what's the difference? Feb 10 13:46:32 (airbus) Feb 10 13:46:33 Macer: and by reading some of your stuff, I understand most people wouldn't be engaged to actually set foot in this channel again Feb 10 13:46:44 Atleast in the hands of american pilots Feb 10 13:46:46 or say a word for that matter Feb 10 13:46:48 it's just politics ;) Feb 10 13:46:59 Macer: there's no thing like "just politics". Feb 10 13:47:01 no, actually it's ignorant thoughts Feb 10 13:47:15 crashanddie: really? How so? Feb 10 13:47:24 "it's just politics" - does anyone want me to start rambling about feminism and gender bias? no? damnit. Feb 10 13:47:40 haha Feb 10 13:47:54 Macer: you can't sound like my drunk uncle harry and have more than half a brain at the same time Feb 10 13:47:58 Myrtti: please do. I'll don my asbestos pants (oh, my poor cancer) and troll for a while. Feb 10 13:48:13 Myrtti, I've never been subjected to an überfeminist assault, I've heard scary stories though Feb 10 13:48:24 crashanddie, to change your topic again: bacon doesn't grow on trees, i have to go out to a clearing in the local forest. i normally find a decent crop just under the cover of the bushes. Feb 10 13:48:25 crashanddie: how did your drunk uncle harry lose half his brain? :) Feb 10 13:48:30 see.. this is why it is not "just politics" once you disagree with what someone else has to say.. you simply dislike them :) Feb 10 13:48:49 while maintaining a blind eye to valid points Feb 10 13:48:51 gomiam, the alcohol, duh Feb 10 13:48:58 i dont take any of the sproutlings though, they are too small and only make little tiny rashers Feb 10 13:49:14 ShadowJK: while I'd enjoy talking about feminism, this is hardly the channel for it, was just making a point ;-) Feb 10 13:49:32 gomiam: a japanese tank drove on his head, he was trying to fire at a french jet, while eating manchester bio-bacon Feb 10 13:49:35 ShadowJK: oh, so he didn't just lose half his brain... it deteriorated to half its mass :) Feb 10 13:49:37 Hum, Qt 4.5 in the builder. Feb 10 13:49:44 crashanddie: that would certainly do it XD Feb 10 13:49:52 GeneralAntilles: does it owrk? Feb 10 13:49:53 work? Feb 10 13:49:54 GeneralAntilles: oh, that sounds interesting. Feb 10 13:50:03 Myrtti, I'll just have to try force it then! What do you think about the ideas to force 6month parenthood leave on both mother and father? :-) Feb 10 13:50:07 lcuk: fair enough Feb 10 13:50:11 manchester bio-bacon is morel ike beggin strips Feb 10 13:50:33 ShadowJK: excellent idea. I'm also pro General Conscription for both men and women. Feb 10 13:50:42 GeneralAntilles, what does qt offer us then Feb 10 13:50:45 :-P Feb 10 13:50:55 No. ;) https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/qt45_4.5.0~rc1maemo0/ Feb 10 13:51:04 lcuk: lol. god willing... no more gtk Feb 10 13:51:12 Myrtti, can i be excused from conscription on the count my balls aint big enough to fight in a war Feb 10 13:51:19 lol macer Feb 10 13:51:20 GTK aint going anywhere anytime soon. Feb 10 13:51:28 GeneralAntilles: that sucks... i like qt much better Feb 10 13:51:45 Macer, why does that "suck"? Feb 10 13:51:47 Use Qt, then. Feb 10 13:51:48 Myrtti, but but the poor boys would lose their pride forever getting their asses kicked by so many girls Feb 10 13:51:50 heh Feb 10 13:52:00 People who like Qt can use Qt, people who like GTK can use GTK Feb 10 13:52:02 lcuk: who said it would have to be military conscription? ;-) Feb 10 13:52:05 and users get lots of pretty applications. Feb 10 13:52:09 Everybody wins. Feb 10 13:52:14 GeneralAntilles: gtk doesn't look pretty anymore Feb 10 13:52:24 maybe 10 years ago it did Feb 10 13:52:29 Macer, users don't look at code. Feb 10 13:52:29 And people who like building their own widget libraries and rendering cores (*cough* lcuk *cough*) can do that too ;-) Feb 10 13:52:31 * Myrtti goes to get more vanilla cola and fiddles with latex Feb 10 13:52:43 Macer: Code niceness or visual niceness? Feb 10 13:52:49 visual Feb 10 13:53:01 visually I can't tell the difference. Feb 10 13:53:06 * Jaffa thinks both Qt and Gtk suck for that, and has high hopes for Fremantle Feb 10 13:53:36 ShadowJK: i can ... qt just seems nicer and more modern. gtk looks like circa 1990 Feb 10 13:53:46 But QT seems to perform nicer, which I hate to say, because I dislike C++ and QT is C++. ;P Feb 10 13:55:08 gtk looks like circa 1990? hmmmm weird Feb 10 13:55:13 never had that impression Feb 10 13:55:16 minimalism ftw Feb 10 13:55:37 I suspect the most interesting bit is that QT will make it easier to port stuff between maemo and symbian.. Feb 10 13:56:04 jaffa, but it does look pretty and nothing else would let me do what ive got here :$ i imported "recent pictures" and "recent sketches" now Feb 10 13:56:05 * ShadowJK suspects fedora has just configured QT and GTK to look the same Feb 10 13:56:07 fully zoomable Feb 10 13:56:23 ShadowJK: for some reason.. you can just feel teh difference Feb 10 13:57:09 Myrtti, :O should i be worried, or should i go check if my gimp mask still fits? Feb 10 13:57:20 gtk feels like... like it's goofy :) less centralized.. Feb 10 13:57:46 ShadowJK, HOW did you make qt look the same as gtk!!! Feb 10 13:57:47 maybe it is the dev structure of gtk based stuff.. but when you open one app... and OK/CANCEL is swapped up from the one you were just in Feb 10 13:57:52 Macer: Sorry for the question but how old are you? Feb 10 13:58:20 whenever i looked at qt, i saw strange something::other() and random bits of some dialect of c++ Feb 10 13:58:26 RST38h: will be 30 this july Feb 10 13:58:29 Speaking of "feel the difference", the new kmail is stumbling on this bug in qt, O(N^2) behaviour in some widget... it makes kmail run at about 1fps on 2.83 GHz core2quad. Joy Feb 10 13:58:37 (shedding a tear over it) Feb 10 13:58:44 Macer: So, you should have seen Motif, right? =) Feb 10 13:58:57 wow Feb 10 13:59:43 Speaking of motif, while gtk and KDE apps look the same to me, pure QT apps seem to be defaulting to motif-look lately.. Feb 10 13:59:48 that was like... wow Feb 10 14:00:23 ShadowJK: Apparently, they are not "90s" but GTK look is :) Feb 10 14:00:24 do people still use motif? Feb 10 14:00:26 The Gnome dialogs hurt my brain.. They're autopilot-incompatible, you need to think before pushing a button. Feb 10 14:00:35 Macer: Qt defaults to motifish UI Feb 10 14:01:05 Shadow: They are GNU, like GCC =) Feb 10 14:01:44 haha Feb 10 14:01:53 incompatible with the rest of the world?;) Feb 10 14:02:07 ShadowJK: yeah Feb 10 14:02:36 i don't understand where the memo went to get devs to put stuff in the same spots Feb 10 14:02:39 heh Feb 10 14:02:43 only on the n810 (when I tried). otherewise afaik it defaults to Plastique on Linux, and to Wndows/OSX on those platforms Feb 10 14:02:48 (Qt4) Feb 10 14:03:02 What do you mean, gcc only has -fiam-gentoo-user-plz-shoot-me-in-foot-and-unroll-loops and -falways-ice Feb 10 14:03:06 it's even worse when the anarchist decides to go way out and not use formal things for dialogs Feb 10 14:03:16 and use things like "SURE" "NO THANKS" etc Feb 10 14:03:19 :) Feb 10 14:04:36 ~mer Feb 10 14:04:37 methinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Feb 10 14:05:06 fusion sure is beating up my macbook Feb 10 14:05:27 all this just because i need an esxi infrastructure client Feb 10 14:05:59 GNU can be funny sometimes. glibc doesn't have the strl* stuff because it's "not a standard". Solaris has it, I heard windows has it (hidden-ish, I think). They saw it was a bloody good idea, but GNU only accepts good unstandard ideas if it's invented by GNU :-( Feb 10 14:06:27 arrogance Feb 10 14:06:43 gnu people would never make for good fascist dictators Feb 10 14:06:56 :) Feb 10 14:06:58 Some argue they already are ;) Feb 10 14:07:01 Shadow: no strlen stuff? =) Feb 10 14:07:08 yeah.. but not good ones ;) Feb 10 14:07:12 like queen elizabeth good Feb 10 14:07:14 haha Feb 10 14:07:20 gnu never invented linux, but hasn't RMS become its illegitimate step daddy Feb 10 14:07:38 blah.. fbsd for the win Feb 10 14:07:47 StsN800: you should have based mer on a fbsd kernel :) Feb 10 14:07:51 haha Feb 10 14:08:21 Hm yeah why not, debian has all these crazy subprojects to make GNU/fbsd and what not.. Feb 10 14:08:37 :) Feb 10 14:08:41 lcuk: RMS is just a creepy old nerd Feb 10 14:09:17 * Macer pictures sts scratching his head saying "why didn't i think of that" Feb 10 14:09:18 heh Feb 10 14:09:21 lcuk: Besides, he developed demagogic/dogmatic qualities of a ranking communisty party member Feb 10 14:09:32 He takes creepy to such an art that he gets tailed by UN security staff :) Feb 10 14:09:48 RST38h: sounds like the board to accept people into harvard Feb 10 14:09:56 lcuk: Do notice that he is no communist by ideology (like some wackos like to label him), just a creep Feb 10 14:10:20 Shadow: What hashe done to UN? =) Feb 10 14:10:37 in the end the last law is always to "Obey the pigs." Feb 10 14:10:41 Shadow: Tried to "liberate" AIDS drug recipes? Feb 10 14:11:33 Macer: Among more level headed people, this "law" is known as "Don't fight the steam roller, it always wins" Feb 10 14:11:45 wryyyyy! Feb 10 14:12:24 Macer, netbsd is more likely Feb 10 14:12:45 andre__: "visum" - methinks that's someone trying to be a little too pretentious ;-) Feb 10 14:13:31 RST38h, nah he had bought a big roll of aluminium foil and wrapped his RFID badge in it, and encouraged other people to do that too Feb 10 14:13:36 RST38h: same thing ;) Feb 10 14:14:12 Jaffa, feel free to correct me. as i said, i myself never had to deal with this. just know about some friends... Feb 10 14:14:38 Shadow: Did he try it on his pe^H^Hhead too? People say it helps Feb 10 14:16:03 i'm eating subsidized potatoes, corn, and pork Feb 10 14:16:57 andre__: I agree with your point, but "visa" is singular in English, "visas" is plural... Feb 10 14:17:17 “Perens notes in his blog that they had some limited diplomatic protection as UN delegates, which would have lead to amusing headlines had Richard actually been detained for any period of time. Bruce reminded Richard that he had limited immunity while at the conference. To this, Richard wittily remarked that he should have used the opportunity to shoot one of the paid lobbyists against Free Software wh Feb 10 14:17:23 o had been bugging him again. Perens doubted that the immunity was that extensive, but there’s now little doubt UN security will be watching RMS even more closely from now on” Feb 10 14:17:29 andre__ & jaffa: Personally, I always carry someone else finger around. Feb 10 14:17:50 Jaffa, file a bug against english language. in german "visa" is plural, as in latin ;-) Feb 10 14:18:25 Jaffa: "visum" is what is written on a Finnish visa for example Feb 10 14:18:34 Jaffa: and austrian too, I think Feb 10 14:19:07 ShadowJK: He should start with Perens, IMHO Feb 10 14:19:15 in German... visa is plural? Feb 10 14:19:32 Let us ask google translate Feb 10 14:19:48 according to the etymology at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/visa#Etymology it would be a case of mistranslation... in German. Feb 10 14:20:01 German: VISUM Feb 10 14:20:20 Finnish: VIISUMIN Feb 10 14:20:23 as it comes from "charta visa" not from "chartum visum" or something like that :) Feb 10 14:20:37 gomiam: Comes from Latin most likely Feb 10 14:20:43 RST38h: erh. Feb 10 14:21:03 plural of visa in Finnish is viisumit Feb 10 14:21:05 timsamoff, chaos computer club here has published the fingerprint of the german secretary of Interior so you can use it everywhere instead of your own one :-D Feb 10 14:21:09 :-P Feb 10 14:21:14 RST38h, that's "The visa's", google translate is somewhat random on translations to/from finnish without context, and not that good on full sentences either :) Feb 10 14:21:22 andre__ Sweet! Feb 10 14:21:23 Myrtti: Was checking singular of course Feb 10 14:21:35 RST38h: singular is viisumi Feb 10 14:21:37 :-P Feb 10 14:21:39 Oh Feb 10 14:21:44 they "stole" it from a glass after a public discussion Feb 10 14:21:47 * RST38h isn't going to learn Finnish any time soon Feb 10 14:21:51 heh Feb 10 14:21:56 Wow. Feb 10 14:22:19 What's plural of visa in english? visa? visas? Feb 10 14:22:24 visas Feb 10 14:22:44 In some parts of the U.S. it's "veesuhs." Feb 10 14:22:51 RST38h: viisumin is the genitive case of word viisumi :-P Feb 10 14:23:02 augh Feb 10 14:23:13 (also known as the possessive case) Feb 10 14:23:31 yay, languages with 16 cases... Feb 10 14:23:37 Myrtti: as in "visa regime"? Feb 10 14:23:42 at least you don't need prepositions anymore Feb 10 14:24:12 andre__, I just mumble the endings. I think they're going to figure out my scam soon :-( Feb 10 14:24:22 RST38h: as in "visas date of expiry" or "visas legitimicy"... Feb 10 14:24:46 ShadowJK, haha, good idea. i will do the same after becoming an expat :-) Feb 10 14:24:51 Myrtti: Ah Feb 10 14:25:03 Visa's (possessive) Feb 10 14:25:06 yup Feb 10 14:25:52 Finnish language ♥ Feb 10 14:25:58 * RST38h matched it to the appropriate Russian case Feb 10 14:26:09 andre__: i'm about to comment on visas Feb 10 14:26:20 but first i need google to talk to me Feb 10 14:26:22 just do it Feb 10 14:26:31 as i said, if i spread FUD, please do correct me Feb 10 14:26:33 * timeless kicks google offline Feb 10 14:26:33 I wonder if google translate's "viisumin" is because someone had typoed "Visas" when they meant "Visa's" in the original english, and the human translator had seen what it was suppsoed to be, from context, and translated it to "Viisumin" in finnish... Feb 10 14:26:46 never had the "pleasure" myself yet to go through this Feb 10 14:27:02 Shadow: Google uses probabilistic translation Feb 10 14:27:09 Shadow: No humans involved Feb 10 14:27:51 RST38h, but it's based on documents that are human translated in the first place.. like EU that churns out tons of bureaucracy in tons of languages :) Feb 10 14:28:08 then one should also take into account that the word "visa" is sometimes used in similar meaning with "credit card". Similar to how the word "hoover" is used Feb 10 14:28:12 Shadow: Yea, they pick up existing documents and use them to train the Evil Robot Feb 10 14:28:28 s/$/ in English/ Feb 10 14:28:58 RST38h, yeah so I was just musing whether there had been an error in one of the existing documents they used to train the evil robot :-) Feb 10 14:29:40 Shadow: My guess is that the corpus of Finnish documents is pretty small to begin with, so they can't train the iron well enough Feb 10 14:30:36 When you have 16 cases I imagine you'd need 16 times bigger corpus too? :-) Feb 10 14:30:54 Google translator does better than most other online translators though Feb 10 14:30:59 Shadow: Not necessarily as they are not making morphological analysis Feb 10 14:31:02 it's almost legible Feb 10 14:31:07 It is, ironically Feb 10 14:31:41 that being said... Feb 10 14:31:43 RST38h, but because of that, a single word in finnish might to the robot appear like 32 different words? Feb 10 14:32:00 Shadow: Robot does not care, he deals with correlations Feb 10 14:32:00 other online translators are so shitty my head explodes when I try to use them. Feb 10 14:34:27 mm, beer and danish liver paste with salty meat on top and pepper root. <3 Feb 10 14:36:06 tuna sammiches ♥ Feb 10 14:36:15 uncyclopedia article on finnish is wonderful Feb 10 14:37:01 o.O Feb 10 14:37:54 hahaha Feb 10 14:38:02 Like, without morphological analysis, unless the robot stumbles upon a corpus with all the possible forms you can make out of a word, and the practice of constructing new words on the fly by joining together existing words to make a new one, how is google ever going to translate this: Feb 10 14:38:20 "Epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydelläänsäkäänköhänkään" - "I wonder if even with his, her or its ability not to disorganize things." Feb 10 14:38:50 wtf Feb 10 14:39:01 ShadowJK: omfg wordpasting! Feb 10 14:39:02 XD Feb 10 14:39:22 worst thing ever in a language (well, tonal pronunciation might be worse) Feb 10 14:39:51 * aquatix likes merging words Feb 10 14:39:57 it's a feature of dutch too Feb 10 14:40:01 danish too Feb 10 14:40:04 Shadow: Yea, small corpus and many word forms still make the job harder Feb 10 14:40:04 and german Feb 10 14:40:24 But german has a nice single word for "Broken through improvement" Feb 10 14:40:53 It almost makes me feel like Nokia should publish Maemo changelists in German Feb 10 14:40:57 Meiz_n810: homefrom school yet? Feb 10 14:41:34 rst38h: 1.1 broken-through-improvement. 1.2 fixed broken-through-improvement 1.3 unfixed broken-through-improvement ? Feb 10 14:41:37 * timeless pokes andre__ Feb 10 14:41:53 new bugzilla category? :P Feb 10 14:43:45 timeless: broken-through-improvement - also known as "fucked up" Feb 10 14:44:37 hmm? Feb 10 14:44:40 foe what? Feb 10 14:45:09 RST38h, what is that word in german? :-) Feb 10 14:45:21 andre: I can't locate it Feb 10 14:45:32 ooh Feb 10 14:45:36 * timeless has an outbox Feb 10 14:45:36 andre: It fell out at me from a BSD fortune cookie db once Feb 10 14:45:48 * timeless isn't used to such a concept Feb 10 14:46:50 * Stskeeps ponders what things he should try now that he has a usb f-f adaptor. Feb 10 14:46:56 RST38h, ahhhh Feb 10 14:47:04 RST38h, "verschlimmbessert"? Feb 10 14:47:06 sts: connect to a second maemo device Feb 10 14:47:44 andre: No idea - most German words look like a miscommunication to me =) Feb 10 14:47:53 RST38h, same here :-D Feb 10 14:47:59 timeless: i only have one maemo device :P Feb 10 14:48:04 .. except at work Feb 10 14:48:08 * gomiam checks andre__'s word.... Feb 10 14:49:05 * timeless almost gets kicked out of a room Feb 10 14:49:43 Stskeeps, you could try all your USB memorysticks and see which one consumes too much power and end up corrupted ;) Feb 10 14:49:55 ShadowJK: hehe Feb 10 14:49:55 RST38h, "verschlimmbessern": (verschlimmern = worsen; verbessern = improve). nice mixture. :) Feb 10 14:50:10 ShadowJK: my keychain usb stick "only" took 100mA Feb 10 14:50:15 and my S-E k610i took 8mA Feb 10 14:50:19 according to http://diccionario.reverso.net/aleman-ingles/verschlimmbessern the word actually exists. Feb 10 14:50:34 Stskeeps, that's if you trust what they tell you... Feb 10 14:50:44 andre: does the word exist? =) it does! Feb 10 14:50:45 gomiam, but the translation is wrong Feb 10 14:50:53 ShadowJK: hehe Feb 10 14:50:56 it is not "to make worse" Feb 10 14:51:02 ShadowJK: i should probably get a powered usb hub. Feb 10 14:51:03 the number in lsusb is no measurement, it's what the connected device itself claims it needs Feb 10 14:51:12 ShadowJK: ah, i took it from dmesg Feb 10 14:51:12 andre__: is it wrong, or is it different from what you thought? Feb 10 14:51:30 gomiam, it's more like "expected to be an improvement but in the end it's worse" Feb 10 14:51:58 we are talking about a Collins dictionary, so they might know what sie sprechen aus ;) Feb 10 14:52:16 andre__: sounds like precisely the word he wanted :) Feb 10 14:52:36 "fix one bug introduce 3 new ones" Feb 10 14:52:55 3 small steps forward one big step back Feb 10 14:53:20 then again, http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/deutsch-englisch/verschlimmbessern.html (a German Technical University) translates it as "to make sth. worse with so-called corrections" Feb 10 14:53:53 fits a bit better Feb 10 14:53:59 gomiam: "so called corrections" is a very German way to put it Feb 10 14:54:07 overgecorrigeert? Feb 10 14:54:11 RST38h: XDDD Feb 10 14:54:20 RST38h: ghehe Feb 10 14:54:32 anyone here use the Media Player? Feb 10 14:54:33 aquarius, that sounds like a nice and fitting dutch translation :) Feb 10 14:54:41 * timeless is trying to understand what 'stream's and 'channel's are Feb 10 14:54:43 timeless: after discovering Vagalume.. Feb 10 14:54:45 aquatix: that's the effect of the old engineering motto "if it works, it has not enough funcionalities" Feb 10 14:54:46 then no Feb 10 14:54:46 XD Feb 10 14:54:46 :P Feb 10 14:54:53 sts: how unhelpful Feb 10 14:55:08 timeless: my nature :P Feb 10 14:55:29 hrm Feb 10 14:55:38 so, anyone else? please? Feb 10 14:55:43 gomiam: fix it till it's broke ;) Feb 10 14:55:53 gomiam: In my first and long abandoned EE course, the instructor was used to say that there is exactly 3 kinds of problems in digital electronics Feb 10 14:55:55 * timeless wants to know if there's an "Updating...." message that appears Feb 10 14:55:58 timeless: Sometimes Media Player is the only app that will play some videos I have. Feb 10 14:56:01 and if so, under what conditions Feb 10 14:56:11 timelss: Never seen one myself. Feb 10 14:56:14 timsamoff: hrm, Feb 10 14:56:18 RST38h: and most of them sit between the solder and the chair XD Feb 10 14:56:25 gomiam: 1) wrong contact 2) no contact 3) engineer has no idea what the hell he wants from the circuit Feb 10 14:56:28 could you try downloading a bunch of mp3s to a usb stick using a pc Feb 10 14:56:34 and then importing them into your tablet Feb 10 14:56:44 see if Media Player shows something when it opens/restores Feb 10 14:56:48 gomiam; Yes, that segment covers them all nicely Feb 10 14:56:52 s/usb stick/mmc/ Feb 10 14:57:27 wow Feb 10 14:57:35 Breadcrumb fail Feb 10 14:57:48 [BACK] > Directory > Languages > Arabic > mast FM103 Multan Feb 10 14:58:03 RST38h: it's a twist on PEBKAC, another old error code, this time related to computers. Feb 10 14:58:26 also known as ID10T error Feb 10 14:58:41 (or ID-ten-T when users are around) Feb 10 15:00:38 oh boy. combined intel and ARM processors. Feb 10 15:01:00 does it still work? Feb 10 15:01:06 Stskeeps: if you are going to do that, take care of setting your bit-endianness right :) Feb 10 15:01:16 http://www.eetimes.eu/213402291 Feb 10 15:02:18 Sts: It is kinda old news Feb 10 15:02:42 Sts: The same HTC had a mixed ARM/Intel machines for a few years, running WinCE/WindowsXP Feb 10 15:02:43 now you just have to mix it with that idea of making computing less reliable when precision isn't actually required and... ?.... profit! Feb 10 15:03:08 gomiam: Intel solved that problems eons ago with 8087! Feb 10 15:03:43 RST38h: ah yes.. the scary htc vista and windows mobile thing Feb 10 15:03:48 gomiam: then GCC helped Intel by "optimizing" 8087 registers to 64 bits =) Feb 10 15:04:00 RST38h: oh? silly me thinking the flagship of that was the first Pentium.... Feb 10 15:04:12 gomiam: Lots of scientific apps got all kinds of weird bugs, but who cares... Feb 10 15:04:31 gomiam: P5 still had 8087 for an FPU Feb 10 15:04:46 Well, its later incarnation of course Feb 10 15:05:04 RST38h: methinks the math copro on P5 was a bit different from the original 8087. Didn't the P5 have multiplication tables? Feb 10 15:05:29 gomiam: for fp or floating point? Feb 10 15:05:36 sorry, int or fp Feb 10 15:05:58 for floating point, IIRC. Instead of making the coprocessor do the multiplication they used lookup tables Feb 10 15:06:01 (IIRC) Feb 10 15:06:29 ah, I see what you mean Feb 10 15:06:52 it is a faster way to do it though, so "instead" is a wrong word. Feb 10 15:07:06 they did screw up a division table in p5, yea Feb 10 15:07:13 timsamoff: still alive? Feb 10 15:07:22 * timeless is trying to understand some messages Feb 10 15:07:44 Yes. Feb 10 15:07:48 RST38h: I think using lookup tables _instead_ of a math unit makes the _instead_ reasonable to use ;) Feb 10 15:07:48 In #maemo-meeting. Feb 10 15:08:02 But, here as well -- interdimensionally. Feb 10 15:08:16 lo Meizirkki_ Feb 10 15:08:40 hi Sts Feb 10 15:08:49 Meizirkki_: apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and verify HAM now asks you where to put Maemo Mapper Feb 10 15:08:49 timsamoff: welcome to the fuzzy world of mind difussion (in which you pay a bit of attention to many things and no actual attention to any of them;) Feb 10 15:09:01 gomam ;) Feb 10 15:09:06 gomiam: it is not exactly like that(see http://members.cox.net/srice1/pentbug/pentbug3.html Feb 10 15:09:06 *gomlam Feb 10 15:09:09 :p Feb 10 15:12:55 Queerer and queerer: http://www.eetimes.eu/213300454 Feb 10 15:19:11 afternoon qwerty12 Feb 10 15:19:15 hi Stskeeps Feb 10 15:19:34 * timeless sighs Feb 10 15:19:39 Media Player is um... clever Feb 10 15:19:46 it lets me try to delete streams from playlists Feb 10 15:19:50 but it knows that won't work Feb 10 15:20:59 hey, does mer ship w/ mysql? Feb 10 15:21:04 or did i get it from something else? Feb 10 15:21:20 possibly some silly include Feb 10 15:21:25 er Feb 10 15:21:27 dependancy Feb 10 15:23:24 * Stskeeps downloads a mer installation to his tablet Feb 10 15:26:05 sts: oh, i get core dumps from mer now? Feb 10 15:26:22 not yet, it's on my list of things i'd like to do this week Feb 10 15:26:30 hrm, if i don't get them Feb 10 15:26:35 then why did the update script mention them? Feb 10 15:26:45 huh? :P Feb 10 15:27:11 * Setting kernel variables [/etc/sysctl.d/10-coredumps.conf)... [ OK ] Feb 10 15:27:21 that might be ubuntu stuff Feb 10 15:27:28 nope, it's mine :) Feb 10 15:27:35 ah Feb 10 15:27:40 * timeless doesn't understand why it was mentioned by the system Feb 10 15:27:44 do you want it? :) Feb 10 15:27:48 sure :P Feb 10 15:28:16 webwizardry.net/~timeless/10-coredumps.conf Feb 10 15:28:32 you'd need a postinst script which ensures that directory is readable Feb 10 15:28:36 *nod* Feb 10 15:28:38 and you should probably make it sticky Feb 10 15:28:41 (+s) Feb 10 15:29:00 or you could pick some other directory Feb 10 15:29:30 thopiekar: did you test my 0.8-snap1 yet? im wondering, cos it seems smaller than the others O_o Feb 10 15:30:14 * qwerty12 shouldn't have tested that theme script under Maemo... Feb 10 15:30:24 qwerty12: nuked your tablet? Feb 10 15:30:24 :P Feb 10 15:30:28 hi Feb 10 15:30:37 :) Feb 10 15:30:56 Stskeeps, I'm left with gtk grey default and a theme switcher that refuses to work :P Feb 10 15:31:02 Sorry Feb 10 15:31:12 Stskeeps: yes I tested it.. but I really took a long time to install... Feb 10 15:31:17 thopiekar: hehe, okay Feb 10 15:31:20 timelE61i, Haha, lol, my fault, that script was for Mer :) Feb 10 15:31:30 im untaring it too atm Feb 10 15:31:43 Why didn't it work in maemo? Feb 10 15:31:45 if ubuntu suddenly stripped 20m off their compressed base, that's impressive Feb 10 15:31:51 Other than the cancel case? Feb 10 15:31:58 * thopiekar is now going to flash his tablet... Feb 10 15:33:04 Meizirkki: wednesday, got time for experimenting on the Fn problem in the evening? Feb 10 15:33:27 Yes, tomorrow i have time for sure. Feb 10 15:33:32 alright Feb 10 15:33:45 i'll try to fix up the evdev and we'll see if it helps Feb 10 15:34:47 my screens issuses are getting bader... Feb 10 15:34:57 mm, definately send it in then Feb 10 15:35:17 yes should be the best... Feb 10 15:40:20 look at the 3rd picture.. thats how it looks like.. Feb 10 15:40:20 http://picasaweb.google.com/thopiekar/N800Screen# Feb 10 15:41:17 the lines? Feb 10 15:41:29 * qwerty12 fixed his theme problem, copied default current-* files back to /home/user/.osso Feb 10 15:41:39 Stskeeps: yes... Feb 10 15:41:53 hi Feb 10 15:41:58 evening slonopotamus Feb 10 15:42:47 tell me the magic of stlc45x vs cx3110x Feb 10 15:42:57 at the beginning they were just in the right side... then now after a day they are as long as the hole screen also from the on to the other side.. Feb 10 15:43:03 stlc45xx is the OSS one using a open MAC Feb 10 15:43:12 cx3110x is open but using a closed MAC (umac.ko) Feb 10 15:44:03 they speak about different chips. and both say their chip is used in n8x0 Feb 10 15:45:07 stlc45xx is the one you want to use if you have an up to date kernel Feb 10 15:45:13 cx3110x is if you have the diablo kernel Feb 10 15:46:29 Stskeeps: sorry, i have no idea how soon i can test out the menu-location selector. Some KDE, LXDE or OOo packages are blocking me to install HAM.. :( Feb 10 15:46:50 Meizirkki: ah, sucks Feb 10 15:46:53 Meizirkki: saw http://blueman-project.org/screenshots/version-10.html?layout=default btw? Feb 10 15:46:58 Meizirkki: i'll test myself in a bit Feb 10 15:47:03 nope Feb 10 15:47:16 * Meizirkki checks Feb 10 15:48:05 wow, is that bt-manager gonna beavailable in jaunty repo? Feb 10 15:48:15 ok, winner so far of the best description of liqbase video: Feb 10 15:48:16 i dunno, it is still work in progress i think Feb 10 15:48:17 That was a very confusing video. What I learned from it: you haven't done some stuff, Zoom Fish!, widgets, Zoom Fish!, behind schedule, zoom, Fish!, widget framework, Fish! Feb 10 15:48:17 I guess it's a system that lets you zoom in on fish? Feb 10 15:48:31 it allows you to PAN and DUN, integrated with NM, too Feb 10 15:48:38 Stskeeps, k. your cx3110x source deb looks strange :) Feb 10 15:48:38 as i know this bt-manager just works with the old bluez stack Feb 10 15:49:02 * blueman Feb 10 15:49:06 thopiekar: 4.0 now Feb 10 15:49:28 Stskeeps: thanks for the info :) Feb 10 15:49:53 * Meizirkki reinstalls Mer Feb 10 15:49:56 Stskeeps, makefile wants to tar xvzf something in /usr/src/bla-bla Feb 10 15:50:03 I just remember that I had to downgrade bluez on intrepid.. Feb 10 15:50:16 slonopotamus: ah, that's just the normal cx3110x source stuff :P Feb 10 15:50:47 Stskeeps, hmm :) i don't believe you built it on autobuilder Feb 10 15:51:25 slonopotamus: i did not, got me there Feb 10 15:51:45 cx3110x-module however is a little closer to the truth Feb 10 15:52:28 uh? i'm talking about it Feb 10 15:53:09 ok, will package it myself Feb 10 15:53:56 anyone can recommend git web viewer? Feb 10 15:54:09 without apache, plz Feb 10 15:54:20 i have nginx Feb 10 15:54:37 does anyone know how to install a real maemo os on a vm.. I have seen a post about that before, but I haven't bookmarked it... Feb 10 15:55:09 thopiekar, http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2008/08/01/nokia-n8x0-emulation-part-ii/ Feb 10 15:55:33 It takes up quite a bit of time to get running though Feb 10 15:55:38 thank you very much :) Feb 10 15:57:11 .. why on earth is ubuntu mirrors now on ipv6 Feb 10 15:57:34 because ipv6 is the future Feb 10 15:59:45 * slonopotamus wonders when qemu will roll out official release with armv6 support. running cvs snapshots is somewhat hackish Feb 10 15:59:47 and who is the jackass who put up an unreachable ipv6 gateway Feb 10 16:01:09 unreachable? Feb 10 16:01:36 as in for some reason my ubuntu picks up on this as it's default gateway, and it doesn't lead anywhere Feb 10 16:01:39 :P Feb 10 16:02:11 then again, it better not be the ipv6 cisco gateway i put up as part of a uni course 3 years ago that's still active.. Feb 10 16:03:01 * johnx returns Feb 10 16:03:14 johnx, hello Feb 10 16:03:19 'lo johnx Feb 10 16:03:26 RST38h: around? Feb 10 16:03:28 johnx, how's there? Feb 10 16:03:32 hey johnx Feb 10 16:03:49 slonopotamus, pretty good. a little chilly Feb 10 16:03:51 fuck, bugmenot bars vmware now :( Feb 10 16:04:28 LHC Restart Postponed Further, Won't Attempt To Swallow Earth Again Until September Feb 10 16:04:32 johnx: saw url in msg? Feb 10 16:04:36 yup Feb 10 16:04:38 Why? Why again? Feb 10 16:04:53 catching up Feb 10 16:05:04 RST38h: it was the potential way out if bush had stayed in power Feb 10 16:05:04 :P Feb 10 16:05:07 RST38h: they are running gentoo and hadn't updated in a while? Feb 10 16:05:09 so now they're postponing it Feb 10 16:05:28 RST38h, noooo! why? Feb 10 16:05:34 Stskeeps: there are easier ways you know ;) Feb 10 16:06:07 slono: The Tentacled One is giving the economic crisis its last chance to destroy humanity Feb 10 16:06:17 slono: Before engaging the collider, that is Feb 10 16:06:21 Stskeeps, ah I see! couldn't read it until I looked at the large size version of the picture : Feb 10 16:06:29 oh. as i thought Feb 10 16:06:39 andre__: ping Feb 10 16:06:43 or someone Feb 10 16:06:53 could someone install a local web server on their n800/n810 Feb 10 16:06:59 and then go offline Feb 10 16:07:05 and try loading http://127.1 from Web Feb 10 16:07:15 (or, if you have my en-US, from 'Browser') Feb 10 16:07:28 timeless: kepp going, I am keen on this Feb 10 16:07:39 that's it. Feb 10 16:07:43 vmware are motherfuckers, they don't offer a tar.gz anymore >.< Feb 10 16:07:43 tell me if the page loads Feb 10 16:08:00 timeless, it will want to go online Feb 10 16:08:08 timeless, in maemo Feb 10 16:08:08 slonopotamus: are you usre? Feb 10 16:08:09 well I have a lighttpd with php installed now on an N800 Feb 10 16:08:17 timeless, it's a known bug Feb 10 16:08:30 ..and I am about to try to create an ad hoc network Feb 10 16:08:43 timeless, yes, i'm sure, i hit it too. Feb 10 16:08:47 timeless, can't they just install the dummy plugin for icd? Feb 10 16:09:13 slonopotamus: humor me? Feb 10 16:09:22 if I change /etc/network/interfaces to be ad hoc mode, does this bug apply? Feb 10 16:09:23 we *wrote* code to get this right for localhost Feb 10 16:09:25 timeless, it doesn't want a live connection, it only wants to escape from offline mode Feb 10 16:09:25 Red Hat had a meeting with the Russian communications ministry, which announced that the development of free software in Russia was one of its priorities. One concrete idea they talked about was using the Russian Fedora project as a step towards creating a national operating system. Feb 10 16:09:35 oh wait erm, what? Feb 10 16:09:37 RST38h: http://s48.radikal.ru/i120/0902/e9/61ef1731769c.png Feb 10 16:09:41 Bleah. Can't even choose the right Linux distro. Feb 10 16:09:52 so, if i'm not in offline mode, it won't try to up a network Feb 10 16:10:02 timeless, you wrote it wrong? Feb 10 16:10:08 slonopotamus: i'd like to know Feb 10 16:10:14 wazd: You are leaving me no choice but to add TI83 support... Feb 10 16:10:14 could someone stop telling me what they remember Feb 10 16:10:21 and actually walk through it w/ me? Feb 10 16:10:24 timeless, i haven't tried with latest maemo update Feb 10 16:10:29 well good Feb 10 16:10:33 so pretend you have no experience, and try :) Feb 10 16:10:38 RST38h: :) Feb 10 16:10:39 wazd, need a better ref image. :P Feb 10 16:10:43 wazd: I think the ENTER key has somewhat rectangular corners Feb 10 16:10:58 timeless, i can't Feb 10 16:11:03 why not? Feb 10 16:11:19 timeless, if i go offline, i won't be able to speak to you :) Feb 10 16:11:20 RST38h: well, mine has rounded :) Feb 10 16:11:20 wazd: and the I letter in TI-83 is a bit thicker than T (probably an antialiasing glitch) Feb 10 16:11:36 slonopotamus: you have ony one computer! Feb 10 16:11:46 I will lend yo uone Feb 10 16:11:55 darkblue_B: how about we try w/ you then? Feb 10 16:11:58 darkblue_B, in train - yes, only one Feb 10 16:12:01 wazd: Btw, you rounded image corners on ti85 but left them sharp on ti86 and ti83 - is this how they are supposed to be? Feb 10 16:12:06 oohhhh train Feb 10 16:12:10 for now, disable autoconnect in connectivity, and be in normal (not offline mode) Feb 10 16:12:13 hehe Feb 10 16:12:33 timeless: this is a high priority for me - I just want to understand your desired use case Feb 10 16:12:34 maybe s/in train/on train/, not sure Feb 10 16:12:36 * timeless wonders if the wimax people broke it Feb 10 16:12:43 on a train Feb 10 16:12:46 (articles are important) Feb 10 16:12:52 timeless, correct me :) Feb 10 16:13:01 in train would mean you're physically in the walls Feb 10 16:13:05 or that you typoed in training Feb 10 16:13:16 slonopotamus: your tablet must have a keyboard Feb 10 16:13:24 on a train, ok Feb 10 16:13:32 darkblue_b: well Feb 10 16:13:48 the question is can you visit http://127.1 or http://localhost w/o having a network established Feb 10 16:14:01 there are further questions of can you do it from offline mode Feb 10 16:14:02 darkblue_B, my tablet has everything but coffee-maker Feb 10 16:14:07 but one baby step at a time Feb 10 16:14:24 my question is: can I serve DHCP as the base of an ad hoc network? Feb 10 16:15:03 Stskeeps, I have a few things to test and then I will post my status to the forum later today Feb 10 16:15:12 daperl: alright, how is it going with it? Feb 10 16:15:42 RST38h: my Ti85 photo have smooth button edges, and 86/83 have sharp. I don't know if they are all the same, I never saw them alive :) Feb 10 16:15:43 timeless, how do i say 'i'm ON train', meaning i'm on its roof? Feb 10 16:16:29 you could say you're above the train, on top of the train, or just on the roof of the train Feb 10 16:17:06 'You're in India.' :) Feb 10 16:17:37 you could probably even say you're on the train's roof Feb 10 16:19:39 on A train, but on THE train's roof? this blows my mind Feb 10 16:19:54 Stskeeps, I'm seeing some strange behavior. I just want make sure my i's are dotted and such before I say something more definitive. Was that obscure enough? :-) Feb 10 16:20:11 daperl: hehe, ok Feb 10 16:20:12 porting Gentoo is much easier :) Feb 10 16:20:28 you wouldn't usually say you're on a train's roof Feb 10 16:20:53 wazd: No, I don't mean the button edges, I mean the skin corners Feb 10 16:20:59 you could be on a roof of the train, i suppose even on a roof of a train Feb 10 16:21:01 wazd: TI85 has rounder corners Feb 10 16:21:02 but... Feb 10 16:21:29 wazd: As to buttons, can't say for sure myself, although I did get to use a few of these gadgets Feb 10 16:22:03 timeless, if i'll need to make some official speech in English, i'll ask you for corrections :) Feb 10 16:22:23 s/i'll/i/ Feb 10 16:22:28 s/if i'll/if i/ Feb 10 16:22:28 slonopotamus meant: timeless, if i need to make some official speech in English, i'll ask you for corrections :) Feb 10 16:22:56 RST38h: http://i019.radikal.ru/0902/7e/3f335252054f.png slightly fixed (forgot to enlarge Alpha) Feb 10 16:23:02 uh. you were 1 sec faster Feb 10 16:23:24 hah that is very well drawn Feb 10 16:23:41 wazd: wgetting... Feb 10 16:24:12 wazd: TI82/83/84 have got a different LCD controller =( Feb 10 16:24:47 85/86 just map screen buffer into the main memory but 82/83/84 have it separate Feb 10 16:25:11 heh Feb 10 16:25:19 reminds me of a certain internet tablet... Feb 10 16:25:27 Or 3 :) Feb 10 16:26:21 hey there is a mothod to clone the internal flash to sd but this there a way, too, copy the partitions as files? Feb 10 16:26:27 johnx: tablet can do bulk transfers to lcd, just like nokia phones Feb 10 16:26:29 * .. on sd... Feb 10 16:26:40 johnx: but this one is more like the old TMS9918 chip Feb 10 16:26:51 awww, I was really excited to draw 84 :) Feb 10 16:27:33 thopiekar, dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=/media/mmc2/my-internal-flash.jffs2 Feb 10 16:27:35 wazd: In case you are wondering, I am absolutely *not* doing B3-34 and its spawn =) Feb 10 16:27:40 Stskeeps, wtf is cx3110x-2.0.15.tar.bz2 ? garage project page has 0.8.1, 1.1 and 1.2 Feb 10 16:27:41 Stskeeps, and all of them are tar.gz, not tar.bz2 Feb 10 16:27:47 ~ping Feb 10 16:27:48 ~pong Feb 10 16:27:52 pang Feb 10 16:28:13 johnx: thanks.. Feb 10 16:28:15 slonopotamus: yeah.. Feb 10 16:28:15 :P Feb 10 16:28:19 slonopotamus, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/c/cx3110x-module-src/ Feb 10 16:28:32 The garage ones are way older compared to one from above Feb 10 16:29:39 RST38h: :D Feb 10 16:30:25 Stskeeps, google gives only deblet svn links for cx3110x-2.0.15.tar.bz2 Feb 10 16:30:27 RST38h: I have one alive :) Feb 10 16:30:27 crazy people. 0.8.1 is newer than 1.2 Feb 10 16:31:16 wazd: I gave up my MK-52 Feb 10 16:31:29 wazd: But still have the original 1kB MK-85 Feb 10 16:32:30 RST38h: I have B3-34 as a shotgun replacement for thiefs xD Feb 10 16:32:44 HEH Feb 10 16:32:57 qwerty12, omg! Feb 10 16:32:59 heh, that is. funny fact: mer running out of battery = shutting down Feb 10 16:32:59 :P Feb 10 16:33:00 wazd: you don't really need the whole B3-34, just the batteries Feb 10 16:33:15 RST38h: Just power brick :) Feb 10 16:33:28 Stskeeps, as in "turns off suddenly" or "runs shutdown -h now" ? Feb 10 16:33:29 wazd: If I remember correctly, it had a modest power brick Feb 10 16:33:32 slonopotamus: so um... Feb 10 16:33:36 By modern standards that is Feb 10 16:33:42 at least for the disconnected case, darkblue_B just tested and it works fine Feb 10 16:33:51 * timeless is waiting for the results for the offline mode case Feb 10 16:33:55 RST38h: well, it has common size but it's very heavy :) Feb 10 16:34:05 and it works in offline mode too Feb 10 16:34:17 johnx: not sure a shutdown -h now but it does the shut down splash screen Feb 10 16:34:22 qwerty12, why??? why do you need separate package with sources? Feb 10 16:34:22 normal packages are build from source. what are source packages built from? Feb 10 16:34:32 wazd: Well, it is a normal zener-diode brick Feb 10 16:34:33 source + packaging Feb 10 16:34:34 :P Feb 10 16:34:56 Stskeeps, that's actually terrifyingly sensible O_o Feb 10 16:34:57 wazd: The small ones used today are dynamic power supplies Feb 10 16:35:05 they regenerate voltage Feb 10 16:35:12 sometimes i really hate users Feb 10 16:35:14 It's usually more polite to have your packaging in a diff.gz but I guess cx3110x is a nokia thing anyway so packaging may as well be included Feb 10 16:35:18 johnx: i wouldn't mind a hibernate or something but yes.. that is sensible Feb 10 16:35:30 they insist something doesn't work, because they remember it didn't work Feb 10 16:35:39 but they don't actually check to see if it really doesn't work Feb 10 16:35:50 or just theoretically doesn't work perfectly Feb 10 16:37:41 <||cw> slonopotamus: normal packages are built from source packages, source packages are upstream source code plus distro specific patches and build and binary packaging scripts Feb 10 16:37:52 noooo! Feb 10 16:38:08 <||cw> in general Feb 10 16:38:09 you have a package named cx3110x-src Feb 10 16:38:27 <||cw> oh a kernel module source package... Feb 10 16:38:49 <||cw> that's a package made for building for whatever kernel you happen to be running Feb 10 16:38:57 and a package named cx3110x-module Feb 10 16:39:07 Stskeeps, btw do you build cx3110x without umac.ko? or do you use the dummy umac.ko? Feb 10 16:39:12 <||cw> and that's one already built for a specific kernel Feb 10 16:39:37 qwerty12: that .ko was made back in summer Feb 10 16:39:39 i have no clue, really Feb 10 16:39:49 :) Feb 10 16:40:22 oh my Feb 10 16:41:01 slonopotamus: regarding "not in autobuilder", we decided it was better to move on over those three areas than trying to get the kernel + modules building with the new toolchain Feb 10 16:42:10 hmm Feb 10 16:42:47 wanna be accused of gpl violation? :) gimme build instructions for this stuff (kidfing) Feb 10 16:42:57 john, the copy of the flash fails... " Input/output error" ? (the reason of my buggy screen? - a fu**** up filesystem?) Feb 10 16:43:18 slonopotamus: .. Feb 10 16:43:20 thopiekar, does it fail immediately or after a certain amount of time Feb 10 16:43:23 ? Feb 10 16:43:32 Boot from a sd (or initfs) and use mtd-tools utils to dump to jffs2 file Feb 10 16:43:42 You can then flash back with flasher-3.0 when you need to Feb 10 16:43:53 hmm first of all I just needed to gain root access... Feb 10 16:44:18 thopiekar, ah, sorry for misleading you. I think my method was doomed from the beginning... Feb 10 16:44:24 then when running the command it stops with this message after a while Feb 10 16:44:28 especially if you're booted from flash right now Feb 10 16:44:42 ok i see... Feb 10 16:45:58 so how can i copy the internal flash then? Feb 10 16:46:07 by booting from mer? Feb 10 16:46:34 sp3000: why does the thunderbird import wizard run when it only offers Don't import anything? :) Feb 10 16:46:47 Should be possible, I've even done it from initfs by adding mtd-utils into my initfs image and doing it over telnet via g_ether Feb 10 16:47:07 darkblue_B, what is the use of pasting the conversation in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=339#c17 ? Feb 10 16:47:16 why did teh thunderbird import dialog cross the road? Feb 10 16:47:23 andre__: i asked Feb 10 16:47:30 although i hoped he'd have cleaned it up Feb 10 16:47:37 the use is that the commenters are idiots and can't read Feb 10 16:47:43 ah Feb 10 16:47:46 the bug is effectively fixed for the average case Feb 10 16:47:54 if you try to visit http://localhost, it will work Feb 10 16:48:00 yeah, clean up would have been nice. i just quickly read and wondered how it helps Feb 10 16:48:09 which means if you're complaining, you're just complaining because you like to complain Feb 10 16:48:13 means WORKSFORME ? Feb 10 16:48:21 it's still technically broken Feb 10 16:48:24 hehe Feb 10 16:48:25 but only for extreme cases Feb 10 16:48:29 as i wrote in my earlier comments Feb 10 16:48:36 which is why i didn't resolve it Feb 10 16:48:46 but if it's just going to be a lightning rodd Feb 10 16:48:48 s/d$// Feb 10 16:48:53 then yes, kill the bug Feb 10 16:52:38 timeless, you could kill it as a dupe of #1767, no? Feb 10 16:52:53 that'd be rude Feb 10 16:52:59 the poor bug was filed much earlier Feb 10 16:53:25 and there's a reason we have dependencies in bugzilla Feb 10 16:53:27 but yes Feb 10 16:53:30 and no Feb 10 16:53:33 timeless, #1767 has much cleaner description Feb 10 16:53:38 because then we'd have more idiots commenting in it Feb 10 16:53:46 i'd rather have the current bug as a lightning rod Feb 10 16:53:48 than 1767 :) Feb 10 16:54:05 timeless, hehe Feb 10 16:54:59 no localhost specs. hehe. Feb 10 16:56:18 target ip = one of devices ips -> do not connect. no? it isn't so simple? Feb 10 16:56:36 well Feb 10 16:56:41 127.243 Feb 10 16:56:45 is a valid address iirc Feb 10 16:56:53 iirc it should technically work Feb 10 16:57:12 and it's not just ip's Feb 10 16:57:19 i can have 127.3.6.3 timeless Feb 10 16:57:20 in /etc/hosts Feb 10 16:57:29 and it should let me connect to http://timeless Feb 10 16:57:43 and? don't connect then Feb 10 16:57:48 no. do connect. Feb 10 16:57:49 err Feb 10 16:57:59 rollback my last words Feb 10 16:58:16 why hosts? iconfig! Feb 10 16:58:22 and it isn't just http or host/ip's Feb 10 16:58:26 what's iconfig? Feb 10 16:58:29 s/ico/ifco/ Feb 10 16:58:29 slonopotamus meant: why hosts? ifconfig! Feb 10 16:58:42 ifconfig doesn't understand hostnames, it understands ip addresses Feb 10 16:58:49 and i asked the browser to visit a hostname Feb 10 16:59:30 * timeless frowns Feb 10 16:59:37 so... the real trick atm is to write an api Feb 10 16:59:39 good. if you can resolve while offline and it resolves to device address, then do not connect Feb 10 16:59:52 well Feb 10 17:00:00 not good enough Feb 10 17:00:05 consider the case of usb networking Feb 10 17:00:12 assume the user hasn't hacked their system Feb 10 17:00:19 they're "offline" = "not connected to wifi" Feb 10 17:00:26 and they have a network Feb 10 17:00:45 usbnet is officially supported? Feb 10 17:00:54 it should be possible using the requested api to determine you don't need to up a network in order to load http://server Feb 10 17:01:04 if server is mapped to an address which is routable via usb Feb 10 17:01:19 probably not Feb 10 17:01:31 but using servers on your device isn't officially supported either Feb 10 17:01:43 so don't try to exclude things just because of what's officially supported :) Feb 10 17:01:43 it should be possible using common sense to just try to connect() to the IP and if it fails ask the user to go online... Feb 10 17:02:02 ok, if you can resolve and it resolves into something you have a route for, then do not connect :) Feb 10 17:02:16 slonopotamus: need more coffee? Feb 10 17:02:22 you're using too many negatives Feb 10 17:02:37 errr...no. he's right timeless Feb 10 17:03:07 by 'do not connect' he means 'don't try to switch to online mode, just load the page' Feb 10 17:03:17 johnx, yes Feb 10 17:03:27 'connect' is overloaded with too many definitions in this conversation :) Feb 10 17:03:38 that's too long to type with onscreen kb Feb 10 17:03:50 * johnx offers interpretation services Feb 10 17:04:16 johnx, which languages do you translate? Feb 10 17:04:25 mine 'connect' == 'popup connection dialog and ask user to go online' Feb 10 17:05:03 lcuk, english into bad english, ESL -> JSL, and engrish into spanglish Feb 10 17:05:18 cool Feb 10 17:05:20 the funny thing is that it only needs to escape offline mode Feb 10 17:05:32 it=something (not(browser)) Feb 10 17:05:41 because browser works for the basic cases Feb 10 17:05:47 anyway Feb 10 17:05:56 i think the answer, having asked one of the older devs here Feb 10 17:06:04 current thing has 3 states, offline, not offline (but without connection) and online Feb 10 17:06:07 is because "someone wrote a spec that said " Feb 10 17:06:33 instead of letting engineers implement " Feb 10 17:06:45 nice Feb 10 17:06:46 the maemo apps are consistently implemented Feb 10 17:07:09 which is a fairly good indication there was a spec which said to do Feb 10 17:07:43 the browser fwiw, essentially has code which does something like leap, when leap fails, ask, when connected, leap again Feb 10 17:07:47 somehow state 1 and state 2 differ, so opening localhost pages works in 2 but not in 1 Feb 10 17:07:49 we needed it for wimax Feb 10 17:08:05 slonopotamus: in which application? Feb 10 17:08:31 because, i just had darkblue_b test it, and he indicated that it works for the browser in all the interesting states for all the basic addressables Feb 10 17:08:33 timeless, microb. that bug is about microb. Feb 10 17:08:46 yeah Feb 10 17:08:47 ok, have you actually tested it? Feb 10 17:08:51 because darkblue_b did Feb 10 17:08:53 and i did Feb 10 17:08:55 (ages ago) Feb 10 17:08:59 and it worked for both of us Feb 10 17:09:26 I was using microb.. the built in FF Feb 10 17:09:43 just a different web server Feb 10 17:09:54 qwerty12: yes, you're right Feb 10 17:10:03 s/FF/Gecko/ Feb 10 17:10:09 FF is a UI we don't include :) Feb 10 17:10:12 ok Gecko Feb 10 17:10:19 but that's ok :), you aren't expected to know that Feb 10 17:10:20 (I'm new) Feb 10 17:10:52 so I wont mention WebKit at all, not once Feb 10 17:11:28 thanks :) Feb 10 17:12:20 * timeless sighs Feb 10 17:12:26 Thunderbird in mer is slow Feb 10 17:12:33 and it doesn't fit Feb 10 17:12:47 Mozilla app in heavyweight runtime shocker ;-) Feb 10 17:12:58 did you really expect a different outcome? Feb 10 17:12:59 timeless, btw. i experienced this bug in microb when i changed default hostname Feb 10 17:13:30 127.0.0.1 n800.home.ru n800 localhost Feb 10 17:13:46 oh Feb 10 17:13:49 well, yeah, um.. Feb 10 17:13:53 and n800 in /etc/hostname Feb 10 17:14:05 as we said, the browser supports localhost because of a hack in browser Feb 10 17:14:13 and very little else because it was a hack which didn't belong Feb 10 17:14:23 because of a stupid UI/something spec elsewhere Feb 10 17:14:25 it's hardcoded to 'localhost'? Feb 10 17:14:26 and a lack of a useful api Feb 10 17:14:30 read the bug! Feb 10 17:14:34 i quoted the code! Feb 10 17:14:36 come on now Feb 10 17:14:41 how hard is it to read a bug? Feb 10 17:14:45 * timeless gets pissed Feb 10 17:14:47 calm down :) Feb 10 17:14:50 no. Feb 10 17:14:56 relax) Feb 10 17:14:58 you must be tall Feb 10 17:15:03 breathe deeply Feb 10 17:15:41 thunderbird also doesn't do a particularly good job of honoring system colors Feb 10 17:15:43 * timeless is using lcars Feb 10 17:16:21 which would be the reason at browser-ui exists instead of using firefox on maemo, right? Feb 10 17:16:49 the speed or the color stuff? Feb 10 17:16:59 yes, both. Feb 10 17:17:01 the reason the ui exists is because it predates gecko (we used opera) Feb 10 17:17:18 the reason it continues to exist is because switching is expensive and we have stopping inertia Feb 10 17:17:27 and to some extent the speed of Firefox isn't quite ready Feb 10 17:17:31 you really think they'd be using an XUL UI though? Feb 10 17:17:36 timeless, you use 'local connection' term. i'd prefer 'connection that we have existing route for' Feb 10 17:17:37 in maemo? Feb 10 17:17:40 keep in mind, i'm running Thunderbird in Mer Feb 10 17:17:43 in VMWare Feb 10 17:17:51 on an underpowered 3+ year old laptop Feb 10 17:18:07 when is thunderbird 3.0 coming? Feb 10 17:18:08 thunderbird isn't terribly fast running natively on an athlon 64 3000+ Feb 10 17:18:17 suihkulokki: irc://moznet/thunderbird Feb 10 17:18:19 thunderbird disappoints me in so many ways. Feb 10 17:18:23 timeless, icd... is it used in gnome for example? Feb 10 17:18:27 certainly not *slow* ... but noticeably unfast Feb 10 17:18:35 icd is a maemo 'innovation' Feb 10 17:18:41 oops, i think thunderbird killed itself Feb 10 17:18:44 timeless: I'm sure they'd slap me for a FAQ Feb 10 17:18:57 ouch Feb 10 17:18:58 slonopotamus, and represents 'competitive advantage' thus it's closed source (in part) Feb 10 17:19:00 timeless, you even have route-base program there Feb 10 17:19:15 johnx: and the fact it's scaringly, often, better than NetworkManager Feb 10 17:19:15 Out of memory: kill process 3964 (run-mozilla.sh) score 85175 or a child Feb 10 17:19:16 :P Feb 10 17:19:29 Stskeeps, heh, more expected than scaringly... Feb 10 17:19:31 Killed process 3968 (thunderbird-bin) Feb 10 17:19:43 that wasn't very nice of it Feb 10 17:19:47 * timeless was kinda using thunderbird Feb 10 17:19:52 couldn't it have killed fennec instead? Feb 10 17:19:56 Stskeeps, yes. however, nm-applet improves linearly with better drivers :) Feb 10 17:20:15 johnx: this is part of its competitive advantage :) Feb 10 17:20:16 johnx, does mer use icd? Feb 10 17:20:24 slonopotamus: thankfully mer does not :) Feb 10 17:20:28 since it's closed, they can't use it atm Feb 10 17:20:31 cool Feb 10 17:20:39 wait Feb 10 17:20:43 if they can't use it Feb 10 17:20:49 slonopotamus, nope. Stskeeps had a heroic battle with cx3110x and nm-applet and succeeded at the cost of a big chunk of his sanity Feb 10 17:20:49 * slonopotamus_ waits Feb 10 17:20:52 how would a maemo platform targetted app work? Feb 10 17:21:13 assume_connected=1 Feb 10 17:21:14 timeless, well... it will be made mer platform targetted :D Feb 10 17:21:16 * Stskeeps points to libconic Feb 10 17:21:22 dbus wrapper Feb 10 17:21:29 adapt libconic, deal done Feb 10 17:21:30 :P Feb 10 17:21:44 Stskeeps, does arrow keys work in vmware? Feb 10 17:21:48 speaking of which Feb 10 17:21:49 s/does/do/ Feb 10 17:21:49 qwerty12 meant: Stskeeps, do arrow keys work in vmware? Feb 10 17:21:53 qwerty12: .. i think so? Feb 10 17:21:53 libconic is something i should look at? Feb 10 17:21:56 qwerty: i use arrow keys... Feb 10 17:22:00 Stskeeps, not here :/ Feb 10 17:22:05 works here Feb 10 17:22:07 qwerty12: what app? Feb 10 17:22:14 vi... Feb 10 17:22:20 use vim Feb 10 17:22:21 oh right Feb 10 17:22:24 yeah, use vim Feb 10 17:22:33 hjkl Feb 10 17:22:39 or something are the 'arrow' keys in vi Feb 10 17:22:42 yep, hkjl :) Feb 10 17:22:47 qwerty12: yes, that makes me go beserk every time Feb 10 17:22:48 :P Feb 10 17:22:52 um Feb 10 17:22:53 sts? Feb 10 17:23:01 i don't have access to control panel/application manager in mer Feb 10 17:23:02 mm? Feb 10 17:23:05 any idea why not? :) Feb 10 17:23:36 timeless: not sure why, i have armel problems with HAM atm, some weirdass libapt-pkg stuff Feb 10 17:23:52 you on 0.7 image or 0.6 image? Feb 10 17:24:09 didn't i start on 0.7? Feb 10 17:24:17 how do i check? Feb 10 17:24:25 i've apt-get update'd/apt-get upgrade'd Feb 10 17:24:40 (this morning even) Feb 10 17:24:55 did you grab my core-dumps sysctl thing? Feb 10 17:25:02 not yet Feb 10 17:25:09 now i'm going to cook :P Feb 10 17:25:39 um Feb 10 17:25:54 /usr/bin/run-standalone.sh: /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh is not readable! Feb 10 17:25:59 * timeless wonders what the heck that means Feb 10 17:26:06 we have a run-standalone? :P Feb 10 17:26:23 timeless, part of the painful transition to sanity... Feb 10 17:26:26 hildon-initscripts: /usr/bin/run-standalone.sh Feb 10 17:26:39 hmm... Feb 10 17:26:48 well, um Feb 10 17:26:53 i can't seem to run application-manager Feb 10 17:28:56 can you try it from X terminal? Feb 10 17:29:13 in that case you shouldn't need to use run-standalone Feb 10 17:29:22 timeless: works for me, just apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade, rebooted Feb 10 17:32:01 sts: yeah, something corrupted for me Feb 10 17:32:05 any idea how to debug? Feb 10 17:32:56 no sorry, .xsession-errors is usually best bet these days Feb 10 17:33:04 could you include a little more information than that? Feb 10 17:33:56 dunno, what do you need? Feb 10 17:34:45 oddly, most things say "(no applications)" Feb 10 17:34:50 but Settings is just blank Feb 10 17:34:53 maybe the output of whatever command is complaing abooin? Feb 10 17:34:58 probably the category database got corrupted Feb 10 17:35:00 there is no output Feb 10 17:35:06 sounds reasonable Feb 10 17:35:09 johnx: missing items in application menu Feb 10 17:35:12 how do i destroy/rebuild the category database? Feb 10 17:35:17 ah Feb 10 17:35:53 in maemo, it's cp /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu /home/user/.osso/menus/ ; update-desktop-database Feb 10 17:36:39 $ update-desktop-database Feb 10 17:36:50 No directories in update-desktop-database search path could be processed and updated Feb 10 17:36:54 s/$/./ Feb 10 17:37:02 that error message is bad btw Feb 10 17:37:11 point it manually to /usr/share/applications (/hildon) ? Feb 10 17:37:16 andre__ re bug, thinking Feb 10 17:37:33 same error for both Feb 10 17:37:45 hrm, not good :/ Feb 10 17:38:05 timeless: out of disk space? Feb 10 17:38:29 avail=60m Feb 10 17:38:37 hmm :P Feb 10 17:38:39 andre__: that bug is still scheduled to be fixed Feb 10 17:38:46 works here Feb 10 17:39:09 * timeless grumbles Feb 10 17:39:12 scheduled to be fixed means there IS a schedule, or that it is NOT scheduled? Feb 10 17:39:21 it is already that way today Feb 10 17:39:24 yerga, happy birthday btw :) Feb 10 17:39:32 so it'd take a number of demons to cause it not to be fixed Feb 10 17:39:40 i suppose 'fixed in fremantle' Feb 10 17:39:44 fine Feb 10 17:39:47 thanks Feb 10 17:41:38 andre__: i presume the last bug i filed to you will go out to the debian or whichever team, right? Feb 10 17:43:21 haven't yet looked at the latest tickets, will do after dinner Feb 10 17:44:09 someone gave a pointer about where upstream was Feb 10 17:46:03 I have gpasman installed on my nokia n810 and when i reflashed i lost my passwords since they were not stored in MyDocs. However I have gpasman installed on my gnome box too so I copied the file over to my Nokia so I could load the file instead having to reenter them again. My problem is bad file permissions. I tried chown user passwords.gps and chmod 755 passwords.gps with no luck. Dont suppose anyone in here would know what to do? thanks. Feb 10 17:46:22 timeless, i don't think that's a gtk string Feb 10 17:46:28 it's free desktop Feb 10 17:46:33 or rather Feb 10 17:46:38 desktop-file-utils Feb 10 17:46:47 but i can't find that component in your maze of stupid products/components ;b Feb 10 17:47:44 oh Feb 10 17:47:45 oops Feb 10 17:47:53 it claims to be from the ubuntu desktop team Feb 10 17:47:56 i'll move it to mer Feb 10 17:47:58 sorry Feb 10 17:48:14 * timeless sighs Feb 10 17:49:18 guess it's from shared-mime-info Feb 10 17:49:49 It says Maintainer: Ubuntu Desktop Team Feb 10 17:50:03 Original-Maintainer: Ross Burton Feb 10 17:50:19 i can dump the package info to a file if you want it Feb 10 17:52:09 hmm. string is not in the package shared-mime-info 0.51 :-/ Feb 10 17:52:11 AFBN810: btw, when you're back on a stationary, let's talk mirroring :P Feb 10 17:52:35 the package is really desktop-file-utils Feb 10 17:52:40 i have 0.15 Feb 10 17:53:18 stskeeps I'm at my house one sec I'll get on desktop Feb 10 17:53:54 Hey Feb 10 17:53:57 timeless, yupp, found it Feb 10 17:54:28 * timeless shrugs Feb 10 17:54:34 309 is just noise anyway Feb 10 17:54:40 i already gave clean steps many comments back Feb 10 17:55:02 btw, re themes and microb Feb 10 17:55:07 most themes are horribly broken for maemo Feb 10 17:55:10 themes have two components Feb 10 17:55:13 bitmaps and text rules Feb 10 17:55:19 gecko tries to use the text rules Feb 10 17:55:25 which are usually incompatible w/ everything Feb 10 17:55:34 (including themselves) Feb 10 17:57:27 sorry, i'm not used to mixed environments, but that's why they pay you the big bucks :) Feb 10 17:57:36 (re mer/ubuntu/debian/maemo) Feb 10 17:58:11 uh, big bucks. need to search for them under my bed where the money is :-P Feb 10 17:58:31 andre__ needs a monthly donation of vodka and wine for all the work he does ;) Feb 10 17:58:52 well, i admit i do get paid for this :-P Feb 10 17:59:07 but additional vodka and wine... i won't say no Feb 10 17:59:10 hehe Feb 10 17:59:21 * qwerty12 would lol at someone doing andre__'s work voluntaryly :p Feb 10 17:59:46 if that's a word :/ Feb 10 18:01:05 Stskeeps, I'm here what you want to talk about Feb 10 18:01:06 qwerty12, hmm... i've been doing this already for years in gnome. so lol loudly at me now! ;-) Feb 10 18:01:28 * qwerty12 lol's at andre__ :P Feb 10 18:01:32 yay! Feb 10 18:01:52 AndrewFBlack: well, if you're willing to donate some space and bw for mer mirroring/hosting, it would be nice :P just to provide people with a better dl Feb 10 18:02:06 * qwerty12 wouldn't be a good bugmaster. "motherfucker, describe your bug properly fuckwit" Feb 10 18:02:22 gah. why doesn't my laptop have eggtimer.. Feb 10 18:02:23 yeah you can use all you want Feb 10 18:02:34 yeah, in the end, i explode at bug people Feb 10 18:02:59 Hello ! Feb 10 18:03:13 as long as people understand what a "bug tracker" is and the difference to a support forum i'm fine Feb 10 18:03:22 I'm trying an experiment to make gui with gtkhtml2 Feb 10 18:03:35 * timeless frowns Feb 10 18:03:37 i'm happy if i receive my daily hate mail by people :-P Feb 10 18:03:41 as you can see with this sample : http://pastebin.com/mca78bf1 Feb 10 18:03:43 do i care if someone has a theme path which is a symlink? Feb 10 18:03:47 oh stupid question.. Feb 10 18:03:51 hello khertan Feb 10 18:03:54 can someone be dumb enough to do: Feb 10 18:03:57 a -> b Feb 10 18:04:00 b -> c Feb 10 18:04:02 c -> b Feb 10 18:04:03 just let me know what login info you want for shh access to my server Feb 10 18:04:05 but i does there is a way to make the thing unselectable Feb 10 18:04:08 andre__, mind if I start the Andre's hate mail mailing list? :P Feb 10 18:04:12 and have a path set to /a/something Feb 10 18:04:19 and clicking is really difficult Feb 10 18:04:26 'lo lcuk Feb 10 18:04:42 qwerty12, go ahead. got some nice ones here, one day i'll publish them in a book if there's still paper in a few years :) Feb 10 18:04:51 lcuk: how do you recognize me ? Feb 10 18:04:51 * lcuk recognised you without your usual jacket Feb 10 18:05:11 intuition :) Feb 10 18:05:21 my english is so bad ? Feb 10 18:05:25 andre__, heh :/. I'm only joking, I love your work (even if I don't contribute much to bugzilla) :D Feb 10 18:05:31 no, it was the "Hello !" Feb 10 18:05:41 then talking about gtk ui ;) Feb 10 18:05:53 and also cos of your pastebin says "posted by khertan" Feb 10 18:05:55 or am i the only guy trying to display calendar on nit ? Feb 10 18:06:00 mib_ui9g20, switch off your webcam or add at least a password check - that was way too easy :-P Feb 10 18:06:01 no ive got one as well Feb 10 18:06:07 but mine will be handwritten Feb 10 18:06:15 oups burned !! Feb 10 18:06:24 it would be nice to have proper ical support as well :) Feb 10 18:07:12 onion: ping ? Feb 10 18:07:13 yeah ... ical import export is done but not debugged Feb 10 18:07:33 i saw your post about syncml - i agree ;) its way OTT Feb 10 18:07:51 i would have more fun getting hundreds of papercuts on my lower regions Feb 10 18:08:19 handwritten is well but a bit difficult for sync without implementing ocr Feb 10 18:08:44 not really - and besides, OCR cannot handle the marks and ticks that me and the missus do on our real calendar Feb 10 18:09:19 at this time i m making manyh gui experimentation :) like with gtkhtml2 Feb 10 18:09:22 if oyu have a real calendar on your wall which you and your GF sync, do you always use fully detailed train timetable entries Feb 10 18:09:31 or just say little things that mean something to YOU Feb 10 18:10:22 but still require a text date entry to order things and for alarm :) Feb 10 18:10:37 different problem, click on day say remind me Feb 10 18:10:41 andre__: hey, i did guess freedesktop, didn't i? Feb 10 18:10:46 on the day it shows you the day entry with an alarm Feb 10 18:10:48 job done Feb 10 18:10:49 i just couldn't find a way to file bugs for that in platform Feb 10 18:10:51 no need for ocr Feb 10 18:10:52 anyway,. thanks :) Feb 10 18:11:46 mib_ui9g20, but i agree, an proper cal ribbon below each day is a nice thing to add Feb 10 18:12:01 so there isn t any gtkhtml2 expert here ? Feb 10 18:12:30 khertan, you may have to try #gtk itself Feb 10 18:13:19 hum right Feb 10 18:14:43 hum seems not to be on freenode Feb 10 18:15:34 timeless, Stskeeps, theme switcher is a step closer. I can send the _GTK_READ_RCFILES signal and it works :) Feb 10 18:15:38 woo Feb 10 18:16:02 khertan #GTK+ Feb 10 18:17:08 timelE61i, any objections to me packaging your perl script? (lowercase thing is a dirty hack, considering that Titan for example uses Titan as directory) Feb 10 18:17:19 none Feb 10 18:17:19 s/timelE61i/timeless/ Feb 10 18:17:19 qwerty12 meant: timeless, any objections to me packaging your perl script? (lowercase thing is a dirty hack, considering that Titan for example uses Titan as directory) Feb 10 18:17:24 Cool, thanks. Feb 10 18:17:28 oh, i reply to timelE61i Feb 10 18:17:34 ah :) Feb 10 18:17:44 i was actually starting to clean up the code to have real variable names Feb 10 18:17:48 but if you have it working and all Feb 10 18:17:51 then i'll stop :) Feb 10 18:18:16 timeless, perl part I haven't really worked on :). It's just getting currently open windows to switch themes Feb 10 18:18:24 ok Feb 10 18:18:33 did you fix it to handle the cancel case? Feb 10 18:18:37 or do you want me to work on it? Feb 10 18:18:54 Could you work on it please, I don't know any perl :) Feb 10 18:19:29 "upstreamier" Feb 10 18:19:32 that's a new word. Feb 10 18:19:39 * timeless likes it Feb 10 18:19:41 Also, matchbox-remote invocation may need to be nicer, matchbox-remote wants the name of the folder the theme is in - not the name of the theme as defined in index.theme Feb 10 18:19:53 it does? Feb 10 18:19:56 yep Feb 10 18:19:58 that's not a problem Feb 10 18:20:00 i have that Feb 10 18:20:03 Wicked, thanks Feb 10 18:20:16 * timeless had serious issues figuring out WTF it wanted Feb 10 18:21:02 andre__: i think i'm about to file a bug about matchbox-remote :) Feb 10 18:21:42 matchbox-remote isnt used in fremantle probably, cos of libmatchbox2 Feb 10 18:21:48 (i would guess) Feb 10 18:22:08 the maintainer of matchbox in Mer is tapani palli Feb 10 18:22:16 and it claims to be 2:1.2-fremantle-osso18mer1 Feb 10 18:22:17 Nothing really uses it even in diablo, it's just a way for the user to send commands I guess Feb 10 18:22:34 so as far as i'm concerned, it's fair game for bug filing Feb 10 18:26:32 andre__: 4095 for your upstreaming pleasure :) Feb 10 18:27:10 heh...upstream to intel? Feb 10 18:27:22 Stskeeps, things are not looking strange any more, the lesson learned is when communicating with bme_RX-[34]4 you have to get in and then get out. No hanging around. open -- talk -- close Feb 10 18:27:28 they own matchbox? Feb 10 18:27:37 * timeless shrugs Feb 10 18:27:38 matchbox is o-hand Feb 10 18:27:44 heh, sure, why not? Feb 10 18:27:57 i'm in favor of a community which shares w/ everyone Feb 10 18:28:01 daperl: ah, yes Feb 10 18:28:08 that's a good way for nokia to contribute Feb 10 18:28:15 actually showing that downstreams can work w/ upstreams Feb 10 18:28:18 "It's a bug in the stupid ARM processor. matchbox --help works correctly on a core 2 duo." :D Feb 10 18:28:35 (it's very rare, especially amongst debian derivatives) Feb 10 18:30:17 Stskeeps, what do you want the theme-selector package to be called? I'll work on packaging the gtk_read_rcfiles program while I wait for timeless's fixes :) Feb 10 18:30:33 I may have answered my own question actually :/ Feb 10 18:30:38 qwerty12: .. hildon-theme-selector Feb 10 18:30:39 :P Feb 10 18:30:47 heh Feb 10 18:30:50 I swear I just thought of that :P Feb 10 18:32:42 qwerty: do i really need to poke matchbox-remote at all? Feb 10 18:32:52 and fwiw, it's not really liking me at all Feb 10 18:32:54 timeless, yep, to get titlebar theme changed Feb 10 18:33:16 and you said it wants a directory and not a theme name? Feb 10 18:33:32 hrm, no Feb 10 18:33:38 yep, not the whole /usr/share/themes/ , just Feb 10 18:33:38 a lowercase theme name seems to work Feb 10 18:33:44 ok Feb 10 18:33:48 Not for /usr/share/themes/Titan :) Feb 10 18:33:57 Stskeeps, you around> Feb 10 18:34:08 AndrewFBlack: yeah, but getting hot stuff out of the oven in a sec Feb 10 18:34:35 ok, my code works again Feb 10 18:36:25 Stskeeps, when you get a chance just give me the login details you want and I'll set you up Feb 10 18:36:27 ooh, now the big x asks me if i want to quit Feb 10 18:36:43 http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=263539#post263539 Just finished my tutorial on setting up LXDE for Mer Feb 10 18:36:59 um Feb 10 18:37:05 hildon-desktop is kinda stupid Feb 10 18:37:11 it's using a random icon for fennec Feb 10 18:37:16 first it used Xterm Feb 10 18:37:18 now it's using Xchat Feb 10 18:39:13 what's the easiest way to make a video call to PC from n800? Feb 10 18:39:35 gizmo Feb 10 18:40:23 mmm, matchbox. this will become my 13th bugzilla account it seems :-P Feb 10 18:40:54 andre, the human manifestation of a bugzilla Feb 10 18:40:54 :P Feb 10 18:41:01 shit... this damn ffmpeg install in osx is taking forever with ports Feb 10 18:41:03 Stskeeps, where did you get the other data structures on this page? Did someone from Nokia give it to you? http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol Feb 10 18:41:06 er.. darwinports Feb 10 18:41:21 daperl: tedious glancing at socket traffic Feb 10 18:41:31 nice... grep in scratchbox causes it to segfault... Feb 10 18:41:39 johnx: what about bulit-in SIP client? Feb 10 18:42:06 daperl: and use of FTD Feb 10 18:42:41 oli, that should work as well, but gizmo is what I have experience with Feb 10 18:43:21 daperl: there is a better way but i cant get my head around how hald-addon-bme does it Feb 10 18:43:44 Stskeeps, what do you mean? Feb 10 18:44:08 daperl: as in it is possible to ask BME to either make or connect to a unix socket where it sends async messages out Feb 10 18:44:38 which is obviously better than bulk polling Feb 10 18:45:45 as i have no clue which messages correspond to what, i'm not going to risk my tablet beyond the bulk polling of data, so :P Feb 10 18:46:20 um Feb 10 18:46:22 stupid question Feb 10 18:46:31 what settings does zenity use to decide how it paints things? Feb 10 18:46:54 what gtk theme to use or ...? Feb 10 18:47:00 yeah Feb 10 18:47:05 Stskeeps, what's FTD? and did you add stuff to the cbus driver to sniff stuff? Feb 10 18:47:16 it must be pulling from some env variable Feb 10 18:47:22 because i'm definitely seeing matchbox switch something Feb 10 18:47:32 but i'm not seeing zenity honor my theme Feb 10 18:48:10 um Feb 10 18:48:21 qwerty? Feb 10 18:48:28 for me, i have to do matchbox-remote -t Titan Feb 10 18:48:30 honor or honour? Feb 10 18:48:32 otherwise it doesn't work Feb 10 18:48:41 Stskeeps, "risking the tablet", when I said strange earlier I really meant scary Feb 10 18:48:41 slonopotamus: I'm an American, I speak en-US Feb 10 18:48:52 timeless, yep. Titan has the theme folder with a uppercase letter Feb 10 18:48:58 timeless, it's like color/colour? Feb 10 18:49:01 yes Feb 10 18:49:04 daperl: there's a reason i keep the BME communication to information gathering only, cos i have no idea what monsters hide in it Feb 10 18:49:11 timeless, k Feb 10 18:49:38 timeless, current gtk theme files get changed by your script and newly invoked gtk apps (in this case zenity) see the change Feb 10 18:50:19 timeless, getting the folder name of where the index.theme is stored will be enough for matchbox-remote Feb 10 18:51:03 qwerty: gotcha Feb 10 18:52:41 Stskeeps, well, who has the value-setting algorithms: hald-addon-bme or bme_RX-[34]4? If it's hald-addon-bme, which I suspect it is, shouldn't we move on? Feb 10 18:53:27 daperl: er? Feb 10 18:53:41 daperl: hald-addon-bme just pulls info from BME :) Feb 10 18:53:53 and we cannot get addon-bme, just bme, so Feb 10 18:54:02 if we had hald-addon-bme we wouldn't be having this conversation Feb 10 18:55:15 Stskeeps, I thought we were trying to replace hald-addon-bme Feb 10 18:56:03 yes we are Feb 10 18:56:34 so um Feb 10 18:56:43 could someone please tell me how to get zenity to honor my theme? Feb 10 18:58:04 timeless, are you running from an ssh session or from an xterm? Feb 10 18:58:22 xterm Feb 10 18:58:31 but for some reason my xterm didn't have DISPLAY set Feb 10 18:58:36 oh Feb 10 18:58:38 no, not true Feb 10 18:58:47 xterm; ssh root@127.1; su timeless Feb 10 18:58:52 so, ssh w/o x forwarding :) Feb 10 18:59:19 wow Feb 10 18:59:25 it works so much better just using a real xterm :) Feb 10 18:59:30 yes :) Feb 10 18:59:50 ok Feb 10 18:59:59 is it possible to get zenity to let people click on either column? Feb 10 19:00:06 right now y ou have to click the radio button, which isn't ideal Feb 10 19:00:20 probably not possible without modifying zenity Feb 10 19:00:33 qwerty: new picker on webwizardry.net/~timeless/ Feb 10 19:00:35 same zip Feb 10 19:00:47 BTW, themes work appropriately in start-hildon and first-boot-wizard...so whatever env vars are exported in those are a good starting point Feb 10 19:01:46 timeless, thanks Feb 10 19:04:23 ~man perl Feb 10 19:04:24 No manual entry for perl Feb 10 19:04:30 strange Feb 10 19:04:59 timeless: I downloaded binaries from maemo repos, and tried to run apt-get from local repo mirror. It showed some messages, but worked out. After that I launched hildon (ot whatever it is called) package manager. It showed application list (oh, finally!) but then it rewrote /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ with original contents and atopped working again. What should I change to prevent this? Feb 10 19:05:05 qwerty: one moment Feb 10 19:05:22 phantom: use a file name that isn't hildon*.list Feb 10 19:05:27 anything *.list in that dir is honored Feb 10 19:05:54 qwerty: grab it again Feb 10 19:06:22 Yeah, I know the filename. But contents of hildon*.list was rewritten by GUI package manager after I launched it. Feb 10 19:06:23 it should no longer break if you cancel Feb 10 19:06:35 i'll get to debianising it in 30m Feb 10 19:06:35 yeah, but that file is owned by ham Feb 10 19:06:53 any file in that dir ending in .list will be read and used Feb 10 19:07:08 there's an xml file elsewhere if you actually want to influence ham's ui Feb 10 19:07:16 * timeless has hacked it at times Feb 10 19:07:28 mxr.maemo.org has sources for ham if you want to read... Feb 10 19:07:55 * timeless wonders what "Can't play media streams" means Feb 10 19:07:59 It is really disappointing when it behaves as it wished instead of following written instructions. Feb 10 19:08:11 * timeless shrugs Feb 10 19:08:22 you're misusing it :) Feb 10 19:08:34 now would someone please tell me what magic i need to let ham even run on my box? Feb 10 19:09:23 timeless, if you launch it from an xterm (without being sshed into localhost!) does it return without printing anything? Feb 10 19:09:33 correct Feb 10 19:09:43 I had the same problem on a .6 image Feb 10 19:09:51 any fix? Feb 10 19:10:04 if you are able to test a vanilla .7 image that would be helpful Feb 10 19:10:30 * timeless ponders Feb 10 19:10:37 lsb_release just says ubuntu jaunty 9.04 Feb 10 19:10:38 or I'll test one :) Feb 10 19:10:49 how do i know what version of mer i have? Feb 10 19:11:16 one sec. logging into a mer box :) Feb 10 19:11:37 i mean, i have a 2g rootfs w/ 1.1g used Feb 10 19:11:44 i don't really feel like zipping it :) Feb 10 19:13:20 ah, this might give us a clue. run: groups Feb 10 19:13:22 as your user Feb 10 19:14:07 timeless adm audio video plugdev users netdev admin Feb 10 19:14:22 seems like a .7 image... Feb 10 19:14:32 I'll reboot into mer and follow along Feb 10 19:14:34 that's what i thought Feb 10 19:19:19 I take it your menu still doesn't work? Feb 10 19:22:00 try it as hildon-application-manager.launch Feb 10 19:22:01 my menu is 90% borked Feb 10 19:22:04 i've tried Feb 10 19:22:18 oh Feb 10 19:22:20 actually Feb 10 19:22:22 that worked Feb 10 19:22:24 but um Feb 10 19:22:27 the icon is broken Feb 10 19:22:30 it's showing xterm :) Feb 10 19:23:08 the score so far: running as hildon-application-manager doesn't work for me either. I do have the correct icon however Feb 10 19:23:18 i'm using some other theme Feb 10 19:23:21 probably lcars Feb 10 19:23:32 yeah, I'm thinking your icon issues might be related to menu or theme issues Feb 10 19:23:37 nope, okuda Feb 10 19:24:11 hrm Feb 10 19:24:15 it seems i picked titan Feb 10 19:24:18 and wow Feb 10 19:24:23 these themes kinda mostly work Feb 10 19:24:25 * timeless is impressed Feb 10 19:25:02 * timeless should install the rest of diablo into mer and see how it looks Feb 10 19:25:18 (yes, mer-x86) Feb 10 19:25:48 might want to do a snapshot of your vm first :) Feb 10 19:26:05 i'm assuming my problem is caused by the desktop-db corruption Feb 10 19:26:14 nah, everything that matters came from swift Feb 10 19:26:21 well, you know what they say about assumptions... Feb 10 19:26:28 anyone know what MathJinni is? Feb 10 19:28:24 is mathjinni in garage? Feb 10 19:28:28 it's in maemo extras Feb 10 19:34:29 ~lart fragmentation in consumer-oriented embedded linux distros Feb 10 19:34:29 * infobot decapitates fragmentation in consumer-oriented embedded linux distros conan the destroyer style Feb 10 19:34:29 andre__: so... i think i'm just going to create components for a bunch of extras, one bug at a time :) Feb 10 19:36:04 will the authors see them? Feb 10 19:36:30 um, that's andre__'s problem Feb 10 19:36:34 hmmm? Feb 10 19:36:36 what authors? Feb 10 19:36:43 visit bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Extras Feb 10 19:36:48 there's now a MathJinni Feb 10 19:36:55 because the author couldn't spell 'and' correctly Feb 10 19:37:20 authors of the packages in extras.. are the bugs fwded or? Feb 10 19:37:22 timeless, did the maintainers request to create the products/components in maemo.org bugzilla? Feb 10 19:37:29 no Feb 10 19:37:37 do they know about it? Feb 10 19:37:46 but i'd rather they just get components and have someone like you or sts or gan tell them about it Feb 10 19:37:58 doesn't make sense and i'm against this Feb 10 19:38:03 in debian if you have a package, and you get a bug, a component like thing automagically happens Feb 10 19:38:07 e.g. if maintainers already have a bugtracker somewhere Feb 10 19:38:10 like in garage Feb 10 19:38:17 we promised to close garage Feb 10 19:38:24 who's "we"? Feb 10 19:38:36 i just said "for those willing to move" Feb 10 19:38:46 https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Garage_bug_tracking_in_Bugzilla Feb 10 19:39:05 yupp, longterm. but seems we disagree about the path to get there ;-0 Feb 10 19:39:12 oops, should have been ;-) Feb 10 19:39:38 i don't see maemo.org bugzilla as a place to file bugs that will most likely get ignored if there's no backing by the maintainers Feb 10 19:39:40 well, i promise not to migrate more than 10 a week :) Feb 10 19:39:47 still it does not make sense Feb 10 19:39:54 * timeless ponders Feb 10 19:39:59 i'm not going to file bugs in garage Feb 10 19:40:13 if you want a single dumping ground 'misc' and for me to file bugs there, i can do that Feb 10 19:40:17 "ah, i dislike the Notepad in Windows XP. Let me set up an item for it in a Bugzilla installation." ? Feb 10 19:40:25 hmm Feb 10 19:40:31 if we ship notepad.exe, yes. Feb 10 19:40:34 (in extras) Feb 10 19:40:36 if the maintainers are fine with it okay Feb 10 19:40:41 if not it's useless Feb 10 19:40:52 then take "Microsoft Word 2007" ;-) Feb 10 19:40:55 eep Feb 10 19:41:00 Select location appeared Feb 10 19:41:02 and seems to maybe work? Feb 10 19:41:12 what's this world coming to? Feb 10 19:41:51 thopiekar: yeah, fixed it earlier Feb 10 19:41:58 timeless, i only want products in Extras if and only if the maintainers do care about the incoming reports. Feb 10 19:42:06 otherwise it's just noise. Feb 10 19:42:12 andre__: i only wnat things in extras if they care Feb 10 19:42:17 if they don't care, i want them out of extras :) Feb 10 19:42:36 libtool2 vs libtool1 fucks up a -lot- of things in maemo launcher using stuff Feb 10 19:42:37 and i like using bugzillas to show whether someone cares Feb 10 19:42:37 timeless, yupp. solve that first, then come back to me :) Feb 10 19:42:58 * timeless ponders Feb 10 19:43:10 bugzilla doesn't have a way of having 'closed for new entry; read this' Feb 10 19:43:11 if you do know that the maintainers will care about the reports, then i'm more than fine with creating a product in maemo.org bugzilla Feb 10 19:43:15 it just has 'closed for new entry' Feb 10 19:43:24 otherwise i'm not Feb 10 19:43:51 andre__: can we delete the media converter thing by nokia? Feb 10 19:43:53 Hello ! Feb 10 19:43:55 by that logic, it doesn't belong Feb 10 19:43:56 again :) Feb 10 19:43:59 i know they don't care :) Feb 10 19:44:25 timeless, problem is that it's currently not maintained, yupp Feb 10 19:44:41 yes, the logic is right. but i prefer "do not make the same mistake *again*" with stressing "again" Feb 10 19:44:50 heh Feb 10 19:44:59 i don't support "let's delete that component and remove the submitted reports" :) Feb 10 19:45:11 oh, i don't believe in deleting Feb 10 19:45:16 but i do believe in track records Feb 10 19:45:24 if we close media converter Feb 10 19:45:34 i can use it to show "those guys from nokia can't be trusted to maintain their stuff Feb 10 19:45:45 - if they ask for another product, we won't give it to them Feb 10 19:45:52 - and we certainly won't do it w/o a discussion Feb 10 19:45:53 " Feb 10 19:46:16 gah Feb 10 19:46:20 i can't install omweather Feb 10 19:46:26 sts: who's working on that? :( Feb 10 19:46:27 heh... yeah :-/ Feb 10 19:46:37 bugzilla is good for track records Feb 10 19:46:47 similarly, if some guy tries to push to extras Feb 10 19:46:52 timeless: requires liblocation Feb 10 19:47:00 i'd like to be able to say "no, you aren't maintaining your bugs" Feb 10 19:47:11 sts: yes... Feb 10 19:47:34 Can't install omweather. Feb 10 19:47:41 Some necessary packages are not available. Feb 10 19:47:41 -- Feb 10 19:47:47 anyone have suggestions for the wording? Feb 10 19:47:53 * timeless doesn't like 'necessary packages' Feb 10 19:47:57 required? Feb 10 19:48:22 the following packages are not available Feb 10 19:48:29 Stskeeps, probably could be removed - it's for gps which isn't essential Feb 10 19:48:38 and technically its not a bug yet. it can be resolved as works in diablo :P Feb 10 19:48:40 qwerty: correct Feb 10 19:49:04 lcuk: this thing doesn't say which aren't available Feb 10 19:49:08 you have to click details for that Feb 10 19:49:10 * khertan will going crazing trying to found an "sexy" way to render a calendar on maemo ! Feb 10 19:49:20 khertan: liqbase Feb 10 19:49:23 Stskeeps, You try loging in yet? Feb 10 19:49:56 timeless: i mean a real calendar not just only three line linked together to display a box Feb 10 19:49:58 gah, i can't install maemopadplus either Feb 10 19:50:08 :) Feb 10 19:50:09 from maemo extras in mer? Feb 10 19:50:18 johnx: i guess so Feb 10 19:50:26 it wants wpeditor0 Feb 10 19:50:29 you guess so? Feb 10 19:50:36 Can't install maemopadplus; Feb 10 19:50:36 where are you getting maemopadplus from? Feb 10 19:50:38 timeless, apt-get source :> Feb 10 19:50:43 it needs: wpeditor0 (>= 2.12-0) Feb 10 19:50:55 johnx: how should i know? ham won't tell me :) Feb 10 19:51:01 wpeditor is open btw Feb 10 19:51:01 (someone please file a bug!) Feb 10 19:51:37 ...and crap, rewriting empty lines in editor and modest Feb 10 19:51:38 khertan, its actually quite a complex object tree. broken into weeks and days and with a display area and a title header Feb 10 19:51:57 quite similar to html actually :) Feb 10 19:52:06 * lcuk hugs a tree Feb 10 19:52:38 timeless, did you add the maemo extras repo to h-a-m in ner? Feb 10 19:52:56 is that how you're trying to install maemopadplus? Feb 10 19:52:57 dunno? :) Feb 10 19:53:03 i'm using ham to try Feb 10 19:53:15 * timeless kicks titan Feb 10 19:53:16 maemopadplus isn't in mer repos AFAIK... Feb 10 19:53:19 johnx, Stskeeps had maemopadplus right at the start - wonder why it wont install now Feb 10 19:53:29 lcuk, maemopad != maemopadplus Feb 10 19:53:31 :) Feb 10 19:53:33 ahhh Feb 10 19:53:43 difference? (and dont say plus:P) Feb 10 19:53:52 i h ave diablo extras and diablo extras-devel Feb 10 19:53:55 if that's what you're asking Feb 10 19:54:09 timeless, ok, that's not gonna work for the most part Feb 10 19:54:11 also mer alpha Feb 10 19:54:22 johnx: because? Feb 10 19:54:35 because mer != diablo Feb 10 19:54:54 why not? :) Feb 10 19:55:08 actually it works for everyone else but you :) Feb 10 19:55:25 there's a special if [ $USER = timeless ] ; then fail ; fi Feb 10 19:55:48 * timeless wonders what a distribution is Feb 10 19:55:53 ping ? Feb 10 19:56:36 hi khertan Feb 10 19:57:03 ? Feb 10 19:57:08 hum ... strange lag Feb 10 19:57:20 hi timeless Feb 10 19:57:22 again :) Feb 10 19:57:23 pong Feb 10 19:57:50 qwerty: how's that thing going? Feb 10 19:57:54 * timeless really wants theme switching Feb 10 19:57:57 (for running apps) Feb 10 19:59:04 aww, i can't install mediabox Feb 10 19:59:10 timeless, well, making a source package that generates packages based on indep & arch rule on a tablet takes a while :) Feb 10 19:59:20 it needs libsdl1.2, libsdl1.2, libid3-3.8.3, libid3-3.8.3 Feb 10 19:59:37 anyone know why ham listed those things twice? Feb 10 19:59:57 nice Feb 10 20:00:23 mntes needs libbluetooth2 (>=3.9-oso1), libbluetooth2 (>= 3.28), libbluetooth2 (>= 3.28) Feb 10 20:00:24 Hi, i just installed mer 0.7 and when it rebooted ( installed finished ) all i get is nokia logo Feb 10 20:00:29 it doesnt seem to get past that point Feb 10 20:00:38 nokia turns off evantually Feb 10 20:01:00 (Nokia N800) Feb 10 20:02:05 * timeless is impressed Feb 10 20:02:13 pidgin bonjour support seems to install Feb 10 20:02:27 Stskeeps: you here? Feb 10 20:02:46 zakkm: does that include a progress bar? Feb 10 20:02:52 no Feb 10 20:02:57 just the fisrt logo Feb 10 20:02:59 that says NOKIA Feb 10 20:03:04 and then it switches off Feb 10 20:03:22 aww, it fails to install Feb 10 20:03:39 doesnt even get to boot loader though Feb 10 20:03:58 zakkm, did bootmenu seem to install ok? Feb 10 20:04:03 perfectly Feb 10 20:04:08 it said press enter for reboot Feb 10 20:04:13 i did enter.. by onscreen keyboard Feb 10 20:04:18 it rebooted and now just the logo Feb 10 20:04:21 johnx: ^ Feb 10 20:04:42 it just does the blue nokia logo .. and then switch off after like 15secnds Feb 10 20:04:43 hmm Feb 10 20:04:46 that's pretty odd Feb 10 20:05:02 timeless, what is osso-pick-theme licenced under? Feb 10 20:05:06 you know the backup of initfs? Feb 10 20:05:09 MIT or PD Feb 10 20:05:11 it said failed backup, but it continued fine Feb 10 20:05:13 pick the license you prefer Feb 10 20:05:44 I don't have a preference, mind if I just say it can be dual licenced? :) Feb 10 20:06:02 i'm not sure if that's possible Feb 10 20:06:04 pd=public domain Feb 10 20:06:10 yeah.. Feb 10 20:06:12 johnx : if i plug into usb.. it goes fine in the host mode is it called Feb 10 20:06:12 it should release it from having an owner of sorts Feb 10 20:06:20 i prefer PD i think Feb 10 20:06:26 so if you're willing to package it that way :) Feb 10 20:06:30 zakkm, you mean into "flash update" mode? Feb 10 20:06:31 otherwise, just mark it MIT Feb 10 20:06:36 MIT should be compatible w/ everything Feb 10 20:06:36 yeah Feb 10 20:06:45 where i hold home and power button when boot Feb 10 20:06:49 timeless, ok :) Feb 10 20:06:58 timeless, if you release it PD he can just relicense it :) Feb 10 20:07:05 so i am able to reflash it.. but i would like not to have to Feb 10 20:07:31 zakkm, do you have a linux desktop to flash it with? Feb 10 20:07:35 mac Feb 10 20:07:40 can put in a linux livecd? Feb 10 20:07:41 johnx: true Feb 10 20:07:44 good enough :) Feb 10 20:07:52 i dont want to reflash though Feb 10 20:07:53 :( Feb 10 20:08:02 i dont want to lose everything Feb 10 20:08:03 right, so you jsut reflash Nokia's initfs :) Feb 10 20:08:14 could mac do that? Feb 10 20:08:19 yes Feb 10 20:08:22 i dont have the image tho Feb 10 20:08:28 have you used the command line flasher before? Feb 10 20:08:32 yes Feb 10 20:08:43 ok, I'll try and walk you through it Feb 10 20:08:57 so, is someone going to package libsdl? Feb 10 20:09:06 do i need the rx-34/44 image? Feb 10 20:09:33 zakkm, yup. get the one that matches whatever you have installed right now. you have the latest version of diablo, right? Feb 10 20:09:42 yes Feb 10 20:09:44 * timeless cries Feb 10 20:09:50 timeless, ubuntu probably has already... Feb 10 20:09:50 i can't even install User Guides Feb 10 20:09:51 like to stay uptodate Feb 10 20:10:01 they need osso-core-config Feb 10 20:10:10 timeless, you actually read them? :) Feb 10 20:10:11 could it of failed cause i had bootmenu installed previously? Feb 10 20:10:13 johnx: why doesn't ham find it? Feb 10 20:10:13 zakkm, ok, so grab the latest image Feb 10 20:10:24 qwerty: well, i need something to break my pdf viewer Feb 10 20:10:31 timeless, your package probably depends on a slightly different version Feb 10 20:10:37 timeless, ah :) Feb 10 20:11:10 just posted a how to for setting up lxde on mer and then found out fatalsaint already posted the exact same thing on him blog lol Feb 10 20:11:20 johnx: downloading now, says 18min remaining Feb 10 20:11:33 what would the command roughly look like? Feb 10 20:11:57 * johnx plays with the linux flasher to see. one sec... Feb 10 20:12:27 i used 1.9.4-mer5 or something merinstaller.. by the way Feb 10 20:13:28 Stskeeps, hmm, what would you think if I patch hildon-desktop to run timeless's theme selector instead? Or I guess, a more universal way is for me to make a control panel applet that runs the theme switcher I guess.. Feb 10 20:13:42 zakkm, ok, so first you want to run: ./flasher-2 --unpack Feb 10 20:14:12 qwerty12_N800, or to have it run from the menu under settings? Feb 10 20:14:18 ok Feb 10 20:14:39 I don't know if there's a final decision about 'control panel' ... Feb 10 20:14:45 qwerty: hildon-desktop tries to run some app Feb 10 20:14:46 johnx, I'd rather have it integrated with hd as it is in maemo Feb 10 20:14:49 if you use the home menu Feb 10 20:15:01 i'm assuming that's some app name Feb 10 20:15:04 just use the same name Feb 10 20:15:15 timeless, it uses osso_cp_plugin_execute to run libpersonalise.so Feb 10 20:15:21 oh fsck Feb 10 20:15:27 ah i wanted mer to work :(] Feb 10 20:15:32 well Feb 10 20:15:33 um Feb 10 20:15:42 I could make my own libpersonalise.so that runs the theme switcher? Feb 10 20:15:45 make a libpersonalise.so which checks its .so name Feb 10 20:15:55 zakkm, well, just hang in there a little bit, and hopefully we can get you all set up :) Feb 10 20:15:56 and then reads a conf file to find out which script it should run Feb 10 20:16:03 that'd let us replace other stubs similarly Feb 10 20:16:13 RX-34 ... .says 14 min remaining for download, got slow internet Feb 10 20:16:32 anyone here know if usb keyboard for nokia is a good idea? Feb 10 20:16:39 woohoo Feb 10 20:16:42 * timeless can install userguides Feb 10 20:16:51 tabletschool site said it works but i remember hearing bluetooth keyboard was slow so i was wondering if usb had that same problem Feb 10 20:16:52 um, is it bad if i get sysvinit in Mer ? :) Feb 10 20:17:15 * timeless really wonders why user guides need sysvinit Feb 10 20:17:24 upstart not good enough for you, eh? :p Feb 10 20:17:35 qwerty12_N800: go ahead Feb 10 20:17:46 zakkm, there are a couple factors that make it slow, but in some cases a USB keyboard has speed issues as well Feb 10 20:17:56 it only matters if you're typing really fast though Feb 10 20:18:21 i type around 60wpm? Feb 10 20:18:26 50-60 Feb 10 20:18:45 qwerty: i want those pdf's :) Feb 10 20:18:46 i want to use it for school, and i cant afford a netbook :P Feb 10 20:19:05 would just like to use abiword app or leafpad.. and type with a usb keyboard Feb 10 20:19:06 sp3000: you still here? Feb 10 20:19:15 Stskeeps, I'll try on the control panel applet first as changing h-d code takes you a bit away from upstream for a important component Feb 10 20:19:19 k Feb 10 20:19:20 timeless, hehe :) Feb 10 20:19:40 zakkm, in some cases you might have the screen lagging behind you then...it's slowest for me when typing into webforms. in text editors it's usually just fine Feb 10 20:19:48 Stskeeps: would you know why after installing mer.. i just get a NOKIA logo and then my tablet turns off? Feb 10 20:19:54 andre__: ok, now i can install maemopadplus Feb 10 20:20:01 yeah it would just be for text editors Feb 10 20:20:04 * timeless dances around Feb 10 20:20:11 zakkm: tablet type? Feb 10 20:20:16 n800 Feb 10 20:20:22 zakkm, you sure the battery isn't dead? Feb 10 20:20:22 hmm Feb 10 20:20:25 yess Feb 10 20:20:26 100% Feb 10 20:20:31 :/ Feb 10 20:20:37 zakkm: no good clue, you used installer? Feb 10 20:20:43 like 100% charged minus the battery loss from rebooting Feb 10 20:20:44 yes Feb 10 20:20:47 it was in check for updates Feb 10 20:20:52 1.9.4-mer5 or soemthing Feb 10 20:21:21 Stskeeps, qwerty12_N800, apparently bootmenu install told him that it failed to backup if that provides a clue... Feb 10 20:21:33 failed to backup initfs. Feb 10 20:21:37 timeless: yah Feb 10 20:21:47 it did that twhen i installed bootmenu though previously.. and bootmenu worked fine Feb 10 20:21:51 zakkm: out of space Feb 10 20:21:55 ^ Feb 10 20:21:59 it didnt fail, just out of space to backup Feb 10 20:22:06 sp3000: wanna see mer w/ a real set of apps? :) Feb 10 20:22:16 zakkm: it probably screwed up initfs then Feb 10 20:22:17 " do you want to backup current initfs" Feb 10 20:22:22 * timeless is on a shopping spreee Feb 10 20:22:24 -e Feb 10 20:22:35 timeless: brought in maemo extras? Feb 10 20:22:42 no, brought in diablo :) Feb 10 20:22:45 hehe Feb 10 20:22:49 now extras actually installs :) Feb 10 20:23:21 * johnx predicts timeless' mer install won't come back after the next reboot :> Feb 10 20:23:29 zakkm, tried flashing back the original initfs from the image? (although I guess that's where johnx is heading looking at scrollback :)) Feb 10 20:23:45 yeah, download for 43-7 says about 6 minutes remaining Feb 10 20:23:52 libsdl and python (cairo/dbus) had issues :( Feb 10 20:24:42 yeah, im really surprised how much stuff uses libsdl Feb 10 20:24:51 i did same excersise with extras yesterday Feb 10 20:24:55 * timeless grumbles Feb 10 20:25:03 * timeless still doesn't have libsdl1.2 Feb 10 20:26:09 woohoo, omweather! Feb 10 20:26:22 stskeeps: my guess is libsdl1.2 was replaced by libsdl or something similar Feb 10 20:26:23 wow! Feb 10 20:26:27 lcas finally looks ok Feb 10 20:26:32 or something sane maybe Feb 10 20:26:38 is WIkipedia Offline Reader.. any good? Feb 10 20:26:39 installing omweather *fixed* h-d! Feb 10 20:26:50 haha :P Feb 10 20:27:21 ooh, i have most of a working system Feb 10 20:27:22 this rocks Feb 10 20:27:48 * timeless changes background to an lcars one Feb 10 20:29:21 err, OpenLieroX is actually going to try to install? Feb 10 20:29:33 johnx: what do i do after unpack? Feb 10 20:29:34 you never know about some of these apps really Feb 10 20:30:46 zakkm, alright, next try: ./flasher-2 -f --initfs initrd -R Feb 10 20:31:17 unpack didnt do anything? Feb 10 20:31:49 brother Feb 10 20:31:57 OpenLieroX's English needs help Feb 10 20:32:05 andre__: find me the guy who owns it? Feb 10 20:32:11 what? Feb 10 20:32:15 zakkm, it should have created a whole bunch of new files in that directory Feb 10 20:32:16 OpenLieroX Feb 10 20:32:21 shrug. google? Feb 10 20:32:33 onesec Feb 10 20:32:46 timeless, the first link in google looks useful - sf.net Feb 10 20:32:48 http://pastebin.com/m2c2ed6b Feb 10 20:33:03 aww, i'd have to find my sf account Feb 10 20:33:19 zakkm, and what does ls say afterwards? Feb 10 20:33:26 nobody added Feb 10 20:33:41 flasher didnt unpack Feb 10 20:34:29 supply -F argument too Feb 10 20:34:40 ah. thanks qwerty12_N800 :) Feb 10 20:35:08 where do i add the -F? Feb 10 20:35:10 ./flasher-2.0-macosx -u -F RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Feb 10 20:35:15 yep Feb 10 20:35:36 qwerty12_N800, you handle the remembering. I'll handle the text expansion :) Feb 10 20:35:39 there we go :) Feb 10 20:35:50 oh, sorry, thought that was zakkm confirming :) Feb 10 20:36:15 xchat colours your nicks the same :) Feb 10 20:36:16 why sorry? seems to be a fine division of labor :) Feb 10 20:36:20 it unpacked Feb 10 20:36:28 :) Feb 10 20:36:44 ./flasher-2.0.macosx -f --initfs initrd -R Feb 10 20:36:47 initrd not found Feb 10 20:37:00 instead of initrd do initfs.jffs2 Feb 10 20:37:15 oh Feb 10 20:37:19 sooo: ./flasher-2.0.macosx -f --initfs initfs.jffs2 -R Feb 10 20:37:21 libsdl1.2 had a conflict Feb 10 20:38:06 timeless, not exactly surprising :) Feb 10 20:38:15 its flashing Feb 10 20:38:17 wow fast Feb 10 20:38:23 yup. just the initfs Feb 10 20:38:31 now it looks like its booting maemo Feb 10 20:38:39 yeah it is Feb 10 20:38:44 yup. that'll get you back to square one at least :) Feb 10 20:38:54 now its back to it sold self Feb 10 20:39:02 now, before you try mer again, free up a little more space on your tablet :) Feb 10 20:39:04 going to try it again ;p Feb 10 20:39:06 ohh Feb 10 20:39:07 okay Feb 10 20:39:23 its all apps though :( Feb 10 20:39:49 nothing is on it but apps ;p Feb 10 20:39:51 * qwerty12_N800 swears by localepurge :) Feb 10 20:39:51 actually, I found that I had a lot of cruft building up in my home directory on my tablet Feb 10 20:40:08 should i use df in terminal? Feb 10 20:40:23 a couple MB in .thumbnails and a couple in .microb (maybe?) Feb 10 20:40:32 du -h Feb 10 20:41:03 31k in thumbails Feb 10 20:41:05 i so need a bigger tablet occasionally.. Feb 10 20:41:59 nice mer logo by the way :) Feb 10 20:42:01 * Stskeeps wouldn't mind not using paper at all but .. Feb 10 20:42:02 :P Feb 10 20:42:15 archos is working on a tablet running android it seems. maybe that will make a nice open system to run whatever flavor of linux we want... Feb 10 20:42:23 simple install or addvanced? Feb 10 20:42:27 i chose simple before Feb 10 20:42:42 archos and a open device? :) Feb 10 20:42:53 sts/gan: um Feb 10 20:42:55 zakkm, if you didn't free up another 5MB of space just now, don't even start installing mer again :P Feb 10 20:43:06 could ham *please* offer "Installed applications" in a category view Feb 10 20:43:11 i freed up 5mb Feb 10 20:43:12 if there are *too* many apps? Feb 10 20:43:18 well roughly Feb 10 20:43:25 qwerty12_N800, yeah, would be madness, huh? Feb 10 20:43:25 it was like 2.2 + 1.8 + 1.8 Feb 10 20:43:34 ill quickly delete a app Feb 10 20:43:43 alright should be enough Feb 10 20:44:02 timeless: hehe. feel free to add to sprint list. it could potentially be an issue with mer day-to-day use, yes :) Feb 10 20:44:04 however, if bootmenu install fails to backup initfs. then bail out, ok? Feb 10 20:44:09 * qwerty12_N800 doesn't like archos, they're fucking tramps. everything is a extra and they try to sell you things - like if you charge first time, you'll be notified about their charging stand Feb 10 20:44:10 ok Feb 10 20:44:19 url=stskeeps... / 0.7/mer-armel.... Feb 10 20:44:20 johnx, hehe Feb 10 20:44:49 I've been looking at linux-based e-ink devices too Feb 10 20:45:06 * johnx is starting to get the 'new gadget' cravings Feb 10 20:45:28 johnx: i finally have a f-f adaptor so i can start looking sanely at usb host problems :P Feb 10 20:45:34 (actually, i have 3) Feb 10 20:45:42 got two beagleboards at work to treat Feb 10 20:45:44 stskeeps can you see how fast usb keyboards work in that ;p Feb 10 20:45:50 doesn't rain but it pours, huh? Feb 10 20:47:02 okay i have about 15mb freed Feb 10 20:48:10 good. that should be just fine Feb 10 20:48:18 anyone know how to run /usr/bin/hildon-update-category-database ? Feb 10 20:48:22 dang its going to redownload isnt it Feb 10 20:48:47 timeless: cant you just type that? Feb 10 20:48:56 no, it wants one arg Feb 10 20:49:03 and i don't understand that one arg Feb 10 20:49:38 timeless, hildon-update-category-database /usr/share/mime Feb 10 20:50:21 um Feb 10 20:50:34 control panel triggered an app which tried to ask my terminal for my password Feb 10 20:50:49 sudo mismatch maybe Feb 10 20:50:54 sounds right Feb 10 20:51:12 Stskeeps: how much was the f to f adapter? Feb 10 20:51:39 zakkm: well it was bloody difficult to get it in .dk, so i paid like 2.5 dollars i think Feb 10 20:51:49 only found one place that had them sanely Feb 10 20:52:00 everywhre i looked had it for like 5.99 im like -.- Feb 10 20:52:02 so um Feb 10 20:52:14 anyone know how to uninstall nspr4? :) Feb 10 20:52:19 was suppose to be on my way to get one, but mer failed ;p Feb 10 20:52:34 timeless: trying to make a minimalistic install ?:P Feb 10 20:52:46 zakkm: i think he's doing the opposite.. slap diablo on top of mer Feb 10 20:52:58 Stskeeps, I sense a new business venture in Denmark:> :P Feb 10 20:53:01 zakkm: no, trying to convert from jaunty to diablo Feb 10 20:53:36 qwerty12_N800: if they would market the tablet+usb hub+keyboard combination.. Feb 10 20:54:15 johnx: oh, while i have you Feb 10 20:54:18 i think the tablet would be so cool if i could afford a bluetooth/ have a f-to-f adapter Feb 10 20:54:19 Do you want to be able to get f to f adapters in Denmark or not?!? :p Feb 10 20:54:32 Stskeeps, yes? Feb 10 20:55:01 johnx: saw gonftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/osso/inputmethod/keyboard_available true|false on jaiku? it solves the enter problem Feb 10 20:55:09 but it isn't automatically set to true when a keyboard is attached Feb 10 20:55:14 ah, nice Feb 10 20:55:26 true when a keyboard is present in some way Feb 10 20:55:28 hmm...more adventures with lshal may be in order Feb 10 20:55:36 udev? :) Feb 10 20:55:44 i am seriously thinking that big event daemon a-la powerlaunch wouldn't be a bad idea Feb 10 20:55:55 there's too much functionality that's a event -> action oneliner Feb 10 20:56:06 conichiwa johnx :) Feb 10 20:56:19 wazd, ohayo Feb 10 20:56:31 just wondering, with a keyboard.. could you do alt tab ;p Feb 10 20:56:50 * timeless hopes python isn't essential Feb 10 20:58:03 Stskeeps, so use powerlaunch to handle things like this? maybe rotation too and keyboard slide-in/slide-out? it seems like there are lots of places that make some sort of sense to offload these events too, and as long as they generate dbus events it (in my mind) almost doesn't matter what program handles them, just as long as something does Feb 10 20:58:50 johnx: well, i'm not saying powerlaunch especially, but there is a shitload of simple event->command->action->reaction stuff Feb 10 20:58:55 oh uh Feb 10 20:58:58 (.. or something) Feb 10 20:59:05 so removing nspr gets rid of network-manager Feb 10 20:59:22 like, plug in USB cable (see on HAL), show UI for selecting mode, done Feb 10 20:59:25 * timeless waves goodbye to fennec Feb 10 20:59:55 johnx: or even our Wifi power saving could be described as such :P Feb 10 21:00:14 for keyboard, HAL makes sense I think Feb 10 21:00:31 * timeless cries Feb 10 21:00:33 I don't know about rotation though Feb 10 21:00:35 um Feb 10 21:00:36 so... Feb 10 21:00:37 help? Feb 10 21:00:42 you nuked what? :P Feb 10 21:00:47 network manager Feb 10 21:00:49 Stskeeps, you remember that small python code of mine?:) Feb 10 21:00:52 so now i have no network Feb 10 21:01:03 timelE61i, I think your install is done for... Feb 10 21:01:04 qwerty12_N800: whichnow? Feb 10 21:01:09 what's the default network for mer? Feb 10 21:01:09 timeless: dhclient eth0 Feb 10 21:01:27 thanks! Feb 10 21:01:50 um Feb 10 21:01:55 resolv.conf is empty Feb 10 21:02:00 what do i neeed to make that happy? Feb 10 21:02:14 dhclient usually does that for me Feb 10 21:02:17 dhclient should cover that I believe Feb 10 21:02:23 Stskeeps, that one I gave you as an example that runs osso-xterm when the cable is inserted, not recommending it as an alternative but as a idea :) Feb 10 21:02:25 it didn't Feb 10 21:02:46 did dhclient eth0 give hopeful looking results? Feb 10 21:02:50 qwerty12_N800: i wonder if it works with usb host too Feb 10 21:03:08 timeless: just echo nameserver A.B.C.D > /etc/resolv.conf then Feb 10 21:03:28 stskeeps: yeah, but what's the value for vmware? Feb 10 21:03:35 my address is in 192.168.84.* Feb 10 21:03:42 er. hm. Feb 10 21:03:48 Stskeeps, does hal not give off the cable inserted event in usb host? Feb 10 21:03:57 qwerty12_N800: since i now have it.. hmm Feb 10 21:04:30 ok, it's .2 Feb 10 21:05:34 3min left of mer download :) Feb 10 21:05:57 stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.7/mer-armel-n800-v0.7.tar.gz right? Feb 10 21:06:02 yes Feb 10 21:06:06 :) Feb 10 21:07:50 qwerty12_N800: hmm, it doesnt detect my laptop in 'host' mode, but it detects a device on the line Feb 10 21:08:51 and reverse in perperial.. Feb 10 21:08:53 would mer let me install non-hildon stuff ? Feb 10 21:09:00 except gnome-core, yeah Feb 10 21:09:04 hmm Feb 10 21:09:10 sweet ;p Feb 10 21:09:40 like a new pidgin perhaps that hasnt been hildonized yet Feb 10 21:10:20 or a browser? Feb 10 21:12:27 sp3000: wah Feb 10 21:12:38 osso-icons-default conflicts w/ hicolor-icon-theme Feb 10 21:13:04 heh, known Feb 10 21:13:17 qwerty12_N800: damnit, not sure it's possible to detect cable insertion then Feb 10 21:13:27 stskeeps; how do i deal w/ that? Feb 10 21:13:38 timeless: --force-all :P Feb 10 21:13:44 wtf? Feb 10 21:13:45 Stskeeps, maybe a sysfs entry is tripped Feb 10 21:13:52 The NetworkManager applet could not find some Feb 10 21:13:57 required resources. It cannot continue. Feb 10 21:13:58 OK Feb 10 21:14:01 yeah, it's awkward like that Feb 10 21:14:06 (network manager was already uninstalled) Feb 10 21:14:10 shouldn't it have *stopped*?! Feb 10 21:14:27 (it's still in my status bar!) Feb 10 21:14:56 apt-get install --force-all Feb 10 21:15:04 E: Command line option --force-all is not understood Feb 10 21:15:15 i meant dpkg -i --force-all :P Feb 10 21:16:45 timeless, uninstalling packages doesn't just kill user processes Feb 10 21:16:51 the applet is called nm-applet Feb 10 21:16:55 oh wow this takes awhile Feb 10 21:17:03 which? Feb 10 21:17:14 i don't have an nm-applet in my \select applets\ Feb 10 21:17:23 timeless: yeah, it's not hildonized Feb 10 21:17:24 it's not a 'maemo' applet Feb 10 21:17:30 it's a standard systray thing Feb 10 21:17:34 * timeless kills it Feb 10 21:17:35 it has it's own process Feb 10 21:18:44 [: 31: add: unexpected operator Feb 10 21:18:48 * timeless wonders what that means Feb 10 21:19:13 ashism vs bashism likely Feb 10 21:19:14 timeless: bashism Feb 10 21:19:35 which maemo is littered with Feb 10 21:19:46 * benson wonders what's so great about hildonized applets. Feb 10 21:19:56 which part is the bashism? Feb 10 21:19:58 and please file bugs Feb 10 21:20:03 'cept that maemo doesn't use bash :p Feb 10 21:20:28 timeless: example, if [ x$FOO == x ]; then Feb 10 21:20:30 spot the error Feb 10 21:20:33 Oh, that's right, they can crash the whole desktop. Feb 10 21:20:45 timeless, tough to file bugs when you haven't even told us what package caused that... Feb 10 21:20:53 microb-eal i think :) Feb 10 21:21:00 ah, so file to you? ;) Feb 10 21:21:02 which is the error? Feb 10 21:21:08 nah, assign to sp3000 Feb 10 21:21:18 timeless: == is not correct sh. if [ x$FOO = x ]; then is correct Feb 10 21:21:27 ooh Feb 10 21:21:32 * timeless has something that looks like a browser Feb 10 21:21:44 hey, my menus are fixed! Feb 10 21:22:01 * johnx recommends midori...but it's a little late for that, huh? :P Feb 10 21:22:07 guys, should i create "backup of current initfs" ? Feb 10 21:22:10 * qwerty12_N800 sighs as he wonders why shells are so anal about one = Feb 10 21:22:21 zakkm: might not need it this time around since its pretty fresh Feb 10 21:22:34 k Feb 10 21:22:37 copying cvurrent initfs Feb 10 21:22:41 worked Feb 10 21:22:44 creating bootmenu.jffs2 Feb 10 21:22:58 ready for flashing this image Feb 10 21:23:17 rebooting Feb 10 21:23:26 timeless: you should almost show screenshots :P Feb 10 21:23:37 going into maemo? Feb 10 21:23:42 yeah Feb 10 21:23:45 installing bootmenu first Feb 10 21:23:52 k Feb 10 21:23:56 so it worked thistime? :D Feb 10 21:23:59 im in my old maemo Feb 10 21:24:04 now what? Feb 10 21:24:04 seemingily Feb 10 21:24:15 did you install mer first or bootmenu first? Feb 10 21:24:19 you weren't shown a bootmenu? Feb 10 21:24:23 no bootmenu Feb 10 21:24:54 ad-hoc mode is a real battery killer ;p Feb 10 21:25:00 qwerty12_N800,if all shells were bash compatible, nobody would bother to write clean sh code. :p Feb 10 21:25:06 i had bootmenu before... installed mer.. didnt work .. so i reflashed initrd or initfs whichever it was, bootloader disappeared.. installed mer Feb 10 21:25:11 ok Feb 10 21:25:11 it said updated bootmenu.conf etc Feb 10 21:25:17 now utilities -> install bootmenu Feb 10 21:25:36 also, it would cease to matter. Feb 10 21:25:47 benson, hehe, they should be! :p Feb 10 21:25:57 "remove unneeded extra ( factory testing ) stuff? Feb 10 21:25:58 yes or no Feb 10 21:26:00 * timeless grumbles Feb 10 21:26:05 yeah, it's microb-eal Feb 10 21:26:18 zakkm, doesn't matter on diablo Feb 10 21:26:29 zakkm: yes Feb 10 21:26:51 do i want to add bootmenu.conf stuff to initfs? Feb 10 21:26:57 yes Feb 10 21:28:06 yayy Feb 10 21:28:09 merr is booting!!!! Feb 10 21:28:17 blah Feb 10 21:28:25 just finished making my fbsd vm to move the dns to Feb 10 21:29:06 how is mer on battery life compared to maemo? Feb 10 21:29:09 johnx: i had Mauku booting on mer the other day Feb 10 21:29:26 zakkm: 0.8 will be better, there was an error in the wifi power save so Feb 10 21:29:37 wow this looks so cool :) Feb 10 21:29:37 and we're still needing some daemons to make proper power saving Feb 10 21:29:48 Stskeeps, very cool. looks like wireless is behaving better these days too Feb 10 21:30:03 johnx: i have no idea why yours may, mine certain doesn't :P Feb 10 21:30:10 and I'm happy with my xserver-kdrive-xfbdev package...but Omegamoon isn't here... Feb 10 21:30:21 johnx: http://blueman-project.org/ btw Feb 10 21:30:35 and see the scrshots for 1.0 Feb 10 21:30:37 yeah, used that in ubuntu for a while Feb 10 21:31:00 ah, looks nice Feb 10 21:31:20 wow...is that PAN and DUN Feb 10 21:31:24 in a nice wizard? Feb 10 21:31:36 yes, that is what i'm thinking Feb 10 21:31:38 alright. I'm sold :) Feb 10 21:31:43 that link doesnt work? Feb 10 21:31:44 uh oh Feb 10 21:31:47 Browser quit Feb 10 21:31:50 after saying Feb 10 21:31:54 Operation temporarily disabled Feb 10 21:31:57 due to low memory Feb 10 21:32:09 there is a low memory checker? O_o Feb 10 21:32:31 wow this is still so basic Feb 10 21:32:53 zakkm: yeah.. until you enable red pill mode in application manager and show all packages Feb 10 21:33:00 Stskeeps: how has that box been running for you? Feb 10 21:33:09 Macer: again, haven't had much time to spend on it :( Feb 10 21:33:12 heh Feb 10 21:33:21 zakmm: and your tablet is dragging it's heels to show all the ubuntu packages Feb 10 21:33:33 alrighty then.. i ask because i'm going to put 2 more VMs on it Feb 10 21:33:42 is it just me or is mer alot slower? Feb 10 21:33:48 zakkm: X driver isn't optimized Feb 10 21:33:54 (that much) Feb 10 21:34:03 Macer: just suspend it or delete.. i think the stuff i have on it is outdated Feb 10 21:34:15 you sure? Feb 10 21:34:18 yeah Feb 10 21:34:40 no fullscreen keyboard? Feb 10 21:34:40 johnx: sadly it isn't packaged up yet Feb 10 21:34:45 alrighty. well. i'll move it to my fileserver Feb 10 21:34:48 for ubuntu? Feb 10 21:34:48 zakkm: it's closed sourced :P Feb 10 21:34:48 zakkm, is it me or are you expecting a lot from something with a version number of 0.7? Feb 10 21:34:49 really? Feb 10 21:34:51 in case you want it later Feb 10 21:35:07 johnx: the 1.0 that goes with bluez 4 Feb 10 21:35:10 isn't Feb 10 21:35:14 ah Feb 10 21:35:16 i know the wifi button ;p Feb 10 21:35:31 but anyways, I'm off to bed. hopefully I'll have a zaurus-imager for 2/14 or 2/15 :) Feb 10 21:35:34 nini Feb 10 21:35:42 tomorrow i'm going to start hax0ring zimbra to change the pictures and stuff on it Feb 10 21:35:46 and maybe make a custom theme :) Feb 10 21:36:10 /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh not found! Feb 10 21:36:11 i guess i was expecting more Feb 10 21:36:26 zakkm: 2 months of work and already this is much impressive :P Feb 10 21:36:35 last thing: blueman packages: https://edge.launchpad.net/~blueman/+archive/ppa Feb 10 21:36:46 oh neat Feb 10 21:37:02 damnit, not armel ;) Feb 10 21:37:09 * Stskeeps sends it through builder Feb 10 21:37:14 neat indeed Feb 10 21:37:29 that'll work nicely on my laptop Feb 10 21:37:33 johnx: thanks for the url Feb 10 21:37:48 what does dsmetool do? Feb 10 21:38:37 communicates with dsme to sw wd apps i guess Feb 10 21:39:04 has a 'nice' function and lets you wrap commands around watchdog I guess. --help says a lot :) Feb 10 21:39:06 * timeless likes how mediaplayer has an unstated dependency on it Feb 10 21:39:37 my god Feb 10 21:39:43 is mediaplayer-daemon shipped in diablo? Feb 10 21:39:43 maemo-community has turned into maemo-bacon Feb 10 21:39:56 not kosher! Feb 10 21:40:22 There's always turkey bacon, timeless. Feb 10 21:40:52 hehe, /me doesn't like the sound of that :p Feb 10 21:41:22 There's even Quorn bacon. Avoid. Feb 10 21:42:30 amazing how lcuk actually managed to create a maemo-meme... with bacon Feb 10 21:44:28 To cater for the Rastafarians (and me), hash brownies should be served :p Feb 10 21:45:08 so Feb 10 21:45:17 my init.d scripts are dying saying: Feb 10 21:45:19 source: not found Feb 10 21:45:29 does that mean that 'source' isn't recognized by my shell? Feb 10 21:45:39 dash sucks, it doesn't understand source Feb 10 21:47:03 are scripts that require bash required to specify that in #! ? Feb 10 21:47:08 qwerty12_N800: mate, if I ever catch you smoking/eating anything more illegal than tobacco or presciption drugs, I'll fucking slap you from here to baghdad, hear that? Feb 10 21:47:22 * timeless grumbles Feb 10 21:47:32 timeless: yup, /bin/bash Feb 10 21:47:32 so, this script has a concept of a DAEMON_USER Feb 10 21:47:37 and it claims to be 'user' Feb 10 21:47:41 crashanddie, yes sir :( Feb 10 21:47:44 do i make that timeless, or nobody? Feb 10 21:47:59 that's a good question Feb 10 21:48:38 * Stskeeps tries to install blueman Feb 10 21:49:40 * timeless wonders what dsme actually is Feb 10 21:49:52 device state management entity Feb 10 21:50:05 it's abinary... Feb 10 21:50:13 damn. I said I was going to sleep... Feb 10 21:50:49 * timeless frowns Feb 10 21:50:50 Fight the urge... #maemo needs you... Feb 10 21:51:01 ok, so, i can't actually use dsme Feb 10 21:51:33 * johnx becomes interested in maemo on an eInk device... Feb 10 21:51:46 armv4/5? Feb 10 21:52:11 xscale so armv5te. the iliad ereader is down to $500 used ... Feb 10 21:52:15 hehe Feb 10 21:52:30 still a little steep Feb 10 21:53:15 something more kindle priced would be almost paletteable but apparently, it's quite closed... Feb 10 21:53:44 you can get a shell via serial console :) Feb 10 21:54:08 * timeless grumbles Feb 10 21:54:11 bootloader is uboot I think Feb 10 21:54:13 so... Feb 10 21:54:25 i have libnspr4 and libnspr4-0d competing w/ eachother Feb 10 21:54:29 how do i make them stop fighting? Feb 10 21:54:30 huh...and it has a keyboard, but no wifi Feb 10 21:54:49 seems like there's more interest in hacking up the irex iliad though Feb 10 21:54:55 and it's already gtk on X11 Feb 10 21:59:21 scary Feb 10 21:59:25 this blueman thing actually works Feb 10 21:59:31 baconirific! Feb 10 21:59:38 hehe Feb 10 21:59:51 yeah. bluez-gnome worked too, but is pretty simplistic Feb 10 21:59:55 Stskeeps, heh, bet you wouldn't be saying that on maemo :) Feb 10 22:00:10 it's almost like the bt protocols are actually fairly well defined... Feb 10 22:02:04 * b-man trys to think of a cool/useful design for the website that he is setting up Feb 10 22:04:14 Can someone with a scratchbox do 'pkgconfig --list-all | grep gtk' for me please? Feb 10 22:04:25 diablo or mer? Feb 10 22:04:46 either, think it should be the same :) Feb 10 22:05:34 http://pastebin.ca/1333124 Feb 10 22:05:45 Thanks johnx :) Feb 10 22:07:18 Always the '+' :)... Feb 10 22:07:43 * johnx really sleeps Feb 10 22:20:06 any chances to get n800 webcam working in flash? Feb 10 22:21:04 if you use libflashplayer.so from chinook & tz1's port of flashcam (?) Feb 10 22:22:57 are there any disadvantages of using older .so? Feb 10 22:23:13 it's slower Feb 10 22:25:19 i wont sacrify *tub Feb 10 22:25:38 *tubes for chatting ;) Feb 10 22:34:45 heh Feb 10 22:35:08 spammer! :P Feb 10 22:35:19 that wasn't a cat :> Feb 10 22:35:50 Stskeeps, ah, but how do we know that for sure ..? :p Feb 10 22:36:45 :) thaats better Feb 10 22:37:08 b-man: can you test out https://edge.launchpad.net/~blueman/+archive/ppa on ubuntu-jaunty? Feb 10 22:37:16 the 1.0-1 version Feb 10 22:37:18 you may need to build it Feb 10 22:37:22 shure :D Feb 10 22:37:52 check out http://blueman-project.org/ and screenshots Feb 10 22:38:36 what is mer? Feb 10 22:38:47 ~mer Feb 10 22:38:48 well, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Feb 10 22:39:02 aah, qwerty beat me to it!! Feb 10 22:39:12 thank you :) Feb 10 22:39:39 it's the place androids shortcut when being sunk into .. Feb 10 22:39:45 is it safe to say mer == rx51? Feb 10 22:40:07 nop Feb 10 22:40:24 maemo replacement? Feb 10 22:40:47 mer is a community project which amongst others has the purpose of porting maemo5 components to 770, n800, n810(w), but it is also an attempt to reconstruct Maemo as a platform Feb 10 22:41:01 gotcha Feb 10 22:41:26 closer to 2007 HE Feb 10 22:41:32 in concept Feb 10 22:41:52 sortof Feb 10 22:42:00 we're also based on top of ubuntu jaunty Feb 10 22:42:06 which means a lot of new fun things are possible Feb 10 22:42:28 and I was drooling over the palm pre - gotta spend more time here Feb 10 22:42:33 Like totally breaking your system Feb 10 22:42:39 Mine can't find home Feb 10 22:42:58 it's here: ~ Feb 10 22:43:20 Stskeeps: jaunty but with 2.6.21? Feb 10 22:43:32 Corsac: yes, why not Feb 10 22:43:39 it actually works :P Feb 10 22:43:45 don't give me that, ~ doesn't work in perl Feb 10 22:43:52 perl sucks Feb 10 22:44:10 Stskeeps: it works but it'd be nice it it'd be possible to use a more recent kernel :) Feb 10 22:44:19 I guess wifi and touchscreen are again the problems? Feb 10 22:44:29 touchscreen was never a problem really :P Feb 10 22:44:34 wifi not anymore after stlc45xx Feb 10 22:44:38 ~ is actually a shell convention Feb 10 22:44:51 Not a code feature Feb 10 22:45:02 can't you make shell calls in perl? Feb 10 22:45:56 or i could read env for home directly Feb 10 22:46:05 is there something like getenv $HOME? Feb 10 22:46:09 ah Feb 10 22:46:14 But you're missing the funny point Feb 10 22:47:00 I had picked a single apt repo and was using it to install stuff Feb 10 22:47:06 That was my home Feb 10 22:47:37 Mer ran in vmware and was walking across my vpn Feb 10 22:48:29 and then it stopped working Feb 10 22:48:42 Stskeeps: so what prevents to use 2.6.28 for example? Feb 10 22:48:44 So my mer couldn't phone home anymore Feb 10 22:49:11 Corsac: someone doing it cos it's not within my interest areas Feb 10 22:49:29 Stskeeps: but using directly ubuntu kernel isn't possible? Feb 10 22:49:30 there's a welcome task to be taken in that area Feb 10 22:49:41 Why bother upgrading? Feb 10 22:49:42 Corsac: well there's no direct ubuntu kernel for n8x0's afaik Feb 10 22:49:52 oh, no armel on ubuntu maybe? Feb 10 22:49:57 Corsac: not yet Feb 10 22:50:37 Corsac: but the android kernels prolly do the trick Feb 10 22:50:44 Stskeeps: why moving from debian (you were the creator of deblet too, don't you?) to ubuntu? Feb 10 22:50:49 what was missing? Feb 10 22:51:17 not enough upstreams! Feb 10 22:51:34 Corsac: in this case? upstart Feb 10 22:51:34 More layers for the onion! Feb 10 22:51:40 we wanted to lay closer to fremantle Feb 10 22:51:52 also armv5te vs armv4t Feb 10 22:52:19 and they're working on HWCAP stuff as well Feb 10 22:52:35 what's that ? Feb 10 22:52:49 timelE61i: select optimized libraries based on processor features Feb 10 22:53:12 so when running on armv7, use vfp if makes sense, or armv7 optimization Feb 10 22:53:57 Corsac: as a side note, we do build mer packages for debian-armel too Feb 10 22:53:58 for freerunner Feb 10 22:54:00 (eventually) Feb 10 22:54:12 http://alone-in-the-light.zenvoid.org/2009/02/dependency-hell.html as well Feb 10 22:54:53 Stskeeps: I'm a bit more interested in debian than ubuntu, so yeah if mer+debian is possible and need testers I guess I'll try that road Feb 10 22:54:54 ugh Feb 10 22:55:05 when I'll have some time to buy that shiny 16G sd card :/ Feb 10 22:55:09 what a pain in the ass it is to convert these goddamn nero recode mp4s to xvid or divx Feb 10 22:55:23 i guess i'm stuck using mencoder Feb 10 22:56:42 <||cw> at least mencoder can be stuck in batch files Feb 10 22:57:42 yah Feb 10 22:57:47 i'm going to try ffmpegX first Feb 10 22:57:59 which i guess is just an osx frontend to ffmpeg Feb 10 22:58:06 but it sounds l33t to add "X" to the end of it Feb 10 22:58:27 and unpronouncable Feb 10 22:58:29 my damn gf got a dvd player that plays divx/xvid but not mp4.. wtf? Feb 10 22:58:50 mp4 is h.264 support Feb 10 22:58:55 hard stuff Feb 10 22:58:57 yah Feb 10 22:59:06 h264 isn't that hard ;) Feb 10 22:59:14 but it costs Feb 10 22:59:28 i suppose.. maybe $1 more than the hw decoder for the xvid? Feb 10 22:59:35 more Feb 10 22:59:39 that bad huh? Feb 10 22:59:43 and multiply by units Feb 10 22:59:51 i know i've seen some "nero recode" units available Feb 10 23:00:11 nero recode also does AAC audio Feb 10 23:00:13 i use the h264 shit because everything i have can play it heh Feb 10 23:00:16 even more stuff Feb 10 23:00:18 yah.. the aac throws it off Feb 10 23:00:28 but you get great sound from things that support aac ;) Feb 10 23:00:39 like my popcorn hour Feb 10 23:00:44 yep Feb 10 23:00:53 although Vorbis is very close Feb 10 23:00:53 i think the world should all have popcorn hour boxes heh Feb 10 23:01:30 is that one of those linux things? Feb 10 23:01:58 OGG format for the uninformed Feb 10 23:02:57 (but it can be contained in MP4 just as well) Feb 10 23:03:46 ffs, forget on-device compiling, the tablet takes fucking long in producing debs Feb 10 23:04:45 I know Feb 10 23:04:50 need cross Feb 10 23:13:22 * b-man starts to install 50mb of dev packages to satisfy build dependencys for blueman :P Feb 10 23:20:11 Hello agan) Feb 10 23:24:44 * qwerty12_N800 looks at the long list of build deps for his 4 kb program & curses Feb 10 23:35:28 yo Feb 10 23:35:34 anyone Feb 10 23:35:54 what's up? Feb 10 23:36:19 im 12 years old and kind of a noob hacker Feb 10 23:37:00 good for you Feb 10 23:37:07 i was wondering if anyone is working on cloning the itouch os to diablo Feb 10 23:37:17 if possible Feb 10 23:37:35 easy now...we all started somewhere Feb 10 23:37:53 at any rate, I doubt it Feb 10 23:38:37 also, i tried installing the install-tools on my 800 and was wondering whats the difference beetween flash and sd Feb 10 23:38:53 im too lazy to google it Feb 10 23:39:18 KDE??? Feb 10 23:39:37 gotta learn to google first Feb 10 23:39:43 har Feb 10 23:39:55 "hello world" -> IPod touch Mac OS clone. We'll call it MerMer. Or maybe Whisper. Feb 10 23:40:17 for diablo??? Feb 10 23:40:42 bora Feb 10 23:40:54 watev Feb 10 23:40:58 cool!! Feb 10 23:41:17 :0 Feb 10 23:42:13 Stskeeps, hildon-theme-selector sent to the builder. I'll write a libpersonalise.so clone tomorrow, I'm too effing tired to do any more :) Feb 10 23:42:37 are u the real qwerty 12 Feb 10 23:43:05 I'm his clone, I shot him with a AK-47 :) Feb 10 23:43:12 lol Feb 10 23:43:17 thank God, he was getting annoying Feb 10 23:43:35 although, as a clone we can expect more of the same :/ Feb 10 23:43:43 wats the difference between flash and sd Feb 10 23:43:56 I hope to deliver :p Feb 10 23:44:06 lol! Feb 10 23:46:20 sd is a type of card " secure digital" flash is the type of memory that is in that card as well as other cards Feb 10 23:46:41 except for CF .) Feb 10 23:48:22 right, but when i try to install it says "flash is in use" Feb 10 23:49:11 im not any good at these two part questions Feb 10 23:49:38 n800 has two sd slots. does that help Feb 10 23:50:14 no. it can only have one sd connected to install Feb 10 23:51:00 have u installed install tools? Feb 10 23:51:04 wonder if this ffmpegX crap can batch encode Feb 10 23:51:08 that would be great Feb 10 23:51:32 wha Feb 10 23:52:24 huhu deblet screenshots are made on Xfce Feb 10 23:54:04 im switching the sd to internal but not workin Feb 10 23:55:23 it says :"sd card is in use. save deb to flash and re-run..............HELP! Feb 10 23:55:52 whats the diference between flash and sd Feb 10 23:58:12 i i think there is also a few megs of flash that the programs are installed in Feb 10 23:58:51 audio and document and few other folders Feb 11 00:09:54 for 770 owners : http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AOV9GA/ref=rzr-21/# Feb 11 00:19:00 timeless: ping Feb 11 00:44:12 wireless ad-hoc networking anyone? Feb 11 00:46:38 /etc/init.d/networking restart # fails for one thing Feb 11 00:52:45 help? Feb 11 00:52:51 my mer has 0 network interfaces Feb 11 00:52:56 and i don't remember my password Feb 11 00:53:08 that sounds unlucky Feb 11 00:53:08 how do i do something to it? :) Feb 11 00:53:16 it's vmware... Feb 11 00:53:17 whats a mer ? Feb 11 00:53:24 ~mer Feb 11 00:53:36 ~ping Feb 11 00:53:45 methinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Feb 11 00:53:46 ~pong Feb 11 00:54:17 mount the image outside vmware, add a sudoers rule to allow all root commands passwordless :p Feb 11 00:54:31 or just chroot I guess Feb 11 00:55:07 what file system is the image? Feb 11 00:55:41 oh wait! Feb 11 00:55:59 ok Feb 11 00:56:03 so, i have dpkg-deb Feb 11 00:56:10 which means i can make an anything Feb 11 00:56:10 huh Feb 11 00:56:13 and attack myself Feb 11 00:56:25 I wonder if my VirtualBox things can do something like that Feb 11 00:56:36 dpkg-deb is my friend Feb 11 00:57:13 timeless: if you do get your networking back, hildon-theme-selector is in the mer repository. working flawlessly in diablo at least Feb 11 00:57:21 well it turns out that the net instructions I got for making an ad hoc network, changing /etc/network/interfaces, do almost nothing on the N800 Feb 11 00:57:52 the reboot fails, and restarting the device, comes up with wireless just the way it was before Feb 11 00:57:53 timeless: ext3 iirc Feb 11 00:58:19 is this vmware install on windows? Feb 11 00:59:20 VBox does the same thing with its vdi files.. neat Feb 11 01:03:25 meanwhile, no effect on wireless networking on the N800 Feb 11 01:04:17 qwerty: cool Feb 11 01:04:25 i'm actually pulling in pieces of diablo atm Feb 11 01:04:50 so thre is an .iso for mer ? Feb 11 01:04:57 heh Feb 11 01:05:25 darkblue_B: vmdk & the plain old tarball :) Feb 11 01:06:02 oh yuck - VMWare specific Feb 11 01:06:04 oh well Feb 11 01:06:14 most things support vmdk Feb 11 01:06:22 i think virtualbox can use vmdk Feb 11 01:06:32 ohh maybe VBox does - ok spoe hastily Feb 11 01:06:36 spoke Feb 11 01:06:48 ok, why wouldn't sshd be running? Feb 11 01:06:57 I use vmware personally but i've seen many screenshots of Stskeeps using virtualbox Feb 11 01:07:37 well *if* I get traction with this client solution, I'd be willing to try some Hildon python on mer Feb 11 01:09:19 if i added: Feb 11 01:09:27 user ALL = NOPASSWD: /bin/sh Feb 11 01:09:40 to sudoers, would i be able to sudo /bin/sh ? Feb 11 01:11:12 yes, except you'd wanna change user Feb 11 01:11:26 why? is user the anme of an accont? Feb 11 01:11:31 yes Feb 11 01:11:44 oh, well, that's nice Feb 11 01:11:55 actually, let me check, i'm not 100% Feb 11 01:12:06 because most of the lines in sudoers.d/ are user, not %users Feb 11 01:13:00 yes, user is a user :) Feb 11 01:14:11 it could be an result of installing things from extras - it's nice when you are able to hardcode values without worry :) Feb 11 01:16:44 ok, i'm root Feb 11 01:16:52 what do i need to make sure i have networking? Feb 11 01:16:56 esp lo0 Feb 11 01:16:58 and sshd Feb 11 01:17:00 at boot Feb 11 01:18:59 Not really sure on the networking specifics, but I guess having network-manager installed would be a start and openssh-server should probably be installed from the ubuntu repo, not the extras one Feb 11 01:19:35 well... Feb 11 01:19:42 i had to remove network-manager Feb 11 01:19:47 it broke my ability to use diablo Feb 11 01:19:58 ah :/ Feb 11 01:20:03 "wireless cards that support ad-hoc networking..." so this card may not support ad-hoc mode Feb 11 01:20:57 no lspci.. Feb 11 01:21:11 Wicd Feb 11 01:24:21 why doesn't mer show me lo0? Feb 11 01:24:52 isn't it eth0 in vmware? Feb 11 01:31:03 hey, how do i restart x11? Feb 11 01:34:58 think it's /etc/init.d/auto-startx restart Feb 11 01:45:58 oh fsck Feb 11 01:46:02 * timeless deleted upstart Feb 11 01:51:14 help, which package contains update-rc.d ? Feb 11 01:51:47 you need to version your mer :) Feb 11 01:51:57 yeah well Feb 11 01:52:20 * sp3000 & Feb 11 01:54:24 anyone w/ a mer alive? Feb 11 01:55:59 i have mer and ubuntu - but mer is not functioning properly atm :P Feb 11 01:56:06 well Feb 11 01:56:14 which update-rc.d Feb 11 01:56:25 dpkg -S ${that} Feb 11 01:57:10 * b-man tryss to think of the package that contains that Feb 11 02:01:36 i'm not 100% shure :P Feb 11 02:01:38 * b-man trys googling Feb 11 02:06:07 timeless: try "dpkg -S `locate update-rc.d`" Feb 11 02:06:31 i don't *have* the package Feb 11 02:09:28 timeless: the package name is sysv-rc Feb 11 02:11:20 b-man: wrong flavor Feb 11 02:12:06 hmm Feb 11 02:12:55 bman, try again: for /usr/share/sysvinit/update-rc.d Feb 11 02:14:44 unop: so Feb 11 02:17:45 i'm getting a 'not found' message :P Feb 11 02:20:56 * b-man is sorry if he is not being verry helpful - it is late here and i'm drowsy :P **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 11 02:59:57 2009