**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 23 02:59:58 2009 Feb 23 04:49:18 what should i replace general.useragent.vender with if i dont want to be sent to mobile sites Feb 23 05:03:09 welp. time to retire the dual p3/500 Feb 23 05:08:38 did it blow up Feb 23 05:09:19 or just layed down and died Feb 23 05:41:13 * Stskeeps yawnq Feb 23 05:44:16 smackpotato: little bit of both Feb 23 06:21:32 Ah, the horror! They broke Google Phone to run Gnome! Feb 23 06:22:04 adp1 polly Feb 23 06:24:09 RST38h: co-linux on android is even more aca Feb 23 06:24:12 scary Feb 23 06:29:39 Sts: Eeek! Rewritten in Java, no doubt? Feb 23 06:29:41 ;) Feb 23 06:42:29 is java slow in mobile devices? Feb 23 06:43:58 s/slow.*// Feb 23 06:43:59 hem Feb 23 06:44:14 s/\ in.*// Feb 23 06:44:16 better :/ Feb 23 06:45:01 heh wonder why they use it so often Feb 23 06:47:09 example this java gmail app, which doesn't run in tablet Feb 23 07:00:47 RST38h: probably 'telnetd' hack. Feb 23 07:33:45 l Feb 23 07:36:48 m Feb 23 07:42:26 "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. What I mean by that is that it is an oportunity to do the things that you think that you could not do before." --Rahm Emmanuel, Obama's Chief of Staff Feb 23 07:44:32 i think there was a west wing quote not entirely unlike this, heh Feb 23 07:44:53 hi Feb 23 07:45:00 morning Feb 23 07:45:23 morning Feb 23 07:45:31 Yes Feb 23 07:46:03 * Stskeeps fails to understand why his fiancee has the magic ability to get him up at 6:30am. Feb 23 07:46:17 Stskeeps: i just bought a book on the subject ... http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Leviathan-Critical-Government-Institute/dp/019505900X Feb 23 07:46:33 cud anybody tell me how to make my net ip setup for maemo in my emulator Feb 23 07:46:59 pupnik: it's true though. governining is a lot easier in a crisis cos people wake up Feb 23 07:47:59 sans: make sure your /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf matches your /etc/resolv.conf Feb 23 07:48:17 thanks:) Feb 23 07:48:19 sans: it's a binary emulator, not a machine emulator Feb 23 07:49:15 sTs: at least you're finding out first Feb 23 07:50:05 yeah resolv.conf files are same Feb 23 07:51:14 Sans: nsswitch.conf Feb 23 07:51:50 * Dracie wishes he has a n810 instead of an itouch = Feb 23 07:52:36 the issue with me is i am tryin to access net from my developed application on maemo emulator but it remains in the localloop i.e 127.0.0.1 rather than taking the ip so how cud i correct the issue Feb 23 07:55:55 Stskeeps:any way to resolve this problem Feb 23 07:57:05 sans: mm, good question - i always had problems too but i attributed it to resolv.conf Feb 23 07:57:41 sans, memorize 208.67.222.222 n 208.67.220.220, free open dns servers Feb 23 07:57:52 also you can ping them to check to see if you are networked Feb 23 07:58:10 sans: doesn't make sense Feb 23 07:58:32 Is your nsswitch.conf reasonable? Feb 23 07:58:53 timelE61i: i have encountered weird issues with not having net accces (even without DNS), in binary emulated apps though Feb 23 07:59:15 i cannot document it right now as i'm doing something else at work :P Feb 23 08:27:46 time Feb 23 08:30:53 stskeeps :issue cudn't be resolved Feb 23 08:31:08 sans: yeah, it's odd like that :/ best way to do it is trying it out on the actual device Feb 23 08:34:13 sts: k but can i connect to net frm my browser in the maemo sdk Feb 23 08:34:43 when you say maemo emulator what do you mean exactly? af-sb-init? Feb 23 08:34:58 yeah Feb 23 08:36:10 DIABLO-I386 or DIABLO-ARMEL? Feb 23 08:36:36 DIABLO-I386 Feb 23 08:36:39 hmm Feb 23 08:36:58 and you checked /etc/resolv.conf inside scratchbox, comparing to the one on the outside? Feb 23 08:37:01 cud i set ip in that Feb 23 08:37:13 well. first off, you don't have a "real" emulator Feb 23 08:37:22 it isn't an emulator that emulates the device itself Feb 23 08:37:40 k so what's it Feb 23 08:37:48 so it isn't running a linux kernel inside an emulator, it just runs the applications in a binary emulator, which attaches to your existing kernel Feb 23 08:38:05 (when you run the armel target) Feb 23 08:38:24 k Feb 23 08:38:25 and you checked /etc/resolv.conf inside scratchbox, comparing to the one on the outside? <- check this though Feb 23 08:38:51 k wil check and get back thanks :) Feb 23 08:42:54 hEy, i just got the update operating system dialog Feb 23 08:43:19 on? Feb 23 08:43:21 Anyone think it should be operating system update instead? Feb 23 08:43:29 n800 Feb 23 08:43:48 Operating System Update sounds better, yeah Feb 23 08:43:50 It's running software so old, skype insults me in English Feb 23 08:44:07 If i cared enough, i'd file a bug Feb 23 08:44:10 You Loose? Feb 23 08:44:35 Since i'm fairly certain it'd insult me in English even if my tablet spoke Russian Feb 23 08:45:03 Anyway, it suggests i create a backup Feb 23 08:45:20 Do i need a charged battery before i update? Feb 23 08:45:29 (my battery died overnight) Feb 23 08:45:35 yeah, it's a good idea Feb 23 08:45:39 reboot loops are nasty Feb 23 08:45:56 i normally don't touch SSU if i don't have bootmenu + USB recovery telnetd installed :P Feb 23 08:46:10 hrm Feb 23 08:46:20 * timelE61i needs to file a bug Feb 23 08:46:24 Baclup Feb 23 08:46:28 Backup Feb 23 08:46:48 Last backup: Backup01 05/13/2008 Feb 23 08:47:03 Backups on memory card: Feb 23 08:47:10 ovi should have Backup feature for your cellphone and tablet, heh Feb 23 08:47:11 that'd be neat Feb 23 08:47:26 Backup01 02/23/2009 0.6 MB Feb 23 08:47:41 voice recognition Feb 23 08:47:49 Backup 04/06/2008 16 MB Feb 23 08:47:54 ----- Feb 23 08:48:07 Can you spot the bug? Feb 23 08:48:31 yeah, wrong Last backup Feb 23 08:48:35 argh Feb 23 08:48:38 http://www.oceanlight.com/lr/tran/10119.jpg <- I think we have the Mer mascot.. Feb 23 08:48:56 ever seen this bug before? Feb 23 08:49:30 happy shark :) Feb 23 08:50:37 got picture, yay! Feb 23 08:50:49 that is a funny pic Feb 23 08:51:12 Oh, i mean of backup Feb 23 08:51:56 Sts: can you try making a backup? Feb 23 08:52:12 Don't dismiss the Backup complete diailog Feb 23 08:55:03 yeah, in 15 mins, working on a package for work Feb 23 08:55:12 sure Feb 23 08:55:48 One possibility is that the top line is from the previous backup i made to another memory card Feb 23 08:57:25 I'm tempted to change "Last" to "Previous" as i think it'd solve this 'feature' Feb 23 08:58:59 lol @ happy shark Feb 23 09:14:42 good morning Feb 23 09:16:40 Morning, all Feb 23 09:16:55 morning Jaffa Feb 23 09:17:11 ooh Feb 23 09:17:23 * timelE61i has left handed scrollbars again Feb 23 09:18:04 there really ought to be a CP setting for that Feb 23 09:18:37 yeah yeah Feb 23 09:18:43 (not that i am left-handed, but when a users immediate experience is that tablets is horrid to use, cos he is left-handed)..) Feb 23 09:18:48 Don't worry, scrollbars have no future Feb 23 09:18:55 Hey, i'm a lefty Feb 23 09:19:04 I think it's silly Feb 23 09:19:20 What amuses me is that i know it's possible Feb 23 09:19:30 As i've had my tablets do it twice Feb 23 09:19:41 how about a touch bar sensor on side of case Feb 23 09:19:43 for scrolling Feb 23 09:19:49 (gecko native can also do it) Feb 23 09:19:50 that way, finger doesnt smudge up screen Feb 23 09:19:53 * ShadowJK is right handed but very often uses it with just left hand nayway Feb 23 09:20:14 maybe because the home button is on the left Feb 23 09:20:19 Pupnik: how about no hardware requests in a software channel Feb 23 09:20:46 Shadow: yep, this device is for lefties Feb 23 09:22:48 pupnik: touch sensors on the side are an absolute NO Feb 23 09:23:15 (ironic comment up there= Feb 23 09:23:19 oh ok Feb 23 09:23:36 pupnik: Good examples are BBK (Oppo) V7/V9 Feb 23 09:23:55 pupnik: pretty much uncontrollable Feb 23 09:24:05 like a touchpad Feb 23 09:24:15 naah, touchpad is a bit better Feb 23 09:24:30 it is located on the top and has bigger area Feb 23 09:24:58 how do you feel about scroll wheels_ Feb 23 09:25:14 BBK has got a bunch of playback control sensors at the edge of a <1cm thick metal case Feb 23 09:25:54 you pick up the player - and *something* clicks =) Feb 23 09:26:04 i could see a good 'case' to be made for having no sensors or buttons... durability... simplicity Feb 23 09:26:15 yes. thats the reason Feb 23 09:27:19 s/the/one Feb 23 09:27:38 having a few decent real buttons at the edge is ok Feb 23 09:27:40 sts: :( no probs they r same any other way Feb 23 09:27:52 sans: sucks, not sure what causes it then Feb 23 09:28:07 * Stskeeps doesn't advocate scratchbox as a devel platform anyway, but that's his own personal view Feb 23 09:28:33 i almost went into a raging fit when trying maemo sdk first time, heh Feb 23 09:29:03 yeah same with me it really sucks Feb 23 09:29:56 * RST38h now moved on to sb2 Feb 23 09:29:58 sucks compared to what Feb 23 09:30:06 sb1 is just plain inhumane Feb 23 09:30:19 pupnik: compared to be able to build and work with it in a vmware instance really Feb 23 09:30:26 mer devel is so much easier in a chroot. Feb 23 09:30:33 or in a vmware Feb 23 09:30:39 sounds actually good Feb 23 09:30:50 can PCassist compilation Feb 23 09:31:17 its really painful like am tryin to connect to net frm emulator in pc and havent been able to connect Feb 23 09:32:06 sans: what are you developing anyway? Feb 23 09:32:12 i has to switch to mer soon Feb 23 09:32:39 pupnik: still a long way to go to make it day-to-day usable, but yeah Feb 23 09:32:46 one OS to rule them all Feb 23 09:33:13 Sts:i have made a browser and tryin to run on it Feb 23 09:33:23 nah. OS' serve different purposes Feb 23 09:33:33 hehe just a joke m8 Feb 23 09:34:35 Question: I did some tweaking to maemo.org's servers. Does maemo.org feel faster, or is it just me? :) Feb 23 09:34:42 but i personally want to run the same SW on my tablets and pand Feb 23 09:34:50 Stskeeps:i have made a browser and tryin to run on it Feb 23 09:34:57 X-Fade: feels as sluggish as always Feb 23 09:35:10 feels fast here Feb 23 09:35:13 X-Fade: seems to work Feb 23 09:35:22 pupnik: that will be MacOSX =) Feb 23 09:35:27 * RST38h hides Feb 23 09:35:39 X-Fade: maybe a /little/ faster Feb 23 09:36:18 Jaffa: At least it isn't slower ;) Feb 23 09:36:58 jeremiah_: question: does Depends: support multiple lines? like Depends: a, b, \n c, d Feb 23 09:37:07 to those who think it feels slow... how much coffee have you had today? Feb 23 09:37:30 pupnik: Mondays are always slow ;) Feb 23 09:37:42 pupnik: two big cups so far Feb 23 09:41:17 sTs:sure Feb 23 09:41:30 Just make sure there's something on the first line Feb 23 09:41:36 Autobuilder is stupid Feb 23 09:42:02 And don't forget the leading space for other lines Feb 23 09:42:26 Sts: my deb's depend on lines :) Feb 23 09:42:34 60+ :) Feb 23 09:44:26 timelE61i: ah, this is not autobuilder in this case, i (scaringily) write debian packages as part of my work too Feb 23 09:44:52 I'm sorry :) Feb 23 09:45:12 Anyway, you can see my deb's somewhere Feb 23 09:45:24 yeah, well, on the other hand it allows me to get some degree of monetary support for some of my Mer work, so Feb 23 09:45:46 (we use some parts of Mer as part of our prototypes so) Feb 23 09:49:35 Stskeeps:no way out Feb 23 09:50:15 sAns: does nslookup work? Feb 23 09:52:20 timelE61:where? Feb 23 09:53:05 within scratchbox i presume Feb 23 09:55:09 pReferably real nslookup and not some evil host tool Feb 23 09:55:22 * timelE61i curses sbox Feb 23 09:55:31 use sb2 or mer-vmdk Feb 23 09:57:14 nslookup doesn't works Feb 23 09:57:20 :( Feb 23 09:57:37 so what cud be done Feb 23 09:58:13 try out Maemo SDK+ Feb 23 09:58:17 and see if it helps Feb 23 09:59:06 That's a good thing Feb 23 09:59:20 Did you actually look at nsswitch.conf? Feb 23 10:00:13 yes i checked Feb 23 10:00:21 and? Feb 23 10:01:13 resolv.conf Feb 23 10:01:23 err Feb 23 10:01:42 And nsswitch looked how? Feb 23 10:01:43 err? Feb 23 10:02:23 Note that sbox is fun so you might be better served using strace to find the *right* nsswitch.conf Feb 23 10:02:39 Better fix both Feb 23 10:03:12 or that Feb 23 10:03:26 Anyway, the line that matters is hosts: Feb 23 10:03:32 What did it say? Feb 23 10:04:03 files dns Feb 23 10:04:26 :( now find the other nsswitch.conf :) Feb 23 10:04:32 Strace is your friend Feb 23 10:05:09 hi inz Feb 23 10:05:16 Where are you now? Feb 23 10:21:57 timelE61i:thanks :) its up Feb 23 10:25:51 * Stskeeps ponders osso-gnome-vfs2 and why it is at all needed. Feb 23 10:27:50 bookmarks/filemanager historically use gnome vfs Feb 23 10:28:00 So does the filepicker Feb 23 10:28:10 yeah, i know, but why their own custom gnomevfs? i mean, sure, it may be stripped down Feb 23 10:28:13 but why custom? :P Feb 23 10:28:15 And our support for bluetooth and media Feb 23 10:28:19 ah. Feb 23 10:28:50 But beyond those feature details, i dunno the technical whys for forking Feb 23 10:29:18 And the fact that gnome vfs is dead outside maemo :) Feb 23 10:29:22 many people say that GTK is the huge problem regarding portability and such.. it actually isn't, it's osso-gnome-vfs2 causing most of the problems Feb 23 10:29:34 maemo GTK works just fine with normal apps Feb 23 10:30:50 What problem? :) Feb 23 10:31:30 well it is mostly package wise stuff.. the whole rename of the package throws a serious wrench in many things Feb 23 10:31:33 anyhow, lunch Feb 23 10:32:27 lunch sounds good Feb 23 10:48:39 hEh, my task switching menu is anchored to top left instead of bottom left Feb 23 11:12:19 oh come on ubuntu.. why does compiling network-manager-gnome require console-setup Feb 23 11:18:16 slackware rules, ubuntu drools Feb 23 11:19:24 yawn Feb 23 11:19:29 good morning Feb 23 11:20:52 "The primary fallacy of the tooth-fairy economics at the heart of the stimulus is the very idea that economic health is the product of government spending, which is financed either by borrowing (which leaves private businesses with a smaller share of the pool of savings for them to borrow from), printing money out of thin air, or direct seizure from the population." Feb 23 11:20:57 Thomas Woods - "Meltdown" - http://www.mises.org/store/Meltdown-P557.aspx?AFID=14 Feb 23 11:21:31 hi Feb 23 11:21:54 hi woglinde Feb 23 11:39:07 pupnik: well, THAT everybody will find out about 6-12 months from now Feb 23 11:40:03 hi RST38h Feb 23 11:40:31 * pupnik eating oatmeal with local yoghurt, honey and canned fruit and reading the book :D Feb 23 11:40:56 "Political cartoonists struggle to draw Obama without big lips" Feb 23 11:43:47 pupnik: here, to get you deeper into morose mood: http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=20484 Feb 23 11:55:02 AWESOME sinfest link! whoever posted that... Feb 23 11:55:16 oh rong chan. nm Feb 23 11:55:20 ty RST38h Feb 23 11:58:07 http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2959 (comic book / jpg / sfw) Feb 23 11:58:59 sinfest rocks Feb 23 11:59:17 pupnik: ah yes :) Feb 23 12:19:06 ~seen johnx Feb 23 12:19:08 johnx was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 17h 44m 14s ago, saying: 'wazd, nice find :)'. Feb 23 12:31:23 jeremiah_: OSBS does support maemo, actually Feb 23 12:31:39 at least the people coming in here and talking about have claimed so :) Feb 23 12:32:04 Stskeeps: Oh, does it? Feb 23 12:32:09 cool Feb 23 12:32:38 but then again it is how you define what maemo is.. ;) Feb 23 12:32:43 But it looks like it just builds debs fro the armel platform. Feb 23 12:32:56 Which I suppose is fine Feb 23 12:33:09 yeah, but so does scratchbox, it's the libraries and rootstrap that matters Feb 23 12:33:58 Stskeeps: Right, it would be cool if we had versions of the libraries and rootstraps on SuSE's servers so we could emulate the maemo better. Feb 23 12:34:02 yeah Feb 23 12:34:04 That is kind of what I was thinking. Feb 23 12:34:13 Maybe a Summer of Code project? Feb 23 12:34:17 i could really beat those people who have packages which end up trying to install stuff like console-setup (in ubuntu) when getting build-dep Feb 23 12:34:20 maybe Feb 23 12:35:00 hi Feb 23 12:35:19 where are the kernel-sources usually stored? Feb 23 12:35:26 on the sb1? Feb 23 12:35:32 /usr/src Feb 23 12:35:38 when grabbing kernel-source-diablo Feb 23 12:36:42 hmm I need the sources for a build.. there is a file called kernel-source-diablo.tar.bz2.. just untar it? Feb 23 12:36:55 yeah, but there's also a kernel-diablo package or something Feb 23 12:36:59 that sets everything up and builds Feb 23 12:37:14 I finally got my wife to say she liked linux better then windows! Feb 23 12:37:37 i am slowly trying to get my fiancée to use the 770 :P Feb 23 12:37:53 so far it works ok as imdb reader and mahjong Feb 23 12:37:53 :P Feb 23 12:38:17 hmm I've got every package kernel** installed but when I run ./configure it says that it needs the sources.. Feb 23 12:39:01 well my wife said it after I installed a custom version of ubuntu to my eee pc that she uses for face book and stuff it uses custom Netbook UI that she likes Feb 23 12:39:06 hehe Feb 23 12:39:17 Bleh https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3822 Feb 23 12:40:00 FiM? Feb 23 12:40:14 Stskeeps: be careful of showing her an n8x0, it will be faster and she'll want one; or at least mine did Feb 23 12:40:15 we really need to rethink that applications menu Feb 23 12:40:26 lardman: she will get my n8x0 when i get a rx-54 Feb 23 12:40:26 er Feb 23 12:40:27 51 Feb 23 12:40:46 yeah, but then don't let her use the rx-51, or it all starts again :D Feb 23 12:40:53 Stskeeps: what about a app-menu in mer like in bora? Feb 23 12:40:55 lardman: i wouldn't mind, really Feb 23 12:41:07 then i can finally make our network 802.11g-only Feb 23 12:41:10 thopiekar: plausible but not finger friendly Feb 23 12:41:17 well my wife said it after I installed a custom version of ubuntu to my eee pc that she uses for face book and stuff it uses custom Netbook UI that she likes OS2007 Layout so I can release that doom package I got made admin over in garage Feb 23 12:41:17 * aquatix 's gf now has a palm that only does 802.11b Feb 23 12:41:19 which detects whether you use your fingers or a stilus.. Feb 23 12:41:27 Stskeeps: ^ Feb 23 12:41:33 aquatix: ah, well not even Linux, yuck ;) Feb 23 12:41:41 thopiekar: admittedly i got upset at bora after not being able to find a xterm Feb 23 12:41:41 :P Feb 23 12:41:54 :) Feb 23 12:41:59 lardman, you are a bastard. i was impressed by video calling, now i get a call whenever my bloody tea is ready Feb 23 12:42:14 lardman: heh, her laptop runs linux though Feb 23 12:43:00 lcuk: ha Feb 23 12:43:10 Well my wife told me a few months ago when I said I was going to get her a N810 of her own that i just need to wait and get the new device and give her my old n810 how do I argue with that? Feb 23 12:43:37 andrewfblack: i think you can't argue with that Feb 23 12:43:44 * aquatix is planning to do just that btw Feb 23 12:43:55 i will get the `n900' and my gf will inherit my n810 Feb 23 12:44:07 andrewfblack, you can't argue, your missus is both prudent and nice to you. i might ask what the aliens did to your real wife Feb 23 12:44:16 ghehehe Feb 23 12:44:49 bbl anyway, dinner time over Feb 23 12:46:05 My wife loves to feed my electronic habit if I feed her cloths habit Feb 23 12:48:17 lcuk: lol Feb 23 12:48:35 andrewfblack: well that's very reasonable :) Feb 23 12:48:53 * aquatix makes a habit of wearing clothes too Feb 23 12:48:57 andrewfblack: yeah, shoes habit for mine :) Feb 23 12:55:25 hm, on my n810 keys Fn Chr and Ctrl don't work, any ideas? Feb 23 12:57:33 sounds like keymap messing up? Feb 23 12:58:28 Mrs Jaffa may get an R51 if she's nice. Jarr Jrs can have/share an N810 and the other goes up for sale. Feb 23 13:13:27 * andrewfblack needs someone to join Theme hackers project just to move things into Maemo Extras for me Feb 23 13:28:20 Stskeeps: have you some time to help me to build lirc? I need it to build pulseaudio.. http://pastebin.com/d40faa596 Feb 23 13:28:43 i'm willing to bet it doesn't need it as a true dependancy Feb 23 13:29:02 it's a library for remote controls Feb 23 13:29:14 sometimes it's OK to remove some build dependancies Feb 23 13:29:56 ok but I would have to make changes in rules, too-... Feb 23 13:29:59 or not? Feb 23 13:31:08 nah, often not Feb 23 13:31:14 ok Feb 23 13:31:29 what about policykit? Feb 23 13:31:42 would I need it, too? Feb 23 13:31:51 i think you would be better off taking Fremantle's pulseaudio and trying to make it build. Feb 23 13:32:15 aaah nice idea^^ Feb 23 13:32:19 thanks! Feb 23 13:46:05 I know esd sucks, but at least it never broke my (gnome-)terminals... ;) Feb 23 13:51:35 Stskeeps: to build pulseaudio from fremantle I need libspeexdsp-dev, which isn't available on apt-get sources.. and when I download it from ubuntu it needs graphviz, which isn't available on diablo or fremantle.. Feb 23 13:51:43 heh Feb 23 13:52:18 I hate packages like graphviz, debhelper and so on..^^ Feb 23 13:52:42 * Stskeeps would personally use more time on more productive things :P Feb 23 13:53:04 and what are these more productive things? Feb 23 13:53:05 ^^ Feb 23 13:54:26 Stskeeps: ? Feb 23 13:54:32 like, not beating a dead horse and start trying to grab packages and such from maemo diablo SDK / fremantle SDK and try to get them working under mer Feb 23 13:54:39 there's a bunch of packages i haven't touched yet Feb 23 13:55:20 hmm without the vmdk? Feb 23 13:55:38 * thopiekar hates it.. he needs a real xterm Feb 23 13:55:39 ^^ Feb 23 13:55:43 no, in the vmdk, you can use that as a build :P Feb 23 13:55:52 and you can always use reverse ssh tunnels Feb 23 13:56:22 ssh doesn't work for me.. don't know why... Feb 23 13:56:31 ssh from within machine and out Feb 23 13:56:32 not reverse Feb 23 13:56:33 :P Feb 23 13:57:03 from the host to the guest os... Feb 23 13:57:47 Stskeeps: how is mer looking? Feb 23 13:58:54 Stskeeps: which type of network should i use? Feb 23 13:58:55 nat? Feb 23 14:00:30 * thopiekar is forcing sb1.diablo to make graphiz... Feb 23 14:01:05 thopiekar: yeah, NAT Feb 23 14:01:35 hmm have I to start ssh-server on mer manually? Feb 23 14:02:37 shouldn't have to, it should be running already Feb 23 14:02:57 :| but I can't connect it.. Feb 23 14:03:33 you use virtualbox? Feb 23 14:03:39 yes,, Feb 23 14:04:10 does it make an interface in /sbin/ifconfig -a when starting the virtual machine? as in, your host computer Feb 23 14:04:37 http://mydebian.blogdns.org/?p=148 Feb 23 14:04:38 don't think so.. Feb 23 14:04:50 describes it Feb 23 14:06:49 * thopiekar tries it with Host Interface before preparing his vm... Feb 23 14:07:44 * Stskeeps tries to build Xomap Feb 23 14:10:05 Stskeeps: I'm going to leave ... cu l8er.. :) Feb 23 14:10:14 adios Feb 23 14:10:59 hmm, have anyone moved the browser tweaks from itt wiki to maemo wiki? Feb 23 14:19:25 Interesting news on the end of the N810: http://www.expansys.com/ft.aspx?k=118416 Feb 23 14:21:46 indeed Feb 23 14:22:15 i'm willing to bet they probably did a quick recompile of everything in extras, see if it built for fremantle, and releasing immediately ;) Feb 23 14:22:23 (planning to) Feb 23 14:22:48 * Stskeeps ponders the consequences if Xomap actually builds for mer. Feb 23 15:15:17 mikkov_: ping Feb 23 15:21:10 moo fiferboy Feb 23 15:21:20 moo? Feb 23 15:37:04 fiferboy, still happen to have those microb-svn debs (I know they don't work under diablo having built it myself before but I think it's a packaging issue and would like to try and fix them up)? Feb 23 15:37:30 qwerty: do you remember if anyone has tried compiling and packaging linuxdc++ yet? Feb 23 15:38:03 qwerty12: I'll check. Do you just need the source debs? Feb 23 15:38:15 RST38h, I remember me compiling it and then watching as it segfaulted randomly :) Feb 23 15:38:30 fiferboy, binary debs would be preferred please Feb 23 15:39:00 (I'm not trying to get anything into extras so dpkg-deb will be sufficent for this purpose :)) Feb 23 15:39:25 As soon as my virtual machine boots up I will let you know. Feb 23 15:39:32 fiferboy, cool, thank you Feb 23 15:39:45 RST38h, if command lines are your thing, there's a command line dc client Feb 23 15:40:12 qwerty: naaah, I hardly believe it is possible to search dc++ shares via command line Feb 23 15:40:47 Agreed :). I'm more tempted by gtk-gnutella personally Feb 23 15:41:10 not much use around here Feb 23 15:41:20 community net uses dc++ internally Feb 23 15:43:40 qwerty12: Looks like I blew them away, sorry. Feb 23 15:43:51 Do you need them rebuilt? Feb 23 15:43:55 fiferboy, heh, thanks for checking. Feb 23 15:44:09 No, I'm ok thank you (I remember it taking me ages last time :)) Feb 23 15:45:01 I wonder if browserd has to be rebuilt against it though Feb 23 15:46:20 * RST38h wonders if he may bug pipeline about porting dc++ thingie... Feb 23 15:47:49 I thought browserd was built as a part of rebuilding the browser. Feb 23 15:48:31 I'm pretty sure that the engine in svn is kept seperate to the tablet-browser-daemon. Feb 23 15:49:02 But its been a long while since I've checked Feb 23 15:50:00 You may be right, I think the error message looked like it was looking for broswerd in the wrong place Feb 23 15:57:06 qwerty12: It looks like I still have the packages on my tablet. I just have to figure out which ones are required for you (there are about 8 if I recall correctly) Feb 23 15:59:53 I wont be needing the -dev & dbg packages at least :). microb-engine-common & microb-engine seem like enough to me Feb 23 16:02:17 Curd, these ones are too old to be mine, they must be that old build from ITt from last May Feb 23 16:02:49 /s/Curd/Crud Feb 23 16:03:07 Heh, no problems, thank you for looking. I guess I'll have to attempt a build on the weekend :) Feb 23 16:04:30 I'm going to try a build now in my VM, it's not doing anything right now anyway Feb 23 16:04:52 fiferboy: linuxdc++, pleeeasee! =) Feb 23 16:04:58 Oh, don't worry about it if you don't need it :) Feb 23 16:05:08 * qwerty12 remembers the time it took for me last time :) Feb 23 16:08:15 RST38h: People are still using dc? Feb 23 16:10:02 hmm, RMS live from norway... Feb 23 16:10:39 fiferboy: all over the place here Feb 23 16:11:27 (not my personal preference though, just means I will be able to search and download movies directly to the tablet) Feb 23 16:13:04 What about Transmission? Feb 23 16:13:38 Community net uses DC++ Feb 23 16:14:08 Torrents mean going outside which is 1) slower (4Mbd instead of 100Mbd), 2) costs money and 3) limited by u/d ratio Feb 23 16:14:46 Ah, you are using it on an internal network? Feb 23 16:14:52 more or less Feb 23 16:15:06 RST38h: heh, yeah, similar story here sometime Feb 23 16:15:06 technically dc++ hubs have ratios, slots and tb shared Feb 23 16:15:21 but i wouldnt know anything about that Feb 23 16:15:41 * lcuk wonders how he learnt to read swedish Feb 23 16:15:59 When I was trying out DC++, most hubs had a 40GB minimum share limit and I only had a 20GB hard drive :) Feb 23 16:16:03 lcuk: they are, but most client in our network have them turned off or relaxed Feb 23 16:16:15 lcuk: the traffic is very fast and free Feb 23 16:16:21 once you are in the hub you are ok lol Feb 23 16:16:31 yeah rst, i know :) Feb 23 16:17:00 qwerty12, ive seen some people desperately trying to up shares, enabling whole c drive and using symlinks and other stuff Feb 23 16:17:58 Yeah, I was gonna make a *gb file of nothing ness (I had a dummy file maker when I used to rip psp games manually) but it was pointless as my hard drive was 20gb :P Feb 23 16:18:13 I remember a while back symlinking a huge directory a few times used to get you in to most servers Feb 23 16:18:24 I mean, I remember a friend telling me that... Feb 23 16:20:23 qwerty12: SVN build isn't playing nice right now. There's a directory not found error eight off the bat Feb 23 16:21:12 qwerty12, you get kicked and banned for tricks like that. nothing worse than bad content Feb 23 16:21:35 at least if you share your c:/ drive people might find use in your emails and passwords and stuff Feb 23 16:21:39 Eurgh. Thank you for attempting it again, wonder why that SVN is messed up anyway (looking at the fact that the microb-engine didn't build for me last time without some odd tricks) Feb 23 16:21:56 lcuk, didn't really bother me. My plan was to get on, leech and fuck off Feb 23 16:22:36 lol Feb 23 16:22:58 * lcuk is surprised by how many of the original server groups are still recognisable Feb 23 16:23:23 What I do miss however is the original Razorback on ed2k Feb 23 16:28:46 hehe, "learn asm on arm" itt thread is hilarious Feb 23 16:29:00 Thinking of teaching him? :P Feb 23 16:29:06 no way. Feb 23 16:29:15 lol Feb 23 16:29:27 if he could be educated, he would already taken one of MANY hints people gave him Feb 23 17:05:14 afternoon all Feb 23 17:06:30 was there a thread on itt about getting/trying to get headphones with controls working (wired ones that is)? Feb 23 17:07:59 * RST38h tried compiling linuxdc++. Unfortunately, goddamn thing needs SCons to compile Feb 23 17:08:17 Authors just couldn't use standard make - not eleet enough for them =( Feb 23 17:09:22 what is it? Their website gives no description of what the code does.... Feb 23 17:09:38 ah, p2p Feb 23 17:09:39 linuxdc++ is a P2P client Feb 23 17:09:54 one I need badly enough to try compiling it Feb 23 17:10:24 Scons is another Make clone written in Python by people who were too stupid to learn Makefiles Feb 23 17:13:23 hmm, what was that funny headset profile in the rx-51 kernel code..... Feb 23 17:13:29 * lardman trawls itt Feb 23 17:13:42 US Airways Group on Monday said it would stop charging for nonalcoholic drinks in its coach cabin, a practice that drew the ire of customers and put the airline at a competitive disadvantage. <--- hehehe, bastards =) Feb 23 17:14:12 ire of customers? why? Feb 23 17:14:41 I'd think they'd be pleased Feb 23 17:14:57 lardman: 'cause when you fly for 6 hours in fetal position, crammed between seats *and* get charged for a freaking orange juice, you normally get mad. Feb 23 17:15:15 yeah, but why are passengers annoyed that they are going to stop charging? Feb 23 17:15:29 ah, I misread Feb 23 17:15:33 lardman: no, you misparsed the sentence =) Feb 23 17:15:35 "a practise which" Feb 23 17:15:55 that/which/practise/practice, all that stuff :) Feb 23 17:16:04 lardman: did rx-51 headset profile suggested a GSM voice capability? l( Feb 23 17:16:05 ;) Feb 23 17:16:29 RST38h: can't remember, but there was some funny code, which I was thinking might be one of these remote control things Feb 23 17:16:36 code as in codename Feb 23 17:16:56 AVRC? Feb 23 17:17:29 avrcp? Feb 23 17:17:42 AVRCP, sorry. That and A2DP together constitute a media playing headset Feb 23 17:17:53 no, I'm thinking about wired headphones Feb 23 17:18:37 Wired headphones normally use resistive ladder, afaik Feb 23 17:18:53 lardman, btw, if I want to attempt building your dsp-sbc, which mk* is the preferred one to build? Feb 23 17:19:21 .diablo Feb 23 17:19:39 but it only changes the path to the dsp kernel Feb 23 17:19:53 so you'll probably need to tweak it anyway if your setup is different Feb 23 17:19:59 what are you wanting to do anyway? Feb 23 17:20:27 Hmm? I'm talking about which mk I'd want to export from here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=dsp-sbc Feb 23 17:20:28 If you're bored, do a back port of ssvb's sbc changes from bluez4 Feb 23 17:20:43 mk as in Makefile? Feb 23 17:20:57 ah mk Feb 23 17:20:58 I see Feb 23 17:21:14 mk2 is the basic code Feb 23 17:21:31 Cool, thanks Feb 23 17:21:34 go for that, but I should backport the ssvb patches to the DSP-side Feb 23 17:21:59 I thought your latest bluez deb consisted of ssvb's changes? Feb 23 17:22:00 hmm, actually perhaps the mk2-filter+bitstream-patch Feb 23 17:22:11 removes a memcpy Feb 23 17:22:24 qwerty12: yeah, but not completely up to date Feb 23 17:22:28 ah Feb 23 17:22:37 and he proivded a patch for the ARM-side in itt the other day Feb 23 17:22:37 I'm enjoying ssvb's kernel patch atm Feb 23 17:23:21 where is that one from? Feb 23 17:23:46 The one he posted in the a2dp thread, I remember you thanking it :) Feb 23 17:24:02 qwerty12: ping me next week and remind me to make a new Bluez-utils Feb 23 17:24:45 what are your plans for dsp-sbc? Do you plan on integrating that into bluez-utils again? Feb 23 17:25:04 Well, the bluez part anyway (sorry, I'm clueless regarding all this) Feb 23 17:25:36 fiferboy: pong :) Feb 23 17:27:42 qwerty12: yes, I'll release an ARM-only and an ARM+DSP version Feb 23 17:27:47 with ssvb's patches Feb 23 17:27:56 hang on, need to pack, bbiab Feb 23 17:29:41 cool, thanks Feb 23 17:53:26 re Feb 23 17:53:29 qwerty12: np Feb 23 17:53:46 I'd meant to do the patches by now, but have been busy, will do them next week when I get back Feb 23 17:54:04 Oh, lol, no rush. Have a good time! Feb 23 17:54:31 hmm, it's work, so probably lots of sitting presenting/watching presentations; we'll see Feb 23 17:55:05 ~n900 Feb 23 17:55:07 n900 is probably OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA, Maemo 5 (Fremantle), probably Summer 2009 (or later) Feb 23 17:55:11 ~rx-51 Feb 23 17:55:12 rumour has it, rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html Feb 23 17:55:35 hmm, come on infobot, where's the link to the kernel patch dissection? Feb 23 17:56:22 lardman: Isn't that in Ryan's blog post? Feb 23 17:56:35 lardman, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25478 maybe Feb 23 17:56:40 I was after the itt thread really, there was something in there Feb 23 17:56:44 thanks qwerty12 Feb 23 18:05:15 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25478&page=20 Feb 23 18:05:19 that's the page I was after Feb 23 18:05:28 I knew I wasn't going mad :) Feb 23 18:06:43 I'm only seeing 7 pages, I wouldn't be so sure of that : Feb 23 18:06:44 P Feb 23 18:07:42 :) Feb 23 18:08:44 anyway, I've seen what I remembered, but no closer to working out if a headset remote will work on the n810 :D Feb 23 18:09:23 lardman: ECI is a resistive ladder afaik Feb 23 18:09:46 lardman: In other words, they have got an ADC somewhere connected to one of the wires Feb 23 18:10:22 yeah Feb 23 18:10:26 lardman: as you press buttons, you ground adc input through different resistors and the firmware measures voltage and converts it to button id Feb 23 18:11:10 I wonder if the current devices can do something like that, I'll have to look at the diagrams eventually Feb 23 18:13:30 hola world) Feb 23 18:16:06 hola Feb 23 18:19:58 mikkov_: Do you know whether libboost-regex builds in your boost libraries? Feb 23 18:20:54 fiferboy, wow!! Feb 23 18:21:12 fiferboy, hey Andrew!) Feb 23 18:21:25 fiferboy, long time no see) Feb 23 18:21:38 * GeneralAntilles stretches and yawns. Feb 23 18:21:58 lardman: acronym you are looking for is LRAD or LRADC Feb 23 18:22:44 wazd_n800: It has been a while Feb 23 18:23:46 moo wazd Feb 23 18:24:02 RST38h: thanks, but I don't get much of any use from Google for that term Feb 23 18:24:24 fiferboy, I dont see you in Jabber( Feb 23 18:24:34 RST38h, hola) Feb 23 18:26:52 qwerty12, ping? Feb 23 18:27:05 GeneralAntilles, pong but I've gtg in 5 mins Feb 23 18:27:24 qwerty12, Ian recommended adding qurgh-complete and lcars-extras to conflicts, too. Feb 23 18:28:43 Noted. I can't do anything right now (in windows currently) but it shouldn't take me long to change and regenerate new source packages to give you tomorrow Feb 23 18:35:37 fiferboy: I have to check, probably there is some reason why it isn't built now Feb 23 18:36:22 mikkov_: Is it just a matter of removing the "--without-regex" line in the rules file? Feb 23 18:37:23 according to my changelog regex doesn't build for i386 Feb 23 18:37:40 but it should work for armel Feb 23 18:37:49 Stolen Windows Mobile 6.5 Prototype Phone Wiped Remotely Feb 23 18:38:10 Nice feature =) Feb 23 18:38:44 rst hehe Feb 23 18:39:02 fiferboy: you need to add regex to some other places too Feb 23 18:39:04 * RST38h wonders if the final version will have it Feb 23 18:39:16 Ah, I was wondering if that were the case Feb 23 18:39:45 at least boost_libs: Feb 23 18:39:56 boost_libs := Feb 23 18:40:35 do you need it for some to be extras app? Feb 23 18:44:55 eeek...boost libs Feb 23 18:48:54 mikkov_: I want to see if the devel version of Wesnoth builds and runs (since it will be the new stable soon), but it need regex Feb 23 18:51:03 should I update the boost in extras-devel? Feb 23 19:02:47 If it builds with regex, that would be great Feb 23 19:35:37 * Stskeeps yawns Feb 23 19:36:36 anyone got a pointer to using GStructure? Feb 23 19:36:45 GstStructure that should be, sorry Feb 23 19:38:24 ah, not to worry, found something Feb 23 19:41:52 I just can't fathom some people. Feb 23 19:44:22 like whom? Feb 23 19:44:50 lardman, for the moment the "Nokia should kill Maemo and switch to Symbian" crowd. Feb 23 19:45:05 :) Feb 23 19:45:08 ah well Feb 23 19:45:22 they've obviously never tried to write any Symbian apps ;) Feb 23 19:46:32 I'm also confused as to why types like that insist on hanging around to troll rather than just buying want they want and moving on. Feb 23 19:46:43 That's an awful lot of energy to waste sowing negativity. Feb 23 19:46:50 hard to break the habit? Feb 23 19:47:26 Stskeeps, so, you're coping to being a recovered troll, then? :P Feb 23 19:48:00 hehe. nah, just fighting the fight by actually doing something Feb 23 19:48:13 name Feb 23 19:48:15 ops Feb 23 19:48:16 sorry Feb 23 19:49:48 GeneralAntilles: we should just make a rule on iTT "Each time you complain about something you have to either 1) bring it to attention to Maemo SW (bugs.maemo.org), 2) fix and provide a solution yourself or 3) support someone who can fix or provide a solution Feb 23 19:49:52 :P Feb 23 19:50:36 4) Don't bother and STFU. Feb 23 19:50:41 or 4) propose a solution for others to look into Feb 23 19:50:41 hehe Feb 23 19:50:42 :P Feb 23 19:50:55 hehe Feb 23 19:51:10 hey, is pycage around here ? Feb 23 19:51:24 qwerty12_N800: i managed to get Xomap building btw Feb 23 19:51:27 was fairly simple. Feb 23 19:51:27 we should establish a rule where people have to use the same nick on irc and itt Feb 23 19:51:40 lfelipe: sadly those namespaces are differently occupied Feb 23 19:51:53 Stskeeps: nice. Manual refreshes all the way? :) Feb 23 19:52:11 Stskeeps: if your itt nick has been taken on irc, then you prepend [ITT] to it Feb 23 19:52:23 like, [ITT]lfelipe Feb 23 19:52:43 yeah, ok, it's dreadful, forget I suggested it Feb 23 19:52:47 qwerty12_N800: yeah, possibly. it seemed a bit faster. Feb 23 19:53:06 at least a new field on the itt profile to specify which irc nick is used Feb 23 19:53:07 hehe Feb 23 19:53:14 but I digress Feb 23 19:53:23 anyone knows which nick pycage uses ? Feb 23 19:53:33 qwerty12_N800: i don't like that solution though.. i would much rather see -omapfb mature Feb 23 19:53:42 lfelipe: Is pycage even on irc? Feb 23 19:54:03 qwerty12_N800: good question, is he ? Feb 23 19:54:15 don't think so Feb 23 19:54:54 why do ppl hang on forums and not on irc is unfathomable Feb 23 19:55:14 Stskeeps: but Xomap has patchable rotation & manual refreshes. I don't know much about omapfb, nor Xomap but I can't see the advantage of -omapfb over Xomap ATM. Feb 23 19:55:33 *nod* Feb 23 19:55:35 well. it's xorg. Feb 23 19:55:40 and you can throw a lot of devices at it :) Feb 23 19:56:56 s/ATM/ATM on the N800 :)/ Feb 23 19:56:57 qwerty12_N800 meant: Stskeeps: but Xomap has patchable rotation & manual refreshes. I don't know much about omapfb, nor Xomap but I can't see the advantage of -omapfb over Xomap ATM on the N800 :). Feb 23 19:57:18 yeah, that's true Feb 23 19:57:29 lardman, Feb 23 19:57:46 hey lcuk Feb 23 19:58:03 * Stskeeps wonders if hwcap supports binaries. Feb 23 19:58:08 hiya, ive been thinking about what you said and i might be able to give a solution Feb 23 19:58:25 I can't remember what I said now.... Feb 23 19:58:29 heh :D Feb 23 19:58:29 getting old :p Feb 23 19:58:47 yeah, it was about the multibinary thing and how to do it Feb 23 19:59:06 hmm...? Feb 23 20:00:01 i was talking to kot as well and some things might work. at the moment, ill stick with how i am (basically 1 app + multiple .so's) and try to get it so that starting a new app will integrate into the screen Feb 23 20:00:03 qwerty12_N800: downside though, it requires vfp and armv6 to be sane Feb 23 20:00:20 lcuk: ah yes, I remember now Feb 23 20:00:41 Stskeeps: tbh, from a selfish view, that doesn't bother me. Feb 23 20:01:05 what i dont think will be practical however is letting abc application open its own little viewport within a mainly (lets say) gtk window Feb 23 20:01:26 qwerty12_N800: true Feb 23 20:01:31 it falls down when you run multiple apps using the same principle Feb 23 20:01:53 or want to have multiple widgets onscreen at same time each with their own viewport Feb 23 20:02:15 ill ponder it some more anyway Feb 23 20:27:23 anyone know any grease monkey script that speed up browsing. Ive already stoped onscroll and onexit Feb 23 20:48:21 eevë Feb 23 20:48:22 ... Feb 23 20:48:34 * Stskeeps notes to himself he doesn't like his laptop keyboard. Feb 23 20:48:46 ываио Feb 23 20:56:12 qwerty12_N800 nice Feb 23 20:57:14 woglinde: lemme know if it means something :P (was typing random letters from the Russian keyboard - a friend needed it...) Feb 23 21:06:50 qwerty12_N800: what you typed sounds like a mumbling noise of a really drunk guy :) Feb 23 21:08:28 lol :p Feb 23 21:09:50 are there any open hardware specs for the N810? Feb 23 21:09:53 night chaps Feb 23 21:10:05 in particular, how the sliding keyboard thing keeps a mechanical connection Feb 23 21:11:09 ssvb, it looks a lot like "vaio" to me ;) Feb 23 21:11:58 luke-jr: not what I'd call authorized by Nokia but... http://www.nmacleod.com/nokia/schematics/ Feb 23 21:12:24 qwerty12_N800: that's ok, I just want to design my own hardware for a new handheld Feb 23 21:13:41 qwerty12_N800: wait, before I open these-- they're not leaked/copyrighted docs, right? Feb 23 21:13:52 leaked Feb 23 21:13:59 and copyrighted. Feb 23 21:14:14 luke-jr, really, it's a standard connector Feb 23 21:14:19 with a band Feb 23 21:14:28 qwerty12_N800: so I'd better not look at it if I want to compete.. Feb 23 21:14:43 AStorm: but how does it stay connected while sliding? Feb 23 21:14:58 or is that part of why the top half the device can't be used for more kb space? Feb 23 21:15:03 because the connector is longer Feb 23 21:15:25 maybe an even longer wouldn't fit Feb 23 21:15:37 or the "carriage" wouldn't Feb 23 21:15:47 oh, I think I see. :/ Feb 23 21:16:02 * luke-jr wants one that slides all the way, and can then fold up like a laptop :D Feb 23 21:16:25 ah, a clamshell Feb 23 21:16:29 nokia did some back then too Feb 23 21:17:06 thinkpad tablet has such a design too Feb 23 21:17:45 the problem is that hinge is fat and heavy Feb 23 21:18:06 well Feb 23 21:18:07 and obviously, when closed, screen is unavailable :P Feb 23 21:18:13 I mean the current design, plus clamshell Feb 23 21:18:20 so you can close it by sliding or folding Feb 23 21:18:37 I haven't figured out how I'd do the connector yet tho ☺ Feb 23 21:18:46 sliding to fold that is Feb 23 21:18:51 still normal tape Feb 23 21:18:59 eh? Feb 23 21:19:02 but even longer Feb 23 21:19:05 someone has made this before? Feb 23 21:19:26 see, it works the same as now Feb 23 21:19:53 because when folding, the tape is outstretched - the only problem is with sliding Feb 23 21:20:18 btw, it's not the keyboard that's connected with a tape Feb 23 21:20:24 screen is Feb 23 21:20:37 but you can do it either way Feb 23 21:24:24 luke-jr: you want to design your own hardware and you don't know how the sliider mechanism works?) Feb 23 21:24:43 luke-jr, good luck :) Feb 23 21:24:44 yeah, weird Feb 23 21:24:54 maybe he should hire someone Feb 23 21:25:09 <.< Feb 23 21:25:50 luke-jr, most of the stuff is patented Feb 23 21:26:11 luke-jr, you should buy it or use your own tech Feb 23 21:26:18 wazd_n800: what I want doesn't exist Feb 23 21:26:27 (which is similar but not enough) Feb 23 21:26:31 oh, it does Feb 23 21:26:37 I've never seen it Feb 23 21:26:43 sliding hinges do exist Feb 23 21:26:47 rare though Feb 23 21:26:53 luke-jr, slider does exist) Feb 23 21:27:00 wazd_n800: slider + clamshell? Feb 23 21:27:39 luke-jr, well, it doesnt matter how many separate techs you'll combine Feb 23 21:27:41 and what did you mean my "own tech"? I thought this up on my own, and an independent implementation of it would certainly be my own tech Feb 23 21:28:18 luke-jr, if parts of it will void the patent - you'll be sued) Feb 23 21:28:39 zep Feb 23 21:29:03 thus, you'll have to licence it... but it might be free now Feb 23 21:29:29 wazd_n800: unless I patent the whole, and trade that patent for the sub-patents Feb 23 21:29:49 no Feb 23 21:29:56 they'll just sue you Feb 23 21:30:08 and take your patent as a settlement Feb 23 21:30:15 you lose Feb 23 21:30:16 not sure they can sue me if I don't build it Feb 23 21:30:29 they can if you get a patent Feb 23 21:30:38 gah Feb 23 21:30:42 patents are so screwed up Feb 23 21:30:47 or they can void your patent on unoriginal work basis Feb 23 21:30:55 no, it's original work Feb 23 21:31:02 I haven't read a single patent of theirs. Feb 23 21:31:08 it's not if it combines other patents Feb 23 21:31:19 that doesn't matter Feb 23 21:31:33 if it's similar enough, it's unoriginal Feb 23 21:31:38 luke-jr, if you havent read - thats your problem) Feb 23 21:31:54 if it's similar enough, then both patents are void due to the concept being trivial ;) Feb 23 21:31:58 luke-jr, you can't prove it Feb 23 21:32:17 luke-jr, no, the oldest one wins Feb 23 21:32:34 it wasn't trivial back then Feb 23 21:32:34 AStorm: patents need to be non-trivial Feb 23 21:32:42 or someone else would've patented it Feb 23 21:32:51 sigh Feb 23 21:32:57 luke-jr, anyway, prototyping is very expensive and hard work) Feb 23 21:33:00 and, there's that "design" protection Feb 23 21:33:06 wazd_n800: perhaps Feb 23 21:33:14 which is unrelated to patents Feb 23 21:33:27 luke-jr, Be sure) Feb 23 21:33:29 AStorm: and non-existent? Feb 23 21:33:30 but works similarly Feb 23 21:33:42 existent in most countries Feb 23 21:33:50 last I checked, designs/interfaces can't be copyrighted Feb 23 21:34:10 they can. Feb 23 21:34:17 at least in EU Feb 23 21:34:19 then why did Microsoft lose that lawsuit? Feb 23 21:34:23 luke-jr, say hello to Apple)) Feb 23 21:34:30 that's *algorithm* Feb 23 21:34:34 not design Feb 23 21:34:50 design is a real form, a piece of metal/plastic Feb 23 21:35:15 Aero is protected that way Feb 23 21:36:03 (as a graphic design) Feb 23 21:36:13 wtf is Aero? Feb 23 21:36:20 luke-jr, does that shell-slider idea worth all that work?) Feb 23 21:36:22 the UI of Vista Feb 23 21:36:29 IIRC, M$ was suing over WIMP Feb 23 21:36:39 WIMP is not a design Feb 23 21:36:47 wazd_n800: maybe not, I'm just annoyed with the poor keyboard Feb 23 21:36:49 and it's not a *new* one Feb 23 21:37:06 it could use more work, but find one as thin Feb 23 21:37:19 the dpad a'la gameboy could be used I guess Feb 23 21:37:27 (not exactly the same ofc) Feb 23 21:37:39 I was quite happy with the Zaurus SL-Cx60 keyboard Feb 23 21:37:50 also, Nokia just had them from e-series Feb 23 21:38:00 Zaurus is larger Feb 23 21:38:08 only because of the battery Feb 23 21:38:17 no, it's thicker Feb 23 21:38:27 even w/o battery Feb 23 21:38:30 I'm happy with Mitsumi original xD Feb 23 21:38:34 ok, slightly Feb 23 21:38:49 not where it matters Feb 23 21:38:50 this n810 keyboard is chiclet Feb 23 21:38:56 cheap Feb 23 21:39:02 it still fits in my pocket Feb 23 21:39:18 and also used for e-series I think Feb 23 21:39:43 AStorm, nope Feb 23 21:39:49 usability is far more important than a tiny bit of depth Feb 23 21:39:55 wazd_n800, no? similar enough Feb 23 21:40:08 AStorm, as I feel it - E90 kb is better Feb 23 21:40:29 hmmh Feb 23 21:40:39 e90 is newer Feb 23 22:10:15 anybody know if maemo 5 will be compatible with nokia 810 tablets? Feb 23 22:12:50 torkiano, not officially. Feb 23 22:12:53 ~mer Feb 23 22:12:54 i guess mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Feb 23 22:15:57 GeneralAntilles: very interesting, thank you Feb 23 22:16:24 torkiano, Fremantle's going to support a lot of hardware features that aren't available on the current generation of tablets. Feb 23 22:17:01 Nokia decided that it'd be more feasible to put any backport efforts into a community effort instead of trying to support it officially. Feb 23 22:21:10 GeneralAntilles: It would great if fremantle support old hardware too :( Feb 23 22:21:25 mer is a official initiative from Nokia? Feb 23 22:21:49 torkiano, it's a community initiative that's receiving Nokia support. Feb 23 22:23:04 "Making Maemo a generic platform for all tablet devices, including non-Nokia ones." -> essential in my point of view Feb 23 22:23:11 see android, for example Feb 23 22:23:47 It's unfortunate that Android and LiMo, etc are getting so much press when that's really where Nokia should have positioned Maemo. Feb 23 22:24:47 hey, is there someone here that syncs gpe to a syncml server? i have a server running but i am not sure how to sync to it Feb 23 22:27:04 GeneralAntilles: yes, but you can install andorid in a phone, a laptop or a nokia 810... Feb 23 22:31:49 anyway i would like to start to develop for maemo. I would start with fremantle or wait for mer? Feb 23 22:32:36 Well, do you own a device? Feb 23 22:35:02 GeneralAntilles: yes, a n810 Feb 23 22:35:34 Well, Fremantle's current SDK releas isn't quite ready for application development. Feb 23 22:36:04 Mer is largely compatible with Diablo, so developing for Mer or Diablo will work. Feb 23 22:36:43 I installed sdk+, is it compatible with mer? Feb 23 22:41:13 GeneralAntilles: http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 23 23:01:18 hey, i seem to be having something strange, halfway apt-get update, my device gives up.. and just times out on all the links, here is the output: http://pastebin.com/m3cf541e4 did anyone ever get something like this? Feb 23 23:05:16 it looks like you might have a bad connection, have you tryed with a different acses point? Feb 23 23:07:14 @guysoft42 Feb 23 23:11:31 just fixed it.. it seemed to be because of the usb network Feb 23 23:11:40 b-man, ^ Feb 23 23:11:57 ipn Feb 23 23:12:37 guysoft42: sweet :) Feb 23 23:13:25 i am trying to get some solution to sync up to a funambol server i set up.. and it seems to be giving me a hard time Feb 23 23:19:28 * b-man really hates maemo-launcher :P Feb 23 23:27:21 ill ponder it some more anyway Feb 23 23:27:25 balls Feb 23 23:27:34 * lcuk meant to be in the console Feb 23 23:51:14 ok this is strange.. my application catalogs has vanished,however the file at /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager is still ok.. Feb 23 23:51:19 did anyone ever get this? Feb 23 23:56:17 hmm.. is there a way to update all the xml file of hildon-application manager from apt-get? Feb 24 01:16:49 * FireFox16 Feb 24 02:18:01 des^^: Feb 24 02:18:26 Oops, in wrong window... Feb 24 02:39:19 hell i am in trobble.. Feb 24 02:39:53 um, what to do if i foolishly did a dist-upgrade. and lost tar? now i carn't install anything Feb 24 02:56:18 Guysoft: um, do you have busybox ? Feb 24 02:56:41 If so, a symlink for tar to busybox should work **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 24 02:59:57 2009