**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 24 02:59:57 2009 Feb 24 03:31:29 The promoter seems to think e2fsprogs is in Extras Feb 24 03:31:34 but I don't see it there. Feb 24 03:34:04 Ah, nevermind. Feb 24 03:34:09 So, why isn't it promoted? Feb 24 03:35:28 jott: >_> Feb 24 03:35:52 anyone heard from jott in the last month or two? lol Feb 24 03:35:56 No Feb 24 03:36:04 :( Feb 24 03:36:09 His nick is always here Feb 24 03:36:18 But he hasn't responded in maybe 4 months. Feb 24 03:36:21 haven't heard from him since I got back from the summit O_o Feb 24 03:36:31 I'm actually kinda worried about him :/ Feb 24 03:36:44 Yeah, I dunno. Feb 24 03:36:48 You have his number? :P Feb 24 03:36:57 ah, yeah I do Feb 24 03:37:00 i forgot Feb 24 03:37:05 maybe I should give him a call Feb 24 03:37:06 heh Feb 24 03:37:47 qwerty12_N800 would be able to confirm, but it seems like he's had some activity elsewhere. Feb 24 03:38:16 As the rotation packages were updated for 43-7 and I think he may have been active on the Qt lists. Feb 24 03:54:25 Shopper 0.5 lost my list. :( Feb 24 03:55:15 That's . . . obnoxious. Feb 24 03:55:23 Apparently it can't use older lists. :\ Feb 24 03:55:26 No import, no warning. Feb 24 03:55:40 <_< Feb 24 03:56:29 Qt port is a bit rough. Feb 24 03:56:31 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Feb 24 03:56:38 I don't have the energy to recreate that list. Feb 24 03:57:11 poor GA :( Feb 24 03:58:00 Poor is right. How am I supposed to continue eating if I can't remember those buy-one-get-one-free deals? :P Feb 24 04:01:49 timelE61i, no i dont :( Feb 24 04:02:10 timelE61i, i think it removed busybox and that what killed it Feb 24 04:03:40 i am quite in a problem here, its 6AM, i want to sleep, but my maemo is not well :S Feb 24 04:03:57 isn't there a way to bypass bash: ./tar: cannot execute binary file ? Feb 24 04:04:03 guysoft42, recommendation for the future: don't leave the SDK repo enabled on-device. ;) Feb 24 04:04:46 GeneralAntilles, any one for the present? i mean, apt-get is working.. all i need is the basic package Feb 24 04:05:20 GeneralAntilles, and i have ssh.. i thought i might be able to ssh as root, then i could use the dpkg tool on my system.. Feb 24 04:05:37 but i carn't get the root to allow ssh Feb 24 04:05:43 it wants a password Feb 24 04:06:54 um, where can i get the busybox binary? Feb 24 04:09:49 can anyone send me the busybox binary? it does not seem to exist in the repo Feb 24 04:13:37 can someone please send me a link to the busybox binary, i am compiling the damn thing at this point :S Feb 24 04:15:11 :checklist.c:(.text+0x54): undefined reference to `waddch' dammit.. Feb 24 04:19:53 guysoft42: which busybox? Feb 24 04:19:53 GeneralAntilles, could you by chance send me your busybox file from /bin? Feb 24 04:20:11 benson, /bin/busybox Feb 24 04:20:29 i just tried the armel one in lenny and got ./busybox: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.7' not found (required by ./busybox) Feb 24 04:20:47 There's one in /mnt/initfs, perhaps you could use it still? Feb 24 04:21:23 -bash: /mnt/initfs/bin/busybox: No such file or directory .. strange, it exists , maybe its a symnlink? Feb 24 04:22:08 benson, could you maybe give me that file? i REALLY need it Feb 24 04:22:20 You'ld need to chroot... oh wait, choot is busybox, isn't it! Feb 24 04:22:27 s/ho/hro/ Feb 24 04:22:28 benson meant: You'ld need to chroot... oh wait, chroot is busybox, isn't it! Feb 24 04:23:05 i am in the right chroot. but i need basic tools in the system Feb 24 04:24:28 I mean chroot /mnt/initfs, only of course... chroot is busybox. Feb 24 04:25:43 benh, i can see initramfs Feb 24 04:26:18 its not really there Feb 24 04:26:26 i think its symnlinks or something Feb 24 04:26:33 but i carnt check Feb 24 04:26:54 guysoft42: http://rapidshare.com/files/201830140/busybox.html Feb 24 04:27:13 thank god ... just a sec Feb 24 04:27:59 yay it works! Feb 24 04:30:27 benson, could you do the same thing with tar? perhaps? Feb 24 04:30:35 ah wait nevermind Feb 24 04:30:38 tar is busybox Feb 24 04:30:43 just symlink Feb 24 04:31:10 sudo busybox su ysy! Feb 24 04:31:14 yay!* Feb 24 04:40:56 yay! thanks benson .. i got apt working Feb 24 04:47:35 ok. i have passed a dist-upgrade Feb 24 04:53:20 oh hell, it didn't boot Feb 24 05:32:17 good morning Feb 24 05:41:03 your isp looks like mine and it ain't morning around here Feb 24 05:41:21 true Feb 24 05:41:39 http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Feb 24 05:42:37 :) Feb 24 05:53:10 too bloody early Feb 24 05:53:26 hello stskeeps Feb 24 05:56:10 is there an official package for the Hildon version of wxWidgets? Feb 24 05:56:20 or even an unofficial, but maintained package Feb 24 05:58:23 jaem: maybe in extras Feb 24 06:01:49 ...doesn't look like it Feb 24 06:02:11 I suppose I'll just compile it myself Feb 24 06:15:47 hm Feb 24 06:16:02 hi Feb 24 06:53:21 stskeeps: to make Debian's package work on Maemo, I just have to change one ./configure switch. I'm reading through the packaging policy, but for a modification that small, is there much I need to worry about? Feb 24 07:02:23 Maemo packaging policy? i'd say just put a changelog entry with maemo1 :P Feb 24 07:06:01 okay -that's easy Feb 24 07:06:03 providing this works Feb 24 07:06:31 I have my friend's server remoted on my second monitor, running the Maemo SDK VM Feb 24 07:07:12 but there's some issue with NX, which is remapping a whole bunch of my non-alphanumeric keys to strange things, so typing on the remote is annoying Feb 24 07:07:54 hehe, yeah Feb 24 07:08:22 it's funny listening to the Mer builder standing behind me, heh Feb 24 07:08:30 oh? Feb 24 07:08:43 means i have audiotory(sp) response to when my builds are stalled or dead :P Feb 24 07:08:55 yeah... I know what you mean Feb 24 07:09:38 my desktop is fairly quiet when building, but I was doing a lot of OpenEmbedded builds overnight last year, and I'd often drift off to sleep with my last conscious thought being "oh darn, the build failed" Feb 24 07:10:02 hehe Feb 24 07:10:47 I suppose the package should be called wxmaemo, right? I seem to remember hearing it called that, despite there not being a package, AFAIK Feb 24 07:11:30 i thought there was wxwindows port really Feb 24 07:12:01 with wxGTK Feb 24 07:12:09 I couldn't find any reference to an actual package - just a blog post telling people about the --with-hildon switch Feb 24 07:12:12 ah Feb 24 07:12:19 i would actually call it the original name Feb 24 07:12:31 so applications written for wx will automatically pick it up Feb 24 07:12:34 someone commenting on the blog mentioned something about a now-out-of-date package, but the link was dead Feb 24 07:13:21 http://wxwidgets.blogspot.com/2007/11/hildonizing-wxgtk.html refers to it as wxMaemo, which was why I thought I would Feb 24 07:13:40 it probably should be differentiated from the standard GTK (non-hildon) lib Feb 24 07:14:03 why, though? Feb 24 07:14:13 if it has same API.. Feb 24 07:14:24 but i guess jeremiah_ might be a good person to ask about this Feb 24 07:14:57 the various wxwidgets packages I've seen on other platforms all had names corresponding to their toolkit Feb 24 07:15:17 mm Feb 24 07:15:31 and the blog calling it that was linked to from the news item on the wxWidgets site Feb 24 07:15:34 so I just assumed... Feb 24 07:16:06 well can the wx apps pick it up and use it straight away? Feb 24 07:16:21 hildon support for wxwidgets is in svn version Feb 24 07:16:40 mikkov_ it appears to be in the stable version Feb 24 07:16:54 judging by the package source I pulled from debian Feb 24 07:17:36 and, stskeeps: I'm just talking about the package name Feb 24 07:17:42 I won't change the libs or anything Feb 24 07:17:54 ok, I thought that it will in 2.9 version Feb 24 07:17:55 k Feb 24 07:18:02 jaem: still, build-dependancies Feb 24 07:18:13 stskeeps: okay, that's a good point Feb 24 07:18:24 package has to be the same Feb 24 07:18:54 there's no point in changing that Feb 24 07:19:00 sure Feb 24 07:20:15 still i'd check with jeremiah_ first before uploading to extras :) Feb 24 07:20:21 willdo Feb 24 07:20:22 as it might potentially break stuff Feb 24 07:20:36 for now, I'll just change the switch, and disable OpenGL Feb 24 07:20:39 that should do it Feb 24 07:22:14 if the package version is 2.8.7.1-1.1 in Debian, what should I enter it as for the maemo build? I haven't actually packaged anything for other people before, so I don't know the proper ways of things Feb 24 07:22:52 the maemo policy describes versioning quite well Feb 24 07:24:07 * Stskeeps watches Xomap build Feb 24 07:24:52 add maemo1 Feb 24 07:25:18 yes, thanks Feb 24 07:26:01 qwerty12_N800: was apt ever uploaded to builder or want me to do that? Feb 24 07:26:55 Stskeeps: i was waiting for it to be tested... I can upload but will not give a shit if it fucks up Feb 24 07:27:12 qwerty12_N800: fair enough, will test during today Feb 24 07:27:26 then we can upload sources and put it through builder i guess Feb 24 07:27:36 has to be armel-native anyway as the code is C++ :/ Feb 24 07:28:12 wxwidgets is called wxwidgets. If you would have change package name for maemo specific changes, all packages would be maemo-something Feb 24 07:29:06 which, thanks to maemo's copyright policies, cannot be done any more Feb 24 07:29:31 okay, sorry for my confusion Feb 24 07:33:19 morning daperl Feb 24 07:44:30 is there a metapackage to get a C/C++ compiler on maemo (on the n810 itself)? just need to be able to compile simple C++ homework from school :) Feb 24 07:44:57 think there is a devel environment thing for it in extras-devel Feb 24 07:45:15 build-essential in sdk repo Feb 24 07:45:40 oh something like build-essential, yeah.. but only on an SDK/scratchbox? Feb 24 07:45:48 has another package replaced python-central? I'm getting the "no installation candidate" error... Feb 24 07:45:53 I guess I could do things manually one by one... Feb 24 07:46:12 Jucato: no, installable on tablets Feb 24 07:46:37 qwerty12_N800: oh thanks. Feb 24 07:46:39 jaem: don't think it ever existed in maemoland :/ Feb 24 07:46:42 * Jucato hunts said repo Feb 24 07:46:55 qwerty12: hmm... what is it, exactly? Feb 24 07:48:19 Not really sure myself but I think it's a system where python modules get managed and get installed into the correct python/site-packages folder Feb 24 07:48:49 grr... this is not the time of night I want to run into this sort of thing... Feb 24 07:49:47 qwerty12_N800: would this be the source of the repo? http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 24 07:50:25 good morning Feb 24 07:50:41 ooh, animated startup screen in svn Feb 24 07:51:12 no moar static hands ;) Feb 24 07:51:18 does anyone know how to set kernel console output to N810's screen? Feb 24 07:51:21 now it's a creepy hand crabbing the kid instead? :P Feb 24 07:51:54 sts, there only teh codes, no animation Feb 24 07:52:09 I'm compiling the kernel by myself but for some reason it keeps on rebooting (maybe because kernel panic during bootup Feb 24 07:52:11 damnit ;) Feb 24 07:52:33 herwood: don't you forgot to use an initrd? Feb 24 07:52:36 qwerty12: it's in fremantle, but not diablo Feb 24 07:53:20 it's only a build-dep, so would there be any issue if I just grab the deb for now, to see if this works, and do it properly when I've had more sleep? Feb 24 07:53:36 Corsac: yes, I'm using initrd but I suppose that I have something wrong with my kernel configure Feb 24 07:53:41 sts, but it seems to use gstreamer and include a conffile. so i guess it's whatever you want Feb 24 07:53:42 oh wait... never mind Feb 24 07:53:45 not an issue Feb 24 07:53:46 or the modules I'm using Feb 24 07:53:57 inz: we so need some animation for mer with that happy shark.. Feb 24 07:54:31 damn happy sharks Feb 24 07:54:48 sharks are suppose to be fierce!! Not happy Feb 24 07:55:27 big teeth, but jaws, big RAWR I'M GOING TO EAT YOU NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM Feb 24 07:55:34 herwood: I mean, don't your forget to say that you're using an initrd at build time? Feb 24 07:55:34 Jucato, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3405#add_comment Feb 24 07:56:04 herwood, http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Boot_messages Feb 24 07:56:21 do sharks really nom nom nom? or is it more like CRUNCH, bloody water, gore, oh the humanity Feb 24 07:56:33 qwerty12: thanks Feb 24 07:56:43 I don't know... the ones I deal with just sniff packets Feb 24 07:56:46 heh Feb 24 07:57:07 shark, packet shark, shark in the packet, gonna need a bigger switch Feb 24 07:57:14 ~feed Proteous to a shark Feb 24 07:57:15 * infobot gives Proteous to a shark on a paper plate and seats Proteous on the park bench. Feb 24 07:57:23 heh Feb 24 07:57:33 qwerty12: thanks, I'll try that out Feb 24 07:57:59 my friend was trying to find a good model of a shark made of wire to hang in his dorm Feb 24 07:58:05 but alas, we couldn't find anything Feb 24 08:02:18 my brother made some sweet dragons out of wire Feb 24 08:02:27 sadly there are no pics of them on the interwebs that I know of Feb 24 08:02:42 yes, but that lacks the geek humour quality of a wire shark Feb 24 08:02:59 still - it sounds cool Feb 24 08:03:27 you kids and you wire sharks, in my day we didn't have any animals, if we wanted to sniff packets we had to use more ethereal things Feb 24 08:03:36 touche Feb 24 08:03:40 :) Feb 24 08:03:50 (that had an invisible accent on the e, btw) Feb 24 08:07:46 it's the thought that counts? Feb 24 08:08:05 that's what they say Feb 24 08:08:28 which is why I think of being nice to people, and then don't Feb 24 08:20:27 a wire spider is cooler Feb 24 08:23:25 isn't that what you take fries out of the deep fryer with... Feb 24 08:26:54 wire basket maybe Feb 24 08:29:28 http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31xZ3cDi1%2BL._SL500_AA280_.jpg Feb 24 08:29:56 lol, bored? Feb 24 08:30:07 http://www.amazon.com/Helens-Kitchen-7-Inch-Spider-Skimmer/dp/B000PKQ5PE/ref=pd_sbs_hg_9 Feb 24 08:30:10 heh Feb 24 08:37:18 Visa extension time. Feb 24 08:37:21 * RST38h hates this crap Feb 24 08:38:57 wow... I really need to figure out what's going wrong with NX on my remote machine Feb 24 08:39:07 I can't use the arrow keys, because they're remapped for some rreason Feb 24 08:39:17 but the numpad arrow keys work Feb 24 08:39:25 usually... unless they decide to type random letters Feb 24 08:39:28 :S Feb 24 08:40:05 oh, and to get the mouse out of the remote window, I have to move it really "forcefully", as if I have to smash out of the window (no pun intended) Feb 24 08:40:11 grr Feb 24 08:50:54 * Stskeepz thinks everything is a lot faster with Xomap. Feb 24 09:10:20 Meh, hildon-welcome didn't work in diablo too easily Feb 24 09:11:13 hildon-welcome ?? Feb 24 09:11:36 timelE61i: new animated splash screen it seems like Feb 24 09:11:46 yup Feb 24 09:12:03 i expect it to be E.T reaching out with his magic finger. Feb 24 09:12:21 Sts, that would be c00l ;) Feb 24 09:12:29 not entirely unlike http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/newsite/movies/1980s/1982/reg/et-finger.jpg Feb 24 09:12:38 (how does this not look like the current splash?) Feb 24 09:13:03 Sts, (no how) Feb 24 09:14:38 Morning, all Feb 24 09:14:58 morning Jaffa Feb 24 09:15:25 Whoah, it was because I had defined a video with sound _and_ a soundfile Feb 24 09:15:36 I removed the soundfile, and now I gots animated hadns, yay! Feb 24 09:15:38 hehe Feb 24 09:15:50 inz: sounds... wasteful Feb 24 09:16:02 Jaffa, it does, doesn't it ;) Feb 24 09:16:33 Diablo's libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev didn't include .pc for gstreamer-interfaces and diablo doesn't have playbin2 -element, otherwise it seems to work just fine Feb 24 09:20:38 Hehehehe: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/24/windows-3-1-running-on-nokia-n95-is-both-awesome-and-depressing/ Feb 24 09:21:54 RST, the article title says it all... Feb 24 09:22:35 Pinch Media, whose analytics engine can be used to track the performance of participating iPhone apps, has found that merely 30 percent of people purchasing iPhone apps use them the next day, and free apps clock in at a miserable 20 percent Feb 24 09:22:44 * Stskeepz wonders what similar stats are for maemo Feb 24 09:23:18 Mostlikely the same Feb 24 09:23:44 BTW this means that you are absolutely not supposed to distribute free app demos Feb 24 09:23:54 Won't get a single sale. Feb 24 09:24:13 hi Feb 24 09:24:33 morning Feb 24 09:24:56 I have a problem when using esbox inside eclipse Feb 24 09:25:42 scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /targets/links/scratchbox.config: No such file or directory Feb 24 09:25:52 timelE61i: can you confirm MB#4141 ? Feb 24 09:26:04 i receive this message from inside eclipse Feb 24 09:26:21 can anybody tell me what is the cause of it? Feb 24 09:35:38 hi, how can i check if device is in offline mode? is there an example in c how to do that anywhere? Feb 24 09:36:47 wb jeremiah_ Feb 24 09:36:53 zs1: libconic maybe Feb 24 09:37:04 howdy! Feb 24 09:45:00 dneary: ta for the referenda results Feb 24 09:45:12 np Feb 24 09:45:22 Close one on the future rules - 2 votes of a difference Feb 24 09:45:50 People seem to be attached to the idea of having a barrier to entry at the same time - "anyone with a maemo.org account" got the smallest number of votes Feb 24 09:46:05 Yeah Feb 24 09:46:11 I'd be interested to hear whether all the RRV fans strategically voted for STV as the lesser evil :) Feb 24 09:51:00 No matter what you are voting on, people seem to want to protect "their" franchise, so they don't want more people able to vote, since it waters down their vote's impact. Feb 24 09:51:49 But an extremely low barrier to entry is wat has made linux so successful, so I say the more, the merrier! Feb 24 09:52:05 jeremiah: Are you sure about it? Feb 24 09:52:09 jeremiah_: on the other hand, imagine a horde of iphone users taking over the community.. Feb 24 09:52:36 Actually, about either of two things (low barrier of entry to linux development and that it was the factor to linux success) Feb 24 09:53:04 RST38h: See Clay Shirky. Feb 24 09:53:11 Stskeepz: I doubt that will happen though. Feb 24 09:53:20 iPhone users are not developers. Feb 24 09:54:31 herzi: um Feb 24 09:54:35 jeremiah_: was more referring to if some rogue flashmob decided to participate in the vote Feb 24 09:55:29 jeremiah: Wiki says it is some guy writing about internet. So? Feb 24 09:55:45 Stskeeps: Yeah, always a problem. But inherent in democratic systems. Feb 24 09:56:16 RST38h: He will answer your question about low barrier to entry and the success of linux. Feb 24 09:56:40 jeremiah: He does not appear to provide any numeric data on these subjects Feb 24 09:56:52 jeremiah_: well, if we compare to democratic systems it isn't possible to let's say, take most of switzerland and move it to denmark, and use that increased vote to grab political power, due to the need for citizenship :P Feb 24 09:57:10 which is why there should be some bar to voting Feb 24 09:57:24 jeremiah: As for motivational stuff, you probably know it yourself how useless it is Feb 24 09:58:57 interesting example: 2700 students tried joining the FDP (liberal party in Germany) in Berlin in 2001 Feb 24 09:59:04 ^^ these things have to be avoided somehow Feb 24 09:59:17 German article about it: http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/studium/0,1518,150985,00.html Feb 24 09:59:21 hrmf, it seems more and more that the choice of cpu is more about what software it can run then what abilities it has... Feb 24 10:00:00 herzi: is there anything wrong about it? Feb 24 10:00:30 RST38h: if people try taking over the power and throwing out old members of the party, there is... Feb 24 10:01:26 herzi: Sounds like a good idea Feb 24 10:02:30 some level of fresh blood is always good in politics. but there can always be to much of something... Feb 24 10:02:38 That's why a sane organization will have merit/experience based governance Feb 24 10:03:30 then the question becomes, how to count said merit/experience... Feb 24 10:03:43 Hmm Fremantle will have a video animated logo during boot. Fancy ;) Feb 24 10:04:26 yay, more battery draining bling... Feb 24 10:04:27 Stskeeps: Time to backport hildon-welcome ;) Feb 24 10:04:46 X-Fade: what kind of video? Feb 24 10:05:01 RST38h: Probably the Nokia hands? Feb 24 10:05:07 X-Fade: yeah, inz did it earlier Feb 24 10:05:15 RST38h: no video, just code Feb 24 10:05:28 X-Fade: that would be the same as phones Feb 24 10:05:31 ah Feb 24 10:05:41 i hoped for a clip from E.T :P Feb 24 10:05:42 Yeah, but now it is a static image. Feb 24 10:05:54 * RST38h does not see much difference Feb 24 10:06:01 And that video can always be replaced of course ;) Feb 24 10:06:18 Wondering what they will do about av player though Feb 24 10:06:25 http://googlemapsbikethere.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/et_poster.jpg Feb 24 10:07:47 X-Fade: In trying to build the latest linitan on garage.maemo.org, I need to install a bunch of packages. Feb 24 10:07:57 X-Fade: I don't want to do this without talking to you about it. Feb 24 10:08:27 X-Fade: Most of the stuff is used to satisfy a Docbook -> SGML dependency. Feb 24 10:08:43 jeremiah_: Can't you build it without docs? Feb 24 10:09:21 X-Fade: Tried a little bit, it may be possible. Feb 24 10:15:59 tekojo: curious, when you say platforms do you mean HW platforms or SW platforms? (as in, let's say if a technical question on kernel level or nokia HW drivers?) Feb 24 10:16:56 (that part-time person) Feb 24 10:17:31 X-Fade: No, I don't it is possible without the SGML tools. Feb 24 10:17:46 jeremiah_: Crappy package then :) Feb 24 10:18:19 Crappy and well documented. :) Feb 24 10:18:38 well documented open source? i don't believe it Feb 24 10:18:38 :P Feb 24 10:18:38 jeremiah_: But go ahead and install the deps. Feb 24 10:18:51 I can use the current lintian instead, we are going to hack on it anyway. Feb 24 10:19:05 jeremiah_: lintian is already installed? Feb 24 10:19:09 So I am not going to install ten thousand deps. Feb 24 10:19:20 Yep Feb 24 10:19:31 Just an older version of lintian is installed. Feb 24 10:19:37 But totally usable. Feb 24 10:19:46 So that's what I'll use. Feb 24 10:37:28 Stskeeps: software, I have no clue on hardware Feb 24 10:38:43 Stskeeps: but we can always try to find out Feb 24 10:39:39 jeremiah_: re 4138 the text reads like it was written by a finn Feb 24 10:39:45 (lack of articles) Feb 24 10:39:59 (also, lack of capitalization of proper nouns) Feb 24 10:40:31 gah Feb 24 10:40:44 that file would make Clippy cry Feb 24 10:42:12 * timelyx frowns Feb 24 10:42:35 it looks like at least every second line in that file has an error, it's probably closer to 80% of all lines need work Feb 24 10:43:10 there are various other gems "non compatible" Feb 24 10:43:19 "The crucial line here is to notice" Feb 24 10:43:58 also, http://www.angryflower.com/ Feb 24 10:44:03 (abuse of it's) Feb 24 10:48:43 * timelyx wonders where andre__ is Feb 24 10:49:14 * sp3000 was under the impression that every second was a finglism Feb 24 10:50:00 * timelyx ponders Feb 24 10:50:04 it's quite likely i've been poisoned Feb 24 10:50:22 every other would be the more normal phrase Feb 24 10:50:57 yeah, i've been poisoned Feb 24 10:51:01 does Nokia pay for rehab? Feb 24 10:51:03 or Finland? Feb 24 10:51:12 i'm entitled to Finnish services, can i get outpatient ? :) Feb 24 10:53:16 * timelyx frowns Feb 24 10:53:26 why the heck would someone complain about PAPER settings for an n800? Feb 24 10:53:34 did they find the top secret key? Feb 24 10:53:54 oh wow Feb 24 10:54:01 * timelyx didn't know that you could buy an n800 in .au Feb 24 10:55:34 sp3000: so, i'm starving Feb 24 10:55:40 where is your tummy? :) Feb 24 10:55:45 timelyx: heh Feb 24 10:56:27 * Stskeeps ponders idly if he just got rooted by a pdf hack Feb 24 10:56:30 jeremiah_: if you have MS Word, please fix that document until you can't see green squiglies Feb 24 10:56:43 (make sure you start by seeing them, if you don't, you didn't pay enough) Feb 24 10:56:53 timelyx: Sorry, no Microsoft software available. Feb 24 10:57:06 um... expense it :) Feb 24 10:57:18 but seriously... Feb 24 10:57:25 But I will edit and fix anyway. Feb 24 10:57:27 i'm not sure the state of grammar checking in open office Feb 24 10:57:36 i think a baseline is that you do a diff Feb 24 10:57:40 -y Feb 24 10:57:57 if you see more than 1 line in a row where the compare marker is "unchanged" Feb 24 10:58:02 you haven't fixed everything :) Feb 24 10:58:05 timelyx: My dad taught English, so my grammer checking is pretty good. :P Feb 24 10:58:12 s/grammer/grammar/ Feb 24 10:58:26 heh Feb 24 10:58:36 thanks btw Feb 24 10:58:40 I speak pretty. Feb 24 10:58:49 Better you than me - for that error Feb 24 10:59:08 wha? Is timelyx not timelE61i? Feb 24 10:59:16 um.. Feb 24 10:59:22 * timelE61i is mobile Feb 24 10:59:26 * timelE61i is terse Feb 24 10:59:34 * timelE61i is walking to lunch Feb 24 10:59:53 don't bump into the cantina lady while chatting and walking, they get rather irritated :P Feb 24 10:59:54 * jeremiah_ Is waving to timelE61i Feb 24 11:00:51 Going to get lunch! Feb 24 11:01:21 sp3000: fwiw, they fixed my laptop Feb 24 11:02:54 timelyx, hmm? Feb 24 11:03:51 bugs need importing Feb 24 11:08:41 Hello ! Feb 24 11:08:58 * Khertan is lost ... can't work ... gmail down ... Feb 24 11:09:30 beer time? :P Feb 24 11:11:57 Khertan: spend your time setting up a mailserver of your own? :) Feb 24 11:12:32 good time to walk to work Feb 24 11:12:49 And it means you should have configured offline Feb 24 11:13:16 yep :) Feb 24 11:13:45 * aquatix would be less productive without his VPS, but would still be able to get stuff done Feb 24 11:13:55 to a degree Feb 24 11:18:29 timelE61i: aw, that sucks :) Feb 24 11:18:44 lunch sounds good Feb 24 11:18:56 k Feb 24 11:19:09 * timelE61i just spoke w/ mail qa Feb 24 11:19:21 actually, you're xMins away? Feb 24 11:19:32 aquatix: i use the backup solution ;) Feb 24 11:19:48 gmail is just concataining other imap account :) Feb 24 11:20:04 but it is a real pain ... over 15 account to consult Feb 24 11:21:22 fun Feb 24 11:21:29 i do the same with my own mail server Feb 24 11:21:41 so would have similar issues Feb 24 11:21:47 Khertan: btw, imap seems to work Feb 24 11:21:52 with my gmail account Feb 24 11:22:16 oh really? Feb 24 11:23:24 seems so Feb 24 11:23:48 hm, my gmail works odd too Feb 24 11:23:52 yep Feb 24 11:23:58 imap for my gmail works Feb 24 11:24:05 while the website gives an error Feb 24 11:24:17 now this is interesting: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8848023892.html Feb 24 11:27:46 t_s_o: *wants* Feb 24 11:28:22 aquatix: not mine Feb 24 11:28:36 meh Feb 24 11:28:42 imap not working here on the domain account Feb 24 11:28:46 ah Feb 24 11:28:48 but work on my personnal one Feb 24 11:28:55 * aquatix has a regular one Feb 24 11:29:03 too bad ;( Feb 24 11:29:05 * :( Feb 24 11:42:38 heh, danish tech newspaper "gmail and google apps in global breakdown. Danish Company Not Panicking Yet." Feb 24 11:46:24 héhé Feb 24 11:47:03 for french : http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/49302-gmail-inaccessible-google-courriers-electroniques.htm?vc=1 Feb 24 11:47:09 http://www.20minutes.fr/article/304480/High-Tech-Gmail-la-messagerie-de-Google-est-en-panne.php Feb 24 11:47:14 http://www.lejdd.fr/cmc/scanner/media/200909/google-des-soucis-sur-gmail_189870.html?popup Feb 24 11:47:15 Stskeeps: :) Feb 24 11:47:21 Khertan: spam :P Feb 24 11:48:26 502 server error : Feb 24 11:48:26 502 Service Temporarily Overloaded :Server congestion; too many connections; high traffic. Keep trying until the page loads. Feb 24 11:48:28 :) Feb 24 11:48:31 yep Feb 24 11:48:46 but with a message retry in 30 seconds it ll not be better :) Feb 24 11:49:49 funny gmail for s40 work Feb 24 11:49:51 s Feb 24 11:50:36 just keep your refresh buttons pressed ;) Feb 24 11:50:47 yep :) Feb 24 12:00:37 "For example, a fighter equipped with an active electronically scanned array radar could cross an enemy radar beam and instantly transmit computer viruses into its processor. Such a capability still remains a distant goal, but is rapidly gaining interest." (C) BAE Systems VP\ Feb 24 12:00:56 heh Feb 24 12:01:05 haha Feb 24 12:01:07 that's interesting Feb 24 12:01:10 Somebody is gonna be fired from BAE in a year or two... Feb 24 12:01:15 a good story to get lots of r&d money from some idiots for sure Feb 24 12:01:35 glass: I wonder what happens when the customer comes knocking though... Feb 24 12:01:51 RST38h: s/knocking/throwing? Feb 24 12:01:55 RST38h: "sorry, as we said it was experimental, give 20 mil more" Feb 24 12:01:58 or firing :) Feb 24 12:02:08 RST38h: then you can buy your own aa guns Feb 24 12:02:16 heheh Feb 24 12:02:35 "this introduces hardware bugs into their cpu's" Feb 24 12:02:38 but even if they want to build such a thing, you would have to know exactly how the enemy's computer and machinery works Feb 24 12:02:49 glass: hehehe Feb 24 12:02:57 aquatix: didn'y you see independence day?-D Feb 24 12:03:10 glass: yep :) Feb 24 12:03:25 my inner geek crinched a bit at that scene Feb 24 12:03:45 hell, they even had a hardware interface Feb 24 12:03:54 otoh, they had a ship for ages to study Feb 24 12:04:16 aquatix: see, there is another problem here Feb 24 12:04:22 aquatix: yeah.. maybe the explanation was that ALL of humans computers are actually built on that alien tech haha Feb 24 12:04:36 glass: ha :) Feb 24 12:04:55 * aquatix doesn't quite remember what medium they used to transfer the virus Feb 24 12:05:02 some disk i think Feb 24 12:05:05 aquatix: it is well known how active radar works Feb 24 12:05:28 yep Feb 24 12:05:31 aquatix: and the whole sensing part is analogue, it has nothing to do with computing Feb 24 12:05:37 indeed Feb 24 12:05:46 hell, most of them work with plain video Feb 24 12:05:55 Not video of course Feb 24 12:05:56 morning chaps Feb 24 12:07:15 The output part of a radar looks more like a huge plumbing job, as UHF waves are toured through pipes Feb 24 12:07:24 routed Feb 24 12:08:23 ah right Feb 24 12:12:36 X-Fade: ping Feb 24 12:15:39 lardman: pong. Feb 24 12:16:43 I was just going to point out a curious heading on the Garage pages, but I suppose I should sumbit a bug about it actually Feb 24 12:20:41 could someone do a driveby of my house and see if its burning down? Feb 24 12:20:58 any reason it should be? Feb 24 12:21:15 cant ping it Feb 24 12:21:19 nor vnc into it Feb 24 12:21:24 Instructions for resetting your password have been emailed ... hum Feb 24 12:21:35 lcuk_homeless: you're hosting gmail? :P Feb 24 12:21:43 * Khertan turn around ... turn around the Feb 24 12:21:47 lcuk_homeless: oops Feb 24 12:21:54 ;) Feb 24 12:21:56 lol Stskeeps i did think there was a curious similarity Feb 24 12:22:14 khertan, if you use gmail you wont get your new email Feb 24 12:22:20 yep Feb 24 12:22:21 i know Feb 24 12:22:41 this was to retrieve the password of an imap account Feb 24 12:22:53 anyone got Tear installed? Where does libidn11 come from? Feb 24 12:22:54 lcuk: I think your home computer has been listed as the backup MX server for gmail.com ... Feb 24 12:22:57 which is retrieved automatically by gmail when he work Feb 24 12:23:08 s/he/it Feb 24 12:23:14 s/work/works Feb 24 12:23:26 but... the password have just been sent to gmail Feb 24 12:23:31 no luck Feb 24 12:23:40 well, you could say your password is safe Feb 24 12:23:47 yep Feb 24 12:23:48 from what i read imap access to g accounts is fine Feb 24 12:23:54 its the html interface thats goosed Feb 24 12:23:58 not on mine Feb 24 12:24:05 HO ! Feb 24 12:24:16 i got html refresh Feb 24 12:24:24 and html works Feb 24 12:24:34 Khertan: does pygtkeditor run in windows Feb 24 12:24:35 heh Feb 24 12:25:59 yep, gmail works again here Feb 24 12:26:01 ~lart the bloody browser for trying to download .debs as txt Feb 24 12:26:01 * infobot whacks the bloody browser with the cluebat for trying to download .debs as txt Feb 24 12:26:03 lcuk_homeless with some modifications which is in the version 3.0 Feb 24 12:26:15 pygtk / python and gtk installed ... yes Feb 24 12:26:20 lardman: that's the bloody server saying it's plaintext Feb 24 12:26:59 lardman, thats because it thinks you have an altair and you need to manually flip the switches Feb 24 12:27:05 hmm, I have a feeling it's the non-mozilla based browser being crap too though Feb 24 12:27:09 if it gave them as binary you wouldnt know to print it out Feb 24 12:27:33 I wonder how I can go back to the default browser, which works Feb 24 12:27:56 aargh, and file manager keeping going to sleep is annoying too Feb 24 12:28:01 just a bad day all things told Feb 24 12:28:03 which os Feb 24 12:28:10 diablo, latest Feb 24 12:28:18 dont worry, just switch off and sod off half way round the world! Feb 24 12:28:36 the file manager does not sleep (i noticed the behaviour last night) it scans subfolders Feb 24 12:28:43 well yeah, I'll do that soon enough :p Feb 24 12:32:03 * lardman feels like a user Feb 24 12:32:26 perhaps everyone should be made to rush through installing their software, to feel like a user does Feb 24 12:32:28 that file manager surprised me last night with its little things. i was flicking between file manager and console moving files around (entirely on device) and the file manager never mis-stepped . the only problem i had with it was clicking the cursed tree view nodes. the lag was intolerable Feb 24 12:32:48 well it's sorted itself out now, not gone back to sleep Feb 24 12:33:24 but I had to click on a .deb in the browser, stop the binary being displayed, copy and paste into the terminal to use wget to get the file, click on file and see if it would install Feb 24 12:33:30 anyway, can't be arsed Feb 24 12:33:38 ba-jesus Feb 24 12:33:42 why isnt it in extras :P Feb 24 12:33:50 yeah :) Feb 24 12:33:55 and how do I get rid!? Feb 24 12:34:12 rid of what? the deb? Feb 24 12:34:54 call in the a-team, jeremiah_ and qwerty and Stskeeps and johnx (i wont mention which is murdock) Feb 24 12:34:56 no the webkit-eal stuff Feb 24 12:35:09 there;s supposed to be a setting somewhere to disable it.... Feb 24 12:35:29 i dunno Feb 24 12:35:46 i looked at webkit, its not quite what i was expecting Feb 24 12:35:46 ah! Praise the Lord, I found it; an application called webkit settings Feb 24 12:36:03 well it runs nice and fast, but not being able to download is a real pita Feb 24 12:36:26 yeah, its a rendering engine, to make a full app it needs more Feb 24 12:36:29 I wanted to try Tear, but can't install it (at least not easily) Feb 24 12:36:53 the one I have installed is supposed to work with the built-in browser, and it does, but has issues Feb 24 12:39:41 yeah Feb 24 13:06:41 recorded messages in phone calls suck Feb 24 13:21:24 can anyone tell me how to setup a .item for bootmenu for booting to maemo on n800 internal card p2? Feb 24 13:21:36 sure, sec Feb 24 13:22:23 thanks Feb 24 13:23:17 X-Fade: Hi there Feb 24 13:23:32 X-Fade: Do you have the transcript of last week's design meeting, by any chance? Feb 24 13:23:35 hi Feb 24 13:23:50 Hmm I haven't uploaded it yet, it seems. Feb 24 13:23:52 I have it. Feb 24 13:24:37 I'll upload it. Feb 24 13:24:45 lemmyslender: http://rafb.net/p/cLiyeh61.html Feb 24 13:24:56 and then refresh_bootmenu.d after putting that item in /etc/bootmenu.d Feb 24 13:28:20 ok, I was close. screwed it up last night, but was able to easily reflash and get back up and running. Feb 24 13:28:47 where is refresh_bootmenu.d located? I assume run from root? Feb 24 13:29:45 dneary: They are available now. Feb 24 13:30:02 Found it in XChat logs Feb 24 13:30:06 lemmyslender: yeah Feb 24 13:30:20 dneary: Needed to upload them anyway ;) Feb 24 13:33:31 hola world Feb 24 13:33:48 hola Feb 24 13:33:51 We have superb weather today) Feb 24 13:34:01 wazd_n800: seems like fremantle will have animated start screen ;p Feb 24 13:34:06 Stskeeps: where do I run it from -- location? Feb 24 13:34:24 lemmyslender: just in a root shell. did you install the bootmenu pointed to from mer instructions? Feb 24 13:34:43 Stskeeps, hmm?) Feb 24 13:35:02 wazd_n800: as in playing a video when starting. where the Nokia Hands are normally Feb 24 13:35:40 eww Feb 24 13:35:57 installed last night, got booted into Mer (with flash available) eventually booted into flash to redo bootmenu to get sd boot back Feb 24 13:36:06 Stskeeps, hmmm) xD Feb 24 13:36:13 I'll try re-installing bootmenu Feb 24 13:36:44 nevermind, got it. Feb 24 13:36:47 k Feb 24 13:37:13 Stskeeps, so Mer would have it too?) Feb 24 13:37:20 wazd_n800: hehe, possibly Feb 24 13:37:35 not sure why it's good, but if you can come up with something creative :I) Feb 24 13:37:45 Stskeeps: Now you can have that shark swimming at you ;) Feb 24 13:38:28 and sinking nokian tire)) Feb 24 13:38:48 wazd_n800: Would be pretty funny ;) Feb 24 13:39:18 Any Blender artists here? :) Feb 24 13:39:28 X-Fade: i hate the concept of animated start screen from CPU perspective, but from coolness perspective.. :> Feb 24 13:39:44 waste of time, cpu and storage Feb 24 13:39:52 Stskeeps: Thanks, worked wonderfully. I now have the ability to boot to Mer (external) and Maemo (internal). Feb 24 13:39:55 Stskeeps: Yeah, but bling sells ;) Feb 24 13:40:12 jaska, use console everywhere then) Feb 24 13:40:26 moo wazd Feb 24 13:40:34 how are things? Feb 24 13:40:35 X-Fade, I'm learning 3ds now Feb 24 13:40:59 wazd_n800: Well, sounds like you got yourself a project.. Feb 24 13:41:08 Does the power button work in Mer 0.8? Feb 24 13:41:09 RST38h, heya, heading home from the country) Feb 24 13:41:24 RST38h, my mom was impressed with Ti emu) Feb 24 13:41:30 lemmyslender: apt-get update; apt-get install powerlaunch; reboot Feb 24 13:41:58 wazd: heh =) Feb 24 13:41:58 ahh, ok will try that later. Feb 24 13:42:02 X-Fade, not sure I can do something I'd be proud of)) Feb 24 13:42:09 TI83+ still proves to be elusive though Feb 24 13:42:29 hangs "Defragmenting memory..." Feb 24 13:42:36 RST38h, she's an engineer and a teacher :) Feb 24 13:43:14 * Khertan really need an anti virus for his windows ... Feb 24 13:44:14 lemmyslender: feel free to document it on wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation as a thanks for getting helped :) Feb 24 13:44:30 (the dual boot stuff) Feb 24 13:44:48 Khertan: free.avg.com Feb 24 13:44:51 Stskeeps, I'm studing 3ds cause I have tons of concepts to render but all my "friends" are lazy bastards Feb 24 13:45:01 wazd: Need a real one? =) Feb 24 13:45:45 RST38h, yep :D Feb 24 13:46:07 ack Feb 24 13:46:09 aquatix: i mean a real antivirus Feb 24 13:46:27 RST38h, can't find any fricking modeller to help in 2 years Feb 24 13:46:31 Khertan: ah, you mean a complete whipe and install of a *nix Feb 24 13:46:31 not something that just popup a barbershop sscrolling Feb 24 13:47:07 aquatix: in fact ... i just recover my windows wmware image due to a virus Feb 24 13:47:17 and i lost 3 hours of work Feb 24 13:47:30 i use winxp over a vm :) Feb 24 13:48:01 ah Feb 24 13:48:09 is maemo's clock app opensourced? Feb 24 13:48:38 it has very good image panning example Feb 24 13:49:01 the applet? Feb 24 13:49:08 I thought to use it in metromap Feb 24 13:49:28 aquatix, no, settings and alarms Feb 24 13:49:28 ah wait, the app Feb 24 13:49:30 yeah Feb 24 13:49:38 aquatix, the map Feb 24 13:49:42 indeed Feb 24 13:49:44 figured :) Feb 24 13:50:19 dunno Feb 24 13:50:30 doesn't it use the same map widget as the agps app? Feb 24 13:51:04 guys, what should I kill to force rescan my media with builtin player? Feb 24 13:51:12 aquatix, Dunno Feb 24 13:51:26 wazd_n800: why do you need to force a recscan? Feb 24 13:51:31 hm, that's something i want to know too Feb 24 13:51:49 it looks like it has a broken index on some music here Feb 24 13:51:52 like, no tags Feb 24 13:52:13 and it doesn't help when moving the files and such Feb 24 13:52:23 wazd: the actual world map is CC SA 3.0 :P Feb 24 13:52:47 Jaffa, well, cause it don't want to scan it ) Feb 24 13:52:59 * Stskeeps ponders on the application launcher that is pannable sideways, and is just a big pannablearea widget.. Feb 24 13:53:30 Jaffa, I've moved my media to another card and now it shows "no media" Feb 24 13:54:06 wazd_n800: tried restarting the daemon from terminal? Feb 24 13:54:29 aquatix, I've asked for it)) Feb 24 13:54:45 aquatix, how can I do it?) Feb 24 13:54:49 ah Feb 24 13:55:42 well, as root type "/etc/init.d/metalayer-crawler0 Feb 24 13:55:47 i think that's the one Feb 24 13:55:58 and without the quotes, erm quote :) Feb 24 13:56:19 hm, or is it mediaplayer-daemon :/ Feb 24 13:56:33 * aquatix even has a multimediad :) Feb 24 13:57:05 lol Feb 24 13:57:52 wb wazd_n800 :) Feb 24 13:58:10 aquatix, hildon-desktop hanged) Feb 24 13:58:15 :( Feb 24 13:58:53 metalayer-crawler should die Feb 24 13:59:43 Stskeeps: but that's the daemon refreshing mediaplayer's db right? Feb 24 13:59:53 yes, but it is also evil :P Feb 24 13:59:59 i knows Feb 24 14:00:08 * aquatix gets some coffee Feb 24 14:00:17 why the hell player doesn't have refresh option) Feb 24 14:00:24 yeah Feb 24 14:00:31 well, because it should work automagically Feb 24 14:00:36 wazd_n800: tracker in fremantle looks a lot saner, thank god Feb 24 14:00:43 * aquatix finds canola works best Feb 24 14:00:54 anyways, bbl Feb 24 14:01:27 Hi Feb 24 14:01:42 Hmmz wrong one ;) Feb 24 14:03:46 canola is heavy. I don't need a plane to go to the grocery) Feb 24 14:03:54 heh Feb 24 14:03:57 true Feb 24 14:04:19 i rather like the default mediaplayer for music Feb 24 14:05:32 I don't listen to lastfm, podcasts and other stuff so builtin mp is just fine) Feb 24 14:07:04 k, my trainstop, bbl) Feb 24 14:09:38 Khertan: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27101 Feb 24 14:11:24 Anyone had any issues with the Fn key not working at all (in Maemo)? Feb 24 14:11:31 I suspect it might be a hardware problem Feb 24 14:11:48 Jaffa: was someone in here yesterday talking of a similar problem Feb 24 14:12:18 Stskeeps: interesting. Feb 24 14:12:42 best way to figure out if it's HW or SW is to see if xev receives a proper keycode and 2) if setxkbmap -print shows nokiarx44 as modl Feb 24 14:13:33 Yup. Had planned on playing with the approach Mer's used to to see if that'd coax it back into life Feb 24 14:15:19 it kinda uses same approach as maemo (now) :P Feb 24 14:15:44 Yeah, but I wonder if the gconf(?) value which makes it work got unset Feb 24 14:15:50 Jaffa: Re: Fn key... When I drop my N810 (no, not me!), all touchscreen and keyboard opps go away until I shutdown and let it sit for a minute. Have you tried something as simple as this? Feb 24 14:16:07 Jaffa: verify lshal | grep xkb.model says nokiarx44 too Feb 24 14:17:13 timsamoff: I rebooted it since seeing the problem over the weekend; but haven't let it sit quietly and off Feb 24 14:17:28 Stskeeps: ta. It's at home unloved today. Oh, but I can prolly ssh in to it Feb 24 14:18:09 Stskeeps: No. It doesn't. Interesting. Feb 24 14:18:17 Jaffa: hmm. what does it say then? Feb 24 14:18:19 Jaffa: Just rebotting didn't work for me. Feb 24 14:18:32 * Stskeeps has three things to do today when home: 1) test if wifi finally works on 770 cos nm-applet is rebuilt 2) eat dinner 3) curl up in a fetal position and shake off this beginning flu Feb 24 14:19:00 Stskeeps: nothing returned from that grep Feb 24 14:19:05 Jaffa: hmm. Feb 24 14:19:08 timsamoff: ta - I'll try that Feb 24 14:19:11 how about grep "Internal keyboard" Feb 24 14:19:47 Jaffa: And, I definitely "rebotted." :p Feb 24 14:19:48 ooh. Feb 24 14:20:02 Got 3 lines for grep -i keyboard, and none of them contains a Nokia/RX-44 or similar reference Feb 24 14:20:13 Jaffa: sounds like HAL not detecting it then Feb 24 14:26:54 hm Feb 24 14:26:58 installed kubuntu on my old dual p3 Feb 24 14:27:02 and wow does it run like shit Feb 24 14:28:28 Well, it should fly once you get rid of KDE Feb 24 14:28:38 haha Feb 24 14:28:54 i dunno. i don't think gnome would do any better Feb 24 14:29:10 then again.. i have all the effects turned on .. with its zippy nvidia 5500 Feb 24 14:29:14 Czech prime minister complains that Eu is turning into USSR =) Feb 24 14:29:28 sounds like the US Feb 24 14:29:29 :) Feb 24 14:29:46 * RST38h always said that US had to occupy .CZ rather than Afghanistan Feb 24 14:30:14 * timsamoff doesn't think the US should occupy anyone. Arg. Feb 24 14:30:16 Better climate, harmless people, safer place Feb 24 14:30:16 i always say we shouldn't occupy anywhere :) but that's just me Feb 24 14:30:24 haha Feb 24 14:30:32 timsamoff: Yes, but if *not* occupying is not an option, what would you prefer? Feb 24 14:30:41 RST38h: ... not enough oil ;) Feb 24 14:30:54 Macer: but there is beer! Feb 24 14:31:03 beer? Feb 24 14:31:03 can't run cars off beer Feb 24 14:31:16 probably can, after turning it into biodiesel Feb 24 14:31:20 me can occupy some beer, yes. Feb 24 14:31:28 * timsamoff can't type, though. Feb 24 14:31:38 RST38h: cheaper to just spend fake money on a war in iraq Feb 24 14:31:57 Macer: Not really Feb 24 14:32:23 ethanol was supposed ot be a good thing.. but that doesn't seem to work unless you have a modified engine Feb 24 14:32:37 plus.. you get less miles so the cost is the same if not higher Feb 24 14:32:53 A diesel engine will run on just about anything Feb 24 14:33:00 Macer: Most cars post-2007 can use E85. Feb 24 14:33:17 timsamoff: that's not a fair share of cars on the road Feb 24 14:33:21 Of course, the one in your Jetta probably won't but making somethign suitable is not THAT difficult Feb 24 14:33:37 Macer: True, but... It's a start. Not as good as electric, though. Feb 24 14:33:45 Macer: Do google for diesel car mileage figures ;) Feb 24 14:33:56 RST38h: difficult enough where i would rather just go to the pump and pay the saudis some money Feb 24 14:33:58 forget ethanol Feb 24 14:34:19 can't.. we have corn here Feb 24 14:34:21 lots of it :) Feb 24 14:34:25 Macer: next time you visit gas station, look carefully and you will usually find a diesel pump Feb 24 14:34:25 We wanted to buy a Turbo Diesel Beetle, but couldn't afford it. Feb 24 14:34:38 home sweet home) Feb 24 14:34:45 RST38h: yes.. there is. but diesel is just as high as gasoline per mile Feb 24 14:34:48 wazd: As in "finally"? =) Feb 24 14:34:57 Macer: Right now yes Feb 24 14:34:58 hello Feb 24 14:34:58 RST38h: yep) Feb 24 14:35:02 diesel burns slower and lasts longer but it also has a slightly higher price Feb 24 14:35:03 hey wazd :) Feb 24 14:35:05 Macer: It will go down in a few months though Feb 24 14:35:18 what voip-like or other phone apps can you recommend for use on n810? Feb 24 14:35:23 Macer: Historically, diesel cost about as much as the cheapest unleaded Feb 24 14:35:35 Macer: that is in US Feb 24 14:35:36 it should enable at least two way communication with a (non)standard protocol Feb 24 14:35:37 RST38h: not low enough where i would give up my car and find a diesel one Feb 24 14:35:41 encryption is a plus Feb 24 14:35:48 udovdh: Skype Feb 24 14:35:51 RST38h: Currently, it costs more than Supreme Unleaded. Feb 24 14:36:03 diesel is quite a bit cheaper here Feb 24 14:36:06 ...but provides better mileage. Feb 24 14:36:07 timsamoff: I suspect it will go down with recession Feb 24 14:36:08 RST38h, skype is being backdoored Feb 24 14:36:14 it is, yes Feb 24 14:36:17 RST38h, tehrefor my question to find alternatives Feb 24 14:36:20 RST38h: so will gasoline Feb 24 14:36:20 we have pgpfone Feb 24 14:36:21 but taxes on diesel cars are higher Feb 24 14:36:23 but are you going to say anything that you care about? Feb 24 14:36:27 but I found no Linux source for that one Feb 24 14:36:42 gasoline is $1.70 here for cheaper stuff.. and I'm in chicago which usually has a higher price because demand is higher Feb 24 14:36:55 RST38h, fuel prices won't go any lower. Feb 24 14:37:01 crude is at the bottom or very close Feb 24 14:37:06 A good electric for french constructor is something with 150km of autonomy Feb 24 14:37:06 and taxes will only rise Feb 24 14:37:09 especially in the USA Feb 24 14:37:13 Chicago and Kansas City (where I am) are about the same. Feb 24 14:37:14 and 8 hour to recharge it Feb 24 14:37:16 because the government is bankrupt Feb 24 14:37:20 and needs money Feb 24 14:37:21 * aquatix pays about 1.19 EUR/liter for E95 gasoline here; diesel is about .98 Feb 24 14:37:29 specially for peugeot and renault ... Feb 24 14:37:29 haha Feb 24 14:37:31 I'll be in San Francisco Thursday and gas is still pretty high there. Feb 24 14:37:46 and with the price of the car ... it cheaper to buy a diesel powered car Feb 24 14:37:52 I can get diesel for 93 eurocents at a cheap unmanned tank Feb 24 14:37:57 diesel rules Feb 24 14:38:06 pfff Feb 24 14:38:07 timsamoff: let's see what wikipedia has to say abou thet differences between KC and Chicago Feb 24 14:38:07 I am in the netherlands of course Feb 24 14:38:13 fuel rules ! Feb 24 14:38:13 $.55 for a litre of AI92 here Feb 24 14:38:17 one of the most taxed countries Feb 24 14:38:27 RST38h, then you can't complain Feb 24 14:38:29 udovdh ... not possible Feb 24 14:38:30 at all Feb 24 14:38:35 udovdh, it is\ Feb 24 14:38:37 france is worst Feb 24 14:38:39 ah wait, diesel is 0.909 EUR/liter at `my' tank Feb 24 14:38:46 udovdh: Ah but we are having an academic discussion whether diesel is better/cheaper :) Feb 24 14:38:47 udovdh: Tinq? Feb 24 14:38:47 one of the... (top 5?) Feb 24 14:38:56 aquatix, tinq yes Feb 24 14:39:02 heh, same here Feb 24 14:39:07 but a non-tinq is nearby within 2 cents of that price Feb 24 14:39:12 but i think i've about the cheapest in quite a bit area Feb 24 14:39:24 would like to get 1000L or so and store it for later Feb 24 14:39:27 but got no room Feb 24 14:39:30 heh Feb 24 14:39:40 that would be the wise thing to do Feb 24 14:39:45 prices will go up Feb 24 14:39:48 and quickly if the ydo Feb 24 14:39:49 Macer: BTW, corn oil will most likely make good diesel fuel =) Feb 24 14:39:57 Macer: http://www.kcgasprices.com/ Pretty cheap right now. Feb 24 14:40:08 well, for that project you can even come over to this tank and pay only 0.909EUR/l :) Feb 24 14:40:16 bio-diesel is (raw plant oil!) is expensive over here Feb 24 14:40:26 and a stupid idea anyway Feb 24 14:40:35 RST38h: if it could bre made quicker and more efficient than it is Feb 24 14:40:40 like we don't need the resources for food Feb 24 14:40:41 official price is 0.999/L Feb 24 14:40:56 10 cents off or so at tinq? Feb 24 14:41:00 I think gas, diesel prices will go up, but will not go up as much as one expects. Feb 24 14:41:05 havent looked since the lates drop Feb 24 14:41:10 using 1,000,000 gal of normal diesel to produce 1,000,010 gal of corn diesel :) Feb 24 14:41:16 that math makes it worthless Feb 24 14:41:18 This recession is pretty bad in the US. Feb 24 14:41:26 jeremiah_, in two years crude will be over 70, close to 100 perhaps Feb 24 14:41:28 udovdh: http://tinq.nl/index.php?section=vestigingitem&id=204 :) Feb 24 14:41:29 And the US uses a _lot_of gas. Feb 24 14:41:37 jeremiah_: Tell me about it. Feb 24 14:41:37 udovdh: Don't be so sure. :) Feb 24 14:41:38 indeed Feb 24 14:41:43 jeremiah_, why not? Feb 24 14:41:48 macer: http://biodieselfromcorn.com/biodiesel-conversion/homemade-ethanol-still-capable-of-making-100-gallons-of-ethanol-daily-video/ hehehe Feb 24 14:41:50 here diesel is around 1,120 Euro for 1 liter Feb 24 14:41:51 Very hard to predict the price of oil. Feb 24 14:41:54 crisis will pass, in short or long time Feb 24 14:41:58 economy will reover Feb 24 14:42:02 udovdh: but Tinq tanks vary in price a bit Feb 24 14:42:04 lol Feb 24 14:42:08 oil wells are on the way out Feb 24 14:42:13 jeremiah_: not at all ... it s always grow up Feb 24 14:42:14 udovdh: Before or after everybody starves? =) Feb 24 14:42:16 so no new investments in the crisis Feb 24 14:42:16 i think you can't have an "ethanol" still in your house legally can you? Feb 24 14:42:25 Macer: No idea Feb 24 14:42:29 ethanol is moonshine liquor Feb 24 14:42:32 means that demand will be met with small production Feb 24 14:42:36 :) Feb 24 14:42:37 keesj: Nope, sometimes it goes down. :) Feb 24 14:42:47 you would be arrested or fined ... forget which one Feb 24 14:42:50 udovdh: No, I doubt that. Feb 24 14:42:53 Macer: I got to try moonshine in North Carolina not too long ago. Feb 24 14:42:56 Fun times. Feb 24 14:42:59 Try to get OPEC to rein in production! Feb 24 14:43:05 timsamoff: well. that's all ethanol is Feb 24 14:43:07 Or Russia, or Venezuela! Feb 24 14:43:09 jeremiah_, wells are emptying. production was already going down Feb 24 14:43:10 it's just extremely high grade liquor Feb 24 14:43:12 haha Feb 24 14:43:17 now we have the crisis Feb 24 14:43:17 jeremiah: INVADE! INVADE! Feb 24 14:43:17 ;) Feb 24 14:43:17 jeremiah_: already doing that i thought? Feb 24 14:43:20 no new investments Feb 24 14:43:20 * RST38h hides Feb 24 14:43:23 no new wells Feb 24 14:43:25 no new sources Feb 24 14:43:26 udovdh: Again, no. There is plenty of oil outh there. Feb 24 14:43:30 then demand rises Feb 24 14:43:38 jeremiah_, yes there may be oil Feb 24 14:43:45 but why is there the peak oil story? Feb 24 14:43:53 udovdh: it won't be the end of the world.. we already have alternatives.. and will need to use them Feb 24 14:44:00 is there really massive oil in alaska? Feb 24 14:44:10 Macer, I am not preaching an end Feb 24 14:44:14 udovdh: There is but it is hard to mine Feb 24 14:44:14 udovdh: There is some, hard (expensive) to get at Feb 24 14:44:16 just a possibility Feb 24 14:44:18 udovdh: most people think it will be though Feb 24 14:44:32 we need something for the next 100 years or so Feb 24 14:44:39 we know how to make things that work to make cars go that doesn't require millions of years of biomatter degeneration Feb 24 14:44:40 I'll get me a 2 or 3 liter car Feb 24 14:44:41 There is a lot of Natural Gas, perhaps a third of the world's reserves under the artic though. Feb 24 14:44:49 :) Feb 24 14:44:55 Macer, oil might be abiotic Feb 24 14:45:04 our cars run off dinosaurs and trees Feb 24 14:45:32 Macer: The US just needs more.better public transit. Feb 24 14:45:36 but no other phone-like apps for linix? Feb 24 14:45:40 linux? Feb 24 14:45:55 gizmo and skype are the only ones i know of Feb 24 14:45:57 i use skype Feb 24 14:46:04 timsamoff: which will also make gadget revolution possible! Feb 24 14:46:15 timsamoff: lots of time on a train/bus instead of steering Feb 24 14:46:21 i don't even have a normal phone other than my cell.. i just pay $50/yr for skype at the house and have cordless skype phones :) Feb 24 14:46:30 it's great other than having to dial 001areacodenumber Feb 24 14:46:46 but i can deal with that to avoid paying 50/month Feb 24 14:46:52 udovdh: ekiga? Feb 24 14:46:55 RST38h: Exactly. Feb 24 14:47:11 aquatix, runs on n810? ok.. does encryption? Feb 24 14:47:21 Yeah, in Japan they use their phones a lot more because they use so much public transportation. Feb 24 14:47:23 timsamoff: it is not going to be possible with suburbia though Feb 24 14:47:23 erm, not on the n810 i think Feb 24 14:47:38 and i don't think oil is abiotic Feb 24 14:47:40 Yeah, America is predicated on having a car. Feb 24 14:47:47 udovdh: it does standard SIP stuff, like gizmo does too Feb 24 14:47:49 need something lightweight, but sturdy enough Feb 24 14:47:50 timsamoff: if you ever used any of a suburban buses, you know what I mean Feb 24 14:47:58 possibly standards compliant in some way or the other Feb 24 14:48:11 timsamoff: as in "2 hours to get to a point 3 miles away" Feb 24 14:48:12 hmm, curious fact: you don't need to go through Nokia repos to install skype for N8x0 Feb 24 14:48:14 maybe to humanity :) Feb 24 14:48:22 RST38h: I know... Took me 2.5 hours to get somewhere in suburbia a few years back -- which would have been a 20 min. drive! Feb 24 14:48:27 ah well.. ttyl.. going to take a nap Feb 24 14:48:33 Macer: sleep well :) Feb 24 14:48:36 timsamoff: I sometimes just WALKED. Feb 24 14:48:47 RST38h: whoa :P Feb 24 14:48:50 timsamoff: Which also feels weird because there are so few sidewalks Feb 24 14:49:48 RST38h, obama can make more of them Feb 24 14:49:55 good for the economy and the environment Feb 24 14:50:12 close half of the bases on foreign soil Feb 24 14:50:15 and save the country Feb 24 14:50:18 udovdh: it is a fundamental routing problem. Obama can't solve topological problems Feb 24 14:50:33 no, USA is small. think big! Feb 24 14:50:43 so start with simple things like sidewalks Feb 24 14:50:47 denser building of villages Feb 24 14:50:53 so walking makes sense Feb 24 14:50:59 public transportation then Feb 24 14:51:00 etc Feb 24 14:51:08 udovdh: they are already uncomfortable dense due to past real estate bubble Feb 24 14:51:21 as in the dutch 'rijtjeshuis'? Feb 24 14:51:33 udovdh: dunno what it is Feb 24 14:51:34 i.e.: houses built directly to their neighbors Feb 24 14:51:38 your mom is uncomfortably dense Feb 24 14:51:39 without any room in between? Feb 24 14:51:46 oh, wait, this isn't the your mom channel Feb 24 14:51:57 udovdh: yes basically, with 1-2m spaces between blind walls Feb 24 14:52:00 with at least one non-0ground floor? Feb 24 14:52:14 RST38h, close, but in the netherlands stuff is closer Feb 24 14:52:20 in the `normal` areas Feb 24 14:52:21 udovdhL yes, I understand Feb 24 14:52:40 so it is not as bad, as I udnerstand fro RST38h, as in a small village in australia Feb 24 14:52:44 where everyoen has a few acres Feb 24 14:52:52 and a hosue on one ground floor Feb 24 14:53:00 which wastes space Feb 24 14:53:17 and creates way too much distance between houses to make walking to a supermarket praktical Feb 24 14:54:03 udovdh: this will be too small for most US homeowners Feb 24 14:54:22 they might need to adapt... Feb 24 14:54:33 to make life sustainable Feb 24 14:54:34 udovdh: go tell that to everybody :) Feb 24 14:54:39 either financially\ Feb 24 14:54:44 or environmentally Feb 24 14:54:49 or both? Feb 24 14:54:55 it takes time RST38h Feb 24 14:55:02 it won't chnage quickly Feb 24 14:55:10 but a gradual change in the direction I paint Feb 24 14:55:19 could solve a few issues partly Feb 24 14:55:21 mostly takes misery :) Feb 24 14:55:27 i.e.: they might help Feb 24 14:56:35 hm, 491.26 persons per square km here in the netherlands Feb 24 14:57:35 according to the CIA stats book? Feb 24 14:57:47 33.16 for the US Feb 24 14:57:48 now comapre to long island Feb 24 14:57:48 yeah Feb 24 14:57:50 4900/km^2 in Moscow Feb 24 14:57:57 or costal region of bangladesh Feb 24 14:58:02 RST38h: this is complete netherlands Feb 24 14:58:08 Enjoy: http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/largest-cities-density-125.html Feb 24 14:58:11 population / total land Feb 24 14:58:23 cities versus countries Feb 24 14:58:24 RST38h: including a lot of rural area :) Feb 24 14:58:35 Taipei is 15200 Feb 24 14:58:47 RST38h: you're talking about cities now, i'm talking countries ;) Feb 24 14:58:58 udovdh: I hope you understand how meaningless av. country figure would be for .RU :) Feb 24 14:59:29 for us it is 31 I see? Feb 24 14:59:40 http://www.liechtenstein.li/en/pdf-fl-multimedia-information-bilateral-usa-praesentation.pdf Feb 24 15:00:22 RST38h: that citymayors site fucks up both the land area and population of helsinki Feb 24 15:00:40 suihkulokki: Acknowledged. Looking for an alternate source. Feb 24 15:00:45 ah http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_POP060200.htm Feb 24 15:01:46 udovdh: eh? Feb 24 15:02:02 79.x/KM^2 for usa Feb 24 15:02:21 average density of population per square km Feb 24 15:02:28 21.5/km^2 for RU is you choose to believe Wiki Feb 24 15:02:30 i just gave the numbers :) Feb 24 15:02:37 15:56:35 aquatix | hm, 491.26 persons per square km here in the netherlands Feb 24 15:02:41 15:57:47 aquatix | 33.16 for the US Feb 24 15:02:46 (as I said it is kinda meaningless unless we are talking of a small EU country) Feb 24 15:02:51 RST38h: true Feb 24 15:02:58 aquatix, the graph I quote says different number Feb 24 15:03:09 oh... per square mile. Feb 24 15:03:12 :-) Feb 24 15:03:15 *g* Feb 24 15:03:45 miles have been deprecated for a while ;) Feb 24 15:03:58 yes.. Feb 24 15:04:32 * RST38h is seriously thinking of disabling Java in FireFox Feb 24 15:04:40 ``to convert square kilometers to square miles, divide by 2.58999'' - 79 / 2.59 is about 33 Feb 24 15:04:51 Every time I see the dreaded cup icon, it means FF3 is gonna die Feb 24 15:05:02 well, what lets you? Feb 24 15:05:04 RST38h, ? Feb 24 15:05:19 udovdh: "?" is my reaction as well Feb 24 15:08:08 Found it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population Feb 24 15:11:28 !gcalc 79 km^2 in square miles Feb 24 15:11:28 79 (km^2) = 30.5020705 square miles Feb 24 15:13:01 inz: it was 79 persons per km^2 Feb 24 15:15:16 !gcalc 79/km^2 in square mile^-1 Feb 24 15:15:16 79 / (km^2) = 204.609061 square (mile^(-1)) Feb 24 15:15:32 heh Feb 24 15:15:57 79 per square mile it was. Feb 24 15:16:03 now in km Feb 24 15:16:07 ah yes Feb 24 15:16:21 !gcalc 1 square mile in square km Feb 24 15:16:22 1 (square mile) = 2.58998811 square kilometers Feb 24 15:16:34 !gcalc 79 / 2.58998811 Feb 24 15:16:35 79 / 2.58998811 = 30.5020705 Feb 24 15:16:42 huh Feb 24 15:19:06 danke Feb 24 15:19:12 30.5 it is Feb 24 15:19:17 maybe round up to 31 Feb 24 15:19:23 becauase it was 79.x Feb 24 15:19:53 !gcalc light speed in angstrom per fortnight Feb 24 15:19:54 the speed of light = 3.62628957 * 10^24 angstrom per fortnight Feb 24 15:19:56 hey qwerty12_N800 Feb 24 15:20:10 Corsac: heheheh Feb 24 15:20:15 hi aquatix :) Feb 24 15:21:30 Anyone happen to know what that thing for ubuntu is where it runs fsck upon shutdown - not while booting up >. on shutdown? ick Feb 24 15:23:55 Ok, lets say I want to rip some of my dvds to video files to be played on N810, and my Netbook (has a screen rez of 1028x600 and I might want to play them on my psp also whats the best format and size for the riped movies Feb 24 15:24:09 or do I need to keep several copys of my movies Feb 24 15:25:58 I got a strange question Feb 24 15:26:14 andrewfblack: I'd encode one version for each. Feb 24 15:26:15 andrewfblack: i think you might want to rip to a higher res for your netbook than for the n810 Feb 24 15:26:21 hmm. nevermind Feb 24 15:26:41 andrewfblack: i found that 320x240 (or similar) works fine on the n810 Feb 24 15:26:49 maybe slightly higher res Feb 24 15:26:55 netbook can do more Feb 24 15:27:12 guess i'll just stick with the 2 copys and just get a bigger hard drive for my home server lol Feb 24 15:27:17 * aquatix had 640x480 on his n810 but that lags quite a bit Feb 24 15:27:22 andrewfblack: yep ;) Feb 24 15:27:27 1TB is cheap nowadays :P Feb 24 15:27:29 * hanno is waiting for the new Nx00 hardware and hopes it will play full res video at 60fps. Feb 24 15:27:39 what res? Feb 24 15:27:42 my usual lamento, i guess. Feb 24 15:27:43 hanno, what's "full res"? Feb 24 15:27:54 800x480. Feb 24 15:28:06 that'd be nice yes Feb 24 15:28:08 Too bad the OMAP36x's aren't coming out until late 2009. Feb 24 15:28:13 720p will work fine. Feb 24 15:28:14 hanno: wh 60? why not 120? Feb 24 15:28:40 * RST38h assumes LCD will stay the same, so 120 will be kinda excessive Feb 24 15:28:40 wazd: 60 fps is NTSC dvd format. Feb 24 15:28:53 if I ever get something to watch my digital videos on my big screen tv I guess I'll be having a third version of my files as well Feb 24 15:29:09 I think 30fps would be just fine Feb 24 15:29:12 andrewfblack, 360s are good for that. ;) Feb 24 15:29:29 60fps are for gamers :) Feb 24 15:29:41 also make good space heaters... Feb 24 15:30:00 Actually, I want my future tablet to play native DVD files (720x480 / 720x576) without re-encoding them. Feb 24 15:30:11 GeneralAntilles, yeah but I have a wii and I never play it hate to get a 360 just for media center extender Feb 24 15:30:12 But hey, didn't I mention that far too often on this channel? Feb 24 15:30:42 * RST38h would rather discuss fuel efficiency than upcoming Nxxx Feb 24 15:30:45 andrewfblack, get a Netflix subscription to go with it and you'll be set. Feb 24 15:30:53 RST38h -> #cars Feb 24 15:31:20 #fuelefficency :) Feb 24 15:31:27 25fps is tv isnt it Feb 24 15:31:30 The topic is way too beaten by now and it is perfectly safe to say that the real hardware will be deemed unsatisfactory by most people present =) Feb 24 15:31:30 GeneralAntilles, wouldn't I be better off getting ps3 if I don't care about games and get blue ray player also Feb 24 15:31:40 om_nom: PAL or SECAM TV Feb 24 15:31:50 andrewfblack, dunno, never used a PS3. But they're more expensive. Feb 24 15:31:53 * om_nom_nom thinks the new hardware will be terrific Feb 24 15:33:09 * om_nom_nom looks forward to running it in powersave mode Feb 24 15:33:12 Actually, the legendary RX-51 can be discussed in terms of what it WILL NOT be Feb 24 15:33:37 the rx-51 is just a higher ceiling :) Feb 24 15:33:43 i.e. not a phone, still not a decent video player, no working mail client, etc :) Feb 24 15:34:03 om_nom_nom, where it will likely perform in a vaguely OMAP2-like manner? ;) Feb 24 15:34:05 why not decent video? the mafw is intended to make life easier here Feb 24 15:34:11 RST38h, why not decent video? Feb 24 15:34:18 Yep, why no decent video? Feb 24 15:34:22 General: Dunno, just having this feeling Feb 24 15:34:24 with support for an mplayer backend as well as gstreamer it could be the pill we need Feb 24 15:34:29 RST38h, oh, FUD. Feb 24 15:34:31 Right. . . . Feb 24 15:34:35 General: No, not FUD Feb 24 15:34:49 General: I would actually WANT decent video playback Feb 24 15:34:54 Well, current OMAP3 devices play 720p without issue on the ARM core. Feb 24 15:35:07 General: But got a nagging feeling that *something* will get screwed up again Feb 24 15:35:22 GeneralAntilles: yes, it should perform at omap2 levels or above according to everything ive read. thats important because if it does the additional benefit is even longer battery time Feb 24 15:35:22 So even if Nokia's DSP implementation is total shit, there's still that to fall back on. Feb 24 15:35:32 General: Hopefully... Feb 24 15:35:42 N810 gets *so* close Feb 24 15:35:58 RST38h, you've got no facts to back up your assertion. Feb 24 15:36:23 om_nom_nom, actually (assuming there's nothing preventing it from idling) you're likely to get better battery life in ondemand than powersave. Feb 24 15:36:24 General: Which I openly accept Feb 24 15:36:40 * andrewfblack is searching for a linux distro to replace his windows home server so he can free another computer Feb 24 15:36:55 GeneralAntilles: only if something needs cpu randomly and occasionally, otherwise powersave pwns always Feb 24 15:37:01 andrewfblack: debian 5.0? Feb 24 15:37:14 General: Or maybe I am lowering expectations on purpose, to celebrate when the gadget exceeds them :) Feb 24 15:37:22 om_nom_nom: ondemand does powersaving too Feb 24 15:37:36 om_nom_nom, the point is: race to idle. Feb 24 15:37:41 if a process can operate at fullspeed without ever needing to clock up to fullspeed, then removing the ability myself will give me better perf Feb 24 15:37:46 om_nom_nom: but it uses a faster mode when needing to do stuff, so it races to idle indeed Feb 24 15:37:49 yeah i know Feb 24 15:37:51 ondemand will spend less time with the CPU active than powersave for the same task. Feb 24 15:38:10 * om_nom_nom ate lcuk earlier Feb 24 15:38:19 i know aobut the powersaving stuff Feb 24 15:38:36 was he tasty? Feb 24 15:38:48 Either way, OMAP3 is going to be scary with teh powersaving. Feb 24 15:38:52 a bit northern lol Feb 24 15:39:00 * RST38h finally booted XP Feb 24 15:39:08 * om_nom_nom finds it confusing talking about himself in third person Feb 24 15:40:02 * om_nom_nom wishes he couldget onto home computer Feb 24 15:40:08 ok here is another question for you guys before I encode my video files for tablet and netbook what is best way to get it from dvd? Feb 24 15:40:22 copying from dvds is illegal Feb 24 15:40:33 om_nom_nom: fair use Feb 24 15:40:39 om_nom_nom, no its not if you own the dvd you can back it up Feb 24 15:40:41 om_nom_nom: is not. Feb 24 15:40:41 no its not Feb 24 15:40:48 which country are you in? Feb 24 15:41:14 I havn''t heard of any country that it is illegal to backup your dvd Feb 24 15:41:28 Even if it was, if you were not planning on redistributing the copy, I don't think many would give a shit... Feb 24 15:42:00 MPAA would Feb 24 15:42:09 if I wanted to do something illegal I would save the time of encoding and just download it off line lol Feb 24 15:42:14 sure. but MPAA does not define the law. Feb 24 15:42:22 cool, you can download stuff offline now! Feb 24 15:42:23 even though it looks like they do, at times. Feb 24 15:42:25 oh, btw, any news on a release date for the n810 successor? (I know I asked last week...) Feb 24 15:42:26 wow! OMWeather is the most popular software for Maemo now :P Feb 24 15:42:29 no, but the DMCA does Feb 24 15:42:35 wazd: whoa Feb 24 15:42:52 * RST38h sends black helicopters to andrewblack's Feb 24 15:42:56 om_nom_nom: Which is a US law, so doesn't apply everywhere :) Feb 24 15:43:00 wazd well done, was that a combination of repeat downloads for tweaks? :D Feb 24 15:43:14 Veggen: which is why i asked where he was Feb 24 15:43:14 om_nom_nom: yep, spent 3 weeks to do it xD Feb 24 15:43:19 lol Feb 24 15:43:21 hehe Feb 24 15:43:36 us law says you can copy dvds and cds for backup and you can us the backup to listen/watch as long as you don't watch/listen to both at one time Feb 24 15:43:41 probably listed it as an iPhone utility somewhere ;) Feb 24 15:43:54 andrewfblack: prooflink? Feb 24 15:44:03 andrewfblack: mmm? Feb 24 15:44:12 sounds like pseudolaw Feb 24 15:44:37 * andrewfblack is not GeneralAntilles he doeesn't keep prooflinks in his clipbaord Feb 24 15:44:45 "my friend said i can smuggle diamonds as long as i put them in champagne" Feb 24 15:45:38 you know i could ask for proof I can't do it just as easy I'm sure you odn't have a link handy Feb 24 15:45:40 andrewfblack: US copyright laws have got pretty anal retentive recently Feb 24 15:45:52 oh, btw, any news on a release date for the n810 successor? (I know I asked last week...) Feb 24 15:45:55 andrewfblack: I am not saying you should not copy that DVD, but do keep it in mind Feb 24 15:46:01 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6545255 Feb 24 15:46:03 and a few seconds ago. Feb 24 15:46:07 The Digital Millennium Copyright Act made it illegal to reproduce copyrighted material from DVDs -- even short excerpts. Feb 24 15:46:07 hanno: No. Feb 24 15:46:25 hanno, don't expect anything before the alpha SDK release. Feb 24 15:46:25 om_nom_nom: "reproduce" has a bit different meaning Feb 24 15:46:35 om_nom_nom: As in "quote publicly" Feb 24 15:46:46 hanno : it ll be release only 1 year before the n1010 Feb 24 15:47:25 Hehe, what are we getting first? The N1xxx or the N1xx? Feb 24 15:47:37 om_nom_nom, that link isn't what we are talking about those people wanted to burn several scenes from movies to be shown in class that would be public viewer of the files and yes that is illegal Feb 24 15:47:46 Isn't N1-something a WinCE based GPS device? Feb 24 15:48:08 RST38h, 330 Feb 24 15:48:22 http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/30/nokias-330-auto-navigation-their-first-dedicated-gps-device/ Feb 24 15:48:37 N500 is a gps navi device Feb 24 15:48:57 ah, yes Feb 24 15:48:58 Nokia also do BSD routers Feb 24 15:49:10 i like the 810 :) Feb 24 15:49:10 N500 is 330 older brother ;) Feb 24 15:49:19 * RST38h reminds himself to plant some rumors on iTT Feb 24 15:49:38 Like "N9xx will be running Windows Mobile 6.5" Feb 24 15:49:43 http://www.nokia.com/A4363274 Feb 24 15:49:50 RST38h: heheheh, ick ;) Feb 24 15:49:59 http://www.nokia.fr/A4363274 Feb 24 15:50:06 work better :) Feb 24 15:50:07 RST38h, they'll make the "anti-thanks" button for you ;) Feb 24 15:50:10 Or "N9xx will be programmed in Flash and Silverlight" Feb 24 15:50:19 RST38h: speaking of which: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/18/editorial-ten-reasons-why-windows-mobile-6-5-misses-the-mark/ Feb 24 15:50:36 RST38h: hm, choose one of both and it's even plausible :/ Feb 24 15:50:37 qwerty: Hey, at least I will rid quite a few people of boredom, isn't it a worthy cause? Feb 24 15:50:51 RST38h, nah, it'll be S60 running on Windows CE. Feb 24 15:51:02 with a flash gui Feb 24 15:51:11 aquatix: well, it is the same old crap indeed, we all knew that Feb 24 15:51:13 Khertan: Nokia 810 , LOL :D Feb 24 15:51:27 General: This, unfortunately, is already true Feb 24 15:52:07 * RST38h can almost believe N97 will come with a choice of S60 or Maemo Feb 24 15:52:33 Not this year Feb 24 15:52:36 But maybe next. Feb 24 15:53:00 BTW, HTC is upping all their high end phones with 800x480 screens Feb 24 15:53:17 resolution of n97 is too low for maemo stuff Feb 24 15:53:24 most maemo software will not be happy in the res Feb 24 15:53:30 yea Feb 24 15:53:33 (16:50:13) RST38h: Or "N9xx will be programmed in Flash and Silverlight" << they ve found how to include a nuclear generator in a mobile ? Feb 24 15:53:45 RST38h: they called first model with that resolution HTC Touch ___HD___, didn't they? Feb 24 15:54:07 oli: Correct. But now both normal Touch2 and Touch2 Pro have got it Feb 24 15:54:38 Khertan; AFAIK Flash has got the same kind of event loop as any GUI, so it should be ok =) Feb 24 15:54:43 Dunno about Silverlight. Feb 24 15:55:25 RST38h: IMO the most appropiate screen size for 800/480 is 6" or more Feb 24 15:56:01 * aquatix likes the size of the screen on the n810 with that res Feb 24 15:56:08 oli: Nah, far too large! Feb 24 15:56:16 having it on a htc phone is overkill imho Feb 24 15:56:26 oli: has to fit into my pocket. Feb 24 15:56:26 nice for browsing, but just a tad too small Feb 24 15:56:39 the phones have become bigger too Feb 24 15:56:58 no, they just spent a couple of years being too small Feb 24 15:56:59 aquatix: Should not have to be too small. You can just render larger chars? Only far more beautiful :D Feb 24 15:57:06 phones have historically been large Feb 24 15:57:15 X-Fade: yep Feb 24 15:57:18 see you next week chaps Feb 24 15:57:35 X-Fade: that's one of my own reasons btw :) Feb 24 15:57:40 * aquatix likes highres Feb 24 15:57:45 x-fade, high resolution font glyphs :) Feb 24 15:57:56 I'll take a 500dpi display any day ;) Feb 24 15:57:59 but i think using 800x480 on a htc phone with windows is just... meh Feb 24 15:58:00 800x480 = 5* 320x240 :> Feb 24 15:58:17 * om_nom_nom likes best of both Feb 24 15:58:19 * andrewfblack was just thinking he is more scared of being sued by Nokia for maemobox.org then he is for backing up a dvd Feb 24 15:58:57 andrewfblack, you wont be sued. Feb 24 15:59:05 At worst it'll be a takedown letter. Feb 24 15:59:12 X-Fade, amen! Feb 24 15:59:26 GeneralAntilles, what if I don't listen to the takedown letter :) lol Feb 24 15:59:31 Once we get some nice, resolution independent UIs, the more pixels the merrier. Feb 24 15:59:37 X-Fade: stereo display HUDs Feb 24 16:00:02 andrewfblack: Actually, DMCA does not let copyright owner sue UNTIL he serves you a tekdown notice Feb 24 16:00:05 takedown Feb 24 16:00:23 after that he can sue you Feb 24 16:00:27 once you get resolution independent you forget all about pixels :) (barring a few very extreme cases) Feb 24 16:00:34 * om_nom_nom is nearly there Feb 24 16:00:48 kinda hope nokia lets it slide would be alot of work for me to change it Feb 24 16:01:20 thats the defense the pirate-bay are using Feb 24 16:01:47 Can you imagine FBReader at 600dpi? Feb 24 16:02:27 what dpi is kindle? Feb 24 16:02:40 General: SLOW. Feb 24 16:02:52 om_nom_nom, low. Feb 24 16:02:59 600x800 Feb 24 16:03:06 167dpi for kindle Feb 24 16:03:12 RST38h, assuming there's hardware enough to back it up. Feb 24 16:03:32 with aa fonts thats still double what my monitor is Feb 24 16:03:41 correct Feb 24 16:03:43 qwerty12: apt is c++ btw.. Feb 24 16:03:47 but a printed page is usually 300dpi Feb 24 16:03:53 RST38h, but with that high a DPI, you could halve the resolution and still have it look good. Feb 24 16:04:02 we have used much lower dpis in pdas for years Feb 24 16:04:04 Stskeeps, I know :) (I've rebuilt it for diablo before...) Feb 24 16:04:07 kindle display must be sweet Feb 24 16:04:11 General: You can, need ot have a decent overall size Feb 24 16:04:15 om_nom_nom, and it sucked. Feb 24 16:04:30 qwerty12: upload source to trac and i'll deal with it.. c++ is broken in mer sb Feb 24 16:04:33 General: I.e. more pixels ===> more data to push ==> slow Feb 24 16:04:46 Stskeeps, fuck. You installed it? Feb 24 16:04:51 The deb that is. Feb 24 16:04:55 RST38h, right, which is why I say assume decent enough hardware. Feb 24 16:05:15 qwerty12, woo @ karma boost. ;) Feb 24 16:05:20 qwerty12: yup, test installation though Feb 24 16:05:22 This is actually serious amounts of data, I am afraid current crop of ARM SoCs can;t handle it Feb 24 16:05:34 GeneralAntilles, indeed :) ;) Feb 24 16:05:38 Even 800x480 HTCs are dead slow Feb 24 16:05:51 qwerty12: so it doesn't matter that i brolke it Feb 24 16:06:02 Stskeeps, good. Feb 24 16:13:27 jeremiah_: ? Feb 24 16:16:45 * slonopotamus almost compiled gcc-4.3.2. hehe. Feb 24 16:23:38 filename cfgloopanal.c looks scary :) Feb 24 16:33:02 you know I didn't notice until last night there are 10 pages of games on the downloads maemo page Feb 24 16:59:19 Safari 4's new tabs are obnoxious. Feb 24 17:01:01 nobody cares Feb 24 17:01:03 ;> Feb 24 17:01:32 (except mac fanboi) Feb 24 17:01:46 s/fanboi/users/ Feb 24 17:01:59 nah Feb 24 17:02:11 users should wait for .0.1 Feb 24 17:02:13 GeneralAntilles: is there a difference? Feb 24 17:02:26 mgedmin, I dunno, I'm a user and don't consider myself a fanboi. Feb 24 17:15:42 qwerty12_N800, hum, maemoorg-splash wont update. Feb 24 17:16:52 http://slexy.org/view/s20kchQ7s5 Feb 24 17:17:23 shitfuck. Now I'll have to reboot again :) Feb 24 17:18:28 hmm Feb 24 17:18:42 * AStorm wants something to swear about Feb 24 17:18:52 other than vacuum cleaners Feb 24 17:19:01 economy? Feb 24 17:19:17 old Feb 24 17:19:27 emacs Feb 24 17:19:36 I sweared about the "crisis" already Feb 24 17:19:42 Flying zombies. Feb 24 17:19:44 nah, emacs is too effing good ;) Feb 24 17:19:49 dpkg Feb 24 17:19:52 what the fuck? Feb 24 17:20:00 flying zombies? Feb 24 17:20:02 ;) Feb 24 17:20:21 what about zombies of celestials? Feb 24 17:20:29 or zombie dragons? Feb 24 17:20:34 :P Feb 24 17:20:49 zombie birds Feb 24 17:21:01 nah, they lose feathers Feb 24 17:21:07 and can't fly Feb 24 17:21:14 bats Feb 24 17:21:27 fruitflies Feb 24 17:21:33 fuck set -e Feb 24 17:21:34 of the goddamned kind? Feb 24 17:21:47 cats eating cornflakes Feb 24 17:21:50 NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM Feb 24 17:22:22 can't wait for caturday Feb 24 17:22:36 so many days till that... Feb 24 17:22:41 uh huh Feb 24 17:34:53 gan: i haven't launched saf4 yet Feb 24 17:35:29 timelE61i, can you with 10.3? Feb 24 17:37:01 I guess I should buckle down and recreate my shopping list. Feb 24 17:37:04 lbt, why? :( Feb 24 17:37:15 wXP Feb 24 17:37:29 GeneralAntilles: err. what? Feb 24 17:37:39 lbt, I can't use my shopping list from before. Feb 24 17:37:53 Oh Feb 24 17:38:07 I can :) Feb 24 17:38:09 ah Feb 24 17:38:12 Trying to delete items crashes it. Feb 24 17:38:17 have you any apostrophes in there? Feb 24 17:38:33 I, err, may not escape entities yet Feb 24 17:38:46 Dunno Feb 24 17:38:55 The shopping list doesn't show up in the file chooser at all, though. Feb 24 17:38:56 want to send me the xml? Feb 24 17:39:40 GeneralAntilles, you should find fixed maemo.org & athf ones here: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/splash/ (tested athf-splash and it upgraded fine) Feb 24 17:39:54 lbt, http://slexy.org/view/s2tPtXJKz7 Feb 24 17:40:31 ta - I'll get back to you... Feb 24 17:40:46 lbt, newer one: http://slexy.org/view/s21kmns65z Feb 24 17:40:58 They should at least show up in the open dialog, though, right? Feb 24 17:41:13 qwerty12, OK, uploading. . . . Feb 24 17:44:16 bye Feb 24 18:02:34 GeneralAntilles: try renaming the list to *.xml - I added a filter when I used the Qt filedialog Feb 24 18:03:51 Ah, excellent, that did it. Feb 24 18:04:24 * GeneralAntilles can go to grocery store after he drops off his trashed 360 at the UPS Store, now! Feb 24 18:10:58 I just fixed that and removed the filter Feb 24 18:11:54 I've seen the delete crash - an ASSERT fails - it's sporadic though - grrr Feb 24 18:12:27 anhow - Wii fit now... back l8r Feb 24 18:15:29 rkorototykyiyiuuu8iyiyiyiiyiyiyiyiguygngjgjgjgjgjgjgjifififfkflflfflfl Feb 24 18:15:53 * GeneralAntilles shoots a tranq dart at lcuk. Feb 24 18:16:02 Wow. You just typed my thoughts. Feb 24 18:16:14 t;yly;p;g;yy6o7uopu p 06 5076 jacob Feb 24 18:16:33 dad Feb 24 18:16:49 muu Feb 24 18:16:52 Lets all type nonsense Feb 24 18:16:59 I'm looking for nookie tonight Feb 24 18:17:07 luke Feb 24 18:18:06 Did the kids find the N810? :P Feb 24 18:18:07 what Feb 24 18:18:32 qwerty12: sounds fun? Feb 24 18:18:34 riodgjeorgoerpg[rgpp Feb 24 18:18:36 04t93tgmki0tre Feb 24 18:18:37 If so.. psst, find the latest liqbase library and upload it to www.rapidshare.net Feb 24 18:18:42 s/library/app/ Feb 24 18:18:42 qwerty12 meant: If so.. psst, find the latest liqbase app and upload it to www.rapidshare.net Feb 24 18:19:30 oi, sorry for jacob posting, but qwerty grrr dont have him sending to rapidshare, ive got a paid for ftp account for stuff like that Feb 24 18:19:45 lol Feb 24 18:19:53 GeneralAntilles, its my main machine - we were sidetracked making pancakes Feb 24 18:19:53 lcuk, just be happy he didn't teach him to swear. :P Feb 24 18:20:03 jake knows more Feb 24 18:20:05 :P Feb 24 18:20:14 anyway back soon Feb 24 18:51:12 i am officially crap at tossing this year. Feb 24 18:51:55 tossing? Feb 24 18:52:03 lcuk: don't toss kids Feb 24 18:52:17 they always miss the target Feb 24 18:52:44 timeless, shrove tuesday: pancake tossing Feb 24 18:52:51 lol aquatix Feb 24 19:00:18 Hello Feb 24 19:17:07 weird, my n810 boots to the home screen, lets me start loading apps, then restarts Feb 24 19:17:20 but 2nd time around usually works Feb 24 19:53:40 andre__, it must get old having people assume that Nokia's decisions are yours just because you're the one that has to pass them on. Feb 24 19:55:26 GeneralAntilles, let's shoot the messenger! Feb 24 19:55:32 (any specific one you refer to?) Feb 24 19:55:38 * GeneralAntilles is so game! Feb 24 19:55:46 * GeneralAntilles chases after andre__ with a Nerf gun. Feb 24 19:55:51 Uh, the timezone one right now. Feb 24 19:55:56 /alarms Feb 24 19:56:12 ah Feb 24 19:56:16 * andre__ checks for new hatemail :-P Feb 24 19:56:18 andre__: you're dead many times over in that case :p Feb 24 19:57:21 s/bugmaster/Fall Guy/ Feb 24 19:58:39 i already tried to be clearer by saying "Nokia said", "internal comment", $blah Feb 24 19:58:48 seems there's still room for improvement Feb 24 19:59:21 How about adding "FUCK YOU HATERS!" to the end? Feb 24 19:59:46 :-D Feb 24 20:00:21 qwerty12_N800, i might run into problems with some people paying me, but i can't say that i dislike the idea :-D Feb 24 20:00:39 hi andre__ Feb 24 20:00:59 andre__: hehe, they're haters too in that case :p Feb 24 20:01:18 qwerty12_N800, reminds me of an old ximian hacker five years ago that was nearly fired by novell because of a "why do people always have to fucking argue" comment to a customer in bugzilla Feb 24 20:01:20 Texrat of all people should know better, too. Feb 24 20:01:25 timeless, hej hej Feb 24 20:01:33 andre__, how about enabling HTML mail just for your comments? Feb 24 20:01:45 what's the adv? Feb 24 20:01:50 Then you can toss in some 32pt red Impact. :P Feb 24 20:02:01 hell yeah! Feb 24 20:02:21 Or maybe Comic Sans Feb 24 20:02:33 Hi. I'm trying to install gtk-g-rays on diablo - unfortunately it requires libglade version 2.6.1 which does not seem to be available :( Feb 24 20:03:02 no, using Comic Sans will make my eyes vomit Feb 24 20:03:17 that's... an interesting concept Feb 24 20:03:20 Wingdings! Feb 24 20:03:47 *crinch* Feb 24 20:04:09 zommi, libglade 2.6.3 will be available in fremantle alpha which will be released soon(tm) Feb 24 20:04:15 see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3400 Feb 24 20:04:59 Don't they have a train dingbat font? Feb 24 20:05:01 Choo! Choo! Feb 24 20:05:42 andre__: Ok fine. But how is gtk-g-rays supposed to be installed now? Feb 24 20:05:54 *shrug* Feb 24 20:06:31 use an older version depending on an available libglade version? (yeah, sucks) Feb 24 20:08:23 the older versions unfortunately require tons of older hildon packages Feb 24 20:08:55 you can probably rebuild it. iirc, a newer libglade was uploaded to chinook extras and this messed up things. Feb 24 20:08:58 dependency hell... Feb 24 20:51:29 "fremantle alpha which will be released soon" should be typed as one word I think :) Feb 24 20:52:21 only if you can pronounce it as one word :p Feb 24 20:53:03 actually it can, but it makes you sound like an old drunk Feb 24 20:53:04 fawwbrs? Feb 24 20:53:32 or `that almost-release' Feb 24 20:53:42 I wonder why tm sign doesn't work :( Feb 24 20:53:46 ? Feb 24 20:53:47 it could be typed on the n8x0 with bluetooth keyboard "fremantle alphaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa which will be releasssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssed soon" Feb 24 20:54:03 © Feb 24 20:54:04 lcuk: actually, bt keyboard seems to work well nowadays Feb 24 20:54:10 lcuk: at least it does here Feb 24 20:54:13 depends on what you are doing Feb 24 20:54:13 copyright works, tm not :( Feb 24 20:54:29 qwerty12 da pimpâ„¢ Feb 24 20:54:32 yeah understood, it still glitches occasionally if im coding and transfering files and running system Feb 24 20:54:47 qwerty12_N800: do you use alt+#? Feb 24 20:54:56 qwerty12_N800: alt+2122 Feb 24 20:55:09 wazd: I use the n800's on screen keyboard :) Feb 24 20:55:21 qwerty12_N800: ah, damn cheaters :) Feb 24 20:56:04 character map tells you afaik... also num lock has to be off if you use the keypad iirc Feb 24 20:56:13 lcuk: that's kernel scheduler fail Feb 24 20:56:22 update kernel and it will go away Feb 24 20:56:27 that is: use mer Feb 24 20:56:34 last time i updated kernel my code went away Feb 24 20:56:48 ? Feb 24 20:56:49 it scared me and ive not reflashed or fucked with anything since Feb 24 20:57:08 at the summit, jott put rotation on tablet, and he also put the fast mmc patch Feb 24 20:57:09 AStorm: mer still uses 2.6.21 for N8x0 currently Feb 24 20:57:16 it made liqbase vanish Feb 24 20:57:19 i was mortified Feb 24 20:57:26 but it's updatable, because it's ready for new wifi driver Feb 24 20:57:40 lcuk: never had such a problem Feb 24 20:57:47 lcuk: you don't have off-device backups? Feb 24 20:57:51 you probably forgot to include some jffs2 compression method Feb 24 20:58:10 aquatix, of course i did, but i was at the summit with the only "backup" being the device itself Feb 24 20:58:16 lcuk: fun :/ Feb 24 20:58:28 timeless, your new strings make a lot of menus very thin. :P Feb 24 20:58:32 yeah, jott cured it though :) Feb 24 20:58:32 * qwerty12_N800 uses his 2.6.21 "uber kernel" (all the patches I could find) fine Feb 24 20:58:52 yeah i will stick to my slow and stead generic kernel :) Feb 24 20:58:59 bbl Feb 24 20:59:08 (reinstalling system due to fs failure) Feb 24 20:59:12 ah, right Feb 24 20:59:18 AStorm: good luck Feb 24 20:59:26 do you know of some tool to test disk barrier support? Feb 24 20:59:47 when people are coding, do you notice what your cycle time is between test phases? Feb 24 20:59:47 because I'm not sure if it was that + write cache, or the experimental fs Feb 24 21:00:04 lcuk: hmm? Feb 24 21:00:25 ie, i run the app, identify the problem, code it, compile, run, notice problem, tweak it etc Feb 24 21:00:31 it depends on the phase of development Feb 24 21:00:32 the adjustment cycles Feb 24 21:00:49 and whether I'm coding in Python, C, C++ or other language Feb 24 21:01:06 C takes many more cycles thanks to malloc and no OOP Feb 24 21:01:07 ;P Feb 24 21:01:15 because liqbase has an idle timeout which shows a message on console every 1 0seconds, im getting used to how long it was idle before i have to stop and rerun it Feb 24 21:01:54 so i stop looking at liqbase and from that point on until i am ready to rerun i know how long its been :) on average its about 40 seconds Feb 24 21:02:21 this means you do trial-and-error coding Feb 24 21:02:24 bad. Feb 24 21:02:36 unless you're truly tweaking some minor feature Feb 24 21:03:48 tweaking and adjusting formulas and options and tryign variations usually Feb 24 21:04:36 can't write more variations at one time and have some switches? Feb 24 21:04:50 hey guys ... anyone have experience marshaling structs in dbus signals with dbus-glib? Feb 24 21:04:52 that's how usually I do it after some devel is done Feb 24 21:05:02 (no, not ifdef - runtime options) Feb 24 21:05:51 astorm, i can once i have the framework to allow that kind of stuff Feb 24 21:05:59 * lcuk hates #ifdef Feb 24 21:06:24 yeah, ifdef is suck Feb 24 21:23:53 is the keyboard on the n810 actually any good? Feb 24 21:24:11 it is usable Feb 24 21:24:15 the dpad is weak Feb 24 21:24:20 no Feb 24 21:24:24 ah Feb 24 21:24:28 thought so Feb 24 21:24:38 so no real improvement in usability over the n800 Feb 24 21:24:38 it's not meant for massive text entry ofc Feb 24 21:24:44 well yeah Feb 24 21:24:50 no, huge improvement Feb 24 21:24:53 but for typing urls and such Feb 24 21:24:54 you get more screen space Feb 24 21:25:01 hmm Feb 24 21:25:10 that, you can also do some light word processing Feb 24 21:25:17 good enough for irc too Feb 24 21:25:19 and IM Feb 24 21:25:30 hmm Feb 24 21:25:33 can write an email Feb 24 21:25:39 or you get a bluetooth one Feb 24 21:25:47 well you can do that on the 770/n800 Feb 24 21:25:50 yeah, but that's expensive and less portable Feb 24 21:25:54 hmm Feb 24 21:25:56 aladds: but not as convenient Feb 24 21:26:04 true Feb 24 21:26:07 also, eats more battery Feb 24 21:26:22 yeah - buy an 810 Feb 24 21:26:29 i'm tempted by a n810 Feb 24 21:26:37 i had (and broke :-$) and 770 Feb 24 21:26:41 get it, or save for half a year Feb 24 21:26:50 and get the next device in package with Fremantle Feb 24 21:27:03 is there another machine on the horizon then? Feb 24 21:27:06 (plus gprs modem) Feb 24 21:27:08 yeah Feb 24 21:27:10 (you see AStorm, he needs to see someone else be persuaded - play the game) Feb 24 21:27:11 hmmm Feb 24 21:27:28 lbt: hehe Feb 24 21:27:36 by then it might just be worth getting an openpandors though Feb 24 21:27:39 aladds: of course, it will be more expensive Feb 24 21:27:40 openpandora Feb 24 21:27:44 also, don't hunt for wimax Feb 24 21:27:52 no, openpandora sucks Feb 24 21:27:54 really. Feb 24 21:27:57 yeah wimax ones are 2x more Feb 24 21:28:00 really? Feb 24 21:28:01 it's not too portable Feb 24 21:28:09 hm Feb 24 21:28:17 and until mer gets ready, it has no decent distro Feb 24 21:28:24 ah Feb 24 21:28:32 AStorm: haven't used an openpandora - why does it suck? Feb 24 21:29:00 Pebby_: well, physical stuff Feb 24 21:29:02 mostly Feb 24 21:29:20 openpandora is a myth - lemme know when someone actually *gets one Feb 24 21:29:33 qwerty12_N800: we have some devel one Feb 24 21:29:43 I don't know how that working group on our uni got one Feb 24 21:29:45 GeneralAntilles: I think I found the crash problem - I was replaying events to a widget that had been deleted... Feb 24 21:29:51 must've been some underhanded stuff Feb 24 21:30:02 lbt, what purpose does the statusbar applet serve? Feb 24 21:30:08 Also, do you want a b.m.o product? Feb 24 21:30:22 "people on the internet" have gotten OpenPandoras, but I have yet to meet one ;) I wouldn't use it as a computer, though... the mini-emulator is the biggest appeal, and the n810 just can't do that, unfortunately Feb 24 21:30:28 btw, could someone fix pidgin "tray" icon? Feb 24 21:30:36 because when there's no window, it crashes matchbox Feb 24 21:30:41 the statusbar is a side effect of the 'notify' function - I'm trying to remove it :) Feb 24 21:30:47 b.m.o ? Feb 24 21:30:49 well for a mini emulator you could just get a gp2x thingy Feb 24 21:30:58 lbt, bugs.maemo.org Feb 24 21:31:16 aladds: I'm pretty sure the openpandora is just the next rendition of the gp2x thingy Feb 24 21:31:16 aladds: yes, but nokia's is more versatile Feb 24 21:31:17 yes Feb 24 21:31:30 and more powerful Feb 24 21:31:32 very true, but the gp2x is cheaper, and better for games Feb 24 21:31:40 yup, except it is mostly vaporware Feb 24 21:31:44 how do I get that? Feb 24 21:31:46 aladds: but it's not all about games Feb 24 21:31:50 of course Feb 24 21:31:52 otherwise we'd get gameboy ;P Feb 24 21:31:56 is it different to garage bugs? Feb 24 21:31:59 AStorm: sure, but the n810 isn't powerful enough to run many emulators, and the n810 doesn't have a good control mechanism, sadly - n800 is actually better off Feb 24 21:32:14 Pebby_: yeah Feb 24 21:32:20 that's why I'm waiting for the next one Feb 24 21:32:22 n810 runs mac os though? Feb 24 21:32:26 see what nokia will make of it Feb 24 21:32:29 that opens up lots of old games Feb 24 21:32:45 aladds: sadly, not enough cpu for most... Feb 24 21:32:49 ah Feb 24 21:32:53 shame Feb 24 21:32:56 also GA, I'm adding in a preferences dialog so you can tick the "2 column" option :) Feb 24 21:33:01 i knew it was useless on my 770 Feb 24 21:33:08 but i heard it had decent speed on the n810 Feb 24 21:33:17 Yeah, the emulators aren't the problem, it's the power of the device... was made to last 15 days while on and not in use, not play games ;) Feb 24 21:33:26 :P Feb 24 21:33:42 I'm always surprised mine's still on, half the time, haha Feb 24 21:33:50 i may hold off for now anyway, i do have an iPod Touch after all Feb 24 21:34:01 hmm Feb 24 21:34:11 yeah, I'd wait those few months Feb 24 21:34:20 although, the new device will likely be expensive, obviously Feb 24 21:34:28 If you have something that satisfies that niche, yeah, I'd wait too Feb 24 21:34:39 but at least n810 will take a major drop in price Feb 24 21:34:40 :) Feb 24 21:34:51 here's hoping Feb 24 21:34:56 the new one will have OMAP3 afaicr Feb 24 21:34:56 i got my 770 for £40 Feb 24 21:35:00 The N810's price has dropped. Feb 24 21:35:05 much more powerful CPU Feb 24 21:35:12 GeneralAntilles: it will drop more (on ebay) Feb 24 21:35:14 cheapest 810 now is about £170 Feb 24 21:35:18 Hardware details: http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-9edfb716df5e11ddac642b2e5199d2f3d2f3 Feb 24 21:35:18 as people will sell their old n810 Feb 24 21:36:01 brb Feb 24 21:36:34 AStorm: sell my n810? NEVER ;) Feb 24 21:36:42 at least the next one will be an actual phone Feb 24 21:36:47 I won't either Feb 24 21:36:50 *neither Feb 24 21:36:57 because I'll abuse it for a devel platform Feb 24 21:36:57 Er, phone? Feb 24 21:37:05 GeneralAntilles: gprs modem Feb 24 21:37:15 AStorm, HSPA != phone. Feb 24 21:37:16 AStorm: exactly... I bought my friend's old n800 so I could do stupid stuff to it without worrying Feb 24 21:37:27 we can do that in software Feb 24 21:37:36 GPRS modem == call support Feb 24 21:37:57 (at least on modern networks) Feb 24 21:38:14 I still have my hopes for the software, not the hardware... I know they can advance the hardware, but it remains to be seen if I will be really excited about it for the hardware Feb 24 21:38:18 the trick will be obviously compressing that audio Feb 24 21:38:32 Pebby_: fremantle will be a moderate upgrade Feb 24 21:38:47 AStorm: =/ Feb 24 21:39:00 but really a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff is improved Feb 24 21:39:16 and well, you can try mer now Feb 24 21:39:51 AStorm: Ah well... I'm waiting for the usability and interface fixes. It's too finger/pen/finger/pen right now =/ Will mer install on an n800 or does it need an n810? Feb 24 21:40:09 I think it should work on n800 Feb 24 21:40:28 it does right now Feb 24 21:40:40 UI fixes aren't a priority I think... Feb 24 21:40:55 there's no real difference between the n800 and n810 Feb 24 21:40:57 most of that is possible to improve with a better gtk theme Feb 24 21:41:07 so it'd be a real challenge to make something that only worked on one Feb 24 21:41:10 except the keyboard and different wifi firmware, yeah Feb 24 21:41:22 as mer wants to be portable, it wasn't up to that challenge Feb 24 21:41:25 and GPS chip (sucky though anyway) vs radio Feb 24 21:41:41 timeless, quite easy unfortunately lack of a hard keyboard is troublesome Feb 24 21:41:45 the problem is lack of real on-screen keyboard Feb 24 21:41:51 yeah Feb 24 21:41:54 Ahh, unfortunate... if there's one thing I'd fix on the n810, it's the UI. Even if it's just a GTK theme, they could learn a lesson from some other 'touch' devices. Feb 24 21:41:56 you get to use xvkb Feb 24 21:42:10 you have to use xvkb Feb 24 21:42:10 Pebby_: do it then! we'll be grateful Feb 24 21:42:17 well... it's possible to make it hard to use Feb 24 21:42:28 but it isn't as easy to make it not install Feb 24 21:42:30 AStorm: I tried tweaking it at one point, at least made the scroll bars bigger! Feb 24 21:42:34 note the distinction :) Feb 24 21:42:50 Pebby_: yeah, you can do the same with menus (font) and with text boxes Feb 24 21:42:55 that should fix most problems Feb 24 21:43:04 fwiw, i haven't seen many osk's for linux that didn't suck Feb 24 21:43:15 which isn't to say i'm going to go out of my way to defend the nokia osk's Feb 24 21:43:20 timeless: we get to write one Feb 24 21:43:36 see, maybe I'll write my own. Feb 24 21:43:43 well, please talk to me Feb 24 21:43:45 as hildon-im is fairly broken now and limited Feb 24 21:43:48 i'll gladly give you feedback Feb 24 21:43:55 good Feb 24 21:44:02 it will do handwriting first and foremost Feb 24 21:44:14 * lcuk smiles Feb 24 21:44:15 but once I get X events right, osk is certainly simple Feb 24 21:44:17 :> Feb 24 21:44:42 the problem is show-hide operation Feb 24 21:44:53 hildon has a hack in GTK and Qt to do that Feb 24 21:44:58 AStorm: Yeah, I played with it a lot for a while... I tried just making a simple 'app launcher' that was a big grid of ugly buttons, and that was actually pretty nice. Unfortunately, one of my early problems trying to do stuff on the n810 (and why I gave up) was the scratchbox install + debian packaging. I literally could not make debian packages for the n810, no one could help me, and I just gave up =/ Feb 24 21:45:10 Pebby_: there is one already Feb 24 21:45:12 Personal Launcher Feb 24 21:45:19 :) Feb 24 21:45:29 * AStorm is using that, work nicely Feb 24 21:45:50 yeah, because debian is PITA wrt packages Feb 24 21:46:01 same problem for me Feb 24 21:46:12 AStorm: I haven't tried that yet (is it new? didn't see it on garage when I was playing with it), but I'd really like to be able to cross-compile and package, then send it to the n810 easily. More importantly, get answers about why following the tutorial on how to make .debs produces bad results =/ Feb 24 21:46:37 Pebby_: it's in the garage, yeah Feb 24 21:46:50 at least extras repo, if not the garage Feb 24 21:47:09 yeah, need someone well-versed in that to write a real howto Feb 24 21:47:10 Ahh, cool... I'll check it out. I should upgrade to Diablo at some point if they're not updating the old repos Feb 24 21:47:21 still, mer is using Ubuntu as base Feb 24 21:47:27 so packaging should be simpler there Feb 24 21:47:29 funny that, I'd want smaller scroll bars :-) Feb 24 21:47:41 Or reliable tap-and-drag scrolling, and no scrollbars at all Feb 24 21:47:45 and kinetic scrolling? Feb 24 21:47:52 ShadowJK: or decent press-and-drag scrolling Feb 24 21:47:55 yeah, we could use kinetic scrolling in GTK Feb 24 21:48:07 AStorm: usw Qt :) Feb 24 21:48:14 yeah Feb 24 21:48:21 If this kinetic scrolling thing is what Tear does, I don't like it. Feb 24 21:48:22 except Qt has none either Feb 24 21:48:27 I tried to make a smooth scrolling extension for firefox work on the n810 but it was a horrible failure, haha Feb 24 21:48:29 so we get to add it Feb 24 21:48:33 ShadowJK: what canola does Feb 24 21:48:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPQ1VlyMPYU Feb 24 21:48:36 or iPawn Feb 24 21:48:52 my "Qt Finger Scrolling and Gestures" Feb 24 21:48:52 Pebby_: n810 is too slow for that many screen updates Feb 24 21:49:01 hmm Feb 24 21:49:05 :) Feb 24 21:49:13 AStorm: definitely, even with the current finger-scrolling the screen doesn't keep up most of the time Feb 24 21:49:14 * lcuk doesnt find the n8x0 too slow Feb 24 21:49:14 lbt: does it work for all Qt apps? Feb 24 21:49:18 pebby: have you tried liqbase? Feb 24 21:49:21 or rather, most? Feb 24 21:49:42 Pebby_: that's because cpu is slow and microb could use more optimizations Feb 24 21:49:47 AStorm: my approach requires a code change Feb 24 21:49:48 AStorm: here's my question: can i change the mapping of the finger scroll to scroll 3x my finger movement? That was my real problem - I don't care about speed Feb 24 21:49:53 errr update speed Feb 24 21:49:55 (e.g. firefox 3.2pre engine) Feb 24 21:50:03 I just don't want to rub through the damn screen trying to scroll a long page Feb 24 21:50:10 Pebby_: uh, I don't think so Feb 24 21:50:11 pebby: so... Feb 24 21:50:16 Pebby_, heh, i once tried that, giving different scroll speed depending upon x location Feb 24 21:50:19 for an n800 you can change the arrow keys to be pagedown Feb 24 21:50:19 timeless: no, what's liqbase? Feb 24 21:50:21 I have issues where tap-and-hold is identified as tap, or hold-and-drag is identified as multiple taps :P This kinetic thing in tear just randomly sends the page scrolling at lightspeed, and then it can't keep up rendering that much new stuff Feb 24 21:50:22 or something else Feb 24 21:50:22 its a strange effect, but it works well Feb 24 21:50:34 what about coasting like on touchpads? Feb 24 21:50:35 Pebby_, start here, this is latest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY Feb 24 21:50:38 that's certainly nice Feb 24 21:50:51 or faster scroll by using two fingers - pseudomultitouch Feb 24 21:50:56 there is a released version in extras, and there is a later version (as glanced at in the video) in svn Feb 24 21:51:01 these should be easy Feb 24 21:51:05 lcuk: ^ Feb 24 21:51:09 AStorm: the scrolly thing on the right side of touchpads? Or a wheel on the side ;) I like wheels, haha... kind of dorky, I guess Feb 24 21:51:16 no no Feb 24 21:51:25 I mean, using two fingers, like that synaptics driver option Feb 24 21:51:36 i'm pretty sure you can't get the rate for drags in the browser changed Feb 24 21:51:37 and coasting when you scroll to the end of surface Feb 24 21:51:53 yeah, because microb has it hardcoded Feb 24 21:51:53 lcuk: ahh, that's pretty cool... I see people have been working on things while I've been away, haha. That looks really promising Feb 24 21:51:59 but again, it should be possible to alter how the arrow keys work Feb 24 21:52:13 timeless: ctrl+arrow is faster Feb 24 21:52:17 or was it shift+arrow Feb 24 21:52:19 :) Feb 24 21:52:22 yes pebby_, it does :) the currently released liqbase has fullscreen kinetic scrolling and is the smoothest ui around :) Feb 24 21:52:25 AStorm: I like that idea - kinetic when you get to the edge of the screen... Feb 24 21:52:40 yeah and I know why Feb 24 21:52:43 you just need kinetic if you swipe Feb 24 21:52:46 I figured it out! Feb 24 21:52:46 lbt: actually, more like locked Feb 24 21:52:51 not kinetic Feb 24 21:52:52 figured what out lbt?> Feb 24 21:52:52 all the bacon makes it greasy ; Feb 24 21:52:54 coasting :) Feb 24 21:52:56 lcuk: The last thing I did on my n810 was try installing raster's illume UI (enlightenment-based gui they're using for openmoko, I think?) Feb 24 21:52:56 heh Feb 24 21:53:08 it's lubricated inside ! Feb 24 21:53:15 lbt: lol Feb 24 21:53:31 yeah, the screen does take grease far too well Feb 24 21:53:32 lbt: grease release button? Feb 24 21:53:34 thats a good explanation: liqbase - sliding on bacon fat Feb 24 21:53:38 and the surface is a bit flimsy Feb 24 21:54:00 I managed to get something lodged in it... some grain of sand or sth Feb 24 21:54:04 annoying as hell Feb 24 21:54:13 even as careful as I were Feb 24 21:54:27 * lcuk sometimes cleans his screen and stylus with wd40 Feb 24 21:54:34 heh Feb 24 21:54:43 and remove antireflex layer? Feb 24 21:54:46 bad idea Feb 24 21:54:52 my screen is clean... usually Feb 24 21:54:52 lcuk: there's an idea for my phone Feb 24 21:54:56 screen is already dead Feb 24 21:54:59 Kevin Bacon. Feb 24 21:55:00 but this slight damage is annoying Feb 24 21:55:07 lcuk: hahah Feb 24 21:55:08 This industrial touchscreen at work is awesome. The screen has 800x400 resolution or something thereabouts. The touchscreen has about 64x64 resolution, and you can see the individual touchpixels because there's a small gap between them :) Feb 24 21:55:19 ShadowJK: hehehe Feb 24 21:55:23 failscreen Feb 24 21:55:36 btw, those Tomtom screens are excellent Feb 24 21:55:42 Yeah well, the UI is designed accordingly, so it works nicely Feb 24 21:55:45 very durable, fairly high resolution too Feb 24 21:55:58 future project; mer on tomtom? Feb 24 21:56:11 ShadowJK: no, tomtom app on n8x0 Feb 24 21:56:12 ;P Feb 24 21:56:19 I should get that started Feb 24 21:56:37 roope, how many steps away from him are you Feb 24 21:56:38 tomtom software does some scary stuff :-) Feb 24 21:56:48 liqbase on tomtom would be cool Feb 24 21:56:49 ShadowJK: nah, just framebuffer writes Feb 24 21:56:58 except tomtom devices are far slower Feb 24 21:57:06 I suspect slower than 770 Feb 24 21:57:07 like that bothers me Feb 24 21:57:12 it will Feb 24 21:57:16 lower the res and carry on regardless Feb 24 21:57:27 liqbase is happy no matter what its got Feb 24 21:57:29 AStorm, they actually did this thing where they cut power 50 times in a row during a "critial" stage of boot or upgrade, with many different filesystems :-) Feb 24 21:57:33 hello everybody Feb 24 21:57:38 meh, you can't do 800x480 at these Feb 24 21:57:41 only 640x480 Feb 24 21:57:47 or something like it Feb 24 21:57:55 ShadowJK: heh Feb 24 21:58:01 their flashing software is junk, yeah Feb 24 21:58:19 the filesystem is jffs2, really Feb 24 21:58:31 or was it ext2... Feb 24 21:58:35 how to remove contacts menu from left toolbar? Feb 24 21:58:47 I think jffs2. Feb 24 21:58:52 the stuff on SD card is vfat with an image file in ext2, i think Feb 24 21:58:54 sashka_n800: use the control panel :) Feb 24 21:59:01 that was the part they were testing for blowing up Feb 24 21:59:14 knowing user tendency to randomly eject cards at inappropriate times :) Feb 24 21:59:24 probably. Feb 24 21:59:37 still, tomtom only uses fb and serial port Feb 24 21:59:44 ah, and touchscreen device Feb 24 21:59:49 so, this is all possible to emulate Feb 24 21:59:55 these are Linux apis too. Feb 24 22:00:01 and bluetooth for internet connectivity Feb 24 22:00:03 and we even have code examples of the sdk Feb 24 22:00:21 they run Linux I believe Feb 24 22:01:04 ShadowJK: yes Feb 24 22:01:15 I think it's some 2.4 Feb 24 22:01:29 AStorm: if the zaurus can run it in demo mode, i have faith in your efforts for the n8x0 ;P Feb 24 22:01:30 it's armv4 Feb 24 22:01:45 hm, they include MPlayer in their firmware? wtf :) Feb 24 22:01:51 qwerty12_N800: uh, should be easy once I get framebuffer simulation Feb 24 22:01:53 AStorm, in control panel i can move contacts up and down but can't remove it Feb 24 22:01:54 the other stuff is simple Feb 24 22:02:07 sashka_n800: you need something to replace it with :> Feb 24 22:02:10 e.g. personal menu Feb 24 22:02:14 you cannot remove an icon Feb 24 22:02:32 cyas later evil people Feb 24 22:02:36 * lcuk was meant to be codin Feb 24 22:02:42 ShadowJK: yeah, they do Feb 24 22:02:42 ShadowJK: wish nokia had followed their lead... only thing the built in media player does better is wmv (barely)... Feb 24 22:02:49 something to play the video Feb 24 22:02:57 "TomTom GO uses the 2.6.13 and 2.6.23.17 versions of the Linux kernel, with modifications by TomTom, which provide drivers for the specific TomTom GO hardware. " Feb 24 22:02:57 and audio Feb 24 22:03:01 http://www.tomtom.com/page.php?Page=gpl Feb 24 22:03:02 ah, right Feb 24 22:03:03 2.6.x Feb 24 22:03:06 my bad Feb 24 22:03:08 :) Feb 24 22:03:17 I don't know if they build statically or not Feb 24 22:03:29 if they don't, then it's LD_PRELOAD and we're all set Feb 24 22:03:34 ok, i understand, going to sleep, bye Feb 24 22:03:52 then need to write a GTK emulator of linux framebuffer ;P Feb 24 22:04:09 AStorm: gtk has a directfb backend Feb 24 22:04:17 backend doesn't matter Feb 24 22:04:29 and we want X or Xv as a backend Feb 24 22:04:30 wanna do LD_PRELOAD trickery to emulate fb Feb 24 22:04:35 because that's what maemo has Feb 24 22:04:52 oh, you want the opposite Feb 24 22:05:04 yeah Feb 24 22:05:05 fb device emulation Feb 24 22:05:27 Actually for my gps needs I'd rather have Nokia Maps running on N810 than tomtom running on N810, but that'd be a gigantic task :) Feb 24 22:05:32 ShadowJK: yeah, just take over /dev/fb*, /dev/ts* and /dev/ttyS* Feb 24 22:05:46 Nokia Maps would work too Feb 24 22:05:52 it also uses FB I guess Feb 24 22:05:55 *fb Feb 24 22:06:03 Biggest issue is that it's symbian Feb 24 22:06:05 and both tomtom and nokia use standard NMEA GPS Feb 24 22:06:10 ah, bummer Feb 24 22:06:22 why does nokia cling to that failure os Feb 24 22:06:28 nokia's navigation devices use ce... Feb 24 22:07:01 Yeah but the cellphones usually come with Nokia Maps or Wayfinder Feb 24 22:07:28 astorm: which os should they then use? Feb 24 22:07:36 maemo :) Feb 24 22:07:40 ShadowJK: wayfinder we already have Feb 24 22:07:48 roope: Linux of course. Maemo is workable. Feb 24 22:08:03 Yeah, but Nokia Maps > Wayfinder. Atleast for my part of the world.. Feb 24 22:08:18 well, tomtom > nokia maps > wayfinder for here Feb 24 22:08:30 but the most powerful one is "Automapa" ;P Feb 24 22:08:33 Nokia Maps is improving steadily. 3.0 is better than the previous ones. Feb 24 22:08:45 I should extend maemo mapper to support vector maps Feb 24 22:08:55 maybe by borrowing code from osm2go Feb 24 22:09:13 roope: the problem is maps themselves Feb 24 22:09:23 central/eastern europe sucks. Feb 24 22:09:45 astorm: blame Navteq then. Feb 24 22:09:47 It's their maps. Feb 24 22:09:50 yeah. Feb 24 22:09:59 these are at least better than wayfinder's Feb 24 22:10:09 tomtom has good ones, but expensive Feb 24 22:10:14 My issue with tomtom is that it is super-allergic towards dirt roads. Nokia maps on the other hand, when faced with the choice of 400 metres of asphalt and 1 turn, vs 300 metres of dirt road and 3 turns, will happily suggest the dirt road alternative even when you've asked for fastest route :) Feb 24 22:10:16 and local produce Automapa has the best Feb 24 22:10:30 ShadowJK: that's a bug IMO Feb 24 22:10:38 dirt roads are almost always a bad choice Feb 24 22:11:01 tomtom avoids them by design Feb 24 22:11:03 astorm: Finns love the dirt roads. :) They drive like Ari Vatanen. Feb 24 22:11:08 hahaha Feb 24 22:11:20 try to drive a truck through one Feb 24 22:11:28 we recently had some idiot drive into a lake Feb 24 22:11:40 thanks to being an idiot and following GPS blindly Feb 24 22:11:51 tomtom when faced with 10 km of dirt road vs 30km of asphalt, will take the longer 30km asphalt. In reality the dirt road is only marginally slower than 10km of that asphalt road Feb 24 22:12:00 thought the truck is a submarine or sth Feb 24 22:12:10 wtf Feb 24 22:12:12 ShadowJK: corner case Feb 24 22:12:22 qwerty12_N800: yes, stupid Feb 24 22:12:29 and the road was marked as a dead end too Feb 24 22:12:57 the story hit the news - that was some 13ton truck Feb 24 22:13:00 Winter in finland, all roads become equal with regard to the surface. It's either ice or snow :) Feb 24 22:13:10 he took a friggin dirt road into woods... Feb 24 22:13:18 then drove into a lake... Feb 24 22:13:28 haha Feb 24 22:14:25 the fun part is that the actual destination has many main roads and even highways to it Feb 24 22:15:06 heck, I could chart a route in 10s Feb 24 22:16:13 the name of GPS system he used was not disclosed. Feb 24 22:16:23 bad publicity and all Feb 24 22:16:44 but they did mention he had old maps Feb 24 22:17:38 btw, I'd be more happy if we could reverse-engineer tomtom map format Feb 24 22:17:43 * qwerty12_N800 's dad uses a old ass garmin nuvi with old maps. it's not worth downloading new ones because it sucks so badly... Feb 24 22:17:46 but I suspect they'd take offense and sue to hell Feb 24 22:18:10 (even though technically the decryption key would be required) Feb 24 22:20:23 * RST38h moos Feb 24 22:20:52 baa RST38h Feb 24 22:20:59 meow! Feb 24 22:21:48 ok, time for that reboot... bbl Feb 24 22:24:58 run apt-get moo ;) Feb 24 22:29:51 * b-man resumes updating the Ubuntu-N8X0 guide to include neatojones's 'E17 for ubuntu-n8x0' port Feb 24 22:36:19 oooh http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9634061300.html Feb 24 22:43:12 lbt: I was just reading about that... I'm going to plug in 10 and distcc everything in my house, wheeee! Feb 24 22:46:29 it does sound interesting... :) Feb 24 22:51:38 lbt, the Category dropdown in the Add item dialog seems a little funky. Feb 24 22:52:13 0.5.1 ? Feb 24 22:52:29 0.5 Feb 24 22:52:36 oh wait, that may not be there yet Feb 24 22:53:06 I added a 'tick' gesture to the dialog box and forgot to remove it Feb 24 22:53:12 I think that may explain it Feb 24 22:53:23 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/shopper_0.5.1/ Feb 24 22:53:34 it should be in extras-devel RSN Feb 24 22:53:51 I see it on the builder list. Feb 24 22:54:31 how is it otherwise? still a bit small for my taste Feb 24 22:55:28 Not fingerable enough for my tastes. Feb 24 22:55:55 any suggestions? Feb 24 22:56:08 I was thinking about it Feb 24 22:56:11 and, no, not really. Feb 24 22:56:27 I might poke around in PS at some point. Feb 24 22:56:34 Or maybe we should get wazd to do it. :P Feb 24 22:57:02 I'm open to ideas... Feb 24 22:57:20 I've not spent much time on the UI though - all defaults Feb 24 22:57:36 it's where I was going next Feb 24 23:00:56 lbt, david at dgreaves dot com is good for bugzilla? Feb 24 23:01:07 the sheevaplug would make a great server for a squeezebox... Feb 24 23:01:11 that's fine Feb 24 23:01:15 Hi, milhouse. Feb 24 23:01:22 hi general Feb 24 23:02:22 andre__, ping? Feb 24 23:02:47 GeneralAntilles, pong Feb 24 23:03:07 andre__, bugzilla is bitching about general@shopper.garage.bugs not existing. Feb 24 23:03:47 but what's the beginning of the story? :) Feb 24 23:04:04 Me swinging around a large baseball bat in bugzilla. :P Feb 24 23:04:11 Creating a new product for lbt's Shopper Feb 24 23:04:19 Trying to add a General component. Feb 24 23:04:29 WAIT! not the italian porcelain!!! :-P Feb 24 23:04:48 i think that is the product that timeless added when bz died Feb 24 23:04:50 * GeneralAntilles finds a particular pile on the floor and procedes to hit it again Office Space-style. Feb 24 23:04:53 hence it wasn't finished Feb 24 23:05:42 Well, in general, is there another step that needs to be taken to create QA contacts? Feb 24 23:07:04 you have to create a virtual user, yupp Feb 24 23:07:07 just did that Feb 24 23:07:14 and also added a "General" component Feb 24 23:07:23 feel free to reset the default assignee Feb 24 23:07:49 OK, cool. Feb 24 23:07:57 lbt, do you want any more specific components? Feb 24 23:08:16 ah. uh. cool. this is live and a maintainer really exists. :-P Feb 24 23:08:21 don't think so - shopper is fine Feb 24 23:08:33 Is there a website? Feb 24 23:08:44 shopper.garage... Feb 24 23:09:00 So, no, not really. Feb 24 23:09:00 it's a tad sparse Feb 24 23:09:08 well, RSN Feb 24 23:09:15 bug #1 - no website Feb 24 23:09:25 andre__, website component, too? Feb 24 23:09:33 Also: for the future, can I create these virtual users? Feb 24 23:10:09 GeneralAntilles, if you can create a website component or whatcha mean? Feb 24 23:10:15 same qa contact i'd say Feb 24 23:10:39 creating virtual users: don't know, let me look into the permissions tomorrow Feb 24 23:10:51 Well, Maemo Mapper, for instance, is www@maemo-mapper.garage.bugs Feb 24 23:11:01 versus general@maemo-mapper.garage.bugs for General Feb 24 23:11:09 ah Feb 24 23:11:10 hmm - andre__ I would like my garage page to get links to the new package I uploaded - so https://garage.maemo.org/projects/shopper/ should know that 0.5 is there (and 0.5.1 in a few minutes) Feb 24 23:11:38 lbt, uh, i'm only into bugzilla Feb 24 23:11:48 ok :) Feb 24 23:11:49 GeneralAntilles, if you want one I can quickly create one :) Feb 24 23:11:59 just tell me the name of it Feb 24 23:12:05 Website Feb 24 23:12:09 (yupp, i'm going to look at permissions tomorrow) Feb 24 23:12:25 * lbt goes back to coding Feb 24 23:12:29 andre__, something more interesting you want to be doing at 1 AM? :P Feb 24 23:12:48 well, club is open until 4AM, no need for hurry ;-) Feb 24 23:12:56 lol Feb 24 23:12:58 GeneralAntilles, can you create the component or are you also missing permissions? Feb 24 23:13:05 I can create components Feb 24 23:13:09 Just not their QA contacts Feb 24 23:13:13 Or maybe I can Feb 24 23:13:15 But I dunno how. Feb 24 23:14:02 GeneralAntilles, Edit: Users ? Feb 24 23:14:31 www@shopper.garage.bugs created Feb 24 23:14:52 does https://bugs.maemo.org/editusers.cgi work for you? Feb 24 23:14:55 andre__, I can search for existing accounts Feb 24 23:15:01 But I dunno if I can create anything Feb 24 23:15:23 ah, so there's no "You can also add a new user." on that page for you? ok Feb 24 23:15:31 Which is related to: And you can turn on or off the following bits for other users: I guess. Feb 24 23:15:54 yupp, guess so too Feb 24 23:16:54 lol . . . Gatorade is ripping off The Holy Grail in their new ads. Feb 24 23:18:10 holy shit Feb 24 23:18:18 i guess document fed scanners are just all expensive huh? Feb 25 00:13:30 night all Feb 25 01:14:31 is there a graphical partiton manager for maemo? Feb 25 01:15:14 probably no Feb 25 01:36:11 AndrewFBlack, none that I know of. Feb 25 01:36:22 I wish somebody would put together a wizard or something for SD booting, though. . . . Feb 25 01:42:06 hi Feb 25 01:42:13 how do i enter a pipe on the n810? Feb 25 01:42:41 tried via the iconbar in the terminal, but hmm no Feb 25 01:50:50 GeneralAntilles I wish people would do alot :) Feb 25 01:59:04 riot, press the Chr Feb 25 01:59:16 and use the arrows on the side Feb 25 02:14:43 hm Feb 25 02:14:50 what can i use to allow windows to use an ext3 partition? Feb 25 02:15:00 i have to hook up an external drive that is ext3 Feb 25 02:16:01 http://www.fs-driver.org/ Feb 25 02:50:03 Anybody mind stress testing athf-splash and maemoorg-splash? Feb 25 02:50:23 I think all the bugs are out, but I want to make sure before I promote them. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 25 02:59:57 2009