**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 08 02:59:57 2009 Mar 08 03:09:12 damn debian kicks ass :) Mar 08 03:09:26 i'm really liking it now heh Mar 08 03:15:14 * b-man_ubuntu is chatting from ubuntu on his N800 atm :) Mar 08 03:16:41 b-man_ubuntu, keyboard? Mar 08 03:17:26 xkbd :) Mar 08 03:18:14 i'm also running google-gadgets :D Mar 08 03:41:02 hello Mar 08 03:41:25 qwerty12: around? Mar 08 03:48:47 ~seen qwerty12 Mar 08 03:49:17 qwerty12 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11h 10m 49s ago, saying: 'np'. Mar 08 03:49:45 ~seen qwerty12_N800 Mar 08 03:49:46 qwerty12_n800 is currently on #maemo (7h 1m 54s). Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 6h 25m 12s, last said: 'ah'. Mar 08 03:49:58 does anyone know if qwerty12's conky deb on maemobox is fully working? Mar 08 03:50:06 e.g. has anyone tried it? Mar 08 03:50:48 it worked for me Mar 08 03:51:05 that's good, thanks Mar 08 03:51:49 b-man_ubuntu: did you come to any conclusions about why the Ubuntu ts calibration was off for me? Mar 08 03:52:04 I can't really give it another try until after exams (Friday) Mar 08 03:53:14 i think it is the tslib package, when i installed it i had the same problem Mar 08 03:53:29 the tslib package from where? Mar 08 03:54:02 ubuntu-n8x0 repo Mar 08 03:54:07 okay Mar 08 03:54:24 I'm looking forward to checking it out again - I might give neatojones' E17 packages a spin Mar 08 03:54:26 i'd just remove it ;) Mar 08 03:54:41 :) Mar 08 03:54:58 I'm not normally a fan of E17, but Illume looks like it's worth trying Mar 08 03:55:22 the sliding "shelves' (or whatever they're called) reminded me of an MID mockup I saw a while back Mar 08 03:55:54 it was a widescreen form factor, but probably half again as wide as the N8x0, and it has a split keyboard on the two sides Mar 08 03:55:54 it looks really awsome :D Mar 08 03:56:00 that presumably slid out when you tapped something Mar 08 03:56:06 (on-screen kbd, that is) Mar 08 03:56:51 I'm still waiting for KDE MID edition :P Mar 08 03:57:19 * jaem checks commit history on plasma-mid Mar 08 03:57:37 plasma-mid? Mar 08 03:57:53 it's a version of plasma for MIDs, not surprisingly Mar 08 03:58:04 :) Mar 08 03:58:59 hmm... some recent work, but not much Mar 08 03:59:00 :( Mar 08 03:59:34 btw, i'm going to remove that tslib dependence from tablet-x to fix that touchscreen problem Mar 08 03:59:40 okay, thanks Mar 08 04:00:51 * b-man_ubuntu doesn't even know why he put that in there in the first place XD Mar 08 04:01:29 and the performance? Was that just me? Mar 08 04:01:32 it was a late night :) Mar 08 04:01:50 ah yes... I remember when I was first learning Linux, I was doing stuff late at night... Mar 08 04:02:00 lol Mar 08 04:02:02 ...and moved /usr/* to a subdirectory of /usr >_< Mar 08 04:02:12 ohh Mar 08 04:02:30 the nice thing about Linux, though, is that you can trash your system, and still often fix it Mar 08 04:02:45 indeed :) Mar 08 04:02:54 sometimes, if I'm uninstalling my desktop, I won't even bother to drop to runlevel 3 - just because I can Mar 08 04:03:35 I heard a story about some guys with a VAX back in the day, who blammoed /etc and most of /bin on a box that they couldn't take down to fix Mar 08 04:03:43 and they managed to set it right :D Mar 08 04:04:10 hehe Mar 08 04:05:40 that's interesting :) Mar 08 04:06:25 ah - here we go: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/recovery.html Mar 08 04:09:15 lol Mar 08 04:10:40 wow Mar 08 04:22:18 Heheh. Mar 08 04:22:36 Closest thing I've ever done was burned busybox on an N800. Mar 08 04:22:41 ouch Mar 08 04:22:44 was that fun? Mar 08 04:22:53 Was... interesting. Mar 08 04:23:06 I was surprised that I actually succeeded. Mar 08 04:23:18 Of course, having another machine handy helps. Mar 08 04:23:23 yeah, definitely Mar 08 04:23:31 * jaem needs to pick up another 8GB microSD card Mar 08 04:27:26 * b-man_ubuntu has actually deleted /proc once - was not a nice site :P Mar 08 04:28:08 i allmost ruined my tablet Mar 08 04:30:25 oh yay - my BT dongle does still work Mar 08 04:30:31 I thought it was fried Mar 08 04:30:50 my uni always has booths selling stuff one of the main buildings Mar 08 04:31:12 and I think there must be a rule that you have to sell really sketchy merchandise to be allowed in there :P Mar 08 04:31:24 my BT dongle has a MAC of 00:00:00:00:00:00 >_< Mar 08 04:31:29 lol Mar 08 04:31:34 lol Mar 08 04:31:47 jaem, linux? Mar 08 04:31:51 heh Mar 08 04:32:17 also, the build style indicates that it was likely made by the same company that made one of my flash drives... the one that now is a PCB wrapped in duct tape >_< Mar 08 04:32:36 ShadowJK: what about it? Mar 08 04:32:41 If linux, "hciconfig hci0 version", and paste the Manufacturer line :) Mar 08 04:32:43 ooh Mar 08 04:32:45 oh right Mar 08 04:33:00 I wasn't sure what you were getting at Mar 08 04:33:12 which is the manufacturer of the radio, not the guys who soldered it to a pcb and slapped plastic around it :) Mar 08 04:33:19 but interesting nonetheless Mar 08 04:33:20 yeah, I know Mar 08 04:33:43 Can't read version info hci0: Connection timed out (110) Mar 08 04:33:47 lol Mar 08 04:33:51 * jaem facepalms Mar 08 04:34:00 unplug, replug :-) Mar 08 04:34:01 lol Mar 08 04:34:11 still doing it Mar 08 04:34:16 not that I'm surprised Mar 08 04:34:24 the dongle had a RED bluetooth logo on the box Mar 08 04:34:49 unplug, restart hcid/bluetoothd/bluez, whatever it's called in your distro, replug Mar 08 04:35:39 oh there we go Mar 08 04:35:46 my mistake (wasn't thinking) Mar 08 04:35:54 the MAC is actually 11:11:11:11:11:11 Mar 08 04:36:00 that's what I meant to say Mar 08 04:36:05 I bet it's ISSC Mar 08 04:36:14 Manufacturer: CONWISE Technology Corporation Ltd (66) Mar 08 04:36:30 I've never had the misfortune of encountering that before :) Mar 08 04:36:35 hehe Mar 08 04:36:54 66? That means there are atleast 65 manufacturers producing utter crap bluetooth chips :-( Mar 08 04:37:18 I took a gamble, since I wanted one right then, and I didn't know of anything else I could get that day that could be guaranteed to work with Linux Mar 08 04:37:35 the guy at the booth said he'd be back the next day, if I wanted to return it Mar 08 04:37:53 it was some weeks later that I found out that they always say that, usually when they won't be back for weeks. Mar 08 04:38:02 :) Mar 08 04:38:18 I think they all work in Linux Mar 08 04:38:23 Also, if you look at something, and then ask if they'll be back tomorrow after you've thought about it, they insist that it's the last day they'll be there Mar 08 04:38:27 as I said... sketchy Mar 08 04:38:52 When did sketchy stop meaning 'vague' and become 'of ill repute'? Mar 08 04:39:10 not sure :P Mar 08 04:39:20 bogus, dude Mar 08 04:39:29 I have 4 bluetooth dongles... I was surprised the first time I tried to use one with windows XP. Only one of them worked :) Mar 08 04:39:41 nice Mar 08 04:39:53 ShadowJK: know anything about RFCOMM? Mar 08 04:40:01 2 wasn't recognized, 1 kinda worked, but connections always broke after 5 seconds Mar 08 04:40:18 I have a setup with BlueZ 3.x Mar 08 04:41:02 in BlueZ 4.x they made the bluetooth api incompatible with their own tools, you're supposed to do dbus incantations through interactive python shell or something. Mar 08 04:41:07 :) Mar 08 04:41:35 Or like, use the "user friendly" kde/gnome panel applets Mar 08 04:41:40 blech Mar 08 04:41:44 I like Blueman, personally Mar 08 04:42:19 3.x was easy-ish to setup Mar 08 04:42:21 I wish it was Qt-based Mar 08 04:43:22 * ShadowJK has a little ARM router/nas box connecting to internet via bluetooth and gprs as backup Mar 08 04:43:33 nice Mar 08 04:43:52 It doesn't have the CPU, diskspace or ram to run any of the bluetooth applets :/ Mar 08 04:44:04 are there any good sub-$100 (CAD) ARM boards that are Linux-friendly? Mar 08 04:44:05 and no graphics card either Mar 08 04:44:16 the Beagleboard looks nice, but I can't imagine it being terribly cheap Mar 08 04:44:26 150 Mar 08 04:44:28 (beagle) Mar 08 04:44:32 oh really? Mar 08 04:44:32 hmm Mar 08 04:44:35 * jaem may look into that Mar 08 04:44:42 isn't it splattered all over their webpage? Mar 08 04:44:55 I hadn't actually looked... I was just musing Mar 08 04:44:59 I'm using a NSLU2 anyway, flashed with openslug Mar 08 04:45:05 NSLU2 is ARM? Mar 08 04:45:08 yeah Mar 08 04:45:17 I figured it was MIPS Mar 08 04:45:27 "XScale-IXP42x Family rev 1 (v5b)" Mar 08 04:45:42 at a roaring 133MHz Mar 08 04:46:12 half a decade old tech ;) Mar 08 04:46:59 hmmm... and the Beagleboard can run Maemo 5? Mar 08 04:47:24 or was it just that what can run on the Beagleboard will run on the RX-51? Mar 08 04:48:06 don't know about that Mar 08 04:48:53 * ShadowJK wonders how much it would cost to have a sheevaplug shipped to finland :( Mar 08 04:49:02 :) they look nice Mar 08 04:49:13 and cheap Mar 08 04:49:20 someone was speculating a drop to $50 Mar 08 04:49:24 that would be well worth it, then Mar 08 04:49:30 I hesitate at the current price Mar 08 04:49:34 but it's still not bad Mar 08 04:49:45 They themselves speculate $50 on volume Mar 08 04:50:00 I am guessing this means if you order 10,000 you might get them at $50 each :) Mar 08 04:50:07 well, get on it! :D Mar 08 04:50:21 this calls for a pyramid scheme! Mar 08 04:50:25 >_< Mar 08 04:51:13 dunno, the cute formfactor, not too crappy cpu power, and a comfortable .5 gig of ram for 99 Mar 08 04:51:16 doesn't sound expensive to me Mar 08 04:51:26 no, it's a pretty good deal as-is Mar 08 04:51:31 I agree Mar 08 04:51:43 I wish it had more I/O, though Mar 08 04:51:49 and wifi Mar 08 04:53:06 actually, wifi /would/ be awesome Mar 08 04:53:09 The problem is that there's always something new and better announced that you want to wait for Mar 08 04:53:32 just plug it into the wall, jack in a webcam/sensors/appliance/whatever and go Mar 08 04:54:06 tiny usb hub and usb wlan i gues Mar 08 04:54:12 that would work Mar 08 04:54:32 good luck finding one with decent drivers though Mar 08 04:55:17 * ShadowJK decides to sleep Mar 08 04:55:23 night Mar 08 05:03:55 does anybody here know ralann? Mar 08 05:46:54 need help loading latest streamripper 1.63.5--anyone Mar 08 05:50:52 Thomas Pietrowski can you help with latest strearipper-cannot load on n800 Mar 08 06:27:05 hmmm Mar 08 07:58:40 lbt: sudo apt-get install build-essential Mar 08 08:13:05 Morning, all Mar 08 08:13:20 lcuk: correct (about vala last night) Mar 08 08:14:52 Thanks Stskeeps - so build inside the vdk - which is why it's a v "dk" ... OK Mar 08 08:21:36 nah, ita just cos sdk and os isn't seperate Mar 08 08:22:12 its just a mer disk image Mar 08 08:31:41 * Stskeeps yawns Mar 08 08:41:07 * timelE61i ponders sleep Mar 08 08:42:30 * Stskeeps wakes up with coffee and a fresh look at hn-app-button.c Mar 08 08:47:08 b4 you do Mar 08 08:47:19 does virtualbox provide a dhcp server? Mar 08 08:47:34 my vb has a 10.0.2.15 ip Mar 08 08:47:37 which is wrong Mar 08 08:49:18 when it's in NAT, yeah Mar 08 08:49:22 you can adjust the network parameters afaik Mar 08 08:49:58 OK - I guess I have to shut down first... Mar 08 09:13:00 Corsac, lbt: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hmm.png Mar 08 09:13:12 \o/ Mar 08 09:15:29 really really need artwork though :P Mar 08 09:16:17 :D Mar 08 09:17:14 maybe I should take up graphic design : http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/Shopper-rot.png Mar 08 09:17:47 hehe Mar 08 09:18:17 morning all Mar 08 09:18:31 morning Mar 08 09:19:31 don't you just hate how the x in the corner actually closes an app? i often get that wrong :P Mar 08 09:19:51 i'm pondering to make the x the switcher menu Mar 08 09:20:02 as in the one when there's too many tasks Mar 08 09:39:05 Stskeeps: looking good. Can't you just chop up wazd's mockup to get the various elements you need? Mar 08 09:39:51 Jaffa: probably Mar 08 09:40:00 but we need to do some other things as well too so Mar 08 09:41:01 Stskeeps: is the X button for top corner available by marquee-plugins? Mar 08 09:52:15 Meiz_webirk: im not sure really, i can't get it to show anything Mar 08 09:52:20 Meiz_webirk: how does it work in UME? Mar 08 09:54:15 Stskeeps: it didn't work fo mee too, but here ae the original UME conffiles (from /etc/hildon-desktop/) http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/marquee/ume-conffiles.tar.gz Mar 08 09:54:53 *nod* Mar 08 09:56:35 interesting than on a mouse driven device corners and edges are easy targets, but on touchscreen they can be much harder to hit Mar 08 09:57:22 yeah, true Mar 08 09:57:47 why is everyone ditching the sidebar? it makes the aspect ratio of a full screen video approx the same as a windowed one Mar 08 09:58:00 mavhc: web browsing probably Mar 08 09:58:32 suppose if browsing becomes less painful I'd use it more Mar 08 09:59:08 i understood after webkit eal that browsing could be quite less painful Mar 08 09:59:23 well, also, considering that the left bar is total waste of space to begin with. Mar 08 09:59:39 it's like windows would have the start menu open all the time on your desktop Mar 08 09:59:55 it's a task switcher, not a start menu Mar 08 10:00:10 it serves both purposes Mar 08 10:00:37 konttori_: we're experimenting a bit in mer these days: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hmm.png , - think we safely can make some of the icons bigger though :P Mar 08 10:00:53 Left bar might make it easier to start / switch an app, but considering the time to do those vs. using the app, it's obvious that the left bar takes proportionally too much space vs the usefullness of it. Mar 08 10:01:18 those top icons look just nicely usable as they are Mar 08 10:01:20 imho Mar 08 10:01:34 and looking good (except the icons, that look still a bit hackish) Mar 08 10:01:38 yeah, they are :P Mar 08 10:01:50 * Stskeeps is waiting for wazd to show up to bring artwork ;) Mar 08 10:02:29 * konttori_ is working atm on parts of theme maker that will sadly not make it to public until some more details of the UI are published. Mar 08 10:02:33 sniff. Mar 08 10:03:22 so that top bar is the same height as the top bar on maemo, and it does the task switching too? Mar 08 10:04:07 the top bar on this screenshot is 52 pixels and does task switching, status bar, app launcher and titlebar menu Mar 08 10:07:09 Stskeeps: could you upload the .conf files you used for that configuration (~/.osso/hildon-desktop/?) Mar 08 10:07:26 Meiz_webirk: not yet sorry, it is based on hildon desktop not yet in repository Mar 08 10:07:30 i'm just pondering if to make the right-most X into http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-dropdownapps.png Mar 08 10:07:39 ok Mar 08 10:07:45 you might have to click twice to close but you avoid accidential closures :P Mar 08 10:07:56 k Mar 08 10:07:59 i was having toubles with statusbar integration Mar 08 10:09:03 the unlimited resources solution would be to let you unclose the app if you accidentally closed it Mar 08 10:09:18 yeah :P Mar 08 10:09:38 morning Mar 08 10:09:43 the hack would be to not close it right away, give the user 10 second to unclose, but that's probably more annoying Mar 08 10:10:00 on the other hand, it could be useful that X was actually not a direct message to the window, but to the app switcher so if the app switcher failed to close it, it would kill it (after asking you) Mar 08 10:11:20 if every app has perfect autosave it wouldn't matter either Mar 08 10:12:10 hello Mar 08 10:12:19 I think the Xs are small enough that you can't hit them accidentally often enough Mar 08 10:13:05 mm true Mar 08 10:14:30 I suppose if you get rid of the sidebar apps can add their own sidebar in the space Mar 08 10:15:33 i follow instructions for install kde4 on my nokia n810 ( http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Maemo/KDE4_on_n810 ) but i've got problem with the repository deb http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ diablo extras (404 error) Mar 08 10:16:07 or preferably on the right hand side if there's no scroll bar Mar 08 10:16:41 i really ponder how difficult it is to implement multiple home screens Mar 08 10:17:02 switchdesktop on itt Mar 08 10:17:13 yeah Mar 08 10:17:18 but without having to reload HD Mar 08 10:17:41 hmm, workspaces on your NIT Mar 08 10:17:47 are you still having all the applets loaded within the HD task? Mar 08 10:18:35 do you know about works on maemo5 + nokia 770 ? Mar 08 10:18:49 well currently that is the old h-d desktop :/ new h-d desktop uses clutter extensively Mar 08 10:19:07 rzr: mm, since mer even has trouble on 770.. Mar 08 10:19:26 hi Stskeeps Mar 08 10:20:15 btw just curious is nokia directly involved in mer ? Mar 08 10:20:35 nop, it's a community project Mar 08 10:20:45 but they are supporting in different ways Mar 08 10:22:09 helped a lot to get a h-d matching the fremantle libs for instance Mar 08 10:22:14 and the code drops Mar 08 10:22:43 so which HD are we talking about for mer? Mar 08 10:23:01 who knows if deb http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ diablo extras has moved ? Mar 08 10:23:23 mavhc: there's one that's the old desktop (diablo like) and there's the fremantle desktop (which has seperated hildon-home and hildon-desktop, and uses clutter extensively) Mar 08 10:24:11 ok Mar 08 10:24:32 Stskeeps: so you have both h-d versions now in mer? Mar 08 10:25:05 suihkulokki: not the clutter one, just the one delivered in pre-alpha(2) Mar 08 10:25:30 there would be some libhildondesktop clash too afaik so Mar 08 10:26:11 and still basing on top of gtk+ built with #MAEMO_CHANGES + Mar 08 10:26:19 yeah Mar 08 10:27:29 * suihkulokki rumbles in the distance Mar 08 10:27:34 and do you plan to switch to the new one? Mar 08 10:28:09 mavhc: well it would be a bit contrary to the fact that we can't have proper clutter on n8x0.. Mar 08 10:28:20 so no Mar 08 10:28:58 (yet) Mar 08 10:29:20 (ever) but in your own words: "who the fuck needs opengl" Mar 08 10:29:46 lcuk: gamers^^ Mar 08 10:30:07 and compiz :P Mar 08 10:30:07 they will have the n900 :) Mar 08 10:30:25 or will carry around their desktop Mar 08 10:30:41 "look, i can play warcraft on the bus" Mar 08 10:30:53 * Stskeeps still wants that touch book thing Mar 08 10:31:35 looks nice tbh Mar 08 10:31:44 Stskeeps: touchbook? Mar 08 10:31:51 Stskeeps: that's rather nice Mar 08 10:31:52 better than augmented reality: "Look, I can play warcraft with this bus" Mar 08 10:32:01 Stskeeps: Touch book with Mer \o/ Mar 08 10:32:04 aquatix: http://i.gizmodo.com/5162584/first-hands-on-touch-book-is-part+netbook-part+tablet Mar 08 10:32:11 yep Mar 08 10:32:15 actually, thats like dividing by zero - warcraft users NEVER travel the bus :D Mar 08 10:32:23 i first only read "touch thing" in your sentence Mar 08 10:32:46 lcuk: the biggest improvement of opengl on every operation that you could do on software is sub pixel accuracy. Mar 08 10:32:46 I'm still not sure how online gamers earn money to pay for the online gaming they do for 18 hours a day Mar 08 10:33:20 not that big a thing perhaps on such high dpi devices as maemo has, but still. Anyway, of course, opengl also offers so much more that you cannot do on software at all Mar 08 10:33:46 mavhc: welfare.. Mar 08 10:33:47 :P Mar 08 10:34:12 or CC scams, probably Mar 08 10:34:27 konttori_, agreed in principle Mar 08 10:35:44 * konttori_ has just finished adding a nifty thing in theme maker and is having quite a kick on seeing that working on the device. Mar 08 10:36:47 konttori_: N810? Mar 08 10:36:51 Stskeeps: the touch book device looks really nice (one you linked to ) Mar 08 10:36:54 * lcuk laughs Mar 08 10:37:00 Jaffa: the other device. Mar 08 10:37:01 konttori_: it's basically a portable beagleboard, so i want. :P Mar 08 10:37:08 konttori_: oh, N800? ;-) Mar 08 10:37:13 Jaffa: lol Mar 08 10:37:16 nahhh jaffa, 770 Mar 08 10:37:30 * Jaffa wants a touchbook; but will believe it when I see it. Mar 08 10:37:42 "believe" is a strong word; hold out hope :) Mar 08 10:37:54 * Jaffa wants a bigger screened tablet for around the house Mar 08 10:38:05 Jaffa: since there's actual schematics and it's a guy who made tangible products before, i tend to believe it :P Mar 08 10:38:53 jaffa, my lenovo x41 does that job :) Mar 08 10:39:03 Stskeeps: I believe it; just want it to be good (will reserve judgement until then) and it's shipping to the UK Mar 08 10:39:16 lcuk: indeed, been looking at cheap old tablet PCs on ebay Mar 08 10:39:46 * lcuk is just doing quantum teleportation of sketches and photos Mar 08 10:40:27 But I'm about to lay down a wad of cash on a new fitted study (sold the sofa bed on ebay, and the current office furniture's looking hopeful) so it'd have to be a dirt cheap tablet for knocking around with. Mar 08 10:40:49 i got this one from ebay for �280 i got to view it first Mar 08 10:41:10 * konttori_ is really interested in seeing that will there actually be a significant device base spawning from the existence of beagleboard. The idea from TI to create it was a really good one. But intel with the atom and nvidia with the atom + nvidia integrated, sounds just about the perfect processor for touch book type of devices. Mar 08 10:42:00 as, the power consuption of the display is so high on bigger display sizes, that the advantage of omap 3 vs. the lowest version of atom is not that big anymore. especially against underclocked atoms Mar 08 10:42:26 * lcuk underclocks his x41 Mar 08 10:42:56 800mhz has so much headroom! Mar 08 10:43:28 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-xmenu.png , x is grossly misplaced, but.. Mar 08 10:46:57 konttori_, you mention doin theme maker in ogl on the device - how about your ukmp, hows that looking or have you not considered converting yet Mar 08 10:47:54 lcuk: I haven't been working on ukmp for fremantle at all Mar 08 10:48:19 the diablo version (on my development branch) is much better now though. Mar 08 10:48:22 I could publish that. Mar 08 10:48:48 you mustv had some thoughts of your own though: what would you like to do with it that you cannot now Mar 08 10:48:54 Also, one of the reasons for postponing the work on ukmp is that I have wanted to have tracker in place before doing anything to ukmp. Mar 08 10:49:20 also, I could seriously see myself as writing that now with either qgraphicsview or with clutter. Mar 08 10:49:48 Stskeeps: I like that idea; especially if instead of an "X" it becomes some other symbol (one for wazd perhaps) Mar 08 10:50:03 FAQ: "Where did my X go?" Mar 08 10:50:21 "she is currently located in your best friends bed" Mar 08 10:50:30 Hmm, would keeping it as "X" be that bad? My initial thought was yes, but perhaps not. Mar 08 10:51:06 just as long as it's not the Window Mobile "x" Mar 08 10:51:14 +s Mar 08 10:52:32 konttori_, is there python bindings for either clutter or qt now then, or have you changed language/ Mar 08 10:52:34 lcuk: well, most of those ideas about what I could do with opengl revolve around moving items on the view, rotating them on the fly and doing fancy transitions between views. Mar 08 10:52:46 clutter has python bindings. Mar 08 10:53:11 i thought rotation was os level so the app doesnt need to play with that? Mar 08 10:53:22 my preferred language still remains python (or javascript), otoh, I have done some c++ coding on qt now as well. Mar 08 10:53:52 are the clutter bindings cross platform? Mar 08 10:53:53 vala is my preferred language if I needed to write something to serve as a daemon type component on the platform Mar 08 10:54:01 lcuk: afaik they are Mar 08 10:54:27 cool Mar 08 10:54:37 so, you can write the app on your desktop with clutter on python and then just copy the python files to the device and it will just work, Mar 08 10:54:42 i thought vala was usable to make gtk objective as well Mar 08 10:54:58 * lcuk would prefer to write the other way round Mar 08 10:54:59 sure. it's really nice for any glib based stuff really Mar 08 10:55:08 theres nothing worse than getting to a device and finding out its too fat Mar 08 10:55:16 I just happen to believe that UIs should be written on script / interpreted languages. Mar 08 10:55:34 as they will be so much better in handling error situations than compiled languages. Mar 08 10:55:42 with good libraries behind the glue code doesnt have to be rapid :) Mar 08 10:55:44 i might believe that for higher end devices but after seeing openmoko .. Mar 08 10:56:09 Stskeeps: what about openmoko? Mar 08 10:56:25 * konttori_ doesn't keep openmoko under his radar. Mar 08 10:57:54 konttori_, i think the experience is somewhat underwhelming Mar 08 10:58:06 mornin yerga Mar 08 10:58:15 konttori_: well, afaik their UI is mostly written in python.. and it is somewhat same specs as a n8x0, and it was deadly slow (i'm a python fan but sometimes it is not feasible to run it) Mar 08 10:58:34 morning Mar 08 10:58:37 Stskeeps, it might be in python but its calling into gtk stuffs Mar 08 10:58:49 python isnt so bad at specific library wrangling Mar 08 10:59:33 however i was looking at some pybookreader thing - its rendering is as quick as it can be and autoscrolls (with tearing) but loading a book takes 20x longer than required Mar 08 11:00:23 lcuk: It would be so great to have psyco running on arm Mar 08 11:00:54 * konttori_ tested it on i386 a few times and just two lines of code make python so much faster for any in-pythong calculations. Mar 08 11:01:01 whats missing from it that it doesnt work Mar 08 11:01:52 lcuk: it is a form of JIT and would need to be re-written to do it for arm Mar 08 11:02:06 a lot of work really Mar 08 11:02:29 has anyone tried? its just in c from what i can see Mar 08 11:02:46 and, usually the tight loops are anyway usually using c components in python apps Mar 08 11:04:14 lol replace python and c with basic and asm and we couldv time travelled 20 years in the past! Mar 08 11:05:18 lcuk: there has been discussion, but afaik, no-one has even dared to start. Mar 08 11:05:42 lol Mar 08 11:07:00 konttori_, have you seen the new mediabox media centre thing? looks very swish and works well on device Mar 08 11:07:54 lcuk: I haven't tried it yet Mar 08 11:08:18 lcuk: that was python app, right? Mar 08 11:08:31 yeah Mar 08 11:08:33 hola Mar 08 11:08:40 what libs does it need? Mar 08 11:08:54 * konttori_ has wicked ideas of where to test it. Mar 08 11:09:18 http://mediabox.garage.maemo.org/ Mar 08 11:09:48 ah. needs mplayer. Mar 08 11:10:12 mafw is prefered i gather (indirect mplayer) Mar 08 11:10:45 just try it, i was surprised at how nicely it worked Mar 08 11:10:52 I will try it Mar 08 11:11:13 they even offer direct folder access to media instead of a big library :P Mar 08 11:11:27 is that good? Mar 08 11:11:31 ;) Mar 08 11:12:02 depending on usage and how often you change media disks and how your mind is configured, hell yeah! Mar 08 11:12:17 nothing worse than firing up canola and it not getting media because its not scanned it yet Mar 08 11:12:19 gud moarning. Mar 08 11:12:36 lcuk: well, tracker should take care of the file changes quite nicely in the future Mar 08 11:12:47 roope: morning Mar 08 11:13:00 roope: I just got theme maker to produce themes for fremantle. Mar 08 11:13:19 and made a very nice background image Mar 08 11:13:22 nothing better than a nice sunny march sunday morning. Mar 08 11:13:32 konttori: sounds cool, hmm. Mar 08 11:13:38 * lcuk looks to windwo and sees fog Mar 08 11:13:55 is there something that... are there missing pieces still? Mar 08 11:13:58 konttori_, are these themes still gtk at their core or are they clutter textures Mar 08 11:14:17 lcuk: themes are pretty much the same as before. Mar 08 11:14:25 or some parts of the ui you can't theme? Mar 08 11:14:27 just a bit of new added stuff on top of the old stuff Mar 08 11:14:38 cool, so the themes for fremantle should translate directly back to normal gtk? Mar 08 11:14:58 roope: well, I haven't finished theming of the colors yet completely, but I'll take a look at that next. Mar 08 11:15:20 but, as dar as I know, all the assets are now in place on the template side. Mar 08 11:15:21 i.e. parts of the ui that arem't in the akpha? Mar 08 11:15:51 roope: I have the full stuff on my dev. Mar 08 11:15:58 I mean dev env of theme maker Mar 08 11:16:12 so, I cannot publish it until I clean up the unnecessary stuff from it. Mar 08 11:16:41 yeah. Mar 08 11:16:50 but, I want to make the full version before crippling it Mar 08 11:16:58 don't launch it from thememaker yet. :) Mar 08 11:17:44 as, also, I don't know when they will publish the missing pieces. perhaps for the beta release? Mar 08 11:18:19 i have installed kde4 on n810 but the system reboot after have launch plasma :s Mar 08 11:18:53 yes, for the beta. Mar 08 11:19:33 so leave those parts outside before the beta. Mar 08 11:21:24 roope: yeah, well, I might just as well wait until beta to publish theme maker Mar 08 11:21:41 I mean, to me, it makes little sense to publish it before you can actually use the results. Mar 08 11:21:55 yeah, that's true. Mar 08 11:22:13 you need to see the status etc. to see what you're doing. Mar 08 11:25:02