**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 21 02:59:57 2009 Apr 21 03:00:43 ubuntu uses a rescue menu, just press home+power at startup to select console Apr 21 03:00:58 oh thats howw :p Apr 21 03:00:59 heh Apr 21 03:01:07 i always saw screenshots, im like hmm how do i get that menu Apr 21 03:01:13 b-man`: would it be feasible to allow the user to switch to tty once booted? Apr 21 03:01:23 that rescue mode would do Apr 21 03:01:29 call me a geek, but tty's were one thing I missed when running Maemo Apr 21 03:01:38 ? Apr 21 03:01:41 zakkm: I mean from a running GUI install, just like on a desktop Apr 21 03:01:41 you can run terminal? Apr 21 03:01:55 just boot into console everytime Apr 21 03:02:01 no, I want both Apr 21 03:02:03 dont add xdm or anything Apr 21 03:02:05 shure - you should be able to get tty when booted Apr 21 03:02:09 and it will go into console Apr 21 03:02:14 and when you want desktop you do startx? Apr 21 03:02:16 if you kill x Apr 21 03:02:18 zakkm: I want to be able to switch Apr 21 03:02:26 b-man`: any key combo, or just manual? Apr 21 03:02:30 ubuntu uses gdm or kdm Apr 21 03:02:38 manual Apr 21 03:02:40 ubuntu uses gdm, kubuntu uses kdm :D Apr 21 03:02:52 i know XD Apr 21 03:02:53 b-man`: thanks Apr 21 03:03:01 np :) Apr 21 03:03:27 grr... I deactivated my keyboard, and my N810 rebooted Apr 21 03:03:35 methinks there be boogs Apr 21 03:04:06 * b-man` needs to update a lot of stuff in ubuntu-n8x0 Apr 21 03:05:18 i just wish i had time :( Apr 21 03:05:37 okay, which one is the home button? Apr 21 03:05:58 the one with the little house icon Apr 21 03:06:23 on the N810? Apr 21 03:06:50 lower-rightmost button on the keyboard? Apr 21 03:06:51 n810 - the one with the two little squares Apr 21 03:06:57 ah Apr 21 03:07:17 * b-man` uses an N800 :) Apr 21 03:08:53 k, logged into the console Apr 21 03:09:47 witch desktop env are you planning on using btw? Apr 21 03:10:05 GNOME if I can Apr 21 03:10:09 b-man: how well does fvwm-crystal work on the tablet, have you tried? Apr 21 03:10:10 :D Apr 21 03:10:20 KDE4 would be great, but I think that would be slow Apr 21 03:10:42 everything but maemo is slow ;p Apr 21 03:10:46 zakkm: i haven't yet - could you give me a link? :) Apr 21 03:10:53 its in repository Apr 21 03:11:06 you can apt-get it Apr 21 03:11:13 ah, shoot Apr 21 03:11:17 my vmdk just crashed/ totally messed up before i could install it Apr 21 03:11:29 I'd need to start wireless in order to get sys-env-x over the wi-fi Apr 21 03:11:38 b-man`: apt-get install fvwm-crystal Apr 21 03:11:43 zakkm: software in ubuntu runs better than software in maemo on my tablet Apr 21 03:11:46 k Apr 21 03:11:52 hey b-man` Apr 21 03:11:57 hello Apr 21 03:11:58 how goes getting Vista on your N800? Apr 21 03:12:03 lol Apr 21 03:12:04 :) Apr 21 03:12:38 b-man`: http://www.linux.org/dist/reviews/images/fvwm-crystal.png <-- pic of fvwm-crystal Apr 21 03:12:39 b-man`: you have that Ubuntu working on N810? Apr 21 03:12:44 or just N800? Apr 21 03:12:45 very lightweightt Apr 21 03:13:04 moreso than fluxbox i would assume Apr 21 03:13:24 I'll try this from maemo... will I need to do anything beforehand besides unmounting the external card, remounting it as /mnt/jaunty and mounting the other five directories? Apr 21 03:13:43 kcowolf: chrooting .. Apr 21 03:13:53 most important , except initial mounting of course Apr 21 03:14:58 will running the N810 with the charger plugged in run wear out the battery? Apr 21 03:14:59 luke-jr: i own an N800 and yes :) Apr 21 03:15:13 b-man`: but it does work on N810? Apr 21 03:15:18 zakkm: awsome Apr 21 03:15:22 yes Apr 21 03:15:28 b-man`: mind if I steal some stuff? :D Apr 21 03:15:30 b-man`: mind checking for me how well it performs, screensize wise and all Apr 21 03:15:49 luke-jr: shure XD Apr 21 03:15:54 b-man`: sweet Apr 21 03:16:00 b-man`: how did you get the fscking kb to work? :D Apr 21 03:16:04 zakkm: shure :) Apr 21 03:16:30 b-man`: thank you, shouldnt be too big, 7mb tops Apr 21 03:17:47 luke-jr: it's xkbd Apr 21 03:17:58 b-man`: that's no kb Apr 21 03:18:00 wow 0.o Apr 21 03:18:04 b-man`: I mean the real one Apr 21 03:18:27 you cant use maemo one. Apr 21 03:18:41 so it really doesn't work on N810? ☹ Apr 21 03:19:10 it should work Apr 21 03:19:27 b-man`: how? Apr 21 03:19:54 especially the Fn key Apr 21 03:19:55 it uses xserver-xorg-input-evdev from mer Apr 21 03:19:57 how did you get that working? Apr 21 03:20:02 IIRC, it's a problem for Mer too :/ Apr 21 03:20:09 or at least Stskeepz made it sound that way Apr 21 03:20:21 hmm :/ Apr 21 03:20:43 should I need to do the insmod commands again? Apr 21 03:20:50 is there anyway to run windows ce on the n800? Apr 21 03:20:57 romeus1: emulator maybe Apr 21 03:21:08 on the other hand, my *immediate* problem is that my keymap doesn't seem to work once I start X Apr 21 03:21:25 hmm Apr 21 03:21:28 "mounting /dev/mmcblk1p3 on /mnt/jaunty failed" Apr 21 03:21:46 you need to run insmod Apr 21 03:21:50 kcowolf: how big does your MMC card have to be to desire 3 partitions? -.- Apr 21 03:22:14 It's 8GB, and I just followed the tutorial Apr 21 03:22:27 (dosfs, swap, ext3) Apr 21 03:22:32 why vfat? Apr 21 03:22:47 viewing from windows. Apr 21 03:22:52 oh Apr 21 03:22:53 Windows Apr 21 03:22:56 people still use that? Apr 21 03:22:59 lol Apr 21 03:23:02 its also good for tablet Apr 21 03:23:02 luke-jr: apparently Apr 21 03:23:04 go figure Apr 21 03:23:06 to have a vfat partition Apr 21 03:23:10 zakkm: nonsense Apr 21 03:23:23 heh Apr 21 03:23:38 woot Apr 21 03:23:44 thats what i initially was told. Apr 21 03:23:45 kdelibs 4.2 is 5% done building Apr 21 03:24:06 lol Apr 21 03:24:10 theres alot of kde packages ;p Apr 21 03:24:20 technically just 8 or so Apr 21 03:25:23 * b-man` starts to wget/compile fvwm-crystal Apr 21 03:25:58 b-man`: so you didn't really do anything to get the kb working, did you? :/ Apr 21 03:26:27 b-man`: why you compiling? Apr 21 03:26:36 i did, allthough it obviously wasn't verry functionall Apr 21 03:26:54 b-man`: any info on what you did? Apr 21 03:27:35 b-man: its very lightweight, wants alot of things like mpd and stuff Apr 21 03:27:54 i mostly borrowed keymaps & drivers from mer/deblet Apr 21 03:28:05 b-man`: <.< links? Apr 21 03:28:25 * b-man` grabs the repo link Apr 21 03:28:25 http://www.fvwm-crystal.org/user-screenshots/nemo.jpg <-- favourite desktop screenshot of all times, (its old ) Apr 21 03:28:38 linux one anyways Apr 21 03:29:17 luke-jr: http://www.bman.maemobox.org/repository/ --ubuntu-n8x0 repo Apr 21 03:30:19 okay, hopefully should be ready to apt-get install sys-env-x Apr 21 03:32:38 * kcowolf crosses his fingers... pleasework pleasework pleasework... Apr 21 03:34:59 * b-man` 's ubuntu install is going on 4 months of age and is still going strong on his N800 btw :) Apr 21 03:35:18 as of tomorrow Apr 21 03:35:30 21st Apr 21 03:35:36 b-man: thanks for all your help on this, and thanks for doing it in the first place... one of the biggest motivations behind getting the n810 Apr 21 03:35:53 no problem :) Apr 21 03:40:41 kdelibs 23% Apr 21 03:59:40 should I need to do the fuser -m line again? Apr 21 04:10:48 36% kdelbis :D Apr 21 04:19:27 Can anybody tell me how to debug home plugins in N810? Apr 21 04:21:35 b-man: still around? Apr 21 04:25:21 i'm still here :) Apr 21 04:25:58 * b-man` needs to go to bed soon though Apr 21 04:39:47 i can make apt-get install diablo free non free source in ubuntu cause Apr 21 04:40:40 echo "deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free non- free" >> /etc/apt/sources.list Apr 21 04:41:13 E: Could not open file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_diablo_non-_source_Sources - open (2 No such file or directory) Apr 21 04:46:34 which one is the preferred method to become root on the N810? ssh or...?s Apr 21 04:46:48 hm, probably doesn't matter much when you set a password?s Apr 21 04:48:50 ah, very well :) Apr 21 04:50:43 nice, nice Apr 21 04:51:17 shoot Apr 21 04:51:36 forgot to do export LC_ALL=C before I started apt-get install ubuntu-desktop Apr 21 04:52:04 now I'm worried that's going to cause problems since it already tried to start the install Apr 21 05:37:03 Moo all Apr 21 05:37:11 Congratulations, lcuk Apr 21 05:46:18 there's no less?s Apr 21 06:00:47 morning Apr 21 06:01:30 moo thux. Apr 21 06:05:03 there's no pipe on the kbd of the N810?s Apr 21 06:06:38 unfortunately, no Apr 21 06:06:48 doom, doom! Apr 21 06:06:55 Although you can install a custom kbd layout Apr 21 06:07:06 well, that'3s true Apr 21 06:07:20 but there seems to be no 'less' either Apr 21 06:09:34 more could be Apr 21 06:10:18 I could live with most, if it has to be more Apr 21 06:11:29 i installed apps to tablet via ssh but some ui apps popup question which folder to be installed, how can i handle this via ssh? (long way from my tablet) Apr 21 06:12:14 i don't see popup to ssh Apr 21 06:12:15 vnc? Apr 21 06:12:23 oh, that works also Apr 21 06:12:29 try ssh -X user@tablet Apr 21 06:12:37 ok Apr 21 06:12:40 (has to be enabled on the sshd too, though) Apr 21 06:12:45 (8dunno if it is) Apr 21 06:15:13 does anyone actually use KDE 4 on N810? :x Apr 21 06:15:27 how do they manage around the Akonadi mess? Apr 21 06:16:08 thux, it's already enabled... "X11Forwarding yes" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config in case it's not Apr 21 06:16:23 only madmen :-P Apr 21 06:18:46 tried with ssh -X but still don't see the popup Apr 21 06:18:52 well, is there no such thing as s2ram//s2disk for the N80?s Apr 21 06:19:11 thux, hm, you should - if you say echo $DISPLAY should say :10 Apr 21 06:19:34 and if you call e.g. xterm (or whatever term you got there) it should open to zou Apr 21 06:19:45 might take a loong while though if your connection is slow Apr 21 06:19:57 x11 is not a very efficient protocol Apr 21 06:20:32 echo $DISPLAY localhost:10.0 Apr 21 06:20:53 that's ok Apr 21 06:20:57 that'3s your ssh Apr 21 06:21:02 -tunnel Apr 21 06:21:09 ok Apr 21 06:21:19 i try wait longer Apr 21 06:21:52 hm Apr 21 06:22:01 is the Nokia using the X protocol?s Apr 21 06:22:22 it surely doesn't run xorg... Apr 21 06:22:51 thux, I'm only playing with it for a couple of hours... Apr 21 06:23:12 so if it's in some fundamental way different than a pc, I wouldn't know Apr 21 06:23:51 it's running xomap, an x server based on kdrive Apr 21 06:24:06 but a lot of apps hardcode their DISPLAY variable Apr 21 06:24:07 dpkg --configure -a Setting up tear (0.3) ... Cache file created successfully. and there it hangs, probably waiting to that popup ok Apr 21 06:24:12 they only look for :0 Apr 21 06:24:16 argh Apr 21 06:24:29 well, that's just crap then Apr 21 06:24:39 johnx, but xomap implements x11? Apr 21 06:25:18 yeah, it's a fairly normal x server for most purposes Apr 21 06:25:55 but can't i tell dpkg somehow not to ask directory where install? Apr 21 06:25:59 thux, perhaps try dpkg -force-help to see your options to force dpkg over... glitches Apr 21 06:26:11 ok Apr 21 06:28:51 ... but I don't see any Apr 21 06:29:06 if you have x11vnc installed, you can see the screen Apr 21 06:29:38 CutMeOwnThroat: my N810 is running X.org :p Apr 21 06:30:48 luke-jr, how much of the memory does it use?s Apr 21 06:31:44 CutMeOwnThroat: about 5 MB of RAM according to top Apr 21 06:32:06 a lot less than my desktop... Apr 21 06:32:44 your desktop has apps running ☺ Apr 21 06:32:57 X stores resources for apps in its own memory space Apr 21 06:33:07 I'm still working on KDE 4.2 Apr 21 06:33:18 kdelibs is at 82% Apr 21 06:34:05 hm, can I change the default username of "user" to something else or is that hardcoded somewhere as well Apr 21 06:34:18 it's hardcoded *everywhere* Apr 21 06:34:18 luke-jr, well... not running firefox might do it :) Apr 21 06:34:29 aaah Apr 21 06:34:41 this kind of thing is why I am installing Gentoo -.- Apr 21 06:34:42 also, I think x.org includes the size of the framebuffer as part of it's memory usage Apr 21 06:35:08 Akonadi/MySQL scares me though Apr 21 06:36:23 luke-jr, gentoo? Apr 21 06:36:31 you plan to compile everything?s Apr 21 06:36:39 CutMeOwnThroat: like I said, I'm 82% doen w/ kdelibs Apr 21 06:36:54 sounds like.... fun Apr 21 06:36:56 :D Apr 21 06:36:57 endless fun Apr 21 06:36:59 join us! Apr 21 06:37:02 you can be #4 Apr 21 06:37:02 some of us are working with ubuntu instead Apr 21 06:37:03 nah Apr 21 06:37:17 I use Debian for... well enough years Apr 21 06:37:19 putting the good parts of maemo on top of an ubuntu base Apr 21 06:37:28 a *slim* ubuntu base Apr 21 06:37:32 so if I switch, it'll be there Apr 21 06:37:41 aw Apr 21 06:37:42 but having stripped-down stuff makes sense Apr 21 06:37:52 so I'll see for a while Apr 21 06:37:59 sometimes it's worth the trade off and sometimes it isn't Apr 21 06:37:59 we're using Gentoo's CFLAGS stuff to slim everything :D Apr 21 06:38:06 yay -Os Apr 21 06:38:09 we ended up deciding busybox vs coreutils wasn't worth it Apr 21 06:38:36 err...that busybox wasn't worth it I mean, compared to coreutils Apr 21 06:38:38 johnx: which direction? Apr 21 06:38:40 ah Apr 21 06:38:49 I understood that! Apr 21 06:38:55 yeah, BusyBox pisses me off Apr 21 06:39:00 johnx: you use BASH as well then? Apr 21 06:39:52 battery getting empty Apr 21 06:39:57 and I let the charger at uni Apr 21 06:40:01 Ö Apr 21 06:40:11 I never leave my charger anywhere Apr 21 06:40:16 luke-jr, yup, bash as well Apr 21 06:40:24 can't risk battery dying Apr 21 06:40:26 too many bashisms in ubuntu :/ Apr 21 06:40:29 oh well... ~1 hour left is ok... not more until sleeping time anyay (20 to 2 am here) Apr 21 06:40:35 >_< Apr 21 06:40:49 so is there any s2ram s2disk equivalent?s Apr 21 06:41:01 it seems to really switch off when I switch it off Apr 21 06:41:13 CutMeOwnThroat: just leave it running XD Apr 21 06:41:26 probably the inactive state comes close to laptop sleep mode anyway Apr 21 06:41:28 I don't think suspend to RAM would save much power, if any Apr 21 06:41:36 yeah Apr 21 06:41:38 guess so Apr 21 06:41:39 and there is no.. disk .. to save to Apr 21 06:41:45 of course! Apr 21 06:41:53 I put a 8GB SD in there Apr 21 06:41:59 heh Apr 21 06:42:02 put it in offline mode to save a little more juice Apr 21 06:42:06 SD is way too slow Apr 21 06:42:09 you'd run out of power waiting Apr 21 06:42:15 nah Apr 21 06:42:29 how much memory does the 810 have?s Apr 21 06:42:38 128 MB Apr 21 06:43:07 so 8 minutes to dump it all to SD Apr 21 06:43:27 well, you got a point Apr 21 06:43:29 no Apr 21 06:43:32 heck, it'll boot faster than the 4 minutes it'd take to restore Apr 21 06:43:41 You've got one slow goddamn SD. Apr 21 06:43:54 class 6 is 6MB/s Apr 21 06:43:56 GeneralAntilles: N810 is the bottleneck Apr 21 06:44:01 Minimum Apr 21 06:44:04 CutMeOwnThroat: I've never seen over 300 KB/sec on N810 Apr 21 06:44:12 that makes it ... 20 seconds?s Apr 21 06:44:19 It's not the N810 Apr 21 06:44:23 my SD card supports up to 9 MB/sec Apr 21 06:44:35 but that'3s not the sd card then Apr 21 06:44:35 300KB/sec is definitely a problem with your card. Apr 21 06:45:12 GeneralAntilles: how would you suggest benchmarking? Apr 21 06:45:18 IIRC, the onyl time I've seen it was scp Apr 21 06:45:25 so I suppose the CPU might be the bottleneck there Apr 21 06:45:29 oh, and wget Apr 21 06:45:36 Well, for one, I get 800-900KB/sec sustained over SFTP Apr 21 06:45:43 bonnie++? :)9 Apr 21 06:45:43 oh, maybe wifi Apr 21 06:45:51 that could be it Apr 21 06:45:56 and about 2MB/sec on a USB transfer. Apr 21 06:46:10 So, no, suspend to disk isn't going to take 8 minutes. Apr 21 06:46:17 anyway, half a minute for suspend to disk doesn't sound too bad to me Apr 21 06:46:51 Problem is, the battery saving still isn't going to be all that great. Apr 21 06:46:53 GeneralAntilles: what would you say the N810's limit is, then? someone earlier mentioned a kernel patch to improve it Apr 21 06:47:02 GeneralAntilles, why?s Apr 21 06:47:08 what would still be running? Apr 21 06:47:17 Suspending and resuming isn't going to use less energy than a straight reboot. Apr 21 06:47:28 it should essentially switched off during s2disk Apr 21 06:47:35 no, not that Apr 21 06:47:42 CutMeOwnThroat: note even "power off" for N8x0 is not truly off Apr 21 06:47:53 it essentially is a straight reboot - actually + reading 128MB Apr 21 06:47:58 mmm Apr 21 06:48:06 Remember, your system using basically max power during the write and read from disk. Apr 21 06:48:12 sound's like a video recorder :( Apr 21 06:48:25 remove battery Apr 21 06:48:25 Which means unless you're suspending for more than a week it really isn't worth it. Apr 21 06:48:36 The N810's powersaving is epic at idle. Apr 21 06:48:44 You just need to make sure it's actually able to go idle. Apr 21 06:48:47 so leaving it on can be better than switching it off?s Apr 21 06:48:58 Yes, it's a 24/7 device Apr 21 06:49:04 allright Apr 21 06:49:06 The powersaving is designed to work when it's left on all the time. Apr 21 06:49:22 The efforts to improve efficiency have been put there and not into the reboot cycle. Apr 21 06:49:34 idle, with screen off, in offline mode is usually good for 2 weeks solid Apr 21 06:49:35 also explains why the battery ran dry so fast just now Apr 21 06:49:43 after installing all that gpl stuff :) Apr 21 06:49:53 johnx: 2 weeks? ö Apr 21 06:49:56 penguins ate it Apr 21 06:50:12 luke-jr, yup, there were tests and everything :) Apr 21 06:50:16 30 days idle is the absolute max. Apr 21 06:50:20 well, penguins wanna live as well Apr 21 06:50:23 I've never come close to 2 weeks, though I never leave it alone for more than a few hours Apr 21 06:50:32 CutMeOwnThroat, also, the battery meter tends to get pessimistic right after you push it Apr 21 06:50:40 heh Apr 21 06:50:54 it's not called 'marvin' by any chance?s Apr 21 06:51:07 heh Apr 21 06:51:24 it's kind of "if you keep doing what you just did now, then you've only got x many hours left" Apr 21 06:51:43 well, it keeps saying I got an hour Apr 21 06:51:51 what happens when it crashes?s Apr 21 06:51:59 CutMeOwnThroat: watchdog reboots Apr 21 06:52:03 Voltage also tends to drop dramatically under particularly heavy loads. Apr 21 06:52:03 does it shutdown to prevent?s Apr 21 06:52:19 though it's more likely to false-positive than a real crash Apr 21 06:52:20 yeah, it should shut down at critical battery Apr 21 06:52:29 or does it rely on journaling file.... ok Apr 21 06:52:41 it uses a journaling fs Apr 21 06:52:43 jffs2 Apr 21 06:52:54 hm Apr 21 06:53:04 I wonder what that sd card uses that I just pushed in Apr 21 06:53:24 if that's on fat, would be a good idea to change before I put stuff on Apr 21 06:53:43 jffs2 doesn't work on MMC/SD Apr 21 06:53:46 ext2 or 3 would be a fine choice if you don't want to use it with windows Apr 21 06:54:02 no Apr 21 06:54:02 and journalling filesystems supposedly have the opposite effect on them Apr 21 06:54:10 so ext2 Apr 21 06:54:16 luke-jr, uhm, no Apr 21 06:54:17 Um Apr 21 06:54:24 You're confusing wear leveling with journaling. Apr 21 06:54:29 I don't touch windows with a 7 foot laserpointer if I can avoid it Apr 21 06:54:43 then ext3 is a good bet Apr 21 06:54:44 GeneralAntilles: supposedly wear levelling makes journalling break on power failures? Apr 21 06:54:53 What? Apr 21 06:55:07 luke-jr, not disputing, but where did you hear that from? Apr 21 06:55:09 Neuros head developer Apr 21 06:55:09 xfs would be fun to try if it can use it :) Apr 21 06:55:21 CutMeOwnThroat, build yourself some kernel modules Apr 21 06:55:36 is ext4 support coming to tablets? Apr 21 06:55:53 * luke-jr doesn't see a need for ext4 on his desktop, let alone his tablet. Apr 21 06:56:18 well, thanks for the info... this has been enlightened me quite a bit in a short time :) Apr 21 06:57:11 CutMeOwnThroat, sure. actually, someone might have built xfs.ko, but it's easy enough to compile yourself Apr 21 06:57:23 thux, probably not unless a newer kernel becomes more usable Apr 21 06:57:40 ok Apr 21 06:59:08 oh, btw. anyone connected an usb keyboard to an N810 yet?s Apr 21 06:59:15 yup, all the time Apr 21 06:59:20 well, an n800 actually Apr 21 06:59:23 thux: i don't think ext4 is optimized for flash drives yet. so what would be the use of supporting ext4 on tablets? Apr 21 06:59:23 same difference Apr 21 06:59:30 right Apr 21 06:59:44 need to install anything for that?s Apr 21 07:00:06 No, but you'll want an OTG adaptor. Apr 21 07:00:10 tbf: i was just curious cause everybody seems to talk about it Apr 21 07:00:24 if you don't use an OTG adapter you have to manually put it into host mode with software Apr 21 07:00:27 yes, notice the adapter thing Apr 21 07:00:30 there's a couple little GUI front ends Apr 21 07:00:34 hm Apr 21 07:00:36 oh, ok Apr 21 07:00:51 Software solution is a pain Apr 21 07:00:57 Worth it to get the $6 part. Apr 21 07:01:03 GeneralAntilles, the little statusbar icon isn't bad Apr 21 07:02:39 ui Apr 21 07:02:52 not good for the ebook-like pdfs Apr 21 07:03:11 ah, zoom Apr 21 07:03:22 reiserfs was before popular talk subject but development slowed down Apr 21 07:03:29 thux: not sure if ext4 is worth the hype Apr 21 07:04:00 always wondered why linux support so many filesystems Apr 21 07:04:02 thux: not much faster than ext3 it seems, not safer and it's author didn't understands his users' needs until recently Apr 21 07:04:12 well. also not sure if he understands them now Apr 21 07:04:22 hm, need xpdf, though Apr 21 07:04:37 thux, only practice makes perfect :.-P Apr 21 07:05:03 :) Apr 21 07:05:05 thux: seems some people have fun in implementing file systems :-) Apr 21 07:05:31 CutMeOwnThroat, what about evince, epdfview or the built-in pdf viewer? Apr 21 07:06:27 is ext2 still faster than all journaling fs? Apr 21 07:06:32 http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/14/266 <-- useful infos ☺ Apr 21 07:07:17 johnx, which of them has continious-view?s Apr 21 07:07:27 dunno, actually Apr 21 07:07:40 to be honest I hit my pdf ebooks with pdftohtml and use fbreader Apr 21 07:08:04 mm, yeah Apr 21 07:08:10 I normally convert to pdf for the laptop Apr 21 07:08:22 latex-made is hard to beat Apr 21 07:08:35 there's fbreader for desktop linux too Apr 21 07:08:39 according to this, journals (and swap) effectively disable wear levelling ö Apr 21 07:08:42 <- fbreader fan Apr 21 07:08:43 I don't think html comes close Apr 21 07:08:50 hm, I can give it a try Apr 21 07:10:09 luke-jr, nice find Apr 21 07:12:32 between a rock and a hard place... Apr 21 07:12:44 I decided to just go journalling Apr 21 07:13:02 I haven't lost an sd card yet that I know is do to bad blocks caused by too many writes Apr 21 07:13:24 johnx: point 4 is quite scary Apr 21 07:14:04 well Apr 21 07:14:06 jffs2?s Apr 21 07:14:16 CutMeOwnThroat: jffs2 will NOT work on SD/MMC Apr 21 07:14:19 can't be used on a block device Apr 21 07:14:21 CutMeOwnThroat: it is not an option Apr 21 07:14:46 would be nice if the SD/MMC specs had a way to do it tho :/ Apr 21 07:14:55 instead of this block emulation crap Apr 21 07:16:06 johnx: I found that 8 GB doesn't take too long to fsck, so I will stick with ext2 regardless XD Apr 21 07:16:16 luke-jr, point 4 is scary, yes. but I haven't run into a flash device with issues with non-FAT filesystems in the last several years Apr 21 07:16:29 luke-jr, if you can fsck it, then good for you Apr 21 07:16:40 I'm sure I would have lost data by now if I wasn't using a journal Apr 21 07:17:39 oh? Apr 21 07:17:57 I don't think I've ever experienced loss with ext2 Apr 21 07:17:59 had to pull the battery plenty of times :) Apr 21 07:18:05 why would you lose anything? Apr 21 07:18:11 other than recent changes I mean Apr 21 07:18:39 if anything was open for writing it could be corrupted Apr 21 07:18:46 a journal means that writes are atomic Apr 21 07:18:55 no journal = no guarantee of consistency Apr 21 07:19:20 also, corruption of some random file tends to show up later, not right away Apr 21 07:20:06 :/ Apr 21 07:20:28 yeah Apr 21 07:20:48 nothing like chasing down some weird problem only to find out it's just a corrupted config file Apr 21 07:21:43 another note: I'm pretty sure mmc (aka sd) uses *slightly* different wear leveling than smart media Apr 21 07:21:53 I have a link to a white paper somewhere if you're interested Apr 21 07:22:07 johnx: he was referring to non-smartmedia Apr 21 07:22:14 what about the 2gd internal card Apr 21 07:22:20 fbreader displays too many chars/line, though Apr 21 07:22:32 CutMeOwnThroat, zoom in? Apr 21 07:22:37 should be around ... say 70 Apr 21 07:22:38 mmm Apr 21 07:22:39 Shadow__X: I don't write to it if I can help it. Apr 21 07:22:58 yeah, a soldered on sd card would worry me a little Apr 21 07:23:09 luke-jr, what if you flashed the n810 to it Apr 21 07:23:16 luke-jr, he was saying they use smart media-style wear leveling Apr 21 07:23:30 johnx: the implication was that everyone borrows it Apr 21 07:23:47 luke-jr, and I'm saying I read the mmc white paper on wear leveling and it seemed different Apr 21 07:23:48 CutMeOwnThroat, you're looking for the settings. Apr 21 07:23:58 you don't have to trust me. I can find the link Apr 21 07:24:27 Hello ! Apr 21 07:24:44 hi Khertan Apr 21 07:25:05 hm, yeah, that could work Apr 21 07:25:12 pretty huge on the laptop... Apr 21 07:25:55 well, lemme try Apr 21 07:28:44 hi, wanna to know if there are available JVM for 810 Apr 21 07:29:02 well, thanks again Apr 21 07:29:18 and... damn - I *knew* this useless toy would eat up my time :) Apr 21 07:29:37 CutMeOwnThroat, heh. you have no idea :) Apr 21 07:29:45 but, it's a lot of fun Apr 21 07:29:50 I'm getting it... I am Apr 21 07:29:54 veiz, checked uout jalimo? Apr 21 07:30:40 3x, check it now Apr 21 07:33:56 nite Apr 21 07:34:03 'night CutMeOwnThroat Apr 21 07:37:04 what toy is useless Apr 21 07:43:30 Shadow__X, a bicycle with no wheels Apr 21 07:43:51 is a bicycle considered a toy? Apr 21 07:44:00 depends on the context I guess Apr 21 07:44:06 right Apr 21 07:44:11 also size of bike Apr 21 07:44:29 if its a trike with 6 inch tires Apr 21 07:45:08 or if it's more than 10 feet tall Apr 21 07:45:40 right Apr 21 07:45:47 http://google.com/images?q=tall+bikes Apr 21 07:47:08 http://www.google.com/images?q=tall+bikes&hl=en&imgcolor=green Apr 21 07:47:12 now with green Apr 21 07:51:42 Weeeee, we won GSoC!11 Apr 21 07:51:52 http://socghop.appspot.com/org/home/google/gsoc2009/maemo Apr 21 07:52:51 woo! really looking forward to that news reader! Apr 21 07:53:49 And lcuk is 2nd :P na-na-na-naaa-na :D Just kidding :) Apr 21 08:24:30 wazd: which one is yours? Apr 21 08:34:50 X-Fade, ping? Apr 21 08:35:06 RST38h: first one :) Apr 21 08:35:07 pong Apr 21 08:35:54 X-Fade, the maemo.org beta logo on newstyle has a lighter background than the header. Apr 21 08:36:01 GeneralAntilles: Yep Apr 21 08:36:08 GeneralAntilles: Tim messed up Apr 21 08:36:20 RST38h: the most surprising project is definitely "IM for Canola" :) Apr 21 08:36:47 bittorrent for canola is a little suprising too Apr 21 08:37:04 X-Fade, there's something funky with tabbing and the login forms, too. Apr 21 08:37:31 * Stskeeps thinks there should have been more variety Apr 21 08:37:38 Yeah Apr 21 08:37:45 and fewer pointless addons to Canola. :P Apr 21 08:38:47 No, maybe they are interesting like PoC but -IM-, dude... Apr 21 08:39:00 oh well. at least there's one project to look forward to. Apr 21 08:39:13 a couple actually Apr 21 08:39:47 johnx: Sts meant Mer ofcourse :D Apr 21 08:39:47 barcode, the news reader, liqbase and picasa for canola would be nice Apr 21 08:39:54 mm Apr 21 08:40:02 wazd, well, goes without saying ;) Apr 21 08:41:23 * StsN800 is just grumpy mainlining kernel didn't get in but canola/im did. Apr 21 08:43:45 why exactly are people putting non-Telepathy IM into Canola? Apr 21 08:43:53 like, the tablets *have* an IM framework Apr 21 08:44:21 wjt: why exactly people putting -any- IM in Canola :) Apr 21 08:44:29 wazd: a fair point, well made Apr 21 08:44:38 i hear someone's also putting remember the milk into canola or something? Apr 21 08:45:09 now all it needs is a good text editor and a lisp interpreter ... Apr 21 08:45:16 wjt: it's one of the winners too :) Apr 21 08:45:22 wazd: right Apr 21 08:45:37 johnx: I heard "emacs"?) Apr 21 08:45:48 johnx: well, if they embedded elisp then they could use http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ELIM rather than libpurple directly :D Apr 21 08:49:54 tear looks promishing if it runs, how to properly stop tablet-daemon to start at boot? Apr 21 08:50:44 remove it from run level Apr 21 08:50:54 sounds good to me Apr 21 08:51:12 ok Apr 21 08:56:12 Thats just awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MoJQGcozug Apr 21 08:56:22 GeneralAntilles: What's up with the login form? Apr 21 08:56:32 two guys analysing latest MS Ad :D Apr 21 08:56:46 X-Fade, it randomly clears the contents when I tab from one field to the next. Apr 21 08:57:03 Occasionally making it impossible to login. Apr 21 08:57:14 Yeah, it clears on entry. Apr 21 08:57:58 So if you tab back, it clears again. Apr 21 08:58:05 But why would you do that ;) Apr 21 08:58:19 wazd: Ah Apr 21 08:58:46 wazd: But, what is the deal about the IM for Canola project? Is it REALLY needed? I mean, pidgin does work... Apr 21 08:59:04 RST38h: same point here :) Apr 21 09:00:24 * RST38h wishes Canola guys would make their app smaller, more stable, and faster loading (40 seconds is ridiculous) Apr 21 09:01:16 http://s59.radikal.ru/i165/0904/02/f966e2e31d14.png <- My icon for "Mnemosyne for Maemo" btw :) Apr 21 09:01:21 It Apr 21 09:01:31 it's called "Pomni" :) Apr 21 09:01:53 X-Fade, think it would be interesting to experiment with Transifex (using mer & shared maemo packages as context) and maemo.org in advance of the harmattan stuff to give maemo.org & community experience? Apr 21 09:02:45 wazd: why not replace P with a cockroach? =) Apr 21 09:03:50 RST38h: with brainslug :) Apr 21 09:04:28 X-Fade, a variety of reasons. Apr 21 09:04:33 X-Fade, either way, it's broken. Apr 21 09:04:44 RST38h, worse, rtcomm works. Apr 21 09:04:59 RST38h, startup is a lot faster in recent releases. Apr 21 09:05:10 Once indexing is offloaded to Tracker it'll be even faster. Apr 21 09:05:15 General: 25 seconds. Apr 21 09:05:22 It is not indexing anything, I have that turned off Apr 21 09:05:29 Just plain loading Python libs Apr 21 09:05:39 25 != 40 Apr 21 09:05:43 Tried python-launcher? Apr 21 09:05:55 * RST38h never understood General's love for rtcomm and dislike to camel casing Apr 21 09:06:00 General: Yes, does not help Apr 21 09:06:23 General: It is 40 seconds "cold", 25 seconds consequent runs Apr 21 09:08:08 RST38h, camel casing is appropriate only where it's appropriate Apr 21 09:08:13 The wiki is not where it's appropriate. Apr 21 09:08:28 I like rtcomm because it works and it doesn't clutter up the place like Pidgin. Apr 21 09:09:02 Hello Apr 21 09:10:40 good morning Apr 21 09:11:34 Khertan, florian: heya Apr 21 09:11:43 hi wazd Apr 21 09:15:01 btw, I've checked new gmail for iphone/G1 with the tablet Apr 21 09:15:09 It's so dumb Apr 21 09:15:20 haha Apr 21 09:15:31 there is a new gmail css for iphone ? Apr 21 09:15:33 it's hardcoded to 320px width Apr 21 09:15:37 yep Apr 21 09:15:40 as the older Apr 21 09:15:50 jeez, thats 19th century! Apr 21 09:15:54 and all iPhone related things Apr 21 09:15:57 StsN800: Yeah, we really should look at what we could offer for doing community translations. Apr 21 09:16:35 But the dumbest thing is Apr 21 09:16:43 that it scales while loading Apr 21 09:16:49 scales pretty fine Apr 21 09:16:59 and then Bam! 320 Apr 21 09:19:08 So it means people even on the iphone or G1 are forced to use that stuff in portrait mode. Apr 21 09:19:18 heh Apr 21 09:20:14 I wonder how to type in portrait mode with G1 :) Apr 21 09:20:25 wazd: May a few statements to the default .css file help though? Apr 21 09:21:04 Fixed width is so silly. Apr 21 09:21:17 You're arbitrarily limiting your users for no reason. Apr 21 09:21:52 RST38h: Itdoesn't matter how you can fix this, matters that such a large company as Google, that caresbout standards'n'stuff, actually does that kind of crap :) Apr 21 09:25:53 wazd: Maybe they have a reason Apr 21 09:26:07 Maybe they implicitely do not want non-gphone users access it? Apr 21 09:26:41 RST38h: okay, but how G1 user can normally use it in landscape mode/type? Apr 21 09:29:11 wazd: http://www.everyjoe.com/thegadgetblog/files/2008/09/g1-phone.jpg Apr 21 09:29:28 that's how Apr 21 09:36:36 RST38h: I talk bout gmail :) Apr 21 09:37:17 http://www.mrmobileblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/200904081854.jpg Apr 21 09:38:39 wazd: Ah shit Apr 21 09:39:13 wazd: and it does not even scale to 320x240 as opposed to 240x320? Apr 21 09:39:27 RST38h: yep Apr 21 09:39:39 the guy who has done it ought to be whipped Apr 21 10:00:32 RST38h: http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/0904/0e/4013c5e6f9ad.jpg <- just raw 320 Apr 21 11:05:06 wazd, liqbase wasn't second - it was selected :) Apr 21 11:05:17 well, zachs proposal was accepted rather Apr 21 11:07:08 lcuk: gratz anyway :) Apr 21 11:07:26 lcuk: Don't know what does that mean, but cool anyway :D Apr 21 11:08:49 wazd, i did nothing for this, zach came to me with an idea for an app and it fitted in extremely well with the next few months of liqbase development Apr 21 11:29:58 I have one simple question for Nokia: Apr 21 11:30:07 What the _fuck_ is a "Sharing plug-in"?! Apr 21 11:30:39 sharing is caring Apr 21 11:30:50 GeneralAntilles: Gone, hopefully. It'll be an Ovi video plugin, an Ovi music plugin, an Ovi photo plugin and an Ovi chat plugin. Apr 21 11:31:06 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3844#c13 Apr 21 11:33:38 GeneralAntilles: Oh FFS. I saw andre's comment but hadn't seen qgil's Apr 21 11:36:31 tss, tss! :-P Apr 21 11:36:45 GeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3844#c15 Apr 21 11:37:39 X-Fade, what I said, but without the bile. ;) Apr 21 11:38:07 Hehe I try to be as nice as possible ;) Apr 21 11:38:29 GeneralAntilles: you asked from nokia, is here somebody who speaks behave of nokia? Apr 21 11:38:35 X-Fade, re: 4298, it seems like there's enough space to keep the breadcrumb there without having to pad the header down farther. Apr 21 11:38:55 thux, there are lots of Nokians, only very infrequently any who can speak on behalf of Nokia in an official capacity. Apr 21 11:39:03 and then only on certain specific subjects. Apr 21 11:39:05 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, but not on the front page? Apr 21 11:39:18 ok Apr 21 11:40:11 X-Fade, it seems like just reducing the padding/margins on the breadcrumbs should be enough. Apr 21 11:40:25 But that's just by a quick comparison of newstyle.maemo.org and newstyle.maemo.org/downloads Apr 21 11:40:27 Yeah, the answer to "what is a sharing plug-in" definitely leads to answers like "ovi". Apr 21 11:41:01 GeneralAntilles: yeah, but there was this other bug where Tim wanted more spacing between breadcrumb and top nav. That is why there is so much space now ;) Apr 21 11:41:05 andre___: I'm sure Nokia would love it if we populated it with thepiratebay.org plugins :) Apr 21 11:41:14 X-Fade, lol. Apr 21 11:41:25 Oh whore Apr 21 11:41:31 Comment's sitting in a mid-air Apr 21 11:41:33 Damn you, X-Fade! Apr 21 11:41:54 Jaffa, sounds more like Extras category to me than officially shipped stuff ;-) Apr 21 11:42:35 GeneralAntilles: Well then you don't have to apologize for your rude comment ;) Apr 21 11:43:01 Mmmm, bile :) Apr 21 11:43:15 * GeneralAntilles vomits. Apr 21 11:44:15 hola Apr 21 11:45:27 * andre___ offers another beer for breakfast to GeneralAntilles Apr 21 11:45:53 I'm a mean drunk, do you really want MORE bile? :P Apr 21 11:46:18 well, seems you're still quite productive when being drunk :-P Apr 21 11:47:29 Ovi is so silly Apr 21 11:48:19 Social networking that's limited to people who own Nokia products is about as ridiculous as it gets. Apr 21 11:48:26 GeneralAntilles: Well, I kind of like that I can take a picture and it is automatically added to my album etc. Apr 21 11:48:45 A Flickr plugin would be better. Apr 21 11:48:51 Well, there are ;) Apr 21 11:49:01 It is in my N95 by default. Apr 21 11:51:54 And ovi has an open API, IIRC? Apr 21 11:52:29 As yerga created pyshare for it, I think? Apr 21 11:59:15 I say we break down and just create a category for every Nokia brand. Apr 21 12:17:16 hi Apr 21 13:06:21 funny I didn't know I was online at home until I couldn't login at work Apr 21 13:07:18 lo afb Apr 21 13:07:27 how's it going? Apr 21 13:08:09 going good Mer is looking good btw Apr 21 13:08:31 ta Apr 21 13:08:50 moving nicely ahead6 Apr 21 13:09:11 lo rkirti Apr 21 13:09:30 StsN800, hello! Apr 21 13:10:09 anyone seen x-fade today? Apr 21 13:22:15 * AFBlack needs to find someone to donate a server hosting for Maemobox.org Apr 21 13:23:05 might be difficult Apr 21 13:23:12 AFBlack: He's in #maemo-meeting right now. Apr 21 13:23:41 yeah, everyone likes download off maemobox but not helping :) Apr 21 13:23:48 timsamoff: is he talking there now? Apr 21 13:24:08 AFBlack: Yes, we're in a maemo.org redesign meeting right now. Apr 21 13:24:31 ohh well I don't want to both your meeting Apr 21 13:25:37 ;) Apr 21 13:33:35 hello Apr 21 13:34:59 lo Apr 21 13:35:18 hey StsN800 .. still in poland? Apr 21 13:35:33 sts is on poland? Apr 21 13:35:35 someone probably stole your n800 from your place by now :) Apr 21 13:35:40 haha Apr 21 13:35:40 lol Apr 21 13:35:41 yup. package waiting for me Apr 21 13:35:49 where does your pkg wait? Apr 21 13:35:50 in post office Apr 21 13:35:58 how long do they keep it there? Apr 21 13:36:05 14 days Apr 21 13:36:20 picking it up friday Apr 21 13:36:50 well.. at least i know sending stuff international usps works :) Apr 21 13:36:51 haha Apr 21 13:37:49 castle is an awesome show Apr 21 13:38:04 bbl Apr 21 13:43:47 alterego? Apr 21 13:46:01 * svu_ feels it is time to bury ruby on maemo publicly... and mourn Apr 21 13:46:13 hi.. is sudser available on os2007, too? Apr 21 13:46:13 *g* Apr 21 13:47:54 i mean the package in the programmanager called sudser .. Apr 21 13:50:10 svu: Don't mourn too much, another scripting-language-of-the-day will come up in the next month or two Apr 21 13:50:27 rst *g* Apr 21 13:50:35 I dont think so Apr 21 13:50:43 Hey, Sts, how is .PL? Apr 21 13:51:02 lol Apr 21 13:51:04 the perl tld Apr 21 13:51:21 woglinde: "You think you see no giant carnivorous hamster, but It exists!" Apr 21 13:51:45 rst In russia I bet Apr 21 13:52:29 woglinde: yes, soothe yourself with this thought... =) Apr 21 13:52:48 hi udovdh Apr 21 13:52:54 i love nexenta.. i sure wish it would run on my artigo Apr 21 13:52:57 hello woglinde Apr 21 13:53:16 * Khertan1 has finally understand how qt works Apr 21 13:53:25 khertan gratz Apr 21 13:53:29 a little different approch from gtk Apr 21 13:53:47 khertan yes you dont have thousands of _inits() Apr 21 13:54:13 woglinde: in python we don't have thousands of _inits() Apr 21 13:54:18 :) Apr 21 13:54:29 gtk needs to go away :) Apr 21 13:55:03 to be honest at this time i didn't see any advantage to use qt instead of gtk on the nits Apr 21 13:55:17 instead of some developpers advantage Apr 21 13:55:28 s/instead/excepts Apr 21 13:55:39 it looks better Apr 21 13:55:46 macer yes Apr 21 13:55:56 macer : not really ... Apr 21 13:56:08 currently gtk look better on maemo than qt Apr 21 13:56:13 khertan hm I like to prgoramm in c++ more Apr 21 13:56:14 i think it does.. at the very least the apps seem more uniform Apr 21 13:56:28 like always having ok and cancel on teh same sides Apr 21 13:56:53 "at the very least the apps " << yep white widget on white box Apr 21 13:57:01 all things is white Apr 21 13:57:01 but then again i'm sure that's a dev thing.. but it seems that they don't pay attention to it :) Apr 21 13:57:19 yeah... plus. i don't know what it is.. but it looks old and dated Apr 21 13:57:27 like an advanced windows 3.11 :) Apr 21 13:57:55 Macer ... depending on theme Apr 21 13:57:58 macer nope Apr 21 13:58:17 antonio works hard on it Apr 21 13:59:40 well. i'm just saying with qt you could see an obvious advancement in kde Apr 21 13:59:51 with gtk the apps look like they're mid 90s :) Apr 21 14:00:23 Macer ... hum ... Apr 21 14:00:33 really ? Apr 21 14:00:38 lol Apr 21 14:00:45 the default gtk theme is pretty bad Apr 21 14:00:53 the default Apr 21 14:00:55 so you mean gtk looks now how kde looked in version1 Apr 21 14:01:01 but look at the default qt theme on nit Apr 21 14:01:05 it s worst Apr 21 14:01:14 sometimes I see people post screenshots of gtk apps using the default theme Apr 21 14:01:19 I cannot understand those people Apr 21 14:01:31 now the default gnome theme is pretty Apr 21 14:01:34 http://khertan.net/softwares/mCalendar/screenshot-5.png Apr 21 14:01:38 it s a gtk apps Apr 21 14:01:39 much prettier than any of the kde themes I've ever seen Apr 21 14:01:39 Linux has a problem with shitty defaults. Apr 21 14:01:44 * mgedmin puts on asbestos underwear Apr 21 14:01:55 KDE 4's default theme is gag-worthy. Apr 21 14:02:06 generall you mean the kernel? Apr 21 14:02:27 cde looks like 80s Apr 21 14:02:55 hum ... sorry for having launching this troll Apr 21 14:03:08 khertan no prob Apr 21 14:03:42 so to close the things ... i ll suggest you some great theme for your gnome desktop : http://francois.vogelweith.com/ Apr 21 14:06:15 about candy, is new tablet going to be 3d accelerated? that compiz etc will work? Apr 21 14:06:42 It's using Clutter Apr 21 14:06:54 with gles Apr 21 14:07:02 ^ Apr 21 14:07:03 this should be answer enough Apr 21 14:07:27 clutter ang gles I mean Apr 21 14:07:27 thux the new tablet uses a clutter based compositing manager Apr 21 14:07:29 and Apr 21 14:07:57 re lcuk Apr 21 14:07:58 then 3d yes Apr 21 14:08:26 hi lol Apr 21 14:08:33 and gaming is more advanced too Apr 21 14:08:38 yes thux, ymmv as to how to get 3d into your app Apr 21 14:09:12 but im not here now lol Apr 21 14:09:17 bbl Apr 21 14:09:45 lcuk: get 3D in apps is really easy with 4D Glasses and Some Vectrex like Filter Apr 21 14:09:55 3D glasses Apr 21 14:10:29 Khertan1, wouldnt the edges of the cubes chafe on your face a bit? Apr 21 14:10:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Vectrex.jpg Apr 21 14:10:56 http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Vectrex.jpg Apr 21 14:11:03 sorry here is the right link Apr 21 14:11:17 tuxracer on tablets then Apr 21 14:13:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbGRkdHPqlc << the best game i ve ever play Apr 21 14:17:30 khertan lol the gamepad Apr 21 14:17:45 yeah but the gamepad was robust Apr 21 14:18:08 this was a very old console ... the first one to not done graphic pixel by pixel Apr 21 14:18:18 his name vectrex ... come from vectoriel Apr 21 14:18:46 the screen display line ... not pix Apr 21 14:18:47 :) Apr 21 14:19:13 Motorola 68A09 cadencé à 1.6 MHz Apr 21 14:19:18 this is the cpu Apr 21 14:19:23 with 1Ko of ram Apr 21 14:19:31 and 8Ko for the BIOS :) Apr 21 14:19:45 and in this 8Ko there is the game minefield Apr 21 14:19:49 uh and they have rtype Apr 21 14:19:51 as game Apr 21 14:19:56 Hostile enviroment in deep space! Apr 21 14:19:58 screen : Samsung 240RB40 noir et blanc vectoriel Apr 21 14:20:13 it s not rtype ... Apr 21 14:20:20 scramble Apr 21 14:20:23 yes yes Apr 21 14:20:23 it s better ! Apr 21 14:20:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpYOy2qp9OI Apr 21 14:21:48 hm why this console was no sucess Apr 21 14:21:58 too expensive Apr 21 14:22:07 never heard of it before Apr 21 14:22:10 :) Apr 21 14:22:47 she was made in 1982 Apr 21 14:23:17 at this time where only a few elitist people own there own micro computer Apr 21 14:23:44 lol Apr 21 14:23:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vMliUZxQeU&feature=related Apr 21 14:24:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_video_game_crash_of_1983 Apr 21 14:26:26 i like how they do colors :) Apr 21 14:27:21 but in your video this is not the original gamepad Apr 21 14:29:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectrex Apr 21 14:29:52 khertan it is explained in the wiki acrticle Apr 21 14:31:09 Vectrex was too weird Apr 21 14:31:27 okay Apr 21 14:31:30 Its failure had nothing to do with the videogame crash, it was just too weird Apr 21 14:31:31 will go home Apr 21 14:32:45 RST38h: are you kidding ? Apr 21 14:32:56 Khertan: No Apr 21 14:33:35 bye till later Apr 21 14:33:39 haha ... Apr 21 14:33:55 this was far away better than some actual console ! Apr 21 14:34:00 Khertan: See Virtual Boy for the more recent example of the same Apr 21 14:34:30 virtual boy is a failure because each time someone use it more than 10 minutes he goes ill Apr 21 14:34:45 That too Apr 21 14:35:54 you can get ill by using a vectrex : Apr 21 14:36:45 Khertan: you can get color blind though, as it had no chrominance or luminance controls Apr 21 14:36:58 lol Apr 21 14:37:21 All in all, it was an amusing piece of hardware, pretty much like VB Apr 21 14:37:22 did you have really try it ? Apr 21 14:37:28 Yea Apr 21 14:37:43 hum ... are you sure this is a vectrex ? Apr 21 14:37:56 And we did a similar thing with a standard oscilloscope back in high school times Apr 21 14:38:15 Khertan; Well, it looked like one, seen it at a flea market Apr 21 14:38:45 yes so you never really play with it Apr 21 14:39:06 Khertan: It was turned on and people played with it Apr 21 14:39:11 as i ve play with one when i was younger ... Apr 21 14:39:36 Khertan: I started playing on an MSX Apr 21 14:39:55 and really ... it s really better than the other things that exists Apr 21 14:39:58 Khertan: So, I measure most these systems by MSX standards Apr 21 14:40:41 Khertan: Well, it is a vector based device, so it is DIFFERENT. As to being better, I wouldn't bet on it Apr 21 14:41:50 Nostalgia is the most important metric for determining the relative awesomeness of old consoles. ;) Apr 21 14:42:56 That is another department where women do better than hardware though =) Apr 21 14:45:01 Anyone knows what happens with x86 rol eax,cl when cl>31? Apr 21 14:45:41 found it., ok Apr 21 14:48:48 RST38h: rol, eax, cl what those cpu commands? Apr 21 14:49:20 rol is an x86 assembler instruction Apr 21 14:49:28 ok Apr 21 14:49:32 eax is what is known as "accumulator" in Intel world Apr 21 14:49:52 cl is just an 8bit register specifying shift amount Apr 21 14:50:30 * mgedmin wonders if there was ever an instruction set with a lol instruction Apr 21 14:50:49 Nope Apr 21 14:51:15 But there was HCF, if that strikes your fancy Apr 21 14:53:17 persistent urban rumor sayz (heard it many times) that linus went to help intel with p4 instructions, i never believed that thou Apr 21 14:54:05 Linux went to Transmeta, not Intel Apr 21 14:54:30 But the rumor may have some grounds in that pesky divizion bug Apr 21 14:54:30 that is true Apr 21 14:54:55 thux: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug Apr 21 14:55:15 Actually, wrong bug, wait =) Apr 21 14:55:32 bye Apr 21 14:55:52 Here, enjoy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F00f Apr 21 14:56:13 thanks Apr 21 15:07:04 btw cause low level experts around, i ask something off topic which has bother me :) got two years old lap turion64 which got acpi dsdt bug, some say purposely written (phoenix bios) bother linux works with vista, is there a way go around dsdt bugs? (tried all acpi and apic options in grub) Apr 21 15:09:51 Get yourself a geniune Intel-based laptop? =) Apr 21 15:11:24 actually it looks like this is a chipset bug Apr 21 15:12:03 ok Apr 21 15:13:58 many great engineers at intel Apr 21 15:14:26 but i will never forgive 8088 Apr 21 15:15:00 if i use linux all the fans are full speed all the time cause fan control ain't work Apr 21 15:15:07 <|dl9pf|> thux: if you find/found a correct dsdt, you can load it with the kernel Apr 21 15:16:58 |dl9pf|: yes they say that can even rewrite buggy parts if knows acpi language Apr 21 15:18:10 pupnik: Is 8088 any worse than the rest of them? =) Apr 21 15:19:19 it turned me off real coding when i was a wee lad Apr 21 15:41:13 pupnik: well, things have not improved much =) Apr 21 15:41:27 pupnik: with x86 architecture, I mean, not with you =) Apr 21 15:42:24 both Apr 21 15:42:39 but its all ok Apr 21 15:42:51 we are imperfect Apr 21 15:47:00 how can a os2007 user execute a command as root? Apr 21 15:47:21 you can install becomeroot... Apr 21 15:47:30 by getting root access using one of the documented methods, one of them being becomeroot Apr 21 15:47:35 where can i get it? Apr 21 15:47:37 and osso-xterm Apr 21 15:47:52 I think installing openssh-server on os2007 also let you set the root password, or was that new in os2008? Apr 21 15:48:04 openssh is the best solution IMHO Apr 21 15:48:25 I need it because someone of the german maemo forum (n800.de) has trouble with his tablet Apr 21 15:48:37 * qwerty12 likes sudser for OS2008 Apr 21 15:48:50 RST38h: I just need the easiest way ;) Apr 21 15:48:59 mgedmin: openssh-server let you do that on os2007 too. Apr 21 15:49:15 sudser is fine, but not available for os2007 Apr 21 15:49:18 ;) Apr 21 15:49:28 Er, yes, hence the OS2008 ;) Apr 21 15:49:52 so the package is called becomeroot? Apr 21 15:50:17 has I can remember the user is able to get root with sudo gainroot right? Apr 21 15:51:09 .. Apr 21 15:54:10 there were two versions of becomeroot, 0.1 and 0.2 Apr 21 15:54:17 they used different ways of granting root access Apr 21 15:54:29 one let you sudo su, the other let you sudo gainroot, IIRC Apr 21 15:54:48 sudo gainroot is also what you can use if you enable r&d mode with the flasher Apr 21 15:54:58 thopiekar: ssh is the easiest way as you can log in remotely Apr 21 15:55:27 thopiekar: otherwise, it is either virtual keyboard or whatever n810 abomination is called Apr 21 15:55:42 RST38h: I don't think it'S the easiest way for a beginner.. Apr 21 15:56:07 the user has joined the forum the last days.. Apr 21 15:56:36 ok Apr 21 16:10:11 "beginner" and "root access" don't exactly mesh Apr 21 16:22:05 mgedmin: :P Apr 21 16:29:41 on the other hand, he has to brick his tablet for the first time, hasn't he? Apr 21 17:06:35 someone have a tip for generate a code for base64 image (whit space at rigth place for control files) ??? Apr 21 17:06:45 uuencode -m Apr 21 17:07:16 and what path Apr 21 17:08:04 man uuencode Apr 21 17:11:43 so is root@pubuntu:/home# x.png uuencode -m Apr 21 17:12:07 ? Apr 21 17:12:25 mmm Apr 21 17:12:49 you probably want to start by reading some introductory book on Unix Apr 21 17:13:29 iam better learning when i practice Apr 21 17:13:31 h/h/ Apr 21 17:13:52 but tx Apr 21 17:14:05 practice running a program called "man" then Apr 21 17:14:25 "man uuencode" will tell you all you need to know about uuencode Apr 21 17:18:39 a programm from the stoneage Apr 21 17:23:32 it works. Apr 21 17:24:55 http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/9341_Will_the_Visible_Operating_Sys.php Apr 21 17:25:05 rst I know Apr 21 17:25:25 woglinde, has to be good if the druids used it to program their stone-circles Apr 21 17:25:29 bug-free :) Apr 21 17:35:43 dpkg-buildpackage: failure: tail of debian/changelog gave error exit status 1 ???? Apr 21 17:36:14 what this mean Apr 21 17:36:29 that the debian/changelog file has an error Apr 21 17:36:44 Or it doesn't exist... Apr 21 17:36:54 qwerty12 right Apr 21 17:37:26 this files is very necessary? for build a pack Apr 21 17:37:32 yes Apr 21 17:37:36 ok Apr 21 17:37:55 and how i can know my error in if he exist already Apr 21 17:38:03 hm new ubuntu in 2 days Apr 21 17:38:22 netbook remix next week Apr 21 17:38:46 and kernel will be .24 for poulsbo chipset I bet Apr 21 17:38:49 about compiling programs, c Apr 21 17:38:55 ups Apr 21 17:39:21 can i do same than in pc? Apr 21 17:39:28 thux what? Apr 21 17:39:38 configure make Apr 21 17:39:49 make install Apr 21 17:39:54 configure make runs on many platforms Apr 21 17:40:14 in tablet too? Apr 21 17:40:26 if you like sm yes Apr 21 17:42:12 what is the problem? geting through configure? Apr 21 17:42:13 noki Apr 21 17:42:15 ops Apr 21 17:42:25 thux the speed Apr 21 17:42:32 ah Apr 21 17:47:23 i cant find where is my error in the changelog file Apr 21 17:47:36 maybe i not save it in good way Apr 21 17:48:23 guest diff it with a working one Apr 21 17:50:52 woglinde: theoritically i could pull firefox source to tablet and start to configure? would i get binaries that run at some point? no architechture problems? Apr 21 17:51:31 theoretical it should work Apr 21 17:51:46 but you need 2 gb extened card Apr 21 17:51:52 practically busybox is a pita Apr 21 17:52:39 sts haha type bash Apr 21 17:52:45 *ducks and hide* Apr 21 18:00:31 thux: theoretically yes, practically don't Apr 21 18:01:26 cause busybox? Apr 21 18:01:44 and sanity Apr 21 18:43:40 'lo all Apr 21 18:44:12 i've got a n770, had it for a long time, but its been a while since i've updated... whats the latest OS I can run on it? Apr 21 18:45:13 os2008he, or mer Apr 21 18:45:28 cool, thanks Apr 21 18:45:32 gonna update tonight Apr 21 18:46:05 a-gps Apr 21 18:46:10 damnit Apr 21 18:46:13 again Apr 21 18:48:50 CutMeOwnThroat: dibbler? Apr 21 18:49:56 StsN800, how is going the promotion of maemo/mozilla event ? Apr 21 18:53:32 VDVsx, not sure. would be nicer with more mer peeps Apr 21 18:57:32 CutMeOwnThroat, have you gotten gps locks to come down in time Apr 21 18:58:09 StsN800, I just spamed some LinkedIn mobile groups with the event :P, probably is there some DK people, promotion at the university that will held the event will be probably good to attract more people too. Apr 21 18:58:41 VDVsx, k sounds good Apr 21 19:27:08 robtaylor, saussageinnabun? Apr 21 19:27:57 today with free mustard! Apr 21 19:28:08 Shadow__X? Apr 21 19:28:32 ah, no, just fooling around with it for the first time Apr 21 19:28:49 that a-gps should have gone into google, but the mouse moved Apr 21 19:31:52 ah ok Apr 21 19:32:49 trying to figure what software one should use for the gps Apr 21 19:34:41 agps will help aquistion times Apr 21 19:35:23 it gives a closer area to search for gps satellite Apr 21 19:35:33 lol . . . http://www.raiden.net/articles/big_things_come_in_little_packages_an_overview_of_the_maemo_project/ Apr 21 19:35:48 hello ! Apr 21 19:36:22 stskeep: your repository is down ? Apr 21 19:36:39 It's so wrong, I can't help but think it's satire. Apr 21 19:46:15 Hello 2 :) Apr 21 19:57:50 moo khertan Apr 21 20:01:38 GeneralAntilles: I like the way he gets upset on ITT when Gizmodo or someone gets a new device to play with and he, as a serious blogg^Wjournalist, doesn't. Apr 21 20:01:54 Oh, Comic Sans MS. I didn't even know I had it on this box. How irritating. Apr 21 20:02:07 Haha Apr 21 20:02:46 * RST38h likes Comic Sans MS. Ho ho ho Apr 21 20:02:59 (*not* everywhere though =)) Apr 21 20:03:01 Jaffa, it's got to be satire. Apr 21 20:03:05 GeneralAntilles: Oh god, that's almost like The Onion does Maemo. Apr 21 20:03:17 GeneralAntilles: From his ITT persona, I'd doubt it. Apr 21 20:03:28 Yeah, I doubt it too Apr 21 20:03:31 but I can't believe it. Apr 21 20:03:34 * Jaffa also likes the hideously broken character encoding Apr 21 20:03:48 (since I seem to spend every other week diagnosing them at work ;-)) Apr 21 20:05:30 I wonder if my freedesktop.org bug was ever fixed. Apr 21 20:06:15 any info somewhere about zephir Apr 21 20:06:38 Guest4105_304: Xephyr? (The nested X server allowing you to see the SDK environment on a box) Apr 21 20:06:53 Of course not https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18218 Apr 21 20:06:59 Not exactly confidence inspiring. Apr 21 20:07:36 yes jaffa or better then that iam on ubu Apr 21 20:08:57 Guest4105_304: `apt-get install xserver-xephyr' should do it for you Apr 21 20:09:54 tx Apr 21 20:13:04 i wonder if MIDs do psm. Apr 21 20:13:57 StsN800, who else implements WiFi PSM? Apr 21 20:14:02 I'd really love to know. Apr 21 20:14:33 After buying this Mini 9, I've decided that I can't live without tablet-grade powersaving. Apr 21 20:14:49 yeah - i really wonder Apr 21 20:15:16 the psm based on system activity is surprisingily logic Apr 21 20:15:19 Honestly, I doubt there'd be much point since they've got that giant Atom in there. ;) Apr 21 20:15:38 I mean, Intel's designed it to be turned off when not in use. Apr 21 20:15:48 true Apr 21 20:16:33 Which has got to be the silliest thing ever. Apr 21 20:18:04 ga you have a mini9 with pouslbo? Apr 21 20:18:05 haha Apr 21 20:18:45 pouslbo? Apr 21 20:18:58 poulsbo Apr 21 20:19:00 gma500 Apr 21 20:19:12 Ah, OK. Apr 21 20:19:18 It was $240 Apr 21 20:19:23 I needed an x86 machine. Apr 21 20:19:45 and now you are stick with kernel .24 Apr 21 20:19:56 Er? Apr 21 20:20:05 It's on kernel 28 or 29 at the moment. Apr 21 20:20:07 or is vesa enough for you Apr 21 20:20:45 hello, I created account on garage.maemo.org and I am waiting over 30 minutes already to log in on maemo.org but nutin! Apr 21 20:20:51 any comments? Apr 21 20:21:19 yeah, it was a nice day today Apr 21 20:21:44 woglinde, 2.6.28 Apr 21 20:21:53 woglinde, I think your info's off. Apr 21 20:22:26 not really Apr 21 20:22:40 if you want the cool feature the poulsbo really can do Apr 21 20:22:48 you are sticked with .24 Apr 21 20:22:49 woglinde, well, what you're saying and what I'm seeing don't mesh. Apr 21 20:26:08 Well, either you're wrong or it's a GMA 950. Apr 21 20:26:36 ga hm Apr 21 20:26:41 then mini10 was it Apr 21 20:26:49 let me see Apr 21 20:27:50 ah sorry Apr 21 20:28:00 damned why I mixed them up Apr 21 20:28:22 * woglinde goes in the corner Apr 21 20:30:07 v6sa, it takes a little time. Apr 21 20:30:15 Patience is key. Apr 21 20:30:18 :D Apr 21 20:30:23 approximately? Apr 21 20:30:38 v6sa, alternatively, make sure you're not capitalizing your username. Apr 21 20:30:52 I didn't do that Apr 21 20:56:08 hi Apr 21 21:11:35 god I hate panucci Apr 21 21:12:27 Panucci's Pizza? Apr 21 21:13:18 no, the audio player Apr 21 21:13:28 lol Apr 21 21:14:13 how the fuck can I add several files to the queue? Apr 21 21:14:46 I downloaded ecamerone from librivox... Apr 21 21:15:05 Decamerone, even Apr 21 21:16:31 and smarter ones of you may know/look up how many days (chapterss/mp3 files) it consists of... Apr 21 21:17:28 What's special about Panucci? Apr 21 21:19:03 I'm starting to wonder it myself... Apr 21 21:19:51 Well, if it's just an audio player, why not use Media player or something? Apr 21 21:20:08 but it has resuming and you can do bookmarks on a particular spot on the file Apr 21 21:20:29 Ah, that'd be what's special. Apr 21 21:20:54 so in theory it's nice with podcasts and audiobooks Apr 21 21:21:16 I don't know any other bookmarking audio players. Apr 21 21:22:22 the nokia audiobook player for s60 is nicee but i'd much rather use my n800 Apr 21 21:28:54 ho my god ! i can t install mplayer on Mer! Apr 21 21:29:00 :) Apr 21 23:17:11 i want an alt-tab equicalent Apr 21 23:17:17 valent Apr 21 23:17:54 maybe xmodmap Apr 21 23:18:09 ctrl-left/right Apr 22 00:40:14 help! i deletted my archives folder Apr 22 00:40:43 i need roott access in gftp Apr 22 00:41:35 bye Apr 22 00:44:38 hi Apr 22 00:46:10 i need help Apr 22 00:46:31 hey folks Apr 22 00:47:37 so... I have an Elektex fabric keyboard, and it shows up as a storage medium in HFM, but transfers fail Apr 22 00:47:52 how do you get root access in Gftp Apr 22 00:47:53 it seems odd that a keyboard might have storage Apr 22 00:48:03 any ideas? Apr 22 00:48:13 no clue Apr 22 00:48:32 do u know how to get root access in Gftp Apr 22 00:49:10 root access for the program, or on the remote machine's fs? Apr 22 00:49:22 th program Apr 22 00:49:25 the Apr 22 00:49:50 run it from the console? Apr 22 00:50:10 what console? Apr 22 00:50:25 u mean terminal Apr 22 00:51:44 yep Apr 22 00:51:50 I accidentally deleted my /var/apt/cache/archives/ directory Apr 22 00:52:03 and I need to make a new one Apr 22 00:52:07 Maemo doesn't have a graphical sudo app, like gksudo or kdesudo Apr 22 00:52:08 oh Apr 22 00:52:10 wait Apr 22 00:52:20 why do you need to us Gftp, then? Apr 22 00:52:30 is the deleted folder on your NIT? Apr 22 00:52:37 ???????? Apr 22 00:52:46 I dont know Apr 22 00:53:21 I used terminal to rm -r it Apr 22 00:53:34 so I don't think its still there Apr 22 00:54:26 but this is on your tablet? Apr 22 00:54:32 not another computer? Apr 22 00:54:42 yes, my tablet Apr 22 00:54:44 okay Apr 22 00:54:51 N800 Apr 22 00:54:58 do you have the rootsh package (or similar) installed Apr 22 00:55:01 os2008 Apr 22 00:55:04 no Apr 22 00:55:30 okay Apr 22 00:55:38 apt is broken so I can't install anything Apr 22 00:55:40 right Apr 22 00:55:57 so how do u get root in gftp Apr 22 00:56:04 what happens when you type sudo gainroot into the console? Apr 22 00:56:15 here, let me try Apr 22 00:56:21 I'll brb - I have to go out of range Apr 22 00:56:27 hold on a minute or so Apr 22 00:56:43 ok Apr 22 00:57:49 I13 1e2 kcccccctcccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyg v6vqqw[w444444 Apr 22 00:57:50 44444444444444444444444444444444upo6690irr#iirpjjjjjjjjl1mb;ct Apr 22 00:58:06 u ok? Apr 22 00:59:29 note to self Apr 22 00:59:35 hey Apr 22 00:59:50 turn OFF fabric keyboard BEFORE rolling it up and putting it in pocket Apr 22 00:59:55 >_< Apr 22 01:00:10 ok, root shell is enabled Apr 22 01:00:28 okay Apr 22 01:00:43 try this Apr 22 01:01:06 ok Apr 22 01:01:40 mkdir -p /var/cache/apt/archives Apr 22 01:01:53 did you just delete the archives folder? Apr 22 01:02:03 pretty much Apr 22 01:02:04 or further up the tree? Apr 22 01:02:06 okay Apr 22 01:02:16 hopefully that helps Apr 22 01:02:29 if not, I'll be back in a little bit Apr 22 01:02:45 thanx Apr 22 01:43:06 . Apr 22 02:06:51 nice, fn+left/right dpad switches between xterms Apr 22 02:09:54 pupnik_: Oh? Apr 22 02:09:56 that is nice Apr 22 02:10:01 I didn't know that... Apr 22 02:10:29 although, given the d-pad placement, that's not all that useful :S Apr 22 02:11:47 i was trying to find smth to switch between all apps though Apr 22 02:12:12 i might remap fn to the right shift Apr 22 02:12:25 pupnik_: I think there is a key for that, but I can't remember if there is, or what it might be Apr 22 02:12:57 * jaem is liking his new BT keyboard Apr 22 02:13:04 which one? Apr 22 02:13:11 the Elektex fabric keyboard Apr 22 02:13:52 it will take a bit of getting used to, but I can type well enough that within the first half an hour, I mostly got the hang of it Apr 22 02:14:08 and I received in trade for something I got free in the first place, so... Apr 22 02:14:54 I don't know if you were around, but earlier I forgot to turn it off before rolling it up, and typed a whole bunch of gibberish into #maemo from my pocket Apr 22 02:14:58 oops Apr 22 02:16:29 yeah saw that Apr 22 02:16:32 I might seriously try GNOME 3 if it's Qt-based. Apr 22 02:16:40 luke-jr: um... Apr 22 02:16:42 forgot jaem was jaem_n810 Apr 22 02:16:59 luke-jr: isn't that called KDE4? :P Apr 22 02:17:06 jaem: no, KDE 4 is not GNOME Apr 22 02:17:10 pupnik_: different accounts Apr 22 02:17:12 and KDE 4 is getting worse and worse Apr 22 02:17:17 luke-jr: obviously Apr 22 02:17:18 I was kidding Apr 22 02:17:20 4.2 has a hard requirement on MySQL Apr 22 02:17:28 but the idea of a Qt-based GNOME seems amusing Apr 22 02:17:35 although it would be interesting Apr 22 02:17:40 jaem: no excuse for GTK+ anymore Apr 22 02:17:42 Qt is LGPL now Apr 22 02:17:57 and open to contributions w/o copyright assignment Apr 22 02:18:31 but now suffers from KDE going to crap Apr 22 02:18:33 luke-jr: without getting into it, I think KDE 4 has made good and bad decisions, but I first tried it because it was something new and exciting, as opposed to GNOME, which never seems different between releases Apr 22 02:18:52 jaem: yes, I like KDE 4 a lot in various ways Apr 22 02:18:56 what do you define as "going to crap"? Apr 22 02:19:01 but the PIM module is horrible now Apr 22 02:19:09 jaem: the MySQL dep is a big one Apr 22 02:19:16 luke-jr: PIM could use some serious work, for sure Apr 22 02:19:19 also, the calendar/todo list doesn't work at all Apr 22 02:19:26 or at least didn't last time I dared try it (4.1 IIRC) Apr 22 02:19:40 KDE moves fast Apr 22 02:19:45 meinproc4 eats a ton of memory too Apr 22 02:19:51 the KDEPIM is a heck of a lot better now Apr 22 02:19:52 no clue why, it's jsut an XML processor Apr 22 02:20:06 good, but the MySQL dependency still is a killer negative Apr 22 02:20:11 hrm Apr 22 02:20:15 and it's scheduled to get worse in 4.3 Apr 22 02:20:17 oh? Apr 22 02:20:24 how so? Apr 22 02:20:26 at least IN THEORY you can disable the MySQL dep Apr 22 02:20:27 with 4.2 Apr 22 02:20:31 but with 4.3, no way no how Apr 22 02:20:47 what's wrong with MySQL? Apr 22 02:21:04 um, it's huge, poor in standards-compliance, and eats memory? Apr 22 02:21:04 I'm not arguing with you, but I'm interested in your position Apr 22 02:21:07 ah Apr 22 02:21:17 even an empty MySQL db requires over 100 MB of disk space Apr 22 02:21:36 well, I can't speak to that, but my Arch/KDEmod install is pretty slim Apr 22 02:21:49 oh, and the MySQL dep's purpose is jsut retarded Apr 22 02:21:50 it's a CACHE Apr 22 02:21:51 what's MySQL a dep for, again? Apr 22 02:22:00 for PIM data Apr 22 02:22:09 oh, as an Akonadi backend? Apr 22 02:22:10 right Apr 22 02:22:12 yes Apr 22 02:22:13 * jaem remembers Apr 22 02:22:14 the only one Apr 22 02:24:05 on an aside, is there a list of popular forum tutorials/guides from itT anywhere? I keep hearing of interesting apps and tweaks that I've somehow overlooked for months Apr 22 02:24:21 eh, I'm just installing Gentoo ☺ Apr 22 02:24:28 hehe Apr 22 02:24:29 hey guys im back :) Apr 22 02:24:34 on your NIT? :P Apr 22 02:24:35 hey xnt Apr 22 02:24:36 the sky is the limit from there Apr 22 02:24:38 N810 Apr 22 02:24:43 oh my Apr 22 02:24:45 hey Apr 22 02:24:50 s/the sky/RAM/ Apr 22 02:25:12 jaem: kdelibs finished a few hours ago Apr 22 02:25:22 working on boost now Apr 22 02:25:31 luke-jr: finished building, you mean? Apr 22 02:25:34 yes Apr 22 02:25:36 ah Apr 22 02:25:58 I don't mind building apps from source, but I like my precompiled binaries Apr 22 02:26:01 that's why I use Arch Apr 22 02:26:05 the best of both worlds Apr 22 02:26:15 or at least, a good compromise Apr 22 02:26:19 Arch runs on N810? Apr 22 02:26:21 no Apr 22 02:26:24 but I wish it did Apr 22 02:26:39 I'm building my stuff with -Os ☺ Apr 22 02:26:47 and some other memory/size optimizations Apr 22 02:27:25 it would be a good fit I think, considering its slimness, but that's not in line with Arch's goals, so it likely won't happen Apr 22 02:27:48 which is kind of too bad, IMO Apr 22 02:27:57 jaem: b-man ported Ubuntu Apr 22 02:28:09 :) Apr 22 02:28:12 luke-jr: I know, and that's decent, but it's not really the same Apr 22 02:28:12 last I heard he was working on OS X Apr 22 02:28:16 * jaem high fives b-man Apr 22 02:28:22 last I heard, he was working on Vista Apr 22 02:28:23 lol Apr 22 02:28:27 >_< Apr 22 02:28:29 that was a joke Apr 22 02:28:31 I think Apr 22 02:28:32 ö Apr 22 02:28:34 no X Apr 22 02:28:34 luke-jr: I'm aware Apr 22 02:28:38 D Apr 22 02:28:44 b-man: try Plan 9 next! Apr 22 02:28:53 lol Apr 22 02:29:25 b-man: you're cross-compiling, btw? Apr 22 02:29:27 it was a joke ;) Apr 22 02:29:29 or native? Apr 22 02:29:35 native Apr 22 02:29:41 b-man: how did you link qt-webkit? Apr 22 02:30:38 I had to copy my rootfs to my amd64 box and use qemu to link :x Apr 22 02:30:39 is Midori available for Maemo, or do you have to run it from a chroot? Apr 22 02:30:47 i didn't, i used the upstream ubuntu 9.04 as a base for ubuntu-n8x0 Apr 22 02:30:58 b-man: upstream had ARM already? Apr 22 02:31:04 yes Apr 22 02:31:08 armv6j? Apr 22 02:31:17 yup :) Apr 22 02:31:17 or are you using armv4 stuff? Apr 22 02:31:24 armv6 Apr 22 02:31:29 ö Apr 22 02:31:34 :) Apr 22 02:32:01 wish someone would pass a law saying if we buy hardware we have a right to the specs for them >.> Apr 22 02:32:14 yeah, but it's not going to happen Apr 22 02:32:21 XD Apr 22 02:32:26 :/ Apr 22 02:32:36 the FSF should just buy out a country and do things like that Apr 22 02:32:43 RMS, president of GNUtopia Apr 22 02:33:01 too bad you can't do things like that :( Apr 22 02:33:14 * jaem wants his own country Apr 22 02:33:37 jaem: :P Apr 22 02:34:10 i think tear has .. mem leak Apr 22 02:34:17 jaem: RMS is not trustworthy Apr 22 02:34:23 jaem: also, RMS supports closed hardware **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 22 02:59:57 2009