**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 28 03:00:03 2009 Apr 28 03:00:17 could be a wifi power saving issue Apr 28 03:00:38 wooh Apr 28 03:00:38 ;p Apr 28 03:00:53 johnx: what tablet you have? :) Apr 28 03:01:05 thanks for your help, although im not a big fan of getting something to work and having no idea how Apr 28 03:01:08 ;p Apr 28 03:01:22 if it fails later, look at wifi psm Apr 28 03:01:23 zakkm, n800 Apr 28 03:01:30 alright Apr 28 03:01:52 z4chh: you check out knots? :) Apr 28 03:02:04 coolest app ever :D Apr 28 03:02:07 johnx, from a long time n800 user and recent n810 owner...i say getting an n810 is worth it ;p Apr 28 03:02:12 zakkm, no what is it? Apr 28 03:02:17 z4chh, why? Apr 28 03:02:20 it lets you share your media from your computer Apr 28 03:02:23 and view it on your tablet Apr 28 03:02:29 it transcodes while you start video Apr 28 03:02:35 computer would transcode on-the-fly Apr 28 03:02:52 nice ui on tablet and such Apr 28 03:02:59 i want a n810 :D Apr 28 03:03:09 so expensive Apr 28 03:03:53 back later, gotta eat dinner Apr 28 03:04:02 oh fun Apr 28 03:04:11 retarded telepathy-gabble eats 99% CPU Apr 28 03:04:15 any way to kill it off? Apr 28 03:04:18 (permenantly) Apr 28 03:04:19 whats gabby? Apr 28 03:04:32 hey you happen to know the msn haze fix? :) Apr 28 03:04:52 johnx, well since you may not share my views..from a logical standpoint 1. it is dropped in price significantly 2. it is a sleek device with some truly nice upgrades (just dont have the sd slots) 3. n810 comes with some cool stuff Apr 28 03:11:06 alright hmmm ssh connection closed, i try ssh again, connection refused (again)..i turned off psm..no effect Apr 28 03:11:12 this is odd Apr 28 03:11:33 heh Apr 28 03:11:38 kill it? Apr 28 03:11:39 does sftp work? Apr 28 03:13:00 no o.o Apr 28 03:13:06 connection refused >.> Apr 28 03:33:51 why does my wifi think it is 00:02:ee:c0:ff:ee ? Apr 28 03:33:53 :/ Apr 28 04:34:56 are there light-weight themes for maemo/hildon? Apr 28 04:35:34 light-weight? Apr 28 04:35:49 :) Apr 28 04:35:50 There isn't much weight to the default themes. Apr 28 04:36:46 minimalistic you mean? Apr 28 04:36:54 Hildon, not itT. Apr 28 04:37:08 well Apr 28 04:37:10 in terms of cpu/ram and such, you cant really get much quicker / less system intensive Apr 28 04:37:23 you can get smaller fonts and transparent ui  ? Apr 28 04:40:20 hmm Apr 28 05:33:45 hey is it possible to have more than 127 brightness's on n800, having brightness at 1 is too high for me and 0 makes everything total darkness on n800 Apr 28 05:35:07 No, that's the hardware limit. Apr 28 05:36:54 zakkm, also, cross posting isn't cool :P Apr 28 06:04:24 morning, morgon, dobroe utro, Apr 28 06:23:50 i've just read about the Maemo 5 (Fremantle), it wil run on N800? Apr 28 06:26:26 nop Apr 28 06:28:53 :/ Apr 28 06:31:31 ~mer Apr 28 06:31:31 mer is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Apr 28 06:31:39 will be the cloz Apr 28 06:31:50 closest api wise Apr 28 07:02:46 what's the repository for abiword? Apr 28 07:11:25 radic: isn't it in Extra? Apr 28 07:11:46 no Apr 28 07:13:49 its in extras-devel Apr 28 07:15:13 danielwilms: ahh, that's not in my list Apr 28 07:15:39 can you give me the entry? Apr 28 07:17:23 radic: the url is http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel Apr 28 07:20:31 radic: the rest u can take from the extras-entry, depends on the release you are using ;) Apr 28 07:55:57 re Apr 28 08:08:46 morning Apr 28 08:09:05 HI Apr 28 08:10:24 * Stskeeps ponders if today or tomorrow is beta release Apr 28 08:17:50 for? Apr 28 08:18:13 how is that n800 working out Stskeeps ? Apr 28 08:18:32 no scrolling screen helping a bit? ;) Apr 28 08:24:21 Macer: yeah Apr 28 08:24:42 i had a small scare when it started flickering different colours all of a sudden, but i think that was just an odd fluke Apr 28 08:25:25 didn't happen again Apr 28 08:25:42 if so that'd just be the lcd connector Apr 28 08:25:53 which i know how to put in place Apr 28 08:29:31 telling horror stories next to a bonfire? Apr 28 08:29:44 * rmt yawwwwnlegs Apr 28 08:30:02 have I ever told how I cracked my n810's LCD? Apr 28 08:30:14 did you see my scrolling LCD? :P Apr 28 08:32:59 no Apr 28 08:34:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcm5TYGwTwU Apr 28 08:37:00 Sts: It is gently reminding you that it is time to buy n9x0? =) Apr 28 08:37:07 after a year, yes Apr 28 08:37:39 Does not look like a problem with LCD though Apr 28 08:38:16 probably blizzard chip Apr 28 10:06:47 mgedmin: you were the one to log #maemo or how was it? Apr 28 10:07:43 nm, i'll just use your script :) Apr 28 10:45:04 Stskeeps: yep Apr 28 10:54:42 Heyhey! Apr 28 10:54:58 Beta SDK released! Apr 28 10:55:21 woo! Apr 28 10:55:31 i don't see it yet :p Apr 28 10:55:43 I'm at Fruct, it was announced Apr 28 10:55:55 hehe Apr 28 10:55:58 Indeed :) Apr 28 10:56:13 No announcement on maemo.org yet. Apr 28 10:56:14 Well, announce != available ;) Apr 28 10:56:30 wazd_n800: anything with the announcement, or is it just the SDK? Apr 28 10:56:44 * Jaffa likes getting the beta SDK, but would rather have some h/w :) Apr 28 10:56:47 X-Fade well, they told that it's already available Apr 28 10:57:00 wazd_n800: Marketing speech ;) Apr 28 10:57:05 there goes the week Apr 28 10:57:10 wazd_n800: Perhaps it is if you can randomly guess URLs. Apr 28 10:58:17 wazd_n800: saw any demos? Apr 28 10:58:23 well, they started to describe it right now Apr 28 10:58:48 Stskeeps, maybe they will show'em later Apr 28 10:59:06 Jaffa: heads up btw, we'll change where rss comes from, as i want to drop jaiku Apr 28 10:59:35 there'll come a mail around about the "new ways" later Apr 28 11:00:00 I'll keep you in touch) Apr 28 11:00:03 Stskeeps: cool, if you can get them side-by-side running for a while (or the new one set up before dropping Jaiku), I should be able to make the transition seamless. Apr 28 11:00:13 yep Apr 28 11:00:45 moo wazd Apr 28 11:01:06 wazd: So what is new in the beta SDK? Apr 28 11:01:29 this was earlier at itt http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/ Apr 28 11:01:44 mikkov_: nothing interesting though, some new widgets thoug Apr 28 11:03:14 RST38h, they're telling bout SDK+ now( Apr 28 11:03:17 Beta SDK should contain a frozen API and proper documentation (incl. UI guidelines) and some Hildon Desktop stuff. Apr 28 11:03:57 BTW, Mer was already mentioned by Eero Tamminen) Apr 28 11:04:47 wazd_n800: should shake Eero's hand - he has done a really impressive job with Maemo and streamlining it with performance Apr 28 11:07:02 lcuk, ping?) Apr 28 11:07:29 sts Apr 28 11:07:39 Stskeeps, ok) Apr 28 11:08:18 wazd: MaemoSDK+ is different stuff, old too Apr 28 11:08:30 aka Scratchbox2, basically Apr 28 11:10:08 they actually shown Beta SDK maemo.org page sooo X-Fade is hiding something :P Apr 28 11:10:44 wazd_n800: Heh, I don't have it. Honestly. Apr 28 11:12:02 * RST38h counts scalpels and scissors, while looking at X-Fade meaningfully Apr 28 11:13:34 RST38h: I'm on your side of the firewall, so really.. I don't have it. Apr 28 11:14:20 :) Apr 28 11:14:41 X-Fade: Hour later or earlier, it does not really matter Apr 28 11:15:01 Would be cool if at least some of the applications are included though... Apr 28 11:15:48 wazd_n800, hi Apr 28 11:15:56 have you met up with vlad then Apr 28 11:16:02 moo lcuk Apr 28 11:16:39 hey rst Apr 28 11:17:52 Maemo 5 Beta SDK link is appearing and disapperaring at http://maemo.org/development/sdks/ menubar Apr 28 11:18:11 its like the tardis Apr 28 11:18:27 mikkov_: link ? :D Apr 28 11:18:38 lol X-Fade Apr 28 11:18:59 reloading makes it appear and disappear randomly Apr 28 11:19:08 http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_sdk/ Apr 28 11:19:14 works on and off Apr 28 11:19:27 Not here Apr 28 11:19:27 now it works Apr 28 11:19:29 server side blink! Apr 28 11:19:41 web 2.0 Apr 28 11:20:00 now it disappeared :) Apr 28 11:20:08 the poor 770 on the desk at the side of x-fade is up in smoke Apr 28 11:20:30 lcuk: Cracked the case open and added a fan ;) Apr 28 11:20:39 It shows up in Firefox but not in IE Apr 28 11:20:42 Sneaky Apr 28 11:20:50 lcuk: heya) Apr 28 11:20:53 X-Fade: So, does it levitate now? =) Apr 28 11:21:03 RST38h: Well one thing is for sure, we don't check for your browser ;) Apr 28 11:21:33 status area and task switcher are still missing Apr 28 11:21:37 You're probably hopping from server to server by the loadbalancer. Apr 28 11:21:37 x-fade does the difference indicate you actually have a cluster :O Apr 28 11:21:45 so, it is more like alpha than beta... Apr 28 11:21:51 lcuk: Vlad told me bout your drunk parties :D Apr 28 11:21:51 FM transmit api, neat Apr 28 11:21:52 RST38h: check if it says "alpha" in top Apr 28 11:21:59 AH! Apr 28 11:22:09 Sts: looks like release notes are still from Alpha! Apr 28 11:23:10 sdk release days are kinda like christmas Apr 28 11:23:10 :P Apr 28 11:23:13 lcuk: Vlad asks, how's your finger? Apr 28 11:24:37 so, is beta online? Apr 28 11:24:44 wazd_n800: no Apr 28 11:24:56 wazd_n800, it hurts like a bitch, but the electric shock feeling has stopped Apr 28 11:25:16 X-Fade, did you see the xray :O Apr 28 11:28:03 here's something but I can't login http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_docs/ Apr 28 11:28:22 Lol, detective mikkov ;) Apr 28 11:28:37 =)) Apr 28 11:29:06 \o danielwilms Apr 28 11:29:07 the link is at beta sdk page if happen to be lucky to get it loaded Apr 28 11:29:23 there is no installer links yet Apr 28 11:31:19 wazd_n800, i had to stay mostly sober, but on the first night i drank more than usual lol Apr 28 11:33:31 maemo_5_beta_sdk page is gone again Apr 28 11:38:35 Meanwhile, the fit-width-to-view debacle continues... Apr 28 11:38:42 does it? Apr 28 11:38:49 yea, check the ITT Apr 28 11:39:04 'lo andre__ Apr 28 11:39:12 maybe "debacle" is a too strong word to me :) Apr 28 11:39:14 heja Apr 28 11:40:04 andre: lots of responses to this thread Apr 28 11:40:31 * RST38h would really just suggest that Nokia keeps the option but reimplements it in some saner way Apr 28 11:40:36 ...which i wouldn't call a debacle, but open source culture :-P Apr 28 11:40:46 hmm, well. to me it's broken by design Apr 28 11:41:08 is there ping6 available for os2008 somewhere? Apr 28 11:41:15 andre: this has nothing to do with open source culture, it is just a bunch of vocal users disagreeing with a decisionmade by the manufacturer Apr 28 11:41:44 andre: dunno, maybe some redefinition of how it operates would work Apr 28 11:41:57 cosmo_, if so, it's included in busybox Apr 28 11:42:04 RST38h, hmm, right Apr 28 11:42:16 andre: because the need to reflow the page that does not fit the screen is indeed there Apr 28 11:42:44 cosmo_, ping6 should be available in Fremantle according to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=989#c19 Apr 28 11:42:47 andre__: nope. i guess ipv6 is not "officially supported" Apr 28 11:43:01 it's not for Diablo Apr 28 11:43:03 * Stskeeps really thought it was in maemo4 Apr 28 11:43:06 andre: Maybe replace "Fit" with "Attempt to fit" and bail out when the page layout does not allow it Apr 28 11:43:58 how would you know the page doesnt allow it? Apr 28 11:44:07 RST38h, i agree there's a need. however, the current approach is busted. and rewriting it does not seem to be an option - dead end. don't know myself (not a dev), but that's the feedback i've heard Apr 28 11:45:04 RST38h, websites that supportfit to width themselves do it already? Apr 28 11:45:15 thats normal html Apr 28 11:45:27 moan at site operators for expecting too much space Apr 28 11:46:13 * lcuk has a pet peeve with sites that DONT adjust themselves to my window Apr 28 11:46:41 lcuk: Oh nobody does it nowadays, including our very own "new maemo.org design" (sic) Apr 28 11:46:49 on my desktop i hate seeing sites with huge white gaps at the sides cos they deem it right to automatically cuttext into thin columns Apr 28 11:46:56 lcuk: But some sites can still be reflown Apr 28 11:46:59 *drumroll*: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0beta/ Apr 28 11:47:13 it's not all there yet Apr 28 11:47:26 please wait a while ;) Apr 28 11:47:36 Jaffa: http://n2.nabble.com/Mer-Chatter-f2732813.xml Apr 28 11:47:56 lcuk: Things went out of the window the moment some bright mind decided to introduce CSS Apr 28 11:48:16 * lcuk watches as andre__'s drumsticks are confescated lol Apr 28 11:48:29 lcuk: I still remember the famous "IMG tag considered harmful" argument, but what really killed HTML was CSS Apr 28 11:49:02 nothing "killed" html, sites have always had the ability to misbehave and layout badly Apr 28 11:49:04 grumble. :-P Apr 28 11:49:10 isnt geocities just being taken down now lol Apr 28 11:49:26 no, there's a company continuing with geocities iirc Apr 28 11:49:54 the site itself is goin down, there was a posting about someone archiving it with a view to making it available Apr 28 11:50:06 (slashdot posting) Apr 28 11:50:08 lcuk: yes but before CSS it could still be controlled Apr 28 11:50:34 lcuk, http://www.jimdo.com/geocities Apr 28 11:50:43 css gives MORE power to you though, since you yourself can use local css to overwrite anything Apr 28 11:50:47 but you're right it seems Apr 28 11:50:53 lcuk: once these monkeys became able to place elements at fixed coordinates, all went to shit Apr 28 11:51:21 i have always had that with tables Apr 28 11:51:50 lcuk: you can basically write a parses that verifies a tree of tables Apr 28 11:51:56 s/parses/parser Apr 28 11:51:58 mm, fresh kernel Apr 28 11:52:14 lcuk: with CSS it becomes too complicated Apr 28 11:52:18 tv-out, it seems Apr 28 11:52:49 * RST38h imagines his N9x0 connected to a TV and playing Castlevania Apr 28 11:52:51 oooh Apr 28 11:53:23 fmrx Apr 28 11:53:24 Just please give me a screen that I can press with my finger not being afraid to break it Apr 28 11:53:38 thats not the tv tho Apr 28 11:53:51 oh foo Apr 28 11:53:58 microsd Apr 28 11:54:00 ? Apr 28 11:54:17 * lcuk goes back to work Apr 28 11:54:38 Stskeeps, i have lots of microsd's - i keep losing em Apr 28 11:55:00 o_O i should replace my fingernail with one Apr 28 11:55:17 bbl Apr 28 11:55:27 hm, resistive ts Apr 28 11:55:35 (tsc2005) Apr 28 11:56:16 * Stskeeps wonders wtf about IR support though Apr 28 11:56:41 tv remote ;) Apr 28 11:59:24 * RST38h is ok about resistive TS as long as it is the same as in 5800 Apr 28 12:03:58 kulve: new xserver-xorg-video-fbdev has new stuff, it seems Apr 28 12:06:01 lcuk: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/28/irish_yorkshire/ ! Apr 28 12:06:43 Stskeeps: oh, need to check it our Apr 28 12:06:44 out Apr 28 12:21:53 Stskeeps: do you want the subtitle to be the content, if present? Apr 28 12:22:13 Jaffa: ideally subject = the text in feed Apr 28 12:22:17 and then redirect to nabble post Apr 28 12:22:30 OK Apr 28 12:22:34 the idea is to make mer-chatter "microbloggin" Apr 28 12:22:52 where we combine subject (what was accomplished, in short) and then full explanation if such is exists Apr 28 12:23:16 will put a bot in #mer that can send out mails upon a command as well Apr 28 12:25:03 New modest UI looks interesting on http://maemo.org/news/announcements/call_to_developers_maemo_5_beta_sdk_out/ Apr 28 12:25:26 'lo roope :) Apr 28 12:25:36 hi roope Apr 28 12:26:03 Jaffa: When you leave only 1/4 of the screen to actual email message, that is not "interesting" but plain stupid =( Apr 28 12:26:35 Hi. Apr 28 12:27:08 rst38h: it scrolls and expands. Apr 28 12:27:23 roope: Expands under what conditions? Apr 28 12:27:27 The libhildon library is now developed openly in its garage project. Apr 28 12:27:27 neat Apr 28 12:27:38 Sts: finally! Apr 28 12:27:42 The Help library is dropped. Diablo applications that use context-sensitive help and use the libhildonhelp library would need to remove the dependencies from their packages inorder to work in Fremantle. Apr 28 12:27:46 yay, no help Apr 28 12:28:07 If there's more text, I think. Unless if that screenshot is of some other mail client. Apr 28 12:28:34 lemme check. Apr 28 12:28:50 roope: the screenshot seems to show the send-message interface Apr 28 12:30:02 ...of modest. Apr 28 12:30:23 RST38h: I was assuming the dialogue would act as roope is describing - otherwise, yes, it's a bit crap. Apr 28 12:30:42 aha, task switcher and status area are still missing Apr 28 12:30:59 Ah, yes, it scales. If there is more text than what fits the area, the area expands. Apr 28 12:31:09 So that eventualyl the whole page is of the text field. Apr 28 12:31:15 Jaffa: I can't see how it can expand in that particular screenshot - no Ui controls for that and no text to begin with Apr 28 12:31:18 * Meizirkki wornders why the hell more and more companies are saying their devices can run linux OR android ... Apr 28 12:31:27 It's pretty neat, in a way. Apr 28 12:31:28 roope: Kinda like some IM clients? Apr 28 12:31:36 Yes. Apr 28 12:31:46 I see...hmm, that should be neat then Apr 28 12:32:00 The entire box scales, even up to more than one page height. As high as it needs to go. Apr 28 12:32:12 Meizirkki: more bullets on the feature list = more interest Apr 28 12:32:36 The new email is _so_ much better than the old one. :) Apr 28 12:32:41 it actually works? Apr 28 12:32:43 :P Apr 28 12:32:50 Yes, it's actually usable. :) Apr 28 12:32:53 * Stskeeps has wanted to throw his tablet out the window at times over Modest. Apr 28 12:32:53 :p Apr 28 12:33:03 does it actually play nice with IMAP? Apr 28 12:33:12 roope: will there be a Diablo version? =) Apr 28 12:33:18 I use it with my gmail imap, and yeah, it's pretty cool. Apr 28 12:33:28 Does it work with POP3 too now? =) Apr 28 12:33:38 roope: so sent mails are put to gmail imap sent mails and not internal sent mail folder? Apr 28 12:33:45 the gmail labels work, for instance. Apr 28 12:33:52 woot Apr 28 12:33:54 RST38h: If it's now open, we could backport it Apr 28 12:34:12 Jaffa: It is in git.maemo.org, so ;) Apr 28 12:34:29 * Myrtti licks Jaffa Apr 28 12:34:37 please do backport it :-D Apr 28 12:35:07 myrtti: I don't recall right now. Apr 28 12:35:32 If we're going to do a community SSU containing HAM, we ould do one including modest as well Apr 28 12:35:58 Jaffa: This depends on how far its dependencies are from diablo though Apr 28 12:36:11 RST38h: indeed Apr 28 12:36:18 roope: gmail labels will work independently on the mail client Apr 28 12:36:22 But for the features I think (?) people can just install it and test it for themselvse. Apr 28 12:36:31 roope: gmail exposes labelled items as separate IMAP folders Apr 28 12:36:42 rst38h: ok. well, they work, anyway. :) Apr 28 12:37:13 roope: I am more interested in whether it still gets stuck when it fails to establish a connection Apr 28 12:37:43 the part that really sucks with the old email client is that if you use it with imap, and send mail, the sent mail remain on the device and are not put into the imap folder, and there is no nice way of subscribing the imap ones anyway Apr 28 12:37:55 rooper: the current modest is very sensitiive to connection failures, it goes bonkers and continues to go bonkers until I make it save config Apr 28 12:38:25 And POP3 is just so weirdly broken that I can't even describe it =( Apr 28 12:38:33 I've done only limited testing with the new one, but my initial impressions are mostly very positive. Apr 28 12:38:43 But i haven't tried pop, for instance. Apr 28 12:38:58 (since imap is the better alternative anyway). :) Apr 28 12:39:46 RST38h, file me some modest bugs please (if you refer to recent code and not to diablo) :) Apr 28 12:55:14 * Stskeeps wonders what a beta release now will do to the speculation threads Apr 28 12:56:19 timsamoff: you're more than welcome to idle in #mer too ;) Apr 28 12:57:19 'T'salright... ;) I've got a meeting (I think) in #maemo-meeting, so I'm cleaning up. Apr 28 12:57:23 hehe Apr 28 12:57:42 * Stskeeps tries to get an overview of how much we have to do to integrate fremantle beta pieces Apr 28 12:57:48 * Myrtti loves rsync Apr 28 12:58:15 andre: There is no point filing bugs, they will not be fixed. Apr 28 12:59:08 andre: in fact, the last ones I have filed on Modest still have not been fixed in Diablo. Apr 28 12:59:26 * timsamoff has English muffin and coffee. Apr 28 13:04:02 - Apr 28 13:04:18 ~ Apr 28 13:05:19 Stskeeps: :D typed in the wrong window i guess ;) Apr 28 13:05:22 hehe Apr 28 13:05:25 RST38h: modest was moving to open source again... Apr 28 13:10:43 Stskeeps: mer-chatter now should be being included Apr 28 13:11:05 Jaffa: thanks Apr 28 13:11:18 Jaffa: Do you guys call English muffins English muffins? Or just muffins? Apr 28 13:11:25 mmmmm muffins Apr 28 13:12:44 timsamoff: i for one call them “muffins” Apr 28 13:12:45 We have two things we call "muffins": light, sweet cakes (I think you call them "muffins") and savoury flat, dusty things, often served at McDonalds with eggs in for breakfast (are these "English" muffins?) Apr 28 13:13:15 Jaffa: Yes, but... There are better English muffins than that! Apr 28 13:13:35 Jaffa: http://www.wolfermans.com/gifts/store/home__10053_10005 Apr 28 13:13:40 http://onefh.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/plain-old-muffin.jpg is a "muffin" and http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/images/bacon-egg-muffin.jpg is a (breakfast) muffin. Apr 28 13:14:52 We also have crumpets which may be closer to what that picture is showing Apr 28 13:15:07 crumpets and muffins are *so* not interchangable Apr 28 13:16:03 Jaffa: I will try to smuggle a Wolferman's English muffin to the next Summit for you. ;) Apr 28 13:16:14 depends on what you are doing with them Apr 28 13:17:33 wjt: No, indeed - but look at the picture - it has holes in. Apr 28 13:18:31 hmm Apr 28 13:18:34 they look suspicous Apr 28 13:18:39 i wouldn't trust 'em Apr 28 13:22:57 hello Apr 28 13:23:02 * timeless_mbp recovers macbook Apr 28 13:23:22 so... it turns out that my mac just forgot how to load my zpool... and now i know how to... so i have a happy mac :) Apr 28 13:23:27 well, mostly Apr 28 13:24:47 andre: Are you the guy accepting bug reports on the new SDK documentation? Apr 28 13:25:08 timsamoff: woo :) Apr 28 13:25:14 err, timeless_mbp: woo :) Apr 28 13:25:21 wasn't that the problem i pondered it was? :P Apr 28 13:25:48 what did you ponder the problem to be? Apr 28 13:26:03 RST38h: there is a guy accepting it Apr 28 13:26:32 it isn't really andre, but you should be able to contact the primary person directly Apr 28 13:26:45 or file a bug in bugzilla in the SDK area, they should be reading them Apr 28 13:27:18 timeless_mbp: that you lost your zpool.cache and needed to zpool import again? :P Apr 28 13:27:31 RST38h: but what's wrong with the documemtation...perhaps its fast solvable ;) Apr 28 13:27:33 what's a zpool.cache? Apr 28 13:27:49 but basically, yes, i need to zpool import at each boot :( Apr 28 13:27:50 timeless_mbp: it's the cache in /etc with what pools are loaded Apr 28 13:29:13 daniel: it should be Apr 28 13:29:18 daniel: Check http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_docs/using_multimedia_components/ Apr 28 13:29:37 daniel: 1. there is a huge blacked out block; 2. there is a stray (just found it) Apr 28 13:30:20 daniel: And 3. All the code samples come up on grey background for some reason, I would suggest wheat instead because it closely mimics the paper Apr 28 13:30:58 theheheheheh *snork Apr 28 13:31:01 * Apr 28 13:31:20 * thux powertop seems to really work even with amd cpu Apr 28 13:32:09 i have a silent lap now! Apr 28 13:33:00 RST38h: blacked out block.. SCP? Apr 28 13:34:56 Sts: may actually hide a meme making reader gay! =) Apr 28 13:35:20 thux: even with C-states? Apr 28 13:35:39 * Myrtti confesses nothing Apr 28 13:35:55 Jaffa: what is C-states? Apr 28 13:37:50 RST38h: 1. I dont see, 2. changed, 3. it is meant to be like this ;) Apr 28 13:37:56 but not silent all the time once in while one fan blows air, but powertop put on laptop-mode and increased time when writes dirty buffers Apr 28 13:47:28 RST38h, just file everything+1 :) Apr 28 13:47:58 daniel: 1. black rectangle starts a few lines below g_warning ("Error getting item %d " Apr 28 13:48:20 hola Apr 28 13:48:21 Folks, could somebody verify that the blacked out part is present for daniel? URL is http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_docs/using_multimedia_components/ Apr 28 13:49:19 daniel: As to #3, could you please consider changing the color? Gray really *isn't* the best background color for reading. I do not think you have seen many books printed on gray paper Apr 28 13:50:22 RST38h: The background is part of the main site style, no? Apr 28 13:50:55 timsamoff: I guess he means the code snippets Apr 28 13:51:10 Right... I think that's in the main site CSS. As X-Fade. Apr 28 13:51:16 timsamoff yes it is Apr 28 13:51:17 timsamoff: I know it is Apr 28 13:51:35 timsamoff: Well, if the code snippet background is part of the main site style then that is your bug report not daniel's Apr 28 13:51:43 RST38h: the gray background is legacy of the old training material Apr 28 13:51:57 Lodge a report to have it change. ;) Apr 28 13:52:00 Myrtti: does it mean it is there to stay? =) Apr 28 13:52:04 *changed. Apr 28 13:52:14 RST38h: not necessarily, I just explained where it roots from Apr 28 13:52:39 timsamoff: It has been already done, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4394 Apr 28 13:52:46 Oh, ok. :) Apr 28 13:53:42 Although the product/component is wrong if you want something on the website changed. Apr 28 13:54:21 timsamoff: yes, I will change it in a moment Apr 28 13:54:28 Ok. Apr 28 13:54:38 timsamoff: my suggestion is to use #FFFFF0 or similar color Apr 28 13:54:49 slightly off-white Apr 28 13:54:58 I have no preference as long as you're warm anf uzzy. :p Apr 28 13:55:04 *fuzzy Apr 28 13:55:13 old lace Apr 28 13:55:47 oldlace, which would be... Apr 28 13:56:28 #FDF5E6 Apr 28 13:56:41 yea Apr 28 13:56:49 If it were me, I'd use #fffbf2. Apr 28 13:57:01 except that it is shown as white on my notebook Apr 28 13:57:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Lace_(color) Apr 28 13:57:49 Toshiba was too greedy and put low bpp LCD into it Apr 28 13:58:42 can anyone reproduce this?? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4391 Apr 28 13:58:48 * RST38h checked and found that Lenovo is also greedy - #fffbf2 will look white on Thinkpadfs Apr 28 13:59:03 Better now? Apr 28 13:59:25 RST38h: no blackout in ff3 Apr 28 13:59:31 X-Fade: Oh yessss Apr 28 13:59:41 X-Fade good! Apr 28 13:59:57 Sts: IE6 shows no blackout too Apr 28 14:00:17 But FF3 does Apr 28 14:00:58 Looks fine in FF3 to me (Mac). Apr 28 14:01:10 looks fine to me in FF3 windows Apr 28 14:01:13 Wait, I have got a funny idea...I am looking at it through an Intel proxy Apr 28 14:01:34 Maybe THAT thing blacks it out?!? Apr 28 14:02:04 danielwilms: not in Firefox 3.0.9, IE7 or Google Chrome Apr 28 14:03:16 daniel: Close it then, and I will double check from home just in case Apr 28 14:03:19 I even added a print.css for printing the docs last week ;) Apr 28 14:03:42 Although that needs some tweakng still ;) Apr 28 14:03:59 RST38h: ok Apr 28 14:10:46 hi Apr 28 14:10:58 i've created a greasemonkey script for iPhone version of GMail Apr 28 14:11:07 it adjusts size of all elements to fit tablet's screen Apr 28 14:11:14 http://popelo.com/trash/better-google-for-iphone-v2-screenshot.png Apr 28 14:11:26 if somebody interested, details are here - http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28604 Apr 28 14:13:26 yawn Apr 28 14:13:32 im tired Apr 28 14:17:49 apopelo: but why didn't you read my mail :P Apr 28 14:18:53 keesj: :P Apr 28 14:20:45 apopelo: Has Greasemonkey been ported to microb? Apr 28 14:21:59 Jaffa: yup Apr 28 14:22:12 Jaffa: http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/3/ Apr 28 14:28:33 apopelo: How well does it work in microb, without any of the whizzy HTML 5 features? Apr 28 14:31:36 Jaffa: well, i didn't experience any problems yet Apr 28 15:05:56 Hi I'm trying to setup ssh on my N810 and I need to know how I create a new user in the terminal. Command for Ubuntu/Debian 'adduser' does not work. What should I do? Apr 28 15:06:27 the user is called "user" Apr 28 15:06:44 falkinski: The question which immediately comes to mind is "why do you want to add a new user?". You've got both "root" and "user" already. Apr 28 15:06:45 so ssh user@n810 Apr 28 15:07:28 and vi .ssh/config Host n810 \nUser user onyour local machine Apr 28 15:07:50 Jaffa: Need to make a user with a password (ssh asks for it) and I dont remember the fabric made password Apr 28 15:07:52 or use Mer :p Apr 28 15:08:43 falkinski, you can ssh in as root and "su - user" to get a shell as "user" if you don't wish to give "user" a password Apr 28 15:13:00 I use ssh keys most of the time , but that all doesn't answer his question :p Apr 28 15:14:01 on my install there is a useradd command btw Apr 28 15:15:38 Thx all, it's working Apr 28 15:15:51 rly? Apr 28 15:16:45 Yepp Apr 28 15:17:14 qwerty12 told me to change root pw so now it works yay Apr 28 15:21:59 I start to think if there would be different users/user profiles for different situations for n810 Apr 28 15:22:54 could it be beneficial Apr 28 15:23:42 at least different profiles for family members could be usefull if someone else would like to take the device for usage. Apr 28 15:24:12 oilinki: Like a loginpage? Apr 28 15:24:46 then one profile for car usage with easy access to mapper and music. Apr 28 15:25:13 falkinski: login page for different users. profiles for different usage. Apr 28 15:26:27 maemo is very hardcoded to user sadly Apr 28 15:28:32 one time I did function for n810. when ever it left the home network, maemo mapper started. then again, when coming back to home wlan area, mapper closed and POI's were updated to the server so that it could be shared with other devices. Apr 28 15:30:44 anyway it would be nice if the device would sense the environment and act accordingly Apr 28 15:39:14 Stskeeps: hey, i don't suppose you speak LaunchD ? :) Apr 28 15:47:50 timeless_mbp: sorry, i don't have a mac so :P Apr 28 15:56:45 wow, I can color maemopad icons in the beta sdk, lolool Apr 28 15:57:08 mouse over the icons make them blue :P Apr 28 15:57:21 nice feature,lolol Apr 28 15:57:27 hehe Apr 28 16:02:07 * RST38h has read the list of swine flu symptoms and came to conclusion that he has it. Apr 28 16:02:12 RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! Apr 28 16:02:22 HOLY SHIT Apr 28 16:02:30 I knew you mooing would come to no good Apr 28 16:02:34 Dude, you're a gonner. Apr 28 16:03:01 Hi Apr 28 16:03:11 X-Fade: I'd be afraid I'm about to make a mistake Apr 28 16:03:29 dneary: Then maybe you should not do it? :) Apr 28 16:03:35 Will you be able to review a change to maemo2midgard? Apr 28 16:03:42 sure Apr 28 16:04:00 X-Fade: I don't have any way to test what effect the change will have on the web bage Apr 28 16:04:15 I'll attach a patch to the "Karma isn't formatted right" bug Apr 28 16:07:55 X-Fade: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4365 Apr 28 16:10:37 anyone have success installing apps from fremantle-extras in the beta sdk ? Apr 28 16:10:54 VDVsx_: They shouldn't ;) Apr 28 16:10:56 I got this: http://pastebin.ca/1406240 Apr 28 16:11:02 Which reminds me to add fremantle-extras to dput.cf, install the sdk and try recompiling Apr 28 16:11:14 X-Fade: Does SB2 support Fremantle already? Apr 28 16:11:31 RST38h: I have no idea. Apr 28 16:11:48 X-Fade, why ? Apr 28 16:11:59 VDVsx_: Because there is no Fremantle extras .. Apr 28 16:12:34 ok extras-devel :P Apr 28 16:13:53 /var/lib/dpkg/info/leafpad.postinst: line 7: maemo-select-menu-location: command not found Apr 28 16:14:01 ^^ looks like that might be your problem Apr 28 16:14:10 Yeah, but that should just be available. Apr 28 16:14:20 maemo-select-menu-location is depreciated in Fremantle but a dummy binary should be there... Apr 28 16:14:21 As that is a core script. Apr 28 16:14:46 Hmm this should be updated too: http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/packaging-devel.html Apr 28 16:16:02 VDVsx_: You had these problems in the beta SDK for frementle right? I can fireup my SDK and see if I can repeat those problems, then file a bug if needed. Apr 28 16:16:27 jeremiah_, ok, thanks Apr 28 16:17:01 It was leafpad you installed? Apr 28 16:17:54 jeremiah_, yup, but it happens in other apps too Apr 28 16:18:23 VDVsx_: Yeah, I would image that to happen as this was perfecty valid in diablo etc. Apr 28 16:18:38 yawn Apr 28 16:19:15 X-Fade, yah, but those apps worked fine in the alpha SDK Apr 28 16:19:22 jeremiah_: you have a novell account/build opensuse? if so, you should see something Apr 28 16:19:35 VDVsx_: Well, then you might have found a real bug... Apr 28 16:19:58 Stskeeps: I am not sure that I do. Apr 28 16:20:31 novell? Apr 28 16:20:36 jeremiah_: it should ask you for a signup if you go to https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=Maemo%3AMer%3ADevel Apr 28 16:20:46 Macer: there'll be openid support later Apr 28 16:20:51 hi Apr 28 16:20:57 (gsoc project) Apr 28 16:21:09 like... novell as in ipx? Apr 28 16:21:19 yeah, but thats kinda old novell Apr 28 16:21:25 novell owns suse, remember? Apr 28 16:21:30 heh Apr 28 16:21:35 novell bought suse some time ago Apr 28 16:21:45 what was wrong with ipx/spx? Apr 28 16:22:00 macer didnt performe well? Apr 28 16:22:05 was it just that ipv4 had an easier numbering scheme? Apr 28 16:22:18 woglinde: sure it did =) Apr 28 16:23:14 Stskeeps: It turns out I did. :P Apr 28 16:23:33 jeremiah_: hehe Apr 28 16:23:36 The project is called Maemo Mer Devel? Apr 28 16:23:43 yeah, well, the path Apr 28 16:24:04 it's a tree structure.. no idea who came up with the :'s ;) Apr 28 16:25:01 Macer: protocol wars aren't won by technological advantages Apr 28 16:25:03 jeremiah_: anyway, what you see on that page is the builder status, after 2 days of putting in packages - no scratchbox involved for the armv5 compilation, it builds the Mer packages both for Debian and for Ubuntu, both arm and x86 Apr 28 16:25:14 they are won all too often by popularity Apr 28 16:25:14 macer wasnt the darpa which forced the use of ipv4 Apr 28 16:25:43 jeremiah_: the packages in there come from sub-projects, where we promoted them with a simple command: osc copypac -k Maemo:Mer:Devel:MaemoCommon packagename Maemo:Mer:Devel Apr 28 16:26:04 to promote a package (and rebuild) in Testing repository, you can do osc copypac -k Maemo:Mer:Devel packagename Maemo:Mer:Testing Apr 28 16:26:12 and it'll resolve dependancies and do everything right Apr 28 16:26:46 luke-jr: i suppose so Apr 28 16:26:48 Stskeeps: Jeez, that is pretty amazing Apr 28 16:27:03 It is slow though, I search for mer and it is still searching. Apr 28 16:27:13 plus i dont think ipx was well suited for a wider area Apr 28 16:27:14 jeremiah_: searching? odd :P Apr 28 16:27:48 jeremiah_: but it's week days so OBS itself is pretty busy Apr 28 16:27:52 i feel like playing quake 3 Apr 28 16:28:02 i bet a ton of people still do =) Apr 28 16:28:05 jeremiah_: also, it will automatically rebuild when new versions come in, so you always know a package busting stuff Apr 28 16:28:25 and it will be up to date ABI wise too Apr 28 16:28:25 macer quake 3 still had the ipx stuff? Apr 28 16:28:29 Macer: I'm more apt to play Quake 1 Apr 28 16:28:45 jeremiah_: lbt and ScriptRipper will hopefully do more justice to OBS presentation at the developer weekend Apr 28 16:28:46 luke-jr: yah. quake 1 is still fun Apr 28 16:28:58 Macer: familiar with the RuneQuake mod? Apr 28 16:28:59 jeremiah_: but i'm absolutely sold personally, it's been a breeze getting it to work Apr 28 16:29:04 you can rocket jump Apr 28 16:29:08 =) Apr 28 16:29:14 Stskeeps: What is the goal here? To use this as a automated testbuilding server? Apr 28 16:29:24 luke-jr: never played with the rune mod Apr 28 16:29:40 jeremiah_: goal is that it's the builder. people can build locally too if they so want Apr 28 16:29:59 we have moved our builder stuff and repositories fully to OBS as part of the 0.13 sprint Apr 28 16:30:20 Stskeeps: cant you make a wan based distcc? Apr 28 16:30:21 Stskeeps: So you don't build anything locally, you just create the package files and push it to the builder? Apr 28 16:30:25 =) Apr 28 16:30:28 jeremiah_: correct Apr 28 16:30:35 Stskeeps: Very interesting. Apr 28 16:30:35 jeremiah_: you -can- build locally if you so want Apr 28 16:30:41 it can even compile ARM locally Apr 28 16:30:43 like the crypto busting app Apr 28 16:30:48 without any use of scratchbox Apr 28 16:30:52 and it works without a hiss Apr 28 16:30:55 Stskeeps: I would want to, but it is nice for others not to have to jump through all the hoops. Apr 28 16:31:00 wonder why nobody ever tried that Apr 28 16:31:03 of building locally that is Apr 28 16:31:12 jeremiah_: and people have their own "home" projects as well, to develop on Apr 28 16:31:26 Stskeeps: So you can use it like a forge? Apr 28 16:31:36 what was the name of the app that would sit there using cpu idle time to crack crypto? Apr 28 16:31:42 nah, not that far, but you can use it personally as a builder before pushing to "real" projects Apr 28 16:31:46 such as moving it into Devel Apr 28 16:31:51 Macer: that would be pretty cool Apr 28 16:32:03 kismet + wpa_supplicant + aircrack all in one ;) Apr 28 16:32:09 luke-jr: there was something that did it Apr 28 16:32:25 Stskeeps: That is quite useful, because a lot of the packages that get pushed to extras-devel don't build Apr 28 16:32:35 would run a client and use millions of computers and distribute for computations Apr 28 16:32:45 jeremiah_: Huh? Apr 28 16:32:59 Macer: eh, I don't mean that, that's boring :p Apr 28 16:33:25 luke-jr: haha Apr 28 16:33:28 X-Fade: Recently failed: zsync, qtmeetings, Apr 28 16:33:32 jeremiah_: and OBS is fully downloadable, and you can set up your own instance if you so want to Apr 28 16:33:36 Macer: really I just want kismet+wpa_supplicant Apr 28 16:33:39 like obs.maemo.org :P Apr 28 16:33:45 well cracking crypto can take forever Apr 28 16:33:48 jeremiah_: Yeah, they fail to build. But don't end up in extras-devel.. Apr 28 16:33:57 Macer: connect to APs whenever possible, but also make wifi maps in the background Apr 28 16:33:59 Stskeeps: That would be good because then we could do package policy checking first, then autobuilding. Apr 28 16:34:08 Macer: WEP cracking can take minutes Apr 28 16:34:14 but anything can be brute open with enough time and resourses Apr 28 16:34:54 wep is for losers Apr 28 16:34:56 haha Apr 28 16:35:14 jeremiah_: anyway.. we hope to knock people's socks off with a good presentation :) Apr 28 16:35:26 Stskeeps: Do that! Apr 28 16:35:27 Macer: WEP is fine, IMO, as long as i have an equivalent open Apr 28 16:35:35 Stskeeps: I look forward to it! Apr 28 16:36:12 no. it sucks Apr 28 16:36:15 =) bbl Apr 28 16:38:07 Stskeeps: So the parent project is Maemo Mer 0.13? Apr 28 16:38:23 Stskeeps: And the subprojects build on different arches? Apr 28 16:38:34 nah .. it's a tad simpler than that :) Apr 28 16:38:38 i.e. Beagleboard and Nokia N810? Apr 28 16:39:18 jeremiah_: ok, Mer:Devel compiles towards Debian and Ubuntu repositories, and subprojects (Mer:Devel:MaemoCommon) compiles against Devel Apr 28 16:39:38 so, when a package compiles in MaemoCommon, we move it onto the Devel repository, and things that need to recompile recompile Apr 28 16:39:50 :MaemoCommon is where we work and test packages before unleashing to unwitting users Apr 28 16:40:05 and :Devel is like debian's "unstable" Apr 28 16:40:17 when a package doesn't break everything, we promote it to Testing Apr 28 16:40:22 and eventually we copy Testing to a release, 0.13 Apr 28 16:40:40 So you do a freeze like debian does? Apr 28 16:41:01 Hmm, cool Apr 28 16:41:05 sortof, feature freeze, and at the moment, everything that's in Testing by 0.13, becomes Mer 0.13 Apr 28 16:41:25 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build is our work in progres Apr 28 16:41:25 s Apr 28 16:41:58 Stskeeps: Can you just pound on the build servers as much as you want? Can you schedule ten builds a day? Apr 28 16:42:06 jeremiah_: it schedules it itself Apr 28 16:42:10 aha Apr 28 16:42:16 https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=Maemo%3AMer%3ADevel%3AMaemoCommon Apr 28 16:42:23 i just uploaded a new version of libhildon Apr 28 16:42:36 The only problem I see is the proprietary bits to build on Nokia hardware. Apr 28 16:42:42 How do you see solving that? Apr 28 16:42:56 Obviously I doubt that code will get pushed to OBS Apr 28 16:43:32 yea, obviously - but if there was a obs.maemo.org, or a feature to "hide" the properitary bits - since you can run your own instance, noone stops you from having a local repository with the bits Apr 28 16:43:59 funny fact too - you can copy packages between OBS instances Apr 28 16:44:05 so from obs.maemo.org to the real OBS. Apr 28 16:45:27 Stskeeps: That would be great - make the package really portable. Apr 28 16:45:37 and between projects, build targets, etc Apr 28 16:47:14 also, you're always sure your packages are up to date, recompiled, no lingering ABI problems, etc Apr 28 16:47:27 if i drop in libhildon (which i will later), it will recompile things Apr 28 16:47:35 Sweet Apr 28 16:48:19 a -lot- of potential in this stuff :P Apr 28 16:50:54 hehe Apr 28 16:51:08 letz drop in glibc and see what'll happen Apr 28 16:51:28 slonopotamus_: sure, - one of my ideas would be dropping in gcc with optimized flags for armv6+vfp. Apr 28 16:52:16 btw Apr 28 16:52:19 fbdev! Apr 28 16:52:37 it perfectly plays video, as i saw, right? Apr 28 16:52:54 omapfb can be thrown out? Apr 28 16:53:20 sortof Apr 28 16:53:23 * slonopotamus_ lost link to Meiz xorg.conf :( Apr 28 16:53:28 you need to fb_update_mode auto Apr 28 16:53:53 Stskeeps, err Apr 28 16:53:58 Stskeeps, 20hz? Apr 28 16:54:17 Stskeeps, how it shown video so smooth in auto mode? Apr 28 16:54:26 no clue, but it does Apr 28 16:54:59 maaaagic Apr 28 16:55:22 Stskeeps, gimme link once more please? Apr 28 16:56:32 trac.tspre.org/meiz somewhere Apr 28 16:56:50 thanks Apr 28 16:57:01 i've bookmarked it :) Apr 28 16:59:01 Option "UseFBDev" "true" Apr 28 16:59:18 i don't understand what driver will receive it Apr 28 16:59:44 http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/xorg.conf Apr 28 17:00:20 no meiz online :( Apr 28 17:03:54 jeremiah_, did you already tried to install some apps in the sdk ? Apr 28 17:04:39 VDVsx: I did, but I was not in the fremantle sdk. :( Apr 28 17:04:43 I am moving to that now. Apr 28 17:05:08 jeremiah_, you have the beta right ? Apr 28 17:07:48 VDVsx: Yeah, it is running in a virtual machine Apr 28 17:11:13 VDVsx: maemo-menu-select-location should be a null-op Apr 28 17:16:40 VDVsx: Have you run apt-get update? Apr 28 17:16:47 And apt-get upgrade? Apr 28 17:17:12 where are the fremantle beta sources Apr 28 17:17:15 jeremiah_, tes Apr 28 17:17:20 *yes Apr 28 17:17:31 VDVsx: Just thought I would check - I figured you might have. Apr 28 17:18:04 * timeless_mbp pokes jeremiah_ Apr 28 17:18:14 lbt: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0/ Apr 28 17:18:24 * jeremiah_ runs and hides Apr 28 17:18:28 lcuk: you might be interested in this: http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/ingredients-meat/bacon-pops-goat-cheese-balls-with-herbs-pecans-bacon-082974 Apr 28 17:18:33 heh Apr 28 17:18:43 Bacon pops! Apr 28 17:18:45 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/ gives a 404 Apr 28 17:18:56 Please please please create Fremantle target for SB2 =) Apr 28 17:19:06 lbt: Try the URL I sent ^^ Apr 28 17:19:36 I also notice that the program switcher gone in the beta UI Apr 28 17:19:38 I did :) then I went to Highlights and "Open source packages can be found here." and clicked "here" Apr 28 17:19:46 interestin Apr 28 17:19:47 h Apr 28 17:19:49 hildon HIG Apr 28 17:20:17 lbt, it's maemo5.0beta Apr 28 17:20:25 lbt: The Software Development Kit is in pre-alpha Apr 28 17:20:45 http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/hig/html/c465.html#input-hardware Apr 28 17:20:47 Stskeeps, hildon-inmate-guard? Apr 28 17:21:21 A two-touch happens when the user taps down with a finger and just after that, without lifting the finger, taps another position with another finger. Apr 28 17:21:26 found it yerga, jeremiah_ ... ta... just going to pull the source :) Apr 28 17:21:26 interesting Apr 28 17:22:12 * VDVsx notice that hildon HIG tutorial was written by a university classmate :P Apr 28 17:22:23 :D Apr 28 17:23:29 mmm, bluez has this in the changelog: "Unable to answer a waiting call with BH-903 headset" Apr 28 17:24:07 could the rx-51 be linked to a phone and a headset at the same time? Apr 28 17:24:19 yerga: can be Internet Call though Apr 28 17:24:47 Stskeeps, yes maybe ;) Apr 28 17:24:53 VDVsx: I am definitely getting problems too. Apr 28 17:26:12 can the new caller send DTMF? Apr 28 17:26:23 I don't think the maemo one can Apr 28 17:26:48 jeremiah_, but the funny thing is that the apps are actually installed, but you will got this error everytime you use apt-get Apr 28 17:27:13 is hildon application manager installed? Apr 28 17:27:56 yes, at least it shows up inside the hildon-desktop :P Apr 28 17:28:17 hmm Apr 28 17:28:23 So, who wants to bet the RX-71 has one of these "always present" keyboards? Apr 28 17:28:25 check HAM changelog if they removed maemo-select-menu-location Apr 28 17:28:53 VDVsx: weird. Apr 28 17:29:38 Is 5.2008.43-7 the latest Maemo version? Apr 28 17:30:06 zap, yes. Apr 28 17:30:19 sb 64-bit installation still sucks Apr 28 17:30:20 no more updates since then? Apr 28 17:30:36 got a new N810, that is Apr 28 17:31:11 zap, no, but we may push a community update in the coming months. Apr 28 17:31:35 with a new kernel? Apr 28 17:31:36 * Stskeeps is so glad that libhildon is no longer under wraps. Apr 28 17:32:33 mmmmmmmm bacon thanks etrunko Apr 28 17:32:41 * lcuk can barely type Apr 28 17:32:44 :) Apr 28 17:33:12 watch out so your keyboard don't get wet Apr 28 17:33:51 well im just thinkinj what else i can use that bacon dip with Apr 28 17:34:05 lcuk: Bacon? Apr 28 17:34:21 http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/ingredients-meat/bacon-pops-goat-cheese-balls-with-herbs-pecans-bacon-082974 Apr 28 17:34:29 What about dipping huge chunks of bacon in the bacon dip? Apr 28 17:34:34 etrunko passed on the excellent mouthwatering link Apr 28 17:34:44 thats a damned fine idea Apr 28 17:34:55 Who created the libgstream-plugins-bad package? Apr 28 17:35:06 It won't install. :-/ Apr 28 17:35:44 apt-cache show libgstream-plugins-bad knows Apr 28 17:35:54 <_berto_> Stskeeps: now you can join us/complain/beat us in the hildon-devel mailing list ;) Apr 28 17:36:06 jeremiah_, I also notice a lot of visual defects in the beta sdk, I can change icons color with a mouse over :), problems with the dialogs and icons, etc... Apr 28 17:36:13 things get worse compared with the aplha sdk Apr 28 17:36:29 _berto_: oh, i'm absolutely happy about libhildon :) Apr 28 17:36:45 * VDVsx gonna fill bugs Apr 28 17:36:45 i've never had the slightest problem with it, and i might actually submit patches Apr 28 17:37:05 <_berto_> well, there are still some bugs :) Apr 28 17:37:07 lcuk: "Extra-bacon option: If you aren't content to simply roll these in bacon, then fry an additional two strips of bacon and crumble them into the cheese mixture itself. " Apr 28 17:37:23 perfect! Apr 28 17:37:27 _berto_: probably, but i meant in terms of integration / porting to Mer :P Apr 28 17:37:32 <_berto_> Stskeeps: ahahah, ok :) Apr 28 17:38:20 etrunko, im slightly concerned all this bacon consumption might lead to pig-flu Apr 28 17:38:28 * lcuk eats anyway Apr 28 17:38:30 hehe Apr 28 17:39:09 VDVsx: Hmm - yeah, time to file some bugs against the beta Apr 28 17:39:27 I guess I missed the alpha, or did we go from pre-alpha to beta? Apr 28 17:39:50 we went from pre-alpha to pre-alpha2 to alpha to beta Apr 28 17:40:04 sheesh Apr 28 17:40:14 I have to do a screencast in order to show those visual defects :) Apr 28 17:41:05 ew Apr 28 17:41:08 re Apr 28 17:43:56 ok Apr 28 17:44:05 where is osso-system-lock-l10n-public source Apr 28 17:44:22 _berto_: (how come libhildon depends on that btw?) Apr 28 17:45:35 <_berto_> Stskeeps: hmmm... those are translation strings Apr 28 17:46:07 yeah, i know that part ;) but why libhildon depends on it Apr 28 17:46:09 <_berto_> they should be available Apr 28 17:46:16 yeah, they are as deb but not source package Apr 28 17:46:17 i'll file a bug Apr 28 17:46:22 <_berto_> thanks Apr 28 17:50:38 <_berto_> Stskeeps: that dependency is for one single string I think Apr 28 17:50:43 k Apr 28 17:51:13 i'll assume they just forgot the source, just dropped libhildon into our builder, built fine (we do some minor debian/control stuff) Apr 28 17:58:35 <_berto_> Stskeeps: just saw the bug report, thanks Apr 28 17:59:30 _berto_: always, i prefer to have zero deltas :P Apr 28 18:03:34 <_berto_> Stskeeps: obviously :) Apr 28 18:10:32 * rmt_ yawwwns. Apr 28 18:11:42 * lcuk gives rmt_ bacon bite to wake him up Apr 28 18:23:39 LASAGNA! Apr 28 18:23:51 It is truly the food of the gods. Apr 28 18:24:01 :O Apr 28 18:24:02 Or dogs, depending on who makes it. Apr 28 18:24:06 heh Apr 28 18:24:31 I once had a lasagna in Rome that I wouldn't feed to any pet of mine. Apr 28 18:25:12 I didn't know at that time that Lasagna is a north Italian dish, and you're very lucky indeed if you get a good lasagna anywhere else in Italy. Apr 28 18:33:17 heh Apr 28 18:34:51 hey timeless \o Apr 28 18:34:59 hi Apr 28 18:35:08 * timeless_mbp is trying to get msoffice.mac to not mess up Apr 28 18:35:11 * timeless_mbp is failing miserably Apr 28 18:35:17 i think it decided to eat my mailbox Apr 28 18:35:20 or maybe i'm confused :) Apr 28 18:35:32 in some situations thats not a bad thing lol Apr 28 18:37:31 Why in the world do you need that? Apr 28 18:53:40 well, i don't really Apr 28 18:53:46 but i'm trying to retire my dell Apr 28 18:53:48 and it had outlook Apr 28 18:53:53 so i was trying to setup entourage Apr 28 18:53:56 which i actually had setup Apr 28 18:54:14 but office.mac has issues w/ my system, so the SP1 thing doesn't install properly :( Apr 28 18:55:29 Entourage sucks. Apr 28 18:56:02 people say that Apr 28 18:56:07 * timeless_mbp shrugs Apr 28 18:56:10 * timeless_mbp is too hungry to care Apr 28 18:56:16 is there a picasa.mac? Apr 28 18:56:41 ooh, there is :) Apr 28 18:56:56 re Apr 28 18:56:57 What's wrong with Mail.app? Apr 28 18:57:02 Hey, Jaffa. Apr 28 18:59:29 hi Jaffa Apr 28 18:59:46 how's mail.app's exchange server support? :) Apr 28 19:00:23 Didn't they add that for Leopard? Apr 28 19:00:23 <[A2K]_> hi. Apr 28 19:00:31 <[A2K]_> how can i use user js in tear? Apr 28 19:00:36 * timeless_mbp shrugs Apr 28 19:01:07 Maybe Snow Leopard Apr 28 19:01:36 * RST38h curses Sigmatel again. Apr 28 19:01:58 These guys produce(d) decent, fast, cheap chips. But why the hell should they make 'em so complicated??? Apr 28 19:02:46 evening qgil :) Apr 28 19:03:02 congratulations on the beta release Apr 28 19:03:20 * Jaffa does the slightly tipsy train spod thing again Apr 28 19:03:49 Jaffa, was reggie perrin good then or not Apr 28 19:07:25 hi there Stskeeps - reading the feedback on the beta release here in IRC... :) Apr 28 19:07:59 lcuk: it started out a bit laughter-track heqavy, but by the end I liked it Apr 28 19:08:12 thanks Stskeeps - as usual my own merits are basically none Apr 28 19:10:21 hey qgil Apr 28 19:11:07 qgil: so how long until we can run this on a non-x86 and non-Beagleboard device? ;-)s Apr 28 19:11:36 Jaffa: what, it doesn't work as Mer on an n810? :) Apr 28 19:12:16 qgil, gotta convince more of the people with greater merits to show up here. :D Apr 28 19:12:49 Tear 0.3.1-1 > Tear 0.3-6 ? Apr 28 19:12:50 timeless_mbp: regarding Mer, not Beta yet, waiting on mb 4410 :P Apr 28 19:13:06 Not tall of it, no ;-p Apr 28 19:13:41 * timeless_mbp considers setting up OSOL on this MBP in VBox Apr 28 19:13:52 Modest looks really slick in that screenshot. Apr 28 19:13:58 Can't wait for somebody to put up a screencast. Apr 28 19:14:10 then i could try to do my mirroring from it ... Apr 28 19:14:26 GeneralAntilles: at least you have a bunch more now at https://garage.maemo.org/projects/hildon/ Apr 28 19:14:28 OSOL? Apr 28 19:14:42 * Stskeeps is happy to see libhildon no longer under wraps Apr 28 19:14:52 and https://garage.maemo.org/projects/modest/ Apr 28 19:14:53 qgil, finally getting Hildon out is really nice. Apr 28 19:16:27 qgil: does modest still have internal email lists or is deev (rather than code) now completely open? Apr 28 19:16:34 s/deev/dev/ Apr 28 19:16:35 Jaffa meant: qgil: does modest still have internal email lists or is dev (rather than code) now completely open? Apr 28 19:16:51 Jaffa: the Modest development happens now in that garage project commit by commit Apr 28 19:17:10 qgil: cool Apr 28 19:17:15 hi qgil Apr 28 19:17:24 they have no reasons to have internal only discussions, although they have plenty of internal bugs and they will continue dealing with those there Apr 28 19:17:48 any news on Denmark sponsorship - or a timeframe? Apr 28 19:18:10 Jaffa: then there is also the project management communication (sprints, priorities, deadlines) that I guess will continue being private Apr 28 19:19:04 lbt: it has been basically about me being busy lik hell before this beta release + the Mozilla crew still not having found THE hotel to place the sponsored participants Apr 28 19:19:15 sjgadsby, just a heads up, I think I'm done Thanks!-ing bug jars for now. :P Apr 28 19:19:19 Went back and hit all the old ones. Apr 28 19:19:28 Ha! Apr 28 19:19:31 heh Apr 28 19:19:34 sure - just checking that it's not about needing more info etc Apr 28 19:19:44 So, no more Thanks! whoring for you from me. :D Apr 28 19:19:59 No, I must have more power! Apr 28 19:20:23 You were catching up and I really had to pick it up to regain my lead. Apr 28 19:20:34 BTW Fremantle is 'uploaded' to OBS (for some definition of uploaded) Apr 28 19:20:36 jeremiah_: "lbt: The Software Development Kit is in pre-alpha", what do you mean? Apr 28 19:20:40 Hehe. Apr 28 19:20:51 where are the configs of apache2 located? Apr 28 19:21:19 sjgadsby! Apr 28 19:21:31 lbt: sorry but... who are you? :) email address or name I can recognize from lists/blog (my head is a waste now) Apr 28 19:21:45 david greaves Apr 28 19:21:53 aahhhm, ok now I see Apr 28 19:21:57 qt, shopper, etc :P Apr 28 19:22:02 Well, GeneralAntilles, just keep pointing people to the same old information on Fremantle, and I'll keep thanking you for doing so. That will land you two or three dozen Thanks! a day. Apr 28 19:22:03 Mer/OBS + Qt fingerscrolling Apr 28 19:22:13 yes, yes, I know Apr 28 19:22:17 hehe Apr 28 19:22:25 Hey, Jaffa. What's up? Apr 28 19:22:48 sjgadsby, it's almost too easy, isn't it? ;) Apr 28 19:23:01 sjgadsby: wonderfully laggy train wifi Apr 28 19:23:09 sjgadsby: this reminds me that I was willing to do the sticky for the Maemo 5 forum but... I thouhg better to leave it to GA or someone Apr 28 19:23:46 sjgadsby, I do, however want to echo Jaffa's comments in thanking you for being awesome. ;) Apr 28 19:24:02 That's why GA's opposed to a FAQ, qgil. He wants the Thanks! for reposting the same stuff over and over. Apr 28 19:24:05 since it's not very elegant that a Nokia employee links (or omits) interesting links especulating about potential hw etc :) Apr 28 19:24:38 lol Apr 28 19:24:58 qgil: good if you only link to the right stuff ;-) Apr 28 19:25:11 Stskeeps: you are awake? Apr 28 19:25:32 radic: no Apr 28 19:26:10 jaffa, we could always rely on the "what can we expect... threads since they contain references about any im/possible device you can build nowadays :) Apr 28 19:26:24 heh Apr 28 19:26:38 Stskeeps: can you say me where i can find the configs and www folder of the apache2 port? Apr 28 19:26:55 radic: no idea sorry. /var/www and /etc/apache2 would be a good shot. Apr 28 19:27:01 qgil: free research ;) Apr 28 19:27:25 SWhat do you realistically expect to see in th N900?" "10 hr battery life actively browsing!" Apr 28 19:27:44 jeremiah_: "I guess I missed the alpha, or did we go from pre-alpha to beta?" heh :) Apr 28 19:27:55 Jaffa: 10mins :) Apr 28 19:28:20 http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0/ has a bad link (for now) to the source Apr 28 19:28:32 Stskeeps: i thought the same Apr 28 19:28:42 i suppose nokia could get the RTG powersource up and running in time Apr 28 19:29:17 I thought they were moving to Zero Point Modules? Apr 28 19:29:26 Jaffa, don't forget playing music, too! Apr 28 19:29:27 I think the N900 should come with a nail file Apr 28 19:29:33 sjgadsby: star gates are expensive to run... Apr 28 19:29:40 post it in the thread then! Apr 28 19:29:46 and then there's the explosive tendencies of naquada Apr 28 19:29:52 zero point might be good for a gravity gun Apr 28 19:29:52 to sharpen fingernails to a point so you don't need a stylus... Apr 28 19:29:58 * Jaffa kree Apr 28 19:29:59 but not really practical Apr 28 19:30:40 lbt, im SERIOUSLY thinking about getting a stylus attachment Apr 28 19:30:50 lcuk: for your finger? Apr 28 19:30:53 yeah :D Apr 28 19:30:59 lbt, Nokia should offer free finger surgery. Apr 28 19:31:03 I told him... he needs a 6mm hex socket Apr 28 19:31:04 it might make me feel a bit better lol Apr 28 19:31:09 lbt: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0/ fixd and thanks Apr 28 19:31:15 lcuk: but won't a little trackball be better? Apr 28 19:31:28 \o hey qgil, can i offer you some more garlic? Apr 28 19:31:49 I'm well served today, thanks Apr 28 19:31:54 heh Apr 28 19:32:15 alright, and now to answer a couple of things in ITt Apr 28 19:32:17 lcuk: got some nice wooden stakes? Apr 28 19:32:40 I have seen that expectation that the jump from beta to final could be as short as from alpha to beta Apr 28 19:32:41 no, but having the stitches felt like bamboo torture Apr 28 19:32:56 beta as out? Apr 28 19:32:56 heh fremantle build-essential failed to build.... Apr 28 19:32:59 is Apr 28 19:33:28 GeneralAntilles: : and counsellling for all the people distraught at the changes to "their" pplatform Apr 28 19:33:49 qgil: Fremantle target for MaemoSDK+. Please. Apr 28 19:34:13 i thought there was one? Apr 28 19:34:20 On the other hand, it won't be of much use if QEMU does not run properly =( Apr 28 19:34:30 Sts: Not according to MaemoSDK+ site Apr 28 19:34:34 Jaffa, I can't help but imagine that most of it is kneejerk irrationality. Apr 28 19:34:42 I experienced a bit of it myself, so I'm thinking it should pass. ;) Apr 28 19:34:53 RST38h: the latest SDK+ should have much improved qemu Apr 28 19:35:14 suihkulokki it is backported to sb1 too Apr 28 19:35:29 suihkulokki: Fremantle notes say that developers should use x86 target and avoid armel because qemu is still broken Apr 28 19:36:07 suihkulokki: So, I guess it is real hardware or bust. Apr 28 19:36:29 RST38h: yes, it should come - if you want to lobby you can do it at https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-sdk/ :) Apr 28 19:36:43 RST38h: we just got a new qemu drop internally last week iirc Apr 28 19:36:52 suihkulokki can forward too Apr 28 19:36:57 i'm not sure if there's an equivalent public sbox drop Apr 28 19:37:04 but i'd assume there is/was/will be Apr 28 19:37:25 any thanks about qemu can be directed to suihkulokki Apr 28 19:37:36 qgil: I already wrote to Jukka Pekka Apr 28 19:38:05 qgil: Hope he will put in a word in favor of this Apr 28 19:38:39 timeless_mbp: already in public scratchbox.org and Maemo SDK+ drop :) Apr 28 19:38:41 RST38h: it should come, like the beagle, the Qt... it's just that we are releasing almost as soon as we can without waiting much for the others Apr 28 19:38:55 oh good :) Apr 28 19:39:16 now for the next releases there will be more bugfixs and incremental improvements than anything else, so we can wait a bit more to sync everything on a same day Apr 28 19:39:54 qgil: is there some reason why status area and the task switcher are still not there, btw? Apr 28 19:40:04 RST38h: well the problem is that people want to do silly things like us scratchbox as a system simulator Apr 28 19:40:31 suihkulokki: People don't have much of a choice I guess... :) Apr 28 19:40:40 RST38h: system qemu :) Apr 28 19:41:02 qgil: any thoughts on native fingerscrolling in Qt for fremantle? Apr 28 19:41:32 suihkulokki: actually platform vs. application mode simulation is the old argument Apr 28 19:41:42 did you see the youtube vid? Apr 28 19:41:53 RST38h: yes, there is. task switcher is considered a relevant end user feature and it's being left for later as it doesn't provide anything relevant to developers Apr 28 19:41:56 suihkulokki: with application mode people usually losing it, in most cases ) Apr 28 19:42:03 qgil: Ah Apr 28 19:42:24 RST38h: status area *could* be out in a next beta release, it's about looking a bit more to it. Apr 28 19:42:49 RST38h: developers can develop status area plugins, so they need it in the sdk to check and test Apr 28 19:44:01 qgil, we need the status area for Advanced Backlight. ;) Apr 28 19:44:26 GeneralAntilles: oh, that's real important w/o hardware Apr 28 19:44:28 GeneralAntilles: I see, but what features would be missing in Fremantle? Apr 28 19:44:41 qgil: backlight lives in the status bar Apr 28 19:44:45 w/o it, you can't do anything Apr 28 19:44:57 timeless_mbp: I know Apr 28 19:45:14 I'm asking what features provided by AB are missing in the Fremantle stock OS Apr 28 19:45:19 but seriously, i don't see the point in worrying about backlight w/o hardware Apr 28 19:45:26 technically iirc backlight can control audio too Apr 28 19:45:30 which could be testable Apr 28 19:45:41 iirc the audio stack has changed for fremantle Apr 28 19:45:42 Hey how do I purge a program? sudo apt-get purge "program" Apr 28 19:45:43 ? Apr 28 19:45:45 qgil, having not seen any Fremantle statusbar applets, I can't say. Apr 28 19:45:51 so it's probably justifiable Apr 28 19:46:05 GeneralAntilles: do you have anywhere the list of features provided by AB? Apr 28 19:46:13 GeneralAntilles: can you reply to reggie with .org? This connection's too laggy, and all I've got is modest Apr 28 19:46:19 qgil, at the very least, I doubt very much you guys are providing a combined backlight/volume applets. Apr 28 19:46:35 qgil, the Downloads etry? Apr 28 19:46:40 s/etry/entry/ Apr 28 19:46:40 GeneralAntilles meant: qgil, the Downloads entry? Apr 28 19:47:08 What's the syntax to purge a program? why is sudo apt-get purge "program" wrong? Apr 28 19:47:10 Finer grained backlight control, a combined applet, eventually a improved control panels for both. Apr 28 19:47:23 Jaffa, in a bit. Apr 28 19:47:42 DavidePalm: thing of dpkg --purge ? Apr 28 19:48:05 GeneralAntilles: ta - I should be home in quarter of an hour or so Apr 28 19:48:14 Jaffa idk does that work too? not very good at linux Apr 28 19:48:37 Jaffa I was just looking at the apt-get options and "purge" seemed like what I needed, but I can't make it work Apr 28 19:48:39 fFiner grained backlight control is expected to be in the sales release Apr 28 19:48:44 hi Apr 28 19:48:56 DavidePalm: apt-get remove --purge Apr 28 19:49:09 a combined applet, well the backlight is still in the control panel - not sure how essential that is Apr 28 19:49:15 aquatix thanks Apr 28 19:49:22 qgil, fine grained enough to support all available levels of backlight? Apr 28 19:50:12 Apr 28 19:50:19 GeneralAntilles: I would need to check, but it should go from very very dark to vry very bright with the same widget used by the volume Apr 28 19:50:37 egyptian Apr 28 19:50:37 GeneralAntilles: as said in the FIXED enhancement request, btw Apr 28 19:51:11 qgil: Here is a rather weird question; Apr 28 19:51:13 oh noes Apr 28 19:51:17 qgil, anyway, put the status bar area in the next beta or don't I don't have the energy or free brain power at the moment to try to play the justtification game. . . . Apr 28 19:51:21 my bf wants to install scratchbox Apr 28 19:51:25 this'll be painful Apr 28 19:51:31 "come and help me install it" Apr 28 19:51:43 qgil: Will the new OS version / hardware return valid pressure values for the stylus? Apr 28 19:51:58 Myrtti: talk him out of it! Apr 28 19:51:59 Myrtti, its quite simple, ive even managed it a few times now! Apr 28 19:52:17 Myrtti: Install SB2! Apr 28 19:52:27 GeneralAntilles: yes, sure. I only want to say that a) putting it or not doesn't depend of BA and b) I think Fremantle actually has taken your feedback and provides to users what you were offering before - no intent of argue now :) Apr 28 19:52:49 qgil: any thoughts on how I get my native fingerscrolling in Qt for fremantle? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TxAIScXQvk Apr 28 19:52:51 RST38h: it is indeed a weird question :) Apr 28 19:53:28 RST38h: same or better "pressure values for the stylus", I guess Apr 28 19:53:29 * suihkulokki thinks we should provide MER and {ubuntu,debian}-armel targets in maemo-sdk+ too Apr 28 19:53:31 qgil: The basic reasn is that there are a few applications using the pressure value and some people who would like to use tablets for painting Apr 28 19:53:43 now that we don't depend on sb1, it should be feasible Apr 28 19:53:59 qgil: but the values returned by n8x0 devices are both somewhat bogus and uneven across the sensor Apr 28 19:54:00 lbt: for Qt stuff you better ask the Qt4Maemo project since I have no idea myself Apr 28 19:54:12 qgil, you'll forgive me if I'm dubious about Nokia providing what we want. ;) Apr 28 19:54:28 GeneralAntilles: now it's me the one tired to discuss ;) Apr 28 19:54:44 suihkulokki: Either that, or our friend Stskeeps will just go with OpenEmbedded, screwing SB completely Apr 28 19:54:48 .. Apr 28 19:54:51 OE? Apr 28 19:54:53 are you insane? Apr 28 19:54:54 :P Apr 28 19:55:00 Sts: Is it worse? =) Apr 28 19:55:11 qgil, anyway, there are a lot of planned advanced backlight features that I know Nokia isn't implementing in their stock applets. Apr 28 19:55:13 RST38h: we have gone with OBS, :P Apr 28 19:55:13 * RST38h uses OE for the Sigmatel stuff, it seems ok Apr 28 19:55:16 RST38h: if you point to the bug(s) you are referring to I can tell more (there are different issues in Diablo and I'm not sure which one worries you now) Apr 28 19:55:24 qgil, and rm_you is just about to have free time to develop them again. Apr 28 19:55:38 qgil: I do not think there is a bug report for the stylus pressure Apr 28 19:56:01 GeneralAntilles: sure, as said it is also our interest to activate the status area in the sdk so we can allow developers like rm_you do whatever please them Apr 28 19:56:10 qgil: And it IS partially a hardware issue having to do with displays being slightly bent when mounted into n8x0s Apr 28 19:56:41 RST38h, pressure is available and readable on 8x0? Apr 28 19:56:52 qgil: The verify that, turn your tablet at ~30o angle to a fluorescent light and look at the screen Apr 28 19:56:55 * lcuk makes use of it Apr 28 19:56:55 lcuk: yep Apr 28 19:57:25 RST38h: I recall one that could be reproduced in Diablo by drawing 1001 traces with the Sketch in certain way, I resoved as FIXED in Fremantle since I couldn't reproduce what I reproduced in Diablo/N810 Apr 28 19:57:26 lcuk: except that it isn't reliable Apr 28 19:57:51 qgil: This sounds more like a problem with Sketch :) Apr 28 19:57:55 RST38h, think the reliability is a hardware or software thing? Apr 28 19:58:06 RST38h: no, it was a problem detecting pressure of the stylus Apr 28 19:58:15 if you can reliably press with the same pressure anywhere repeatadly on any touchscreen then ill give you a beer Apr 28 19:58:24 sjgadsby maybe recalls the bug Apr 28 19:58:24 johnx: Depends, but I usually make effort to make my software 100% reliable Apr 28 19:58:30 qgil: Oh Apr 28 19:58:44 RST38h, that's not the Unix way :) Apr 28 19:58:50 lcuk: Well, touchpads somehow manage it :) Apr 28 19:58:51 qgil: It sounds familiar, but I'd have to search for it. Apr 28 19:59:11 johnx: I worked for an ATC software vendor. Apr 28 19:59:13 RST38h, i did notice that the threshhold on my old 810 was screwed .. Apr 28 19:59:34 johnx: Mistakes can be VERY costly in ATC Apr 28 19:59:45 lcuk: you are not alone Apr 28 19:59:53 the replacement from the summit that hadnt been leaned on worked perfectly (it was when i did the multitouch thing months ago Apr 28 20:00:17 and I've noticed my touchscreen has been getting less sensitive over the years Apr 28 20:00:33 is the right side less sensitive than the left side? Apr 28 20:00:34 isnt that expected? Apr 28 20:00:44 no, mine is left side where i stroke more Apr 28 20:00:51 centre portion Apr 28 20:00:54 no idea, not familiar enough with the technology Apr 28 20:00:54 yeah, but I really have to mash on it now, and drag-to-scroll tends to get interpreted as a series of clicks Apr 28 20:00:55 RST38h: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2844 Apr 28 20:01:03 RST38h, I have a deadish area on the left side of my n800 Apr 28 20:01:27 johnx, might be possible to adjust the threshhold x11 uses to convert from the raw values Apr 28 20:01:39 qgil: That's not it, only deals with coordinates Apr 28 20:01:41 i dont know enough to know tho Apr 28 20:01:52 probably possible to tweak it at the tslib level, under X11 actually ... Apr 28 20:02:09 qgil: But I can confirm that THIS bug also occurs to me Apr 28 20:02:20 Hey I'm following the maemo.org guide to partition to install boot on the memory card. It talks about a 1 GB SD Card. I have a 2GB SD, would it be more beneficial to make the first partition bigger than 480MB? Is the VFAT Partition the one where the system will boot from? Apr 28 20:02:21 RST38h, to find out more read up on touchscreens in nintendo DSs - they commonly die (much worse than nokias from what i know) kids are harder on them Apr 28 20:02:32 yes johnx Apr 28 20:02:38 but x11 uses a fixed threshold Apr 28 20:02:43 lcuk: My kid has a generic GBA Apr 28 20:02:45 from the reporting in tslib Apr 28 20:03:05 lcuk: no touch screen, and I routinely buy used games for $5 apiece when in US Apr 28 20:03:44 lcuk: But it is almost unimaginable what torture GBA can survive Apr 28 20:03:51 dantonic, not it does not boot from VFAT. Apr 28 20:03:56 dantonic, the filesystem will be on the ext2/3 part. the vfat is just for storing files and can be accessed by a computer when plugged into the tablet by usb Apr 28 20:04:37 qgil, really, the most important part, adv-backlight is open source. Apr 28 20:05:17 GeneralAntilles: ah yes Apr 28 20:05:31 and community built :D Apr 28 20:06:03 benny1967 "Looks a lot like S60." - I guess we have different experiences with S60 (or Maemo 5) Apr 28 20:06:40 qwerty12 needs to compile XChat etc so these people will quiet down. Apr 28 20:12:22 what? beta desktop is still not the full version? Apr 28 20:12:32 any reason why scp would hang when starting a copy? Apr 28 20:12:36 is there any diff to alpha version? Apr 28 20:12:36 konttori_, fun, right? Apr 28 20:12:42 Modest is in there now. Apr 28 20:12:44 APIs are frozen Apr 28 20:12:48 * konttori_ still cannot release theme maker Apr 28 20:12:56 if desktop is not full Apr 28 20:13:05 We seem to be simultaneously ahead of and behind the roadmap. Apr 28 20:13:05 lcuk: connection problem Apr 28 20:13:12 ssh works flawlessly Apr 28 20:14:12 not that them maker would be really needed until the device is in the hands of people Apr 28 20:14:14 im asking it to copy a 60mb folder Apr 28 20:14:29 lcuk: It may be scanning files Apr 28 20:14:34 filenames really Apr 28 20:14:39 konttori_, I know the synthesize.us people would appreciate it, though. Apr 28 20:15:41 hmm... but they propably are willing to wait until getting the full stuff. Apr 28 20:16:16 anyway, great that the beta is out! Apr 28 20:16:23 * konttori_ goes to bed Apr 28 20:16:24 does anyone here boot from the flashcard? Apr 28 20:16:46 GeneralAntilles I know you do right? Apr 28 20:17:00 dantonic, yeah. Apr 28 20:17:41 GeneralAntilles when partitioning, is the VFAT partition the one that it will boot from? and what's the linux_83 partition? Apr 28 20:17:58 No, as said by johnx and myself earlier, VFAT is for filestorage and swap. Apr 28 20:18:07 dantonic, it boots from the linux partition Apr 28 20:18:11 oh sorry msust have missed it Apr 28 20:18:11 It boots from the EXT2/3 partition (linux_83) Apr 28 20:18:21 for some reason it didnt highlight Apr 28 20:18:26 ok Apr 28 20:18:28 I apologize Apr 28 20:18:32 no problem :) Apr 28 20:19:15 how is the beta out and there's not announcement on planet maemo? Apr 28 20:19:31 so If I'm partitioning a 2gb card.. should I double it? do I need double the swap? or probably can go with still 480mb for the swap? Apr 28 20:19:32 Announcement is in announcements Apr 28 20:19:57 Swap really shouldn't be more than RAM Apr 28 20:20:43 so 480 is already too much? how much ram we got in these guys anyway I forget Apr 28 20:21:22 128MB Apr 28 20:21:29 Well, 480MB gives you some room for filestorage Apr 28 20:21:42 Are you planning on attaching this tablet to a Windows or OS X machine? Apr 28 20:21:46 ah ok... well I have an 8GB external card Apr 28 20:22:09 GeneralAntilles what do you mean by "attaching"? Apr 28 20:27:58 dantonic, connecting with USB Apr 28 20:34:51 GeneralAntilles, yes to windows Apr 28 20:38:29 Hey after a flash does restoring settings and e-mail does only that? I kinda want a fresh install, but would be nice to just let it configure my internet and e-mail settings automatically. Apr 28 20:39:05 will it clutter the tablet up with any of the previous stuff other than just the basic settings? Apr 28 20:39:30 it depends on what you choose to restore, IIRC Apr 28 20:39:44 I chose just settings and e-mail Apr 28 20:39:55 johnx Apr 28 20:43:53 mmmh... anybody knows why the bash package was removed from Extras? Apr 28 20:50:16 It will be interesting to see how many beta sdk related news feature a maemo.org logo :) http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/04/maemo-5-sdk-is-now-in-beta-get-developing Apr 28 20:50:52 qgil: Is there even a Maemo logo ;) Apr 28 20:51:43 Yeah, you need some kind of graphic to use. Apr 28 20:52:16 Announcements are on maemo.org, too. Apr 28 20:52:57 The same problem you have when we want people to find us in google. People search for Nokia N810, we don't talk about N810 at all ;) Apr 28 20:53:23 us = ? Apr 28 20:53:27 It'd probably improve pretty quickly if Nokia put out some kind of Maemo logo. Apr 28 20:53:34 It seems we need to mix in a little of Nokia in maemo.org and a bit of maemo.org in Nokia's marketing ;) Apr 28 20:53:54 timeless_mbp: maemo.org, sorry. Apr 28 20:54:21 X-Fade, you see the wiki patch? Apr 28 20:54:47 lol, the capitalization on the

here is pretty classy: http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/logos/ Apr 28 20:55:21 GeneralAntilles: No, just dropping by. Couch surfing ;) Apr 28 20:55:46 GeneralAntilles: Heh, that is CSS capitalization ;) Apr 28 20:55:48 X-Fade, you know you're not allowed to be in here and not be pestered by work, right? :P Apr 28 20:55:52 hey when I do apt-get install e2fsprogs Apr 28 20:56:07 I get package not available Apr 28 20:56:09 /ignore GeneralAntilles Apr 28 20:56:15 Oh, did I say that out loud? :) Apr 28 20:56:20 * GeneralAntilles sends in the clones. Apr 28 20:56:28 lol GeneralAntilles Apr 28 20:56:47 in that UMPCportal article: "More info about Freeemantle" - first time I see it spelled with 3 "e", influence of certain UMPC? Apr 28 20:58:18 Btw, did people notice the HIG? http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/hig/html/index.html Apr 28 20:58:32 OMG, a public HIG Apr 28 20:58:34 Or HHIG in this case ;) Apr 28 20:58:35 did it leak or something? Apr 28 20:58:42 I say we should just go with the flow and let people use as many e's as they're comfortable with. Apr 28 20:59:02 freeeeeeeeeeeemntl! Apr 28 21:00:02 The a, however, is an absolute requirement, johnx. :P Apr 28 21:00:22 Heh web 2.0 branding ;) Apr 28 21:00:54 GeneralAntilles, I was just helping confused google searchers find the IRC logs :) Apr 28 21:00:56 We should start planning for a maemo.org April Fool's now. ;) Apr 28 21:00:59 johnx: actually this is a good idea - someone could spread the rumor that the HIG is a leak of internal information, so all developers will look at them :) Apr 28 21:01:05 hey X-Fade : https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Albt%3AFremantle%3ABeta Apr 28 21:01:07 Ha! Apr 28 21:01:14 they will be nicer when they are full of screenshots and graphical examples, though Apr 28 21:01:57 lbt: what does that link mean, asks this tired brain today Apr 28 21:02:02 I really want a maemo.org cloak Apr 28 21:02:03 qgil, I'll leak it to engadget whenever you give the word :> Apr 28 21:02:09 X-Fade, Freenode hasn't contacted you yet, have they? Apr 28 21:02:18 GeneralAntilles: Nope, black hole. Apr 28 21:02:24 Bleh Apr 28 21:02:28 qgil: it's the OBS upload of Fremantle free stuff - not started a compile yet Apr 28 21:02:32 lbt: Something for me to look at tomorrow. Apr 28 21:02:51 but Stskeeps just pulled some into Mer... we'll have it out there RSN ;) Apr 28 21:03:05 I haven't been able to update the autobuilder yet, because I haven't been able to get the nokia-binaries repo yet ;) Apr 28 21:03:11 lbt: and this is useful for... Apr 28 21:03:12 So that is also something for tomorrow ;) Apr 28 21:03:24 OBS or the Fremantle upload? Apr 28 21:03:33 the Fremantle upload Apr 28 21:03:47 Stskeeps has already used the Fremantle libhildon in Mer Apr 28 21:03:52 about 10 mins ago Apr 28 21:04:01 nah, 5 hours ago :P Apr 28 21:04:19 yeah 5 mins was : copied Fremantle:Beta osso-af-utils to Maemo:Mer:Devel:MaemoCommon Apr 28 21:04:37 ;) Apr 28 21:04:40 lbt: ah ok, so you compile those sources for Mer? Apr 28 21:04:45 yes Apr 28 21:05:02 qgil: we're also experimenting with OBS and Maemo as it is, i think :) Apr 28 21:05:04 and if we find any build/compile issues we can feed them back Apr 28 21:05:21 cool, thanks Apr 28 21:05:28 eg hardcoded scratchbox Apr 28 21:05:40 bad build-depends Apr 28 21:05:52 lbt: Next step is to fix these bugs yourself in the git repo :D Apr 28 21:05:57 that kind of thing.... OBS builds from raw disk up every time... Apr 28 21:06:03 last words before I go to sleep: lbt tomorrow I will look to the queue of sponsorship requests to the Danish Weekend Apr 28 21:06:11 I hope you get more Mer contributors there! Apr 28 21:06:11 X-Fade: next step is the large amount of patches to send in :P Apr 28 21:06:14 gosh, a public git repo... great idea Apr 28 21:06:29 it should be one of the main concrete and tangible support action we do for the Mer project Apr 28 21:06:35 qgil: thanks - appreciated Apr 28 21:06:37 lbt: Hildon and modest are now in public git, so start there ;) Apr 28 21:06:56 *nod* and we're grateful, - it's just difficult to get people to show up sometimes :) Apr 28 21:07:06 qemu also got bit improvements in this beta btw. Apr 28 21:07:09 X-Fade: I'm nagging GnutOnMobile to include my fingerscrolling for Fremantle Apr 28 21:07:11 *big Apr 28 21:07:14 the Ui guy, what's his name... Apr 28 21:07:27 wazd Apr 28 21:07:33 he can't leave russia Apr 28 21:07:34 that one, is he coming? Apr 28 21:07:36 vlads friend Apr 28 21:07:36 else i'm sure he would :P Apr 28 21:07:43 (military stuff..) Apr 28 21:07:47 he has problems bigger than vlads Apr 28 21:07:52 Stskeeps: ahm Apr 28 21:08:02 webcast him Apr 28 21:08:19 and that long list of "Thanks to" in your releases? Apr 28 21:08:53 people making big or small contributions - we do have a fair bit of people and i've advertised a lot Apr 28 21:09:13 We're sending lardman to talk qwerty12's parents into letting him out of the house. ;0 Apr 28 21:09:20 hahah Apr 28 21:09:20 s/0/)/ Apr 28 21:09:21 GeneralAntilles meant: We're sending lardman to talk qwerty12's parents into letting him out of the house. ;) Apr 28 21:09:26 What about ScriptRipper? Apr 28 21:09:28 anyway, I won't insist more - there is a budget and will be spent Apr 28 21:09:37 Anyone here kind enough to share the latest initrd.jffs2 with bootmenu installed? :) Apr 28 21:09:46 lbt: think he should just apply and let's see what happens Apr 28 21:09:56 bbl Apr 28 21:10:00 l8r Apr 28 21:10:05 * Stskeeps needs sleep before linear algebra classes :( Apr 28 21:10:18 gtssyat. Apr 28 21:10:19 me too, without the algebra Apr 28 21:10:37 gnite qgil \o Apr 28 21:10:44 good night! Apr 28 21:11:02 qgil good night Apr 28 21:11:18 shout louder ScriptRipper lol Apr 28 21:11:45 lcuk i was too latew Apr 28 21:12:15 ScriptRipper: you applied for Danish weekend at all? Apr 28 21:12:51 I owe you a beer (or...) at least! Apr 28 21:13:07 at this point I think I might possibly be able to attend. need to get a request in before qgil looks at them tomorrow :> Apr 28 21:14:09 lbt: not yet Apr 28 21:14:40 lbt: what must i do? Apr 28 21:15:01 looking Apr 28 21:15:32 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Hackfest_Copenhagen_09 Apr 28 21:15:55 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend Apr 28 21:19:25 X-Fade: ping Apr 28 21:19:33 for mer follow instructions in http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=278371&postcount=7 Apr 28 21:19:41 why is wiki.maemo.org sporting beta-free branding while maemo.org sports a beta? Apr 28 21:19:50 I got an N810 WiMAX \o/ Apr 28 21:20:08 LiraNuna: wow, where, how, how much? Apr 28 21:20:08 LiraNuna: give it to me now! Apr 28 21:20:15 :D Apr 28 21:20:21 it's from some shop Apr 28 21:20:27 took shitload of time to deliver Apr 28 21:20:29 how much did you pay? Apr 28 21:20:33 450$ Apr 28 21:21:05 hmm Apr 28 21:21:12 http://www.cell2get.com/ < I'm warning, if you DO want it, it'll take a lot of time to delive Apr 28 21:21:14 erk :) Apr 28 21:21:17 I bought this april 2nd Apr 28 21:21:21 I got it now Apr 28 21:21:35 konichiwa everyone! Apr 28 21:21:41 * xnt clicks Apr 28 21:21:48 seems like a high premium for wimax :) Apr 28 21:22:09 LiraNuna: who's offering wimax near you and what's the cost for the data plan? Apr 28 21:22:49 timeless, I'm in SF, it'll have wimax in the ner future Apr 28 21:23:03 I got WiMAX to future proof it Apr 28 21:23:26 amterdam has wimax now but I did not try it yet Apr 28 21:23:30 heh Apr 28 21:23:33 liranuna: :( Apr 28 21:23:38 * xnt wants wimax Apr 28 21:23:43 in his area Apr 28 21:23:47 nyc Apr 28 21:23:53 * new city Apr 28 21:23:55 :P Apr 28 21:24:32 there's wimax where I live, but not mobile wimax and not on n810W's frequency band :) Apr 28 21:24:56 same here :/ Apr 28 21:25:43 ham radio license + backyard radio tower/repeater + n180 = free wimax! :) Apr 28 21:26:01 are there different wimaxes bugger Apr 28 21:26:11 Amusingly I pay less for unmetered 2mbit/s 3G/Edge than I pay for non-mobile wimax :) Apr 28 21:26:55 damn the black color is just so sexy Apr 28 21:29:05 ShadowJK: how many different wimax bands are there?? Apr 28 21:29:17 Lots Apr 28 21:30:31 timeless_mbp, this has some numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deployed_WiMAX_networks Apr 28 21:31:44 * timeless_mbp boggles @ 802.16 d v. e Apr 28 21:33:06 timeless_mbp, did you file a bug about the wiki? Apr 28 21:33:10 no Apr 28 21:33:14 i'm about to go home Apr 28 21:33:18 OK, I'll do that. Apr 28 21:33:18 please file Apr 28 21:33:26 i wouldn't even know which is right/wrong :) Apr 28 21:33:44 besides, sp3000 pointed to the non beta thing :) -- but he left for home already Apr 28 21:39:46 skype can do video right? Apr 28 21:43:47 LiraNuna, not on the tablets Apr 28 21:43:48 not on nit Apr 28 21:44:39 crap Apr 28 21:44:57 it has a cam ;( Apr 28 21:45:05 yup, but skype won't support it Apr 28 21:45:10 gizmo video works pretty well Apr 28 21:45:30 oh Apr 28 21:45:56 rm_you|, hey :D Apr 28 21:46:10 LiraNuna, skype's video codec is really heavy and they don't feel like optimizing it, it seems Apr 28 21:46:16 haha Apr 28 21:46:29 is it possible to ssh directly into a scratchbox session or do i need to login after connecting? Apr 28 21:46:34 very green on my n800 Apr 28 21:46:41 @gizmo Apr 28 21:46:52 lcuk: is your scratchbox running sshd? Apr 28 21:46:54 'lo johnx Apr 28 21:47:13 dunno lbt, assume no right now Apr 28 21:47:23 lcuk is scratchboxing? roflcopter Apr 28 21:47:29 lcuk, you should use screen :) Apr 28 21:47:39 dont confuse me even more :| Apr 28 21:47:46 the laptop will be up and down lol Apr 28 21:48:10 actually _dl9pf_ just ran OBS on an N810... worked first time Apr 28 21:48:16 * rm_you| whips out his roflcopter and flies around Apr 28 21:48:20 rm_you, http://liqbase.net/fingerfriendly.jpg Apr 28 21:48:25 ooo Apr 28 21:48:39 so what is that supposed to be> Apr 28 21:48:40 ? Apr 28 21:48:46 oh Apr 28 21:48:47 ack! Apr 28 21:48:49 bet you cant guess how or where that happened Apr 28 21:48:59 n800ing? :P Apr 28 21:49:00 he bit his fingernails Apr 28 21:49:11 heh Apr 28 21:49:18 typing too vigerously on the virtual keyboard? Apr 28 21:49:37 accidentally got bacon-fat on his finger Apr 28 21:49:44 lcuk: file a "need pressure calibration for x11 click threshold" bug? include that grid with blackhole you get if you draw with uniform pressure across the screen? Apr 28 21:49:45 heh once it stops hurting and i can type properly again im, thin,ing of adding a stylus Apr 28 21:50:26 ShadowJK, why should i file a bug, i use pressure sensitive reading anyway and dont notice Apr 28 21:50:38 oh Apr 28 21:50:42 jeez. was that seriously from tablet use? O_o; Apr 28 21:50:48 its only in gtk/x11 stuff that the threshhold is wrong Apr 28 21:51:06 heh johnx, it was a nokia ovi Apr 28 21:51:16 aaah Apr 28 21:51:17 gotcha Apr 28 21:51:25 wait, is that your finger or not? Apr 28 21:51:27 yes Apr 28 21:51:41 i cant drive or move most of my hand Apr 28 21:51:50 so, hows the new SDK?) Apr 28 21:52:11 well, hope that heals up quick lcuk. Apr 28 21:52:15 I'm off for now Apr 28 21:52:23 so dp i Apr 28 21:52:25 o Apr 28 21:52:43 Rst38h should file it then :) Apr 28 21:52:56 since he noticed it Apr 28 21:53:05 tho the way quim said it was tested Apr 28 21:53:13 ie there was a bug filed already Apr 28 21:53:36 lbt, can i just install sshd into scratchbox then? Apr 28 21:53:51 you _can_ Apr 28 21:53:53 and does scratchbox have its own ip? Apr 28 21:53:57 dunno about should Apr 28 21:54:02 no Apr 28 21:54:12 ok, so if i use normal ssh on the lappy Apr 28 21:54:15 it'll conflict if you already run sshd Apr 28 21:54:16 yup Apr 28 21:54:19 it would be awesome if you could calibrate sensitive are of screen to be as insensitive as the least sensitive are of the screen, so that it takes equal pressure across entire screen to register as click Apr 28 21:54:19 can i run a script on login Apr 28 21:54:43 you should be able to Apr 28 21:54:53 ShadowJK, give the tablet a pair of glasses Apr 28 21:54:55 ah, you mean when you login to ssh? Apr 28 21:54:58 yeah Apr 28 21:55:10 what does glasses for tablet do... Apr 28 21:55:15 lcuk: ssh -t host scratchbox Apr 28 21:55:47 what do you want to do lcuk? Apr 28 21:55:52 you can simplify that w/ a script 'scratchbox' on the host :) Apr 28 21:55:59 simply be in sb when you login? Apr 28 21:56:00 I think having a script that runs at login all the time, might potentially cause problems Apr 28 21:56:10 heh yeah Apr 28 21:56:11 wot johnx said Apr 28 21:56:16 timeless, thanks Apr 28 21:56:34 note that you can run sshd on an alternate port, but it's really not worth it Apr 28 21:56:57 if its on a internal lan, add a iface for the scratchbox to have its sshd on? Apr 28 21:56:58 you should really just use screen. it's pretty simple Apr 28 21:56:59 no agreed, just confuses an already confusing situation Apr 28 21:57:10 its not johnx Apr 28 21:57:11 (alias that is) Apr 28 21:57:12 you can get clever w/ a .ssh/config file which offers 'scratchbox' and commands and stuff Apr 28 21:57:14 the laptop goes up and down Apr 28 21:57:35 but yeah, personally, i'd probably use screen Apr 28 21:57:43 in fact, i'm pretty sure that's what i actually do use :) Apr 28 21:58:01 personally i'd use native building but with only an sdk its a bit hard Apr 28 21:58:37 * lcuk understands simple direct on the metal working Apr 28 21:59:08 * johnx understands the limitations of that :) Apr 28 21:59:17 painfully understands ... Apr 28 21:59:36 yeah but its not a problem for the stuffs i wanna build Apr 28 21:59:44 yeah, to each his own Apr 28 21:59:48 heh Apr 28 21:59:52 but screen would still help you Apr 28 21:59:59 screen = best thing since sliced bread Apr 28 22:00:20 sliced bacon? :P Apr 28 22:00:23 mmmmmm Apr 28 22:08:10 lcuk, I know you like my crappy screencasts, so here another one: http://www.valeriovalerio.org/?p=225 Apr 28 22:08:12 :P Apr 28 22:09:45 special attention to the icon colors around 1:15 :P Apr 28 22:10:04 Woo! Crappy screencasts! Apr 28 22:10:27 * johnx likes the mer app menus better :> Apr 28 22:12:23 VDVsx_, is Modest in there? Apr 28 22:12:42 GeneralAntilles, no Apr 28 22:12:52 * timeless_mbp notes that some of the things VDVsx is showing off are not the way they will be in final Apr 28 22:13:16 Nokia really needs to invest some time in helping their artwork team figure out that the screen resolution is 800x480 Apr 28 22:13:24 s/:>/than the current beta/ Apr 28 22:13:26 Scaled up desktop images are just plain amateur. Apr 28 22:13:36 GeneralAntilles: eh? Apr 28 22:14:06 The godawful pixelated desktop image. Apr 28 22:14:24 timeless_mbp, I expect so, I discovered a lot of visual defects in this release Apr 28 22:14:57 GeneralAntilles: so... the squiggly thing Apr 28 22:15:03 for one, it's gone in recent versions Apr 28 22:15:12 however i don't recall it being pixelated on device Apr 28 22:15:23 are you sure VDVsx was running at true aspect ratio? Apr 28 22:15:28 Higher DPI probably hides or something. Apr 28 22:15:49 GeneralAntilles, neither here, is youtube sucking up the video Apr 28 22:15:50 Anyway, it doesn't show well in any of the screenshots or screencasts I've seen. Apr 28 22:16:19 http://static.maemo.org/static/m/Maemo5_alpha__SDK_Desktop.png Apr 28 22:16:40 hrm Apr 28 22:16:52 16bpp is also bad with gradients. Apr 28 22:20:17 GeneralAntilles, yap, you are right is a little bit pixelated here too Apr 28 22:23:20 but the coolest feature is around 1:16, anybody noticed that one? :P Apr 28 22:23:22 anyone know if maemo mapper is broken for google? Apr 28 22:24:31 VDVsx, what, the desktop shortcuts? Apr 28 22:25:10 GeneralAntilles, look at the icons color in maemopad Apr 28 22:25:28 it change with a mouse over, lolol Apr 28 22:26:01 lol Apr 28 22:26:02 Nice Apr 28 22:26:45 Hi, I've just installed Scratchbox on Ubuntu 8.10 but Xephyr gives an error about DESKTOP when it starts up Apr 28 22:27:27 :-) Apr 28 22:27:29 Xoo starts, but using 'select device' to choose N800 doesn't actually change to the N800 simulator, any idea what could be wrong? Apr 28 22:27:46 nokia guys probably noticed the visual bugs, but anyway I will made some annotations in the video tomorrow to fill a bug report, just to prevent :P Apr 28 22:30:02 so it supports USB OTG, but how do I see stuff Apr 28 22:30:22 Any idea why I cannot install e2fsprogs Apr 28 22:30:34 trying to boot from flash? Apr 28 22:30:41 the Xephyr error I get is "Xephyr cannot open host display. Is DISPLAY set?" Apr 28 22:30:42 * GeneralAntilles attempts to channel Davide's error message. Apr 28 22:30:46 Davide, no. Apr 28 22:30:54 Davide, what's the problem? ;) Apr 28 22:31:55 heh well I get Package e2fsprogs is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source However the following packages replace it: libuuidl Apr 28 22:32:05 E: Package e2fsprogs has no installation candidate Apr 28 22:32:53 I've made sure repository.maemo.org is enabled Apr 28 22:33:07 and ran apt-get update Apr 28 22:33:42 it's a fresh install on the tablet too.. Maybe I shouldn't have restored my settings? Apr 28 22:33:43 idk Apr 28 22:34:08 It's in Extras-devel. Apr 28 22:34:09 ~extras Apr 28 22:34:10 extras is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Apr 28 22:34:39 hello all, I follow this instructions but when I execute sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0beta.sh u torkiano -F Apr 28 22:34:47 E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture. Apr 28 22:34:48 i'll try ty Apr 28 22:34:51 ?? Apr 28 22:36:54 GeneralAntilles I just reflashed my drive, and I had Easy debian installed previously on my external card. How do I get rid of that previous easy deb stuff on my external card and gain that space back? Apr 28 22:37:18 Do I have to format? Apr 28 22:37:32 that would probably be the easiest way Apr 28 22:37:46 :( Apr 28 22:37:47 ok Apr 28 22:38:03 hmm? is there a reason you want to avoid that? Apr 28 22:38:11 you can just manually delete it Apr 28 22:38:22 got lots of stuff on it I'll have to back it up to my desktop I guess Apr 28 22:38:26 no biggie Apr 28 22:38:33 had hoped there was an easier way :) Apr 28 22:39:21 johnx if I install easy debian again... and select that card again... will it re-use or write over that previous easy deb instalation? or create a new instance of it? Apr 28 22:40:29 thank you GeneralAntilles it was in Extras Devel! it works! Apr 28 22:41:06 I don't know Apr 28 22:41:19 sorry, I don't use easy debian Apr 28 22:41:47 GeneralAntilles, 24hours connected to my router :O (idling, but still!) Apr 28 22:42:28 lcuk, you bought a freaking router finally? Apr 28 22:42:37 yeah Apr 28 22:42:40 lol Apr 28 22:42:49 You should get about 3-4 days idle on WiFi Apr 28 22:43:06 needs must, was getting packet loss with adhoc and more than a couple of devices Apr 28 22:43:55 You get something you can put Tomato on? Apr 28 22:44:14 woo Apr 28 22:44:18 Can we promote e2fsprogs yet? Apr 28 22:45:01 heh gan, no i didnt like setting this one up - i still have an odd connection path Apr 28 22:45:03 tshih, a router? ;-) Apr 28 22:46:04 lcuk: you must do a wiki on how you do adhoc - I wanted to link to my laptop when I was out Apr 28 22:46:22 needs a section on doing it under Ubuntu9.04 too Apr 28 22:46:54 and, I also read that tethering Nit to laptop was more power-efficient if you used bluetooth Apr 28 22:47:17 ah johnx check it out... when I attach the tablet through usb to my desktop.. a file shows up debian-final.img.ext2 in my removable card. I'm just gonna delete that I guess that should work no? Apr 28 22:47:29 yeah Apr 28 22:47:31 johnx and it's 1.2gb Apr 28 22:47:34 lbt, depends on how much data is transfered Apr 28 22:47:36 so that's the image Apr 28 22:47:39 :) Apr 28 22:47:44 yeah, I would say so Apr 28 22:47:48 and adhoc was as easy as infrastructure Apr 28 22:48:28 oh- maybe it was the ubuntu making it hard... I had no internet at the time Apr 28 22:48:55 no thats how i used it Apr 28 22:49:07 it didnt matter Apr 28 22:49:14 * GeneralAntilles is undergoing withdrawal from his music library. Apr 28 22:49:24 when i took multidevices out they always just found each other and i could ssh between em Apr 28 22:50:22 so when is the next tablet coming out?! :D !! who's getting a Pandora? Apr 28 22:50:36 Just installed SDK but the simulator's not doing much apart from the desktop (no options, etc do anything), could someone look at this? http://pastebin.com/me93ff45 Apr 28 22:50:49 meh - I've upped to 9.04 on the laptop so I'll try it again sometime Apr 28 22:52:59 should bootmenu allow different kernels for different menu items? Apr 28 22:53:12 luke-jr_, nope. it doesn't work like that Apr 28 22:53:21 :< Apr 28 22:53:28 would it be simple to hack in? Apr 28 22:53:31 but if you patch it we'd love to hear about it Apr 28 22:53:34 if I make a kexec-capable kernel the default Apr 28 22:53:43 yeah, it shouldn't be too hard Apr 28 22:53:52 people haven't had all that much luck with kexec IIRC though Apr 28 22:53:57 damn it Apr 28 22:54:00 I guess that brings me to the real question: Apr 28 22:54:07 is the N810 usable w/ a custom kernel? Apr 28 22:54:21 cannot umount /media/mmc2: Device or resource busy Apr 28 22:54:29 idk why it's busy.. Apr 28 22:54:30 luke-jr_, largely, as long as you're not tied to Nokia's closed source stuff and you don't care about sound Apr 28 22:54:32 Davide: fuser -k /media/mmc2 ;) Apr 28 22:54:40 johnx: sound is buggy? Apr 28 22:54:47 sound is not there Apr 28 22:54:55 wtf? -.- Apr 28 22:55:29 johnx: and the entire reason I'm enquiring about another kernel is because cx one doesn't really work with Mer bootmenu + Gentoo Apr 28 22:55:41 luke-jr_ still busy Apr 28 22:55:54 Davide: too slow; try faster Apr 28 22:56:09 luke-jr_, it works with bootmenu + debian | mer | ubuntu so I think the problem is gentoo Apr 28 22:56:10 ? Apr 28 22:56:26 Davide, my bet is metalayercrawler Apr 28 22:56:41 johnx: old-bootmenu worked ;) Apr 28 22:56:58 luke-jr_, and the new one works for us, so again, I think the problem is in gentoo Apr 28 22:57:15 johnx: could be, diablo-sources seems to be missing code to use the modules Apr 28 22:57:55 hmm? Apr 28 22:58:01 :( Apr 28 22:58:09 johnx: http://pastebin.com/m56ce4a5b Apr 28 22:58:48 luke-jr_, look at our packages. ;) Apr 28 22:59:42 johnx: they're binaries, what about them? -.- Apr 28 23:00:38 uhm, we have source packages too Apr 28 23:01:12 seriously, it's working on mer, it is possible to make it work in gentoo. we're not holding back anything Apr 28 23:02:17 johnx, don't lie. Apr 28 23:03:17 GeneralAntilles, well, we're not holding anything back, except from people who work on other distros :D Apr 28 23:03:26 ^obviously kidding^ Apr 28 23:03:28 'later Apr 28 23:03:51 johnx: I'm not good at hunting for things I don't know what I need Apr 28 23:04:06 the undefined symbols mentioned trying to load it are unknown to Google Apr 28 23:05:30 luke-jr_, I don't have time right now. why not just unpack a recent mer image and look at our init.d scripts? Apr 28 23:06:58 I fail to see what init.d scripts have to do with missing kernel symbols O.o Apr 28 23:07:54 heh stupid virtual memory was enabled Apr 28 23:08:09 I guess that was part of the settings I restored :( Apr 28 23:12:49 Warning: no primary partition is marked bootable (active) This does not matter for LILO, but the DOS MBR will not boot this disk. Do you want to write this to disk? [ynq] Apr 28 23:13:03 Doesnt say anything about this in the guide is this fine? just hit "y"? Apr 28 23:15:19 dantonic: DOS doesn't run on Nseries anyway Apr 28 23:15:31 DOSBox Apr 28 23:15:35 idk what that means... I just hit Y Apr 28 23:15:59 well I know what dos is but I dont know what it's asking me for exactly Apr 28 23:16:01 GeneralAntilles: somehow I don't think that's relevant to his problem? Apr 28 23:16:11 dantonic: it's saying DOS won't like your partition table Apr 28 23:16:20 dantonic: which doesn't matter since you don't run DOS on it Apr 28 23:16:35 so "y" was the correct answer? Apr 28 23:16:38 sure Apr 28 23:16:49 wooohhoooooo! Apr 28 23:16:55 :) Apr 28 23:20:27 hey guys Apr 28 23:20:40 anyone wanting to fix Google Maps for our favorite maemo-mapper app? Apr 28 23:27:35 luke-jr_: these symbols are from umac.ko Apr 28 23:27:59 luke-jr_: are you trying to use binary wlan driver with the new kernels? Apr 28 23:32:30 luke-jr_: don't know if you are interested, but there is fully open source driver in development: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/stlc45xx/ Apr 28 23:45:15 darn Apr 28 23:45:21 Something went wrong it didn't work Apr 28 23:45:22 :( Apr 28 23:45:35 couldn't have been that easy! Apr 28 23:47:49 one question, is the n810 a arm6 device? Apr 28 23:48:34 torkiano: it's armv6 device Apr 28 23:48:49 ssvb, great Apr 28 23:49:08 seems that fremantle support our hardware :) Apr 28 23:49:21 torkiano: ? Apr 28 23:50:08 there is a toolchain for arm6 Apr 28 23:50:17 in fremantle beta Apr 28 23:53:02 Yeah, not quite. Apr 28 23:53:29 except it's different CPU Apr 28 23:53:39 same arch, but it won't run anyway Apr 28 23:54:24 torkiano, most of the N8x0 stuff isn't supported in the Fremantle kernel. Apr 28 23:54:57 kernels can be replaced - question is, if apps will work Apr 28 23:55:01 ops :( Apr 28 23:55:19 well, we have mer anyway :) Apr 28 23:56:00 Practically speaking, Mer is going to bring most of the relevant user-facing stuff to OMAP2. Apr 28 23:56:20 I have this error when installing new sdd: /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/invoke-rc.d: line 1: /sbin/runlevel: No such file or directory Apr 28 23:56:46 anyone more? Apr 29 00:02:39 ok re flashing! Apr 29 00:53:06 will Mer have gnome desktop someday? (optional?) Apr 29 00:53:13 I want deblet : Apr 29 00:53:14 :< Apr 29 01:00:13 gn Apr 29 01:38:56 ssvb: no, Diablo kernel Apr 29 01:39:09 ssvb: the new driver doesn't work with Diablo kernel :/ Apr 29 01:48:03 Hello all. Relative newcomer to maemo wonders why the maemo-extras repository lacks a Release.gpg? It's causing my tablet's apt-get to freak out every time I go to fetch a package from said, and by extension making me nervous. :) Apr 29 01:48:58 nokia does that on purpose for ... some reason? I think to emphasize that packages come from 3rd parties and shouldn't be taken as 100% trusted. Apr 29 01:49:28 That's rather unfortunate... surely they could flag that in some way that didn't leave my tablet vulnerable to MITM? :) Apr 29 01:49:46 um Apr 29 01:49:52 you'd rather MATE? Apr 29 01:49:57 (Man At The End) Apr 29 01:50:02 Yes, much. Apr 29 01:50:08 why? Apr 29 01:50:19 timeless_mbp, well the current situation leaves you vulnerable to both ... Apr 29 01:50:33 true Apr 29 01:50:50 so... there's a study somewhere Apr 29 01:50:59 which talks about safety helmets Apr 29 01:51:10 I mean, everybody seems to think it's a great idea (Fedora switched to it after being compromised quite thouroughly; Debian does it...) and I enjoy having my machines check that they "probably" got the right packages. Apr 29 01:51:16 timeless_mbp, and how they save lives when worn on bikes and motorcycles? Apr 29 01:51:26 and it basically says that there was a time before them when people were somewhat cautious because they understood that there were risks Apr 29 01:51:48 and then with their advent, people became in certain areas more reckless and relied on them Apr 29 01:51:51 ... OK, so patch apt and dpkg to spit out SHA1 sums of the packages it's installing and I'll gladly do the compare by hand. =P Apr 29 01:51:57 timeless_mbp, wasn't there a similar study done by car companies when they were trying to avoid having to install seatbelts? Apr 29 01:52:00 the result is that helmets protect you against certain mild things Apr 29 01:52:18 but instead what you get are much more serious injuries Apr 29 01:52:28 * timeless_mbp shrugs Apr 29 01:52:33 I... don't see the comparison, frankly. Apr 29 01:52:55 johnx: wrt cars, i think we'd all be better if your car wasn't capable of going 50mph :) Apr 29 01:52:58 for me it works as a nice checksum on an unreliable connection Apr 29 01:53:04 There's that too. Apr 29 01:53:08 kermit :) Apr 29 01:53:30 * timeless_mbp shrugs Apr 29 01:53:44 i don't really care Apr 29 01:53:49 Again, patches to make apt use kermit welcome, but the GPG machinery exists and is used on Nokia's real repos as it stands. Apr 29 01:54:12 i think extras is technically more owned by the community Apr 29 01:54:17 johnx, ABS. ;) Apr 29 01:54:25 which means in theory you could try to convince X-Fade directly Apr 29 01:54:32 GeneralAntilles, it's nice in dangerous conditions, I won't lie. Apr 29 01:54:37 ... with slightly less snark, what's the right thing to do here? Should I file a RFE on maemo.org? Apr 29 01:54:50 nwf: i'd hope you'd find there already is one Apr 29 01:54:59 Nokia still holds the keys to r.m.o Apr 29 01:55:11 A few quick googles before I came to the channel didn't turn anything up, but I could have missed it. Apr 29 01:55:13 GeneralAntilles: surely someone could create an additional key Apr 29 01:55:25 nwf: well, it'd be in bugs.maemo.org either way Apr 29 01:55:31 so search first, and file if you can't find it Apr 29 01:55:32 The metaphorical ones, not the literal ones. Apr 29 01:56:18 nwf: btw arguing from a debian perspective is stupid Apr 29 01:56:28 debian actually *compromised* a significant portion of the world Apr 29 01:57:06 and i think you'll find that fedora had to revoke their keys because of the compromise Apr 29 01:57:18 which means that anyone w/ a system that has the old keys, and bad update info Apr 29 01:57:46 could be theoretically attacked by someone w/ the compromised keys if that victim doesn't manage to get the information about the revocation Apr 29 01:57:51 Erm, the Debian SSL fiasco remains a separate issue. Apr 29 01:58:12 signing doesn't protect against compromise Apr 29 01:58:16 Yes, there are all kinds of PKI issues remaining. However, not signing the repository doesn't seem like a great solution. Apr 29 01:58:17 and in fact auto signing makes things worse Apr 29 01:58:39 because then you end up w/ hundreds of binaries which you think are ok, but which could be in fact not ok Apr 29 01:58:46 I understand that signed packages won't protect me from compromise. it does, however, do a pretty good job of checking that I'm actually talking to the right server. Apr 29 01:58:56 https. Apr 29 01:59:12 and don't break the https CA rules Apr 29 01:59:18 With cert checking, sure. Does r.m.o serve on https? Can I get apt to check this? Apr 29 01:59:48 sadly it doesn't, that seems like a reasonable bug to file Apr 29 01:59:50 (I don't really care about the mechanism; if https works and you don't mind holding my hand to get it deployed on my tablet, I'd be happy to use it instead.) Apr 29 02:00:03 i might file that bug, but it's 5am Apr 29 02:00:15 and i need to baby sit an upgrade and maybe pretend to sleep Apr 29 02:00:19 The advantage of Release.gpg over HTTPS is that it's less work for the r.m.o server to do the Release.gpg signing. Apr 29 02:00:29 well Apr 29 02:00:36 r.m.o isn't one server Apr 29 02:00:43 Fair, but the point remains. Apr 29 02:00:45 nokia pays for akamai Apr 29 02:00:48 or something like it Apr 29 02:00:58 and whichever one it is can be paid to get crypto right Apr 29 02:01:02 Ah, if you're using akamai, SSL is somewhat hairy, AFAIK. Apr 29 02:01:13 i don't remember if it's still akamai Apr 29 02:01:30 Since TLS SNI nor HTTP/1.1 Upgrade: STARTTLS haven't yet been widely deployed. Apr 29 02:02:22 yeah, it's akamai Apr 29 02:04:32 Maybe if we switch over to carrier pigeons signed with lineart drawings by X-Fade. Apr 29 02:06:02 timeless_mbp, what perspective can you compare it to, except for other people who run repositories? Apr 29 02:07:00 actually, a big nokia modem pool and kermit would be awesome :) Apr 29 02:07:02 drug dealers? :) Apr 29 02:07:14 you go to china and ask for a drug Apr 29 02:07:30 you don't even bother asking for the name brand, generic will be fine Apr 29 02:07:44 you're shocked when it kills your pet goldfish Apr 29 02:08:09 after all, you went to a drug dealer Apr 29 02:08:15 isn't that what a pharmacist is? Apr 29 02:08:49 ah, but was the drug dealer licensed? well no, you say, but that shouldn't matter, after all he knew how to count pills Apr 29 02:09:01 I think I lost the analogy Apr 29 02:09:53 you don't just put a stamp of approval on a product and say "oh look" Apr 29 02:10:12 in order for a stamp to mean something, the whole process needs to be watched Apr 29 02:10:30 ... would an argument for consistency do anything for you? Either sign maemo-extras or don't sign any of the repos at all. You seem to be arguing for the latter position, AFAICT? Apr 29 02:10:42 nope Apr 29 02:11:02 i'm arguing that nokia is making a certain claim about the signed repository Apr 29 02:11:29 The Extras QA is not yet so rigorous that we could ensure that packages in it are safe. Apr 29 02:11:30 They are making a claim that the repository was in a given configuration at a given time; that's all the Release.gpg file says. Apr 29 02:11:45 that isn't what it says to users Apr 29 02:11:53 and what it says to users is what matters Apr 29 02:11:55 The point of signing the repositories isn't to ensure that packages are safe -- you need TAL or PCC or some other research project to materialize first to make that claim. Apr 29 02:12:15 explaining that to users is impossible Apr 29 02:12:25 What it says to users is that the package manager doesn't pop up the "these are not Nokia" dialog; you can surely ensure the same experience without compromising the fundamentals. Apr 29 02:12:26 "here, trust me, i'm giving you something which isn't tampered" Apr 29 02:12:35 "oh, so it's safe, because i trust you" Apr 29 02:12:36 timeless_mbp, explaining it to users who already know how to use apt-get from the command line? Apr 29 02:12:44 "and if it isn't, then it's your fault, you signed for it" Apr 29 02:12:48 this never even shows in h-a-m Apr 29 02:13:00 johnx: actually, it does, kinda Apr 29 02:13:05 nwf: I believe that pop-up implies signed pkgs ARE guaranteed in some way Apr 29 02:13:13 timeless_mbp, but there's no reason it *has* to Apr 29 02:13:25 it's just arbitrary that unsigned packages trigger that Apr 29 02:13:41 luke-jr_: That's a bug, not a feature, but OK, keep the pop-up for r.m.o's hypothetical newly signed status, I don't care. Apr 29 02:14:01 we can't change the existing devices Apr 29 02:14:05 or their behaviors Apr 29 02:14:09 or the users who learned them Apr 29 02:14:14 Anyway, it's probably a topic worth discussion on the lists. Apr 29 02:14:17 (in case someone actually read those dialogs) Apr 29 02:14:22 ... I am not suggesting to change the device, the hardware, the behavior, or the users. Apr 29 02:14:34 I am 100% OK if the user experience is not at all altered by signing r.m.o. Apr 29 02:14:38 timeless_mbp, heh. which doesn't matter cause there aren't any SSUs coming down the pike to change the behavior :) Apr 29 02:15:03 johnx: well, signing diablo-extras would change behaviors Apr 29 02:15:05 johnx, well, we might end up pushing some. Apr 29 02:15:16 and i can't speak for maemo.org Apr 29 02:15:19 i'm not council Apr 29 02:17:15 Anyway, thanks for the discussion... I've filed bug 4415; if it's WONTFIXed, so be it. :) Apr 29 02:17:33 On that note, I hope we get a Nokian to at least run next election. Apr 29 02:17:34 nwf, if it's WONTFIXed, check out mer. we sign our repos :) Apr 29 02:17:46 GeneralAntilles: hah Apr 29 02:17:49 Will mer run on my N810? Apr 29 02:17:52 yes Apr 29 02:17:55 yup Apr 29 02:17:55 * nwf knows nothing about it Apr 29 02:18:03 and you're probably better served by doing so Apr 29 02:18:08 I just had to reflash my N810 so I'm starting over... should I do so with mer? Apr 29 02:18:11 * timeless_mbp should reflash at least one n800 w/ it Apr 29 02:18:23 basically, we're taking the open source parts of maemo and basing it on ubuntu (a very thin install of ubuntu) Apr 29 02:18:34 nwf: i would Apr 29 02:18:34 nwf, if you have a spare sd card, I'd recommend testing on that Apr 29 02:18:59 some things aren't quite there yet, but bugs (or patches!) are welcome Apr 29 02:19:08 "some things" ? :) Apr 29 02:19:14 sound Apr 29 02:19:20 _That's_ a bummer. Apr 29 02:19:20 it's *almost* there Apr 29 02:19:39 power saving could be improved, but that will always be the case on any operating system :) Apr 29 02:19:40 Since I use my N810 as an overglorified media player for roughly half of its uptime. ;) Apr 29 02:19:53 so, dual boot from sd card if you want to give it a try Apr 29 02:20:15 sound should be there in the next couple weeks (if I stop chatting and help the people doing all the work O_o;) Apr 29 02:20:49 nwf: if you're big on this stuff, jump fully and help get sound working sooner :) Apr 29 02:21:09 timeless_mbp, did I also show you my bugzilla mockup? Apr 29 02:21:10 but yeah, if you're afraid, start w/ an sd card Apr 29 02:21:15 nope Apr 29 02:21:24 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/bugzilla-newstyle-test.jpg Apr 29 02:21:31 I'm not sure about the sidebar. Apr 29 02:21:40 I think it's mostly a bad idea. Apr 29 02:21:52 hold on Apr 29 02:23:07 see url Apr 29 02:23:33 also, is bugzilla dev or community? :) Apr 29 02:23:38 mxr is clearly dev Apr 29 02:23:44 hey timeless, long time no see. ;) Apr 29 02:23:47 Dev Apr 29 02:23:50 hey Apr 29 02:23:56 * jX salutes the General Apr 29 02:23:57 ask these guys about NAT :) Apr 29 02:24:01 I am :) Apr 29 02:24:04 that's why I'm here :D Apr 29 02:26:15 Ok, so, what timeless is suggesting I annoy you all with is this. Let's say I have a phone which I can connect to by N810 via bluetooth and surf the interwebs. Now let us say I have a laptop with wifi (or other wifi enabled device). Through what hoops do I need to jump to use the 810 as a bridge to the webotrons? Apr 29 02:26:37 adhoc might work Apr 29 02:26:45 how much control of the phone's networking stack do you have? Apr 29 02:26:55 little? Apr 29 02:27:01 I mena, the 810 conencts fine, perfectly Apr 29 02:27:16 it's an AT&T 3g phone that the n810 can surf effortlessly Apr 29 02:27:28 NAT on the N810 might work, but I would buy a $10 bt adapter for the notebook Apr 29 02:27:29 Jaffa, ahaha, that's what you meant. Apr 29 02:27:33 * GeneralAntilles is really addled today. Apr 29 02:28:03 johnx: yeah, the thing here is I have 3g and my friend doesn't, so he wants to be able to connect to my 810's wifi and use my 3g with his 2g iphone while we're on teh road Apr 29 02:28:27 the iphone can't tether via bluetooth Apr 29 02:28:30 it's crippled. Apr 29 02:28:44 well, first go out and compile a kernel with all the NAT modules Apr 29 02:28:48 so we're thinking, his iphone can connect to my 810's wifi, then through that to the phone Apr 29 02:29:01 thought I might have seen some recently Apr 29 02:29:12 hrm Apr 29 02:29:21 I could dual boot that, that'd be acceptable to me. Apr 29 02:29:22 Not gonna be much better than EDGE Apr 29 02:29:23 you'll have to run NAT on the N810 Apr 29 02:29:28 Since you're bottlenecked to about 50KB/sec Apr 29 02:29:43 I get a littel better than that Apr 29 02:33:05 timeless_mbp, interesting URL, but what do you think of the sidebar? Apr 29 02:33:36 i think you need to consider what happens when there's most stuff there Apr 29 02:33:45 bugzilla supports 3 rows of footer stuff Apr 29 02:34:00 one is for saved searches and can easily have a dozen links Apr 29 02:34:16 if you're an admin, you can have about a dozen links in one of the other rows Apr 29 02:34:22 Yeah, that's what I was worried about Apr 29 02:34:34 Plus the horizontal space usage in buglists, etc. Apr 29 02:34:42 further.... bugzilla uses the right side of the bug for flags and cc lists Apr 29 02:34:58 Making all the web applications match is a pain. Apr 29 02:35:21 ayup Apr 29 02:35:25 gah Apr 29 02:35:34 why is it that my N810 ALWAYS runs out of batteries in 1 day Apr 29 02:35:47 locutus, router than doesn't support PSM? Apr 29 02:35:53 Something running away in the background? Apr 29 02:36:04 nothing running in the background Apr 29 02:36:08 but PSM might be a good one Apr 29 02:36:27 Easy test is to see what sort of battery life you get disconnected. Apr 29 02:36:28 i'll remind myself to put it in offline mode when i put it in the pack Apr 29 02:37:10 I guess I should wait until andre__ upgrades to 3.4 before playing too much with the templates. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 29 02:59:57 2009