**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 02 02:59:57 2009 May 02 03:00:56 :P May 02 03:01:26 hmm May 02 03:01:44 * xnt notices that speeksts is stskeeps spelled backwards May 02 03:01:50 lol May 02 03:02:26 lol May 02 03:02:38 * xnt wonders is stskeeps is awake May 02 03:02:52 * man_in_shack waves May 02 03:02:59 i have an odd issue with chat on maemo May 02 03:03:06 hi May 02 03:03:07 hi May 02 03:03:31 ~seen stskeeps May 02 03:03:34 stskeeps is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 42 messages. Is idling for 4h 57m 34s, last said: 'luke-jr_: no, stskeeps or sts'. May 02 03:03:43 i can send people messages and they get them fine, but when they respond it goes to a different resource (when another client is logged in) May 02 03:03:44 hehe May 02 03:03:49 lol May 02 03:03:58 mis: ? May 02 03:04:02 i dont get it May 02 03:04:25 you don't get me? May 02 03:04:35 XD May 02 03:05:13 no I just wonder why it would do that May 02 03:05:23 yeah May 02 03:05:37 it's consistent though. keeps coming up on my desktop May 02 03:08:29 wtf? May 02 03:08:43 tnx = xnt spelled backwards? May 02 03:08:53 what? May 02 03:09:36 tnx = xnt spelled backwards May 02 03:09:48 yeah, thats my nick May 02 03:10:17 mibbit is evil May 02 03:10:20 * speeksts watches May 02 03:10:30 * xnt hate mibbit May 02 03:10:33 * hates May 02 03:12:13 HI! May 02 03:12:50 * xnt notices that kcahs_ni_nam is man in shack spelled backwards? imposters? May 02 03:13:09 * kcahs_ni_nam pokes man_in_shack May 02 03:13:58 * xnt is sick of these imposters May 02 03:14:17 * tnx shoves xnt May 02 03:14:38 * kcahs_ni_nam laughs May 02 03:14:45 * xnt kicks tnx in the stomach as he falls May 02 03:15:35 * tnx recovers and then stabs xnt May 02 03:15:44 * kcahs_ni_nam joins in May 02 03:16:16 * b-man joins i May 02 03:16:18 n May 02 03:16:55 * xnt dies then comes back from the dead as a zombie vampire May 02 03:17:32 * kcahs_ni_nam stabs tnx May 02 03:17:50 lol May 02 03:18:03 * tnx shoots kcahs_ni_nam before he dies May 02 03:18:12 rofl May 02 03:18:27 * kcahs_ni_nam turns into a zombe May 02 03:18:47 *zombie May 02 03:19:07 * speeksts cuts xnt's head off May 02 03:19:30 lolololololololololol May 02 03:19:34 lol May 02 03:19:38 * xnt walks up to speeksts and chokes him to death May 02 03:20:13 ~nuke everyone May 02 03:20:14 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at everyone ... B☢☢M! May 02 03:20:33 WTF? *dies again* May 02 03:20:45 haha May 02 03:20:47 ~nuke tnx May 02 03:20:48 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at tnx ... B☢☢M! May 02 03:21:11 ~nuke mibbit May 02 03:21:12 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at mibbit ... B☢☢M! May 02 03:21:20 ~nuke infobot May 02 03:21:21 omg XD May 02 03:21:22 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at infobot ... B☢☢M! May 02 03:21:26 :P May 02 03:21:33 ~nuke himself May 02 03:21:34 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at himself ... B☢☢M! May 02 03:21:43 lol May 02 03:21:49 XD May 02 03:22:13 ~burn himself May 02 03:22:14 * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze May 02 03:22:30 ~burn stevebalmer May 02 03:22:31 * infobot pours gasoline all over stevebalmer, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze May 02 03:22:53 ~blow up microsoft May 02 03:22:55 * infobot blows up microsoft May 02 03:23:03 :) May 02 03:23:29 * xnt randomly wants to kill des^ May 02 03:23:36 ~kill des^ May 02 03:23:38 * infobot shoots a ionized fluxquark gun at des^ May 02 03:23:41 :P May 02 03:23:43 lol May 02 03:23:45 randomness May 02 03:24:01 ~kill everyone May 02 03:24:02 * infobot shoots a hyper-charged electron gun at everyone May 02 03:24:14 XD May 02 03:24:26 ~attack tnx May 02 03:24:27 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing tnx May 02 03:24:40 ~attack xnt May 02 03:24:41 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing xnt May 02 03:24:45 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh May 02 03:24:52 xD May 02 03:26:05 ~sell xnt on ebay May 02 03:26:06 * infobot sells xnt on ebay to a passing bunch of Ishmaelites May 02 03:26:12 Hey I have a question, I have cloned to my SD card, but failed to create a swap partition. I made a linux partition 1gb for the os, and 1 fat partition 1gb for storage. I now want to split that fat partition into a swap and a storage partition. May 02 03:26:19 ~hump May 02 03:26:20 If I want to compile module-init-tools staticly I have to run configure withe --enable-static? May 02 03:26:20 * infobot humps the channel May 02 03:26:25 how would I do that using sfdisk and without hurtin my boot partition? May 02 03:26:57 Davide: usb or on device May 02 03:27:00 Davide, cfdisk may be a better tool for you May 02 03:27:04 on device May 02 03:27:07 oh May 02 03:27:09 fun times May 02 03:27:18 ~sell man_in_shack on craigslist May 02 03:27:19 * infobot sells man_in_shack on craigslist to a passing bunch of Ishmaelites May 02 03:27:20 how do I get cfdisk? just apt-get install cfdisk? May 02 03:27:32 lol XD May 02 03:27:33 what repository is it in? May 02 03:27:52 Davide: well I don't know try it May 02 03:28:15 ~attack Davide out of randomness May 02 03:28:16 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing Davide out of randomness May 02 03:28:22 lol May 02 03:28:24 lol May 02 03:28:27 lol May 02 03:28:40 ~attack brian May 02 03:28:41 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing brian May 02 03:28:47 hey another question I am new to linux... but once I create a swap partition it will be recognized automatically as the swap? May 02 03:28:51 :O May 02 03:28:54 the OS will use it? May 02 03:28:59 Davide: yeah May 02 03:29:04 ok May 02 03:29:08 as far a i remember May 02 03:29:11 *as May 02 03:29:28 * b-man runs from infobot May 02 03:29:40 ~burn channel May 02 03:29:41 * infobot pours gasoline all over channel, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze May 02 03:29:47 ~burn the channel May 02 03:29:48 * infobot pours gasoline all over the channel, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze May 02 03:30:08 * b-man jumps ship May 02 03:30:09 * xnt gets on a helicopter May 02 03:30:27 * xnt sends robotic sharks after b-man May 02 03:30:31 xnt couldn't find package cfdisk May 02 03:30:32 Davide: the best way for you is to create a image of an swap-partition May 02 03:30:47 radic__ how would I do that? May 02 03:30:48 * b-man jumps into a jet May 02 03:31:18 * xnt sends the hawx squadron from hawx the game after bman May 02 03:31:51 can I ruin the current boot partition on the SD?? May 02 03:31:57 brb May 02 03:31:58 I want to avoid that May 02 03:32:31 I was trying to use sfdisk to do this but got stumped because I don't quite understand how fdisk works... May 02 03:32:44 my current FAT partition is mmcblk0p1, and my linux boot partition is mmcblk0p2. When I run fdisk, it will ask me in sequence to assign sectors to the partitions. this means I will have to re-assigne the linus partition? and then assign swap in the 3rd position mmcblk0p3?? May 02 03:34:08 and what kind of file system is swap? is it ext2 like the linux partition? May 02 03:34:12 dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs=SIZE count=1 May 02 03:34:22 mkswap swap.img May 02 03:34:28 swapon swap.img May 02 03:34:30 Davide, it's swap May 02 03:35:01 radic__ could you explain what those commands do because I don't want to risk killing my boot partition... May 02 03:35:06 Davide: replace SIZE of the wanted size in bytes of your swap... May 02 03:35:40 ok but where will it take the space from on the card? May 02 03:35:51 it's not gonna ruin the OS partition like that? May 02 03:35:56 Davide: withe dd you write zeros from /dev/zero to swap.img, bs limits the size of swap.img May 02 03:36:25 withe mkswap you create the swap"filesystem" in swap.img May 02 03:36:46 and with swapon you "mount" the swap May 02 03:37:56 that's my preffered way to get a swap partition if I need more space oder If I fergot to create it May 02 03:38:01 radic__ what do you mean "you write zeros from /dev/zero to swap.img"? and I understand limiting the size, but where will it take the space from on the card? how do I know it won't partition from the wrong spot? May 02 03:38:31 right now there is the fat partition mmcblk0p1 from sector 1-30000 May 02 03:38:50 and the linux 83 partition mmcblk0p2 from 30001-end of the card May 02 03:39:27 Davide: /exec -o df -hTa | grep swap.img May 02 03:39:41 hmm May 02 03:39:58 what will that do? May 02 03:40:47 withe df you see the used space of the mounted filesystem, but it wasn't for you May 02 03:40:59 I fergot to remove your nick... May 02 03:41:48 oh ok I'll ignore that then :) May 02 03:42:00 let me explain what I was trying to do. May 02 03:42:12 cat: /proc/swap: No such file or directory May 02 03:42:23 Filename Type Size Used Priority May 02 03:42:23 /home/radic/test.img file 492 0 -1 May 02 03:42:48 it's a 512000 byte swap-file May 02 03:43:28 radic__ with sfdisk if I just run it on the whole card it will ask partition by partition to declare the sector size... if I go through them again that will ruin my OS partition correct? May 02 03:43:44 so I was trying sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -N1 which only edits the first partition May 02 03:44:10 and I was gonna make that idk 1,15000 to be storage for example May 02 03:44:32 then with sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -N3 that edits the 3rd partition I was gonna declare that as 15001,30000 to be swap May 02 03:45:27 I'm following the "Partition" page from the wiki on maemo.org for the fat partition it says to format with the command mkdosfs /dev/mmcblk0p1 May 02 03:45:44 and for the linux partition it says to format with mke2fs /dev/mmcblk0p2 May 02 03:45:47 create a swap-file instand of a partition May 02 03:46:04 so for swap I would just format with mkswap /dev/mmcblk0p3 May 02 03:46:04 ? May 02 03:46:16 oh the image file? is that better? May 02 03:46:30 what's the difference? May 02 03:47:03 Davide: the the compete /dev/mmcblk0p3 is a swap-partition and all data are going to lose May 02 03:47:40 radic__ well as long as I'm taking from the Fat partition sectors I dont care because that partition is empty May 02 03:48:01 so but if I use dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs=512000 count=1 May 02 03:48:11 then it will just create a swap image file that is 512MB in size? May 02 03:48:25 512kb May 02 03:48:33 or kb yes :P May 02 03:48:36 lol May 02 03:48:50 512*1024*1024 May 02 03:49:06 512*1024^2 May 02 03:49:08 ;) May 02 03:49:44 but help me with the exact command how do I specifically tell it to use that card? instead of /dev/zero I use /dev/mmcblk0 ? May 02 03:50:01 or /dev/mmcblk0p1 more specifically? May 02 03:50:20 if= is the sourece May 02 03:50:25 of= the target May 02 03:50:47 and you fill the swap.img withe zeros May 02 03:50:49 so the source would be that correct /dev/mmcblk0p1 which is my current FAT partition May 02 03:50:52 ? May 02 03:52:09 if you use if=/dev/hda you fill the of= withe the data of hda May 02 03:52:35 withe dd you can create a exact image of a partition or a disk May 02 03:53:01 * xnt is back May 02 03:53:10 * xnt reads the irc log May 02 03:54:26 logs are fun May 02 03:54:54 yup May 02 03:55:39 radic__ and this won't erase any data right? May 02 03:55:46 it will just create a file May 02 03:55:47 ? May 02 03:57:13 yes May 02 03:57:13 Davide: and btw just be careful with the dd commands you get on the forums you could just write zeros to your hdd/sd, but radic__'s command is correct May 02 03:58:11 xnt I'm trying to understand exactly what I'm doing sorry guys if I"m thick, just new to this. So with this command dd if=/dev/mmcblk0p1 of swap.img bs 512000 count=1 May 02 03:58:26 I will create an image swap file on my current FAT partition which is mmcblk0p1 May 02 03:58:27 xnt: on a mounted partition too? May 02 03:58:29 is that correct? May 02 03:58:56 of=swap.img* May 02 03:59:42 Davide: it will work, but why you will write the first 512000 bytes of /dev/mmcblk0p1 to your swap.img May 02 04:00:05 fill the file withe zeros May 02 04:00:46 so that will automatically fill the file with zeros? May 02 04:01:26 oh if I write dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs 512000 count=1 May 02 04:01:32 that will fill the file with zeros? May 02 04:02:03 but how will it know to create this from the mmcblk0p1 partition? May 02 04:02:39 I must be misunderstanding :( May 02 04:03:30 I give up... May 02 04:04:18 radic__ I'm sorry but I'm new and it is unclear, knowing what I told you about the name of my partition and that's where I want to create teh swap... can you write the exact command I would personally need to enter for it to do this? May 02 04:04:31 I apologize May 02 04:04:45 play a littele bit withe dd but DO NOT use any device for of= May 02 04:06:06 :( May 02 04:06:09 needs someone the module-init-tools-3.8? May 02 04:06:16 thanks anyway May 02 04:13:07 when I enter "dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs=512000 count=1" it says dd: can't ope '/dev/ZERO': No such file or directory May 02 04:13:19 can't open* May 02 04:14:44 ? May 02 04:16:35 radic__ I'm sorry I'm totally clueless, I know it seems trivial to you but it's unclear to me still what I'm supposed to enter. I have no experience at all with these commands, and I don't understand what context they have to be used in. May 02 04:24:05 xnt how would the swap file be created in that storage partition with that command? May 02 04:25:00 hay, panguinbait! May 02 04:25:10 hey b-man May 02 04:26:08 what's up? May 02 04:26:22 hey pb hi! May 02 04:26:29 lol May 02 04:26:36 causing trouble :) May 02 04:26:45 :) May 02 04:27:21 penguinbait: I remember when I fell asleep while installing kde on my n810, and waking up to the startup sound :P May 02 04:28:10 am I the only one who keeps going to internettablettalk.com and hitting refresh? May 02 04:28:21 nice: xnt May 02 04:28:32 was it worth the wait? May 02 04:28:39 pb: yeah May 02 04:28:42 loved it May 02 04:28:48 Davide, did you type zero in lower or upper case? May 02 04:28:59 I want to see kde4 but it would be too slow :( May 02 04:29:05 I can't wait for the faster processer and hopefull more memory May 02 04:29:10 :) May 02 04:29:25 * b-man is working on an update to the original Android port btw :) May 02 04:29:31 itt works fine here in ny May 02 04:29:43 tank-man not sure I went back to the other boot partition and am fiddling with sfdisk... the case matters? should it be lowercase or uppercase? May 02 04:29:44 goodmoning May 02 04:29:54 yes case matters May 02 04:30:02 vandenoever: its 12:30:AM here May 02 04:30:06 is there a virtualbox image for starting maemo development? (i'm on a 64 bit machine) May 02 04:30:09 oh neverminf May 02 04:30:10 most likely it should be lowercase May 02 04:30:24 it's 11:58pm here May 02 04:30:35 tank-man can you help me understand what /dev/zero is? that is what causes zeros to be written to the swap.img file? May 02 04:30:38 Davide: linux is case sensitive May 02 04:30:48 xnt: hooray for worldwide projects, i hope your next morning may be good May 02 04:30:48 12:30am here May 02 04:30:52 ok May 02 04:30:55 /dev/zero is a file with zeros in it May 02 04:30:59 vandenoever, http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ May 02 04:31:02 b-man where the hell are u May 02 04:31:04 I see May 02 04:31:08 chicago May 02 04:31:12 he in chicago May 02 04:31:14 im in ny May 02 04:31:23 pb where are you? May 02 04:31:33 oh nvm bmans in ohio May 02 04:31:34 I am in michigan, and its 12:30 May 02 04:31:35 tank-man so when I type that line dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs 512000 count=1 how will the system know where to create the swap.img file? May 02 04:31:47 no May 02 04:31:47 penguinbait: i'm in Bowling Green Ohio May 02 04:31:50 itsnot 11:59 in Chicago May 02 04:31:51 :P May 02 04:31:56 or ohio May 02 04:31:58 * b-man 's clock is off May 02 04:32:05 ohio May 02 04:32:07 30 minutes May 02 04:32:14 GeneralAntilles: thanks, i'll try it on my virtualbox May 02 04:32:21 yeah XP May 02 04:32:22 * xnt has internet time :) May 02 04:32:26 where in OH May 02 04:32:33 Davide, maybe it might make it in the current directory May 02 04:32:40 I am near Flint, MI May 02 04:32:46 Bowling Green - south of Toledo May 02 04:32:50 im in New City May 02 04:32:56 not too far May 02 04:33:25 * b-man use to live in Dermingham michigan May 02 04:33:38 tank-man so I would have to go into the SD card's other partition space first? otherwise it will create it on my os partition? May 02 04:33:39 * xnt went to washinton once May 02 04:33:44 I cant wait to get back to cedar point this summer, I took my kids for the first time laast year, my youngest is finally 4 foot tall :) May 02 04:33:45 i was born in michigan ;) May 02 04:34:11 where abouts May 02 04:34:12 pb: how old are your kids im 14 May 02 04:34:19 Davide, you can modify that command to specify where you want swap.img to be created May 02 04:34:19 b-man is 16 May 02 04:34:27 tank-man how? May 02 04:34:33 My kids are 10 11 14 16 May 02 04:34:40 nice May 02 04:34:42 penguinbait: royalaok May 02 04:34:56 busy penguin May 02 04:34:59 awsome :) May 02 04:35:02 dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/swap.img bs 512000 count=1 May 02 04:35:03 lol May 02 04:35:20 oh May 02 04:35:20 , not for the last 10 years, I finally figured out what caused that May 02 04:35:27 tank-man :) ok thanks! May 02 04:35:33 what does the count=1 stand for? May 02 04:35:37 just curious May 02 04:36:05 Davide, the man page for dd will tell you more. you can look at the man page with the command "man dd" May 02 04:36:16 the number of times it will read/write the 512000 May 02 04:36:16 * xnt imagines itt school, with stskeeps, pb, johnx as the teachers :P May 02 04:36:24 ok May 02 04:36:26 mer class May 02 04:36:27 penguinbait: how is it up there, i herd you guys got some sever weather last week May 02 04:36:28 kde class May 02 04:36:42 , just lots of water May 02 04:36:46 b-man: it rained all day today May 02 04:36:55 same here May 02 04:37:14 lake in the back and side yard, I have a pump running for the last three days May 02 04:37:21 it was 86 F a fuew days ago here xD May 02 04:37:34 yeah it was sooo hot here May 02 04:37:51 We needed the water though, the lake levels have been dripping for the last 8-10 years May 02 04:37:53 only the library have ac;s May 02 04:37:57 dropping May 02 04:37:59 hehe May 02 04:38:02 F Farehnheit! May 02 04:38:04 lol May 02 04:38:07 yes May 02 04:40:21 penguinbait: what do you have planned for this summer btw? - i'm possibly going to see the last shuttle launch May 02 04:41:19 C is for Celcius, that's good enough for me! May 02 04:41:20 hehe, I usually spend a few weeks camping, but all I have planned this summer, is a Grateful Dead Concert on July 4th :) May 02 04:41:53 ok guys im going to sleep, my parents will probably pull the plug on my comp if they wake up, ( im running updates on my cloud) May 02 04:42:21 penguinbait: awsome :) May 02 04:42:35 see ya tomorrow xnt :) May 02 04:42:41 bye May 02 04:42:45 sayanora May 02 04:42:50 so who are the ungrateful dead? May 02 04:43:21 I followed the dead for a few years in the 1990's until Jerry died in 95 May 02 04:43:31 lol May 02 04:43:49 then I got a job and quit sucking down all the nitros May 02 04:43:55 wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa May 02 04:44:25 lolololololololololol May 02 04:45:41 My oldest daughter was riding my shoulders at the last dead concert with Jerry Garcia, shes was <1 May 02 04:47:24 * b-man is trying to re-design the original android port btw :) May 02 04:48:02 i'm adding components from NITdroid May 02 04:48:20 is there anything special bout the scratchbox packages from scratchbox.org or will the ones from $distro do? May 02 04:49:59 pb: was that back in 93? May 02 04:50:21 I honestly never looked at android from the first time I helped out., my website got 2800 hits last month on /android.img.bz2 May 02 04:50:41 is that even usable anymore? May 02 04:50:50 yes :) May 02 04:50:56 oh ") May 02 04:51:00 oh :) May 02 04:51:08 radic__, tank-man COOL it worked, if I want to eliminate or change the swap at anytime do I simply delete that file and run the commands again? May 02 04:51:08 heh May 02 04:51:53 pb: arn't you running that site from a cable modem? May 02 04:52:29 that was actually from tablethacker.com, I pay 90$ a year for hosting May 02 04:52:48 penguinbait.com, os my cable modem May 02 04:52:56 s/os/is May 02 04:53:01 oh May 02 04:54:07 yeah it looks like it got 2152 hits from penguinbait.com also May 02 04:54:15 logs.penguinbait.com May 02 04:54:58 Davide: yes May 02 04:54:59 webalizer graphs are the only current graphs May 02 04:54:59 * b-man wished there was a bootmenu that was compatible with NITDROID May 02 04:55:09 Davide, before deleting you should stop using the swap May 02 04:55:46 , I honestly have resigned myself to no real updated until I get new hardware May 02 04:55:59 tank-man: you think he dosn't do swapoff before deleting? May 02 04:58:36 tank-man, radic__, I didn't know of the existence of swapoff, but thanks. I actually accidentally created a 512kb swap like an dummy LOL and I just deleted it without doing swapoff. THen I just created a new swap file with the same name and 512MB size. and turned it back on etc... seems to work fine. Could I have caused some deeper issues with that? May 02 05:00:11 Davide: you did swapoff before making the 512 MB swap file May 02 05:00:13 so you're ok May 02 05:00:25 I didn't do swapoff at all luke-jr_ May 02 05:00:28 :( May 02 05:00:56 No, Davide, any problems caused by that would go away on a reboot. IT is possible your running system could bug out, but again 1 reboot should fix any possibility of that May 02 05:00:57 Davide: then you couldn't have make a new partition May 02 05:01:16 or are we talking files? May 02 05:01:23 files May 02 05:01:24 in which case, the 512 KB file still exists until you swapoff May 02 05:01:35 even if you removed its filename May 02 05:02:04 Davide: filenames are not files ;) May 02 05:02:07 files are refcounted May 02 05:02:13 they only get deleted when nothing is using them May 02 05:02:33 you can have more than one filename point to the same file, for instance May 02 05:02:50 echo test > a ; ln a b ; echo hi >> b; cat a May 02 05:02:52 ☺ May 02 05:03:05 I see when I delete the file from file manager I am deleting that name but the system is still looking at those allocated bytes? May 02 05:03:36 Davide: the file still exists May 02 05:04:13 if I remove in the /etc/fstab the noexec option for /dev/mmcb1k0p1 then I can execute files on it? May 02 05:04:27 radic__: depends on filesystem May 02 05:04:49 luke-jr_: vfat May 02 05:04:53 so each time I reboot the swap file gets disabled? May 02 05:05:00 it's disabled looks like May 02 05:05:08 radic__: vfat doesn't have an execute bit, so you might need more options to auto-enable it May 02 05:05:09 No radic, I do not think that will make any difference May 02 05:05:10 the internal card is withe ext2 formated May 02 05:05:42 Davide: btw, you never want to put swap internal May 02 05:05:52 Davide: and avoid swap external too May 02 05:05:52 you can create a file on vfat and format it as ext and mount it and then execute files from it May 02 05:06:04 penguinbait: there is some mount option to make them all +x May 02 05:06:05 luke-jr_ on the external card? oh that's what I had done May 02 05:06:16 Davide: swap is bad for flash May 02 05:06:26 luke, never seen that?? May 02 05:06:29 luke-jr_ so where would you create the swap file? May 02 05:06:36 not on vfat May 02 05:06:55 so create a swap partition penguinbait? May 02 05:06:59 , I guess I never tried to fix it, just worked around it? May 02 05:07:44 so it's better to create a swap partition than a file in vfat? May 02 05:07:45 Davide: vfat SD May 02 05:07:53 Davide: but like I said, avoid swap if you can May 02 05:07:55 David, sorry what are you trying to do? May 02 05:08:16 what do you mean avoid swap if you can? May 02 05:08:19 penguinbait: radic__: fmask=0666 I think May 02 05:08:33 Yuo want a swap partition May 02 05:08:34 penguinbait: swap will ruin the SD card faster than normal use May 02 05:08:38 my original question was the fact that I have cloned to the internal sd card and created a 1gb approximately of vfat on the first part of the partition and the rest to the OS May 02 05:08:39 or swap file May 02 05:08:47 BS May 02 05:08:47 swap file on vfat will ruin it slower than swap partition May 02 05:08:51 and I was wanting to create a swap in that VFAT May 02 05:08:54 or part of that VFAT May 02 05:09:13 OR at least in my three years of doing this I have never ruined an SD/MMC/ card May 02 05:09:17 I followed the wiki guide on maemo.org May 02 05:09:25 so now I have 2 partitions May 02 05:09:40 mmcblk0p1 0,30000,6 May 02 05:09:49 and mmcblk0p2 30001,, May 02 05:09:52 penguinbait: great, how often do you use swap? May 02 05:09:59 luke not really, actually there is an extra memory buffor when it runs on vfat, but either way, you just need swap May 02 05:09:59 the first is VFAT the second is 83 May 02 05:10:17 penguinbait: vfat does some wear levelling May 02 05:10:30 so how can I split that vfat partition in half and have half be swap and half be storage? May 02 05:10:31 Always May 02 05:10:36 on my tablet May 02 05:10:45 penguinbait: also, flash cards are optimized/designed for vfat May 02 05:10:54 as soon as its enabled it starts using it, at the first website May 02 05:10:57 Davide: tbh, I'd use a file May 02 05:11:10 Davide, you don't need more than 128MB of swap. May 02 05:11:20 you *can't use* more than 128 MB of swap ;p May 02 05:11:24 type free in xterm and you will see it used May 02 05:11:31 luke-jr_, that's clearly not true. May 02 05:11:32 why not? can you elaborate? May 02 05:11:50 GeneralAntilles: from experience, I've seen 128 MB swap the limit before watchdog resets from swappiness May 02 05:11:51 If you do not have swap enabledyou can hang and crash more often May 02 05:12:14 maybe the high performance SD patch helps a bit, not sure May 02 05:12:19 so virtual memory would be more than enough? May 02 05:12:21 I have seen as high as 256mb swap before death May 02 05:12:30 yes David May 02 05:12:36 penguinbait: hmm, maybe not actively swapping then? May 02 05:13:00 1.5x RAM is a good guideline for swap on most things, but our flash is slow enough that 1:1 is recommended. May 02 05:13:01 fire up KDE, and tell me if your activly swaping? May 02 05:13:05 I mean if using more swap like 512 that would not mean that you could run for example more applications at once? May 02 05:13:06 my N810 is building Python right now May 02 05:13:16 penguinbait: IIRC, no May 02 05:13:25 :) May 02 05:13:28 well, Python compile + KDE would active-swap, no dobut May 02 05:13:31 but just KDE doesn't May 02 05:13:55 Davide: it's not practical to use that much May 02 05:13:58 fire up konquorer May 02 05:14:05 penguinbait: Konqueror is preloaded ;) May 02 05:14:07 and kmail May 02 05:14:13 kmail will do it May 02 05:14:15 :/ May 02 05:14:17 and konsole May 02 05:14:29 I wish I could replace plasma May 02 05:14:29 and maemomapper May 02 05:14:38 I don't think Maemo Mapper is ported May 02 05:14:39 luke-jr_ but are there physical limitations that cause instability or something like that? or do you just mean that I won't likely use more than that much memory? May 02 05:14:53 penguinbait: Maemo Mapper forces swapping even with Maemo May 02 05:14:59 by itself May 02 05:15:06 Davide: swapping is slow May 02 05:15:22 Davide: before you hit 512 MB swap use, the system will get so slow the CPU assumes it crashed May 02 05:15:23 all maemo apps are available under my kde May 02 05:15:27 and the watchdog will reboot it May 02 05:15:38 penguinbait: I don't even have GTK+ installed ;) May 02 05:16:00 luke-jr_ I see I guess I just don't know how swapping works... I don't understand what the system does exactly when it swaps May 02 05:16:14 Davide: it copies something in memory to the swap file/partition May 02 05:16:20 Davide, it uses mass storage devices as RAM, basically. May 02 05:16:22 then when it needs that memory again, it reads it back May 02 05:16:46 and the reason it would become so slow like you say arises from what? May 02 05:16:52 David, it take memory and puts it on disk, to make room for more important insctructions May 02 05:16:53 yes, SD read/write is slow May 02 05:17:00 very slow compared to real RAM May 02 05:17:38 so for 512 MB swap, you'd need to basically read and write a full 128 MB four times per cycle May 02 05:17:44 not exactly, but summarizing May 02 05:17:57 yes luke-jr, but it has been my experience with some type of swap, systems will crash more often May 02 05:18:07 oops May 02 05:18:13 without May 02 05:18:21 penguinbait: that's when you run out ;) May 02 05:18:24 oh so the size of the swap determines how much data has to be written each cycle? May 02 05:18:32 Davide: no, the amount of swap you use May 02 05:18:40 and unused swap is usually just a waste May 02 05:18:48 penguinbait, it's a fine line to walk between OOM killings and watchdog killings. May 02 05:19:24 without swap, you could run out and die just by going to http://internettablettalk.com May 02 05:19:33 at least for a few more days May 02 05:19:42 Maybe on the crappy old theme, but it's much lighter now. May 02 05:19:52 GA, have you had any card failures? May 02 05:19:58 No May 02 05:20:08 so I would not be able to run Maemo-mapper, canola, xchat, Openoffice 2.4, pidgin, and browse the internet all at the same time :D May 02 05:20:14 * luke-jr_ wonders how/if one would notice a failure May 02 05:20:25 Davide: you might be able to if you patch Maemo up ;) May 02 05:20:32 eg, have it send SIGSTOP to background programs May 02 05:20:38 luke-jr_, same way you notice a drive failure. May 02 05:20:39 I can honestly say I bet I have read/written more data to their SD cards than most people, with never one failure May 02 05:20:42 Suddenly it stops working. May 02 05:20:48 * b-man starts to compile a decompiler on his tablet May 02 05:21:02 penguinbait: SD card brand matters, also May 02 05:21:12 I am all ingston May 02 05:21:14 higher quality SD cards might do better wear levelling than others May 02 05:21:17 I am all Kingston May 02 05:21:22 mine are all lowest bidder ;) May 02 05:21:30 oh and one San Disk May 02 05:21:31 b-man: ARM decompiler? May 02 05:21:44 luke-jr_ I see, there would be no benefit to having a 512MB swap file May 02 05:21:45 No, higher-quality cards have more durable NAND. May 02 05:21:55 I have Lexas and A-data May 02 05:22:08 luke-jr: kinda May 02 05:22:12 Lexar* May 02 05:22:20 b-man: link? :D May 02 05:22:21 you get what you pay form there is a reason they come with a lifetime warranty :) May 02 05:22:45 luke-jr: i'm building it right now XD May 02 05:22:48 david, 256 is plenty May 02 05:22:59 penguinbait: I wish "lifetime" was defined as the owner's life ;) May 02 05:23:08 b-man: it has no website? May 02 05:23:29 http://boomerang.sourceforge.net/download.php May 02 05:23:42 * luke-jr_ ponders whether he is better off decompiling gpsdriver or just analyzing the protocol May 02 05:23:51 lol May 02 05:23:53 luke-jr_, sure, you can have that if you want to pay $500 for an 8GH SD card. May 02 05:24:06 s/GH/GB/ May 02 05:24:07 GeneralAntilles meant: luke-jr_, sure, you can have that if you want to pay $500 for an 8GB SD card. May 02 05:24:45 has anyone in here had failures, and if so what brand? May 02 05:25:02 I suspect a forum thread would be better suited to that question May 02 05:25:04 or a poll May 02 05:25:33 I have started enough polls lately May 02 05:25:36 I've only had miniSD cards for 3 months, so I can't comment :p May 02 05:25:58 chirp chirp May 02 05:26:31 GA, any failures? May 02 05:26:34 http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/14/266 <-- most of what I know May 02 05:27:03 based on reverse engineering of flash usb sticks May 02 05:27:28 Even during the infamous data corruption bug, the hardware always remained reusable May 02 05:27:42 at least mine did May 02 05:28:05 remember that bugger May 02 05:28:12 how can I copy / without fallowing any links and exclude other partitions? May 02 05:28:42 that had me as fired up as these latest turn of events May 02 05:29:31 radic__: mkdir /tmp/rootfs; mount -o bind / /tmp/rootfs; rsync -a /tmp/rootfs/ /target/ May 02 05:30:12 might want to use something other than /tmp/rootfs so you don't accidentally delete rootfs ;) May 02 05:31:08 luke-jr_: and from /target/ I can create a jffs2 image and flashe it as rootfs image? May 02 05:31:37 radic__: uhh, not 100% sure on that one May 02 05:42:12 hmm, my new kernel isn't booting May 02 05:42:42 is there a way to show the bootmessages instand of the default startup-screen? May 02 05:55:19 i'm trying out fremantle and get only a black xephyr screen after running af-sb-init.sh start May 02 05:55:37 also errors about dbus not working May 02 06:02:00 x86 or arm target? May 02 06:02:13 did you set the DISPLAY variable ? May 02 06:05:46 keesj: arm and yes May 02 06:06:16 that is, i'm running in scratchbox on x64 May 02 06:07:51 I haven't tried the arm one , i know the x86 work on x64 May 02 06:08:25 (I don't know if it works on the arm target) May 02 06:11:25 keesj: this might be a problem: (Connection ":1.53" is not allowed to own the service "org.x.config.display3" due to security policies in the configuration file) May 02 06:12:46 you use -ac right? May 02 06:13:11 -ac ? May 02 06:13:22 ah, yes May 02 06:13:25 in xephyr May 02 06:15:03 any idea where i can find something like that http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6154/55528692.png but in french version May 02 06:17:31 vandenoever: I give up :p May 02 06:17:37 * Stskeeps yawns May 02 06:17:43 You won't May 02 06:18:18 These words appear to be attribute names. They will be the same in either English or French version. May 02 06:18:56 but i need to translate for understanf good what is what May 02 06:19:01 lol May 02 06:23:17 keesj: i'm looking at security setting now ... May 02 06:23:57 good morning qwerty12 May 02 06:24:17 hi radic__ May 02 06:25:02 qwerty12: is there a way to show the bootmessages instand of the default boot-screen? May 02 06:25:26 http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Boot_messages May 02 06:25:39 infobot: boot-messages is http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Boot_messages May 02 06:25:39 okay, qwerty12 May 02 06:26:45 thx May 02 06:26:52 boot-messages May 02 06:27:04 hmm May 02 06:27:20 how can I see any kind of help of the infobot? May 02 06:47:28 qwerty12: where can I get fanoush's initfs? May 02 06:48:07 http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs May 02 06:48:27 But if Mer ever tickles your fancy, get Stskeeps' one May 02 06:57:11 qwerty12: URL? May 02 06:57:33 I can't remember it May 02 06:59:38 it's available as part of the mer bootmenu installer May 02 06:59:40 Stskeeps: you are awake? May 02 07:02:54 anyone see the kickstand info on the N86? looks like a harbinger of tablets to come :) May 02 07:03:20 Looks worse than the 770 stand May 02 07:03:57 yes, but now we know what kind of thing the "kickstand open" flag will be used for May 02 07:04:11 Ah May 02 07:07:14 johnx: IMO, the kickstand is mostly useless May 02 07:07:23 eh. May 02 07:07:26 kickstand is wonderful. May 02 07:07:30 not practical to type with it May 02 07:07:40 you're doing it wrong May 02 07:07:41 it just slides backward May 02 07:08:13 it's not for when you're typing... May 02 07:08:24 ^ May 02 07:08:38 when it's sitting there just looking pretty? :p May 02 07:09:42 reading web pages, listening to music, reading a book, watching a movie, just setting it on your desk and letting it check mail May 02 07:10:16 maybe I was just too spoiled by the Zaurus May 02 07:10:49 Yes, I can see how the kickstand would hurt someone dearly May 02 07:11:32 The kickstand is possibly the greatest thing ever invented May 02 07:11:51 Indeed, I can't imagine using mplayer w/out it May 02 07:12:10 luke-jr_, problem with the zaurus is when you tap on the screen the screen folds back. problem with the kickstand is that typing pushes the whole thing back May 02 07:12:17 no single solution... May 02 07:12:26 johnx, sure there is, rubber! May 02 07:12:46 johnx: add a stop-lock point to the screen May 02 07:12:48 why is the kernel not booting whene it's configured withe "make n800_defconfig"? May 02 07:13:08 nokia_2420_defconfig May 02 07:13:19 johnx: actually, I take that back, in practice my Zaurus seems to slide too :/ May 02 07:13:25 why nokia_2420 and not n800? May 02 07:13:32 so I guess the usability difference was just on the go typing May 02 07:13:35 Because it works? :) May 02 07:13:53 qwerty12: what's the differences? May 02 07:14:04 Dunno, do a diff yourself and find out. May 02 07:15:42 I can't wait for 2.6.30 :p May 02 07:15:55 it has support for the wifi mainlined May 02 07:17:05 p54spi driver May 02 07:19:23 Someone want to explain to the idea why there are 3 different names for what is apparently 2 drivers? May 02 07:19:42 s/idea/idiot May 02 07:19:49 GAN800: ? May 02 07:20:13 if you mean wifi, 3 different codebases May 02 07:20:37 cx.. used blobs May 02 07:20:45 stlc was open source, specific to N8x0 May 02 07:21:00 p54spi is a variant of a single prism54 codebase May 02 07:21:28 so the final driver is not tied so much to N8x0 May 02 07:21:39 and is shared by USB and PCI drivers for the same chip May 02 07:49:57 \me wakes up May 02 07:50:16 * lcuk810 wakes up even May 02 07:50:50 hey lcuk810 :) May 02 07:51:02 mornin May 02 07:51:11 huh. guess it is :) May 02 07:51:27 too early May 02 07:52:03 was woke up to the sound of drumsticks on glass table May 02 07:53:26 someone working on a new solo piece? May 02 07:54:51 johnx yeah youngest May 02 07:55:06 thought so :) May 02 07:55:10 but its not new him playng, its just new table May 02 07:55:34 hard to fingertype on 810 May 02 07:55:57 cant wait to get this e.t. finger off May 02 07:57:26 so I still don't know the whole story...you actually broke your finger like that by jabbing it at a touchscreen? May 02 07:57:40 lol May 02 07:58:00 * johnx obviously missed something :) May 02 07:58:09 no i reached up to the handle of a big glass door May 02 07:58:21 it was locked May 02 07:59:10 so i pressed what i thought was a unlock button (like all the other doors were locked but manual May 02 07:59:24 and reached back for the handle May 02 08:07:52 wtf May 02 08:07:59 * johnx shrugs May 02 08:08:23 hello May 02 08:08:24 johnx lol i didnt notice maemo had closed lol May 02 08:08:30 which FS is recommended for immc? May 02 08:08:40 i just carried on typing May 02 08:08:44 ext2/ext3 doesn't matter :P May 02 08:08:45 morning after mayday May 02 08:08:48 i had ext2 May 02 08:08:49 AStorm, depends on what you want to do. May 02 08:09:01 Stskeeps, I'd prefer btrfs w/ compression, but unfortunately it's not available May 02 08:09:13 and I'd need later kernel for it May 02 08:09:20 sharing with windows/camera -> vfat. using with linux -> ext2/3 May 02 08:09:33 johnx, immc. a chip May 02 08:09:39 sts would u paste the bits fom #liqbase where i finished my storylol May 02 08:09:49 that's not meant to be shared excluding hotair desoldering May 02 08:09:51 s/camera// May 02 08:09:51 johnx meant: sharing with windows/ -> vfat. using with linux -> ext2/3 May 02 08:09:59 :) May 02 08:10:02 [09:59] ed outwards automatically May 02 08:10:02 [09:59] sliicing the end of my finger bettween the handle and the central metal pillar May 02 08:10:18 eep May 02 08:10:32 ta May 02 08:10:49 yeah johnx hurt muchly May 02 08:10:55 hmmh, so no better fs more tuned to flash available? May 02 08:10:57 I believe it May 02 08:11:06 (esp. to slow flash like that one) May 02 08:11:17 AStorm, not that's tuned to dealing with flash that has a hardware block device translator on top May 02 08:11:17 lcuk810, they covering your medical expenses? May 02 08:11:25 johnx, yeah, well May 02 08:11:35 lcuk810: ick, good luck with your finger May 02 08:11:35 pity I can't use btrfs in SSD mode May 02 08:11:46 (and compression, which really helps) May 02 08:11:51 you can actually use btrfs on a block device? May 02 08:11:53 maybe once I up the kernel in mer May 02 08:12:00 johnx, uhm... it's a normal filesystem? May 02 08:12:03 yes gen, every single person went above and beyond their jobs to help me as much as possible May 02 08:12:12 ah, didn't know much about it :) May 02 08:12:17 http://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page May 02 08:12:31 heh. light bedtime reading? :) May 02 08:12:35 and there have been changes made since to prevent it in future May 02 08:12:52 hopefully it wasn't too painful May 02 08:12:55 AStorm: now that i'm actually not busy with watching a movie with my gf, DSP protocol in ESD: http://pastebin.com/d36af180d May 02 08:13:02 lcuk810, ah, too bad. May 02 08:13:26 Stskeeps, throw that at pulseaudio devs May 02 08:13:29 k May 02 08:13:34 GeneralAntilles, hoping to recommend your cousin who just happens to be a lawyer? :P May 02 08:13:35 they might be able to implement it in split second May 02 08:13:39 I'm not right now :-( May 02 08:13:50 *nod* May 02 08:13:52 gan, we joke that the speed of corporate change is slow, but in this instance the responce has been tremendous May 02 08:13:53 even the Mer install is more caused by necessity May 02 08:14:04 ah, any specific need? May 02 08:14:26 # May 02 08:14:26 + // Read the junk May 02 08:14:26 # May 02 08:14:26 + dsp_read_junk() May 02 08:14:33 * AStorm loves meaningful comments May 02 08:14:53 what does that function do? May 02 08:15:21 hell if I know May 02 08:15:30 Reads the junk, duh. May 02 08:15:34 I guess that DSP still has some stuff in it, or maybe it's some flag update May 02 08:15:36 or whatever May 02 08:15:49 s/stuff/junk/ May 02 08:15:55 yeah May 02 08:16:05 but it's not self-explanatory May 02 08:16:16 gan, example of above and beyond, the receptionist at the hotel apologised! i think on behalf of the entire country :$ May 02 08:16:18 * Stskeeps tries to locate the dsp protocol stuff May 02 08:18:06 but my hand will get better and i will recver and ill always have a reminder of my first trip to finland :) May 02 08:18:20 heh, bad reminder May 02 08:18:32 Wth? If i set xkbmap layout to "de" ä and ö starts working O_o May 02 08:19:08 * Meiz_n810 worders why they aren't working with fisenoda layout May 02 08:19:10 hehe May 02 08:19:48 astorm i said i would give my right hand to go to nokia, when i said it i didnt think it would be taken literally May 02 08:20:57 lcuk810, that was just a downpayment ... May 02 08:21:05 :o May 02 08:21:14 * lcuk810 cowers May 02 08:21:34 thats scary May 02 08:21:51 yeah, dunno what they've got planned for me. I mean I only have the 3 hands on me and a couple of spares in the closet... May 02 08:22:33 forget thee dpad, that about a nokia 1 handed keyboard lol May 02 08:23:06 johnx: cced my answers to you May 02 08:23:22 gan i still havent charged this 810 up May 02 08:23:26 Stskeeps, thanks. I'll answer those and send them out tomorrow. May 02 08:23:30 *nod* May 02 08:23:38 * johnx can't be trusted to represent *anyone* this late at night :) May 02 08:23:56 'night all May 02 08:24:06 practice for jetlag for copenhagen ;) May 02 08:24:10 gnite johnx May 02 08:24:27 lcuk810, liking the router, then? :P May 02 08:24:49 no it keeps dropping the desktop May 02 08:24:53 oh May 02 08:24:58 that's a neat photo May 02 08:24:59 sec May 02 08:25:04 the adhoc was rocksteady May 02 08:25:10 lcuk810, how far away is it? May 02 08:25:12 johnx: hang on for a sec if you're not gone yet May 02 08:25:22 still here May 02 08:25:34 less than 10foot May 02 08:25:38 lcuk810, isn't the desktop wired anyway? May 02 08:25:52 desktop wired to internet May 02 08:26:01 wifi to internal lan May 02 08:26:34 johnx: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/DSCF0743.JPG (and to the rest of you) May 02 08:27:02 * johnx claps May 02 08:27:04 woo! May 02 08:27:45 on some devices character choice for user name is slightly restricted ... May 02 08:27:47 hehe May 02 08:27:53 lol May 02 08:28:03 so change your name!! May 02 08:28:03 Stskeeps: is it your device? May 02 08:28:07 thux: no, goshawk's May 02 08:28:11 Stylin' vkb. What's that, Chinese? :P May 02 08:28:20 ok May 02 08:28:51 * thux wonders when manufacturers start to send devices to mer devs May 02 08:28:56 i like the left hand butttons May 02 08:28:59 abc May 02 08:29:00 sht May 02 08:29:04 Stskeeps, how's the cellular work? Just drop-in? May 02 08:29:06 shit even May 02 08:29:14 GAN800: probably - we havent' gotten that far in May 02 08:29:24 GAN800, sorry? did you just say you were making a layout that works in portrait mode? :D May 02 08:29:40 johnx, pfff May 02 08:30:09 GAN800, I'll cover you in terms of council duties for a while. :> trust me ... May 02 08:30:29 johnx, ahaha, you have no idea what you're volunteering for there. :P May 02 08:30:49 The vkb programing would probably be more fun these days. May 02 08:30:57 Is the Neo stylus driven? May 02 08:31:26 yeah May 02 08:31:26 "covering someone in council duties" sounds more like bukkake May 02 08:31:44 (or touch) May 02 08:31:51 I still think a Grafiti clone would be really awesome for portrait stylus devices. May 02 08:32:06 Morning, all May 02 08:32:19 astorm is working on hwr May 02 08:32:32 * lcuk810 has bits too May 02 08:32:39 Is there a way to set the tablet to use a user account other than "user" by default? May 02 08:32:44 mornin tangarine May 02 08:33:05 not by default, no May 02 08:33:06 Actually, how hard would it be to just drop the numpad and add a line of numbers up top? May 02 08:33:07 scibotic: maemo is surprisingly hardcoded to user May 02 08:33:16 GeneralAntilles: probably not hard, but i'm an idiot at GTK :P May 02 08:34:03 Bugger. Well the internal SDHC card I'm using already has a filesystem setup for a particular user and I'd rather not butcher the permissions. May 02 08:34:15 GeneralAntilles, hmmh? May 02 08:34:52 mornin lbt May 02 08:35:02 as to the graffiti, it's weak May 02 08:35:12 I can do better hwr than that already... May 02 08:35:23 soon, I'll make the first preview release May 02 08:35:28 * lcuk810 scrrolls May 02 08:35:32 (w/o X bindings though) May 02 08:35:40 Grafiti is faster than hwr for smaller screens. May 02 08:36:01 faster? as in, what it is other than hwr? :P May 02 08:36:09 Proper HWR May 02 08:36:11 it's special kind of symbols May 02 08:36:12 Not shorthand May 02 08:36:22 explain difference between hwr and graffiti plz May 02 08:36:25 ah, well May 02 08:36:30 it's *proper* hwr then May 02 08:36:35 :) May 02 08:36:38 lcuk810, no, I'm in technical-laziness at the moment. May 02 08:36:44 the hardest part is UI stuff May 02 08:36:57 there is no good binding, including hildon May 02 08:36:59 was talkin to astorm May 02 08:37:08 I don't really think handwriting on a small screen works very well. May 02 08:37:09 for good stuff, I'd need the position of the textbox May 02 08:37:14 it does. May 02 08:37:34 (assuming the detection quality is good) May 02 08:37:51 Newton is about as small as I'll actively handwrite on. May 02 08:38:01 n810 is larger, heh May 02 08:38:11 Than a Newton? May 02 08:38:19 screen-wise, yes May 02 08:38:22 Erm May 02 08:38:29 How many Newtons have you used, exactly? May 02 08:38:39 exactly one, once, for a short time May 02 08:38:41 :) May 02 08:39:00 and its UI for hwr is excellent May 02 08:39:09 Yeah, um, the WHOLE FREAKING N800 is smaller than the Newton's screen. May 02 08:39:18 yes, but higher res May 02 08:39:23 so you can actually write better May 02 08:39:26 I'm not talking about resolution. May 02 08:39:38 I'm talking about absolute screen dimensions. May 02 08:39:41 hmmh May 02 08:39:53 well, Nokia's fine for handwriting with me May 02 08:39:54 and the N800's screen is too small for me to comfortably handwrite on. May 02 08:40:00 you can easily fit a line of text May 02 08:40:16 (horizontal mode - vertical is... different) May 02 08:41:12 other than that, I could use better hooks in hildon, yes May 02 08:41:16 85" $95 5/!5 &!@ May 02 08:41:34 its not that bad even May 02 08:41:35 not just "show the IM" which returns text May 02 08:43:13 hildon context is a bit poor in info May 02 08:43:42 what do you mean May 02 08:44:27 why would your im care where it is placed as long as its visible May 02 08:44:59 as an input method you should be subserviant May 02 08:45:54 yes May 02 08:46:05 but I'd like to know where to display the input surface May 02 08:46:35 'lo lcuk810 May 02 08:46:47 because another window is inconvenient and resizes windows in matchbox May 02 08:46:48 \o May 02 08:46:56 so, I'd put an overlay May 02 08:47:17 not your prob astorm, job of hildon isnt it May 02 08:47:21 to do that, I need x,y of the textbox May 02 08:47:52 sure it is, it's an input method May 02 08:48:29 that should be feasible tho, dont you get a reference to the current activecontrol May 02 08:49:03 i know im used to having context avail in vb lol May 02 08:49:04 XID of the "textbox window" you say May 02 08:49:25 yeah or gtkbox May 02 08:49:25 yes, I could use low-level X functions to grab that May 02 08:49:47 except I still have to cheat and send events at the box to simulate key input May 02 08:49:53 instead of having proper functions for this May 02 08:50:04 if I want real-time input May 02 08:51:39 mmh an input method shouldnt try to get hands on the app itself rly? it should supply an input stream only May 02 08:52:13 yeah, but not in a way of sending text around May 02 08:52:37 think speech recognition, no ui, just moving cursor and pushing text in May 02 08:52:41 this means it can't do real-time input May 02 08:52:56 yes, but current input is pure block of text May 02 08:53:09 course it can just like a bt keyboard can May 02 08:53:22 thats just another im May 02 08:53:36 nah, it's not May 02 08:53:42 it's actual X keyboard driver May 02 08:53:49 which sends actual X events May 02 08:53:58 yerga, you got an Ars shout-out. May 02 08:54:03 http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/maemo-5-sdk-beta-released-apis-frozen.ars May 02 08:55:12 I'm bitching because I'll have to do the same May 02 08:55:17 that is, simulate a keyboard ;p May 02 08:55:41 lol "input method" May 02 08:56:28 at least I can detect the textbox losing focus May 02 08:56:48 (thanks to the context) May 02 08:58:35 wont it technically lose focus as son as your im is shown May 02 08:58:38 ok, end of moaning, time to install Mer May 02 08:58:43 lol May 02 08:58:56 it will - but that doesn't matter May 02 08:59:12 because it's the context that does hiding and showing May 02 08:59:21 and I can send X events at the correct XID May 02 08:59:39 yeah May 02 09:00:03 alternatively, I can mark the window as non-focus May 02 09:00:11 so hard typin with 1 hnd May 02 09:00:59 with the added "benefit" that matchbox will treat it as an overlay window May 02 09:01:09 but I don't know whether I can force the position of the overlay May 02 09:05:53 Jaffa: ping... bleb.. osc... ? May 02 09:06:10 * lbt hopes you're not in a tent... May 02 09:08:19 bbl May 02 09:12:40 lbt: nope, not yet. wassup? May 02 09:13:04 seems to have been an upgrade so my local osc is broke :( May 02 09:13:06 so I removed it May 02 09:13:17 and found /usr/local/bin/osc is also broke :) May 02 09:13:21 lbt: ah - right May 02 09:13:48 lbt: removed - I switched to the more appropriate repo, so the hack is unnecessary May 02 09:14:23 hopefully merinstaller can install on immc May 02 09:14:33 cool - ta. May 02 09:14:34 I suspect it can, amirite? May 02 09:14:47 does anyone have rights whilst you are out of touch? May 02 09:14:56 just in case something bad happens? May 02 09:15:18 AStorm: correct May 02 09:15:51 lbt: nope. I should only be a few days between getting access to the intarwebz; worst case: do something osc-ey in your home dir May 02 09:15:55 1,1 GB is more than enough, yes? May 02 09:16:33 OK May 02 09:16:57 lbt: or send me a text message (my mobile number is on my finger record, so 'finger andrew' on the box will show it) May 02 09:17:11 OK - I'll make a note May 02 09:24:37 is there anything better than canola for downloading, listening and deleting podcasts? May 02 09:25:07 "Better" is awfully subjective, but GPodder may work. May 02 09:27:14 canola's database is corrupt, it can't pause properly, it takes loads of ram, and doesn't work with some feeds May 02 09:27:32 mavhc, kill it with canola-cleanup then reinstall. May 02 09:27:45 Stskeeps, damn your installer May 02 09:27:59 there's no option to make bootmenu.item and not format the partition May 02 09:28:09 can't it just read /proc? May 02 09:28:26 (yes, I do have ext2 on that) May 02 09:28:55 AStorm: well the bootmenu item is fairly easy to make May 02 09:29:00 why does it need a FAT partition anyway? May 02 09:29:30 to keep Maemo from complaining May 02 09:29:38 ah, that May 02 09:29:47 nah, I can fix the dumb script May 02 09:30:07 just a minor change from -t vfat to -t auto May 02 09:30:11 *nod* May 02 09:30:50 So, is krisse he or she? May 02 09:31:01 he May 02 09:31:04 moo Astorm, btw, found a job? May 02 09:31:08 she May 02 09:31:12 oh May 02 09:31:17 RST38h, you're hiring? :) May 02 09:31:26 * RST38h senses trouble May 02 09:31:29 because, nah, not yet May 02 09:31:45 AStorm: Well, I may have stuff coming May 02 09:31:55 mmhm, would be nice May 02 09:32:00 qwerty12, gotta hate the internet, eh? May 02 09:32:10 AStorm: it is all contract stuff though and it is peculiar May 02 09:32:13 now, 20 minute download May 02 09:32:30 heh, still could be fun if it's white (not gray like I did before) May 02 09:32:31 GAN800: lol, I just thought I saw a post saying krisse was a he but maybe my mind is playing tricks on me... :P May 02 09:32:47 qwery12, qgil say she, so I'm just going with that. May 02 09:33:20 :) May 02 09:33:27 maybe it's a ve May 02 09:33:34 An it May 02 09:34:07 heh, I should get my email up to speed with all the mailing list sorting May 02 09:34:17 afternoon aladds May 02 09:34:23 hi May 02 09:34:28 and hotlisting good threads May 02 09:34:33 saw you released 0.12 :-) May 02 09:34:48 yup May 02 09:34:51 btw, is 0.13 soon to come? May 02 09:35:04 a little over 2 weeks to go May 02 09:35:12 we haven't done much yet, we're moving -everything- to opensuse build service May 02 09:35:17 that's quick May 02 09:35:19 mhm May 02 09:35:19 ah May 02 09:35:54 if I get annoyed enough, you might get a nice DSP driver for pulse from me May 02 09:36:05 (that's assuming I fix the earphones) May 02 09:36:10 * RST38h senses real trouble now after speaking with krisse on and off for 1+ year and all the time assuming krisses was he May 02 09:36:14 AStorm: a2dp might work too, heh May 02 09:36:25 RST38h: welcome to the internet May 02 09:36:26 a2db is junk, too slow May 02 09:36:42 *a2dp May 02 09:36:43 Sts: yep May 02 09:36:44 aladds: take a look at https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=Maemo%3AMer%3ADevel (make a novell account) May 02 09:37:00 too slow = not enough bandwidth for real sound May 02 09:37:44 depends on your definition of real sound May 02 09:37:44 need 10 Mbit May 02 09:37:54 44100 kHz, 16bit, stereo May 02 09:38:02 uncompressed or lossless May 02 09:38:11 64kbd should be enough May 02 09:38:23 1 Mbit. May 02 09:38:24 Stskeeps: looks fun May 02 09:38:28 actually, 1,5 Mbit May 02 09:38:35 Sound compresses REALLY well, so you do not need 1Mbaud May 02 09:38:37 so BT with EDR *might* do it May 02 09:38:42 not that well May 02 09:38:45 64kbaud is enough May 02 09:38:46 Flac has 50% ratio May 02 09:39:05 anything more than this means expensive hardware to decode May 02 09:39:09 aladds: we build simultaneously for debian armel/x86, ubuntu armel/x86, without any scratchbox etc May 02 09:39:16 nice May 02 09:39:28 AStorm: just sending deltas instead of absolute values will compress sound by 50% May 02 09:39:31 or more May 02 09:39:36 no arm hardware involved, too, or arm systems emulated :P May 02 09:39:42 depending on what you are compressing of course May 02 09:39:42 no, that will give you 20-25% May 02 09:39:50 I know, because flac does this too :) May 02 09:39:54 on white noise (44kHz) it will give you 0 May 02 09:39:57 yep May 02 09:40:06 but white noise is nice, because it's uniform May 02 09:40:07 on a guitar quartet it will give you 90% May 02 09:40:11 so in longer term it compresses well May 02 09:40:27 nah, 90% from a real sound is impossible May 02 09:40:34 as in, real-life recording May 02 09:40:35 if you simply delete it and regenerate it on the other end, yes May 02 09:40:46 unless it's lossy May 02 09:40:49 but I guess it won't work well because most noise isn't really white :)) May 02 09:40:59 yep May 02 09:41:20 still, flac can do noise well, has some additional tricks apart from Rice encoding May 02 09:41:45 * RST38h is surprised flac only compresses audio by 50% May 02 09:41:52 but 1,5 Mbit should pass through BT w/ EDR May 02 09:41:53 way to low imho May 02 09:41:53 it's fast May 02 09:41:58 it's average 50% May 02 09:42:00 or so May 02 09:42:01 ah May 02 09:42:04 on fast setting May 02 09:42:16 so it is worse on rock, better on strings... May 02 09:42:18 and it's mostly a static codec May 02 09:42:29 nah, actually, it's not bad on any real input May 02 09:43:08 the main advantage it's that its static and lossless May 02 09:43:12 so needs little CPU power May 02 09:43:25 also, it's open - I wonder why it hasn't been adopted for that BT standard May 02 09:43:38 "static" == "losless"? May 02 09:43:40 there's even an open royalty-free hardware implementation May 02 09:43:42 no May 02 09:43:47 then what? May 02 09:43:56 static means it doesn't use dynamic codebooks and random advanced tricks May 02 09:44:07 (well BT has had limited bandwidth historically so they probably consider flac wasteful) May 02 09:44:09 ah ok May 02 09:44:10 so it's very simple to decode May 02 09:44:19 well, 1,5 Mbit is wasteful May 02 09:44:22 700 kbps is not May 02 09:44:24 :) May 02 09:44:30 so in a sense "static" ~= "stateless" May 02 09:44:34 and with BT+EDR it can be easily done May 02 09:44:42 if it does not construct codebook dynamically May 02 09:44:44 almost, it has some small amount of state, but yes, that's it May 02 09:44:53 it does construct the codebook dynamically May 02 09:44:55 on encoding May 02 09:44:59 ah May 02 09:45:17 the trick is that there's one codebook, and it's not changed every some random amount of time May 02 09:45:28 and many other tricks that advanced lossless encoders use May 02 09:45:46 the lookahead is also limited May 02 09:45:54 so buffering one block is enough May 02 09:46:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC anyway May 02 09:49:02 =) May 02 09:50:29 heh http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=16460 May 02 09:51:12 haha, it's easy to "hypnotize" someone to want what he already wants May 02 09:51:17 ;P May 02 09:51:52 AStorm: FLAC doesn't _guarantee_ a compression ratio (no lossless codec can), which tends to make hardware designers nervous. May 02 09:52:13 * RST38h to his surprise found that the R500 works in sunlight WITHOUT the backlight May 02 09:52:36 derf, nothing guarantees May 02 09:52:43 derf: well that goes without saying May 02 09:52:50 you can't beat the information theory May 02 09:53:10 AStorm: Sure it does. You can guarantee size, if you don't guarantee quality. May 02 09:53:12 only lossy compression guarantees May 02 09:53:14 ylu can however say that you compression algo at worst case scenario results in 1:1 May 02 09:53:19 yes May 02 09:53:20 That's what I just said. May 02 09:53:31 so, you could still use flac May 02 09:53:31 "(no lossless codec can)" May 02 09:53:50 lcuk: Plus one bit. May 02 09:53:54 lcuk: 1:1 + some metadata :) May 02 09:53:59 it *almost always* compresses better than 30% May 02 09:54:04 in mathematical senfse May 02 09:54:06 *sense May 02 09:54:17 "almost" has no meaning in mathematical sense. May 02 09:54:21 it has. May 02 09:54:22 i think we should just outlaw "1" bits May 02 09:54:26 RST38h: Yes it does. May 02 09:54:41 "Almost always" means everywhere except a set of measure zero. May 02 09:54:46 Well you can define it, like they do in approximation algorithms theory May 02 09:55:00 derf: mmm,ok May 02 09:55:01 It is a strict mathematical term. May 02 09:55:23 derf: does it apply to physical entities though? May 02 09:55:34 yes, it means everywhere except if the signal has maximum entropy May 02 09:55:36 If you can put them in a measure space, yes. May 02 09:55:47 And most physical entities map to measure spaces very well. May 02 09:56:00 but you could extend flac to do lossy... like WavPack May 02 09:56:05 still, that's FLAC 2, not FLAC ;P May 02 09:56:54 like MPEG-4 SLS May 02 09:57:29 * RST38h points out that any audio with percussion instruments is pretty high up there in terms of entropy May 02 09:57:51 no, it's not, because that's mostly pink noise May 02 09:57:51 So, good luck compressing that death metal CD =) May 02 09:58:19 check out how well that compresses with FLAC - you'll be suprised May 02 09:58:26 hmmm May 02 09:58:32 note volume changes rarely May 02 09:58:36 it does not compress well with MP3, that is for sure May 02 09:58:39 so Rice coding will drop most bits May 02 09:58:44 That's because MP3 is a transform codec. May 02 09:58:48 yeah, MP3 is sucky on transients May 02 09:58:50 yup May 02 09:59:18 But how would FLAC compress it if it is noise, i.e. consists of random unpredictable sequences of samples? May 02 09:59:28 it's not noise, hehe May 02 09:59:36 It's _shaped_ noise. May 02 09:59:40 yes May 02 09:59:40 You are not supposed to lose any sequences. You can't make a codebook because they are pretty random. May 02 09:59:43 That's what "pink" means. May 02 09:59:50 "pretty" random May 02 09:59:55 like a fractal May 02 10:00:00 see how well fractals compress May 02 10:00:05 Shaped or not shaped, you have got a semirandom input sequence May 02 10:00:13 not *that* random. May 02 10:00:18 Which you are not allowed to lose May 02 10:00:20 it's still predictable May 02 10:00:25 even with a linear predictor May 02 10:00:31 volume changes rarely, for example May 02 10:00:53 * RST38h finds this counterintuitive May 02 10:01:04 compression is not that intuitive, yes May 02 10:01:36 Not *that* weird though, no =) May 02 10:02:09 Or maybe those percussion tracks are not as random as they seem... May 02 10:02:19 Also weird. May 02 10:02:29 yes, they're not random May 02 10:02:55 the most random part is the *timing* of the spike May 02 10:03:18 but that doesn't matter with a linear predictor, which can reproduce transients perfectly, even if they won't compress that well May 02 10:03:34 (the falling part is predictable though) May 02 10:04:27 actually, both are May 02 10:04:50 pity we can't do wavelet compression in any normal amount of CPU time May 02 10:05:12 Wavlets are overrated. May 02 10:05:21 a bit, yes May 02 10:05:33 to compress well with them, a lot of CPU power is needed... May 02 10:07:33 the simplest A2DP could use FLAC with changing bit depth May 02 10:07:54 and/or frequency - if the channel can't sustain the transfer rate May 02 10:08:28 it does that already afaicr May 02 10:10:13 btw, why can't BT+EDR transmit networking faster than those 300 kbps... it should do better! May 02 10:10:29 maybe I have some software misconfiguration? May 02 10:14:13 or you have some other device causing interference May 02 10:14:55 nope May 02 10:15:09 it's still going 300 kbps, even though both devices say they support EDR May 02 10:15:21 heck, why doesn't n810 transfer faster than this May 02 10:15:34 (because it says it supports EDR too) May 02 10:16:43 Stskeeps, make the prompt for root pass show twice May 02 10:17:10 everyone has made that mistake at least once May 02 10:18:06 oh well, the installer crashed in the initfs flashing step May 02 10:18:10 salvageable? May 02 10:19:31 yup, fortunately, I flashed it before that May 02 10:19:39 now, time for bootmenu.init May 02 10:21:07 eh, now I get crashes at wifi connection... have to go offline mode just after boot May 02 10:24:53 ah, that's just my flaky /fs May 02 10:25:22 crashed in initfs flashing step? hmm :P May 02 10:26:04 yup May 02 10:26:19 with a lot of errors about /var/tmp/ whatever May 02 10:26:30 I'll try to boot it anyway May 02 10:26:31 out of space i guess or flaky May 02 10:26:39 out of space is possible May 02 10:26:46 where did it dl the 150 MB file? May 02 10:27:04 to the MMC May 02 10:27:16 out of space in /var/tmp that is May 02 10:27:17 hmm, immc says still 546 MB free May 02 10:27:26 in /fs May 02 10:27:34 it says 15 MB free now... May 02 10:27:57 hmm May 02 10:28:41 no immc in the menu? blah. May 02 10:28:47 I expected everything to be there May 02 10:28:53 whatever May 02 10:28:55 well that's what the refresh_bootmenu.d step is for :) May 02 10:28:58 which crashed May 02 10:29:06 it adds the bootmenu.d item May 02 10:29:23 ok, so I'll have to make it myself - any sample file? May 02 10:29:38 it will be laying in your /etc/bootmenu.d on your rootfs May 02 10:30:06 so just refresh_bootmenu.d to install it - make sure you have space on your / May 02 10:30:06 nopes May 02 10:30:08 hmm May 02 10:30:21 well you have more problems with the installer than usual people :P May 02 10:30:42 as I mentioned, my rootfs might be flaky ;p May 02 10:30:53 hehe May 02 10:30:57 so, I need that sample file to know what to type in May 02 10:31:06 then reflash initfs and see May 02 10:31:19 I suspect that flashing initfs was the last step? May 02 10:31:44 http://pastebin.com/d2200fb6d May 02 10:31:55 yes May 02 10:32:02 it did download, untar and all that jazz? May 02 10:33:12 basically all installer does is partition, format, etc, grab the image file, untar it on the ext3, and setting up root password through chroot and write the bootmenu item and flashing it to the initfs May 02 10:33:27 you can refresh_bootmenu.d (i assume you ran Install bootmenu once) May 02 10:33:40 and it will just update the /etc/bootmenu.d dir on initfs May 02 10:33:43 yeah, it did May 02 10:33:58 refresh_bootmenu.d? is that a script? May 02 10:34:11 yeah May 02 10:34:12 if so, where is it? May 02 10:34:28 /usr/sbin/refresh_bootmenu.d i think May 02 10:38:46 is the "internal mmc" in the N810 an actual memory card or is it ssd? May 02 10:39:12 It's eMMC May 02 10:39:50 is it soldered to the board? i.e can it be upgraded in any way? May 02 10:40:16 yeah, soldered afaik May 02 10:43:58 thank you May 02 10:54:52 to be exact, it's BGA May 02 10:55:10 yes, you can technically replace it with a larger one May 02 10:56:16 Have fun with that. :P May 02 10:57:17 on the other hand, didn't some nokians get higher-gb internal mmc upon n810 release? :P May 02 10:57:50 yes, you can technically replace it with a larger one // I guessed so, but I bet it won't be trivial May 02 10:58:24 yeah, you need proper BGA hotair May 02 10:58:54 and buy a larger capacity Samsung eMMC chip May 02 10:59:08 the latter might be tricky,these are sold per thousand May 02 11:00:46 Stskeeps, 8GB. Apparently there was a power issue, though. May 02 11:01:20 ah May 02 11:01:44 At least that's what Igor hinted at. May 02 11:06:23 <_|Nix|_> WTF?! I stick a GtkTreeView into a HildonPannableArea, and now I can't select any of its items. Weird ... May 02 11:06:42 <_|Nix|_> As soon as I let go, the selection disappears. May 02 11:06:50 probably swallowing some event May 02 11:12:30 anyone here look after maemo wiki things? May 02 11:14:11 Hum? May 02 11:17:33 hehe :) May 02 11:18:19 lbt, well, do you need something? :P May 02 11:18:29 sorry, on mer too May 02 11:18:31 yes May 02 11:18:39 we used to have breadcrumbs May 02 11:18:43 menu May 02 11:18:50 into subpages May 02 11:18:56 so http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/FirstSteps May 02 11:19:03 would have a line at the top May 02 11:19:13 Mer / Documentation / FirstSteps May 02 11:19:24 with Mer and Documentation 'active' links May 02 11:19:30 *very* useful :) May 02 11:19:33 Guess X-Fade killed them accidentally at some point. May 02 11:19:45 OK - bugworthy? May 02 11:19:54 or "yeah we know" May 02 11:19:55 Already on it. May 02 11:19:59 cool May 02 11:20:00 ta May 02 11:20:02 :) May 02 11:21:23 Speaking of the wiki: Is it possible for the discussion link on every wiki page to be coloured in red, like it was with the old theme, if it did not exist? May 02 11:22:07 Probably May 02 11:22:15 Though it might be easier to add a string. May 02 11:22:20 "Edit Discussion" or something May 02 11:22:23 "Start Discussion" May 02 11:22:50 GeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4440 May 02 11:24:02 X-Fade: are you doing the #maemo irc karma calcs? If so I would like to suggest that #mer and #liqbase also count May 02 11:24:49 I'd also like #qwerty'sspamchannel to count so I can get uber amounts of karma May 02 11:24:57 shhhhh on'tday entionmay #iqbaselay eoplepay illway antway otay ogay May 02 11:24:57 erethay May 02 11:25:24 but nice that you include my little chan :$ May 02 11:25:57 lbt, yeah, saw it. X-Fade will have to tweak the feed. May 02 11:26:04 i love the fact #mer is hardcore #maemo May 02 11:26:33 i don't think there's IRC karma though :P May 02 11:26:42 lbt, and #canola, and #carman, and #tangentiallyrelatedchannelx May 02 11:26:46 ~stskeeps++ May 02 11:26:52 ~karme stskeeps May 02 11:26:56 ~karma stskeeps May 02 11:26:57 stskeeps has karma of 3 May 02 11:27:07 ~stskeeps-- May 02 11:27:08 ~stskeeps-- May 02 11:27:08 ~stskeeps-- May 02 11:27:11 ~karma stskeeps May 02 11:27:11 pfft :P May 02 11:27:11 stskeeps has karma of 2 May 02 11:27:14 lame. :P May 02 11:27:54 GeneralAntilles: if mer/liqbase/$channel are worthy of sponsorship to hackfests.... then yes May 02 11:28:17 lbt, #maemo is the only official maemo.org channel. May 02 11:28:39 You can make justifications for adding at least a dozen channels to that karma list. May 02 11:28:47 hmm, Stskeeps - can we merbot mirror all #mer in here? May 02 11:29:04 1 way mind... May 02 11:29:10 But, problem number 1, they're not all logged, or if they are they aren't logged in the same place May 02 11:29:19 and problem 2, it just doesn't work like that. May 02 11:29:24 1 technical easy May 02 11:29:29 2 make it May 02 11:29:36 3 close bug May 02 11:29:51 life is so good on saturdays May 02 11:29:55 #mer, maybe May 02 11:30:13 The ONLY way you could justify #liqbase is by including EVERY other vaguely Maemo-related channel on Freenode, too. May 02 11:32:09 hmm chans for development of 100% maemo apps... heck, they're in the maemo community ;) May 02 11:32:26 #liqbase is not 100% Maemo. May 02 11:32:43 and considering the fact that #maemo is 80% whining and 5% constructive... May 02 11:33:09 anyhow, proposal proposed May 02 11:33:20 back to work May 02 11:33:22 Really, your justification for these channels would extend as far out as #tinymail. May 02 11:33:41 Anything more than #maemo is just never going to end. May 02 11:34:07 #tinymail is quiet May 02 11:42:56 #maemo is a good first step; let's do that and assess if the right people are getting the right scores. May 02 11:43:18 I thought we were already doing #maemo? May 02 11:43:28 "Google and 47 other companies are being sued over use of the "Android" name. Eric Specht of Android Data alleges that Google "stole first and asked questions later."" May 02 11:44:12 Eric Specht unexpectedly struck fortune! Hurrah! May 02 11:44:15 Stskeeps, you lied, I wanted that immc to be the default! May 02 11:44:22 AStorm: hmm? :P May 02 11:44:37 it didn't work. May 02 11:44:38 :) May 02 11:44:47 I mean, it booted flash May 02 11:45:22 did you hold down button when it asked? May 02 11:45:25 GeneralAntilles, why is liqbase not 100% maemo? May 02 11:45:35 also, immc was the Mer installation, right? May 02 11:45:40 I did... yes May 02 11:45:42 its built from the ground up on and for the nokia internet tablets May 02 11:45:45 and I wanted Mer as the default May 02 11:45:54 lcuk, how often do you brag about running it on other platforms, exactly? :P May 02 11:45:55 not "hold menu to boot" alternate May 02 11:46:23 still, it's good, because I messed up partition ID ;P May 02 11:46:36 lcuk, anyway my point is that there are a lot of channels you can justify indexing for karma that way. . . . May 02 11:46:39 so, how do I make it the default? May 02 11:47:02 i have exactly 1 liqbase package and its for maemo, i COULD move away and start whoring myself elsewhere but i dont May 02 11:47:06 lbt, and, no, we don't calculate any IRC karma. May 02 11:47:28 irc karma....ah...yummy! May 02 11:47:29 lcuk, it has nothing to do with liqbase and everything to do with IRC karma. May 02 11:47:32 * AStorm kicks the broken 2.6.21-omap in the nuts May 02 11:47:49 stupid thing got a watchdog reset on boot again May 02 11:47:54 i know that - its just your justification was skewed May 02 11:47:54 (and it was working!) May 02 11:47:55 OMAP has got nuts, on top of all the other weird hardware?!? May 02 11:48:07 no, the kernel has May 02 11:48:13 a lot of nuts working on it May 02 11:48:17 ;) May 02 11:48:34 so, who needs 2.6.21 again? May 02 11:50:22 sorry GeneralAntilles but if you aim to measure discussion aimed at contributing to the maemo community then I think you are wrong. If you aim to measure chat in #maemo then fair enough. May 02 11:51:15 "I can't think of a way to bound the number of channels" is a bad counter argument but a valid problem May 02 11:51:27 lbt, so you want to index #canola, #carman, #tinymail, etc? Hell, I've done a fair bit of community work in my own clan channel #trem-null, so we can index that too. ;) May 02 11:51:50 what is the aim? May 02 11:51:56 measure discussion aimed at contributing to the maemo community ? May 02 11:51:59 so yes May 02 11:52:27 Anyway, whatever, let's start from #maemo and then go from there. May 02 11:52:33 the objective looks like it needs more work to achieve.... that's all May 02 11:53:16 is canola a major application on maemo?... hmm, let me see the download stats.... May 02 11:53:31 and it shows the devs are active and they deserve karma.... May 02 11:53:59 anyhow, as you say, lets take it from #maemo.... but let's not forget the aim is not to measure #maemo May 02 11:54:12 You HAVE to come up with concrete guidelines for what's a justified channel. May 02 11:54:43 'cause if you just go and pick your personal set of favorites. . . . May 02 11:54:56 no, the council has to May 02 11:55:05 based on their reading of community wishes May 02 11:55:10 MY proposal is that it's limited to #maemo. May 02 11:55:11 Stskeeps, so, how do I make that new option the default? May 02 11:55:11 edit bootmenu.conf? May 02 11:55:22 and put what there? May 02 11:55:39 l8r, my build needs me May 02 11:56:44 AStorm: sec, meiz just put up that info :) May 02 11:57:34 AStorm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Bootmenu , second item May 02 11:57:45 tanks ;) May 02 11:58:26 ah neat, I didn't know cal-tool can do that May 02 12:10:09 Ah, playing the victim is so much fun. May 02 12:12:48 Somebody else is just going to have to jump in there. May 02 12:14:07 where? May 02 12:16:08 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=283892#post283892 May 02 12:17:08 lbt: The other counter-argument to anything other than #maemo (or rather against #canola et al) is that the product-based chats get their authors karma for downloads. May 02 12:17:43 The argument for indexing #maemo is, pretty much, IMHO about recognising people who contribute in the *main* Maemo community spaces. May 02 12:17:45 that works for the whole team does it? May 02 12:17:55 lbt: can do - you can have multiple authors against a product May 02 12:17:58 or just the main uploader? May 02 12:18:15 For example, mgedmin and I both get karma for https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/vim/ May 02 12:18:17 lbt, you can add as many authors as you want to the Downloads entry. May 02 12:18:31 People are awfully quick to say how useless they think the wiki is, but I've yet to see them offer to lend a hand improving it. May 02 12:18:36 you can see how #canola would proportianally represent the team though May 02 12:19:05 For that specific example, they're almost all in here anyway. May 02 12:19:29 well, I kinda started it for #mer... and realised it wasn't just us :) May 02 12:19:41 lbt: indeed. I'm willing to accept their may be additional channels to include, but let's start with #maemo (after all, there's /some/ resistance to that) and go from there. May 02 12:19:50 Actually, concrete proposal: #maemo and #mer to start with. May 02 12:20:07 Since #mer is the future for current Maemo-based devices (we all hope ;-)) May 02 12:21:18 * Jaffa notices an odd breadcrumb trail bug on the vim downloads page. May 02 12:21:32 "... > Text Editors > vim > vim" May 02 13:04:11 Stskeeps, well, your initfs is broken May 02 13:04:40 I mean, it doesn't boot mer, because... INT_whatwasit is mmcblk0, as Maemo says... but it doesn't work May 02 13:04:51 any ideas? May 02 13:04:56 I get a watchdog kill May 02 13:05:59 AStorm: INT_CARD vs EXT_CARD is important to remember to have May 02 13:06:09 how does your item look? May 02 13:12:27 ${INT_CARD}p1, which resolves to mmcblk0p1 May 02 13:12:32 yes, I get a watchdog kill May 02 13:12:47 this time it installed ok (I made /var/tmp a ramdisk)... but it doesn't boot still May 02 13:13:11 might be that I didn't load ext3 stuff, funny though May 02 13:13:15 as the fs is ext2 May 02 13:13:29 mbcache jbd ext3? May 02 13:13:34 can i see the whole item? May 02 13:14:16 I removed those May 02 13:14:28 shouldn't be necessary, as the filesystem is ext2 May 02 13:14:37 maybe I have to load that instead? May 02 13:14:42 or is it built-in? May 02 13:15:00 it isn't, so modules should be mbcache ext2 May 02 13:15:10 blah, my fail then May 02 13:15:11 sorry May 02 13:15:20 hint - add real modprobe there May 02 13:15:21 The polls have to end. May 02 13:16:00 AStorm: maemo restriction May 02 13:16:11 hmmh? May 02 13:16:12 GeneralAntilles: how far are you until you go on a violent rampage? :P May 02 13:16:17 ah, oh well May 02 13:16:18 AStorm: they have no Modules.dep for some silly reason. May 02 13:16:22 (we do in Mer.) May 02 13:16:22 political raisins May 02 13:16:29 Stskeeps, I don't have the energy in me for violent rampages. May 02 13:17:19 silly reason being them using busybox May 02 13:17:26 which has no real modprobe May 02 13:17:53 modprobe is there, depmod not May 02 13:17:59 yes May 02 13:18:01 that one May 02 13:19:35 Stskeeps, neat boot logo May 02 13:20:25 I'd add a submarine May 02 13:20:34 (for the devel version) May 02 13:21:09 AStorm: hehe May 02 13:21:55 AStorm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Mer_Wazd_Wallpaper_Nokian_Ship.jpg May 02 13:22:17 hmmh May 02 13:22:23 ;9 May 02 13:22:24 ;) May 02 13:22:33 why did it pop out virtual keyboard while I have my physical open? ;P May 02 13:23:11 because noone wrote the powerlaunch recipe for it yet :P May 02 13:23:15 i don't have a n810, so i can't May 02 13:24:35 also, the virtual keyboard has broken symbol part May 02 13:24:41 yeah, it's the example vkb May 02 13:24:50 hehe May 02 13:24:58 which works surprisingly well :P May 02 13:25:16 also, the UI failed when I pressed and held the arrow key May 02 13:25:25 it acted as if I pressed enter May 02 13:25:36 *nod* May 02 13:25:37 so now I have a nasty username :/ May 02 13:25:45 is it easy to change that? May 02 13:25:59 somewhat. you can rm /etc/default/autologin and first-boot-wizard will run again May 02 13:26:12 mhm, thanks May 02 13:26:17 there's flaws, which i obviously hate :P May 02 13:27:32 nice work though still May 02 13:27:57 add a clock to the desktop :) May 02 13:28:00 hehe May 02 13:28:07 there's large-statusbar-clock to be installed, but yeah May 02 13:28:17 when we start porting all of Maemo extras, it's almost all there May 02 13:28:44 hmmh May 02 13:28:59 it's also missing one major thing - a way to configure keyboard layout May 02 13:29:13 so I end up with default qwerty - need PL qwertz :) May 02 13:29:48 yeah - we need a control panel for it. http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=283637&postcount=51 :) May 02 13:29:52 for most of the initial obvious issues May 02 13:32:43 well, hw keyboard is unrelated to HIM May 02 13:32:52 sortof. gconf has a setting to hide the kbd May 02 13:32:55 the signal is being sent via dbus May 02 13:33:07 no need to twiddle keyboard setting May 02 13:33:31 be aware nothing is like it seems, as nokia do a lot of smoke and mirrors in their setup May 02 13:33:35 that wouldn't work well as it won't hide the vkb when the n810 is opened May 02 13:33:48 yeah yeah May 02 13:34:03 still, you can grab that signal from the kernel if needed May 02 13:34:07 yeah May 02 13:34:40 the proper mod is to change vkb to not show if lid (yes, that) is open, and hide if lid is open May 02 13:34:46 *nod* May 02 13:35:00 then show back when it's closed May 02 13:35:09 might do this or I'll get annoyed to no end ;P May 02 13:35:30 no applet settings? May 02 13:35:36 so I get to live in Helsinki now? May 02 13:35:37 ;p May 02 13:35:40 it's a demo :) May 02 13:35:43 hildon-home-weather May 02 13:35:47 i suspect it's one of the first widgets May 02 13:36:06 funny fact: Panels crash if there's no installed widgets. May 02 13:37:35 you forgot to install osso-xterm l18n May 02 13:37:46 there actually is no l10in for it May 02 13:37:51 l10n May 02 13:37:56 l10n yep May 02 13:38:00 hmmmh May 02 13:38:02 i18n and l10n May 02 13:38:21 both look the same, almost ;) May 02 13:38:49 yeah :P May 02 13:38:54 internationalization and localizatin May 02 13:38:56 +o May 02 13:39:20 ah btw, hildon-home-weather is not in path May 02 13:39:30 so how do I change those Helsinki to something useful? May 02 13:39:40 it's a demo, so it's 34 C in helsinki all day :P May 02 13:39:55 (hint: it rarely gets to be 34 C in helsinki) :P May 02 13:40:25 so just disable it until we get a real weather applet like omweather May 02 13:42:09 aw drat May 02 13:42:19 I hoped it's already more or less usable :-( May 02 13:42:29 Now I get to install something working a bit more May 02 13:42:53 note: it doesn't allow me to sudo -s May 02 13:43:04 sudo su and use your password, it's a ubuntu May 02 13:43:10 sudo -s should work too May 02 13:43:13 hmm May 02 13:43:32 Astorm.... http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/FirstSteps May 02 13:43:42 holding escape key isn't bound to "home" May 02 13:44:46 is it expected that python hildon bindings in extras-devel are broken (for fremnantle) May 02 13:45:12 meh May 02 13:45:21 AStorm: there's a home button isn't there? :P May 02 13:45:21 either sudo is broken, or I mistyped the root pass May 02 13:45:36 the one below menu, yes May 02 13:45:38 use 'su' with the root password you used in installed May 02 13:45:44 ah May 02 13:45:47 just su then May 02 13:46:06 sudo su ought to work though May 02 13:46:10 yep, that works May 02 13:46:15 sudo su doesn't May 02 13:47:30 yes, it isn't in sudoers May 02 13:47:55 maybe add %wheel setting or such May 02 13:48:30 now, I need some good TODO app. May 02 13:48:41 if you know one from ubuntu, it's probably there :p May 02 13:49:31 vkb forgets the "hiding" state May 02 13:49:51 and it's not showable from it, despite leaving a yucky white bar at the bottom May 02 13:50:17 *nod* May 02 13:50:44 there's no battery monitor yet, right? May 02 13:50:54 apt-get install tablet-battery-monitor May 02 13:50:58 thanks May 02 13:51:08 it'll grab hald-addon-bme and such and install advanced power and such May 02 13:52:06 you forgot gpg May 02 13:52:26 *nod* May 02 13:52:27 and now apt-get warns about it :) May 02 13:52:29 or didn't include it May 02 13:53:11 libperl is missing May 02 13:53:22 perl cries about missing object May 02 13:53:29 we took a minbase originally so May 02 13:53:45 oh drat May 02 13:53:48 now stuff broke May 02 13:53:49 Unending insanity. May 02 13:53:50 I mean, apt May 02 13:53:58 error? May 02 13:53:58 it's missing libc May 02 13:54:01 eh. May 02 13:54:13 oh, did you apt-get update first? May 02 13:54:17 libapt-pkg-libc6.9-6.so.4.7 May 02 13:54:19 yes May 02 13:54:32 "don't do that"? May 02 13:54:38 no, you should, hmm May 02 13:54:46 can you get me the error somehow? May 02 13:54:48 * lbt added tablet-battery-monitor to First Steps May 02 13:54:52 Stskeeps, I told you May 02 13:54:56 apt-get is missing that lib May 02 13:55:02 fantastic. May 02 13:55:10 * Stskeeps wonders what the jaunty people broke May 02 13:55:19 enough I think ;P May 02 13:55:33 now, the question is - how do I fix May 02 13:56:03 dpkg -l apt for me May 02 13:56:14 X -version now fails too... May 02 13:56:36 "failed to exec dpkg-query: No such file or directory" May 02 13:56:42 it exploded May 02 13:56:52 that's rather weird May 02 13:57:02 seems like your installation didn't finish that well May 02 13:57:17 I installed again May 02 13:57:25 and it installed correctly that time May 02 13:57:28 hmm May 02 13:57:41 weird, eh? May 02 13:57:47 ok, so steps to get this far, it broke before doing anything, in apt-get install tablet-battery-monitor? May 02 13:57:47 I can redo it once more May 02 13:57:52 no May 02 13:57:57 it broke *after* doing that May 02 13:58:01 k May 02 13:59:23 dpkg itself is fine, dpkg-query indeed doesn't exist May 02 13:59:35 works fine for me May 02 13:59:36 so, what should I install with it to fix that? May 02 14:00:09 full url plz :-/ May 02 14:00:45 or at least repo + name - I'll check if midori works still May 02 14:01:13 AStorm: dpkg should have that in it's own package O_o May 02 14:01:39 except it doesn't here? May 02 14:01:47 i have same image as you May 02 14:01:51 hmmh, link to midori failed - what is the pathname? May 02 14:01:54 dmesg says anything? May 02 14:02:03 only stuff about cx3310x powersaving May 02 14:02:06 hmm May 02 14:02:12 well at least that part works :P May 02 14:02:18 how big partition did you make for Mer? May 02 14:02:51 I'd like to know why the input statusbar keeps appearing and reappearing randomly while using bluetooth keyboard... May 02 14:03:08 Stskeeps, whole immc May 02 14:03:14 that is, 2GB, there's enough free space May 02 14:03:16 AStorm: hmm May 02 14:03:25 AStorm: that's really awkward that your setup acts like that May 02 14:03:52 uh, btw, why did it load umac? May 02 14:04:10 cos stlc45xx doesn't work under 2.6.21 May 02 14:04:49 (it grabs umac from initfs) May 02 14:04:50 hmm, I did "apt-get install tablet-battery-monitor" and got an xterm entry in Extras "install monitor" May 02 14:04:51 mhm May 02 14:05:03 I did that and my system exploded May 02 14:05:12 clicking that pulled up app-mgr May 02 14:05:26 AStorm: did you make swap btw? May 02 14:05:28 added "battery repo" May 02 14:05:33 no, I didn't May 02 14:05:35 * lbt has no swap May 02 14:05:35 just to diagnose May 02 14:06:11 lbt, here it didn't and perl exploded May 02 14:06:18 maybe stuff "just broke" May 02 14:06:32 by exploded... May 02 14:06:38 LANG = "en_GB.UTF-8"# May 02 14:06:41 crap? May 02 14:06:45 71% in use May 02 14:07:02 AStorm: what username did it end up with anyway? May 02 14:07:02 13% inodes in use May 02 14:07:12 my name, that is "radoslaw" May 02 14:07:15 bleh May 02 14:07:32 ah, that's the if [ $USERNAME = radoslaw ]; then mess shit up fi May 02 14:07:33 :P May 02 14:07:37 ;) May 02 14:07:45 can i see your bootmenu item? May 02 14:07:49 pastebin May 02 14:07:51 sure, that part works May 02 14:08:02 hmmh, w/o a browser it might be tricky May 02 14:08:06 I'll sftp it May 02 14:08:08 k May 02 14:08:12 \quit May 02 14:08:56 ssh started fine May 02 14:09:31 nopes. May 02 14:10:31 wow, now it can't find stuff like "dirname" May 02 14:10:35 or dircolors May 02 14:11:12 that's lesspipe crying May 02 14:11:17 interesting May 02 14:13:30 seems like sftp doesn't work May 02 14:13:33 I'll try scp May 02 14:14:06 hmm, connection refused, wth? May 02 14:15:36 no syslog? meeeeeh. May 02 14:15:41 logread or readlog May 02 14:15:50 anyhow, i gotta go to shop May 02 14:16:12 nothing interesing May 02 14:16:19 excluding UsePAM yes. :P May 02 14:17:55 but as I said, that part works May 02 14:18:37 I've exactly the same config as you gave me, with exception of INT_CARD and ext2 instead of jbd ext3 May 02 14:25:30 hello from xchat from gnome from gentoo from n800! May 02 14:26:44 join us & be happy :D May 02 14:28:16 slonopotamus: nice... but I'm doing alright with Pidgin from Maemo ;) May 02 14:28:59 slonopotamus: can you use many tablets as distcc? May 02 14:30:30 usually gentoo folks got distcc between all machines :) May 02 14:33:27 everything can be used for distcc May 02 14:36:11 distcc is useful in gentoo May 02 14:38:26 how to mount usb stick to tablet? (got usb hub and cable) does it mount automatically like sdcard? May 02 14:46:55 thux: yes it pop's up the file manager , but you first need to put the device in host mode, there is /was a usb control applet for that May 02 14:51:10 ok thanx May 02 14:51:27 qw May 02 14:51:40 Stskeeps: you are awake? May 02 14:53:34 he's gone shopping May 02 15:35:52 hola May 02 15:36:55 AStorm: i have seem your symptoms before - when i used ext2 May 02 15:37:18 it messes up the fs for some odd reason May 02 15:52:42 * Jaffa really wants a "FOAD" button alongside "Thanks!" after the last few days May 02 15:53:04 "FOAD"? May 02 15:53:14 F**k Off And Die, IIRC. May 02 15:53:30 ah. May 02 15:54:34 Come on, it's all the fault of those evil maemo.org folks. May 02 15:54:37 * sjgadsby grins. May 02 16:03:48 jaffa, if you get a FOAD button added it will erupt in a whole new set of threads about the placement and syntax etc :P May 02 16:04:45 * RST38h notices how the council members are walking the traditional road to mass murder May 02 16:05:41 You'd prefer they take a non-traditional path to that destination, RST38h? May 02 16:05:52 "We will make everybody's life better! -***- These people complain. -***- These people complain no matter what we do. -***- They are blaming us. -***- They are obnoxious. -***- KILL KILL KILL" May 02 16:06:10 sjgadsby: Actually, yes. It would be more entertaining. May 02 16:06:37 i'd love a big honkin system drive on rx51 May 02 16:06:50 for the lushness of the future May 02 16:07:01 12 cylinder? May 02 16:07:27 yeah - given n8x0 = 4 cylinder May 02 16:08:00 pupnik, better going for faster modem and better connectivity that way you can just upgrade your home base with however many racks you need May 02 16:08:45 if i were doing nx or vnc i might as well use a n800 May 02 16:09:15 just thinking about the kinds of OSs i'd enjoy, or the number of installed apps which is currently very limited May 02 16:09:22 nahh u could still use the 192GB onboard memory as a buffer May 02 16:09:40 i was hoping for 768MB May 02 16:09:42 but for days when your 1234832458348523842834234324songs arent enough at least you know you can dive into your back catalog May 02 16:10:09 i do agree there tho May 02 16:10:13 btw what's wrong? May 02 16:10:16 on my 810 its a bit of a squeeze May 02 16:10:21 hand May 02 16:10:21 mhm May 02 16:10:24 v sore May 02 16:10:29 stitches out in an hour May 02 16:10:37 :/ howd you cut it? May 02 16:10:46 nokia ovi May 02 16:11:20 dangerous work i suppose May 02 16:11:58 heh - ovi is finnish for door May 02 16:12:03 Jaffa: well when you change people's daily rhythm, the internet is full of people of people afraid of change :P May 02 16:12:22 It's not just the theme changes :-( May 02 16:13:22 * pupnik supports Jaffa, for whatever it's worth May 02 16:15:09 pupnik: ta :) May 02 16:15:26 Nice to know one isn't banging ones head against a brick wall. May 02 16:17:10 i think the main benefit will be encouraging more activity on maemo.org by the itt userbase May 02 16:19:28 Stskeeps, why does ext2 mess up then? May 02 16:19:39 maemo works fine here with ext2 immc... May 02 16:19:53 I can switch to ext3, why not May 02 16:21:30 also, 2.6.21 has to die. May 02 16:21:43 I can help killing it May 02 16:21:53 (if Mer happens to work) May 02 16:22:05 btw, do you have mapper packaged already? May 02 16:25:15 when do we switch to gcc 4? May 02 16:25:35 Mer should be built with that already... if it's not, that's some fail May 02 16:25:41 same with Fremantle May 02 16:25:44 i dunno May 02 16:25:56 it's ABI-compatible, eh May 02 16:26:16 (maybe one package more for older libstdc++) May 02 16:26:21 k May 02 16:26:55 with gcc 4 i think we can oprofile dosbox May 02 16:27:06 er i mean May 02 16:27:14 use the -f optimizations May 02 16:27:26 yeah May 02 16:27:36 still, we could use some assembly in there for dynamic mode May 02 16:28:04 yes, there is a dynamic recompiler that could give 100% boost May 02 16:28:14 and new sound blaster emulation May 02 16:28:19 it's quite exciting really May 02 16:28:24 gah, if I had more time and will May 02 16:28:28 :-( May 02 16:28:40 * AStorm goes to hunt some quantum mechanics May 02 16:28:48 you studying?> May 02 16:28:52 ayup May 02 16:29:10 do that then May 02 16:29:32 except I'm doing something else - hwr May 02 16:29:37 Mer will love it ;P May 02 16:29:47 is it a secret? May 02 16:29:58 handwriting recognition, heh May 02 16:30:47 with or without dynamic recompilation, you probably won't have much luck with x86 on arm May 02 16:31:00 sure I will May 02 16:31:04 JIT will speed up a lot May 02 16:31:20 AStorm: Ok. Who will do segment checks? May 02 16:31:23 dosbox is not *that* intensive running modern protected mode code May 02 16:31:33 AStorm: And address translation? May 02 16:31:34 ... protected mode. No segments. May 02 16:31:45 segments will have to be emulated, yes May 02 16:31:47 What do you mean "no segments"? May 02 16:32:00 Segment checks occur in protected mode May 02 16:32:13 don't we have no-execute-alike? May 02 16:32:16 could abuse that May 02 16:32:28 Not on arbitrary address ranges :) May 02 16:32:32 hmh May 02 16:32:51 arm has no segmentation protection? May 02 16:33:05 I thought it had some May 02 16:34:11 and we do have MMU in n810 May 02 16:38:22 what CPU do we have here? ARM1156 family? May 02 16:39:12 Yay, more conspiracies. May 02 16:40:50 nah, ARM1136 May 02 16:44:14 sure yeah, its MMU supports protection with non-aligned regions even May 02 16:45:44 AStorm: Pages != x86 segments May 02 16:45:50 Ah May 02 16:46:22 I don't care actually, x86 segments were aligned on page boundary May 02 16:46:28 (x86 page, 4KB) May 02 16:47:52 nope May 02 16:47:59 they were aligned to 16 bytes May 02 16:48:06 still are, too May 02 16:48:33 hmm, true May 02 16:48:37 no problem for ARM though May 02 16:48:58 anyways, x86 has got so much weird non-optional hardware that simulating it on a different architecture quickly is near impossible May 02 16:49:16 good for Intel monopoly though =) May 02 16:49:25 all that is done in dosbox already May 02 16:49:32 we have to add the JIT for CPU if possible May 02 16:49:36 I know it is, but not quickly enough May 02 16:49:44 that should help a lot May 02 16:49:50 another bit is sound emulation May 02 16:49:58 yes, it will help...a bit May 02 16:52:19 a huge way, not a bit May 02 16:52:59 because just using the JIT would be a good gain May 02 16:53:14 and writing that JITted code in assembly should help even more May 02 16:55:52 AStorm: At the end of the day, it will still be slow. Unless you ake a few shortcuts of course, but that may kill compatibility May 02 16:56:40 fast enough to run some things May 02 16:57:19 Stskeeps, are you making the rootfs with dir_index? May 02 16:57:19 yea, true May 02 17:00:11 AStorm: not sure, maybe May 02 17:00:27 check for -O dir_index May 02 17:01:29 meh... how do I tell merinstaller that I have the mer file on n810 already? May 02 17:03:09 i think you'll be able to run 16mhz 386 games on next dosbox on next tablet May 02 17:03:22 with sb1/2 emulation running, frameskip 1-2 May 02 17:04:00 basically it means breaking out of the ega and into the vga era May 02 17:04:23 Let me see... May 02 17:04:46 386 did one instruction in 4-8 clocks, on the average May 02 17:05:15 except we have to simulate gfx scanlining May 02 17:05:19 I.e. we are talking about 2-4MIPS May 02 17:05:22 and do some scaling May 02 17:05:23 pupnik, you mentioned dangerous work, heres an outline of what happened http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/229097 May 02 17:05:35 Ah forget graphics for now, VGA graphics is really simple anyway May 02 17:05:52 graphics on 810 are fast enough May 02 17:06:27 good grief lcuk May 02 17:06:36 Yes, you should be able to do 2-4MIPS on N8x0 May 02 17:06:46 except you have to simulate the scanlines and scale the output... (the latter can be hardware, I also want an Xv driver for dosbox) May 02 17:06:55 you could bank on my prediction RST38h :) too much time spent with dosbox May 02 17:07:00 (no opengl on my radeonhd yet) May 02 17:07:38 unless we can drive the LCD at exactly the needed VGA clock May 02 17:07:49 lcuk: Of course that should be Evil Nokia Conspiracy (tm) May 02 17:07:58 In fact, let us just use ENC from now on May 02 17:08:15 Nokia Siemens Conspiracy ;) May 02 17:08:23 Now, THIS sound wrong May 02 17:08:25 =) May 02 17:08:39 recently, there has been some "inteligent building" demo of the two companies... together May 02 17:08:49 just outside my uni May 02 17:14:25 Isn't "intelligent building" exactly what cuts fingers, suffocates people with halon, locks them in elevators, etc? =) May 02 17:16:46 rarely May 02 17:17:00 elevators lock more often in dumb buildings actually May 02 17:17:14 the "cuts fingers" part was due to a handle on door May 02 17:17:16 *doors May 02 17:17:30 who needs handles when the door open automatically? May 02 17:17:45 (yes, for emergencies) May 02 17:20:02 bbl stitches out May 02 17:23:25 RST38h, also, halon bombing is more likely in a dumb building too May 02 17:23:31 because that will just detect smoke May 02 17:23:51 (instead of checking also temperature and optical) May 02 17:28:00 AStorm <-- completely discounts the idea of evil AI May 02 17:32:04 I do know that people can be more evil than AI. So, yeah. May 02 17:34:17 That is ill-intentioned May 02 17:34:28 AI has no intentions, it is just evil May 02 17:34:54 that's why it can't be evil May 02 17:35:03 evil requires selfishness May 02 17:35:07 that's an intention May 02 17:35:09 ;P May 02 17:39:52 mmm....not necessarily May 02 17:43:08 oh really? tell me the reason for being evil, other than self-interest... May 02 17:43:10 ;P May 02 17:43:35 The most common reason is good intentions May 02 17:44:00 Half the original commies were selfless, good intentioned men May 02 18:12:19 what about the other half? May 02 18:30:40 elnijnja: selfish guys who killed the first half, but only after the first half managed to slaughter/starve/execute/etc great deal of human beings May 02 18:34:08 http://www.amazon.com/Black-Book-Communism-Crimes-Repression/dp/0674076087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241289235&sr=8-1 May 02 18:34:15 The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression (Hardcover) May 02 18:34:45 'lo TrueJournals May 02 18:34:47 Ah, it is probably the usual anticommie drivel May 02 18:34:55 Hello Stskeeps May 02 18:35:16 "Tthe authors have slowly, methodically, relentlessly added example after example to put in display, naked, a monster that killed tens of millions in the 20th Century and that will continue to kill (one hopes in a far smaller scale) in the 21st until it wastes itself out and vanishes." May 02 18:35:44 Prolly not, it has been all but extinct May 02 18:36:00 Tell that to China. May 02 18:36:04 Unless, of course, the world goes into really bad economic misery May 02 18:36:38 Not that I'm accusing them of killing tens of millions... at least not right now... but they are ostensibly Communist. May 02 18:36:40 derf: How much of Chinese politics is due to ideology and how much is due to these guys being Chinese? :) May 02 18:37:08 derf: (btw absolutely same thing can be asked about USSR, especially now when we see that few things changed on top) May 02 18:37:52 Right... I think the label "Communist" matters a lot less than it used to. May 02 18:38:50 pupnik: For real entertainment, try this: http://www.amazon.com/Pol-Pot-Nightmare-Philip-Short/dp/0805080066/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239408260&sr=1-1 May 02 18:39:05 :/ bookmarked May 02 18:39:27 pupnik: None of the original commies are even *close* to this French philosophy student =) May 02 18:39:45 'day zero' May 02 19:35:40 hi, i need to delete a dead link from the 'extras'-menue on my nokia n810; the program is already deleted. can any1 give me a hint where to do that? May 02 19:36:17 how did you "delete" it? May 02 19:37:01 via program manager May 02 19:37:22 i think the link is still there because the software i deleted is navit, it updated itself 2 times May 02 19:39:25 is this the next tablet or n97 http://callingallinnovators.com/Wiki_Places.html May 02 19:39:34 s7 /usr/share/applications/hildon/[app].desktop May 02 19:39:50 thx a lot, lcuk May 02 19:41:08 mikkov__: looks n97 May 02 19:41:27 ui looks maemo5? May 02 19:43:30 the icons look like Nokia Mapps May 02 19:43:34 Maps* May 02 19:43:36 yeah, you're right May 02 19:43:38 physically, it looks like an N97 but I would agree with mikkov_ on the UI May 02 19:43:59 wayfinder of Maemo has diff icons iirc May 02 19:44:29 oh right it says maos below May 02 19:44:42 i just looked at the picture heh May 02 19:45:29 ^ Maemo5 + N97? May 02 19:45:53 * xnt wants May 02 19:46:29 Maemo 5 has 3g support May 02 19:46:30 ? May 02 19:46:36 does an1one in here use navit with openstreetmap on an n810? May 02 19:46:48 It would be funny if there was theme X available for both S60_5thED and Maemo5 May 02 19:47:03 im guessing that maemo5 will be on nokia's other phones also May 02 19:47:20 * xnt will have to buy a new phone noq May 02 19:47:22 *now May 02 19:48:47 that site just crashed my browser :( May 02 19:49:03 what a meanie May 02 19:49:38 hello May 02 19:53:36 hola May 02 19:57:53 is there a maemo5 vmdk? or a kvm image? May 02 19:58:46 anybody see the wolverine movie? May 02 19:58:53 was wondering if it was as bad as x3 May 02 19:59:21 * fireun will wait for dvd May 02 19:59:46 it looks like a flash in the pan May 02 19:59:50 no substance May 02 19:59:51 she dies at the end and the butler did it May 02 20:00:11 never trust the butler, with that damn smirk all the time May 02 20:01:46 "oooh, I'm gonna serve yer drink, oooh, let me open the door for yeh" *KNIFE KNIFE KNIFE* May 02 20:01:58 so of course, wolverine has no chance May 02 20:04:27 xavier was a butler once, I bet you didnt know that May 02 20:05:58 xnt, your probably better off making your own, just download the installer scripts, and install ubuntu on vm yourself May 02 20:06:06 it would be faster for sure May 02 20:06:12 pb: ok thanks May 02 20:13:00 hello May 02 20:13:22 Stskeeps, could we have xchat in Mer repos please? May 02 20:13:58 it is there. May 02 20:14:25 thats a windows app tho May 02 20:14:38 mikkov_, / xnt ^ May 02 20:15:04 or do s60 devices have the same style windows xp type scrollbars May 02 20:15:27 oh, in Other... why there? :P May 02 20:15:30 not Communication? May 02 20:15:54 lcuk: what? May 02 20:16:14 the ui mikkov_ posted May 02 20:16:20 AStorm: i'm using the new package category for that package. don't think mer is using them atm though :/ May 02 20:16:34 yeah, it isn't May 02 20:16:52 Advanced Power is crying about missing hal-addon-bme - I recommend a symlink May 02 20:17:12 oh, wait, diff. server May 02 20:17:14 then a repo link May 02 20:19:26 also, fix that Organize finally or sth May 02 20:19:45 (and/or tell me how to reorder stuff manually) May 02 20:22:26 yeah ok May 02 20:31:13 xnt, I have this terrible feeling that nokia will try to do something "revolutionary" and "progressive", and make a "phone" without GSM/3G voice, just VoIP and maybe UMA May 02 20:32:39 ShadowJK_: thats my exact fear, but by the looks of that picture that mikkov posted maemo5 will also be runable on the n97 :) May 02 20:33:15 Doesn't mean they'd necessarily have legacy voice support in maemo :) May 02 20:33:34 speaking of UMA, they should really have that on every S60 atleast :( May 02 20:33:38 not just ONE model :/ May 02 20:49:29 mikkov_: last i checked any Maps app that might exist for Maemo5 was nowhere near remotely usable May 02 20:49:49 so I'd bet against it being related to Maemo5 :) May 02 20:51:23 also, the scrollbar in one of the slides to me indicates someone isn't very good w/ PhotoShop May 02 20:51:29 i mean... really May 02 20:51:43 ShadowJK_, even then, we can fix that May 02 20:52:09 as in, it's released with all proper docs for the modem and it's the first thing being done :) May 02 20:52:16 people need to learn how to PhotoShop :( May 02 20:52:22 lern2gimp May 02 20:52:26 ;P May 02 20:52:46 nah May 02 20:52:53 docs wont be forthcoming May 02 20:52:56 so, let's play a game May 02 20:53:20 why not... it's not like GSM modems contain hundreds of trade secrets May 02 20:53:23 can someone tell me what else is wrong between frame 1 and frame 2 of wiki-steps.jpg? May 02 20:53:26 timeless, alternatively they could use the screenshot tool on the device itself May 02 20:53:28 but yes, some companies are crazy May 02 20:53:41 Or atleast I thought Nokia made a point of it when Symbian gained RTOS capability, that they now could run softmodem and the OS on the same single CPU rather than having two different CPUs for it May 02 20:53:43 all we need is a way to talk to it in actual raw packet way May 02 20:53:48 frame-1 = "Services", frame-2 = "WikiPlaces" May 02 20:54:05 then you can have normal voice via GPRS May 02 20:54:20 or even old GSM May 02 20:54:23 And Linux never gained any softmodem implementation on the regular telephone side, so I'd assume it'd never gain an implementation for 3g and gsm either :) May 02 20:54:30 lololol timeless i notice something else May 02 20:54:31 uhm? May 02 20:54:33 wrong. May 02 20:54:40 3G and GSM are much easier May 02 20:54:51 softmodems require knowledge of the modem chips May 02 20:54:55 lcuk: what did you notice? :) May 02 20:55:03 it's not like we don't have software radios already May 02 20:55:21 either the app took a LONG time to start, ot they have a tardis or its multi sessions :D May 02 20:55:24 so, if we can feed it raw packets... (supposing these are well-formed) May 02 20:55:40 but for FCC cert purposes Nokia will have to provide a binary blob driver anyway May 02 20:55:41 lcuk: good catch :) May 02 20:55:43 :/ May 02 20:55:51 (if they go software way at all) May 02 20:56:03 what else? :) May 02 20:56:08 timeless, the frame1 to 2 titles are expected to change arent they - if after all the user clicked a button and ran a different app May 02 20:56:29 lcuk: general placement and width of buttons should not change May 02 20:56:39 since in theory they're managed by the platform May 02 20:56:54 sure you can expect "Services" to be replaced by "Wiki Places" May 02 20:56:58 ooh i hadnt caught that one lol May 02 20:57:12 you sir have a good eye :) May 02 20:57:35 i'm not quite sure about the right edge May 02 20:57:51 but whatever thing on the left ... i claim that's a photoshopping error May 02 20:57:59 and that leaves not much confidence for the right side :) May 02 20:58:32 oh. and would someone please remind me to kill whichever map localizer was involved? May 02 20:58:49 "Your Current Position is" <- what kind of Drunken Titlecaps is That!?? May 02 20:59:31 btw, please excuse my ignorance of metric units, but... May 02 20:59:48 do you usually write: "1km", "1k", "1 k", "1 km", or something else? :) May 02 20:59:52 1 km May 02 21:00:05 the unit is m, with SI prefix it's km May 02 21:00:39 thanks, note that i added options to get an answer about the lack of a space before the unit May 02 21:00:45 * timeless_mbp doesn't care about spelling here May 02 21:01:05 or in other words, 3.2808399 ft May 02 21:01:16 * 1000 May 02 21:01:19 heh May 02 21:01:30 iow, localizer = braindead May 02 21:01:44 haha, now, convert that to miles for fun and profit May 02 21:01:59 0.621371192 miles, US I think. May 02 21:02:08 that's 1 km May 02 21:02:17 yes, imperial units *are* braindead May 02 21:02:25 there's one SI unit I like - it's a barn. May 02 21:02:31 heh May 02 21:03:01 well, this was clearly a braindead localiser (i.e. someone failing to impersonate British) May 02 21:03:16 since the localiser failed to include the obligatory space in a metric unit :) May 02 21:04:23 * lcuk wouldnt put one either lol May 02 21:04:47 yeah, that's a different story May 02 21:04:54 i'd personally expect x m instead May 02 21:05:02 but that's a coder/ui-spec bug May 02 21:05:18 actually, barn is USAnian unit ;) May 02 21:07:35 I recommend everyone to measure in yottabarns May 02 21:07:55 heck, I'll even make that an optional unit in my hwr May 02 21:09:01 (for an area, of course) May 02 21:10:35 hm, wrong, too large May 02 21:10:47 only need zettabarns May 02 21:13:50 Stskeeps, hmm, found a "feature" in application manager May 02 21:14:06 it now doesn't want to go back to the category selector May 02 21:14:38 maybe there are now only 3 apps to show or sth May 02 21:18:47 yeah - there's a block somewhere May 02 21:18:56 it'll hopefully go away in the HAM update from fremantle May 02 21:30:02 btw, who does adv. backlight? I'd like an option to only dim the screen w/o turning it off May 02 21:30:12 rm_you May 02 21:30:13 (on same timeout) May 02 21:30:18 rm_you, pingy May 02 21:30:27 and the problem is actually in DSME :P May 02 21:30:37 aw shucks ;) May 02 21:30:39 we're going to work on putting it through HAL and powerlaunch magic May 02 21:30:55 I know HAL, but not Powerlaunch... guess I'll have to learn May 02 21:31:19 powerlaunch is basically a event-reaction scripting language May 02 21:31:40 has a bit weird syntax but it makes sense May 02 21:33:52 ok, so you say, throw this away and redo it in something sane? later ;) May 02 21:34:07 we need better-optimized byte-compiled language May 02 21:34:20 no, not Perl. May 02 21:34:33 well, considering the fact it's a lot of tiny recipes, i've actually had trouble coming up with something saner than powerlaunch May 02 21:34:36 and that's scary May 02 21:35:04 tiny things like "on x do y" event system May 02 21:35:24 basically, but there's also mode changes in it May 02 21:35:35 so "push all events towards X module instead" May 02 21:35:35 so it's a stateful event-based system. duh May 02 21:35:41 and yes May 02 21:35:46 ouch, wait, then it's a broken split event system May 02 21:35:49 PITA May 02 21:36:00 well it makes sense though May 02 21:36:13 when you have clicked power button, action/response is different May 02 21:36:13 you can take many broken pieces and put them together into something that works May 02 21:36:26 sometimes, somewhat :) May 02 21:36:31 assuming the API is good May 02 21:36:36 I recommend bash May 02 21:36:49 do it "the POSIX way" May 02 21:36:58 but the cost/benefit/time of redoing everything the sticky tape solution manages is what makes things tough May 02 21:36:59 except bash is a memory and cpu hungry bastard :P May 02 21:37:06 also May 02 21:37:11 memory, maybe, cpu, not really May 02 21:37:14 powerlaunch comes with glade, dbus, etc support May 02 21:37:18 and is fairly lightweight May 02 21:37:28 dbus-monitor? glade means start another app May 02 21:37:38 :) May 02 21:37:43 eh, no, it does it within powerlaunch May 02 21:37:51 anyway May 02 21:37:58 take a look at it, i'm glad to hear proposals for better stuff :) May 02 21:38:05 which adds to my idea of a broken Piece of Software May 02 21:38:06 i wanted to replace it too initially May 02 21:38:33 also keep in mind launcing another app is not always the answer on a n8x0 if it's to feel slightly interactive :P May 02 21:38:36 heck, you could use advanced variant of Xdialog and still have better UI May 02 21:38:40 :P May 02 21:39:42 sure - powerlaunch ui is just how it is to look like the typical power button ui. but the point of PL isn't the power button ui, it's the behaviour of tablet stuff :) May 02 21:39:53 it's a generic event-reaction daemon, which is really useful to have :P May 02 21:40:12 it can implement a lot of the behaviours of a tablet, without having to resort to several daemon processes May 02 21:40:55 it's so generic, you can replace it with bashâ„¢ May 02 21:41:03 and without having to run shell scripts on events May 02 21:41:13 s/bash/insert any scripted language here/ May 02 21:41:13 AStorm meant: it's so generic, you can replace it with insert any scripted language hereâ„¢ May 02 21:41:25 infobot, failure. May 02 21:41:32 somebody said failure was always an option, or http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5784521764&pageNo=1&sid=1#15 May 02 21:41:49 for this bot, it is. May 02 21:41:51 AStorm: yeah.. just don't resort to bash as the solution, because that's rather insane :P May 02 21:41:53 we actually had that on the zaurus and it creates noticeable lag on screen rotation May 02 21:42:12 because you don't have a.... bash daemon May 02 21:42:21 yes, real bash uses named pipes. May 02 21:42:23 :) May 02 21:42:29 why pay to start it up every time May 02 21:42:54 how about at least a dash daemon May 02 21:43:05 keep in mind, some of these machines will have 64MB of RAM May 02 21:43:15 well, POSIX shell. May 02 21:43:22 or at least, 95% POSIX. May 02 21:43:29 ok, that sounds better already :) May 02 21:43:32 not the broken cut busybox shell May 02 21:44:46 blah May 02 21:44:57 next step is an Xdialog daemon May 02 21:44:57 long day today. need to rest. May 02 21:45:19 AStorm: anyway.. my requirement for such a language is easily understandable and stable, as in, it doesn't crash on broken scripts. someone should be able to write a recipe for certain behaviour ("press headset button while tethered => mute music") etc May 02 21:45:26 Stskeeps, ah btw, is this vim in Mer actual vim 7 with some additions? May 02 21:45:44 Stskeeps, yeah, neither shell nor powerlaunch is May 02 21:45:44 AStorm: there's vim-tiny and vim i think but i think it's real vim. May 02 21:46:00 shell can at least be made May 02 21:46:02 included editors for devel handiness May 02 21:46:17 yes, you can start separated subshells w/o restarting bash May 02 21:46:27 not sure if POSIX sh can do that May 02 21:47:05 yeah, someone actually wrote a httpd in bash May 02 21:47:09 with security. May 02 21:47:57 anyway, i'd love a powerlaunch replacement, but having a larger number of processes (including dbus-monitor, etc) and other crap running in mem, instead of a single C process with simply GTK, dbus and such,.. May 02 21:48:04 is a bit insane :) May 02 21:48:12 AStorm: pretty sure that's not possible ;) May 02 21:48:13 i'd love another language too, i think powerlaunch syntax is ugly :P May 02 21:48:39 which eats how much ram already? :> May 02 21:48:54 luke-jr_, it is May 02 21:49:00 luke-jr_, ever heard about /dev/tcp? May 02 21:49:00 i'd love to tell you but i don't have a mer n8x0 open May 02 21:49:07 AStorm: yeah, but how do you listen? May 02 21:49:10 I do. May 02 21:49:25 AStorm: and with maemo-launcher it's a hell lot less memory May 02 21:49:49 luke-jr_, same :) May 02 21:49:49 you cat a port May 02 21:49:54 AStorm: then give me a hint on the memory size of bash vs powerlaunch :P May 02 21:50:06 but I'd rather have inetd running than this May 02 21:50:10 AStorm: eh? May 02 21:50:19 AStorm: oh, leave out the IP part? May 02 21:50:38 hmm, nah, you need bash 4 for this May 02 21:50:41 newness May 02 21:50:43 :P May 02 21:50:47 oh May 02 21:50:57 AStorm: what is the path used? May 02 21:51:04 how can it differentiate between connect and listen? May 02 21:52:17 * Stskeeps boots up his mer. May 02 21:52:18 luke-jr_, because of using a pure . for listen May 02 21:52:29 a what? May 02 21:52:37 /dev/tcp/./port May 02 21:52:43 that listens on all interfaces May 02 21:52:44 i c May 02 21:52:48 what if I want to bind a specific IP? ;) May 02 21:52:53 not sure how. May 02 21:52:58 still, there's netcat May 02 21:53:00 :) May 02 21:53:04 netcat isn't bash May 02 21:53:25 yeah, but close enough May 02 21:53:28 * johnx has difficulty that this will take up less memory than powerlaunch (but would love to be proven wrong) May 02 21:53:53 s/ty th/ty believing th/ May 02 21:53:54 Stskeeps, hey, I installed the apps and they didn't show up in the menu May 02 21:54:09 AStorm, which apps? May 02 21:54:12 ah, not just Organize is broken May 02 21:54:22 also the install part of selecting the place May 02 21:54:36 all got dumped into Extras despite other choices May 02 21:55:05 okay, so 1.4% of one bash instance and 5.0% of powerlaunch May 02 21:55:09 powerlaunch needs maemo-launcher though. May 02 21:56:22 aanyway. i'm off to bed May 02 21:57:38 hehe May 02 21:57:53 considering how much crap powerlaunch keeps track of however.. May 02 22:07:05 * GeneralAntilles comes home, looks at itT and gets depressed. May 02 22:09:12 Wow, those wiki places screenshots look a lot like Maemo 5, don't they? May 02 22:10:35 GeneralAntilles: except for being a bad photoshop job (see scrollback) May 02 22:11:05 timeless_mbp, ah. May 02 22:11:14 timeless_mbp, how do I clone MXR by the way? May 02 22:11:38 hg clone mxr.maemo.org; hg clone timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test; May 02 22:11:39 iirc May 02 22:11:52 the former is just branding May 02 22:11:55 * xnt now F*cking Hates PulseAudio... May 02 22:11:56 the latter is the code May 02 22:12:08 xnt: this isn't #twitter May 02 22:12:12 abort: repository mxr.maemo.org not found! abort: repository timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test not found! May 02 22:12:19 hrm May 02 22:12:37 did you include http: :) May 02 22:12:47 sorry, just wanted to vent my anger somewhere :P May 02 22:13:11 GeneralAntilles: sorry, it's 1am and i haven't had dinner/lunch May 02 22:13:20 i think if you add http:// it should work :) May 02 22:13:23 WHAT? that was shopped? May 02 22:13:25 abort: 'http://mxr.maemo.org/' does not appear to be an hg repository! destination directory: mxr-test real URL is http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/ abort: 'http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/' does not appear to be an hg repository! May 02 22:13:35 ok, or not :) May 02 22:14:05 timeless_mbp, no worries, trying to find something more productive to do than watch the spirally, flaming descent of itT orchestrated by a bunch of angry trolls. May 02 22:14:45 talk.maemo.org doesn't resolve :( May 02 22:15:07 timeless_mbp: your right :( May 02 22:15:23 nxdomain here too :( May 02 22:15:44 timeless_mbp: wtf, they actually have a #twitter channel? May 02 22:16:02 xnt: i so don't want to know :) May 02 22:16:17 :P May 02 22:16:42 timeless_mbp, waiting on Nokia to change the DNS. Not sure if they have it's propagating or if they've just been ignoring us. May 02 22:18:11 ok, try that instead May 02 22:18:25 i probably don't have .htaccess in a .hg sharing mood May 02 22:21:04 GeneralAntilles, eh, pretty sure it will all blow over. Eventually even the people who don't like the new theme will get tired of listening to the trolls complaining :) May 02 22:21:25 johnx, hopefully, but it's more . . . angry than these sorts of things have been in the past. May 02 22:21:35 more people = more angry May 02 22:21:37 There's a lot more "we hate maemo.org" tied up in the whole thing. May 02 22:22:14 eh, I think they'll get used to it or go away eventually. or that's what I hope May 02 22:24:10 Several of them I'd rather see gone, true. May 02 22:24:24 In the mean time, though, I'm worried that they're doing a lot of damage. May 02 22:24:56 I think a lot of people are just avoiding those threads. I know I am May 02 22:27:30 The whole Maemo School thing is rather depressing, too. May 02 22:27:45 honestly, I like the brighter colours, just the implementation annoys me May 02 22:28:08 GeneralAntilles, I would like to see that go somewhere, but that's another thread I don't have the energy to follow. May 02 22:28:58 I would, too, but I'd rather NOT see time and energy spent creating a custom solution when there's a perfectly usable wiki that fulfills all of the technical requirements running right now. May 02 22:29:11 hola May 02 22:29:21 hi NCommander May 02 22:29:29 Also, I don't really love the whole "only one editor" idea. May 02 22:29:30 johnx, how goes it? May 02 22:29:35 It sort of goes against the spirit of maemo.org. May 02 22:29:56 GeneralAntilles, it's funny that some people want a more community feel and some people want more hand holding May 02 22:30:13 NCommander, well enough. kinda busy. and you? May 02 22:30:27 johnx, just ran into the OS2008 bug with external keyboard (yay LAG! :-/) May 02 22:31:03 yay lag? May 02 22:31:11 did you disable all the predictive text stuff? May 02 22:31:21 johnx, trying to find them all :-/ May 02 22:31:32 johnx, I'm told though even with all of them off, there is still a resudial lag. May 02 22:31:34 input -> dictionaries May 02 22:31:48 * ShadowJK_ thought the initial lag was just due to bluetooth powersaving :-) May 02 22:31:52 there is some even with a usb keyboard. it's mostly high CPU requirements I think May 02 22:31:54 dunno why May 02 22:32:39 johnx, I used to use an internal keyboard on a Palm III, which had an 8Mhz processor May 02 22:32:47 If the N810 can't drive one, I would be *greatly* disturbed :-) May 02 22:33:13 and most of the OS for the palm III was probably written in assembly :) May 02 22:33:26 johnx, point taken May 02 22:33:34 johnx, no love May 02 22:33:43 The process keeps spiking everytime I type May 02 22:33:43 gtk is in some ways a bit heavy for this, especially input into a browser suffers for me May 02 22:33:55 * NCommander notes Qt is as bad or worse May 02 22:33:55 try switching to performance mode? May 02 22:34:13 where's the switch? May 02 22:34:19 * NCommander is fairly new to the N810 as a PDA May 02 22:34:29 it's a command line thing :) May 02 22:34:37 ah, right at home there May 02 22:34:39 or a liqbase thing :P May 02 22:34:46 Or adv-power. May 02 22:35:12 "106. I do not have weapon proficiency in cat." :D May 02 22:35:28 oh, btw, what do I have to do to install adv. power on mer? May 02 22:35:36 which repo(s) to add? May 02 22:37:11 johnx, I'm fairly sure its a OS2008 issue :-/ May 02 22:37:49 well, adv power is up here: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/advanced-power May 02 22:37:51 the hw keyboard on N810 suffers no lag ime? May 02 22:37:58 no ideas about bt keyboards other than that... May 02 22:39:10 ShadowJK_, I might not be able to type fast enough to trigger it May 02 22:39:19 I know hildon does some weird things with Gtk input May 02 22:43:32 ShadowJK_, yes, it doesn't May 02 22:43:43 tested that, I can type fairly fast on this May 02 22:45:36 yes May 02 22:45:57 I can type even faster on bluetooth keyboard because the keys are nicer May 02 22:46:33 But the first keystroke after a pause takes ages to register, I always assumed it was waking up from powersaving slumber.. May 02 22:50:54 * NCommander gets stutters of lag May 02 22:50:59 Its completely unusable for me :-/ May 02 23:00:56 Can we just deploy the Debian packages application to maemo.org? May 02 23:33:00 I wish avatars on Talk were bigger I lose so much detail in my new one May 02 23:33:45 I took the time to recreate my entire n810 viewing maemo.org but at 50 pixels square its hard to see May 02 23:33:55 AndrewFBlack, feel free to open a Newstyle enhancement request. May 02 23:34:38 I mean its ok everyone elses looks ok I just put to much detail into my drawning I even drew the keys out. May 02 23:35:01 I used real the test from maemo.orgs front page also lol May 03 00:58:03 AStorm: pongy? May 03 01:31:22 * AndrewFBlack is getting a headache from all the fightin on Talk May 03 01:31:47 AndrewFBlack, I'm just getting depressed. ;) May 03 01:33:09 It wouldn't be so bad it there wasn't so many threads ask/saying the same things I don't know how many times we have to tell them no we can't just put the old theme up it doesn't work with new version of vBulletin May 03 01:38:39 have you noticed after I told people to stop complaining on my minimalist theme post no one has posted anything lol May 03 01:43:27 they're being minimalist May 03 01:46:24 heh May 03 01:46:40 damn nihilists May 03 01:47:47 totally different than the minimalists, of course May 03 02:38:53 ~nuke b-man's MMC May 03 02:38:55 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at b-man's MMC ... B☢☢M! May 03 02:38:59 :P May 03 02:39:02 lol May 03 02:39:32 lol May 03 02:41:15 ~nuke xnt's HDD May 03 02:41:16 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at xnt's HDD ... B☢☢M! May 03 02:41:47 lol May 03 02:41:54 * xnt is on an ssd May 03 02:42:04 ~nuke b-man's cpu May 03 02:42:06 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at b-man's cpu ... B☢☢M! May 03 02:42:16 ~nuke xnt's SSD May 03 02:42:17 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at xnt's SSD ... B☢☢M! May 03 02:42:20 XD May 03 02:42:43 ~nuke xnt's computer May 03 02:42:44 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at xnt's computer ... B☢☢M! May 03 02:42:50 lolol May 03 02:42:54 * xnt gets on his eee May 03 02:43:07 ~nuke xnt's eee May 03 02:43:08 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at xnt's eee ... B☢☢M! May 03 02:43:19 ~kill b-man May 03 02:43:20 * infobot shoots a excited photon gun at b-man May 03 02:43:22 hahaha May 03 02:43:26 noooo!!! May 03 02:43:32 ~attack b-man's body May 03 02:43:33 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing b-man's body May 03 02:43:56 * b-man can run when he's dead? 0o May 03 02:44:14 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html May 03 02:44:16 :P May 03 02:44:32 ~bored May 03 02:44:33 La ... lalalala ... beer! May 03 02:44:38 what? May 03 02:44:42 lol May 03 02:44:43 wtf, :P May 03 02:44:46 ~wtf May 03 02:44:54 ~help May 03 02:44:56 ~ok May 03 02:45:00 ~shutup May 03 02:45:02 fine May 03 02:45:02 ~die May 03 02:45:04 yes master, I'll STFU May 03 02:45:06 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. May 03 02:45:11 :P May 03 02:45:12 lol May 03 02:45:14 lol May 03 02:45:20 ~hump May 03 02:45:21 * infobot humps the channel May 03 02:45:23 lol May 03 02:45:26 ~hack May 03 02:45:27 lol May 03 02:45:36 ~shag May 03 02:45:36 ~fly May 03 02:45:37 * infobot strips and bends over.. give it to me baby ;) May 03 02:45:38 * infobot flies a F16, or http://photos.photosig.com/photos/85/49/1144985-bf2effb0adcf81c9.jpg May 03 02:45:47 lol May 03 02:45:55 lol May 03 02:46:17 ~burn himself May 03 02:46:17 ~brb May 03 02:46:18 * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze May 03 02:46:19 xnt_eee: brb, too. Be Right Back May 03 02:46:23 lol May 03 02:46:25 ~lol May 03 02:46:27 it has been said that lol is stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead. May 03 02:46:27 lol May 03 02:46:35 * xnt_eee lol May 03 02:46:39 lol May 03 02:46:42 rofl May 03 02:46:45 ~nit May 03 02:46:46 i heard nit is Nokia Internet Tablet May 03 02:46:53 ~b-man May 03 02:46:55 ~rofl May 03 02:46:56 it has been said that rofl is rolling on the floor laughing May 03 02:47:00 ~xnt May 03 02:47:09 ~kill May 03 02:47:22 ~infobot May 03 02:47:23 hmm... infobot is [infobot], or infobot, or likes abuse May 03 02:47:30 lol May 03 02:47:30 ~status May 03 02:47:31 Since Thu Apr 30 17:30:04 2009, there have been 42 modifications, 237 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 131 commands. I have been awake for 2d 9h 17m 26s this session, and currently reference 116128 factoids. I'm using about 21520 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 5402.81/229.91 child 0.09/0.05 May 03 02:47:40 lol May 03 02:48:04 infobot: you suck May 03 02:48:05 and very well I might add May 03 02:48:08 ~google lol May 03 02:48:10 lol May 03 02:49:11 ~read lol May 03 02:49:21 ~buy b-man May 03 02:49:30 ~Help! May 03 02:49:31 it has been said that help is /msg infobot help May 03 02:49:33 ~lol May 03 02:49:34 [lol] stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead. May 03 02:49:35 ~dead May 03 02:49:36 yes :( May 03 02:49:45 infobot: your a dork May 03 02:49:56 ~dork May 03 02:50:00 Right back at you, b-man. May 03 02:50:14 f*ck you, infobot May 03 02:50:26 infobot: kernelstats May 03 02:50:28 lulz May 03 02:50:33 ~lulz May 03 02:50:34 * infobot did it for da lulz May 03 02:50:43 ~attack luke-jr May 03 02:50:44 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing luke-jr May 03 02:50:49 lol May 03 02:50:53 ~die May 03 02:50:55 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. May 03 02:51:07 heheha May 03 02:51:10 ~stab luke-jr_ May 03 02:51:11 * infobot runs at luke-jr_ with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. May 03 02:51:18 lol May 03 02:51:20 lol May 03 02:51:24 b-man: xnt_eee! May 03 02:51:29 come to #anime for IRC gamez May 03 02:51:44 shure !!! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 03 02:59:58 2009