**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 04 02:59:57 2009
May 04 03:16:35 <alex_mayorga_N80> hello
May 04 03:17:06 <alex_mayorga_N80> can anyone help? my n800 is "talking"
May 04 03:18:00 <alex_mayorga_N80> I installed kde and there seems to be some text to speech going on
May 04 03:18:15 <alex_mayorga_N80> how can I stop it?
May 04 03:27:14 <alex_mayorga_N80> what can it be?
May 04 03:33:48 <Snaht> are the back/home buttons on the n810 supposed to be backlit?
May 04 03:33:57 <xnt_> Nope
May 04 03:34:04 <xnt_> they aren't
May 04 03:34:20 <Snaht> cool, then it's not broken
May 04 03:34:35 <xnt_> :)
May 04 03:34:43 <Snaht> hooray for non-broken stuff
May 04 03:34:49 <Snaht> thanks
May 04 03:58:48 <alex_mayorga_N80> I finally figured out what made my n800 talk flite on Mauku
May 04 04:30:14 <luke-jr> any place to download qt mapper source that isn't https?
May 04 04:30:22 <luke-jr> or at least one with a curl-happy cert?
May 04 04:30:51 <zakkm> cant use https?
May 04 04:31:11 <zakkm> luke-jr: try with taking the s out
May 04 04:32:32 <luke-jr> it redirects
May 04 04:32:37 <zakkm> oh
May 04 04:32:40 <zakkm> worth a try :)
May 04 04:32:42 <luke-jr> zakkm: wget doesn't like garage's https cert
May 04 04:33:02 <zakkm> cant think of what i did to go around that
May 04 04:47:50 <cars__> Hello.
May 04 04:50:50 <radic> why is the cache of the browser disabled by default?
May 04 04:51:15 <luke-jr> probably to minimize flash writes
May 04 04:52:29 <slonopotamus> worse :) browser doesn't have on-disk cache at all
May 04 04:52:47 <luke-jr> ö
May 04 04:52:51 <radic> luke-jr: why should the amount of flashe writes keept low?
May 04 04:53:04 <luke-jr> radic: because flash has a limited amount of writes before it dies
May 04 04:53:45 <luke-jr> this is why I use internal flash as a rescue livecd :D
May 04 04:53:56 <luke-jr> and put my real OS on a removable/replacable card
May 04 04:54:02 <slonopotamus> everything has limited amout of writes before it dies
May 04 04:54:08 <radic> slonopotamus: look at about:config
May 04 04:54:48 <slonopotamus> radic, and?
May 04 04:55:24 <radic> slonopotamus: there you can enable the cach
May 04 04:55:26 <slonopotamus> you want to tell me about browser.cache.disk.enable ?
May 04 04:55:34 <radic> +e
May 04 04:55:42 <radic> slonopotamus: right
May 04 04:56:30 <slonopotamus> radic, well... set it to true and tell me what changed
May 04 04:57:02 <radic> I think a symlink to a cache-dir on my sd-card is a good idea
May 04 04:57:36 <radic> slonopotamus: the pages are loaded faster
May 04 04:57:57 <slonopotamus> radic, okay, and where are they stored?
May 04 04:58:26 <radic> i think on the internal flashe
May 04 04:59:20 <slonopotamus> do not guess, check it :)
May 04 05:02:10 <slonopotamus> correct answer is: microb doesn't store pages in disk cache at all :)
May 04 05:03:26 <tank-man> its cached on the server on the other side of the internet :)
May 04 05:07:02 <RST38h> there is a big boss on the other side of the internet
May 04 05:07:07 <RST38h> you need to beat him to get out
May 04 05:07:47 <luke-jr> i c
May 04 05:21:14 <LiraNuna> what does the full screen button corresponds   to in a keyboard? F11?
May 04 05:21:52 <tank-man> f6
May 04 05:23:13 <LiraNuna> any reason behind it? (just curious)
May 04 05:23:52 * Stskeeps yawns
May 04 05:24:19 <Stskeeps> LiraNuna: probably easy implementation
May 04 06:16:46 <LiraNuna> how can I get 24h clock in N810W?
May 04 06:17:10 <zakkm> liranuna: give me a sec, let me check
May 04 06:18:00 <zakkm> LiraNuna: dont believe you can, just double checking
May 04 06:18:18 <LiraNuna> zakkm, are you serious?
May 04 06:18:54 <zakkm> is there a reason you would need?
May 04 06:19:15 <LiraNuna> I dislike the AM/PM system?
May 04 06:19:25 <zakkm> im no expert, but as far as i know you cant, and im looknig through now trying to find 24h
May 04 06:19:59 <luke-jr> I dislike the 24 hour system
May 04 06:20:11 <luke-jr> give me 16 hex-hour days -.-
May 04 06:20:30 <LiraNuna> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303 says fix
May 04 06:21:34 <zakkm> Quoting the UI designer: "In Fremantle there will be a GCONF value for the time
May 04 06:21:34 <zakkm> display setting that apps can read."
May 04 06:21:50 <zakkm> LiraNuna: that means the next version of maemo, in like summertime will support 24h
May 04 06:23:31 <LiraNuna> next version of maemo won't run on N8x0 though
May 04 06:25:22 <slonopotamus> LiraNuna, time to look at other distros for your tablet :)
May 04 06:25:23 <zakkm> exactly, so its up to mer, but according to that, right now there is no way to have 12h.
May 04 06:25:29 <zakkm> ahh 24h
May 04 06:25:39 <zakkm> even though it says fix, it doesnt necessary mean fixed
May 04 06:26:02 <LiraNuna> slonopotamus, I know, mer doesn't look too good atm (I know it's alpha)
May 04 06:26:03 <zakkm> slonopotamus: how goes gentoo?
May 04 06:26:32 <zakkm> LiraNuna: its not so much that mer doesnt look too good, its the window manager/UI i would say
May 04 06:26:43 <qwerty12_N800> Doesn't that bug say that you can change the locale (or rebuild posix-locales) too?
May 04 06:26:49 <LiraNuna> I'm not a fan of hildon at all, tbh
May 04 06:27:15 <zakkm> qwerty12_N800: i must of missed that, but even if you did, locale doesnt control 24h/12h does it?
May 04 06:27:24 <LiraNuna> N810 has so much potential, and most of the HW is closed source..
May 04 06:27:36 <zakkm> qwerty12_N800: that would also mean that the clock applet and stuff would have to show in 24h too
May 04 06:27:47 <zakkm> qwerty12_N800: locale might only make "date" show 24h
May 04 06:27:53 <qwerty12_N800> zakkm: it does. LC_Time var. and all
May 04 06:28:18 <zakkm> qwerty12_N800: let me read it again, seems alot of people commented
May 04 06:28:21 <slonopotamus> zakkm, perfect :) i got on-screen keyboard :)
May 04 06:28:30 <qwerty12_N800> large statusbar  clock has an option for 12hr mode, independent of locale
May 04 06:28:35 <zakkm> slonopotamus: how nice? :D
May 04 06:28:40 <radic> qwerty12_N800: is for os2008 a replacement for the volumecontrole available?
May 04 06:28:59 <zakkm> whats wrong with volume control?
May 04 06:29:00 <slonopotamus> zakkm, a little quirky, but definitely usable
May 04 06:29:05 <qwerty12_N800> radic: advanced-backlight?
May 04 06:29:08 <zakkm> is the tablet running alsa?
May 04 06:29:12 <zakkm> or oss?
May 04 06:29:19 <slonopotamus> alsa
May 04 06:29:24 <slonopotamus> forget oss
May 04 06:29:28 <slonopotamus> it's history :)
May 04 06:29:29 <zakkm> there could be alsamixer then , if you want more volume controls
May 04 06:29:41 <zakkm> like more specifics
May 04 06:30:07 <zakkm> havent used my tablet in like days before like 10min ago ;p
May 04 06:30:15 <zakkm> slonopotamus: what WM/DE you got setup?
May 04 06:30:17 <radic> qwerty12_N800: with that i couldn't control the recording volume
May 04 06:30:32 <zakkm> radic: you see if alsamixer is on the tablet?
May 04 06:30:35 <zakkm> run from terminal
May 04 06:30:37 <slonopotamus> zakkm, gnome for me, luke-jr installed kde-4.2 on his n810
May 04 06:30:46 <LiraNuna> do you think Nokia will deliver OpenGL ES drivers for N8x0 ?
May 04 06:30:51 <zakkm> never :P
May 04 06:30:56 <LiraNuna> as in, with Maemo 5.0 ?
May 04 06:31:11 <zakkm> maemo 5 is different hardware
May 04 06:31:17 <zakkm> that will have opengl drivers
May 04 06:31:28 <zakkm> but the n8x0 / nonmaemo 5 . .wont i think
May 04 06:31:29 <LiraNuna> no schedule released, eh?
May 04 06:31:36 <zakkm> summer i think?
May 04 06:31:39 <zakkm> around
May 04 06:31:41 <locutus> why did Nokia never do GL drivers for the 810 anyway?
May 04 06:31:55 <Stskeeps> LiraNuna: quim's talking to TI this month about mbx drivers
May 04 06:31:55 <LiraNuna> locutus, "licensing issues" as far as I read
May 04 06:32:05 <locutus> LiraNuna: meh
May 04 06:32:07 <zakkm> slonopotamus: did gnome run okay, do you think kde4 did? that would seem so slow
May 04 06:32:08 <LiraNuna> Stskeeps, "talking" in what way?
May 04 06:32:11 <LiraNuna> can we make "donations"
May 04 06:32:22 <zakkm> there was a forum post on that
May 04 06:32:31 <zakkm> whats it going to take to get opengl drivers
May 04 06:32:40 <slonopotamus> zakkm, gnome speed is comparable to hildon. a little bit slower, but i didn't perform any optimizations yet.
May 04 06:32:41 <LiraNuna> bribe
May 04 06:32:48 <Stskeeps> LiraNuna: as in they're still trying to get drivers for n8x0
May 04 06:32:53 * slonopotamus needs to record some videos
May 04 06:33:13 <zakkm> slonopotamus: seems weird on a tablet though, too small and such
May 04 06:33:15 <LiraNuna> Stskeeps, can we donate? (read as bribe)
May 04 06:33:25 <konttori_> Stskeeps, that would be great
May 04 06:33:35 <zakkm> Stskeeps: wouldnt that give a huge speed boost in a way, bring for way more things ?
May 04 06:33:44 <luke-jr> zakkm: KDE 4 isn't running ok
May 04 06:33:45 <slonopotamus> zakkm, better than all that 'hildonization' crap
May 04 06:33:46 <konttori_> I've seen the opengl perf on the n810 and it's actually pretty cool
May 04 06:33:55 <konttori_> only thing is tearing which won't disappear
May 04 06:34:03 <zakkm> i want to run fvwm-crystal on tablet i think :D
May 04 06:34:17 <LiraNuna> iPhone uses the same chipset
May 04 06:34:23 <StsN800> zakkm, we'll see
May 04 06:34:26 <LiraNuna> it got a PowerVR MBX (lite)
May 04 06:34:46 <StsN800> LiraNuna, http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28548&highlight=acceleration
May 04 06:34:47 <LiraNuna> the iphone version 1.1.3 has AppleMBX.kext but that got removed on 2.0
May 04 06:34:50 <zakkm> theorically speaking though
May 04 06:34:53 <slonopotamus> zakkm, i don't have manpower to hildonize each & every app i want to use
May 04 06:35:19 <zakkm> X running off 3d support drivers , rather than what i guess is very software rendered
May 04 06:35:34 <LiraNuna> there's also 2D accel, no?
May 04 06:35:35 <StsN800> slonopotamus, we are working on autohildonization too though
May 04 06:35:54 <zakkm> yeah i was about to say
May 04 06:36:05 <zakkm> 4 years of maemo? and no autohildonizations by now?
May 04 06:36:16 <LiraNuna> what's "Freemantle"
May 04 06:36:28 <zakkm> maemo 5
May 04 06:36:31 <zakkm> is called fremantle
May 04 06:36:33 * luke-jr is working on anti-hildonization? ;)
May 04 06:36:33 <tank-man> freeeee
May 04 06:36:35 <StsN800> zakkm, maemo had other focus
May 04 06:36:41 <slonopotamus> StsN800, when you show me hildon running on stock gtk, i'll install ubuntu instead of gentoo on all my machines :)
May 04 06:36:46 <LiraNuna> zakkm, thanks
May 04 06:36:58 <slonopotamus> i mean running correctly
May 04 06:37:00 <StsN800> slonopotamus, see ubuntu mobile
May 04 06:37:19 <zakkm> theres hildon-desktop x86 and such?
May 04 06:37:24 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: traitor! :<
May 04 06:37:30 <zakkm> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/x11/hildon-desktop
May 04 06:37:36 <StsN800> their mid is hildon on top of stock gtk
May 04 06:37:46 <zakkm> yoo guys
May 04 06:37:51 <StsN800> time to install ubuntu, slonopotamus.
May 04 06:37:57 <zakkm> i got a SD adapter stuck in the removable sd slot
May 04 06:38:02 <zakkm> and i cant take it out :(
May 04 06:38:12 <StsN800> tweezer
May 04 06:38:22 <zakkm> theres no secret way?
May 04 06:38:38 <StsN800> and take out battery
May 04 06:38:47 <luke-jr> I want Hildon-like panel in Qt4 :x
May 04 06:38:50 * slonopotamus looks at his tablet, compares it to http://www.ubuntu.com/files/u1/html-small.jpg and doesn't see any similar parts
May 04 06:38:54 <zakkm> take out battery? what would that do
May 04 06:39:15 <zakkm> any similar parts? joking right? :P
May 04 06:39:16 <StsN800> zakkm, avoid shorting stuff
May 04 06:39:47 <StsN800> slonopotamus, debian runs hildon on top of stock gtk too
May 04 06:40:16 <slonopotamus> right-click support?
May 04 06:40:36 <StsN800> maybe with gtkstylus. who knows
May 04 06:40:57 <radic_> Linux Nokia-N800-43-7 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Sat May 2 16:04:00 CEST 2009 armv6l unknown
May 04 06:41:20 <StsN800> still, time to install ubuntu.;)
May 04 06:41:27 <radic_> i thought it's omap2, not 1?!
May 04 06:42:03 <zakkm> no
May 04 06:42:13 <zakkm> its not omap1 .. the way you think
May 04 06:42:24 <LiraNuna> so we're stuck at 2.6.21?
May 04 06:42:25 <zakkm> radic: its like 2.6.21-omap .. build 1
May 04 06:42:38 <luke-jr> >_<
May 04 06:42:39 <zakkm> radic: not omap1 kernel
May 04 06:42:51 <luke-jr> LiraNuna: I want to get 2.6.30-omap1 working
May 04 06:42:52 <zakkm> i think :D
May 04 06:42:55 <zakkm> wow
May 04 06:42:56 <zakkm> its at 30?
May 04 06:43:04 <luke-jr> zakkm: it's not released yet ;p
May 04 06:43:08 <LiraNuna> luke-jr, what about closed source drivers?
May 04 06:43:17 <luke-jr> but 2.6.30 saw p54spi+omapfb+omap-alsa hit mainline
May 04 06:43:30 <LiraNuna> :O
May 04 06:43:34 <luke-jr> LiraNuna: closed source drivers are not legal in Linux kernel land, so non-existent here :p
May 04 06:43:44 <zakkm> slonopotamus: hows battery life, on gentoo tablet?
May 04 06:43:50 <LiraNuna> were still using them
May 04 06:43:54 <LiraNuna> sound, wifi are closed
May 04 06:43:57 <luke-jr> so in theory 2.6.30 mainline should handle wifi+display+sound
May 04 06:44:07 <Meiz_n810> LiraNuna not wifi
May 04 06:44:11 <luke-jr> at least
May 04 06:44:12 <LiraNuna> wifi got opened?
May 04 06:44:23 <Meiz_n810> there's an open driver too
May 04 06:44:28 <luke-jr> Meiz_n810: two
May 04 06:44:29 <Meiz_n810> i think
May 04 06:44:29 <radic_> luke-jr: can the kernelsources from kernel.org be compiled for omap1?
May 04 06:44:38 <LiraNuna> okay my bad
May 04 06:44:46 <zakkm> radic_: need a kernel diff
May 04 06:44:46 <luke-jr> radic_: omap is a branch, per definition
May 04 06:44:46 * LiraNuna is still a newbie in the community
May 04 06:44:51 <LiraNuna> got my N810W a week ago
May 04 06:44:54 <zakkm> sweet :D
May 04 06:44:56 <luke-jr> W?
May 04 06:44:59 <zakkm> how much, curious :)
May 04 06:44:59 <LiraNuna> WiMAX
May 04 06:45:08 <luke-jr> I thought those were stopped production O.o
May 04 06:45:19 <LiraNuna> yeah :D
May 04 06:45:40 <zakkm> cheap?
May 04 06:45:44 <LiraNuna> 470$
May 04 06:45:52 <LiraNuna> new in box sealed
May 04 06:46:03 <luke-jr> >_<
May 04 06:46:07 <luke-jr> why?
May 04 06:46:24 <LiraNuna> because SF is getting 2.5GHz WiMAX in ~6 months
May 04 06:46:26 <luke-jr> WiMAX is worth $270 to you?
May 04 06:46:37 <luke-jr> i c
May 04 06:46:39 <zakkm> whatt
May 04 06:46:45 <zakkm> n810 is worth $200?
May 04 06:46:48 <LiraNuna> yes
May 04 06:46:50 <LiraNuna> 210$
May 04 06:46:52 <LiraNuna> last time I checked
May 04 06:46:52 <luke-jr> zakkm: that's what i got mine for
May 04 06:46:55 <zakkm> damnn
May 04 06:47:01 <zakkm> i should sell my n800 and buy a n810
May 04 06:47:05 <slonopotamus> StsN800, please don't call a thing with 2.6mb patch "stock gtk".
May 04 06:47:10 <LiraNuna> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858618003&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Ultra+Mobile+PC-_-Nokia-_-58618003
May 04 06:47:35 <slonopotamus> and grepping http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gtk+2.0/gtk+2.0_2.16.1-0ubuntu2.diff.gz for "hildon" shows up many interesting results.
May 04 06:47:51 <zakkm> slonopotamus: hildon isnt just for the tablet.
May 04 06:48:03 <slonopotamus> damn, that's 10% of all gtk patched
May 04 06:48:22 <luke-jr> HAHAHA
May 04 06:48:44 <LiraNuna> anyone knows if we can get webkit+V8 working ?
May 04 06:48:44 <zakkm> can the tablet run ubuntu mid? :P
May 04 06:48:51 <slonopotamus> ++#ifdef MAEMO_CHANGES
May 04 06:48:53 <zakkm> LiraNuna: Use Tear browser.
May 04 06:48:54 <slonopotamus> perfect
May 04 06:48:54 <LiraNuna> V8 has an ARM6 port, it does javascript dynarec
May 04 06:49:00 <LiraNuna> zakkm, tear?
May 04 06:49:14 <zakkm> LiraNuna: webkit browser, designed just for tablet, by bundyo
May 04 06:49:26 <LiraNuna> what about JS? does it use V8?
May 04 06:49:30 <zakkm> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=281889#post281889
May 04 06:49:39 <zakkm> no idea, but in maemo, its the best your get
May 04 06:49:53 <LiraNuna> http://code.google.com/p/v8/
May 04 06:49:55 <zakkm> could use firefox mobile?
May 04 06:49:59 <LiraNuna> ARM :)
May 04 06:50:01 <zakkm> i know what v8 is
May 04 06:50:06 <zakkm> but im thinking towards tablet
May 04 06:50:15 <LiraNuna> teblet got ARM
May 04 06:50:19 <zakkm> v8 isnt that fast?
May 04 06:50:24 <zakkm> newest webkit beats it i believe
May 04 06:50:26 <LiraNuna> V8 is a dynamic recompiler
May 04 06:50:31 <LiraNuna> oh wow, really?
May 04 06:50:40 <LiraNuna> does it dynarec?
May 04 06:50:58 <luke-jr> zakkm: even on ARM?
May 04 06:51:07 <zakkm> im thinking x86
May 04 06:51:09 <LiraNuna> V8 does dynamic recompilation on ARM
May 04 06:51:36 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, what's so funny?
May 04 06:51:38 <luke-jr> I don't like x86 ;p
May 04 06:51:58 <zakkm> x86_64 .
May 04 06:52:11 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: nothing?
May 04 06:52:15 <zakkm> lol what tablet do you use? :P
May 04 06:52:18 <slonopotamus> <luke-jr> HAHAHA
May 04 06:52:19 <zakkm> ahh
May 04 06:52:20 <zakkm> desktop
May 04 06:52:20 <slonopotamus> :)
May 04 06:52:27 <luke-jr> [01:48:04] <slonopotamus> damn, that's 10% of all gtk patched
May 04 06:52:38 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, well... i had to protect gentoo :)
May 04 06:52:52 <zakkm> lol
May 04 06:52:58 <zakkm> slonopotamus: you try fvwm-crystal on it?
May 04 06:53:20 <slonopotamus> still, 2.6mb patch is insane. the whole app i'm currently developing @ work is less :)
May 04 06:53:24 <zakkm> if i had n810, gentoo would seem cool but i dont ;p
May 04 06:53:47 <slonopotamus> zakkm, wtf is fvwm-crystal?
May 04 06:53:54 <slonopotamus> googling
May 04 06:53:58 <LiraNuna> http://sideshowbarker.net/2009/04/02/webkit-arm-jit/ < okay, nvm
May 04 06:54:02 <zakkm> transparent fvwm desktop
May 04 06:54:11 <zakkm> window manager based on fvwm
May 04 06:54:28 <zakkm> http://www.fvwm-crystal.org/screenshots/wallpapers.jpg
May 04 06:54:38 <zakkm> much customizable
May 04 06:54:39 <slonopotamus> won't software transparency be slow?
May 04 06:54:48 <zakkm> its lighter than fluxbox
May 04 06:55:13 <zakkm> dont know about disk usage, cause it pulls in alot of stuff
May 04 06:55:19 <zakkm> but system resources its less
May 04 06:55:32 <zakkm> got my tablet wanting to put that on ;p
May 04 06:55:42 <luke-jr> We did measurements on a Nokia N810, and we gained 13% performance improvement. The memory consumption is increased by 3.3% which is a small trade-off for this performance improvement.
May 04 06:55:44 <luke-jr> FAIL
May 04 06:55:52 <luke-jr> memory is FAR more important IMOP
May 04 06:55:54 <luke-jr> IMO*
May 04 06:55:55 <slonopotamus> disk usage isn't a problem.
May 04 06:55:57 <zakkm> luke-jr: of what?
May 04 06:56:21 <zakkm> slonopotamus: it has mpd/xmms builtin, uses rox-filer for file browser
May 04 06:57:02 <thux> morning
May 04 06:57:23 <luke-jr> zakkm: WebKit ARM JIT
May 04 06:57:29 <zakkm> ;p
May 04 06:58:40 <LiraNuna> luke-jr, memory increased by 3%, this isn't a lot
May 04 06:58:55 <LiraNuna> assuming this is for code execution buffers
May 04 06:59:43 <luke-jr> LiraNuna: the N810 is already very short on memory
May 04 06:59:48 <luke-jr> LiraNuna: I'm seriously considering getting compcache (memory compression) on it
May 04 06:59:59 <LiraNuna> how short?
May 04 07:00:09 <LiraNuna> deblet with gnome used 77MB
May 04 07:00:21 <luke-jr> Gentoo with KDE 4.2 is pushing it
May 04 07:00:31 <luke-jr> if I run Marble, I'm pretty sure I go over
May 04 07:00:43 <zakkm> wow not bad
May 04 07:00:45 <zakkm> 77mb?
May 04 07:00:55 <LiraNuna> zakkm, that's what it reported
May 04 07:01:04 <qwerty12> luke-jr: compcache has been done and the tablet likes to restart with it runnning
May 04 07:01:09 <qwerty12> s/runnning/running/
May 04 07:01:10 <infobot> qwerty12 meant: luke-jr: compcache has been done and the tablet likes to restart with it running
May 04 07:01:17 <zakkm> compcache crashes it.
May 04 07:01:21 <luke-jr> qwerty12: oh, interesting
May 04 07:01:38 <LiraNuna> that was a special gnome with 'stripped down' environment
May 04 07:01:39 <zakkm> qwerty12: was that just maemo though, or was it tried in mer?
May 04 07:01:42 <luke-jr> I suspect latest kernel+compcache may help
May 04 07:01:53 <qwerty12> zakkm: doesn't matter, it's a kernel problem
May 04 07:01:55 <LiraNuna> but had totem, nm-applet, file-roller, gedit, evince...
May 04 07:02:24 <LiraNuna> I had to optimize the panels, since some of the applets such as trash-applet take 4.4MB for nothing
May 04 07:02:34 <LiraNuna> so I just replaced it with a launcher to trash:// :D
May 04 07:02:34 <luke-jr> XD
May 04 07:02:48 <LiraNuna> which now took a good 4k memory :)
May 04 07:03:12 <Stskeeps> so, uh
May 04 07:03:17 <Stskeeps> did you see one of those SmartQ 5 MIDs?
May 04 07:03:19 <zakkm> liranuna: kill gnome panel .. and run xfce-panel .. would use less :P
May 04 07:03:32 <LiraNuna> zakkm, 77MB was nice
May 04 07:03:34 <zakkm> or even lxde panel
May 04 07:03:41 <LiraNuna> my problem was wireless not working
May 04 07:03:55 <LiraNuna> nm-applet says no networks found
May 04 07:03:58 <zakkm> deblet is really old though ;
May 04 07:04:01 <LiraNuna> I know
May 04 07:04:06 <LiraNuna> still works
May 04 07:04:11 <zakkm> thought you just got your tablet?
May 04 07:04:20 <zakkm> you recently tried deblet?
May 04 07:04:23 <LiraNuna> a week ago
May 04 07:04:42 <zakkm> mer would of performed better :P
May 04 07:04:48 <zakkm> or ubuntu n8x0
May 04 07:04:55 <LiraNuna> zakkm, mer performed horribly slow compared to gnome
May 04 07:05:00 <zakkm> no
May 04 07:05:05 <zakkm> install mer, than apt-get gnome
May 04 07:05:05 <LiraNuna> gnome was nice and fast, almost as fast as hildon
May 04 07:05:19 <LiraNuna> zakkm, I believe Stskeeps said it's problematic
May 04 07:05:37 <zakkm> cant be worse than deblet, i would think
May 04 07:05:43 <Stskeeps> zakkm: some GTK conflicts
May 04 07:06:05 <zakkm> from patched gtk?
May 04 07:06:15 <zakkm> but then how does b-man do it?
May 04 07:06:23 <Stskeeps> he doesn't pin mer on top
May 04 07:06:35 <LiraNuna> I want to try ubuntu
May 04 07:06:43 <LiraNuna> but I don't have my miniSD adapter yet
May 04 07:07:07 <zakkm> n810's are cool :D
May 04 07:07:47 <Stskeeps> my fiancee tells me the exact same box as http://kamleung.com/goodies/q5/index.html is waiting for me at home
May 04 07:07:49 <zakkm> fremantle beta ui/theme looks so cool :D
May 04 07:08:18 <zakkm> nothing aganist your fiancee, but shes lying stskeeps :D
May 04 07:11:05 <LiraNuna> haha
May 04 07:12:30 <LiraNuna> hmm, unable to install libidn11 - incompatible application package
May 04 07:15:56 <LiraNuna> does the N8x0 have HFPU or GCC's vFPU?
May 04 07:16:54 <slonopotamus> LiraNuna, http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0/cflags
May 04 07:17:19 <LiraNuna> VFP \o/
May 04 07:17:36 <LiraNuna> I'm used to weak ARMs
May 04 07:17:46 <LiraNuna> ARM7TDMI, ARM9v5STE
May 04 07:18:41 <LiraNuna> "However, there are rumours that some programs break with -Os" only if you don't use volatile in the right way
May 04 07:19:20 <qwerty12> slonopotamus: march can also be set to arm1136jf-s and I also tend to use -mfloat-abi=softfp too
May 04 07:20:24 <LiraNuna> soft?
May 04 07:20:37 <LiraNuna> if you use softfp, have -ffast-math as well
May 04 07:22:55 <luke-jr> LiraNuna: softfp is an ABI, not actual software ;)
May 04 07:24:29 <LiraNuna> sorry, I'm used to lower-level ARM development
May 04 07:26:16 <LiraNuna> like manipulating the ARM's MPU for dynarec emulation of lower level ARMs
May 04 07:26:18 <LiraNuna> funtimes
May 04 07:33:30 <wazd> Hello maemo
May 04 07:37:35 <slonopotamus> qwerty12, -mfloat-abi=softfp doesn't have any visible effect
May 04 07:38:37 <slonopotamus> qwerty12, march can, but will it change anything actually?
May 04 07:39:19 <qwerty12> If you're only targeting the N8x0, I can't see it hurting anything
May 04 07:45:14 <LiraNuna> holy shi- Tear is so friggin fast
May 04 07:45:21 <LiraNuna> only thing stopping it is the LCD rendering
May 04 07:45:34 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 04 07:47:07 <LiraNuna> now how do I get adblock for it? :D
May 04 07:48:45 <LiraNuna> holy shi- it also supports flash
May 04 07:49:14 <LiraNuna> where's the dude[s] that created this and how can I donate him[them]
May 04 07:50:57 <Stskeeps> Bundyo
May 04 07:53:42 <zakkm> LiraNuna: hosts file would be better than adblock , performance wise
May 04 07:54:02 <LiraNuna> hmm
May 04 07:54:33 <LiraNuna> zakkm, thanks, I didn't thought of that
May 04 07:57:37 <LiraNuna> I need to mesh the touchscreen for flash to work, hehe
May 04 07:58:29 <zakkm> LiraNuna: i suggest adding qole's repository, so you can use application manager to update tear + libwebkit
May 04 07:58:50 <zakkm> and get notified of updates
May 04 07:58:53 <LiraNuna> it's not in extras-devel?
May 04 07:59:02 <zakkm> no
May 04 07:59:09 <zakkm> not that i know of?
May 04 07:59:11 <zakkm> is it?
May 04 07:59:48 <LiraNuna> what's the repo link?
May 04 08:00:06 <zakkm> LiraNuna: goto http://qole.maemobox.org/
May 04 08:00:09 <zakkm> it will tell you
May 04 08:00:16 <LiraNuna> ty
May 04 08:03:20 <zakkm> LiraNuna: going to bed, :D have class in just over 5 hours, still in highschool
May 04 08:03:29 <zakkm> have fun with Tear and maemo learning :)
May 04 08:03:30 <LiraNuna> thanks for your help
May 04 08:04:33 * Meiz_n810 wonders what the hell is wrong with us (Finnish people) O_O http://www.google.com/trends?q=goatse&ctab=1986094119&geo=all&date=ytd
May 04 08:05:07 <LiraNuna> you obviously love it
May 04 08:05:24 <glass> Meiz_n810: well, a lot. + goatse is a bucket of fun
May 04 08:05:29 <LiraNuna> don't forget, google is your best friend - if you ask it for goat sex, it'll ask "are the goats on fire?"
May 04 08:06:02 <locutus> LiraNuna: it offers me no such thing :-(
May 04 08:06:12 <qwerty12> Meiz_n810: goatse is jokes
May 04 08:07:42 <jeremiah_> Meiz_n810: I won't click on anything with 'goatse' in the link. Scary.
May 04 08:07:51 <Stskeeps> morning jeremiah_ :)
May 04 08:08:51 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Hello Sir Stskeeps!
May 04 08:09:00 <jeremiah_> How is life in beautiful Denmark?
May 04 08:09:33 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: i received http://kamleung.com/goodies/q5/index.html  , one of these boxes today :)
May 04 08:09:55 <jeremiah_> Hot form the oven?! :)
May 04 08:10:11 <Stskeeps> from i think they meant :)
May 04 08:10:43 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Does it run Mer?
May 04 08:10:52 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: it will.. :)
May 04 08:10:55 <jeremiah_> heh
May 04 08:11:05 <Stskeeps> it's basically a slightly faster n800
May 04 08:11:11 <jeremiah_> Keep on rockin' Stskeeps!
May 04 08:11:39 <Stskeeps> and the company is donating two of those to the project and 10 developer rebates, they already run ubuntu so
May 04 08:12:02 <jeremiah_> Hmmm - Are all the developer rebates spoken for? =)
May 04 08:12:16 <Stskeeps> not yet, there's no formal process set up
May 04 08:12:34 <jeremiah_> Are they really the size of a business card?
May 04 08:12:39 <jeremiah_> That is tiny.
May 04 08:12:41 <Stskeeps> nah, bigger
May 04 08:12:48 <jjo> even the full price doesn't seem too bad
May 04 08:13:26 <Stskeeps> i would get a nokia for the quality obviously
May 04 08:13:36 <Stskeeps> but if i need some random tablet around the house, i'd go for a cheap one
May 04 08:13:39 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Of course. And for the community. :P
May 04 08:14:21 <Stskeeps> and for people liking to experiment it has a capacitive screen
May 04 08:14:41 <Stskeeps> and runs ubuntu already
May 04 08:15:11 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Interesting that they chose Ubuntu, I wonder why.
May 04 08:15:23 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: no need for a sw department?
May 04 08:15:32 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: And what are the practical benefits of a capacative screen?
May 04 08:15:38 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: multitouch for instance afai
May 04 08:15:44 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: I mean Ubuntu versus debian.
May 04 08:15:47 <Stskeeps> ah
May 04 08:15:53 <Stskeeps> more user friendly? :P
May 04 08:16:01 <Stskeeps> but yeah, good question
May 04 08:16:03 <jeremiah_> Yeah, maybe that is what they thought.
May 04 08:16:16 <jeremiah_> Maybe they think Ubuntu is more popular.
May 04 08:17:04 <Stskeeps> or better chinese support
May 04 08:17:13 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: It would be really interesting to find out - if you ever speak to them, ask them why Ubuntu and not Debian. Though I am sure that might not be the first thing on your list. :)
May 04 08:17:21 <LiraNuna> Stskeeps, how big are they?
May 04 08:17:25 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Debian is known for its excellent internationalization.
May 04 08:17:46 <jeremiah_> In fact, debian is available in Mongolian and other languages.
May 04 08:17:59 <Stskeeps> LiraNuna: http://www.slashgear.com/smartq-5-mid-specs-photos-emerge-just-132-2639014/
May 04 08:18:09 <jeremiah_> So I doubt they chose Ubuntu over Debian because of Chinese language support, but maybe.
May 04 08:19:16 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Does it do any type of telephony?
May 04 08:19:22 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: not a phone, it's a tablet
May 04 08:19:34 <Stskeeps> it's not a competitor for rx-51 for sure
May 04 08:19:37 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: And does it have proprietary blobs?
May 04 08:19:54 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: only video codecs as far as i can tell, and libertas wifi firmware
May 04 08:20:05 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Wow - pretty open.
May 04 08:20:06 <Stskeeps> but nothing that is required to use it
May 04 08:20:10 <jeremiah_> cool.
May 04 08:20:20 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: they'll publish HW design and source code soon they said
May 04 08:20:25 <jeremiah_> Really!?
May 04 08:20:28 <jeremiah_> Amazing.
May 04 08:20:49 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: That will generate some interest if they follow through.
May 04 08:20:58 <Stskeeps> they just might
May 04 08:21:25 <Stskeeps> btw, he commented something i didn't hear of before: I have just noticed companies like Marvell choose maemo as
May 04 08:21:28 <Stskeeps> their MID/Netbook reference design.
May 04 08:21:33 <Stskeeps> is this anything heard about?
May 04 08:21:37 <LiraNuna> how different is this one from the N800?
May 04 08:21:52 <Stskeeps> LiraNuna: no dpad, no buttons than the ones above, bigger battery
May 04 08:21:56 <Stskeeps> more internal flash
May 04 08:21:58 <Stskeeps> SD slot
May 04 08:22:14 <Stskeeps> capacitive screen
May 04 08:22:45 <LiraNuna> what about chipsets?
May 04 08:22:56 <Stskeeps> samsung armv5 it seems
May 04 08:22:58 <Stskeeps> sec
May 04 08:23:18 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Do you mean have I heard anything about companies using Maemo as their reference design? No - they keep me in the dark. :)
May 04 08:23:27 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: ah, if anyone heard
May 04 08:23:38 <Stskeeps> i haven't been able to find anything about it, so it might be an internal chinese thing :)
May 04 08:24:20 <Stskeeps> LiraNuna: http://www.slashgear.com/smartq-5-mid-gets-reviewed-let-down-by-poor-cpu-0640122/ has video
May 04 08:25:21 <LiraNuna> "but there’s no Flash or YouTube support" we can fix it right? :)
May 04 08:25:37 <Stskeeps> now that's a rather murky area and i don't want to give an answer to that :P
May 04 08:25:42 <Stskeeps> gnash should work? :P
May 04 08:25:46 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: That will be a PITA.
May 04 08:26:19 <LiraNuna> how's Nxx0 flash player different?
May 04 08:26:25 <LiraNuna> it's a browser plugin, right?
May 04 08:26:34 <Stskeeps> yeah, and tied to maemo sortof :P
May 04 08:26:44 <Stskeeps> also, we can't legally copy that :>
May 04 08:26:46 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: Well, you are starting off with a different CPU.
May 04 08:27:16 <LiraNuna> jeremiah_, it's still ARM, we can patch the binary ;P
May 04 08:27:34 <LiraNuna> I know it's 'illegal' but are they REALLY gonna chase us?
May 04 08:27:51 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: I doubt they well chase you, they might even like it. :)
May 04 08:28:04 <Stskeeps> LiraNuna: adobe would probably.
May 04 08:28:05 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: But how much official support will you get?
May 04 08:28:32 <jeremiah_> I mean, you can hack your machine all you want, but you won't be able to distribute.
May 04 08:28:36 <jeremiah_> So what's the point?
May 04 08:28:38 <LiraNuna> how much official support does the N series get? none
May 04 08:28:55 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: Nokia supports the maemo community in a huge way.
May 04 08:29:05 <jeremiah_> They get it.
May 04 08:29:17 <jeremiah_> Sure you may feel it could be more open
May 04 08:29:33 <jeremiah_> but they are bound by agreements that already exist in the marketplace
May 04 08:29:38 <jeremiah_> That they cannot change
May 04 08:29:41 <LiraNuna> I'm new, so I don't really know
May 04 08:29:48 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: :)
May 04 08:29:56 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: No biggie - you raise important issues.
May 04 08:30:22 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: And I apologize if I sound critical, I don't mean to.
May 04 08:30:30 <lbt> LiraNuna: but they have stated that there will be no more 'official' releases of anything for the N8x0s
May 04 08:30:48 <lbt> (you only got a tablet a few days ago didn't you?)
May 04 08:30:58 <LiraNuna> so, that means flash support is deprecated
May 04 08:31:06 <jeremiah_> lbt: But you don't really expect to spend all that money supporting an EOL product do you?
May 04 08:31:12 <jeremiah_> No other company does that.
May 04 08:31:14 <LiraNuna> meaning we can do stuff with it and they shouldn't really move anything
May 04 08:31:31 <LiraNuna> lbt, last week
May 04 08:31:39 <lbt> jeremiah_ they still sell them ... I expect them to support products they sell
May 04 08:31:51 <jeremiah_> lbt: You have a point.
May 04 08:31:57 <lbt> and I expect them to be supported for a year after they stop selling them
May 04 08:32:16 <lbt> look at LiraNuna ... tablet less than a week old and it's "EOL"... tough
May 04 08:32:26 <jeremiah_> lbt: Yeah. Not good.
May 04 08:32:32 <lbt> so, tbh, it could be better
May 04 08:33:09 <lbt> I have an old Nokia phone, the new sync SW still supports it
May 04 08:33:10 <LiraNuna> lbt, I know the WiMAX edition is EOL
May 04 08:33:41 <LiraNuna> someone here said before that 2.6.30 kernel is possible
May 04 08:34:02 <lbt> LiraNuna: nevertheless... it's brand new and I think you're entitled to expect that bug fixes will be at least looked at for a reasonable duration
May 04 08:34:26 <LiraNuna> lbt, of course, but I don't really think Adobe will bother
May 04 08:34:26 <lbt> however a bug report against an N8x0 is met with "WONTFIX" ... eol
May 04 08:34:36 <LiraNuna> heh
May 04 08:34:56 <lbt> so my N800 has the internet phone app
May 04 08:35:05 <lbt> it makes a great SIP handset
May 04 08:35:21 <lbt> but there is no DTMF
May 04 08:35:27 <lbt> not worth filing a bug :(
May 04 08:35:42 <lbt> anyhow, it is what it is
May 04 08:35:59 <lbt> and whilst I think it's a poor show
May 04 08:36:13 <lbt> Nokia are doing other things which are a lot better :)
May 04 08:36:32 <lbt> there is support for Mer in many areas
May 04 08:37:06 <lbt> but it looks like you'll never get to use the internal gps in Mer
May 04 08:37:08 <jeremiah_> lbt: I think using Mer for backwards compatibility is a great idea
May 04 08:37:22 <jeremiah_> lbt: I puts the control in the hands of the community.
May 04 08:37:34 <LiraNuna> is the GPS chipset closed-source too?
May 04 08:37:35 <lbt> well... it also offloads legacy responsibility
May 04 08:37:50 <lbt> GPS->  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4380
May 04 08:38:13 <jeremiah_> lbt: Yes - but that is part of the deal and a realistic expectation.
May 04 08:38:30 <lbt> <cynical> so Nokia can EOL even sooner and say it's supported via Mer... apart from.....</cynical>
May 04 08:38:45 <jeremiah_> You may argue that it is happening too soon or without enough Nokia support, and you may be right, but it is, in principle, a good thing.
May 04 08:38:48 <LiraNuna> bleh
May 04 08:38:56 <jeremiah_> At least, so thinks I.
May 04 08:39:03 <lbt> what? Mer?
May 04 08:39:08 <LiraNuna> good thing I got this thing for free
May 04 08:39:16 <LiraNuna> that way I can get my wife to get another one :D
May 04 08:39:54 <lbt> what? Mer? <- jeremiah_
May 04 08:40:12 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: When the new one comes out, you will want to give your wife the old one. :)
May 04 08:40:16 <jeremiah_> lbt: Yeah.
May 04 08:40:18 <Stskeeps> some might argue that cutting off life support is a good way to get the community encouraged
May 04 08:40:28 <LiraNuna> jeremiah_, I meant, get my wife to agree to get the new one
May 04 08:40:31 <Stskeeps> rage is a good motivator sometime :)
May 04 08:40:37 <jeremiah_> LiraNuna: Heh.
May 04 08:40:46 <lbt> hehe ... but futile rage .... ?
May 04 08:40:51 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: You have a way with words. :)
May 04 08:40:57 * lbt has an N800 and a BT gps
May 04 08:41:09 <LiraNuna> the shop that sold the N810W to me delivered the product after 34 days (!) and I already claimed fraud
May 04 08:41:11 <Stskeeps> lbt: oh, it's not futile if there's someone ready to facilitate the rage :P
May 04 08:41:25 * lbt hopes maemo-mapper can ignore the liblocate stuff and use gpsd
May 04 08:42:25 <lbt> Stskeeps: some things we can't reasonably expect to fix ... 3D accel, n810 gps...
May 04 08:42:34 <lbt> I doubt Mer will ever support them
May 04 08:42:50 <lbt> but we'll see if Nokia continue to open up the HW
May 04 08:42:58 <lbt> it's a journey for them
May 04 08:43:13 <LiraNuna> hmm, Tear doesn't seem to pass acid3 test
May 04 08:43:22 <LiraNuna> I get 13/100
May 04 08:44:27 <Stskeeps> lbt: obviously, but you didn't see qgil coming in to talk about it? (he's taking a talk with TI about it this month), and http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=283003&highlight=acceleration#post283003
May 04 08:44:31 <Stskeeps> (3d)
May 04 08:44:34 <Stskeeps> gps we'll have to figure out somehow
May 04 08:45:04 <lbt> oh yes
May 04 08:45:31 <lbt> I meant *we* as in not-Nokia
May 04 08:46:52 <lbt> so we can rage all we like .... but it's not enough.... whereas being pissed off at the lack of fingerscrolling in Qt.... I can do something about that <grin>
May 04 08:47:22 <lbt> I'd *really* like to get that into Qt
May 04 08:47:31 <lbt> to demonstrate community feedback
May 04 08:47:50 <lbt> something small, but very 'pointable at'
May 04 08:51:29 <Stskeeps> *nod*
May 04 08:51:39 <Stskeeps> fingerscrolling, pannable area?
May 04 08:51:49 <lbt> yes...
May 04 08:51:56 * lbt hates the word kinetic
May 04 08:52:02 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 04 08:52:17 * lbt thinks that implies momentum and continued motion/slowing down
May 04 09:06:22 <timeless_mbp> LiraNuna: you understand that Flash Player for 770/n800/n810 is licensed by Nokia from Adobe, right?
May 04 09:06:34 <timeless_mbp> it's based on the real flash player sources
May 04 09:06:41 <LiraNuna> timeless_mbp, oh wow
May 04 09:06:46 <LiraNuna> so we can't get a newer version?
May 04 09:07:45 <Stskeeps> morning timeless_mbp
May 04 09:08:00 <LiraNuna> it's still stuck on 9.0 r22
May 04 09:08:27 <timeless_mbp> jeremiah_: btw you're unfair, IBM, Sun and Microsoft all support EOLd products (if you *PAY* for a service contract)
May 04 09:08:36 <timeless_mbp> um, you shouldn't have r22
May 04 09:08:49 <timeless_mbp> you probably have the buggy misbranded 49 or whatever
May 04 09:08:54 <timeless_mbp> and there's an update to fix that
May 04 09:09:04 <timeless_mbp> you can either find the official way to get the update
May 04 09:09:07 <LiraNuna> I got the wimax
May 04 09:09:15 <timeless_mbp> it doesn't matter
May 04 09:09:34 <LiraNuna> <- tablet life of 6 days
May 04 09:09:38 <timeless_mbp> sorry it's misbranded 48, not 49
May 04 09:09:39 <lcukx41> o/' mornin
May 04 09:09:44 <timeless_mbp> http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/flash-player-r48-0.1.deb
May 04 09:09:52 <timeless_mbp> note that i haven't tried it on rx48
May 04 09:09:55 <timeless_mbp> but it should work
May 04 09:10:08 <jeremiah_> timeless_mbp: You got me! :)
May 04 09:10:10 <timeless_mbp> you really should find the correct way to update to the final released version of the system stack
May 04 09:10:52 <LiraNuna> timeless, thank you, works
May 04 09:11:01 <timeless_mbp> go to control panel, what does about[product] say?
May 04 09:11:18 <timeless_mbp> LiraNuna: anyway, youtube and friends should stop bothering you about flash for a while
May 04 09:11:24 <LiraNuna> 5.2008.43-7
May 04 09:11:29 * timeless_mbp ponders
May 04 09:11:36 <timeless_mbp> anyone know what the last version is? :)
May 04 09:11:39 <Stskeeps> that
May 04 09:11:39 <Stskeeps> :P
May 04 09:11:49 <LiraNuna> timeless_mbp, I had flash, just r22
May 04 09:11:50 <timeless_mbp> LiraNuna: what does about:plugins say now? :)
May 04 09:12:04 <LiraNuna> r48
May 04 09:12:08 <LiraNuna> <LiraNuna> timeless, thank you, works
May 04 09:12:32 <timeless_mbp> yeah, i figured, but i might as well see output :)
May 04 09:12:34 <LiraNuna> anyone knows anything about the WiMAX chip of the N810W?
May 04 09:12:49 <Stskeeps> pc2400m
May 04 09:12:51 <Stskeeps> or something
May 04 09:12:53 <timeless_mbp> i'm sure some of my coworkers do since they work on it :)
May 04 09:12:59 <timeless_mbp> or rather worked on it
May 04 09:13:02 <timeless_mbp> but :)
May 04 09:13:05 <LiraNuna> Stskeeps, not open, right?
May 04 09:13:11 <Stskeeps> LiraNuna: i compiled it the other day
May 04 09:13:13 <Stskeeps> so i guess it's open
May 04 09:13:17 <LiraNuna> :O
May 04 09:13:17 <qwerty12> LiraNuna: the source for it is in the kernel
May 04 09:13:22 <LiraNuna> awesome \:D/
May 04 09:13:37 <qwerty12> But the firmware is stored on the initfs which, as you'll have guessed, is not open :)
May 04 09:14:09 <LiraNuna> I think Intel (?) gives the firmware version
May 04 09:14:14 <timeless_mbp> http://www.brainfall.com/quizzes/which-disney-princess-are-you/
May 04 09:14:27 <LiraNuna> http://www.linuxwimax.org/Download
May 04 09:14:35 <Stskeeps> possible
May 04 09:14:45 <LiraNuna> says i2400 but I don't know if it's this one
May 04 09:14:55 <Stskeeps> it's pc2400m so
May 04 09:15:02 <jeremiah_> timeless_mbp: Which Disney princess are you?
May 04 09:15:10 <Stskeeps> snowwhite is my bet
May 04 09:15:15 <LiraNuna> but the firmware is not bound to a kernel right?
May 04 09:15:17 <timeless_mbp> jeremiah_: i've only tried picking the top answer
May 04 09:15:18 <Stskeeps> correct
May 04 09:15:23 <timeless_mbp> i'm going to actually answer now
May 04 09:15:29 <LiraNuna> so no problem about that right?
May 04 09:15:39 * jeremiah_ Waiting on tenterhooks. . .
May 04 09:16:27 <thux> tenterhooks where is my dictionary
May 04 09:17:12 <timeless_mbp> Jasmine :)
May 04 09:17:45 <jeremiah_> timeless_mbp: I would be shocked if only I knew who Jasmine was. :-/
May 04 09:17:55 <jeremiah_> I guess I will have to take the quiz.
May 04 09:17:58 <timeless_mbp> jeremiah_: um, crawl out from under your carpet
May 04 09:18:06 <timeless_mbp> come along for a magic carpet ride
May 04 09:18:16 <lcukx41> lol timeless how come theres no disney princesses who spend friday nights drinking beer and coding
May 04 09:18:21 <timeless_mbp> actually... come in out of the desert
May 04 09:18:31 <timeless_mbp> lcukx41: not my problem, i chose read a book
May 04 09:18:39 * timeless_mbp doesn't drink
May 04 09:18:49 <lcukx41> i am belle - and i dunno who she is lol
May 04 09:18:55 <Stskeeps> beauty and the beast?
May 04 09:19:00 <timeless_mbp> lcukx41: gah
May 04 09:19:04 <timeless_mbp> ++Stskeeps
May 04 09:19:11 <Stskeeps> (.. i spent too much time in HS with girls who loved disney songs..)
May 04 09:19:33 <timeless_mbp> actually i'm not sure if i ever saw the disney version of that start to finish
May 04 09:19:37 <timeless_mbp> but i still know it!
May 04 09:19:40 <lcukx41> Stskeeps: dont lie, you have all the videos lol
May 04 09:19:49 <timeless_mbp> jeremiah_: did you figure out who jasmine is?
May 04 09:19:49 <LiraNuna> memorized!
May 04 09:20:13 <jeremiah_> timeless_mbp: Not yet, but I found out I am Pocahontas. \0/
May 04 09:20:23 <timeless_mbp> i hope you know who she is
May 04 09:20:34 <timeless_mbp> Jasmine is Aladdin's girlfriend
May 04 09:20:40 <lbt> Jasmine/Pocahontas
May 04 09:20:42 <jeremiah_> I do know Pocahontas - thank god. :)
May 04 09:20:56 <LiraNuna> Jasmine is from Aladin, no?
May 04 09:20:57 <timeless_mbp> but have you seen the movie?
May 04 09:21:02 <timeless_mbp> LiraNuna: yes
May 04 09:21:10 <jeremiah_> I don't want to be ostracized by everyone here for not knowing about Pocahontas.
May 04 09:21:17 <timeless_mbp> (in the case of Aladdin, i believe there are 3)
May 04 09:21:34 <lcukx41> jeremiah_: there are much worse things in the world
May 04 09:21:35 <LiraNuna> g'night all, thanks for being patient with me
May 04 09:21:36 <timeless_mbp> jeremiah_: truth be told, i'd only ostracize Americans for her
May 04 09:21:46 <LiraNuna> wonderful community
May 04 09:21:47 <timeless_mbp> the rest can rightfully claim a certain degree of ignorance
May 04 09:22:06 <jeremiah_> Pocahontas was a real person who played an important role in American history.
May 04 09:22:13 <timeless_mbp> right
May 04 09:22:19 <jeremiah_> So us Americans _ought_ to know about her.
May 04 09:22:23 <timeless_mbp> right
May 04 09:22:32 <jeremiah_> But this Jasmine person . . .
May 04 09:22:38 <jeremiah_> I have an excuse, right?
May 04 09:22:49 <timeless_mbp> for not knowing enough tales from the Arabian nights?
May 04 09:22:51 <timeless_mbp> not really
May 04 09:23:01 <jeremiah_> Bummer.
May 04 09:23:05 <lcukx41> did aladin let her rub his lamp?
May 04 09:23:17 <timeless_mbp> lcukx41: in movie 2 or 3 i'm pretty sure
May 04 09:23:27 <timeless_mbp> or was there a four?
May 04 09:23:44 <lcukx41> i dunno, who did they cast in the roll? sasha grey?
May 04 09:24:20 * jeremiah_ slinks off to Piratebay to find some Disney movies . . .
May 04 09:24:29 <timeless_mbp> heh
May 04 09:24:32 <qwerty12> lcukx41: what sort of Aladdin movies do you watch?
May 04 09:24:50 <lcukx41> i dont
May 04 09:24:59 <jeremiah_> uh oh - I am sensing a shift from childrens films to something more, um, adult.
May 04 09:25:08 <lcukx41> not at all lol
May 04 09:25:32 <timeless_mbp> ok, i was right,there were only 3
May 04 09:25:49 * RST38h moos
May 04 09:26:18 * Stskeeps ponders idly how the SmartQ slipped past customs
May 04 09:26:29 <RST38h> Are you talking erotics in Disney animated movies or what?
May 04 09:26:39 <Stskeeps> RST38h: welcome to the internet
May 04 09:26:40 <Stskeeps> :P
May 04 09:26:52 <qwerty12> Stskeeps: threats from the triad
May 04 09:27:40 <lcukx41> Stskeeps: it arrived with you?
May 04 09:27:44 <Stskeeps> lcukx41: yup.
May 04 09:27:49 <Stskeeps> or at least my gf claims so
May 04 09:28:00 <RST38h> FreeBSD 7.2 released. Coolness.
May 04 09:28:13 <lcukx41> nice
May 04 09:29:02 <lcukx41> is it omap3 or still omap2?
May 04 09:29:13 <Stskeeps> it's a samsung chipset
May 04 09:29:32 <Stskeeps> arm still though
May 04 09:29:38 <lcukx41> arm11 or more then?
May 04 09:29:46 <Stskeeps> arm11 yea
May 04 09:29:52 <Stskeeps> didn't see if it has vfp yet
May 04 09:29:54 <RST38h> Sts: Is your customs policy the same as .RU? Can't bring anything in, can't send anything out?
May 04 09:30:08 <Stskeeps> RST38h: well normally i get a nice VAT on top and such
May 04 09:30:30 <RST38h> Sts: how much is VAT?
May 04 09:30:43 <Stskeeps> RST38h: 25% + a silly customs fee
May 04 09:30:50 <RST38h> Oh
May 04 09:31:09 <lcukx41> Stskeeps: 25% of what tho
May 04 09:31:16 <Stskeeps> of the value.. :P
May 04 09:31:27 <aquatix> of the `$60' note on the box ;)
May 04 09:31:29 <lcukx41> but if its not for sale its priceless
May 04 09:31:39 <RST38h> Sts: I hope they do not include express service (FedEx,UPS,etc) costs into taxable amount like Russians do though =)
May 04 09:32:16 <lcukx41> lol aquatix thats sorta what im thinking, or the variation where you send an empty box marked up in millions of € :D
May 04 09:32:20 <RST38h> lcukx41: then they keep it for themselves until you come up with 25% of infinity =)
May 04 09:33:23 <aquatix> Stskeeps: i read at http://www.umpcfever.com/news/?postid=2225 that the SmartQ is a tad slow
May 04 09:33:41 <Stskeeps> sure, but imagine Mer on it?
May 04 09:33:47 <aquatix> hm :)
May 04 09:33:57 <aquatix> good point
May 04 09:34:04 <Stskeeps> and 1gb internal flash
May 04 09:34:14 <Stskeeps> (i actually have it suspected of being an 1gb internal mmc.)
May 04 09:34:45 <aquatix> well, knowing samsung it might be regular internal flash
May 04 09:34:55 <aquatix> but maybe speaking mmc/sd indeed
May 04 09:35:24 <Stskeeps> i'll see when i get it bootin'
May 04 09:35:29 <Stskeeps> i checked out their fw the other day
May 04 09:35:47 <aquatix> heh, it has blueman by default
May 04 09:36:01 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 04 09:36:07 <Stskeeps> that was actually what inspired me to try out blueman for tablets
May 04 09:36:08 <aquatix> software looks rather ok
May 04 09:36:16 <Stskeeps> it's LXDE afaik
May 04 09:36:19 <aquatix> yeah, blueman is damn nice
May 04 09:36:24 <aquatix> use it on my laptops too
May 04 09:36:37 <aquatix> or regular xfce maybe?
May 04 09:36:49 <aquatix> or maybe not
May 04 09:37:02 <Stskeeps> it's basically ubuntu/mojo hasty
May 04 09:37:06 <Stskeeps> (8.04)
May 04 09:38:04 <aquatix> wow 2000mAh battery
May 04 09:38:15 <aquatix> and about the same size screen as the n8x0 right?
May 04 09:38:27 <Stskeeps> think so
May 04 09:38:38 <Stskeeps> yeah.. and they claim it can drive a EDGE modem too (3g?)
May 04 09:38:39 <aquatix> 4.3" if i read well
May 04 09:38:47 <aquatix> edge is gprs++
May 04 09:38:50 <aquatix> 2.5G
May 04 09:38:57 <Stskeeps> i'm really looking forward to go home and play with it :p
May 04 09:39:01 <aquatix> :)
May 04 09:41:47 <lcukx41> im so impressed with the n810 battery now - and powersaving on the proper wifi is really cool
May 04 09:41:58 <Stskeeps> better than adhoc, eh? ;)
May 04 09:42:19 <aquatix> lcukx41: what did you change then?
May 04 09:42:53 <lcukx41> i finally got a router :)
May 04 09:43:24 <lcukx41> but before then i didnt even consider it - i thought it was fine before, now its super smart and i dont have to remember to dc
May 04 09:43:37 <lcukx41> yeah sts :)
May 04 09:43:42 <aquatix> :)
May 04 09:44:47 <GAN800> lcukx41, just so you know, I'm going to have to hit you at the Summit. :P
May 04 09:45:15 <lcukx41> no u arent, i cant defend myself
May 04 09:45:24 * lcukx41 waves his ET finger at you
May 04 09:45:44 <GAN800> Or maybe shut your other finger in a door. :P
May 04 09:46:15 <lcukx41> we need plenty of beer at the summit :)
May 04 09:46:55 * lcukx41 has to have evil nurses changing bandages later
May 04 09:47:11 <lcukx41> i used to look up to nurses, but they are sadists
May 04 09:48:15 * GAN800 looks at bergie's blank email in Modest. <_<
May 04 09:48:30 <bergie> GAN800: what email?
May 04 09:48:40 <GAN800> Sprint scheduling
May 04 09:48:55 * GAN800 tries hitting Modest with a stick to no effect.
May 04 09:49:01 <bergie> ah, Modest probably didn't like the GPG signature
May 04 09:50:10 <bergie> GAN800: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-community/read/fbd4d782387b11de9bb2094ed741c926c926/
May 04 09:54:54 <murrayc> lcukx41: Was that some new door handle button thing? Maybe I've just been lucky.
May 04 09:55:23 <GAN800> Modest doesn't like sending and receiving email as far as I can tell. ;)
May 04 09:55:59 <lcukx41> murrayc: i dunno, from what i have heard the doors that i got caught on are open by default and arent usually closed
May 04 09:56:06 <murrayc> lcukx41: Ah.
May 04 09:56:38 <murrayc> lcukx41: Life keeps offering new evidence that "The Design Of Everyday Things" has a point about doors being hard to open due to thoughtless designers.
May 04 09:57:07 <GAN800> bergie, who wants to re-triage Hirvinen's bugs? Alternatively: who do you want ME to reassign them to? ;)
May 04 09:57:18 <bergie> GAN800: we'll do that
May 04 09:58:01 <lcukx41> indeed murrayc, where i sit in my dayjob i get to overlook a bank, and they just added a new dimension to getting in
May 04 09:58:10 <lcukx41> you have to press a button to unlock the door and open it
May 04 09:58:31 <lcukx41> i watch people every day try to push and force and some give up without finding the butotn
May 04 09:58:50 <murrayc> lcukx41: That's customer lock-in.
May 04 09:58:54 <lcukx41> lockout
May 04 09:59:04 <lcukx41> from the inside you just pull
May 04 09:59:25 <qwerty12> lcukx41: at our nationwide branch here, we have to press a button to get out
May 04 10:00:03 <lcukx41> maybe it is the same then o_O
May 04 10:00:46 <lcukx41> i want startreks doors everywhere :D
May 04 10:01:10 <andrade> hi, anyone could help me to properly install qt on scratchbox? I got qmake: error while loading shared libraries: libgcc_s.so.1 when executing qmake -project
May 04 10:01:31 <andrade> ah... greetings from Brazil :)
May 04 10:02:48 <lcukx41> im just wondering whether i need to file a bugtracker report about the incident
May 04 10:05:14 <RST38h> lcuk: they filter the most stupid clients out this way
May 04 10:05:34 <RST38h> saves them a fortune on productivity
May 04 10:06:20 <lcukx41> booo
May 04 10:06:26 <lcukx41> or should i say mooo
May 04 10:07:41 <RST38h> HELO lcukx41
May 04 10:08:28 <thux> ehlo
May 04 10:11:22 <lcukx41> did anyone watch the finalle of heroes
May 04 10:11:36 <lcukx41> (series)
May 04 10:14:01 <GeneralAntilles> lol Heroes
May 04 10:14:26 * timeless_mbp starves
May 04 10:14:52 <lcukx41> GeneralAntilles: was good, what are you watching at the mo
May 04 10:15:29 <Stskeeps> lcukx41: i'm so behind after i sat down in an episode and thought it was so incredibly badly written :P
May 04 10:15:37 <Stskeeps> will catch up sometime :P
May 04 10:17:13 <lcukx41> lol Stskeeps it went through a period of crapola, but this series was much better
May 04 10:18:26 <GeneralAntilles> lcukx41, depressingly enough the last thing I watched (at the insistence of a friend, and it actually turned out to be really excellent--for a kid's show, anyway ;)) was Avatar.
May 04 10:18:41 <GeneralAntilles> Through to completion, I should say.
May 04 10:19:31 <lcukx41> havin the kids around i get to see the drivel thats on nowadays
May 04 10:19:44 <lcukx41> thankfully spongbob washes over you after a while
May 04 10:19:57 <Stskeeps> spongebob is awesome. :P
May 04 10:20:13 <lcukx41> yes but in small doses
May 04 10:20:21 <GeneralAntilles> lcukx41, there are a few gems every once and a while.
May 04 10:20:36 <lcukx41> of course, same as anywher
May 04 10:20:53 <GeneralAntilles> I think I had a better-than-usual selection of children's programming when I was young, though.
May 04 10:21:27 <lcukx41> that was about 1/2 hour ago wasnt it?
May 04 10:21:31 <GeneralAntilles> :P
May 04 10:21:34 <lcukx41> heh
May 04 10:21:48 <GeneralAntilles> Judging by the fact that I just finished a Nickelodeon show, maybe. ;)
May 04 10:21:51 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, ping?
May 04 10:24:06 <bergie> GeneralAntilles: I'm also looking for X-Fade :-)
May 04 10:24:16 <bergie> we need to discuss brainstorm deployment
May 04 10:24:56 <GeneralAntilles> bergie, poor bastard's probably still sleeping off the website deployment. :D
May 04 10:25:06 <bergie> :-)
May 04 10:27:56 <bergie> GeneralAntilles: I just hope he wakes up before the meeting tomorrow so we can still launch it
May 04 10:28:36 <GeneralAntilles> I wonder if the Nokia DNS people ever added t.m.o
May 04 10:36:13 <lcukx41> mornin mgedmin o/'  thanks for your comments
May 04 10:36:23 <mgedmin> hi, lcukx41
May 04 10:36:32 <mgedmin> from your nickname I assume you've got yourself a nice thinkpad?
May 04 10:37:33 <lcukx41> i got this at christmas, i just dont usually sit in bed
May 04 10:37:59 <GeneralAntilles> bergie, oh, right, X-Fade's on the town in Amsterdam with Quim and Kees today.
May 04 10:38:06 <bergie> aha, ok
May 04 10:38:18 <bergie> well, then we'll try to do the deployment tomorrow before the meeting
May 04 10:38:44 * GeneralAntilles gets out of bed.
May 04 10:43:30 <lcukx41> mgedmin: its the first laptop i can actually call a laptop, all others have been frankenmachines with dead batteries of knackered whatever bits, this one just works most of the time
May 04 10:44:03 <mgedmin> thinkpads are nice
May 04 10:44:16 <lcukx41> ubuntu on the whole works with it
May 04 10:44:33 <mgedmin> ubuntu is getting nicer and nicer (but still buggy)
May 04 10:45:02 <lcukx41> dont mind buggy, its the direction its going, for a desktop os its satisfactory
May 04 10:45:16 <mgedmin> most satisfactory
May 04 10:45:29 <lcukx41> cant use the touchscreen with it too well tho, its too routed in mousing paradigm to be comfortable
May 04 10:45:32 <lbt> how does maemo mapper talk to a BT gps ? anyone know?
May 04 10:45:55 <mgedmin> lbt: there's this maemo platform library for communicating with gpses, I believe
May 04 10:46:00 <lcukx41> lbt, it opens a socket doesnt it
May 04 10:46:37 <lbt> ugh, it uses the nokia lib to talk over BT to a 3rd party GPS?
May 04 10:46:47 <mgedmin> maybe
May 04 10:47:11 <Stskeeps> libgpsbt? :P
May 04 10:47:17 <mgedmin> I mean, there's this feature where you can choose "bluetooth" and leave the bt address empty and get it to talk to the n810's internal gps
May 04 10:47:20 * lbt gets the source
May 04 10:47:31 <Stskeeps> closed source afaik
May 04 10:47:31 <mgedmin> which makes me think it's using the library instead of opening an RFCOMM socket
May 04 10:47:36 <mgedmin> maemo mapper is GPL
May 04 10:47:41 <mgedmin> libgpsbt is not
May 04 10:47:48 <lbt> yep...
May 04 10:47:53 * lbt thinks of Mer
May 04 10:48:05 <lbt> and losing MM :(
May 04 10:48:11 <mgedmin> ah
May 04 10:48:12 <Stskeeps> lbt: we have maemo-mapper ported already
May 04 10:48:16 <Stskeeps> i disabled the GPS :P
May 04 10:48:23 <mgedmin> ouch
May 04 10:48:29 <lbt> yeah, great :{
May 04 10:48:30 <Stskeeps> (yes, i know)
May 04 10:48:32 <mgedmin> actually, not ouch
May 04 10:48:38 * lbt looks at gpsd
May 04 10:48:45 * lcukx41 got banned from google maps the other day :$
May 04 10:48:48 <mgedmin> I use maemo mapper more often as a map application, the n810's gps sucks
May 04 10:49:00 * lbt has an N800 and a good BT gps
May 04 10:49:11 * Stskeeps should start preparing cph meet presentation and such
May 04 10:49:13 <lbt> and open streetmap....
May 04 10:49:17 * lcukx41 navigates by the stars
May 04 10:49:18 <RST38h> it is ok once locked
May 04 10:49:36 <RST38h> lcuk: in your sparkling spaceship, ET? =)
May 04 10:49:37 <lbt> Stskeeps: me too - we need to agree a split
May 04 10:49:48 <lbt> that's why I wanted your likes/dislikes
May 04 10:49:53 <lcukx41> this finger IS like et
May 04 10:50:03 * lcukx41 finds the picture
May 04 10:51:08 <lbt> Stskeeps: can I move MM to Extras
May 04 10:51:29 * lbt goes to #mer
May 04 10:52:13 <lcukx41> http://liqbase.net/finger_macro.jpg  (warning shows wounded hand with stitches removed)
May 04 10:53:30 <Stskeeps> lbt: go ahead
May 04 11:06:15 <pupnik_> lcuk wins for hand damage
May 04 11:06:35 <pupnik_> mine's more artistic tho
May 04 11:07:19 <lcuk> yeah, you broke windows with yours tho, you should install linux
May 04 11:07:44 <robtaylor> lcuk: ouch!
May 04 11:08:10 <lcuk> indeed rob
May 04 11:08:28 <lcuk> you can try other swear words as well - i know i did
May 04 11:08:33 <robtaylor> hah
May 04 11:08:38 <robtaylor> lcuk: how did you manage that?
May 04 11:08:54 <lcuk> full rundown http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/229097
May 04 11:09:18 <lcuk> i had answered the same thing and same questions afterwards so thought i would put it in one place ;)
May 04 11:10:42 <pupnik_> your description is vague on the actual cause of glass breakage though
May 04 11:10:46 <pupnik_> at least i couldn't understand it
May 04 11:10:53 <lcuk> no glass breakage
May 04 11:10:59 <Stskeeps> just an evil automatic door
May 04 11:11:11 <pupnik_> OW
May 04 11:11:36 <Stskeeps> lcuk: at least in denmark it would be almost obligatory for the company to fix the issue, as it would be a work environment violation
May 04 11:11:36 <lcuk> my finger was inside the handle - my hand was trapped between the handle and the fixed pole in the centre of the doors (double doors)
May 04 11:12:59 <robtaylor> lcuk: impressively done ;)
May 04 11:23:38 * liri is sad
May 04 11:24:00 <Stskeeps> dead tablet?
May 04 11:24:01 <liri> my n810 is sitting like a brick on my drawer for a couple of months now
May 04 11:24:39 <Stskeeps> heh - i see my n8x0 as a multipurpose device
May 04 11:24:45 <Stskeeps> i can always find some kind of purpose for it :)
May 04 11:24:57 <liri> I recently upgraded all packages including the media player (forgot it's name) and it stopped playing files
May 04 11:25:02 <liri> Stskeeps: share with me.
May 04 11:25:19 <liri> Stskeeps: I tried using it on the go as well but it gets cumbersome
May 04 11:25:34 <Stskeeps> well, my LCD on my n8x0 is scrolling insanely. low power wireless server, with mer / debian on top
May 04 11:25:53 <liri> no easy PIM, GPS takes up to 3-4 minutes to get a lock/signal, browser isn't loading websites too fast
May 04 11:26:06 <Stskeeps> did you try Tear yet?
May 04 11:26:08 <liri> what do you mean scorlling insanely?
May 04 11:26:09 <Stskeeps> you owe yourself that
May 04 11:26:18 <Stskeeps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcm5TYGwTwU
May 04 11:26:38 <liri> I've been out of the community for months now cause I've been busy as well so I'm a bit off about the new stuff
May 04 11:26:52 <Stskeeps> GPS i can't help with beyond AGPS
May 04 11:26:54 <Stskeeps> PIM .. yeah
May 04 11:27:05 <liri> no solution yet for pim right?
May 04 11:27:27 <RST38h> not much new
May 04 11:27:31 <RST38h> don't worry
May 04 11:27:47 <RST38h> the new maemo.org website is up and the itt has been moved there
May 04 11:28:06 <Stskeeps> and everyone is exploding with orgasmic conspiracies, heh
May 04 11:28:18 <Stskeeps> at least the content is starting to be > the noise
May 04 11:28:20 <liri> heh
May 04 11:28:20 <RST38h> there is a Finnish company that released a semicommercial web browser for the tablet but it does not work wwell enough yet
May 04 11:28:28 <RST38h> their youtube app works fine though
May 04 11:28:29 <lcuk> i still think Stskeeps is writing a book reader
May 04 11:28:43 <woglinde> hi
May 04 11:28:51 <lcuk> hiya woglinde \o
May 04 11:28:59 <liri> Stskeeps: I don't get that video. that's just the screen going rotation all the time?
May 04 11:29:02 <woglinde> the PIM theme again *g*
May 04 11:29:09 <Stskeeps> liri: yes, and unstoppable :P
May 04 11:29:18 <Stskeeps> it's might hard to use it
May 04 11:29:33 <Stskeeps> +y
May 04 11:29:34 <liri> Stskeeps: lol, that's just fun
May 04 11:29:35 <woglinde> hm is there no qt pim stuff
May 04 11:29:40 <RST38h> liri: his Blizzard chip is somehow broken, that is all
May 04 11:29:52 <Stskeeps> rest of tablet is fine though
May 04 11:30:42 <liri> Stskeeps: what are your uses for it?
May 04 11:30:53 <lcuk> hack the x11 driver to adjust the y offset - you never know, your tablet might be the only one that tears when showing a static screen but is flawless when in motion ;)
May 04 11:31:08 <Stskeeps> liri: well i got a new n800 donated, which i use for developing mer and as my day to day device
May 04 11:31:13 <Stskeeps> the old one i have to start using in some way
May 04 11:31:16 <Stskeeps> ah.
May 04 11:31:17 <Stskeeps> now i know.
May 04 11:31:19 <Stskeeps> torrents.
May 04 11:31:46 <liri> mer is the new version call sign yes?
May 04 11:31:53 <Stskeeps> nah, fremantle is maemo 5.0
May 04 11:32:00 <Stskeeps> mer is the community backport / maemo reconstructed
May 04 11:32:03 <Stskeeps> wiki.maemo.org/Mer
May 04 11:32:11 * lcuk vanishes for pills
May 04 11:32:59 <liri> how is debian running on it? is it slow?
May 04 11:33:12 <Stskeeps> well, Mer is basically Maemo UI but based on top of ubuntu
May 04 11:33:25 <woglinde> bye lcuk
May 04 11:33:26 <Stskeeps> which works quite nicely
May 04 11:34:07 <liri> so it's essentially ubuntu
May 04 11:34:21 <Stskeeps> yeah, but more optimized towards mobile usage
May 04 11:34:31 <Stskeeps> it power saves in similar ways to maemo
May 04 11:34:34 <AStorm> Stskeeps, meh
May 04 11:34:40 <liri> what are the benefits of that upon the maemo os?
May 04 11:34:42 <AStorm> my bluetooth fails in Mer
May 04 11:34:48 <Stskeeps> AStorm: hmm
May 04 11:34:57 <Stskeeps> liri: easier to get any app you might want or libraries :)
May 04 11:34:58 <AStorm> it binds fine
May 04 11:35:03 <AStorm> but cannot connect to dial-up port
May 04 11:35:13 <AStorm> (can to the serial, can transfer files)
May 04 11:35:17 <AStorm> so it's some funky failure
May 04 11:35:20 <liri> Stskeeps: cause it uses ubuntu's repos?
May 04 11:35:23 <Stskeeps> liri: correct. :)
May 04 11:35:28 <AStorm> might be blueman suckage
May 04 11:35:38 <Stskeeps> AStorm: .xsession-errors might reveal some things
May 04 11:35:50 <AStorm> I'll check that later, thanks
May 04 11:35:52 <Stskeeps> liri: also we are working on making development a hell lot easier
May 04 11:36:00 <Stskeeps> no scratchbox, for instance
May 04 11:36:08 <AStorm> also, I need a new battery, this one is dead
May 04 11:36:21 <AStorm> at least Mer's charge counter works correct
May 04 11:36:54 <liri> Stskeeps: uhmm nice
May 04 11:37:05 <Stskeeps> liri: and no busybox, etc
May 04 11:37:25 <AStorm> Stskeeps, btw, I'll try direct rfcomm config - by hand
May 04 11:37:36 <Stskeeps> k
May 04 11:37:39 <Stskeeps> liri: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.12#Screenshots
May 04 11:37:40 <AStorm> did that before - if that works, the failure is due to blueman
May 04 11:37:55 <Stskeeps> or NetworkManager :P
May 04 11:38:11 <AStorm> yep
May 04 11:38:20 <AStorm> though i could add the connection in nm
May 04 11:38:37 <AStorm> (but the bt device didn't connect)
May 04 11:39:54 <liri> Stskeeps: it looks pretty slick, nice work
May 04 11:40:05 <liri> Stskeeps: I would guess that it isn't exactly 'production-ready' though?
May 04 11:40:08 <AStorm> ah btw
May 04 11:40:15 <AStorm> the blueman .desktop file is broken
May 04 11:40:25 <Stskeeps> liri: correct, 20% answered it was day to day usable
May 04 11:40:28 <AStorm> and Mer's "tray" is limited to 4 items
May 04 11:40:30 <Stskeeps> but we have a lot of things working still
May 04 11:40:46 <AStorm> need a way to resize it and a button to "show more items" like in Maemo
May 04 11:40:46 <Stskeeps> AStorm: make a huge .txt with the bugs and i'll gladly add them administratively :P
May 04 11:40:50 <Stskeeps> and yes
May 04 11:40:52 <AStorm> yeah
May 04 11:41:08 <liri> it's cool though
May 04 11:41:19 <Stskeeps> liri: but we have wifi power saving working, etc
May 04 11:41:22 <Stskeeps> so we're getting closer
May 04 11:41:35 <liri> this way you get a full blown linux distro with the comfortable mobile UI
May 04 11:41:39 <AStorm> and your pidgin version is not hildonized
May 04 11:41:47 <Stskeeps> AStorm: we have a pidgin version?
May 04 11:41:49 <AStorm> add the one from Maemo repos, which is
May 04 11:41:51 <AStorm> :)
May 04 11:41:54 <Stskeeps> must be the ubuntu one
May 04 11:41:56 <liri> heh
May 04 11:41:59 <AStorm> no, you don't. exactly
May 04 11:42:08 <Stskeeps> liri: also we target towards making normal apps act well in maemo ui too :P
May 04 11:42:31 <liri> that's a blessing
May 04 11:42:32 <AStorm> I also recommend switching off static dialogs in matchbox for now
May 04 11:42:44 <AStorm> (switch to free)
May 04 11:42:50 <liri> though I'd be sticking with maemo os until that happens, and who knows when is that :)
May 04 11:42:57 <Stskeeps> liri: *nod*
May 04 11:42:58 <AStorm> and disable super_modal
May 04 11:43:21 <liri> to be honest I thought alot about flash games in the tablet but I found out that they run insanely slow which is in contrary to what I thought at first
May 04 11:43:32 <AStorm> it's a workaround though - to work with that, need to extend the "task buttons" to show all the dialogs too
May 04 11:43:35 <liri> I figured that this happens because the cpu still can't handle all that math
May 04 11:44:19 <Stskeeps> AStorm: i agree with all your observations, but i need them in list form :)
May 04 11:44:20 <GAN800> liri, the Flash plugin is really badly put together.
May 04 11:44:30 <RST38h> AStorm: Want a riddle?
May 04 11:44:36 <AStorm> Stskeeps, later today - have to jump on labs
May 04 11:44:39 <liri> GAN800: you mean the flash plugin for the browser?
May 04 11:44:40 <AStorm> or rather, run
May 04 11:44:43 <ShadowJK_> LiraNuna, I have 24hour clock... maybe because I set country to Finland?
May 04 11:44:45 <GAN800> liri, yes.
May 04 11:44:47 <AStorm> bbl
May 04 11:44:51 <liri> GAN800: ahh
May 04 11:45:08 <GAN800> liri, Flash on the Linux is terrible, Flash on Linux ARM is worse.
May 04 11:45:17 <liri> GAN800: well there's no other alternative. I tried playing the flash file in the media player (that default one) which it plays it but it's even worse than on the browser
May 04 11:45:27 <liri> GAN800: heh, nice
May 04 11:45:29 * RST38h knows why Flash is slow on the tablets. It is NOT because of the math too
May 04 11:45:42 <RST38h> The reason is way funnier
May 04 11:46:00 <aquatix> oh?
May 04 11:46:06 <liri> how come then RST38h?
May 04 11:46:16 <RST38h> It performs busy loops on gettimeofday().
May 04 11:46:34 <aquatix> eh
May 04 11:46:41 <RST38h> The way to improve it is patch gettimeofday() to provide it with a "local" copy of the time
May 04 11:47:03 <RST38h> There is a patch available too, made for different purposes on RedHat.
May 04 11:47:09 <Stskeeps> hmm
May 04 11:47:13 <Stskeeps> RST38h: maybe that can be LD_PRELOADed
May 04 11:47:19 <RST38h> Yea, exactly
May 04 11:47:33 <RST38h> I will try locating the patch if one of you agrees to try it on NIT
May 04 11:47:47 <liri> RST38h: I'll do it happily
May 04 11:48:06 <RST38h> Ok, let me see if I can locate it
May 04 11:49:57 <RST38h> Here is an x86 specific patch: http://lwn.net/Articles/9266/
May 04 11:50:11 <RST38h> It uses TSC unfortunately, so will need modifications
May 04 11:50:58 <woglinde> lol
May 04 11:51:08 <Stskeeps> RST38h: gladly taking kernel patch for Mer kernels :P
May 04 11:51:12 <Stskeeps> (works for maemo too)
May 04 11:51:26 * RST38h would rather have this stuff in maemo though =(
May 04 11:51:47 <Stskeeps> yeah, our kernels work for maemo too :P RDNIS patch is -wonderful-
May 04 11:51:51 <RST38h> But let me see if there is an arch-agnostic patch available
May 04 11:52:33 <woglinde> rst the patch is for 2.4 kernels
May 04 11:53:03 <liri> my maemo kernel is running version 4.8
May 04 11:53:17 * liri flew 2 decades to the future to get it!
May 04 11:53:21 <RST38h> woglinde: as it uses TSC you will have to rewrite it anyway, so it does nto matter
May 04 11:55:25 <AFB|Work> no wonder I can' get on at work I'm on at home lol
May 04 11:55:38 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 04 11:57:13 <AFB|Work> If I want to file a feature request to make avatars bigger again on talk.mameo.org do I just file it like a bug?
May 04 11:57:23 <Stskeeps> yeah, think so
May 04 11:57:46 * RST38h files a bug to remove the avatars
May 04 11:57:58 <woglinde> rst *g*
May 04 11:59:33 * AFB|Work files a bug to delete RST38h's bug
May 04 11:59:57 <murrayc> andre__: Can you confirm https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4439 ? I am very suprised so I still wonder if it's just me.
May 04 12:00:25 <andre__> murrayc, Lucas already confirmed it
May 04 12:01:02 <murrayc> andre__: Yeah, but I still wonder.
May 04 12:01:11 <RST38h> FOUND IT
May 04 12:01:18 <RST38h> liri,Stskeeps,woglinde: https://www.redhatrenewals.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_MRG/1.0/html/Realtime_Tuning_Guide/sect-Realtime_Tuning_Guide-General_System_Tuning-gettimeofday_speedup.html
May 04 12:01:44 <RST38h> i.e. RedHat has it in the kernel
May 04 12:01:46 <andre__> from past experiences i trust lucas
May 04 12:01:59 <murrayc> ok
May 04 12:02:25 <woglinde> rst so its only a echo?
May 04 12:03:34 <woglinde> an echo
May 04 12:03:38 <RST38h> woglinde: it is an echo if you have a RedHat Linux Enterprise Edition
May 04 12:03:41 <GeneralAntilles> AFB|Work, under Newstyle, please
May 04 12:03:46 * lbt is breaking in a new coffee cup
May 04 12:03:49 <RST38h> woglinde: otherwise it is fsck fsck fsck fsck
May 04 12:03:53 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, you do realize that's a setting, right?
May 04 12:04:17 <RST38h> General: It is a setting that enables this feature in the RedHat Linux kernel / glibc
May 04 12:04:29 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, avatars on itT. . . . . . .
May 04 12:04:45 <RST38h> General: For Maemo, someone will have to go into the kernel code and port the changes
May 04 12:04:50 <RST38h> General: Ah, that...
May 04 12:05:19 <RST38h> General: I have pretty much abandoned any hopes that you guys will change ITT layout
May 04 12:05:40 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, good for you.
May 04 12:05:44 <RST38h> General: Or implement a choice of color schemes for those who really need it (I do not)
May 04 12:06:30 <RST38h> General: My current plan is to personally petition Reggie into readding the mobile scheme again and use that
May 04 12:07:51 <RST38h> General: Whatever visual silliness you wreak on that poor forum site, I no longer care
May 04 12:08:06 <ShadowJK_> hm, are they selling that smartq5 thing to europe/us anywhere?
May 04 12:08:13 <GeneralAntilles> Woo then we're agreed!
May 04 12:08:36 <RST38h> General: Mmm...I, would not go THAT far with conclusions :)
May 04 12:09:04 <GeneralAntilles> I don't care, you don't care.
May 04 12:09:06 <GeneralAntilles> Sure sounds like it.
May 04 12:09:42 <RST38h> General: Basically, my current take is that the current Maemo.org design has been discussed among a really small group of people who are currently closed to taking any external suggestions seriously
May 04 12:11:05 <RST38h> General: I do think it is bad, but there does not seem to be a way to convey this to the above group.
May 04 12:13:39 <woglinde> rst where did you find the gettimeofday is the sucker?
May 04 12:13:40 <StsN800> RST38h, though, there's been countless open meetings and ml discussions
May 04 12:14:34 <AFB|Work> GeneralAntilles: opps I filed it under TALK
May 04 12:20:14 <RST38h> Sts: Yea, but the same people were present
May 04 12:20:32 <RST38h> Sts: I tried participating a few times, but it did not look like anybody listened
May 04 12:21:22 <RST38h> woglinde: use strace on MicroB
May 04 12:21:22 <woglinde> rst there is no vdso support for arm
May 04 12:21:28 <woglinde> at all
May 04 12:21:37 <woglinde> and the vdso stuff is in for all kernels
May 04 12:21:39 <RST38h> wogline: open a page with a few youtube videos and watch strace go bonkers =)
May 04 12:21:56 <woglinde> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-2.6.29.y.git;a=blob;f=arch/x86/vdso/vclock_gettime.c;h=d9d35824c56f30e56266445cdf9ed5877f94bf52;hb=HEAD
May 04 12:22:08 <RST38h> woglinde: Well, as I said before, it is not simple patch application, some real work has to be done
May 04 12:22:26 <StsN800> oh dear god
May 04 12:22:46 <StsN800> star trek + nokia commercials in .dk
May 04 12:22:59 <RST38h> Sts: Ok, who has got the Nokia handset? =)
May 04 12:23:05 <StsN800> i wonder when lcars tablet shows up
May 04 12:23:54 <StsN800> RST38h, in a bus atm so saw it briefly
May 04 12:24:38 * RST38h wonders what would happen if the new StarTrek movie had all the crew members use N97 instead of traditional tricorders
May 04 12:24:56 <lbt> they wouldn't get a signal
May 04 12:25:04 <lbt> Kirk would die
May 04 12:25:06 <RST38h> hehe
May 04 12:25:07 <StsN800> j j abrams gone insane?
May 04 12:25:07 <lbt> bad idea
May 04 12:25:11 <RST38h> Kirk can't die.
May 04 12:25:49 <RST38h> He is like Achilles, there is just one combination of events that makes him die
May 04 12:26:20 <lbt> DCMA ?
May 04 12:26:30 <lbt> takedown Kirk!!!
May 04 12:26:48 <lbt> ulitmate weapon?
May 04 12:28:00 <RST38h> Only if that combination of events gets 0 probability =)
May 04 12:28:41 <AFB|Work> What do you guys think would be better for minimalist theme a row or two of links that at top of everypage,  or a drop down box full of links that will take up almost as much space?
May 04 12:29:54 <RST38h> AFB: One thin menu at the top
May 04 12:30:08 <RST38h> AFB: Windows style.
May 04 12:30:27 <RST38h> i.e. not the menu but a menu bar, sorry
May 04 12:30:37 <AFB|Work> you saying a set of drop down boxes across the top
May 04 12:30:44 <RST38h> no
May 04 12:30:52 <RST38h> I am saying a menu bar, no drop down boxes
May 04 12:31:15 <RST38h> Drop down boxes = javascript = bad bad bad on an S60 phone
May 04 12:36:28 <AFB|Work> yeah I was trying to get away from the drop down box
May 04 12:36:43 <AFB|Work> I'll just stick with the menus thing I'm working on now
May 04 12:37:14 <RST38h> menus take vertical space and S60 phones have got 320x240 screens
May 04 12:37:48 <RST38h> (and there is no mobile theme any more, so your minimalistic one is all we have got)
May 04 12:42:19 <RST38h> woglinde: btw, the alternative way would be exposing kernel time via mmap()
May 04 12:43:17 <RST38h> woglinde: i.e. you open and mmap some device (/dev/rtc ?) and make gettimeofday() read directly from mmap()ped page
May 04 12:43:43 <woglinde> rst yes
May 04 12:47:27 <ShadowJK> opera mini is also a bit cumbersome with drop down boxes :)
May 04 12:50:35 <fred23>  Hi!  I'm with Mozilla, working on Fennec (Firefox mobile) and I've hit something in the sapwood theme engine that's slowing down our startup... is any theme-expert online ?
May 04 12:57:35 <lbt> fred23: sorry not me
May 04 12:57:46 <fred23> lbt: np
May 04 12:57:49 <lbt> OTOH...
May 04 12:57:51 <timeless_mbp> fred23: have you filed a bug w/ the private bug tracker?
May 04 12:58:01 <lbt> do you know where the maemo source for fennec lives?
May 04 12:58:13 <timeless_mbp> lbl: they're in hg
May 04 12:58:28 <timeless_mbp> the instructions are on wiki.mozilla.org iirc if you really want to pull and build
May 04 12:58:37 <lbt> .dsc ?
May 04 12:58:41 <timeless_mbp> no.
May 04 12:58:48 <lbt> :(
May 04 12:58:54 <timeless_mbp> we aren't talking about packages, we're talking about live projects :)
May 04 12:58:55 <fred23> timeless_mbp : it's not a bug per se... I wanted to talk to someone closer to the code to discuss some improvements I had in mind...
May 04 12:59:15 <lbt> yeah - agile.... package as you go
May 04 12:59:24 <timeless_mbp> agile: don't package at all
May 04 12:59:30 <timeless_mbp> just build continuously
May 04 12:59:38 * lbt thinks you're thinking of Gentoo
May 04 12:59:38 <timeless_mbp> fred23: if you're associated w/ mozilla, you should have access to the private bug database
May 04 12:59:56 <timeless_mbp> fred23: and you should be using it
May 04 13:00:17 <timeless_mbp> file a bug and stick something in it, have someone cc me, i'll connect the bug to an engineer if i can
May 04 13:00:18 <lbt> it's a shame ... if there was a .dsc I could have it building on OBS For Mer in a few minutes
May 04 13:00:31 <timeless_mbp> lbt: and how would that help anyone?
May 04 13:00:56 <lbt> Oh, like there are never inter-OS issues or packaging problems
May 04 13:01:03 <fred23> yeah, but I don't like filing bugs before knowing a minimum and talking with the concerned guys... that might be an irrelevant issue.
May 04 13:01:23 <timeless_mbp> fred23: i can't talk about this in the open, this channel is logged
May 04 13:01:39 <fred23> np
May 04 13:01:44 <timeless_mbp> if you don't have a way of reaching the people you need directly, then use the bug database
May 04 13:01:51 <fred23> I'll do
May 04 13:01:53 <timeless_mbp> don't worry about bug count or quality, we have many and none
May 04 13:02:06 <timeless_mbp> think about it more as a logged secure email
May 04 13:02:19 <timeless_mbp> with safe ways to cc people into a conversation later w/o them losing context
May 04 13:03:04 <fred23> timeless_mbp: cool. thanx
May 04 13:03:42 <lbt> so timeless_mbp, there's really nothing done on packaging it?
May 04 13:04:30 <timeless_mbp> lbt: there are .deb's and things
May 04 13:04:37 <lbt> OK...
May 04 13:04:38 <timeless_mbp> but it's totally irrelevant to our needs as developers
May 04 13:04:46 <timeless_mbp> and you're asking a pair of mozilla devs
May 04 13:04:53 <timeless_mbp> which is ...
May 04 13:04:59 * timeless_mbp goes off searching for analogies
May 04 13:05:29 * thux .fi spam coming sorry, perustettiin Meizirkkin kanssa suomi kanava #nettilaudat tervetuloa local channel for tablets
May 04 13:05:33 <timeless_mbp> like asking a pair of field workers about the recipe for soup
May 04 13:05:37 <lbt> yeah, I know...
May 04 13:06:11 <lbt> thanks for the help though
May 04 13:07:50 <timeless_mbp> seriously though, there are debs in the repository for mozilla
May 04 13:09:50 <lbt> OK, I'm after a .dsc and a tar.gz to run on the Mer autobuilder (getting ready for the Danish weekend)
May 04 13:10:07 <ShadowJK> repository for mozilla?
May 04 13:10:19 * lbt is googling
May 04 13:11:18 <ShadowJK> there's some version of fennec in extras-devel atleast
May 04 13:11:40 <Meiz_n810> lbt get fennec sources from ubuntu-repo
May 04 13:11:46 <Meiz_n810> ubuntu has it
May 04 13:11:47 <qwerty12> That version was put there by X-Fade, it wasn't built with the autobuilder so it may not have source
May 04 13:13:34 <lbt> ta - submitted to OBS
May 04 13:20:57 <RST38h> fred23: Sapwood sources are available AFAIK (at least I remember finding a bug there)
May 04 13:21:15 <RST38h> fred23: So you can easily find what is causing problems
May 04 13:21:55 <fred23> RST38h: what do you mean ?... I've got the sources and I've pinpointed the exact problem. I just wanted to discuss something with the theme guys before submitting hack ideas...
May 04 13:22:04 <RST38h> fred23: Ah
May 04 13:22:08 <fred23> thanx anyways ;-)
May 04 13:22:20 <RST38h> fred23: Submit a bug. It won't be fixed in the current OS2008.
May 04 13:22:37 <fred23> RST38h: you got it.
May 04 13:23:00 <RST38h> fred23: It *may* be fixed in the upcoming OS on the upcoming device, if it still uses the same Sapwood and there is someone in Nokia who shows interest in your bug report.
May 04 13:23:38 <fred23> RST38h: ok, so no big expectations to have here, if I understand correctly..
May 04 13:26:47 <lopz> hi
May 04 13:53:05 <RST38h> fred23: Well, there are at least two things you can do, aside from filing the bug (which is also useful, whatever I said)
May 04 13:53:22 <RST38h> fred23: One is submit your patch to Stskeeps here who will introduce it into MeR
May 04 13:53:47 <RST38h> fred23: Another is to publish the patch and/or the .deb with the patched sapwood on ITT
May 04 13:54:11 <RST38h> fred23: This will at least let people who are interested in a fix apply it to their current tablets
May 04 13:54:31 <Stskeeps> RST38h: option three is simply to talk to herzi :)
May 04 13:54:48 <RST38h> Stskeeps: no official updates to Diablo any more =(
May 04 13:55:00 <Stskeeps> RST38h: sure, but that doesn't mean sapwood doesn't work for diablo :P
May 04 13:55:03 <Stskeeps> and yes, file a bug
May 04 13:55:06 <fred23> Stskeeps: yeah, I tried to get to herzi, but I'm afraid here's rarely online.
May 04 13:55:12 <Stskeeps> file a bug then
May 04 13:55:31 <fred23> Stskeeps: bug filed... np
May 04 13:55:39 <fred23> let's wait then...
May 04 13:56:04 <fred23> thank you all for this prompt support!
May 04 13:56:12 <RST38h> sorry that we can't do more here
May 04 14:00:17 <RST38h> Hmm...N97 supposedly does not have OMAP3
May 04 14:01:33 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 04 14:01:43 <RST38h> 32GB internal flash though, oh yeah
May 04 14:03:01 <lbt> Stskeeps can't fred23 also provide a patch for Mer?
May 04 14:03:06 <Stskeeps> lbt: same code
May 04 14:03:13 <jaska> reminds me, do sdhc cards beyong 16GB work on n810?
May 04 14:03:37 <lbt> yes, except we have the ability to accept and try a patch 'easily'
May 04 14:03:46 <lbt> in Devel:MC ?
May 04 14:03:55 <Stskeeps> sure, but we can get that from the bug report :)
May 04 14:03:58 <lbt> nb xulrunner is building
May 04 14:04:15 <lbt> old Jaunty version
May 04 14:04:21 <Stskeeps> k
May 04 14:05:02 <GeneralAntilles> $700 for the N97
May 04 14:05:10 <GeneralAntilles> They've got to be kidding for an ARM11.
May 04 14:05:23 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, 400MHz and change.
May 04 14:05:46 <lbt> but it allows an easy setup of the osc armel chroot with all the builddeps
May 04 14:05:47 <GeneralAntilles> jaska, cards up to 2TB will work fine.
May 04 14:05:52 * RST38h has no problem with ARM11 (why they hide the exact manufacturer though?) but $700 is way too steep
May 04 14:05:55 <jaska> oh
May 04 14:06:13 <jaska> i just recall it officially being 8g max and 16g working
May 04 14:06:20 <RST38h> It is just a phone, and not even the business E-series model
May 04 14:06:58 <GeneralAntilles> jaska, 8GB is what was available to be certified with at the time the N810 was released.
May 04 14:07:10 <lbt> anyhow, fred23, if you want to get your patch tried on Mer, give me a yell
May 04 14:07:14 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I don't have a problem with ARM11, either, but not for $700.
May 04 14:07:28 <jaska> yeah, thats what i gather, googling around, thinking of upping my sd card from 4 to something
May 04 14:07:31 <ShadowJK> Not that there's any big difference between E series and N series?
May 04 14:07:32 <fred23> lbt: I appreciate ! thanx
May 04 14:07:42 <lbt> np
May 04 14:08:11 <ShadowJK> Except N series has crippled/nonexistant VoIP and E-series has cumbersome media player, I guess..
May 04 14:09:50 * Robot101 has always found the build quality and software stability better on E series
May 04 14:10:00 <Robot101> ie they don't feel like they're going to fall in 2 every time you open the phone
May 04 14:10:06 <GeneralAntilles> Wish somebody would give me some input on the repository.maemo.org improvemnts.
May 04 14:10:10 <Robot101> and the e-mail app actually works. like, I can read and send email.
May 04 14:11:10 * wazd ponders why Reggie killed old iTT theme :(
May 04 14:11:30 <ShadowJK> dunno, email has "just worked" for me ever since I got my first phone with email support
May 04 14:11:39 <ShadowJK> Series 40 :)
May 04 14:12:12 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, it's not compatible with the new vBulletin
May 04 14:12:14 <Robot101> its been variously shit in most of the S60 phones I've had until E-series
May 04 14:12:32 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: ah, damn(
May 04 14:13:14 <GeneralAntilles> E71x, 5800, or wait for the Maemo phone. . . .
May 04 14:13:44 * ShadowJK is pondering E71 vs E75 now :/
May 04 14:14:34 <GeneralAntilles> E75 seems extra expensive for little purpose.
May 04 14:14:45 <GeneralAntilles> $200 just doesn't seem worth it.
May 04 14:15:12 <ShadowJK> oh my memory had them down as similarily priced, or atleast I was assuming they'd be similar once E75 is out in volume
May 04 14:15:34 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe, it's listed at around $550, now, though, right?
May 04 14:15:36 <ShadowJK> ah right, 100E difference
May 04 14:16:02 <ShadowJK> 340 for E71, 425 for E75 with dubious shipping dates all over
May 04 14:16:35 * Robot101 has an E66 and is v. happy
May 04 14:17:26 <ShadowJK> I know if I get an E66 I'll be sad if any operator decides to extend HSDPA coverage
May 04 14:18:59 <ShadowJK> hm, E71 is 389E on Nokia's online store and E75 is 499
May 04 14:19:29 <GeneralAntilles> E71 is about $320 USD here.
May 04 14:19:34 <ShadowJK> Robot101, oh I was thinking of E63
May 04 14:21:50 <ShadowJK> hm, E66 does seem to have both 2100 and 900 band 3g and hsdpa, but no qwerty and costs more than E71? wtf? :)
May 04 14:24:22 <suihkulokki> style costs :)
May 04 14:26:11 <ShadowJK> how much would it cost to put modern hardware inside E70 formfactor :(
May 04 14:28:02 <RST38h> moo wazd
May 04 14:28:26 <RST38h> Shadow: Will probably cost a few human sacrifices to the Tentacled One =)
May 04 14:28:49 <inz> wazd has no easter eggs
May 04 14:28:51 <lbt> RST38h: human?
May 04 14:28:58 <wazd> RST38h: heya)
May 04 14:29:06 <lbt> I have a cat here that keeps treading on my keyboard
May 04 14:29:08 <lbt> will she do?
May 04 14:29:13 <RST38h> lbt: What did you expect? A rabbit?
May 04 14:29:17 <RST38h> lbt: No.
May 04 14:29:22 <lbt> aw please
May 04 14:29:27 <lbt> I'll put sauce on her
May 04 14:30:51 <RST38h> lbt: The Tentacled One liks brains!
May 04 14:31:01 <lbt> oh, she's smart
May 04 14:31:09 <lbt> and quite pudgy too
May 04 14:31:36 <lbt> I've told her what's coming!
May 04 14:31:39 <RST38h> No new E70 for you.
May 04 14:32:49 <wazd> RST38h: kids at Fruct were charmed with ATi :)
May 04 14:34:01 <RST38h> wazd: Poor kids, they have nothing to learn programming on nowadays =)
May 04 14:34:54 <wazd> I surrender, I can't use iTT anymore
May 04 14:34:59 <Stskeeps> use minimal theme
May 04 14:35:00 <Stskeeps> :P
May 04 14:35:35 <RST38h> Sts: it has also got problems
May 04 14:35:43 <RST38h> fewer, yes
May 04 14:35:47 <wazd> Stskeeps: it doesn't show new messages
May 04 14:35:57 <Stskeeps> "New posts" on rightmost
May 04 14:35:59 <Stskeeps> and "Active topics"
May 04 14:36:06 * Stskeeps has new posts bookmarked.
May 04 14:36:20 <RST38h> Sts: but it wastes so much space...
May 04 14:36:28 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, what's the problem?
May 04 14:36:41 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I filed a bug about that.
May 04 14:37:27 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: too much noise and no info arrange
May 04 14:37:37 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, what does that means?
May 04 14:37:43 <GeneralAntilles> There's less noise, as there are no ads anymore.
May 04 14:38:12 <GeneralAntilles> There's actually less information overall on the page.
May 04 14:38:16 <Stskeeps> huh.
May 04 14:38:24 <Stskeeps> can it be a capactive screen when my nokia stylus works on it?
May 04 14:38:36 <lcuk> it could be dual mode
May 04 14:38:36 <RST38h> General: fixing it will require removal of the right column, but it is contrary to the maemo.org style =(
May 04 14:38:39 <lcuk> but i doubt it
May 04 14:38:53 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, for the topic list? Bull.
May 04 14:39:22 <RST38h> General: it's 25% of the total width
May 04 14:39:27 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, somebody lied?
May 04 14:39:39 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: http://s54.radikal.ru/i145/0905/ae/14e4a8b99df3.png
May 04 14:39:50 <RST38h> With no clear use (which is true for most of those columns)
May 04 14:39:58 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: This theme should be called "Kill All Humans" you know
May 04 14:40:23 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, I'm not sure what you're showing me.
May 04 14:41:00 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: why the hell titles are orange?
May 04 14:41:11 * RST38h personally has no problem with the color
May 04 14:41:24 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: why not black?
May 04 14:41:32 <GeneralAntilles> Because that's what links are colored.
May 04 14:41:34 <RST38h> But if everybody wishes, I can submit a bug tracker asking to provide a quick color scheme selection box
May 04 14:41:44 <GeneralAntilles> Black makes it impossible to tell that it's a link.
May 04 14:41:51 <RST38h> Shouldn't be difficult really
May 04 14:42:05 <RST38h> General: Should I
May 04 14:42:07 <RST38h> ?
May 04 14:42:08 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: okay, what about block at the right
May 04 14:42:13 <GeneralAntilles> Nobody's really fixated on orange, but no other viable link color have been proposed.
May 04 14:42:21 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: it's black and it's a link
May 04 14:42:24 <ShadowJK> Stskeeps, so it's really "capacitive" and not capacitive then ;-)
May 04 14:42:35 <ShadowJK> I suspect the battery is "2400mAh" and not 2400 mAh too ;-)
May 04 14:43:02 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: BTW there is a huge difference between link in a text and a Title
May 04 14:43:25 <RST38h> General: Should I file bug tracker for Talk or for website in general?
May 04 14:44:11 <GeneralAntilles> Links colors should go under Newstyle.
May 04 14:44:22 <RST38h> Understood
May 04 14:44:31 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: Anyway, I will not criticize new style anymore cause it's senseless
May 04 14:45:39 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, specific improvement suggestions are good. Generic "it sucks" are not.
May 04 14:46:24 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: I've made a huge post bout specific improvements. Only one was actually made
May 04 14:47:08 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: Headline links were added (which are black too btw)
May 04 14:47:56 <RST38h> wazd, General: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4467
May 04 14:48:22 <RST38h> I hope the description is neutral enough and will satisfy both the web site maintainers and the ITT crowd
May 04 14:49:03 <RST38h> Orange-on-gray will of course stay the default color, so the branding is retained
May 04 14:49:43 <wazd> RST38h: I should have another account to confirm?
May 04 14:50:21 <RST38h> wazd: I think bugzilla accounts are separate from maemo ones
May 04 14:54:41 <wazd> RST38h: eeh... I had only "leave as unconfirmed" option
May 04 14:55:14 <RST38h> wazd: oh you can't confirm it yourself
May 04 14:55:26 <RST38h> wazd: But you can vote for it and if enough people vote it gets autoconfirmed
May 04 14:55:49 <GeneralAntilles> Confirming isn't all that excitingly important here.
May 04 14:56:42 <RST38h> wazd: Find "Vote for this bug" link, click on it and check it
May 04 15:02:12 <wazd> RST38h: it was hard but I've made it :)
May 04 16:15:57 <radic> I bound /media/mmc2/user to /home/user via a init-script
May 04 16:16:08 <radic> I linked ist to rcX.d as S10...
May 04 16:47:00 <radic> Stskeeps: the Themes are not in /home/user?
May 04 16:47:20 <Meizirkki> /usr/share/themes ?
May 04 16:51:47 <radic> Meizirkki: I have some dataloss in /home/user now the theme wouldn't be loaded correctly
May 04 16:54:52 <radic> I restored a backup, I hope it helps
May 04 16:55:56 <radic> no, it didn't
May 04 17:18:04 <skibur> has anybody put Arm Slackware on the Tablet yet?
May 04 17:22:14 <Shadow__X> has anyone gotten auto nick complete without  tab working using xchat
May 04 18:46:50 <Stskeeps> whoa
May 04 18:46:53 <Stskeeps> where'd the orange writing go?
May 04 18:46:57 <Stskeeps> (in titles)
May 04 18:47:45 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, gone, apparently. :P
May 04 18:49:35 <RST38h> ehhehe
May 04 19:03:42 <RST38h> "All personnel working around SCP-807 must be well-fed, and should preferably wear oral restraints to prevent accidental ingestion."
May 04 19:13:49 <Jaffa> Ev'nin all
May 04 19:14:21 <Jaffa> White wine at in-laws with Torchwood marathon. Great
May 04 19:14:50 <Jaffa> Not even articles on p.m.o can bring me down :)
May 04 19:15:55 <GeneralAntilles> Livin' high, and having fun, eh?
May 04 19:17:09 * johnx reads chinese forums through google translate 
May 04 19:20:25 <RST38h> umm... why?
May 04 19:20:33 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Wine helps at the in-laws' ;-)
May 04 19:35:41 <GAN800> A 15" laptop really is a battleship.
May 04 19:35:45 <reset> hello
May 04 19:36:08 <reset> anybody knows if exists a project for maemo running over nokia 5800??
May 04 19:46:56 <RST38h> no
May 04 19:47:52 <johnx> RST38h, the SmartQ 5
May 04 19:50:33 <RST38h> johnx: I am hearing about SmartQ since Sts got his this morning. What exactly is the big deal? It looks like a generic Chinese PMP, is there something special about it?
May 04 19:51:10 <johnx> RST38h, 1) it's cheap and commonly available in China 2) it's as open (maybe more open?) than the N8x0 devices were on launch
May 04 19:51:19 <johnx> but the emphasis is on 1. It's actually a big deal over there
May 04 20:00:29 <RST38h> Hmm, interesting
May 04 20:00:55 * RST38h thought hundreds of PMPs are commonly available in China, a market in Taipei certainly made me believe that
May 04 20:01:30 <johnx> RST38h, hundreds of open, linux-running PMPs with a company that's actually providing support and firmware updates?
May 04 20:02:08 <johnx> honestly, I don't know why this is so big, but I think it struck the same chord with the Chinese Linux community as the N8x0 struck with the US/CA/EU Linux community
May 04 20:02:36 <ShadowJK> Most of the "MP4" and "MP5" PMPs are rockchip based, this is arm-based.. :)
May 04 20:07:44 <RST38h> johnx: Interesting...
May 04 20:08:20 <RST38h> johnx: I actually thought a lot of these devices were pretty open to begin with, but that is probably because I was looking from developer's point of view
May 04 20:08:29 <RST38h> I mean, commercial developer
May 04 20:09:03 <johnx> yeah, I think (at least some people) are actually getting tired of pirating crappy half-working programs and having no recourse
May 04 20:10:01 <suihkulokki> It was curious to find out a mips-based linux laptop had open documentation
May 04 20:10:06 <suihkulokki> ..but only in chinese
May 04 20:10:26 <johnx> ah, that mips thing? I saw one of those at a little shop once :)
May 04 20:10:28 <johnx> I think
May 04 20:10:36 <ShadowJK> There are several :)
May 04 20:10:50 <suihkulokki> several based on same design
May 04 20:10:57 <johnx> it was like a MIPS, 64MB of RAM, Linux and a 480x320 7" screen.
May 04 20:11:57 <ShadowJK> There's a family of them with MIPS, 512 - 2 gig of ram, 1024x600 9" too
May 04 20:12:13 <johnx> that sounds much more worthwhile
May 04 20:12:14 <ShadowJK> Lemote YeeLoong 8089, for example
May 04 20:12:35 <johnx> the one I played with cost almost as much as the original eeePC, and was at almost the same weight...
May 04 20:12:47 <RST38h> suihkulokki: Actually, I think I have English language documentation for it :)
May 04 20:13:10 <RST38h> But not, I would not suggest a MIPS based laptop to anyone
May 04 20:13:17 <ShadowJK> Only reason why you'd get it though is if you're a free (as in GNU) fanatic... it costs more than a low end EEE for similar performance and hungrier power consumption
May 04 20:13:41 <johnx> I highly doubt it's as fast as even the original eeePC...
May 04 20:13:41 <ShadowJK> http://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61504599/Products/CFL-002
May 04 20:13:53 <ShadowJK> yeah it isn't
May 04 20:13:59 <RST38h> MIPS devices are actually cheaper than ARM ones but, again, the architecture is mightily outdates
May 04 20:14:05 <RST38h> outdated
May 04 20:14:08 <ShadowJK> Stallman has that one as his primary computer :-)
May 04 20:14:23 <ShadowJK> (after olpc embraced windows)
May 04 20:14:24 <johnx> heh, as long as it runs emacs, huh?
May 04 20:14:44 <RST38h> Well, Stallman walks around the town with a kettle and a supermarket bag with tea packs
May 04 20:14:54 <RST38h> (or so the legend says anyway)
May 04 20:15:18 <ShadowJK> Yeah... and tinfoil
May 04 20:15:19 <johnx> actually, that's kinda cool
May 04 20:15:29 <johnx> 335EU is a little high though
May 04 20:15:34 <ShadowJK> yeah
May 04 20:15:45 <ShadowJK> It's "kinda cool", I don't know why, but I think so too :-)
May 04 20:16:12 <luke-jr> RST38h: what? MIPS architecture is awesome
May 04 20:16:18 <ShadowJK> I've been tempted to get one... but then I remind myself of what kind of EEE or Acer you could get for 335
May 04 20:16:34 <RST38h> luke: Have you actually tried programming for mips?
May 04 20:16:37 <johnx> at 335 or so, the HP mini looks really nice
May 04 20:16:38 <RST38h> in assembler?
May 04 20:16:48 <luke-jr> RST38h: yes, and reverse engineered
May 04 20:17:06 <RST38h> and how is that academic monstrosity better than arm?
May 04 20:17:18 <LiraNuna> anyone else gets 96/100 in ACID3 in Tear?
May 04 20:17:23 <luke-jr> now you're asking for a relative comparison
May 04 20:17:26 <luke-jr> I don't know ARM asm
May 04 20:17:44 <ShadowJK> you could compare it to itanium
May 04 20:17:48 <johnx> LiraNuna, me too. Bundyo was getting 100/100 a couple weeks ago
May 04 20:17:58 <luke-jr> I don't know Itanium asm either
May 04 20:18:08 <LiraNuna> luke-jr, ARM has 16 registers, all 16bit
May 04 20:18:11 <LiraNuna> 32bit*
May 04 20:18:22 <LiraNuna> named r0 to r15
May 04 20:18:37 <luke-jr> ok
May 04 20:18:45 <luke-jr> MIPS has 32x 32-bit regs
May 04 20:18:58 <LiraNuna> asm is similar to mips, but you don't have a 'dst'
May 04 20:19:07 <LiraNuna> add r0, r1
May 04 20:19:12 <LiraNuna> r0 += r1
May 04 20:19:58 <luke-jr> LiraNuna: this is a good thing?
May 04 20:20:04 <LiraNuna> you can also inline shift, mov r0, r1, lsl#3
May 04 20:20:14 <LiraNuna> which is r0 = r1 << 3
May 04 20:20:25 <luke-jr> MIPS is RISC ;)
May 04 20:20:46 <LiraNuna> I know that, but the syntax is similar
May 04 20:20:49 <LiraNuna> just no dst
May 04 20:20:53 <RST38h> luke: You can't use most of MIPS registers because they are allocated by ABI or the OS
May 04 20:21:14 <luke-jr> RST38h: that's an ABI/OS issue
May 04 20:21:28 <RST38h> luke: You do not have conditional opcode execution, builtin shifts, you can't load more than 16bit integer in a single instruction
May 04 20:21:41 <RST38h> luke: When you are the one programming it, it is YOUR issue.
May 04 20:22:13 <luke-jr> RST38h: what stops an OS from using fewer registers?
May 04 20:22:18 <RST38h> Let us see....mm....Ah, I forgot that once MIPS encounters a potential stall it just continues running, corrupting your state
May 04 20:22:29 <RST38h> So the assembler automatically inserts NOPs for stalls :)
May 04 20:22:50 <luke-jr> sure you understand that?
May 04 20:22:54 <RST38h> luke: What stops you from eating concrete bricks?
May 04 20:23:03 <luke-jr> instruction 3 is already started when instruction 1 finishes
May 04 20:23:03 <RST38h> Yes, luke-jr, I understand that
May 04 20:23:40 <RST38h> luke-jr: write a program that does loads, stores, or branches, compile it with assembler, then look at the binary
May 04 20:24:01 * johnx makes some popcorn, grabs a drink
May 04 20:24:11 <luke-jr> RST38h: yes, I agree GCC could use some better MIPS optimizations ;)
May 04 20:24:13 <RST38h> luke-jr: Ask yourself why some of your instructions take 2x32bit words, not just one
May 04 20:24:17 <RST38h> Oh dear
May 04 20:24:32 <luke-jr> how do you expect to load a 32-bit value with only a single 32-bit word
May 04 20:24:33 <luke-jr> ?
May 04 20:24:46 <RST38h> It is not about optimizations. It is about an architectural feature where MIPS does not stall no matter what
May 04 20:24:58 <luke-jr> define 'stall'?
May 04 20:25:17 <RST38h> luke-jr: Do exactly what I said. See what happens. Google for the definition of "stall".
May 04 20:25:43 <luke-jr> Google doesn't know
May 04 20:27:25 <RST38h> luke-jr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instruction_pipelining
May 04 20:29:17 <luke-jr> RST38h: looks like a safeguard for incorrect code
May 04 20:31:26 <ssvb> luke-jr: looks like not having stalls implemented in HW restricts the possibilities to make a new CPU core with higher latencies which is still compatible with the binaries built for old CPUs
May 04 20:32:42 <derf> ssvb: If Intel had had that restriction, we wouldn't have had the abomination known was the Pentium 4.
May 04 20:32:54 <LiraNuna> ^ lol.
May 04 20:33:02 <derf> *as
May 04 20:35:29 <RST38h> luke-jr: you need a junior-level college class on comp arch
May 04 20:36:16 <ssvb> derf: no, we would probably have itanic by now :)
May 04 20:36:30 <RST38h> luke-jr: Anything taught by Hennessy&Patterson book will do. BTW, Hennessy is the guy who headed the MIPS project
May 04 20:37:12 <johnx> ...also makes some good booze
May 04 20:38:40 <luke-jr> ssvb: maybe my code EXPECTS the pipeline ;)
May 04 20:42:21 <RST38h> pipelines by themselves are no problem
May 04 20:42:42 <RST38h> They are actually good for you =)
May 04 21:04:29 <RST38h> <sleep>
May 04 21:05:00 <johnx> 'night RST38h
May 04 21:12:19 <Macer> know this may sound strange but
May 04 21:12:24 <Macer> which debian install cd would i use for a core2duo?
May 04 21:12:31 <Macer> ia64?
May 04 21:13:46 <johnx> not ia64. you either want x86 or amd64 (not sure what it's called)
May 04 21:14:06 <Macer> hm. so no itanium arch used on core2duo?
May 04 21:14:11 <Macer> do they even make itaniums anymore?
May 04 21:14:15 <johnx> yup
May 04 21:14:18 <johnx> it's for servers
May 04 21:14:20 <Macer> oh
May 04 21:14:24 <johnx> not common servers though
May 04 21:14:27 <Macer> virtualization etc?
May 04 21:14:32 <KurtKraut> how can I turn on or blink the N800 led? Does this envolve writing to a file in /proc like in laptops?
May 04 21:14:32 <johnx> not even...
May 04 21:14:35 <matt> Unfortuently I do not believe that the Nokia n810 is for me. I bought it expecting it to have a faster processor than it does. So reckon I am going to sell it on Ebay. Any tips on how to "wipe" the internals and then make it like new again?
May 04 21:14:42 <Macer> more like cracking hte genome servers?
May 04 21:14:50 <johnx> yeah, stuff like that
May 04 21:15:32 <Macer> haha
May 04 21:15:35 <Macer> they are that good?
May 04 21:15:57 <johnx> Macer, not really, but some people have high budgets and low expectations. they're pretty good for a certain subset of problems
May 04 21:16:01 <johnx> matt, clean up files from the internal memory, then reflash
May 04 21:16:07 <Macer> haha
May 04 21:16:15 <johnx> KurtKraut, I think there's a d-bus call you can use. let me check
May 04 21:16:19 <Macer> high budgets and low expectations :) that's awesome
May 04 21:16:45 <matt> johnx: Ok, so lets see, hook it up via usb to do the clean up?
May 04 21:16:48 <Macer> i honestly thought they were discontinued
May 04 21:17:00 <Macer> and were shoved into newer tech like core2duo
May 04 21:17:01 <johnx> matt, yup. delete anything that's yours, but leave the map files alone :)
May 04 21:17:05 <Macer> kind of like ppro and p3s
May 04 21:17:21 <matt> johnx: So things such as passwords and stuff....stored in the things..........:(
May 04 21:17:31 <KurtKraut> johnx, I want to make a plugin for Pidgin to make this led to blink when there are unread messages
May 04 21:17:37 <Macer> debian.org goes slow as shit
May 04 21:17:41 <johnx> Macer, nope. it's a totally different architecture. AMD forced Intel's hand by making 64-bit processors that were backwards compatible with x86 binaries
May 04 21:18:34 <KurtKraut> matt: just reinstall the firmware. But what kind of usage you have that N810 is not fast enough?
May 04 21:18:55 <Macer> oh so itaniums were pure 64bit?
May 04 21:18:56 <matt> KurtKraut: Mainly internet browsing..I just thought it'd be faster than it is.
May 04 21:18:57 <johnx> matt, that gets cleared when you reflash
May 04 21:19:07 <matt> KurtKraut: I find myself waiting to get to my desktop instead....
May 04 21:19:08 <Macer> well. that's an awesome concept :)
May 04 21:19:14 <matt> really I just need a laptop....
May 04 21:19:22 <Macer> they should leave i386 shit to C7s and atoms
May 04 21:19:29 <johnx> matt, before you sell it, have you tried the "Tear" web browser
May 04 21:19:38 <johnx> Macer, then why aren't you using an itanium? :)
May 04 21:19:48 <matt> johnx: No I haven't, is it better?
May 04 21:19:51 <Macer> johnx: don't have one :(
May 04 21:19:54 <Macer> maybe i'll buy one
May 04 21:19:59 <Macer> i would rather buy a sparc first tho
May 04 21:20:14 <Macer> a dec alpha or something
May 04 21:20:16 <Macer> that would be awesome
May 04 21:20:19 <johnx> matt, lots better. might be worth a try before you reflash and clear out your tablet. nothing to lose after all :)
May 04 21:20:23 <KurtKraut> matt: I don't think you will get faster than this on a portable device.
May 04 21:20:31 <johnx> KurtKraut, seen this: http://maemo.jabber.dk/ ?
May 04 21:20:52 <Macer> matt: i tried a netbook (the acer one) it's still slow as shit with xp or linux on it
May 04 21:20:57 <Macer> and that ist he laptop version of ultra-portable
May 04 21:21:06 <Macer> it's 10x larger than an n800 and runs slower imo
May 04 21:21:19 <matt> johnx: KurtKraut I may take a look at it. But another major reason I am considering is this: I tried and tried and tried to format videos for the n810, but they weren't ever smooth unless I really made the videos crap quality.
May 04 21:21:23 <Macer> it was nice for an extremely small laptop though. i will give it that much. but it won't fit in a pocket
May 04 21:21:37 <johnx> matt, even in mplayer?
May 04 21:21:46 <Macer> matt: easiest way i found was to use nero recode and use the ipod profile
May 04 21:21:55 <matt> johnx: Sadly. If I jumped the resolution down........well then it'd finally work.
May 04 21:21:55 <Macer> they run great doing that :)
May 04 21:22:06 <Macer> although you can probably make a better profile for it but i've never tried
May 04 21:22:15 <lbt> lcuk hey... seriously cool new 3D technology  game available on the iPhone *and* should work on the N8x0 and probably 770 too very realistic :   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2AF0GMjUsQ
May 04 21:22:17 <Macer> 90MB and good enough quality to actually sit there and watch them without skipping
May 04 21:22:18 <matt> Macer: I tried quite a bit of stuff............
May 04 21:22:26 <KurtKraut> johnx: no, and I cannot generate too much traffic on th connection I am using. Could you tell me what it is?
May 04 21:22:29 <johnx> matt, at about 400x240 or so video should still look pretty good
May 04 21:22:31 <Macer> matt: use nero recode ;)
May 04 21:22:37 <Macer> trust me.. easiest way
May 04 21:23:02 <johnx> KurtKraut, it's a LED blinking pluging for Pidgin. Source included. even if it doesn't work, it might give you a clue as to where to write to
May 04 21:23:03 <Macer> mp4/aac ftw
May 04 21:23:13 <Macer> bbl
May 04 21:23:43 <tds5016> hello all. can someone tell me how I'd get the mac address of the device in python?
May 04 21:23:50 <tds5016> the maemo device*
May 04 21:23:52 <tds5016> it's an n810
May 04 21:24:08 <johnx> do you mind just calling ash from inside python?
May 04 21:25:16 <lcuk> lbt, thats hyper realistic, but the technology on the 810 cannot cope - where would the balls go
May 04 21:25:17 <tds5016> johnx: was that to me?
May 04 21:25:38 <johnx> tds5016, yes. though I think someone had a way to do it in pure python
May 04 21:25:50 <lbt> I thought you'd be impressed
May 04 21:26:28 <tds5016> johnx: oh okay. I'd prefer to have it in pure python.
May 04 21:26:30 <lcuk> maybe we could get craves one to make an attachment
May 04 21:26:44 <tds5016> but if worse comes to worse, I'll settle for making a call to ash.
May 04 21:27:21 <tds5016> can you send me a tutorial on how I'd do that?
May 04 21:28:01 <johnx> well, in sh: /sbin/ifconfig | grep HW
May 04 21:28:53 <KurtKraut> johnx: that sounds great, thanks.
May 04 21:28:55 <johnx> hm, maybe: /sbin/ifconfig | grep wlan0
May 04 21:29:04 <johnx> that way if usb0 is up too you don't get both ;)
May 04 21:29:36 <johnx> cutting out the part you want is left as an exercise in python. :D should be simple though
May 04 21:29:44 <paul0> yay! got one N800!
May 04 21:29:53 <johnx> congrats paul0
May 04 21:29:57 <paul0> now the battery is full, and i'll upgrade the firmware
May 04 21:30:00 <matt> So...I plugged the nokia up to computer....I cannot remember where the *.* config files are.
May 04 21:30:04 <paul0> johnx, thanks :)
May 04 21:30:43 <johnx> matt, the config files will be erased when you reflash. for now just delete anything on the "Internal Memory" that's yours
May 04 21:30:56 <matt> johnx: oh, then I should be good.
May 04 21:31:02 <matt> johnx: now...how to reflash......
May 04 21:31:29 <johnx> ~flashing
May 04 21:31:31 <infobot> hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
May 04 21:33:20 <paul0> how do i check my firmware version?
May 04 21:33:34 <johnx> menu -> settings -> control panel -> about
May 04 21:33:47 <paul0> well, my N800 is probably running the OS2007, afaik all the N800 comes with it, right?
May 04 21:34:11 <paul0> i'll check anyway
May 04 21:34:13 <johnx> yup
May 04 21:34:23 <johnx> even if it's OS2008 it's probably an old version
May 04 21:35:21 <paul0> it is the OS2007
May 04 21:35:42 <johnx> well, then definitely get that upgraded to OS2008 :)
May 04 21:36:03 <paul0> yup, i'm downloading the image
May 04 21:36:08 <johnx> good deal :)
May 04 21:37:21 <paul0> finally this N800 came to Brazil with a good price
May 04 21:38:04 <johnx> ah good! I heard they were really expensive there for a long time
May 04 21:38:49 <paul0> it usually costs R$1000, but one online store is selling it for R$399 now
May 04 21:39:05 <johnx> wow. that's a big price drop
May 04 21:39:11 <paul0> yup
May 04 21:39:23 <johnx> glad to hear it's not a scam, too ;)
May 04 21:39:57 <johnx> that's a lot closer to the US price :)
May 04 21:40:08 <paul0> yes
May 04 21:40:27 <johnx> R$1000 was more than the US launch price, I think
May 04 21:40:30 <paul0> now linux MIDs became much more popular
May 04 21:40:32 <paul0> here
May 04 21:42:07 <paul0> it doesn't come with FM Radio application already?
May 04 21:42:22 <johnx> nope. but it's available to download
May 04 21:42:29 <johnx> do you have wifi?
May 04 21:42:40 <paul0> yes, but i'll download it later
May 04 21:43:03 <paul0> first firmware upgrade, later i'll start downloading some applications :)
May 04 21:47:33 <thopiekar> etrunko: PING
May 04 21:49:10 <etrunko> thopiekar: pong
May 04 21:49:29 <thopiekar> how is the progress with the e17 deb-repos?
May 04 21:50:59 <thopiekar> are there now available repos out there? , etrunko
May 04 21:51:10 <etrunko> thopiekar: not ready yet
May 04 21:51:23 <etrunko> http://packages.enlightenment.org
May 04 21:51:33 <thopiekar> I tried to make packages from svn
May 04 21:51:44 <thopiekar> but I have lots of trouble
May 04 21:51:44 <matt> johnx: Macer I keep haveing troubles flashing it, I keep getting "command not found"
May 04 21:51:49 <matt> for the flasher...it's odd.
May 04 21:51:55 <etrunko> thopiekar: the guys are fixing the last bits in packages
May 04 21:52:03 <etrunko> thopiekar: you tried for maemo?
May 04 21:52:17 <thopiekar> please add to the dependencies cvn of e17..
May 04 21:52:26 <paul0> "Suitable USB device not found, waiting"
May 04 21:52:28 <etrunko> or ubuntu/debian ?
May 04 21:52:31 <paul0> i've did something wrong?
May 04 21:52:58 <thopiekar> etrunko: no I need the packages for a virtual maschine..
May 04 21:53:26 <thopiekar> etrunko: k.. so the repos will be online in the next... ?
May 04 21:53:46 <etrunko> thopiekar: later this week i think
May 04 21:54:44 <thopiekar> I'm just thinking about making a vm for maemo.. maybe somethink like maemoSDKvm+.. INDT's vmdk's are not defragmented to they are very big..
May 04 21:55:13 <etrunko> hmm
May 04 21:55:28 <kenne> thopiekar, maybe talk to setanta here on freenode, he did the vmdk
May 04 21:55:40 <etrunko> thopiekar: you can try #pkg-e for further information on the repository
May 04 21:56:06 <thopiekar> I managed to defragment a good solution with gnome, android sdk, maemo sdk , etc to 11,6GB and 7zip'd it to 2.8GB
May 04 21:56:21 <thopiekar> etrunko: k
May 04 21:56:50 <thopiekar> 2.8GB are better to share than 20GB :P
May 04 21:56:57 <etrunko> yeah
May 04 21:57:36 <thopiekar> so I want to make a new vm with e17.. e17 is very fast and lightwight.. so the best of a vm :)
May 04 22:01:12 <thopiekar> k.. I have to get some sleep.. see you soon :]
May 04 22:01:22 <KurtKraut> what is the OS2008 default browser?
May 04 22:02:36 <matt> I seemingly cannot flash my n810, either in opensuse 11.1 or ubuntu 8.10.
May 04 22:03:01 <matt> everytime I go to run the flasher, either as root or user, it get "permission denied".
May 04 22:03:18 <tds5016> matt: are you sudoing or sudo su -
May 04 22:03:18 <tds5016> ?
May 04 22:03:26 <tds5016> and yes, there is a difference.
May 04 22:03:35 <matt> tds5016: tried both.
May 04 22:03:59 <tds5016> rut r'oh then. haha.
May 04 22:04:19 <matt> tds5016: I just sudoed su, ./flasher, nothing else, and get this.
May 04 22:04:26 <matt> bash: ./flasher-3.0: Permission denied
May 04 22:04:48 <tds5016> show me what happens if you log in with sudo su -
May 04 22:04:50 <tds5016> first.
May 04 22:05:03 <matt> tds5016: what do you mean?
May 04 22:05:18 <tds5016> run the command sudo su - first
May 04 22:05:29 <tds5016> that way you are actually become root.
May 04 22:05:52 <matt> tds5016: tried it.
May 04 22:05:58 <tds5016> okay, lemme see the outputs.
May 04 22:07:47 <matt> tds5016: tds5016 permission denied.
May 04 22:08:59 <matt> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php
May 04 22:09:23 <matt> tds5016: flasher-3.0, tried all three of them.
May 04 22:10:01 <matt> tds5016: It's strange, because I have flashed it before.
May 04 22:10:06 <tds5016> hmm.... that's strange. I've not much experience, so I may not be able to help.
May 04 22:10:09 <tds5016> I'm sorry.
May 04 22:10:47 <johnx> matt, sudo chmod +x flasher-3.0
May 04 22:11:02 <matt> johnx: tried it
May 04 22:11:14 <b-man> hello, johnx :)
May 04 22:11:34 <johnx> hey b-man
May 04 22:11:54 <johnx> matt, you're sure you have the right version of the flasher?
May 04 22:11:55 <matt> johnx: but...I'm trying the static version on my suse again, i think it will work.
May 04 22:11:58 <tds5016> matt I hate suggesting this, but you could always try from windows...
May 04 22:11:59 <tds5016> :-/.
May 04 22:12:06 <matt> tds5016: yeah right........
May 04 22:12:18 <matt> johnx: Didn't try the static version on suse, it seems to be working.
May 04 22:12:29 <KurtKraut> what is the OS2008 default browser? Is it Fennec?
May 04 22:12:39 <johnx> I'm guessing you had the amd64 version on a 32bit distro or vice versa
May 04 22:12:43 <matt> johnx: Indeed, is working........
May 04 22:12:47 <matt> johnx: dunno.
May 04 22:14:27 <sp3000> KurtKraut: microb
May 04 22:21:14 <KurtKraut> sp3000: thanks. I miss a lot of features, for instance, block the rendering/download of images
May 04 22:22:36 <Macer> word
May 04 22:22:49 * Macer is waiting for this damn debian install to encipher the hard drive
May 04 22:24:35 <johnx> KurtKraut, I think ther's an option to not load images.
May 04 22:25:06 <KurtKraut> johnx: no, there isn't
May 04 22:26:19 <johnx> on the bottom right of the browser screen, click the magnifying glass -> show images -> never
May 04 22:26:21 <KurtKraut> you can block javascript, but not images
May 04 22:27:11 <KurtKraut> oh hell, i was looking for that on the main confifu
May 04 22:27:13 <johnx> :)
May 04 22:27:34 <KurtKraut> oh hell, i was looking for that on the main configuration window. thanks again johnx
May 04 22:27:52 <johnx> no problem. it takes a while to get used to how they laid out the menus
May 04 22:29:10 <Macer> it's amazing how little scientists do :)
May 04 22:29:47 <Macer> they don't usually produce real world results
May 04 22:30:24 <lbt> true.
May 04 22:30:31 <lbt> pass me another wheel
May 04 22:31:04 <Macer> i don't think scientists created the wheel
May 04 22:31:08 <Macer> it was engineers
May 04 22:31:15 <lbt> nah, they built it
May 04 22:31:23 <Macer> i believe the last good thing a scientist made was the atom bomb
May 04 22:31:23 <lbt> a scientist invented it
May 04 22:31:29 <lbt> good?
May 04 22:31:40 <Macer> well... not the bomb in general... but nuclear fission
May 04 22:31:49 <lbt> are you calling the H-bomb bad then?
May 04 22:31:51 <Macer> it had real world results
May 04 22:31:57 <lbt> and fusion is not as good as fission?
May 04 22:31:58 <Macer> no.. it is neither nor
May 04 22:32:04 <Macer> fusion is better :)
May 04 22:32:14 <lbt> but that came after the atom bomb
May 04 22:32:21 <Macer> do they have fusion reactors?
May 04 22:32:22 <lbt> so the last good thing must have been fusion
May 04 22:32:28 <Macer> i thought they were all fission?
May 04 22:33:23 <Macer> i mean realistically.. the medical scientists are the only ones who have contributed anything tangible to the rest of the world in the last 50 years (if not more)
May 04 22:33:57 <lbt> so, say, semiconductors aren't tangible?
May 04 22:34:16 <lbt> nah you're right
May 04 22:34:21 <Macer> what are semiconductors doing that have improved the world greatly?
May 04 22:34:22 <lbt> medical fission
May 04 22:34:28 <Macer> made a nice train at disney world?
May 04 22:34:39 <lbt> well, I can think of some medical devices...
May 04 22:34:48 <lbt> that the medical scientists use
May 04 22:36:10 <Macer> and well.. :)
May 04 22:36:16 <Macer> semiconductors have been around since the 1800s
May 04 22:36:30 <lbt> they've been around since they fused in the sun
May 04 22:36:54 <Macer> sure in a philosophical "we are all stardust" kind of way
May 04 22:37:12 <lbt> and given silicon is a semiconductor then I suppose an egg-timer was the first semiconductor device
May 04 22:37:27 <Macer> but i mean... paleontologists.. they study ancient creatures.. how is that helping the world?
May 04 22:37:46 <Macer> how is it advancing humanity studying how a mammoth lived?
May 04 22:38:27 <lbt> you're right again... there's no point in looking to the past to see how things might change in the future
May 04 22:38:36 <lbt> say how animals coped in ice-ages
May 04 22:38:38 <Macer> sure certain things
May 04 22:38:53 <Macer> but .... the underlying problem was the ice age
May 04 22:38:57 <lbt> when we had changes to the world's temperature
May 04 22:38:58 <Macer> obviously we know what the conditions were
May 04 22:39:04 <lbt> nothing like toda
May 04 22:39:05 <lbt> y
May 04 22:39:13 <lbt> when we will havechanges to the world's temperature
May 04 22:39:15 <Macer> now it is time to find a way to cope with those conditions by making tangible technology
May 04 22:39:32 <Macer> you know what it was and what it does and there is nothing that is being done to do anything about it :)
May 04 22:39:35 <lbt> yes... to do what exactly?
May 04 22:40:00 <lbt> I like solar shades
May 04 22:40:08 <lbt> sounds cool in a big way
May 04 22:40:12 <lbt> on so many levels
May 04 22:41:38 <Macer> build an underground society ?
May 04 22:42:00 <Macer> something.. not just keep studying what the ice age was
May 04 22:42:17 <Macer> Hitler may have been a rotten bastard.. but i think the world needs fascism
May 04 22:42:19 <lbt> but look where the dinosaurs went....
May 04 22:42:22 <lbt> underground
May 04 22:42:33 <Macer> they didn't go underground
May 04 22:42:40 <Macer> they all died and were covered up by lava
May 04 22:42:43 * lbt calls Godwin
May 04 22:42:45 <Macer> :)
May 04 22:43:12 <Macer> fascism would point science into tangible things.. our education systems fail due to lack of control
May 04 22:43:24 <Macer> we have that "pick something you like" thing going on
May 04 22:43:39 <Macer> which in the end results in 1% tangible discovery
May 04 22:43:47 <Macer> and 99% bullshit
May 04 22:46:21 <Macer> 30 years of education wasted just because johnny had a pet horse that died so he decided to become a veterinarian instead of a physisist
May 04 22:46:46 <sp3000> OH NO METRICS RUN FOR YOUR LIFE
May 04 22:46:46 <Macer> and doesn't want to have anybody else lose their pet fish
May 04 22:46:54 <Macer> haha
May 04 22:47:33 <Macer> ok... i have to eat....using microwaves to heat water.. now that was a breakthrough
May 04 22:53:09 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: so...
May 04 22:53:20 <timeless_mbp> i understand why my mbp was unhappy
May 04 22:53:28 <timeless_mbp> and i decided to try to use my new hdd
May 04 22:53:33 <timeless_mbp> sadly i can't follow directions
May 04 22:53:38 <timeless_mbp> so i'll have to try again tomorrow
May 04 22:54:01 <sp3000> heh
May 04 22:55:04 <timeless_mbp> so, instead, what am i doing?
May 04 22:55:07 <timeless_mbp> a friend's laptop died
May 04 22:55:11 <timeless_mbp> it's a lenovo
May 04 22:55:17 <timeless_mbp> and it has a "push to destroy all your data" button
May 04 22:55:23 <timeless_mbp> the system is cute
May 04 22:55:30 <timeless_mbp> 30gb for the "destroyable parition"
May 04 22:55:47 <timeless_mbp> about 200gb for "your data if you're smart enough to manage to hide anything here"
May 04 22:55:54 <timeless_mbp> 16gb for the "destroyer source partition"
May 04 22:55:57 <timeless_mbp> sadly
May 04 22:56:01 <timeless_mbp> it runs vista
May 04 22:56:15 <timeless_mbp> so the OS, ProgramFiles, and WinSxS all live on the destroyable partition
May 04 22:56:18 <timeless_mbp> so does %HOME%
May 04 22:56:41 <timeless_mbp> which meant that among other problems, the C: drive was running out of space (yippee)
May 04 22:56:51 <timeless_mbp> but the "reset your computer" button fixed that problem :)
May 04 22:58:39 <timeless_mbp> well... fixed is overstating it
May 04 22:58:52 <timeless_mbp> since it didn't fix the partitioning to not be insane
May 04 22:59:35 <timeless_mbp> otoh, i'd been waiting for an excuse to reformat the drive w/ a moderately sane partitioning scheme, and it presented itself :)
May 04 23:00:28 <efeefe> hi all, just wondering if anyone has a solution for the problem with diablo initfs in n800
May 04 23:00:44 <efeefe> (the shipped initfs is too big)
May 04 23:01:10 <timeless_mbp> ?
May 04 23:01:20 <timeless_mbp> how can it be too big?
May 04 23:02:50 <efeefe> timeless_mbp: I had the following errorwhile flashing the initfs: "usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable"
May 04 23:02:56 <LiraNuna> efeefe, I recently got an N810WE and I have no problem,
May 04 23:03:08 <LiraNuna> efeefe, are you root? is the USB mounted?
May 04 23:03:30 <efeefe> timeless_mbp: some people say it is too big (2273 kB)
May 04 23:03:41 <efeefe> LiraNuna: not mounted, I'm sudoer
May 04 23:04:08 <LiraNuna> efeefe, what device? what firmware are you trying to flash?
May 04 23:04:52 <efeefe> LiraNuna: n800, trying to flash the latest diablo from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php
May 04 23:05:34 <LiraNuna> I downloaded it and tested N810EW with no problem; I suppose it's an N800 problem only (if exists)
May 04 23:05:45 <sp3000> google doesn't seem to know much of these some people
May 04 23:05:52 <LiraNuna> s/it//
May 04 23:05:52 <infobot> LiraNuna meant: I downloaded  and tested N810EW with no problem; I suppose it's an N800 problem only (if exists)
May 04 23:05:59 <LiraNuna> nice bot
May 04 23:06:15 <sp3000> if by nice you mean annoying :)
May 04 23:06:27 <LiraNuna> some people don't understand it when I use regexps
May 04 23:07:07 <sp3000> efeefe: did you try again?
May 04 23:07:12 <efeefe> LiraNuna: thanks anyway, I'll try downloading a previous firmware
May 04 23:07:16 <efeefe> sp3000: 3 or 4 times
May 04 23:07:27 <crashanddie> lol... What Do I Do If JBOSS Explodes My Computer: http://www.jboss.org/community/docs/DOC-12681
May 04 23:10:05 <LiraNuna> efeefe, sorry I couldn't help
May 04 23:49:44 <LiraNuna> is the maemo repository down for anyone? I can't download software
May 04 23:58:43 <LiraNuna> seems to be fixed now
May 04 23:58:56 <xnt> ¡ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ ollǝɥ
May 04 23:59:17 <b-man> lol
May 04 23:59:20 <xnt> :P
May 04 23:59:29 <b-man> ⎼┴␊⎼: %⎽
May 05 00:01:09 <crashanddie> xnt, that's pretty disturbing
May 05 00:01:31 <xnt> sorry
May 05 00:01:35 <xnt> but watch
May 05 00:01:36 <xnt> ¿4oɯǝɐɯ ɹoɟ ǝɯǝɥʇ 5oɯǝɐɯ uɐ ǝʞɐɯ ǝqʎɐɯ sʎnƃ
May 05 00:01:38 <crashanddie> not in a bad way
May 05 00:01:41 <xnt> guys maybe make an maemo5 theme for maemo4?
May 05 00:01:57 <xnt> turn your monitor up side down
May 05 00:02:03 <xnt> :)
May 05 00:02:04 <crashanddie> I'm good thanks
May 05 00:02:07 <xnt> lol
May 05 00:02:09 <xnt> ok
May 05 00:02:19 <b-man> ⎼
May 05 00:03:01 <LiraNuna> UTF8 ftw
May 05 00:03:15 <LiraNuna> anyone knows a dash build for maemo?
May 05 00:21:03 <LiraNuna> does the maemo sdk contains anything special? or can I compile my own cross compiler (arm-linux-gnu) myself with no problem?
May 05 00:25:35 <LiraNuna> "E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture." *sigh*
May 05 00:26:21 <Macer> ugh
May 05 00:26:30 <Macer> this debian lenny encrypted hard drive erasing takes FOREVER
May 05 00:27:45 <Macer> this debian lenny encrypted hard drive erasing takes FOREVER
May 05 00:27:50 <LiraNuna> this debian lenny encrypted hard drive erasing takes FOREVER
May 05 00:28:21 <Macer> oops
May 05 00:28:29 <Macer> sorry about that
May 05 00:33:28 <LiraNuna> ;P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 05 02:59:57 2009