**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 13 02:59:57 2009
May 13 03:45:33 <luke-jr_> errr
May 13 03:45:35 <luke-jr_> wtf? :/
May 13 03:45:45 <luke-jr_> my N810 just shutdown (normally) all of a sudden
May 13 03:45:48 <luke-jr_> and won't turn on
May 13 03:46:07 <luke-jr_> oh, the plug came out...
May 13 03:46:23 <luke-jr_> but sparked when I plugged in back in :/
May 13 04:45:53 <ShadowJK> luke: sparked between n810 and charger tip or transformer and mains outlet?
May 13 04:46:23 <ShadowJK> the latter isn't extremely uncommon
May 13 05:28:45 <amoult> Does anyone know how to create <app>.desktop  file for own application, so it would show up application menus?
May 13 05:30:06 <amoult> I've created a little hello world application and deb packakge as per instructions here: http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node14.html. Everetyhing else is clear, but whats the contents of app.desktop file and is there some tool to generate it?
May 13 05:33:10 <kfx> amoult: afaik that standard is here: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/ar01s04.html
May 13 05:33:14 <RST38h> amoult: there is a tutorial
May 13 05:34:21 <kfx> sorry amoult I gave you the wrong link
May 13 05:34:24 <kfx> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
May 13 05:34:32 <kfx> ^^ that's the .desktop specification
May 13 05:35:16 <RST38h> http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node7.html
May 13 05:35:23 <amoult> Ok thanks :)
May 13 05:47:54 <thux> morning
May 13 05:57:31 <Meiz_n810> morning
May 13 07:11:42 <Stskeeps> morning timeless_mbp
May 13 07:12:30 <timeless_mbp> um, 12:12 am, so i guess
May 13 07:12:35 <timeless_mbp> but i think it's night time :)
May 13 07:12:37 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 13 07:12:45 <Stskeeps> UGT ;)
May 13 07:13:06 <Stskeeps> however it disturbs people when you use ugt in real life..
May 13 07:14:55 <timeless_mbp> indeed
May 13 07:15:12 <timeless_mbp> i think that /ctcp timeless_mbp time probably works
May 13 07:15:28 * timeless_mbp grumbles
May 13 07:15:33 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 13 07:15:47 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles // Stskeeps : did someone tell penguinbait that he miss-wrote <maemo.org> ?
May 13 07:16:12 * timeless_mbp grumbles
May 13 07:16:14 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: i personally ignore penguinbait, but that's just me :P
May 13 07:16:22 <timeless_mbp> and someone needs to teach him how to use punctuation
May 13 07:16:54 <timeless_mbp> he uses <'>s randomly (where they don't belong...) and doesn't use <,>'s (in places where they're necessary)
May 13 07:44:45 <slonopotamus> -Stskeeps- VERSION irssi v0.8.10 - running on SunOS i86pc o_O
May 13 07:45:12 <Stskeeps> yeah.. Nexenta
May 13 07:46:00 <Stskeeps> i run my irssi on my file server so
May 13 07:47:58 <slonopotamus> should newborn open-wlan-cal read data from /dev/mtd1 or separate reading+storing in a file from reading from file/sending to device?
May 13 07:48:46 <Stskeeps> i'd say read from mtd1
May 13 08:46:47 <Stskeeps> andre__: http://xkcd.com/583/ :>
May 13 08:50:34 <andre__> Stskeeps, uahh....!!!
May 13 08:51:00 <aquatix> :)
May 13 08:51:03 <Stskeeps> taking bug tracking too far :>
May 13 08:51:16 <andre__> have to talk to my boss first before i'd do that. people around told me it's expensive and a long-term investment around 20years
May 13 08:51:29 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 13 09:07:24 <RST38h> While cleaning the fridge, the combination of chemical solvents with neatly labeled cups of rotting yoghurt and pork-roast parfaits created a cloud of toxic fumes that prompted a 911 call and the dispatch of a hazmat team.
May 13 09:07:39 <RST38h> -28 people
May 13 09:07:58 <lcuk> i gather thats a real one and not one of your tales from the crypt things
May 13 09:09:31 <RST38h> lcuk: It ends with a 911 call, so it could not come from the SCP site =)
May 13 09:11:33 <lcuk> is that scp site an open wiki
May 13 09:13:42 <lcuk> ahhh yes its on wikidot
May 13 09:18:26 <RST38h> lcuk: It is a wiki but they seem to grant merit-based modification rights
May 13 09:19:11 <florian> good morning
May 13 09:56:22 <lcuk> mornin danielwilms \o
May 13 09:56:50 <danielwilms> hey lcuk :)
May 13 09:58:21 <lcuk> danielwilms, you should checkout the council uniforms design competition thread no talk :D its lookin cool so far!
May 13 09:59:43 <lcuk> on talk ^
May 13 10:01:17 <slonopotamus> anyone wants to join dsme rewrite project? :P i almost got wlan-cal
May 13 10:01:50 * florian likes the idea but lacks time
May 13 10:02:47 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: DSME is already open source
May 13 10:02:56 <Stskeeps> but feel free to improve on the open one
May 13 10:03:22 <slonopotamus> show me the source :)
May 13 10:03:31 <Stskeeps> sure, se
May 13 10:03:32 <Stskeeps> c
May 13 10:04:13 <Stskeeps> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=dsm
May 13 10:18:03 <slonopotamus> okay. if this is dsme, where's wlan-cal server side?
May 13 10:19:18 * andre__ bangs head against wall
May 13 10:19:22 <slonopotamus> where is code accessing /dev/mtd1?
May 13 10:30:33 <slonopotamus> i dunnow what's this, but it is definitely not [all] sources of thing that listens on /tmp/dsmesock :)
May 13 10:30:58 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: Only client side, I think.
May 13 10:31:42 <slonopotamus> X-Fade, then it's useless and my project still has reason to exist :)
May 13 10:33:22 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: there's a plugin for CAL access which is not OSS :P
May 13 10:33:33 <slonopotamus> CAL - ?
May 13 10:33:53 <Stskeeps> CAL is the area in flash where partition table, some config settings, wifi calibration data, etci s
May 13 10:34:11 <slonopotamus> /dev/mtd1 you wanted to say? :)
May 13 10:34:33 <Stskeeps> that's the area in flash :P
May 13 10:35:09 <slonopotamus> that's the most interesting part of whole dsme.
May 13 10:36:22 <slonopotamus> is there anything useful in opened parts? wd kicker?
May 13 10:37:17 <slonopotamus> thermal management... have you ever heard of tablet that turned off because it was too hot?
May 13 10:37:47 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: Try it out? Put it in the oven and _slowly_ turn up the heat?
May 13 10:38:14 <slonopotamus> X-Fade, something more realistic, please
May 13 10:38:24 <X-Fade> I would imagine that it should kick in pretty soon.
May 13 10:38:30 <X-Fade> At like 65C orso.
May 13 10:38:38 <X-Fade> Which is far too low to do any damage.
May 13 10:39:00 <slonopotamus> and what's the point then?
May 13 10:39:07 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: See if it works?
May 13 10:39:13 <slonopotamus> why turn off if no damage?
May 13 10:39:27 <slonopotamus> when it's too hot, turning off won't help :)
May 13 10:39:28 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: Ah, I meant to melt plastic orso.
May 13 10:39:55 <lbt> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8047546.stm  Intel has been fined a record 1.06bn euros
May 13 10:40:12 <slonopotamus> okay, useless. smth else?
May 13 10:41:33 <slonopotamus> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/dsme/trunk/modules/dsme_wd.c?revision=155&root=dsm&view=markup
May 13 10:41:34 <slonopotamus> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/dsme/trunk/modules/hwwd.c?revision=155&root=dsm&view=markup
May 13 10:41:35 <slonopotamus> o_O
May 13 10:42:15 <slonopotamus> ah. kicker and 'kicker thread'.
May 13 10:43:12 <slonopotamus> okaaay
May 13 10:43:17 <slonopotamus> i ran 'make'
May 13 10:44:21 * RST38h moos gleefully
May 13 10:44:23 <slonopotamus> dsme-cal.c:29:17: error: cal.h:No such file or directory
May 13 10:44:47 <slonopotamus> aaand? abusing gpl? :)
May 13 10:45:23 <Stskeeps> you haven't officially received any binaries with it compiled in :P
May 13 10:45:54 <RST38h> hardcore gpl abuse detected
May 13 10:46:38 <RST38h> btw, anyone knows what OpenMoko's screen size is?
May 13 10:47:09 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, hmm... right
May 13 10:48:07 <lardman> morning
May 13 10:50:49 <slonopotamus> write(wd_fd, "*\n", 2) hehe :) watchdog likes asterisks
May 13 10:51:10 <lcuk> \o mornin lardman
May 13 10:51:43 <lardman> hi lcuk
May 13 10:52:35 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, do i understand correct that whole point of watchdog is to reboot device if battery charge controller feels bad?
May 13 10:52:37 <lardman> ah, the wonders of dwarf
May 13 10:53:23 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, i don't see why crashing X, for example, is so bad that reboot is required.
May 13 10:54:38 <slonopotamus> so if battery charger is written as kernel module, process wd isn't needed. no process but charger is so important that if it dies, immediate reset is required
May 13 10:55:22 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: If the device freezes because X crashed, the user doesn't know what to do.
May 13 10:55:36 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: So it just reboots to get it in working order again.
May 13 10:56:07 <lardman> if a certain kernel module contains functions such as kfree, amongst others, does that mean it's using GPL code (aka the kernel) and therefore the source ought to be available?
May 13 10:57:03 <lardman> s/contains/calls
May 13 10:57:09 <slonopotamus> X-Fade, ahha, welcome to reboot loops.
May 13 10:57:20 <slonopotamus> X-Fade, they are much more user-friendly
May 13 10:57:40 <RST38h> slonopotamus: Watchdog reboots device when it stops responding, in general
May 13 10:57:48 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: Well sure, but most of the time X freezes it is just because it crashed..
May 13 10:57:57 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: Not corrupted the fs.
May 13 10:58:18 <RST38h> slonopotamus: even without battery charger, your device may hang for some reason and this is when watcdog reboots it
May 13 10:58:33 <RST38h> slonopotamus: absolutely the same mechanism is used in Nokia's Symbian phones
May 13 10:59:07 <slonopotamus> RST38h, same applies to any computer device. most of them happily live without process wd.
May 13 10:59:29 <X-Fade> I'd rather have it reboot once than spinning the cpu at 100% when it is out of control and depleting the battery that way.
May 13 11:00:05 <slonopotamus> reboot loop = 100% cpu usage
May 13 11:00:23 <X-Fade> reboot loops are very rare.
May 13 11:00:41 <X-Fade> And when that happens, there is no rescue for regular users anyway.
May 13 11:01:50 <lardman> hopefully reboot loops will become a thing of the past for normal users with Fremantle
May 13 11:02:12 <lardman> what with separating out the desktop applet stuff from essential launcher functionality, etc
May 13 11:02:32 <slonopotamus> lardman, if fremantle has wd, it has a chance to go into reboot loop :)
May 13 11:02:57 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: What good has a device that doesn't respond?
May 13 11:03:01 <lardman> but it depends what causes the ui to hang though
May 13 11:03:36 <slonopotamus> X-Fade, how often does X hang for you (on desktop, for ex)?
May 13 11:04:05 <thux> btw when have to pull out battery, does it make fs dirty in this jffs case?
May 13 11:04:24 <lardman> thux: I think not as it's journalled and atomic
May 13 11:04:34 <thux> ok
May 13 11:04:50 <lardman> though sometimes you get hanging nodes, but it doesn't break the fs
May 13 11:04:52 <lardman> I think anyway
May 13 11:05:00 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: Depends, let's say a few times per month. And you don't want that with device when you are on the move.
May 13 11:05:15 <X-Fade> slonopotamus: And you can't expect a user to drop to the console and fix things.
May 13 11:05:40 <lardman> I never have X hang, it's always the desktop (usually the taskbar)
May 13 11:08:34 <slonopotamus> X-Fade, hang, not crash? because crashed x automatically restarts everywhere
May 13 11:13:25 <lcuk> slonopotamus, my laptop stops responding completely every now and then
May 13 11:13:32 * b-man leaves for school
May 13 11:13:52 <slonopotamus> lcuk, fsck /dev/hands ? :)
May 13 11:14:13 <lcuk> i dunno i cant click a menu cos the mouse froze
May 13 11:14:32 <lcuk> and shouldnt that be /dev/finger
May 13 11:15:33 <thux> in my lap strange option helped freezing
May 13 11:15:36 <lcuk> it used to be when the network broke, i think there was sometihng dodgy in the old driver i was using or the sshfs connection but thats a guess
May 13 11:16:20 <thux> clocksource=hpet helped me
May 13 11:17:19 <lcuk> the problem is "my laptop freezes" isnt a very clear bug report, do i send it to lenovo or to ubuntu or to any one of the 100 or so packages i was using at the time
May 13 11:17:49 <lcuk> so  i just reboot \@/
May 13 11:18:37 <lcuk> now,  if my windows box crashes i can get reasonable info on whats happening ;)
May 13 11:21:48 <lcuk> VDVsx, you bastard
May 13 11:21:58 <VDVsx> lcuk, hahahahah
May 13 11:22:11 <lcuk> :D
May 13 11:22:15 <lcuk> its a great thread
May 13 11:22:24 <VDVsx> lcuk, I know you want one
May 13 11:23:22 <lcuk> it does look cool with all of them there :)  i am biased, but think GeneralAntilles suits the star trek uniform better :D
May 13 11:24:48 <VDVsx> lcuk, one thing I learned from this thread, don't mess with penguinbait, he have great photoshop skills :P
May 13 11:25:31 <lcuk> agreed lol
May 13 11:45:14 * RST38h still thinks the council has to be suited in the new maemo.org design colors
May 13 11:45:20 <Stskeeps> then again
May 13 11:45:23 <Stskeeps> those suits are awesome.
May 13 11:45:24 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 11:45:37 <RST38h> + I want the sidebar hanging from their butts like a tail
May 13 11:46:01 <Stskeeps> whip out the photoshop, seems to be a good and humorous way to deal with the anger ;)
May 13 11:46:10 <crashanddie_> I think you made it quite clear now you really want to put the sidebar "up their arse", literally
May 13 11:46:30 <RST38h> crash: Not yet but as you see I am slowly getting there =)
May 13 11:47:12 <RST38h> krisse actually rises up a good topic: does Maemo need a mascot? =)
May 13 11:47:41 <Stskeeps> i vote for penguinbait on a stick
May 13 11:49:18 <lcuk> i dont, if the changeover had gone without mutiny i wouldv thought something was wrong, people are people and disagreements happen, but on the whole things are calming down now and  the mood in the forum seems to be calming down
May 13 11:49:35 <lcuk> tho we will have the "make a new poll" meme for pretty much everything for the next few months ;)
May 13 11:49:43 <Stskeeps> yeah, i understand the mutiny really
May 13 11:50:57 <lcuk> the biggest shock and improvement to the forums hasnt been the theme change or the sidebar or the polls about polls, it was finding out about the amazing ispy page that exists
May 13 11:51:17 <lcuk> it gives the same overview that i used to look on the frontpage for but i can leave it up and its live :)
May 13 11:51:58 <lcuk> ( http://talk.maemo.org/vaispy.php )
May 13 11:55:17 <lcuk> completely offtopic, is there a coders wiki anywhere, something with an indenting wysiwyg code editor (perhaps with code syntax coloring)
May 13 12:03:16 <RST38h> umgh
May 13 12:03:27 <RST38h> it is called Microsoft Studio .NET :)
May 13 12:04:01 <amoult> Has anyone done any QT development for Maemo?
May 13 12:04:20 <RST38h> iSpy "bold" posts look dead ugly i IE =)
May 13 12:04:30 <cosmo> amoult: yes
May 13 12:05:18 <amoult> Any pointers how I could set up autoconf/automake environment so it would play nicely with qmake
May 13 12:05:58 <lbt> amoult: Qt installs and runs nicely on Diablo and Mer
May 13 12:06:07 <amoult> yeah I know :)
May 13 12:06:41 <lbt> ah, gotcha, the full conftools setup
May 13 12:06:52 <lbt> try #qt ?
May 13 12:07:04 <lbt> I was wondering myself
May 13 12:07:11 <lcuk> RST38h, its just an alternative and it works nicely for me
May 13 12:07:20 <lbt> how to 'properly' package a Qt app and/or library
May 13 12:07:29 <lcuk> RST38h, and .net isnt exactly what im thinking
May 13 12:07:58 <cosmo> amoult: don't use autoconf/automake
May 13 12:08:14 <cosmo> just use qmake and debian/rules that build using it
May 13 12:08:53 <lcuk> if a decent enough web code editor could be made and code stored into a wiki it would be fun - just as an experiment of course :)
May 13 12:09:05 <RST38h> lcuk: guess what, such a thing exists
May 13 12:09:36 <RST38h> lcuk: http://robrohan.com/projects/9ne/
May 13 12:10:28 <lcuk> :D thanks RST38h
May 13 12:11:20 <amoult> Cosmo:  now I have two qmake project files, one for Maemo and one for Linux.
May 13 12:19:28 <amoult> I just want to take a look at the automake system to learn how to set it up, but would still like to retain ability to use qmake / QT Creator along with it
May 13 12:21:15 <cosmo> qmake and autotools do mostly the same thing
May 13 12:31:55 <amoult> yes mostly. It just would be nice to be able to run .configure with some options and have all set up to create package for different kind of targets
May 13 12:43:11 <GAN800> timeless, he doesn't care. It's intentional and out of spite.
May 13 12:49:27 <thux> irritating that wlan phone wlan doesn't work without sim card
May 13 12:49:58 <RST38h> what would be kept on a sim card in a wlan phone??
May 13 12:50:51 <lcuk> RST38h, your phone number for one thing
May 13 12:51:24 <RST38h> lcuk: AFAIK, sim cards do not store their corresponding phone numbers
May 13 12:51:46 <RST38h> lcuk: At least MTS cards do not: this data is only known to the central database
May 13 12:51:49 <lcuk> i never have to enter the number into my phones when i switch sims around
May 13 12:52:09 <RST38h> lcuk: Correct :) That is because your IMSI is stored on a sim card
May 13 12:52:14 <lcuk> yeah but the info is stored on the sim to lookup the number - to a user the phone number is stored there
May 13 12:52:38 <RST38h> lcuk: To a user yes, but not to a wlan phone unless this phone can access GSM network
May 13 12:53:12 <RST38h> lcuk: As a user, you need to call a special 4-digit number (for MTS) to find out the phone number corresponding to your card
May 13 12:53:18 <lcuk> just guessing here, but at some point wouldnt said phone have to talk with the phone companies themselves and hence register itself so it can get incoming calls?
May 13 12:53:32 <RST38h> Not wlan stuff
May 13 12:53:45 <lcuk> wlan cannot accept incoming calls?
May 13 12:53:50 <RST38h> Wlan phone only needs to register itself with the VoIP gateway to receove calls
May 13 12:54:07 <lcuk> but the voip  gateway needs to know your number ..
May 13 12:54:15 <RST38h> nope
May 13 12:54:20 <qgil> Hi, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=287038 Maemo Summit dates and venue!
May 13 12:54:26 <RST38h> VoIP gateway needs to know the IP :)
May 13 12:54:50 <andrewfblack> Well just checked the price for flying to Amsterdam
May 13 12:54:59 <qgil> http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009
May 13 12:55:02 <Stskeeps> qgil: fantastic :)
May 13 12:55:02 <RST38h> Ah, Amsterdam...
May 13 12:55:08 <lcuk> :D qgil
May 13 12:55:17 <RST38h> Andrew: Minimalist2? When? Please? =)
May 13 12:56:01 <qgil> I'm learning about multithreading these days, deciding a Summit venue in Amsterdam while pushing a hackfest in Copenhagen...  :)
May 13 12:56:21 <andrewfblack> RST38h: I've got to finish about a half a dozen little bugs, I'll try and finish it up today
May 13 12:56:32 <RST38h> ah
May 13 12:56:39 <RST38h> Andrew: thanks in advance though =)
May 13 12:56:51 <lcuk> qgil, are you wearing your pimped out costume to the hackfest? :D
May 13 12:57:12 <qgil> am I missing anything in that thread? I didn't even opened it...  :/
May 13 12:57:21 <VDVsx> qgil, omg
May 13 12:57:22 <Stskeeps> yes, you're missing out :)
May 13 12:57:24 <lcuk> with costumes like that we need a maemo backing track band!
May 13 12:57:32 <lcuk> lol qgil, its amazing!
May 13 12:57:39 <qgil> it says it's for council members, isn't it?
May 13 12:57:54 <lcuk> yes but somehow you got roped into it
May 13 12:58:24 <lcuk> i believe you even joined dr peppers lonely hearts band at some point too
May 13 12:58:41 <Stskeeps> at least it seems like community has mellowed out a little more now :)
May 13 12:58:48 <qgil> lemme see...
May 13 12:59:07 <lcuk> yeah :) light hearted ribbing
May 13 12:59:26 <lcuk> anyway,bbl compilings done here
May 13 12:59:59 <roope> light ribbing - for her pleasure.
May 13 13:01:06 <qgil> hey, I ws not aware of my avatar having CC license...
May 13 13:01:14 <RST38h> qgil: I am not sure you want to open THAT thread
May 13 13:01:19 <qgil> too late
May 13 13:01:39 <RST38h> At least put the food away if eating
May 13 13:01:50 <qgil> too late
May 13 13:01:52 <qgil> ;)
May 13 13:02:10 <qgil> so what are these 90 posts about
May 13 13:02:32 <X-Fade> Too much time on their hands?
May 13 13:02:38 <lcuk> community relaxing and having a laugh :)
May 13 13:03:14 <RST38h> qgil: Is there some definite schedule for the Amsterdam event already? With the talk topics, etc.?
May 13 13:04:03 <X-Fade> RST38h: lol, this is the first mention of the summit ;)
May 13 13:04:35 <X-Fade> Almost half a year away..
May 13 13:05:02 <RST38h> X-Fade: Maybe I am just approaching it from a different direction...
May 13 13:05:24 <X-Fade> RST38h: All the cool topic now, can be boring then?
May 13 13:05:29 <X-Fade> And vice versa ;_
May 13 13:06:15 <VDVsx> RST38h, one of the topics should be Harmattan, by the announcement
May 13 13:06:23 <qgil> RST38h: there is no schedule for Copenhagen in 2 weeks, leave alone Amsterdam in 5 months...
May 13 13:06:33 <RST38h> VDVsx: =) With OFono, as promised by Quim =)
May 13 13:06:46 <VDVsx> RST38h, lol
May 13 13:07:06 <inz> ofono only includes at-code this far :(
May 13 13:07:27 <qgil> RST38h: watch out before someone quotes you quoting me wrongly  :)
May 13 13:07:43 <Stskeeps> and takes blurry pictures of the conversation
May 13 13:08:34 <RST38h> qgil: Ah, I am purposely spreading rumors!
May 13 13:08:56 <RST38h> inz: Nothing wrong with at-code, that is how most baseband chips talk to their masters
May 13 13:09:01 <VDVsx> Stskeeps, talking about blurry pictures, I count on you for the blurry pictures of the fremantle device at DK :P
May 13 13:09:24 <andrewfblack> I'll be more then happy to talk about anything anyone wants me to for a free ride there just checked pricing to fly there
May 13 13:09:36 <RST38h> inz: So, ideally, you would be able to replace the bottom of oFono stack with any generic baseband hardware
May 13 13:09:39 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: hey, i thought the xray of lcuk's finger was the new device..
May 13 13:10:19 <Stskeeps> but was rather confused it had a broken finger on it ;)
May 13 13:11:52 <VDVsx> Stskeeps, yeah, I suspect lcuk already have one of those devices, and the finger story as just a distraction move :P
May 13 13:14:06 <roope> Yeah, they currently only work on artificial finger styluses.
May 13 13:14:53 <RST38h> Stskeeps: A blurry picture of Q7 named n915.gif and placed at one of those Chinese forums
May 13 13:14:55 <qgil> VDVsx: I took a blurry picture, but it was in Amsterdam: http://www.flickr.com/photos/quimgil/3527500913/
May 13 13:15:04 <RST38h> Stskeeps: it will do wonders on iTT, believe me...
May 13 13:16:46 * andrewfblack needs to get motivated to finish minimalist 2.0
May 13 13:16:57 <VDVsx> qgil, need some painting :P
May 13 13:16:59 <X-Fade> For laughs, try to pronounce all these room names ;)
May 13 13:17:13 <qgil> "De Capel"
May 13 13:17:13 <RST38h> The picture looks like a monastery
May 13 13:17:17 <qgil> ;)
May 13 13:17:24 <RST38h> Should we expects monks or nuns?
May 13 13:17:35 <Stskeeps> RST38h: should really have renamed this video: http://blip.tv/file/2107449/ and posted it through translate.google.com ..
May 13 13:17:57 <Stskeeps> and write "omg no dpad" or something
May 13 13:17:57 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 13:18:05 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Do it!
May 13 13:19:15 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Although you may want to change Mer theme to something darker - lots of people have seen Mer already + they expect Fremantle to have a dark theme
May 13 13:19:24 <Stskeeps> RST38h: that's qtablet, heh :P
May 13 13:21:23 <VDVsx> X-Fade, if I'm in front the centeral station, for each side is the venue ?
May 13 13:21:30 <lcuk> heh @ finger conspiracies,  Stskeeps the touchscreen seems about as responsive as my old one, graphics are nice and quick tho :D
May 13 13:21:33 <RST38h> Stskeeps: even better as it would generate more conspiracy theories
May 13 13:21:33 <Stskeeps> i really have way too much equipment on my table atm: smartq, n800, freerunner, 770, n800 with wobbly lcd, ti83plus, and a fonera router..
May 13 13:21:41 <X-Fade> VDVsx: ?
May 13 13:21:54 <RST38h> What is the screen size of the Freerunner?
May 13 13:22:09 <Stskeeps> 480x640 in standard pose
May 13 13:22:13 <RST38h> And can I have a rom dump out of that 83+? Please?
May 13 13:22:27 <Stskeeps> a
May 13 13:22:28 <RST38h> Sts: Ok, so that guy who wanted to port ati there still has a chance
May 13 13:22:28 <Stskeeps> h
May 13 13:22:29 <Stskeeps> it's a ti84+
May 13 13:22:34 <RST38h> Even better
May 13 13:22:41 <VDVsx> X-Fade, I thought you are Dutch and knew amsterdam :)
May 13 13:23:06 <X-Fade> VDVsx: Well, I do but your question didn't make sense.
May 13 13:23:55 <VDVsx> X-Fade, yah, a lot of typos :(
May 13 13:24:52 <X-Fade> VDVsx: http://tinyurl.com/qk3h3b
May 13 13:25:28 <X-Fade> 2.5 km from central station. Not that bad.
May 13 13:25:44 <lcuk> Stskeeps, get some proper benchmarks on those systems, obviously its a step down by lacking the keyboard and camera and stuff, but has potential for general machine
May 13 13:25:55 <lcuk> smartq^
May 13 13:26:24 <VDVsx> X-Fade, thanks, now I'm located :), never been in this part of the city, I guess
May 13 13:27:19 <RST38h> Stskeeps: There is a program that you can run to dump it: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/373/37341.html
May 13 13:27:27 <lcuk> Stskeeps, is it deep? could you easily hang it on the wall, i know the 7" is larger and more rounded back and technically less capable
May 13 13:27:51 <lcuk> (but more as wanted)
May 13 13:36:48 <VDVsx> lcuk, about the finger conspiracy - I still don't get how a door can do that much damage, I think we don't have those kind of evil doors in my country :)
May 13 13:37:39 <RST38h> VDVsx: I think you need to visit scp-wiki.wikidot.com to get into the right mood for that =)
May 13 13:38:24 <X-Fade> qgil: Do I create the event in events, or do you? :)
May 13 13:38:50 <VDVsx> RST38h, lol
May 13 13:38:59 <qgil> X-Fade: be my gest since I'm about to turn off the computer
May 13 13:39:08 <X-Fade> qgil: Ok, no problem.
May 13 13:39:21 <qgil> thanks!
May 13 13:39:28 <qgil> ah, before I leave
May 13 13:39:47 <qgil> X-Fade: I think you are thinking too complex stuff for integrating tmo as infra for comments
May 13 13:40:04 <X-Fade> qgil: We need to discuss it some more.
May 13 13:40:07 <man_in_pda> question
May 13 13:40:26 <X-Fade> qgil: As I think that just adding a link to comments and not displaying them on the site is a loss of functionality.
May 13 13:40:26 <RST38h> no.
May 13 13:41:04 <X-Fade> qgil: Same for not being able to comment directly on the page where you are..
May 13 13:41:29 <qgil> everybody loves arstechnica and the comments there are many and of good quality, worth reading (at least compared to other erm popular IT blogs)
May 13 13:41:32 <qgil> yet look http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/05/wifi-goes-gigabit-but-wont-go-through-walls.ars
May 13 13:41:54 <X-Fade> qgil: THey have banners to display ;)
May 13 13:41:58 <qgil> they don't even tell you how many comments
May 13 13:42:09 <X-Fade> qgil: They need the click throughs.
May 13 13:42:19 <qgil> "Click here to view the comments on this article -->"
May 13 13:42:34 <RST38h> qgil: Same happens on dpreview and other sites
May 13 13:42:47 <X-Fade> I think that displaying comments directly under the article _adds_ to the informational value of the page.
May 13 13:42:58 <qgil> meh
May 13 13:43:05 <X-Fade> qgil: Especially in brainstorm case btw ;)
May 13 13:43:14 <qgil> in exchange we get a platform that really invites to make comments, as opposed to the current comments
May 13 13:43:17 <RST38h> I think the reasoning is that just a small number of people would actually discuss an article so showing comments right away is not essential
May 13 13:43:19 <aquatix> dailywtf does the same
May 13 13:43:56 <aquatix> not sure what showing comments does to loading time?
May 13 13:44:13 <RST38h> It is a nice-to-have feature, i.e. if it does not cost users anything, it is worth having
May 13 13:44:39 <aquatix> it makes the page bigger
May 13 13:44:49 <VDVsx> agree with X-fade, personally don't like pages that hide the comments, and never read them because I'm lazy enough to not click the button
May 13 13:44:51 <RST38h> But if it takes some important screen estate from other things, just have a link
May 13 13:44:52 <aquatix> more KB's on you mobile :)
May 13 13:45:04 <qgil> X-Fade: a brainstorm page with 1 idea and 2/3 solutions is already quite useful per se
May 13 13:45:11 <RST38h> aquatix: That too :(
May 13 13:45:14 <aquatix> but i like having the comments directly though
May 13 13:45:16 <X-Fade> aquatix: Yeah, but if you want to read the comments it takes twice the time ;)
May 13 13:45:29 <qgil> as I see it, getting rid of current Midgard comments and connecting to tmo fixes many problems and is worth doing
May 13 13:45:31 <aquatix> X-Fade: well, dailywtf skips the article then, for example
May 13 13:45:34 <RST38h> X-Fade: That assumes that everybody wants to read the comments
May 13 13:45:37 <aquatix> but i don't really like that
May 13 13:45:38 <qgil> then having comments on page is an enhancement
May 13 13:45:46 <X-Fade> aquatix: As the latency for a request is worse on mobile.
May 13 13:45:59 <qgil> between Midgard comments in page or tmo comments at tmo only, I would persnally prefer the second option
May 13 13:46:11 <RST38h> X-Fade: So, if at least 50-70% want that then "yes", otherwise if it does not cost anything then still "yes", otherwise4 "no"
May 13 13:47:09 <qgil> I think it's fair to assume that for Downloads and even Brainstorm the majority of users go there to read and make one click (download or up/down)
May 13 13:47:37 <X-Fade> qgil: I really think that comments add value to the product description in downloads.
May 13 13:47:49 <X-Fade> qgil: But maybe that is just me?
May 13 13:47:52 <qgil> sure
May 13 13:48:03 <qgil> they are 1 click away for the users, or... how many hours for Reggie and you?
May 13 13:48:55 <X-Fade> Well, it is going to be a lot of work to implement correctly ;)
May 13 13:49:12 <qgil> and because tmo is all about comments, at the end they offer a better value for users than an infra for comments that is not really inviting
May 13 13:49:13 <X-Fade> And we need to provide back links etc..
May 13 13:49:26 <X-Fade> Bouncing between two websites can get confusing.
May 13 13:49:40 <RST38h> qgil: Can I complain about Downloads please?
May 13 13:49:45 <qgil> that is my point, it doesn't seem to confure Ars people
May 13 13:50:03 <X-Fade> qgil: Well, that is is the same site.
May 13 13:50:09 <qgil> RST38h: the poor X-Fade, give him a break  :)
May 13 13:50:22 <RST38h> qgil: Naah, I want to complain to you :)
May 13 13:50:39 <RST38h> qgil: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4369
May 13 13:50:40 <qgil> X-Fade: for the user bmo and tmo or dmo are also the same site
May 13 13:51:16 <qgil> RST38h: I have nothing to do with this  :)
May 13 13:51:19 <qgil> I warned you
May 13 13:51:21 <RST38h> qgil: I do not know who made that decision and why, do remember complaining about it during some Sprint but it changed nothing
May 13 13:51:28 <X-Fade> qgil: Ok, but we don't have any user sync. So people can't comment without talk account.
May 13 13:51:53 <X-Fade> There are all these little details that make the experience ugly, in my view.
May 13 13:52:00 <qgil> X-Fade: I never said you were wrong by saying that SSOP is a dependency  :)
May 13 13:52:07 <qgil> SSO
May 13 13:52:27 <RST38h> qgil: At least comment something there - isn't it ridiculous that the Downloads page shows just two apps, not the normal lists of latest/hottest apps?
May 13 13:52:28 <X-Fade> My guess is that SSO and account merge is months away still.
May 13 13:53:21 <RST38h> Same for the main page although it looks more and more like the lost cause
May 13 13:53:40 <qgil> RST38h: I really have nothing to do with this  :)
May 13 13:54:23 <RST38h> Eh...
May 13 13:54:35 <X-Fade> RST38h: user.css -> #application-blocks1{display:none}
May 13 13:54:58 <qgil> X-Fade: mmmm... now you got me there
May 13 13:55:22 <qgil> X-Fade: so the question would be whether we want to have brainstorm sooner and with own comments, or later with comments integrated?
May 13 13:55:42 <qgil> X-Fade: mmmm... perhaps the second option, if you ask me
May 13 13:55:44 <X-Fade> qgil: If you launch it, there is no way back easily.
May 13 13:55:58 <qgil> X-Fade: yeah, I know, that's why
May 13 13:56:03 <X-Fade> qgil: Converting the existing comments is goin to be hell ;)
May 13 13:56:09 <qgil> sure
May 13 13:56:34 <qgil> then we need to look better to that SSO schedula and that brainstorm schedule
May 13 13:56:55 <qgil> I really believe it makes a whole difference for a brainstorm to happen in tmo or not
May 13 13:56:57 <X-Fade> And we need to do a lot of work to implement the new comment thread creation signaling in downloads, news and brainstorm too.
May 13 13:57:18 <qgil> downloads and news can wait or perhaops not do it ever, since they currently exist
May 13 13:57:23 <qgil> but brainstorm is different
May 13 13:57:40 <X-Fade> Yes, brainstorm can be a test case, but -> SSO
May 13 13:58:04 <qgil> anyway, I don't want to be the showstopper either, but at least this is honestly what I think
May 13 13:58:18 <X-Fade> Well once we actually have SSO and account merge, we could bring over comments.
May 13 13:58:21 <lardman> hi Quim
May 13 13:58:32 <X-Fade> But it needs some thought.
May 13 13:59:24 <qgil> X-Fade: anyway we haven't discussed whether we want to move the current enhancement requests from bugzilla
May 13 13:59:35 <qgil> if so, that would take time before posting a first comment
May 13 13:59:45 <X-Fade> qgil: We haven't even discussed if we want to have comments in talk ;)
May 13 13:59:46 <qgil> but I'm not sure that is a good idea.....
May 13 13:59:50 <X-Fade> But ;)
May 13 14:00:03 <qgil> anyway, too m uch thinking today
May 13 14:00:17 <qgil> let's talk (or comment) in Copenhagen
May 13 14:00:32 <X-Fade> Yeah, let's sketch out some plan.
May 13 14:01:00 <X-Fade> tekojo: are you coming too?
May 13 14:01:09 <X-Fade> Hmm he is gone.. ;)
May 13 14:01:14 <qgil> I'll try to pull an estimate for SSO from Daniel/Tero (and then we add 2 months more)
May 13 14:01:28 <qgil> I don't think he is coming
May 13 14:01:58 <qgil> bye!
May 13 14:02:05 <qgil> (hi lardman ) :)
May 13 14:04:49 * lardman tries to do some day job work rather than translating as,
May 13 14:04:52 <lardman> asm even
May 13 14:06:46 <lardman> ah cool, summit dates :)
May 13 14:06:58 <lardman> amazing what you miss over lunch
May 13 14:09:11 <fiferboy> lbt: Do the i386 Qt files in the mer repository work?
May 13 14:09:24 <man_in_pda> why does removing a 3.5 meg package in app manager only free about 1 meg? :(
May 13 14:09:53 <X-Fade> man_in_pda: Because some libs are also used by another package?
May 13 14:10:41 <man_in_pda> trying to work out how i can clean up my /
May 13 14:11:03 <man_in_pda> i wouldn't mind putting apps on the internal sd card
May 13 14:11:10 <lardman> jffsw is also compressed
May 13 14:11:24 <lardman> s/jffsw/jffs2
May 13 14:12:03 <man_in_pda> not got much space left on / here :(
May 13 14:12:39 <lardman> I meant that the amount of spaced used by a package proboably won't be what it reports
May 13 14:12:57 * lardman gives up typing for the day, fingers not working very well
May 13 14:13:47 <lbt> fiferboy: should do
May 13 14:13:51 <X-Fade> while a package might have 3MB of files on an uncompressed fs, it can only use 1MB of actual disk space.
May 13 14:14:10 <man_in_pda> ok
May 13 14:14:39 <RST38h> man_in_pda: You asked two questions: 1) why freeing 3.5MB does not immediately free 3.5MB in / and 2) how to free /
May 13 14:14:44 <aquatix> oh, / is compressed?
May 13 14:14:48 <aquatix> didn't know that
May 13 14:14:49 <RST38h> man_in_pda: Which answer do you want first?
May 13 14:15:36 <lbt> fiferboy: please let me know if they don't (nb they're for Ubuntu)
May 13 14:15:42 <man_in_pda> 2nd
May 13 14:16:11 <man_in_pda> i'm satisfied with answers so far to #1
May 13 14:16:30 <RST38h> man_in_pda: Remove user manuals shipped by Nokia, remove sample images, music, and video, remove unused locales
May 13 14:16:57 <RST38h> man_in_pda: Reboot the tablet, it will make jffs free space it has "put away"
May 13 14:17:01 <fiferboy> I installed them in Fremantle i386, but my build failed against them (libQtGui.so error)
May 13 14:17:22 <RST38h> man_in_pda: This way you will get the real number of how much space you have left in /
May 13 14:17:25 <man_in_pda> ooh ok
May 13 14:17:37 <man_in_pda> cya lata then
May 13 14:18:59 <lardman> I've always wondered if there's another way to trigger jffs2 to do that, any ideas?
May 13 14:20:41 <X-Fade> lardman: Doesn't the fs need to be in RO mode for that?
May 13 14:20:49 <lardman> dunno
May 13 14:20:58 <RST38h> probably not
May 13 14:21:04 <RST38h> Give me a moment to search
May 13 14:21:07 <lardman> I can't see why though, as the jffs2 stuff sits below everything else
May 13 14:21:12 <fiferboy> lbt: Do you know what version of libfontconfig you built the Qt libs against?
May 13 14:21:20 <fiferboy> I'm guessing 2.4.2
May 13 14:21:21 <lardman> nah, actually I think if the fs runs out of space a reshuffle is forced
May 13 14:21:34 <lardman> so that would be mounted RW at that point
May 13 14:21:50 <RST38h> lardman: correct
May 13 14:22:17 <lbt> fiferboy: build log says : installing fontconfig-config-2.6.0-1ubuntu12.all
May 13 14:22:59 <lbt> libfontconfig1-2.6.0-1ubuntu12.armel
May 13 14:23:33 <fiferboy> Okay, Fremantle only has version 2.4.1
May 13 14:23:56 <lbt> heh, Mer is Ubuntu9.04
May 13 14:24:27 <lbt> I don't think we can setup a Fremantle builder on OBS
May 13 14:25:45 <fiferboy> I'll just have to build against the old version and run with the new version in scratchbox
May 13 14:26:28 <fiferboy> Maybe incompatible library versions are the reason I get CPU spikes on the device in Diablo
May 13 14:27:09 <RST38h> lardman: garbage collection daemon is jffs2_gcd_mtd2
May 13 14:27:24 <RST38h> lardman: has no manpage so there is no way to say what the options are
May 13 14:27:43 <Bobbe> (asked this in #nitdroid, but I don't think anybody is there). Is there any way I can install nitdroid and keep being able to boot my maemo / cloned maemo? Or does it wipe my whole bootmenu to the point of no repair?
May 13 14:28:06 <lardman> RST38h: yeah, is it a kernel thing?
May 13 14:28:17 <RST38h> nope
May 13 14:28:52 <RST38h> lardman: white paper and sources: http://sources.redhat.com/jffs2/
May 13 14:29:00 <lardman> ah, push back the hacked pvr.ko by a day, going to the cinema tonight
May 13 14:29:22 <lardman> at least Quim saw fit to give me another month to get it finished by putting the summit in Oct :)
May 13 14:29:49 <RST38h> lardman: WAIT
May 13 14:29:57 <RST38h> lardman: Is it OMAP2 version? =)
May 13 14:30:04 <lardman> what's that?
May 13 14:30:08 <lardman> pvr?
May 13 14:30:09 <lardman> yes
May 13 14:30:14 * RST38h hugs lardman
May 13 14:30:26 <X-Fade> RST38h: Has been there for a very long time.
May 13 14:30:29 <lardman> not yet, lots of asm-translating still to go
May 13 14:30:29 <RST38h> How did you get the hold of documentation?
May 13 14:30:34 <X-Fade> RST38h: But didn't work.
May 13 14:30:48 <lardman> RST38h: I didn't, just DWARF data + ASM
May 13 14:30:51 <RST38h> X-Fade: I remember the initial thing which was mostly a stub
May 13 14:31:40 <RST38h> lardman: So, what does it do then?
May 13 14:31:53 <lardman> nothing, it's just notes atm
May 13 14:31:55 <man_in_pda> yay
May 13 14:32:09 <lardman> I've converted something like 6 fns
May 13 14:32:13 <man_in_pda> now has 15MB on / :P
May 13 14:32:37 <lardman> have to finish the other 273, then sort out arguments, plumb in any globals shown in the DRAWF data, see if it will compile, etc
May 13 14:32:45 <RST38h> oh
May 13 14:32:53 <lardman> I really can't type today
May 13 14:33:04 <lardman> 10 weeks I reckon
May 13 14:33:12 <RST38h> should have almost the whole OGL API...
May 13 14:33:35 <lardman> no, this is just the kernel driver, then the ARM-side support lib and the OGL lib also need to be done
May 13 14:33:50 <RST38h> except for the most ludicrous thigns, not included into OGL ES
May 13 14:34:06 <RST38h> oh^2
May 13 14:36:13 <lardman> why the negativity, keep your chin up etc :)
May 13 14:37:34 <lardman> ~lart FDE code
May 13 14:37:34 * infobot stamps FDE code on the forehead with the official Troll marker
May 13 14:38:46 <RST38h> lardman: just imagining the sheer number of things you will have to do =)
May 13 14:39:02 <man_in_pda> hmm
May 13 14:39:50 <man_in_pda> should i kill/murder maemo-supplied "map" program? :P
May 13 14:40:00 <fiferboy> lbt: Are your changes all in the libqtgui4 package?
May 13 14:40:14 <lardman> what would life be without a challenge to get stuck into...? :)
May 13 14:40:32 <lbt> yes
May 13 14:40:52 <irgsomething> are there any dsp developers?
May 13 14:40:56 <fiferboy> I wonder if there is a way just to build that package to speed things up
May 13 14:41:05 <irgsomething> im searching for some kind of RTA
May 13 14:41:05 <lardman> irgsomething: yes
May 13 14:41:21 <lardman> RTA?
May 13 14:41:24 <lbt> yes
May 13 14:41:38 <lbt> I build the packages fully; then I go into the chroot
May 13 14:41:41 <irgsomething> real time analysis??
May 13 14:41:46 <lbt> to src/gui
May 13 14:41:49 <lbt> and do a make
May 13 14:41:57 <irgsomething> some kind of spectrum analyzer
May 13 14:42:01 <lbt> that produces ../../lib/libQtGui.so.4.5.0
May 13 14:42:14 <lbt> which I scp over to /usr/lib on the tablet
May 13 14:42:16 <lardman> irgsomething: ah I see, so you're wondering about an app rather than some feature
May 13 14:42:17 <lardman> ?
May 13 14:42:30 <irgsomething> so it is
May 13 14:42:38 <fiferboy> lbt: Excellent
May 13 14:42:48 <lardman> irgsomething: in which case the answer is no, but I can't see any problems with implementing a short-time FFT on the device
May 13 14:42:49 <lbt> when I'm happy I diff the code (actually I setup a git tree in the chroot)
May 13 14:42:58 <lbt> and apply patches to the main repo
May 13 14:43:11 <fiferboy> I see you fixed the scrollbar issue
May 13 14:43:12 <lbt> then rebuild it all
May 13 14:43:14 <lardman> irgsomething: write a wrapper and I'll look at implementing the DSP code for you
May 13 14:43:19 <lbt> yes :)
May 13 14:43:22 <Stskeeps> heh
May 13 14:43:27 <lardman> where wrapper is the ARM-side app to pass data in and out
May 13 14:43:29 <lbt> but Antonio's other points are... interesting
May 13 14:43:36 <irgsomething> ok, i will see what can be done
May 13 14:43:39 <Stskeeps> professor at my uni made an announcement on the Maemo/Mozilla developer weekend :>
May 13 14:43:49 <lbt> heh
May 13 14:43:53 <lbt> you said... ?
May 13 14:43:53 <fiferboy> I think his maximum velocity must mean when flicked, not when following the finger
May 13 14:43:59 <Stskeeps> i wonder if any of the people i know from my work will show up and be astonished what i actually do .. :>
May 13 14:44:03 <irgsomething> thanks
May 13 14:44:07 <lbt> I hope so... that's what I intend
May 13 14:44:11 <lardman> irgsomething: if you know how you want to write the code I can just sort out the link code for you, if you provide the analysis fn too, up to you
May 13 14:44:18 <fiferboy> That should be pretty easy
May 13 14:44:32 <lbt> yep... it is
May 13 14:44:46 <lbt> just need to make sure it's independent of refresh rate
May 13 14:44:56 <fiferboy> The overshoot would probably be the hardest, I think.
May 13 14:44:59 <lbt> also might up the refresh rate for GL
May 13 14:45:05 <lbt> yeah - that's scary
May 13 14:45:12 <fiferboy> I don't know about the scroll-by-item
May 13 14:45:13 <irgsomething> i will get deeper in that arm wrapper thing and will text you, if im ready
May 13 14:45:21 <lardman> irgsomething: n-point fft is a built-in macro so no need to do that bit, just the time shifting business (which I'll have to look up myself)
May 13 14:45:23 <lbt> TBH I think that is a bad decision
May 13 14:45:38 <lbt> the API allows the developer to select scr-by-item
May 13 14:45:45 <lbt> so we should not override them
May 13 14:45:52 <lbt> and
May 13 14:46:01 <lardman> irgsomething: I meant just a basic C fn to read a file and to display the output data, comms with the dsp is by writing and reading from a dev entry
May 13 14:46:09 <lbt> it breaks the ability to set min/max on scrollbars (I think)
May 13 14:46:18 <lardman> or by a shared memory mapped "file"
May 13 14:46:29 <lbt> so scroll->min(0) scroll->max(10)...
May 13 14:46:58 <irgsomething> ?
May 13 14:46:59 <lbt> I'd have to grub around in the internals and completely break the (correct) loose coupling]
May 13 14:46:59 <fiferboy> Maybe you could just really slow down scrolling when s-b-i is enabled.  Right now it just shoots by in a single frame
May 13 14:47:15 <lbt> actually I need to see an example
May 13 14:47:28 <lbt> I may misunderstand the issue
May 13 14:47:37 <fiferboy> All the list demos use scroll by item
May 13 14:47:47 <lardman> irgsomething: what's the application anyway?
May 13 14:47:50 <lbt> qtdemo ?
May 13 14:47:55 <fiferboy> Yes
May 13 14:48:01 <lbt> they all work nicely for me
May 13 14:48:14 <lbt> they 'step' of course
May 13 14:48:17 <fiferboy> When I used flickcharm with scroll-by-item it would scroll to the bottom just about instantly
May 13 14:48:18 <lbt> hmm
May 13 14:48:23 <lbt> yes
May 13 14:48:26 <lbt> it's broken
May 13 14:48:37 <lbt> mine doesn't do that (I hope!)
May 13 14:48:53 <fiferboy> I'll re-enable it on birdlist and try it on the tablet.
May 13 14:49:05 <fiferboy> It is REALLY noticable then (due to the large rows)
May 13 14:49:05 <lbt> send me the binaries BTW
May 13 14:49:14 <lbt> I've been to busy to build it
May 13 14:49:18 <fiferboy> Will do.
May 13 14:49:19 <lbt> :(
May 13 14:49:26 <irgsomething> lardman: please descripe me what this sentence means?
May 13 14:50:01 <irgsomething> i got no clue
May 13 14:50:09 <fiferboy> lbt: Do you just need armel, or do you want both?
May 13 14:50:11 <lardman> irgsomething: I meant how will you want to use the app?
May 13 14:50:19 <lbt> armel... 386 was OK
May 13 14:50:22 <irgsomething> ah
May 13 14:50:27 <lardman> analysis of ambient sound, currently playing music, some arbitrary file containing data, etc
May 13 14:50:31 <irgsomething> just gui
May 13 14:50:51 <irgsomething> for ambient sound
May 13 14:51:30 <fiferboy> lbt: Sent.
May 13 14:51:34 <lbt> ta
May 13 14:51:37 <irgsomething> with 1/3 octave view, if possible
May 13 14:51:39 <lardman> on the current devices it's not possible to access the mic directly, so you'll have to loop the pcm data through the ARM and back to the DSP, not very efficient
May 13 14:51:51 <irgsomething> ok
May 13 14:51:52 <lardman> but doable
May 13 14:51:53 <irgsomething> got it
May 13 14:51:56 <lardman> can you program>
May 13 14:51:57 <lardman> ?
May 13 14:52:12 <irgsomething> just a little bits
May 13 14:52:21 <lardman> prepare to learn
May 13 14:52:25 <lardman> :)
May 13 14:52:37 <irgsomething> got c learn from univrsity
May 13 14:52:48 <irgsomething> i got time
May 13 14:52:49 <lardman> how do you wish to visualise the fft stuff?
May 13 14:53:01 <irgsomething> just some graph
May 13 14:53:06 <irgsomething> or bars
May 13 14:53:17 <lardman> right
May 13 14:53:23 <irgsomething> the simplest method
May 13 14:54:05 <lardman> ok, you on here usually?
May 13 14:54:06 <irgsomething> im interested in the level-difference between one freq. and another
May 13 14:54:26 <irgsomething> yes, im
May 13 14:54:51 <lardman> good good, well I'll have a look at it on Friday evening/Sat morning
May 13 14:55:07 <irgsomething> ok, thank you first
May 13 14:55:10 * lardman makes note to work out how to do a STFFT
May 13 14:55:13 <lardman> np
May 13 14:55:41 <irgsomething> is there a possibility to record a wav? file and fft that??
May 13 14:55:57 <fiferboy> lbt: hildon-pannable-area draws an extra rectangle when required for overshoot in the expose event
May 13 14:55:58 <lardman> yeah that's probably the easiest way to start actually
May 13 14:56:36 <lbt> fiferboy: got distracted by numptyphysics port
May 13 14:56:42 <lbt> back now...
May 13 14:56:43 <irgsomething> that would be fine
May 13 14:56:56 <fiferboy> numptyphysics distracted me a lot a while ago
May 13 14:57:02 <irgsomething> so, where should i start?
May 13 14:57:22 <lardman> basic C program to read in a wav file
May 13 14:57:34 <lardman> and some code to display a gui and display data
May 13 14:58:06 <irgsomething> ok
May 13 14:58:13 <lardman> the DSP will accept chunks of data of whatever length you/we decide and perform an fft on them, then pass back the complex coefficients
May 13 14:58:24 * irgsomething will start to learn guipro.
May 13 14:58:49 <lardman> so you can stick in some pseudo code to open() then in a loop write() and then read() from a dev entry
May 13 14:59:15 <irgsomething> ok, so long
May 13 14:59:22 <lardman> otoh, it might be better to process a buffer of data, as the ffts need to overlap iirc, that would be easier on the dstgateway I think
May 13 14:59:31 <lardman> anyway we'll cross that bridge when we get to it :)
May 13 14:59:55 * lardman wonders what guipro is
May 13 15:00:10 <irgsomething> gui programming
May 13 15:00:22 <fiferboy> lbt: The rectangle would shrink over time as the overshoot event goes on
May 13 15:00:55 <lardman> ah ok, I thought it was some tool
May 13 15:01:25 <lardman> irgsomething: python might work, assuming you can open dev entries with it
May 13 15:01:43 <fiferboy> lbt: QAbstractScrollArea has a protected function "setViewPortMargins"
May 13 15:01:52 <fiferboy> Can you access protected functions from your code?
May 13 15:02:19 <lbt> yes
May 13 15:02:35 * irgsomething will learn python, too
May 13 15:02:45 <lopz> hola
May 13 15:02:58 <fiferboy> You sould be able to add a margin to the (top|bottom|right|left) that decreases over time.
May 13 15:03:35 <fiferboy> I _think_ that would work, but it would need to be tried out
May 13 15:04:21 <lbt> let me look
May 13 15:04:38 <fiferboy> ok
May 13 15:05:58 <irgsomething> lardman: first i will get recording to work, than call ?mathjinni? to plot some function
May 13 15:06:04 <fiferboy> lbt: You code absolutely does work for scroll-by-item!
May 13 15:06:07 <fiferboy> Very nice!
May 13 15:06:33 <irgsomething> then i will text you to fft the data
May 13 15:06:50 <lbt> I think Antonio doesn't like that it 'skips'
May 13 15:07:04 <fiferboy> Really?  That seems like a very small issue
May 13 15:07:09 <lbt> I think he'd like each 'skip' to be animated
May 13 15:07:24 <lbt> which would be cool on  dual-core openGL system....
May 13 15:07:38 <Stskeeps> dual gore gl for n900! :P
May 13 15:07:45 <lbt> and insane on an N800 ;)
May 13 15:08:07 <lbt> Stskeeps: drop it from 10m and it'll have a dual core...
May 13 15:08:16 <Stskeeps> i still want that vmware for n8x0..
May 13 15:08:36 <fiferboy> Doesn't the scrollbar skip in the same way with s-b-i?
May 13 15:08:50 <lbt> dunno... you tell me :)
May 13 15:08:56 <lbt> (hope so!)
May 13 15:09:12 <fiferboy> It looks the same to me.
May 13 15:09:19 <lbt> good
May 13 15:09:36 <lbt> how do we say WONTFIX then ;O
May 13 15:09:46 <fiferboy> Maybe Antonio's issue is that it is hard to see that it is coasting to a stop
May 13 15:09:58 <lbt> yeah, that can look wierd
May 13 15:10:11 <lbt> all ok and then suddenly a jump
May 13 15:10:21 <lbt> as it passes the threshold
May 13 15:10:27 <crashanddie_> dneary: I do speak dutch and can try to place a few calls during business hours as long as my involvement is not too excessive (I do have a job, and would like to keep it that way)
May 13 15:11:27 <fiferboy> I thought the problem was much more severe, like FlickCharm.  This is WAY better, if not as smooth as scroll-by-pixel
May 13 15:11:48 <lbt> hmm
May 13 15:11:54 <dneary> Thanks for the offer Crash
May 13 15:11:55 <lbt> animation and bounce
May 13 15:11:58 <lbt> hmm
May 13 15:12:19 <dneary> I'm going to list you as a Dutch speaker volunteer on the wiki
May 13 15:12:40 <Macer> lol
May 13 15:12:49 <dneary> In fact, Dutch speakers aren't really that necessary - in my experience, everyone in Dutchland speaks Englandish
May 13 15:13:04 <Macer> englandish?
May 13 15:13:06 <Macer> =)
May 13 15:13:39 <Macer> do they teach it in school?
May 13 15:14:08 <Stskeeps> better than singlish
May 13 15:14:11 <lardman> irgsomething: sounds reasonable
May 13 15:14:27 <lardman> irgsomething: what frequency range do you want to display?
May 13 15:14:51 <Macer> dutchland? =)
May 13 15:15:00 <irgsomething> 20Hz -20kHz if possible
May 13 15:15:01 <Macer> heh
May 13 15:15:23 <irgsomething> i will testthe mikrophone
May 13 15:18:52 <crashanddie_> dneary: yeah I know, but sometimes it's just easier to handle as people get confused
May 13 15:19:32 * irgsomething will test that damn microphone later, now he has to go to work
May 13 15:20:15 <irgsomething> lardman: so long
May 13 15:23:30 <fiferboy> lbt: I see what you are saying about the scrollbars in s-b-i now.
May 13 15:24:34 <lbt> oof, twin bladed helicopter just flew over the house
May 13 15:24:40 <lbt> it shook!!
May 13 15:25:11 <lbt> fiferboy: in a good way ?
May 13 15:25:30 <lardman> irgsomething: cu later
May 13 15:25:32 <fiferboy> Well, in the way you were describing.
May 13 15:25:52 <fiferboy> I can't really think of a solution that would work well.
May 13 15:26:35 <Bobbe> did anybody here get gears working on a n800?
May 13 15:26:36 <fiferboy> If you could get the size of the view area (which I am not even sure is available due to rows being offscreen)
May 13 15:27:00 <fiferboy> And the number of items in the list and come up with an average item size you might be able to do something
May 13 15:27:14 <fiferboy> But it would still look wierd if the rows aren't uniform height.
May 13 15:28:47 <lbt> it would need a lot of re-writing
May 13 15:29:00 <lbt> IMHO
May 13 15:31:31 <fiferboy> I think you are right.  How does your code correctly handle s-b-i right now?  FlickCharm moved the scrollbar one item for ever pixel of scroll.
May 13 15:32:36 <lbt> floating point
May 13 15:33:11 <lbt> calculates and stores position wrt range
May 13 15:33:48 <fiferboy> Ah, I think that is how hildon-pannable-area does it as well.
May 13 15:34:04 <fiferboy> Nice thinking, better than the one pixel, one increment on the scrollbar
May 13 15:34:08 <lbt> scrollFactor.ry() = (qreal) vsb->pageStep() / qabstractscrollarea->viewport()->height();
May 13 15:34:37 <fiferboy> viewport()->height() returns the total height in pixels for the scroll area?
May 13 15:34:52 <lbt> yes, viewport isa widget
May 13 15:35:11 <lardman> I wonder if irgsomething will be disappointed to find out that the DSP bridge probably can't maintain ~44kHz data transfer
May 13 15:35:32 <fiferboy> Gotcha
May 13 15:36:12 <lardman> hmm, scratch my comment, it works for the SBC encoder
May 13 15:36:34 <lbt> now I have to fix nested scrollareas...
May 13 15:36:39 <lbt> that's ugh
May 13 15:37:44 <lbt> I need to check each child object to determine if it's a scrollarea
May 13 15:37:53 <fiferboy> Is it possible tojust scroll the innermost in every situation?
May 13 15:38:18 <lbt> it's to do with how I filter events from all children
May 13 15:38:46 <lbt> so the outermost sa filters events for everything in it
May 13 15:39:07 <lbt> it needs to ignore anything inside that is scrollable
May 13 15:39:15 <lbt> however there is no way to ask things
May 13 15:39:20 <lbt> "are you scrollable"
May 13 15:39:31 <lbt> hmm maybe I have to implement that?
May 13 15:39:57 <lbt> yeah, actually
May 13 15:40:07 <lbt> if I ask "are you an abstactscrollarea"
May 13 15:40:23 <lbt> then it'll say yes even if it's been reimplemented
May 13 15:40:30 <lbt> as, eg, a scrollarea ?
May 13 15:40:45 <lbt> then do some set intersection stuff
May 13 15:42:26 <fiferboy> Your code installs a filter for every QAbstractScrollArea, right?
May 13 15:42:48 <lbt> no
May 13 15:43:03 <lbt> it installs a filter for every widget inside an QASA
May 13 15:43:23 <lbt> http://pastebin.com/d748d4926
May 13 15:43:47 <lbt> I'm hacking that... there is no obj->isAbstractScrollArea() method yet ;)
May 13 15:44:11 <lbt> and I doubt list arithmetic is that coolly easy either ;)
May 13 15:44:34 <fiferboy> I was going to ask if -= would subtract a list subset.
May 13 15:44:38 <fiferboy> That would be nice.
May 13 15:44:40 <lbt> I wish...
May 13 15:44:50 <lbt> it might.... Qt/STL is pretty neat
May 13 15:45:33 <fiferboy> There is a +=, but it doesn't look like a -= (unless it inherits it from something)
May 13 15:45:48 <lbt> no :(
May 13 15:45:55 <lbt> feature request !
May 13 15:46:44 <fiferboy> I wouldn't have been too surprised if it was there.
May 13 15:49:10 <thopiekar> Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#Installation_in_VirtualBox :)
May 13 15:50:39 <fiferboy> for isAbstractScrollArea you could do something like:
May 13 15:50:40 <fiferboy> QAbstractScrollArea *scrollArea = dynamic_cast<QAbstractScrollArea*>(widget);
May 13 15:50:40 <fiferboy>     if (scrollArea) {
May 13 15:54:40 <andrewfblack> RST38h: just letting you know Minimalist 2.0 is almost ready
May 13 16:01:24 <lbt> fiferboy:  obj->inherits("QAbstractScrollArea")
May 13 16:04:22 <fiferboy> Even better!
May 13 16:04:41 <lbt> http://pastebin.com/d7770d112
May 13 16:04:46 <fiferboy> Although:  "Consider using qobject_cast<Type *>(object) instead. The method is both faster and safer."
May 13 16:05:15 <lbt> ooh.. must read more
May 13 16:05:58 <fiferboy> Looks good.
May 13 16:06:55 <fiferboy> I'm no longer sure about setViewportMargins, as it says that is the margin AROUND the scrolling area
May 13 16:06:59 <lbt> hmm, remove is probably better
May 13 16:07:07 <lbt> as it will short-circuit
May 13 16:07:29 <lbt> agree about the margins... thought I'd do this first...
May 13 16:07:58 <fiferboy> you mean removeOne is better?
May 13 16:10:11 <lbt> yes
May 13 16:10:36 <Stskeeps> lo yerga :)
May 13 16:10:41 <lbt> make
May 13 16:10:56 <yerga> Hey Stskeeps
May 13 16:11:07 <Stskeeps> how is it going?
May 13 16:11:12 <fiferboy> Would you mind sending me the binary file so I could test it on all my nested scroll areas?
May 13 16:11:57 <yerga> Stskeeps, fine, thanks
May 13 16:12:05 <yerga> a bit busy preparing the finals
May 13 16:12:11 <Stskeeps> ah, i know the feeling
May 13 16:12:24 <Stskeeps> i have a thesis meeting tomorrow and a horrible linear algebra exam in a month
May 13 16:15:26 <Stskeeps> 'lo Myrtti
May 13 16:18:52 <Myrtti> lo
May 13 16:19:25 <Stskeeps> how is it going?
May 13 16:21:50 <fiferboy> lbt: bbiab
May 13 16:21:56 <lbt> l8r
May 13 16:22:05 <lbt> (it build BTW)
May 13 16:44:15 <slonopotamus> please, raise a hand everyone who has something different than 0x30 in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/default_country
May 13 16:53:33 * lardman apologises that both hands are stuck to kb, and N810 is being used in the other room
May 13 16:55:32 <slonopotamus> if yes, please run strace -s256 -o wlan-cal_strace chroot /mnt/initfs/ /usr/bin/wlan-cal and gimme contents of wlan-cal_strace
May 13 16:56:00 <slonopotamus> 'apt-get install strace' to install strace
May 13 17:15:48 <AFBN810> anyone know how to change sheets in gnumeric
May 13 17:21:11 <lardman> ctrl-tab as a guess
May 13 17:31:10 <elninja> I want to run OS2008 from external SD, and I'm partitioning the card. Do I need a VFAT partition, and will it use a swap partition?
May 13 17:31:32 <AFBN810> no tab key on my tablet
May 13 17:32:54 <elninja> Try CTRL+I
May 13 17:33:20 <elninja> Works in some apps
May 13 17:33:44 <AFBN810> nope
May 13 17:35:28 <fiferboy> lbt: Could you send me the so file?
May 13 17:35:56 <lbt> I was going to try via irc.. it's 10Mb
May 13 17:36:38 <kfx> AFBN810: have you tried edit->sheet->manage sheets
May 13 17:36:45 <kfx> then clicking on the one you want to switch to
May 13 17:36:51 <kfx> then closing the dialog box
May 13 17:37:43 <AFBN810> that works thanks wise there was an eaiser way but that will work
May 13 17:39:42 <kfx> it's weird they don't show up just above the status bar
May 13 17:49:16 <andrewfblack> kfx: you would think there would be tabs for switching but ohwell
May 13 18:27:10 <GAN800> mascots. . . .
May 13 18:27:46 <RST38h> Let us just use GeneralAntilles as a mascot and be done with it
May 13 18:35:23 <lbt> back now
May 13 18:35:29 <lbt> fiferboy: hi
May 13 18:35:57 <fiferboy> lbt: hi
May 13 18:37:07 <fiferboy> Did you test the nested scrolling?
May 13 18:40:02 <lbt> just trying it
May 13 18:40:53 <lbt> where did I have to copy data?
May 13 18:43:18 <fiferboy> If you installed the deb it should be in the right place, if not copy "src/data/tables" to "~/.birdlist/"
May 13 18:47:05 <lbt> could not open database birdlist
May 13 18:47:37 <lbt> I did make instead of buildpkg... building deb now...
May 13 18:47:49 <GAN800> Ah, finally, Jaaksi blogs again
May 13 18:48:06 <RST38h> anything meaningful?
May 13 18:48:10 <Stskeeps> "i ate the rx-51 and you can't have it"
May 13 18:48:16 <fiferboy> lbt: Are you running it on the tablet?
May 13 18:48:20 <lbt> yes
May 13 18:49:01 <GAN800> RST38h, tell you in a sec
May 13 18:49:38 <lbt> Stskeeps: you wanted a gtk hacker.... grab murrayc... he'll help Mer ;)
May 13 18:49:40 <GAN800> RST38h, lol, no. It's, like, four lines.
May 13 18:50:06 <Stskeeps> lbt: at a fashionable price, probably ;)
May 13 18:51:22 <fiferboy> lbt: Nested scrolling isn't working for me.
May 13 18:51:32 <RST38h> GAN: Eh...
May 13 18:51:34 <lbt> damn
May 13 18:52:01 <GAN800> RST38h, he just mentioned Qt and oFono
May 13 18:52:09 <fiferboy> I may have screwed up the copy, but it is acting the same as before.
May 13 18:52:11 <lbt> still it was a first cut...and I can imagine some issues
May 13 18:52:25 <RST38h> Maemo + Moblin stuff is more intriguing though
May 13 18:52:33 <lbt> BTW that .so prints debug info
May 13 18:52:36 <fiferboy> Actually, I think I got the copy right because it is dumping debug info
May 13 18:52:42 <RST38h> Given that Moblin2 is RedHat based and thus not quite compatible with Maemo
May 13 18:53:01 <Stskeeps> hmm? url?
May 13 18:53:04 <GAN800> RST38h, Hildon, etc.
May 13 18:53:19 <GAN800> Stskeeps, planet.maemo.org
May 13 18:53:24 <Stskeeps> ah
May 13 18:53:32 <fiferboy> lbt: Scroll bar dragging is working now
May 13 18:53:42 <RST38h> GAN: Yes, except that these Moblin guys have been recently trying to get away from Hildon
May 13 18:53:54 <RST38h> voice enabled moblin and maemo...oh yess
May 13 18:54:02 <lbt> good
May 13 18:54:18 <lcuk> "computer"
May 13 18:54:57 <lbt> the registerchildren code won't work
May 13 18:55:41 <RST38h> RedHat  <=== oFono changelog
May 13 18:55:47 <RST38h> shit, wait
May 13 18:55:58 <fiferboy> lbt: The part where you remove the scroll area derived children?
May 13 18:56:02 <RST38h> http://git.kernel.org/?p=network/ofono/ofono.git;a=summary  <== oFono changelog
May 13 18:56:03 <lbt> yes
May 13 18:56:08 <lbt> it's ok first pass
May 13 18:56:47 <fiferboy> What if instead of removing the scroll area derived children you loop through all the children and just add the non-scroll-area-derived?
May 13 18:56:59 <lbt> but if you add a widget to a descedant SA then the childAdded event calls it again
May 13 18:57:33 <lbt> it tracks newly added children anywhere in the heirarchy
May 13 18:58:36 <RST38h> Looks like they are busy implementing voice call finite state machine
May 13 18:58:53 <RST38h> The low level stuff is not there yet, just the skeletons for it
May 13 18:59:17 <lbt> Harald Welte on ofono ... http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/05/12#20090512-ophono_fso
May 13 19:01:24 <RST38h> poor little OpenMoko...Not only they are out of money but big guys are ignoring them too
May 13 19:02:20 <RST38h> lbt: Actually I have an answer to that pissed off guy question
May 13 19:02:43 <lbt> ...
May 13 19:02:46 <RST38h> lbt: oFono does not use FSO because FSO does not provide any code to make voice calls, according to their own Wiki
May 13 19:02:54 <toggles_w> RST38h: it's over, as of yesterdaydidn't intel and nokia go opensource?
May 13 19:02:59 <RST38h> lbt: exhibit #1: http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Implementations
May 13 19:03:01 <toggles_w> oh.. oops
May 13 19:03:59 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i would encourage FSO to work with ofono really - nothing will be better than being able to take big consulting fees cos you helped push the platform and develop it :P
May 13 19:04:31 <RST38h> Sts: ļIf I were Intel or Maemo, I wouldn't care about FSO
May 13 19:04:39 <RST38h> Sts: They are the Pandora of smartphones
May 13 19:04:59 <Stskeeps> RST38h: ah but at least they have hw that's sold :P
May 13 19:05:10 <RST38h> Sts: Yes, true, but how well did it work?
May 13 19:05:21 <Stskeeps> RST38h: sw crap
May 13 19:05:21 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 19:05:44 <Stskeeps> also, whoever designed the microsd slot needs to die
May 13 19:05:48 <RST38h> Sts: If you believe their Wiki, they did not even have sw for voice calling
May 13 19:06:03 <RST38h> Sts: Which is incidentally what oFono is
May 13 19:06:05 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on any of those points :P
May 13 19:06:55 <RST38h> Sts: So, Intel just paid a few of their engineers to read into AT cellular command set and implement the correct state machine for making voice calls
May 13 19:06:59 <Stskeeps> with FSO i would really just encourage them to get in the project and use the synergy of community and big companies as early as possible
May 13 19:07:35 <Stskeeps> but that's my own personal opinion
May 13 19:07:46 <RST38h> Sts: FSO is a bunch of guys still developing for a piece of outdated hardware which is no longer produced
May 13 19:07:54 <Stskeeps> if i was to choose a voice stack for mer, i would probably go for ofono
May 13 19:08:06 <Stskeeps> (without looking too closely at technical details)
May 13 19:08:18 <RST38h> Sts: Do look at technical details though
May 13 19:08:45 <Stskeeps> it's amazing how much rucus there can be over dbus apis..
May 13 19:09:05 <RST38h> Sts: So, really the smart thing would be to produce a reasonably open source friendly piece of voice call capable hw and then try to pull FSO guys over
May 13 19:09:35 <RST38h> Sts: But neither Nokia nor Inel are particularly eager to do his just now
May 13 19:09:41 <RST38h> s/his/this
May 13 19:10:08 <Stskeeps> i'm (thank god) not in that area just yet
May 13 19:10:13 <Stskeeps> even though i just got a freerunner donated
May 13 19:11:48 <toggles_w> i just ditched my freerunenr for the n810, if pan would work it would be perfect and way more of a phone...
May 13 19:13:00 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i wonder if the smartq people could be encouraged to drop in a gsm chip, hm :P
May 13 19:13:08 <RST38h> hehe
May 13 19:13:29 <RST38h> ask them if they would be willing to add a baseband chip and give you the docs :)
May 13 19:13:47 <Stskeeps> honestly, wouldn't i just be happy with AT commands and ability to grab voice from it?
May 13 19:13:52 <RST38h> this can probably be done as a separate board too, the usual control interface is i2c
May 13 19:14:10 <RST38h> Sts: that is how baseband chip operates
May 13 19:14:31 <RST38h> Sts: there is also some analog circuitry, but control goes over a simple serial line
May 13 19:15:21 <Stskeeps> *nod*
May 13 19:16:04 <RST38h> Do ask them about this stuff though, you have high chances of success with this question
May 13 19:16:20 <Stskeeps> i will once the dust has settled :P
May 13 19:17:33 <RST38h> shit
May 13 19:17:39 * RST38h curses tracker
May 13 19:18:05 <RST38h> Can I uninstall this "helpful" program somehow? It is eating 100% of my other cpu
May 13 19:20:20 <suihkulokki> apt-get remove tracker
May 13 19:22:53 <RST38h> thanks
May 13 19:24:45 <RST38h> It's dead, Jim! You take its tricorder and I will take its purse.
May 13 19:27:17 <RST38h> When this is bundled with NITs, it will eclipse Modest!
May 13 19:27:52 <Stskeeps> well, tracker on ubuntu is a older version afaik
May 13 19:29:10 <Stskeeps> also, are you DC connected? :P
May 13 19:30:11 <RST38h> No, running on batteries, fan spinning crazy, second core running tracker at 100%
May 13 19:30:23 <RST38h> and I have just deleted 470MB of tracker indices
May 13 19:31:18 <RST38h> BTW, all tracker indexing has been disabled via the applet a few days ago and still shows as disable in the cfg file
May 13 19:31:45 <RST38h> The only thing that killed it was apt-get remove as suihkulokki suggested
May 13 19:43:14 <lbt> fiferboy: made a .deb and get the same error
May 13 19:43:58 <fiferboy> The font config error?
May 13 19:45:18 <lbt> could not open database birdlist
May 13 19:45:25 <lbt> in a popup
May 13 19:45:45 <lbt> do I still need ~/.birdlist?
May 13 19:45:57 <lbt> Unable to connect to database, giving up: "Driver not loaded Driver not loaded"
May 13 19:46:02 <fiferboy> It should create it on first run.
May 13 19:46:06 <lbt> have I missed dependecies?
May 13 19:46:10 <lbt> using dpkg -i
May 13 19:46:13 <fiferboy> Do you have libqt4-sql-sqlite installed?
May 13 19:48:06 <lbt> no
May 13 19:48:21 <lbt> yes
May 13 19:48:50 <lbt> ta
May 13 19:49:51 <fiferboy> np
May 13 19:55:34 <Jaffa> Ev'ning, all
May 13 19:55:40 <thopiekar> hi Jaffa
May 13 19:55:42 <thopiekar> :)
May 13 19:55:50 <Jaffa> Good to be home :)
May 13 19:57:38 <fiferboy> lbt: Still loading the database?
May 13 19:58:50 <crashanddie_> Jaffa: :(
May 13 20:02:22 <lbt> all done
May 13 20:02:25 <lbt> no pics though
May 13 20:02:39 <lbt> I selected ~MyDocs/birds as the photo dir...
May 13 20:03:08 * lcuk likes the creative flow people are havin in the forum :)
May 13 20:03:18 <lcuk> \o hey jaffa
May 13 20:03:24 <fiferboy> You have to assign pics from photos in that directory
May 13 20:03:26 <lcuk> seb '\o
May 13 20:03:34 <lbt> I have no pics
May 13 20:03:45 <lbt> Aren't yours included?
May 13 20:03:55 <fiferboy> No, no pics by default.
May 13 20:04:20 <fiferboy> you can get some from http://birdingandrew.blogspot.com
May 13 20:04:45 <Stskeeps> do i dare to ask which maemo app this one is? :P
May 13 20:04:49 <lbt> when I ran it on x86 I had pics
May 13 20:04:59 <lbt> birdlist :)
May 13 20:05:02 <lbt> it's rather nice
May 13 20:05:15 <lbt> for twitchers only!
May 13 20:05:39 <fiferboy> lbt: Are you or your wife twitchers?
May 13 20:05:40 <Stskeeps> lbt: we should adapt it with pictures of maemo.org community members, for the cph meet..
May 13 20:05:44 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 20:06:03 <lbt> used to be
May 13 20:06:07 * Myrtti raises an eyebrow
May 13 20:06:12 <lbt> Stskeeps: good idea
May 13 20:06:18 <lbt> still RSPB
May 13 20:06:35 <lbt> it'd work too
May 13 20:06:42 * Stskeeps ponders to bring his hat to look more recognizable.
May 13 20:06:47 <lbt> eastern european section
May 13 20:06:51 <lbt> south american
May 13 20:06:52 <lbt> finnish
May 13 20:07:02 <lcuk> Stskeeps, you will be recognisable anyway
May 13 20:07:13 <lcuk> arent you wearing a costume with random mer devices all over
May 13 20:07:17 <Stskeeps> true.
May 13 20:07:32 <Stskeeps> and a beagleboard embedded in my skull
May 13 20:07:33 * lcuk will have a dodgy finger 
May 13 20:07:33 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 20:07:36 <lbt> fiferboy: so no piccies in the source?
May 13 20:08:00 <lcuk> lbt, the latest liqbase includes a great list of all the maemo members :D
May 13 20:08:52 <fiferboy> lbt: No.  Too many species (10331)
May 13 20:09:10 <lbt> and you wondered why it was slow at scrolling?
May 13 20:09:19 <fiferboy> If you double click on a species it brings up the wikipedia article, though.  Pics are usually there
May 13 20:09:32 <fiferboy> Well, I usually only have it display 200-1100
May 13 20:09:32 <lbt> yeah, I had thumbnails b4
May 13 20:09:51 <lbt> and it is fine scrolling without them
May 13 20:10:05 <lbt> so I wanted to see if the thumbnails slowed it down
May 13 20:10:13 * Jaffa wonders about reading tmo tonight. Nah - will hit "Mark forums read" tomorrow and ignore it :)
May 13 20:10:35 <lbt> actually, it's really nice and responsive
May 13 20:10:47 <fiferboy> put some pics in your directory and assign them to sightings
May 13 20:10:47 <lbt> what's the webpage widget called?
May 13 20:10:59 <lbt> meh... time...
May 13 20:11:17 <fiferboy> I just designed at around a QWebView widget, it's got a UI file in the source
May 13 20:11:34 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: the council uniforms thread is a blast.
May 13 20:11:34 <Stskeeps> :P
May 13 20:11:41 <lbt> it doesn't fingerscroll
May 13 20:11:46 <lbt> so I was going to look
May 13 20:12:11 <fiferboy> Yes, QWebView doesn't fingerscroll
May 13 20:12:26 <lbt> yet
May 13 20:12:55 <fiferboy> :)
May 13 20:15:07 <fiferboy> I need to optimize the interface a little more for small screens, make it easier to find a specific location file, finish the help files, etc
May 13 20:15:20 <fiferboy> Finger scrolling is a very nice touch
May 13 20:15:30 <Stskeeps> fantastic chinese forums
May 13 20:15:33 <Stskeeps> "Have good thermal crack"
May 13 20:15:44 <Stskeeps> (and translate.google.com)
May 13 20:16:10 <RST38h> urgh
May 13 20:16:18 <crashanddie_> I would recommend putting some termal paste on your crack
May 13 20:16:20 <crashanddie_> before you burn out
May 13 20:16:44 <RST38h> Sts: I *think* they mean the space shuttle Atlantis =)
May 13 20:16:54 <Stskeeps> lol :P
May 13 20:17:18 <Proteous> Mmmm, thermal crack
May 13 20:17:39 <crashanddie_> ok, well that's it for me guys, heading home
May 13 20:17:44 <fiferboy> lbt: Try opening the preferences and scrolling the left-hand list widget
May 13 20:18:26 <lbt> I'm running this under Mer
May 13 20:18:33 <lbt> and it doesn't need to scroll
May 13 20:18:41 <lbt> (not enough entries)
May 13 20:19:17 <lbt> hmm
May 13 20:20:13 <lbt> massive event storm
May 13 20:20:16 <lbt> 2 5 3
May 13 20:20:22 <fiferboy> No horizontal scroll?
May 13 20:20:41 <lbt> no
May 13 20:20:42 <fiferboy> Try increasing your font size at the main window (zoom button) and then open preferences
May 13 20:22:17 <lbt> Mer gives you fullscreen popups
May 13 20:22:26 * RST38h is facing a problem
May 13 20:22:43 <fiferboy> Ah, right.  Like Fremantle, kind of.
May 13 20:22:54 <fiferboy> If you make the font size big enough you should get scrolling :)
May 13 20:22:56 <lbt> probably
May 13 20:22:58 <lbt> yes
May 13 20:23:00 <lbt> looks like it
May 13 20:23:14 <lbt> outer scrolls
May 13 20:23:19 <lbt> inner doesn't
May 13 20:23:58 <lbt> silly UI
May 13 20:24:20 <fiferboy> Do you get the CPU through the roof trying to scroll the list widget?
May 13 20:24:32 <lbt> yes
May 13 20:24:38 <lbt> you have some kind of event storm
May 13 20:24:42 <lbt> 2 5 3
May 13 20:25:05 <lbt> QEvent::MouseButtonPress QEvent::MouseMove QEvent::MouseButtonRelease
May 13 20:26:19 <fiferboy> I don't think anything is different about that particular list widget
May 13 20:26:37 <lbt> nah, got to be my code
May 13 20:29:10 <fiferboy> Actually, the list widget is inside a scroll area, that might be it.
May 13 20:29:17 <lbt> yes
May 13 20:29:28 <fiferboy> It is unecessary to have a scrolling widget in a scroll area.  I can change that.
May 13 20:29:33 <lbt> no
May 13 20:29:39 <lbt> it should be fine
May 13 20:29:47 <lbt> it's a good test too
May 13 20:30:36 <cars__> I can't seem to get the stylus keyboard back.  All that shows is the finger keyboard on my n810.
May 13 20:30:36 <fiferboy> My code is usually unusual to be a good test.
May 13 20:32:20 <lbt> heh
May 13 20:32:23 <lbt> nb
May 13 20:32:27 <andrewfblack> hello
May 13 20:32:27 <lbt> findChildren
May 13 20:32:34 <lbt> Returns the children of this object that can be cast to type T
May 13 20:32:42 <lbt> hmmm :)
May 13 20:33:08 <fiferboy> Too bad you can't find the children that CAN'T be cast to type T
May 13 20:33:16 <fiferboy> Just a little more work, I guess
May 13 20:33:20 <lbt> yes
May 13 20:33:29 <Proteous> just let me near any child and I will make sure they need a cast
May 13 20:33:31 <fiferboy> I've got to go now.
May 13 20:33:33 <crashanddie_> People
May 13 20:33:35 <crashanddie_> DANCE!
May 13 20:33:37 <lbt> 'k ta
May 13 20:33:37 <Proteous> oh wait, are we talking programing?
May 13 20:33:39 <crashanddie_> :D :D :D :D :D
May 13 20:33:46 <lbt> crashanddie I can do that
May 13 20:33:56 <lbt> Tango ?
May 13 20:34:03 <crashanddie_> Whatever you want :)
May 13 20:34:13 <lbt> Samba....
May 13 20:34:55 <cars__> Is there a setting I have missed?  I've scoured the control panel but can't find anything.
May 13 20:35:20 * RST38h casts Proteous to void * and assigns NULL to him
May 13 20:36:07 <crashanddie_> that wouldn't work, really
May 13 20:36:41 <crashanddie_> rather, you should cast NULL to typeof(Proteous) and assign it to him
May 13 20:37:12 <lbt> delete Proteous
May 13 20:37:25 <lbt> c++ is so much better
May 13 20:37:42 <lbt> once again memory management issues....
May 13 20:37:44 <lbt> <sigh>
May 13 20:38:07 <crashanddie_> lbt: don't fame C++ for having less memory management issues than C
May 13 20:38:22 <lbt> ~lart C
May 13 20:38:22 * infobot throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at C
May 13 20:38:53 <crashanddie_> let us not forget than C and C++ became popular because they *allowed* manual memory management... Where all the languages before abstracted that from the developer
May 13 20:39:26 * lbt loves C really
May 13 20:39:34 <lbt> emacs is written in C
May 13 20:39:38 <lbt> say no more
May 13 20:39:49 <lbt> if C is capable of such perfection....
May 13 20:40:08 <Proteous> don't let me start a programing lanuguage fight
May 13 20:40:13 <crashanddie_> slaming either C or C++ for memory management issues is like slamming a manual transmission for being too difficult compared to an automatic :)
May 13 20:40:36 <Proteous> or cake for being better then pie (even though it is)
May 13 20:41:05 <Proteous> on a side note, when you are eating pie it is easier to drive an auto
May 13 20:41:39 <crashanddie_> not if you're on the highway, you don't change gears there
May 13 20:42:32 <crashanddie_> find the error: "Our client is an exciting London based start-up founded a talented and successful entrepreneur, they currently have a requirement for a CTO / Lead Architect to lead the development of their next project, which is highly regarded a revolutionary service."
May 13 20:43:27 <crashanddie_> so basically, you want to have me do the job of a CTO, Architect, Tech Lead, and Project Manager while paying me the minuscule salary of an undergrad? Right.
May 13 20:43:56 <derf> Oh. I thought you were complaining that the author couldn't write a grammatical sentence to save their lives.
May 13 20:44:04 <crashanddie_> that too.
May 13 20:44:30 <crashanddie_> headhunters think in keywords, grammar is unnecessary to them
May 13 20:46:03 <crashanddie_> If headhunters ruled the world, a CV would be made of "Young. Experienced. Good looking." Pick one.
May 13 20:46:24 <derf> You can be young and good looking.
May 13 20:46:48 <crashanddie_> Next! (Can't follow rules)
May 13 20:47:49 * RST38h makes crashanddie Vice President on Web Technologies Strategic Development and asks him to do his web site for free
May 13 20:48:03 <b-man> heh
May 13 20:48:36 <crashanddie_> RST38h: don't do websites anymore.
May 13 20:49:55 <crashanddie_> ok, gotta go, or I'll miss train, have a good one people
May 13 21:31:05 <Bobbe> can anybody tell me a package that should be in app manager if I have Extras enabled? I have the strange feeling that it is not there (tho the app manager tells me it is)
May 13 21:31:41 <Bobbe> Abiword, for instance, should be there, right?
May 13 21:31:49 <mgedmin> not necessarily
May 13 21:31:57 <mgedmin> openssh, though, should be
May 13 21:33:11 <Bobbe> openssh is there, so my Extras is working, I guess
May 13 21:33:19 <Bobbe> I've been told wrong then
May 13 21:34:01 <Bobbe> which repo should I add to install nano?
May 13 21:34:21 <oli> ;x what have i done.
May 13 21:34:44 <oli> i just wanted to display it, sorry!
May 13 21:35:37 <oli> Bobbe: you don't use vi?
May 13 21:37:10 <mgedmin> Bobbe: the tools repo apparently has it
May 13 21:37:24 <mgedmin> deb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/tools free non-free
May 13 21:37:32 * mgedmin prefers vim
May 13 21:38:05 <Bobbe> oli, I do, but I vastly prefer nano. Typing : all the time in the n800 keyboard is a pain
May 13 21:38:22 <Bobbe> ctrl is a lot more accessible. Big, fat, ctrl button waiting to be crunched ;)
May 13 21:38:45 <Bobbe> thx mgedmin. Where can I see which packages are in each repo?
May 13 21:38:57 <mgedmin> good question
May 13 21:45:54 <Bobbe> apparently somebody had compiled nano for os2007, but not 2008
May 13 21:46:12 <RST38h> nano works on 2008
May 13 21:46:45 <Bobbe> u mean getting this package compiled for os2007 and installing it on my diablo will work?
May 13 21:46:56 <RST38h> Wait
May 13 21:47:05 <Bobbe> k
May 13 21:47:10 <RST38h> Bottom of page http://nitapps.com/
May 13 21:48:20 <Bobbe> just a sec
May 13 21:51:59 <Bobbe> error opening terminal: xterm.
May 13 22:22:48 <Bobbe> another question: can you guys see pictures in ur e-mails? My html e-mails don't show pictures at all
May 13 22:34:11 <fiferboy_n810> lbt: any luck with nested scrolling?
May 13 22:34:19 <lbt> yep sorted
May 13 22:34:39 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: catching up on (some) of tmo: thanks for some of your excellent posts btw
May 13 22:35:08 <lbt> and it *must* be right 'cos it uses recursion!
May 13 22:35:12 <lbt> http://pastebin.com/d6958f7c2
May 13 22:35:14 <lbt> WED
May 13 22:35:16 <lbt> QED
May 13 22:35:34 <lbt> (oh, and I tested it)
May 13 22:36:04 <lbt> essentially I walk the tree myself and stop at QASAs
May 13 22:37:06 <fiferboy_n810> Recursion has never been wrong
May 13 22:37:22 <fiferboy_n810> Even improperly implemented recursion is correct
May 13 22:38:37 <lbt> now reading the scrollarea code to see about bounce
May 13 22:40:39 <fiferboy_n810> do you have any ideas yet?
May 13 22:41:11 <lbt> updateWidgetPosition()
May 13 22:43:47 <lbt> _q_hslide(int)
May 13 22:45:28 <fiferboy_n810> are those qwidget functions?
May 13 22:45:35 <lbt> qasa
May 13 22:46:09 <lbt> also it may be worth looking at QAbstractSlider::setValue
May 13 22:46:24 <lbt> which is where the bounds checking is done...
May 13 22:46:37 <lbt> we may subvert the bounds check
May 13 22:47:13 <lbt> testing vmax patch now
May 13 22:47:47 <fiferboy_n810> setValue says it has to be within the legal range
May 13 22:48:57 <lbt> yeah... we need to hack the legal range :)
May 13 22:51:36 <fiferboy_n810> ah, that make sense
May 13 22:52:10 <fiferboy_n810> I never checked how the scrollbar responds in Fremantle when it is overshooting
May 13 22:52:42 <lbt> do they squish
May 13 22:53:00 <lbt> hmm they may not like that
May 13 22:57:17 <fiferboy_n810> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-D-J0Y7ufM
May 13 22:57:22 <fiferboy_n810> They do squish
May 13 22:57:42 <fiferboy_n810> Isn't that what would happen when you make the range lager?
May 13 22:57:46 <fiferboy_n810> larger
May 13 22:59:40 <lbt> I can see them fling out of the end in Qt...
May 13 22:59:44 <lbt> flying
May 13 23:00:18 <lbt> last vmax test b4 bed
May 13 23:00:43 <fiferboy_n810> As long as it doesn't paint the part that flies out, it'll look squishy
May 13 23:01:14 <fiferboy_n810> If you have a sec to send the nested code I would appreciate that
May 13 23:05:23 <lbt> may as well I'm in trouble anyway!
May 13 23:05:40 <fiferboy_n810> Staying up too late?
May 13 23:07:52 <lbt> yup.... not getting any tonight!
May 13 23:08:37 <fiferboy_n810> Happens to me frequently... the getting in trouble for staying up coding part
May 13 23:08:45 <lbt> qemu linker is so slow
May 13 23:08:53 <lbt> yeah - I seem to work best at night
May 13 23:09:10 <fiferboy_n810> Try a Qt compile in virtualbox on a slow laptop!
May 13 23:09:27 <lbt> no thanks :)
May 13 23:10:12 <lbt> are you in the UK ?
May 13 23:10:21 <fiferboy_n810> No, Canada
May 13 23:10:31 <lbt> oh, that's right
May 13 23:10:33 <lbt> Ontario
May 13 23:10:39 <fiferboy_n810> I'm not in trouble yet, it's only 7:10
May 13 23:10:43 <fiferboy_n810> Yep
May 13 23:10:50 <lbt> heh 00:10 here
May 13 23:11:08 <fiferboy_n810> Where are you in the UK?
May 13 23:11:19 <lbt> Reading,
May 13 23:12:15 <fiferboy_n810> My father-in-law is from Leciester
May 13 23:13:14 <lbt> email sent... has vmax cap and nested scroll should be OK...
May 13 23:13:26 <lbt> I'd better go.... catch you tomorrow
May 13 23:13:30 <fiferboy_n810> Great, thanks so much
May 13 23:13:34 <fiferboy_n810> ttyl
May 13 23:43:53 <Bobbe> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FU0A64mhyM
May 13 23:43:55 * b-man establishes the #random-chatt channel - join if your bored lol
May 13 23:44:09 <Bobbe> If I see this woman on the street, I'll run. No kidding
May 13 23:44:30 <b-man> hehe
May 13 23:56:01 <lcuk> Bobbe kate is a well respected member of this community who does some excellent research, im sure if she ever saw you in the street she would be just as happy to see another community member as you are
May 13 23:58:53 <Bobbe> I didn't disrespect any of her work at all. I just said she looks scary in the video, that's all
May 14 00:00:13 <b-man> lcuk, join #random-chatt
May 14 00:07:06 <b-man> lcuk, why? - for entertainmen if you're bored - and to (hopefully) reduce spam on #maemo ;)
May 14 00:07:12 <b-man> *entertainment
May 14 00:07:51 <lcuk> yeah i know, but theres not much spam here lol
May 14 00:11:05 <Jaffa> Especially at midnight UTC :)
May 14 00:14:47 <b-man> .......good point - but it's still great if you're bored and want to type random stuff without annoying the living hell out of people ;)
May 14 00:14:54 <b-man> indeed :)
May 14 00:22:34 <kfx> browserd is basically using all my ram whether I use the browser or not
May 14 00:22:50 <kfx> any fixes for this?
May 14 00:38:30 <Bobbe_> kfx, u sure there aren't any browser processes running (besides browserd)? It's using 10mb here with nothing open, but that's it
May 14 00:38:31 <tank-man> kfx, maybe restart the service?
May 14 00:41:19 <tank-man> ex: /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart
May 14 00:43:08 <kfx> I'll try that
May 14 00:51:11 <kfx> well
May 14 00:51:31 <kfx> that saved 6mb but now maemo-launcher is soaking it all up
May 14 01:25:04 <sneakret> Howdy. I want to format my N810's mini SD card as ext2, and I'm having trouble finding instructions.
May 14 01:25:48 <GeneralAntilles> ~boot-sd
May 14 01:25:49 <infobot> somebody said boot-sd was https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
May 14 01:25:56 <sneakret> (I know other people have done this, so I'd rather not figure it out again)
May 14 01:26:35 <sneakret> Hmm... I'm not trying to boot from SD, but I reckon formatting is a part of that. :)
May 14 01:26:40 <sneakret> Thanks.
May 14 01:27:33 <sneakret> any news on the next NIT?
May 14 01:35:42 <GeneralAntilles> ~rx-51
May 14 01:35:43 <infobot> rx-51 is probably http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html
May 14 01:44:42 <sneakret> sounds cool.
May 14 01:52:02 <Bobbe_> is there a roadmap for the release of the rx-51? I tried to look for it but couldn't find it
May 14 01:56:23 <Jaffa> Bobbe_: sometime between now and the end of the year. Hopefully summerish.
May 14 01:56:56 <Jaffa> The final public roadmap item was "beta SDK" which was released a few weeks ago. But there's been no device announcement yet, so it's all still fairly vague.
May 14 01:57:14 * Jaffa should go to bed. Body clock is probably still on French time, which is now 4am.
May 14 02:05:42 <Jaffa> Right. That's it. I'm done.
May 14 02:06:01 <Jaffa> penguinbait has pissed me off once too often, and I've been back online for less than 6 hours.
May 14 02:06:26 <Proteous> damn penguinbait
May 14 02:06:33 <Proteous> always drivin people off
May 14 02:12:13 <b-man> hmm :
May 14 02:12:20 <b-man> *:(
May 14 02:13:59 <GeneralAntilles> penguinbait is clearly incapable of discussion things rationally.
May 14 02:14:13 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, thanks, Jaffa|gone. :)
May 14 02:24:36 <sneakret> I wonder how much the rx-51 will cost. Seems like a lot of hardware...
May 14 02:25:37 <sneakret> I didn't notice any info about CPU speed...
May 14 02:27:42 <sneakret> some sort of video out would rock.
May 14 02:28:46 * sneakret babbles.
May 14 02:31:02 <doc|home> TI OMAP 3430?
May 14 02:31:13 <doc|home> 600mHz isn't a big speed improvement
May 14 02:35:34 <sneakret> 50%...
May 14 02:37:18 <sneakret> combined with video acceleration and other dedicated hardware, it should make a noticeable difference.
May 14 02:37:56 <doc|home> yeah, but for an internet tablet how much page rendering can you pass off to a video accelerator?
May 14 02:38:29 <doc|home> having said that, it's not appalling now
May 14 02:40:26 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, the MHz isn't the important part
May 14 02:40:42 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, that's not Apples-to-Apples to an ARM11
May 14 02:40:44 <doc|home> more cache?
May 14 02:40:50 <doc|home> hmmm, ok
May 14 02:40:52 <GeneralAntilles> It's a Cortex A8 which is way faster
May 14 02:40:58 <doc|home> ok, that'd be good.
May 14 02:41:02 <GeneralAntilles> 2-3x speedup compared to ARM11 for most stuff
May 14 02:41:07 <doc|home> nice
May 14 02:41:09 <GeneralAntilles> Vastly more for some specific other stuff
May 14 02:41:13 <GeneralAntilles> It's got SIMD
May 14 02:41:33 <sneakret> SIMD?
May 14 02:42:13 <doc|home> anyone guessing at a price? :)
May 14 02:42:41 <sneakret> I was wondering that too.
May 14 02:42:57 <sneakret> I figure with video acceleration, more flash apps will run at reasonable speeds.
May 14 02:43:05 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, ~$500
May 14 02:43:31 <doc|home> thanks
May 14 02:43:35 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, the DSP and GPU are both also way faster than the ones in the OMAP2
May 14 02:43:44 <GeneralAntilles> Video decoding will be done on the DSP
May 14 02:43:55 <GeneralAntilles> So, D1 in h.264 will work fine.
May 14 02:44:02 <GeneralAntilles> 720p in MPEG4 part 2
May 14 02:44:11 <doc|home> nice
May 14 02:44:21 <sneakret> $500 would be awesome, and is a smart target price, but I'm guessing it'll be closer to $600 initially.
May 14 02:44:35 <GeneralAntilles> sneakret, we'll see.
May 14 02:44:40 <sneakret> yup
May 14 02:44:44 <GeneralAntilles> The OMAP3 isn't really the cost thing
May 14 02:44:53 <doc|home> hsdpa?
May 14 02:44:56 <GeneralAntilles> Cost is more likely to be all the little accessories.
May 14 02:44:59 <GeneralAntilles> Nah, not that
May 14 02:45:01 <doc|home> accessories?
May 14 02:45:04 <doc|home> hmmm
May 14 02:45:06 <sneakret> I would be thrilled with $500
May 14 02:45:12 <doc|home> could this do telephone stuff?
May 14 02:45:16 <GeneralAntilles> Accelerometers, FM RX/TX, dual cameras, etc.
May 14 02:45:30 * doc|home has never used the radio nor the camera
May 14 02:45:31 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, VoIP, sure, GSM voice is a remote possibility
May 14 02:45:40 <doc|home> GSM would be sweet
May 14 02:45:47 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, 5 MP on the back (with LED flash and autofocus) and VGA on the front
May 14 02:45:53 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, you see oFono?
May 14 02:46:01 * doc|home searches
May 14 02:46:03 <man_in_pda> yay, downloading maps for maemo-mapper
May 14 02:46:09 <GeneralAntilles> 720p video recording, should be.
May 14 02:46:33 <GeneralAntilles> I suspect we'll PROBABLY see a compass with the GPS/
May 14 02:46:34 <doc|home> GeneralAntilles: oh sweet, could pick up where openmoko didn't.... well, ya know :)
May 14 02:47:18 * doc|home sniffs at his still mostly unusable freerunner 
May 14 02:47:24 <sneakret> A decent GPS receiver would be handy.
May 14 02:47:40 <GeneralAntilles> sneakret, dunno about qualify
May 14 02:47:49 <GeneralAntilles> But AGPS should be a lot easier with HSPA
May 14 02:47:53 <man_in_pda> umm
May 14 02:48:09 <GeneralAntilles> So even if it's as crap as the one we've got now, it should work better in the RX-51 than the N810
May 14 02:48:09 <man_in_pda> why is /topic just 's'?
May 14 02:48:28 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody messed it up, I guess
May 14 02:48:59 <sneakret> I thought that's what we were talking about.
May 14 02:48:59 <GeneralAntilles> I can't remember what the proper topic is
May 14 02:49:07 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody have it in scrollback?
May 14 02:49:11 <doc|home> oli is to blame
May 14 02:49:12 <doc|home> one sec
May 14 02:49:18 <sneakret> Ah, 's'... what an awesome letter.
May 14 02:50:20 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks!
May 14 02:50:25 <doc|home> np
May 14 02:50:26 <man_in_pda> yay
May 14 02:50:41 <sneakret> I miss 's'.
May 14 02:50:46 <doc|home> heh
May 14 02:51:53 <sneakret> I hope Nokia tidies up some of the software, like media player.
May 14 02:52:03 <sneakret> for the next device
May 14 02:52:09 <GeneralAntilles> sneakret, see the Modest screencast?
May 14 02:52:20 <sneakret> Nope.
May 14 02:52:37 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-D-J0Y7ufM
May 14 02:52:41 <GeneralAntilles> Expect that level of polish
May 14 02:52:50 <GeneralAntilles> sneakret, read up on MAFW
May 14 02:52:53 <doc|home> heh
May 14 02:53:12 <sneakret> mawf?
May 14 02:53:14 <doc|home> now if only rogers would get a decent data plan
May 14 02:53:35 <GeneralAntilles> sneakret, Media Application Framework
May 14 02:53:41 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, goodluckwiththat
May 14 02:53:47 <doc|home> GeneralAntilles: I know :(
May 14 02:54:00 <sneakret> Cool. Thanks.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 14 02:59:57 2009