**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 14 02:59:57 2009 May 14 03:25:51 It'll be really nice once ubiquitous data connectivity is reasonably priced. May 14 03:25:57 and, well, ubiquitous. May 14 03:27:52 and then data will be charged for May 14 03:27:52 hehe May 14 03:27:53 yeah May 14 03:27:57 fireun: it is already May 14 03:28:01 every google query costs 10cents May 14 03:28:07 eh? May 14 03:28:25 what, you think they'll always give it away for free? (: May 14 03:28:44 I'm rather amazed I went without cellular data previously. May 14 03:28:50 no, which is why I pay for a net connection :) May 14 03:28:59 I remember the first time I loaded Engadget on my 770 over my 6682. . . . May 14 03:29:11 I about lost it. May 14 03:29:19 GeneralAntilles: really? I rarely miss it, and only because my work is very strict about net connections May 14 03:29:42 doc|home: every google search makes 7g CO2 May 14 03:29:58 fireun: I somehow doubt that May 14 03:30:11 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7823387.stm May 14 03:30:21 depends on who you believe, and which data center it goes thru May 14 03:30:23 bwahahaha, you're trusting the bbc on tech stuff?! May 14 03:30:38 well google figures .2g co2 May 14 03:30:48 doc|home, being able to load up wikipedia at a restaurant to settle a dispute, check reviews when shopping in a store or IRC from just about anywhere. May 14 03:31:02 ok, the reviews thing I would like May 14 03:31:09 I figure you're looking at the CO2 values the wrong way May 14 03:31:12 but as for irc, I want to get shit done too :) May 14 03:31:34 Think of how much would be consumed if you had to drive to the library. May 14 03:31:37 Or, hell, walk. May 14 03:31:57 doc|home, sure, but having access the internet practically anywhere is really great. May 14 03:32:01 not to mention the manufacturing of those books May 14 03:32:10 the heating for the library May 14 03:32:20 half my brain runs on the internet May 14 03:32:22 GeneralAntilles: rogers-- :) May 14 03:32:48 doc|home, yeah, I tether on a $15/mo plan on AT&T May 14 03:33:54 any bandwidth cap? May 14 03:34:01 I'd like that if it wasn't at&t May 14 03:34:12 doc|home, the claim is "unlimited" May 14 03:34:18 nice May 14 03:34:27 But I'd bet they'd start looking at you funny if you started pushing more than 10GB May 14 03:34:40 I don't really do anything particularly data intensive, though. May 14 03:34:57 Last time I checked I had hit about 800MB in one month. May 14 03:35:16 here, rogers cheapest is 500mb for $25 May 14 03:35:36 plus "system access fee" of 6.95 May 14 03:36:11 I'm amazed at how bad it is up there. May 14 03:36:42 With your population density I'd figure they'd be beating down the doors to sell cheap cellular data access. May 14 03:36:57 Legislated cellular monopolies or something? May 14 03:37:19 pretty much May 14 03:37:25 Fun stuff May 14 03:37:40 the top dog at the communications regulator is a former bell and telus exec May 14 03:37:54 more competition on the way allegedly but I'm not holding my breath May 14 03:38:10 Yeah May 14 03:38:22 It's amazing the kinds of people they tend to install in those positions May 14 03:38:52 not if you understand politics :( May 14 03:39:14 Hehe, well. . . . May 14 03:39:19 :) May 14 03:39:21 It's disgusting, anyway. May 14 03:39:23 yep May 14 03:39:32 I'm personally in favor of firing them all out of a cannon into the sun. May 14 03:39:36 indeed May 14 03:39:40 deregulate the entire thing May 14 03:40:06 It's incredible that they can get away with pissing all over the constitution down here without anybody batting an eye. May 14 03:40:20 That shit should be treason. May 14 03:40:26 it is, isn't it? May 14 03:40:34 swearing an oath, then ignoring it? May 14 03:40:48 Clearly not, because none of them have been shot yet. :D May 14 03:41:02 because who's going to do it? Other politicians? :D May 14 03:41:15 I'll be happy to volunteer. ;) May 14 03:41:16 no point in pissing off the current holder of the pie if you want a piece May 14 03:41:18 GeneralAntilles: they're too powerful May 14 03:41:32 luke-jr_, psh May 14 03:41:38 GeneralAntilles: wave to the NSA. Remember, they're friendly with your data provider :) May 14 03:41:47 * doc|home waves May 14 03:41:49 GeneralAntilles: the batting of eyes tends to be in the form of suicide May 14 03:41:56 doc|home, don't use AT&T at home. :D May 14 03:41:57 it's quite common these days May 14 03:42:00 GeneralAntilles: hehe May 14 03:42:04 They're only powerful because we let them dupe us into fighting eachother instead of fighting them. May 14 03:42:06 yeah, where do you think Alpha came from? May 14 03:42:09 GeneralAntilles: aye May 14 03:42:15 fireun: alpha? May 14 03:42:43 http://www.wolframalpha.com/index.html May 14 03:42:52 Democrats vs Republicans is just a ploy to keep everybody occupied while they slowly take away our rights. May 14 03:42:58 http://gizmodo.com/5167257/wolfram-alpha-search-engine-will-answer-all-your-questions-take-us-to-infinity-and-beyond May 14 03:43:20 fireun: nowhere that will allow it to work? May 14 03:43:25 GeneralAntilles: absolutely May 14 03:43:26 GeneralAntilles: slowly? May 14 03:43:33 GeneralAntilles: try exercising your rights even today May 14 03:43:48 you might get away with talking about them May 14 03:44:03 luke-jr_, however bad it seems, we still have the power to change things. May 14 03:44:06 but try to actually exercise them and you'll get punished May 14 03:44:12 We're not quite at the armed revolution stage yet. May 14 03:44:25 Vote the bastards out. May 14 03:44:26 don't try too hard May 14 03:44:29 :) May 14 03:44:31 GeneralAntilles: you can't May 14 03:44:39 doc|home: what? May 14 03:44:39 the power is in the hands of the unelected May 14 03:44:50 doc|home: rephrase please May 14 03:44:50 Sure, because the vast majority of people are under their control. May 14 03:44:54 fireun: it doesn't work, you can't use it May 14 03:45:00 not yet May 14 03:45:08 its still may yet May 14 03:45:10 But, trust me, you get enough people to vote them out, it'll work May 14 03:45:13 For a few more years yet, anyway. May 14 03:45:41 you think a judge can be voted out? May 14 03:45:48 or a state employee? May 14 03:46:05 GeneralAntilles: if there was someone to vote for :/ The sheep don't even realise/care May 14 03:46:07 luke-jr_, depends on your municipality. May 14 03:46:16 GeneralAntilles: they think obama is good change.... May 14 03:46:34 doc|laptop, sure, but that's a different issue than it being impossible to vote them out. May 14 03:46:36 Hehe May 14 03:46:38 I would have voted for Obama. May 14 03:46:44 Obama sells warm fuzzies. May 14 03:46:47 because McCain was no-change May 14 03:46:47 luke-jr: he's all the same May 14 03:46:50 Warm fuzzies are a popular product. May 14 03:46:55 Obama at least brings hope of the USA collapsing May 14 03:46:56 luke-jr: and obama's change was... ? May 14 03:47:07 luke-jr: no, he'll just speed it up May 14 03:47:10 exactly May 14 03:47:15 the sooner the better May 14 03:47:27 There is something to that May 14 03:47:35 But my worry is that something worse will take its place May 14 03:47:46 Or something really irreversible will happen in the process. May 14 03:47:47 GeneralAntilles: I saw Lewis Black at the weekend and he was saying exactly the same thing, both parties are the same, but then he turned around and said capitalism was greed and the banks weren't regulated enough, when regulation is the only thing keeping them alive. May 14 03:47:50 GeneralAntilles: perhaps, but not as large a reason May 14 03:47:56 region* May 14 03:48:07 doc|home, yeah, that's called a cognitive disconnect. :D May 14 03:48:13 if we end up with 50 countries, at least some of them might be tolerable May 14 03:48:28 GeneralAntilles: sure, but he's still miles ahead of the sheep :/ May 14 03:48:45 GeneralAntilles: scary, because that's the nonsense we'll have to deal with :/ May 14 03:48:51 (when it collapses) May 14 03:49:41 IMO, the US is too far gone to be worth trying to save May 14 03:49:48 collapse and rebuild is faster May 14 03:49:58 I disagree May 14 03:50:00 yay agrarian society! May 14 03:50:05 you clearly have no experience with a collapsed state May 14 03:50:15 kfx: at least anarchy doesn't protect the criminals May 14 03:50:24 I think we're at the point where two things can happen. Either we get to the point where people start to "get" it and we still have time to fix things May 14 03:50:26 uh May 14 03:50:30 without the state, I can use armed defense May 14 03:50:32 when was the last time you got shot May 14 03:50:42 or we get to that point and nothing changes and things just fall apart anyway. May 14 03:50:54 are you in the habit of checking your ammo loadout before you go get water May 14 03:51:08 kfx: I didn't say I was prepared :) May 14 03:51:11 because I've been there and this doesn't suck at all in comparison May 14 03:51:16 that kind of stress really wears you down May 14 03:51:31 forget being able to think meta, you're down to basic instincts May 14 03:51:50 kfx: it's not over yet May 14 03:51:55 kfx: far from it May 14 03:52:07 kfx: the fact is, politicians are making it far worse May 14 03:52:09 when I got back to the states it took concerted mental effort not to reach for a weapon at every road intersection May 14 03:52:22 kfx: from... ? May 14 03:52:31 it's nice not having to wake up in the morning and check your pistol May 14 03:52:45 the road thing happened after a while in afghanistan May 14 03:52:52 kfx: better than waking up in the morning and realizing there's nothing you can do to stop the torture May 14 03:52:53 see, that wasn't anarchy May 14 03:52:58 doc|laptop: hahahaha ok May 14 03:53:01 the first fourth of july was real bad May 14 03:53:05 go hang out north of kandahar for a while May 14 03:53:14 kfx: it's chaos, but that's an incorrect definition of anarchy May 14 03:53:17 kfx: I can't, I'm a prisoner of the state. May 14 03:53:21 doc|laptop: you're mincing words May 14 03:53:29 kfx: not at all. Look up agorism. May 14 03:53:36 I'm not talking about politics May 14 03:53:41 kfx: we are :) May 14 03:53:41 I'm talking about a collapsed state May 14 03:53:47 no politics, period May 14 03:53:57 I'm familiar with the definition of anarchy and agorism May 14 03:54:09 kfx: a great idea. No one taking my taxes? I pay for things I use myself? May 14 03:54:09 I'm *more* familiar with what happens when a government falls May 14 03:54:21 kfx: ok, so you're talking about the medium term. May 14 03:54:52 kfx: in my situation where my family is being held hostage and the government stands in the way of armed rescue, anarchy is superior May 14 03:55:00 doc|laptop: he's familiar with the experience, not the concept May 14 03:55:08 your idealism won't help you survive the near-term, doc|laptop May 14 03:55:35 kfx: it won't, but it does help me realise I am on my own. When the government collapses who's paying the police? May 14 03:55:42 the food hidden in the walls might May 14 03:55:48 kfx: I do realise however that I can pay someone to help protect me May 14 03:55:56 no, you can't May 14 03:55:57 kfx: most people won't realise that. May 14 03:56:00 kfx: why not? May 14 03:56:01 there's no enforcement of contract law May 14 03:56:08 you make a deal, he gets the money, you die May 14 03:56:10 sometimes to prevent having to be on your own, you have to work with others May 14 03:56:12 then he gets everything else May 14 03:56:20 kfx: so you pay after the fact May 14 03:56:37 kfx: I can enforce that contract law myself should they breach it May 14 03:56:41 nobody accepts that May 14 03:56:44 money up front May 14 03:56:47 no contract law, no trust May 14 03:57:10 there's little enforcing contract law now anyway May 14 03:57:10 kfx: I wouldn't pay anyone I don't trust May 14 03:57:11 if you're paying someone to protect you, they by definition are stronger than you and/or in a position to kill you May 14 03:57:28 luke-jr_: in the US? that's a ridiculous statement May 14 03:57:29 kfx: not at all. If I pay them then I can do what I'm good at. May 14 03:57:34 * fireun removes himself from the discussion May 14 03:57:37 this whole country is built on contract law May 14 03:57:52 kfx: governments often undermine contract law May 14 03:58:03 kfx, basic assumption seems to be that people are basically evil. May 14 03:58:03 kfx: if I don't pay a bill, nothing bad will happen to me May 14 03:58:11 * GeneralAntilles agrees with fireun. May 14 03:58:11 kfx++, everyone else is being hilariously optimistic May 14 03:58:15 kfx: if the worst comes to the worst I could protect myself, but I would choose to pay someone because it's financially better for me to do so May 14 03:58:16 GeneralAntilles: that would be a correct assumption May 14 03:58:30 hey GeneralAntilles :) May 14 03:58:33 GeneralAntilles: basic assumption is that people with no prospects will stop at nothing to gain any advantage May 14 03:58:39 Hi, johnx. :) May 14 03:58:41 johnx: haha, optimism is something I've never been accused of in a discussion like this May 14 03:58:45 Recovered from the roadtrip? May 14 03:58:51 doc|laptop: you're definitely displaying it May 14 03:59:00 it's either a profound optimism or a profound naivete May 14 03:59:04 GeneralAntilles, yup, and starting to settle into my new job May 14 03:59:12 johnx? May 14 03:59:20 * GeneralAntilles wonders who the hell john_G1 is. . . . May 14 03:59:23 kfx: why? because I'm willing to pay someone for security? Stores do it all the time, do you see store security robbing the store customers/management? May 14 03:59:49 doc|laptop: because you think money will mean anything in a post-state environment, for one May 14 03:59:50 no G1 here. it'll be a Freerunner before a G1 :P May 14 04:00:04 kfx: that is an entirely different question May 14 04:00:34 money is also based on contract law May 14 04:00:34 unless you're talking about barter, but if you make it known you own something of value someone'll just kill you for it May 14 04:00:50 I watched a kid steal a pistol magazine once May 14 04:00:59 johnx, sorry, the question was: New job? :) May 14 04:01:05 kfx: oh, well, that one example... fine, you win... May 14 04:01:10 he made it about three blocks before some passing man saw it, shot him, took the clip, and disappeared May 14 04:01:24 it was representative of the bahavior pattern in the area May 14 04:01:35 GeneralAntilles, a new old job. Back at the job I had before I moved to Japan (and totally thrilled with it) May 14 04:01:43 Ah May 14 04:02:00 kfx: if that was normal then we'd do that as part of our normal day to day lives. The police here are more likely to taser a person than to protect them. May 14 04:02:11 it's far easier to work with people than fight them constantly May 14 04:02:26 that is why trade/barter came about in the first place May 14 04:02:36 and gold/silver are really just proxies for barter May 14 04:02:39 I hope you never have the chance to find out how incredibly incorrect your assumptions are there May 14 04:03:09 kfx: would you not agree that most of the problems in that country come from different groups attempting to have control of it? May 14 04:03:15 It's always far, far easier to shoot someone and take what you want May 14 04:03:22 that in day to day business, people trade rather than rob? May 14 04:03:33 not really May 14 04:03:37 oh come on... May 14 04:03:44 I'm not buying that for a moment May 14 04:04:00 if that were the case, no trade would exist anywhere in the world May 14 04:04:08 it really doesn't take huge percentage of criminals to totally destabilize a country May 14 04:04:19 don't care what you buy May 14 04:04:34 kfx: you don't see the flaw in that logic? May 14 04:04:38 people who can afford to protect themselves travel a long way to do business in the relatively lawful areas May 14 04:05:26 johnx: I'm not arguing otherwise, but I'm saying that you don't need a giant political machine which takes 30-50% of your income every year just to facilitate trade May 14 04:05:41 doc|laptop: I agree with that May 14 04:05:46 doc|home, so where are your counter examples of people living in peace and harmony without a government? May 14 04:05:49 but it's not "no government" or "huge government" May 14 04:05:59 there are middle paths to take May 14 04:06:17 and my whole point is that "no government" is far worse than you can apparently imagine May 14 04:06:23 this isn't hypothetical, by the way May 14 04:06:25 kfx: destruction of huge government is faster than reduction May 14 04:06:47 luke-jr_: yeah, because solid political theory is always founded on "how fast can we..." May 14 04:06:48 kfx: no government just requires preparation May 14 04:06:49 johnx: it's not perfect, but if you look at somalia, which has it's own legal system, in comparison to some of its neighbours it's doing much better. And you can talk about piracy but I see little difference between piracy and state tariffs. May 14 04:07:03 luke-jr, and jumping out of an airplane is faster than waiting for it to land May 14 04:07:04 kfx: while my family is held hostage, speed is of utmost importance May 14 04:07:15 gandhi's most famous quote was "passive resistance takes too long let's burn this shit down" May 14 04:07:20 kfx: and I couldn't care less about the general welfare of people May 14 04:07:42 doc|laptop: hahahaha "somalia", "legal system" May 14 04:07:46 kfx: sure, I'd much rather the middle path, less government to no government. But it can still happen. May 14 04:07:48 have you ever set foot in somalia May 14 04:08:08 kfx: you laugh, but outside of the areas being fought over, the economy there is working well. May 14 04:08:13 somalia's even worse than afghanistan May 14 04:08:20 and if you don't believe that, then it's research time May 14 04:08:23 I spent a week in mogadishu and I still can't believe I'm still alive May 14 04:08:34 which is one of the fought over areas... right? May 14 04:09:18 there's plenty of the country which is both peaceful and improving. May 14 04:09:19 ok May 14 04:09:19 send me a postcard May 14 04:09:28 but do it right after you get off the plane, because otherwise you won't have the chance May 14 04:09:35 doc|laptop, how about a different example then? May 14 04:09:45 Chile? May 14 04:10:12 kfx: nice, take cheap shots just to ignore my point. May 14 04:10:24 doc|laptop: you're working on unreliable information May 14 04:10:27 johnx: there aren't any. Politics makes sure of that. May 14 04:10:35 you don't really have a point, just some thoughts about how you think people work May 14 04:10:36 kfx: that also is not any sort of useful response. May 14 04:10:45 I've got over a decade of experience in lawless areas May 14 04:10:53 kfx: please, do some research on this. May 14 04:11:02 I've personally been to lots of these places May 14 04:11:10 I've done my research with my own eyes, on the ground May 14 04:11:12 kfx: I've got over a year of torture by the state of Nebraska. May 14 04:11:13 kfx: see, I'm not talking about lawless, I'm talking about governmentless. May 14 04:11:19 kfx: there is a difference. May 14 04:11:24 meaningless semantics May 14 04:11:35 kfx: not at all. May 14 04:11:38 doc|laptop, soooo, kind of an opt-in legal system? :> May 14 04:11:41 I could just as easily posit that any law-producing body is a de facto government May 14 04:12:25 you can split hairs over your terminology; I've been there, and I see how people actually live in real life May 14 04:12:44 kfx wins one internet. new discussion. May 14 04:12:48 johnx: to some extent. One sec. May 14 04:13:12 for the first time this week, I'm actually gonna go to bed before midnight May 14 04:13:12 kfx: depends on how you define it May 14 04:13:20 'night kfx :) May 14 04:13:30 in a house with no guns, because I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where that's not a fatal oversight May 14 04:13:33 :D May 14 04:13:33 night all May 14 04:13:38 * doc|laptop sighs May 14 04:13:51 kfx: one sec May 14 04:14:31 johnx: do a ctrl-f for "jilab" http://mises.org/story/2066 May 14 04:15:16 that will give you a general overview, then I'd suggest reading it from the top :) It's very interesting (to me :) ) May 14 04:15:20 kfx: ^ May 14 04:16:00 sorry, jilib May 14 04:16:26 I'm sensing some bias May 14 04:16:56 johnx: read it first, it's the experience of someone (a westerner iirc) who married a somalian and lived there for years. May 14 04:17:37 nah, I'll just pass on this discussion. for the first time this week I have hacking to do that's not work related ;) May 14 04:18:36 johnx: you peed all over the idea, then when given information on a case, you ignore it. Then you'll bitch when having to pay taxes :) May 14 04:19:01 doc|laptop, nope. I love paying taxes May 14 04:19:12 I'd love it even more if it covered social health care May 14 04:19:19 I'd gladly pay more even May 14 04:19:40 the government can tax you 100% and still not meet it's existing obligations. Good luck with that... May 14 04:19:50 it's mathematically impossible May 14 04:19:53 and, BTW, it's your biased source that I take issue with wading through May 14 04:20:00 * doc|laptop shrugs May 14 04:20:07 doc|laptop, the difference is I've personally seen social health care work May 14 04:20:24 and you've never lived in a governmentless state May 14 04:20:31 johnx: you have? I'm living in a country where it exists and sucks, coming from a country where it exists, and sucks. May 14 04:21:03 yup, sometimes it sucks, but if implemented properly it sucks less than the alternatives May 14 04:21:08 mars is still pretty empty of govement May 14 04:21:24 but you may have to wait awhile for the immigration office to open May 14 04:21:29 johnx: with no competition, unlikely May 14 04:22:54 and I'm not really sure what bias you're talking about, it's a piece on a book that was written by a person who lives in the country... what more do you want? :/ May 14 04:23:00 anyway, I've things to do May 14 04:23:17 21:32 doc|home, yeah, I tether on a $15/mo plan on AT&T May 14 04:23:18 21:33 any bandwidth cap? May 14 04:23:18 21:34 I'd like that if it wasn't at&t May 14 04:23:19 I was referring mostly the bias of the site May 14 04:23:33 johnx: bias? May 14 04:23:36 I tether with a $15/month plan from Verizon... May 14 04:23:49 doc|laptop, uhm, the whole site seems to be pretty anti-government May 14 04:23:59 (no cap) May 14 04:24:02 johnx: sure, you expect to see that posted on whitehouse.gov? May 14 04:24:28 sneakret: yeah, I'm in Canada there. Not a lot of competition here to drive prices down. :( May 14 04:24:38 doc|laptop, eh, they have bias too May 14 04:24:43 s/there/here May 14 04:25:10 Prices are pretty bad in the states too. I had to tweak my phone to get tethering to work. May 14 04:25:15 johnx: and? Again, a piece written by them based on a book you can go out and buy May 14 04:25:19 otherwise they wanted $30/month May 14 04:25:32 johnx: and as far as I know, that person wasn't in any way linked with them May 14 04:25:50 doc|laptop, there's bias. I have better things to do. if you want to think you've won the discussion, then feel free May 14 04:26:30 johnx: I didn't think it was about winning anything.... It was about explaining this May 14 04:26:44 for me anyway May 14 04:26:46 anyway May 14 04:26:48 I've things to do May 14 04:27:03 me too :) May 14 04:27:16 maybe later I'll have time to read and we can go in depth May 14 04:27:24 and I'll tell you about what working social healthcare is like May 14 04:28:06 sure, happy to discuss it. This might not be the best place though. Bye May 14 04:28:16 'later May 14 04:28:42 m00f RST38h May 14 04:28:47 heya johnx May 14 04:29:36 how's the weather over there lately? :) May 14 04:30:32 +8..+10oC, rain May 14 04:30:43 * RST38h got soaked yesterday May 14 04:30:59 yeah, it rained today here and everyone started driving with their butts May 14 04:31:24 I flooded here today May 14 04:31:33 after an hour of what should have been a 30 minute drive I pulled off, got something to eat and let the traffic die down May 14 04:31:35 First rain we've had in weeks and weeks and it comes with hail May 14 04:31:39 GeneralAntilles: where is your high water mark? May 14 04:32:00 i want to join ZFT May 14 04:32:01 :) May 14 04:32:11 fireun, when I have to detour around an intersection because the water's too high. :P May 14 04:32:17 Macer: you watch too much tv May 14 04:32:21 haha May 14 04:32:28 i got hurt a week ago May 14 04:32:35 sorry to hear it May 14 04:32:36 so i've been watching everythig like a fucking vegetable May 14 04:32:37 * johnx steers for the deep puddles May 14 04:32:42 fireun, when we don't get rain for a while the storm drains tend to get stopped up May 14 04:32:48 so it floods in interesting ways. May 14 04:32:50 Macer: and its season finale week May 14 04:32:54 you must too if you know what it was fireun May 14 04:32:56 :) May 14 04:33:07 Woo! 5800 tomorrow. May 14 04:33:11 GeneralAntilles: I lived where the ground was so hard and dry, any amount of rain turned into a flash flood May 14 04:33:35 it has been storming for a long time today May 14 04:33:41 Macer: guilty May 14 04:33:52 johnx, I think I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to do non-touchscreen mobile devices. May 14 04:34:08 haha May 14 04:34:11 Looking back, there hasn't been a single one that hasn't managed to thoroughly piss me off. May 14 04:34:29 i'm watching the one where the woman just left the bus, started on fire.. and exploded May 14 04:34:29 So it came down to E71 or 5800 and I went with the 5800. May 14 04:34:32 my phone isn't pissing me off that much, but it's just a phone May 14 04:34:43 <- big fan of phones with some physical keys May 14 04:35:00 johnx, I fail miserably at T9 and I'm not a fan of itty bitty QWERTY boards. May 14 04:35:01 physical keys May 14 04:35:16 Virtual finger keyboards, however, I can do. ; ) May 14 04:35:25 ah, I got used to T9. Just takes me a while to properly build the dictionary I like May 14 04:35:34 :) May 14 04:35:45 i hate T9 May 14 04:36:03 it's all about qwerty phones May 14 04:36:07 :) May 14 04:36:13 johnx, I'm quite sure I could get used to it. May 14 04:36:17 But I don't really want to. May 14 04:36:26 fair enough May 14 04:36:27 omg now it's storming again May 14 04:36:33 I'm used to getting used to things May 14 04:36:36 Besides, I like being able to poke things without trying to find them with a dpad May 14 04:36:37 wtf... it stops then starts .. it is rather soothing though May 14 04:36:44 even macs don't make me that crazy anymore May 14 04:36:56 johnx, I'm used to getting used to things that I want to get used to. :D May 14 04:37:15 T9 is not one of those things, since my future plans all involve some sort of reasonable sized keyboard. May 14 04:37:17 IT means I get paid to get used to whatever else someone pays me to get used to :) May 14 04:37:34 <- department of redundancy department May 14 04:39:15 johnx: don't know how you keep your sanity May 14 04:39:53 johnx, "paid" is the operative term there May 14 04:40:40 GeneralAntilles, yup. are you saying no one's even paying you to use that mac? O_o; May 14 04:41:09 * johnx ducks May 14 04:41:57 johnx, well, I use it to do productive work related things from time to time. . . May 14 04:42:05 But, anyway, it's what I grew up with. May 14 04:42:15 It sure as hell works better than this GNOME piece of shit. :) May 14 04:43:03 I actually have gnome and mac setup almost comparably now. both would probably drive anyone besides me nuts :> May 14 04:43:38 GNOME is ok May 14 04:44:07 MacOS left me somewhat disappointed though: lots of eye candy, but hellishly difficult to do certain things May 14 04:44:30 yeah, it's not bad if you let it bend you to its workflow May 14 04:44:40 the lack of 'focus follows pointer, no autoraise' drives me a little insane May 14 04:44:57 you actually like focus follows pointer? May 14 04:45:20 johnx: I absolutely hate this "workflow" thing May 14 04:45:32 johnx: when I say "jump" it should jump. Hence my usage of PICO :) May 14 04:45:35 Macer, yup, and I have it set so windows don't raise even when I click inside them May 14 04:45:45 I liked focus follows pointers until people started making multiple panelled applications :( May 14 04:45:52 * johnx is ok with emacs or vi May 14 04:46:14 actually, I like pico and joe as well May 14 04:46:29 wow. haven't used joe in a long time May 14 04:46:38 me neither May 14 04:46:39 * RST38h used joe on FreeBSD, a while ago May 14 04:46:44 got used to vi May 14 04:46:54 i never memorized all the vi commands May 14 04:47:02 only basic editing May 14 04:47:05 (even used Emacs, long time ago, at the university, before finding the 'pico' command) May 14 04:47:06 I started using joe/jpico when RedHat pulled pico from its default install May 14 04:47:33 errr...or maybe when I switched to debian May 14 04:47:36 is rhel pay only? May 14 04:47:52 like you can only get it if you pay for it? May 14 04:48:35 yup, but look up CentOS May 14 04:49:07 oh i know centos is the same thingish May 14 04:49:11 Fedora too May 14 04:49:13 but i never really looked at rhel May 14 04:49:24 centos sucks moose balls May 14 04:49:31 to see if it was something that you can only get if you pay for it May 14 04:49:32 it does May 14 04:49:33 big ones May 14 04:49:37 big hairy ones May 14 04:49:38 RST38h: i use it for my zimbra server May 14 04:49:39 :) May 14 04:49:48 and their IRC channel is even worse May 14 04:49:50 it runs May 14 04:50:18 $349 for a basic 1 yr sub May 14 04:50:20 wow May 14 04:50:40 that's ms server pricing :) May 14 04:50:44 Macer: you probably did not have to do anything complicated May 14 04:51:10 * RST38h remembers some package requiring the latest version of Python or PERL (don't remember) May 14 04:51:19 RST38h: not really. just zimbra May 14 04:51:35 After that new version was installed, the whole package management system broke completely May 14 04:51:48 RST38h: reminds me of gentoo May 14 04:51:52 * johnx remembers upgrading RHEL4, inside a point release, and it just failing to boot May 14 04:51:58 Because it relied on the older version of PERL/Python and did not come with its own install in some safe place May 14 04:52:18 RST38h: definately sounds like gentoo :) May 14 04:52:50 Macer: To hell with them all. I am used to FreeBSD which never ever breaks unless you hit it with a lightning bolt May 14 04:52:57 And this Linux crap drives me mad. May 14 04:53:09 :) i'm sad to say i agree with you May 14 04:53:16 but i do like nexenta May 14 04:53:34 heh...nexenta was kinda b0rken last time I tried May 14 04:53:36 * RST38h kinda came to peace with Ubuntu/Debian, which do not act up too much, but the other distros just drive him mad May 14 04:53:50 johnx: i'm using it for my fs May 14 04:54:03 so far it's been pretty solid May 14 04:54:09 RST38h, with you on that :) May 14 04:54:21 i think lenny is pretty nice May 14 04:54:29 but it's the ext2/3 that linux is still stuck with May 14 04:54:58 eh, ext3 never did me wrong May 14 04:55:06 :) May 14 04:55:14 make huge storage with it May 14 04:55:20 and tell me that again May 14 04:56:31 huge storage? May 14 04:56:32 how big? May 14 04:56:50 something past 5TB? :) May 14 04:57:04 aaaand, what happens then? May 14 04:57:06 16TB May 14 04:57:07 heh May 14 04:57:32 I think we're pushing at least 4TB at work with no real problems May 14 04:57:32 some things are like sex. they are just meant to be experienced May 14 04:58:06 so, is this like sex or like falling down the stairs May 14 04:58:08 ? May 14 04:58:38 having sex while falling down the stairs May 14 04:58:55 heh.. ok. i need to get some sleep May 14 04:59:36 apparently May 14 05:00:42 http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/obamaspock-275x235.jpg May 14 05:04:28 spock was smarter than becoming US president May 14 05:12:08 * man_in_ltop waves May 14 05:12:21 what's a good quick sketch app for maemo? :D May 14 05:12:44 liqbase, Xournal, MaemoPad+ May 14 05:20:23 xournal is nice May 14 05:21:43 needs an update though May 14 05:21:57 what update? May 14 05:23:53 whatever is in extras-devel version has to get debugged and merged into official one May 14 05:25:20 ok May 14 05:29:22 lots of offtopic threads lately... May 14 05:29:52 unless nokia releases something soon, it is all going downhill =( May 14 05:31:04 yeah, seems like things are kind of hanging in limbo. I guess that's the danger of a software platform that doesn't really run on the existing hardware May 14 05:31:27 RST38h, encourage rumour on Star Trek, Maemo and 'Rover' May 14 05:32:01 (a codename we saw) May 14 05:32:39 I can say for certain that maemo guys are hard at work on the next maemo device, so no limbo, just not talking :) May 14 05:33:20 it's causing community psychosis to wait :> May 14 05:33:28 Sts: Exactly May 14 05:33:39 Sts: And then everybody gets tired and goes away May 14 05:34:40 ljp, oh, the people *here* definitely know, but I think it's causing some people to hold off 1) buying tablets and 2) starting projects May 14 05:35:16 RST38h, a couple people getting tired actually seems preferable to things fragmenting in 6 different directions May 14 05:36:10 johnx: if these people are your whole community... May 14 05:36:37 RST38h, we can renew interest, it's hard to un-fragment May 14 05:38:35 if they make a n810-compat OS with wpa-eap/pap, i'll be happy :P May 14 05:52:59 Toshiba slapped 512GB SSD drive into an R600 May 14 05:53:29 (instead of fixing the LCD :)) May 14 05:54:44 512GB ssd? May 14 05:56:57 gah, now my n810 won't boot again May 14 05:59:00 ah, flat battery May 14 05:59:24 someone turned off my charger May 14 06:05:20 morning May 14 06:06:19 morning thux May 14 06:34:11 If anybody interested, AlmostTI source code is now available athttp://fms.komkon.org/ATI85/ May 14 06:35:22 woo :) May 14 06:35:26 what license, out of curiousity? May 14 06:35:43 (i'm not going to ask "why not gpl", in case you wonder) May 14 06:37:33 Sts: no commercial use, have to make a reference to me when using it otherwise May 14 06:37:38 fair enough May 14 06:37:53 Sts: and yes, if you do not make major changes to the code, do not call it a different name :) May 14 06:38:26 hehe.. i had that with my ircd May 14 06:38:29 but through a sneaky trick May 14 06:38:46 if you were able to figure out what made it crash if you changed the ircd name, you were allowed to change the name ;) May 14 06:38:52 that kept forks at a record low May 14 06:38:57 heh May 14 06:39:50 and manifested the 83% dominance on the ircd market ;) May 14 06:40:04 !!! May 14 06:40:21 Btw, would you care to dump your 84+ ROM? May 14 06:40:47 yeah - i just have a couple of things to do but i'll work on it when i get a free moment May 14 06:40:58 Thanks - it should be relatively easy too May 14 06:41:14 i bought the 84+ and used it for one measly exam. May 14 06:58:22 Morning, all May 14 07:00:48 RST38h: pfft, non-Free May 14 07:01:59 RST38h: false advertising on the page, since it isn't Free May 14 07:05:45 luke: it isn't RMS-free May 14 07:06:05 luke: do you see any mention of RMS at the page? May 14 07:06:12 http://www.opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical lots to choose from May 14 07:06:53 RST38h: "free" is independent of RMS May 14 07:07:10 it's an English word even! May 14 07:07:51 maybe you mean "free of charge", a small subset of "free" also known as "gratis" May 14 07:12:57 luke: ATI85 is free in terms of English May 14 07:16:39 i have always wondered which one is more 'free' bsd-license or gpl-license May 14 07:16:53 depends if you're a gnubie or not May 14 07:17:00 In terms of things you can do, BSD license is better May 14 07:17:24 GPL comes with strings attached, BSD is "do what you want" type May 14 07:18:03 ok seems clear May 14 08:12:55 hi anyone here May 14 08:13:10 I have experienced issues with my chat client May 14 08:13:15 I get duplicate and even triplicate contacts May 14 08:13:27 is there a way to get rid fo them without deleating the contact? May 14 08:13:36 my guess is that they are just nodes in an XML file May 14 08:13:43 anyone can help me out debug this May 14 08:18:26 ICQ? May 14 08:18:27 where can I find the specs for the maemo chat May 14 08:22:42 dear god on the participants list for danish weekend: May 14 08:22:43 | 48 || doe john || || null May 14 08:23:36 where can I find the specs for the maemo chat May 14 08:23:48 are || participants too? May 14 08:24:25 I think I'll try to come to the Amsterdam thing in October.. May 14 08:24:32 Want to visit some friends in Holland anyway. :-) May 14 08:24:46 And should probably de-register myself from Den Haag. ;) May 14 08:46:48 This netbook I would probably buy: http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/14/asus-eee-keyboard-to-launch-by-end-of-june/ May 14 08:50:31 crashanddie: hey... May 14 08:50:36 * timeless_mbp_ is scared May 14 08:50:40 Ok... what on earth can that be good at? May 14 08:51:45 Irc while you play? May 14 08:52:06 always good? :P May 14 08:52:09 (and can I have that with keytronic ergoforce keyboard please :)) May 14 08:52:45 Razumihin: prolly not =) May 14 08:53:02 Razumihin: but it if can play movies well, it will make a decent video center May 14 08:53:08 w/ hdmi for the real display May 14 08:53:20 the touch display can be for things like enter a pin or sign your name May 14 08:53:32 or a game / special nav/input region May 14 08:55:50 The mother (and father) of all remote controls May 14 08:56:49 Hmh... is maemo mapper just pure gtk... I think I could make those menus less confusing someday... May 14 08:56:58 RST38h, i would have one but for the fact im a left hander and cant use that side, and also my keyboard gets tonnes of crap on it May 14 08:57:07 Who the heck has invented the option orders... May 14 08:57:13 lcuk: turn it upside down then :) May 14 08:57:17 RST38h: without infrared and bluetooth? May 14 08:57:39 suhkulokki: Yes. WiFi is sufficient. And they seem to promise some wireless video link for it. May 14 08:57:42 I think if I would try to find "show me my position" button while i was driving I would hit something. May 14 08:58:24 RazumihinL Want to improve maemo mapper, start by adding overlaid "my position", "zoom in", and "zoom out" buttons a la Map application May 14 08:58:43 RST38h: Yep. That's my plan... May 14 08:58:45 heh RST38h May 14 08:59:10 For zooming i prefer the hw keys, but slider would be ok. May 14 08:59:11 the most novel thing ive seen like that has been putting LCD into the touchpad on a laptop May 14 08:59:13 Razumihin: don't gps and drive May 14 08:59:15 cant remember where i saw it.. May 14 08:59:23 Razumihin: this is the most obvious problem with its UI and the developer does not like overlaid buttons for some reason May 14 08:59:23 timeless_mbp: I normally irc and drive... May 14 08:59:25 mornin timeless \o May 14 08:59:33 it's explicitly in the manual .... May 14 08:59:36 hi lcuk May 14 08:59:40 Razumihin: slider is actually worse than two buttons with + and - May 14 08:59:44 it's 2am, so yes, technically May 14 09:00:05 Oh, speaking of which I have to go and turn my parking disc... May 14 09:00:11 Razumihin: Slider is harder to control, especially considering high CPU usage that will make UI hang when you slide May 14 09:00:24 RST38h: Yeah, true. May 14 09:00:28 Maybe buttons then. May 14 09:00:30 RST38h, a real proper variable rheostat slider :D May 14 09:00:34 But let's see when I have time.. May 14 09:00:49 lcuk: I am sure RX-51 will have one :) May 14 09:00:53 dinner-> May 14 09:00:56 hahahahah May 14 09:01:41 Seriously, why doesn't Nokia release at least one or two steampunk-stylized devices? May 14 09:02:02 They make all kinds of weird designer crap why no steampunk? May 14 09:02:05 cos its all fun and games until someone pokes their eye out May 14 09:02:05 wooden rx-51? ;p May 14 09:02:18 beagleboard? May 14 09:02:23 * lcuk has a wooden 810 May 14 09:02:54 but you are right,asus are expanding their bamboo line i hear May 14 09:03:14 RST38h, you can punk your 8x0 right now May 14 09:03:29 all it needs is some sticky back plastic, a hot glue gun and some bits from the shed May 14 09:03:37 lcuk: yes but it is to dear to me and I am bad at modding :) May 14 09:04:18 heh its ok, Stskeeps is bad at dressmaking, but hes gotta stitch in 30 devices to make a dress May 14 09:04:35 I have already got steampunk nokia 9500 ;) May 14 09:05:14 cool May 14 09:06:16 Whttp://laite.ath.cx/9500STMPNK.jpg May 14 09:06:27 But the dinner ;) May 14 09:06:44 Base is fully black on that May 14 09:09:21 heh May 14 09:09:39 i thought this was an 810 from the thumbnail May 14 09:09:42 http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2008/7/steampunk-laptop-skin.jpg May 14 09:10:18 now what would be cool would be something like that, but when you press keys, the screen actually makes the innards move and stuff May 14 09:10:35 I have experienced issues with my chat client May 14 09:10:41 I get duplicate and even triplicate contacts May 14 09:10:48 is there a way to get rid fo them without deleating the contact? May 14 09:10:51 :( May 14 09:10:56 anyone can help me out debug this May 14 09:11:02 i dunno i dont use it sorry May 14 09:11:05 my guess is that they are just nodes in an XML file May 14 09:11:19 * RST38h uses Pidgin May 14 09:11:34 where can I find the specs for maemo chat? May 14 09:11:39 or the source May 14 09:11:44 pidgin is evil May 14 09:11:56 maemo chat is a jabber/xmpp client May 14 09:11:59 Pidgin is a bird. May 14 09:12:33 bbl anyway May 14 09:12:56 maemo chat? May 14 09:13:43 chat client that comes with maemo :P May 14 09:33:15 man_in_ltop: oh in which case May 14 09:33:30 damn. jza left before i could direct them to the telepathy source May 14 09:33:55 he probably wouldn't be able to make use of it anywya May 14 09:58:58 * Stskeeps wonders why there's matchbox-window-manager 1 development going on on the stage svn May 14 09:59:19 ? May 14 09:59:21 link May 14 09:59:41 well just that the old WM is still being developed May 14 10:00:35 i still poke around in some of my old code bases occasionally :P May 14 10:00:50 * lcuk made an alteration to one from 2001 just last week :D May 14 10:01:06 still, nokia normally doesn't do things for no reason May 14 10:01:43 thats true for any stable project May 14 10:02:34 Sts: really? =) May 14 10:03:01 Stskeeps: yeah I'd contest that :P May 14 10:03:18 but really, why work on a WM they don't use anymore? :P May 14 10:03:30 isnt it used in olpc May 14 10:09:32 * RST38h finally found who keeps him without 3G May 14 10:10:10 Freaking military is saying that 3g interferes with their frequencies May 14 10:10:27 lol May 14 10:13:23 :P May 14 10:13:24 nice. May 14 10:14:42 They do promise 3G on the subway by the end of 2Q2009 May 14 10:17:26 wb lardman May 14 10:17:33 * RST38h wonders what would military use 2.1GHz for: it is too short for long distance communications, radars would not care about some measly 3G stations, and the short distance comms are not traditionally using this band May 14 10:18:45 RST38h, isnt that microwave frequency, and arent the mil interested in crowd control.. May 14 10:19:06 lcuk: microwave is 2.4GH May 14 10:19:41 lcuk: Somehow, the military has swallowed all those ovens and wifi stations and didn't puke May 14 10:19:47 wtf @ thp's post May 14 10:20:14 But 2.1GHz they have problems with, afraid to take a bribe in the open or just want too much, dunno May 14 10:20:35 http://khan.thpinfo.com/~thp/tmp/frmntl/ May 14 10:21:11 (yes, i know that's probably vnc and such) May 14 10:21:24 vnc May 14 10:21:27 lol May 14 10:21:46 i will throw a honest to god fit if suddenly nokia comes out with fremantle for n8x0 :P May 14 10:22:04 Well, I don't see why what he shows can't run in n810. May 14 10:22:17 Sts" looks slow May 14 10:22:27 It is certainly not using any acceleration ;) May 14 10:22:28 yeah, i really wonder why use clutter in the first place May 14 10:22:36 ive been telling ppl this is a great way to feel it :) May 14 10:22:57 * RST38h does not get reasons behind clutter either May 14 10:23:17 Only used for bling? May 14 10:23:24 it looks like a really messy way to do Flash animations with glib May 14 10:23:48 X-Fade: isn May 14 10:23:55 t it kinda overkill for bling? :) May 14 10:24:12 RST38h: Nah, OpenGLES bling ;) May 14 10:24:27 * lcuk hates lag May 14 10:24:48 lcuk: It is probably used to display something during lag that is already there? May 14 10:24:54 can someone close the browser window on my machine i opened and now cant see anything with.. May 14 10:26:30 heh X-Fade it was movie lag May 14 10:26:57 grrrs @ sts May 14 10:36:43 so was that video with sw ogles? May 14 10:36:53 * lardman is a bit behind the times May 14 10:37:02 lardman: i think it was just VNC/something May 14 10:37:11 qoles trick :D May 14 10:37:36 oh, well that's a bit crap May 14 10:37:41 pardon my French May 14 10:37:51 lardman: if you listen to the music you'd understand :) May 14 10:38:54 ah, no speakers at work May 14 10:39:04 "wouldn't it be nice.." song :P May 14 10:39:18 at least the theme isn't orange. May 14 10:39:40 ah ok May 14 10:40:46 lardman, we need a progress bar for how much disassembly you have gotten through May 14 10:41:12 and we expect holly to help whilst on honeymoon May 14 10:41:23 lol May 14 10:41:50 nothing since yesterday, I was splitting the functions into their original source files (the names of which were included in the debugging info) May 14 10:41:53 where are you goin for that May 14 10:42:09 but might give that up as it looks a bit dodgy and some choices are hard May 14 10:42:14 Red Sea, Egypt May 14 10:42:28 at least its not mexico May 14 10:42:31 tablet on a pyramid pic ;p May 14 10:42:58 lardman: Hurgada? May 14 10:43:03 yeah, we were thinking of Mexico, thankfully we decided against May 14 10:43:06 lol if lardman tries that one, the next pic will be n810 in the nile May 14 10:43:35 closely followed by lardman in the nile :D May 14 10:43:39 X-Fade: looked at that, but decided for Sharm as we fancy some snorkelling, etc May 14 10:44:10 lardman: Did a lot of diving in Hurgada. Red sea is excellent for that. May 14 10:44:28 But.. I'll never go to Egypt again. May 14 10:44:30 I'm not a diver, though Holly is, so I want reefs close to the shore :) May 14 10:44:47 yeah, well we thought we'd take a chance and see how it goes... May 14 10:44:56 USA & Europe are really expensive for us atm May 14 10:45:07 Nature is very nice there. May 14 10:45:46 It is just that the people are so poor that they make walking around hard. And especially for women. May 14 10:45:49 just not the food? ;) May 14 10:46:11 And the armed soldiers at every corner weren't very nice too. May 14 10:46:13 yeah, well we're all set for a couple of weeks of chilling out and sunbathing, so no probs there May 14 10:46:20 sounds a bit like India May 14 10:46:21 The food? Well do you like stews? May 14 10:47:08 lardman: Yeah, as long as you stay in your resort/hotel is not a problem. May 14 10:49:15 .GR or .BG is the answer May 14 10:49:21 the reefs are close to the shore in Guam. ;) May 14 10:49:38 Not as nice sea but at least you can walk around May 14 10:49:39 soap: That can be a downside too. May 14 10:50:00 soap: Locals standing on top of coral always give me the creeps. May 14 10:50:25 expensive May 14 10:51:04 more expensive than Egypt indeed, but not nearly as bad as other places May 14 10:51:20 used http://www.oonasdivers.com/ a couple of times... would use them again :) May 14 10:51:21 a wet weekend in bognor May 14 10:51:49 had a great week on a liveaboard for not much money... and AC! May 14 10:52:04 I did suggest Bognor... :) May 14 10:52:26 also had a week under canvas down at Sharm el Sheik (IIRC) and there was no town there so no issues with safety May 14 10:52:32 have you had the stitches out now? May 14 10:52:50 lcuk: nah, wrist lock May 14 10:52:52 ;) May 14 10:52:56 heh May 14 10:53:16 X-Fade, in guam the reefs in Tumon are ruined due to tourists, but on the other 90% of the shore they have barely been touched since WWII. May 14 10:53:30 * lcuk wonders where i would go on honeymoon May 14 10:53:36 seriously, 99% on the beach traffic is on 5% of the island. May 14 10:53:46 soap: Yeah, most of the time when you move out a little bit it is a lot better. May 14 10:54:14 we quite fancied California, not for diving mind you, but the prices were shocking May 14 10:54:16 i love the way tourists bitch about other tourists causing problems May 14 10:54:32 but the water is quite shallow all the way out to the reef almost everywhere. May 14 10:54:52 lcuk, I go there for work, so :P May 14 10:55:22 ahhh tourist wrangler, a demanding summer job May 14 10:55:59 nope, guess again. May 14 10:56:14 crab tickler? May 14 10:56:15 pirate captain? May 14 10:56:38 tsunami expert? May 14 10:56:49 I map the Air Force's deeply deeply buried com lines. May 14 10:57:31 cool, how often are they cut by "anchors" over there May 14 10:57:36 I'm not sure a tsunami would hurt Guam. They build their houses like bunkers there due to the typhoons. May 14 10:57:52 lcuk, never - I'm talking about nuke-proof land-lines. May 14 10:58:38 no longer the AF's once they leave the base. Don't honestly know which branch owns the submarine optical. May 14 10:59:04 you must have a hard job then mapping what you cannot see May 14 10:59:58 I have all sorts of equipment for doing this. Induction locators, rf rabbit and hound pairs, radar, etc. May 14 11:00:12 blokes with spades May 14 11:00:27 and buckets May 14 11:00:29 ? May 14 11:00:31 backhoe operators are great at finding buried cables! May 14 11:00:42 they have a 6th sense about em May 14 11:00:44 in guam, yes, blokes with spades. On mainland I have a vac truck to excavate with air and water so as never to risk the line. May 14 11:00:58 yeah, just call in the gas company they are bound to find any electrical/telecoms cables nearby May 14 11:01:05 :D May 14 11:01:39 may I ask why you need to find the cables, aren't they mapped anyway? May 14 11:01:52 i think they move May 14 11:02:08 You trust plans when digging next to such expensive infrastructure? May 14 11:02:17 Never. You always want as-builts. May 14 11:02:37 ah I see, so it's not a yearly "let's see where they are", it's a "let's check they got it right before we cut through it" May 14 11:02:51 cool May 14 11:03:21 Also, why attempt and assume to cobble together 50 years of incomplete plans when we'll give you a full DB-backed inventory of every connection in every manhole with 3D coordinates of the lines and conduit fill patterns? May 14 11:03:39 I assumed you already had the latter May 14 11:03:51 we make it for them. May 14 11:03:58 ok May 14 11:04:07 and then in another year they ignore and map again May 14 11:04:11 Some of these manholes have nearly 100 conduits in them. May 14 11:04:23 real fricking mess. May 14 11:04:43 should see the mess behind our router! May 14 11:05:05 you and your mil spec nuke proof wiring has nothing on the rats nest back there! :p May 14 11:05:30 infact, what are your civvy rates lolo May 14 11:05:35 ahh, but how many of those do you have on site? I'm talking hundreds of them on the average base. ;) May 14 11:06:12 yeah i bet you do, its the same the world over May 14 11:06:29 can't wait for copper to die. May 14 11:07:50 its the same with fibre tho May 14 11:08:20 * lbt used to do something similar in Sellafield... May 14 11:08:41 quite alarming to find entire buildings on the map but not there May 14 11:08:43 soap, isnt it a log more difficult to detect fibre May 14 11:08:46 or vice-versa May 14 11:08:54 lot^ May 14 11:08:57 lbt: taken by UFOs ;) May 14 11:09:05 "oh, we demolished it" May 14 11:09:33 more alarming to wander around the waste ponds and then have the monitors go wild as you left.... cold chills.... May 14 11:10:21 and the time we found criticality waste in some drums and the foreman offered to "come in and shift 'em on the sunday when it's quiet" May 14 11:10:40 * Stskeeps ponders what to do while kernel-diablo builds in stable May 14 11:10:42 er May 14 11:10:43 testing May 14 11:11:11 good idea... testing May 14 11:11:55 lbt, if you work in hazardous conditions for long enough you get used to it and it becomes normal May 14 11:12:11 so his offer wasnt anything different to other normal ones May 14 11:13:55 you should have seen the defences proposed to be built around that place after it turned up... May 14 11:14:13 to be fair it was all worst case scenario... but that's nuclear safety for you May 14 11:14:43 yeah scary stuff May 14 11:21:10 * lardman wishes for some indication of n900 release data as Pandora looks like it might be back on May 14 11:21:17 s/data/date May 14 11:22:52 lardman: naaah May 14 11:23:02 I want some new hw! May 14 11:23:09 * RST38h concludes that SmartQ is now the only "new" device on the map May 14 11:23:28 they seem to reckon June delivery, but I'll be away, but then it will probably slip anyway so perhaps.... May 14 11:23:35 Q7 isn't out yet though May 14 11:23:59 i got over my hardware fetish at christmas with my x41 May 14 11:24:16 I thought I'd have too with a Pandora, but no May 14 11:24:19 im now regretting it cos it is pen touch and isnt easy to get pen out to touch on the wall May 14 11:25:11 i might go and nab one of the touch panels from the trafford centre lol May 14 11:28:55 lcuk: I am not sure what x41 may have in common with fetish May 14 11:29:38 heh ive wanted a big touchpanel for yonks now May 14 11:30:19 and the x41 proves the principle works, but with the pen and fact its dpi is shockingly low compared to my 810 May 14 11:30:38 plus the thing is ugly like hell and made by Lenovo May 14 11:32:50 bbiab May 14 11:36:17 RST38h, i think it looks and feels good :) May 14 11:36:30 but stuff like that is subjective anyway May 14 11:36:35 lcuk: puzzles me endless May 14 11:36:37 ly May 14 11:36:43 lol May 14 11:36:46 ill bbl as well May 14 11:37:07 lcuk: To me, Thinkpads are beyond subjective area, they are just plain ugly and unusable May 14 11:37:41 its a small light laptop that works well :) May 14 11:37:47 On just about any other laptop I can accept "subjective" but not on this abomination =) May 14 11:37:51 and happens to have touchscreen May 14 11:37:59 and was cheap May 14 11:38:05 cya later May 14 11:38:14 good luck May 14 11:38:30 it's freaking 3.5lbs, ohhh... May 14 11:40:53 that was so cool the dude who ID'd a song for me based on a sample i uploaded May 14 12:34:06 how is excitement for linuxtag in germany? May 14 12:34:37 pupnik_: non-existent? May 14 12:35:04 k May 14 12:35:21 pupnik_: Well, at least there is nothing planned for maemo? May 14 12:35:40 i'll bring my n810 and show it to ppl May 14 12:35:54 and - lol - the pandora if it gets finished :) May 14 12:36:22 maybe i can even finish a new emu conversion May 14 12:36:40 yes, that thing i wanted to have done last year May 14 12:36:48 lol pupnik, while you are there do you wanna finish my presentation from last year as well May 14 12:37:27 heh May 14 12:37:35 maybe i can demo the liq coolness to some ppl May 14 12:37:39 but i have to learn it May 14 12:38:06 somebody should make a game out of that voxel engine i optimized May 14 12:38:14 a maemo-commanche May 14 12:38:17 would be easy as pie May 14 12:38:19 you mean the landscape thing? May 14 12:38:22 yup May 14 12:38:31 that was indeed the coolest thing i saw out of sdl on this device :) May 14 12:38:39 :) thank you! May 14 12:39:36 my friend who wrote one of the first 3d games May 14 12:39:44 he guessed the algorithm by seeing the artifacts May 14 12:40:01 well theres something to be said from looking at the optimizations people made in the past :) May 14 12:40:32 its just nowadays people expect multiple layers and complexity that just cant be done! May 14 12:40:49 that's the joy of these low power devices May 14 12:40:54 i mean theoretically May 14 12:41:13 joy of programming etc - you know May 14 12:41:33 well i'm hooked! May 14 12:41:34 tell you something about music production with synths May 14 12:41:42 you arent coming to copenhagen are you May 14 12:41:51 sometimes the best work you do, is with a few low power synths, not a full studio May 14 12:42:02 the limitation helps the creative process May 14 12:42:03 pupnik_, i would love a full orchestra on these devices May 14 12:42:09 copenhagen? May 14 12:42:21 you have seen boxar and the theremin and even pyano May 14 12:42:21 when May 14 12:42:26 yah May 14 12:42:26 its entirely possible May 14 12:42:30 errr dunno May 14 12:42:34 anyone got link with dates May 14 12:42:36 end of this month May 14 12:42:43 ok no, still moving May 14 12:42:57 you never stop moving, even when underground May 14 12:43:10 it's cause i can only move a few boxes a day May 14 12:43:14 screwed up my back May 14 12:43:31 do you think you could pull together the gaming aspects of maemo in time for the summit? May 14 12:43:34 ouch! May 14 12:43:49 i can't think right now - pain level too high May 14 12:43:53 summit is in amsterdam - could do another mad tour May 14 12:43:56 ouchy May 14 12:43:59 when when May 14 12:44:07 you dont have to think, just hit ppl with sticks May 14 12:44:14 again im hoping someone gives links May 14 12:44:21 ok May 14 12:44:23 im on vnc and cant open a browser May 14 12:44:25 stab 'em with sticks even May 14 12:44:29 no i really can't sit/stand/walk right now May 14 12:44:41 just maybe 20-30 minutes at a stretch May 14 12:44:42 what happened May 14 12:44:53 have a herniated disc - 4-5th lumbar May 14 12:45:09 an order of magnitude worse than a broken ankle, just for rough estimate May 14 12:45:11 once again, ouch! May 14 12:45:23 what about a broken finger May 14 12:45:33 still broke! is a joke! May 14 12:45:51 hows yours coming along May 14 12:46:21 mikkov_: ping? May 14 12:46:46 it will grow back ive stopped stressin that its gonna reopen now, tho i thought i had last night after a bath May 14 12:49:29 oh baths can be bad. use cream. May 14 12:49:39 antiseptic May 14 12:50:09 so who here had the audio sample identification app? May 14 12:50:13 i have another song i love May 14 12:50:24 its not infection im worried about (theres my own body protection from that May 14 12:50:34 it was the swelling, it was like a frikkin sponge May 14 12:50:38 bleh May 14 12:50:40 :( May 14 12:50:41 expanded back up to et proportions May 14 12:50:58 i bite my fingernails. i think stuff like that helps immune system stay trained on external grot May 14 12:52:29 the nail has started growing now, its just growing in the wrong direction May 14 12:52:48 lol. that sucks! May 14 12:52:53 that will take a while to settle down lol May 14 12:52:58 :) May 14 12:53:00 damn May 14 12:53:52 i am so tempted to wedge a stylus in the bandage and see how well it would work May 14 12:54:57 did you see the mascot competition on the forums? :D May 14 12:54:57 lcuk: When everything fails: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/when_reality_meets_product_concepts/ May 14 12:55:29 lcuk: you realise your finger will be a whithered wraith-like thing once you get the bandage off :D May 14 12:55:48 yeah X-Fade quim mentioned on forums he was former meamo related guy.. May 14 12:56:03 they'll probably give you special finger exercises to do May 14 12:56:10 lardman, i already do May 14 12:56:16 ive taken bandage off myself twice now May 14 12:56:19 lcuk: Yep, he was at the last summit too. May 14 12:56:33 and last night i was shocked at how much skin came off in the water May 14 12:56:39 lcuk: Ehm, no was coming, but didn't make it. May 14 12:56:49 then the finger blew up like a balloon soaking it up May 14 12:56:53 ahhh x May 14 12:57:21 as I said, osmosis, trying to equalise the alcohol inside and out ;) May 14 12:57:30 heh May 14 12:57:38 "they" wont give me anything to do May 14 12:58:42 ive not seen an english doctor yet - i went to see nurses and they have just given me more bandages now its dried and healing May 14 12:58:47 its only a fingertip.. May 14 12:59:05 plenty more where that one came from hey May 14 13:00:41 * lcuk wiggles them all May 14 13:00:47 including my fingerpuppet May 14 13:01:06 (hence the mentioning at the start of the mascot thread ;)) May 14 13:03:09 for people considering maemo summit in amsterdam: i can organize rental of a house for a few days. May 14 13:03:48 even a houseboat (fun option) May 14 13:09:49 pupnik_, heh getting drunk and then seasick too!" May 14 13:10:48 frankly i think nokia should just identify the dudes who are working on useful stuff, and fly them to a meeting May 14 13:10:51 not people like me May 14 13:12:07 lbt: Hi David May 14 13:15:20 pupnik: Crimson Fields got ported to S60 May 14 13:15:38 pupnik: How about doing a Mameo port? ;) May 14 13:19:06 dunno crimson fields - will look May 14 13:21:51 Hello May 14 13:22:23 lo afb May 14 13:29:22 stupid mibbit I really need to install a real irc client on my work computer May 14 13:31:05 lol andrewfblack whenever im in with mibbit i forget and open links or just close the browser May 14 13:31:25 im used to irc just goin to task tray and not actually closing May 14 13:32:00 Yeah same here May 14 13:32:24 and yesterday Freenode had mibbit blocked due to some spamming May 14 13:37:08 hi fiferboy May 14 13:37:28 lbt: I have tested nested scrolling and vmax May 14 13:37:33 .... May 14 13:37:45 Nested scrolling is working well, and got rid of the performance issue in preferences May 14 13:37:50 good May 14 13:38:06 what is vmax? May 14 13:38:09 vmax seems a little bit too restricted in a long scroll area May 14 13:38:23 * andrewfblack can't figure out the last bug keeping Minimalist 2.0 from being launched May 14 13:38:28 pupnik_: Restricting the maximum scroll speed for Qt finger scrolling May 14 13:38:31 limit the maximimum speed when you release your finger May 14 13:38:35 I guessed 100 May 14 13:39:05 it has no effect whilst your finger is touching May 14 13:39:31 are there any interesting apps that would use these features if ported? May 14 13:39:35 Right. May 14 13:39:47 lbt: hildon-pannable-area uses 500 by default May 14 13:39:51 pupnik_: any Qt apps :) May 14 13:39:59 units though.... May 14 13:40:12 k May 14 13:40:13 I have no clue ... 100 whats? May 14 13:40:22 pixels per frame May 14 13:40:38 so it should be per second May 14 13:40:42 "Maximum distance the child widget should scroll per 'frame' in pixels per frame" May 14 13:41:15 that's pannable May 14 13:41:21 I meant my "100" May 14 13:41:36 could be the same May 14 13:42:26 It sounds like h-p-a means 500 pixels (maximum) 25 times per second to me. May 14 13:42:38 that's a lot May 14 13:42:49 on a 800x480 screen May 14 13:42:49 I assume a frame is a motion event, and it defines 25 motion events a second May 14 13:43:09 True, but a list widget can be much, much longer than the 480 May 14 13:43:09 500/sec sounds more rational May 14 13:43:24 It depends on how they define a frame May 14 13:43:30 25 screenfulls per second.... May 14 13:44:26 Hmm, that does sound too fast. May 14 13:44:57 is Eero Tamminen here? May 14 13:45:40 anyhow, current setting is too slow for you? May 14 13:46:59 It seems to scroll about a screen height when I try it as fast as I can May 14 13:47:57 100 -> 200 ? May 14 13:48:25 I think that would be much better, assuming it directly translates to twice the scroll distance May 14 13:48:55 if you scroll fast you should be able to reach twice the distance May 14 13:49:01 there's no 'boost' May 14 13:49:25 scrollspeed boost would be nice option imho May 14 13:49:35 (although I've considered that... boosting highspeed and damping low speed) May 14 13:49:40 lbt are the scroll untis just steps per frame, or steps per second May 14 13:50:04 I think 100s per second May 14 13:50:09 looking at the code May 14 13:50:40 the initiall code in liqbase for kinetics is units per frame May 14 13:50:50 and fades too quickly on laptop May 14 13:50:55 yeah but then the frame rate changes :) May 14 13:51:00 yeah May 14 13:51:11 the zooming view uses seconds correctly now :) May 14 13:52:11 back in a bit May 14 14:10:57 X-Fade: there? May 14 14:16:55 mikkov_: Automatically imported apps from Extras to Downloads. May 14 14:16:59 mikkov_: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/crawl/ May 14 14:17:47 mikkov_: Info is from description in Extras. May 14 14:22:14 X-Fade: yeah, I noticed May 14 14:24:02 X-Fade: I'm not sure if it's good to have _everything_ from extras in downloads May 14 14:24:02 I need to do some editing at least May 14 14:24:29 and maybe fix crawl install, because I think that it doesn't work May 14 14:26:36 mikkov_: Well, it is in user/* so it is it should be there :) May 14 14:26:48 X-Fade: the import didn't use Maemo-Display-Name? May 14 14:26:49 mikkov_: I flagged everything beta quality. May 14 14:27:45 mikkov_: No.. crap forgot that :( May 14 14:28:53 heh May 14 14:28:54 Well, I can do a fix run later. May 14 14:30:49 X-Fade: you used the new name "Extras" for .install's. now application manager will have two extras, maemo Extras and just Extras May 14 14:31:08 mikkov_: It doesn't match on name, but on url? May 14 14:31:37 hola May 14 14:32:19 X-Fade: now there's two Bombermans http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/bomberman-2008 and http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/bomberman . Other one has to be removed May 14 14:32:44 and fix the unixname for the original entry May 14 14:32:56 re May 14 14:33:26 mikkov_: Yeah, that is what you get when people don't follow instructions ;) May 14 14:36:58 X-Fade: it's not possible to delete entries? May 14 14:37:11 mikkov_: No, not for mere mortals ;) May 14 14:38:31 mikkov_: Problem solved ;) May 14 14:38:42 there's also stuff like http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/gcompris-data/ which doesn't belong to downloads (or in user/*) May 14 14:38:59 mikkov_: Not in user/* probably. May 14 14:39:57 woosh, gone.. May 14 14:42:44 X-Fade: Could you remove two of my projects on garage? May 14 14:42:50 *please :) May 14 14:42:58 thopiekar: Sure. May 14 14:53:26 Stskeeps: how do you say "join us" in Danish? May 14 14:54:34 Sts|office - StsN802 ? Or anybody else with a clue of Danish? May 14 14:55:22 yeah - it depends on the context :) May 14 14:55:48 "Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend: join us!" May 14 14:55:55 or something along these lines May 14 14:56:00 for the subject of a blog post May 14 14:57:22 "Vær med til Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend!" (join the mozilla/maemo danish weekend) May 14 14:57:40 and the ? is one of those "o"? May 14 14:57:51 one of the 'ae' May 14 14:58:01 I'll look for one :) May 14 14:58:17 lol never seen a ? mark in a black box before lol May 14 14:58:25 æ ? May 14 14:59:08 Vær med til Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend! May 14 14:59:11 Is this a place where I can ask for help May 14 14:59:15 ah, I had found it in the character map May 14 14:59:23 (first time I find anything there, actually) May 14 14:59:29 it's the ae in maemo :P May 14 14:59:35 jeje May 14 15:00:15 you can also do "Deltag i Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend" which is more along the lines of participate May 14 15:02:53 whatever you say, I trust you (glubs) May 14 15:03:26 the worst part is that i actually think my english is better than my danish, even though it's my mothertongue :P May 14 15:03:33 but... I like the more the "ae" May 14 15:03:36 hehe May 14 15:03:50 and "See you in Copenhagen!" (that's for the closure May 14 15:04:06 http://www.nasa.gov/ntv May 14 15:04:11 mib_w1tezb: sure, just ask May 14 15:04:15 some awesome video today of the hubble repair May 14 15:04:19 "Vi ses i Koebenhavn!" (oø) May 14 15:04:20 fyi May 14 15:04:29 mib_w1tezb: yes.... just ask :) May 14 15:04:42 thanks May 14 15:04:47 eh. why does my irssi say oe is oo. May 14 15:04:50 Koe or Kø ? May 14 15:05:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen ;) May 14 15:05:27 how do i use my n810 with email, and make it sync so that when i delete something using hotmail.com it deletes from the n810 May 14 15:08:42 I tried using the realmedia link for nasatv on my 770 running 2008 at school yesterday - but it kept saying corrupt data May 14 15:08:57 should I use the yahoo feed or something? May 14 15:11:06 Stskeeps: alright, thanks! http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/v%c3%a6r-med-til-mozillamaemo-danish-weekend/ May 14 15:12:49 qgil, the mascot/logo for the event looks wicked May 14 15:13:05 they should use it for more than one event! May 14 15:13:07 np, i even received a notice about the event from a professor at my uni/work earlier :) May 14 15:13:24 i wonder if they've made the connection between me and Mer yet :> May 14 15:13:40 #nick jack May 14 15:13:44 dam May 14 15:13:45 i wonder if you have made a connection between you and mer yet :) May 14 15:13:53 *jack May 14 15:13:56 lcuk: I would have preferred a beats with five eyes, you know May 14 15:14:01 *nick jack May 14 15:14:11 I'm sure that there is plenty of those fossiles in the Danish soil May 14 15:14:18 lcuk: that's a very good question May 14 15:14:37 heh then speak up! i quite like the catoonowl thing May 14 15:14:59 the narval was cool, but has no dpad May 14 15:15:16 we could genetically modify it May 14 15:15:22 so could aanybody help me May 14 15:15:39 a kangaroo would honor the case of the 770 May 14 15:15:43 pacifictyphoon with what? May 14 15:15:51 the email thing May 14 15:16:20 how do i get my n810 to reconise when ive deleted something using hotmail.com on a pc May 14 15:16:30 i delete emails but they are not deleted on my n810 May 14 15:16:36 you know quim, your mentioning of code in your hands was cool :) would be good to find a nice overview archive of the history of maemo May 14 15:16:52 the mascot should be that first maemo server ;p May 14 15:16:55 sorry pacifictyphoon i dont use email May 14 15:16:56 i want to know how to fully sync it May 14 15:17:08 others will though, or post onto talk.maemo.org May 14 15:17:59 when i post on talk.maemo nobody helps May 14 15:18:20 everybodys more interested in prototype mumbo jumbo May 14 15:18:26 <[A2K]_> pacifictyphoon: did you try to use imap? May 14 15:18:42 whats imap May 14 15:18:51 <[A2K]_> mail protocol May 14 15:18:56 <[A2K]_> much better then pop3 May 14 15:18:59 mmm doesnt sound normal, i usually see folks falling over themselves, perhaps your question is so obscure use case that people dont encounter it May 14 15:19:27 does hotmail have imap? May 14 15:19:40 ask microsoft? May 14 15:20:04 the hotmail connection info should know May 14 15:20:13 <[A2K]_> i think it does. pop3 is obsolete today. May 14 15:20:20 i thought pop was disabled on hotmail years ago tho May 14 15:20:20 kk thanks for the help May 14 15:20:27 nope still up May 14 15:20:48 o_O so i couldv kept my outlook express account! May 14 15:23:05 is this irc just for talking about maemo or can we talk about anything May 14 15:23:27 bacon is a much discussed topic May 14 15:23:41 no it isnt May 14 15:24:01 the first rule of #maemo is dont mention the bacon May 14 15:24:11 if you tell everyone then we wont have much for us! May 14 15:24:14 mmm.. bacon May 14 15:25:19 Hmm, definite bacon shortage at the Jaffahaus recently May 14 15:25:24 well if we can talk about anything... who watched paccquio hatton?? May 14 15:25:38 * lardman hires a C-130 May 14 15:25:41 see look, you mention bacon and lardman smelt it from outside IRC! May 14 15:25:43 Oh, I had lardons in a galette earlier this week May 14 15:26:36 if you do an air-drop of bacon supplies, does that mean that pigs have flown! May 14 15:26:38 * lardman prepares to fly past at 500' with 50 tons' May 14 15:26:58 lcuk: lol May 14 15:27:18 anyway, vanishing lol \o cyas later May 14 15:27:56 pretty cool, fireun May 14 15:28:21 the video, I mean. I wonder how cool it would be if they focused on some guy's box and he was watching happy tree friends or pr0n or sth May 14 15:28:22 nobody watched it then? May 14 15:30:33 pacifictyphoon: is that some anime or how was it? :P May 14 15:30:35 pacifictyphoon: 'fraid not May 14 15:30:45 Stskeeps: Boxing May 14 15:30:48 ah May 14 15:30:53 well then no :P May 14 15:31:54 jeremiah, around? May 14 15:31:54 lol stskeeps are you a programmer by any chance May 14 15:32:14 pacifictyphoon: no, i'm a perfectly normal person May 14 15:32:17 but some might disagree May 14 15:32:17 :P May 14 15:32:49 Demi-god, perhaps? May 14 15:33:15 etrunko : PING? May 14 15:33:16 demi moore? :P May 14 15:33:32 hi Jaffa May 14 15:33:49 Stskeeps: More like Dudley ;-p May 14 15:33:53 so anybody into sports? May 14 15:33:53 lo thopiekar May 14 15:37:48 whats smpt May 14 15:37:57 better or worse than pop3 May 14 15:38:23 smtp is the mailbox you put a letter into for it to be sent, pop3 is your home mailbox May 14 15:38:38 (well, or retrival service rather..) .. and imap is a home mailbox May 14 15:39:32 so imap will remove emails that i have deleted May 14 15:39:45 becasue pop3 does not May 14 15:39:55 pop3 only seems to download them May 14 15:40:23 pop3 downloads them and often removes them online afterwards May 14 15:40:37 imap accesses your mailbox directly (and its stored on the server) May 14 15:41:39 if i delete an email on my laptop using the hotmail.com it does not delete off my nit May 14 15:41:46 can pop3 do that or not May 14 15:42:18 imap should do that - if the NIT checks it May 14 15:42:26 but the email client on NIT is .. interesting May 14 15:42:59 well i used claws mail aswell but pop3 did not do that May 14 15:43:17 havent tried imap because i do not know if hotmail supports it May 14 15:45:06 pop3 can delete messeges on server if you configure it to May 14 15:45:46 can it delete them on device? May 14 15:46:54 what do u mean? May 14 15:47:47 if something is deleted by the hotmail web service will the emails delete off my NIT May 14 15:49:51 no, probably not May 14 15:50:05 pop3 doesn't sync, it just downloads what is there when it connects May 14 15:52:49 ok thanks May 14 15:52:51 ur looking for imap =), and a better e-mail provider May 14 15:53:00 gmail will do all the magic you want/need May 14 15:53:13 can't you set hotmail to forward your mail to gmail while ppl get used to the new address? May 14 15:53:16 if i delete something on NIT will it be deleted on the server? May 14 15:54:28 what usually happens is that you can configure your pop3 settings to delete the e-mail on the server once it is _downloaded_ into your device. But once again, it doesn't sync May 14 15:54:40 andre__: ping May 14 15:54:53 ? May 14 15:55:02 andre_ ping May 14 15:55:12 thanks bobbe May 14 15:55:27 np May 14 15:55:32 qgil, pong May 14 15:55:37 hi there May 14 15:55:43 nickname conflicts ;-) May 14 15:55:48 X-Fade: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29001 May 14 15:55:53 hi May 14 15:56:02 one thing, the email Richard sent about buggy apps in extras-devel May 14 15:56:09 qgil, working on it already May 14 15:56:13 for some reason has vanished completely in may mailbox May 14 15:56:18 no inbox, no trash.. May 14 15:56:21 want a copy? :) May 14 15:56:24 pacifictyphoon, doesn't hotmail have forwarding? If it does, set it to forward to a gmail account. Gmail has imap support, and all the features you wished hotmail had =) May 14 15:56:53 but then i would have to control my hotmail and gmail May 14 15:56:54 ok, but forward to jeremiah since it's also a bout missing dependencies in pythin packages and etc May 14 15:57:21 jeremiah can then ask the python project if they are planning to work on those packages May 14 15:57:26 or if there is anything deprecated, etc May 14 15:57:37 qgil, i've pinged jeremiah here already about it, waiting for an answer May 14 15:57:43 ok May 14 15:57:49 thanks! May 14 15:58:03 and now... time to leave this office May 14 15:58:08 okay, going to split this up into two tasks and send an update of the first part to you soon May 14 15:58:14 have a nice evening :) May 14 15:58:19 u2 May 14 15:58:48 pacifictyphoon, not really. if it forwards everything, why bother? Blow hotmail to hell =)) May 14 16:00:22 i use msn and would like everything to be in 1 place May 14 16:00:34 ill resort to it if its nessicary May 14 16:01:04 * lardman|home sees that he has ~450 unread emails in his hotmail account May 14 16:01:14 * lardman|home only uses it for messenger May 14 16:01:39 when replying to emails it will come up with my gmail May 14 16:02:15 yes May 14 16:02:58 well if somebody sent it to my hotmail May 14 16:04:04 that would be rejected by my email spam filter then probably May 14 16:04:15 different from and reply to addresses and all that May 14 16:06:37 true May 14 16:06:57 g-mail has a "send as" function in its web interface that would be just fantastic to have on an e-mail client May 14 16:07:38 what I'm doing with my nit is abandoning modest (not pushing accurately enough, takes a long time to refresh) and using mnotify + gmail web interface May 14 16:07:42 been working like a charm so far May 14 16:08:08 and if you use the web interface of gmail you can easily add your hotmail account as a pop account and reply to ppl using your hotmail address May 14 16:08:17 isnt modest open and actively being worked on again? May 14 16:12:14 I dunno lcuk. App Manager hasn't shown any updates for it, and it's the default client for OS2008. Should be pretty stable, I guess. Still, it spends hours under active wifi without noticing anything different, even if I tell it to check every 10 min. Then like 1:30h later it starts beeping like it's going to explode, 329048920348 e-mail arriving at once May 14 16:12:38 *e-mails May 14 16:12:40 heh Bobbe_ May 14 16:13:47 i understand that kind of frustration, i think its only recently been woken (i might be completely wrong and nopthing is happening with it) and if thats the case we might get updates eventually May 14 16:16:37 * Bobbe_ was thoroughly chastised over his command of the language the other day. Don't wanna make more people angry at my unforgivable forgetfullness of indefinite articles in an irc channel May 14 16:16:54 exactly lcuk, it doesn't deliver May 14 16:16:57 (quite literally) May 14 16:17:02 let's hope it does in the future May 14 16:25:27 anyone have issues with ekiga.net registrations? May 14 16:26:47 define "issues"? May 14 16:28:03 andre__, just received your mail ;) May 14 16:28:17 yerga, you like it? ;-) May 14 16:28:28 andre__, it's weird because actually hex-a-hop don't use maemo-select-menu... May 14 16:28:48 i didn't test myself, these are nokia results May 14 16:29:13 yeah, I Imagine May 14 16:30:50 yerga, hmm... just ignore my email in that case? :-) May 14 16:32:34 andre__, I'll do :) Anyway I have to update it soon, so I'll do sure it doesn't happen. May 14 16:32:44 k May 14 16:38:52 andre__: n810 wont register with ekiga, registers with diamondcard though May 14 16:40:10 describe "wont register". May 14 16:40:19 any errors? what steps? May 14 16:41:03 andre__: i setup my ekiga account, connect to some wifi, the little online symbol up top says there is an error and a little icon in it says 'sip network error' May 14 16:42:07 anything else works when using that wifi? May 14 16:42:09 did you try with another wifi? May 14 16:42:26 yep, gtalk registers and i can talk May 14 16:42:51 has worked on a couple of wifi's but most of the time ti fails May 14 16:45:08 weird part is same account on same network on pc registers May 14 16:45:43 ok, that's really strange. hmm, no idea May 14 16:46:25 andre__: any pointers on where to look? and way to get a log? run it in verbose mode? May 14 16:46:53 toggles_w, http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Debugging_Ekiga May 14 16:47:03 andre__: Thanks! May 14 16:47:26 andre__: actually, it's not ekiga, is it rcom ? the default sip client May 14 16:47:35 andre__: Thanks though. May 14 16:47:49 watching the wrath of khan May 14 16:48:17 rtcom May 14 16:48:24 yeah ;-) May 14 16:48:44 toggles_w, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Stock_answers#SIP.2Frtcom.2FInternet_Call May 14 16:48:58 it cracks me up when they talk about cryogenic ships sent out into deep space in 1996 with genetically engineered humans onboard :) May 14 16:49:19 toggles_w, hmm, well, my link is not really that helpful, but that's what i'd ask for in a bug report :) May 14 16:49:29 andre__: thanks mate May 14 16:49:33 wow that moon landing seriously fucked up people's sense of perception of advancement May 14 16:50:21 <_gpg_> hello May 14 16:51:20 hi May 14 16:52:08 fiferboy: ... I *just* got it to scoll out of bounds :) May 14 16:52:23 lbt: Nice! May 14 16:52:27 What's it look like? May 14 16:52:33 white May 14 16:53:01 I kindof expected a segfault... May 14 16:53:23 So, it's not exactly ready for release? May 14 16:53:26 What's white? May 14 16:54:04 no, I meant as you logged in I got the first .so onto the tablet and it overshoots :) May 14 16:54:13 it doesn't bounce back yet May 14 16:54:30 elninja: the bg colour May 14 16:54:36 Does it work in all directions? May 14 16:54:43 bg color of what? May 14 16:54:58 I just joined in the middle of the conversation May 14 16:54:59 fiferboy: yes May 14 16:55:01 <_gpg_> i was looking for some coverflow demo application using Qt, i didn't get any success from Qt chanel since i'm looking for something accelerated using QGLWidget for example, i would like to know if some of you tried this in maemo project May 14 16:55:29 _gpg_: not coverflow... but we're doing fingerscrolling May 14 16:55:34 <_gpg_> anything work perfectly when using a strong PC but for handless devices it's more complicated to find a good answer May 14 16:55:43 Sweet. I was looking at the declaritive UI examples, and if you overshoot in two directions at once it only bounces back in one direction May 14 16:56:02 fiferboy: mine just flies off the screen in an unbounded way May 14 16:56:17 which isn't surprising since there is no rubberband yet May 14 16:56:40 <_gpg_> lbt, thank you May 14 16:56:52 That's just as good, except I expect you can fly of the screen in two directions. QtKinetics can only do one! May 14 16:57:41 yes indeed May 14 16:58:17 What happens to the scrollbars when you overshoot? May 14 16:58:59 they sit there.... no squish... but they don't fly out the ends either ;) May 14 16:59:12 just trying a textedit area... and that's fine May 14 16:59:24 "the dark side of the earth" May 14 17:00:00 lbt: I like the look of this list view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x_bS4M3jhY&feature=PlayList&p=084A46CE1D502DB3&index=3 May 14 17:00:46 very nice May 14 17:00:50 we can do that May 14 17:01:13 ok... food now.... bak l8r May 14 17:05:16 GP2X is out May 14 17:06:29 <_gpg_> i have some download problem, can anyone confirm to me if CPULOAD http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/cpuload/ tool is a part of the SDK ? May 14 17:07:10 RST38h: so it beat the pandora after all May 14 17:08:05 hmm, is that the right one? May 14 17:08:41 ah, the GP2X Wiz May 14 17:10:27 <_gpg_> is cpuload a generic C application ? (i'm not on linux, please help if you can) May 14 17:19:25 <_gpg_> I would just like to know if it's source code is available or if it's something provided as binary from nokia for example May 14 17:22:08 where did you read this? May 14 17:22:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H8HnaTIcmk hahahaha May 14 17:22:20 sounds like a measurement to me, like "outside temperature" May 14 17:23:54 <_gpg_> lardman|home, http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/cpuload/ (i dont know if you were talking to me) May 14 17:26:09 _gpg_: yes I was, looks like it's a scratchbox stress tool May 14 17:26:36 so I was wrong May 14 17:26:36 _gpg_, pool/maemo4.1.2/free/s/sp-stress/sp-stress_0.1.1-1_armel.deb May 14 17:26:50 <_gpg_> lcuk, thank you May 14 17:26:50 Description: Tools for creating cpu/io/memory load May 14 17:26:51 Contains three tools (cpuload, ioload and memload) for creating May 14 17:26:51 the corresponding kinds of system load. May 14 17:26:51 lcuk: was that a piss-take call? May 14 17:26:55 <_gpg_> lardman|home, than you May 14 17:26:56 check for source using that package May 14 17:27:06 lardman|gone, apparantly not May 14 17:27:10 Hehehehe: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=2&ref=us May 14 17:27:13 very odd May 14 17:27:21 Explorers, hehe May 14 17:28:09 my god :) having network working jsut by coming home is a dream :) May 14 17:28:27 pigs are flying, lcuk has an AP? ;) May 14 17:28:34 * lcuk slap May 14 17:28:42 * lcuk waves dodgy finger May 14 17:28:50 tracy keeps calling it a tampon :| May 14 17:30:31 lcuk: has she tried using it in this function? =) May 14 17:30:34 penguinbait didn't manage one civil or reasonable reply to anything from yesterday. May 14 17:31:16 X-Fade, ping? May 14 17:32:12 <_gpg_> lcuk, http://timeless.justdave.net/repository/repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/s/sp-stress/ looks too old ? what do you think ? May 14 17:32:59 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/s/sp-stress/ May 14 17:33:07 why not use the proper repo, or even apt source May 14 17:34:10 <_gpg_> lcuk, i have to wait untill i come back to home to have a linux pc May 14 17:34:53 o_O arent you wanting this for the maemo device.. May 14 17:36:13 * lcuk ponders what to do with a file called "gary___________readme__________________notes.txt" in the root of my dev folder May 14 17:36:33 Are there others, with different number of underscores? May 14 17:36:38 no May 14 17:36:40 just that one May 14 17:36:44 unusual May 14 17:36:47 its much bigger than all the other files in there May 14 17:36:54 i did it to stand out :) May 14 17:37:03 i miss em if i just make em called "readme" lol May 14 17:37:57 aaa,bbb,ccc,ddd,... usually work for me May 14 17:38:24 aaaaaa for the most important one :) May 14 17:38:50 what if something more important comes in ? May 14 17:40:33 I write it down on paper. May 14 17:41:01 i do that in liqbase, this was actually code notes May 14 17:41:15 pseudocode and stuff May 14 17:41:20 is there a version of wine that i can use to allow running linux binaries to work in windows May 14 17:41:38 variation/similar program May 14 17:41:46 colinux May 14 17:42:21 mmnh thats a bit heavy, but you are right of course May 14 17:42:35 what if i didnt need visual stuff May 14 17:42:39 just console May 14 17:42:49 colinux. May 14 17:43:03 bugger lol May 14 17:43:41 mmmmm can i run explorer.exe in linux? May 14 17:43:58 probably not. May 14 17:46:40 phoey! May 14 17:47:03 * lcuk will just have to port liqbase to windows May 14 17:47:13 * lcuk opens visual basic May 14 17:47:25 sick May 14 17:47:26 * jaska closes bomb shelter hatch May 14 17:48:24 lol locutus liqbase began life in vb :) theres components and elements wrote in that - i did the first version of sketching there and in vb.net ;) May 14 17:48:28 ^compact May 14 17:48:43 lcuk: my comment still holds May 14 17:48:45 lcuk: sick May 14 17:49:28 locutus, making vb work fast and effectively takes as much dedication as writing asm ;) May 14 17:49:40 and is just as obscure lol May 14 17:49:47 lcuk: like i said May 14 17:49:48 lcuk: SICK May 14 17:49:56 lcuk: also, i LIKE WRITING ASSEMBLY :-( May 14 17:50:07 i learned programming with m68k assembly, AND LIKED IT May 14 17:50:12 i used do too :) May 14 17:50:17 68k IS fun May 14 17:50:21 i hate x86 May 14 17:50:30 arm asm reminds me muchly of my amiga :) May 14 17:50:42 its got 16regs (just like our D and As) May 14 17:51:14 I think colinux has no "visual stuff" actually May 14 17:51:22 its got an x11 driver May 14 17:51:27 Oh May 14 17:51:27 and can show linux windows through May 14 17:51:39 i had it installed a while ago May 14 17:51:46 but its an entire distro hiding underneath May 14 17:51:51 but i suppose thats whats needed May 14 17:51:59 I just had this memory that you needed to run a X server in windows to get any graphics out of it, and that you otherwise could just ssh to the local colinux process May 14 17:53:06 heh, I guess there's quite a small demand for the stuff that's in between msys+cygwin and colinux :) May 14 18:00:55 whats the problem with just using XDMCP to the Colinux host? May 14 18:01:01 its like, taking advantage of X :P May 14 18:01:16 implementing a full virtual grapics card and all that shit, would just be way to much hassle May 14 18:01:50 this way you can even make use of things like native hw accel for graphics May 14 18:08:33 LoCusF, yeah :/ May 14 18:08:38 uh May 14 18:08:41 locutus May 14 18:09:55 I had a SD card fail on me May 14 18:10:12 It's very disturbing, because it's entirely silent, no errors reported whatsoever at any stage by anything May 14 18:10:26 Only noticed it because mp3's were garbled and missing big chunks May 14 18:10:55 which is why zfs is nice :P May 14 18:11:11 Sure enough, I copy random crap to fill up the card, flush/drop caches, sha1sum data on card and the original, and the sha1 mismatches May 14 18:12:00 It's just so stupid, these cards do frickin ECC and the data transfer is checksummed too, something somewhere is either buggy by design or plain buggy if errors don't propagate to me the user May 14 18:13:08 And thanks to the wear leveling stuff, these "bad sectors" jump around and even vanish at times May 14 18:44:36 lbt: You there? May 14 18:44:44 sec May 14 18:45:10 k May 14 18:45:57 k May 14 18:46:59 Have you used Qt Animation Framework at all? May 14 18:47:29 not yet May 14 18:47:38 I spoke to them though May 14 18:47:50 and they said it was overkill for this task May 14 18:47:57 it's ported for Mer May 14 18:48:06 well, it builds for Mer May 14 18:48:10 Ok, I was going to say they have some sort of flick widget May 14 18:48:56 yeah, what we're doing is enabling the framework May 14 18:49:09 what they're doing is enabling the applications May 14 18:49:18 actually so is hildon May 14 18:49:25 What you are doing, anyway. I'm not doing anything. May 14 18:49:50 heh - testing is vital May 14 18:49:56 so is encouragement ... May 14 18:50:02 and having a user May 14 18:50:27 I'm moral support May 14 18:50:43 * lbt needs it sometimes... May 14 18:51:01 this is looking good though... just writing the next bit May 14 18:51:10 Rubberbanding? May 14 18:51:34 trying to decide if I should bounce on the x-axis whilst carrying momentumn on the y. May 14 18:51:39 but yes May 14 18:52:44 I had the bounce independant on the axis, and it looked wierd when x was bouncing while y was still running May 14 18:53:02 but if y stops sharply May 14 18:53:22 so maybe decelerate both at the same rate... May 14 18:53:49 yeah, I just won't reverse direction May 14 18:54:13 * lbt goes back to emacs May 14 18:55:08 I notice with overshoot in QtKinetics you can drag as far as you like past the limit, it isn't limited by the same overshoot_maximum as on release May 14 18:55:15 emacs ♥ May 14 18:55:50 fiferboy: mmm, I might.... May 14 18:56:04 * lbt notes that Myrtti has good taste May 14 18:56:25 lbt: you'll disagree when I show you a screenshot of mine May 14 18:56:43 lbt: http://xkcd.com/378/ May 14 18:57:04 of course.... May 14 18:57:46 damn... wrong bit... May 14 18:58:11 :) May 14 19:16:17 lbt: from h-p-a "Force applied to the movement, multiplies the calculated speed of the user movement the cursor in the screen" May 14 19:16:24 Does that sound like your speed boost? May 14 19:16:46 heh - pressure sensitive May 14 19:16:48 no May 14 19:17:25 I just meant slow movements tend to be slowed May 14 19:17:32 fast ones accelerated May 14 19:17:46 non-linear velocity when you release your finger May 14 19:18:02 so a flick is accelerated (as you'd intend) May 14 19:18:08 Ah May 14 19:18:19 but a slow movement stops almost dead (as you'd intend) May 14 19:18:43 sometimes it's disconcerting to have it move even though you've *tried* to stop May 14 19:21:42 lbt: I have a style sheet to make scroll bars look the same as Fremantle May 14 19:22:05 you *may* get a .so l8r May 14 19:22:20 Yay! May 14 19:23:02 Do you think we should apply the stylesheet by default for Fremantle compiles in the finger scrolling code? May 14 19:23:31 lets see May 14 19:25:02 lbt: Sent you an email May 14 19:36:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qcnqLZC_uY new pandora vid May 14 19:38:14 The Pandoras will be handmade in UK! May 14 19:38:19 OMG! May 14 19:39:52 anyone have/know where to find iptables nat kernel modules for latest os2006? May 14 19:42:12 handmade??? May 14 19:43:10 i can understand being sick of the delays May 14 19:43:15 still, it's the piece of kit i want May 14 19:43:31 evening pupnik_ May 14 19:43:38 hi ukki! May 14 19:45:06 why os2006 - 770 as router? May 14 19:45:41 yes May 14 19:47:02 got an old laptop i could use if i could get it connected to net somehow May 14 19:47:57 it doesn't even have ethernet May 14 19:48:49 you have some usb-ethernet for the 770? May 14 19:49:53 yes, freebsd works nicely with it, i just need to get 770 routing May 14 19:51:16 you still have your gregale sdk installed? :) May 14 20:02:03 Heya maemo, long time no see :) May 14 20:02:09 hello wazd May 14 20:04:19 wazd! May 14 20:04:22 wazd: Still working on mer ui? May 14 20:04:36 fiferboy: omg! Hey Andrew! May 14 20:04:47 Jaffa: Heya :) May 14 20:04:49 Hey, is your Jabber still screwed up? May 14 20:04:51 i do not have dev computer up and running - all in boxes May 14 20:05:07 fiferboy: Well, I still can't see you online May 14 20:05:26 Hehe, something is wrong at one of our ends May 14 20:05:30 fiferboy: I've switched to the Pidgin but the problem still remains I suppose May 14 20:05:46 wazd: I'm online now, so I would say so. May 14 20:07:04 fiferboy: How are you? Haven't seen you for a thousand of years already :) May 14 20:07:45 wazd: Pretty good. Working on a per project and trying to eventually find time to work on my other projects May 14 20:07:52 wazd: What are you up to? May 14 20:08:26 fiferboy: well, currently I was MIA cause of work and damn holidays May 14 20:08:42 Are holidays not good? May 14 20:08:52 fiferboy: but I'm still trying to find time to work on various maemo projects andMer :) May 14 20:09:04 fiferboy: not THAT holidays :) May 14 20:09:33 fiferboy: had to visit 5 or 6 places, almost no rest May 14 20:09:48 Ah. Not so relaxing May 14 20:10:01 fiferboy: so I'm totally dry after all that stuff :) May 14 20:11:46 fiferboy: btw, do you want to join Mer project too?) May 14 20:12:11 fiferboy: since you're an uber-gtk-hacker :) May 14 20:12:40 wazd: Maybe if I get some spare time. May 14 20:12:56 Actually, I am working almost exclusively in Qt for the moment. May 14 20:13:14 fiferboy: aw, that bird-related software? May 14 20:13:24 wazd: Yep. May 14 20:13:48 fiferboy: if you need some UI help - just ask :) May 14 20:14:17 wazd: Thanks! I am almost at the point where I want to optimize some dialogs for small/large screens May 14 20:14:18 i bet solid videophone could help sell RX-51s May 14 20:14:57 pupnik_: I think solid existing RX-51 could help sell RX-51 :") May 14 20:17:32 * RST38h has not seen anyone using videophone outside of Google May 14 20:22:46 seeing peoples ugly mugs isnt really always wanted May 14 20:24:37 Well, I'm off May 14 20:24:48 wazd: I'll send you some screenshots in the next few days May 14 20:24:54 fiferboy: c ya, I'll try to fix jabber May 14 20:25:01 fiferboy: ok May 14 20:25:18 lbt: If you get a chance to send an .so, that would be awesome May 14 20:25:35 yep... it's not quite working yet May 14 21:17:21 X-Fade: got my email? May 14 22:12:42 * thopiekar is going to sleep now... cu l8er :) May 14 22:28:13 ugh, 2 days idle -> battery empty, guess i need a new one May 14 22:53:50 when I switch off my nit, why does it sometimes leave the d-pad LED flashing? May 14 22:59:28 aspect: you have a message? May 15 00:04:38 wow that last episode of bones was really shitty May 15 00:44:30 jaska: sometimes it's rouge processes sucking up the juice while everything else is idle May 15 00:44:40 rogue May 15 02:05:22 Ug S60 May 15 02:06:00 Can't install a freaking IRC client because of expired certs May 15 02:06:14 No matter what I set the goddamn date to. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 15 02:59:58 2009