**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 18 02:59:57 2009
May 18 04:07:08 <Macer> anybody around?
May 18 04:07:18 <Macer> was wondering if anybody here used samba much?
May 18 04:08:29 <ShadowJK> not much..
May 18 04:10:11 <Macer> hm. was going to try to set it up as a pdc and see about getting multiple operating systems to use it for auth etc
May 18 04:10:20 <slonopotamus> mooorning
May 18 04:12:30 <ShadowJK> ah I haven't used any auth stuff at all
May 18 04:12:36 <ShadowJK> just moving files
May 18 04:12:56 <Macer> heh
May 18 04:22:53 <luke-jr> meh
May 18 04:23:00 <luke-jr> I left my USB cable in the car I think
May 18 04:23:06 <luke-jr> guess 2.6.30 will wait
May 18 04:31:55 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, hi, luke
May 18 04:32:00 <luke-jr> hi
May 18 04:32:46 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, i think first version of open-wlan-cal is ready :)
May 18 04:32:55 <luke-jr> that's nice
May 18 04:41:09 <ShadowJK> did you get any replies to the keyboard issue with new kernel?
May 18 04:49:20 <Macer> huh?
May 18 04:54:44 <ara_ara_ufufu|wo> Hey does anyone know how can I run a program on start up on the maemo n810?
May 18 04:55:46 <ara_ara_ufufu|wo> I've tried creating rc.local under /etc/init.d, and ran update-rc.d rc.local defaults, but it doesn't seem to work =/
May 18 05:04:36 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: just a "same here"
May 18 05:05:17 <ShadowJK> ah :/
May 18 05:05:46 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, wanna be my first tester? :P
May 18 05:05:54 <luke-jr> no
May 18 05:36:49 <Meiz_n810> My n810 broke itself while i was sleeping
May 18 05:38:45 <Stskeeps> hmm?
May 18 05:38:55 <RST38h> gadget suicide?
May 18 05:40:28 <robink> My N810 is just about out of juice.
May 18 05:40:42 <Meiz_n810> i just plugged charger in, left it on my desk, in the morning it has two small cracks in topright corner
May 18 05:41:24 <Meiz_n810> but i must be really lucky because the screen is still working
May 18 05:41:37 <robink> I forgot my charger.  I'm in Colorado.
May 18 05:41:54 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: earthquake? :P
May 18 05:42:19 <Meiz_n810> heh, no such thing in finland :P
May 18 05:42:32 <Stskeeps> even .dk has them :P
May 18 05:42:33 <Meiz_n810> i really wonder what broke the screen...
May 18 05:43:23 <Meiz_n810> but cracks are inside, right below the touch level
May 18 05:43:27 <Stskeeps> good question
May 18 05:43:55 <Meiz_n810> oh, i'm so happy it's still working :)
May 18 05:43:55 <Stskeeps> i guess a photo would be more illustrative
May 18 05:44:22 <Meiz_n810> yup, i will take photo when i get home
May 18 05:44:35 <Meiz_n810> school :/
May 18 05:44:53 <RST38h> Meiz: Family members?
May 18 05:45:36 <Meiz_n810> i don't thinks so
May 18 05:46:10 <RST38h> Dunno, that would be my first guess
May 18 05:46:50 <thux> morning
May 18 05:47:58 <thux> Meiz_n810: hope you can get new screen
May 18 05:48:39 <Meiz_n810> yeah, lets see if warranty covers those cracks :P
May 18 05:49:22 <thux> once one three years old throw my ipaq to the floor and broke it
May 18 05:49:56 <thux> device with large screen breaks easily
May 18 05:50:48 <thux> even in pocket if they touch keys or something
May 18 05:55:36 <RST38h> do not carry it in the sam epocket with keys.
May 18 05:56:54 <thux> i red about some .fi student who got 30.000e via iphone app store
May 18 05:57:32 <thux> he said that iphone apps is much easier to do than symbian app is it true?
May 18 05:57:50 <Stskeeps> symbian development is similar to poking your eyes out, so i guess anything's better..
May 18 05:57:53 <Stskeeps> :P
May 18 05:58:01 <thux> hehe
May 18 05:58:04 <Macer> haha
May 18 05:58:39 <thux> also apple takes apps from private persons
May 18 05:59:00 <Macer> they take apps from private persons? :)
May 18 05:59:02 <thux> nokia doesn't he said
May 18 05:59:27 <thux> with nokia you had to have company
May 18 05:59:30 <Macer> like a job that takes all things made by employees as their own "proprietary" stuff?
May 18 06:00:00 <Macer> i hate it when tv shows get military things wrong
May 18 06:00:17 <thux> both return 70% to dev
May 18 06:00:19 <Macer> like a marine officer with a giant shiny rank insignia on his cover
May 18 06:01:29 * RST38h heardabout people winning millions in lottery
May 18 06:01:44 <thux> this same guy also complaint that n5800 doesn't have 3d accel
May 18 06:02:01 <thux> and his games need that
May 18 06:02:35 <RST38h> creating a company isn't a big deal
May 18 06:02:46 <thux> in .fi it is
May 18 06:03:02 <liri> canola2 beta from the repos isn't working well for me (it hangs while playing an mp3). where should I find (in which repos) a stable version maybe?
May 18 06:03:02 <thux> you have to pay taxes and such
May 18 06:03:16 <RST38h> Few hundred bucks and you have got a nice Delaware-registered company
May 18 06:03:49 <RST38h> thux: Who cares about .fi? Nokia just wants a company
May 18 06:04:11 <Macer> lol
May 18 06:04:13 <RST38h> liri: run canola-cleanup then reinstall
May 18 06:04:23 <thux> RST38h: but if you are here and spend your money here
May 18 06:04:41 <RST38h> thux: Having a company has absolutely no relation to where you spend money
May 18 06:04:57 <thux> it it possible to use off-shore company but costly for student
May 18 06:05:04 <liri> RST38h: how do I re-install it? (just to remove, then install or is there a quicker way?)
May 18 06:05:11 <RST38h> thux: So, you have got yourself an international company
May 18 06:05:28 <RST38h> thux: As I said, registration related stuff is just a few hundred bucks
May 18 06:05:48 <RST38h> liri: You install it with app manager (make sure you remove extras-devel from the list)
May 18 06:05:54 <thux> RST38h: no not me, but know people who have them in jersey or gibraltar
May 18 06:05:59 <RST38h> liri: You remove it with canola-cleanup
May 18 06:06:23 <RST38h> thux: Company that isn't making money costs you next to nothing
May 18 06:06:44 <RST38h> thux: So, register one wherever it is cheap and does not incur annual costs, then present yourself to Nokia as a company
May 18 06:06:44 <liri> RST38h: ok. doesn't look like I have that canola-cleanup script
May 18 06:06:55 <RST38h> liri: Extras.
May 18 06:07:06 <liri> RST38h: I have canola, canolad and canola-thumbnailer
May 18 06:07:10 <liri> RST38h: a sec
May 18 06:07:27 <thux> RST38h: but you need offshore bank accounts and such and these app developers try to make money
May 18 06:08:02 <liri> RST38h: I have extras enabled
May 18 06:09:03 <RST38h> thux: No.
May 18 06:09:26 <RST38h> thux: Although you can probably just open one in a US bank, it won't cost you
May 18 06:09:48 <thux> ok that i didn't know
May 18 06:10:14 <thux> just heard about gibraltar swizz and jersey banks
May 18 06:14:37 <RST38h> You are talking tax evasion
May 18 06:14:50 <RST38h> You are not going to evade taxes. You just want a company.
May 18 06:15:09 <liri> RST38h: that canola-cleanup isn't found
May 18 06:15:24 <RST38h> Anyways, I am not sure why you would even NEED to get yourself into Nokia Store
May 18 06:15:37 <RST38h> Do you think it will make your application sell more?
May 18 06:17:01 <thux> i just red the story from newspaper and it said so
May 18 06:17:38 <thux> that's why asked why is iphone game developing easier than symbian?
May 18 06:18:29 <thux> also wondering why nokia doesn't use 3d accel?
May 18 06:18:43 <locutus> 'licensing issues'
May 18 06:19:26 <thux> ok so writing is as hard in both cases?
May 18 06:20:50 <RST38h> thux: The newspaper lied
May 18 06:21:56 <RST38h> http://gadgetblips.dailyradar.com/story/the_life_of_an_iphone_app_nasty_brutish_and_short/
May 18 06:22:10 <liri> ok I just un-installed canola from the app manager (it was canola2-beta-2.0.011 or something)
May 18 06:22:54 <RST38h> http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=22177
May 18 06:23:13 <RST38h> http://techblips.dailyradar.com/story/iphone_app_developers_threaten_to_sue_apple_over_late/
May 18 06:23:17 <RST38h> Off to work =)
May 18 06:28:40 <thux> RST38h: the story was about this software http://macmaa.com/2009/05/17/suomalainenkin-iphone-kehittaja-voi-tienata-hyvin/
May 18 06:39:27 <ShadowJK> <thux> you have to pay taxes and such
May 18 06:39:48 <ShadowJK> I think you can setup a Tmi with minimal in fees and you don't pay taxes unless you make more than 1000E profit, I think...
May 18 06:39:54 <ShadowJK> it was something like that :)
May 18 06:41:53 <thux> ShadowJK: yes :) but this pajazzo guy made 30.000e
May 18 06:44:55 <thux> but software money is theoretical to me cause i don't write #include <iostream> :) just envy how others get rich by making software
May 18 06:46:18 <ShadowJK> I hope nokia has woken up to branding now
May 18 06:47:23 <ShadowJK> like, how many would know that menu->tools->catalog takes you to something shop-like?
May 18 06:51:40 <thux> ShadowJK: true, not many i suppose
May 18 06:52:05 <ShadowJK> nevermind that "What's hot" and "What's new" in it are empty...
May 18 06:53:36 <liri> RST38h: thanks, installing canola-cleanup, executing it and re-installing canola2 seems to work, it's playing my music now
May 18 06:53:55 <liri> RST38h: though weird enough, I saw that cleanup script removing like dozen of packages which seem not really related like irreco and others
May 18 06:55:54 <rm_you> johnx: havent seen you on all day
May 18 06:56:39 <thux> noticed in symbian that there is many clients which at least theorically can do skype, like fring and iskoot and was it implus, but for linux it is only skype which do skype?
May 18 06:57:30 <ShadowJK> heh, Games category is empty too
May 18 06:57:48 <ShadowJK> there's fring for N810 too... I heard it sucks :P
May 18 07:00:05 <ShadowJK> so like.. over half of the categories in "Catalog" were empty
May 18 07:00:19 <ShadowJK> which is just silly, because I'm sure they could find some crap to put there
May 18 07:06:01 <ShadowJK> hm, it's marginally better through the wap browser (which is in media->services and nowhere near any internet-related items in the menu).. All the download bookmarks are empty and missing, of course, but there's a link to nokia which does have a download section with slightly more stuff...
May 18 07:06:20 <ShadowJK> I remember finding this place with many many things, but I can't figure out where that was in the menus :)
May 18 07:07:21 <ShadowJK> Oh there's a default link in the "proper" web browser too, to a third shop/download place, again with a handful apps :-)
May 18 07:11:34 <thux> ShadowJK: what phone you have or is it same in all s60s?
May 18 07:11:43 <ShadowJK> E70
May 18 07:11:53 <ShadowJK> and I bet it's different for every damn phone :)
May 18 07:12:47 <thux> hehe
May 18 07:22:22 * Stskeeps yawns
May 18 08:23:14 <Stskeeps> andre_k: 3635 is actually fixed and 4560 is a cause of it being open sourced :)
May 18 08:24:30 <andre_k> 3635 is already fixed?!
May 18 08:24:40 <Stskeeps> yes, it is
May 18 08:24:42 <Stskeeps> alarmd is in beta
May 18 08:24:44 <andre_k> great.
May 18 08:24:56 <andre_k> seems like nokia didn't realize themselves :-P
May 18 08:24:58 <Stskeeps> i'm just complaining cos they didn't go the whole way :)
May 18 08:25:05 <andre_k> okay. yeah, i see.
May 18 08:25:07 <andre_k> nice
May 18 08:25:16 <Stskeeps> (see http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/a/alarmd/ )
May 18 08:25:54 <andre_k> uh uh uh :)
May 18 08:26:48 * RST38h moos slightly
May 18 08:33:58 <suihkulokki> apt-get moo
May 18 08:35:08 <Meiz_n810> aptitude moo
May 18 08:35:14 <Meiz_n810> aptitude -v moo
May 18 08:35:23 <Meiz_n810> and so on
May 18 08:35:25 <Meiz_n810> :)
May 18 08:36:34 <RST38h> mount /mnt/moo
May 18 08:36:39 <RST38h> unmount /mnt/moo
May 18 08:36:48 <RST38h> fsck /mnt/moo
May 18 09:05:06 <lcuk> RST38h, if i mount daisy she goes moo
May 18 09:08:18 <RST38h> Umgh.
May 18 09:18:12 <Macer> can somene tell me a comcast dns?
May 18 09:25:11 <thux> is frozen bubble for maemo?
May 18 09:25:43 <RST38h> there are versions for different systems
May 18 09:25:48 <RST38h> including one for maemo
May 18 09:26:00 <thux> cool, just found frozen bubble for symbian
May 18 09:31:16 <crashanddie> if I want to buy a new battery for my n810, where should I go?
May 18 09:31:33 <crashanddie> ebay seems a bit dodgy, just dash out £20 for a genuine Nokia battery?
May 18 09:35:01 <lcuk> yes
May 18 09:35:08 <lcuk> and get a new case while you are at it :p
May 18 09:35:21 <crashanddie> what, the traveling poach?
May 18 09:35:37 <lcuk> yeah :D
May 18 09:35:42 <lcuk> i really like your idea btw
May 18 09:35:48 <crashanddie> does Nokia actually sell a "reckless pack" ?
May 18 09:35:55 <lcuk> its very different :)
May 18 09:36:09 <crashanddie> charger + battery + stylus + poach?
May 18 09:36:20 <lcuk> oh, i dunno about all that
May 18 09:36:27 <crashanddie> would be pretty handy :D
May 18 09:36:43 <lcuk> indeed it would
May 18 09:37:13 <lcuk> but the number of people who lose all that and need it replacing at the same time can be counted on one (broken) finger
May 18 09:37:32 * lcuk looks @ u
May 18 09:50:06 <Macer> wow
May 18 09:50:15 <Macer> nexenta has me about to just start ripping hair out by the roots
May 18 09:53:10 <RST38h> "Don't get mad. Get even."
May 18 09:54:45 <Myrtti> RST38h: that would leave a trail of carnage behind me
May 18 09:55:16 <RST38h> Myrtti: As long as the last mile is untraceable you are ok =)
May 18 09:55:50 <lcuk> and providing you dont leave your id behind
May 18 09:58:09 <Macer> ahhhhh!!
May 18 10:02:18 <Macer> finally. fixed it
May 18 10:02:22 <Macer> what a bastard :)
May 18 10:05:44 <florian> good morning
May 18 10:22:17 <lbt> dneary: hi...
May 18 10:22:50 <Stskeeps> Macer: how come?
May 18 10:23:14 <lbt> did you see my WikiTalk email?
May 18 10:25:12 <dneary> hi lbt
May 18 10:25:31 <dneary> Yeah - I'm going to be jumping into that thread this morning
May 18 10:25:38 <dneary> lbt: Nice idea
May 18 10:26:02 <dneary> I would be wary of things like navigation - where do new pages get linked from? Will we get a lot of new pages?
May 18 10:26:20 <lbt> Oh, it has the potential to create a real mess!
May 18 10:26:33 <dneary> We'd also need to be aware of editing issues - how to deal with duplicates? Merge articles? Indicate that an article had already been wikified?
May 18 10:26:49 <lbt> yes... I mentioned some of those problems
May 18 10:26:54 <lbt> and there are more
May 18 10:26:57 <dneary> indeed
May 18 10:27:07 <lbt> OTOH I think it may motivate the sifting
May 18 10:27:25 <lbt> and things like automating some tags
May 18 10:27:41 <lbt> and strongly suggesting a process
May 18 10:27:44 <lbt> should help
May 18 10:28:09 <lbt> eg 'forcing' a search before allowing a page to be auto-made
May 18 10:28:20 <lbt> it's a balance
May 18 10:28:50 <lbt> heh - strongly driven by my distaste for forums as an information store!!
May 18 10:29:31 <Jaffa> Ditto
May 18 10:32:07 * lbt wonders if he should approach IBM to patent the idea...
May 18 10:38:58 <lcuk> forums are good for testing and feedback and perhaps the "wikify me" button shouldnt actually make a wiki entry, but should flag a post as potential, if we have an interface to list them they can be organised as required
May 18 10:39:15 <Jaffa> Sounds good
May 18 10:39:30 <Jaffa> The flag could be a "wikiteam" tag
May 18 10:39:43 <lcuk> also, people happy with forum syntax arent always happy with wiki syntax
May 18 10:40:22 <lcuk> (like me, i can write a simple post, but dont know the first thing about wiki organisation or special things required or layout etc, and tbh dont ever want to have to know
May 18 10:40:39 * lcuk has enough tihngso n his plate
May 18 10:42:56 <lcuk> jaffa, sounds simple enough, but would users know to tag something with that
May 18 10:43:39 <lcuk> or will this be a button which behyind the scenes set it (simplest really?)
May 18 10:44:10 <Jaffa> lcuk: I was imagining the latter - but I've not been following lbt's comments too closely
May 18 10:44:11 <Macer> a marine caught in the middle of a family fued in a hillbilly romeo and juliet
May 18 10:44:13 <Macer> lol
May 18 10:44:48 <Macer> that damn hollywood can come up with anything!
May 18 10:45:17 <lcuk> jaffa, ditto, but i came across something over the weekend which seems to fit the bill between something that should be wikified but my fear of the wiki kicked in
May 18 10:45:22 * lbt has an all-singing proposal.... everything said here makes sense insofar as it's all in the same direction
May 18 10:45:33 <lcuk> good lbt :)
May 18 10:45:37 <RST38h> macer: what is the body count so far?
May 18 10:45:49 <lbt> at some point we stop refining/automating it
May 18 10:46:22 <lcuk> awww lbt, but that takes time away from our important pontification
May 18 10:46:23 <lbt> adding wikiteam tags is a good start thoug
May 18 10:46:39 <lbt> I would say that I was thinking of a thread-based approach
May 18 10:46:49 <lbt> where the entire thread was dumped into a page
May 18 10:46:57 <lcuk> seems reasonanle
May 18 10:47:00 <lbt> and then slashed back ruthlessly
May 18 10:47:35 <lbt> that's actually *really hard* to do today (AFAIK)
May 18 10:48:31 <lbt> bbl8r
May 18 10:50:50 <Macer> one brother/uncle
May 18 10:51:00 <Macer> :)
May 18 10:51:37 <Macer> ah well. screw this i'm going to sleep. i was trying to set up ldap in nexenta but it is being a real hair puller
May 18 10:59:19 <aquatix> Macer: nn
May 18 11:01:24 <pupnik> it's interesting the wide-ranging things ppl want to do with tabletsw
May 18 11:05:21 <RST38h> pupnik: Just indicates that what people really need is a StarTrek PADD
May 18 11:05:42 <RST38h> That has minimum quirks and "just works" (see iPhone)
May 18 11:06:06 <pupnik> to understand iphone, think of pop music stars
May 18 11:06:58 <pupnik> you solidly hit a lowest-common denominator.  some luck involved.  mostly marketing.   and then you get a feedback cycle in popularity.
May 18 11:07:22 <RST38h> Somehow, I do not think that iPhone qualifies for this theory
May 18 11:07:38 <pupnik> yes, i could be wrong on this
May 18 11:09:28 <RST38h> Funny think is, I do not really know what would qualify for this theory. Feature phones?
May 18 11:09:52 <RST38h> Actually, Samsung+LG in general, and netbooks as a segment
May 18 11:10:21 <pupnik> don't you think some people bought iphones on the 'popularity' and 'coolness' factor?
May 18 11:10:49 <pupnik> logical-and
May 18 11:11:16 <RST38h> I think most people bought iphones based on hype that was blown out of proportion long BEFORE iPhone went on sale
May 18 11:12:11 <RST38h> But, as we are talking of Steve Jobs with his unique powers to bend reality over, no reasonable theories have to apply here
May 18 11:12:53 <pupnik> did you like the NeXT RST38h ?
May 18 11:13:57 <RST38h> Yea, NeXT was cool
May 18 11:14:14 * RST38h got to use it extensively
May 18 11:15:14 <pupnik> i persuaded my employer to buy one,  but i didn't deliver on the promised software... so argh.
May 18 11:15:34 <pupnik> wanted to use the dsp for accelerated gene-homology searches
May 18 11:15:37 <pupnik> back in the day
May 18 11:15:59 <pupnik> they had a nice fractal browser running on the dsp
May 18 11:16:36 <RST38h> Using NeXT for anything custom wasn't a good idea, it was more or less like a standard Mac
May 18 11:19:36 <Stskeeps> 'lo jeremiah
May 18 11:19:42 <jeremiah> Hey Stskeeps!
May 18 11:19:46 <jeremiah> How are ya?
May 18 11:19:57 <jeremiah> Nice weather in our part of the world eh?
May 18 11:20:06 <Stskeeps> cloudy outside atm :P
May 18 11:20:27 <jeremiah> Here it is pretty sunny.
May 18 11:20:30 <jeremiah> :P
May 18 11:20:34 <pupnik> RST38h: on te contrary, i knew friends who became experts in ObjC and created custom software for major telecoms on NeXT and later NeXTStep
May 18 11:20:51 <jeremiah> NeXT was the bomb.
May 18 11:20:55 <jeremiah> Way ahead of its time
May 18 11:20:58 <RST38h> pupnik: Yes, but you said you wanted low level access to DSP?
May 18 11:21:12 <RST38h> jeremiah: So faw Symbian
May 18 11:21:17 <RST38h> s/faw/was
May 18 11:21:21 * RST38h cackles evilly
May 18 11:21:33 <aquatix> epoc ruled
May 18 11:21:34 <rmt> Wie würde man sagen, "Next Run", in Deutsch? .. Where run is a date-triggered event?
May 18 11:23:12 <pupnik> k rtue
May 18 11:23:17 <jeremiah> gengetopt? There is a library in maemo called gengetopt?
May 18 11:23:27 <pupnik> 'naechste ausfuehrung'
May 18 11:23:39 <pupnik> i think
May 18 11:23:47 <pupnik> thought it's ambiguous
May 18 11:23:57 <pupnik> ausfuehrung can also be a product launch
May 18 11:24:03 <pupnik> or rather product run
May 18 11:26:59 <sanjay6976> hi
May 18 11:27:39 <lcuk> hi sanjay6976 \o
May 18 11:27:40 <sanjay6976> applications of  which  version of maemo sdk  is supported by nokia N810
May 18 11:27:58 <lcuk> diablo 4.1
May 18 11:27:58 <sanjay6976> lcuk:hi
May 18 11:28:53 <sanjay6976>  can i put Qt applications over this
May 18 11:29:29 <lcuk> qt is not yet officially supported, but people have had good results using the qt framework to create apps, see lbt's shopper
May 18 11:30:40 <rmt> pupnik, In this case, it sends an email.. thanks.
May 18 11:31:32 <sanjay6976> k thanks i will check
May 18 11:31:56 <pupnik> note ae = umlaut A and ue = umlaut U
May 18 11:32:07 <VDVsx> sanjay6976, http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon
May 18 11:32:23 <VDVsx> forum nokia also have some qt for maemo docs
May 18 11:33:15 <sanjay6976> VDVsx: thanks i will check the link
May 18 11:54:47 <chx> Oh wow qt4 on the maemo? nice.
May 18 11:55:43 <Stskeeps> old news :)
May 18 12:05:29 <aspect> is there a way to get os2008 to be verbose on boot?
May 18 12:06:17 <jeremiah> aspect: There should be, and I should know it, but I don't.
May 18 12:06:22 <jeremiah> Some one here will know though.
May 18 12:06:23 <aspect> I have a recurring problem where it sits on the nokia screen with the blue bar at 100% for indeterminate lengths of time, apparently related to trouble reading the vfat on an mmc .. would be nice to have some indication of what's going on
May 18 12:06:43 <jeremiah> aspect: Does it boot?
May 18 12:06:48 <jeremiah> Can you read the logs?
May 18 12:07:05 <aspect> nope, just sits there until I get impatient and remove the battery
May 18 12:07:41 <aspect> I didn't think any useful logs would be kept persistently in that instance
May 18 12:07:54 <jeremiah> Yeah, not sure they would be.
May 18 12:08:04 <jeremiah> So you cannot boot at all?
May 18 12:08:13 <jeremiah> You may need to re-flash you OS.
May 18 12:08:25 <aspect> once I remove the sd card, it boots fine
May 18 12:08:32 <jeremiah> aspect: Ah, okay.
May 18 12:08:33 <jeremiah> Good
May 18 12:08:38 <pupnik> the samsung cheapo mp3 players now use linux + sdl
May 18 12:09:00 <pupnik> love how the GPL forces them to disclose that
May 18 12:09:02 <aspect> and putting the sd card in my laptop and fsck'ing has fixed it in the past .. but it keeps reocurring
May 18 12:09:16 <lcuk> new card?
May 18 12:09:19 <aquatix> and using another card?
May 18 12:09:23 <aspect> old card
May 18 12:09:52 <aspect> quite old; it came with my 2nd hand n800 about 6 months ago
May 18 12:10:03 <lcuk> try it with a different card
May 18 12:10:15 <lcuk> if that works, throw away the old one and move on
May 18 12:10:22 <lcuk> you have already identified the problem lol
May 18 12:10:31 <aspect> righto
May 18 12:10:57 <jeremiah> lcuk: Do those flash cards die often?
May 18 12:11:03 <jeremiah> I haven't had that yet happen to me.
May 18 12:11:08 <aspect> the laptop hasn't had any issues reading the card, and someone else mentioned a vfat related issue, so I thought it might be that
May 18 12:11:08 <jeremiah> But I don't use a lot of them.
May 18 12:12:16 <jeremiah> And, your original question aspect was getting boot info from the maemo. Does anyone know how to turn off the Nokia boot image so one can see dmesg info?
May 18 12:12:21 * aspect ordered a new card ~3 weeks ago but the damn retailer screwed up delivery so it's not here yet
May 18 12:13:04 <RST38h> jeremiah: they do die every now and then
May 18 12:13:39 <RST38h> jeremiah: but you usually do not see it as the card remaps its blocks internally to avoid immediate FAIL
May 18 12:13:52 <jeremiah> RST38h: Aha. Kinda clever. :)
May 18 12:14:18 * aquatix should get a 32GB microsd
May 18 12:14:25 <aquatix> that'd be... spacy
May 18 12:15:02 <aspect> 8GB is still the decent price point here .. fortunately the n800 can take 2 :)
May 18 12:16:28 <aquatix> hm, can't seem to find a 32GB microsd one
May 18 12:16:37 * aquatix has 8GB already
May 18 12:20:30 <aspect> right, just retested: laptop can read the sd card without issues, but even after fsck'ing the nit has the same boot problem: is this an indication of a problem with the card that the laptop's tolerant to but not the nit?
May 18 12:22:59 <aquatix> might be
May 18 12:23:12 <aquatix> maybe just a matter of the laptop having more power for the reader
May 18 12:23:28 <aquatix> you don't have another SD card to test with?
May 18 12:23:52 <aspect> makes sense
May 18 12:24:36 <aspect> only one other, but this card went from problematic to fine after a reformat previously so I thought it might be on the fs level.  Given how it's behaving now I guess not
May 18 12:25:17 <aspect> (the other's been working fine throughout)
May 18 12:26:07 <jeremiah> ping khertan
May 18 12:26:37 <RST38h> aspect: do you use it with an sd size convertor in the tablet?
May 18 12:28:48 <aspect> RST38h: yes ... I just chucked it in the external mini slot and we're booted ... I was having problems in the external slot before reformatting though
May 18 12:29:53 <RST38h> all right
May 18 12:29:55 <aspect> I also use the converter to mount the card in the laptop, if that makes any difference
May 18 12:30:07 <RST38h> then 70% probability that it is the converter
May 18 12:30:21 <RST38h> N810 is for some reason very sensitive to the converter type
May 18 12:31:03 <aspect> hmm
May 18 12:31:26 <aspect> it's an n800, and that convertor has been used with the other card without issue since I've had the tablet
May 18 12:31:52 <aquatix> the card itself is a minisd? or microsd?
May 18 12:31:59 <aspect> mini
May 18 12:33:01 <aspect> ok, it's fine if I swap the cards around: 128Mb in the adapter, 1Gb straight on the external slot
May 18 12:33:23 <pupnik> music is sharing of the human experience
May 18 12:33:24 <pupnik> sharing music is holy
May 18 12:33:50 <aquatix> aspect: odd, but great :)
May 18 12:33:54 <aquatix> pupnik: *grin*
May 18 12:34:44 <aspect> come to think of it, the problem with the 1Gb card in the external slot before was different: it would boot but not read it, suggesting the fs issue mentioned before.  I guess the 1Gb card + convertor is bad news here
May 18 12:34:45 <pupnik> any maemo people who want to hear great speakers and coming through Frankfurt germany, should really stop by
May 18 12:35:39 <pupnik> http://www.vmpseurope.com/RM2.htm
May 18 13:00:17 <pupnik> anybody want to finish the fullspeed SNES emu port?
May 18 13:45:17 <liri> is the flite (voice synthesis) package available in the repos or do I need to enable the extras chinook repo to get it?
May 18 13:54:47 <pupnik> 15:52 <@Geronimo> pupnik: love yourself
May 18 13:54:49 <pupnik> 15:53 <@pupnik> best advice ever
May 18 13:54:52 <pupnik> 15:53 <@pupnik> thanks
May 18 13:56:48 <aquatix> :)
May 18 14:21:19 <StsN800> jesus h christ a bad hailstorm
May 18 14:36:58 <macmaN6789> howdy
May 18 14:38:07 <macmaN6789> anyone here that's running any of the full linux distros on their tablet
May 18 14:38:12 <macmaN6789> with Xorg
May 18 14:38:43 <macmaN6789> I'm trying to find out if the Virtual keyword would work in Display
May 18 14:41:04 <macmaN6789> slonopotamus with gentoo perhaps?
May 18 14:42:18 <slonopotamus> macmaN6789, i use florence (http://florence.sf.net). it has minor quirks but pretty usable in general
May 18 14:44:45 <macmaN6789> was that an autoreply
May 18 14:44:51 <macmaN6789> slonopotamus: test
May 18 14:45:19 <macmaN6789> or did you read "virtual keyboard"
May 18 14:45:20 <macmaN6789> :)
May 18 14:45:23 <slonopotamus> macmaN6789, i use florence (http://florence.sf.net). it has minor quirks but pretty usable in general
May 18 14:45:29 <macmaN6789> ah ok, autoreply
May 18 14:45:31 <slonopotamus> :D
May 18 14:45:38 <andrewfblack> Hello
May 18 14:45:53 <slonopotamus> macmaN6789, hello :)
May 18 14:46:09 <macmaN6789> privet marat
May 18 14:47:21 <macmaN6789> so.. any thoughts
May 18 14:47:57 <slonopotamus> florence works :)
May 18 14:48:32 <macmaN6789> lol I'm not talking about the keyboard..
May 18 14:48:47 <slonopotamus> <macmaN6789> I'm trying to find out if the Virtual keyword would work in Display
May 18 14:48:53 <macmaN6789> yeah
May 18 14:49:18 <macmaN6789> Virtual xdim ydim
May 18 14:49:18 <macmaN6789> This optional entry specifies the virtual screen resolution to be used. xdim must be a multiple of either 8 or 16 for most
May 18 14:49:18 <macmaN6789> drivers, and a multiple of 32 when running in monochrome mode. The given value will be rounded down if this is not the case.
May 18 14:49:18 <macmaN6789> Video modes which are too large for the specified virtual size will be rejected. If this entry is not present, the virtual
May 18 14:49:20 <macmaN6789> screen resolution will be set to accommodate all the valid video modes given in the Modes entry. Some drivers/hardware combi-
May 18 14:49:23 <macmaN6789> nations do not support virtual screens. Refer to the appropriate driver-specific documentation for details.
May 18 14:49:39 <macmaN6789> can I get a panning display in the tablet
May 18 14:49:50 <slonopotamus> dunno, haven't tried
May 18 14:49:55 <slonopotamus> brb, need to change machine
May 18 14:56:20 <Bobbe> sorry for the off-topic here
May 18 14:56:29 <Bobbe> But I just can't pronounce "Maemo" lol
May 18 14:56:49 <lopz> hola
May 18 14:57:03 <Bobbe> hola
May 18 14:57:16 <Bobbe> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=288357
May 18 14:58:11 <Bobbe> the guy who actually came up with the name said this: (sorry for flooding)
May 18 14:58:16 <Bobbe> mah as the beginning of my
May 18 14:58:16 <Bobbe> eh as the "e" in "pet"
May 18 14:58:16 <Bobbe> mo as in Monica, but only pronouncing the M and the O.
May 18 14:59:42 <Bobbe> If anybody can pronounce this and record into a sound file I would be immensely grateful. I know it's fairly inconsequential, but it's been bugging me endlessly since I read the post =)
May 18 15:01:25 <ElPollo> Hey all. Simple question (I hope). How can I use a seperate partition as /home in Diablo? Simply adding it to the fstab (like I would to on any linux distro) does not seem to work.
May 18 15:04:02 <robtaylor> Bobbe: i don't think there's a prescribed way to pronounce it - it came from running pwgen :)
May 18 15:05:08 <Myrtti> robtaylor: the way Bobbe described it though is a way a Finn would pronounce it ;-)
May 18 15:05:15 <slonopotamus> i'm back
May 18 15:05:18 <robtaylor> Myrtti: it is indeed :)
May 18 15:05:27 <Bobbe> robtaylor, I'm aware. There was a thread about this in the forum, and the guy who actually came up with the name (and used it thoroughly for something else before it became Maemo, for whose name he did have a pronunciation) posted and said that's how he meant it to be pronounced
May 18 15:05:55 <Bobbe> Myrtti, true. I put the WinXP speech synthesizer to say it and it came up with "MY-mou"
May 18 15:06:01 <robtaylor> Bobbe: Jesus Climent?
May 18 15:06:05 <Bobbe> yeap
May 18 15:06:29 <Robot101> he was a wannabe finn the whole time he was in .fi :)
May 18 15:06:42 <Robot101> getting up at 6:30am, lunch at 11am, sauna every day :)
May 18 15:06:46 <Bobbe> lol
May 18 15:07:09 <Myrtti> OY! What's wrong in being a Finn ;-)
May 18 15:07:14 <Bobbe> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=287259#post287259
May 18 15:07:35 <Robot101> Myrtti: poor taste in beer? :)
May 18 15:07:59 <Bobbe> The land where people can buy coke from a vending machine using their cell phones
May 18 15:07:59 <Bobbe> (and it's not japan lol)
May 18 15:08:06 <Bobbe> Er... I mean the dring
May 18 15:08:08 <Bobbe> *drink
May 18 15:08:11 <Myrtti> Robot101: Finnish beer is bad anyway, it's the cheapest way of getting drunk, but nobody in their right mind drinks it for enjoyment anyway
May 18 15:08:25 * Myrtti prefers ciders though
May 18 15:08:41 <Myrtti> (or English ale)
May 18 15:17:35 <RST38h> Just one Maemo job vacancy left!
May 18 15:17:57 <GAN800> I'm not convinced by WikiTalk
May 18 15:18:12 <RST38h> (btw, what does a shopping cart doing at that job vacancies page? =))
May 18 15:18:27 <GAN800> Perhaps, mostly, because I'm convinced it's going to create a lot of work for me. :P
May 18 15:19:12 <GAN800> Bobbe, look up Quim's LinuxTag keynote on archive.org
May 18 15:20:29 <RST38h> is WikiTalk some automated way to turn forum threads into Wikis or what?
May 18 15:29:55 <GAN800> RST38h, yes.
May 18 15:30:09 <GAN800> I have doubts about it, though.
May 18 15:30:10 <andrewfblack> GAN800: You always need more work
May 18 15:30:16 <GAN800> Spam seems likely.
May 18 15:30:38 <GAN800> andrewfblack, not now that I'm actually working. :P
May 18 15:35:37 <cosmo> finnish beers are not that bad.. try some american ones
May 18 15:46:39 <GAN800> phonet in oFono. Gotta be RX-71
May 18 15:49:12 <Corsac> ?
May 18 15:49:18 <Corsac> phonet?
May 18 15:49:38 <GAN800> GSM driver
May 18 15:49:49 <Corsac> ok
May 18 15:50:00 <GAN800> Mentioned in the Fremantle kernel in a number of places.
May 18 15:50:04 <Corsac> so rx71 may have a gsm stack in the end?
May 18 15:50:15 <Corsac> (i thought it would have only 3G)
May 18 15:52:14 <GAN800> Don't confuse RX-51 and RX-71
May 18 15:52:23 <Corsac> oh.
May 18 15:52:39 <Corsac> what's rx-71 then?
May 18 15:53:11 <GAN800> Something after RX-51
May 18 15:57:02 <GAN800> Disabling the stylus keyboards seems to have cleared up some of the enter problems.
May 18 15:58:13 <GAN800> erm, why does everybody seem to think oFono is a platform?
May 18 15:58:37 <Stskeeps> it is technically a platform
May 18 15:58:40 <Stskeeps> or a framework
May 18 15:58:47 * GAN800 hits JamieBennett with a cluebat
May 18 15:59:08 <Pavlov> the wording of all the ofono announcements was weird
May 18 16:00:32 <GAN800> Stskeeps, it sure aint no replacement-for-Maemo-platform platform. :P
May 18 16:02:35 <GAN800> damn Planet whitepage login
May 18 16:03:16 <Stskeeps> GAN800: sufficiently bloated it might
May 18 16:03:34 <GAN800> Lotta bloat. :P
May 18 16:03:55 <GAN800> Anyway, that's clearly not the direction they're intending to go.
May 18 16:14:44 <Bobbe> Hey General
May 18 16:14:47 <GAN800> Seriously, MicroB's virtual input merits somebody a severe beating.
May 18 16:15:37 <Bobbe> GAN800, but the fact that the word was meaningless before pwgen spilled it and somebody gave meaning to it.
May 18 16:15:39 <Bobbe> it's sort of like watching a neologism emerge
May 18 16:16:04 <Bobbe> now discussing a standard for how to pronounce a words sounds a lot like we're esperanto-ing the whole thing
May 18 16:16:28 <GAN800> Can't login to maemo.org to beat baloo with a thumb bat for that horrible researched post
May 18 16:16:58 <Bobbe> I'm fairly sure that over time the English-biased pronunciation "MAY-mou" will take over
May 18 16:17:11 <Bobbe> but it's interesting to see how it was meant to be pronounced
May 18 16:17:39 <Bobbe> about the quote, is it the one that is mentioned in the forum thread?
May 18 16:17:57 <GAN800> Bobbe, there is no official pronounciation, but people always ask for something so I put the IPA on wikipedia
May 18 16:18:28 <GAN800> quote?
May 18 16:21:20 <yerga> I could record how to pronounce it, if I find something to record it.
May 18 16:21:43 <GAN800> yerga, Quim's got one from LinuxTag on archive.org
May 18 16:22:00 <GAN800> I tried to pull a sample from that last year but failed miserably.
May 18 16:22:19 <Bobbe> GAN800, I meant 'keynote'
May 18 16:22:20 <GAN800> Although I about died laughing playing it in a loop. ;)
May 18 16:22:28 <yerga> hehe ;)
May 18 16:22:31 <GAN800> oh, dunno.
May 18 16:24:58 <Bobbe> I'm kinda fascinated by how this will play out
May 18 16:25:07 <Bobbe> English teachers are weird ppl
May 18 16:28:27 <andrewfblack> I don't think I've ever spoken the word maemo I normally just say the tablet runs linux in stead of the tablet runs maemo
May 18 16:30:47 <Bobbe> andrewfblack, exactly because there is no widely-accepted pronunciation. If there was, you'd probably confident enough to say something like "It runs Maemo. It's a Linux distro for NITs"
May 18 16:35:16 <luke-jr> I pronounce Maemo "My Moe"
May 18 16:35:56 <luke-jr> what is the "correct" way?
May 18 16:37:01 <Bobbe> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=2994&page=5
May 18 16:38:40 <Bobbe> luke-jr, ur a native english speaker right?
May 18 16:38:48 <luke-jr> yes
May 18 16:39:01 <Bobbe> Thought so.
May 18 16:39:07 <luke-jr> but I also speak a little Nihongo, so that could bias me
May 18 16:39:21 <Bobbe> the speech synthesizer in winxp says it exactly like you
May 18 16:39:28 <luke-jr> lol
May 18 16:40:18 <Bobbe> lol if you were japanese-biased you would say it in three syllables
May 18 16:40:18 <Bobbe> mah-e-MO
May 18 16:40:30 <Bobbe> "e" as the phonetic symbol I mean
May 18 16:40:37 <Bobbe> Like the sound of 'a' in 'day'
May 18 16:41:00 <luke-jr> I said a little :p
May 18 16:41:15 <Bobbe> lol
May 18 16:41:20 <Bobbe> (I need IPA for mirc or sth)
May 18 16:41:44 <luke-jr> or stop using Windows crap
May 18 16:42:11 <Bobbe> tell linux to make my 3g modem work =)
May 18 16:42:17 <Bobbe> I'd LOVE to ditch bill
May 18 16:42:27 <Bobbe> anyway guys, gotta get to work
May 18 16:42:29 <Bobbe> cya later
May 18 16:42:56 <luke-jr> Bobbe: tell your 3g modem to stop being idiots
May 18 16:43:03 <luke-jr> and blame the right people
May 18 16:43:04 <luke-jr> first, them
May 18 16:43:06 <luke-jr> next, you
May 18 16:43:10 <Bobbe> already did, several times
May 18 16:43:12 <luke-jr> (since you bought it)
May 18 16:43:13 <Bobbe> I don't blame linux at all
May 18 16:43:23 <Bobbe> they have made AMAZING work in ubuntu with 3g modems
May 18 16:43:42 <Bobbe> works right out of the box
May 18 16:43:42 <Bobbe> for the lucky ones
May 18 16:43:42 <Bobbe> it detects mine, installs it, connects...
May 18 16:43:53 <Bobbe> and disconnects somberly after 30-40 seconds
May 18 16:44:28 <Bobbe> will do so three or more times, then won't connect anymore. it even halts lsusb when I try to run it with it in this way. If I remove it and put it back, it detects it agains... for 30 seconds
May 18 16:44:41 <luke-jr> NDISwrapper?
May 18 16:44:48 <Bobbe> anyway, zte should go to hell
May 18 16:45:37 <Bobbe> hm, never tried it
May 18 16:45:48 <Bobbe> but linux does detect it as a usb modem
May 18 16:45:52 <Bobbe> I can wvdial it and everything
May 18 16:46:03 <Bobbe> it appear in lsusb
May 18 16:46:12 <Bobbe> but then again, for 30 secs only
May 18 16:46:15 <Bobbe> but I'll try it later
May 18 16:46:22 <Bobbe> gotta run now. thanks luke-jr =)
May 18 17:38:15 <Guest6112_522> .
May 18 17:49:54 <napsy> Hello. I've downloaded a file in the Document folder. Now I can't access the Documents folder in that app. i can't see any of them. How do I access the nokia  filesystem?
May 18 17:50:30 <GAN800> What app?
May 18 17:50:42 <napsy> Transmission ;)
May 18 17:50:47 <GAN800> Documents is ~/MyDocs/.documents
May 18 17:51:17 <napsy> Oh they're hidden
May 18 17:51:49 <GAN800> i18n stuff
May 18 17:52:01 <timeless_mbp> yeah, they're magically localized
May 18 17:52:17 <timeless_mbp> would you prefer they be Documents.{xx-xxx-x-xxx-x-x-x-x-x-x-x} ? :)
May 18 17:52:31 <timeless_mbp> that's one of the windows approaches
May 18 17:52:35 <napsy> Hm so how do I access hidden files
May 18 17:52:54 <timeless_mbp> create a symlink that isn't hidden ;-)
May 18 17:52:57 <GAN800> Stupid 5800 . . . crashes on GMail messages no matter what now.
May 18 17:54:22 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: I would rather them be named normally and let the UI remap them like it does anyway
May 18 17:55:27 <timeless_mbp> it would confuse users of stupid apps for other languages
May 18 17:55:56 * andrewfblack runs and hides from his minimalist 2.0 thread
May 18 17:56:05 <luke-jr> no more than it already does
May 18 17:56:09 <timeless_mbp> nah
May 18 17:56:22 <timeless_mbp> this way no one sees it unless the app is "special"
May 18 17:56:33 <timeless_mbp> instead of confusing all the non English speakers
May 18 17:56:46 <timeless_mbp> it is arguably better for the ecosystem
May 18 17:56:52 <timeless_mbp> i'm not saying it's right
May 18 17:56:56 <timeless_mbp> or actually defending it
May 18 17:57:01 <timeless_mbp> (i mostly think it's stupid)
May 18 17:57:02 <luke-jr> riiight, better to not see my files at all, than to see them non-localized
May 18 17:57:09 <timeless_mbp> it's true
May 18 17:57:16 <luke-jr> no it's not
May 18 17:57:21 <timeless_mbp> this way 100% of the population complains to the app vendor
May 18 17:57:27 <timeless_mbp> instead of all the people who can't complain in English
May 18 17:57:32 <napsy> timeless_mbp: ls says operation is not permitted when I try to link .documents
May 18 17:57:37 <timeless_mbp> ln?
May 18 17:57:42 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: ok, so it's a good idea for BETA products
May 18 17:57:42 <napsy> Yes
May 18 17:57:53 <luke-jr> but FINAL products should not HAVE complaints :p
May 18 17:57:57 <timeless_mbp> napsy: exactly what did you write?
May 18 17:58:14 <napsy> ln .documents docs
May 18 17:58:21 <timeless_mbp> you want ln -s
May 18 17:58:27 <timeless_mbp> ln would make a hardlink
May 18 17:58:30 <timeless_mbp> which requires you to be root
May 18 17:58:33 <timeless_mbp> -s makes a symlink
May 18 17:58:44 <timeless_mbp> which is what i wrote earlier...
May 18 17:58:47 <napsy> Ok tnx it worked
May 18 17:58:56 <andrewfblack> RST38h: what do you think of the the minimalist theme?
May 18 17:59:53 * andrewfblack wonders why so many people view Talk on there phones when they have a tablet in there pocket
May 18 18:00:12 <timeless_mbp> s/there/their/
May 18 18:00:46 <andrewfblack> you guys knew what i mean :)
May 18 18:11:13 <RST38h> andrew: Well, aside from that 100kB thing, my comments are somewhere at page #2
May 18 18:11:45 <lcuk> andrewfblack, surely the answer to that is because theres no wifi everywhere
May 18 18:11:56 <RST38h> andrew: I think the main screen needs some separators between items. Nothing fancy, just thin lines
May 18 18:12:19 <andrewfblack> RST38h: what name do you post in t.m.o on?
May 18 18:12:35 <RST38h> andrew: I think the top menu is way larger than necessary, making it in normally sized, bold font on a differently colored background will do the job
May 18 18:12:38 <RST38h> andrew: fms
May 18 18:13:04 <RST38h> andrew: The result will look like a thin light-colored menubar
May 18 18:13:04 <andrewfblack> RST38h: ahh I like you better in chat room :)
May 18 18:13:23 <andrewfblack> most people want finger clickable menu bar though
May 18 18:13:36 <RST38h> andrew: In forum, I basically try to systemize comments, that is why it is somewhat impersonal
May 18 18:14:13 <RST38h> andrew: weirdly, it will still be finger clickable, as the menu items are elongated
May 18 18:14:36 <RST38h> May need to use a nail...
May 18 18:15:24 <andrewfblack> RST38h: on the main screen seporators you want lines between each category or each sub forum as well?
May 18 18:15:49 <RST38h> andrew: I would use thin 1-pixel borders around categories and thin lines between subforums
May 18 18:16:07 <RST38h> andrew: may show category name on a slightly lighter background
May 18 18:16:32 <andrewfblack> I will give it a try I was asked by some people to removed the colored backgrounds behind them at first but I think lines will work ok
May 18 18:16:36 <RST38h> andrew: see comment #5 in the thread
May 18 18:16:58 <RST38h> as long as there are some separators (whatever they are), the whole page should look much better IMHO
May 18 18:17:16 <andrewfblack> yeah I remember your post now just didn't know it was you
May 18 18:17:27 <RST38h> andrew: UserCP just needs to be a normal vertical menu, really
May 18 18:17:41 <qgil> hi andrewfblack, thanks for the good work!
May 18 18:17:46 <RST38h> Has got lots of long options, no reason trying to make it horizontal
May 18 18:17:58 <qgil> GAN8001: ping?
May 18 18:18:01 <andrewfblack> I agree on that point I was just trying to keep people from complaining about wasted space
May 18 18:18:04 <andrewfblack> qgil: thanks
May 18 18:18:19 <andrewfblack> RST38h: or scrolling
May 18 18:18:41 <napsy> Hm it seems my internal mmc2 memory is read only. Can I remount it?
May 18 18:19:00 <RST38h> andrew: it is usercp, people visit it rarely
May 18 18:19:23 <qgil> any user of Advanced Backlight?
May 18 18:19:32 <RST38h> napsy: I suggest you read about The Bug first
May 18 18:19:35 <RST38h> qgil: yes, what?
May 18 18:19:54 <napsy> It's a bug?
May 18 18:19:57 <andrewfblack> RST38h: I figure more people will use it now on minimalist then any other theme since its more of a link hub now then a user cp
May 18 18:20:01 <Stskeeps> <- user too
May 18 18:20:03 <qgil> is AB playing with the light sensor as well or just with the % defined by the user?
May 18 18:20:14 <RST38h> napsy: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=18043
May 18 18:20:29 <RST38h> qgil: I *think* it is fixed
May 18 18:21:04 <qgil> RST38h: the thing is, we initially took the action of having a full slider to define the brightness, just like the volume
May 18 18:21:05 <RST38h> andrew: just put subscribed threads link on top :)
May 18 18:21:08 <andrewfblack> RST38h: the size part there really isn't anymore code I can strip away without removing features.
May 18 18:21:23 <RST38h> andrew: can I have that js file? =)
May 18 18:21:37 <qgil> however, the tests show that is quite complex to play with 0-100% + light sensor in a meaningful way
May 18 18:21:49 <andrewfblack> there is js in all the theme template files
May 18 18:22:18 <RST38h> qgil: maybe a checkbox "Auto" is the answer?
May 18 18:22:22 <qgil> RST38h: so this is why I was wondering how AB does it, with or without light sensor, because then the calibration is more complex
May 18 18:22:35 <qgil> RST38h: "Auto" what?  :)
May 18 18:22:37 <lcuk> rm_you, wakey wakey, qgil wants you
May 18 18:22:45 <rm_you> aye aye cap'n
May 18 18:22:51 <qgil> hi there
May 18 18:22:57 <rm_you> hey qgil, lcuk
May 18 18:23:00 <lcuk> \o
May 18 18:23:07 <qgil> rm_you: please read above my comments about AB + light sensor
May 18 18:23:12 <andrewfblack> qgil: think nokia can send me a new s60 phone to design a t.m.o mobile theme on :)
May 18 18:23:22 <lcuk> heh afb
May 18 18:23:49 <rm_you> ah yes
May 18 18:23:50 <qgil> andrewfblack: Nokia is sending you something better than a S60 phone: a real betatester  ;)
May 18 18:23:52 <andrewfblack> lcuk: can't blame a man for trying thats how i got my 770 for test stuff on
May 18 18:24:01 <rm_you> qgil: light sensor support was one of my next tasks.
May 18 18:24:15 <qgil> rm_you: then the theory is confirmed
May 18 18:24:17 <rm_you> qgil: there was quite a bit of discussion as to how we would interface in a meaningful way, yes
May 18 18:24:24 <andrewfblack> qgil: I would rather have the phone :)
May 18 18:24:27 <lcuk> no blame at all :) you are doing the community members a valuable service :)
May 18 18:24:34 <qgil> rm_you: the guys in the "light laboratory" (however they called it)
May 18 18:24:44 <qgil> said that it's not easy
May 18 18:24:55 <rm_you> qgil: what we decided was something like a "light level scheduler" i believe, or an enabled/disabled checkbox for the light sensor
May 18 18:24:57 <qgil> and they have fallen back to the 5 positions
May 18 18:25:04 <lcuk> qgil, i have covered my light sensor up with a little sticker :)
May 18 18:25:13 <lcuk> it stops the random dim changes from happening ;)
May 18 18:25:13 <qgil> now having a better calibration in steps
May 18 18:25:19 <qgil> so the lowest is really low etc
May 18 18:25:21 <lcuk> ive got some spare "im a star" and "well done" ones ;)
May 18 18:25:25 <andrewfblack> hmm now that I have everyone hooked on new minimalist I should charge for updates lol you want you bug fixed $5 each lol
May 18 18:25:32 <rm_you> qgil: yes, the five steps would be more meaningful if they were configurable
May 18 18:25:47 <RST38h> qgil: Auto makes it control backlight with light sensor
May 18 18:25:59 <lcuk> ahhh but andrewfblack that would assume you left bugs, and a professional such as your self will make it right first time :P
May 18 18:26:05 <RST38h> qgil: When auto unchecked, it would be fixed brightness
May 18 18:26:20 <RST38h> andrew: here is something that bugs me
May 18 18:26:40 <qgil> guys, the thing is: if you find good 5 steps then the bug majority of users won't care
May 18 18:26:46 <rm_you> qgil: yes, having the ability to enable/disable light sensor control was something we thought was very important
May 18 18:26:47 <RST38h> andrew: In the original ITT, there was a "mobile" theme, very simple one, that only took 30kB per page or even less
May 18 18:26:49 <qgil> the bIg ;)
May 18 18:27:05 <andrewfblack> lcuk: I think there was one real bug so far a missing | other then that its basically preference on the look.
May 18 18:27:13 <RST38h> andrew: how come the new one needs 100kB of JS? Has something important changed?
May 18 18:27:23 <qgil> I think what bug people was that the lowest leverl was still too bright, and AB had an answer for that
May 18 18:27:30 <lcuk> if the light sensor was +- 10% of the middle of a step it wouldnt matter
May 18 18:27:38 <rm_you> qgil: yes, that was the initial primary reason for the creation of AB
May 18 18:27:44 <lcuk> yeah it did, it just knocked it to minimum minimum
May 18 18:27:51 <andrewfblack> RST38h: this isn't the mobile theme I'm making, I could make a mobile theme that used that much but you would lose thanks, quick reply and some other stuff
May 18 18:28:10 <RST38h> andrew: I do not really mind losing any of that
May 18 18:28:21 <rm_you> qgil: now it is a bit more than just that, but people do still find complete and easy control with a full slider useful, I believe
May 18 18:28:27 <andrewfblack> RST38h: I have offered to do a mobile theme but I've been waiting and being selfish about it, I guess I should go ahead and do it
May 18 18:28:48 <RST38h> andrew: By all means, ask Quim - he needs to put his E71 into action :)
May 18 18:28:54 <lcuk> rm_you, the only one ive heard people really complain about is the lowest minimum, the other steps are just fluff :P
May 18 18:28:59 <rm_you> qgil: i know I would still prefer it to a five step system, though admittedly most users would probably be ok this time around if the steps were configurable
May 18 18:29:01 <qgil> andrewfblack: (((the mobile version HAD thanks and I used it a lot - nothing else though, you could strip away anything but the content)))
May 18 18:29:06 * RST38h is actually in somewhat better state than Quim, as his phone has higher resolution
May 18 18:29:17 <RST38h> qgil: 100% agree
May 18 18:29:52 <lcuk> ahhh,, the age old problem of defining a user interface that makes everyone happy :)
May 18 18:29:54 <qgil> rm_you: can those 5 steps be configured now even if there is no UI for it?
May 18 18:30:03 <andrewfblack> qgil: I guess I'll give up on bumming a free phone and start work on it this week
May 18 18:30:12 <rm_you> qgil: no
May 18 18:30:21 <andrewfblack> I was kinda holding mobile theme hostage for a phone lol
May 18 18:31:15 <qgil> andrewfblack: you can alway try with AB + rotation... 480px wide is a good hint  :)
May 18 18:31:27 <rm_you> qgil: the main advantage of something like AB in the future of maemo (if the light team fixes the UI for the new backlight controller) is statusbar space efficiency (combining multiple functions) and rotation support
May 18 18:32:13 <qgil> rm_you: the status area is totally reshaped, rotation support is part of the system now
May 18 18:32:15 <rm_you> even if rotation support is made official in fremantle (any word on that?) it is still very much a convenient and space efficient way to control all of that, without using three different buttons for no reason
May 18 18:32:19 <lcuk> it makes sense that the 5 step ui had light levels:   10 30 50 70 90   which gave the sensor room to adjust but no way to ever get it lower than low.  abl just lets you choose anything 0..100
May 18 18:32:20 <rm_you> qgil: ok
May 18 18:32:58 <rm_you> qgil: are there screenshots or anything of the new UI area? i have been a bit out of the loop for a bit
May 18 18:33:28 <qgil> rm_you: not about the status area, but coming in the next beta release
May 18 18:33:50 <rm_you> qgil: ok, would be interesting to see how that works. any details about the reshaping that you can divulge?
May 18 18:33:58 <qgil> (if nothing weird happens, that is - aka don't quote me when I'm at home digesting my dinner)  ;)
May 18 18:34:07 <rm_you> lol ok
May 18 18:34:58 <andrewfblack> qgil: only thing I kinda worry about doing mobile theme without a mobile is font sizes and navigation
May 18 18:35:01 <rm_you> Is the new app going to be Open or will it be part of a set of proprietary apps like the last set?
May 18 18:35:13 <qgil> rm_you: it's better that you wait and see, otherwise is like explaining a painting over the phone
May 18 18:35:34 <andrewfblack> I guess if phones are touch screen it wont matter
May 18 18:35:36 <RST38h> andrew: no touch screen in most nokia phones
May 18 18:35:56 <qgil> andrewfblack: actually you could just keep doing the minimalistic minimal, you are not far frok it imo
May 18 18:35:59 <RST38h> andrew: use default font size, do not force your own, the phone will figure it out
May 18 18:36:13 <qgil> now that there is the classic bright/dark available, why not
May 18 18:36:55 <rm_you> qgil: heh, alright... I suppose I will have to see how that develops... If the backlight is fully configurable in the new version, the statusbar doesn't suffer from clutter issues, and rotation support is officially built in, then I suppose my effort would be better spent fitting AB into the Mer side of things
May 18 18:37:17 <qgil> rm_you: I don't think the brightness will be user configurable, not via UI at least
May 18 18:37:42 <andrewfblack> well minimalist theme is designed for tablets over data connection its suppose to be every feature of regular site minus the images and a little better layout.  Had alot of comlaints about the old minimalist missing to many options
May 18 18:37:47 <qgil> we really strive to make life simple to end users, and most of them don't care about brightness as long as it responds to their expectations
May 18 18:37:52 <rm_you> qgil: hrm... well, you are right still, normal users probably won't be as upset if the default values of the five steps are SANE, unlike last revision
May 18 18:37:55 <qgil> and 5 steps should make happy most of us
May 18 18:38:04 <qgil> for the rest is ok if there is AB  :)
May 18 18:38:16 <andrewfblack> you guys want mobile version dark or light colors?
May 18 18:38:27 <rm_you> though I would still push for the ability to set the steps somehow, even if it HAS to be in a console
May 18 18:38:38 <RST38h> qgil: I wonder if it is possible to do automatic brightness control that responds to everyone's expectations...
May 18 18:38:45 <qgil> rm_you: apart from the lowest brightness being too bright... what else was wrong in your opinion?
May 18 18:38:59 <rm_you> qgil: the light sensor "brightnes scheduler" system may have shown some promise
May 18 18:39:03 <rm_you> ah, not much
May 18 18:39:04 <RST38h> andrew: the old one was light
May 18 18:39:06 <qgil> RST38h: I think this is what the N810 does, except the lowest level
May 18 18:39:10 <rm_you> besides the space issues I mentioned
May 18 18:39:20 <andrewfblack> RST38h: is that what you guys want now?
May 18 18:39:23 * lcuk likes current abl
May 18 18:39:29 <RST38h> andrew: dark is also fine but do use more color, almost Teletext style
May 18 18:39:51 <rm_you> lcuk: I haven't really seen anyone who doesn't :P lol
May 18 18:39:56 <qgil> andrewfblack: I actually was quite happy with the boring grey un-branded Mobile there was before
May 18 18:39:58 <RST38h> andrew: mostly because the stuff is all very small and using bright colors makes it stand out
May 18 18:40:07 <lcuk> heh rm_you you are right there :)
May 18 18:40:15 <RST38h> qgil: not the more colorful version though?
May 18 18:40:22 <lcuk> does its job without gettin in the way
May 18 18:40:29 <qgil> RST38h: I found it confusing
May 18 18:40:37 <andrewfblack> qgil: well do you want me to work on a new mobile or do you want to try and get reggie to bring old one back?
May 18 18:40:53 <RST38h> qgil: weird, I found the grey one bland but the bright one was quite ok
May 18 18:41:03 <qgil> andrewfblack: I don't want anybody to work on themes actually  ;)
May 18 18:41:13 <andrewfblack> why not?
May 18 18:41:19 <lcuk> send him a phone and he will stop
May 18 18:41:28 <lcuk> :D
May 18 18:41:30 <andrewfblack> lcuk: lol
May 18 18:41:33 <RST38h> andrew: bringing old ones back makes sense, if Reggie can do it with relative ease of course
May 18 18:41:49 <andrewfblack> I know qgil has an old nokia phone somewhere just lying around
May 18 18:41:52 <qgil> andrewfblack: so much energy.... Most users of most websites eat what they get and don't complain - even in mobile devices
May 18 18:42:15 <rm_you> I need a new phone really badly :P was thinking about poking someone from Nokia to bring one to Copenhagen for me, lol :P
May 18 18:42:31 <lcuk> people do what they are good at and what makes them feel fulfilled :)
May 18 18:42:32 <qgil> andrewfblack: I do, of course - but I'm not supposed to give them away
May 18 18:42:36 <RST38h> qgil: sorry but I really really can't eat the maemo branded itt theme :(
May 18 18:42:40 <andrewfblack> qgil: thats true but I have given up on my maemo theme designing and I'm not good for any other developing but web so this is about my only use anymore
May 18 18:42:52 <RST38h> qgil: Classic one if fine though so I am not complaining :)
May 18 18:42:57 <RST38h> s/if/is
May 18 18:43:03 <qgil> RST38h: sure, but now there are... how many? 5 themes? I think it's enough to make happy everybody
May 18 18:43:08 <andrewfblack> qgil: you know I wont tell lol
May 18 18:43:22 <RST38h> qgil: if old mobile ones are brought up I will be completely happy :)
May 18 18:43:53 <RST38h> qgil: currently using monimalistic on the mobile but it is a bit heavy
May 18 18:44:31 <qgil> RST38h: this is why I think he could keeping stripping it down instead of going for another theme
May 18 18:44:34 <lcuk> rm_you, the toilets in copenhagn have anti-adam flooring
May 18 18:44:40 <rm_you> lol
May 18 18:44:57 <rm_you> I'm not going to try to go 1-1 with a German this time :P
May 18 18:44:58 <andrewfblack> qgil: I just ramped it because that is what other people were asking for
May 18 18:45:00 <rm_you> so I should be fine :P
May 18 18:45:06 <lcuk> thats a point, can we sit down in mcdonalnds cph?
May 18 18:45:19 <lcuk> mcdonalds even
May 18 18:45:20 <qgil> andrewfblack: yes, I know people ask a lot of things  ;)
May 18 18:45:24 * lcuk still cant type 
May 18 18:45:34 <rm_you> that would be useful, i suppose
May 18 18:45:44 <rm_you> Were there no chairs in Mcdonalds berlin?
May 18 18:45:45 <lcuk> save u sliding down the wall
May 18 18:45:51 <lcuk> no
May 18 18:45:52 <rm_you> I honestly don't remember that clearly :P
May 18 18:45:59 <RST38h> oh
May 18 18:46:03 <lcuk> u sorta slouched up against the wall lol
May 18 18:46:05 <lcuk> you were hammered
May 18 18:46:08 <rm_you> heh
May 18 18:46:22 <rm_you> yeah... trying to keep up with a german was NOT a good idea ^_^
May 18 18:46:34 <rm_you> jott can pack 'em away
May 18 18:46:44 * rm_you misses jott
May 18 18:46:46 <lcuk> heh
May 18 18:47:02 <lcuk> :( yeah
May 18 18:47:11 <qgil> rm_you: lemme finish that "bright" discussion: we will do our best to define the right 5 steps
May 18 18:47:17 <rm_you> qgil: alright
May 18 18:47:58 <rm_you> qgil: I heard some stuff from GA, not sure 100% what he was talking about, but... essentially, are you guys thinking that AB is superfluous in Fremantle?
May 18 18:47:58 <lcuk> qgil, would there be a way to put somewhere a "minimum possible please" tickbox
May 18 18:48:04 <qgil> andrewfblack: and to conclude with the minimal/mobile discussion
May 18 18:48:17 <qgil> what about a poll?
May 18 18:48:19 <lcuk> ahhhh
May 18 18:48:40 <qgil> asking the Minimal users (and only those) if they would keep it like that or go for a more mobile-friendly version
May 18 18:48:49 <qgil> so you know if you are doing useful work, and in what direction
May 18 18:49:14 <rm_you> johnx linked me this yesterday: http://travel.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/travel/17surfacing.html?emc=eta1
May 18 18:49:21 <qgil> most of the recent opinions about the Minimalistic came from people that found that theme being the only salvation from the maemo.org "orange & not-dark" theme
May 18 18:49:35 <qgil> but I bet most of these are happy now with the dark & Classic variations
May 18 18:49:53 <andrewfblack> I based alot of my redue on comments from when minimalist first came out last year as well
May 18 18:49:56 <lcuk> rm_you, that first senstence reminds me of berlin :)
May 18 18:49:56 <qgil> my suspicion is that most of the current true Minimalistic users really appreciate minimalism (like me)... in a mobile device
May 18 18:50:12 <qgil> at home with the laptop I'm happy with the default and e.g. it's very useful right column
May 18 18:50:32 * lcuk loves the spy
May 18 18:50:41 <qgil> andrewfblack: last year minimalistic was useful to get rid of that heavy weight N810 image
May 18 18:50:59 <qgil> and mobile was around for the mobile users
May 18 18:50:59 <qgil> now the situation is different
May 18 18:51:23 <qgil> "rm_you: qgil: I heard some stuff from GA, not sure 100% what he was talking about, but... essentially, are you guys thinking that AB is superfluous in Fremantle?"
May 18 18:51:40 <qgil> "you guys" didn't say anything, it was me in a chat like this
May 18 18:52:03 <rm_you> right
May 18 18:52:12 <qgil> and I only told him the same than I said to you: rotation support is there for the apps willing to use it (not for the whole thing, so it might make sense for you to keep implementing)
May 18 18:52:23 <rm_you> sorry, what I meant by "you guys" was not you and GA, but like... you and the nokia people
May 18 18:52:35 <qgil> although it will be funny to see how the apps allowing automatic rotation will deal with a rotated desktop...
May 18 18:52:59 <rm_you> lol
May 18 18:53:01 <qgil> rm_you: this is what I'm saying "the Nokia people" has no opinion about AB
May 18 18:53:20 <rm_you> does the light team know it exists? :P
May 18 18:53:31 <qgil> saving status bar icons is something that also changes in Fremantle
May 18 18:54:04 <rm_you> alright, understood. sometimes it is hard to tell what is from you directly and what is being passed on, as you are basically the only interface we see with internal stuff
May 18 18:54:04 <qgil> and then the light... it was just at the end of last week that the "bright" people told me that 0-100% slider with light sensor was very difficult to calibrate
May 18 18:54:38 <qgil> rm_you: of course many people know it exists but they (rightly) don't think is any of their business to tell you whether the app is useful, useless or something in between
May 18 18:55:06 <rm_you> hey, if i'm wasting my time going in one direction when I should be going in another, i'd like to hear it :)
May 18 18:55:30 <qgil> this is why I came here to discuss to the AB developers  :)
May 18 18:55:50 <rm_you> like, I think the future of AB at this point may be more suited as part of an Open suite of applets for Mer and other alternative OS's
May 18 18:56:04 <qgil> rm_you: that too
May 18 18:56:05 <rm_you> than to move forward as part of the ITOS system
May 18 18:56:59 <rm_you> of course if the new brightness system was Open, my energies might be better spent somewhere else altogether
May 18 18:57:33 <qgil> I know
May 18 18:58:07 <rm_you> qgil: alright, well, good to hear from you!
May 18 18:58:18 <rm_you> thanks for the info / opinions
May 18 18:58:50 <rm_you> i'll be re-evaluating the direction I take with AB
May 18 18:59:19 <qgil> thanks for your work rm_you
May 18 18:59:39 <rm_you> :)
May 18 19:00:06 <rm_you> alright, off to run errands for a bit
May 18 19:01:25 <andrewfblack> qgil: well if we can figure out what the community wants or what who ever wants, I will do it, but it kinda sounds like we should just trash my minimalist theme and go with a prefab mobile theme
May 18 19:04:19 <qgil> andrewfblack: do you really think so? I'm very happy with it!
May 18 19:04:51 <qgil> this is why I think you should ask opinions from the regular users of your theme
May 18 19:05:19 <toggles_w> andrewfblack: ekiga.net to work?
May 18 19:05:30 <andrewfblack> qgil: it seems like you would have been happier with old minimalist since it had less features
May 18 19:06:12 <andrewfblack> toggles_w: what?
May 18 19:06:16 <Stskeeps> rm_you: if you can sit down or not depends on the mcd :P most have seating places
May 18 19:06:18 <Myrtti> ekiga.net works if you connect directly to zee Interhwebs not being behind NAT
May 18 19:06:25 <toggles_w> 14:01 < andrewfblack> qgil: well if we can figure out what the community wants
May 18 19:06:29 <Myrtti> or have portforwarding
May 18 19:06:31 <toggles_w> i want ekiga to work ;-)
May 18 19:07:49 <andrewfblack> I will put a poll up on t.m.o and see what people want, I'm sure we can't make everyone happy, we will just have to try and make the most happy I guess
May 18 19:08:29 <qgil> andrewfblack: indeed, and I pointed out that already in the prvious discussion, but that was in the -we want dark theme- discussion, when you got some "opportunistic" users just because you happened to have a dark background
May 18 19:09:16 <qgil> andrewfblack: or don't make a poll  :)
May 18 19:09:34 <qgil> andrewfblack: just listen to any suggestion about removing things that doesn't get a frontal opposition
May 18 19:09:35 <lcuk> if this were 3 weeks ago we could make a poll asking if you should make a poll :D
May 18 19:10:10 <qgil> I can already use the minimalistic in this E71
May 18 19:10:40 <qgil> andrewfblack: I have commented the only things in that thread, that make me stil use the 75% zoom
May 18 19:10:43 <qgil> but you're quite there
May 18 19:10:58 <andrewfblack> I'm happy removing any thing people want removed I just get alot of back and forth from the community on what should stay and what should go
May 18 19:11:04 <andrewfblack> qgil: what part was that?
May 18 19:11:32 <andrewfblack> the menu?
May 18 19:11:37 <qgil> andrewfblack: you just answerd to it  :)
May 18 19:12:21 <andrewfblack> how would you like the menu done to make it work better for phones
May 18 19:12:50 <qgil> I see your answer now and the couple of Thanks!
May 18 19:13:17 <qgil> andrewfblack: just forget what I said and keep it like that  :)
May 18 19:13:28 <qgil> otherwise indeed is going to be insane for you
May 18 19:13:49 <qgil> just one thing can make the page fluid on a mobile device, I think:
May 18 19:14:12 <qgil> "There is something forcing a horizontal scroll. I believe is the header of posts, specifically the "Posts: 513 Thanks!: 54 Thanked 159 Times in 90 Posts". Do we really need this in the Minimalistic theme? If you are into minimalism and simplicity those details are secondary to you."
May 18 19:14:34 <qgil> "specifically the "Posts: 513 Thanks!: 54 Thanked 159 Times in 90 Posts". Do we really need this in the Minimalistic theme?"
May 18 19:15:16 <qgil> andrewfblack: this string seems to be fixed so it pushes the page wider
May 18 19:16:01 <andrewfblack> qgil: I will take it out next update then
May 18 19:16:55 <qgil> then the "Bugs" and "Viaspy" links are so needed that people would complain if you take them out?
May 18 19:17:28 <qgil> andrewfblack: probably saying "Posts: 704 | Thanked: 1,381 times" like the default theme is enough
May 18 19:17:55 <qgil> I think that's all to make it 'mobile'
May 18 19:18:06 <andrewfblack> bugs I'm sure it wont and Viaspy I will move user cp with rest of links
May 18 19:20:37 <andrewfblack> qgil: it might help if reggie would give you access to sandbox so you can make sure those are the problems keeping it wide after I fix them
May 18 19:24:17 <qgil> andrewfblack: it's been a while since the last time I had to work with web source code and I probably don't understand a thing nowadays
May 18 19:25:02 <andrewfblack> qgil: I mean just the front end of out testing site so you can see what the theme will look like before me upload it to t.m.o
May 18 19:26:43 <kpel> hi guys
May 18 19:35:19 <qgil> andrewfblack: at the end it doesn't matter - until now I had used the themes that were available without complaining about anything  ;)
May 18 19:36:49 <andrewfblack> qgil: well it should be that way, this is the community site and everyone should get to put there point in, this theme is the only thing keeping me part of the community right now so its more your guys then it is mine
May 18 19:38:55 <RST38x> yahooo! 64MB SDRAM works!
May 18 19:47:55 <kpel> are there any plans to support the ovi.com services in the official software packages?
May 18 19:48:31 <kpel> you know, applets for ovi maps, contacts, etc. like the gmail checker we currently have.
May 18 19:48:43 <RST38x> heh, a trick question :)
May 18 19:48:51 <kpel> ?
May 18 19:49:07 <kpel> is it too general?
May 18 19:49:29 <RST38x> kpel: Answering it either way will basically reveal more about the upcoming tablet than Nokia would like to reveal, as far as I know :)
May 18 19:49:56 <kpel> in that case I withdraw the question :)
May 18 19:50:24 <RST38x> kpel: Let me find a mildly related itt post though...
May 18 19:51:45 <kpel> RST38x: ok
May 18 19:52:30 <RST38x> kpel: Not really a large enough post to give a link, but GeneralAntilles says that Nokia has got some plans for XUL
May 18 19:52:41 <RST38x> kpel: This indirectly implies the widgets
May 18 19:53:12 <kpel> ah, got you. Thanks ;)
May 18 19:53:29 * kpel waits for the new tablet
May 18 19:59:49 <ShadowJK> I would want the light sensor to adjust between 10 and 127. total darkness: 10. dusk outside, tablet indoors: 25. cloudy day, tablet indoors: 35. Sunny morning, tablet indoors: 60. sunny day, outside: 127
May 18 20:00:32 <ShadowJK> but it's hard to get right, i find myself moving tablet if light level is automagically adjusted when im reading...
May 18 20:00:55 <lcuk> i would rather have control, having a computer trying to work out whats right invariably leads to frustration
May 18 20:01:10 <lcuk> i just leave it on one setting unless its wrong
May 18 20:02:14 <ShadowJK> bonus for smoothly reducing brightness when in dark room and viewing a bright page
May 18 20:02:29 <ShadowJK> bonus for increasing brightness when viewing a dark xterm
May 18 20:07:32 <ShadowJK> yeah i just manually change it
May 18 20:08:03 <ShadowJK> but sometimes it would be nice to not get blinding deathstar right after waking up in drak room
May 18 20:08:49 <ShadowJK> re themes. minimalistic is great, for desktop, makes it respond much snappier than the regular theme :-)
May 18 20:10:02 <ShadowJK> now we should conspire to trick someone to make a "full function" mobile version with 0k js and 0k external .css
May 18 20:10:33 <ShadowJK> that should end up working nicely on the tablet
May 18 20:12:17 <mmorais> hi, how can I install maemo-sdk on ubuntu jaunty?
May 18 20:12:26 <mmorais> it is possible?
May 18 20:13:03 <andrewfblack> RST38x: take a look at what this site says about minimalist site <a href="http://www.linkvendor.com/seo-tools/site-analysis/website-speed-test,46.html" title="LinkVendor: Website Speed Test">Website Speed Test</a>
May 18 20:13:07 <ShadowJK> it's be interesting to make a theme restricted completely to a subset of html2, most browsers should be fast at that by now :)
May 18 20:13:19 <andrewfblack> opps didn't mean to copy the entire thing lol
May 18 20:14:08 * RST38x is writing a reply to benny1967 who just went completley paranoid over that stupid gay parade
May 18 20:14:45 <andrewfblack> ShadowJK: you want to trick me into making it?
May 18 20:14:55 <andrewfblack> ShadowJK: I'll tell you how to do it lol
May 18 20:16:10 <andrewfblack> btw 0k external .css would be a nightmare to write.
May 18 20:16:58 <ShadowJK> oh I was thinking about what the minimal subset you'd need
May 18 20:17:03 <ShadowJK> like, ideally
May 18 20:17:48 <ShadowJK> <p> and <a href>... do you need more? :P
May 18 20:18:15 <ShadowJK> <hr> between posts!
May 18 20:19:11 <ShadowJK> at that point, it should be trivial to strip to markup completely and scrape it into a mailspool for viewing in mutt
May 18 20:19:18 <ShadowJK> :D
May 18 20:20:42 <ShadowJK> It's a pity multi-interface forum software died out :(
May 18 20:20:45 <bubibubibubi> http://yahoumba.mybrute.com irrational flash stuiff
May 18 20:20:46 <bubibubibubi> http://yahoumba.mybrute.com irrational flash stuiff
May 18 20:21:30 <RST38x> andrew: Says the same thing as the site I used
May 18 20:21:35 <ShadowJK> there used to be several with http, mail and nntp interfaces to the same contents :)
May 18 20:21:39 <RST38x> andrew: BUT actually lists JS scripts
May 18 20:22:05 <Myrtti> ShadowJK: posts should be in divs, not separated by <hr />'s ;-)
May 18 20:22:42 <ShadowJK> well ok :)
May 18 20:22:53 <RST38x> andrew: I wonder what yahoo-dom-event is...
May 18 20:23:04 <RST38x> vbulletin_menu is still there
May 18 20:23:56 <RST38x> Estimated times are wrong: you get 3.66s for UMTS and 0.53s for the modem
May 18 20:24:21 <RST38x> The real time over GPRS is more like 10-30 seconds
May 18 20:27:27 <ShadowJK> umts != gprs
May 18 20:27:36 <RST38x> UMTS should be faster, right?
May 18 20:27:40 <ShadowJK> yes
May 18 20:27:51 <RST38x> UMTS should be faster than normal modem right?
May 18 20:29:04 <ShadowJK> I would have guessed "average reallife" latency of gprs to be 5-10 times worse than umts
May 18 20:30:01 <RST38x> Whatever it is, ITT loads in 10-30 seconds for me over GPRS, using minimalist scheme
May 18 20:30:17 <RST38x> Which it about three times longer than it should, content-wise
May 18 20:30:30 <ShadowJK> it's the number of requests
May 18 20:30:56 <ShadowJK> you've got an average latency when idle of about 1 to 1.5 seconds
May 18 20:31:29 <ShadowJK> can get as "good" as .3 secs if connection is loaded exactly the right amount :)
May 18 20:31:49 <ShadowJK> but quickly 5 second latencies during moderate load
May 18 20:32:19 <ShadowJK> absolute worst case is much worse :)
May 18 20:36:54 <RST38x> ehhh
May 18 20:36:56 <RST38x> Can't win
May 18 20:37:03 <ShadowJK> GAN8001: about your expired cert issues... anyone suggested the obvious yet? turn off auto-fetch time from network, manually set clock to 2007 or something
May 18 20:37:42 <ShadowJK> rst38x: opera mini wins because it makes just one request :)
May 18 20:39:14 <ShadowJK> so typical "not ideal case" delay is something like 1.5 sec + .3*2 before data comes in, and then it all comes at once
May 18 20:39:54 <ShadowJK> less on subsequent pages because it doesn't close connection to opera's server
May 18 20:40:42 <ShadowJK> this is why I mentioned self-contained html, the number of objects matter much more than datasize, atleast for speed
May 18 20:41:30 <ShadowJK> it's ahother question whether user would want to tradeoff speed for less bytes transfered :)
May 18 20:41:42 <ShadowJK> (if they get metered by the byte)
May 18 20:42:30 <luke-jr> what idiot put the N810's mic in the BOTTOM?
May 18 20:43:09 <ShadowJK> They had to give the n-gage hw designers a new home
May 18 20:44:20 <ShadowJK> in practice it works though? or atleast other people on skype claimed they had no problem hearing me... or the hockey game on the tv nextroom..heh
May 18 20:47:56 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: as a speakerphone to one person maybe
May 18 20:48:03 <luke-jr> not as a stealth conversation recorder
May 18 20:48:10 <luke-jr> or speakerphone to a group around a central point
May 18 20:49:00 <luke-jr> I now have to compromise: recording, or notes?
May 18 20:49:13 <luke-jr> I will have to choose recording and hope I can make out well enough to add notes later
May 18 20:52:47 <ShadowJK> how's the bundled external mic?
May 18 20:57:47 <n6pfk> Is this the right channel for the N810?
May 18 20:58:14 <ShadowJK> yep
May 18 22:08:35 <luke-jr> how to play .ilbc?
May 18 22:09:15 <cyrus_mc> Trying to right a udev rule for my N810. Using the same device and same rule that i use on my desktoip, does not work on maemo. I added a file 010_local.rules in /etc/udev/rules.d. Do I need to run some command to update a master rules file or does it read from there?
May 18 22:11:05 <LiraNuna> oh wow, maemo on the beagleboard?
May 18 22:12:58 <luke-jr> cyrus_mc: not sure Maemo uses udev at all
May 18 22:13:38 <cyrus_mc> luke-jr - pretty sure it does as the udev daemon is running
May 18 22:13:44 <luke-jr> hum
May 18 22:13:50 <luke-jr> I wouldn't know, don't use Maemo
May 18 22:13:52 <zakkm> you turn off udev, maemo wont boot
May 18 22:18:48 <luke-jr> so is it possible to play .ilbc?
May 18 22:24:34 * FireFox 's browser crashes >:(
May 18 22:24:39 <FireFox> heh, ironic lol XD
May 18 22:25:37 * FireFox kills modest
May 18 22:28:21 <FireFox> hi!
May 18 22:28:28 * FireFox is b-man
May 18 22:28:47 <xnt14> helloworld! haven't been on irc for a long time
May 18 22:28:55 <FireFox> indeed
May 18 22:28:59 <xnt14> :)
May 18 22:29:30 <FireFox> what have you been up to? :)
May 18 22:29:49 <xnt14> look to the left of your irc windows :P
May 18 22:30:24 * FireFox has too many tabs open lol
May 18 22:30:30 <xnt14> lol
May 18 22:42:18 <FireFox> FoxFire: lol
May 18 22:42:32 <FireFox16> lol
May 18 22:42:38 <FireFox> re: FureFox16: LOL XD
May 18 22:42:48 <FireFox> *FireFox16
May 18 22:43:00 <FireFox16> LOL
May 18 22:43:28 <FireFox> OMGLOLROFL!!! OMGLOLROFL!!! OMGLOLROFL!!!
May 18 22:43:46 <FireFox> 0.o
May 18 22:43:55 <b-man16> LFORLOLGMO! LFORLOLGMO! LFORLOLGMO!
May 18 22:43:57 <b-man16> xD
May 18 22:44:01 <b-man16> o.0
May 18 22:44:06 <FireFox> XD
May 18 22:44:13 <b-man16> xD
May 18 22:44:26 <b-man16> xD
May 18 22:44:27 <FireFox> @everyone - i'm the real b-man16 lol
May 18 22:44:41 <FireFox> XD
May 18 22:44:57 <xnt14> XD
May 18 22:45:02 <b-man16> @everyone - im the real xnt14 lol
May 18 22:45:03 <b-man16> xD
May 18 22:45:17 <b-man16> Identity crisis lol
May 18 22:45:24 <xnt14> lcuk: XD
May 18 22:45:29 <FireFox> who?
May 18 22:45:33 <b-man16> Firefox/lcuk xD
May 18 22:45:36 <xnt14> yuo!
May 18 22:45:44 <xnt14> *you
May 18 22:45:53 <FireFox> how long does this last for
May 18 22:45:58 <b-man16> dunne
May 18 22:46:00 <b-man16> *dunno
May 18 22:46:03 * FireFox feels odd
May 18 22:46:11 <xnt14> as long as you want lol
May 18 22:46:13 <b-man16> this is fun xd
May 18 22:46:17 <lcuk> shouldnt
May 18 22:46:18 <b-man16> xD
May 18 22:46:21 <xnt14> yeahhh!!
May 18 22:46:22 <lcuk> cos firefox is passworded
May 18 22:46:28 <lcuk> i thought you had 10 seconds or something
May 18 22:46:53 * xnt14 is b-man btw lol
May 18 22:47:16 <xnt14> b-man16 is xnt14 lol
May 18 22:47:44 * b-man16 is b-man btw lol
May 18 22:47:47 <b-man16> lol
May 18 22:47:54 <xnt14> nooooooo!!!!!
May 18 22:47:58 <b-man16> lol
May 18 22:48:01 * lcuk gets back to code
May 18 22:48:25 * xnt14 is the _REAL_ b-man XD
May 18 22:48:32 * b-man16 gets back to coding his cms, but might hang here for  a while xD
May 18 22:48:40 <xnt14> XD
May 18 22:48:47 * b-man16 is the _REAL_ b-man XD
May 18 22:48:57 <xnt14> aaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
May 18 22:49:00 <b-man16> xDDD
May 18 22:49:39 <b-man16> lol
May 18 22:50:02 * xnt14 is the absolute [[[[[[[[[[[[REAL]]]]]]]]]]]] b-man XD
May 18 22:50:14 * b-man16  is the absolute [[[[[[[[[[[[REAL]]]]]]]]]]]] b-man XD
May 18 22:50:19 <xnt14> mememe!!!
May 18 22:50:26 <b-man16> mememe!!!
May 18 22:50:28 <b-man16> xD
May 18 22:50:40 <xnt14> stop that XD
May 18 22:50:51 * b-man16 is the canonical b-man
May 18 22:51:07 <b-man16> canonical = true
May 18 22:51:08 * xnt14 is the genetic b-man
May 18 22:51:10 <b-man16> xD
May 18 22:51:26 * b-man16  is the genetic b-man
May 18 22:51:36 <xnt14> ahhhhhh!!
May 18 22:51:40 * b-man16 's name is Brian
May 18 22:52:00 <xnt14> b-man16: what's my birthday
May 18 22:52:18 <Bobbe> how would anyone check the answer to that
May 18 22:52:22 <b-man16> xnt's b-day is jan 9th 1995
May 18 22:52:29 <Bobbe> ?
May 18 22:52:29 <b-man16> he told me
May 18 22:52:33 <b-man16> xD
May 18 22:52:38 <xnt14> exactly! - October, 11 1992
May 18 22:52:47 <xnt14> no!
May 18 22:52:52 <xnt14> 1992
May 18 22:52:57 <b-man16> thats my b-day
May 18 22:53:03 <xnt14> nooo!!!
May 18 22:53:03 <b-man16> I told you xD
May 18 22:53:09 <xnt14> ahhhh!!!
May 18 22:53:27 <luke-jr> http://dashjr.org/maps/wifi/
May 18 22:53:33 <xnt14> b-man16: what's my sister's age?
May 18 22:53:38 <derf> This channel is filled with children.
May 18 22:53:50 <b-man16> 15
May 18 22:53:55 <xnt14> 0.o
May 18 22:54:03 <b-man16> ops
May 18 22:54:06 <b-man16> kb slipped
May 18 22:54:09 <b-man16> 14
May 18 22:54:20 <xnt14> no!!! hahahahaha!!!
May 18 22:54:24 <xnt14> 15
May 18 22:54:36 <xnt14> as of April 31
May 18 22:54:49 <ds3> wonder if software license agreements are valid for minors.. Hmmm
May 18 22:54:52 <b-man16> xD
May 18 22:54:56 <ds3> ;)
May 18 22:54:58 <b-man16> ds3: dunno
May 18 22:55:01 <b-man16> xd
May 18 22:55:07 <derf> ds3: They could also be FBI agents.
May 18 22:55:09 <xnt14> b-man16: ha!
May 18 22:55:20 <derf> If this "sister" makes an appearance, we'll know which is which.
May 18 22:55:21 * xnt14 is the real b-man
May 18 22:55:31 * b-man16 is the real b-man
May 18 22:55:48 <b-man16> ok than
May 18 22:55:51 <b-man16> *then
May 18 22:55:59 <b-man16> whats my dad's name?
May 18 22:57:00 <ds3> derf: nothing wrong with considering hypothetical software/ip legal issues :D
May 18 22:57:11 * xnt14 needs to eat dinner - will continue after XD
May 18 22:57:18 <b-man16> XD
May 18 22:57:26 <b-man16> ok
May 18 22:57:36 <derf> ds3: The problem is, if they cannot consent to the license, they do not have any right to use the software at _all_.
May 18 22:59:06 <b-man16> derf: are you saying I can't legally use linux? xD
May 18 23:01:05 <derf> b-man16: Maybe if your mom says it's okay.
May 18 23:01:19 <b-man16> lol
May 18 23:01:43 <b-man16> so then I can't even own a nit?
May 18 23:01:50 <b-man16> or a computer
May 18 23:02:06 <b-man16> with windows/linux(eula/gpl)
May 18 23:02:10 <b-man16> or mac
May 18 23:03:03 <b-man16> without my parents permission
May 18 23:03:33 <derf> I'm pretty sure most of the EULAs are unenforcable anyway.
May 18 23:03:38 <derf> But the GPL is not.
May 18 23:05:02 <b-man16> so
May 18 23:06:54 * b-man16 would be stuck in windowsland if the government cared about software license agreements and minors :P
May 18 23:07:06 <b-man16> aand then
May 18 23:07:20 <derf> I'm not sure exactly how license agreements work with minors.
May 18 23:07:30 <b-man16> they come out with gpl v4 XD
May 18 23:07:37 <derf> I know for contracts, minors are allowed to make them, but are also allowed to void them at any time.
May 18 23:08:33 * b-man16 reads the log
May 18 23:09:00 <b-man16> FBI Agents LOL
May 18 23:09:09 <b-man16> <log>
May 18 23:09:16 <b-man16> <derf> ds3: They could also be FBI agents.
May 18 23:09:16 <b-man16> <xnt14> b-man16: ha!
May 18 23:09:16 <b-man16> <derf> If this "sister" makes an appearance, we'll know which is which.
May 18 23:09:20 <b-man16> </log
May 18 23:09:24 <b-man16> *>
May 18 23:12:25 <kpel> night
May 18 23:14:25 * b-man16 gets back to coding
May 18 23:17:56 <luke-jr> derf: wrong
May 18 23:18:21 <luke-jr> ds3: minors cannot contract
May 18 23:18:22 <luke-jr> BUT
May 18 23:18:33 <luke-jr> Copyright is about copying, not using ;)
May 18 23:18:38 <luke-jr> so minor simply cannot copy
May 18 23:19:06 <derf> luke-jr: That means they can't legally obtain the software in the first place.
May 18 23:19:19 <luke-jr> derf: why?
May 18 23:21:41 <luke-jr> derf: in case you're unaware, copying is done by the distributor, not the receiver
May 18 23:21:45 <xnt14> b-man16: i'm back
May 18 23:21:52 <luke-jr> that's why you can never lose a lawsuit if you only download
May 18 23:21:57 <b-man16> ok
May 18 23:22:47 * xnt14 is the real b-man XD
May 18 23:23:09 * b-man16 is the reald b-man XD
May 18 23:23:13 <b-man16> *real
May 18 23:23:28 <xnt14>     > /whois  ;)
May 18 23:23:34 <xnt14> lol
May 18 23:23:46 <b-man16> lol
May 18 23:24:16 <b-man16> ok brian, gtfo my nick
May 18 23:24:23 <xnt14> ok lol
May 18 23:24:30 <xnt[waiting]> ok
May 18 23:24:32 <luke-jr> kids
May 18 23:24:34 <b-man16> ok
May 18 23:24:48 <xnt14> luke-jr: xD
May 18 23:30:44 <luke-jr> Maemo Recorder sucks (aka, doesn't actually record anything)
May 18 23:33:12 <ds3> but EULAs govern usage not copying
May 18 23:36:08 <timeless_mbp> copyright generally covers copying :)
May 18 23:36:34 * GAN800 wonders how to fix the 5800 email client.
May 18 23:37:29 <GAN800> timeless_mbp, I have some time to poke at MXR tonight.
May 18 23:38:03 <GAN800> I'll probably try to get Bugzilla out of the way first, though.
May 18 23:38:38 <timeless_mbp> k
May 18 23:38:51 <timeless_mbp> i should sleep. i'm back in HEL so it's 2:30a
May 18 23:41:37 <rm_you> is there documentation somewhere for installing scratchbox2/maemo?
May 18 23:41:56 <rm_you> i only see stuff about sb apophis (scratchbox 1?)
May 18 23:44:52 <rm_you> Stskeeps: where is the documentation for whatever build system Mer uses?
May 18 23:44:57 <rm_you> need to set it up
May 18 23:46:18 <GAN800> wiki.maem.org
May 18 23:46:20 <rm_you> the wiki is showing stuff about the VM
May 18 23:46:30 <GAN800> Mer/Build or somesuch
May 18 23:46:43 <rm_you> but johnx was talking about some build environment that SuSe or something used
May 18 23:46:51 <rm_you> Open Build Environment?
May 18 23:46:58 <rm_you> i forgot the exact name, unfortunately
May 18 23:47:08 <GAN800> openSUSE Build Service. Mer docs for it are on the wiki.
May 18 23:47:25 <rm_you> bah
May 18 23:47:27 * rm_you looks more
May 18 23:49:08 <GAN800> rm_you, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build
May 18 23:49:31 <rm_you> yeah i found it, was looking at the dev page, didnt notice the link at first to the main article :P
May 18 23:50:03 <GAN800> rm_you, competence woo?
May 18 23:50:12 <rm_you> indeed >_<
May 18 23:51:55 <rm_you> ok well that failed
May 18 23:52:05 <rm_you> i guess i'll wait till johnx gets home from work
May 18 23:52:20 <rm_you> and apparently i'm not allowed to use scratchbox since i have 64bit now >_>
May 18 23:52:28 <rm_you> i guess i'll set up a 32bit chroot
May 18 23:53:49 <GAN800> usuk
May 18 23:54:03 <GAN800> That's why you can't use sb. :p
May 18 23:55:05 <rm_you> well sb2 INSTALLS
May 18 23:55:10 <rm_you> i guess maemo just doesn't support it? >_>
May 18 23:55:30 <rm_you> i mean, if it is IN THE REPOS for 64bit ubuntu, it probably does work...
May 18 23:55:45 <GAN800> Not at the moment.
May 18 23:55:54 <rm_you> >_>
May 19 00:02:10 <Macer> well
May 19 00:02:15 <chx> hi.
May 19 00:03:18 <chx> I am trying to understand the GPS situation. The N810 I ordered will come with Wayfinder. It does not route. Nevermind, I do not have a car anyways. But, is there a POI database? Is it possible to use Google Maps with the GPS? The smartphone version of Google Maps does that.
May 19 00:03:28 <chx> Googling does not help too much
May 19 00:05:37 <chx> most information is from 2007 which sounds a bit dated
May 19 00:05:52 <rm_you> chx: MaemoMapper
May 19 00:06:00 <rm_you> chx: uses googlemaps and google POIs
May 19 00:06:15 <rm_you> chx: also, i thought wayfinder did routes
May 19 00:06:34 <chx> rm_you: then whats the outrageous 3yr licence you need to buy for wayfinder?
May 19 00:06:44 <chx> rm_you: also what i need is the public transit routing in google maps
May 19 00:06:57 <chx> rm_you: works on my cellphone -- but i would prefer a bigger screen
May 19 00:07:09 <GAN800> Maemo Mapper
May 19 00:07:09 <rm_you> chx: MaemoMapper does google routing, not sure if it does the public transit ones tho
May 19 00:07:22 <chx>  http://www.google.com/mobile/default/maps.html
May 19 00:07:39 <chx> says Java
May 19 00:08:05 <rm_you> the three year license is for the ability to use wayfinder at all... and it includes routing capabilities as it is vector based, not image based like maemomapper
May 19 00:08:15 <chx> is there a Java VM?
May 19 00:08:16 <rm_you> but maemo mapper is free and uses google maps and POI and routing
May 19 00:08:35 <GAN800> wayfinder license is for routing
May 19 00:09:35 <lcuk> most days you travel on your normal route, and you can pick up monthly licenses as required for very little money
May 19 00:09:51 <lcuk> you only need the routing when you are going somewhere you dont know :)
May 19 00:10:14 <chx> uh huh
May 19 00:10:20 <chx> I live in Vancouver
May 19 00:10:21 <lcuk> the built in maps application is good :)
May 19 00:10:26 <chx> and I do not have a car
May 19 00:10:32 <chx> is that enough or should I detail?
May 19 00:11:18 <lcuk> :) i was trying to let you know its good and just because you have no car does not mean you dont occasionally need routing
May 19 00:11:33 <chx> I need public transit routing all the time
May 19 00:11:38 <chx> thats the problem
May 19 00:11:42 <chx> this place is vast
May 19 00:11:49 <lcuk> i had the same problem in berlin :)
May 19 00:12:00 <lcuk> i didnt know which train to catch to get me where
May 19 00:12:24 <lcuk> i ended up downloading a jpg map of the metro and using that
May 19 00:12:41 <chx> yeah but Vancouver is about four times as large as Berlin area-wise.
May 19 00:13:06 <lcuk> that wouldnt have been much of a problem :)
May 19 00:13:11 <rm_you> lolyeah i remember you tiled it in liqbase :P
May 19 00:13:27 <lcuk> yeah it was 10*10 zoomable
May 19 00:14:00 <lcuk> rm_you, ive got a map showing manchester nowadays :)
May 19 00:14:10 <chx> really the best would be if Google Maps mobile would simply run inside Jalimo
May 19 00:14:53 <chx> or, there is a Palm OS binary
May 19 00:14:58 <chx> I hear there is a Palm OS VM?
May 19 00:15:39 <chx> ooooooh
May 19 00:15:40 <chx> http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/
May 19 00:15:54 <chx> Garnet VM supports some of the most popular applications in the mobile market including, Google Mapsâ„¢,
May 19 00:16:13 * chx thinks he was not alone trying to run Google Maps on the N810 if that's the first app the company mentions.
May 19 00:16:28 <chx> yay
May 19 00:16:37 <chx> another problem down :)
May 19 00:17:15 <GAN800> Silly, silly Android
May 19 00:17:37 <Bobbe> didn't get that GAN800
May 19 00:18:06 <GAN800> Bobbe, general observation
May 19 00:18:17 <GAN800> Same with Tegra
May 19 00:20:43 <chx> Anyone here runs Garnet and has a BT receiver? Does it work now? Again, msot information found by Google is very dated
May 19 00:20:51 <chx> *BT GPS receiver
May 19 00:20:57 <rm_you> havent tried
May 19 01:06:52 <z4chh> Is there anything in /proc for battery info?
May 19 01:07:45 <kfx> /sys/power iirc
May 19 01:08:02 <kfx> no wait that's suspend stuff
May 19 01:55:31 <GAN8001> ShadowJK, yes, no effect.
May 19 02:12:17 <z4chh> wow
May 19 02:12:18 <z4chh> http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.asp?sku=206228943
May 19 02:12:28 <z4chh> get your $199 n810 :)
May 19 02:12:41 <tank-man> wow is when it is $100 :)
May 19 02:13:11 <z4chh> im wow'ed because i paid $220 for mine 2 weeks ago
May 19 02:39:49 <chx> z4chh: I bought it there last week
May 19 02:39:54 <chx> z4chh: today it shipped
May 19 02:39:59 <chx> z4chh: takes time to get here.
May 19 02:44:26 <labaudio> someone is familary whit startup application?
May 19 02:44:45 <labaudio> like maemosplash
May 19 02:57:17 <Bobbe> guys, I'm having some trouble adding the default repo
May 19 02:57:31 <Bobbe> (using diablo 47-3)
May 19 02:57:46 <Bobbe> Adding manually, the url is http://repository.maemo.org
May 19 02:57:51 <Bobbe> distro is to be left blank
May 19 02:57:59 <Bobbe> free / non-free
May 19 02:58:02 <Bobbe> right?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 19 02:59:57 2009