**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 03 02:59:57 2009
Jun 03 03:08:40 <skibur> do I use # to comment out deb links in .list?
Jun 03 03:08:48 <zakkm> yup
Jun 03 03:08:50 <zakkm> skibur: yup
Jun 03 03:08:54 <skibur> thanks
Jun 03 03:09:17 <skibur> making sure
Jun 03 03:18:05 <cmug> Does that Borg theme work in Fremantle too
Jun 03 03:18:49 <zakkm> probably not
Jun 03 03:21:34 <cmug> dman
Jun 03 06:05:46 <mib_hux90a> why there is no function pointer named gtk_calendar_realize in gtk class gtdcalendar.
Jun 03 06:07:15 <mib_hux90a> i find the api reference,but i can't find out
Jun 03 06:07:15 <mib_hux90a> it is a function pointer i should modify in my class.
Jun 03 06:07:31 <mib_hux90a> is there anybody who can help me?
Jun 03 06:10:46 <Proteous> everyone is alseeeeeppp
Jun 03 06:10:51 <Proteous> asleep even
Jun 03 06:11:00 <mib_hux90a> yeah
Jun 03 06:11:08 * Myrtti is having morning coffee
Jun 03 06:11:22 <Proteous> everyone is having morning cooffeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Jun 03 06:11:36 <Myrtti> Proteous: snap out of it
Jun 03 06:11:50 * Proteous is going to make coconut macarooooooonnnsssss
Jun 03 06:12:25 <Proteous> easiest cookie ever but still tasty
Jun 03 06:13:03 <Proteous> equal parts by weight of coconut and condensed milk, a little salt and a few beaten egg whites DONE
Jun 03 06:13:17 <Proteous> well, you have to cook them for a bit
Jun 03 06:13:42 <Proteous> and maybe melt some chocolate and dip them if you want to go the extra mile
Jun 03 06:13:47 <Proteous> which I do
Jun 03 06:13:54 <Proteous> cause that's just how I roll
Jun 03 06:14:35 <Proteous> I roll, you know, the extra mile, cause, yeah, I shut my engine off to conserver gas, and well, it's downhill anyway....
Jun 03 06:14:59 <Proteous> I also seem to add extra RRRRs to things randomly
Jun 03 06:15:19 <Proteous> so watch out for that
Jun 03 06:15:26 <Proteous> hide your children
Jun 03 06:15:33 <Proteous> extra RRRs on the prowl
Jun 03 06:15:37 <jaska> arr
Jun 03 06:15:43 <Proteous> tiver me shimbers
Jun 03 06:15:49 <RXrenesis8> the prrrowl
Jun 03 06:15:54 <Proteous> heh
Jun 03 06:18:41 <Macer> hm
Jun 03 06:20:02 <mib_hux90a> why there is no function pointer named gtk_calendar_realize in gtk class gtdcalendar
Jun 03 06:20:47 <inz> why would there be?
Jun 03 06:21:21 <mib_hux90a> i think the class shoud contain it,and i can modify and implement different function.
Jun 03 06:22:04 <inz> The class has realize method, for sure, but you don't need to know the function name to override it
Jun 03 06:24:32 <mib_hux90a> will it show in class
Jun 03 06:27:34 <inz> What do you want to do?
Jun 03 06:28:04 <mib_hux90a> i can't find g_object_class discription in gtk+ api reference.who can help me find?
Jun 03 06:28:22 <mib_hux90a> i want to realize a method
Jun 03 06:28:37 <inz> It's in GLib API reference
Jun 03 06:28:44 <inz> What do you mean realize a method?
Jun 03 06:29:27 <mib_hux90a> i want to modify parent class function and implement my function
Jun 03 06:29:58 <mib_hux90a> the parent class should provide the function pointer,but i can't find it
Jun 03 06:30:17 <inz> So you want to override a method and call the parent implementation from yours?
Jun 03 06:30:29 <mib_hux90a> yeah
Jun 03 06:30:48 <mib_hux90a> i find in api reference,but i can't find
Jun 03 06:31:27 <mib_hux90a> i am reading code sample about input-method-plugins
Jun 03 06:32:41 <mib_hux90a> for example,i should modify  gwidgetclass function pointer named realize
Jun 03 06:33:17 <mib_hux90a> can you find it in gtk+ api reference 5.0
Jun 03 06:34:14 <mib_hux90a> himExample_vkb_class_init (HimExampleVKBClass *klass)
Jun 03 06:34:17 <thux> morning
Jun 03 06:34:20 <inz> Normally in GObjects you store pointer to the parent class in a static global in your class_init (you can get the parent class with g_type_class_peek_parent();
Jun 03 06:34:48 <mib_hux90a> yeah.
Jun 03 06:35:14 <inz> And then you do GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize(self); in your implementation of realize
Jun 03 06:35:37 <mib_hux90a> yeah
Jun 03 06:36:03 <inz> Where would you need gtk_calendar_realize here?
Jun 03 06:36:36 <mib_hux90a> that is just a example
Jun 03 06:37:45 <mib_hux90a> what i want to find is the realize function pointer in GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize(self)
Jun 03 06:38:08 <mib_hux90a> i want to the location of realize pointer
Jun 03 06:38:32 <mib_hux90a> where is the location of realize pointer?
Jun 03 06:39:00 <inz> Why do you need it?
Jun 03 06:39:36 <inz> To function pointer is GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize;
Jun 03 06:39:38 <mib_hux90a> i want to realize my own function
Jun 03 06:39:59 <inz> You don't need the function pointer for that
Jun 03 06:40:12 <mib_hux90a> why?
Jun 03 06:40:18 <inz> Why would you?
Jun 03 06:40:43 <mib_hux90a> why i don't need it ?
Jun 03 06:41:12 <mib_hux90a> i think the api should provide me with it
Jun 03 06:41:40 <mib_hux90a> widget_class->realize       = realize_cb
Jun 03 06:41:50 <mib_hux90a> you see this line
Jun 03 06:42:03 <inz> Yes
Jun 03 06:42:12 <mib_hux90a> the realize_cb is my own function name
Jun 03 06:42:24 <inz> True
Jun 03 06:42:50 <mib_hux90a> it can realize my function,but i want to know the location of realize
Jun 03 06:43:04 <inz> What?
Jun 03 06:43:09 <inz> Erm, why?
Jun 03 06:43:49 <mib_hux90a> the realize should be the parent function,is it right?
Jun 03 06:44:06 <mib_hux90a> the parent class function.
Jun 03 06:44:16 <inz> If you don't want to implement your own realize, just remove the line
Jun 03 06:44:29 <mib_hux90a> yeah
Jun 03 06:44:45 <inz> And only the parent gets called
Jun 03 06:45:14 <mib_hux90a> i think this is just one of the interface function
Jun 03 06:45:52 <mib_hux90a> but i should know where i can see the discription about it ?
Jun 03 06:47:55 <mib_hux90a> it is a member of gwidget class,is it right?
Jun 03 06:48:01 <inz> GtkWdget, yes
Jun 03 06:48:34 <inz> The documentation for gtk_widget_realize() should tell what the method is supposed to do
Jun 03 06:49:59 <mib_hux90a> yeah
Jun 03 06:51:33 <mib_hux90a> but it is not a pointer
Jun 03 06:52:03 <mib_hux90a> how i should modify it and make it point to my function name?
Jun 03 06:53:12 <inz> You do the widget_class->realize = my_realize; thing you mentioned earlier
Jun 03 06:53:14 <mib_hux90a> is there another realize method for gtdwidget which is a pointer?
Jun 03 06:53:47 <mib_hux90a> yeah,i just can't understand this line clearly
Jun 03 06:54:21 <mib_hux90a> where is the realize for gtkwidget class
Jun 03 06:54:35 <inz> You don't need that either
Jun 03 06:54:57 <inz> You just set your own realize and call the parent class's realize from your own implementation
Jun 03 06:56:38 <mib_hux90a> where is g_object_class type conversion?
Jun 03 06:56:39 <inz> i.e. your realize would look something like this: void my_realize(GtkWidget *widget) { GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize(widget); /* do your stuff here */ }
Jun 03 06:57:04 <mib_hux90a> yeah
Jun 03 06:57:52 <inz> mib, normally the headers provide the convenience macros for casting the classes
Jun 03 06:58:05 <inz> But that's just for type safety, technically you could just cast them
Jun 03 06:58:08 <mib_hux90a> where is the GTK_WIDGET_CLASS discription?
Jun 03 06:58:43 <mib_hux90a> yeah ,i just can't find macros GTK_WIDGET_CLASS
Jun 03 06:58:59 <mib_hux90a> In api reference
Jun 03 06:59:13 <inz> Yeah, they're not documented
Jun 03 06:59:21 <inz> You just assume it's there
Jun 03 07:01:03 <mib_hux90a> thanks,inz and i want to find more useful parent_class funtion like realize
Jun 03 07:01:19 <mib_hux90a> how to find the discription relative to it ?
Jun 03 07:01:39 <inz> the best way to see the list of methods is to check the header
Jun 03 07:02:11 <inz> The signal list for the class also works
Jun 03 07:02:33 <mib_hux90a> is there no the method like realize in the api reference.
Jun 03 07:04:05 <mib_hux90a> http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/gtk/GtkWidget.html#GtkWidget-struct
Jun 03 07:04:35 <mib_hux90a> In this page,i can't find the realize's discription.
Jun 03 07:04:49 <inz> mib, see gtk_widget_realize
Jun 03 07:04:51 <mib_hux90a> this is api reference.
Jun 03 07:04:57 <inz> yes, and it's bad
Jun 03 07:05:02 <inz> mostly
Jun 03 07:05:52 <mib_hux90a> gtk_widget_realize is the same as the 'realize' GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(parent_class)->realize(widget);
Jun 03 07:06:24 <mib_hux90a> the twe realize means the same function
Jun 03 07:06:52 <inz> Well, yeah
Jun 03 07:06:55 <mib_hux90a> i am still not clear
Jun 03 07:07:29 <inz> gtk_widget_realize(widget) will essentially do GTK_WIDGET_CLASS(G_OBJET_GET_CLASS(widget))->realize(widget);
Jun 03 07:09:45 <mib_hux90a> you mean gtk_widget_realize(widget) just is a part of the later
Jun 03 07:10:06 <inz> No, gtk_widget_realize will call the latter
Jun 03 07:11:23 <inz> As C does not have class-paradigm, there's no way to conveniently call the method, so a convenience function is provided
Jun 03 07:11:43 <Stskeeps> ok, n810 gps isn't 100% crap but it could be better :P
Jun 03 07:11:46 <inz> But the convenience method usually describes what the real method does
Jun 03 07:11:59 <inz> Sts, five-nines?
Jun 03 07:12:25 <Stskeeps> more like it loses fix at odd times
Jun 03 07:12:31 <Stskeeps> i'm fairly happy with it though
Jun 03 07:12:46 <mib_hux90a> thanks inz. for giving me so much help
Jun 03 07:15:42 <Macer> i'm still watching true blood
Jun 03 07:26:03 <mib_hux90a> widget_class->expose_event  = expose_cb; in this line, where is the expose event protype in gtk+ api reference docment
Jun 03 07:27:24 <inz> mib, http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/gtk/GtkWidget.html#GtkWidget-expose-event
Jun 03 07:28:48 <mib_hux90a> inz,thanks.i found it
Jun 03 07:33:03 <mavhc> has there been any conclusion about why the gps isn't that good? software, hardware?
Jun 03 07:33:26 <Stskeeps_> well, agps helps
Jun 03 07:34:30 <mavhc> I noticed tomtom has a thing to download "this week's satellite position predictions" from the internet
Jun 03 07:35:33 <Stskeeps_> isn't that essentially AGPS? :P
Jun 03 07:36:10 <Myrtti> since when has NXXX been mainly for GPS anyway ;-)
Jun 03 07:36:31 <Myrtti> it's a "nice to have" but I wouldn't call it the main feature of the thing
Jun 03 07:36:38 <Myrtti> Numpty Physics is!
Jun 03 07:36:40 <Myrtti> :-D
Jun 03 07:36:42 <Myrtti> *grin*
Jun 03 07:36:52 <Stskeeps_> Myrtti: i wouldn't mind some location based apps
Jun 03 07:37:26 <Myrtti> Stskeeps_: me neither, but I wouldn't buy it just for the sake of GPS
Jun 03 08:08:41 <Macer> i started to watch true blood and can't stop
Jun 03 08:13:19 <RST38h> Heh, looks like OpenGL is out of the question in Fremantle for now
Jun 03 08:14:09 <X-Fade> RST38h: It always was?
Jun 03 08:14:34 <X-Fade> RST38h: OpenGL-ES is supported by hardware, which isn't OpenGL.
Jun 03 08:15:39 <X-Fade> Although my understanding is that porting an OpenGL 2 app to OpenGL-ES, should not be that hard.
Jun 03 08:15:46 <X-Fade> But porting from 1.0 is.
Jun 03 08:16:34 <RST38h> X-Fade: No OpenGL ES either.
Jun 03 08:17:10 <X-Fade> RST38h: You know that is not true ;)
Jun 03 08:17:20 <X-Fade> There is just this compositing issue.
Jun 03 08:18:43 <RST38h> X-Fade: If it is not fixed, the above statement is true
Jun 03 08:19:22 <X-Fade> There is work being done in multiple places for that. It is about only being able to have one context?
Jun 03 08:20:11 <X-Fade> RST38h: But Fremantle and a device aren't out yet, so this point is really not interesting yet.
Jun 03 08:20:32 <RST38h> X-Fade: It is time to start whining already though =)
Jun 03 08:21:10 <X-Fade> I'm sure Imagination ech is getting kicked already..
Jun 03 08:23:33 <RST38h> X-Fade: I do not think ImageTech is to blame
Jun 03 08:23:52 <RST38h> X-Fade: For full-screen applications, the desktop should just surrender the context to the app
Jun 03 08:24:29 <X-Fade> RST38h: true, although how would you show applicatin notifications on top?
Jun 03 08:26:29 <RST38h> X-Fade: You won't
Jun 03 08:26:50 <RST38h> X-Fade: If the app takes over screen updates, it is agood hint to desktop to shut up
Jun 03 08:26:50 <X-Fade> And that is probably not acceptable either.
Jun 03 08:27:29 <X-Fade> RST38h: If you have an incoming call for instance or you are running out of battery, you want something in your screen to notify you about it?
Jun 03 08:27:54 <RST38h> X-Fade: for the call, I want the app suspended and the phone app started
Jun 03 08:28:09 <RST38h> X-Fade: For *anything* else including the battery, I want he desktop to shut up.
Jun 03 08:28:32 <RST38h> X-Fade: Ok, maybe an audio or LED warning about the battery.
Jun 03 08:29:27 <X-Fade> In Fremantle all applications are essentially full screen apps.
Jun 03 08:29:51 <RST38h> X-Fade: By full screen I mean real full screen
Jun 03 08:30:20 <RST38h> X-Fade: as in DirectDraw "exclusive" screen mode, Symbian DirectScreen, Unix console ownership, etc
Jun 03 08:31:05 <X-Fade> I'm not sure if, for these devices, we need to think about this desktop like paradigm of exclusively owning a screen.
Jun 03 08:31:24 <RST38h> X-Fade: We should not. We should let app developers own the screen if they want to.
Jun 03 08:31:36 <RST38h> X-Fade: Everybody else including Symbian/S60 does that.
Jun 03 08:32:10 <X-Fade> RST38h: But wouldn't that change the complete integrated experience?
Jun 03 08:32:12 <RST38h> X-Fade: Excluding this ability will automatically cause a shitstorm from developers
Jun 03 08:32:20 <RST38h> X-Fade: Well, it does not for the S60 phones
Jun 03 08:32:48 <RST38h> X-Fade: Nor for Windows, where games often take over the screen
Jun 03 08:33:29 <X-Fade> I wonder how we would consistently switch back to the desktop now there doesn't seem to be a home button anymore.
Jun 03 08:33:52 <RST38h> X-Fade: I am sure there will be SOME button :)
Jun 03 08:34:36 <X-Fade> RST38h: Wasn't there on the developer device, which should have been feature complete for developers? :)
Jun 03 08:35:43 <RST38h> No idea :)
Jun 03 08:35:57 <RST38h> But it would be weird if Nokia released a completely buttonless device
Jun 03 08:36:00 <RST38h> Not very nokia like
Jun 03 08:36:27 <X-Fade> No, there were some buttons. But those were zoom, power and I think camera button.
Jun 03 08:36:46 <keesj> I guess that the maximize button on top can now be used for that
Jun 03 08:37:04 <X-Fade> keesj: Do you remember if that one was there?
Jun 03 08:37:18 <keesj> there where some button there yes
Jun 03 08:37:35 <X-Fade> Yeah, but exactly which ones ;)
Jun 03 08:37:47 <keesj> don't know sorry
Jun 03 08:49:18 <lcuk> there was a zoom button?
Jun 03 08:49:20 * lcuk ooohs
Jun 03 08:49:44 <keesj> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pf9FFojvjE (the Hacking week-end)
Jun 03 08:49:50 <lcuk> and i pressed that camera button for all i was worth and prolly took pictures of the inside of the office
Jun 03 08:50:20 <lbt> there was +/- zoom
Jun 03 08:50:39 <lbt> IIRC there was one in the middle too
Jun 03 08:50:45 <lcuk> on #7 or on all of em lol
Jun 03 08:51:00 <lbt> #7 was special
Jun 03 08:51:22 <lcuk> keesj, im quite proud of myself - ive nearly got autotools working on device :)
Jun 03 08:51:34 <lcuk> you wasted an opportunity to have fun with #7
Jun 03 08:51:47 <lbt> I know :(
Jun 03 08:51:48 <X-Fade> keesj: Nice!
Jun 03 08:51:56 <lbt> just posted in tmo
Jun 03 08:54:51 <lbt> keesj: very good.... but you missed the bar and the ice-cream ;)
Jun 03 08:57:39 <lcuk> keesj, :D wicked, that sort of thing would make a great app for new device
Jun 03 08:57:47 <lcuk> did anyone do a df on the device?
Jun 03 08:58:31 <Stskeeps> devel device, so doesnt match resulting product
Jun 03 08:58:41 <Stskeeps> but it was really nice
Jun 03 08:59:11 <keesj> lcuk: the programs is called "motion" last time i cheked it did not support gstreamer and also only video4linux1 support
Jun 03 09:04:03 <lbt> lcuk: yes
Jun 03 09:04:33 <lbt> when the rootfs ran out of space when I installed most of Ubuntu
Jun 03 09:04:41 <lbt> from the Mer repo ;)
Jun 03 09:05:28 <lcuk> lol lbt :D any gossip from it? :D
Jun 03 09:05:43 <lbt> Did I mention that the application and libraries that I won the coding competition with were installed from the Mer repositories?
Jun 03 09:06:08 <lcuk> keesj cool - i gather it would be trivial to use it as an alarm type feature with the accel unit and have it autouploading
Jun 03 09:06:22 <lcuk> ive heard yeah lbt
Jun 03 09:06:27 <lbt> lcuk nah, nothing to see... and qg asked not to chat about internals :)
Jun 03 09:07:22 <lcuk> :) reasonable enough
Jun 03 09:23:49 <kynde> for the record. I just tried the forementionen 'motion' in n810 and it worked. didn't bother with the ffmpeg yet, but it took motion based screenshots nicely.
Jun 03 09:29:21 <RST38h> X-Fade: maemo.org still does not update page after logging in (+ that weird header size bug)
Jun 03 09:29:58 <X-Fade> RST38h: Can you check what response header you get after logging in?
Jun 03 09:30:24 <RST38h> X-Fade: Looks like this: 1) enter long/password 2) click OK or press ENTER 3) header shrinks to smaller size for a few moments 4) header returns to unlogged state 5) Press SHIFT+ENTER 6) after some delay header changes to logged in state
Jun 03 09:30:49 <RST38h> X-Fade: I am afraid not easily: using FireFox at work, I am behind a proxy
Jun 03 09:31:03 <RST38h> But the same stuff happens at home too
Jun 03 09:31:47 <X-Fade> RST38h: We don't run any javascript on form submit which does anything with layout.
Jun 03 09:31:55 <X-Fade> That part is the weirdest.
Jun 03 09:32:14 <X-Fade> If you complete flush disk cache, does it still happen?
Jun 03 09:32:36 <RST38h> Guess so
Jun 03 09:32:52 <RST38h> Let me try from IE, I do not need its cache :)
Jun 03 09:33:06 <X-Fade> Sure.
Jun 03 09:33:20 <X-Fade> But do you see it in IE and FF3?
Jun 03 09:33:31 <RST38h> Have not checked form IE in a while
Jun 03 09:34:34 <RST38h> X-Fade: Ok, IE6, clean cache
Jun 03 09:34:57 <RST38h> X-Fade: First of all the header in IE stays small. In FF3, the header stays large except for that moment where it becomes small
Jun 03 09:35:21 <X-Fade> Can you hit control-0 (zero) in ff3?
Jun 03 09:35:23 <RST38h> X-Fade: Secondly, with clean cache in IE6 there logged in page appears just fine no need to reload
Jun 03 09:35:48 <RST38h> Ctrl-0 makes header small, just like in IE
Jun 03 09:35:59 <X-Fade> Yeah, so you are in zoom mode in ff3.
Jun 03 09:36:08 <RST38h> yes but I have just restarted FF3
Jun 03 09:36:14 <X-Fade> ctrl-0 resets it.
Jun 03 09:36:37 <X-Fade> ctrl + will give you the large header again.
Jun 03 09:38:47 <RST38h> Weird
Jun 03 09:38:58 <RST38h> Does it me that at home I have zoom as well?
Jun 03 09:39:04 <X-Fade> Yep
Jun 03 09:39:14 <X-Fade> That is what I tried to explain yesterday.
Jun 03 09:39:24 <RST38h> And it memorizes the setting???
Jun 03 09:39:31 <X-Fade> And somehow ff3 saves that setting per website.
Jun 03 09:39:50 <X-Fade> You probably didn't have the problem on the wiki?
Jun 03 09:39:52 <X-Fade> Or talk?
Jun 03 09:39:56 <RST38h> nope
Jun 03 09:40:03 <X-Fade> Try ctrl + there ;)
Jun 03 09:40:10 <RST38h> This sounds very very weird
Jun 03 09:40:30 <RST38h> Ok, IE6 does not appear to have problems showing logged-in page
Jun 03 09:40:37 <RST38h> Although it may just be due to clean cache
Jun 03 09:40:41 <X-Fade> RST38h: Imagine me being on the recieving end and needing to debug this.
Jun 03 09:41:00 <RST38h> X-Fade: Ah, I know the feeling
Jun 03 09:41:21 * RST38h once received a bug report from a guy who said that the simulated screen image is all smeared
Jun 03 09:41:25 <X-Fade> Btw, if I log in I get these headers.
Jun 03 09:41:26 <X-Fade> Cache-Control: max-age=0 must-revalidate
Jun 03 09:41:26 <X-Fade> Pragma: no-cache
Jun 03 09:41:43 <RST38h> I can't see the headers from here
Jun 03 09:41:43 <X-Fade> Which should mean the browser can not cache it.
Jun 03 09:42:03 <X-Fade> Live http headers plugin for FF is great ;)
Jun 03 09:42:18 <RST38h> Apparently, guy's video card was very smart for its time, it did image smoothign in hardware on StretchBlt()s
Jun 03 09:42:50 <RST38h> X-Fade: I am afraid my proxy will eat those
Jun 03 09:42:54 <X-Fade> Nice, soft blurry images for free.
Jun 03 09:43:18 <X-Fade> RST38h: Well, no they should be ok even with proxy. That is what pragma is for.
Jun 03 09:44:20 <X-Fade> But if it doesn't work on proxies  then we need to debug it, so we can fix that issue.
Jun 03 09:51:30 <RST38h> X-Fade: the home machine does not use proxy but still exhibits the same behaviour somehow. Will check headers at home.
Jun 03 09:55:54 <Mikho> Is there a way to find out the N810 battery power level with some function call?
Jun 03 09:56:35 <X-Fade> Mikho: Ask over DBus?
Jun 03 09:57:28 <RST38h> there is a file in /sys I think
Jun 03 09:57:48 <Mikho> I can't find any helpful information in http://maemo.org/development/documentation/apis/4-1/
Jun 03 09:57:57 <Mikho> hmm
Jun 03 09:57:58 <X-Fade> Mikho: You could check the source of: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=14115
Jun 03 10:02:58 <Mikho> looks like the home page of the battery-status tool (nitapps.com) is down
Jun 03 10:03:53 <lardman> morning
Jun 03 10:04:27 <lardman> X-Fade: how often does karma get recalculated?
Jun 03 10:04:51 <lardman> X-Fade: I've finally posted something to the list, my pre-post Discussion karma was 65, I'm waiting to see if it registers the post
Jun 03 10:04:53 <X-Fade> About once a day, maybe 2.
Jun 03 10:05:11 <lardman> ok, thanks
Jun 03 10:05:21 <X-Fade> lardman: Yeah, that would be a good test. Let's see ;)
Jun 03 10:06:37 <florian> good morning
Jun 03 10:08:41 <lbt> is #mer in the karma calcs ;)
Jun 03 10:09:03 <X-Fade> lbt: Nope.
Jun 03 10:09:08 <lbt> <sigh>
Jun 03 10:09:21 * lbt nags Jaffa
Jun 03 10:09:24 <X-Fade> lbt: But wiki edits are and you seem to be getting a lot of points there lately ;)
Jun 03 10:09:39 <lbt> heh... more to come according to my sprint
Jun 03 10:13:02 * timeless_mbp frowns
Jun 03 10:13:04 <timeless_mbp> andre__: ping
Jun 03 10:14:41 <andre__> timeless_mbp, pong
Jun 03 10:15:06 <timeless_mbp> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=563546
Jun 03 10:15:15 <timeless_mbp> i need some gtk experts
Jun 03 10:15:18 <timeless_mbp> where do i hunt for them?
Jun 03 10:16:40 <Stskeeps> nokia contractors? Â:)
Jun 03 10:16:47 <Mikho> looks like the source for the battery-status tool isn't available
Jun 03 10:17:05 <qwerty12> Mikho: It's a python program, dpkg-deb -x ;)
Jun 03 10:17:17 <Mikho> oh, ok
Jun 03 10:18:18 <X-Fade> lardman: Check your profile ;)
Jun 03 10:18:49 <lardman> X-Fade: good stuff
Jun 03 10:19:01 <lardman> well then, the 170 odd missing emails must be the old ones
Jun 03 10:19:28 <X-Fade> lardman: Yeah alexey will work on a recount script which touches old entries.
Jun 03 10:19:57 <andre__> timeless_mbp,  #gtk+ on gimpnet irc i'd say
Jun 03 10:20:01 <lardman> actually, there is one other option I should probably test - I sent that email using webmail, not using outlook, perhaps I should try testing that too?
Jun 03 10:20:23 <X-Fade> lardman: Sure.
Jun 03 10:20:32 <lardman> let me look for something useful to say ;)
Jun 03 10:20:53 <X-Fade> heh :)
Jun 03 10:23:11 <Mikho> ok, got it. Thanks for advice :)
Jun 03 10:37:36 <lardman> X-Fade: ok, fired one off from Outlook, we'll see what happens
Jun 03 10:38:07 <qwerty12> lardman: your karma goes down if it detects the word "outlook" in the headers
Jun 03 10:38:16 <lardman> yeah, probably true :)
Jun 03 10:38:26 <Stskeeps> or modest
Jun 03 10:38:51 <lardman> yeah, well modest often won't send anyway
Jun 03 10:38:52 <X-Fade> Did anyone try out the current modest versions on diablo?
Jun 03 10:39:04 <X-Fade> It should work on diablo too.
Jun 03 10:45:09 <RST38h> won't send, won't receive, won't read, won't authenticate
Jun 03 10:45:15 <RST38h> yea, that is Modest for sure =)
Jun 03 10:45:32 <lardman> mine sends and reads most of the time, just sometimes it wont
Jun 03 10:45:46 <lardman> more painful is when it decides I have new mail, just locks up everything
Jun 03 10:46:12 <aquatix> is there a repository for modest snapshots?
Jun 03 10:46:26 <aquatix> i'd like to try whether my bugs have been fixed or not
Jun 03 10:47:11 <X-Fade> aquatix: No, only source in git.
Jun 03 10:47:18 <aquatix> meh
Jun 03 10:48:57 <lardman> still 66... ;)
Jun 03 10:49:06 * lardman goes to grab a coffee
Jun 03 10:51:01 * timeless_mbp sighs
Jun 03 10:51:06 <timeless_mbp> oh no
Jun 03 10:51:09 * timeless_mbp missed lunch
Jun 03 10:51:17 <X-Fade> lardman: It increased.
Jun 03 10:56:19 <lardman> so it did, right, so it looks like it's old emails missing then
Jun 03 11:19:59 <lardman> what's the latest Tear version? 0.3.1-1?
Jun 03 11:20:34 <qwerty12> 0.3.1-2
Jun 03 11:20:39 <qwerty12> http://bundyo.org/maemo/tear/tear-0.3.1-2_armel.deb
Jun 03 11:20:47 <lardman> cool, thanks
Jun 03 11:21:05 * lardman curses pretty web2.0 sites like the BBC one
Jun 03 11:21:10 <aquatix> btw, i can't seem to paste/copy to/from the Tear address bar
Jun 03 11:21:21 <aquatix> bbc works fine in Tear :)
Jun 03 11:21:26 <lardman> just slow
Jun 03 11:21:27 * aquatix reads it every day
Jun 03 11:21:34 <aquatix> news.bbc.co.uk then
Jun 03 11:21:38 <qwerty12> lardman: Heh, their embedding videos makes Flash go all funny :)
Jun 03 11:21:53 <aquatix> ah yeah
Jun 03 11:21:58 <aquatix> disable flash ;)
Jun 03 11:22:09 <lardman> I want to watch the video though!
Jun 03 11:22:19 <lardman> I should buy a new computer with a headphone socket
Jun 03 11:22:29 <aquatix> it sort of worked here
Jun 03 11:22:39 <aquatix> flash was kinda heavy somehow though
Jun 03 11:22:54 <aquatix> youtube works fine, but bbc not that much
Jun 03 11:23:12 <lardman> what about with the default browser then?
Jun 03 11:23:34 <aquatix> i guess the same, didn't try yet
Jun 03 11:23:47 <qwerty12> They should set up a special page, like they do when you go onto BBC iplayer with a Wii
Jun 03 11:23:53 <aquatix> Tear is so much better than microb
Jun 03 11:23:54 <lardman> qwerty12: is that url a repo?
Jun 03 11:24:11 <qwerty12> lardman: Nope, straight deb. Qole runs a repo with it however
Jun 03 11:24:19 <lardman> it's down apparently
Jun 03 11:24:31 <qwerty12> Hmm, works here
Jun 03 11:25:18 <qwerty12> File from qole's repo: http://qole.org/repository/pool/main/tear-0.3.1-2_armel.deb
Jun 03 11:25:18 <lardman> no idea, anyway will install that one and see how it goes
Jun 03 11:25:19 <aquatix> http://qole.maemobox.org/repository  maemo  main
Jun 03 11:25:31 <aquatix> lardman: ^
Jun 03 11:25:43 <lardman> yeah, told me it couldn't refresh
Jun 03 11:25:54 <qwerty12> His new link is qole.org
Jun 03 11:26:08 <aquatix> ah
Jun 03 11:26:15 <qwerty12> Maemobox is no more (officially anyway, it's still up and I deleted all my files from it...)
Jun 03 11:26:39 <lardman> ah, better, thanks
Jun 03 11:26:52 * aquatix changes
Jun 03 11:27:23 * lardman updates libwebkit while he's at it
Jun 03 11:28:14 <aquatix> dang, this wifi is slow
Jun 03 11:29:54 <lardman> mmm, much quicker now, good
Jun 03 11:30:21 <aquatix> ooh, updates
Jun 03 11:30:46 <JesperHansen> is everyone using maemo atm. developers or are the general users among?
Jun 03 11:30:49 <aquatix> meh, only minor ones
Jun 03 11:31:10 <aquatix> (bug @ Tear Description: `dashhboard')
Jun 03 11:31:38 <qwerty12> -2 contains a little more than that IIRC, read the thread
Jun 03 11:31:46 <lcuk> thats not a typo, its a super fast dashboard
Jun 03 11:32:02 <aquatix> lcuk: :)
Jun 03 11:32:08 <lardman> I think updating libwebkit did the trick for me
Jun 03 11:32:41 <lcuk> JesperHansen, regular users play lots
Jun 03 11:32:54 * lcuk got shouted at muchly by the family for taking the devices away last week
Jun 03 11:35:45 <JesperHansen> lcuk: any feedback from them that is different from a developers point of view?
Jun 03 11:36:56 <lcuk> yeah - ive never heard tracy talk about problems with scratchbox
Jun 03 11:37:17 * lcuk finds new stuff on it everytime 
Jun 03 11:37:18 <lardman> except that you're using it all the time ;)
Jun 03 11:37:24 <lcuk> shes not managed to break it yet which is good
Jun 03 11:37:38 <lcuk> different device lol
Jun 03 11:37:49 <lcuk> hey simon, i got all my sketches back :D
Jun 03 11:38:22 <lardman> from your broken card?
Jun 03 11:38:34 <lcuk> yeah
Jun 03 11:38:41 <lardman> good stuff
Jun 03 11:39:04 <lcuk> yeah deffo - everything right up  to about 2 minutes before the corruption, was so relieved
Jun 03 11:40:32 <X-Fade> lcuk: Time for some backup routine?
Jun 03 11:40:45 <X-Fade> Or a web sync service ;)
Jun 03 11:41:21 <lcuk> already very muchly onthe cards
Jun 03 11:41:38 <lcuk> i had a backup from just before i left (I always take one) but it was like the whole weekend vanished
Jun 03 11:42:08 <X-Fade> Hmm that would have been bad.
Jun 03 11:43:22 <JesperHansen> Gods way to say "I dislike what you did there, reverse it!"
Jun 03 11:43:23 <lcuk> yeah i have annotations and points all nicely timestamped again :)
Jun 03 11:46:05 <lcuk> X-Fade, its a good job z4chh is writing a network monitor within liqbase, i wonder what might be includable in that data stream
Jun 03 11:46:22 <lcuk> JesperHansen, god uses liqbase himself
Jun 03 11:46:27 <woglinde> lol
Jun 03 11:46:33 <lcuk> and moses wrote his commandments using it
Jun 03 11:46:45 <lcuk> it wasnt a stone tablet, it was a nokia tablet
Jun 03 11:46:58 <JesperHansen> yea, next time you piss him off, lightning may strike you
Jun 03 11:47:03 <JesperHansen> from your computer
Jun 03 11:47:16 <lcuk> his lightening cannot harm me, my liqbase is like a shield of bacon
Jun 03 11:47:25 <jaska> ablative armor
Jun 03 11:47:27 <woglinde> lcuk so it seems the weekend was very sucessfull
Jun 03 11:48:30 <lcuk> woglinde, very very worthwhile for all parties - i think we have all come away with new found respect for each others projects and ideas
Jun 03 11:48:37 <JesperHansen> lcuk: that depends if you can resist eating your armor and become fragile for more lightning
Jun 03 11:49:27 <lcuk> i was really impressed by the way nokia and mer got on :)
Jun 03 11:49:46 <lcuk> JesperHansen, theres always more bacon
Jun 03 11:49:52 <lcuk> ALWAYS
Jun 03 11:50:13 <JesperHansen> and to keep every bacon hungering developer in here away from you
Jun 03 11:50:25 <lcuk> woglinde, and i got to see how to hack things together for liqbase itself
Jun 03 11:50:54 <lcuk> JesperHansen, nahhh bacon is unofficial food of maemo
Jun 03 11:51:05 <jjo> lcuk: so you're the guy with the qt-demos, huh?
Jun 03 11:51:21 <lcuk> jjo  whats qt?
Jun 03 11:51:43 <jjo> oh sorry, got names wrong once again
Jun 03 11:52:34 <lcuk> my liqbase is an app and ui for maemo   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY
Jun 03 11:53:00 <JesperHansen> Stskeeps: who was the other danish guy at your maemo table in the weekend? I think he was sitting next to you at some point
Jun 03 11:53:49 <jjo> lcuk: yeah, you demoed it to me lask weekend, I just always remember that that mer guy was called gary
Jun 03 11:54:09 <lcuk> yeah i am gary lol
Jun 03 11:54:17 <jjo> maybe because his surname begins with a 'g'
Jun 03 11:54:20 <lcuk> but you are prolly thinking of david - lbt (with curly hair)
Jun 03 11:54:29 <lcuk> ish
Jun 03 11:54:29 <jjo> I'm really bad with names anyways
Jun 03 11:54:42 <jjo> but yes, he was david
Jun 03 11:54:56 <lcuk> i wrote liqbase for that reason, and when everything falls into place i will have what i need to never forget
Jun 03 11:55:28 <jjo> I'll surely install it once you have packages ready :)
Jun 03 11:56:19 <lbt> jjo: hi
Jun 03 11:56:27 <jjo> oh, hi :)
Jun 03 11:56:44 <lbt> Qt eh?
Jun 03 11:56:45 <lcuk> yeah - ive been concentrating on the framework over the app recently tho, the original app is still nicer at this point, but not for much longer
Jun 03 11:57:02 <lbt> andre__: ping re https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4623
Jun 03 11:57:02 <jjo> lbt: so you're the guy with #7
Jun 03 11:57:18 <lbt> no longer sadly ... I had to leave #7 behind
Jun 03 11:57:26 <JesperHansen> lbt: nice meeting you in CPH btw
Jun 03 11:57:29 <andre__> lbt: yay?
Jun 03 11:57:30 <lcuk> jjo, who are you then
Jun 03 11:57:40 * lcuk needs images and realnames
Jun 03 11:57:45 <jjo> I'm the sdk guy with least hair
Jun 03 11:57:46 <lcuk> in irc
Jun 03 11:58:07 <lbt> andre__: that's supposed to be against the new device
Jun 03 11:58:14 <jjo> actually no hair
Jun 03 11:58:25 <lbt> jjo: ah... gothcha.... the ponytail guy ;)
Jun 03 11:58:34 <lcuk> and a funky goatee that mustv taken about 6 months to grow right?
Jun 03 11:58:44 <andre__> lbt, i know.
Jun 03 11:58:58 <jjo> lcuk: well, yes
Jun 03 11:59:01 <lbt> BTW lcuk   http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/mozmae/  need names/handles
Jun 03 11:59:05 * lcuk was impressed 
Jun 03 11:59:17 <lcuk> im not a member of flickr (for some reason)
Jun 03 11:59:22 <lcuk> my finger is named and shamed tho
Jun 03 11:59:30 <lbt> andre__: was I wrong about that feature being missing?
Jun 03 11:59:40 <lbt> it was something I noticed in the room
Jun 03 11:59:53 <lbt> jjo: I told you I'd file a bug on it : https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4623
Jun 03 12:00:01 <andre__> lbt, for me it works
Jun 03 12:00:05 <andre__> hence i cannot reproduce
Jun 03 12:00:20 <jjo> lbt: sweet :)
Jun 03 12:00:26 <lbt> that's cool - as I said, it was on the developer release... could be fixed now :)
Jun 03 12:03:53 <lbt> jjo: we were talking to Sonia (?) about architecture info... is anything available yet?
Jun 03 12:04:01 <X-Fade> lbt: Soumya ;)
Jun 03 12:04:15 * JesperHansen brings food to the channel http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/pizzaburger.jpeg
Jun 03 12:04:32 <jjo> lbt: not thatm I'm aware
Jun 03 12:04:39 * lbt just ordered a ham+cheese s'wich
Jun 03 12:05:37 <lbt> jjo: OK, qgil was saying that it was prepared but not released... it would be useful to have as part of the SDK docs... I'd like to use it for Mer purposes too
Jun 03 12:06:28 <lcuk> JesperHansen, i never thought i would say this, but you managed to find a bacon meal that makes me feel queezy
Jun 03 12:06:55 <lbt> serves 2 though
Jun 03 12:07:18 <lcuk> yeah, if there was more bacon i wouldnt mind
Jun 03 12:07:26 <lcuk> and the dreamcatcher is good
Jun 03 12:07:58 <kfx> that is some serious goon food
Jun 03 12:08:03 <jjo> lbt: I sure it would. I hope we get it out asap
Jun 03 12:08:23 <lbt> cool
Jun 03 12:08:45 <lbt> so any comments/progress/thoughts on a new widget gallery?
Jun 03 12:08:50 <lcuk> jjo, have you wiped off the code from those  dev units
Jun 03 12:10:11 <lcuk> lbt, for which toolkit (or neednt i ask.. :P)
Jun 03 12:10:22 <lbt> gtk actually
Jun 03 12:10:33 <lbt> ( so we can make some Qt equivalents )
Jun 03 12:10:39 <jjo> lcuk: I just gave them to soumya, but I don't think theyve been reflashed
Jun 03 12:10:53 <lbt> and more importantly, better understand the use-cases they apply to
Jun 03 12:11:07 <lcuk> cos i bet on one of them there is still the full libliqbase stuff
Jun 03 12:12:38 <jjo> lbt: there has been some ideas about the widget gallery, but nothing has been done yet
Jun 03 12:12:42 <lcuk> lbt, widgets without apps or expected uses arent that good, its like looking at a jigsaw piece and imagining the whole scene
Jun 03 12:12:58 <lbt> invisible ones are worse
Jun 03 12:13:00 * lcuk has plans for every single widget in liqbase :)
Jun 03 12:15:50 <jjo> lbt: what did you have in mind? something like gtk2.0-examples or...?
Jun 03 12:17:55 <lardman> Weather looks good, /me eats his lightning shield
Jun 03 12:18:07 <lbt> http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/hildon/ch02.html is a start...
Jun 03 12:18:08 <amit_> nick amit_usual
Jun 03 12:18:25 * lbt hands amit_ a /
Jun 03 12:19:11 <X-Fade> lbt: That one needs some serious updating :)
Jun 03 12:19:23 <lbt> that was my point ;)
Jun 03 12:19:28 <jjo> lbt: oh, that.
Jun 03 12:19:34 <lbt> and the reason for the original request
Jun 03 12:20:28 <lardman> dneary: re opengl wrappers, I'm sure I said that earlier in the thread, did no-one get my email?
Jun 03 12:21:02 <dneary> lardman: you pointed to a forum thread?
Jun 03 12:21:05 <dneary> lardman: I saw it
Jun 03 12:21:24 <dneary> I pointed to 2 different projects - one of them was the one in the forum thread you pointed to, I think
Jun 03 12:21:26 <lardman> yeah, i should have explained more perhaps... that's why I'm not a docs guy ;)
Jun 03 12:21:30 <dneary> So your mail got through :)
Jun 03 12:21:39 <lardman> :)
Jun 03 12:23:03 <lardman> lol @ screenshots for DOGLESS
Jun 03 12:23:27 <lardman> very useful :)
Jun 03 12:23:30 <lbt> also : http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/gallery-plastique.html from http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/gallery.html then linking to the docs
Jun 03 12:30:03 <jjo> lbt: makes sense. Actually I didn't even know we had that outdated one
Jun 03 12:30:09 <X-Fade> RST38h: ping?
Jun 03 12:30:51 <jjo> lbt: the gallery is being worked on after all or that's what I heard
Jun 03 12:31:52 <X-Fade> lbt: You might want to file a bug against that page.
Jun 03 12:32:02 <lbt> ok
Jun 03 12:32:03 <X-Fade> lbt: So it doesn't get lost.
Jun 03 12:32:24 <X-Fade> lbt: Another way to improve your karma :D
Jun 03 12:32:45 <lbt> heh
Jun 03 12:32:52 <jjo> filing bugs is good :)
Jun 03 12:33:10 <amit_dusual> hi i am trying to build a c library in my scratchbox it is shipped with its python bindings which require a file "python.h" what is this file and how may  get one
Jun 03 12:34:50 <VDVsx> amit_dusual, try to call "python2.5" instead of "python"
Jun 03 12:36:19 <VDVsx> and python.h is included in the python devel package
Jun 03 12:41:48 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at the OpenGL thread.
Jun 03 12:42:39 * lbt is innocent
Jun 03 12:43:03 <Stskeeps> well at least the opengl thread shows one major thing: they're working on a wrapper so games/etc can use gl ..
Jun 03 12:43:06 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 03 12:43:32 <woglinde> stskeep?
Jun 03 12:43:45 <lardman> true
Jun 03 12:43:59 <woglinde> ??? hm maybee than I read it wrong
Jun 03 12:44:04 <woglinde> some ask for it
Jun 03 12:44:05 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: why the chuckling?
Jun 03 12:44:17 <woglinde> and noby replied yes we do it
Jun 03 12:46:40 <lardman> woglinde: Try here http://forum.openhandhelds.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=884
Jun 03 12:47:17 * lbt really hasn't been paying much attention to the is-the-next-device-a-phone issue... I though qgil said at the CPH weekend that it has a SIM that did data plan only...
Jun 03 12:47:38 <lbt> did I miss something or is it just speculation?
Jun 03 12:47:50 <lbt> (in which case I have better things to do)
Jun 03 12:47:55 <lardman> I think that was from the leak wasn't it, the talk of talk?
Jun 03 12:48:25 <Stskeeps> lbt: i think we all agree that marketing people have the ability to know one thing and say another ;)
Jun 03 12:48:44 <woglinde> lbt the sim thing wasnt new
Jun 03 12:48:51 <lbt> I didn't think so
Jun 03 12:48:53 <woglinde> everybody expect it
Jun 03 12:49:42 <lbt> it'd be nice if it was a phone... but it'd have to support divert-on-mer
Jun 03 12:49:47 <woglinde> lardman ah okay
Jun 03 12:50:00 <woglinde> lbt no phone
Jun 03 12:50:24 <lbt> fine... that's what I thought
Jun 03 12:50:55 <lbt> although I still heard way too many "device or devices"....
Jun 03 12:51:19 * GeneralAntilles goes to work.
Jun 03 12:51:34 <lardman> what's work GeneralAntilles?
Jun 03 12:51:43 <lbt> yeah... we want to know
Jun 03 12:52:12 <lardman> that was not a philosophical question ;)
Jun 03 12:52:35 <lbt> no, me neither :|
Jun 03 12:54:07 <Stskeeps> ~flashing
Jun 03 12:54:08 <infobot> methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jun 03 12:55:50 <Stskeeps> yay, n810 flashing
Jun 03 13:20:32 <thux> os2008 version before diablo, was it chinook? what is main difference between them?
Jun 03 13:21:18 <thux> planning to try downgrade
Jun 03 13:22:47 <lcuk> thux, chinook started with a c
Jun 03 13:23:34 <GAN800> thux, Chinook sucked.
Jun 03 13:23:41 <qwerty12> Only advantage chinook has is that it didn't use the bullshit browserd
Jun 03 13:23:42 <thux> why?
Jun 03 13:24:00 <thux> why it sucked
Jun 03 13:24:43 <GAN800> thux, older, slower, unstable software
Jun 03 13:25:04 <GAN800> Same reasons most older software sucks compared to updated stuff.
Jun 03 13:25:20 <thux> hmm
Jun 03 13:36:08 <thux> at least i don't remember any problems with chinook's image wiever, but diablo's loop every time when watching cell phone images
Jun 03 13:38:11 <GAN800> Quiver? Canola?
Jun 03 13:39:45 <thux> must try them
Jun 03 13:40:00 <lcuk> GAN800, technically you know, there is a LOT of software that suffers due to age :)
Jun 03 13:40:18 * lcuk directs you towards oldversions.com and the popularity thereof
Jun 03 13:40:38 <RST38h> Bit rot.
Jun 03 13:41:37 <RST38h> It is some bullshit site
Jun 03 13:41:54 <RST38h> I am typing in "Turbo C" and get a bunch of "sponsored links"
Jun 03 13:41:57 <andre__> Stskeeps, around?
Jun 03 13:46:49 <Stskeepz> andre__: yeah
Jun 03 13:47:03 <andre__> yay
Jun 03 13:48:10 <andre__> Stskeepz, as I'm the bad guy closing some non-critical bug reports as "Fixed in Fremantle, Wontfix for Diablo" I'd like to add some sentence about Mer (you get more attention, I get less flamewars and complaints)
Jun 03 13:48:14 <andre__> "The Mer project aims to provide a community backport of Fremantle for N8x0 devices. See http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer for more information."
Jun 03 13:48:16 <andre__> is fine?
Jun 03 13:48:41 <Stskeepz> yeah, sure
Jun 03 13:48:51 <Stskeepz> Fremantle APIs is more accurate but let's not dive too much into details
Jun 03 13:49:17 <andre__> ok, then i'm going to use that sentence.
Jun 03 13:49:20 <andre__> yay, netsplit
Jun 03 13:51:00 <Meizirkki> anyone knows what the heck is wrong with mediabox? It says, no module called "com" (which is a directory in it's place in /usr/lib/mediabox) old version from extras is working, but new versions won't start up
Jun 03 13:51:26 <Meizirkki> when installing it says [: 8: missing]
Jun 03 13:51:34 <Stskeepz> bashism?
Jun 03 13:52:06 <Meizirkki> Stskeepz, i have no idea what's that :)
Jun 03 13:52:24 <Stskeepz> if it's on mer, its when their scripts are assuming they are running in bash and not a posix shell
Jun 03 13:52:55 <Meizirkki> yes, on Mer. do you know how to get around that?
Jun 03 13:53:15 <Stskeepz> ask the author to fix the bashism :P
Jun 03 13:54:57 <Meizirkki> Stskeepz, the weird is, postinst and /usr/lib/mediabox/MediaBox.py are both completely identical in the extras verion (that is working) and in the version that won't work..
Jun 03 13:55:26 <Meizirkki> at startup, the first line of MediaBox.py fails
Jun 03 13:55:39 <Meizirkki> (in the newer version)
Jun 03 13:55:46 <Stskeepz> who was mediabox author again?
Jun 03 13:55:55 <Meizirkki> Martin Grimme i think
Jun 03 13:55:56 <qwerty12> pycage - Martin Grimme
Jun 03 13:56:00 <Stskeepz> ah
Jun 03 13:56:18 <Stskeepz> it should be possible to get him to look at it :)
Jun 03 13:56:34 <Meizirkki> yup
Jun 03 13:58:41 * GAN800 wonders how game changing the N900 is going go be to the cellular industry.
Jun 03 13:58:52 <Stskeepz> well
Jun 03 13:58:59 <Stskeepz> did you notice the news of T-mobile etc blocking skype?
Jun 03 13:59:44 <X-Fade> Stskeepz: They just use it to sell data subscriptions at a premium ;)
Jun 03 13:59:54 <RST38h> GAN: My guess is that it will not leave a trace
Jun 03 13:59:59 <RST38h> more or less like Sidekick
Jun 03 14:00:35 * RST38h also suspects that Nokia's reasons for N900 are more or less the same as with 7650 and N95
Jun 03 14:01:14 <RST38h> i.e. "release a clumsy initial hardware, see how public receives it, then follow with actually usable devices"
Jun 03 14:02:04 * aquatix might buy it anyway
Jun 03 14:02:53 <Stskeepz> scary, crowd sourcing works
Jun 03 14:02:59 <RST38h> heh
Jun 03 14:03:11 <xnt14> helloworld!
Jun 03 14:03:17 <RST38h> ehlo
Jun 03 14:03:22 <xnt14> :)
Jun 03 14:04:01 * xnt14 is tired of sitting home sick in bed for 3 days, and not go on irc
Jun 03 14:04:11 <xnt14> oh
Jun 03 14:04:13 <xnt14> and
Jun 03 14:04:28 <xnt14> I also made another mer theme :)
Jun 03 14:04:29 <Stskeepz> tablet..
Jun 03 14:04:29 <Stskeepz> :P
Jun 03 14:04:38 <xnt14> :P
Jun 03 14:04:52 * aquatix wonders...
Jun 03 14:05:03 <aquatix> if i get an n900, i can install mer on my n810 :)
Jun 03 14:05:09 * Stskeepz is so happy about having a tablet when he's ill
Jun 03 14:05:22 * aquatix is happy about not being ill that often
Jun 03 14:05:24 <xnt14> :)
Jun 03 14:05:26 <aquatix> but a tablet is damn great
Jun 03 14:05:56 * xnt14 hates the fact that it came out of nowhere
Jun 03 14:06:07 <xnt14> one day
Jun 03 14:06:10 <xnt14> bam
Jun 03 14:06:17 <xnt14> body hurts
Jun 03 14:06:24 <xnt14> feels dizzy
Jun 03 14:06:33 <xnt14> then I sit in bed
Jun 03 14:07:16 <jophish> Are there any good open source gps pathfinders to run on maemo or mer
Jun 03 14:07:31 <xnt14> and I get told that im sick
Jun 03 14:07:42 <xnt14> I thought I got the swine flu :P
Jun 03 14:08:00 <xnt14> jophish: maemo mapper
Jun 03 14:08:15 <xnt14> but the gps on the n810 sucks
Jun 03 14:08:21 <jophish> really?
Jun 03 14:08:25 <xnt14> takes forever to get a fix
Jun 03 14:08:31 <xnt14> yup
Jun 03 14:08:38 <xnt14> hold on a sec, ill get a link
Jun 03 14:08:44 <jophish> already found it
Jun 03 14:08:49 <jophish> thanks very much
Jun 03 14:08:55 <xnt14> oh ok then :)
Jun 03 14:08:58 <xnt14> n[
Jun 03 14:09:00 <xnt14> (np
Jun 03 14:09:04 <xnt14> **np
Jun 03 14:09:19 <xnt14> I hate this crappy laptop keyboard
Jun 03 14:15:28 <wjs_ltop_> Hello people.. I've finally gotten around to messing with getting A2DP working again after the last flash update. Now I'm wondering about AVRCP, is a2dpd no longer used?  A kernel uinput module was mentioned at one point, but no info on how to get/install it.
Jun 03 14:15:42 <wjs_ltop_> I'd post this in the forums, but my posting privledges are nonexistant since the move from internettablittalk
Jun 03 14:16:33 <wjs_ltop_> And, yes I did ask this same question last night...
Jun 03 14:17:09 <Stskeepz> nonexistant, why? :P
Jun 03 14:17:17 <Stskeepz> and we didn't move, we just renamed
Jun 03 14:18:32 <wjs_ltop_> Stskeepz, I don't know.  I recall posting in the past, but now I get an error about no permission to post.  I've sent a message twice to the admins about it.
Jun 03 14:18:38 <Stskeeps> hm, odd
Jun 03 14:21:57 * xnt14 chucks his laptop out a window
Jun 03 14:22:12 <xnt14> *smash*
Jun 03 14:23:06 * qwerty12 spots xnt14's laptop in a river
Jun 03 14:23:26 * xnt14 buys a new laptop
Jun 03 14:25:52 * xnt14 gets this laptop http://www.rudd.cc/~john/NIT/nokia-n810-modified-4open.jpg
Jun 03 14:25:57 <xnt14> err, tablet
Jun 03 14:26:05 * xnt14 returns it
Jun 03 14:26:42 <xnt14> and
Jun 03 14:27:01 * xnt14 buys this: http://system76.com/images/bonp2_open_med.jpg
Jun 03 14:27:36 * xnt14 reads the #maemo topic
Jun 03 14:27:43 <Meizirkki> fubuntu!
Jun 03 14:28:01 <xnt14> Warning #maemo is perilous for you job xD
Jun 03 14:28:08 <xnt14> fubuntu?
Jun 03 14:28:10 <xnt14> :P
Jun 03 14:28:50 <xnt14> fu-buntu?
Jun 03 14:28:58 <xnt14> or "f" ubuntu?
Jun 03 14:33:10 <Meizirkki> xnt14, nevermind ;)
Jun 03 14:33:32 <xnt14> :P
Jun 03 14:35:14 <fiferboy> lbt: ping?
Jun 03 14:49:31 <lbt> hi fiferboy
Jun 03 14:49:48 <fiferboy> lbt, hi.  You busy?
Jun 03 14:49:55 <lbt> not right now
Jun 03 14:50:11 <RST38h> Anyone interested in a bit of web statistics? :)
Jun 03 14:50:18 <lbt> 0.3 %
Jun 03 14:51:13 <fiferboy> lbt: I'll send you my changes.  Things are mostly working, but I just noticed a bug when overshooting in two directions that I will fix
Jun 03 14:51:15 <RST38h> Comparing Google Analytics stats for May 2007 vs May 2009
Jun 03 14:51:24 <lcuk> RST38h, 75% of people would be interested if you can ensure the other 35% dont moan
Jun 03 14:51:37 <lbt> ok
Jun 03 14:51:38 <RST38h> Linux doubled from 3.8% to 7.15%
Jun 03 14:52:11 <RST38h> Windoze fell from 91.5% to 85.8%, all the penguin worshippers, rejoice NOW
Jun 03 14:52:28 <RST38h> Now bowsers^H^Hparodn browsers
Jun 03 14:52:59 <RST38h> FireFox: 31.78% ==> 44.82%, IE: 59.8% ==> 39.03%
Jun 03 14:53:30 <RST38h> (btw, given that I support all the platforms including Symbian, this has all chances to represent the overall distribution)
Jun 03 14:53:57 <lardman> looking at browser stats, has anyone spotted any likely n900s?
Jun 03 14:54:17 <RST38h> No good news for macnuts, you stay in the same hole in the ground
Jun 03 14:54:37 <xnt14> RST38H: and this is for, maemo.org?
Jun 03 14:54:44 <RST38h> lardman: Not really, need a honey pot for that ;)
Jun 03 14:54:50 <RST38h> xnt14: fms.komkon.org
Jun 03 14:54:57 <xnt14> oh ok :P
Jun 03 14:55:07 <RST38h> konqueror is WAY down, nobody uses it
Jun 03 14:55:30 <RST38h> Opera Mini is whopping 1.2%, up from 0%
Jun 03 14:55:39 <xnt14> RST38H: nice page
Jun 03 14:55:50 <xnt14> better then my current page
Jun 03 14:55:56 <RST38h> Opera stays at 4.5% no changes, time to sell the company :)
Jun 03 14:56:03 <xnt14> :P
Jun 03 14:56:17 <lardman> RST38h: now we know why itt's hosting was moved ;)
Jun 03 14:56:21 <RST38h> Chrome is now 4.68%, bigger than Safari
Jun 03 14:56:31 <RST38h> lardman: ? =)
Jun 03 14:57:02 <RST38h> PlayStation Portable is 21 visits per month! Ho ho ho
Jun 03 14:57:10 <xnt14> lol
Jun 03 14:57:19 <xnt14> the psp browser is crap
Jun 03 14:57:26 <xnt14> low memory errors
Jun 03 14:57:33 <RST38h> About the same for PS3, NetFront, and HTCs combined
Jun 03 14:57:35 <xnt14> but 21 visits?
Jun 03 14:57:48 <RST38h> HTC adds phone name to the agent line, for unknown reason
Jun 03 14:58:02 <xnt14> any notable phones?
Jun 03 14:58:12 <xnt14> htc dream?
Jun 03 14:58:15 <xnt14> magic?
Jun 03 14:58:21 <xnt14> touch pro?
Jun 03 14:58:23 <RST38h> No, the usual Touches
Jun 03 14:58:29 <RST38h> Touch Pro is there
Jun 03 14:58:39 <RST38h> 2 iPhones
Jun 03 14:58:48 <xnt14> lol
Jun 03 14:58:53 <RST38h> Satan visited with the agent name of "####666"
Jun 03 14:59:00 * RST38h hails Satan
Jun 03 14:59:07 * xnt14 logs into his google analytics
Jun 03 14:59:22 <RST38h> 1 visit from IE 9.0
Jun 03 14:59:26 <xnt14> screenshot?
Jun 03 14:59:28 <RST38h> No doubt also run by Satan
Jun 03 14:59:30 <xnt14> IE9?
Jun 03 14:59:34 <xnt14> lol
Jun 03 14:59:45 <RST38h> Motorola Q11, 1 visit
Jun 03 15:00:15 <RST38h> Nutexplore, 1 visit in 2007
Jun 03 15:00:47 <RST38h> A few hackers trying to push scripts through agent lines
Jun 03 15:02:08 <RST38h> Oh, screen resolutions... 1280x800 is WAY up, at the cost of 1024x768
Jun 03 15:02:20 <fiferboy> lbt: email sent
Jun 03 15:02:36 <xnt14> lol
Jun 03 15:02:40 <RST38h> In general, way more people with 16:9 screens, poor guys
Jun 03 15:02:49 * xnt14 has 15 visits from 1600x1200
Jun 03 15:03:07 <lbt> got it, I'll take a look
Jun 03 15:03:26 <RST38h> 16bpp video is down, 8bpp is out
Jun 03 15:04:18 <RST38h> Oh, perfect, Java is finally dying: 96.7% ==> 83.76%
Jun 03 15:04:42 <RST38h> Few more years and the ugly toad will finally be dead
Jun 03 15:04:52 <rmt> Hmm.. I have a Viewlet that calls a function on on the application its a part of .. What's the way to get at this, no matter the context (ie. if the context is a Model under the app)?
Jun 03 15:05:27 <lardman> RST38h: interesting definition of dying
Jun 03 15:06:09 <lardman> what does that metric measure anyway?
Jun 03 15:06:17 <rmt> Er, ignore me, wrong channel.
Jun 03 15:06:42 <xnt14> :P
Jun 03 15:07:40 <RST38h> lardman: Percentage of visitors whose browsers support Java
Jun 03 15:07:40 <lardman> xnt14: what's with your random nick chaning hey?
Jun 03 15:07:49 <lardman> RST38h: ah, I see
Jun 03 15:08:03 <lardman> RST38h: move mobile browsers I guess
Jun 03 15:08:07 <lardman> s/move/more
Jun 03 15:08:19 <RST38h> lardman: Possibly but not by this percentage
Jun 03 15:08:34 <xnt14> lardman: joking around on #liqbase, don't worry about it any more
Jun 03 15:09:10 <aquatix> xnt14: i'll visit your site when i'm home
Jun 03 15:09:22 <xnt14> aquatix: :)
Jun 03 15:09:24 <aquatix> xnt14: if you like semi-exotic screen res's
Jun 03 15:09:37 <xnt14> http://xceleo.com/
Jun 03 15:09:40 <xnt14> yeah :P
Jun 03 15:10:20 <aquatix> for now you just got a pageview at 1400x1050 from opera 10b
Jun 03 15:10:48 <xnt14> 8|
Jun 03 15:10:51 <xnt14> http://xceleo.com/version2
Jun 03 15:10:54 <xnt14> version
Jun 03 15:10:55 <xnt14> 2
Jun 03 15:22:55 <xnt14> ~seen b-man16
Jun 03 15:23:00 <infobot> b-man16 <n=b-man@adsl-90.dacor.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 12h 15m 7s ago, saying: 'luke-jr: why so negative tonight? XD'.
Jun 03 15:23:07 <xnt14> lol
Jun 03 15:23:23 <xnt14> 2 days ago, negative lol
Jun 03 15:23:38 <xnt14> ~seen B-man
Jun 03 15:23:39 <infobot> b-man <n=b-man@pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 12d 16h 11m 41s ago, saying: 'wtf'.
Jun 03 15:26:45 * xnt14 watches the google io keynote
Jun 03 15:39:53 <lopz> hola
Jun 03 15:57:29 <GAN800> Nintendo sued
Jun 03 15:58:29 <RST38h> ?
Jun 03 16:01:06 <GAN800> wrong channel
Jun 03 16:07:53 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jun 03 16:08:13 <halves> Jaffa: morning
Jun 03 16:10:12 <lbt> morning
Jun 03 16:10:30 * RST38h checks out the window: does not look like morning
Jun 03 16:11:10 <xnt14> :P
Jun 03 16:11:36 <lbt> it's always morning when you join irc
Jun 03 16:11:53 <lbt> if you're good it's always morning when you leave irc
Jun 03 16:11:55 <RST38h> and what if I never leave? does it mean perpetual midnight? =)
Jun 03 16:12:17 <lbt> night bergie
Jun 03 16:13:05 <Jaffa> RST38h: It's morning in San Francisco :-)
Jun 03 16:13:34 <thux> Jaffa: are you there?
Jun 03 16:13:40 <lbt> no, but....
Jun 03 16:13:42 <Jaffa> RST38h: But I'm at JavaOne, you wouldn't approve ;-p
Jun 03 16:13:46 <Jaffa> thux: This week, yeah.
Jun 03 16:13:54 <thux> cool
Jun 03 16:15:08 <RST38h> Jaffa: Java-compatible web users are down by ~15% over the last two years =)
Jun 03 16:15:42 <thux> always wanted to see those cisco trams which go uphill
Jun 03 16:16:20 * RST38h was scared of the trams
Jun 03 16:16:34 <Jaffa> RST38h: whereas Java-compatible desktops are up; #1 smartphone is Java based, and Java on the server side is ever-increasing. Your point?
Jun 03 16:16:41 <RST38h> Never know when to expect one of those to jump up at you
Jun 03 16:16:46 <Jaffa> The cable cars are cool, but expensive
Jun 03 16:16:52 <Jaffa> Alcatraz tour tomorrow
Jun 03 16:17:07 <RST38h> Jaffa: Ah, as long as it is margnizalized to the server world, I am ok with that :)
Jun 03 16:17:10 * Jaffa goes to find colleague.
Jun 03 16:17:15 <thux> coolest island
Jun 03 16:17:29 <RST38h> And "smartphone java" is kinda not quite java
Jun 03 16:18:41 <skibur>  how much does a typical worker make as a Linux System Administrator 1 make?
Jun 03 16:18:57 <RST38h> depends on the country and state
Jun 03 16:19:14 <Jaffa> RST38h: Eh?
Jun 03 16:24:39 <thux> skibur: here about 2200e/month
Jun 03 16:25:19 <lardman> hi Jaffa
Jun 03 16:26:29 <thux> some get more up to 4000e 2-4000e not much for hard job
Jun 03 16:26:50 <skibur> hum...
Jun 03 16:27:12 <skibur> well
Jun 03 16:27:26 <skibur> Hostgator.com is offering me $30,000
Jun 03 16:27:40 <thux> nice
Jun 03 16:27:42 <skibur> not set in stone yet, but 95% sure
Jun 03 16:27:58 <lardman> bye chaps
Jun 03 16:29:47 <qwerty12> skibur: Someone's gone to Union Bank to deposit my bank draft of $750,000.00 USD :)
Jun 03 16:29:50 <skibur> hum....
Jun 03 16:30:23 <skibur> why?
Jun 03 16:31:12 <qwerty12> Because they wanna 419 my ass
Jun 03 16:33:13 <lbt> Jaffa: want to suggest gitorious.org for git.garage...
Jun 03 16:33:32 <thux> skibur: 30.000$ a month or a year?
Jun 03 16:34:41 <skibur> a year
Jun 03 16:34:47 <skibur> which seems low to me
Jun 03 16:34:55 <thux> yes
Jun 03 16:35:40 <skibur> researching on what the base pay is for Linux Systems Administrator 1 for a web hosting company
Jun 03 16:35:43 <Jaffa> lbt: Some Maemo stuff is already using it. Part of me doesn't like the external dep (why use garage at all), another part doesn't like reinventing the wheel
Jun 03 16:36:11 <skibur> jaffa, True
Jun 03 16:36:33 <lbt> there's sprint work going into improving the git support
Jun 03 16:37:04 <lbt> they are also making gitorious do what's needed to develop Qt "in the open"
Jun 03 16:37:44 <lbt> I am thinking that git.garage could either host an instance of;  or redirect with auth to ... gitorious
Jun 03 16:38:03 <lbt> again the key is auth mapping
Jun 03 16:38:35 <lbt> so not thinking it is very external (since Nokia are already sponsoring and Trolltech live there)
Jun 03 16:38:45 <Stskeeps> question is really if mer wants to be on garage with our code hosting or not :P
Jun 03 16:38:58 <Stskeeps> (we have mailing lists there and bug tracking; it may be good to spread our liabilities)
Jun 03 16:38:58 <lbt> and re-use gitorious rather than re-invent
Jun 03 16:39:15 <lbt> and yet, Stskeeps, git is truly distributed
Jun 03 16:39:25 <lbt> we could mirror to github
Jun 03 16:39:43 <lbt>  (although that doesn't provide the ACL to manage submissions)
Jun 03 16:40:05 <lbt> so spreading the risk from a backup PoV seems easy
Jun 03 16:40:19 <Stskeeps> mm
Jun 03 16:40:32 <lbt> and gitorious is (AFAIK) sponsored by Nokia, not owned by them
Jun 03 16:41:50 <lbt> mm?
Jun 03 16:42:15 <thux> btw what is the logic behind browserd? why pc linux doesn't use it?
Jun 03 16:44:00 <Jaffa> thux: PCs have more RAM and faster CPUs
Jun 03 16:44:20 <qwerty12> The logic behind it was that it was a way for applications to use MicroB. So far, the only application that does so (excluding browser-ui) is the Flash "Getting Started" demo. Which does not say a lot when chinook's "Getting Started" did the same without browserd.
Jun 03 16:44:44 <thux> but it could benefit browser daemon?
Jun 03 16:45:36 <thux> ok
Jun 03 16:55:14 <ShadowJK> iirc ive heard startup speed mentioned too?
Jun 03 16:57:27 <qwerty12> Oh, yes, you're right. The time taken for the browser to open is a few seconds less.
Jun 03 17:03:04 <Stskeeps> it's a wazd
Jun 03 17:03:10 <wazd_n800> hello world
Jun 03 17:04:04 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, yesterday it was heat, now it's heeavy rain
Jun 03 17:04:19 <Stskeeps> ah, yeah
Jun 03 17:04:33 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, looks like I'm in Africa)
Jun 03 17:04:42 <Stskeeps> we had 4 seasons in one day :P
Jun 03 17:06:41 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, I've came up with idea how to switch desktops in Mer :)
Jun 03 17:06:45 <Stskeeps> mm? :)
Jun 03 17:07:19 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, heading home to draw it :)
Jun 03 17:08:54 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, but I think it's cool and easy to make :)
Jun 03 17:08:58 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jun 03 17:09:32 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, no gestures or something =)
Jun 03 17:09:46 <Stskeeps> big fat > button in the side of the desktop? :P
Jun 03 17:10:36 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, nah, thats lame and it's wasting precious screen space
Jun 03 17:10:51 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, you'll see :)
Jun 03 17:11:01 <Stskeeps> ;)
Jun 03 17:11:33 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, what else I should try to improve?)
Jun 03 17:12:19 <Stskeeps> wazd_n800: we have a wide range of things, like fixing up styles and such, icons, and other things that have flaws
Jun 03 17:12:24 <Stskeeps> icons, themes, wallpapers :P
Jun 03 17:12:53 <RST38h> moo wazd
Jun 03 17:13:06 <Stskeeps> like, after using mer a bit there's some inconsistencies, that need some art help :)
Jun 03 17:13:09 <RST38h> wazd: any news on that clutter issue?
Jun 03 17:14:12 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, to my mind it's better to implement all things that will be skinned and then make some Mer Theme Template to work with
Jun 03 17:14:37 <fiferboy_away> lbt: Have you had a chance to try out the changes?
Jun 03 17:14:52 <Stskeeps> wazd_n800: yeah i guess
Jun 03 17:14:58 <wazd_n800> RST38h, well, you still can't use clutter in your apps =)
Jun 03 17:14:58 <lbt> no, they're in my git though
Jun 03 17:15:51 <RST38h> wazd: and it looks like opengl es is out of reach too
Jun 03 17:15:52 <wazd_n800> RST38h, cause clutter can only be used in one session at a time and this session is hildon-desktop
Jun 03 17:16:14 <fiferboy> lbt: I've fixed a couple of the issues I was having
Jun 03 17:16:27 <RST38h> that may be related to the single use ogl es limitation
Jun 03 17:17:11 <Stskeeps> they're working on that
Jun 03 17:17:49 <qwerty12> Read the "Fremantle OpenGL wrapper" thread on -developers
Jun 03 17:18:37 <RST38h> yea...
Jun 03 17:18:51 <RST38h> subway time.
Jun 03 17:20:13 <wazd_n800> RST38h, careful
Jun 03 17:20:32 <wazd_n800> RST38h, storm is  moving towards Moscow)
Jun 03 17:23:21 <vhogemann>  stupid question... what do you use to sync music to you NIT ? Plain system filebrowser, or something more fancy? I'm on OSX and too used to iTunes... What would you recommend?
Jun 03 17:24:11 * mgedmin uses scp
Jun 03 17:24:16 * vhogemann actually on ubuntu now, but all my music is on iTunes
Jun 03 17:24:20 <wazd_n800> I'm on Vista and I use built-in WMP)
Jun 03 17:25:16 <vhogemann> iTunes sucks for not supporting generic MSD
Jun 03 17:25:20 <vhogemann> :-\
Jun 03 17:26:17 <chx> hi. #maemo perilous for my job? I thought SSH and Skype on the go was quite good.
Jun 03 17:26:18 <wazd_n800> theres no other players but the iPod, according to Apple :P
Jun 03 17:26:27 <vhogemann> Yeah...
Jun 03 17:27:12 <vhogemann> I need to find an alternative to iTunes... I would install amarok, but it seems to be too unstable on OSX to be usefull
Jun 03 17:27:52 <vhogemann> What I miss is the automagic sincronization that you can setup with playlists on iTunes
Jun 03 17:28:40 <chx> anywyas, i tried to google but the results was not conclusive --- i need a BT headset that I can use simultaneously with the N810 and the phone. it seems the Plantronics can switch -- there is a Jabra but that's not sure how it owks.
Jun 03 17:28:43 <wazd_n800> I guess there's Winamp for OSX, no?
Jun 03 17:28:45 <chx> anyone with experience?
Jun 03 17:29:13 <vhogemann> wazd_n800, didn't checked Winamp for a loooooong time
Jun 03 17:29:15 <amr> can't you just make an applescript to copy the files across?
Jun 03 17:29:47 <vhogemann> wazd_n800, I'll look it up
Jun 03 17:29:47 <vhogemann> thx
Jun 03 17:29:47 * vhogemann booting into OSX now
Jun 03 17:29:54 <wazd_n800> chx: well, my Jabra 620 listens a2dp from n800 and answers calls from the phone)
Jun 03 17:30:58 <wazd_n800> btw, have anybody read that Palm Pre will be syncing with iTunes seamlessly?
Jun 03 17:31:36 <wazd_n800> As I've read, Pre just tells iTunes «Hello, I'm an iPod»and that's all
Jun 03 17:31:48 <Stskeeps> DMCA? ;)
Jun 03 17:31:49 <amr> lol
Jun 03 17:31:54 <amr> thats pretty smart
Jun 03 17:32:36 <wazd_n800> And it makes all backups and stuff, just like iPhone would do
Jun 03 17:33:18 <lcuk> would be the sort of thing you could do with permission from the fruity company
Jun 03 17:33:25 <Stskeeps> 10 bucks it would be ruined with a "Update"
Jun 03 17:33:42 <wazd_n800> I wonder if OSS community can make same stuff for Nokia or any other generic player
Jun 03 17:34:17 <Jaffa> No good if consumer syncs DRM AAC and can't play it
Jun 03 17:34:22 <chx> wazd_n800: yeah i read that
Jun 03 17:34:30 <lcuk> well dont nokia phones have the "comes with music" initiative and a store etc - that would be the most likely official source
Jun 03 17:34:36 <chx> wazd_n800: however.... the Pre is unusable until the fall when the GSM version arrives.
Jun 03 17:34:38 <wazd_n800> yep, drm doesn't work on Pre neither
Jun 03 17:34:51 <lcuk> i wouldnt even mind with tht being closed payware "differentiation" :)
Jun 03 17:35:07 <chx> wazd_n800: could hte Jabra work with Skype on N810 and the phone ... same time?
Jun 03 17:35:12 <chx> wazd_n800:  as a headset
Jun 03 17:35:45 <wazd_n800> chx: I doubt.
Jun 03 17:36:31 * chx sniffs
Jun 03 17:36:36 <wazd_n800> the only thing I can advice is to set your headset as default for both devices and always disconnect it after each call
Jun 03 17:37:13 <wazd_n800> when call will arive at the phone - it will automaticaly send it tou your headset
Jun 03 17:37:37 <chx> interesting trick
Jun 03 17:37:49 <chx> this needs a headphone that can disconnect :p
Jun 03 17:37:55 <chx> my current Motorola IMO cant
Jun 03 17:38:35 <wazd_n800> chx: just put bt menu on your phone to the quick button =)
Jun 03 17:40:52 <wazd_n800> I think the only way to keep different headset connections simultaneously is to have 2 bt chips in the headset =)
Jun 03 17:41:22 <chx> please call me an idiot
Jun 03 17:41:34 <chx> but where can i change the quick buttons on a Nokia E51?
Jun 03 17:42:00 * wazd_n800 woners if n900 will support not only A2DP but media buttons profile too
Jun 03 17:42:58 <wazd_n800> chx: I guess in the desktop settings or something. Even my dummy 2630 can do that =)
Jun 03 17:43:57 <luke-jr> I think Nokia won't call it N900 just cuz everyone already is
Jun 03 17:44:23 <wazd_n800> I have a special menu in settings called «quick access menu», and there I can set left and right button to whatever I want
Jun 03 17:45:01 <wazd_n800> luke-jr: I'd rather call it N1
Jun 03 17:45:43 <wazd_n800> luke-jr, cause it seems to be the most advanced device in N-series
Jun 03 17:45:55 <chx> this phone is not the most user friendly
Jun 03 17:46:01 <luke-jr> so was the  N770, N800, and N810 when they came out
Jun 03 17:46:30 <wazd_n800> luke-jr, 770 wasn't N :)
Jun 03 17:46:36 <luke-jr> …
Jun 03 17:47:19 <wazd_n800> luke-jr, and they sucked at camera, gps and gaming (no 3D acceleration)
Jun 03 17:47:36 <chx> To write and send text messages, scroll left.
Jun 03 17:47:37 <chx> To change these shortcuts, select Menu >
Jun 03 17:47:39 <chx> Tools > Settings > General >
Jun 03 17:47:40 <chx> Personalisation > Standby mode > Shortcuts.
Jun 03 17:47:42 <chx> really
Jun 03 17:47:53 <chx> It's only six levels deep.
Jun 03 17:48:13 <wazd_n800> luke-jr, now these flaws are gone, N1 is the king :)
Jun 03 17:49:17 <chx> wazd_n800: yeah but what the price will be :(
Jun 03 17:51:19 <chx> YAY
Jun 03 17:51:26 <chx> my phone just jumped quite some
Jun 03 17:51:30 <chx> Great
Jun 03 17:52:51 <wazd_n800> chx: price wold be around 500 bucks I'm sure
Jun 03 17:54:42 <chx> wazd_n800: why do much less than N97?
Jun 03 17:55:08 <wazd_n800> chx: cause it's not a phone)
Jun 03 17:55:27 <chx> wazd_n800: oh.
Jun 03 17:55:29 <wazd_n800> being a phone is pretty expensive stuff
Jun 03 17:55:34 <chx> yeah i bet
Jun 03 17:56:21 <wazd_n800> and the voice data reciever is not the biggest deal
Jun 03 17:57:04 <wazd_n800> you should register and qualify a phone on the whole bunch of markets
Jun 03 17:57:31 <chx> http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/05/24/exclusive-everything-there-is-to-know-about-nokias-next-tablet/
Jun 03 17:57:39 <chx> We believe this?
Jun 03 17:57:40 <Stskeeps> old though
Jun 03 17:57:41 <chx> Why?
Jun 03 17:58:48 <ShadowJK> there are already 90+ pages about it on tmo?
Jun 03 17:58:55 <chx> are there?
Jun 03 17:59:06 <Stskeeps> "N900 specs revealed"
Jun 03 17:59:29 <wazd_n800> cause I beleive only nokia and my eyes. And eyes of maemo community chaps and gals
Jun 03 17:59:29 <wazd_n800> nokia told there would be no voice, guys told that there's no earpiece where it's supposed to be
Jun 03 17:59:38 <chx> http://search.t-mobile.com/inquiraapp/ui.jsp?ui_mode=question&question_box=maemo
Jun 03 17:59:42 <chx> empty.
Jun 03 17:59:52 <ShadowJK> talk.maemo.org not t-mobile
Jun 03 18:00:06 <chx> this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29151&page=106 ?
Jun 03 18:00:10 <chx> come on
Jun 03 18:00:14 <chx> its just chat
Jun 03 18:00:21 <chx> where its the meat?
Jun 03 18:00:24 <chx> *is
Jun 03 18:00:37 <Stskeeps> wazd_n800: the developer units we saw are fremantle development devices, phone part could really be emulated with headset
Jun 03 18:01:12 <Stskeeps> i know i want whatever they're coming out with however
Jun 03 18:01:53 <ShadowJK> yeah you just need a N810 and a bluetooth phone and you can write the software for phone ;)
Jun 03 18:01:59 <wazd_n800> not being a phone is a good thing for such an overloaded with highest end features device
Jun 03 18:01:59 <wazd_n800> you better pray that it would not be a phone in fact)))
Jun 03 18:03:10 <Jaffa> wazd_n800: Nokia *never* said "no voice"
Jun 03 18:03:37 <chx> Nokia never said ANYTHING
Jun 03 18:03:54 <wazd_n800> Nokia never anything =)
Jun 03 18:04:10 <Jaffa> chx: Nokia said 3G, 5mp camera, OMAP3
Jun 03 18:04:25 <wazd_n800> 3G data they said =)
Jun 03 18:04:31 <chx> Where? When?
Jun 03 18:04:37 <chx> That mobilecrunch is a rumour
Jun 03 18:04:42 <wazd_n800> on the very first keynote
Jun 03 18:04:45 <ShadowJK> did they really say anything? haven't we just been assuming it based on the stuff they put in kernel and sdk? :)
Jun 03 18:04:53 <Jaffa> chx: Last September at OSiMWorld
Jun 03 18:05:29 <Jaffa> wazd_n800: Exact quote: "data is what we're talking about today", but they did only *announce* data
Jun 03 18:05:38 <wazd_n800> jezaschrist!!!!
Jun 03 18:05:46 <Jaffa> ShadowJK: They've said loads
Jun 03 18:05:54 <wazd_n800> armageddon in here!!!111
Jun 03 18:06:08 <ShadowJK> wazd_n800, change channel, it wasn't such a great movie
Jun 03 18:06:37 <wazd_n800> you should see that cloud guys!!!
Jun 03 18:06:44 <wazd_n800> ohmygod!
Jun 03 18:06:54 <chx> Jaffa: URL
Jun 03 18:06:58 <chx> Jaffa: URL? please.
Jun 03 18:07:19 <Jaffa> chx: Google "Maemo 5" and "osim"
Jun 03 18:07:28 <Jaffa> September 2008.
Jun 03 18:07:32 <chx> i did
Jun 03 18:08:24 <Jaffa> I don't know a URL OTTOMH, but I saw it with my own eyes when Ari Jaaksi said it
Jun 03 18:09:28 <Jaffa> ~rx-51
Jun 03 18:09:29 <infobot> it has been said that rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html
Jun 03 18:10:18 <wazd_n800> I'm definitely too young to die!
Jun 03 18:10:50 <Stskeeps> wazd_n800: doomsday? :P
Jun 03 18:10:53 <wazd_n800> it's pitch black and sparkling with lightnings!
Jun 03 18:11:22 <wazd_n800> wait i'll send you a link to the webcam
Jun 03 18:20:32 <Zhilin_n800> http://taganka.cpms.ru/cam.php?cam=6#cam
Jun 03 18:20:46 <Zhilin_n800> live from doomsday xD
Jun 03 18:21:36 <Stskeeps> yeah, you're doomed
Jun 03 18:23:45 <RST38h> moo all
Jun 03 18:33:26 <RST38h> It has the same physical properties as any other normal basketball, but when inserted in a basketball hoop from above, Earth's gravitational pull ceases to function within a rectangle of 16.30 x 31.30 meters, which happens to be the official dimensions of a basketball court.
Jun 03 18:33:43 <Stskeeps> what, the n900?
Jun 03 18:33:44 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 03 18:56:27 <keesj> how much time does it take for a normal person to keep up with tmo?
Jun 03 18:56:44 <keesj> is it like a 10Hours/day job?
Jun 03 18:57:08 <Stskeeps> talk.maemo.org? depends on how deep you go in and how addictive a personality you have
Jun 03 19:02:41 <elninja> Anyone know if there are any scripts for the n810 to help locate the device in the event it's stolen? I'm thinking a script that tries connecting to any open wifi networks, and posting the coordinates to a php script on my site.
Jun 03 19:03:03 <zakkm> elninja: you expect it to get stolen?
Jun 03 19:03:24 <zakkm> whoever steals it would make sure it gets flashed/ is off... a script wouldnt help very much
Jun 03 19:03:27 <elninja> Nope, but it seems like it could easily have some nice functionality for tracking it down if it ever does.
Jun 03 19:03:45 <zakkm> like if you steal a phone, you dont turn it on .. you dont have it on
Jun 03 19:03:54 <chx> Autoposting pics from the webcam on every switch on would be even more useful
Jun 03 19:04:00 <zakkm> you take out simcard/ etc.. and break them
Jun 03 19:04:02 <chx> there have been people caught by such
Jun 03 19:04:40 <zakkm> there'd have to be bad thiefs to be honest
Jun 03 19:05:10 <elninja> zakkm, most thieves are dumb and steal something because they have the opportunity, not because they know what they're doing. I usually boot from an SD card. If I set the default boot to the internal flash, and don't put a password on it, most thieves will probably just turn it on and try to use it.
Jun 03 19:05:11 <chx> most pickpockets are not the sharpest knife in the drawer
Jun 03 19:06:16 <zakkm> like the gps takes what like 10min to lock, and most of time it fails, they'd have to be using it for 10min
Jun 03 19:06:37 <zakkm> and then even after that once you have it, what are you going to do?
Jun 03 19:06:53 <zakkm> thats mine , they stole it? your story over theres
Jun 03 19:07:13 <elninja> Most thieves wouldn't have the data cable or be familiar with the device well enough to flash it. If it works just fine, they probably will try to use it.
Jun 03 19:07:33 <zakkm> you dont have to be familar with the device
Jun 03 19:07:46 <chx> zakkm: my device has my name inside , somewhat hidden
Jun 03 19:07:51 <zakkm> most thieves know theres tracking on most devices, gps's and such
Jun 03 19:08:17 <chx> zakkm: anyone contesting the ownership of it would be in quite a situation to explain how the f* my name got inside.
Jun 03 19:08:18 <zakkm> they wouldnt leave it on, might even have a friend who would know how to flash or soemthing
Jun 03 19:08:37 <zakkm> im just saying its not necessary worth it
Jun 03 19:09:12 <chx> i am new to the n810 -- is there a device pass?
Jun 03 19:09:17 <chx> that would be good
Jun 03 19:09:22 <zakkm> you can set a lock code
Jun 03 19:09:24 <chx> for me, that'd be enough
Jun 03 19:09:31 <zakkm> which cant be reflashed.
Jun 03 19:09:37 <zakkm> and taken away
Jun 03 19:10:04 <zakkm> although they can boot into mer, and use that.. but thats another story hah
Jun 03 19:10:11 <qwerty12_N810> chx: seen how easy it is to read? :)
Jun 03 19:10:24 <chx> hm
Jun 03 19:10:32 <chx> i plan to load sensitive shit on that device
Jun 03 19:10:38 <zakkm> so encrypt it
Jun 03 19:10:42 <chx> like my ssh privkey, email password and such
Jun 03 19:10:49 <zakkm> bad ideaa ;p
Jun 03 19:11:07 <elninja> zakkm, that is always a possibility. however, I have seen a lot of retarded thieves and very few clever ones. If the script sits there unused, it costs me nothing. However, if it is stolen there is still the chance someone might turn it on.
Jun 03 19:11:32 <zakkm> yeah but knowing you have it on there
Jun 03 19:11:41 <elninja> How would they know?
Jun 03 19:11:41 <zakkm> you would probably be more loose with the tablet
Jun 03 19:11:50 <zakkm> oh theres security, its okay if its not secure in my pocket
Jun 03 19:12:14 <zakkm> i dont know the proper name for it
Jun 03 19:12:24 <elninja> I know what you're referring to. A false sense of security.
Jun 03 19:12:30 <zakkm> yeahh
Jun 03 19:12:32 <zakkm> that i think
Jun 03 19:12:49 <zakkm> like right now, you probably guard it with your life sort of thing
Jun 03 19:13:08 <zakkm> lets say the gps worked 100%... you'd think ahh it gets stolen, ill know exactly where it is, i can get it back
Jun 03 19:13:16 <zakkm> i swear to you you wont secure it as much
Jun 03 19:14:01 <zakkm> its not so much a false sense of security, because it truly is security
Jun 03 19:14:31 <zakkm> a false sense of security, is when there isnt any at all, and you think there is
Jun 03 19:14:37 <zakkm> thats a little different
Jun 03 19:15:39 <zakkm> in my opinion anywayss :)
Jun 03 19:20:14 <RST38h> ...controversial decision by Microsoft to block third party filter support in future versions of Windows media player...
Jun 03 19:20:16 <RST38h> what???
Jun 03 19:20:35 <Stskeeps> heh
Jun 03 19:20:41 <Stskeeps> i stopped using WMP years ago
Jun 03 19:20:49 <RST38h> same here
Jun 03 19:20:54 <RST38h> but still
Jun 03 19:20:59 <qwerty12_N810> mpc ftw
Jun 03 19:21:26 <Firebird> youtube ftw
Jun 03 19:21:37 <Noma> spotify ftw
Jun 03 19:21:49 <Noma> (i don't support videos)
Jun 03 19:22:54 <elninja> I would generally agree with that point, but I'm aware of it's limited use and know better than to expect anything out of it. It won't affect whether or not I leave it laying around, since I wouldn't want anyone else using it period and couldn't track it if lost. The script would run under the default OS, while I primarily boot from an external SD card. I just think it would be nice to have an extra safety feature. I've heard of pe
Jun 03 19:22:55 <elninja> ople using software on laptops for the same thing, and I can't see this being any less effective than that. (which i know isn't saying much)
Jun 03 19:23:16 <RST38h> By adding a media player /media center app Mozilla would screw MS really hard =)
Jun 03 19:23:45 <RST38h> elninja: eh?
Jun 03 19:24:43 <elninja> that was to zakkm. lag...
Jun 03 19:35:30 <fiferboy> lbt: I think I have all the kinks worked out.  I will send you the changes.
Jun 03 19:35:38 <lbt> cool
Jun 03 19:35:39 <fiferboy> lbt: Let me know what you think when you get a chance to try it out.
Jun 03 19:35:43 <lbt> will do
Jun 03 19:35:49 <lbt> Antonio was on earlier
Jun 03 19:37:10 <fiferboy> Did you tell him about the finger scrolling progress?
Jun 03 19:39:13 <fiferboy> lbt: I just noticed I can access qabstractscrollarea_d from within QAbstractScrollAreaPrivateScroller
Jun 03 19:40:00 <fiferboy> That would mean assigning far fewer variables in ...PrivateScroller
Jun 03 19:53:47 <lbt> yes
Jun 03 20:04:41 <LiraNuna> anyone seen lcuk
Jun 03 20:05:15 <lcuk> he was around before, have you tried pinging him
Jun 03 20:06:01 <LiraNuna> hehe, have you tried the w32 gcc I sent you?
Jun 03 20:06:03 <fiferboy> lcuk: ping
Jun 03 20:06:32 <lcuk> not yet LiraNuna, ive been upto my eyeballs in autotools on device
Jun 03 20:06:38 <lcuk> and recovering my knackered mmc
Jun 03 20:06:57 <LiraNuna> is there a native gcc on maemo?
Jun 03 20:06:58 <lcuk> pong fiferboy
Jun 03 20:07:01 <lcuk> yeah
Jun 03 20:07:03 <LiraNuna> I can canadian cross it
Jun 03 20:07:06 <LiraNuna> gcc 4.4
Jun 03 20:07:07 <lcuk> ive used it for ages now
Jun 03 20:07:19 <lcuk> 3. something
Jun 03 20:07:26 <LiraNuna> would you want a newer version? :)
Jun 03 20:07:29 <lcuk> its from the sdk
Jun 03 20:07:48 <lcuk> not really, that will come when i get a new device
Jun 03 20:07:57 <lcuk> im happy with the way this one works etc ;)
Jun 03 20:08:58 <LiraNuna> hehe
Jun 03 20:09:02 <lcuk> but the windows version sounds intruiging - i have been generating .c template files for a couple of weeks now from win
Jun 03 20:09:03 <lbt> fiferboy: you can
Jun 03 20:09:12 <lcuk> if i could automatically build them whilst im there it would be cool
Jun 03 20:09:31 <fiferboy> lbt: I can what?
Jun 03 20:09:43 <lbt> access qabstractscrollarea_d from within QAbstractScrollAreaPrivateScroller
Jun 03 20:10:01 <fiferboy> Excellent. That makes life easier.
Jun 03 20:10:45 <lbt> http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Binary_Compatibility_Issues_With_C%2B%2B#Using_a_d-Pointer
Jun 03 20:11:38 <lbt> also when I spoke to Antonio he was very positive about getting it into Qt
Jun 03 20:13:28 <fiferboy> Getting finger scrolling into Qt?
Jun 03 20:14:00 <lbt> yes
Jun 03 20:14:31 <fiferboy> Into just the Hildon build, or into the core?
Jun 03 20:14:47 <fiferboy> I wonder if there will be any interest going forward of having finger scrolling available on other platforms
Jun 03 20:48:18 <hub> what's is a decent music player app for the N800?
Jun 03 20:53:26 <lardman> hub: built in one...?
Jun 03 20:53:40 <hub> lardman: I said decent.
Jun 03 20:53:44 <hub> that exclude that one
Jun 03 20:53:45 <lardman> lol
Jun 03 20:53:51 <lardman> what do you need extras?
Jun 03 20:53:59 <hub> that it actually find my music
Jun 03 20:54:04 <hub> and support Ogg metadata
Jun 03 20:54:11 <hub> and that is UI be actually useful
Jun 03 20:54:16 <lardman> ah, the wonders of ogg
Jun 03 20:54:28 <lardman> that I don't know then, sorry
Jun 03 20:54:52 <hub> if only the source was available, I could attempt to salvage it
Jun 03 20:54:54 <lardman> I've grown to love the built in one, as I use mp3s, and as everything else sucks juice
Jun 03 20:55:07 <lardman> hub: yep, 'tis true
Jun 03 20:55:24 <hub> I don't care about juice
Jun 03 20:55:28 <hub> it is on AC all the time
Jun 03 20:55:49 <lardman> try something like Canola, it should be able to use an mplayer backend
Jun 03 20:56:03 <lardman> and I guess it can parse the ogg metadata too, but I don't know
Jun 03 20:58:54 <hub> I guess I'll see if that confirm what I think of the use of Python
Jun 03 20:59:16 <hub> last time I tried to start a python app on Maemo I waited forever
Jun 03 20:59:28 <hub> and I thought that AbiWord was already bloated ;-)
Jun 03 20:59:55 <lardman> canola isn't too bad, but it kills your battery
Jun 03 21:00:07 <lardman> which isn't a problem for you
Jun 03 21:00:19 <hub> and the RAM
Jun 03 21:00:23 <hub> which is a problem
Jun 03 21:00:41 <lardman> yeah, I don't tend to do other stuff at the same time, so I wouldn't know
Jun 03 21:01:38 <lcuk> mafw is coming soon :) expect 1000000000001 new media players..
Jun 03 21:01:54 <lardman> all good
Jun 03 21:02:00 <lardman> just need some new hw to go with it ;)
Jun 03 21:02:13 <lcuk> indeed, was tempting to run at weekend :O
Jun 03 21:02:21 <lcuk> lbt tried to pocket one as well i believe lol
Jun 03 21:02:35 <lbt> yeah... :(
Jun 03 21:02:47 <lardman> :D
Jun 03 21:03:12 <hub> *sigh*
Jun 03 21:03:58 <hub> GPE Audio Player get a fail :-(
Jun 03 21:06:30 * lardman hates having to finish writing reports the day before he goes on honeymoon
Jun 03 21:06:36 <lardman> not that it happens often
Jun 03 21:07:01 <hub> finishing reports?
Jun 03 21:07:21 <lardman> yeah, yearly reporting stuff
Jun 03 21:08:13 <hub> so the honeymoon happens more often? ;-)
Jun 03 21:08:49 <lardman> lol, no
Jun 03 21:10:44 <lcuk> lbt - i just thought this was you until i looked up!
Jun 03 21:10:48 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7aYuJHH3Do
Jun 03 21:11:55 <lardman> lcuk apparently has Nokia related YouTube videos on constant shuffle in the background....
Jun 03 21:12:02 <lardman> ;)
Jun 03 21:12:20 <lcuk> ciroip, mentioned him - i started listening whilst coding
Jun 03 21:12:23 <lbt> heh... no sound
Jun 03 21:12:32 <lcuk> god lbt - its your voice!
Jun 03 21:12:35 <lcuk> and ive just left you
Jun 03 21:12:43 <lcuk> :D
Jun 03 21:12:54 <lbt> hey.... I'm using it
Jun 03 21:13:50 <lcuk> heh
Jun 03 21:14:04 <lcuk> your hair has grown significantly since the weekend aswell
Jun 03 21:15:31 <Stskeeps> lcuk: that's a massive beard
Jun 03 21:18:36 <ciroip> Wibree, Nokia's new standard, to replace Bluetooth
Jun 03 21:20:09 <hub> looks like Media Box at least cut it
Jun 03 21:20:13 <hub> to some extent
Jun 03 21:20:14 <lardman> too much to do, /me grabs a glass of wine and hits the sofa
Jun 03 21:27:12 <Proteous> goddamnit nokia, ship me my phone plz
Jun 03 21:31:05 <RST38h> Ho ho ho
Jun 03 21:31:11 <RST38h> Found a memory corruption
Jun 03 21:40:28 <Proteous> you can't remember what you had for dinner last night?
Jun 03 21:41:53 <hub> will mafw support Ogg-Vorbis?
Jun 03 21:44:21 <Jaffa> hub: MAFW doesn't "support" any fformat AIUI; it provides playlistt mgmt and a player API over gstreamer
Jun 03 21:45:18 <hub> so will they support Ogg-Vorbis by default too?
Jun 03 21:46:08 <Jaffa> Do you mean, "will Nokia ship Ogg Vorbis support for gstreamer in a Maemo 5 device?"?
Jun 03 21:46:57 <Jaffa> If so, I dunno - there's an issue for it in bugzilla (may have been closed as community provided support for diablo)
Jun 03 21:48:15 <hub> Jaffa: the issue is still open
Jun 03 21:48:17 <hub> most votes
Jun 03 21:48:23 <hub> most voted
Jun 03 21:48:28 <hub> and in the bug jar everytime
Jun 03 21:49:56 <hub> I guess the answer is no
Jun 03 21:50:00 <hub> or it would have been closed
Jun 03 21:50:53 <Jaffa> Fair enough
Jun 03 21:57:55 <lardman|drinking> hub: as all audio decoders are going to run on the ARM, there should be no real issue
Jun 03 21:58:26 <hub> lardman|drinking: as long as it is not shipped by default, it is an issue
Jun 03 21:58:28 <lardman|drinking> I hope/trust that adding in support for the meta-data will also be easier with MAFW too
Jun 03 21:58:53 <lardman> well, there are supposed problems with shipping ogg support
Jun 03 21:58:56 <lardman> legal ones
Jun 03 21:59:34 <Jaffa> hub: Why? The device is supposed to be enhanced by installing extra stuff. As long as there are ways (gstreamer, MAFW) of integrating seamlesssly...
Jun 03 21:59:45 <lardman> or at least that's my understanding of why work was stopped on the dsp tasks for the n8x0 devices
Jun 03 21:59:46 <hub> lardman: that's why they ship it with Navicore and other stuff
Jun 03 22:00:06 <hub> Jaffa: that's a foolish argument
Jun 03 22:00:11 <Jaffa> It's not like Aunt Jane is going to have a library of OV music and be incapable of opening the App Mgr
Jun 03 22:00:12 <hub> Jaffa: it is supposed to work as is
Jun 03 22:00:14 <lardman> don;t ask me! :)
Jun 03 22:00:42 <lardman> hub: most people use mp3.
Jun 03 22:00:42 <Jaffa> hub: "it"?
Jun 03 22:00:50 <hub> Jaffa: the device
Jun 03 22:00:55 <hub> lardman: and?
Jun 03 22:01:04 <hub> lardman: most people don't even need the device
Jun 03 22:01:07 <Jaffa> And it does work for what it's advertisied to do
Jun 03 22:01:49 <lardman> hub: well, I'd like to launch rockets with the device, but I bet it won't come ready to do that out of the box: catering for the majority
Jun 03 22:01:53 <Jaffa> I don't complain that netcat isn't shipped as std, I just install it. Same for Gnumeric, same for MSN in IM system, same for...
Jun 03 22:02:06 <hub> lardman: it is a chicken and egg problem. if there is no support, there is no reason to use
Jun 03 22:02:28 <lardman> yeah fair enough, but that philosphy, not really relevant here
Jun 03 22:02:29 <hub> lardman: so far the logic is flawed
Jun 03 22:02:37 <lardman> not at all
Jun 03 22:02:41 <hub> anyway
Jun 03 22:02:49 <lardman> what % of users will use ogg, put it like that
Jun 03 22:03:13 <hub> lardman: again chicken and egg problem
Jun 03 22:03:25 <lardman> I fully agree that it should be nice and easy to add support mind you, I just don't think that it should necessarily come ready to go out fo the box
Jun 03 22:03:26 <hub> lardman: maybe we should all buy an iphone
Jun 03 22:03:33 <hub> the % that can't run itunes is SMALL
Jun 03 22:03:47 <Jaffa> hub: Why should Nokia solve the chicken & egg problem?
Jun 03 22:03:56 <lardman> difference between can't/don't and can/do of course
Jun 03 22:04:09 <hub> Jaffa: because in that case it is support from device that will allow the increase
Jun 03 22:04:38 <hub> while it is true that the Jobs-Pod undermine the effort
Jun 03 22:04:49 <lardman> hub: deciding to use ogg is a choice really, and if someone decides to go that route, I agree it should be easy to use it
Jun 03 22:04:58 <hub> but anyway we disagree I'm fine with that
Jun 03 22:05:00 <hub> I was just asking
Jun 03 22:05:00 <Jaffa> And what is the business case for Nokia increasing the adoption of OV, if they provide mechanisms for the interested community to solve the problem?
Jun 03 22:05:36 <lardman> no, I don't disagree, I tried quite hard to port tremor to the DSP, I'm just realistic about what we should expect, and I don't use ogg ;)
Jun 03 22:07:12 <hub> that's probably why I haven't bought a music player
Jun 03 22:07:15 <hub> so far
Jun 03 22:07:35 <hub> (I didn't pay for the n800, nor the 770)
Jun 03 22:08:14 <hub> getting a 810 was tempting but the Ogg vorbis b.s. refreined me from giving money to nokia for that
Jun 03 22:08:30 <hub> anyway
Jun 03 22:08:51 <lardman> I'd be interested to know if the legal issue still stands; if not, I agree with you that a vorbis gstreamer task should either ship, or be automatically installed when a user wants to play .oggs
Jun 03 22:08:57 <hub> I was just try to gather some info
Jun 03 22:09:00 <hub> not start a flamewar
Jun 03 22:09:24 <lardman> nah don;t worry about that, we're constantly flameproof aren't we Jaffa :)
Jun 03 22:09:25 <hub> lardman: the legal issue does not stand. but coming from one of the stakeholder of patent on MPEG* is not surprising
Jun 03 22:09:56 <hub> lardman: the FUD that Nokia employees did on the HTML-WHATWG about the HTML5 video and audio support is a proof
Jun 03 22:09:58 <Jaffa> lardman: indeed :)
Jun 03 22:10:05 <lardman> hub: there was some legal justification, an even if it probably won't stand, Nokia's a big company and liable to be sued
Jun 03 22:10:24 <hub> lardman: as long as the proof is not given (give the patent #) it is void
Jun 03 22:10:31 <hub> lardman: it is just gratuitous
Jun 03 22:10:39 <lardman> your view is shortsighted
Jun 03 22:10:47 <hub> lardman: no it is not
Jun 03 22:10:48 <Jaffa> Also, one lawyer's interpretation of risk/law doesn't neccesarily correspond to Nokia's laywers' ;-)
Jun 03 22:10:59 <lardman> realistically for a bif company, they want to look at value provided for a given risk
Jun 03 22:11:02 <hub> they do ship it
Jun 03 22:11:07 <hub> really
Jun 03 22:11:08 <lardman> I guess ogg doesn't cut it there
Jun 03 22:11:25 <hub> check "navicore" which is from Nokia
Jun 03 22:11:26 <lardman> yes, but that shipping wasn't there software
Jun 03 22:11:28 <hub> it has Ogg playback
Jun 03 22:11:32 <hub> it is Nokia
Jun 03 22:11:32 <lardman> s/there/their
Jun 03 22:11:42 <lardman> wasn't when it was written mind you
Jun 03 22:11:50 <hub> and?
Jun 03 22:12:00 <hub> it just proof that the risk isn't
Jun 03 22:12:08 <lardman> it also encapsulates the playback, which probably mitagates the risk
Jun 03 22:12:08 <hub> because it is the same
Jun 03 22:12:55 <lardman> I think providing codecs to allow people to play their own ogg files, assuming there is some patent problem, would be worse than using it in some inherited software
Jun 03 22:12:55 <Jaffa> There are three possible reasons for no OOB OV playback in gstreamer (and hence Media Player): 1) Nokia don't see it worth their investment, but have no other reasons (practical)
Jun 03 22:13:17 <Jaffa> 2) Nokia as a corp has a policy of FUD against OV (fundamental)
Jun 03 22:13:19 <hub> lardman: nope
Jun 03 22:13:45 <hub> Jaffa: 2) is the most probable. as 1) has even been solved for them
Jun 03 22:13:54 <Jaffa> 3) Nokia's laywers don't want to expose OV to end users for perceived legal reasons (legal)
Jun 03 22:14:08 <lardman> I go for 3)
Jun 03 22:14:30 <Jaffa> hub: Community writing code is a long way from shipping and supporting it as part of a consumer product
Jun 03 22:14:52 <hub> 3 and 2 are the same
Jun 03 22:15:01 <lardman> no
Jun 03 22:15:21 * Jaffa would order 3, 1, 2. Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by well, anything
Jun 03 22:15:25 <lardman> one is a choice to not support open source, the other is a problem with possible exposure from a legal threat
Jun 03 22:16:13 <hub> Jaffa: Nokia employees comment on the HTML-WHATWG for HTML5 prove that 2 is on top
Jun 03 22:16:14 <lardman> large companies' legal departments are, after all, somewhat slow on the uptake
Jun 03 22:16:34 <lardman> what is HTML-WHATWG?
Jun 03 22:16:40 * lardman goes to google
Jun 03 22:16:48 <hub> the working group for HTML5
Jun 03 22:17:08 <hub> maybe I got the acronym letters wromng
Jun 03 22:17:11 <lardman> can you give me a linky to the comment please?
Jun 03 22:17:12 <hub> let me find the link
Jun 03 22:17:20 <lardman> nah the letters are right
Jun 03 22:17:26 <hub> http://www.whatwg.org/
Jun 03 22:17:32 <Jaffa> hub: Did he say "It is Nokia policy to undermine Ogg at any opportunity"? If not, you're expressing your intepretation as fact
Jun 03 22:18:09 <hub> Jaffa: he said he was opposed to the specification of Ogg Vorbis/Theora as a baseline codec for HTML5
Jun 03 22:18:17 <hub> bottom line there is none
Jun 03 22:18:19 <lardman> ah, this is about the standardisation of media formats stuff?
Jun 03 22:18:24 <hub> Apple added their own
Jun 03 22:18:37 <hub> lardman: about HTML and in that case the video and audio support
Jun 03 22:18:55 <hub> but coming from Apple, not surprising either
Jun 03 22:19:24 <Jaffa> hub: That doesn't mean Nokia have a policy of FUD against OV/T; it means he saw there were reasons (one of the 3 above) to not mandate it as a baseline in HTML5
Jun 03 22:19:49 <lardman> anyway we're talking about vorbis really aren't we, not ogg as that's just the container
Jun 03 22:20:01 <Jaffa> lardman: *nods*
Jun 03 22:20:18 <hub> Jaffa: their whitepaper called Ogg-Vorbis "proprietary"
Jun 03 22:20:35 <lardman> yes, I have also heard about that
Jun 03 22:20:38 <hub> lardman: I said Ogg Vorbis / Theora
Jun 03 22:20:56 <Jaffa> hub: true
Jun 03 22:20:57 <lardman> due to some hanging legal threats to the allegedly un-patent-encombered format
Jun 03 22:21:18 <hub> also as the risk, it should be noted that even MPEG-4 there is no guarantee from the MPEG-LA that all the patent needed are licensed in the package
Jun 03 22:21:23 <hub> which open the same risk
Jun 03 22:21:43 <hub> so the argument does not stick either
Jun 03 22:21:48 <hub> IANAL (btw)
Jun 03 22:21:59 <Jaffa> Similar risk, not necessarily same consequence
Jun 03 22:22:02 <lardman> ah, but the companies pay someone to license the patent/sw. and that company takes on the risk then
Jun 03 22:22:10 <hub> Jaffa: why not the same consequence?
Jun 03 22:23:16 <lardman> therefore any legal challenge/compensation claim would consume the licensor first, giving some protection
Jun 03 22:23:33 <Jaffa> If there's a risk of getting sued for patent A, and a risk of getting sued for patent B - the consequnce is the monetary exposure; which could be different depending on whoowns A & B, and to what relationships/counter-patents you have with them
Jun 03 22:24:28 <Jaffa> hub:Nokia aren't actively blocking us doing OV, so I think it could be a fine device for you, if you want mobile OV
Jun 03 22:25:02 <hub> Jaffa: given how bad is the player on the N800 it surely didn't convince me
Jun 03 22:25:03 <lardman> the other factor, re exposure to suing, is that lots of companies have licensed mp3 from Fauenhoffer (or whateve they are called) and not been sued, so it's a fair bet that Nokia won't be either
Jun 03 22:25:23 <hub> lardman: anybody can sue anybody.
Jun 03 22:25:31 <lardman> whereas using the non-licensed vorbis codec means anyone could sue you
Jun 03 22:25:48 <lardman> hub: not really, it would be pushed to the licensor
Jun 03 22:26:23 <hub> lardman: so you want somebody to ask money for Ogg-Vorbis when there is no patent associated?
Jun 03 22:26:27 <Jaffa> hub: Right, but that's a seperate reason to "no OV OOtB"
Jun 03 22:26:29 <hub> lardman: maybe I should ask mone then
Jun 03 22:26:32 <lardman> and it's the fact that no-one has tried yet, despite the big and tasty fish using it
Jun 03 22:26:40 <hub> but like MPEG-LA, no guarantee
Jun 03 22:26:55 <hub> lardman: read the licensing agreement and the disclaimers associated
Jun 03 22:27:19 <lardman> I'm not trying to persuade you, just giving you some reasons that may indicate why it happened
Jun 03 22:28:04 <hub> I was not asking excuse
Jun 03 22:28:18 <hub> I was just asking, from people who have info, if it would be supported
Jun 03 22:28:26 <hub> you all tried to find excuse
Jun 03 22:28:32 <hub> I couldn't care less
Jun 03 22:28:44 <lardman> I believe it will not be supported out of the box
Jun 03 22:29:01 <lardman> but, I think it should be easy to add the components to make it work
Jun 03 22:29:12 <lardman> i.e. more easily than with the current player
Jun 03 22:29:19 <lardman> c'est tout
Jun 03 22:29:21 <Jaffa> hub: I'm sure if you gave Nokia lots of money in a big contract, they'd tell you - under NDA - if it's reason 2 or 3. If it's purely practical, someone from Nokia may answer
Jun 03 22:29:41 <hub> Jaffa: money, things I don't have
Jun 03 22:30:16 <Jaffa> hub: asking a general question on IRC isn't necessairly going to get the attention of a Nokian in a position to answer.
Jun 03 22:30:31 <hub> I didn't ask for the excuse
Jun 03 22:30:44 <hub> I asked whether it was there or not
Jun 03 22:30:57 <hub> but that I have had the answer a while back
Jun 03 22:31:19 <Jaffa> Yeah, which is "we don't know; probably not"
Jun 03 22:31:30 <lardman> I quote:
Jun 03 22:31:32 <lardman> [lardman|drinking] hub: as all audio decoders are going to run on the ARM, there should be no real issue
Jun 03 22:31:32 <lardman>  <hub> lardman|drinking: as long as it is not shipped by default, it is an issue
Jun 03 22:31:43 <lardman> and so it started
Jun 03 22:31:48 <Jaffa> Then we explained - with the benefit of our experience - why the 'not' miight be
Jun 03 22:31:49 <hub> lardman: true and I stick to that opinion
Jun 03 22:32:06 <lardman> we've tried to tell you why we think it's happened, nothing more or less
Jun 03 22:32:39 <hub> *why we think* <- speculation
Jun 03 22:32:43 <hub> as gratuitous as mine :-)
Jun 03 22:32:47 <lardman> indeed
Jun 03 22:33:03 <lardman> but I've spoken to more people than you have related to ogg vorbis on the Nokia tablets
Jun 03 22:33:19 <Jaffa> hub: Excpet you used phrases like "prove"
Jun 03 22:34:34 <Jaffa> Which doesn't imply opinion. And "It is an issue" isn't the same as "It''s an issue for me, as I require vendors for consumer electronics to ship Ogg vorbis support out-of-the-box; rather than as a third-party add-on available through the pkging system"
Jun 03 22:36:05 * lardman is more interested to know if the French will try to find that black box
Jun 03 22:36:29 <lardman> and is crossing his fingers it'd not an Airbus on Friday... ;)
Jun 03 22:36:49 * Jaffa been  on a few cross-Atlantic A330s
Jun 03 22:36:57 <Jaffa> lardman: congrats btw!
Jun 03 22:37:04 <lardman> Thanks :)
Jun 03 22:37:26 <lardman> amazed the weather held out actually :)
Jun 03 22:38:28 <lardman> lol @ France's minister responsible for transportation: "The sea currents are powerful that far down" as justification for why the black box may not be recovered
Jun 03 22:40:12 <lardman> Anyway hub, when the next device turns up I'll be more than happy to help with adding ogg-vorbis support if it's not already included (which I doubt)
Jun 03 22:40:54 <hub> lardman: I doubt I'll buy it
Jun 03 22:41:17 <lardman> Do Archos support ogg out of the box?
Jun 03 22:42:24 <wazd> it supports it for money
Jun 03 22:42:35 <lardman> ah ok, interesting
Jun 03 22:42:59 <lardman> building up a counter-sue fund perhaps :)
Jun 03 22:42:59 <wazd> wanna new wallpaper - pay, wanna new format - pay :)
Jun 03 22:43:09 <lardman> yeah, I knew that :)
Jun 03 22:48:32 <lardman> hey derf
Jun 03 22:48:45 <lardman> just missed one of your favoutite topics, vorbis support :)
Jun 03 22:49:06 * lardman needs a spell checker on his irc client
Jun 03 22:50:10 <mavhc> you need spellie
Jun 03 22:50:39 <lardman> for xchat though I guess?
Jun 03 22:55:44 <mavhc> just write a Wave IRC extension
Jun 03 22:57:04 * LiraNuna is compiling gcc4.4 targeting maemo running on maemo
Jun 03 23:02:55 <lardman> night all
Jun 03 23:33:01 * GAN8001 chuckles.
Jun 03 23:33:11 <GAN8001> Ogg provides endless entertainment.
Jun 03 23:36:09 <Proteous> OGG SMASH
Jun 03 23:37:10 <jaska> heh
Jun 03 23:42:57 <GAN8001> Geneven well and truly has lost it.
Jun 03 23:51:36 <GAN8001> keesj, about an 1 a day.
Jun 03 23:51:42 <GAN8001> Most of the stuff you can skim or skip.
Jun 04 00:13:24 <Bobbe> I know this is not maemo-related, but I'm hoping somebody will have had the same problem here. Is there anything I can do to reduce my wifi latency?
Jun 04 00:13:59 <hub> Bobbe: move closer to the AP? ;-)
Jun 04 00:14:00 <Bobbe> and about geneven, you mean the n900 specs thread?
Jun 04 00:14:29 <Bobbe> I'm 2 feet away from it hub. It feels that there's always a 1-2 second gap before the N800 makes a request and the connection icon lights up
Jun 04 00:14:33 <Bobbe> I dunno
Jun 04 00:14:39 <hub> Bobbe: dude, that was a joke
Jun 04 00:14:48 <Bobbe> hub, lol
Jun 04 00:14:49 <hub> there was a smiley
Jun 04 00:15:08 <Bobbe> my bad, completely missed the smiley
Jun 04 00:15:23 <Bobbe> and it does get a little slower when I'm a few meters away
Jun 04 00:15:29 <Bobbe> but that's not a lot lol
Jun 04 00:15:48 <Bobbe> I'm guessing it's my crappy router
Jun 04 00:16:18 <Bobbe> but I see these videos of incredibly responsive wifis. Like the guy clicks and it's loading the page already
Jun 04 00:16:31 <Bobbe> I keep looking at that 'connecting' scrollbar coming and going, coming and going
Jun 04 00:16:39 <Bobbe> my E71 doesn't suffer from that
Jun 04 00:16:51 <Bobbe> I connect to it, open a website, bam!
Jun 04 00:16:53 <Bobbe> there
Jun 04 00:17:11 <Bobbe> (by bam! I mean as much bam as I can get with my 2mbps connection)
Jun 04 01:58:12 <chx> so...
Jun 04 01:58:57 <chx> I have my N810 for just a few days. I go to London Drugs today to buy a blender, the guy in the store points at a Black & Decker, recommending it. I whip out the N810, check Amazon.com it has a single star ... I bought another :p
Jun 04 02:02:44 <GAN800> Who doesn't love a tablet?
Jun 04 02:12:05 <chx> GAN800: the guy who tried to sell me a 65 bucks blender and i walked with a 45 bucks one instead?
Jun 04 02:12:16 <GAN800> Ehehe
Jun 04 02:12:39 <chx> come on, this one ground up almonds
Jun 04 02:13:39 <chx> unless i am ready to shell out 400 usd (the above was cad) for the blendtec total i will be hard pressed to find a better one
Jun 04 02:16:08 <chx> http://www.seriouseats.com/talk/2007/09/need-reccos-for-the-strongest-blender-ever.html read the comments, lol
Jun 04 02:22:31 <xander21c> Hi
Jun 04 02:23:27 <xander21c> kind of need help with n800
Jun 04 02:29:59 <xander21c> anyone there?
Jun 04 02:44:52 <chx> xander21c: maybe if you would ask your question.
Jun 04 02:45:08 <xander21c> ok
Jun 04 02:45:14 <xander21c> I got a n800
Jun 04 02:45:42 <xander21c> i will like to make an app start right after i finish booting
Jun 04 02:45:50 <xander21c> up
Jun 04 02:47:32 <xander21c> chx?
Jun 04 02:49:00 <chx> xander21c: http://tinyurl.com/oqcrvk
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 04 02:59:58 2009