**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 07 04:18:13 2009 Jul 07 05:56:36 Hello all, I want to use C++ with C. For this i am including a C++ header in a C file. When simply compiling without adding the header in the C file, it is ok. But when including the header.. it is giving the following error: Jul 07 05:56:53 "TestClass.h:4: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'TestClass' Jul 07 05:56:54 TestClass.h:12: warning: ISO C does not allow extra ';' outside of a function Jul 07 05:56:54 " Jul 07 05:57:13 Any body any idea please! Jul 07 05:58:04 In file included from hello-world-home.c:25: Jul 07 05:58:05 TestClass.h:4: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'TestClass' Jul 07 05:58:05 TestClass.h:12: warning: ISO C does not allow extra ';' outside of a function Jul 07 06:04:24 mornin' maemo Jul 07 06:21:23 how to add a drawing_area into the plugin area of input method plugin ? Jul 07 06:22:03 The drawing_area is a GtkWidget. Jul 07 06:23:59 Is there anybody who is familar with it? could you give me a tip? Jul 07 06:31:27 Jul 07 06:42:42 * timsamoff wants to zzz. Jul 07 06:56:34 timsamoff: Skipping sleep today? :) Jul 07 07:18:48 morning all Jul 07 07:19:47 moonin Jul 07 07:19:56 sept conference still a go? Jul 07 07:27:58 pupnik: No? It is in October? Jul 07 07:28:00 October 9-10-11 Jul 07 07:28:05 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009 Jul 07 07:29:17 ahh ty Jul 07 07:29:27 http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0907/8c/80ea3e5883f8.jpg <- hehe, I'm still lovin' my logo :( Jul 07 07:29:36 it is possible to rent a house or boat for a few days Jul 07 07:29:48 might be cheaper / more fun than hotel Jul 07 07:33:43 i need a pixel shader xpert Jul 07 07:34:16 pupnik: if you'll find him - send him to me :P Jul 07 07:41:14 Morning, all Jul 07 07:41:24 moo Jul 07 07:45:47 Jaffa: heya Jul 07 07:46:03 Hello all, I want to use C++ with C. For this i am including a C++ header in a C file. When simply compiling without adding the header in the C file, it is ok. But when including the header.. it is giving the following error: Jul 07 07:46:12 "TestClass.h:4: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'TestClass' Jul 07 07:46:19 TestClass.h:12: warning: ISO C does not allow extra ';' outside of a function Jul 07 07:47:09 In file included from hello-world-home.c:25: TestClass.h:4: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'TestClass'TestClass.h:12: warning: ISO C does not allow extra ';' outside of a function Jul 07 07:47:20 any idea..? Jul 07 07:49:43 morn Jul 07 07:50:24 moin Jul 07 07:52:56 when I connect to an network the there are many python-instances that make a lot of load... Jul 07 07:54:42 murrayc..! Jul 07 07:55:25 sarower: I suggest you ask the question on the maemo-developers mailinglist or talk.maemo.org. Jul 07 07:55:32 Stskeeps: heya Jul 07 07:55:54 sarower: No need to keep repeating yourself, as there are obviously no people here with the answer for you. Jul 07 07:55:55 X-Fade: Ok thank you Jul 07 07:56:15 X-Fade: Ok i am so sorry! Jul 07 07:56:26 hi Jul 07 07:57:15 has anyone of you worked with MAFW? Jul 07 08:06:57 Moo all Jul 07 08:07:36 i didnt know you could mix c++ with c Jul 07 08:07:43 hi RST38h Jul 07 08:07:47 RST38h: hooah Jul 07 08:07:47 morning Jul 07 08:07:53 pupnik: You can, carefully. Jul 07 08:08:00 hey wazd, pupnik Jul 07 08:52:57 * RST38h yawns Jul 07 08:53:06 Anything new and exciting? Jul 07 09:24:00 is there anyway to import a GTK glade designed interface layout and make a baseline qt project from it Jul 07 09:24:31 something that might allow creative gtk coders to not have to start completely from scratch.. Jul 07 09:26:13 lcuk: No Jul 07 09:26:39 GTK and Qt qre completely separate entities, although there was some work on sharing the themes between two Jul 07 09:27:22 they might be seperate - but the gtk layout file says "make a window this big, put a checkbox here, a label there and a panel over here" Jul 07 09:28:06 if i can use visual basic in windows to create liq* form layouts i am damned sure someone could take the XML given out by glade and at least give a baseline template qt app out the other side Jul 07 09:29:44 lcuk: Why don't you simply write a converter? Jul 07 09:29:57 lcuk: Shouldn't be hard to do in PERL or something similar Jul 07 09:30:16 i dont know perl and ive got my own stuff to do, i work with what i understand Jul 07 09:30:56 and as a vb developer i used the vb addins model and introspection to tell me what to create Jul 07 09:31:34 damn, Michael Bay really knows homw to make things awesome :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiHsxQJ9ZOo Jul 07 09:32:07 lcuk: Actually... "Qt Designer has been tested with Glade files up to version 0.6.0 and might work with later versions as well." Jul 07 09:32:17 lcuk: http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/designer-manual-9.html and search for "Glade" there Jul 07 09:33:10 good, so maybe that could do with some hilighting :) if people are being made to uproot themselves, better to give themselves a familiar picture on the otherside Jul 07 09:35:13 wazd: Have you seen the classic creepy Verizon commercial though? Jul 07 09:35:48 RST38h: nope, but I'm sure it's Bay that made it awesome :) Jul 07 09:37:56 wazd: Actually, the whole commercial was animated Jul 07 09:38:14 wazd: With a huge hairy monster chasing the customer and then hugging him Jul 07 09:38:37 Given that it was the Phone Company commercial... Jul 07 10:04:10 Oh my, Sabbath Elevator is really Epic :) Jul 07 10:22:27 When i am compiling a C file by g++ it is not working. Do any body knows....? why? Jul 07 10:24:37 But if i compile by gcc it works fine! Jul 07 10:27:29 hi murrayc Jul 07 10:31:10 sarower, it helps to know what errors its throwing up, and isnt g++ the c++ compiler Jul 07 10:33:11 lcuk: No error creating but not executing Jul 07 10:33:41 lcuk: yes g++ is c ++ compilker Jul 07 10:34:11 tell you what :) pastebin your entire console log for building and running the app and maybe someone will post some insight Jul 07 10:34:45 since you are building with c++ doesnt it make sense the g++ would be expecting a c++ entry point instead of a generic c main() Jul 07 10:34:54 * lcuk doesnt know tho Jul 07 10:36:44 lcuk: yes you are right and most probably it is the problem and g++ is not getting the entry point as it is applet....for maemo Jul 07 10:37:39 why not use gcc for making your obvious c thing and forget all about g++ in this instance (unless you have overriding specific needs and which you will need to port more Jul 07 10:39:12 lcuk: cause i want to use c++ user defined class (header) and c++ things from this file. Jul 07 10:45:09 then you are going to have to readup on how to develop a c++ application and how to integrate standard c code into it Jul 07 10:45:39 its certainly not maemo specific and its fairly routine to do Jul 07 10:50:19 lcuk: Integrating C++ into C code.... Jul 07 10:50:41 lcuk: not c into C++.... Jul 07 10:51:01 lbt: ping? Jul 07 10:51:23 not directly possible i believe - UNLESS you can use shared libs - then each .so file can be written in its own language and they all use standard ld/elf entry points Jul 07 10:52:27 What size SD cards do we need to put maemo on beagleboards? Jul 07 10:52:52 1gb or so? Jul 07 10:53:02 sarower: Please remember what you promised Jul 07 10:53:13 lcuk: I think the answer for him was just "compile it as C++". He's confused. Jul 07 10:53:44 murrayc " When i am compiling a C file by g++ it is not working. Do any body knows....? why?" Jul 07 10:53:46 Stskeeps: Cheers. Jul 07 10:53:53 and i answered that Jul 07 10:53:58 lcuk: He should probably just call it .cc instea dof .c. Jul 07 10:54:10 lcuk: OK. Thanks. Jul 07 10:54:32 murrayc: going to try out the new HIM on beagleboard? Jul 07 10:56:08 No, it's not related to HIM. Jul 07 10:56:21 The beagleboards are just to play with. Jul 07 10:56:32 murrayc: The answer is "read C/C++ programming books" Jul 07 10:56:44 True. Jul 07 10:57:05 alright - you said you had issues with HIM in the SDK, hence my question :) Jul 07 11:00:13 Stskeeps: The HIM library has undefined symbols right now and I get no response from the developers. Jul 07 11:00:32 Stskeeps: Well, it will have undefined symbols when you see the next version. Jul 07 11:02:46 lovely Jul 07 11:24:10 X-Fade: Don't now when you pinged me, but... Yes, I didn't get much sleep. I've got a contract where I'm working with some developers in India. Yawn. Jul 07 11:55:23 timsamoff, hi Jul 07 11:55:32 has anyone got the updated url string to get google sat working in maemo mapper again? Jul 07 11:55:52 Andy80: Hello... Sorry, dealing with a grumpy little boy this morning. :) Jul 07 11:56:56 was the sprint meeting already btw? Jul 07 11:57:43 Stskeeps: Not until 13:30 UTC... But, maybe not at all. Jul 07 11:57:50 timsamoff, I'm in a tea-pause now :) Jul 07 11:58:13 Andy80, u german? Jul 07 11:58:18 Andy80: That's good! :) Jul 07 11:59:49 Andy80: So you made it to work anyway? Jul 07 12:00:09 pupnik_, no, italian, working in Spain :P Jul 07 12:00:21 timsamoff, yes, I'm here in the office Jul 07 12:00:32 Andy80: Good to hear. Jul 07 12:00:35 ok, germans call it a tee-pause Jul 07 12:00:50 didn't know it pupnik_ Jul 07 12:02:30 Jaffa: idea.. since Harmattan will basically turn everything up and down - cleaning everything up, etc, talk to Nokia about higher community involvement in it? Jul 07 12:03:07 Stskeeps: I think that is already the idea. Quim talked about more co-development etc? Jul 07 12:03:43 Did he? Jul 07 12:03:57 *nod* we should look into it for sure.. i mean, we are starting to mobilize quite a few people in Mer Jul 07 12:04:25 and it sounds like Harmattan has many of the same goals Jul 07 12:05:32 I think we will see more about that when Fremantle finally ships. But yeah. Jul 07 12:05:35 yeah Jul 07 12:05:44 work has already started though - glib 2.20 and such Jul 07 12:05:53 which looks a hell lot saner in harmattan Jul 07 12:08:20 :) Jul 07 12:08:31 which gcc is used? Jul 07 12:08:43 last i saw, gcc4? :P Jul 07 12:09:52 You know what is the most surprising part? Jul 07 12:09:58 k. lots of work to optimise results for arm still? Jul 07 12:10:10 oFono has not been mentioned among Fremantle components. Jul 07 12:10:33 hmm Jul 07 12:10:43 RST38h: marketing secret still probably Jul 07 12:10:53 Sts: Ah come one, it is an open framework Jul 07 12:11:06 You can look at the source code straight from the CVS Jul 07 12:11:09 RST38h: yeah, i know, but implying that fremantle has it.. :P Jul 07 12:11:35 Hmmm...yes, I see... Phone functionality has never been officially announced Jul 07 12:12:35 It's just a smaller screened, more pocketable device with lots of references in its source code to telephony & GSM. Jul 07 12:12:44 Of *course* it's not a phone Jul 07 12:16:12 timsamoff, what is the channel of the meeting? this or another one? Jul 07 12:19:44 Andy80: #maemo-meeting Jul 07 12:19:51 Andy80 (and everyone): The meeting is held in #maemo-meeting. Jul 07 12:19:56 Jaffa: :p Jul 07 12:20:22 don't know if I'll able to discuss, but I'll try to follow a bit Jul 07 12:20:44 there's a maemo meeting? :o Jul 07 12:21:22 timsamoff, I think we should twitter this :D it would have more visibility Jul 07 12:22:52 Andy80: I think it's gottenplenty of exposure. ;) Jul 07 12:24:09 timsamoff, uhm.... you undervalue facebook+twitter ;) Jul 07 12:24:47 Andy80: No.... I tried it before, but certain people said it wasn't even enough! :p Jul 07 12:25:01 And, there are SO many social avenues to keep track of. Jul 07 12:26:22 * timsamoff takes son to daycare. Jul 07 12:32:32 are you sure there's enough visibility? Cannot find anything on maemo.org (home page), nor wiki :\ Jul 07 12:34:20 Jaffa, Stskeeps , about the co-development idea, there will be some session about it in the summit: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions#Maemo_Co-Creation_Working_Session Jul 07 12:35:29 mm, guess i have to show up for that Jul 07 12:35:40 hello dneary :) Jul 07 12:35:49 hello Jul 07 12:35:56 VDVsx: /join #maemo-meeting? Jul 07 12:36:27 dneary, I'm there too :) Jul 07 12:36:41 * Stskeeps still wonders what to submit a talk on Jul 07 12:37:03 Stskeeps, mer ??? :P Jul 07 12:37:17 well, yes, but what within ;) Jul 07 12:38:18 i wonder if we can present Mer 1.0 at that point really Jul 07 12:39:09 * Jaffa 's idea of "Vala for Maemo development" is kinda scuppered - not worth long term investment given its so GObject based and Qt's the future Jul 07 12:41:57 yeah, i'm still pondering the long term consequences of this stuff Jul 07 12:42:27 No long term consequences, lots of short term ones Jul 07 12:42:39 well long term consequences for mer, too :) Jul 07 12:42:44 we have qt as a first class citizen though Jul 07 12:42:49 * xnt14 is at work........with his xps xD Jul 07 12:43:03 As in "will have to abandon Fremantle and start completely rewriting all apps right away" Jul 07 12:43:03 and with an HD monitor Jul 07 12:43:29 but these display settings are crap..... Jul 07 12:44:42 ~seen b-man16 Jul 07 12:44:45 b-man16 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 22h 34m 48s ago, saying: ':P'. Jul 07 12:44:51 hmm... Jul 07 12:51:49 Stskeeps, will the lesser devices suit qt upheavel or are they best remaining as gtk Jul 07 12:52:13 qt is fine on them Jul 07 12:52:20 add in maemo-launcher support and it's nice Jul 07 12:59:37 such a wasting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk_gDGYtaLA (the beer of course) ;) Jul 07 13:02:13 VDVsx: I'd still drink the beer. :p Jul 07 13:02:35 timsamoff, ;) Jul 07 13:08:35 RST38h: http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/0907/6d/503ea215fcad.png <- check it out :) Jul 07 13:13:44 wazd, wazd, http://www.valeriovalerio.org/ ,ehehehe, it's CC licensed ? Jul 07 13:14:19 VDVsx: you bet :) Jul 07 13:23:49 wazd: Do I see a subliminal message there? =) Jul 07 13:24:06 RST38h: hmm, no :P Jul 07 13:28:20 * xnt14 is very bored..... Jul 07 13:32:39 damn, wmplayer hanged my system again... what the heck... Jul 07 13:34:12 damn, that sucks Jul 07 13:36:57 hey all Jul 07 13:37:12 is there a way to make it so that only my telephone / SIP comms go through my bluetooth headset? Jul 07 13:37:17 hello there Jul 07 13:37:21 for example, I don't particularly want the ringer to be via the headset Jul 07 13:39:10 emmm..., guys, who has omweather near right now? Jul 07 13:41:03 I do Jul 07 13:41:18 ok, expecting screaming OMWeather users on t.m.o. in 10 minutes :) Jul 07 13:41:27 orangey: try to upload the weather Jul 07 13:41:35 upload? Jul 07 13:41:39 what do you mean by that? Jul 07 13:41:43 orangey: er, refresh Jul 07 13:41:46 OK. Jul 07 13:41:47 orangey: sorry :) Jul 07 13:42:03 looks like OMW is down :( Jul 07 13:42:05 "Did not download weather" Jul 07 13:42:25 it's been down a few hours Jul 07 13:49:01 Vlad is trying to figure out what's wrong right now Jul 07 13:55:48 * xnt14 wonders how to parse xml from bash....... Jul 07 13:56:01 SAX maybe Jul 07 13:56:13 * xnt14 googles SAX Jul 07 13:58:04 hmm Jul 07 13:58:54 okay...? wtf? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&hs=CZB&q=using+SAX+in+bash&aq=f&oq=&aqi= Jul 07 13:58:54 * Jaffa doesn't fancy writing a content handler in bash! Jul 07 13:59:10 xnt14: xalan to pull out specific xpath entries? Jul 07 13:59:28 jaffa, well, I would be happy if the dreamhost api gave output in other formats.... Jul 07 13:59:32 xalan? Jul 07 13:59:34 * xnt14 googles Jul 07 14:00:01 um guys, I need bash :P Jul 07 14:00:07 bash compatible Jul 07 14:00:46 reformated the sd card again and I still get the no filesystem available error :( Jul 07 14:01:03 damn, weather.com sucks Jul 07 14:01:41 well the dh api has json output...... Jul 07 14:02:03 http://wiki.dreamhost.com/API#What_values_does_DreamHost.27s_API_use.3F Jul 07 14:02:16 json,perl,xml.... Jul 07 14:04:53 ok, fix is comming, don't pannic :) Jul 07 14:09:29 xnt14: Run xalan from within bash, capture its output. But you've said "parse XML", when what you probably want to do is something with the XML, once parsed. Jul 07 14:11:47 basically I want to take the output of the dreamhost api domains list command and display it in the zenity list view, then I want to take the output of the clicked item and open another window showing the available actions Jul 07 14:11:54 * xnt14 tries that Jul 07 14:17:21 heres my code right now: http://xceleo.org/pastes/sitetool_noapi Jul 07 14:17:31 i changed the api key to the test one Jul 07 14:17:45 "If you would like to test the DreamHost API without having your own account, you may use the API Key 6SHU5P2HLDAYECUM" ~dh wiki Jul 07 14:18:27 dneary, don't look at is as an attack on the people, but an attack on Nokia's continued incompetence. ;) Jul 07 14:18:53 GAN800: See, it's an attack on the Nokia people's continued incompetence Jul 07 14:19:05 GAN800: And that's what I hope people can understand Jul 07 14:19:21 It's like people who attack Novell & Mono - this affects the Novell & mono team Jul 07 14:19:30 Nokia should have alotted more time and resources to making sure it was good, they didn't, this is the response. Jul 07 14:19:32 It's not just technical criticism Jul 07 14:19:43 Users are like that. Jul 07 14:20:00 I'd've loved someone to say "this is a great document, and it's great that we have it, and I'm glad I have a chance to make it better" Jul 07 14:20:10 GAN800: Communities aren't Jul 07 14:21:39 dneary, Talk is mostly composed of users, though. Jul 07 14:22:19 GAN800: If that were true, the people who are working really really hard to try to make the community happy wouldn't be reading it Jul 07 14:22:37 GAN800: The issue is getting Talk community members to consider that they're hurting people's feelings Jul 07 14:22:44 Ha Jul 07 14:22:49 Good luck Jul 07 14:22:51 The reaction may be "awww, poor baby, his feelings were hurt" Jul 07 14:23:13 Really, I'm the last person you ever want to bring THAT up to. :) Jul 07 14:23:38 but the reality is, when people are working 60 to 80 hours a week to get things like the HIG out on top of all the other work they have to do, and "this is shit" is the reaction, that's disheartening Jul 07 14:23:39 dneary: I do not see any real efforts to make community happy Jul 07 14:23:56 dneary: right now the whole thing starts looking like a pr cluster fuck Jul 07 14:24:38 RST38h: That's your opinion, and I respect it. Right now, I just want everyone on Talk to have a little respect for my friends actually doing the work Jul 07 14:24:45 GAN800, I would say for tmo: 80% users and 20% dev's Jul 07 14:24:46 dneary: trying to ignore this unfortunate fact isn't going to change it Jul 07 14:25:23 I will note that the one guy who said "I'll do it all, don't worry" did nothing Jul 07 14:25:36 dneary: That's your wish, and I respect it :) You won't be able to get the same respect from the Anonymous though. Jul 07 14:26:26 dneary: Can I suggest something? A minimal effort, really, but one that will win respect back for Maemo team? Jul 07 14:26:35 has anybody gotten ko/pi working on maemo? Jul 07 14:27:25 am I missing something while doing things?) Jul 07 14:27:50 wazd: Ah, nothing, just a bit more forum politics... Jul 07 14:28:28 dneary, be happy they've managed to stick to attacking their work and not them as people. :) Jul 07 14:28:53 RST38h: We lost respect? Jul 07 14:29:08 dneary: Yes. In my opinion of course. Jul 07 14:29:12 RST38h: Make your suggestion. The worst that happen will be that I disagree with you Jul 07 14:29:20 GAN: That would be too low Jul 07 14:29:31 RST38h: can you give me a link, I need something to read while coffee break :) Jul 07 14:29:38 dneary: You will simply ignore it, as always, but I will try Jul 07 14:29:51 wazd: Any of the "Where is Nokia" threads Jul 07 14:30:25 RST38h: oh, I don't read those :) Jul 07 14:30:26 dneary: Start releasing small updates to Diablo backend packages to Extras-Devel Jul 07 14:30:32 Community work is like caring for a wounded animal, even though you try to do good, you still get scratched and bitten ;) Jul 07 14:30:42 dneary: camel, bluez, that kind of things Jul 07 14:31:16 X-Fade: Only if you are holding it the wrong way =) Jul 07 14:31:21 RST38h: If I disagree with you, I will say "I disagree with you", that's not ignoring you Jul 07 14:31:22 upgrade bluez in diablo == fuck all the bluez app around :P Jul 07 14:31:29 *apps Jul 07 14:31:33 RST38h: We(maemo.org) are talking with Nokia about taking over care of diablo after Fremantle gets out. Jul 07 14:31:56 X-Fade: The actuall updates better start right now. Jul 07 14:31:58 RST38h: That's a good idea. In fact, I'd love to see someone from outside the Maemo team take over a patckage they care about Jul 07 14:32:01 RST38h: We can then do SSUs to update these things. Jul 07 14:32:10 RST38h: I agree with you, but that is just not possible. Jul 07 14:32:14 X-Fade: just push out whatever bug fixes have not been released uet. Jul 07 14:32:24 X-Fade: Why is that impossible? Jul 07 14:32:28 RST38h: I don't have the skills to do that, but it's a good idea. You should propose it in Bugzilla or Ideastorm Jul 07 14:32:39 RST38h: There is just nobody available for it. Jul 07 14:32:48 X-Fade: Nokia has got the packages, the fixes are already done, why not package and release? Jul 07 14:33:03 How do you get findutils installed on scratchbox's arm target? Jul 07 14:33:08 It's not in diablo... Jul 07 14:33:21 most things are already out there but someone needs to sit down and do it Jul 07 14:33:29 X-Fade: This does nto require significant time Jul 07 14:33:39 X-Fade: So, I hardly believe nobody can do it Jul 07 14:33:41 RST38h: We need to get Nokia to push our key through SSU one time. Jul 07 14:33:58 RST38h: After that, we should be able to push updates ourselves. Jul 07 14:34:00 RST38h: whole community variant thing does take significant logistics Jul 07 14:34:12 I was able to download an x86 version, but the arm version says it's not compatible with "armel", and forcing it to install just says it can't find `/lib/ld-linux.so.2' Jul 07 14:34:13 X-Fade: But I am not talking about the whole community dev thing Jul 07 14:34:21 X-Fade: did Nokia say they'd be happy to do that? I remember you saying it was discussed at the mozmae weekend Jul 07 14:34:21 RST38h: But that needs a lot of planning with lawyers, integration etc. Jul 07 14:34:32 X-Fade: I am talking about releasing updates to the packages Nokia already has, fixed Jul 07 14:34:36 Jaffa: Yes, they are. Jul 07 14:34:47 X-Fade: No lawyers or integration involved Jul 07 14:34:48 Jaffa: But also only after Fremantle is out. Jul 07 14:34:48 RST38h: only possible through ssu Jul 07 14:35:10 Sts: SSU is nothing more than a bunch of DEBs now, isn't it? Jul 07 14:35:18 RST38h: That is not true. Jul 07 14:35:28 RST38h: yeah but there's trusted domains and such Jul 07 14:35:29 RST38h: It is a meta package with specific dependencies. Jul 07 14:35:50 RST38h: To update the metapackage, we need to be the trusted party. Jul 07 14:36:15 And updating a random system package without it, will break SSU. Jul 07 14:36:40 Hi Jul 07 14:36:49 RST38h: The App Mgr won't install any SSU packages from extras-devel without flipping some bits in one of its configuration files. Jul 07 14:37:14 RST38h: So, ideally, Nokia would push out an SSU which would flip those bits. Alternatively, we could create a package which users would have to install to get community updates. Jul 07 14:37:25 RST38h: community updates will come, eventually. the know how and people exist, but noone sane would do it in their free time Jul 07 14:37:37 way too big logistics involved Jul 07 14:37:40 RST38h: Your assistance is welcome, since this is entirely community (i.e. volunteer) driven - and there's a technical plan on the maemo-developers mailing list Jul 07 14:38:02 we have most of the path laid already Jul 07 14:38:19 Jaffa: Sorry, this is not the immediate problem I have been trying to address with the proposal to dneary Jul 07 14:38:41 Jaffa: The immediate problem is to show that the Maemo Devices actually *cares* about its users Jul 07 14:38:47 RST38h: I thought you wanted updates to existing packages pushed out? Jul 07 14:38:59 RST38h: I disagree with your premise. I like your idea. I disagree with the benefit of the end result. Jul 07 14:39:05 RST38h: Right, but there's not much dneary can do about that since he works for maemo.org, not Maemo Devices Jul 07 14:39:07 Jaffa: And the minimal-effort solution to this problem is to continue pushing out Diablo updates every now and then Jul 07 14:39:27 RST38h: That effort is not as minimal as you think. Jul 07 14:39:31 RST38h: I don't think anyone here disagrees that that would be good. See above for the obstacles to any of us doing it. Jul 07 14:39:40 Jaffa: Then he should not complain about the tone of t.m.o becoming hostile. Jul 07 14:39:52 RST38h: That includes certification, testing, doc updates etc etc. Jul 07 14:39:52 If you think installing an extra package would be fine, and/or want to work & test that, I'd be very happy. Jul 07 14:40:01 X-Fade: Let me see Jul 07 14:40:12 dneary, my own suggestion is for more of these people to come out in the community if they need help. Jul 07 14:40:16 X-Fade: Doc updates - none, as long as we are talking about the backend Jul 07 14:40:30 X-Fade: Testing - Extras-Devel will do it for you Jul 07 14:40:36 RST38h: Sdk updates, docs need to be regenerated. Jul 07 14:41:00 X-Fade: Certification - not unless the code has anything to do with the RF part, and even there is it doubtful Jul 07 14:41:02 RST38h: can't update a package from device through e-d Jul 07 14:41:07 * Jaffa agrees with GAN800 in his assessment. Nothing against the people involved, but it's been put out - by Nokia - as the Fremantle HIG; and it's unfinished and been under-resourced. Jul 07 14:41:43 Jaffa: Fremantle HIG beta. Jul 07 14:41:53 Sts: I can't install a new bluez with dpkg? Jul 07 14:41:58 Sts: Or a new camel? Jul 07 14:42:13 RST38h: No, that will break your SSU. Jul 07 14:42:24 Does anyone know how to install findutils in scratchbox for armel? It's essential for building Qt... Jul 07 14:42:28 This repo has to be signed with a Nokia key? The way I see it is that you add any signed repo with a trust-level of 400. Jul 07 14:42:28 RST38h: sure you can, but you can't assume a user would be able to.. Jul 07 14:42:29 rsalveti, and your bluetooth system Jul 07 14:42:39 ups RST38h ^^ Jul 07 14:42:50 Sts: That is ok, as we are talking about a bunch of power users from tmo Jul 07 14:42:55 X-Fade: OK, true. Jul 07 14:43:07 RST38h, don't mix issues. Jul 07 14:43:07 qwerty12_N810: But you can't write to these settings? Jul 07 14:43:16 RST38h: packages already exists, just not compiled Jul 07 14:43:24 qwerty12_N810: That's correct. And there's already a maemo.org key in there (AIUI). So, it's just a case of increasing maemo.org extras' trust-level. Jul 07 14:43:26 Fremantle HIG, Diablo updates, and maemo.org staff are separate things. Jul 07 14:43:29 Sts: Then why not compile and release? Jul 07 14:43:36 X-Fade: We can. We just need to install a package to do it. Jul 07 14:43:51 X-Fade: Nokia does it by installing a plan package that uses hildon-application-manager-config to add this repo Jul 07 14:43:53 Jaffa: Yeah, but that needs manual instal of the package. Jul 07 14:43:56 RST38h: see it the other way, why dont the power users? Jul 07 14:44:05 s/plan/plain/ Jul 07 14:44:05 qwerty12_N810 meant: X-Fade: Nokia does it by installing a plain package that uses hildon-application-manager-config to add this repo Jul 07 14:44:09 it's all out thered Jul 07 14:44:14 X-Fade: Yeah. We could, if we knew it was coming down the line, prepare and test that package, though. Jul 07 14:44:16 public svn Jul 07 14:44:43 Sts: Because all the "normal" users must have forgotten about their N810s already =) Jul 07 14:44:51 Jaffa: I wouldn't mind testing that. Jul 07 14:45:22 Sts: And if a normal user does want to install experimental updates there are power users to help Jul 07 14:45:35 Personally, I wouldn't want Extras to be the SSU repo. Another server on maemo.org, certainly, but Extras can be like a nuclear warhead testing ground. Jul 07 14:45:46 s/server/repo Jul 07 14:45:46 X-Fade: WHich is why I was inviting RST38h to help us out ;-) Jul 07 14:46:01 what is the problem with a e-d package or .install that installs a repo and key anyway? Jul 07 14:46:05 qwerty12_N810: true, Extras already exists tho' Jul 07 14:46:10 e, i mean Jul 07 14:46:11 qwerty12_N810: yeah, we could use a separate component for it. Jul 07 14:46:15 Stskeeps: Nothing. It'll work. It's just not "seamless" Jul 07 14:46:26 Which means that most users will miss out. Jul 07 14:46:45 qwerty12_N810: free non-free community-firmware-updates :) Jul 07 14:46:55 But if we're going to get some assistance from Nokia, doing all the work now and testing it so it's seamless post-Nokia'-shelp would be sensible. Jul 07 14:46:55 Jaffa: yes, but they can discover maemo.org then.. Jul 07 14:47:01 X-Fade: That has a nice ring to it :) Jul 07 14:47:14 qwerty12_N810: nice and short too :) Jul 07 14:47:55 Jaffa: when we have the non seamless working its easier to convince nokia to add as a ssus Jul 07 14:47:58 :) Jul 07 14:49:19 Stskeeps: agreed 100% Jul 07 14:49:36 i'm kinda tired of people demanding a house instead of taking a shovel, find some friends and materials and build a house.. Jul 07 14:49:46 So, if Nokia's on board (although I've only got X-Fade's word for that ;-)), I suggest we think about steaming ahead Jul 07 14:49:59 Jaffa: Stskeeps was in the meeting too ;) Jul 07 14:50:42 X-Fade: still, I'd like to see something from Nokia on the maemo-developers thread (although your word is good enough, I'd like to have a stick for future use if necessary ;-)) Jul 07 14:50:43 same thing needed for mer as with maemo, so yeah Jul 07 14:50:51 Sts: Building houses on somebody else's land has proven to be unreliable over years Jul 07 14:51:12 RST38h: nokia isn't apple Jul 07 14:51:24 Sts: Have I mentioned Apple? =) Jul 07 14:51:39 Jaffa: Did the meeting commence? Is it over? Jul 07 14:51:49 timsamoff: You missed it. Jul 07 14:52:01 X-Fade: thought so... Thanks./ Jul 07 14:52:14 timsamoff: Will put up a log asap. Jul 07 14:52:51 It's all right... I was just wondering. ;) Jul 07 14:53:13 no, but it is a fair comparison. maemo is fertile ground and iphoneos tries actively to remove any community hacks.. Jul 07 14:56:31 we'd be in a lot different situation if we actively built houses in the community :P Jul 07 14:57:03 More do-ers, less talkers.. Jul 07 14:57:35 indeed Jul 07 15:03:35 * xnt14 gets bored Jul 07 15:03:40 * xnt14 plays nexuiz Jul 07 15:04:04 well first I need to compile it from svn :P Jul 07 15:06:15 Why does Maemo use busybox? Jul 07 15:08:01 coldboot: why not? Jul 07 15:08:11 It's missing a bunch of things like a decent version of find. Jul 07 15:08:18 it is small Jul 07 15:08:31 you can install find Jul 07 15:08:37 Where do you get it? Jul 07 15:08:41