**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 08 02:59:59 2009 Jul 08 03:25:06 Does anyone know how to develop flash application in maemo? Jul 08 03:27:44 the same way you'd develop one for any other platfrom Jul 08 03:30:59 man_in_shack: Hello,if I want to use gravity sensor in the flash application,what should I do? Jul 08 03:31:36 gravity sensor? Jul 08 03:31:39 Guys, do you know any wiki or instructions on how to reflash the OS on the n810, to later reinstall it but telling it to use the SD card? it really sux to only have the internal memory for apps, its not enough.... Jul 08 03:32:12 daniel32708, chech on maemo.org there are afew Jul 08 03:32:49 man_in_shack:yes,the same as iphone. Jul 08 03:33:17 aalso on internettablet talk Jul 08 03:33:23 zhjawe, what hardware? Jul 08 03:33:33 ~flashing Jul 08 03:33:34 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 08 03:33:41 ~boot-sd Jul 08 03:33:42 boot-sd is, like, https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Jul 08 03:34:41 thx guys Jul 08 03:35:26 man_in_shack:in a virtual development environment on PC. Jul 08 03:36:02 i'm wondering what maemo-supported hardware has a gravity sensor Jul 08 03:36:28 RX-51 Jul 08 03:39:31 i am using midinux(imitate maemo) SDK. Jul 08 03:39:53 is there a browser for maemo that is close to the iphone or the palm pre speed wise Jul 08 03:40:02 i know there is tear but tear still doesnt compete Jul 08 03:40:56 SHADOW_V, the Pre has, like, 3x the CPU. . . . Jul 08 03:41:17 heh the original iphone doesnt have 3x the cpu Jul 08 03:41:38 Yeah, and it sure aint faster than MicroB, either. Jul 08 03:42:09 hmm the only think i have used is the itouch 2g Jul 08 03:42:12 which is way faster Jul 08 03:44:13 or is it that unfair of a comparison Jul 08 03:44:33 depends how subjective your website selection is. Jul 08 03:45:10 uh mythweb google sites slashdot digg gizmodo Jul 08 03:45:16 those types of sites Jul 08 03:45:30 All VERY js heavy. Jul 08 03:45:42 Which is where MicroB trips over itself. Jul 08 03:45:47 so thats the problem then Jul 08 03:45:52 Yes. Jul 08 03:45:52 well i have been using tear more Jul 08 03:45:58 which is faster i have to admit Jul 08 03:46:08 FF3a1's js performance was . . . bad. Jul 08 03:46:40 ff3.5 is an improvement Jul 08 03:48:21 Yeah, unfortunately merging MicroB with trunk is non-trivial. Jul 08 03:48:27 Thus, Tear. Jul 08 03:50:13 GAN800, what do you mean tear is based on mcrob Jul 08 03:50:34 Tear is using a recent WebKit. Jul 08 03:50:42 thats what i though Jul 08 03:50:52 and it's the only viable upgrade path from MicroB. Jul 08 03:51:00 ah ok yeah Jul 08 03:56:36 is there a viable way to watch mythtv recordings on the tablets? Jul 08 04:13:36 ~seen b-man Jul 08 04:13:39 b-man was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 47d 5h 1m 41s ago, saying: 'wtf'. Jul 08 04:13:43 ~seen b-man16 Jul 08 04:13:45 b-man16 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 14h 3m 48s ago, saying: ':P'. Jul 08 04:13:50 okay...xD Jul 08 04:14:28 * xnt14[server] just flashed his dads nslu2 with linux and is killing himself trying to get it to mount his flashdrive..... Jul 08 04:15:03 %mk.link xnt14[work] | local Jul 08 04:15:14 oops im supposed to do that via pm :P Jul 08 04:17:53 i tried to use dialcentral on maemo and the error i am getting is iter must be gtktree1ter Jul 08 04:24:54 * FireFox16 pokes xnt14 Jul 08 04:26:51 damn :( Jul 08 04:26:54 * FireFox16 needs to go XP Jul 08 05:05:55 i'm incredibly anxious to order a touch book Jul 08 05:05:59 i think i am going to order one soon Jul 08 05:06:04 mer developers... Jul 08 05:06:09 http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html Jul 08 05:06:18 * Macer grins Jul 08 05:06:18 you have GOT to be kidding me Jul 08 05:06:29 Luke-Jr: what?! Jul 08 05:06:30 :-P Jul 08 05:06:47 chrome os has arm support Jul 08 05:06:48 haha Jul 08 05:06:55 would go nice with the touch book if the stock OS sucks Jul 08 05:06:58 which i'm sure it does Jul 08 05:07:46 Macer: It isn't a joke, right? Jul 08 05:07:55 it's not april :) Jul 08 05:08:04 That was the first thing I checked =) Jul 08 05:08:20 Google sucks Jul 08 05:08:22 seriously Jul 08 05:08:36 ok. Jul 08 05:09:03 haha Jul 08 05:09:10 android is awesome Jul 08 05:09:24 well... on a phone at least.. i don't see why anybody would want to run it on an actual computer Jul 08 05:09:44 The article isn't talking about Android Jul 08 05:10:08 i know it's not Jul 08 05:10:25 it's talking about a new google lightweight os Jul 08 05:10:28 for x86 and arms Jul 08 05:10:29 :) Jul 08 05:10:55 i was just retorting Luke-Jr's mindless "google sucks" comment Jul 08 05:11:12 also staring at the mer guys because this is going to put them out of business unless they do somethign amazing with mer Jul 08 05:12:08 this atom gets hot Jul 08 05:12:34 then again thinking back to my n800.. it got kind of hot too Jul 08 05:12:46 Macer: Ah, do not pay attention to him =) Jul 08 05:12:57 Luke-Jr: Do you like Windows, Luke? Jul 08 05:12:58 lol Jul 08 05:14:23 i think he is still reading the article basking in the glory of google Jul 08 05:14:24 haha Jul 08 05:14:52 i think android is pretty good Jul 08 05:14:59 compared to most phone OSes Jul 08 05:15:14 except of course for reliance on java Jul 08 05:15:18 minus the fact that the "market" is a free for all Jul 08 05:15:28 i don't know of many phone operating systems that don't rely on java Jul 08 05:15:42 like...all of them? Jul 08 05:15:52 Symbian, WinMobile... Jul 08 05:15:57 heh Jul 08 05:15:59 yup Jul 08 05:16:17 i suppose java can be made small Jul 08 05:16:31 Some custom solutions historically relied on Java (S40, Moto platforms) but not any more Jul 08 05:16:34 oh yes... even non-existent Jul 08 05:16:44 and small means less flash requied internally Jul 08 05:17:01 yeah but most of the apps for symbian are still largely java based Jul 08 05:17:10 Macer: not really Jul 08 05:17:28 Macer: I mean, there is plenty of MIDP games, indeed, but most of the actual apps are native Jul 08 05:17:29 most of the ones i have used were ;) Jul 08 05:17:43 winmobile is another beast Jul 08 05:19:06 RST38h: yeah i suppose Jul 08 05:19:23 there was a midp ssh client i suppose Jul 08 05:19:24 :) Jul 08 05:20:38 nothing beats java ssh Jul 08 05:20:38 haha Jul 08 05:20:41 Macer: it wasn't mindless, I just didn't care to elaborate. ☺ Jul 08 05:20:46 lol Jul 08 05:21:04 hi Luke-Jr ! Jul 08 05:21:26 and yes, Java is the biggest problem I have with Android Jul 08 05:21:30 that alone makes it suck IMO Jul 08 05:21:37 java ftw :) Jul 08 05:21:41 and Google can't code for crap Jul 08 05:21:46 that's my biggest problem with Google Jul 08 05:21:54 yeah but they made a nice lookign phone os Jul 08 05:21:58 badly coded or not Jul 08 05:22:06 nice looking is irrelevant. anyone can make something nice looking. Jul 08 05:22:32 well. i've had my g1 for a while and can't say i've had many problems with the os in general Jul 08 05:22:41 Luke-Jr: thats clearly not true Jul 08 05:22:44 have you used linux? :) Jul 08 05:22:50 haha Jul 08 05:22:55 Pavlov: i didn't want to say it Jul 08 05:23:37 Pavlov: I don't have a computer that doesn't rely on Linux. Jul 08 05:23:41 OMWeather stopped working. Hm Jul 08 05:23:58 RST38h: this is why I intentionally neglect to upgrade it :þ Jul 08 05:24:18 RST38h: omweather always stops workig Jul 08 05:24:40 Luke-Jr: i think his point is that most open sourced stuff is badly coded Jul 08 05:25:00 Macer: ok, true enough Jul 08 05:25:07 but I have to settle for *something* Jul 08 05:25:22 i mean i'm no coder myself but it is obvious when you have absolutely no type of control over code then stuff just horribly put together is introduced with a complete lack of quality control but as long as it still works and nobody noticed.. then nobody cares :) Jul 08 05:25:36 Macer: open source has plenty of control over code Jul 08 05:25:43 Luke-Jr: lies :) haha Jul 08 05:26:01 Macer: there is a single person who needs to approve every line of code changed in Linux Jul 08 05:26:03 and plus... Jul 08 05:26:15 yeah. i was abou tto say Jul 08 05:26:26 well. that is linux :) not the apps applied to distros Jul 08 05:26:38 from what i've heard. compiz is disgustingly coded but it still works Jul 08 05:26:56 this is why I refuse to use GTK Jul 08 05:26:57 and the pressure is more so to introduce more eye candy than possibly break something that "works" even if it is badly coded Jul 08 05:27:00 compbiz is.. yeah Jul 08 05:27:23 Qt4 is a rare example of good code, and it's under tight control Jul 08 05:27:42 and then there is KDE, the more bazaar-like Qt Jul 08 05:27:45 KDE sucks Jul 08 05:27:58 Cathedral vs bazaar, clearly the cathedral wins Jul 08 05:28:39 Qt code is kinda messy too Jul 08 05:28:44 but most all code is Jul 08 05:29:00 but you say google has bad code.. :) i think their base code for the OS is probably good but ocne it is released to the masses you get a ton of crap from people who slap things together just to get things working Jul 08 05:29:05 Qt was also infected by commercialism Jul 08 05:29:21 Luke-Jr: er.. qt started closed and commercial Jul 08 05:29:26 heh Jul 08 05:29:27 exactly Jul 08 05:29:41 good code comes from INTERESTED developers with TIGHT control for quality Jul 08 05:29:53 Luke-Jr: and tha tis the fault with linux Jul 08 05:30:02 … Jul 08 05:30:03 people argue about things and BAM... Jul 08 05:30:05 Linux is just that Jul 08 05:30:07 a new distro is born :) Jul 08 05:30:08 haha Jul 08 05:30:30 Macer: That distro is called BSD. Jul 08 05:30:38 … Jul 08 05:30:39 RST38h: hey Jul 08 05:30:41 fbsd is the shit :) Jul 08 05:30:43 haha Jul 08 05:30:56 Works-for-me. Jul 08 05:30:59 opensolaris ftw Jul 08 05:31:01 even if it uses gnome by default Jul 08 05:32:24 Scratchbox bind mount for user not present. E: Start scratchbox service with 'sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start'. Jul 08 05:32:31 so i made it Jul 08 05:32:32 omg my son is a nut Jul 08 05:32:42 wtf is ee? Jul 08 05:32:43 peanut? Jul 08 05:32:46 but i can't install Fr. sdk last beta... Jul 08 05:32:53 Macer: He is also quoting Cathedral and Bazaar aloud? Jul 08 05:32:56 EE is Estonia Jul 08 05:32:57 almond? Jul 08 05:33:01 oh Jul 08 05:33:27 brazil? Jul 08 05:33:54 hm... Jul 08 05:34:54 Eee is a netbook Jul 08 05:37:17 Luke-Jr: this asipireone sucks Jul 08 05:37:18 :) Jul 08 05:37:22 it's an xp version Jul 08 05:37:31 fail Jul 08 05:37:34 yeah Jul 08 05:37:37 it sucks Jul 08 05:38:02 after i give this back to the person who let me use it... i'm going to pre-order a touchbook Jul 08 05:38:11 and make sure my bank will insure the money if i was conned haha Jul 08 05:39:10 Macer: why woudl they do that? Jul 08 05:39:48 Scratchbox devkit debian-etch not found. E: Please complete scratchbox installation first. Jul 08 05:39:54 any solution? Jul 08 05:40:06 Install debian-etch? Jul 08 05:40:19 Luke-Jr: i will just say some spoof company stole my money without my permission Jul 08 05:40:23 and that i must be a victim of identity theft :) Jul 08 05:40:24 haha Jul 08 05:40:33 Macer: ebusiness? =) Jul 08 05:40:37 it works.. it's only $400.. they'd have no problem Jul 08 05:40:52 i make that in interest in a month off my other accounts haha Jul 08 05:41:44 the goal is to set up my tor servers and issue out touch books to start an international drug empire Jul 08 05:42:01 with monthly ssh key renewals and what not :) Jul 08 05:42:06 n800s were the first choice but they kind of suck Jul 08 05:42:25 took too long to tap at the keyboard... and the n800s and g1 qwerty keyboards take forever too Jul 08 05:45:04 other drug empires are seriously too low tech .. i want to capitalize on an outdated market with collaberation and technology upgrades to a profitable industry Jul 08 05:45:12 * Macer grins Jul 08 05:45:52 no RST38H - debian-etch is not in fremantle repo Jul 08 05:45:56 n800s/n810s Jul 08 05:47:26 http://pastebin.com/m4f41e9cd Jul 08 05:48:35 Get it from Diablo repo then Jul 08 05:50:14 * RST38h wonders what happens if netbooks go out of fashion by the time Google releases its OS Jul 08 05:53:39 not in diablo too Jul 08 05:55:51 took a picture of a google car in hong kong 2 days ago Jul 08 05:57:06 anyone here stream mythtv recordings to their tablet Jul 08 06:14:05 i am trying to install mobile myth but dependeancies arent met Jul 08 06:16:47 how can i paste using xchat on maemo Jul 08 06:17:42 Shadow_M, the same way you paste everywhere else Jul 08 06:17:48 maybe you wanted to ask 'how can i copy text into clipboard'? Jul 08 06:18:02 ctrl c right Jul 08 06:18:55 Shadow_M, on tablet, just select text. it's put into clipboard automatically Jul 08 06:20:15 copy and paste isnt working in tear Jul 08 06:22:41 Shadow_M, then fix it/file a bugreport :) Jul 08 06:29:10 ok slonopotamus tear doesnt have copy Jul 08 06:29:16 http://mythtvnews.com/2007/09/26/maemomyth-a-frontend-for-mythtv-on-nokia-n800/ Jul 08 06:29:27 thats what i am trying to instgall Jul 08 06:42:50 whats the distrobution current n810's run Jul 08 06:43:05 iam looking at some isntalls that have bora or chincook Jul 08 06:45:50 Shadow__X: Maemo 4.1, Mer, or Gentoo Jul 08 06:45:54 maybe Ubuntu too Jul 08 06:45:59 depending on b-man's random generator Jul 08 06:46:06 hmm Jul 08 06:46:24 i just want to beable to watch my mythtv recordings on my tablet and make it somewhat useful again Jul 08 06:46:39 but i cant fulfill the dependancies of this Jul 08 06:46:40 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mtv/ Jul 08 07:29:02 Shadow__X, I think there is a mythtv plugin to stream videos thru a web server in flash Jul 08 07:29:10 mythweb Jul 08 07:29:18 yeah there is Jul 08 07:29:19 but Jul 08 07:29:29 full screen doesnt work well Jul 08 07:29:38 i wish the n810 had a better cpu Jul 08 07:29:40 :( Jul 08 07:29:48 most things that i do keep pointing to that Jul 08 07:42:12 tank-man, what are your thoughts of this Jul 08 07:42:13 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mtv/ Jul 08 07:44:16 yawn Jul 08 07:51:37 it says beta, what else is there to know Jul 08 07:55:57 that i couldnt install it because of a huge list of dependencies that wherent met i guess thats not a good idea Jul 08 08:05:04 heh Jul 08 08:05:13 i was reading the rest of that google os article Jul 08 08:05:14 They want their data to be accessible to them wherever they are and not have to worry about losing their computer or forgetting to back up files. Jul 08 08:05:36 I had this since...mmm...1993? Jul 08 08:19:33 timeless_mbp: ping Jul 08 08:19:38 pong Jul 08 08:20:04 i have a strange locale problem with my 0.15 image with the strings included, something you can help me track down if i upload a vmdk? Jul 08 08:20:13 as in, the strings are there for sure but it doesn Jul 08 08:20:20 't pick them up, even though LANG is correct Jul 08 08:20:49 sure Jul 08 08:21:20 RST38h: had what? Jul 08 08:21:34 sorry. drifted off to another # Jul 08 08:21:42 timeless_mbp: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-x86-generic-image-v0.15testing4.vmdk.zip Jul 08 08:21:45 hehe.. i just thought it was similar to a book about "cloud computing" Jul 08 08:22:04 where the author stated that all computers will lose their individuality and just turn into terminals for the cloud Jul 08 08:22:12 google is becomming skynet Jul 08 08:22:21 Macer: had my data accessible wherever I was Jul 08 08:23:05 RST38h: yeah but i think the google concept is that they store it all on their servers Jul 08 08:23:28 i'm guessing a sync every so often like a roaming profile where everything is constantly being pumped to their datacenters Jul 08 08:23:43 Macer: never needed Google for that, still do not Jul 08 08:23:58 RST38h: i'm sure you don't... but the concept they are trying to use reminded me of the book Jul 08 08:24:02 :) Jul 08 08:24:15 which is true. sure you will have the minorties that try to fight the system.. but in the end... Jul 08 08:24:22 billions will flock to google Jul 08 08:24:23 Well that is because it is exactly what cloud computing is about Jul 08 08:24:44 and what if google is the next enron Jul 08 08:24:45 ? Jul 08 08:24:46 Macer: nobody will flock to google for this Jul 08 08:24:49 haha Jul 08 08:25:04 Google is not where the death of civilization will come from =) Jul 08 08:25:13 RST38h: so says you :-P Jul 08 08:25:21 And you do not need my crystal balls to see that Jul 08 08:25:49 lol. but the author had a very interesting point on the fact that computers are devolving into terminals Jul 08 08:26:03 They are not. Only in his brain. Jul 08 08:26:25 and losing all individuality Jul 08 08:26:28 There is a lot more web browsing of course. But computers are not devloving into terminals. Last guys who bet on that lost money. Jul 08 08:26:32 not really.. millions use flickr Jul 08 08:26:35 :) and twitter Jul 08 08:26:42 Stskeeps: unzipping :) Jul 08 08:26:51 Twitter is no more than a web based IRC Jul 08 08:26:53 storing billions of photos and videos on places like that Jul 08 08:27:00 Flickr is basically an online gallery Jul 08 08:27:03 and careless with their local storage Jul 08 08:27:07 fwiw, a bunch of google apps just left Beta :) Jul 08 08:27:12 because the photos will always be on flickr Jul 08 08:27:13 haha Jul 08 08:27:16 and google also annouced Google Chrome OS Jul 08 08:27:21 And I am 100% sure that for each photo published on flicker there is al ocal copy somewhere Jul 08 08:27:27 timeless_mbp: what about gmail? Jul 08 08:27:29 haha Jul 08 08:27:36 Macer: including GMail Jul 08 08:27:43 RST38h: you can't be 100% sure about that Jul 08 08:27:55 Macer: Of course, but I am "pretty" sure :) Jul 08 08:27:57 i am sure of the millions that use it that someone accidently wiped the photos Jul 08 08:28:25 Macer: You upload photos to flicker not to store them there. You do it to present them to others Jul 08 08:28:45 :) tell that to joe dell Jul 08 08:28:47 haha Jul 08 08:29:04 * RST38h is not fit for the role of Cpt Obvious Jul 08 08:29:10 lol Jul 08 08:29:39 either way it goes though. if google has a successful run with this google os which i am almost sure it will Jul 08 08:29:40 Stskeeps: i'm grabbing lunch Jul 08 08:29:45 So all this idea of getting exclusive hold of users' data is just somebody's wet corporate dream Jul 08 08:29:47 i'll look in an hour or so Jul 08 08:29:57 then it is just one more step closer to use being borg Jul 08 08:29:58 haha Jul 08 08:30:11 timeless_mbp: alright, no rush - there's some deeper problems i'm working on too so Jul 08 08:30:12 RST38h: google has become very good at it Jul 08 08:30:25 they store their personal email. millions use their docs apps and store stuff there Jul 08 08:30:40 Maybe. Jul 08 08:30:44 some companies "collaberate" on google Jul 08 08:30:52 Maybe^2. Jul 08 08:30:56 sharing folders etc Jul 08 08:31:14 no it isn't maybe. someone i know said his company uses google for stuff like this Jul 08 08:31:24 That would be prohibited by our corporate security policies Jul 08 08:31:25 they were debating whether or not to use something local Jul 08 08:31:42 RST38h: well. some companies aren't creating new nuclear weapons :-P Jul 08 08:31:43 haha Jul 08 08:32:04 We ain't, but this kind of behavior is still prohibited by security policies Jul 08 08:32:16 And rightly so, I should say Jul 08 08:32:25 in the end they noticed that instead of investing money in their own servers why not just use google to do things like this? Jul 08 08:32:41 and save tons of money in the process :) Jul 08 08:32:48 Ah, the Architengi character just continues trolling on and on Jul 08 08:33:06 * RST38h considers closing in for a kill Jul 08 08:33:14 er.. is it possible to troll a conversation you started? :) Jul 08 08:33:27 Of course it is Jul 08 08:33:39 You troll the forum, not a conversation Jul 08 08:34:06 well. anyways. i just thought it reminded me of the book about cloud computing and the eventual loss of the "individual computer" Jul 08 08:34:23 Macer: Because you do not want Google, the CIA, the FBI, and whoever can hack that web site to see your stuff. Even if it is innocent. Jul 08 08:34:34 RST38h: oh i agree Jul 08 08:34:37 or a competitor Jul 08 08:34:40 but some may not :) Jul 08 08:34:52 pupnik: Any of the above may be employed by a competitor Jul 08 08:35:27 RST38h: in the world of co espionage... your boss might be employed by a competitor Jul 08 08:35:30 heh Jul 08 08:35:42 Macer: Then I do not care, not my concern Jul 08 08:35:48 haha Jul 08 08:36:21 * RST38h only cares about his personal integrity, the rest can do what they wish Jul 08 08:51:15 hello maemo Jul 08 08:52:03 moo wazd Jul 08 08:59:30 good monring Jul 08 09:04:08 morning Jul 08 09:23:41 moorning lardman Jul 08 09:26:32 Mikko Jaakkola Jul 08 09:26:34 ... Jul 08 09:26:35 damnit Jul 08 09:26:49 die paste Jul 08 09:27:05 Finnish hit list? :> Jul 08 09:27:17 global? ;p Jul 08 09:27:38 So, what has this guy done? =) Jul 08 09:39:42 Morning, all Jul 08 09:40:31 is there a way to factory-reset a n810 _completely_ including the internal flash storage? the internal storage is full with crap, the file manager claims half of which is copy protected and does not see the other half when i enter the actual directories... strangely enough, i do not see that Jul 08 09:40:57 s/that/those/ files when attaching the n810 to a computer either Jul 08 09:41:17 re-flash it and then format memory card from it? Jul 08 09:41:21 RichiH: You can format the internal storage from the file manager. Jul 08 09:57:57 mornin maemo \o Jul 08 09:58:05 jaffa, did you o any more testing on your flightsim Jul 08 09:58:18 "fly jaffa, the juicy airline" Jul 08 09:59:03 jaffa, i hope your flightsim is going to include remotely accessible telemetry data Jul 08 10:00:10 X-Fade: where/how? Jul 08 10:16:05 Stskeeps: starting ... Jul 08 10:16:17 Stskeeps: sadly, my primary workstation is having issues w/ its zpool :( Jul 08 10:16:23 zpool history is aborting! Jul 08 10:16:29 auch :P Jul 08 10:16:42 i have a osol in a virtualbox right now and real HDs.. it actually works quite decently Jul 08 10:17:23 lcuk: steady on boy ;-) Jul 08 10:17:29 anyway... what am i looking at? Jul 08 10:17:48 timeless_mbp: you're looking at a mer setup where en_US.utf8 is the standard locale, and enus strings are installed Jul 08 10:17:52 lang seems right Jul 08 10:18:02 now, why isn't it getting picked up? :) Jul 08 10:18:42 i checked, not even app manager has it Jul 08 10:20:02 ok Jul 08 10:20:37 ok, so... the file itself seems ok Jul 08 10:21:32 Stskeeps: do you have a decent shell? Jul 08 10:21:38 try (as root): apt-get install strace Jul 08 10:22:24 setting locale failed yadda yadda.. Jul 08 10:22:37 ok, try dpkg-reconfigure locales Jul 08 10:22:39 you're missing a file Jul 08 10:22:45 one of my packages used to provide it Jul 08 10:23:58 hmm, which? Jul 08 10:24:08 it's a single file that says "hi, this locale exists" Jul 08 10:24:14 * timeless_mbp goes fishing Jul 08 10:24:51 ah, i think i might know why Jul 08 10:24:52 sec Jul 08 10:25:11 locale-l10-enus1 is the one Jul 08 10:25:14 (thanks for the strings btw, they're excellent) Jul 08 10:25:20 /var/lib/locales/supported.d/ is the directory Jul 08 10:25:29 got it - i forgot to localegen en_US.UTF-8 Jul 08 10:25:30 the file can be called anything but in mine it's locale-l10n-enus1 Jul 08 10:26:12 once i copy that file over Jul 08 10:26:16 and run dpkg-reconfigure Jul 08 10:26:33 things work Jul 08 10:26:35 *nod* Jul 08 10:27:01 localegen does the supported.d part Jul 08 10:27:22 * timeless_mbp shrugs Jul 08 10:27:37 i've always had a package of mine which provides the file and then trigger dpkg-reconfigure locales Jul 08 10:27:44 but i don't know the formal way to do this nonsense :) Jul 08 10:28:01 hehe Jul 08 10:28:39 anything else or can i delete the disk image? Jul 08 10:28:46 nah, i think we solved it by now :) Jul 08 10:28:47 thanks :) Jul 08 10:28:52 either way, we already have some chinese translations based on the en_US translations now Jul 08 10:28:55 we'll see how that works out Jul 08 10:29:33 have there been cases where formating the SD card still gives the "no filesystem available" error when connecting a card reader to USB? Jul 08 11:37:40 Any HTML parcing specialists in here?) Jul 08 11:47:26 wazd, you dont need to be a specialist, just have good access to a parsing library :) Jul 08 11:50:36 great, if i try to select all & delete all in File Manager, the n810 reboots Jul 08 11:52:29 RichiH, i once tried to move >1000 files from one folder to another and corrupted my mmc Jul 08 11:52:38 i havent done that since :) Jul 08 11:52:44 RichiH: Why don't you just click on the top-level icon for the memory card. Then menu->tools->format memory card ? Jul 08 11:53:02 X-Fade: cause i did now know you could do that :) Jul 08 11:53:03 thanks Jul 08 11:53:52 RichiH: tap-n-hold on memorycard icon brings up the option too btw. Jul 08 11:54:09 X-Fade: i did that and there was no format Jul 08 11:54:42 RichiH: There is for me? Jul 08 11:55:20 i will look again once it is done locking up and actually usable again Jul 08 11:57:15 X-Fade: ah, it's there but greyed out Jul 08 11:57:18 apparently, it's in use Jul 08 11:57:27 how do i find out what uses it? Jul 08 11:57:43 RichiH: removed usb cable? Jul 08 11:58:00 there is non plugged in Jul 08 11:58:14 RichiH: Using swap? Jul 08 11:59:33 X-Fade: i don't know Jul 08 12:00:12 1000 files wouldn't fit in the root directory of either mmc :) Jul 08 12:00:19 RichiH: control panel -> memory -> virtual Jul 08 12:02:27 unable to remove vitrual memory Jul 08 12:03:05 when trying to deactivate swap Jul 08 12:03:09 Sounds like the filesystem is corrupted. Jul 08 12:03:44 fine by me. which brings me back to my initial question of how to reset the whole thing to zero Jul 08 12:04:19 RichiH: There is no default way to do that. As the user partition isn't touched while flashing. Jul 08 12:04:57 X-Fade: if i re-flash, should it start without swap activated? Jul 08 12:05:31 RichiH: I'm not sure. It might detect the swap file. Jul 08 12:05:50 * RichiH can't wait for the n900 with properly sized storage & omap3 :) Jul 08 12:06:11 X-Fade: i will be able to tell you in a minute or five Jul 08 12:06:26 RichiH: Corrupt filesystem will probably never be solved as this can happen in many ways. Jul 08 12:06:49 you tried to deactive swap, right.. it might've deactivatd it but not deleted the actual file.. which should still be fine for formatting it from file manager Jul 08 12:07:02 X-Fade: tbh, i do assume that a FS corruption is very much the exception, not the norm Jul 08 12:07:12 indeed Jul 08 12:07:27 RichiH: Not when you use memorycards which show up in windows and use vfat. Jul 08 12:07:37 ShadowJK: it would not let me exit the menu unless i clicked cancel, but i did not try to reformat afterwards Jul 08 12:07:38 RichiH, with any filesystem, assume failure will occur Jul 08 12:07:54 When you do not do a nice unmount, it can be corrupted alreay. Jul 08 12:07:58 that is true for tablets and desktop computers and laptops and everything else Jul 08 12:08:02 I had filesystem corruption once.. I traced the problem to the memory card reader I had been using. It silently corrupted stuff both reading and writing... after I stopped putting cards in it, corruption issues went away :) Jul 08 12:08:08 lcuk: and keep backups, of course. still, i assume failure is the exception, not the norm Jul 08 12:08:18 RichiH, ok do you have access to root shell on the tablet? Jul 08 12:08:54 RichiH, of course its not the norm, but that doesnt mean one person wont have bacd luck and corrupt everything they touch ;) Jul 08 12:08:55 RichiH: Of course this problem can be solved with some console foo too, but that would require some knowledge on your end. Jul 08 12:08:55 ShadowJK: i can't install anything, any more Jul 08 12:09:02 ShadowJK: so no Jul 08 12:09:41 X-Fade: assume advanced to pro knowledge on my end Jul 08 12:09:56 with linux in general, not maemo, of course Jul 08 12:10:26 hm, what happens if you connect usb cable to computer when the tablet is on? :) Jul 08 12:10:27 RichiH: Well, whatever you normally do with corrupt filesystems. Unmount,format ;) Jul 08 12:10:50 X-Fade: that is waht i tried :p Jul 08 12:11:13 the problem with console-foo is you need rootshell :) Jul 08 12:12:00 though if you're lucky, connecting usb cable will make the internal (and external) cards appear on your PC Jul 08 12:12:02 hmm, could it be that if i boot normally with usb attached, the internal storage is only shown via USB, but not within the n810? Jul 08 12:12:12 if that is the case, i think i just found a way to fix this mess :) Jul 08 12:12:27 worth a try - as long as it doesn't end up waiting for flashing Jul 08 12:12:31 I forget how it works :) Jul 08 12:13:07 RichiH: Won't work as the filesystem is still mounted. Jul 08 12:13:11 it seems that if i boot in USB mode, i see the actual root storage. if i don't, i see the internal flash Jul 08 12:13:50 X-Fade: not neccessarily. atm, i am able to run the n810 at amazing speeds (read, i do not have to wait 10 to 120 seconds after keypresses) Jul 08 12:14:04 input is processed immediately Jul 08 12:14:10 did you connect usb cable? Jul 08 12:14:12 yes Jul 08 12:14:17 Disk /dev/sda: 2013 MB, 2013265920 bytes Jul 08 12:14:34 i need vfat, i assume? Jul 08 12:14:37 i.e. fat32 Jul 08 12:14:47 can you do cat /proc/mounts on the tablet, and make sure mmc isn't mounted Jul 08 12:15:49 with the way i am running it atm, i might be able to Jul 08 12:16:05 with usb connected :) Jul 08 12:16:06 i.e. it's fast enough and seems to work as it is, presumably, intended Jul 08 12:16:09 aye Jul 08 12:18:24 k, the internal flash is definitely invisible on the n810 Jul 08 12:18:29 ++ Jul 08 12:19:06 nice Jul 08 12:19:13 did your PC detect a sda1 partition? Jul 08 12:19:32 and I hope it isn't the external card if you have one inserted :) Jul 08 12:20:09 nope, there is none Jul 08 12:20:17 i still need to get a micro->mini adapter Jul 08 12:20:36 ok, reformatted the 2 GiB partition with vfat, reflashed the n810 Jul 08 12:20:48 did you reformat /dev/sda or /dev/sda1? :) Jul 08 12:21:18 ah nevermind, what does it look like on the tablet now? :P Jul 08 12:22:40 sda1 as that was what was there Jul 08 12:23:09 fdisk did not agree about the sector count so i did not repartition, either Jul 08 12:23:30 hah, yeah that's an error that comes by default :) Jul 08 12:23:43 RichiH: make sure the partition size is the same as fs size. Jul 08 12:27:38 http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/08/video-asus-eee-keyboard-gutted-soldering-secrets-revealed/ Jul 08 12:27:54 ASUS seems to be doing better on UI than Fremantle =) Jul 08 12:30:55 lol. XP bootscreen sideways Jul 08 12:32:53 * infobot hereby declares git@garage a troll, courtesy of rkirti Jul 08 12:33:46 ShadowJK: _should_ i repartition? Jul 08 12:33:50 if yes, now is the time Jul 08 12:34:13 some people swear that not doing it is the source of filesystem corruption Jul 08 12:34:31 woah,this is dangerous! I thought infobot would help me vent my angst at garage's git for accepting pushes only once in n times, and being so horribly slow Jul 08 12:35:20 hehe Jul 08 12:35:35 rkirti: how does your HD look now? Jul 08 12:36:51 rather plain the last time I saw it. I have added lots of stuff after that, but cant test it till I get my adapter's cable back :-| (in an hour) Jul 08 12:37:01 rkirti: yeah, git over https sucks in general, and git@garage appears to be even a poor implemenation of it :'( Jul 08 12:37:47 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/chinesemer.png Jul 08 12:37:58 suihkulokki: Problem is that git doesn't support user management when doing git protocol. Jul 08 12:38:15 Stskeeps, cool :D Jul 08 12:38:17 We really need some hardware to shut people up Jul 08 12:38:24 Stskeeps, green is not better. . . . Jul 08 12:38:51 It looks like somebody vomited up a Mer logo in the corner. Jul 08 12:39:12 wazd: feel like going over the mer theme and give me a silent beating to make things prettier? :P Jul 08 12:39:21 X-Fade: I think most use ssh for authentication (at least gitorious) Jul 08 12:39:50 suihkulokki: Yeah. Which is not allowed through certain corporate firewalls ;) Jul 08 12:40:05 suihkulokki: But it is on the TODO list anyway. Jul 08 12:40:45 i so hope these chinese translations aren Jul 08 12:40:52 't translate.google.com and actually swear words.. Jul 08 12:40:53 Stskeeps: we're almost finished with VDVsx, most difficult parts are drawn :) Jul 08 12:41:02 k Jul 08 12:41:28 http://i060.radikal.ru/0907/ca/299547cc93e8.jpg <- keyboard restyling :) Jul 08 12:41:40 not bad Jul 08 12:41:46 the most evil part about translating swear words from english to chinese with translate.google is that the poor westerner has no clue how to type the symbols back into translate.google for verification :P Jul 08 12:42:02 wazd, too much iPhone. Jul 08 12:42:20 Make them triangular shaped Jul 08 12:42:28 GeneralAntilles: what can I do, it acts like the iPhone one :) Jul 08 12:42:46 There must be some more radical vkb designs we can try Jul 08 12:43:09 Oh, also, the S60 5th calculator has a nice features where it highlights the last key that was pressed. Jul 08 12:43:09 GeneralAntilles: The circular ones with keys in the corners? :) Jul 08 12:43:30 GeneralAntilles: it's just a redrawing for now, no changes in functionality Jul 08 12:43:31 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, that is very nice when you type in passwords and somebody is watching ;) Jul 08 12:43:42 General: "but it looks like iPhone!" is not a valid counter argument :) Jul 08 12:43:48 X-Fade, clearly the toolkit is clued into that fact. Jul 08 12:43:52 fail: typing in passwords when someone is watching Jul 08 12:44:06 X-Fade, so disabling it would be no more difficult than asterisking them out like it does now. Jul 08 12:44:23 GeneralAntilles: Type in your lock code on your tablet now ;) Jul 08 12:44:38 It keeps the last typed char highlighted. Jul 08 12:44:44 Meh, who locks their tablets? Jul 08 12:45:29 GeneralAntilles: Works nicely when I have xterm open with remote root shells ;) Jul 08 12:46:01 X-Fade, play the the edge-case game and you're going to get funny behaviors. :P Jul 08 12:46:12 * GeneralAntilles goes to pitch a new game show. Jul 08 12:46:54 * GeneralAntilles also goes to work. Jul 08 13:02:58 damn, I HATE typing... Just finished 10 pages of a website proposal document X_X Jul 08 13:03:41 Stskeeps: can you get some better icons for the other apps? :) Jul 08 13:04:39 timeless_mbp: yeah, once we have replaced the fremantle icons which we cannot use :) Jul 08 13:04:40 timeless_mbp: I'll do that Jul 08 13:04:53 wazd: where's my f12 key? Jul 08 13:05:05 timeless_mbp: ask VDVsx :D Jul 08 13:05:33 ask him for me :) Jul 08 13:05:45 wazd: i'll trade f11 for ESC Jul 08 13:05:59 especially if F1 shifts right and ESC rotates to the left of it :) Jul 08 13:06:13 VDVsx: hey, where's f12 key? :D Jul 08 13:06:32 wazd: also, would you consider trading backspace for enter? Jul 08 13:06:48 heck, having a left stroke over space trigger backspace :) Jul 08 13:07:23 hrm... Jul 08 13:07:31 could i have a right stroke over space for tab? :) Jul 08 13:07:55 lbt: Hi Jul 08 13:08:08 fiferboy: heya :) Jul 08 13:08:33 Antonio likes finger scrolling, which must mean he hasn't tested it with 4.5.2 on the device Jul 08 13:08:53 wazd, timeless_mbp , with the current layout I can't put all the wanted keys in the screen (home and program are also missing for the mac user), suggestions are welcome Jul 08 13:09:18 VDVsx: so... f12 is not actually important Jul 08 13:09:24 but having f11 w/o f12 is stupid Jul 08 13:09:35 VDVsx: oh, and that's all the problem?) Jul 08 13:09:37 please shift f1..f10 over one, drop f11 and add esc Jul 08 13:09:55 timeless_mbp, f11 is fullscreen in FF Jul 08 13:10:08 not on my mac :) Jul 08 13:10:12 eheh Jul 08 13:10:44 (ff-mac doesn't support full screen) Jul 08 13:10:57 timeless_mbp: lawl Jul 08 13:13:53 jeremiah_: ping? Jul 08 13:14:34 timeless_mbp, the alt key isn't present usually in mac's right ? Jul 08 13:14:45 sure it is Jul 08 13:14:59 ctrl, alt-option, cmd, space, cmd, alt-option, ctrl Jul 08 13:15:05 that's this mac usb keyboard Jul 08 13:17:28 timeless_mbp, humm, how do you use the alt key ? ctl + option ? :P Jul 08 13:17:42 depends on the system Jul 08 13:17:58 if it's a windows system, the key is alt Jul 08 13:18:03 if it's a mac app, it's option Jul 08 13:18:54 timeless_mbp, ah, cool , thanks Jul 08 13:18:57 VDVsx: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions#Mer:_A_year_after Jul 08 13:19:02 (comments welcome) Jul 08 13:19:32 a year already? Jul 08 13:20:05 yeah Jul 08 13:20:06 thought the same (in October should be) Jul 08 13:20:11 in october Jul 08 13:20:24 we first released quite late but the thoughts were out far before Fremantle announcement Jul 08 13:20:30 about N8x0 not having it Jul 08 13:20:48 hah it feels like I just got my N810 last month but it's over a year now :/ Jul 08 13:21:32 http://s41.radikal.ru/i093/0907/3f/730d9194cc9f.jpg Jul 08 13:22:14 how about diamond shaped Jul 08 13:22:29 ShadowJK: what?) Jul 08 13:22:32 keys Jul 08 13:22:58 ShadowJK: I think it's too extravaganza Jul 08 13:23:21 wazd: Opacity? Jul 08 13:24:30 please, ask more detailed questions :) Jul 08 13:24:47 wazd: Yeah, sorry lazy/busy ;) Jul 08 13:24:51 move row with z half a key to the left? :) Jul 08 13:24:56 X-Fade: opacity where/what/why?) Jul 08 13:24:57 or right Jul 08 13:25:24 wazd: I meant to say that you need to see the entry field below or have a dedicated entry field bar somewhere? Jul 08 13:25:40 Hi people. Jul 08 13:25:45 'lo Hitos Jul 08 13:26:04 X-Fade: it's just a screen keyboard, no entry fields there :) Jul 08 13:26:21 X-Fade: it connects to the desktop as BT keyboard Jul 08 13:26:29 Hitos: hello Jul 08 13:26:45 wazd: Ah. Jul 08 13:27:56 ShadowJK: hmm, why so?) Jul 08 13:28:16 ShadowJK: then it will be harder to press backspace Jul 08 13:28:49 wazd, now I will need one of your cool diagrams for the first row :P Jul 08 13:28:57 * RST38h would actually suggest a different screen keyboard Jul 08 13:29:23 Make it full screen, transparent, and overlay it on the application Jul 08 13:29:24 wazd, but makes it harder to mis-press between rows when the columns are misaligned Jul 08 13:29:35 RST38h: you've missed the point Jul 08 13:29:38 RST38h, it's not screen keyboard as he already said Jul 08 13:29:57 RST38h: that's like bt keyboard for the desktop Jul 08 13:30:07 Shadow: wazd just said that it IS screen keyboard Jul 08 13:30:09 RST38h: it doesn't work on the tablet Jul 08 13:30:14 wazd: Ah, it is for bluemaemo Jul 08 13:30:21 Ok, I get it now Jul 08 13:30:25 wazd :) amazing - don't forget, it should be practical to use an older nokia device as a vkb (via bt) with a newer nokia device - a double sized nokia acting in tandem would make for an excellent demo video ;) Jul 08 13:30:27 RST38h: well, it's screen keyboard technicaly :) Jul 08 13:30:47 lcuk: new nokia has a hardware keyboard :) Jul 08 13:31:02 lcuk: I use Bluemaemo running on an N810 to connect to an N800 Jul 08 13:31:13 doesnt matter - the smartq doesnt and lots of folks have n800s which they dont want to just throw away when new one comes along Jul 08 13:31:14 lcuk: It works in every mode as VDVsx says :) Jul 08 13:31:27 Abiword has been creating new entries in the Application Menu each time it is installed or updated. Right now I have eight Abiword entries in the Extras menu. Where I can edit the application menu, so I can remove these? I use Diablo. Jul 08 13:31:57 haha qwerty cool Jul 08 13:32:11 qwerty12_N810: nerd :P Jul 08 13:32:20 lol Jul 08 13:32:30 how did you find out? :p Jul 08 13:32:50 qwerty12_N810: more than 2 digits in your nickname :D Jul 08 13:33:02 hehe Jul 08 13:33:03 wazd: why is it not full screen? Given there's nothing running underneath, surely having the largest physical layout on a 4" diagonal is important? Jul 08 13:33:40 I wonder if the upper area is left for mouse Jul 08 13:34:00 Jaffa: vertical space doesn't make much sense here and that small row on the top is actually a trackpad surface :) Jul 08 13:34:13 Jaffa: tap here and move to move the cursor Jul 08 13:34:37 wazd: except all the keys could be bigger, there could be a number row, some symbols included etc :-p Jul 08 13:34:51 wazd: Trackpad's intersting though Jul 08 13:34:59 Jaffa: and again, I've just remade the look, cause rearranging all that stuff is a difficult stuff Jul 08 13:35:06 stuff stuff :) Jul 08 13:35:18 lbt: ping? Jul 08 13:35:39 wazd: Oh, you're just doing a skinning job. Thought it was a mockup/concept for a future version of BlueMaemo Jul 08 13:35:57 Jaffa, number and special char are in the second and third keyboard view :) Jul 08 13:36:32 Jaffa: well, mouse/keyboard switch is an improvement :P Jul 08 13:36:59 VDVsx: Yeah, I guessed that. It's irritating having to go to Chr on an N810 for {, }, [, ], | etc. And flicking views for numbers seems overly painful (though I dunno what use cases you're aiming for with the BlueMaemo keyboard) Jul 08 13:38:31 VDVsx: Is there any hope for predictive CHR entry, like on S60? =) Jul 08 13:38:56 RST38h, t9 ? Jul 08 13:39:14 Jaffa, I know, maybe we can think in something coller later, but right now, Wazd is helping me in a more strait restyling :) Jul 08 13:39:31 VDVsx: No, much simpler Jul 08 13:39:52 VDVsx: S60 shows 5-6 last entered CHRs at the top row of the entry table Jul 08 13:40:00 VDVsx: So that you can access them quickly Jul 08 13:40:20 wazd, didnt stskeeps just do a crowd sourcing thing for XML layouts for keyboards? Jul 08 13:40:31 VDVsx: And very good it looks too :) Jul 08 13:40:32 RST38h, ah, I get it :), good idea Jul 08 13:40:43 i keep thinking its possible to read those layouts and use in liqbase, so it should be possible also to do same in other apps Jul 08 13:42:29 Jaffa, wazd is very skilled, and apart from others could say about programmers and designers working together, I like to work it him :) Jul 08 13:42:48 hurray for wazd! Jul 08 13:43:16 Stskeeps, how complex are those layouts? Jul 08 13:43:22 are they just position and keycap info? Jul 08 13:43:37 VDVsx, has anyone requested the + and - hw buttons for left and right click yet? :-) Jul 08 13:43:41 lcuk: very simple, not even position Jul 08 13:43:43 just row Jul 08 13:44:02 mm thats a shame Jul 08 13:44:52 ShadowJK, they act like hold, i.e if you press - or + you can drag and drop Jul 08 13:46:23 ShadowJK, a on-screen right and left buttons also exist Jul 08 13:47:20 and tap works for left click too, but I haven't figured out how to do click-hold through tapping Jul 08 13:47:28 like you can do on laptop touchpads :) Jul 08 13:47:33 * Stskeeps is looking forward to trying the kinetic osso-xterm Jul 08 13:49:38 ShadowJk, tap-click and hold isn't implemented Jul 08 13:50:18 http://s41.radikal.ru/i091/0907/9e/fa84e601134a.jpg <- mouse layout Jul 08 13:51:34 I think I should mark LMB and RMB Jul 08 13:51:44 it's not 100% obvious where they are :) Jul 08 13:51:58 ShadowJK, actually I think, my laptop touchpad doesn't support it to, or I can't figure it out how to do it :) Jul 08 13:52:58 it's like a double-tap where you don't release on the last tap Jul 08 13:53:01 or then it was a tripple-tap Jul 08 13:53:11 I don't actually have a laptop, I've only used other people's laptops :P Jul 08 13:54:57 VDVsx,wazd: I see you have got some free space in the title bar - it can be used to display the name of a device bluemaemo connects to Jul 08 13:55:15 Also clock. Jul 08 13:56:00 is there a guide for newbies wanting to start with GSM? :) Jul 08 13:56:11 * Eren is currently checking on Wiki Jul 08 13:56:23 what do you mean start with gsm.. Jul 08 13:56:39 ShadowJK, hum, I see the "drag hand" but I can't move the window, too difficult :P Jul 08 13:57:16 ShadowJK: I mean, understanding the core elements, what makes GSM possible and so on.. think it like an "how internet as it's used today works" Jul 08 13:57:41 i guess wikipedia.. Jul 08 13:58:02 Eren: Google! Jul 08 13:58:27 RST38h: of course, google! but I need a keyword :) Jul 08 13:58:36 gsm is an industry standard, this means 10,000page standards documents written in a type of english unknown to most people Jul 08 13:58:40 what should I learn to play with network? Jul 08 13:59:17 * VDVsx is heading back to the Som's work Jul 08 13:59:28 this came to my mind yesterday, I wanted to make an application on my computer to send SMS using my current SIM card Jul 08 13:59:41 Eren: "gsm" ? Jul 08 14:00:08 Shadow: GSM standards are all closed, available to people paying lots of $$$ nly Jul 08 14:00:25 Shadow: Some of the documents have been leaked though, so they can be found Jul 08 14:00:54 Well, using AT commands you will probably manage? Jul 08 14:01:10 RST38h: ehm, how it's all closed? so we can't learn what we should do to authenticate with network and the protocol used in SMS Jul 08 14:01:38 Eren, http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Main_Page Jul 08 14:02:43 Where are located the entries for the application menu in OS2008? Jul 08 14:02:55 Eren: you can send SMS messages through web sites Jul 08 14:03:19 Hitos: Control panel -> panels Jul 08 14:03:39 Hitos: /usr/share/applications/hildon/ Jul 08 14:04:00 RST38h: well, right :) but I want to play with the core elements. Think it like "sniffing the ethernet device to see which program sends which packages" Jul 08 14:04:01 Eren: SMSes are actually sent with AT commands, but you ave to be already authenticated and also have to have access to the baseband chip Jul 08 14:04:10 qwerty12_N810: Thank you. Jul 08 14:04:14 Hitos: You can then click on applications organize button. Jul 08 14:04:23 Hitos: No need to hack on the filesystem. Jul 08 14:04:44 Eren: http://gatling.ikk.sztaki.hu/~kissg/gsm/at+c.html Jul 08 14:05:00 Eren: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcca.org%2Fstandards%2FAnnex_i.doc&ei=Y6dUSsS7L8HB-Qac6qzMCA&usg=AFQjCNEi8tqwE2ghdswLTd5LEuHmuEI0NA&sig2=NkZNCOc1p4SWCIPP93BQkg Jul 08 14:05:16 If you have a GSM phone or a GSM/3G modem, they act and talk Hayes AT commandset and behave a bit like a modem :P Jul 08 14:05:30 Sony Ericsson have a PDF of the AT commands used in their phones @ developer world Jul 08 14:05:43 X-Fade: I need to. I got a lot of repeated entres for Abiword and the Control Panel doesn't allow me to remove them. Jul 08 14:05:51 Yeah, nokia has one on forum nokia Jul 08 14:06:03 Eren: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~mcba/iridium/Motorola_AT_Command_Set.pdf Jul 08 14:06:07 RST38h: well, I think it's not so necessary info to display it on every screen Jul 08 14:06:16 Eren: www.pcca.org/standards/Annex_i.doc Jul 08 14:06:19 Hitos: Isn't that what the delete button is for? :) Jul 08 14:06:24 RST38h: it's shown on the main menu and I think it's enough Jul 08 14:06:35 Eren: Should I google further or will you be able to serve yourself? =) Jul 08 14:06:47 wazd: It's not, true Jul 08 14:06:49 RST38h: thank you, that's enough for starting :) Jul 08 14:06:59 wazd: It's just that the title looks orphaned :) Jul 08 14:07:10 RST38h: I hope I'll be able to find my way using these documents, at least I have keyword to look up :)) Jul 08 14:07:13 RST38h: Whatever :) Jul 08 14:07:23 RST38h: freespace is a good thing :) Jul 08 14:07:27 Put a fortune cookie there :) Jul 08 14:08:30 ShadowJK: hmm, reasonable, our mobile phones does have simply a modem chip to interact with GSM network. there there are set of rules that operates the system. I guess we can think these as "protocols" Jul 08 14:08:54 like an IRC protocol, MSN protocol etc. Jul 08 14:09:32 and you can talk AT with the modem chips, that's the best you'll get :P Jul 08 14:10:14 * Eren now needs a linux-compatable modem chip :P Jul 08 14:10:30 do you have a cellphone? Jul 08 14:10:34 of course Jul 08 14:11:27 Does it have bluetooth? Do you have a computer with bluetooth? Jul 08 14:11:44 ShadowJK: it has bluetooth, yep Jul 08 14:12:08 hm, no my laptop doesn't have bluetooth, but I can solve this problem with usb bluetooth device Jul 08 14:12:46 do you have a usb bluetooth device? Jul 08 14:13:50 ShadowJK: not yet, do you think I can use it as "modem" to interact with network? :) Jul 08 14:14:07 There isn't much you can do anyway Jul 08 14:14:22 send and receive sms, answer and make calls :P Jul 08 14:14:32 :)) Jul 08 14:14:36 can't I debug it? :P Jul 08 14:14:37 lolol, best phone test ever : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqK97furfBA :P Jul 08 14:14:46 Eren, nop Jul 08 14:15:04 Read the pdf RST38h linked :P Jul 08 14:15:17 ShadowJK: okie, I downloaded it :) Jul 08 14:15:29 to get an idea of what they expose Jul 08 14:15:41 VDVsx: wohoo, great. I'm hungry :\ Jul 08 14:17:09 ah btw guys, what about the "Curse of Silence" attack? Does European GSM carries filter the "payload" ? Jul 08 14:18:40 arghhh my dns is screwed Jul 08 14:18:45 can someone tell me if this works: http://liqbase.net/liq.20090708_001114.liqcontrolpanel.scr.png Jul 08 14:18:57 yup Jul 08 14:19:03 cool :) Jul 08 14:19:18 * lcuk is getting 404 here when i just clicked it myself Jul 08 14:22:30 My nokia phones expose several rfcomm serial ports over bluetooth.. atleast one of them accepts AT commands :) Jul 08 14:25:22 ShadowJK, hint: sdptool search [--bdaddr xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx] DUN Jul 08 14:27:58 lcuk: what's w the beer? Jul 08 14:28:30 memory indicators :) (stylized, zach is gonna make em proper Jul 08 14:28:48 inz, one of the other ones were better for SMS and calls, iirc :) Jul 08 14:28:53 like the lemon battery, i just wanted *something* in place Jul 08 14:28:54 so Jul 08 14:28:58 power, temperature Jul 08 14:29:01 brightness Jul 08 14:29:05 storage, time Jul 08 14:29:12 and licqbase? Jul 08 14:29:21 all of the things zach has background net based monitoring code for Jul 08 14:29:41 ShadowJK, oh, my Nokia phones only speak Hayes over the DUN channel Jul 08 14:29:54 well, some of em lol Jul 08 14:30:00 i just put the others there to see Jul 08 14:30:37 on the full desktop they dont take up much room, but each can be expanded to full screen easily :) Jul 08 14:30:45 on my 6230 I can connect to DUN on one channel and have an active internet connection, while I have gnokii polling one of the other RFCOMM channels for signal strength and cellID, so I can move it around until I trick it to switch to the better base station :P Jul 08 14:32:16 alternating between climbing chairs and hiding it in tinfoil seems to eventually convince it to switch to something else, and with luck it's the one I want Jul 08 14:32:44 Jul 08 14:33:20 some helpful person on IRC once told me an easy way use a car battery to trick the base stations to switch to internal power Jul 08 14:33:37 he promised if I did it to all the ones in range that I don't want, there'd only be the one I want left after 4 hours or so Jul 08 14:33:58 * ShadowJK didn't try, it sounded like lots of effort Jul 08 14:34:09 Oh but the effect! Jul 08 14:34:12 and probably not legal :) Jul 08 14:35:23 Shadow: Most fun things are illegal in the US Jul 08 14:36:30 formated the SD card again Jul 08 14:36:36 still no file system available Jul 08 14:46:09 timeless_mbp: you want reports of missing strings? Jul 08 14:46:22 not particularly ;-) Jul 08 14:46:33 any strings i'm missing weren't in the thing you provided, right? Jul 08 14:46:45 in general you should be able to retrieve strings from the other packages i gave you Jul 08 14:46:53 i did give you my translate set too, right? Jul 08 14:46:56 yeah Jul 08 14:46:59 i'll take a look Jul 08 14:50:53 fiferboy: hi Jul 08 14:50:58 X-Fade: pong Jul 08 14:51:03 lbt: Hey Jul 08 14:51:24 not been overlapping much recently have we :) Jul 08 14:51:59 No we haven't Jul 08 14:58:01 It looks like finger scrolling will finally get into extras-devel, but performance is going to suck unless they fix raster at the same time Jul 08 14:58:22 cool Jul 08 15:22:54 Stskeeps: Did you see this one already? https://git.maemo.org/projects/gitweb?p=wpasupplicant;a=summary Jul 08 15:24:25 no, but interesting Jul 08 15:24:34 X-Fade: where do i file bugs? Jul 08 15:24:35 https://git.maemo.org/projects/gitweb?p=wpasupplicant;a=blob;f=README;h=9c6be85d9ea3a9e033486c541979a82cfcb12da1;hb=566cf8b4cd69381ffa65c907a0518ea925e5ff2f Jul 08 15:24:38 7 These program is dual-licensed under both the GPL version 2 and BSD Jul 08 15:25:06 These program is <****d by non native speakers> Jul 08 15:25:08 timeless_mbp: I have no idea, this project showed up today. Jul 08 15:25:32 timeless_mbp: I guess andre needs to add a product for it in bugzilla ;) Jul 08 15:25:42 oh, i can do that :) Jul 08 15:25:53 well, if safari cooperates Jul 08 15:26:26 X-Fade: shall i? Jul 08 15:26:33 timeless_mbp: I have no idea what this project is supposed to be inside Nokia. Didn't see any notifications about it. Jul 08 15:27:21 timeless_mbp: So the QA contact would need to be looked up at least. Jul 08 15:27:27 no Jul 08 15:27:37 qa's are auto generated by the person who makes the product in bugzilla :) Jul 08 15:29:29 hm, why was http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/ remade today Jul 08 15:29:53 Stskeeps: Gets regenerated every day. Jul 08 15:30:04 ah Jul 08 15:30:07 X-Fade: why are tutorial and hig not? Jul 08 15:30:07 well that explains it :P Jul 08 15:30:22 Stskeeps: Well, imported from SCM every day. Jul 08 15:30:41 Stskeeps: But those are published versions. So nothing bleeding edge. Jul 08 15:31:04 lardman: Did you see my note about a working version of the QR code stuff integrated with zbar? Jul 08 15:37:01 X-Fade: ok, wpasupplicant has a compoent Jul 08 15:37:05 s/oe/one/ Jul 08 15:37:05 timeless_mbp meant: X-Fade: ok, wpasupplicant has a component Jul 08 15:38:00 X-Fade: http://wpasupplicant.garage.maemo.org/ Jul 08 15:39:09 timeless_mbp: Pretty generic page? Jul 08 15:39:27 not as generic as i expected :) Jul 08 15:39:41 timeless_mbp: "upload new page here" :) Jul 08 15:40:02 i don't see that? Jul 08 15:40:22 No, but that was what you expected? Jul 08 15:40:23 yeah, i see Host AP driver for Intersil Prism2/2.5/3, hostapd, and WPA Supplicant Jul 08 15:43:50 anyway, if you have issues w/ the web page, https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=wpasupplicant&component=Website Jul 08 16:16:02 http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/08/sony-ericsson-rachael-images-and-ui-video-leak-out-kiki-comes-f/ Jul 08 16:16:33 Why still noone hired Michael Bay to direct UI visuals? Jul 08 16:16:48 It would be awesome Jul 08 16:17:27 you're clicking "phonebook" and BAAAM! Exposions, sounds, vibra, call 911 Jul 08 16:18:59 wazd, i heard he already did, but noone got out of the press conference alive to tell us about it! Jul 08 16:19:12 lcuk: oh crap Jul 08 16:19:35 stupid journalists forgot to put a fireproof suit on Jul 08 16:19:40 a nokia transformer could be cool (H) Jul 08 16:22:50 wazd: there's no audio Jul 08 16:22:53 this sucks Jul 08 16:23:08 timeless_mbp: one step at a time :) Jul 08 16:23:23 the battery life has to suck Jul 08 16:23:54 interesting Jul 08 16:23:57 lcuk, already had one. Jul 08 16:23:58 newer messages at the top Jul 08 16:24:15 GAN800, which model? Jul 08 16:25:34 lcuk, one of the clamshell ones. Don't recall which. First Transformers movie. Jul 08 16:25:58 heh Jul 08 16:26:06 I understand that it's hard to keep your brain cool with modern hardware Jul 08 16:26:11 wazd, i got the battery looking and feeling proper now :D http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6743/liq20090708112248libscr.png zach is making it work with the technical stuff tonight http://liqbase.net/liq.20090708_001114.liqcontrolpanel.scr.png Jul 08 16:26:35 :)! Jul 08 16:27:08 Even Apple with their Pixar guru's has made slightly more animation than needed Jul 08 16:27:46 lcuk: btw that battery icon from the iPhone is one of the greatest fails from apple :) Jul 08 16:28:23 yeah but this is fully zoomable and dynamic and pretty (and tonnes better than the power lemon i put there at first Jul 08 16:29:02 lcuk: and btw you don't have the exact iphone's one Jul 08 16:29:14 i hope not lol Jul 08 16:29:38 lcuk: too much mistakes in it for apple :) Jul 08 16:30:16 nothing in linux is perfect Jul 08 16:30:17 gotta go Jul 08 16:30:22 But the fail is that icon symbolizes some kind of a vessel Jul 08 16:31:01 vessels are containing liquids in 99.9% of cases Jul 08 16:31:32 so the first association with this image is that it's a vessel filled with liquid Jul 08 16:32:22 but liquid can't stand vertically like that http://www.pocketpicks.co.uk/latest/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/20070.png Jul 08 16:32:51 This icon should be placed verticaly - then it's awesome Jul 08 16:33:16 it's not liquid, it's magic! Jul 08 16:33:34 neon green magic. Jul 08 16:33:45 sp3000: it's jelly :) Jul 08 16:34:12 of the firm sort apparently :) Jul 08 16:34:37 lcuk: I can redraw this icon for you if you want Jul 08 16:34:46 lcuk: it's easy Jul 08 16:35:15 * timeless_mbp ponders Jul 08 16:35:34 You only wish batteries were magic. Jul 08 16:35:34 most battery images behave the same way Jul 08 16:35:38 i'm not saying that it's right Jul 08 16:35:43 but apple wasn't the first to get it wrong Jul 08 16:35:46 Then they might not suck so much. Jul 08 16:35:53 they borrowed from an existing metaphor and made it shinier Jul 08 16:35:59 (and bigger) Jul 08 16:36:34 a better icon would be a candle actually Jul 08 16:36:39 just show it burning its wax Jul 08 16:36:42 timeless_mbp: well, before this picture everything else was a schematic visualization Jul 08 16:36:48 when the wax runs out, you're out of power :) Jul 08 16:36:57 wazd: um Jul 08 16:37:12 timeless_mbp: like in 10x10 pixels, who cares :) Jul 08 16:37:31 I say you just slap a voltage up there. Jul 08 16:37:31 16x16 surely? :) Jul 08 16:37:40 timeless_mbp: and this is an attempt to draw something photorealistic Jul 08 16:37:53 i still like my candle example Jul 08 16:38:03 timeless_mbp: old phones had icons like 5x10 :D Jul 08 16:38:05 wazd: could you show a candle being dipped into a vat of wax Jul 08 16:38:11 so that it gets longer with time? Jul 08 16:38:24 (while charging) Jul 08 16:38:56 timeless_mbp: that's a too deep metaphor :) Jul 08 16:39:13 http://images.google.com/images?q=wax%20candle%20vat Jul 08 16:39:20 timeless_mbp: battery vessel is fine, it just need to be finished :) Jul 08 16:39:39 Fuel guage Jul 08 16:39:49 http://www.betterbee.com/images/candlevat.jpg Jul 08 16:40:11 GAN800: simpsons did it :) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2201/1574196145_c84b3e9978.jpg Jul 08 16:41:31 All modern electronics are powered by blood. Jul 08 16:41:38 ? Jul 08 16:41:49 really? can I have some? Jul 08 16:41:50 GAN800: even Pope Benedict :D Jul 08 16:43:07 So, clearly, all of these metaphors are just more lies Jul 08 16:43:11 the cool thing to make with multitouch will be a battery apple Jul 08 16:43:14 applet* Jul 08 16:43:53 you click the icon, a duracel/energizer battery appears and you need to hold yellow dots to see battery status :D Jul 08 16:44:40 heh Jul 08 16:45:02 I would rather have an accelerator based battery gauge though Jul 08 16:45:17 ssvb, do you happen to know if Xomap HAL support is broken? (with regards to XKB) Jul 08 16:45:31 RST38h: that's boring :) Jul 08 16:45:46 wazd: Ok, give me a few minutes ;) Jul 08 16:46:12 wazd: 1) you can also use temperature sensor to make liquid "boil" Jul 08 16:46:41 wazd: 2) When an email comes, you can send a few fishes there Jul 08 16:46:48 Stskeeps: don't know about this really, I was mostly only involved with performance optimizations Jul 08 16:46:54 RST38h: :D And an accelerometer to shake and watch bubbles :D Jul 08 16:47:05 wazd: Yep, this goes without saying :) Jul 08 16:47:06 Stskeeps: X.org HAL support is broken, I know that Jul 08 16:47:13 ssvb: alright - just thought i'd ask :) Jul 08 16:47:19 Luke-Jr: Xorg != Xomap :) Jul 08 16:47:25 :þ Jul 08 16:47:33 wazd: Instant messages would make the liquid change color Jul 08 16:47:39 wazd: or maybe occur as bubbles Jul 08 16:47:43 afaik, kdrive is just a static linked Xorg Jul 08 16:48:12 RST38h: that sounds like some indie UI concept :D Jul 08 16:48:28 wazd: And the external LED should light up when you hold the tablet with LED down (i.e. when the liquid flows into it) Jul 08 16:48:44 OS is a fishtank Jul 08 16:48:53 apps are bubbles and decorations Jul 08 16:48:57 wazd: That isn't much worse than OS as a browser =) Jul 08 16:49:00 water = battery :D Jul 08 16:49:24 * RST38h vividly remembers the version of Xroach where cockroaches had usernames on their backs Jul 08 16:49:34 By squishing them you could kick users off the system Jul 08 16:50:28 hmm.. xroach/xbill are perfect tablet games Jul 08 16:54:26 suihkulokki: well, in the original xroach roaches hid under windows, can't do this easily on Hildon Jul 08 16:57:09 I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power Jul 08 17:21:19 Has anyone here worked on the Qt Hildon code? Jul 08 17:21:34 coldboot: Somewhat Jul 08 17:22:35 Is there any reason for widgets to be native when hildon is enabled? Jul 08 17:22:50 wazd, thank you for your kind offer, let zach actually make this one work and lets get things in place and see how we do with the other bits and let you see things in motion to understand the complexities Jul 08 17:22:54 its not just an image Jul 08 17:23:05 coldboot: You mean hildon-themed? Jul 08 17:23:52 it is my hope we can have as many visualizations like this as possible and let the user choose which is best for them Jul 08 17:24:14 fiferboy: I mean widgets are being converted to native X windows, rather than being Qt alien things. Jul 08 17:24:38 fiferboy: I'm currently working on a bug in Maemo Qt with hildon, where flickering occurs whenever you click a QAbstractItemView. Jul 08 17:25:15 isnt that a generic x11 problem though - and mostly noticable because of the slow speed of our hardware Jul 08 17:25:34 Is that a hildon-specific change? I would have thought it would be the same in any X11 environment. Jul 08 17:25:59 coldboot: Try the flickering in the 4.5.2 packages, it is even more pronounced because of slow rendering Jul 08 17:26:07 it might need a maemo specific fix though - purely because no other system has noticable problems Jul 08 17:26:16 I'll do some pasting and show you guys the bug. Jul 08 17:26:19 I found the cause of it. Jul 08 17:26:54 It's because whenever you click a QAbstractItemView with hildon enabled, the widget and all of its children are being converted to native X windows. This happens once during the lifetime of the widget. Jul 08 17:27:02 I've been talking to Antonio Aloisso about it. Jul 08 17:27:11 the x11 conversion is normal isnt it Jul 08 17:27:14 Have you tried disabling that portion of the code? Jul 08 17:27:18 its how you can use qt over x11 remote things Jul 08 17:27:51 and does it happen when you click or when you create the instance of the usercontrol/widget Jul 08 17:28:09 or is that one and the same thing Jul 08 17:28:26 Yeah I disabled it and the flickering stops completely. Jul 08 17:28:39 disabled what, just the x11 construction? Jul 08 17:28:44 Any side-effects you can notice? Jul 08 17:28:56 When you click the QAbstractItemView child widget for the first time during its life, it happens. Jul 08 17:29:10 And it only happens after setCentralWidget() has been called, not before. Jul 08 17:29:18 I couldn't reproduce it without setCentralWidget(). Jul 08 17:29:28 once per click on each item you click on, or once for the entire grid Jul 08 17:29:36 Once for the entire grid. Jul 08 17:29:57 So if I have a dropdown combobox, and a table, if you click one of them, they both flash and clicking the other after will not do anything. Jul 08 17:30:19 in windows land, we used to be able to put a hold on graphical refreshes for a while until i re-enable them Jul 08 17:30:27 1. Click table, observe flash, 2. Click dropdown menu, observe that nothing happens -- and vice versa. Jul 08 17:30:44 nothing happens? ie no flicker, or nothing happens in it doesnt work Jul 08 17:31:18 coldboot: What does Antonio say about the reason for the x11 conversion? Jul 08 17:31:37 its needed to get interactive UI controls isnt it Jul 08 17:31:51 its flickering because of the delay in making them live Jul 08 17:32:01 fiferboy: He hasn't replied yet, I emailed him 30 mins ago. Jul 08 17:32:04 ie not at form creation time, but instead waiting Jul 08 17:32:05 lcuk: It doesn't sound like it. Jul 08 17:32:23 If it is not in the regular linux X11 version Jul 08 17:32:40 It should need some special reason to be in the hildon x11 version Jul 08 17:34:03 Here's the code that causes it: http://pastie.org/538825 Jul 08 17:34:25 lcuk: I mean no flicker happens, it works fine. Jul 08 17:35:10 So clicking any QAbstractItemView once will make it flicker, clicking any QAbstractItemView again will not flicker. If you setCentralWidget() again, it resets the state and you can flicker again. Jul 08 17:35:20 coldboot: Does a context menu still work after you remove that code? Jul 08 17:35:27 Probably because when you setCentralWidget() it recreates all the child widgets, or makes them non-native (alien). Jul 08 17:35:59 fiferboy: Everything works fine even if I remove the call to QHildonInputContext::sendHildonCommand() Jul 08 17:36:06 coldboot, can you not just request the winid ah the "showing?" event of the main frame itself Jul 08 17:36:26 so it instentiates and creates the winid which is obviously being requested by something else Jul 08 17:36:38 'ah the "showing?"' ? What do you mean? Jul 08 17:37:01 an event which fires when you are about to show the box Jul 08 17:37:13 i dunno qt specifically tho so dont know which slot name it needs Jul 08 17:37:36 I don't really know this code that well, I've just found what causes the bug. Jul 08 17:38:15 the winid is obviously needed, and stopping it being initialized would be worse Jul 08 17:38:20 coldboot: If you have an editor in the view, can you pop up the keyboard? Jul 08 17:38:39 It doesn't have a winId initially because it's an alien Qt window, not a native X window. Jul 08 17:39:11 Read the giant comment here: http://pastie.org/538825 Jul 08 17:39:46 It says if the widget is non-native, it will be provided a native handle. Jul 08 17:39:51 I would think that is so HildonInputMethod can work with an editor in the view Jul 08 17:39:54 Which is causing some redrawing and a bit of slowdown. Jul 08 17:40:10 What is Hildon in the context of Maemo? Jul 08 17:40:53 hildon is the desktop environment and special gtk widget classes Jul 08 17:40:54 Well, the HildonInputMethod is what pops up the on screen keyboard and sends the keycodes to the field requesting it. Jul 08 17:43:47 * xnt14 looks at the log..... Jul 08 17:43:56 ahhhhhhhh Jul 08 17:43:59 That's what it is. Jul 08 17:44:01 irssi needs notifications like xchat...... Jul 08 17:44:23 xnt14: Like beeping when someone types your name? Jul 08 17:44:27 yup Jul 08 17:44:45 right now it just highlights Jul 08 17:44:55 ~seen FireFox16 Jul 08 17:44:57 firefox16 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 13h 18m 6s ago, saying: 'damn :('. Jul 08 17:45:04 I wish xchat would highlight the entire line, so you can actually see it when scrolling back through hours of text. Jul 08 17:45:12 yup Jul 08 17:45:32 lcuk: fiferboy: So do you have any ideas how to fix this? I have to write a workaround in my application as I can't redeploy Qt on the tons of devices we have, until later. Jul 08 17:46:00 As lcuk says, maybe it could be done during the first painting rather than first click. Jul 08 17:46:06 Where is it called from right now? Jul 08 17:46:07 well I just flashed my nslu2 with openwrt, I wonder how to make opkg install packages to external usb...... Jul 08 17:46:10 fiferboy, is there an "about to show" event that coldboot could use to request the winid Jul 08 17:46:17 setCentralWidget? Jul 08 17:46:40 fiferboy: I'm not sure where it's called from. Antonio said to look at setFocusWidget(), and that's where I found the problem. Jul 08 17:46:56 I'll check it out, hold on Jul 08 17:47:08 It has been a long four weeks. ;) Jul 08 17:47:17 hey all, there was a post on tablet-talks about it possible to get DVB-H streams on the nokia but not DVB-T, has anyone here tried DVB-T at all? Jul 08 17:47:22 Good on you for figuring it out, though Jul 08 17:48:30 Well Antonio pointed me pretty much to where it was. Jul 08 17:48:32 But thanks. Jul 08 17:48:39 coldboot: What sourcefile is that in? QAbstractItemView.cpp? Jul 08 17:49:04 fiferboy: Which thing do you mean? Jul 08 17:49:21 The first pastebin link you sent Jul 08 17:49:36 The source files are in the comments: http://pastie.org/538825 Jul 08 17:49:47 Comments above the function bodies. Jul 08 17:49:52 Gotcha, thanks Jul 08 17:55:44 fiferboy: setFocusWidget() is called in a lot of places. Jul 08 17:56:28 I guess it's called when you click on the widget... Jul 08 17:56:43 coldboot: Yes. The first time it is called on the QAbstractItemView object it installs an EventFilter, and this is what cuases the flicker Jul 08 17:56:49 So for hildon, we need to ask for the winId on creation. Jul 08 17:57:17 Subsequent calls do not create the EventFilter, until the object is destroyed and created Jul 08 17:57:56 The problem is, setFocusWidget is just overloaded from QInputContext, and there is no equivalent for creation Jul 08 17:58:13 Just to be clear, you comment out `sendHildonCommand(HILDON_IM_SETCLIENT, w);' in the QHildonInputContext:setFocusWidget() function, while still leaving the eventFilter to be installed, the flickering goes away. Jul 08 17:58:27 fiferboy: Yeah, you're right, that is the problem. Jul 08 17:59:17 Ah, there doesn't seem to be a place to put a winId() call, then. Jul 08 17:59:38 And we don't want to force all widgets to be native, I've already tried that and it slows down the whole application even on Scratchbox 2. Jul 08 18:00:26 coldboot: You are right, it is not the EventFilter, but sendHildonCommand Jul 08 18:00:35 Same general problem, though Jul 08 18:02:20 Does hildon call setFocusWidget() on any widget that is clicked, or only for widgets it knows will need focus when clicked? For example, when clicking a QPushButton, hildon doesn't seem like it would need to have focus on it. Jul 08 18:02:32 i thought the intent now was a quick fix for this specific situation, can't you just add a handler for the paint event (as a test) and request the winid there Jul 08 18:02:53 after the first time the winid will be initialized so it wont be bad performance wise and may get round the issue Jul 08 18:03:00 coldboot: It is only on widgets that need keyboard focus, I think Jul 08 18:03:44 lcuk: I've just learned that we can actually redeploy Qt quite easily. I'll try the paintEvent workaround though. Jul 08 18:04:35 fiferboy: So for widgets that need keyboard focus, we could have them converted to native on creation. Jul 08 18:04:45 Or find a way to have hildon send events without having the widget to be native. Jul 08 18:06:55 Could the hildon keyboard, since it's outside of the Qt application, send its events to a single native eventHandler, that will then forward the events on to the alien widget in question? Jul 08 18:07:22 That way we don't have to make all keyboard focusable widgets native. Jul 08 18:07:42 I don't know about the internals of HildonInputMethod (HIM) Jul 08 18:08:12 I'm not sure, but isn't that what qhildoninputcontext_x11 is doing? Jul 08 18:09:53 Can you comment out single functions from sendHildonCommand and see if removing a single line removes the flicker? Jul 08 18:10:07 I did already Jul 08 18:10:18 It's this line: msg->input_window = widget->winId(); Jul 08 18:10:45 The problem is that sendHildonCommand() merely forwarding raw X events to the widget, for that it needs the winId(). Jul 08 18:10:59 msg is type HildonIMActivateMessage, where is that defined? Jul 08 18:11:04 hi i bought a nokia n810 Jul 08 18:11:13 It doesn't look like it is in qhildoninputcontext anywhere Jul 08 18:11:16 and i update to maemo 2008 version diablo Jul 08 18:11:42 how i can install nmap to meamo 08 Jul 08 18:11:44 src/gui/inputmethod/qhildoninputmethodprotocol.h:137 Jul 08 18:12:32 Hildon should have some interpreter that converts the raw X events to Qt keyboard and mouse events so the widgets don't have to be native X windows. Jul 08 18:13:22 I think that would work Jul 08 18:13:41 i need help to install nmap in maemo 08 Jul 08 18:14:21 fiferboy: Okay I'm going to have a look to see if I can convert them. Jul 08 18:15:09 coldboot: If you don't mind me asking, what kind of project are you working on? Jul 08 18:19:21 I work at Wireless Generation, we're making a program on a nokia n810 to assess students' reading ability. Jul 08 18:19:32 So a kid reads a book, and you have the book's words on your device. Jul 08 18:19:38 You click the words they screw up, and so on. Jul 08 18:19:43 We also have math tests as well. Jul 08 18:20:02 It's for little kids between kindergarten and grade 3 to make sure they know how to read and do math before it's too late. Jul 08 18:20:02 Cool. Are there many devices that it will be deployed on? Jul 08 18:20:09 Thousands. Jul 08 18:20:29 im helping jake to read with mine Jul 08 18:20:32 write Jul 08 18:20:32 sorry Jul 08 18:20:43 lcuk: With liqbase? Jul 08 18:20:51 yeah :) Jul 08 18:20:58 its even better now i have a webserver and overlays Jul 08 18:22:09 Okay I've found the translateMouseEvent() and translateKeyEvent() for converting X events to Qt events. Jul 08 18:22:22 They're in src/gui/kernel/qapplication_x11.cpp Jul 08 18:22:34 Does the "hildon" thing just send keyboard events? Jul 08 18:22:50 coldboot, digging rather deep - this hildon thing is central to maemo desktop environment Jul 08 18:23:21 hmmm Jul 08 18:24:34 try the quick fix lol Jul 08 18:24:42 it might just work Jul 08 18:24:59 lcuk: So you said to have it call winId() in the paintevent. Jul 08 18:25:22 Wouldn't I have to do that for each widget in question? Jul 08 18:26:07 I think translating the key events is the right way to go, since having natvie widgets hurts overall performance Jul 08 18:26:10 try it on the main thing itself Jul 08 18:26:15 itsj ust a quick test Jul 08 18:26:19 i dunno if it will work Jul 08 18:26:26 I don't see why it wouldn't work. Jul 08 18:26:41 But if you do it for all widgets, it kills performance. Jul 08 18:26:49 Hi Jul 08 18:26:50 It only needs to be done for QAbstractItemView's children. Jul 08 18:27:04 thats why you bung it in the one place you are experiencing problems right now Jul 08 18:27:24 not even all of them ;) you said yourself its only flickering the first time you click on one of the items within Jul 08 18:27:33 just add it to the paint event of the first thing in the list Jul 08 18:28:16 coldboot: that->setAttribute(Qt::WA_DontCreateNativeAncestors); Jul 08 18:28:27 That means per screen I have to add it to the paint event of one QAbstractItemView child. Jul 08 18:28:42 coldboot: Try setting that in the kernel/qwidget.cpp code before the other set attributes call Jul 08 18:29:06 fiferboy: That will screw up hildon, because it won't be able to forward X events, won't it? Jul 08 18:29:37 lcuk: I'm confident your paint fix will work, but I'd still have to add it to the paint event for at least one thing in every screen that we have in the app, and that's still a lot. Jul 08 18:29:59 lcuk: So even though it probably works, it's not really an option. Jul 08 18:30:16 It will still set the winId on the widget you want, I think, just not every widget in the inheritance chain Jul 08 18:30:32 fiferboy: It'll still cause a flicker for that widget, though. Jul 08 18:30:53 fiferboy: If any alien widget is converted to a native widget, we'll see flickering, I'd guess. Jul 08 18:31:16 I commented out the child scanning code, so it didn't go through converting all children. That reduced the flickering, but it still did it once. Jul 08 18:31:21 I think the flickering is caused because it is setting a massive amount of widgets to native all at once Jul 08 18:31:38 That could be possible. Jul 08 18:31:57 What's the best way to have it print so I can count how many times it's being done? Jul 08 18:32:30 qDebug() Jul 08 18:32:30 the n810 works fine now that i reset it to factory defaults :) Jul 08 18:32:43 <- richih Jul 08 18:32:49 But you would have to do it in the QObject setAttribute function, I think Jul 08 18:32:59 fiferboy: Does that only work in the *.so*.debug version? Jul 08 18:33:32 I think I have done it in non-debug libraries Jul 08 18:34:31 lbt: ping? Jul 08 18:50:36 Does anyone know how to show the hildon keyboard in Scratchbox? Jul 08 19:00:49 fiferboy: pong Jul 08 19:01:12 fiferboy: QHildonInputContext::sendHildonCommand() embeds some hildon command in an XEvent, and sends it to the widget. Do you know what the widget does with this command? Jul 08 19:01:16 coldboot: In Qt you can middle click, I think Jul 08 19:01:37 lbt: Do you know anything about HildonInputMethod? Jul 08 19:01:55 not really Jul 08 19:02:24 lbt: coldboot has figured out where the flicker when selecting a QAbstractItemView comes from Jul 08 19:02:35 But I'm not really strong on HIM either Jul 08 19:03:02 just looking at the backlog Jul 08 19:03:13 This receives the event: bool QHildonInputContext::x11FilterEvent(QWidget *keywidget, XEvent *event); Jul 08 19:03:28 So we just need another way to send hildon commands, and we can fix it. Jul 08 19:04:53 Has the maemo team thought about making Maemo a fork off of Qt's git repo? Jul 08 19:05:28 ah... is HIM sending XEvents to the widget Jul 08 19:05:33 Yeah. Jul 08 19:05:34 coldboot, nooooooo! stop forking the whole world Jul 08 19:05:52 coldboot: it is a fork Jul 08 19:05:55 qt-maemo Jul 08 19:06:08 lbt: The problem is that since it wants to send X events to a widget, the widget gets converted to a native X window, which forces a redraw on the widget and all of its children. Jul 08 19:06:11 ugh Jul 08 19:06:12 proxy Jul 08 19:06:37 we need a Qt proxy that talks to HIM and sends to the widget inside Qt Jul 08 19:06:47 yeah that sucks Jul 08 19:08:16 It would seem that qhildoninputcontext_x11.cpp should be able to do that, but instead converts widgets to native x11 windows to receive HIM commands Jul 08 19:09:52 yeah, thinking about it Jul 08 19:10:57 shouldn't it be fine to send the events to the top level window at all times and let Qt propogate them? Jul 08 19:11:12 Does Antonio Aloisso hang out in IRC ever? Jul 08 19:11:19 yes, he's gnuton Jul 08 19:12:00 lbt: I would think that would work, Qt knows what widget has keyboard focus Jul 08 19:13:20 There are some hacks in HIM that cause us other problems - focus based on mouse-release events done deep in the ev loop IIRC Jul 08 19:14:37 I've fetched the latest qt-maemo to merge into qt-mer Jul 08 19:14:41 So maybe instead of sending the widget winId, sending the toplevel application winId would work. Jul 08 19:14:46 yes Jul 08 19:14:58 lbt: Are you going to roll back some of the painter "fixes" in 4.5.2? Jul 08 19:15:05 I was going to look at HIM to solve the issues that break scrolling Jul 08 19:15:27 no... I guess Antonio/Kimitake will fix them as high priority Jul 08 19:15:43 we just need to keep on the beta-test pressure Jul 08 19:15:51 that performance has regressed ;) Jul 08 19:16:01 Qt hates performance regressions Jul 08 19:16:11 and having it recently announced for Harmattan Jul 08 19:16:22 well, we can't have that now can we ;) Jul 08 19:16:27 Actually, the msg->input_window field never gets used in the eventFilter... Jul 08 19:16:35 I noticed about 6 comments in the 4.5.2 changelog that stated speed ups or fixes for raster Jul 08 19:16:46 fiferboy: where? Jul 08 19:16:57 are you using git? Jul 08 19:17:03 if so sha# Jul 08 19:17:24 I just looked through the changelog posted on the release announcement Jul 08 19:17:36 ah Jul 08 19:17:45 you used gitk ? Jul 08 19:17:56 http://www.qtsoftware.com/developer/changes/changes-4.5.2 Jul 08 19:18:17 This causes the bug: `msg->input_window = widget->winId();`, but is never used in QHildonInputContext::x11FilterEvent(), in fact, it's never used in any of the maemo code. Jul 08 19:19:07 Here are all instances of input_window in the source: http://pastie.org/539020 Jul 08 19:20:50 coldboot: have you just removed it and seen if it still works... Jul 08 19:21:06 it may well do so if it sends to the top level X window Jul 08 19:21:20 IIRC gtk has a lot more native X11 windows Jul 08 19:21:25 lbt: I've already tried that, and things do work, but I have to put it on my device and make sure the rest of hildon stuff works. Jul 08 19:21:41 Do you guys have automated tests? Jul 08 19:21:46 me? Jul 08 19:21:59 I mean, does maemo have automated tests for hildon? Jul 08 19:22:09 coldboot: Not that I know of Jul 08 19:22:30 I wonder if there's a Qt test suite Jul 08 19:22:35 lbt: I mean, when I remove those two lines where msg->input_window is set to winId(), the flickering goes away, and nothing else is obviously broken. But I didn't test Hildon. Jul 08 19:23:05 coldboot: You mean HildonInputMethod. That is likely all that would be affected Jul 08 19:23:33 coldboot: does the virtual keyb still work Jul 08 19:23:59 fiferboy: I hope that still works Jul 08 19:24:09 I'll have to compile it for arm, put it on the device, and try it. Jul 08 19:24:15 if the input_window is not sent out then... Jul 08 19:24:20 it's not used Jul 08 19:24:37 It's sent out, it's just never read. Jul 08 19:24:54 It's put in the XEvent::data struct. Jul 08 19:25:04 coldboot: What are the line numbers you took out? Jul 08 19:25:21 for tests #qt says QtTest and http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/trees/master/tests Jul 08 19:25:46 src/gui/inputmethod/qhildoninputcontext_x11.cpp 408 and 1427, from svn version 546... Jul 08 19:26:08 Just search src/gui/inputmethod/qhildoninputcontext_x11.cpp for "input_window" and it's the only two hits. Jul 08 19:26:13 Both lines removed. Jul 08 19:26:17 Thanks Jul 08 19:26:43 This git repo doesn't have qhildoninputcontext_x11.cpp: git://gitorious.org/+qt-maemo-developers/qt/qt-maemo.git Jul 08 19:27:48 coldboot: what branch? Jul 08 19:27:56 try qt-diablo Jul 08 19:28:54 ok, gotta go for a bit ... bbl Jul 08 19:29:07 Thanks Jul 08 19:33:27 There's only the master branch for qt-maemo Jul 08 19:34:15 Well, that's all I get when I do `git branch` after cloning qt-maemo Jul 08 19:35:09 git branch -a Jul 08 19:35:25 You have to clone the origin/4.5 and then qt-diablo Jul 08 19:35:32 http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt#Building_Qt_from_GIT_rep Jul 08 19:35:35 ah Jul 08 19:35:44 Git still confuses me Jul 08 19:36:54 fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches/forcing Jul 08 19:36:54 Did you intend to checkout 'origin/qt-4.5' which can not be resolved as commit? Jul 08 19:37:02 It's awesome, though. Jul 08 19:37:09 There's no reason to use subversion or CVS anymore. Jul 08 19:40:07 Is anyone working on getting fakeroot working for scratchbox 2? Jul 08 19:42:34 git checkout -b 4.5 origin/4.5 Jul 08 19:42:44 That wiki page is a little screwed up, I think Jul 08 19:43:16 * RST38h yawns Jul 08 19:43:22 What's new and exciting? Jul 08 19:44:12 Any good flames? Anyone has been bitching about Nokia not satisfying their expectations lately? Jul 08 19:48:52 RST38h, nokia promised me two hot girls bundled with my last device, and I only got a pair of stylus :( Jul 08 19:49:14 hehe Jul 08 19:49:15 VDVsx: You should interpret it as a suggestion =) Jul 08 19:49:17 * VDVsx hides Jul 08 19:49:55 * RST38h fixed ACBB, ACBW, and ACBL Jul 08 19:51:30 they should rewrite QT in python. Jul 08 19:52:09 in C# to ensure free publicity Jul 08 19:52:24 Does anyone know how I can get one of my git commits into qt-maemo with Gitorious? Jul 08 19:52:36 I obviously don't have permission, but is there some way to queue it up for approval? Jul 08 19:53:01 You can use git diff to make a patch to send into the qt4-maemo mailing list Jul 08 19:53:07 Is your fix working? Jul 08 19:53:34 It's building. :) Jul 08 19:53:53 I'll test it out and send the patch to the mailing list. Jul 08 19:54:25 Sounds good. I hope to read tonight that it works fine and is being implemented! Jul 08 19:55:50 Out of curiosity, though, is there some cool way to submit patches with Gitorious? I think Github has it. Jul 08 19:56:20 I'm not sure about commits, lbt would know Jul 08 19:56:36 You could request membership to qt-maemo-developers on gitorious Jul 08 19:56:44 They even let me join, so they aren't too picky Jul 08 19:56:55 oh cool Jul 08 19:57:04 coldboot: you can request merges at lest Jul 08 19:57:26 A merge with my fork? Jul 08 19:59:15 Ah yes. Cool. Jul 08 19:59:25 Git is really making everything easier for everyone. Jul 08 20:00:44 coldboot: Well, for those who understand it! Jul 08 20:01:26 I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power Jul 08 20:07:20 coldboot: you can create a gitorious clone of qt-maemo Jul 08 20:07:25 and then request a pull Jul 08 20:11:54 ok guys brb, im going to work xD Jul 08 20:22:19 I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power Jul 08 20:25:13 Did I trigger that infobot post with my git mantra? Jul 08 20:25:29 Or was it RichiH joining the channel? Jul 08 20:25:50 richih Jul 08 20:25:55 Ah it's RichiH. Jul 08 20:27:01 it's me, yah Jul 08 20:27:16 timriker hardcoded me into blootbot years ago Jul 08 20:27:23 <|thunder> test Jul 08 20:27:28 fanclub :P Jul 08 20:27:31 which is called infobot, these days Jul 08 20:31:29 coldboot: has to be said. qt-maemo and git is.... unclear Jul 08 20:41:46 hello. can someone help me fine and install the telepathy python api? Jul 08 20:42:54 have you been here: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo Jul 08 20:43:09 Maemo != Telepathy.. Jul 08 20:43:21 lbt I've installed python. Jul 08 20:43:28 I just don't know how to install telepathy on maemo. Jul 08 20:43:48 not a user myself ... but that's a good starting place :) Jul 08 20:43:56 pretty sure telepathy itself is required for maemo Jul 08 20:44:05 does anyone know of any jabber apis for maemo? Jul 08 20:44:16 I just found my lost n810 by ssh and mplayer :D Jul 08 20:44:18 life is good Jul 08 20:44:49 Luke-Jr: it may be, but I need the python api for it :-/. Jul 08 20:45:06 caotic: super Jul 08 20:45:43 tds5016: Telepathy supports XMPP. Jabber is an XMPP service. Jul 08 20:46:06 Luke-Jr: I need to be able to send and receieve messages to and from a jabber server. Jul 08 20:46:17 how would I do this with python, I guess is the question I'm trying to ask. Jul 08 20:46:25 shrug Jul 08 20:46:31 I don't care much for Python Jul 08 20:46:44 unfortunately on this project I have to :-/. Jul 08 20:47:00 I'm certainly not a fan of no semicolons, and no curly braces. Jul 08 20:47:10 it makes it damned near impossible for me to read. Jul 08 20:47:15 but... I need to use it for this :-/. Jul 08 20:48:09 actually, Python tolerates semicolons Jul 08 20:48:34 it does... but it's not standard practice. Jul 08 20:48:36 tds5016: #define BEGIN { :) Jul 08 20:48:40 the curly braces are what really hurt. haha. Jul 08 20:50:18 johnsq: how do I install python libraries on maemo? Jul 08 20:50:50 tds5016: I don't know, pythons is evil :) much more than c++ Jul 08 20:51:24 if only it didn't make using gstreamer so damned easy.... ;-) Jul 08 20:51:25 haha. Jul 08 20:51:53 there isnt nick complete for maemo xchat correct Jul 08 20:53:27 can anyone help me with how to install python libraries in maemo? Jul 08 21:09:06 is there a subversion client for maemo? Jul 08 21:09:23 aye, apt-get install subversion Jul 08 21:09:52 couldn't find package... Jul 08 21:10:09 Maybe I left it in -devel... Jul 08 21:11:17 so how would I install it then? Jul 08 21:11:32 oh, there it is... Jul 08 21:12:47 qwerty12_N810: apparently I needed to run apt-get update ;-) Jul 08 21:12:54 it looks like the last update failed. Jul 08 21:13:09 I need to find python purple, do you know if that is in the repos? Jul 08 21:13:37 apt-cache says no Jul 08 21:14:41 that's what I thoguht. Jul 08 21:14:45 hopefully there is a cython? Jul 08 21:15:02 (browser is busy... would you be awesome and check for me?) Jul 08 21:15:09 er apt-get is busy* Jul 08 21:16:35 sure Jul 08 21:16:57 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/c/cython/ Jul 08 21:17:20 thanks! Jul 08 21:17:38 damn python purple is taking a long time to get outa the repos! Jul 08 21:17:40 thats it. im naming the new maemo help system "Qwerty2000" Jul 08 21:18:20 lcuk: you could do me a huge favor, and instead of putting the energy into that; you could package python purple for me :-D Jul 08 21:18:22 haha, jk Jul 08 21:18:50 python is slow, you could put your energies into helping liqbase Jul 08 21:19:27 liqbase? Jul 08 21:19:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY Jul 08 21:20:03 and the followup if you are curious ;) Jul 08 21:21:44 hmm.... pretty... Jul 08 21:34:17 * xnt14 is killing himself to mount *anything* in openwrt Jul 08 21:56:58 hello. how do I unzip a file in maemo? Jul 08 21:59:07 install zip or does the filemanager support it? Jul 08 22:00:12 apparently I needed to install unzip. Jul 08 22:07:56 Hmm.. anyone know what torx size the N810 screws are? Jul 08 22:09:01 if i said yes id be lying Jul 08 22:09:49 Firebird: chances are that you'll find an answer in http://nmacleod.com/nokia/schematics/ Jul 08 22:10:10 is there a list anywhere of maemo/nokia related blogs? Jul 08 22:11:20 qwerty12_N800, ended up measuring the screw Jul 08 22:11:31 amr: http://planet.maemo.org/ is pretty authoritative (but not complete) Jul 08 22:11:34 heh Jul 08 22:11:37 cheers Jul 08 22:11:56 nokia repair didn't tighten one screw on my N810 :/ the face plate pops off on the bottom left corner Jul 08 22:14:11 seems maemo.org is really getting some Intel projects lately: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/wpasupplicant/ https://garage.maemo.org/projects/connman/ Jul 08 22:14:23 guess icd2 is deprecated Jul 08 22:17:29 why is installing libpurple giving me sooo much shit!? Jul 08 22:18:00 got collabora repo enabled? Jul 08 22:18:27 what is collabora? Jul 08 22:18:37 I guess not then Jul 08 22:18:39 excuse me... I mean python purple. haha. Jul 08 22:18:44 but what is collabora? Jul 08 22:23:30 yet another spambot attacking tmo Jul 08 22:23:55 qwerty12_N810: do you know where I can get git for maemo? Jul 08 22:24:15 git-core is in -devel afaik Jul 08 22:24:43 what is the info for the devel repo? Jul 08 22:24:58 ~extras Jul 08 22:24:59 well, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jul 08 22:25:26 apt-cache doesn't find it :-/. Jul 08 22:26:01 it does on on my nit Jul 08 22:26:08 git-core - fast, scalable, distributed revision control system Jul 08 22:26:15 it does on my nit Jul 08 22:26:45 * lcuk uses it daily Jul 08 22:27:03 and lcuk enjoys it? I've never tried it :) Jul 08 22:27:16 yeah javispedro Jul 08 22:27:35 its got some odd things, but ive not been stung yet Jul 08 22:28:52 there we go. Jul 08 22:29:16 i've always been a svn guy, but I'm tempted by the "each checkout is also a repo" idea Jul 08 22:31:26 https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=902 Jul 08 22:31:34 I'm doing my best to get that to play nice. Jul 08 22:31:44 it's REALLY pissing me off... Jul 08 22:33:48 http://xmpppy.sourceforge.net/ Jul 08 22:34:03 does anyone know how int he hell to get that to install on a maemo device? Jul 08 22:34:13 I'm seriosuly banging my head off of a wall trying to get this to install :-( Jul 08 22:43:03 are there any python developers in here? Jul 08 22:43:20 if I could even get twisted words installed on here, it would be just ducky. Jul 08 22:44:55 tds5016, whats this purple do Jul 08 22:45:24 it's just a jabber library. Jul 08 22:45:28 unfortunately i wont be able to install anything atm, my system is near breaking point and ive got a lot of code needing doing Jul 08 22:46:21 I need to get ANY python library that'll let me play with a jabber server. Jul 08 22:46:49 i dunno Jul 08 22:48:55 do you have any idea why I keep getting the error "no module named distutils.core? Jul 08 22:49:03 when I run python setup.py Jul 08 22:50:19 this on a tablet? Jul 08 22:50:27 yeah. Jul 08 22:50:40 a nokia n810 Jul 08 22:51:23 tds5016, have you installed python2.5-distutils? Jul 08 22:51:38 not yet. haha. Jul 08 22:55:36 "error: invalid python installation: unable to open /usr/lib/python2.5/config/Makefile (No such file or directory) Jul 08 22:55:39 " Jul 08 22:55:44 any idea how to fix that? Jul 08 23:00:45 google says: "You need to install the development package for python. It should be called python2.5-devel or something similar." Jul 08 23:14:19 oh well, it seems that microb-engine 20090207 doesn't like browserd Jul 08 23:14:20 * xnt14 heads home Jul 08 23:14:55 javispedro: that makes you the third to find that out :( Jul 08 23:15:14 MicroB is a mess. Jul 08 23:16:16 i think it could be done, but lots of work, and not sure if 20090207 already got the newer js engine Jul 08 23:18:15 I'd be interested in mounting up a chinook rootfs and dpkg-repacking the browser stuff from there. In theory, I'd be free from browserd and SVN builds of microb-engine'd work. But not sure how much would break :\ Jul 08 23:19:49 was browser-ui oss by then? Jul 08 23:21:20 No, but it didn't depend on browserd. SVN has some old versions of browser-ui but not the chinook, or the diablo ones to my knowledge. The Fremantle one will be OSS AFAIK Jul 08 23:21:50 if the microb src package avalaible in nokia's repo works builds and installs fine (which I'll try tomorrow) I dunno if it may be easier (read: who knows if a little less crazy) to just backport microb svn changes to it Jul 08 23:22:22 :) Jul 08 23:23:30 i want to try to fix #3250 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3250 Jul 08 23:23:47 but i don't know anything about XIM, mozilla nor Xt Jul 08 23:23:50 so it's going to be fun fun fun :D Jul 08 23:26:07 Being monolinguistic, can't say I've ran into that problem :) Jul 08 23:27:04 according to the vote count (2), either the N810 was not a overseas success, or most spanish n810 users are already using sms language Jul 08 23:27:30 (or are using tear, who knows) Jul 08 23:28:19 Actually, I'm surprised: Wouldn't this have shown up for Nokians, considering Finnish is probably their first language? Jul 08 23:28:36 Well, most or many :) Jul 08 23:28:50 anyone able to help me find the telepathy documentation? Jul 08 23:28:51 haha. Jul 08 23:29:05 it looks like the telepathy-python documentation is... non-existent, to say the least. Jul 08 23:29:55 im back Jul 08 23:30:18 woot woot! now I can continue to breathe. Jul 08 23:33:10 afaik the finnish hw keyboard does not have dead keys Jul 08 23:33:10 nope, no dead keys: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZKlSQm2j7TI/R1mNT2kxaII/AAAAAAAABYQ/nQxy4S4u6Wo/s1600-h/Img_0506.jpg Jul 08 23:33:24 bttr gt usd 2 txtspk Jul 08 23:33:38 hehe Jul 08 23:35:47 People who talk like that when they have a proper keyboard in front of them should get slapped (this includes most of the people I know on MSN) Jul 09 00:24:45 wazd, the capabilities i can just about manage are layering of transparent pngs, i can colorshift entire layers and render them at defined position and sizes scaled about a principle 800*480 Jul 09 00:25:20 you have seen examples of the battery, if things are not too technically challenging, we can see if it can be brought to life Jul 09 00:25:57 you could talk with z4chh because he has a number of local data items hes been investigated to be monitored Jul 09 00:26:21 i believe this principle could easily be applied to data of any kind (weather..) :) Jul 09 00:27:04 Is there a way to force the built-in speakers on through software? Jul 09 00:27:21 there should be if you have root :) Jul 09 00:27:28 It seems the jack on my n810 is broken so it always thinks there are headphones plugged in Jul 09 00:27:33 lcuk: that's cool, but I really don't think that weather needs color shifting :D Jul 09 00:27:40 ahh maybe not lol Jul 09 00:27:49 wazd yeah i know Jul 09 00:28:24 i was just thinking about what you said earlier :) im pleased to be getting these pieces in and working as intended Jul 09 00:28:43 i look on my screen every day and i see nicer and nicer things Jul 09 00:29:11 lcuk: I've said bout what?) Jul 09 00:29:28 heh, you said about doing something with the battery Jul 09 00:29:38 lcuk: sorry, it's 4:30 AM in here so my brain is slightly slow :) Jul 09 00:29:51 mine too :) Jul 09 00:30:06 lcuk: Oj, i didn't want to do anything with it, I just wanted to redraw it properly :) Jul 09 00:30:36 there was one part of it i couldnt get right at all Jul 09 00:30:41 and that was the reflection Jul 09 00:31:06 i dont know how to attack it, and my psp is crap with transparency Jul 09 00:31:48 what exactly reflection? Jul 09 00:32:09 floor? Jul 09 00:35:39 yeah Jul 09 00:37:20 Whats wrong with it? Jul 09 00:39:12 there is none in mine, i couldnt get transp sorted Jul 09 00:39:18 anyway, im bedding Jul 09 00:39:22 gnite wazd \o Jul 09 00:39:50 lcuk: cya) Jul 09 01:13:30 http://blog.laptopmag.com/always-innovatings-touch-book-netbook-in-production Jul 09 01:13:40 its not vaporware afterall! Jul 09 01:13:45 haha Jul 09 01:18:20 * xnt14 goes on a walk Jul 09 01:45:39 * xnt14 is back **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 09 02:59:56 2009