**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 12 02:59:57 2009 Jul 12 03:03:41 Luke-Jr, why do you attribute so much sway to Stskeeps? Jul 12 03:08:42 isnt there a remote control aplication for mplayer ? using the console with all the display functions defeats the purpose of a convinient remote control IMO Jul 12 03:10:25 a thumb friendly app would be awesome Jul 12 03:15:48 ~seen Dnab55 Jul 12 03:15:51 b-man16: i haven't seen 'dnab55' Jul 12 03:16:05 heh :P Jul 12 03:23:53 lol Jul 12 03:24:00 i knew you guys should havfe3 used qt with mer Jul 12 03:24:32 http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/07/nokia-adopts-qt-toolkit-for-next-generation-maemo-platform.ars Jul 12 03:24:35 hey b-man! Jul 12 03:24:41 heh Jul 12 03:24:46 * xnt14 is eating right now Jul 12 03:24:56 Quim Gil announced that the application framework in future versions of Nokia's Linux platform will use the Qt toolkit. This change will have a significant impact on the Maemo platform and its third-party developer community. Jul 12 03:24:57 i just dropped in to check irc XD Jul 12 03:25:36 at ftw! Jul 12 03:26:01 er qt too Jul 12 03:27:22 Nokia is also developing an S60 port of Qt which the company is said to be positioning as the dominant toolkit for Symbian Jul 12 03:27:25 woah Jul 12 03:29:07 wiretapped, no im just screwing around with the config files in the default echo theme Jul 12 03:50:43 GeneralAntilles: noticed a bug in Advanced Backlight while working on my stuff this weekend. If the volume is a positive (1 or higher) setting and an app other than Advanced Backlight sets the volume to a negative number, then it seems Advanced Backlight causes the volume to be set to zero. To test, set the volume to 100, then mute. Then set a short alarm in OSSO clock. When the alarm goes off, Jul 12 03:51:24 either alarmd or systemui sets the volume to a positive value. When the alarm is dismissed, it tries to set it back to the negative value. Check Advanced Backlight and the volume is zero. Jul 12 03:51:42 Doesn't happen with the bundled volume control plugin. Jul 12 03:52:16 what's a negative volume supposed to be Jul 12 03:52:44 Negative volume is how the system records muting. "-100" is muted "100". "-50" is muted "50". Jul 12 03:53:45 ah Jul 12 03:57:07 are there any developers here for maemo apps? Jul 12 03:59:58 troy, I'll file it on b.m.o and see if I can reproduce tomorrow. Jul 12 04:00:00 Thanks! Jul 12 04:16:14 prak: Lots Jul 12 04:47:06 troy: are you one of them? Jul 12 04:47:57 you guys better jumjp on teh qt bandwagon Jul 12 05:02:11 hey everyone... Jul 12 05:03:52 hi Jul 12 05:05:02 So Ed what are you up to? Jul 12 05:05:47 no mucho... Jul 12 05:05:53 cool Jul 12 05:06:13 wondering if anything is going to be developed for my n810 now with n900 and Mameo moving to Qt Jul 12 05:06:25 I just wish my linux would extrct rars it's a pain to goto my windows computer lol. Jul 12 05:06:34 brainy142: unrar Jul 12 05:06:41 ya... I have that already Jul 12 05:06:45 apt-get install unrar Jul 12 05:07:11 worked in ubuntu but.... failed in.. one sec forgot what I'm using lol Jul 12 05:09:15 I'm pretty sure I'm using deban Jul 12 05:09:57 yup it's deban Jul 12 05:10:11 I'l try reinstalling the package Jul 12 05:13:57 well it's working now at least :D Jul 12 05:29:17 prak:Yes Jul 12 05:34:16 EdLin: Harmattan is a way off yet. On the n800 and n810 GTK is still the way to go since the cost of the QT libraries (both Flash and RAM footprint) is a litle on the heavy side. Jul 12 05:34:52 troy: nice to know that my n810 will have a little bit of support left then Jul 12 05:38:50 Hey, I'm not sure if this has already been said somewhere, will the 'next' maemo os run on n8x0? Jul 12 05:40:11 Nokia will only be making it for the n900 and, presumably, later devices. Jul 12 05:42:10 oh, that sucks. heh, I thought freemantle would run on my n810 Jul 12 05:43:29 They're saying it will be "community supported" or something along those lines. Jul 12 06:42:01 hiya, i have turbo debian install... I messed up the install so i deleted the files and...well the internal mmc2 is only showing ~400mbs free with nothing on it... Jul 12 06:45:00 Guess thats not a question... How do i get that space back... Preferablly not reflashing. Jul 12 06:46:25 Is it safe to reformat the internal mmc? And if so what file system ext2? Jul 12 07:17:10 When Harmattan arrives, Nokia intends to turn over the responsibility for supporting GTK+ on Maemo to the community. Jul 12 07:17:17 lol Jul 12 08:21:26 echo djdjd Jul 12 09:11:56 morning all Jul 12 09:14:08 mornin aquatix Jul 12 10:18:01 Macer: what's funny about that? Jul 12 11:07:34 hello, I would like to know if anybody found the smartq5 kernel .config and/or knows how customly patched it is from the vanilla sources Jul 12 11:07:56 r4ph431: i think you're in the wrong channel, #mer might apply better :P Jul 12 11:08:11 ok, thank you :) Jul 12 11:17:31 inz: how is the pannable xterm supposed to work exactly? Jul 12 11:19:35 finger touch scrolling with kinetics Jul 12 11:19:45 it was on the devices in cph Jul 12 11:20:50 ~seen melmoth Jul 12 11:20:52 melmoth was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 243d 18h 45m 2s ago, saying: 'otherwise, you will have to recompile the plugin coming from free desktop, but, against the library avaialble in scatchbox, wich may be ...tricky'. Jul 12 11:21:19 243days to recompile something! Jul 12 11:22:16 swig maintainer... Jul 12 11:24:40 hihi Jul 12 11:26:52 javispedro: infobot is a bit thick, he was here y/day Jul 12 11:27:22 was going to pm him anyway since he was at tmo too Jul 12 12:01:18 * lcuk throws a coin high in the air and ponders whether to code or not this afternoon Jul 12 12:02:16 did it land yet? Jul 12 12:04:50 * timelys wanders into finncon2009 Jul 12 12:11:39 timeless_mbp: because compared to the look of qt based stuff.. gtk looks and feels horrible Jul 12 12:30:40 Maker, yeah well... Jul 12 12:38:34 Afternoon Jul 12 12:40:01 afternoon Jul 12 12:40:25 hi Jul 12 12:42:39 Stskeeps: better hurry and move over to qt Jul 12 12:42:42 before you miss the boat Jul 12 12:43:06 oh we know Jul 12 12:43:13 we already have qt for maemo you know :P Jul 12 12:43:26 having it and using it are 2 different things ;) Jul 12 12:43:38 i didn't know nokia was going to qt up symbian Jul 12 12:43:40 thank god :) Jul 12 12:43:40 haha Jul 12 12:43:57 * lbt wonders who will have Qt desktop first... Mer or Harmattan ? Jul 12 12:43:59 that should be a promising os. hope they don't mess it up Jul 12 12:44:06 haha Jul 12 12:44:09 i hope mer Jul 12 12:44:10 :) Jul 12 12:44:16 so i can put it on my touch book Jul 12 12:45:16 i was looking at the pics of the tablet based stuff for the touch book and it kind of reminded me of that qtablet stuff you showed me Jul 12 12:45:30 but that can't be so because i am pretty sure when docked to the keyboard it was using xfce Jul 12 12:46:15 the cigarette withdrawal symptoms are diminishing Jul 12 13:06:28 qwerty12_N810, i built libgcc for uclibc profile and busybox from chroot works against it Jul 12 13:06:42 from initfs that is Jul 12 13:06:46 err Jul 12 13:06:53 busybox in chroot from initfs Jul 12 13:07:03 from initfs in chroot Jul 12 13:07:08 smth like that Jul 12 13:07:31 lol, nice Jul 12 13:07:46 slonopotamus: if you can note it on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3373 i'm sure fanoush would pick up on it Jul 12 13:08:14 also, what versions of gcc + uclibc? Jul 12 13:08:50 gcc-4.4.0, uclibc-0.9.30.1 Jul 12 13:10:39 good, so my hunch was right so far :P that uclibc would be backwards compatible and probably used the nokia patches for eabi Jul 12 13:10:54 Good to see a newer gcc works, nokia was using 3.4.4 Jul 12 13:12:06 Nokia patches? As in Nokia actually released (*gasp*) something? Jul 12 13:12:40 * ShadowJK isn't so convinced about running QT on N8x0 Jul 12 13:13:03 well, or whatever made eabi work Jul 12 13:13:07 unless you can get rid of GTK entirely, it'll just slow down things alot to have GTK+QT on memory starved devices :/ Jul 12 13:13:49 Maybe they did it themselves. Nokia isn't keen on releasing jack shit Jul 12 13:14:04 mm Jul 12 13:15:03 I've tried and failed at getting my n800 to create ttyUSB0 Jul 12 13:15:05 in dev Jul 12 13:15:09 so. that possibly means we can rebuild initfs. dunmo why, however :) Jul 12 13:15:40 slonopotamus: well it opens up a lot of interesting possibilities Jul 12 13:15:58 slonopotamus: If you're Luke-Jr, you want everything free :D Jul 12 13:15:59 does anyone have usb serial working with ftdi? Jul 12 13:16:17 qwerty12_N810, i'm not sure i want initfs at all Jul 12 13:16:31 slonopotamus: it makes sense when we want to do FIASCO images and such. Jul 12 13:16:32 slonopotamus: root=1f04 :) Jul 12 13:16:41 yeah, what qwerty sai Jul 12 13:16:41 d Jul 12 13:16:41 anyone? Jul 12 13:16:42 :P Jul 12 13:16:49 qwerty12_N810, except for bme and bootmenu, there isn't anything useful Jul 12 13:17:10 Stskeeps, i'm not sure i want fiasco image Jul 12 13:18:26 either way, could you document the steps to get to that point somewhere? Jul 12 13:18:29 ideally in the bug report Jul 12 13:20:19 has anyone had usbserial/ftdi_sio create ttyUSB0 in /dev ? Jul 12 13:20:29 did you enable host mode? Jul 12 13:20:34 yes I did Jul 12 13:20:46 using usbcontrol -> host mode Jul 12 13:20:55 now i get unsure if it even has udev Jul 12 13:21:20 * kkrusty looks for a pastebin Jul 12 13:22:02 I hope Im not sucking you into trying to solve this problem Jul 12 13:22:11 also, is it connected to a powered usb hub? Jul 12 13:22:47 Stskeeps: do I have to connect it to anything? Jul 12 13:22:55 * kkrusty feels stupid Jul 12 13:23:00 does it show up in lsusb? :P Jul 12 13:23:13 i'm too lazy for that :) 1. install gentoo. 2. emerge crossdev 3. build crosstoolchain: crossdev armv6j-gentoo-linux-uclibceabi 4. emerge crossdev-wrappers 5. emerge-armv6j-gentoo-linux-uclibceabi -v1 =sys-devel/gcc-4.4* 6. copy /usr/armv6j-gentoo-linux-uclibceabi/ to tablet. 7. copy busybox from initfs into it 8. chroot. Jul 12 13:23:20 Stskeeps, ^ Jul 12 13:23:27 Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Jul 12 13:23:35 Stskeeps, now tweak to your tools Jul 12 13:23:39 Im not sure I know what Im looking at Jul 12 13:24:01 krutt: doesn't look connected Jul 12 13:24:18 :/ Jul 12 13:24:48 Stskeeps: I havent connected the usb to anything TBH. Do I need to in order to have the device file created? Jul 12 13:25:07 slonopotamus: step 1 kinda puts a downer on the rest for me Jul 12 13:25:11 bme_RX-34 --help works :) Jul 12 13:25:33 qwerty12_N810, i have no idea how you create cross toolchains in other distros Jul 12 13:25:52 qwerty12_N810, use whatever tools your distro has Jul 12 13:26:14 dmesg http://pastebin.com/mc7e058a Jul 12 13:26:38 qwerty12_N810, the point is that given toolchain with given versions produces working env Jul 12 13:26:56 slonopotamus: Heh, I'm just taking the piss. It actually seems like a plus here :) Jul 12 13:28:00 qwerty12_N810, it's extremely easy to create toolchains in gentoo. just `crossdev $CTARGET` Jul 12 13:28:19 slonopotamus: can you test if text2screen or the likes link OK? Jul 12 13:29:15 Stskeeps, why it shouldn't? Jul 12 13:29:31 slonopotamus: checking for pitfalls :) Jul 12 13:31:14 original text2screen happily draws letters Jul 12 13:31:19 Stskeeps: so any idea from the paste? Do I have to have it connected to something? Jul 12 13:32:08 slonopotamus: thanks Jul 12 13:32:47 kkrusty, what are you trying to do? Jul 12 13:33:23 ShadowJK: well the big picture is to be able to communicate between an arduino and n800 over usb serial Jul 12 13:33:39 What kind of cable is that? Jul 12 13:34:02 ShadowJK: http://blog.locationist.net/2008/03/16/arduino-interaction/ Jul 12 13:34:56 ShadowJK: briefly I installed usbcontrol, set it to host mode and then insmod-ed usbserial.ko and ftdi_sio.ko Jul 12 13:35:13 all this over ssh without a usb cable Jul 12 13:35:27 Im not sure I understand how the usb cable becomes relevant in all this Jul 12 13:35:44 Well in general, if the arduino has a serial port and you have a cable with built in usb-serial converter, then connecting the cable to N8x0 should make device show up. If the arduino has a USB port to which you connect a cable, then you need to have teh cable connected to both the N8x0 and the arduino Jul 12 13:35:48 my objective is to have the ttyUSB0 device created after which I will use the cable Jul 12 13:36:14 It will not create the device with no cable at all Jul 12 13:36:29 ShadowJK: right. Thats the answer I was looking for Jul 12 13:36:34 kkrusty: just out of curiosity, which ftdi dongle you got or? using for general purpose io? Jul 12 13:37:35 okay I havent looked a lot into the cable stuff because I didnt know you need one to create the ttyUSB0 device Jul 12 13:37:38 qwerty12_N810, slonopotamus: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3373#c15 accurate? Jul 12 13:37:56 reading... Jul 12 13:37:58 I thought any usb cable would do Jul 12 13:38:13 with the appropriate ends Jul 12 13:39:04 Stskeeps, smth like that. i think we don't want their toolchain Jul 12 13:39:23 slonopotamus: legally they have to give uclibc to us, at least :P Jul 12 13:39:28 but anyway, that wasn't my focus Jul 12 13:40:10 focus is to actually make crap work :P Jul 12 13:40:15 Stskeeps: and busybox. their legal page has a really nice section on lawsuits Jul 12 13:40:21 ah, yeah Jul 12 13:40:34 so is there any way I could use the usb cable that came with the n800 to serial com with a PC? Jul 12 13:40:44 ShadowJK: I got rid of GTK entirely Jul 12 13:41:24 Stskeeps: they don't need to give it to us as patchsets ;) Jul 12 13:43:46 kkrusty, no I don't think so Jul 12 13:44:03 ShadowJK: so what kind of cable am I looking for/ Jul 12 13:44:03 ? Jul 12 13:44:20 Stskeeps: I don't want it to be construed as an excuse for Nokia to continue doing fuck-all, however. Jul 12 13:44:26 qwerty12_N810: yeah, i know Jul 12 13:44:32 according to wikipedia there are both arduinos with serial ports and arduinos with usb ports, so I guess it'd depend on that Jul 12 13:45:14 ShadowJK: The arduino that I have has a usb but it communicates with the pc using serial over usb Jul 12 13:45:37 It's likely that it has USB-serial converter onboard Jul 12 13:45:53 so I would guess that a USB cable that fits the connectors would be enough then Jul 12 13:47:38 ShadowJK: okay I think I'll try getting the right cable first Jul 12 13:47:53 thanks a lot for the help Jul 12 13:48:22 I'll possibly come back when I have the cable :D Jul 12 13:48:46 Stskeeps, legally they have to give. but looks like we don't need it Jul 12 13:49:23 qwerty12_N810: if they don't adhere we just grab slashdot ; Jul 12 13:49:24 ;) Jul 12 13:49:35 Luke-Jr, what do you think about building uclibc-based system for tablet? :) Jul 12 13:50:38 I suspect it doesn't play well together with qt :) Jul 12 13:50:42 moo all Jul 12 13:50:47 Stskeeps, technically, they could ask you to send an SAE and 12 floppydisks along wit ha postal order for �10 Jul 12 13:51:10 ShadowJK, not sure Jul 12 13:52:25 lcuk: yes, they could Jul 12 13:53:21 lcuk: that would just make them anal-retentive as the source to the busybox used in diablo is available easily Jul 12 13:54:00 lol, it would be kinda cool if that was the only way to get it tho Jul 12 13:54:02 qwerty12_N810: besides that we aren't going to see anything on this side of july anyway :P Jul 12 13:54:13 as they're on holidays Jul 12 13:54:37 Luke-Jr, how's bme reversing goes? i finished fb_text2screen, wanna take next target :) Jul 12 13:58:55 how is libcal read/writing going? :P Jul 12 14:01:41 uclibc works with qt Jul 12 14:07:26 Woohoo, I have (hacky) in-foreground-updates-only working. Jul 12 14:07:46 woo Jul 12 14:08:02 * Stskeeps really needs a proper torx driver to fix his n810 Jul 12 14:18:03 hey Jul 12 14:29:29 is there any ETA at all for the n900? Jul 12 14:32:21 my guess: september, nokia world Jul 12 14:36:58 Hi Jul 12 14:38:02 Stskeeps, libcal... what do you want from it? that api that you showed is very low level and requires you to know where what is stored Jul 12 14:38:39 slonopotamus: well, basically some way to read and write to it Jul 12 14:38:47 ideally without smashing your tablet Jul 12 14:39:03 i'll make some shared lib to avoid copypasting in wlan-cal/cat-tool Jul 12 14:39:17 s/cat/cal/ Jul 12 14:39:17 slonopotamus meant: i'll make some shared lib to avoid copypasting in wlan-cal/cal-tool Jul 12 14:39:35 k Jul 12 14:41:12 Stskeeps, the question is do we want single entry point like dsme server or just a shared lib and some file-based(?) lock mechanism Jul 12 14:41:42 always a good question.. Jul 12 14:42:34 Kernel module :) Jul 12 14:42:46 need to search if mtd supports locking Jul 12 14:43:48 any idea why Xephyr shows only 5 fonts (fixed, luxi ... and nil)? Jul 12 14:44:11 Luke-Jr, johnsq, https://bugs.gentoo.org/262912 someone else is playing with gentoo on n810 :) Jul 12 14:46:35 yes i wanted arm-softfloat-linux-uclibcgnueabi Jul 12 14:46:38 http://cvs.tuxbox.org/tuxbox/apps/misc/tools/mtd/lock.c?rev=1.1&view=markup mtd definitely has locking Jul 12 14:46:56 but it didn't build :( Jul 12 14:47:08 johnsq, 'it'? Jul 12 14:47:20 johnsq, you don't want softfloat Jul 12 14:47:53 johnsq, you want armv6[j,l]-gentoo-linux-[gnu,uclibc]eabi Jul 12 14:47:57 slonopotamus: the uclibc crosscompiler toolset. i give than up Jul 12 14:48:34 johnsq, i built ~arm armv6j-gentoo-linux-uclibceabi toolchain yesterday Jul 12 14:48:51 johnsq, stable uclibc didn't build, btw Jul 12 14:49:35 slonopotamus: same idea! I giveup, still enough other projects laying around. Jul 12 14:49:54 but using uclibc means more chances something fails to build Jul 12 14:51:06 slonopotamus: every developer should compile his app not only with gnu stuff. Jul 12 14:52:29 johnsq, huh. tell that to perl and python developers Jul 12 14:53:37 slonopotamus: this should fix it, they both want world domination. Jul 12 14:53:46 /this/they Jul 12 15:00:31 especially perl. it doesn't support crosscompilation at all Jul 12 15:07:32 Somebody want to clear up this for me: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=16500&page=2 Jul 12 15:07:39 Apparently I don't have the patience. Jul 12 15:23:37 Jaffa, how did you work round it then Jul 12 15:41:30 lcuk: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-July/019941.html Jul 12 15:42:00 lcuk: basically, can you polling during the frequent updates to detect going into the background, and focus-in-event to detect coming back to the foreground Jul 12 15:42:42 s/can you/you can/ Jul 12 15:42:42 Jaffa meant: lcuk: basically, you can polling during the frequent updates to detect going into the background, and focus-in-event to detect coming back to the foreground Jul 12 15:42:47 that might be useful for other things, good to know you found a workround Jul 12 15:43:03 i use something similar already for showing/hiding the xz overlay Jul 12 15:43:17 xv even Jul 12 16:00:53 * Jaffa summarises current community SSU plan (corrections welcome): http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=304018&postcount=35 Jul 12 16:01:12 * Stskeeps looks Jul 12 16:01:30 Stskeeps: in response to your response about it ;-) Jul 12 16:02:42 except i'm willing to bet you're going to get nothing done the next month, as we will need to pull on the expertise of marius volmer, who i'm almost betting will be on vacation Jul 12 16:02:56 except if i can find that post he made.. hmm Jul 12 16:03:43 http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg18585.html is relevant for the post too Jul 12 16:03:55 well, okay, that's you, not the post i was looking for. Jul 12 16:03:56 :P Jul 12 16:04:20 but the right thread :) Jul 12 16:04:34 Stskeeps: indeed. Jul 12 16:04:58 * Jaffa counts on no volunteers apart from the people who've already discussed it here and/or we'd expect to be involved anyway Jul 12 16:06:00 as for my participation i'm running off to debconf to attract more users to the platform 23-31 :P Jul 12 16:06:06 and i think jeremiah will be same spot Jul 12 16:06:31 Cool. Jul 12 16:07:07 but yes, the plan looks fine Jul 12 16:07:25 provided there's no nasty hardcodings in HAM Jul 12 16:09:21 one thing to keep in mind: a SSU is a repository containing all the packages and versions as they should be. that needs to be investigated. because if we have to provide a full repository, we will have to deal with same issues as with Mer, having to hide it behind a EULA Jul 12 16:09:43 and deal with the 3rd party bits as well Jul 12 16:09:54 if we can just make a partial repository, then that's fine Jul 12 16:10:25 Stskeeps: true, good point. Jul 12 16:10:41 and that's the legally awkward part :) Jul 12 16:11:02 Stskeeps: I imagine we can just make an osso-software-version which depends on higher revisions; then, once community-updates is installed they'll be satisfiable. Jul 12 16:11:13 yeah - i hope that's how it works Jul 12 16:11:23 Just because Nokia's SSU is a full overcomplication doesn't mean ours should have to be ( it just worries me that they provide a whole repository :) Jul 12 16:12:12 qwerty12: how intimate are you with HAM these days? Jul 12 16:12:29 (wanting to beat it up is fine) Jul 12 16:12:58 Stskeeps, not a fan but I understand it well Jul 12 16:13:34 qwerty12: the key signing stuff is just an addition to a list and a key or something or how was it? if we have to make it SSUable Jul 12 16:14:06 ... Jul 12 16:14:09 dudes Jul 12 16:14:37 debian already has upgrading facilities. why you're reinventing the wheel? Jul 12 16:14:51 slonopotamus: oh, we're not reinventing the wheel Jul 12 16:14:51 Stskeeps, yep, one added by apt-key and one by hildon-application-manager-config Jul 12 16:15:01 qwerty12: okay, so 1) on the list is fairly trivial Jul 12 16:15:19 Stskeeps, just make apt-get dist-upgrade work Jul 12 16:15:20 just involves logistics and getting in touch with various people handling the maemo.org repositories Jul 12 16:15:29 slonopotamus: mer upgrades work just fine :P Jul 12 16:15:38 ahha Jul 12 16:15:39 Extras already has keys, I would assume that its trust level just needs raising Jul 12 16:15:40 slonopotamus: either way, SSU is similar to ubuntu's editing your release name Jul 12 16:15:56 qwerty12: mm - i presume it's not on component level Jul 12 16:16:09 i see how mer users reflash it every week or so :P Jul 12 16:16:20 slonopotamus: that's just cos it's so fun to hack Jul 12 16:16:20 :P Jul 12 16:16:37 something makes me jitter a bit over extras and not only that component being trusted Jul 12 16:17:05 apologies to thopiekar over there, but if extras gained SSU status and not only that component, it would be a disaster :) Jul 12 16:17:25 so that needs to be taken into account as well Jul 12 16:17:31 Yes, I agree and raised that issue the last time Jul 12 16:17:33 Maybe it's not a component, maybe a new dist? Jul 12 16:17:44 wuch .. missed something? Jul 12 16:17:49 same thing, a key is the repository itself Jul 12 16:18:09 thopiekar: nah, it's fine, we're just discussing the pitfalls of extras as the SSU spot :) Jul 12 16:18:21 oki :P Jul 12 16:18:44 Jaffa: as far as i recall only way to do it is to have r.m.o/community instead Jul 12 16:19:02 A "repository.maemo.org/updates" would probably be a lot easier in terms of addition to both maemo.org and ham Jul 12 16:19:06 Stskeeps: Sorry, I meant dist, i.e. http://repository.maemo.org/community-updates diablo free non-free Jul 12 16:19:12 yes, like that Jul 12 16:19:52 poor binary users :P Jul 12 16:20:20 mysqlf, I'm starting to be weary o fa whole SSU, and would be happy with plain "aptitude safe-upgrade" Jul 12 16:20:49 javispedro, it's too simple for maemo Jul 12 16:21:25 The SSU repo also has a higher sort-weight than Extras which is why I think another repo with a higher sort weight would be easier - by increasing Extras' sort-weight, you are also increasing the sort-weight for packages in free etc Jul 12 16:24:08 * slonopotamus wonders what'll happen if someone uploads newer osso-software-rx* to exras Jul 12 16:24:37 I guess h-a-m'll refuse to install a newer osso-software-rx* if all of the depending packages are not on the same repo, trust-level, or whatever Jul 12 16:24:59 and that's the reason doing a full SSU requires so much work? Jul 12 16:25:07 javispedro: a osso-software-rx does not have to be all dependancies i guess Jul 12 16:25:12 but that's another thing Jul 12 16:26:55 Jaffa: at least the SSU stuff is a prime example of why community isn't just site work/infrastructure but also outreach and facilitation :P Jul 12 16:39:51 Stskeeps: yup Jul 12 16:40:10 javispedro: Doing a full SSU requires so much work because Nokia's QA is resource intensive and limited. Jul 12 16:40:40 By doing a whole repo per SSU, it becomes easier to test the upgrade; as the previous versions of all packages are known. Jul 12 16:41:29 Not an issue in a community update for two reasons: 1) we're not going to be doing lots, just bits of simple apps probably; 2) we don't get a support bill if someone needs to reflash or loses all their docs Jul 12 16:45:23 2) could be interesting if it did actually happen :P Jul 12 16:47:26 * javispedro sues Mer for bricking his tablet the first time he tried to install it, because he's an idiot and didn't use bootmenu Jul 12 16:47:42 except we did actually say no warranty Jul 12 16:47:42 :P Jul 12 16:48:21 * javispedro bends over and takes it up the tail pipe :D Jul 12 16:49:34 i dont think nokia charger fits in there Jul 12 16:49:55 the car charger might Jul 12 16:49:57 Talking from experience? ;) Jul 12 16:50:16 not direct, i read it on some blog Jul 12 16:50:42 faheem.london.blogspot or somethin Jul 12 16:51:18 Fuck. That's me caught out. It's true: I love to have Nokia chargers giving me buttsechs. Jul 12 16:51:29 shocking! Jul 12 16:52:19 I would've thought the blog be called "manchesterunplugged" Jul 12 16:52:44 lol Jul 12 16:53:00 qwerty12, open your window and listen carefully, I'm testing a new amp Jul 12 16:53:54 .. Jul 12 16:54:45 * lcuk can hear icecreamvan Jul 12 16:58:12 * javispedro is deaf cause his amd athlon needs an industrial fan Jul 12 17:07:00 is it me or is maemo.org unusable from the tablet ? Jul 12 17:07:10 heh :) Jul 12 17:07:39 melmoth: most of us use Tear these days, then it's better :P Jul 12 17:10:08 melmoth: thanks for your email! Jul 12 17:10:23 it didn't realize scratchbox's maemo devkit had its own evil copy of swig Jul 12 17:10:31 s/it/I/ Jul 12 17:10:31 javispedro meant: I didn't realize scratchbox's maemo devkit had its own evil copy of swig Jul 12 17:10:48 hi javispedro ! Jul 12 17:11:19 javispedro, what are you planning to code ? Jul 12 17:11:31 port pybox2d Jul 12 17:11:39 and Elements Jul 12 17:12:39 never heard of em. Jul 12 17:12:39 * melmoth google a bit Jul 12 17:13:45 it's what numptyphysics uses, in its C incarnation Jul 12 17:13:52 (AFAIK) Jul 12 17:14:48 i see Jul 12 17:15:12 what relation with the sword engine ? Jul 12 17:15:52 none afaik, just that it needed a more recent version of swig Jul 12 17:16:13 ahah, ok :-) Jul 12 17:16:46 you saw the sbox_redirect trick ? Jul 12 17:16:49 yep Jul 12 17:17:02 and thanks again cause it already built ! :D Jul 12 17:17:05 cool, i bet it may help. Jul 12 17:30:12 Stskeeps, pannable xterm? I've never heard of such thing Jul 12 17:30:53 inz: osso-xterm, newest version has the screen pannable for scrolling, .. or at least i think so Jul 12 17:31:47 Stskeeps, well, I've had nothing to do with it =) Jul 12 17:31:52 alright Jul 12 18:09:49 jo booxter Jul 12 18:10:10 hi woglinde;) Jul 12 18:24:55 hi. is there a way to get an appliction to be in a different maemo menu? Jul 12 18:24:59 UNDEFINED SYMBOLS: r1 Jul 12 18:25:04 * RST38h is at loss Jul 12 18:25:41 application* Jul 12 18:27:32 you mean, like "my selection" instead of extras? Jul 12 18:27:36 EdLin: Control Panel -> Panels -> (Applications) Organise (if I understood you correctly) Jul 12 18:29:14 thanks Jul 12 18:33:45 * xnt14 sets up his new server xD Jul 12 18:33:56 hmm Jul 12 18:34:29 why did nobody yet uploaded a stub "python-runtime" package to extras (as in Fremantle)? Does it break a shitload of packages? Jul 12 18:34:41 hmm.... Jul 12 18:34:59 (I mean, in Diablo we still have the python2.5-* mess instead of python-) Jul 12 18:35:25 javispedro, there is no extras for fremantle lol Jul 12 18:35:42 s/extras/extras-devel then Jul 12 18:35:56 also, no python-support Jul 12 18:35:57 :D Jul 12 18:36:01 :( Jul 12 18:36:09 sometimes I just wish Maemo was more like Debian :P Jul 12 18:36:31 sometimes I don't though :D Jul 12 18:36:38 xD Jul 12 18:39:39 http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1299991&cid=28667561 Jul 12 18:39:42 priceless slashdot comment Jul 12 19:10:39 hey folks Jul 12 19:12:04 is there any way to play old (non-DOS) games on the N810? I know that running Win98 emulated doesn't work terribly well, but is there anything similar to Wine that might work? Jul 12 19:12:35 the recommended specs are very conservative (75MHz Pentium, etc.) Jul 12 19:12:40 use mame or c64 emulaator. Jul 12 19:12:49 it's a Windows game, though Jul 12 19:13:05 for Win95 Jul 12 19:13:39 jaem: qemu for x86, don't know how slow it is. Jul 12 19:14:16 johnsq: thanks, I'll try it Jul 12 19:15:12 you should use old ppc documentation for x86 emulation Jul 12 19:17:46