**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 16 02:59:57 2009
Jul 16 03:03:18 <esaym153> b-man16: Jesus loves you
Jul 16 03:03:42 <b-man16> xD
Jul 16 03:03:58 <esaym153> heh
Jul 16 03:04:13 <esaym153> b-man16: sell me your n810
Jul 16 03:04:32 <b-man16> i have an n800, and no xD
Jul 16 03:05:31 <esaym153> dang :(
Jul 16 03:06:55 <b-man16> i'm shure you can find one for under $200 ;)
Jul 16 03:46:04 <sarower> Rubon: Hello rubon
Jul 16 03:46:14 <Rubon> hi Sarower
Jul 16 03:47:52 <sarower> There is a convention ... when give message for a specific person then type the Name first. like "sarower: hi Sarower"
Jul 16 03:48:11 <sarower> Rubon: It is for you
Jul 16 03:49:50 <Rubon> sarower: thanks for your information
Jul 16 04:00:29 <Rubon> is there anyone who used 3D library(either openGL/Clutter) for Maemo?
Jul 16 04:04:51 * b-man16 sleeps, g'night all
Jul 16 04:15:50 <stelleg> anyone know why newer busybox doesn't work in initfs, or why making a really simple initfs makes the kernel unable to find the linuxrc file?
Jul 16 04:29:40 <Macer> awesome
Jul 16 04:29:52 <Macer> g1 wifi adhoc tethering just got wep encryption heh
Jul 16 04:29:58 <Macer> i mean it's only wep but whatever
Jul 16 04:30:13 <Macer> it's better than what it was using before
Jul 16 04:30:33 <Macer> pluss it has mac access control too so even if someone did break the key then at least they still wouldn't be able to use it
Jul 16 04:34:52 <EdLin> Macer: MAC access control can be both sniffed and spoofed, it's worthless from a security standpoint; and if they're already hacking your WEP they probably are hacking it too.
Jul 16 04:35:59 <Macer> lol
Jul 16 04:36:09 <Macer> well.. yeah i suppose so but  i mean seriously
Jul 16 04:36:12 <Macer> what's the point? :)
Jul 16 04:36:21 <EdLin> Macer: on consumer equipment, WPA with a strong password is good.
Jul 16 04:36:35 <Macer> to be l33t and access the wifi phone that you can tether to while passing on the highway?
Jul 16 04:36:39 <Macer> haha
Jul 16 04:36:39 <EdLin> Macer: yeah, an AP with an android isn't much of a target.
Jul 16 04:36:47 <Macer> i'd hope not :)
Jul 16 04:37:03 <Macer> plus anybody who really has the time and knowledge to do something like that would be very far and few
Jul 16 04:37:26 <Macer> it would take a while of sniffing the wep to crack the passphrase.. then finding a proper mac address.. etc
Jul 16 04:37:27 <EdLin> the WEP would be enough to keep the automatic scanning of an ordinary laptop out I guess.
Jul 16 04:37:37 <ShadowJK> plus surely adhoc mode eats so much power that it'll run out of battery after just a few hundred thousand spam mails anyway
Jul 16 04:37:40 <EdLin> Macer: it takes less than a minute to crack WEP
Jul 16 04:37:48 <Macer> ShadowJK: yuyp haha
Jul 16 04:37:59 <Macer> EdLin: wow.. really? that bad huh? :)
Jul 16 04:38:06 <Macer> i thought it would at least buy 30mins to an hour
Jul 16 04:38:07 <EdLin> Macer: it is that bad now
Jul 16 04:38:10 <Macer> haha
Jul 16 04:38:13 <EdLin> Macer: used to be much longer.
Jul 16 04:38:15 <Macer> wow that's horrible
Jul 16 04:38:23 <Macer> i mean i use wpa2 at the house on the router
Jul 16 04:38:31 <Macer> but i didn't think wep was THAT bad
Jul 16 04:38:38 <EdLin> WPA2 can be cracked too, if you have a weak password.
Jul 16 04:39:03 <EdLin> 13 characters that are random is what's recommended under current security threats.
Jul 16 04:39:55 <EdLin> for WPA, they can let something crack it even when there's no signal, WEP at least they need to have a signal, though now that it's less than 60 seconds instead of an hour that's accademic.
Jul 16 04:41:03 <EdLin> OpenWRT has a good random password generator, BTW. :-)
Jul 16 04:44:42 <Macer> lol
Jul 16 04:44:48 <Macer> i think my pw is rather random at the house ;)
Jul 16 04:45:09 <Macer> i always though wpa blocks random requests in such a manner that it is cycled when a brute force is detected
Jul 16 04:45:13 <Macer> although i haven't read up on mit much
Jul 16 04:45:16 <Macer> it
Jul 16 04:46:08 <Macer> either way it goes. the wifi tethering used to not have any encryption at all only mac access
Jul 16 04:46:35 <Macer> so projgress is progress heh
Jul 16 05:00:39 <sarower> hello all, I want to use something like OpenGL or Clutter or any other to implement 3D effect in maemo 5. What kind of support there are. Is there any help?
Jul 16 05:00:47 <sarower> Any body? please!
Jul 16 05:04:56 <Rubon> sarower: I also want to use 3D effect in Maemo 5. It seems Maemo have openGL support for ARMEL, but not for X86. I need to know how can I use openGL or Clutter in X86.
Jul 16 05:06:41 <sarower> Rubon: Mone hosse salara sob vodai... kisui janena
Jul 16 05:31:03 <Macer> sure hope my vaporbook has vpn
Jul 16 05:31:11 <Macer> in its "revolutionary 3d operatoring system"
Jul 16 05:31:18 <Macer> heh.. the batter life would be awesome though if it's true
Jul 16 05:31:22 <Macer> 10+ hours
Jul 16 05:42:29 <RST38h> Macer: What is 3d about the OS?
Jul 16 05:42:41 <RST38h> it has got a revolutionary 3d filesystem? =)
Jul 16 05:50:28 <supermaz> Hi! Is anyone running pidgin 2.5.5 on maemo with ICQ? Because since a few hours I don't get a buddy list
Jul 16 05:50:38 <supermaz> has ICQ changed the protocol again?
Jul 16 06:09:21 <Macer> RST38h: haha
Jul 16 06:09:24 <Macer> 4d
Jul 16 06:10:18 <Macer> RST38h: i don't know.. that is what they call it
Jul 16 06:10:22 <Macer> a revolutionary os :)
Jul 16 06:10:43 <Macer> at least they didn't call it eXtreme (capital X)
Jul 16 06:17:40 <Corsac> which one?
Jul 16 06:27:25 <EdLin> supermaz: who still uses ICQ?!
Jul 16 06:28:40 <tank-man> too many forms of communication
Jul 16 06:29:22 <EdLin> tank-man: yeah, I had to sign on MSN for someone who insisted on using it. Pissed me off.
Jul 16 06:29:55 <tank-man> email, usenet, and irc
Jul 16 06:29:58 <tank-man> keep it simple
Jul 16 06:30:04 <EdLin> you got it
Jul 16 06:30:25 <tank-man> you get your choice of program too
Jul 16 06:30:33 <EdLin> I thought that gopher would beat WWW, it looked so much better on a terminal screen.
Jul 16 06:31:15 <EdLin> who needed pictures anyway? Only porn hounds need GIFs.
Jul 16 06:32:03 <EdLin> now of course, we have HTML browsers as code execution platforms. Some people want to make browsers into frigging OSs.
Jul 16 06:33:15 <EdLin> "Hey, Joe Intel, what would be a good way to sell hardware and antivirus programs for Linux? Jack Google: I got it, let's make an OS that runs interpretive javascript!"
Jul 16 06:35:00 * EdLin goes back to looking at ascii porn.
Jul 16 07:04:47 <Macer> hm
Jul 16 07:05:00 <Macer> EdLin: haha
Jul 16 07:05:34 <Macer> EdLin: that is the path things were taking anyways ;)
Jul 16 07:06:03 <EdLin> Macer: WWW is like emacs. Every application eventually gets a web browser.
Jul 16 07:06:10 <Macer> i sure wish i could remember the book about cloud computing where the individual computers would disappear and would regress into terminals again ;)
Jul 16 07:06:22 <Macer> haha
Jul 16 07:06:31 <Macer> EdLin: i like my zimbra server ;)
Jul 16 07:06:34 <EdLin> sounds like a good one. I could use a VT100
Jul 16 07:06:58 <Macer> EdLin: haha
Jul 16 07:07:03 <Macer> everything will be netbooting soon
Jul 16 07:07:09 <Macer> no need for hard drives
Jul 16 07:07:16 <Macer> google shall store all
Jul 16 07:07:33 <EdLin> google shall know all - everything you do
Jul 16 07:07:36 <EdLin> fixed it for you
Jul 16 07:07:47 <EdLin> I hope you block google analytics.
Jul 16 07:08:03 <Macer> lol
Jul 16 07:08:13 <Macer> yeah... i agree with that situation
Jul 16 07:08:22 <Macer> but you really can't judge their vaporOS yet
Jul 16 07:08:34 <Macer> not until there are pre pre pre betas being "leaked"
Jul 16 07:08:49 <Macer> so you can see what it is really all about.. you never know.. it might actually be good
Jul 16 07:08:56 <EdLin> and people who use google voice are even stupider, a data mining company finding out everyone I call, with half their engineers being old NSA employees?
Jul 16 07:09:08 <Macer> lol
Jul 16 07:09:16 <Macer> EdLin: most people aren't targets of the nsa ;)
Jul 16 07:09:24 <Macer> and don't have that sort of paranoidism
Jul 16 07:09:47 <EdLin> Macer: that's the way of thinking that leads to a police state. "I have nothing to hide. I have no skeletons in *my* closet"
Jul 16 07:09:56 <Macer> EdLin: hahaha
Jul 16 07:10:07 <Macer> if the star wars movies were real life...
Jul 16 07:10:11 <Macer> the dark side would have won
Jul 16 07:10:12 <EdLin> I just finished talking to someone about that in another channel
Jul 16 07:10:16 <Macer> end of story
Jul 16 07:10:17 <Macer> :)
Jul 16 07:10:36 <EdLin> "Evil always wins, because good is dumb"
Jul 16 07:10:51 <EdLin> - Spaceballs
Jul 16 07:10:52 <Macer> no
Jul 16 07:10:56 <Macer> evil always wins because good is good ;)
Jul 16 07:11:01 <Macer> and is unwilling to do evil
Jul 16 07:11:14 <Macer> until it is required
Jul 16 07:11:19 <Macer> which is usually too late
Jul 16 07:11:29 <Macer> bbl
Jul 16 07:11:40 <EdLin> most people who are good don't say "I am not evil" the MMPI calls the biggest liars the people who say "I don't lie"
Jul 16 07:11:50 <EdLin> google says I
Jul 16 07:11:54 <EdLin> "'m not evil
Jul 16 07:11:58 <EdLin> oops
Jul 16 07:12:04 <EdLin> that's why I don't trust them
Jul 16 07:12:39 <ikelos> Luke-Jr: Morning!  You caught me just as I was going in the middle of the night...  5;)
Jul 16 07:12:59 <rmt> Comment from the Tear developer: "Looks like the AppCache option was incorrectly listed as default yes, so the latest maemo libwebkit has full AppCache support (at least the Calendar demo works:)). I didn't upload this libwebkit build yet, because its API changed (due to previous Titanium patches) and I need to post a newer Tear as well. Just to let you know."
Jul 16 07:13:10 <rmt> AppCache support coming soon to a tablet near you! :)
Jul 16 07:21:44 <RST38h> Ho ho ho
Jul 16 07:40:56 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jul 16 07:42:14 <Jaffa> X-Fade: ping
Jul 16 07:55:26 <Jaffa> If anyone sees X-Fade, poke him about the bugs.maemo.org SSL cert expiring at 16/07/2009 00:59, so now Firefox 3 won't render Bugzilla without a security exception being added (which is pretty bad)
Jul 16 07:55:48 <danielwilms> Jaffa...he is working on that
Jul 16 07:56:28 <danielwilms> we had a small vacations-responsibility issue here, so we weren't completely in time :)
Jul 16 07:56:38 <danielwilms> but will be solved soon
Jul 16 07:57:11 <danielwilms> certs are there, signed and on the way to be in place ;)
Jul 16 08:04:50 <andre__> danielwilms, ah, good to know. already sent tero an email about it earlier this morning :)
Jul 16 08:07:00 <danielwilms> andre__: ok...he is on vacations the next two weeks ;) so put me on cc next time ;)
Jul 16 08:07:23 <danielwilms> one of us is always here ;)
Jul 16 08:07:35 <andre__> ah. also good to know :)
Jul 16 08:08:33 <danielwilms> andre__, Jaffa: cert is in place ;)
Jul 16 08:09:43 <Jaffa> danielwilms: thanks
Jul 16 08:10:13 <andre__> cool
Jul 16 08:32:53 <xci> hey guys, is it possible to make an install file so that it does not require repo, but instead installs from a local .deb-file for instance?
Jul 16 08:33:33 <johnx> in that case just use the .deb directly
Jul 16 08:34:04 <xci> yeah I know but if I just want to make the install file too :/
Jul 16 08:35:12 <Macer> hi
Jul 16 08:35:21 <Macer> that new nokia tablet come out yet?
Jul 16 08:35:25 * Macer grins
Jul 16 08:36:21 <Jaffa> johnx: although not in fremantle :-/
Jul 16 08:36:38 <johnx> really?
Jul 16 08:36:40 <johnx> huh
Jul 16 08:36:47 <Jaffa> Macer: Increasingly frequent and interesting leaks and slip-ups
Jul 16 08:36:48 <johnx> well, I guess a port of gdebi is in order
Jul 16 08:36:55 <Jaffa> johnx: App Mgr's had "install from file" removed.
Jul 16 08:38:08 <qwerty12_N810> "The Nokia Way" strikes again. If it doesn't work properly, remove it.
Jul 16 08:38:16 <johnx> like I said: gdebi :)
Jul 16 08:38:39 <johnx> no menu, and one big button, so no need to really hildonify it
Jul 16 08:39:03 <qwerty12_N810> johnx: I've ran it in Diablo, speed kinda sucked :\
Jul 16 08:39:34 <johnx> interesting
Jul 16 08:39:44 <johnx> wonder if it's a RAM thing or just a lot of I/O
Jul 16 08:40:18 <qwerty12_N810> It's in Python :)
Jul 16 08:40:46 <johnx> say no more :)
Jul 16 08:44:29 <rkirti> ~curse broken gdk loaders
Jul 16 08:44:30 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, broken gdk loaders !
Jul 16 08:45:05 <RST38h> heya johnx, qwerty
Jul 16 08:45:13 <johnx> mornin' RST38h
Jul 16 08:45:16 <qwerty12_N810> hey RST38h
Jul 16 08:45:39 <RST38h> Jaffa: Wait, does it mean Fremantle won't let me install .debs from App Manager?
Jul 16 08:47:01 <andre__> RST38h, you will need to use dpkg for installation from a local file
Jul 16 08:47:24 <johnx> or wait til some dude on the internet packages up gdebi for you
Jul 16 08:47:54 <RST38h> andre: Ah shit.
Jul 16 08:48:16 <RST38h> andre: Is Nokia removing xterm as well, just in case?
Jul 16 08:48:28 <andre__> nope.
Jul 16 08:49:07 <johnx> I mean, it kinda makes sense
Jul 16 08:49:33 <johnx> it would be nice if everyone would just man-up and get things in extras or at least *some* repo
Jul 16 08:49:43 <RST38h> johnx: Did I tell you a story about a Soviet supermarket?
Jul 16 08:50:08 <johnx> they removed support for directly installing .debs?
Jul 16 08:50:33 <RST38h> johnx: No, but it is kinda similar
Jul 16 08:51:18 <johnx> sooo, no rpms? forced people to use yum? or zypper? I can see the ideological differences between the west and the east much more clearly now
Jul 16 08:51:35 <RST38h> johnx: Anyway, to buy something (let us say, a tomato), you had to go to a counter with tomatoes and ask the girl there for a tomato. She would give you a piece of paper.
Jul 16 08:51:57 <RST38h> johnx: With that piece of paper you had to go to the cash register and pay. The cash register girl would give you another piece of paper.
Jul 16 08:52:13 <qwerty12_N810> There's also a ban on "=" deps due to Application Manager not actually being able to tell what the difference is between a package made by Nokia, and a 3rd-party package
Jul 16 08:52:27 <RST38h> johnx: With that second piece of paper you had to go back to the peoduce counter and exchange it for a tomato, but only after the first girl made a record in a huge book
Jul 16 08:52:40 <RST38h> s/peoduce/produce
Jul 16 08:52:41 <johnx> RST38h, nah, you're just describing how Fry's works :P
Jul 16 08:52:54 <qwerty12_N810> Ah well, Fremantle is dead. Long live Harmattan.
Jul 16 08:52:56 <RST38h> johnx: Now, mind you, EVERY step of this procedure makes perfect sense
Jul 16 08:53:17 <johnx> yeah, so they copied it at every electronics store in the US
Jul 16 08:53:40 <RST38h> johnx: It prevents you from stealing produce. It prevents the produce girl from stealing your money. Etc etc
Jul 16 08:54:11 <RST38h> johnx: But when you look at all these steps together, it is just one fucking kafkian mess
Jul 16 08:54:44 <andre__> qwerty12_N810, the "=" deps ban should get fixed within the next three weeks. see the bug report.
Jul 16 08:55:00 <RST38h> johnx: This is what has happened with Symbian "capabilities" and may well be happening with Maemo packages.
Jul 16 08:55:02 <johnx> right, and it will only be tolerated if a) all the stores do it or b) the store loses less customers from enforcing this bizarre procedure than it does from "shrinkage" or "loss"
Jul 16 08:55:26 <RST38h> johnx: Neither was a problem to maintain in .SWU
Jul 16 08:55:28 <RST38h> .SU
Jul 16 08:55:30 <Stskeeps> well
Jul 16 08:55:33 <Stskeeps> keep in mind with maemo
Jul 16 08:55:39 <Stskeeps> the best thing about it, is that you can get rid of it
Jul 16 08:55:40 <Stskeeps> :P
Jul 16 08:55:42 <johnx> RST38h, and I don't care because I don't think I'll ever *own* a device that runs the Nokia version of Fremantle
Jul 16 08:55:57 <johnx> morning Stskeeps :)
Jul 16 08:56:09 <qwerty12_N810> andre__: thanks
Jul 16 08:56:18 <RST38h> johnx: That bad vibes already?
Jul 16 08:56:32 <RST38h> Sts, new day, new Chinese NIT knockoff ;)
Jul 16 08:56:36 <Stskeeps> RST38h: url?
Jul 16 08:56:55 <RST38h> Sts: Ah, t.m.o, Competitors section, the top
Jul 16 08:57:18 <Stskeeps> i'm not that good at following news atm, i need to get the last screw out of my n810 so i can replace the charger plug
Jul 16 08:57:49 <johnx> RST38h, I never intended to. I doubt I'll be able to afford it and I already have a pandora on order
Jul 16 08:57:49 <Stskeeps> RST38h: S101 OS
Jul 16 08:58:06 <RST38h> Sts: What is it?
Jul 16 08:58:19 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i think it's Chinook based but i'm not sure
Jul 16 08:58:30 <Stskeeps> admittedly i wouldn't mind their development department feeding into Mer
Jul 16 08:58:38 <RST38h> Interesting...Didn't they need Nokia's binary blobs?
Jul 16 08:58:49 <Stskeeps> no, you can get a hildon desktop working without
Jul 16 08:58:53 <Stskeeps> if you have sufficient resources to do it
Jul 16 08:59:08 <RST38h> What about power saving?
Jul 16 08:59:12 <neatojones> Hey guys, I seem to have botched up my touchscreen.  I messed with ts_calibration and now even after flash, I can't use the screen
Jul 16 08:59:17 <neatojones> does that even make sense?
Jul 16 08:59:20 <Stskeeps> neatojones: copy in pointercal
Jul 16 08:59:23 <Stskeeps> in /etc
Jul 16 08:59:30 <Stskeeps> RST38h: not that difficult to replicate
Jul 16 08:59:37 <johnx> RST38h, it exists in the kernel and in properly designed software that doesn't run when it doesn't need to
Jul 16 08:59:48 <johnx> plus a 2600mAh battery goes a long way :)
Jul 16 08:59:56 <RST38h> yeah but they have got an XScale
Jul 16 09:00:13 <RST38h> it is a power hog compared to OMAP
Jul 16 09:00:22 <Stskeeps> RST38h: their power saving is probably abysmal but they did a good job on UI
Jul 16 09:00:28 <johnx> and has fully twice the battery capacity
Jul 16 09:00:55 <neatojones> I can't get to anything in Maemo.  I tried flashing with Mer since it automatically has ssh up and running.
Jul 16 09:01:07 <neatojones> 0.14 isn't loading the desktop screen.
Jul 16 09:01:13 <Stskeeps> neatojones: i would just enable USB networking mode :P
Jul 16 09:01:38 <neatojones> ah.
Jul 16 09:01:47 <neatojones> Which button is that again on boot?
Jul 16 09:02:37 <Stskeeps> home/switch?
Jul 16 09:02:44 <neatojones> nm. ..I got to the screen
Jul 16 09:02:58 <neatojones> I guess, I want to usb with shell?
Jul 16 09:03:37 <Stskeeps> yeah
Jul 16 09:04:12 <neatojones> I'm a bit out of my league on fixing this.
Jul 16 09:04:30 <Stskeeps> 0.15?
Jul 16 09:04:52 <neatojones> using 0.14 since it had a flashable kernel there
Jul 16 09:05:13 <Stskeeps> ah
Jul 16 09:05:17 <neatojones> I originally had 0.15, but then tried a reflash of the tablet.
Jul 16 09:05:30 <neatojones> since i couldn't use the screen, I went ahead and just flashed Mer 0.14
Jul 16 09:05:37 <Stskeeps> ah
Jul 16 09:06:14 <neatojones> So, now I'm into the main screen of Mer 0.14, but can't select a connection to get the ssh up and going.
Jul 16 09:06:21 <neatojones> gonna have to restart and telnet.
Jul 16 09:06:30 <neatojones> I guess, but I've never messed with that much.
Jul 16 09:06:47 <neatojones> unless there is some combo of buttons to catch the menu
Jul 16 09:07:07 <Stskeeps> if you can simply remove the "/etc/pointercal" file it should reinstate it
Jul 16 09:07:44 <neatojones> hmm.
Jul 16 09:08:07 <neatojones> Can I get Mer to drop to the terminal somehow?
Jul 16 09:08:15 <neatojones> or bash, I mean
Jul 16 09:08:57 <Stskeeps> console mode i guess, but bash is accessible through USB, both ssh and telnet
Jul 16 09:09:08 <Stskeeps> the Fn key doesnt' work well in terminal
Jul 16 09:11:13 <qwerty12_N810> actually, has anyone tried those linux-omap patches wrt Fn in 2.6.21? I've modified bootmenu to give me a terminal upon hitting 't' but it kinda fails when I can't press '/'...
Jul 16 09:11:27 <Stskeeps> ask luke i guess
Jul 16 09:12:00 <neatojones> here we go.
Jul 16 09:12:11 <qwerty12_N810> Might try it myself and hope it doesn't fuck anything up in Maemo
Jul 16 09:12:33 <johnx> qwerty12_N810, just cd .. ; cd bin
Jul 16 09:12:51 <johnx> had a similar keymap problem on a different system a while ago
Jul 16 09:13:00 <qwerty12_N810> How do I enter "./"  :)
Jul 16 09:13:11 <johnx> .
Jul 16 09:13:15 <neatojones> well, I basically was playing around with Mer and followed the guide that was supposed to be for calibrating the smartq5 screen
Jul 16 09:13:51 <johnx> or to exec something in /home/qwerty: cd .. ; cd .. ; home/qwerty/something
Jul 16 09:14:29 <qwerty12_N810> I can't use the / key
Jul 16 09:15:00 <Stskeeps> tab? ;p
Jul 16 09:15:03 <johnx> right, you'll need to tab
Jul 16 09:15:42 <qwerty12_N810> The N810 keyboard doesn't have it by default, afaik..
Jul 16 09:15:54 <Stskeeps> ah :p
Jul 16 09:15:57 <johnx> ctrl-i
Jul 16 09:16:00 <johnx> I think
Jul 16 09:16:35 <qwerty12_N810> Yep, that does the trick, thanks
Jul 16 09:16:48 <johnx> it's not fun, but it works in a pinch
Jul 16 09:17:41 <johnx> mmm...N800 -> bt -> phone -> GRPS/EDGE -> inet
Jul 16 09:58:46 <qwerty12> I've got working Fn in console but not in Maemo :)
Jul 16 09:59:00 <Stskeeps> heh
Jul 16 10:56:09 <xci> I just changed my target to arm and tried to install nokia-binaries but it complained about "SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set"
Jul 16 10:56:50 <timelyx> johnx: so... dpkg is still available
Jul 16 10:57:00 <timelyx> but the ui is limited to things which aren't likely to break your system
Jul 16 10:57:11 <Stskeeps> well as long as they support .install's
Jul 16 10:59:58 <xci> does anyone know how to fix that?
Jul 16 11:00:22 <timelyx> xci: try a different sbox installation instruction manual? :)
Jul 16 11:01:28 * timelyx stops heckling
Jul 16 11:02:53 <woglinde> ~seen javispedro
Jul 16 11:02:56 <infobot> javispedro <n=javier@80.32.146.69> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16h 5m 38s ago, saying: '(yes I know about ccache)'.
Jul 16 11:42:47 <amr> i wonder if i can entertain myself with my tablet on a train to london
Jul 16 11:42:57 <amr> i think ill have wifi so it wont be too hard \o
Jul 16 11:46:12 <mgedmin> amr: get a good book and fbreader
Jul 16 11:46:29 <amr> sounds like a good idea
Jul 16 11:46:50 <amr> i also have ines and mario, should that not work :p
Jul 16 11:47:24 * qwerty12_N810 recommends a good capacity SD card, a bittorrent client on the desktop and mplayer on the tablet
Jul 16 11:50:06 <lcuk2> amr, take liqbase and think and write :)
Jul 16 11:51:20 <wazd> jeez I'm so sick of "Nokia is doomed" articles on popular blogs
Jul 16 11:51:50 <Stskeeps> i think nokia is far from doomed, in some areas they're lightyears ahead :p
Jul 16 11:52:37 <wazd> those "journalists" can't see a little farer than their long nose
Jul 16 11:53:31 <wazd> If you can't write sane stuff - go to McD!
Jul 16 11:54:13 <Macer> haha
Jul 16 11:54:25 <Macer> hardware wise they always have been leading the pack
Jul 16 11:55:23 <Macer> nokia is rather awesome. plus they make higher quality products it seems
Jul 16 11:55:35 <Macer> an htc dream is rather flimsy imho
Jul 16 11:56:13 <Macer> don't get me wrong. i love the phone .. :) but i'd have never gotten it if my n95 worked with tmob 3G and i REFUSED to use att any longer
Jul 16 11:56:42 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N810: sorry, no qwerty12 packages in this one :P
Jul 16 11:57:19 <qwerty12_N810> hehe
Jul 16 11:58:14 <Stskeeps> i do want to get the developers of that OS on board though
Jul 16 12:12:27 <waswas> Does anyone know how i can see, when HPaned (gtkmm) is resized?
Jul 16 12:12:51 <waswas> I've been trying few things but, I just failed every time :P
Jul 16 12:17:56 <Macer> haha
Jul 16 12:18:08 <Macer> qwerty12_N810: is dropping the ball
Jul 16 12:19:02 <amr> has anyone got wmp11 library sharing working?
Jul 16 12:19:07 <amr> so that your tablet can access it
Jul 16 12:19:16 <amr> it shows up, but it doesnt seem to be able to find anything
Jul 16 12:19:20 <amr> (no clips)
Jul 16 12:19:43 <amr> ah hang on, it just took ages to think about it
Jul 16 12:20:26 <amr> ah no, its still empty :|
Jul 16 12:21:09 <wazd> new Moby album is awesome :)
Jul 16 12:21:23 <wazd> I definitely should buy it :)
Jul 16 12:24:39 <napsy> Hello. Is it possible to store the maemo mapper map files on the sd card instead on the internal memory?
Jul 16 12:25:00 <Stskeeps> yes, there's a setting for it in map repositories?
Jul 16 12:25:01 <Stskeeps> the cache
Jul 16 12:25:22 <napsy> hm ok so if I change the cache patch to my sd it should work?
Jul 16 12:25:28 <Stskeeps> yeah
Jul 16 12:25:30 <napsy> path*
Jul 16 12:25:32 <napsy> ok tnx
Jul 16 12:33:29 * RST38h wonders what evil deed he should commit today
Jul 16 12:37:03 <lcuk2> RST38h, post scp wikidot articles to wikipedia as fact ;)
Jul 16 12:37:22 <waswas> Hmm
Jul 16 12:37:30 <RST38h> lcuk: Probably won't stand a chance, too many wikipedians without a sense of humor =)
Jul 16 12:37:35 <waswas> Why Maemo.org looks kinda broken :P
Jul 16 12:38:07 <lcuk2> then post wikipedia articles inside scp as fact ;)
Jul 16 12:38:09 <RST38h> lcuk: Now, I am actually thinking of posting some of this stuff to FreeRepublic...
Jul 16 12:38:57 <RST38h> lcuk: Or some other forum for mildly salted nut cases...
Jul 16 12:39:01 <lcuk2> i was reading some more creepypasta stuff the other night and realised it was an scp article
Jul 16 12:39:05 <lcuk2> you have spoilt me!
Jul 16 12:39:38 <Jaffa> waswas: which bit of maemo.org?
Jul 16 12:39:44 <RST38h> lcuk: yes, SCP has this effect on people...
Jul 16 12:40:30 <lcuk2> is it only scp where you get your freaky stuff from, or are there other sources
Jul 16 12:56:32 <RST38h> lcuk: There are other sources, of course :)
Jul 16 12:59:29 <Stskeeps> RST38h: mm, interesting device but the company should work with mer instead :P
Jul 16 13:00:37 <Stskeeps> and get away from the very grey area they're in
Jul 16 13:02:33 <xnt14> hmm
Jul 16 13:02:40 <xnt14> ~seen b-man16
Jul 16 13:02:43 <infobot> b-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9h 55m 48s ago, saying: 'i'm shure you can find one for under $200 ;)'.
Jul 16 13:02:51 <xnt14> xD
Jul 16 13:02:58 * xnt14 looks at the logs :P
Jul 16 13:06:38 <RST38h> Sts: Your best bet would be to talk your SmartQ friends into persuading these guys
Jul 16 13:06:53 <RST38h> Sts: They are both Chinese so there won't be communication problems
Jul 16 13:07:00 <ShadowJK> uh.
Jul 16 13:07:02 <Stskeeps> RST38h: ah, we already have a contact who has a contact
Jul 16 13:07:02 <Stskeeps> :P
Jul 16 13:07:11 <RST38h> Sts: Heh =)
Jul 16 13:07:14 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i have s101 rootfs
Jul 16 13:07:19 <ShadowJK> they'll listen to competitors? sounds...logical
Jul 16 13:07:49 <RST38h> ShadowJK: They are not as dumb as Americans or Europeans on IP
Jul 16 13:07:51 <Stskeeps> ShadowJK: strangely enough people work together on some areas
Jul 16 13:08:20 <RST38h> ShadowJK: They clearly understand that their IP will be stolen and reused anyway, so they often cooperate on the stuff that isn't worth keeping private
Jul 16 13:08:53 <Stskeeps> once again proving that open source is communism
Jul 16 13:08:53 <Stskeeps> :p
Jul 16 13:09:06 <ShadowJK> that's not what I meant
Jul 16 13:09:39 * RST38h hands Sts a hammer and a sickle
Jul 16 13:09:46 * ShadowJK wasnt referring to opensource or closedsource or stolenware at alll
Jul 16 13:11:02 <RST38h> Then what have you been referring to?
Jul 16 13:13:51 <RST38h> "Swedish cops are on the look-out for a quintet of tattooed girls who dragged a 50-year-old man off his bicycle, pulled down his trousers and smalls and "sexually molested" the poor bloke."
Jul 16 13:13:59 <RST38h> lcuk: Speaking of freakish stuff...
Jul 16 13:14:24 <lcuk2> damn
Jul 16 13:14:30 <lcuk2> brb, cycling around sweden
Jul 16 13:15:22 <RST38h> lcuk: Are you past 50 though?
Jul 16 13:16:25 <lcuk2> for the chance of a pentorgy with a group of goths i think i might flash my OAP bus pass
Jul 16 13:18:20 <RST38h> lcuk: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2964383/Goths-arrested-on-suspicion-of-murdering-and-eating-teenagers-in-Satanic-ritual.html
Jul 16 13:19:09 <RST38h> lcuk: (they also crucified a hamster, upside down, at the spot of the ritual, the photos were cute)
Jul 16 13:19:54 <Macer> RST38h: hahaha!!!
Jul 16 13:20:22 <Macer> nothing beats eating people during "satanic" rituals
Jul 16 13:20:23 <Macer> :)
Jul 16 13:21:16 <Macer> RST38h: that site doesn't seem to be working
Jul 16 13:35:34 <RST38h> Macer: Actually, I feel sorry for the hamster
Jul 16 13:35:48 <Stskeeps> wow, fremantle went for gtk2.14
Jul 16 13:36:02 <RST38h> Sts: there is one more interesting piece of news
Jul 16 13:36:26 <Stskeeps> mm?
Jul 16 13:36:34 <RST38h> Sts: In the SDK Beta2 thread, somebody from Nokia mentioned that all the ugly framed rectangles will be replaced by transparencies in the final version
Jul 16 13:36:48 <Stskeeps> sounds evil
Jul 16 13:37:13 <RST38h> Sts: Should actually look much much better this way
Jul 16 13:37:26 <RST38h> Sts: More or less like new styled context menus in S60e5
Jul 16 13:37:46 <Macer> you knwo. after a few days of using it.. google chrome actually grew on me
Jul 16 13:37:51 <Macer> heh
Jul 16 13:37:59 <Macer> i would rather use it than ff
Jul 16 13:38:07 <RST38h> Macer: No Adblocker => can't use it
Jul 16 13:40:17 <Macer> adblocker? :)
Jul 16 13:40:18 <Macer> haha
Jul 16 13:40:23 <Macer> oh you mean for the adlets?
Jul 16 13:41:01 <RST38h> For the banners and other ad crap
Jul 16 13:42:18 <Macer> http://www.ghacks.net/2009/01/05/google-chrome-adblocker/
Jul 16 13:42:25 <Macer> what makes that article so amazing
Jul 16 13:42:37 <Macer> is that they are talking about how much google sucks for not having it.. but have 10,000 ads on the side
Jul 16 13:42:40 <Macer> hahaha
Jul 16 13:43:19 <RST38h> Ads? What ads? My FF does not show any.
Jul 16 13:44:22 <Macer> well... :)
Jul 16 13:44:24 <Macer> in chrome
Jul 16 13:44:24 <Macer> heh
Jul 16 13:44:35 <Macer> it's ok. because with chrome's optimized rendering engine
Jul 16 13:44:40 <Macer> they load just as fast heh
Jul 16 13:44:53 <Macer> as they would from you blocking it with ff ;)
Jul 16 13:45:41 <Macer> i like the interface though
Jul 16 13:45:56 <Macer> it's good to have in xp i suppose.. at the ver least better for me than ff and ie and safari
Jul 16 13:46:12 <lcuk2> RST38h, which beta2 thread (i barely touch tmo at the mo)
Jul 16 13:47:58 <RST38h> Macer: I do not hate them for speed, I just dislike stuff being forcibly shoved up my ass
Jul 16 13:48:09 <RST38h> Macer: Even if it is done through my eyeballs
Jul 16 13:49:23 <RST38h> lcuk: #17 here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30274&page=2
Jul 16 13:51:00 <fiferboy> lbt: Ping?
Jul 16 13:53:22 <lbt> hi fiferboy
Jul 16 13:53:30 <fiferboy> lbt: Hi
Jul 16 13:54:00 <fiferboy> I was going to ask how to recover from changes I accidentally pushed to my qt-diablo branch in my clone, but then I figured it out and rebased it
Jul 16 13:54:15 <lbt> yep
Jul 16 13:54:27 <lbt> rebase or just reset
Jul 16 13:54:49 <fiferboy> Reset only reverses the staging changes, right?
Jul 16 13:55:12 <lbt> no
Jul 16 13:55:25 <lbt> reset changes HEAD which is a ptr
Jul 16 13:55:42 <lbt> reset --hard also changes dir IIRC
Jul 16 13:56:06 <fiferboy> Ah, so if I 'git reset HEAD~3' I go back three changes?
Jul 16 13:56:27 <lbt> yes
Jul 16 13:56:39 <lbt> and status would show the files as modified
Jul 16 13:57:09 <fiferboy> Good to know, I have been using rebase and deleting the commit lines that I want to go back
Jul 16 13:57:23 <fiferboy> reset would be easier for simple changes, but rebase is amazingly flexible
Jul 16 13:57:39 <lbt> it's good to review how you use it as you learn
Jul 16 13:58:00 <lbt> there are options and tools that are overwhelming when starting out
Jul 16 13:58:07 <fiferboy> Definitely, I'm sure there are still lots of things I am missing
Jul 16 13:58:09 <lbt> but make more sense if you use it more
Jul 16 13:58:14 <lbt> oh, me too
Jul 16 14:04:42 <fiferboy> lbt: I fixed the infinite oscillations bug (at least, the fix works for the case I could find)
Jul 16 14:05:06 <lbt> it was still there then?
Jul 16 14:05:30 <lbt> I'm hacking on OBS to make the builds work quicker
Jul 16 14:05:41 <fiferboy> Yes, in the overshoot stabilise code
Jul 16 14:05:58 <fiferboy> lbt: How are you doing that?
Jul 16 14:06:19 <lbt> http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Cross_Build
Jul 16 14:08:11 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: I thought you would have noticed the gtk version jump earlier :)
Jul 16 14:27:14 <fiferboy> lbt: For Antonio's last bug (where the scrollarea doesn't go into kinetic mode after a short, fast flick)
Jul 16 14:27:26 <fiferboy> It looks to me as if it has something to do with focus change
Jul 16 14:27:31 <lbt> I used to track multiple points to velocity
Jul 16 14:27:45 <lbt> I wonder if that's needed now
Jul 16 14:27:53 <fiferboy> ie. It misses kinetic if the widget just gets focus, other wise it gets it every time
Jul 16 14:28:17 <lbt> ok
Jul 16 14:29:01 <fiferboy> After the widget gets focus it records the initial velocity as 0 (unless you scroll around manually for a while)
Jul 16 14:29:27 <lcuk2> fiferboy, should a kinetic scroll action actually take focus?
Jul 16 14:29:39 <lbt> good point
Jul 16 14:29:45 <lcuk2> look in windows - put cursor in a textbox on a form, then using mouse scroll wheel, move the list
Jul 16 14:29:52 <lcuk2> the textbox retains focus
Jul 16 14:30:08 <fiferboy> lcuk2: That is a good observation
Jul 16 14:30:13 <lcuk2> its only when you click the list properly that focus shifts
Jul 16 14:30:24 <lbt> AFAI Recall it shouldn't need or take focus
Jul 16 14:30:34 <fiferboy> Although I don't like the way Windows handles it either, having to be the focused window
Jul 16 14:31:03 <lbt> since if the scrollmonitor steals the mouse events it takes them all.. completely
Jul 16 14:31:27 <fiferboy> lbt: Does it have to do that, since it may be a click through or context event?
Jul 16 14:31:40 <lbt> it handles that
Jul 16 14:31:50 <lbt> a click event has no movement and is replayed
Jul 16 14:32:00 <lbt> click+move = scroll
Jul 16 14:32:04 <fiferboy> Yes it does, is that the reason it takes focus?
Jul 16 14:32:05 <lcuk2> *little movement
Jul 16 14:32:23 <lbt> honestly I don't recall
Jul 16 14:32:33 <lbt> my code doesn't touch focus
Jul 16 14:32:37 <lbt> I know that
Jul 16 14:32:40 <lbt> but HIM...
Jul 16 14:32:54 <lbt> it steals events and sees events that I block
Jul 16 14:33:03 <lbt> which it shouldn't do
Jul 16 14:33:04 <fiferboy> I thought the mouse event got absorbed if scrolling happened, which means the widget shouldn't get it for focus
Jul 16 14:33:14 <lbt> correct
Jul 16 14:33:25 <lbt> but if you look at textedit
Jul 16 14:33:36 <lbt> the click doesn't get to the qt widget
Jul 16 14:33:42 <lbt> but HIM pops up a keyb
Jul 16 14:33:44 <lbt> hmm
Jul 16 14:33:49 <lbt> bad HIM
Jul 16 14:34:00 <fiferboy> I'll try disabling the HIM code and see if finger scroll works properly
Jul 16 14:34:08 <lbt> I wonder if HIM does focus too
Jul 16 14:34:34 <lbt> you mean #undef USE_HIM
Jul 16 14:34:37 <fiferboy> lbt: As far as I know, HIM only comes into play when there is a focus switch, but I haven't dug too deeply
Jul 16 14:34:41 <lbt> oh, wait... you can't do that ;)
Jul 16 14:34:50 <fiferboy> lbt: :)
Jul 16 14:35:11 <lbt> actually gnuton will accept that as a patch
Jul 16 14:35:19 <fiferboy> There are a couple places in qinputcontext that activate HIM
Jul 16 14:35:26 <lbt> so if you want to make changes to the him-branch
Jul 16 14:35:28 <lcuk2> can you still scroll in a disabled/locked list?
Jul 16 14:35:31 <lbt> and merge them...
Jul 16 14:36:04 <lbt> lcuk2: I think you're going to have to write a Qt test app to find out... and then log a bug
Jul 16 14:36:06 <fiferboy> lcuk2: I know you used to be able to, but I'm not sure about now
Jul 16 14:36:09 <lbt> <grin>
Jul 16 14:36:26 * lcuk2 heaves
Jul 16 14:36:46 <fiferboy> lcuk2: If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure you can write it on the device...
Jul 16 14:36:46 <jaska> firing the retro-rocket+
Jul 16 14:37:13 <lcuk2> its not a problem either way, im used to not being able to - but if the list expects to get focus first it makes sense for the list to be unscrollable if it cannot get focus cos its disabled
Jul 16 14:37:20 <lcuk2> fiferboy, too slow
Jul 16 14:37:41 <fiferboy> lcuk2: Nah, you don't have to compile qt on the device ;)
Jul 16 14:37:45 <lbt> focus shouldn't be relevant
Jul 16 14:37:59 <lcuk2> get me a much much faster finger touch handheld touchscreen device and ill build liqbase in qt
Jul 16 14:38:26 <lcuk2> fiferboy, compile + copy + execute is SLOWER using scratchbox than native..
Jul 16 14:38:43 <lcuk2> and i get best thing of all, instant run on real hardware, and instant stopping with ctrlc
Jul 16 14:38:47 <fiferboy> lcuk2: Even slower with qemu
Jul 16 14:38:50 <lcuk2> and lots of debug info in my console
Jul 16 14:39:26 <coldboot> I'm back.
Jul 16 14:39:43 <fiferboy> coldboot: Did you figure out why your program wasn't working with the patched Qt?
Jul 16 14:39:48 <lcuk2> coldboot, why did you flicker then when you reappeared?
Jul 16 14:39:48 <lbt> \o/
Jul 16 14:39:55 <lbt> ROFL
Jul 16 14:40:02 <coldboot> haha
Jul 16 14:40:15 <fiferboy> Hey, at least he is able to type...
Jul 16 14:40:35 * lcuk2 has a new keyboard in liqbase !! i can type too now
Jul 16 14:40:38 <lcuk2> even on a smartq
Jul 16 14:40:42 <woglinde> lcuk haha
Jul 16 14:41:28 <coldboot> fiferboy: I don't know what the reason is, but I'd guess that making one widget native, while the rest aren't, causes events to be directed to the wrong places.
Jul 16 14:42:02 <lcuk2> woglinde, i loath having to put a soft kb into liqbase - i only ever need it for the username and password to liqbase.net
Jul 16 14:42:08 <coldboot> This laut.fm stuff is pretty cool.
Jul 16 14:42:27 <fiferboy> We didn't change anything for inputable widgets, just ones that don't accept keyboard input
Jul 16 14:43:09 <coldboot> Yes, but it's somehow affecting the other widgets in the same window.
Jul 16 14:43:12 <lbt> coldboot: my stupid flashplayer keeps going jittery grrr
Jul 16 14:43:21 <coldboot> lbt: Yeah, mine too, every now and then.
Jul 16 14:43:40 <fiferboy> coldboot: But not in my program or in shopper...
Jul 16 14:44:54 <coldboot> fiferboy: Also, in my program it just affects the popup widget. The click events actually go through the popup window, to the view underneath, and click its buttons.
Jul 16 14:45:04 <coldboot> Does anyone know of a good video screen capture program for Linux?
Jul 16 14:45:19 <fiferboy> coldboot: That is really strange...
Jul 16 14:45:21 <woglinde> xvid
Jul 16 14:45:30 <lcuk2> coldboot, vnc2swf
Jul 16 14:45:38 <woglinde> and kmydesktop or so
Jul 16 14:46:17 <woglinde> or ask in #ffmpeg
Jul 16 15:02:38 <coldboot> vnc2swf just fails and says it can't connect on startup, I take it you have to setup a vnc server?
Jul 16 15:03:20 <ShadowJK> um, yes...
Jul 16 15:13:57 <andre__> Stskeeps, I assume "Mer" is more than just a kernel but also includes some applications, right? :-D
Jul 16 15:15:31 <talig> guys, did anyone ever successfully flash an omap kernel?
Jul 16 15:20:30 <VDVsx> another chinese MID running maemo: http://www.pocketables.net/2009/07/optima-unveils-op5e-mid-with-maemo.html :)
Jul 16 15:20:59 <coldboot> Okay recordmydesktop is pretty good.
Jul 16 15:23:43 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: saw it, there's a thread on it
Jul 16 15:27:43 <Stskeeps> RST38h: what's a MPU? different from MMU? :P
Jul 16 15:38:55 <GAN800> The Chinese are hilarious.
Jul 16 15:42:23 <ShadowJK> what now? :)
Jul 16 15:45:01 <timelyx> GAN800: i like VDVsx's last picture
Jul 16 15:45:26 <timelyx> although, stealing firefox+msnmessenger+wmp feels a bit excessive
Jul 16 15:48:17 <Luke-Jr> ikelos: I caught you how exactly?
Jul 16 15:48:52 <coldboot> All screen capturing options to Linux seem to be broken for me.
Jul 16 15:49:16 * ShadowJK used ffmpeg for it
Jul 16 15:49:49 <Corsac> screenshots or video?
Jul 16 15:50:05 <coldboot> Corsac: Video, capturing screenshots is easy and always works.
Jul 16 15:50:15 <Corsac> recordmydesktop is known to work here
Jul 16 15:50:34 <coldboot> It only captures the first frame for me.
Jul 16 15:53:37 <mgedmin> osm2go rules
Jul 16 15:56:13 <VDVsx> timelyx, they don't have money enough money for a designer :P
Jul 16 15:57:43 <timelyx> VDVsx: more likely they couldn't find one if they tried :)
Jul 16 15:58:05 <timelyx> (we manage to find people who shouldn't be allowed to claim that title)
Jul 16 16:03:26 <lcuk2> mgedmin, how would i access continuous logs of a single person from your server
Jul 16 16:03:38 <RST38h> reMoo
Jul 16 16:03:52 <mgedmin> lcuk2: use the advanced AI-controlled shell server, to viz, paste me the grep command you want me to run ;)
Jul 16 16:03:59 <lcuk2> supposing i wanted to look at all my lines with all my normal aliases, could i ask your server "/listquotes.php?username='lcuk,lcuk2,lcuk3"
Jul 16 16:04:14 <VDVsx> timelyx, well, this happens for *all* the professions :)
Jul 16 16:04:22 <RST38h> Somebody has got a time machine: http://gizmodo.com/5315766/suspiciously-prescient-man-files-patent-for-ipod+like-device-in-1979
Jul 16 16:04:30 <lcuk2> mgedmin, :D ill bear that in mind then, thx
Jul 16 16:06:26 <mgedmin> suggestions for a good text search engine with Python bindings would be welcome
Jul 16 16:06:51 <VDVsx> RST38h, humm, wondering what type of media, the patented proto would play :P
Jul 16 16:07:13 <slonopotamus> mgedmin, sphynx? or how it is called...
Jul 16 16:07:38 <VDVsx> RST38h, oh, flash based, smart guy :)
Jul 16 16:08:11 <RST38h> VDVsx: I strongly suspect there is a birth record for him somewhere in the 80s =)
Jul 16 16:08:23 <lcuk2> mgedmin, mysql database with a few fields - spend half a day running an import and then make everything wrok from there
Jul 16 16:08:27 * mgedmin has heard of pylucene and xapian
Jul 16 16:08:43 <mgedmin> lcuk2: make that postgresql and I'll consider it
Jul 16 16:08:50 <RST38h> mgedmin: Don't
Jul 16 16:09:01 <lcuk2> if you complain louder, ill make it MS access :P
Jul 16 16:09:04 <mgedmin> it's way past time to fill in my hole of knowledge of full-text search indexing
Jul 16 16:09:05 <VDVsx> RST38h, eheh
Jul 16 16:09:10 <slonopotamus> mgedmin, xapian too
Jul 16 16:09:15 <RST38h> mgedmin: As much as I hate to say it, Postgress has got much lower performance than goddamn MySQL
Jul 16 16:09:33 <mgedmin> ooh, a flame war approacheth
Jul 16 16:09:45 <RST38h> mgedmin: No treating it as a religious subject
Jul 16 16:10:00 <mgedmin> I've heard that when you add the missing sql features such as transaction support mysql slows down to match postgresql
Jul 16 16:10:00 <RST38h> mgedmin: Just had trouble with Postgress recently.
Jul 16 16:10:05 <mgedmin> :)
Jul 16 16:10:06 <Jaffa> Wow, that iPod-esque patent is amazing.
Jul 16 16:10:28 <RST38h> mgedmin: Guess so. But I remember reading somewhere that MySQL has added transactions already. Subqueries too
Jul 16 16:10:43 <lcuk2> how good is sqlite for single process performance then
Jul 16 16:10:54 <lcuk2> does it beat a local instance of mysql/postgre etc
Jul 16 16:11:05 <RST38h> Dunno, tried using it but hit a problem with being unable to update it from the PHP app
Jul 16 16:11:13 <RST38h> Permissions problem
Jul 16 16:11:33 <lcuk2> thats not the database libraries fault tho
Jul 16 16:11:40 <RST38h> correct
Jul 16 16:11:43 <mgedmin> I've heard sqlite is not exactly stellar when talking about performance
Jul 16 16:11:47 <mgedmin> it's just very very convenient
Jul 16 16:11:55 <RST38h> Well, it is kinda MS Access for Unix :)
Jul 16 16:11:58 <lcuk2> yeah, it feels like using MS access
Jul 16 16:12:04 <lcuk2> snap!
Jul 16 16:12:09 <lcuk2> ish
Jul 16 16:12:36 <ShadowJK> I suspect it's difficult to use sqlite properly
Jul 16 16:13:14 <ShadowJK> or then people are just lazy and call fsync() repeatedly instead
Jul 16 16:13:16 <mgedmin> except no GUI :)
Jul 16 16:13:40 <RST38h> Good riddance.
Jul 16 16:15:24 <javispedro> gizmodo overdoing it as usual
Jul 16 16:15:36 <javispedro> in the 90s a device MIGHT have had enough flash to store 3 minutes of audio
Jul 16 16:15:56 <javispedro> but in the 70s, I believe the world's entire supply of flash memory wouldn't have been enough to store 3 minutes of uncompressed audio
Jul 16 16:16:04 <lcuk2> ShadowJK, its quite easy to use sqlite properly
Jul 16 16:16:26 <RST38h> javispedro: it is a little better than that
Jul 16 16:16:30 <RST38h> But yes, more or less
Jul 16 16:16:45 <lcuk2> mgedmin, i am used to no gui in access, i have created files from thin air and defined entire structure from code anyway
Jul 16 16:17:38 <mgedmin> does sqlite have full text indexing?
Jul 16 16:17:42 <RST38h> javispedro: Any chance to see the new version of OpenTTD in Extras? =)
Jul 16 16:17:49 <RST38h> prolly not, why would it?
Jul 16 16:18:08 <RST38h> But we have got Google for that :)
Jul 16 16:18:09 <javispedro> RST38h, you mean the one with kinetic?
Jul 16 16:18:16 <RST38h> javispedro: Yep
Jul 16 16:18:33 <RST38h> javispedro: And hopefully with the fix for "cannot save" problem
Jul 16 16:19:06 <javispedro> RST38h, dunno about that. you have writable MyDocs/.games/OpenTTD folder?
Jul 16 16:19:26 <RST38h> javis: No idea, I have not created it by hand
Jul 16 16:19:26 <VDVsx> interesting, may be for android or samsung wants to join the linux party: http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=5140264&gid=125638&trk=EML_anet_qa_ttle-0Pt79xs2RVr6JBpnsJt7dBpSBA
Jul 16 16:19:29 <RST38h> Let's see
Jul 16 16:20:30 <javispedro> RST38h, the game should create it for you, but "shit happens" ;)
Jul 16 16:20:50 <RST38h> Weird...
Jul 16 16:21:02 <RST38h> I have lost a symlink /home/user/MyDocs
Jul 16 16:21:46 <javispedro> this to all of #maemo: I am using $MYDOCS_DIR env variable to get MyDocs path, I assume this is documented somewhere and is the "right way", isn't it?
Jul 16 16:22:17 <RST38h> Hopefully it should work now: I have MyDocs symlinked to /media/mmc1/MyDocs
Jul 16 16:22:25 <RST38h> And something killed the symlink
Jul 16 16:22:34 <javispedro> i didn't for sure :D
Jul 16 16:22:49 <amr> anyone here recommend the best place to start with python dev for the tablet?
Jul 16 16:22:55 <amr> can i just develop here and test on the tablet?
Jul 16 16:24:09 <javispedro> as for the kinetic version, I'm trying to debug a issue where sometimes, when it's "decelerating" it ignores taps
Jul 16 16:24:29 <RST38h> javis: Oh...There is a couple of guys here doing a lot of kinetic stuff
Jul 16 16:24:34 <RST38h> javis: They may help
Jul 16 16:24:52 <javispedro> RST38h, I believe it's more an OpenTTD thing
Jul 16 16:25:03 <VDVsx> amr, for none ui stuff yes, ui stuff is better to test in the tablet/sdk
Jul 16 16:25:21 <amr> thats what i said
Jul 16 16:25:23 <amr> and test on the tablet
Jul 16 16:25:38 <VDVsx> then yes, at least works very well for me
Jul 16 16:25:42 <VDVsx> :)
Jul 16 16:26:01 <amr> hms are there any handy ui libraries i should look at?
Jul 16 16:26:58 <VDVsx> amr, you have to pick one first :) : qt, gtk+, efl
Jul 16 16:27:22 <amr> oh no :<
Jul 16 16:27:35 <amr> dare i ask, is there a recommended one?
Jul 16 16:27:40 <amr> i assume qt
Jul 16 16:28:17 <javispedro> qt for maemo > 5, gtk for maemo < 5 :D
Jul 16 16:28:29 <amr> oic
Jul 16 16:29:39 <VDVsx> amr, if you choose gtk/hildon, here is some good docs IMO: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_hildon_tutorial/html/index.html
Jul 16 16:30:28 <VDVsx> maemo5 aka fremantle ^^
Jul 16 16:30:48 <Luke-Jr> amr: Qt
Jul 16 16:30:59 <Luke-Jr> amr: GTK+ is suck
Jul 16 16:31:32 <amr> this is why i said 'dare i ask' :p
Jul 16 16:31:41 <amr> cheers VDVsx
Jul 16 16:31:42 <javispedro> ah, the flames :P
Jul 16 16:33:12 <coldboot> fiferboy: You around today?
Jul 16 16:35:26 <amr> hmmm... my network is so funny on the tablet
Jul 16 16:35:29 <amr> im quite tempted to reflash
Jul 16 16:35:32 <amr> it's that tempremental
Jul 16 16:36:35 <amr> there, i left it alone for 5 minutes and tried to do an apt-get and it just sat on "connecting"
Jul 16 16:36:35 <amr> reconnect and bang, it works
Jul 16 16:36:44 * qwerty12_N810 wonders why hildon-desktop is so anal-retentive about "if (priv->drag_lock) gtk_check_menu_item_set_active(GTK_CHECK_MENU_ITEM(menu_item), TRUE);"
Jul 16 16:37:20 <javispedro> qwerty12_N810, because the computa never gets it right the first time
Jul 16 16:38:09 <qwerty12_N810> Hehe, I had to set no-lifeguard-reset just so I could start it up again :(
Jul 16 16:38:48 <andre__> Stskeeps, thanks for elaborating Mer. Going to keep it as a reference :)
Jul 16 16:42:54 <Stskeeps> andre__: i sometimes have difficulties determining it :P
Jul 16 16:43:07 <Stskeeps> we operate with Mer as distro and Mer as upstream in some other areas :P
Jul 16 16:46:31 <wazd_> WebOS SDK is available
Jul 16 16:46:40 <wazd_> downloading it right now :)
Jul 16 16:46:47 <woglinde> hm
Jul 16 16:47:18 <woglinde> re coldboot
Jul 16 16:47:46 <qwerty12_N810> Wow, I was retarded. Setting the state to priv->drag_lock directly worked.
Jul 16 16:47:52 <ShadowJK> lcuk2: maybe the firefox issues with filesystem I/O wasn't due to how it used sqlite then :)
Jul 16 16:49:04 <ShadowJK> iirc the kernel people tried to educate them, or atleast sat in a corner and threw a hissy fit, on when/how to use fsync, fdatasync and friends :)
Jul 16 16:49:37 <ShadowJK> and this was something that had very noticeable impact (multisecond stalls) on fast harddrives
Jul 16 16:49:55 <RST38h> ShadowJK: There is a solution for that
Jul 16 16:50:03 <ShadowJK> and on tablet we're stuck with sd which is like a fast tapedrive in performance :)
Jul 16 16:50:10 <coldboot|bb> woglinde: re me what?
Jul 16 16:50:19 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Removing FF SQLite files or making them unreadable improves FF load times
Jul 16 16:50:32 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Saves space too
Jul 16 16:50:34 <ShadowJK> not talking about load times
Jul 16 16:50:46 <woglinde> coldboot just irc slang for welcome back
Jul 16 16:50:55 <RST38h> But, I mean, isn't beheading the best acne cure?
Jul 16 16:51:24 <derf> It has some side-effects.
Jul 16 16:51:34 <javispedro> lol itunes already blocking the pre
Jul 16 16:52:24 <javispedro> serves 'em right
Jul 16 16:52:33 <ShadowJK> anyway, if someone with as many people as mozilla had issues doing it right, to the point where it caused big performance issues on fast hardware, I'm afraid what "random" devs will end doing on tablet :)
Jul 16 16:52:36 <qwerty12_N810> "Support" was done via a hack, not unexpected :)
Jul 16 16:52:49 <javispedro> now, who wants to develop a gadgetfs app to make the nits appear as ipods? ;)
Jul 16 16:53:01 <Stskeeps> should be fairly easy :P
Jul 16 16:53:39 <derf> ShadowJK: Mozilla has as many people as it does because their codebase (including dependencies, which many of them actively develop on as well), is huge.
Jul 16 16:53:52 <ShadowJK> I winder what happened to norway's consumer protection agencies suing apple for locking ipod/itunes to eachother and locking out competitors :)
Jul 16 16:53:54 <derf> Doing _anything_ is ridiculously hard. Doing it right doubly so.
Jul 16 16:55:03 <ShadowJK> oh yes, with sqlite you'll have one huge file instead of many tiny files.. getting that right without causing long stalls is what's hard :)
Jul 16 16:55:47 * javispedro smells new crazy time-hole project
Jul 16 16:56:19 * ShadowJK has just been tortured with too much crappy software that's made itself slow because someone decided to include sqlite "just because" :)
Jul 16 16:56:54 <javispedro> ShadowJK, PalmOS Cobalt had sqlite as its only "storage"
Jul 16 16:57:07 <ShadowJK> what's that kde music player? amarok? needed about 5 seconds to change from one mp3 track to another, cpu busy groping the databases
Jul 16 16:57:27 <ShadowJK> cpu and hd
Jul 16 16:57:46 <javispedro> ShadowJK, the benefit of sqlite is that you can now improve sqlite itself
Jul 16 16:57:54 <qwerty12_N810> To be fair, Amarok does give the user the choice of what DB engine it uses :P
Jul 16 16:57:59 <javispedro> instead of huntering each and every developer developing its own slow db engine
Jul 16 16:58:46 <ShadowJK> well.. in the case of amarok it's been faster with realloc()d arrays
Jul 16 16:58:53 <ShadowJK> it would have been*
Jul 16 16:59:09 <woglinde> on windows its even worser
Jul 16 16:59:23 * javispedro needs a good nelson muntz Ha Ha! image for the "itunes blocks Palm Pre" thread
Jul 16 16:59:25 <woglinde> searching over temp files
Jul 16 16:59:28 <woglinde> for crypto stuff
Jul 16 17:04:03 <Jaffa> javispedro: http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/nelson-muntz.gif
Jul 16 17:04:16 <Jaffa> javispedro: Pretty easy with "nelson muntz ha ha" into Google, TBH ;-)
Jul 16 17:04:47 <javispedro> Jaffa: yep, but worried about $RANDOM_WEBSITE suing me for "stealing" ;)
Jul 16 17:05:21 <javispedro> either way I like yours, thanks :D
Jul 16 17:05:52 <fiferboy> coldboot: I'll be here for a while
Jul 16 17:06:18 <woglinde> javispedro hi
Jul 16 17:06:22 <javispedro> hi
Jul 16 17:06:26 <woglinde> javispedro I have something for you
Jul 16 17:06:40 <javispedro> hope it's not a bugreport ;)
Jul 16 17:06:56 <woglinde> javispedro maybe you can write Edward Nevill to get some help with yazell
Jul 16 17:07:08 <woglinde> http://camswl.com/openjdk/
Jul 16 17:07:52 <javispedro> already saw that, was discussed here
Jul 16 17:07:57 <woglinde> ah okay
Jul 16 17:08:00 <woglinde> sorry
Jul 16 17:08:11 <javispedro> don't worry ;)
Jul 16 17:08:26 <javispedro> problem is that's not a bare interpreter
Jul 16 17:09:01 <javispedro> and Jazelle is designed to work around a bare interpreter + "maybe" a JIT for "hot spots"
Jul 16 17:10:05 <javispedro> hmm... I need a very simple java benchmark
Jul 16 17:10:24 <javispedro> something like non-recursive version fibonacci or anything like that
Jul 16 17:10:34 <lcuk2> i need a very simple cup of hot java
Jul 16 17:11:07 <javispedro> as a teacher I know used to say, "Java is not hot anymore"
Jul 16 17:11:07 <javispedro> ;)
Jul 16 17:11:56 <lcuk> colleague at work broke my cup the other day, for some reason he never wants a brew when i offer to make one with his favorite cup now
Jul 16 17:14:47 <RST38h> javispedro: Fortunately
Jul 16 17:15:13 <Macer> hm
Jul 16 17:15:21 <Macer> my damn comcast modem died on me
Jul 16 17:15:21 * RST38h seen a software engineering article once (circa 2002) titled "If Java is the answer, then what was the question?"
Jul 16 17:15:27 <Macer> probably a bird landing on it or something
Jul 16 17:15:43 <Macer> BUT.. it came back up so i guess it was an outage
Jul 16 17:15:46 <Macer> and allowed me to call them
Jul 16 17:15:59 <Macer> and find out i can pay the same price for 2.5x the upstream and 2x the down
Jul 16 17:16:00 <Macer> heh
Jul 16 17:16:02 <RST38h> Macer: Have you managed to get a human?
Jul 16 17:16:06 <Macer> RST38h: sure
Jul 16 17:16:09 <Macer> it's a business line
Jul 16 17:16:11 <RST38h> Coool
Jul 16 17:16:12 <RST38h> Ah
Jul 16 17:16:15 <Macer> takes 1 minute to talk to someone haha
Jul 16 17:16:59 * RST38h remembers basically hacking Comcast "customer support specialists" to make them hit an abort clause in their scripts
Jul 16 17:17:04 <javispedro> and does that human talk your local language?
Jul 16 17:17:58 <Macer> javispedro: yeah
Jul 16 17:17:58 <RST38h> Every time the next "specialist" reaches a line in his script that says "Forward to the next layer of support", the next guy gradually becomes more human
Jul 16 17:18:01 <Macer> actual americans
Jul 16 17:18:05 <Macer> doing american tech support!
Jul 16 17:18:06 <Macer> :)
Jul 16 17:18:10 <RST38h> Macer: no shit?
Jul 16 17:18:14 <Macer> swear to god
Jul 16 17:18:22 <RST38h> Crisis must have been really bad ...
Jul 16 17:19:20 * RST38h only got at American at the 3rd tier from the bottom, and had to crash the guy to get to a real normal American human a the 4th tier
Jul 16 17:19:28 <Macer> oh wait
Jul 16 17:21:44 <lbt> coldboot: fiferboy:  http://blog.gitorious.org/2009/07/15/new-merge-request-functionality/
Jul 16 17:24:20 <Macer> well
Jul 16 17:24:26 <Macer> speakeasy has me at 30mbit down and 10 up
Jul 16 17:24:27 <Macer> heh
Jul 16 17:24:28 <fiferboy> lbt: I had read that before, but it doesn't shed any light on the problem I was having with my merge requests reducing to the first commit
Jul 16 17:24:33 <Macer> that's pretty neat
Jul 16 17:24:37 <coldboot> lbt: cool
Jul 16 17:25:01 <lbt> There was a followup on the mailing list saying the problem was fixed... so I thought I'd mention it here too
Jul 16 17:25:18 <coldboot> lbt: Yeah I was working with Johan last night to figure out why I couldn't push.
Jul 16 17:25:27 <fiferboy> Should I redo my merge requests?
Jul 16 17:25:27 <lbt> I just saw the backlogs
Jul 16 17:25:33 <lbt> fiferboy: yes
Jul 16 17:26:02 <fiferboy> lbt: It seems like I just request for the most recent commit and it will do the previous ones as well, I'll try that
Jul 16 17:26:11 <lbt> yes
Jul 16 17:26:39 <coldboot> for QWidget::nativeParentWidget() here: http://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-maemo-developers/qt/qt-maemo/blobs/hildon-input-method/src/gui/kernel/qwidget.cpp#line3898
Jul 16 17:26:50 <SpComb> hrmph, bad report on the n810-reboot-cycle-while-charging thing
Jul 16 17:27:03 <coldboot> Is it ever going to get up to the top-level parent, discover it's got no internalWinId, and return NULL?
Jul 16 17:27:20 <SpComb> got my tablet back from warranty service today... good news is, they swapped it for a new table... bad news, they left the old battery in, and it was just as broken as before :(
Jul 16 17:27:23 <coldboot> Or is there always an ancestor with an internalWinId?
Jul 16 17:27:35 <lbt> yes
Jul 16 17:27:39 <SpComb> *a new tablet
Jul 16 17:27:41 <lcuk> SpComb, how do you know they left it in
Jul 16 17:27:48 <lcuk> are you sure its not related to the apps you have installed
Jul 16 17:27:51 <lbt> kinda by definition
Jul 16 17:27:52 <amr> http://s2.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/web02/2009/7/8/16/twitter-time-travel-1390-1247083589-11.jpg
Jul 16 17:27:53 <amr> how nerdy
Jul 16 17:27:53 <lcuk> ie bad apps running draining
Jul 16 17:28:09 <coldboot> lbt: You mean there is always an ancestor with an internalWinId?
Jul 16 17:28:13 <lcuk> heh thats class
Jul 16 17:28:18 <SpComb> lcuk: freshly flashed tablet, also directly from the factory, warranty replacement, no apps installed
Jul 16 17:28:26 <lbt> coldboot: yes. Think about it.
Jul 16 17:28:27 <lcuk> and whats it doing?
Jul 16 17:28:39 <coldboot> lbt: I was pretty sure, just wanted to confirm.
Jul 16 17:28:43 <SpComb> well, I'm trying to find the related thread on the forums
Jul 16 17:28:44 <lbt> :)
Jul 16 17:29:14 <lbt> some window has to be rendered in the native system to make it visible
Jul 16 17:29:23 <SpComb> lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29213
Jul 16 17:29:38 <Macer> hm
Jul 16 17:29:41 <Macer> have to test the speeds
Jul 16 17:29:43 <lcuk> SpComb, too busy to look in forums, 1 sentence answer
Jul 16 17:30:29 <javispedro> n810-reboot-cycle-while-charging
Jul 16 17:30:33 <SpComb> lcuk: software resets from BME_rx-44 while charging, and then eventually battery life goes waaaay down
Jul 16 17:30:56 <lcuk> tried a different charger
Jul 16 17:31:09 <lcuk> perhaps the one you have is sending dirty electrons
Jul 16 17:31:19 <SpComb> happens with all three standard nokia chargers I've tried
Jul 16 17:31:26 <javispedro> cause it's difficult for a big company to send you defective material as part of an RMA
Jul 16 17:31:28 <locutus> lcuk: brown ones are the worst
Jul 16 17:31:33 <SpComb> the thread indicates it's a battery-specific issue, and it seems like it is
Jul 16 17:32:14 <SpComb> I just went a bought a new BP-4L battery, remains to be seem how well it works with that
Jul 16 17:32:30 <lcuk> SpComb, have you tried it from a different location, or to the point, do you suffer from bad electric/brownouts/shorts etc
Jul 16 17:32:32 <SpComb> my old battery (the one I bought with the device a year ago) has a very noticeably bulge in it
Jul 16 17:32:40 <SpComb> lcuk: in different countries
Jul 16 17:32:55 <javispedro> what? battery itself its the best filter ever
Jul 16 17:33:08 <fiferboy> lbt: Yay, merge request worked
Jul 16 17:33:17 <SpComb> but seems the battery itself is physically deformed... explains why getting the back cover back on was so difficult
Jul 16 17:33:24 <SpComb> perhaps 1.5mm in the middle
Jul 16 17:33:25 <lcuk> if the one you have has a deformation, send that back
Jul 16 17:33:43 <SpComb> the battery only has 6 months of warranty...
Jul 16 17:33:56 <lcuk> then be happy with your new one
Jul 16 17:34:02 <SpComb> and after spending a week without my n810 I'm not so willing to go bring it back again :)
Jul 16 17:34:22 <javispedro> only a week and you're complaining? :D
Jul 16 17:34:34 <SpComb> but it does seem like there's some kind of fairly common issue with roughly year-old batteries
Jul 16 17:34:37 * lcuk dreads to think how much battery screw ups i should have
Jul 16 17:34:44 <lcuk> i abuse my 810 continuously
Jul 16 17:34:56 * javispedro still uses factory year-and-a-half old battery
Jul 16 17:35:07 <lcuk> charge/drain cycles and dripping for weeks etc
Jul 16 17:35:10 <SpComb> http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=304807 <-- same issue here
Jul 16 17:35:11 <lcuk> me too
Jul 16 17:35:30 <SpComb> I'm not the only one
Jul 16 17:36:14 <javispedro> batteries die, that is not uncommon
Jul 16 17:36:41 <SpComb> javispedro: it just doesn't seem like typical behviour to me, though
Jul 16 17:36:59 <SpComb> javispedro: I can understand it going from full to empty in 15 minutes of use, but having the entire device reboot while charging?
Jul 16 17:37:05 <lcuk> the crashing is odd
Jul 16 17:37:06 <javispedro> yours' isn't, the last thread you posted is
Jul 16 17:37:16 <SpComb> the silliest thing is that at first, battery life was fine... it lasted hours... but it would reboot while charging
Jul 16 17:37:23 <SpComb> then battery life started to gradually go down
Jul 16 17:38:00 <SpComb> javispedro: "fter flashing to gain the new "gps" functionality of the most recent version of 2008 my tablet began rebooting when ever it was on the charger. The tablet reboots several times over the charging period. I would have thought it was a battery issue until a friend of mind started experiencing the exact same problem"
Jul 16 17:38:05 <SpComb> javispedro: from the previous link
Jul 16 17:38:29 <javispedro> "nice anecdote. NEXT!"
Jul 16 17:38:49 <SpComb> well, it's unfortunate, because it's apparently not covered by warranty
Jul 16 17:39:02 <SpComb> but I do have a shiny new n810 now
Jul 16 17:39:10 <SpComb> plus one brand new battery and one phyiscally deformed one
Jul 16 17:39:11 <javispedro> but it's a battery problem for sure, since sw can suck a battery dead in minutes
Jul 16 17:39:17 <javispedro> s/can/can't/
Jul 16 17:39:18 <infobot> javispedro meant: but it's a battery problem for sure, since sw can't suck a battery dead in minutes
Jul 16 17:40:13 <SpComb> and if the new battery doesn't help, I can take it back to Nokia Care and complain some more
Jul 16 17:40:22 <lcuk> javispedro, do not underestimate the sucking power of a team of developers
Jul 16 17:40:43 <javispedro> luck: does your n810 generate steam sometimes? :P
Jul 16 17:40:49 <lcuk> it has actually once
Jul 16 17:40:50 <javispedro> darn typos
Jul 16 17:40:56 <SpComb> javispedro: but it's not purely a battery *capacity* issue, since at first, that wasn't an issue
Jul 16 17:40:57 <lcuk> when i left it all day charging in the crate
Jul 16 17:41:00 <lcuk> with a wooden book ontop
Jul 16 17:41:06 <lcuk>  the screen was hot to touch
Jul 16 17:41:13 <lcuk> and the entire unit was even worse
Jul 16 17:41:30 * lcuk hasnt made that mistake again
Jul 16 17:43:59 * javispedro remembers tinkering a battery-powered device until it started generating steam... in the 90s
Jul 16 17:44:05 <javispedro> the "device" was quite heavy
Jul 16 17:44:10 <javispedro> was scared for life :P
Jul 16 17:44:56 <RST38h> javispedro: I had a power supply meltdown a few years ago
Jul 16 17:45:36 <RST38h> javispedro: the usual brick thing, apparently wasn't dynamic, the casing went liquid but it still worked =)
Jul 16 17:45:57 <javispedro> lol
Jul 16 17:46:16 <javispedro> i've had a few power supply meltdowns too... athlons are so hot ;)
Jul 16 17:47:33 <coldboot> lbt: fiferboy: When I modified the way events are forwarded to widgets in this code, it never gets called: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/nhooey-qt-maemo-bugfixes/blobs/221ccad2867d9cd0e57b7517acaf69012c0abea9/src/gui/kernel/qapplication_x11.cpp#line3312
Jul 16 17:49:23 <fiferboy> coldboot: Where is you getHIMProxy function?
Jul 16 17:49:34 * javispedro wants a maemo 2 theme for diablo
Jul 16 17:50:41 <coldboot> fiferboy: It's a part of QWidget.
Jul 16 17:50:58 <coldboot> fiferboy: It just returns a QWidget*, it's a simple get/set method.
Jul 16 17:51:14 <fiferboy> coldboot: Is the code exiting in the if statement above that block?
Jul 16 17:51:28 <coldboot> fiferboy: It might be, I just realized that.
Jul 16 17:52:14 <coldboot> How do you guys use a debugger on the device?
Jul 16 17:52:27 <RST38h> Using printf(0s here
Jul 16 17:52:46 <javispedro> coldboot, grab the gdb package from sdk repo
Jul 16 17:52:52 <javispedro> but DO NOT enable the whole sdk repo
Jul 16 17:57:39 <coldboot> javispedro: I guess I want to copy the libQtGui.so.4.5.0.debug to libQtGui.so.4.5.0 on the device?
Jul 16 17:58:05 <javispedro> don't know about qt internals, sorry
Jul 16 18:07:22 <woglinde> coldboot you could gdbserver too
Jul 16 18:07:26 <woglinde> +use
Jul 16 18:10:47 <woglinde> coldboot install the -dbg package, I hope there is one
Jul 16 18:11:22 <coldboot> woglinde: I'm compiling my own debug library, so that doesn't help.
Jul 16 18:11:50 <coldboot> woglinde: I don't know how to use the qt debug libraries for an app instead of the default one. Copying .so.debug to .so on the device causes all Qt apps to segfault...
Jul 16 18:15:11 <woglinde> nope
Jul 16 18:15:27 <woglinde> hm you need a .debug dir
Jul 16 18:15:33 <woglinde> put the debug lib there
Jul 16 18:15:47 <coldboot> Where?
Jul 16 18:16:06 <woglinde> where resides your Qtlibs?
Jul 16 18:16:25 <coldboot> The Qt libs are in /usr/lib, so are the .so.debug libs.
Jul 16 18:17:04 <woglinde> okay make a /usr/lib/.debug dir
Jul 16 18:17:17 <woglinde> put the dbg-lib into /usr/lib/.debug
Jul 16 18:24:16 <wazd> ok, looks like palm emu is slightly buggy now
Jul 16 18:24:47 <javispedro> wazd: does it use virtualbox?
Jul 16 18:24:56 <wazd> javispedro: yep
Jul 16 18:25:22 <javispedro> so it's webos x86 then
Jul 16 18:25:38 <wazd> javispedro: well, I guess 32 bit works fine but on my Vista x64 it seems to have some bugs.
Jul 16 18:26:02 <wazd> Btw, what's awesome that this SDK is for all 3 major platforms
Jul 16 18:26:09 <wazd> Nokia, wink wink :)
Jul 16 18:30:09 <javispedro> wazd: try to update the sdk virtualbox if you dare :)
Jul 16 18:33:04 <wazd> javispedro: well, the problem is that you need to install java, vbox and Modjo SDK separately
Jul 16 18:33:15 <wazd> javispedro: and in my case it can't locate java :(
Jul 16 18:33:41 <javispedro> maybe your java is too cold? ;)
Jul 16 18:34:04 <wazd> javispedro: yep, I've tried espresso'n'stuff already :)
Jul 16 18:34:20 <javispedro> btw I guess you all java haters here would hate webos, it's using both JAVA servlets and JAVAscript (I know they're not related ;) )
Jul 16 18:36:39 <fiferboy> lbt: HIM doesn't make a differenct for the "small deltas" bug, and the scroll widget definitely gets focus when scrolling
Jul 16 18:58:11 <lbt> fiferboy: OK, good to know
Jul 16 18:58:29 <fiferboy> I'll keep working on it.
Jul 16 18:58:37 <fiferboy> I'm glad the merge request was correct this time
Jul 16 19:02:39 <coldboot> There's a lot of mixed tabs and spaces in the qt-maemo code...
Jul 16 19:06:21 <Macer> heh
Jul 16 19:06:31 <Macer> coldboot: it's ok. that is the future of nokia
Jul 16 19:07:39 <lbt> fiferboy: introduce yourself to git on your laptop
Jul 16 19:07:49 <lbt> Author: Andrew Olmsted <fiferboy@fiferboy-laptop.(none)>
Jul 16 19:07:58 <woglinde> hihi
Jul 16 19:08:00 <fiferboy> lbt: Hehe, I forgot whether I had done that
Jul 16 19:09:47 <fiferboy> I think I had probably done it at some point, but not global
Jul 16 19:10:41 <coldboot> Macer: What do you mean?
Jul 16 19:11:44 <coldboot> fiferboy: I think I've found it. That code was getting disqualified because it was asking questions about keywidget, instead of proxywidget.
Jul 16 19:11:59 <fiferboy> Ah, good
Jul 16 19:12:13 <coldboot> fiferboy: I made proxywidget = keywidget->getHIMProxy() ? keywidget->getHIMProxy() : keywidget;
Jul 16 19:15:57 <wazd> ok, I was a bit dumb :)
Jul 16 19:16:17 <wazd> SDK required javs SDK, not JRE :D
Jul 16 19:18:09 <woglinde> hehe yes
Jul 16 19:18:53 <wazd> oops
Jul 16 19:18:58 <wazd> wrong button :)
Jul 16 19:23:40 <fiferboy> lbt: If I have a build branch and the make process creates a whole bunch of non-tracked files does that screw up anything in my other branches?
Jul 16 19:23:59 <lbt> no
Jul 16 19:24:24 <lbt> what can make sense is to have 2 git repos
Jul 16 19:25:04 <fiferboy> lbt: I was just thinking that, it would me much easier to have one with the changes I am making, and another that I don't care what happens to to build in
Jul 16 19:25:08 <lbt> clone from gitorious; then clone locally.  The 2nd local clone is checkedout to the build branch
Jul 16 19:25:28 <lbt> then edit the gitorious clone and pull/merge to the build one
Jul 16 19:26:19 <fiferboy> How do I perform the second clone?
Jul 16 19:26:38 <wazd> wee, it works!
Jul 16 19:26:42 <lbt> git clone /path/to/other
Jul 16 19:27:09 * lbt has thousands of the damn things
Jul 16 19:27:36 <fiferboy> Nice, very nice
Jul 16 19:27:39 <javispedro> first jazelle benchmark says 8x times faster
Jul 16 19:28:01 <javispedro> not that much :(
Jul 16 19:28:02 <RST38h> javispedro: You got jazelle to work or what?
Jul 16 19:28:22 <javispedro> RST38h, you don't subscribe my newsletter or what?? :D
Jul 16 19:28:35 * RST38h does not
Jul 16 19:28:46 <javispedro> joking
Jul 16 19:28:54 <wazd> RST38h: I got Pre emu working :D
Jul 16 19:29:03 <javispedro> 8x is not that much considering this is a totally idealistic benchmark
Jul 16 19:29:08 <RST38h> wazd: Wrote an app ? :)
Jul 16 19:29:09 <javispedro> consisting only in integer operations
Jul 16 19:29:19 <wazd> RST38h: not yet :P
Jul 16 19:29:28 <RST38h> javispedro; I was told of x3 speed bump for realistic apps
Jul 16 19:29:39 <slonopotamus_> jazelle?
Jul 16 19:29:48 <javispedro> jazelle vs jamvm
Jul 16 19:29:52 <javispedro> still need to apt-get cacao
Jul 16 19:29:54 <slonopotamus_> javispedro, link, quick!
Jul 16 19:30:04 <RST38h> javispedro: "only integers" limitation is realistic, MIDP is limited to integers
Jul 16 19:30:06 <slonopotamus_> :P
Jul 16 19:30:13 <javispedro> binaries soon
Jul 16 19:30:16 <RST38h> Floating point is overrated anyway :)
Jul 16 19:30:42 <RST38h> wazd: Is that Pre thing the world salvation or just another gimmick?
Jul 16 19:30:50 <javispedro> btw, the benchmark I finally settled on is checking if 9876103 is prime with world's lamest algorithm
Jul 16 19:30:58 <slonopotamus_> javispedro, binaries are nothing, source is everything :)
Jul 16 19:31:15 <javispedro> takes 48.30s in jamvm
Jul 16 19:31:17 <coldboot> Can someone test this video, let me know if you see it move at all: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/17699/record-mydesktop-test.ogv
Jul 16 19:31:27 <javispedro> 6.2 in my jazelle vm
Jul 16 19:31:30 <coldboot> Or if it just sits on the first frame the entire time...
Jul 16 19:31:56 <woglinde> its working coldboot
Jul 16 19:32:02 <woglinde> hm oh
Jul 16 19:32:03 <coldboot> woglinde: You see me moving my mouse around?
Jul 16 19:32:06 <javispedro> slonopotamus_, source will come too :D
Jul 16 19:32:16 <RST38h> javispedro: BTW, we still do not have a practical MIDP environment for Maemo ;)
Jul 16 19:32:17 <wazd> RST38h: well, dunno bout salvation, but it's definitely shiny :)
Jul 16 19:32:29 <woglinde> coldboot no mouse but menus appers
Jul 16 19:32:33 <wazd> does anybody know any online IRC client?)
Jul 16 19:32:37 <coldboot> woglinde: Okay cool
Jul 16 19:32:45 <coldboot> woglinde: And you see the mouse menu changing?
Jul 16 19:32:47 <RST38h> javispedro: One that would simple let users execute .jar/.jad files by clicking on them in file manager
Jul 16 19:33:03 <javispedro> RST38h, that requires boring work :/
Jul 16 19:33:04 <woglinde> coldboot hm there is defenitly somethin missing
Jul 16 19:33:08 <RST38h> wazd: www.web-irc.org
Jul 16 19:33:12 <woglinde> but it dont stays on the first frame
Jul 16 19:33:13 <lbt> http://wiki.maemo.org/IRC
Jul 16 19:33:41 <RST38h> javispedro: should only require minimal amount of packaging, as long as you have got native MIDP implementation =)
Jul 16 19:33:42 <javispedro> RST38h, the issue is not between integers vs fp but just integer operations vs allocations, invokes, jumps and all that
Jul 16 19:34:03 <RST38h> javispedro: well can't do much about allocations
Jul 16 19:34:11 <RST38h> javispedro: they will suck anyway
Jul 16 19:34:26 <javispedro> so that means real workloads will show way less than 8x
Jul 16 19:34:27 <RST38h> javispedro: invokes and jumps can be magically enhanced though :)
Jul 16 19:34:42 <javispedro> jazelle does not handle _quick opcodes, or so it seems
Jul 16 19:34:53 <RST38h> javispedro: Real workloads do not allocate data left and right. Only if they are written by idiots.
Jul 16 19:35:47 <RST38h> ahhahaha
Jul 16 19:35:54 <RST38h> this is from the emulator, right?
Jul 16 19:36:09 <javispedro> does the pre rule? :D
Jul 16 19:36:50 <wazd> hmm, I can't see myself from the desktop :)
Jul 16 19:37:13 <wazd> btw web-irc is absolutely unusable on Pre :D
Jul 16 19:37:18 <wazd> too small
Jul 16 19:37:19 <javispedro> I suck
Jul 16 19:37:23 <javispedro> Cacao is faster :(
Jul 16 19:37:39 <javispedro> 4 vs 6 seconds
Jul 16 19:37:46 <woglinde> javis haha
Jul 16 19:37:55 <RST38h> Ah don't push yourself, it is a dead language anyway
Jul 16 19:38:08 <woglinde> javis openjdk with new bigasm is faste than cacao
Jul 16 19:38:09 <woglinde> I bet
Jul 16 19:38:22 <RST38h> My mighty 6502 virtual machine can run faster :)
Jul 16 19:39:29 <woglinde> trying to build it right now
Jul 16 19:39:33 <woglinde> with oe
Jul 16 19:39:53 <coldboot> woglinde: Do you see things happening in the video?
Jul 16 19:40:04 <woglinde> coldboot yes
Jul 16 19:40:07 <coldboot> woglinde: ok
Jul 16 19:40:13 <woglinde> in the end a second menu goes up
Jul 16 19:40:20 <woglinde> hm wait
Jul 16 19:40:25 <woglinde> I will look again
Jul 16 19:40:40 <woglinde> oh its gone
Jul 16 19:40:44 <woglinde> did you delete it?
Jul 16 19:41:02 <woglinde> aeh
Jul 16 19:41:22 <wazd> mail app is nice
Jul 16 19:41:40 <wazd> it just asked me login and pass, thats all
Jul 16 19:42:13 <woglinde> and then?
Jul 16 19:42:15 <woglinde> no mail?
Jul 16 19:42:20 <wazd> and thats all :)
Jul 16 19:42:30 <wazd> it automaticaly recognized gmail I guess
Jul 16 19:42:37 <wazd> nope, all works fine :)
Jul 16 19:42:47 <javispedro> all has to be said, the benchmark I used is the ideal one for a JIT too. Just one small-sized method, compile it and fly
Jul 16 19:42:58 <woglinde> cool
Jul 16 19:43:02 <woglinde> can you share it?
Jul 16 19:43:07 <wazd> oh, russian language works fine O_o
Jul 16 19:43:17 <woglinde> I would like to try it with openjdk then
Jul 16 19:43:40 <wazd> one click attachment download
Jul 16 19:44:10 <wazd> it's trying to view doc file :)
Jul 16 19:45:43 <wazd> I have a strange bug :)
Jul 16 19:45:44 <javispedro> woglinde, http://pastebin.com/m797168cb
Jul 16 19:46:15 <wazd> the system didn't hang up but it doesn't allow me to turn off viewer or get back to cards :)
Jul 16 19:46:42 <wazd> since I don't have bottom area I think I have to restart it :)
Jul 16 19:48:11 <woglinde> javispedro thanks
Jul 16 19:48:25 <wazd> google maps work like google maps :)
Jul 16 19:49:03 <wazd> wow!
Jul 16 19:49:07 <wazd> that's hot!)
Jul 16 19:49:22 <javispedro> wazd: did it just try to kill your NIT? :D
Jul 16 19:49:23 <wazd> It automaticaly added all my gmail contact book to local book :)
Jul 16 19:49:43 <wazd> even with avatars and stuff :)
Jul 16 19:50:15 <wazd> I can even see Fiferboy with his cute kid :D
Jul 16 19:50:41 <fiferboy> wazd: That picture is probably a bit old now, but it is amazing you can see it at all!
Jul 16 19:50:57 <wazd> fiferboy: it's cute anyway :D
Jul 16 19:52:27 <wazd> memo's looks like post-it sheets but it's drawn like it is linoleum or something :D
Jul 16 19:52:40 <Corsac> what are you trying?
Jul 16 19:53:15 <wazd> Corsac: Pre emulator
Jul 16 19:53:19 <Corsac> oki
Jul 16 19:53:42 <wazd> oh, and it added my gmail account to it's messaging system
Jul 16 19:53:45 <wazd> that's cool!
Jul 16 19:54:36 <woglinde> thats only mean google knows to much about you
Jul 16 19:56:56 <fiferboy> wazd: Can you see if I'm online in Jabber?
Jul 16 19:57:14 <wazd> fiferboy: yep
Jul 16 19:57:32 <fiferboy> :O
Jul 16 19:59:00 <wazd> there's only 2 accout options, gt and aim :(
Jul 16 19:59:21 <javispedro> wtf
Jul 16 19:59:30 <javispedro> svn over sshfs filesystem mounted on tablet
Jul 16 19:59:35 <javispedro> ignores local changes
Jul 16 20:02:25 <johnsq> Hi
Jul 16 20:03:15 <javispedro> okay, source is at http://svn.javispedro.com/jaz/trunk/
Jul 16 20:03:28 <javispedro> I consistently get ~6.2s on a N810
Jul 16 20:04:05 <javispedro> (note: do not expect a full vm. the java bytecode to run is hardcoded. )
Jul 16 20:07:05 <javispedro> well, at least what ARM says is true: "Jazelle enabled VMs can achieve similar performance to compiler VMs using small memory footprint. "
Jul 16 20:08:15 <woglinde> nice work javis
Jul 16 20:08:28 <javispedro> try it on your device if you dare ;)
Jul 16 20:08:58 <javispedro> you can run it as "nobody" finely
Jul 16 20:10:02 <glass> javispedro: nice
Jul 16 20:10:43 <Jaffa> wazd: what're you running?
Jul 16 20:10:57 <wazd> Jaffa: Pre emu
Jul 16 20:10:58 <woglinde> jaffa plam-pre/wbeos emu
Jul 16 20:11:14 <Jaffa> wazd: Ah. On desktop?
Jul 16 20:11:20 <wazd> yep
Jul 16 20:14:58 <javispedro> hm, jaz doesn't build on scratchbox, will fix
Jul 16 20:15:53 <johnsq> javispedro: the arm java bytecode support, is only for java or more general?
Jul 16 20:16:45 <woglinde> javis hm whats the error in scratchbox?
Jul 16 20:17:09 <javispedro> johnsq, java bytecode. so if you get python to compile to java bytecode, it'll "accelerate" its integer operations too
Jul 16 20:17:23 <javispedro> woglinde, Error: bad instruction `ldm sp,{fp,sp,pc}'
Jul 16 20:17:45 <javispedro> which is not true since lenny's arm assembler translated it fine
Jul 16 20:17:47 <thopiekar> bb
Jul 16 20:18:01 <johnsq> javispedro: I have own compiler / bytecode language. but I don't like the java byte code
Jul 16 20:18:14 <javispedro> johnsq, then you don't want jazelle dbx at all
Jul 16 20:21:40 <javispedro> fixed, seems older version of gnu as expect ldmia instead of bare ldm
Jul 16 20:22:52 <javispedro> brb 1 hour or so
Jul 16 20:23:01 <woglinde> yes
Jul 16 22:05:32 <rm_you_> lcuk RST38h: one of my friends just put up an away message with a link to one of your BASH.org quotes :P
Jul 16 22:05:40 <rm_you> I lol'ed
Jul 16 22:18:51 <jhford> i am trying to create a standardized testing image for automation and I was wondering if there was a way to unpack the .bin firmware images
Jul 16 22:19:20 <wazd> rm_you: oh?)
Jul 16 22:20:15 <johnsq> jhford: flasher can it (iirc9
Jul 16 22:20:39 <wazd> oh, found it :D
Jul 16 22:20:57 <jhford> johnsq: oh?  i tried flasher-3.0 -u image.bin and it didn't do anything that i cuold see
Jul 16 22:21:20 <qwerty12_N810> Give it the "-F" param too
Jul 16 22:21:48 <esaym153> yep
Jul 16 22:21:57 <jhford> thanks :)
Jul 16 22:22:14 <wazd> http://i066.radikal.ru/0907/15/3aa637bed7b5.jpg <- quick work on OSM2Go icons
Jul 16 22:22:29 <jhford> qwerty12_N810: thanks!
Jul 16 22:22:40 <qwerty12_N810> np
Jul 16 22:23:10 <lcuk> rm_you, which
Jul 16 22:23:10 <jhford> if i modify the rootfs, do i need to recreate a fiasco image?
Jul 16 22:23:26 <wazd> lcuk: it's still in the latest
Jul 16 22:23:26 <lcuk> #hi btw
Jul 16 22:23:30 <lcuk> what is?
Jul 16 22:23:49 <qwerty12_N810> jhford: No, flasher has an option to flash a jffs2 file directly
Jul 16 22:23:52 <wazd> lcuk: http://bash.org/?latest
Jul 16 22:24:29 <jhford> qwerty12_N810: again, thanks :D
Jul 16 22:25:09 <lcuk> wazd, i found it ta :D
Jul 16 22:25:20 <lcuk> rm_you, 2009-03-15
Jul 16 22:25:26 <lcuk> a long time ago
Jul 16 22:25:46 * lcuk prefered this one
Jul 16 22:25:47 <lcuk> lcuk	i thought you could get giffs from your local bbs	22:12
Jul 16 22:25:47 <lcuk> lcuk	REDHOT~1.GIF ;)	22:13
Jul 16 22:25:47 <lcuk> lcuk	and after downloading you discover its a scan of someones fireplace
Jul 16 22:26:03 <qwerty12_N810> lmao
Jul 16 22:26:47 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: lcuk: http://i066.radikal.ru/0907/15/3aa637bed7b5.jpg <- what do you think?
Jul 16 22:27:04 <lcuk> waswas, could you please change your nick, i keep trying to message wazd and you get in the way.  tyvm hope you understand lol
Jul 16 22:27:18 <lcuk> i just looked wazd and i was trying to msg you back
Jul 16 22:27:22 <wazd> lcuk: :D
Jul 16 22:27:22 <lcuk> those look cool
Jul 16 22:28:04 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: I like it :)
Jul 16 22:29:06 <jhford> last question for today: how do i mount a jffs2 image or manipulate it
Jul 16 22:29:23 <lcuk> wazd, your balls look shiney and nice, where do you get stock from, are they in psp or whatever?
Jul 16 22:29:29 <lcuk> or hand rendered with 3d prog?
Jul 16 22:29:31 <qwerty12_N810> ...
Jul 16 22:29:54 <qwerty12_N810> Now, that's a quote :P
Jul 16 22:29:56 <lcuk> qwerty12_N810, shush, im admiring his balls
Jul 16 22:29:57 <wazd> )))
Jul 16 22:30:07 <qwerty12_N810> jhford: http://wiki.maemo.org/Modifying_the_root_image
Jul 16 22:30:11 <wazd> lcuk has just hacked my home porno archive I guess :D
Jul 16 22:30:18 <jhford> qwerty12_N810: that works :)
Jul 16 22:30:35 <lcuk> wazd, if you have balls in your home porno collection you are doing it wrong!
Jul 16 22:30:49 <wazd> lcuk: mine only :D
Jul 16 22:31:02 <wazd> lcuk: I draw them in PS btw, it's easy :)
Jul 16 22:31:32 <lcuk> ahhh so its just a ball generation tool
Jul 16 22:31:44 <wazd> lcuk: use of 3d rendering for them is a bit overkill :)
Jul 16 22:31:58 <wazd> lcuk: no, it's just shapes in right place :)
Jul 16 22:32:12 <wazd> lcuk: no automation :)
Jul 16 22:32:40 <lcuk> i actually managed to do some transparancy stuff last night
Jul 16 22:33:37 <lcuk> my rusty installation of psp7 barely manages to save pngs and restore them again
Jul 16 22:33:57 <lcuk> holy crap!
Jul 16 22:34:13 <lcuk> im just scavenging around my desktop pc to find media to be imported into my database
Jul 16 22:34:20 <lcuk> theres 24000 sketches
Jul 16 22:34:25 <lcuk> dupes of course
Jul 16 22:35:19 <javispedro> let me guess: all of the same sketch: wazd's balls
Jul 16 22:35:33 <wazd> eeek
Jul 16 22:35:48 <lcuk> :O
Jul 16 22:35:52 <lcuk> not on your nelly
Jul 16 22:36:13 <lcuk> wazds balls are too shiny to be a sketch
Jul 16 22:36:17 * javispedro grabs dictionary
Jul 16 22:36:36 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: isn't that why you've got 24,000 dupes? :?PJ
Jul 16 22:36:42 <lcuk> heh
Jul 16 22:36:42 <qwerty12_N810> *:P
Jul 16 22:36:57 <javispedro> nelly "inferior or cheap wine"
Jul 16 22:37:00 <lcuk> i need to find everything and import them, it will handle dupe removal, but its from backup folders and stuff
Jul 16 22:37:22 <lcuk> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=not%20on%20your%20nelly
Jul 16 22:37:41 <wazd> Pre UI is cool
Jul 16 22:37:57 * javispedro throws dictionary 
Jul 16 22:38:12 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: don't worry: lcuk speaks the northern dialect of English...
Jul 16 22:38:28 <wazd> And it's much easier to test than Fremantle ones :(
Jul 16 22:39:04 <javispedro> wazd: and I guess it may run on a x86 pc too, so it's just a few days until the chinese make a x86 pre ripoff
Jul 16 22:39:23 <lcuk> should run in firefox shouldnt it lol
Jul 16 22:39:34 <wazd> javispedro: maybe :)
Jul 16 22:39:37 <javispedro> lcuk: runs on chrome
Jul 16 22:39:45 <lcuk> no i dont
Jul 16 22:40:09 <wazd> I'm really surprised that russian language works absolutely fine in it
Jul 16 22:40:25 <javispedro> "A chromosexual is a person who rides a motorcycle and tries to put every piece of chrome available on their bike."
Jul 16 22:40:29 <lcuk> what res is it runnin at?
Jul 16 22:40:31 <javispedro> - urban dictionary
Jul 16 22:41:13 <wazd> 320x480 I guess
Jul 16 22:41:18 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: I thought Maemo had this feature too? :D
Jul 16 22:41:45 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: yep, but Pre never meant to be released in here I think :)
Jul 16 22:41:52 <amr> hmms
Jul 16 22:42:01 <amr> reckon i can get 5 hours of wifi out of an n810?
Jul 16 22:42:14 <amr> im really not very consistent with using my tablet
Jul 16 22:42:15 <lcuk> easily with power saving
Jul 16 22:42:19 <amr> oh good
Jul 16 22:42:30 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: really? I thought Russian phone market wasn't as convoluted as US one...
Jul 16 22:42:32 <lcuk> if you use adhoc tho it will die in 4.2 hours exactly
Jul 16 22:42:41 <amr> lol
Jul 16 22:42:44 <amr> exactly? :P
Jul 16 22:42:51 <lcuk> not a second more or less
Jul 16 22:42:54 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: noone wants to work here :)
Jul 16 22:43:11 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: greedy providers, no subsidizing allowed
Jul 16 22:43:13 <javispedro>  I get two full days with WLAN_INFRA as long as you use it as a paperweight
Jul 16 22:43:23 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: absolutely no sense of marketing
Jul 16 22:43:34 <lcuk> i can now leave irc idling for days
Jul 16 22:43:39 <lcuk> the screen does the damage
Jul 16 22:43:58 <amr> oh
Jul 16 22:44:03 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: Ah. I thought it was just Canada that had really bad mobile phone networks :)
Jul 16 22:44:31 <lcuk> i wonder when im gonna put the extra stuff into the .git
Jul 16 22:44:44 <jhford> qwerty12_N810: canada does indeed have god-awful cell phone systems
Jul 16 22:45:11 <wazd> I've fount one issue, menu left/right scrolling is super lame
Jul 16 22:45:35 <wazd> I just found out that it works :) Only by chance
Jul 16 22:46:12 * lcuk hates side to side panning for some things
Jul 16 22:46:46 <wazd> and icons are pretty inconsistent
Jul 16 22:46:57 <qwerty12_N810> jhford: heh, I hear prices are extremely exorbitant...
Jul 16 22:47:19 <jhford> i have a 250min/month package with basic data for $65/month
Jul 16 22:47:40 <jhford> the data is on a phone so bad that it is useless
Jul 16 22:47:41 * lcuk has exactly 2 icons in system
Jul 16 22:47:47 <lcuk> ooh 3
Jul 16 23:06:26 <amr> lcuk, liqbase-playground is lovely
Jul 16 23:06:30 <amr> it's so smooth and quick
Jul 16 23:06:59 <lcuk> yeah :)
Jul 16 23:07:06 * lcuk is busy actually making use of everything now
Jul 16 23:08:05 <amr> i hope many people use your lib and make software that doesn't suck
Jul 16 23:09:00 <amr> also, is minigpsd worth installing?
Jul 16 23:09:08 <lcuk> i dunno
Jul 16 23:09:27 <amr> when i have a-gps on the gps usually connects pretty quick so i'm not too fussed about the speed boost
Jul 16 23:10:05 <lcuk> about other people using it, it doesnt bother me, i just wanted something to code in that didnt feel like it was underpowered
Jul 16 23:10:17 <lcuk> ive never installed agps
Jul 16 23:10:28 <amr> yeah i watched your presentation at maemo summit
Jul 16 23:10:31 <lcuk> we dont have a problem gettin a lock in the car
Jul 16 23:10:33 <amr> you're right, devices aren't cheap
Jul 16 23:11:02 <amr> and the vast majority of software out there doesn't show the tablet in a good light :/
Jul 16 23:11:06 <lcuk> getting better tho
Jul 16 23:11:11 <amr> yeah
Jul 16 23:11:23 <amr> i forget what its called..
Jul 16 23:11:24 <lcuk> people are grasping that minimalistic approach works best
Jul 16 23:11:31 <amr> yeah exactly
Jul 16 23:11:39 <amr> the python program that connects to wordpress and such
Jul 16 23:11:46 <amr> might just my wordpy or something like that
Jul 16 23:11:49 * lcuk sees too many big fat complex desktop apps
Jul 16 23:12:22 <amr> i was watching the screencast for that app in maemo5 (i think thats what its called...)
Jul 16 23:12:27 <lcuk> yeah, tis lookin good
Jul 16 23:12:28 <amr> and it was just designed so badly
Jul 16 23:12:33 <amr> you liked it? :<
Jul 16 23:12:53 <lcuk> i like it as an overview of whats possible yeah
Jul 16 23:13:07 <amr> oh
Jul 16 23:13:30 <lcuk> specific design doesnt bother me
Jul 16 23:13:31 <amr> i didn't like that when loading a view to display comments, you had to press 'get'
Jul 16 23:13:42 <lcuk> its people having the tools to be able to work it thats important
Jul 16 23:13:52 <amr> surely thats silly, you want it to auto get
Jul 16 23:14:03 <lcuk> thats design for ya - hackers arent designers, and designers arent hackers
Jul 16 23:14:08 <amr> yeah
Jul 16 23:14:17 <amr> os software has loads of good programmers
Jul 16 23:14:24 <amr> but not so many of the good designers :<
Jul 16 23:14:48 <amr> or at least from what i've seen
Jul 16 23:14:53 <lcuk> :) i am trying to show as much user content as possible
Jul 16 23:15:09 <lcuk> it should be the users' stuff that fills the screen and things that relate to them ;)
Jul 16 23:15:16 <lcuk> i can almost skimp on design :D
Jul 16 23:15:29 <amr> yeah i'm all for that
Jul 16 23:16:04 <lcuk> graffiti wall in playground now looks like it used to :) with proper datebars and im just sorting out multiselect
Jul 16 23:16:16 <amr> i dont have a graffiti wall
Jul 16 23:16:20 <amr> i dont think
Jul 16 23:16:27 <amr> i installed from extras-devel
Jul 16 23:16:31 <lcuk> you do - its just a list of sketches in yours
Jul 16 23:16:38 <amr> oic
Jul 16 23:16:41 <lcuk> technically, you have a LOT of things in there
Jul 16 23:16:46 <amr> lol
Jul 16 23:16:58 <amr> hms, i dont see any sketches
Jul 16 23:17:14 <lcuk> have you drawn any..
Jul 16 23:17:15 <amr> top left i have a calendar, top right tags, below that photos, middle is a clock?
Jul 16 23:17:19 <amr> oh duh
Jul 16 23:17:31 <amr> aha
Jul 16 23:17:32 <amr> im a moron.
Jul 16 23:17:40 <amr> :<
Jul 16 23:18:01 <lcuk> did you say you are moving from leeds soon
Jul 16 23:18:18 <amr> well i'm at uni @ durham during term times
Jul 16 23:18:20 <amr> rest of the time here
Jul 16 23:18:27 <amr> and then leaving as soon as i graduate :p
Jul 16 23:18:43 <lcuk> hah
Jul 16 23:18:48 <lcuk> my mate went to leeds uni
Jul 16 23:19:08 <amr> oh?
Jul 16 23:19:21 <amr> i quite like the uni here
Jul 16 23:19:28 <amr> but im glad i moved away
Jul 16 23:20:01 <amr> oh damn, the graffiti wall is pretty swish
Jul 16 23:20:25 <lcuk> heh, thats bare bones version
Jul 16 23:20:37 <amr> if you need any testers ;)
Jul 16 23:20:41 <lcuk> no grouping, i cant wait to put the final bit in it
Jul 16 23:21:05 <lcuk> amr, its constantly being built back up
Jul 16 23:21:14 <lcuk> the .git is public
Jul 16 23:21:17 <amr> oh noice
Jul 16 23:21:22 <lcuk> and i do all building on the device itself :)
Jul 16 23:21:49 <lcuk> im just not releasing many packages, im loathed to need that one there tbh
Jul 16 23:22:57 <lcuk> proper release will be out soon :)
Jul 16 23:23:01 <amr> :D
Jul 16 23:23:33 <lcuk> #liqbase is where i mostly waffle and release stuff, and probably where the first user accounts will be given to
Jul 16 23:23:53 <lcuk> ( http://liqbase.net/liqbase_net_preview.png )
Jul 16 23:24:28 <amr> oh helo :o
Jul 16 23:25:04 <Luke-Jr> o hai thar amr
Jul 16 23:25:11 <amr> hello der
Jul 16 23:30:03 <wazd> too bad that designers aren't hackers :(
Jul 16 23:38:51 * javispedro hates weird command line parsing
Jul 16 23:38:53 <javispedro> dpkg - warning: ignoring request to remove --force-all which isn't installed.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 17 02:59:56 2009