**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 28 02:59:57 2009 Sep 28 03:00:00 so don't use ubuntu if that's such a horrible thing Sep 28 03:00:07 And that's but one example of the crap you have to deal with when you use Ubuntu. Sep 28 03:00:11 certainly not a point against it Sep 28 03:00:13 Exactly why I don't. Sep 28 03:00:26 DEFINTELY a point against it. Sep 28 03:00:38 HA ! A point of contention! Sep 28 03:01:09 the only thing i saw so far in ubuntu that i want in debian is that program that tells you the package(s) containing a command you typed that is not installed Sep 28 03:01:12 that is awesome Sep 28 03:01:16 I liked it when LInux was hard Sep 28 03:01:23 The good thing about Ubuntu is because it has a large user base so shit moves fast and gets fixed fast. Sep 28 03:01:39 And chances are that if you want to try something, someone else already has. Sep 28 03:01:50 pupnik: Agreed. Sep 28 03:01:53 not too fast 6 momnth release cycle Sep 28 03:02:09 better to use a rolling distro Sep 28 03:02:09 Not talking about release cycle. Sep 28 03:02:16 well fixes Sep 28 03:02:33 most programs do not get upgraded till new release Sep 28 03:02:36 comhack, you sound like you ahvent been using linux that long Sep 28 03:02:45 since 2001 Sep 28 03:03:37 i'm a little pissed at intel with moblin Sep 28 03:03:43 I don't want to say "I liked it when Linux was hard"... I just don't like it when some distros decide to break things that should be standard with Linux distros. Sep 28 03:03:46 weren't they on-board with maemo? Sep 28 03:05:00 I thought they were, at least, that was the impression I got at the ELC back in April... Sep 28 03:25:12 zerojay: yeah the ubuntu guys just lie awake dreaming of ways to piss people like me off Sep 28 03:25:29 or some of them seem to Sep 28 03:25:57 i maek bettur! now you put number 2 in number 4 instead of number 3! Sep 28 03:26:32 'Jesus, *why* you myopic codemonkey...' Sep 28 04:01:38 pupnik: It really feels like that, honestly. Sep 28 04:02:54 :) Sep 28 04:03:48 now we can understand grandparents better eh, zerojay Sep 28 04:04:27 'in my day, we didn't *need* to have a telephone everywhere' Sep 28 04:04:50 Pidgin 2.6.2 out now. Sep 28 04:05:59 zerojay: I am running it currently... Sep 28 04:06:12 Cool. Sep 28 04:08:13 * milos_ likes to run development ver. of Ubuntu, everything so fresh... Sep 28 04:08:37 I'm talking about the Maemo version. Sep 28 04:09:51 anyone suggest a jabber server that supports most of the main IM gateways? Sep 28 04:09:58 (Ironically enough.) Sep 28 04:09:59 gateways ftl Sep 28 04:10:11 luke-jr: Thanks, helpful as usual. Sep 28 04:11:44 'main IM gateways'? Sep 28 04:12:30 Yes, gateways for the most used IM services.. aka AIM, MSN and Yahoo. Sep 28 04:13:34 jabber doesn't require gateways to run on the same server as your account Sep 28 04:13:52 Yes, I know. Sep 28 04:14:21 then why do you want them on one server? Sep 28 04:14:27 Ugh. Sep 28 04:14:31 Forget I asked. Sep 28 04:15:07 * slonopotamus just setup his own one Sep 28 04:15:36 I used to run a public Jabber server for TMO back in the day before RTCOMM killed the need. Sep 28 04:15:58 When it was still ITT. Sep 28 04:16:48 slonopotamus: addy? Sep 28 04:17:12 luke-jr, no u Sep 28 04:17:19 slonopotamus: What jabberd are you using? Sep 28 04:17:36 zerojay, ejabberd Sep 28 04:17:39 slonopotamus: -.- Sep 28 04:17:54 slonopotamus@slonopotamus.org ? Sep 28 04:17:56 luke-jr, haha :D Sep 28 04:18:20 luke-jr, that was too long for me Sep 28 04:18:27 me@slonopotamus.org ? Sep 28 04:18:40 Kind of amazing seeing how far XMPP has gone... and yet... hasn't gone. Sep 28 04:18:57 luke-jr, almost. marat@... Sep 28 04:20:42 zerojay: hasn't? Sep 28 04:20:50 who uses something other than XMPP these days? Sep 28 04:21:31 luke-jr: Only 90% of the entire world. Sep 28 04:22:15 10 or 11 years now... Sep 28 04:22:43 ... Sep 28 04:23:01 everyone I know uses XMPP if any IM Sep 28 04:23:04 who needs them anyway Sep 28 04:23:09 lol Sep 28 04:23:42 I used to be a regular in the Jabber chatroom at jabber.org ages ago... 1999 or so with stpeter and the gang. Sep 28 04:24:50 lol Sep 28 04:25:08 Back when presence barely worked and there were maybe three or four public jabber servers... before the AIM scare. Sep 28 04:25:23 O.o Sep 28 04:25:29 AIM scare? Sep 28 04:26:00 Back when jabber.org hosted all the IM gateways themselves.. until AIM started blocking and cutting them off. Sep 28 04:26:08 oh that Sep 28 04:26:25 yeah, I think I did actually use gateways back then Sep 28 04:27:22 does icq still send password in plain text? Sep 28 04:27:44 slonopotamus: ICQ is AIM now Sep 28 04:27:53 I haven't a clue. I still sit on ICQ, but I don't know why. All I ever get is Russian spam on it. Sep 28 04:27:54 has been for quite some time Sep 28 04:28:09 zerojay: probably nostalga Sep 28 04:28:19 I have my (no longer used) ICQ number memorized Sep 28 04:28:19 Habit too. Sep 28 04:28:23 11653284 Sep 28 04:28:27 9282836 Sep 28 04:28:32 first time I recollected it in like 5 years Sep 28 04:28:43 luke-jr, the program itself is still called icq, though Sep 28 04:29:02 zerojay: did you use Excite! PAL too? Sep 28 04:29:02 A friend of mine had one in the 4 digit range and still refuses to drop it for that reason... as if anyone cares about ICQ anymore anyways. Sep 28 04:29:09 luke-jr: Nope. Sep 28 04:29:10 lol Sep 28 04:29:17 zerojay: do you at least know it existed? Sep 28 04:29:24 nobody else in the world seems to even remember it :/ Sep 28 04:29:27 I don't remember it, to be honest. Sep 28 04:29:35 not even Wikipedia Sep 28 04:29:41 Back then, almost all my communication was ICQ and IRC. Sep 28 04:29:47 zerojay: I think it predated ICQ Sep 28 04:30:23 IIRC, it was strictly online-only and you used your email as an identifier Sep 28 04:30:29 numeric login is the ugliest thing they could do Sep 28 04:30:48 slonopotamus: no wai, it's useful for elitists to brag about Sep 28 04:30:51 :p Sep 28 04:32:54 and encourages account theft/sales, yep Sep 28 04:39:52 I don't really remember any particular competing IM programs from back in the day.. I just remember ICQ did it better. Sep 28 04:39:59 Before it got all bloated and shit. Sep 28 04:44:02 * RST38h moos Sep 28 05:11:44 hello Sep 28 05:12:00 hi Sep 28 05:16:21 "I Fell In Love At The Apple Store" Is Destined to Become A Fanboy Classic Sep 28 05:16:24 * RST38h sighs Sep 28 05:16:40 anyone knows if there is a way toge the sdk working in mac osx? Sep 28 05:16:46 no. Sep 28 05:16:54 jauaor, use a linux VM Sep 28 05:16:57 Go fall in love at the apple store. Sep 28 05:17:14 RST38h: i already did Sep 28 05:17:15 :P Sep 28 05:17:20 johnx: that is cheating =) Sep 28 05:17:30 johnx: i see Sep 28 05:17:32 RST38h, then I cheat every freaking day at work Sep 28 05:17:38 haha Sep 28 05:17:40 cheater! Sep 28 05:18:17 though I think my definition of "cheat" and yours are pretty similar Sep 28 05:18:33 I often accuse people of cheating for finding simpler ways to do things :) Sep 28 05:19:00 using vm is not a simpler way to do things Sep 28 05:21:01 RST38h, there's simple from a "user" perspective and simple from a "machine" perspective Sep 28 05:21:05 both are valid viewpoints Sep 28 05:21:51 I just flashed my n810 while holding down the swap button, now the tablet is just displaying the Nokia logo, what gives? Sep 28 05:22:06 johnx: from user perspective it slows computer down to a crawl Sep 28 05:22:08 cmug, from windows or linux? Sep 28 05:22:12 johnx, linux Sep 28 05:22:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_on_Linux I followed this Sep 28 05:22:42 cmug: turn off, remove battery, reinsert battery, turn on Sep 28 05:22:43 cmug, do you have the output from the flasher program? did it give any errors? what command line did you run *exactly*? Sep 28 05:22:54 cmug: if it still does not boot, you bricked it, flash again Sep 28 05:23:06 RST38h, make qemu elf binary executor work on mac and then tell me it was simple Sep 28 05:23:22 johnx: I would not use mac at the first place, really =) Sep 28 05:23:31 RST38h, my point stands though :P Sep 28 05:23:36 100% (122496 of 122496 kB, avg. 7351 kB/s) Sep 28 05:23:36 Finishing flashing... done Sep 28 05:23:47 johnx, ./flasher-3.0.amd64 -F RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R Sep 28 05:23:59 johnx: yea, agree, but again, if you want to do development, Mac is the last platform you should consider Sep 28 05:24:15 RST38h, for a lot of people, you use what you have Sep 28 05:24:26 ALTHOUGH, maybe you can create a separate partition and place Ubuntu there? Sep 28 05:24:29 and really, linux under vmware on the mac isn't all that slow Sep 28 05:24:39 hey it booted now Sep 28 05:24:43 after I removed the usb cable Sep 28 05:24:44 RST38h, you could, but ... Sep 28 05:24:44 i have decent ram Sep 28 05:24:57 I guess it is ok? Sep 28 05:25:09 cmug, ah, yeah. I bet it was still in flashing mode Sep 28 05:25:20 in the future look to see if it shows the "usb" icon in the corner of the screen Sep 28 05:25:40 johnx, it did Sep 28 05:26:08 "Now you know, and knowledge is power!" Sep 28 05:26:28 indeed, just got the device so first experiences here Sep 28 05:27:20 good to have you on board :) Sep 28 05:27:40 yea I used to idle here before Sep 28 05:27:58 I got the n810 to run carman on it Sep 28 05:28:07 let's see what else productive I can do with it Sep 28 05:29:16 I like the big screen compared to the n900 Sep 28 05:29:38 moo Sep 28 05:45:14 morning Sts Sep 28 05:48:41 man, the N810 is certainly the right price right now Sep 28 05:50:08 ? Sep 28 05:50:13 did I wait too long to sell mine? Sep 28 05:50:38 nah. google says it goes for $220 new, but $250 used Sep 28 05:50:58 O.o Sep 28 05:51:08 so I could make a nice profit, eh? Sep 28 05:51:23 as long as people are actually stupid enough to buy used :) Sep 28 05:52:52 johnx: hey, I bought used... Sep 28 05:53:09 was buying new cheaper at the time? Sep 28 05:53:12 heck, I even bought mine across multiple sources for parts Sep 28 05:53:15 ah, true Sep 28 05:53:27 johnx: I'll include a MiniSD adapter ;) Sep 28 05:54:27 synergy rules Sep 28 05:54:45 fernand0, yup, so does x2x Sep 28 05:54:56 and teleport if you're mac only Sep 28 05:57:05 O.o Sep 28 05:57:20 isn't teleport a GTK app? Sep 28 05:57:42 this teleport http://abyssoft.com/software/teleport/ Sep 28 05:57:53 luke-jr, different teleport. what fernand0 said :) Sep 28 05:58:17 x2x looks nice too, though it wont let me use it with my windows desktop heh, that's why I like cross platform stuff :P Sep 28 05:58:26 x2vnc ;) Sep 28 05:58:27 my N810 was certainly the right price, $0 Sep 28 05:58:36 and X11 is plenty cross platform :P Sep 28 05:59:17 yea hehe, windows is the guilty one :p Sep 28 06:00:10 cmug: yeah, I concur. that's about what it's actually worth. Sep 28 06:00:44 too bad maemo 5 won't run on it :/ I hope they release a 'hacker edition' at least Sep 28 06:01:03 fernand0: Gentoo will Sep 28 06:01:16 fernand0, nokia won't. the community is working on something Sep 28 06:01:39 luke-jr, you're claiming that gentoo will support packages made for maemo5/n900? Sep 28 06:02:55 'on something'. hehe :) Sep 28 06:03:20 to be specific, Mer :) Sep 28 06:04:23 oh I know about Mer but, will it include the 'cool' stuff that maemo 5 got? like dashboard desktop, thumbnailed apps on desktop, etc, is that already opensourced? Sep 28 06:05:10 fernand0, well time will tell about whether it'll be opened or not, but I doubt the n8x0 really has the power to do that anyways (while maintaing decent performance, let alone battery life) Sep 28 06:06:06 johnx: no. Sep 28 06:06:50 johnx: as seems fairly clear, I am claiming Gentoo works on N810 Sep 28 06:06:59 I misread that Sep 28 06:07:43 Gentoo is hackers edition wherever it runs Sep 28 06:08:01 mwahaha Sep 28 06:08:22 the gentoo guys seem to like it that way Sep 28 06:08:45 or just don't have the time nor interest in changing it Sep 28 06:13:05 is there a list of "things to do to get started with n810" anywhere? Sep 28 06:13:25 well it depends on what you mean by "get started." Sep 28 06:13:32 start developing? start using it? Sep 28 06:13:36 what apps are good? Sep 28 06:13:43 start using it Sep 28 06:13:56 talk.maemo.org and downloads.maemo.org Sep 28 06:14:08 like, should I select the "Extend virtual memory" option? Sep 28 06:14:23 only if you're planning to run a lot of apps at the same time Sep 28 06:14:35 but it probably won't hurt anything to leave it on most of the time Sep 28 06:14:57 ok, any clue on the max memcard size? Sep 28 06:15:02 ccooke: ok received your script Sep 28 06:15:08 will have to try that Sep 28 06:15:13 (I can google too but since we have a dialog going) Sep 28 06:15:16 cmug, biggest sdhc card you can find Sep 28 06:15:23 sad part is that I'll have to let it plugged during the night because my wifi won't allow it to sleep Sep 28 06:15:27 johnx, very nice Sep 28 06:16:07 :( damn, was trying to compile a more recent version of pidgin but it fails Sep 28 06:28:41 woo it compiled now. Sep 28 06:41:01 * frals is waiting for all the MMS junkies/implementers and see the talk thread about MMS support Sep 28 06:41:09 * frals is preparing for a long wait Sep 28 06:44:06 hehe Sep 28 07:09:33 back Sep 28 07:13:05 who needs mms Sep 28 07:13:34 people with too many sms credits Sep 28 07:13:37 people who feel the need to send stupid pictures of their cat to their friends Sep 28 07:13:58 that's what email's for Sep 28 07:14:11 people who do not get the idea of mobile internet and are not willing to pay extra for it Sep 28 07:14:34 cheaper than mms if you pay full rate Sep 28 07:14:45 hhehhehe. Sep 28 07:14:47 Whoever they are, they constitute 2.5% of all messages Sep 28 07:15:19 only reason iphone people wanted mms was to shut up people who said iphone sucks, doesn't have mms Sep 28 07:15:34 aww come on. i use mms all the time. much easier than using email (most people don't have 24/7 email on their phones) Sep 28 07:15:42 so, this is why we are going to want MMS now? Sep 28 07:15:44 they're not that expensive anyway Sep 28 07:15:45 or people with friends who doesnt have push email to their phones yet :p Sep 28 07:15:47 ubiquity of MMS is nice... the technical details are not. Sep 28 07:15:58 get new friends Sep 28 07:16:04 it's the only way to improve society Sep 28 07:16:04 :( Sep 28 07:16:05 MMS is about .39€ a pop here Sep 28 07:16:14 or less Sep 28 07:16:18 hf with your push email friends =) Sep 28 07:16:21 that's a lot Sep 28 07:16:23 Sonera isn't well known for competetive prices Sep 28 07:16:44 I guess I just don't have many pictures I need people to see immediately... Sep 28 07:16:46 ubiquity comes from the fact that most platforms have successfully implemented the functionality back in the day when internet technologies just were not an alternative in the competition Sep 28 07:16:53 MMS is like 0.25€ a pop here, but most packages comes with free mms within the same provider or x free sms/mms / month afaik Sep 28 07:16:56 e0.39*45=r17.55=4.1MB of fdata Sep 28 07:17:03 competition for consumer mass market Sep 28 07:17:17 That is like my daily mobile data usage Sep 28 07:17:21 sending sms is more expensive than getting data from hubble Sep 28 07:17:47 I thought MMSes were the same cost as SMSes in .fi, but then again, haven't sent one in years Sep 28 07:18:00 they are, but you need 3 Sep 28 07:18:09 and for internet you pay .9€ for an hour Sep 28 07:18:28 so if my sister would send an email from her phone that contains a picture, one every two weeks Sep 28 07:18:42 Myrtti: This means you have got too expensive internet Sep 28 07:18:44 hm, they are more like 0.16€ here appearently, and SMSes are like 0.06€.. ;o Sep 28 07:18:45 which is cheaper, sending that picture as an mms or as an email...? Sep 28 07:19:06 RST38h: she doesn't *need* internet in her phone for anything Sep 28 07:19:06 the signalling logic of SMS is certainly attractive, too bad it isn't trivially implementable for phones with IP Sep 28 07:19:23 Myrtti: Still, e0.90/hr for internet is robbery Sep 28 07:19:26 without a dataplan the cost per MB here is 1.5€ Sep 28 07:19:51 e0.09/MB here Sep 28 07:19:51 RST38h: having a fixed rate package is too expensive to justify the usage of it for two emails Sep 28 07:19:55 or whatever Sep 28 07:19:57 rounded to 100kB every hour Sep 28 07:20:22 Myrtti: the e0.09/MB number is prepay, no fixed rate ;) Sep 28 07:20:42 on the other hand my 200MB package is 2.9€ pr mnth and every MB past 200 is like 0.16€/mb Sep 28 07:20:49 RST38h: what I meant there's no use for her to buy a package of 9.80€ or like for month Sep 28 07:20:50 * RST38h laughs satanically at poor tyranized europeans =) Sep 28 07:21:13 RST38h: which would allow her to do unlimited amount of data transfer at fixed speed Sep 28 07:21:24 Myrtti: This sounds like a good deal though Sep 28 07:21:30 there's pretty obvious cartel on bulk mobile internet prices in .fi. 1 Mbps costs 20 euros from every operator, 2 Mbps 30 euros, and even lower speed classes are the same to ten cents or so Sep 28 07:21:31 it is a good deal, I have it Sep 28 07:21:39 Myrtti: Maybe you should just teach her how to make use of all this data? Sep 28 07:21:58 couple years back all of them dropped the prices from earlier, equivalent levels to the current ones Sep 28 07:22:06 She's a coffee shop worker - where the bloody hell would she need that package? Sep 28 07:22:09 Heya all Sep 28 07:22:15 that's the point I've tried to make Sep 28 07:22:24 not everyone has mobile internet in their phone Sep 28 07:22:29 because not everyone needs it Sep 28 07:22:45 yeah Sep 28 07:22:45 they don't have use for it, and they don't want to pay for it Sep 28 07:23:26 which is why MMS is good from an end user pov. im quite positive it sucks donkey balls from a dev pov :p Sep 28 07:23:27 but they want pictures? Sep 28 07:23:37 if they want to send a picture of their cat to a friend maybe once a month, mms is far more affordable with even the ridiculously expensive price of .39€ a pop Sep 28 07:23:38 at e0.35 a pop? Sep 28 07:23:43 Sorry, 0.39 Sep 28 07:23:50 * kirma thinks he should actually downgrade his 1 Mbps deal to some pay-as-you-go one, as I think I haven't used more than couple ten megabytes per month lately (although that's going to change with next phone again...) Sep 28 07:24:11 * RST38h uses something like 100MB a month Sep 28 07:24:40 * kirma used to use maybe half a gigabyte per month at best Sep 28 07:24:47 my sister doesn't understand facebook status updates. Only thing she does there is play bloody bejeweled blitz. You can't play it with your mobile phone from facebook Sep 28 07:24:50 That would be difficult over egprs =) Sep 28 07:25:03 she doesn't have the urgent need to read her email every hour Sep 28 07:25:07 or check the news Sep 28 07:25:12 and then again, at home... well over hundred gigabytes per month. still, the fixed line and the mobile data deal are the same cost :I Sep 28 07:25:24 Myrtti: I am sure you CAN find some way to addict her to mobile internet =) Sep 28 07:25:26 i used 10mb last month appearently.. disabling images while surfing on the phone saves quite a bit appearently :P Sep 28 07:25:34 she uses her phone for sms, phone calls, taking a few pictures of her children, and maybe sending a picture or two to a friend with mms Sep 28 07:25:39 Myrtti: Maybe not right now, but eventially, putting your mind to it... =) Sep 28 07:25:40 and irc doesnt take too much data either Sep 28 07:26:05 RST38h: why would I? she doesn't need mobile internet, and certainly can live without the extra 10€ in her phonebill Sep 28 07:26:13 she still owes me 150€ from June Sep 28 07:26:51 I don't mind that n900 doesn't have mms Sep 28 07:26:52 I think the cheapest non-unreasonably priced mobile internet deals are something like 2-5 euros per month for modest amount of traffic Sep 28 07:26:59 clearly it's not made for people like my sister Sep 28 07:27:12 I have no use for mms Sep 28 07:27:17 I Sep 28 07:27:24 the data costs in the US are quite strange Sep 28 07:27:28 I'll buy n900 without the mms Sep 28 07:28:07 but in *general*, since we've let people to be accustomed to phones having mms, it's a feature we just can't pull from the phones Sep 28 07:28:12 I'd hope devices like N900 would put pressure on "mobile broadband" prices once again. although lowering them too much would cause network congestion trouble, which couldn't be solved without network hardware upgrades... Sep 28 07:28:13 voice+$30 for (not really) unlimited and $10 for this weird "unlimited mobile-web only" that only is valid for non-smartphones Sep 28 07:28:20 Myrtti: Oh. Sep 28 07:28:27 and by we I mean the "us techies who develop these things called phones" Sep 28 07:28:34 johnx: do they firewall ssh? Sep 28 07:28:51 * frals agrees with Myrtti, except for not having use of MMS :D Sep 28 07:28:54 Myrtti: I know plenty of non-techies around here who use mobile internet Sep 28 07:29:26 RST38h: good for you. I hope they can afford it. My sister can't Sep 28 07:29:33 I wonder how much or how the .fi operators actually enforce their rules which, at least some that I remember, state that running P2P on mobile broadband "isn't allowed" Sep 28 07:29:39 Myrtti: it is cheaper here Sep 28 07:29:41 RST38h, nope, it's some kind of transparent proxy Sep 28 07:29:46 Myrtti: on the other hand, lower salaries Sep 28 07:29:53 johnx: useless then =( Sep 28 07:30:00 which is sort of understandable limit, although it's certainly a trivialization of what they're trying to accomplish Sep 28 07:30:03 RST38h: it's really cheap here, but it's still too expensive in her use Sep 28 07:30:06 RST38h, useless that they don't firewall ssh? Sep 28 07:30:21 ssh goes through just fine... Sep 28 07:30:36 johnx: ah, you men they do not firewall Sep 28 07:30:52 correct. and the transparent proxy is ... actually transparent Sep 28 07:31:11 but if my usage gets high enough to gather attention I'll probably be dropped off that plan Sep 28 07:32:51 johnx: it actually sounds decent although I cannot understand how they can drop you Sep 28 07:33:02 If you sign for a year, let us say, won't that be a breach of contract? Sep 28 07:33:27 RST38h, it's a plan for "dumbphones" only, and forbids tethering Sep 28 07:33:34 and they "block" tethering with their custom firmware, but not very well Sep 28 07:33:43 Eh. Sep 28 07:33:46 s/firmware/phone firmware/ Sep 28 07:33:47 johnx meant: and they "block" tethering with their custom phone firmware, but not very well Sep 28 07:34:08 also, the data part is actually month-to-month for me Sep 28 07:34:27 johnx: god forbid if they tried to enforce such contract models in europe, or at least in .fi Sep 28 07:34:29 it'd suck though, cause I like them as a carrier well enough Sep 28 07:35:04 seems like data plans differs a lot between different countries :p Sep 28 07:35:16 I've got the impression that they enforce the contract pricing by observing phone IMEI Sep 28 07:35:34 in US, I mean. Sep 28 07:35:41 yup Sep 28 07:36:02 so the smart phones they subsidize aren't eligibile for the cheap data plans Sep 28 07:36:13 almost no one just orders a sim Sep 28 07:36:31 although from some perspective these things make sense, it still seems that competition on the mobile market just doesn't exist across the pond Sep 28 07:37:17 and it seems absurd when the operators lobby their stuff, obviously trusting on the chance that decision-makers don't know jack about the situation on other continents Sep 28 07:37:46 johnx: You can't use any phone on a contract?!? Sep 28 07:37:55 johnx: have to use the one they give you? Sep 28 07:38:09 btw until i read t.m.o. i had no idea some operators actually blocked tethering for 3g access Sep 28 07:38:23 RST38h, oh, you *can.* no one does Sep 28 07:38:39 kirma: Dropping all this crap and charging reasonable price per MB makes way more sense Sep 28 07:38:50 johnx: Gooood =) Sep 28 07:39:26 kirma: Then you can play with these traffic prices, like lower them at night, let users buy some amount at lower price, etc Sep 28 07:39:27 kirma, I don't see that many people *moving* to get better cell service :) Sep 28 07:39:52 people here just want simple and aren't smart enough to figure out that subsidized is more expensive in the long run Sep 28 07:39:58 johnx: what we need is Finnish telecoms buying the other companies ;-) Sep 28 07:40:07 *cough* like Sonera bought air from Germany Sep 28 07:40:14 *cough* *cough* Sep 28 07:40:21 we have t-mobile here. :) Sep 28 07:40:25 they play by US rules in the US Sep 28 07:40:30 even varying prices depending on time of day would be ok, as long as the service wouldn't be taken away or restricted for arbitary reasons, like las vegas casinos. after all, that kind of service has been applied on calls quite successfully... Sep 28 07:40:41 johnx: *all* the other companies Sep 28 07:41:37 kirma, people here would never go for it. people love their "unlimited" plans, even if a limited plan would be cheaper Sep 28 07:42:41 wow Sep 28 07:42:59 2.8GB incoming data on my N900 :-O Sep 28 07:43:14 and "unlimited" as long as you don't figure out a way to actually gain reasonable benefit from the plan Sep 28 07:43:19 crap. they're definitely gonna notice if I start using data like that O_o; Sep 28 07:43:48 kirma, people are fine with it because it doesn't affect them for the most part Sep 28 07:43:53 qwerty12_N810 you git! Sep 28 07:44:34 the iphone is changing that slowly I think, but it comes with a real "unlimited" plan, except it's destroying AT&T's service quality with everyone online all the time without caring about how much data they use Sep 28 07:44:52 quite a funny situation actually :) Sep 28 07:44:58 I still consider it funny that iPhone MMS was so strongly advertised as AT&T network meltdown event Sep 28 07:46:06 really. I didn't know they had a specific MMS meltdown Sep 28 07:46:16 I just thought they were just in a state of partial meltdown all the time Sep 28 07:46:27 I wonder how much network congestion there is in .fi networks in practice. I suspect considerably less... Sep 28 07:46:48 mavhc, johnx, thats why you have the Ovi share account and you put the picture there Sep 28 07:46:59 people pay attention to their data usage instead of hitting youtube on the bus, so yes, probably :) Sep 28 07:47:08 putting pictures on public accounts is not always wanted Sep 28 07:47:22 sounds like they rob the money from consumers and actively avoid proper capacity planning and upgrades, because that would give the customers better service than what keeps them on the network Sep 28 07:47:33 i want to sometimes send a picture to a specific user with the expectation of privacy and "for your eyes only" Sep 28 07:47:37 and of course when most customers are on several-year plan, it's not very hard to keep them Sep 28 07:47:43 lcuk, or you can send it to them on email Sep 28 07:47:50 kirma: Well, set the MB price so that 1GB of data costs the user $50, and you have solved most of the network problems while keeping users happy Sep 28 07:47:54 kirma, better than that: carriers aren't compatible with each other :D Sep 28 07:48:02 cmug, only a few people have email on their phones Sep 28 07:48:09 kirma: No need to disconnect people, sue them, firewall them, etc Sep 28 07:48:13 even if capable, most dont configure it Sep 28 07:48:13 you can't take the iphone (unlocked or not) to a different US carrier and use the 3G Sep 28 07:48:23 lcuk, when they buy the n900 (or two) they will Sep 28 07:48:35 kirma: Then, as your network grows, lower the price Sep 28 07:48:37 why would they Sep 28 07:48:46 because the will create a ovi email account Sep 28 07:48:48 i dont see the point in email on my mobile device Sep 28 07:48:59 cmug: Sure about it? Sep 28 07:49:02 its something i leave for big pc still Sep 28 07:49:12 RST38h, lets see :) Sep 28 07:49:25 conversely, in the US, the N900 will be t-mobile only (in terms of 3G access) Sep 28 07:49:26 s/will/should/ Sep 28 07:49:32 * lcuk has never configured an email account on any mobile device Sep 28 07:50:15 * RST38h used Modest today. What is this world coming to? Sep 28 07:50:17 the problem with email on the phone is that I get way too much of if to funnel it all to the phone, and a more dedicated filter for the stuff is going to drop lots of stuff that I want to read eventually anyway Sep 28 07:50:21 cmug, my email account gets so much traffic Sep 28 07:50:32 kirma: Headers-Only save the day Sep 28 07:50:34 so do mine Sep 28 07:50:39 kirma: And IMAP too Sep 28 07:50:51 why the bloody hell would I want my work email on my phone? Sep 28 07:51:11 cos your collegue might want to send you a picture! Sep 28 07:51:13 or get "You've been invited to an event" emails from facebook? Sep 28 07:51:14 Myrtti, spoken like someone who isn't permanently "on call" Sep 28 07:51:25 difference johnx Sep 28 07:51:25 johnx: most of us aren't Sep 28 07:51:26 rst38h: well, still, hundreds of emails per day are unbearable to even look at on a phone Sep 28 07:51:28 if you are oncall Sep 28 07:51:42 you get your work people to setup your work device Sep 28 07:51:45 kirma: it is fine if they are threaded Sep 28 07:51:57 lcuk, crap, I knew I was doing something wrong... Sep 28 07:52:01 if I'm not by my computer, I'm not working Sep 28 07:52:08 if I am, I most likely am Sep 28 07:52:28 johnx, why are you using your personal device as a work tool - i hope you are compensated accordingly Sep 28 07:52:35 * kirma is in many ways stuck into early nineties unix world technology-wise, and doesn't want to change very easily... although many things would get simplified if he did Sep 28 07:52:50 lcuk: I prefer to use a single device for everything, so no need for compensation Sep 28 07:53:11 lcuk, I'm working on making them define when I'm "on call" at least Sep 28 07:53:16 one step at a time Sep 28 07:53:23 lcuk: Now, if somebody insists on giving me a second device, there is a big chance it will be left at the desk Sep 28 07:53:42 RST38h, your personal preference is not the same thing Sep 28 07:53:54 i understand you can use the same device Sep 28 07:55:19 filtering is the key to success Sep 28 07:55:45 is the filtering documented clearly currently Sep 28 07:56:02 and could [random_person] set it up easily Sep 28 07:56:09 so they dont miss their work mails Sep 28 07:56:18 i don't filter on the phones, i filter on thunderbird or server directly Sep 28 07:56:27 erm Sep 28 07:56:54 i am a technically oriented person, so i find it difficult to think that somebody who would use filtering would need help setting it up Sep 28 07:57:13 i understand that my mother in law would not be able to setup filtering rules, but she receives one email per week Sep 28 07:57:24 i am a technical person also - i think and write in c at a very low level Sep 28 07:57:39 lots of people at my office receive huge amounts of email but are some of the least "technical" in the company Sep 28 07:57:41 email filtering is something i have rarely stepped into and is outside my field of knowledge Sep 28 07:57:50 think: customer service, marketing, etc Sep 28 07:57:52 why should i spend a week setting up something like that Sep 28 07:58:08 ok i give up Sep 28 07:58:19 you win, lets moan about lack of mms together Sep 28 07:58:29 lets find a solution rather Sep 28 07:58:41 i see there are people digging and seeign libraries and mechanisms Sep 28 07:58:52 and of course, someone at nokia itself has to know! Sep 28 08:01:22 sure if it can be implemented it should be Sep 28 08:03:39 nod, im sure some of the maemo guys have beers with some other guys from different departments. we might be a different OS but get the right people together and they might be able to find a solution Sep 28 08:04:46 I wonder if MMS implementations might have patent mines on trivial issues Sep 28 08:05:17 like, there's a bunch of patents related to text input methods (like T9, even if it's not exactly T9), and SMS Sep 28 08:05:42 sms is there Sep 28 08:05:51 patentability of those "inventions" is questionable at the best, but what can you do now Sep 28 08:05:56 and i have to say, works better than any other implementation ive ever used :$ Sep 28 08:06:23 I suppose N900 specifically chooses not to implement T9? Sep 28 08:06:32 it has a qwerty keyboard Sep 28 08:06:35 yep Sep 28 08:06:46 but so has E90... Sep 28 08:08:12 kirma, thats because it has a phone keypad too Sep 28 08:11:52 kirma: But you get T9 for free with Nokia's Symbian ;) Sep 28 08:12:57 s/free/included in price/ Sep 28 08:13:04 you don't get it in the free version Sep 28 08:13:23 T9 is propietary Sep 28 08:13:50 AStorm: Sure, but for Nokia it is no work to add it for E90 as they have it in every other phone. Sep 28 08:13:52 (while I could make a better, more accurate system w/o infringing on that fairly broad patent, it wouldn't be easy) Sep 28 08:14:09 true Sep 28 08:14:09 of course, it's licensed. but even trying to implement reasonably equivalent functionality would, stupidly enough, be a patent breach Sep 28 08:14:11 And those firmwares are just the basic components added together ;) Sep 28 08:14:35 kirma: that's why you have to read the patent and circumvent it Sep 28 08:14:38 :> Sep 28 08:14:43 should be possible Sep 28 08:14:54 I really see no use for T9 on N900 or N810. Sep 28 08:15:02 yes, there is none Sep 28 08:15:06 we have a full keyboard there Sep 28 08:15:42 AStorm, though if you read the pattent and they find you infringing you might suffer a larger fine then someone who claims they never heard of it ;) Sep 28 08:15:48 no. Sep 28 08:15:50 X-Fade: I can understand, but the patent issue spaghetti is probably one more reason pushing it away from the device... Sep 28 08:15:58 johnx: that doesn't work that way Sep 28 08:16:03 I just get a cease and desist Sep 28 08:16:07 and then I do that. Sep 28 08:16:33 kirma: Nah, how about not spending time on useless components ;) Sep 28 08:16:35 or I can take it to the court Sep 28 08:16:39 MMS is not so easy. I've been told there are technical requirements to have two separate IPv4 namespaces when dealing with MMS and GPRS/EDGE/3G at the same time, as gateways might have same IP networks provided and then you'd have collisions Sep 28 08:16:58 hehe Sep 28 08:17:12 simple - fix the gateway Sep 28 08:17:27 on every operator separately... Sep 28 08:17:30 the gateway is something that belongs to an operator Sep 28 08:17:33 ab: No way??? Sep 28 08:17:38 MMS gateway doesn't have to provide any networks Sep 28 08:17:44 only MMS. Sep 28 08:17:47 So THAT may be the reason for "kernel MMS support" Sep 28 08:18:08 the real fix is: add a correct route Sep 28 08:18:13 So it needs some kind of tunnel? Sep 28 08:18:28 RST38h, there are ways, of course, but someone needs to investigate them. My current metaphor is that an issue similar to have correct implementation of something like VLAN tagging over the same ethernet port Sep 28 08:18:29 so MMS gateway only gets one route Sep 28 08:18:37 exactly to its IP Sep 28 08:18:40 and nothing else Sep 28 08:19:00 hmm, although... Sep 28 08:19:10 the dumb ISP might be using a subnet to provide MMS Sep 28 08:19:11 AStorm, fun is in the case when both IPs are the same from both gateways Sep 28 08:19:19 I suppose MMS is run over separate ATM/ISDN virtual connection or whatever it should be called, which itself isn't bad, but overlapping routes sure make it more problematic Sep 28 08:20:13 so at least from my ISP-related past I know it is possible to solve on a stock 2.4/2.6 kernel but for what price and control over networking setup? Sep 28 08:20:39 I can imagine how it can be implemented without kernel modifications, but it's certainly more complicated than the benefit of having MMS for average N900 users would warrant straight away Sep 28 08:20:47 ab: then you add a multipath route? Sep 28 08:20:53 hmmh Sep 28 08:21:07 or rather, why then the other ASN won't accept MMS? Sep 28 08:21:23 kinda seems like the thing you put in, say a 5.1 release :) Sep 28 08:21:25 AStorm, I was thinking along the line of having packets tagged with iptables and then routed to a separate routing table within ip rule Sep 28 08:21:39 ab: yes yes, nice idea Sep 28 08:21:54 or instead, just routed via a device Sep 28 08:21:59 so you have ppp0 and ppp1 Sep 28 08:22:08 one for MMS, the other for internet Sep 28 08:22:13 both via different ASNs Sep 28 08:22:36 but that needs some kernel support, yes Sep 28 08:22:57 sure, but you need to have the packets tagged first because those interfaces might still have same IP subnets and you would need to help a routing a bit with proper tagging Sep 28 08:23:28 naah Sep 28 08:23:33 with such approach no kernel changes are needed but some user space work on tunnel setup and rules for firewall/ip rule Sep 28 08:23:34 you could rename the routes Sep 28 08:23:48 e.g. 123.123.123.0 -> MMS route Sep 28 08:23:57 via a hard iproute2 NAT Sep 28 08:24:28 ab: you still need kernel support Sep 28 08:24:29 note different ASNs Sep 28 08:24:38 so you need 2 ppp devices Sep 28 08:24:45 otherwise it will go through the wrong ASN Sep 28 08:24:51 and might get rejected Sep 28 08:25:04 if you have two interfaces, say ppp0, ppp1, both span the same IP subnet (GPRS gateway and MMS gateway gave you overlapping networks), you need to set routes quite carefully for that Sep 28 08:25:17 not carefully Sep 28 08:25:18 it's very simple really Sep 28 08:25:24 different metric (= priority) Sep 28 08:25:33 internet route gets higher priority Sep 28 08:25:54 yep, and then you'd need to tag packets based on a content, not only destination Sep 28 08:25:58 and then you add a hard dumb NAT (using some local IPs) to access that other route Sep 28 08:26:02 no. Sep 28 08:26:07 you do a trick Sep 28 08:26:10 ip renaming. Sep 28 08:26:13 far easier Sep 28 08:26:23 yep, that is what I was suggesting as well Sep 28 08:26:35 no, you were suggesting an owner match in iptables Sep 28 08:26:38 which is... ugh. Sep 28 08:26:41 no Sep 28 08:26:56 ab: or l7 match, even more ugly Sep 28 08:26:56 this is one of approaches, another was exactly what you have said Sep 28 08:27:21 ab | AStorm, I was thinking along the line of having packets tagged with iptables and then routed to a separate routing table within ip rule Sep 28 08:27:25 no. Sep 28 08:27:29 AStorm, care to write it up on wiki.maemo.org? Sep 28 08:27:38 ip rule would need some protocol match Sep 28 08:27:52 while NAT would need only a tiny bit of knowledge in the MMS app Sep 28 08:28:03 ip rule needs a mark from firewall, it is enough there Sep 28 08:28:04 (it must know about IP rename) Sep 28 08:28:18 mark from firewall based on what? Sep 28 08:28:23 ;p Sep 28 08:28:32 owner? protocol? both are ugly Sep 28 08:28:52 instead, I'd rather have MMS mapped to some constant ip subnet Sep 28 08:28:59 make sure you also cover a case when hosts A and B which belong to MMS and GPRS networks have the same IP and you need to send to A for MMS and access B on a GPRS network for everything else Sep 28 08:28:59 maybe even ipv6 to not clobber anything Sep 28 08:29:02 ;p Sep 28 08:29:26 this is something that guys internally were showing as evidence from some of operators Sep 28 08:29:26 sure it does, metric takes care of this case Sep 28 08:29:52 while the nat rule takes care of the rename and routes to the correct ppp device Sep 28 08:30:16 AStorm, please write your proposal on wiki.maemo.org Sep 28 08:30:21 and the routing table *doesn't* look at the metric then. Sep 28 08:30:29 (since the device is specified) Sep 28 08:30:37 ab: hmmh, I don't even have an account Sep 28 08:30:41 but I will write it down Sep 28 08:30:44 time to create :) Sep 28 08:30:48 after I implement a test setup here Sep 28 08:30:52 good Sep 28 08:31:27 or, you can add the routing info for MMS to another routing table Sep 28 08:31:33 but that may require a patch for ppp Sep 28 08:32:26 again, as I was saying :) AStorm, I was thinking along the line of having packets tagged with iptables and then routed to a separate routing table within ip rule Sep 28 08:32:41 tagged with iptables = fallible Sep 28 08:32:58 since any tagging done there will be either on owner (one process? please...) Sep 28 08:33:06 or content (slow and... meh) Sep 28 08:33:42 others will infringe on internet access Sep 28 08:34:02 although you could do a NAT in iptables Sep 28 08:35:02 ip rule can work with nat (it has nat option) Sep 28 08:36:14 it also has incoming interface to match, that would be an easiest thing if we could make it a sort of a tunnel where applications always send to a locally maintained address (on some tun/tap interface) Sep 28 08:36:43 and we re-write routing based on a packet that comes from that interface Sep 28 08:36:46 pure NAT Sep 28 08:37:08 incoming interface? ugh. Sep 28 08:37:20 worse than having some constant local ip range Sep 28 08:37:32 which is far easier to adapt apps to. Sep 28 08:37:48 e.g. you could have MMS on 127.0.127.x Sep 28 08:37:58 or such. Sep 28 08:37:59 just as what I was going to right Sep 28 08:38:02 write Sep 28 08:38:34 incoming on MMS is routed fine already Sep 28 08:38:53 (since ip rule will catch it) Sep 28 08:42:08 yes, it is more or less clear Sep 28 08:42:29 would be good to have a write up so that I can further point internal guys to this proposal Sep 28 08:44:06 http://17fc5c36.linkbucks.com Sep 28 09:19:31 awesome, i see talk about mms! :D *jumping around with joy* ;) Sep 28 09:20:33 * RST38h throws a stack of MMS standards documentation at frals Sep 28 09:20:41 MMS? Sep 28 09:20:53 way to bring me down fast, RST38h ;) Sep 28 09:21:01 would this be the appropriate place to ask about the N900? Sep 28 09:21:11 * RST38h calls the asylum in advance, to arrange for a recovery team Sep 28 09:21:29 hehe Sep 28 09:21:54 Sargun: probably, thats mostly what i do in here, when im not trying to get people insane by talking about mms ;) Sep 28 09:22:26 If I ordered the N900 right now (pre-order) when would I get it? (I'm in the US) Sep 28 09:22:34 Also, is the N900 locked to T-Mobile? Sep 28 09:23:01 none knows about shipping date, lots of speculation going on about the coming 2 weeks from some .eu nokia stores thou Sep 28 09:23:42 Afaik none is locking it, but it only supports T-Mobile 3G frequency in the US, so any other provider would give you EDGE at best Sep 28 09:26:03 astorm, ab, anyone interested in mms - i have posted the conversation. it is not a proposal though, wikieditors and people skilled can have a go and discuss how to clean up the details http://wiki.maemo.org/Mms_implemention_conversation Sep 28 09:26:47 feel free to add to it and post anything related :) Sep 28 09:27:00 :) Sep 28 09:27:05 cool Sep 28 09:27:07 * AStorm is fucking overtime Sep 28 09:29:22 AStorm, are you at the summit this year? Sep 28 09:30:18 no, it's in the hottest part of the semester Sep 28 09:30:22 the beginning Sep 28 09:30:38 I MIGHT go there. Sep 28 09:30:48 not sure if I'll be able to Sep 28 09:31:16 AStorm: If you haven't registered, you are out of luck anyway. Sep 28 09:33:00 sure I haven't Sep 28 09:33:03 so, I'm out of luck ;p Sep 28 09:33:14 I might try to go there and bash at the gates ;p Sep 28 09:33:36 There will be a strict door policy at some events at least. Sep 28 09:35:05 haha Sep 28 09:52:32 Morning, all Sep 28 09:52:38 mornin' Jaffa Sep 28 09:52:39 lo o/ Sep 28 10:06:35 morning jaffa \o is there a guidebook for council stuff btw Sep 28 10:08:39 anyone using native maemo, not chroot app., eboard for chess on n8x0 and get around it crashing? Sep 28 10:09:37 I can't finish a ten minute game on FICS without it crashing Sep 28 10:16:59 i wonder, do n900 support j2me? Sep 28 10:18:44 as far as I've understood, not without extra software at least... Sep 28 10:19:09 rmrfchik, might be able to use jalimo and microemulator, but it'd be slow Sep 28 10:19:29 Java is there for ARM now (well, still seems to be a prerelease). Sep 28 10:21:10 range, that's just j2se, not j2me, right? or is j2me out as well now? Sep 28 10:22:06 theres solutions that run on j2se that run j2me. but i'd be intrested if anyones really tried that stuff on maemo lately Sep 28 10:22:27 that's microemulator. I think it's supposed to be ungodly slow Sep 28 10:22:51 johnx: j2se, yeah. Sep 28 10:22:58 hmm. well. it's not really slow, no reason anyhow Sep 28 10:23:02 No idea how slow me on top of that is. Sep 28 10:23:21 basically just implementing the supporting classes is what they do Sep 28 10:23:30 glass, well, the guy who tried it said it was slow. that's all I'm going by Sep 28 10:34:57 I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power Sep 28 10:36:14 i have been abroad for the last 4-ish weeks so forgive me my ignorance if this has been covered in the past.. are there any plans for reduced-price community sale of the n900? Sep 28 10:36:26 not announced Sep 28 10:36:41 where are you in the world? Sep 28 10:37:05 In some parts subsidised phones through the secondary markert of mobile shops are becoming available Sep 28 10:37:35 .de Sep 28 10:37:49 Out of luck then :) Sep 28 10:37:57 I don't know about .de - uk certainly Sep 28 10:38:17 I haven't found it subsidized anywhere in .de yet. Sep 28 10:39:20 As I understand it, you could purchase it with a contract cancellable in a month for 392 pounds - not 499 from nokia Sep 28 10:39:24 in the UK Sep 28 10:39:53 cyberport.de has it for EUR 519 instead of EUR 599, but I wouldn't call that subsidized. Sep 28 10:39:53 I don't know if they ship to .de Sep 28 10:40:53 RichiH: are SIM-only data plans reasonably priced in germany Sep 28 10:41:24 What is a "SIM-only" data plan? Sep 28 10:43:08 In the UK, a data/voice plan without a phone costs approximately the same as one with a phone worth 100 quid (120 euro) Sep 28 10:43:18 This makes it not that great value. Sep 28 10:45:13 The secondary market - independant mobile phone shops can sign you up for a 12 month contract with a phone company, and get a kickback, some of which they can spend on reducing the cost of your phone. One of these is offering the n900, which makes it significantly cheaper than it would otherwise be. Sep 28 10:49:33 I'm not too sure if I understood that with my limited brain power I seem to have today Sep 28 10:50:22 apt-get upgrade Myrttis_brain Sep 28 10:51:22 SpeedEvil: I know of no "data plans only" which come with a phone. There are some coming with a USB device or with netbooks. Sep 28 10:51:29 E: Couldn't find package Myrttis_brain ;-) Sep 28 10:51:38 o_O yikes Sep 28 10:51:43 must have wrong repositories Sep 28 10:51:48 Or did I completely misunderstand that? Sep 28 10:51:58 range: i mean data/voice Sep 28 10:53:18 Ummm. Isn't that "just" a subsidized phone then? >:) Sep 28 10:54:24 range: yes - I'm trying to point out - and failing - that you cannot purchase a contract with SIM-only for the price of a contract with a phone - minus the price of the phone. Sep 28 10:56:36 drat, battery on my iRiver is really dead this time Sep 28 10:56:59 SpeedEvil: Which doesn't change the fact that I'm not seeing the n900 subsidized anywhere here in .de - not yet at least :) Sep 28 11:03:22 lardman, bleugh iriver Sep 28 11:03:35 replace it with an n900 Sep 28 11:04:20 yeah, but need to keep swapping mmc Sep 28 11:05:10 mmm how much music do you need! Sep 28 11:05:21 well I have 20Gb on my iRiver Sep 28 11:05:22 im having trouble filling 1gb, let along however much there is Sep 28 11:05:38 isnt it 32gb? Sep 28 11:05:49 yeah Sep 28 11:06:16 \o/ Sep 28 11:06:34 * lcuk fills it with the most impressive collection of bacon photographs ever Sep 28 11:06:55 32+16 on an mmc Sep 28 11:07:05 mmmm 48gb of bacon Sep 28 11:07:15 ok, will have to go get myself an N900 then Sep 28 11:07:22 that should keep me going till lunch Sep 28 11:10:17 ~lart GTK treeviews Sep 28 11:10:17 * infobot whips out a shotgun, trudges over to GTK treeviews, and goes postal Sep 28 11:10:24 and segfaults for that matter Sep 28 11:14:08 I wonder if christexaport will get it at some time that maemo doesn't rotate around him (Ha! I made a play on words!) Sep 28 11:14:39 gm ;) Sep 28 11:15:26 a few weeks/months back there was a big piece on gtk+ theming problems in connection to maemo somewhere Sep 28 11:15:30 anybody got a link to that? Sep 28 11:17:22 32+32 Sep 28 11:23:45 WTFJASODJA Sep 28 11:24:09 My wireless data provider charged me $1 per minute for voice calls made over Skype. Sep 28 11:24:41 What were you using for skype? Sep 28 11:24:46 omg zerojay Sep 28 11:25:33 charges specifically for skype? or data usage over your budget? Sep 28 11:25:54 if its specifically skype, what are the bastards doing sniffing your stream Sep 28 11:26:02 My data use is on a flex plan so if i go over a set limit, I'll be bumped up to the next highest tier without overage fees. Sep 28 11:26:18 So yes... they caught the fact that I was using skype and decided to make me pay for it. wtf. Sep 28 11:26:24 Did you use skype on N810? Sep 28 11:26:29 No. Sep 28 11:26:30 Yeah, Vodafone said they charge for VoIP Sep 28 11:26:41 and p2p Sep 28 11:26:54 It's the same fucking data though. Sep 28 11:26:55 My provider just decided not to charge for VoIP any more. Sep 28 11:27:10 zerojay, skype on a laptop? Sep 28 11:27:15 zerojay: Yeah, but you don't place calls with your phone company then :) Sep 28 11:27:22 'three' - in the UK have decided to offer skype calls free Sep 28 11:27:29 range: Yeah, easy to say that. Sep 28 11:27:31 no need to even buy internet data for them Sep 28 11:27:56 ShadowJK: No. Sep 28 11:27:57 g sysinternal Sep 28 11:27:59 SpeedEvil, you know skype on cellphones is crippled. It uses voice calls not VoIP Sep 28 11:28:15 ShadowJK: not as I understand it Sep 28 11:28:20 ShadowJK: Not true. Sep 28 11:28:55 zerojay: My provider here says that it is okay to VOIP via their data plan (well, you need a non-data plan anyway) ... Sep 28 11:29:13 http://www.three.co.uk/Internet_Services/Call_chat/Call_chat_service?content_aid=1220455597804 Sep 28 11:29:25 zerojay, so what skype client on what device did you use? :-) Sep 28 11:29:27 range: All providers should say it's okay. It's all the same fucking data! Sep 28 11:29:29 (on three/skype) Sep 28 11:29:40 ShadowJK: It doesn't matter. Sep 28 11:29:45 zerojay: Yeah, but they'll tell you that it cuts into their "business model". Sep 28 11:30:04 zerojay, yes it does, because some of them don't do VoIP Sep 28 11:30:12 Like I give a flying fuck about maintaining their high prices. Sep 28 11:30:21 ShadowJK: What I'm using does voip. Sep 28 11:30:41 So what is it? Sep 28 11:30:52 Skype?= Sep 28 11:31:10 range, there are like half a dozen different ones atleast.. Sep 28 11:31:16 Again, it doesn't matter. Sep 28 11:31:56 zerojay: They care. They're the phone company. :) Sep 28 11:32:16 And so you don't need to care, because they already do. Sep 28 11:32:30 zerojay: What would happen if you did that from your computer? Sep 28 11:32:44 The skype page seems to indicate you get free skype-skype with iphone when you have wifi coverage, presumably same deal with windows mobile. On other devices they recommend "Skype Lite" and say "Make a local call on your mobile or use your inclusive minutes to reach your contacts Skype-to-Skype" Sep 28 11:33:16 "inclusive minutes" implies it doesn't use VoIP :-) Sep 28 11:33:21 range: Absolultely nothing. Sep 28 11:33:28 hi Stskeeps, can bug 3858 be closed? Sep 28 11:35:07 * RST38h moos Sep 28 11:35:30 * lardman heads off for lunch Sep 28 11:36:32 If you use Fring, then it goes via fring's proprietary protocol to fring's server, and onwards from there to skype's system :-) Sep 28 11:36:35 afaiu Sep 28 11:39:06 http://www.skype.com/download/skype/skypelite/ check the "what does it cost" section Sep 28 11:40:58 I sure hope we get a proper Skype client on N900 Sep 28 11:41:22 Not a wifi-only like on iphone or data-only-for-IM like in skype lite :/ Sep 28 11:41:57 proper skype can have very high bandwidth charges Sep 28 11:42:01 is there no public info about that? Sep 28 11:42:18 the skype people would have to release a client Sep 28 11:42:28 it's not under the control of nokia Sep 28 11:42:46 Hi all Sep 28 11:42:52 http://www.mobile-ent.biz/news/34208/Nokia-World-09-Nokia-N900-offers-voice-calls-Skype-and-Google-Talk Sep 28 11:42:55 ^^ skype is built in Sep 28 11:43:10 I am thinking of getting some RESO FIXED "Fixed in Fremantle" t-shirts made. Sep 28 11:43:14 Who would want one? Sep 28 11:44:14 http://maemo.nokia.com/features/phone/ Sep 28 11:44:21 skype is mentioned there too Sep 28 11:47:15 dneary_, can we have "WONTFIX Harmattan"? :) Sep 28 11:47:40 ab: I'm only making the one Sep 28 11:48:37 RST38h, gotcha Sep 28 11:48:53 god javispedro you scare everyone when you do that Sep 28 11:49:12 did you check the last line of the asm routines you sent me? Sep 28 11:49:19 dneary, i would have a tshirt only if as part of it, the sleeve was still stitched up! Sep 28 11:49:29 you evil! Sep 28 11:49:44 lcuk: That's an idea, but I don't know if Zazzle would approve ;) Sep 28 11:49:50 heh Sep 28 11:50:17 ab, you can create your own community variation on the shirt after dave ships it to you Sep 28 11:51:04 are we having proper maemoorg t's as well dave Sep 28 11:52:32 lcuk, hopefully when Harmattan will be released, I'll make a "Withstood a Harmattan" Sep 28 11:53:19 bah, missed him again. no way I can scold him properly if he's missing. Sep 28 11:53:28 "The effect caused by the dust and sand stirred by these winds is known as the Harmattan haze, and costs airlines millions of dollars in cancelled and diverted flights each year." (Wikipedia) Sep 28 11:53:48 where abouts on the beaufort scale is a harmattan? is it higher up than a fremantle? Sep 28 11:54:07 javispedro, regular folks use email for that lol Sep 28 11:54:10 harmattan is more qute. Sep 28 11:54:19 calming relaxing? Sep 28 11:55:05 harmattan haze - it sounds like something that occurs after the maemo team goes out for curry Sep 28 11:55:07 well, going back to work. see you in the night shift. Sep 28 11:55:17 cya later javispedro \o Sep 28 12:00:47 for the Harmattan, here is a good narration: http://therandymon.com/content/view/157/59/ Sep 28 12:02:36 such a vivid description Sep 28 12:02:41 "As the rains taper off in late October a momentary pause ensues, as though the land is taking one last gasp of breath before passing underneath the wave, and then the Harmattan pours out of the north." Sep 28 12:03:54 thanks again ab :) Sep 28 12:04:00 why arent you active more often :P Sep 28 12:04:30 lcuk, you want to delay Harmattan then? :) Sep 28 12:04:40 lol Sep 28 12:04:48 actually im getting further down the page Sep 28 12:04:55 and it isnt quite so poetic Sep 28 12:06:07 "Blood rains were widely reported in Portugal and Spain in 1901." yep Sep 28 12:06:34 nahhh not that bit Sep 28 12:06:53 The harmattan brings illness as well, for the dust carries traces of everything humankind burns, dried fecal matter, and microbes of all sorts. On every side our friends suffer from respiratory infections, pink eye, and dry coughs. Sep 28 12:07:35 hi jeremiah \o Sep 28 12:07:47 lol @ i bet you are wondering what you walked into! Sep 28 12:08:09 heh Sep 28 12:08:11 see, why I was withstanding a Harmattan? :) Sep 28 12:08:28 :) Sep 28 12:08:30 ab - fair point, we need healthy coating of protection Sep 28 12:09:02 it started so nicely too :$ Sep 28 12:10:40 The idea of codenaming with winds is a good one Sep 28 12:10:45 as it is like a wind Sep 28 12:11:31 Using the names of the Devil is better though Sep 28 12:11:48 RST38h: Well, we already had one ;) Sep 28 12:12:44 Actually, yes =) Sep 28 12:13:24 Elephanta would be a nice name, but the poor thing has been aborted before birth =( Sep 28 12:15:58 Re-enable reset and/or reset-and-clear in osso-xterm: Status=>RESOLVED, Resolution=>FIXED Sep 28 12:16:30 * RST38h celebrates a small victory Sep 28 12:16:56 * lcuk Sep 28 12:17:24 What's reset-and-clear? Sep 28 12:17:34 Reset terminal and clear history Sep 28 12:29:44 what music are folks listening to atm Sep 28 12:30:24 http://www.on3-radio.de/#/ <- the radio studio is to the right of my desk :) Sep 28 12:30:34 nokia tune from someones phone nearby Sep 28 12:30:37 radio helsinki - playing kings of leon atm Sep 28 12:31:08 hi, I'm looking for someone from the maemo summit organisation, for a press related inquiry Sep 28 12:32:15 dneary, VDVsx Jaffa - question about the summit Sep 28 12:32:33 theres also nokia directly who you can contact Sep 28 12:33:34 armijn, is it something specific you *need* the very busy organisers for, or something perhaps the rest of the community could answer Sep 28 12:33:42 lcuk: Yes? Sep 28 12:33:50 armijn, not i Sep 28 12:34:07 I want to do a report for techworld.nl (part of IDG) Sep 28 12:34:54 so I was wondering what the possiblities are for attending as press (I know that the summit is fully booked) Sep 28 12:36:12 the summit wiki was not clear on that point Sep 28 12:36:15 armijn might be worth asking Quim from Nokia Sep 28 12:36:46 dneary you know more than us though - does this sort of request have to come through you guys or nokia Sep 28 12:37:27 Or dneary, who so easily was summoned by lcuk :-) Sep 28 12:37:41 lol Sep 28 12:37:51 armijn: Which publication? Sep 28 12:37:56 qgil and Peter have a VIP list for including press, AIUI Sep 28 12:37:58 dneary: techworld.nl, online Sep 28 12:38:10 lcuk: Quim (more generally Nokia) are managing everything to do with the location Sep 28 12:38:24 So qgil & Peter are indeed the people to talk to Sep 28 12:38:40 Also, Peter's handling the marketing, so is the guy to talk to about a press pass Sep 28 12:39:36 anybody offering money for a summit slot? :) Sep 28 12:40:04 yea, if people give me some money, ill sell your slot Sep 28 12:40:25 mpf, expansys has again postponed n900, to oct 22 :( Sep 28 12:40:29 * lcuk giggles Sep 28 12:40:48 * pupnik_ ponders this Sep 28 12:41:09 i have to vanish - ta guys - armijn you have your answer Sep 28 12:41:17 well, nokia shop representatives here have spoken about "week 44", which would bestarting oct 26 Sep 28 12:41:17 cu lcuk Sep 28 12:42:29 lcuk: thanks, much appreciated Sep 28 13:06:36 WAKE UP!!! Sep 28 13:06:42 now go back to sleep Sep 28 13:06:52 done Sep 28 13:07:58 * RST38h wakes up, smacks penguinbait with still bloody MMS documentation stack, then goes back to sleep Sep 28 13:08:34 (or should I use iA32 Architecture Software Developer's Manual?) Sep 28 13:15:46 mornin qwerty12, you are such a scamp Sep 28 13:16:36 Hi lcuk. Well, I'm not lying now, am I? :p Sep 28 13:16:51 lol no Sep 28 13:21:46 andre__: yes Sep 28 13:24:34 thanks Sep 28 13:45:46 hey, is N810 friendly towards running debconf stanzas during package postinst script? Sep 28 13:46:43 I would like to display a list from which a user can select his device (770,N8x0,N900) :) Sep 28 13:47:01 you can get that info from /proc ? Sep 28 13:47:16 LoCusF: The N8x0 has "fakedebconf" so, no, debconf isn't an option :) Sep 28 13:47:17 atleast as long as user is runnign standard kernel.. Sep 28 13:47:25 oh crap Sep 28 13:47:34 well gotta ditch that option Sep 28 13:47:36 things you need to know when moving code to gcc 4.3+! http://www.cyrius.com/journal/2007/05/10#gcc-4.3-include Sep 28 13:47:53 LoCusF: ShadowJK is right though: just read /proc/component_version Sep 28 13:48:02 qwerty12: ok Sep 28 13:48:51 ShadowJK: you mean a non-standard kernel Sep 28 13:49:50 whats the RX code for 770? Sep 28 13:50:26 LoCusF: SU-18 IIRC Sep 28 13:51:29 damn, there's no awk on N810 :) Sep 28 13:51:37 there is on mine Sep 28 13:51:57 tried cat /proc/component_versio | grep product | awk '{print $2}' Sep 28 13:53:36 that's a bad excuse for awk Sep 28 13:53:43 awk '/product/{print $2}' Sep 28 13:53:49 RX-44 Sep 28 13:53:57 awk '/product/{print $2}' /proc/comp... even Sep 28 13:54:59 Disponibilité: Date de sortie prévue pour le 29 oct. 09 Sep 28 13:55:05 * Corsac cries Sep 28 13:55:29 cat /proc/component_version | grep product | cut -d" " -f 6 Sep 28 13:55:34 that should do it :) Sep 28 13:55:40 cat /proc/component_version | perl -nle 'next unless /product/; print [split /\s+/]->[1]; last' Sep 28 13:56:03 wait Sep 28 13:56:04 I can do better Sep 28 13:56:15 perl -nle 'next unless /product/; print [split /\s+/]->[1]; last' only one process ftw Sep 28 13:56:25 lol Sep 28 14:05:28 qwerty: Do you know if drnoksnes uses frameskip? Sep 28 14:05:52 yes, manual or auto Sep 28 14:05:58 It has an option for doing so Sep 28 14:06:01 what is the default value? Sep 28 14:06:19 auto Sep 28 14:06:41 thanks =) Sep 28 14:07:22 can I use my current scratchbox for gregale development, I have the one with instruction for Maemo 4.1? Sep 28 14:08:31 hmm, start of U2's Zoo Station doesn't sound too hot with a2dp Sep 28 14:08:54 Lethal Bizzle sounds better than that on anything Sep 28 14:09:51 no. Sep 28 14:10:02 :) Sep 28 14:10:17 Sure? :p Sep 28 14:11:13 yeah pretty sure, I think that "file" was deleted by accident Sep 28 14:12:20 andre__: ping Sep 28 14:12:32 According to Wendy Northcutt, author of the Darwin Award books: "The Awards honor people who ensure the long-term survival of the human race by removing themselves from the gene pool in a sublimely idiotic fashion." Sep 28 14:12:49 Macer; Of course, but you missed the fine print Sep 28 14:12:50 have we just had the new awards? Sep 28 14:13:26 Macer: You can only become the FULL laureate if you remove yourself from the gene pool without killing yourself in the process Sep 28 14:13:27 lardman, pong Sep 28 14:13:35 * qwerty12 placed his bet on lardman Sep 28 14:13:56 andre__: re bug #3417, no, the DSP kernel is completely different in Fremantle Sep 28 14:14:05 so give it a WONTFIX Sep 28 14:14:10 ah. thanks a lot! Sep 28 14:14:13 np Sep 28 14:14:20 * andre__ cleaning up some older tickets today Sep 28 14:14:46 * lardman throws a mop Sep 28 14:15:17 hmm, N900 on Expansys for £499 with £30 worth of vouchers Sep 28 14:16:32 really? Sep 28 14:16:33 One 'Honorable Mention' (a man who attempted suicide by swallowing nitroglycerine pills, and then tried to detonate them by running into a wall) is noted to be in this category, despite being intentional and self-inflicted, which would normally disqualify the inductee.[7] Sep 28 14:16:45 lol Sep 28 14:16:50 nice Sep 28 14:17:07 surprising he didn't bleed out then, isn't nitroglycerine used for blood thinning? Sep 28 14:17:22 something heart related Sep 28 14:17:57 heh Sep 28 14:18:45 wow, I've never even heard the background track on this song until today Sep 28 14:19:47 Using a lighter to illuminate a fuel tank to make sure it contains nothing flammable (Brazil, 2003),[12] Sep 28 14:19:50 hahahhaa Sep 28 14:20:04 one way to know it's empty anyway ;) Sep 28 14:20:46 Crashing through a window and falling to one's death in trying to demonstrate that the window is unbreakable.[15] Sep 28 14:20:52 i remember that one Sep 28 14:21:17 the dude jumped into his highrise window because the window was supposed to be unbreakable Sep 28 14:21:29 and he wanted to show off to his friends Sep 28 14:21:33 remember the honourable mention of the chap who took off in a lawn chair w/ helium baloons attached? Sep 28 14:21:43 "In 2007, the winner was "The Enema Within", in which a man died of alcohol poisoning after having two 1.5 litre bottles (over 100 fluid ounces) of sherry inserted anally" Sep 28 14:21:44 Wasn't that a priest? Sep 28 14:21:56 nah that's walking on water Sep 28 14:21:59 ;) Sep 28 14:22:05 http://www.darwinawards.com/stupid/stupid1998-11.html Sep 28 14:22:15 One example is Lawnchair Larry, who attached helium filled weather balloons to a lawn chair and floated far above Long Beach, California, in July 1982. He reached an altitude of 16,000 feet and was later fined for crossing controlled airspace. Sep 28 14:22:30 hahaha Sep 28 14:22:45 Speaking of Darwin awards, apparently the majority of both Windows and Mac users support a closed app store ala the iPhone on their home machines. Sep 28 14:22:51 There was that priest that actually managed that Sep 28 14:22:53 i could only imagine what the jets were thinking Sep 28 14:23:08 (to kill themselves with balloons) Sep 28 14:23:09 when they were scrambled to stop that guy Sep 28 14:23:38 well Sep 28 14:23:50 you get sick if you bain altitude too quickly Sep 28 14:23:54 gain Sep 28 14:24:00 even if you are walking Sep 28 14:24:17 he wasn;t doing much though Sep 28 14:24:27 so altitude sickness ought to have less effect Sep 28 14:24:28 Walking at 16,000 feet is hard work. Sep 28 14:24:47 Or at least it is at 14,000. I don't think I've ever done it at 16,000. Sep 28 14:24:54 yeah Sep 28 14:25:00 In 2007, the winner was "The Enema Within", in which a man died of alcohol poisoning after having two 1.5 litre bottles (over 100 fluid ounces) of sherry inserted anally.[17][18] Sep 28 14:25:30 omg the shit people do Sep 28 14:25:50 well very alcoholic for him I imagine Sep 28 14:25:57 Meh, people are weird. Sep 28 14:26:02 Talking of which: Sep 28 14:26:11 * qwerty12 makes a note to watch Jackass: The movie Sep 28 14:26:22 [6~ Sep 28 14:26:32 those movies are stupid Sep 28 14:26:40 i just don't get them Sep 28 14:26:42 Most movies are stupid. Sep 28 14:27:07 What? People launching fireworks from their ass isn't stupid Sep 28 14:28:47 lol Sep 28 14:29:02 cky > jackass Sep 28 14:29:12 cky? Sep 28 14:29:43 cky is what sparked jackass Sep 28 14:29:59 camp kill yourself... bam margera, chris raab, etc etc Sep 28 14:30:21 Never heard of it. I'm saddened that such a show could ever last past 3 or so episodes, actually. Sep 28 14:31:46 it's pretty much what we used to do as teenagers with the first consumer cameras Sep 28 14:31:47 video Sep 28 14:35:53 i never shot fireworks out my ass as a teenager Sep 28 14:36:28 that was something yokel teens do because there is nothing better to do in population: 100 Sep 28 14:37:35 my friends did plenty of jackass style shit(even before it..). boring papermill town with lots of problems Sep 28 14:37:47 once they just went to the woods and cut down a random tree Sep 28 14:38:04 uhm Sep 28 14:38:12 decided afterwards that getting drunk is more fun than that Sep 28 14:38:31 some kids in my town hung a dummy from an highway overpass, driver ran off the road and was killed, how stupid can you be? Sep 28 14:38:37 thats why meth use is higher in small places Sep 28 14:38:45 glass: Have their tried ritually killing, then eating goths? =) Sep 28 14:38:59 RST38h: nah. that shit is only for st petersburg Sep 28 14:39:08 glass: And crucifying a hamster on an upside down cross? Sep 28 14:39:12 MaceN8x0: we stayed clear out of the meth circles Sep 28 14:39:14 penguinbait, hahaha Sep 28 14:39:38 if someone tried that here it would be chaos Sep 28 14:39:58 some girl was going to jump from a highway bridge downtown Sep 28 14:40:14 a while back and all traffic in chicago was 20x worse Sep 28 14:40:33 because like 5 major highways merge downtown and they closed them Sep 28 14:41:26 as ruthless as the people here are, if she jumped they would have found her 20 hrs later with 10,000 different tire marks on her body Sep 28 14:42:15 hmm, I need to launch some rockets, and not out of my ass Sep 28 14:42:29 MaceN8x0: Why stop at 10,000? +) Sep 28 14:42:30 not had enough sunny weather to get round to it though Sep 28 14:42:48 qwerty12, conservative estimate ;) Sep 28 14:43:22 the highway was a parking lot Sep 28 14:43:39 i'm suprised someone just didn't shoot her so they could go Sep 28 14:54:03 lardman, thinking of novel travel arrangements to the summit? Sep 28 14:55:12 well certainly novel immigration procedures if I bring some rockets in my hand luggage ;) Sep 28 14:56:20 with rockets in your hand luggage I don't think you'll even reach immigration... Sep 28 14:56:21 Be careful, you may find those rockets used against you by people who want to see *their* face on maemo.org Sep 28 14:56:38 i was thinking more of sitting ON the rocket Sep 28 14:56:38 lol, no chance, only 5 places remaining Sep 28 14:57:20 I am still there aren't I, :) Sep 28 14:57:22 Hmm, nice feature. Built in browser on my n95 crashes when i select the password box on talk.m.o Sep 28 14:57:35 careful aim and you could land nicely on the WesterGasFabriek roof Sep 28 14:57:50 lol Sep 28 14:57:59 yeah, but I'm in Berlin in the days beforehand Sep 28 14:58:12 bigger rocket pack! Sep 28 14:58:27 I could probably find something in a museum ;) Sep 28 14:59:20 two stage reusable rocket Sep 28 14:59:47 nerf guns Sep 28 14:59:56 potato cannon Sep 28 15:00:03 frals|m, try swithc off javascript... it works better that way for me Sep 28 15:00:05 are they the foam ones or emp ? Sep 28 15:00:07 lcuk's finger Sep 28 15:00:12 o_O Sep 28 15:00:25 keep my finger out of this discussion tyvm Sep 28 15:00:28 and anything else Sep 28 15:00:44 ShadowJK: i'll try that, thanks Sep 28 15:00:51 lcuk: Wow. You're obviously still sore about that Sep 28 15:01:27 scarred for life. i will never stick my fingers anywhere where they might get bitted off again Sep 28 15:01:38 bitten Sep 28 15:02:36 this time around the revolution will not be televised... Sep 28 15:02:37 ShadowJK: thanks, worked fine now :) Sep 28 15:02:53 jabascript is evil :) Sep 28 15:03:15 the editbox doesnt scroll anymore though ;) Sep 28 15:03:34 ShadowJK: is that Javascript's evil fat relative? Sep 28 15:04:04 with a sarlac underneath Sep 28 15:04:10 haha @ jabascript Sep 28 15:04:11 ah no wrong one Sep 28 15:04:19 The password box didn't star out my password either Sep 28 15:04:40 lardman: In that case, what relation is "javascript" to you? Sep 28 15:05:12 indeed :) Sep 28 15:07:11 the "normal" tmo page is heavy enough to be noticeable on core2, but the minimal theme has gigantic fonts making it unusable Sep 28 15:07:31 so i use normal without javascript Sep 28 15:09:05 Awesome, busdriver missed a stop where like half the bus were getting off Sep 28 15:09:46 A common occurrence here :) Sep 28 15:10:15 quite lucky he actually made it past the stop rather than just not turning up# Sep 28 15:10:38 :D Sep 28 15:15:05 Hours away from freedom. Sep 28 15:15:06 Ehehe Sep 28 15:15:36 you leaving the US? Sep 28 15:15:41 ;) Sep 28 15:15:59 He's leaving Florida Sep 28 15:16:22 isn't it the start of term? Sep 28 15:16:24 Leaving the council to new folks. :P Sep 28 15:16:25 certainly is here Sep 28 15:16:32 ah :) Sep 28 15:16:43 have the scores been counted? Sep 28 15:16:50 Not closed yet. Sep 28 15:16:54 Should be tonight or tomorrow morning. Sep 28 15:17:08 everyone scored round numbers of votes I presume Sep 28 15:17:28 I still can't believe I was eligble for vote :-D Sep 28 15:17:47 we tried to have you banned :p Sep 28 15:18:23 * lardman should probably go do something productive rather than insult everyone Sep 28 15:18:24 sorry all Sep 28 15:18:39 * Jaffa has just had his work eval. Feel free to insult me, since there was only one negative Sep 28 15:19:08 positive: attendance; negative: work while attending? Sep 28 15:19:26 * lardman blames too much caffeine Sep 28 15:19:51 i blame the economy Sep 28 15:20:21 * qwerty12 blames Jaffa for managing to suck, in both councils Sep 28 15:20:43 sometimes i still blame george bush Sep 28 15:20:52 seems fair :) Sep 28 15:21:00 sometimes i blame the economy on george bush, ok often Sep 28 15:21:05 qwerty12: When you're in Amsterdam, you can have as much as you want Sep 28 15:21:05 anyone got a handy link to some freemantle homescreen screenshots? Sep 28 15:21:18 Jaffa: he's not coming Sep 28 15:21:24 lardman: Noooooooooooooooooo Sep 28 15:21:25 fremantle* Sep 28 15:21:38 Jaffa: I reckon kidnapping Sep 28 15:22:17 I have a spare suitcase.... Sep 28 15:22:26 but you are flying by rocket Sep 28 15:22:54 no, Easyjet, so even a lightweight qwerty12 in-suitcase would cost more than a real ticket Sep 28 15:24:43 ShadowJK: I researched the tmo page Sep 28 15:24:49 god forbid he might want to go to the toilet too Sep 28 15:25:01 ShadowJK: You will be surprised with what adds the main bulk Sep 28 15:25:15 lcuk: yuck Sep 28 15:25:44 oh cripes speaking of suitcases Sep 28 15:25:46 no its ycuk Sep 28 15:25:50 * Myrtti loves Ryanair Sep 28 15:25:50 my main drag around one is knackered Sep 28 15:25:53 lcuk: he'll be in lardman's suitcase. No-one'd notice ;-p Sep 28 15:26:04 good point Sep 28 15:26:04 oi! Sep 28 15:26:15 my wife will be with me, so I should be reasonably clean Sep 28 15:26:22 Shoulda woulda coulda Sep 28 15:26:23 plus I have a meeting the day before, so may even be in a suit Sep 28 15:26:37 lardman, how are you gonna fit qwerty and holly in the same suitcase Sep 28 15:26:37 * Jaffa is getting a 6am flight from Birmingham. Not going to be in a suit. Sep 28 15:26:38 when I arrive at least Sep 28 15:26:42 and wont she complain about the smell Sep 28 15:26:51 yeah Sep 28 15:27:02 lardman: You wear suits to your AA meetings? Sep 28 15:27:14 its na Sep 28 15:27:15 more to the point there won't be room for qwerty in any case what with the shoes & handbags ;) Sep 28 15:27:27 qwerty12: nah, given those up Sep 28 15:27:35 only special ones to mark long term "on the wagon" - like 6 hours, 8 hours.. Sep 28 15:27:36 back off the wagon Sep 28 15:27:40 hey lcuk :D Sep 28 15:28:02 hey zakkm \o Sep 28 15:28:05 i hope you have voted Sep 28 15:28:07 * lardman flies to Berlin, then Berlin to Luton, then Luton to Amsterdam, great :$ Sep 28 15:28:11 since i havent seen you around Sep 28 15:32:23 mmm, crazy sours skittles Sep 28 15:33:18 mmm, crazy sour skets Sep 28 15:33:36 mmm bacon Sep 28 15:34:01 sket?! I thought you were an East-End boy, not from the Caribbean Sep 28 15:34:43 It's said by all 'round here... Sep 28 15:34:55 I see, I've learned a new word Sep 28 15:36:25 skat? Sep 28 15:37:59 hi Sep 28 15:38:31 hello Sep 28 15:38:38 hi woglinde Sep 28 15:39:09 Guten tag Sep 28 15:40:04 aeh qwerty do you now live in germany? Sep 28 15:40:24 Qwerty is a man of the world Sep 28 15:40:33 a man of mystery Sep 28 15:40:41 Nein Sep 28 15:40:56 hm amazing for his youth Sep 28 15:41:06 he drinks Dos Equis Sep 28 15:41:40 Qwerty12 IS the most interesting man in the world! Sep 28 15:41:52 German cops impound motorised beer crate Sep 28 15:41:56 penguinbait: You haven't met me IRL :p Sep 28 15:42:08 er übt, weil er in meinem Koffer besuchen konnte Sep 28 15:43:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2SSZA0CjdQ Sep 28 15:43:37 aeh??? Sep 28 15:43:49 the new joke is to speak german? Sep 28 15:43:52 stay thirsty my friends Sep 28 15:43:52 no Sep 28 15:44:20 I've got a meeting in Berlin, qwerty has no passport for the summit Sep 28 15:44:38 lardman when? Sep 28 15:44:42 we could drink a beer Sep 28 15:44:44 next week Sep 28 15:44:46 args got Sep 28 15:44:49 oh Sep 28 15:44:50 cool Sep 28 15:44:53 sure, sounds good Sep 28 15:45:16 which day? Sep 28 15:45:29 woglinde: take a crowbar with you. This is the first stage in lardman's ritual Sep 28 15:45:32 there from Sun night till Thursday Sep 28 15:45:53 qwerty12: I'll be on my best behaviour, my wife is with me Sep 28 15:45:56 (will it involve vacon?) Sep 28 15:45:58 bacon, shit Sep 28 15:46:05 anyway, what happened to you after I left London...?! Sep 28 15:46:10 qwerty kuhfuss? Sep 28 15:46:31 qwerty12: was it those nasty boys, lcuk and crashanddie_...? Sep 28 15:46:46 oi young un Sep 28 15:46:52 * lcuk clips u round earlobe Sep 28 15:46:58 ow! Sep 28 15:47:07 Take his bacon away! Sep 28 15:47:17 nooo! Sep 28 15:47:23 * lcuk gets out the juicer Sep 28 15:47:30 woglinde: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/Standard_Crowbar_Black.jpg (lardman is a homosexuell vergewaltiger) Sep 28 15:47:57 qwerty bah Sep 28 15:48:14 hm Sep 28 15:48:15 qwerty yes one german name for it is kuhfuss Sep 28 15:48:20 after brecheisen Sep 28 15:48:20 vergewaltiger? Sep 28 15:48:28 enibreche Sep 28 15:48:29 r Sep 28 15:48:29 he is going to seduce you with his wife, and when your not looking BAM Sep 28 15:48:30 when is the olympic selection? Sep 28 15:48:34 right up the arse Sep 28 15:48:38 args einbrecher he probably mean Sep 28 15:48:47 ah Sep 28 15:48:54 well no on all counts Sep 28 15:48:56 vergewaltiger is raping Sep 28 15:49:01 crashanddie_ im busy on that thursday night i believe Sep 28 15:49:15 hmm, never learned that word Sep 28 15:49:18 maybee you hit first and then rape Sep 28 15:49:34 woglinde: yes, vergewaltiger is what I meant :p Sep 28 15:49:34 but thats I am nobody whises Sep 28 15:49:37 oi, enough with the character assassination! Sep 28 15:49:39 args wishes Sep 28 15:49:49 * RST38h carefully checks tmo new threads Sep 28 15:50:07 All quiet now Sep 28 15:50:13 im kinda overwhelmed here on the MMS "project"; brainstorm discussion, talkthread and the wikipage where lcuk was kind enough to post the irclog, where should i summarize the irclog? all over? the wiki? Sep 28 15:50:38 MMS project? Sep 28 15:50:40 the wiki Sep 28 15:50:43 damn I should never show my son how to use a browser Sep 28 15:50:45 lcuk: Oh, yes - good point. Sep 28 15:50:47 discussion page Sep 28 15:50:52 args have showed Sep 28 15:50:59 or on the page itself Sep 28 15:51:13 woglinde: make sure you block www.lardmansgayconquests.co.ck Sep 28 15:51:42 now he looks roary and little red traktor on youtube Sep 28 15:52:12 how can I specify alternate dependency in debian/control? Sep 28 15:52:14 crashanddie_: would you mind killing qwerty12 next time you see him? Sep 28 15:52:25 no Sep 28 15:52:28 like (libhildon1|hildon-libs0), (libhildon1-dev|hildon-libs-dev) wont work Sep 28 15:52:28 qwerty is op now Sep 28 15:52:34 lardman I will do Sep 28 15:52:43 LoCusF hm why? Sep 28 15:52:48 LoCusF it should Sep 28 15:52:54 woglinde: good lad Sep 28 15:52:57 maybe the dpkg is to old in maemo Sep 28 15:53:24 lardman I will be in cambridge nov. 6,7,8 Sep 28 15:53:30 frals, all the links i spammed pointed into the wiki and its the best editable place without it become a 50 page marathon Sep 28 15:53:37 woglinde: on gregale so thats basically ancient history :) Sep 28 15:53:48 LoCusF uahaha thats stoneage Sep 28 15:54:02 thanks for havin a go btw :) Sep 28 15:54:14 *snerk* Sep 28 15:54:22 ugh Sep 28 15:54:36 waiting to see if we get the olympics Sep 28 15:54:37 lcuk: yeah, true, ill try to summarize it into a text later tonight, realised i got an assignment for a uni course i have to finish first :p Sep 28 15:54:38 heh Sep 28 15:54:58 it is a real nail biter Sep 28 15:55:28 woglinde: Nov? Oct next month Sep 28 15:55:40 lardman nov Sep 28 15:55:46 visiting oedem Sep 28 15:55:53 Ah, I live in Bath, other side of the country Sep 28 15:56:02 isn't it funny the jamacan runner who broke the record Sep 28 15:56:06 is named bolt? Sep 28 15:56:10 =) Sep 28 15:56:15 lardman ah I thought you were near london Sep 28 15:56:25 nah, that's qwerty12 Sep 28 15:56:31 ah okay Sep 28 15:56:32 * RST38h laughs at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32135 Sep 28 15:56:34 so I kill him Sep 28 15:56:43 he was going so fast that he broke stride before the finish line to talk shit Sep 28 15:56:46 and take his place? Sep 28 15:56:48 no thanks! Sep 28 15:56:50 no Sep 28 15:56:52 and still broke the record Sep 28 15:57:05 its nothing abort sith's Sep 28 15:57:09 woglinde: don't worry, lardman will find...ways..to thank you Sep 28 15:57:11 lol Sep 28 15:57:21 yeah beer & bacon Sep 28 15:57:25 Anyone here sharpish in maths? Sep 28 15:57:26 :p Sep 28 15:57:39 lardman: I was thinking more like a space on your website Sep 28 15:57:39 I can just about add up Sep 28 15:57:40 dneary ask Sep 28 15:57:43 I have a combinatorics problem I can't figure out Sep 28 15:58:09 fire away Sep 28 15:58:28 gaah, backwards compatibility is a bitch Sep 28 15:58:30 I have N containers, with x red beads and y blue beads, x + y < N Sep 28 15:58:45 hihi Sep 28 15:58:46 lpsolve Sep 28 15:58:53 see th examples Sep 28 15:58:54 RST38h: Seen the username of the person starting the topic? Sep 28 15:58:56 I distribute the red beads randomly in the containers (no more than one per container) Sep 28 15:59:03 and do the same with the blue beads Sep 28 15:59:22 What's the probability that at least one container will contain both a red & blue bead? Sep 28 15:59:44 I'd say x.y/N^2 Sep 28 15:59:47 args Sep 28 15:59:51 bob the builder Sep 28 16:00:01 So I think that's wrong :) Sep 28 16:00:11 qwerty: Heh. Sep 28 16:00:17 Let's say x = y = N/2 Sep 28 16:00:22 not sure but it will happen one day early Sep 28 16:00:28 That would give a probability of 1/4 Sep 28 16:00:35 qwerty: Imagine what will happen after N900 is released... Sep 28 16:00:43 when clearly the probability should be almost 1 Sep 28 16:00:43 yeah Sep 28 16:01:13 I'm thinking, let's place the blue beads Sep 28 16:01:14 qwerty: It is going to be almost as epic as AOL letting its users post to USENET Sep 28 16:01:23 RST38h: "OMG I CANT RUN SYMBIAN DIS SUCKS" "IZ DERE PS3 EMULATOR KTHXBYE" Sep 28 16:01:25 or is it one day late? Sep 28 16:01:26 We have N total containers, and N-x empty containers Sep 28 16:01:39 yep Sep 28 16:01:57 There are (N-x)Cy ways to distribute the blue beads with no conflict Sep 28 16:02:11 and NCy ways to distribute the beads in all Sep 28 16:02:51 So the probability of distributing them with no conflicts is the number of good ways / total number Sep 28 16:03:14 And then 1 - gives the prob of distributing them with at least 1 conflict Sep 28 16:03:36 The problem is that the result isn't symmetrical in x and y, when logically it must be Sep 28 16:03:48 dneary cant you use the counter prop? Sep 28 16:03:56 args prob Sep 28 16:04:19 We end up with (N-y)!(N-x-y)!/N!(N-x)! Sep 28 16:04:39 So I'm thinking that I have to include the number of ways I can place the x stones too Sep 28 16:05:01 NCx = N!/(N-x)! Sep 28 16:05:24 but I can't figure it out Sep 28 16:06:12 too late in the evening, and I never did probability work for my A-levels Sep 28 16:06:21 but I'll have a think about it Sep 28 16:06:28 if anyone wants to try the compcache modules on nokia 770, see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=335342&postcount=16 Sep 28 16:11:09 what is that LoCusF ? Sep 28 16:11:16 nice job with recordmydesktop btw! Sep 28 16:15:11 How do I delete a solution from the Brainstorm? Sep 28 16:16:32 770? Sep 28 16:16:33 wow Sep 28 16:17:03 wow Sep 28 16:17:12 no maemo 5 for n8x0?! Sep 28 16:17:15 well Sep 28 16:17:29 looks like the touchbooks are supposed to go out this week Sep 28 16:17:31 word Sep 28 16:17:46 wednesday they will charge and ship right after Sep 28 16:17:51 hope i get mine Sep 28 16:26:11 dneary: It's 1 - (N-x)!*(N-y)!/((N-x-y)!*N!) Sep 28 16:26:32 derf: Thanks! How'd you work it out? Sep 28 16:27:39 It doesn't matter which x get the red beads. So put them all at the front. Sep 28 16:28:26 Now, there's a (1-(y/n)) chance that the first container doesn't get a blue bead. Sep 28 16:28:54 And knowing that, then there's a (1-(y/(n-1)) the second container doesn't get a blue bead. Sep 28 16:28:59 *chance Sep 28 16:29:11 Etc. Sep 28 16:30:09 ok Sep 28 16:30:28 So, that's just a finite product. Sep 28 16:30:37 And you throw some algebra at it. Sep 28 16:30:54 sounds like someone is doing Professor Layton Sep 28 16:31:15 thank God, I can stop looking at combinatorics now Sep 28 16:31:22 hehe Sep 28 16:31:24 me too Sep 28 16:31:26 derf: Your formula doesn't quite work out if we have x = y = n/2 Sep 28 16:31:35 derf: Same as lardmans Sep 28 16:31:45 Try n=8, x = y = 4 Sep 28 16:31:53 mine is only the chance that a single bin has both in it Sep 28 16:32:07 Logically, there are only a few ways we can distribute the beads so that there are no clashes Sep 28 16:32:28 We can count them... 8C4 ways Sep 28 16:32:57 And there are 8C4x8C4 total ways to distribute Sep 28 16:33:11 So the probability should work out at 1/8C4 Sep 28 16:33:15 And, indeed, it does Sep 28 16:33:26 (or rather, 1 - 1/8C4) Sep 28 16:33:34 So never mind what I said then :) Sep 28 16:34:04 Anyway, if you want to know the particular algebra I found easy (which you may not)... Sep 28 16:35:10 If you rewrite the product as (-n+y)/(-n) * (-n+y+1)/(-n+1) * (-n+y+2)/(-n+2), etc. Sep 28 16:35:31 too much maths for this time of the evening ;) Sep 28 16:35:33 cu all later Sep 28 16:35:34 You get (-n+y)_x/(-n)_x, where (a)_n is the Pochhammer symbol. Sep 28 16:35:39 bye lardman Sep 28 16:36:36 The insides are negative, which is bad, so you factor them out to get (n-y-x+1)_x/(n-x+1)_x, which is just the same terms in the other order. Sep 28 16:37:13 And then you use the fact that (a)_n = (a+n-1)!/(a-1)! Sep 28 16:37:42 Anyway, lunctime. Later. Sep 28 16:37:52 bye derf Sep 28 16:42:23 Thanks derf Sep 28 16:42:33 <_berto_> javascript ... http://imgur.com/RzRcw.jpg Sep 28 16:43:00 Follow-up question: what is the expected number of cups containing both blue & red beads? Sep 28 16:44:54 when i try to run the sample gtk application using xephyr by ubuntu system gives an error http://pastebin.com/d41357af3 Sep 28 16:45:43 is timsamoff in here? Sep 28 16:45:51 that guy RULES he plays frisbee golf Sep 28 16:46:25 lol Sep 28 16:48:44 when i try to run the sample gtk application using xephyr by ubuntu system gives an error http://pastebin.com/d41357af3 Sep 28 16:48:54 can anyone help me out ? Sep 28 16:56:44 I am running ubuntu 9.04 Sep 28 16:57:34 [config/dbus] couldn't take over org.x.config: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied (Connection ":1.76" is not allowed to own the service "org.x.config.display2" due to security policies in the configuration file) Sep 28 16:57:41 run google to find a solution Sep 28 16:58:13 solution is: run as root. Sep 28 16:58:15 ;p Sep 28 16:58:24 hehe Sep 28 16:58:27 or get X which can work as user (w/o SUID root) Sep 28 16:58:33 until we have xserver 2.0 Sep 28 16:58:38 with KMS, that is possible Sep 28 16:58:40 nah, why. Sep 28 16:58:56 even 1.6 will do Sep 28 16:58:59 astorm kernel patches should be in Sep 28 16:59:07 but you need a driver that doesn't need kernel IOCTLs Sep 28 16:59:13 uh, MMIO and RAWIO Sep 28 16:59:15 but X isnt complete if I remeber correctly Sep 28 16:59:19 ? Sep 28 16:59:25 no. X supports running as user Sep 28 16:59:29 as long as the driver does Sep 28 17:00:01 the driver has to signalize that it doesn't need RAWIO or protected MMIO Sep 28 17:01:03 re Sep 28 17:01:09 re lardman Sep 28 17:01:28 and that it does probing itself (then do none) Sep 28 17:01:30 has all that maths gone yet? ;) Sep 28 17:01:46 or that it's KMS, then X does no probing at all Sep 28 17:01:58 but I couldn't launch my Radeon in user KMS yet. Sep 28 17:06:12 thanks Sep 28 17:12:27 so the current status for maemo sdk is beta2 unstable is that accurate? Sep 28 17:12:49 maemo 5 sdk I should have said Sep 28 17:15:29 penguinbait: final sdk not out yet Sep 28 17:15:59 is it just bug fixes left? Sep 28 17:17:09 hm Sep 28 17:20:01 oh why do you segfault gtk_tree_selection_select_iter(select,&iter); ? Sep 28 17:20:06 penguinbait: no clue Sep 28 17:20:13 The proverbe goes: Bugzilla is active, release imminent Sep 28 17:21:28 fijal: maybe a chance of expanding the set of python-implementable/non-battery-hungry apps on ARM linux gadgets? at least if it's not horribly memory-hungry... Sep 28 17:22:49 blah Sep 28 17:22:57 and anyway, considering what kind of niches Power and SPARC architectures are, ARM is much more widespread among "home hackers" ... Sep 28 17:23:06 arch, wrong channel. Sep 28 17:23:10 argh even Sep 28 17:29:00 I hate treeviews Sep 28 17:29:43 :/ Sep 28 17:32:12 VDVsx, im there a couple of hours after Sep 28 17:32:29 i doubt you fancy hanging around do you Sep 28 17:37:43 lcuk, what's your ETA ? Sep 28 17:38:51 wed 16.05 Sep 28 17:48:34 lardman, treeviews are a necessary evil Sep 28 17:48:39 its like having baddies in movies Sep 28 17:48:49 they don't play fair though Sep 28 17:49:05 never do Sep 28 17:49:19 I want to select the first element in the view Sep 28 17:49:27 in code Sep 28 17:49:30 and whats the problem Sep 28 17:49:36 and all I get is segfault-tasticness Sep 28 17:49:40 ouchy Sep 28 17:49:52 What you need for dealing with trees is clear! Sep 28 17:49:56 A lumberjack! Sep 28 17:50:00 indeed Sep 28 17:50:05 flat text everywhere Sep 28 17:50:06 :) Sep 28 17:50:41 Trains != fun. Sep 28 17:50:48 the next wonder if trying to work out why my db won't close cleanly Sep 28 17:50:53 lardman: You are using GtkTreeView in c? Sep 28 17:50:54 * lcuk missed his train to london Sep 28 17:51:05 Jaffa: I meant to ask you, what was that SSID for 1st class wifi access? Sep 28 17:51:11 fiferboy: yeah Sep 28 17:51:25 Do you have a pastebin of the code for selecting? Sep 28 17:51:39 sure, hang on a tick Sep 28 17:52:04 lardman: 'tmobile'. Same as standard. You have to find channel 11 AP MAC and force onnection to it. Sep 28 17:52:16 MAC changes on each train, tho' Sep 28 17:52:39 http://maemo.pastebin.com/m5252ba90 Sep 28 17:53:06 Jaffa: cool, thanks Sep 28 17:53:17 if(iter){...} Sep 28 17:53:26 as well Sep 28 17:53:50 that shouldn't be needed, plus gcc complains about comparing a struct to an int Sep 28 17:54:30 well that's my understanding of the reason the fn returns a gboolean anyway Sep 28 17:54:38 * lcuk sees in other examples Sep 28 17:54:49 i hate using things that might be null :'( Sep 28 17:55:32 lardman: you need to sit on the bank of tables at the end of coach E close to 1st class (seats 001-008) on a Virgin Pendolino Sep 28 17:55:34 how are you initializaing appdata->lists_store Sep 28 17:55:34 well that's presumably the problem, just not sure why it's so Sep 28 17:55:51 Jaffa: lol, ok, you've got it all sussed Sep 28 17:55:54 does it crash on the first call Sep 28 17:56:05 lcuk: yep Sep 28 17:56:17 then work backwards deffo - how is appdata->lists_store set Sep 28 17:56:23 I see "before", not after Sep 28 17:56:33 nah that's fine Sep 28 17:56:35 * Jaffa ponders pygtk coding on device, rather than sleep Sep 28 17:56:53 Jaffa: where are you? Sep 28 17:57:12 lardman: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m2d089d42 Sep 28 17:57:18 sleep, I think. Need to stay awakw for FlashForward on five tonight (sounds interesting) Sep 28 17:57:24 I'm not sure what your _TREE_VIEW_NAME_ is, though... Sep 28 17:57:26 lardman: Train Sep 28 17:57:30 its 1956 here and im pondering if i should sleep now, my body seems to think its a good idea :( Sep 28 17:57:58 o_O time traveller! Sep 28 17:58:05 It is 2009 here... Sep 28 17:58:13 thats a lot of lag Sep 28 17:58:18 fiferboy: I tried that before, same effect though Sep 28 17:58:23 will have another go though Sep 28 17:58:35 lardman: Is it just not selecting, or is it crashing? Sep 28 17:58:37 Jaffa: yeah looks like it might be good that Sep 28 17:58:42 segfault Sep 28 17:59:07 If that doesn't work, I'll go back to some of my code Sep 28 17:59:11 looks like gtk_tree_model_get_iter_first() is returning TRUE but not setting iter (I presume that might cause a segfault) Sep 28 17:59:16 I am pretty sure I have done that before Sep 28 17:59:18 ok, let me have a go Sep 28 17:59:31 GtkTreeIter iter Sep 28 17:59:35 right? Not *iter Sep 28 17:59:40 When you are declaring Sep 28 18:00:27 yep Sep 28 18:02:13 hmm, ok better Sep 28 18:02:16 but failed for some reason Sep 28 18:02:30 No segfualt, but no selection? Sep 28 18:02:33 didn't bring the program down mind you, so going the right way Sep 28 18:02:57 ah, the first arg should be the selection object? Sep 28 18:03:09 Yes Sep 28 18:03:24 GtkTreeSelection Sep 28 18:03:37 missed that bit of typing in my eagerness Sep 28 18:04:06 nope, segfault again Sep 28 18:04:38 http://maemo.pastebin.com/m7cfb8494 Sep 28 18:05:56 It is segfaulting between "before" and "after"? Sep 28 18:06:21 seems so Sep 28 18:06:41 pupnik: thanks :) Sep 28 18:06:47 Maybe in your on_list_view_changed function? Sep 28 18:06:52 supper beckons, bbiab Sep 28 18:12:00 damn @ tmo borkened Sep 28 18:27:20 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32164 Sep 28 18:29:03 * lcuk smiles Sep 28 18:29:56 * Myrtti is trying to write a blog entry, feeling too tired Sep 28 18:32:16 qwerty12_N810, FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Sep 28 18:32:39 what did qwerty do? Sep 28 18:32:40 Took yer time Sep 28 18:33:07 see the comment he left on that thread lol Sep 28 18:34:30 ignore the haters Sep 28 18:35:02 lcuk sux Sep 28 18:35:09 cox Sep 28 18:35:14 kids Sep 28 18:35:20 * Myrtti shakes head Sep 28 18:35:53 * Stskeeps wonders who gets into council Sep 28 18:36:01 Qwerty anyone ever tell you, you look like Mowgli from the jungle book cartoon... Sep 28 18:36:16 qwerty12_N810: cox sucks Sep 28 18:36:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ogQ0uge06o Sep 28 18:36:55 Stskeeps: No one. All the candidates have been replaced by yft-tall alien lizards. Sep 28 18:37:07 s/yft/6ft/ Sep 28 18:37:09 Jaffa meant: Stskeeps: No one. All the candidates have been replaced by 6ft-tall alien lizards. Sep 28 18:37:13 its a coup Sep 28 18:37:19 as long as they're Mer-friendly i'm fine :P Sep 28 18:37:25 No one will be able to tell. Sep 28 18:37:45 Stskeeps: If they're not, we'll revolt Sep 28 18:38:02 someone has to pay the bills ;p Sep 28 18:38:27 That "someone" would be you ;P Sep 28 18:39:20 * SpeedEvil for one welcomes our new yft overlords. Sep 28 18:39:44 * Jaffa blames the fn key Sep 28 18:40:03 * qwerty12_N810 blames Jaffa Sep 28 18:41:42 * fiferboy therefore, qwerty12_N810 blames the fn key. QED Sep 28 18:41:55 Bah Sep 28 18:43:59 hey Qwerty Texrat slapped you with a large trout! Sep 28 18:44:38 lol Sep 28 18:47:38 By the way, for any n900 users, wiicontrol is now in extras-devel - in case you want to test the snes emulator. Sep 28 18:48:03 konttori__: how's quake going? Sep 28 18:48:25 I forgot to check for the es1.1 today Sep 28 18:48:27 no time. Sep 28 18:49:50 * javispedro thinks about tv out and wiicontrol....... *drool* Sep 28 18:49:54 ouch! Sep 28 18:50:26 * SpeedEvil watches javispedro mentally accidentally smashing his TV with an out-of-control wii control. Sep 28 18:50:53 fortunately, I still don't have an n900 to smash ;) Sep 28 18:51:14 unfortunately, I still don't have an n900 to smash ;) Sep 28 18:51:22 touché Sep 28 18:51:24 Broadcast TV would be cool. Sep 28 18:51:36 Funnily enough, I know I'm gonna get more enjoyment out of the N900 with my Wii controller than I currently get with the Wii itself Sep 28 18:51:41 Though in practice, you'd really need to be able to do sigital TV. Sep 28 18:51:44 di Sep 28 18:52:12 DAB transmitter would also be cool. Sep 28 18:52:21 * javispedro sighs Sep 28 18:52:32 why osso-unlocked-blabla depends on skype-installer? Sep 28 18:53:30 * javispedro decides to leave skype alone Sep 28 18:56:42 tmo has lost all reasoning Sep 28 18:56:46 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32164 Sep 28 18:57:51 the sarcasm detectors are getting rusty I guess. Sep 28 18:58:25 qwerty, your upsetting people ;) Sep 28 18:58:34 javispedro: Na, they are just rotating. Sep 28 18:59:46 re Sep 28 18:59:51 they have all got tablet envy Sep 28 18:59:59 fiferboy: if I comment out the selection code then it doesn't segfault Sep 28 19:00:20 What happens when you manually change the selection through the GUI? Sep 28 19:00:21 so I was presuming it happens in there somewhere Sep 28 19:00:31 yeah works fine then Sep 28 19:00:44 on_list_view_changed is called, etc Sep 28 19:00:56 lardman, what time you arriving on thursday? Sep 28 19:01:09 perhaps my code is just weird, I have a dialog that won't close too Sep 28 19:01:14 crashanddie: let me check Sep 28 19:01:19 lardman: Okay. Try passing "select" (the GtkTreeSelection you create earlier on) to the function Sep 28 19:02:01 yeah, tvout really is going to be so nice with drnoksnes. Sep 28 19:02:08 crashanddie: 21.05 Sep 28 19:02:11 put that thing away Qwerty Sep 28 19:02:17 and wiicontrol. We just need to get also the 2nd controller up and running. Sep 28 19:02:25 fiferboy: ok Sep 28 19:02:26 penguinbait: :p Sep 28 19:03:01 konttori__: not on this release, but will add to TODO (not hard) Sep 28 19:03:14 crashanddie: where are you staying? Sep 28 19:03:23 javispedro: when do you upload the scaling version? I would like to use that when I make example video of wiicontrol+tvout+snes Sep 28 19:03:46 javispedro: also wiicontrol needs to add the 2nd controller support. Sep 28 19:04:15 that video is going to be pretty cool Sep 28 19:04:17 fiferboy: segfault still Sep 28 19:04:33 konttori__: hopefully, today (i decided to grab rst's scaler yesterday and thus the delay) Sep 28 19:04:33 lardman: I'll try to remember to look up how I did it tonight Sep 28 19:04:38 fiferboy: let me check that the view is for the correct data Sep 28 19:04:47 ah, sounds excellent! Sep 28 19:04:59 fiferboy: cool, would be interested to hear anything you have. Thanks for your help :) Sep 28 19:05:35 lardman: No problem. I struggled through tree views, tree models, selection models, sort models, list stores and all that a while ago Sep 28 19:06:07 glad I'm not alone! :) Sep 28 19:06:43 Did you find the tree view tutorial online? It is a bit out of date, but it helped immensely Sep 28 19:06:56 * qwerty12_N810 makes a mental note to only boo lcuk on IRC Sep 28 19:07:20 yeah, used that for the rest of the code, but this bit doesn't seem to want to play ball Sep 28 19:07:27 Ah Sep 28 19:07:32 qwerty12_N810: as GAN often says, we just need more emoticons per post Sep 28 19:07:33 though didn't come specifically from the tut in this case Sep 28 19:08:15 javispedro: Indeed :) Sep 28 19:09:19 * fiferboy waits for countdown-home to pass through the promoter before starting the shameless self-promotion Sep 28 19:09:54 anyone know if I can see the contents of an sqlite prepared statement (to try and work out why I can't close my db)? Sep 28 19:10:08 fiferboy: This the one with the final pimped up font & colour selector? Sep 28 19:11:07 qwerty12_N810: It has all the latest bells and whistles, although no simple colour selector interface yet Sep 28 19:11:12 It has the RGB sliders, though Sep 28 19:11:13 Hi ! Sep 28 19:11:27 fiferboy: Awesome :) Sep 28 19:11:36 Evening, Khertan Sep 28 19:11:41 And as a nice little easter egg, you can put the colour name (orange) into the #ff00ff box and have it appear as though by magic! Sep 28 19:11:48 * javispedro notices garage git is still broken Sep 28 19:11:48 hey Khertan Sep 28 19:11:52 Evening qwerty12_N810 Sep 28 19:11:55 hey lardman Sep 28 19:13:22 Is there know problem with moving in garage from svn to git ? Sep 28 19:13:28 no idea Sep 28 19:13:39 Khertan: garage git is broken for me Sep 28 19:13:39 as i ve tryed with pygtkeditor ... or a clean project msaber ... Sep 28 19:13:47 and the two fails Sep 28 19:13:53 hmm, why don't these docs say what the return value means I wonder....? http://www.sqlite.org/c3ref/close.html Sep 28 19:13:55 I've not been able to push for nearly a week Sep 28 19:14:04 and now ... i've only the svn vin admin Sep 28 19:14:08 That's what she said Sep 28 19:14:09 svn still works I can add Sep 28 19:14:31 ok ... so i do the migration the wrong day :) Sep 28 19:14:47 * javispedro participates in -developers thread about it Sep 28 19:16:18 http://www.sqlite.org/quickstart.html no error checking Sep 28 19:16:35 konttori__, Ping! Sep 28 19:16:40 pong Sep 28 19:17:29 where is icon for the program switcher kept? I don't see a place in diablo theme maker to change it? Sep 28 19:17:45 it's in the main template Sep 28 19:18:01 almost at the very right end of template Sep 28 19:18:01 didn't see it in the template Sep 28 19:18:05 ok Sep 28 19:18:18 you mean fremantle, right? Sep 28 19:18:34 konttori__, nope Diablo Sep 28 19:18:34 if diablo, then it's in a separate file. Sep 28 19:18:49 its not the the template didn't know if I could change the file by hand if you knew the location of the file Sep 28 19:18:49 there is icons template as a separate file. it's there Sep 28 19:19:01 I mean, there is a separate icon template file Sep 28 19:20:00 lardman, what time you arriving on thursday? Sep 28 19:20:13 21.05 Sep 28 19:20:26 where you staying? Sep 28 19:20:31 err, lemme check Sep 28 19:20:36 :) Sep 28 19:20:42 konttori__, only icons in template is menu, web, and contacts I want to change the little icon on bottom left of diablo screen Sep 28 19:20:57 lardman, Golden Tulip & Tulip Sep 28 19:21:05 hmm Sep 28 19:21:15 lardman, about 5 minute walk from the venue Sep 28 19:21:15 where's that in relation to the main hotel? Sep 28 19:21:19 oh ok Sep 28 19:21:29 well, I hope so, actually Sep 28 19:21:37 so you going to head into town that evening? Sep 28 19:21:51 dunno Sep 28 19:21:53 We'll head for the main hotel and check in/drop stuff off Sep 28 19:22:03 then see what happens I guess Sep 28 19:22:16 was supposed to be ~30min walk/10min on bus iirc Sep 28 19:22:17 ? Sep 28 19:23:14 lardman, you staying at the ibis center hotel? Sep 28 19:23:31 yep Sep 28 19:24:08 AndrewFBlack: oh, sorry, I have probably forgotten it. sorry Sep 28 19:24:32 any chance on gettingit add to the diablo version of theme maker? Sep 28 19:24:39 I hope you wont let that version die Sep 28 19:25:09 almost done with a diablo version of your fremantle theme and I need to change that to match Sep 28 19:25:10 lardman, we're 5 minutes apart taxi-wise Sep 28 19:25:19 cool Sep 28 19:25:22 lardman, http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Spaarndammerdijk+302,+1013+ZX+Amsterdam,+Netherlands+(Golden+Tulip+Amsterdam+Fashion)&daddr=Stationsplein+49,+1012+AB+Amsterdam,+Netherlands+(Hotel+ibis+Amsterdam+Centre)&hl=en&geocode=FclzHwMdu0pKACHUtZWXGro_BQ%3BCf9-h9md7QMEFXc_HwMdVrhKACH02nzDgphOug&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=52.234698,4.697409&sspn=0.363332,1.234589&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=14 Sep 28 19:25:24 umm... umm.... if you can add it to the icon template and tell me the name of the icon to extract and the coordinates to take (also exact size), then I'll add it Sep 28 19:25:40 I don't have a device to test it with atm Sep 28 19:26:22 crashanddie: nice Sep 28 19:26:45 lardman, wanna cab up? Sep 28 19:26:50 crashanddie: I don't know Amsterdam, but I guess you'll be better off coming into the middle, esp as there should be more people at our hotel Sep 28 19:26:52 lardman, I'll be a bit later than you guys Sep 28 19:27:01 from the airport you mean? Sep 28 19:27:08 aye Sep 28 19:27:27 konttori__, I'll let you know I'll have to dig through the default icons and find it Sep 28 19:27:29 I thought it was only like 10min on the train anyway? Sep 28 19:27:35 lardman, no ida Sep 28 19:27:37 idea Sep 28 19:27:45 i never train from airports, professional deformation I guess Sep 28 19:27:46 AndrewFBlack: thanks Sep 28 19:28:14 you know, you can just edit the icon-template.txt file which is in the layouts/XXX.zip file. Sep 28 19:28:41 tbh, if it's close, will probably head to the hotel and drop the bags & change out of suit Sep 28 19:28:55 yup Sep 28 19:29:13 anyone want to tackle a somewhat easy project for me. I need to menu plugins that have clear icons and do nothing when clicked. Sep 28 19:29:19 konttori__, ok thanks Sep 28 19:29:20 lardman, so we'll get to meet the lady? Sep 28 19:29:28 of course Sep 28 19:29:35 lardman, pure hotty? Sep 28 19:29:38 :D Sep 28 19:29:43 indeed :) Sep 28 19:29:52 not as lardy as me Sep 28 19:29:53 :D Sep 28 19:29:59 you're hardly lardy Sep 28 19:30:06 sorry Holly, didn't mean it! Sep 28 19:30:13 you're just a heroin junkie who takes shots during dinner Sep 28 19:30:33 nah it all comes from 1st year at uni - I could only cook Eggs & bacon Sep 28 19:30:41 using lard of course Sep 28 19:30:53 isn't bacon lard? Sep 28 19:31:03 lard is fat Sep 28 19:31:04 i know there's a difference in test Sep 28 19:31:10 and bacon isn't fat? Sep 28 19:31:32 no. Sep 28 19:31:39 Bacon has fat on. Sep 28 19:31:44 lard is pig fat, bacon is pig muscle + bit of fat Sep 28 19:32:03 we don't have the same definition of lard Sep 28 19:32:03 or lots if you go streaky, mmmm, making me hungry Sep 28 19:32:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lard Sep 28 19:32:21 lardman, waiting for dinner to get delivered Sep 28 19:32:32 what are you having? Sep 28 19:32:51 pizza? Sep 28 19:32:53 aaah Sep 28 19:32:56 there you go Sep 28 19:33:01 lard is pig fat, bacon is pig muscle + bit of fat // I'm with crashanddie on this one Sep 28 19:33:02 my french side betrayed my sorry ass Sep 28 19:33:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lardons Sep 28 19:33:18 first line: Not to be confused with lard. Sep 28 19:33:19 ah yes, lardons are good though Sep 28 19:33:36 hehe Sep 28 19:33:43 :) Sep 28 19:34:01 oh wait, I was thinking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larb Sep 28 19:34:06 but lardons is basically just bacon, just prepared slightly differently Sep 28 19:34:13 crashanddie: listen to your Dutch side next time, instead Sep 28 19:34:17 yeah, pre-chopped Sep 28 19:34:39 LiraNuna: sounds tasty Sep 28 19:34:51 lardman, Thai food is win Sep 28 19:34:59 qwerty12_N810, I'm trying to, but that one just keeps singing korn's version of creep but does a s/creep/weed/g Sep 28 19:35:04 not sure about this bit though! "which made of minced raw beef mixed with blood, bile and spices" Sep 28 19:35:16 Hmm...Nokia opened an official LJ community Sep 28 19:35:28 crashanddie: heh Sep 28 19:35:46 Ah, Tim finally gets a taste. Sep 28 19:35:49 bile is the word that's pretty wrong Sep 28 19:35:52 Bitter, eh? ;) Sep 28 19:35:57 green too Sep 28 19:36:08 hey GeneralAntilles Sep 28 19:36:14 Hi, lardman. Sep 28 19:36:25 when do the shackles finally get released then? Sep 28 19:36:32 when's the official announcement? Sep 28 19:36:36 http://www.practicallyedible.com/edible.nsf/pages/boudinvert Sep 28 19:36:47 Tonight or tomorrow Sep 28 19:36:55 Whenever Dave runs the numbers. Sep 28 19:37:04 best sausage ever Sep 28 19:37:16 hey GeneralAntilles Sep 28 19:37:21 whatup? Sep 28 19:37:33 mmm, sounds nice Sep 28 19:37:40 GeneralAntilles, when are you landing you covert wimp? Sep 28 19:38:02 crashanddie, actually, shit, I deleted that email didn't I. Sep 28 19:38:07 Hum, that's a problem. Sep 28 19:38:24 ... Sep 28 19:38:39 there's paranoia for ya mate Sep 28 19:38:47 Tried to set up a mail rule to remove notification messages more than 1 day old. Sep 28 19:38:47 P Sep 28 19:38:49 GeneralAntilles: that's why you should use my gitbackup script! Sep 28 19:39:01 gitbackup for email? Sep 28 19:39:06 Problem is, Mail.app defaults to ANY instead of ALL for matching. Sep 28 19:39:07 crashanddie: yeah, it works very nice :D Sep 28 19:39:09 GeneralAntilles: Use the power of the Council, while you still have it, to set the date to one of your choosing :p Sep 28 19:39:17 So it deleted all of the mail in my inbox more than 1 day old. :\ Sep 28 19:39:18 * crashanddie facepalms Sep 28 19:39:25 We have 2 hours in Luton from touchdown to take off, I do hope Easyjet manages to run on time Sep 28 19:39:33 GeneralAntilles, got confirmation number somewhere? Did you print anything? Sep 28 19:39:49 Sounds suspiciously like Valujet Sep 28 19:39:51 lardman: Easyjet? Time? Sep 28 19:40:02 qwerty12_N810, you've never flown, stfu Sep 28 19:40:06 crashanddie, I think I managed to salvage most of the stuff, but I'm not sure how to process it back into my mail db. Sep 28 19:40:09 crashanddie: unless I'm offline, my desktop PC always has a recent (within 1 minute) backup of my entire maildir Sep 28 19:40:12 * GeneralAntilles Spotlights. Sep 28 19:40:24 qwerty12_N810: yeah, who knows Sep 28 19:40:37 crashanddie: including history, in case of software error deleting stuff Sep 28 19:40:49 crashanddie: silence, bitch. Get back to humping your collection of dolls Sep 28 19:41:02 whoa there Sep 28 19:41:07 lardman, if you wanted to know what happened to Q, we didn't beat the shit out of the kid when we saw him, so know mister powerful thinks he can get away with murder Sep 28 19:41:07 heh Sep 28 19:41:20 Getting in at 7:05 Thursday morning. Sep 28 19:41:27 s/so know/so now/ Sep 28 19:41:28 crashanddie meant: lardman, if you wanted to know what happened to Q, we didn't beat the shit out of the kid when we saw him, so now mister powerful thinks he can get away with murder Sep 28 19:41:29 I may very well collapse of exhaustion before the weekend is over. Sep 28 19:41:45 swine flu? Sep 28 19:41:47 crashanddie: yeah, too much chat-back now, should have given him a hiding when we saw him.... Sep 28 19:41:53 lol, arriving red eyed and then straight to the party ;) Sep 28 19:42:07 GeneralAntilles: beer will keep you going Sep 28 19:42:10 GeneralAntilles, this is Amsterdam Sep 28 19:42:14 hey X-Fade Sep 28 19:42:18 lardman, unlikely. Sep 28 19:42:23 GeneralAntilles, I'll buy you some charlie to pull through ;) Sep 28 19:42:24 lardman, one beer and I'm on my face. Sep 28 19:42:30 we'll prop you upright and pour then Sep 28 19:42:35 ;) Sep 28 19:42:49 crashanddie: tell you work in London Sep 28 19:43:03 eh? Sep 28 19:43:24 * RST38h looks at X-fade with expectation Sep 28 19:43:26 he'll need a £50 note too Sep 28 19:43:28 btw, won a race today :D Sep 28 19:43:40 RST38h: Any day now.. Sep 28 19:43:51 one of the housemates bet I wouldn't be able to beat him with my bike -- versus him on the train Sep 28 19:44:02 crashanddie: you? Sep 28 19:44:04 X-Fade: I am ready to push stuff, last show stopping bug fixed 30 minutes ago Sep 28 19:44:11 easier to pick up bike to hit someone? Sep 28 19:44:11 qwerty12_N810, me, yes :) Sep 28 19:44:25 crashanddie: hehe, nice :p Sep 28 19:44:26 RST38h: Ok, let me see if I can at least setup extras-devel non-free for you tomorrow. Sep 28 19:44:28 Will need changing a few packaging scripts, but it is all cosmetic Sep 28 19:44:38 * GeneralAntilles is turning Tim Machine back on as soon as the SSD gets here. Sep 28 19:44:55 X-Fade: Meanwhile, fms.komkon.org/VGBA/ and look for "Maemo" there Sep 28 19:45:01 =) Sep 28 19:47:29 s/Tim/Time/ Sep 28 19:49:15 SSD? Sep 28 19:49:24 Solid State Disk (of Psion fame)? Sep 28 19:49:48 lcuk: hi Sep 28 19:51:17 lcuk: I've got javispedro's OpenGL ES app to compile, but it does *nothing* when I run it :(. I even stuck a printf at the start of main() but nothing happens Sep 28 19:52:20 then you didnt compile it right.. Sep 28 19:54:14 * lardman wonders how to expand his widgets Sep 28 19:54:34 feed 'em lard Sep 28 19:54:41 * Myrtti feels all warm and fuzzy Sep 28 19:55:02 * Stskeeps is happy to be home on his couch Sep 28 19:55:10 I mean if I have an hbox, how can I give one widget 2/3 of the width? Sep 28 19:55:11 lardman, 80GB Intel X25-m Gen 2. Sep 28 19:55:23 It's the Talk transition all over again. Sep 28 19:55:40 GeneralAntilles: I've got an X-25 E at work :) Sep 28 19:56:11 lcuk: but I get no warnings or link errors Sep 28 19:56:16 bobbyd_, I only wish I had $700 lying around for a HARD DRIVE. :D Sep 28 19:56:19 and it seems to output a valid executable Sep 28 19:56:35 GeneralAntilles: I didn't buy it, and it was for a specific purpose :) Sep 28 19:57:59 moo javis Sep 28 19:58:29 hiya Sep 28 19:59:03 javispedro: did you do anything special to build your OGLES example? Sep 28 19:59:10 bobbyd_: build? no. Sep 28 19:59:14 why you ask? Sep 28 20:00:18 when I run it, nothing happens, at all. I put a printf right at the start of main() and I get no output in the console. I've compiled a simple test program that does output text from printf, so I'm a bit confused as to why it's not working Sep 28 20:00:21 it's really weird Sep 28 20:00:34 are you on x86 I suppose Sep 28 20:00:45 game on! Sep 28 20:00:57 hi lcuk Sep 28 20:01:12 bobbyd_, when code wont run for me like that i rip everything out and start with hello world again Sep 28 20:01:14 hiya javispedro Sep 28 20:01:47 javispedro: do I need to be under the ARM target? Sep 28 20:01:54 bobbyd_: au the contraire Sep 28 20:02:29 ok Sep 28 20:02:37 bobbyd_: did you make sure your printf ended in \n ? Sep 28 20:02:46 let me try it again, I'll comment out everything apart from the printf. Sep 28 20:02:48 yep Sep 28 20:04:06 bobbyd_: there's no check for failing XOpenDisplay call. so it may crash at local variable initialization time if there's no X11 server available (no $DISPLAY) Sep 28 20:04:48 ok Sep 28 20:05:06 I'll have a look, I just wondered if there was anything obvious :) Sep 28 20:05:14 that "we love lcuk" thread needs bringing back to life every now and again Sep 28 20:05:19 its really made me smile :D Sep 28 20:05:19 (so if you're commeting anything to test be sure to comment Display *dpy = etc... Sep 28 20:05:21 ) Sep 28 20:05:27 heh Sep 28 20:05:28 ok Sep 28 20:05:36 * lcuk slaps qwerty12_N810 tho Sep 28 20:07:25 lcuk: didn't your mum tell you to respect all southerners? Sep 28 20:07:38 no, i believe she told me to slap them Sep 28 20:07:48 hey lcuk, better than this thread Sep 28 20:07:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28877 Sep 28 20:07:51 I see this south-north war is big stuff. Sep 28 20:07:53 ;) Sep 28 20:08:12 people love you, and wonder what happened to me? Sep 28 20:09:38 javispedro: yep, and we're winning Sep 28 20:09:43 lol Sep 28 20:10:04 you think you are winning, all the time we are on top Sep 28 20:10:17 * lcuk rises above the silly southerners ;) Sep 28 20:12:35 * javispedro ponders bumping drnoksnes to 1.2.0.. Sep 28 20:13:37 bloody nora! Sep 28 20:15:47 * javispedro hears about free karma and can't resist posting in lcuk's thread ;) Sep 28 20:16:10 gfi, ill thank anyone that wants to worship me \o/ Sep 28 20:16:26 anyway, its not my thread Sep 28 20:16:40 ( )o( ) Sep 28 20:16:45 * javispedro opens We hate lcuk!!! thread where qwerty12_N810 will thank everyone posting there Sep 28 20:16:46 lcuk: I worship you by calling you a whore. Now thank me. Sep 28 20:16:56 javispedro: yessir Sep 28 20:17:31 hmm, when ur on 3G, you got one voice and one data connection right? couldnt you get that to be dual data? Sep 28 20:17:34 qwerty12_N810 _really_ respects whores. Sep 28 20:17:40 <- 3g/gsm noob ;) Sep 28 20:17:57 GeneralAntilles: Yes, I do have the utmost respect for you Sep 28 20:18:24 frals, i dunno Sep 28 20:18:30 its just automatic mumbo jumbo Sep 28 20:19:16 qwerty12_N810 to placate some might be an idea to actually indicate in the initial posting of your that it was later sorted ;) Sep 28 20:20:26 lcuk: be thankful that they didn't realise it was just all a ploy for Thanks! and to boost the thread Sep 28 20:20:30 frals: I dunno about 3G, but I read somewhere that MMS requires an extra inet connection. Sep 28 20:20:45 ahhh well Sep 28 20:20:48 yeah it requires you to connect to a specific APN to get the MMS Sep 28 20:20:50 s/inet/net Sep 28 20:21:00 or rather, most operator requires that afaik Sep 28 20:21:10 frals: well, icd2 is supposed to be able to handle that :S Sep 28 20:21:45 Ok, AlmostTI works now Sep 28 20:21:47 (the nit internet connectivity daemon, in case you're wondering) Sep 28 20:22:32 yeah was looking at that yesterday, from what i gathered it required user confirmation when starting a new connection, which would be annoying when auto fetching an mms Sep 28 20:22:50 on the other hand im sure i dont have the whole picture and it can be circumvented somehow ;) Sep 28 20:23:02 i'd think you'd be able to set it no-confirm Sep 28 20:23:10 frals: not sure. apps can open wi-fi if a default if set Sep 28 20:23:33 considering we could have control of the plugin and thus be able to decide if "default is set", I'd guess we'd be able to bypass confirmation. Sep 28 20:23:39 wohey, committed revision 201 to our svn Sep 28 20:23:45 ye - but does that setting apply to just the one connection or systemwide.. Sep 28 20:23:53 ah good point javispedro Sep 28 20:24:53 holy smoke! Sep 28 20:25:05 AndrewFBlack has done a fremantle theme for diablo Sep 28 20:25:10 (either way, the mms not necessarily has to be managed by icd2, and you may have worse kernel problems to resolve) Sep 28 20:25:18 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=335567&postcount=1102 Sep 28 20:25:36 sweet zombie jesus! Sep 28 20:25:45 frals, javispedro make sure the important bits of your dialog goes onto the wiki page Sep 28 20:25:56 im working on that atm Sep 28 20:26:07 :D Sep 28 20:26:09 or well, kinda making a new page with it summarized and then linking back to the convo Sep 28 20:26:15 don't consider my word authoritave, it am not a icd2 dev ;) Sep 28 20:26:17 yeah perfect Sep 28 20:26:18 * ShadowJK doubts kernel issues Sep 28 20:26:43 well, sometimes I have to believe what Nokians say, else I would become insane. Sep 28 20:27:01 javispedro, your word is good as a counterpoint to a conversation, even if you dont know it exactly it helps to make the right sounds Sep 28 20:27:22 * lcuk talks over problems with tracy often Sep 28 20:27:30 she nods and mmms in the right places too :) Sep 28 20:28:15 :D Sep 28 20:29:33 frals: and apps can request for a certain IAP to be activated, thus mms apps could request the mms iap to be activated. Sep 28 20:35:56 geh, embarassing with 2 edits on the same page in a row... :p Sep 28 20:36:32 hopefully you'll get to something :) Sep 28 20:36:56 i don't personally need mms but it would such a great example of why maemo rocks. Sep 28 20:37:36 mms allows us to show off photos we have made with our devices :) Sep 28 20:37:56 to connect us with those we love Sep 28 20:37:58 at such a price, it would better allow me to show off those photos to martians. Sep 28 20:38:22 lol Sep 28 20:38:32 how much is roaming fee Sep 28 20:38:41 * qwerty12_N810 feels the same way about northerners Sep 28 20:38:58 (and then the mms adaptation server decides to resize your photo to 128x128 Sep 28 20:38:59 to mars? around a trillion euros. the usual 10% over normal fare. Sep 28 20:39:22 ShadowJK, its not the size that matters Sep 28 20:39:42 well lcuk, i'd say that at 128x128 size does matter a bit. Sep 28 20:39:53 your greatest photo ever gets converted to a damn icon. Sep 28 20:40:00 ive had lots of mms messages that made me smile Sep 28 20:40:12 ive had some that make me squint and turn the phone round too Sep 28 20:40:17 and others that make me cover it up Sep 28 20:40:22 but the idea is there Sep 28 20:42:54 javispedro, you also need to think Sep 28 20:43:06 I think a lot. sometimes. Sep 28 20:43:06 most folks dont have super high res phones Sep 28 20:43:31 phoey sdk is dead Sep 28 20:43:53 i thought leaving it near a bowl of water might encourage it back to life Sep 28 20:43:56 lcuk: even then. 128x128 is today's "big icon" size. it should die. Sep 28 20:44:15 I'd say VGA starts to be "enough". Sep 28 20:44:52 * lcuk levels with you Sep 28 20:45:03 there is one even bigger reason why we absolutely need MMS Sep 28 20:45:20 the fucking iphone folks will laugh at us. Sep 28 20:45:42 * lcuk gets a beer :D Sep 28 20:45:43 that's why I am saying Sep 28 20:45:48 that if mms is not in the base phone Sep 28 20:45:53 but the community gets a proper solution... Sep 28 20:45:57 tada! Sep 28 20:46:10 * lbt laughs at numbskulls using mms instead of email Sep 28 20:46:16 http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS_implementation Sep 28 20:46:20 tear it apart! Sep 28 20:46:24 * lbt has a brainwave Sep 28 20:46:55 I think the community should implement.... Sep 28 20:47:00 faxes Sep 28 20:47:06 faxes! what a great idea Sep 28 20:47:25 actually that would be a cool PUSH Sep 28 20:47:30 actually, I think i've sent more faxes than mms Sep 28 20:47:32 sits right alongside MMS Sep 28 20:47:43 frals, the Push N900 project includes a radio hack that receives an SMS, and processes and does things with it Sep 28 20:47:46 it should work Sep 28 20:48:09 shame we can't plug a printer in... Sep 28 20:48:10 lcuk: the issue is that I guess the mms notification is not an "std SMS". Sep 28 20:48:14 * lbt ducks Sep 28 20:49:26 javispedro, ok - but we are now "somewhere" instead of nowhere Sep 28 20:49:40 frals, thanks a lot for this Sep 28 20:49:54 dunno, but yes. getting the ball rolled is the hardest part. Sep 28 20:50:00 aSIMULAter, perhaps you and your gang might be the best people to attack the bottom section Sep 28 20:50:14 http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS_implementation Sep 28 20:50:22 np, im happy to help anyone i can :) Sep 28 20:50:31 * sp3000 wonders who the closed bug state in bugs.maemo is for Sep 28 20:52:13 bt Sep 28 20:52:24 frals: what "confirmation dialog" are you fearing? Sep 28 20:52:39 come to think of it, on diablo at least, icd only shows a confirmation dialog when flight mode is on. Sep 28 20:53:02 i guess thats from my days with a symbian device - have to allow apps to access the net, and then choose which one it should use Sep 28 20:53:31 but i saw smth in the icd2 that said something about user confirmation, i *think* Sep 28 20:54:00 lbt - wifi and bt printers exist Sep 28 20:54:35 yeah, but come on.... a thermal printer plugged into an N900 printing a fax.... Sep 28 20:54:35 frals: 4-253-203-192.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi) ha Sep 28 20:54:44 disch Sep 28 20:54:47 lbt agreed Sep 28 20:54:51 frals: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/icd2/group__dbus__api.html#g2d518bd08002c0a8a92c8ba00546360f Sep 28 20:54:53 but work with what we have :P Sep 28 20:55:08 alongside a notice "No MMS support though" Sep 28 20:55:17 "too naff" Sep 28 20:55:45 I see no mention of confirmation dialog, and there's none in diablo. Sep 28 20:56:01 yeah, i think i misread the documentation i found Sep 28 20:56:16 feel free to edit that out, looks bad on recent changes with only my name there.. :D Sep 28 20:56:23 either way, its bad form to disconnect qwerty12_N810's dodgy torrents Sep 28 20:56:39 im guessing lots dont have internet connected most of the time anyway Sep 28 20:56:40 * javispedro will edit, and thus remove his typos from the irc log ;) Sep 28 20:56:42 but just in case Sep 28 20:57:28 the only think I'm not sure about it's if icd2 really handles multiple active connections Sep 28 20:57:40 the api is designed to handle that Sep 28 20:58:01 the ui is not... Sep 28 20:58:02 hmm need to try if i get disconnected when receiving mms on my n95 Sep 28 20:58:30 frals: you're new here? do you have a n8x0? Sep 28 20:58:46 now to figure out how to query bugzilla to get a list of all users that have set a bug CLOSED so I can cc them to the bug requesting removing that state... Sep 28 20:59:00 yepp - im new, and no, no previous tablets, as a poor student i can justify a table along side my laptop, workstation and my phone - so the n900 is my dream device ;) Sep 28 20:59:25 frals: ah well, icd2 has not changed much from the one in n810, at least visibily. Sep 28 20:59:51 just checking to see if symbian can keep 2 connections alive over 3g as ive never thought about it before Sep 28 21:00:29 symbian actually can keep more than 2 connections alive and apps are allowed to select which one "to use". Sep 28 21:00:41 do you think i can enter "mms on n900" as a Push! N900project? Sep 28 21:00:43 however linux uses a more traditional approach Sep 28 21:01:16 therefore the kernel issues, unless you can get some nice solution like the ones you were discussing on the "Technical" page. Sep 28 21:01:59 Asd Sep 28 21:02:18 to be honest, I'd get it working with linus' standard networking tools before trying anything icd2 related. Sep 28 21:02:34 that worked fine, so guess it should be fine as long as one of the iptables or similar workarounds work ;) Sep 28 21:04:21 great Sep 28 21:04:54 frals, so you have no tablets at all? Sep 28 21:04:59 well, the computery kind Sep 28 21:05:04 nope Sep 28 21:05:34 doubly impressed then by your have a go attiture Sep 28 21:05:39 attitude Sep 28 21:05:48 hehe, thanks :) Sep 28 21:05:55 where abouts are you Sep 28 21:06:16 .se Sep 28 21:06:36 * lcuk shivers Sep 28 21:06:47 one of my friends from .fi just noted it started snowing for him Sep 28 21:07:01 how is it your way - chill setting in? Sep 28 21:07:01 really..no snow in helsinki Sep 28 21:07:16 about 3C here Sep 28 21:07:20 yeah he is in oulu - cant blame him really, it snows like 99.999999% of the year Sep 28 21:07:21 nah im in the capital of sweden so im not so far north Sep 28 21:07:27 but its pissing down outside atm Sep 28 21:07:35 frals: *Gulp*. The country with Nokia's rival: Ericsson? Sep 28 21:08:01 yeah, i guess ;) Sep 28 21:08:14 im half-finn thou, hence Nokia ;) Sep 28 21:08:20 Ericsson! Good grief. Sep 28 21:08:28 * qwerty12_N810 felt guilty showing his Sony Ericsson to Jussi... Sep 28 21:08:33 so i can get a volvo and a nokia without feeling bad with myself ;D Sep 28 21:08:33 haha Sep 28 21:09:01 qwerty12_N810: that's what the kids are calling it nowadays? Sep 28 21:09:04 hey guys Sep 28 21:09:08 lol mavhc Sep 28 21:09:10 do i remember seeing that hacked iphones had a non-official mms client when apple still did not allow it? Sep 28 21:09:10 hey Dantonic Sep 28 21:09:13 do any of you use festival on the N800? Sep 28 21:09:18 i actually got a p1i here - but after a day i put it on the shelf again and went back to my trusty n95 Sep 28 21:09:20 or N810? Sep 28 21:09:28 javispedro: yeah, there was 3rd party apps for mms Sep 28 21:09:28 whats festival? Sep 28 21:09:37 the text to speech program Sep 28 21:09:40 mavhc: Nah, the research stuff in Sweden is still done under the Ericsson name Sep 28 21:09:44 the finnish swedish love hate relationship is an interesting one Sep 28 21:10:04 its like the north south love hate relationship Sep 28 21:10:05 ah, another north south war. Sep 28 21:10:08 i love to hate qwerty Sep 28 21:10:10 frals: ugh. I hate that phone, had one for a while :/ Sep 28 21:10:11 :P) Sep 28 21:10:31 i love the actual design of the hardware, but god the software is awful Sep 28 21:10:43 Dantonic, which core lib does it use Sep 28 21:10:58 or is festival the text->speech converter itself Sep 28 21:11:15 * lcuk cant remember what the Push! N900 speak n spell used Sep 28 21:12:21 Obviously not a northern lib - they wanted people to able to actually understand it Sep 28 21:13:00 lcuk, I just installed the "festival-multi" package from the repositories Sep 28 21:13:05 idk what lib it is Sep 28 21:14:12 lol Sep 28 21:14:16 it might just be festival Sep 28 21:14:18 does it work Sep 28 21:14:50 ooops i didnt thank Yodude for his post Sep 28 21:14:58 should it leave him all alone :P ? :D Sep 28 21:15:24 lcuk, festival Sep 28 21:15:45 ok VDVsx thanks :) Sep 28 21:16:24 * lcuk pastes twitter page - any ppl i havent added yet? http://twitter.com/lcuk Sep 28 21:17:12 lcuk, however the Push guys called it other name, let me check (but is festival :P) Sep 28 21:17:25 that might be where im remembering wrong Sep 28 21:18:35 well, this just makes no sense, if I link the program with the EGL libs I get no output from printf, and I get this if I run it under GDB: Program exited with code 0377. Sep 28 21:18:48 lcuk, flite, festival light ? Sep 28 21:19:07 maybe Sep 28 21:19:09 sounds right Sep 28 21:19:18 bobbyd_: strace it and paste to pastebin Sep 28 21:19:22 VDVsx: yes, that's right Sep 28 21:19:23 Dantonic, does it work anyway Sep 28 21:20:35 yes flite is festival light... Sep 28 21:20:39 well I got it to speak Sep 28 21:21:12 all the man pages talk about commands like festival option "text here" Sep 28 21:21:17 but I guess this still uses "flite" as command Sep 28 21:21:18 idk Sep 28 21:21:32 so from command prompt it's flite -i "text" Sep 28 21:21:39 -i for interactive Sep 28 21:22:04 now I'm trying johnx's hack see if it works Sep 28 21:22:14 johnx Sep 28 21:22:49 javispedro: http://pastebin.com/m687157b6 Sep 28 21:23:14 that's just for Hello World linked with X and GLES libs Sep 28 21:23:54 what is the osso-statusbar-cpu? Sep 28 21:24:22 Dantonic: CPU frequency? Sep 28 21:25:05 cpu meter Sep 28 21:25:12 with ability to take photos afiak Sep 28 21:25:20 is it in repositories? Sep 28 21:25:26 http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=5214 :D Sep 28 21:25:27 yes Sep 28 21:25:29 i believe so Sep 28 21:26:08 bobbyd_,install libgl-dev Sep 28 21:26:51 on my host machine? Sep 28 21:26:58 no, on sbox target. Sep 28 21:27:03 ok Sep 28 21:27:11 it seems the emu library requires the libGl.so symling Sep 28 21:27:29 s/symling/symlink *sigh* Sep 28 21:27:54 where go you read that? I'm not used to reading strace output... Sep 28 21:28:07 line 236 open("/usr/lib/libGL.so", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) Sep 28 21:28:17 ahh ok Sep 28 21:28:55 (and the fact I have a strace of a correct execution helps ;P ) Sep 28 21:40:05 damn cant find the package osso-statusbar-cpu Sep 28 21:40:28 johnx, ! Sep 28 21:40:40 help! :P Sep 28 21:40:49 rescue me! Sep 28 21:41:09 http://shop.nokia.co.uk/nokia-uk/product.aspx?sku=3983725&culture=en-GB Sep 28 21:41:23 * SpeedEvil hadn't seen this dort of phone before from nokia Sep 28 21:42:26 saw something similiar (maybe that) when i was in the helsinki flagship store this summer, lots of looks, less features ;) Sep 28 21:49:22 ah, reply to the mms thread *throws himself on it* Sep 28 21:58:36 should fakeroot work to restart things like networking in scratchbox? When I run fakeroot /etc/init.d/networking restart I get permission denied Sep 28 21:58:48 fr some reason it can't resolve hostnames Sep 28 21:59:14 bobbyd_: ah, that problem is rather common these days, dunno why. Sep 28 21:59:21 bobbyd_: did you got the ogles sample running? Sep 28 22:00:04 javispedro: no because I can't get the flipping package, can't find it in the repro through the web either Sep 28 22:00:15 "flipping package"? Sep 28 22:01:00 javispedro: libgl-dev Sep 28 22:01:37 networking isn't working under scratchbox Sep 28 22:01:37 according to my apt, it comes from fremantle/sdk/free Sep 28 22:02:30 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libg/ Sep 28 22:02:32 does Ubuntu 9.04 and Xephyr have any problem ? Sep 28 22:02:41 bobbyd_: not extras-devel. Sep 28 22:02:47 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_free_i386/libgl-dev/7.1~RC3-0maemo1-recomp1 Sep 28 22:02:55 there you have. Sep 28 22:03:02 doh! Sep 28 22:05:16 tush726: none that I noticed running it in VirtualBox Sep 28 22:06:04 okay i have a native installation Sep 28 22:06:17 Xephyr is giving me problems Sep 28 22:06:38 what's it doing? Sep 28 22:08:16 dix] Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list! Sep 28 22:08:17 unrecognised device identifier! Sep 28 22:08:23 getting this error Sep 28 22:08:55 the font path part prolly doesn't matter, X tends to throw those around Sep 28 22:09:10 the second line sounds a bit more grave Sep 28 22:09:43 libxpat or libxml, what do you reckon for parsing html (for webscraping)? Sep 28 22:09:52 oops Sep 28 22:09:58 the git issue is fixed! Sep 28 22:10:00 libexpat or libxml2 even Sep 28 22:10:11 let the commits flow in! Sep 28 22:10:15 earlier was getting a different error Sep 28 22:10:21 tush726: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/48973 Sep 28 22:10:41 doesn't really solve the prob, but it's the same situation Sep 28 22:11:10 * igagis encountered a problem of Gtk::Dialog::get_action_area() returning null 8-S Sep 28 22:11:24 okay Sep 28 22:11:30 javispedro: working :) Sep 28 22:11:43 bobbyd_, :) Sep 28 22:12:07 ok tomorrow I start for real Sep 28 22:12:10 thanks Sep 28 22:12:14 *g* Sep 28 22:12:18 igagis, urg Sep 28 22:12:25 woglinde, :D Sep 28 22:12:28 tush726: is there anything else that might be useful in the output? Sep 28 22:12:37 nice, you posted it on the mailing list as well lcuk, i knew i forgot something! ;) Sep 28 22:12:44 so latest one piece epsiode watched Sep 28 22:12:53 bobbyd_: nice, hope we see your project soon :) Sep 28 22:13:07 nope earlier was getting an org.x.lib ... something Sep 28 22:13:13 lol frals Sep 28 22:13:16 fixed it by making changes to dbus.conf Sep 28 22:13:23 bye Sep 28 22:13:24 yeah i made sure it was in as many visible places as possible :) Sep 28 22:13:29 cy bobbyd_ Sep 28 22:13:46 hmh... I wonder what it's complaining about then. Sep 28 22:13:50 something like that that lots of people can feel happy getting involved in (people love solving solvable problems) is great Sep 28 22:14:15 ye :) Sep 28 22:15:08 el-cock? Sep 28 22:15:14 * lcuk slaps u Sep 28 22:15:24 i just edited it to clarify! Sep 28 22:15:28 its my finnish heritage i tell you! Sep 28 22:16:04 does anyone know where or whom can I ask about Gtk::Dialog::get_action_area() returning null on Fremantle? Possibly, submit a bug? I did not find where to file bugs on maemomm project page 8-S Sep 28 22:16:52 what is it meant to return Sep 28 22:17:08 (i couldnt resist after qole's el-cuck ;)) Sep 28 22:17:28 lcuk: it mean to return a pointer to HButtonBox object Sep 28 22:17:44 lcuk: i.e. the button area of a dialog box Sep 28 22:19:37 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=335545&postcount=112 that post was pretty good Sep 28 22:19:56 bollocks... I was just checking the arrival times - the travel agent booked my arrival flight on the wednesday! Sep 28 22:20:02 igagis, in py or c Sep 28 22:20:25 lcuk: in C++ Sep 28 22:21:35 if you are sure its a bug, go check the bugtracker and if no1 else, file away Sep 28 22:22:52 lcuk: I'm not sure it is a bug, possibly it is just some pecularity of Fremantle, but I'm not sure... anyway on the maemomm project garage page I do not see how to submit a bug Sep 28 22:23:16 lcuk: do you know other place where I can search for existing bugs or submit a new one against maemomm? Sep 28 22:23:45 https://bugs.maemo.org/ Sep 28 22:23:46 try there Sep 28 22:23:53 and follow back upstream if not Sep 28 22:23:59 but you look like you looked there already Sep 28 22:24:11 lcuk: ok, thank you, I have not looked there yet :-) Sep 28 22:24:42 check ur implementation tho first Sep 28 22:24:55 dialogs did change for fremantle Sep 28 22:25:37 verizon needs n900s :\ Sep 28 22:28:55 has voting finished yet? Sep 28 22:30:17 oh Sep 28 22:30:36 results tonight? Sep 28 22:31:12 javispedro, i dunno Sep 28 22:31:21 just wanted to make sure everyone that can vote, has Sep 28 22:31:29 by my count, theres 29minutes left Sep 28 22:31:58 Ah, Visor's working again. Sep 28 22:36:39 Visors? Sep 28 22:37:14 Quake-style terminal. Sep 28 22:37:29 uh Sep 28 22:37:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvbE9UX_0GY&feature=related Sep 28 22:37:48 http://visor.binaryage.com/ Sep 28 22:38:00 heh Sep 28 22:38:06 eureka is great Sep 28 22:38:07 a Sep 28 22:38:18 Quake-style as in "rolls from top of screen" :P Sep 28 22:38:29 Right Sep 28 22:38:50 i'm installing xp over my debian box Sep 28 22:41:06 the "i love el-cock" thread is pretty funny Sep 28 22:41:11 the deputy is so hot Sep 28 22:41:52 lcuk: you promising bacon to anyone with a spare vote? Sep 28 22:42:05 no Sep 28 22:42:09 dogs don't know its not bacon Sep 28 22:42:25 hey elsie Sep 28 22:42:26 heh Sep 28 22:43:20 alison used to be hot til she got pregnant in real life heh Sep 28 22:43:38 lol penguinbait Sep 28 22:43:48 ;) Sep 28 22:43:59 goin through all this trouble just to watch videos with my mce remote and mediaportal Sep 28 22:47:16 oh great, Downloads app creator failed to complete and now I have a half filled out downloads page... where's the edit button Sep 28 22:48:05 hidden in the midgard toolbar Sep 28 22:49:08 ah, hmm, edited, but I won't show up as the author :o Sep 28 22:49:24 oh, username Sep 28 22:52:25 * lardman finds some potentially useful html parsing docs, but too tired to be bothered today Sep 28 22:53:47 lardman, tis a tough problem, if you find something decent that handles tagsoup and gives back a dom let me know Sep 28 22:53:55 cos i would love to try rendeirng that in liq* :) Sep 28 22:54:17 It's simple. Sep 28 22:54:20 You split on < Sep 28 22:54:28 there's an example source code on the libcurl page which shows the use of libcurl + libxml2 Sep 28 22:54:32 lcuk, there is still another housr left to vote, right? Sep 28 22:54:35 then realise it's much harder than you first thought and take up drinking. Sep 28 22:54:46 is there Sep 28 22:54:54 i get confused with clocks Sep 28 22:54:59 mine says 23:54 Sep 28 22:55:06 http://curl.haxx.se/cvs.cgi/curl/docs/examples/htmltitle.cc?revision=1.5&view=co Sep 28 22:55:08 or dump DOM and go mental over MMS and WAP, I heard asylums are nice this time of the year Sep 28 22:55:19 it is 10:54 UTC right now Sep 28 22:55:25 see Sep 28 22:55:27 confusing Sep 28 22:55:41 blah Sep 28 22:55:46 * lcuk is from manchester - i have nighttime and fog Sep 28 22:56:01 you were just trying to disenfranchise those last minute penguinbait voters ;) Sep 28 22:56:37 ill wear a sandiwch board tellin ppl to vote for penguinbait for the next hour if you like Sep 28 22:56:44 tho i think the cats have already used their votes Sep 28 22:57:21 no sandwich boards necessary Sep 28 22:57:37 unless its advertising your new movie "El Cock" Sep 28 22:57:51 new porn name Sep 28 22:57:55 lol Sep 28 22:57:56 :D Sep 28 22:58:44 i need to go flash my doofer Sep 28 22:59:00 about fell on the floor Sep 28 22:59:04 "doofer" Sep 28 22:59:06 heh Sep 28 22:59:19 errr sdk Sep 28 23:00:56 i feel bad tho, i know ill have lost code Sep 28 23:01:06 penguinbait, UTC isn't in 12-hour. <_< Sep 28 23:01:42 sorry GA, is there not 1 hour left, or are you saying there is 13? Sep 28 23:02:03 ~58 minutes Sep 28 23:02:31 OK, so I was mis-stating but my time was correct Sep 28 23:03:34 night night chaps, cu all on the morrow Sep 28 23:04:57 GeneralAntilles, are you just rushing through last minute laws and stuff Sep 28 23:05:07 btw, i hope the council gets a book about what to do Sep 28 23:05:12 qole should be the one making it Sep 28 23:05:19 he had enough heartache first time Sep 28 23:05:33 flashed now Sep 28 23:05:35 * lcuk gulps Sep 28 23:07:08 ugh Sep 28 23:07:17 shuttle's website is so damn slow Sep 28 23:07:39 i have to download drivers and the crappy site is taking forever Sep 28 23:07:45 ditto elsie! Sep 28 23:08:07 you flashed your doofer Sep 28 23:08:33 sm bus controller? Sep 28 23:08:38 wtf? Sep 28 23:09:16 sorry, ditto to the "hoping for a book" not for flashing my doofer Sep 28 23:09:31 they top out downloads at 70K/s Sep 28 23:09:32 I wanted to be clear Sep 28 23:09:33 lcuk, feel free to harass Jaffa if you have questions. :D Sep 28 23:11:09 :O Sep 28 23:11:11 i flashed Sep 28 23:11:16 and my doofer works Sep 28 23:11:27 and its still got all the good stuff inside it Sep 28 23:11:29 Good job, doofus. Sep 28 23:13:51 * lcuk will make sure to stuff general in an uncomfortable position Sep 28 23:15:08 just stay away from his doofer Sep 28 23:15:48 that would imply it was big enough to find ;) Sep 28 23:17:59 http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_UTC.aspx Sep 28 23:18:00 doofer? Sep 28 23:18:14 GA its crap like this that confuses people Sep 28 23:19:01 What's confusing? Sep 28 23:19:05 that's why ms should just make winmob for nxxx Sep 28 23:19:14 that website Sep 28 23:19:22 no more open crapware Sep 28 23:19:35 it says 11:19PM UTC Sep 28 23:19:45 penguinbait, Microsoft makes things confusing by "simplifying" them too. Sep 28 23:20:02 No, it says "The current time in (UTC/GMT) is 11:20 PM" Sep 28 23:20:15 Which is not the same thing as 11:20 PM UTC Sep 28 23:20:20 be pacific Sep 28 23:21:01 well no there is no 11:20 PM UTC Sep 28 23:21:10 its 23:20 UTC Sep 28 23:21:37 its 11:20 PM GMT Sep 28 23:22:00 GMT doesn't exist anymore. Sep 28 23:22:08 wow. new intel drivers are allowing xp to detect my monitor properly Sep 28 23:22:30 it is like a 1400x1050 monitor Sep 28 23:22:33 what an odd res Sep 28 23:22:48 what is a doofer elsie? Sep 28 23:23:02 kind of scared I asked Sep 28 23:24:04 lcuk : what is a doofer? Sep 28 23:24:35 my doofer is the thing i had to flash earlier Sep 28 23:24:39 its very very important Sep 28 23:25:19 who did you flash it at? Sep 28 23:25:22 heh Sep 28 23:25:32 man i hope ai sends out my touchbook Sep 28 23:25:37 i want it already Sep 28 23:25:46 they are supposed tonship this week Sep 28 23:25:50 GeneralAntilles, hey, don't insult my winter timezone :P, of course GMT still exist ;) Sep 28 23:26:18 VDVsx, don't bring your timezone lies in here! Sep 28 23:26:42 * VDVsx likes GMT :D Sep 28 23:27:13 penguinbait, my sdk had a little hiccup and just suddenly stopped responding Sep 28 23:27:16 i needed to reflash it Sep 28 23:27:28 reflash the sdk? Sep 28 23:27:32 reinstall? Sep 28 23:27:32 and hoped to god i hadnt lost the code i'd wrote this last few days Sep 28 23:27:43 whatever it was needed doing Sep 28 23:27:55 all this timezones talk, are you guys waiting for the result of the elections in the next hours ? Sep 28 23:28:05 hell yeah! Sep 28 23:28:09 pffffffffff Sep 28 23:28:14 dave best have his clipboard and pen Sep 28 23:28:33 http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=7 Sep 28 23:28:53 it should show up there after the election concludes automagically, right? Sep 28 23:28:54 o_O i never knew about that page Sep 28 23:29:15 penguinbait, Dave has to run the calculations. Sep 28 23:29:28 I just kept changing the ID number till I found it. ;) Sep 28 23:29:48 penguinbait, did you even watch the video on the lcuk appreciation thread Sep 28 23:29:52 I no, but the vote tokens will be displayed for checking right? Sep 28 23:30:09 if not, do http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32164 Sep 28 23:30:13 My sound is out lcuk Sep 28 23:30:18 it might explain what i mean by "sdk" Sep 28 23:30:23 ahh that helps Sep 28 23:30:37 lcuk, I doubt that Dave will do it tonight, but we'll see ;) Sep 28 23:34:33 * VDVsx turns on the lcuk's decoder Sep 28 23:34:50 lol you just need another ass kickin Sep 28 23:35:18 lol you just need another ass kickin app made by lcuk Sep 28 23:35:31 lcuk, shii, I'm watching ODZ behind the scenes, part 2 Sep 28 23:36:11 they polished it all up quite nicely :) Sep 28 23:36:20 karsten is such a digital god! Sep 28 23:36:54 ugh Sep 28 23:37:06 i seriously want this sickness to go away Sep 28 23:37:49 lcuk, bah, already saw it, where's part 1 :P Sep 28 23:37:49 MaceN8x0, :( Sep 28 23:37:52 i am still in awe when someone said "my gf and i were watching revolution os..." Sep 28 23:37:53 did you mention eureka again Sep 28 23:37:58 haha Sep 28 23:37:58 i dunno Sep 28 23:38:04 lcuk, yeah Sep 28 23:38:13 thought we saw last ep Sep 28 23:38:13 was watching the first season Sep 28 23:38:15 or was there more Sep 28 23:38:19 ahhh cool Sep 28 23:38:23 that was even better Sep 28 23:38:25 don't think it is cancelled Sep 28 23:38:31 i dont either Sep 28 23:38:33 i never did Sep 28 23:38:42 it just ended its series Sep 28 23:38:50 net 3.5 says "you may now disconnect from the internet." Sep 28 23:38:58 season Sep 28 23:39:04 series = cancelled Sep 28 23:39:07 its autumn Sep 28 23:39:11 season = more to come Sep 28 23:39:16 no, the series wasnt cancelled Sep 28 23:39:21 eureka runs off season Sep 28 23:39:24 it finished naturally Sep 28 23:39:42 new ones come out in summer not fall Sep 28 23:39:48 it will be back for another series next year Sep 28 23:39:55 i hope Sep 28 23:40:00 its another season next year Sep 28 23:40:02 22 eps Sep 28 23:40:12 :D w00t Sep 28 23:45:14 If I preorder an N900, when do you guys think I'll get it? Sep 28 23:45:47 about 2 minutes after the delivery man knocks on the door Sep 28 23:46:09 heh Sep 28 23:46:14 if your home Sep 28 23:46:54 i know people who have n810 and who still dont get it Sep 28 23:47:14 Sargun_Screen: I offer an express delivery service if you ship it to me. I then guarantee delivery within 6 years at any address in the world free. Sep 28 23:47:58 two men walk into a bar Sep 28 23:48:03 SpeedEvil, that sounds like a great service Sep 28 23:48:05 hmm... http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page Sep 28 23:48:07 the third one ducks! Sep 28 23:48:29 SpeedEvil: heh. Sep 28 23:48:38 SpeedEvil: you seem to be everywhere. Sep 28 23:49:03 * SpeedEvil is omnipustulent! Sep 28 23:49:32 frals, Sep 28 23:49:35 thanks reverted Sep 28 23:49:40 thats odd Sep 28 23:51:31 I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to order one now, or wait several months Sep 28 23:51:44 Sargun_Screen, what's to decide? Sep 28 23:52:24 GeneralAntilles: heh, Well, A) If I'll have instant gratificaction, or this will be like the Pandora project, and it'll take 2 years to ship (Ok, maybe not 2 years, but a month and a half) Sep 28 23:52:41 Sargun_Screen, have you not seen any of the coverage Sep 28 23:52:41 Ah, yeah, dunno. Sep 28 23:52:47 B) If it's worth waiting for them to work out the Gen 0 bugs Sep 28 23:53:02 lcuk: apparently not. Sep 28 23:53:12 good Sep 28 23:53:15 C) If the device turns out to be a lemon. Sep 28 23:53:18 save yourself from ruining clothes Sep 28 23:53:21 i dribbled on mine Sep 28 23:53:26 My bet would be a few weeks to a month. Sep 28 23:53:37 mmm, my-symbian suppose to post a preview tonight (well, as in ~18hrs i guess), more droolage inc Sep 28 23:53:39 lcuk, hey, block those bastards as well (wiki) ;) Sep 28 23:53:40 lcuk: Well, the idea of the device seems fucking awesome Sep 28 23:53:41 I don't think lemon is an issue at this point.  Sep 28 23:53:49 VDVsx, im not a docmaster Sep 28 23:53:53 i dont know how to do this Sep 28 23:54:00 but understand docmaster is a bit busy Sep 28 23:54:06 and GeneralAntilles is too drunk lol Sep 28 23:54:17 lcuk, np, just did it ;) Sep 28 23:54:22 Sargun_Screen, as for gen 0, well, this is hardware release #5 if you count the WiMAX Edition. ;) Sep 28 23:54:27 Sargun_Screen, the feel of the device is fucking awesome Sep 28 23:54:50 * lcuk shakes one vigerously Sep 28 23:54:53 See, I really like the size ofthe N8XX, I'm not sure if I'll like the smaller form factor. Sep 28 23:55:08 Sargun_Screen, everybody I know who has one says you don't notice the size difference. Sep 28 23:55:14 lcuk: take a picture of it next to an n95 and send me, pretty please? ;) Sep 28 23:55:24 i have no n95 Sep 28 23:55:36 hahaha liqflow also pulses if i type Sep 28 23:55:42 especially when i hit enter Sep 28 23:55:51 well.. im sure someone in your town got one! ;) Sep 28 23:56:00 not anyone that i know Sep 28 23:56:09 i dont think Sep 28 23:56:10 doh Sep 28 23:56:13 GeneralAntilles: developer samples already came up? Sep 28 23:56:27 Sargun_Screen, its been on the street Sep 28 23:56:32 general public have played with it Sep 28 23:56:40 lcu when? Sep 28 23:56:47 Sargun_Screen, they're available for fondling in some flagship stores. Sep 28 23:56:52 Nokia has also seeded a few. Sep 28 23:57:11 Just ask el-cuck, the whore. Sep 28 23:57:15 park 1 and 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGHk4Aau438 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW2DGq13k8w Sep 28 23:57:20 part even Sep 28 23:57:27 VDVsx, you asked where it was Sep 28 23:57:34 Does it come with the soft sleeeve like the N810? Sep 28 23:57:42 im still thinking about getting my gf on one of them cruises to helsinki so i can go play with the n900 at the flagship store there... Sep 28 23:57:46 i dunno i have never had a consumer box Sep 28 23:57:54 but i recon its not really worth ~100€ to do it :D Sep 28 23:58:06 lcuk, thanks, already checked, part 1 is quite old :P Sep 28 23:58:13 frals: Damn you europeans! Sep 28 23:59:07 Sep. 28, 23:59:00 UTC Universal Time Sep 28 23:59:19 you are 10 seconds ahead mr penguinbait! Sep 28 23:59:30 the day skynet came active Sep 28 23:59:40 Mon Sep 28 16:59:40 PDT 2009 Sep 28 23:59:42 Sargun_Screen: i think the chicago flagship store is getting one as well Sep 28 23:59:49 good luck penguinbait Sep 28 23:59:50 frals: I'm near SFO. Sep 29 00:00:12 you too Sep 29 00:00:12 and to all the candidates Sep 29 00:00:13 * lcuk downloads slysics Sep 29 00:00:18 indeed Sep 29 00:00:21 not my fault your country is huge! ;) Sep 29 00:00:22 lcuk: That's August, fookio. Sep 29 00:00:22 i dunno where they are tho Sep 29 00:00:26 doh! Sep 29 00:00:33 im late for everything Sep 29 00:00:41 frals: -_- Sep 29 00:00:43 It was also in 1997. Sep 29 00:00:50 any ideas where I would get best price for n900 in canada? Sep 29 00:00:57 see! damned timezones Sep 29 00:01:01 its over Sep 29 00:01:04 a shop Sep 29 00:01:06 amazon.com has a good price but only ships to usa addresses Sep 29 00:01:23 Empero: Get a PO box in the states. Sep 29 00:01:35 Empero, i believe SpeedEvil is offering a good service Sep 29 00:01:42 Sargun_Screen, yeah or via a friend, sure Sep 29 00:02:19 Empero: you know, you have to pay duty though? Sep 29 00:03:14 yeah, I guess so Sep 29 00:03:21 that's why I was asking for canadian stores Sep 29 00:03:30 can someone find out why slysics isnt available in fremantle please Sep 29 00:03:33 no hassle with the border crossing Sep 29 00:03:40 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/slysics/ Sep 29 00:03:41 its here Sep 29 00:03:46 but i cant see it in app list Sep 29 00:04:04 i know thats 2008 Sep 29 00:04:14 but lots of apps should just compile and sorta work Sep 29 00:04:29 sort of work? Sep 29 00:04:32 so when pushing to autobuilder tick the fremantle and try anyway Sep 29 00:04:35 isn't this gunna be like OS2010? Sep 29 00:04:41 Sargun_Screen, a few tweaks are needed Sep 29 00:05:00 but well written os2008 apps appear to "just work" on the whole Sep 29 00:05:19 need things like menuclasses switching over for gtk stuff Sep 29 00:05:31 and certain things adding/removing/tweaking from the makefile Sep 29 00:05:38 errr postinst Sep 29 00:05:40 sorry Sep 29 00:06:09 * lcuk wants to try and play linerider Sep 29 00:07:20 * GeneralAntilles drops his signatures. Sep 29 00:08:20 Ok, I just bought one on Amazon Sep 29 00:09:05 meep, too much monies, too much latency Sep 29 00:09:19 hoho Sep 29 00:12:05 alright, time to crash.. good luck to everyone running in the election and thanks for all the help with lobbying for a solution for MMS :) Sep 29 00:15:00 frals, thanks for your help :) Sep 29 00:15:02 gnite Sep 29 00:16:42 meow Sep 29 00:17:02 .... Sep 29 00:17:19 angasule, are you male or female pussy? Sep 29 00:17:27 rofl Sep 29 00:17:42 xDD Sep 29 00:17:43 Ok, if my N900 doesn't get here by Oct 2, I'll be -_- Sep 29 00:17:55 * lcuk shakes his n900 + u Sep 29 00:18:01 @ even Sep 29 00:18:04 xP Sep 29 00:18:15 * Sargun_Screen -_- @ lcuk Sep 29 00:18:16 lcuk: I think everybody in here hates you, except the others we also hate :) Sep 29 00:18:16 * FireFox16 snatches the n900 and runs Sep 29 00:18:33 :O Sep 29 00:18:48 * FireFox16 gives it back, just teasing ;) Sep 29 00:18:57 FireFox16, its ok, you took my 770 Sep 29 00:19:00 retro cool (H) Sep 29 00:19:02 xDDDDDDDDDDDD Sep 29 00:19:12 The N770 is retro? Sep 29 00:19:21 angasule, why on earth am i hated Sep 29 00:19:25 Well, My Laptop + N900 + Palm Pre = Awesome. Sep 29 00:19:33 I'll have an unstoppable force of gadgets. Sep 29 00:19:37 what res is palm pre Sep 29 00:19:37 lcuk: do you have an N900? Sep 29 00:19:42 Now, all I need is a bluetooth router. Sep 29 00:19:44 and can you run c code on it? Sep 29 00:19:48 to network 'em all. Sep 29 00:19:53 or python Sep 29 00:19:55 or c++ Sep 29 00:20:03 or cobol Sep 29 00:20:04 or any other language other than javascript Sep 29 00:20:09 angasule: for development reasons Sep 29 00:20:15 no Sep 29 00:20:22 lcuk: ....yes it can run C, Python, ASM even Sep 29 00:20:34 http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/palm-pre-runs-doom-smartphone-loving-space-marines-rejoyce/ Sep 29 00:20:35 i thought in the webos you had html Sep 29 00:20:50 I thought that there were aspiring hackers everythwere. Sep 29 00:21:42 what res is the hardware Sep 29 00:22:20 lcuk: you can take advantage of directfb in webos ;) Sep 29 00:22:26 and i notice they arent pushing 3d caps yet Sep 29 00:22:28 480x320 Sep 29 00:22:37 Ok, gunna walk out of the train Sep 29 00:22:39 hard screen res? Sep 29 00:22:44 Sargun_Screen: umh, but you have to jailbreak it or something? Sep 29 00:22:48 yikes Sep 29 00:22:51 Sargun_Screen: wait till it stops! Sep 29 00:22:53 (root it) Sep 29 00:23:01 itÅ› not that hard Sep 29 00:23:12 FireFox16: still, not the same as N900 :) Sep 29 00:23:13 its a hacked phone usable on the network Sep 29 00:23:20 errr rooted Sep 29 00:23:25 yup Sep 29 00:23:28 kinda Sep 29 00:23:41 can you make apps for webos which talk to apps in the backend Sep 29 00:23:47 yes Sep 29 00:23:51 good Sep 29 00:24:02 full api or just calling binaries? Sep 29 00:24:06 you can port liqbase to it xD Sep 29 00:24:11 only with xv Sep 29 00:24:17 i need YUV video for now Sep 29 00:24:17 full api i think Sep 29 00:24:21 but im looking at options Sep 29 00:24:24 powervr is one Sep 29 00:24:43 how do you break out of html sandbox Sep 29 00:24:53 with a tiny pickaxe Sep 29 00:24:53 sounds like an insecure engine Sep 29 00:25:01 by installing a terminal app Sep 29 00:25:02 html and backend usually never meet Sep 29 00:25:06 still Sep 29 00:25:40 at least now i understand why these things run so fast Sep 29 00:26:17 they are doing a lot less work per frame than my 810 ever did Sep 29 00:26:51 hey lcuk, I sent you a private message on itt Sep 29 00:26:54 tmo Sep 29 00:26:56 whatever Sep 29 00:27:12 hay penguinbait :D Sep 29 00:27:24 * FireFox16 is b-man Sep 29 00:27:29 ah Sep 29 00:27:32 hey bman Sep 29 00:28:04 what have you been up to? :) Sep 29 00:28:57 * FireFox16 grabs some coffee Sep 29 00:30:25 wishing for hardware, you? Sep 29 00:30:43 and counting votes Sep 29 00:32:10 iḿ mostly playing around with Mer 0.16 in VMware Sep 29 00:33:16 penguinbait: wishing for the N900? eh? xD Sep 29 00:33:39 pandora, n900, something from outerspace, a monkey Sep 29 00:33:41 ?? Sep 29 00:33:43 something Sep 29 00:34:16 iĺl probably be getting one soon Sep 29 00:34:36 (N900) Sep 29 00:35:25 waiting for some carriers, to see what happens Sep 29 00:35:57 im getting mine unlocked Sep 29 00:37:46 * FireFox16 starts working on his geometry home work, god i hate geometry Sep 29 00:47:31 Half the apartment is on one 15 amp circuit. Sep 29 00:47:32 A Sep 29 00:47:32 we Sep 29 00:47:33 som Sep 29 00:47:33 e. Sep 29 00:47:39 That was cool. Sep 29 00:48:32 xD Sep 29 01:00:55 L Sep 29 01:00:59 O Sep 29 01:01:02 L Sep 29 01:26:39 wjt: Ping? Sep 29 01:27:14 Sargun_Screen: You're not getting your tablet by Oct 2nd, promise. Sep 29 01:33:14 Anyone want to install and test countdown-home from extras-testing? Sep 29 01:33:27 And hopefully comment and thumbs-up on maemo.org/packages? Sep 29 01:33:35 I'll give it a shot. Sep 29 01:34:24 fiferboy, I tested it (sbox of course :P) Sep 29 01:34:52 zerojay: Thanks! Sep 29 01:35:31 VDVsx: What did you think? Sep 29 01:39:36 fiferboy, I didn't tried to customize it, my only complaint are the fonts/color of the events strings, I can't saw the events clearly with a darker background (probably I can change it) Sep 29 01:41:54 fiferboy, updating to 0.5-8.. Sep 29 01:46:59 Anyone have experience with Ovi maps on an actual device? I ask because in the demo videos I've seen, it always seems to take half a minute to open. Why is that exactly? Sep 29 01:47:42 fiferboy, nice color chooser ;) Sep 29 01:48:14 VDVsx: It is a work in progress, but hopefully workable Sep 29 01:48:45 fiferboy, it's quite good IMO :) Sep 29 01:49:04 Thanks! Sep 29 01:50:32 just solve my problem, changing the widget background Sep 29 01:51:17 fiferboy, what about a real countdown option ? (a counter instead of the text) Sep 29 01:52:30 jaybomb: It's loading up a lot of data, most likely. Sep 29 01:52:57 VDVsx: Good idea. I was going to say the same thing. Sep 29 01:53:51 a counter puts more pressure in the user :P Sep 29 01:54:09 You mean like a flip clock? Sep 29 01:54:39 this is not for taking anywhere and should not actually be made: Sep 29 01:54:50 but for a real countdown timer, it should be skinned like a bomb Sep 29 01:54:54 zerojay: Does that mean the maps are located on the device? Sep 29 01:56:00 jaybomb: I believe they first have to be downloaded. I think they're cached. Sep 29 01:56:43 fiferboy, like 1 min left -> 00:01:23 for e.g Sep 29 01:57:44 Ah, I think I get it Sep 29 01:57:51 That's a nice feature. Still, seems like a long time to wait for an app to open. :) Sep 29 01:57:59 fiferboy, this way the user can choose how the countdown is displayed Sep 29 01:58:29 jaybomb: Not that big of a deal.. you can always switch to something else to wait it out. Sep 29 01:59:27 It's not a deal breaker for me. I wonder if the opening dialogue screen with something other than a black screen that says "maps" would make it appear more ... graceful. Sep 29 02:01:33 are there any possible tricks for getting python / pygtk things to start faster? Sep 29 02:02:07 about 2 seconds without feedback is as much as most people expect nowadays Sep 29 02:02:33 There was something in Diablo for that... can't remember the name. Sep 29 02:07:05 If the maps are cached, does that mean they will work without a data connection? That was my assumption anyway. Sep 29 02:07:14 fiferboy: Good stuff. I voted you up. Sep 29 02:07:24 zerojay: :D Sep 29 02:08:12 fiferboy, your packages only depends on libc ? o_0 Sep 29 02:08:27 fiferboy: If you're looking for another small project you might be able to sink your teeth into, I've got an idea. Sep 29 02:08:56 VDVsx: Yes, it seems the builddeps are correct but the install deps are somewhat missing :| Sep 29 02:09:06 zerojay: Hit me Sep 29 02:09:45 fiferboy: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/make_cellular_data_stats_easier_for_users_to_find/ Sep 29 02:09:53 Solution #1 in particular. Sep 29 02:11:30 fiferboy, + 1 for that Sep 29 02:12:24 I'd do it myself but technically speaking, all programming work I do becomes property of my employer, so... Sep 29 02:12:50 zerojay: That is a bit of a blocker Sep 29 02:13:09 MaceN8x0, catching up on the second half of season 3 now. Sep 29 02:13:09 S Sep 29 02:13:10 t Sep 29 02:13:10 up Sep 29 02:13:10 id Sep 29 02:13:15 . . . Sep 29 02:13:15 Just a tiny bit, even with my employer being as relaxed as they generally are about this sort of thing. Sep 29 02:13:20 Stupid writer's strike. Sep 29 02:13:49 I work with a writer that went through with the picketing and all that. Sep 29 02:14:14 zerojay: That one would be pretty tricky to test in scratchbox Sep 29 02:14:26 Turns out he was still able to work without being a scab though. Just had to work for some specific companies that already had deals or something like that. Sep 29 02:15:33 Well.. just an idea. :) Sep 29 02:16:03 zerojay: I'll probably give it a go, looks simple and useful Sep 29 02:16:31 Honestly, I'm dying for it. Sep 29 02:17:02 Also an option to 'ping' or make a configured noise every 100/500K/... Sep 29 02:17:55 zerojay: I assume it would be useful to be able to reset the accumulation periodically? Sep 29 02:18:30 I'm in the process of implementing a little graph thingy for my own network use. Sep 29 02:18:55 What could be done is clicking upon the widget could bring up the data counters dialog box with the Reset button... same one used by Control Panel. Sep 29 02:19:09 Having a button on the widget to reset is something I consider A Very Bad Thing. Sep 29 02:19:34 Including such things as making noise when a given amount is transferred, and lower thresholds if the laptop isn't in use. Sep 29 02:19:38 Maybe through the widget configuration. Sep 29 02:19:42 A reset would usually have a confirmation dialog Sep 29 02:20:02 or a reset but a way to get to past graphs and counters Sep 29 02:20:08 You'd think, but apparently not. :/ Sep 29 02:20:17 This however seems like a fundamentally simpler first cut. Sep 29 02:21:15 I'd prefer something simple at first.. no need for graphs or anything fancy. More important that it could be potentially ready for N900 sales release. Sep 29 02:21:33 Then come the whiz-bang cool shit. ;) Sep 29 02:21:55 Wouldn't even be a big deal if it wasn't so buried and hard to find. Sep 29 02:22:00 yeah Sep 29 02:22:21 I wonder how tricky it would be to jam munin into a pretty wrapper Sep 29 02:29:59 fiferboy, if you need more testing, poke me, I'm happy to help ;) Sep 29 02:30:02 gnite Sep 29 02:30:14 VDVsx: Thanks! Sep 29 02:31:34 zerojay: where in the world are you? Sep 29 02:31:44 oh, canada. Sep 29 02:31:54 Yes, good ole .ca. Sep 29 02:34:21 SpeedEvil: Is that a pun on the national anthem? Sep 29 02:46:52 fifer: actually not. Sep 29 02:47:04 I realised immedately after I typed it of course. Sep 29 02:48:38 I don't care if you lick windows, take the special bus or occasionally pee on yourself. You hang in there, sunshine – you're friggin' special. Sep 29 02:49:24 I know. :) Sep 29 02:49:29 Mommy says so. Sep 29 02:54:29 believe her ;) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 29 02:59:58 2009