**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 29 02:59:58 2009 Sep 29 03:18:10 and that goes for the rest of you all too Sep 29 03:47:44 hi Sep 29 03:47:48 some one Sep 29 03:48:06 have a problem with some packiges Sep 29 03:48:16 traing to remove Sep 29 03:48:25 :) Sep 29 04:38:45 Ok, so I preordered the N900. If I wait at my door step, will it get here faster? Sep 29 04:38:51 What about a hunger strike? Sep 29 04:46:35 Delivery estimate: We need a little more time to provide you with a good estimate. We'll notify you via e-mail as soon as we have an estimated delivery date. You can cancel at any time. Sep 29 04:46:37 :-( Sep 29 05:15:08 Sargun: Congratulations, good choice! Sep 29 05:25:35 morning Sep 29 05:25:36 MikaT, are you the devil on my shoulder? Sep 29 05:31:22 * MikaT is a non-devil. Sep 29 05:32:12 Sargun: Naah, not a devil, I just would like to see that nice device in stores finally. Sep 29 05:32:43 * Sargun is going to twiddle his thumbs until it arrives Sep 29 05:35:41 won't have any thumbs by the the it gets there Sep 29 06:24:14 Morning, all Sep 29 06:24:34 morn jaffa Sep 29 06:24:41 MNÖÖ Sep 29 06:24:41 * Jaffa must remember to change his sig once dneary posts the election results Sep 29 06:24:55 Looks like a good turnout Sep 29 07:04:56 * RST38h moos triumpantly Sep 29 07:05:12 what'd you win over? Sep 29 07:05:21 Sts: Fremantle Sep 29 07:05:36 ah Sep 29 07:06:04 Sts: Pretty much ready for extras-testing Sep 29 07:07:20 yay Sep 29 07:10:35 wb _BuBU Sep 29 07:13:00 <_BuBU> thx Stkskeeps :) Sep 29 07:14:16 morning dneary Sep 29 07:14:29 Morning Stskeeps Sep 29 07:14:36 I suppose you want the results? Sep 29 07:14:45 Niels has them, they should be online soon Sep 29 07:15:01 hehe, wasn't why i said morning but yeah, eventually :) Sep 29 07:16:37 dneary: So, who won? Sep 29 07:17:48 RST38h: I wouldn't want to ruin the suspense... Sep 29 07:18:26 I will say it was cut & dried - no one-vote differences in transfers, no person getting elected off transfers from another candidate, etc Sep 29 07:19:06 * RST38h is stupid and does not understand what dneary is talking about =) Sep 29 07:19:17 * Myrtti smacks RST38h Sep 29 07:19:25 pay attention :-P Sep 29 07:20:19 RST38h: STV can give interesting situations for strategy, voting pacts and so on Sep 29 07:20:27 Say there are 3 candidates, and one seat Sep 29 07:20:43 One candidate gets 40% of the vote, and the other two get 31% and 29% Sep 29 07:21:37 The two candidates who came second and third have an election pact, so that the guy with 29% has asked his voters to vote for the 31% guy in second place, and most of them did so Sep 29 07:22:02 By taking 80% of 29%'s transfers, 31% moves up to 53% and wins the election Sep 29 07:22:08 Is this a bad math problem? Sep 29 07:22:18 Sargun: No Sep 29 07:22:30 He just implies that you should off the other two candidates and dump bodies into some river Sep 29 07:22:38 RST38h, agreed. Sep 29 07:22:52 That will fix the math for sure Sep 29 07:36:32 i feel kind of dirty running 32bit xp on this core2duo Sep 29 07:36:54 even though i doubt there is much to gain by running a 64bit os on it Sep 29 07:40:48 my iPhone is the best Sep 29 07:41:01 Heh Sep 29 07:41:11 <3 Sep 29 07:41:13 You must have an 8th generation iphone that no one knows about .. Sep 29 07:44:14 the iphone GX? Sep 29 07:44:19 (because X is cool) Sep 29 07:44:32 :) Sep 29 07:44:47 Yeah, but in iPhone i can send MMS what i can't do it in N900 Sep 29 07:45:26 and how long did it take for it to get MMS support again? :) Sep 29 07:45:46 with pictures! Sep 29 07:46:08 iphone...now with video! Sep 29 07:46:10 haha Sep 29 07:46:15 N900 can do multitasking with all apps :-P Sep 29 07:46:22 MMS is a con. Sep 29 07:46:32 it has it's uses Sep 29 07:46:33 Email is much better. Sep 29 07:46:54 Mainly, because I have to pay a crap load to send an MMS, but my internet is inclusive and unlimited. Sep 29 07:47:04 I know, I don't get it either .. Sep 29 07:47:21 hahaha Sep 29 07:47:34 has anybody seen the last episode of house? Sep 29 07:47:39 no, and don't spoil it Sep 29 07:47:41 with the video game? Sep 29 07:47:42 will watch tonight Sep 29 07:47:45 lol Sep 29 07:47:47 No, I've not seen any of this series so don't spoil it :P Sep 29 07:49:02 I'm downloading the pilot as we speak. Sep 29 07:49:16 Got quite a bit of TV to catch up on, never had this problem when I Was single :P Sep 29 07:49:24 i want to play that game Sep 29 07:50:02 How meny app is to Nokia? Sep 29 07:50:43 iPhone: if you're trying to troll, investing in your spelling skills may be a better choice first Sep 29 07:50:59 iPhone: so how did you manage the weather yesterday? was a bit rainy and stormy Sep 29 07:51:23 iPhone: perhaps this year the weather won't surprise car people Sep 29 07:52:25 it was a bit dreary here in Pirkanmaa Sep 29 07:52:48 iPhone, Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter Sep 29 07:54:51 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Sep 29 07:55:26 does that mean I win? Sep 29 07:55:28 http://www.geoiptool.com/en/?IP=83.145.237.176 Sep 29 07:55:39 also, did you actually know him/her/it? Sep 29 07:55:55 johnx: just looked at his realname and geoip'd it Sep 29 07:56:19 Does anyone actually know when the N900 is going to shit? Sep 29 07:56:29 Sargun: huh? Sep 29 07:56:42 Myrtti, I can't find any concrete info on the N900's ship date. Sep 29 07:56:47 oh, SHIP Sep 29 07:56:48 erm, oh, not shit, ship. Sep 29 07:56:59 roight :-D Sep 29 07:57:18 Sargun, shitting hasn't been officially announced as an out-of-the-box feature, but it's suspected that 3rd party devs will start on that as soon as it ships in october (or possibly early november) Sep 29 07:57:33 haha Sep 29 07:58:06 johnx, http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikipedian_protester.png Sep 29 08:01:52 johnx, eh, eh? Sep 29 08:02:07 pretty good :) Sep 29 08:02:32 oh, you mean october/november? Sep 29 08:02:43 yeah. Sep 29 08:02:44 I'm just repeating what people are talking about on talk.m.o Sep 29 08:03:06 different people are saying different stores are reporting different ship dates on different days Sep 29 08:03:10 -_- Sep 29 08:03:16 I expect something a little more solid may show up at the summit Sep 29 08:05:04 yeah, this n900 diaria is getting messy Sep 29 08:05:09 we need the solid shit now Sep 29 08:05:20 ooh, it's back on oct 22 Sep 29 08:06:45 with the ship date randomness, the date is gonna jump to Sept 3rd eventually by random chance and everyone will have been playing with it for months Sep 29 08:06:58 lol Sep 29 08:07:14 nasty stretched out video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qR0Uke2XNI Sep 29 08:07:41 This is Blasphemy, this is madness! Sep 29 08:07:56 (in reference to the changing of ship dates) Sep 29 08:08:23 I feel like I could express many of my thoughts by pulling random images, texts, audio, and video from the internet/history Sep 29 08:09:22 goatse.cx over and over again? :P Sep 29 08:09:28 Stskeeps, -_- Sep 29 08:09:56 ?_? Sep 29 08:10:07 ?_? Sep 29 08:10:10 ermm, stupid unicode Sep 29 08:10:21 did anyone see the look of disapproval? Sep 29 08:22:40 hm Sep 29 08:22:50 that house episode kind of sucked Sep 29 08:23:05 * MaceN8x0 moves onto castle Sep 29 08:24:11 nicki heat haha Sep 29 08:27:42 zerojay: yo Sep 29 08:39:03 hm Sep 29 08:39:48 hahaha Sep 29 08:39:57 castle is so damn funny Sep 29 09:03:51 * milos_ looking at results of council elections Sep 29 09:06:08 milos_: are we all going to hell? Sep 29 09:06:31 Stskeeps: nope hehe Sep 29 09:06:41 Stskeeps, well, I'm up for a road trip Sep 29 09:07:29 * Jaffa sad for sjgadsby. Always a bridesmaid, never a bride :-( Sep 29 09:13:14 jaffa, hes lucky - so are you and i actually - those community pimped uniforms look scary ;) Sep 29 09:13:33 bridezilla would be proud lol Sep 29 09:18:48 lcuk: awesome vid about the onedotzero stuff :) Sep 29 09:19:09 morning lcuk Sep 29 09:21:07 tigert, awesome experience :) Sep 29 09:21:17 lcuk: no doubt :) Sep 29 09:21:19 sweet Sep 29 09:21:22 n900 works so well Sep 29 09:21:27 hm namedtuples in python Sep 29 09:21:34 mornin woglinde Sep 29 09:21:53 * lcuk now needs to find a job tho Sep 29 09:22:22 lcuk hm Sep 29 09:22:30 why you dont find one? Sep 29 09:26:01 long story Sep 29 09:26:03 RST38h: ping? Sep 29 09:26:08 but after tomorrow im out of work Sep 29 09:28:01 hmm, only being able to define one APN seems like a serious flaw in the sw Sep 29 09:31:08 Hello. A question about the N900 - does it come with a video telephony app that is using the front cam? (The nokia page's device specs don't even seem to mention the front cam...) Sep 29 09:31:41 X-Fade: pong! Sep 29 09:32:18 RST38h: You can start to upload to fremantle extras-devel incoming-nonfree. Sep 29 09:32:23 hanno: Will be eventually used for messaging, afaik Sep 29 09:32:24 hanno, almost certainly, given that the n800/n810 had such an app for SIP (provided by Nokia) and an app for Gizmo (provided by Gizmo) Sep 29 09:32:36 RST38h: Processing is not working yet, but then I have something to test with ;) Sep 29 09:32:37 X-Fade: Acknowledged. Will try tonight =) Sep 29 09:32:51 X-Fade: so it is not nonfree but incoming-nonfree??? Sep 29 09:33:01 but it's confirmed that the N900 has a highres cam on its back and a lores cam on its front? Sep 29 09:33:05 RST38h: Just like for diablo and chinook. Sep 29 09:33:26 * RST38h remembers uploading to just "nonfree"... Weird Sep 29 09:33:28 "lores"? Low res? Sep 29 09:33:37 hanno; Yes. Sep 29 09:33:41 Yes, lowres, sorry. Sep 29 09:33:42 hanno: o if so, ues. Sep 29 09:34:40 ues? Sep 29 09:34:44 RST38h: https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#.22non-free.22_packages Sep 29 09:35:06 RST38h: But only extras-devel for now. Sep 29 09:35:14 RST38h: Instructions will be updated later. Sep 29 09:37:49 2nd question: N900 needs to be recharged after one day of use. Confirmed? Sep 29 09:38:19 with how much you would play with it, that seems fair.. Sep 29 09:38:39 hanno: which smarthphone doesn't? :) Sep 29 09:38:51 X-Fade: Understood. How long before -testing? Sep 29 09:38:56 lol, I can't type. Sep 29 09:38:58 if it lasts the rumoured ~12hrs with wlan im a happy panda, im used to be dead after a few hrs with wlan on :p Sep 29 09:39:06 hanno; This is what witnesses said Sep 29 09:39:09 * hanno considers buying the N900 for his wife and himself. Wife needs waf-complient hardware. Sep 29 09:39:16 RST38h: Depends on other things, can't say atm. Sep 29 09:39:23 Ack. Sep 29 09:39:42 * RST38h read this as "lasts 12hrs with wlan in a happy panda" Sep 29 09:39:48 lcuk; did you manage to scratch the onedotzero n900 easily? or did the my-symbian device get an older screen? Sep 29 09:39:50 :D Sep 29 09:39:51 hanno: your wife probally wants a diamond ring insteead Sep 29 09:39:56 for wedidng present Sep 29 09:40:09 n900 wont fit on the ring finger. Sep 29 09:40:18 frals, mmm scratch? Sep 29 09:40:27 uh, scratch the display* Sep 29 09:40:35 frals, mmm scratch? Sep 29 09:40:47 mm, how far away is karmic again? Sep 29 09:41:03 i take that as a no then! ;) Sep 29 09:41:19 Captain_Picard: depends on how big your fingers are Sep 29 09:41:20 She isn't the diamond ring type and she married a nerd on purpose. Sep 29 09:41:34 well if you mean scratch as in "oh crap, n900 + keys in pocket is bad", no i keep my n900 in pocket with keys Sep 29 09:42:02 " got the device without any protective case and the display got some awful scratches in just one day, and that's only because some sand grains got into the pocket I kept it in." Sep 29 09:42:20 o_O Sep 29 09:42:30 im going with him having a crappy old screen then Sep 29 09:43:01 The resistive touchscreen cover is a thin layer of plastic. Sep 29 09:43:11 A moment Sep 29 09:43:15 Anyone not using a screen protector is rather silly Sep 29 09:43:48 SpeedEvil: http://www.n97geeks.com/General/nokia-n97-stress-test.html Sep 29 09:44:12 frals: same url Sep 29 09:44:15 (mind you it is N97 not N900, so your mileage may vary) Sep 29 09:44:50 yeah, i saw some youtube video where they went to town with key/coin and something more and didnt manage to scratch it at all - im hoping its the same protective coating on the n900 Sep 29 09:45:08 ah yeah its that vid :) Sep 29 09:45:42 key sharpness varies lots Sep 29 09:46:06 the actual thing I'd be worried about more with keys isn't scratches, it's breaking the screen Sep 29 09:46:09 i doubt ill fit keys in the same pocket as my n900 anyway o_O Sep 29 09:46:20 the screen is a ~0.5mm thick bit of glass on the front Sep 29 09:46:29 with maybe a 1mm bit of glass behind it Sep 29 09:46:35 A UK prison computer system was left in lockdown after jail bosses gave a convicted cybercriminal the task of reprogramming it Sep 29 09:46:49 if you press it with a small object, it risks cracking Sep 29 09:47:04 SpeedEvil,frals: Gentlemen, simply carry it in a clean pocket and it will be ok Sep 29 09:47:12 RST38h++ Sep 29 09:47:20 Unless you sit on it. Sep 29 09:47:20 We have got 5800 in the family, it took an effort to damage the screen Sep 29 09:47:23 N900 - not for hobos Sep 29 09:47:27 yeah, thats what i figured Sep 29 09:47:33 Sitting probably won't do a thing Sep 29 09:47:39 or accidentally bump it Sep 29 09:47:44 Unless you have got a stinger back there Sep 29 09:48:00 RST38h, how did you find out my secret? *bzzzz* Sep 29 09:48:13 was just curious how the touchscreens stack up to the old nokia displays, as the "sand in pocket" sounded very silly from that pov Sep 29 09:48:18 johnx: Sep 29 09:48:40 frals: Sand will damage most gadgets, sorry Sep 29 09:49:01 frals: People use sand to polish steel Sep 29 09:49:21 well, im not walking around with half a beach in my pockets :) Sep 29 09:49:30 And a screen protector means you can simply pull the protector and replace. Sep 29 09:49:45 frals: any amount will do Sep 29 09:49:52 * johnx has sand under the screens of both zaurii, but his n800 escaped that fate Sep 29 09:50:07 * RST38h will wait for cases and screen protectors made specifically for N900 =) Sep 29 09:50:34 SpeedEvil, which doesn't matter at all if the more likely scenario happens where it ends up behind the front layer of the screen anyways Sep 29 09:50:35 not manage to mess up any of my previous phones due to sand in pocket so i hope ill be fine ;) Sep 29 09:50:56 PING 1254235856 Sep 29 09:51:17 hi h4rd Sep 29 09:51:56 http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/29/keepin-it-real-fake-part-ccxxxvi-nokia-n900-rip-shows-no-trad/ aha Sep 29 09:52:01 hi, sorry for that Sep 29 09:52:24 no worries :) guess I should have said "pong" Sep 29 09:54:23 maybe a ping from Brazil could be better accepted :) Sep 29 09:54:50 Does anybody know the expected fees for using Nokia's navigation software on N900? Sep 29 10:00:45 RST38h, grit is the worst thing Sep 29 10:01:03 1 tiny little grain caught under stylus can ruin anything Sep 29 10:01:14 :'( Sep 29 10:01:41 i hate the feeling as well when your stylus goes from fullspeed to digging a trench, my 810 had one Sep 29 10:02:39 lcuk: Yeah, know that feeling. Sep 29 10:02:44 * SpeedEvil looks a the booklet 3g. Sep 29 10:02:51 * SpeedEvil stabs windows tax. Sep 29 10:03:44 * hanno found prices for Nokia navigation - but list is puzzling: http://europe.nokia.com/explore-services/maps/prices_and_coverage Sep 29 10:03:54 SpeedEvil, dell mini 10v Sep 29 10:04:20 johnx: I like the metal case. Sep 29 10:04:30 hp mini 21xx Sep 29 10:04:43 johnx: I really want a replacement for my toshiba portege 3110ct, and this is the closest I've seen. Sep 29 10:05:08 hanno, not sure if you can extrapolate prices for maemo stuff from symbian stuff... Sep 29 10:05:27 pricing seemed to be device-independent. Sep 29 10:05:36 SpeedEvil, just don't pretend to yourself that the booklet is something different than an expensive netbook Sep 29 10:06:00 Corsac, wow that thing boots fast Sep 29 10:06:08 X-Fade, crossover between fingertouching and sometimes stylus makes this more troublesome - at least before most of the time i could keep a pristine screen and clean stylus - now every time i draw im cutting through grimy fingerprints Sep 29 10:06:31 * lcuk is pleased he doesnt have to press to write :) Sep 29 10:12:27 reading the my-symbian preview was a mistake - now i want the damn thing even more. :( Sep 29 10:12:48 johnx: I would prefer some things to be different about it - but I've been using small laptops for a long time, and find them convenient. (though I'm not going to be able to afford it). Sep 29 10:13:30 SpeedEvil, I totally agree. I'm still kicking myself for not bying a thinkpad S31 when I had the chance Sep 29 10:13:46 S31? Sep 29 10:13:55 all I'm saying is you need to make sure you aren't lumping the booklet in a higher class just because it's more expensive Sep 29 10:14:00 (I just sold an X31 :) Sep 29 10:14:11 that looked nice too Sep 29 10:14:19 but this was a little different Sep 29 10:14:21 johnx: It depends - if the metal case actually makes it more robust - it did with my 3110ct - ... Sep 29 10:14:35 hp mini 21xx Sep 29 10:14:36 * SpeedEvil has a x60s ATM - from ebay. It's OK. Sep 29 10:14:38 did you look at it? Sep 29 10:16:01 * SpeedEvil is trying to avoid looking at shiny stuff - I've got no budget for it for the next several months at least. Sep 29 10:16:30 I pointed at it cause it's a 1) metal 2) netbook 3) far cheaper than the booklet Sep 29 10:16:58 I haven't seen the price of the booklet Sep 29 10:17:31 Both prices are regrettably unimportant though. Sep 29 10:17:46 * Corsac is waiting for his touchbook Sep 29 10:17:50 I've heard $799 for the booklet, and seems ~$400 for the hp 2140 Sep 29 10:17:56 and I know the feeling WRT money :) Sep 29 10:18:50 (all USD, not that helpful to everyone here at this hour) Sep 29 10:19:17 for reference: Thinkpad S31: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:S31 Sep 29 10:19:48 yeah - that's damn close to what I want Sep 29 10:20:22 SpeedEvil: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X31 (I loved it) Sep 29 10:20:49 I'm such an idiot for not picking when up when I had a chance :| Sep 29 10:20:55 unavailable on ebay Sep 29 10:21:03 here at least Sep 29 10:21:09 yeah, not available in the EU or US Sep 29 10:21:40 I've got the x60s - which is sort of like a slimmed down x31 Sep 29 10:21:48 yeah Sep 29 10:22:01 the x200 looks really nice for me Sep 29 10:22:22 I wish there were 4:3 laptops Sep 29 10:22:23 I'm more flexible about carrying a little more wait to have some serious CPU power Sep 29 10:22:34 SpeedEvil: I wish that too Sep 29 10:22:40 as long as 4 terms fit on a screen I could care less Sep 29 10:22:50 I love my t61 Sep 29 10:22:53 crying for the time it'll be gone :( Sep 29 10:23:23 t400s look nice but 1440×900 on a 14" in just not enough Sep 29 10:23:45 strangely, pointing devices are what I'm most picky about Sep 29 10:24:31 I like trackpoints. Sep 29 10:24:42 me too Sep 29 10:24:48 me too Sep 29 10:24:48 or a really nice, roomy touchpad Sep 29 10:25:38 the macbook thinkpad is really the only one I've been able to actually enjoy Sep 29 10:25:46 s/thinkpad/touchpad/ Sep 29 10:25:46 johnx meant: the macbook touchpad is really the only one I've been able to actually enjoy Sep 29 10:25:57 and that means I'm sleep typing again :) Sep 29 10:26:06 * johnx heads to bed Sep 29 10:26:28 night Sep 29 10:26:45 VDVsx, you need to put your superhero pants on already and get in the room allocation thread! Sep 29 10:26:54 gnite johnx Sep 29 10:28:08 lcuk, done, but I don't have most of the 'details' atm, can help much Sep 29 10:28:15 *can't Sep 29 10:28:24 VDVsx: What details do you want? ;-) Sep 29 10:28:45 * lcuk laughs asjaffa emails a 40000000 page document Sep 29 10:28:55 * lcuk is actually quite relieved right now ;) Sep 29 10:29:08 wjt: Found the account plugins yesterday. Great stuff. Any chance you can start using /opt? Sep 29 10:29:19 Jaffa, the list of sponsored participants that will stay at the hotel, if possible ;) Sep 29 10:30:19 VDVsx: My starting point would be "anyone who has put Shared/Single in 'Who Needs A Room?'" but doesn't have a hotel listed elsewhere Sep 29 10:30:38 * Stskeeps wonders who ends up as council chair Sep 29 10:30:45 wjt: As per http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Sep 29 10:31:48 Jaffa, so, 41 sponsored participants ? Sep 29 10:34:02 VDVsx: 50 people have been accepted for sponsorship Sep 29 10:34:28 I dropped out. Sep 29 10:34:59 hm, weren't you in candidates list at some point for council? Sep 29 10:35:05 zerojay: Ah yes. Has your registration been removed? Sep 29 10:35:32 zerojay, can you edit the accommodation table then ? or can I remove your name from there :) Sep 29 10:35:36 Quim reqested those who won't be able to make it to send him an e-mail and as far as I know, it already has been. Correct me if I'm wrong. Sep 29 10:35:49 Will do. Sep 29 10:35:57 zerojay, thanks Sep 29 10:37:03 zerojay: You are not registered. So, that 50 sponsored participants does NOT include you Sep 29 10:37:13 Ok, cool. Sep 29 10:38:05 VDVsx: Link me? Sep 29 10:38:30 Stskeeps: And yes, I was running for council. Sep 29 10:38:53 zerojay, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Accommodation (first one) Sep 29 10:40:26 VDVsx: Heh.. I like that trying to select the lines and moving upwards to select the entire portion of me on that table results in automatic scrolling downwards and selecting the rest of the table. Sep 29 10:41:37 * RST38h moos Sep 29 10:42:28 VDVsx: Done. Sep 29 10:42:40 zerojay, thanks Sep 29 10:44:09 mornin council member gcobb \o congratulations Sep 29 10:44:31 zerojay: wtf :'( Sep 29 10:45:46 wjt: Sorry dude. :/ Sep 29 10:46:20 it seems a shame that / couldn't've been made 1G bigger, rather than adding an extra gig in /opt Sep 29 10:46:28 Agreed. Sep 29 10:46:45 For what it's worth, your plugins are working really well so far. Sep 29 10:46:51 Worth the wait. Sep 29 10:46:59 all praise should be directed to jonny :) Sep 29 10:47:04 I don't know how we're supposed to use idle though. Sep 29 10:47:22 lcuk: ta, muchly. Am very surprised by result Sep 29 10:47:39 gcobb: Congrats. Sep 29 10:47:49 why surprised, you guys (barring young pup vdvsx lol) have lots of community experience Sep 29 10:48:51 zerojay: heh, yeah, idle's not so useful right now Sep 29 10:48:55 jonnylamb: I love you. Sep 29 10:49:10 Great. Sep 29 10:49:19 lol Sep 29 10:49:36 yeah, we owe the telepathy-butterfly etc guys a beer at summit :P Sep 29 10:49:59 yeah Sep 29 10:50:12 jonnylamb: Thanks for all your hard work on getting the plugins working on Maemo 5. Sep 29 10:50:58 lcuk: but other candidates who make more active contributions - I expected you to be on! Sep 29 10:51:15 jonnylamb: Quite some work to get those in the repo, I noticed ;) Sep 29 10:51:34 gcobb: You'd think. Hehe. Sep 29 10:51:41 im actually relieved - in part because of the costume you guys are gonna have to wear, and the workload lol - i can at least concentrate on code Sep 29 10:51:56 Yeah, I kind of feel that way a bit too. Sep 29 10:52:04 So, where are the elections results? Sep 29 10:52:20 X-Fade: Oh? Sep 29 10:52:40 RST38h: http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=7 Sep 29 10:53:23 Oops, forgot to vote Sep 29 10:53:25 Oh well Sep 29 10:53:27 RST38h, please add your name to the second table -> http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Accommodation Sep 29 10:54:26 RST38h, if you don't have a room booked in other hotel, of course Sep 29 10:57:24 jonnylamb: I noticed that sometimes a # and number is added to the end of my MSN address. Something unintentional? Sep 29 10:58:03 bufferfail Sep 29 10:58:06 RST38h, you are coming to the summit? :D cool Sep 29 10:58:06 er, butterfail Sep 29 11:04:11 Robot101: lol Sep 29 11:05:38 Actually, happens to everyone's MSN addresses. Sep 29 11:07:32 wjt: Anything in particular we should just accept as known bugs/behavior at this point? Sep 29 11:08:10 zerojay: that "foo@bar.com#1" issue, for starters :) Sep 29 11:09:01 Also, my MSN friends... I see them as online in Contacts, but if I click on their name to go to their profile, it just shows their "nickname" and doesn't actually list their MSN account as a part of their contact. Sep 29 11:09:32 i think that's because of the #1 thing Sep 29 11:09:52 Ok. Sep 29 11:10:09 Yeah, just seems to happen with MSN contacts. Sep 29 11:10:22 When using telepathy-butterfly. Sep 29 11:10:34 Suppose I always could just switch to haze. Sep 29 11:10:55 i'll check with an addressbook person :) Sep 29 11:11:42 No problem. Just trying to gather together a list of expected behavior so that you guys don't get deluged with the same "hey, wtf?" questions. Sep 29 11:11:58 fantastic :) Sep 29 11:12:48 wjt: the # crap should be filtered by butterfly though Sep 29 11:12:48 wjt: surely Sep 29 11:13:11 juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html Sep 29 11:13:14 Robot101: it should, but apparently the normalized id being different to the unnormalized id confuses the address book in genera Sep 29 11:13:19 right Sep 29 11:13:31 so fixing butterfly works around it Sep 29 11:14:19 Is there anything in particular you guys want tested or want people to bang on? Sep 29 11:15:18 wjt: yeah, one of those fix in both places things, I think :) Sep 29 11:15:43 Physical durability reports, including drop till it breaks tests. Sep 29 11:15:44 wjt: Didn't you and lfrb "discuss" this? Sep 29 11:15:48 But I suspect... :) Sep 29 11:19:12 hmm, anyone with a recent n900 able to add more than one APN btw? Sep 29 11:19:50 zerojay: not that i can think of Sep 29 11:21:27 afternoon Sep 29 11:21:32 afternoon lardman Sep 29 11:22:38 congrats to the outgoing & incoming council members, if any are lurking Sep 29 11:24:30 Time to make videogames. Back later. Sep 29 11:26:06 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/09/29/keepin-it-real-fake-part-ccxxxvi-nokia-n900-rip-shows-no-trad/ Sep 29 11:26:08 :) Sep 29 11:33:30 hmm, any recommendations for what to use to grab webpages (to a mem buffer) using C? Sep 29 11:33:33 libsoup? Sep 29 11:33:40 libcurl? Sep 29 11:33:50 seems to only want to grab to file Sep 29 11:34:01 or at least only that without hacking around# Sep 29 11:34:31 lardman: Open socket, request page, read buffer? :) Sep 29 11:34:46 well yeah there is that I guess Sep 29 11:34:47 :) Sep 29 11:36:10 that was the nice thing about Python, lots of convenience packages provided Sep 29 11:36:30 e.g. urllib Sep 29 11:40:07 hmm, lots of stuff on an Amazon page Sep 29 11:40:56 lardman: Don't they have a mobile version? Sep 29 11:41:23 dunno, will have a look see Sep 29 11:41:46 lardman, mmm libcurl will grab to memory Sep 29 11:41:48 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/lp.html Sep 29 11:41:49 i do i Sep 29 11:41:52 hold on Sep 29 11:41:55 ill dig itout Sep 29 11:41:58 cheers Sep 29 11:42:12 from looking at the api it seems to want a filehandle all the time Sep 29 11:42:21 though you can create your own write() fn Sep 29 11:44:00 X-Fade: good call, that will be much easier to parse Sep 29 11:44:28 lardman: system("wget") Sep 29 11:44:58 RST38h: that blocks though I guess? Sep 29 11:45:04 lardman, http://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/master/src/liqsketchedit.c#L22 Sep 29 11:45:09 lardman: guess so Sep 29 11:45:15 and either method can be put in a thread.. Sep 29 11:45:17 blob master :) Sep 29 11:45:27 yeah true Sep 29 11:45:28 lard man Sep 29 11:45:37 hmm, this whole "only one APN in fremantle" problem seems quite annoying Sep 29 11:45:38 lardman: you can of course try system("wget >file &"); then check on file Sep 29 11:45:52 I don't want any file access Sep 29 11:45:54 frals: How many APNs do you want? :) Sep 29 11:45:58 the function push_to_liqbase_net is the function which talks to webserver Sep 29 11:46:02 lardman: Ah, ok Sep 29 11:46:03 and i expect a response Sep 29 11:46:17 2 would be quite good as some operators have a separate one for MMS fetching Sep 29 11:46:17 which is done with buffer Sep 29 11:46:24 lardman: then you can try redirecting its stdout to your stdin Sep 29 11:46:25 cool, thanks lcuk Sep 29 11:46:28 or to a pipe Sep 29 11:46:36 RST38h: messy, but thanks Sep 29 11:46:43 frals: I can suggest a different solution =) Sep 29 11:46:51 hit me! Sep 29 11:47:11 frals: Create your own MMS server at Ovi and send all N900 MMSes through that server, at Internet pricing (rather than much higher MMS pricing) Sep 29 11:47:49 * RST38h laughs satanically Sep 29 11:47:59 Rawr Sep 29 11:48:03 CURLOPT_WRITEFUNCTION and CURLOPT_WRITEDATA are the important things Sep 29 11:48:10 Shame I got free MMSes with my operator ;-) Sep 29 11:48:26 RST38h, as long as ovi will push them to people around the world thats a viable option Sep 29 11:48:54 hello! Are you developping a maemo application creator, like qt creator ? Because maemo SDK is very difficult to use Sep 29 11:49:37 DrIDK, IDK! Sep 29 11:49:37 lcuk: MMS server is just a normal web srever Sep 29 11:49:46 lcuk: The "push" happens via SMS Sep 29 11:49:47 hopefully, but you still need to compile apps Sep 29 11:50:01 lcuk: A specially formatted SMS contains URL to the MMS server Sep 29 11:50:04 RST38h, so i can push photos to my gf over the web? Sep 29 11:50:21 lcuk: If you can send those special SMSes then yes Sep 29 11:50:36 * lardman looks at the summit agenda and plans his listening Sep 29 11:50:39 so it needs OVI servers sending out specially crafted SMSes to all providers in the world Sep 29 11:50:40 * Stskeeps wonders what insane human being is boiling cabbage outside Sep 29 11:50:47 lcuk: Operators require separate APN for the connection to their MMS servers for one simple reasons: to charge you x10 more for MMSes Sep 29 11:50:55 what is "UX panel"? Sep 29 11:51:03 UX = user experience Sep 29 11:51:04 user experience Sep 29 11:51:04 user experience panel? Sep 29 11:51:15 "UX panel" is where UX designers go to find work, I guess Sep 29 11:51:26 i think this and the other UI one should not happen concurrently Sep 29 11:51:26 ah, my engineering background showing through Sep 29 11:51:34 and they should follow from each other and build on it Sep 29 11:51:41 lcuk: ? Sep 29 11:52:40 DrIDK, to compile an application for maemo, it needs a maemo compiler - this normally happens in a dedicated environment - "the maemo SDK" - any maemo application creator must cater for this Sep 29 11:53:02 RST38h, normal web server? I thought it was WAP Sep 29 11:53:03 some strange people seem to think using an on device compiler works really nicely Sep 29 11:53:11 but they are dismissed as heretics ;) Sep 29 11:53:18 lol @ dneary's lighting presentation, just so everyone who comes on after him knows what they should have done :) Sep 29 11:53:21 Shadow: WAP is also delivered via normal HTTP Sep 29 11:53:36 Shadow: either as WML or as HDML document Sep 29 11:53:49 lol lardman Sep 29 11:54:11 RST38h, WAP over html isn't guaranteed to work Sep 29 11:54:12 * RST38h decides whether to dismiss lcuk for now or burn him at the stake screaming "HERETIC! HERETIC!" Sep 29 11:54:16 over http, I mean Sep 29 11:54:24 lcuk was robbed :( Sep 29 11:54:28 ShadowJK: Dunno, it is still HTTP Sep 29 11:54:30 not at all Sep 29 11:54:45 ShadowJK: maybe some weird transport protocol underneath of course Sep 29 11:54:50 yes Sep 29 11:55:03 ShadowJK: But it worked perfectly for me years ago, using generic Apache server Sep 29 11:55:23 ShadowJK: Configured to send HDML document with correct MIME type Sep 29 11:55:32 oh well, nearly every talk clashes with another one I also want to watch Sep 29 11:55:50 the last leg of transfer, from wapgw to phone, could be some wap specific shit, but the server giving the stuff to wap gw just works fine and dandy from plain http servers Sep 29 11:55:51 http://blip.tv/file/2658172 <- fremantle desktop under mer on a q5 with SW rendering Sep 29 11:55:58 with transitions limited Sep 29 11:56:08 Sts: Wow Sep 29 11:56:29 blurrycam galore, too Sep 29 11:56:37 cool :) Sep 29 11:56:38 Sts: use screencasts next time, please Sep 29 11:56:47 not got the 3D stuff up and running yet? Sep 29 11:56:48 RST38h: i think screencast will slow down the device to a halt Sep 29 11:57:06 do it in a dark room like a true nerd should Sep 29 11:57:20 Sts: gzip on the fly should be ok Sep 29 11:57:22 lardman: well i decided to try on q5 as it was my only mer devel device right now, and if it worked like crap on q5, it would work like crap on n8x0.. Sep 29 11:57:33 RST38h, I think the typical flow is apache serving hdml over http to an ISPs wap gateway server, which modifies/mangles your page and sends it over some monstrous WSP/WTP/WDP transport to the device.. Sep 29 11:57:47 ShadowJK: Not really Sep 29 11:57:48 the 3D hw is accessible in the q5 though isn't it? Sep 29 11:57:54 s/in/on Sep 29 11:57:55 there's some leaked libs now Sep 29 11:57:59 ShadowJK: Dunno about transport but pretty sure HDML comes through unmodified Sep 29 11:58:32 RST38h, I thought the modification is a key part of WAP, pages are modified for the devices? Sep 29 11:58:51 ShadowJK: Modified by YOU the website designer :))) Sep 29 11:59:04 ShadowJK: And of course it is a weakness, not a virtue Sep 29 11:59:20 This is why WAP lost to HTML Sep 29 11:59:32 WWW, not HTML, really Sep 29 11:59:40 Mind, most modern wap browsers know how to do HTTP over IP.. but that doesn't automatically mean your ISP/Operator gives you an environment where you actually can do http :/ Sep 29 11:59:42 some mms gateways does try to modify the content to match your handset, according to wikipedia (i think) Sep 29 11:59:50 They should have just used GOPHER for mobiles... Sep 29 12:00:09 Yes, Japan used a subset of HTML instead of inventing entirely new transports and markup languages.. much more successful Sep 29 12:00:16 frals <--- venturing into areas he shouldn't, really Sep 29 12:00:16 they hurried the mobile browsing by one generation of shitphones.. Sep 29 12:00:25 lardman: this would be very fast on n8x0 with GL drivers probably.. same on q5 Sep 29 12:00:27 ^^ Sep 29 12:00:39 that nobody could even use due to so high costs on using wap over gsm Sep 29 12:00:46 Stskeeps: yes, looks very nice, good work Sep 29 12:00:48 RIOT ON!.. Sep 29 12:00:54 Not that it is illegal or anything but working with MMS badly affects mental health Sep 29 12:01:43 ooh: "WAP 2.0[1] released in 2002 is a re-engineering of WAP using a cut-down version of XHTML with end-to-end HTTP (i.e., dropping the gateway and custom protocol suite used to communicate with it)." Sep 29 12:01:47 Yeah I'm thinking of WAP1 Sep 29 12:02:00 With its gateways and custom transport protocols Sep 29 12:02:05 I read somewhere that WAP2.0 isn't widely implemented, I might be wrong though Sep 29 12:02:22 Hi ! How do we become root in maemo SDK ? Sep 29 12:02:31 "A WAP gateway can be used in conjunction with WAP 2.0; however, in this scenario, it is used as a standard proxy server. The WAP gateway's role would then shift from one of translation to adding additional information to each request. This would be configured by the operator and could include telephone numbers, location, billing information, and handset information." Sep 29 12:03:10 WAP/WML/XHTML is being managed by a committee Sep 29 12:03:26 So you can expect all kinds of "new" protocols from them over years, just ignore them Sep 29 12:04:16 god this whole MMS business is messy :P Sep 29 12:04:56 aha, n900 back again to oct 29 Sep 29 12:04:59 ok, I got it Sep 29 12:05:07 on the morning, it's planned for oct 22 Sep 29 12:05:13 on the afternoon, for oct 29 Sep 29 12:05:43 hmm.. what's the black squaer next to camera button on n900? Sep 29 12:05:55 IR? Sep 29 12:06:05 frals, that swhy discussion and collaboration is needed. its hard work and not the sort of thing 1 person can slot in in an afternoon Sep 29 12:06:13 or brightness sensor? Sep 29 12:06:16 that's what i thought first.. but IR is a bit 90's Sep 29 12:06:25 i believe its ir Sep 29 12:06:27 "Most controversial, especially for many from the IP side, was the design of WAP over IP. WAP's transmission layer protocol, WTP, uses its own retransmission mechanisms over UDP to attempt to solve the problem of the inadequacy of TCP over high packet loss networks." Sep 29 12:06:31 lcuk: yeah, deffo Sep 29 12:06:33 Dear god, not even standard TCP Sep 29 12:07:04 "WAP Push is specified on top of WDP; as such, it can be delivered over any WDP-supported bearer, such as GPRS or SMS.[9] In most GSM networks there are a wide range of modified processors, but GPRS activation from the network is not generally supported, so WAP Push messages have to be delivered on top of the SMS bearer." Sep 29 12:07:07 nano-pigeons Sep 29 12:07:38 * frals scratches head Sep 29 12:07:44 silently sent out from your device (through a little inconspicuous black flap on the front near the camera button) connect to the pigeon coops nearby Sep 29 12:07:52 ShadowJK: Well, WTP is SMS-based Sep 29 12:07:55 and send your data Sep 29 12:08:01 RST38h, no it can run on anything Sep 29 12:08:06 ShadowJK: Breaks data into SMSes and sends them, at SMS prices Sep 29 12:08:14 ShadowJK: WAP can Sep 29 12:08:28 ShadowJK: WTP is cellular specific though Sep 29 12:08:53 no, oops, WTP runs on top of WDP Sep 29 12:08:55 ShadowJK: So, you have got HDML/WML-on-top-of-HTTP-on-top-of-WTP-on-top-of-SMS Sep 29 12:08:58 anyone got any clue what will make a n810 screen need recalibration every 5 mintues or so besides the screen is going dead? Sep 29 12:09:07 ShadowJK: Ok, include WDP in the middle Sep 29 12:09:24 ShadowJK: Anyways, you can probably see now why I urged frals not to go there Sep 29 12:09:35 Andrew: lint? Sep 29 12:10:15 its not fun if its easy, RST38h! ;) Sep 29 12:10:29 RST38h, I look a can of compressed air and tried to clean aroun edge of screen without taking it apart not sure if it is lint Sep 29 12:10:43 So it looks like it's WSP (modified http) - WTP (custom tcp-ish implementation) - WDP (is same as UDP when over IP) - Sep 29 12:10:47 frals: When you get down to binary SMS encoding, I will look at you. Sep 29 12:11:03 AFB are you running from flash or SD card? Sep 29 12:11:41 AndrewFBlack: taking it apart may be an option.. takes a torx screwdriver but that's about it Sep 29 12:11:42 :D Sep 29 12:11:51 frals: I guess you have some reading? http://www.wapforum.org/what/technical_1_1.htm Sep 29 12:12:02 AndrewFBlack are you running from flash or SD card? Sep 29 12:12:04 penguinbait, flash but I have mer installed on sd card but screen problem is with both Sep 29 12:12:15 bummer Sep 29 12:12:25 ooh: http://www.wapforum.org/what/technical.htm Sep 29 12:12:33 ShadowJK: gonna read through the wap 1.2 as this is where WAP Push was added, and as I understand WAP Push is needed for MMS isnt it? Sep 29 12:12:44 I thought maybe it was just the OS messing up Sep 29 12:12:56 Yeah I think so, but there's a document on MMS on that second link Sep 29 12:13:01 Heh, some of us lived through all the "WAP is crap" stuff. Some of the engineering decisions were good (WAP push over SMS, creation of WTP). Some were not so good (WML). Sep 29 12:13:09 Stskeeps, thats going to be my next option I have a real bad deap scratch I was wondering if that could cause it but the scratch has been there a long time and problem just started Sep 29 12:13:21 Somewhere on the internet you will even find my WML home page, if you search hard enough! Sep 29 12:13:25 Plus, what if the operator uses wap1.x and not wap2 for mms, etc :/ Sep 29 12:13:30 ShadowJK: cool, ill do some reading... ^^ Sep 29 12:13:48 i would guess that wtp on top of sms is a last resort when everything else fails... Sep 29 12:13:54 Luckily my first phone with GPRS could eat html2 webpages, so I never made any WML :) Sep 29 12:13:58 I have a coupe deep scratches in a n800 its annoying, but never caused an actually problem Sep 29 12:14:07 I notice some times its like it doens't register my clicks at all as well Sep 29 12:14:26 ShadowJK: My first phone could only parse HDML Sep 29 12:14:41 heh Sep 29 12:14:42 gcobb: wml, and "payment by the min" on non-gprs phones basically tainted all future wap talk... Sep 29 12:14:50 my first phone didn't have any wap at all :) Sep 29 12:14:54 ShadowJK: Good for it too, though, as WML ihas been severely overengineered by the committee Sep 29 12:15:04 And: if it is scratched badly enought htat the layer is deformed, and contacts the screen when untouched, that will do that Sep 29 12:15:16 i recall testing wap on a old siemens back when it had two colors, black and white ;) Sep 29 12:15:23 t_s_o, especially when people with web pages expected you to dial their own modem pool and pay premium rates... that was even bigger wtf Sep 29 12:15:34 ShadowJK: Well we bought HDML capable phone for business, as I implemented mobile webmail on it Sep 29 12:15:40 * lcuk has an n810 that is completely insensitive to finger touch - it works with stylus tho Sep 29 12:15:42 ShadowJK: Long, LONG time before gmail :) Sep 29 12:15:44 ShadowJK: dont think i have ever seen that... Sep 29 12:15:58 ShadowJK: are you able to dl any of the docs from wapforum? im getting a user/pass prompt Sep 29 12:16:05 frade, heh I didn't try Sep 29 12:16:07 ShadowJK, those were dodgy pron attacks Sep 29 12:16:22 funny thing was that even back with the b/w lcd screens, someone found a way to deliver porn by wap :P Sep 29 12:16:32 frals, yeah same Sep 29 12:16:48 lcuk, no it was legitimate sites Sep 29 12:16:56 then you have to register with wapforum to get at the docs Sep 29 12:17:03 yikes ShadowJK Sep 29 12:17:12 ah those tricks, the custom dailers, from back in the modem age, no wonder i didnt recall it... Sep 29 12:17:39 lcuk, for example news sites that had proper HTML versions, but expected users to pay premium rates per the minute for mobile access Sep 29 12:17:53 perfectly normal Sep 29 12:18:11 i think i ones had a dialer trying to forcibly hijack my connection, but as i was on isdn at the time, it could not make head or tail of the setup ;) Sep 29 12:18:25 After GPRS came they then made their WML sites accessible via internet, and used a different way of trying to charge per page instead Sep 29 12:19:45 and I guess foreca is still doing it with their widget :-) Sep 29 12:19:53 hehe Sep 29 12:20:13 hmm, wonder how many operators have infrastructure that doesnt support wap2.0 Sep 29 12:20:47 dunno. theres gotta be some totally closed garden shithole operators still left Sep 29 12:21:01 most of them in the US ;) Sep 29 12:21:51 * RST38h imagines how software engineers working for cell operators feel Sep 29 12:22:13 Must feel like perpetual attempts to make a soup out of worn shoes Sep 29 12:22:32 * ShadowJK interned with a phone operator once Sep 29 12:22:45 Every feature should be as convoluted as possible or it is not good enough Sep 29 12:22:52 just noticed with only around 300 people voting in council election it would be easy to fix the election Sep 29 12:23:03 but I was mostly "whoah are those vaccuum tubes" - "dude what's with all these used wires in a pile? can I have them?" Sep 29 12:23:08 * RST38h still has not seen election results Sep 29 12:23:09 AndrewFBlack: "easy"? Sep 29 12:23:22 ShadowJK: Heh, how fmailiar Sep 29 12:23:24 someon could start now creating new accounts and building just a little karma on each then vote fo them selfs on all those accounts Sep 29 12:23:35 AndrewFBlack: demanding a recount? :) Sep 29 12:23:39 Andrew: need to have account for at least 3 months Sep 29 12:24:06 Stskeeps, no i reall was just trying something by running this time seeing how many votes I could get by just saying hey I'm running and then saying nothig else about it Sep 29 12:24:29 RST38h, if the person created the accounts now he could do it by next election Sep 29 12:24:40 AndrewFBlack: i thought you had gone over to the fruity side Sep 29 12:25:10 Also, the last time they threw out anything at their central exchange was when they did analog->digital. Each subsequent generation of digital equipment occupied less than half the space of the previous generation, which was already magnitudes smaller than the analog system before, so their machine room was a trip through history :-) Sep 29 12:25:54 * SpeedEvil gets ready for the massive outages in 2020, when phone exchanges start blowing away as people open doors. Sep 29 12:25:54 Shadow: They never removed anything? Sep 29 12:25:56 t_s_o, maybe next time I will run for real and put some effort into it Sep 29 12:26:10 ShadowJK: basically, install new stuff as failover for old stuff, then remove old stuff at eventual fail and move in newer stuff, repeat as needed? Sep 29 12:26:40 Shadow: And in the very middle, there was a shining blue vat with a pulsating brain connected to the exchange with golden wires? Sep 29 12:26:47 t_s_o, no they just couldn't be bothered to bring in the heavy cranes to rmeove the old shit Sep 29 12:27:01 * frals goes to town on: "Wireless Application Protocol Multimedia Messaging Service Client Transactions Specification" Sep 29 12:27:01 this document looks like fun! Sep 29 12:27:06 the hard part about fixing the election for you to win is coming up with 50 new name I don't think andrewfblack01, andrewfblack02 would work lol Sep 29 12:27:09 ah, dinos :D Sep 29 12:27:40 i recall reading when a norwegian university where giving away some old servers, they recommended you bring 3-4 big friends, and strong carrying straps ;) Sep 29 12:28:01 Plus they had used some of the spare space to set up an office, and door in the new drywall was too small to even get a programming terminal through... Sep 29 12:28:18 heh, screwdriver time ;) Sep 29 12:28:55 That terminal looked awesome. The chair, "table", keyboard and screen was one huge integrated unit Sep 29 12:29:14 btw, that sounds almost like a tv practical joke. get a big box that barely fits, delivered. then while distracting crew to another room swap the box to one that just bare do not fit ;) Sep 29 12:29:45 it all fits if you have a chainsaw Sep 29 12:30:13 and a jackhammer for the concrete ;) Sep 29 12:31:06 someone asked me about using fremantle icons on my fremantle theme for diablo, icons are closed source right Sep 29 12:31:29 AndrewFBlack: you can probably use Meizirkki's freemantle-icons Sep 29 12:31:44 AndrewFBlack: no, not closed source, copyrighted yes :) Sep 29 12:32:10 * lardman eats bacon Sep 29 12:32:35 X-Fade, so I wouldn't be able to release them if I got a copy of them right Sep 29 12:32:46 AndrewFBlack: Nope Sep 29 12:33:08 ask for permission? Sep 29 12:33:25 AndrewFBlack: It is the Ovi icon set IIRC. Sep 29 12:33:40 AndrewFBlack: http://conversations.nokia.com/2008/09/09/new-one-size-fits-all-ovi-icons/ Sep 29 12:35:47 we just use oxygen icons instead Sep 29 12:37:11 Andrew: Why use default icons? They are kinda ugly (well some) Sep 29 12:37:44 RST38h, some people asked about me using them so I thought would ask Sep 29 12:38:07 I think the theme looks cool even with diablos icons Sep 29 12:39:29 Using diablo icons has the same problem. Sep 29 12:41:41 X-Fade, I don't use the diablo icons they are already there the theme is for diablo :) Sep 29 12:43:04 AndrewFBlack: Well then it not a problem. As long as you don't redistribute them :) Sep 29 12:46:26 The Kafka-esque Nightmare of Palm App Submission Sep 29 12:46:29 (C)Slashdot Sep 29 12:46:43 RST38h: maemo.org extras starts looking more and more sane as time goes by Sep 29 12:46:51 Looks like phone manufacturers just LOVE doing this Sep 29 12:46:57 Sts: Sadly, yes Sep 29 12:47:18 it never looked not-sane to me.. :-) Sep 29 12:47:20 Sts: But wait, the fremantle Extras is a step toward Kafka Sep 29 12:47:34 Hey, I take offense to that! Sep 29 12:47:38 is femantle extras different? Sep 29 12:48:16 oh well, as long as it isn't like on Symbian where you have to pay to maek your software runnable Sep 29 12:49:17 X-Fade: well, the three-layered submission system, you know... Sep 29 12:49:53 * RST38h is pretty satisfied with the fact that Extras has been effectively replaced with Extras-testing for power users Sep 29 12:50:24 RST38h: But at least you have that. And don't have to use the minefield. Sep 29 12:50:55 X-Fade: Diablo extras feels pretty safe Sep 29 12:51:06 X-Fade: Extras-devel is a different story of course Sep 29 12:51:09 RST38h: Well, it is not. Sep 29 12:51:27 RST38h: About 20% can not be installed and can certainly not be rebuilt. Sep 29 12:51:33 so like Sep 29 12:51:49 How would one get something that doesn't build successful with sb toolchain into extras? Sep 29 12:51:53 X-Fade: Cannot be rebuilt is ok as far as I am conerned, cannot be installed is worse Sep 29 12:52:08 could you like make a newer gcc package and build-dep that? ;D Sep 29 12:52:14 SpeedEvil: i already have a data plan so i don't need/want to get another one just for the n900 Sep 29 12:52:16 X-Fade: But I define "minefield" as "you install an app from there and it screws up your system" Sep 29 12:52:26 X-Fade: Diablo Extras is pretty safe in this sense Sep 29 12:52:30 RST38h: Well, i can do that too. Sep 29 12:52:46 RST38h: As you can promote your app without anybody knowing or checking. Sep 29 12:52:54 ShadowJK: You submit to non-free Sep 29 12:52:58 RST38h: And there is no dependency checking either. Sep 29 12:53:15 ShadowJK: This is the only practical way at the moment, although I agree it is not exactyly what you are trying to do Sep 29 12:53:31 X-Fade: I guess we have just got mostly sane develoepers then Sep 29 12:54:19 It's kinda funny. Diablo's toolchain doesn't build VFP code, and Fremantle's toolchain doesn't build NEON :-) Sep 29 12:54:47 ShadowJK: If you get 2009q1 toolchain it will build Neon Sep 29 12:54:57 yeah probably Sep 29 12:55:57 there's no real benefit from compiling for neon, afaik. Sep 29 12:56:21 well, depends... Sep 29 12:56:21 kulve, handwritten neon? Sep 29 12:56:37 the neon pipeline flush is certainly going to be a disaster Sep 29 12:56:51 You have got 13+10 steps Sep 29 12:56:58 handwritten neon is a great thing but the compiler generated neon isnt' Sep 29 12:57:14 Someone was trying to compile a recent MPlayer and gas didn't recognize the neon Sep 29 12:57:21 kulve: is it fundamental or should we just wait for a better gcc backend? Sep 29 12:57:48 ShadowJK: doesn't build vfp? Sep 29 12:58:01 lardman, doesn't recognize all vfp opcodes Sep 29 12:58:02 you sure? Sep 29 12:58:05 RST38h: I don't know. I guess it's just something that the compiler can't ever do well. Like it's still beneficial to hand write armv5/6 asm where good performance is needed Sep 29 12:58:09 ah ok, asm you mean? Sep 29 12:58:14 yeah Sep 29 12:58:17 mnemonics Sep 29 12:58:26 kulve: with arm assembly I can tellyou why Sep 29 12:58:32 kulve: it is really simple ;) Sep 29 12:58:47 lardman, vpush for example Sep 29 12:59:25 kulve: GCC will optimize your code with respect to the CPU pipeline. It WILL NOT take memory thoroughput into account Sep 29 12:59:25 ShadowJK: have not looked at VFP asm at all, thought you were also meaning from C Sep 29 12:59:50 kulve: In most ARM-based SoCs though, memory is the real killer Sep 29 13:00:12 the fremantle 2007q3 compiles neon fine with -mfpu=neon I guess? Sep 29 13:00:13 kulve: Once you miss cache, it is 32 reads at 166MHz max Sep 29 13:00:54 kulve: Actually, I am wrong Sep 29 13:01:10 There was someone on t.m.o who tried to compile latest MPlayer for fremantle, and gas didn't recognize all of the neon Sep 29 13:01:13 kulve: 8 clocks to set address then 8x32bits for the data Sep 29 13:01:40 ShadowJK: I compiled ffmpeg and it do compile for NEON with proper gcc options Sep 29 13:01:41 kulve: If you are unlucky to have 16bit data bus, it is 8+8*2=24 SDRAM clocks Sep 29 13:01:59 hm Sep 29 13:02:23 maybe he was missing -mfpu=neon... Sep 29 13:02:27 Which (with CPU at 400MHz) equals to 24*400/166=58 clocks Sep 29 13:02:44 kulve: In other words, you are screwed Sep 29 13:02:56 And compiler is NOT gonna help you Sep 29 13:03:34 Handwritten solution is to stick as many variables into ARM registers as possible, use each register for multiple variables and shift - gcc can't do that Sep 29 13:03:49 gcc's vectorizer doesn't work nicely for any CPU arch so I wouldn't expect it to work nicely for neon anytime this century :) Sep 29 13:06:28 http://hardwarebug.org/2008/11/28/codesourcery-fails-again/ Sep 29 13:07:39 Anyone interesting in community widgets could have a look at the color selector and font selector in my countdown-home package Sep 29 13:08:04 Anyone interested in giving my countdown-home package karma in extras-testing would be welcome :) Sep 29 13:08:20 "CodeSourcery insist they subject every compiler release to an extensive test suite. Evidently it does not extend to cover the right shift operator." Sep 29 13:08:23 hah Sep 29 13:09:16 hehe Sep 29 13:09:21 hi. i'm trying to become root in mer. when i type 'sudo su -' i just get 'user user is not allowed to execute '/bin/su -' as root' Sep 29 13:09:30 what's wrong? Sep 29 13:10:24 i forgot. i use easy mer on my n800 with diablo Sep 29 13:11:34 ShadowJK: I am sure they do test it Sep 29 13:12:19 ShadowJK: But catching all bugs like this is kinda difficult, there are millions of them possible Sep 29 13:14:15 I guess atleast codesourcery fixes some of them Sep 29 13:25:56 DarwinSurvivor: what was your particular bid to rid the gene pool? Sep 29 13:26:03 of have you just come back from Oz? Sep 29 13:26:07 s/of/or Sep 29 13:26:26 none really, just a "i am what is left after darwin filtered the rest" Sep 29 13:26:33 ah, ok Sep 29 13:26:44 i get a LOT of people asking that....... Sep 29 13:26:45 Darwin does nto filter, he accepts sacrifices Sep 29 13:26:49 * lardman was looking forward to more stories of fireworks and helium ballons ;) Sep 29 13:26:51 lol Sep 29 13:27:04 lardman: well, there have been a few close calls Sep 29 13:27:26 but nothing specific to warrant the name Sep 29 13:27:35 fair enough :) Sep 29 13:28:26 hey, does anybody here know if they are planning on releasing maemo5 for the n810? I know it lacks opengl support, but some of the other stuff is pretty cool Sep 29 13:28:37 Mer Sep 29 13:28:42 ~mer Sep 29 13:28:43 i heard mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Sep 29 13:30:11 even without gl support it might actually work for some bits, heh Sep 29 13:31:27 Stskeeps: is there a hw opengl implementation for the Q5? Sep 29 13:31:38 or just the low-level access libs/headers? Sep 29 13:32:28 lardman: if we ignore the balant legal problems, open source kernel driver, closed source and slightly unknown of licensing GLES libs Sep 29 13:33:30 ah ok, so they do exsit then Sep 29 13:36:09 how can i become root in easy mer? i get just 'user user is not allowed to execute '/bin/su -' as root' Sep 29 13:54:53 gm ;) Sep 29 13:55:31 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=2869 <- ramzez now has a separate package for init scripts, so you can only install the ramzez-init package to get all the load-on-reboot functionality :) Sep 29 13:56:22 comes with a control panel? Sep 29 13:57:53 http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-first-details-of-microsofts-secret-tablet Sep 29 13:58:02 sts, how about running mer on this? Sep 29 13:58:10 * Stskeeps looks Sep 29 13:58:12 Stskeeps: nope Sep 29 13:58:52 RST38h: could be interesting Sep 29 13:59:44 LoCusF: we have a task open for ramzswap in Mer if you're bored, btw :) Sep 29 14:01:04 VDVsx: congrats on council Sep 29 14:01:23 Stskeeps, thanks :) Sep 29 14:03:49 interesting, do you get the mobile version of gizmodo from your tablet? Sep 29 14:03:57 VDVsx: congrats :) Sep 29 14:05:18 lardman, thanks ;) Sep 29 14:06:23 hmm, can't watch that video on device, connection too slow Sep 29 14:09:26 lcuk: ping Sep 29 14:11:03 looks very pretty that interface Sep 29 14:11:40 yeah simon Sep 29 14:11:57 seen the ui for that M$ Courier tablet? Sep 29 14:14:02 humm, multi-touch + handwrite o_0 Sep 29 14:14:40 well yeah, who knows if it would actually work, but some of the ideas are quite cool, wouldn't want lcuk to get bored Sep 29 14:15:32 not seen video Sep 29 14:15:38 but is this the folding one Sep 29 14:15:43 yep Sep 29 14:15:55 with a stylus i would be afraid to just drop stylus in the fold and close lid Sep 29 14:16:15 like you do with a book ;) except with excessive breaking noises Sep 29 14:16:46 have to design the hinge accordingly, use that to store the stylus Sep 29 14:17:28 heh Sep 29 14:18:06 ive got a load of code relating to cooperatively networking local tablets in motion Sep 29 14:18:39 id love to have things like graphic pads with the tools and colors on on tablet and the drawing on another :) Sep 29 14:18:47 didn't see that in the Courier video, but didn't watch it all Sep 29 14:19:22 lcuk: Come clean. Sep 29 14:19:36 lcuk: This is really a cunning plan to get given 6 n900s, and ebay 5 of them. Sep 29 14:19:37 How can I install apps on maemo(N810) directly to memory card? I can just to install apps using the internal memory, but I won't this, I wanna install on the memory card, because the internal memory is ver small. Sep 29 14:20:03 SpeedEvil, nahhh i have plans for many more than 6 :) Sep 29 14:20:11 whether they become reality is a different issue :P Sep 29 14:20:41 SpeedEvil, ive already seen what happens when i get 3 n900s together Sep 29 14:20:55 what's that? Sep 29 14:20:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 if you are interested Sep 29 14:21:09 3 n900 together: imagine every molecule of your body ceasing to exist and exploding at light speed. Sep 29 14:21:19 i even have a plan for the code to do it properly too Sep 29 14:21:51 well it is very pretty, but what about being able to cooperatively edit a doc, throw it over to another device, etc.? Sep 29 14:22:15 how do the devices know their positions, so that the streamlines join up? Sep 29 14:22:20 very accurate GPS? ;) Sep 29 14:23:26 black helicopters? Sep 29 14:23:54 no, they haven't come for me yet Sep 29 14:23:56 ;) Sep 29 14:23:58 lardman, coop editing - the whole set of network devices need to know the whole "weather map" Sep 29 14:24:16 so when i draw on one it must pass details to the others Sep 29 14:24:24 once the weather map is shared, the flow will work Sep 29 14:24:28 but how does it know its position rel to the others? Sep 29 14:24:37 position within a grid is something ive tried a few things Sep 29 14:24:46 firstly - echo sounding Sep 29 14:24:51 1 mic, 2 speaksers Sep 29 14:24:51 I guess you could use the cameras to work out position Sep 29 14:26:35 yeah simon Sep 29 14:26:46 the barcode test can take a photo Sep 29 14:26:50 lcuk, ah, another pushn900 video featuring you (briefly this time) ;) Sep 29 14:26:52 identify location and scale of a barcode Sep 29 14:26:57 and know which window it should use Sep 29 14:27:06 ugh i still feel like shit Sep 29 14:27:19 i still dont know why i dropped off the net Sep 29 14:27:24 its kinda unnerving Sep 29 14:28:10 lardman, i half considered using the same windowing technique and location stuff to show liqbase in the same super window Sep 29 14:28:17 with everything running at fullspeed Sep 29 14:28:51 it would need data sharing tho Sep 29 14:29:35 I like the idea, and I think being able to share easily over a private liq network would be quite cool Sep 29 14:29:56 but make it something useful, like calendars, or sketches, or dunno, something Sep 29 14:30:12 Stskeeps: cools I'll check it out Sep 29 14:30:20 I do like the streaming stuff, looks cool, but has only limited usefulness Sep 29 14:30:37 lardman, well liqbase.net has the upload caps and thats the principle reason Sep 29 14:30:43 its all public tho atm Sep 29 14:31:02 but i *WILL* have it on my kitchen wall soon :) Sep 29 14:31:06 :) Sep 29 14:32:10 best thing now is because it runs well on n810 it is gonna be reasonably cheap to allow. worst thing is my rubbish code Sep 29 14:32:48 would be very cool if everyone at the summit, no matter which hw (well not 770 perhaps) could run the same app and do something cooperativelty Sep 29 14:33:53 lardman my words exactly :) (tho 770 is totally unknown and probably wouldnt right now Sep 29 14:43:52 bbl Sep 29 14:45:09 qwerty12: any impressions about hildon status area in fremantle yet? Sep 29 14:45:42 What about it? Sep 29 14:46:03 well, API wise, if it's insane or 'as simple' as the old api Sep 29 14:46:35 Lol, why would you expect me to know? I've never written shit in my life :) Sep 29 14:47:12 hehe, i wouldn't say so but hey ;) Sep 29 14:47:38 rkirti: http://blip.tv/file/2658172 Sep 29 14:48:32 blah Sep 29 14:49:33 X-Fade: Dunno if it's just me, but the Packages interface appears to be down Sep 29 14:49:44 qwerty12: reload ;) Sep 29 14:50:12 qwerty12: loading some changes.. Sep 29 14:50:15 Mmm, yeah, looking a bit better but I wouldn't call it "fixed" ;) Sep 29 14:50:32 qwerty12: still loading;) Sep 29 14:51:01 Too slow ;P Sep 29 14:51:35 anybody here running fbsd? Sep 29 14:51:39 was wondering how well the zfs support was Sep 29 14:51:41 qwerty12: ok, I messed up ;) Sep 29 14:52:01 X-Fade: :p Sep 29 14:52:48 macer: how come? Sep 29 14:53:26 qwerty12: fixed Sep 29 14:53:40 Thanks Sep 29 14:54:43 qwerty12: Although the builds block on the sidebar has the weirdest order imaginable ;) Sep 29 14:55:46 Don't worry: It's maemo.org, what's new? ;P Sep 29 14:55:48 * qwerty12 ducks Sep 29 14:57:56 X-Fade, is it linked to the photos on front page of maemo.org by any chance :P Sep 29 14:59:32 To be fair, his username is "lardman". I certainly wouldn't try shifting him off the front page Sep 29 15:00:18 yeah, but he should be animated lol Sep 29 15:02:26 kirma: i was going to try to find out what is wrong with my server Sep 29 15:02:31 for some reason it keeps freezing up without any clues Sep 29 15:02:54 so i am going to clean it out very well soon by taking it apart.. sand down the cpus and add new thermal compound and see if that's the problem Sep 29 15:03:11 otherwise i was going to swap opensolaris for fbsd if the zfs support is there so i don't lose my zfs stuff Sep 29 15:05:17 macer - mmm just stability issues? the thermal goop should fill in the gaps and usually sanding causes bigger gaps unless you are on about proper lapping and polishing - the quick solution to see if its the cpu freq is to underclock ;) Sep 29 15:05:21 just so you know Sep 29 15:05:33 then if it works underclocking.. Sep 29 15:05:43 * lcuk2 slaps lcuk3 Sep 29 15:06:08 I deserved that fo sure Sep 29 15:06:15 many el coqs here today! Sep 29 15:07:48 whats up? Sep 29 15:07:54 not much, you Sep 29 15:08:03 nothing here? Sep 29 15:08:26 Macer: Make sure to replace the power supply, at least temporarily and see if your system is stable again. I recently had a system where I systematically exchanged all components (except the power supply) and nothing helped. Then I changed the power supply and it worked again. Sep 29 15:09:13 <-- shoots lcuk5 Sep 29 15:09:16 doh Sep 29 15:09:45 <-- shoots lcuk3 Sep 29 15:09:56 lcuk2, lcuk3, lcuk4, lcuk5, o_O Sep 29 15:10:09 Don't forget me! Sep 29 15:10:15 lcuk*: You know the "ghost" command? ;) Sep 29 15:10:42 -NickServ- You may not ghost yourself. Sep 29 15:10:54 you seriously need to get some healthier hobbies Sep 29 15:10:59 I suggest macrame Sep 29 15:11:00 slonopotamus: give me your password, I'll do it for you Sep 29 15:11:04 or basket weaving Sep 29 15:11:26 my password is liqelsie Sep 29 15:12:12 :D Sep 29 15:15:03 lcuk2: yeah. i have thermal compound on it Sep 29 15:15:06 well.. them Sep 29 15:15:18 mihu: that sounds possible. even though i have a 750W psu Sep 29 15:15:26 it might actually need a larger one Sep 29 15:15:42 http://www.coffeeshop.freeuk.com/ Sep 29 15:16:24 penguinbait: haha. they call them coffee shops? :) Sep 29 15:16:52 i'm curious.. if you go to the NL and smoke pot. then come back and pop positive on a pee test at work and get fired. can you fight it? :) Sep 29 15:17:09 Macer: well, depends where you live Sep 29 15:17:14 i mean it isn't like you broke any laws Sep 29 15:17:15 in the US Sep 29 15:17:21 Macer: in finland they'd have to suspect you to have been high at work Sep 29 15:17:33 glass__: it is probably the same here Sep 29 15:17:41 they seriously need to make a time test for marijuana Sep 29 15:17:48 Macer: As you probably know, the power supply outputs different power rails. If just one of these rails outputs flaky voltages, then you're screwed. And it's really hard to find that out without really watching the rails. But who does it? Sep 29 15:17:54 something like an alcohol breath test Sep 29 15:18:25 you mean a coffee test? Sep 29 15:18:32 mihu: i've done that sometimes. but i knew i was straining and overclocking felt like fun then Sep 29 15:19:00 mihu: yeah. i will probably guy a new psu just to check. maybe a GW one just to make sure. i am going ot need one soon anyways when i build my retard box with its 8GPUS and 4CPUs just for gaming :) haha Sep 29 15:19:12 i haven't had a gaming box in a long time Sep 29 15:19:20 want to see what's out there nowadays Sep 29 15:19:25 penguinbait: haha Sep 29 15:19:36 isn't caffine illegal in certain concentrations? Sep 29 15:19:48 caffine gets you pretty messed up from what i've heard if you take it concentrated Sep 29 15:19:50 hmm. can't think of anywhere where it would be Sep 29 15:19:52 no idea Macer? Sep 29 15:20:00 <<< the real lcuk Sep 29 15:20:02 penguinbait: someone has to start marketing it ;) Sep 29 15:20:02 you can buy cafeine pills over here in finland anyways Sep 29 15:20:06 you gits! Sep 29 15:20:12 glass__: they are probably still very cut Sep 29 15:20:19 like 1% caffine Sep 29 15:20:20 Macer: well. take more then Sep 29 15:20:29 <<< lcuk's favourite hobby Sep 29 15:20:35 i think they put toxins in caffine pills so you can't pop them like that Sep 29 15:20:36 :) Sep 29 15:20:46 Macer: about the same as in a cup of coffee for one pill. pharmasies sell them Sep 29 15:20:48 just like ethanol to run cars Sep 29 15:20:51 good to have such a flexible spin :) Sep 29 15:20:56 spine Sep 29 15:21:02 if you could drink car ethanol. people would be filling up kegs at the gas station Sep 29 15:21:04 Macer: the energy pills etc you can buy in grocery stores in finland suck big time and have pretty much nothing Sep 29 15:21:32 well you can drink a lot of stuff. ask finnish boozers heehee... Sep 29 15:21:39 heh Sep 29 15:21:54 well. i'm just saying. ethanol for cars is just highly concentrated drinking alcohol Sep 29 15:22:06 moonshine with added toxins so people can't drink it Sep 29 15:22:14 and well, they'd drink it here, if it didn't have any additive to make it foul Sep 29 15:22:31 glass__: makes you wonder why people haven't started distilling it ;) Sep 29 15:22:35 theres some urban legend tricks to it Sep 29 15:22:44 all it would take is a coil and maybe some vaccum to bring the pressure down Sep 29 15:22:52 cigarette's are banned at the coffee houses, hahaha Sep 29 15:23:02 Macer: because methanol evaporates at lower temperatures Sep 29 15:23:08 penguinbait: don't want to catch cancer from the coffee house ;) Sep 29 15:23:11 well if you got a still it's better to make your own moonshine from some cheap old bread or whatever Sep 29 15:23:33 glass__: fruit works better :) Sep 29 15:23:36 * glass__ has drank genuine moonshine Sep 29 15:23:54 Macer: fruit is more expensive. you think we got fruit in finland in trees :D (well, apart from apples) Sep 29 15:23:58 coconut works great.. as does sugar cane Sep 29 15:24:03 sugar cane is great Sep 29 15:24:05 apples work too though :) Sep 29 15:24:24 but the point with making moonshine is that you can use any crap for the mash(?) Sep 29 15:24:39 i've never heard of using bread Sep 29 15:25:06 bread is expensive now Sep 29 15:25:22 well, stale bread. Sep 29 15:25:26 auntie Miia's cooking corner Sep 29 15:25:31 heh Sep 29 15:25:35 you know, stuff you can go take out from a grocery stores garbage bins Sep 29 15:25:36 take orange juice cartons and freeze them Sep 29 15:25:44 then let them melt to a bucket Sep 29 15:25:50 cover, let bubble, enjoy Sep 29 15:25:51 vankilakilju Sep 29 15:26:07 Myrtti: hooch sucks :) Sep 29 15:26:19 oranges are for winos Sep 29 15:26:23 Macer: distillation is optional Sep 29 15:26:27 and prison whores Sep 29 15:26:50 Macer: prison hooch type of stuff is somewhat popular among teens in finland Sep 29 15:26:57 glass__: really? Sep 29 15:27:01 they call it MD 20/20 here :) Sep 29 15:27:03 haha Sep 29 15:27:08 for $5 you can get fucked up Sep 29 15:27:16 Macer: really. and last time i saw stuff that wasnt cleared even drank was like 1.5weeks ago Sep 29 15:27:39 when I was 13 some of the boys in my class had a lunch break hobby of going to the nearby mall and buying super yeast... Sep 29 15:27:41 Macer: punk kids make it from milk Sep 29 15:27:46 "mehukatti sanoo pulpul" Sep 29 15:27:53 milk? Sep 29 15:27:54 macer: regarding zfs... well, not such an expert I'd be much of help. but I still wouldn't suggest using zfs on i386 (vs. amd64) Sep 29 15:27:56 ok that's gross Sep 29 15:28:13 we had a store(it still is there) at valkeakoski where you could buy porno, cd's, console games and homewine equipment Sep 29 15:28:15 kirma: using 2 1.8GHz opertons Sep 29 15:28:18 opterons Sep 29 15:28:32 socket 940. they're amd64s Sep 29 15:28:42 i use opensolaris on it now Sep 29 15:28:50 but that is the last ditch effort Sep 29 15:28:51 ah well Sep 29 15:28:53 if it isn't hardware Sep 29 15:29:24 well, I was referring to architecture of FreeBSD using it, i386 kernel vs amd64 kernel Sep 29 15:29:29 glass__: ... Sep 29 15:29:31 oh Sep 29 15:29:38 that's the one my classmates went to... Sep 29 15:29:42 i386 tends to have a bit too little kernel memory available no matter what. Sep 29 15:29:43 haha :DDD Sep 29 15:29:58 yeh, they sold to minors Sep 29 15:30:20 kirma: i see. i'll keep that in mind but i never had any plans to use it on anything less than a 64bit kernel Sep 29 15:30:32 but anyway, I don't think trying zfs with at least less than 4 gigabytes of memory makes much sense, because it really isn't intended for that, and nobody has cared to trim it down too much Sep 29 15:30:33 * Myrtti feels old Sep 29 15:30:35 but like i said. tha was the final solution ;) Sep 29 15:30:48 well. the server has 8G Sep 29 15:30:58 and an 8TB raid Sep 29 15:31:00 how old is Myrtti? Sep 29 15:31:10 situation with zfs has probably improved with 8.0, but still, looking at freebsd wiki for tuning is a good idea Sep 29 15:31:15 I have a complicated problem with Scratchbox. Sep 29 15:31:37 kirma: i will if i have to install. but right now i'm going ot give it a good cleaning and check the thermal compound Sep 29 15:31:45 penguinbait: 29 Sep 29 15:31:47 maybe buy some slim heatsinks for the memory just to make sure it isn't a thermal issue Sep 29 15:31:56 Now I feel old :( Sep 29 15:31:59 macer: ok :) Sep 29 15:31:59 Myrtti: don't feel too bad. i turned 30 in july :) Sep 29 15:32:05 i shed a tear Sep 29 15:32:09 When we run our SCons build, /scratchbox/tools/bin/python gets invoked, regardless of what the SConstruct file says at the top (#/usr/bin/foo, or whatever), however, when I move /scratchbox/tools/bin/python out of the way, os it's forced to use /usr/bin/python, things like mkdir don't work. Sep 29 15:32:24 * glass__ is 28 Sep 29 15:32:28 I get errors like: /scratchbox/tools/bin/mkdir: No such file or directory Sep 29 15:32:35 glass__: enjoy the last 2 years of prime life Sep 29 15:32:37 is 37 Sep 29 15:32:37 :) Sep 29 15:32:39 As if Scratchbox depends on its version of python to run mkdir... Sep 29 15:32:46 Does anyone know how to get around this problem? Sep 29 15:32:46 wow... penguinbait is REALLY old Sep 29 15:32:49 haha Sep 29 15:32:51 heh Sep 29 15:32:58 i feel a lot better now Sep 29 15:32:58 I want ONLY SCons to be invoked by my version of Python... Sep 29 15:33:52 hey, I was 34 when I got here, you got plenty good years left ;) Sep 29 15:34:00 ah well. i'm going to take another nap and try to sleep away this sickness Sep 29 15:34:07 Macer: well, i'm at the age crisis by acceleration by having to quit booze already i think.. Sep 29 15:34:25 glass__: blah. booze isn't that fun Sep 29 15:34:32 it tastes horrible and makes you feel sick afterwards Sep 29 15:34:45 i'm not much of a drinker anymore Sep 29 15:34:51 the afforementioned school has been shut down couple of years ago and now even the upper secondary has moved Sep 29 15:34:52 Macer: thats why i know these gazillion drinks to make it taste good Sep 29 15:35:01 that's why I feel old :-( Sep 29 15:35:02 yeh.. apia Sep 29 15:35:05 so many, many years ago Sep 29 15:35:06 glass__: but that doesn't help with the poisoning ;) Sep 29 15:35:11 <---- loves irish car bombs Sep 29 15:35:46 Guinness with a shot of Irish cream Sep 29 15:35:47 m Sep 29 15:35:47 Macer: nope.. but finnish culture is based around boozing, so without it i'd have to go fundie christian or something and that doesn't suit me Sep 29 15:35:48 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Sep 29 15:36:00 glass__: sounds like the russians Sep 29 15:36:01 :) Sep 29 15:36:16 in communist russia we drink for war vodka Sep 29 15:36:27 * Myrtti has a perfect excuse of staying sober - bf doesn't drink - he's from UK :-D Sep 29 15:36:45 Macer: yeh it's pretty russian Sep 29 15:36:46 Myrtti: the english are drunkards too Sep 29 15:36:59 in iraq the first thing the british would set up is the bar :) Sep 29 15:37:15 they are the only ones i ever saw that had a pub tent haha Sep 29 15:37:20 gimme a pint mate Sep 29 15:37:36 everyone I've met has known how to pace themselves Sep 29 15:37:43 which can't be said about the Finns Sep 29 15:37:44 of uk's? Sep 29 15:37:59 everytime i go to spain some briton tries to buy xtc from me Sep 29 15:38:00 glass__: yeah Sep 29 15:38:30 well. i'll ttyl. have to get back to doing nothing for a couple more days while this sickness has control over my body Sep 29 15:38:38 i guess thats better than when i went to provinssirock and some guy tried to score needles from me Sep 29 15:38:51 haha Sep 29 15:39:08 now that is something inever understood Sep 29 15:39:14 getting hooked on crack and herion Sep 29 15:39:17 or even worse.. meth Sep 29 15:39:26 i had a long trenchcoat, a tshirti with "f ck - all i need is you" and torn jeans with cpu's in them Sep 29 15:39:37 -you +u Sep 29 15:39:54 with cpus in them? Sep 29 15:39:55 wtf? Sep 29 15:40:03 like patches Sep 29 15:40:09 to keep them from tearing more Sep 29 15:40:11 you had cpus for patches? Sep 29 15:40:12 I've used videotape as may day streamers Sep 29 15:40:20 the legs on cpu's make them really easy to put on Sep 29 15:40:30 brilliant idea Sep 29 15:40:50 that is way too hackers the movie Sep 29 15:40:51 :) Sep 29 15:41:00 ♥ Hackers Sep 29 15:41:45 hello. i have Mac OS X as my desktop system and Debian linux as the server. i intend to develop some Maemo software on the Linux server, accessed via ssh from the Mac. can i now display the SDK UI on the Mac somehow? Sep 29 15:41:49 and used cpu's.. what the f would one do with them anyways? Sep 29 15:42:06 X11 forwarding? Sep 29 15:42:23 the maemo docs talks about Xephyr Sep 29 15:43:18 VNC might be a good shot too Sep 29 15:43:52 you mean like i would install a desktop system on the server first? Sep 29 15:45:16 wow i hope maemo 5 doesn't have a market Sep 29 15:45:55 why not? Sep 29 15:47:58 skyfox: you're maybe not familiar with nokias market tryouts Sep 29 15:49:13 i am afraid not Sep 29 15:49:33 skyfox, I think you can install just Xephyr on the debian linux server Sep 29 15:49:45 i think so too :/ Sep 29 15:49:53 pretty much nobody is apart from the people involved, which i guess is one of the main problems Sep 29 15:49:59 and then display the Xephyr over remote X to your mac Sep 29 15:50:16 what happens if i just forward the SDK UI via X11 on my Mac desktop? Sep 29 15:51:10 dunno Sep 29 15:51:16 I suspect it tries to take over your mac Sep 29 15:51:20 by setting the DISPLAY env var Sep 29 15:51:25 haha :P Sep 29 15:52:03 Do all X11 apps live inside a "X" window on mac, separated from "native" apps? Sep 29 15:52:24 they live on their own windows Sep 29 15:52:36 or you can also enable fullscreen Sep 29 15:53:02 Well, the purpose of the SDK UI is to have an environment resembling the one on the device, so you can test how the GUI in your app acts Sep 29 15:53:29 So even if you could display your program on the mac, displaying it on the Mac's environment with the huge screen isn't very useful Sep 29 15:53:37 run Xephyr on the mac. Sep 29 15:53:49 because they have a native Xephyr, don't they? :P Sep 29 15:53:50 or that :) Sep 29 15:54:39 * crashanddie_ wants to die Sep 29 15:54:42 last days of FY are the worst Sep 29 15:54:42 Please do Sep 29 15:54:54 lcuksuxcox: what's up? Sep 29 15:56:11 * javispedro deduces lcuksuxcox is qwerty Sep 29 15:57:29 lcuksuxcox is signed on as account qwerty12 Sep 29 15:57:38 I'm guessing you're right javispedro Sep 29 15:58:01 lol Sep 29 15:58:15 lcuksuxcox: busted! Show us your real form now! Sep 29 15:59:06 What the fuck are you on about? Sep 29 15:59:22 [16:57] == lcuksuxcox [n=Faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk] [16:57] == realname : Faheem Pervez Sep 29 15:59:37 Oh shit, I'm being impersonated Sep 29 15:59:45 qwerty12_N810: if you want to be a troll, do it properly Sep 29 15:59:49 lcuk: someone really hates you Sep 29 16:00:24 crashanddie_: It is kinda hard to troll when you can find me changing my nick... Sep 29 16:01:01 I misread that Sep 29 16:01:30 heh. Sep 29 16:01:33 very small font, "n" followed by an "i" looks like "di" Sep 29 16:02:34 lcuksuxcox: anyway, change the nickname, this channel is supposed to be family friendly for fucking hell's sake Sep 29 16:02:42 It's your craving, not mine... Sep 29 16:03:11 crashanddie: qwerty12 is a channel OP, so... Sep 29 16:03:17 * qwerty12_N810 is not Sep 29 16:03:18 well, I would be careful, so to speak ;) Sep 29 16:04:22 javispedro: if they gave op power to a prepubescent child, well, they had it coming I guess Sep 29 16:04:48 _insert random rant about southerners here_ Sep 29 16:05:15 GeneralAntilles: by the way, you're up way too early. At your age I was sleeping until 2PM on a daily basis Sep 29 16:05:45 System.out.println("createUser 4TRESS FtressException with reason " + "[(Exception class =" + e.getClass().getName() + ")" + "(ErrorCode =" + e.getErrorCode() + ")" + "(Exception Reference =" + e.getReference() + ")" + "(Message =" + e.getMessage() + ")" + "(LocalizedMessage =" + e.getLocalizedMessage() + ")" + "]"); Sep 29 16:05:52 woops, sorry Sep 29 16:06:09 I was sleeping until it was time to go to the bar and start all over again Sep 29 16:06:15 At his age, you were in prison and dropping the soap on purpose Sep 29 16:06:16 crashanddie_: Must resist code review. Starting with tabs for indent... ;-) Sep 29 16:06:39 Jaffa: actually, that's on multiple lines Sep 29 16:06:44 and spaces to align multiple arguments Sep 29 16:06:46 Jaffa: webchat removed the linefeeds Sep 29 16:07:00 crashanddie, you should adhere to family friendly more than anyone Sep 29 16:07:06 you rant with purpose Sep 29 16:07:14 qwerty12_N810, get rid of it Sep 29 16:07:40 lcuk: so I take it you didn't spot the unmissable irony of my statement? Sep 29 16:08:06 not really, im havin a shit last couple of days Sep 29 16:08:10 bbl Sep 29 16:08:11 thanks q Sep 29 16:08:22 lcuk: chill, take a pill, everyone is having shit days these days Sep 29 16:10:51 mmm dunno - i just mothballed more projects and lost more bits than ever in 10 years. Sep 29 16:10:58 * Jaffa 's day feels remarkably stress free now that the new council is in place :) Sep 29 16:11:37 Jaffa: so your company is not shitting itself because of FY end? Sep 29 16:11:41 i bet it does jaffa Sep 29 16:11:47 l Sep 29 16:11:48 Jaffa: but the reputation that you gained from being an evil Maemo.org Council member will remain Sep 29 16:13:19 crashanddie, different companies have different fy - lots are april afaik Sep 29 16:13:31 qwerty12, the council was good for jaffa Sep 29 16:13:39 lcuk: hmm, didn't know that Sep 29 16:13:57 crashanddie_, I have class around 9:30 AM most morning this semester. Sep 29 16:14:00 did you not read his last post :P Sep 29 16:14:07 lcuk: I was being sarcastic, I hoped saying that "Maemo.org Council" would have been enough to show this... Sep 29 16:14:14 lol Sep 29 16:14:14 -that Sep 29 16:14:32 Maemo.Org is usually enough to grate on gen Sep 29 16:14:49 qwerty12: nope, looked more like you finally gave in and went for the ive-got-no-clue-what-the-differences-are-and-just-lob-everything-together type of person Sep 29 16:14:56 qwerty12, people's irony detectors have been failing on you lately. Sep 29 16:15:07 * javispedro deletes half his desktop icons in a rage of cleanness. Sep 29 16:15:16 Yes, clearly you're an idiot, qwerty12. :P Sep 29 16:15:21 javispedro, i create a folder called "old" Sep 29 16:15:25 and drop 90% into it Sep 29 16:15:33 cleanliness Sep 29 16:15:46 ive got perhaps 30 or so generations of this Sep 29 16:15:50 i can go back years Sep 29 16:16:07 lcuk: and click "Yes" when it asks "This folder already contains a file named todo.txt" Sep 29 16:16:08 ? Sep 29 16:16:10 lcuk: I do that sometimes, but then delete the entiro old folder the next morning >:) Sep 29 16:16:18 GeneralAntilles: I must be :( Sep 29 16:16:28 qwerty12: you're far from being an idiot Sep 29 16:16:43 well, coming from me that musn't be very reassuring Sep 29 16:16:45 er... Sep 29 16:16:50 Yeah, you're a fucking retard. :P Sep 29 16:17:02 having problem setting up the maemo sdk with the automatic script... seems packages are broken which prevents setting up the chroots ... does anyone have any hints on how to get a working setup up and running? Sep 29 16:17:24 fatal^, at what point is it failing Sep 29 16:17:30 fatal^: yup, first step would be to tell us what's failing exactly Sep 29 16:17:30 and is it cos of things like connectivity Sep 29 16:17:35 or bec ause you have a non std os Sep 29 16:17:38 I don't care if you lick windows, take the special bus or occasionally pee on yourself. You hang in there, sunshine – you're friggin' special. Sep 29 16:17:55 penguinbait: lmao Sep 29 16:18:12 * lcuk thinks qwerty12 is cool :) he hacks and helps more people than lots of community members Sep 29 16:18:51 ive not seen anyone more willing to get involved and try to help a problem Sep 29 16:18:55 ah, thank god my irony detector is still working, or else I would've believed those kind wods for qwerty Sep 29 16:18:57 s/lots of community members/most community members united/ Sep 29 16:19:08 I'm on ubuntu karmic (because my debian sid computer is amd64 which apparently is a no-go)... It fails during apt installing packages, apt bails out after too many errors (packages left unconfigured).... I'm just running the script again and will check the first failure message. Sep 29 16:20:15 (I have used ~/opt/scratchbox instead of /scratchbox because /home is where the free space can be found.) Sep 29 16:20:45 crashanddie_: No, you've got it wrong. I'm an ex-evil Maemo Council member. Change position of "ex-" to suit ;-) Sep 29 16:20:47 fatal^: ~ as in /home/fatal ? Sep 29 16:20:47 * lardman pours a beer Sep 29 16:20:59 cheers Jaffa Sep 29 16:21:02 crashanddie_: /home/gem but yeah. Sep 29 16:21:16 fatal^: and sudo/apt is supposed to know that, how exactly? Sep 29 16:21:27 Somebody want to poke this guy about /opt? http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php Sep 29 16:21:38 crashanddie_: apt runs in a chroot I hope, so it shouldn't see that. Sep 29 16:22:03 fatal^: ok, let's try to be sensible here Sep 29 16:22:17 fatal^: what part is failing? When apt-getting stuff *inside* scratchbox? Or in Ubuntu? Sep 29 16:22:30 in scratchbox.. Sep 29 16:22:43 is networking working in scratchbox? Sep 29 16:22:46 when configuring the armel packages. Sep 29 16:22:49 fatal^: I'm on ubuntu karmic (because my debian sid computer is amd64 which apparently is a no-go)... It fails during apt installing packages, apt bails out after too many errors Sep 29 16:22:57 is DNS resolving within scratchbox? Sep 29 16:22:59 fatal^: copy the error in a pastebin Sep 29 16:24:00 Yeesh. Somebody needs to get this guy some screen protectors. http://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/n900_18.jpg Sep 29 16:24:09 aaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh Sep 29 16:24:30 look at all the stylus keyboard keys! Sep 29 16:24:34 :P Sep 29 16:24:36 GeneralAntilles: Typical stylus user ;) Sep 29 16:24:40 ouch! Sep 29 16:25:12 n900 looks very stylish when sat with its brothren Sep 29 16:25:24 I filed down my stilus tip Sep 29 16:25:32 it had a piece of plastic that was scratching the screen Sep 29 16:25:34 well, gouging. Sep 29 16:25:44 so thats probably his problem Sep 29 16:25:45 add a diamond tip Sep 29 16:25:47 the n900 looks too small :( Sep 29 16:26:11 It's a phone. I don't know about you, but I don't like holding bricks up to my ear :) Sep 29 16:26:39 I dont want a phone, I want a computer ;) Sep 29 16:26:48 with a bigger screen Sep 29 16:26:57 is nobody listening? Sep 29 16:27:03 no Sep 29 16:27:35 ok so I got my phone replacement, now I need a new tablet Sep 29 16:28:13 n800+vnc or shared x11 with the 900? Sep 29 16:29:33 * GeneralAntilles registers on My-Symbian to set some facts straight. . . . Sep 29 16:29:43 GeneralAntilles: good luck. Sep 29 16:30:18 I wandered around their forum for a bit.... there's quite a bit of "facts straighting work" to do. Sep 29 16:30:58 otoh, the reviewer did a (99%) great job. Sep 29 16:31:19 He doesn't seem to be Eldar (read: a tosser who walks around with his head up his ass) so he'll probably listen Sep 29 16:31:42 yeah, invite him to tmo and see if he brings some sanity Sep 29 16:31:50 He's already registered Sep 29 16:31:56 ah Sep 29 16:32:14 konttori__: your transitioncontrol stuff may actually bring fremantle desktop to N8x0, heh :) turning them down makes things a lot more lightweight Sep 29 16:32:38 cool! Sep 29 16:33:01 also makes device more snappy Sep 29 16:33:08 GeneralAntilles, examples? Sep 29 16:33:16 * javispedro fails at c++ Sep 29 16:33:21 ShadowJK, wrongness about /opt and application installation memory. Sep 29 16:33:25 var = new Object(); free(var) Sep 29 16:33:27 *sigh* Sep 29 16:33:43 lol Sep 29 16:33:50 konttori__: while not on n8x0, blurrycam video: http://blip.tv/file/2658172 Sep 29 16:34:01 testing n8x0 later tonight Sep 29 16:34:34 * frals moans a bit and wants the final SDK to see how open the messaging bit is Sep 29 16:35:06 Stskeeps: still it seems to react a bit slow, why would that happen? Sep 29 16:35:06 GeneralAntilles: he registered on t.m.o btw, but I assume youve seen that by now Sep 29 16:35:18 javispedro: bad TS on q5 probably.. Sep 29 16:35:24 javispedro: i have abused that poor thing a tad Sep 29 16:35:31 javispedro: but there's a bunch of knobs i haven't adjusted yet Sep 29 16:35:47 ah. Sep 29 16:35:49 "Oh, why couldn't you be a Nokia? *sobs*" Sep 29 16:36:28 ~lart Windows' CR/LF rubbishness Sep 29 16:36:28 * infobot executes killall -TERM Windows' CR/LF rubbishness Sep 29 16:36:33 Stskeeps: can't see on the video but, is that trying to blur the background? I was thinking that for the slowdown Sep 29 16:37:01 javispedro: it tries but i've removed the transition a bit.. may need to cut that part as well Sep 29 16:37:12 i think the slowdown is just cos i haven't cut the right places :) Sep 29 16:37:29 this is mostly a proof of concept Sep 29 16:37:43 I see, just wondering. ;P Sep 29 16:38:43 it'd be speeding fast with GL drivers :P Sep 29 16:38:51 on the PalmOS there was an app trying to add transitions to dialogs too Sep 29 16:38:54 can't remember the name Sep 29 16:38:55 crashanddie_: http://fatal.se/tmp/msdk.txt ... the first package that fails seems to be "hal" although there are weird looking errors before that as well. Sep 29 16:39:46 fatal^: "mmap: permission denied". Hint: read the release notes and search for "mmap" Sep 29 16:39:56 qwerty12: thanks Sep 29 16:40:23 well, can't remember the name. but I am telling this because i remember it having a blur effect much like the fremantle one, written in asm. quite fast. Sep 29 16:40:47 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=336124&postcount=13 Sep 29 16:40:50 heh Sep 29 16:40:58 Stskeeps: runs almost usably fast Sep 29 16:41:18 blurring of the bg can also be disabled Sep 29 16:41:30 just look at /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini Sep 29 16:41:36 yeah Sep 29 16:41:42 i edited it directly after i realised what your code did Sep 29 16:42:34 konttori__, hi! new drnoksnes should be in extras-devel :) Sep 29 16:43:00 I saw it. Sep 29 16:43:18 (there's a bug I noticed just after uploading but it should only affect n8x0 Sep 29 16:43:20 ) Sep 29 16:43:24 javispedro: wait just a moment and the video is uploaded to youtube Sep 29 16:44:17 * javispedro fustigates himself for forgetting about the "don't write free()"whean you mean delete in C++" rule. Sep 29 16:44:23 konttori__: cool! Sep 29 16:45:21 hi, how many people from nokia work officially on maemo? Sep 29 16:45:42 BluesLee: difficult ot qu Sep 29 16:45:48 to quantify i guess Sep 29 16:45:56 My last guess was in the ~200 person range. Sep 29 16:46:00 eldas has a list lol :) Sep 29 16:46:02 blueslee: A MILLION BILLION Sep 29 16:46:05 s/eldas/eldar Sep 29 16:46:11 javispedro: he also thinks wazd is a nokian Sep 29 16:46:15 http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/ Sep 29 16:46:29 GeneralAntilles: okay, i guessed much less:-) Sep 29 16:46:41 BluesLee, that would've been true a year or two ago. Sep 29 16:46:45 awesome konttori__ :D Sep 29 16:46:48 * javispedro sees he fscked the GUI Sep 29 16:46:51 (again) Sep 29 16:46:54 ahhh the button sizes :P Sep 29 16:47:01 Goddamn that's fast. Sep 29 16:47:02 yay for dr nok snes \o/ my favourite app Sep 29 16:47:15 odd. audio is totally wasted. Sep 29 16:47:31 hmm... that is quite a regression. Sep 29 16:47:32 your kid is crying in the background thou ;) Sep 29 16:47:46 yeah. thus. sort video Sep 29 16:48:20 GeneralAntilles: 200 is much, so nokia seems to be serious with the further development Sep 29 16:48:26 wow. verrry nice Sep 29 16:48:48 BluesLee, I'd say its the new flagship platform. Sep 29 16:48:59 really cool stuff, cant wait to get my hands on it :) Sep 29 16:49:02 BluesLee, no matter how much the Nokia execs want to dissemble on that point. Sep 29 16:49:44 konttori__: whoa.. gotta try that. looks great Sep 29 16:49:48 GeneralAntilles: i hope so and if the complete switch to qt is done also for symbian there will be much more synergy Sep 29 16:50:05 BluesLee, interesting times ahead. Sep 29 16:50:19 <_berto_> snes looks fine on the n900 Sep 29 16:50:41 * GeneralAntilles 's SSD gets here today. Sep 29 16:50:58 which one? Sep 29 16:51:08 X25-m 80GB v.2 Sep 29 16:51:16 tasty :) Sep 29 16:51:39 <_berto_> i'll have to port the spectrum emulator -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-mOY1pXYS0 Sep 29 16:52:16 frals, I downgraded from a 2-drive RAID 0 so things have been slow while I'm waiting. ;) Sep 29 16:52:32 lol Sep 29 16:52:58 Ugh, I hate how forums can't agree on how much whitespace to automatically insert after a quote block. Sep 29 16:53:02 what are you doing that requires that kind of disk bandwidth? :) Sep 29 16:53:29 I can't believe that the community went into such lengths to implement an anonymous voting system Sep 29 16:53:33 frals, nothing in particular. Sep 29 16:53:33 f Sep 29 16:53:35 r Sep 29 16:53:40 but that in the end, nearly everyone voted on the bloody forums, in a logged system... Sep 29 16:54:25 I am not personally a fan of STV voting Sep 29 16:54:52 I can't believe we put so much work into getting things arranged so more people could vote and hardly any of them did. Sep 29 16:54:59 im quite happy with my wd velociraptor 300 still.. but im probably gonna fall for temptation and get an SSD soon Sep 29 16:55:16 GeneralAntilles: which is exactly why I have always been *against* the karma requirements Sep 29 16:55:29 frals, never went the Raptor route. I'll let you know how the SSD feels. Sep 29 16:55:33 GA, did we really have 900+ voters in the 1st election? Sep 29 16:55:47 was more around 600 IIRC Sep 29 16:55:49 penguinbait, yes, but that was out of about 14,000 eligible voters. Sep 29 16:55:52 however my memory might fail me Sep 29 16:56:01 It was 900 and change. Sep 29 16:56:05 k Sep 29 16:56:07 so why was it restricted to begin with? Sep 29 16:56:26 it got GA voted in so restrictions were needed? ;) Sep 29 16:56:26 penguinbait: because some people thought that trolls were going to create accounts to fake the voting results Sep 29 16:56:34 ah Sep 29 16:56:54 crashanddie_, that, and attempting to limit the electorate to people who are likely to be informed. Sep 29 16:56:54 penguinbait: personally I always thought that we were way to arrogant to assume such a thing Sep 29 16:57:06 Since name recognition isn't the most appropriate of voting metrics. Sep 29 16:57:18 GeneralAntilles: and history proved us that only informed people voted Sep 29 16:57:23 Since the council isn't a power position ANYWAY. . . . Sep 29 16:57:38 GeneralAntilles: and the rest who didn't give a rat's ass... didn't give a rat's ass Sep 29 16:57:46 heh Sep 29 16:58:09 GeneralAntilles: that kinda wonders me though - shouldn't council be a power position? :P as in, the council together, not a council member Sep 29 16:58:32 It's a facilitation role, not an administrative one. Sep 29 16:58:32 here comes the Jedi Council fantasy again Sep 29 16:58:43 *g* Sep 29 16:58:44 either way the election went off mostly without problems, good job to dneary Sep 29 16:58:55 *cough* except for the wrong dates *cough* Sep 29 16:59:06 hm why I didnt get a voting token Sep 29 16:59:14 crashanddie_: it's a conspiracy to have time to alter the votes! :P Sep 29 16:59:28 woglinde: because your nickname starts with a w Sep 29 16:59:35 ah okay Sep 29 16:59:38 Can the council vote lcuk king? Sep 29 16:59:42 * Stskeeps wouldn't mind a administrative council. facilitation can be left to employees and volunteers. facilitating the facilitators. Sep 29 16:59:45 I suppose they were out at M Sep 29 16:59:49 woglinde: and this year round, voting tokens were only sent to a-v users Sep 29 17:00:06 Can the council vote qwerty12 court jestor Sep 29 17:00:17 does that require a vote? Sep 29 17:00:32 lunch now Sep 29 17:01:01 furry council has decided Sep 29 17:02:01 penguinbait, http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=1 Sep 29 17:02:14 alright where are the hires pictures of qwerty? Sep 29 17:02:30 thx Sep 29 17:06:14 penguinbait, as long as the king gets paid Sep 29 17:06:38 its up to you to collect your taxes Sep 29 17:06:59 mrs lcuk is sending me to work the mines soon :( Sep 29 17:07:00 can wepromote drnoksnes to extras? Sep 29 17:07:46 konttori__, where do you get roms from Sep 29 17:07:55 google Sep 29 17:08:00 Good answer Sep 29 17:08:04 * lcuk sees loads of people playing but cant find a legit source for them Sep 29 17:08:30 well. of course. i copied from my old cartridge Sep 29 17:08:31 I dont have a legit source, but I can zip some up for ya Sep 29 17:08:35 shhhhhh Sep 29 17:08:55 i would *really* like to properly talk to game companies etc and get a proper legit emulator for this platform Sep 29 17:09:16 do something different. Sep 29 17:09:20 would nintendo do it? i doubt it Sep 29 17:09:27 no i doubt they would Sep 29 17:09:30 but others might Sep 29 17:09:44 this platform is built on collaboration Sep 29 17:09:59 if you've the original cartridge you can use the roms, right ? Sep 29 17:10:07 so try working with the companies Sep 29 17:10:15 Legit emulators suck. They only have a purpose when someone hacks them to run your own roms, like with the PSP's PSX emulator Sep 29 17:10:24 yes VDVsx but you cant play and charge at the same time :D lol Sep 29 17:10:46 qwerty12, trying to rise above and think about something proper here :P Sep 29 17:11:09 Please do that. Legit emulators are good in the sense that the company will be able to get the emulation perfect Sep 29 17:11:15 I'll be waiting for the hacked version Sep 29 17:11:21 erm... Sep 29 17:11:36 konttori__, btw, javispedro is the package maintainer ^ Sep 29 17:11:38 lol javispedro this is just same thing i spoke to you about the other night Sep 29 17:12:00 lcuk, yeah, I know, but yet I'm still worried by same reasons :) Sep 29 17:13:00 is drnoksnes oss? Sep 29 17:13:07 lcuk: yes. gpl compatible. Sep 29 17:14:28 then you understand copyright - and rightfully dont (intentionally) break it Sep 29 17:14:47 konttori__: did you mention something about audio being wrong in drnoksnes? Sep 29 17:14:50 you dont insert dodgy games with it etc so that part cant be a concern Sep 29 17:14:51 Hello ! Sep 29 17:14:58 javispedro: audio is perfect Sep 29 17:15:09 just that my video has distorted audio Sep 29 17:15:11 ah! misread then. *sound of relief* Sep 29 17:15:12 does there is know problem with alarmd on diablo ? Sep 29 17:15:13 really off Sep 29 17:15:20 javispedro: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/ Sep 29 17:15:22 Khertan_n810: there's an odd problem with alarms i think Sep 29 17:15:24 watch the video Sep 29 17:15:27 lcuk: why would anyone ship roms with their free emulator? Sep 29 17:15:49 stskeeps: does there is things to avoid ? Sep 29 17:15:56 konttori__: yes, saw it, very cool and thanks for the video! Sep 29 17:16:02 Khertan_n810: not sure, but rumours claim there's bugs Sep 29 17:16:03 Although, RST38h does do that with his calculators (not that I mind/care)... Sep 29 17:16:24 qwerty12: then TI has even released some of the roms "for free" AFAIK. Sep 29 17:16:37 Wouldn't know about that. *shrug* Sep 29 17:17:13 Stskeeps there is as i m trying to add alarm in python and they never show up Sep 29 17:17:16 javis: I'm pretty sure they've released all of them Sep 29 17:17:24 they make bank off the calculators Sep 29 17:17:34 we run with Ti inside Sep 29 17:17:36 since schools won't let you use laptops on tests Sep 29 17:17:47 but thats only for calcs Sep 29 17:17:48 i bet theres a way to run calc stuff outside Sep 29 17:17:53 but thats another thing entirely Sep 29 17:18:42 only goes to proof they have a more "libel" approach than certain other company... Sep 29 17:19:11 and python binding does return always the same type of obj ... strange ... Sep 29 17:19:27 sometime an osso.alarmd() sometime a dict Sep 29 17:19:31 strange Sep 29 17:20:21 hum ... maybe i shouldn t try to use it anymore and do it myself Sep 29 17:20:45 but it means a daemon working in background and alarm not working while device is turned off Sep 29 17:20:47 too bad ! Sep 29 17:22:13 oh community election result ! Sep 29 17:23:01 oh ..; sniff lcuk not elected ! Sep 29 17:23:14 they rigged the vote Sep 29 17:23:16 fucking diebold Sep 29 17:23:24 I demand a recount Sep 29 17:23:41 * SpeedEvil sighs. Sep 29 17:23:46 * SpeedEvil was backing lcuk! Sep 29 17:24:09 * frals wouldve backed le coq if he filled the voting reqs Sep 29 17:24:09 Khertan_n810, i am still a member of this community (for about 2 weeks if no job comes up) Sep 29 17:24:45 What happens after two weeks? *moves finger across throat*? Sep 29 17:25:12 two weeks only ? Sep 29 17:25:17 lcuk received the 3rd highest # of total votes yet did not get a seat on council. Sep 29 17:25:23 its a conspiracy Sep 29 17:25:24 no job come up ? <<< Sep 29 17:25:34 penguinbait: wouldn't you have been pushed out if it was regular voting? :P Sep 29 17:25:42 penguinbait, cool Sep 29 17:25:57 Khertan_n810, tomorrow is my last day in my job of 9 years. Sep 29 17:26:16 lcuk: you shouldve joined the guys doing the chopper heist in sweden, they made away with 67m SEK (~6.5million €) Sep 29 17:26:22 Stskeeps, nope Sep 29 17:26:25 i had to make a decision because i could not get onedotzero finished in time - and my boss would not give me holidays Sep 29 17:26:27 uh ? how old are you ? Sep 29 17:26:52 onedotzero . Sep 29 17:26:53 ? Sep 29 17:26:58 * SpeedEvil bets on 32. Sep 29 17:27:06 i was not about to let down all the people in the collaborative get together and the thousands of folks who passed by Sep 29 17:27:53 javispedro: and sorry for not having the time to do it properly. Had to take care of the baby. And now I might have the time, but the video is already done. Sep 29 17:28:00 perhaps a new one later on. Sep 29 17:28:09 konttori__: hehe, don't worry, I understand :) Sep 29 17:28:21 konttori__, heard baby in the video Sep 29 17:28:36 she must be gettin big now Sep 29 17:29:12 5 months, and exploring everything Sep 29 17:29:45 hello, i am considering buying n810 or n900; i am a bit anxious about short timespan for support for n770 -- would my n900 still get bugfixes for closed source software pieces after two years? Sep 29 17:29:45 * SpeedEvil ponders the 4chan generation. Sep 29 17:29:58 konttori__, :D Sep 29 17:30:13 liori: I would expect that a substantial effort would be made by the community to replace some of the closed bits of the 900. Sep 29 17:30:24 liori: Especially if it gets popular Sep 29 17:30:31 liori: one year of updates has been promised Sep 29 17:31:19 konttori, no tests of tablet saliva-proofness? Sep 29 17:31:34 ...yes Sep 29 17:31:43 yet even Sep 29 17:31:47 I have a freerunner now and I am very disappointed at the software; a year after releasing it to the community and it still is not very usable... so I'd rather not count on the community :/ Sep 29 17:32:08 FR is kind of an utterly, utterly different case. Sep 29 17:32:24 Openmoko really screwed up by the numbers. Sep 29 17:32:55 They had a phone software stack which could have been workable - clunky and unpretty but sms/calls/... by xmas 2007. Sep 29 17:33:05 Ok - the hardware wasn't ideal - but it'd have worked. Sep 29 17:33:34 lion, well, you can already see the community at work here. Sep 29 17:33:35 ~mer Sep 29 17:33:36 hmm... mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Sep 29 17:33:41 They diddn't actually fix key kernel drivers till quite recently though - getting stuff suspending forex. Sep 29 17:33:45 s/lion/liori/ Sep 29 17:34:00 The n900 starts out at a _much_ higher base level. Sep 29 17:34:16 Even without the closed bits Sep 29 17:34:36 there is very little closed in fremantle Sep 29 17:34:38 where can I read about the closed code? Sep 29 17:35:28 * SpeedEvil echos liori's question. Sep 29 17:35:36 I haven't seen a nice breakdown of the closed parts. Sep 29 17:36:26 damn batteries died in my mce remote Sep 29 17:36:38 well, it's like, a few apps, some drivers and that's it Sep 29 17:38:36 wow people who do literature are worse than ubuntu people Sep 29 17:38:39 konttori__: Sure - so far I guess the media player, the battery charging stuff, and that's all I know Sep 29 17:38:52 konttori__: some of the X server? Sep 29 17:39:11 sgx drivers Sep 29 17:39:35 the sketching app? ;) Sep 29 17:39:47 Mer vs. Maemo Sep 29 17:40:02 More relevantly. Sep 29 17:40:11 What is the current state of a completely opensource n900 Sep 29 17:40:20 does it boot? Make calls? ... Sep 29 17:40:32 SpeedEvil: noone really tried Sep 29 17:40:38 it takes the hw to try Sep 29 17:40:42 yeah Sep 29 17:40:54 frankly, let's not worry too much. Sep 29 17:44:31 SpeedEvil: why do you want a 100% OSS N900? Sep 29 17:45:26 why wouldn't he want that? Sep 29 17:45:30 Sargun_Screen: I want - when/if nokia decides 'bored now' - that my shiny n900 can for example have an updated kernel that works with all the peripherals. Sep 29 17:45:44 SpeedEvil: ah, kernel you shouldn't be worried about.. that part is open source Sep 29 17:45:49 (neglecting for the moment that it'd likely be somewhat scrached now) Sep 29 17:46:11 By kernel I mean kernel and core userspace daemons that are required for functionality Sep 29 17:46:13 Stskeeps: no binary modules for various devices? Sep 29 17:46:18 not AFAIK Sep 29 17:46:19 that's nice Sep 29 17:46:24 For example - battery charge Sep 29 17:46:51 SpeedEvil: rest shouldn't be a problem .. the solution already exists legally as well but just not implemented Sep 29 17:47:36 Corsac: binary modules are illegal Sep 29 17:47:50 bah Sep 29 17:47:59 unfortunate Sep 29 17:48:02 but not illegal Sep 29 17:48:02 Binary modules are illegal, but lots of vendors do the binarey = shim thing. Sep 29 17:48:08 SpeedEvil: yeah :/ Sep 29 17:48:11 luke-jr: do you have a trigger on 'open'? Sep 29 17:48:11 :P Sep 29 17:48:17 SpeedEvil: I'm looking for the same thing as you Sep 29 17:48:23 SpeedEvil: we should exchange notes :p Sep 29 17:48:27 maybe a wiki is in order Sep 29 17:48:42 Stskeeps: no, blame God for alerting me ;) Sep 29 17:48:50 "OSS & insanity"? Sep 29 17:48:59 speaking personally - I don't care _at_all_ if it's all closed kernelspace and drivers - as long as nokia keeps updating it for - say - 8 years. Sep 29 17:49:02 * lcuk stands with qwerty Sep 29 17:49:10 Stskeeps: also, note Nokia's record-- gpsdriver doesn't work with current kernels and probably never will Sep 29 17:49:21 SpeedEvil: -.- Sep 29 17:49:22 SpeedEvil, no, what i would want is : whenever nokia stops updating it - then its opened Sep 29 17:49:31 lcuk: or that Sep 29 17:49:31 replace nokia with any company Sep 29 17:49:46 lcuk: that would be decent ;) Sep 29 17:49:47 that would be great Sep 29 17:49:49 help prevent bitrot for used products Sep 29 17:50:03 Well - you're talking to a nutter here. Sep 29 17:50:07 but the only way for that to ever happen would be ... to enforce it by law, which sounds crazy. Sep 29 17:50:16 I personally want specification on firmware and a JTAG port for my microwave and car. Sep 29 17:50:26 consider it for the good of mankind Sep 29 17:50:47 I personnally want a car *without* a firmware Sep 29 17:50:52 lcuk: If it was good for mankind, then mankind would be willing to pay Nokia for it. Sep 29 17:51:30 And I'm actually semi-seriously considering installing linux on my microwave. Sep 29 17:51:31 mankind pays nokia for the devices dont they Sep 29 17:51:35 mankind does not know what's good for him, or else they would not be buying so many iphones... Sep 29 17:51:48 SpeedEvil, why not - microsoft windows on microwaves is silly Sep 29 17:51:54 bbiab Sep 29 17:51:58 iphones are only bought because they contain MSG Sep 29 17:52:00 Corsac: I don't mind firmware if it's open. Sep 29 17:52:20 MSG=Mass Suicidal Gratitude? Sep 29 17:52:25 no Sep 29 17:52:28 Corsac: My real objection to car electronics is that with minor standardisation, one ECU could do 95% of the cars out there _cheaply- Sep 29 17:52:33 monosodium glutimate. Something that makes things tastier and arguably addictive Sep 29 17:52:35 SpeedEvil: You basically want to build an os, given the hardware? Sep 29 17:53:00 * javispedro fails at getting que chemistry reference ;) Sep 29 17:53:23 Sargun_Screen: no - I want stuff to be maintainable by end users, rather than bit-rotting, or being hideously expensive to maintain due to silly requirements. Sep 29 17:53:31 SpeedEvil, nahhh its the same with lots of computerised and system things - you have years of standardisation and suppliers and everythign for that manu Sep 29 17:53:40 and retooling just because is a bad idea Sep 29 17:54:15 now if there was a way for all to coordinate and end up on a strong ecu or XYZ system over time then great - but that happens already Sep 29 17:54:18 lcuk: 95%+ of cars engines can be run _just_fine_ with a common ECU. For that ECU to cost a large fraction of the price of the car is insane. Sep 29 17:54:26 no, it doesn't. Sep 29 17:54:27 so your 95% one either is too young, or not right Sep 29 17:54:54 look at tryes Sep 29 17:54:59 Point to _one_ ECU model - other than megasquirt or similar - that is common over more than a very small range of one manufacturers cars. Sep 29 17:55:05 tyres Sep 29 17:55:51 SpeedEvil, thats what im saying - your 95% perfect model is either too young, or does not beat the one they have now Sep 29 17:56:01 I'm talking here of stiff that the vendors have managed to maintain a exclusive lock on - car electronics for example. Sep 29 17:56:38 lcuk: No, it doesn't beat it at all. It's as cheap as the existing control unit, and available - in principle - cheaply from many vendors. Sep 29 17:56:44 Which of course would decrease profits. Sep 29 17:57:06 But it leads to insanities like 400 quid to replace a key. Sep 29 17:57:55 ok - so replace that and kill off the entire supply chain Sep 29 17:58:06 without them having anywhere else to go Sep 29 17:58:16 customers get a £10 key Sep 29 17:58:41 however many lose their jobs Sep 29 17:59:20 wow, what a review of n900 http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php Sep 29 17:59:40 believe me - i dont want to pay £400 for a key (mines only ever been £30-50 afaik) and i would REALLY look after it if it was that much Sep 29 18:00:25 no konttori__ a Preview Sep 29 18:00:25 it says as much in the link ;) Sep 29 18:00:41 OMG! 's I get hold of a final unit, which shouldn't last longer than just a couple of weeks.' Sep 29 18:00:42 What terrible reliability Sep 29 18:00:42 a very good one by all acocunts Sep 29 18:03:58 SpeedEvil: what? Sep 29 18:05:27 lcuk: Charging £400 for a key just so you can keep a few extra people employed is not helping anyone. Sep 29 18:05:29 whos up for a walk around amsterdam whilst we are there Sep 29 18:05:42 It's the classic Broken Window fallacy. Sep 29 18:05:48 no derf Sep 29 18:05:50 but ive never heard of a £400 key Sep 29 18:05:56 i thought it was metaphorical Sep 29 18:05:57 Oh, they're real. Sep 29 18:06:15 o_O yikes Sep 29 18:06:17 Hold on, let me dig up a URL. Sep 29 18:07:08 Thre is also the lack of information and skill in the delearship. Sep 29 18:07:23 but - its like cpu switchovers - theres an awful lot of background that has to be considered Sep 29 18:07:28 If your ECU doesn't work - they're essentially limited to replacing it. Sep 29 18:07:45 Because all ECUs in all cars differ, you can't do sensible fault-finding often. Sep 29 18:07:52 Hi Sep 29 18:08:14 lcuk, my name is shown in one of the screenshots of that review, so it's a good review , lolol Sep 29 18:09:00 * javispedro wants Sep 29 18:09:11 *gadget drool* Sep 29 18:09:31 does anyone know if the N900's browser works with firefox extensions out of the box, or will they require modification? Sep 29 18:09:37 VDVsx: I find that the worst part of the entire review Sep 29 18:10:21 microlith: I can test it for you in the next couple of days. My team leader is playing with the n900 right now. Sep 29 18:10:29 ooh cool Sep 29 18:10:37 microlith: Any extension in particular? Sep 29 18:10:44 adblock and noscript primarily Sep 29 18:10:52 qwerty12_N810, eheheh, this time transmission wasn't shown :P Sep 29 18:10:57 lcuk: http://www.esquire.com/features/money/ESQ0205NEGO_114_1 Sep 29 18:11:09 VDVsx: :p Sep 29 18:11:18 I'd ask for "rikai-chan" but that requires knowing more about the N900's language support Sep 29 18:11:29 The whole thing is good, if off-topic, but the key quote is, "I hate saying this, but we had a Camry last week that billed out at $1,200 for a new key." Sep 29 18:13:18 derf: Do they still make Camrys with normal locks? Sep 29 18:13:27 Gekk if I know. Sep 29 18:13:36 Bad, bad sign... Sep 29 18:13:41 VDVsx: so, do you appear in that screenshot with the Music library sorted by Author? ;) Sep 29 18:14:01 http://www.hallysonluiz.com/maemo/?p=18 <=== Nokia PC Suite done right Sep 29 18:14:04 * VDVsx checks Sep 29 18:14:07 Somebody hire this guy =) Sep 29 18:14:20 javispedro, link to the shot :P ? Sep 29 18:14:29 VDVsx: joking of course :) Sep 29 18:14:57 VDVsx: http://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/scr91_sm.jpg ;) Sep 29 18:14:58 javispedro, nah, I want to know the level of your offense :P Sep 29 18:15:18 Then I won't say which one ;P Sep 29 18:15:37 RST38h, the base model in 2008 was still normal. Sep 29 18:15:37 D Sep 29 18:15:37 unn Sep 29 18:15:37 o ba Sep 29 18:15:41 Dunno about now. Sep 29 18:15:49 * GeneralAntilles wonders what's up with his Enter key. Sep 29 18:16:24 Sticky, by any chance? ;P Sep 29 18:16:24 * SpeedEvil wonders about s60ine Sep 29 18:16:25 javispedro, don't know any of them, lol Sep 29 18:16:42 * javispedro wonders about s60ine flu Sep 29 18:16:55 (wine for s60 apps) Sep 29 18:17:10 oh, cool. Sep 29 18:17:30 qwerty12_N810, think it's software. :\ Sep 29 18:17:44 General: You mean the real PC Suite? It has been a disaster for a few years now Sep 29 18:18:05 General: Written in Java, 89MB distro, runs background processes on your system, even when you are not running it Sep 29 18:18:09 GeneralAntilles: Heh Sep 29 18:18:22 RST38h: wharrrgh. Sep 29 18:18:23 Huh? Sep 29 18:18:25 General: Slow and crashes every now and then, but that is expected (see Java) Sep 29 18:18:25 RST38h, Camry Sep 29 18:18:34 General: Oh...Camry Sep 29 18:18:39 Then I hope calendar can sync with anything else. Sep 29 18:18:42 SpeedEvil: if nokia gets symbian out there under an open source license, it'd probably be great Sep 29 18:19:05 * RST38h likes Camry. Sep 29 18:20:28 2004 5-speed. Sep 29 18:20:28 I Sep 29 18:20:28 t's Sep 29 18:20:28 Ugh Sep 29 18:21:20 'lo, Sho_. Sep 29 18:21:47 moin GeneralAntilles Sep 29 18:25:11 microlith, probably not terribly useful. Anyone sane wont touch it.. Sep 29 18:25:56 konttori__, ping Sep 29 18:26:00 pong Sep 29 18:27:12 konttori__, just wanted to make sure you where ok with my new theme for Diablo that looks is based of the template that comes with fremantle theme maker Sep 29 18:27:31 of course. Sep 29 18:27:42 is it downloadable yet? Sep 29 18:27:45 baasiclly tore template apart and rebuild it to match diablo had to create some stuff by hand but you know Sep 29 18:27:46 and if so, where? Sep 29 18:28:04 * Myrtti yips a bit Sep 29 18:28:14 Myrtti, Not yet, but I'm sure I will have it done by end of the week Sep 29 18:28:23 Yippee! Sep 29 18:29:01 konttori__, I'll be including credit to you anywhere I write about the theme since most of the it is based off your work Sep 29 18:29:53 SpeedEvil, konttori__: thank you, i think i'm convinced Sep 29 18:30:35 AndrewFBlack: the template is cc and it is partially based on Tuomas Kuosmanens theme as well. There is an about file included that has the details Sep 29 18:31:21 I thought it was CC but I always like to ask Sep 29 18:35:00 blurrycam video of Fremantle hildon-desktop on N8x0 with SW rendering: http://blip.tv/file/2659691?filename=Stskeeps-FremantleDesktopSWRenderingN8x0175.flv Sep 29 18:35:10 (ogv there too for those who are into ogv..) Sep 29 18:35:32 Woo! Sep 29 18:35:39 the scrolling screen is my bad N8x0's fault Sep 29 18:37:41 Blurrycam indeed. Sep 29 18:37:42 W Sep 29 18:37:42 e Sep 29 18:37:42 need Sep 29 18:37:43 to g Sep 29 18:37:44 et Sep 29 18:37:46 UGH! Sep 29 18:37:50 lol Sep 29 18:37:50 We need to get you a real camera. Sep 29 18:37:59 Stskeeps++ Sep 29 18:38:21 GeneralAntilles: flooder Sep 29 18:38:26 Stskeeps, how much processing power does your webcam identification stuff need Sep 29 18:38:43 lcuk: heh, not a tablet thing thank god.. Sep 29 18:39:06 like the hough circles Sep 29 18:39:07 seriously - is it overpowering Sep 29 18:39:16 or could it be optimized Sep 29 18:39:16 hmm Sep 29 18:39:19 maybe considering n900 Sep 29 18:39:30 someone should make a N900 app to scan barcodes on products and find what the best price is Sep 29 18:39:37 thats coming Sep 29 18:39:41 so you can just point and see if the store has a ripoff price Sep 29 18:39:54 lcuk: how will you search products? :p Sep 29 18:40:00 3g data Sep 29 18:40:00 most stores don't put barcode info online Sep 29 18:40:03 and webscraping Sep 29 18:40:11 barcode is universal afaik Sep 29 18:40:23 yeah but Sep 29 18:40:33 you're lucky to get model numbers, let alone barcodes, on store sites Sep 29 18:40:48 yeah Sep 29 18:40:53 dunno how lardman is looking Sep 29 18:40:58 or the other guys Sep 29 18:41:07 what's that? Sep 29 18:41:09 just walked in Sep 29 18:41:12 lol Sep 29 18:41:48 ah yes, well I'm just hacking away at the webscraping stuff now Sep 29 18:42:03 lardman: but how do you get from barcode -> webpage ? :p Sep 29 18:42:23 send the barcode to the webpage, add it in the url, etc Sep 29 18:42:41 if you build it, the web will come (and fill it)? Sep 29 18:43:01 lardman: what webpage accepts barcodes? Sep 29 18:43:12 ah I see Sep 29 18:43:23 well you decode the barcode first to an EAN Sep 29 18:43:29 many accept barcodes - only a few will display related results Sep 29 18:43:46 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/mbarcode/ Sep 29 18:43:48 binary here Sep 29 18:43:56 shhhhhhhh lardman Sep 29 18:44:01 this is luke-jr you are talking to Sep 29 18:44:01 still needs tuning mind you Sep 29 18:44:07 source or nothing! Sep 29 18:44:08 and...? :) Sep 29 18:44:12 lol Sep 29 18:44:26 you have source too! Sep 29 18:44:26 ah, well source is in the maemo-barcode Garage project of course Sep 29 18:44:45 how do I search Amazon by EAN? Sep 29 18:44:48 or NewEgg Sep 29 18:44:55 or Google in general ? :p Sep 29 18:44:57 no idea about NewEgg Sep 29 18:45:01 Should /scratchbox/tools/bin be in the PATH before /usr/bin even if SBOX_REDIRECT_FROM_DIRS=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin ? Sep 29 18:46:02 A neat app would be to take the standard ASDA/tesco/wallmart/HighExplosivesRUs price label, and to auto-parse it Sep 29 18:46:10 So you show it the barcode, then the price label Sep 29 18:46:40 yeah speedevil Sep 29 18:46:40 take photo of it all Sep 29 18:46:42 combine discaplines do some ocr + barcode Sep 29 18:46:43 do things still have price labels> Sep 29 18:46:44 ? Sep 29 18:46:45 and upload all info Sep 29 18:46:48 hm, non-composite mode.. Sep 29 18:46:49 on the shelves yeah Sep 29 18:46:51 lardman: on the shelf Sep 29 18:46:52 with barcode Sep 29 18:46:56 ah I see Sep 29 18:47:15 also a handy pence per unit thing too Sep 29 18:47:31 loving the tags on the "we love lcuk" thread Sep 29 18:48:17 this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32164 Sep 29 18:48:22 or theres another now? Sep 29 18:48:36 ya that one Sep 29 18:48:41 alchohol, lovely Sep 29 18:49:18 with the scary scandinavian kb layout in n900 (arrow keys), will simply "setxkbmap us" give full arrow keys when needed? Sep 29 18:49:36 zemm: probably Sep 29 18:51:27 who shared the link to the sane pc suite thing Sep 29 18:51:41 http://www.hallysonluiz.com/maemo/?p=18 Sep 29 18:51:43 that Sep 29 18:51:57 by the way, is anyone working on HDR imaging for fremantle? Sep 29 18:51:58 RST38h Sep 29 18:52:19 HDR assumes hardware Sep 29 18:52:20 I would be very interested in getting that working, as we have such a great cam on the device Sep 29 18:52:24 you can't try without it Sep 29 18:52:41 well, not true. You can code most of it without hw. Sep 29 18:52:48 Sure. Sep 29 18:53:04 And it remains uttelry useless if the camera firmware isn't configurable enough Sep 29 18:53:09 as what you do, is take a series (3 or more) images and then combine them as hdr. Sep 29 18:53:26 A series of images at different exposures. Sep 29 18:53:34 If the camera won't do this - you're screwed. Sep 29 18:53:43 I have been looking at this method: http://bpowah.googlepages.com/hdrandpythonpil Sep 29 18:53:52 should be possible with extended controls on v4l2 even now Sep 29 18:53:57 And the cam should have all the needed configuration options. Sep 29 18:54:25 Should have - yes. Does it - are they exposed - do they work. Sep 29 18:54:37 This is something that you can only really test with access to the device. Sep 29 18:54:38 yeah, is on my list to test Sep 29 18:54:46 eventually Sep 29 18:55:11 I'm interested in how to focus, but uses the same bunch of controls Sep 29 18:55:30 Hmm.. why haven't we shipped yet! Damn. I want to see some cool hacking stuff, but I have to spend my time getting the soft to shippable state. blah. Sep 29 18:56:08 i thought you were doin cool hacks yourself Sep 29 18:56:29 I don't have the time to do cool hacks atm. well, not enough time. Sep 29 18:56:49 never enough time for anything Sep 29 18:56:59 * lcuk wants back to the future license plates Sep 29 18:57:03 hello Sep 29 18:57:05 "outatime" Sep 29 18:57:05 hmm, upsetting that the lightweight Amazon site can't be called with an EAN directly Sep 29 18:57:09 that hdr I could do, but I don't have proper API specs available and example code how to use python to take the images. Sep 29 18:57:25 konttori__, the Push N900 guys did Sep 29 18:57:28 camera api Sep 29 18:57:34 they use python afaik to do the 3d shots Sep 29 18:57:56 i was reading http://maemo.org/development/tools/ and i would like to know where can i have a preview of Performance and Resource Usage tools please .? Sep 29 18:57:56 just a gstreamer v4l2camsrc Sep 29 18:59:11 mybad a preview of them? Sep 29 18:59:20 battery meter: ----------------------------------- Sep 29 18:59:30 cpu meter: \/\/\/\/\/----------------\/\/\/\/\/\-------- Sep 29 18:59:43 lcuk, something like gitweb or simply where can i download the sources if they're open please Sep 29 18:59:50 accelerometer: \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Sep 29 18:59:53 (whilst dancing) Sep 29 19:00:14 i dunno Sep 29 19:00:19 * lcuk would be interested too Sep 29 19:00:38 lcuk: cool. 3d shots with cam? sounds wicked. Sep 29 19:00:49 viewmaster 3d Sep 29 19:00:49 I tell a lie, you can pass it the EAN directly, thank Gos Sep 29 19:00:52 with an n900 inside Sep 29 19:00:53 God Sep 29 19:01:06 You're welcome, lardman. Sep 29 19:01:08 in a rig with switches Sep 29 19:01:11 to detect side to side Sep 29 19:01:13 multi shot Sep 29 19:01:15 cool stuff Sep 29 19:01:17 qwerty12_N810: aka Gos? Sep 29 19:01:19 lcuk, do you have an idea ? Sep 29 19:01:27 mybad: I imagine they will be closed Sep 29 19:01:33 lardman: Of course :) Sep 29 19:01:37 ;) Sep 29 19:01:51 if htey are listed, they should be available tho Sep 29 19:01:56 ie: http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/diablo/sp-endurance/ Sep 29 19:01:57 lardman, i have read the source code of most of them, but the links i've got in the past are dead links now Sep 29 19:02:08 it makes no sense to document but not deploy Sep 29 19:02:10 mybad: http://maemo.org/development/tools/#apt-example Sep 29 19:02:15 there are the dl instructions Sep 29 19:02:27 mybad: oh I see Sep 29 19:02:31 and fremantle is binary compatible with diablo for most of those tools Sep 29 19:02:36 would those tools work elsewhere Sep 29 19:02:39 :) Sep 29 19:02:49 mindreader! Sep 29 19:03:38 konttori__, thank you, but i don't need them on devide right now, i would like to get the source only Sep 29 19:05:45 mybad: # diablo tools sources Sep 29 19:05:46 deb-src http://repository.maemo.org diablo/tools free non-free Sep 29 19:06:17 konttori__, it will be hard using yum :) Sep 29 19:06:50 type the url manually then Sep 29 19:08:35 lardman, done thank you all for your help Sep 29 19:13:30 am beginning to think that one of the xml parsing libs might be easier than strstr Sep 29 19:13:41 probably. Sep 29 19:13:44 i want to learn xerces Sep 29 19:19:30 ah sod it, sure I can do it by chopping strings up into ever smaller parts, and hope I can keep track of the pointers.... ;) Sep 29 19:26:50 * Jaffa 's Python GUI is coming along :-) Sep 29 19:27:26 I was unaware that Python needed a GUI :p Sep 29 19:28:31 ipython \o/ Sep 29 19:28:32 :-p Sep 29 19:29:27 Jaffa, will your python gui catch criminals? Sep 29 19:30:15 hi im thinking about buying a n900 but i wanna know a few things first, 1, am i able to compile my own software on it? 2. how does packageing work for maemo, what package manager do you use? urls are appricated. thanks Sep 29 19:31:09 yes, though you may want to use a crosscompiler in some cases due to speed Sep 29 19:31:12 and unsure, unsure Sep 29 19:31:51 snaz, it's Debian packaging. Sep 29 19:31:59 snaz, the package manager is hildon-application-manager. Sep 29 19:32:05 Or apt. ;) Sep 29 19:32:14 snaz, yes, compilation is possible, but its not the fastest cpu - depending on size its ideal. size of -dev libraries and whole sdk experience isnt possible. making .deb files is a pita Sep 29 19:32:20 its apt based and uses debs Sep 29 19:32:44 snaz, 1. officially - no. practically - yes, but with pain. 2. deb Sep 29 19:32:52 * lcuk compiles every day on n8x0 and n900 Sep 29 19:34:28 How many hairs do you sacrifice each time? Sep 29 19:35:08 qwerty12_N810: less than crosscompiling Sep 29 19:35:39 :) Sep 29 19:35:59 hi all! Sep 29 19:36:00 http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=368329#368329 Sep 29 19:36:08 Somebody might review that for factual accuracy? ;) Sep 29 19:36:23 s/might/mind/ Sep 29 19:36:23 GeneralAntilles meant: Somebody mind review that for factual accuracy? ;) Sep 29 19:36:47 General: Gross underestimation Sep 29 19:37:05 General: Average package size is something like 750kB-1MB Sep 29 19:37:11 Bets on how long GeneralAntilles will last there w/out getting banned? ;) Sep 29 19:37:13 qwerty12_N810, i lose all my hair tryign to build a package Sep 29 19:37:40 qwerty: he has got good chances Sep 29 19:37:50 RST38h, he said SMALL packages. Sep 29 19:37:59 Ah Sep 29 19:38:07 RST38h, which means less than 500KB based on the optification recommendation. Sep 29 19:38:09 are the default install packages optified Sep 29 19:38:15 Yea, correct Sep 29 19:38:15 things like the libs Sep 29 19:42:22 Jaffa: Oh, regarding the fonts, maemo-optify refuses to work on it so I'll do the optification manually sometime (just need to read CDBS docs... God, I hate that shit) Sep 29 19:45:43 hey! any here knows how to change keyboard layout on easy debian? Sep 29 19:46:02 How do you create a new product under extras on bugs.maemo.org? Sep 29 19:47:29 fiferboy, with blood Sep 29 19:47:34 qwerty I need some better photos of you, so I can make you our court jester Sep 29 19:47:36 see andre__ i tihnk Sep 29 19:47:49 lcuk: Whose blood? Sep 29 19:47:53 yours Sep 29 19:48:02 I had a feeling it would be... Sep 29 19:48:11 well i've already given enough Sep 29 19:48:33 * AndrewFBlack just remembered he was suppose to start working on t.m.o minimalist bugs today Sep 29 19:48:42 fiferboy, where abouts are you Sep 29 19:48:59 lcuk: Globally? Canada. Sep 29 19:49:25 i suppose a council members blood would suffice Sep 29 19:49:29 are you close enough to qole? Sep 29 19:49:36 fiferboy: 66 virgins and a unicorn will do though Sep 29 19:50:02 lcuk: I couldn't be much further from him Sep 29 19:50:11 hey its 65 virgins, you were trying to get one for yourself RST38h Sep 29 19:50:16 RST38h: What about 66 unicorns and a virgin? Sep 29 19:50:28 Are they virgin unicorns? Sep 29 19:50:29 i bet qole says the same about you! Sep 29 19:50:36 fiferboy: That will only give a hooves and a horn Sep 29 19:50:39 fiferboy, what product do you need creating? Sep 29 19:50:50 GeneralAntilles: Countdown Home, for the moment Sep 29 19:51:00 There will likely be others coming up soon :) Sep 29 19:51:10 fiferboy, give me about 15 minutes to finish drooling over my new SSD. ;) Sep 29 19:51:16 ROFL "Oh man.... Sep 29 19:51:16 All this time, in the Finnish Maemo offices, you've been called "El Cock"? " Sep 29 19:51:24 GeneralAntilles: Thanks :D Sep 29 19:51:28 I'm sorry that's hilarious Sep 29 19:51:30 * lcuk facepalms Sep 29 19:51:31 no offense Sep 29 19:51:35 lcuk: I am probably closer to GeneralAntilles than to Qole Sep 29 19:51:39 finnish maemo offices? Sep 29 19:51:42 wth is that? Sep 29 19:51:43 the chicken? Sep 29 19:51:45 I want to go! Sep 29 19:52:07 fiferboy, sacrificing me will do you no good! I'm not on the council anymore. Sep 29 19:52:08 dantonic, yes, i can imagine my name being brought up in very serious business meetings Sep 29 19:52:08 Muahaha Sep 29 19:52:09 beware, el cock might find you Sep 29 19:52:34 GeneralAntilles: Curses! I could send you to a Rays game, though Sep 29 19:52:35 GeneralAntilles, sacrificing you will happen anyway Sep 29 19:52:37 lcuk <3 Sep 29 19:52:43 you are to be stuffed and mounted Sep 29 19:52:56 maybe in a different order Sep 29 19:53:13 fiferboy, did you say Rays game? Sep 29 19:53:26 GeneralAntilles: its apt? :D thats great Sep 29 19:53:39 snaz, Maemo is mostly just Debian. Sep 29 19:53:44 GeneralAntilles: You are near there, are you not? Sep 29 19:53:51 snaz, with a lot of mobile (i.e., battery life) friendly tinkering on top. Sep 29 19:54:01 fiferboy, I live like 5 minutes away from Tropicana. Sep 29 19:54:20 lets say i want to compile firefox, or whatever, would i just apt-get source packagename? Sep 29 19:54:29 el pollo loco en la cabasa Sep 29 19:54:37 snaz, for the most part. Sep 29 19:54:40 si penguinbait Sep 29 19:54:44 GeneralAntilles: You should go next time they play the Jays to see two teams with no hopes of post season play for the next 5 years Sep 29 19:54:46 snaz, in the sdk yes you can try Sep 29 19:54:53 penguinbait: el pollo diablo Sep 29 19:55:07 oooooh the chicken devil Sep 29 19:55:08 i guess ill buy a n900 then Sep 29 19:55:17 i hope its open enough for me not to get annoyed Sep 29 19:55:27 fiferboy: It could be worse. My local team is the Nationals. Sep 29 19:55:28 cos it costs a hellovalot Sep 29 19:55:34 derf: Ouch! Sep 29 19:55:35 i wanna run stuff like irssi Sep 29 19:55:35 if its not, you can always get a screwdriver Sep 29 19:55:44 im scared to search google for el coq Sep 29 19:55:54 le Sep 29 19:56:10 fiferboy, stupid Rays. :( Sep 29 19:56:21 lcuk: it's safe: google images just returns your avatar Sep 29 19:56:28 n900 looks very nice, it has very nice hardware Sep 29 19:56:36 i love the keyboard Sep 29 19:56:40 + touchscreen Sep 29 19:56:45 GeneralAntilles: They had a shot, but it looks like they'll need to wait awhile before returning Sep 29 19:56:54 and if i can use the debian repos thats amazing Sep 29 19:56:59 fiferboy, yeah, doesn't help that the Yankees have a bullpen this year. ;) Sep 29 19:57:02 it brings up stuff with chickens on it Sep 29 19:57:05 * GeneralAntilles goes down for a drive upgrade. Sep 29 19:57:26 haha Sep 29 19:57:35 lcuk: what is this facination about chickens? Sep 29 19:57:48 el pollo loco en la cabasa Sep 29 19:57:49 nothing :$ Sep 29 19:57:58 snaz: usign debian repos in what? debian? Sep 29 19:58:00 its these guys Sep 29 19:58:01 the chicken is crazy in the head Sep 29 19:58:05 he has a crazy chicken in his head Sep 29 19:58:10 in his head Sep 29 19:58:17 snaz: he shagged one the other day and he wants to see what his future son/daughter will look like Sep 29 19:58:17 !! Sep 29 19:58:21 !! Sep 29 19:58:32 snaz: the fact that maemo happens to use debian styled repositories and uses apt and all, doesn't mean that the systems are interoperable Sep 29 19:58:42 but you *had* to know that already, right? Sep 29 19:58:53 remember Gonzo the muppet Sep 29 19:58:56 Myrtti, it works for some things Sep 29 19:59:02 he was a chicken plucker!! Sep 29 19:59:04 its not a 100% match Sep 29 19:59:06 Myrtti: does the n900 not use like a arm6 or something Sep 29 19:59:17 Myrtti: i thought perhaps the platform was supported Sep 29 19:59:22 lcuk: "warranty void if seal is broken" DO NOT CLUB THE SEAL TO DEATH Sep 29 19:59:30 :( Sep 29 19:59:54 :( Sep 29 20:00:01 people who club seals must be psychopaths becuase they are able to kill cuteness Sep 29 20:00:39 Wait? Didn't fiferboy say he was from Canada? Let's club him! Sep 29 20:00:56 I don't know what the situation is with maemo, but I know that if someone is running ubuntu and makes the mistake of installing debian packages into it, the community silently walks away and in general the opinion is "you deserve all the problems you're having with your system" Sep 29 20:01:07 we should train lions to keep seals safe in exchange for fish Sep 29 20:01:12 qwerty12_N810: I'll have you know I only ever club seals in self defense Sep 29 20:01:13 probably goes the other way around too Sep 29 20:01:43 nahhh Myrtti people around debian walk away anyway ;) Sep 29 20:01:51 would i have root on a n900 ? Sep 29 20:01:52 have you seen how vicious they are in #debian lol Sep 29 20:01:59 snaz, sure Sep 29 20:02:09 lcuk: guess why I've used Ubuntu since 2005 February? Sep 29 20:02:23 http://www.maplandia.com/haiti/centre/el-coq/ Sep 29 20:02:41 lcuk: without cracking it somehow? Sep 29 20:02:52 that is the mine tracy will have me working in if i dont find a job :'( Sep 29 20:02:58 any word on when I can buy an N900 here in the USA? Sep 29 20:02:58 snaz: This isn't OS X Sep 29 20:03:06 range: ? Sep 29 20:03:10 snaz, gainroot is one of the first packages to enter extras :) Sep 29 20:03:15 snaz: So no, you don't have to break it. Sep 29 20:03:18 ok cool Sep 29 20:03:20 :) Sep 29 20:03:20 or whatever its name is Sep 29 20:03:30 Myrtti: Club Sandwiches, not cheese. Sep 29 20:03:31 'this is not symbian' Sep 29 20:03:34 Wow. Sep 29 20:03:35 would have been more appropriate Sep 29 20:03:37 *not seals Sep 29 20:03:38 you might not like that bits of the system are closed, but its far from the norm Sep 29 20:04:00 Does symbian have the concept of "root"? Sep 29 20:04:12 symbian is annoying Sep 29 20:04:25 it smells like windows Sep 29 20:04:39 lemony? Sep 29 20:04:43 snaz: is that "it smells, like windows" ? Sep 29 20:04:58 windows[tm] Sep 29 20:05:15 not clean windows with windowlene? Sep 29 20:05:24 * lbt likes windows Sep 29 20:05:35 * snaz does not Sep 29 20:05:42 * lbt bought a window the other day Sep 29 20:05:47 first one ever Sep 29 20:05:47 http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-clean-windows-with-lemon Sep 29 20:05:56 stone broke the old one :( Sep 29 20:06:10 aww :( Sep 29 20:06:30 broken windows are pretty :) Sep 29 20:06:33 lbt, what were you doing throwing stones indoor Sep 29 20:06:38 we told you it would be bad Sep 29 20:06:45 how do you keep maemo update Sep 29 20:06:53 does it have apt-get ? Sep 29 20:06:54 stones/helicopters... Sep 29 20:06:59 snaz: yes Sep 29 20:07:00 o_O Sep 29 20:07:26 i wonder how much the n900 will cost Sep 29 20:07:37 £30/month Sep 29 20:07:40 i saw in pounds it was like 500 quid Sep 29 20:07:45 month? Sep 29 20:07:48 why wonder? prices have been announced Sep 29 20:07:54 18month contract Sep 29 20:08:03 UK has got it easy Sep 29 20:08:08 you have to have a contract? Sep 29 20:08:15 'unlimited' web Sep 29 20:08:21 is it not possible to just buy it without Sep 29 20:08:22 no but then it is not "free" Sep 29 20:08:30 but I think they differentiate between web/internet Sep 29 20:08:41 Stskeeps: Intriguing video that yerga's pointed at thaere Sep 29 20:08:45 lbt: that will limit device capabitlities Sep 29 20:08:54 I did wonder Sep 29 20:08:57 * snaz agrees with Jaffa Sep 29 20:09:04 I've never bought a mobile :) Sep 29 20:09:14 so have no clue about plans etc :( Sep 29 20:09:27 snaz: germany 500 euro - 600 euro without contract Sep 29 20:09:27 lbt: do you steal them? Sep 29 20:09:38 snaz: shh Sep 29 20:09:39 johnsq: 600 is alot of money for a phone Sep 29 20:09:44 * lbt has a bag full Sep 29 20:09:54 7 6310s...!! Sep 29 20:10:19 still it seems worth it Sep 29 20:10:19 snaz: yes. but already 100 euro down Sep 29 20:10:26 Jaffa: hmm? Sep 29 20:10:33 yeah buy the time i have the money its gonna be alot cheaper Sep 29 20:10:52 Stskeeps: http://blip.tv/file/2659691 Sep 29 20:10:58 but then exactly when i buy it, there will be a new phone Sep 29 20:11:02 its so annoying Sep 29 20:11:03 it's still less than a N97 Sep 29 20:11:04 Stskeeps: Assuming there aren't two Carsten Munks in the world Sep 29 20:11:10 i had the n95 Sep 29 20:11:17 i do not like it Sep 29 20:11:22 I still have N95 and I love it Sep 29 20:11:26 so i did not get the n97 Sep 29 20:11:34 jaffa, thesis work if it is the physio stuff Sep 29 20:11:35 Myrtti: its so slow it makes me wanna kill myself Sep 29 20:11:48 i gave mine away to my brother Sep 29 20:11:50 N97 has nothing to do with N95 Sep 29 20:11:53 n97 doesn't have much to do with n95, different form factor for starters Sep 29 20:12:04 Myrtti: But they are both mobile computers! Sep 29 20:12:04 symbian Sep 29 20:12:06 same crap Sep 29 20:12:10 same hype machine Sep 29 20:12:10 next step from N95 is N86 Sep 29 20:12:14 Stskeeps: "Fremantle desktop, sw rendering, N800" Sep 29 20:12:23 Jaffa: Mesa Sep 29 20:12:32 is n900 running x ? Sep 29 20:12:40 jaffa, yeah, my work Sep 29 20:12:43 oh christ, this stupidity is mindboggling Sep 29 20:12:46 * Myrtti goes to bed Sep 29 20:12:58 Jaffa: and the current git snapshot of mesa has gles1.2 :) Sep 29 20:13:37 what kind of window manager does maemo use? Sep 29 20:13:44 MATCHBOX Sep 29 20:14:09 ah Sep 29 20:14:27 what language? Sep 29 20:14:34 lbt: Shiny Sep 29 20:14:47 *nod* Sep 29 20:14:49 snaz: C, Python and C++ are the biggest languages Sep 29 20:15:03 nice Sep 29 20:15:11 it's in gitorious now (I think - it's on my machine anyhow) Sep 29 20:15:34 seems pretty mature Sep 29 20:16:08 ok i will concider this for out mobile platform Sep 29 20:17:09 snaz: Maemo's been out for nearly 4 years (first release back in Nov 2005); so everything's pretty tried out now Sep 29 20:17:43 and for the n810 no good applications. Sep 29 20:17:55 are you using dbus? Sep 29 20:18:14 i think jaffa gets dtrain Sep 29 20:18:24 but, yes Sep 29 20:18:27 lcuk: tsk ;-) Sep 29 20:18:27 lcuk: har-har Sep 29 20:18:43 * Jaffa gets dcar, dtrain and dtube Sep 29 20:19:32 snaz, for long term, you have to consider nokia have qt designated as principle toolkit of the next os Sep 29 20:19:56 hmm, qt seems to be growing Sep 29 20:20:13 you mentioned platform - what sorts of apps if you dont mind Sep 29 20:21:15 hardware related, using gps, touchscreen, organizing systems, music/synthesizers/sequencers Sep 29 20:21:24 whatever i feel like really Sep 29 20:21:28 cool Sep 29 20:21:40 i tried openmoko Sep 29 20:21:54 its just passed an exceptional test in realtime performance stuff - using opensoundcontrol Sep 29 20:21:57 the freerunner phone Sep 29 20:22:09 i like the concept but still the phone is too slow to do anything fun Sep 29 20:22:30 nokia hardwaresupport tends to be good from my experience. only problems i had where with symbian Sep 29 20:22:52 i need to look into the sound card specifications of the n900 Sep 29 20:23:14 lcuk: really? Sep 29 20:23:28 yeah Sep 29 20:23:31 just a mo Sep 29 20:23:46 so i would need to port a few stuff Sep 29 20:23:46 http://maemo.nokia.com/videos/ Sep 29 20:24:01 and it has a lot of dependencies Sep 29 20:24:02 snaz: s/few/all Sep 29 20:24:10 but might be in the debian repo Sep 29 20:24:16 yeah i dragged one of the opensoundcontrol libs across and we used the 900 to control a massive interactive display Sep 29 20:24:30 if i can use apt-get source then im all god Sep 29 20:24:32 good Sep 29 20:24:39 cos what idont want to be doing is dependency hunting Sep 29 20:24:46 i hate that so much it makes me want to die Sep 29 20:24:55 ive done that enough back in the day Sep 29 20:24:56 flawless hardware - excellent technilogy and had a wonderful reception from the public Sep 29 20:25:09 technology even Sep 29 20:25:16 techmology Sep 29 20:25:34 shmology Sep 29 20:25:47 lcuk sykwakler Sep 29 20:25:55 heh Sep 29 20:27:30 *g* Sep 29 20:27:45 anything is better than the other name atm lol Sep 29 20:28:09 Shut up, El Coq Sep 29 20:28:25 * lcuk bans you from any summit ever Sep 29 20:28:45 and gives you an invitation back into *that* chan Sep 29 20:28:46 lcuk, you'll always be el-cuck to me. ;) Sep 29 20:28:59 awww thanks gan Sep 29 20:29:30 * lcuk makes his download download faster Sep 29 20:34:02 lcuk jedi power? Sep 29 20:34:29 i have an obi-wan robe and a light sabre :$ Sep 29 20:52:12 I put on my cape and wizard cap Sep 29 20:53:00 It's actually a robe. Sep 29 20:53:11 and a hat Sep 29 20:53:24 But nevertheless, I like to play dress up. Sep 29 20:53:25 yeah yeah bloodninja Sep 29 21:03:11 Hey can I video call with google talk from my N800? Sep 29 21:04:03 no Sep 29 21:04:04 To other N800s, yes Sep 29 21:04:16 not to google talk on a pc Sep 29 21:04:20 or n810/N900 Sep 29 21:04:35 yeah Sep 29 21:04:59 you can video call a pc with gizmo iirc Sep 29 21:05:11 i know i did once, but it was with a beta gizmo for pc that they later pulled... Sep 29 21:05:27 but i'd hope they've released it by now Sep 29 21:05:40 quality really blows though, i did try that too. Sep 29 21:05:56 yeah Sep 29 21:06:28 poor n800 can't handle video+audio compression well together, i guess Sep 29 21:07:32 :( but why Sep 29 21:07:36 how sad Sep 29 21:07:49 hey Sep 29 21:07:56 I didn't think it was too bad, if the network holds up Sep 29 21:07:57 i got a processing email from ai Sep 29 21:08:24 what if I put a google talk friend on gizmo still can't do it? Sep 29 21:08:30 I mean add a friend Sep 29 21:12:15 lardman i tested it on lan of course Sep 29 21:12:51 I used it on a dodgy connection in India talking to my wife in England, wasn't great, but worked Sep 29 21:13:16 Dantonic i think google uses something propriatary for voice/video - you can do xmpp with any client on n8xx, but video/audio are not compatible Sep 29 21:13:36 not propriatary, but not widely supported either Sep 29 21:13:54 jingle, more specificaly Sep 29 21:14:28 hm... Sep 29 21:15:24 upon more reading, it should work :) Sep 29 21:18:35 lcuk: Sep 29 21:18:38 lcuk: ping even Sep 29 21:18:40 :) Sep 29 21:27:24 hmm, libcurl doesn't seem able to download pages that don't either have a name or a trailing slash Sep 29 21:27:44 e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ works, but http://www.bbc.co.uk doesn't Sep 29 21:27:51 hm Sep 29 21:27:56 maybee its documented Sep 29 21:28:11 yeah, just looking through now Sep 29 21:28:22 doens't help with the odd Amazon urls anyway Sep 29 21:29:09 http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/simple.html seems to say that it should work mind you Sep 29 21:30:03 am getting CURLE_COULDNT_RESOLVE_HOST Sep 29 21:35:19 has anyone heard of any privacy/security framework on maemo5 ? Sep 29 21:37:36 interesting, that example I linked above also fails with the same error message Sep 29 21:37:42 not the best choice of example me thinks Sep 29 21:43:42 hmm, very odd Sep 29 21:43:44 Hmm, if I want to show a HildonEntry as being disabled, set_property('editable', false) doesn't seem to do it. It *becomes* uneditable but it looks unchanged Sep 29 21:43:51 must be something wrong on my end I'd assume Sep 29 21:45:50 sure you got net access where you compile? Sep 29 21:46:18 err, run even Sep 29 21:46:30 yeah, that's what screwed up that test Sep 29 21:46:40 strange though Sep 29 21:47:10 Aha! The "sensitive" property is what I want Sep 29 21:47:50 this won't work though, but no error messages: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m7ce16a0a Sep 29 21:47:59 I wonder if the code isn#t handling redirects Sep 29 21:50:06 damn Sep 29 21:50:18 * crashanddie just noticed his company lost a pretty major case Sep 29 21:52:47 lardman: did you forget to set CURLOPT_ERRORBUFFER? Sep 29 21:52:48 not the one you were singlehandedly handling? Sep 29 21:53:02 frals: do I need to set that? Sep 29 21:53:05 http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/curl_easy_perform.html Sep 29 21:53:28 no I didn't set it, just looked up the error code Sep 29 21:53:49 ah much better Sep 29 21:53:57 didn't have re-directs turned on Sep 29 21:54:10 hehe Sep 29 21:54:15 :) Sep 29 21:54:17 no idea why I was suffering from those CURLE_COULDNT_RESOLVE_HOST errors (from N800 with net connection) Sep 29 21:54:38 Quick poll: preference dialogue containing Twitter username field. Auto-capitalisation on (default for HildonEntry) or off? Sep 29 21:54:41 anyway at least I'm now getting the page I was after rather than an empty buffer :) Sep 29 21:54:49 off Sep 29 21:54:52 off Sep 29 21:55:09 2-0, the off's have it Sep 29 21:55:14 aye Sep 29 21:55:14 carried Sep 29 21:55:18 :) Sep 29 21:55:26 :) Sep 29 21:55:30 you know you'll get a bug filed against that now Sep 29 21:55:52 http://gizmodo.com/5370341/mit-scientist-explains-oleds-by-electrocuting-a-pickle Sep 29 21:56:12 looks pretty Sep 29 21:56:49 hope most screens last longer, with fewer drips and smoke Sep 29 21:56:53 lardman, I don't do law Sep 29 21:57:03 Ah, Symbian. Sep 29 21:57:16 lardman, we filed patent infringement against one of our main competitors (in the smart card market) Sep 29 21:57:23 What's the process to get an application into the Ovi Store, by the way? Sep 29 21:57:37 ovi store? Sep 29 21:58:43 * lardman hopes Amazon don't get annoyed with his continued downloads of a single page Sep 29 21:58:55 GeneralAntilles: https://publish.ovi.com/login Sep 29 21:58:57 (for any ActivIdentity lawyer wanting to sue me for discussing this, it has been made public, everything is public as disclosed by the US District Court of Northern California, as per: http://biddle.us/uploads/Actividentity_11SEP09.pdf) Sep 29 21:59:19 (cover-my-ass-move because this is a logged channel) Sep 29 21:59:21 lardman: one option is to host the file locally while testing the parser etc... ;) Sep 29 21:59:28 crashanddie: and on that note, I'd give up, as lawyers are always most interested trying to pick holes Sep 29 21:59:41 frals, wait, it costs money? Sep 29 21:59:41 frals: indeed, thanks :) Sep 29 22:00:03 GeneralAntilles: yeah :& Sep 29 22:00:04 :/* Sep 29 22:00:09 Hehe Sep 29 22:00:31 FAIL Sep 29 22:00:41 Has NGage died by the way? Sep 29 22:00:56 hmm... VAT registration number in EU or TIN number in India. Must not exceed 20 characters. Sep 29 22:00:57 wtf Sep 29 22:01:43 doesnt really encourage individuals to publish their homemade stuff that way, imo Sep 29 22:01:55 Ah who cares Sep 29 22:02:08 20 chars is quite a few combinations Sep 29 22:02:20 Sep 29 22:02:24 btw ive loaded 3 seconds worth of that oled video now.. was it any good? :P Sep 29 22:02:24 lardman, I recently had a customer for our authentication server Sep 29 22:02:25 RST38h, the My Symbian guy seems to be approaching the whole "but people wont use Extras!" from a Symbian angle. Sep 29 22:02:45 General: fuck him too. Sep 29 22:02:57 RST38h, well, he's not unreasonable. Sep 29 22:03:02 extras is enabled in the app manager isnt it? Sep 29 22:03:03 lardman, they asked us to modify the product so that they could create usernames of unlimited length, their actual DB is scoped to support usernames of up to 91 characters!! Sep 29 22:03:10 I'm just trying to explain the differences in the two platforms. Sep 29 22:03:32 General: exactly. Sep 29 22:03:52 He probably does not know what Extras is, because "people" won't even know where they are downloading from Sep 29 22:04:19 lardman, now, even though I'm very supportive of my customers, I still can't see how they could possibly imagine they're going to need 12812791067037801813535861463920023688420459946581806614898443403166022432027604764790982498471291829168081659764797779319897827300448335930702969743852139590975488 different accounts Sep 29 22:04:23 crashanddie: wow, lots of typing Sep 29 22:04:50 (yes, that's how many accounts you can create with 91 characters in our product) Sep 29 22:04:58 lol Sep 29 22:05:04 but they will only use proper sentences of course Sep 29 22:05:18 for their usernames Sep 29 22:06:15 I love wolfram alpha Sep 29 22:06:21 gives you the most useless comparisons Sep 29 22:06:30 it just told me that the number above is roughly ~~ 2.8x10^(-8) x the number of Go positions (~~ 4.6x10^170) Sep 29 22:06:53 crashanddie, for your info, the document "covering your ass" is on US lawbooks. since you are based in the UK - thats not quite the same. Sep 29 22:06:58 stop now and consult a lwyer Sep 29 22:07:44 * crashanddie has an MA in Law from University of Orleans Sep 29 22:07:52 argh, it parsed my local file once, then segfaulted (expected) and now comes up with error #37 Sep 29 22:08:03 CURLE_FILE_COULDNT_READ_FILE (37) Sep 29 22:08:10 is there a listing of components in maemo5 which are non-free/closed source? Sep 29 22:08:22 Hello, can we know for sure that the n900 has ~16 million colours? Sep 29 22:08:24 I'm guessing, lardman, that it can't read the file Sep 29 22:08:39 I know, but I can, so why can't it!? :) Sep 29 22:08:44 hupper, don't think anyone ever stopped to count them Sep 29 22:08:52 lardman, permissions? Sep 29 22:08:58 am root Sep 29 22:09:15 everyone has r anyway Sep 29 22:09:18 lardman, cuz it created some conf file to tell to start at a later point? Sep 29 22:09:28 and it starts from the end? Sep 29 22:09:38 not finding anything else, it says "couldn't read file"? Sep 29 22:09:44 crashanddie, that means yes, right? Sep 29 22:09:45 hmm, I don;t think it's that bright Sep 29 22:09:59 mvz: I wish. Sep 29 22:10:05 lardman, well, it's not bright at all, less than 16M colours Sep 29 22:10:07 mvz: I'd say at least the 3D lib Sep 29 22:10:09 lardman: try strace to look what it does Sep 29 22:10:26 strace into libcurl Sep 29 22:10:30 *shiver* Sep 29 22:10:41 hupper, Nokia is only echoing the spec of the vendor of the screen Sep 29 22:11:01 hupper, so yeah, you can be pretty sure Sep 29 22:11:19 ok thanks didnt see that info on official pages Sep 29 22:11:35 lardman, did the libcurl download to memory work then? Sep 29 22:11:43 lardman: there should be much. only system calls Sep 29 22:11:58 lcuk: yes, once Sep 29 22:12:07 o_O only once Sep 29 22:12:16 * lcuk uses it hundreds of times Sep 29 22:12:27 luke-jr: some unofficial voices pointed me to imagination GPU drivers, cellular modem firmware, wifi firmware, battery monitoring driver and of course some userspace stuff (skype, flash, etc) Sep 29 22:12:33 anyway, I'm out Sep 29 22:12:37 take care people Sep 29 22:12:51 actually, there is quite a lot Sep 29 22:12:53 still running now Sep 29 22:13:00 luke-jr: would be nice to have a clearer picture though :) Sep 29 22:13:02 gnite seb Sep 29 22:13:08 night crashanddie Sep 29 22:13:51 nn crashanddie Sep 29 22:14:02 opens GTK stuff too, which is the problem I imagine Sep 29 22:14:09 maemo as shipped on n900 seems to be the most free/open mobile platform by far, even if there is still some way to go. at least nokia seems to "get it" :) Sep 29 22:14:10 mvz: gps Sep 29 22:26:05 mvz: if that were all, I might even consider buying one if it was priced lower Sep 29 22:26:18 mvz: but I imagine "battery monitoring driver" means "battery charger" Sep 29 22:26:42 mvz: PC-Z1's platform is more open, isn't it? Sep 29 22:26:46 that one should be relatively easy to reverse engineer though ;) Sep 29 22:26:57 eek Sep 29 22:27:24 doh! user error as ever on my part Sep 29 22:27:34 * lcuk gets you some wine Sep 29 22:28:19 luke-jk: just found a recent thread on "How much are Nxxx open?" on maemo-developers with some more information, and some bits of (still) educated guessing Sep 29 22:28:32 sleep would probably be better tbh Sep 29 22:28:38 * lcuk nods Sep 29 22:29:50 any idea why sound on n810/maemo is broken? speaker and headphones are dead. Sep 29 22:30:18 volume? Sep 29 22:30:18 * lcuk ducks Sep 29 22:30:48 lcuk: advance control and app are at highest level Sep 29 22:31:06 johnsq, windows solution - tried rebooting? Sep 29 22:31:08 gentoo works Sep 29 22:31:24 arg Sep 29 22:33:22 lcuk: yea windows way, reflash = new install Sep 29 22:33:36 looking forward to n900 availability in germany, I'm fairly excited to get one :) Sep 29 22:37:28 night all :) Sep 29 22:38:31 lbt, wait...... Sep 29 22:38:36 k Sep 29 22:38:55 lbt, saw the schedule ? ;) Sep 29 22:39:04 mmm Sep 29 22:39:45 :) Sep 29 22:40:01 +1 beer for VDVsx :P Sep 29 22:40:03 thank you very much :) Sep 29 22:40:11 * lbt thinks so... Sep 29 22:40:17 lbt, np Sep 29 22:40:29 still writing talks... Sep 29 22:40:42 trying to get johan to collab on the git too Sep 29 22:40:52 sadly I have a job atm Sep 29 22:40:55 :( Sep 29 22:41:06 * lbt preferred being unemployed Sep 29 22:41:17 but my bank didn't :D Sep 29 22:41:48 night all (again) Sep 29 22:44:47 aah, all working now, thanks all Sep 29 22:47:23 haha Sep 29 22:47:29 those damn banks Sep 29 22:52:11 Gah, bah, humbug. Having threading issue with gtk Sep 29 22:55:32 have you init'd them? Sep 29 22:57:24 * lardman realises he hadn't called g_thread_init() Sep 29 22:59:14 gtk.gdk.threads_init() Sep 29 22:59:49 what toy are you making this time jaffa? Sep 29 22:59:52 First thing the thread does via gobject.idle_add seems fine, but the second; when I use gtk.Dialog rather than hildon.banner returns from run() but the mainloop seems to stop Sep 29 23:00:03 lcuk: GUI for my Facebook/Twitter info thing -> EDS Sep 29 23:00:31 you can't interact with the GUI from a thread Sep 29 23:00:43 or at least you're not supposed to Sep 29 23:01:06 because the user on his thread can do something to the ui whilst the other thread is working Sep 29 23:01:07 lardman: Indeed. That's why I'm using gobject.idle_add and doing the work in the main thread Sep 29 23:01:11 and then the universe implodes Sep 29 23:01:17 ah I see Sep 29 23:02:16 * Jaffa sticks another gtk.main() in, just to see what happens Sep 29 23:03:42 Hmm, that makes it work. How odd. Sep 29 23:03:48 * lardman wonders if there's any way to get the gstreamer pipeline to work decently Sep 29 23:04:11 Yay. Seems all good. Sep 29 23:04:21 :) Sep 29 23:04:27 Ish. Sep 29 23:05:04 ah, well then no point fiddling with priorities then: http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-Threads.html#g-thread-init Sep 29 23:05:12 "On some systems (e.g. Linux) there are no thread priorities." Sep 29 23:08:35 * lardman wonders if he should plonk a g_thread_yield() right in the middle of the libdmtx code Sep 29 23:10:05 night all Sep 29 23:16:06 Hi guys, I'm trying to find some information in regards to this... Since Nokia now owns the Qt toolkit, and I think I've heard about Maemo moving from GTK+ to Qt in the future, does anyone know if the updated Maemo (with Qt) software will be made available to older phones (i.e. the N900 at that point in time)? Sep 29 23:16:48 ArtVanda1ae: Qt is already available for the N900 Sep 29 23:16:52 And the N810 Sep 29 23:17:44 Thanks Jaffa . The Maemo interface though, is that currently using GTK+ though? Sep 29 23:18:04 ArtVanda1ae: 99.99% of apps on Maemo are GTK+, yes. Sep 29 23:18:32 ArtVanda1ae: Some of the desktop is done using Clutter, a few apps are Qt, Ovi Maps seems to be something non-Gtk+ (for example) Sep 29 23:18:43 Alright thanks Jaffa Sep 29 23:20:45 ovi market? Sep 29 23:20:54 wtf is an ovi market Sep 29 23:21:15 A place where you go to buy Ovis Sep 29 23:22:49 did I heard Ovnis ? :P (PT for UFO) Sep 29 23:29:53 /query zerojay Sep 29 23:29:59 heh Sep 29 23:30:22 fail Sep 29 23:30:39 rtcomm doesn't do query... Sep 29 23:31:15 im surprised any human can remember the /commands to type manually lol Sep 29 23:31:44 I think that is the only one I know! Sep 29 23:31:51 besides nick and quit Sep 29 23:31:54 haha how are you tonight Sep 29 23:32:13 i have an X and i click my nick to change it :$ Sep 29 23:32:26 Good. I'm actually on my way out for about an hour Sep 29 23:32:32 I should be on later Sep 29 23:32:41 im munching hula hoops and gonna try sometihng Sep 29 23:32:55 sleeping soon tho Sep 29 23:32:58 I don't know what any of that meant Sep 29 23:33:05 :D Sep 29 23:33:08 sleep I understand Sep 29 23:33:12 hula hoops == crisps Sep 29 23:33:23 munching == eating Sep 29 23:33:30 crisps == chips Sep 29 23:33:44 no, i had chips with my tea Sep 29 23:33:53 (had fish and chips, was lovely) Sep 29 23:33:56 chips == fries Sep 29 23:34:04 ish Sep 29 23:34:32 we need star trek autotranslator Sep 29 23:34:50 we had a cousin from England staying with us a couple weeks ago Sep 29 23:35:01 'rubbish' was his favourite word Sep 29 23:35:30 haha Sep 29 23:35:38 Oops, I'm off Sep 29 23:35:45 Talk to you latee Sep 29 23:35:50 cya fifer Sep 29 23:35:53 s/latee/later/ Sep 29 23:35:53 fiferboy_n810 meant: Talk to you later Sep 29 23:36:02 :) Sep 29 23:36:05 lcuk, you're the only human here. Sep 29 23:36:08 its ok i understand irc ;) Sep 29 23:36:16 o_O Sep 29 23:36:18 nahh Sep 29 23:36:20 im busy Sep 29 23:36:37 actually trying to work out how to predownload map Sep 29 23:36:41 for amsterdam Sep 29 23:36:51 plan of attack so to speak Sep 29 23:40:05 Just let it handle it on 3G. ;) Sep 29 23:40:48 thats what im afraid of Sep 29 23:40:52 ive got no credit Sep 29 23:41:00 cant afford to get any more Sep 29 23:41:04 so need to predownload Sep 29 23:42:28 * lcuk will be off to the mines soon Sep 29 23:45:06 hello Sep 29 23:46:23 lcuk: Seen the S60 Windows app to predownload Ovi Map data? Presumably it'll stick it on disk somewhere and then it might be copyable Sep 29 23:47:01 Jaffa, i did see it and i might do some poking around Sep 29 23:47:13 im actually used to just getting a big png of the city and using that Sep 29 23:47:33 but amsterdam has lots of tiny tiny streets so it needs to be bigger than usual Sep 29 23:48:47 lcuk: http://europe.nokia.com/explore-services/ovi-maps/downloads-and-services#map-loader-steps Sep 29 23:49:09 I guess all of your are excited about going to amsterdam Sep 29 23:49:15 you* Sep 29 23:49:31 Connect your device to your computer via USB or Bluetooth in PC Suite mode and open Map Loader. Sep 29 23:49:42 Jaffa, it needs to connect properly Sep 29 23:49:54 * lcuk tries Sep 29 23:50:00 lcuk: http://handphone-solution.blogspot.com/2009/07/direct-download-for-ovi-maps-30-without.html Sep 29 23:50:32 I have a question.... Sep 29 23:50:42 yeah Tadthebuilder Sep 29 23:50:42 just ask :) Sep 29 23:50:52 well its actually for you lcuk Sep 29 23:50:52 lcuk: Getting Andorra to test ;-) Sep 29 23:51:21 I know you have been working on a new liqbase Sep 29 23:51:25 will that be for os2008 Sep 29 23:51:30 or only fremantle Sep 29 23:51:51 everything i code (barring the accelerometer) is full compatible with n8x0 :) Sep 29 23:51:54 and diablo Sep 29 23:52:23 ah okay, thats good to know. It has not been released yet has it? (maybe Im blind) I love your old stuff and Id love to try your new stuff Sep 29 23:52:32 it works solidly on n8x0 because i spent a long time during its initial inception with n8x0 :) Sep 29 23:52:39 ah Sep 29 23:52:44 that makes sense. Sep 29 23:52:44 its in a slightly different repository Sep 29 23:52:57 because its not ready - but you are welcome to add the repository and try Sep 29 23:53:06 it runs side by side with the original Sep 29 23:53:07 okay what repository is it in? Sep 29 23:53:14 and the sketches are backwards/forwards compatible Sep 29 23:53:22 maemo extras-devel Sep 29 23:53:35 (ive decided i should try more beta software and report to the makers...haha ive been to much of a leech to the community) Sep 29 23:53:40 okay Sep 29 23:53:52 alright ill add that then. Are you looking for bug reports or anything? Sep 29 23:54:23 it might be a good idea to start Sep 29 23:54:44 a large chunk of the features are there - but the app is being split into multiple distinct apps Sep 29 23:54:48 and thats why ive held off Sep 29 23:54:57 ah I see Sep 29 23:55:14 i have been trying to suss out how all this packaging stuff fits together Sep 29 23:55:16 I thought I read something about the that on talk.maemo.org when I did search to see if I could find the program Sep 29 23:55:42 yeah - the one major problem i found with the first version Sep 29 23:55:58 was having to step over things and worry about other pieces of apps Sep 29 23:56:05 when they didnt have anything to do with each other Sep 29 23:56:21 I could see that being a problem Sep 29 23:56:24 (im not a coder, but I get what your saying) Sep 29 23:56:41 so multiple more streamedline apps tied together with a interface may be more efficient? Sep 29 23:56:50 lcuk: Taking the Andorra zip off that page, unzipping it to cities/ (but not overwriting stuff already there) lets me zoom *right* in to a small street in Andorra, in offline mode. Sep 29 23:57:06 yeah - it means that i could create onedotzero (for instance) without worryign about making changes to calendar Sep 29 23:57:20 Jaffa, :) Sep 29 23:57:24 understood Sep 29 23:57:57 thanks for all the stuff you have done for the platform. Let me know if I can help with anything (test etc) with any of your programs Sep 29 23:58:04 lcuk: searching seems fubar though Sep 29 23:58:14 Im bobthebuilder on talk.maemo.org (bobthebuilder was taken on freenode) Sep 29 23:58:41 lcuk: Does Ovi Maps allow favourites btw? Sep 29 23:58:55 Tadthebuilder, heh :) im sure in the coming weeks ill make another announce of stuff Sep 29 23:58:59 with everything nice and clear Sep 29 23:59:04 Jaffa, not sure Sep 29 23:59:08 only fired it up once Sep 29 23:59:12 when i didnt have net Sep 29 23:59:16 and havent looksed since Sep 29 23:59:40 any way have a nice day/night or whatever time it is where you are. Talk to you later Sep 29 23:59:40 bye Sep 29 23:59:52 thanks bob :) Sep 29 23:59:54 gnite Sep 30 00:00:25 Jaffa, no amsterdam download tho Sep 30 00:00:31 can we coax one out of the server Sep 30 00:01:32 lcuk: There's a Netherlands one Sep 30 00:01:39 lcuk: http://static.s2g.gate5.de/map5/maploaderzip-00.01.22.103/11212.zip Sep 30 00:02:00 just grabbing now to see Sep 30 00:05:18 lcuk: I can't find any way of saving a search; or a location any time I've tried it :( Sep 30 00:05:40 Why aren't I in bed yet? Sep 30 00:05:58 :) Sep 30 00:06:52 are the map folders visible on usb Sep 30 00:07:09 lcuk: yes Sep 30 00:07:19 that might be faster then lol Sep 30 00:08:20 blah Sep 30 00:08:58 thanks jaffa :) i think having you in the community is better than hid away ;) Sep 30 00:09:16 lcuk: ta :) Sep 30 00:09:33 Yay, solved my threading problem: I needed to do gobject.threads_init() not gtk.gdk.threads_init() Sep 30 00:09:44 that helps Sep 30 00:09:54 Hermes is a packaging job away from being testable :-) Sep 30 00:10:05 nice Sep 30 00:10:30 i wonder how much work it would be to optify build-essential Sep 30 00:10:34 and all the -dev libs Sep 30 00:10:49 or just a select few Sep 30 00:13:46 Jaffa, atm, its 80mb just for build-essential Sep 30 00:37:20 hello all Sep 30 00:38:39 hmm no one seems to be here Sep 30 00:39:02 howdy! Sep 30 00:39:08 hey Sep 30 00:39:20 what do you build? Sep 30 00:39:34 I was hoping lcuk was still here, I just downloaded his new liqbase and I love it Sep 30 00:39:36 haha Sep 30 00:39:57 I uh came up with the name bobthebuilder because my nephew was watching it when I first posted on ITT a long time ago Sep 30 00:40:06 I used to be a carpenter and a brick layer myself ;) Sep 30 00:40:08 it just so happens that on freenode bobthebuilder is taken Sep 30 00:40:21 so I use my real nickname here with the builder added Sep 30 00:40:36 Howdy-ho. Sep 30 00:40:48 hello Sep 30 00:40:54 Europeans with their timezone lies are mostly asleep at the moment. Sep 30 00:41:00 have either of you use liqbase playground? Sep 30 00:41:09 ah that could be it...east coast usa, its not even nine yet... Sep 30 00:41:38 you guys actually think i... sleep? Sep 30 00:41:51 lcuk, you are the only human in the room. Sep 30 00:41:53 I would think at some point in time... Sep 30 00:41:57 i cant sleep, tomorrow is the end of my career Sep 30 00:42:02 why is that? Sep 30 00:42:08 long story Sep 30 00:42:13 ah okay. Sep 30 00:42:20 (I just started my career 3 months ago) Sep 30 00:42:30 I just wanted to say I love liqbase playground Sep 30 00:42:41 especially the calendar. Its awesome, a fancy smancy calendar is not needed Sep 30 00:42:44 but that calendar is perfect Sep 30 00:42:54 Last time I lost my job, my salary doubled Sep 30 00:42:56 you are not the only one :) Sep 30 00:43:14 but I am having a light problem with the sketch program Sep 30 00:43:22 I checked to make sure it was not happening in your old sketch program Sep 30 00:43:33 minor graze or deep flesh wound? Sep 30 00:43:41 its because you are in windowed mode Sep 30 00:43:45 the aspect ratio is off Sep 30 00:43:51 I thought that might be the case Sep 30 00:43:52 * GeneralAntilles dies a little inside. Sep 30 00:43:55 http://jalopnik.com/5365954/ten-most-exotic-cars-destroyed-by-cash-for-clunkers/gallery/ Sep 30 00:44:00 A freaking GNX. Sep 30 00:44:02 but the full screen button does not make it go full screen Sep 30 00:44:07 hi! I have a strange idea of application for maemo5! Ask me if it's possible! My idea is to create an application usefull when you lost the phone. You just have to send a SMS code from another phone, and your phone answer automatically by sending geolocalisation in a sms. Sep 30 00:44:16 Talk about political scumbaggery. Sep 30 00:44:17 no, there is a workaround Sep 30 00:44:25 i needed to have it in windowed mode for london Sep 30 00:44:30 "We don't want these evil cars getting back out in the world and causing global warming!" Sep 30 00:44:35 and the n900 - it was a high priority/quick fix :) Sep 30 00:44:42 the art thing with one dot zero? Sep 30 00:44:45 yeah Sep 30 00:44:54 ah okay Sep 30 00:45:01 I was a little worried that my touch screen was going bad Sep 30 00:45:05 I love my n800.... Sep 30 00:45:08 Id cry if it died Sep 30 00:45:10 no, and you arent the only one Sep 30 00:45:23 (cannot afford a n900...Im a pastor dont make much) Sep 30 00:45:48 so can I run it from terminal with a command to make it full screen or anything? Sep 30 00:45:52 are you comfortable editing files Sep 30 00:46:14 theres a config file that can be edited by hand if you are upto it Sep 30 00:46:29 can it be opened with Kate? and edited Sep 30 00:46:29 or bear with me whilst i get these finished http://liqbase.net/liqbase_media.php?username=lcuk&id=369 Sep 30 00:46:32 cause I can do that sorta thing Sep 30 00:47:00 I have in the past atleast Sep 30 00:47:07 well that looks pretty cool Sep 30 00:47:09 im sure you can, but why involve your wife Sep 30 00:47:16 you could make a little cash charging for the accounts. Sep 30 00:47:27 maybe you dont need said career...:) Sep 30 00:47:52 :) there is hope in lots of places Sep 30 00:48:03 took me a second with the wife commment Sep 30 00:48:10 I meant KDE's text editor Sep 30 00:48:20 haha ;) Sep 30 00:48:27 but I think you knew that... Sep 30 00:48:32 ~/.liqbase/liqbase.prefs Sep 30 00:48:49 will it work to copy this over to a computer and edit it there? Sep 30 00:48:52 if the file is there, great - ifnot, ill give you a 3 line one Sep 30 00:48:54 yeah Sep 30 00:49:06 i normally use winscp from xp ;) Sep 30 00:49:49 ubuntu/kubuntu here computer does not like xp...its runs horribley slow on it... Sep 30 00:49:53 not sure why Sep 30 00:50:07 it craves open source obviously :) Sep 30 00:50:21 It *needs* the source. Sep 30 00:50:21 could be the 512 megs of ram and the single core processor Sep 30 00:50:31 special source Sep 30 00:50:40 and the fact that I let someone else use it on the windows partition Sep 30 00:50:45 and their is now tons of spyware and adware Sep 30 00:50:49 and Id rather not worry about it Sep 30 00:50:50 yikes Sep 30 00:50:57 the family all invade this one Sep 30 00:51:05 so I use the ubuntu partition and still access my data Sep 30 00:51:10 firefox is quite good at keeping pesky things away Sep 30 00:51:14 la la la Sep 30 00:51:25 you sound better macer Sep 30 00:51:31 it was a college dorm.....I dont think that would of worked Sep 30 00:51:39 haha Sep 30 00:51:42 no.. i still feel like shit Sep 30 00:51:43 but Sep 30 00:51:47 i made the touchbook batch cut Sep 30 00:51:52 and received a processing email Sep 30 00:51:57 nice Sep 30 00:52:03 "... and will be delivered shortly after." Sep 30 00:52:04 :) Sep 30 00:52:11 hell eyah. been waiting forever to get 8it Sep 30 00:52:24 file is not found Sep 30 00:52:36 the touch books looks awesome Sep 30 00:52:42 except too expensive.... Sep 30 00:52:52 $400? Sep 30 00:53:02 you think that is too expensive? Sep 30 00:53:02 I dont have that type of money to spend on expendably Sep 30 00:53:07 I did not mean Sep 30 00:53:07 # liqbase :: liqbase preferences : 20090922_183456 Sep 30 00:53:07 begin prefs Sep 30 00:53:07 fullscreen=1 Sep 30 00:53:07 end Sep 30 00:53:10 its not priced right Sep 30 00:53:15 heh Sep 30 00:53:16 it is a little more expensive than a typical netbook Sep 30 00:53:26 I meant I cannot afford it Sep 30 00:53:28 omap3 Sep 30 00:53:39 Tadthebuilder, http://maemo.pastebin.com/m60f7fcb8 Sep 30 00:53:45 heh Sep 30 00:53:46 is probably better Sep 30 00:53:49 Right. I'm going to bed. I'm an idiot, since my alarm is going to go off in 4 hours. Sep 30 00:53:50 thats all the file needs Sep 30 00:53:59 okay Sep 30 00:54:03 thankyou very much Sep 30 00:54:06 in /home/user/.liqbase/liqbase.prefs Sep 30 00:54:10 gnite Jaffa Sep 30 00:54:25 which I just realized the file manger will never get to Sep 30 00:54:29 no probs, my silly fault for the change Sep 30 00:54:31 so I have to use the terminal Sep 30 00:54:36 exciting! Sep 30 00:54:38 haha Sep 30 00:54:55 Macer did they fixthe tippin issue with the touch book? Sep 30 00:55:04 Tadthebuilder: from what i hear they added more counterweight Sep 30 00:55:05 you arent the first to say this Sep 30 00:55:09 but who knows ;) Sep 30 00:55:12 and ive pondered a few ways out Sep 30 00:55:23 i'll just velcro it down or something Sep 30 00:55:24 bluetac Sep 30 00:55:33 bluetac? Sep 30 00:55:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-Tack Sep 30 00:55:59 spelt incorrectly Sep 30 00:56:36 ah similar to sticky tack Sep 30 00:56:38 got it Sep 30 00:57:11 how hard would it have been to make the file manager show hidden files if asked too..... Sep 30 00:57:28 yeah Sep 30 00:57:40 linux is a bit spread out for my liking tho too Sep 30 00:57:44 I guess its possible that its really dificult Sep 30 00:57:59 it would just get overwhelming for reg users Sep 30 00:57:59 spread out in what way? the home folder structure? Sep 30 00:58:00 and they would break stuff Sep 30 00:58:04 nah Sep 30 00:58:07 http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html This is clearly the scripting language for the visual generation! Check out the code samples! Sep 30 00:58:09 not just home, but everywhere Sep 30 00:58:11 I hooked my parents up with ubuntu....they are good Sep 30 00:58:12 theres so many corners Sep 30 00:58:29 they dont ever mess with their file system Sep 30 00:58:39 i try not to Sep 30 00:58:41 they install stuff through the add remove programs Sep 30 00:58:46 heh Sep 30 00:58:47 and its good enough for them Sep 30 00:58:49 granted Sep 30 00:59:00 for months and months i couldnt even get liqbase off the machine Sep 30 00:59:00 the only thing they want is email, internet news, and word processing Sep 30 00:59:03 and an occasional video watching Sep 30 00:59:04 eveyrthing was in one folder Sep 30 00:59:14 tucked away nice and simple :) Sep 30 00:59:17 haha Sep 30 00:59:22 I can see your frustration Sep 30 00:59:29 I use it because I dont do much with my comp either Sep 30 00:59:31 typical stuff Sep 30 00:59:40 and I dont have to worry as much about spyware and adware and such Sep 30 01:00:31 yeah, spyware is new really, some days having no net is a good thing Sep 30 01:00:42 its true Sep 30 01:01:07 think gpe file manager can show hidden files? Sep 30 01:01:17 dunno, someone here should tho Sep 30 01:01:17 (I have nnot moved around files in the terminal in forever. Sep 30 01:01:20 or just install and try Sep 30 01:01:28 sounds like a good idea Sep 30 01:01:33 some folks with liqbase create symlinks Sep 30 01:01:45 (I was going to go for a run tonight but your program is distracting me jk) Sep 30 01:01:46 from the hidden folder to somewhere visible Sep 30 01:01:50 okay Sep 30 01:01:53 I could that as an option Sep 30 01:02:00 (symlinks can be very helpful) Sep 30 01:02:44 (it did not distrac me cause of the problem it already distracted me before that...I run outside, its been dark for a bit now. haha) Sep 30 01:03:01 did you find liqtorch? :D Sep 30 01:03:12 yeah Sep 30 01:03:19 that will be helpful Sep 30 01:03:24 when unlocking doors Sep 30 01:03:26 in the dar Sep 30 01:03:27 k Sep 30 01:03:53 yeah its also a great simple code example Sep 30 01:04:21 since you have seen it on n800 Sep 30 01:04:23 is that a hint haha Sep 30 01:04:26 lcuk: the above language is clearly the right language for liqbase scripting :) Sep 30 01:04:32 you can see just how much faster the n900 is Sep 30 01:04:33 http://mynokiablog.com/2009/09/15/video-nokia-n900-presentation-with-gary-birkett-and-liqbase/ Sep 30 01:04:45 Tadthebuilder, it is for certain people Sep 30 01:04:53 its illuminating :) it shows them the way.. Sep 30 01:05:10 SpeedEvil, i agree actually Sep 30 01:05:32 Beautiful - but barking mad. Sep 30 01:05:36 I think id miss the missing parts of the screen on the n900 Sep 30 01:05:47 missing parts of the screen? Sep 30 01:05:52 ahh size Sep 30 01:06:06 yeah sorry Sep 30 01:06:15 I should probably speak standard english, but I mess up some times Sep 30 01:06:29 its ok, i speak northern most of the time Sep 30 01:06:39 Tadthebuilder, everybody who has one has said you don't notice the size change. Sep 30 01:06:48 Tadthebuilder, you have liqbase now Sep 30 01:06:52 it runs in windowed mode Sep 30 01:06:59 that is the same as me running it fullscreen Sep 30 01:07:04 and i mean - the same Sep 30 01:07:05 yes Sep 30 01:07:05 tis true Sep 30 01:07:05 im working on that part.... Sep 30 01:07:17 ah Sep 30 01:07:20 that is interesting Sep 30 01:07:22 dont get me wrong Sep 30 01:07:26 I would love a n900 Sep 30 01:07:38 (should that be "an") Sep 30 01:07:47 heh - it just helps to get a comparison of size with something you use Sep 30 01:07:57 Ill get a used one in a few years when they are on a n2300 Sep 30 01:08:30 the n810 will still be a useful home computer :) Sep 30 01:08:40 too bad i have a n800 Sep 30 01:08:42 :) Sep 30 01:08:48 lol - theres your downfall then Sep 30 01:08:53 those will be gone :P Sep 30 01:08:55 N800 is better then an N810 anyway. ;) Sep 30 01:09:00 who needs a keyboard.... Sep 30 01:09:01 or a gps Sep 30 01:09:06 I have a tom tom for that Sep 30 01:09:12 i needed the square shape Sep 30 01:09:25 okay gpe does not show hidden files Sep 30 01:09:25 the rounded back on the 800 didnt feel/look right Sep 30 01:09:26 grr Sep 30 01:09:33 on to figure out how to do sym links... Sep 30 01:09:41 stop insulting my baby Sep 30 01:09:51 hunchback? Sep 30 01:09:59 can someone please help tad to make a symlink from /home/user/.liqbase to somewhere in MyDocs Sep 30 01:10:12 cos ill write it down too Sep 30 01:10:17 and be able to tell others :) Sep 30 01:10:21 well if lcuk needs it Sep 30 01:10:26 I was just going to google Sep 30 01:10:30 ln -snf /home/user/.liqbase /home/user/MyDocs/blah Sep 30 01:10:33 hoping my googlefu is on to night Sep 30 01:10:42 does blah need to exist Sep 30 01:10:43 is blah a folder or file? Sep 30 01:10:46 lcuk, no Sep 30 01:10:49 Tadthebuilder, teamwork! Sep 30 01:10:57 with maemo you are not alone Sep 30 01:11:07 thanks Firebird Sep 30 01:11:12 so blah is the file? Sep 30 01:11:13 you could just leave out the blah and it will create a symlink named the original Sep 30 01:11:42 which will be a hidden folder still Sep 30 01:11:46 which doesnt help lol :P Sep 30 01:11:57 but in general that helps :) Sep 30 01:12:42 that doesnt need root does it? Sep 30 01:12:50 no Sep 30 01:13:08 so I put the file in documents Sep 30 01:13:16 and then type that line replacing blah Sep 30 01:13:18 with the name of the fiel Sep 30 01:13:24 file* Sep 30 01:13:56 yeah Sep 30 01:14:01 wait what? Sep 30 01:14:05 on my computer tho it just failed *eek* Sep 30 01:14:08 you would overwrite the file Sep 30 01:14:10 ln -snf /home/user/.liqbase /home/user/MyDocs/liqbase_data Sep 30 01:14:15 is what i did Sep 30 01:14:22 there is no file Sep 30 01:14:30 in /home/user/.liqbase Sep 30 01:14:30 [21:13] so I put the file in documents Sep 30 01:14:34 * Firebird is confuzled Sep 30 01:14:41 i want to access the hidden folder .liqbase from a visible folder inside MyDocs Sep 30 01:14:45 ah Sep 30 01:15:01 or rather, tad does Sep 30 01:15:05 sorry to be confusing Sep 30 01:15:05 Im a little out of my league Sep 30 01:15:06 i will later Sep 30 01:15:11 hm, how does product karma work.. Sep 30 01:15:22 ln works like mv Sep 30 01:15:28 ln source destination Sep 30 01:16:03 only on the same partition tho o_O Sep 30 01:16:11 to do it on new pooter it needs moar Sep 30 01:16:12 ln -s is arbitrary Sep 30 01:16:15 it's just a string Sep 30 01:16:41 so, "ln /home/user/.liqbase /home/user/MyDocs/liqbase_data" is all thats needed Sep 30 01:16:43 ln -s /mnt/nfs/whatever/dir dir/ Sep 30 01:17:08 i thought it was called liqbase.pref Sep 30 01:17:15 thats the file Sep 30 01:17:30 you will thank me later when you can get out any pictures you play with or sketches Sep 30 01:17:31 liqbase_data is the folder Sep 30 01:17:40 of course I will Sep 30 01:17:44 thankyou Sep 30 01:17:47 im thanking you now Sep 30 01:17:47 the .liqbase folder is everything lol Sep 30 01:17:52 before you forget Sep 30 01:18:08 ill go thank a bunch of your posts so you get karma Sep 30 01:18:27 lol that scares me - i see it rise but see no recent posts :D Sep 30 01:18:33 woohoo, almost 100 end-user downloads :D Sep 30 01:18:46 Firebird, its a game Sep 30 01:18:51 of course its gonna be downloaded Sep 30 01:19:08 do I first need to make a directory in mydocs called liqbase_data Sep 30 01:19:17 or Sep 30 01:19:20 is that line saying Sep 30 01:19:21 i dont think so Sep 30 01:19:28 mydocuments will be treated as if it were liqbase_data Sep 30 01:20:08 make a fake directory called liqbase_data and when you open that directory show the conents of .liqbase Sep 30 01:20:08 is how i read ln syntax stuff Sep 30 01:20:10 (if I actually learn whats going on here, I learn something, if I just do it I learn nothing...) Sep 30 01:20:31 okay Sep 30 01:20:37 I think I understand whats going on Sep 30 01:20:47 glad one of us does :D Sep 30 01:21:01 * lcuk cuddles windows and its archaic filesystem Sep 30 01:21:05 well Sep 30 01:21:05 ya see Sep 30 01:21:05 im well rested Sep 30 01:21:17 and its not 4 in the morning here Sep 30 01:21:25 that helps - its just past 2 here Sep 30 01:21:32 (I actually have no idea where you are...or what time it is) Sep 30 01:21:40 manchester england Sep 30 01:21:42 its about nine thirty Sep 30 01:21:54 for some reason I did not think your accent was british... Sep 30 01:21:55 21:21 Sep 30 01:21:58 best time of the night - im normally most productive then Sep 30 01:22:01 yes penguinbait Sep 30 01:22:15 2AM here too. Sep 30 01:22:20 penguinbait, hows council training school coming on Sep 30 01:22:21 im est too Sep 30 01:22:24 And I woke up at 1:30 Sep 30 01:22:25 :/ Sep 30 01:22:26 same time zone...haha Sep 30 01:22:47 michigan here Sep 30 01:22:48 * SpeedEvil has _no_ idea when he's going back to sleep. Sep 30 01:23:05 North Carolina Sep 30 01:23:05 small town of 7000 people Sep 30 01:23:11 * lcuk is dreading tomorrow Sep 30 01:23:29 and not sleeping puts off tomorrow seemingly Sep 30 01:23:43 the revolution starts in the morn? Sep 30 01:24:07 the revolution will not be televised Sep 30 01:24:07 Buy some cheese. Everything is better with cheese. Sep 30 01:24:10 i wish it was a revolution Sep 30 01:24:17 I love PE Sep 30 01:24:37 PE? Sep 30 01:24:45 Public Enemy Sep 30 01:24:52 the revolution will not be televised Sep 30 01:25:00 oh haha Sep 30 01:25:04 I remember it from some comercial Sep 30 01:25:08 from the 90's Sep 30 01:25:10 when I was like ten Sep 30 01:25:21 ha Sep 30 01:25:21 did not know it was from Public Enemy Sep 30 01:25:33 youngins Sep 30 01:25:48 penguinbait: It's the 4chan generation. Sep 30 01:25:54 pb, the more local impact of the decision hits tomorrow Sep 30 01:26:00 wait Sep 30 01:26:09 im a little old to be a part of the 4chan generation I think Sep 30 01:26:34 im old enough to do anything but run for president... Sep 30 01:26:38 so, what you are about 17? Sep 30 01:26:40 (and I think maybe senate...) Sep 30 01:26:42 23 Sep 30 01:27:07 my son is 16 Sep 30 01:27:23 my eldest is 14 goin on 20 Sep 30 01:28:02 crazy huh Sep 30 01:28:08 yeah Sep 30 01:28:16 he asked if i wanted a beer tonight Sep 30 01:28:23 not out of the goodness of his heart Sep 30 01:28:33 but because he wanted one himself \@/ Sep 30 01:28:43 okay Sep 30 01:28:50 * lcuk told him he was a cheeky SOB Sep 30 01:28:50 the command you gave me a little earlier Sep 30 01:28:53 says Sep 30 01:28:55 operation not permitted Sep 30 01:28:57 how old r u lcuk? Sep 30 01:29:19 ive never had a beer... Sep 30 01:29:36 (not because I think its wrong, I just dont like the smell) Sep 30 01:29:42 (I might try it one day if I get up the couerage Sep 30 01:29:51 I'v had too much of most everything :( Sep 30 01:30:04 yikes! Sep 30 01:30:12 symlinks to fat drives fail Sep 30 01:30:19 im not old enough to havfe a 14yo Sep 30 01:30:27 wait Sep 30 01:30:31 how is mydocs on a fat ddrive Sep 30 01:30:32 lcuk: Or too old :) Sep 30 01:30:35 shouldnt it be ext? Sep 30 01:30:59 i dunno, how do we find out Sep 30 01:31:04 * lcuk hates rabbit holes Sep 30 01:31:13 its a linux os Sep 30 01:31:16 doesnt it have to run on ext Sep 30 01:31:20 SpeedEvil, dont you read ive got a son that old shurrup Sep 30 01:31:30 I hate red pill's Sep 30 01:31:36 um... Sep 30 01:31:41 red pill mode? Sep 30 01:31:46 nahhh Sep 30 01:31:48 not needed for this Sep 30 01:31:52 Tadthebuilder: personally I'd prefer logfs if it were stable :) Sep 30 01:32:04 Tadthebuilder, needs to be able to hook up to a Windows machine. Sep 30 01:33:27 wait what? Sep 30 01:33:33 I need to use windows? Sep 30 01:33:41 MyDocs needs to be able to be mounted on a Windows machine. Sep 30 01:33:43 Thus, FAT. Sep 30 01:33:55 im confused. Sep 30 01:33:59 balls - so how have people symlinked stuff inthe past Sep 30 01:34:03 * lcuk is too Sep 30 01:34:11 * GeneralAntilles may have lost context somewhere. Sep 30 01:34:16 you can symlink to FAT Sep 30 01:34:18 so things are visible in file manager Sep 30 01:34:20 Why are we wonder why MyDocs is FAT? Sep 30 01:34:24 you can't symlink _on_ FAT Sep 30 01:34:29 the mydocs Sep 30 01:34:31 is on the n800 Sep 30 01:34:39 but the symlink failed Sep 30 01:34:47 operation not permitted Sep 30 01:34:49 I'm unsure how you do 'shortcuts' from linux Sep 30 01:34:51 Oh, MyDocs on Maemo 4 is on the JFFS2 partition. Sep 30 01:35:02 i shall restate the problem - perhaps mydocs was the wrong target Sep 30 01:35:08 Root? ;) Sep 30 01:35:21 there is a folder: /home/user/.liqbase Sep 30 01:35:25 wait Sep 30 01:35:28 do I need to be root Sep 30 01:35:30 it is not visible in the file manager on n810 Sep 30 01:35:32 someone earlier said no... Sep 30 01:35:34 n8x0 Sep 30 01:35:50 i have heard in the past people creating symlinks Sep 30 01:35:57 so that they make this folder visible Sep 30 01:36:11 why do people run from cops on the road in suvs and dirt bikes? Sep 30 01:36:14 what the hell Sep 30 01:36:18 GO OFF ROAD! Sep 30 01:36:38 why does my heart race like I am a criminal when they pull behind me? Sep 30 01:36:41 sudo gainroot tried again Sep 30 01:36:49 still operation not permitted Sep 30 01:36:49 penguinbait, because you are a criminal. Sep 30 01:36:54 penguinbait: Because of the body in your trunk? Sep 30 01:37:01 penguinbait, in this post-911 world, everybody's a criminal. Sep 30 01:37:18 Tadthebuilder, i get no error if i remove the MyDocs folder Sep 30 01:37:26 but i dont know if thats accessible in your file manager Sep 30 01:37:30 meaning put it in home user Sep 30 01:37:30 ie: ln -s /home/user/.liqbase /home/user/liqbase_data Sep 30 01:37:31 could be because my ex and her boyfriend are cops Sep 30 01:37:58 (am I a nerd if my n800 is called shuttlepod and my desktop the enterprise...) Sep 30 01:38:08 wait Sep 30 01:38:10 o_O you can name your tablet stuff Sep 30 01:38:11 I think we want Documents Sep 30 01:38:29 not MyDocs Sep 30 01:38:32 where is MyDocs? Sep 30 01:38:43 * doc|home stabs Sep 30 01:39:17 okay Sep 30 01:39:18 its on my N900 :% sorry it must be a new layout Sep 30 01:39:23 wait Sep 30 01:39:27 I found it in gpe file manager Sep 30 01:39:36 but the one that comes with the n800 says Documents Sep 30 01:39:38 without all this messin? Sep 30 01:40:00 * lcuk is glad his mind is taken off things Sep 30 01:40:03 nono Sep 30 01:40:10 I found MYDocs in gpe Sep 30 01:40:13 not the file Sep 30 01:40:25 and home/user Sep 30 01:40:28 so let me try that Sep 30 01:40:40 penguinbait, you are a criminal Sep 30 01:42:08 as in its criminal how awesome I am? Sep 30 01:42:49 s\awesome\insane\ Sep 30 01:43:06 if it worked Sep 30 01:43:06 or however im meant to do regex :D Sep 30 01:43:12 should it of given me any feedback? Sep 30 01:43:29 no, close app and reopen Sep 30 01:43:45 * lcuk hates fiddling Sep 30 01:44:21 okay Sep 30 01:44:29 inside /home/user Sep 30 01:44:34 there is what appear Sep 30 01:44:36 s Sep 30 01:44:38 to be a fiel Sep 30 01:44:40 file* Sep 30 01:44:45 called liqbase_data Sep 30 01:44:49 its 18 bytes Sep 30 01:44:56 that should be a folder Sep 30 01:45:05 I was expecting a folder... Sep 30 01:45:05 was I wrong to expect a folder Sep 30 01:45:22 um... Sep 30 01:45:57 symbolic link /home/user/liqbase_data leads to inaccessable file! Sep 30 01:46:07 (the error even has the exclamation point Sep 30 01:46:13 o_O Sep 30 01:46:36 wait Sep 30 01:46:42 let me check my typing skills Sep 30 01:46:43 i just cd'ed into mine Sep 30 01:46:51 ln -s /home/user/.liqbase /home/user/liqbase_data Sep 30 01:46:55 and it worked Sep 30 01:47:09 cd /home/user/liqbase_data Sep 30 01:47:13 ls Sep 30 01:47:22 cal historythumb layouts liqbase.prefs liqbasecache ratings sketches tags thumbs Sep 30 01:47:38 its my fault Sep 30 01:47:40 typo Sep 30 01:47:44 :D Sep 30 01:47:44 but I need to delete the file Sep 30 01:47:50 and it wont delete Sep 30 01:48:46 maybe I should give up for the evening Sep 30 01:49:02 unlink symbolic_link Sep 30 01:49:17 is that literally a command Sep 30 01:49:19 mmm noit there Sep 30 01:49:21 lol Sep 30 01:49:36 you can just delete the simlink, make sure you don't have a trailing / though if its a folder Sep 30 01:49:38 * lcuk is just as frustrated Sep 30 01:50:37 terminal command to delete? Sep 30 01:50:58 rm liqbase_data without the / Sep 30 01:51:01 what can I say im a gui guy Sep 30 01:51:13 * lcuk sits with Tad Sep 30 01:51:17 i hate console Sep 30 01:51:35 * Firebird chops lcuk into little pieces and hides him in the wall Sep 30 01:51:58 surprisingly though - liqbase playground has a global search that i want to allow console commands in Sep 30 01:51:59 did you go to Yale Firebird? Sep 30 01:52:07 it worked!! Sep 30 01:52:09 hey Sep 30 01:52:12 someone else named TAd Sep 30 01:52:25 ;) Sep 30 01:52:28 okay Sep 30 01:52:33 can I copy my prefs file to that folder Sep 30 01:52:35 dont worry - its just COUNCIL member penguinbait Sep 30 01:52:37 even if their is one their already Sep 30 01:52:42 or do I need to copy that file over to my computer Sep 30 01:52:45 edit it then copy it back Sep 30 01:52:51 (I care less about the rest of my prefs) Sep 30 01:52:56 haha Sep 30 01:52:59 we were all pulling for ya! Sep 30 01:53:15 well thank you Sep 30 01:53:15 if the file did not exist, then you just copy the tiny one Sep 30 01:53:21 well Sep 30 01:53:27 it turns out it does exist Sep 30 01:53:30 can I just over right it? Sep 30 01:53:31 haha Sep 30 01:53:33 after all that Sep 30 01:53:37 well Sep 30 01:53:41 I still neded to access it Sep 30 01:53:43 regardless Sep 30 01:53:45 right? Sep 30 01:53:48 yeah Sep 30 01:54:01 you can replace it - it does hold the list of widgets Sep 30 01:54:02 if I over right it Sep 30 01:54:04 okay Sep 30 01:54:04 but you can rebuild it Sep 30 01:54:07 well thats not a problem Sep 30 01:54:11 alright then Sep 30 01:54:14 here goes alot :) Sep 30 01:54:16 they can be chosen now :) Sep 30 01:55:02 I just need to find out where I downloaded Sep 30 01:55:03 the file Sep 30 01:55:36 found it Sep 30 01:55:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJdVqkkW4Wc Sep 30 01:55:42 hahaha Sep 30 01:55:44 holy shit Sep 30 01:55:57 they sure in hell made sure that guy wasn't going to be able to jump out the car :) Sep 30 01:57:09 you cannot move files across file systems? Sep 30 01:57:25 mmm from where, to where Sep 30 01:58:00 is it pref Sep 30 01:58:02 or prefs? Sep 30 01:58:07 I got it Sep 30 01:58:09 liqbase.prefs Sep 30 01:58:09 in Sep 30 01:58:52 okay Sep 30 01:58:54 just to let you know Sep 30 01:59:00 gpe stinks Sep 30 01:59:01 Macer, ouch!! Sep 30 01:59:04 anyway Sep 30 01:59:12 I got it worked Sep 30 01:59:13 out Sep 30 01:59:15 gotta call my fiance Sep 30 01:59:19 or she will get mad Sep 30 01:59:22 lol Sep 30 01:59:25 thanks alot guys Sep 30 01:59:30 talk to you all some other time Sep 30 01:59:30 forget her Sep 30 01:59:34 ID rather not Sep 30 01:59:36 shes hot Sep 30 01:59:38 haha Sep 30 01:59:40 19 days... Sep 30 01:59:41 Tadthebuilder, sorry its been the longest time liqbase hasnt done as intended ;) Sep 30 01:59:43 have fun Sep 30 01:59:52 Thankyou Sep 30 01:59:54 im sure I will have fun Sep 30 01:59:58 good bye all Sep 30 02:00:01 np - its a learning curve for all Sep 30 02:00:06 :) Sep 30 02:00:07 bye Sep 30 02:00:26 man did you see his old lady Sep 30 02:00:30 she was hot!!!!!!! Sep 30 02:00:31 * lcuk just got a wget line setup and everything ;) Sep 30 02:00:47 linux is so rabbitholeish Sep 30 02:00:56 how do you cope doing anything substantial Sep 30 02:01:07 thats a fun rabbit hole Sep 30 02:01:15 what is ^^^ that Sep 30 02:01:19 or the normal stuff Sep 30 02:01:23 you most usually can find your way out of Sep 30 02:01:46 yeah, but its every corner Sep 30 02:02:17 * lcuk will just make sure it does fullscreen next release ;) Sep 30 02:02:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCz9d2Agi0g&NR=1 Sep 30 02:02:42 HAHAHHAA Sep 30 02:03:05 penguinbait: yeah you saw that? :) Sep 30 02:03:11 I just want to go to sleep and wake up when there is some hardware to play with Sep 30 02:03:15 they smashed into his car full speed while he wass trying to get out the door Sep 30 02:03:19 that was pretty funny Sep 30 02:03:41 probably not wise to shoot at the police Sep 30 02:03:43 expecting a delivery penguinbait Sep 30 02:03:52 lcuk :( Sep 30 02:03:54 no Sep 30 02:04:10 winter hibernation ! Sep 30 02:04:12 I am hoping tmobile usa will have some sort of deal Sep 30 02:04:24 once its available Sep 30 02:04:39 yeah Sep 30 02:04:46 or some dev program I can join Sep 30 02:04:46 PAYG was only real option for me here Sep 30 02:05:04 PAYG? Sep 30 02:05:12 pay as you go Sep 30 02:05:16 buy credit as needed Sep 30 02:05:19 rather than a contract Sep 30 02:05:29 but you got a n900 from ? Sep 30 02:06:00 apple Sep 30 02:06:03 heh Sep 30 02:06:15 ask a silly question lol Sep 30 02:06:16 Woo, finally have a client with a proper separator. Sep 30 02:06:22 exactly, I'm just waiting for some availability Sep 30 02:06:48 yeah Sep 30 02:07:05 I'm still wondering who will ship first pandora or n900 Sep 30 02:07:31 whoever ships first, n900 kicks more ass Sep 30 02:07:42 its just so rounded and complete :) Sep 30 02:08:15 ticks more boxes and is a complete platform Sep 30 02:08:23 i see uses for this in so many markets Sep 30 02:08:46 pandora is good for gaming Sep 30 02:09:06 we'll see Sep 30 02:09:15 * lcuk nods Sep 30 02:10:03 I was not really looking for a phone, so I think a pandora and a n900 would replace my 810 and my phone nicely Sep 30 02:10:33 all kinds of possibilities Sep 30 02:10:48 you could take over the world Sep 30 02:11:00 or probably the stock market Sep 30 02:11:03 heh Sep 30 02:11:03 ive got no hope Sep 30 02:11:19 i walk out of a job tomorrow into a massive black hole Sep 30 02:11:29 whats the scoop? Sep 30 02:11:36 no scoop really Sep 30 02:11:45 whats the deal? Sep 30 02:11:48 ive managed code in my work for last 9 yrs Sep 30 02:12:02 i needed extra time before onedotzero to finish it Sep 30 02:12:13 and boss had a massive project at same time Sep 30 02:12:34 the only way for me to do onedotzero was to resign Sep 30 02:12:48 OMG Sep 30 02:12:49 if i hadnt done the onedotzero stuff the controller wouldnt have worked Sep 30 02:13:00 everyone wouldv been :( Sep 30 02:13:28 what about all the maemo positions, nothing fits? Sep 30 02:13:48 blck hole right now, ive made applications Sep 30 02:13:58 dont know until the openings close Sep 30 02:14:03 if that makes sense Sep 30 02:14:09 I got ya Sep 30 02:14:35 so what with old boss, it done or you find out tomorrow? Sep 30 02:15:12 penguinbait: Considering Pandora hasn't even started FCC... definitely N900. Sep 30 02:15:47 hey zj Sep 30 02:15:58 still civil, i understand his position and mine but tomorrow is my last day Sep 30 02:16:37 lcuk, did he see onedotzero? ;) Sep 30 02:16:38 i then have 2 weeks before i have to take anything local Sep 30 02:16:43 which will involve me stopping maemo Sep 30 02:17:01 he doesnt care about it Sep 30 02:17:27 thinks open source is a nonsense Sep 30 02:17:38 Ah, not much reason to work for him then. ;) Sep 30 02:17:53 Give it 10 years and he'll get his. Sep 30 02:18:19 ive offered to make him a version of our software on maemo Sep 30 02:18:37 completely mobile stuff - i could make a really nice package out of it Sep 30 02:19:01 but, thats for another time Sep 30 02:19:22 so, gnite chaps - thanks for earbending and help n stuff Sep 30 02:24:07 get some sleep lcuk Sep 30 02:24:28 night! Sep 30 02:40:35 <----- has swine flu, or bird flu, something, I hate it when the kids go back to school Sep 30 02:40:51 penguin flu! Sep 30 02:42:17 my beaks all clogged up Sep 30 02:46:06 I love liqbase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Sep 30 02:49:07 just thought id let every one know i love liqbase...I also love the monday through sunday calendar, rather than sunday through friday. It makes more sense to me Sep 30 02:50:29 yeah, any calendar without Sat just sucks Sep 30 02:50:45 true Sep 30 02:50:51 that is so not what I meant though Sep 30 02:50:53 ... Sep 30 02:50:56 Maybe if all calendars didn't have Saturday then employers could never schedule you on it. Sep 30 02:51:08 hmm good thinking Sep 30 02:51:16 heh Sep 30 02:51:17 I meant sunday through satursdaty Sep 30 02:51:21 saturday Sep 30 02:51:25 you might understand my excitement Sep 30 02:51:32 if you knew how long it took me to get it to work :) Sep 30 02:51:43 lcuk was helping me out for atleast an hour. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 30 02:59:57 2009