**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 11 02:59:56 2009 Oct 11 04:23:02 Xisdibik, hmm? Oct 11 04:25:06 Xisdibik, try Linux? Oct 11 04:27:57 GeneralAntilles: heh, am, puttin karmic on a USB atm to put on the netbook Oct 11 04:28:21 only thing i dont like about linux, is skype's linux version Oct 11 04:32:17 Skype sucks Oct 11 04:36:55 luke-jr: lol Oct 11 04:37:19 luke-jr: find me something that my friends use so i can chat with them :P cuz.. thats the only thing they use Oct 11 04:43:38 Xisdibik, get them all to switch to Gizmo. ;) Oct 11 04:48:23 Gizmo? link! Oct 11 04:48:43 (not that i would be able to get them all to switch, but its still worth a look Oct 11 04:51:52 GeneralAntilles: i found the site, is it correct that it supports skype users as well? Oct 11 04:54:14 Xisdibik, they just added something for free calling to Skype. Oct 11 04:54:20 Not sure what the support entails, exactly. Oct 11 04:54:26 Xisdibik, my friends and family use neither. :D Oct 11 04:55:48 haha :P Oct 11 04:55:57 they should???? GeneralAntilles :P Oct 11 05:12:22 GeneralAntilles: It's not free. Oct 11 05:22:03 Ah Oct 11 05:24:25 USB charging seems to have only brought pain. Oct 11 05:24:35 Zero convenience Oct 11 05:26:36 :( Oct 11 05:26:50 * timeless wakes up to a silent alar Oct 11 05:26:52 m Oct 11 05:27:35 gan: zero conv? Oct 11 05:37:36 timeless, no host, wont work with dumb chargers, wont take a charge from a sleeping computer and I don't have any other MicroUSB devices anyway. Oct 11 05:38:20 wont charge from a dumb usb charger?:( Oct 11 05:38:35 jaska, not so far as I can tell. Oct 11 05:38:38 ouch Oct 11 05:38:53 At least if the USB cable has data pins. Oct 11 05:39:34 It wants to negotiate (which is to spec) but dumb chargers don't negotiate. . . . Oct 11 05:51:29 GAN800: your sleeping computer's motherboard might not support powering USB while its asleep Oct 11 06:03:42 Xisdibik, it does, as it powers other stuff without issue. ;) Oct 11 06:07:19 I was under the impression that it charges if the data pins are shorted? Oct 11 06:07:59 I've always had this concern about usb charging too, but since nokia is including adapter to use old chargers I relaxed :) Oct 11 06:09:18 GAN800: strange :( Oct 11 06:10:49 GAN800, now that people finally have the USB charging they've been whining for, I have this urge to stand up and shout "HA" everytime people discover negatives about it :-) Oct 11 06:11:43 Yeah, I knew it wouldn't work out all milk and honey. Oct 11 06:11:55 A USB bus doesn't even have enough juice to charge at a reasonable rate. :\ Oct 11 06:12:28 well about 3-4 hours Oct 11 06:12:49 It's interesting to note that Nokia's own microusb charger has higher spec than the previous gen 2mm chargers Oct 11 06:13:13 5.7v vs 5v? Oct 11 06:13:18 I wonder if it's like with the 2mm generation that the spec is actually some minimum amount, and in practice you get 1.5 - 2x Oct 11 06:13:27 no not volts Oct 11 06:13:44 mA Oct 11 06:14:38 All my 2mm chargers output 6.something anyway Oct 11 06:14:58 AC-10U is 1200mA 5v Oct 11 06:15:34 hm Oct 11 06:15:43 The AC-4U was underpowered for the tablets at 890mA Oct 11 06:15:54 Considering you could draw more power than the charger could provide. Oct 11 06:15:57 is there something that i can send to act as pgup in irssi other than pgup? Oct 11 06:16:08 * ShadowJK has never managed to pull 890mA :-) Oct 11 06:16:20 I don't think I've ever seen more than 600 Oct 11 06:16:40 GeneralAntilles: sounds like my g1 Oct 11 06:16:42 no wait Oct 11 06:16:46 hm, I guess USB host mode adds 150-200ish... Oct 11 06:16:48 i mean my n810 Oct 11 06:17:08 my n810 would lose power sometimes if it was under a constant high load Oct 11 06:17:15 while chaRGING Oct 11 06:19:01 what's high load? Oct 11 06:19:06 What did you do :-) Oct 11 06:24:53 hey, bad planning here Oct 11 06:25:06 anyone have a spare floor for tonight? Oct 11 06:25:46 a spare floor? Oct 11 06:26:10 yes Oct 11 06:26:18 just a place i could sleep Oct 11 06:26:23 no bed required Oct 11 06:26:27 located where? :) Oct 11 06:26:50 amsterdam i guess? or prague? Oct 11 06:27:06 ams Oct 11 06:27:13 timeless, johnx and rm_you are going to be in a hostel downtown if nothing else materializes. Oct 11 06:27:22 been here since friday noonish Oct 11 06:27:24 heh, sorry mate, i have plenty of floors here, but im in Berkeley, California, USA Oct 11 06:27:40 gan: ok Oct 11 06:28:00 They may still have my reservation, not sure. Oct 11 06:28:30 brb Oct 11 06:28:34 machine wants to reboot for updates Oct 11 06:30:10 morning Oct 11 06:30:34 also, anyone w/ nokia vpn access around? :) Oct 11 06:31:04 i wish sometimes Oct 11 06:32:26 back Oct 11 07:05:00 you don't really want one Oct 11 07:05:45 hrm Oct 11 07:06:27 cold someone try using a simless n900 w/ working active wiifi and apgs enabled to get a maps fix? Oct 11 07:06:37 i want to know how long it takes Oct 11 07:06:59 i believe the basic agps requires dataroaming Oct 11 07:07:10 but i'm not certain Oct 11 07:07:16 get me a n900 and ill get right on it ;) Oct 11 07:07:36 * timeless is trying to integrate a tidbit from a camera guy into a string Oct 11 07:08:00 come to weesp and i'll let you use one of mine :) Oct 11 07:08:36 btw, any objections to labeling the pal/ntsc chooser as "format"? Oct 11 07:10:00 What's wrong with the control panel applet to switch between NTSC/PAL? :) Oct 11 07:10:46 is it possible to get n900 wifi to work as AP? Oct 11 07:12:36 the label sucks Oct 11 07:12:55 sulx: not from the gui in the box Oct 11 07:12:57 but sure Oct 11 07:13:14 this isn't windows, it doesn't have a pretty ICS Oct 11 07:13:22 timeless: Fair point :/ Oct 11 07:13:27 it's linux and XTerminal is available Oct 11 07:13:33 timeless: yea I know ;) Oct 11 07:13:40 qwerty: objections to my string? Oct 11 07:14:09 Nope. It's a lot better than "TV out" Oct 11 07:14:30 qwerty: so.. i need someone to take a copy of zenity srcs probably from mer and send it to extras-testing Oct 11 07:14:34 can you do that? Oct 11 07:14:52 I'm the maintainer of the Diablo version Oct 11 07:15:09 so wait, all you people in amsterdam, i thought the summit was over, is it not? Oct 11 07:15:14 timeless: Wouldn't be a problem for me to upload it to Fremantle Oct 11 07:15:28 great, please do, now :) Oct 11 07:15:32 Xisdibik: another day today, last one Oct 11 07:15:43 ah ok Oct 11 07:15:48 question is whether the drivers and hardware supports AP mode, we know the pretty gui doesn't :) Oct 11 07:15:59 i need someone to write a small launcher that uses it Oct 11 07:16:13 Stskeeps: is the NDA still in effect for people, or is it off, and, if its still on does it end after the summit Oct 11 07:16:44 nda's a re typically covered by their own text [1;2A) Oct 11 07:17:09 but most people should be able to talk abut the devices they got here Oct 11 07:17:26 Xisdibik: no idea what your nda covers Oct 11 07:17:35 people are encouraged to file bugs in bugs.maemo.org Oct 11 07:17:46 at least the normal people Oct 11 07:17:57 frankly. i think its not allowed to discuss you have one either.. crazy legalese Oct 11 07:18:18 Stskeeps: im not on a NDA, i ment for others ;) Oct 11 07:18:19 there was no mention of grouping those bugs into a hidden slot Oct 11 07:18:33 in general, ita's like fight clun Oct 11 07:18:37 see rule 1 Oct 11 07:18:52 shouldn't people know what they sign... Oct 11 07:19:08 they aren't allowed to talk about it Oct 11 07:19:15 that's covered by the doc Oct 11 07:19:44 and typically you have n agreement not to talk about the nda to view the nda itself Oct 11 07:19:50 before signing Oct 11 07:20:30 simple example, contractors can't typically indicate they contract Oct 11 07:20:42 standard industry form Oct 11 07:22:30 there's hardly anything interesting left to know, that early n900 users would know, anyway :) Oct 11 07:25:49 sadly, the terms generally don't care Oct 11 07:26:42 I meant it in the sense that it's kinda silly to be asking whether people can talk or not, when they've already talked plenty ;) Oct 11 07:26:58 When the hell did we decide on 'Maemo Extras'. . . . Oct 11 07:28:01 years ago ;) Oct 11 07:28:04 yay for the crusade against random repos Oct 11 07:28:28 it should be just maemo Oct 11 07:28:30 * GAN800 would Thank qgil's post but 'Maemo Extras' irritates me. Oct 11 07:28:42 Ah, fun, browser crash, too. Oct 11 07:28:54 'Extras' Oct 11 07:29:37 so, it you record the machine id portioin (it's consistent and 4 hesx digit), sp3000 or babu could look Oct 11 07:30:44 Something I did made this thing hate me. Oct 11 07:30:45 i'm outside ams for the morning Oct 11 07:30:58 you picked it up? Oct 11 07:31:25 's/he' . . . Oct 11 07:31:42 No, he gave it a lecture on the correct usage of "Maemo/maemo.org" Oct 11 07:33:06 Well, this one seems vaguely reproducible. . . . Oct 11 07:33:23 so the repo shouild be "maemo.prg" ? Oct 11 07:34:44 I think we should call it "qwerty12's House o' Fun" Oct 11 07:35:40 Hrm, that's cool. Oct 11 07:35:45 Wonder if that was wd or battery. Oct 11 07:36:17 WD reboots with a song playing are the best... Oct 11 07:36:26 lol Oct 11 07:37:56 * timeless kicks maps Oct 11 07:37:59 . . . Oct 11 07:38:05 i'm in weesp Oct 11 07:38:12 * GeneralAntilles stares at a crash report for the wd. Oct 11 07:38:18 i search for nieuwstraat Oct 11 07:38:26 how long does the train take to get to the airport from central amsterdam? Oct 11 07:38:30 it offers me a town miles aay Oct 11 07:38:38 and some other things Oct 11 07:38:51 from memory less than 15mins Oct 11 07:38:57 k Oct 11 07:39:03 it doesn't ment Oct 11 07:39:09 memory is years ago Oct 11 07:39:19 not thus trip Oct 11 07:39:29 nieuwstraat sounds like something that every town has, if ovi maps had any sense it'd offer the one in the town you are in :( Oct 11 07:39:33 looks about right Oct 11 07:39:38 just wanted to make sure it wasn't like an hour Oct 11 07:41:08 * ShadowJK has issues with all map software living in a bilingual area Oct 11 07:41:27 this is ovi maps Oct 11 07:41:40 i had to tell it x, town Oct 11 07:41:59 then it merrily told me less than 200 yards Oct 11 07:42:20 * ShadowJK points to "if" :) Oct 11 07:42:26 please don't ask why it's measuring in yards instead of feet Oct 11 07:43:12 bye Oct 11 07:43:31 * ShadowJK wishes *maps would know about names in all languages instead of requiring me the user to memorize/find names in 3 languages Oct 11 07:43:53 and often not even the locals know the other names :) Oct 11 07:45:32 timeless: it probably gave you yards because its smaller than saying it in feet Oct 11 07:45:42 and if your walkin, at least for me. my strides about a yard Oct 11 07:56:25 * rmt finally had the realisation that he doesn't need to compile everything under sb2 -e.. Oct 11 08:01:02 anybody attend the bluetooth profiles talk yesterday and know the verdict on DUN? Oct 11 08:16:17 oo Oct 11 08:16:20 moo Oct 11 08:16:29 Baa Oct 11 08:26:17 can desktop apps support openid auth conveniently? Oct 11 08:26:44 I don't have a password for my identi.ca account, I use openid Oct 11 08:27:01 can I use Mauku this way? Oct 11 08:27:46 or am I limited to denting via web/jabber unless I give in and set a password Oct 11 08:32:19 lcuk's tv-out troubles are worrying Oct 11 08:32:30 flaky cable? Oct 11 08:33:06 Morning all Oct 11 08:33:29 mgedmin900: It's worked well every other time I've seen it Oct 11 08:38:53 oh dear, someone's reading the slides word by word very rapidly Oct 11 09:06:27 hi folks - I was reading qgill's post today - http://tr.im/BoQE ... the one about 3rd party untested apps. I was wondering - assuming I manage to brick/break the maemo install on a n900. how can I repair that - or am I forced to visit my local nokia vendor/service? Oct 11 09:07:14 don't brick it Oct 11 09:07:34 was the answer I got yesterday to this very question Oct 11 09:07:47 hmm - that's calming... Oct 11 09:08:16 that means I can't rebuild+replace the root image? Oct 11 09:08:20 I imagine flashing the firmware will be possible when the n900 is finally launched Oct 11 09:09:49 hmm someone in here bricked his n900 yesterday iirc, wonder what he endedu p doing to fix it Oct 11 09:12:15 I bricked my kubuntu install on my EEE laptop the other day.. I just recompiled a full root install gentoo linux on my core2 (as it's approx 4x faster to re-install that way) and copied the root filesystem back onto the EEE - voila ;-) Oct 11 09:12:34 browser: nokia is happy with the gecko engine Oct 11 09:13:35 * frals hopes someone is gonna record http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule/Day_3#Telepathy_on_Maemo Oct 11 09:16:08 browser: backspace key goes back (duh) Oct 11 09:16:52 why are there two ways to get the history list: swipe from right and a toolbar button? Oct 11 09:18:09 because the swipe is not very discoverable? Oct 11 09:19:03 what about reloading a page? Oct 11 09:19:23 ctrl-r is the only way I found Oct 11 09:19:40 well, and pressing enter in the address bar Oct 11 09:19:45 Reload appears in the menu when you can use it Oct 11 09:20:27 looked for it, haven't seen it Oct 11 09:20:57 hm, it's there now when I dont't need it Oct 11 09:22:48 dont't remember it when facebook loaded as a blank page (poor wifi) Oct 11 09:26:20 is there a way to test out the n900? Is there somthing like a virtual-box/vmware-image (including the sdk) or do I have to start butchering around my gentoo install? Oct 11 09:27:07 cool: the browser ui uses no opengl Oct 11 09:27:26 runs on a n8x0 Oct 11 09:27:35 nocaic: The sdk is not a complete user experience - if that's what you mean Oct 11 09:27:36 with same performance as n900 Oct 11 09:32:45 pwsafe idea: hide passwords by default, reveal on click Oct 11 09:33:11 you don't need to see them if you use the copy pwd button Oct 11 09:33:14 there are some problems if everybody uses opengl mainly you will empty the buffers every time Oct 11 09:34:45 hmm... I can't find where photos I take with my n900 end up on disk... not in MyDocs/.images apparently Oct 11 09:34:56 * mgedmin900 wants adblock Oct 11 09:35:25 mek find ~ -cmin -10 -size +100k ? Oct 11 09:36:12 MyDocs/DCIM Oct 11 09:36:25 ah, yeah... makes sense... Oct 11 09:36:29 the standard for digital cameras Oct 11 09:37:00 MyDocs is a separate partition, exported via usb in mass storage mode Oct 11 09:37:24 * mgedmin900 wants adblock Oct 11 09:37:57 * SpeedEvil needs to get his much better thing working. Oct 11 09:38:26 Currently benchmarking approaches. Oct 11 09:50:36 * Jaffa stays put for the security talk, gcobb and I want to ask same questions. Oct 11 09:51:30 Jaffa: could you give some info about that talk here Oct 11 09:51:58 the the “covertitlive“ feed is a bit noisy and not easy to follow Oct 11 09:52:01 * ccooke is amused by the qt dev talk we just had Oct 11 09:52:01 web browser crashed agan Oct 11 09:52:03 Corsac: will do Oct 11 09:52:24 ccooke: bit targetted aat Qt devs and had nothing on Maemo 5 Oct 11 09:52:26 the schedule said it was qt for maemo 5 and 6 Oct 11 09:52:38 * Jaffa nods Oct 11 09:52:47 where's the restore session option? Oct 11 09:53:00 mgedmin900: ha Oct 11 09:53:01 I got an apology from the presenter about it... Oct 11 09:53:07 ccooke: heh Oct 11 09:53:14 ah, well. security now Oct 11 09:53:33 * Jaffa had hoped to see something about the official Qt for Maemo 5 Oct 11 09:53:47 there isn't anything Oct 11 09:53:54 when I launch 'web' I get bookmarks and there's no way to see my history Oct 11 09:54:01 http://www2.it.lut.fi/project/ptd/peerhood.html the planned peer-to-peer networkig framework for JamMo Oct 11 09:54:07 that was the last potential one I think Oct 11 09:54:22 ccooke: security in which room? Oct 11 09:54:39 and isn't it supposed to be in 7 mins? Oct 11 09:54:40 810 Oct 11 09:54:43 mgedmin900: N810. 'Open/closed device modes" Oct 11 09:54:50 n800 Oct 11 09:54:54 mgedmin900: Qt talk was done in 10 mins Oct 11 09:55:25 starting early? eek Oct 11 09:55:25 * mgedmin900 runs Oct 11 09:55:25 mgedmin900: not started yet, but it'l be prompt as Elena is on stage Oct 11 09:55:25 no, wait. they changed it to n810 Oct 11 09:55:53 mgedmin900: sorry for worrying you there Oct 11 09:56:18 woo Oct 11 09:56:34 Starting Oct 11 09:56:36 finally got xchat on this thing Oct 11 09:56:40 starting now Oct 11 09:57:15 "plat sec" protects entire SW platform Oct 11 09:58:20 "Integrated Protection inclides data" Oct 11 09:58:49 these are nokia internal classufucatiions or some standard? Oct 11 09:58:52 h/w enablers + integrity protection + access ctrl Oct 11 09:58:53 "privacy protection" - strong encryption, user or device data Oct 11 09:59:24 "security policy" defines everything Oct 11 10:00:27 set of apps in both modes same Oct 11 10:00:39 same apps in different modes, so you won't need to reflash at least Oct 11 10:00:56 apply and slightly extends classic AC Oct 11 10:01:08 multi-user for app-level access ctrl Oct 11 10:02:08 wat? my 'complete browsing history' is 'none'??? Oct 11 10:03:38 process_level access ctrl needed Oct 11 10:03:47 this is an interesting presentation Oct 11 10:04:12 TrEE: root public key & root device specific key Oct 11 10:04:16 trusted execution Oct 11 10:04:24 environment Oct 11 10:04:25 is a thikrs mode Oct 11 10:04:37 show me some cool apps Oct 11 10:04:39 or New Games Oct 11 10:04:44 on the n900 the people who have one Oct 11 10:05:16 so even loadable kernel modules cant access drm code? or are modules forbidden? Oct 11 10:05:17 so far so good Oct 11 10:05:31 boot rom checks integrity of loader Oct 11 10:05:49 loader checks for nokia's signature of os image Oct 11 10:05:52 so, we'll have nokia signed images Oct 11 10:06:07 no other bootloader allowed Oct 11 10:06:19 SIM locking Oct 11 10:06:22 arg Oct 11 10:06:42 makes sense - if I pay less, I have a contract Oct 11 10:06:54 sim locked phones canmt load non-nokia kernels Oct 11 10:07:02 whuich seems fair Oct 11 10:07:06 yup Oct 11 10:07:14 ha, only sim-locked ones Oct 11 10:07:17 yeah, fair enough Oct 11 10:07:19 drm disabled on custom kernels Oct 11 10:07:27 also fair Oct 11 10:07:28 well, not fair, but a carrier requirement Oct 11 10:07:38 most importantly, if you buy unlocked devices you can boot arbitrary unsigned images Oct 11 10:07:45 ok Oct 11 10:07:49 +1 Oct 11 10:08:02 mgedmin900_: and if you unlock the phone Oct 11 10:08:02 this is a deep split. i dont know Oct 11 10:08:07 which is allowed Oct 11 10:08:17 hm Oct 11 10:08:18 it's mandatory in France anyway Oct 11 10:08:23 (after 6 months) Oct 11 10:08:35 pupnik: this is for whole thing. process stuff seems like it might be ok Oct 11 10:08:40 is it possible to port iphone games to linux or maemo? Oct 11 10:08:42 no open source driver modules can run concurrently with drm software? Oct 11 10:09:08 (what drm are we talking about?) Oct 11 10:09:12 pupnik: that wasnmt said Oct 11 10:09:15 Ceron^: developer can Oct 11 10:09:25 the kernel will have many modules Oct 11 10:09:30 i am not twitterring Oct 11 10:09:33 hm Oct 11 10:09:37 Corsac: Paid apps and content Oct 11 10:09:42 ok Oct 11 10:09:51 all paid content will be drm-ed? Oct 11 10:09:54 but *custom* ones won't be able to run drm apps Oct 11 10:10:02 good question Oct 11 10:10:15 (i thought drm was deprecated) Oct 11 10:10:17 :) Oct 11 10:10:21 right Oct 11 10:10:24 can I get root on a nokia-signed os image? Oct 11 10:10:32 I think so Oct 11 10:10:43 drm protected access control to resources, ,which can be provoded by apps or the system Oct 11 10:10:47 Maybe not if multiuser stuff makes ACL possible Oct 11 10:10:49 without disabling drm? Oct 11 10:11:10 hard to protect anything from root Oct 11 10:11:17 Can introduce new protected resources (e.g. pwsafe) Oct 11 10:11:32 nice Oct 11 10:12:04 mgedmin900_: can be done, though. a little hardware support will work it Oct 11 10:12:06 if there's some questions, could you ask about protected (encrypted and signed) communications (phone, mail, sms) and storage? Oct 11 10:12:28 protected resources are things like cellular and gps access Oct 11 10:12:42 (for example) Oct 11 10:12:44 apps declare what they want in a manifest file Oct 11 10:12:55 wont't necessarily get them Oct 11 10:13:36 repos map to allowed resources Oct 11 10:13:52 security policy grants access based on source Oct 11 10:14:07 source could be a repository or a package signature Oct 11 10:14:36 policy accessible only to the installer Oct 11 10:14:57 this seems like a good design Oct 11 10:15:45 I still don't get if it's about protecting the user from malicious apps Oct 11 10:16:03 It's hopefully about both Oct 11 10:16:03 or about protecting apps from the user Oct 11 10:16:08 both Oct 11 10:16:10 I guess Oct 11 10:16:11 mgedmin900_: its about both Oct 11 10:16:16 it has to be Oct 11 10:16:29 maemo.org/downloads could readAegis manifest and show requested resources and autobuilder can check they're available to maemo.org apps Oct 11 10:16:52 protected storage: encryption, integrity Oct 11 10:17:01 details? Oct 11 10:17:12 piracy prevention Oct 11 10:17:13 (on algo, methods etc.) Oct 11 10:17:22 app calls aegis apis Oct 11 10:17:54 Corsac: TrEE on the ARM does sign/verify, encpt/decrypt Oct 11 10:18:13 APIs in user-space library for Aegis Protected Storage Oct 11 10:18:22 nice, how am I supposed to google for “arm tree” Oct 11 10:18:24 :)) Oct 11 10:18:32 :) Oct 11 10:18:40 no passwords the user has to remember Oct 11 10:18:44 keys stored in hardware Oct 11 10:18:49 in sim? Oct 11 10:18:52 so, who's going to ask if we can get root? Oct 11 10:19:04 Corsac: tpm equivalent Oct 11 10:19:11 root will - if it's done right - not mean much Oct 11 10:19:12 not a sim Oct 11 10:19:15 wow Oct 11 10:19:27 SpeedEvil: it should work that way Oct 11 10:19:27 If the user has no passwords - how is it secured? Oct 11 10:19:28 aegis validator Oct 11 10:19:40 but we'll need to ask :-) Oct 11 10:19:48 kernel module checks executable integrity Oct 11 10:19:52 SpeedEvil: per-device key & normal device lock code? Oct 11 10:20:03 sha-1 currently Oct 11 10:20:03 hmm. Oct 11 10:20:11 wheee Oct 11 10:20:20 sha1? Oct 11 10:20:21 stores hashes of binaries in APS Oct 11 10:20:21 no kidding? Oct 11 10:20:25 sha-1? what? Oct 11 10:20:29 * Corsac laughs Oct 11 10:20:30 you can generate sha-1 collisions with current hardware Oct 11 10:20:35 for app hash keys Oct 11 10:20:36 i hope that changes! Oct 11 10:20:45 get one app signed, substitute the other one Oct 11 10:21:17 exactly Oct 11 10:21:17 that's a shocker Oct 11 10:21:17 I hope it's a composite hash Oct 11 10:21:22 sha1+md5 for example is not weak if you xor them Oct 11 10:21:31 ccooke: "currently" emphasised Oct 11 10:21:38 yeah Oct 11 10:21:45 I've seen ppl argue otherwise Oct 11 10:21:59 but I still plan to ask Oct 11 10:22:10 because it's important Oct 11 10:22:13 most of security fw will be opensource Oct 11 10:22:17 most? Oct 11 10:22:25 let the whining begin! Oct 11 10:22:27 not all? Oct 11 10:22:34 Keys? Oct 11 10:22:40 no security by obscurity Oct 11 10:22:42 good! Oct 11 10:22:49 ++ Oct 11 10:23:04 (will the slides be available online at one point?) Oct 11 10:23:04 elena.reshetova@nokia Oct 11 10:23:11 Corsac: and video Oct 11 10:23:13 mgedmin900_: drivers for the hardware will be closed, but the stuff to apply policy wll be opne, I expect Oct 11 10:23:54 oh god Oct 11 10:24:02 Jaffa: the mail is for me to write to ask for the slides and video? :) Oct 11 10:24:22 Corsac: nah, for my own ref later ;-) Oct 11 10:24:24 ok :) Oct 11 10:24:33 This isn't constructive Oct 11 10:24:38 hmhm, closed source drivers aren't really a good idea :/ Oct 11 10:24:48 tpm access is open, for example Oct 11 10:24:57 hehe this didnt take long :) Oct 11 10:25:18 Corsac: 'twas a guess Oct 11 10:25:33 (I wonder if they thought about using tpm and why it has been rejected) Oct 11 10:26:00 lots of talk about gpl v3 Oct 11 10:26:01 TPM needs to go from before the bootloader really to mean much Oct 11 10:26:03 though Nokia is a TCG member Oct 11 10:26:14 SpeedEvil: well, that was the point Oct 11 10:26:26 For example - the SOC in silicon needs to verify the bootloader, and then go from there. Oct 11 10:26:38 in ROM internal to the chip I mean Oct 11 10:26:42 yup Oct 11 10:26:53 And even then you can swap out the SOC Oct 11 10:27:02 But at that point... Oct 11 10:28:29 I'd like - if the phone is stolen - for it to be a useless brick. Oct 11 10:28:29 heya all Oct 11 10:28:40 Even for the skilled hardware hacker with 100 to unlock. Oct 11 10:28:42 hey Oct 11 10:29:05 SpeedEvil: everything that can be locked - can be unlocked Oct 11 10:29:15 wazd: not if it's done right Oct 11 10:29:38 wazd: and done right means that you will need to replace the CPU with one with unsecured firmware Oct 11 10:29:42 SpeedEvil: any examples of 100% secure protection?) Oct 11 10:29:44 on way locks are the way to bricktown-malware Oct 11 10:29:45 SpeedEvil: not quite. it can be made tpp much trouble to break Oct 11 10:29:47 oneway Oct 11 10:29:58 SpeedEvil: that means someone can brick your hw too :) Oct 11 10:30:09 seems ok to me Oct 11 10:30:19 Corsac: not if it's done right, and it requires my auth to flash it Oct 11 10:30:37 (but yes, it means that someone can lockdown an unsecured phone) Oct 11 10:30:42 all in all, all resumes to a trusted base Oct 11 10:31:29 As long as that trusted base can be configured to not allow any functionality at all if the hardware is on a locked list. Oct 11 10:32:13 who has control on that list? Oct 11 10:32:58 SpeedEvil: even usb keys for Cubase SX were hacked Oct 11 10:33:02 That is of course an issue. There are ways round that. Oct 11 10:33:12 It can be done. Oct 11 10:33:25 It adds cost to the device, and complexity to the managment. Oct 11 10:33:32 SpeedEvil: you can fake any firmware, any auth, any user Oct 11 10:33:33 not - if it's done right - much complexity Oct 11 10:34:02 wazd: I'm starting off with the assumption that the CPU has firmware in ROM to verify the signed bootloader. Oct 11 10:34:36 SpeedEvil: PSP has that firmware protection Oct 11 10:34:53 This may not of course be the case with the n900 Oct 11 10:35:01 SpeedEvil: screen, battery and so on Oct 11 10:35:06 yes - and the psp had various holes Oct 11 10:35:12 seeing the psp hacking scene a lot good it did for them.. Oct 11 10:35:36 SpeedEvil: as you can see it's not a showstoper for hackers :) Oct 11 10:35:56 It is a showstopper if properly implemented. Oct 11 10:36:01 more worthwhile system to look at could be the symbian platsec and how fw's(bootloader too) are protected there Oct 11 10:36:04 Properly implementing it is hard. Oct 11 10:36:21 And requires integration into the whole platform Oct 11 10:36:46 And one bug in a critical area, and you've lost. Oct 11 10:37:09 awesome, got rafe to cover the "telepathy on maemo" session :D Oct 11 10:37:51 SpeedEvil: what's properly implemented? anything that can be accessed - it can be hacked Oct 11 10:38:00 SpeedEvil: absolutely anything Oct 11 10:38:01 wazd: if it's read-write Oct 11 10:38:16 wazd: And if you assume that changing out the CPU is not worth it. Oct 11 10:38:27 SpeedEvil: worth is the other question Oct 11 10:39:05 SpeedEvil: you can replace read-only flash with rewriteable Oct 11 10:39:36 wazd: not if it's internal to the CPU Oct 11 10:40:04 wazd: Current SoCs have 30K or so of ROM inside - this is not user-programmable, and may even be mask. Oct 11 10:40:22 This does stuff like loading a bootloader from NAND flash, forex. Oct 11 10:40:32 hehe @ discussions :) Oct 11 10:40:53 attackers have the desperate habitude not to respect the hypothesis made upon them Oct 11 10:41:10 especially concerning technical knowledge and motivation Oct 11 10:41:35 Corsac: Sure - it requires a lot of work that's not typically done to do it right. Oct 11 10:42:52 Start off by verifying the bootloader from code in ROM, and you're off to a good start. But there are lots of hurdles you have to then pass to ensure that it doesn't break trust. Oct 11 10:43:57 Logistical as well as technical hurdles - key managment is annoying. Oct 11 10:45:05 Jaffa: did you have more info on secure storage and secure communications? Oct 11 10:46:14 what is this? Oct 11 10:46:53 have anywone listened to Vlad Vasiliev on the Summit? :) Oct 11 10:47:03 timeless: it seems that there is a “secure storage” stuff but I didn't have stuff more precise Oct 11 10:48:11 wazd, you have gotten a lot of exposure here Oct 11 10:48:35 Stskeeps: pff :) Oct 11 10:48:53 Stskeeps: In fact I haven't done almost anything for this version :D Oct 11 10:49:11 Stskeeps: cause I was relpaced with some Nokia guy Oct 11 10:49:33 secure storage where? Oct 11 10:50:13 * wazd 's glad that he made OSM2Go icons in time Oct 11 10:50:44 did qwerty push zenity? Oct 11 10:51:05 wazd, you were thanked though Oct 11 10:51:09 wazd: hey, i need some art :) Oct 11 10:51:10 timeless: it's in extras-devel Oct 11 10:51:36 qwerty: i need it in testing so i can pull it w/ an app Oct 11 10:52:17 It's not a user app, I'll promote it with a comment saying "I could not give a shit if it makes it to Extras" Oct 11 10:52:36 It should really be pulled in as a dep of something else Oct 11 10:53:06 wazd: you've seen the flag icon for my n800/n810 locale package, right? Oct 11 10:53:14 timeless: yep Oct 11 10:53:29 qwert: so an app pushed to -testing will automatically pull -devel bits? Oct 11 10:53:32 timeless: we were discussing it even :) Oct 11 10:53:54 so, i need a similar one for the n900 Oct 11 10:54:08 Stskeeps: was Vlad understandable? Cause he was nervous bout it :) Oct 11 10:54:25 but i'd like to have it used as an item in control panel in addition to as a package icon Oct 11 10:54:29 Stskeeps: that's the only reason why I'm asking :D Oct 11 10:54:34 think you could help? Oct 11 10:54:34 timeless: I can't promote it, anyway; the promotion link isn't there (maybe because it's a non-user app) Oct 11 10:54:50 qwerty: ok Oct 11 10:55:06 You'll have to get something depending on it, I guess Oct 11 10:55:08 next step is writing this stupid evil package/app Oct 11 10:55:13 wazd: what did he present again? Oct 11 10:55:23 rm_you: OMWeather Oct 11 10:55:32 ahn yeah Oct 11 10:55:37 i understood him iirc Oct 11 10:56:00 rm_you: cool :) Oct 11 10:56:05 i wish i could add more than one omw widget to a screen tho :( Oct 11 10:56:16 rm_you: hmm :) Oct 11 10:56:22 need weather for two cities at once Oct 11 10:56:31 rm_you: that's an idea :) Oct 11 10:56:35 that's a desktop bug Oct 11 10:56:39 or am i just missing something? Oct 11 10:56:58 you should be able to add things multiple times and to multiple desktops Oct 11 10:57:15 (spec probably doesn't allow it, but it's a bug imo) Oct 11 10:58:17 yeah Oct 11 10:58:33 i guess i can just click to cycle providers Oct 11 10:58:52 but still, wish i had all my cities at a glance Oct 11 10:59:20 rm_you: where are you staying tonight? Oct 11 10:59:28 i guess you could add another setting, how many cities to show at once Oct 11 10:59:38 timeless: Yes, hildon-home ignores the "X-Multiple-Instances" field in a applet's desktop file Oct 11 10:59:40 timeless: same hotel, ibis Oct 11 11:00:23 timeless: apparently we can stay there and pay and then expense it to nokia later Oct 11 11:00:41 we were going to stay at a hostel... Oct 11 11:00:57 but just found that out this morning Oct 11 11:02:31 timeless: havent seen you at all Oct 11 11:11:47 wazd: yes it was fine but there was a bit of read-paper-copy-of-talk-aloud Oct 11 11:13:07 i'm returning to ams/hotel now Oct 11 11:13:55 * timeless hopped to 'weesp' Oct 11 11:24:10 is GAN800 / Generalantilles at conference? Oct 11 11:24:12 omcfadde_: Hiya, is there any way we can bribe you to get the Quake 3 deb early? I've got an N900 in my hands that wants some Q3 action :p Oct 11 11:24:36 yes plx ;) Oct 11 11:24:36 pupnik: no Oct 11 11:24:51 meh Oct 11 11:26:31 pupnik: he had passport problems Oct 11 11:26:47 ty bummer Oct 11 11:28:40 drat Oct 11 11:28:52 there's no python bindings for the location api yet Oct 11 11:29:11 that's going to make the little tools I want to make a *leetle* ugly Oct 11 11:29:19 could anyone with a n900 try and receive a MMS and see if somethings added to /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db? :) Oct 11 11:29:50 heh Oct 11 11:29:53 frals: need any extra SW for that? Oct 11 11:29:59 the tablet mode on this touchbook is so totally useless Oct 11 11:30:02 it is HORRIBLE :) Oct 11 11:30:09 not to mention the mouse jumps around like a wiimote Oct 11 11:30:51 ccooke: requires a separate app to read the el.db, e.g. a sqlite browser or something similar Oct 11 11:30:59 frals or anyone who can send MMS: Send one to +447919594712 Oct 11 11:31:06 frals: no, not really Oct 11 11:31:15 I can tell you if it *changes* the file Oct 11 11:31:28 won't be able to say how, but... :-) Oct 11 11:31:40 frals: hmhm, but you can *send* mms? Oct 11 11:31:54 not from n900 no Oct 11 11:32:27 ccooke: okey, would be helpful to see *what* it changes as well, but i guess just seeing if it changes at all is a first step :) Oct 11 11:32:40 frals: it's the question you asked ;-) Oct 11 11:32:53 qwerty12_N810: I'm currently battling the autobuilder, but yeah, it should be up soon :) Oct 11 11:33:16 okey, let me rephrase, could anyone with a n900 try and receive an MMS and see whats added (if anything) to /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db? ;) Oct 11 11:33:19 omcfadde_: You, sir, are awesome. Thank you! :) Oct 11 11:33:29 qwerty12_N810: hehe, no problem :) Oct 11 11:33:43 I need to poke Quim to get the video online, too Oct 11 11:33:55 but I think they want to do some editing on them first. maemo title screen, etc Oct 11 11:34:14 so that might take a bit longer. but I'll ask when I see him next Oct 11 11:34:41 ccooke: sending MMS now :) Oct 11 11:35:11 It comes through as an SMS Oct 11 11:35:22 okey thanks Oct 11 11:36:37 fwiw, i think mms vbehavior is very carrier specific Oct 11 11:36:49 yes, it is. Oct 11 11:37:03 if a carrier knows you don't support mms, it can special case you Oct 11 11:37:14 frals: at some other time... we should see what reacts to the MMS via, say, ltrace Oct 11 11:37:26 if you have some spare time, would you mind checking if the sms control messages are in the .db? if you need a sqlite browser there is one at http://sqlitebrowser.sourceforge.net/ Oct 11 11:37:31 yeah Oct 11 11:37:31 to see if there's any communication from the carrier first Oct 11 11:38:01 lots of possibilities to check, im trying to find test subjects for them ;-) Oct 11 11:38:36 hmm, interesting: http://telardcci.garage.maemo.org/gps.html Oct 11 11:38:39 anyone seen that? Oct 11 11:40:41 well, the build succeeded now... so I have no idea how long it takes to get into extras and visible on the device Oct 11 11:41:13 oooo Oct 11 11:41:16 I guess about the same time garage.maemo.org gets DDOSed by 300 N900's :p Oct 11 11:41:48 omcfadde_: It can take a while so I've stolen the deb from results/ :p Oct 11 11:42:00 lol Oct 11 11:42:01 hehe Oct 11 11:42:05 qwerty linky Oct 11 11:42:07 you will also need to grab the gles1 packages Oct 11 11:42:19 rm_you: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/ioquake3_1558-maemo1/results/ioquake3_1558-maemo1_armel.deb Oct 11 11:42:26 apt-get -f install FTW :) Oct 11 11:42:50 is it optified? Oct 11 11:43:02 i dont have room on rootfs Oct 11 11:43:06 qwerty12_N810: you'll also need libgles1 package Oct 11 11:43:20 rm_you: the data files can be stored on the home filesystem Oct 11 11:43:31 the package itself is less than a few MB Oct 11 11:43:37 ah k Oct 11 11:43:47 omcfadde_: Yep, I'm being told I'm missing "libgles1-sgx-img". Will hunt for it :) Oct 11 11:44:07 yeah. after you have that, it should work (tm) Oct 11 11:45:28 the /opt discussion overran the time by 40 minutes Oct 11 11:45:36 lol Oct 11 11:45:54 omg Oct 11 11:46:04 ioquake on n900? Oct 11 11:48:19 yeah. I did a talk about it at the summit Oct 11 11:48:24 well, 10% talk, 90% demo Oct 11 11:48:24 wtf Oct 11 11:48:34 at the end of season 4 of andromeda everybody dies Oct 11 11:48:35 hahahah Oct 11 11:48:58 it's like watching the end of a mafia movie.. you know.. where the anti-hero always goes to jail or is killed Oct 11 11:50:47 omcfadde_: Stole libgles1-sgx-img from nokia-binaries and it starts. Just need to get the demo files now :) Oct 11 11:51:34 hmhm, does anyone remember the licence term for libflashplugin.so on maemo? Oct 11 11:51:43 can I use it on another device? Oct 11 11:52:36 omcfadde_: Although, the desktop file has /home/user/baseq3/q3.sh set for its Exec field but /home/user/baseq3/q3.sh does not exist in the package :) Oct 11 11:55:16 qwerty12_N810: oh, oops... yeah, let me fix that one Oct 11 11:55:24 actually it won't do much without autoexec.cfg too Oct 11 11:56:39 :) Oct 11 11:58:05 thanks for pointing that out Oct 11 11:59:06 no problem, thank you for q3. Man, it's certainly a step up from Q1 and Q2 on the N810 :) Oct 11 11:59:55 yes, fine job getting it running so soon Oct 11 12:00:09 thanks :) Oct 11 12:00:16 great to have some divertissment upon release Oct 11 12:00:49 so -- url for demo pack? Oct 11 12:02:30 pupnik_: I don't have the url for the demo data, and to be honest, I'm not sure on the legal side for using that Oct 11 12:02:37 I'm grabbing the exe for Windows. If memory serves me well, it's just a zip file with WinZip's self-extractor. Dunno if "unzip" will handle it, however... Oct 11 12:02:39 but you're smart people... Oct 11 12:03:02 hint: I'd go for the linux .run file and extract that Oct 11 12:03:04 dont include it but we are allowed to link such things too Oct 11 12:03:24 yeah do what msttcorefonts does Oct 11 12:03:39 omcfadde_: I'm doing this on the device, though, dunno if it'll run with busybox and such :/ Oct 11 12:03:50 installer wgets the filem and unpacks Oct 11 12:04:38 Think Debian's package for flash does similar Oct 11 12:05:11 hmm... might be possible to do that Oct 11 12:05:18 but for now, you'll have to manually copy the data Oct 11 12:05:50 Oh, rm_you, how's ABL going? Oct 11 12:07:38 whats abl? Oct 11 12:07:55 Advanced Backlight Oct 11 12:08:09 qwerty12_N810: gonna steal your applet code and change the backend i think Oct 11 12:08:11 for now Oct 11 12:08:20 if you dont mind :P Oct 11 12:08:59 theres so much crap in the abl codebase that i need to rip out for fremantle... Oct 11 12:09:01 rm_you: Of course not, but I do what the CPA does and, as such, am only able to make it go 1-5 :p Oct 11 12:09:11 almost need to just start over Oct 11 12:09:21 yeah Oct 11 12:09:33 just gonna change your gconf code to dbus Oct 11 12:10:51 can i use a different / public map pack? Oct 11 12:10:54 rm_you: location ping Oct 11 12:11:28 ABL could use logarythmic slider for brightneess imo Oct 11 12:11:35 rithm Oct 11 12:13:13 timeless: wgf Oct 11 12:13:25 eh? Oct 11 12:13:37 pupnik <_< Oct 11 12:13:48 timeless: westergasfabriek Oct 11 12:23:28 hmm seems to be taking ages to hit extras-devel Oct 11 12:23:36 but it might be because the x86 build is failing Oct 11 12:23:43 I've fixed that now with Architeture: armel Oct 11 12:24:42 gm ;) Oct 11 12:25:15 qwerty12_N810: unzip can do self extracting zips Oct 11 12:26:29 hehe Oct 11 12:27:10 SpeedEvil: Didn't work on one done by WinZip (here, at least, anyway) Oct 11 12:27:46 Odd. Worked for me with older ones Oct 11 12:28:50 rm-you - what i mean is, on 810 the brightness slider has a large effect on the left, and small on the right. Oct 11 12:30:38 * qwerty12_N810 gives up trying to extract on the N900 Oct 11 12:31:28 bluetooth ot to your n8x0? Oct 11 12:31:30 no unzip on extras yet? Oct 11 12:31:59 pupnik: No, WiFi and SSH :) Oct 11 12:32:17 javispedro: Hiya, I believe it's in extras-devel at least Oct 11 12:32:25 bah, tragedy of the commons Oct 11 12:34:25 * qwerty12_N810 's memory does not serve him well Oct 11 12:34:25 what's the secret key to reflow text in the n900 browser? Oct 11 12:35:44 hmm python includes an unzip model Oct 11 12:38:30 python -m zipfile Oct 11 12:50:16 btw, is maemo-optify installed in the autobuilder or do I need to build-depend on it? Oct 11 12:50:42 build-depend Oct 11 12:51:36 what would happend if build-depend on (maemo-version < 5 || maemo-optify) ;) Oct 11 12:52:07 No need: Jaffa asked mvo to upload it to Diablo's extras-devel ;) Oct 11 12:52:49 my Diablo rootfs is nearly empty already :P Oct 11 12:53:00 (I removed Tear MWAHAHAHAHA) Oct 11 12:53:19 canola torrents plugin can control transmission running on a different pc Oct 11 12:53:24 cool Oct 11 12:54:09 wow Oct 11 12:54:19 they seriously lost me in andromeda with season5 Oct 11 12:54:32 so like.. are they supposed to be in an alternate universe? Oct 11 12:54:43 Quake 3 is now in extras-devel. see http://repository.maemo.org/ for the .install file for extra-devel Oct 11 12:55:01 is canola optified? Oct 11 12:55:20 I have only 8 megs free on my root fs Oct 11 12:55:22 where the hell are these people getting n900s from? :) Oct 11 12:55:24 omcfadde_: Where is the pak0.pk3 file meant to go? Oct 11 12:56:11 I must have tried like 50,000 combinations of baseq3 symlinks :) Oct 11 12:56:51 Macer, yeah andromeda5 felt like a terrible hangover after 3 days of partying. "huh what's going on, my brain, I can't take it" Oct 11 12:57:02 ShadowJK: hahaha Oct 11 12:57:05 Macer, maemo summit in amsterdam Oct 11 12:57:09 it was like that last season of sg1 Oct 11 12:57:18 nokia gave away 300 n900s Oct 11 12:57:20 where the cast was replaced with the cast of farscape :) Oct 11 12:57:52 s/gave away/loaned for 6 months/ Oct 11 12:57:52 mgedmin900_ meant: nokia loaned for 6 months 300 n900s Oct 11 12:58:03 atleast farscape was consistently refined lunacy througghout Oct 11 12:58:06 loaned? Oct 11 12:58:14 qwerty12_N810: /home/user/baseq3 Oct 11 12:58:15 seriously? Oct 11 12:58:20 * qwerty12_N810 got his for a year, outside of the Summit Oct 11 12:58:21 but I fucked up some option. give me one moment to fix it. Oct 11 12:58:29 and kinda fun they took some of it with them to sg Oct 11 12:58:36 omcfadde_: Heh, thanks Oct 11 12:58:57 canola looks good Oct 11 12:59:31 ShadowJK: haha Oct 11 12:59:44 sg1 was pure humor Oct 11 13:00:12 like the one where thte colonel was living the life with the other guy :) like they were mentally linked and he never told anybody Oct 11 13:00:53 but this damn andromeda season.. with the alternate universe Oct 11 13:01:44 and what's up with the white girl that plays the ship? Oct 11 13:02:00 strace FTW Oct 11 13:02:04 they got rid of lexa or something? :) or was it because she was spawning babies? Oct 11 13:02:10 Alternate universes could be good. Oct 11 13:02:10 omcfadde_: Got it working, thanks! Oct 11 13:02:28 For example, I'd want to see the alternate universe Enterprise, with empress Sato. Oct 11 13:02:44 qwerty12_N810: cool :) Oct 11 13:02:52 yeah, I accidentally messed up the basegame name Oct 11 13:02:58 it's "foobar" but should be "baseq3" :p Oct 11 13:03:01 SpeedEvil: the new star trek movie did that Oct 11 13:03:07 macer: hangover and waking up next to unknown person, man Oct 11 13:03:20 ShadowJK: haha Oct 11 13:03:33 i suppose they just ran outu of storylines in one universe Oct 11 13:03:44 and science fiction allows for the creation of alternate universes Oct 11 13:04:30 and she's the ship, and lexa is the ship too, yet they argue? wtf, like waking up in hangover to your gf asking what unknown person is doing in your bed Oct 11 13:04:55 I think harper built the blonde, yet he still doesn't get any Oct 11 13:04:59 sgu seems quite nice, at least the first episode Oct 11 13:05:25 cool topic! Oct 11 13:06:15 ShadowJK: well... it didn't matter before Oct 11 13:06:28 now there are 2 different people playing the ship.. and that's just stupid :) Oct 11 13:06:57 ShadowJK: yeah. he built her Oct 11 13:08:31 how many seasons did andromeda run for Oct 11 13:08:37 5 Oct 11 13:08:43 I don't remember past alternate universe Oct 11 13:08:52 oh maybe that's why then Oct 11 13:08:54 the ending of 4 and beginning of 5 like.. are idiotic :) Oct 11 13:09:13 was that tesserac-tastic Oct 11 13:09:30 powertop preinstalled!! Oct 11 13:09:37 at the end of 4 trance goes supernova Oct 11 13:09:45 and blows that world ship thing up Oct 11 13:10:10 and it seems like everybody dies but they all pop up in some alternate wild west universe Oct 11 13:10:24 it is stupid :).. i don't want to watch it anymore Oct 11 13:11:06 yeah see, the problem is causality Oct 11 13:11:32 it feels like a brutal hangover enshrouding your brain Oct 11 13:11:39 sure does Oct 11 13:11:41 but you havent had booze Oct 11 13:11:49 i did. i'm hungover now Oct 11 13:12:01 hah.. thank god i hooked this remote up to the comuter Oct 11 13:12:06 the fix is to have booze, then 5th season makes sense Oct 11 13:12:26 or to just not watch it Oct 11 13:12:28 or atleast becomes vaguely amusing Oct 11 13:12:33 fixes the hangover too Oct 11 13:12:38 heh Oct 11 13:12:47 * onion starting to get a headache Oct 11 13:13:03 the tablet mode of this touchbook is so utterly horrible Oct 11 13:13:07 must be the 3 days of partying Oct 11 13:13:50 now they have a groundhog's day episode.. because nothing screams science like a time loop Oct 11 13:14:18 those are so boring Oct 11 13:14:30 the one on sg1 was pretty good Oct 11 13:14:33 they made it comical Oct 11 13:14:43 like when they're golfing into the stargate Oct 11 13:14:45 uhoh, that "locking device at 600mhz will fry it" sounds promising for exploding phones :D Oct 11 13:14:57 frals: haha Oct 11 13:14:57 yeah, true Oct 11 13:15:03 this tb is locked at 600MHz Oct 11 13:15:15 locking n810 to 400MHz barely changes power use Oct 11 13:15:37 they need to work on the omap kernel a little bit more Oct 11 13:15:41 to get it to throttle correctly Oct 11 13:16:14 well, sleep while idle probably does more than cpu&voltage scaling really Oct 11 13:16:45 and it wont sleep much if it keeps waking up all the time.. i think nokia has paid much attention to this Oct 11 13:16:56 despite not having powertop before ;) Oct 11 13:17:03 mer: not yet ready for end-user Oct 11 13:18:58 no sound, gps, led Oct 11 13:19:09 on n810 Oct 11 13:20:04 open 3d driver exists for n810 --- did I get that right??? Oct 11 13:20:17 coming in 2 weeks Oct 11 13:20:20 about Oct 11 13:20:24 open?! Oct 11 13:20:26 cool Oct 11 13:20:35 mgedmin900_: accounced a couple of days ago :-) Oct 11 13:20:44 do you mean open, or just, a 3d driver? Oct 11 13:20:52 one of those 'hell freezes over' moments Oct 11 13:20:52 open Oct 11 13:20:58 URL? Oct 11 13:21:24 I don't remember it being open. I remember them saying it's a 3d driver... Oct 11 13:21:25 it is not released yet, TI guy said about 2 weeks Oct 11 13:22:32 open seems preeeety unlikely to me Oct 11 13:22:42 Robot101: Your guys still working on Facebook chat? Oct 11 13:24:00 hrm I forgot about that. theoretically you should be able to install the plugin and delete haze's .manager file, and make a .profile, and it should work Oct 11 13:24:15 but I think some accounts thingy crashes without the .manager file Oct 11 13:26:10 I know that's what was happening to me in Diablo... Galego was crashing, killing off showing status of my contacts in the contacts list. Oct 11 13:27:32 Fuckkkk... come on, extras-devel... wake the fuck up. Oct 11 13:27:56 i think it waas open in-kernel part and closed userspace part? Oct 11 13:30:13 Just the fact that something is coming out at all, open or closed, is quite a coup. Oct 11 13:30:37 indeed! Oct 11 13:31:02 t-shirts for most prolific bug reporters Oct 11 13:31:35 Well... awesome... means all the people that got their tablets at Summit will be able to report all the bugs I could not (and still can't). Oct 11 13:31:38 to provide drivers at this stage, for a end-of-life product is quite awsome :) Oct 11 13:31:44 q3 starts but spins dial? Oct 11 13:31:52 got a pk3 in foobar Oct 11 13:33:08 * pupnik stabs with strace Oct 11 13:35:37 extras-devel is failing for me... "No Hash entry in release file" Oct 11 13:35:39 Any ideas? Oct 11 13:35:55 retry later Oct 11 13:36:06 worked here Oct 11 13:38:49 pupnik: N900? Oct 11 13:40:26 yes Oct 11 13:40:26 retry Oct 11 13:40:51 anybody want to hewp Oct 11 13:42:28 and the summit is over Oct 11 13:42:36 three awesome days Oct 11 13:45:09 * mgedmin900_ still hasn't got the hang on socializing Oct 11 13:45:51 mgedmin900_: socialising is easy. Just add a "post to twitter" button somewhere and you've socialised it. Oct 11 13:49:19 zerojay: vi the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-applicationmanagerwhatever-list Oct 11 13:49:32 and see if there is an enter in the end Oct 11 13:49:57 zerojay: I had the same, maybe appman had a bug when I tried to add the repo from the .install file Oct 11 13:50:27 or maybe it was just broken and wrked later Oct 11 13:50:36 Love the shortcut for opening the terminal, btw. Oct 11 13:51:29 zerojay: What is it again? Oct 11 13:51:39 Ctrl-Shift-? Oct 11 13:51:40 Ctrl+Shift+X Oct 11 13:51:52 w00t Oct 11 13:51:59 ooh Oct 11 13:52:18 how do we discover all these shortcuts? Oct 11 13:52:27 The source is open so.... Oct 11 13:52:30 3d drivers open kernel module, closed libs Oct 11 13:52:45 pound the keyboard tile the screen changes Oct 11 13:52:53 s/tile/till Oct 11 13:53:41 that's not open Oct 11 13:54:23 good enough tbh Oct 11 13:56:07 It's the best we could probably ask for. Oct 11 13:56:28 same situation as on omap3 Oct 11 14:05:41 gps still sucks Oct 11 14:05:45 it does? Oct 11 14:06:05 mgedmin900: tell me everything bad that you have noticed Oct 11 14:06:16 * mgedmin900 is standing outdoors, online, waiting for fix Oct 11 14:06:25 how long have you been standing there Oct 11 14:06:30 and in what country Oct 11 14:06:43 He doesn't know yet until he gets a fix. Oct 11 14:06:43 dunno, five minutes? Oct 11 14:06:44 you probally got poor gps coverage on north pole! Oct 11 14:06:48 amsterdam Oct 11 14:06:56 13 min or so should generally get a fix if it's going to Oct 11 14:07:08 lool Oct 11 14:07:12 mgedmin900: I think that's more the map app than gps Oct 11 14:07:19 in finland i get a fix in under 3 minutes Oct 11 14:07:21 always Oct 11 14:07:23 what's the timeout for the location applet? Oct 11 14:07:30 cause it just gave up Oct 11 14:07:48 retrying Oct 11 14:07:52 the location applet works well. much better than ovi maps Oct 11 14:08:12 what gps-chipset is it using? Oct 11 14:08:15 gps sucks without sim Oct 11 14:08:18 same as n97? Oct 11 14:08:25 maybe it would work better if I has a sim card Oct 11 14:08:47 mgedmin900: ahhh Oct 11 14:09:18 why does it need a sim-card Oct 11 14:09:23 I had a fix this morning, so it should still have ephemeris/almanac data Oct 11 14:09:35 Stskeeps: gps needs a sim? Oct 11 14:09:40 it does not :P Oct 11 14:09:42 agps Oct 11 14:09:50 assisted-gps shoulnt be needed Oct 11 14:09:53 ha ok, so it needs a connection, not a sim Oct 11 14:10:12 celltower information is just a bonus Oct 11 14:10:23 gps should coldstart in under 3 min Oct 11 14:10:43 I suspect it no longer updates periodically over any internet connection based on previous fix Oct 11 14:10:45 13 min or so worst case Oct 11 14:10:51 does it support EGNOS? Oct 11 14:10:53 Usually lots faster Oct 11 14:10:54 I had absolute hell with GPS in the N810... it's awesome for me on the N900. Oct 11 14:11:08 maemo mapper at least shows how many sats it sees Oct 11 14:11:09 zerojay: ditto Oct 11 14:11:19 want maemo mapper for fremantle Oct 11 14:11:25 is maemo mapper usable yet? Oct 11 14:11:35 haven't seen a port Oct 11 14:11:42 hmm Oct 11 14:11:42 not in extras-devel Oct 11 14:11:50 Author is working on it. Oct 11 14:11:53 will try building later Oct 11 14:12:00 mapper's one of those apps I will never touch again unless it's got some MAJOR new features over Ovi maps. Oct 11 14:12:03 Think he has a branch in SVN for Fremantle Oct 11 14:12:13 fix! Oct 11 14:12:17 I'm looking at some simple stuff to try out the new location api Oct 11 14:12:32 5 minutes standing still Oct 11 14:12:36 should probably see if mm is a good base to work on Oct 11 14:12:56 maemo mapper killer feature: works OFFLINE Oct 11 14:13:08 Uh... Oct 11 14:13:08 zerojay: major features like being usable? Oct 11 14:13:14 Why would you ever be offline on the N900? Oct 11 14:13:18 or actually working? Oct 11 14:13:32 ccooke: Works fine for me. Oct 11 14:13:37 zerojay: People like to travel and roaming can be expensive as hell? >:) Oct 11 14:13:40 I guess all the people in Ams didn't bring their sim cards :-) Oct 11 14:14:01 range: Okay, in that case, perhaps. :) Oct 11 14:14:03 a-gps uses so few bytes I had it on when I was roaming in germany :) Oct 11 14:14:07 zerojay: I tried navigating aound amsterdam on it last night. it was terrible Oct 11 14:14:18 How? Oct 11 14:14:33 kept losing tracking, and the find location ui is awful Oct 11 14:15:07 I never had a problem. GPS had me pinned within a few feet at all times when using Ovi maps... and if I go offtrack, recalculates route just fine too. Oct 11 14:15:23 zerojay: still onsite? Oct 11 14:15:31 ccooke: Huh? Oct 11 14:15:47 so does the n900 include a magnetometer or not? Oct 11 14:15:51 are you still at westergasfabriek Oct 11 14:15:55 so much talk that it does and it does not Oct 11 14:16:04 ccooke: I have to be there before I can still be there. :) Oct 11 14:16:08 someone with a damn n900 in there hands could probally answer Oct 11 14:16:15 ccooke: I was fully sponsored to go to Amsterdam, but had to cancel. Oct 11 14:16:24 I have it in my hands. Oct 11 14:16:25 EspadaV8: oh, sorry Oct 11 14:16:30 huh Oct 11 14:16:50 As far as I know, there's no magnetometer. Oct 11 14:16:53 s/EspadaV8/ zerojay/ Oct 11 14:17:18 Ceron^: no Oct 11 14:17:34 zerojay: okay. load up ovi maps. Oct 11 14:17:35 Ceron^: just GPS - reportedly at least. I ack one in my hands. Oct 11 14:17:39 lack Oct 11 14:17:47 ccooke: k. Oct 11 14:17:48 touch the top-right wkidget Oct 11 14:17:59 select the first icon Oct 11 14:18:14 loading... Oct 11 14:18:27 just checking on here what I did Oct 11 14:18:34 Top right widget closes the app. :) Oct 11 14:18:49 Jesus, it is slow Oct 11 14:18:59 * ShadowJK just placed Nokia E75 (A-gps disabled), N810 (A-gps enabled) and a Sirfstar III bluetooth gps next to eachother near a window Oct 11 14:18:59 ccooke: So... find places then? Oct 11 14:19:23 E75 and N810 no fix, sirfstar gave a position but claims 0 satellites used... not sure what ot make out of that Oct 11 14:19:31 I'm in my basement apartment and GPS is still working perfectly fine for me and has me 100% pinpointed. Oct 11 14:19:31 Windows vary Oct 11 14:19:44 zerojay: type slo Oct 11 14:19:46 Windows with low-emission coatings can be very reflective of GPS Oct 11 14:19:53 then try scrolling the list Oct 11 14:20:05 No results found. Oct 11 14:20:11 yeah, the gps hardware seems really nice Oct 11 14:20:22 damn, different results Oct 11 14:20:40 I'm in Canada, so... yeah.. Oct 11 14:20:48 okay, I'll do a proper bug report Oct 11 14:20:59 Canada: No results found Oct 11 14:21:13 zerojay: still, there's nowhere with a name starting 'slo'? Oct 11 14:21:18 apparently we have no dentists in canada either. lol Oct 11 14:21:32 ccooke: In canada, no. Oct 11 14:21:48 hmm Oct 11 14:21:57 I typed in water and got a long list. Oct 11 14:22:11 ccooke: If you're trying to replicate the shitty scrolling of it; Oxford Street, London works well Oct 11 14:22:19 is it possible to exit ovi maps from the app Oct 11 14:22:36 qwerty12_N810: interesting. it was really bad last night Oct 11 14:22:46 ccooke: Yes, hit the top right twice. Oct 11 14:23:14 ah well. intermittant is better. Oct 11 14:23:24 No issues here except for the scrollbar not fitting Fremantle standards. Oct 11 14:23:44 * ccooke retracts 50% of his ire Oct 11 14:23:49 :-) Oct 11 14:25:44 (... and yes, it's working fine here, now. I'll have to work out what was up last night) Oct 11 14:25:46 * qwerty12_N810 wonders why he didn't make his tap-and-hold GtkMenu a HildonAppMenu before Oct 11 14:26:54 :) Oct 11 14:27:11 Hey, b-man17, happy birthday Oct 11 14:27:20 heh. Oct 11 14:27:24 Hey, b-man17, happy birthday Oct 11 14:27:28 Yep, lol Oct 11 14:27:43 thank you qwerty12 :) Oct 11 14:28:40 The real reason for Transmission's existance: Quake 3 data files Oct 11 14:28:58 *existence Oct 11 14:29:02 indeed xD Oct 11 14:29:38 oh, the number in the end incremented, happy bday :p Oct 11 14:30:00 lol thanks xD Oct 11 14:30:17 yeah ex-b-man16, happy bday :D Oct 11 14:30:26 ~seen b-man16 Oct 11 14:30:52 b-man16 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11h 31m 36s ago, saying: 'g2g - ill see you guys tomorrow - getting late here too ;)'. Oct 11 14:31:23 heh. happy birthday :-) Oct 11 14:31:51 thanks ccooke :) Oct 11 14:32:25 hay penguinbait Oct 11 14:32:55 16-17 what did you have a birthday? Oct 11 14:33:07 yup - today xD Oct 11 14:33:10 * ccooke has another day before he leaves amsterdam, and wanted to do some fiddling about with some simple apps. Oct 11 14:33:14 happy birthday!! Oct 11 14:33:17 qwerty12_N810: Link meh. Oct 11 14:33:21 :D Oct 11 14:33:46 ccooke: Amsterdam? Apps? Man, you're boring. ;P Oct 11 14:33:54 zerojay: www.thepiratebay.org Oct 11 14:34:40 lol Oct 11 14:35:08 qwerty12_N810: AlaughA Oct 11 14:35:08 drat Oct 11 14:35:08 qwerty12_N810: +1 :D Oct 11 14:35:13 keep expecting fn to be bolttom left :-) Oct 11 14:35:56 frozen bubble 2 missing perl-modules Oct 11 14:36:14 Only location app I'd try and write if I was there would be one that told me the location of the nearest coffee shop. And I'd keep making sure it worked, of course ;p Oct 11 14:36:31 pupnik: Yup, on my TODO list Oct 11 14:36:41 ccooke: I keep doing the same :p Oct 11 14:36:52 me too. Oct 11 14:36:55 nice choice for a port Oct 11 14:37:10 way up near the top for release Oct 11 14:37:20 pupnik: I had it running on the N800, just a little slow :/ Oct 11 14:37:31 mhm Oct 11 14:38:04 looks like a hildonized rubybox would be nice for n900 Oct 11 14:38:06 qwerty12_N810: Imve seen plenty of Amsterdam already, and will see a lot more tonight. Oct 11 14:38:21 :) Oct 11 14:38:27 i'm thinking initially of a gps bookmarker Oct 11 14:38:36 ah yes, i lost my friends to airplane so if i can tag along? Oct 11 14:38:44 pupnik: ukki is there, is he not? Tell him to get a move on :p Oct 11 14:38:46 tigert: The "No Hash entry in Release file" is right.. the actual release file on the server doesn't have it. Oct 11 14:38:51 he left Oct 11 14:38:56 bookmark this location, then alert you when you reach a bookmarked place Oct 11 14:39:01 pupnik: For Finland? Oct 11 14:39:10 oh, no, he is not planning on it qwerty Oct 11 14:39:12 (with directions later) Oct 11 14:39:13 yes Oct 11 14:39:31 pupnik: Grr, I'm guessing he didn't pick up an N900? Oct 11 14:39:39 he did Oct 11 14:40:03 but nobody afaik is doing ruby bindings Oct 11 14:40:17 You should've thrown his iPhone out the window Oct 11 14:40:23 :0 Oct 11 14:40:26 lol Oct 11 14:40:41 i think ukki can beat any of us up Oct 11 14:40:52 * pupnik is scared of finns :) Oct 11 14:41:38 ty for that python unzip Oct 11 14:42:26 Oh, by the way, my N800 has http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/ in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list ... it seems that repository is empty and my packages are outdated Oct 11 14:42:47 ... is there a new repository I should be using instead, anything that's still maintained? Oct 11 14:43:15 Alrighty.. can someone fix Extras-devel, please? Oct 11 14:43:44 i do not remember that repo. google gronmayer maemo to see what repositories have what apps Oct 11 14:43:56 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/dists/fremantle/Release <-- good Oct 11 14:44:09 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release <-- Broken. Oct 11 14:44:18 zerojay: ah ok Oct 11 14:44:20 Lupu: It's not empty... Just that directory listing is not allowed Oct 11 14:44:28 zerojay: then the repo is broken Oct 11 14:44:38 And you're not gonna see anymore SSUs for Diablo Oct 11 14:44:39 actually i have that same probldem now Oct 11 14:44:54 tigert: So... who do we beat up for it? Oct 11 14:45:28 help with mer Oct 11 14:45:42 Hello, i would like to ask if there's any news on MER or Ubuntu for NIT 800 plz Oct 11 14:46:01 qwerty12_N810: Alright thanks. Actually, that's something I've been a little confused over. Is SSU (in this case) a synonym for apt updates? Oct 11 14:46:30 ~ssu Oct 11 14:46:40 Damn Oct 11 14:46:41 ssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU Oct 11 14:48:14 there is news for mer Oct 11 14:48:43 n800 and n810 will be getting opengl es, so mer can stay current with clutter Oct 11 14:49:02 needs testers, join #mer Oct 11 14:49:25 yes thanks pupnik i have n800 and n810 for help the process of testing. Oct 11 14:49:27 ls -ltr Oct 11 14:49:29 will joing right now. Oct 11 14:49:30 argh Oct 11 14:49:36 join Oct 11 14:49:44 qwerty12_N810: I've read that before already, but since it doesn't mention the technology used it's left me uncertain about it. Is it Nokia's own push update implementation or just apt-get but avoiding that terminology deliberately? Oct 11 14:50:44 apt-get with magic. Oct 11 14:50:49 closer to ubuntus way Oct 11 14:51:00 Alright, thanks. Oct 11 14:51:00 b-man17: happy bman day :) Oct 11 14:51:29 Fremantle extras-devel is broken. Is there anyone awake that can help fix it? Oct 11 14:52:15 wazd: thanks :) Oct 11 14:52:16 not sure if x-fade and jeremiah are anywhere Oct 11 14:52:28 possibly on a pane Oct 11 14:52:30 plane Oct 11 14:52:38 jeremiah_in-tran: ping Oct 11 14:52:44 X-Fade: ping Oct 11 14:57:39 any news when the n800 opengl drivers willbe published? Oct 11 14:58:10 I happen to have a set at home, but that's not the one that will be published (2 years old). Oct 11 14:58:55 Heard in two weeks. Oct 11 14:59:17 great news indeed Oct 11 15:01:07 Could I ask all which OS have you tested succesfully on NIT800 despite MER? Oct 11 15:01:39 i'm little bit curious of experiment on my NIT 800 ... i've tested KDE, DEBLET and LXDE but all on top of Maemo Oct 11 15:03:23 lalcaraz, well there's debian Oct 11 15:04:16 Firebird, running from boot? or on the top of Maemo? Oct 11 15:04:26 from boot of course Oct 11 15:05:04 though, I thought that's what deblet was Oct 11 15:05:08 mm interesting, i would like to test that one ... does it have X and sound working all along, Firebird ? Oct 11 15:06:55 Next classic gaming wallpaper for N900: Super Mario Bros 2, World 1-1 from the SNES port. Oct 11 15:06:57 lalcaraz, you said you tried deblet, which is the debian on boot Oct 11 15:07:19 zerojay, any plans for abstract or landscape wallpapers? Oct 11 15:07:52 doing a 360 panorama would be a neat wallpaper Oct 11 15:08:10 Firebird: I think there are a couple of those on the themes website Oct 11 15:08:20 Firebird, aww ... yeah, i was thinking was different from what i tried before .. nope that one tested and to be honest preffer maemo booting from SD as i have it now, with CLEAN installation on the device .. works kinda nice i must say. Oct 11 15:08:36 ... actually, you can generate a 360 panorama from google's street view. Oct 11 15:08:56 I wonder if you can easily set the wallpaper programmatically :-) Oct 11 15:08:56 does street view go to the center of the grand canyon? Oct 11 15:09:21 * Firebird slaps ccooke with a large fish Oct 11 15:10:12 Firebird: Other people are doing that already. I'm doing panoramic versions of levels from classic games. Oct 11 15:10:23 zerojay: fun ones, too :-) Oct 11 15:10:31 ah Oct 11 15:10:35 ccooke: Glad you're enjoying them. :) Oct 11 15:10:44 Firebird: that's not very friendly, you know :-) Oct 11 15:10:45 is the debian page in the ITT wiki still relevant? Oct 11 15:12:00 ccooke, a large majority of the landscape and abstract wallpapers only cover one screen Oct 11 15:12:39 Firebird: n900wallpapers.com Oct 11 15:12:48 that's where I'm looking Oct 11 15:12:52 Ok. Oct 11 15:12:59 I know everything I'm uploading is 4 screens. Oct 11 15:13:03 Dunno about the rest. Oct 11 15:13:12 Don't see the point of just single wallpapers. Oct 11 15:17:10 I don't see the point why n900 doesnt just support using 3200x480 photos. Oct 11 15:17:20 and autosplitting those. Oct 11 15:17:24 Yeah, that too. Oct 11 15:17:36 * konttori__ will raise that one up. Oct 11 15:17:43 Did anyone go to hildon talk?Any plan for hildon? Oct 11 15:18:29 Hmm. A background installer wouldn't be difficulr to write. Something that'll work with 3200x480 photos, too Oct 11 15:39:05 ioquake3 is in extras-devel. Oct 11 15:39:09 Missing dependency. Oct 11 15:39:23 might have to stick gentoo on my n900 when i get it :) Oct 11 15:44:51 kynky: wow, brave1 Oct 11 15:46:12 well debian arm works, all i goto todo s do some cross compiling in an embedded environment on desktop, and setup a binhost, so will just be like doing apt-get for debian arm Oct 11 15:51:27 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32627 this concerns me :( Oct 11 15:54:58 yawn Oct 11 15:56:21 moop Oct 11 15:56:48 ~coin Oct 11 15:56:49 it has been said that coin is flipped... heads or tails? Oct 11 15:57:14 I assume -dbg packages should be optified too.... Oct 11 15:57:14 ~heads Oct 11 15:57:28 ~flip Oct 11 15:57:29 * infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... tails! Oct 11 15:57:56 ~flip Oct 11 15:57:57 * infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... tails! Oct 11 15:58:02 xD Oct 11 15:59:03 ~flip Oct 11 15:59:05 * infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... heads! Oct 11 15:59:12 :) Oct 11 16:00:34 ~flip Oct 11 16:00:35 * infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... tails! Oct 11 16:00:45 god, i fail xD Oct 11 16:02:14 what is changed in the q3 update? Oct 11 16:02:23 i think it doesnt like myy pk3 Oct 11 16:12:18 hardware of n900 is capable of running harmattan. some gimmics (like pinch) would need to be left out. Oct 11 16:12:27 b-man17: ^ Oct 11 16:19:09 konttori__: thanks :) Oct 11 16:21:24 ~flip ? Oct 11 16:21:25 * infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... oshi--it's the side! Oct 11 16:21:31 O.o Oct 11 16:25:31 lol Oct 11 16:25:48 hmm, that is worrying b-man17 Oct 11 16:26:03 i'm hoping that OS-wise the n900 will run Maemo Oct 11 16:26:04 6 Oct 11 16:26:25 just no support for multi-touch ? Oct 11 16:26:41 i believe so Oct 11 16:26:44 no support for pinch atleast Oct 11 16:26:48 in hardware Oct 11 16:27:03 * ShadowJK hopes they will be able to find an accurate touchscreen Oct 11 16:27:11 I'm not a big fan of fingerpainting :-( Oct 11 16:27:42 garage needs "Maemo 5" OS category. Oct 11 16:27:49 resistive touch screen sounded good to me for n900 (although it got slated on engadget iirc) Oct 11 16:28:12 kynky: slated by engadget bloggers, defended by engadget commenters. Oct 11 16:28:36 * b-man17 just hopes the N900 doesnt turn into what the N770 had become - supporting only one offical maemo release :( Oct 11 16:28:58 i would've liked them to use capacitive for the n900, but a few people here seem to like the resistive instead Oct 11 16:28:59 javispedro, not like they biased :) as they blog via iphones Oct 11 16:29:09 yeah. Oct 11 16:29:29 resistive is more accurate i thought, and beter for stylus/gloved fingers Oct 11 16:29:38 i don't see any advantage of using resistive these days Oct 11 16:29:47 accuracy? Oct 11 16:29:52 stylus? Oct 11 16:29:53 accurate? Oct 11 16:30:13 precision then Oct 11 16:30:20 you can click really tiny objects Oct 11 16:30:24 like apple have done with the iphone though, if the OS is done correctly, you shouldn't need a stylus Oct 11 16:30:35 * EspadaV8 can't believe he's defending the iphone :( Oct 11 16:30:40 But I _do_ want a stylus, vs 72pt fonts. Oct 11 16:30:50 ;) Oct 11 16:30:52 EspadaV8, surely that depends on what you want to do, pros/cons Oct 11 16:30:52 javispedro, yeah exactly :) Oct 11 16:30:53 drawing on a capacitive screen is very poor Oct 11 16:31:55 iphone has a rubbish resolution, with n900 you might want pixel precision foer its high res, gimp would be hard for iphone, imho Oct 11 16:32:26 iphone + gimp = impossible :D Oct 11 16:32:40 I sure hope maemo6 stays resistive with stantum multitouch panels instead of going straight to capacitive Oct 11 16:32:47 gimp + phone = ... pointless? Oct 11 16:32:58 Firebird: they have already said "Capacitive multitouch". Oct 11 16:33:04 yea, pretty lame Oct 11 16:33:07 no space for confusion there. Oct 11 16:33:18 does that mean they will have a lower resolution? Oct 11 16:33:25 makes no sense to stick with 800x480 Oct 11 16:33:28 but capacitive tech could get better by 2011 Oct 11 16:33:29 * b-man17 made his ubuntu-rescue-menu GUI using gimp on his N800 ;) Oct 11 16:33:32 I guess the attraction for me is that I can use mostly regular software on my N810 just fine.. like xchat, for example. SUre, someone could probably start writing something xchat-ish that displays my usual 8 point font size for chat and then zooms in to select channels, etc... but it took 5 years for xchat to become useful, I'm not that hopeful rewriting/hacking it would be that fast :) Oct 11 16:34:22 they working on multitouch resistive at mo Oct 11 16:34:45 yeah, but thinking nokia may license that is wishful at least. Oct 11 16:34:53 they're already using capacitive touchscreens. Oct 11 16:35:13 only hope is, like GAN mentioned, that they do two devices at one point. Oct 11 16:35:18 but I doubt that. Oct 11 16:35:19 well, if someone can hax usb hosting onto the N900 we can attach one of these: http://www.stantum.com/spip.php?article74 with some kernel patching Oct 11 16:35:30 and when I'm pessimist I'm usually never wrong ;) Oct 11 16:37:00 I dunno wheter optify Maemo4 packages or not. Oct 11 16:37:20 well, since there hasn't been any serious discussion about creating the /opt partition, I'd say not. Oct 11 16:38:16 heh Oct 11 16:38:26 netsplit ;) Oct 11 16:39:05 Hi Oct 11 16:39:11 precision on stratum touchscreen: 0.5mm :) Oct 11 16:39:12 hello Oct 11 16:39:27 s/stratum/stantum Oct 11 16:39:31 hello. Oct 11 16:42:28 err.. doi need to register garage.m.o and talk.m.o as 2 different accounts? Oct 11 16:43:06 yes Oct 11 16:43:22 grrr Oct 11 16:43:25 that's annoying Oct 11 16:45:14 I'd recommend staying away from capital letters when registering on g.m.o Oct 11 16:45:58 yeah, i did register in mixed case, but it lowered them all Oct 11 16:46:05 EspadaV8 -> espadav8 Oct 11 16:46:19 t.m.o took the mixed case Oct 11 16:46:46 I seriously think optifying file size threshold is too low. Even the gconf schema file goes to /opt . Oct 11 16:47:50 along with all icons save for the 26x26 one (good lord!) Oct 11 16:48:07 so, the 48x48 icon goes to /opt, but the one in the debian control file stays in the rootfs... Oct 11 16:48:44 Oct 11 16:48:56 * EspadaV8 wish he knew what javispedro was talking about Oct 11 16:49:08 maemo-optify Oct 11 16:49:24 no idea Oct 11 16:52:14 * Firebird votes for cloning rootfs to the 32gb Oct 11 16:52:27 * b-man17 does too Oct 11 16:52:51 doesn't matter. every package will be optified. Oct 11 16:52:59 *will have to be. Oct 11 16:53:30 who are the admins for the extras uploads? Oct 11 16:53:36 is that a nokia thing? Oct 11 16:53:39 really? hmm, mine aren't optified yet Oct 11 16:54:17 iirc a package installing more than half a mibibyte of files to / will not pass extras QA. Oct 11 16:54:33 wouldn't optifying maemo4 packages break them since there's no /opt on maemo4? Oct 11 16:55:03 ShadowJK: there's /opt, only in rootfs. Oct 11 16:55:03 so it just creates and aditional symlink wasting space. Oct 11 16:55:03 s/and/an. Oct 11 16:55:40 ah Oct 11 16:56:29 * GeneralAntilles shudders. Oct 11 16:56:38 Supporting locked and unlocked users may very well kill me. Oct 11 16:56:38 javispedro, so if anyone has hard coded paths they need to change it to /opt ? Oct 11 16:57:09 Firebird: not necessarily if you run the default "Optifier", since it will fill / with symlinks to every file created in /opt. Oct 11 16:57:21 anyone tried OpenTTD on n900!? Oct 11 16:57:23 ah, symlinks Oct 11 16:57:36 and capacitive Oct 11 16:57:45 capacitive... Oct 11 16:57:49 I can't believe Nokia bowled over for the Engadget retard brigade. Oct 11 16:57:50 Ceron^: what happens? Oct 11 16:57:52 btw, can i get an external mouse + keyboard plugged into the n900? :D Oct 11 16:58:31 http://twitpic.com/h39sw Oct 11 16:58:33 win! Oct 11 16:58:38 gah Oct 11 16:59:04 Ceron^: go to Game Options and change window resolution. Oct 11 17:00:05 i want to play openttd with an external mouse + keyboard on 50" screen Oct 11 17:00:10 * DocScrutinizer wonders what happened to old school of having /usr, /opt, /home and a few others on a different filesystem than / Oct 11 17:00:32 there was a thread on debian-devel recently :) Oct 11 17:00:32 it's back. Oct 11 17:01:03 aww, drag-lock deleted itself again Oct 11 17:10:40 omcfadde: In Quake 3, are you always meant to be moving forward? :p Oct 11 17:11:56 kynky: C-TS never will overcome inherent inability to sense a pinpoint sylus, not in 2011 and not in 20 years. || Multitouch is no exclusive feature of C-TS. MT for R-TS is a rather old technique, and it's basically rather simple. Oct 11 17:13:27 doesn't matter. marketing has spoken. Oct 11 17:13:49 kynky: and then there are quite some not so wellknown other technologies for TS. Like force detect, surface wave... Oct 11 17:13:56 heh, package n900-fmrx-enabler :P Oct 11 17:14:41 Ceron^: I'm the maintainer (currently) for OpenTTD port, so if you experience any problem tell me. Oct 11 17:15:10 i dont own a n900 that is my problem Oct 11 17:15:40 ...does the N810 USB cable work with the N900? Oct 11 17:16:00 Firebird: should. why not? Oct 11 17:16:17 didn't realize it was the same USB plug until now Oct 11 17:17:14 Ceron^: ah. Oct 11 17:17:45 Ceron^: ah. then, answering your question: you cannot play openttd on 50'' screen with external mouse. Oct 11 17:18:00 because tv out resolution is hardcoded AFAIK and no USB Host support. Oct 11 17:18:38 javispedro: what about bluetooth mouse + keyboard? Oct 11 17:18:52 Ceron^: more probable, but not out of the box either., Oct 11 17:18:52 i have seen ppl using wiimote Oct 11 17:19:04 Ceron^: n8x0 Oct 11 17:20:34 and you'd need to contact me to get a build capable of drawing the mouse pointer (i removed it from the current one). Oct 11 17:20:35 Ceron^: BT mouse&kbd should work, I'd guess. If plug in to USB works ootb depends on whether Nokia spent a USB-hostmode power supply Oct 11 17:21:23 there is no usb hostmode at all (and it is not known yet if that is fixable in software) Oct 11 17:21:48 after the price the showstopper of n900 Oct 11 17:22:13 That's been discussed widely, and my notion on that still is the SoC-IF for sure is capable of hostmode protocol Oct 11 17:22:38 Can somebody ship the old iconset for FBReader. Oct 11 17:22:48 The new one is so ugly. Oct 11 17:24:29 * GAN800 wishes rtcomm would respect the 'screen name' setting. Oct 11 17:31:47 help Oct 11 17:31:58 i have a problem :) Oct 11 17:32:12 can someone help me manage .po files? Oct 11 17:32:49 someone gave me changed po files wv the po entries in an order randomly different from my own Oct 11 17:33:07 is there a tool that can do something useful about that? Oct 11 17:33:16 qwerty12, ping? Oct 11 17:33:26 GAN800: yep? Oct 11 17:33:44 Where do I get the gles common package? Oct 11 17:34:20 weird, i can't remove connections saved in my N800 Oct 11 17:34:33 GAN800: Nokia-binaries Oct 11 17:34:35 also, it doesn't connect to any wifi network Oct 11 17:35:02 qwerty12, ugh. Oct 11 17:35:14 GAN800: I had some dep problems, however, so I just downloaded the deb files from there manually and forced an install Oct 11 17:35:36 Quake 3 now runs but it has some odd gameplay Oct 11 17:36:05 * javispedro reads about Harmattan "open" and "closed" modes. WTF. Oct 11 17:36:16 url? Oct 11 17:36:45 timeless: http://www.coveritlive.com/mobile.php?option=com_mobile&task=viewaltcast&altcast_code=fe89a01dd2&start=3 Oct 11 17:36:49 qwerty12, too lazy. I'll install it when they get their shit together. Oct 11 17:37:00 is the n810 dead now? Oct 11 17:37:38 No Oct 11 17:37:52 3D drivers coming out in two weeks Oct 11 17:38:00 i thought the n900 wa the new all-singing all-dancing wonderkid who was going to change the world Oct 11 17:38:08 It is Oct 11 17:38:10 3d drivers for n810??!! Oct 11 17:38:24 But it didn't kill current N810s. Oct 11 17:38:33 good cos i love my n810 Oct 11 17:38:43 * SpeedEvil sighs. Oct 11 17:38:57 and wtf does http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackarus/4001102936/ mean? Oct 11 17:39:05 * GAN800 wonders how Clutter will run. Oct 11 17:39:43 javispedro: it supports only 500mhz terminal design problems Oct 11 17:39:45 javispedro: It means what it says on the tin. Oct 11 17:39:51 GAN800: on what Oct 11 17:40:00 Weird Oct 11 17:40:01 javispedro: locking it at high frequency will damage it - for whatever reason Oct 11 17:40:02 s/terminal/therminal Oct 11 17:40:08 is the n810 being open sourced in effect? Oct 11 17:40:29 and those kind of things are lost in a slide in a flicker photograph? Oct 11 17:40:49 I hope the builtin cpufreq handles that. Oct 11 17:41:05 i just got my n810 back from palco after being repaired ... 2 months Oct 11 17:41:19 MoonTiger, not really. Oct 11 17:41:36 But it means Mer can probably do some cool stuff. Oct 11 17:41:41 I feel the pain MoonTiger, I sent my subwoofer amp back for repairs (20 business days + shipping). took the person over 2 months before it was even shipped back :/ Oct 11 17:41:53 i feel your pain* Oct 11 17:41:55 javispedro, I'm sure it does. Oct 11 17:41:57 lol just woke up :/ Oct 11 17:43:14 and then they got the shipping data wrong and customs here wanted to charge me $120 import duty Oct 11 17:43:17 *sigh* Oct 11 17:44:24 ^ didnt have that Oct 11 17:44:26 that sux though Oct 11 17:45:28 yah ... i kinda lost it with them on the fone ... after 2 months of waiting that was too much Oct 11 17:45:39 so they paid it by refunding the cost of the repair Oct 11 17:45:46 was nice of them Oct 11 17:46:04 iirc TI specs lists the expected lifetime for "overdrive" at >500MHz Oct 11 17:47:44 Who has MicroB running on Diablo? ;) Oct 11 17:48:09 * qwerty12_N810 has browserd disabled, and proud of it Oct 11 17:48:21 Me. Why? Oct 11 17:48:39 * SpeedEvil wonders if it's just a thermal issue. Oct 11 17:48:43 GAN800, are these 3d drivers going to be in a ota update? Oct 11 17:48:56 SpeedEvil: i found this... http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/4781/ Oct 11 17:48:57 Or if you've got cunt density issues going on too like in the nvidia case. Oct 11 17:49:11 doesn't say much tho. Oct 11 17:49:21 "cunt density"? Oct 11 17:49:37 Hen night Oct 11 17:50:13 does the browser in Maaemo 5 use browserd? Oct 11 17:50:18 qwerty12_N810, i was wondering about that too Oct 11 17:50:24 MoonTiger, no. Oct 11 17:50:27 Intreresting Oct 11 17:50:29 Argh Oct 11 17:50:32 current density Oct 11 17:50:55 GAN800, oh ok Oct 11 17:51:15 The nvida gpu issue was partially due to the high current flow through balls, combined with thermal issues. Oct 11 17:51:36 MoonTiger, if somebody in the community gets their shit together enough to ship a community SSU, then maybe. Oct 11 17:52:36 bah, how quickly one releases an open device then goes back to making more closed ones. Oct 11 17:53:13 Harmattan? Oct 11 17:53:31 yes. Oct 11 17:53:47 Yeah. :/ Oct 11 17:53:51 We'll see. Oct 11 17:54:50 b-man17: yes, it uses browserd Oct 11 17:54:59 that's the architecture of microb Oct 11 17:54:59 The whole canvas concept just leaves me thinking that will be a fucking pain in the ass. Oct 11 17:55:16 plus capacitive screen... not buying. Oct 11 17:55:25 well, not linking what I see so far. Oct 11 17:55:29 s/linking/liking. Oct 11 17:55:33 Harmattan sounds like . . . lots of things I don't want. Oct 11 17:55:48 Harmattan sounds like Symbian/WinMo Oct 11 17:56:00 Maybe they'll slash the n900 price and continue to sell it Oct 11 17:56:00 This, of course, is why I was fearing the whole 'mainstream' thing. Oct 11 17:56:11 Maybe Oct 11 17:56:31 guess this answers the "why" question. Oct 11 17:56:43 Maemo Devices feels like it's being taken over by the marketing droids. Oct 11 17:56:48 * GAN800 sighs Oct 11 17:56:55 * javispedro depresses. Oct 11 17:57:13 hmm Oct 11 17:57:24 Hopefully we'll know more soon so I don't waste my time longer than is necessary. Oct 11 17:58:46 Worst (best) case. Oct 11 17:59:01 if someone made working handwriting recognition for asian languages maybe there's be resistive version for asian market :) Oct 11 17:59:18 Some other smaller maker notices the moderate interest in n900 and thinks that opensource is cool, and runs with mer+... Oct 11 17:59:28 The platform is going to diverge more from desktop Debian. And I can't see that as a good thing. Oct 11 17:59:47 Maybe we can watch Anssi get on stage again next year and tell us how to use Facebook. Oct 11 17:59:56 At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if someone "suggests" dropping Xorg altogether because "Xorg support for multitouch sucks"/"performance" or whatever reasons. Oct 11 18:00:02 my problem with the n900 (well one of them) is the size ... its too small 'cos it had to be a fone as well Oct 11 18:00:12 that res of screen on a device that small is silly Oct 11 18:00:22 It's really not. Oct 11 18:00:23 Res is stupid. Oct 11 18:00:30 The screen is amazing. Oct 11 18:00:30 You cannot see >200dpi Oct 11 18:00:39 Sure - it'd be amazing at 200dpi Oct 11 18:00:42 You don't notice the size difference Oct 11 18:00:42 MoonTiger: Looking at the one in my hands, I can safely say that it is awesome Oct 11 18:00:52 i think the n810 screen is wonderful ... the n900 is significantly smaller Oct 11 18:00:59 SpeedEvil: I can see 1px in n810, and my sight is not good at all. Oct 11 18:01:02 really? Oct 11 18:01:07 SpeedEvil, that's clearly not a completely arbitray number. Oct 11 18:01:08 javispedro: sure - you can see 1px Oct 11 18:01:28 javispedro: can you see the difference between 1px at 300dpi, and 1px at 200dpi Oct 11 18:01:29 MoonTiger, it's really not significantly smaller. Oct 11 18:01:34 i just bought a n86 fone so i dont need a n900 for a good while yet Oct 11 18:01:46 seeing 1px means you can perceive visual benefits from > 200dpi screens. Oct 11 18:01:56 I don't want to see any pixels. Oct 11 18:01:57 javispedro: It doesn't Oct 11 18:02:05 javispedro: I can see an individual star. Oct 11 18:02:15 I see dead people Oct 11 18:02:19 hehe Oct 11 18:02:20 javispedro: This does not mean that my eyes resolution is 1/star-visual-size Oct 11 18:02:20 Wait, wrong channel Oct 11 18:02:21 * GAN800 launches ph's out of a cannon at MoonTiger. . . . Oct 11 18:02:37 SpeedEvil: this is the usual "25fps is not enough for the human eye if not motion blurred" discussion. Oct 11 18:02:49 * MoonTiger ducks Oct 11 18:02:58 Grapeshot. Oct 11 18:03:00 javispedro: not quite. Oct 11 18:03:03 heh Oct 11 18:03:13 25fps is enough for asteroids Oct 11 18:03:26 i have my new t500 + my repaired n810 + my new n86 ... i have enough tech right now Oct 11 18:03:30 no, not that discussion again :=) Oct 11 18:03:44 SpeedEvil, speaking as somebody whose used both. The resolution is not 'silly'. Oct 11 18:03:54 javispedro: It's that at some point, the eye physically cannot resolve between text at - say 300 and 400 dpi Oct 11 18:04:13 SpeedEvil, well, we aint there yet. Oct 11 18:04:23 SpeedEvil: however, you can note a difference between quality of text at 200dpi and 300dpi Oct 11 18:04:42 Personally, I can't - unless the device is under perhaps 15cm away. Oct 11 18:04:52 And ... Oct 11 18:04:57 exactly the current distance between me and my n8x0 Oct 11 18:05:05 well, 20cm. Oct 11 18:06:01 For that use-case, sure. Oct 11 18:06:04 either way, It's not something I would flame about. Oct 11 18:06:13 it's good, but not dealbreaker. Oct 11 18:06:24 You do know you can get 10cm bifocal length glasses - to make optimal use of the resolution? Oct 11 18:06:37 * javispedro checks his glasses Oct 11 18:07:45 What really pisses me off is 100dpi desktop monitors. Oct 11 18:07:59 Because that's well below the point I was mentioning above Oct 11 18:08:26 true, but I sit at a greater distance on my desktop monitor. Oct 11 18:08:29 Not to mention widescreen, but that's a seperate issue. Oct 11 18:08:51 we need a new unit Oct 11 18:08:57 pixels / degree Oct 11 18:09:44 * javispedro shudders at mention of blessed, signed firmware Oct 11 18:09:46 * GeneralAntilles wants the new goddamn firmware. Oct 11 18:09:52 when I have n810 it fills approximately same field of view as my desktop's monitor... slightly less Oct 11 18:10:06 javispedro, yeah, somebody should probably mention to people to avoid subsidized units. ;) Oct 11 18:10:07 and as usual marketing always says "it's for protecting the user against viruses". Oct 11 18:10:13 Support. Nightmare. Oct 11 18:10:28 First question to everybody who comes in here is going to have to be: "Where did you get your device?" Oct 11 18:10:30 GeneralAntilles: I blame the goddamn Summit Oct 11 18:10:38 javispedro: i just hope they learnt something from symbian on that.. Oct 11 18:10:41 They took too much beer at the summit. Oct 11 18:10:43 Goddamnit Summit indeed. Oct 11 18:11:22 "most apps will run in unlocked mode". yeah. Oct 11 18:11:40 * GeneralAntilles will just install a custom kernel. Oct 11 18:12:13 bootloader disables drm for unsigned kernels :) Oct 11 18:12:14 by the time, I will probably go back to embedded x86. Oct 11 18:12:31 arm is doomed. Oct 11 18:12:35 MWAHAHA Oct 11 18:12:51 ShadowJK, fine by me. ;) Oct 11 18:14:25 From a marketing POV - they have to keep it closed enough to stop a random maker from china putting an OS the users already know on the device. Oct 11 18:14:30 on their device Oct 11 18:14:55 that explains why they keep the Sketch app closed. Oct 11 18:15:01 SpeedEvil: thats thinking of 100 years back Oct 11 18:15:01 but not why all the new DRM fuss. Oct 11 18:15:54 So all the game makers will make their games for maemo. :) Oct 11 18:16:03 I can understand it for business lockdown, though. Oct 11 18:16:07 I've argued for some time that microsoft went into DRM in a big way so as to stall linux for a bit. Oct 11 18:16:29 'Oh - I can't play ... under linux' Oct 11 18:16:35 (media content) Oct 11 18:16:55 replace media with media, games and software. Oct 11 18:17:39 I don't think that the drm thing is a good step to get people into programming free software for the devices. Oct 11 18:17:44 Apple, I despise you. Oct 11 18:17:46 No. Oct 11 18:18:55 Ahaha http://www.flickr.com/photos/43419012@N04/4001322448/ Oct 11 18:19:22 The conspiracy theorists will have a field day with that one. Oct 11 18:20:09 NOOOOOOOO the N900 has the usb connector on the wrong side. dealbreaker. Oct 11 18:20:31 * GeneralAntilles hits lbt. Oct 11 18:20:58 * GeneralAntilles is going to start issuing 24 bans to people who keep making me move wiki pages. Oct 11 18:21:13 javispedro, is that on talk.maemo? Oct 11 18:21:27 http://wiki.maemo.org/MoveMeGeneralAntilles Oct 11 18:21:31 nope, just saw a photo >:) Oct 11 18:23:03 lol Oct 11 18:23:20 javispedro: I thought the same thing. Oct 11 18:23:58 I know, javispedro Oct 11 18:24:13 I just saw that too Oct 11 18:27:16 Stupid phone app takes way too long to switch between landscape and portrait. Oct 11 18:27:29 It goes back and forth at least 3 times as you're taking it out of your pocket so you can't even answer the call. Oct 11 18:27:48 lol Oct 11 18:27:52 and turning off landscape just makes it obnoxious to use for VoIP. <_< Oct 11 18:27:57 feature-complete with symbian then :) Oct 11 18:28:03 sigh. Oct 11 18:28:10 or should i say bug for bug compatibility Oct 11 18:31:18 does it freeze in the middle of a call? Oct 11 18:36:57 sheepbat, huh? Oct 11 18:37:26 my E62 does that on occasion Oct 11 18:37:59 which means that, yes, my winmo phone is *more* stable than my symbian phone Oct 11 18:38:12 good god, that sounds sad Oct 11 18:38:25 all this talk about speeddialing and what not on tmo... doesn't anyone else have the issue with phones that it's too easy to call people accidentally Oct 11 18:38:48 rarely nowadays Oct 11 18:38:57 * ShadowJK 'd need a "you're about to make a call, are you sure or did you just press the weong button?" Oct 11 18:39:12 especially with shortcuts everywhere that start a call Oct 11 18:39:18 i'm pretty good about it Oct 11 18:39:36 I turn off the display before sticking the phone into my pocket, and that works pretty well Oct 11 18:39:57 no I mean when using it Oct 11 18:40:07 ah.. different thing Oct 11 18:40:28 not keylock-fail type accidents Oct 11 18:41:57 hmm.. yeah, I don't have that problem either.. Oct 11 18:42:09 I rarely call people anyway Oct 11 18:42:58 I rarely call people Oct 11 18:43:26 ouch, maemo-optify not on chinook extras. Oct 11 18:43:42 but like, the other day I was sending an sms aon my e75 and accidentally started a call instead Oct 11 18:43:56 damn make call shortcut where I expected send message... Oct 11 18:44:22 oh.. I know one particularly annoying thing... Oct 11 18:44:44 in google maps Oct 11 18:44:44 search for a business Oct 11 18:44:44 and the first thing you can do with the result is *call* them Oct 11 18:44:56 I've been very cautious and managed to avoid it Oct 11 18:45:04 but I could see that getting really annoying Oct 11 18:45:14 yeah Oct 11 18:53:39 anyone still around the ibis and still need dinner? Oct 11 19:32:53 ha! eat my socks proxy over ssh over http proxy, silly hotel wifi firewall Oct 11 19:33:21 tsocks + ssh + proxytunnel + apache + mod_proxy_connect = win Oct 11 19:42:34 heh Oct 11 19:44:36 does anyone know if screen rotation is possible with the latest n810 firmaware? Oct 11 19:46:19 officially? no. Oct 11 19:46:30 erm, officially/out of the box Oct 11 19:46:34 http://outpo.st/rotate/ Oct 11 19:47:09 GeneralAntilles, what's the 48MHz patch do? Oct 11 19:47:26 Ups the bus speed on the MMC buses. Oct 11 19:47:41 But TI hasn't certified it to operate above 12MHz Oct 11 19:47:54 ah Oct 11 19:47:57 Because there are stability issues with certain cards. Oct 11 19:48:06 For most people you'll see a marginal speed boost. Oct 11 19:48:13 For some, it could cook your card. Oct 11 19:48:37 Though the usual failure symptom is simple not being able to see the card until you reduce the bus speed. Oct 11 19:52:21 advanced backlight does some rotation if you install a few helper packages Oct 11 19:52:41 mgedmin: we tried the same thing yesterday but failed Oct 11 19:52:47 blog post coming Oct 11 19:52:53 what port was your http proxy on Oct 11 19:53:05 rm_you, you find anybody to figure out xmodmap? Oct 11 19:53:20 no :/ Oct 11 19:53:41 i think that really may be the wrong way to do it tho Oct 11 19:53:56 should really be app specific support :/ Oct 11 19:54:14 My explorations have been complete and utter fail so far. Oct 11 19:54:24 With xmodmap or directly modifying the symbols files. Oct 11 19:54:28 I think Nokia is doing something dirty. Oct 11 19:54:38 rm_you, what should be app-specific? Oct 11 19:54:48 rm_you, making ctrl-right arrow send tab? :P Oct 11 19:54:49 i can see rotating the screen with ABL and then having apps that are rotation sensitive try to figurem it out Oct 11 19:54:54 being bad Oct 11 19:55:03 oh Oct 11 19:55:05 sorry Oct 11 19:55:10 i read xrandr Oct 11 19:55:18 Yeah, rotation should be accelerometer based per-app. Oct 11 19:55:27 was already thinking about trotation :P Oct 11 19:55:35 Somebody needed to figure out xmodmap while we had the Nokians there. <_< Oct 11 19:55:52 :/ Oct 11 19:55:55 It'll be really easy to get all of the missing characters if we can get shift-fn working. Oct 11 19:56:04 welli i'm at dinner with timeless... Oct 11 19:56:06 lol Oct 11 19:56:19 Ask him why they broke spacebar scrolling. <_< Oct 11 19:56:31 ? Oct 11 19:56:34 in what Oct 11 19:56:37 MicroB Oct 11 19:56:47 It scrolls about 1.2x the total page width. Oct 11 19:56:57 It's like the reverse of keeping lines when paging. <_< Oct 11 19:57:03 he isnt sure Oct 11 19:57:07 Ask him why you can't use the fucking arrow keys with the address bar. That shit drives me crazy Oct 11 19:57:15 lol Oct 11 19:57:41 qwerty12_N810! Oct 11 19:57:53 It's like Nokia put a keyboard on here and then removed half of its functionality. Oct 11 19:57:58 * GeneralAntilles throws Camels at lbt. Oct 11 19:58:00 Yep Oct 11 19:58:13 For some reason ctrl-n opens a new window in the browser Oct 11 19:58:19 BUT THERE'S NO WAY TO CLOSE IT WITH THE KEYBOARD Oct 11 19:58:29 lol Oct 11 19:58:31 hey GeneralAntilles :) Oct 11 19:58:49 heh Oct 11 19:58:52 lbt, like I told Quim, I'm going to start docking karma points for CamelCased wiki articles. :P Oct 11 19:58:54 where are you lbt Oct 11 19:59:07 oh, I missed the space Oct 11 19:59:13 just got home Oct 11 19:59:32 well, got home a while back Oct 11 20:00:24 am I on planet maemo yet? Oct 11 20:01:01 mmm... yep Oct 11 20:01:06 general: he says to take screenshots before and after a scroll Oct 11 20:01:23 ctrl-shift-p for screenshot Oct 11 20:01:29 how come some articles get 1 line of intro, others get a few paragraphs Oct 11 20:02:20 lbt, there's a hard cut-off at 1000 words. Oct 11 20:02:24 * mgedmin blogs about ssh and http proxies Oct 11 20:02:29 lbt, and the snipping script isn't totally intelligent. Oct 11 20:02:31 Patches welcome. Oct 11 20:02:43 GeneralAntilles: hmm, it did one line : Oct 11 20:02:47 :( Oct 11 20:03:04 oh crap, add DNAT into that mix and I can't use ssh over socks over ssh over http to ssh into the same host as the host doing the http proxying since the internal and external ip addresses are different from the remote lan perspective Oct 11 20:03:15 makes it less likely to be read - and it is an important subject Oct 11 20:03:17 a cookie to anybody who can figure out what I said Oct 11 20:03:28 mgedmin: you can't do that Oct 11 20:03:47 lbt, like I said, patches welcome. ;) Oct 11 20:03:56 Talk to X-Fade if you need details. Oct 11 20:04:02 show me the git repo Oct 11 20:04:23 * lbt looks at his handwritten iptables knock/ssh rules Oct 11 20:05:12 mgedmin: does it matter? the addresses requested are requested at the proxy level Oct 11 20:05:36 it matters, because when I use the external IP, I'm connecting to the router Oct 11 20:05:51 the router can DNAT my connection from the outside in, but it cannot DNAT it from the inside back in Oct 11 20:06:56 rm_you, they're on my photostream. :D Oct 11 20:06:59 mgedmin: I mean if you connect to bar, with foo as the router, and then connect to 10.0.0.48 through bar, not 'bar' Oct 11 20:07:05 and this means I can't push my blog entry over ssh... Oct 11 20:07:08 mgedmin: if that makes sense. Oct 11 20:07:22 http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4002384820/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4001623335/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4002387054/ Oct 11 20:07:33 mgedmin: or a hosts entry for bar's internal address Oct 11 20:07:37 it's "svn commit" that does the "connect to the.external.hostname" bit, I can hardly tell it to use the internal address Oct 11 20:07:45 unless I svn switch --relocate, which would be a pain Oct 11 20:07:56 a temporary hosts entry would be interesting Oct 11 20:07:57 mgedmin: hosts? Oct 11 20:07:58 thank! Oct 11 20:08:04 :) Oct 11 20:08:29 I wish tsocks would redirect DNS queries to the proxy side... Oct 11 20:08:35 rm_you, 2 spacebar presses. Oct 11 20:09:10 * GeneralAntilles loves Flickr sharing. Oct 11 20:09:24 me too. Oct 11 20:09:43 The tag cloud is going to get a bit . . . crowded soon, though. Oct 11 20:10:00 yay it worked! Oct 11 20:10:16 im still at the subject of my last pic. Oct 11 20:10:23 :) Oct 11 20:10:53 lbt, perpetrate. ;) Oct 11 20:11:16 shame this doesn't help me ssh into my n900; the wifi ap here doesn't allow client-to-client communication at all afaics Oct 11 20:12:05 garbeam: he said some stuff about ctrl-w being dangerous because theres no umdo action for accidentally hitting it, while ctrl-n doesnt risk data loss Oct 11 20:12:38 mgedmin: adhoc? bluetooth pan? usb nat? Oct 11 20:12:54 adhoc = fail on my laptop side (iwl3945) Oct 11 20:13:08 pan = massive usability fail, tried, gave up screaming in frustration Oct 11 20:13:15 usb?? cables are for hobos Oct 11 20:13:17 rm_you, hopefully we can patch it. <_< Oct 11 20:13:36 btw the pan thing was with my n810, not the n900 Oct 11 20:13:51 user-friendly pan would rock Oct 11 20:14:41 a n900 pretending to be a wifi ap (with dhcp and 3g connection sharing) would rock even more Oct 11 20:15:02 I wonder if the hardware is capable of that Oct 11 20:15:02 mgedmin: they are selling those in the UK Oct 11 20:15:08 then I wonder if the driver is capable of that Oct 11 20:15:19 http://www.three.co.uk/Mobile_Broadband/MiFi Oct 11 20:16:04 http://maemo.nokia.com/images/app-screens/cache/amazon-screens-500x300.jpg Oct 11 20:16:08 eeeew Oct 11 20:16:25 Why eww? Oct 11 20:16:40 SpeedEvil: it's completely tasteless :D Oct 11 20:16:48 SpeedEvil: I mean completely :) Oct 11 20:16:53 oh - right - missed the context Oct 11 20:16:54 mgedmin, I'd sleep with one eye open tonight. Jaffa's probably out to get you: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sjgadsby/4002367396/ :P Oct 11 20:17:02 wazd, agreed. Oct 11 20:17:03 GeneralAntilles: fixed ... can I have a +thumb now Oct 11 20:17:09 Unless you're an http://Amazon.com exec. Oct 11 20:17:18 lbt, not done reading. :P Oct 11 20:17:28 Oct 11 20:17:35 jaffa already left the country, I believe Oct 11 20:17:44 I should be safe until next summit Oct 11 20:17:46 That's what you think. Oct 11 20:17:58 I wish flickr wouldn't stall so I could see why I'm supposed to worry Oct 11 20:18:05 GAN900: the only thing worse is Fring for Maemo Oct 11 20:18:06 lol Oct 11 20:18:15 Ugh, Fring. Oct 11 20:18:16 kindle could be more open Oct 11 20:18:17 lots Oct 11 20:18:42 I still have nightmares about them adding the SDK repo to the device with a .install for a piece of software ONLY NEWBIES EVER USE. Oct 11 20:19:10 mgedmin, this may help: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2583/4002367396_ec2d13d01c.jpg Oct 11 20:19:39 oh dear, is that my evil twin? Oct 11 20:20:16 * qwerty12_N810 can't decide who's the scary one Oct 11 20:20:29 OK, fine, lbt, you get a heart. Oct 11 20:20:32 :P Oct 11 20:20:36 did i miss something? :P Oct 11 20:20:51 heh Oct 11 20:20:57 rm_you, yes, be a good sock puppet and heart lbt's post here: http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ Oct 11 20:20:57 security talk? Oct 11 20:21:10 wtf geotags have the same silly presets every time? Oct 11 20:22:20 yeah i added amsterdam but next time it was gone Oct 11 20:22:51 I like this presentation: http://www.joaquimrocha.com/2009/10/11/adapting-gnome-applications-to-maemo-fremantle-slides/ Oct 11 20:22:58 adding tags for multiple images one by one is not fun Oct 11 20:23:58 tag an image and try to swipe to the next one Oct 11 20:24:08 in the middle of your swipe the old image reloads and you end up looking at the same thing Oct 11 20:24:15 with confusing and bewildering visual effects Oct 11 20:25:37 * GeneralAntilles wants the new firmware so he can file some damn bugs. Oct 11 20:25:51 duh, there's a tag multiple images option in the menu if I go back to the list Oct 11 20:26:10 mgedmin, ah, good to know. Oct 11 20:26:54 crap, the virtual kb takes too long to show up Oct 11 20:27:09 what I do is this: tap an input field, wait 1 second, decide the vkb is not going to appear, slide open the device Oct 11 20:27:21 as soon as I do that the vkb pops up Oct 11 20:27:27 I try hitting vkb keys, since it did appear Oct 11 20:27:27 To anybody that now has a device, find yourself a decent pair of headphones and list to the application launch sound with them. Oct 11 20:27:31 but within 1 second it goes away again Oct 11 20:27:47 Nokia creates a new set of virtual input bugs everytime they hit a major release. Oct 11 20:28:49 GeneralAntilles: what's special about that sound? Oct 11 20:29:21 mgedmin, it sounds exactly like somebody is going "schwit" into a microphone. Oct 11 20:29:35 With cans, it sounds like a Nokian is standing over your shoulder and doing the system effects live. Oct 11 20:29:40 Cracks me up everytime I hear it. Oct 11 20:29:59 * Tadthebuilder hates drm Oct 11 20:30:52 sharing via service: click options, don't change anything, click done Oct 11 20:30:52 nothing happens Oct 11 20:30:52 for a second or two Oct 11 20:30:56 which is when I start clicking done again Oct 11 20:31:06 right at that moment the dialog closes and I end up clicking share Oct 11 20:31:33 Yeah, that's obnoxious. Oct 11 20:31:56 Seems like there are missing "Just hang on, I'm doing something" indicators in a lot of places. Oct 11 20:31:58 and since I go through the dialog in the normal order (top-down, left-right), it means I update title, description, tags, then click options, and end up sharing on the WRONG ACCOUNT Oct 11 20:36:28 * Tadthebuilder will never buy an audible audio book again Oct 11 20:38:54 what do they do? use a speech synthesizer? Oct 11 20:39:03 stuff it full of ads? Oct 11 20:39:06 put drm in? Oct 11 20:39:39 drm Oct 11 20:39:47 i did not think that it wou,ld Oct 11 20:39:50 cause its through amazon Oct 11 20:39:54 and amazon's music is drmless Oct 11 20:39:58 but its drmed Oct 11 20:40:02 DRM really needs to die. Oct 11 20:40:03 and Im having trouble locating a free program Oct 11 20:40:07 to remove it Oct 11 20:40:12 (tons of expensive ones) Oct 11 20:40:21 it looks like Im going to have to take a cd drive out of a different computer Oct 11 20:40:28 burn it to cd (which it will let you do) Oct 11 20:40:31 and then rip it Oct 11 20:40:36 but I lose some quality with that Oct 11 20:40:43 you can put it on some mp3 player Oct 11 20:40:44 hmm Oct 11 20:40:45 s Oct 11 20:40:49 my n800 is not one of them Oct 11 20:40:51 of course Oct 11 20:41:00 any virtualization solutions support virtual cd burning (into image files)? Oct 11 20:41:11 that should be possible Oct 11 20:41:11 as well Oct 11 20:41:13 but Oct 11 20:41:17 Im having trouble doing that in windows Oct 11 20:41:18 damn kirby's dream course, battery out in hole 8 :( Oct 11 20:41:29 javispedro: Awesome game. Oct 11 20:41:36 I can do it linux without a problem Oct 11 20:41:39 Agreed Oct 11 20:41:42 that is an awesome game Oct 11 20:41:43 what was that windows virtual cd drive thingy, and does it support "burning"? Oct 11 20:41:49 daemon tools or something Oct 11 20:41:49 javispedro: What's new in today's SNES update? Oct 11 20:42:04 Yes, Daemon tools. Oct 11 20:42:21 well I have daemon tools light, but it does not support burning Oct 11 20:42:21 atleast as far as I can tell Oct 11 20:42:21 like I said Oct 11 20:42:21 I dont use windows much Oct 11 20:42:21 so... Oct 11 20:42:21 zerojay: minor things with onscreen buttons. Addison kept bugging me about them ;) Oct 11 20:42:21 * mgedmin plugged in the charger and was scared by the sound effect from outer space Oct 11 20:42:30 ah, and optified on maemo. Oct 11 20:42:34 s/maemo/fremantle. Oct 11 20:42:35 * mgedmin was using the silent profile since the very beginning, out of consideration for the summit participants Oct 11 20:42:42 I think Alcohol 120% supports both. Oct 11 20:42:53 only missing for extras-testing is an onscreen exit button now. Oct 11 20:42:53 let me see what that will cost me... Oct 11 20:43:42 swee Oct 11 20:43:44 t Oct 11 20:43:47 looks like a fifteen day trial Oct 11 20:43:53 unlimited uses though Oct 11 20:44:13 by that I mean it looks like it is not a limited trial other than the time period Oct 11 20:44:23 ioquake3 is available, but missing a dependency still. :/ Oct 11 20:44:33 * GeneralAntilles considers trying again to get Quake 3 running. . . . Oct 11 20:44:39 zerojay, it's in Nokia Binaries. Oct 11 20:44:42 why does planet.maemo.org have to do javascripty-uploads? if it wants to track hits, why can't it do http redirects? Oct 11 20:44:42 zerojay: grab it from nokia-binaries Oct 11 20:44:45 But I'm way too lazy to try to extricate it. Oct 11 20:44:53 it's how I got it working on this N900 Oct 11 20:45:01 nokia-binaries to device? O.o Oct 11 20:45:24 zerojay, I saw with my own eyes someone install ioquake3 from extras-devel Oct 11 20:45:28 the dependencies have been fixed Oct 11 20:45:36 apparently Oct 11 20:45:43 still, no data files -> no fun Oct 11 20:46:04 Those I've got. Oct 11 20:46:10 Demo files should be usable, right? Oct 11 20:46:13 Only about 50MB Oct 11 20:46:25 yep Oct 11 20:46:46 mgedmin: Well, it's not there... so... Oct 11 20:47:50 hm Oct 11 20:47:59 maybe he had bounce installed and you don't Oct 11 20:48:05 mgedmin: you were at the Summit, is quake 3 meant to move forward automatically Oct 11 20:48:17 I haven't seen quake 3 on a nxxx Oct 11 20:48:21 I have bounce installed. Oct 11 20:48:28 s/nxxx/nit/ Oct 11 20:48:29 mgedmin meant: I haven't seen quake 3 on a nit Oct 11 20:48:34 mgedmin: bounce installed/not-installed isn't relevant Oct 11 20:48:35 ah Oct 11 20:48:51 I thought maybe some other app had pulled that dependency from the nokia repo Oct 11 20:48:53 Ah, no wonder. Oct 11 20:49:01 okay, actually I've no idea why I thought that Oct 11 20:49:03 opengles-sgx-img-common is missing. Oct 11 20:49:06 in retrospect, it makes no sense Oct 11 20:50:12 It's fun to play, but the way it moves forward and aims for you automatically is weird Oct 11 20:53:50 why cant we get a market person from nokia to this channel to tell us when the first n900 will ship Oct 11 20:54:05 whoever maintains n900wallpapers.com could remove my broken wallpaper submission. obviously at least grayscale+alpha png wasn't very well accepted by the site... Oct 11 20:54:48 Ceron^: I bet they don't know themselves Oct 11 20:55:00 Ugh, they need newer versions? Oct 11 20:55:01 "when the critical firmware bugs are fixed" Oct 11 20:55:01 is the n900 really that unfinnished Oct 11 20:55:03 kirma: I believe he's not here, but at least on tmo. Oct 11 20:55:03 Ceron^: They are all busy wrapping. Oct 11 20:55:11 there are some rough corners Oct 11 20:55:22 e.g. bluetooth file transfers are kinda totally broken Oct 11 20:55:39 javispedro: "tmo" ? Oct 11 20:55:42 browser's addon user interface is horrible Oct 11 20:55:46 talk.maemo.org Oct 11 20:56:16 I should probably finally create an user account there... if I don't have some ancient one already :) Oct 11 20:56:36 it doesn't speak openid? Oct 11 20:58:45 Ceron^: It's done when it's done. It's for these reasons Nokia doesn't give out release dates. Oct 11 20:59:18 mgedmin: Bluetooth transfer worked fine for me. And I'm on older firmware. It was just somewhat slow. Oct 11 20:59:37 mgedmin: And the addon user interface is Firefox's and hasn't been finished yet. Oct 11 20:59:53 zerojay: bluetooth OPP into a n900 fails with big files Oct 11 21:00:01 How big? Oct 11 21:00:06 xchat*.deb Oct 11 21:00:17 a few hundred kb, I guess Oct 11 21:00:34 I was transfering mp3s with a coworker on a Blackberry Storm just fine. Oct 11 21:00:41 ~4MB each. Oct 11 21:00:43 from the n900 or into a n900? Oct 11 21:00:52 Onto. Oct 11 21:00:56 interesting Oct 11 21:01:10 It was just a little on the slow side. Took a few minutes for each. Oct 11 21:01:20 wow. i left my n810 in my bag like a week ago and it is just now gettng a low battery Oct 11 21:01:32 I tried bluetooth-sendto: hangs forever, no please accept on my n900 Oct 11 21:01:42 Did you pair first? Oct 11 21:01:43 I tried sending a file from my n810, got an immediate error message Oct 11 21:01:44 yes Oct 11 21:01:55 I'll try with my N900 and N810. Hang ong. Oct 11 21:01:57 -g Oct 11 21:02:23 I tried opening the file manager on my n810 and browsing the contents of the n900 via bluetooth -> fail Oct 11 21:02:29 doing the same from my laptop worked Oct 11 21:02:37 I'll try that too then. Oct 11 21:02:44 Nokia logo... waiiitt... Oct 11 21:03:01 * GAN900 so wants to file bugs. Oct 11 21:03:07 Tell me about it. Oct 11 21:03:19 All the bugs I wanted to file in the last three weeks.... Oct 11 21:03:34 So other people might be doing it instead now.. bleh. Oct 11 21:03:59 okay, trying again: bluetooth-sendto a mp4 file Oct 11 21:04:11 ooh, a popup this time Oct 11 21:04:31 ah shit. Oct 11 21:04:36 I say save, select a filename, the n900 says "receiving cancelled" Oct 11 21:04:44 * zerojay hears N810 new email ring about 500 times straight. :/ Oct 11 21:04:47 the sender doesn't notice and stays at 1% or whatever Oct 11 21:05:10 btw, which are the final games in the n900? Oct 11 21:05:14 the diablo four + bounce? Oct 11 21:05:18 Okay.... it's been ringing for 3 minutes straight. Oct 11 21:05:20 again -> the same Oct 11 21:05:25 Bounce isn't preinstalled. Oct 11 21:05:27 I declare it not working Oct 11 21:05:35 javispedro: just the diablo four Oct 11 21:05:44 a. Oct 11 21:05:46 ta. Oct 11 21:05:53 N810 feels absolutely GIANT right now. Oct 11 21:05:58 bounce is installable out of the box (the repo is preenabled) Oct 11 21:06:11 * mgedmin misses <, > and ~ on the hardware kb Oct 11 21:06:46 My new email sound was replaced with the Mario coin collect sound... Oct 11 21:06:49 to get ~ you have to hold fn, press ctrl, wait for a popup animation (grr), hit the combining ~, then press space Oct 11 21:06:54 :) Oct 11 21:06:54 so I'm expecting to hear a 1up. Oct 11 21:07:02 Several times over. Oct 11 21:07:05 Still ringing. Oct 11 21:07:38 piss Oct 11 21:07:53 and I haven't found any way to input ą Oct 11 21:08:19 I have no idea what that even is. Oct 11 21:08:33 I wonder if I could grab the "back" onscreen button image from the builtin games and be OK -- copyright wise. Oct 11 21:08:48 * zerojay *STILL* hearing the new email sound going off. Oct 11 21:09:13 javispedro: qgil said that using them was OK, but I'm not sure about redistributing it... Oct 11 21:09:19 it's a LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH OGONEK Oct 11 21:09:33 mgedmin: That sounds like a DISEASE. Oct 11 21:09:55 wait till you hear how it sounds when pronounced ;) Oct 11 21:09:56 qwerty12_N810: ah, guess I need to check where the builtin games get it from. Oct 11 21:09:58 lol Oct 11 21:10:18 (actually nothing scary, just a long aaaa) Oct 11 21:10:19 There's just... no way to stop this new e-mail ringing, is there? Oct 11 21:10:27 a hammer will suffice. Oct 11 21:10:33 Mute? ;) Oct 11 21:10:34 I think I got something like 400 e-mails since I last powered up my N810 3 weeks ago. Oct 11 21:10:45 put it into a hermetic container and suck the air out Oct 11 21:10:46 I would, but the tablet's too fucking busy to even let me do that. Oct 11 21:10:56 uh oh Oct 11 21:10:58 killall -9 modest Oct 11 21:11:06 One of my favourite commands Oct 11 21:11:14 And how am I gonna do that? :) Oct 11 21:11:19 bah, modest is the best program by far >:) Oct 11 21:11:24 hammer! hammer!! Oct 11 21:11:28 Modest is a good program. Oct 11 21:11:35 modest is nice, except when it sucks Oct 11 21:11:40 zerojay: Telepathy... failing that: SSH :p Oct 11 21:11:41 e.g. it doesn't list any imap folders on my work account Oct 11 21:11:56 I have never had problems with it since I started using it back on my N800. Still don't. Oct 11 21:12:13 actually, maybe I should make sure it's modest's problem, and not the server's... Oct 11 21:12:48 wait, I remember sylpheed showing those folders Oct 11 21:12:51 I wish RSS wasn't fucked up on the N900. :/ Oct 11 21:12:58 it's either modest or connection lag/timeout Oct 11 21:13:11 google reader (mobile version) works okay-ish Oct 11 21:13:28 Yeah, not interested in using that. Oct 11 21:13:29 two downsides: no 'like' button, icons look wrong if you set text size to 'large' Oct 11 21:13:52 I'm no longer interested in an rss reader that doesn't synchronize my "read this post" status across multiple machines Oct 11 21:14:23 Part of the reason why I planned on just using the N900 for it. Oct 11 21:14:30 But syncing is completely fucked. Oct 11 21:15:08 Update automatically only on wifi = I won't update more than once every two weeks. Oct 11 21:15:20 Even though I'm at home wifi nightly. Oct 11 21:15:49 motherfucker. Oct 11 21:16:00 I thought the new email sounds had stopped... but no. Oct 11 21:16:03 fmradio already on extras-devel :) Oct 11 21:16:07 (thank pycage) Oct 11 21:16:17 ah, but can it play radio? Oct 11 21:16:19 Couldn't get it to work for me Oct 11 21:16:37 well, I assume he has a n900 so he could ACTUALLY TEST IT? Oct 11 21:16:44 * javispedro goes to cry alone under his bridge Oct 11 21:16:44 Maybe I should've plugged in headphones and stopped the media player beforehand... Oct 11 21:17:08 * qwerty12_N810 causes the bridge to collapse Oct 11 21:17:26 * javispedro dies, gets to play kirby's dream course in god's n900 Oct 11 21:17:53 That sounds more like hell. I mean, Kirby? WTF Oct 11 21:18:21 That game is amazing. Oct 11 21:18:24 * javispedro tells god to ensure certain british southern guy goes to hell. Oct 11 21:18:47 javispedro: lcuk won't appreciate that. :/ Oct 11 21:18:54 hum. Oct 11 21:18:58 wasn't lcuk the northern? Oct 11 21:19:01 * qwerty12_N810 is a northerner Oct 11 21:19:11 ok, now this is funny :) Oct 11 21:19:11 I don't know, they're all funny talkers to me. Oct 11 21:19:17 He just happens to be in the south Oct 11 21:19:24 good afternoon :) Oct 11 21:19:34 Hi. Oct 11 21:19:59 I love how T-Mobile didn't have any backups for their Sidekick user data. lol Oct 11 21:20:15 And since everything on a sidekick is stored on T-Mobile servers... oops. Oct 11 21:20:20 hiyo jaem Oct 11 21:20:24 does Maemo have a program to show raw key events? I seem to remember using something like that on my desktop Oct 11 21:20:33 xev? Oct 11 21:20:35 xev? Oct 11 21:20:45 unless installed from the sdk repo, I guess not. Oct 11 21:20:48 * zerojay wins. Oct 11 21:20:57 the sidekick disaster is hilarious (to those who don't have one) Oct 11 21:20:57 moo Oct 11 21:21:01 oh, it is that? :S I tried it last night, but got tired and went to bed :P Oct 11 21:21:06 Stskeeps: hi Oct 11 21:21:09 * javispedro tells god to not to send anyone to hell, just in case. Oct 11 21:21:13 zerojay: you're Canadian: you lose :p Oct 11 21:21:28 A friend of mine works for T-Mobile... he used to tell me that the people there go through the server data all the time. Oct 11 21:21:34 evening all Oct 11 21:21:36 It's amazing how many people take nude pics of themselves. Oct 11 21:21:44 re Sts Oct 11 21:22:02 I tried to call him this weekend. He picked up the phone, yelled "FUCK YOU" and hung up. lol Oct 11 21:22:06 I see I've come in on a high point Oct 11 21:22:28 :) Oct 11 21:22:29 qwerty12_N900: :~( Oct 11 21:22:34 :) Oct 11 21:23:12 coding in C tends to make me hate C and like C++, but coding in C++ makes me hate C++ and like Java, but coding in Java makes me hate Java and like C. Oct 11 21:23:29 ahaha Oct 11 21:24:02 zerojay: :p. Oh, for what it is worth, I do not sound like lcuk (thank god) Oct 11 21:24:24 mgedmin: Trying to browse to my N900 via bluetooth from my n810 fails. Oct 11 21:24:55 wheew... good, my switcher key is not broken Oct 11 21:25:01 it just stopped doing anything Oct 11 21:25:03 woo Oct 11 21:25:15 javispedro: try cobol. it'll make you hate everything Oct 11 21:25:26 ccooke: including cobol? Oct 11 21:25:44 mgedmin: Sending a 681kb image from n810 to n900 worked fine. Oct 11 21:25:50 jaem_N810: *oh* yes Oct 11 21:25:59 zerojay: I detect a pattern here Oct 11 21:26:04 ccooke: tried INTERCAL? Oct 11 21:26:11 worksforyou, doesn'tworkforme Oct 11 21:26:22 I have read exactly one cobol program I liked. that was a retelling of goldilocks Oct 11 21:26:23 how can it well who is trying to connect? Oct 11 21:26:31 mgedmin: No. I couldn't browse to my N900 through file manager either, like you. Oct 11 21:26:37 ccooke: wait... what?! Oct 11 21:26:42 jaem_N810: that and a few other esoterics. lots of fun Oct 11 21:26:46 * mgedmin was referring to file sending Oct 11 21:27:04 jaem_N810: it's likely online somewhdere. google it Oct 11 21:27:24 ccooke: the best time to read the INTERCAL manual is 2am :) Oct 11 21:27:46 jaem_N810: not intercal, the cobol goldilocks Oct 11 21:27:46 so, I've been out of the loop... I take it the N900s have shipped? Oct 11 21:27:52 hmm... I don't see an easy way to send a file via bluetooth from the N900. :/ Oct 11 21:27:54 jaem_N810: No. Oct 11 21:28:28 * jaem_N810 is waiting for his uni to get theirs shipped in so he can play with it Oct 11 21:28:35 jaem_N810: lol at INTERCAL Oct 11 21:28:45 copying a 16-meg file via obex ftp into a n900 works for me (at 200 KB/sec) if I do that from my laptop (running ubuntu) Oct 11 21:28:48 http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mader/delta/deltoidslist/1998-06/msg00119.html Oct 11 21:28:48 hello Oct 11 21:29:07 if someone here has access to a N900 device Oct 11 21:29:15 I'm working with some other students at my uni on a project using the N900 and N97 Oct 11 21:29:17 mgedmin: How do you send from the N900 via bluetooth? Oct 11 21:29:25 inte_: Yeah. Oct 11 21:29:53 I would really like to know if it is possible to switch phone lines for outgoing calls (Alternate Line Service - ALS) Oct 11 21:29:56 I keep forgetting that the stand has no intermediate positions Oct 11 21:30:13 I just remembered I know somebody who calls the "ampersand" punctuation symbol "aftersun". Oct 11 21:30:26 * b-man17 s Core2 Duo laptop with 3 gigs of ram starts to lag while building dosbox.... lol Oct 11 21:30:28 most nokia devices support two phone lines, but I cannot find any info about the N900 Oct 11 21:30:45 inte_: I don't have two phone lines so... Oct 11 21:30:55 please... Oct 11 21:30:55 &thanls Oct 11 21:31:03 thanls Oct 11 21:31:03 THANKS Oct 11 21:31:03 xD Oct 11 21:31:05 thanks Oct 11 21:31:05 damed :-) Oct 11 21:31:17 b-man17: try using a dual-atom :( Oct 11 21:31:20 * qwerty12_N900 is content with one Oct 11 21:31:24 eww Oct 11 21:31:36 I don't even have one. lol Oct 11 21:31:38 two phone lines? as in dual sim cards? Oct 11 21:31:40 Just data for me, please. Oct 11 21:31:53 @mgedmin two lines Oct 11 21:31:57 what does that mean? Oct 11 21:31:59 b-man17: I'm just waiting for my dorm neighbour to get his 8-core Xeon monstrousity up and running :P Oct 11 21:32:01 mgedmin: no, ability to have two concurrent calls Oct 11 21:32:06 ah Oct 11 21:32:09 Call waiting? Oct 11 21:32:11 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_line_service Oct 11 21:32:11 is that the thing called 'call waiting'? Oct 11 21:32:12 or one and a data call Oct 11 21:32:27 zerojay: related, iirc. logic suggests it Oct 11 21:32:29 in english Oct 11 21:32:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_line_service Oct 11 21:32:30 jaem_N810: lol Oct 11 21:32:36 voice + data at once is possible with 3g, not possible with 2g (or 2.5g), afaiu Oct 11 21:32:39 no two voice lines Oct 11 21:32:43 b-man17: what distro are you running? Oct 11 21:32:48 one private one business line Oct 11 21:32:57 If you're in a call, you can still use the net... dunno if that helps or not. Oct 11 21:33:02 on N97 eg you can easily switch Oct 11 21:33:10 mgedmin: it also allows conferencing via a single phone Oct 11 21:33:25 zerojay no I have different ring tones depening on the line the call comes in Oct 11 21:33:33 jaem_N810: im on Ubuntu 8.10 atm Oct 11 21:33:39 two bills depending on the line I choose to dial out Oct 11 21:33:46 you could sort of emulate ALS with a google voice number Oct 11 21:34:05 All I know is that I have SIP and Skype... it's enough for me. :P Oct 11 21:34:08 or any sip service Oct 11 21:34:20 sigpate are good in the .uk, btw Oct 11 21:34:24 GNOME rules! Oct 11 21:34:32 (but I hear less so elsewhere) Oct 11 21:34:35 mgedmin: Ew. :) Oct 11 21:34:37 hmm... I haven't found any SIP services with rates as good as Skype's subscriptions, unfortunately Oct 11 21:34:53 skype sucks a lot; everything else sucks a lot more :( Oct 11 21:34:56 mgedmin:yep, just not nautilus... Oct 11 21:34:57 yeah Oct 11 21:35:03 I got that feeling Oct 11 21:35:21 * mgedmin actually had nautilus in mind, plus the recent 'file operations' window, whatever it is Oct 11 21:35:45 http://your.rogers.com/business/wireless/services/secondvoicelineservice.asp Oct 11 21:35:46 apparently Windows Skype in Wine works fine (or did) Oct 11 21:35:47 Nautilus is terrible. Everything on Gnome feels so disjointed to me. Oct 11 21:35:52 Can I download a complete filesystem image of a n900 yet? Oct 11 21:35:57 this is the service I'm taking about Oct 11 21:35:59 Flyser_: no Oct 11 21:36:00 Flyser_: No. Oct 11 21:36:07 is it supported by the N900? Oct 11 21:36:11 http://your.rogers.com/business/wireless/services/secondvoicelineservice.asp Oct 11 21:36:13 but I heard that one will be available soon (as in within a couple of days) Oct 11 21:36:19 I don't have the service, so I don't know. Oct 11 21:36:26 mgedmin: zerojay: when will they be released? Oct 11 21:36:28 someone (I'm bad with names and nicks, okay?) recently bricked his n900 Oct 11 21:36:34 they=the images Oct 11 21:36:35 and had it reflashed by a nokia guy at the summit Oct 11 21:36:35 Flyser_: Launch, maybe. Oct 11 21:36:38 zerojay which provider do you use? Oct 11 21:36:44 and that guy said he would put the image online when he got back home Oct 11 21:36:45 inte_: Rogers. Oct 11 21:36:52 okay :-) Oct 11 21:37:10 zerojay ah thats cool so the simcard should support the service Oct 11 21:37:22 zerojay, disjointed? Oct 11 21:37:22 Tomorrow, images will be made available to those of us that are using older firmware... those that got their N900s before Summit. Oct 11 21:37:28 if you switch to line 2 you can't of course make calls Oct 11 21:37:36 Firebird: Yes, disjointed. As in no integration. Oct 11 21:37:39 but you should be able to switch Oct 11 21:37:48 if the device supports it Oct 11 21:37:59 what kind of integration do you really need... Oct 11 21:38:10 Firebird: I hope that's a joke. Oct 11 21:38:28 Firebird: integration is nice, provided the apps are good Oct 11 21:38:29 I've never felt any need for integration with nautilus and the rest of gnome at least Oct 11 21:38:29 you could try on other (symbian) nokia phones - you can switch by holding the hashbutton if the simcard is activated for the service Oct 11 21:38:45 * mgedmin takes some of the GNOME/nautilus praise back Oct 11 21:38:47 Firebird: I'm not talking about Nautilus alone. I'm talking about Gnome as a whole. Oct 11 21:38:58 three files are stuck in the operations window at "0 seconds remaining" Oct 11 21:39:04 afaict they're copied, just not removed from the list Oct 11 21:39:10 this had happened once before, I remember Oct 11 21:39:18 I found no way of clearing the list Oct 11 21:39:22 the cancel button didn't work Oct 11 21:39:24 zerojay: true... a lot of their apps are good, but they don't all work together as nicely as, say, KDE Oct 11 21:39:26 Everything feels like it was coded by someone on the other end of the universe that doesn't care about the rest of Gnome or using other features or whatever. Oct 11 21:39:36 mgedmin: killall nautilus works for me... Oct 11 21:39:51 zerojay, I use like one program in gnome, nautilus, so I'm not really feeling the lack of integration Oct 11 21:39:58 And then the fact that they break compatibility and dump their own programs every few days... Oct 11 21:40:21 Firebird: What else do you use then? Oct 11 21:40:26 okay, different bug this time, maybe not a bug Oct 11 21:40:27 the terminal? Oct 11 21:40:30 qwerty12_N900: refresh my memory... does Nautilus also serve as the GNOME shell? Oct 11 21:40:36 as soon as all of the files were transferred, the operations window disappeared Oct 11 21:40:43 Firebird: You just use Nautilus and the terminal on your computer? Oct 11 21:40:44 that's about the only two things in gnome suite Oct 11 21:40:49 last time I think I was screwed by a network connection loss while using gvfs sftp Oct 11 21:41:03 jaem_N810: serves as desktop, but gnome-panel as panel. Oct 11 21:41:04 zerojay, don't think xchat is part of gnome as a whole Oct 11 21:41:09 or any other programs Oct 11 21:41:10 javispedro: right Oct 11 21:41:23 Firebird: Whhhhhaaa?? Oct 11 21:41:27 :S Oct 11 21:42:10 zerojay, gnome only has a few programs, everything else is just a gtk program Oct 11 21:42:41 If that's true, that explains it. Oct 11 21:42:45 GTK, GNOME, same crap Oct 11 21:43:02 luke-jr: That's how I've always looked at it. Oct 11 21:43:51 nah, to become part of GNOME you have to not suck, mostly Oct 11 21:43:56 zerojay hey you should get the second line activated its cool and it seems to be free on rogers Oct 11 21:43:57 mp4 files (320x240 H.264) on a n900 are interesting: bit laggy at the beginning, completely stopped and frozen video in the middle, play just find at the end; the audio is mostly flawless (there was one brief stuck moment) Oct 11 21:44:38 inte_: As I already said, I don't even have a first line yet, just data so.... :) Oct 11 21:44:47 zerojay and you could check if the device supports the service... :-) Oct 11 21:45:02 And how am I going to do that? You wanna pay for me to get two lines? :) Oct 11 21:45:16 zerojay no its free Oct 11 21:45:17 zerojay: sure, why not Oct 11 21:45:23 * zerojay slams his head into a wall. Oct 11 21:45:27 http://your.rogers.com/business/wireless/services/secondvoicelineservice.asp Oct 11 21:45:37 inte_, he has no phone service on his device Oct 11 21:45:41 inte_: *having* two lines may be free, but the lines themselves are not Oct 11 21:45:42 inte_: Are you listening to anything I've said? Oct 11 21:45:54 $0 Second Voice Line Oct 11 21:46:01 ups Oct 11 21:46:02 he has no first line to begin with Oct 11 21:46:03 :-) Oct 11 21:46:04 sorry Oct 11 21:46:06 FOR ME TO HAVE A SECOND VOICE LINE I MUST HAVE A *FIRST* ONE. Oct 11 21:46:12 inte_: yes, but you still have to pay for the minutes, anyway Oct 11 21:46:12 win! Oct 11 21:46:15 hehe i see Oct 11 21:46:19 * zerojay hulks out. Oct 11 21:46:34 jaem I use mine mostly for incomming calls Oct 11 21:46:36 * javispedro hides from the gamma rays Oct 11 21:46:51 to distingish between business and private calls Oct 11 21:46:53 * jaem_N810 basks in the gamma rays Oct 11 21:47:04 inte_: ah, okay Oct 11 21:47:06 or send first line calls directly to the mailbox Oct 11 21:47:09 http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackarus/4001102936/ Oct 11 21:47:26 locking your cpu at 600 mhz will fry the device Oct 11 21:47:31 what does "locking" mean? Oct 11 21:47:43 installing a custom app that sets the cpufreq policy? Oct 11 21:47:58 or is it sufficient to do a while(1); loop long enough? Oct 11 21:48:01 yes Oct 11 21:48:02 option B is scary Oct 11 21:48:11 If you have the governor set to allow 600MHz Oct 11 21:48:17 It's not at the moment as I understand it Oct 11 21:48:31 locking it at 550 mhz will do likewise, afaiu Oct 11 21:48:52 so out of the box it's limited to 500 mhz? Oct 11 21:48:57 or does it do short bursts into higher speed? Oct 11 21:48:58 seems so. Oct 11 21:49:33 limited to 550Mhz at least, and maybe some changes to ondemand policy. Oct 11 21:49:49 It can apparantly be set higher for some apps Oct 11 21:49:53 bu thtat's not very clear Oct 11 21:50:08 so no performance mode? Oct 11 21:50:43 anyone ever get gnome working on maemo? Oct 11 21:50:50 or an alternative distro Oct 11 21:51:02 (not hildon) Oct 11 21:51:10 there's debian with xfce Oct 11 21:51:27 hrm Oct 11 21:51:37 nothing with gnome though? Oct 11 21:51:53 debian? apt-get gnome? Oct 11 21:52:09 tried that Oct 11 21:52:12 breaks a lot of thing Oct 11 21:52:13 hm Oct 11 21:52:13 s Oct 11 21:52:14 lol Oct 11 21:52:44 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=24272 Oct 11 21:52:50 im downloading this atm Oct 11 21:53:10 i'll try apt-get gnome on that i guess Oct 11 21:53:28 well there's a debian which you can boot from SD Oct 11 21:53:47 which seems to be lost (can't locate a recent page anywhere) Oct 11 21:53:47 Hi. Is it possible to install the newer fremantle/n900 version of adobe-flashplayer on a n800/n810? Or is that a dumb idea? :) Oct 11 21:54:06 deblet? Oct 11 21:54:15 dtrack, yea Oct 11 21:54:20 the homepage gives a 404 Oct 11 21:54:23 yeah Oct 11 21:54:30 thats basically mer now Oct 11 21:54:46 ah, right Oct 11 21:54:50 http://b-man.xceleo.org/v2/ Oct 11 21:55:02 ive been trying to get ubuntu to work Oct 11 21:55:05 with no success D: Oct 11 22:03:00 ugh Oct 11 22:04:12 i dont know if this is the right place to ask, but ive got an existing tmobile plan / SIM card. does mameo have a configuration setting on a n900 to run as a phone but direct IP traffic over wifi only? Oct 11 22:05:25 data plan on a prepaid is kinda brutal Oct 11 22:06:03 no idea, but if its linux must have a way of configuring net interfaces, ifconfig ... ? Oct 11 22:06:50 could you ring up tmobile and ask to turn data off, like you can do when you do roaming ? Oct 11 22:07:26 actually, im not even sure i get a data plan Oct 11 22:08:23 ugh Oct 11 22:08:28 have to seriously get my web server going again Oct 11 22:08:32 finally have a chance to work on it Oct 11 22:08:34 ringing tmobile up cant do any harm, to find out if you can block stuff Oct 11 22:11:13 pwnguin: http://my-symbian.com/other/show2.php?pic=scr46.jpg Oct 11 22:11:26 from http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php?page=2 Oct 11 22:12:02 then it will use data traffic over cellular if and only if you explicitly connect that way Oct 11 22:12:41 heh. voip Oct 11 22:13:31 same user interface for making skype calls as for making cellular calls Oct 11 22:13:49 there's this little dropdown control where you can switch call type Oct 11 22:13:52 neat, I think Oct 11 22:14:03 * mgedmin really needs to go pack Oct 11 22:14:36 marius gedminas... i recognize that name Oct 11 22:15:20 i think. Oct 11 22:17:02 no, im thinking of marius neldor Oct 11 22:34:50 hey, anyone here? Oct 11 22:36:23 hi Oct 11 22:37:19 ok Oct 11 22:38:55 so Ihave a question, if anyone can help Oct 11 22:39:50 I'm trying to install the install-toolkit.deb onto my n800 in order to set it up to boot from my sdcard Oct 11 22:40:06 but it's not letting me install it Oct 11 22:40:16 I keep getting an installation error Oct 11 22:42:51 hey Oct 11 23:20:22 the summit is over right? Oct 11 23:25:25 Yes Oct 11 23:25:48 thanks Oct 11 23:25:59 oh while your in here, Oct 11 23:26:10 I have a quick question that you might be able to answer Oct 11 23:26:14 its kinda off topic... Oct 11 23:26:31 #maemo frequently is. ;) Oct 11 23:26:36 but would it be possible to playing some (lets say an audible book) and have Oct 11 23:26:41 audacity record it? Oct 11 23:26:44 as an mp3 Oct 11 23:26:47 without a microphone Oct 11 23:26:53 just using the internal soundcard Oct 11 23:27:00 You're still going to lose quality. Oct 11 23:27:05 I mean, you can do that. Oct 11 23:27:17 But burning it to a CD is probably simpler. Oct 11 23:27:29 other than the fact that I have to find a cd rom drive... Oct 11 23:27:33 dont use those much any more Oct 11 23:27:36 though Oct 11 23:27:36 so to get rid of drm? Oct 11 23:27:39 yes Oct 11 23:28:23 would i lose more quality than if I burned to cd and ripped to mp3? Oct 11 23:28:30 thats a pretty significant loss I have heard Oct 11 23:29:23 No, you wouldn't lose more. Oct 11 23:29:23 off for the night Oct 11 23:29:27 Just increase the encoding quality. Oct 11 23:29:31 laterz Oct 11 23:29:34 bye Oct 11 23:29:35 Or use a lossless codec. Oct 11 23:29:42 ah okay Oct 11 23:29:52 the only problem is i have to boot into my buggy windows partition... Oct 11 23:30:00 Not ideal, but that's what you get for licensing content. :P Oct 11 23:30:01 have not been keeping up with it...so its got tuns of spyware Oct 11 23:30:02 ahha Oct 11 23:30:07 well Oct 11 23:30:13 I just forgot to read the fine print Oct 11 23:30:18 Hehe Oct 11 23:30:21 I thought it would be like amazons music mp3 Oct 11 23:30:27 which have a linux downloader Oct 11 23:30:30 and are drmless Oct 11 23:31:07 thats what I get for letting people use my computer in windows.... Oct 11 23:31:25 I wonder how many of these companies realize there are hordes of people waiting in the wings with money burning a hole in their pocket just to pay for content that isn't encumbered. <_< Oct 11 23:31:36 I donno but I would love it Oct 11 23:31:39 Itunes finally learned Oct 11 23:31:45 still dont buy music from them Oct 11 23:31:48 cause I hate itunes Oct 11 23:31:54 (the program) Oct 11 23:32:14 I dont understand what the drm is really accomplishing Oct 11 23:32:30 other than keeping law abiding citizens from listening to what they purchased on the device of their choosing Oct 11 23:32:33 It makes the dinosaurs that run the content industry feel better. Oct 11 23:32:40 They're kind of like gun laws. ;) Oct 11 23:32:44 haha Oct 11 23:32:46 true Oct 11 23:33:00 it just does not stop people from pirating it Oct 11 23:33:11 I could go on isohunt.com and download Oct 11 23:33:18 the same book I bought Oct 11 23:33:33 if anything it makes me want to pirate Oct 11 23:33:35 I've been using iTunes since it was SoundJam MP. ;) Oct 11 23:33:38 not that im going too Oct 11 23:33:49 I use mediamonkey in windows Oct 11 23:34:03 and aamorok and rythmbox in linux Oct 11 23:34:07 I used to use foobar Oct 11 23:34:10 and sometiems Oct 11 23:34:14 when im surfing the net I use xmms Oct 11 23:34:44 * Tadthebuilder would like an n900 Oct 11 23:34:54 can you write in your will that I get yours if you die? Oct 11 23:35:18 assuming you get the community discount Oct 11 23:35:20 and get one Oct 11 23:35:51 I don't own one. :P Oct 11 23:35:59 anyway Oct 11 23:36:03 im botting into windows... Oct 11 23:36:12 wish me luck on my conversion and drm removal Oct 11 23:36:18 booting* Oct 11 23:36:19 In fact, I don't think anybody on the planet actually owns one at this pint. Oct 11 23:36:28 what aobut lcuk? Oct 11 23:36:34 is it still nokias Oct 11 23:36:40 Think so. Oct 11 23:36:44 ah Oct 11 23:36:46 okay Oct 11 23:36:48 well if you get one Oct 11 23:36:50 willi t to me Oct 11 23:36:53 so if you die ill get one Oct 11 23:36:56 lcuk's special, though Oct 11 23:37:05 he is Oct 11 23:37:07 You know, short bus. . . . Oct 11 23:37:07 tis true Oct 11 23:37:13 i dont know about that Oct 11 23:37:18 lol Oct 11 23:37:20 liqbase Oct 11 23:37:22 is awesome Oct 11 23:37:24 I use it all the time Oct 11 23:37:39 anyway Oct 11 23:37:41 bye Oct 11 23:37:46 have a nice day/night Oct 11 23:38:00 (we love you Gary! :P) Oct 11 23:38:01 bye Oct 12 00:24:08 blah Oct 12 00:36:17 lol. goddamn andromeda turned into star wars Oct 12 00:36:47 "let your feelings guide you" Oct 12 01:23:16 * b-man17 leaves to celebrate his b-day Oct 12 01:31:00 heh, from amazon's listing of n900: "Full messaging capabilities including SMS, MMS, mobile instant messaging (with presence-enhanced contacts), personal and corporate email (with support for Exchange and viewing attachments)." Oct 12 01:31:09 anyone tried that? Oct 12 01:46:53 :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 12 02:59:56 2009