**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 15 02:59:56 2009 Oct 15 02:59:57 i just know about lots of quirks :) Oct 15 03:05:20 * timeless_mbp kicks a maemo user Oct 15 03:06:24 oh right Oct 15 03:06:29 i was going to hack ham to stop being stupid Oct 15 03:10:30 That's impossible. :P Oct 15 03:11:54 timeless_mbp, i have compiled using w/ -g but no result, Now how could i get -dbg packages that yoy mentioned earlier Oct 15 03:12:10 *you Oct 15 03:12:14 http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/chinook/maemo-debug-scripts/ Oct 15 03:12:27 you want debug-dep-install Oct 15 03:12:45 are you using maemo-invoker/maemo-summer/maemo-launcher? Oct 15 03:12:53 did you try running from gdb? Oct 15 03:13:02 Er, yeah, so that's what that avatar is. Oct 15 03:13:03 * timeless_mbp hopes samad isn't using "strip" Oct 15 03:13:11 GeneralAntilles: ?? Oct 15 03:13:24 timeless_mbp, Talk, you don't want to know. ;) Oct 15 03:13:24 maemo-launcher Oct 15 03:14:15 timeless_mbp, i am not using dbg Oct 15 03:14:16 samad: also, pastebin ;) Oct 15 03:14:26 don't flood the channel. Oct 15 03:14:37 'not using dbg'?? Oct 15 03:17:59 ok.... so, in theory a bunch of you have devices Oct 15 03:18:06 anyone awake now w/ complaints about strings? Oct 15 03:18:09 you have 5mins Oct 15 03:18:21 I have a complaint. Oct 15 03:18:31 I can't file bugs with real strings now. :P Oct 15 03:18:45 there's a script that lets you switch :) Oct 15 03:19:14 sudo /usr/sbin/translations-enus1 uninstall Oct 15 03:19:19 when you want to go back: Oct 15 03:19:28 Ah, but is there a reinstall script? Oct 15 03:19:29 sudo /usr/sbin/translations-enus1 install Oct 15 03:19:32 actually Oct 15 03:19:38 you aren't supposed to do that Oct 15 03:19:38 timeless_mbp: 5 mins won't be enough if you want input from me. Oct 15 03:19:42 you're supposed to do: Oct 15 03:19:55 /usr/bin/pick-locale-enus.sh Oct 15 03:20:05 it should let you pick which strings you want and then call sudo for you Oct 15 03:20:11 but i forgot about that :) Oct 15 03:21:01 Could the postinst move the Nokia strings to an en_FAIL or something so I can change in the interface? Oct 15 03:21:04 GeneralAntilles: atm the pick script doesn't detect whether you have system or my scripts installed Oct 15 03:21:22 i need qwerty or someone to write a tiny launcher Oct 15 03:21:28 there's already a .desktop file for it Oct 15 03:21:50 we could probably fix the .desktop file to go into the main menu instead of control panel Oct 15 03:22:11 i just don't know how .desktop files work, and would prefer for it to live in control panel (at least eventually) Oct 15 03:30:40 oh right Oct 15 03:30:48 someone want to explain to me how .desktop files work? :) Oct 15 03:30:59 suppose i want a desktop file to run a .sh script, what do i need to do? :) Oct 15 03:32:01 GeneralAntilles: en_FAIL... lol Oct 15 03:37:23 * timeless_mbp cries Oct 15 03:37:25 yeah um Oct 15 03:37:37 could someone please walk me through writing a .desktop file? :( Oct 15 03:38:15 Copy an existing one? Oct 15 03:38:17 and for what? Oct 15 03:38:33 to run /usr/bin/pick-locale-enus.sh Oct 15 03:38:45 We asked for a .desktop documentation about 2 years ago. Oct 15 03:39:02 Dave dumped all of 2 paragraphs in the wiki about 8 months ago. Oct 15 03:39:15 dave? Oct 15 03:39:24 http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format Oct 15 03:39:26 is what i found Oct 15 03:39:49 dneary Oct 15 03:39:56 where is his thing? Oct 15 03:40:00 Isn't .desktop a FreeDesktop standard? Oct 15 03:40:05 You found it. Oct 15 03:40:10 hey folks Oct 15 03:40:18 Yeah, but there are lots of Maemo-isms. Oct 15 03:40:24 can someone with an N900 answer a question for me? Oct 15 03:40:26 o Oct 15 03:40:44 well, i don't have any n900s Oct 15 03:40:49 i have rx51s :) Oct 15 03:40:58 timeless_mbp, fair enough ;) Oct 15 03:41:00 as people who were at summit can vouch :) Oct 15 03:41:05 (mine don't say 'n900') Oct 15 03:41:11 O.o Oct 15 03:41:29 ...just wondering if the Bluetooth SPP profile is supported out of the box on Fremantle (not necessarily in the GUI) Oct 15 03:41:46 timeless_mbp: NXX ftw! Oct 15 03:41:47 timeless, total blanks or something else Oct 15 03:41:47 or if it can be made to work with a minimum of pain Oct 15 03:42:04 no, mine is just unlabeled Oct 15 03:42:21 * lcuk nods Oct 15 03:42:36 timeless_mbp: on the front casing you mean or...? Oct 15 03:42:40 yep Oct 15 03:42:46 Yeah, same here. Oct 15 03:42:59 hello all, is it possible to browse files on a windows server (ntfs) with my n800? Oct 15 03:43:11 churl: well... Oct 15 03:43:29 churl: if it's using Windows file sharing, I'm sure you can rig something up but it doesn't work out of the box. Oct 15 03:43:32 if your windows server runs a web server... Oct 15 03:43:34 jaem, it's BlueZ. Oct 15 03:43:58 iirc the n800 supports some flavor of UPnP too Oct 15 03:44:05 timeless_mbp: not yet, know a good one? Oct 15 03:44:09 although i don't know how to configure windows to use it Oct 15 03:44:27 N900 sees my uPnP server right off the bat. Oct 15 03:44:56 upnp is probably the preferred solution Oct 15 03:45:00 I think WMP has a built-in upnp server. Oct 15 03:47:17 GA: yes, I guess my question wasn't a terribly useful one Oct 15 03:47:17 This may sound silly, but I've forgotten how I got files onto my n800..... Oct 15 03:48:03 what I should have asked is, is there a way to set up SPP communication on Maemo 5 that is easier than pulling out my hair reading BlueZ's (excuse for) documentation? Oct 15 03:48:19 will the GUI BT manager do it nicely? Oct 15 03:48:23 or is that too much to hope for Oct 15 03:48:28 timeless_mbp, would you help me how to install debug-dep-install Oct 15 03:48:41 jaem, I have absolutely no clue. Oct 15 03:48:45 ah Oct 15 03:48:47 fair enough Oct 15 03:49:01 oh wait Oct 15 03:49:02 >_< Oct 15 03:49:05 http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles Oct 15 03:49:35 maybe I should just look in this PDF guide to doing *exactly that*, which I just downloaded from Nokia Oct 15 03:49:58 sorry :S Oct 15 03:54:21 GeneralAntilles, timeless_mbp: What would you guys suggest for the name of a package providing adblock plus for microb? Oct 15 03:54:41 microBadblock? :P Oct 15 03:54:44 or not Oct 15 03:54:55 Heh. Oct 15 03:54:59 does it require a special package? Oct 15 03:55:19 It's just easier this way. Oct 15 03:55:20 that reminds me... what's the official capitalization of microB? Oct 15 03:55:28 that's always how I've written it Oct 15 03:56:49 GeneralAntilles, timeless_mbp: Is having "microb" in the package name frowned upon? Should I just call it adblockplus-browser-addon? Oct 15 03:58:55 AdBlock Plus Oct 15 03:59:04 MicroB Oct 15 03:59:15 But it's probably more accurate to call it Maemo Browser now. Oct 15 04:00:12 Just call it adblock-plus or adblockplus Oct 15 04:33:51 zerojay: i vote you call it "Shield of Antilles" Oct 15 04:34:55 Heh. Oct 15 04:36:18 * Xisdibik wonders what GeneralAntilles will think Oct 15 04:38:45 a firewall app would be Antilles Castle Oct 15 05:07:04 timeless_mbp, would you help me how to install debug-dep-install Oct 15 05:07:46 * timeless_mbp ponders Oct 15 05:09:40 enable the sdk repository, install maemo-debug-scripts, disable the sdk repository Oct 15 05:12:10 is there anyone here? Oct 15 05:12:35 no Oct 15 05:12:42 just 200 of us chickens Oct 15 05:13:13 :) Oct 15 05:14:02 i'm on my n810 right now and... i have a pretty elaborate problem with, seemingly, few solutions. can anyone help me? Oct 15 05:16:09 i want to dl the october 14th show from http://thepiratebay.org/user/Quazza but i can't torrent. at all. anyone willing to grab it for me and forward it via ctcp? it's like 34MB Oct 15 05:25:00 hmm Oct 15 05:25:02 he left lol Oct 15 05:27:51 * RST38h wonders if Maemo Downloads will eventually add an additional platform button for "Maemo5 Testing" Oct 15 05:29:33 * Proteous wonders if Superman could cause a volcano by shooting his lazer vision straight down into the magma under the earth's crust Oct 15 05:29:52 * Xisdibik wonders if money can grow on trees Oct 15 05:30:11 * Proteous doesn't belive in recycling paper because it grows on trees Oct 15 07:29:27 woo, i'm doing panning desktops on n8x0 Oct 15 07:29:46 Stskeeps: Is is any good or slideshow? :) Oct 15 07:29:58 GL would certainly speed it up. Oct 15 07:30:18 But not too bad? Oct 15 07:30:34 yeah.. i am actually running final hildon desktop now Oct 15 07:31:04 X-Fade: so... i've gotten my package kinda working Oct 15 07:31:10 i need someone who can help me write a .desktop file :) Oct 15 07:31:17 Stskeeps: maybe you can help? :) Oct 15 07:31:19 timeless_mbp: Don't look at me ;) Oct 15 07:32:31 messaging maps store music Oct 15 07:32:34 * timeless_mbp ponders Oct 15 07:32:41 that's almost 4 ms Oct 15 07:32:47 they need to rename "store" to "mall" Oct 15 07:32:57 Nokia/Ovi Mall sounds so much better :) Oct 15 07:33:34 anyone here know of a .desktop file in an app for maemo which launches a shell script? Oct 15 07:33:50 * Stskeeps wonders why on earth osso-bookmark-engine is closed Oct 15 07:34:12 because it's too embarrassing to open :) Oct 15 07:34:57 the basic reason why platform developers will flock to mer is the fact that our stuff actually builds without closed parts, heh Oct 15 07:35:27 your stuff will probably also work Oct 15 07:35:38 the same can not be said for osso-bookmark-engine (or ui for that matter) Oct 15 07:40:17 tbf: have you written .desktop files? :) Oct 15 07:47:23 timeless_mbp: what would be the problem? Oct 15 07:47:28 (with a .desktop file running script) Oct 15 07:47:34 dunno Oct 15 07:47:54 ever tried it? Oct 15 07:48:06 outside of maemo sure, but inside no Oct 15 07:48:18 moin Oct 15 07:49:20 lbt: i have panning desktop on n8x0 :) Oct 15 07:49:59 Mesa? Oct 15 07:50:13 yeah Oct 15 07:50:26 cool - so ready for the drivers... Oct 15 07:50:46 yeah.. MBX is GLES 1.1 though Oct 15 07:50:51 so we need to adjust clutter for it Oct 15 07:51:12 *nod* Oct 15 07:51:18 not easy Oct 15 07:51:22 moo Stskeeps Oct 15 07:51:24 heya lbt Oct 15 07:51:37 morning RST38h, tekojo Oct 15 07:51:42 hi RST38h Oct 15 07:51:47 Morning Stskeeps Oct 15 07:51:54 hi tekojo Oct 15 07:52:00 Morning lbt Oct 15 07:52:33 heya tero Oct 15 07:52:38 * lbt was playing on the LF OBS last night... wow. Oct 15 07:52:52 fast? :P Oct 15 07:52:55 baa RST38h, Stskeeps, lbt, timeless_mbp et all Oct 15 07:52:58 blinding Oct 15 07:53:05 * RST38h shaves crashanddie Oct 15 07:53:15 it built packages almost as fast as I uploaded them Oct 15 07:53:16 RST38h, just did Oct 15 07:53:16 hi crashanddie_ Oct 15 07:53:33 Mer built on it in a few hours Oct 15 07:53:33 ok, surely one of the now awake people can help me w/ my .desktop troubles :) Oct 15 07:53:35 all Mer Oct 15 07:53:44 anyway, late for work Oct 15 07:53:45 lbt: any progress on cross? Oct 15 07:53:49 yes Oct 15 07:53:49 sorry timeless_mbp Oct 15 07:54:05 last night was cross->LF night Oct 15 07:54:15 plus some restructure to avoid cyclic rebuilds Oct 15 07:54:39 when libc builds and triggers binutils to rebuild which triggers libc to rebuild Oct 15 07:55:17 there's a cycle breaker for rpm we need to implement for .debs Oct 15 07:55:48 ok Oct 15 07:57:24 Any kind Nokia employee can tell me how I can block waiting for DBus messages? Oct 15 07:57:48 I.e. when I receive inactivity notification, I would like to block and wait, notwasting any power Oct 15 07:57:56 wazd: Changed providers? =) Oct 15 07:58:00 heya all Oct 15 07:58:10 RST38h: isn't that libosso? Oct 15 07:58:14 RST38h: nope :) Oct 15 07:58:55 Stskeeps: you could bribe koen to get early access to drivers :) Oct 15 07:59:23 Sts: It may be but I have no idea how to do it Oct 15 07:59:23 Stskeeps: the cycle thing won't hold us up - it's a nice to have - I worked around it Oct 15 07:59:48 there is a bugfix that I don't think SR moved to the LF OBS Oct 15 08:00:11 RST38h: I don't understand. If you don't want to use power, then don't do anything. Oct 15 08:05:03 murrayc: Could you explain how I do not do anything? =) Oct 15 08:05:35 timeless_mbp, i can't fix the problem of how to install debug-dep-install ? Oct 15 08:05:48 murrayc: I need to execute some function that will block in the kernel and not return until I get a DBus message. Oct 15 08:05:53 samad: did you add the sdk repo? Oct 15 08:05:59 RST38h: use a glib event loop? Oct 15 08:06:07 If I do not block in the kernel, I spend battery power Oct 15 08:06:21 RST38h: Well, it would be nice to assume that if you don't do any processing, and if your application doesn't need to respond to any UI events, then it won't use much power. That may indeed be naive. Oct 15 08:06:41 i am not clear how to add the repository Oct 15 08:06:48 murrayc: It is only true if your application spends it whole time in glib event loop Oct 15 08:06:49 plz clear me Oct 15 08:07:14 murrayc: Mine does not. And calling main_loop_do(true) exits this function very frequently Oct 15 08:07:22 RST38h: What does your app do? Are you using extra threads? Oct 15 08:07:24 open add/remove (app.manager, whatever) Oct 15 08:07:31 tap the title area Oct 15 08:07:38 select catalog(ue)s Oct 15 08:07:43 murayc: I am using a single thread and a single GtkImage widget Oct 15 08:07:51 wait until the new button brightens (For me this takes about a minute or maybe two) Oct 15 08:08:01 murrayc: this is not very important as far as this problem is concerned though Oct 15 08:08:02 tap new Oct 15 08:08:04 enter: Oct 15 08:08:06 Name: Sdk Oct 15 08:08:14 RST38h: So you are doing some processing in an idle handler? Oct 15 08:08:16 Address: http://repository.maemo.org/ Oct 15 08:08:22 Distribution: fremantle Oct 15 08:08:26 murrayc: I do not have an idle handler Oct 15 08:08:27 Components: sdk/free Oct 15 08:08:30 tap save Oct 15 08:08:52 RST38h: Do you mean that you have a single thread (the regular GTK+ UI thread) or one single extra thread? Oct 15 08:08:53 samad: wait, are you on a device or in a scratchbox? :) Oct 15 08:09:05 murrayc: as I said before, I do process glib messages but do not do it in the glib loop Oct 15 08:09:09 scratchbox? Oct 15 08:09:12 ONE thread total Oct 15 08:09:13 scratchbox Oct 15 08:09:34 hrm Oct 15 08:09:40 apt-cache search maemo-debug-scripts Oct 15 08:09:40 RST38h: That's rather strange then, and unfamiliar to me. Oct 15 08:09:49 RST38h: Sorry. Oct 15 08:09:51 murrayc: It is not a glib application, that is all Oct 15 08:10:08 murraycd: It uses glib to receive messages but it is not built around glib Oct 15 08:10:16 murrayc: fwiw, gecko does a similar thing iirc Oct 15 08:10:54 gecko isn't exactly the best example of good programming, though Oct 15 08:11:28 * timeless_mbp shrugs Oct 15 08:12:00 not that what you do isn't the best example of good programming! Oct 15 08:12:04 it definitely is Oct 15 08:12:21 so.. 3d drivers in 2 weeks? Oct 15 08:12:34 Anyway, outside of changing your application to run inside a glib event loop, how do I block waiting for DBus messages? Oct 15 08:13:27 RST38h: should be a way to do it in dbus lib i would guess Oct 15 08:13:38 timeless_mbp: .desktop files? yes. why? Oct 15 08:13:47 i'm trying to make an icon that launches a shell script Oct 15 08:14:01 Sts: Checked yesterday, no doughnut Oct 15 08:14:28 Basically, I would be happy just doing gtk_main_iteration_do(TRUE) but the damn thing does not block (no matter what documentation says) Oct 15 08:15:33 * RST38h even limited GTK events to focus changes, but the iteration_do still exits Oct 15 08:16:09 timeless_mbp: so where to fail? Oct 15 08:16:32 dunno :) Oct 15 08:19:41 timeless_mbp, im using scratchbox Oct 15 08:20:03 samad: yeah, i told you.... apt-get install maemo-debug-scripts Oct 15 08:22:59 * Stskeeps wonders who chose the media player internet radio Oct 15 08:23:08 i miss the old list from n8x0 Oct 15 08:23:13 'chose'? Oct 15 08:23:38 oh Oct 15 08:23:39 yeah, isn't that correct spelling? who chose the m p internet radio list Oct 15 08:23:54 you dropped 'list' Oct 15 08:24:06 yeah Oct 15 08:24:13 the parsing is totally different :) Oct 15 08:24:32 so far the only thing i've seen in the new list is that they can't consistently use a before a Oct 15 08:25:25 timeless_mbp, i have installe Oct 15 08:25:26 installed Oct 15 08:25:32 timeless_mbp, Now how can i debug ? Oct 15 08:25:44 now you can read the instructions from the url Oct 15 08:25:56 it should explain how to use the script to get debug symbols for your app Oct 15 08:26:24 timeless_mbp, ok thanks Oct 15 08:28:26 why does maemojobs show up in my gmail as advertisement.. Oct 15 08:28:50 morning chaps Oct 15 08:28:59 Stskeeps: well it is an advert itsn't it? Oct 15 08:29:04 yeah Oct 15 08:35:43 qwerty12_N810: your DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR tweak didn't work :( Oct 15 08:40:06 qwerty12_N810: help Oct 15 08:40:11 i need another cpa item for maemo5 Oct 15 08:40:14 can you make it for me? :) Oct 15 08:40:25 I hate dialogs Oct 15 08:40:27 :) Oct 15 08:40:30 * timeless_mbp hates menus Oct 15 08:41:10 let's just go for hating GUIs in general? :) Oct 15 08:42:23 timeless: why haven't menus made the jump from structured tree to search? Oct 15 08:42:33 ? Oct 15 08:43:11 there was some article about some cycle that happens again and againt in computing (or everything) Oct 15 08:43:44 first there is structured trees (yahoo, start menu etc) then when that no longer works due to scaling Oct 15 08:43:56 it changes to search (google) Oct 15 08:45:11 because menus are faster Oct 15 08:45:27 for small sets of data, yes Oct 15 08:45:32 yes Oct 15 08:45:45 the start menu does have search now Oct 15 08:45:55 and i have gnome-do Oct 15 08:47:57 optimizing presentation for the current problem size is a good thing Oct 15 08:50:31 search and menus don't reply to the same problem though Oct 15 08:51:42 I think it would be interesting to apply the search approach to application menus Oct 15 08:55:00 Morning, all Oct 15 08:55:15 morn jaffa Oct 15 08:55:38 crashanddie_: Haven't used Pluthon yet. Example of reading accelerometer: Oct 15 08:56:21 morning Jaffa Oct 15 08:57:15 Stskeeps: how do i restart Mer's hildon-desktop? Oct 15 08:57:18 i'm using some old version Oct 15 08:57:40 * timeless_mbp has no idea how to get a Mer "version" Oct 15 08:57:55 timeless_mbp: rebooting? :P Oct 15 08:58:01 that's what i've been doing Oct 15 08:58:11 but surely there's some way to get x to respawn instead? Oct 15 08:58:32 ctrl-alt-f1 and root/rootme, /etc/init.d/auto-startx restartx Oct 15 08:58:52 crashanddie_: https://garage.maemo.org/viewvc/trunk/packages/attitude.pkg/providers.py?revision=284&root=mud-builder&view=markup Oct 15 08:59:17 er, restart, not restartx Oct 15 09:00:42 woohoo Oct 15 09:00:47 much faster than rebooting Oct 15 09:03:33 woo, i have status area applets Oct 15 09:04:13 Stskeeps: screenshots ! Oct 15 09:04:17 :) Oct 15 09:04:18 sec Oct 15 09:04:33 Pics or it didn't happen ;) Oct 15 09:06:59 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=346935&postcount=74 interesting Oct 15 09:07:10 and not the German tongue bit Oct 15 09:08:07 lardman: were you really holding out this long? :) Oct 15 09:08:23 lardman: in 3 years, you never uploaded to Extras? :) Oct 15 09:08:28 indeed Oct 15 09:08:29 :) Oct 15 09:08:33 end users, pah! Oct 15 09:08:44 heh Oct 15 09:09:07 oh dear, I bet that gets me struck off the list now! ;) Oct 15 09:09:15 Anyway, accepted ;) Oct 15 09:09:15 "wrong attitude: fail" Oct 15 09:09:20 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hildondesktop-fremantle.png Oct 15 09:09:20 thanks :) Oct 15 09:10:29 and http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hildondesktop-statusarea.png Oct 15 09:10:36 black background is due to me editing transitions Oct 15 09:10:48 (this is on a n810 btw) Oct 15 09:11:26 Another quick garage outage is coming up in 20 minutes. Oct 15 09:11:48 I hope that after that, we are done with reboots etc ;) Oct 15 09:12:17 someone needed to resolder the flash inside the 770 I take it? Oct 15 09:12:22 ;) Oct 15 09:12:45 lardman: Nah, remote storage over wlan of course ;) Oct 15 09:12:54 :) Oct 15 09:13:12 But it needs to be in single user mode to copy/move homedirs etc. Oct 15 09:13:22 SyncML over IP ? Oct 15 09:13:44 how hard can it be? Oct 15 09:13:55 'cos I was stumped last night :( Oct 15 09:15:05 Sts: ! Oct 15 09:17:49 anyone here willing to risk their fremantle device? :) Oct 15 09:19:33 Stskeeps: cool Oct 15 09:20:19 now for making desktop widgets work by ripping out bookmark engine.. Oct 15 09:20:27 heh Oct 15 09:20:36 wait, what depends on bookmarks and why? Oct 15 09:20:57 ok, could someone please explain how .desktop files actually work on Maemo? Oct 15 09:21:06 i finally got a .desktop file that Mer [Maemo4] liked Oct 15 09:22:08 timeless_mbp: hildon-home depends on bookmark engine Oct 15 09:22:21 X-Fade: in the email I just got, and indeed on Garage itself, it says "check the invitation", should that not read "confirm the invitation"? Oct 15 09:22:26 is that because it provides the add bookmark widget itself? Oct 15 09:22:35 * lardman needs to generate some keys Oct 15 09:22:45 lardman: details, details ;) Oct 15 09:22:50 lol Oct 15 09:22:51 timeless_mbp: yes Oct 15 09:22:53 np Oct 15 09:22:54 lardman: file a bug in bugs.maemo.org Oct 15 09:23:20 Stskeeps: ok, what stupid black magic do i need to make my .desktop file good enough for hildon? Oct 15 09:23:28 timeless_mbp: yeah I know Oct 15 09:23:41 oh brother Oct 15 09:23:45 dpkg sucks Oct 15 09:23:53 you can't rename files using .install Oct 15 09:23:59 * timeless_mbp grumbles Oct 15 09:24:14 ok fine, i won't do this that way Oct 15 09:27:28 ok. i have an icon in the launcher! Oct 15 09:27:35 ok, a button, not an icon, the icon got lost Oct 15 09:28:25 ok... Oct 15 09:29:21 Is there a maemo-platform handwriting recognition library for use with Gtk/QT? Oct 15 09:31:59 i have installed the maemo-debug-scripts and read the link http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/chinook/maemo-debug-scripts/ Oct 15 09:32:08 but i am not clear Oct 15 09:32:28 timeless_mbp, Oct 15 09:32:47 you want debug-pkg-check Oct 15 09:32:56 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/debug-dep-install/ Oct 15 09:35:41 balor: for maemo4, nokia licensed a handwriting library Oct 15 09:36:00 it is no longer part of the product Oct 15 09:36:30 woohoo Oct 15 09:36:33 * timeless_mbp crashed settings Oct 15 09:36:40 timeless_mbp, So there's no handwriting recognition in Freemantle? Oct 15 09:37:12 uh oh Oct 15 09:37:16 balor: Even better, there is no Freemantle ;) Oct 15 09:37:17 * timeless_mbp messed something up very badly Oct 15 09:37:37 X-Fade, Sorry, I meant Maemo5 Oct 15 09:37:50 balor: Fremantle only has 1 e before the m Oct 15 09:37:54 balor: -e should be enough ;) Oct 15 09:38:34 well, there is handwriting recognition in s60e5 Oct 15 09:38:47 * RST38h even knows humans who use it Oct 15 09:39:08 GeneralAntilles: so... Oct 15 09:39:26 i think my package might be ready enough for you Oct 15 09:39:32 as long as you don't need access to settings :) Oct 15 09:39:49 since right now it crashes it :) Oct 15 09:41:02 is there an icon cache? Oct 15 09:44:45 indeed Oct 15 09:44:46 * timeless_mbp sighs Oct 15 09:48:36 fun fun Oct 15 09:48:45 * timeless_mbp finally gets a version that doesn't install or uninstall Oct 15 09:49:38 where's the apt cache? Oct 15 09:49:43 for .debs Oct 15 09:50:23 interesting, old HIM actually works in new desktop Oct 15 09:51:24 ooh shiny! Oct 15 09:52:36 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hildondesktop-styluskeyboard.png Oct 15 09:52:53 heh Oct 15 09:53:14 that looks insane, obviously, but that's cos it doesn't have the correct theme file Oct 15 09:53:17 that keyboard probably never really worked, did it? Oct 15 09:53:23 the 'm' doesn't fit Oct 15 09:53:32 has jalimo been ported to maemo5? Oct 15 09:53:43 and is it integrated with the browser? Oct 15 09:53:58 no Oct 15 09:54:05 we support flash Oct 15 09:55:53 timeless_mbp: /var/cache/apt/archives Oct 15 09:56:04 thanks Oct 15 09:56:10 it didn't seem to matter thankfully Oct 15 09:56:12 * timeless_mbp is happy Oct 15 09:56:27 so.. if anyone wants to risk bricking their device, please contact me Oct 15 09:56:51 btw, Law of Maemo presentations: If you want to demo everything from the tablet and everything works, there's something wrong with the equipment Oct 15 09:57:05 heh Oct 15 09:59:29 how is the N900 keyboard for gaming? does it support 3+ simultaneous keypresses (assuming 3 thumbs)? Oct 15 10:01:57 ctrl-shift-p is frequently used :) Oct 15 10:02:15 Stskeeps: eeek :) Oct 15 10:02:24 bbiab Oct 15 10:02:47 wazd: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hildondesktop-fremantle.png is better Oct 15 10:03:01 Stskeeps: yeah :) Oct 15 10:03:25 Stskeeps: I wonder why scrollbar is ruined Oct 15 10:03:39 this is a rather shakey non-GL drivers setup so Oct 15 10:03:49 some of the theme bugs are Theme Maker's bugs actually Oct 15 10:06:27 crashanddie: See the link for Python accelerometer reading? Oct 15 10:06:38 wazd: the real theme tools are better yeah Oct 15 10:07:23 mm Nokia Q3 results are in Oct 15 10:08:45 Stskeeps: can I use them? :) Oct 15 10:09:01 wazd: i need to poke some people to trickle them on to gitorious Oct 15 10:20:30 Jaffa: yeah, saw your stuff Oct 15 10:20:34 Jaffa: painfully slow though Oct 15 10:20:46 Jaffa: looks seriously cool though :P Oct 15 10:20:58 o/ ccooke Oct 15 10:23:28 timeless_mbp, would you clear me that contact show, phone call, sms is possible in Maemo 5 SDK for N900 Oct 15 10:23:54 "clear me"? Oct 15 10:25:59 timeless_mbp, I also need the API for any missed call or unread sms Oct 15 10:33:33 how can i check missed call or unread sms for n900 ? plz any API ? Oct 15 10:33:56 * timeless shrugs Oct 15 10:34:08 * timeless works on nrowser not abook Oct 15 10:36:16 samad: rtcom-eventlogger Oct 15 10:37:10 tbf, rtcom-eventlogger mean ? if explain plz Oct 15 10:37:44 samad: that's the api for checking missing calls Oct 15 10:38:51 tbf , for unread SMS what's the API plz ? Oct 15 10:40:22 ;m tbf *sigh* Oct 15 10:42:15 samad: you need to use locate/dpkg/google when people give you suggestions Oct 15 10:42:58 crashanddie: Cairo isn't accelerated on Maemo. Will switch to using Clutter or something for speed, but need to a) be bothered; b) find time Oct 15 10:43:19 Jaffa: is Qt accelerated? Oct 15 10:43:29 well, Qt with OpenGL I guess Oct 15 10:43:41 Jaffa: can't seem to be finding any PyQt or PySide libraries though Oct 15 10:43:47 timeless Actually i am very beginner in device programming Oct 15 10:44:48 just i want to know is it possible or not ? Oct 15 10:46:40 samad: librtcom-eventlogger is the API for reading such events. it should be published on maemo.gitorious.org soon Oct 15 10:47:51 tbf, that means it is not workbale now Oct 15 10:48:26 samad: patience. patience. the device is not even on sale yet! ;-) Oct 15 10:48:48 samed: well maybe the headers are in the SDK already. Oct 15 10:50:07 samad: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/r/rtcom-eventlogger/librtcom-eventlogger-dev_0.79-2+0m5_armel.deb Oct 15 10:50:12 tbf, yes u r right , but i need to know The librtcom-eventlogger API is workable or not ? plz Oct 15 10:50:14 samed: did you try "apt-get install librtcom-eventlogger-dev" in your SDK? Oct 15 10:50:34 tbf, no Oct 15 10:50:47 samad: it's available, API frozen and used all over the place in Maemo 5 Oct 15 10:51:13 tbf, thanks Oct 15 11:05:19 GeneralAntilles: Got AdBlock Plus working. Let me know if you wanna test it out. Oct 15 11:06:07 uuu Oct 15 11:07:19 re Oct 15 11:08:31 you guys have an idea how to fix this problem when trying to apt-get update Oct 15 11:08:38 E: The method driver /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/lib/apt/methods/https could not be found. Oct 15 11:14:03 zerojay: please test my package :) Oct 15 11:14:34 timeless: I'm going to do that now that I got this one mostly done. Oct 15 11:14:42 cool Oct 15 11:14:44 ensi, sometimes I had to dig the https manually into the target Oct 15 11:14:49 method Oct 15 11:15:24 i need to take a fresh device and install it Oct 15 11:16:03 adeus: can you clarify that please? Oct 15 11:16:35 ensi, if you just want to get rid of that error copy the method into your target Oct 15 11:16:40 Hmm.. poking around the old browser-extras SVN... didn't know they were working on a port of FirefoxJournal for Diablo. Oct 15 11:17:48 timeless: What package should adblock-plus depend upon for Maemo Browser? Oct 15 11:20:04 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktopshortcut.png Oct 15 11:20:12 are there any plans for maemo 6 being ported to the n900? (i guess not, but asking does not hurt) Oct 15 11:20:24 RichiH: asking nokia would be a better choice i guess Oct 15 11:20:43 we'll port whatever comes out of harmattan, from mer pov :P Oct 15 11:20:57 Stskeeps: there are nokia people in here, even if they are somewhat loath to identify themselves Oct 15 11:21:04 adeus: what is the method and what is the target? Oct 15 11:21:13 Stskeeps: shouldn't i ask mer about mer's pov? ;) Oct 15 11:21:17 #mer Oct 15 11:21:22 mer's a open project :P Oct 15 11:21:23 richih: the situation seems to be entirely open... technically it wouldn't be hard, but there's no promise it would happen either. Oct 15 11:21:29 ensi, your missing /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/lib/apt/methods/https Oct 15 11:21:39 well, s/would/should/ Oct 15 11:21:51 ensi, it is in /scratchbox/devkits/apt-https/lib/apt/methods/https Oct 15 11:22:10 either take that devkit into use or copy that file into the ecth devkit Oct 15 11:22:17 kirma: yah, when i read that nokia plans to deploy maemo 6 on an omap 3 platform, i started to wonder Oct 15 11:23:23 they might be making the decision on the basis of n900 sales figures. if it sells well, it's probably worth to maintain... but even in that case, they might not provide incremental upgrade path, which makes it tedious for "normal" users to do it. Oct 15 11:23:30 There are several issues. If n900 sells very badly compared to forecasts for n920 - little effort may go in. Oct 15 11:23:45 (where 920 is a random number) Oct 15 11:23:47 maemo 5 and maemo 6 will have considerably differing user experience at some level... Oct 15 11:24:05 And if 6 multitouch is a major part - that presents obvious problems with the 900 Oct 15 11:24:10 yep Oct 15 11:24:38 The flipside is that mer-on-n900 is likely to improve dramatically with several thousand n900s in the wild. Oct 15 11:24:43 I wonder if nokia is going to go multitouch-only devices or multitouch-dominated gestures... Oct 15 11:25:01 I still wonder why everybody wants to have multitouch. Oct 15 11:25:07 I should probably offer too much beer to some specific friends and fish some information. ;> Oct 15 11:25:27 kirma: they might feed you shit information(just seeing their viewpoint on the whole thing) Oct 15 11:25:49 glass: of course. Oct 15 11:25:50 tbf, i have installed librtcom-eventlogger-plugins-dev_0.31-1+0m5_i386.deb Now could u help me how can be used the API ? I am not finding user manual Oct 15 11:25:53 the difficulty with making these assumptions on if something will be supported or not in timespace xyz is that nobody probably inside nokia even knows for sure Oct 15 11:25:54 ...but the beer would still be just fine ;) Oct 15 11:26:05 range: because multitouch+capacitative are now the only words the unwashed pubic knows. Oct 15 11:26:10 public Oct 15 11:26:19 somehow I feel that although multitouch is fancy, it's not *so* practical. single-handed usage scenarios are practically impossible with it. Oct 15 11:26:22 samad: no -doc package? Oct 15 11:26:36 SpeedEvil: I liked the first version better :) Oct 15 11:26:39 samad: maybe you can get the source via librtcom-eventlogger-plugins? Oct 15 11:26:47 yes Oct 15 11:27:06 samad: had the luck of not getting bothered with it so far. just know that it is the component you have to use Oct 15 11:27:20 I think they're scratching their heads if they should implement both multitouch and other gestures/methods for everything or not Oct 15 11:27:32 google search shows only package name not API reference Oct 15 11:27:50 kirma: It would be practical and damn cool if it could do finger detection. Oct 15 11:28:03 kirma: so pinky = zoom, index = select Oct 15 11:29:37 the amount of two-finger gestures that are practical and differ from single-finger gestures is actually surprisingly small, if you think of it. Oct 15 11:29:50 samad, you've got both the packages, dev packages, and sources of eventlogger here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/r/; rtcom-eventlogger is the logger core (logging,querying the log); rtcom-eventlogger-ui is gtk widget for showing the log, accompanying model object and a search widget; -plugins implement specific per-service functionality (e.g. chat event support) Oct 15 11:30:22 and two fingers on the screen obscure more than one. Oct 15 11:30:23 Jaffa: mhmh, looking at arm website, it seems that cortex-a8 supports trustzone Oct 15 11:30:34 kirma: yeah Oct 15 11:30:51 samad: in rtcom-eventlogger source tree, you can look at tests/check_el.c for examples how to use the api; there's also a sample commandline client in client/el-client.c Oct 15 11:31:23 samad, for example on how to use the gtk widget, look in rtcom-eventlogger-ui source tree in example/example.c Oct 15 11:31:25 ptlo, thanks Oct 15 11:31:34 Corsac: http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-technology-highlights page 3 Oct 15 11:31:43 Corsac: Maemo 6 will stay with Omap 3. Oct 15 11:32:05 also the functions are annotated in the headers (which you can use as a function ref); there are no explicit docs for the api Oct 15 11:32:17 ptlo: hmm, did you use to hang out in #l4ka or something? Oct 15 11:32:59 Stskeeps, heya! wow, is world a small place or what :D yes i did, around '05/'06, dabbled with Pistachio for my diploma thesis Oct 15 11:33:06 corsac: having a true root of trust probably depends on startup code on OMAP3 internal ROM though. if nokia has been forward-looking enough, the code there verifies that next piece of code loaded on the device is always signed by trusted body... which would be something like signed boot loader supplied by nokia in this case. that way they could deploy DRM on N900 as software upgrade... Oct 15 11:33:17 So, thoughts on whether to use telepathy api or the osso-abook api to detect which contacts are online? Oct 15 11:33:18 ptlo: hehe, yeah :) i'm now happy with maemo stuff :P Oct 15 11:33:32 kirma: absolutely ideally, with each device having a seperate key too Oct 15 11:33:35 kirma: read the maemo6 security slides Oct 15 11:34:04 X-Fade: yeah I know the slides, but I was refering to maemo5 :) Oct 15 11:34:29 Corsac: Yeah, I just wanted to point out same hardware. Oct 15 11:34:38 corsac: link? Oct 15 11:35:10 kirma: http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-platform-security Oct 15 11:35:11 kirma: X-Fade gave it Oct 15 11:35:24 hmh. Oct 15 11:35:49 kirma: page 5 Oct 15 11:35:54 qwerty12_N810: you about? Oct 15 11:37:20 Stskeeps, yeah, a hackable embedded stuff you can use for real, not just in a pc emulator :) [tho i saw on okl4 pages it's used in some phones, but not as an open platform] Oct 15 11:38:36 X-Fade: if I want to upload a package, do I need to change a field and stick my name in somewhere? Oct 15 11:38:47 in debian/control Oct 15 11:38:48 corsac: anyway, it's kind of stupid if that isn't already in the boot rom of N900s, just unused. Oct 15 11:40:02 kirma: I'm wondering what is the maemo5 security architecture, yes Oct 15 11:40:06 if there's any Oct 15 11:40:33 there isn't much of it there, or none in the same sense. Oct 15 11:40:39 as far as I understood... Oct 15 11:41:17 ptlo: i do Mer now (wiki.maemo.org/Mer) Oct 15 11:42:34 but I'd sincerely hope that capability of verifying signed boot loaders and allowing only those to use trustzone features is there, because that would make it relatively trivial to support DRM and such stuff on existing N900s... Oct 15 11:43:20 that would suck Oct 15 11:43:48 trustzone is only about allowing some code to run in a secure zone, not allowing some code to crack drm Oct 15 11:43:50 I'm not quite certain if one could protect specific areas of flash storage from nonprivileged access though Oct 15 11:44:31 I don't care about drm, but I do care about doing stuff in protected mode Oct 15 11:44:34 aegis secure storage Oct 15 11:44:39 next slide ;) Oct 15 11:44:41 what I hope is that you cannot change the ARM TrEE setup remotely, like disabling running a free bootloader. Oct 15 11:45:03 mikhas: You can't replace the bootloader :) Oct 15 11:45:22 err, kernel. Oct 15 11:45:30 mikhas: As the cpu only accepts signed loader. Oct 15 11:45:42 tell me more Oct 15 11:46:01 mikhas: As long as your device isn't simlocked, you can run a free kernel Oct 15 11:46:35 and this privilege cant be revoked at a later point, right? Oct 15 11:46:40 and, looking at trustzone, I don't think it would be impossible to use trustzone with a free kernel Oct 15 11:46:51 as long as drivers are available, though Oct 15 11:46:54 mikhas: Not without updating bootloader Oct 15 11:47:15 good Oct 15 11:47:31 x-fade: I'm trying to understand what this "aegis" really is Oct 15 11:47:50 kirma: basically a capability and encryption framework Oct 15 11:48:15 just software? Oct 15 11:48:33 kirma: you will have regular fopen and fopen_secure next to each other Oct 15 11:48:55 Don't know the actual name of the call :) Oct 15 11:49:01 hmh, that level. Oct 15 11:49:52 where is the simlock info held? Oct 15 11:50:09 probably in a protected area, probed by bootloader? Oct 15 11:50:21 I'd expect it to be on the mobile phone hardware core Oct 15 11:50:38 http://www.theonion.com/content/?q=news_briefs/cell_phone_stuck_in_2_year Oct 15 11:50:40 lol Oct 15 11:50:44 Or that, phone part is basically running on different hardware. Oct 15 11:51:10 I sort of understand the need for security frameworks, but also the "rights management frameworks", and certainly trusted execution contexts for future devices running radio protocol stack on the same silicon with applications... which would allow running own kernel with something like symbian-derived soft 3GPP modem on the side. Oct 15 11:51:44 DRM matters mostly to bring commercial vendors to the device, which matters to succeed on the market. Oct 15 11:52:03 Igor Stoppa showed the internal device layout in his talk. Oct 15 11:52:13 higher-level security frameworks are just nice for customer security Oct 15 11:52:30 Phone part is basically a S40 phone to which the kernel talks ;) Oct 15 11:53:05 I'm not too surprised. Oct 15 11:53:16 yeh afaik a lot of symbian smartphone cheapness(of the cheap models) is running just one arm core Oct 15 11:53:52 zerojay: ok, it seems i'm using a package that isn't part of Maemo5 default :( Oct 15 11:53:53 * timeless_mbp sighs Oct 15 11:54:00 * timeless_mbp goes to change the code a bit Oct 15 11:54:04 oh? Oct 15 11:54:11 so just wait then? Oct 15 11:54:12 my perl uses File::Copy Oct 15 11:54:14 yeah Oct 15 11:54:18 ok Oct 15 11:54:19 it'll take me ~2mins Oct 15 11:54:26 kirma: and also regulatory approval and cheapness. Oct 15 11:54:31 so the screenshotter doesn't capture Xv Oct 15 11:54:50 msg me the repo address again. don't have it on me. Oct 15 11:54:56 kirma: If you can make a single-core phone that has the radio stack on the same CPU as the applications, you reduce the cost. Oct 15 11:55:01 the provable chain of trust would be essential for the software-implemented radio stack. Oct 15 11:55:08 yeah Oct 15 11:55:10 kirma: higher level security are interesting for a lot of people Oct 15 11:55:13 but it doesn't matter for N900... but for future devices, maybe. Oct 15 11:55:19 kirma: especially business ones Oct 15 11:56:39 real-timeness of linux kernel to cope with other kernel running on side the 3GPP stack is something that makes me doubt a bit if it's possible Oct 15 11:57:34 higher level security should be easier to implement I hope. Oct 15 11:57:53 zerojay: ok, it's ready Oct 15 11:58:06 * timeless_mbp goes to find something Oct 15 11:59:01 * tigert plays netradio with the 770 Oct 15 11:59:13 man this thing is cute, but also huge compared to the N900 Oct 15 11:59:13 lardman: Sorry to not have been around yesterday. Had a nice birthday dinner though if that is any consolation. Oct 15 11:59:25 lardman: How did libchamplain packaging go? Oct 15 11:59:41 The lastlog seems to indicate you may have found a solution? Oct 15 12:00:44 I was going to try installing Mer on my SmartQ5, but the links on http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.14 are 404. Are the images available somewhere else? Oct 15 12:00:50 Or should I just wait for 0.16? Oct 15 12:01:07 #mer Oct 15 12:01:49 OK. Oct 15 12:01:50 is there mer for 770 btw? Oct 15 12:01:56 creideiki: check out #mer on freenode. Oct 15 12:02:00 * tigert wonders how to resurrect the hardware Oct 15 12:02:07 tigert: I think I asked Stskeeps about that and he said yes Oct 15 12:02:15 ok Oct 15 12:02:16 well Oct 15 12:02:20 * tigert asks google Oct 15 12:02:22 tigert: Well, Stskeeps got it to work anyway. :) Oct 15 12:02:40 Even Maemo5 desktop should work ;) Oct 15 12:02:45 Slideshow-ish.. Oct 15 12:02:50 well, heh yeah exactly Oct 15 12:02:59 slideshow-ish lol Oct 15 12:03:36 if you use it outdoors in winter you even get some nice fade transitions ;) Oct 15 12:03:47 Heh indeed. Oct 15 12:07:58 * tigert ponders installing mer on the N810 instead Oct 15 12:08:10 the 770 is so cute though Oct 15 12:09:11 mer will certainly be nicer when we have GLES drivers Oct 15 12:09:15 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktop.png Oct 15 12:09:57 Stskeeps: Whoah! Oct 15 12:09:58 nice Oct 15 12:10:22 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/4013325571/ Oct 15 12:10:23 I'd say there has been some progress ;) Oct 15 12:10:26 Stskeeps, i heard something about gl not being possible due to hardware limitations with chipset and screen res Oct 15 12:12:20 http://www.flickr.com/photos/aandza/4014130120/ <-- little python app doing a gst pipeline videotestsrc ! ximagesink Oct 15 12:12:49 zaheerm: seemingly not true Oct 15 12:14:28 Stskeeps, i look forward to seeing hardware accelerated gl on my n810 Oct 15 12:16:08 zaheerm: But that doesn't say it will be fast ;) Oct 15 12:17:02 X-Fade, if it is fast enough to do the fremantle effects like the task switcher, it'll be nice Oct 15 12:18:00 Hello, do we have GPS working in Mer? Oct 15 12:18:00 zaheerm: I'm still worried that is has enough power for the small screen res like N95 and our screen is 4 times as big orso ;) Oct 15 12:18:10 udzinari: yes but not under later kernels Oct 15 12:19:12 Stskeeps: any idea if we will have it in 0.16 or 0.17? Oct 15 12:19:26 udzinari: 0.17/0.18 is goal. we have some legal issues to deal with Oct 15 12:20:11 Stskeeps: hope they will be dealt with ease :) thank you and good luck! Oct 15 12:20:12 udzinari: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Roadmap Oct 15 12:36:35 when using gstreamer in my C app, compiling with -Wall -pedantic shows lots of errors in the gstreamer lib saying "/gstinfo.h:1144:37: warning: anonymous variadic macros were introduced in C99". How can I disable just this warning? Oct 15 12:36:49 and also this: gstutils.h:565:1: warning: use of C99 long long integer constant Oct 15 12:37:28 -std=c99 Oct 15 12:38:02 suihkulokki: mhh, okay. thanks Oct 15 12:45:40 "Citing anonymous sources, the Apple news site says the functionality of the application will be similar to what Apple built into the iPod Nano. That includes the ability to pause live FM transmissions and fast-forward when you resume playing." Oct 15 12:46:21 hmmh. that doesn't sound like too bad feature for N900 radio app either, considering it is going through software anyway. Oct 15 12:46:22 zerojay: ok, one last bug in the package Oct 15 12:46:29 the sudoers file doesn't work Oct 15 12:46:32 kirma: yep Oct 15 12:46:38 * timeless_mbp found the bug Oct 15 12:47:30 morning fiferboy Oct 15 12:47:43 hey lardman|home Oct 15 12:47:44 well I guess it is for you anyway Oct 15 12:47:45 like pause-radio-for-calls Oct 15 12:47:53 You guessed right :) Oct 15 12:47:59 skip commercial breaks more like ;) Oct 15 12:48:22 kirma: need a "cool apps" wiki page for devs to chose their target from Oct 15 12:48:41 well, that too, but then you're left with blank spots on your listening Oct 15 12:48:51 I just saw a nice use of libchamplain - showing where your photos were taken from their geotags, would make a nice addition to the image viewer Oct 15 12:49:10 speaking of which, is the image viewer open source? Oct 15 12:49:26 radio ad fingerprinting and online matching wouldn't be impossible, although that's really quite a bit towards blue-sky fantasizing Oct 15 12:50:04 the image view could do with nicer transitions when flicking between images Oct 15 12:50:50 kirma: just jumping 30s forwards would be good Oct 15 12:51:55 jeremiah: ping Oct 15 12:52:45 ah hang on, might have mistyped that fix of qwerty's Oct 15 12:54:42 so if I stick a modified debian package in Extras-*, do I need to add my name to the control file? Oct 15 12:55:02 lardman|home: yes Oct 15 12:55:09 cool, libchaimplain-4.something finally built :) Oct 15 12:55:13 X-Fade: where? Oct 15 12:55:22 lardman|home: The original maintainer shouldn't be bothered with bugs in maemo. Oct 15 12:55:46 lardman|home: debian/control -> Maintainer: you Oct 15 12:55:53 of course, but people may want to know who he/she was? Oct 15 12:56:09 lardman|home: That is what Original-Maintainer is for Oct 15 12:56:17 ah, I see Oct 15 12:56:20 cool Oct 15 12:56:35 * lardman|home reckons these should be on the how to use Extras page Oct 15 12:56:36 if they aren't already Oct 15 12:56:39 XSBC-Original-Maintainer Oct 15 12:57:14 where does that go? Oct 15 12:57:21 control Oct 15 12:57:24 My control file just has "Maintainer:" Oct 15 12:57:59 Yes, and add it there. Oct 15 12:57:59 and swap my name into that field instead Oct 15 12:58:00 ok Oct 15 12:58:07 why the XSBC- stuff Oct 15 12:58:08 ? Oct 15 12:58:16 X is extension Oct 15 12:58:54 ok, something we've added then Oct 15 12:59:12 over and above the Debian spec Oct 15 12:59:13 Source, Binary, Control Oct 15 12:59:46 lardman|home: Yes, but actually ubuntu did. Oct 15 12:59:56 ok Oct 15 13:00:05 What about fields like "Uploaders:" ? Oct 15 13:00:22 lardman|home: We don't use that Oct 15 13:00:30 delete it then? Oct 15 13:00:44 Stskeeps: ping? Oct 15 13:00:46 yep Oct 15 13:00:51 k, thanks Oct 15 13:00:57 javispedro: pong Oct 15 13:01:24 Hehe, fast internet becomes a right for Finnish people. Oct 15 13:02:15 Well, minimum of 1Mbit now, but 100Mbit in 5 years.. Oct 15 13:07:00 X-Fade: do I need to sign my packages? Oct 15 13:07:18 lardman|home: No, you can, but is not required Oct 15 13:07:28 phew, no clue how to Oct 15 13:07:29 hey, whats the technical name for the video out - if i were going to a conference, how would I describe the projector requirements Oct 15 13:08:22 composite? Oct 15 13:09:13 dunno Oct 15 13:10:13 lardman|home: Pong Oct 15 13:10:16 composite should be most understood Oct 15 13:10:38 jeremiah: nm, qwerty's fix did fix it, I just typed it in wrongly Oct 15 13:10:40 doh! Oct 15 13:10:44 w00t! Oct 15 13:11:00 Qwerty magic works again. :) Oct 15 13:11:00 lardman, glass :) thanks Oct 15 13:11:07 I've not tested it yet, I guess I should do that before trying to push to extras? Oct 15 13:11:21 lardman|home: Ya think??? Oct 15 13:11:30 nah! live on the edge! Oct 15 13:11:34 X-Fade: it's a lib, so testing may take some time :p Oct 15 13:11:39 but yes Oct 15 13:12:02 lardman|home: just leave it in -devel then. Oct 15 13:12:17 ah, so I can push it to -devel can I so it can be tested? Oct 15 13:12:49 -devel is basically a minefield Oct 15 13:13:07 I should at least try it out, then push it if it seems to work. I'll do that Oct 15 13:14:07 Just don't apt-get dist-upgrade with -devel enabled! Oct 15 13:14:15 heh Oct 15 13:14:16 (or at any other time until a flash image is available) Oct 15 13:14:23 lol Oct 15 13:14:29 oh dear Oct 15 13:14:39 I got my tablet reflashed on sunday at the summit :| Oct 15 13:14:59 i take it no flash image is available yet>? Oct 15 13:15:11 I haven't heard that it is. Oct 15 13:15:18 fiferboy: So you willingly typed in 'Yes, I am sure this breaks my device' ;) Oct 15 13:15:51 X-Fade: :) Actually, all the update and install stuff looked fine, but the "remove" stuff was scrolled off the top of the terminal Oct 15 13:16:03 It removed 3/4 of the built-in apps before I stopped it. Oct 15 13:16:32 fiferboy: But still, everytime you have to type that line, you _really_ need to be sure you know what you are doing. Oct 15 13:16:39 dist-updating with diablo-extras-devel on also bricked tablet wi-fi, so nothing new. Oct 15 13:16:58 oh no, Garage is going slow again, just to stop me uploading my first ever package! Oct 15 13:17:00 Whatever you do, don't approve of any action that removes libconic. Oct 15 13:17:13 could someone please talk me through writing a .install file w/ multiple repositories? Oct 15 13:17:19 it just need it for testing Oct 15 13:17:20 "Oh, look, now I don't have a network connection." Oct 15 13:17:26 X-Fade: Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Although, surprisingly, I never had an issue with it in diablo Oct 15 13:18:01 lardman|home: The internet is rejecting your package Oct 15 13:18:07 That sounded wrong :| Oct 15 13:18:24 lol Oct 15 13:18:28 sure did! Oct 15 13:19:12 hey lardman, i see what you mean about camera needing focus Oct 15 13:19:47 hey, 404 Error at http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_hildon_manual/html/ and http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_hildon_tutorial/html/ :( Oct 15 13:19:52 I just found an open boradcasting wifi connection with an SSID of "Hidden Wifi: Oct 15 13:19:59 lcuk: you tried the barcode reader? Oct 15 13:20:06 seems to work better with the latest image Oct 15 13:20:32 yeah i did try Oct 15 13:20:40 what type of ssh keys do I need? dsa? Oct 15 13:20:42 i also notice the red light isnt on! Oct 15 13:20:58 not mandatory is it? Oct 15 13:21:06 or is that an autofocus light, not sure Oct 15 13:21:19 probably something especially designed for Japanese trains Oct 15 13:22:16 fiferboy, ive also found hidden wifi Oct 15 13:22:35 traut: yes, fixing that :/ Oct 15 13:22:52 I haven't tried connecting to it, but I thought it was a weird name for a broadcasting connection :) Oct 15 13:22:55 lizardo: great, thanks :) Oct 15 13:23:27 fiferboy, its a hidden connection the SSID isn't hidden connection Oct 15 13:23:34 if you try to open it you have to identify with the real SSID Oct 15 13:23:35 to connect Oct 15 13:23:49 i've found 3 or 4 of them Oct 15 13:23:55 around the hague Oct 15 13:24:02 Ah. Strange. Never come across that before. Oct 15 13:24:10 I saw one today Oct 15 13:24:25 also ran into a surprising number of WEP access points Oct 15 13:24:34 what does an ssh key look like then? Should it have line breaks before / symbols Oct 15 13:24:35 ? Oct 15 13:24:55 lardman|home: All one line Oct 15 13:25:10 including the ssh-dss at the beginning? Oct 15 13:25:22 lardman|home: That is the important part ;) Oct 15 13:25:49 hmm, now I see Oct 15 13:25:57 lardman|home: You can also use the Extras Assistant, so you don't need a key. Oct 15 13:25:59 mine has spaces in it, and it's line breaking where the spaces are Oct 15 13:26:13 ah, that sounds much better Oct 15 13:26:29 but I need to validate my uploadingness don't I? Oct 15 13:26:40 Yes Oct 15 13:26:54 murrayc: we have spent some time upgrading beagle port scripts to 5.0 btw Oct 15 13:27:35 X-Fade: ok, well I've said yes, will wait for the email and start uploading Oct 15 13:33:14 lardman|home: rsa Oct 15 13:33:46 IIRC dsa is the US govt one that the nsa helped make 'secure' Oct 15 13:34:48 * lbt still wants SyncML over IP for N900<->eGroupware Oct 15 13:35:19 uucp Oct 15 13:35:27 lbt: damn Oct 15 13:35:35 lbt: ah well, turns out I don't need it now anyway Oct 15 13:35:44 * lbt not 100% positive ... Oct 15 13:35:50 np Oct 15 13:36:00 I'm not too bothered about the NSA reading my emails anyway ;) Oct 15 13:36:10 * lbt more worried about lack of SyncML Oct 15 13:36:17 Oct 15 13:36:31 lardman|home: They probably already do ;) Oct 15 13:36:50 indeed, all the talk of rockets, etvc Oct 15 13:37:04 and my general abuse of American spelling Oct 15 13:37:55 they probably think I'm writing in code too, all those "s" and "u" Oct 15 13:38:00 ;) Oct 15 13:38:42 good morning Oct 15 13:38:53 barisione, hello Oct 15 13:39:17 samad: hi Oct 15 13:39:17 how r u? Oct 15 13:39:30 good, thanks Oct 15 13:40:10 i want to detevt miss call , unread sms uding API . is it possible using Telepathy Oct 15 13:40:35 *detect Oct 15 13:40:46 bbiab Oct 15 13:41:13 samad: hm Oct 15 13:41:29 I think event logger should do that Oct 15 13:42:20 barisione, yes i know using event logger it can do but I can't find any proper document Oct 15 13:42:38 that means API Oct 15 13:44:15 librtcom-eventlogger-plugins-dev_0.31-1+0m5_i386.deb, i have installed librtcom-eventlogger-plugins-dev_0.31-1+0m5_i386.deb but how can i call the API need proper documents. Oct 15 13:44:31 isn't there a -doc package? Oct 15 13:44:36 samad: This has been explained to you more than once today. Oct 15 13:44:49 samad: Just look at the header files. Oct 15 13:46:22 * X-Fade wonders what the easiest way is to detect if an application has been optified in the package interface. Oct 15 13:47:36 if [ -e /opt ] ? ;) Oct 15 13:47:58 Stskeeps: Without having to parse the package ;) Oct 15 13:48:35 X-Fade, noob question: you're parsing the controls file right ? Oct 15 13:48:44 VDVsx: no Oct 15 13:48:57 VDVsx: The repository Packages file. Oct 15 13:49:07 barisione, i didn't find any document Oct 15 13:49:18 X-Fade, ah, like the app manager Oct 15 13:50:27 VDVsx: Yeah, although I could do that during builds Oct 15 13:53:13 * VDVsx wonders why supertux is taking that long to show in the packages interface Oct 15 13:53:32 * VDVsx blames qwerty12_N810 :P Oct 15 13:53:48 VDVsx: Because I just started it Oct 15 13:54:26 lol Oct 15 13:54:46 samad: I was told there is no documentation for it :'( Oct 15 13:54:54 samad: there isn't an explicit documentation Oct 15 13:55:16 as i said before, there are annotations in the header files and example code you can learn from, but there's not a manual or a guide to it Oct 15 13:56:43 ptlo, from where i can get example code Oct 15 13:57:26 samad: in rtcom-eventlogger source code there's test/check_el.c which has a number of small tests with examples on how to do logging, or querying the log Oct 15 13:58:25 ptlo , ok i am checking Oct 15 13:58:47 ptlo: so do you do anything related to maemo these days? just pondering where you fit in :) Oct 15 13:58:54 samad: for detecting the missed calls, what you'd need is construct a query for RTCOM_EL_EVENTTYPE_CALL_MISSED event type; for unread sms'es, you'd want a query for RTCOM_EL_SERVICE_SMS service and then check the is_read flag for every sms message Oct 15 13:59:47 re Oct 15 13:59:50 ptl, thanks a lot Oct 15 14:00:34 ptl, would u plz give me the link of test/check_el.c example Oct 15 14:02:29 X-Fade: I am going to start parsing the etc/json doc to try to hook in minimae. :) Oct 15 14:02:49 Stskeeps, i'm working for collabora (www.collabora.co.uk), we're working on telepathy, farsight and other interesting related stuff; myself i'm on the IM related things Oct 15 14:03:04 ptlo: ah - cool :) it's working quite nicely on the n900 imho Oct 15 14:03:34 ptl, would u plz give me the link of test/check_el.c example Oct 15 14:03:47 samad: in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/r/rtcom-eventlogger/rtcom-eventlogger_0.79-2+0m5.tar.gz tarball tests/check_el.c Oct 15 14:04:30 ptlo: can I ask you what is the easiest way of getting a list of online contacts then? through telepathy or through osso-abook? Oct 15 14:05:31 hmm Oct 15 14:05:57 * tigert wonders if anyone has got pidgin-sipe working on maemo Oct 15 14:06:16 lardman, probably through osso-abook, you get all your contacts and then filter based on presence (or possibly there's already a convenience api for that) Oct 15 14:06:40 wazd: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktop.png Oct 15 14:06:45 ptlo, thanks Oct 15 14:06:46 (was an old version of your theme) Oct 15 14:07:12 ptlo: sounds rather interesting Oct 15 14:07:13 Stskeeps: sexy :) Oct 15 14:07:38 ptlo: cool, thanks. Another question, do you happen to know where the geolocation data is added to the contacts' messages? Oct 15 14:07:51 lardman, i've no idea, sorry Oct 15 14:08:10 np Oct 15 14:08:24 lardman: I would guess it's the presence ui Oct 15 14:08:29 but it's just a complete guess Oct 15 14:08:32 Stskeeps: too bad that I'll have to reduce that dark fade on the edge Oct 15 14:08:34 lardman: It looks like it isn't added at all? Oct 15 14:08:41 barisione: ok Oct 15 14:08:48 Stskeeps: because of that desktop settings button bug Oct 15 14:08:56 X-Fade: it can be switched on so i understand Oct 15 14:08:56 lardman: Just as presence 'comment'. Oct 15 14:09:04 yes, sorry that's what I meant Oct 15 14:14:35 what was qwerty12_N810's status area applet called again? the brightness one Oct 15 14:15:11 anybody with an N900 and a MicroUSB card who can confirm https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5456 ? Thanks in advance Oct 15 14:15:23 microusb? microsd you mean Oct 15 14:15:31 well. i was also confused Oct 15 14:15:46 but after googling i am not sure anymore that this really does not exist Oct 15 14:16:03 andre__: This bug is bogus Oct 15 14:16:07 It is designed to do this. Oct 15 14:16:18 Stskeeps: simple-brightness-applet Oct 15 14:16:19 There is a magnet in the battery cover to detect opening. Oct 15 14:16:25 i expected something like that Oct 15 14:16:27 ah. Oct 15 14:16:29 It should be unmounted. Oct 15 14:16:35 okay. why? :-P Oct 15 14:16:43 Because otherwise you remove the card without unmounting Oct 15 14:16:46 == dataloss Oct 15 14:17:25 i see. makes sense. i wasnt sure because if it's really about a card added by *USB* it didnt make sense Oct 15 14:17:30 But it certainly is MicroSD Oct 15 14:17:34 in case he really means microSD, sure Oct 15 14:17:46 thanks, i'll put it to moreinfo Oct 15 14:18:00 DONTLOSEYOURBACKCOVER Oct 15 14:18:07 lol @ that Oct 15 14:18:12 heh Oct 15 14:18:18 (and, when he says it's indeed microSD, WONTFIX. Even I'd agree on that) Oct 15 14:18:26 "the music on my ipod stops playing when i remove the casing and disconnect the drive" Oct 15 14:18:31 why on Earth would you lose your back cover, other than continaully taking it off while playing music? ;) Oct 15 14:18:56 It is really hard to remove the back cover. Oct 15 14:19:04 say it's in the spec to not allow music playback while the back cover is off Oct 15 14:19:11 You really are doing something wrong when it just falls off ;) Oct 15 14:19:38 missing a hammer to get that nail into the wall an N900 is really useful :-P Oct 15 14:19:54 can we not comment on the bug before it's WONTFIX_BUGGER_OFF'd? Oct 15 14:20:10 I'd love to know why he needs this feature Oct 15 14:20:23 you can always comment, even now that i've closed it as invalid. just do it Oct 15 14:21:00 damn damn damn damn damn battery flat Oct 15 14:21:39 qwerty12_N810: i'm going to hit you if you ever claim you can't code. Oct 15 14:21:50 ++Stskeeps Oct 15 14:21:59 Stskeeps: we'll never see him in person again Oct 15 14:22:36 lol Stskeeps he cant code Oct 15 14:23:12 go lcuk, needle him into admitting it in a fit of rage ;) Oct 15 14:23:54 does anyone really need any extra proof? ;) Oct 15 14:25:34 hmm, fm radio needs to use RDS to decide channel names Oct 15 14:25:53 it sends out RDS in transmit mode Oct 15 14:25:59 i think thats what it is Oct 15 14:26:06 it shows "NOKIA" as the channel name Oct 15 14:26:26 can be adjusted though, afaik Oct 15 14:26:44 lcuk: nah, it should listen for the RDS name of the tuned channel, talking about the receiver Oct 15 14:26:55 well, don't think "NOKIA" is hardcoded on the firmware ;P Oct 15 14:27:06 Also traffic announcements and stuff would be nice Oct 15 14:27:40 so you think it can't listen to RDS, or just needing more info? Oct 15 14:27:53 it can listen to RDS, just needs to be used Oct 15 14:28:01 http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/15/nokia-n920-leaked-keyboardless-and-harboring-a-capacitive-touch/ Oct 15 14:28:03 LOL! Oct 15 14:28:15 :) Oct 15 14:28:17 there goes engadget credibility Oct 15 14:28:20 n920 will run Bora! Oct 15 14:28:41 engadget fail Oct 15 14:28:57 Damn that's a _huge_ screen Oct 15 14:29:01 would be nice Oct 15 14:29:02 Lol Oct 15 14:29:43 The device would be _tiny_ if that was true. Oct 15 14:29:45 Alas... Oct 15 14:29:59 and 500 megapixel auto-focus lens Oct 15 14:30:02 er... Oct 15 14:30:12 hmm, can't see that url Oct 15 14:30:40 javispedro: 500 GIGApixel Oct 15 14:31:02 ok, i'm looking for testers :) Oct 15 14:31:21 ahaha, they deleted it :) Oct 15 14:31:22 wazd: the "article" actually says 500 megapixels. I can't believe someone read that without thinking wtf wtf wtf wtf. Oct 15 14:31:51 "highlighted the need for a substantial webkit browser optimized kernel" Oct 15 14:32:00 * javispedro 's head implodes . Oct 15 14:32:44 hah Oct 15 14:33:20 I got a bluetooth keyboard, gcc, ocaml and haxe working on the n900 for any c/ocaml/flash development needs. this may be pointless :D Oct 15 14:33:39 as for the rest of the article. where, every poll on tmo said a device without keyboard would be released, and nokia itself said capacitive. Oct 15 14:33:48 s/where/well Oct 15 14:33:48 jjrv, you belong in same category as lcuk.. Oct 15 14:33:48 jjrv: naah. Oct 15 14:33:56 utterly insane. Oct 15 14:33:58 qwerty12_N810: If the Maemo summit is in London next year, would you be there? Oct 15 14:34:10 London! Oct 15 14:34:13 IRC RT of sjgadsby Oct 15 14:34:16 jjrv: It means that all you need is a little solar panel, a phone contract, and you can live in a box and do dev work. Oct 15 14:34:19 * lcuk is far from insane Oct 15 14:34:21 jeremiah: better right in his house :D Oct 15 14:34:26 i just want a simple dev env for my tablet Oct 15 14:34:29 I try to follow up this /opt discussion, what I can not follow is what kinds of persistent memory there is on n900 and their sizes. Does anyone know? Oct 15 14:34:29 wazd: lol Oct 15 14:34:34 lcuk: bonkers Oct 15 14:34:34 jeremiah: to be sure :) Oct 15 14:34:41 wazd: no, he'd say he needs to go to college and will miss half the presentations. Oct 15 14:35:08 qwerty12_N810: ping Oct 15 14:35:17 Stskeeps, one of the things you setup mer for was to allow ondevice development Oct 15 14:35:26 jeremiah: ping Oct 15 14:35:26 VRe: 256MiB OneNAND chip used for bootloader, kernel, and mountpoint for / Oct 15 14:35:32 timeless_mbp: pong Oct 15 14:35:52 lcuk, yes, still insane :P handy sometimes Oct 15 14:35:54 VRe: + 32 GiB eMMC, with 2 partitions: /home 2 GiB ext2, /media/mmc1 (AFAIK) 30 GiB FAT32 Oct 15 14:36:03 javispedro: thanks Oct 15 14:36:08 getting handier by the way Oct 15 14:36:09 day Oct 15 14:36:20 VRe: and /opt bind mount/symlink to /home/opt Oct 15 14:36:41 SpeedEvil, I'm using a device to charge the n900 from aa batteries in case the solar panel doesn't work Oct 15 14:37:14 BONKERS Oct 15 14:37:17 javispedro: huh.. thats a hack :) Oct 15 14:37:48 VRe: yes. if you've been reading the mailing lists you'll have seen the many problems this weird setup is creating and going to create. Oct 15 14:37:49 right, how is Tear for fremantle coming along? Oct 15 14:38:09 * Disconnect is doing the peepee-dance waiting for a tmob-n900 announcement :) anyone wanna swap a 770 and 800 for a 900? they're "special", they were both purchased when compusa screwed up release dates :) Oct 15 14:38:15 javispedro: yeah, and I could not figure out what created the situation but now its more clear Oct 15 14:40:46 Stskeeps: so... Oct 15 14:40:57 i've gotten my package pretty close to polished Oct 15 14:41:08 the only thing i really need is the control panel plugin Oct 15 14:41:13 * timeless_mbp looks for qwerty12_N810 Oct 15 14:43:39 javispedro: is /home/user/MyDocs a symlink to /mnt/mmc1 ? Oct 15 14:44:07 ah, true, I was wrong, FAT32 partition is mounted as /home/user/MyDocs actually. Oct 15 14:44:52 VRe: no Oct 15 14:45:14 yes Oct 15 14:45:27 28 gig Oct 15 14:45:49 mgedmin: do a cat /proc/mounts and you'll find out :) Oct 15 14:45:57 the partition table is kinda weird: 31 metric gigabytes total, 2 for /home, 28 for /home/user/MyDocs, 0.7 for swap Oct 15 14:46:13 * mgedmin did cat /proc/partitions Oct 15 14:46:46 Jaffa: Hermes worked this time through, good work Oct 15 14:47:10 is eMMc or OneNAND faster? Oct 15 14:48:06 OneNAND is said to be faster (see one of the firsts posts in the /opt discussion) Oct 15 14:48:39 sooo many mails :) Oct 15 14:49:03 I'm combining "facts" together, maybe I'll post this when I finnish Oct 15 14:51:01 onenand being slower would could explain why the gpodder takes longer to load Oct 15 14:51:29 onenand uses ubifs which is compressed. Oct 15 14:53:00 javispedro: root or all the partitions Oct 15 14:53:13 VRe: /. Oct 15 14:57:31 wait what? VRe, onenand is faster, not slower Oct 15 14:57:46 VRe, eMMC is slower Oct 15 14:59:30 that's what I said, but compression could potentially slow down some operations (explaining the behaviour he notes with gpodder) Oct 15 14:59:52 javispedro: Speed up Oct 15 14:59:52 ab: is it due to the compression making the writing seem to go faster? Oct 15 15:00:12 VRe, on onenand? Oct 15 15:00:14 for example, gvm is really slow using jffs2 in n810 (basically it spends quite a bit of time compressing 16 MiB file). Oct 15 15:00:17 lardman: even if it is external frame buffer it should be able to drive simple GL at least i would guess? Oct 15 15:00:21 compressed files are being read faster. Oct 15 15:00:22 or because direct writing is just faster - is there hard numbers? Oct 15 15:00:43 VRe: hw is faster. Oct 15 15:02:25 So, OneNAND faster to read (compression helps also), writing faster too (but not if dumping big blobs) ? Oct 15 15:02:45 Stskeeps: certainly Oct 15 15:03:38 Stskeeps: my point was that the PowerVR is probably not limited in any particular way, it's just how fast the framebuffer can send data to the LCD controller that will be the limit Oct 15 15:03:47 but that's always been there Oct 15 15:04:13 it just means we can render 3d data efficiently :) Oct 15 15:05:05 lardman: yeah, even Xomap is suffering under that Oct 15 15:05:42 people seem to keep coming out and saying something along the lines of "the powerVR won't be able to do this that the other because of screen size" Oct 15 15:05:52 but that is probably immaterial Oct 15 15:05:54 i've heard otherwise Oct 15 15:06:10 stability thing does sound plausible though Oct 15 15:07:11 i mean, we probably won't get hardcore 3d interfaces but simple clutter i will be happy with;; Oct 15 15:07:35 people need to see the separation between the rendering to the RAM framebuffer and the speed of screen updates, which are not linked Oct 15 15:07:59 Stskeeps, on n810 compositing will take a hit if its tried Oct 15 15:08:03 well as long as the low level stuff is exposed I guess we can write our own Oct 15 15:08:10 dunno. "hardcode 3d interfaces" might render to a 128x128 area, while clutter will need 800x480 fb updated Oct 15 15:08:12 lcuk: no it won't Oct 15 15:08:40 lcuk: we have compositing in xomap already and it doesn't take a hit.. it has the two buffers still Oct 15 15:08:44 lcuk: compositing is done before the LCD framebuffer, so it won;t take a hit due to the bandwidth issue. It may do due to general processor speed though Oct 15 15:08:45 lardman, to composit, you must first use the CPU to render the surfaces, which must then be converted to textures to then be composited Oct 15 15:08:49 of course it will be a hit Oct 15 15:09:05 and the conversion is probably done in software. Oct 15 15:09:05 ok, but not related to the point at hand Oct 15 15:09:16 its part of the pipeline Oct 15 15:09:27 brb, have to grab a book from the lib Oct 15 15:09:44 either way, we'll see how it runs when we get it Oct 15 15:09:48 * lcuk nods Oct 15 15:09:55 of course i don't expect all transitions to run well Oct 15 15:10:00 will be good to play lotsa javispedro optimized games Oct 15 15:10:07 haha Oct 15 15:10:31 we'll see, i just have stupid ideas in mind which might even be nonsense Oct 15 15:10:34 javispedro, like i said, that single triangle of yours is gonna be useful :P Oct 15 15:10:42 stupid ideas are the best :) Oct 15 15:10:53 I mean really stupid. I still don't have the book. Oct 15 15:11:12 work within the limitations and excellence can occur - look at how good the games for original atari were ;) Oct 15 15:11:22 bbl Oct 15 15:12:03 get a paypal on your blog, ill put towards it Oct 15 15:12:40 lcuk: I don't like vaporware, and I have nothing to sell yet :) Oct 15 15:13:40 lardman: e90 has pretty nice screensize and runs stuff pretty nicely with it's omap2 Oct 15 15:16:18 dneary: curious, who did you run into? Oct 15 15:16:28 (re your business case discussion) Oct 15 15:16:31 Stskeeps: Ah Oct 15 15:16:40 I don't know if that's confidential or not Oct 15 15:16:43 I'll assume not Oct 15 15:16:47 ST Ericsson Oct 15 15:17:01 * mgedmin wishes Conboy had Undo/Redo (with Ctrl+Z/Ctrl+Y) Oct 15 15:17:11 ah, someone with developer boards Oct 15 15:17:45 They're primarily using Android, since many of their clients are going to be using that, but they also want to have an open, customisable distribution which can exploit the hardware, and won't take months to get working properly on their platforms. Previously they used Poky Oct 15 15:17:47 glass: my point exactly, I don't think there will be a real limitation, other than the screen update rate which is not caused by the 3D hw Oct 15 15:18:00 dneary: we're moving in that direction - marvell,foxconn - and TI is opening up on their developer boards too (zoom2, beagle) Oct 15 15:18:09 lardman: By the way, I'm fielding quite a few questions looking for video Oct 15 15:18:19 Stskeeps: Who is "we"? Oct 15 15:18:21 dneary: how do you mean? Oct 15 15:18:29 dneary: in this particular case i mean mer Oct 15 15:18:34 lardman: "when will video be available?" Oct 15 15:18:37 and maemo/mer is a really nice platform to start on arm with - feels just like developing for ubuntu Oct 15 15:18:48 dneary: like recording or decoding? Oct 15 15:18:50 Been asked for 4 specific presentations, and 3 times more generally Oct 15 15:19:02 dneary: I'm in Grenoble at the moment and to be honest the video is terible but I'll do what I can with it at the weekend Oct 15 15:19:05 I'm assuming this is something in YouTube or Vimeo Oct 15 15:19:12 ah I see Oct 15 15:19:17 integrating it Oct 15 15:19:17 JamieBennett: I guess we'll run into each other tomorrow then Oct 15 15:19:20 Weird that Oct 15 15:19:23 * timeless_mbp pokes people Oct 15 15:19:29 ah: your at the ELC? Oct 15 15:19:36 JamieBennett: I live in Lyon Oct 15 15:19:37 * lardman settles down to read a book about FE Oct 15 15:19:47 I was in Grenoble yesterday, and heading tomorrow too Oct 15 15:19:55 dneary: Coming to conference? Oct 15 15:19:57 But today I had way too much to do after the summit Oct 15 15:20:00 JamieBennett: Yup Oct 15 15:20:03 :) Oct 15 15:20:17 dneary: but about professional support.. i have no idea how to handle that Oct 15 15:20:37 Stskeeps: Set up a company :) Oct 15 15:20:43 Or come work for someone else Oct 15 15:20:44 dneary: Back on topic, the video is bad, audio is bad and some is missing. I'll start uploading what I have Saturday night/Sunday Oct 15 15:20:50 (like me?) Oct 15 15:20:53 lol Oct 15 15:20:58 JamieBennett: How bad is bad? Oct 15 15:21:04 Stskeeps: do you know where the sources are for hildon-locale-selector? Oct 15 15:21:12 timeless_mbp: OBS when it's not dead Oct 15 15:21:29 what does ctrl+shift+n do in maemo 5? it blanks the screen (and unblanks when you press it again) Oct 15 15:21:31 10% of the video screen realestate is the speakers, the rest is the curtains/audio is hard to hear e.t.c Oct 15 15:21:34 dneary: ah, i do have a company and my role is part maemo.org part other right now Oct 15 15:21:36 it isn't in a bzr repo? Oct 15 15:22:25 The niche is "we can get up & running faster than OpenEmbedded, and we're more stable" Oct 15 15:22:33 ah, yes Oct 15 15:22:33 That's the niche OH & Poky filled Oct 15 15:22:52 *cough*, ubuntu, *cough* Oct 15 15:22:55 * JamieBennett goes hide Oct 15 15:22:59 JamieBennett: Do you get slides at all? Oct 15 15:23:12 dneary: for the summit I have none Oct 15 15:23:24 JamieBennett: one property of ubuntu we do like, yes Oct 15 15:23:24 JamieBennett: How big is the Ubuntu base install now? Oct 15 15:23:26 I'm hoping they are online somewhere Oct 15 15:23:41 mer is 150mb compressed, which is nice Oct 15 15:23:41 JamieBennett: Only on a case-by-case basis Oct 15 15:23:55 OE can get down to *really* small Oct 15 15:24:05 * JamieBennett hasn't got the specifics of the base install Oct 15 15:24:18 Working system (kernel + console + ssh server) in something like 20MB Oct 15 15:24:22 dneary: If you want *really* small then no, Ubuntu isn't the tool for that Oct 15 15:24:36 archlinux <3 Oct 15 15:24:38 1GB+ systems, its great Oct 15 15:24:58 dneary: anything really embedded, emdebian/OE yes, - anything around 256mb flash/128mb ram and we have a good maemo/mer target Oct 15 15:25:36 JamieBennett: My first Linux desktop had a 256MB hard disk Oct 15 15:25:44 Red Hat 5 Oct 15 15:25:55 dneary: my first had a 40mb disk :P Oct 15 15:26:01 And the OS install only took about 40% of that Oct 15 15:26:08 my first 640mb =( Oct 15 15:26:15 sulx: Youngster Oct 15 15:26:40 dneary: kernel 1.0 on Slackware, I still have the cdrom from 1995. Oct 15 15:27:09 I didn't get started too early - I was 21, and that was at the start of my postgrad. I still remember the processor - it was a 33MHz processor with a turbo button to drive it up to 66MHz Oct 15 15:27:40 And I mostly used it for running XFree & remote apps Oct 15 15:27:51 And the intranet web server Oct 15 15:27:55 :) Oct 15 15:29:01 oooh, turbo button Oct 15 15:29:07 It took me a week to install that Slakware cdrom it had so many issues with my hardware Oct 15 15:29:16 eww Oct 15 15:29:18 * timeless_mbp grumbles Oct 15 15:29:26 why did qwerty have to use GPL3? Oct 15 15:29:43 * slonopotamus overclocked 486 from 66 to 100mhz :) Oct 15 15:30:47 dneary: either way, we're going to expand our vendor offering over the next while, so if you hear more, i'm always up for demoing what we're capable of. Oct 15 15:31:55 Stskeeps: I'm guessing that ST would take your call :) Oct 15 15:33:34 wondering how to implement blue lines in TreeView (just like in contacts application) with pygtk Oct 15 15:34:22 i'm trying to copy contacts application UI Oct 15 15:34:32 lardman: Much better error reporting in git, too :) Oct 15 15:34:52 :) Oct 15 15:35:20 did you tweak it, or was it just poor network connection? Oct 15 15:35:24 traut: interesting, open source? Oct 15 15:35:35 dneary: hey, do you know anything about control panel applets in maemo5? Oct 15 15:35:50 timeless_mbp: same as in diablo Oct 15 15:35:57 ok Oct 15 15:36:01 * timeless_mbp grumbles Oct 15 15:36:08 why did qwerty12_N810 have to use gpl3? :( Oct 15 15:36:15 Stskeeps: just some prototyping. I'll share results if I'll make it Oct 15 15:36:39 timeless_mbp: so nokia couldn't steal his work without paying him large sums of money? ;p Oct 15 15:36:45 lol Oct 15 15:38:39 joys of dealing with chinese engineers: Ding and You. Oct 15 15:38:49 * timeless_mbp grumbles Oct 15 15:39:44 Anyone here using CUDA on an Active Directory Windows machine? Am looking for a reason to not be Active-Directoy-ised Oct 15 15:43:14 slonopotamus: turbo button? Oct 15 15:43:16 Evening all. I don't suppose there is a list of built in /shipped with applications(Current or planned) for maemo 5 is there? Oct 15 15:43:22 whoa, go scrollback Oct 15 15:43:30 do control panel .desktop files have a way to pass arguments to their execute() function? Oct 15 15:44:51 microlith, turbo button! Oct 15 15:45:00 timeless_mbp: If you're looking at my awful CPA code, still, feel free to use whatever license you wish Oct 15 15:45:24 qwerty12: since i only need like 4 lines, i'm just writing from the maemo docs Oct 15 15:45:44 the reboot thing really should be part of the other script :) Oct 15 15:46:23 jeremiah: regarding Maemo Summit in London: Hell yeah! :) Oct 15 15:48:13 ... right, can .desktop files set arguments for control panel applets? :) Oct 15 15:48:19 qwerty12: would be cheap atm if paid for in Euros Oct 15 15:48:41 yeah, I want to visit london Oct 15 15:48:47 now make it in february. Oct 15 15:48:53 ;) Oct 15 15:49:31 58 * This function will be called by the hildon_cp_pluginsavestaet() function. Oct 15 15:49:39 * timeless_mbp loves Nokia Comments (tm) Oct 15 15:49:54 staet? Oct 15 15:50:03 lardman: Yeah, I hear the GBP is doing awesome... Oct 15 15:50:17 zash: sure, it's a word, right? Oct 15 15:50:19 oh wait... Oct 15 15:50:21 yeah, makes going abroad pretty pricey! Oct 15 15:50:50 lardman: I think it's an evil scheme by the British Tourist Board ;) Oct 15 15:51:23 probably, tho Blackpool still needs work ;) Oct 15 15:52:03 qwerty12: Rock on dude! Oct 15 15:52:27 We'll have to push for that next year Oct 15 15:52:27 fix for apt-cache policy brokenness (can't tell extras from extras-devel from extras-testing from sdk repo from tools repo): http://pastie.org/656164 Oct 15 15:53:08 jeremiah: *not* Blackpool Oct 15 15:53:45 mgedmin: upload that to extras-devel please :) Oct 15 15:54:03 heh, I'm not pushing for Blackpool - now Liverpool, *that* would be fun Oct 15 15:54:06 also today I noticed apt-get source libclutter-0.8 downloads the source for clutter 1.0 for some weird reason. Oct 15 15:54:24 javispedro: suggest a descriptive package name please Oct 15 15:54:27 so you need to force the 0.8 source version with apt-get source clutter=0.8 Oct 15 15:54:31 * mgedmin waits for the obvious suggesting Oct 15 15:54:36 apt-cache-fixer Oct 15 15:54:45 whence is good enough. Oct 15 15:54:47 source of the 'whence' python script: http://pastie.org/656168 Oct 15 15:55:07 does a 30-line script deserve its own package? Oct 15 15:55:22 a extras-devel non user/* package, sure. Oct 15 15:56:52 Whoever else wants handwriting recogntion back, vote for this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5484 Oct 15 15:57:08 hi how long does a n900 run more or less? Oct 15 15:57:33 none d-fens_ , n900's dont have legs Oct 15 15:57:42 RST38h: not a deal killer for me (hwr in n8x0 was awful), but still interesting. Oct 15 15:57:53 mgedmin, own garage project, coding guidelines, release cycle, mailing list and support forums. ah, and logo Oct 15 15:58:08 downloadable skins Oct 15 15:58:15 register .com domain Oct 15 15:58:19 javis: Same here, but n8x0 hwr was pretty good (relatively of course) and I have found that many people use it, at least on 5800 Oct 15 15:58:31 well ok Oct 15 15:58:43 RST38h: you clearly haven't used a Palm ;) Oct 15 15:58:55 not saying about manpages, update notifier and bug tracker Oct 15 15:58:55 javis: Palm hwr sucked. Had to learn the moves. Oct 15 15:59:08 the only non-useless hwr I've ever soon. Oct 15 15:59:12 *seen. Oct 15 15:59:13 nobody here of those pre n900 owners? Oct 15 15:59:29 perfect for "on the go" long writings. Oct 15 15:59:36 hm, conboy 0.6.0-alpha9 was pulled from the repos Oct 15 15:59:47 d-fens_: a lot of us here have pre n900s, I'm sure Oct 15 16:00:04 Anyon e know the status of maemo with regards to Kanji/Chinese/Japanese input? Oct 15 16:00:07 mgedmin: my pre is more pre than your pre Oct 15 16:00:22 and could the gestures be changed to avoid the swirl thing to a more intuitive gesture ? Oct 15 16:00:23 yes, the pre-ness of the pre's varies Oct 15 16:00:31 RurouniJones: The n900 chinese version comes with a USB 1.4*1.8m keyboard. Oct 15 16:00:53 There is a chinese version? Hmm that was news to me Oct 15 16:00:54 d-fens_: there's a more intuitive gesture for your convenience: pushing the '+' button Oct 15 16:00:56 mgedmin: so how long does the battery last more or less Oct 15 16:00:58 the USB wire is made to resemble a thick golden chain Oct 15 16:01:04 6 hours of heavy use, more or less Oct 15 16:01:13 I charge mine twice a day Oct 15 16:01:14 3 hours of video Oct 15 16:01:14 and normal use? Oct 15 16:01:23 mine hasn't seen normal use yet Oct 15 16:01:29 It lasts through a day in normal use Oct 15 16:01:31 still new and shiny and alluring and I keep playing with it Oct 15 16:01:33 RST38h, will be fixed in harmattan? :) Oct 15 16:01:37 May even last until the morning but I am not sure Oct 15 16:01:42 * microlith ponders if hildon is compatible with SCIM or has its own input system Oct 15 16:01:51 RST38h, hand recognition, i mean :) Oct 15 16:01:55 That was what I was wondering microlith Oct 15 16:01:59 slonopotamus: Ah, that Oct 15 16:02:04 microlith: own.. but gtk immodules should work Oct 15 16:02:07 slonopotamus: No idea, there are mixed signals Oct 15 16:02:10 hm thats not sufficient for real life Oct 15 16:02:23 dude. My crappy release is #21 in the charts atm Oct 15 16:02:30 I should make it less crappy Oct 15 16:02:40 Right, now I need to bug the Japanese Phone networks to get the N900 integrated Oct 15 16:02:41 anybody else irritated by updates without changelogs? Oct 15 16:02:44 RST38h: 3 hours of video :P Oct 15 16:03:01 RurouniJones: should work on Softbank, dunno to what degree Oct 15 16:03:03 mgedmin: yap, I filed a bug once.. :) Oct 15 16:03:09 javis: But let us give n900 a credit, it can handle BOTH Xvid and A2dp at the same time! Oct 15 16:03:18 that's because of the dsp being powered? I mean, how many hours with the cpu busylooping Oct 15 16:03:20 pwsafe 1.5.5 is out, but I've no clue what changed since 1.5.4a -- the .deb comes without a /usr/share/doc/pwsafe/changelog.Debian file Oct 15 16:03:22 there was a post on the forums a while back about Emobile(?) but their frequency band was questionable Oct 15 16:03:25 microlith: From what I can tell it should work apart from the Softbank email Oct 15 16:03:49 RurouniJones: what's up with softbank's e-mail? Oct 15 16:04:31 Softbank refuse to give out details about how it works for compatibility. If you don't use a softbank branded phone you can get stuffed basically. Oct 15 16:04:45 ah, why does that not surprise me Oct 15 16:04:55 bbl Oct 15 16:05:08 However a new law may come into force in 2011 (speedy) forcing the companies to disclose this information Oct 15 16:05:17 that is speedy Oct 15 16:05:22 and good Oct 15 16:05:52 And since I use my phone for mail more than phoning... Oct 15 16:06:09 hi! I see that texas instrument will release soon the driver for powervr on N800 and N810, doeas it mean that we will run maemo5 on N8xx? Oct 15 16:06:27 RurouniJones: What japanese doesnt use their phone for mailing more tha phoning :P Oct 15 16:06:36 No, it will run Maemo4 in 3D! Oct 15 16:06:48 yes! Oct 15 16:07:02 with clutter like maemo5? Oct 15 16:07:04 bingo: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktop.png (wiki.maemo.org/Mer) Oct 15 16:07:15 it wont be maemo5 but would have many of the same apis. Oct 15 16:07:16 Hehe, quite. I am also iffy about the softbank charges for data usage. If you use their built-in email to to other softbank phones it is free. Oct 15 16:07:48 RurouniJones: e-mail isn't part of a data-plan? Oct 15 16:08:00 RurouniJones: Japanese phone plans are very wierd Oct 15 16:08:02 erm Oct 15 16:08:06 that was to microlith Oct 15 16:08:10 Hehe Oct 15 16:08:12 Stskeeps: this reminds me. Can we still expect Nokia to distribute Fremantle "nokia-apps" for n8x0? Oct 15 16:08:14 I know they're weird, but -that- weird? Oct 15 16:08:16 Anyone has sample code for using proximity sensor? Oct 15 16:08:19 mgedmin: is pwsafe a port of PasswordSafe or something entirely original to maemo? Oct 15 16:08:22 javispedro: who knows.. Oct 15 16:08:31 admittedly, I only had au with a cheapo sanyo phone back in 2003 Oct 15 16:08:33 javispedro: i was surprised to hear it was even in SDK Oct 15 16:08:33 Ive seen interviews with japanese people who have no issue with the fact that their phone bill is like $500 USD Oct 15 16:08:35 Using their built-in email software is free and not counted towards data. senidng to nonsoftbank phones costs but not counted towards data usage (I think) Oct 15 16:08:40 mgedmin: Btw, you are a python guy, aren't you? Oct 15 16:08:51 javispedro: let's focus on the low level stuff first, then we can add what is actually interesting :P Oct 15 16:09:05 RurouniJones: doesnt NTT DoCoMo also use 2100 Mhz? Oct 15 16:09:13 Hydroxide: I think so; it's compatible with Bruce Schneier's PasswordSafe databases anyway Oct 15 16:09:23 RST38h: python yes Oct 15 16:09:25 yeah, cool Oct 15 16:09:27 I am not sure on technical stuff like that. Probably Oct 15 16:09:30 I thought DoCoMo was CDMA Oct 15 16:09:33 Stskeeps: :) Oct 15 16:09:42 microlith: cant be, my phone connected to them when i was in Japan last january Oct 15 16:09:45 haven't played with Python on maemo as much as I feel I ought to Oct 15 16:09:51 and my phone only got 850, 1900, 2100 Mhz Oct 15 16:09:53 Xisdibik: hmm Oct 15 16:10:07 for HSDPA Oct 15 16:10:22 mgedmin: in Debian at least, changelog.Debian.gz is usually for debian packaging changes, though it always contains a stanza for every new debian revision. it's different for packages that are native to Debian without a separate upstream Oct 15 16:10:32 They were all tripping over each other for the iPhone. I ask about the N900 and get a "Whuh? Ooooh Nokia, they don't do Japan" Oct 15 16:10:37 though more often than not i was on Softbanks 3G, as they have more coverage, or stronger coverage or maybe they just have a better deal with AT&T Oct 15 16:11:11 if you can wait it out RurouniJones Oct 15 16:11:15 ill be heading to Japan in January Oct 15 16:11:18 and can tell u how it runs Oct 15 16:11:21 wont know for data charges though Oct 15 16:11:24 as i will be on Tmo USA Oct 15 16:11:29 Ooooo Oct 15 16:11:34 I am in no huge rush. Oct 15 16:11:36 which has contracts with Softbank and NTT DoCoMo Oct 15 16:11:43 * timeless_mbp sighs Oct 15 16:11:52 * timeless_mbp kicks the idiots who "designed" hildon control panel Oct 15 16:12:04 mgedmin: Then you may be interested in automating this: http://handphone-solution.blogspot.com/2009/07/direct-download-for-ovi-maps-30-without.html Oct 15 16:12:12 And that info would be very very useful. I know there are a reasonable number of people interested in the N900 out here and would like that info. Oct 15 16:12:20 mgedmin: Looks like a perfect task for a small Python program Oct 15 16:12:34 RurouniJones: what part of japan are you in? Oct 15 16:12:43 Tokyo Oct 15 16:12:49 I got NTT DoCoMo signal mainly down on Kyushu Oct 15 16:12:53 and Softbank everywhere else Oct 15 16:13:12 RST38h: does that actually work in N900? *relief* Oct 15 16:13:19 javis: surprisingly yes Oct 15 16:13:23 Well I will be in Tokyo in January Oct 15 16:13:24 RurouniJones: where about in tokyo are you? Oct 15 16:13:53 javis: of course, the bug report ("no documented way to download maps offline") has been demoted to enhancement and forgotten but at least there is this Oct 15 16:13:58 I work in Shimbashi and live north of hte city. Oct 15 16:14:03 ahh Oct 15 16:14:16 RST38h: if it can be done so easily it's just a matter of python script/win32 gui app so I'd say let the bug rest. Oct 15 16:14:20 microlith: btw, i voted for the handwriting thing, or will be momentarily rather Oct 15 16:14:35 javis: Basically yes, although I am unsure about how to remove maps Oct 15 16:14:39 RST38h: I'm a very lazy person, unfortunately Oct 15 16:14:50 or wait Oct 15 16:14:51 Xisdibik: handwriting thing? Oct 15 16:14:54 that was RST38h who posted it Oct 15 16:14:55 sorry Oct 15 16:14:55 ;) Oct 15 16:15:02 And since it is 1am here, I better head to bed. Thanks for answering the questions. Need to look at the Maemo SDK this weekend. Oct 15 16:15:18 RurouniJones: yea, its 1:15am there ;) go to sleep Oct 15 16:15:23 handwriting input for kanji would be nice... Oct 15 16:15:33 or for hiragana / katakana Oct 15 16:15:37 or can the n900 do that already? Oct 15 16:15:41 * RurouniJones mutters darkly about 1 hour commutes and sardine trains Oct 15 16:15:45 Toodles Oct 15 16:15:46 RST38h: if I didn't have a local SIM card, I would be very interesting in precaching the maps before I go outdoors Oct 15 16:15:57 anyone here familiar w/ how HAM manages dependencies? Oct 15 16:16:22 mgedmin: well, it usually strikes you when you travel abroad Oct 15 16:16:25 timeless_mbp, like apt, but more cautiously. Oct 15 16:16:35 mgedmin: locally, I have no problem with it, does not eat much traffic Oct 15 16:16:37 timeless_mbp, I think there's a doc outlining it in the CVS. Oct 15 16:16:44 rm_me: moo Oct 15 16:16:44 back in the world of the livimg... Oct 15 16:16:54 *living Oct 15 16:16:54 sup rst Oct 15 16:16:54 so is there any way for me to write package X such that it tries to get Y to also install unless Y's dependencies can't be satisfied? Oct 15 16:16:58 you call THIS a world of living? Oct 15 16:17:04 RST38h: I land in Gothenburg Landvetter airport, pick up an envelope with apartment keys at the information desk, and find a SIM card with a 3g data plan inside Oct 15 16:17:07 imagine my joy Oct 15 16:17:17 short of creating a Z which doesn't do anything and making X depend on Y|Z Oct 15 16:17:34 well, i'm done being passed out from travel and jetlag <_< Oct 15 16:17:42 mgedmin: I land in Thessaloniki airport, and I am fucked. Oct 15 16:17:55 lol Oct 15 16:17:56 mgedmin: Imagine my lack of surprise at this fact. Oct 15 16:18:00 Xisdibik: both, I don't think there's support for any JP input yet Oct 15 16:18:02 timeless_mbp: with ordinary *modern* apt-get you could use Recommends: Y Oct 15 16:18:10 dunno if HAM uses the same logic Oct 15 16:18:17 my guess would be: not Oct 15 16:18:18 i only care about HAM :) Oct 15 16:18:29 then you're fscked. Oct 15 16:18:42 cause it ignores recommends. Oct 15 16:18:44 maybe Z could be a virtual package? Oct 15 16:18:51 RST38h: can u link that handwriting input bugreport again, i cant find it anymore Oct 15 16:19:03 a moment Oct 15 16:19:05 would Depends: Y|Z even try to install Y if it found that Z was already installed? Oct 15 16:19:07 probably not Oct 15 16:19:30 microlith: id love to see something similar to Microsofts IME for Japanese input Oct 15 16:19:33 empty Z package seems to be the only solution Oct 15 16:19:33 Xis: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5484 Oct 15 16:19:36 and that assumes HAM handles Y|Z in the usual way Oct 15 16:20:06 Xisdibik: yeah, always wanted that on Linux but could never find something like it Oct 15 16:20:13 Xisdibik: keep in mind that the hand writing recognition was commercial Oct 15 16:20:17 nokia had to license it Oct 15 16:20:24 and it didn't work well Oct 15 16:20:26 dropping it reduces the cost for the user Oct 15 16:20:33 oh, and yeah, what mgedmin said :) Oct 15 16:20:37 I think keyboard input would be a higher priority Oct 15 16:20:38 The question is about the license terms Oct 15 16:20:39 I suppose it worked acceptably for the people who want it back Oct 15 16:20:50 timeless: i think my phone pulled numbers off your sim, cause i dailed 'voicemail' contact and got some recording in suomi :P Oct 15 16:21:03 rm_you: heh Oct 15 16:21:07 sorry Oct 15 16:21:24 my sim should only have at most voicemail Oct 15 16:21:32 lol, not a problem :P just funny Oct 15 16:21:36 well um Oct 15 16:21:41 technically expensive :o Oct 15 16:21:49 RST38h: what do you mean? Oct 15 16:21:50 microlith: i completely agree, keyboard input would be best Oct 15 16:22:01 hypothetically it was probably a per unit license fee Oct 15 16:22:03 for a binary blob Oct 15 16:22:06 meh, one minute is less than a dollar imo Oct 15 16:22:10 microlith: are you from japan as well or something? Oct 15 16:22:27 Xisdibik: no, just been studying the language and did exchange back in 2003 Oct 15 16:22:28 * mgedmin finally learns the reason for using python 2.5 instead of 2.6 in maemo 5: some silly core sdk package conflicts with 2.6 Oct 15 16:22:30 * GeneralAntilles still wants Xmodmap. :( Oct 15 16:22:37 It may be licensed so that Nokia pays per unit manufactured, per OS version, or unlimited Oct 15 16:22:45 I want PySide or PyQt Oct 15 16:22:50 GeneralAntilles: are you sure? xmodmap is weak, xkb is flexible Oct 15 16:22:52 s/per OS version/per product/ Oct 15 16:22:52 RST38h meant: It may be licensed so that Nokia pays per unit manufactured, per product, or unlimited Oct 15 16:22:59 microlith: ah ok, ive been studying on my own, and have been there in 2009 2008 2007 and 1988 Oct 15 16:23:02 mgedmin, well, I want to change some keybindings. Oct 15 16:23:06 not for exchange though Oct 15 16:23:09 just for sighseeing Oct 15 16:23:11 Xisdibik: big jump there :) Oct 15 16:23:13 mgedmin, whatever allows me to do that conveniently and easily is what I want. Oct 15 16:23:14 Which will of course determine how much extra dough it costs Oct 15 16:23:17 GeneralAntilles: so do I ;) Oct 15 16:23:25 1988 = my dad gave lectures, other 3 are my own trips ;) Oct 15 16:23:25 GeneralAntilles: "conveniently" is hard :( Oct 15 16:23:29 RST38h: the bottom line is that it almost certainly added some cost Oct 15 16:23:33 and it didn't work well Oct 15 16:23:34 Xisdibik: cool Oct 15 16:23:36 yeah would love to bind in tab and pipe Oct 15 16:23:39 plus there's maintenance overhead Oct 15 16:23:47 The people on -developers keep throwing unrelated "solutions" Oct 15 16:23:51 and maybe just bind my bottom row of keys over one to the right Oct 15 16:23:52 looking for a way to get back myself, refuse to teach english Oct 15 16:23:55 GeneralAntilles: Did you ever see the name i voted on for the AdBlocker ? Oct 15 16:24:05 GeneralAntilles: I unsubscribed from -developers Oct 15 16:24:08 lol Oct 15 16:24:09 way too much noise Oct 15 16:24:10 microlith: im going back to see friends, thats my excuse ;) Oct 15 16:24:16 zerojay: did you get my strings? Oct 15 16:24:16 and jrocha keeps insisting all anybody could ever need was the symbol popup! Oct 15 16:24:20 talking is more fun than doing Oct 15 16:24:23 sadly Oct 15 16:24:31 crashanddie, it's still vaguely useful for information and pulse keeping. Oct 15 16:24:36 crashanddie, -users, however. Oct 15 16:24:37 :shudder: Oct 15 16:24:40 Xisdibik: totally usable, friend of mine from college moved there in march to teach english in Ashikagi Oct 15 16:24:47 -community is pretty good Oct 15 16:24:54 timeless, i asked for you to msg me the repo again. not at home now. Oct 15 16:24:59 * timeless_mbp wonders how to get hildon-control-panel-dev Oct 15 16:25:06 anyone know if a pandora music app is in the works? Oct 15 16:25:17 zerojay: i think GeneralAntilles didnt see my messages ;( :P Oct 15 16:25:23 BTW, if you absolutely positively hate the ugly current address display in N900 Nokia Maps, vote here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5332 Oct 15 16:25:24 timeless_mbp: are you not on the Nokia network? No internal SCM you can use? Oct 15 16:25:32 Xisdibik, I'll "Shield of Antilles" your ass. Oct 15 16:25:43 lol Oct 15 16:25:45 Not sure if it will help anything, but at least we will let Nokia know Oct 15 16:25:51 haha Oct 15 16:25:52 crashanddie: i'm not on the nokia network Oct 15 16:25:58 and i don't want to vpn in if i can avoid it :) Oct 15 16:25:59 Xisdibik: The worrying part is that he will do so with pleasure Oct 15 16:26:04 mgedmin, tried Xmodmap, the only result was either no effect or dead keys. Oct 15 16:26:07 but yes, i'm in my nokia office building Oct 15 16:26:17 mgedmin, before that I tried modifying the symbols file and there was absolutely no effect. Oct 15 16:26:22 mgedmin, so, I'm not sure what's left. Oct 15 16:26:37 GeneralAntilles: did you reboot or run xkbcomp after editing the symbols file? Oct 15 16:26:39 crashanddie: remember that what i'm trying to do isn't really nokia-ish, i don't want to cheat Oct 15 16:26:43 and i shouldn't need to cheat Oct 15 16:26:46 mgedmin, rebooted. Oct 15 16:27:05 GeneralAntilles: and when you say Xmodmap, do you mean the file ~/.Xmodmap, or do you mean running the xmodmap application (if so, where did you get it?) Oct 15 16:27:13 timeless_mbp: What is stopping you from grabbing it from the public SDK repository? :) Oct 15 16:27:20 timeless_mbp: my (professional) skype status message is: "If at first you don't succeed: CHEAT!" Oct 15 16:27:21 I edited the file and ran the application. Oct 15 16:27:29 I got it from, hrm, somewhere. Oct 15 16:27:32 One of the repos. Oct 15 16:27:43 qwerty12: the fact that Mer doesn't seem to have it by default :) Oct 15 16:27:46 qwerty12 has an xev that doesn't suck. Oct 15 16:28:01 \o/ lardman|gone Oct 15 16:28:07 tab-fail Oct 15 16:28:12 hey Oct 15 16:28:45 addons for microb still might require a few reboots to get them working. bleh. Oct 15 16:28:49 timeless_mbp: Ah, I thought this was Fremantle. Just install it from the SDK repository anyway; it only depends on libhildon1-dev and Mer won't be using anything newer than what is available in the SDK Oct 15 16:28:58 [Nokia's]marketshare has tumbled again, down to the 35 percent, from 41 percent last quarter. It used to be over 50 Oct 15 16:29:14 qwerty12: the target is fremantle Oct 15 16:29:24 but i don't want to setup scratchbox, i use mer as my scratchbox Oct 15 16:29:32 qwerty12: helpmaster, do you know where I can find PySide or PyQt? Oct 15 16:29:40 RST38h, they're just setting up for an even more impressive recovery. *g* Oct 15 16:30:02 timeless_mbp: Well, yeah, like I said: It only depends on libhildon1-dev Oct 15 16:30:13 GeneralAntilles: mind running my whence script (http://pastie.org/656168) and telling me where you got xmodmap from? Oct 15 16:30:19 timeless_mbp: So, I can't see what would be stopping you from taking that deb and installing it in Mer Oct 15 16:30:23 not even hildon-controlpanel-dev ? Oct 15 16:30:31 oh Oct 15 16:30:39 you're saying control panel depends on hildon1 Oct 15 16:30:41 gotcha Oct 15 16:30:55 mgedmin, think it was here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Arepository.maemo.org+x11-utils&aq=f&oq=&aqi= Oct 15 16:31:04 crashanddie: Think all Qt stuff in in extras-devel. Lemme take a look... Oct 15 16:31:06 *is Oct 15 16:31:08 I just grabbed the .debs. Oct 15 16:31:36 It's not installed now, I did my testing on 39-9. Oct 15 16:31:44 GeneralAntilles: oh, the package name is x11-utils! thanks! Oct 15 16:31:54 crashanddie: No, I can't find either, sorry Oct 15 16:32:04 qwerty12: I found deb http://www.pyside.org/apt/maemo-armel / Oct 15 16:32:08 General: Yes, their share is branching up into imaginary plane... Oct 15 16:33:47 wow the n920 looks huge o_0 Oct 15 16:33:55 VDVsx, and Bora. Oct 15 16:34:07 It probably has nothing to do with N920 Oct 15 16:34:20 GeneralAntilles, hehe, yeah Oct 15 16:34:28 at least the should put diablo there Oct 15 16:34:33 *they Oct 15 16:34:47 You would've thought after the "first N900 picture" that people would be able to tell what is Bora, and what is from the SDK... Oct 15 16:35:11 Fuck, I've never used Bora but I can recognise it easily Oct 15 16:35:20 GeneralAntilles: xmodmap is not in x11-utils Oct 15 16:35:37 mgedmin, it totally was the last time I installed it. . . . Oct 15 16:35:44 humm, this n920 seems more a Nokla than a Nokia Oct 15 16:35:53 qwerty12, any word about that ? Oct 15 16:35:53 Hrm, maybe x11-apps? Oct 15 16:36:00 GeneralAntilles: version? I got 7.4+2-1maemo3 from fremantle/tools Oct 15 16:36:08 n920? Oct 15 16:36:12 link or it didn't happen Oct 15 16:36:15 GeneralAntilles: dpkg -S `which xmodmap` Oct 15 16:36:15 Where the hell did I get xmodmap? Oct 15 16:36:20 crashanddie, http://www.imobile365.net/acticles/reviews-and-news/5-nokia/3573-n920.html Oct 15 16:36:20 ok, so I'm about to move my package to the autobuilder, where will it end up? Oct 15 16:36:25 qwerty12, I don't have it installed anymore. Oct 15 16:36:28 Ah Oct 15 16:36:40 lardman: Blackpool (knowing your packaging skills) Oct 15 16:36:48 crashanddie: it hasn't happened Oct 15 16:36:54 Did I get it here? http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/xmodmap/ Oct 15 16:37:08 OS2007? aieee Oct 15 16:37:16 qwerty12: oi! Oct 15 16:42:37 mgedmin, no effect modifying symbols again. Oct 15 16:42:52 I plan to experiment with this Oct 15 16:43:08 btw does anybody know where the layout of the symbol palette you get with fn+ctrl is defined? Oct 15 16:44:46 Pavlov, are you around Oct 15 16:45:21 Hi Oct 15 16:45:21 woops Oct 15 16:45:25 Stuck with git Oct 15 16:45:41 problem while installing pyside: no space left on device Oct 15 16:45:42 I just did a git pull --rebase and got "not on any branch" type error messages Oct 15 16:45:47 Anyone know how to fix that? Oct 15 16:46:08 (ie - I just want to be on the equivalent of the HEAD and pull everything down) Oct 15 16:47:09 I don't even know how to find out what repository I pulled from (equiv. of svn info) Oct 15 16:47:30 dneary, if you have no mods on your side and are just trying to browse Oct 15 16:47:41 dneary: git rebase --onto whateverbranch Oct 15 16:47:42 it might be easier to just restart Oct 15 16:47:52 lcuk: I have evidently pulled from somewhere at some stage Oct 15 16:48:00 I think I have a local edit too Oct 15 16:48:18 crashanddie: How do I find outt what branches there are? Oct 15 16:49:00 dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git status Oct 15 16:49:00 # Not currently on any branch. Oct 15 16:49:00 # Untracked files: Oct 15 16:49:00 # (use "git add ..." to include in what will be committed) Oct 15 16:49:00 # Oct 15 16:49:01 # doc/.visual_index.xml.swp Oct 15 16:49:03 nothing added to commit but untracked files present (use "git add" to track) Oct 15 16:49:07 dneary: git branch Oct 15 16:49:22 dneary: will show the branches available and highlight the active one with an asterisk Oct 15 16:50:01 dneary: git branch -r will show remote branches as well Oct 15 16:50:10 dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git branch Oct 15 16:50:10 * (no branch) Oct 15 16:50:12 make that git branch -r/-a to see remote/all branches Oct 15 16:50:30 dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git branch -a Oct 15 16:50:30 * (no branch) Oct 15 16:50:30 origin/2.1.72 Oct 15 16:50:30 origin/hildon-2-2 Oct 15 16:50:30 origin/master Oct 15 16:50:31 origin/offscreen-viewport Oct 15 16:50:33 origin/window-menu-indicator Oct 15 16:50:35 OK Oct 15 16:50:40 which only means you dont track any branch yet Oct 15 16:50:46 So I need to do a git pull --rebase origin/master Oct 15 16:51:07 pastebin.com Oct 15 16:51:23 GeneralAntilles: Is that a git documentation resource? Oct 15 16:51:28 mmm, pastebin Oct 15 16:51:37 qwerty12: hmm, fail, I feel I must blame you :p Oct 15 16:51:38 No, but it's nicer than pasting lots of lines into the chat. ;) Oct 15 16:51:59 "git checkout -b my_local_branch origin/my_remote_branch" maybe? Oct 15 16:51:59 GeneralAntilles, bah irc is a pastebin Oct 15 16:52:09 lcuk, feel free to try me. :P Oct 15 16:52:11 Hrmmm Oct 15 16:52:20 I was told that git pull --rebase was good practice Oct 15 16:52:21 you probably already did a git fetch, to get all the objects Oct 15 16:52:24 ah Oct 15 16:52:26 sure GeneralAntilles, why not :D Oct 15 16:52:42 * qwerty12 wonders about lardman's reading skills: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libchamplain_0.4.0-1/summary.log Oct 15 16:52:57 jo Oct 15 16:52:59 dneary: yes, once you track a branch it probably is Oct 15 16:53:06 ah no, thinking about libdmtx Oct 15 16:53:12 hi lardman Oct 15 16:53:17 hey woglinde Oct 15 16:53:26 but when I do that I get this message: http://pastebin.ca/1622366 Oct 15 16:53:47 mikhas: But git doesn't remember what branch I'm on? Oct 15 16:54:00 btw GeneralAntilles http://maemo.pastebin.com/ is better than a generic Oct 15 16:54:01 I just did a git rebase Oct 15 16:54:25 * lcuk has seen folks using it more and more Oct 15 16:54:37 it does? if you want to read the binary version: cat .git/config it shows what you currently track Oct 15 16:54:51 mainly because it comes up in FF when I start typing maemo ;) Oct 15 16:54:52 http://ktown.kde.org/~zrusin/git/git-cheat-sheet-large.png Oct 15 16:54:58 lol Oct 15 16:55:02 just a hint ;) Oct 15 16:55:17 * qwerty12 clears lardman's history Oct 15 16:55:23 my favorit is git -i rebase Oct 15 16:55:38 (after jotting down the porn links first) Oct 15 16:56:22 dneary, just try to checkout a remote branch first, with "git checkout -b my_local_branch origin/my_remote_branch" Oct 15 16:56:24 wat! security framework is dualbooting? Oct 15 16:56:45 perhaps you want to use "master" and "origin/master" for the branches, too Oct 15 16:56:57 I don't understand why git rebase origin/master doesn't just set the current default branch to origin/master :( Oct 15 16:57:24 it probably could do that, but no idea how =/ Oct 15 16:57:39 mikhas: And I don't understand why I have to create a local branch to track a remote source Oct 15 16:58:01 I don't want to use it as DVCS, I want to use it as centralised VCS, and I was told I could Oct 15 16:58:55 yeah, I know what you mean. but one local branch is the bare minimum =) Oct 15 16:58:57 No, I don't get it Oct 15 16:59:05 WSJ shits all over Europe: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574473543586270418.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular Oct 15 16:59:14 So - in my head, the steps to getting set up for git are: Oct 15 16:59:20 1. I say what repository I want to use Oct 15 16:59:26 * Solarion goes to get the free lunch Oct 15 16:59:28 2. I pull sources from a named branch Oct 15 16:59:31 dneary it dont work as centralized as svn Oct 15 16:59:31 Doine Oct 15 16:59:52 But in reality, what I need to do is: Oct 15 16:59:58 you have to pull commit and push Oct 15 17:00:03 1. Say what remote repository I want to use Oct 15 17:00:05 and rebase sometimes Oct 15 17:00:24 2. Say what branch I want to use, and create a local branch based off it Oct 15 17:00:35 3. Check out remote branch to local branch Oct 15 17:00:37 and the cool think is you can track serval repos in local branches Oct 15 17:00:51 whereas you can combine step 2 and 3, yes Oct 15 17:00:52 cherry pick only some patches Oct 15 17:01:02 do that with svn or cvs Oct 15 17:01:10 Then rebase to the remote named branch every time I want to update Oct 15 17:01:15 I like how the clients for iPhone always cost money when they're free for every other platform. Oct 15 17:01:16 steps to getting set up for git are: 1. install hg, to pick a git gateway :) Oct 15 17:01:23 s/to/2./ Oct 15 17:01:24 timeless_mbp meant: steps 2. getting set up for git are: 1. install hg, to pick a git gateway :) Oct 15 17:01:27 I can combine git branch and git checkout? Oct 15 17:01:30 oh brother Oct 15 17:01:32 * timeless_mbp gives up Oct 15 17:01:32 yes Oct 15 17:01:33 one cool think is stash and stash -apply Oct 15 17:01:38 the little -b after checkout does that Oct 15 17:01:45 dneary yes Oct 15 17:01:48 OK Oct 15 17:01:54 And once I have a source tree Oct 15 17:01:56 there are twi ways Oct 15 17:02:04 (I have obviously got one, and it's a git repository) Oct 15 17:02:06 one create branch then co Oct 15 17:02:10 technically, you would have to say "-t" as well, but luckily that is the default (to track the branch) Oct 15 17:02:14 other does both step at same time Oct 15 17:02:17 what have I missed? Oct 15 17:02:44 hmm, I've failed to build due to libtool not being there - should I add a dep for that then? Oct 15 17:02:59 lardman where? Oct 15 17:03:01 Woo, awesome random Comcast reset time! Oct 15 17:03:02 ~ping Oct 15 17:03:03 ~pong Oct 15 17:03:10 GeneralAntilles ~boo Oct 15 17:03:10 RST38h: i like the wsj article Oct 15 17:03:30 * RST38h considers wsj article bitching Oct 15 17:03:33 hm odd, doesnt git clone create a local master branch, tracking origin/master, automatically? Oct 15 17:03:35 Buggery Oct 15 17:03:41 woglinde: autobuilder Oct 15 17:03:44 timeless_mbp: Of course. You are American ;P Oct 15 17:03:48 (which of course does not mean EU isn't going to shit) Oct 15 17:03:59 Apparently I've created some local object called object/master, and now object/master is an aùbiguous label Oct 15 17:04:03 lardman yes you should Oct 15 17:04:07 This is complicated Oct 15 17:04:09 ugh Oct 15 17:04:17 dnaery only in the beginning Oct 15 17:04:24 woglinde: cool, thanks Oct 15 17:04:30 woglinde: That's the only time that simplicity matters Oct 15 17:04:50 can we agree that you probably fetched your repo the wrong way then? Oct 15 17:05:06 dneary as I said normaly you only need branch, pull, push, rebase, merge Oct 15 17:05:15 and checkout Oct 15 17:05:22 mikhas: we can agree that his tool let him do something stupid Oct 15 17:05:25 which is a fault of the tool :) Oct 15 17:05:27 dneary hm yes Oct 15 17:05:39 And clone Oct 15 17:05:42 and revert, and format-patch, and am, and cherry-pick, and ... =) Oct 15 17:05:45 woglinde: surely you need commit? Oct 15 17:05:46 OK Oct 15 17:05:47 clone only ones Oct 15 17:05:54 timeless_mbp, I wont deny that Oct 15 17:05:56 timeless sure Oct 15 17:06:03 git branch -d origin/master deleted my local one, and I think I'm now OK Oct 15 17:06:09 good Oct 15 17:06:17 dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git branch Oct 15 17:06:17 * (no branch) Oct 15 17:06:17 local Oct 15 17:06:17 timeless otheriwise you dont get something into your branch Oct 15 17:06:31 git checkout is nice now Oct 15 17:06:38 dneary as I said normaly you only need ... Oct 15 17:06:41 but I still have that * beside (no branch) Oct 15 17:06:46 timless tse tse Oct 15 17:06:55 Shouldn't "git branch local origin/master" have fixed that? Oct 15 17:07:07 * timeless_mbp chuckles Oct 15 17:07:12 dneary now git checkout local Oct 15 17:07:18 hm ah right Oct 15 17:07:34 dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git checkout local Oct 15 17:07:34 Switched to branch "local" Oct 15 17:07:34 dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git pull --rebase Oct 15 17:07:34 Current branch local is up to date. Oct 15 17:07:40 woot Oct 15 17:07:44 OK, seems like we're getting somewhere Oct 15 17:07:51 git status? Oct 15 17:08:10 dneary hehe Oct 15 17:08:21 I have a .swp file from an old edit, otherwise clean Oct 15 17:08:30 congrats Oct 15 17:08:35 * lardman looks for Quake 3 files Oct 15 17:08:36 now you can start Oct 15 17:08:37 phew, that was hard Oct 15 17:08:38 Now... can someone explain to me the difference between push & commit, please? Oct 15 17:08:51 dneary: commit is a local operation Oct 15 17:08:53 commit puts changes into your local brunch Oct 15 17:08:54 And also the user interface for the remote maintainer when I commit something to his tree? Oct 15 17:08:58 push: push a set of changes/commit to the remote repo Oct 15 17:09:03 push is for upstream repo Oct 15 17:09:05 push is an operation that takes local changes and sends them somewhere else Oct 15 17:09:07 I assume he gets to accept or reject it Oct 15 17:09:10 luckily, there is --dry-run for push Oct 15 17:09:11 *g* Oct 15 17:09:12 dneary: no Oct 15 17:09:13 very helpful Oct 15 17:09:30 dneary: DVCS is fairly cooperative Oct 15 17:09:36 timeless_mbp: Then there must be some kind of access control to say who can push and who can't? Oct 15 17:09:38 if someone allows you to push, they trust you Oct 15 17:09:42 dneary for every push you should pull --rebase Oct 15 17:09:48 okay Oct 15 17:09:50 dinner now Oct 15 17:09:50 typically the ACL is managed by SSH accounts Oct 15 17:09:52 dneary, usually your public ssh key Oct 15 17:09:53 or HTTPS AUTH Oct 15 17:09:55 OK Oct 15 17:10:04 till later Oct 15 17:10:05 dneary: but basically Oct 15 17:10:13 as long as i have 2 repos that are related and nearly synced Oct 15 17:10:19 So if I have pull access to an git+ssh tree, I automatically have push access? Oct 15 17:10:19 one that you can munge and one that you can't Oct 15 17:10:26 not necessarily Oct 15 17:10:32 it depends on how the system is configured Oct 15 17:10:35 but typically, yes Oct 15 17:10:38 nope, one could be public, hte other private Oct 15 17:10:57 h-a-m really needs to be sped up. Oct 15 17:10:59 ... it's ok for me to let you dump garbage into one, because i could destroy stuff and push my stuff back Oct 15 17:11:03 GeneralAntilles: no kidding Oct 15 17:11:04 It's silly how long it takes to render lists. Oct 15 17:11:05 But the upstream tree owner can see when I commit something, right? Oct 15 17:11:12 locally? Oct 15 17:11:14 nope Oct 15 17:11:15 dneary: you can configure triggers Oct 15 17:11:18 only after you push Oct 15 17:11:19 but in short, not really Oct 15 17:11:43 mostly people can take their own repository and ask for a list of things that the one you changed has that they don't Oct 15 17:12:00 they can choose to not take them, or to take them, or if they have local access to the repo, they can attack the repo Oct 15 17:12:02 So, I was expecting some kind of user interface where the upstream guy got a bunch of patches, and manually reviewed & accepted or rejected each one Oct 15 17:12:05 (strip, rebase) Oct 15 17:12:21 dneary: there are approaches like that Oct 15 17:12:24 one is hg patchbomb Oct 15 17:12:32 But it appears that's not how it works at all Oct 15 17:12:34 where you take local commits and it converts them into email messages Oct 15 17:12:46 and then someone looks at the email they received and pushes them into their own repo Oct 15 17:12:54 another approach is mozilla's try servers Oct 15 17:12:59 Hrm, where's a dummy maemo-select-menu-location so I can install Hava Player? Oct 15 17:13:01 How does the kernel handle it when (say) someone wants to submit a patch to a subsystem maintainer? Oct 15 17:13:05 where a large number of people can send lots of garbage to a repo Oct 15 17:13:23 My mind is in knots - I just don't see how I do basic stuff as a git user Oct 15 17:13:26 and someone can look and see if any of the garbage wasn't really so bad and then pull it in and merge it into a canonical tree Oct 15 17:13:27 dneary, they dont push Oct 15 17:13:34 they pull from trusted repos Oct 15 17:13:35 they tend to use email Oct 15 17:13:41 at some levels Oct 15 17:13:44 and pulling Oct 15 17:14:04 you would say "my repo is http://dneary/foo.git" Oct 15 17:14:06 and emails, yes Oct 15 17:14:06 mikhas: OK, so I can pull individual patches or a group of patches? Oct 15 17:14:06 ok, time to go home, cya later Oct 15 17:14:06 yes, that is actually the best part Oct 15 17:14:12 and someone would go pull from there and consider it Oct 15 17:14:13 mikhas: Let's say a feature has been under review for a while, and has gone through half a dozen changes Oct 15 17:14:44 Is there an easy way for me to group the half a dozen changesets together into one changeset that I can submit to a maintainer, or allow him to pull in one go? Oct 15 17:14:44 dneary: in general w/ dvcs you *usually* take all of the changesets (commits) and pull them together into a repo you have Oct 15 17:15:01 but you can then decide to do all sorts of random things to them before you publish something else elsewhere Oct 15 17:15:27 mostly you send someone the changeset id for the last changeset in a series Oct 15 17:15:31 yes, git rebase -i HEAD~n (where n is the amount of commits to go back), for example Oct 15 17:15:36 each changeset encodes the changeset it is based on Oct 15 17:15:59 mikhas: that's folding, no? Oct 15 17:16:10 i presume dneary wants a series (more of an export) Oct 15 17:16:17 dneary asked specifically for one commit Oct 15 17:16:31 export is git format-patch, basically Oct 15 17:16:47 * GeneralAntilles wonders if he still has that Hava engineer's email. . . . Oct 15 17:16:59 oh, he said group into one changeset Oct 15 17:17:01 dneary: so um Oct 15 17:17:14 in general you shouldn't be folding changesets together Oct 15 17:17:20 it's better to send them as a series of changesets Oct 15 17:17:35 So you basically encourage developers to have a branch per feature Oct 15 17:17:36 ? Oct 15 17:17:37 but the expected format will depend on the recipient's goals Oct 15 17:17:49 or wishes or something Oct 15 17:18:01 'branches' in dvcs are funny things Oct 15 17:18:08 But the short version is: Oct 15 17:18:09 in general, any commit you make is a branch Oct 15 17:18:10 well, git format-patch allows you this neat trick: git format-patch HEAD~2 --stdout Oct 15 17:18:19 which you can then redirect into a single file Oct 15 17:18:40 (2 being the amount of commits to be considered, from head, in this example) Oct 15 17:18:57 If someone lets me push, they trust me unconditionally, otherwise I can publish individual changeset IDs and let them pull individual changesets, and it's my responsibility to ensure that they merge with his tree? Oct 15 17:19:04 dneary, feature branches, if you embrace DVCS, git format-patch, if you prefer single branches Oct 15 17:19:27 both works reasonably well for me Oct 15 17:19:30 dneary: they don't have to trust you uncoditionally Oct 15 17:19:37 they can let you push to a sandbox Oct 15 17:19:44 and then review or pull from it Oct 15 17:19:55 Honestly? Seems like work, all this stuff Oct 15 17:19:57 bah, my typing sucks today Oct 15 17:20:03 it's like perl Oct 15 17:20:06 You mean tipping? Oct 15 17:20:09 dozens of ways to do similar things Oct 15 17:20:13 that is why pulling is the preferred way, let them push to a public repo first Oct 15 17:20:15 timeless_mbp: I know a perl joke Oct 15 17:20:17 dneary: i'm in finland, i don't tip :) Oct 15 17:20:22 is there a light sensor api for the N900? Oct 15 17:20:30 You know the name of the perl obfuscator? Oct 15 17:20:34 vi Oct 15 17:20:35 Bleh, stupid hildon help Oct 15 17:20:43 GeneralAntilles: not quite dead yet? Oct 15 17:20:44 and track that repo, too. but then you are fully emerged in DVCS land, which you didnt want to begin with Oct 15 17:20:57 timeless_mbp, Hava Player depends on it so wont run. Oct 15 17:21:02 nice Oct 15 17:21:08 Going to try to talk them into updating. Oct 15 17:22:05 " and it's my responsibility to ensure that they merge with his tree?" <= this is precisely why pushing can be "bad", I guess Oct 15 17:26:44 to fix a package, must I re-upload the whole lot? Oct 15 17:26:50 in Extras builder Oct 15 17:27:49 * lardman sends it off for a second try Oct 15 17:29:37 What, no-one liked my perl joke, Oct 15 17:30:31 dneary: ah, missed the vi on the second line Oct 15 17:31:44 * timeless_mbp gives up Oct 15 17:32:19 dneary, too old, too old Oct 15 17:33:50 ah no, need to write a Makefile :( Oct 15 17:33:55 OK - so out of 3, 1 knew it already, and the other 2 didn't get it Oct 15 17:33:56 Great Oct 15 17:34:12 You've just reinforced what I said during my lightning talk, guys - I'm not funny. Oct 15 17:34:25 3?! 385 you mean ;) Oct 15 17:34:43 lardman3 who responded Oct 15 17:34:52 ah ok Oct 15 17:34:53 I'm assuming the others were just not paying attention Oct 15 17:35:12 or perhaps the voter apathy is constant ;) Oct 15 17:35:53 I think you were pretty funny, even with your LT Oct 15 17:35:56 which was actually great Oct 15 17:36:03 as it showcased what you preached Oct 15 17:36:14 dneary: Your role as maemo.org docmaster is wasted. Stand-up comedy is the career path that you should take Oct 15 17:36:21 shh, don't build him up too much Oct 15 17:37:00 fine, going to be less honest next time =p Oct 15 17:37:09 qwerty12_N810: Let me just go resign, just after I finish this next task... hope I don't forget Oct 15 17:37:09 lol Oct 15 17:37:20 dneary: :p Oct 15 17:37:41 mikhas: Thanks! Appreciate it. That lightning talk took quite a bit of time - if I'd messed up, it would have been both tragic & ironic Oct 15 17:38:03 I don't know if showcasing what I preached made it better or not though Oct 15 17:38:14 It's interesting that Nokia's support timeframes _seem_ to be getting shorter Oct 15 17:38:22 GeneralAntilles: It Oct 15 17:38:29 's a phone now... *cough* Oct 15 17:38:32 hmm, interesting error from the auto builder: "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables Oct 15 17:38:32 " Oct 15 17:38:33 after they said they wouldn't let what happened to the 770 happen again. Oct 15 17:38:42 that's why I ignore x86 Oct 15 17:38:45 qwerty12_N810, yet another reason I didn't want the cellular hardware in there. Oct 15 17:39:31 lardman: Of course it can't Oct 15 17:39:43 lardman: The linker creates executables Oct 15 17:40:20 dneary: don't look at me, that's the fault of the configure script writer ;) Oct 15 17:40:56 How did we get back to porting Morrowind to Maemo 5 again. . . . Oct 15 17:41:41 lardman: Fremantle builder does not need VFP flags, as it is enabled by default; and for Diablo, the autobuilder exports $DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS in the ARMEL builder only for doing just that Oct 15 17:42:00 qwerty12_N810: ok, thanks Oct 15 17:42:46 * lardman curses Ubuntu for locking up the taskbar/etc Oct 15 17:42:49 * qwerty12_N810 takes RST38h's drugs away. You should not be typing under the influence of them Oct 15 17:46:41 In my gtk app for maemo5 written in C, what's the best way of determining if a connection to the internet is up, and of noticing if it drops or connects? Are there signals that can be connected inside the app for connection events? Oct 15 17:47:00 Shapeshifter: libconic Oct 15 17:47:34 qwerty12_N810: perfect, thanks! Oct 15 17:51:37 hi Oct 15 17:53:05 it s dear a wai to make internet radio todai plug in to play mp3 Oct 15 17:53:07 ? Oct 15 17:59:51 no Oct 15 18:02:03 is ssh from Maemo Extras, official, or other? Oct 15 18:02:53 other official Oct 15 18:03:08 where is it from precisely? Oct 15 18:03:24 qwerty12_N810: with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS, can I stick CFLAGS="" in there, or is it added to CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS? Oct 15 18:03:25 from the guy nentioned as maintainer in its package details? Oct 15 18:03:51 RST38h, well, he's a Nokian. ;) Oct 15 18:03:56 But it's not an official package, no. Oct 15 18:03:57 :) Oct 15 18:04:00 lardman: maemo-policy has the lowdown Oct 15 18:04:43 it is a standard openssh compiled for maemo Oct 15 18:04:54 8th of May 2008 sound right for the date of said doc? Oct 15 18:20:03 * crashanddie_ is back Oct 15 18:24:12 * lcuk gets crashanddie_ a pint Oct 15 18:24:32 cheers Oct 15 18:24:57 actually, i'm on baileys and milk Oct 15 18:26:42 ~lart people's quoting habits on maemo-* Oct 15 18:26:43 * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking people's quoting habits on maemo-*'s head off Oct 15 18:27:03 infobot, nearly Oct 15 18:27:06 oh, great, I was afraid this channel was all uptight and strict Oct 15 18:27:14 * Arkenklo breathes out Oct 15 18:27:39 who you calling uptight? Oct 15 18:27:46 Arkenklo, the channel's only formal when Quim is in da place Oct 15 18:27:47 ;) Oct 15 18:28:01 Arkenklo, rest of the time, that wanker of a GeneralAntilles keeps us all informal Oct 15 18:28:07 thanks for the warning :D Oct 15 18:28:09 heh Oct 15 18:28:39 Arkenklo, if you're not having fun, you get the boot. :P Oct 15 18:28:59 btw, that webcam skype gave away at the summit isn't half as bad as I thought Oct 15 18:29:10 I have the feeling I'm going to like this channel Oct 15 18:29:18 Arkenklo, don't go into private messaging with penguinbait, he has no senses of discretion. Oct 15 18:29:30 hah Oct 15 18:29:34 lcuk: I don't see any problem with that? Oct 15 18:29:43 i didnt either until my wife hit the roof Oct 15 18:29:49 don't go into private messaging with penguinbait, he has no senses. <- there, fixed that for you Oct 15 18:30:07 don't go into private massaging with penguinbait. Oct 15 18:30:08 did you have a good time at summit, lcuk Oct 15 18:30:09 good then that I don't have any close friends to loose Oct 15 18:30:09 crashanddie_, sooo, it's a race between you and zerojay now. :P Oct 15 18:30:20 By the way, zerojay, reminder. :P Oct 15 18:30:20 GeneralAntilles, hmm? Oct 15 18:30:29 For the N900 schnict sound. Oct 15 18:31:01 penguinbait, yeah excellently so, fraught with technical difficulties but i spoke to everyone i think i needed to and did everything i wanted and now a bit more now than then Oct 15 18:31:06 so thank you once again :) Oct 15 18:31:19 lcuk, we didn't drink enough though Oct 15 18:31:27 lcuk, well, I drank enough, but we didn't do it together Oct 15 18:31:27 any furthering of the job prospects? Oct 15 18:31:37 wait, did you say Qlix? Oct 15 18:31:43 crashanddie_, yeah i was running around like a blue ass fly Oct 15 18:31:45 Arkenklo, no, I said Quim Oct 15 18:31:51 crashanddie_: oh Oct 15 18:31:57 Arkenklo, Quim Gil, Community Something on behalf of Nokia Oct 15 18:32:06 ~lart dsmetool Oct 15 18:32:06 * infobot overclocks dsmetool until dsmetool burns out Oct 15 18:32:12 penguinbait, i spoke to many people, ive got a tel interview tomorrow and i have a few things which i need to follow up on. Oct 15 18:32:19 A man to have great respect for, in other words Oct 15 18:32:28 Arkenklo, actually, he's pretty chilled out IRL, but like anyone in a corporation, the last thing he has is time, so he doesn't waste it here Oct 15 18:32:57 what format are open office presentations stored in Oct 15 18:33:07 Arkenklo, respect is earned, and as long as he doesn't demonstrate anything you should have respect for, why would you have any? Would you take my word? Oct 15 18:33:38 osp? Oct 15 18:33:43 irc is not a waste of time. you just have to manage it well Oct 15 18:33:51 its the closest to grass roots there is Oct 15 18:33:53 odp Oct 15 18:34:05 GeneralAntilles, race between me and zj about what? Oct 15 18:34:17 im thinking of using odp then as a baseline for an interactive presentation Oct 15 18:34:25 crashanddie_, getting a recording of the N900 keyboard opening sound. Oct 15 18:34:26 but i cannot obviously do the interactive parts i want Oct 15 18:34:35 GeneralAntilles, I never said I would Oct 15 18:34:36 thx for odp bit Oct 15 18:34:37 Clearly he's at an advantage, though, since you didn't know you were running. :P Oct 15 18:34:53 GeneralAntilles, why would I record any such thing? Oct 15 18:34:59 does it make a noise? Oct 15 18:35:01 just ask nokia direct Oct 15 18:35:04 I guess I trust that he has the proper knowledge and skill to have gained my respect if the opportunity was presented if he has that kind of position Oct 15 18:35:07 the noise they use in the adverts Oct 15 18:35:11 crashanddie_, http://legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict.mov Oct 15 18:35:12 For that. Oct 15 18:35:43 does the n900 make a specific sound? Oct 15 18:35:43 * lcuk longs for prerolled cigs Oct 15 18:35:52 * crashanddie_ gives a LS to lcuk Oct 15 18:35:53 s/he has that kind/he's in that kind Oct 15 18:36:06 ls@? Oct 15 18:36:14 crashanddie_, that clunk as the slide clicks open. Oct 15 18:36:15 lucky strike Oct 15 18:36:19 I want to use that for when the .org pops in. Oct 15 18:36:25 personal-ip-address is now even better :) Oct 15 18:36:34 heh fiferboy Oct 15 18:36:47 fiferboy, it also finds lcuk's current IP address? Oct 15 18:36:50 btw folks, i read that accessing localhost when no network is available is a bit braindead Oct 15 18:36:54 do the unlock-switch on the side make a specific sound? Oct 15 18:36:56 GeneralAntilles: I thought maemo.org was meant to be exciting, and, as such, have an exciting sound representing it? ;) Oct 15 18:37:02 GeneralAntilles, liquid.zapto.org Oct 15 18:37:10 It displays the interface you are connected to and attempts to refresh your connection on click Oct 15 18:37:30 (like when walking between the N900 room and N800 room you would have to disconnect then reconnect) Oct 15 18:37:32 that powerdown in the official presentation is awesome Oct 15 18:37:52 powerdown? Oct 15 18:38:08 yeah, in the end Oct 15 18:38:22 lo fiferboy Oct 15 18:38:24 let me find the video Oct 15 18:38:31 hey lbt Oct 15 18:38:53 Are you mashing OBS into shape? Oct 15 18:38:58 * lbt needs to install shoppwe Oct 15 18:39:00 er Oct 15 18:39:10 but yes I'm hacking on OBS Oct 15 18:39:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au_uRmoy8Fs Oct 15 18:39:35 1:30 Oct 15 18:40:21 everytime i watch that video, i think M5 was designed for a huge screen Oct 15 18:40:30 a proper touch interface Oct 15 18:43:59 Hi Oct 15 18:44:44 is the nokia connecting people comming up Oct 15 18:44:47 at the start of n900? Oct 15 18:44:51 GeneralAntilles, sorry, don't have any microphone worthy enough to provide you with such recording Oct 15 18:44:54 I tried to install Maemo SDK+ on my Debian Lenny machine, but ran into a configuration problem with texlive-latex-base while the chroot environment (etch-2008) was being installed. Oct 15 18:44:58 Ceron^, yes Oct 15 18:44:59 with the 2 hands molesting eachother? Oct 15 18:45:06 Ceron^, two shaking hands rubing each other Oct 15 18:45:17 Has anyone else experienced this? Oct 15 18:45:30 Ceron^: They managed to make it even creepier in the N900 Oct 15 18:45:30 any choirboy I would expect Oct 15 18:45:40 qwerty12_N810: how? Oct 15 18:45:53 Ceron^: The N8x0 one was just a static image Oct 15 18:46:24 isee ;D Oct 15 18:46:40 qwerty12_N810: are the hands female or male? Oct 15 18:47:01 If you make a animation with high enough quality well enough you'll eventually reach the creepy-zone, I guess that's what has happened Oct 15 18:47:51 Ceron^: Male, of course; I mean, you can't have so many images taking the piss out of it saying it is a pedo image and have the hands being female Oct 15 18:48:17 Then again... Oct 15 18:49:21 since theres a lot of bleugh abotu this image Oct 15 18:49:32 how would "connecting people" be symbolized Oct 15 18:49:42 lcuk: The Matrix? Oct 15 18:50:02 big honkin' pipe coming out of Person A's head and into Person B Oct 15 18:50:13 The zombie-stare is bonus Oct 15 18:50:20 lcuk: A moment, there is an image for that Oct 15 18:50:22 Solarion, if i could show a single image for 1 second to people - which image would mean "connecting people" better than any other Oct 15 18:50:36 lcuk: just what I said. :) Oct 15 18:50:53 unless you're being serious, in which case it requires additonal thought. :) Oct 15 18:50:56 spiderman shooting a guy and pulling him in Oct 15 18:51:04 lcuk: http://rlv.zcache.com/sex_connecting_people_tshirt-p2355783613281571593r2z_400.jpg Oct 15 18:51:05 i go with this sort of thing: http://s3.images.com/huge.32.162626.JPG Oct 15 18:51:12 hahaha Oct 15 18:51:39 Maybe two people smiling at each other, like they recognize each other? Oct 15 18:51:41 RST38h, hopefully the interfaces are good Oct 15 18:51:43 lcuk: you a Nokian? Oct 15 18:51:46 no Oct 15 18:51:57 ah, sounded like ad campaign. :) Oct 15 18:51:58 but i think about connections an awful lot Oct 15 18:52:18 I suppose Nokia has better marketing resources than IRC channels. :) Oct 15 18:52:23 Solarion, i just dont like badmouthing something without a better solution to replace it with Oct 15 18:52:42 the best decisions in life come from 2 people connecting and talking - the channel and medium doesnt matter Oct 15 18:52:51 and sometimes without airs and graces even better can come Oct 15 18:53:12 like....money exchange between these two people?!? Oct 15 18:53:33 how does that translate into multi language Oct 15 18:56:16 Somebody needs to get ahold of those animations Nokia was playing before the Nokia World keynote. Oct 15 18:57:38 whos seen "catch phrase" on uk tv Oct 15 18:57:45 we need that game on the devices Oct 15 18:58:22 lcuk: There's a reason why it's on there now and not ITV Oct 15 18:58:23 MadLibs would be fun to have Oct 15 18:58:46 qwerty12_N810, it was good :) Oct 15 18:59:40 whats madlibs? Oct 15 19:00:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Libs Oct 15 19:00:12 oh cool! Oct 15 19:02:00 they can be pretty fun Oct 15 19:02:18 for the right audience i agree Oct 15 19:02:19 First long drive with the N900 today. . . . Oct 15 19:02:32 also a simple idea; take a template story, pop out key words, replace with a word-type tag (e.g. verb, noun), let user fill in blanks, present story Oct 15 19:02:53 yeah its in line with what im thinking for interactive presentations for schools Oct 15 19:03:11 N900: /etc/init.d/rcS: "echo 4 > /proc/sys/kernel/pty/max" - way to go, Nokia. Oct 15 19:04:00 lcuk: might also be nice to have collaborative storywriting stuff Oct 15 19:04:10 guess input would be the main problem for that Oct 15 19:04:24 seeing as maemo (5) is debianderived and uses apt-get, how easy and functional is it to install official debian packages for arm? Oct 15 19:04:45 Solarion, if my presentation had worked at the summit you would know what i mean. there was a section on cocreation and we expanded on a few of the ideas there Oct 15 19:04:55 there aren't any crucial software missing, right? Oct 15 19:05:06 lcuk: no, I'd not know. I sadly couldn't make it Oct 15 19:05:09 qwerty12_N810, ran into that trying to install stuff in h-a-m the other day. Oct 15 19:05:15 * Solarion would love to go to a maemo or gnome meeting Oct 15 19:05:28 so many things I want to do; so little time and moeny Oct 15 19:05:55 or is it armel? Oct 15 19:06:04 GeneralAntilles: Two Terminals open, and one SSH session from my N800. FFS, who makes these retarded decisions? Oct 15 19:06:22 qwerty12_N810, people who think all of their users are idiots. Oct 15 19:06:32 Hi Oct 15 19:06:36 qwerty12_N810: that caps the max number of allowed terminal sessions? Oct 15 19:06:44 Shapeshifter: yep Oct 15 19:06:44 slonopotamus: found bluez 4.xx ? Oct 15 19:06:45 Organizers of last week's SecTor security conference collected names, passwords, and all other traffic passing over two Wi-Fi networks provided to attendees, including one that was encrypted, the event's director has confirmed. Oct 15 19:06:45 I wonder if the average Nokia manager in Maemo has any concept for the kinds of things we do with these devices. . . Oct 15 19:06:50 dumb Oct 15 19:07:09 General: At the Summit, everybody got a chance to show them Oct 15 19:07:13 johnsq, yep, luke pointed me at it Oct 15 19:07:19 most nokia people have some involvement in the community, so im sure they are aware Oct 15 19:07:28 RST38h, all of them? ;) Oct 15 19:07:32 GeneralAntilles: fortunately, there are those who do Oct 15 19:07:36 General: A lot, not all Oct 15 19:07:59 General: There were all kinds of management people there, from project leads to Maemo6 marketing guys Oct 15 19:08:01 slonopotamus: i got my keyboard without problems connected, but now i must test if it auto connects after reboot Oct 15 19:08:09 Solarion, input isnt such a big problem if you get everything together Oct 15 19:08:26 General: So, there is some hope some informaion got across Oct 15 19:08:33 lcuk: for storywriting? Oct 15 19:08:54 for the madlibs type thingsw, for more general story writing, thats even practical Oct 15 19:08:58 in a different way tho Oct 15 19:09:41 how so? Oct 15 19:09:55 heh - you will see Oct 15 19:09:57 RST38h, it's utterly baffling the kind of simple usability stuff they omit. Oct 15 19:10:02 on another topic, i finally got photos and sketches showing properly in the graffiti view on Oct 15 19:10:04 liqbase Oct 15 19:10:20 so now i have the entire clean view of what i did whilst at the summit Oct 15 19:10:22 I need more monitors Oct 15 19:10:29 Solarion, how many? Oct 15 19:10:46 General: They have got separate usability people, lots of tech leads seem to loathe them Oct 15 19:10:47 Solarion: each computer shop sell them Oct 15 19:10:50 GeneralAntilles: How many you willing to give me? Oct 15 19:11:00 3 seems like a good number right now Oct 15 19:11:04 Solarion, don't have any extra at the moment. ;) Oct 15 19:11:13 But Samsung 2343bwx's are cheap! Oct 15 19:11:23 not when you're a postdoc Oct 15 19:11:24 i have a number of nXXX devices lying around, i just want to use them all collaboratively Oct 15 19:11:27 to share a single app Oct 15 19:11:28 Hehe Oct 15 19:11:36 * GeneralAntilles is at 4 right now. Oct 15 19:11:52 Was at 6 for a little while but a computer upgrade and general lack of desk space forced a downgrade. Oct 15 19:12:06 aww Oct 15 19:12:09 Linux? Oct 15 19:12:14 lcuk: and sharing screen? Oct 15 19:12:14 OS X Oct 15 19:12:19 screens Oct 15 19:12:20 ah Oct 15 19:12:28 Arkenklo, yeah Oct 15 19:12:40 The Linux DE experience just doesn't stack up yet. Oct 15 19:13:02 DE is what? Oct 15 19:13:06 that might be a problem Oct 15 19:13:09 Desktop Environment Oct 15 19:13:16 ah. I disagree, but to each their own Oct 15 19:13:39 GeneralAntilles: how so? Oct 15 19:13:41 huh... no ssl on freenode over here? Oct 15 19:13:45 general likes ferraris Oct 15 19:13:46 Solarion, how much experience do you have with OS X? Oct 15 19:13:47 or was 9999 just the wrong port? Oct 15 19:13:52 GeneralAntilles: some Oct 15 19:13:53 shame hes taking them to the garage every 5 minutes Oct 15 19:13:53 slonopotamus: but gentoo ebuild is very old upstream at 4.56 already Oct 15 19:14:01 Solarion, it's the little things that kill me. Oct 15 19:14:01 Enough to know that I prefer Linux. :) Oct 15 19:14:11 GeneralAntilles: if you say so Oct 15 19:14:13 Like not hiding the mouse pointer when typing. Oct 15 19:14:18 absolute: not sure i'm not connected via ssl Oct 15 19:14:19 I ain't fighting you on your preferences. Oct 15 19:14:19 http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/3981783507/ Oct 15 19:14:27 Windows XP Window Manager FTW, and everyone else is wrong!!! Oct 15 19:14:29 doesn't matter i suppose Oct 15 19:14:33 yeah Oct 15 19:14:35 not here at least :P Oct 15 19:14:35 (please port this great app to linux) Oct 15 19:14:37 evening people Oct 15 19:14:44 All I need to know about OS X to descide if I want to use it is that I'd have to pay to use it Oct 15 19:14:57 did anyone make a keymap switching app yet for n900? :) Oct 15 19:15:00 decide Oct 15 19:15:21 * lcuk waves @ aSIMULAter \o Oct 15 19:15:22 aSIMULAter, are those Chick-fil-A fries? :D Oct 15 19:15:43 suihkulokki, I've been poking unsuccessfully at xmodmap and the xkb symbols files. Oct 15 19:15:51 hehe no i made them :) Oct 15 19:15:57 suihkulokki, only thing I've managed to do so far is kill the keys I try to change with xmodmap. Oct 15 19:16:05 aSIMULAter, yummy. Oct 15 19:16:08 what's chick fil a Oct 15 19:16:09 GeneralAntilles: is Dat sum Keyboard I c dar? Oct 15 19:16:10 Whoa. I installed fennec and the N900 screen is freaking out. Oct 15 19:16:13 is that some new fast food joint in the US Oct 15 19:16:13 hello, all svn repos on garage has been turned to read-only. more info here: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021439.html Oct 15 19:16:22 aSIMULAter, not new, just mostly in the South. Oct 15 19:16:26 oh ok Oct 15 19:16:29 jeremiah: freaking out in a good way? Oct 15 19:16:31 Really tasty fries. ;) Oct 15 19:16:31 :) Oct 15 19:16:37 aSIMULAter: chik fil a - a southern food joint Oct 15 19:16:37 Heya, I'm hearing some very saddening things regarding USB Host mode... You guys know if there's still support in some manner? I know there were issues related to implementing USB OTG, but I was reading on the n810 that people got USB Host mode working using some power injector thing which looked like a usb cable with a power regulator and a 9v Oct 15 19:16:40 sopi: but git is still chugging along, right? Oct 15 19:16:46 Is USB Host completely no-go in mameo 5? Oct 15 19:16:48 mfinkle: Not really, weird artefacts on the screen Oct 15 19:16:56 @Solarion: git repos are not affected. Oct 15 19:16:57 or is it just something that's going to have to be added through software updates? Oct 15 19:17:02 jeremiah: in the web content area? Oct 15 19:17:10 mfinkle: No - in the background Oct 15 19:17:12 jeremiah: or every where Oct 15 19:17:13 suihkulokki, but it's one of my personal goals to con somebody into writing a control panel for it once it gets figured out. ;) Oct 15 19:17:16 really weird. Oct 15 19:17:17 @Solarion: they are on a different server with plenty of space. Oct 15 19:17:20 mfinkle: Everywhere Oct 15 19:17:28 mfinkle: Have you seen this? Oct 15 19:17:42 jeremiah: nope Oct 15 19:17:50 I recorded it so I hope to put up a bug report and a video Oct 15 19:17:50 jeremiah: I have been using a vanilla n900 - nothing much else running Oct 15 19:17:52 i don't know absolute, can anyone answer him? Oct 15 19:17:52 By the way, you all need to join http://www.flickr.com/groups/1281847@N22/ Oct 15 19:17:58 jeremiah: great, thanks Oct 15 19:18:04 : Oct 15 19:18:12 Missing a mouth Oct 15 19:18:12 GeneralAntilles: I the keymap comes from hal these days.. and I _presume_ you could change those the same way modern gnome/kde do it Oct 15 19:18:13 :) Oct 15 19:18:29 hal? Oct 15 19:18:30 absolute, not sure - read the forums where the techs are looking, but why is this end of the world? Oct 15 19:18:35 Hardware Abstraction Layer Oct 15 19:18:53 suihkulokki, oh? Anything resembling documentation of any sort you could point me to? Oct 15 19:19:20 setxkbmap? Oct 15 19:19:25 Well, things like transferring recorded video and stuff to a secondary device when away from a pc Oct 15 19:19:37 usb --> ethernet where there's no wifi access but wired accesss Oct 15 19:19:39 things of that nature Oct 15 19:19:39 btw, is hildon based on a specific wm? Oct 15 19:19:54 it seems like there'd be a whole variety of devices that could be useful in this manner Oct 15 19:19:55 Arkenklo, Matchbox 2. Oct 15 19:20:01 GeneralAntilles: thanks Oct 15 19:20:14 I'm thinking of taking a long trip overseas and not having a fullblown pc at my disposal Oct 15 19:20:26 absolute, blame the USB Consortium for putting everything and the kitchen sink before users' interests. Oct 15 19:20:41 absolute: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html Oct 15 19:20:42 absolute: ITEM #1: Make sure you still have data connectivity overseas Oct 15 19:20:46 absolute: buy a n810 Oct 15 19:20:56 absolute: Otherwise your tablet becomes kinda useless Oct 15 19:21:08 why Oct 15 19:21:13 not really, only for specific purposes Oct 15 19:21:20 i have had a tablet for 18months with no constant connectivity Oct 15 19:21:23 can't check email, can't read news, can't use maps Oct 15 19:21:27 i merely go offline when away from house Oct 15 19:21:30 its much more relaxing Oct 15 19:21:35 lcuk: But you do have a computer right? Oct 15 19:21:38 take a real map with you Oct 15 19:21:43 which has connectivity Oct 15 19:21:45 Right, I'll have intermittent internet access, but nothing constant Oct 15 19:21:56 no RST38h most of the time i never have laptop or anything Oct 15 19:22:05 and at the summit i had internet for just one block Oct 15 19:22:09 i'm more into the media playing/recording functions and gps and such Oct 15 19:22:11 lcuk: How come you are with us? =) Oct 15 19:22:25 RST38h, i told you, i hate computers Oct 15 19:22:33 absolute: Geotagging and maps won't work without connectivity Oct 15 19:22:45 lcuk: No, that was a more direct question =) Oct 15 19:22:45 geotagging is bloody gps Oct 15 19:22:48 which we have with no net Oct 15 19:22:52 You are on IRC somehow, ain't you? Oct 15 19:22:59 yes Oct 15 19:23:05 but home hardline is different Oct 15 19:23:10 lcuk: Yea, except it did not lock up for me without connectivity Oct 15 19:23:12 i read its standalone as well as assisted-gps, so Oct 15 19:23:45 the post i read on maemo.org wasn't clear whether the hardware setup completely eliminated the possibility of usb host, or if it just meant a setup like people did with the 810 to effectively hack the support in Oct 15 19:23:51 having said that, having the phone and possibility of data is good Oct 15 19:23:53 lcuk: So, assisted it may be, but wherever there is no assistance it does not seem to work (n810 GPS does just slowly) Oct 15 19:24:02 yeah i know rst Oct 15 19:24:11 absolute: completely. Oct 15 19:24:15 when i had no credit it spent 3 hours with no lock Oct 15 19:24:25 when i was soaking and needing it Oct 15 19:24:43 when i got back to the hotel i got internet and grabbed the map i had forgotten Oct 15 19:24:44 absolute: abandon all hope, it is a hardware decision (related to USB charging) Oct 15 19:24:46 that's sad, but oh well, necessities i suppose Oct 15 19:24:56 i hope the next iteration can do it Oct 15 19:25:00 God damn it! Oct 15 19:25:01 hmm, no usb host? Oct 15 19:25:16 there such a thing as a bluetooth USB hub? Oct 15 19:25:34 lcuk: Then vote and comment on this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 Oct 15 19:25:39 I hope someone hacks in a second usbport directly to the chip Oct 15 19:25:44 I dunno, there might be, but then i'd be stuck figuring out a power source for that Oct 15 19:26:05 * absolute shrugs Oct 15 19:26:18 lcuk: Notice that if people do not comment, it will never get confirmed Oct 15 19:26:54 it wont let me login Oct 15 19:27:05 i probably refrained from doin it at some point Oct 15 19:27:06 People whined for USB charging for so long. Little did they realize how much it would suck. ;) Oct 15 19:27:17 I WANT BOTH Oct 15 19:27:19 Can't even charge from dumb chargers. Oct 15 19:27:27 USB charging is awesome Oct 15 19:27:33 ly fail Oct 15 19:27:42 Take that back Oct 15 19:27:43 the n810 didn't charge off of usb? Oct 15 19:27:47 no Oct 15 19:27:51 usb charging FTW Oct 15 19:27:54 GeneralAntilles, no u Oct 15 19:27:56 ahh Oct 15 19:28:15 No host and you don't even get convenience from USB charging Oct 15 19:28:23 Since you can't use any of those aftermarket chargers with USB plugs. Oct 15 19:28:23 someone care to quickly sum up why usb charging exludes host? Oct 15 19:28:48 From what i've seen, people did get host working on the 810, contrary to your statement Oct 15 19:29:03 Arkenklo: your circuitry can either accept 5v to toggle host-mode on or it can accept 5v to charge. doing both is a mess. Oct 15 19:29:18 Arkenklo, apparently they couldn't get it to play 100% nice before shipping. Oct 15 19:29:41 Arkenklo, so the plan was likely to be to ship an unofficial software update to make things work after the fact. Oct 15 19:29:58 But the USB Consortium said "if you ship it like this, you don't get to call it USB" Oct 15 19:30:00 wtf Oct 15 19:30:05 ahh Oct 15 19:30:05 bugzilla wont let me login Oct 15 19:30:13 GeneralAntilles, the retail package has the Nokia standard plug -> USB plug adapter thing Oct 15 19:30:14 but i can send a password token Oct 15 19:30:16 So they had to disable it in hardware. Oct 15 19:30:30 absolute, these are the general details as I understand them anyway. Oct 15 19:30:46 Which is to say, hearsay and a small dose of speculation. Oct 15 19:31:02 "disabled in hardware" is probably that they don't have the OTG port, just regular microUSB port. Oct 15 19:31:06 where's my 3D drivers for maemo4 :( Oct 15 19:31:14 OTG != Host mode, btw Oct 15 19:31:16 Firebird, give it a week or two. Oct 15 19:31:34 Firebird: Is this the part where I put on the Soup Nazi hat and tell you no drivers for you? Oct 15 19:31:54 The other issue could be that the USB transceiver they're using in order to support charging, doesn't let you select mode from software. In that case, even IF they had OTG working, you couldn't have used it with F-F adapter and usbcontrol, like you could do with N810. Oct 15 19:32:00 My general impression is that Nokia wanted to ship OTG support but due to a variety of technical complications compounded by political ones it couldn't happen. Oct 15 19:32:17 Solarion, no, you can eat your own hat though Oct 15 19:32:20 ShadowJK, the datasheet from TI seems like it should support everything required. Oct 15 19:32:29 But, as you can see, I'm no expert on the subject. ;) Oct 15 19:32:56 Firebird: om nom nom nom Oct 15 19:32:59 GeneralAntilles, they are using TI's usb controller, but are they using TI's transceiver? It's probably an external transceiver? Oct 15 19:33:07 or so someone said :) Oct 15 19:33:10 It's a TI transceiver. Oct 15 19:33:14 Barbequue makes everything better Oct 15 19:33:21 I have the model number here somewhere Oct 15 19:33:31 It's in the kernel changelog. Oct 15 19:33:54 OTG/Host can't be /that/ important to people anyway... nobody has tried the drivers suggested in that big thread on tmo Oct 15 19:33:58 ;-) Oct 15 19:34:04 Oct 15 19:34:05 on the n810, it looked like they're work around was to put the battery in the middle of the cable and to send the 3.3v (5v? either way) to both host and guest Oct 15 19:34:14 absolute, no that's 700? Oct 15 19:34:29 770 Oct 15 19:34:34 uh., right Oct 15 19:34:36 N800 and N810 worked fine with a grounded 5th pin. Oct 15 19:34:39 n770 Oct 15 19:34:41 * qwerty12_N810 ducks Oct 15 19:34:46 * GeneralAntilles throws food at qwerty12_N810. Oct 15 19:34:50 oh ok Oct 15 19:35:05 N800 and N810 has circuitry to provide power on its USB port. And they also work without grounded fifth pin with the usbcontrol software. Oct 15 19:35:06 Or you could just switch it in software with a generic F-F adaptor. Oct 15 19:35:31 RST38h: re: charging - is your comment based on more than the couple of mails to the mailing list a monthish ago? Oct 15 19:35:42 Too bad the 800's don't have the same level of hardware as the 900 Oct 15 19:35:42 You know, I've accidentally obtained a number of USB Hubs that supply power in both directions. Cheap crap :-( Oct 15 19:36:02 absolute, Nokia really needs to make an updated N800. Oct 15 19:36:48 GeneralAntilles: have you heard, n920 won't have a keyboard, will have 4.3" screen and will run Bora! Oct 15 19:36:54 I guess the general thought is that 32gb + 16gb is good enough for everyone... but I'm not liking the idea of buying a bunch of $70 microSD cards Oct 15 19:36:54 ShadowJK: hubs that supply power upstream are broken, but useful - i've got a nas that can be powered over it's *host only* usb port Oct 15 19:37:11 to swap for more space Oct 15 19:37:12 absolute: they drop in price Oct 15 19:37:21 absolute: I for once don't ever need more then 20gb Oct 15 19:37:21 absolute, then give it 6 months and buy a bunch of twice-as-large microSD cards for half the price! ;) Oct 15 19:37:29 absolute: or 300 Oct 15 19:37:32 hehe Oct 15 19:37:46 but it's either less then 20 or more then 300 Oct 15 19:37:55 The more annoying part is that SDXC cards - which will be 64G and larger - may not be compatible. Oct 15 19:38:00 ali1234, I have a NAS that has DC port and 2 USB ports. The power on USB and DC are directly connected... Guess what happened when I hooked up that hub ;p Oct 15 19:38:02 In 2 years you'll be able to get 64GB microSD cards for $20. ;) Oct 15 19:38:08 SpeedEvil, how so? :) Oct 15 19:38:15 between is rubbish. no _real_ space for stuff, but too much for everyday stuff Oct 15 19:38:18 I'm surprised with PUSH and all the arduino stuff that usb didn't make the grade really... Oct 15 19:38:23 ShadowJK: but, for host mode on a device that doesn't supply power, you dont need to inject power into it. you just need a powered hub for downstream devices Oct 15 19:38:27 I haven't been able to find a low-level spec for SDXC cards - and see if they are electrically backwards compatible. Oct 15 19:38:28 So other than microSD, i really don't have any other storage options, do i? Oct 15 19:38:31 SpeedEvil, SDXC is just a "let's pretend to break compatibility so we can sell more shit". Oct 15 19:38:39 ShadowJK: yep, i guess mine is the same Oct 15 19:38:41 SpeedEvil, they are. Oct 15 19:38:58 Either my PS3 has learnt to read my mind Oct 15 19:38:59 SpeedEvil, hell, the 770 would support SDXC if the slot were the right size. Oct 15 19:39:03 GeneralAntilles: Sure - probably. I however haven't seen a low-level description of the protocol that means I can say yes or no. Oct 15 19:39:07 Or I have a bluetooth chipset in my brain Oct 15 19:39:23 But I was thinking "I should do some coding", and HL2 crashed Oct 15 19:39:26 SpeedEvil, SDXC is just SDHC with exFAT and extra address bits enabled in the spec. Oct 15 19:39:32 absolute: external wifi hdd Oct 15 19:39:34 SpeedEvil, Linux has support for all of the important parts. Oct 15 19:39:38 crashanddie_: What? It shows a picture of a dodgy Frenchman? Oct 15 19:39:40 SpeedEvil, just minus exFAT. Oct 15 19:39:52 GeneralAntilles: It's also faster enough that it implies it has a different access mode too. And there are other indications. Oct 15 19:39:57 johnsq: i guess that also assumes that i have access to an outlet at the time too, unfortunately Oct 15 19:39:58 You'll be able to run 2TB cards in your N800 as long as you use something besides exFAT. Oct 15 19:40:07 RST38h, confirmed Oct 15 19:40:24 GeneralAntilles: If it mandates backwards compatibility in the cards is something I haven't seen any docs on - and I've looked. Oct 15 19:40:40 qwerty12_N810, I may be dodgy, and of an unclassifiable nationality, but at least I don't freeze up in public and can stand next to someone without fidgeting like a 6 year old Oct 15 19:40:48 Is there a key combo on the N900 that takes a screen shot? Oct 15 19:40:54 ctrl-shift-p Oct 15 19:41:02 Thanks GeneralAntilles Oct 15 19:41:06 qwerty12_N810, so get the fuck out with your lame character, and go back to the qwerty a lot of people appreciated Oct 15 19:41:06 nice Oct 15 19:41:35 I hope Nokia wont fix the host problem and release a version that supports it, because I wont be able to buy it Oct 15 19:41:37 GeneralAntilles: By backwards compatibility, I mean something that's just firmware to add support for in 99% of hardware. Oct 15 19:41:47 qwerty12_N810, because at the moment, with your snarky remarks and stupid behaviour, you're making people think a lot of shit about you, so get a fucking grip q Oct 15 19:41:52 Arkenklo: ? Oct 15 19:42:11 crashanddie_, a touchy tonight? ;) Oct 15 19:42:12 * lcuk doesnt think any less of qwerty Oct 15 19:42:15 bit+ Oct 15 19:42:18 Right, i'm just saying, if the n900 doesn't in some way gain support through hacks, I hope the next device in the series will have support and i can swap at that point Oct 15 19:42:24 Nah, fair points Oct 15 19:42:26 like this rumored 920, Oct 15 19:42:36 or whatever is the flagship for maemo6 Oct 15 19:42:40 absolute: I don't, because I won't be able to swap Oct 15 19:42:51 if I can't have it nobody can Oct 15 19:43:06 hehe Oct 15 19:43:07 rumors are like god. Oct 15 19:43:16 so we don't really need them. Oct 15 19:43:18 we all know it's n1000 gruntmaster Oct 15 19:43:30 Shapeshifter, very powerful but nobody knows who started spreading the word? Oct 15 19:43:42 im holding out for the N'over9000' series Oct 15 19:43:43 crashanddie_: for example! Oct 15 19:43:46 N9billionmillionzillion Oct 15 19:43:58 lcuk: the N770? Oct 15 19:44:00 one thing is for certain Oct 15 19:44:04 o_O aSIMULAter my sorta thinkin Oct 15 19:44:04 any next device is N00. Oct 15 19:44:11 ;) Oct 15 19:44:18 i keep wanting to scratch a 7 after mine Oct 15 19:44:22 lcuk: Vote for it too =) Oct 15 19:44:23 NA00 Oct 15 19:44:23 Noo7 Oct 15 19:44:24 And thanks Oct 15 19:44:39 N007 even Oct 15 19:44:42 N008 Oct 15 19:44:43 Maemo6 is QT based. Oct 15 19:44:49 I'd too like a Nokia NA00 Oct 15 19:44:50 Maemo7 will come with a syringe Oct 15 19:45:03 whos got a blank fronted n900 Oct 15 19:45:10 RST38h, nahhh Oct 15 19:45:23 startrek hyponeedle thing Oct 15 19:45:25 maemo7 won't come Oct 15 19:45:33 it'll be downloaded to your mind directly Oct 15 19:45:43 it'll just sorta kinda "be there" Oct 15 19:45:43 I heard the n920 will come with a gun. Oct 15 19:45:45 through an injection into the spinal cord Oct 15 19:45:53 a laser gun Oct 15 19:45:53 and all of your memories from before will have maemo6 in them Oct 15 19:46:06 it will make you think it has a dpad. Oct 15 19:46:12 cool i need a laser gun Oct 15 19:46:22 * lcuk expects http://10.0.0.1/harmattan.install Oct 15 19:47:08 and as its "the final step" it should do like lawnmower man and ring all the phones Oct 15 19:47:26 jesus 5 pages of unread topics since last visit... Oct 15 19:48:22 I find it very odd that maemo ships without man pages Oct 15 19:48:27 how is that possible Oct 15 19:48:45 how will one ever be able to say rtfm with this Oct 15 19:48:48 Shapeshifter: docpurge, manpage? Oct 15 19:48:49 it's anarchy Oct 15 19:48:49 Shapeshifter: surely they're available as a package? Oct 15 19:48:56 manpurge Oct 15 19:49:02 Arkenklo: they are offered as a download somewhere Oct 15 19:49:12 well then Oct 15 19:49:39 obviously, they're not included for space-reasons Oct 15 19:49:45 space reasons Oct 15 19:49:54 memory-space reasons Oct 15 19:50:03 It also doesn't have a compiler. Oct 15 19:50:07 It's a travesty! Oct 15 19:50:10 +1 Oct 15 19:50:14 du -sh /usr/share/man/ /home/shapeshifter Oct 15 19:50:14 Or is it a phone. Oct 15 19:50:14 56M /usr/share/man Oct 15 19:50:17 apparently gps is not easy on competitor camp either: http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/webos-internals/palm-pre-gps-error.html Oct 15 19:51:17 and that's all languages Oct 15 19:53:24 dayum Oct 15 19:53:32 I'm an idiot Oct 15 19:53:47 suihkulokki: neat Oct 15 19:54:18 my current portable computer slash phone sure doesn't include a compiler either Oct 15 19:55:48 RST38h, voted sir Oct 15 19:56:23 suihkulokki, lol Oct 15 19:57:50 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Oct 15 19:58:04 SSHed into my N900 and trying to figure out where I left it. Oct 15 19:58:07 It was in my pocket. . . . Oct 15 19:58:10 hah Oct 15 19:58:17 never complain about the thickness again. Oct 15 19:58:27 lol Oct 15 19:58:30 personal-gprs-mon just got even better :) Oct 15 19:58:37 hah Oct 15 19:59:07 GeneralAntilles: I'd have just phoned it..... Oct 15 19:59:20 phone a computer? you're crazy Oct 15 19:59:22 if you forget again, just ssh in and make it ding Oct 15 19:59:30 lardman, well, I was prodding at things in SSH and wondering where it was. Oct 15 19:59:42 Not necessarily sshed in for the purposes of finding it. ;) Oct 15 19:59:48 switch on GPS, wait for lock, ...? ;) Oct 15 19:59:53 Hehe Oct 15 19:59:59 wont work indoors :) Oct 15 20:00:10 Cellular connectivity does kind of mess up the "it must be in the building" thing. Oct 15 20:00:12 give it time Oct 15 20:00:20 "It's somewhere in the country." Oct 15 20:00:26 the Nokians said that wifi AP recognition would come Oct 15 20:00:31 or so I remember Oct 15 20:00:47 so at least you'll know it's in the house somewhere Oct 15 20:01:05 GeneralAntilles, yeah but you probably can't predict the IP when it's on gprs anyway Oct 15 20:01:07 * GeneralAntilles isn't divining any secrets from hal. Oct 15 20:01:09 /3g Oct 15 20:01:10 I'd be scared if I didn't know that... Oct 15 20:01:29 ShadowJK, need to set up dydns on it. . . . Oct 15 20:02:03 You can rarely make inbound connections anyway Oct 15 20:02:06 ssh tunnel on network up is better Oct 15 20:02:29 * GeneralAntilles doesn't actually have a use-case for it anyway. Oct 15 20:02:40 I can't wait until I get my n900 to have some fun with that sweet sweet root shell Oct 15 20:03:22 what the.. Oct 15 20:03:30 n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil Oct 15 20:03:40 how do you do that? Oct 15 20:03:41 "wifi ap recognition"? Isn't that just: iwconfig 2>&1 |awk '/.Access/ { print $6}' Oct 15 20:03:54 * GeneralAntilles wants the freaking maemo.org group contact to be processed already. Oct 15 20:03:58 Hmm, desktop widgets get added to the desktop before the postinst script gets run... Oct 15 20:04:01 * ShadowJK has been able to make inbound connections on all cellphone operators here :/ Oct 15 20:04:06 A year on the council and Freenode couldn't even managed to do it in that timeframe. Oct 15 20:04:22 That means if you use any icons in the widget, they won't show up until the widget is removed and readded Oct 15 20:04:30 fiferboy, nice. Oct 15 20:04:33 fiferboy, lovely Oct 15 20:04:40 Bug time? Oct 15 20:04:43 Since the gtk-update-icon-cache gets run in postinst Oct 15 20:04:47 Arkenklo: lilo set it some time ago. Oct 15 20:05:14 nice Oct 15 20:05:18 I check to see if anyone has reported that Oct 15 20:05:59 * GeneralAntilles keeps getting LinkedIn contact requests from random students with Arabic sounding names at the university. . . . Oct 15 20:07:33 Nice, although i don't know if this will be a feasible solution since the microSD is tucked away behind the battery cover Oct 15 20:07:36 http://mobile.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Mobidapter.php Oct 15 20:09:42 that's just mass-storage to microsd adapter.. not generic usb :P Oct 15 20:10:09 * fiferboy wonders about having the postinst script remove and add the widget after the cache update... Oct 15 20:10:10 absolute: a little expensive get a smartq s5 for that money Oct 15 20:10:23 postinst isn't supposed to touch user files, correct? Oct 15 20:10:48 absolute, yeah, not gonna work. Oct 15 20:11:26 ideas? http://slexy.org/view/s2i3cQilmD Oct 15 20:11:52 fair enough Oct 15 20:12:11 jeremiah: ping? Oct 15 20:12:16 crashanddie_, looks like the munging has messed up Oct 15 20:12:46 * lcuk hasnt actually seen the symbol table for c++ in a long time, but that brings back many memories Oct 15 20:13:03 fiferboy: pong Oct 15 20:13:21 fiferboy, not really Oct 15 20:13:22 jeremiah: Is postinst allowed to touch user files? Oct 15 20:13:52 since your app is expected to run in multiple user accounts and will most likely be running in user account which is != end user account Oct 15 20:14:20 fiferboy: I will see if I can find the relevant policy . . . Oct 15 20:14:30 jeremiah: Thanks Oct 15 20:14:46 fiferboy: you should make a wrapper arround the application which does the job Oct 15 20:14:55 I have a feeling lcuk is right, although maemo doesn't really act like a multi-user system Oct 15 20:15:21 fiferboy, installation occurs under root Oct 15 20:15:26 therefore ~ is /root Oct 15 20:15:32 and you mucking with files wont work Oct 15 20:15:39 cos when run normally its /home/user Oct 15 20:15:45 lcuk: And I guess hardcoding /home/user isn't the best idea :) Oct 15 20:15:55 Stskeeps, and many others will shout Oct 15 20:16:34 OK, look at the alpha blending on this: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict.mov Oct 15 20:16:50 Should I try to normalize it more so the e and the ma mo fade in at the same apparent speed? Oct 15 20:16:55 Or just leave it as-is. Oct 15 20:17:15 It's kind of a cool effect, but I'm having trouble seeing past the "knowing it's actually a defect" bit. Oct 15 20:17:37 over analysing lol Oct 15 20:17:43 looks cool tho Oct 15 20:17:51 much nicer than the waving in one Oct 15 20:17:59 GeneralAntilles, how about having the ae appear at the same time, and the rest later? Oct 15 20:18:12 crashanddie_, interesting. Oct 15 20:18:35 GeneralAntilles: you should cooperate with Michael Bay :D Oct 15 20:18:43 haha Oct 15 20:18:45 lcuk, did you see the updated zoom in one? Oct 15 20:18:49 guns and 'splosions Oct 15 20:19:15 fiferboy: The policy document does not really have a lot to say about user files, although it seems to imply you can touch them Oct 15 20:19:21 i saw a few, i like this more than any of them tho Oct 15 20:19:29 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup3.mov Oct 15 20:19:41 I like the concept on this, but the camera path is kind of uninteresting. Oct 15 20:19:51 jeremiah, in debian, whats the score when installing - since you can easily have a machine with 100+ users on Oct 15 20:19:53 GeneralAntilles: why white bckgrnd btw? Oct 15 20:19:54 jeremiah: Thanks. It would be easy in our one-user system, but a headache in a true multi-user environment Oct 15 20:19:56 * Stskeeps objects to touching /home/user and /home/user/MyDocs in postinst Oct 15 20:19:59 how would a postinst much around with them Oct 15 20:20:03 Maybe I need to do a 2001-style monolith move in. :D Oct 15 20:20:12 wazd, just because I like the white ones more. Oct 15 20:20:17 Stskeeps: THIS. IS. MAEMO!!!!!!!!! Oct 15 20:20:19 * lcuk agrees with Stskeeps Oct 15 20:20:21 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict-black.mov Oct 15 20:20:23 ;) Oct 15 20:20:24 If you prefer. Oct 15 20:20:27 this might be maemo Oct 15 20:20:32 GeneralAntilles: black would look better on n900 imo Oct 15 20:20:38 but have app pull its data from central when run is best Oct 15 20:20:42 especially since harmattan will have multiuser stuff in security stuff Oct 15 20:20:46 and even gets round issue of clean/new user Oct 15 20:20:49 GeneralAntilles: but you're the boss :D Oct 15 20:21:00 wazd, I'll probably ship both. Oct 15 20:21:17 Stskeeps, this security stuff wrinkles my forehead Oct 15 20:21:21 it does not sound linuy Oct 15 20:21:24 linuxy Oct 15 20:21:46 lcuk: I'll have to look at the relevant debian policy. Oct 15 20:21:54 thx jeremiah Oct 15 20:22:05 Which is good because it is probably the default maemo policy when nothing is specified by maemo Oct 15 20:22:07 lcuk, it looks saneish so far Oct 15 20:22:29 it looks like dualboot between windows/linux to me Oct 15 20:22:38 nah Oct 15 20:23:05 reboot to switch modes is one of the things in the wiki Oct 15 20:23:21 between drm/sane mode I guess. Oct 15 20:23:24 if it was VMware type instaswitch i might agree Oct 15 20:23:25 jeremiah, that's correct. Oct 15 20:23:51 it was actually interesting.. community kernels can select own policy Oct 15 20:24:05 * GeneralAntilles is nuking it ASAP. Oct 15 20:24:08 and then it becomes a security tool Oct 15 20:24:18 were the security slides or some more description uploaded? Oct 15 20:24:58 http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_security Oct 15 20:25:09 lcuk: a, ta! Oct 15 20:25:58 lbt, can you try to enforce proper comment threading and signing on that page? Oct 15 20:26:38 is video up yet? Oct 15 20:26:56 GeneralAntilles: why not Oct 15 20:28:04 GeneralAntilles: Ah, good. Thanks for confirming Oct 15 20:28:25 jeremiah, I believe that point in in the introduction of the Maemo packaging policy, actually. :D Oct 15 20:28:53 I think you are right. :) Oct 15 20:29:12 maybe I can make a movie for Mer too :) Oct 15 20:29:45 but it should be 2h long and with Brad Pitt :D Oct 15 20:29:52 fight club? Oct 15 20:29:58 This plat sec stuff leaves me with a nasty feeling in the pit of my stomach. Oct 15 20:30:21 Stskeeps: sure :) Oct 15 20:30:34 GAN: Mine does that too, even with the "community kernel will be open" stuff. Oct 15 20:30:48 GeneralAntilles: from a person who is normally very cautious about this stuff, i am fairly happy. Oct 15 20:30:49 This just seems like a bad road to be going down. Oct 15 20:31:03 Opens up lots of doors to evil things. Oct 15 20:31:10 i can see why its needed in long long term. Oct 15 20:31:19 Hmm, I can make it so the widget doesn't appear on the desktop on install Oct 15 20:31:20 it feels like the worst level of Microsoft Palladium Oct 15 20:31:31 (actually, appears and then disappears) Oct 15 20:31:59 I was hoping to make it dissapear then reappear Oct 15 20:32:00 Stskeeps, why tho Oct 15 20:32:09 if you can see - please explain Oct 15 20:32:23 Does anyone know the mechanism that triggers a widget to get added to the desktop on install? Oct 15 20:32:54 lcuk, when devices are promiscious like people were in the sixties hard enforced security will be needed and untrusted processes. Oct 15 20:32:55 fiferboy, best guess, inotify on the folder watching for .desktop items or the .so Oct 15 20:33:12 lcuk: Doesn't look like the desktop folder (I just tried that :) Oct 15 20:33:18 I'll try the .so folder Oct 15 20:33:50 Stskeeps, so this platform is gonna be locked down tighter than the iphone Oct 15 20:34:31 * lbt does a double take at Stskeeps' analogy between 60's "free love" and Aigis security.... Oct 15 20:34:41 fiferboy, think it's probably Hildon Home. Oct 15 20:34:43 cos rebooting isnt an option. "oh, hold on a minute whilst i reboot and run XYZ app" Oct 15 20:35:57 spinnukur has a sick mind. Oct 15 20:36:20 lcuk, no, less actually. its hardware enforced security. they say it themselves, ability to define own policies Oct 15 20:36:41 drm is one policy which nokias kernel implements Oct 15 20:37:04 so can we expect a sane mer where i can run homebrew and make calls and do the sort of stuff i can do today? Oct 15 20:37:21 as i can read it, yes Oct 15 20:37:29 but I don't see how it will any different than jailbreaking Oct 15 20:37:37 but my homebrew wont be signed Oct 15 20:37:43 snd? Oct 15 20:37:45 and? Oct 15 20:37:51 jailbreaking isnt wanted if you want your mum to use it Oct 15 20:38:09 my app wont have rights to use XYZ platform feature Oct 15 20:38:21 then give it Oct 15 20:38:32 always selfsigned stuff.. Oct 15 20:38:48 what are "favourites"? Oct 15 20:38:51 Software freedom lovers, here comes Maemo 5. Software freedom haters, here comes Maemo 6. As for the rest, there's always MasterCard. Oct 15 20:39:10 as long as there's an off switch Oct 15 20:39:23 i personally think their platform security is the least evil way i have seen Oct 15 20:39:40 Stskeeps: in a smartphone. Oct 15 20:39:52 I see that people have favourites, but I've no idea what they are and do Oct 15 20:39:59 arent we already protected now? Oct 15 20:40:02 i wouldnt mind same security on my wall display. Oct 15 20:40:07 as a normal user cant change vital OS components Oct 15 20:40:31 lcuk, a package can technically damage your device Oct 15 20:40:58 what I hate is that user security is usually mixed with DRM. Oct 15 20:40:58 so you get both or none. Oct 15 20:41:11 javispedro: in this case it has open api it seems Oct 15 20:41:15 thats the operating systems job to prevent malicious argument passing Oct 15 20:41:26 malicious argument passing lol Oct 15 20:41:29 argument antivirus xd Oct 15 20:41:31 it's best to keep your device turned off and without battery, because otherwise it might not work when it's supposed to Oct 15 20:41:53 Arkenklo: and frozen. and encaged in a box with a metter of cement. and in the middle of siberia. Oct 15 20:41:55 javispedro, setting the CRT refresh rate and frequencies at a low level could at one time potentially blow the monitor Oct 15 20:42:02 in linux, you are what prevents malicious arguments from passing Oct 15 20:42:16 lcuk: that was (relatively) long time ago. Oct 15 20:42:40 but there's still ways to do soemthing like that, I get the point. Oct 15 20:42:41 yeah but then when fixed, no matter what args or functions were called from user space to the OS were safe Oct 15 20:43:18 frankly, i would like to let some apps from my visitors run inside my home, but they need fine grained access controls Oct 15 20:43:39 give them a user account Oct 15 20:43:41 like now Oct 15 20:43:45 Stskeeps: does your house run linux? Oct 15 20:44:36 i shouldnt be worried about them reading my data or reverse Oct 15 20:44:41 Stskeeps, im not anti security, i just dont like DRM and palladium style cybercop Oct 15 20:44:53 oh, i hate drm Oct 15 20:45:03 but thats what you are advocating Oct 15 20:45:08 but i see benefits of this in other scenarios Oct 15 20:45:17 but i see benefits of this in other scenarios Oct 15 20:45:20 no, trusted computing Oct 15 20:45:33 or htf its called Oct 15 20:45:36 * lcuk nods Oct 15 20:45:50 when your users connect to your box by ssh now Oct 15 20:45:56 and have access to a user account Oct 15 20:46:02 how can they access your data Oct 15 20:46:35 they can poke about easily Oct 15 20:46:46 sure - but not in my ~ Oct 15 20:47:01 unless i give them permission Oct 15 20:47:03 chmod g+r file Oct 15 20:47:05 and this is only on fs level Oct 15 20:47:07 not all of your data is in ~. and not all systems are perfectly secure. Oct 15 20:47:13 and add the users to the group Oct 15 20:47:37 Disconnect, yes - security holes exist Oct 15 20:47:48 they can be fixed without needing to reboot to run a different app Oct 15 20:48:18 lcuk, you are overinterpreting their statements Oct 15 20:48:33 ive read about this level of security for years Oct 15 20:48:36 nothing stops us from running homebrew in drm mode Oct 15 20:49:02 I do hope they have provision for getting it unlocked if your network provider won't cooperate Oct 15 20:49:08 does anybody know if you can ssh to a N900 ? (i'd think yes, but better ask. a friend wants to buy one, and i don't know much about it yet) Oct 15 20:49:15 yes Oct 15 20:49:18 cirzgamanti: yes, you can Oct 15 20:49:19 install openssh Oct 15 20:49:26 openssh-server Oct 15 20:50:03 anything that you'd miss compared to a standard desktop install? :) Oct 15 20:50:11 SpeedEvil, probably better just to not buy locked. :/ Oct 15 20:50:14 it's running Oo.o i heard Oct 15 20:50:22 gimp, too? :) Oct 15 20:50:35 locked sim is a contractual issue Oct 15 20:51:07 cirzgamanti: I can't confirm this, but I think you get all the regular stuff Oct 15 20:51:38 afaik the n900 is just like a regular linux computer Oct 15 20:51:56 OK - so I finally typed "sudo gainroot"... and got "Enable RD mode if you want to break your device" what's that then? Oct 15 20:51:57 well yes, with 256M RAM :) Oct 15 20:52:26 lbt: guess you need to get rootsh package from extras. Oct 15 20:52:27 256 mb is plenty Oct 15 20:53:06 lbt, install rootsh Oct 15 20:53:22 that's interesting Oct 15 20:53:32 no, normal Oct 15 20:53:42 will Extras be enabled in closed mode? Oct 15 20:54:12 and 768 mb swap is excessive Oct 15 20:54:19 you mean drm mode? Oct 15 20:56:54 yes drm mode Oct 15 20:57:45 is it possible to add the debian repositories and install from those? Oct 15 20:58:15 Arkenklo: no Oct 15 20:58:29 oh noes D: Oct 15 20:58:51 lbt: why not, specifically? Oct 15 21:00:16 you can port apps from them fairly easily Oct 15 21:00:57 same reason you can't install debian repos to ubuntu Oct 15 21:00:57 what are the in-similarities? Oct 15 21:01:11 let me rephrase that: what differs Oct 15 21:01:46 a distro is a consistent set of packages - same compile arch; same libs etc. Oct 15 21:02:06 maemo makes mods to may packages and just isn't debian Oct 15 21:02:07 but as long as all dependencies are fulfilled, what's stopping you? Oct 15 21:02:12 nothing Oct 15 21:02:18 feel free to try it Oct 15 21:02:26 ah, well then Oct 15 21:02:27 some stuff will work Oct 15 21:02:32 but some will break Oct 15 21:02:39 that's what I thought Oct 15 21:02:40 on-disk layout varies Oct 15 21:02:49 we now have /opt Oct 15 21:02:58 * lbt gags slightly saying that Oct 15 21:03:07 <3 n900wallpapers.com Oct 15 21:03:32 aSIMULAter: tell wazd_ Oct 15 21:03:58 i have some uhm...wallapeprs which i did a few months ago which i can add in there ijust need to remember Oct 15 21:04:04 That's not me! Oct 15 21:04:07 * wazd_ runs Oct 15 21:07:11 lbt: tell what? :) Oct 15 21:07:19 n900wallpapers.com Oct 15 21:11:05 Hooray for EDGE fail. :( Oct 15 21:12:40 ~ping Oct 15 21:12:41 ~pong Oct 15 21:13:13 Damn, Google downgraded us to the mobile version. :( Oct 15 21:13:25 What? Oct 15 21:13:32 Hi Oct 15 21:13:34 GAN900: are you using the n900 bookmark? Oct 15 21:13:47 last time I typed google.com in sdk i went straight to desktop version. Oct 15 21:14:05 how do I enable extras-devel in FREMANTLE scratchbox target? Oct 15 21:14:18 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel fremantle free ??? Oct 15 21:14:30 Searching with the awesome bar. Oct 15 21:15:24 andn non-free if you want. Oct 15 21:15:32 hm Oct 15 21:15:43 that does not work for me... Oct 15 21:16:01 which file are you updating Oct 15 21:16:05 apt-get update fails Oct 15 21:16:07 W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' Oct 15 21:16:24 lcuk: /etc/apt/sources.list Oct 15 21:16:46 it was working some time ago Oct 15 21:16:52 but now it does not Oct 15 21:16:52 Ovi Maps pretty much doesn't work on EDGE. Oct 15 21:17:02 GAN900, map preload? Oct 15 21:17:19 Jaffa found a site which lets you download Oct 15 21:17:25 Map loading Oct 15 21:17:41 Yeah, was going to do it the real consumer way. Oct 15 21:17:43 http://handphone-solution.blogspot.com/2009/07/direct-download-for-ovi-maps-30-without.html Oct 15 21:18:02 yeah but if you had an n8x0 this was consumer way Oct 15 21:18:46 Well, this isn't an N8x0 Oct 15 21:19:28 * lcuk facepalms Oct 15 21:19:52 ok if anyone on n900 wants maps for their country/region in one go, dl from there and copy on Oct 15 21:20:26 this functionality should be part of pcsuite Oct 15 21:20:39 tho since ive never run pcsuite im not sure whether it is Oct 15 21:22:38 Hehe Oct 15 21:23:56 no it's not afaicr Oct 15 21:24:46 damnnation Oct 15 21:25:05 ~ping Oct 15 21:25:06 ~pong Oct 15 21:25:08 locusts? Oct 15 21:26:55 Gan900: got your thunk sound yet? Oct 15 21:27:28 FM transmitter sounds amazing. Oct 15 21:27:30 Nope Oct 15 21:27:47 k, i'!l try tonight. Oct 15 21:27:47 fm transmitter shouldnt make a single sound :S Oct 15 21:27:50 So much better than my shit cassette adaptor. Oct 15 21:27:51 if it does, see a doctor Oct 15 21:28:24 The last FM transmitter I tried was completely useless. Oct 15 21:28:26 *lol* Oct 15 21:28:26 What is the recommended method to build a package for Maemo (Diablo, host is Debian Lenny)? Oct 15 21:28:41 There's basically no clear frequencies at all in the whole FM band where I live. Oct 15 21:28:57 need more power! Oct 15 21:28:59 derf, me too. Oct 15 21:29:00 derf, at 3foot from the stereo, just override whatever you want Oct 15 21:29:08 i replace BBC radio 1 with NOKIA when i get in the car Oct 15 21:29:12 But this works really well so far. Oct 15 21:29:18 the only bad effect is mrs lcuk hits me cos she doesnt like my music Oct 15 21:29:25 lardman: I think whoever designed the transmitter was concerned about "battery life" or some crock like that. Oct 15 21:29:47 quite an interesting thing to be concerned at. Oct 15 21:29:59 derf: I've not even tried it yet, might do so tomorrow in the car Oct 15 21:30:08 heh @ battery uptime rated in the seconds Oct 15 21:30:38 I mean, I've got a cigarette lighter->USB adapter, so battery life shouldn't be that important. Oct 15 21:31:00 there used to be transmission power limits iirc Oct 15 21:31:07 FCC Oct 15 21:31:08 Silly FCC. Oct 15 21:31:13 "total_power = (charging)?200:100;" Oct 15 21:31:22 probably still are, but they used to be very strict - over in the UK they were banned for a long time Oct 15 21:31:23 damn USB charging. Oct 15 21:31:47 I can't charge this goddamn thing in the car without a Nokia charger. Oct 15 21:32:00 Hooray USB charging. :\ Oct 15 21:32:03 lardman, thats cos the CB/HAM squad used to happily talk about global radio communication with just a few amps Oct 15 21:32:08 and to think it was supposed to standarize *sigh* Oct 15 21:32:09 or ma or whatever it was Oct 15 21:32:24 Faildardize Oct 15 21:32:25 GAN900: There's a charger for Nokia that is USB-powered. Oct 15 21:32:35 GAN900, important point also, if there were some sort of charge dock Oct 15 21:32:38 it would be upside down Oct 15 21:33:23 Nokia needs to sell those factory diagnostic docks they had at the Summit. Oct 15 21:33:55 cpt_nemo it wont take a charge from a dumb charger with data pins. Oct 15 21:35:04 GAN900: You mean a charger that connects to the USB port on the tablet? Oct 15 21:35:59 Yes, if you buy one of those aftermarket USB chargers to connect a MicroUSB data cable to it wont charge. Oct 15 21:36:16 It either needs power pings only or negotiate. Oct 15 21:36:32 GAN900: I have one that plugs into the USB port of a computer and delivers the charge to the device through the little round plug that e.g. the N810 has. Oct 15 21:36:34 Which basically eliminates any real convenience. Oct 15 21:36:45 I'm assuming the charging jack of the N900 is the same. Oct 15 21:36:55 N900 is microusb Oct 15 21:36:56 Only Oct 15 21:37:10 Ah. The N810 has both. Oct 15 21:37:39 Yes, I know. ;) Oct 15 21:39:58 Is there a (reasonable) workaround for the problem that prevents the maemo-sdk tools etch-2008 from installing properly? Oct 15 21:41:39 What's the issue with being upside down if the screen inverts? Oct 15 21:44:02 SpeedEvil, if the phone rings and you pick it up Oct 15 21:44:09 there is a normal assumption to not have to rotate it Oct 15 21:44:18 ah Oct 15 21:44:34 I wish they'd standardised on a connector that diddn't suck so badly for docking Oct 15 21:45:13 yeah ive had docks for a while and especially if moving towards wanting portrait Oct 15 21:45:46 with 810 the stand was ok and kinda sturdy, but on the desk my devices live in the crate Oct 15 21:50:09 evening :) Oct 15 21:50:18 hi pupnik Oct 15 21:53:10 hmm, osso-abook stuff is confusing Oct 15 21:54:16 e.g. OssoABookProfileGroup is A smart group for currently present contacts. Oct 15 21:54:31 but I don't see any signal to tell you the underlying group has changed Oct 15 21:55:33 presumably I must be able to add a callback to some signal rather than needing to continaully poll and check if anyone has gone/come online Oct 15 21:55:57 then there is OssoABookRoster — Presence aware addressbook view. Oct 15 21:56:21 which has some signals, but they seem to be related to complete contacts being added/deleted from the database, rather than their status changing Oct 15 21:56:52 lardman, i think visibility status comes from the underlying provider Oct 15 21:56:57 which are you trying to add Oct 15 21:57:17 I want to obtain a list of online contacts, and be told when the list changes Oct 15 21:57:49 ahhh gnarly Oct 15 21:58:08 dude? Oct 15 21:58:13 ;) Oct 15 21:58:22 haha Oct 15 21:58:28 i dunno, ask jaffa what he found Oct 15 21:58:52 Gnarly's Not A Really Long acronYm? Oct 15 21:59:27 heh Oct 15 22:00:44 Jaffa: ping Oct 15 22:01:45 * GAN900 sighs. Oct 15 22:01:56 Forgot my wallet, of course. Oct 15 22:02:20 lardman, doesnt the OssoABookRoster have any kind of refreshed/updated signal Oct 15 22:02:51 yeah, but I'm not sure if it indicates contacts joining the roster or the underlying addressbook Oct 15 22:04:25 http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libosso-abook/OssoABookRoster.html#OssoABookRoster-status-message Oct 15 22:05:14 http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libosso-abook/OssoABookRoster.html#OssoABookRoster-contacts-changed Oct 15 22:05:24 yeah, but does it indicate stuff being added to the roster or the underlying addressbook? Oct 15 22:05:27 seem viable things to look at Oct 15 22:05:40 This signal is emitted when contacts of the underlying addressbook are changed. Oct 15 22:11:48 yuck, GtkTreeModel Oct 15 22:24:37 Stskeeps: hey Oct 15 22:25:01 i noticed 'gettext' (shell script) was looking for /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive on Mer (and not finding it) Oct 15 22:32:09 Jaffa, what's the resolution of the accelerometer? Oct 15 22:33:25 milli-g iirc Oct 15 22:33:33 though it's probably not actually that accurate Oct 15 22:33:51 should be in the wiki iirc Oct 15 22:33:53 lardman, yeah, just trying to find out what the minimum variation is Oct 15 22:33:57 crashanddie_, -1000..1000 appears to waver in steps of ~15 Oct 15 22:34:33 lcuk, lying on a still table, the values vary by over 20 Oct 15 22:34:50 yeah Oct 15 22:34:51 naybody knows the actual gmeter chip? Oct 15 22:34:59 that random noise is actually good for flow :) Oct 15 22:35:17 anyone know anything about McProfile? Oct 15 22:35:26 its what gets filtered out using the algo on the accel wiki page Oct 15 22:35:32 DocScrutinizer: in the kernel patch Oct 15 22:36:04 no source here yet ;-) Oct 15 22:37:32 repo? Oct 15 22:37:48 yello Oct 15 22:38:15 anyone know where i can aquire 8Gb or 16Gb sdhc card converted to mmc? Oct 15 22:38:44 found one site but dunno if the maker is still alive :) Oct 15 22:39:03 for 770? Oct 15 22:39:09 yes Oct 15 22:39:21 I see; no idea mind you, sorry Oct 15 22:39:28 lardman: found nice multimedia player so its still quite usable :) (canola2 beta) Oct 15 22:39:29 anyway, afaik datasheets of all gmeter chips are publically available Oct 15 22:39:33 ah too bad Oct 15 22:39:46 would be nice still to use this old lady :) Oct 15 22:39:56 someone may know, just not me Oct 15 22:40:29 DocScrutinizer: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/ Oct 15 22:40:31 wow, maemo.org boot vid sequence http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=347896 Oct 15 22:40:37 GeneralAntilles, you seen this ^ Oct 15 22:41:04 Isn't it his? Oct 15 22:41:26 Oh, never mind. Oct 15 22:41:47 lcuk, you need to learn to indent and comment your code :P Oct 15 22:41:57 and need more talking variable names Oct 15 22:42:05 lardman: thanks. Alas (for crashanddie_ ) I won't grep it for the gmeter chip name. So probably I can't help ATM Oct 15 22:43:09 just grep it for accelerometer Oct 15 22:43:15 crashanddie_, code IS indented, and the variable names are there and gone immediately, though, there is some useless mem copies in that version Oct 15 22:43:46 int bx=*ax; Oct 15 22:44:07 yeah Oct 15 22:44:12 I just spent 30s trying to remember what the =* operator was, and how it could apply to a non-instantiated variable Oct 15 22:44:19 *ax=oax+(bx-oax)*0.1; Oct 15 22:44:22 i just hate mixing up operators and conversions - it muddles with my head Oct 15 22:44:22 OK Oct 15 22:44:50 for someone reading the code, trying to track what ax, oax and bx map to is just nastiness Oct 15 22:45:00 pure evil Oct 15 22:45:02 :P Oct 15 22:45:16 and? Oct 15 22:45:27 look at algo for converting YUV to RGB Oct 15 22:45:27 Y = ( ( 66 * R + 129 * G + 25 * B + 128) >> 8) + 16 Oct 15 22:45:27 U = ( ( -38 * R - 74 * G + 112 * B + 128) >> 8) + 128 Oct 15 22:45:27 V = ( ( 112 * R - 94 * G - 18 * B + 128) >> 8) + 128 Oct 15 22:45:47 just saying, if you're going to use your own code to show an example, at least make the effort of making it readable Oct 15 22:45:49 * lcuk hates evil conversions but they work Oct 15 22:46:16 its a wiki! Oct 15 22:46:20 show us how to do it:P Oct 15 22:46:36 I can understand you don't give a shit about the people who want to work with you, but if you're going to promote your own code, at least make it roughly understandable Oct 15 22:47:05 ps, note the python interface above mine ;) Oct 15 22:47:11 hi Oct 15 22:47:37 and that, sadly, is one of the reasons I've never produced a single interesting thing using liqbase, and probably why nobody else has (excepted for zach). You're an amazing coder, but fuck me if you can work with other people Oct 15 22:47:58 you just spend more time trying to catch up with what you're doing than anything interesting Oct 15 22:48:29 some one know wat is the comand for offline mode on 810 Oct 15 22:48:32 nahhh seb i just following an idea Oct 15 22:48:48 to put in personal menu as shorcut Oct 15 22:48:49 crashanddie_: LIS302 3axis gmeter chip for instance has +/-2g / +/-8g range, and a 8bit readout register per axis Oct 15 22:49:42 crashanddie_: Tell us what you really think. ;) Oct 15 22:49:50 zerojay, trust me, I softened Oct 15 22:50:19 crashanddie_: Yeah, it's not hard to see that you're a very 'no bullshit' kind of guy. Oct 15 22:50:46 zerojay, I blame hugh laurie Oct 15 22:50:51 crashanddie_: lol Oct 15 22:52:25 wow slow connection Oct 15 22:53:38 anybody just starting with osm? Oct 15 22:53:44 crashanddie_, at any point in the last 18 months i could have stopped and concentrated on one application. believe me, enough people say it. but i have a bigger idea and to implement that i need to know that i can handle everything Oct 15 22:53:55 setting initial edit region is too hard Oct 15 22:54:05 lcuk, that's your fucking problem mate, you can't handle everything Oct 15 22:54:09 pupnik: I've done it for a while Oct 15 22:54:13 talk about illusion of grandeur Oct 15 22:54:25 pupnik: in what client Oct 15 22:54:25 when in doubt mail the list and ask for help Oct 15 22:54:32 my motto for the week Oct 15 22:54:36 pupnik: also #osm over on irc.oftc.net Oct 15 22:54:43 osm2go on n900 Oct 15 22:54:54 asks for lat + long Oct 15 22:55:10 crashanddie_, of course i cant handle everything, but i have a pretty damned good idea what works and what doesnt Oct 15 22:55:11 need to retry now with network Oct 15 22:55:22 got to file bugreports though! Oct 15 22:55:30 lcuk, you keep trying to get a job, but pure technical genius won't land you a job, any sound business person will hire 10 mediocre geniuses who know how to document their code than 1 who can't Oct 15 22:55:33 pupnik: just used josm and potlatch - the flash editor Oct 15 22:55:55 s/code than/code rather than/ Oct 15 22:55:55 crashanddie_ meant: lcuk, you keep trying to get a job, but pure technical genius won't land you a job, any sound business person will hire 10 mediocre geniuses who know how to document their code rather than 1 who can't Oct 15 22:56:35 people have different skills Oct 15 22:57:21 the only it'll get you is working for some idiot who has no idea what you're on about, will underestimate you, exploit you and give you crap stuff to do Oct 15 22:58:45 so then have you idea how it should be done. Oct 15 22:59:55 lcuk: the man talks sense Oct 15 23:00:07 indeed he does Oct 15 23:00:25 but i have an idea and im trying to make it work Oct 15 23:01:16 i like how maemo5 feels a lot like liqbase - lots of flicky scroll action Oct 15 23:02:27 can sketches or other files be linked to calendar entries? Oct 15 23:02:43 just sketches for now Oct 15 23:02:48 but anything technically possible Oct 15 23:04:24 i was amused to see the very alpha status of the games Oct 15 23:04:41 i was thinking of maemo lcuk Oct 15 23:05:12 ahh other way round, dont think so, and ical doesnt support em i dont think Oct 15 23:07:22 i could not find a data sim yet - youj? Oct 15 23:07:28 yeah Oct 15 23:07:34 o2 normal one works Oct 15 23:07:42 the dude said "no data until official release" Oct 15 23:07:46 ahh Oct 15 23:08:32 crashanddie_, so come on then, how do i make liqbase more open. its had the stuff i want to do in it for this long, im comfortable with most of what the n8x0 and n900 series can do Oct 15 23:08:41 how do we bring it to the users' perspective Oct 15 23:08:43 so its useful Oct 15 23:09:07 lcuk, same thing I've been asking for the past year Oct 15 23:09:20 documentation, documentation, documentation, roadmap Oct 15 23:09:48 ok Oct 15 23:10:05 to document it i will need help. zach and i went through an awful lot Oct 15 23:10:31 but more is needed, it will involve me talking more Oct 15 23:10:51 im not gonna document this to your standards on my own Oct 15 23:10:57 stop changing code and do the docs? Oct 15 23:11:06 yes, thats mostly happened now Oct 15 23:11:13 i work mainly in the app side Oct 15 23:11:20 than bug fixes in the library Oct 15 23:11:29 I'd also like to see you focus on writing an app that uses the framework Oct 15 23:11:49 i have been writing a presentation program this last 2 weeks Oct 15 23:11:54 cool Oct 15 23:11:56 i can open up the development of that Oct 15 23:12:02 it involves multiple slides Oct 15 23:12:13 and video out? Oct 15 23:12:16 designed as liqbase windows Oct 15 23:12:17 yes Oct 15 23:12:23 and bullet points and fonts? Oct 15 23:12:30 each slide can be ANYTHING from liqbase Oct 15 23:12:37 from a normal slide with words Oct 15 23:12:39 what does the liqbase windows do for it? Oct 15 23:12:40 and bright yellow backgrounds with blue text? (just kidding) Oct 15 23:12:50 ah, anything on any slide Oct 15 23:12:54 yes Oct 15 23:13:01 so in the middle of a slide on one of the page Oct 15 23:13:06 i might have a user list Oct 15 23:13:12 which i can click and pop out Oct 15 23:13:14 or scroll around Oct 15 23:13:18 during the presentation Oct 15 23:13:39 fully working widgets on a fully multi desktop presentation Oct 15 23:13:48 fully working on n8x0 and n900 Oct 15 23:13:50 why not just allow straight video out for the playground? Would that not achieve the same thing? Oct 15 23:13:54 i do Oct 15 23:13:55 yes Oct 15 23:14:02 it has next/prev buttons Oct 15 23:14:04 video out already works on playground Oct 15 23:14:11 ah ok Oct 15 23:14:17 lardman, he demoed it at odz Oct 15 23:14:20 next/prev work on n8x0 MUCH better than kinetic swipe panning Oct 15 23:14:29 yes, the video out portion Oct 15 23:14:30 crashanddie_: ah yes I remember now Oct 15 23:14:41 the presentation software was only a glimmer of an idea Oct 15 23:15:03 what is the right way to auto-download "podcasts" to tablet? Oct 15 23:15:04 i was using it at the summit Oct 15 23:15:12 and was going to do presentation in it Oct 15 23:15:19 well for presentation/video out make sure you add a starburst whereever the touch occurs so people can see it happen, if you're going to demonstrate a component rather than the contents Oct 15 23:15:21 lcuk, the main problem I see, is that from an end-user perspective, nothing has changed since you initially demoed the software one year ago Oct 15 23:15:33 nice idea lardman Oct 15 23:15:44 could be a plugin type applet Oct 15 23:15:48 pupnik: was needed for all the demos, was really hard to tell what was happening Oct 15 23:16:01 lardman, yup, hard to follow, we don't know where the cursor is Oct 15 23:16:09 because it's connected to someone else's finger Oct 15 23:16:13 lcuk: I'd be tempted to turn liqplayground into a desktop replacement Oct 15 23:16:38 or as a quick hack just enable x pointer for demos Oct 15 23:16:40 allow app launching, etc Oct 15 23:16:43 like i said lardman, ive got an idea Oct 15 23:16:53 liq* applets ARE apps Oct 15 23:16:59 what is your idea? Oct 15 23:17:05 the battery goes from 8 pixels upto fullscreensize Oct 15 23:17:11 yeah, but they aren't the apps everyone is used to Oct 15 23:17:22 they are the apps I can create Oct 15 23:17:26 the apps i like Oct 15 23:17:33 fiferboy has a birdwatching program Oct 15 23:17:36 you have a barcode app Oct 15 23:17:40 lcuk, I know what I said before about nothing changing is absolutely not true, I know of all of the applets you wrote, that being said, they are extremely personal, and I'm yet to hear about anyone using liqbase on a daily basis the way you do (notes, calendar) Oct 15 23:17:42 jaffa has hermes Oct 15 23:17:46 .... Oct 15 23:17:48 ok, but for other people to use it day-to-day you'll need to let them use their old favs Oct 15 23:18:00 im trying to learn nokias framework Oct 15 23:18:10 * lcuk nods Oct 15 23:18:20 lcuk, I hate my handwriting, I hate it even more on a touchscreen cuz it's awkward and weird to write on it Oct 15 23:18:57 (no press feedback, etc) Oct 15 23:19:05 i'm trying to learn opengl es and scratchbox is being a pita :( Oct 15 23:19:07 (compared to pen and paper) Oct 15 23:19:18 is there a public summit feed to submit pics to? Oct 15 23:19:27 pupnik, maesum tag Oct 15 23:19:32 lardman, lets put it this way, i dont care about the implementation - maemo is multicultured and if its possible in gtk and someone writes it , im happy Oct 15 23:19:34 another option is to keep it as a playground and just go completely for cool hacks - handwriting recog, new desktop ui ideas, etc., etc Oct 15 23:19:48 it is for ideas :) Oct 15 23:19:58 lcuk: sure, I was just thinking of how to get people using it day to day Oct 15 23:20:10 lcuk, how do you sell that? Oct 15 23:20:21 crashanddie_, depends who your customer is Oct 15 23:20:28 lcuk, your employer Oct 15 23:20:43 lcuk, why would I hire you, based on liqbase? Oct 15 23:21:03 crashanddie_, for an employer i have spent 9 years coding up specific implementations of things to spec Oct 15 23:21:11 thats not an issue Oct 15 23:21:33 this is open source i can do it at my own leasure - i am customer #1 who is using the software perfectly well every day Oct 15 23:21:44 lcuk, you want a job where you can play with this device, why would I want you on my team? Oct 15 23:22:19 because i make things happen Oct 15 23:22:35 because of experience designing software for anh employer also Oct 15 23:22:48 i have never to date failed at anything commercial i have done Oct 15 23:23:03 oooh i hung the web shortcuts app Oct 15 23:23:12 try doing the odz stuff on gtk or qt Oct 15 23:23:24 or anywhere else Oct 15 23:23:43 the odz stuff is just reading the accelerometer input and sending it to the server Oct 15 23:23:49 try it Oct 15 23:24:28 lcuk, and I've been doing what, exactly, for the past 3 hours? Oct 15 23:24:58 lcuk, I'm just waiting for the PySide guys to fix the packages and upload them to extras Oct 15 23:26:20 anyway, I've made my initial point Oct 15 23:26:38 I'm out, take care everyone Oct 15 23:26:44 cheers Oct 15 23:27:11 the dedicated camera button is sweer Oct 15 23:27:12 t Oct 15 23:27:50 i can get video recording started much faster than with my real camera Oct 15 23:28:31 slight jerkiness in panning and motion though Oct 15 23:28:39 hope that can be ironed out Oct 15 23:32:02 why does scratchbox have to suck so much? Oct 15 23:32:39 ali1234 what are you using as a base / example project? Oct 15 23:32:51 nothing Oct 15 23:32:55 don't you just hate realising you've not put the bins & recycling out just before you go to bed? Oct 15 23:33:12 yes Oct 15 23:33:18 dont you just hate getting a summons for putting your bins out the night before they collect! Oct 15 23:33:22 pupnik: i'm just trying to compile the hellotriangle thing Oct 15 23:33:27 thats almost illegal now isnt it lardman Oct 15 23:33:57 well, who's going to wander round at this time of night? ;) Oct 15 23:34:05 and they want everything out before 7am too Oct 15 23:34:17 yeah lol Oct 15 23:34:26 so now, technically its morning and before 7am! Oct 15 23:34:34 though they don't often collect before 11am Oct 15 23:34:39 yeah :) Oct 15 23:35:09 oh nice - gpe is avail Oct 15 23:35:27 good nite Oct 15 23:35:37 ey woglinde Oct 15 23:35:41 damn Oct 15 23:36:25 does the n900 kernel support nfs? Oct 15 23:37:06 heh another masochist Oct 15 23:37:12 hail brother Oct 15 23:42:34 for those who are interested: garage svn repos are read-write again, see http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021448.html Oct 15 23:42:45 good night or good day for you all Oct 15 23:43:15 night night chaps Oct 15 23:44:56 root partition full error uninformative "malformed database-schema - " Oct 16 00:02:10 <|R> wooo Zagg is on the way to make an N900 screen protector :) Oct 16 00:02:58 eehh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuBHDnpSFE0 Oct 16 00:05:34 <|R> nice :) Oct 16 00:05:47 <|R> So what's the video format for the boot up logo? Oct 16 00:07:43 dunno Oct 16 00:07:58 wheres the howto add pipe key Oct 16 00:18:57 |R, .avi works and seems that also support static images and sound ;) Oct 16 00:23:52 heh / fills fast Oct 16 00:34:54 "conversations" works nicely to catch/beep irc messages Oct 16 00:52:21 GAN900 your number changed? or has it always been 900 :/ Oct 16 00:53:52 yes no Oct 16 00:58:56 i think he got upgraded ;) Oct 16 01:00:27 he not the only one lol Oct 16 01:00:41 n810 users can gloat that they have superior speakers Oct 16 01:01:34 good thing the devices are on the whole interchangable Oct 16 01:01:51 the camera and phone just means i can take it outside Oct 16 01:02:17 n900 is amazing. godly. Oct 16 01:02:26 kbd so easy Oct 16 01:02:41 i have 1 gripe about keyboard only Oct 16 01:02:50 ? Oct 16 01:03:03 when configuring a machine i have to enter ip addresses Oct 16 01:03:25 i double tap alt key and type number Oct 16 01:03:36 so map question mark to "." Oct 16 01:03:36 and i have to go out of number mode to type a dot Oct 16 01:03:58 and assign question mael to fn+up-arrow Oct 16 01:04:05 its not that frequent, hence not problem Oct 16 01:04:11 we do have 5 free keys on the right :) ! Oct 16 01:04:19 just the only time i notice Oct 16 01:04:27 same here Oct 16 01:04:47 it works if you hold alt to do number sequence Oct 16 01:04:55 just more fiddly Oct 16 01:05:05 alt+1 is hard to type with thumbs Oct 16 01:05:11 * lcuk nods Oct 16 01:06:18 fn+backspace = esc, fn + enter="bar" , fn+left="<" Oct 16 01:06:29 dunno bout fn up / down Oct 16 01:06:36 why oh why won't someone make a device in psion 5 form factor with up to date arm hardware? Oct 16 01:06:40 need tab also Oct 16 01:06:49 ^I Oct 16 01:07:22 how bout a keymapper applet? Oct 16 01:07:41 tab is ctrl + i Oct 16 01:07:48 That's what I said. Oct 16 01:08:19 ty! Oct 16 01:08:22 sorry i thought you just fell asleep on kb :) Oct 16 01:09:13 also note ctrl+enter does fullscreen toggle for some apps Oct 16 01:09:22 any other xterm tips? Oct 16 01:09:43 zoom keys change font size? Oct 16 01:10:23 what font is talk.maemo.org in Oct 16 01:10:40 has anyone ever successfully typed a ~ in xterm? Oct 16 01:10:45 dunno - see page source? Oct 16 01:12:25 ctrl-backspace returns to process overview Oct 16 01:17:47 rootfs 233344 bytes? Oct 16 01:18:16 /usr/share and /usr/lib are filling all that! Oct 16 01:22:02 Xisdibik, changed it last week. ;) Oct 16 01:22:32 It was GAN800 since about January 2007 before that. Oct 16 01:22:43 gan900 yo dude is your rootfs filling up fast? Oct 16 01:23:32 Not since people have been optifying. Oct 16 01:23:33 i just had to kill locales Oct 16 01:23:50 and sorry for missing the summit, pupnik_. :( Oct 16 01:23:51 well now im stuck Oct 16 01:24:10 was a great time man Oct 16 01:24:20 Kill the startup movie in /usr/share/hildon-welcome Oct 16 01:24:37 ty Oct 16 01:24:39 and make sure Fennec and xulrunner are gone. Oct 16 01:28:50 only /usr/share/microb-engine/defaults/pref/xulrunner.js found Oct 16 01:30:29 oh libxul.so is big Oct 16 01:35:31 omg browsing with hw key zoom rules :) Oct 16 01:44:24 just like a n810... Oct 16 01:46:30 no, this resizes fast Oct 16 01:46:37 hehe Oct 16 01:46:51 yea yeah, you people and your cortex CPUs Oct 16 01:46:56 not tempting users to hit plis several times wondering if it registered... Oct 16 01:46:57 blaah Oct 16 01:47:20 websites are real fast Oct 16 01:47:23 soooo, anyone interested in a slightly used n97? Oct 16 01:47:24 pc-like Oct 16 01:48:06 w00t Oct 16 01:48:08 i am totally sold btw Oct 16 01:48:25 my 90degree connector VGA cable arrived for my arcade Oct 16 01:48:33 was a pain in the ass to find one Oct 16 01:48:44 pupnik_: somehow I will justify buying one Oct 16 01:48:46 will try to find a special person to buy a n900 for :) Oct 16 01:48:49 lol Oct 16 01:49:12 how is the screen size Oct 16 01:49:12 want see some n900 pics from summit? Oct 16 01:49:17 fine Oct 16 01:49:40 i appreciate going back to n810 size tho Oct 16 01:49:41 pics of what? Oct 16 01:49:45 saw some videos Oct 16 01:49:50 unboxing ones *cry* Oct 16 01:49:52 only a few upliaded Oct 16 01:52:48 i find it amusing that this thing plays flash video better than my desktop pc does Oct 16 01:53:01 wait, no, i find it really annoying Oct 16 01:53:07 heh Oct 16 01:54:18 how olds your desktop Oct 16 01:54:28 really really old Oct 16 01:54:31 http://www.flickr.com/photos/7202378@N04/ Oct 16 01:54:46 need to upload rest Oct 16 01:54:59 and get lappy online for bugsquash Oct 16 01:56:40 I read at unwiredview.com that none of the N900 widgets are "scrollable". Is this accurate? Oct 16 01:57:08 no, there are scrolly number choosers Oct 16 01:57:39 e.g. setting date /time Oct 16 01:57:50 a good reviewer should notice those Oct 16 01:57:50 That's nto really a widget though is it? Oct 16 01:57:53 *not Oct 16 01:57:55 dunno Oct 16 01:58:01 scrolling is against the desktop ui guidelines. Oct 16 01:58:35 Manual, vertical scrolling is against the guidelines? Oct 16 01:58:40 panning too. Oct 16 01:59:05 Panning I understand. Oct 16 01:59:56 wait, might just be panning. Oct 16 02:00:03 rss scrolls. Oct 16 02:00:06 whats wrong with scrolling Oct 16 02:00:54 it sucks Oct 16 02:00:55 It seemed like a strange thing to omit, that's why the claim on unwiredview.com struck me. Oct 16 02:01:11 it just sucks less than other things. :) Oct 16 02:01:43 think rss is the only scrolling widget. Oct 16 02:01:50 So, on the AP news widget, there is no way to scroll back up, to view missed headlines... to use an example? Oct 16 02:02:25 i never tried it. Oct 16 02:03:00 twitter, facebook etc. I am I the only one who thinks that would be useful. :) Oct 16 02:03:14 let me try that sentence again... Oct 16 02:03:32 SpeedEvil: were you on the other night asking about a torrent? Oct 16 02:03:32 *Am I the only one who thinks that would be useful? Oct 16 02:03:34 seems like a good suggestion Oct 16 02:03:46 go to bugs and file an enhancement request Oct 16 02:04:01 facebook autoscrolls Oct 16 02:04:19 twitter fades in and out new tweets. Oct 16 02:06:35 countdown-home scrolls (sort of) Oct 16 02:08:06 I'm referring to manual scrolling really. Say, if I had 15 facebook messages, I think it would be nice to be able to scroll the list of new messages on the widget. Oct 16 02:08:45 Or, if there was a news headline that I wanted to revisit, scrolling via the widget to refresh my memory, etc. Oct 16 02:13:27 this root filesystem is a major issue for me Oct 16 02:13:51 why? Oct 16 02:14:06 it is full Oct 16 02:14:25 it is the same size as n800 Oct 16 02:14:57 only 35MB left for me. Oct 16 02:16:11 it means that game porters must CHANGE YOUR DESTINATION FOR SHARE AND LIBS Oct 16 02:16:12 i thought it had 2GB Oct 16 02:17:37 i.e. our apps need to install somewhere under /home or /home/user/MyDocs Oct 16 02:17:59 optify Oct 16 02:18:07 pupnik_: /opt is symlinked to /home/opt Oct 16 02:18:20 ahh Oct 16 02:18:34 but i agree, 32mb left on / has me worried Oct 16 02:19:42 nice solution, opt Oct 16 02:20:32 where do i file bug for a bad "filesystem full" error? Oct 16 02:26:12 i filled my root just reflashing and reinstalling my apps from backup. Oct 16 02:28:09 any big things i can manually optify? Oct 16 02:28:26 (while retaining ability to boot) Oct 16 02:28:35 Even my game wallpapers are optified. There's no excuses anymore. Oct 16 02:31:34 :) Oct 16 02:31:39 nice job Oct 16 02:31:50 how select text in browser? Oct 16 02:32:50 browser has javascript pausing! toggle-able! thank you nokia!! Oct 16 02:34:25 Select text in the browser by using the cursor. Oct 16 02:34:48 Drag your finger onto the screen from the left. The cursor box will come out. Click on it then click and drag to select text. Oct 16 02:35:55 i'd like a readable scrollable page of text Oct 16 02:36:21 which detects a sideways motion as selection, otherwise it acts to scroll Oct 16 02:36:36 on the n810 you can disable javascript after a time i changed it from 20 sec to 5 sec . it helps a lot Oct 16 02:40:47 nice Oct 16 02:41:00 zerojay - then how copy text? Oct 16 02:41:11 ctrl-c gives no feeback Oct 16 02:41:18 Ctrl+C or choose copy from the app menu. Oct 16 02:41:42 text is hilighted but there is no copy on app menu Oct 16 02:41:58 Works for me. Oct 16 02:42:30 What package should my package depend upon? It's a firefox plugin that needs to depend upon the browser. Oct 16 02:42:35 ctl-c worked but gave no confirmation Oct 16 02:42:53 an audio slurping sound for cut would helpngive feedback Oct 16 02:43:37 or snipping sound **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 16 02:59:57 2009