**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 17 02:59:57 2009 Oct 17 03:00:25 Yeah, it's executable. Probably something I didn't notice or don't know about. Probably just will ask jeremiah to look at it tomorrow. Oct 17 03:22:53 Why the hell did they put a text entry field in scrollable lists in the browser. Oct 17 03:29:12 i dunnoz Oct 17 05:04:27 What would you use for data storage in your apps? sqlite or your own flatfiles? Oct 17 05:05:21 RurouniJones: depends on the data, obviously Oct 17 05:05:41 Large amounts of text data for a quiz Oct 17 05:06:35 I am so used to using DBs. Haven't used my own flatfiles for years. I am wondering if there are any disadvantgaes of useing sqlite on a mobile device. I have never programmed for them before Oct 17 05:08:38 large amounts of data might better be a ZIP file Oct 17 05:08:58 especially if you only have one key Oct 17 05:09:18 I'm sure there's a library to do it. Oct 17 05:09:46 mm, point. I'll look into it Oct 17 05:12:50 I'm trying to build the maemo-oe work by rkirti and it cannot find a distribution package for glib2.0-2.18.1-1maemo4+0m5.tar.gz - it use to be under the maemo5.0beta tree. Any suggestions how to resolve this? I suspect I'll have to do the work to update Rkirti's stuff to beta2. Oct 17 05:13:39 i would like to have one tts app for my n810 ? have anyone tried to do such crazy thing ? Oct 17 05:13:51 lbaroudi: flite? Oct 17 05:16:14 i would like to have one tts app for my n810 ? have anyone tried to do such crazy thing ? :) Oct 17 05:16:47 what is flite luke :) ?? Oct 17 05:17:06 Woohoo, SDK finally installed and working. I am squealing like a small gitl. Oct 17 05:17:17 tts = text to speech ! Oct 17 05:26:02 lbaroudi: flite is a tts program - it works on my n810 Oct 17 05:29:47 thanks newandy ;) Oct 17 05:32:19 I am reading the various installation pages and just noticed. There is a Beta2 SDK and a Final SDK? Oct 17 05:32:44 For Maemo5 Oct 17 05:33:52 Most of the pages link to the beta2 installation instructions but I stumbled upon one called "Final SDK" Oct 17 05:36:57 that is because the final sdk is only available for the short time Oct 17 05:37:07 But maemo.org should link to it of course Oct 17 05:37:32 Ok, I wondered if that was the case Oct 17 05:59:00 qole really just didn't . . . http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=348736&postcount=88 Oct 17 06:05:05 Ahhahaahaha Oct 17 06:05:19 Frankly, I have been trying to find penguinbait but still do not know how he looks Oct 17 06:16:54 If it's typical density, it would create a 4 kiloton explosion in the Earth's atmosphere if it were to hit, which of course it won't. You'd expect an object of this size to fly within the orbit of the moon every few days or so. (that's tonight) Oct 17 06:34:13 Is there ongoing work to bring pyqt to freemantle? Oct 17 06:39:27 n810 and waht is mer ??????? Oct 17 06:39:37 what is google? Oct 17 06:40:10 RST38h: Some kind of search thingy for the intarweb Oct 17 06:41:09 http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/n900meetup/ Oct 17 06:41:11 not seen Oct 17 06:42:01 slightly implies avaiability of 80 n900s in helsinki on the 21st Oct 17 06:48:17 :) Oct 17 06:48:19 http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ Oct 17 06:48:28 Fails to actually mention that it's a phone too. Oct 17 06:48:53 Hehehe Oct 17 06:50:06 Who cares about that? Oct 17 06:50:39 what's the n900 meetup about? other than dates and locations, there doesn't seem to be much indication of what's going on Oct 17 06:50:55 nope. Oct 17 06:51:08 I'd be somewhat surprised if there weren't n900s there though Oct 17 06:51:12 No tokyo meetups. Shame :) Oct 17 06:51:42 heh when you click on Moscow orLondon, you can't go back Oct 17 06:51:50 i could understand maemo events... but an n900 meetup? Oct 17 06:53:19 the chicago meetup is a day before i go to toronto Oct 17 06:54:00 but if there are only 80 seats, it might be best if i knew what it was before i sign up, i suppose Oct 17 06:54:26 probably marketing thing Oct 17 06:54:34 yeah - only good if you're in the area Oct 17 06:54:51 bunch of bloggers come for freebies and get fed by marketing speeches Oct 17 06:54:52 I'd be really surprised if you couldn't buy one there though Oct 17 06:55:05 IF you can't, there will be riots. Oct 17 06:55:35 bloggers are kinda meek and they come for free goods anyway, so no riots Oct 17 06:55:51 Hmm no built in PDF reader with Maemo5? Oct 17 06:56:01 pdf reader is there Oct 17 06:56:58 Ok, jus tnot with the sdk? Oct 17 06:57:10 I am poking around the SDK version and can't find anything obvious Oct 17 07:03:16 Hehe, unintentionally morbid. Setup an event like a birthday and set it to repeart yearly then you have an option to specify until which year to repeat to. "When do you think this person is gonna die" Oct 17 07:03:58 normal :P Oct 17 07:09:45 Yeesh, I ain't making it easy for myself am I. I want to start programming for Maemo5 using qt and python Oct 17 07:12:17 oic Oct 17 07:13:36 yeah, i read that wrong too... november 2nd in chicago, not february 11th... i could catch the amtrak, but from the statements made, sounds not entirely worth the trouble of taking a day off of work Oct 17 07:14:00 "you’ll be able to meet and greet some Nokia folks and, of course, get hands-on experience with the Nokia N900." Oct 17 07:14:26 i hope the hands on i have at that point is with my own device Oct 17 07:14:30 hehe Oct 17 07:14:36 RurouniJones: Have you looked at pyside? Oct 17 07:14:59 No, Haven't seen any references to that yet Oct 17 07:15:41 ok, same goal as pyqt. Righto Oct 17 07:16:13 * RurouniJones will look into it. Ta Oct 17 07:16:14 Pyside is another python QT binding, from Nokia Oct 17 07:16:25 http://www.pyside.org/ Oct 17 07:16:26 god, the back button in browser is retarded. Oct 17 07:18:07 Ok, I am new to all of this so is my thining correct; Pyside is gonna bind Python to QT and QT will eventually add hildon widgets...so if I am understanding this correctly we will need pyside to also do bindings to the QT hildon widgets to get a nice lookin N900 app? Oct 17 07:30:58 RurouniJones: Which do you want, Hildon or Qt? Oct 17 07:31:36 If you want to make an app that looks 'native' for Maemo 5, you can use python-hildon Oct 17 07:32:30 http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon/Qt_Hildon_Widgets <- That rather implies that Qt will eventualy have hildon style widgets I thought. Oct 17 07:34:01 That's how I understood it also. Oct 17 07:34:43 So if we wnat to Use somethign like pyside and have a native looking app then we will need special bindings to these new Qt hildon style widgets? Oct 17 07:36:01 I don't know. Oct 17 07:36:32 Ok Oct 17 07:37:14 Maybe I'll start with python-hildon. Seems the least painful way for a beginner Oct 17 07:37:18 All I know is that the current UI is hildon, so 'get a nice lookin N900 app' like you mentioned before, you'd want to use python-hildon. Both Qt and Hildon will coexist, but I think it's a little early to start worrying about Qt if what you need is Hildon. Oct 17 07:39:46 Righto Oct 17 07:48:11 well, Qt maps to hildon widgets. Oct 17 07:48:23 and the Qt apps I have built for maemo 5 seems to look pretty good Oct 17 07:48:38 i.e. pretty similar to what you get out of a hildon program. Oct 17 07:49:13 and since maemo 6 will be qt all around it seems like a waste learning hildon now. better to go Qt directly. AND the API is nicer :) Oct 17 07:49:16 (imho of course) Oct 17 07:56:42 tru: I thought both Qt and Hildon will continue to coexist on Maemo 6 Oct 17 07:57:56 I've read some pretty bad reviews of pyside, but I don't have any first hand experience with it, so I don't know if it's mature enough to really work with. Oct 17 07:58:01 Lupu: yes, but Qt will be the first class citizen there. Oct 17 08:04:51 hi Oct 17 08:04:57 anybody use Mer here? Oct 17 08:05:50 -> #mer Oct 17 08:20:02 personal-ip-address tells me (no IP found) Oct 17 08:20:05 this can't be right Oct 17 08:20:26 in fact it isn Oct 17 08:20:28 't Oct 17 08:21:05 fiferboy isn't here... Oct 17 08:21:26 too bad. Oct 17 08:28:22 * RST38h killed Microsoft's "extension" to FireFox Oct 17 08:31:16 morning all Oct 17 08:31:26 mourning, lardman Oct 17 08:31:39 why so sad, rst? Oct 17 08:32:08 morning RST38h, mgedmin Oct 17 08:33:56 mgedmin: cloudy, cold, can't hunt down a bug Oct 17 08:34:47 On the bright side, VGBA & friends no longer consume any CPU in idle mode at all Oct 17 08:35:06 good Oct 17 08:35:17 I'd like to know why avahi-daemon likes to wake up 30 times a second Oct 17 08:35:47 let me read on it Oct 17 08:36:59 have you got anyone querying it over the network or locally? Oct 17 08:37:34 heh, firefox officially BLOCKED microsoft plugin just now Oct 17 08:37:46 which plugin? Oct 17 08:38:53 that stupid .NET plugin MS forced on us all Oct 17 08:39:04 Actually this list makes a good reading : https://www.mozilla.com/en-US/blocklist/ Oct 17 08:39:30 <`0660> on who? windows users? :) Oct 17 08:39:50 Microsoft, Apple, Anti-virus vendors, download managers Oct 17 08:41:54 mgedmin: http://en.kioskea.net/faq/sujet-2271-disabling-the-avahi-daemon Oct 17 08:49:08 RST38h: you misunderstand me; I want avahi-daemon running, I have trouble making sure it starts on startup on my N900, I just don't want it to eat any extra battery power Oct 17 08:49:58 30 times/sec does seem somewhat excessive Oct 17 08:50:54 there was a thread on tmo about nominating community people who couldn't make the summit for a free/loan device... anyone got the url? is anything happening? Oct 17 08:51:44 yeah, there was a big thread last night Oct 17 08:51:55 so far most people has been sorted out (did you have enough karma btw?) Oct 17 08:53:16 * mgedmin wants iptables again Oct 17 08:53:21 hmm, would like to get one to derf really, he was lots of help with the Tremor DSP stuff in the old days Oct 17 08:54:28 scratchbox's LD_PRELOAD overrieds the LD_PRELOAD I use to make apps use my socks proxy Oct 17 08:54:32 so I've got no internet in my scratchbox Oct 17 08:54:45 lbt: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32978 Oct 17 08:55:13 Stskeeps: yep, 2 devices isn't too much is it? Oct 17 08:55:20 lbt: i have no opinion on that matter atm :P Oct 17 08:55:25 heh Oct 17 08:56:29 lbt: i'm still balancing regarding sending it back to the pool and getting one of my own or what to do. Oct 17 08:56:53 i'm on my 5th reflash of the device, so a devel device is needed.. Oct 17 08:57:00 mgedmin: Unfrotunately I have not been able to find anything closer to what you need than the stuff above Oct 17 09:05:38 do improvement ideas to Calendar go to bugs.maemo.org or brainstorming ? Oct 17 09:08:22 Next probably stupid question. I can't see any references to positioning buttons (Stick to the right etc) from the pymaemo documentation. Is there some underlying gtk stuff I am supposed to know about that allows for this stuff? Oct 17 09:09:47 epa: large scale improvement goes to brainstorm, small fixes to bugzilla Oct 17 09:12:09 how about multiple small things that amount to large scale changes ;) Oct 17 09:12:37 multiple bug trackers. Oct 17 09:13:02 and if you want to have any chance of seeing them fixed, file them as problems (i.e. "Cannot do ... in Calendar") Oct 17 09:13:15 ack & tack Oct 17 09:13:27 RST38h: so enhancement requests go directly to trash? Oct 17 09:14:38 more or less Oct 17 09:34:29 Morning, all Oct 17 09:34:39 mornin Oct 17 09:35:02 hi Jaffa Oct 17 09:37:36 crappy cellular coverage here ... Oct 17 09:38:02 where would here be? Oct 17 09:38:38 right here (look where I'm pointing) Oct 17 09:38:52 the apartment I'm temporarily staying in Oct 17 09:39:01 move a few centimeters to a side and you're offline Oct 17 09:39:37 never had cell coverage issues in .se Oct 17 09:39:45 or well, never the last 5 years anyway Oct 17 09:42:48 * lardman curses libchamplain demo code for not working Oct 17 09:45:15 hmm, libchamplain is very slow, even without any maps loaded Oct 17 09:48:25 this demo seems to wait for a notify::state signal, where would one of those come from? Oct 17 09:49:45 hmm, apparently it should be issued from inside the code itself Oct 17 09:58:39 Any packaging gurus awake? Oct 17 09:58:46 fire Oct 17 10:00:27 My package installs an add-on for MicroB which requires the browser daemon to be restarted and all browser windows closed before the add-on is seen. I'm trying to pop up a dialog box telling the user this after the installation is complete using a postinst script, but it doesn't seem to work. :/ Oct 17 10:00:32 The script is named "postinst" and is executable. Oct 17 10:01:26 and you're sure it runs? Oct 17 10:02:04 I'm not sure, actually. Oct 17 10:02:18 postinst usually runs Oct 17 10:02:30 but showing a dialog durign installation is no longer that easy Oct 17 10:02:45 and might not be a good idea, though Oct 17 10:02:47 It's more than just maemo-confirm-text then? Oct 17 10:03:11 http://pastebin.com/d5dfebe13 Oct 17 10:03:16 maemo-confirm-text may well be missing from the device Oct 17 10:03:18 check Oct 17 10:03:34 It's there and works. Oct 17 10:03:56 And yes, my first line DOES have a # at the start, but pastebin ignored it. :/ Oct 17 10:04:24 weird Oct 17 10:04:45 yay n900 price dropped once more Oct 17 10:04:48 Is the postinst script supposed to be named just "postinst"? Oct 17 10:05:20 Sha? Oct 17 10:05:28 Shapeshifter: where? Oct 17 10:05:34 Corsac: well, in Switzerland ;) Oct 17 10:05:47 It's still more expensive than in the US I think Oct 17 10:05:57 not in uk Oct 17 10:06:03 but cheaper then in most parts of Europe Oct 17 10:06:27 especially in france ;p Oct 17 10:06:36 I just spent 400€ for a Touch Book and now i'm about to spend another 400€ when Nokia gives me a discount of the N900 =_= Oct 17 10:06:57 400€ ? Oct 17 10:07:08 I paid my touchbook 300€ Oct 17 10:07:15 you mean $400? Oct 17 10:07:19 It'd be nice - if I was a UK dev - if I could just take the cash - on producing my own purchased n900 Oct 17 10:07:38 Corsac, it's about 400€ with shipping + taxes + customs Oct 17 10:07:42 ha Oct 17 10:07:46 I didn't yet paid customs :) Oct 17 10:07:59 huh wait... the touchbook is out? the "Always Innovating" french touch book? Oct 17 10:08:00 uk dev - with the right karma. Oct 17 10:08:00 i haven't too Oct 17 10:08:19 Shapeshifter: yes Oct 17 10:08:21 well, kind-of Oct 17 10:08:57 rah Oct 17 10:09:18 I completely forgot about it Oct 17 10:09:22 (as a discounted n900 is more expensive than a real one with a contract) Oct 17 10:09:25 hmm Oct 17 10:09:26 no rotar: kernel-2.6.28/usr: Cannot mkdir: No space left on device Oct 17 10:09:35 is it possible to add screenshots to bugreports? Oct 17 10:09:44 SpeedEvil: but with a contract it'll be simlocked Oct 17 10:09:52 Corsac: doubt it Oct 17 10:09:52 which means only standard and signed kernels Oct 17 10:09:55 * epa_ does not seems to find attachments section in bug report page Oct 17 10:10:12 SpeedEvil: if it's not, fine for you :) Oct 17 10:10:17 (in France it'll definitely be) Oct 17 10:10:33 Corsac: I mean the current ones - there are secondary markets - stores - offering them direct - though the company does not. Oct 17 10:10:54 Corsac: vodafone et al Oct 17 10:11:04 will be sim locked here as well, guaranteed. but you can unluck it when the contact runs out Oct 17 10:11:24 *lock Oct 17 10:11:46 I'm unsure if they'd know how to simlock it. Oct 17 10:12:02 SpeedEvil: I'm pretty sure nokia will tell them Oct 17 10:13:34 "Unable to use FM transmitter while USB is connected. Unplug USB to continue using FM transmitter". Why??? Oct 17 10:14:53 I would suspect the USB acts like an antenna Oct 17 10:14:58 making the FM too strong Oct 17 10:15:53 And actually asking above phone shop, it would not be locked. Oct 17 10:16:23 Too strong FM would be a regulatory issue Oct 17 10:18:26 good point Oct 17 10:18:42 does that mean I can listen to FM radio by plugging in USB cable instead of plugging in headphones? Oct 17 10:18:55 umm Oct 17 10:18:58 probably not Oct 17 10:19:11 the headphones will have a seperate circuit to pick off the signal Oct 17 10:19:57 Think of it like the transmitter is a speaker, and the USB lead is a sounding board. Oct 17 10:20:03 speaking of radio, and jumping to internet radio Oct 17 10:20:18 It doesn't intentionally make it louder it just happens. Oct 17 10:20:20 the old dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_media_server /com/nokia/osso_media_server com.nokia.osso_media_server.video.play_media string:mms://hostname/etc no longer works in maemo 5 Oct 17 10:23:03 my internet connection here lets me listen to 2 seconds of radio, followed by 3 seconds of "buffering...", repeat ad nauseum Oct 17 10:23:33 there's a spot somewhere on the table where it shows 3.5G, but it's difficult to find Oct 17 10:23:37 now I'm on plain old 2G Oct 17 10:25:56 anyone thought about making lcars theme on n900, or is there any allready? Oct 17 10:26:12 gotta love lcars on my dusty ol'770 ^__^ Oct 17 10:39:06 * Jaffa mutters nasty things about tmo (perhaps incl. some of the new council *cough*) Oct 17 10:40:28 argh. switching off the n900 does not warn that you are still receiving data via bluetooth :-( Oct 17 10:41:45 andre__: File abug? Oct 17 10:42:01 no, that means more work. i'm the bugmaster :-P Oct 17 10:44:54 Anyone know some good pymaemo apps that would be a good example for looking at methods of laying out an interface on an N900? Oct 17 10:52:44 nokia forum form is pretty naff... "City... or Province" .... both mandatory... Oct 17 10:54:32 RurouniJones: gPodder uses GtkBuilder and is Python. My own Hermes just uses Gtk/Hildon directly and might help? Oct 17 10:55:13 Hmm, Hermes sounds good. Could you give me a link to the source? Oct 17 10:55:37 RurouniJones: http://hermes.garage.maemo.org/ has a link on the right hand side Oct 17 10:55:45 Gracias Oct 17 10:55:48 np Oct 17 10:56:25 RurouniJones: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=blob;f=package/src/gui.py;h=b82a71cc7a9c1e148d663303f30c0b622d4ed102;hb=HEAD is the direct interesting link Oct 17 10:56:54 Gotchya! Thanks Oct 17 10:57:11 I am learning Python, Hildon etc all in one go so an example of how things are done is always nice ;) Oct 17 10:57:34 Jaffa: Hard not to feel like muttering nasty things, eh? Oct 17 10:57:51 If you're talking about who I think you might be anyways. Oct 17 10:58:18 anybody know a way to interrupt a n900 reboot loop? Oct 17 10:58:35 zerojay: Someone I've never met in person, let's say... Oct 17 10:58:50 pupnik_: have you tried methods that work on n8x0? e.g. enable r&d mode Oct 17 10:58:53 looks like it's getting rebooted by the gps tracker desktop widget - i'd like to disable those Oct 17 10:59:02 dunno - have root installed Oct 17 10:59:08 RurouniJones: Not saying it's the best way - my Gtk/Hildon is rusty and I'm brushing up my Python at the same time :) Oct 17 10:59:17 pupnik_: try disabling watchdog Oct 17 10:59:21 Hehe, well better than nothing Oct 17 10:59:29 zerojay: You're doing a sterling job in running your own campaign for the next council election ;-) Oct 17 10:59:52 i can't do anything on the device mgedmin, :| Oct 17 10:59:52 RurouniJones: However, I like to think I can structure code well (although gui.py needs a *bit* of a refactor) Oct 17 10:59:57 So far I have muddled my way through the GTK/hildon classes and have a basic GUI up. But it is all fixed positioning etc....Since I come from a web-dev background this seems....wrong :) Oct 17 10:59:59 * mgedmin is available for Python questions, has used PyGtk in the past, hasn't played with Hildon Oct 17 11:00:07 RurouniJones: Ah yeah. Fixed positioning very bad. Oct 17 11:00:09 pupnik_: you can do that with flasher Oct 17 11:00:15 does flasher-3.0 work with a n900? Oct 17 11:00:16 RurouniJones: Layouts are the way to go. Oct 17 11:00:30 mgedmin: Earlier firmware drops from danielwilms included a new Flasher Oct 17 11:00:31 GOOD idea mgedmin ty Oct 17 11:00:41 I am arranging buttons using gtklayou.put(button,x,y) style things Oct 17 11:00:55 Jaffa: lol... well, thanks. Not trying to.. just trying to get shit I want to see done. :) Oct 17 11:01:48 RurouniJones: Yeah, you want to set constraints and using boxes etc. Fixed positions won't let your apps run on Mer on devices with different screen sizes (or a possible future Maemo device), won't work with auto-portrait, won't work if the theme has a different font size Oct 17 11:02:33 RurouniJones: check out http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html Oct 17 11:02:43 specifically, http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/ch-PackingWidgets.html#sec-TheoryOfPackingBoxes Oct 17 11:03:06 Ooooo, spiffy. I never seen that site before...guess I have been to specific in my searches Oct 17 11:03:18 * mgedmin just googled for "pygtk tutorial" Oct 17 11:05:10 I started using python today. I have been searching on specifics like pymaemo, hildon etc Oct 17 11:06:41 wazd should set up a donation box for his stuff Oct 17 11:07:29 it is possible that more specific tutorials exist Oct 17 11:08:33 ~seen rkirti Oct 17 11:08:35 rkirti was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 8d 14h 38m 7s ago, saying: 'kergoth: thanks :)'. Oct 17 11:08:35 Jaffa: security stuff... Oct 17 11:08:39 hm Oct 17 11:09:16 Ok, this is making much more sense now, thanks Jaffa and mgedmin Oct 17 11:10:16 Jaffa: wondering about sorting out the security questions a bit to see if we can make it a bit more structured Oct 17 11:14:57 Has anyone gotten OpenVPN to work with Fremantle? Oct 17 11:15:06 I'm surprised there isn't a package for that in extras yet. Oct 17 11:17:13 lbt: I think we can. Not sure how! Oct 17 11:17:32 woglinde has qtnx working for freenx on n8x0 Oct 17 11:17:37 it's easier with more than one brain Oct 17 11:17:47 thinking about major groupings Oct 17 11:18:01 zerojay: popups during app installation really irritated me in maemo 4 Oct 17 11:18:02 open/closed mode; drm; kernel; boot Oct 17 11:18:12 and then putting questions in there Oct 17 11:18:16 mgedmin: Why? Oct 17 11:18:19 say you restore your app list from a backup, leave the app manager in the background, go browse web Oct 17 11:18:20 lbt: yeah, that sounds sensible Oct 17 11:18:29 zerojay: Because they didn't work over ssh. Oct 17 11:18:43 so... major headings ? Oct 17 11:18:44 hours later switch back and see that the reinstallation process is stopped after the first three apps because the third one asks a silly question Oct 17 11:18:50 A non-blocking pop-up would be fine. Oct 17 11:18:54 "ooh, which menu do you want my icon to appear in?" Oct 17 11:19:02 I DONT CARE DAMNIT JUST GO INSTALLING THE REST Oct 17 11:19:10 But blocking ones just meant that the installation would stall for no apparent reason. Oct 17 11:19:13 "ooh, please restart your browser windows to use the new plugin" Oct 17 11:19:22 Well, tell me how I can tell the user some information that won't block then. Oct 17 11:19:34 http://pastebin.com/d3337bd6a Oct 17 11:19:44 zerojay: yellow notification bar Oct 17 11:19:54 "adblock will be available when you restart your browser" Oct 17 11:20:03 mgedmin: And I do that from postinst how exactly? Oct 17 11:20:08 lbt: DRM, Kernel, Capabilities (what was the term Elena used?), Bootloader? Oct 17 11:20:14 I wish I knew... Oct 17 11:20:21 zerojay: What are you doing on postinst now? Oct 17 11:20:25 *in Oct 17 11:20:25 lbt: Not sure "open/closed mode" is that useful - since it breaks down into the others and confuses people as to what it means Oct 17 11:20:50 ok Oct 17 11:20:52 person who ported Xournal for maemo wouldn't happen to be here? Oct 17 11:20:55 mgedmin: Well, when you figure out how to popup a hildon banner from a .deb, you let me know. Oct 17 11:20:56 (bootROM) Oct 17 11:21:04 epa_: anidel (doesn't appear to be) Oct 17 11:21:18 derf: Nothing apparently. I'm actually searching for help because my postinst doesn't appear to work. :/ Oct 17 11:21:21 zerojay: tell me how to popup a hildon banner from the cmdline, and I'll tell you how to do that from a .deb ;) Oct 17 11:21:25 something with dbus-send probably Oct 17 11:21:30 zerojay: echo -e 'import hildon\n....' | python / ;-) Oct 17 11:21:33 Jaffa: ok thanks Oct 17 11:21:47 zerojay: Oh dear. Oct 17 11:21:47 zerojay: Open a web page? ;-) Oct 17 11:22:15 zerojay: for debugging, put 'touch /tmp/postinst-worked' in your postinst, then see if the file appears Oct 17 11:23:14 Yeah, I'm going to do that. Oct 17 11:23:19 Jaffa: (and others crashanddie_ ?) http://pastebin.com/d7800b4bc Oct 17 11:24:13 zerojay: look in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ Oct 17 11:24:18 see if the postinst is there Oct 17 11:24:49 lbt: s/Functionality/Framework/? Oct 17 11:24:56 any recommendations for an irc client on the n900 ? Oct 17 11:25:13 lbt: After the package installs? Oct 17 11:25:15 nah - focus on specific "what" Oct 17 11:25:16 lbt: Maybe a section for people who want to lock & customise their own devices from scratch (e.g. OEMs) Oct 17 11:25:21 zerojay: yes Oct 17 11:25:25 ok Oct 17 11:26:10 Jaffa: http://pastebin.com/d687ee9cb Oct 17 11:26:46 mgedmin: BTW any news on XChat? Oct 17 11:27:06 RST38h: I haven't heard anything (and haven't done anything) Oct 17 11:27:07 lbt: good idea Oct 17 11:27:13 mgedmin: The version from qwerty coredumps when saving preferences, although it is the most recent version in the Extras right now Oct 17 11:27:15 did qwerty reupload his package? Oct 17 11:27:26 Well he did, but it crashes when saving prefs Oct 17 11:27:43 oops Oct 17 11:28:03 lbt: a section for end-user FAQs which we'll maintain (a comment at the top saying "this is community answers to common FAQs based on the technical answers below"? Oct 17 11:28:08 http://pastebin.com/d355999e9 Oct 17 11:29:18 mgedmin: So I suggest you reupload yours for now :) Oct 17 11:29:39 Jaffa: Speaking of end user FAQs, something came up Oct 17 11:30:28 Jaffa, where would the "Customisation" part come up in? Oct 17 11:30:34 Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=349425&postcount=62 Oct 17 11:30:39 http://pastebin.com/d2583bd22 Oct 17 11:30:50 * lbt wondered that too Oct 17 11:30:57 Enterprise dm_crypt ? Oct 17 11:30:57 Jaffa: I gave some directions on this in the thread, but I think it does deserve a clean, illustrated page with instructions Oct 17 11:31:15 RST38h: Agreed. http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing isn't very user friendly. Oct 17 11:31:26 getting s/wich back in sec - edit pastebin if you like :) Oct 17 11:31:37 * Jaffa goes to get some crackers Oct 17 11:31:40 hm, advanced users can sudo apt-get install xchat=2.8.6-maemo10fremantle1 Oct 17 11:31:45 Jaffa: Really need to make a dumb page with screenshots Oct 17 11:31:46 lbt, Jaffa, I would like to see a credential management system, that would allow people to recover their keys securely if they move to another device Oct 17 11:32:10 mgedmin: Thanks Oct 17 11:32:10 lbt, Jaffa, allowing them to keep using all of their data, regardless if it is DRM'd or not Oct 17 11:32:27 RST38h: Agreed. Both for users (i.e. testers) and authors Oct 17 11:32:29 mgedmin <-- advanced user Oct 17 11:32:34 Jaffa: There is one more issue Oct 17 11:32:50 RST38h: Pretty big diagrams with smiling people and large friendly arrows Oct 17 11:33:07 Jaffa: I will not comment on the 10-votes-for-each-version policy, but the current way of voting is cumbersome and messy Oct 17 11:33:07 arrows that smile Oct 17 11:33:16 Jaffa: can skip on smiling people Oct 17 11:33:19 crashanddie_: with flowers Oct 17 11:33:28 Jaffa, and pastel colours Oct 17 11:33:37 RST38h: In what way? Isn't it "log on, press up/down, leave comment if downer"? Oct 17 11:33:43 crashanddie_: Always got to have the pastel colours Oct 17 11:33:49 true Oct 17 11:33:52 Jaffa: Oh, no, have you tried it yourself? Oct 17 11:34:17 RST38h: I have Oct 17 11:34:17 Jaffa, that being said, wasn't one of the talks at the summit "we have to state the obvious"? Oct 17 11:34:17 Jaffa: Start here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ Oct 17 11:34:17 RST38h: Not as much as I should, admittedly Oct 17 11:34:34 Jaffa: Click on the package: http://maemo.org/packages/view/tennix/ Oct 17 11:34:50 crashanddie_: Never assume your audience has any intelligence ;-) Oct 17 11:34:58 Jaffa: click on the right version and architecture: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/tennix/1.0-2 Oct 17 11:35:03 RST38h: Oh yeah, it's quite buried in the version and arch Oct 17 11:35:11 Jaffa: Vote there Oct 17 11:35:19 Jaffa: So this is NOT easy Oct 17 11:35:27 RST38h: Indeed. Oct 17 11:35:34 Jaffa: And I really think we have to have vote up/down right in the first page Oct 17 11:35:39 Each arch gets different votes too Oct 17 11:35:49 Jaffa: We only care about latets on armel Oct 17 11:36:00 Jaffa: This is kinda non brainer :) Oct 17 11:36:00 rst listed what you must to do, but didn't mention what you should do: open up voting guidelines and make sure you checked everything that the app should do right Oct 17 11:36:00 no we don;t Oct 17 11:36:20 mgedmin: If app works for the user, the user votes it up. Oct 17 11:36:23 RST38h, we provide x86 scratchbox, thus we need to make sure it is tested as well, and correctly migrated Oct 17 11:36:23 X-Fade: Any concrete plans for improving the UI for testers/karma per version (not per version + arch)? If not, we can draft an email or a bug Oct 17 11:36:26 mgedmin: this is it Oct 17 11:36:34 mgedmin: Indeed Oct 17 11:36:38 crashanddie: Do you want ALL end users know about it? Oct 17 11:36:47 what about things like 'make sure the icon is there' and 'make sure it doesn't kill your battery life'? Oct 17 11:36:54 RST38h, of course not, but QA should not be done by end users Oct 17 11:36:57 crashanddie: these are guys with N900s. Why should they even SEE i386 packages? Oct 17 11:37:13 crashanddie: Surprise, Sherlock, current scheme assumes that QA is done by end users Oct 17 11:37:20 advanced end users I guess Oct 17 11:37:22 really? Oct 17 11:37:25 wow Oct 17 11:37:26 yep Oct 17 11:37:27 I admit that if I *had* to do QA at that level, I would probably *never* vote, because it would be too much effort Oct 17 11:37:30 sorry then, i'll stfu Oct 17 11:37:59 mgedmin: See, Marius, you are now looking into the same abyss as me Oct 17 11:38:05 Too much effort to click on a link or two? Oct 17 11:38:13 such as, anyone who went to the summit Oct 17 11:38:17 mgedmin: Unfortunately, Niels et al have not reached this point of understanding yet Oct 17 11:38:46 zerojay, it's already too much effort for people to go to bugzilla, you honestly believe they'll give a shit about having the app in extras rather than testing, as long as it runs on their device? Oct 17 11:38:49 It takes three clicks to go from the list of packages in extras-testing to posting your vote. Oct 17 11:38:51 RST38h: I think that's unfair. It's just there's a lot of infrastructure and X-Fade's not a UI guy Oct 17 11:39:02 interesting discussion Oct 17 11:39:10 Jaffa: It is not about infrastructure or UI Oct 17 11:39:12 So, let's start pulling together concrete suggestions - preferably even with HTML ;-) Oct 17 11:39:30 zerojay: and how many clicks from my browser start page to the package list? Oct 17 11:39:31 Jaffa: The current Extras promotion scheme is doomed to keep Extras empty, this is what it is about Oct 17 11:39:31 app manager supports voting Oct 17 11:39:36 how about a few functional 'forms' for N900 prototype testers to use... Oct 17 11:39:43 RST38h: It is; cos the software's being written by one person whilst the process is being defined Oct 17 11:39:43 Start here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ -> click on package version number -> click thumbs up/thumbs down. Is it really that hard? Oct 17 11:39:44 Jaffa, app manager supports voting and promotion pupnik <--- sayeth the truth Oct 17 11:40:12 crashanddie_: Not going to happen. However, the community app built on top of HAM and pulling down screenshots/comments etc. from maemo.org/downloads could Oct 17 11:40:27 Jaffa: So, yes, we should at least partially fix the braindead promotion policy by making it easy to vote and comment Oct 17 11:40:47 Jaffa: THIS can be done with HTML and infrastructure changes alone Oct 17 11:40:48 workaround: blog posts Oct 17 11:40:54 Jaffa, not possible to write our own app manager? Oct 17 11:40:56 RST38h: How about constructively raising criticisms of the promotion policy on -community or -developers? Oct 17 11:41:02 crashanddie_: Indeed, that's what's coming apparently. Oct 17 11:41:13 Jaffa: I have raised these issues here with Niels a few times Oct 17 11:41:18 RST38h: And yes, at the same time, doing HTML and UI changes to make it easier to vote Oct 17 11:41:19 mgedmin: Btw, only one click to go from browser start page to the package list. Oct 17 11:41:32 "I have just released froobazle 0.2.4-17maemo27whoopsydaisy3, here's a shiny screenshot; if you're a power user upgrade it from extras-devel and please go vote here: [full url to voting page for that particular version]" Oct 17 11:41:33 Jaffa: I do not think the understanding of this problem has sunk in yet though Oct 17 11:41:34 RST38h: X-Fade doesn't define the promotion policy. He's just implementing /packages/ Oct 17 11:41:49 true mgedmin Oct 17 11:41:49 RST38h: It's unfair to rail at one guy when it's been discussed on mailing lists Oct 17 11:41:55 Start here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ -> click on package version number -> click thumbs up/thumbs down. Is it really that hard? Oct 17 11:41:58 zerojay, see comment above addressed to you Oct 17 11:42:06 Jaffa: Well, I strongly doubt anyone will listen to me on the list Oct 17 11:42:26 Jaffa: Right now, I am simply assuming that Maemo4 Extras has been renamed to Extras-Testing in Maemo5 Oct 17 11:42:27 RST38h: And I *know* it isn't productive doing it here. So, you can only get listened to more ;-) Oct 17 11:42:33 RST38h: Correct. Oct 17 11:42:36 crashanddie_, of course its possible to replace HAM, its just hard to get it right Oct 17 11:42:54 potential for misunderstanding: people who haven't installed and tested that package may start clicking thumbs up thinking it means "yes I want to have that package available" Oct 17 11:43:11 Jaffa: Well, by doing it here on one-to-one basis, I can bring you people to reality one by one Oct 17 11:43:12 mgedmin: That's true and already has happened with some packages. Oct 17 11:43:15 lcuk, with all of our brains, size of the universe, free coffee and cigarettes? Oct 17 11:43:19 Jaffa: You , Niels, etc Oct 17 11:43:34 Jaffa: If I post it to the list, the herd mentality will automatically kick in Oct 17 11:43:43 heh even my little widget manager isnt upto snuff Oct 17 11:43:47 RST38h: Not if you communicate clearly and don't use terms like "braindead" Oct 17 11:43:49 i did ponder it using the database version Oct 17 11:43:53 cos i had tagging working Oct 17 11:43:53 mgedmin: One guy voted up RST38h's emulators not even realizing it was for Maemo 5. Oct 17 11:44:00 RST38h: It's not me and Niels you need to convince. Oct 17 11:44:02 mgedmin: Solution: they should make it even harder to vote! Oct 17 11:44:15 i would prefer to see app manager tied directly to downloads Oct 17 11:44:21 maemo.org/downloads rather Oct 17 11:44:25 It's not even remotely hard now. Oct 17 11:44:25 ? Oct 17 11:44:26 lcuk: X-Fade said at the summit that that was being worked on Oct 17 11:44:30 yeah i know Oct 17 11:44:35 mgedmin: Verify that voting is done from an n900 and the package is installed Oct 17 11:44:39 zerojay: Split votes by architecture aren't great. Oct 17 11:44:57 Jaffa, an easier target initially to prove concept Oct 17 11:45:03 Jaffa: You don't even get that option if you're going through it the right way. Oct 17 11:45:03 may be the n900wallpapers site Oct 17 11:45:10 it offers tagged and rated downloads Oct 17 11:45:15 and we need a slick UI for it on device Oct 17 11:45:34 and wallpapers wont break your machine Oct 17 11:45:39 Jaffa: Well, it is enough for me if you or Niels or some other mailing list regular raise this issue at the mailing list Oct 17 11:45:46 get it right with that, and transfer the knowledge to a proper full appman Oct 17 11:45:50 zerojay: Right, then the documentation needs to come. If I'm voting on a package, I'll click on its name first (its on the left) Oct 17 11:45:59 Jaffa: Not looking for spotlight here, just would like to see this fixed Oct 17 11:46:09 Jaffa: ok. Oct 17 11:46:12 And not turned into another Apple App Store certification nightmare Oct 17 11:46:26 lol. Oct 17 11:46:40 RST38h: Yes. And you've got valid concerns. Why spend effort trying to convince individuals one at a time when you can convince everyone in one go? Oct 17 11:46:50 I don't think that could be possible right now even if we tried to fuck things up that bad. :) Oct 17 11:46:51 * Jaffa has far too much on his plate to pick up *other* people's concerns ;-) Oct 17 11:47:04 What would be a good todo app for fremantle? Oct 17 11:47:19 i like countdown applet Oct 17 11:47:23 there's one in the 'desktop' section Lynoure Oct 17 11:47:27 for a few little things Oct 17 11:47:30 Jaffa: Because if I try convincing everyone in one go, I will get a long thread of responses explaining to me why my concerns are invalid and then trailing off in some random direction. happened many times Oct 17 11:47:49 Doesn't Calendar already have todo? You get asked if you want to sync todo items when you use Mail for Exchange on the N900. Oct 17 11:47:50 lcuk: to time how much time the wife gets in bed before going back to hacking>? Oct 17 11:47:54 Jaffa: I think this should be your concern as well, as you also have stuff in Extras Oct 17 11:48:19 pupnik_: Hell yes. Mine's been staying up later and later so I've had less and less time. :/ Oct 17 11:48:29 zerojay: no categories in that one, or could not see them... Oct 17 11:48:31 RST38h: I am concerned. I'm not concerned with the principle; as far as I'm concerned it's just the UI/ease-of-use/documentation which needs to improve. Oct 17 11:48:57 Jaffa: That would be the first step. The next is probably going to be lowering vote threshold from 10 to 3-5 Oct 17 11:49:07 zerojay, yeah the calendar has todo - i have todo sketches in it :P Oct 17 11:49:09 pupnik_: which one in desktop? Cannot really see anything applicable Oct 17 11:49:15 somehow Oct 17 11:49:18 Jaffa: At least for now, to let a flow of fresh apps into Extras Oct 17 11:49:31 Jaffa: Of course you CAN raise it later as needed, depending on voting activity Oct 17 11:50:10 There's nothing in browser for making sure popup windows aren't opened, is there? Oct 17 11:50:43 Oh... yes, there is. Oct 17 11:50:47 zerojay: In diablo there was a preference for it Oct 17 11:51:00 Yeah, just stumbled across it. Oct 17 11:53:47 hey again, i am stuck at compiling the maemo kernel, does anyone know how to solve this?: http://pastebin.com/m30537037 what dos : WARNING: "__bad_udelay" [sound/pci/ali5451/snd-ali5451.ko] undefined!mean? Oct 17 11:53:54 does* Oct 17 11:56:40 savagefb? Oct 17 11:56:44 for the maemo kernel? Oct 17 11:56:50 what sort of hardware do you intend to run it on? Oct 17 11:57:37 http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_security Oct 17 11:57:53 Lynoure: i can't recall the name sorry - was something installed as a quick test before i killed my system Oct 17 11:59:55 lbt: do you implie with your ?? on customisation that I wasn't very clear? :) Oct 17 12:00:10 Corsac: yes Oct 17 12:00:20 I feared that :) Oct 17 12:00:27 I think I know what you mean Oct 17 12:00:38 but I'm not sure how it fits in Oct 17 12:00:46 all other questions apply Oct 17 12:01:01 eg custom kernel, initrd, rootfs Oct 17 12:01:15 basically, companies may want to use n900 for its people, *because* it can be used in a secure way Oct 17 12:01:24 agreed Oct 17 12:01:31 meaning, secure vpn, storage, communications etc. Oct 17 12:01:40 however.... what's the question? Oct 17 12:01:52 I think they'll fit in above Oct 17 12:01:56 will it be possible to access hardware security functions in open mode :) Oct 17 12:02:02 that may be a User FAQ though Oct 17 12:02:15 (open because they might require custom kernels) Oct 17 12:02:23 right so that specific Q is relevant to custom build Oct 17 12:02:26 nokia's DRM solution is the best solution i'vfor supporting both FOSS and closed SW Oct 17 12:02:32 but also relevant to lots of other areas too Oct 17 12:02:37 yeah Oct 17 12:02:37 wow - i am chatting while upgrading glibc and INIT Oct 17 12:02:39 Corsac: yes Oct 17 12:02:54 forgot how awesome linux was Oct 17 12:02:58 Corsac: the only thing the loader does when it detects an unsigned kernel is disable the DRM crypto keys stored in the hw Oct 17 12:02:58 so Custom Build may be a big user FAQ Oct 17 12:03:01 mgedmin: that's a nce “yes” :) Oct 17 12:03:02 famous last words Oct 17 12:03:09 Stskeeps: :) Oct 17 12:03:12 :) Oct 17 12:03:16 mgedmin: ok Oct 17 12:03:16 according to the presentation and questions asked during the summit Oct 17 12:03:17 mgedmin: as i can read it, disable DRM crypto keys for that signed kernel Oct 17 12:03:25 I still want an answer to the point I raised in the roo Oct 17 12:03:27 m Oct 17 12:03:31 so a normal kernel could have crypto keys too Oct 17 12:03:37 can they reach out and "1984" it Oct 17 12:03:42 whoop crash! Oct 17 12:04:10 seems related to disk access Oct 17 12:04:10 Stskeeps: I think there may be some hardware stuff too Oct 17 12:04:33 mgedmin: in the slides it's said that they “restrict security functionality” so I wasn't sure :) Oct 17 12:04:35 pupnik: You do not yet know what Nokia's DRM solution is Oct 17 12:04:44 true i guess Oct 17 12:04:46 pupnik: So I would reserve any praise for now. Oct 17 12:04:52 Let's just wait and see Oct 17 12:05:16 basically if business can run their own security architecture with a trusted device it can really kick ass Oct 17 12:05:24 so will mer be on the light side or the dark side? Oct 17 12:05:25 trusted by them, I mean Oct 17 12:05:31 there's no dark side Oct 17 12:05:37 if I can see the signed kernel then I can extract embedded keys Oct 17 12:05:41 Mer will be on the technicolor side Oct 17 12:05:50 you can extract the signature Oct 17 12:05:51 i.e. bright and groovy =) Oct 17 12:05:56 :)) Oct 17 12:06:02 Corsac: The question will be: "will a signed kernel and a signed image be able to have the same security features as 'closed' mode?" Oct 17 12:06:15 ...where the signing is *not* done by Nokia Oct 17 12:06:17 unsigned Oct 17 12:06:19 ah Oct 17 12:06:40 will i be able to share an unsigned .deb with friends who wont want to reboot to see an app Oct 17 12:06:44 what's the point of signing a kernel from anyone else? Oct 17 12:06:56 lbt: so that I can lock my own phone up Oct 17 12:06:58 lbt: say Oct 17 12:07:02 i.e. I want to buy 5,000 Maemo 6 devices and ensure that my employees can only use the device in the way *I* want Oct 17 12:07:05 will the default signed image allow me to install debs such as rootsh from extras? Oct 17 12:07:06 I think that's what Corsac meant? Oct 17 12:07:07 SpeedEvil: you can't Oct 17 12:07:07 Or that Oct 17 12:07:16 the Loader is nokias Oct 17 12:07:22 and won't recognise your sig Oct 17 12:07:23 jaffa good example Oct 17 12:07:39 sme will want to use the platform Oct 17 12:07:42 lbt: that does not mean they could do it. For example - you might have a per-device signature Oct 17 12:07:44 mgedmin: The question there is: "will the security be at a below-root level, meaning that root access is still accessible." But the question is *why* you want root. Oct 17 12:07:48 but their apps wont necessarily be in the global repo Oct 17 12:07:58 Does a page a la "tips on how to improve your n900 as a regular linux user" already exist? Where stuff like "edit the init script to allow more than 4 parallel terminal sessions" would be on? Oct 17 12:08:08 I'm guessing there's loads of stuff like this Oct 17 12:08:08 Jaffa: I really hope it is below root Oct 17 12:08:26 otherwise it's broken Oct 17 12:08:31 lbt: From the stuff about binary signatures, I think it will be. Oct 17 12:08:33 Shapeshifter: bitten by the 4 pyt limit too? Oct 17 12:08:38 wiki it shapeshifter Oct 17 12:08:42 s/pyt/pty/ Oct 17 12:08:43 mgedmin meant: Shapeshifter: bitten by the 4 pty limit too? Oct 17 12:08:55 mgedmin: no, but it'll happen sooner or later. I don't have one yet :| Oct 17 12:09:17 mgedmin: and a page for people familiar with linux describing all these problems would be popular Oct 17 12:09:38 wiki Oct 17 12:10:42 Jaffa: as a question: "Would Nokia be prepared to have Bruce Schneier and co review the security architecture?" Oct 17 12:11:53 lbt: Given they've published the security architecture, *anyone* can review it. So is the question more "Would Nokia be willing to pay Bruce Schneier and co review the mid-level design of the security architecture and have his conclusions published?" Oct 17 12:12:18 I think he'd be interested enough Oct 17 12:12:22 he works for BT Oct 17 12:12:28 there's a tie Oct 17 12:12:28 Does he? Oct 17 12:12:31 yep Oct 17 12:12:35 Didn't know that. Oct 17 12:12:39 BT bought counterpane Oct 17 12:12:42 Ah Oct 17 12:12:48 I sent him an email when he joined Oct 17 12:13:58 "Hello, it's me!" Oct 17 12:14:00 :) Oct 17 12:14:13 * Jaffa is finding git easier with Hermes than he has before; btw. Oct 17 12:14:18 kinda - plus some internal stuff Oct 17 12:14:28 it grows on you Oct 17 12:14:30 gitk ? Oct 17 12:14:45 whoever is trying to upload "libsdl-13" version "9999-1" please don't do it :) at least use a sane version number ... otherwise epoch will need to be introduced for this package Oct 17 12:14:55 lbt: quick git q - will `git commit -a' include deleted and new files automatically? Or just ones which are modified and already tracked? Oct 17 12:15:12 lbt: not used it properly yet. Waiting for timsamoff to give me a better www ;-) Oct 17 12:15:40 -a not new ones , but does do all mods/dels Oct 17 12:15:47 OK, cool. Oct 17 12:15:54 Is there gonna be any polishing to the app manager? At the moment it has duplicates and package names instead of nice friendly titles. Will there be any quality control in terms of entries etc? Oct 17 12:15:55 That'd be just what I'd want then :) Oct 17 12:15:57 (otherwise it'd add .o files and crap) Oct 17 12:16:05 ((unless excluded)) Oct 17 12:16:05 RurouniJones: On Maemo 4 or Maemo 5? Oct 17 12:16:09 lbt: yeah Oct 17 12:16:10 5 Oct 17 12:16:26 what duplicates? Oct 17 12:16:29 what package names? Oct 17 12:16:40 gitk is a local gui to view branches/versions - do try it : gitk --all Oct 17 12:16:52 RurouniJones: Quality control is being done through Extras-testing and moving apps up to Extras. Package names will be shown unless the package uses XB-Maemo-Display-Name. Duplicates is concerning. Oct 17 12:16:52 are you refering to the app manager's user interface, or the packages you see in it? Oct 17 12:17:02 mgedmin: Content, I think Oct 17 12:17:16 Bearing in mind this is from the SDK, not an actual phone. They use different sources? Oct 17 12:17:32 RurouniJones: Might do. You might also have red pill mode enabled? Oct 17 12:17:47 lbt: gitk's just *soooo* mid-90s with its Tk interface ;-) Oct 17 12:17:52 That I have no idea, I have done nothing outside of the standard scratchbox SDK install Oct 17 12:17:57 it's written in tcl too Oct 17 12:18:04 but it's great :) Oct 17 12:18:05 lbt: yay! *cough* Oct 17 12:18:08 red pill still exists in maemo 5? Oct 17 12:18:24 the functionality is superb Oct 17 12:18:28 mgedmin: Yup, but I *think* m-vo implemented the "don't keep on permanently" feature Oct 17 12:19:28 TCL. Feh. Oct 17 12:20:23 hi all Oct 17 12:20:30 * mgedmin shares rst's opinion on tcl/tk Oct 17 12:20:33 http://mobiletablets.blogspot.com/2009/10/maemo-summit-news-n8x0-omap2-graphics.html Oct 17 12:20:52 PowerVR Oct 17 12:20:59 its back in game Oct 17 12:21:02 yeah, we were there Oct 17 12:21:05 lol Oct 17 12:21:19 and ai have a qeston Oct 17 12:21:45 I hope people don't have too many high hopes pinned on the PowerVR driver doing... much. Oct 17 12:21:56 hal dis wil help in det kaind off period for maemo 4 Oct 17 12:22:17 * zerojay adjusts his antenna Oct 17 12:22:19 What? Oct 17 12:22:29 zerojay, me too, we coped perfectly well without 3d graphics in computing for practically 50years Oct 17 12:22:29 sorri for bad english Oct 17 12:22:34 zerojay: according to sources it can drive full screen Oct 17 12:22:54 and we don't need it to do much, really. Oct 17 12:23:04 I just mean in terms of performance. I'm sure there are a lot of people expecting shit like Q3 to run on their N800s so they have their hopes up real high. Oct 17 12:23:05 i don't expect it to run 3d strippoker. Oct 17 12:23:19 vladovg, the comments on that blog are a bloody joke Oct 17 12:23:27 vladovg, it's -users all over again Oct 17 12:23:32 but det maid all of media app fave to bi remaicked Oct 17 12:23:55 lolwut? Oct 17 12:23:55 no, the media applications doesn't have to be remade Oct 17 12:24:17 for exemple Oct 17 12:24:21 mplayer Oct 17 12:24:26 vladovg, are you typing like that on purpose? Oct 17 12:24:33 to preform bether Oct 17 12:24:41 and use the PowerVR Oct 17 12:24:54 no Oct 17 12:24:57 sorri Oct 17 12:25:04 vladovg: we are not sure we get access to IVA Oct 17 12:25:05 vladovg, opengl doesn't help with 2d graphics tbh Oct 17 12:25:11 bad english Oct 17 12:25:17 i like that we have a community council of non-idiots Oct 17 12:25:25 np Oct 17 12:25:30 crashanddie_: Yes it does. Oct 17 12:25:32 the only thing we could hope for is having hardware acceleration for the decoding, does PowerVR support that? Oct 17 12:25:43 so it wil no help for video preformance Oct 17 12:25:44 derf, barely Oct 17 12:25:45 pupnik: Matter of opinion, I suppose. Oct 17 12:26:01 Depends on the chip of course... I have no real idea what PowerVR is capable of. Oct 17 12:26:05 "I can haz N64 emulat0rz?" Oct 17 12:26:05 of course Oct 17 12:26:09 derf, drawing a line is a line, whether you use opengl for it or some other lib, it only matters if you have to do it a lot Oct 17 12:26:10 pupnik: But I agree for the most part. Oct 17 12:26:10 for exemple Oct 17 12:26:15 nokia E90 Oct 17 12:26:20 same chipset Oct 17 12:26:27 btw someone just sent me a n64 emulator armel build Oct 17 12:26:28 I like that we have a community council chair who isn't an idiot ;-) Oct 17 12:26:35 crashanddie_, deligating that line drawing to other hardware is where the power comes from Oct 17 12:26:41 and olmost exackt same sckrin res Oct 17 12:26:44 Jaffa: ineed Oct 17 12:26:45 Jaffa: Who is the chair? Oct 17 12:26:47 +d Oct 17 12:26:50 remember, the amiga had 7mhz, but managed its workload by collaboration Oct 17 12:26:52 zerojay: VDVsx Oct 17 12:26:55 zerojay: VDVsx Oct 17 12:27:00 lcuk, excepted that the n800 doesn't have problems displaying Oct 17 12:27:03 * zerojay hits the Thanks button on that news. Oct 17 12:27:06 cours it does Oct 17 12:27:07 * Jaffa hopes gcobb's his trusted deputy Oct 17 12:27:10 lcuk, it has problems generating/decoding the data quickly enough Oct 17 12:27:15 so in case someone really annoys you about n64, ask me for the deb ;) Oct 17 12:27:21 cpu spends more time doing fills and blits than anything Oct 17 12:27:24 zerojay, summit news ;) Oct 17 12:27:25 Stskeeps: The man so nice they named him twice? :) Oct 17 12:27:34 lcuk, after that, you of all people have proven it's possible to have decent speed Oct 17 12:27:47 VDVsx: Yeah, missed that bit of it. Oct 17 12:27:57 only cos i optimized the shit out of it - i would love to handover fills and blits to some other hardware Oct 17 12:28:18 something just sitting idle that can take the load - hell yeah Oct 17 12:28:33 then the cpu can do real work Oct 17 12:28:44 like fluid dynamics of more particles Oct 17 12:28:47 * Jaffa needs to find an algorithm (implementable in Python) to do homoglyphs in utf8, given VDVsx's problems with accents in Hermes Oct 17 12:28:48 or AI for games Oct 17 12:29:10 yes Oct 17 12:29:19 What, Python isn't Turing-complete? Oct 17 12:29:22 but isent a too late fo thed driver Oct 17 12:29:30 zerojay, I only forgive you because I'm using your nice wallpapers ;) Oct 17 12:29:31 derf: :-p Oct 17 12:29:31 vladovg: nop Oct 17 12:29:37 vladovg: N800, N810 is cheap Oct 17 12:29:42 and Mer development needs it Oct 17 12:29:42 hope sow Oct 17 12:29:51 yes Oct 17 12:29:51 derf: Preferably implementable in Python before the heat-death of the universe and not involving rendering characters to a pixbuf and doing OCR ;-p Oct 17 12:29:55 ay now Oct 17 12:30:14 lol jaffa Oct 17 12:30:31 wait and see Oct 17 12:30:39 wath wil hapend Oct 17 12:30:53 VDVsx: Oh yeah? Which ones do you like the best? Any more you'd like to see? Oct 17 12:31:17 derf: I may have overestimated the complication: Oct 17 12:31:19 http://snippets.dzone.com/posts/show/5499 Oct 17 12:32:49 zerojay, I'm using DKC atm, very greeny but I love the game ;) Oct 17 12:33:26 That one was a real bitch to make. Oct 17 12:33:47 Hard to make it loop properly. Had to redo a good portion of it. Oct 17 12:34:29 * zerojay clicks the Promote Package button on AdBlock Plus. Oct 17 12:34:51 crap! libsoup on maemo5 is built without TLS support? crap. Oct 17 12:35:02 and another thing Oct 17 12:35:38 did yu think with dis driver maemo5 have ani chance on N8XX Oct 17 12:35:44 VDVsx: Feel free to send me ideas for more. Most of them are really easy to make. I can bang them out in 10 minutes, pretty much. Oct 17 12:35:46 some lithe version Oct 17 12:35:59 is it me or is forum nokia crap? Oct 17 12:36:11 Not just you. Oct 17 12:36:26 can someone cut'n'paste it all to the wiki please Oct 17 12:36:27 I've been stuck using it for the last 4 years. Oct 17 12:36:49 vladovg: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktop.png Oct 17 12:37:01 mer Oct 17 12:37:02 ? Oct 17 12:37:10 Stskeeps: very nice Oct 17 12:37:10 yes Oct 17 12:37:13 zerojay, actually, I'm curious about that, how do you make them ? i.e where do you grab the images :P Oct 17 12:37:20 Jaffa: now in need of something else than SW rendering Oct 17 12:37:27 Stskeeps: :) Oct 17 12:37:43 Hmm. Easy way to make a clock. Oct 17 12:37:48 its dear some wiki Oct 17 12:37:49 VDVsx: There's a few sites that specialize in doing maps for classic games. I basically download the maps and edit those. Oct 17 12:37:49 1440 frame animated GIF Oct 17 12:37:59 to read all about mer Oct 17 12:38:10 VDVsx: Search for vgmaps, I think... or "nes atlas", "snes atlas". Oct 17 12:38:19 vladovg: wiki.maemo.org/Mer Oct 17 12:38:20 Jaffa: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/trans ? Oct 17 12:38:32 thancs Oct 17 12:38:39 nice job Oct 17 12:38:42 VDVsx: What I do is I look at the map and try to find an area that looks like it'll be easily loopable. The ends on each side match, etc... Oct 17 12:39:18 Jaffa: or hack something up with the stdlib's unicodedata module Oct 17 12:39:42 VDVsx: I throw it into Gimp and pull out a 1600x240 size image (or close to it). I then go to work trying to make it loopable. Since everything is tiled, I impose a 16x16 grid on the image, careful it matches up with the tiles themselves and then copy and paste tiles around. Oct 17 12:40:05 VDVsx: Sometimes zoom up and do some fixing, especially in the case of that DKC one. Oct 17 12:40:29 mgedmin: It seems there's already a unicode module for python which'll make it a one liner. trans might be even better, tho' Oct 17 12:40:38 Then I double up to 3200x480 (so that the pixels are more visible) split into 4 800x480 images and test it out. Oct 17 12:40:54 ha Oct 17 12:40:57 I didn't double up on the DKC one... and wow, it looks really good. Oct 17 12:41:03 ani Ubuntu app Oct 17 12:41:04 :) Oct 17 12:41:07 that oneliner is cool! Oct 17 12:41:18 zerojay, interesting, I thought you have all this games, lolol Oct 17 12:41:25 lunch time, bbl Oct 17 12:41:26 did you guys notice very blurry tv out on video playback? Oct 17 12:41:35 VDVsx: I do, but why do the work when someone else has already? ;) Oct 17 12:41:42 or am i just not remembering how bad PaL is.. Oct 17 12:41:43 pupnik: only while drunk Oct 17 12:41:59 pupnik: I see very large pixels in my tv-out, and the colors are a bit weird Oct 17 12:42:04 zerojay, true Oct 17 12:42:16 is tv out 320x240 or smth? Oct 17 12:42:51 looks like half-field progressive to me Oct 17 12:42:59 just had a chat with SR on new OBS... 1:39pm SR : build bug fixed 1:41pm lbt : built+tested Oct 17 12:43:07 Stskeeps Oct 17 12:43:14 * lbt likes SSD based build systems.... Oct 17 12:43:23 install it now Oct 17 12:43:25 :) Oct 17 12:43:35 thancs Oct 17 12:43:54 PAL is something like 720x480 interlaced, isn't it? Oct 17 12:44:08 720x576 Oct 17 12:44:10 576 Oct 17 12:44:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vector_Video_Standards2.svg Oct 17 12:44:29 Also generally 50fps as well. Oct 17 12:44:34 Though there is PAL60. Oct 17 12:48:02 lol Oct 17 12:51:13 vladovg: ! Oct 17 12:51:27 ? Oct 17 12:51:39 mmgedmin: Interlacing has nothing to do with actual video signal strandard Oct 17 12:51:43 vladovg: nice picture! Oct 17 12:52:03 ? Oct 17 12:52:26 wath picture Oct 17 12:52:27 :) Oct 17 12:52:34 Whoa.. oh hey... maybe putting my foot up against my computer's CPU isn't a good idea. Oct 17 12:52:49 mgedmin: So, PAL is really 288 lines and NTSC is 24 Oct 17 12:52:51 240 Oct 17 12:53:02 depends Oct 17 12:53:10 Of which you physically see about 224 on NTSC and 240 on PAL I would say Oct 17 12:53:17 288 lines @ 50 hz or 576 lines @ 25 hz Oct 17 12:53:29 mgedmin: Not really :) Oct 17 12:53:38 picture on wiki Oct 17 12:53:39 ? Oct 17 12:53:42 mgedminL You still see the same 288 lines they just flicker :) Oct 17 12:53:46 vladovg: yes Oct 17 12:53:49 haha Oct 17 12:54:03 RST38h: That's not true. Oct 17 12:54:07 mgedmin: And do keep in mind that you see fewer than 288 on most TVs Oct 17 12:54:19 thinc yu fain my web site Oct 17 12:54:23 :) Oct 17 12:54:34 ah, gimme a moment =) Oct 17 12:55:39 derf: It is really true. If you do not believe it, try running Amiga or MSX or some other old system in interlced mode Oct 17 12:55:57 derf: You will quickly see that NTSC "480 lines" is a myth Oct 17 12:56:16 All in your eye, as long as adjacent lines are similar enough Oct 17 12:57:43 "all in your eye" is fine when we're talking about pictures, though ;-) Oct 17 12:57:52 Particularly photographic/TV pictures Oct 17 12:58:26 any one intersting in fotografi Oct 17 12:58:48 from yu gais Oct 17 13:01:01 anyone using dropbox? Oct 17 13:01:36 no, why? Oct 17 13:01:48 well wrong chan for a starter Oct 17 13:02:03 :) Oct 17 13:02:08 lol Oct 17 13:02:11 ifreq, use git Oct 17 13:02:50 Jaffa: breaks down the moment ou switch to computer screens :) Oct 17 13:03:02 slonopotamus: git is avail for every major OS and easy to setup? Oct 17 13:09:40 is USB networking in Windows already possible with the N900? Oct 17 13:13:21 cvandonderen: yes, it is with n8x0 too Oct 17 13:13:57 Stskeeps, it looks kinda complex to setup Oct 17 13:14:03 Stskeeps: in which mode do I have to connect the USB then? PC Suite mode? and still use that 770 network driver as on http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking? Oct 17 13:14:04 * Corsac slaps Khertan around a bit with a large trout Oct 17 13:14:33 (I'm on Win7 x64) Oct 17 13:14:49 cvandonderen: no idea on win7.. Oct 17 13:14:58 but the RNDIS issue was fixed Oct 17 13:15:06 but i think pc suite driver has usb networking in it Oct 17 13:15:25 so then I need to install the Nokia PC Suite? Oct 17 13:15:31 possibly Oct 17 13:16:28 blegh Oct 17 13:16:45 hate that behemoth :-P Oct 17 13:18:24 310MB installation :'( Oct 17 13:19:00 screw it Oct 17 13:19:22 out of the whole pcsuite you only need a driver or two Oct 17 13:19:32 yeah, but you can't select anything Oct 17 13:19:35 it is all or nothing Oct 17 13:19:43 hope that uninstalling will keep the driver... Oct 17 13:19:53 cvandonderen, here my script for usb-network: Oct 17 13:19:56 #!/bin/sh Oct 17 13:19:56 MYIP=192.168.10.15 Oct 17 13:19:56 IS_USBNET=`/usr/bin/sudo /sbin/lsmod | grep g_nokia` Oct 17 13:19:56 if [ IS_USBNET ]; then Oct 17 13:19:56 /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/modprobe -r g_file_storage Oct 17 13:19:56 íî Oct 17 13:19:56 /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/modprobe g_nokia Oct 17 13:19:58 /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/ifconfig usb0 up $MYIP Oct 17 13:20:00 else Oct 17 13:20:02 /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/ifconfig usb0 up $MYIP Oct 17 13:20:06 fi Oct 17 13:20:12 kontio: Windows ;-) Oct 17 13:20:13 or just wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking .. Oct 17 13:20:21 cvandonderen, on N900 side :-) Oct 17 13:20:23 cvandonderen: that's for the N900 side Oct 17 13:20:29 kontio: contribute it to wiki Oct 17 13:20:47 but then Windows still doesn't have the USB network driver, does it? Oct 17 13:21:43 cvandonderen, sorry I just use linux :-) don't know what windows needs... Oct 17 13:23:36 well, let me try if the driver now works :-) Oct 17 13:25:59 does somebody have a simple example for a fremantle desktop widget, which is transparent (semi-transparent)? I hacked something together, but the background is black and my nice wallpaper isn't visible :-) Oct 17 13:26:11 do I need cairo or is this doable with GTK? Oct 17 13:26:24 kontio: you make the window RGBA some claimed Oct 17 13:26:28 and then it works Oct 17 13:30:53 . Oct 17 13:31:12 kontio: does that script work in Windows for you? Oct 17 13:31:30 it does not give any ouput on the N900 and Windows does not detect a new device... Oct 17 13:34:09 and now in the root shell on the device it says: user is not in the sudoers file (I'm root) Oct 17 13:34:21 * cvandonderen is by far not nerdy enough for this Oct 17 13:35:06 cvandonderen, ups sorry... I added the "user" into the sudoers file... remove all the /usr/bin/sudo and start the script as root... Oct 17 13:35:20 aaah Oct 17 13:35:22 assuming you have rootsh installed... Oct 17 13:35:25 yup Oct 17 13:35:27 got that Oct 17 13:36:22 and first I plug in the usb, then if it asks what I want, I don't choose anything, I click outside of the popup... then I run the script... Oct 17 13:39:10 kontio: nothing happens on my Windows machine when I run the script... Oct 17 13:41:01 cvandonderen, sorry in that case I can't help you, I don't have any windows near to test with... Oct 17 13:41:11 okay Oct 17 13:41:28 and my windows knowledge is really bad :-) Oct 17 13:43:45 back to my transparency problem... in the example 1.2 Source under: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Application_Development/Writing_Desktop_Widgets where and how would I set "RGBA to the window" as Stskeeps suggested before? and which is my window? Oct 17 13:43:51 let's hope Nokia comes with one soon then ;-) Oct 17 13:44:59 kontio: zareem or something in here dealt with same issue Oct 17 13:45:12 keep an eye out for him and he can probably answer Oct 17 13:45:36 Stskeeps, OK thx :-) Oct 17 13:45:40 mgedmin, maybe the "this channel is logged" could say "this channel is logged and visible in google ;" Oct 17 13:45:40 ;) Oct 17 13:45:56 isn't that an obvious corollary? Oct 17 13:46:48 I prefer 'This channel is logged. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law'. Oct 17 13:46:57 lcuk: By the way, was that cat willing to do the stuff you made pictures of? =0 Oct 17 13:47:32 "court of lol" Oct 17 13:49:25 kontio: http://zaheer.merali.org/articles/2009/10/12/maemo-widget-experience-circular-clock-with-transparent-background/ maybe Oct 17 13:51:17 mgedmin: what language is he using? Oct 17 13:51:36 mgedmin, thx I'll check that out :-) Oct 17 13:53:14 hey all.. Oct 17 13:55:03 I am trying to ssh into my N900 but can't seem to get in from my laptop (ubuntu).. the connection simply hangs after entering the root password.... Oct 17 13:55:44 what am I missing? Oct 17 13:56:22 ssh out of the N900 into my laptop is working fine.. Oct 17 13:56:48 archebyte: disable power saving Oct 17 13:57:12 hmm.. let me give that a shot.. tks.. Oct 17 14:00:27 Er, why does the maemo.org homepage show Downloads for OS2006... Oct 17 14:01:04 because you're back to 2006 Oct 17 14:02:23 must of time travelled over night Oct 17 14:03:24 @Stskeeps that did it thanks! Oct 17 14:04:15 now on to USB networking.. Oct 17 14:07:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6aVu_mnz34 Oct 17 14:07:04 nice Oct 17 14:12:11 anyone know how to access the light sensor? Oct 17 14:13:22 axe. Oct 17 14:13:52 Is there source for the q3 package - IIRC that used it Oct 17 14:14:37 really? how? Oct 17 14:15:14 I dunno. Oct 17 14:15:22 I heard comments earlier it was used for the fire button Oct 17 14:15:45 oh right, cool, thanks Oct 17 14:16:24 (10:32:29 PM) RST38h: javis: The quake3 Nokia guys made for n900 uses proximity sensor as the fire button. You close it with your finger and fire away Oct 17 14:16:26 lastnight Oct 17 14:17:41 ah proximity Oct 17 14:18:02 I think there is a n easier way to find the code sample for proximity sensor Oct 17 14:18:40 Or strace something that uses it Oct 17 14:19:33 well the kernel diff will also say how Oct 17 14:20:45 does fennec on the n900 use the fraud/phishing detection service? Oct 17 14:23:16 I can't seem to make a file executable on the N900. I copied the file (usbnet) onto the N900.. it copied with user:root owner and 755 permission.. using 'chmod a+x usbnet' does not change the permission. whats going on here? Oct 17 14:23:36 archebyte: might be on the vfat partition? Oct 17 14:23:47 archebyte: how did you setup usbnet out of interest? Oct 17 14:25:27 @lardman I am just trying it out.. using the /etc/init.d/usbnet from my N800 Oct 17 14:25:45 ah ok Oct 17 14:26:15 archebyte, you probably have the file in the wrong location Oct 17 14:26:30 part of ~ is vfat Oct 17 14:26:39 iirc Oct 17 14:27:00 and if it is mounted with noexec... Oct 17 14:27:06 @lardman.. yup.. I copied it onto the /home/user/tmp.. Oct 17 14:27:51 I will move it to the system dir and try again. Thanks! Oct 17 14:27:57 /home is ext3 Oct 17 14:28:06 /home/user/MyDocs is vfat Oct 17 14:28:52 crashanddie_: it's not noexec'd afaicr Oct 17 14:29:07 at least I'm sure I was executing code from /home/user/MyDocs Oct 17 14:29:22 may have changed now though I guess Oct 17 14:31:48 it ain't Oct 17 14:31:55 @crashanddie_: tks Oct 17 14:32:04 well, /home/user/MyDocs is noexec Oct 17 14:32:20 /home should be fine Oct 17 14:32:59 @lardman: /etc/fstab shows MyDocs with vfat noauto, nodev,noexec Oct 17 14:33:20 ah ok, might be my memory or something then ;) Oct 17 14:33:35 Jaffa: you care about sync (contacts etc) Oct 17 14:38:30 Jaffa, ping Oct 17 14:39:48 ah nevermind :) Oct 17 14:40:00 http://wiki.maemo.org/Sync Oct 17 14:43:01 argh, that bloody "Unable to connect to one or more accounts" is driving me mad! Oct 17 14:43:06 X-Fade, ping Oct 17 14:43:57 does N900 standard browser have facilities to access location data? (somehow I feel pessimistic...) Oct 17 14:44:56 I have an 810 and I've been trying to figure out rearranging the applications menu for quite sometime. Does anyone have any insight on this that my exhaustive googling hasn't brought up? It is seemingly impossible to take something from the Extras menu and put it in the Utilities menu after the application has been installed once. Oct 17 14:45:40 kirma: how do you mean? To use for e.g. Google lookups? Oct 17 14:45:46 control panel Oct 17 14:45:51 panels Oct 17 14:46:10 aplications Oct 17 14:46:19 lardman: primarily to get GPS coordinates, but potentially also to access landmark database Oct 17 14:46:20 organise Oct 17 14:46:46 kirma: I guess a plugin could do the job Oct 17 14:46:47 an manig wath ever yu want Oct 17 14:46:47 and controlling if the lat/lon coordinates are formed from cellids or agps or whatever Oct 17 14:47:01 kirma: why would you want to do that in the browser though? Oct 17 14:47:20 access location information, you mean? Oct 17 14:47:55 Is it possible to install fennec in the sdk? Oct 17 14:47:55 or landmarks specifically? Oct 17 14:48:07 http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/geolocation/ something like that probably Oct 17 14:48:15 heh Oct 17 14:48:20 * sp3000 has 199 karma Oct 17 14:48:29 ahhahaha Oct 17 14:48:38 under other circumstances, that could have been annoying ;) Oct 17 14:48:43 One more bug report...a few more comments... Oct 17 14:49:14 sijk: indeed. Oct 17 14:50:09 I'm wondering if maemo 5 has landmark database like S60 at all Oct 17 14:51:48 if both coordinates and landmark database could be accessed from web sites/wrt after user approval, one could write many applications like "next bus home/whatever" as web 2.0 style stuff and in addition avoid using too much battery or creating redundant landmark databases for user to maintain... Oct 17 14:52:13 Vladoo: holy, hell. How did I miss that? thank you so much :| Oct 17 14:52:39 :) Oct 17 14:52:43 glad to help Oct 17 14:53:11 I feel so idiotic. It's been like two months. Heh. Oct 17 14:53:16 kirma: sounds interesting Oct 17 14:53:36 just ask some one Oct 17 14:53:51 1 minute Oct 17 14:54:38 I'm still waiting location awareness to catch on in truly interesting ways. for instance, I hacked a local web server providing location data for ajax apps on S60/Python and it was nice... and could theoretically do what I want in this case, but it'd be a bit fragile implementation Oct 17 14:55:22 I wonder if the n900 will support USB host mode. I just got a battery powered usb hub that works well with my n810 for hooking up my CF card reader. Oct 17 14:55:32 sevard: sources say no Oct 17 14:55:42 moo Oct 17 14:55:43 there was a USB certification issue Oct 17 14:55:46 even without the software hack available for the n810? Oct 17 14:55:57 but once one gets reasonably accurate data from cellids and sees the landmark database, "intelligent guesses" by the application become much easier and less power hungry -> real potential for widget that would show *always* how to get home fastest using local buses, for instance. Oct 17 14:56:01 because wasn't there the same issue with the n810? Oct 17 14:56:17 no, the n810 supported usb otg. Oct 17 14:56:30 sevard Oct 17 14:56:36 CF Oct 17 14:56:38 Sources are - as far as I read them - ambiguous. Oct 17 14:56:53 yeah, but if it's in OTG mode it doesn't "host" Oct 17 14:56:54 lbt: VDVsx: pong Oct 17 14:56:57 did yu du some fotografick worck Oct 17 14:57:06 Vladoo: what? Oct 17 14:57:07 I haven't seen one statement - looked at the relevant maemo threads - that seems to be from someone with a clue. Oct 17 14:57:24 I'd say Vlad has a clue... Oct 17 14:57:29 ay too nead a CF soliushon Oct 17 14:57:58 Jaffa, nevermind, I had a question about ovi maps :) Oct 17 14:58:11 javispedro: I don't recall any vlad - can you link? Oct 17 14:58:14 to read 30D images Oct 17 14:58:36 SpeedEvil: er.. sorry, Igor. Oct 17 14:58:43 Well, with my n810 I use the nokia pproprietary cable and a usb female to female jack to hook up to a CyberPower battery powered (rechargeable) usb hub. That hub is in turned plugged into my targus 32 in one card reader which my cf card is plugged into. Oct 17 14:59:04 Mameo complains about the devices not being supported, but then a second later the CF filesystem is populated. Oct 17 14:59:14 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html (the original post) Oct 17 14:59:17 Jaffa: syncML... Oct 17 14:59:23 in the Qt from the repo's I cannot yet use Q_WS_HILDON? Oct 17 14:59:29 The only problem I have is reading huge JPEGs off the card from my camera with the default image viewing application. That's solved with using "Quiver" Oct 17 14:59:31 hm Oct 17 14:59:44 The Cyberpower hub is really awesome Oct 17 14:59:47 made my self usb host cable Oct 17 14:59:48 I got it from ebay for 8bucks Oct 17 14:59:54 Jaffa: something you care about? Oct 17 15:00:03 but widowt the ehternal power Oct 17 15:00:19 You can make a host cable, but you need power. The n810's usb port doesn't supply power. Oct 17 15:00:30 and it dosen want to start my reader Oct 17 15:00:38 ay now Oct 17 15:00:57 wit wat yu tacke images Oct 17 15:01:03 canon nikon Oct 17 15:01:25 Right. you need a powered hub... if you're into a hackerish solution I'm sure you could hack in like 500mA/2.6 watts into the line Oct 17 15:02:00 I take pictures with a canon rebel xt dslr. Are you dutch? Oct 17 15:02:03 javispedro: 'comes without usb host mode' is rather ambiguous. It can mean several things. We don't provide the driver. There is no 5V power supply. The pull up/down resistors are missing. There is a SoC bug or other issue meaning you can't set the D+/D- pins to host mode. Oct 17 15:02:09 no Oct 17 15:02:17 Bulgarian Oct 17 15:02:18 javispedro: Some of these may be fixable externally. Oct 17 15:02:25 SpeedEvil: read hw bugs part? Oct 17 15:02:36 ay using canon too Oct 17 15:02:46 and s10sh Oct 17 15:02:54 in host mode Oct 17 15:03:02 did yu traiet dis Oct 17 15:03:07 SpeedEvil: it's true. All this speculative fanboying is going to have to wait for the actual release. Oct 17 15:03:09 its great Oct 17 15:03:24 I've understood most of what you said, but I'm failing to prase traiet. Oct 17 15:03:41 mainli as a remote control for the camera Oct 17 15:03:43 javispedro: yes - this may mean bugs affecting the power supply, or pull up/down resistors, or ... In some cases this can be fixed with external hardware. Without detailed specs, further clarification, I don't think it's possible to say one way or the other. Oct 17 15:03:43 parse* Oct 17 15:04:20 SpeedEvil: for a start, what if it's connected to the omap udc that does not support host. Oct 17 15:04:41 javispedro: yes - that's of course an option. Oct 17 15:04:52 (i really dunno if the omap udc has one such port; the pxa -- the only I've worked with -- had only one of three ports host capable) Oct 17 15:05:47 javispedro: I'm not saying it can or it can't. I'm saying I can read the posts I've seen as a software guy talking to a hardware guy, and getting answers that are slightly talking past each other. Oct 17 15:06:03 (igor talking to his internal source) Oct 17 15:07:06 what I don't understand why there's so many people interested in usb host but no one of the "300" has begun any kind of extensive analysis of the situation. Oct 17 15:07:12 :/ Oct 17 15:07:36 i'm sure the "is it connected to the udc port with host support" could be easily solved. Oct 17 15:07:45 without even opening the device. Oct 17 15:07:45 There are - to assume it's similar to openmoko - _very_ few people competant to do kernel hacking and run a voltmeter. Oct 17 15:08:07 javispedro: Because 290 of those 300 are bloggers! =) Oct 17 15:08:10 Or even read datasheets and read kernel code. Oct 17 15:08:38 RST38h: or not interested at all in host support now (my case...) Oct 17 15:08:58 I don't think the omap is NDA'd datasheet - but that sort of thing is even worse. Oct 17 15:09:42 I want to be able to plug in my hard drive, or an external keyb forex. Oct 17 15:10:00 is there an #ifdef FREMANTLE / DIABLO thing? Oct 17 15:10:03 the pxa was much much more opened, and few people tryiend enabling host support there. Oct 17 15:10:10 (palm t|x) Oct 17 15:10:25 lbt: if including hildon, hildon has some version macros... Oct 17 15:10:46 http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/hildon/hildon-Versioning-Macros.html Oct 17 15:10:49 *nod* ... Oct 17 15:10:53 I should probably try to download the datasheet, but am currently depressed about yet another unaffordable device. Oct 17 15:11:14 javispedro: I'll see what they do :) Oct 17 15:11:40 lbt: if not hildon, then I just read /etc/maemo_release in the Makefile and act (but that breaks Mer builds :( ) Oct 17 15:12:02 javispedro: I've been thinking about how Mer should behave Oct 17 15:12:09 I think it may pretend to be fremantle Oct 17 15:12:22 anyone have any idea what package provides the gles and egl files under x86 sdk? Oct 17 15:12:30 Firebird: libgles2-dev Oct 17 15:12:32 extras-devel. Oct 17 15:12:33 insofar as it attempts to suport the fremantle api Oct 17 15:12:48 lbt: true Oct 17 15:12:54 * RST38h conducts anthropologic research via t.m.o: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32914&page=5 Oct 17 15:12:57 (err... nice idea I mean) Oct 17 15:13:04 javispedro, that's armel only... according to apt-get and maemo.org/packages Oct 17 15:13:24 Firebird: either they removed it or I've been dreaming. Oct 17 15:13:33 btw, no gles1 in x86. Oct 17 15:13:58 ah, I see Oct 17 15:14:03 well : /usr/include/qt4/Qt/qconfig.h:# define Q_OS_FREMANTLE Oct 17 15:14:21 ah, already using QT :) Oct 17 15:14:26 Firebird: [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > fakeroot apt-get install libgles2-dev works Oct 17 15:14:33 javispedro, it was libgles2 that is armel only Oct 17 15:14:56 ah. Oct 17 15:15:07 there's no libgles2 package in x86 indeed. -dev one contains libraries. Oct 17 15:16:10 there's no x86 version of the -sgx-img one either Oct 17 15:16:30 yeah, libgles2-dev contains all you need for gles2 Oct 17 15:16:38 if you need gles1... use imagination sdk. Oct 17 15:17:19 humm, seems that I can't transfer photos to my laptop through BT, anyone with an n900 to confirm/deny ? :P Oct 17 15:17:29 anyways, armel version is queued for adding to extras-devel Oct 17 15:17:38 sdl-1.3? cool. Oct 17 15:17:44 VDVsx: there's a bug on file transfer Oct 17 15:17:56 * Stskeeps thinks there should be send file through skype/msn/etc too Oct 17 15:17:57 yea Oct 17 15:18:01 Firebird: if you're in mood, open garage project. 3 karma points plus I get to have a look at the patches you've done :) Oct 17 15:18:36 libsdl-13-9999 Oct 17 15:18:45 uh? Oct 17 15:18:49 Stskeeps, my laptop doesn't show up on the list, it only shows phones o_0 Oct 17 15:18:59 that 9999 is wrong Oct 17 15:19:09 aight i am done with operating systems on hard drives , i think Oct 17 15:19:22 javispedro, haven't really patched much, only fixed the EGL attributes so far Oct 17 15:19:22 there was already a gles x11 driver, so I used that Oct 17 15:19:33 pupnik: read to migrate into the cloud? =) Oct 17 15:19:33 pupnik: lol, moved your OS to the cloud then? :) Oct 17 15:19:40 heh. Oct 17 15:19:42 Oh...great minds think alike Oct 17 15:19:56 not sure bout that yet Oct 17 15:20:05 but i like usb + cdrom Oct 17 15:20:09 oh wow, lag :o Oct 17 15:20:25 Firebird: I'd say you name the package libsdl1.3 and libsdl1.3-dev Oct 17 15:20:27 RST38h, its an upstream git version Oct 17 15:20:43 version 0.0~git Oct 17 15:20:53 a trusted cd or dvd, plus a semi-trusted usb filesystem on micro-usb card (check out the steel "super talent" micro usb cards) Oct 17 15:21:02 but that would overwrite the stable sdl wouldn't it? Oct 17 15:21:13 Firebird: the stable sdl was appropiately named libsdl1.2 Oct 17 15:23:09 I mean, the package name is "libsdl1.2", version is "1.2.13-2" Oct 17 15:23:25 "1.2.8-23" actually. Oct 17 15:23:31 Stskeeps, humm, I don't find any bug related to that issue Oct 17 15:24:19 javispedro, alright, renamed Oct 17 15:24:47 * Firebird spies openarena-data in the fremantle build queue Oct 17 15:26:02 wotness Oct 17 15:26:13 how is stering Oct 17 15:26:24 sthis damn bwireless kbd is defective Oct 17 15:26:41 curse you chinese anonymity Oct 17 15:26:56 * javispedro glances at the libsdl1.2 maemo package description Oct 17 15:27:06 heh Oct 17 15:27:08 have zou tested this javispedro Oct 17 15:27:23 Description: Simple "Direct"Media Layer Oct 17 15:27:23 Altrough it claims to be "direct", it is not that Oct 17 15:27:23 direct as you can see after using it for a while... Oct 17 15:27:31 :) Oct 17 15:27:43 God I miss ITT Oct 17 15:27:53 pupnik: tested what? Oct 17 15:28:01 Which ITT? Oct 17 15:28:11 yea, I saw that and decided to not include the last 2 lines Oct 17 15:28:26 the non-corporate ITT Oct 17 15:28:29 javis: direct as compared to gstreamer maybe? Oct 17 15:29:03 it just doesnt seem as friendly anymore Oct 17 15:29:06 the current one is not very corporate either Oct 17 15:29:14 this new sdl build with gles Oct 17 15:29:23 ah come on, what does corporation have to do with this? Oct 17 15:29:49 I much prefer when it was just Reggie Oct 17 15:29:53 pupnik: nope, not yet. In fact I don't know remember any app using sdl-1.3 right now... Oct 17 15:29:54 want to test the tolerance of it, go crazy in offtopiic Oct 17 15:30:25 oh, I like qgil's contributions. Oct 17 15:30:28 javispedro, secret maryo world would be perfect on gles. Oct 17 15:30:36 well, the ones were he doesn't sound like a marketdroid ;) Oct 17 15:30:39 alright, its in the queue: libsdl1.3_0.0~git 2009-10-17T15:34:29Z Oct 17 15:30:42 defintely good to talk to nokia ppl directly Oct 17 15:30:46 good deal Firebird Oct 17 15:31:21 this way you can decide a better versioning scheme when it's released. Oct 17 15:31:28 I personally like it better when qgil would show up once a month, and was pretty quiet Oct 17 15:31:31 mornin' Oct 17 15:31:33 (e.g. 1.3.0-0maemo1) Oct 17 15:31:40 morning johnx Oct 17 15:31:56 johnx: i have a new-UI image if you want to test out new HIM Oct 17 15:32:03 (its dead slow but it works over usb net) Oct 17 15:32:20 penguin: What is wrong with qgil? Oct 17 15:32:23 Stskeeps, sounds good Oct 17 15:32:31 :o "openarena 0.8.1-maemo1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository" Oct 17 15:32:42 who's doing that one? Oct 17 15:32:52 moo johnx Oct 17 15:32:57 m00f RST38h :D Oct 17 15:33:11 lol :) Oct 17 15:33:18 * Stskeeps actually likes the maemo.org feel. feels more of an integrated community now. Oct 17 15:33:19 johnx: any idea where I can find a proximity sensor usage sample? Oct 17 15:33:51 RST38h, there's a proximity sensor? Oct 17 15:33:54 * lbt doesn't like the tmo colours Oct 17 15:33:57 * RST38h does not think of qgil as the top forum annoyance, not even in the first two dozen or so Oct 17 15:33:59 I was wondering how that worked... Oct 17 15:34:08 Nothing is wrong, just liked him better, when he was quieter Oct 17 15:34:17 A few excessively whining bloggers, on the other hand... =) Oct 17 15:34:18 Right now I'd prefer tmo's "balance" to go a bit back to developers "side". not much though. Oct 17 15:34:23 javispedro, can't put libgles2-dev in the dependencies or it will fail for armel since armel uses libgles2-sgx-image-dev Oct 17 15:34:33 johnx: Of course there is Oct 17 15:34:34 penguinbait: I know that feeling... though not about qgil :) Oct 17 15:34:34 penguinbait, yeah, it'd be a shame if Nokia got involved in the community... Oct 17 15:34:35 Firebird: libgles2-dev | libgles2-sgx-image-dev Oct 17 15:34:46 ah Oct 17 15:34:47 javispedro: You ain't seen nuffink yet! Oct 17 15:34:49 johnx: the little double-window at the left sife Oct 17 15:34:52 side Oct 17 15:35:01 javispedro: Wait till you get the 'why won't it download apps from itunes' posts Oct 17 15:35:10 aaah, I figured that was the camera and light sensor Oct 17 15:35:17 SpeedEvil: i'm already traning reading some "external" maemo fansite sites .... Oct 17 15:35:21 s/traning/training Oct 17 15:35:45 well proximity is apparently done by lighting an IR LED and sensing the reflected light Oct 17 15:35:59 * javispedro wonders when the rush of people noticing it's not a symbian phone and thus they can't plan Pang XXX will appear. Oct 17 15:36:31 Well, people are already asking where the apps are all over the forums Oct 17 15:36:32 * SpeedEvil hopes no confused users were really looking for a symbian device. Oct 17 15:36:39 because, answering yesterday's RST38h question: yes they have money and yes they have been preordering the device even when they have no idea what the device is. Oct 17 15:36:41 RST38h, think the RGB indicator light might be IR as well? Oct 17 15:36:45 or is it somewhere else? Oct 17 15:36:52 guess I could find out with a camera Oct 17 15:37:13 Stskeeps: do you have howto for usb-net on n900_ Oct 17 15:37:19 whoah Oct 17 15:37:25 pupnik: scroll up Oct 17 15:37:34 so is dual booting on the n900 working? Oct 17 15:37:42 penguinbait: of course it is Oct 17 15:38:01 < Stskeeps> johnx: i have a new-UI image if you want to test out new HIM Oct 17 15:38:06 we have to wait for final sw release before putting a patch in the bootmenu installer thoug Oct 17 15:38:08 johnx: i doubt they would put IR on an indicator light... the IR stuff is supposed to be on the top side where the other buttons are Oct 17 15:38:08 h Oct 17 15:38:12 ah ok Oct 17 15:38:22 cool stuff ty wtg >) Oct 17 15:38:44 penguinbait: but it works and i've tested it Oct 17 15:38:59 absolute, but how would the proximity detector use that light? Oct 17 15:39:12 ? Oct 17 15:39:36 So this is why Quim thinks Fanoush does not deserve a pre-release device? Is this working for everything or just MER? Oct 17 15:39:52 i'm not sure what type of component was used for the proximity sensor Oct 17 15:40:00 Fanoush does not deserve a device? O.o Oct 17 15:40:06 i don't have one in hand yet Oct 17 15:40:18 penguinbait: uhm, council got a choice of giving out 25 with the intent of getting apps in extras Oct 17 15:40:24 and then there was 300 on maemo summit Oct 17 15:40:28 and then there was karma > 200 Oct 17 15:40:33 i would donate a bit to fanoush fund Oct 17 15:40:34 giving out as in loan Oct 17 15:40:35 fanoush was droped by nokia Oct 17 15:40:42 council picked him Oct 17 15:41:08 community can donante to peopl it likes w/o nokia Oct 17 15:41:17 yawn, so now this device programmer crud spills over from tmo Oct 17 15:41:17 if it does not donate it does not care Oct 17 15:41:22 I merely asked Quim to use of of the devices collected back to send to Fanoush Oct 17 15:41:25 askinng for other peoples money is seasy Oct 17 15:41:30 he stated bootmenu was already working Oct 17 15:41:58 as he said he would on ITT, but fanoush somehow does not qualify Oct 17 15:42:16 It doesn't make sense to give a device to someone for hacking bootmenu when 99% of the average user for the N900 will never use it. The whole point of handing out the tablets in the first place is to solidify software that's going to be in Extras for sales release. Oct 17 15:42:26 So it's not that Fanoush doesn't deserve it. Oct 17 15:42:28 * Stskeeps is with zerojay on that one Oct 17 15:42:40 It's just that it doesn't make sense, that's all. Not at that point. Oct 17 15:42:54 dude can i please have sopme kind of fused rotfs Oct 17 15:42:55 WOW Oct 17 15:42:59 Not when you have a limited amount of devices to hand out. Oct 17 15:43:03 what world do I live in? Oct 17 15:43:16 can i loan my device to fanoush_? Oct 17 15:43:25 RST38h, not so sure about it using IR for this. Think it might be clever usage of the accelerometer? Oct 17 15:43:32 sorry but I also agree with zerojay Oct 17 15:43:36 pupnik, yes. I give you permission Oct 17 15:43:39 and fanoush got a discount Oct 17 15:43:53 oh if he haas dicount then all is wel Oct 17 15:44:03 99% of the people didnt use bootmenu? Oct 17 15:44:10 That's right. Oct 17 15:44:11 < Oct 17 15:44:12 Are you serious? Oct 17 15:44:13 indeed Oct 17 15:44:17 johnx: No. Oct 17 15:44:31 expandable rootfs for the glorius people of kazachstan! Oct 17 15:44:31 johnx: That thing is a proximity sensor. Consider it an axiom :) Oct 17 15:44:46 Is anyone aware of any dropbear ssh issues on maemo? Oct 17 15:44:46 If you think most of the people that bought tablets came to ITT, you're way wrong. But I'm not talking about the older tablets. I'm talking about the N900's users. Oct 17 15:44:46 RST38h, well I tried watching it with a digicam while the "phone" app was running... Oct 17 15:45:12 It's made much more for mainstream users than the older tablets. That means even LESS people are going to be running bootmenu on a percentage basis. Oct 17 15:45:16 ah, he got discount. cool enough. Oct 17 15:45:19 * Stskeeps didnt contribute bootmenu cos of a prerelease loan but because of summit loan. Oct 17 15:45:26 I am talking about 810 user, the ones that find it was useable after finding bootmenu Oct 17 15:45:32 hmm.. ir transmitter, bt, accelerometer Oct 17 15:45:33 how quickly we forget? Oct 17 15:45:42 n900 could be hacked to a expensive wiimote =) Oct 17 15:45:43 You are. We're talking about handing out N900s. Oct 17 15:45:50 I'm not using bootmenu :-) Oct 17 15:45:56 And Nokia's reasonings for handing them out. Oct 17 15:45:58 (on N800, N810) Oct 17 15:46:01 suihkulokki, it could be the wii and the wiimote :) Oct 17 15:46:09 javispedro, the | didn't work, should it be || ? Oct 17 15:46:39 * javispedro checks debian depends signal Oct 17 15:46:39 there are videos of people using a wiimote with drnoksnes Oct 17 15:46:45 crashanddie_: you may know... any issues with dropbear? Oct 17 15:46:48 Firebird: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.2.1), exim | mail-transport-agent Oct 17 15:46:55 it's | Oct 17 15:47:00 suihkulokki, I made a attempt on that at the summit :P Oct 17 15:47:10 javispedro, its still trying to pull libgles2-dev Oct 17 15:47:24 VDVsx, did you have a wii at the summit? Oct 17 15:47:32 if you have the alternative installed it shouldn't try to pull the first one. Oct 17 15:47:46 lbt, I don't use dropbear Oct 17 15:47:47 crap, typo >_> Oct 17 15:47:57 lbt, I use openssh Oct 17 15:47:59 johnx, nop, I use the n900 to control tuxracing in my laptop Oct 17 15:48:13 crashanddie_: fair enough - are you aware of any issues though? Oct 17 15:48:18 it's a fair bit smaller Oct 17 15:48:23 and /opt ... Oct 17 15:48:25 and Qt Oct 17 15:48:34 johnx: No luck? Oct 17 15:48:38 my brother's going to kill me for sucking up all this bandwidth to upload sdl Oct 17 15:48:42 johnx: Then it should use some other method Oct 17 15:48:46 lbt, can't say I'm aware of anything Oct 17 15:48:50 is it safe to move all /usr/share to MyDocs partituion or /home/user? Oct 17 15:48:58 RST38h, well, I don't see an IR LED lit up when it's in phone mode Oct 17 15:49:07 pupnik, no Oct 17 15:49:15 wait Oct 17 15:49:18 what was MyDocs again Oct 17 15:49:19 pupnik: and the end result will be slower. Oct 17 15:49:22 with symlilnk Oct 17 15:49:31 MyDocs is FAT32, thus "No". Oct 17 15:49:33 how about symlinking individual big blobby libs Oct 17 15:49:37 or rather share thinngs Oct 17 15:49:37 but maybe there's too much light in the room to see it. (ie, It might be blending in with the reflections off the device) Oct 17 15:49:56 is the stuff in /home mounted on bootup Oct 17 15:50:20 dunno. Oct 17 15:50:26 * VDVsx just realized that his advisor company is working directly with Apple, that explains somethings o_0 Oct 17 15:50:29 I'd wait for lazy packagers like me to optify their packages. Oct 17 15:50:46 filesystem ful now, so i guess iwill experiment Oct 17 15:50:46 drnoksnes is now optified at least though. Oct 17 15:51:15 what do you install to fill it up... Oct 17 15:51:22 just a few thigns Oct 17 15:51:25 must be porn, last time I checked nobody answered that question :P Oct 17 15:51:26 python was nicie and fat Oct 17 15:51:36 python... Oct 17 15:51:37 i can give list if i dont have to reflash Oct 17 15:51:47 is your tablet still bricked? Oct 17 15:51:52 yes Oct 17 15:51:54 :( Oct 17 15:52:12 wanted to give you oprofile data actually Oct 17 15:52:16 but i think is not ready yet Oct 17 15:52:51 AdBlock Plus is in extras-testing. Please try it out and vote on it, guys n' dolls. Oct 17 15:52:57 ah, vote. Oct 17 15:53:02 did the QA queue speed increase? :) Oct 17 15:53:25 Not that I've seen. lol Oct 17 15:53:30 ah well. Oct 17 15:53:38 If I get my dev at least I will vote RST38's apps :) Oct 17 15:55:11 when u get dev Oct 17 15:55:33 dunno. still don't know what the final price is. Oct 17 15:55:57 you have discount though, yes? Oct 17 15:56:15 yep : ) Oct 17 15:56:23 is it not 300 Oct 17 15:56:34 he says it "varies from country to country" Oct 17 15:56:40 like always Oct 17 15:56:41 k Oct 17 15:57:16 * Firebird will be awaiting a subsidized version Oct 17 16:00:12 can someone @ nokia link me to a fresh image to flash or maybe trick to get into console? Oct 17 16:01:01 pupnik: i'd go ask that to -developers Oct 17 16:01:04 i have plenty of things to work on if not possible :) Oct 17 16:01:36 nah noto important Oct 17 16:01:57 johnx: Nokia guys say it is a proximity sensor and they use it for fire button in q3 Oct 17 16:01:59 until i am a developer i stay off developers Oct 17 16:02:03 johnx: tested it, it works in q3 Oct 17 16:02:06 wow Oct 17 16:02:08 a bit erratically though Oct 17 16:02:11 well, losing a week of your loaned device would be important :) Oct 17 16:03:21 yeah but also not releasingn image to wild or to risk it mightt be mnuch more impoartant Oct 17 16:03:40 anyone use ssh on the device from linux and NOT know how to do passwd-less login? Oct 17 16:04:03 i forgot - hosts.allow_? Oct 17 16:04:30 I wrote it up ... if you want to test+comment : http://wiki.maemo.org/SSH Oct 17 16:04:44 * RST38h would avoid doing that Oct 17 16:04:55 RST38h why? Oct 17 16:05:07 Too easy to compromise the device Oct 17 16:05:20 significantly *more* secure than a password actually Oct 17 16:05:36 most secure implementations insist on it Oct 17 16:06:34 lbt: a little (care about syncml) Oct 17 16:06:45 freenx uses such iirc Oct 17 16:07:09 hmmm Oct 17 16:07:14 Jaffa: I'm just interested ... I care because of egroupware and sync to local systems (not cloud) Oct 17 16:07:19 * javispedro uses openssh from inetd :) Oct 17 16:07:25 i.e. you limit login sources to your local machines? Oct 17 16:07:42 RST38h: no, you use a public/private key pair Oct 17 16:07:47 ah Oct 17 16:07:57 yea, this will be way better than the password Oct 17 16:08:28 Jaffa: and of course hermes may be relevant.... Oct 17 16:08:56 of course password+pub. key is even more secure :) Oct 17 16:09:00 On the other hand, you essentially store your password in the ~ of machine from which you log in Oct 17 16:09:03 Jaffa: I'd rather you'd said "yes, I need to support SyncML servers in hermes" Oct 17 16:09:15 RST38h: correct Oct 17 16:09:21 So whoever gets that key, can access the machine Oct 17 16:09:25 correct Oct 17 16:09:31 lbt, so it can setup a chain of compromises Oct 17 16:09:32 I would stick with the password. Oct 17 16:09:41 but on the other hand, most people use the same password for lots of machines... Oct 17 16:09:42 it is in my brain. Oct 17 16:09:50 lbt: I don't need to support SyncML AFAIK Oct 17 16:10:00 lbt: Maybe they can do pics. Maybe that *would* be interesting Oct 17 16:10:05 Jaffa: you do... I'm sure of it... Oct 17 16:10:07 You can also use password + ssh key. Oct 17 16:10:09 can't be extracted without some thermorectal cryptoanalysis Oct 17 16:10:12 a key is generally safer than a password, because a password is easier leaked Oct 17 16:10:16 Which is secure even if someone steals your brain. Oct 17 16:10:35 Arkenklo: how so? Oct 17 16:10:53 * lbt aims a gun at RST38h Oct 17 16:11:05 RST38h: it's more lightly that someone will sniff the password from behird your shoulder than it is for them to sniff a file Oct 17 16:11:07 * lbt wonders if he'll die to keep the pw safe? Oct 17 16:11:08 * RST38h moos at lbt Oct 17 16:11:11 lbt, and gets him to hand over his ~/.ssh? Oct 17 16:11:21 can't do that though... Oct 17 16:11:53 just different approaches to getting the 'key' Oct 17 16:12:10 * RST38h makes a case for open source passwords: if you die, people can still log in Oct 17 16:12:18 but you're 100% correct that the passwd in ~ needs protecting Oct 17 16:12:19 holy shitnipples, I just realized that I can simply copy my ~/.ssh to mah future n900, and everything will work Oct 17 16:12:25 so you end up setting up a password for the key file, and back to stage 1. Oct 17 16:12:26 linux is awesome Oct 17 16:12:27 lol Oct 17 16:12:28 more or less Oct 17 16:12:31 luckily ssh allows a passphrase to encrypt it Oct 17 16:12:41 Arkenklo: yes Oct 17 16:12:46 it's all just a matter of what compromises you're willing to make Oct 17 16:12:50 a key + phrase is better than anything Oct 17 16:13:06 Arkenklo: key + phrase + token Oct 17 16:13:09 well, within reasonable bounds Oct 17 16:13:16 Arkenklo: you need to copy id_rsa.pub to authorized_keys too Oct 17 16:13:36 lbt: right Oct 17 16:13:38 lbt: I'll investigate Oct 17 16:13:43 Jaffa: :) Oct 17 16:14:05 if you do support it I'll volunteer to help on that side Oct 17 16:14:09 this reminds me, I recently was able to retrieve a private key stored on one of my schools servers Oct 17 16:14:34 wrong read permissions? Oct 17 16:14:42 indeed Oct 17 16:14:57 the entire root filesystem was mounted as a network share, lol Oct 17 16:15:03 if the permissions are wrong generally ssh keeps you from logging in with it Oct 17 16:15:11 ah, so just a brain dead setup Oct 17 16:15:17 Jaffa: also avatars from Gravatar.com ? Oct 17 16:15:31 and maybe maemo? Oct 17 16:15:43 * timeless_mbp looks for people who have tried a certain package Oct 17 16:15:57 timeless_mbp: ah, *that* package Oct 17 16:16:04 the brown paper one? Oct 17 16:16:13 *nod* *wink* Oct 17 16:16:18 "software fails in a certain situation" Oct 17 16:16:27 a bug title for 50% of the bugs :) Oct 17 16:16:29 cat rcd.pem Oct 17 16:16:29 -----BEGIN RSA PRIVATE KEY----- Oct 17 16:16:29 MIICWwIBAAKBgQC3RvYfdoqy7BhsH2+m+4o2hN8ZfuTArnSDeiNud4YXyOGhjPDe Oct 17 16:17:05 Do we need to see that? Oct 17 16:17:31 RST38h: no, right. Oct 17 16:17:37 a pem is a cert, not an ssh key Oct 17 16:18:34 yeah, there a "BEGIN CERTIFICATE" as well Oct 17 16:18:48 nothing to do with ssh Oct 17 16:19:30 you might be able to hack the ldap server. But it's probably easier to phone up and claim to be the school admin office. Oct 17 16:19:45 debuild -b Oct 17 16:19:46 sb_gcc_wrapper (gcc): /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc: No such file or directory Oct 17 16:19:48 nice Oct 17 16:19:55 * lbt likes scratchbox *so* much Oct 17 16:20:26 indeed, but applying social engineering is too easy, plus I don't want it to appear as I'm actively trying to hack Oct 17 16:29:29 * timeless_mbp frowns Oct 17 16:29:54 * Firebird also frowns Oct 17 16:30:11 jeremiah: ping Oct 17 16:30:21 woo, "[2009-10-17 19:34:13] libsdl1.3 0.0~git has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository" Oct 17 16:32:25 aargh, bloody Debian building! Oct 17 16:33:19 fighting with dpkg? Oct 17 16:33:48 nah, got some ubuntu packages I'm trying to get to build Oct 17 16:34:05 and everything it wants we don't have, in terms of the version #s Oct 17 16:34:30 is there a dh_* that tries to build a ./debian dir and fill it in? Oct 17 16:34:40 dh_make? Oct 17 16:34:53 lardman: Btw how is libchamplain stuff going? Oct 17 16:35:10 RST38h: in extras-devel, however I don't see any output on the screen Oct 17 16:35:14 no maps anyway Oct 17 16:35:20 hmmm Oct 17 16:35:22 am talking to the dev about how to fix/debug it Oct 17 16:35:46 lbt: gravatar's a good idea. Not sure how to link on maemo.org Oct 17 16:35:48 am also part way through porting emerillon, which looks like what I was planning to write Oct 17 16:35:57 the developer guy aggregates his blog via Planet Maemo Oct 17 16:36:09 so he should be aware of the tablets' existance =) Oct 17 16:36:10 yeah, used to work for Collabora Oct 17 16:36:11 finally, libsdl1.3 is in extras-devel Oct 17 16:36:34 RST38h: but has no N900 as his work was internal, so only 55 karmas Oct 17 16:36:37 * RST38h still hopes Gnuite returns and ports Maemo Mapper =) Oct 17 16:36:45 lardman: shame =( Oct 17 16:36:53 RST38h: will it not cross-compile? Oct 17 16:37:05 Also shame that Gnuite does not have an N900 Oct 17 16:37:16 lardman: Don't think so, or it would be already in the repo Oct 17 16:37:27 RST38h: There were issues with prototypes and NDAs going into Google offices :-/ Oct 17 16:37:30 http://maemo.org/profile/view/ | scrape-avatar Oct 17 16:37:31 s/cross-// Oct 17 16:37:32 lardman meant: RST38h: will it not compile? Oct 17 16:37:42 Jaffa: Will he get a discount though/ Oct 17 16:37:58 lbt: how to find a contact's handle? Oct 17 16:38:02 I reckon it should compile ok, with only some minor changes for the GPS stuff Oct 17 16:38:12 I mean, Gnuite could have done it as a private developer. I never order anything to my work address. Oct 17 16:38:15 RST38h: Everyone who wasn't a Nokian or sub-contractor with karma >200 got offered Oct 17 16:38:29 RST38h: yeah, but people know his position Oct 17 16:38:46 and he couldn't come to the summit afaiu as he was doing the GSoC stuff Oct 17 16:38:49 RST38h: It's a clear conflict of interest, no matter how trustworthy to either Google or Nokia he is Oct 17 16:38:49 or so I heard Oct 17 16:39:00 Jaffa: add the field ? Oct 17 16:39:10 Jaffa: I do not see it as a clear conflict, but yea, it can be seen this way Oct 17 16:39:10 lbt: Match on nickname? Oct 17 16:39:12 Oct 17 16:39:16 yes Oct 17 16:39:42 am beginning to wish I had picked up a loan device at the conf though so I could pass it on Oct 17 16:39:47 lbt: Will do. Oct 17 16:39:49 s/conf/summit Oct 17 16:40:00 lardman: I think it'd've been unethical TBH Oct 17 16:40:43 Anyone know what happened to canola? A long time ago development was moving at a good pace and they came out with some cool stuff. And then it seems everything has stopped for about a year now. The site has not even been updated... Oct 17 16:40:48 * RST38h hates, Hates, HATES "internet video". Who ever thought that smeary, jittery, out of focus YouTube video would be considered "normal"? Oct 17 16:41:13 speaking of which... is there an ETA for the summit video? Oct 17 16:41:16 lardman: Well that would be a violation of the NDA Oct 17 16:41:26 * lbt wants to see the talks he missed Oct 17 16:41:35 (including contact/addressbook) Oct 17 16:42:18 lardman: If Nokia does not want to see Maemo Mapper in Fremantle Extras ASAP, who are we to disagree? :) Oct 17 16:43:10 JackBeSlow, development is definitely still in progress but I don't think they update the site all that often Oct 17 16:43:16 wasn't m-m a fremantle star? Oct 17 16:43:16 Jaffa: yeah, but Quim seemed to assume it had happened from reading TMO Oct 17 16:43:19 RST38h: Maemo Mapper was a Fremantle Star. gnuite doesn't seem to have done anything Oct 17 16:43:19 RST38h: yeah Oct 17 16:43:19 ah, ok. Oct 17 16:43:23 lardman: Really? Oct 17 16:43:44 RST38h, no, it wouldn't have been a NDA breach Oct 17 16:43:46 Jaffa: did you not read the TMO thread about getting devices for devs with low karma? Oct 17 16:43:51 read the last 2 pages Oct 17 16:43:52 crashanddie: how so? Oct 17 16:44:07 RST38h, well, the loan paper says you're "provided with a device" Oct 17 16:44:07 gnuite has plenty of karma Oct 17 16:44:09 JackBeSlow, somtimes people are on #canola (depending on the time of day) Oct 17 16:44:16 Jaffa: Haven't heard anything from/about Gnuite for months =( Oct 17 16:44:25 it only says you have to give it back, bla bla bla, it doesn't say you are the one who has to use it Oct 17 16:44:40 crashanddie: oh you are talking of the "new" NDA... Oct 17 16:45:04 RST38h, there's only one that concerns the summit n900 Oct 17 16:45:21 johnx: Already there talking to them, thanks :) Oct 17 16:45:24 well we have to sign that one now anyway I understand Oct 17 16:45:40 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=349605#post349605 <=== guy has a point Oct 17 16:45:56 lardman: I still can't figure out this one Oct 17 16:47:36 how to do it? Or what? Oct 17 16:47:52 Should be pretty easy to achieve, would prefer to integrate it with the camera app though Oct 17 16:48:08 whether we need to sign the second one Oct 17 16:48:11 may be slow of course to do the processing, but c'est la vie Oct 17 16:48:14 to do it right you need a tripod or a rectifier Oct 17 16:48:28 lardman: should discuss this with ab, unless he finds time to read t.m.o Oct 17 16:48:44 RST38h: oh, well the way I read it we were supposed to, but no-one replied to VDVsx's qiestion Oct 17 16:48:47 too bad there's no tripod mount Oct 17 16:48:48 Speed: not if you make shots in quick succession Oct 17 16:48:49 afaicr Oct 17 16:48:59 Speed: which you CAN do with programmable camera Oct 17 16:49:01 that would have been quite cool for bikes/cars/tripods Oct 17 16:49:27 lardman: sending certified mail from here to .fi is $40. So I am reluctant for now =) Oct 17 16:49:43 will be same sort of cost from here Oct 17 16:50:00 Yes, but you can just send with Royal Mail =) Oct 17 16:50:21 and if it doesn't arrive (due to strike/stealing/random crushing event)?! ;) Oct 17 16:50:45 does Royal Mail offer insurance? :) Oct 17 16:50:58 Has better chance of arriving than if I send it with Post of Russia Oct 17 16:51:02 RST38h: I doubt the camera reads out much faster than 1/3s or so - probably slower Oct 17 16:51:02 how to check between fremantle and diablo from shell ? Oct 17 16:51:08 RST38h, humm, if you sign the new one, your loan will be reduced to 6 months, right ? Oct 17 16:51:17 VDVsx: Guess so Oct 17 16:51:21 (the good camera) Oct 17 16:51:38 VDVsx: But I hope to buy m own in these 6 months anyway Oct 17 16:52:04 RST38h, ok, so I don't know anything about that and this conversation never happened ;) Oct 17 16:52:25 actually, do you really believe nokia will ask you for your devices back in 6 months? Oct 17 16:52:36 they will be worthless for nokia., Oct 17 16:52:50 JackBeSlow: only up to ~ÂŁ50 or so Oct 17 16:52:56 perhaps less Oct 17 16:52:56 there's no /etc/maemo_release on the device Oct 17 16:52:57 RST38h, I'm not sure if I can, so I'ill remain quite in the meantime Oct 17 16:52:58 lame Oct 17 16:54:11 When the USPS was in the habit of losing things I started insuring letters etc for $1000, it cost me about $2 so I figured it's like playing the lottery Oct 17 16:54:35 lol Oct 17 16:55:42 JackBeSlow, I take it you didn't win? Oct 17 16:55:56 Nope :( lol Oct 17 16:58:13 Do you think there is a chance of a price drop for the n900 in the next couple of months? I have talked myself into getting one, but the price is still staggering for me. Oct 17 16:58:57 JackBeSlow: the price usually is highest just after launch Oct 17 16:59:07 I expect some wicked cristmas-offers Oct 17 16:59:11 * lardman prays for a simultaneous drop in the Euro and amazing rise in the ÂŁ to make it cheaper ;) Oct 17 16:59:14 if someone told me I had to bet on when the price drop would be, I'd say sometime in January Oct 17 16:59:43 lardman, wouldn't that destroy your economy in terms of exports? Oct 17 17:00:05 JackBeSlow: not with the way the US dollar is going Oct 17 17:00:09 Arkenklo: Hmm, good point. I think I may wait until then. Oct 17 17:00:10 johnx: who cares, he gets his n900 Oct 17 17:00:59 doc|home: Well we can already get it on amazon etc for $580 which is a heck of a lot cheaper than the price overseas. Oct 17 17:01:07 johnx: who cares, only needs to be for a week ;) Oct 17 17:01:26 JackBeSlow: no/less taxes Oct 17 17:01:27 and we don;t have anyone employed anymore doing any exporting Oct 17 17:01:31 what's the euro-price from the nokiashop after rebate? Oct 17 17:02:08 doc|home: amazon does not tax unless you are from certain states. Oct 17 17:02:27 JackBeSlow: that's my point. Overseas prices generally include VAT (e.g.) Oct 17 17:02:29 spotify:track:2TYpUo7kRQcJe9U6j7C9Qs Oct 17 17:02:32 woops Oct 17 17:02:49 doc|home: never knew that Oct 17 17:03:09 JackBeSlow: in Ireland for one, that's an extra 20/21% Oct 17 17:03:15 wow Oct 17 17:03:27 yep Oct 17 17:04:27 in Finland we pay extra 22% Oct 17 17:04:57 Is that just a normal sales tax? Oct 17 17:05:08 yes Oct 17 17:05:20 VAT in Germany 19% Oct 17 17:05:55 25 in .dk Oct 17 17:06:09 ouch Oct 17 17:06:16 Do you guys feel like those taxes are actually being put to some good use? That seems incredibly high to me. Oct 17 17:06:46 which taxes ever had been put to good use? :-P Oct 17 17:06:49 I mean I have a 7% state tax but that does not apply to anything I get online. Oct 17 17:06:58 DocScrutinizer: :( good point. Oct 17 17:07:10 i get free school,uni,doctor,hospital / healthcare, etc Oct 17 17:07:15 i dont mind. Oct 17 17:08:02 VAT in UK is only 15% Oct 17 17:08:04 atm, Oct 17 17:08:07 wow, healthcare is another xx% of your income here Oct 17 17:08:25 Well considering Uni costs me about $6k a year, one trip to the doctors with swine flue cost me $1200 and that was with insurance...I see your point. Oct 17 17:09:00 after rebate the price in italy is 479 euro Oct 17 17:09:15 for swine-flu? Oct 17 17:09:21 :) Oct 17 17:09:23 My parents medical insurance is higher than their mortgage. Oct 17 17:09:59 lbt: officially there's some other way to get the system version, i don't remember what :) Oct 17 17:10:03 yeah it spread pretty wide here, there were a few hundred cases at my school. Oct 17 17:10:06 * frals enjoys univeristy for free and "free" healthcare Oct 17 17:10:07 hi Oct 17 17:10:21 frals: is your university education valuable? Oct 17 17:10:23 hm what should I buy in cambridge Oct 17 17:10:26 if [ -z "$oldversion" -a -x /usr/bin/maemo-select-menu-location ]; then Oct 17 17:10:35 Oct 17 17:10:38 args there is the raynair backage limit Oct 17 17:11:08 well, its one of the best in sweden, so id say so, wont know until i get a job i guess Oct 17 17:11:08 i've found the people i've met in certain countries with university educations did not get something i'd consider valuable Oct 17 17:11:49 with free university edutacions Oct 17 17:11:57 sydlexisa Oct 17 17:12:28 but also now with private. turns out these investments were overvalued Oct 17 17:12:33 and the content watered down Oct 17 17:12:40 pupnik, agreed. Oct 17 17:12:53 this happens more than what I liked.... Oct 17 17:13:40 I'm not yet educationally at university level, but I don't feel I have any use of anything within my scope of interest, because I already know everything Oct 17 17:13:52 Arkenklo lol Oct 17 17:14:09 people are asking harder questions today. "do i need this|" Oct 17 17:14:15 I basically know everything about computers except SQL-syntax Oct 17 17:14:24 hmm. Forcing xrandr is....interesting Oct 17 17:14:31 s/except/up to Oct 17 17:14:36 Arkenklo univeristy is not about teaching comp languages Oct 17 17:14:47 javispedro, care to write a gles program to test sdl1.3 performance/if it works at all? Oct 17 17:14:54 Arkenklo univeristy is for understabding process and making science Oct 17 17:15:10 dunno, my education is about getting the "foundation" for programming languages/object oriented design/math Oct 17 17:15:10 working scientific Oct 17 17:15:38 Firebird: not today, I was sick yesterday and decided not to code today. Oct 17 17:15:43 and in fact I should be outside. Oct 17 17:16:02 ah, alright, I'll see if I can get something out of this OGLES book Oct 17 17:16:09 woglinde: indeed, but it's hard for me to compare to a concept I have no knowledge about, sql was just the first thing I could think of Oct 17 17:17:35 I actually teach my TEACHER things Oct 17 17:17:45 arkenklo *g* Oct 17 17:18:49 javispedro, does maemo have a define like: "#ifdef __IPHONEOS__" ? Oct 17 17:19:09 Firebird lol Oct 17 17:19:34 hmm, anyone know how I get debian/rules to use autotools? Oct 17 17:19:37 heh Oct 17 17:19:39 (yuck! ;)) Oct 17 17:19:50 woglinde, saw it in a SDL header file Oct 17 17:19:51 Arkenklo: anyway... Oct 17 17:20:02 university and pre university are good times to learn languages Oct 17 17:20:06 lardman hm most I saw using autoreconf directly Oct 17 17:20:08 learn about culture Oct 17 17:20:14 but let me google quick Oct 17 17:20:14 culture? Oct 17 17:20:14 socialize Oct 17 17:20:19 human culture? Oct 17 17:20:21 Arkenklo: i know quite a lot of bright C.S. people (and I mean REALLY bright) who get lost when the window "Open with..." dialog comes up while they try to open un PDF files. be kind. Oct 17 17:20:27 s/window/Windows Oct 17 17:20:29 stuff that predates the modern era Oct 17 17:20:56 javispedro: they need to upgrade to GMail Oct 17 17:20:58 woglinde: ok, thanks Oct 17 17:21:01 timeless: you mean like before... before 4chan? Oct 17 17:21:01 gmail solves that problem... Oct 17 17:21:07 SpeedEvil: grr Oct 17 17:21:09 timeless_mbp: unless you're talking about computer hardware, you lost me Oct 17 17:21:27 Arkenklo: see, University is a great way for you to learn what i'm talking about Oct 17 17:21:38 it'll help you when you travel to BoFs Oct 17 17:21:55 Firebird: lbt was asking this moments ago.... If you're using hildon, you have a predefined HILDON_VERSION macro. If you don't, you can read /etc/maemo_version file in the makefile and define the macros yourself. Oct 17 17:22:48 but /maemo_version file is not present in device, only from maemo-version package in autobuilder. Oct 17 17:22:51 er.. sdk. Oct 17 17:23:03 lardman hm all I found is autotools-dev package which should explain it Oct 17 17:23:06 http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/tools.html#autotools-dev Oct 17 17:23:31 dont know if it is maemo Oct 17 17:23:49 * timeless_mbp goes to try to hunt dinner (again) Oct 17 17:24:18 * javispedro goes outside for a walk. see you. Oct 17 17:24:24 good lick timeless Oct 17 17:24:29 woglinde: such a pita all this stuff Oct 17 17:24:29 args luck Oct 17 17:24:31 :( Oct 17 17:24:44 lardman in oe we do inherit autotools_stage Oct 17 17:24:56 and sometimes have to delete old autoconf stuff Oct 17 17:25:02 before Oct 17 17:25:11 to get the newer libtool forinstance Oct 17 17:26:47 I still think that the knowledge gained in classrooms is far overshadowed by that gained by simply playing around with stuff Oct 17 17:27:13 Jaffa, you up for drinks next week? Oct 17 17:27:21 * crashanddie_ lost his mentor today :( Oct 17 17:27:24 Arkenklo hm theoretical computer sience is a must Oct 17 17:27:36 so you can judge some implementations Oct 17 17:27:38 woglinde: please define Oct 17 17:27:43 woglinde, not true Oct 17 17:27:52 crashanddie bah Oct 17 17:27:59 woglinde, first rule of computer science: any implementation done by anyone else than yourself is UTTER SHIT Oct 17 17:27:59 O notation Oct 17 17:28:09 crashanddie *g* Oct 17 17:29:11 woglinde: theoretical is necessary to understand why some guys came up with utter shit implementations despite theoretically being fairly capable Oct 17 17:29:46 ah well, that, and reading dilbert Oct 17 17:30:03 glass yes we must have smoething to seperate aus from the avaerage php-programmer slave Oct 17 17:30:10 Arkenklo, it's like with anything. If you want to be a doctor, but don't understand the theory behind what you're supposed to analyse, how are you any good at it? Oct 17 17:30:14 args I am typing to fast Oct 17 17:30:16 for me, learning the theory is obligatory in all situations Oct 17 17:30:38 otherwise you haven't learned anything Oct 17 17:30:44 programming is not based on the language you used Oct 17 17:30:51 playing around with stuff gets to know how the stuff really goes Oct 17 17:30:57 the questionr should be how much theory, not whether or none Oct 17 17:31:04 the language, aka syntax, is just there to enable you, but the real magic happens in the way you see the issue and solution Oct 17 17:31:11 crashanddie_: absolutely Oct 17 17:31:35 VDVsx: By the way, no, signing the new NDA will not mean we have to return our year loaners back in 6 months. Quim already answered about that. Oct 17 17:32:57 hey all, can anyone tell me how hard would it be to recompile gcc on the sdk to include fortran support so that i can compile octave? Oct 17 17:33:15 maybe it's just me, but the best way for me to learn (and more importantly, understand) the theory and mechanics behind somethingis to see it in action Oct 17 17:33:47 RobertH[AU]: hmm, nasty Oct 17 17:33:54 RobertH[AU]: try compiling f2c and using that Oct 17 17:34:07 lardman fortran? Oct 17 17:34:11 RobertH[AU]: iirc it worked last time I tried to compile octave Oct 17 17:34:21 jo ph5 Oct 17 17:34:24 woglinde: yeah Oct 17 17:34:50 hej woglinde Oct 17 17:35:07 lardman ah right ocatve use it Oct 17 17:35:08 what's with skype file transfers on the n900? Oct 17 17:35:25 that's one of the reasons I'm attracted to FOSS, everything just makes sense Oct 17 17:35:32 Arkenklo lol Oct 17 17:35:35 woglinde: yeah, all engineering/maths sw is written in it Oct 17 17:35:39 mgedmin: Um.. okay.. what's with skype file transfers on the N900? Oct 17 17:35:41 things are where you expect them to be Oct 17 17:35:46 Arkenklo nope Oct 17 17:35:48 they don't work Oct 17 17:35:53 I get a message "$foo sent file $filename" then nothing happens Oct 17 17:35:57 Arkenklo try read about forks and flames Oct 17 17:36:12 mgedmin: I never expected file transfers to work. Oct 17 17:36:14 Arkenklo try to find about theo de raadt or joerg schilling Oct 17 17:36:36 Don't work on the other protocols.. but then again I don't see a "send file" for them. Oct 17 17:36:51 neither did I, but why the message then? Oct 17 17:36:51 I'd understand "$user tried to send file, but this is not supported yet" Oct 17 17:36:53 woglinde: "A flame fork is essential metal tubing connected to a propane tank." Oct 17 17:37:09 arkenklo *sigh* Oct 17 17:37:36 mgedmin: Yeah, strange. Maybe they just weren't able to finish it yet in the firmware we have. Oct 17 17:37:56 heh, I can imagine the source code Oct 17 17:38:10 transcript_window.add_message("USER sent file FILENAME"); Oct 17 17:38:18 / TODO: now do something with it Oct 17 17:38:20 return Oct 17 17:38:28 hehe Oct 17 17:38:37 lardman: i have tried that but i either get a "error: linking to Fortran libraries from C fails" error or a "error: cannot compile a simple Fortran program" error Oct 17 17:38:42 * mgedmin accidentally discovers a new IRC feature: double // at the beginning is equivalent to /say / Oct 17 17:38:56 /////////// Oct 17 17:38:59 mgedmin isnt it a client feature? Oct 17 17:39:02 woglinde: I'm not going to read about any Theo de Raadt if I don't know why I should Oct 17 17:39:02 maybe Oct 17 17:39:02 RobertH[AU]: you have to modify the configure script iirc Oct 17 17:39:05 mgedmin: duh Oct 17 17:39:15 pretty sure its client specific ;+ Oct 17 17:39:21 woglinde: all /commands are client features Oct 17 17:39:22 xchat fwiw Oct 17 17:39:31 RobertH[AU]: what platform is this? Oct 17 17:39:33 // is common to most (all?) clients as /me Oct 17 17:39:49 /nuke luke-jr from orbit Oct 17 17:39:56 i'm running the maemo 5 sdk on ubuntu 8.10 32bit Oct 17 17:40:03 Arkenklo because you said in FOSS world all is at it should, but it isnt Oct 17 17:40:07 NUKE Proteous Oct 17 17:40:14 heh Oct 17 17:40:18 Arkenklo and its a science topic at our university Oct 17 17:40:21 channel wide ctcp :( Oct 17 17:40:28 frals: that's what /me is ;p Oct 17 17:40:37 woglinde: not in the entire FOSS universe Oct 17 17:40:56 frals: /me ... == /ctcp ACTION ... Oct 17 17:41:37 * Proteous thinks luke-jr doen't know what he is talking about Oct 17 17:41:42 So why don't our clients interpret it as /me then if it's the same? :) Oct 17 17:41:51 anyone here built ethos for maemo or debian? Oct 17 17:42:05 dinner Oct 17 17:42:13 mmmm Oct 17 17:42:14 Answer: it's not. Oct 17 17:42:14 :) Oct 17 17:42:20 * frals hugs his mirc32 with proper /me Oct 17 17:42:32 irssi ftw Oct 17 17:42:55 Proteous: try it ;) Oct 17 17:43:00 Wireshark it Oct 17 17:43:08 lardman: do you recall what need's to be modified in the configure script? Oct 17 17:43:10 there is no difference between /me and CTCP Oct 17 17:43:14 TESTING 113 Oct 17 17:43:20 nope, not that same as /me Oct 17 17:43:28 * timeless kicks proteous Oct 17 17:43:34 RobertH[AU]: you'll probably need to alter the test which fails Oct 17 17:43:51 ah, now I remember Oct 17 17:43:52 /me is not ctcp... Oct 17 17:44:00 lardman: haha, alter as in remove? Oct 17 17:44:04 please don't do channel wide actions Oct 17 17:44:05 Proteous: yes it is Oct 17 17:44:06 there's a shell script you can use in place of g77 Oct 17 17:44:10 Proteous: CTCP ACTION, duh Oct 17 17:44:18 called, iirc fort77, which uses f2c Oct 17 17:44:27 timeless: you're banning /me ? Oct 17 17:44:39 lardman: ok thanks :) Oct 17 17:44:43 so get that installed and tell the configure script that's what you're using as your FORTRAN compiler, and all should be right as rain Oct 17 17:45:40 lardman: is the reason that fortran is not enabled in gcc because of some arm architecture issues? Oct 17 17:46:41 woglinde: if I didn't totally suck at arguing I'd be happy to continue Oct 17 17:47:04 but I do, so I can't think of anything to say that isn't pointless and dull Oct 17 17:47:08 luke-jr: You must be using some fucked IRC client. Oct 17 17:47:34 zerojay: it has nothing to do with clients Oct 17 17:47:44 it's a protocol design thing Oct 17 17:47:44 zerojay, any additional success with the browser plugins? Oct 17 17:48:07 Also, what about shipping a hosts/CSS .deb? Oct 17 17:48:17 RobertH[AU]: something like that, plus not many of us want it ;) Oct 17 17:48:24 luke-jr: Well, you're wrong because I ran through about 6 clients and none of them see /ctcp action and /me as the same. Oct 17 17:48:39 RobertH[AU]: is this for the N900? Oct 17 17:48:43 well, he's partialy right Oct 17 17:48:45 GAN900: That can be done... just a little worried about wiping out changes the user may have made. Oct 17 17:48:53 but only in the sence that saying TCP is the same as FTP Oct 17 17:48:54 zerojay: what if someone else sends it? Oct 17 17:49:02 luke-jr: Same thing. Oct 17 17:49:04 the /me functionality is a feature of CTCP Oct 17 17:49:10 but they are not one in the same Oct 17 17:49:24 Clients all see /ctcp or /me. Never mixes or gets them wrong. Oct 17 17:49:43 GAN900: No luck yet on Flashblock. I think I might not be using an old enough version. Oct 17 17:49:52 zerojay: there is no protocol difference between CTCP ACTION and /me Oct 17 17:49:56 so that is impossible Oct 17 17:50:03 luke-jr: Well, the clients show there must be. :) Oct 17 17:50:04 lardman: yes, i read a post on tmo that said frotran used to be in gcc in the sdk's (ages ago) but hen was removed bcuase of some arm issue but the post also meantioned it might not apply now that its armel Oct 17 17:50:20 applies to GCC 3, not to GCC 4 Oct 17 17:50:27 no idea why Oct 17 17:50:47 GAN900: And AdBlock Plus is now in extras-testing. Oct 17 17:51:21 Cool Oct 17 17:51:24 lardman: ok, so that issue should be gone. does this mean i can try with fortran enabled? i've never compiled gcc though i imagine it would be quite involved Oct 17 17:51:39 Can Adblock+ be configured from the new microb? Oct 17 17:51:41 yeah, as we use a pre-built toolchain it may be very painful Oct 17 17:51:47 I'd recommend using fort77 Oct 17 17:51:52 ok Oct 17 17:51:57 i'll look into it Oct 17 17:52:04 and just compiling and installing f2c (which the fort77 script uses) Oct 17 17:52:15 but i'll have to do that tomorrow, its 2 am here in Perth Australia Oct 17 17:52:17 night all Oct 17 17:52:21 is actually very easy, fort77 pretends to be a compile, etc Oct 17 17:52:22 * luke-jr wonders if anyone sees this as the CTCP message it is Oct 17 17:52:23 thanks for your help lardman Oct 17 17:52:26 RST38h: Let me try. Oct 17 17:52:30 np, catch me tomorrow evening Oct 17 17:52:41 lardman: ok cool, i'll try in the morn Oct 17 17:52:44 kk Oct 17 17:52:44 cya Oct 17 17:52:48 good luck :) Oct 17 17:53:04 RST38h: The dialog that lets you pick which subscriptions you want does not work, which is why I'm packaging it. Oct 17 17:53:24 the traffic here is killing me Oct 17 17:53:39 RST38h: Preferences button from the Add-Ons menu works. Oct 17 17:54:07 What traffic? This is quiet. Oct 17 17:54:08 coooool Oct 17 17:54:10 zerojay: nobody said that looked like CTCP Oct 17 17:54:17 but the subscriptions work right? Oct 17 17:54:32 * mgedmin was trying to catch up with the entire scrollback Oct 17 17:54:34 luke-jr: No one cares. Oct 17 17:54:51 * mgedmin demands iptables for maemo 5 again Oct 17 17:54:55 RST38h: taking the patterns.ini file from your PC install works. Oct 17 17:55:07 * mgedmin will keep demanding in very firm voice until somebody gives in and builds them for him Oct 17 17:55:18 So if you have your subs done on your PC, you can transfer them over and they should work. Oct 17 17:55:55 Basically I'm just taking the default patterns.ini file from the default EasyList sub and bringing it over since you can't seem to select it yourself. Oct 17 17:56:17 Yeah, the dialog isn't very functional at all. :/ Oct 17 17:56:35 maemo mapper on fremantle is coming! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=330044#post330044 Oct 17 17:56:58 RST38h: Only reason I didn't just grab all the country specific ones and stuff them all in patterns.ini is that I wasn't sure if that was going to cause the tablet to slow down or not. Oct 17 17:57:07 RST38h: Might try that next. Oct 17 17:58:44 zerojay: Grabbing all will most likely slow things down Oct 17 17:59:02 zerojay: Configuring depending on locale may work better though Oct 17 17:59:26 But patterns do not auto-update, right? Oct 17 17:59:54 RST38h: No, but I'll be putting out a bumped version of the package on a monthly basis with the only change being the updated patterns.ini file. Oct 17 18:00:51 Ah, thanks =) Oct 17 18:01:11 More if anyone thinks it needs to be updated more often. Oct 17 18:02:17 what is max n900 fm transmitter range observed? about 90cm here for a clean signal Oct 17 18:02:44 * RST38h wonders what will happen when you stick n900 into a Pringles tube Oct 17 18:03:50 i am impressed idiot governments havent made the fm xmitter a regulatory nightmare Oct 17 18:03:55 pupnik, from the passenger seat of my car to the antenna sticking out of the a-pillar on the driver's side Oct 17 18:04:00 RST38h, the end of the world Oct 17 18:04:09 about 2m there i guess Oct 17 18:04:13 pupnik: They have Oct 17 18:04:18 oh Oct 17 18:04:33 pupnik, it's a small car :) maybe less than 2m (1st gen subaru impreza) Oct 17 18:04:45 But fortunately it has been TI's problem, I guess Oct 17 18:04:46 Isn't that what the large hardon cylinder thingie that's going to end the world is? An n900 in a pringles can? Oct 17 18:05:03 Propelled at the speed of light, yes Oct 17 18:05:05 zerojay, fruedian slip? Oct 17 18:05:07 large hardon cylinder is nice freud Oct 17 18:05:09 lol Oct 17 18:05:13 johnx: Nope. :) Oct 17 18:06:06 Just my nickname for it. Oct 17 18:29:48 it would be very dilbert if they created a stable black hole or somethin likke tha Oct 17 18:32:00 I wish bugs.maemo.org had a browsing interface like https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi Oct 17 18:32:42 mgedmin write a whishbug Oct 17 18:32:43 * timeless_mbp sighs Oct 17 18:32:47 mgedmin: why? Oct 17 18:32:57 timeless_mbp whats up? Oct 17 18:33:31 mgedmin: https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=specific - not good enough? Oct 17 18:33:33 woglinde: well, i'm watching bones Oct 17 18:33:44 timeless_mbp hm Oct 17 18:34:08 but i'm trying to figure out if there's some way we could encourage people to be less ... something when they poke bugs Oct 17 18:34:20 bugs need to be limited to technical issues w/o advocacy Oct 17 18:34:32 you're quite direct in feedback. Oct 17 18:34:43 and people don't know much about internal political issues. Oct 17 18:34:49 hm, zerojay, you're right, it *is* good enough for what I wanted (see all Modest bugs) Oct 17 18:35:11 mgedmin: bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?product=Browser&resolution=--- Oct 17 18:35:33 ? Oct 17 18:35:36 timeless_mbp, if we get into politics with requests in b.g.o i normally assign to quim and keep them open if in doubt. that's really his tasks. Oct 17 18:35:39 general browsing :) Oct 17 18:36:04 andre__: i'd normally leave bugs open Oct 17 18:36:21 but if people annoy me, i'll kill them Oct 17 18:37:02 i always have the gnome code of conduct in mind which says "Assume people mean well" Oct 17 18:37:09 even though sometimes it's hard, i agree Oct 17 18:38:33 andre__, that's pretty much my guiding principle in life, but it goes more like "Never attribute to malice which can be equally explained by (stupidity | ignorance | incompetence )" Oct 17 18:39:02 drunkenness! Oct 17 18:39:43 exactly Oct 17 18:39:43 drunkenness leads to incompetence Oct 17 18:39:55 same for ignorance Oct 17 18:40:01 timeless_mbp, but you have more background info than others plus you're into this for years. if n900 is successful bugs.maemo.org will see reports by people that have never ever reported a bug (because it's not possible in the microsoft world). so i want it to be a polite place, even if we get reports that just waste time (-> "Please use a forum instead") Oct 17 18:40:13 does anyone with a working fremantle sdk think it would be worthwhile to tarball it and share via torrent? Oct 17 18:40:22 which was first, stupidity or malice? Oct 17 18:40:32 pupnik: why? Oct 17 18:40:34 i am stupid about most things in the universe Oct 17 18:40:39 includinng sdk Oct 17 18:40:47 i need it all on usb in vmware ultimately Oct 17 18:41:05 right now i have to find reflective tape to avoid dying on road Oct 17 18:41:19 pupnik: I don't understand, the fremantle sdk is available in two simple scripts to install Oct 17 18:41:25 why tar and share it? Oct 17 18:43:19 * timeless_mbp likes bones Oct 17 18:43:30 andre__: actually Oct 17 18:43:35 reporting bugs to ms is easy Oct 17 18:43:35 * mgedmin likes regenesis Oct 17 18:43:50 timeless, nowadays it's just a click, yes Oct 17 18:43:54 don't you have to pay for the privilege of reporting a bug to ms? Oct 17 18:43:57 but it goes into a black box Oct 17 18:43:59 has been for ages Oct 17 18:44:01 * mgedmin admits he never tried Oct 17 18:44:03 like current qt bug tracker :-P Oct 17 18:44:14 andre__: hey, i've added stuff to the qt bug tracker Oct 17 18:44:21 * timeless_mbp wonders what ever happened to them Oct 17 18:44:28 exactly. non transparent Oct 17 18:45:18 hm, interesting -- modest only checks subscribed folders, according to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3484 Oct 17 18:45:36 andre__: the problem is going to be for people who *do* know how to file bugs Oct 17 18:46:53 I can understand why Qt don't want a DoS attack by clueless noobies filing bugs when qmake doesn't work in capital Oct 17 18:47:23 btw where is the N900 crash reporter Oct 17 18:47:46 lbt: what do you mean? Oct 17 18:48:03 mentioned in a bug report Oct 17 18:48:15 oh yeah, we use it internally Oct 17 18:48:19 and it was released for use w/ diablo Oct 17 18:48:25 under the name of 'nitro' Oct 17 18:48:28 ah Oct 17 18:48:30 it got rebranded Oct 17 18:48:40 that's ... helpful Oct 17 18:49:07 who the F*** cares what the crash-reporter is called? Oct 17 18:49:14 very good question Oct 17 18:49:18 lemme know when you figure that one out Oct 17 18:49:27 *mutter* Oct 17 18:50:01 you can simply install it Oct 17 18:50:18 it's available. well, after adding two more repos probably, but... :-P Oct 17 18:50:26 andre__: ta - mention it's called nitro if you need it :) Oct 17 18:50:57 entering red pill mode is like entering a cheat in a game... Oct 17 18:51:03 quite funny I find this. Oct 17 18:52:05 crash reporter is already installed here. Oct 17 18:52:11 and it's not called nitro anymore i think Oct 17 18:52:20 * andre__ checks Oct 17 18:52:44 no, it's called "crash-reporter" Oct 17 18:52:53 heh Oct 17 18:53:11 * lbt apologises to those he wronged :) Oct 17 18:53:48 yay bugzilla! Oct 17 18:54:24 what commandline coulud i pas to n900 kernel to enter console runlevel or not load desktop widgets Oct 17 18:54:39 andre__: I tried installing crash-reporter and couldn't Oct 17 18:54:47 using flasher 3.0 --boot Oct 17 18:54:52 yeah, some deps i don't remember Oct 17 18:54:56 liblzo2-2 Oct 17 18:55:00 which repo has it? Oct 17 18:55:19 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/crash-reporter Oct 17 18:55:43 lbt: that's... not very informative Oct 17 18:56:07 it's a start... :( Oct 17 18:56:21 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 Oct 17 18:56:23 "These tools are available in the official maemo 5 Fremantle tools repository at repository.maemo.org" Oct 17 18:56:27 I have the tools repo enabled Oct 17 18:56:30 it does not have libzlo2-2 Oct 17 18:56:38 *liblzo2-2 Oct 17 18:56:59 sure - I didn't realise you'd seen it Oct 17 19:02:38 Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101 Oct 17 19:02:38 NOLO version 1.4.13 Oct 17 19:02:38 Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-10_PR_TRUE Oct 17 19:02:56 passing 3 to --boot does not give me console Oct 17 19:05:15 nor --boot 1 Oct 17 19:05:30 hmm Oct 17 19:05:36 if someone knows anything i can pass to kernel to boot wo desktop lemme knw ty Oct 17 19:09:17 assd Oct 17 19:13:25 pupnik: um Oct 17 19:13:33 where precisely do you expect the console to be? Oct 17 19:13:49 if the ui hangs how do I restart? Oct 17 19:13:58 I have ssh Oct 17 19:13:59 you can press and hold the power button Oct 17 19:14:03 reboot Oct 17 19:14:04 ? Oct 17 19:14:10 or do you just want to poke x11? Oct 17 19:14:18 if possible Oct 17 19:14:25 probably not ;-) Oct 17 19:14:53 actually Oct 17 19:14:54 it is Oct 17 19:15:20 S51hildon-desktop restart Oct 17 19:16:07 ? Oct 17 19:16:26 * timeless_mbp shrugs Oct 17 19:17:00 what i remember is that the device can pretend to reboot Oct 17 19:18:02 that was a proper reboot Oct 17 19:56:22 my ssh connection timed out *over usb0* Oct 17 19:56:25 what the? Oct 17 19:56:48 slow usb connection? :P Oct 17 19:56:56 seriously though: crappy cables? crappy hub? Oct 17 19:57:23 * johnx plays with fremantle-n800 :) Oct 17 20:03:31 fremantle-n800?? Oct 17 20:03:41 * timeless_mbp looks around Oct 17 20:03:55 mer :) Oct 17 20:04:02 what version? Oct 17 20:04:16 the one Stskeeps linked a couple hours ago Oct 17 20:04:25 don't remember if it was here or #mer Oct 17 20:05:00 don't get too excited. it really needs at least a *little* bit of acceleration to be usably fast Oct 17 20:05:29 http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/n800-polished.tar.gz Oct 17 20:06:51 i'm using 0.15 Oct 17 20:06:59 what's the latest vmx? Oct 17 20:07:03 err vmdk Oct 17 20:07:37 probably the 0.16 (if it finished building?) Oct 17 20:07:38 building still in imager Oct 17 20:08:48 imager? Oct 17 20:09:24 the thing that builds vmdk,tar.gz etc Oct 17 20:12:29 A 75-year-old dead man sat decomposing on his Marina del Rey balcony for days because neighbors thought the body was part of a Halloween display and didnt call police. Oct 17 20:12:58 kinda makes it sound like he was dead for 75 years Oct 17 20:13:14 Such cases are also known Oct 17 20:15:37 who died? Oct 17 20:31:41 so... Oct 17 20:31:49 * timeless_mbp fishes for people w/ n900s Oct 17 20:31:49 so what? Oct 17 20:32:03 * timeless_mbp is greedy Oct 17 20:32:05 * timeless_mbp wants testers Oct 17 20:32:07 timeless_mbp: ? Oct 17 20:32:10 timeless_mbp: for what? Oct 17 20:32:14 they're all busy playing bounce evolution. Oct 17 20:32:21 my English translation Oct 17 20:32:42 of what? Oct 17 20:32:46 the n900 Oct 17 20:32:50 my N900 already is in English. Oct 17 20:33:03 um... Oct 17 20:33:07 i thought it comes with klingon Oct 17 20:33:07 only ran into something weird with some app... Oct 17 20:33:42 Instructions said Ok to quit and Cancel to stay, but buttons said Yes and No Oct 17 20:33:51 sounds like maemo mapper Oct 17 20:33:55 or a web app Oct 17 20:33:59 web Oct 17 20:34:18 yeah Oct 17 20:34:20 we know Oct 17 20:34:25 * timeless_mbp yelled at someone about that Oct 17 20:34:29 not sure if we'll be able to fix it Oct 17 20:34:48 the hazards of caving to clueless platform ui designers with a misdirected bent on platform unity Oct 17 20:39:14 is it correct that Fremantle does not use Xrandr? Oct 17 20:40:46 cvandonderen seems so Oct 17 20:40:52 it uses window atomics Oct 17 20:41:00 watching video on these things is goooood Oct 17 20:41:07 rst? Oct 17 20:41:13 well, atoms are for telling the wm if the window supports/requests rotation Oct 17 20:41:25 woglinde: nothing, just watched a few last soap episodes on the tablet Oct 17 20:41:28 javis hm right Oct 17 20:41:30 but I don't know if the wm itself uses xrandr to do the actual rotation. Oct 17 20:41:38 or just sets some magic flags in the compositor. Oct 17 20:42:01 rst ah right some guys doubled the work and uses gst-dsp instead of gst-ti Oct 17 20:42:02 javispedro: The most obvious idea would be to simply resize the window Oct 17 20:42:13 I like the gst-ti appriach more Oct 17 20:42:22 woglinde: what is the difference? Oct 17 20:42:54 javispedro: so, resizing it from 800x480 to 480x800 is not elite enough or am I missing something? Oct 17 20:43:18 RST38h: dunno, I've nothing against any of the approaches. it's just a matter of looking at hildon-desktop source and see what it does. Oct 17 20:43:36 rst hm Oct 17 20:44:01 rst gst-ti has more kernel modules in the end Oct 17 20:44:11 some with power saving Oct 17 20:48:29 Helloo everybody Oct 17 20:48:33 woglinde: so, gst-ti is supplied by ti and gst-dsp is done by some beagle guys? Oct 17 20:49:04 gst-dsp was done mostly by me Oct 17 20:49:40 gst-ti is for davinci platform, depends on codec-engine, and dmai, and uses the dsp-link driver Oct 17 20:49:43 felipec: :)))) Oct 17 20:49:49 RST38h yeah Oct 17 20:50:06 gst-ti is for ompa35xx too Oct 17 20:50:08 gst-dsp is for dsp-bridge driver, and has no dependencies whatsoever Oct 17 20:50:12 well I can almost guess how the choice has been motivated Oct 17 20:51:13 RST38h: how would that be? Oct 17 20:51:33 RST38h ti is trying to most of stuff public under gpl or similar Oct 17 20:52:00 felipec: "some weird stuff from ti depending on other weird stuff, supported by some unnamed person at ti to whom you are supposed to talk through 3 managers" Oct 17 20:52:11 hello Oct 17 20:52:17 can someone try out http://tech.rancorous.net Oct 17 20:52:18 ? Oct 17 20:52:18 RST38h nope Oct 17 20:52:27 the people are known Oct 17 20:52:30 * GAN900 really wants to stab aolsystemmsg to death Oct 17 20:52:32 and just let me know if it connects and displays Oct 17 20:52:36 they even have a channel gere Oct 17 20:52:37 here Oct 17 20:52:43 Macer, yes, I can see a webpage. Your server works. Oct 17 20:52:44 #gst-ti Oct 17 20:52:44 woglinde: then why? Oct 17 20:52:47 Macer: works for me Oct 17 20:52:54 awesome. thanks :) Oct 17 20:52:56 I recall why I maintained a separate AIM account for my tablet. Oct 17 20:52:59 the biggest mistake from TI was to provide two solutions, one for davinci platform and another one for the wireless stuff Oct 17 20:53:02 Macer: Works Oct 17 20:53:13 so... have I missed any more ranting? Oct 17 20:53:19 felipec: Oh... Oct 17 20:53:23 both of them deviating from the open-source implementations Oct 17 20:53:23 well.. let me start up the other vbox and see if my server crashes again Oct 17 20:53:50 felipec: Are they unifying it now though? Oct 17 20:53:52 felpic am I right you are depening on the dsp files? Oct 17 20:53:52 why do you people not use screen to use irc/IM from various places Oct 17 20:54:12 * RST38h uses screen. Why ask? Oct 17 20:54:24 RST38h: yeah, I think that's their plan for OMAP4, but OMAP3 seems to be screwed Oct 17 20:54:25 * Stskeeps too Oct 17 20:54:33 because i choose not to. Oct 17 20:54:36 and xchat when on low latency Oct 17 20:54:40 er, high Oct 17 20:55:00 woglinde: dsp files? Oct 17 20:55:02 Shapeshifter: because screen hates me Oct 17 20:55:02 and then there are irc proxies Oct 17 20:55:06 it tends to fsck things up Oct 17 20:55:08 mgedmin: it does? Oct 17 20:55:09 felpic the .c64 Oct 17 20:55:11 how so? :| Oct 17 20:55:17 e.g. on a n900 do ssh someserver; mutt --> all works Oct 17 20:55:23 mgedmin: screen requires regular sacrifice Oct 17 20:55:33 do ssh someserver; screen mutt -> enter no longer is an enter, but "unknown keybinding" Oct 17 20:55:34 woglinde: no, TI provide us with the final .dll64P files Oct 17 20:55:40 mgedmin: not much though, a hamster or two a week will do Oct 17 20:55:50 mgedmin: mh Oct 17 20:56:10 I assume it works for you with irssi? Oct 17 20:56:11 felipec yeah in gst-ti you can work on them too Oct 17 20:56:12 mgedmin: switch to FreeBSD and PINE, work beautifully with screen Oct 17 20:56:27 mgedmin: Besides, you get an additional advantage of using the PICO! Oct 17 20:56:35 The only problem I ever had with screen is when I used it on cygwin, where not detaching manually would lead to the session being broken and impossible to attach to again. Oct 17 20:56:38 all the time Oct 17 20:56:45 * RST38h laughs satanically Oct 17 20:56:47 so, screen is pretty much broken in cygwin I think. Oct 17 20:56:51 :autodetach on Oct 17 20:56:59 Stskeeps: it was on Oct 17 20:57:01 Shape: s/screen/everything/ Oct 17 20:57:09 also screen tends to slow things down noticeably Oct 17 20:57:19 not really Oct 17 20:57:21 woglinde: probably, but gst-ti is for dsp-link, which is not supported by TI wireless division, which is the one for phones Oct 17 20:57:38 woglinde: and dsp-link doesn't have power management AFAIK Oct 17 20:57:40 i prefer using a tablet client when i'm on it. Oct 17 20:58:02 felipec hu??? there is a kernel module for it Oct 17 20:58:58 woglinde: so? N900 is a consumer product, we need official support from the chipset vendor, and TI's solution is with dsp-bridge, not dsp-link Oct 17 20:59:40 felipec hm yes I understand that Oct 17 20:59:50 woglinde: and again, dsp-link doesn't support power management, which is critical in a phone Oct 17 21:00:35 felipec I will test both stuff if I ever get a n900 Oct 17 21:02:14 moreover dsp-link is a complete mess, dsp-bridge at least has been cleaned up by Nokia developers, and is a bit closer to linux kernel standards Oct 17 21:02:27 hmmm... Oct 17 21:02:55 with a bit of work it might be merged upstream Oct 17 21:03:07 ah that would be cool Oct 17 21:03:16 dsp-link hasn't even been submitted for review Oct 17 21:21:32 felipec: so, we are coming back to my original suspicion :) Oct 17 21:24:23 heh. Oct 17 21:24:29 RST38h: huh? TI provided us with a solution based on dsp-bridge: libbridge, and tiopenmax... I started gst-dsp on my free-time, and found it that it performed much better, so we used it :) Oct 17 21:24:47 if the spain nokia store is any accurate, the n900 is the "top seller" phone right now. Oct 17 21:25:03 felipec: I referred to your mention of dsp-link being complete mess Oct 17 21:26:05 Oct 17 21:26:11 bye rst Oct 17 21:26:12 RST38h: heh, sorry, what original suspicion are you talking about? Oct 17 21:26:38 felipec: that the ti solution was messy and not sufficiently supported Oct 17 21:26:52 g'night javis Oct 17 21:27:16 anyone knows a mirror for codesourcery.com stuff? site is dawn slow. Oct 17 21:27:31 s/dawn/damn Oct 17 21:27:35 javispedro nope Oct 17 21:28:07 well, I have to download half a gigabyte at V.90 speeds. Oct 17 21:29:27 !summon qwerty Oct 17 21:29:43 ~100$ Oct 17 21:30:07 uh oh I closed my own bug as RESOLVED INVALID by accident Oct 17 21:30:14 reopen :) Oct 17 21:30:18 felipec is TI releasing some more codecs in future? Oct 17 21:30:37 anyone here understand how maemo decides if an application window wants to be system modal? Oct 17 21:31:10 no, but I would like to thwack some of those system modal windows over the head for being system modal for no good reason Oct 17 21:31:14 ovi account validation for one Oct 17 21:32:01 woglinde: what do you mean by releasing? :) Oct 17 21:32:52 *sigh* Oct 17 21:33:15 I thought you somehow worked together with them Oct 17 21:34:38 shhh don't blow his cover Oct 17 21:35:00 woglinde: yes, but there are programs, requirements, and licenses Oct 17 21:35:15 felipec right Oct 17 21:35:28 woglinde: they provide us with updates according to those, let's say for the Fremantle program Oct 17 21:35:57 woglinde: what they provide for Harmattan is different... and they also provide some public binaries, which are also different Oct 17 21:36:11 felipec okay I will how I can integrate it in oe Oct 17 21:57:10 mgedmin: hrm Oct 17 21:57:26 could i convince you to investigate what it would take to make zenity dialogs not system modal? Oct 17 21:58:12 Jaffa, would you know how to play a sine from python? Oct 17 22:01:05 Does anyone know how to get apps on Andorid on the n810? Oct 17 22:01:24 TechGeek2: yes, it's not possible Oct 17 22:01:26 timeless_mbp: you probably could, but with my lack of relevant context knowledge it would not be the most efficient way Oct 17 22:01:47 can't you kidnap a nokian and interrogate him/her? Oct 17 22:02:14 from what I've picked up, you basically require the entire android system virtualized for it to work Oct 17 22:02:24 mgedmin: i'd almost certainly get the wrong one Oct 17 22:03:18 can anyone teach me how to port android to the n810 then? How do you convert the fiels so they work on teh n810? Oct 17 22:03:47 * timeless_mbp sighs Oct 17 22:03:54 this is #maemo, not #android Oct 17 22:04:02 TechGeek2: I doubt that someone will teach you, but it certainely can be done Oct 17 22:04:10 ....(i think) Oct 17 22:04:13 well, to be fair the question crosses both domains Oct 17 22:04:16 wonder nobody has yet suggested running windows mobile on N900. I mean, as hacked-in version, heroic microsoft fans have certainly stated that the device is flawed because it doesn't have winmo preinstalled. Oct 17 22:04:27 sadly, the answer is probably "step 1: study advanced computer things for 5 years" Oct 17 22:04:29 mgedmin: it might cross #n810 or #n800 Oct 17 22:04:32 mgedmin: not really, maemo is not the n810 Oct 17 22:04:56 doh! Oct 17 22:04:59 kirma: vmware ported vmware to the n800 Oct 17 22:05:01 so ... Oct 17 22:05:02 reading_comprehension -= 1 Oct 17 22:05:37 mgedmin: as penance you can try my zenity problem :) Oct 17 22:05:43 zenity is in extras-devel Oct 17 22:05:52 just try a simple zenity dialog and you'll see the problem Oct 17 22:06:06 timeless_mbp: I must admit I'm sort of interested on virtualisation on smartphones, but not really to run multiple different-vendor OSes :) Oct 17 22:06:19 timeless_mbp, what's wrong with it? it seems to work ok on mer ... Oct 17 22:06:29 johnx: on my n900 it's system modal Oct 17 22:06:32 e.g. zenity --warning Oct 17 22:06:34 is it just opening the android source and converting it to pyton? Oct 17 22:06:48 yuck, zenity --info --text "hello" Oct 17 22:06:52 lol Oct 17 22:07:07 total hig violation, I assume Oct 17 22:07:10 timeless_mbp, still not getting the problem? Oct 17 22:07:11 kirma: as I've usually said, you can port windows ce. Oct 17 22:07:19 that you can't click anything else until it goes away? Oct 17 22:07:22 they give you a 120ish trial for doing so. Oct 17 22:07:23 yep Oct 17 22:07:33 is that really a problem? Oct 17 22:07:36 yep Oct 17 22:07:40 johnx: if I happen to have windows ce sources around, I bet I can :) Oct 17 22:07:42 it pisses off users Oct 17 22:07:43 lots of things are system modal, right? Oct 17 22:07:49 no Oct 17 22:07:52 lots of annoying dialogs are Oct 17 22:07:54 few things I've noticed Oct 17 22:07:56 kurtan, huh? Oct 17 22:08:09 kirma: that's what I mean, you can get windows ce sources. Oct 17 22:08:10 timeless_mbp, s/lots/all/ Oct 17 22:08:12 crash-reporter is modal Oct 17 22:08:31 timeless_mbp: my *wild guess* is that the dialog is not transient to any application window Oct 17 22:08:32 * kurtan slaps johnx for hilight Oct 17 22:08:40 therefore if you switch away from it, there'll be no way of going back Oct 17 22:08:40 does /dev/dsp exist on maemo? Oct 17 22:08:46 crashanddie_: not to my knowledge Oct 17 22:08:53 ls: /dev/dsp: No such file or directory Oct 17 22:08:54 mgedmin, damn Oct 17 22:09:06 kurtan, eep. sorry Oct 17 22:09:10 mgedmin, just did a cat /dev/random > /dev/dsp to see what would happen Oct 17 22:09:26 johnx, ok, move along Oct 17 22:09:28 anyway, I feel that people switching whole OSes from smartphone(ish) devices to something completely different have way too much time for their hobbies. Oct 17 22:09:30 as root? you'd get a new file full of random data Oct 17 22:09:34 crashanddie_, you could use padsp Oct 17 22:09:38 until the filesystem filled up Oct 17 22:09:39 johnx, which does? Oct 17 22:09:39 mgedmin: right, sorry Oct 17 22:09:47 mgedmin, well, yeah, I figured that... now Oct 17 22:10:02 crashanddie_, wraps your program and takes what it tries to output to /dev/dsp and outputs it via pulseaudio Oct 17 22:10:14 might work ok if you're not too sensitive to latency Oct 17 22:10:41 kirma: i think installing linux on weird hardware is a good hobby Oct 17 22:10:58 johnx, oh, so something like padsp ./whatever.py? Oct 17 22:11:40 cosmo: welll, yes. but installing it on hardware where 95% of original intended functionality becomes unreachable as result is mostly just waste of time :) Oct 17 22:12:09 kirma: usually you CAN at least ping localhost Oct 17 22:12:20 timeless_mbp: "Another detail to take care of is that GtkDialogs can work in two modalities in a Hildon application: task-model or system-model. A dialog is task-modal if it is transient for the main window." Oct 17 22:12:29 yep, that's the thing why we have all those gadgets :) Oct 17 22:12:38 -- http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Graphical_UI_Tutorial/Windows_and_dialogs#Using_GtkDialogs_in_Hildon_applications Oct 17 22:12:44 well, there are some success hacks like ipaq linux, some digital camera linuxes, openwrt, etc Oct 17 22:13:11 mgedmin: ok, so how does one hack zenity to enable it to satisfy hildon's insane behavior? Oct 17 22:13:13 my wild guess was right Oct 17 22:13:16 cosmo: android on htc :) Oct 17 22:13:30 can we make a fully transparent main window? :) Oct 17 22:13:32 johnx, /usr/bin/padsp: line 74: getopts: not found Oct 17 22:13:40 timeless_mbp: what's your use case? displaying a notification from a postinst script or something? Oct 17 22:13:48 mgedmin: writing apps in perl Oct 17 22:13:48 I had ipaq back when their linux port was announced and played with it (including external wlan thingie)... not very useful, but still, someone stole it from my work desk. could have skipped at least that... Oct 17 22:14:04 timeless_mbp: why not use perl's gtk bindings? Oct 17 22:14:18 because i don't like gtk :) Oct 17 22:14:29 i don't want to learn it Oct 17 22:14:45 /dev/dsp is oss, isn't it? Oct 17 22:14:49 i just want to say "i need an X" Oct 17 22:14:55 that's deprecated Oct 17 22:14:55 hmm Oct 17 22:14:57 felipec hm no alsa too Oct 17 22:15:25 do you have a reasonable application main window? Oct 17 22:15:29 no Oct 17 22:15:33 hmm Oct 17 22:15:36 i only have a series of dialogs Oct 17 22:15:42 do you run your app from an xterm then? Oct 17 22:15:43 woglinde: only when there's OSS emulation Oct 17 22:15:48 hm Oct 17 22:15:51 no Oct 17 22:15:58 it gets launched from the More... menu Oct 17 22:15:59 hows alsa than working Oct 17 22:16:04 hm Oct 17 22:16:17 seems my knowledge is limited Oct 17 22:16:27 woglinde: alsa-lib? Oct 17 22:16:45 I think you'd need to hack up WINDOW_ID=`zenity --main-window`; zenity --warning --text "..." --transient-for $WINDOW_ID Oct 17 22:16:49 I'm not sure about '/dev/dsp' being OSS... just guessing Oct 17 22:16:49 woglinde: /dev/snd/* Oct 17 22:16:53 or something like that Oct 17 22:17:16 sounds like more work than learning to use gtk from perl... Oct 17 22:17:25 or getting someone to rewrite your app in python Oct 17 22:24:58 timeless_mbp: do you have a source repository for translations-enus1? Oct 17 22:25:10 i'm not currently sharing it Oct 17 22:25:24 the mo's aren't really interesting Oct 17 22:25:40 you can use dpkg-deb to extract the interesting bits Oct 17 22:26:41 ah, ok Oct 17 22:28:07 any n810 users on? Oct 17 22:28:41 andril I have one Oct 17 22:28:43 * mgedmin is Oct 17 22:29:07 johnx, nice idea, sadly libpulsedsp.so doesn't exist on maemo Oct 17 22:30:02 woglinde: what os are you running? and what have you tried? Oct 17 22:30:10 2008 latest Oct 17 22:30:19 I tried no other Oct 17 22:30:32 crashanddie_, and pulse-dsp isn't quite working on mer yet, so I can't even plug that ;) Oct 17 22:31:08 ok cool - got issues with my gps -wish google maps was for 0s2008 Oct 17 22:32:08 ? Oct 17 22:32:13 hm? Oct 17 22:32:20 navit is working with osm maps Oct 17 22:32:40 Navit is good - huh Oct 17 22:32:58 maemo-mapper ftw Oct 17 22:33:03 i'll give it a try now Oct 17 22:33:27 do they do directions? Oct 17 22:34:52 navit should do offline directions Oct 17 22:35:00 maemo-mapper requires a web connection Oct 17 22:35:41 lardman|afk: thanks Oct 17 22:36:18 np Oct 17 22:36:35 mah Oct 17 22:36:43 too tired for writing code Oct 17 22:36:48 can't focus Oct 17 22:36:50 maemo-mapper is good though, Navit can be a bit hit and miss, but fingers crossed it improves, etc Oct 17 22:36:52 * crashanddie_ goes to ride his bike Oct 17 22:37:09 * lardman worries about bike riding when not able to focus.... Oct 17 22:37:34 lardman, no worries, just going down in the woods, no cars or anything Oct 17 22:37:39 i just want my gps back the wayfinder is off alot and the fee doesnt help Oct 17 22:37:50 hmm, trees... they don't have lights at night either ;) Oct 17 22:38:00 lardman, nope, but I do Oct 17 22:38:07 all good, have fun! Oct 17 22:38:25 lardman, http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/tags/bike/ Oct 17 22:39:26 lots of bits of a bike, but no complete bike! ;) Oct 17 22:40:26 motorbike? or push bike? Oct 17 22:40:33 and at 23:20? Oct 17 22:40:59 push Oct 17 22:41:01 lardman, http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Q4mpChuwTFg/ShLHMzkPyPI/AAAAAAAACF4/Fg5yKBYs25g/s1600-h/imgp0069.jpg Oct 17 22:41:46 a few things have changed since then Oct 17 22:42:22 I know nothing much about bikes, but it's not carbon anyway Oct 17 22:42:45 but looks very nice Oct 17 22:43:39 nice looking bike Oct 17 22:44:07 nice wheels Oct 17 22:44:20 the big picture has the old tyres Oct 17 22:44:25 good camera aslo Oct 17 22:44:50 now I've got the shiny grippy funky igniters! Oct 17 22:44:53 Andril, n900 Oct 17 22:45:20 ahhh man Oct 17 22:46:55 got navit installed but it just sits in Minchen Oct 17 22:47:20 you have to load maps for it Oct 17 22:47:22 manually Oct 17 22:47:31 i.e. download them and install them Oct 17 22:47:49 take a look on TMO, should be a thread explaining it somewhere, otherwise on the OSM website iirc Oct 17 22:47:55 got a link? Oct 17 22:48:03 Andril: are you online? have you installed agps? it helps get faster gps fix times Oct 17 22:48:17 otherwise you may have to wait 6 minutes outside until the gps figures out where it is Oct 17 22:48:31 and I think a fresh fix in a new continent may take up to 20 minutes or so Oct 17 22:48:44 getting it now Oct 17 22:48:52 since it has to download almanac data from the satellites at their broadcast rate of 1.5 bits per second or something Oct 17 22:49:33 * mgedmin finally figures out that zenity --hildon probably means old hildon, not maemo 5 hildon Oct 17 22:49:47 and that's why I perceive no visual difference between zenity and zenity --hildon Oct 17 22:51:06 It really doesn't mean much. Some changes to some of the stuff it provides (like the file chooser) to use the equivalent Hildon widget. Oct 17 22:51:31 hmm, am having trouble capturing output to a file, should "./foo &> bar.txt" work always? Oct 17 22:51:54 does &> work in ash? Oct 17 22:52:06 mgedmin, if only the gps on the n810 was able to use ephemeris data properly Oct 17 22:52:14 ./foo 1> stdout 2> stderr Oct 17 22:52:46 googleapps is a much needed port Oct 17 22:52:58 johnx: seems not Oct 17 22:53:08 johnx: simple > did the trick thankfully Oct 17 22:53:15 dunno about properly; in the end I gave up on the gps completely and just use maemo-mapper as an offline map viewer Oct 17 22:53:19 Jaffa, you never used python to output sound on the n900? Oct 17 22:53:19 keeping my position manually up to date from time to time Oct 17 22:55:07 Jaffa, haha, you've been favourited: http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4000512697/in/photostream/ Oct 17 22:58:52 so anyway, is anyone working on the IR thingy on the n900? Oct 17 23:00:01 * mgedmin installed irreco and gave up after 10 minutes of the incomprehensible user interface Oct 17 23:02:55 crashanddie_: he is probably sleeping ... hehe (just a guess) Oct 17 23:03:03 ( Jaffa , I mean) Oct 17 23:05:32 is there a page somewhere about using debian helper? Oct 17 23:06:43 or even, is there a command to run autotools and then the configure script? Oct 17 23:07:27 Have you tried just running dh-make in the top of your project directory and seeing what happens? Oct 17 23:07:33 lardman: If you find one, let me know. Oct 17 23:07:45 yeah just done that and it's generated a rules file that I need to tweak Oct 17 23:07:52 derf: :) Oct 17 23:08:05 That actually applies to either of those things. Oct 17 23:08:43 I guess copying an existing non cdbs rules file is the way forward Oct 17 23:08:45 lardman: you have a configure.ac already, "autoreconf -f -i" will probably do the work to you (but it will not run ./configure, you will need to do that) Oct 17 23:08:47 in that rules file I think you can just check out the configure section and put in the lines you need Oct 17 23:09:16 lizardo: but does debian helper do that for me with some dh_ command, or do I have to explicitly add that in the proper section of rules? Oct 17 23:09:18 ah, didn't get that you were looking for the autotools commands, not where to put them in a debian package Oct 17 23:09:33 ah, picture is getting clearer :) Oct 17 23:09:54 or murkier depending on how you see Debianisation ;) Oct 17 23:10:09 Debianisation works like everything else. Oct 17 23:10:14 You find a working package and you copy it. Oct 17 23:10:16 lardman: debhelper does not run autotools for you , you need to do that manually on debian/rules... Oct 17 23:10:25 lizardo: ok, thanks Oct 17 23:10:37 derf: indeed, will do that tomorrow Oct 17 23:10:45 time to hit the sack now, night chaps Oct 17 23:10:51 'night lardman Oct 17 23:36:14 can anyone help me with this? - i´m trying to add a single-column selector to a control panel applet for Maemo5 - and i can´t seem to find a way to apply the selector :( Oct 17 23:37:13 what i´m trying to accomplish is this: http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4398&stc=1&d=1255782215 Oct 17 23:37:46 (in a control panel applet) Oct 17 23:37:56 awesum, one remote for sound and tv Oct 17 23:40:07 ...can anyone help? Oct 17 23:40:59 b-man17, ... in gtk? Oct 17 23:41:10 yes Oct 17 23:41:21 vbox and hboxes don't work? Oct 17 23:42:33 * b-man17 isn´t shure - i´ve just started using gtk Oct 17 23:43:08 crashanddie_: you have success with irreco? Oct 17 23:43:18 yup Oct 17 23:43:53 good for you Oct 18 01:24:16 hey, how can i download in sb2 the kernel headers of maemo? Oct 18 01:34:23 apt-get Oct 18 01:42:41 has anyone done a package of libode? Oct 18 02:12:28 hi good people Oct 18 02:13:09 i just found that the local bar is full of ugly people Oct 18 02:13:55 You just haven't had enough to drink yet. Oct 18 02:14:02 the world is full of ugly people, the few good looking ones ends up working fashion and entertainment... Oct 18 02:14:33 still, looks are not everything. the mind is what counts in the long run... Oct 18 02:14:58 i was thinkign more of good hearts Oct 18 02:15:12 just not the plce to go Oct 18 02:15:54 heh, heart, mind, much the same in my book... Oct 18 02:16:00 right Oct 18 02:16:29 i am suffering post-summit letdownw Oct 18 02:16:51 you meet the best peope Oct 18 02:17:02 and then its like damn... Oct 18 02:17:06 they were the best Oct 18 02:19:54 experiences like that can make one wish one could work at some think tank, or maybe a university electronics/computers lab... Oct 18 02:21:04 well ill be, creative have made pc speakers with bluetooth... Oct 18 02:22:44 and aux in as well, heh, i could use this as generic music speakers ;) Oct 18 02:35:22 t_s_o: well i've not known you to say stupid things here. i hope good things in store for you Oct 18 02:35:44 thanks Oct 18 02:36:52 see here's my thing. i really think nokia's maemo can change the future for the beter Oct 18 02:36:56 better Oct 18 02:37:18 * lcuk raises a glass to that Oct 18 02:37:25 because centralized control is evil and that goes into politics Oct 18 02:37:33 but a lot of us are here because of politics too Oct 18 02:37:47 different politics Oct 18 02:37:50 cheers lcuk Oct 18 02:38:03 i am scared of the pentagon Oct 18 02:38:15 i was always nervous around triangles Oct 18 02:39:07 why worry about the pentagon tho Oct 18 02:39:13 they are half a world away Oct 18 02:39:19 you and I are nervous people Oct 18 02:39:31 different reasons and focus Oct 18 02:39:39 :) Oct 18 02:39:50 i am going to listen to tonights antiwar radio Oct 18 02:40:12 do you think theres a daily proware radio? Oct 18 02:40:18 not that i would listen Oct 18 02:40:19 yes Oct 18 02:40:22 yikes Oct 18 02:40:31 msnbc, etc Oct 18 02:41:11 i have a bit of a problem with this bombing people stuff because my parents got bombed into rubble Oct 18 02:41:42 dug out of ruins as children Oct 18 02:42:25 lcuk: you know pentagon just exceeded all recruitment targets? Oct 18 02:42:28 i have a problem with it too, but thankfully never come close enough to know Oct 18 02:42:33 good! Oct 18 02:42:36 theres a jobs crisis Oct 18 02:42:39 right Oct 18 02:42:43 pupnik_: And my dad worked at the Pentagon :). Oct 18 02:42:45 but nott good Oct 18 02:43:06 that organization produces few useful products Oct 18 02:43:10 a mobile army of men able to perform any duty commanded could actually be used for the best in the world Oct 18 02:43:20 its a shame their time is wasted Oct 18 02:43:51 for instance, the damned russian army would have the best uniforms and most stylish tanks Oct 18 02:44:01 if only they would let wazd do what his heart tells him Oct 18 02:44:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket Oct 18 02:45:23 funny, i had a much higher karma then expected... Oct 18 02:46:58 never trust government Oct 18 02:47:59 then who sould one trust? big international corps? Oct 18 02:48:37 Neither Oct 18 02:48:54 better load that shotgun then i guess... Oct 18 02:49:25 Good plan. ;) Oct 18 02:50:10 big internatinal corps cant put a gun to your head Oct 18 02:50:14 government does, every day Oct 18 02:51:39 heh, often at big corps say so, i fear... Oct 18 02:55:02 bah, i find myself having a hard time coming up with usage scenarios for AR, that a overhead map could not do just as well. unless one have some kind of object recognition going... Oct 18 02:55:53 For a tablet it's probably better to use artificial markers. Oct 18 02:55:58 automatic translation of signs etc? Oct 18 02:56:55 ali1234: the thing i would do there is a barcode and some corner marks so that the device can look up a fitting overlay online. much quick and reliable then a OCR... Oct 18 02:57:08 that's still AR Oct 18 02:57:32 http://studierstube.icg.tu-graz.ac.at/handheld_ar/artoolkitplus.php Oct 18 02:57:58 true, but needs infrastructure changes to really be effective (replacing signs and setting up servers for translations) Oct 18 02:59:37 on that note, i really hope that AR moves into a kind of always on scenario, where one have glasses or similar in use, rather then waving ones phone around all the time... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 18 02:59:57 2009