**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 18 02:59:57 2009
Oct 18 03:00:35 <pupnik_> nokia n900 could recognize foreign signs
Oct 18 03:00:49 <pupnik_> needs investors, ovi/appstoree
Oct 18 03:02:41 <SpeedEvil> Or product placement.
Oct 18 03:02:44 <SpeedEvil> ovipositor
Oct 18 03:05:17 <zerojay> anyone know how media player works?
Oct 18 03:05:24 <zerojay> I'd like to get some chiptunes going. ;)
Oct 18 03:07:09 <lcuk> balls
Oct 18 03:07:21 <lcuk> i get presentation time down under 10 mins
Oct 18 03:07:28 <lcuk> and then camera craps out at 830
Oct 18 03:11:07 <pupnik_> yo dudes
Oct 18 03:11:20 <pupnik_> how does it feel to be involved with the greatest thing in the world
Oct 18 03:11:55 <pupnik_> freeing handhelds from evil control iss a really good raison d;etre
Oct 18 03:12:36 <pupnik_> am i the only person here who feels charged with a mission from god|
Oct 18 03:13:37 <t_s_o> i cant help wonder, will a carrier locked maemo 6 running device void the GPL3 license?
Oct 18 03:14:18 <luke-jr> no
Oct 18 03:14:23 <luke-jr> the lock is probably in the phone
Oct 18 03:15:18 <Texrat> hello
Oct 18 03:15:45 <zerojay> hi
Oct 18 03:15:55 <Texrat> ah, there is life!
Oct 18 03:16:01 <luke-jr> O HAI THAR
Oct 18 03:16:03 <t_s_o> luke-jr: it was just that i got the impression from the slides that a carrier locked maemo 6 would refuse to boot a non-signed setup
Oct 18 03:16:23 <t_s_o> life there is, but i am not sure on quality or kind...
Oct 18 03:16:36 <luke-jr> t_s_o: then it would void the GPL 2 as well
Oct 18 03:16:41 <Texrat> looks like someone removed the reference to the web irc page on the maemo wiki
Oct 18 03:16:43 <luke-jr> but Nokia did that with the N810 anyway
Oct 18 03:16:50 <luke-jr> so they probably don't care
Oct 18 03:17:41 <t_s_o> meh, of to bed, have fun people
Oct 18 03:20:06 <pupnik_> Texrat: hy
Oct 18 03:20:13 <Texrat> hey Arnim
Oct 18 03:20:24 <Texrat> you worried me by disappearing
Oct 18 03:20:32 <Texrat> lol
Oct 18 03:20:43 <Texrat> hey I'm equally sorry for talking your poor ear off
Oct 18 03:20:56 <Texrat> just got so fired up by the event
Oct 18 03:21:08 <Texrat> sure
Oct 18 03:21:35 <Texrat> cool, can't wait to see them
Oct 18 03:22:05 <Texrat> lol... not the reaction I expected from my blabbering
Oct 18 03:22:14 <pupnik_> Texrat: pm
Oct 18 03:22:15 <Texrat> I get carried away
Oct 18 03:22:56 <pupnik_> do you see the message i sent you|
Oct 18 03:23:02 <Texrat> hey Arnim I'm working on a song inspired by the trip
Oct 18 03:23:10 <Texrat> pupnik_:no not yet
Oct 18 03:23:29 <pupnik_> hmm i send you another private message
Oct 18 03:23:36 <pupnik_> try to respond on the private channel
Oct 18 03:24:43 <lcuk> 10:01
Oct 18 03:24:47 <lcuk> will youtube accept it
Oct 18 03:25:38 <lcuk> hi tekonivel
Oct 18 03:25:42 <lcuk> hi Texrat even
Oct 18 03:25:58 <Texrat> hey gary
Oct 18 03:26:07 <lcuk> o_O i am a named person
Oct 18 03:26:30 * lcuk is not running over presentation again, how can i shave 1 second off it
Oct 18 03:26:31 <Texrat> ...
Oct 18 03:26:48 <lcuk> :D
Oct 18 03:27:41 <GAN900> Texrat, web irc is evil.
Oct 18 03:27:59 <Texrat> gan900: I'm lazy
Oct 18 03:28:13 <lcuk> Texrat, not lazy, just focused
Oct 18 03:28:26 <GAN900> You should see the characters the web client on beagleboard.org drags in there.
Oct 18 03:28:40 <Texrat> ha!  thanks el cock but I'm allergic to focus
Oct 18 03:29:15 <lcuk> damnation i cant have youtube rejecting me again
Oct 18 03:29:19 <lcuk> GAN900, how do i get rid
Oct 18 03:29:26 <lcuk> we need live editing (from the cocreation)
Oct 18 03:29:27 <GAN900> Of?
Oct 18 03:29:32 <lcuk> a video
Oct 18 03:29:35 <lcuk> its 10:01 long
Oct 18 03:29:46 <GAN900> Delete it from My Videos
Oct 18 03:29:50 <lcuk> and youtube already rejected one 15min vid of mine today - cos it was over 10mins
Oct 18 03:29:59 <lcuk> i dont want to delete it
Oct 18 03:30:05 <lcuk> i want to upload a new one to youtube
Oct 18 03:30:05 <GAN900> Dropdown under the account link in the top right.
Oct 18 03:30:09 <lcuk> but it ran over a tiny bit
Oct 18 03:30:21 <GAN900> Oh, dunno.
Oct 18 03:31:16 * lcuk decides which end to cut - the silence at the start, or the thank you at the end
Oct 18 03:34:01 <lcuk> virtualdub!
Oct 18 03:35:10 <lcuk> Texrat, wheres the song then?
Oct 18 03:35:26 <Texrat> in process el cock
Oct 18 03:36:57 <Texrat> lcuk what do you actually mean?  were you expecting it to be finished already?
Oct 18 03:37:35 <lcuk> no but i half spotted it in the recent posts list a few hours ago
Oct 18 03:37:40 <lcuk> but i didnt have time to read the thread
Oct 18 03:37:49 <lcuk> by the sounds of the comments i did hit, there was something
Oct 18 03:38:05 <Texrat> http://www.maemo-daemons.org/Raining%20in%20Amsterdam.wma
Oct 18 03:38:10 <Texrat> there you go lcuk
Oct 18 03:38:32 <Texrat> have not got to the vocal stuff yet
Oct 18 03:45:02 <GAN900> wma
Oct 18 03:45:02 <GAN900> Texrat, that's worse than my .movs
Oct 18 03:45:55 <Texrat> gan900, it's compact
Oct 18 03:46:27 <Texrat> and I'm unable to get good MP3s
Oct 18 03:47:28 <GAN900> It's eeeeviiiiil
Oct 18 03:47:50 <Texrat> yeah yeah
Oct 18 03:47:55 <Texrat> but it works
Oct 18 03:48:24 <Texrat> got it in ogg too if that helps :D
Oct 18 03:48:44 <Texrat> but my N900 refuses to play ogg files even with the ogg-support installed
Oct 18 03:57:01 <ali1234> accelerometer + physics sim + handheld device = fun
Oct 18 04:08:20 <lcuk> ali1234, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0
Oct 18 04:08:26 <lcuk> gahhhhhhh
Oct 18 04:08:32 <lcuk> now the damned batteries are dying
Oct 18 04:08:53 <lcuk> Texrat, o_O you do the guitar yourself
Oct 18 04:10:24 <ali1234> wont play for some reason :(
Oct 18 04:10:42 <lcuk> its youtube !
Oct 18 04:10:45 <lcuk> does any youtube play
Oct 18 04:11:22 <ali1234> yeah :/
Oct 18 04:11:40 <Texrat> lcuk all instruments in the song are virtual or sampled
Oct 18 04:11:59 <lcuk> Texrat, nice
Oct 18 04:12:10 <lcuk> you need to use n900 as midi controller ;)
Oct 18 04:12:11 <Texrat> I love Band in a Box : )
Oct 18 04:12:18 <lcuk> accelereometer based air guitar ;)
Oct 18 04:12:23 <Texrat> ooo ya
Oct 18 04:12:23 <lcuk> bah!
Oct 18 04:12:40 <lcuk> i keep pondering using the calendar to strum
Oct 18 04:12:49 <lcuk> using the columns as the notes
Oct 18 04:12:52 <Texrat> actually the N900 would work great as rainstick or maracas emulator
Oct 18 04:12:57 <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/dice.tar
Oct 18 04:12:58 <lcuk> haha yeah
Oct 18 04:13:31 <lcuk> ali1234, sorry, not installing random binaries from unknown person
Oct 18 04:13:39 <ali1234> suit yourself :)
Oct 18 04:13:41 <Texrat> lol
Oct 18 04:14:04 <Texrat> I got your binaries lcuk
Oct 18 04:14:14 <lcuk> those come from maemo.org :)
Oct 18 04:14:46 <lcuk> or did i use the buffer overflow exploit again?
Oct 18 04:16:47 <Texrat> ah that slide guitar does sound righteous
Oct 18 04:16:54 <Texrat> makes me drift
Oct 18 04:17:05 <lcuk> hah
Oct 18 04:17:23 <Texrat> can't wait to get some vocals in
Oct 18 04:17:39 <lcuk> yeah the backing track sound cool
Oct 18 04:17:42 <Texrat> added hand claps to a few spots for punctuation
Oct 18 04:17:55 <lcuk> we need collaborative singsong
Oct 18 04:18:01 <Texrat> absolutely
Oct 18 04:18:13 <Texrat> a whole album after next summit
Oct 18 04:18:16 <lcuk> i so wanted the presentation to work at the summit
Oct 18 04:18:25 <Texrat> sorry man
Oct 18 04:18:31 <lcuk> the cocreation stuff was related to this kind of thing
Oct 18 04:18:39 <Texrat> yeah I saw the synergy
Oct 18 04:18:43 * lcuk hates computers and technology
Oct 18 04:18:50 <Texrat> you gonna incorporate my idea?
Oct 18 04:19:03 <lcuk> its been in mind for ages and ages
Oct 18 04:19:14 <Texrat> oh crap then not my idea
Oct 18 04:19:16 <Texrat> lol
Oct 18 04:19:34 <Texrat> hey proximity = not only intensity but also magnetism
Oct 18 04:19:50 <Texrat> so one device nabs content from another in passing
Oct 18 04:19:53 <lcuk> first revision of the library has a slot ready for "jagernotes" which are going to be recordings of boxar
Oct 18 04:20:09 <lcuk> everything sketched on the screen records x,y,pressure+time
Oct 18 04:20:15 <lcuk> so can theoretically be played back
Oct 18 04:20:20 <Texrat> and physics!
Oct 18 04:20:25 <lcuk> plug in different backends and any instrument is possible
Oct 18 04:20:48 <lcuk> i dont like contagious like that
Oct 18 04:20:50 <lcuk> thats bad
Oct 18 04:20:54 <Texrat> lol
Oct 18 04:20:58 <lcuk> but if i enter a room with wifi
Oct 18 04:21:20 <lcuk> and on the wifi there is a presentation/meeting/lesson/jammingsession in progress
Oct 18 04:21:25 <lcuk> i should be able to join it
Oct 18 04:21:30 <Texrat> sure
Oct 18 04:21:42 <lcuk> once im joined the data is collaborative
Oct 18 04:21:47 <lcuk> so when im making notes it works
Oct 18 04:21:48 <Texrat> current bug: wifi does not always automatically reconnect
Oct 18 04:21:57 <lcuk> not a big deal
Oct 18 04:21:59 <Texrat> experienced at event
Oct 18 04:22:14 <lcuk> but everyone currently walks somewhere and treats wifi like lifeblood itself
Oct 18 04:22:19 <lcuk> "omg i need a connection"
Oct 18 04:22:23 <Texrat> lol
Oct 18 04:22:26 <Texrat> a fix!
Oct 18 04:22:30 <lcuk> so we humans tend to fix it
Oct 18 04:22:43 * lcuk was offline for the entire weekend
Oct 18 04:22:45 <Texrat> wifi is more like clots than blood
Oct 18 04:22:52 <lcuk> nahhh thats the cloud
Oct 18 04:22:56 <Texrat> lol
Oct 18 04:23:01 <lcuk> fails more than it ever seems to work
Oct 18 04:23:14 <Texrat> clouds are siloed
Oct 18 04:23:22 <lcuk> there are so many places on earth with no remote networking
Oct 18 04:23:22 <Texrat> no uber cloud
Oct 18 04:23:26 <Texrat> sure
Oct 18 04:23:27 <lcuk> its like gps
Oct 18 04:23:33 <lcuk> meant to be the perfect location
Oct 18 04:23:41 <lcuk> but it fails when you need it - inside with friends
Oct 18 04:23:50 <Texrat> does N900 gps detect height?
Oct 18 04:24:05 <lcuk> natural element of gps i would assume
Oct 18 04:24:16 <Texrat> wonder how fine it can get
Oct 18 04:24:28 <Texrat> feet? meters?  miles?
Oct 18 04:24:32 <lcuk> same res as elsewhere?
Oct 18 04:24:42 * Texrat shrugs
Oct 18 04:24:52 <lcuk> but it still fails - i want to just create an adhoc wifi network deep inside a cave
Oct 18 04:24:58 <lcuk> and let people who visit the cave
Oct 18 04:24:59 <Texrat> another element to explore for you
Oct 18 04:25:01 <lcuk> draw on the graffiti wall
Oct 18 04:25:33 <lcuk> gps doesnt bother me - its too global and not actually useful when i need it
Oct 18 04:26:38 <lcuk> damn damn damn
Oct 18 04:26:42 <lcuk> where can i get batteries from
Oct 18 04:26:46 <lcuk> at this late hour
Oct 18 04:41:45 <Texrat> eh, off to bed for an hour gang
Oct 18 04:41:54 <Texrat> got a meeting coming up, sigh
Oct 18 05:09:48 <pupnik_> http://pupnik.de/arbeiten.gif
Oct 18 05:50:03 <RST38h> moo all
Oct 18 06:37:09 <Xisdibik> qwerty12_N810: you awake?
Oct 18 06:44:09 <Stskeeps> morn
Oct 18 06:47:54 <pupnik_> mo
Oct 18 07:05:23 <DHR> I'm looking for the "less" program for my n800.  "more" comes with busybox, but I don't know where to find "less".  There is a manpage: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/less/
Oct 18 07:05:59 <Stskeeps> apt-get install less? :P
Oct 18 07:17:43 <DHR> Stskeeps: I tried that but there seems to be no "less" in the repositories known to my apt-get (tableteer, maemo, and gizmoproject).  Any other thoughts?
Oct 18 07:21:26 <Stskeeps> DHR: extras? dunno
Oct 18 07:23:28 <snokat>   http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733
Oct 18 07:23:33 <snokat>     http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733
Oct 18 07:23:38 <snokat>     http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733    http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733
Oct 18 07:26:45 <Meizirkki> how many opened that URL?
Oct 18 07:27:32 <daurnimator> hopefully none
Oct 18 07:28:06 <Patina> hopefully someone punched snokat in the face.
Oct 18 07:31:03 <DHR> I've found less here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/l/less/.  Is there a repository that would get this for me?  In other words, something that would let apt-get find this?
Oct 18 07:38:54 <timeless> string testers, why haven@'t you complained that my app name and control panel name don't match? :(
Oct 18 07:39:19 <timeless> dhr; are you using diablo?
Oct 18 07:45:53 <timeless> it's in dikablo extras-devel
Oct 18 07:46:10 <timeless> according to http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php
Oct 18 08:09:09 <Corsac> Khertan: still not around?
Oct 18 08:09:25 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Oct 18 08:09:35 <Stskeeps> morning jaffa
Oct 18 08:11:03 <lbt> hi Jaffa
Oct 18 08:25:22 * lbt not an iphone user - but can you use an iphone with fingernails?
Oct 18 08:27:05 <frankS2> yes
Oct 18 08:29:22 <lcuk> not in my experience
Oct 18 08:29:40 <lcuk> mornin lbt
Oct 18 08:31:54 <lbt> o/
Oct 18 08:33:01 <lbt> just wondering as Imrs lbt has long fingernails and I notice she tends to use them in preference to fingers... just a thought from the 'girl' PoV
Oct 18 08:33:21 <lbt> although the keyboard is unusable for her :(
Oct 18 08:33:38 <jaska> iphone with fingernails? no go
Oct 18 08:33:51 <jaska> ive tried using a friends one...
Oct 18 08:33:59 <Jaffa> Yes! Hermes has now matched "Valerio Valerio" and VDVsx's properly accented Facebook account :)
Oct 18 08:34:31 <lcuk> yes jaffa!
Oct 18 08:34:32 <Stskeeps> i forget, does the accents differ in firstname and surname? ;)
Oct 18 08:34:35 <jaska> heavy metal umlauts?
Oct 18 08:34:44 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: No, both e-acute
Oct 18 08:35:26 <lbt> Valério Valério?
Oct 18 08:35:44 <Stskeeps> hm, n900 has actually made me actually use my thumbs in the right way on tablets
Oct 18 08:36:37 * lbt thinks he should change his name to Valério Valèrio .... maybe watching too much Mr Monk?
Oct 18 08:40:25 <lcuk> ahhh finally got youtube to accept a video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo
Oct 18 08:40:42 <lcuk> liqbase presentation - using liqbase presentation pager :)
Oct 18 08:40:51 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Opposable thumbs FTW!
Oct 18 08:41:30 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N810: someone should make a panoramic wallpaper of http://i.imgur.com/94WpL.jpg
Oct 18 08:41:41 <Stskeeps> or something :P
Oct 18 08:42:15 <qwerty12_N810> Heh
Oct 18 08:45:17 <Macer> lol
Oct 18 08:48:32 * Stskeeps needs Tear for n900.
Oct 18 08:48:48 <qwerty12_N810> Build it from SVN.
Oct 18 08:48:56 <Stskeeps> i am severely considering that
Oct 18 08:50:06 * Stskeeps should really dig out his extras-devel upload rights and post gnutar
Oct 18 08:58:24 <frals> did the upgrades to the n8x0 ever upgrade the kernel version or was it just other software updates?
Oct 18 08:59:43 <qwerty12_N810> OS2007 -> OS2008 resulted in a kernel update from 2.6.18 to 2.6.21. Apart from that, nothing.
Oct 18 08:59:57 <frals> okey, cheers
Oct 18 09:03:05 <wazd> heya all :)
Oct 18 09:05:40 <Stskeeps> morning wazd
Oct 18 09:17:56 <ivan_> . 0,00
Oct 18 09:18:04 <ivan_> ops
Oct 18 09:22:48 <crashanddie_> I hate how job websites require you to categorise yourself
Oct 18 09:23:32 <crashanddie_> yes, I wouldn't mind doing software development, I also wouldn't mind doing bizdev, nor would I mind product management, or system architect
Oct 18 09:23:46 <crashanddie_> why are those mutually exclusive?
Oct 18 09:23:56 <Lupu> I especially hate the ones that require you to be an IE user for things to work.
Oct 18 09:24:51 <crashanddie_> Lupu, that's usually just a user-agent hack to get around
Oct 18 09:24:58 <crashanddie_> Lupu, and those websites are dying fast, luckily
Oct 18 09:25:15 <Lupu> Unfortunately a certain Maemo-related company has that problem...
Oct 18 09:25:24 <crashanddie_> ORLY?
Oct 18 09:25:27 <crashanddie_> link?
Oct 18 09:25:31 <crashanddie_> or it didn't happen :P
Oct 18 09:25:33 <Lupu> at least my Firefox or girlfriend's Safari can't handle it.
Oct 18 09:26:03 <Lupu> Nokia's job search
Oct 18 09:26:11 <crashanddie_> Nokia's job search works fine lol
Oct 18 09:26:20 <crashanddie_> well, the UI is horrible, but it works
Oct 18 09:26:26 <Lupu> Not for me on FF or my girlfriend on Safari
Oct 18 09:27:20 <crashanddie_> WORKSFORME
Oct 18 09:27:45 <cvandonderen> Hi
Oct 18 09:27:49 <Lupu> Do the jobs it supposedly find really match your search criteria?
Oct 18 09:28:00 <cvandonderen> how can I delete a radio station from the online radio list?
Oct 18 09:28:03 <Lupu> For me it "seemingly" works, but really finds completely undelated stuff
Oct 18 09:28:10 <Lupu> whereas IE gives the correct results
Oct 18 09:30:14 <crashanddie_> Lupu, when's the last time you tried?
Oct 18 09:30:26 <crashanddie_> Lupu, I remember that as well about a year ago, seems to be working fine now
Oct 18 09:30:37 <Lupu> A few weeks ago
Oct 18 09:45:18 <timeless> cvandonderen: i'm not sure you do
Oct 18 09:45:38 <timeless> ah, tap and hold
Oct 18 09:45:41 <cvandonderen> timeless: Yeah, though so, already writing a bug report about that
Oct 18 09:45:42 <timeless> select delete
Oct 18 09:45:48 <cvandonderen> where can I select delete?
Oct 18 09:46:09 <timeless> from the listt view, i get a context menu
Oct 18 09:46:19 <timeless> you're usiong an n900, right?
Oct 18 09:46:22 <cvandonderen> timeless: yes
Oct 18 09:46:39 <cvandonderen> at the top it only gives me: add radio bookmark & FM Transmitter
Oct 18 09:46:44 <timeless> context menu
Oct 18 09:46:48 <timeless> not title menu
Oct 18 09:46:53 <cvandonderen> aah, you need to keep it clicked...
Oct 18 09:47:08 <cvandonderen> not very usable....
Oct 18 09:47:11 <timeless> standard ui metaphor
Oct 18 09:47:14 <cvandonderen> (or at least: easy to find
Oct 18 09:47:23 <timeless> not sure it's covered in the tutorial
Oct 18 09:47:36 <timeless> anyone, is tap+hold covered there?
Oct 18 09:49:05 <timeless> btw, what language are you using?
Oct 18 09:49:14 * timeless is looking for testers
Oct 18 09:49:25 <timeless> oh brother
Oct 18 09:49:26 <timeless> idiots
Oct 18 09:49:52 <timeless> the dialog says "delete file"
Oct 18 09:50:02 <qwerty12_N810> timeless: Actually, why was the spinning icon removed when you tap and hold? Too slow? Nokia make it a point to display an arrow in the titlebar when there is a menu that you can select so I'm wondering why remove the tap and hold icon which, really, serves the same purpose as the blue arrow in the title except for the tap and hold menu
Oct 18 09:50:17 * timeless doesn't usually call radio stations files
Oct 18 09:50:38 <timeless> qwerty: fwiw, the down area in the title was added after week 37 iirc
Oct 18 09:51:13 <qwerty12_N810> Yep, I saw, but I'm more curious about the tap and hold icon :)
Oct 18 09:51:15 <timeless> ie incredibly late when user testing said "that menu isn't discoverasble, duh"
Oct 18 09:51:58 <timeless> the ui team went for bare/clean, so my guess is they removed it because they didn't like it
Oct 18 09:52:15 <qwerty12_N810> Heh :\
Oct 18 09:52:48 * timeless accidentally swipes pgup
Oct 18 10:00:14 <mgedmin> augh! personal-ip-address.c assumes 4-space tabs
Oct 18 10:01:09 <RST38h> well, how is it unusual?
Oct 18 10:01:26 <RST38h> A pass with sed and it is fixed though
Oct 18 10:07:28 <mgedmin> what's the point of g_strdup_printf ("%s", line)?
Oct 18 10:08:15 <RST38h> It strdups.
Oct 18 10:08:48 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: so um
Oct 18 10:08:54 <timeless_mbp> can you look into zenity for a bit?
Oct 18 10:08:59 <mgedmin> so why not g_strdup()?
Oct 18 10:09:05 <timeless_mbp> i need a way to pass --parent-window=xid
Oct 18 10:09:12 <RST38h> No idea, the author was looking for fancier ways
Oct 18 10:09:21 <mgedmin> also, this happens in a loop and reassigns the result to the same variable
Oct 18 10:09:24 <mgedmin> yay memleaks
Oct 18 10:09:31 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: nokia code? :)
Oct 18 10:09:38 <mgedmin> thankfully the loop is over a shell command output which is supposed to return exactly one line
Oct 18 10:09:57 <RST38h> mgedmin: ok, so the guy probably came from Java world
Oct 18 10:10:01 <mgedmin> no, wait, I've overlooked something
Oct 18 10:10:13 <mgedmin> the gchar* is passed to gtk_label_set_text inside the loop
Oct 18 10:10:36 <RST38h> That changes things
Oct 18 10:10:41 <mgedmin> does gtk_label own the reference?
Oct 18 10:11:03 <timeless_mbp> doubtful :)
Oct 18 10:11:25 <mgedmin> things like these are why I program in Python and not C
Oct 18 10:11:27 <mgedmin> hehe if (g_strcasecmp (interface, "") != 0)
Oct 18 10:11:30 <timeless_mbp> i'd expect the available contracts are <share> or <clone>
Oct 18 10:11:41 <timeless_mbp> CASE cmp! wow
Oct 18 10:12:54 * timeless_mbp pokes Lynoure 
Oct 18 10:13:04 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: anyway, can you look into zenity for me? :)
Oct 18 10:13:13 <timeless_mbp> i really need to be able to force a parent window
Oct 18 10:13:20 <wazd> paintball is uber-cool
Oct 18 10:13:35 <RST38h> mgedmin: gtk_label will take ownership and free it afaik
Oct 18 10:13:55 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: Maybe
Oct 18 10:14:05 <mgedmin> then I think we have a double free bug
Oct 18 10:14:08 <crashanddie_> wazd, i used to do competition paintball
Oct 18 10:14:21 <wazd> my legs are covered with bruises but I'm overexcited :)
Oct 18 10:14:21 <RST38h> mgedmin: I would still check with gtk docs on gtk_label though
Oct 18 10:14:28 <RST38h> mgedmin: these apis are a mess
Oct 18 10:14:32 <wazd> crashanddie_: oh, CTF? :)
Oct 18 10:15:08 <mgedmin> devhelp doesn't help much: "Sets the text within the GtkLabel widget. It overwrites any text that was there before."
Oct 18 10:15:11 <wazd> crashanddie_: we were playing simple TvT on different maps
Oct 18 10:15:18 <crashanddie_> wazd, speedball ctf
Oct 18 10:15:27 <wazd> crashanddie_: wow, that's cool :)
Oct 18 10:15:37 <mgedmin> no, I'm certain that gtk_label_set_text doesn't free
Oct 18 10:15:46 <mgedmin> because then ... wait, I take it back
Oct 18 10:15:58 <wazd> The only thing I can complain is dirt. It was super-dirty
Oct 18 10:16:10 <crashanddie_> wazd, suck it up
Oct 18 10:16:20 <crashanddie_> wazd, paintball is expensive and dirty
Oct 18 10:16:36 <wazd> crashanddie_: no, it was like extraordinary dirty :D
Oct 18 10:17:23 <wazd> crashanddie_: Normandy assault looks like jogging on a lawn near it :D
Oct 18 10:17:50 <wazd> crashanddie_: all safe covers were giant puddles
Oct 18 10:18:39 <wazd> hope to play it this winter or next summer
Oct 18 10:22:27 <Lupu> crashanddie_: Seems like you're right, the site is now working for me in FF.
Oct 18 10:29:20 <mgedmin> what's libhildondesktop1-dev?
Oct 18 10:29:43 <mgedmin> something from diablo, or does it exist in fremantle
Oct 18 10:30:25 <mgedmin> I ask because personal-ip-address build-depends on it, and I cannot install it in my scratchbox because of a nonexistent indirect libiphb0 dependency
Oct 18 10:31:10 <Stskeeps> you need to install token repo
Oct 18 10:31:21 <mgedmin> token?
Oct 18 10:32:16 <mgedmin> oh, the nokia-binaries repo is not in my sources.list
Oct 18 10:32:21 <mgedmin> I thought the sdk installer script had added it
Oct 18 10:33:16 <mgedmin> wishlist: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libiphb0/ the repository names could be links to pages with a short description and the 'deb' and 'deb-src' lines
Oct 18 10:34:30 * mgedmin unhappy
Oct 18 10:35:21 <RST38h> this is the least of that interface problems
Oct 18 10:36:22 <chritto> latest liqbase presentation is very cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo
Oct 18 10:36:45 <mgedmin> how do I use a socks5 proxy with apt-get inside scratchbox?
Oct 18 10:37:34 <mgedmin> waaah I want iptables
Oct 18 10:37:35 * mgedmin cries
Oct 18 10:38:04 <RST38h> hm
Oct 18 10:41:31 <mgedmin> the absolute symlinks scratchbox uses are unfriendly
Oct 18 10:43:49 <mgedmin> can somebody please package tsocks for fremantle?
Oct 18 10:45:26 <mgedmin> it's sunday and instead of using the free time for productively working on maemo people are sleeping or having a life offline, wtf?
Oct 18 10:46:10 <frals> or getting ready for the exam week coming up :(
Oct 18 10:48:29 <mgedmin> yay fixed personal-ip-address to work with peer-to-peer 3g links
Oct 18 10:48:41 <timeless_mbp> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/gtk+2.0-2.10.12/gtk/gtklabel.c#1252
Oct 18 10:48:45 <mgedmin> now to send a patch to fiferboy...
Oct 18 10:48:46 <timeless_mbp> 1252 gtk_label_set_text (GtkLabel    *label,
Oct 18 10:48:46 <timeless_mbp> 1253                     const gchar *str)
Oct 18 10:48:50 <timeless_mbp> 1259   gtk_label_set_label_internal (label, g_strdup (str ? str : ""));
Oct 18 10:48:59 <mgedmin> thank you, timeless_mbp!
Oct 18 10:49:05 <timeless_mbp> thanks mxr
Oct 18 10:50:14 <mgedmin> what's fiferboy's email address?
Oct 18 10:50:22 <mgedmin> let's look at debian/copyright ...
Oct 18 10:50:25 <mgedmin> Upstream Author: <put author(s) name and email here>
Oct 18 10:50:27 <mgedmin> awesome
Oct 18 10:50:33 <timeless_mbp> :)
Oct 18 10:50:34 <RST38h> he is shy.
Oct 18 10:51:34 <Stskeeps> mgedmin: proxychains wouldn't be a bad one either
Oct 18 10:51:45 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: mxr is your friend :)
Oct 18 10:51:52 <mgedmin> "This package was debianized by Andrew Olmsted" (email snipped)
Oct 18 10:52:01 <mgedmin> I hope that's him and not a copy & paste from some other package
Oct 18 10:52:10 <mgedmin> Stskeeps: I'm not familiar with proxychains
Oct 18 10:52:23 <timeless_mbp> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/ident is the starting point, http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/ident?i=gtk_label_set_text is the intermediate
Oct 18 10:52:33 <mgedmin> sounds cool
Oct 18 10:52:50 <mgedmin> timeless_mbp: any plans for indexing fremantle?
Oct 18 10:52:56 <RST38h> http://maemo.org/profile/view/fiferboy/
Oct 18 10:53:05 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: yeah, but it requires me to spend time
Oct 18 10:53:10 <timeless_mbp> which keeps running away from me
Oct 18 10:53:47 <mgedmin> d'oh!  personal gprs monitor is in https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Extras but personal ip address isn't
Oct 18 10:57:27 <mgedmin> what's the bzr equivalent of git-format-patch?
Oct 18 10:57:42 <mgedmin> see, I used bzr because I know it better
Oct 18 11:10:14 <timeless_mbp> heh
Oct 18 11:11:54 <mgedmin> ouch, a screw and a washer just fell from under the table my laptop is on
Oct 18 11:12:47 <mgedmin> I don't have an Allen wrench with me
Oct 18 11:24:53 <mgedmin> what's with the disk space?
Oct 18 11:25:13 <mgedmin> is ubifs like jffs: eats up space on every change, then garbage-collects blocks in the background?
Oct 18 11:25:29 <mgedmin> I upgraded a small package (and had 2.7 megs left) and now I have 0
Oct 18 11:26:17 <mgedmin> plus the package is 20.5k
Oct 18 11:26:42 <RST38h> usually it forces you to reboot and then garbage collects on startup :)
Oct 18 11:27:15 <RST38h> See this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450
Oct 18 11:28:58 <mgedmin> don't wanna reboot
Oct 18 11:46:59 <ShadowJK> if you're running the program in question, the old files are still there for sure
Oct 18 11:47:36 <mgedmin> first of all, it's 20 kb, second, when you upgrade a desktop applet it gets automatically reloaded, apparently
Oct 18 11:51:54 <timeless_mbp> yep
Oct 18 11:52:00 <timeless_mbp> which tends to cause crashes IME :)
Oct 18 11:54:44 <v6sa> Hey guys
Oct 18 11:54:49 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: hello
Oct 18 11:54:58 <v6sa> Can anyone point me to right place for Quake 3? :D
Oct 18 11:55:00 <v6sa> on N900
Oct 18 11:55:04 <timeless_mbp> can you figure out what's failing now? :)
Oct 18 11:55:08 <v6sa> I can't find any source of binaries
Oct 18 11:55:17 <v6sa> *source OR binaries
Oct 18 11:56:45 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: Haven't yet tried... But I could give it a shot.
Oct 18 12:00:18 <konttori_> q3 is already in extras-devel
Oct 18 12:00:25 <konttori_> so, the source is there as well v6sa
Oct 18 12:00:40 <konttori_> what isn't there afaik, is opengles1.1
Oct 18 12:02:30 <mgedmin> magic: I did nothing, free space is still 0, but dpkg --configure -a now succeeds
Oct 18 12:02:45 <mgedmin> background garbage collector theory got an argument in its favour
Oct 18 12:03:24 <mgedmin> what's a unix command-line tool to show the f_bfree field of statvfs (df shows f_bavail, i.e. blocks available for non-root)?
Oct 18 12:03:57 <mgedmin> stat -f /
Oct 18 12:04:04 <mgedmin> free: 693
Oct 18 12:04:20 <v6sa> kkonttori_: I did apt-get install ioquake3 and copied q3demo files, I get segfault :S
Oct 18 12:04:33 <mgedmin> and now free: 887
Oct 18 12:05:44 <v6sa> konttori_: I did apt-get install ioquake3 and copied q3demo files, I get segfault :S
Oct 18 12:06:06 <konttori_> do you have the opengl drivers?
Oct 18 12:06:20 <v6sa> yeah QT4 opengl examples work
Oct 18 12:07:10 <konttori_> but those use opengles2.0 afaik
Oct 18 12:07:35 <v6sa> so..? :D
Oct 18 12:09:00 <mgedmin> now free: 786 -- it's shrinking again! wtf?
Oct 18 12:09:54 <mgedmin> okay, I need to go grab some food
Oct 18 12:10:09 <mgedmin> it's past lunchtime and I haven't had breakfast yet
Oct 18 12:10:56 <v6sa> konttori_: what else do I need to install?
Oct 18 12:11:30 <konttori_> v6sa: having not tested that recently, I don't know.
Oct 18 12:21:46 <RST38h> heya zap, konttori
Oct 18 12:21:59 <zap> hi
Oct 18 12:24:27 <wazd> konttori_: hey konttori_
Oct 18 12:24:39 <wazd> konttori_: any new TM version? :)
Oct 18 12:25:28 <konttori_> wazd: just testing it as we speak
Oct 18 12:25:50 <wazd> konttori_: there is a bug in wallpaper parsing
Oct 18 12:26:07 <konttori_> ?
Oct 18 12:26:40 <wazd> konttori_: mediaplayer image looks wrong after parse
Oct 18 12:27:30 <konttori_> ah, you mean it looks squeezed?
Oct 18 12:28:01 <wazd> konttori_: no, unfortunately qwerty12's shots are kinda disappeared so I can't show you
Oct 18 12:28:32 <wazd> konttori_: but it looks like it have top half from one image and bottom half from the other
Oct 18 12:28:49 <konttori_> oh, like that? hmm.. I'll take a look
Oct 18 12:28:54 * RST38h moos at wazd
Oct 18 12:28:59 <wazd> RST38h: heya
Oct 18 12:29:20 <RST38h> probably cut it from somewhere else...
Oct 18 12:29:35 <konttori_> ok, not anymore on the new one
Oct 18 12:30:32 <konttori_> ok, great, now media player, appmanager, clock backgrounds work as they should.
Oct 18 12:31:11 <wazd> konttori_: oh
Oct 18 12:31:23 <wazd> konttori_: the funny thing is that it's not TM's bug
Oct 18 12:31:48 <wazd> konttori_: it was on qwerty12's side, cause I just checked source files and they are ok
Oct 18 12:32:04 <konttori_> yeah, it's related to that the bg size was wrong
Oct 18 12:32:16 <konttori_> it needs to be 800x424. I corrected that now to the new version
Oct 18 12:32:53 <konttori_> anybody know how to get gst support for flv files? (on the device)
Oct 18 12:32:57 <wazd> konttori_: btw, have you added portrait_call.png to the template?
Oct 18 12:33:33 <konttori_> hmm... I can do so now if you want
Oct 18 12:34:03 <wazd> konttori_: well, I think it would be good to be able to change it too :)
Oct 18 12:34:39 <konttori_> yeah
Oct 18 12:35:34 <wazd> konttori_: another question: I've found /usr/share/themes/marina/opera folder. Are you hiding something? :D
Oct 18 12:36:15 <konttori_> ok, added.
Oct 18 12:36:34 <konttori_> opera folder is pure legacy that I just haven't gotten rid of yet
Oct 18 12:36:48 <konttori_> if you take a look at it, it's full of crap only
Oct 18 12:37:05 <konttori_> eh, the opera.zip is the one full of crap.
Oct 18 12:37:14 <konttori_> so, no, no opera in sight
Oct 18 12:39:07 <konttori_> anything else I should add? I would like to add the default avatar images, but I haven't found good default ones for the template
Oct 18 12:40:46 <wazd> konttori_: is rtcom-messaging-ui has aany sense?
Oct 18 12:41:13 <konttori_> I have no clue why that exists
Oct 18 12:42:11 <Stskeeps> rtcom-messaging-ui is the whole IM stuff? :P
Oct 18 12:42:20 <wazd> konttori_: and no color variable for Conversations U
Oct 18 12:42:21 <Stskeeps> (i think)
Oct 18 12:42:27 <wazd> UI background
Oct 18 12:42:43 <wazd> Stskeeps reports that it's white
Oct 18 12:43:03 <RST38h> konttori: do you know that there is a directory named cumulus in the / fs?
Oct 18 12:43:12 <RST38h> and it comes with the clean firmware?
Oct 18 12:45:14 <Stskeeps> wazd: how tall is the top bar in fremantle?
Oct 18 12:46:42 <lopz> hey ;)
Oct 18 12:48:24 <wazd> Stskeeps: 56px
Oct 18 12:50:28 <wazd> konttori_: and another question: is TaskSwitcherNotificationBackground.png used?
Oct 18 12:50:49 <wazd> konttori_: cause it's written in .psd file that it's not
Oct 18 12:55:23 <RST38h> (shit, people, give wazd his N900 already :))
Oct 18 12:58:15 * ShadowJK is having way too much fun after his N810 battery became extremely worn/crap :-)
Oct 18 12:58:43 <SpeedEvil> ?
Oct 18 12:59:09 <ShadowJK> just exploring all the bugs/features in the charging system
Oct 18 12:59:32 <SpeedEvil> ah
Oct 18 12:59:58 <ShadowJK> without charger connected right now, battery voltage sits at about 3500mV, which is below the point at which tablet starts complaining about low battery
Oct 18 13:00:25 <SpeedEvil> you mean when 'charged' ?
Oct 18 13:00:38 <ShadowJK> Well... getting it charged is a challenge
Oct 18 13:00:41 <SpeedEvil> new bat from ebay.
Oct 18 13:00:44 <SpeedEvil> problem solved
Oct 18 13:01:21 <ShadowJK> When I connect charger, the entire 900mA from the charger gets dumped into the battery, this would be all fine and dandy with a fresh battery, but with this aged one, battery voltage climbs rapidly
Oct 18 13:01:32 <RST38h> from ebay?
Oct 18 13:01:34 <ShadowJK> and reaches 4600mV in a few minutes, at which point bme does abort()
Oct 18 13:01:40 <RST38h> won't stay soled for long
Oct 18 13:01:46 <RST38h> s/soled/solved
Oct 18 13:01:51 <wazd> RST38h: nobody have *mine* n900 :)
Oct 18 13:01:52 <ShadowJK> in a non-RD-mode regular tablet this would make it reboot
Oct 18 13:01:57 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: Personally, batteries from ebay work well for me.
Oct 18 13:01:57 <ShadowJK> s/reboot/reset
Oct 18 13:02:15 <RST38h> wazd: Actually, Forum Nokia dev program does
Oct 18 13:02:24 <ShadowJK> I tried just making bme restart constantly... but I ended up with a frighteningly hot battery :)
Oct 18 13:02:50 <SpeedEvil> Even genuine nokias aren't that much. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-NOKIA-BP-4L-BATTERY-FOR-E71-N97-E63-N810-E90_W0QQitemZ180414517185QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneBatteries?hash=item2a018b0fc1
Oct 18 13:03:03 <derf> ShadowJK: bme makes my N810's battery disturbingly hot all on its own.
Oct 18 13:03:19 <ShadowJK> I connected a very weak charger, 300-ish mA... this limits the voltage rise, and bme doesn't panic
Oct 18 13:03:26 <RST38h> ShadowJK: If you just stick a nail through it and then run, it will be way more fun than doing the same with bme =)
Oct 18 13:03:29 <ShadowJK> derf, nah mine barely got hot at all as new
Oct 18 13:03:38 <derf> Well, mine's not new.
Oct 18 13:04:10 <RST38h> wazd: Just send your personal data for the discount.
Oct 18 13:04:10 <ShadowJK> As Lithium-Ion batteries age, the internal resistance increases.. with that comes more heat, and greater voltage sag
Oct 18 13:04:18 <derf> I'm just saying, bme doesn't abort() for me.
Oct 18 13:04:38 <derf> Just suddenly my pocket gets very warm.
Oct 18 13:04:44 <wazd> RST38h: I already sent - no reply :)
Oct 18 13:05:06 <RST38h> wazd: same here, will take a while judging from the previous experience
Oct 18 13:05:36 <ShadowJK> you charge it in your pocket? :-)
Oct 18 13:05:49 <derf> No, it happens both charging and discharging.
Oct 18 13:05:51 <ShadowJK> anyway, "Closed switch voltage" or something like that in ftd is of interest
Oct 18 13:05:58 <derf> But only once it gets down fairly low.
Oct 18 13:11:29 <zerojay> I think maemo.org has gone off the rails again.
Oct 18 13:11:47 <javispedro> tmo? lol
Oct 18 13:12:02 <zerojay> The packages interface.
Oct 18 13:12:17 <javispedro> a.
Oct 18 13:16:07 <RST38h> What is about it?
Oct 18 13:18:38 <RST38h> javispedro: ...UAE port...
Oct 18 13:19:55 <javispedro> no interest from me... so low priority... :P
Oct 18 13:20:30 <javispedro> hi Firebird! did you get a SDL 1.3 sample app?
Oct 18 13:20:32 <zerojay> RST38h: You know, it kind of surprised me when I found out who you were, by the way.
Oct 18 13:21:27 <javispedro> zerojay: I was impressed when I noticed he was fms lol :)
Oct 18 13:22:15 <Firebird> javispedro, yea
Oct 18 13:22:33 <javispedro> and did it work in x86 sdk?
Oct 18 13:22:36 <zerojay> Well, I didn't know him by fms... just as Marat, that guy that made iNES... probably the first emulator I used years and years ago.
Oct 18 13:23:06 <Firebird> javispedro, I get the "no opengl on this system error" since my SDK doesn't have opengl/direct rendering
Oct 18 13:23:33 <javispedro> Firebird: you get the gui up, don't you? then you have software rendering at least. it should work.
Oct 18 13:24:13 <javispedro> libGLESv2 lib calls libGL1 which tries to use GLX then falls back to Mesa (AFAIK)
Oct 18 13:24:48 <javispedro> (in fact the x86 clutter calls libGL1 directly)
Oct 18 13:24:59 <Firebird> hm
Oct 18 13:25:12 <javispedro> can you email me the test app?
Oct 18 13:25:34 <javispedro> or the url where you get it from, if it's uploaded somewhere.
Oct 18 13:26:37 <Firebird> I'll pastebin the modified source(got it from a ported nehe tutorial)
Oct 18 13:26:44 <javispedro> ah, cool stuff.
Oct 18 13:27:10 <Firebird> javispedro, http://pastebin.com/m69850982
Oct 18 13:30:50 <javispedro> ouch, extras-devel broken. I get file size mismatch.
Oct 18 13:30:52 <RST38h> zerojay: And?
Oct 18 13:31:06 <RST38h> javispedro: Returning to that UAE topic... =)
Oct 18 13:31:32 <RST38h> javispedro: A lot of people seem to be preparing their lulz for the guy who makes a proper port ;)
Oct 18 13:31:47 <javispedro> well, there are various kinds of lulz to choose from :)
Oct 18 13:32:11 <javispedro> i am personally interested in the n64 one, so I'm monitoring it.
Oct 18 13:32:11 <RST38h> These are good, real, old skool lulz =)
Oct 18 13:32:32 <RST38h> N64 is probably going to be useless, both because of the performance and the software availability
Oct 18 13:32:49 * javispedro didn't hear that LALALALA
Oct 18 13:33:09 * RST38h would say Genesis/Megadrive and Amiga are the most realistic platforms to do at the moment
Oct 18 13:33:20 <SpeedEvil> spectrum!
Oct 18 13:33:25 <RST38h> ARM-optimized emulators exist, software available, performance sufficient
Oct 18 13:33:42 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: Spectrum is already done by myself =)
Oct 18 13:34:34 <javispedro> Firebird: can't get libsdl-1.3 from extras-devel (wrong file size) and can't build it from your source ("C compiler can't generate executables"?)
Oct 18 13:34:56 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: Oh! :)
Oct 18 13:35:17 <SpeedEvil> accelerometer driven Pong?
Oct 18 13:35:23 <SpeedEvil> With bluetooth 2-player mode?
Oct 18 13:35:29 <javispedro> Firebird: i see it's trying to pass arm specific optimizations for the x86 build (-mfpu=vfp)
Oct 18 13:35:57 <Firebird> javispedro, dunno, it went through the autobuilder, and the deb I built here works...
Oct 18 13:36:09 <RST38h> Speed: Accelerometer works in Speccy
Oct 18 13:36:22 <RST38h> Speed: As to 2-player, it should work as long as you know each other's ip addresses
Oct 18 13:36:43 <javispedro> ouch. I see your sample uses ogles 1.1
Oct 18 13:36:48 <Firebird> yea
Oct 18 13:36:52 <zerojay> RST38h: It was just a surprise that I would come across you again with Maemo, that's all. Really glad someone like you took an interest in it.
Oct 18 13:37:03 <RST38h> ah, thanks
Oct 18 13:37:04 <Firebird> I think the SDL ogles port is 1.1 also
Oct 18 13:37:27 <javispedro> Firebird: ouch, then to test it I have to pull the ugly imagination sdk again
Oct 18 13:38:01 <Firebird> or someone on a device could test?
Oct 18 13:38:19 <Firebird> blarg, getting "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set" in the SDK
Oct 18 13:38:28 <javispedro> running arm binaries in x85 target.
Oct 18 13:39:04 <Firebird> ah right, forgot I recompiled them
Oct 18 13:39:39 <javispedro> ouch, found out. I had vfp in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS.
Oct 18 13:41:03 <Firebird> hm, SDL 1.3 GLES is indeed 1.1 :/
Oct 18 13:41:29 <javispedro> that kinda sucks. are you sure there isn't a way to require a specific version drawable?
Oct 18 13:41:35 <Firebird> though, there is code also for 2.0 in there O_o
Oct 18 13:41:53 <v6sa> Hey guys is there any information how to reflash N900?
Oct 18 13:43:23 <Firebird> javispedro, a 2.0 program could possibly work... I haven't read my opengles 2.0 book yet though
Oct 18 13:43:46 <javispedro> a 2.0 program may need a specific bit in the surface options. I don't know if the powervr implementation requires it tho.
Oct 18 13:45:57 <Firebird> pandora supposedly uses opengles2.0 so maybe.. just maybe it will work?
Oct 18 13:46:01 <atmosx> hello
Oct 18 13:46:24 <javispedro> Firebird: device has ogles 1.1 , so it will work.
Oct 18 13:46:31 <javispedro> (I mean, apart from ogles 2.0)
Oct 18 13:46:48 <javispedro> but it would be interesting to know if you can just throw in ogles 2 calls in there.
Oct 18 13:47:03 <RST38h> javispedro: you mean 8085? =)
Oct 18 13:47:43 <javispedro> lol, it existed.
Oct 18 13:47:50 <RST38h> of course it did
Oct 18 13:47:55 <zerojay> v6sa: You need the flasher program along with the firmware/emmc images.
Oct 18 13:48:33 <zerojay> v6sa: flasher-3.5 -F [firmware image] -f
Oct 18 13:48:51 <zerojay> v6sa: flasher-3.5 -F [emmc image] -f
Oct 18 13:49:13 <v6sa> zerojay: Where can I get image for n900?
Oct 18 13:49:16 <Firebird> javispedro, do you have the source of that red triangle ogl test?
Oct 18 13:49:22 <javispedro> of course
Oct 18 13:49:26 <zerojay> v6sa: From Nokia.
Oct 18 13:49:38 <javispedro> Firebird:
Oct 18 13:49:40 <javispedro>  
Oct 18 13:49:42 <javispedro> damn.
Oct 18 13:49:49 <javispedro> Firebird: http://depot.javispedro.com/oglesv2test/ogltest.tar.gz
Oct 18 13:49:56 <Firebird> thanks
Oct 18 13:50:27 <zerojay> v6sa: The firmware images I have access to are individually encrypted and passworded. I'm not allowed to hand them out as far as I know.
Oct 18 13:50:36 <javispedro> Firebird: specially look at ogl.c file
Oct 18 13:50:37 <v6sa> okay I see
Oct 18 13:51:07 <zerojay> v6sa: And no firmware images have been made public. If you're having problems with your device and require reflashing, I would get a hold of Quim Gil.
Oct 18 13:55:08 <v6sa> zerojay: What about repartitioning? My root partition is way too small
Oct 18 13:55:41 <zerojay> v6sa: I've never done it.  I've never tried. I'm sure someone else here must have.
Oct 18 13:56:34 <Firebird> javispedro, does ogl 1.1 use egl?
Oct 18 13:58:41 <javispedro> yes
Oct 18 13:59:44 <vladovg> hi all
Oct 18 13:59:45 <vladovg> :)
Oct 18 13:59:49 <ShadowJK> v6sa, root partition as in / ubifs?
Oct 18 14:01:17 <v6sa> yup
Oct 18 14:01:41 <wazd> ohoh. Genesis please!
Oct 18 14:01:47 <ShadowJK> v6sa, it can't be enlarged
Oct 18 14:01:55 <v6sa> eh?
Oct 18 14:01:55 <ShadowJK> it's not part of the 32GByte emmc
Oct 18 14:01:57 <v6sa> aa
Oct 18 14:02:05 <v6sa> but how can I install more software then? :S
Oct 18 14:02:06 <RST38h> The Java thread finally went crazy
Oct 18 14:02:32 * RST38h has been waiting for this moment: sooner or later it would join the MMS thread in craziness
Oct 18 14:02:46 <ShadowJK> v6sa, well, there's a thread on tmo where qgil asked people who fill up their / to list the software they installed, so that we can complain to the people who made packages that use much space on / :)
Oct 18 14:03:00 <v6sa> haha
Oct 18 14:03:03 <v6sa> okay then
Oct 18 14:03:17 <v6sa> it would be okay to move /usr and mount from other partition?
Oct 18 14:03:18 * wazd drools at the thoughts bout playing Road Rash on his good ol' n800 :)
Oct 18 14:04:03 <zerojay> RST38h: The one and only reason I would want JME on an N900 is just to play the cell phone games my company made... other than that, Java - in all its forms - should be murdered.
Oct 18 14:04:07 <ShadowJK> v6sa, might be, if the other partitions are available early enough in boot. wont work on vfat/fat32 partition though.
Oct 18 14:04:27 <ShadowJK> you'd need to symlink stuff across and so on, too..
Oct 18 14:04:34 <v6sa> not really
Oct 18 14:04:42 <v6sa> mount --bind helps :D
Oct 18 14:04:45 <v6sa> but other question
Oct 18 14:04:50 <ShadowJK> But if nobody ever reports what packages use up space on / this problem is never going to get fixed :)
Oct 18 14:04:50 <v6sa> where are the phone numbers stored?
Oct 18 14:06:44 <RST38h> zerojay: I 100% agree
Oct 18 14:06:53 <RST38h> wazd: You can do it right away
Oct 18 14:07:12 <RST38h> wazd: Install MasterGear (MG) from Extras and get yourself an SMS or GG copy of RoadRash. Case closed.
Oct 18 14:08:39 <RST38h> zerojay: See here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32914&page=5 (fun starts at the top)
Oct 18 14:09:36 <zerojay> Yeah, I just got caught up.
Oct 18 14:09:53 <derf> What astounds me even more is that a company filled with smart people like Google would base an entire phone OS on the language.
Oct 18 14:10:04 <RST38h> derf: Not the whole company
Oct 18 14:10:16 <derf> RST38h: I know not the whole company.
Oct 18 14:10:18 <RST38h> derf: Google hates Java in general, it is one of the questions on their interview
Oct 18 14:10:30 <RST38h> derf: "Which language you think we are NOT using on large scale?"
Oct 18 14:10:34 <javispedro> Google != Android
Oct 18 14:10:51 <javispedro> They bough it half the way, remember.
Oct 18 14:10:52 <derf> I know the whole company isn't smart people, too.
Oct 18 14:10:57 <RST38h> derf: But the Android team came up with a coherent vision and java was part of it, so it is there
Oct 18 14:11:13 <RST38h> And I know some very smart people who still believe in Java, or a limited subset of Java
Oct 18 14:11:38 <derf> I know more than one person who was interested in Android, then found out it was Java, and immediately lost interest.
Oct 18 14:12:36 <mikhas> good for us. I hope they hate java for the right reasons though ...
Oct 18 14:12:37 <derf> I mean, I believe in Java for certain things.
Oct 18 14:12:48 <wazd> RST38h: it's more a matter of nostalgia, want exactly Road Rash 3 :)
Oct 18 14:12:50 <RST38h> mikhas: Same as everyone else
Oct 18 14:12:52 <derf> An embedded system is not one of them.
Oct 18 14:13:00 <wazd> RST38h: my first game ever :)
Oct 18 14:13:09 <RST38h> mikhas: Resource hog, slow, not really portable even between secondary JVM versions
Oct 18 14:13:17 <RST38h> wazd: Let me check
Oct 18 14:13:45 <derf> Java is a good language to use when you have lots of mediocre programmers and don't care about performance.
Oct 18 14:13:53 <mikhas> well, I still want to see how the G1 gc performs on embed devices
Oct 18 14:14:09 <RST38h> derf: When you have a lot of mediocre programmers the good language is the one you write in their pink slips
Oct 18 14:14:28 <wazd> bbl, have to give my sister some cash :)
Oct 18 14:14:49 <derf> RST38h: Not in government contracting.
Oct 18 14:15:01 <RST38h> derf: No, really. You can't sanely believe in getting away with mediocre employees
Oct 18 14:15:03 <derf> Lots of mediocre programmers == lots of billable hours.
Oct 18 14:15:12 <RST38h> derf: That is different...
Oct 18 14:15:23 <derf> Guess what language we use...
Oct 18 14:15:29 <RST38h> wazd: I think I have RR3 for SMS
Oct 18 14:15:38 <RST38h> derf: PL/I? =)
Oct 18 14:15:43 <derf> Haha.
Oct 18 14:16:24 <RST38h> Ok, I have got RoadRash1 (but not 3) for both systes
Oct 18 14:16:26 <RST38h> ms
Oct 18 14:16:55 <derf> The other place you see lots of Java is "enterprise" software.
Oct 18 14:17:09 <derf> And it's probably not a bad match there, either.
Oct 18 14:18:13 <derf> You get mediocre programmers, because there the only ones who would be interested in most of the problems they have to solve, and it's cheaper to just buy beefier hardware than to let them use C.
Oct 18 14:19:01 <RST38h> derf: they can't progra in either
Oct 18 14:19:10 <RST38h> c, java, who cares, they just can't program
Oct 18 14:19:56 <RST38h> fortunately, outside of j2me, java is going away, so let us rejoice
Oct 18 14:20:23 <derf> I haven't used it for anything imporant in 3 or 4 years.
Oct 18 14:20:25 <derf> It's been great.
Oct 18 14:20:43 <javispedro> Of course Java is great.,
Oct 18 14:20:45 <RST38h> Next goal: Get rid of XML!
Oct 18 14:20:50 <lardman> afternoon
Oct 18 14:20:56 <javispedro> hi lardman
Oct 18 14:21:09 <lardman> hi javispedro
Oct 18 14:26:08 <Firebird> hurray, its finished, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=350109&postcount=5
Oct 18 14:27:33 <wnd> that's nice
Oct 18 14:30:08 <mikhas> newbie question: how do I replace the boot video?
Oct 18 14:31:11 <Firebird> mikhas, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=347925&postcount=9
Oct 18 14:31:38 <mikhas> cool, thanks!
Oct 18 14:36:09 * RST38h once again wonders if Andre comes out with bogus reasons for wontfixing bugs on his own or whether he just relays information from someone else
Oct 18 14:36:44 <RST38h> It is Sunday, so that must be his own attempt at kicking people off: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5567
Oct 18 14:36:46 <javispedro> lol
Oct 18 14:37:00 <javispedro> gartner says maemo will have 4,5% market in 2021
Oct 18 14:37:02 <javispedro> er.. 2012
Oct 18 14:37:20 <javispedro> 4.5% market .
Oct 18 14:37:21 <RST38h> market of what?
Oct 18 14:37:39 <javispedro> of "smartphone operating systems"
Oct 18 14:37:44 <RST38h> oh
Oct 18 14:38:04 <GAN900_> RST38h, :roll:
Oct 18 14:38:08 <RST38h> what is the market share currently held by N95/N82/N97/etc?
Oct 18 14:38:17 <RST38h> GAN: I am really tired of it, you know?
Oct 18 14:38:58 <RST38h> GAN: If he closes the bug, at least he should come up with a good enough reason. After all, *I* am trying to come up with the best bug description, right?
Oct 18 14:39:00 <GAN900> RST38h, killing the messenger wont help.
Oct 18 14:39:13 <javispedro> RST38h: what's the bug report for anyway? that's the behaviour I would expect.
Oct 18 14:39:23 <RST38h> javis: Well, consider this
Oct 18 14:39:50 <RST38h> javis: You are looking at the POP3 mailbox from Modest. You mark a few messages deleted and do Send&Receive. Messages go away from Modest.
Oct 18 14:40:03 <RST38h> javis: But next time you open Modest they still come up
Oct 18 14:40:12 <javispedro> that's the bug. modest should keep the msg ids.
Oct 18 14:40:33 <RST38h> javis: And, btw, if you try deleting them from the mailbox using some other means, Modest will hang and no longer show up-todate mailbox contents
Oct 18 14:40:34 <javispedro> and not retrieve them again.
Oct 18 14:40:42 <javispedro> lol.
Oct 18 14:40:45 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: so...
Oct 18 14:40:53 <RST38h> javis: The only reason why I have not mentioned it is because I was afraid of mr Klapper marking the bug "vague" :)
Oct 18 14:40:56 <timeless_mbp> bugs against upstream apps should really be filed upstream
Oct 18 14:41:09 <RST38h> what is "upstream app" here?
Oct 18 14:41:17 <timeless_mbp> they have a trac system somewhere
Oct 18 14:41:19 <timeless_mbp> it's tinymail
Oct 18 14:41:27 <timeless_mbp> http://tinymail.org/trac/tinymail
Oct 18 14:42:03 <RST38h> As far as I am concerned it is a bug in Modest. As a user, I do not wanna know what upstream app Modest uses.
Oct 18 14:42:23 <timeless_mbp> um
Oct 18 14:42:24 <TechGeek2> how can i enable RD mode in maemo 4 on the terminal?
Oct 18 14:42:25 <andre__> RST38h, i don't think that mentioning *more* makes a bug *more* vague
Oct 18 14:42:30 <timeless_mbp> the moment you start speaking Protocols you aren't a user
Oct 18 14:42:34 <RST38h> In other words, you have done a little bit better than Andre with your wontfix reasoning, but still no doughnut
Oct 18 14:42:49 <timeless_mbp> users do not speak protocols
Oct 18 14:42:57 <timeless_mbp> people who speak protocols can find upstreams
Oct 18 14:43:00 <andre__> RST38h, talking in third person is annoying
Oct 18 14:43:04 <andre__> if you have an issue, i'm around
Oct 18 14:43:10 <RST38h> andre: Oh, believe me, really weird shit starts happening in the case described above. If I could pinpoint the exact nature of it I would mention it :(
Oct 18 14:43:20 <RST38h> andre: See the tracker.
Oct 18 14:43:23 <andre__> and with regard to bogus: nope. i've been in gnome evolution for five years. i think i know the basics
Oct 18 14:43:37 <andre__> pop3 is pop3.
Oct 18 14:43:45 <TechGeek2> can someone please help me? I need to enable RD mode to do sudo gainroot
Oct 18 14:43:53 <timeless_mbp> TechGeek2: you don't
Oct 18 14:43:55 <andre__> TechGeek2, no, you do not.
Oct 18 14:43:56 <timeless_mbp> install 'rootsh'
Oct 18 14:43:58 <andre__> instead, install rootsh
Oct 18 14:44:12 <RST38h> andre: Well if I delete the message I expect it to be deleted. Otherwise, Modest should not allow me to delete messages.
Oct 18 14:44:28 <andre__> RST38h, use imap.
Oct 18 14:44:32 <andre__> or understand what pop is about.
Oct 18 14:44:36 <RST38h> andre: There is nothing preventing modest from doing DELE and then UPDATE on Send&Receive
Oct 18 14:44:49 <timeless_mbp> andre__: fwiw, technically, he's right
Oct 18 14:44:55 <RST38h> andre: I am using whatever I am given.
Oct 18 14:44:55 <timeless_mbp> in practice, there's no way this will be fixed
Oct 18 14:44:59 <javispedro> the bug here is that modest should not delete POP3 message if set to keep msgs on server but shadow them.
Oct 18 14:45:02 <javispedro> keeping the ids.
Oct 18 14:45:04 <timeless_mbp> and if he wants it to work, he needs to file it upstream
Oct 18 14:45:07 <javispedro> versamail on my oldie palm did that.
Oct 18 14:45:11 <TechGeek2> aah thank you
Oct 18 14:45:24 <RST38h> andre: I do not need to know how protocol works to see that Modest does not operate properly, from user point of view
Oct 18 14:45:29 <andre__> javispedro has the better wording :)
Oct 18 14:45:59 <timeless_mbp> andre__: i like how someone lied to you about how bookmarks work :)
Oct 18 14:46:11 <andre__> RST38h, hmm. maybe i've been just using buggy implementations of this myself in the past and you are right :-/
Oct 18 14:46:23 <RST38h> andre: The only reason why I went and searched for POP3 RFC is to make a point.
Oct 18 14:46:23 <andre__> timeless, heh. good to know :-P
Oct 18 14:46:33 <andre__> RST38h, having that point in the initial report would have helped.
Oct 18 14:46:34 <konttori_> ah, so, opengles1.0 should now be in extras devel
Oct 18 14:46:38 <timeless_mbp> you need to learn to never trust finns or ui designers :)
Oct 18 14:46:45 <javispedro> konttori_: omg! good news!
Oct 18 14:46:50 <javispedro> Firebird: ping
Oct 18 14:46:56 <Firebird> ?
Oct 18 14:46:59 <javispedro> ^^ read above
Oct 18 14:48:05 <javispedro> konttori_: hm.. you mean x86 extras?
Oct 18 14:48:23 <konttori_> eh, in arm extras
Oct 18 14:48:33 <TechGeek2> how do I point dpkg -i to dokg something on the removable memory card?
Oct 18 14:48:33 <Firebird> thought there was already one in nokia-binaries
Oct 18 14:48:39 <javispedro> yeah, me too.
Oct 18 14:48:45 <RST38h> andre: BTW, saying that it is not Nokia's fault also won't fly, as the problem has been observed in Modest. No user will know what that tinymail thing is.
Oct 18 14:48:54 <javispedro> sorry, I though x86 extras :( :P
Oct 18 14:48:56 <timeless_mbp> TechGeek2: err, why/
Oct 18 14:49:02 <timeless_mbp> rootsh is in the repositories
Oct 18 14:49:08 <timeless_mbp> -i takes a path...
Oct 18 14:49:16 <RST38h> (may I suggest actually fixing it rather than coming up with an excuse? :))
Oct 18 14:49:16 <TechGeek2> i already got root - i'm trying to install somehitng
Oct 18 14:49:27 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: asking a triager to fix a bug is rude and stupid
Oct 18 14:49:34 <timeless_mbp> if there are 10,000 bugs
Oct 18 14:49:41 <timeless_mbp> asking one person to fix all of them ....
Oct 18 14:49:42 <javispedro> wikipedia is plain more wrong every day.
Oct 18 14:49:52 <javispedro> The system has 256 MB of dedicated RAM (Mobile DDR) along with 768 MB of swap on a separate 768MB NAND area (not part of the 32GBs storrage)
Oct 18 14:49:52 <RST38h> The triager may at least bring the bug to the attention of the relevant developer, can't he?
Oct 18 14:49:53 <javispedro> lmao.
Oct 18 14:50:16 <RST38h> Isn't this what triagers are supposed to do?
Oct 18 14:50:18 <andre__> RST38h, i didn't say that yet i think :)
Oct 18 14:50:19 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: no
Oct 18 14:50:24 <TechGeek2> timeless_mbp if it do "dpkg -i filename" how can I get the filename to be a file on teh removable memory card
Oct 18 14:50:29 <timeless_mbp> he could try to bring it to the attention of the right team
Oct 18 14:50:34 <epa_> anyone working on getting encfs for swap and userdata?
Oct 18 14:50:36 <timeless_mbp> TechGeek2: -i takes a path, not a file
Oct 18 14:50:42 <konttori_> javispedro: do you have a n900 now?
Oct 18 14:50:43 <RST38h> andre: Well, that was timeless' idea, he is more experienced in this kinda thing
Oct 18 14:50:47 <andre__> ah. heh
Oct 18 14:50:49 <epa_> well ok swap could be block crypted.
Oct 18 14:50:56 <javispedro> konttori_: been invited to the dev program, but not yet.
Oct 18 14:51:06 <TechGeek2> ok then - what's the path to the removable memory card?
Oct 18 14:51:09 <konttori_> ok, so you should get one soon then I suppose
Oct 18 14:51:19 <timeless_mbp>  TechGeek2 it's in /media/...
Oct 18 14:51:22 <timeless_mbp> use tab completion
Oct 18 14:52:31 <TechGeek2> ok I have a file on the card I want to dpkg. Would I use "dpkg /media/ libdtmx0.deb" to do it?
Oct 18 14:52:41 <timeless_mbp> no
Oct 18 14:52:42 <timeless_mbp> no
Oct 18 14:52:43 <timeless_mbp> no
Oct 18 14:52:55 <timeless_mbp>  /media/ is a path to a directory
Oct 18 14:52:59 * qwerty12_N810 laughs at the irony of the nick
Oct 18 14:53:06 <timeless_mbp> dpkg wants a command argument first
Oct 18 14:53:08 <timeless_mbp> (-i)
Oct 18 14:53:14 <timeless_mbp> and -i wants a path to a *file*
Oct 18 14:53:16 <javispedro> I have this feeling he wants to "install to media card".
Oct 18 14:53:30 <timeless_mbp> oh
Oct 18 14:53:33 <timeless_mbp> eww
Oct 18 14:53:39 <timeless_mbp> "sorry"
Oct 18 14:53:44 <javispedro> TechGeek2: can you describe what do you want exactly?
Oct 18 14:53:57 <TechGeek2> I want to install this http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=27508&page=2
Oct 18 14:54:08 <ShadowJK> Hm, even when charging at a very modest rate (250mA), my N810 is getting warm :/
Oct 18 14:54:22 <ShadowJK> This battery is so f-d up :-)
Oct 18 14:54:29 <homeasvs__> anyone know how I can force my n800 to rescan the media library ?
Oct 18 14:54:44 <javispedro> then it's me the one who's wrong and timeless was right :)
Oct 18 14:54:55 <timeless_mbp> i don't have to always be right
Oct 18 14:55:02 <timeless_mbp> ambiguity is hazardous to everyone
Oct 18 14:55:07 <timeless_mbp> i'm just rarely wrong :)
Oct 18 14:55:39 <TechGeek2> all i need is the directory of the media card
Oct 18 14:55:54 <konttori_> homeasvs__: tracker-processes -r
Oct 18 14:56:02 <javispedro> isn't it /media/mmc1/ like usual?
Oct 18 14:56:11 <konttori_> then run tracker-status
Oct 18 14:56:12 <b-man17> yup
Oct 18 14:56:28 <konttori_> homeasvs__: on, n800. no clue
Oct 18 14:56:51 <TechGeek2> jacispedro no that doesnt work
Oct 18 14:57:08 <b-man17> TechGeek2: dpkg -i /medi/mmc1/libtdmxo.deb?
Oct 18 14:57:18 <homeasvs__> konttori_, so those instructions were for what ?
Oct 18 14:57:25 <javispedro> /mediA
Oct 18 14:57:29 <TechGeek2> i'm currently entering "dpkg -i /media/mmc1/ libtmx0a.deb (i renamed the file)
Oct 18 14:57:37 <konttori_> homeasvs__: for n900
Oct 18 14:57:40 * b-man17 noticed his typo ><
Oct 18 14:58:16 <TechGeek2> ^there was a d in there
Oct 18 14:58:17 <javispedro> so, do we have an official page explaining the n900 part layout I can use as a wikipedia ref?
Oct 18 14:58:30 <timeless_mbp> TechGeek2: you don't want a space between the path and the file ...
Oct 18 14:58:38 <javispedro> I am bit sick of people pointing to wikipedia which points to random wrong sources.
Oct 18 14:58:40 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: doubtful
Oct 18 14:59:08 <b-man17> TechGeek2: try dpkg -i /media/mmc1/libtdmxo.deb and if that doen´t work, try dpkg -i /media/mmc1/libtdmxo.deb
Oct 18 14:59:22 <b-man17> doesn´t
Oct 18 14:59:33 * b-man17 needs some coffe
Oct 18 14:59:35 <RST38h> javispedro: good people point directly to Encyclopedia Dramatica but do not disclose that
Oct 18 14:59:45 <RST38h> javispedro: Provides for endless fun
Oct 18 15:00:04 <javispedro> I'd prefer to point to another news page pointing to wikipedia.
Oct 18 15:00:05 <TechGeek2> b-man i cant see the difference between the 2
Oct 18 15:00:08 <javispedro> endless loop fun.
Oct 18 15:00:30 <RST38h> hehe
Oct 18 15:00:56 <javispedro> at this point, I could basically put up some weird acronym, like "N900 has MTIID" and get away with it.
Oct 18 15:01:11 <timeless_mbp> heh
Oct 18 15:01:20 <timeless_mbp> someone could probably take df output and post it somewhere
Oct 18 15:01:25 <timeless_mbp> preferably w/o the sizes
Oct 18 15:01:29 <timeless_mbp> since they're subject to change
Oct 18 15:01:40 <TechGeek2> ^ i found the error
Oct 18 15:01:49 <timeless_mbp> for more fun, one could explain autorun.inf and the .documents and Mac OS folders :)
Oct 18 15:02:02 <javispedro> autorun.inf? lol
Oct 18 15:02:13 <TechGeek2> yay it worked
Oct 18 15:02:36 * javispedro puts up a template:citation needed for first time in his life
Oct 18 15:02:40 <TechGeek2> it was on his website he wrote the filename as libdtmx0 and the filename was actually libdmtx0
Oct 18 15:08:23 <javispedro> now that zerojay finally confessed you can't actually make video jingle calls using the N900 (being reserved for another sw upgrade), I wonder about the wikipedia "can be used to do video calls using Google Talk" factoid.
Oct 18 15:09:09 <RST38h> It is easier to google things than look for them on wikipedia
Oct 18 15:09:11 <javispedro> "As the Nokia N900 has fewer hardware buttons.." compared to WHAT again? who writes those things.
Oct 18 15:09:15 <konttori_> I think you can still see the other person if you make a gtalk call
Oct 18 15:09:28 <RST38h> konttori: Should we try?
Oct 18 15:09:30 <konttori_> but when you try enabling your video, it dies. (as far as I remember)
Oct 18 15:09:44 <javispedro> at, so it should be a high priority bug then :P
Oct 18 15:09:51 <konttori_> only works between n810/n800 and n900
Oct 18 15:09:55 <RST38h> You got a camera in that Mac, didn't you?
Oct 18 15:10:01 <javispedro> oh, that's good enough for me (same as n810 then)
Oct 18 15:10:18 <RST38h> konttori: So it won't work from a Max?
Oct 18 15:10:20 <RST38h> Mac
Oct 18 15:10:22 <javispedro> RST38h: macs using a standard protocol? right over jobs colds fingers.
Oct 18 15:10:27 <konttori_> anyway, video calls should come some time this year
Oct 18 15:10:41 <konttori_> s/should/will
Oct 18 15:10:45 <javispedro> :)
Oct 18 15:11:26 <javispedro> "Typical battery time for the N810 is around 4 hours"????
Oct 18 15:11:34 <javispedro> wtf. I get 6 hours with processor at full speed.
Oct 18 15:11:40 <javispedro> how's typical going to be 4.
Oct 18 15:12:03 <lcuk> normal users run mahjong - that thing is a battery killer :P
Oct 18 15:12:21 <javispedro> worse thing is that quote nokiausa.com
Oct 18 15:12:42 <RST38h> konttori <-- just revealed upcoming SSU before the end of 2009
Oct 18 15:13:03 <javispedro> RST38h: "we" (since I consider myself a future n900 owner now) have been promised portrait browser too.
Oct 18 15:13:07 <RST38h> javis: 4 hours playing video is gonna be typical
Oct 18 15:13:08 <TechGeek2> ok so I did the dpkg successfully (I ahve no idea what it did but it did something) and I used chmod a+x on the other file and it worked. what do i do now? it doesn't say in the forum
Oct 18 15:13:19 <RST38h> javis: Portrait browser is implemented
Oct 18 15:13:23 <konttori_> portrait browsing works quite nicely already.
Oct 18 15:13:27 <RST38h> javis: Seen it in action
Oct 18 15:13:30 <javispedro> ah, good to know :)
Oct 18 15:13:37 <RST38h> javis: Just disabled in 41.10
Oct 18 15:13:39 <konttori_> it's only matter of when it's released.
Oct 18 15:13:56 <aSIMULAtur> heh
Oct 18 15:13:59 <lcuk> does it still need ui including tho?
Oct 18 15:14:02 <RST38h> Actually, zoom-with-reflow is also implemented
Oct 18 15:14:02 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: "Disabled" or "Not present"?
Oct 18 15:14:10 <RST38h> qwerty: disabled
Oct 18 15:14:15 <lcuk> like the phone has the "auto/portrait" switch or something
Oct 18 15:14:22 <qwerty12_N810> Good. I've got some spare time.
Oct 18 15:14:27 <RST38h> Ctrl+Shift+R should (theoretically) turn on zoom-with-reflow
Oct 18 15:15:40 <javispedro> cool.
Oct 18 15:16:13 <RST38h> there is hope that this feature will be enabled via about:config, because the UI people protest its inclusion by default
Oct 18 15:16:20 <TechGeek2> last question for me: how do I get permission to open a file from the terminal? I try opening it and it says Permission denied
Oct 18 15:16:32 <RST38h> you try opening what?
Oct 18 15:17:06 <TechGeek2> the QR reader file that i made an executable
Oct 18 15:17:39 <RST38h> ah, you have to place it into partition that allows execution
Oct 18 15:17:49 <RST38h> mv qreader /usr/bin for example
Oct 18 15:19:05 <TechGeek2> does the internal memory card support execution?
Oct 18 15:19:20 <javispedro> the ext3 partition does.
Oct 18 15:19:30 <javispedro> (/home/user for example)
Oct 18 15:19:38 <javispedro> MyDocs does not.
Oct 18 15:20:17 <TechGeek2> ok I typed "mv /media/mmc1/mbarcode /usr/bin" and it cant find it. what am i m issing?
Oct 18 15:20:30 <javispedro> emelfm2.
Oct 18 15:20:36 <javispedro> is it already packaged?
Oct 18 15:21:36 <TechGeek2> There were 2 files. I did dpkg -i to one. I did chmod a+x to mbarcode
Oct 18 15:22:05 <TechGeek2> qwerty12 are you here?
Oct 18 15:27:13 <RST38h> TheGeek2: move mbarcode to /usr/bin
Oct 18 15:27:15 <RST38h> than run it
Oct 18 15:32:37 <TechGeek2> how do I move it?
Oct 18 15:32:52 <TechGeek2> I typed "mv /media/mmc1/mbarcode /usr/bin" and it doesnt work
Oct 18 15:32:57 <RST38h> [patiently] You type mv mbarcode /usr/bin
Oct 18 15:33:06 <RST38h> what does i say?
Oct 18 15:33:46 <TechGeek2> it says: cannot rename 'mbarcode':no such file or directory
Oct 18 15:33:53 <RST38h> ok
Oct 18 15:34:07 <RST38h> please do "ls -l" and see if mbarcode is there
Oct 18 15:34:19 <ifreq> linux basics chan?:)
Oct 18 15:34:25 <ifreq> *nix
Oct 18 15:34:26 * RST38h sighs
Oct 18 15:35:02 <javispedro> this is why Maemo is still not for the average Joe! </idiot> ;)
Oct 18 15:35:16 <TechGeek2> i don't do linux i do xp - 7 computer help. there is no other mbarcode
Oct 18 15:35:19 <RST38h> mbarcode is not, at least
Oct 18 15:35:42 <RST38h> TechGeek2: Ok. Let us do it the traditional IT way
Oct 18 15:35:43 <TechGeek2> i think you need to tell it where mbarcode is
Oct 18 15:35:50 <RST38h> You are in XTerm right?
Oct 18 15:35:53 <TechGeek2> yes
Oct 18 15:36:04 <RST38h> And this is what? N900?
Oct 18 15:36:08 <TechGeek2> n810
Oct 18 15:36:12 <RST38h> Ok
Oct 18 15:36:40 <RST38h> Please type "ls -l ~user" and see if you can find mbarcode there
Oct 18 15:36:48 <RST38h> (press enter after you type that line)
Oct 18 15:37:48 <TechGeek2> I typed it and nothing showed up, it just changed the default directory
Oct 18 15:38:03 <RST38h> really? it did?
Oct 18 15:38:15 <RST38h> how do you know which directory is default then?
Oct 18 15:38:59 <TechGeek2> it doesn't have ~ sh anymore
Oct 18 15:39:51 <RST38h> Ok. Could you please copy the output of the commands you type and paste it here: www.pastebin.com ?
Oct 18 15:40:12 <RST38h> then give me the url
Oct 18 15:41:04 <ifreq> RST38h: i think you get best results from askjeeves.com
Oct 18 15:41:43 * RST38h suspects so too, but he is bored and doing something else in the adjacent window
Oct 18 15:42:00 <TechGeek2> how do i copy it?
Oct 18 15:42:02 <ifreq> hrr
Oct 18 15:42:34 <RST38h> ok, forget that
Oct 18 15:42:35 <TechGeek2> i got it
Oct 18 15:42:44 <RST38h> really?
Oct 18 15:43:09 <TechGeek2> pastebin.com/d2053a356
Oct 18 15:43:21 <RST38h> Cooool
Oct 18 15:45:16 <andre__> for future reference, using http:// in front of a link on irc makes it clickable for me :)
Oct 18 15:45:25 <RST38h> ok I see
Oct 18 15:45:49 <javispedro> me too.
Oct 18 15:45:59 <RST38h> TechGeek2: Please hold Ctrl key and while holding it press C, then release C and Ctrl
Oct 18 15:46:22 <TechGeek2> copy?
Oct 18 15:46:25 <javispedro> can anyone provide me a screenshot of ovi maps with 3d buildings? I want to see what's the rendering depth.
Oct 18 15:46:30 <TechGeek2> that doesn't do anything in terminal
Oct 18 15:46:41 * zerojay looks at channel.
Oct 18 15:46:48 <TechGeek2> it makes a new line
Oct 18 15:47:01 <RST38h> Good. What is written on the new line?
Oct 18 15:47:01 <zerojay> loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Oct 18 15:47:10 <TechGeek2> it's empty
Oct 18 15:47:24 <RST38h> good
Oct 18 15:47:42 <zerojay> RST38h: You're teaching him how to port Android?
Oct 18 15:48:06 <javispedro> android? Xenix.
Oct 18 15:48:06 <RST38h> zerojay: I am trying to figure out what he is doing. It is kinda like controlling a martian rover
Oct 18 15:48:09 <andre__> javispedro, if you tell me how to get to such a view.... never seen it myself yet :)
Oct 18 15:48:13 <zerojay> RST38h: lol
Oct 18 15:48:40 <RST38h> TechGeek2: All right, please type this:    ls -l /media/mmc1
Oct 18 15:48:45 <javispedro> andre__: it should theoretically do that in 3d views around big cities (barcelona, ...)
Oct 18 15:48:58 <RST38h> TechGeek2: Then press enter and copy whatever you get to pastebin
Oct 18 15:49:01 <zerojay> NYC for sure.
Oct 18 15:49:23 <TechGeek2> i didn't get anything
Oct 18 15:49:39 <javispedro> like: http://phonereport.info/wp-content/uploads/nokia-maps-30-screenshot-on-a-phone.jpg
Oct 18 15:49:52 <RST38h> [lardman: Please, do insure that people you give barcode thingie to at least know how to do ls =)]
Oct 18 15:49:55 <javispedro> but (hopefully) more depth.
Oct 18 15:50:10 <TechGeek2> i'll upload an image
Oct 18 15:50:29 <RST38h> TechGeek2: Have you pressed enter key?
Oct 18 15:50:32 <TechGeek2> yes
Oct 18 15:50:39 <RST38h> and you got nothing?
Oct 18 15:50:48 <lbt> anyone using N900 with asterisk?
Oct 18 15:51:33 <TechGeek2> yes
Oct 18 15:51:36 <RST38h> TechGeek2: Ok, please type:  ls -l ~user/MyDocs
Oct 18 15:51:51 <RST38h> Press enter key and tell me what you see or (better) copy output to pastebin
Oct 18 15:51:59 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: I see nothing for London, except for how anal-retentive Ovi Maps is.
Oct 18 15:52:09 <TechGeek2> i still get nothing
Oct 18 15:52:23 <javispedro> qwerty12_N810: *sighs visibily* why I get excited about things...
Oct 18 15:52:27 <andre__> qwerty12_N810, exactly
Oct 18 15:52:33 <RST38h> Ah wait, I know what is happening
Oct 18 15:52:50 <TechGeek2> qwerty12 how did you get the barcode readoer on your n810?
Oct 18 15:52:59 <RST38h> This guy is not root. He can't execute mbarcode from /media/mmc* and he can't copy it to /usr/bin
Oct 18 15:53:05 <javispedro> ah, I see 3d buildings is a ovi maps 3 feature
Oct 18 15:53:11 <qwerty12_N810> TechGeek2: I compiled it from source, on the tablet.
Oct 18 15:53:16 <TechGeek2> http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2213/1001771d.jpg
Oct 18 15:53:17 <RST38h> Anyone knows if ~user is executable?
Oct 18 15:53:40 <RST38h> Ah ok
Oct 18 15:53:48 <RST38h> Techgeek2: Please enter this:  "
Oct 18 15:53:49 <javispedro> sigh.
Oct 18 15:53:51 <RST38h> then press enter
Oct 18 15:54:22 <TechGeek2> i'll paste it into pastebin
Oct 18 15:55:31 <TechGeek2> http://pastebin.com/d6e6bf4ae
Oct 18 15:56:42 <RST38h> Very good, we are back to $
Oct 18 15:56:55 <wazd> I'm back, totally dry :)
Oct 18 15:57:04 <RST38h> Now type this:     ls -l /media/mmc1
Oct 18 15:57:10 <RST38h> Press enter, tell me what it shows
Oct 18 15:57:38 <TechGeek2> it shows A LOT of files
Oct 18 15:57:44 <RST38h> (and I should remind myself never to enclose these lines in quotes or the user will start typing quotes)
Oct 18 15:57:45 <TechGeek2> it shows the files on teh memory card
Oct 18 15:57:51 <RST38h> Is mbarcode amount them?
Oct 18 15:58:01 <TechGeek2> yes its there
Oct 18 15:58:24 <RST38h> Perrrrfect
Oct 18 15:58:55 <RST38h> Now type:     mv /media/mmc1/mbarcode ~user
Oct 18 15:58:58 <RST38h> Press enter
Oct 18 15:59:38 <javispedro> ouch ovi maps fees are steep.
Oct 18 16:00:48 <TechGeek2> mv:cannot preserve ownership of home/user/mbarcode
Oct 18 16:00:54 <TechGeek2> operation not pemitted
Oct 18 16:00:56 <RST38h> it's ok
Oct 18 16:01:00 <RST38h> hmmmm
Oct 18 16:01:02 <javispedro> no, it's not.
Oct 18 16:01:04 <TechGeek2> do i need to gain root on this?
Oct 18 16:01:17 <RST38h> all right, now type:   chmod ugo+rx ~user/mbarcode
Oct 18 16:01:23 <javispedro> ah, sorry, yes, it's ok.
Oct 18 16:01:25 <RST38h> No, do not become root yet.
Oct 18 16:01:34 <javispedro> (on n810 media/mmc1 uid gid is user:root
Oct 18 16:01:41 <RST38h> it couldn't set ownership, no problemo there
Oct 18 16:01:56 <RST38h> TechGeek2: Did chmod succeed?
Oct 18 16:03:00 <lcuk> the images for the tiled wallpapers are stored in .images, where is the config files for them
Oct 18 16:03:52 <javispedro> /usr/share/backgrounds
Oct 18 16:03:57 <lcuk> ta
Oct 18 16:04:04 <javispedro> in fact, you don't have to install the actual images in .images
Oct 18 16:04:14 <javispedro> the .desktop files have absolute paths to them
Oct 18 16:04:23 <javispedro> and you can install them for example in /opt/maemo-backgrounds/
Oct 18 16:04:45 <lcuk> mmm i dont have backgrounds
Oct 18 16:04:56 <javispedro> create it or install one of zerojay's packages
Oct 18 16:05:14 * RST38h apparently killed TechGeek2's N810 with that chmod
Oct 18 16:05:19 <zerojay> lol
Oct 18 16:05:50 <zerojay> Create it. The images program looks at /usr/share/backgrounds/ for .desktop files.
Oct 18 16:06:21 <zerojay> The nokia .deskop files are just sitting in .images.
Oct 18 16:07:26 <javispedro> ah, there are more shipped nokia backgrounds.
Oct 18 16:07:35 <javispedro> (the SDK ones are all under /usr/share/themes)
Oct 18 16:07:46 <zerojay> Themes and backgrounds are different.
Oct 18 16:08:02 <zerojay> Themes are much more all-encompassing.
Oct 18 16:09:16 <zerojay> And before anyone asks, no, there is no way we've found to hide images used for backgrounds from being added to the users Images program by tracker. Even dotfiles are found and indexed.
Oct 18 16:09:51 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: Look at my wmlbrowser package for Diablo  if you want to see how to make the browser see a new extension without multiple restarts (for Diablo's MicroB, anyway).
Oct 18 16:10:30 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: I got it down to just close all currently open browser windows.
Oct 18 16:10:58 <qwerty12_N810> Ah, cool.
Oct 18 16:10:58 <zerojay> The REAL problem here is that only certain addons will work with Maemo Browser... and I can't tell exactly which or exactly why.
Oct 18 16:11:10 * qwerty12_N810 finds himself using Tear more and more
Oct 18 16:11:21 <zerojay> On N900?
Oct 18 16:11:25 <qwerty12_N810> Yep.
Oct 18 16:11:31 <zerojay> Why?
Oct 18 16:11:42 <Stskeeps> cos the browser is still a nightmare, imho
Oct 18 16:12:15 <zerojay> Dunno... seems stable and fast to me. I don't think I ever was able to get Tear to even bring up one page without it crashing on me.
Oct 18 16:12:18 <qwerty12_N810> I hit back and the browser wont show me the previous page without scrolling the page up and down, for one.
Oct 18 16:12:39 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: Scrolling the page up and down?
Oct 18 16:12:47 <greenfly> main annoyimg thimg to me is the drop from full screen to show the url bar every time a page reloads
Oct 18 16:12:49 * Stskeeps hates the back button on the new browser too
Oct 18 16:13:07 <zerojay> I just use the back gesture. One less step.
Oct 18 16:13:23 <Stskeeps> hmm, maybe i should actually see the vido
Oct 18 16:13:24 <Stskeeps> video
Oct 18 16:13:25 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: Yep, using the kinetic to drag the page until it renders the previous page fully
Oct 18 16:13:42 <RST38h> zerojay: /msg romaxa with questions about MicroB
Oct 18 16:13:47 <zerojay> greenfly: I don't consider showing the url bar a drop from fullscreen.
Oct 18 16:13:48 <qwerty12_N810> And the fact that I can't edit URLs in the address bar is a major PITA
Oct 18 16:13:54 <javispedro> ouch.
Oct 18 16:13:57 <qwerty12_N810> +using the arrows
Oct 18 16:13:57 <javispedro> I am going to kill you all
Oct 18 16:14:00 <javispedro> andre__, qwerty12_N810:
Oct 18 16:14:01 <javispedro> http://maemo.nokia.com/images/uploads/entry-media/maps-point-of-interest.jpg
Oct 18 16:14:13 <RST38h> zerojay: If he is not busy, he should be able to help you
Oct 18 16:14:19 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: I have no idea what you're talking about... weird.
Oct 18 16:14:29 <zerojay> RST38h: He worked on Maemo browser for N900?
Oct 18 16:14:36 <RST38h> zerojay: Yes.
Oct 18 16:14:41 <zerojay> RST38h: Thanks.
Oct 18 16:15:06 <greenfly> zerojay: when it resizes the browser and re-renders it, it's annoying
Oct 18 16:15:22 <javispedro> so I guess 3d buildings will come with the paid subscription or something like that.
Oct 18 16:15:22 <zerojay> greenfly: I don't see that when the URL bar comes up.
Oct 18 16:15:27 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: Fine, let's try with Helsinki. If I still can't see 3D buildings, Ovi Maps can go fuck itself.
Oct 18 16:15:44 <TechGeek2> idk if chmod did anything
Oct 18 16:15:48 <Stskeeps> maemo mapper++
Oct 18 16:15:51 <greenfly> zerojay: try a page that autorefreshes or try to use google reader
Oct 18 16:15:53 <lcuk> are ovi maps team based in .fi ?
Oct 18 16:15:58 <TechGeek2> there was no error code
Oct 18 16:16:03 <javispedro> maemo mapper...
Oct 18 16:16:11 <TechGeek2> it just showed another line
Oct 18 16:16:34 <javispedro> it would be fine for me if it was a more local app, like oziexplorer mobile.
Oct 18 16:16:55 <zerojay> greenfly: Okay.. I'm still not seeing it.
Oct 18 16:17:26 <qwerty12_N810> Good to know: I'm 1820km from Helsinki.
Oct 18 16:17:49 * javispedro remembers a garmin gps I had.
Oct 18 16:18:01 <javispedro> that used to position himself at Garmin H.Q. after soft reset
Oct 18 16:18:15 <javispedro> BUT remembering the current destination if you had any.
Oct 18 16:18:27 <greenfly> zerojay: keep scrolling down
Oct 18 16:18:28 <javispedro> so this is me in a classrom
Oct 18 16:18:32 <TechGeek2> rst38h are you here
Oct 18 16:18:43 <RST38h> Yes
Oct 18 16:18:48 <zerojay> greenfly: scroll down until...?
Oct 18 16:18:51 <javispedro> and suddenly the GPS boasts "Please go ahead 3560kilometers and then turn to the right" at full volume.
Oct 18 16:18:51 <RST38h> Good
Oct 18 16:18:53 <greenfly> zerojay: eventually it will reload and the url bar will appear
Oct 18 16:18:54 <GAN900> Boom!
Oct 18 16:19:07 <RST38h> TechGeek2: Now type:     ~user/mbarcode
Oct 18 16:19:20 <zerojay> greenfly: On the mobile version of Google Reader?
Oct 18 16:19:54 <RST38h> TechGeek2: and press enter
Oct 18 16:20:02 <greenfly> no regular afaik. url for mobile? m.google.com/reader ?
Oct 18 16:20:33 <TechGeek2> cool it worked
Oct 18 16:22:18 <TechGeek2> thansk
Oct 18 16:23:23 <timeless> not reader/m/ ?
Oct 18 16:23:28 <RST38h> You owe about $45US, payable by PayPal
Oct 18 16:23:41 <TechGeek2> ok
Oct 18 16:23:48 <TechGeek2> whats your paypal?
Oct 18 16:23:56 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: Don't forget the bill for damage to your desk, caused by you banging your head on it.
Oct 18 16:24:16 * timeless nods
Oct 18 16:24:19 <lcuk> the accelerometer will detect how hard and automatically display the damages
Oct 18 16:24:26 <greenfly> timeless: google says m. but that's not working for me either. anyway i want to use the regular version
Oct 18 16:24:27 <timeless> what about pain and suffering?
Oct 18 16:24:30 * javispedro considers patenting lcuk's idea
Oct 18 16:25:10 * lcuk hopes the patent certificate gives javispedro a nasty paper cut
Oct 18 16:25:12 <TechGeek2> now i'm trying to put apple OS on it
Oct 18 16:25:17 <javispedro> qwerty12_N810: so, did you see any 3d buildings or should I go to U.K. to retrieve the N900 you just threw out of the window?
Oct 18 16:25:18 <TechGeek2> theres a guide and it's easy
Oct 18 16:25:37 <TechGeek2> i just have to run 220 volts through it while the flash is on the card and its hacked
Oct 18 16:25:46 <lcuk> nahhh thats the hard way
Oct 18 16:25:52 <lcuk> just ask steve jobs directly
Oct 18 16:25:53 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: I can't even see any in Helsinki, to tell you the truth.
Oct 18 16:25:56 <greenfly> timeless: your way works, but ideally i could use the full version
Oct 18 16:25:57 <lcuk> he emailed it to me last time
Oct 18 16:27:25 <pupnik_> gah i need aseperate consciousness to folow this chan
Oct 18 16:28:14 <glass__> in movies people rarely have good syncronastion between different consciousnesses
Oct 18 16:28:26 <lcuk> thats because you can do a fuzzy wipe
Oct 18 16:28:26 <glass__> syncronasation
Oct 18 16:28:31 <pupnik_> do we have camera (video) exposed as a v4l2 device?
Oct 18 16:28:36 <GAN900> Yes
Oct 18 16:29:02 * javispedro wonders if flash lite can use it then
Oct 18 16:29:04 <pupnik_> is it raw or mpegged>?
Oct 18 16:29:16 <pupnik_> want to show people stream from mn900 while in irc
Oct 18 16:29:27 <pupnik_> one button and they get a link to device pasted in chan or pm
Oct 18 16:29:48 <BBNS_> pupnik_, it's raw in YUY2.
Oct 18 16:29:49 <pupnik_> im a dreamer, man
Oct 18 16:30:03 <pupnik_> ok good enough fo a start
Oct 18 16:30:32 <pupnik_> now if someone were to write a kernel mod to expose a HW-encoded mpeg4 stream
Oct 18 16:30:39 <lcuk> gstreamer
Oct 18 16:30:48 <pupnik_> ok or tha
Oct 18 16:30:53 <lcuk> if hw encoding is supported it can be used
Oct 18 16:31:00 <BBNS_> better try omap3camsrc rather than v4l2src, one has auto-exposure, the other does not.
Oct 18 16:31:02 <javispedro> gst should use hw encoding
Oct 18 16:31:13 <lcuk> BBNS_, mmm
Oct 18 16:31:14 <javispedro> i don't think the device itself is capable of encoding h264 at 800x484
Oct 18 16:31:23 <pupnik_> ty for the pointers BBNS_ are you aware of existignn projects to do thiis?
Oct 18 16:31:43 <lcuk> awww crap ive lost my device
Oct 18 16:31:43 <pupnik_> lower res would be fine given peoples slow upstreams on DSL
Oct 18 16:31:48 <BBNS_> lcuk, try gst-inspect you will see two cam source
Oct 18 16:32:00 <BBNS_> pupnik_, what kind of proj?
Oct 18 16:32:02 <lcuk> <lcuk> awww crap ive lost my device
Oct 18 16:32:12 <Stskeeps> lcuk: wtf, where? :P
Oct 18 16:32:12 * javispedro plays with lcuk's lost device
Oct 18 16:32:21 <pupnik_> to integrate "stream now" into maemo 5 somehow
Oct 18 16:32:23 <lcuk> somewhere in my room
Oct 18 16:32:30 <javispedro> well, ring it.
Oct 18 16:32:35 <javispedro> it's a phone isn't it
Oct 18 16:32:36 <pupnik_> not sitting off on the side as somem funky toy app
Oct 18 16:32:43 <frals> lcuk: this is when you ssh in and start playing a tune on it
Oct 18 16:32:43 <lcuk> ive got one of them, but my dev one is MIA
Oct 18 16:32:49 <BBNS_> pupnik_, not sure. o_o
Oct 18 16:32:49 <frals> .. or call it like javispedro said, doh!
Oct 18 16:32:57 <lcuk> and its the one without charge, or sim
Oct 18 16:33:07 <BBNS_> pupnik_, at least i did not aware any now. perhaps i might miss it.
Oct 18 16:33:08 <lcuk> i have one in front of me
Oct 18 16:33:13 <lcuk> thats on and working
Oct 18 16:33:31 <qwerty12_N810> The fugly one?
Oct 18 16:33:35 <lcuk> but ahhh put it in its charging hole
Oct 18 16:33:40 <lcuk> just without charger plugged in
Oct 18 16:33:51 <javispedro> charging hole lol
Oct 18 16:33:52 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: 'come and completely tidy my house, and if you find a n900, it's yours'.
Oct 18 16:34:00 <lcuk> lol
Oct 18 16:34:14 <lcuk> javispedro, i dont leave them on the desk
Oct 18 16:34:29 <lcuk> the kids and missus have a nasty habit of dropping stuff ontop of things
Oct 18 16:34:45 <lcuk> so theres a little charging home for them :)
Oct 18 16:35:09 <lcuk> tracy once sat on the internet with elbows idly in the desk
Oct 18 16:35:16 <lcuk> shame my n810 was under one of her elbows
Oct 18 16:35:44 <BBNS_> pupnik_, you can even have autofocus in omap3src by the way. i guess that's in photo interface ... couldn't recall -.-
Oct 18 16:35:49 <javispedro> true.
Oct 18 16:36:00 <lcuk> BBNS_, lardman was looking for autofocus
Oct 18 16:36:07 <lcuk> that info will be most useful for him
Oct 18 16:36:23 <BBNS_> lcuk, he is hmm afk atm.
Oct 18 16:36:35 <lcuk> yeah ill let him know
Oct 18 16:36:50 <lcuk> we really need the whole interface documented at some point
Oct 18 16:37:32 <BBNS_> lcuk, i did reverse engineering ... that's how i found the usage.
Oct 18 16:37:37 <lcuk> cool tho
Oct 18 16:37:57 <lcuk> do you notice any other differences with the v4l and omap3
Oct 18 16:38:04 <SpeedEvil> Can you do manual focus?
Oct 18 16:38:15 <BBNS_> SpeedEvil, you can.
Oct 18 16:38:28 <BBNS_> SpeedEvil, um sorry let me correct
Oct 18 16:38:33 <lcuk> tilt/shift photo maker!
Oct 18 16:38:41 <BBNS_> SpeedEvil, af has to be triggered by user space.
Oct 18 16:38:46 <lcuk> or whatever its called
Oct 18 16:38:59 <SpeedEvil> BBNS_: you can do manual focus - or just turn AF off?
Oct 18 16:39:15 <BBNS_> since af won't run all the time. otherwise the camera motor will break soon.
Oct 18 16:39:22 <BBNS_> SpeedEvil, turn AF on and off.
Oct 18 16:39:26 <pupnik_> Camera app needs to get UI out of the way while adjusting exposure/white balance - BADLY
Oct 18 16:39:41 <SpeedEvil> BBNS_: it depends on the sort
Oct 18 16:39:49 <BBNS_> SpeedEvil, but camera photo interface header has lots of things you could play thing
Oct 18 16:39:50 <pupnik_> Do not dim the camera preview area.  Get butonns out of viewefield if possible.
Oct 18 16:39:53 <SpeedEvil> BBNS_: many that I've seen have essentially infinite lifes.
Oct 18 16:40:04 <SpeedEvil> BBNS_: for example solenoid based AF
Oct 18 16:40:15 <lcuk> where do i get gst-inspect from
Oct 18 16:40:15 <SpeedEvil> but, yes
Oct 18 16:40:37 <BBNS_> SpeedEvil, perhaps you could write your own photo interface plug-in in gstreamer
Oct 18 16:41:06 <BBNS_> SpeedEvil, not sure how you could do it. because it has to be done on TI chip side. the dsp part.
Oct 18 16:41:30 <SpeedEvil> BBNS_: I'm more meaning - you're taking a video through a window with some rain on it forex.
Oct 18 16:41:46 <SpeedEvil> BBNS_: you do not want it bouncing back and forth between focussing on the rain and the outside
Oct 18 16:42:06 <SpeedEvil> So manual would be nice
Oct 18 16:42:09 <BBNS_> lcuk, sorry back to your question. there are many differences in v4l and omap3. one instance is that omap3 will stream camera through omap image processing chip.
Oct 18 16:42:24 <lcuk> :) neat
Oct 18 16:42:42 <lcuk> is there a way to get the preview stream through to user apps do you think
Oct 18 16:42:43 <BBNS_> SpeedEvil, you can only autofocus once. that's one trigger. it won't bounce back and forth.
Oct 18 16:42:59 <BBNS_> lcuk, i think so.
Oct 18 16:43:45 <BBNS_> lcuk, write a typical camera streaming program (one example is example-camera.c sample code). just replace v4l2src to omap3camsrc
Oct 18 16:44:21 <BBNS_> lcuk, that's all you need to do. further application, such as advance photo interface, you have to dig through the headers.
Oct 18 16:45:31 <BBNS_> um ... i forgot how to check fremantle repos ... -.-
Oct 18 16:45:48 <BBNS_> need to check the package name of photo interface...
Oct 18 16:46:24 <TechGeek2> does this look ok? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=350415#post350415
Oct 18 16:46:48 <lcuk> BBNS_, thanks im just seeing now if it makes a difference :)
Oct 18 16:47:22 <BBNS_> lcuk, you can point your device outside the window ... you will see the differences immediately.
Oct 18 16:47:44 <BBNS_> lcuk, it will do auto-exposure / whitebalance.
Oct 18 16:47:49 <lcuk> BBNS_, im interested in detecting targets
Oct 18 16:47:56 <lcuk> black/white bullseyes
Oct 18 16:48:03 <lcuk> ive got it working
Oct 18 16:48:05 <dotblank> hmm.... any of you tried packet injection with the wifi?
Oct 18 16:48:05 <lcuk> but focus is off
Oct 18 16:48:12 <BBNS_> lcuk, like face detection you mean?
Oct 18 16:48:19 <lcuk> no, black/white targets
Oct 18 16:48:34 <BBNS_> lcuk, you have written a algorithm for that?
Oct 18 16:48:40 <lcuk> yeah
Oct 18 16:48:49 <lcuk> its similar to barcode boundary detection
Oct 18 16:49:00 <vasily_pupkin> help plz :)
Oct 18 16:49:14 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: for wii-like?
Oct 18 16:49:21 <vasily_pupkin> very very need original cx3110x.ko right now
Oct 18 16:49:22 <BBNS_> lcuk, i am checking the photo package that contains af now ...
Oct 18 16:49:28 <lcuk> ages ago whilst talking to lardman, i made a simple detector for 1d barcodes which would identify the outer bounary and guardbars
Oct 18 16:49:30 <BBNS_> lcuk, then you can just pull the header
Oct 18 16:49:58 <lcuk> i didnt need the barcodes themselves, i just wanted to know whether one was infront of cam
Oct 18 16:50:21 <lcuk> usb charging of one of my devices is not enough juice to keep it alive
Oct 18 16:50:23 <lcuk> damn
Oct 18 16:50:27 <vasily_pupkin> anybody with n810 here?
Oct 18 16:50:28 <BBNS_> lcuk, can i pull gst-plugins-bad from scratchbox?
Oct 18 16:50:39 <BBNS_> *can you?
Oct 18 16:50:49 <lcuk> ill try
Oct 18 16:50:58 <BBNS_> lcuk, that's the one contains photo
Oct 18 16:50:59 <lcuk> once im rebooted
Oct 18 16:51:16 <lcuk> hang on tho
Oct 18 16:51:21 <RST38h> vasily: yes what?
Oct 18 16:52:08 <vasily_pupkin> upload plz /lib/modules/current/cx3110x.ko somewhere
Oct 18 16:52:44 <lcuk> BBNS_, i did this ages ago http://liqbase.net/liq.20081026_204523.gary.cam.png
Oct 18 16:52:54 <vasily_pupkin> i replace original with supplicant one, and im  not at home
Oct 18 16:53:16 <BBNS_> lcuk, ah nice.
Oct 18 16:53:20 <lcuk> i just adapted it to work with a proper bullseye target
Oct 18 16:53:27 <BBNS_> lcuk, you are using opencv for thresholding?
Oct 18 16:53:37 <lcuk> no, raw data and ints
Oct 18 16:53:50 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: 2d fft?
Oct 18 16:53:53 <lcuk> its rapid
Oct 18 16:53:55 <lcuk> no
Oct 18 16:53:59 <BBNS_> lcuk, probably you wanna try opencv. it offers better algorithm and easier.
Oct 18 16:54:06 <lcuk> just "oh look, im on a greyscale portion of image
Oct 18 16:54:14 <lcuk> and theres a pair of white borders
Oct 18 16:54:18 <lcuk> with grey inbetween
Oct 18 16:54:31 <lcuk> and then i stretch that data out to the 1d barcode length
Oct 18 16:54:37 <lcuk> and fill in the bits
Oct 18 16:54:42 <BBNS_> i see. but in some cases, for instance the bg color is close to the barcode
Oct 18 16:54:53 <BBNS_> you will run into trouble.
Oct 18 16:54:55 <lcuk> oh, it normalizes to itself
Oct 18 16:55:15 <lcuk> within the range it spreads
Oct 18 16:55:19 <BBNS_> ok.
Oct 18 16:55:19 <SpeedEvil> And barcodes can be non white
Oct 18 16:55:30 <lcuk> not the ones i wanted to try
Oct 18 16:55:46 <lcuk> i just wanted to see the problems with it
Oct 18 16:55:48 <BBNS_> but i found opencv is easier and it provides adaptive thresholding against different illumination.
Oct 18 16:56:04 <lcuk> it might be easier, but is it fast enough
Oct 18 16:56:18 <Stskeeps> on intel hw it is quite fast..
Oct 18 16:56:19 <BBNS_> lcuk, if you check gst/camerabin
Oct 18 16:56:31 <lcuk> Stskeeps, but we arent on intel hw
Oct 18 16:56:33 <BBNS_> lcuk, that's the backend code for camera picture capturing ...
Oct 18 16:56:55 <BBNS_> lcuk, and in some line of codes, it tells how to do af and various kinds of stuff ...
Oct 18 16:57:02 <lcuk> cool
Oct 18 16:57:08 <lcuk> thats what lardman will need :)
Oct 18 16:57:14 <BBNS_> lcuk, like different shutter mode / micro-range focus ...
Oct 18 16:57:28 <SpeedEvil> Is htere a flash?
Oct 18 16:57:36 <lcuk> yeah
Oct 18 16:57:42 <vasily_pupkin> RST38h: ping
Oct 18 16:58:51 <BBNS_> lcuk, strange is maemo team did not document these things ...
Oct 18 16:59:34 <BBNS_> lcuk, when the code is sitting out there and has to let people dig them up.
Oct 18 16:59:47 * lcuk nods
Oct 18 16:59:58 <lcuk> i think everyone was just rushed totally
Oct 18 17:00:22 <vasily_pupkin> anybody have n810?
Oct 18 17:01:06 <BBNS_> lcuk, true. nokia should hire a document engineer, just do documentation like Apple.
Oct 18 17:01:17 <lcuk> indeed
Oct 18 17:01:30 <lcuk> putting people with specific skills in the right place is mega important
Oct 18 17:01:43 <lcuk> for everything in life
Oct 18 17:01:58 <BBNS_> maemo team has lots of awesome hackers. =p but i guess they are too smart and don't need document.
Oct 18 17:02:47 <javispedro> they are doing qt creator for maemo btw.
Oct 18 17:03:02 <javispedro> just noticed some references to it while wandering through qt creator source.
Oct 18 17:03:33 <BBNS_> javispedro, yep. the latest git head already added the code. haven't tested it.
Oct 18 17:03:45 <BBNS_> javispedro, there is symbian too.
Oct 18 17:03:54 <javispedro> yeah, but symbian got a beta released already.
Oct 18 17:04:02 <BBNS_> i see.
Oct 18 17:04:09 <pupnik_> yes vasily_pupkin many of us do
Oct 18 17:04:17 <BBNS_> that's a good news for me. throwing away horrible carbide ...
Oct 18 17:04:44 <konttori_> BBNS_: perhaps you could start a wiki page in maemo.org and should aloud for the documentation on the mailinglist
Oct 18 17:05:14 <vasily_pupkin> anybody,upload cx3110x.ko anywhere pleeeeze
Oct 18 17:05:22 <BBNS_> konttori_, o.o you mean documentation proposal?
Oct 18 17:05:30 <lcuk> hell yeah!
Oct 18 17:06:10 <RurouniJones> Possibly a strange question but has anyone created a life-size printable layout of the N900 interface? I want to draw some application interface mockups while I am stuck on a train.
Oct 18 17:06:29 <BBNS_> by the way, i have wondered who did the documentation for fremantle SDK on wiki? o.o
Oct 18 17:06:46 <pupnik_> vasily_pupkin: if you have a license, it should be extractable from the maemo OS image provided by nokia
Oct 18 17:07:12 <pupnik_> at least one would expect so
Oct 18 17:07:32 <lcuk> BBNS_, could not create pipeline elements for the omap3 source
Oct 18 17:07:36 <vasily_pupkin> im not home now
Oct 18 17:08:05 <konttori_> i thought you were looking for camera documentation
Oct 18 17:08:21 <qwerty12_N810> cx3110.ko can be shared without any legal repercussions (unlike umac.ko). I'd share it, but I have the wpa_supplicant one installed.
Oct 18 17:08:26 <lcuk> RurouniJones, are  you on n900 itself
Oct 18 17:08:30 <BBNS_> lcuk, what's the error? :Q
Oct 18 17:08:53 <RurouniJones> lcuk: What do you mean? I do not have an N900 if that is what you are asking.
Oct 18 17:09:13 <lcuk> RurouniJones, on your n8x0 install liqbase :)
Oct 18 17:09:21 <lcuk> i use it to draw interface stuff directly
Oct 18 17:09:38 <BBNS_> konttori_, =P oh that's lcuk.
Oct 18 17:09:40 <RurouniJones> I do not have any Nxxx devices.
Oct 18 17:09:54 <lcuk> ahhh
Oct 18 17:10:00 <lcuk> then just draw pretty pictures
Oct 18 17:10:30 <RurouniJones> Yes...that is my plan, I was wondering if anyone before me had had the same idea and made some printable templates...
Oct 18 17:10:37 <BBNS_> konttori_, i already pointed to lcuk the camera header. =P
Oct 18 17:11:21 <BBNS_> lcuk, 0.0 you need to give me the error message otherwise i couldn't help you debug.
Oct 18 17:11:35 <lcuk> hold on then, i dont do more than:
Oct 18 17:11:36 <lcuk> 	camera_src   = gst_element_factory_make(VIDEO_SRC,          "camera_src");
Oct 18 17:11:36 <lcuk> 	csp_filter   = gst_element_factory_make("ffmpegcolorspace", "csp_filter");
Oct 18 17:11:36 <lcuk> 	image_sink   = gst_element_factory_make("fakesink",         "image_sink");
Oct 18 17:11:36 <lcuk> 	if(!(CAMpipeline && camera_src && csp_filter && image_sink))
Oct 18 17:11:36 <lcuk> 	{
Oct 18 17:11:38 <lcuk> 		liqapp_warnandcontinue(-1,"liqcamera : Couldn't create pipeline elements");
Oct 18 17:11:40 <lcuk> 		return -1;
Oct 18 17:11:42 <lcuk> 	}
Oct 18 17:11:44 <lcuk> ooops too many
Oct 18 17:11:57 <lcuk> with the omap3 SRC it fails
Oct 18 17:12:02 <BBNS_> lcuk, so VIDEO_SRC is omap3camsrc ?
Oct 18 17:12:02 <lcuk> with the v4l it works
Oct 18 17:12:06 <lcuk> yeah
Oct 18 17:12:21 <BBNS_> hmmm let me check ...
Oct 18 17:13:21 <BBNS_> crap -.- my code is at company ... let me try to conjure it ...
Oct 18 17:13:43 <lcuk> heh
Oct 18 17:13:51 <GAN900> andre__, ping?
Oct 18 17:14:51 <lcuk> i have to go food for a little bit.  ill add some specific error checking to that when i get back
Oct 18 17:14:58 <BBNS_> lcuk, oh it's omap3cam
Oct 18 17:15:19 <BBNS_> lcuk, not s/omap3camsrc/omap3cam
Oct 18 17:15:34 <BBNS_> lcuk, replace omap3camsrc with omap3cam that is.
Oct 18 17:15:57 <lardman> re
Oct 18 17:16:16 <BBNS_> lardman, lcuk said you need af code for camera?
Oct 18 17:16:24 <lardman> yeah if pos
Oct 18 17:16:34 <lardman> what have you dug up?
Oct 18 17:16:37 <Proteous> up up down down left right left right a b b a
Oct 18 17:16:39 <BBNS_> lardman, check the conversation i have with lcuk.
Oct 18 17:16:57 <BBNS_> lardman, just pull gst-plugins-bad
Oct 18 17:17:04 <BBNS_> and look into camerabin ...
Oct 18 17:17:07 <lardman> gst/camerabin ?
Oct 18 17:17:10 <BBNS_> yep
Oct 18 17:17:17 <lardman> right
Oct 18 17:17:19 <BBNS_> that's camera capture backend.
Oct 18 17:17:32 <lardman> I need to split mbarcode to make some device-specific camera code
Oct 18 17:17:35 <BBNS_> and check the photopart. grep autofocus
Oct 18 17:17:42 <lardman> ok, thanks
Oct 18 17:19:15 <BBNS_> lardman, try to find <gst/interfaces/photography.h>
Oct 18 17:19:27 <BBNS_> lardman, i forgot which package has it.
Oct 18 17:19:56 <lardman> np, I was looking at it a few weeks back
Oct 18 17:20:00 <lardman> I'll find it again
Oct 18 17:20:23 <BBNS_> lardman, nvm ... i can look up the code how i have written. simply tell you the answer to save you time.
Oct 18 17:21:06 <BBNS_> lardman, it's gst_photography_set_autofocus
Oct 18 17:21:20 <lardman> can you post the source, would be useful to see?
Oct 18 17:21:40 <BBNS_> lardman, i am nokia employee ... can't give you the source. that's nokia code.
Oct 18 17:22:12 <BBNS_> lardman, but this interface is nothing to do with NDA. you can dig it up in the pool. that's why i can tell you.
Oct 18 17:22:14 <GAN900> I don't know how MicroB's text rendering could make zooming anymore useless.
Oct 18 17:23:22 <BBNS_> by the way, i am not in maemo team. i am from NRC. so i don't know what maemo team is doing. i hack the code by myself.
Oct 18 17:24:50 <BBNS_> the usage is gst_photography_set_autofocus(GST_PHOTOGRAPHY(cameraSrc), TRUE)
Oct 18 17:25:52 <lardman> BBNS_: np & thanks
Oct 18 17:26:11 <BBNS_> lardman, if you want to hack more regarding to camera source by itself, i.e. omap3 image processing, gstreamer0.10-plugins-camera has the code.
Oct 18 17:26:45 <lardman> not going to have time to do any image processing for a week or two, but certainly for the barcode stuff
Oct 18 17:26:47 <lardman> thanks
Oct 18 17:27:11 <BBNS_> barcode i recommend to use opencv to save you some energy.
Oct 18 17:27:25 <BBNS_> it's portable on N900.
Oct 18 17:27:40 <lardman> yes looks cool, but for barcode stuff the code is already written so no need there
Oct 18 17:27:49 <BBNS_> i see.
Oct 18 17:27:58 <lardman> but for things like smile/blink recog, that would be interesting
Oct 18 17:28:13 <Jason404> .
Oct 18 17:28:18 <BBNS_> you can do detection and tracking.
Oct 18 17:28:43 <Jason404> Is it possible to run Symbian apps on Maemo?  I remember someone saying it was/will be possible?
Oct 18 17:28:56 <javispedro> no.
Oct 18 17:29:05 <Jason404> :(
Oct 18 17:29:21 <BBNS_> Jason404, if it's openC, yes. Not the one with Symbian UI.
Oct 18 17:29:24 <lubomir> hello
Oct 18 17:29:28 <qwerty12_N810> You probably heard it was possible from one of those blogs, whose sole purpose is to spread shit.
Oct 18 17:29:39 <lubomir> is it possible to put debian or any other OS on the Nokia 770?
Oct 18 17:30:42 <Stskeeps> lubomir: yes, it's open*
Oct 18 17:30:57 * BBNS_ wonder what he is doing ... it's sunday! not enough hacking / coding during week days?! -.-
Oct 18 17:31:01 <lubomir> Stskeeps, have you a link to an example?
Oct 18 17:31:06 <Jason404> BBNS: the reason I would really like to is that I hve heard that MS Office Mobile will be made for Symbian.  Being able to run Outlook and OneNote Mobile would be absolutely fantastic for me
Oct 18 17:31:10 <Stskeeps> lubomir: wiki.maemo.org/Mer :P
Oct 18 17:31:19 <Stskeeps> BBNS_: coding is addictive.
Oct 18 17:31:19 <Jason404> as well as Word and Excel
Oct 18 17:31:48 <javispedro> Jason404: MS Office Mobile? more like MS Office "Live" (aka web/shit edition)
Oct 18 17:31:49 <Jason404> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/170080/microsoft_nokia_team_to_put_office_apps_on_mobile_phones.html
Oct 18 17:31:50 <BBNS_> Stskeeps, not if you are coding 10 hours every day every week ...
Oct 18 17:32:05 <Jason404> no, javispedro.  see that link
Oct 18 17:32:18 <Stskeeps> BBNS_: well, 40 hours per week, but close enough :P
Oct 18 17:32:52 <javispedro> I'm pretty sure it will be web stuff.
Oct 18 17:33:01 <Solarion> BBNS_: well, that sucked
Oct 18 17:33:01 <Jason404> javispedro:  the web versions of Word and Excel are pretty good actully.  I just am not sure that they will run well on the N900
Oct 18 17:33:08 <Solarion> ugh. Stupid Cox
Oct 18 17:33:09 <Jason404> no, read that link.
Oct 18 17:33:09 <lubomir> ah, Mer is working on it? Okay. Thanks Stskeeps .I just asked for someone else ^^
Oct 18 17:33:15 <lubomir> bye @ all
Oct 18 17:33:18 <Solarion> BBNS_: Hello, nokiite. :)
Oct 18 17:33:41 <Solarion> BBNS_: I had typed the "BBNS_:" right before Cox (my ISP) fell off the net.
Oct 18 17:33:44 <BBNS_> lardman, would you mind documenting the camera or have someone to do it (lcuk) regarding to the camera API, once you have hacked it? =)
Oct 18 17:34:00 <BBNS_> Solarion, i tried to remain low profile ...
Oct 18 17:34:01 <Solarion> BBNS_: do you have anything to do with the cool scribble calculator or whatever it's called?
Oct 18 17:34:25 <Solarion> BBNS_: Ah. Sorry. Hello, fellow hacker. :)
Oct 18 17:34:37 <BBNS_> Solarion, nope. that's the lab in Tampere i guess.
Oct 18 17:34:54 <BBNS_> Solarion, my research is graphics and visions, and software achitecture.
Oct 18 17:34:56 <Solarion> ah, dang. Was woth a shot
Oct 18 17:35:12 <Solarion> BBNS_: Can the n900 handle a 1024x600 display?
Oct 18 17:35:32 * Solarion is arguing with some monkeys on the Harmattan section about higher-res screens. :)
Oct 18 17:35:38 <Jason404> Solaron: It can do 720p I think
Oct 18 17:35:53 <Jason404> so shoudl be able to do that
Oct 18 17:36:12 <javispedro> afaik tv out res is same as lcd: 800x480
Oct 18 17:36:17 <Solarion> Jason404: I mean if it had a larger res screen
Oct 18 17:36:39 <BBNS_> Solarion, larger res means more pixel rendering overhead ...
Oct 18 17:36:43 <javispedro> Solarion: the powervr handles up to 1024x768 iirc.
Oct 18 17:36:47 * Solarion would like to see a higher-res screen in future devices, 'cause reading articles (PDF) on 800x480 is almost, but not quite, doable
Oct 18 17:37:11 <Solarion> javispedro: that's what the TI page was saying. I was about to show 'em when cox fell over
Oct 18 17:37:42 <BBNS_> Solarion, if you want to render an OpenGL ES2 game smoothly, 800x480 is the maximum resolution.
Oct 18 17:38:45 <Jason404> so tht means that it cannot display photos on TV at full res?
Oct 18 17:38:46 <Solarion> BBNS_: on the n900?
Oct 18 17:38:56 <BBNS_> regarding to PVR chip that is. Tegra can handle better though.
Oct 18 17:39:08 <Solarion> what is Tegra?
Oct 18 17:39:11 <Jason404> erm, not full res
Oct 18 17:39:16 <Jason404> you know what I mean
Oct 18 17:39:38 <Solarion> BBNS_: isn't running OpenGL games more a matter of polys/s, tho?
Oct 18 17:39:44 <Solarion> not just bandwidth
Oct 18 17:39:59 <BBNS_> Solarion, bandwidth > polys/s atm.
Oct 18 17:40:10 <Solarion> I suppose it's polys/s@res and I'm stupid.
Oct 18 17:40:19 <Solarion> BBNS_: at what res, tho?
Oct 18 17:40:23 <Solarion> at 1024x780?
Oct 18 17:40:30 <Solarion> or at 800x840
Oct 18 17:40:48 <luke-jr> Jason404: TV full res is 720x480
Oct 18 17:40:49 <Solarion> In addition, couldn't you change res for games if games are bandwidht limited but the rest of it isn't?
Oct 18 17:40:54 <BBNS_> in a word, memory bandwidth is not fast enough to transfer 1024x780 pixels to video buffer.
Oct 18 17:40:55 <luke-jr> Jason404: so if the max is 800x480 you should be fine
Oct 18 17:41:02 <Solarion> luke-jr: Not anymore. (DTV conversion :)
Oct 18 17:41:16 <Solarion> BBNS_: on the n900?
Oct 18 17:41:29 <BBNS_> Solarion, yep. not even iPhone can handle that.
Oct 18 17:41:40 <Solarion> BBNS_: iPhone can hang itself
Oct 18 17:41:47 <Jason404> luke-jr:  TV output res is 720x480???
Oct 18 17:41:57 <Solarion> BBNS_: If I wanted silk-lined handcuffs, I'd use Windows.
Oct 18 17:42:21 <Solarion> Jason404: standard definition
Oct 18 17:42:29 <luke-jr> Jason404: NTSC
Oct 18 17:42:32 <Solarion> I think that's DVD quality
Oct 18 17:42:36 <BBNS_> Solarion, haven't used windows for a long long time.
Oct 18 17:42:50 <Solarion> now that we have the DTV transition, it goes up to 1080i
Oct 18 17:42:58 <luke-jr> Jason404: technically 720x240 @ 59.94 fps if you consider interlacing
Oct 18 17:43:27 <Solarion> BBNS_: but the memory <-> GPU bandwidth on the omap3530 isn't sufficient to run 1024x780, depsite the TI literature
Oct 18 17:43:28 <Jason404> oh ic.  PAL here
Oct 18 17:43:44 <luke-jr> please tell me DTV at least eliminated the NTSC/PAL differences
Oct 18 17:43:51 <BBNS_> Solarion, that's what i am trying to talk about.
Oct 18 17:44:25 <BBNS_> Solarion, anyway, the developers haven't juiced up OpenGL ES2 yet.
Oct 18 17:44:36 <lcuk> BBNS_, which area of imaging do you work in then
Oct 18 17:44:50 <BBNS_> there is only one OpenGL ES2 game on iPhone 3GS, make me disappointed.
Oct 18 17:45:11 <luke-jr> Jason404: PAL is 720x576
Oct 18 17:45:17 <javispedro> how could one make a es2 game on iPhone? it would break apple's dream of "even the old phones get the updates"
Oct 18 17:45:23 <BBNS_> lcuk, tracking / object recognition / graphics and game development
Oct 18 17:45:39 <lcuk> kewl
Oct 18 17:45:47 <BBNS_> lcuk, but i am not as a good hacker as you. your library is amazing.
Oct 18 17:45:49 <Jason404> luke-jr:  yeah I remember the differences from when I had an Amiga, and US games were all squashed up
Oct 18 17:46:00 <lcuk> hence you perking at me speaking of detecting bullseyes lol
Oct 18 17:46:01 <luke-jr> lol
Oct 18 17:46:25 <BBNS_> lcuk, our office really likes your onedotzero demo.
Oct 18 17:46:36 <lcuk> BBNS_, amazing in some ways, they need picking into normal usage
Oct 18 17:47:13 <BBNS_> lcuk, true. that's what nokia trying to steer community to do. to produce more useful apps for mass market.
Oct 18 17:47:22 <lcuk> well the n900 side of onedotzero was just opitimization and communication, karsten did the really hard work on big pc
Oct 18 17:47:54 <konttori_> javispedro: you know, most of the n900:s will not have arrow keys
Oct 18 17:47:59 <Solarion> what is onedotzeo?
Oct 18 17:48:00 <BBNS_> lcuk, it's already amazing enough. very smooth experience.
Oct 18 17:48:10 <konttori_> so, the only viable control scheme is WASD
Oct 18 17:48:11 <javispedro> konttori_: yes, I know.
Oct 18 17:48:25 <javispedro> wasd is awful for mario kart
Oct 18 17:48:30 <lcuk> http://maemo.nokia.com/videos/onedotzero-adventures-in-motion-powered-by-nokia-n900/
Oct 18 17:48:37 <konttori_> do you think the ab,xy keys could then be IOKL?
Oct 18 17:48:46 <lcuk> BBNS_, yeah - liqflow was why i optimized that side of it ;)
Oct 18 17:49:02 <BBNS_> lcuk, here is my research profile if you are interested: http://research.nokia.com/people/yun-ta_tsai/index.html
Oct 18 17:49:06 <konttori_> javispedro: is wasd any worse than the arrow keys?
Oct 18 17:49:22 <javispedro> konttori_: nope. just worse than the n810 d-pad :(
Oct 18 17:49:23 <BBNS_> lcuk, you used neon?
Oct 18 17:49:33 <lcuk> no bbns, raw c
Oct 18 17:49:38 <konttori_> well, n810s dpad sucked ass.
Oct 18 17:49:39 <lcuk> just optimal and slinky
Oct 18 17:50:12 <BBNS_> lcuk, i see. wonder when gcc will fully utilize neon.
Oct 18 17:50:14 <konttori_> but, then how about the IOKL`
Oct 18 17:50:14 <konttori_> I'm wondering if the wasd setup should just be the default setup for the drnoksnes?
Oct 18 17:50:24 <lcuk> BBNS_, i put my missing summit presentation up online
Oct 18 17:50:25 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo
Oct 18 17:50:29 <javispedro> konttori_: on n900 probably.
Oct 18 17:50:34 <lcuk> it gives a runthrough of some of the things
Oct 18 17:50:41 <lcuk> i had to chop out loads tho
Oct 18 17:50:50 <javispedro> to change it I need the SDL scancodes for each of the keys though.
Oct 18 17:51:01 <lcuk> BBNS_, do you have a linkedin
Oct 18 17:51:08 <RST38h> BBNS: you want 1q2009 toolchain
Oct 18 17:51:17 <RST38h> it should make use of neon, don't know how well
Oct 18 17:51:20 <javispedro> and -fvectorize
Oct 18 17:51:36 <BBNS_> RST38h, i know 1q2009 has OPENMP supported  =) can't wait to replace that.
Oct 18 17:51:48 <BBNS_> lcuk, nice presentation.
Oct 18 17:51:52 <lcuk> found it
Oct 18 17:51:57 <RST38h> javis: what is -fvectorize btw? =)
Oct 18 17:52:08 <BBNS_> lcuk, yep. i do. just typed my name.
Oct 18 17:52:15 <lcuk> BBNS_, heh, its too simple - but it loads the presentation files from vb source directly
Oct 18 17:52:31 <lcuk> and whilst giving the presentation i can breakout into actual liq* modules
Oct 18 17:52:41 <lardman> BBNS_: the camera api is not too bad actually, the devel docs have it pretty well done. Or do you mean the camerabin api?
Oct 18 17:52:49 <lcuk> the paging is wonderful tho :)
Oct 18 17:53:07 <BBNS_> lardman, i mean the wiki page still telling people to use v4l2src =P
Oct 18 17:53:38 <BBNS_> lardman, which should be omap3cam. and it hasn't mentioned how you could do with some advance functions, such as af and whilte-balance...etc
Oct 18 17:53:46 <konttori_> javispedro: aren't the scancodes just wasd and iokl?
Oct 18 17:53:46 <lcuk> bbl again
Oct 18 17:53:55 <lardman> BBNS_: ok, yeah sure
Oct 18 17:54:05 <Jason404> so Symbian apps on Maemo is not possible, and never will be?
Oct 18 17:54:24 <Stskeeps> Jason404: technically you can emulate but i can't see why you
Oct 18 17:54:26 <Stskeeps> d want to
Oct 18 17:54:27 <BBNS_> Jason404, if it is written in Qt / OpenC, that's possible.
Oct 18 17:54:33 <Stskeeps> qt would work, yeah
Oct 18 17:54:39 <Jason404> ic
Oct 18 17:54:55 <javispedro> with a recompile.
Oct 18 17:55:02 <Jason404> I am only concerned about MS Office Mobile.  It would be wonderful
Oct 18 17:55:03 <javispedro> which means, in actual terms, No.
Oct 18 17:55:20 <javispedro> since most Symbian apps you'd be interested in would be closed source either way.
Oct 18 17:55:35 <Jason404> yeh, MS Office mOBILE CERTAINLY WILL BE
Oct 18 17:55:38 <Jason404> oops
Oct 18 17:55:39 <RST38h> javispedro: so what does fvectorize do?
Oct 18 17:55:45 <BBNS_> lardman, thanks for the community effort =P
Oct 18 17:55:46 <RST38h> moo wazd
Oct 18 17:56:01 <wazd_> RST38h: remoo :)
Oct 18 17:56:04 <javispedro> RST38h: add an autovectorization pass.
Oct 18 17:56:25 <RST38h> javis: no I mean in terms understandable to us, the cows?
Oct 18 17:56:30 <lardman> BBNS_: got to remember how to spell now ;p
Oct 18 17:56:56 <lardman> javispedro: vectorise integer operations?
Oct 18 17:57:01 <javispedro> RST38h: cows like me? lol.
Oct 18 17:57:02 <javispedro> yes.
Oct 18 17:57:29 <RST38h> like compute several integer operators at once using those mmx-like instructions?
Oct 18 17:57:30 <javispedro> aka try to convert for loops into equivalent simd instructions, if any.
Oct 18 17:58:19 <RST38h> aha
Oct 18 17:59:15 <Solarion> wish I could afford an n900. :(
Oct 18 17:59:47 <Solarion> does the n900 have an fpu?
Oct 18 18:00:00 <BBNS_> Solarion, fpu v3-lite
Oct 18 18:00:10 <BBNS_> s/fpu/vpu
Oct 18 18:00:10 <Solarion> what is v3-lite?
Oct 18 18:00:15 <lardman> vfp
Oct 18 18:00:16 <crashanddie> version 3, light
Oct 18 18:00:48 <Solarion> so it doesn't use electrons?
Oct 18 18:00:58 <crashanddie> photons
Oct 18 18:00:59 <javispedro> which according to certain pandora benchmarks is nearly as slow as the omap2420 vfp.
Oct 18 18:01:07 <Solarion> wewt
Oct 18 18:01:08 <javispedro> so use neon.
Oct 18 18:01:16 <lardman> 2420 is faster iirc
Oct 18 18:01:28 <lardman> pipelining....
Oct 18 18:01:38 <javispedro> probably, but the 32xx is clocked up
Oct 18 18:02:16 <RST38h> OMAP3 VFP is mainly slapped there for compatibility =)
Oct 18 18:02:19 <javispedro> for any hope of floating point performance you have to use single precision and neon.
Oct 18 18:02:25 <RST38h> They really intend you to use the Neon
Oct 18 18:02:41 <lardman> is slow, should look at neon for libdmtx I think
Oct 18 18:02:44 <javispedro> much like what they did to Jazelle, damn.
Oct 18 18:02:48 <BBNS_> you can use neon with gcc instrinsics.
Oct 18 18:03:06 <BBNS_> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-NEON-Intrinsics.html
Oct 18 18:03:12 <lardman> javispedro: no-one is very interested in that anymore, was cool to hack on though :)
Oct 18 18:03:36 <Stskeeps> lcuk: awkward question, but did you use 320x480 or something resolution on Xv at some point?
Oct 18 18:03:59 * Stskeeps wonders if he can make his Xomap run at lower res
Oct 18 18:04:05 <konttori_> wazd_: New version of theme maker uploaded. https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=36
Oct 18 18:04:11 <javispedro> lardman: yeah, did you see what they did with it in omap3?
Oct 18 18:04:32 <lardman> no, not looked
Oct 18 18:04:35 <lardman> ?
Oct 18 18:04:59 <javispedro> basically, "Jazelle Lite": bxj r12 goes always to ins pointed by r12.
Oct 18 18:05:09 <lardman> hmm
Oct 18 18:05:10 <javispedro> no implementation of any java opcode at all.
Oct 18 18:05:28 <lardman> ah, but that means you can implement a different bytecode doesn't it?
Oct 18 18:05:44 <lardman> or does it do away with the unknown code handler table?
Oct 18 18:05:57 <javispedro> it will call your table for each opcode.
Oct 18 18:06:07 <lardman> ok, so slower, but you can make your own
Oct 18 18:06:15 <javispedro> yeah, but no accelartion
Oct 18 18:06:17 <lardman> would be good for any p-code lang
Oct 18 18:06:19 <lardman> yeah
Oct 18 18:06:45 <javispedro> it's just a supposedly fast dispatch instruction (and I doubt the fast part)
Oct 18 18:07:56 <javispedro> basically, as RST38h, the only thing that's for is so the Sun EJVM doesn't crash.
Oct 18 18:08:04 <javispedro> *as rst said.
Oct 18 18:08:10 <lardman> well is probably a bit faster than having to manually switch, but marginal I guess
Oct 18 18:08:36 <wazd_> konttori_: awesome!
Oct 18 18:10:59 <lardman> was going out of fashion anyway though, I heard jit was faster anyway
Oct 18 18:11:17 <lardman> from somewhere, who knows where
Oct 18 18:11:25 <lardman> supper, bbiab
Oct 18 18:11:27 <RST38h> yea
Oct 18 18:11:33 <javispedro> agreed.
Oct 18 18:11:47 <RST38h> jazelle was said to give about x3 performance wi over interpreted model
Oct 18 18:11:56 <RST38h> s/wi/win
Oct 18 18:12:06 <BBNS_> lcuk, let me know if omap3cam works on your code.
Oct 18 18:12:12 <javispedro> and it gave a bit better results indeed.
Oct 18 18:12:38 <javispedro> but any jit I tried was better, and the memory savings isn't worth fighting for
Oct 18 18:12:41 * BBNS_ afk
Oct 18 18:17:47 <lcuk> Stskeeps, why is that awkward?
Oct 18 18:18:00 <lcuk> xv runs at any resolution and scales dynamically to fullscreen
Oct 18 18:18:08 <lcuk> using hardware
Oct 18 18:18:09 <Stskeeps> k
Oct 18 18:18:18 <lcuk> you goin for iphone emu?
Oct 18 18:18:44 <lcuk> note tho, xv color planes are at half res
Oct 18 18:19:12 <lcuk> so if you make a screen 480*320  you would only get color at 240*160
Oct 18 18:19:34 <Stskeeps> lcuk: nah.. android refugees
Oct 18 18:19:53 <lcuk> well liqbase is similar to android in that respect
Oct 18 18:20:00 <lcuk> it lives in its own app framework lol
Oct 18 18:20:03 <lcuk> away from x11
Oct 18 18:20:48 <netBoss> Hi every one
Oct 18 18:20:57 <netBoss> I'm new in the community
Oct 18 18:21:03 <netBoss> And I use Ubuntu
Oct 18 18:21:26 <netBoss> Is there an Emulator to make Maemo work
Oct 18 18:21:38 <Stskeeps> get the maemo SDK
Oct 18 18:21:45 <lcuk> the maemo 5 sdk allows you to create and build and test things
Oct 18 18:22:00 <netBoss> I saw that
Oct 18 18:22:11 <netBoss> But is there the hole sytem packed
Oct 18 18:22:21 <netBoss> in a ISO or else
Oct 18 18:22:21 <Stskeeps> yes, quite a lot of stuff in it
Oct 18 18:22:25 <Stskeeps> there's a VM
Oct 18 18:22:42 <netBoss> I see, thanks
Oct 18 18:22:53 <netBoss> It's a great system
Oct 18 18:22:56 <netBoss> I like it
Oct 18 18:23:05 <RST38h> OpenVMS strikes back.
Oct 18 18:23:11 <netBoss> I'm hopping to contrebute in it :)
Oct 18 18:23:12 <BBNS_> lcuk, hey, is omap3cam works for you?
Oct 18 18:23:25 <BBNS_> s/works/working
Oct 18 18:23:35 <lcuk> BBNS_, no, i tried and got the same result ill add the reason checking in a min
Oct 18 18:23:42 <lcuk> just waiting for lemon cake lol
Oct 18 18:23:58 <BBNS_> lcuk, it's 'omap3cam' not 'omap3camsrc'.
Oct 18 18:24:15 <lcuk> / BBNS from #maemo irc offered this suggestion
Oct 18 18:24:15 <lcuk> /#define VIDEO_SRC  "omap3camsrc"
Oct 18 18:24:15 <lcuk> #define VIDEO_SRC  "omap3cam"
Oct 18 18:24:28 <lcuk> damn those double slashes lol
Oct 18 18:24:30 <javispedro> netBoss: if you want to experience the UI from a user point of view best way is to test a device though.
Oct 18 18:24:55 <BBNS_> lcuk, mmm should work ...
Oct 18 18:25:12 <lcuk> i tried it on my old one and also on later one
Oct 18 18:25:17 <lcuk> is it a recent recent addition
Oct 18 18:25:25 <lcuk> im a couple of weeks behind
Oct 18 18:25:26 <BBNS_> lcuk, very old addition
Oct 18 18:25:36 <caoticM> Hi, my n810 is having some trubles with the touchscreen. basically the 'pointer' goes apesh*t in certain areas of the screen. Is there an application that can help me detect this areas. a-gps helps a little but if i could graph a dot where the device actually detects the preasure ?
Oct 18 18:25:43 <BBNS_> lcuk, i wrote the code like half a year back.
Oct 18 18:26:11 <lcuk> yikes
Oct 18 18:26:17 <lcuk> lemme try and get gst-inspect on
Oct 18 18:26:30 <BBNS_> lcuk, oh sorry
Oct 18 18:26:36 <BBNS_> lcuk, i made a mistake
Oct 18 18:26:43 <BBNS_> lcuk, here is code snippest
Oct 18 18:27:48 <netBoss> javispedro, I'm going to bay the N900, and befor that I must test the system,
Oct 18 18:28:04 <BBNS_> m_pCamSrc = gst_element_factory_make("v4l2camsrc", "camera_src");
Oct 18 18:28:04 <lcuk> caotic, check the gutter around the edge of the screen for any grit or dirt, and check for any scratches around
Oct 18 18:28:14 <lcuk> you mightv damaged your screen if its seriously errative
Oct 18 18:28:15 <netBoss> cause if he isn't good ( and he is greater that I thoght ) I'll install Ubuntu Mobile Edition
Oct 18 18:28:25 <javispedro> netBoss: if you're a dev then you will understand what the SDK is and what their limitations are. if you're a user then you'll be deceived.
Oct 18 18:28:25 <lcuk> just try opening sketch app and drawing a grid
Oct 18 18:28:35 <BBNS_> g_object_set(G_OBJECT(m_pCamSrc), "driver-name", "omap3cam", NULL);
Oct 18 18:28:39 <lcuk> then upload the grid as a pic
Oct 18 18:28:42 <Stskeeps> netBoss: maemo5 > ubuntu mobile edition, tbh :P
Oct 18 18:28:53 <netBoss> javispedro, I'm a developper
Oct 18 18:29:07 <BBNS_> lcuk, so you need to set the driver name. =P omap3cam is not the gstreamer source.
Oct 18 18:29:12 <javispedro> netBoss: ok, then. good luck :)
Oct 18 18:29:20 <netBoss> thanks
Oct 18 18:29:38 <BBNS_> lcuk, you can check the source in gstreamer0.10-plugins-camera.
Oct 18 18:29:42 <javispedro> (just that I shrug at the idea of users "testing" the N900 on the sbox sdk, with the blue colors bug, software rendering, etc.)
Oct 18 18:30:17 <BBNS_> lcuk, you got the full picture?
Oct 18 18:30:55 <caoticM> lcuk: the annomallies are near the close buttons and the buttom center of the screen. the drawing app has interface elements (close button, and drawing tools) so i cannot draw over them
Oct 18 18:31:02 <lbt> jeremiah: ping
Oct 18 18:31:36 <lcuk> not really BBNS_ im just grabbing the gst plugins camera now
Oct 18 18:31:42 <lcuk> and will have a look
Oct 18 18:31:51 <BBNS_> lcuk, replace your code like this:
Oct 18 18:32:10 <BBNS_> #define VIDEO_SRC  "v4l2camsrc"
Oct 18 18:32:31 <RST38h> javis: Wait until someone writes a review based on that
Oct 18 18:32:42 <BBNS_> and add one line: g_object_set(G_OBJECT(camera_src), "driver-name", "omap3cam", NULL);
Oct 18 18:32:45 <javispedro> RST38h: i am having nightmares already.
Oct 18 18:33:12 <lcuk> ahhhhh
Oct 18 18:33:34 <BBNS_> camera_src   = gst_element_factory_make(VIDEO_SRC,          "camera_src");  g_object_set(G_OBJECT(camera_src), "driver-name", "omap3cam", NULL);
Oct 18 18:33:38 <BBNS_> that's all.
Oct 18 18:33:50 <BBNS_> got it?
Oct 18 18:34:37 <lcuk> yeah just testing now thx
Oct 18 18:35:39 <BBNS_> =P you can do more funny stuff with omap3cam ... gst-plugins-camera has all source of the driver i think.
Oct 18 18:36:46 <konttori_> wazd_: whatte! cool, seems to also work in linux (1.2.4 of theme maker I mean), with a bit of a trick.
Oct 18 18:37:37 <konttori_> the vm allocation I had set was not enough to actually run some of the post processing commands, so once you make a theme with theme maker, you need close it again and reopen and then click on the make debian
Oct 18 18:37:56 <konttori_> in next version, I'll tune the shell script to have big enough mem allocation
Oct 18 18:39:15 * timeless_mbp looks around
Oct 18 18:41:21 <Solarion> wonder if cox is done sucking yet
Oct 18 18:41:43 <qwerty12_N810> In Soviet Russia, Cox sucks you
Oct 18 18:42:05 <javispedro> Are software developers naturally weird? The answer, a few posts above this one.
Oct 18 18:44:11 <Solarion> q	aa
Maigc 8 Ball says no.
Oct 18 18:45:44 <BBNS_> lcuk, =P does it compile?
Oct 18 18:46:44 <lcuk> that part compiles and shows cam as the original one did, im just wondering whether AF should be operation
Oct 18 18:47:05 <BBNS_> lcuk, af is not in operation unless you call the function
Oct 18 18:47:52 <BBNS_> gst_photography_set_autofocus(GST_PHOTOGRAPHY(camera_src), TRUE)
Oct 18 18:48:03 <lcuk> ahh so opening it with the v4l, changing the driver, then enabling the fn cool
Oct 18 18:48:28 <BBNS_> otherwise by default the focus will set to infinity. to save battery.
Oct 18 18:48:33 <BBNS_> lcuk, yep. correct
Oct 18 18:48:46 <Krooks> is Nokia dumping symbian for maemo ?
Oct 18 18:48:58 <Krooks> Will they do that ?
Oct 18 18:49:14 <BBNS_> Krooks, nope.
Oct 18 18:49:21 <lcuk> seems highly unlikely
Oct 18 18:49:58 <Krooks> but if maemo can do all that symbian can do, then why not ?
Oct 18 18:51:07 <javispedro> because, at least for the moment, maemo can't do all that symbian can do.
Oct 18 18:51:16 <lcuk> because common sense say you dont just abandon user base
Oct 18 18:51:59 <BBNS_> Krooks, at some circumstances, especially developing country like Africa, Symbian is better.
Oct 18 18:52:53 <BBNS_> or rural area that is.
Oct 18 18:53:02 <lardman> hmm, thanks BBNS_
Oct 18 18:53:15 <BBNS_> lardman, it works?
Oct 18 18:53:15 <wazd_> can anybody please download this file and send it to me? :) http://depositfiles.com/ru/files/7iu1fker6
Oct 18 18:53:50 <wazd> Cause df tells me that I'm already downloading it
Oct 18 18:54:00 <lardman> dunno yet, am working on map app, will go and test in a bit
Oct 18 18:54:29 <lardman> at least it appears I don't need to change the current pipeline too much, just add in a few extra lines that I can hide with an #ifdef
Oct 18 18:54:32 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: What's your e-mail?
Oct 18 18:54:38 <BBNS_> lardman, ah ok. you could find me @ talk anyway.
Oct 18 18:54:51 <BBNS_> lardman, nope. you don't need to change at all. just change the driver-name.
Oct 18 18:55:02 <konttori_> wazd: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2009/10/theme-maker-124-released.html
Oct 18 18:55:24 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: drew.zhilin@gmail.com
Oct 18 18:55:42 <konttori_> Krooks: symbian is also running better on lower specced devices than maemo
Oct 18 18:55:47 <wazd> konttori_: downloading it right now!
Oct 18 18:56:05 <lcuk> konttori_, has anyone tried to run symbian on n900 hardware?
Oct 18 18:56:11 <lardman> BBNS_: good stuff, well I'm on Talk and generally on here every day too
Oct 18 18:56:16 <lardman> will try to test that later this evening
Oct 18 18:56:23 <Krooks> konttori_: I see.
Oct 18 18:57:01 <konttori_> lcuk: I haven't heard
Oct 18 18:57:05 <Krooks> konttori_: doesn't look like maemo will scale down even further ?
Oct 18 18:57:27 <konttori_> well, omap 2 maemo 4 was running pretty ok
Oct 18 18:57:31 <lcuk> it would be good to find out how to run fremantle on lower spec hardware
Oct 18 18:57:42 <lcuk> or rather lower res
Oct 18 18:57:54 <konttori_> but the way we are looking on maemo 6, really expects quite a lot from hw
Oct 18 18:58:02 <lcuk> i dont see why
Oct 18 18:58:20 <BBNS_> wonder if you could write modules for camera apps, so that you could edit your photo right away.
Oct 18 18:58:41 <lcuk> the previews at the summit, coupled with the simplified qt reboot should allow things to run better, not worse
Oct 18 18:58:42 <BBNS_> like change the saturation etc
Oct 18 18:58:57 <lcuk> BBNS_, content cocreation, live editing section
Oct 18 18:59:05 <lcuk> we spoke extensively about it at the summit
Oct 18 18:59:38 * lcuk finds link for you
Oct 18 19:00:07 <lcuk> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32619
Oct 18 19:00:12 <lcuk> thats a bit on the results
Oct 18 19:00:13 <BBNS_> lcuk, thanks. that would be really nice!
Oct 18 19:01:22 <BBNS_> lcuk, you guys doen really amazing concepts.
Oct 18 19:01:35 <lcuk> yeah BBNS_ and that was just the final boiled down results
Oct 18 19:01:42 <lcuk> we spoke about some awesome concepts
Oct 18 19:02:09 <lcuk> the (near)live editing is something ive heard lots of people say
Oct 18 19:02:22 <lcuk> like last night, i had a video that was 10:01 - 1 second too long for youtube
Oct 18 19:02:35 <lcuk> if i could have cut/splice on the device i wouldv just extracted the bit i wanted
Oct 18 19:02:57 <lcuk> instead i had to dig up software and do the post processing on the pc
Oct 18 19:03:02 <tigert> youtube should just truncate those
Oct 18 19:03:04 <lcuk> something i couldv done in the taxi
Oct 18 19:03:07 <BBNS_> i think there is no technical boundary will stop you from doing so on maemo.
Oct 18 19:03:17 <lcuk> tigert, i had already shortened it from a 15minute one
Oct 18 19:03:18 <BBNS_> just need time to write code. =P
Oct 18 19:03:22 <tigert> but yeah, a video editor would be sweet
Oct 18 19:03:29 <lcuk> i missed off all the stuff about the playground and global search and stuff
Oct 18 19:03:40 <tigert> now, a good UI for that would be interesting
Oct 18 19:04:27 <lcuk> tigert, the graffiti wall in liqbase
Oct 18 19:04:28 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo#t=3m00s
Oct 18 19:04:35 <lcuk> show a video as loads of frames
Oct 18 19:04:40 <lcuk> allow start/end to be marked
Oct 18 19:04:45 <lcuk> save the middle bit as a new file
Oct 18 19:07:40 <vasily_pupkin> anybody know, where can I get original source for cx3110x?
Oct 18 19:08:54 * lcuk cant get camera stuff building - ill look back when i get on *spit* scratchbox
Oct 18 19:08:55 <guysoft42> hi all, can someone tell me how to download in sb2 the maemo kernel headers?
Oct 18 19:09:02 <luke-jr> vasily_pupkin: you mean like, not working with normal apps?
Oct 18 19:09:11 <BBNS_> lcuk, if someone implemented the concept, please tell me =P i am doing to buy his/her stock!
Oct 18 19:09:23 <lcuk> BBNS_, :)
Oct 18 19:09:25 <florian> hi all
Oct 18 19:09:29 <BBNS_> lcuk, um, what do you mean can't get camera stuff building? o.o
Oct 18 19:09:31 <luke-jr> vasily_pupkin: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/c/cx3110x-module-src/cx3110x-module-src_2.0.15-1.tar.gz
Oct 18 19:09:39 <lcuk> i do everythign on device for now
Oct 18 19:09:39 <BBNS_> lcuk, missing libraries or headers?
Oct 18 19:09:48 <lcuk> until the standard toolkit can be worked from windows
Oct 18 19:10:02 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: Sorry, still uploading...
Oct 18 19:10:24 <BBNS_> lcuk, error message? o.o
Oct 18 19:10:27 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: np :)
Oct 18 19:10:28 <lcuk> BBNS_, its a silly thing right now, i cant find the header
Oct 18 19:10:30 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: ta :)
Oct 18 19:10:42 <BBNS_> lcuk, ah ... let me see
Oct 18 19:11:08 * BBNS_ looking for his cmake file
Oct 18 19:12:00 <BBNS_> lcuk, you have pkg-config installed?
Oct 18 19:12:46 <BBNS_> you need gstinterfaces-0.10 / gstphotography-0.10 / gstbase-0.10
Oct 18 19:13:07 <vasily_pupkin> luke-jr: that sucks, but wpa_supplicant patched cx not worked with wlancond O_o
Oct 18 19:13:34 <BBNS_> the header should be located within /usr/include/gstreamer-0.10 though
Oct 18 19:13:39 * lcuk nods
Oct 18 19:13:42 <lcuk> i got it compiling
Oct 18 19:13:48 <BBNS_> nice.
Oct 18 19:13:49 <lcuk> hold on tho
Oct 18 19:13:54 <lcuk> gotta add lib to other dev
Oct 18 19:13:57 <lcuk> thx
Oct 18 19:14:02 <BBNS_> np
Oct 18 19:14:14 <javispedro> vasily_pupkin: seen my cx3110x patch?
Oct 18 19:14:20 <vasily_pupkin> javispedro: no
Oct 18 19:14:44 <Stskeeps> javispedro: what is different to your patch btw?
Oct 18 19:15:15 <javispedro> since I cannot modify nokia bins to speak the "wrong" protocol I modified both cx3110x and wpa_supplicant to speak the wrong protocol.
Oct 18 19:15:26 <vasily_pupkin> wow (=
Oct 18 19:15:49 <lcuk> oh crap!
Oct 18 19:15:56 <BBNS_> ?
Oct 18 19:15:57 <lcuk> it wants to install about 200 packages
Oct 18 19:16:01 <vasily_pupkin> may be better be writing icd plugin for wpa_supplicant?
Oct 18 19:16:02 <lcuk> just for gstreamer0.10-plugins-camera
Oct 18 19:16:06 <BBNS_> xD
Oct 18 19:16:11 <lcuk> i think ill just wait for a little while lol
Oct 18 19:16:24 <BBNS_> lol ... get a vmware dude!
Oct 18 19:16:30 <lcuk> i did at first
Oct 18 19:16:31 <javispedro> vasily_pupkin: git clone https://git.maemo.org/projects/libicd-wpa then get patches/cx3110x and patches/wpa_supplicant
Oct 18 19:16:35 <BBNS_> don't kill yourself and your n900.
Oct 18 19:16:37 <lcuk> but vmware doesnt like my mouse acceleration
Oct 18 19:16:42 <BBNS_> ahh ...
Oct 18 19:16:53 <BBNS_> then just like me ... don't use windows. =P
Oct 18 19:16:57 <lcuk> heh
Oct 18 19:17:20 <vasily_pupkin> javispedro: thanks
Oct 18 19:17:24 <lcuk> normally not an issue
Oct 18 19:17:41 <vasily_pupkin> but seems like original drivers not work for me for now :]
Oct 18 19:17:44 <vasily_pupkin> holy crap
Oct 18 19:17:54 <vasily_pupkin> i want to kill wlancond developers :]
Oct 18 19:18:03 <javispedro> wlancond is open
Oct 18 19:18:37 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, hey, here?
Oct 18 19:18:44 <BBNS_> lcuk, i think my team member pretty much ditched windows already. =P
Oct 18 19:18:53 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: Hiya
Oct 18 19:18:54 <javispedro> Stskeeps: did that answer your question?
Oct 18 19:19:02 <lcuk> lol BBNS_ i have linux on the laptop
Oct 18 19:19:10 <lcuk> but it doesnt easily run the one tool i still use
Oct 18 19:19:15 <Stskeeps> javispedro: thanks
Oct 18 19:19:29 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, yay, you just activated my cool new gadget:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puJtZcH0s80
Oct 18 19:19:44 <BBNS_> lcuk, perhaps write one yourself. j/k =P
Oct 18 19:19:55 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, i want to make it work with mameo, but i need the kernel headers first. do you know where i can get them?
Oct 18 19:20:17 <lcuk> BBNS_ lol
Oct 18 19:20:20 <javispedro> Stskeeps: in case you're interesed in the details diff the orig cx3110x patch and mine's, iiirc (that was 9 monts ago!) it was just a stupid issue.
Oct 18 19:20:44 <lcuk> i almost did at the summit
Oct 18 19:20:46 <vasily_pupkin> javispedro: what libicd-wpa do?
Oct 18 19:20:55 <vasily_pupkin> javispedro: is this wpa_supplicant icd plugin?
Oct 18 19:20:59 <lcuk> i couldnt get vb working (to create the layouts for the presentation)(
Oct 18 19:20:59 <javispedro> vasily_pupkin: yes
Oct 18 19:21:02 <lcuk> so i had to improvise
Oct 18 19:21:04 <vasily_pupkin> wow. cool! (=
Oct 18 19:21:09 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: AFAIK, the headers should be installed with the SDK by default, but don't quote me on that; it's been a good few months before I looked at any kernel stuff
Oct 18 19:21:22 <vasily_pupkin> javispedro: it use config in gconf or /etc/wpa_supplicant?
Oct 18 19:21:32 <javispedro> full name is libicd-network-wpa, but g arage didn't like such a long name ;)
Oct 18 19:21:39 <javispedro> vasily_pupkin: gconf
Oct 18 19:21:39 <lcuk> and BBNS_ i draw interfaces all the time, its not that big a jump to save them as source instead of saving them as sketch
Oct 18 19:21:56 <javispedro> vasily_pupkin: but it uses a trivial mapping between gconf<->wpa_supplicant.conf settings
Oct 18 19:21:58 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, i need the .config file
Oct 18 19:22:10 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, so i can compile the kernel, at the moment it gives me errors
Oct 18 19:22:25 <vasily_pupkin> ok. let's try
Oct 18 19:22:37 <javispedro> you don't have to use libicd-wpa to get the patches.
Oct 18 19:22:38 <BBNS_> lcuk, you reminds my whiteboard ...
Oct 18 19:22:55 <BBNS_> has been over abused.
Oct 18 19:23:03 <lcuk> heh
Oct 18 19:23:32 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: That should be apt-get source kernel-source-diablo and make nokia_2420_defconfig
Oct 18 19:23:32 <vasily_pupkin> javispedro: i just want use icd and wpa_supplicant :)
Oct 18 19:24:33 <BBNS_> lcuk, or perhaps virtualbox would work. not sure.
Oct 18 19:24:37 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, but i want to edit that .config file
Oct 18 19:24:53 <qwerty12_N810> So, edit it? :)
Oct 18 19:25:02 <lcuk> BBNS_, im actually happy working on arm itself
Oct 18 19:25:14 <guysoft42> guy@golem3:~/mydocuments/devel/maemo/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source$ make nokia_2420_defconfig scripts/kconfig/conf: scripts/kconfig/conf: cannot execute binary file
Oct 18 19:25:14 <BBNS_> i see. =P hardcore! /bow
Oct 18 19:25:20 <lcuk> it removes the brainfunk of system inside system inside system
Oct 18 19:25:28 <lcuk> nahhh native compilation
Oct 18 19:25:34 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, um, we have a problem
Oct 18 19:25:39 <lcuk> mer will have full complete workable build toolchain
Oct 18 19:25:50 <lcuk> /has
Oct 18 19:26:01 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: You are doing this inside scratchbox, right?
Oct 18 19:26:15 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, hell, i am a moron
Oct 18 19:26:31 <lcuk> BBNS_, besides - me pushing for this has to be benecifial - if a dev can walk upto maemo and without anything major on their desktop end can have a full build system available
Oct 18 19:26:35 <lcuk> its gotta be good
Oct 18 19:27:00 * Stskeeps still thinks the chroot idea could work.
Oct 18 19:27:05 <lcuk> i know wholeheartedly that building works well - gcc is super slick
Oct 18 19:27:07 <Stskeeps> of the armel rootstrap
Oct 18 19:27:24 <lcuk> i agree Stskeeps
Oct 18 19:27:33 <lcuk> but i dont know howtf to set that up :$
Oct 18 19:27:46 <Stskeeps> we should get qole on it..
Oct 18 19:27:47 <Stskeeps> he'd know
Oct 18 19:28:12 <BBNS_> lcuk, not sure it works for dev that spoiled by iPhone SDK and XCode. we need something better than that.
Oct 18 19:28:13 * Stskeeps sends him a message
Oct 18 19:28:20 <qwerty12_N810> He's expressed that desire quite a few times, actually; push him
Oct 18 19:29:56 <lcuk> BBNS_, of course they have been spoiled, but i compile and run on actual metal quickly and easily
Oct 18 19:30:12 <Ppupnik> some one make a bugreport applet that submits current os and software version to bugtracker
Oct 18 19:30:13 <lcuk> the emulated portion on maemo is still troublesome according to som
Oct 18 19:30:37 <Ppupnik> lcuk can you bounce that to -devel pls
Oct 18 19:30:53 <lcuk> which bit?
Oct 18 19:30:58 <BBNS_> yeah. qemu *beep* me off sometime ...
Oct 18 19:31:10 <lcuk> and its already in motion - qt-creator is being targetted towards it isnt it
Oct 18 19:31:13 <Ppupnik> suggestion: bugreport applet that submits current os and software version to bugtracker
Oct 18 19:31:32 <qwerty12_N810> Ppupnik: Open an enhancement request :p
Oct 18 19:31:33 <Ppupnik> and allows entering comment /title
Oct 18 19:31:34 <lcuk> nahhh not an applet
Oct 18 19:31:39 <Ppupnik> ok
Oct 18 19:31:46 <Ppupnik> want discussion first
Oct 18 19:31:46 <lcuk> isnt there already bug reporter
Oct 18 19:31:51 <lcuk> or is that just crash reporter
Oct 18 19:31:54 <Ppupnik> maybe my idea is bad
Oct 18 19:31:59 <Ppupnik> ih golod
Oct 18 19:32:02 <lcuk> lol if its an applet
Oct 18 19:32:07 <lcuk> people will start blaming their cat
Oct 18 19:32:12 <lcuk> for adding 900000000000 bugs
Oct 18 19:32:17 <Ppupnik> k
Oct 18 19:32:47 <Ppupnik> obviously such bugs would have an associated tag
Oct 18 19:32:52 <BBNS_> http://canihavecheezburger.com/
Oct 18 19:32:53 <Ppupnik> to allow filtering them out
Oct 18 19:32:54 * timeless_mbp grumbles
Oct 18 19:33:19 <lcuk> grrr BBNS_
Oct 18 19:33:36 <lcuk> http://icanhascheezburger.com/
Oct 18 19:33:48 <BBNS_> oops
Oct 18 19:34:00 <Ppupnik> i might need to present reasons for this idea better
Oct 18 19:34:29 <lcuk> inside liqbase, i can add a note tagged to the name of any screen
Oct 18 19:34:32 <lcuk> and upload them
Oct 18 19:34:38 <lcuk> i want to group them in the future
Oct 18 19:34:39 <Ppupnik> nice
Oct 18 19:34:50 <lcuk> to see people raging about new features or bugs
Oct 18 19:35:02 <lcuk> the rocket in the corner does tracing ontop of anything
Oct 18 19:36:05 <Ppupnik> do you know when images for flashing will be generally available?
Oct 18 19:36:10 <Ppupnik> oct 22?
Oct 18 19:36:16 <Stskeeps> hey MoonTiger :)
Oct 18 19:36:25 <Stskeeps> lcuk, qwerty12_N810: sent him a challenge :P
Oct 18 19:36:36 <Stskeeps> he gets to prove me right or wrong on this issue
Oct 18 19:36:39 <luke-jr> who's up for a game of FREECIV?!
Oct 18 19:36:54 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: if it wasn't this late, maybe
Oct 18 19:36:57 <Ppupnik> i saw talk of genesis emulator - i can share what is working from my source tree
Oct 18 19:37:04 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: pfft, it's 2:30 PM
Oct 18 19:37:08 <qwerty12_N810> luke-jr: Nope, but I'll play <insert any Microsoft game here>
Oct 18 19:37:09 <Ppupnik> dunno
Oct 18 19:37:13 <luke-jr> qwerty12_N810: fail
Oct 18 19:37:27 <qwerty12_N810> luke-jr: But, it's Microsoft!
Oct 18 19:37:31 <JayBomb999> Why can't the transitions, zooms, etc on the n900 be as liquid smooth as liqbase?  They look awful in comparison.
Oct 18 19:37:33 <luke-jr> exacty
Oct 18 19:37:42 <Ppupnik> who will port scorched3d to n900 and be a maemo god?
Oct 18 19:38:18 <Ppupnik> jaybomb yup too slow still
Oct 18 19:38:38 <lcuk> JayBomb999, the transitions on n900 are drawn first using the cpu onto pixmap memory, this pixmap memory is then taken and converted to textures and sent back through the powervr chip
Oct 18 19:38:52 <lcuk> and onwards to the screen
Oct 18 19:39:08 <lcuk> liqbase has a since 800*480 screen and draws what it needs direct to that and send it
Oct 18 19:39:15 <lcuk> has a single
Oct 18 19:39:43 <JayBomb999> lcuk: Is this.. better somehow?  I really prefer your method.  :)
Oct 18 19:39:51 <lcuk> the best way to optimize the x11 transitions is to CUT DOWN ON THE DRAWN LAYERS
Oct 18 19:40:13 <lcuk> JayBomb999, its scalable
Oct 18 19:40:18 <lcuk> i can draw lots and lots
Oct 18 19:40:24 <lcuk> and my rendering routines are optimized
Oct 18 19:40:34 <lcuk> so i can draw 1 800*480 screen, or lots of smaller ones
Oct 18 19:40:37 <lcuk> in the same timeframe
Oct 18 19:40:50 <JayBomb999> It is unlikely to see suck fluidity on the n900?
Oct 18 19:40:56 <BBNS_> lcuk, send your patch to maemo team? =P
Oct 18 19:40:57 <Ppupnik> at least this limitation isnt critical
Oct 18 19:40:58 <JayBomb999> suck=such
Oct 18 19:41:03 <lcuk> BBNS_, give me a job
Oct 18 19:41:11 <Ppupnik> but hopefully fixed in next gen
Oct 18 19:41:17 <ali1234> the n900 transitions are rendered completely in software?
Oct 18 19:41:23 <lcuk> no
Oct 18 19:41:23 <BBNS_> lcuk, maybe ask qgil =P
Oct 18 19:41:27 <lcuk> they are powervr driven
Oct 18 19:41:34 <lbt> Jaffa: you around?
Oct 18 19:41:37 <BBNS_> lcuk, i am from differnt unit. =P
Oct 18 19:41:38 <MoonTiger> hey Stskeeps :)
Oct 18 19:41:42 <lcuk> yeah i know
Oct 18 19:42:24 <Ppupnik> afaik there is no fast blitting of textures to opengl es
Oct 18 19:42:25 <lcuk> the apps that work well have already been thinned out quite extensively
Oct 18 19:42:35 <Ppupnik> i would like to be proven wrong though
Oct 18 19:42:45 <lcuk> and the compositing itself once a screen is drawn is great
Oct 18 19:42:50 <Ppupnik> hmm
Oct 18 19:42:51 <JayBomb999> Let me try that poorly written questions again,..is it unlikely to see liqbase type fluidity in maemo5/n900?
Oct 18 19:42:54 <lbt> Jaffa: back in July (12/07/09 15:04) Re: Optimal battery life considerations in apps ... you talked about the power states for an app - did you take that further?
Oct 18 19:42:57 <ali1234> surely the display is in graphics memory already?
Oct 18 19:43:17 <lcuk> JayBomb999, liqbase runs on maemo 5
Oct 18 19:43:22 <MoonTiger> are the hardware drivers for the n810 really going to make a big difference?
Oct 18 19:43:27 <lcuk> i told nokia on day 1 that the device ran too fast
Oct 18 19:43:36 <lcuk> (it was actually a bug report
Oct 18 19:43:40 <Ppupnik> once app is fullscreen, it renders via x, yes
Oct 18 19:44:01 <Ppupnik> hm
Oct 18 19:44:10 <JayBomb999> lcuk: I know.  I was referring to the UI.  The transitions are laggy in comparison to liqbase.
Oct 18 19:44:13 <lcuk> Ppupnik, im not sure even fullscreen the compositor is bypassed
Oct 18 19:44:18 <lcuk> but that might be a nice thing to try
Oct 18 19:44:25 <luke-jr> anyone coming to play freeciv? :(
Oct 18 19:44:32 <lcuk> transitions are nicer on the dashboard than liqbase
Oct 18 19:44:38 <lcuk> i like how fluid that works
Oct 18 19:44:46 <lcuk> they arent the problem
Oct 18 19:45:01 <mikhas> on the n900, can apps using cairo get help from the dsp for rendering?
Oct 18 19:45:28 <Ppupnik> lcuk i would rather not break maemo5 conventions but rather learn and apply them
Oct 18 19:45:34 <lcuk> JayBomb999, when zooming in liqbase theres a little stutter at times, i dont notice it zooming in and out of the daskboard
Oct 18 19:45:50 <lcuk> dash
Oct 18 19:46:03 <lcuk> yeah Ppupnik me too
Oct 18 19:46:24 <lcuk> i saw in the qt presentations that the qt rendering pathway is shorter
Oct 18 19:46:42 <lcuk> with directly rendered elements
Oct 18 19:46:52 <JayBomb999> lcuk:  Interesting.  Every video of the N900, especially returning from the dashboard to a full screen app, show stutter.  I thought your implementation in liqbase looked so much smoother.  Though you'd know better. :)
Oct 18 19:47:09 <lcuk> lol its possibly because i dont ever run too much
Oct 18 19:47:21 <lcuk> i routinely have >15-20 items in liqbase playground tho
Oct 18 19:47:28 <lcuk> and they come back every time
Oct 18 19:47:37 <lcuk> but if i reboot device i have none in the dashboard
Oct 18 19:47:44 <lcuk> so theres only ever a few
Oct 18 19:48:00 <Ppupnik> it is great to have liqbase to compare to
Oct 18 19:48:29 <lcuk> yeah, "a different approach" and finding what works in this can hopefully be used as lessons for other things
Oct 18 19:48:51 <lcuk> it would be even nicer to start using liqbase for more than i want it for
Oct 18 19:48:52 <Ppupnik> i see it co evolving
Oct 18 19:48:58 <Ppupnik> in the next years
Oct 18 19:49:02 <JayBomb999> I don't know how to explain it exactly, but the dashboard zooming in/out doesn't look like compositing I see using compiz.  It looks like it's being redrawn.  If that makes any sense...
Oct 18 19:49:17 <lcuk> dashboard is all pvr
Oct 18 19:49:24 <JayBomb999> pvr?
Oct 18 19:49:26 <lcuk> its taking textures for X apps running
Oct 18 19:49:28 <JayBomb999> sorry... ignorant.
Oct 18 19:49:29 <lcuk> powervr
Oct 18 19:49:33 <lcuk> the 3d chip
Oct 18 19:49:38 <lcuk> and zooming in out
Oct 18 19:49:43 <lcuk> its what clutter can do well
Oct 18 19:49:53 <lcuk> it should also rotate, but thats another discussion#
Oct 18 19:49:59 <Ppupnik> i showed someone three webpages with animated gifs in overview
Oct 18 19:49:59 <Ppupnik> and they went visibly mushy
Oct 18 19:50:26 <Ppupnik> when can pupnik flash :)
Oct 18 19:50:55 <JayBomb999> I see. Why is there the hesitation then?  Especially with a few apps open?
Oct 18 19:51:06 <Ppupnik> it is worse than i thought it would be, leaving it brocked on desk :)
Oct 18 19:51:07 <unixSnob> i noticed the n900 is going for $600.. is that for real?  What's the euro price?
Oct 18 19:51:17 <Ppupnik> 500 iirc
Oct 18 19:51:24 <mikhas> €500 before taxes
Oct 18 19:51:29 * unixSnob wonders if they've sold any yet
Oct 18 19:51:55 <Ppupnik> it will drive new contracts
Oct 18 19:52:01 <Ppupnik> betcha
Oct 18 19:52:03 <JayBomb999> When an app is going full screen from the dashboard, at about 80% it hesitates then.. "pops" to fullscreen.  I find it a little jarring.
Oct 18 19:52:15 <Ppupnik> agree j
Oct 18 19:52:39 <JayBomb999> Was hoping this was explained by unpolished firmware...
Oct 18 19:52:40 <lcuk> JayBomb999, you are describing liqbase there
Oct 18 19:52:44 <ali1234> because up to that point it's stretching the app, then at the end the app has to reshape
Oct 18 19:52:52 <lcuk> not fremantle lol
Oct 18 19:53:00 <lcuk> cos i see that all the time in lb and not fremantle
Oct 18 19:53:15 <lcuk> ahhh when it changes skin
Oct 18 19:53:17 <unixSnob> Nokia lost 20% in the last quarter due to lacking sales - no wonder
Oct 18 19:53:18 <lcuk> from the mini view
Oct 18 19:53:20 <lcuk> to the normal one
Oct 18 19:53:24 <JayBomb999> yes
Oct 18 19:53:41 <Ppupnik> jay, it doesnt really interfere with the use, but it does look rough
Oct 18 19:54:08 <JayBomb999> Yes I could live with it.  Just would rather not. ;)
Oct 18 19:55:14 <lcuk> could people *PLEASE* stop posting drnoksnes game links in my PM box.  *blink*
Oct 18 19:55:41 <Ppupnik> oh dear, a porsche is expensive.  what will i do. waah.
Oct 18 19:55:54 <Ppupnik> hah
Oct 18 19:56:02 <RST38h> Go for a Lada?
Oct 18 19:56:14 <wao> waah
Oct 18 19:56:21 <MoonTiger> unixSnob, i think they need to get their act together indeed
Oct 18 19:56:22 <wao> Ppupnik: buy a bmw!
Oct 18 19:56:46 <Ppupnik> yeah or audis monster cars
Oct 18 19:57:07 <Ppupnik> or.  bicycle
Oct 18 19:57:17 <mikhas> from porsche
Oct 18 19:57:43 <Ppupnik> 1997 specialized stumpjumper here
Oct 18 19:57:56 <RST38h> bicycle gets wet in the rain
Oct 18 19:58:14 <Ppupnik> women like wet guys
Oct 18 19:58:23 <mikhas> so does a porsche
Oct 18 19:58:28 <mikhas> whether as car or as bike
Oct 18 19:59:03 <qwerty12_N810> Segway
Oct 18 19:59:22 <lcuk> curious
Oct 18 19:59:27 <lcuk> jake just got n900
Oct 18 19:59:31 <lcuk> and he saw a scrollbar
Oct 18 19:59:36 <lcuk> and wanted to scrolldown with it
Oct 18 20:00:01 <qwerty12_N810> That's not just limited to Jake...
Oct 18 20:00:17 * qwerty12_N810 thinks of h-a-m with extras-devel enabled
Oct 18 20:00:22 <mikhas> yeah, the scrollbar is the worst part of the UI
Oct 18 20:00:29 <mikhas> the rest is mostly great and intuitive
Oct 18 20:00:54 <mikhas> if you read from left to right the scrollbar goes away too quickly before you recognize there was one
Oct 18 20:01:04 <vasily_pupkin> hm
Oct 18 20:01:17 <vasily_pupkin> wpa_supplicant with patched module not working
Oct 18 20:02:31 <lcuk> mikhas, i did a load of stuff with kinetics and scrolling
Oct 18 20:02:37 <lcuk> i rounded on a simple solution:
Oct 18 20:02:47 <lcuk> left hand 80% of screen is kinetic
Oct 18 20:02:58 <lcuk> right hand 20% is actually direct addressing
Oct 18 20:03:03 <lcuk> and matches the scrollbar
Oct 18 20:03:11 <lcuk> so if you grab and hold there you can get to bottom of list
Oct 18 20:03:18 <lcuk> or anywhere else
Oct 18 20:03:37 <lcuk> it takes a long press to start the direct addressing
Oct 18 20:03:49 <lcuk> so poking and using the list in the right hand side is still viable
Oct 18 20:07:20 <lcuk> hi ccooke
Oct 18 20:10:27 <andre__> mikhas, there is a bug report in bugs.maemo.org that the scrollbar should be shown longer than 2secs. feel free to vote...
Oct 18 20:11:39 <villemv> anyone using maemo-pc-connectivity here?
Oct 18 20:11:56 <villemv> I'm wondering... I don't see the control panel apllets not the status bar thingie
Oct 18 20:12:01 <villemv> nor
Oct 18 20:12:17 <villemv> the only "Extras" applets are "services" and "usb networking"
Oct 18 20:12:34 <lcuk> mikhas, well
Oct 18 20:12:41 <lcuk> we did complain loudly for kinetics for years
Oct 18 20:12:43 <lcuk> they gave em us
Oct 18 20:12:53 <lcuk> well, we did complain about wanting kinetics for year
Oct 18 20:12:58 <lcuk> balls
Oct 18 20:13:05 <lcuk> theres me thinking that i wasnt typing
Oct 18 20:13:09 <frals> :D
Oct 18 20:13:20 * lcuk scrolls xchat into view
Oct 18 20:14:22 <vasily_pupkin> hm
Oct 18 20:14:35 <villemv>   Depends: maemo-control-usb
Oct 18 20:14:35 <villemv>   Depends: maemo-control-services
Oct 18 20:14:42 <villemv> that's the only deps for m-p-c I see
Oct 18 20:14:44 <GAN900> Just a heads up. Zombieland is amazing.
Oct 18 20:14:51 <villemv> only cpl applets i mean
Oct 18 20:16:45 <villemv> can anyone with a working pc connectivity run apt-cache depends maemo-pc-connectivity for me?
Oct 18 20:24:21 <netBoss> Hey every one
Oct 18 20:24:42 <netBoss> Is the calaendar intergred in the system
Oct 18 20:24:57 <netBoss> accept synconisation with Google Calandar
Oct 18 20:25:12 <javispedro> I am sooo sick of sooo many stupid ROM PMs.
Oct 18 20:25:15 <vasily_pupkin> javispedro: hey. i compile all, wpa_supplicant works
Oct 18 20:25:25 <javispedro> vasily_pupkin: :)
Oct 18 20:25:25 <vasily_pupkin> javispedro: but wlancond+wpa == fail
Oct 18 20:25:28 <vasily_pupkin> :]
Oct 18 20:25:29 <javispedro> :(
Oct 18 20:25:46 <lcuk> lol javispedro
Oct 18 20:25:47 <javispedro> which eap?
Oct 18 20:25:59 <vasily_pupkin> wpa/psk
Oct 18 20:26:51 <javispedro> wierd. are you sure you did wlancan after loading the newly patched cx3110x?
Oct 18 20:27:00 <vasily_pupkin> i see in dmesg, thar driver associated
Oct 18 20:27:09 <vasily_pupkin> then pass some time
Oct 18 20:27:12 <vasily_pupkin> and deassociate
Oct 18 20:27:13 <javispedro> s/wlancan/wlancal
Oct 18 20:27:21 <vasily_pupkin> yeah
Oct 18 20:27:28 <vasily_pupkin> wpa_supplicant works
Oct 18 20:27:29 <javispedro> can you md5sum the .ko file?
Oct 18 20:27:40 <vasily_pupkin> i have very own kernel :]
Oct 18 20:27:52 <vasily_pupkin> but..
Oct 18 20:28:03 <vasily_pupkin> 2f96ea02f17a97413f43c4d4fc1aa7f8  cx3110x.ko
Oct 18 20:29:02 <javispedro> they differ but I guess it's due to build time or some other reason
Oct 18 20:29:24 <vasily_pupkin> my sk_buff structure is differ :)
Oct 18 20:29:27 <javispedro> if you right now rmmod the patched module and insmod the original one does wlancond work?
Oct 18 20:29:35 <javispedro> ah well.
Oct 18 20:29:51 <vasily_pupkin> i change modules once again
Oct 18 20:30:02 <vasily_pupkin> now i put compiled without your patch
Oct 18 20:30:37 <javispedro> i am using it right now with wpa2 (aes) / psk
Oct 18 20:31:44 <vasily_pupkin> oh shit
Oct 18 20:31:45 <vasily_pupkin> :)
Oct 18 20:31:54 <vasily_pupkin> old modules not working too ^_^
Oct 18 20:31:57 <vasily_pupkin> hm
Oct 18 20:32:17 <vasily_pupkin> can it be because of libicd-bla-bla and new osso-wlan? :]
Oct 18 20:32:44 <javispedro> libicd-network-wlan and new osso-wlan? shouldn't.
Oct 18 20:32:50 <vasily_pupkin> hm
Oct 18 20:32:57 <vasily_pupkin> fscked lifse ^_^
Oct 18 20:33:11 <javispedro> if you look at the osso-wlan patch it just adds a new flag ,doesn't change behaviour if flag not set.
Oct 18 20:33:21 <vasily_pupkin> yeah, i see
Oct 18 20:35:50 <vasily_pupkin> oh lol
Oct 18 20:36:28 <vasily_pupkin> to test wpa i own my neighbour point
Oct 18 20:36:44 <vasily_pupkin> looks like passphrase is changed or something in that space
Oct 18 20:36:46 <vasily_pupkin> hm
Oct 18 20:36:48 <vasily_pupkin> (%
Oct 18 20:37:07 <javispedro> heh.
Oct 18 20:37:18 <vasily_pupkin> at least at this time wpa_supplicant not working too
Oct 18 20:37:29 <vasily_pupkin> but it works some time ago with this module
Oct 18 20:37:35 <vasily_pupkin> lets try from host..
Oct 18 20:37:46 <javispedro> if nothing works time to reboot lol :)
Oct 18 20:38:03 <vasily_pupkin> (=
Oct 18 20:42:19 <vasily_pupkin> heh. if windows xp couldn't connect - nothing could
Oct 18 20:43:02 <vasily_pupkin> eh.. it was very good access point. i lost it for the name of truth ._.
Oct 18 20:50:24 <javispedro> ) {
Oct 18 20:50:37 <javispedro> oops.
Oct 18 20:51:01 <qwerty12_N810> ^^ javispedro's function to take over the world
Oct 18 20:51:20 <javispedro> If only I knew in which language it was written, I could run it....
Oct 18 20:52:55 <lcuk> javispedro, finger pinch and pan out
Oct 18 20:53:01 <lcuk> you might be able to see the rest of the code
Oct 18 20:53:12 <lcuk> or swirly zoom should i say!
Oct 18 20:53:23 <javispedro> swirly zoom! i don't want capacitive!
Oct 18 20:53:47 <lcuk> i just tend to click back button to pan out
Oct 18 20:54:02 <lcuk> less energetic than any other method
Oct 18 20:54:46 <lcuk> i might do a comparison of how much energy it takes to do actions
Oct 18 20:54:56 <lcuk> with multitouch, single touch and with stylus
Oct 18 20:54:59 <mikhas> what wait. do you say swirly zoom will go away on future devices?
Oct 18 20:55:10 <Macer> lcuk: i would expect you to be doing backflips since they are releasingn psuedo drivers for the opengles stuff on n8x0
Oct 18 20:55:17 <lcuk> how would i eat breakfast
Oct 18 20:55:20 <lcuk> and read news
Oct 18 20:55:22 <vasily_pupkin> javispedro: by the way, how can i put flags to use wpa_supplicant on saved networks?
Oct 18 20:55:27 <mikhas> I yet have to see iphone users who use multitouch. most of them only use one finger
Oct 18 20:55:34 <lcuk> Macer, opengles was never for liqbase
Oct 18 20:55:37 <lcuk> it was for gaming
Oct 18 20:55:47 <lcuk> liqbase would be slower with ogl
Oct 18 20:55:57 <javispedro> vasily_pupkin: it's very undocumented. have you seen the gconf files in the repo?
Oct 18 20:56:03 <vasily_pupkin> yeah
Oct 18 20:56:09 <lcuk> i would however welcome blitter support
Oct 18 20:56:21 <javispedro> ouch, there's still only one
Oct 18 20:56:23 <lcuk> especially rotblit
Oct 18 20:56:34 <Macer> let me rephrase
Oct 18 20:56:44 <Macer> aren't they releasing drivers for the gpu on an n8x0?
Oct 18 20:56:45 <Macer> :)
Oct 18 20:56:51 <lcuk> yeah
Oct 18 20:57:05 <Macer> that will allow you to use the 3d support?
Oct 18 20:57:09 <lcuk> but i dont see how it will make liqbase faster
Oct 18 20:57:25 <Macer> you don't get to push stuff from liq onto the gpu?
Oct 18 20:57:44 <Macer> and use it to help with rendering?
Oct 18 20:57:48 <lcuk> maybe in 12-18months again
Oct 18 20:58:03 <lcuk> after the output paths have been redesigned
Oct 18 20:58:18 <lcuk> principle bottleneck now isnt rendering
Oct 18 20:58:22 <lcuk> its image loading and decoding
Oct 18 20:58:38 <Macer> so it doesn't help at all? :)
Oct 18 20:58:39 <lcuk> at least on 810
Oct 18 20:58:43 <lcuk> not immediately
Oct 18 20:58:51 <lcuk> i worked round that damage about a year ago
Oct 18 20:59:28 <javispedro> vasily_pupkin: pull from git, and you see another gconf sample with IAP gconf settings
Oct 18 20:59:34 <vasily_pupkin> ok
Oct 18 20:59:59 <javispedro> you have to import network-type.xml into gconf,
Oct 18 21:00:07 <javispedro> then edit network.xml to suit your needs, and import it too.
Oct 18 21:00:26 <javispedro> there's no gui to edit.
Oct 18 21:00:33 <javispedro> that's something I am considering.
Oct 18 21:00:42 <lcuk> Macer, biggest desire for liqbase at the moment is rotated blit support - which the pvr might handle, but it comes at the same cost, im yuv
Oct 18 21:00:43 <javispedro> since I believe it's possible.
Oct 18 21:00:52 <lcuk> and pvr is natively rgb
Oct 18 21:01:23 * lcuk wants to find the time to dig out an old school 8bit vga blit rotation algo
Oct 18 21:01:44 <vasily_pupkin> hm
Oct 18 21:01:58 <vasily_pupkin> what tool imports gconfentry?
Oct 18 21:02:16 <javispedro> vasily_pupkin: gconftool --load
Oct 18 21:02:24 <vasily_pupkin> thanks
Oct 18 21:02:34 <Macer> why not mod the liq src to make it native rgb?
Oct 18 21:02:42 <vasily_pupkin> eh. i need more, more points!11 (%
Oct 18 21:02:45 <lcuk> cos then it wouldnt run as fast
Oct 18 21:02:57 <lcuk> here macer
Oct 18 21:02:58 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo
Oct 18 21:03:09 <lcuk> full overview of why and where im upto and what i want to do
Oct 18 21:03:19 <lcuk> sorry about wobbly camera
Oct 18 21:03:32 <Macer> touchbook doesn't do flash :(
Oct 18 21:03:38 <lcuk> touchbook fails
Oct 18 21:03:41 <lcuk> get a real machine
Oct 18 21:03:41 <Macer> at least not that i know of.. i haven't really tried to figure it out yet
Oct 18 21:03:44 <Macer> lol
Oct 18 21:03:50 <Macer> it would be a real machine if the os didn't totally suck
Oct 18 21:03:56 <lcuk> i thought it was this super machine?
Oct 18 21:04:14 <Macer> it is an n900 with a 9" screen and no 3G modem :)
Oct 18 21:04:23 <Macer> super is an exageration
Oct 18 21:04:26 <javispedro> it has pvr too?
Oct 18 21:04:41 <Macer> opengles 2.0 suupport
Oct 18 21:04:45 <zerojay> In otherwords... nothing too special then.
Oct 18 21:04:51 <Macer> not really
Oct 18 21:04:57 <Macer> just an arm netbook
Oct 18 21:05:17 <Macer> with a touch screen that detatches to look like a smartq
Oct 18 21:05:18 <qwerty12_N810> Meiz's video of it showing how easily it tips was funny
Oct 18 21:05:27 <zerojay> I don't think I'll ever get another device that won't have a modem/radio of some sort ever again.
Oct 18 21:05:27 <Macer> it sure does :)
Oct 18 21:05:54 <Macer> zerojay: might be able to install one in its internal usb ports
Oct 18 21:05:59 <Macer> it tips bad
Oct 18 21:06:07 <lcuk> Macer, which os is it
Oct 18 21:06:09 <Macer> they are sending everybody these plastic tab things
Oct 18 21:06:16 <lcuk> and does it have xv?
Oct 18 21:06:16 <Macer> lcuk: modded angstrom
Oct 18 21:06:24 <Dantonic> hi
Oct 18 21:06:33 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: look at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32997
Oct 18 21:06:34 <Macer> honestly not sure.. i would say yes but am not positive
Oct 18 21:06:37 <Dantonic> Hey can you guys suggest a good flowcharting program?
Oct 18 21:06:52 <Dantonic> desktop linux prog
Oct 18 21:06:55 <Dantonic> I mean
Oct 18 21:06:56 <Dantonic> :P
Oct 18 21:10:03 <javispedro> I like the concept of flipping the phone to silence a call.
Oct 18 21:10:25 <javispedro> it's something I could remember to do if I want to shup the fscking ring.
Oct 18 21:10:29 <javispedro> in a hurry.
Oct 18 21:10:43 <javispedro> s/shup/shut up (i like to invent verbs it seems)
Oct 18 21:10:52 <Macer> until you have it in a bag jumping around and miss a booty call
Oct 18 21:11:07 <javispedro> you hav ea $600 phone in a bag jumping around? I don't
Oct 18 21:11:13 <lcuk> javispedro, i wont put the device down on the desk face down
Oct 18 21:11:24 <lcuk> o_O wouldnt want to scratch it accidentally
Oct 18 21:11:27 <Macer> javispedro: in its own pocket in a titanium case :)
Oct 18 21:11:50 <javispedro> but still jumping around .... ;P
Oct 18 21:12:14 <ShadowJK> heh, my E75 had silence with flip until latest OTA update
Oct 18 21:12:21 <javispedro> ShadowJK : LOL.
Oct 18 21:12:26 <javispedro> enuff said.
Oct 18 21:12:50 <ShadowJK> I lost that feature and gained working camera instead :)
Oct 18 21:14:24 <lardman> night all
Oct 18 21:14:47 <javispedro> gnite lardman
Oct 18 21:14:53 <aSIMULAtur> i have no problems putting my device face down on a table :P
Oct 18 21:15:11 <aSIMULAtur> especially when i'm in a meeting, and i happen to receive a call from jaakko
Oct 18 21:15:15 <javispedro> me neither.
Oct 18 21:15:15 <javispedro> lol
Oct 18 21:15:57 <qwerty12_N810> Slamming it down would be more stress relieving :)
Oct 18 21:16:07 <aSIMULAtur> or throwing it across the room
Oct 18 21:16:14 <timeless_mbp> hi qwerty12_N810
Oct 18 21:16:21 <timeless_mbp> did you look into window parenting?
Oct 18 21:16:27 <javispedro> I've seen nearly two times a phone ringing, with the owner unable to stop it.
Oct 18 21:16:38 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: Not today
Oct 18 21:16:44 <javispedro> due to gettings on his nerves/stress/whatever
Oct 18 21:16:53 <timeless_mbp> aSIMULAtor: fwiw, the fact that the second call rings while the phone is face down sucks :)
Oct 18 21:16:54 <qwerty12_N810> aSIMULAtor: ...or throwing it on the person who's calling you :p
Oct 18 21:17:32 <aSIMULAtur> yeah true, timeless
Oct 18 21:17:39 <absolute> yeah, but what other option is there? you don't want calls to be silent in your pocket if the phone happens to be angled that direction
Oct 18 21:17:48 <timeless_mbp> absolute: um
Oct 18 21:17:55 <timeless_mbp> very simple
Oct 18 21:18:01 <aSIMULAtur> to press on the "silent" button
Oct 18 21:18:02 <timeless_mbp> the phone knows its orientation
Oct 18 21:18:11 <timeless_mbp> and only goes into silent mode if you receive a call and flip it over
Oct 18 21:18:12 <aSIMULAtur> oh nm i read your question wrong
Oct 18 21:18:18 <timeless_mbp> it should leave that mode if you flip the phone up again
Oct 18 21:18:19 <lcuk> shake to cancel call would be good
Oct 18 21:18:30 <lcuk> "arghhhhhhhhh"
Oct 18 21:18:33 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: so if it rings while you're jogging, you miss the call?
Oct 18 21:18:36 <absolute> fair enough
Oct 18 21:18:38 <javispedro> actually, "shake" to escape was not a bad idea either.
Oct 18 21:18:54 <lcuk> timeless, hell yeah
Oct 18 21:19:00 <timeless_mbp> ...
Oct 18 21:19:00 <crashanddie> the "Nokia Tune" is the most played piece of music in the world
Oct 18 21:19:01 <lcuk> you are running i wouldnt want to hear you panting
Oct 18 21:19:06 <crashanddie> played over 1.8 Billion times per day
Oct 18 21:19:14 <lcuk> ms windows startup tune
Oct 18 21:19:20 <crashanddie> nope
Oct 18 21:19:26 <aSIMULAtur> probably that 1 billion times it's being played is at nrc
Oct 18 21:19:28 <crashanddie> would appear nokias require more reboots than windows
Oct 18 21:19:29 <SpeedEvil> timeless_mbp: unless you only count shkin as an increase in shake
Oct 18 21:19:32 <aSIMULAtur> everytime i hear that ringtone..........
Oct 18 21:20:18 <timeless_mbp> why are you awake btw?
Oct 18 21:20:27 <javispedro> I think the most played tune is the old GameBoy blink startup tune.
Oct 18 21:20:28 <aSIMULAtur> why are YOU awake :P
Oct 18 21:20:34 <aSIMULAtur> i was just about to go to sleep and say "good nite"
Oct 18 21:20:36 <timeless_mbp> i'm hacking :)
Oct 18 21:20:38 <javispedro> well, no, maybe no.
Oct 18 21:20:39 <lcuk> damn nokia startup tune woke her
Oct 18 21:20:43 <timeless_mbp> heh
Oct 18 21:20:58 * qwerty12_N810 's wondering how he has his N900 in Spanish and is still able to use it. Maemo rocks.
Oct 18 21:21:23 <lcuk> aSIMULAtor, timeless have you seen the maemo.org startup doofer?
Oct 18 21:21:27 <aSIMULAtur> porque tu entiendes espanol
Oct 18 21:21:39 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: seen, yes, where's my package?
Oct 18 21:21:46 <javispedro> será porque él entiende español.
Oct 18 21:21:51 <javispedro> >:)
Oct 18 21:22:12 <lcuk> your package?
Oct 18 21:22:23 <aSIMULAtur> forgive minun espanol kasi hindi ko alam ng spanish mabuti
Oct 18 21:22:24 <lcuk> i didnt do the startup thingy
Oct 18 21:22:24 <aSIMULAtur> there u go
Oct 18 21:22:31 <aSIMULAtur> i just mixed up 4 languages
Oct 18 21:22:33 <aSIMULAtur> that means
Oct 18 21:22:34 <aSIMULAtur> time to sleep :D
Oct 18 21:22:35 <aSIMULAtur> nite
Oct 18 21:22:38 <lcuk> gnite
Oct 18 21:22:40 <javispedro> hehe, bye aSIMULAtor .
Oct 18 21:22:45 <qwerty12_N810> 'night
Oct 18 21:23:46 <lcuk> for those that havent, a replacement for the nokia startup http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32935
Oct 18 21:24:04 <qwerty12_N810> We need Benson to do a replacement
Oct 18 21:24:35 <javispedro> I liked GAN's one.
Oct 18 21:25:21 <qwerty12_N810> Does hildon-welcome have a maximum limit on the time?
Oct 18 21:25:37 <qwerty12_N810> I could imagine someone putting a movie in that folder as a prank...
Oct 18 21:25:38 <javispedro> proper question would be: is hildon-welcome OSS?
Oct 18 21:25:43 <qwerty12_N810> it is
Oct 18 21:25:49 <qwerty12_N810> It's in stage
Oct 18 21:25:56 <javispedro> community 3-hour intro video SSU!!
Oct 18 21:26:13 <qwerty12_N810> In all languages!
Oct 18 21:26:27 <javispedro> Slow Maemopard!
Oct 18 21:26:37 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: To quote Linus, it needs the penguin to come on at 100MPH, packed to the gills with herring.
Oct 18 21:26:39 <javispedro> er.. it's Snow, come to think of it.
Oct 18 21:26:53 <qwerty12_N810> I'll update rootsh to rm -rf /home/user
Oct 18 21:27:07 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: just to check, have you sent anything? :)
Oct 18 21:27:38 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: I sent a link via /msg, didn't you recieve it?! lemme e-mail it
Oct 18 21:28:09 <javispedro> wazd's client does not seem to get /msg 's, it took me a while to realize it wasn't him being evil and ignoring my PMs ;)
Oct 18 21:28:40 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: I have a strange /msg system :)
Oct 18 21:28:50 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: it doesnt' work until I add you to my CL
Oct 18 21:28:55 * qwerty12_N810 adds Miranda IM to his list of things to never touch
Oct 18 21:29:00 <qwerty12_N810> Odd :)
Oct 18 21:29:34 <wazd> lcuk: better remove bling-bling and all logos
Oct 18 21:29:46 <wazd> lcuk: ah, I suppose you're not the author :)
Oct 18 21:30:11 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: yeah, well, has anyone packaged it?
Oct 18 21:30:14 <lcuk> nahh wazd
Oct 18 21:30:26 <lcuk> but why remove the logos - they actually show that the entire device is a collaboration
Oct 18 21:30:27 <timeless_mbp> oh wow, i haven't seen those
Oct 18 21:30:30 <timeless_mbp> i saw the first thing
Oct 18 21:31:06 <lcuk> timeless, i think people are discussing more the creation of a CPL to manage these
Oct 18 21:31:14 <lcuk> rather than a package for a single one
Oct 18 21:31:37 <timeless_mbp> man, that splash is awesome
Oct 18 21:31:50 <timeless_mbp> yeah, i could arrange for a cpl
Oct 18 21:32:00 <timeless_mbp> if someone builds my thing
Oct 18 21:32:21 <lcuk> whats "your thing"
Oct 18 21:32:26 <wazd> lcuk: cause they can be trademarks :)
Oct 18 21:32:41 <timeless_mbp> i'd need a cpl host which ran my script :)
Oct 18 21:33:37 <lcuk> wazd - yeah and those components are on the device itself
Oct 18 21:33:58 <lcuk> http://maemo.org/intro/
Oct 18 21:34:00 <lcuk> look there
Oct 18 21:34:03 <lcuk> same logos
Oct 18 21:34:08 <lcuk> i think
Oct 18 21:34:23 <wazd> lcuk: well, the device is made by nokia, but Quim asked to remove nokia logo
Oct 18 21:35:30 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: you can now send me link via msg btw :)
Oct 18 21:35:39 <lcuk> good point
Oct 18 21:35:42 <lcuk> make it in the thread
Oct 18 21:35:44 <lcuk> and ask quim
Oct 18 21:36:00 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: I've e-mailed it, but sure :p
Oct 18 21:36:01 <lcuk> tho those components are part of maemo.org
Oct 18 21:36:09 <lcuk> which isnt quite the same as nokia
Oct 18 21:37:44 <javispedro> *sigh* nokia.es just added another 1GiB of RAM N900 ad.
Oct 18 21:38:03 <ShadowJK> lol
Oct 18 21:38:33 <vasily_pupkin> usb host on n900 - dead?
Oct 18 21:39:29 <javispedro> btw, there's kinda on "official" ugly maemo logo: http://c5.img.digitalriver.com/gtimages/store-mc-uri/nokia/assets/local/es-ES/large_images/10195587.jpg look at the lower left corner.
Oct 18 21:40:34 <javispedro> lol, they're now using a broken n900 as artwork for the warranty & servicing page.
Oct 18 21:46:24 <wazd> javispedro: that's not logo
Oct 18 21:46:48 <wazd> javispedro: that's kinda violet rectangle and a label :)
Oct 18 21:47:05 <wazd> javispedro: or blue :)
Oct 18 21:47:06 <javispedro> you have quite an artistical definition for a logo, I've seen worse ones ;)
Oct 18 21:48:15 <lcuk> thats more a logo than some companies use
Oct 18 21:49:24 <Milo-> free bluetooth O_O
Oct 18 21:50:21 <javispedro> well, at that price, they might as well give you a free firstborn offer.
Oct 18 21:50:41 <lcuk> A version used on the CBeebies channel was altered so rather than "couldn't put Humpty together again" all the King's horses "made Humpty happy again".
Oct 18 21:51:04 <lcuk> scrambled eggs!
Oct 18 21:52:25 <javispedro> qwerty12_N810: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=350644&postcount=20
Oct 18 21:52:51 <Corsac> lcuk: over easy!
Oct 18 21:53:09 <javispedro> only pois? horrible
Oct 18 21:53:11 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: I claim fake!
Oct 18 21:53:29 * javispedro clicks thanks button
Oct 18 21:53:44 <vasily_pupkin> Oh looool
Oct 18 21:53:47 <vasily_pupkin> AGPS again
Oct 18 21:53:51 <vasily_pupkin> bu-ha-ha-ha
Oct 18 21:54:07 <javispedro> yeah, I see the GPS fix performance sucks as usual...
Oct 18 21:54:11 <lcuk> every time you use agps god saves a kitten
Oct 18 21:54:21 <lcuk> or was that shaves
Oct 18 21:54:27 <Milo-> better stop using agps then
Oct 18 21:54:29 * javispedro vomits
Oct 18 21:54:53 <lcuk> ok, is it maps that expects the gps to use network
Oct 18 21:54:57 <lcuk> or the low level gps itself
Oct 18 21:55:14 <javispedro> hopefully not. maps with network only is useless.
Oct 18 21:55:28 * javispedro wonders how a guy inside his basement can create a better maps application than nokia.
Oct 18 21:55:48 <Milo-> easily
Oct 18 21:55:49 <vasily_pupkin> heh. again no maps for my poor country
Oct 18 21:56:05 <vasily_pupkin> or may be that navigator supports locked garmin? :]
Oct 18 21:56:20 <Milo-> a guy who hasn't seen the world, has more optimistic idea of world than nokia, that has seen the world
Oct 18 21:56:20 <lcuk> ok, maps comes from a source somwhere else doesnt it
Oct 18 21:56:25 <lcuk> ie isnt it the s60 version
Oct 18 21:56:30 <lcuk> just with restrictions
Oct 18 21:57:19 <javispedro> nokia+navtech, or did they buy the other one? i don't remember
Oct 18 21:58:42 * javispedro votes for "slow gps performance" bug version 2
Oct 18 21:59:06 <ShadowJK> it's pointless
Oct 18 21:59:10 <andre__> vasily_pupkin, which country?
Oct 18 21:59:15 <vasily_pupkin> ukraine :)
Oct 18 21:59:20 <andre__> javispedro, oh yeah :)
Oct 18 22:00:08 <vasily_pupkin> i just can't understand, why not normal surf? how many TI payed to nokia to use that crap?
Oct 18 22:01:14 <andre__> javispedro, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5336 ?
Oct 18 22:01:20 <andre__> or the performance in general?
Oct 18 22:01:39 * javispedro thanks andre__ and votes for that too.
Oct 18 22:01:46 <javispedro> but I mean https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337
Oct 18 22:02:05 <andre__> ahem, right
Oct 18 22:02:12 <javispedro> :)
Oct 18 22:02:17 <andre__> that's what i had in mind. too late here
Oct 18 22:02:28 <andre__> and i probably shouldn't work on sundays anyway :-P
Oct 18 22:02:53 <javispedro> specially sundays at noon.
Oct 18 22:02:57 <javispedro> but I'm doing it too, damn.
Oct 18 22:03:16 <andre__> well, trying to get ubuntu on the third machine. but fails :-P
Oct 18 22:03:34 <ShadowJK> that time to lock without agps sounds similar to my Nokia E75 :-)
Oct 18 22:03:50 <javispedro> and my N810.
Oct 18 22:03:54 <javispedro> *sigh*
Oct 18 22:04:31 <ShadowJK> With AGPS, my N810 is more reliable than my E75 though. Software is kinda flaky on E75
Oct 18 22:04:36 * BBNS_ back from sleep ...
Oct 18 22:05:02 <lcuk> short sleep
Oct 18 22:05:24 <vasily_pupkin> ShadowJK: but without - n810 is a brick
Oct 18 22:05:25 <BBNS_> yeah ... it's a nap. noon here
Oct 18 22:05:39 <ShadowJK> vasily_pupkin, nah :-)
Oct 18 22:05:59 <vasily_pupkin> and another thing that make me angry
Oct 18 22:06:20 * BBNS_ trying to install qt4.6 and qt-creator 1.3 on my mac ...
Oct 18 22:06:37 <vasily_pupkin> sattelites use ordinary orbits
Oct 18 22:07:04 <vasily_pupkin> why this fscked software couldn't calculate AGPS data, when no connection aviable? :]
Oct 18 22:07:24 <lcuk> i never installed agps
Oct 18 22:07:27 <lcuk> on 810
Oct 18 22:07:32 <lcuk> and in the car it works fine
Oct 18 22:07:38 <lcuk> as long as i reboot before using
Oct 18 22:08:08 <vasily_pupkin> ps aux | grep supl
Oct 18 22:08:24 <ShadowJK> ps aux | grep gpsdriver
Oct 18 22:08:33 <ShadowJK> it tends to die
Oct 18 22:09:07 * lcuk goes and tries to sort out packaging
Oct 18 22:25:52 <lcuk> javispedro, the triangle you created
Oct 18 22:26:05 <lcuk> would it take much for me to texturize that
Oct 18 22:26:22 <javispedro> yeah, I couldn't get the png texture loader to work
Oct 18 22:26:27 <javispedro> probably my own incompetence :)
Oct 18 22:26:47 * qwerty12_N810 's N900 refuses to get out of Spanish :)
Oct 18 22:27:30 <Ceron^> muchos grande
Oct 18 22:27:32 <Ceron^> seniorita!
Oct 18 22:27:38 <javispedro> noooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Oct 18 22:28:10 <lcuk> Ceron^, did you just call qwerty a big girl?
Oct 18 22:28:15 <lcuk> if so, cool
Oct 18 22:28:50 <Ceron^> what else could it be? :D
Oct 18 22:29:07 <Ceron^> my spanish aint that good..
Oct 18 22:29:23 <lcuk> well. qwertys will be much better after today
Oct 18 22:29:42 <Ceron^> lcuk: so got any new cool app on the n900?
Oct 18 22:29:45 <lcuk> "inserto el transmissiono and downloado torrento!
Oct 18 22:30:15 <lcuk> Ceron^, i always have cool apps
Oct 18 22:30:22 <lcuk> shame i cant get them off my n900
Oct 18 22:30:25 <qwerty12_N810> Best part is: I don't understand the error :)
Oct 18 22:30:27 <Ceron^> other than the liquidbase
Oct 18 22:30:29 <Ceron^> D:
Oct 18 22:30:31 <lcuk> i fail so hard at linux
Oct 18 22:30:46 <Ceron^> i still dont understand the purpouse of the liquidbase
Oct 18 22:30:50 <javispedro> would you please stop speaking spanish. it reminds me how awful my english must sound. and no, just don't say it does not sound bad and wait until I make the first glaring error, which could even be in this sentence!
Oct 18 22:30:54 <qwerty12_N810> Ah, there we go
Oct 18 22:30:57 <lcuk> Ceron^,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0
Oct 18 22:31:14 <lcuk> javispedro, it does not enter my head that you are not english
Oct 18 22:31:25 <lcuk> my northern is much worse
Oct 18 22:31:43 * qwerty12_N810 can't even speak his mother tongue
Oct 18 22:31:48 <Ceron^> lcuk: so made so that you can stomp and laugh?
Oct 18 22:31:48 <Ceron^> :D
Oct 18 22:31:59 <Ceron^> so its*
Oct 18 22:32:09 <lcuk> yeah
Oct 18 22:32:13 <lcuk> and reflow the contents
Oct 18 22:32:19 <javispedro> heh.
Oct 18 22:32:40 <javispedro> lcuk: I smell the app counting "head banging" damages... $:
Oct 18 22:32:44 <javispedro> err... $)
Oct 18 22:32:53 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo#t=5m20s
Oct 18 22:33:43 <javispedro> you're right, liqflow is really faster in n900.
Oct 18 22:33:52 <lcuk> yeah
Oct 18 22:34:06 <lcuk> i keep pondering how to make it much much faster still
Oct 18 22:34:15 <lcuk> its one of the only things that uses fp
Oct 18 22:34:19 <javispedro> not easy.
Oct 18 22:34:24 <lcuk> so it only has about 200 particles
Oct 18 22:34:25 <javispedro> well, fp => try nenon.
Oct 18 22:34:31 <javispedro> er.. neon.
Oct 18 22:34:35 * lcuk nods
Oct 18 22:34:35 <Ceron^> lcuk: that app is made for some rave party
Oct 18 22:34:39 <Ceron^> go with the flow
Oct 18 22:34:39 <lcuk> i just use c stuffs
Oct 18 22:34:49 <javispedro> you can set your compiler to emit neon instructions
Oct 18 22:34:52 <lcuk> Ceron^, i really wanted to get it working at the summit
Oct 18 22:34:53 <javispedro> but you have to use floats only.
Oct 18 22:35:12 <lcuk> but apparantly getting dynamic location is a hard technical problem
Oct 18 22:35:33 <lcuk> dynamic physical location i mean
Oct 18 22:35:47 <lcuk> placing a group of them together and having them collaborate on the flow
Oct 18 22:35:51 <lcuk> its solvable tho
Oct 18 22:36:04 <lcuk> at the summit i spoke with a load of people about different implementations
Oct 18 22:36:17 <lcuk> Ceron^, you arent wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyMRTNPCVQM
Oct 18 22:36:28 <lcuk> thats projected
Oct 18 22:36:44 <wazd> lcuk: show him torch!
Oct 18 22:36:51 <lcuk> thats on the same video!
Oct 18 22:37:08 <wazd> lcuk: torch totally kicks :D
Oct 18 22:37:24 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo#t=5m03s
Oct 18 22:37:27 <lcuk> there you go!
Oct 18 22:37:28 <javispedro> torch will be the KILLER app
Oct 18 22:37:28 <lcuk> just for you
Oct 18 22:37:44 <lcuk> wazd, the best thing about this video isnt the normal apps
Oct 18 22:37:59 <lcuk> its the fact im doing a multipage presentation with swish effects and live widgets
Oct 18 22:37:59 <wazd> for those who like spanish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngRq82c8Baw
Oct 18 22:38:09 <qwerty12_N810> Oh God, that's not me
Oct 18 22:38:16 <qwerty12_N810> I had a nightmare getting out of it
Oct 18 22:38:53 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: in fact it's funny to watch :D
Oct 18 22:39:30 <Ceron^> lcuk: :)
Oct 18 22:39:38 <javispedro> it's once, stupid.
Oct 18 22:39:45 <javispedro> </evil>
Oct 18 22:40:40 <lcuk> wazd - each page on the presentation can be anything and can include full page kinetics and stuff directly, because im not using the whole surface to do gestures, i can do scrolling and panning on the main widgets
Oct 18 22:40:47 <lcuk> like if i added an rss feed widget
Oct 18 22:40:52 <lcuk> or somesuch
Oct 18 22:41:02 <javispedro> well, gnite folks.
Oct 18 22:41:09 <lcuk> gnite javis
Oct 18 22:41:14 * javispedro patiently waits for vista vm to shut down
Oct 18 22:41:17 <qwerty12_N810> 'night
Oct 18 22:41:32 <wazd> javispedro: nini
Oct 18 22:49:41 <Andril> qwerty12_N810: a n810 user has arrived
Oct 18 22:50:20 <qwerty12_N810> Yes, I am on an N810 :-)
Oct 18 22:50:40 <wazd> Just read "Nokia n900 alternative boob video"
Oct 18 22:50:48 <Andril> what os are u running?
Oct 18 22:50:57 <qwerty12_N810> Diablo
Oct 18 22:50:57 <Ppupnik> hahaha
Oct 18 22:51:21 <Ppupnik> ~lart n810 user
Oct 18 22:51:21 * infobot beats n810 user senseless with a 50lb Unix manual
Oct 18 22:51:38 <Ppupnik> same here
Oct 18 22:51:39 <Andril> same here - just parying for a decent Android port to unlock it's potential
Oct 18 22:51:48 <Ppupnik> hah
Oct 18 22:52:20 * lcuk needs to sort out packaging once again
Oct 18 22:52:35 <lcuk> but at a different level
Oct 18 22:52:49 <lcuk> Stskeeps, did you ping qole abotu a chroot
Oct 18 22:52:59 <qwerty12_N810> I heard they use RPM on Mars...
Oct 18 22:53:14 <lcuk> if we could do our own packaging
Oct 18 22:53:18 <lcuk> i would use source only
Oct 18 22:53:25 <lcuk> and have all the code on a wiki
Oct 18 22:53:42 <lcuk> either that or just make the html parser better
Oct 18 22:54:11 <lcuk> since the presentation shows quite nicely about dynamic loading and display from vb source files
Oct 18 22:54:40 * lcuk wonders whether anyone knows of a good html parser
Oct 18 22:55:29 <SpeedEvil> lynx
Oct 18 22:55:29 * lcuk pokes Pavlov 
Oct 18 22:57:16 <Robot101> lcuk: in python, beautiful soup
Oct 18 22:57:30 <Robot101> lcuk: http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/
Oct 18 22:57:38 <lcuk> but python is ummmm against practically every ideal i hold dear
Oct 18 22:57:53 <Robot101> screen scraping HTML is OK though? :P
Oct 18 22:58:01 <lcuk> no
Oct 18 22:58:09 <lcuk> i wrote a c html parser
Oct 18 22:58:22 <lcuk> the problem is that it only reads my html properly lol
Oct 18 22:58:22 <Robot101> so did I once, but I got better... :D
Oct 18 22:59:09 <Robot101> libxml is good for C + glib, http://xmlsoft.org/
Oct 18 22:59:22 <lcuk> Robot101, this is a presentation in liqbase.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo  its not hard coded anywhere and just loads the presentation and instentiates the dynamic widgets as required
Oct 18 23:00:03 <lcuk> so theres a full complete set of live widgets on different pages
Oct 18 23:00:45 <guysoft42> hey, does anyone here have a debian folder to package .ko files i compiled?
Oct 18 23:01:04 <GAN900> andre__, ping?
Oct 18 23:01:52 <Robot101> guysoft42: debian packaging doesn't work like that - your package build system is meant to compile the stuff too
Oct 18 23:02:44 <lcuk> thanks for libxml
Oct 18 23:02:49 <lcuk> rob-bo, ^
Oct 18 23:02:53 <lcuk> Robot101 even
Oct 18 23:02:59 <Robot101> lcuk: no worries
Oct 18 23:03:14 * timeless_mbp finishes writing a debugging tool
Oct 18 23:03:56 <GAN900> Holy shit
Oct 18 23:04:21 <GAN900> You can't use the FM transmitter while charging?!
Oct 18 23:04:28 <timeless_mbp> um
Oct 18 23:04:31 * timeless_mbp ponders
Oct 18 23:04:58 <GAN900> Awesome, it also wont let you use the fm transmitter after charging either.
Oct 18 23:05:04 <luke-jr> O.o
Oct 18 23:05:08 <luke-jr> fail
Oct 18 23:05:18 <luke-jr> hopefully just software issue
Oct 18 23:05:19 <lcuk> so no in car charging..
Oct 18 23:05:19 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: what do you mean?
Oct 18 23:05:22 <lcuk> ?
Oct 18 23:05:28 <timeless_mbp> there's no ui string for this
Oct 18 23:05:30 <Macer> omg.. there is no way in hell that person in the first van he hit survivied
Oct 18 23:05:33 <timeless_mbp> does it just not work?
Oct 18 23:05:35 <Macer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQcj3Y4IDoo&feature=related
Oct 18 23:05:35 <lcuk> surely that sounds like a bug
Oct 18 23:05:46 <luke-jr> Macer: so what? shush
Oct 18 23:05:52 <luke-jr> Macer: people die in car accidents every day
Oct 18 23:06:26 <SpeedEvil> I suspect it's a regulatory issue.
Oct 18 23:06:42 <Macer> but ouch
Oct 18 23:06:46 <Macer> could you imagine that person
Oct 18 23:06:49 <SpeedEvil> If a lead is plugged in, that will tend to act like an antenna
Oct 18 23:06:50 <Macer> right when they got hit?
Oct 18 23:06:59 <SpeedEvil> increasing the power.
Oct 18 23:07:39 <GAN900> Can't use fm transmitter while usb is connected. Unplug usb to continue using fm transmitter.
Oct 18 23:08:07 <luke-jr> GAN900: is that data-USB or charge-USB?
Oct 18 23:08:16 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, it's throwing that Hildon note at me twice whenever I tap broadcast
Oct 18 23:08:33 <GAN900> luke-jr, iGo MicroUSB tip.
Oct 18 23:08:38 <GAN900> So, charge.
Oct 18 23:08:48 <guysoft42> ok, you got to see what i am uploading to youtube now :)
Oct 18 23:09:26 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, it also basically makes having the damn thing pointless.
Oct 18 23:09:42 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: well - yes. Somewhat.
Oct 18 23:10:08 <GAN900> another slow clap for the FCC
Oct 18 23:10:24 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: I suspect it's an issue that wasn't thought about before regulatory testing, at which point they realised 'ooops - we can't step back the FM transmitter power when plugged in'.
Oct 18 23:10:57 <lcuk> maybe its just a bug
Oct 18 23:11:11 <GAN900> lcuk, clearly not.
Oct 18 23:11:19 <GAN900> There's a giant string for it.
Oct 18 23:11:42 <Robot101> it takes hours of pain in meetings and vast amounts of paperwork and management chain per string
Oct 18 23:11:46 <Robot101> its no accident :P
Oct 18 23:11:51 <GAN900> Rank stupidity.
Oct 18 23:12:12 <SpeedEvil> Wires that are plugged in - that are not intentionally decoupled - the 3.5mm socket will be in order to recieve FM - will tend to act as antennas. So ... :/
Oct 18 23:12:17 <Robot101> unfortunately none of that focuses around whether the string is a good idea :)
Oct 18 23:12:32 <lcuk> 3.5mm headphones as antenna i can see
Oct 18 23:12:38 <timeless_mbp> what's the note say?
Oct 18 23:12:40 <lcuk> but powered usb not normally?
Oct 18 23:12:44 <SpeedEvil> And if they hit regulatory limits with stuff plugged in - they have to turn it off
Oct 18 23:12:48 <guysoft42> Nokia N810 controlling a LED matrix with a Bumble-b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWiJSOuIl5E
Oct 18 23:12:48 <GAN900> Can't use fm transmitter while usb is connected. Unplug usb to continue using fm transmitter.
Oct 18 23:13:10 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: no - 3.5mm is _not_ an antenna for the transmitter probably - due to the design that's used to recieve FM
Oct 18 23:13:21 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, hey, see why i needed to compile the kernel!: Nokia N810 controlling a LED matrix with a Bumble-b
Oct 18 23:13:31 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, ops here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWiJSOuIl5E
Oct 18 23:13:36 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, its used as an antenna
Oct 18 23:13:48 <lcuk> you dont usually find it using power is what i meant
Oct 18 23:13:53 <SpeedEvil> (or if it is, it's an antenna that's only in compliance when nothing else is plugged in)
Oct 18 23:14:16 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: lemme just load it up...
Oct 18 23:15:17 * GAN900 sighs.
Oct 18 23:15:19 <SpeedEvil> It'll be fixed in the n942 :)
Oct 18 23:16:05 <GAN900> timeless_mnp, should I file that text rendering bug in bugs.maemo.org?
Oct 18 23:16:07 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, what do you think? :)
Oct 18 23:16:15 <GAN900> It's to the point where I can't even read zoomed text.
Oct 18 23:16:28 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: we should have a public bug for it
Oct 18 23:16:42 <GAN900> Which makes the whole zoom feature only useful for fitting images. . . .
Oct 18 23:16:44 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: Still loading it up on the N900; N810 and YT don't go :)
Oct 18 23:16:47 <timeless_mbp> but i really don't know what's causing it, and i doubt we'll manage to do something about it
Oct 18 23:16:47 <lcuk> GAN900, can i ask - what do you like about the device :$
Oct 18 23:16:54 <lcuk> you have been a bit of a grump recently
Oct 18 23:17:01 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, you have a N900?
Oct 18 23:17:13 <GAN900> lcuk, because I'm on a bug finding excursion.
Oct 18 23:17:20 <lcuk> timeless, i noticed the same thing on talk.maemo.org with the font there
Oct 18 23:17:22 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: loaned
Oct 18 23:17:23 <GAN900> lcuk, those make me grumpy.
Oct 18 23:17:29 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: it happens everywhere
Oct 18 23:17:36 <lcuk> on my pc
Oct 18 23:17:38 <timeless_mbp> we know, but we haven't really tried to figure it out
Oct 18 23:18:04 <lcuk> i know the n900 is good, but it hasnt got a reality distortion field
Oct 18 23:18:10 <GAN900> Plus, there's not much cause to praise things since the vast majority of people responsible are still holed up.
Oct 18 23:18:16 <lcuk> does it occur with all fonts
Oct 18 23:18:34 * GAN900 will thank timeless and Robot101, though.
Oct 18 23:18:43 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: i don't think i've installed any non standard fonts
Oct 18 23:18:49 <timeless_mbp> my guess is it's some kerning algorithm
Oct 18 23:18:54 <GAN900> Thanks timeless and Robot101! :)
Oct 18 23:18:58 <timeless_mbp> it'd be very good for someone to try some non nokia fonts
Oct 18 23:19:05 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: Nice!
Oct 18 23:19:28 <Ppupnik> yes thanks to all involved with n900 - way to promote linux
Oct 18 23:20:14 <GAN900> Plus any other Nokians/Maemo contractors floating in the room who weren't responsible for screwing more stuff up than they made awesome. ;)
Oct 18 23:20:21 <timeless_mbp> heh
Oct 18 23:20:29 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, do you have a debian config for packaging a kernel module? i want to package the cdc_acm.ko i compiled
Oct 18 23:20:39 <lcuk> lol
Oct 18 23:21:00 <lcuk> GAN900, what about those who made awesome stuff but still screwed up some bits
Oct 18 23:21:14 <Robot101> lcuk: humans? most of the code was written by them actually :D
Oct 18 23:21:20 <lcuk> :D
Oct 18 23:21:25 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: Sorry, I've never attempted to compile a kernel from debian/rules
Oct 18 23:21:39 <lcuk> good job you arent one
Oct 18 23:21:52 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, no, just the .ko file
Oct 18 23:22:14 <guysoft42> i just need a tiny packages. we could upload it to the maemo devel-extras
Oct 18 23:22:26 <guysoft42> its useful, it sould work with any other cdc modems
Oct 18 23:22:39 <qwerty12_N810> extras-devel requires source
Oct 18 23:22:40 <lcuk> why not upload the source
Oct 18 23:22:54 <lcuk> cos it would need compiling for different archs
Oct 18 23:23:01 <lcuk> and your .ko would be built for one
Oct 18 23:23:34 <guysoft42> lcuk, the source is the maemo kernel
Oct 18 23:23:42 <Ppupnik> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/armel/scorched3d
Oct 18 23:24:19 <guysoft42> lcuk, isn't there a way to share kernel modules on the repos?
Oct 18 23:24:28 <guysoft42> someone must have done this
Oct 18 23:24:39 <lcuk> the community kernel quilt!
Oct 18 23:24:46 <lcuk> didnt that get started a while back
Oct 18 23:24:56 <lcuk> wasnt it meant to pull all the kernel mods together
Oct 18 23:25:04 <lcuk> for highspeed mmc and stuff
Oct 18 23:25:56 <lcuk> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/kernels/
Oct 18 23:26:02 <GAN900> lcuk, more than. ;)
Oct 18 23:26:05 <lcuk> qwerty12_N810, you are a member of that group
Oct 18 23:26:06 <GAN900> lcuk, and they can go eat dirt. :P
Oct 18 23:26:09 <guysoft42> lcuk, well, i was hoping for something more user friendly
Oct 18 23:26:09 <CVirus> Is it planned that Qt replaces Hildon ?
Oct 18 23:26:29 <guysoft42> i want to compile now rt73usb
Oct 18 23:26:42 <lcuk> and rt73usb is user friendly?
Oct 18 23:26:43 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: I have a big-ass diff, actually
Oct 18 23:26:50 <lcuk> i havent got the foggiest what it would mean
Oct 18 23:26:57 <lcuk> so it doesnt sound friendly to me
Oct 18 23:27:13 <lcuk> rly qwerty12_N810 o_O
Oct 18 23:27:18 <lcuk> is that as far as it got
Oct 18 23:27:21 <GAN900> qwerty12, go see Zombieland.
Oct 18 23:27:46 <qwerty12_N810> Any good? It's been out since the 9th here
Oct 18 23:28:09 <lcuk> guysoft42,
Oct 18 23:28:15 <lcuk> what does it do
Oct 18 23:28:20 <GAN900> I laughed harder than I did at Hot Fuzz
Oct 18 23:28:27 <GAN900> I _loved_ it.
Oct 18 23:28:28 <lcuk> and why would u ser need it
Oct 18 23:28:57 <guysoft42> lcuk, its a wireless stick
Oct 18 23:29:00 <qwerty12_N810> OK, you've got me convinced. Hot Fuzz was hilarious
Oct 18 23:29:04 <lbt> night all
Oct 18 23:29:47 <GAN900> qwerty12, in some ways I liked it more than Shaun of the Dead.
Oct 18 23:30:11 <qwerty12_N810> Ah, can't compare to that: I've never seen Shaun of the Dead
Oct 18 23:30:15 <GAN900> Though I think that's partially a cultural issue.
Oct 18 23:30:24 <GAN900> Ooooh, see that, too.
Oct 18 23:30:38 <lcuk> shaun was rly rly funny :D
Oct 18 23:31:02 <GAN900> There's a cameo in Zombieland that hard me laughing harder at a movie than I have in years.
Oct 18 23:31:45 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, do you know how to compile a kernel module in sb2, i seem to get make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.30-2-686/build: No such file or directory.
Oct 18 23:32:04 * GAN900 is rebooting to try to fix FM. Back in a sec.
Oct 18 23:32:15 <guysoft42> lcuk, maybe you do?
Oct 18 23:32:41 <lcuk> unfortunately ive never needed to compile anything to do with the kernel ever
Oct 18 23:32:57 <qwerty12_N810> GuySoft: I think I mentioned something about chopping my balls off before I ever touch sb2; so, no, sorry, I wouldn't know :)
Oct 18 23:33:22 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, so how the heck do you compile for maemo?
Oct 18 23:33:27 <lcuk> guysoft42, did you already compile it in sb1
Oct 18 23:33:39 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: sb1
Oct 18 23:33:48 <guysoft42> lcuk, um, i did in sb2..
Oct 18 23:34:00 <guysoft42> whats so bad about sb2?
Oct 18 23:34:15 <lcuk> yeah qwerty12_N810 quick comparison for sb1 and sb2
Oct 18 23:34:21 <lcuk> and why its crap
Oct 18 23:34:27 <lcuk> /not right for you
Oct 18 23:34:41 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, also, how would you do a kernel module in sb1?
Oct 18 23:35:04 <lcuk> get source (including kernel headers) enter folder
Oct 18 23:35:05 <lcuk> type make
Oct 18 23:35:15 <lcuk> same as building anything else
Oct 18 23:35:41 <CVirus> Is Qt going to replace Hildon sometime ?
Oct 18 23:35:49 <guysoft42> lcuk, and how do you point it to the kernel headers?
Oct 18 23:35:50 <GAN900> Hildon Desktop is playing nice again.
Oct 18 23:35:54 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: Dunno, I didn't "get" it, sb2 -e vs fakeroot etc. Just wasn't for me.
Oct 18 23:35:57 <RobertH[AU]> hey everyone, is it normal that when using apt in the sdk no packages can be verified?
Oct 18 23:36:06 <lcuk> CVirus, qt has been penciled in for mainstream nokia use in harmattan
Oct 18 23:36:29 <lcuk> flipping the switch between current status of gtk and qt
Oct 18 23:36:38 <CVirus> lcuk: isn't there a release date for harmattan
Oct 18 23:36:39 <CVirus> ?
Oct 18 23:36:56 <lcuk> i heard it would be out sometime after lunch
Oct 18 23:37:04 <CVirus> lol
Oct 18 23:37:05 <lcuk> not sure what date specifically tho
Oct 18 23:37:14 * GAN900 shivers
Oct 18 23:37:32 <GAN900> Getting cold in Florida.
Oct 18 23:37:45 <CVirus> lcuk: so basically harmattan is the end of GTK/Hildon on maemo ?
Oct 18 23:37:49 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, can you at least try and help me to compile it?
Oct 18 23:37:52 <GAN900> No
Oct 18 23:38:04 <GAN900> It's the end of official support.
Oct 18 23:38:12 <qwerty12_N810> guysoft42: Not while I'm not on a computer, no :)
Oct 18 23:38:12 <CVirus> ah sure
Oct 18 23:38:15 <lcuk> CVirus, it best not be.  theres an lot of VERY good gtk code in all of maemo
Oct 18 23:38:18 <GAN900> It'll be community supported after that.
Oct 18 23:38:30 <luke-jr> lcuk: there is?
Oct 18 23:38:32 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, ah , nevermind then
Oct 18 23:38:37 <CVirus> Qt is the way to go
Oct 18 23:38:44 <GAN900> Much like Python and Qt (until very recently).
Oct 18 23:38:50 <luke-jr> if code uses gtk, it is bad code almost per definition ;)
Oct 18 23:38:55 <CVirus> hehe
Oct 18 23:39:24 <luke-jr> my N810 has gtk masked
Oct 18 23:39:28 <lcuk> luke-jr, of fuck off and make a better toolkit then.  app developers use whatever they can at the time to build their apps
Oct 18 23:39:29 <GAN900> luke-jr, keep the toolkit wars elsewhere, thanks.
Oct 18 23:39:44 <lcuk> and those apps are on the whole good strong things
Oct 18 23:39:49 <guysoft42> qwerty12_N810, got it!
Oct 18 23:39:52 <guysoft42> sb2  make -C ../../kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source/
Oct 18 23:39:55 <lcuk> no developer likes to see their code enter the bitbucket
Oct 18 23:40:11 <guysoft42> thanks to: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20126
Oct 18 23:40:14 <luke-jr> lcuk: Qt
Oct 18 23:40:39 <lcuk> so the devs making maemo apps should just sit on their ass and not develop until its ready?
Oct 18 23:40:51 <luke-jr> it is ready
Oct 18 23:40:53 <luke-jr> has been for years.
Oct 18 23:41:03 <lcuk> so why are people still choosing gtk
Oct 18 23:41:20 <luke-jr> FUD
Oct 18 23:41:37 <GAN900> lcuk, don't feed the trolls.
Oct 18 23:42:11 <luke-jr> lcuk: GTK/GNOME fanboys like to spread FUD that Qt is somehow non-free
Oct 18 23:42:25 <lcuk> luke-jr, stop twisting this argument
Oct 18 23:42:29 <luke-jr> that's basically the entire reason GTK exists
Oct 18 23:42:32 <lcuk> where are the qt apps if its ready for us
Oct 18 23:42:40 <luke-jr> lcuk: plenty of Qt apps
Oct 18 23:42:45 <BBNS_> CVirus, if you are intested what has been going on in Qt, following http://qt.gitorious.org/ and search maemo.
Oct 18 23:42:47 <luke-jr> Arora, KDE, etc
Oct 18 23:42:56 <lcuk> on maemo.
Oct 18 23:43:01 <CVirus> BBNS_: thanks
Oct 18 23:43:06 <qwerty12_N810> luke-jr: This is #maemo. Where are those apps on Maemo?
Oct 18 23:43:10 <lcuk> i know its nearly ready
Oct 18 23:43:13 <luke-jr> lcuk: GTK is part of why Maemo fails it
Oct 18 23:43:14 <lcuk> its really nearly ready
Oct 18 23:43:20 * lcuk gets excited thinking about it
Oct 18 23:43:27 <luke-jr> but apps aren't (or shouldn't be) "Maemo apps"
Oct 18 23:43:29 <luke-jr> they should be apps
Oct 18 23:43:32 <luke-jr> that don't care about platform
Oct 18 23:43:52 <lcuk> ok
Oct 18 23:43:53 <CVirus> couldn't agree less
Oct 18 23:43:57 <lcuk> have you got a maemo device there
Oct 18 23:43:57 <CVirus> errr .. more*
Oct 18 23:43:59 <CVirus> :-S
Oct 18 23:44:16 <luke-jr> lcuk: nope, it runs Gentoo now
Oct 18 23:44:27 <lcuk> have you got kde on it?
Oct 18 23:44:30 <luke-jr> yep
Oct 18 23:44:48 <lcuk> then you win.
Oct 18 23:44:51 <lcuk> bah!
Oct 18 23:44:52 <lcuk> :D
Oct 18 23:44:53 <luke-jr> lol
Oct 18 23:45:05 <CVirus> what runs gentoo ?
Oct 18 23:45:06 * lcuk stretches a hand across the internet
Oct 18 23:45:10 <luke-jr> CVirus: my N810
Oct 18 23:45:13 <CVirus> oh .. cool
Oct 18 23:45:15 <lcuk> how well does it run?
Oct 18 23:45:26 <luke-jr> lcuk: at first, I thought it was too slow cuz of the RAM shortage
Oct 18 23:45:32 <luke-jr> but upon revisiting Maemo's browser
Oct 18 23:45:36 <luke-jr> it's actually better
Oct 18 23:45:47 <lcuk> maybe its just settling in
Oct 18 23:45:52 <lcuk> when i ran portal on my old pc
Oct 18 23:45:52 <Ppupnik> running gentoo on a tablet is a nice accomplishment
Oct 18 23:45:58 <lcuk> the graphics card wasnt upto snuff
Oct 18 23:46:03 <lcuk> but after a few weeks i didnt care
Oct 18 23:46:07 <Ppupnik> which is exactly why not to do it
Oct 18 23:46:07 <luke-jr> I compared Arora, Konqueror, and Maemo for browsing
Oct 18 23:46:12 <luke-jr> surprisingly, Arora won out
Oct 18 23:46:17 <lcuk> most regular folks wont tho
Oct 18 23:46:17 <Ppupnik> hmm
Oct 18 23:46:29 <lcuk> and hence, not quite ready
Oct 18 23:46:44 <lcuk> its like me and liqbase - little hurdles to get over
Oct 18 23:46:48 <lcuk> rather than big humps
Oct 18 23:47:52 <guysoft42> ah wait, that compiles the kernel :-/
Oct 18 23:48:40 <GAN900> luke-jr, not a valid comparison.
Oct 18 23:49:00 <GAN900> As MicroB in Diablo is years out of date.
Oct 18 23:49:03 <lcuk> luke-jr, sometimes you piss me off, tonight you really surprised me.  thank you.  do you blog about getting gentoo on n810?
Oct 18 23:50:03 <luke-jr> lcuk: no
Oct 18 23:50:13 <luke-jr> lcuk: slonopotamus and I maintain a website and repository
Oct 18 23:50:14 <GAN900> So what you've figured out with your little experiment there is that a new WebKit is faster than Gecko from the first Firefox 3.0 alpha
Oct 18 23:50:21 <lcuk> well thats something
Oct 18 23:50:25 <lcuk> where is it?
Oct 18 23:50:32 <luke-jr> GAN900: valid comparison, since there is no newer MicroB for N810
Oct 18 23:50:55 <luke-jr> http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0
Oct 18 23:51:02 <GAN900> luke-jr, not for the conclusions you're attemption to draw.
Oct 18 23:51:18 <GAN900> and Fremantle MicroB should run on Diablo.
Oct 18 23:51:29 <GAN900> s/ion/ing/
Oct 18 23:52:17 <ali1234> i bet arora is still miles faster though
Oct 18 23:53:04 <lcuk> thanks luke-jr :)
Oct 18 23:53:06 <pupnik_> i nove browser "suspend javascript"
Oct 18 23:53:09 <pupnik_> love
Oct 18 23:53:30 <lcuk> btw, luke-jr http://git.slonopotamus.org/?p=fb_text2screen  is coming up with a bad gateway
Oct 18 23:53:54 <lcuk> released sources are there
Oct 18 23:53:58 <luke-jr> lcuk: hmm, I wouldn't know. slonopotamus maintains the git repo and text2screen
Oct 18 23:54:03 <ShadowJK> I don't think tear knows how to kill cpu use when device is idle :/
Oct 18 23:54:10 <ShadowJK> i love that about microb
Oct 18 23:54:15 <luke-jr> lcuk: I use a semi-normal initrd for now
Oct 18 23:54:28 <lcuk> i notice theres a section on chroot
Oct 18 23:54:53 <qwerty12_N810> GAN900: Hmm, is the FM transmitter disabled when charging from a computer, from the wall or both?
Oct 18 23:55:28 <luke-jr> lcuk: Gentoo is always installed via chroot
Oct 18 23:55:39 <luke-jr> qwerty12_N810: he said from the wall
Oct 18 23:55:48 <qwerty12_N810> Ah, thanks
Oct 18 23:55:53 <lcuk> so itsn ot a killer?
Oct 18 23:56:00 <lcuk> os killer rather
Oct 18 23:56:04 <lcuk> it sits alongside
Oct 18 23:56:50 <luke-jr> lcuk: ?
Oct 18 23:57:04 <luke-jr> lcuk: Gentoo is installed via chroot. It can run from a boot.
Oct 18 23:57:34 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: ping
Oct 18 23:58:24 <timeless_mbp> can someone try webwizardry.net/~timeless/msgtest.pl.txt for me?
Oct 18 23:58:27 <timeless_mbp> (requires zenity)
Oct 18 23:58:33 <timeless_mbp> (and gettext)
Oct 18 23:59:14 <ali1234> lcuk: any linux distro can be run from chroot, or not, as you prefer
Oct 18 23:59:24 <ali1234> there's nothing special about it
Oct 18 23:59:37 <luke-jr> ali1234: to a degree
Oct 18 23:59:42 <ali1234> to a degree nothing
Oct 18 23:59:43 <lcuk> as a windows user, i am scared by most things linuxy
Oct 18 23:59:52 <luke-jr> ...
Oct 19 00:00:11 <ali1234> all you need is a kernel that's compatible to all of them
Oct 19 00:00:19 <ali1234> which isn't particularly hard unless you want to run something exotic like android
Oct 19 00:00:20 <pupnik_> ok timeless
Oct 19 00:01:59 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, internal server error with that file
Oct 19 00:02:03 <pupnik_> error 500
Oct 19 00:02:09 <timeless_mbp> ok, hold
Oct 19 00:02:48 <timeless_mbp> webwizardry.net/~timeless/msgtest.txt
Oct 19 00:03:07 <lcuk> luke-jr, ali1234 operating system recursion makes my head hurt. im used to having solid functions to run at the end of a chain
Oct 19 00:03:27 <ali1234> lcuk: wat?
Oct 19 00:03:29 <pupnik_> 404 now
Oct 19 00:03:34 <pupnik_> ahh
Oct 19 00:03:42 <timeless_mbp> 404?
Oct 19 00:03:49 <pupnik_> wrong link
Oct 19 00:04:03 <lcuk> dont worry ali1234 lol, just my head
Oct 19 00:04:27 <ali1234> lcuk: all chroot does is change the location of "/" - literally change root. as such, you end up with a different set of libs in /libs and a different set of binaries in /bin. that's all
Oct 19 00:04:44 <ali1234> there's really no recursion involved
Oct 19 00:05:10 <pupnik_> program gives menu with 3 choices
Oct 19 00:05:25 <timeless_mbp> try the last one as a starting point
Oct 19 00:05:32 <pupnik_> i like zenity
Oct 19 00:05:34 <timeless_mbp> it'll let you wander around things hopefully
Oct 19 00:05:44 <timeless_mbp> once you've gotten comfortable using the last item, try the other two
Oct 19 00:06:18 <timeless_mbp> i'll probably write a startup video switcher using zenity in a bit
Oct 19 00:06:55 <pupnik_> select domain loop timeless
Oct 19 00:07:05 <timeless_mbp> pupnik_: hrm, which path?
Oct 19 00:07:10 <pupnik_> de
Oct 19 00:07:23 <pupnik_> domain, locale, domain, locale
Oct 19 00:07:31 <timeless_mbp> you should be able to cancel out of things
Oct 19 00:07:35 <pupnik_> k
Oct 19 00:07:46 <pupnik_> y3p
Oct 19 00:07:57 <pupnik_> nice
Oct 19 00:08:06 <pupnik_> i will use this yenity
Oct 19 00:08:08 <pupnik_> z
Oct 19 00:08:09 <timeless_mbp> hrm....
Oct 19 00:08:15 <timeless_mbp> i'm not seeing a loop
Oct 19 00:08:20 <timeless_mbp> are you sure you didn't click cancel?
Oct 19 00:08:51 <pupnik_> yes
Oct 19 00:08:57 <pupnik_> soelect locale - de
Oct 19 00:09:04 <pupnik_> select domain comes up
Oct 19 00:09:15 <pupnik_> in domain list is "adduser"
Oct 19 00:09:40 <pupnik_> clickung "adduser" and ok
Oct 19 00:09:57 <timeless_mbp> the title is probably bad
Oct 19 00:09:58 <pupnik_> gives window with title "domain: adduser"
Oct 19 00:10:04 <timeless_mbp> yeah
Oct 19 00:10:04 <pupnik_> and Kocale: de
Oct 19 00:10:21 <timeless_mbp> that last view is the list of strings for adduser/de
Oct 19 00:10:23 <pupnik_> and a two-column empty list with fields ID and Value
Oct 19 00:10:29 <timeless_mbp> if you can suggest a better way to explain this...
Oct 19 00:11:24 <pupnik_> maybe text explaining  what this is about
Oct 19 00:13:16 <timeless_mbp> suggestions welcome ...
Oct 19 00:13:26 <timeless_mbp> the idea is to enable people to review/compare strings
Oct 19 00:13:29 <pupnik_> what is this about?
Oct 19 00:13:40 <pupnik_> ahhhh
Oct 19 00:14:44 <pupnik_> now i get "select domain" and "camera" is only item in list
Oct 19 00:18:13 <timeless_mbp> anyway... i think if you're able to walk around w/o hitting errors, that's a good start
Oct 19 00:18:44 <timeless_mbp> it looks like ru_RU / ham doesn't work right
Oct 19 00:18:46 <timeless_mbp> not sure why
Oct 19 00:19:23 <timeless_mbp> he is breaking something :(~
Oct 19 00:20:04 <pupnik_> mm
Oct 19 00:20:28 <pupnik_> nikce ikdeda
Oct 19 00:22:07 <timeless_mbp> ham in mer 0.16 doesn't seem to handle .installs very well :(
Oct 19 00:23:02 <pupnik_> mmm
Oct 19 00:23:20 <t_s_o> ugh, now thats bothersome, it seems maemo4 enables power saving on the wifi when the display times out for lack of use, even if its been disabled (using wifiinfo for instance)
Oct 19 00:23:38 <greenfly> ok i've spent 15 mins om google with no answers... how do I hit alt on the n900?
Oct 19 00:24:28 <timeless_mbp> greenfly: you don't?
Oct 19 00:24:46 <lcuk> i always thought alt was the blue arrow
Oct 19 00:24:54 <timeless_mbp> nope
Oct 19 00:25:04 <greenfly> really? you'd think there were some way
Oct 19 00:25:09 <timeless_mbp> why?
Oct 19 00:25:21 <lcuk> what is it then timeless
Oct 19 00:25:32 <greenfly> because it is a common key
Oct 19 00:25:46 <timeless_mbp> greenfly: how many typewriters have you met w/ an alt key?
Oct 19 00:25:52 <greenfly> some
Oct 19 00:25:55 <greenfly> ...
Oct 19 00:25:58 <timeless_mbp> typewriters?
Oct 19 00:26:08 <timeless_mbp> how many phones have you met w/ alt keys?
Oct 19 00:26:13 <greenfly> is that really your argument?
Oct 19 00:26:18 <timeless_mbp> no
Oct 19 00:26:33 <timeless_mbp> the real argument is that the idiotic hardware designers decided to limit the number of keys
Oct 19 00:26:40 <timeless_mbp> and you're complaining about the lack of an alt key
Oct 19 00:26:51 <timeless_mbp> when most of the regions complain about the lack of up and down arrows
Oct 19 00:27:32 <greenfly> no I'm not complaining at all, just asking if there were some combo to trigger it
Oct 19 00:28:12 <Ppupnik> we have a pipe key yet
Oct 19 00:28:12 <greenfly> if the answer is "no" then fine. I will work around it
Oct 19 00:28:47 <Ppupnik> greenfly, maybe get xev
Oct 19 00:28:57 <greenfly> Ppupnik: it's available in the symbols
Oct 19 00:29:01 <Ppupnik> aahh
Oct 19 00:29:23 <Ppupnik> do you know pipe shortcut for terminal?
Oct 19 00:29:32 <Ppupnik> ctrl+i is tab
Oct 19 00:30:02 <lcuk> we should make sure keesj's nbutton has pipe and tab
Oct 19 00:30:17 <greenfly> unfortunately no. was lookimg for tab to make irssi easier to use
Oct 19 00:30:35 <greenfly> er for alt
Oct 19 00:31:08 <Ppupnik> ctrl n / p should work
Oct 19 00:31:24 <lcuk> the way the proximity sensor was used for trigger on q3
Oct 19 00:31:30 <lcuk> can that be generically done
Oct 19 00:32:38 <Ppupnik> what triggers proximity
Oct 19 00:32:41 <Ppupnik> shadow?
Oct 19 00:32:54 <Ppupnik> capacitance?
Oct 19 00:32:59 <lcuk> someone said it has ir led
Oct 19 00:33:06 <lcuk> and detectts shine back
Oct 19 00:33:15 <Ppupnik> k
Oct 19 00:33:31 <Ppupnik> i wwant 2p coop robotron on n900
Oct 19 00:35:43 * lcuk doesnt know how to handle liqbase packaging
Oct 19 00:36:36 <Ppupnik> heh i know the confuzzlement
Oct 19 00:37:00 <lcuk> well if i make specific packages for each of the modules i use
Oct 19 00:37:09 <lcuk> i fill up my main menu on n900
Oct 19 00:37:10 <Ppupnik> can we still manually build packages?
Oct 19 00:37:12 <lcuk> with items i never use
Oct 19 00:37:16 <Ppupnik> mhm
Oct 19 00:37:17 <lcuk> cos i run in the playground
Oct 19 00:37:35 <lcuk> its a granuality issue
Oct 19 00:37:58 <lcuk> i dont just want a single package to install liqbase and dump everything in there
Oct 19 00:38:02 <lcuk> thats no better than last year
Oct 19 00:38:12 <lcuk> but i still have lots of apps
Oct 19 00:41:31 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: can you offer a way to generate .desktop files for people?
Oct 19 00:41:40 <timeless_mbp> so that they can choose which items appear in the menu?
Oct 19 00:41:57 <lcuk> not practical really - its a user app
Oct 19 00:42:08 <lcuk> .desktops are stored in root end arent they
Oct 19 00:42:23 <lcuk> i could obviously
Oct 19 00:42:27 <timeless_mbp> have you installed my translation package/
Oct 19 00:42:38 <lcuk> but its the first time
Oct 19 00:42:45 <lcuk> not sure
Oct 19 00:43:01 <lcuk> i installed a load of stuff, but reflashed device recently
Oct 19 00:43:31 <timeless_mbp> you'd remember
Oct 19 00:43:41 <timeless_mbp> but you can look at how i manage that problem
Oct 19 00:44:04 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: Y'know, desktop files do look an awful lot like GLib's GKeyFiles... That could probably be hacked up to dump a desktop file, but, say, liqbase was uninstalled? How would you ensure that the generated desktop files were gone?
Oct 19 00:44:31 <lcuk> yeah qwerty12_N810
Oct 19 00:44:41 <lcuk> the problem actually extends beyond that tho
Oct 19 00:44:50 <lcuk> for another reason :P
Oct 19 00:44:58 <lcuk> we need control panel panels applet
Oct 19 00:45:01 <lcuk> to manage icons
Oct 19 00:45:25 <lcuk> i might just treat everything as widgets
Oct 19 00:45:30 <lcuk> and not even add em to the menu
Oct 19 00:46:21 <timeless_mbp> postrm
Oct 19 00:46:26 <timeless_mbp> can clean up your generated goop
Oct 19 00:46:41 <lcuk> timeless too late
Oct 19 00:46:44 <lcuk> install liqbase
Oct 19 00:46:47 <lcuk> install liqtorch
Oct 19 00:46:55 <lcuk> add icon for liqtorch - using liqbase
Oct 19 00:46:59 <lcuk> remove liqtorch
Oct 19 00:47:02 <lcuk> icon would stay
Oct 19 00:48:11 <liori> symlinks?
Oct 19 00:48:34 <timeless_mbp> any provider would need to have a postrm to kill its file
Oct 19 00:49:17 <liori> if a symlink doesn't work, treat it as not existing; make all desktop files in one place, and let the user symlink the necessary ones to his directory if he want to?
Oct 19 00:49:31 <lcuk> ahhhhhhhhhh
Oct 19 00:49:36 <lcuk> plan b
Oct 19 00:49:39 <timeless_mbp> liori: you're assuming a sane design for the menu chooser
Oct 19 00:49:43 <timeless_mbp> that seems unlikely
Oct 19 00:50:05 <lcuk> install everything with the playground itself as normal
Oct 19 00:50:19 <lcuk> just throw the kitchen sink of liq_lcuk modules
Oct 19 00:50:21 <lcuk> from one package
Oct 19 00:50:32 <lcuk> if user explicitely wants torch from the menu
Oct 19 00:50:48 <lcuk> they can install a specific package which just links to the already existing liq* stuff
Oct 19 00:50:54 <lcuk> .desktop rather
Oct 19 00:51:08 <lcuk> so the package itself is just the desktop
Oct 19 00:51:33 <timeless_mbp> that'd work
Oct 19 00:52:05 <lcuk> makes my standard life easier
Oct 19 00:52:14 <lcuk> cos i would only create a specific package when required
Oct 19 00:52:42 <lcuk> becomes a bit heavier tho
Oct 19 00:52:54 <lcuk> but liqbase is kinda light
Oct 19 00:55:25 <Ppupnik> http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=programmer+needed&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=programmer+needed&fp=38c542da47a26377
Oct 19 00:56:10 <wazd> nini maemo :)
Oct 19 00:56:24 <Ppupnik> cheers
Oct 19 00:57:10 <lcuk> pupnik, whats up
Oct 19 01:00:35 <Ppupnik> tgired
Oct 19 01:01:05 <Ppupnik> listening to greenwald on cair and the nnuclear first strike madmen
Oct 19 02:13:50 <Ppupnik> nerf
Oct 19 02:14:54 <Solarion> stupid U2
Oct 19 02:20:30 <lcuk> Solarion, do you need glasses
Oct 19 02:21:07 <Solarion> lcuk: for what?
Oct 19 02:21:12 <lcuk> reading
Oct 19 02:21:16 <Solarion> reading which?
Oct 19 02:21:33 <lcuk> are you the owner of your "Higher-res screen?" thread
Oct 19 02:21:36 <Solarion> Yes
Oct 19 02:21:52 <Solarion> which one are you?
Oct 19 02:22:04 <lcuk> i am lcuk
Oct 19 02:22:16 <Solarion> did you post there?
Oct 19 02:22:16 <lcuk> i just read it
Oct 19 02:22:19 <lcuk> nahh
Oct 19 02:22:27 <Solarion> ah
Oct 19 02:22:34 <lcuk> i think you are just getting to the limit of your focal length
Oct 19 02:22:36 <Solarion> so what am I allegedly failing to read?
Oct 19 02:22:48 <Solarion> aaah
Oct 19 02:22:50 * GeneralAntilles will always pick higher DPI.
Oct 19 02:22:50 <lcuk> and on some font sizes i get same
Oct 19 02:22:57 <Solarion> this is not an insult; this is an honest quesiton
Oct 19 02:23:01 <Solarion> No, I don't need glasses
Oct 19 02:23:35 <Solarion> I don't think so; my fonts on my lappy are very small too
Oct 19 02:23:46 <Solarion> maybe evince's font rendering sucks; is also possible
Oct 19 02:23:54 <lcuk> is there any focal length where the perceived smudgyeness vanishes ?
Oct 19 02:23:59 <lcuk> lol
Oct 19 02:24:10 <lcuk> yeah theres always problems with font rendering in many places
Oct 19 02:24:17 * lcuk has issues with utf
Oct 19 02:24:20 <Solarion> no; the glyphs are rendered to small for the pixels
Oct 19 02:24:57 <Solarion> It's like I can almost make it out, but the pixels just dont' sufice; the text is too small to fit in the grid
Oct 19 02:25:07 <Solarion> We can chat more about this tomorrow when I don't have to be asleep and I don't have spotty internet link (I hope)
Oct 19 02:25:14 <lcuk> heh as a glasses user im used to that
Oct 19 02:25:16 <Solarion> Cox is coming out tomorrow to fix it
Oct 19 02:25:20 <lcuk> the whole world is kinda smudged
Oct 19 02:25:24 <Solarion> ah
Oct 19 02:25:50 <Solarion> I am far-sighted in one eye and short-sighted in the other, and they seme to compensate for each other
Oct 19 02:25:53 <derf> Evince's font rendering sucks.
Oct 19 02:26:13 <GeneralAntilles> MicroB's font rendering sucks.
Oct 19 02:26:23 <lcuk> why cant we just have infinite resolution displays and true vector based rendering
Oct 19 02:26:35 <derf> lcuk: Because they would still fuck it up.
Oct 19 02:26:37 <lcuk> liqbases font rendering sucks
Oct 19 02:26:47 <lcuk> heh but it would be cool
Oct 19 02:26:52 <lcuk> and solarion would be happy
Oct 19 02:27:08 <Solarion> (and it's a very small amount; no glasses neded)
Oct 19 02:27:08 <Solarion> but I gotta go t o bed; we can chat tomorrow
Oct 19 02:27:08 <Solarion> and the net link is starting to act up again frickin' squirrels
Oct 19 02:27:08 <Solarion> Tree rats, the logt of 'em
Oct 19 02:27:13 <lcuk> using a loupe to read text engraved on the back surface of a gnats wing
Oct 19 02:27:17 <derf> Most of evince's problems are related to hinting and inappropriate substitutions.
Oct 19 02:27:17 <derf> Vector displays wouldn't help it any.
Oct 19 02:27:26 <Solarion> INah; even if you were to think I'd happy; I'd still find a way to be upset and self-righteously indignant
Oct 19 02:27:42 <Solarion> yeah, yay squirrels
Oct 19 02:27:43 <Solarion> sleep
Oct 19 02:27:46 * Solarion &
Oct 19 02:33:54 <timeless_mbp> anyone here familiar w/ sudoers?
Oct 19 02:49:41 <zgold> has anybody had an issue with mydocs mysteriously being mounted readonly sometimes on boot?
Oct 19 02:52:25 <Ppupnik> not i
Oct 19 02:52:44 <Ppupnik> i have had device claim still connected to usb on shutdown
Oct 19 02:52:57 <Ppupnik> isnt monday october 19th release day?
Oct 19 02:53:05 <Ppupnik> can i get firmware then?
Oct 19 02:53:19 <GeneralAntilles> No
Oct 19 02:53:22 <GeneralAntilles> No firmware for you.
Oct 19 02:53:27 <Ppupnik> :(
Oct 19 02:53:34 <zgold> i dont think anybody knows the day for sure yet
Oct 19 02:53:43 <GeneralAntilles> I'm sure somebody does. ;)
Oct 19 02:54:11 <zgold> they may be waiting for code to be ready, who knows
Oct 19 02:54:19 <Ppupnik> most of the actual bugsa need testing for repeatability nand causes
Oct 19 02:55:01 <Ppupnik> du -s /usr/share/* I sort -n
Oct 19 02:55:21 <Ppupnik> can these bloths be optified plx
Oct 19 02:56:16 <Ppupnik> it feels like driving a vw bug stuffed to the gills with a 500 lb woman
Oct 19 02:56:31 <GeneralAntilles> Gross
Oct 19 02:56:53 <Ppupnik> good morning :)
Oct 19 02:57:22 <Ppupnik> .... with the heat turned to full
Oct 19 02:58:09 <GeneralAntilles> That actually sounds nice in this weather. :D
Oct 19 02:59:15 <Ppupnik> i want a japanese rock hot spring type setjup
Oct 19 02:59:28 <Ppupnik> geothermal
Oct 19 02:59:45 <Ppupnik> sit in there all winter like a snow monkey
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 19 02:59:59 2009