**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 02:59:57 2009 Oct 20 03:01:12 I have a pygtk question which is driving me crazy. if i have an iconview full of thumbnails, how the hell do i make it so when you click on one, it calls a function and passes the relevent data Oct 20 03:01:15 i feel like i Oct 20 03:01:19 have tried everything Oct 20 03:01:59 the closest I've gotten is calling iconview.connect("button-press-event", self.function, userdata) Oct 20 03:02:12 but all that does is send the userdata from the last thumbnail appended >.< Oct 20 03:02:33 so. does anyone have any ideas Oct 20 03:02:35 ? Oct 20 03:02:52 maybe Oct 20 03:04:15 okay... Oct 20 03:05:21 code177, http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pygtktutorial/advancedwidgets/ Oct 20 03:05:40 looks like a great example Oct 20 03:06:22 * code177 reads Oct 20 03:07:22 o_O maybe not Oct 20 03:07:26 that does multiselect Oct 20 03:07:31 and doesnt try to identify click Oct 20 03:09:20 hmm Oct 20 03:09:44 all i need to do is call a function with the thumbnail id Oct 20 03:09:49 maybe pygtk is incomplete? Oct 20 03:09:51 who knew that would be so difficult Oct 20 03:10:01 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php meh :( Oct 20 03:11:58 can you put an eventbox in a liststore? Oct 20 03:12:33 oh nevermind. then i'd be back to square one Oct 20 03:12:36 hmmm Oct 20 03:13:16 whay are you trying to do Oct 20 03:13:27 ie what icons etc Oct 20 03:13:33 maybe there is an alternative Oct 20 03:13:50 well I'm building this wallpaper manager that runs off n900wallpapers.com, right Oct 20 03:14:03 so i have my thumbnails in an iconview as pixbufs Oct 20 03:14:06 the one b-man and co are hacking at Oct 20 03:14:22 hmm? Oct 20 03:15:06 so in order to get to the window for individual wallpaper i'm going to need the id Oct 20 03:15:28 also, who's hacking at what now? Oct 20 03:16:20 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33000 Oct 20 03:16:27 had to find the thread Oct 20 03:16:32 i think you guys are together Oct 20 03:17:03 if not, you should be :P Oct 20 03:17:15 ahhh wallpaprts Oct 20 03:17:18 ya lol Oct 20 03:17:20 and startup screens! Oct 20 03:17:23 still Oct 20 03:17:23 ! Oct 20 03:17:24 yes Oct 20 03:17:30 dont double up on code Oct 20 03:17:30 eventually the two will come together im sure Oct 20 03:17:34 its basically the same thing Oct 20 03:17:48 talk about how each other are implementing it and share ideas Oct 20 03:17:52 and make the best of both Oct 20 03:18:18 have you seen the liqbase image selector? Oct 20 03:18:34 well.. looking at what they're up to it seems pretty different at the moment Oct 20 03:18:43 aside from selecting images.. Oct 20 03:18:50 nope.. should i? Oct 20 03:18:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjDEvXueO0I Oct 20 03:19:04 this is the graffiti wall Oct 20 03:19:20 ill find a bit with image select in ;) Oct 20 03:19:29 ooh yeah Oct 20 03:19:32 i saw that earlier Oct 20 03:20:07 anyhow, this doesn't solve my initial issue ;) Oct 20 03:20:14 hehe i know Oct 20 03:20:24 this should be really simple Oct 20 03:20:30 i think i must be missing something Oct 20 03:20:42 whats the actual iconview class called Oct 20 03:20:45 is it just iconview Oct 20 03:21:07 yeah Oct 20 03:21:38 model = gtkListStore(gtk.gdk.Pixbuf) Oct 20 03:21:38 gallery = gtk.IconView(model) Oct 20 03:21:48 with some model.append in between Oct 20 03:23:52 ello ello Oct 20 03:24:19 looks like 'N900 shipping' thread is gonna burst. Oct 20 03:24:42 probably Oct 20 03:24:56 what with almost doubling its post count in less than a week Oct 20 03:25:44 sooon .... ya shall be granted! Oct 20 03:26:15 i'm surprised t.m.o has gotten so many users Oct 20 03:26:21 that is nice Oct 20 03:26:32 In the on_item_activated() method, we react to an event, which is generated, when we click on a icon from the icon view widget. Oct 20 03:26:35 well 'so many' is subjective Oct 20 03:26:41 http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pygtktutorial/advancedwidgets/ Oct 20 03:26:45 same page as before Oct 20 03:26:47 it was there Oct 20 03:26:48 just hiding Oct 20 03:27:24 code177, ^ Oct 20 03:27:50 yeah i'm staring at that right now, coincidentally Oct 20 03:27:52 pupnik: N900 is pretty big, its announcement came at just the right time Oct 20 03:27:56 what i dont get: Oct 20 03:27:58 lol Oct 20 03:28:17 are path and isDir setting from each individual icon, or somewhere else? Oct 20 03:28:19 there's still no equivalent GSM android phone that I'm aware of Oct 20 03:28:20 i'm not seeing it Oct 20 03:28:27 maybe i've been staring at the screen too long Oct 20 03:28:34 perhaps you have Oct 20 03:28:41 i know i have Oct 20 03:28:56 microlith, i can't imagine myself writing shader code on droid. =P Oct 20 03:29:00 i think the device is pretty much as close to perfect as i'd hoped-for Oct 20 03:29:20 BBNS: can you write shader code on n900? Oct 20 03:29:26 Solarion, yep Oct 20 03:29:28 w00t Oct 20 03:29:31 * code177 keeps staring Oct 20 03:29:34 BBNS: I want flops, dangit Oct 20 03:29:42 * Solarion flogs the DSP Oct 20 03:29:56 Solarion, you can write DSP code too. that's a bit hacky. Oct 20 03:30:01 lcuk: " self.store.append([fl, self.dirIcon, True])" - what's going on here? Oct 20 03:30:01 * lcuk offers code177 some bacon Oct 20 03:30:02 hacky wrt what? Oct 20 03:30:07 i dunno Oct 20 03:30:10 hmm Oct 20 03:30:10 i dont write gtk Oct 20 03:30:13 lcuk: push button? Oct 20 03:30:18 * code177 looks up .append again Oct 20 03:30:29 lcuk: aw. I've only been writing it for.. 2 days Oct 20 03:30:30 receive bacon Oct 20 03:30:34 lcuk: :) Oct 20 03:30:52 BBNS: is likely less hacky than trying to do GPGPU with shader code (though I'd dearly love to try....) Oct 20 03:31:03 DSP + shader = win? Oct 20 03:31:28 Solarion, GPGPU on N900 is easy. Oct 20 03:31:38 oh? Oct 20 03:31:41 folding@pocket Oct 20 03:31:47 What do people think about the WoG thing? Oct 20 03:31:48 DANGITIWANTONESOBADLYNOW Oct 20 03:31:53 Solarion, DSP i am not sure. you could use OpenMax or Gstreamer dsp plug-in Oct 20 03:32:02 Solarion: join the club Oct 20 03:32:04 BBNS: there's an interface into it Oct 20 03:32:10 dmj7261: I don't get discount. :( Oct 20 03:32:14 I have crappy pay Oct 20 03:32:24 I don't get the discount either. Oct 20 03:32:27 hopefully it'll come bundled with some carrier. Oct 20 03:32:31 i don't have discount too. =P don't be sad. Oct 20 03:32:36 pupnik: brings new meaning to the phrase "hot pocket" Oct 20 03:32:37 * pupnik lets the slave drop peeled grapes into his mouth as he fondles the n900 Oct 20 03:32:40 dmj7261: let us commiserate Oct 20 03:32:44 lol Oct 20 03:32:47 BBNS: bah, you probably get paid decently Oct 20 03:32:51 It looks like the one phone I've been looking for for years Oct 20 03:33:02 BBNS: do you have link on gpgpu/n900? Oct 20 03:33:25 iphone (and more and more) android rubbed me wrong Oct 20 03:33:25 can anyone comment on it's depth? Oct 20 03:33:25 Solarion, nope. but you could port some shaders to it. Oct 20 03:33:26 what was it about android, dmj7261 ? Oct 20 03:33:29 never had either, but the restrictions were unacceptable Oct 20 03:33:35 k Oct 20 03:33:39 * Solarion calculates the band stucture of InGaAs with pseudopotentials on hs imaginary n900 Oct 20 03:33:42 it's roughly 2x fatter than an E71, I'm worried how that sits in your pocket Oct 20 03:33:45 It wasn't as Linuxy as my Ubuntu Oct 20 03:34:00 smelled wrong to me so i didn't even wander close Oct 20 03:34:10 BBNS: tmk, shaders aren't identical to GPGPU Oct 20 03:34:16 they can be hacked into it, but they're not the same Oct 20 03:34:32 * Solarion hasn't actually misused shaders for this, however, so this is hearsay Oct 20 03:34:46 I need to blather less and do more Oct 20 03:34:48 Is it just me, or does every thread ChristExaport participate in devolve into endless bickering? Oct 20 03:34:51 Solarion, it's possible. at least I have wrote some DSP code based on shaders. Oct 20 03:34:58 BBNS: link? Oct 20 03:35:03 there are nice n-body simulations of the big-bang done on gpus (youtube etc) Oct 20 03:35:08 Is there gonna be an OpenCL ES? :) Oct 20 03:35:11 Solarion, no link. just my small toy. Oct 20 03:35:17 aww Oct 20 03:35:23 can I play with your toy? Oct 20 03:35:34 I promise to not not break it. Oct 20 03:35:35 the NeXT did fractal rendering on the motorola 56k dsp back around 1992 Oct 20 03:36:05 probably Oct 20 03:36:11 there's good stuff out there Oct 20 03:36:11 Solarion, i don't have it. but you can check "SIFT on GPU" http://www.cs.unc.edu/~ccwu/siftgpu/ Oct 20 03:36:35 BBNS: what resource would you recommend to learn OGL ES? Oct 20 03:36:51 * Solarion got the OGL 2 Book (Orange?) back a few years ago Oct 20 03:37:01 I learned from PowerVR SDK. Oct 20 03:37:15 there is a OGL ES2 book (purple) Oct 20 03:37:26 but there are some errors in the book. Oct 20 03:37:42 some codes never compiled correctly. Oct 20 03:38:17 hmm Oct 20 03:38:24 Is PowerVR SDK generally available? Oct 20 03:38:37 its included in the maemo sdk Oct 20 03:38:47 yeah, there is one specific for maemo too. Oct 20 03:38:49 runs in software on your pc Oct 20 03:38:59 and same code on hardware on your device Oct 20 03:39:05 ah, cool Oct 20 03:39:10 :) theres a virtual image i think even Oct 20 03:39:13 * Solarion has the maemo sdk going Oct 20 03:39:22 http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/sdk/KhronosOpenGLES2xSGX.asp Oct 20 03:39:29 yeah, its lookin quite good, not sure on any performance levels Oct 20 03:39:32 I just gotta figure out how to get the hardware. :( Oct 20 03:39:35 i barely touch the 3d Oct 20 03:39:49 performance is decent i said. Oct 20 03:40:13 i know on the device its sweet Oct 20 03:40:18 Solarion: sit back and wait like the rest of us :) Oct 20 03:40:24 microlith: I need cash too Oct 20 03:40:41 well, I guess longer then :) Oct 20 03:40:44 * lcuk looks for his stylus Oct 20 03:40:45 maybe I can go to the next loaner-hardware group Oct 20 03:40:51 gonna wait quite a while. :( Oct 20 03:41:10 Solarion, write an app and impress the community then you will get discount. =P Oct 20 03:41:21 Solarion, are you near any of the nokia main stores? Oct 20 03:41:46 if so, write an app that will knock our socks off and go show it at one of the parties on real hardware :D Oct 20 03:42:13 lcuk: probably not Oct 20 03:42:17 haha Oct 20 03:42:33 what did you want the 3d for then Oct 20 03:42:42 lcuk: gpgpu Oct 20 03:42:52 BBNS: I have app, but it sucks (yet) Oct 20 03:43:04 it shall soon suck less Oct 20 03:43:13 what does it do Oct 20 03:43:37 lcuk: it displays semiconductor material information in a 2D plot of property x vs y Oct 20 03:43:59 I'll include a sample file to help people get it at least run and dipslaying stuff Oct 20 03:44:08 is that all gpgpu can do? Oct 20 03:44:11 very useful if you're working in semiconductors. :) Oct 20 03:44:12 could i use it in liqbase Oct 20 03:44:16 No, GPGPU isn't needed Oct 20 03:44:22 to do extra fluid dynamics calcs Oct 20 03:44:26 still use cpu for rendering Oct 20 03:44:39 GPGPU would be used for small-scale computations (say, for instance, the band diagram of a material) Oct 20 03:44:43 powervr for the dynamics Oct 20 03:44:55 have you seen liqflow? Oct 20 03:45:02 nope Oct 20 03:45:20 * Solarion does solid state Oct 20 03:45:27 ah, time's up. Gotta go Oct 20 03:45:38 at least cox fixed our network connection. Down with squirrels!! Oct 20 03:45:43 * Solarion & Oct 20 03:45:54 ciao Oct 20 03:46:06 (seriously, we need fewer tree rats in the world) Oct 20 03:46:23 Solarion, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo#t=5m18s lol Oct 20 03:46:39 damn you goin - i would like that with more particles Oct 20 03:47:14 if i could do the fluid dynamics itself on gpu, it could be quite interesting Oct 20 03:49:23 " Oct 20 03:49:33 At the moment, I can't say much about the secondary (front-facing) camera other than it is there and offers VGA (640x480) resolution for both stills and videos (in H.263 format). " Oct 20 03:49:39 http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php?page=4 Oct 20 03:49:40 heh Oct 20 03:50:20 \o/ Oct 20 03:50:27 success! Oct 20 03:51:12 it's really obvious Oct 20 03:51:13 lol Oct 20 03:52:38 haha Oct 20 03:54:27 here's teh solution: Oct 20 03:54:34 model = gtk.ListStore(str, gtk.gdk.Pixbuf) # str is going to be our id field Oct 20 03:54:39 model.append([item['id'], pixbuf_data]) # add to list.. Oct 20 03:54:47 gallery = gtk.IconView(model) # make it into an icon view Oct 20 03:54:47 gallery.connect('selection-changed', self.selectThumb, model) # add signal thingy Oct 20 03:54:53 def selectThumb(self, icon_view, model=None): Oct 20 03:54:53 selected = icon_view.get_selected_items() Oct 20 03:54:58 i = selected[0][0] Oct 20 03:54:58 self.awesomeFunction(model[i][0]) # passes id to our function (opens new window) Oct 20 03:54:59 done! Oct 20 03:56:22 quit sleep................................xDD Oct 20 03:56:35 err Oct 20 03:56:50 damn, I meant to type '/quit Oct 20 03:56:52 heh Oct 20 03:56:53 '*' Oct 20 03:56:56 :P Oct 20 04:03:26 any update on the n900's shipping? Oct 20 04:03:41 * lcuk sleeps Oct 20 04:04:01 there's a highly cogent, brief and informative thread on it on t.m.o Oct 20 04:04:06 or wait, not. Oct 20 04:04:16 whats t.m.o. ? Oct 20 04:04:16 gnite lcuk Oct 20 04:04:20 talk.maemo.org Oct 20 04:04:23 the maemo forum? Oct 20 04:04:45 the "did your n900 ship today" one? thats turned into nonsense hasnt it? Oct 20 04:04:52 i have the scotti bros acid jazz compilation from 1992 i think Oct 20 04:04:54 or 91 Oct 20 04:04:58 lol yes Oct 20 04:05:14 nice pupnik Oct 20 04:05:36 damn Oct 20 04:05:45 you guys really went to down on that gigaom.com "review" Oct 20 04:05:45 lol Oct 20 04:05:49 *went to town Oct 20 04:06:04 ( http://gigaom.com/2009/10/19/nokia-n900/ ) Oct 20 04:06:09 can you translate that to old person talk? Oct 20 04:06:31 heh nm Oct 20 04:06:35 lol Oct 20 04:06:44 the gigaom review was written by an apple fanatik Oct 20 04:06:56 ty - i would like to see their opinions Oct 20 04:06:59 who really wanted a nokia iphone Oct 20 04:07:07 So how does it stack up against the iPhone 3GS? It is a heavier and thicker and missing the sleekness of the Apple device. Oct 20 04:07:21 how does it stack up against hte iphone? its not a freaking iphone! Oct 20 04:07:23 its got a keyboard! Oct 20 04:07:52 ill translate this too : Oct 20 04:07:53 I am not a great fan of the resistive screen technologies and it is no surprise that I found interacting with the phone via touchscreen extremely painfully. Maybe it is my brain, wired to look for an iPhone like functionality, but N900.s touch features are extremely challenging Oct 20 04:08:02 here he's saying how the n900 is not an iphone Oct 20 04:08:14 and was expecting it to transform into an iphone while playing w/ it Oct 20 04:08:34 and he has reported that it is still not an iphone nor has it transformed into an iphone while writing his review Oct 20 04:08:38 tbf all his review did is remind me how much i dont want an iphone Oct 20 04:08:47 exactly Oct 20 04:08:50 and really impressed upon me the "toy" aspect of the iphone Oct 20 04:09:12 he certainly missed most of the points where n900 absolutely stomps iphone Oct 20 04:09:40 i have an ipod touch and it's easily the best bit of tech i've bought in years.. but c'mon. iphone/touch and n900 are very different animals Oct 20 04:09:54 that hires n900 intro video has absolutely blown everyone away who has seen it on that screen Oct 20 04:09:58 10 pixels per millimeter... Oct 20 04:10:11 Om Malik is borderline retarded. Oct 20 04:10:29 He spends most of the review saying "it's amazing!" and then 6/10? Oct 20 04:10:49 within minutes i was making use of the multitasking Oct 20 04:10:52 ... Oct 20 04:11:18 completely different workflow Oct 20 04:11:39 * code177 wishes he had an n900 Oct 20 04:11:42 He says almost nothing negative at all but it's clear he worships his iphone. Oct 20 04:11:54 * code177 is saving his pennies Oct 20 04:12:22 will amazon have nokia ship it to us? or route through an amazon warehouse? Oct 20 04:14:49 I've never heard of that before. Oct 20 04:20:48 * dmj7261 is worried about abusing the multitasking ability of the web browser Oct 20 04:21:17 dmj7261: There's nothing to worry about at all then. Oct 20 04:21:40 I've abused this horribly on my netbook. Oct 20 04:22:55 what opening 100000 windows? Oct 20 04:23:06 By the way you can run Ubuntu (with compiz)with several pidgin long conversations, a dozen large open office documents, and around a hundred tabs in firefox on a netbook with 1GB ram Oct 20 04:23:36 That's not my typical number of tabs but I have used that many before Oct 20 04:23:47 I don't know why anyone would want more than a few tabs open in Firefox at a time anyways. Oct 20 04:24:29 Short term bookmarks. I'm hoping that I won't carry over those habits to the n900 Oct 20 04:24:46 I end up having a bunch of tabs open Oct 20 04:25:02 Various threads that I've just left hanging until I get a chance to get back to 'em Oct 20 04:25:06 n8 Oct 20 04:25:11 I don't think I've ever gone past 8. Oct 20 04:25:18 That's what I do to. Oct 20 04:26:35 8? amature Oct 20 04:26:57 when the tabs on my tab bar get to small I just open up a new window Oct 20 04:27:04 Only ever active in maybe 3 at a time. If I have 8 its just because I've been lazy about closing them. Oct 20 04:27:08 it's like a breadcrumb trail Oct 20 04:27:40 you get to some far off land and are like, "WTF how did I get here and how do I get home." Oct 20 04:27:47 Yeah, i tend to have multiple pages branch off from a single page, which I open in new tabs Oct 20 04:27:49 and how do I find it again! Oct 20 04:27:56 Isn't that what your browser history is for? Oct 20 04:27:58 boom, tab trail Oct 20 04:28:05 browser history is evil Oct 20 04:28:22 I think people do shit like that because they just don't realize there are better ways to do things. Oct 20 04:28:22 Just think, now you can do this on a phone! Oct 20 04:28:27 !!! Oct 20 04:28:29 * Proteous explodes Oct 20 04:28:48 i'd be happy with a phone that loads webpages in a reasonable time... Oct 20 04:29:01 It does. Oct 20 04:29:01 In all seriousness I probably won't. That's what my netbook is for. Oct 20 04:29:52 netbook keyboard is more annoying than thumbboard Oct 20 04:30:17 back on the A30 here and it is like butter Oct 20 04:30:27 I've typed 50,000 word docs on my netbook, it's comfortable. Oct 20 04:30:55 I'm hoping I'll be able to type well on a thumbboard too. Oct 20 04:31:07 I've never had a phone with qwerty. Oct 20 04:32:42 * dmj7261 has been turning his nose up at phones for too long. Oct 20 04:37:43 so how is dosbox on n900 Oct 20 04:37:58 works, but you cannot type :) Oct 20 04:38:05 last i tried Oct 20 04:38:06 i haven't bought a phone yet Oct 20 04:38:08 heh ok Oct 20 04:38:22 but it ran atleast Oct 20 04:38:44 do you know the cpu cache info? Oct 20 04:38:47 now that developers have devices its likely to improve Oct 20 04:38:52 i think omap2420 had 16kb data and inst Oct 20 04:38:54 no, sorry Oct 20 04:39:00 iB Oct 20 04:39:00 wait Oct 20 04:39:27 do you think i should beg for a signed image or wait for the official one Oct 20 04:39:53 /proc/cpuinfo doesnt say Oct 20 04:39:58 signed image? Oct 20 04:40:14 well some folks can get issued individual images under NDA for flashing n900s Oct 20 04:40:19 ah Oct 20 04:41:02 ok guys Oct 20 04:41:03 do you know if flasher can instruct kernel to boot into console? Oct 20 04:41:19 no Oct 20 04:41:23 afaik Oct 20 04:41:24 http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/rx51-n900/scr/scr33.jpg <-- anyone know how to get a list to look like this? (disregarding the images) Oct 20 04:41:26 would be useful Oct 20 04:42:02 with pygtk i assume Oct 20 04:42:27 well that much I have.. Oct 20 04:42:33 theres serial console but it needs hw Oct 20 04:44:53 hi, does n900 use alsa? Oct 20 04:46:21 uses pulseaudio for sure--which alsa can output to? Oct 20 04:47:38 other way around. Oct 20 04:48:51 well both goes.. pulse has dsp plugins i guess Oct 20 04:48:55 Stskeeps, i was just wondering if it using the TI's DASF audio system? Oct 20 04:50:07 is it? Oct 20 05:00:48 Alright, timeless_mbp, pretty sure I'm passing you on Bugzilla reported next karma recalc. :P Oct 20 05:06:27 morning, too Oct 20 05:06:48 GeneralAntilles: I don't suppose _you_ know how that list is made, by any chance? Oct 20 05:07:00 mourning indeed Oct 20 05:07:02 Which list? Oct 20 05:07:13 http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/rx51-n900/scr/scr33.jpg Oct 20 05:07:18 it is described at the site Oct 20 05:08:06 do you mean karma or the screenshot? Oct 20 05:08:06 Codewise or? Oct 20 05:08:40 Yeah - I've been trying to figure this out for a couple of days now. It doesn't appear to be a treeview with 2 columns, if it is, the styling info is... hard to find. Oct 20 05:08:49 Oh, dunno. Oct 20 05:08:56 balls =/ Oct 20 05:09:21 morning GA Oct 20 05:09:30 Thanks anyway Oct 20 05:09:40 code: it can be owner-drawn Oct 20 05:09:45 * code177 scratches beard Oct 20 05:10:14 RST38h: I'm afraid youll have to be more specific. I'm new at this whole app development thing :) Oct 20 05:10:36 most toolkits let you draw each list item mnaually Oct 20 05:11:13 where you get a callback with rectangle and draw your list entry in that rectangle, in your own code Oct 20 05:11:18 this may be one of these cases Oct 20 05:11:24 Ah. I'm using Python+GTK Oct 20 05:11:58 Thing is, this type of list seems to be all over the screenshots Oct 20 05:12:08 so i'm figuring there must be some consistency here Oct 20 05:12:16 and therefore there's a specific way of doing this Oct 20 05:12:18 just one place in the system - web bookmarks Oct 20 05:14:23 i'm trying to find some more good example screenshots Oct 20 05:14:39 ask on devel mailing list? Oct 20 05:14:44 and wait a bit Oct 20 05:14:56 maybe the master layout guide has something Oct 20 05:15:29 * GeneralAntilles likes his blank flickr titles and wishes the sharing plugin would stop insisting on screwing with them. Oct 20 05:15:58 * RST38h would just like a picasa plugin Oct 20 05:16:15 GeneralAntilles: you weirdo :) Oct 20 05:16:32 tigert, some things just don't need titling. Oct 20 05:16:36 heh Oct 20 05:16:41 http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/maemo5/scr/themes/themes4.jpg Oct 20 05:16:51 In those cases, 1857[14357_109512384712847a.jpg isn't any better. ;) Oct 20 05:17:04 http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/maemo5/scr/contacts/cont08.jpg <- the phone has it too Oct 20 05:17:09 sorry, contacts Oct 20 05:17:23 and the opposite way: http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/maemo5/scr/contacts/cont04.jpg Oct 20 05:17:45 darn Oct 20 05:17:46 code177, well, you should be able to grab the theme picker source somewhere. Oct 20 05:17:57 missed my next tram by ten seconds Oct 20 05:18:11 while typing on the n900 while walking? ;) Oct 20 05:18:25 * GeneralAntilles hasn't gotten the knack of that yet. Oct 20 05:18:32 Stskeeps: yeah Oct 20 05:18:40 commuting is good time for irc Oct 20 05:19:04 and for listening to soma.fm :) Oct 20 05:19:05 I did learn that children under 21 are no longer allowed in the movie theater downtown after 10 PM when I nearly tripped over the sign, however. Oct 20 05:19:32 hehehe Oct 20 05:19:47 new things you literally bump into! :) Oct 20 05:19:58 GeneralAntilles: Any idea where? Oct 20 05:20:00 2 mins for tram, luckily Oct 20 05:20:18 They replaced the arcade with a bar to try to increase business and stay bankruptcy. <_< Oct 20 05:20:26 code177: found master layout guide yet? Oct 20 05:20:44 code177: I'll search the wiki too, hold a bit Oct 20 05:20:58 General: next year they will have a strip joint there. Oct 20 05:21:05 * code177 looks Oct 20 05:21:06 code177, maybe here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/h/hildon-desktop/ Oct 20 05:21:33 They'd do better business if they put a McDonalds in. Oct 20 05:22:58 tigert: i rather liked that your tram stops say when the trams are coming Oct 20 05:23:08 Master Layout guide only has design specs =/ Oct 20 05:24:27 GeneralAntilles: Yup, hd-theme.c is in there.. Oct 20 05:24:35 problem is I don't know C :) Oct 20 05:24:54 Stskeeps: yea its nice Oct 20 05:24:58 * code177 peruses Oct 20 05:25:05 code177: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide Oct 20 05:25:15 GeneralAntilles: so true Oct 20 05:25:21 code177: still looking for that correct section Oct 20 05:26:01 GeneralAntilles: They should've put in a Nokia store :P Oct 20 05:26:10 bah, this file is telling me nothing :( Oct 20 05:26:30 code177: md5sum it and you'll get a few octets, at least! Oct 20 05:26:32 * GeneralAntilles doesn't want to argue with a Google employee about Android. Oct 20 05:26:38 code177: but, wisget spec and style guide Oct 20 05:26:49 are the places to starrt from Oct 20 05:27:10 tigert: I checked those, couldn't find anything =/ Oct 20 05:27:16 Who knows, maybe the Google employee is a maemo fan. Oct 20 05:27:22 code177: yea Oct 20 05:27:34 * tigert wishes those were in wiki Oct 20 05:27:37 linkable Oct 20 05:28:00 Well, there's hd-decor-button.c Oct 20 05:28:04 this is a little more promising Oct 20 05:30:16 hmm Oct 20 05:30:23 It's time for Talk to implement more agressive thread locking. Oct 20 05:30:31 I wish they were as concerned about telling us how to make these widgets as they are telling us about when the different margin constants should be used Oct 20 05:30:41 you want to do the list like in app manager? Oct 20 05:30:52 knowing when to use HILDON_MARGIN_DOUBLE is useless to me if I have nothing to use it on Oct 20 05:30:52 dmj7261, he is, but he's apparently been blinded by Android. Oct 20 05:31:28 Android doesn't offer a cure to the fragmentation that's been holding mobile Linux back for years. Oct 20 05:31:58 It just perpetuates it. Oct 20 05:32:31 * code177 flails Oct 20 05:32:37 GAN900: what fragmentation? Oct 20 05:33:05 thux: support gets hacked together in a branch and never cleaned up for merging to mainline Oct 20 05:33:26 ah Oct 20 05:34:00 I have hope open gsm drivers to come up now when linux in gsm Oct 20 05:34:19 like open wlan drivers came Oct 20 05:34:22 thux, notice that there's nothing approaching a standardized mobile Linux platform. Oct 20 05:34:31 code177: so tou want a list picker? Oct 20 05:34:42 thats hildon touch selector, hold on Oct 20 05:34:53 GAN900: ok i see Oct 20 05:35:20 You have Android, webOS, LiMo, Angstrom, Archos, Motorola, etc, etc Oct 20 05:35:27 GAN900: nor desktop Oct 20 05:35:31 GAN900: that's not a problem Oct 20 05:35:33 All going in wildly different directions. Oct 20 05:35:35 Well i dont need to be able to select things, i need them to work as function calls Oct 20 05:35:37 the problem is the vendors Oct 20 05:35:47 * code177 looks up hildontouchselector Oct 20 05:35:57 luke-jr it's a helluva lot closer. Oct 20 05:36:10 GAN900: not really Oct 20 05:36:13 there's numerous WMs Oct 20 05:36:15 At least you can depend on having X, usually. Oct 20 05:36:22 ok, true Oct 20 05:36:27 but most embedded have X too Oct 20 05:36:31 these days Oct 20 05:36:36 No they don't Oct 20 05:36:44 most means over 50% Oct 20 05:36:45 so yes Oct 20 05:36:53 code177: but you wqant a list in a dialog to select stuff, or what? Oct 20 05:36:58 when there's a display involved anyhow Oct 20 05:36:58 Android, nope, webOS, nope, LiMo, nope. Oct 20 05:37:05 Android doesn't use X? Oct 20 05:37:06 thats Hildon Touch Selector Oct 20 05:37:10 in api ref Oct 20 05:37:13 well i dont want it in a dialog Oct 20 05:37:15 lol Oct 20 05:37:18 luke-jr: no, custom thinger Oct 20 05:37:24 -.- Oct 20 05:37:30 i just want a list to select! T-T Oct 20 05:37:37 luke-jr, you always act like you know this shit then it always turns out you don't. Oct 20 05:37:40 that does look like it though Oct 20 05:38:01 Try approaching things with a little less predetermined certainty. Oct 20 05:38:17 GAN900: more like "Google sucks, but they couldn't possibly suck bad enough to try to reinvent X" Oct 20 05:38:22 guess they can Oct 20 05:38:24 :/ Oct 20 05:38:31 * luke-jr is too optimistic? Oct 20 05:38:34 thux, all of this means wasted development effort and platform lockin Oct 20 05:38:52 ok Oct 20 05:38:59 Since you can't easily port code from one platform to another. Oct 20 05:39:00 crap. touch selector popups up a dialogy sort of box Oct 20 05:39:14 yes Oct 20 05:39:19 thats the idea Oct 20 05:39:26 you want just the list? Oct 20 05:39:29 This is why I get so bothered when I see Android trumpeted as an open platform. Oct 20 05:39:34 just the list Oct 20 05:39:37 lol Oct 20 05:39:45 Because open is more than just code. Oct 20 05:40:12 not really. Oct 20 05:40:13 but ain't open phone software will make manufacturers to same situation than pc manufacturers are? Oct 20 05:40:24 if it's open, you're free to port things Oct 20 05:40:31 and Android is just sucking valuable development time away from platforms that might offer promise in the long term. Oct 20 05:40:40 thux: there is no open phone software. Oct 20 05:40:41 luke-jr, governance. Oct 20 05:41:05 thux, just generic hardware vendors? Oct 20 05:41:08 Good! Oct 20 05:41:09 yes Oct 20 05:41:09 code177: just the list is list Oct 20 05:41:10 thux: there is OpenMoko, which failed. and even then it didn't run free on the phone itself. Oct 20 05:41:26 code177: sect 5.2 on widget spec Oct 20 05:41:46 Hildon Touch List Oct 20 05:41:55 nokia would get less profit if hardware vendor Oct 20 05:41:59 Mer using Maemo technologies is a platform that could offer that unification. Oct 20 05:42:24 thux, good! That means cheaper electronics for consumers. Oct 20 05:42:33 true Oct 20 05:42:49 but they probably try to avoid it Oct 20 05:42:53 thux: I personally disagree. I only pay for hardware. They could make a larger profit (from me) by not wasting time writing it. Oct 20 05:43:06 A unified platform benefits two people: small manufacturers and consumers. Oct 20 05:43:21 As I'm not Nokia, I'd like to see me benefit. Oct 20 05:43:56 * luke-jr notes the FCC kinda locks out small manufacturers Oct 20 05:44:09 -ish Oct 20 05:44:15 Smaller Oct 20 05:44:41 ? Oct 20 05:44:44 Big business likes the FCC because it helps enforce monopolies. Oct 20 05:44:55 tigert: I'm not finding the reference for it Oct 20 05:45:03 Smaller relative to behemoths like Nokia. Oct 20 05:45:11 i.e., SmartQ Oct 20 05:45:23 i'm not 100% sure sq is actually FCC approved Oct 20 05:45:25 SmartQ hasn't put out a phone yet AFAIK Oct 20 05:45:35 non-phones don't need FCC approval Oct 20 05:45:46 or so OpenPandora seems to think Oct 20 05:45:47 wifi? :P Oct 20 05:45:55 well openpandora ... Oct 20 05:46:08 they're about to ship w/o FCC Oct 20 05:46:10 If a Chinese manufacturer comes out with a similar hardware experience with the same software at a much lower price, then Nokia will have to lower prices to compete. Oct 20 05:46:24 code177: hm? in develpe guide link i pasted Oct 20 05:46:39 could one make own gsm phone? can you buy all parts? Oct 20 05:46:42 ah yeah Oct 20 05:46:43 WiFi? Bluetooth? They need FCC. Oct 20 05:46:43 code177: in the forum nokia section Oct 20 05:46:52 code177: widget spec link Oct 20 05:46:53 i wonde rhow all this translates into python Oct 20 05:46:58 GAN900: OpenPandora thinks not. see their blog Oct 20 05:46:59 unfortunately its a pdf Oct 20 05:47:11 thux, yes. Oct 20 05:47:13 ok.. if it's in here.. then it must be in the hildon reference somewhere Oct 20 05:47:18 thux: make? possibly; operate? not w/o FCC approval Oct 20 05:47:27 ok Oct 20 05:48:45 thux, unless you buy a blockbox gsm modem that has approval. Oct 20 05:48:48 so we will not see home build phones like we have home build pc Oct 20 05:49:02 GAN900: that's because the "blockbox" is itself a complete phone Oct 20 05:49:26 tigert: thanks for your help! I'm going to look through the reference tomorrow morning and see if i can figure out how it works Oct 20 05:49:26 Stupid Fremantle text input. Oct 20 05:49:31 and now i'm going to sleep Oct 20 05:49:33 night all! Oct 20 05:49:36 code177: pymaemo.garage.maemo.org might have some? Oct 20 05:49:40 luke-jr, right. Oct 20 05:53:01 code177: good luck Oct 20 05:53:24 if you dont figure it out, ask on the devel list for more pointers Oct 20 05:59:18 code177: so... having watched the bookmarks ui dev change it, that's basically rows with boxes Oct 20 05:59:20 roughly Oct 20 05:59:30 it's not interesting, and it isn't owner drawn Oct 20 05:59:46 trees fwiw, are incredibly expensive Oct 20 05:59:54 so it's probably a list instead Oct 20 06:03:10 oh, and sadly, it has an obscene amount of padding floating around Oct 20 06:03:20 which is why we were playing in the first place Oct 20 06:03:31 * timeless_mbp curses tigert and all of his friends ;-) Oct 20 06:05:02 * timeless_mbp takes a moment to laugh at someone who wrote a string Oct 20 06:05:10 "%d tasks undone" Oct 20 06:05:19 yeah, that's a clever string... ... ... Oct 20 06:09:56 timeless_mbp: padding exists for the days you actually use it with fingers Oct 20 06:10:05 which is, every day :) Oct 20 06:10:16 unless you think its some PDA Oct 20 06:10:29 and try to use it with the stylus Oct 20 06:10:53 (which I lost in april or so and havent missed Oct 20 06:10:57 ) Oct 20 06:12:28 ampache Oct 20 06:12:32 oops Oct 20 06:16:26 padding isn't as useful when rows are finger tall and tapping anywhere selects them Oct 20 06:17:55 what do you mean? Oct 20 06:18:04 what padding are you talking about? Oct 20 06:24:23 the horizontal padding to the left of the thumbnail in bookmarks Oct 20 06:24:33 and the horizontal padding at the right edge of bookmarks Oct 20 06:25:46 n.b. this is mostly an issue for portrait mode Oct 20 06:25:54 * timeless_mbp won't fight about landscape Oct 20 06:26:48 I found the blender thread amusing. Oct 20 06:27:02 funny or depressing? Oct 20 06:27:40 * timeless_mbp frowns Oct 20 06:27:50 My suitemates and I had been joking about how that was exactly the kind of desktop app not to port. Oct 20 06:28:55 Is thee keyboard ui open? Oct 20 06:29:42 hmhm, during the “optification” pre-talks, did someone asked debian people (especially dpkg and policy people) about it? I know that too much people involved clutters the debates, but they would have had quite some ideas about what's possible to do with the tools. Seeing the maemo-optify stuff scares me a little, I have to admit :/ Oct 20 06:32:51 dmj7261: the keyboard ui is open whenever you slide it it out Oct 20 06:33:10 no the on screen keyboard Oct 20 06:34:37 dmj7261: there's some pretty good virtual example keyboards Oct 20 06:35:54 suihkulokki: open tends to mean open source Oct 20 06:36:03 in that context Oct 20 06:36:12 Corsac: so... Oct 20 06:36:18 yeah,as incanI make improvements to it. Oct 20 06:36:21 the optification talks came very late Oct 20 06:36:29 dmj7261: the ui is pluggable Oct 20 06:36:33 so you can replace the keyboard Oct 20 06:36:39 oh good Oct 20 06:43:18 timeless_mbp: yeah I don't want to (re)open the pandora's pox, I seem to recall it was a bit painfull (and god, I'm subscribed to debian-devel, I know that kind of threads :) Oct 20 06:43:56 How can i change my Maemo wiki account password? Oct 20 06:43:58 Corsac: mostly opt was because they eventually realized "oh no, people will run out of space installing basic apps" Oct 20 06:44:20 Meizirkki: is that your garage password? Oct 20 06:44:46 yes, i think Oct 20 06:44:56 timeless_mbp: tbh my initial impression was “why not mounting usr from the 32G card” Oct 20 06:45:01 but I didn't read the thread Oct 20 06:45:14 Corsac: i tried Oct 20 06:45:18 i bricked a device trying Oct 20 06:45:27 duh Oct 20 06:45:36 the short answer is that the 32g volume mounts too late Oct 20 06:45:46 at least assuming i didn't screw something up in my attempt Oct 20 06:46:08 bricked? can't you flash it? Oct 20 06:46:17 oh, not technically bricked Oct 20 06:46:21 yeah we reflashed it Oct 20 06:46:31 but it didn't boot properly Oct 20 06:46:33 Alright. Oct 20 06:46:34 so effectively a brick Oct 20 06:46:48 hmhm, I know there are ongoing discussions about deprecating supporting /usr not on the same volume as /, but I didn't know it was already problematic Oct 20 06:46:49 Bricked means undecoverable :) Oct 20 06:47:01 Lupu: yeah yeah Oct 20 06:47:11 yeah but for an user it's the same Oct 20 06:47:12 but "broke" doesn't sound anywhere near as exciting Oct 20 06:47:21 hehe Oct 20 06:47:34 it's not really part of a good user experience :) Oct 20 06:47:39 I'd say 'rolled down stairs and over the neighbors dog' sounds even more exciting, but... Oct 20 06:47:51 this is finland Oct 20 06:47:57 we rarely notice we have neighbors Oct 20 06:48:05 Good answer. :) Oct 20 06:48:09 and you'd want a possessive somewhere Oct 20 06:48:19 unless neighbors is a breed Oct 20 06:48:24 timeless_mbp: and mounting /opt from the card wasn't possible? Oct 20 06:48:30 (instead of using a symlink) Oct 20 06:48:39 Corsac: your n900 is broke? Oct 20 06:48:46 dmj7261: my n900 doesn't exist Oct 20 06:48:48 :) Oct 20 06:48:49 I couldn't decided if it was singular or plural(neighbor's vs neighbors'), but I guess the latter would be even more exciting. Oct 20 06:49:00 s/decided/decide/ Oct 20 06:49:00 Lupu meant: I couldn't decide if it was singular or plural(neighbor's vs neighbors'), but I guess the latter would be even more exciting. Oct 20 06:49:18 I meant timeless_mbp Oct 20 06:49:21 Lupu: in finland, most people live alone ;-) Oct 20 06:49:35 dmj7261: I'm just trying to answer some questions about optify with my debian experience, and I know that replacing a folder by a symlink is not really something we usually do, especially with so much packages involved :) Oct 20 06:49:36 dmj7261: 'my n900 broke' is so passive Oct 20 06:49:45 you make it sound like there's no blame involved Oct 20 06:49:50 or that i owned it Oct 20 06:50:01 “i threw my n900 in the stairs” Oct 20 06:50:04 more like i borrowed someone else's and broke it for them, then returned it Oct 20 06:50:27 Corsac: s/in/down/ || s/in the stairs/into the stairwell/ Oct 20 06:50:50 And reflashing doesn't fix those sorts of issues? Oct 20 06:50:57 it did Oct 20 06:51:08 Is there really a grammar natzi bot in here? Oct 20 06:51:22 oh okay, "bricked" sounds like you fryed the chips Oct 20 06:51:36 which is why they were right that i abused the verb '[to]brick' Oct 20 06:51:37 Lupu: there are really a number of people who benefit from corrections to English Oct 20 06:51:43 definitely Oct 20 06:51:45 hail grammar? Oct 20 06:52:07 timeless_mbp: Yeah, but it should be a little more forgiving before morning coffee... Oct 20 06:52:10 fryed s/fryed/fried/ Oct 20 06:52:16 (I'm even fine with french grammar nazis, so I really don't have problems with english grammar ones) Oct 20 06:52:18 Lupu: it's nearly 10am Oct 20 06:52:25 Exactly! Oct 20 06:52:29 ... Oct 20 06:52:42 it's nearly 9! Oct 20 06:52:48 * timeless_mbp looks for the "make me breakfast" button Oct 20 06:53:05 * timeless_mbp can't find it on the n900 keypad Oct 20 06:53:18 www.pizza.fi? Oct 20 06:53:26 pizza is not breakfast Oct 20 06:53:34 it's nearly 2! Oct 20 06:53:36 www.east.fi Oct 20 06:53:38 err Oct 20 06:53:41 www.eat.fi Oct 20 06:53:42 It's not a button, but a command: http://xkcd.com/149/ Oct 20 06:53:49 clearly i type east much more often than eat Oct 20 06:54:36 why is it that firefox gives me good things when I type in "crap"? Oct 20 06:54:52 because firefox sucks Oct 20 06:55:04 dmj7261: turn off safe search? Oct 20 06:55:35 no, it just gives me Cory Doctorow's blog when I type "crap" Oct 20 06:56:17 I just find it amusing Oct 20 07:02:05 isn't his blog 'craphound'? Oct 20 07:02:17 mornin maemo Oct 20 07:02:24 morning wazd Oct 20 07:08:02 my n900 is very slow Oct 20 07:13:25 mgedmin: i presume i don't want to ask what you did to it Oct 20 07:13:32 nothing! Oct 20 07:13:50 afaict it's swapping Oct 20 07:14:02 the largest process is browserd at 20 megs rss Oct 20 07:14:18 less than 200 megs of swap space used Oct 20 07:15:00 okay, it's fast again Oct 20 07:15:22 the apparent slowness, I wildly guess, was the task switcher ui code being swapped out Oct 20 07:15:35 it is irritating when you tap on an app thumbnail and nothing happens Oct 20 07:16:11 so you keep tapping until something happens, and that takes maybe 10 seconds Oct 20 07:28:54 mgedmin: you got lotsa stuff running? Oct 20 07:28:59 or is browser being slow? Oct 20 07:29:05 nope, one xterm, one browser window Oct 20 07:29:07 a few applets Oct 20 07:29:11 weird indeed Oct 20 07:29:25 what applets/web page? Oct 20 07:29:50 applets: facebook, personal gprs monitor, personal ip address, load-applet, brightness applet, pc connectivity applet Oct 20 07:29:55 web page: google reader Oct 20 07:29:58 (mobile version) Oct 20 07:29:59 could be javascript Oct 20 07:30:03 probably is Oct 20 07:30:09 yesterday was worse Oct 20 07:30:10 try lite.facebook.com btw Oct 20 07:30:11 <3 Oct 20 07:30:14 it rocks Oct 20 07:30:19 then I realized I kept a background window running a very javascript-heavy app Oct 20 07:30:27 that brings my desktop firefox down on its knees Oct 20 07:30:31 hmm Oct 20 07:30:39 hopefully microB will be updated to 3.5 sometime Oct 20 07:31:59 dmj7261: try typing "about:" in microB Oct 20 07:32:02 tbh try rebooting. i've had problems with weird slowdowns after crashes that get fixed with a reboot Oct 20 07:32:10 dmj7261: um Oct 20 07:32:35 we're not going to 3.5 Oct 20 07:32:37 I don't have an n900 Oct 20 07:32:43 we're moving to a 3.6 relative Oct 20 07:32:49 ah Oct 20 07:33:01 so long as it goes to a faster version Oct 20 07:33:08 we're somewhere roughly newer than 3.5 Oct 20 07:33:12 but sadly, not a safe point Oct 20 07:33:25 3.0 wass very slow Oct 20 07:33:53 atm, we're blocked because the idiots @ nokia maps decided to use a plugin api that was deprecated before Firefox 1.0 was released Oct 20 07:34:14 ?? Oct 20 07:34:19 mozilla.org finally removed that api post 3.5 Oct 20 07:34:25 ah Oct 20 07:34:46 kinda a problem for updating to the version we want Oct 20 07:34:49 timeless_mbp: Update anyway, Ovi Maps sucks Oct 20 07:34:52 since it means maps doesn't work at all Oct 20 07:35:03 qwerty12_N810: this isn't ovi maps, it's nokia maps: ) Oct 20 07:35:10 there's an interesting failure mode where web pages stop reacting to clicks Oct 20 07:35:12 (please don't ask me what the difference is) Oct 20 07:35:13 Couldn't maps be fixed? Oct 20 07:35:14 hey, maemo 5's idle plugin _does_ support sending messages Oct 20 07:35:20 timeless_mbp: you still scale the microb logo in the about page :) Oct 20 07:35:31 timeless_mbp: Ah, well, I haven't come across Nokia Maps :p Oct 20 07:35:32 tigert: um Oct 20 07:35:34 someone said yesterday that it can't Oct 20 07:36:01 * timeless_mbp grumbles Oct 20 07:36:06 tigert: so... Oct 20 07:36:11 last night i turned on an n900 Oct 20 07:36:19 timeless_mbp: minor issue :) Oct 20 07:36:23 this morning i turned to it, and discovered that it was at the "pin please screen" Oct 20 07:36:39 timeless_mbp: i keep seeing a freezing url bar lately :/ Oct 20 07:36:50 timeless: i wish i turned on a n900 last night Oct 20 07:36:50 ;( Oct 20 07:37:29 tigert: so... please explain the scaling Oct 20 07:37:29 Xisdibik: Instead, you get to hear about me and some 300+ other people using their N900s! Oct 20 07:37:39 are you saying the size of the picture doesn't match the size of the html container? Oct 20 07:37:45 i know, its like a wetdream... only a nightmare Oct 20 07:37:46 timeless_mbp: looks like the logo image is blurry Oct 20 07:38:11 and also the about page renders it in different size that it is Oct 20 07:38:25 so yes it seems Oct 20 07:38:26 tigert: load about:logo Oct 20 07:38:36 yeah Oct 20 07:38:37 that'll show you the native size Oct 20 07:38:55 actually Oct 20 07:38:56 so, with only one app running (xterm), should my memory usage be 240 megs of ram + 120 megs of swap? Oct 20 07:39:03 shame that busybox free doesn't show the size of the cache Oct 20 07:39:06 if you're lazy, you can "Save Page" and then check the source :) Oct 20 07:39:09 see how the letters are distorted in about page Oct 20 07:39:46 tigert: so.. Oct 20 07:40:01 it's hard to know if that's because the image has the wrong bits Oct 20 07:40:16 or if it's because the page happens to get an unfortunate zoom level Oct 20 07:40:17 top says cache is 35 megs Oct 20 07:40:19 wrong bits? Oct 20 07:40:33 the zoom might be the issue Oct 20 07:41:02 actually Oct 20 07:41:02 actually Oct 20 07:41:07 zooming it is not Oct 20 07:41:16 since zooming doesnt change it Oct 20 07:41:25 but its a minor issu Oct 20 07:41:26 e Oct 20 07:41:35 * RST38h moos Oct 20 07:41:38 most people never see about: Oct 20 07:41:47 * mgedmin feeds RST38h some grass Oct 20 07:42:05 THAT grass or just grass? Oct 20 07:42:36 tigert: ok Oct 20 07:42:53 the html file has since the image is 115 px tall Oct 20 07:43:09 that's indeed incredibly stupid :) Oct 20 07:43:25 good catch Oct 20 07:43:30 is there a bug filed? Oct 20 07:43:33 in maemo 5, is there way to ask user if he/she wants to delete application data also? Oct 20 07:43:47 when removing application Oct 20 07:43:53 in postrm... Oct 20 07:43:58 Passeli: in short, no Oct 20 07:44:26 because you don't necessarily have X11 when an app is removed Oct 20 07:44:26 Passeli: that is how timeless usually says "you are not supposed to" Oct 20 07:44:26 so trying to use X11 will cause removal to do bad things if it isn't present Oct 20 07:44:37 Passeli: But you can, if you are careful Oct 20 07:44:51 yeah, you can, but, odds are you'll get it wrong Oct 20 07:45:26 Also, you always have X11, you just may not be able to physically click the screen (when removing app over ssh connection remotely) Oct 20 07:45:30 what linux should have is a way for apps to register their data file paths Oct 20 07:45:35 we used maemo-confirm-text in diablo at postrm, but it works differently in maemo 5 Oct 20 07:45:40 RST38h: not true Oct 20 07:45:53 Passeli: If you can avoid it, please do avoid it Oct 20 07:45:53 it's possible for X11 to not be running Oct 20 07:46:04 Morning, all Oct 20 07:46:11 hi Jaffa Oct 20 07:46:50 RST38h: so is the current policy to leave app data on device when removing app thru app manager? Oct 20 07:46:59 Passeli: a better approach is to create a special package which is labeled as {My Application Data} Oct 20 07:47:31 where the description makes it clear that it's the user's actual created content Oct 20 07:47:42 if the user chooses to remove *that* package, so be it :) Oct 20 07:47:59 I've never seen that approach done anywhere by anyone Oct 20 07:48:04 * timeless_mbp neither Oct 20 07:48:05 most apps just leave data as is Oct 20 07:48:09 but it's better than a dialog :) Oct 20 07:48:20 if the data lives in a user-accessible directory (i.e. under MyDocs), then the user can delete it herself Oct 20 07:51:04 I've seen some debian packages ask *on installation time* whether application data should be purged when you remove the package Oct 20 07:51:08 Passeli: I think most apps do not remove user data when you demove them with dpkg -r, but remove all the data when you do dpkg -P (purge) Oct 20 07:51:11 I can't say I liked that approach Oct 20 07:51:12 oh that makes sense Oct 20 07:51:22 Passeli: As far as I know, App Manager does -r but not -P Oct 20 07:51:24 since the user has no idea if they like the data they're creating at that point Oct 20 07:51:26 "um, I dunno... ask me when I actually have some data" Oct 20 07:51:32 and won't remember by the time they go to remove i Oct 20 07:51:33 t Oct 20 07:51:42 mgedmin++ Oct 20 07:52:08 Passeli: So, it feels appropriate (although somewhat wrong) not to remove user data, if you can't show the dialog Oct 20 07:52:21 Passeli: But provide a way to purge it with dpkg -P Oct 20 07:52:45 * timeless_mbp frowns Oct 20 07:53:04 does hildon- support .desktop files under ~ ? Oct 20 07:53:35 * timeless_mbp assumes hildon gets that wrong too Oct 20 08:03:50 and with that... Oct 20 08:29:33 RST38h: dpkg --purge is for configuration files, not for app data Oct 20 08:29:53 Hm, how long does it usually take to create a bugzilla account on maemor.org? Oct 20 08:30:42 mgedminL: Oh. But doesn't ~/.appname count as a config file? Oct 20 08:32:16 no, only files under /etc Oct 20 08:33:12 hi all. How can I check karma points without visiting every page in profiles? Oct 20 08:33:24 (my points) Oct 20 08:34:01 ~karma Oct 20 08:34:01 frals has neutral karma Oct 20 08:34:05 maemo.org/profile/view/username? Oct 20 08:34:06 matmo: https://maemo.org/profile/view/ Oct 20 08:34:08 wrong one i guess ;D Oct 20 08:34:45 X-Fade: error 404 on that page Oct 20 08:34:46 matmo: With your username at the end. Oct 20 08:34:55 ok, one sec Oct 20 08:35:21 Or just click on your name in the top right corner ;) Oct 20 08:35:56 got it but "karma" not listed Oct 20 08:36:27 I think matmo wants https://maemo.org/profile/list/ Oct 20 08:39:03 hmmm, how can I be a member for 2 yrs and have no karma? Rhetorical question, I must have missed something somewhere. Drat. Double drat considering nearly everything I do is Maemo related (just not very public) Oct 20 08:40:15 matmo: have you linked your email addresses etc. in your garage profile? Oct 20 08:40:22 s/garage/maemo.org/ Oct 20 08:40:23 mgedmin meant: matmo: have you linked your email addresses etc. in your maemo.org profile? Oct 20 08:41:25 probably not :-( Oh well, have to wait until prices fall within the range I can afford/ justify. Thanks for replies. Oct 20 08:48:24 anyone using finger scrolling w/ qt on diablo? Oct 20 08:48:55 I'm trying to make this happen with QTextBrowser, with bad results Oct 20 08:49:04 should it work in emulator also? Oct 20 08:51:06 lol, I am linked-in, karma: 67, bad boy! Oct 20 08:53:34 matmo: Start a few t.m.o threads about how N900 is worse than iPhone, and you are in business! Oct 20 08:55:21 Ah, spamfilter ate my the bugzilla registration mail. Never mind... Oct 20 08:55:58 RST38h: matmo: i am sure nokia's product designers will listen carefully ;-) Oct 20 08:57:05 RST38h: ha, haaa... nope, couldn't do that, never even held one and I would feel like a hypocrite. I just have to accept the fact I missed the boat. A few days weeping and I will recover :-) Oct 20 08:57:33 matmo: next device, next chance :-D Oct 20 08:58:08 matmo: but now start blogging, and spaming in talk.maemo.org :-D Oct 20 08:58:24 matmo: start fixing apps in extras! Oct 20 08:58:41 can karma be traded? I'd give a lot for working iptables in fremantle Oct 20 08:59:16 too bad that garage commits don't give karma. Oct 20 08:59:17 Yay! Hermes is creating "birthday-only" contacts now. (Optionally) Oct 20 08:59:42 but guess that's to prevent from nokian's and contractors gaining karma Oct 20 08:59:57 tbf: Nokians and contractors can get karma. Oct 20 09:00:02 Well Nokians still gain shitloads of karma Oct 20 09:00:08 So, that is not the reason Oct 20 09:00:11 tbf: Garage project activity *did* earn karma in the past. Oct 20 09:00:15 Jaffa: yes, but they should not get by their day job Oct 20 09:00:23 why not? :P Oct 20 09:00:27 It could be either a) I'm misremembering; b) it's broken Oct 20 09:00:42 Stskeeps: cause we paid for commiting stuff to garage? Oct 20 09:00:51 matmo: there is a way to reduce sticker shock to ~360 for those in the UK - see 'haff''s post on maemo.org Oct 20 09:00:52 *we get Oct 20 09:01:17 tbf: I will plan ahead for the N1000 :-) Oct 20 09:01:36 * RST38h is looking at the new Atom-based phone proto Oct 20 09:01:39 SpeedEvil: thank for the tip, I will check it out. Oct 20 09:01:44 SpeedEvil: you know these things, what are they called, URLs? Oct 20 09:01:46 Rendered of course, not the real thing :) Oct 20 09:02:09 Looks like a cross of iPhone and N900 Oct 20 09:03:07 mgedmin: my browser crashed Oct 20 09:03:13 ouch Oct 20 09:04:01 mgedmin: So ratehre than wait the couple of minutes it'll take to restart, at which time matmo may have wandered off... Oct 20 09:05:33 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31561&page=14 - a couple of posts back Oct 20 09:08:03 chromium: I'm not afraid to close my last browser window any more Oct 20 09:10:57 hmm Oct 20 09:11:26 yeah - well 200ish tabs open, and it was oomkilling on startup Oct 20 09:12:55 SpeedEvil: thanks for the link, very useful. I also find prices tend to fall off after a month or two so I will resist the urge for as long as I can ;-) Oct 20 09:13:42 tbf: so... Oct 20 09:13:48 rewarding nokians for committing publicly Oct 20 09:13:52 instead of committing privately Oct 20 09:13:54 I don't think they're going to fall _that_ far. Oct 20 09:13:54 is probably valualbe Oct 20 09:14:06 (but it may not work) Oct 20 09:14:21 that said, i don't think nokians generally eat slots from people Oct 20 09:14:31 e.g. nokians were not sponsored to maemo summit by maemo.org Oct 20 09:14:42 (speaking as someone who was not paid by nokia or maemo.org to go...) Oct 20 09:14:54 nokians were not supposed to take devices from the 300 pile there either Oct 20 09:15:30 and nokians generally can purchase devices internally, so if there's a pool of purchasable devices on a first come first serve basis, it's unlikely nokians will eat from it Oct 20 09:15:44 about the only things we consume are tshirts and chocolate Oct 20 09:15:53 (and there wasn't much in the way of chocolate) Oct 20 09:17:25 And most Nokians aren't committing to garage.maemo.org in their day jobs Oct 20 09:17:46 *and* there's obviously not an enormous skew to Nokians given that the front page has *way* more community peeps than Nokians Oct 20 09:18:18 * timeless_mbp nods Oct 20 09:18:40 i remember quim and i from the top list Oct 20 09:18:44 i don't remember many others Oct 20 09:19:00 in fact, we're the only 2 in the top set Oct 20 09:19:23 my karma is from filing bugs, and i would have filed them whether or not i worked for nokia Oct 20 09:19:31 timeless_mbp: hmm. that's actually a good point. Oct 20 09:19:35 i have a whole bunch of other bugs i need to file too Oct 20 09:20:42 The list: http://maemo.org/profile/list/ Oct 20 09:21:20 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1 Oct 20 09:21:28 nice pattern, i wonder how long it repeats :) Oct 20 09:21:39 amusingly, we aren't particularly consistent about our employer's spelling Oct 20 09:21:40 Lots of Nokia contractors there too Oct 20 09:21:47 Nokia, Nokia Oyj, Nokia Corporation Oct 20 09:21:57 the contractor case is more interesting Oct 20 09:22:02 but... Oct 20 09:22:15 given that nokia generally prevents contractors from admitting they exist Oct 20 09:22:26 you really don't want to discourage contractor involvement Oct 20 09:22:47 and contractors often don't get rewarded by nokia/their employer w/ a final product Oct 20 09:23:02 and given that they aren't cheap, and that they've probably put quite a lot of effort into it Oct 20 09:23:09 Nokia Rubber Products Oct 20 09:23:14 * mgedmin rethinks his plans to become a nokia contractor Oct 20 09:23:15 not letting them have a chance to pick one up is mean Oct 20 09:23:25 mgedmin: i've never contracted for nokia Oct 20 09:23:28 so i could be wrong Oct 20 09:23:53 but i do know of one case were we specially arranged for a contractor who was leaving us to get a device, because he wasn't going to otherwise Oct 20 09:23:59 * RST38h will happily disregard lack of freebies when the hourly rate is right Oct 20 09:24:10 * timeless_mbp underlines leaving Oct 20 09:24:19 clearly the rate wasn't good enough :/ Oct 20 09:24:32 (in this case, he took a job @nokia itself, so...) Oct 20 09:25:02 actually Oct 20 09:25:10 a couple of people aren't listing their employer Oct 20 09:25:14 i just got xvnc4viewer debian package compiled in maemo. i need to tweak a few things in the rules and it should be uploadable Oct 20 09:25:19 i believe nix_nix is a nokian Oct 20 09:25:19 RST38h: heya Oct 20 09:25:43 qwerty12_N810, is there a procedure how to upload new source packages to exrtas? Oct 20 09:25:44 guysoft42: historically we've had vnc packages Oct 20 09:26:04 have you looked to see what happened to their maintainers? Oct 20 09:26:12 guysoft42: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Oct 20 09:26:13 (not saying that you shouldn't do it, just...) Oct 20 09:26:29 Disponibilité: En stock chez notre fournisseur - 10 Jours Oct 20 09:26:33 woouh Oct 20 09:26:40 Corsac: we're shipping our product? Oct 20 09:26:45 €554,99 though Oct 20 09:26:50 timeless, ist a separate vnc package. its not the same source.. and i like it, its much faster and lighter than the one currently avilable Oct 20 09:27:03 timeless_mbp: expansys supplier has it Oct 20 09:27:03 guysoft42: ok :) Oct 20 09:27:14 Hurrah Oct 20 09:27:17 i can run it at the moment without packaging.. its usable and nice Oct 20 09:27:46 the only thing missing is a fullscreen button, but its not mandatory. Oct 20 09:27:56 Jaffa, thanks, ill view it Oct 20 09:28:07 fullscreen-turn-off button is more of a necessity, as I've discovered Oct 20 09:28:43 mgedmin: as long as ctrl-backspace works :) Oct 20 09:28:48 fbreader has 'fullscreen' available from the (diablo 4 style) menus, but once you're fullscreen, you can't access them Oct 20 09:28:48 wazd: EHLO! Oct 20 09:29:06 mgedmin: the hardware menu key doesn't work? Oct 20 09:29:17 dunno, I'll tell you once I solder one on Oct 20 09:29:19 mgedmin: That is because it has not yet been adapted for Fremantle Oct 20 09:29:49 sudo apt-get install hardware-menu-key Oct 20 09:29:49 I wonder if Nokia will do something stylish with maemo Oct 20 09:29:49 mgedmin: oh Oct 20 09:29:54 wazd: you mean maemo 5 isn't stylish enough for you? Oct 20 09:29:58 you mean using the maemo 4 fbreader on maemo 5 Oct 20 09:30:03 * timeless_mbp missed that Oct 20 09:30:10 * guysoft42 sent an invitation request to the admins Oct 20 09:30:17 mgedmin: I\rquote m talking bout hardware :) Oct 20 09:30:18 are they by any chance ehre? Oct 20 09:30:20 timeless_mbp: yes, since it hasn't been properly fremantleized yet Oct 20 09:30:20 here* Oct 20 09:30:30 mgedmin: does ctrl-backspace work? :) Oct 20 09:30:41 hardware-wise the n900 is quite stylish, when compared to previous attempts Oct 20 09:30:54 wazd: You mean the current Maemo5 is not stylish enough? Oct 20 09:30:55 ' Oct 20 09:30:58 but without the preconditioning yeah, it's not exactly a piece of art Oct 20 09:30:59 cool :) Oct 20 09:31:13 timeless_mbp: yes, ctrl-backspace does work just fine Oct 20 09:31:20 RST38h: well, maemo 5 can have some tweaks for sure, but I'm talking bout hardware Oct 20 09:31:24 wazd: You mean they should make it look even more like iPhone? :) Oct 20 09:31:46 RST38h: look at 6700 for example, that's a peice of art :) Oct 20 09:31:52 * mgedmin likes the 6600 Oct 20 09:32:08 RST38h: No, Nokia can make outstanding products that doesn't look boring Oct 20 09:32:15 the only nokia phone that's actually pretty Oct 20 09:32:41 there was a company that was going to ship a shiny product and eventually use maemo5 Oct 20 09:32:46 anyone remember it? Oct 20 09:32:56 i'd suggest buying theirs if you want shiny Oct 20 09:33:23 I'm having a problem where apt-get update is hanging, trying to connect to repository.maemo.org (both inside and outside of scratchbox). Could this be my own problem, or could the server be down? Oct 20 09:33:44 RST38h: touchphone design is a tough experience, since you just have screen and the border Oct 20 09:34:54 So - what's the fastest scripting language (to start up) with a GUI on Maemo? Oct 20 09:35:07 I'm thinking that maybe LuaGTK may be a good bet. Oct 20 09:35:13 wazd: I am more concerned about holding it horizontally, it is uncomfortable Oct 20 09:35:29 rmt: zenity Oct 20 09:35:38 timeless, Yeah, but a little limited. :-P Oct 20 09:35:38 ick Oct 20 09:35:48 rmt: i'd go w/ a little buggy Oct 20 09:35:52 * mgedmin is kinda partial to Python Oct 20 09:35:57 and hopefully qwerty12_N810 will fix that for me :) Oct 20 09:36:38 hm, maybe I should try creating a small python maemo 5 app and blog about it, raeddit-style Oct 20 09:36:49 Love Python, but the startup for GUI apps is a bit slow. Oct 20 09:36:59 vala? Oct 20 09:37:01 Might be possible to speed it up, of course.. Oct 20 09:37:18 there are some hacks, eg. python-launcher is one name I've heard and plan to investigate some day... Oct 20 09:37:20 Vala's great.. using it already.. but not a scripting language. Oct 20 09:37:33 assembler Oct 20 09:37:33 why is "scripting language" a requirement? Oct 20 09:37:52 I'd think you'd want a high-level language so you could program and not get bogged in all the irrelevant details Oct 20 09:38:36 Maybe a pre-linked python+gtk executable.. Oct 20 09:38:40 RST38h: oh Oct 20 09:38:58 prototype in python, when you find a good design rewrite in c/vala Oct 20 09:39:04 RST38h: I thought it's good to just lock it with thumb Oct 20 09:39:10 wazd: considering using a lanyard, may be easier that way Oct 20 09:39:15 RST38h: since there are no buttons on the front Oct 20 09:39:25 hmm Oct 20 09:39:26 wazd: you leave fingerprints and obscure the picture Oct 20 09:39:29 mgedmin, Did that for my image viewer.. worked very well.. Oct 20 09:39:37 * tigert wonders how browsers think someone is "mobile device"? Oct 20 09:39:40 awesome Oct 20 09:39:45 wazd: Also, both your hands are tied up that way Oct 20 09:39:48 like google now uses the mobile search version for N900 Oct 20 09:40:02 tigert: "nokia" in User-agent? Oct 20 09:40:05 is it just by comparing some list of user agent strings? Oct 20 09:40:08 tigert: user-agent Oct 20 09:40:10 there is no "nokia" there Oct 20 09:40:12 I realized Oct 20 09:40:19 So - scripting language requirement is that I'd like to be able to download+run code (with human security measures at this point).. Oct 20 09:40:28 it just says "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv7l; en-US; rv:1.9.2a1pre) Gecko/20091012 Firefox/3.5 Maemo Browser 1.5.4.1 RX-51 N900" Oct 20 09:40:34 mmh ok Oct 20 09:40:38 RST38h: well, anyway, n900 has pretty spartan look :) Oct 20 09:40:57 tigert: well what about maemo as keyword? Oct 20 09:40:58 but is there some other method to tell "I'm a mobile browser"? Oct 20 09:41:02 perhaps Oct 20 09:41:09 tigert: I think the google default search ends up in the mobile search because the bookmark is linked to there, not because of autodetect Oct 20 09:41:19 its also funny that google uses an usefully large font in N900 Oct 20 09:41:43 wazd: It looks exactly like an iPhone, with plastic top, no Button, and twice thicked because of keyboard Oct 20 09:41:47 while its tiny on other phones or by viewing the mobile version with desktop browser Oct 20 09:42:01 well, not exactly like Oct 20 09:42:01 tigert: Someone at Google has got an N900, no doubt Oct 20 09:42:07 RST38h: thats what I figured Oct 20 09:42:11 because its sweet Oct 20 09:42:17 RST38h: it looks like any touchscreen phone) Oct 20 09:42:22 tigert: Now, if these guys fixed mobile GMail... Oct 20 09:42:26 * tigert wonders when website design starts to take DPI into account Oct 20 09:42:31 RST38h: screen on the front :D Oct 20 09:42:33 wazd: Yes, all touch screen phones look like iPhone nowadays Oct 20 09:42:35 that would be sweet Oct 20 09:42:52 RST38h: iphone is not unique in it's look Oct 20 09:43:00 RST38h: yeah, mobile-anything is in 99% of cases just way too spartan and small for N900 Oct 20 09:43:01 google reader mobile edition has funky css problems if you use large fonts in microb Oct 20 09:43:02 wazd: At least Steve Jobs was smart enough not to include blue LED illumination this time, or we would have REALLY garish phones everywhere Oct 20 09:43:05 even for N800/810 Oct 20 09:43:17 they tile their icons in a larger image, which shows up very clearly Oct 20 09:43:26 * tigert wonders if user css would work in microb Oct 20 09:43:26 mgedmin: Actually, I feel absolutely fine with Google mobile apps Oct 20 09:43:34 mgedmin: Just the right size Oct 20 09:43:42 well, if you want to have a tiny phone with a large touchscreen, you don't have many options on making how the phone will look like Oct 20 09:43:43 Sorry, that was to tigert Oct 20 09:43:54 RST38h: place d-pad instead of button - voi la, it's one of thousand WinMo PPCs before the iphone Oct 20 09:44:03 the feature sets are just way spartan Oct 20 09:44:10 tigert: GMail is only problematic because it *insists* on 240x320 screen size and resizes itself to that Oct 20 09:44:15 RST38h: like Jam for example Oct 20 09:44:25 wazd: You need way more space for dpad Oct 20 09:44:27 * mgedmin hates how mobile google reader has no 'like' button Oct 20 09:44:37 mobile google search has nice large fonts Oct 20 09:44:46 * tigert wonders if it is microb hack or google doing this Oct 20 09:45:01 Google most likely Oct 20 09:45:15 RST38h: anyway, iphone is not the first phone with large screen on the front :) Oct 20 09:45:30 it is the one everyone copies Oct 20 09:45:43 apple does good design Oct 20 09:46:18 most mobile versions of sites just assume no javascript, no fun stuff, and small fonts Oct 20 09:46:36 while the font / clickable element size is the real problem Oct 20 09:46:43 everything works fine, but its just way small in N900 Oct 20 09:47:48 RST38h: you're exagerating :) Oct 20 09:48:06 "Gmail unfortunately doesnt work in HTML Web Browser device" ?? Oct 20 09:48:07 RST38h: look at the HTC lineup for example Oct 20 09:48:18 wtf is this just weird translation to finnish or what? :) Oct 20 09:48:19 RST38h: they have pretty recognizable look Oct 20 09:49:10 yerga: ping? Oct 20 09:49:12 wazd: And they also look suspiciously like Chinese-copied iPhones =) Oct 20 09:49:26 RST38h: no they don't :) Oct 20 09:49:34 Some don't, true Oct 20 09:49:43 RST38h: http://blog.phoneslimited.co.uk/files/2009/02/htc-touch-diamond2.jpg Oct 20 09:50:13 RST38h: http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2009/2/htc-touch-pro-2_468.jpg Oct 20 09:51:16 X-Fade, pong Oct 20 09:51:24 the first one doesn't look all bad, but the os logo in the top-left corner spoils everything Oct 20 09:51:39 wazd: Well, Pro2 looks like a fat iPhone with keyboard Oct 20 09:51:47 Which ironically also describes N900 :) Oct 20 09:51:51 yerga: So you do see the screenshot widget, but not the buttons? Oct 20 09:52:12 Diamond looks different, yes Oct 20 09:52:14 RST38h: am c'mon :) Oct 20 09:52:18 X-Fade, I see the two entries for the title and name Oct 20 09:52:27 RST38h: that's because of screen on the front? :) Oct 20 09:52:32 X-Fade, but don't the buttons Oct 20 09:52:42 X-Fade, I have screenshots if you want them Oct 20 09:53:00 X-Fade, is working in other sections Maemo4, etc. Oct 20 09:53:06 wazd: Huge screen, no controls, smooth border around the screen, made of slightly different material Oct 20 09:53:11 yerga: It is problably a permissions issue. Let me play with that a bit ;) Oct 20 09:53:26 rounded corners Oct 20 09:53:33 X-Fade, ok thanks, not very important problem anyway ;-) Oct 20 09:53:36 the slight bevel around the n900's screen slightly irritates me Oct 20 09:53:37 RST38h: there are controls on the bottom Oct 20 09:53:41 yerga: It is! Oct 20 09:53:48 wazd: The Button? ;) Oct 20 09:53:50 I wish the front surface was totally flat Oct 20 09:54:00 RST38h: every single PDA has border around the screen :) Oct 20 09:54:21 oh it has got a slider! Oct 20 09:55:02 wazd: I will answer in one image: http://dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/htc-touch-pro2-vs-iphone-3g-01.jpg Oct 20 09:55:28 Side view: http://dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/htc-touch-pro2-vs-iphone-3g-06.jpg Oct 20 09:55:31 one of them looks fat Oct 20 09:55:31 RST38h: and? :) Oct 20 09:55:37 yuck Oct 20 09:55:44 hey Oct 20 09:55:50 wazd: Doesn't the left one look like a chinese knockoff of the right one? Oct 20 09:55:57 yerga: better now? Oct 20 09:55:58 is it fn-left to trigger up in regions w/o a hardware up key? Oct 20 09:56:04 RST38h: absolutely not Oct 20 09:56:13 Mmm... Oct 20 09:56:25 timeless_mbp: something like that Oct 20 09:56:32 havent seen a .fi version yet Oct 20 09:56:35 Maybe I just have no artistic taste at all Oct 20 09:56:40 RST38h: 2 different devices with slight similarities Oct 20 09:56:51 RST38h: like flush screen and... that's all Oct 20 09:56:52 Because to me it looks exactly like a Chinese knockoff of the iPhone Oct 20 09:57:39 wazd: rounded corners, flush screen, accented border, controls underneath, same size even Oct 20 09:57:46 timeless_mbp: key { type[Group1] = "PC_FN_LEVEL2", symbols[Group1] = [ Left, Up ] }; Oct 20 09:58:04 key { type[Group1] = "PC_FN_LEVEL2", symbols[Group1] = [ Right, Down ] }; Oct 20 09:58:18 that should answer your question Oct 20 09:58:18 mgedmin: i just changed my hardware keyboard using Text Input to Suomi Oct 20 09:58:18 RST38h: controls underneath? :D Oct 20 09:58:29 empirical testing is easier :) Oct 20 09:58:29 RST38h: are you kidding? :D Oct 20 09:58:29 it's from /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 Oct 20 09:58:30 the answer is yes, fn is the modifier Oct 20 09:58:35 stupid question Oct 20 09:58:42 which is a pathname I might want to remember later Oct 20 09:58:42 wazd: ok ok I give up :) Oct 20 09:58:44 where the heck do the keyboard layout names live? Oct 20 09:58:47 mgedmin: heh Oct 20 09:59:01 hm, /etc/X11/xkb/base.xml maybe? Oct 20 09:59:12 RST38h: rounded corners aswell :) Oct 20 09:59:40 mgedmin: no Oct 20 09:59:42 wazd: hey, I insist on rounded corners being a feature, many HTC phones do not have these Oct 20 09:59:48 the ui shows "English, Nederlands" or something Oct 20 10:00:00 the FreeRunner wins on rounded corners Oct 20 10:00:01 but the xml file uses SLASHes instead of COMMAs Oct 20 10:00:05 RST38h: yeah, but lots of them had before the iphone Oct 20 10:00:11 mgedmin: You have not seen Palm Pre, have you? Oct 20 10:00:14 no Oct 20 10:00:18 X-Fade, the same result Oct 20 10:00:22 check out the images on the net Oct 20 10:00:38 yerga: Ok, i'll try to debug this.. Oct 20 10:00:39 it's not as round as the freerunner Oct 20 10:00:58 wazd: BTW, can you point to any pre-iPhone device that looks the same? Oct 20 10:01:02 X-Fade, ok, thanks! Oct 20 10:01:31 RST38h: HTC Touch? Oct 20 10:01:58 nope, the original touch looks very differently Oct 20 10:02:12 more like an hPaq really Oct 20 10:02:20 RST38h: flush screen, rounded corners, controls underneath :D Oct 20 10:03:42 X-Fade, sorry, it's working in Chrome now, let me clear the cache in Firefox and see Oct 20 10:03:55 RST38h: I'm not telling that none of the existing phones are copying iPhone, but seriously, most of them don't :) Oct 20 10:04:12 yerga: it is working now, but there is indeed a bug. Oct 20 10:04:15 guess you don't have much options for the front of a pure touch screen phone Oct 20 10:04:24 users expect you to maximize the touch screen size Oct 20 10:04:34 well, you could put spikes on it Oct 20 10:04:36 or. Oct 20 10:04:40 win on originality Oct 20 10:04:44 lose on usability and lawsuits Oct 20 10:04:47 RST38h: they can take some of the usefull trends but no ripping Oct 20 10:04:53 mgedmin: actually some researchers did something like that Oct 20 10:05:20 mgedmin: they put microscopic spikes on touch screens to hide fingerprints Oct 20 10:05:49 tbf: did it work? Oct 20 10:05:49 mgedmin: the spikes are small enough to make the screen still look glossy Oct 20 10:05:54 wazd: it is easier to rip and borrow some of iphone popularity this way Oct 20 10:06:00 mgedmin: but they are random enough to cloak finger prints Oct 20 10:06:18 timeless_mbp: according to a news i've read yesterday: yes. Oct 20 10:06:35 RST38h: I'd rather seriously see some hybrid of E-series design and a touchphone Oct 20 10:06:49 timeless_mbp: if those guys got a patent, they will be rich, i guess Oct 20 10:07:24 depends on whether people are willing to pay :) Oct 20 10:07:34 if all the big companies choose not to buy it :) Oct 20 10:07:41 wazd: E70-Touch! :) Oct 20 10:08:04 timeless_mbp: then some garage company will bring it and become rich :-D Oct 20 10:08:07 RST38h: hehe :) Oct 20 10:08:17 Maemo Garage? :) Oct 20 10:08:23 :-) Oct 20 10:08:44 X-Fade, working in Firefox too, thanks! Oct 20 10:09:19 yerga: Yeah, but this is because I opened up everything ;) Oct 20 10:09:36 yerga: So it is going to stop working again when I close that. Oct 20 10:09:44 X-Fade, ah, ok Oct 20 10:10:09 yerga: But do upload your screenshots, while you can ;) Oct 20 10:10:10 X-Fade, then I'll let the bug open Oct 20 10:10:32 RST38h: btw, E70 is a good example of my statement that nokia isn't afraid to make some crazy stuff :) Oct 20 10:13:07 X-Fade, ok, you can close the door now, thanks Oct 20 10:18:34 Is there a better twitter client for the N810 than mauku? Oct 20 10:23:03 Ronaldo38741: wget? Oct 20 10:23:26 wget Oct 20 10:23:37 The FTP/HTTP downloader? Oct 20 10:25:03 yeah, you can post form data with it. sorry, it was more of a joke than a legitimate suggestion. Oct 20 10:34:59 Has anyone been able to install mafw-lastfm 0.2-1? Seems broken to me. Oct 20 10:37:43 oh nice Oct 20 10:37:50 the idiots compiled the string right into a .so Oct 20 10:37:58 * timeless_mbp curses Oct 20 10:38:11 ok Oct 20 10:38:13 well um Oct 20 10:38:15 * timeless_mbp sighs Oct 20 10:42:35 $ apt-cache search boobs Oct 20 10:42:36 liboobs-1-4 - GObject based interface to system-tools-backends - shared library Oct 20 10:42:44 boobs in the repository :o Oct 20 10:42:56 boobs in the library Oct 20 10:42:57 :P Oct 20 10:43:39 Nokia 16 GB microSDHC Card MU-44 £75.00 ' Oct 20 10:44:00 cheap! Oct 20 10:44:01 Is this a 100Mbyte/s card? :) Oct 20 10:44:15 Or made of solid osmium? Oct 20 10:44:20 why buy a nokias own version :p Oct 20 10:44:59 Yes - I was pointing that out Oct 20 10:45:12 Corsac: it helps pay our salaries Oct 20 10:45:13 Can you preorder that? Oct 20 10:45:15 very very important Oct 20 10:45:20 (75 quid = $120 or so) Oct 20 10:45:31 Who said boobs? Oct 20 10:45:34 * zerojay perks up. Oct 20 10:45:41 timeless: I bought a 3310, just the other decade! Oct 20 10:45:46 zerojay: liboobs Oct 20 10:45:57 SpeedEvil: yeah, see, that so doesn't help Oct 20 10:46:06 please upgrade to buying nokia products annually Oct 20 10:46:15 otherwise, you aren't contributing to our annual expenses Oct 20 10:46:17 I'm currently in the process of checkout with the n900 Oct 20 10:46:26 However - I expect the order to be cancelled. Oct 20 10:46:33 As I'm abusing discount codes. Oct 20 10:46:38 how? Oct 20 10:46:57 http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=20071 Oct 20 10:47:32 SpeedEvil: you ordering from that cashback site? Oct 20 10:47:35 timeless: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=351254&postcount=125 Oct 20 10:47:37 I wonder if you stack multiple procentual discounts, if nokia actually sends you money Oct 20 10:47:45 Ceron^: I am. Oct 20 10:48:07 SpeedEvil: where are you from? Oct 20 10:48:09 what land Oct 20 10:48:11 Arkenklo: a n900 + battery = 321.80 Oct 20 10:48:14 scotland Oct 20 10:48:18 ... Oct 20 10:48:33 Arkenklo: (plus 49.99 cashback) Oct 20 10:48:39 that has to be troll Oct 20 10:48:52 well - it's on my shopping cart, at that figure Oct 20 10:48:56 seriously theyr making a loss on that Oct 20 10:49:02 If they decline it, they decline it. Oct 20 10:49:09 But there is no way I can afford 499 Oct 20 10:49:12 What cashback site? Oct 20 10:49:31 check SpeedEvils link Oct 20 10:49:32 see the above mammo link - topcashback Oct 20 10:49:32 zerojay: Oct 20 10:49:40 does that link work for ppl Oct 20 10:49:43 mammo? Oct 20 10:49:43 does using this cashback thing involve sending money to anyone in eccess of nokiaG Oct 20 10:49:45 who live in finland :D? Oct 20 10:49:47 ? Oct 20 10:49:53 me =) Oct 20 10:50:02 My keyboard is segueing into the 'boobs' thread. Oct 20 10:50:06 vesa: did you order Oct 20 10:50:07 Arkenklo: no Oct 20 10:50:09 from cashback=? Oct 20 10:50:18 I live in sweden, but finland is only a formality Oct 20 10:50:25 it's actually all sweden Oct 20 10:50:27 http://www.maemoproject.com Oct 20 10:50:28 nope =/ Oct 20 10:50:30 what on earth is that Oct 20 10:50:33 I don't know if these deals are available outside the UK, I suspect so. Oct 20 10:50:45 google nokia cashback yourcountry I guess Oct 20 10:50:47 its pretty suspicious Oct 20 10:50:54 :( Oct 20 10:50:59 Stskeeps: wtf Oct 20 10:51:01 Ceron^: cashback sites do actually exist, and work. Oct 20 10:51:05 in sweden there's a visa-card you can get that gives you a lowest-price guarantee Oct 20 10:51:12 * Stskeeps wonders what marketing is up to Oct 20 10:51:39 Stskeeps: o.O Oct 20 10:51:45 so if you buy say an n900 for a load ass of money, while it's avaliable cheaper from somewhere else, the _bank_ gives you the difference back Oct 20 10:51:47 i would think that here in fi phones should be cheap... but nouuuu same pricing or mayb even more Oct 20 10:51:50 :-P Oct 20 10:51:51 (and worst-case, I can excersize my rights under the distance selling act to return it) Oct 20 10:51:55 Stskeeps: more mushrooms! Oct 20 10:52:02 n900 here cost 580-6xx euros Oct 20 10:52:11 view source is even weirder :P Oct 20 10:52:11 SpeedEvil: yes, but how do you know you'll get your money back? Oct 20 10:52:24 yeah, I saw Oct 20 10:52:28 ifreq: yeh it sucks Oct 20 10:52:41 Arkenklo: the websites actually do give people their money back - they are paid by nokia Oct 20 10:52:58 Arkenklo: and if they do not, I can cancel the contract and return the n900 Oct 20 10:53:12 Ceron^: no logic on that to be honest :/ Oct 20 10:53:29 SpeedEvil: I beliave you, but I can't figure out how someone can profit on that Oct 20 10:53:39 X-Fade, ping Oct 20 10:53:43 believe Oct 20 10:54:13 im abit angry if that cashbacksite works Oct 20 10:54:17 its really unfair :P Oct 20 10:54:49 Are N900s available now in the US non-contract? Oct 20 10:54:55 I have an unexpected opportunity Oct 20 10:55:13 Arkenklo: nokia offers cashback to third parties for driving custom to their site Oct 20 10:55:21 RurouniJones: you can pre-order Oct 20 10:55:28 Bugger, no good. Oct 20 10:55:30 RurouniJones: they're not available anywhere Oct 20 10:55:42 w00t: up for faking entry into the competition? lp Oct 20 10:55:45 ;p Oct 20 10:55:52 Stskeeps: ...haha Oct 20 10:55:55 What is the release date? Oct 20 10:55:58 RurouniJones: likely a week or two till you can get it Oct 20 10:55:59 Stskeeps: gmta! Oct 20 10:56:03 RurouniJones: end of this monch Oct 20 10:56:04 Nokia doesn't do release dates. Oct 20 10:56:05 month Oct 20 10:56:14 http://maemoproject.com/ is even weirder Oct 20 10:56:14 Double Bugger Oct 20 10:56:22 when is maemo.org going to show os2009 Oct 20 10:56:27 zerojay: But if they did, they'd be the finest release dates in the world. Oct 20 10:56:28 top downloads Oct 20 10:56:33 <_berto_> after some hours the combo box in the browser stopped working, has anyone noticed the same problem? Oct 20 10:56:40 SpeedEvil: pffft. Oct 20 10:56:51 "Send us your contact info and win N900 or BH-95 headset"lol Oct 20 10:56:58 _berto_: combo breaker? Oct 20 10:57:36 <_berto_> SpeedEvil: uh ? Oct 20 10:57:53 _berto_: nope. Oct 20 10:57:57 _berto_: lrn2intrnt Oct 20 10:58:55 <_berto_> i hit the problem a couple of times, but I don't know if there's a deterministic way to reproduce it Oct 20 10:58:57 sorry Oct 20 11:01:59 * RST38h moos at VDVsx Oct 20 11:02:25 * VDVsx moo00s back Oct 20 11:02:55 oops. sales terms and conditions. '9. Title to products and license to software Nokia retains full legal title to products until it has received all amounts due on the ordered products in full. ' Oct 20 11:05:23 Sounds reasonable, albeit redundant Oct 20 11:06:20 Sure - however - they can't retain license to GPL products. Oct 20 11:06:27 Oh. Oct 20 11:06:42 Unless they never ship until they are paid. Oct 20 11:06:45 Which I suppose isn't impossible. Oct 20 11:10:27 The statement does not say to which products nokia retains title Oct 20 11:10:30 and license Oct 20 11:11:01 So, the GPLed stuff inside the tablets may well stay GPLed. Of course this has no practical importance :) Oct 20 11:11:24 No. Oct 20 11:12:17 later duds Oct 20 11:12:23 s/duds/dudes :-) Oct 20 11:13:22 so, my N900 totally oomed at me over lunch Oct 20 11:13:51 I had an xterm, modest and two browser windows open Oct 20 11:13:51 after staring at the task switcher screen for 10 minutes I gave up and turned it off Oct 20 11:13:54 disable flash? Oct 20 11:15:07 mgedmin: what, it froze? Oct 20 11:15:16 mgedmin: After hearing how you're fucking around with kernel modules, I'm not surprised. I NEVER have these problems. Oct 20 11:18:27 so, with htop how do you change the sort order? Oct 20 11:18:31 there's no F6 key on my n900 Oct 20 11:18:50 mgedmin: esc - 6 ? Oct 20 11:18:57 that's a midnight commander special Oct 20 11:19:09 htop doesn't handle that, I checked Oct 20 11:19:32 * mgedmin remarks, for reference, that after a fresh boot the n900 eats 119 megs of ram and 0 swap Oct 20 11:19:52 morning Oct 20 11:19:59 * mgedmin now has memory usage of 152 megs of ram + 42 megs of swap -- after listening to a mp3 or two and running xterm with htop Oct 20 11:20:40 curse avahi Oct 20 11:21:31 for not starting up on boot Oct 20 11:23:13 um, is hildon-status-menu supposed to eat 109M just 5 minutes after boot, or did I discover my memory leak? Oct 20 11:24:26 vsz/vsize is a useless measure :) Oct 20 11:24:37 I think in htop you can just tap the things in xterm Oct 20 11:24:42 the menu items at the bottom I mean Oct 20 11:25:01 need a stylus or smaller fingers then Oct 20 11:25:05 btw - n900 do not have any button on screen part? Oct 20 11:25:36 yeah but n900 comes with stylus, right Oct 20 11:25:38 hrw: quake uses the proximity sensor for that ;) Oct 20 11:26:15 X-Fade: I do not care about quake - I got used to back/home buttons on n810 Oct 20 11:26:37 hrw: Ah, those are all done on the touchscreen now. Oct 20 11:26:48 Just swipe in from the right. Oct 20 11:27:02 And home is just long press on the top left icon. Oct 20 11:27:23 X-Fade: but how do they work in app which is fullscreen? Oct 20 11:27:25 oh right, mouse contorl in htop doesn't work through screen.. Oct 20 11:27:40 yet another way in which screen sucks Oct 20 11:28:16 and are there any infos when portrait mode will be available? Oct 20 11:28:18 hrw, ctrl+backspace or unfullscreen the app Oct 20 11:28:32 Any progress on if you can recieve IR in any form? Oct 20 11:29:12 mgedmin: ok Oct 20 11:29:16 Yeah, sometimes screen gets in the way Oct 20 11:29:28 I don't like what it does to emacs key bindings for example Oct 20 11:29:32 * ShadowJK ran out of ptys on his n810 Oct 20 11:29:41 it does something to emacs keybindings? Oct 20 11:29:42 there are only 4 ptys Oct 20 11:29:45 hrw: portrait was announced for this year. Oct 20 11:29:50 X-Fade: cool Oct 20 11:29:58 "portrait in web browser, hopefully for christmas" Oct 20 11:30:06 X-Fade: n900 is phone for me, not tablet Oct 20 11:30:08 I don't think any other app will get support for portrait Oct 20 11:30:11 ShadowJK: Well, screen hears Ctrl-a as a command, which in emacs is 'go to beginning of line' Oct 20 11:30:15 * ShadowJK notes the absence of a mention WHICH christmas :D Oct 20 11:30:22 jeremiah: I changed screen's prefix to ctrl-b Oct 20 11:30:23 screen thinks it means 'wait for a command' Oct 20 11:30:28 ah Oct 20 11:30:28 the only ctrl-letter that I'm not already using Oct 20 11:30:28 hrw: Most extras apps already support portrait btw ;) Oct 20 11:30:38 most? Oct 20 11:30:40 optimistic Oct 20 11:30:42 some, yes Oct 20 11:30:48 mgedmin: I tried that once and didn't get it to work - your screen fu is stronger than mine obviously. Oct 20 11:30:50 christmas? Oct 20 11:30:51 Oooh! Oct 20 11:30:54 you need ^a a then? Oct 20 11:30:58 * SpeedEvil wants a port of http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/rick/Xsnow/ Oct 20 11:31:23 ShadowJK: I think that means something to screen too Oct 20 11:31:34 jeremiah: http://pastey.net/126844 Oct 20 11:31:45 makes screen *almost* usable Oct 20 11:31:46 mgedmin: Thanks! Oct 20 11:31:55 SpeedEvil: That is pretty awesome. Oct 20 11:31:58 Snow! Oct 20 11:32:03 ^a^a does, ^a a seems to suggest according to screen's help that the app would get ^a Oct 20 11:32:19 forget about xsnow, what about xanthill? ;) Oct 20 11:32:25 xsnow doesn't work well with composited desktops, I think Oct 20 11:32:41 ShadowJK: Thanks. :) Oct 20 11:32:44 THat's a bloody impressive piece of software too, written before Linux even existed, and compiles fine on Linux today Oct 20 11:32:54 or well, it compiled fine last time I checked, in 2003-ish.. Oct 20 11:32:54 Looks like everyone's screen fu is stronger than mine. :/ Oct 20 11:33:11 ShadowJK: It's very simple and yet fun. Oct 20 11:33:45 I love how the screenshot on the website shows him running Netscape :) Oct 20 11:34:47 Qty/Description: 1 / Nokia N900 (SKU# 002P1Q2) Qty/Description: 1 / Nokia Battery BL-5J (SKU# 02711B5) Oct 20 11:34:49 Order total: £ 321.80 Oct 20 11:34:50 :) Oct 20 11:34:56 (confirmation email) Oct 20 11:35:04 Now to see if they honor it. Oct 20 11:36:03 * timeless grumbles Oct 20 11:36:12 Are there any hardware differences between the US, EU and UK (If there is a specific one) versions of the N900? Just keyboard layout? Oct 20 11:36:50 SpeedEvil: So a new N900 and a battery for 321 Euros? Good deal Oct 20 11:37:02 jeremiah: pounds Oct 20 11:37:15 jeremiah: but there is 49.99 cashback on that too Oct 20 11:37:17 Sorry, that is a pounds symbol Oct 20 11:37:19 right Oct 20 11:37:24 I am thick. Oct 20 11:37:25 still a good deal ^^ Oct 20 11:37:30 Still a good deal indeed Oct 20 11:37:33 Yes - but it may not be approved. Oct 20 11:37:44 But - if it's much more expensive, I can't afford it - so why not. Oct 20 11:37:51 RurouniJones, there's no "EU" version Oct 20 11:38:22 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22691 Oct 20 11:38:38 N900 battery, $3.72! Oct 20 11:38:40 Ok ok, so is there a hardware difference between US and non US versions that will be sold in Europe? Oct 20 11:38:43 good luck SpeedEvil :) Oct 20 11:38:57 nnod: Chinese made? Oct 20 11:39:04 nnod, I hope you've insured your N900 against idiocy :) Oct 20 11:39:07 i bought a similar one for the N810, and they have about 1/3 the capacity of the official ones Oct 20 11:39:15 lol Oct 20 11:39:43 but do they cost 1/3 the price? Oct 20 11:40:13 Holy hell, there are a lot of iPhone ripoffs on that site judging by the thumbnails :) Oct 20 11:40:19 ShadowJK: true, especially since one of the cheap N810 batteries I bought started smoking in my N810. the back panel was hot to touch and burned my finger. luckily there was no permanent damage apart from a burnt smell that still persists Oct 20 11:40:29 I wouldn't call them ripoffs Oct 20 11:40:47 They run windows mobile is something even worse, and come with non-iphone features like java and memory cards.. Oct 20 11:41:05 ShadowJK: Wait till mer gets good enough. Oct 20 11:41:08 nnod, the fumes are toxic :-) Oct 20 11:41:10 the good thing is dealextreme is great about sending you new stuff when it's defective Oct 20 11:41:18 nnod: indeed. Oct 20 11:41:34 I want to build a dealextreme hoverboard/helicopter. I wonder if they'd sponsor me. Oct 20 11:42:11 150* http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15230 - 20Kg of batteries, and a whole lot of duct tape. Oct 20 11:42:34 ever noticed that they don't have anything big or heavy ;-) Oct 20 11:42:44 SpeedEvil: i guess it's too late for the Nokia PUSH thing, you could control the helicopter with the N900 Oct 20 11:43:02 nnod: damn that would be cool. (though illegal in the UK alas) Oct 20 11:43:15 (as it's quite capable of free flight) Oct 20 11:43:37 rofl at that battery, just noticed one of the comments saying it's hard to spot the difference between original and fake... I guess they didn't notice the absence of authentication code? Oct 20 11:44:02 Yeah - you have to buy with care. Oct 20 11:44:15 Screen protectors OTOH - I find work just fine Oct 20 11:45:59 Even the mugen batteries that are highly regarded on t.m.o have uprated capacity in the marketing :-) Oct 20 11:46:46 i built my own N800 replacement battery by taking the cell out of this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8436 and soldering an old N800 battery protection circuit to it Oct 20 11:46:57 it works pretty well Oct 20 11:47:08 i would Oct 20 11:47:26 i wouldn't fuck with batteries. Oct 20 11:48:32 define "pretty well"? Oct 20 11:48:39 "doesnt burst into flames too often"? :) Oct 20 11:48:55 nnod, what did you find inside the N800 battery... Oct 20 11:49:10 tigert: heh, that and it gets about 10 hours of gps tracking Oct 20 11:49:12 got pics? Oct 20 11:50:11 ShadowJK: it was just a lithium polymer cell in that flexible metallic shield, nothing special Oct 20 11:50:47 Oh I was just wondering what circuit you soldered onto it Oct 20 11:51:48 Probably just terminals, ntc for temp and a fuse. Oct 20 11:51:57 ShadowJK: the circuit looks like a protection circuit Oct 20 11:53:11 the end result was superior to the supposedly 1800 mAh Mugen cells Oct 20 11:53:12 I'd expect the genuine nokia battery to have a strip running along the side, and a resistor connected to the middle pin.. I wouldn't expect any circuits inside Oct 20 11:53:23 oh the 1800mAh mugens are 1200mAh :-) Oct 20 11:53:44 Atleast that's what mine was. It even announced itself as 1200mAh through the third pin Oct 20 11:54:05 ShadowJK: how do you see the capacity? Oct 20 11:54:58 Well, the capacity reported by the battery itself can be seen with: lshal|grep battery.reporting.design Oct 20 11:55:25 cool, i didn't know that Oct 20 11:55:38 ShadowJK: and it can't do that if there is no other circuitry inside other than a thermistor Oct 20 11:55:58 it's not a thermistor afaik Oct 20 11:56:10 yes, it's a battery protection chip Oct 20 11:56:17 probably a couple Oct 20 11:56:22 it's not just a resistor Oct 20 11:56:32 (if it's reporting stuff) Oct 20 11:57:24 yeah i think only bigger laptop batteries have thermisters, atleast i've never found them in smaller packs for phones and stuff Oct 20 11:57:39 mhm, did anyone within the developer program get feedback from the people we're supposed to send a mail to? Oct 20 11:58:18 SpeedEvil, I think they just use a different resistor to indicate different design capacities Oct 20 11:58:33 the reported design capacity varies from boot to boot, probably temperature variation Oct 20 11:59:07 The device itself has a temperature sensor near the battery though Oct 20 11:59:55 does anyone have a bluetooth gps and n900 and a wifi connection to test a bug? Oct 20 12:00:49 hmm Oct 20 12:00:50 nomis: no Oct 20 12:00:59 oops, in that case. Oct 20 12:01:02 hadn't thought of that Oct 20 12:01:09 nnod: two out of three Oct 20 12:01:24 I have a bluetooth gps, but it is ~800 km from my current location Oct 20 12:01:54 mgedmin: hmm...iirc bluetooth needs to be within 10m :) Oct 20 12:01:58 mgedmin: ok, thanks. Oct 20 12:02:32 I suppose the Forum Nokia web shop doesn't handle preordering, and I expect our discounts to be approved after the N900 actually ships Oct 20 12:03:03 mgedmin: possible. Oct 20 12:03:28 still a "we have received your application, here's what will happen" would be nice. Oct 20 12:04:03 yes Oct 20 12:05:05 hm Oct 20 12:05:11 I wonder if a thermal fuze would sow up on xray Oct 20 12:05:26 ShadowJK: it shows up better on stanley knife. Oct 20 12:05:31 lithium cells are opaque to xrays, aren't they? Oct 20 12:05:32 sure... Oct 20 12:05:42 mgedmin: probably moderately. Oct 20 12:06:33 * ShadowJK notices he hasn't checked the scratchcode on his N800 battery Oct 20 12:07:14 ShadowJK: Three cherries, and you win a car! Oct 20 12:07:37 Actually - that would be a cunning promotion. Oct 20 12:07:42 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/20/adam_curtis_afghanistan_interview/ <=== What you probably didn't know about .AF Oct 20 12:07:54 SpeedEvil, to raise awareness of the code, yeah Oct 20 12:07:59 Encourage users to purchase legit bats. And how to work out the scrachcode Oct 20 12:08:20 Also if you get just the hologram or no hologram at all, you know the merchant screwed you over and sent you either a fake or an ancient battery Oct 20 12:10:04 what is this scratchcode? Oct 20 12:10:38 All original Nokia batteries have a hologram, the hologram has this black strip on it Oct 20 12:10:39 It's a scratch-off panel on the battery Oct 20 12:10:47 that you can use to verify the authenticity Oct 20 12:10:47 you scratch the battery and sniff -- if you smell burning, the battery's a dud Oct 20 12:10:53 you can scratch the black, and it reveals a 20 digit code Oct 20 12:11:07 you enter this code into a website at nokia.com, it only works once, and it tells you if it's genuine or not Oct 20 12:11:19 Oh man, they are still scratching batteries Oct 20 12:11:33 mgedmin: if the battery isn't made by Nokia, it doesn't mean it's broken ;) Oct 20 12:11:34 ShadowJK: My N900 doesn't have that. Oct 20 12:11:39 it probably means that it's cheaper though Oct 20 12:11:47 X-Fade, fake! ;-) Oct 20 12:11:50 Are batteries locked to cell phone providers too? =) Oct 20 12:11:54 Phreedom: And may catch light at a higher rate than nokia batteries. Oct 20 12:12:02 ShadowJK: Doubtful ;) Oct 20 12:12:07 SpeedEvil: very unlikely Oct 20 12:12:08 * SpeedEvil places a gag on RST38h. Oct 20 12:12:11 Don't give them ideas. Oct 20 12:12:13 hm Oct 20 12:12:16 my E75 doesn't either Oct 20 12:12:19 I wonder if they ended it Oct 20 12:12:28 SpeedEvil: at least where I live, people usually buy "dud" batteries, no troubles so far Oct 20 12:12:36 ') nnod: ShadowJK: true, especially since one of the cheap N810 batteries I bought started smoking in my N810. the back panel was hot to touch and burned my finger. luckily there was no permanent damage apart from a burnt smell that still persists' Oct 20 12:12:52 And a higher rate does not mean 10% or even 1%. Oct 20 12:13:06 Damn, I really shocked how ugly Moto Droid is Oct 20 12:13:25 SpeedEvil: naturally. but LiPo is usually safe Oct 20 12:13:33 lol Oct 20 12:13:33 wazd: Looks fine to me, although dpad could have been better Oct 20 12:13:34 Couldn't expect that stuff from Moto Oct 20 12:13:49 hehe Oct 20 12:14:08 wazd: the reql question is, of course, how that huge 856x480 screen behaves with Dalvik Oct 20 12:14:08 wazd: Should be slow like hell Oct 20 12:14:19 RST38h: Droid looks like some chineese stuff - weird keyboard, simple brick design, boring bottom Oct 20 12:14:23 Phreedom: How to fast charge LiPo, use a 15-minute NiCd charger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWdnjLqVWw Oct 20 12:14:48 ShadowJK: Heh, that can't be good ;) Oct 20 12:14:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWdnjLqVWw Oct 20 12:14:50 wazd: maybe they just bought some chinese stuffers android Oct 20 12:14:51 oops Oct 20 12:15:00 lipo is safe - how? Oct 20 12:15:19 glass: that's Motorola, fucking geniuses of InDesign! :D Oct 20 12:15:22 Lipo is safe if you know what you are doing and QA is good ;) Oct 20 12:15:22 It can catch fire if you misuse it, or if there are construction problems in the battery Oct 20 12:15:35 glass: I don't beleive that they are buing stuff somewhere Oct 20 12:15:41 wazd: geniuses of production lines, or not, too Oct 20 12:15:41 ShadowJK: you know the charger is in the device, not battery Oct 20 12:15:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU - mechanical damage of a lipo battery Oct 20 12:15:50 wazd: well they have been in past too Oct 20 12:16:09 Phreedom, yes, but if the pack in the video had a thermal fuze it would've disconnected itself when temperature climbed :-) Oct 20 12:16:14 also li-ion explodes, instead of burning :) Oct 20 12:16:15 wazd: They may have fired all their R&D people during reorganization :) Oct 20 12:16:22 RST38h: http://i.afterdawn.com/storage/pictures/news/normal_MotorolaDroid-4.jpg <- keyboard looks weird Oct 20 12:16:25 Phreedom: however - you don't know that the cell has not been pinched, dropped, or badly assembled in the case, stressing it. Oct 20 12:16:41 SpeedEvil: I sure do. I drop all my devices :) Oct 20 12:16:46 wazd: But what I would really like to know is not the look. It is the FEEL. Motorola always managed to provide the perfect feel. Oct 20 12:16:53 RST38h: they have released Aura after crash Oct 20 12:17:05 RST38h: and it absolutely kicks ass Oct 20 12:17:05 Phreedom: The bare cell is lots less robust than it is once it's inside the plastic box. Oct 20 12:17:21 wazd: it is girly phone :) Oct 20 12:17:23 Well Li-Ion is usually rolled up into metal cans... Oct 20 12:17:36 and polymer is inside soft bags instead :) Oct 20 12:17:40 RST38h: I don't care, it looks damn good :) Oct 20 12:18:13 ShadowJK: you know explosives + bits of metal are much more deadly than explosives alone ;) Oct 20 12:18:13 RST38h: Droid looks more like Dev unit than some real hardware Oct 20 12:18:20 yes :) Oct 20 12:18:36 the compression helps Oct 20 12:18:42 so just don't wear a belt on your pants, so that you can take them off fast, and you'll be fine with lipo :) Oct 20 12:18:54 this is what I do Oct 20 12:18:55 :) Oct 20 12:19:12 and you can save 15eur on your n*** battery :) Oct 20 12:19:18 RST38h: there are a lot of units that I feel nothing for, no hate no love Oct 20 12:19:22 wazd: Droid looks like a freaking huge screen with a keyboard to me Oct 20 12:19:31 and some more money on the belt :) Oct 20 12:19:33 wazd: Dunno if it is good or bad really Oct 20 12:19:43 * Phreedom runs away Oct 20 12:19:43 RST38h: and I feel hate for Drid, it's disgusting somehow :) Oct 20 12:19:44 RST38h: so does the n900 to me... Oct 20 12:20:52 RST38h: http://www.gadgetvenue.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/motorola-droid_3.jpg Oct 20 12:21:16 RST38h: eeeek Oct 20 12:21:29 wazd: is that an air exhaust? Oct 20 12:21:55 RST38h: looks like :) Oct 20 12:25:11 magic smoke exhaust Oct 20 12:28:33 what on earth is that lower edge thing on that phone? looks hugely unstylish in my opinion. Oct 20 12:28:45 but then again... american design... ;> Oct 20 12:30:50 people that like fake wood panels on their station wagon must like it. somehow it looks almost kitsch retro to me. :I Oct 20 12:30:57 and I'm particularly little into stylish things... Oct 20 12:32:56 RST38h: I think so too :) Oct 20 12:33:28 UI doesn't look too bad, but the physical design, good god Oct 20 12:33:42 * RST38h brings it to kirma's attention that Nokia isn't that good on design either Oct 20 12:33:56 kirma: in fact american school of design is rather good Oct 20 12:34:11 And US design is market driven Oct 20 12:34:22 RST38h: Bah. That's fins chopping each mobile phone out of large pieces of wood. With an axe. By hand. Oct 20 12:34:23 kirma: check out their buildings, cars, even old Moto phones Oct 20 12:34:29 The plastic coating comes later on :) Oct 20 12:34:38 range: That is exactly how I imagined it Oct 20 12:34:51 range: ingredients: vodka, axe, wood Oct 20 12:34:53 kirma: heya :-) Oct 20 12:34:58 I like E series design :) Oct 20 12:35:17 wadz: well. 99% of those I find quite expelling. Oct 20 12:35:21 I have a 6120 classic at the moment, and I rather liket that design. Oct 20 12:35:23 1% is good ;) Oct 20 12:35:25 Also, Moto always ruled on the physical feel of their devices, sturdy, solid Oct 20 12:35:26 liket? Thingie. Oct 20 12:36:01 BTW, Nokia's numbered handsets are pretty well designed. N-series, on the other hand... Oct 20 12:36:19 RST38h: and Moto alwas sucked balls in software :) Oct 20 12:36:22 N900 is almost like an exception: it may not have outstanding design but it is not ugly Oct 20 12:36:36 wazd: They did not care, enever considered it important :) Oct 20 12:36:50 moto has had too many sw baskets Oct 20 12:36:52 wazd: Hired shitload of sw people (about 2000 at one itme), developed for 4-5 different platforms Oct 20 12:36:58 way too many Oct 20 12:36:59 yeh Oct 20 12:37:05 Ended up broke Oct 20 12:37:09 and then focused not on making profit on any of them Oct 20 12:37:15 I can't really think what tho think of the droid design, exactly... either it's designed for some strange sort of american aesthetics or the design is completely ignored as a part of the product development ;> Oct 20 12:37:20 Yea, the race to the bottom thing also played its part Oct 20 12:38:45 in my opinion, N900 looks like it should and could. it's not meant to be a showpiece in its physical design, but it shouldn't make you cry blood... :) Oct 20 12:39:21 hmmh, does someone know about some promo codes for expansys, btw? Oct 20 12:39:45 kirma: more or less, yes Oct 20 12:40:51 hmm is there a trick to getting input in maemo? I have a Qt dialog with couple of input fields (tried with line edit and textinput) but 1) i cant set focus to these widgets 2) as soon as i start typing the system takes me to contacts application and im searching for matching contacts Oct 20 12:41:20 so it looks like there's a global something that is grabbing the input Oct 20 12:41:53 doh, the solution with the least "score" on portrait mode input is the one nokia chose to implement in harmattan >_< (well, an API as well so not that big of a deal :P) Oct 20 12:42:22 of course, in some ways iphone is masterpiece in aesthetics, but saying that it's a masterpiece in physical usability in general would be pretty misguided. in comparison to that, most nokia phones try to find a balance... and then, these "put hardware in a box" designs like droid ignore the aesthetics entirely ;)) Oct 20 12:44:06 * ShadowJK finds all these things ugly Oct 20 12:44:07 somehow I suspect the amount of motorola innovation on droid is close to zero Oct 20 12:44:44 although my E75 has a stainless steel back cover. Maybe I could put it in a salt bath and get an awesome post apocalyptic rusty feel to it. Oct 20 12:44:50 kirma: Isn't this the same for every Andoird or WinMo phone? Oct 20 12:44:55 ensi: have you tried using widget->setfocus() function?-) Oct 20 12:45:02 it should do the trick Oct 20 12:45:04 kirma: You pretty much get a turn-key solution to place into your ROM Oct 20 12:46:28 RST38h: well, to great extent. but clever hardware design is then a considerable factor to differentiate... Oct 20 12:47:17 well, I mean hardware design that affects aesthetics too Oct 20 12:50:40 Summeli: good try but no, doesn't work any better Oct 20 12:50:47 of course, droid has an upper edge on competition because it has new android OS and fresh hardware... but how long that is going to last? Oct 20 12:51:06 For Motorola, it may last for another 5-10 years :) Oct 20 12:51:09 a bit of design thouch wouldn't have hurted... Oct 20 12:51:16 Remember StarTAC, then Razr? Oct 20 12:51:18 ensi: works for me :P Oct 20 12:51:43 Summeli: you have a window or a dialog? Oct 20 12:51:45 what's droid, another omap3? Oct 20 12:51:45 maybe you could go even further, and use that setfocus on tha textedit, or line-edit, you are trying to edit Oct 20 12:51:46 with android? Oct 20 12:51:55 ensi: I used that for dialog Oct 20 12:52:07 Summeli: yeah i set the focus to the first input widget Oct 20 12:52:16 im using plain text edit now Oct 20 12:52:17 the setfocus does some as touching that dialog/window Oct 20 12:52:33 its not workign, i dont get the caret Oct 20 12:52:42 ensi: did you try to tap the edit before writing? Oct 20 12:52:47 ofc Oct 20 12:52:49 did they make NMT900 startacs? anyway, I remember seeing one back around those times when GSM hadn't yet catched on properly, and somehow the droid design brings it to my mind. Oct 20 12:52:58 ensi: :( it just should work :( Oct 20 12:53:12 sigh Oct 20 12:56:50 hi ;) Oct 20 13:05:41 Tough times for OMWeather came Oct 20 13:06:08 mm/ Oct 20 13:06:10 ? Oct 20 13:07:36 winds? hailstorms? hurricanes? Oct 20 13:07:42 Stskeeps: Vlad needs some rest after Fremantle Stars tortue, Pavel (second OMW coder) can't afford the device Oct 20 13:07:54 ah, sucks :/ Oct 20 13:08:03 they'll hopefully be able to run omweather on mer/n8x0 :P Oct 20 13:09:01 what was that tortue thing/ Oct 20 13:09:57 mgedmin: well, deadlines, deadlines, and some more deadlines Oct 20 13:10:29 And after all that they neded up showcasing Foreca? Oct 20 13:10:32 ended up Oct 20 13:10:42 RST38h: yep Oct 20 13:10:51 shame. Oct 20 13:11:03 RST38h: and gave him n900 for half'a'year :D Oct 20 13:11:17 well, only because he attended the summit :) Oct 20 13:11:32 RST38h: yep Oct 20 13:12:24 http://mobiletablets.blogspot.com/2009/10/maemo-summit-news-n8x0-omap2-graphics.html - can someone finally tell me about which drivers it is? Oct 20 13:12:47 hrw: TI guy announced open source kernel GLES 1.1, closed source lib, for MBX Oct 20 13:12:49 hrm: OMAP2-graphics? :) Oct 20 13:12:50 tested on N8x0 Oct 20 13:13:28 hrw: ImageTech finally broke down and agreed to release OGLES drivers for N8x0 Oct 20 13:13:42 Stskeeps: what about limitations of 3d acceleration? Oct 20 13:13:55 Stskeeps: like 640x480 Oct 20 13:13:57 it's limited to three spatial dimensions Oct 20 13:13:58 wazd: let's get them in our hands first before speculating Oct 20 13:13:58 wazd: I think it is an extra screen copy Oct 20 13:14:13 wazd: i doubt you'll be able to have 3d strippoker but clutter may just work. Oct 20 13:14:15 ah.. that full-of-bugs 3d driver... Oct 20 13:14:18 Well, OMAP2 has got an internal screen buffer with 640x480 resolution. Oct 20 13:14:21 clutter works with it Oct 20 13:14:29 I understand that OGLES renders stuff there Oct 20 13:14:40 Once it renders to that buffer you still need to send it to the Blizzard chip Oct 20 13:14:41 hrw: things have improved, some claim Oct 20 13:14:45 at least worked. I saw 3D demo on n810 prototype ~2 years ago Oct 20 13:15:05 Whether it can be done with a DMA or you need to do an extra CPU copy, I have no idea Oct 20 13:15:07 3d as "opengl es" Oct 20 13:17:07 is there way to access location information in maemo 5 style from pymaemo? Oct 20 13:17:12 Stskeeps: who needs it without strippoker?! Oct 20 13:19:24 kirma: there are no bindings for location API yet (AFAIK) :( But if you feel brave, you can try accessing the C API from Python using ctypes, Jaffa had success doing that for the addressbook API Oct 20 13:19:32 wazd: You really want OGLES-rendered strippers? Sure? Oct 20 13:19:42 RST38h: :D Oct 20 13:19:45 lizardo: yep, that sort of came to my mind. Oct 20 13:20:14 I should first set up the SDK successfully. somehow my first try failed very convincingly... Oct 20 13:20:54 as if the SDK installation process would have been designed to weed out non-hardcore developers ;> Oct 20 13:21:07 kirma: Install SDK+ Oct 20 13:21:10 kirma: it probably was Oct 20 13:21:34 SDK+ basically installs by adding their repo and selecting packages in Aptitude Oct 20 13:21:34 * mgedmin didn't have much luck with SDK+ a year ago Oct 20 13:21:48 that was a year ago, and even then SDK+ was way easier to use Oct 20 13:22:10 it installed fine, but then you couldn't apt-get install anything inside the sbox environment, making it useless Oct 20 13:22:20 I hope it's better now? Oct 20 13:23:10 The use case for MS Surface finally found: http://gizmodo.com/5385625/dungeons--dragons-on-the-microsoft-surface Oct 20 13:23:13 Funny statistics: author of the most popular app for maemo earned 5 bucks a month for it from Nokia :) Oct 20 13:23:30 mgedmin; Well, I did apt-get install and it seemed to work for me now Oct 20 13:24:21 what _is_ the most popular maemo app? Oct 20 13:24:26 wazd: "ne zhdi, ne boisya, ne prosi" Oct 20 13:24:27 RST38h: cool! Oct 20 13:24:29 andre___: ping Oct 20 13:24:45 mgedmin: Check Maemo Downloads? Oct 20 13:24:46 thp, pong Oct 20 13:24:58 RST38h: :) Oct 20 13:25:14 andre___: bug 1129 should be reopened in my opinion. i just added a new comment. Oct 20 13:25:20 please have a look :) Oct 20 13:25:45 Stskeeps, you still have to workaround https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4023 and 3939 , right? :-/ Oct 20 13:25:45 hey, infobot, can you fetch but titles from bugzilla when somebody mentions a bug number/url? Oct 20 13:25:45 s/but/bug/ Oct 20 13:25:45 mgedmin meant: hey, infobot, can you fetch bug titles from bugzilla when somebody mentions a bug number/url? Oct 20 13:25:45 andre___: checking Oct 20 13:25:47 anyone had any issue with ssh in n900? Oct 20 13:25:47 i login to the device and a few moments later it stops responding Oct 20 13:25:47 searched for bugs and couldn't find anything Oct 20 13:25:55 thp, thanks Oct 20 13:25:58 etrunko: try to disable WiFi powersaving Oct 20 13:25:59 etrunko: wifi power savings Oct 20 13:26:07 \o/ Oct 20 13:26:14 andre___: 4023 yes i think - i havent caught up to all sources Oct 20 13:26:33 etrunko: a workaround that has worked for me is to listen to a web radio stream on the device, which seems to make the connection more responsive.. Oct 20 13:26:42 andre___: 3939 wasn't directly fixed but we haven't checked it recently Oct 20 13:26:53 hmm, okay Oct 20 13:27:06 thp: so it seems you can't leave the device downloading stuff then.. Oct 20 13:28:47 etrunko: i believe that as long as something is utilizing the network connection on the device, the connection will stay open / responsive Oct 20 13:32:44 thp: couldn't find where to disable it Oct 20 13:33:46 etrunko: Settings -> Internet connections -> Connections -> (pick yours) -> Edit -> Next (3x) -> Advanced -> Other -> Power saving Oct 20 13:34:01 ouch Oct 20 13:34:12 very intuitive. ;) Oct 20 13:34:12 easy, isn't it? Oct 20 13:34:24 still, it's better than it was on a n810 Oct 20 13:34:29 hehe Oct 20 13:34:48 where you had to go back in the middle, then disconnect, then repeat everything, then reconnect Oct 20 13:35:22 thankfully you only do this once (for every wlan that has a broken access point that doesn't support power savings properly) Oct 20 13:36:23 I've a very weird bug that started to happen with the last reflash, each time I install a new app, the scroll in "more" screen disappear until I restart the device Oct 20 13:36:37 good morning Oct 20 13:36:41 VDVsx: workaround is "killall hildon-desktop" in xterm Oct 20 13:36:56 VDVsx: it passes if you lie down for a while Oct 20 13:37:06 etrunko, those push n900 projects are cool! Oct 20 13:37:15 IIRC the bug is closed as fixed in bugzilla, we'll get the fix with the next firmware image Oct 20 13:37:24 ah, I'm not the only one with this issue :) lol Oct 20 13:37:33 the piggy bank is a really great idea for kids Oct 20 13:37:34 lcuk: yeah, the guys did a great job Oct 20 13:37:59 piggybank? as in, here's a piggybank for you, if you drop a pound in it every day you'll be able to buy yourself a n900 in a couple of years? Oct 20 13:38:22 i almost choked on my coffee when i saw the N9POV one Oct 20 13:38:31 okay, I need a link now Oct 20 13:38:38 mgedmin, they are here http://wouwlabs.com/blogs/jeez/ Oct 20 13:39:13 hi guys Oct 20 13:39:18 i was sent here from #mer :) Oct 20 13:39:29 i'm wondering about the cheapest way to do this: have a mobile or landline phone number in the UK; people call this number and calls get forwarded to me over some form of internet based technology (for example skype, voip, etc). this is so that I can move freely around the world. Oct 20 13:40:30 cheater55, get a long extension cord Oct 20 13:40:47 cheater55: maybe skypein instead? Oct 20 13:41:14 what's skypein? Oct 20 13:41:14 * cheater55 googles Oct 20 13:41:28 etrunko: I ssh a lot into my N900 and I did not know about that power saving thing either. In fact, it's now at maximum power saving. But I never encountered any problems with my ssh sessions. Oct 20 13:41:47 power saving? Oct 20 13:41:48 * w00t reads up Oct 20 13:42:00 ah Oct 20 13:42:00 hmm Oct 20 13:42:03 makes sense Oct 20 13:42:07 how do you mean power saving? Oct 20 13:42:08 that's almost exactly what i was looking for, stskeeps! Oct 20 13:42:11 mihu, depends on how much network activity you have. Oct 20 13:42:15 ~wifi-psm Oct 20 13:42:16 extra, extra, read all about it, wifi-psm is http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM) Oct 20 13:42:27 great! Oct 20 13:42:30 i can't get mine to last much over a day. perhaps i have a crap battery Oct 20 13:42:58 GeneralAntilles: Hm, perhaps it's the fact that I have permanent contact to my Jabber account that makes the link to stay up. Oct 20 13:42:59 vesa: Crappy software is more likely. Oct 20 13:43:14 vesa: Or at least software which doesn't let the device sleep correctly. Oct 20 13:43:35 I'm trying to convince my boss to book a N900. It is true that it is a development platform for maemo? I've read all the presentation, but I don't find info about N900. I also like to install QT4.5. Oct 20 13:43:36 hmm. good point, i'll have a quick scan whats eating cpu Oct 20 13:43:39 thx Oct 20 13:45:18 recalcati_, i think its 4.6 isnt it Oct 20 13:45:23 Ugh Oct 20 13:45:24 what do you mean by development platform? Oct 20 13:45:29 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3298 Oct 20 13:45:30 recalcati_: seen http://maemo.org/development/ ? Oct 20 13:45:37 Stupid, idiotic spec. Oct 20 13:45:47 It's like it was invented by people who hate usability. Oct 20 13:45:57 recalcati_: the development platform for maemo is a laptop running the maemo 5 sdk, which is a linux command-line based programming environment Oct 20 13:46:03 dude, all UI designers hate usability and user friendliness Oct 20 13:46:07 that's their job Oct 20 13:46:09 the n900 is a device running maemo 5, and is indispensable for testing Oct 20 13:46:22 there are various IDEs and virtual machine images built around the SDK to make development easier Oct 20 13:46:35 thx. I will use beagleboard to access jtag, instead for N900 maemo I'd like to install applications and for example do some video streaming (I have to study !!!) Oct 20 13:46:38 GeneralAntilles: agreed Oct 20 13:46:52 sure, you can do that with a n900 Oct 20 13:47:01 X-Fade: are there known battery-eating apps (like facebook widget/rss)? Oct 20 13:47:01 and some people install C compilers and build stuff directly on a n900 Oct 20 13:47:05 andre___, since I expect a lot more stupid decisions coming out of Nokia, can we shoot for more of a reporter advocacy stance than a Nokia advocacy stance? Oct 20 13:47:13 GeneralAntilles: i think the more pertinent question is *why* was it dropped from spec :) Oct 20 13:47:14 recalcati_: qt 4.5.3 supports maemo5. qt4.6 has it merged Oct 20 13:47:22 w00t, because Nokia designers are idiots. Oct 20 13:47:24 just looking at top there's only Xorg but that's nothing special i guess Oct 20 13:47:29 recalcati_: Kate A. from Nokia wrote something about it recently Oct 20 13:47:33 vesa: I suspect the facebook widget, but currently have no evidence against it Oct 20 13:47:33 GeneralAntilles: a slightly less inflammatory reason ;) Oct 20 13:47:34 :S gen Oct 20 13:47:36 w00t, and the spec often gets in the way of rational thought. Oct 20 13:47:52 vesa: you might want to play with powertop (as root) Oct 20 13:47:53 mgedmin: mmm, i'll take that out and see how well it fares Oct 20 13:47:54 lcuk, you can talk when you've been fighting them since the 770 days. :) Oct 20 13:47:57 recalcati_: check planet.maemo.org Oct 20 13:48:03 GeneralAntilles: i suspect that it wasn't done deliberately to piss people off, so it would be interesting to know what really did lead to it Oct 20 13:48:08 although igor stoppa said on the list it's not really the best tool for this Oct 20 13:48:19 GeneralAntilles, there's nothing explaining the reasons in the internal ticket Oct 20 13:48:38 * mgedmin defends Nokia designers Oct 20 13:48:43 andre___, my point is that it might offer us a way forward if we change closed bugs to enhancements. Oct 20 13:48:54 gen but a spec gives people defined targets and stops everybody being headless chickens Oct 20 13:48:56 the FB widget does not seem very useful, as clicking on the entries does not even take me to that entry Oct 20 13:48:59 w00t, usually the reasoning is something along the lines of "you might hurt yourself" Oct 20 13:49:01 So, maemo 5 run on N900. I will need aslo an eclipse plugin with emulator and download through usb and step-by-step debugging Oct 20 13:49:19 andre___: the problem is that this external bugzilla is the only way for public people to make requests, whereas the internal one is only about whether the software meets the spec. so maybe we need to forward this to be a bug in the spec internally, not the implementation. Oct 20 13:49:21 lcuk, unfortunately in the case of Maemo it also gives lazy people an instant trump card. Oct 20 13:49:21 GeneralAntilles, my big problem is that I'm always unsure whether to keep stuff open for Harmattan. It's hard to find out :-/ Oct 20 13:49:25 mgedmin: thanks, i'll try that Oct 20 13:49:53 I've never had much luck changing (even utterly utterly broken) specs via internal bugzilla Oct 20 13:49:59 andre___, I'm inclined to say chase them down. Oct 20 13:50:03 I think there's some other tool, or you have to just go and scream at them Oct 20 13:50:11 andre___, get a real answer, and if the answer sucks get the answer fixed. Oct 20 13:50:20 mornin Robot101 \o Oct 20 13:50:25 * w00t would agree with that Oct 20 13:50:30 * crashanddie is confused Oct 20 13:50:32 Robot101, if something is internally WONTFIXed for Fremantle I clone them to Harmattan (if the infrastructure is already in place) Oct 20 13:50:38 One of our customers is a new bank Oct 20 13:50:44 GeneralAntilles: on the internal bugzilla, if you're looking at a piece of software, "the spec doesn't say its meant to do that" *is* a correct answer. Oct 20 13:50:48 On the wikipedia page of the founder, it says "Hill founded Commerce Bancorp in 1973, basing its business model on that of the Burger King restaurants that he'd once owned." Oct 20 13:50:49 Because the way things are happening now sucks. Oct 20 13:51:00 GeneralAntilles: the problem is this doesn't hold well on the external bugzilla, because there's no /other/ way to complain about the spec Oct 20 13:51:07 Robot101, clearly something about our current process needs to change then. Oct 20 13:51:18 so it's going to be something like "Take out a mortgage with Metro Bank, get a free Angus Burger with chips" ? Oct 20 13:51:57 GeneralAntilles: so that bugs.maemo.org has some recourse with the people who control the specs (or indeed the requirements), yes Oct 20 13:52:02 surely the acceptable way forward would be to provide a component (or something) for a spec target? Oct 20 13:52:25 that exists Oct 20 13:52:41 Robot101, we have a product for the spec, but it's basically a black hole. Oct 20 13:52:52 Robot101, so, we're not much better off than we were 3 years ago. . . . Oct 20 13:52:59 maybe we should move WONTFIX stuff to UI Spec and keep it open so it can be tried again for harmattan Oct 20 13:53:01 Robot101: the community will never defined requirements Oct 20 13:53:11 * ShadowJK would guess the spec appeal procedure goes through the Nokia Care blackhole Oct 20 13:53:14 andre___: yeah, that was what I meant Oct 20 13:53:19 GeneralAntilles: the internal one isn't much better fwiw, its never been clear to me how you actually get through to the UI designers to discuss why you think something is busted Oct 20 13:53:34 GeneralAntilles: they usually get offended and say its not a bug and invalidate it Oct 20 13:53:36 Robot101, it feels to me like you don't. Oct 20 13:53:50 Clearly something about that process needs to change. Oct 20 13:53:56 Perhaps time for a new Brainstorm. <_< Oct 20 13:54:02 if you run around in Helsinki and get someone to introduce you to the right person and sketch on a napkin why it's broken... :) Oct 20 13:54:08 maemo.org needs napkin-waving runners Oct 20 13:54:32 Somebody besides me should open that one, though, because I'm just going to call them all fscking idiots. Oct 20 13:54:45 new "depends" line for .debs: napkin-waving. Package napkin-waving was not found. Oct 20 13:54:48 ....which does not really help change things Oct 20 13:55:04 GeneralAntilles: you misspelt "fucking" Oct 20 13:55:05 but basically I'm saying the problem here is just echoing an internal one, its not even clear how to actually influence UI specs on the internal bugzilla. I don't think you can. Oct 20 13:55:22 Robot101, heh, exactly :-/ Oct 20 13:55:25 Robot101: UI is something very complicated Oct 20 13:55:27 fscking is a perfectly cromulent euphemism Oct 20 13:55:30 So, who wants to volunteer to put this issue on Brainstorm? Oct 20 13:55:35 well, from a "sell-it-to-management" perspective Oct 20 13:55:36 but by all means, you should raise with N the problem that spec bugs on the public bugzilla don't seem to go anywhere Oct 20 13:55:55 ifreq: ah Oct 20 13:56:14 Robot101, that issue's been raised in the past and sadly it still doesn't seem to go anywhere. Oct 20 13:56:20 The spec product was the result Oct 20 13:56:26 kirma: youve must multitask Oct 20 13:56:27 alright guys Oct 20 13:56:27 :) Oct 20 13:56:28 thanks a lot! Oct 20 13:56:30 but I don't know that anybody who actually cares actually watches that. Oct 20 13:56:47 reopen the issue then :) Oct 20 13:57:00 http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop Oct 20 13:57:01 excellent Oct 20 13:57:30 Stskeeps: Now ask for commit access :) Oct 20 13:57:38 I can only quote an internal comment from today: "It's better with Fremantle than in earlier releases because we had the SDKs out earlier. I hope this will get better in Harmattan as more of the code development moves to open version control and even some design/arch docs are being opened." Oct 20 13:57:55 GeneralAntilles: i'd be happy to sort it out if you give me a hand with the process Oct 20 13:57:58 Robot101, just need to find somebody who can do so without impinging the virtuosity of certain people's mothers. . . . Oct 20 13:58:30 Stskeeps: that is good. Oct 20 13:58:46 GeneralAntilles: :P Oct 20 13:59:50 * GeneralAntilles nominates Jaffa, actually. Oct 20 14:00:19 GeneralAntilles: Catch penguinbait the next time he is around Oct 20 14:00:30 doesn't bother me, so long as it gets done :) Oct 20 14:00:32 qwerty12_N810 :P Oct 20 14:00:39 'without impinging the virtousity of certain people's mothers', qwerty12_N810 Oct 20 14:00:43 I'm pretty sure he's not familiar enough with the issue. :D Oct 20 14:01:03 lol Oct 20 14:01:21 Stskeeps: I thought it's me who likes to run his mouth? ;) Oct 20 14:01:34 qwerty, I'm now cleaning coke off my monitor thanks to you. Oct 20 14:01:48 :p Oct 20 14:01:51 :) Oct 20 14:02:18 everyone at work is staring. lol Oct 20 14:09:10 Stskeeps, i always thought hildon desktop was fully open anyway Oct 20 14:09:57 don't get me started on dependancies thougfh.. Oct 20 14:10:30 * w00t presses the 'start' button Oct 20 14:10:36 go go Oct 20 14:10:48 boom Oct 20 14:11:05 * mgedmin reaches for the 'stop' button Oct 20 14:11:29 lol Oct 20 14:11:32 hey Oct 20 14:11:37 he hadn't even reached supernova point yet Oct 20 14:11:38 ;) Oct 20 14:13:04 Question for n900 owners: what would be the best time for you for a extras-testing marathon ? week day or weekend ? Oct 20 14:13:49 VDVsx: weekend or (Finnish) evening Oct 20 14:14:36 But what's an extras-testing marathon? testing stuff in extras repo? Doing something else? Oct 20 14:15:26 yeah marathon asap, plese. Oct 20 14:15:27 It's where we go around thumbing down everything uploaded by VDVsx Oct 20 14:15:33 VDVsx: After it arrives. Oct 20 14:15:34 Ah, awesome, VDVsx, the pleading hadn't been working so well. ;) Oct 20 14:16:28 two more votes for my wallpaper packagek plz? Oct 20 14:16:42 On a related note, go and rate personal-ip-address and personal-gprs-mon! Oct 20 14:16:49 zerojayN900: remind me of the package name, please Oct 20 14:16:52 simple-brightness-applet! Oct 20 14:16:57 * VDVsx hits qwerty12_N810 and disable all his maemo fake accounts Oct 20 14:17:09 * fiferboy has voted for both of those... Oct 20 14:17:14 * qwerty12_N810 must make more.... Oct 20 14:17:19 fiferboy: did you decide to revert gprs-mon to previous design? Oct 20 14:17:19 classic-gaming-wallpapers Oct 20 14:17:25 ha. Illusion of Gaia crashes drnoksnes up to the point not even the sdl parachute works. Oct 20 14:17:28 mgedmin: There is an option :) Oct 20 14:17:33 ah! Oct 20 14:18:02 ok, it's about time for the n900 to be released. Oct 20 14:18:05 also, try out adblock plus! Oct 20 14:18:07 * pH5 just sat on his n810 Oct 20 14:18:14 lol Oct 20 14:18:18 ouch Oct 20 14:18:25 :/ Oct 20 14:18:49 good evening :) Oct 20 14:18:58 pH5: Lame. I've dropped my N800 so many times, on hard surfaces and it's still alive Oct 20 14:19:07 Evening, pH5 Oct 20 14:19:28 I dropped my N810 and the cover and battery come out >.< Oct 20 14:19:31 oh, dropping it can take. Oct 20 14:19:47 *came Oct 20 14:19:51 bending seems to be a problem Oct 20 14:19:51 qwerty12_N810: ouch. That happened to me too. I need MagSafe power cable. Oct 20 14:20:37 Yet another project. Oct 20 14:20:37 * mgedmin cracked one N810 screen, probably with his elbow, and broke another N810 stand's the intermediate positions after dropping it Oct 20 14:20:44 javispedro: Heh... I still think the N800 is better made :) Oct 20 14:20:46 magsafe cables ++ Oct 20 14:20:50 I've got a magsafe-alike-USB cable that sort-of-works. Oct 20 14:20:55 I just need to get it right. Oct 20 14:21:48 I had a Wiimote strap attached to my phone. Little did I know it was part of the batch that had a tendency to break easily... Oct 20 14:21:50 (power + USB) Oct 20 14:22:07 as usual, evilQwerty. Oct 20 14:23:05 javispedro: Well, you already know my thoughts on the Wii itself :p Oct 20 14:25:08 WA? There's now another topic about N900 shipping? Oct 20 14:25:26 So, I book an N900 and it will be my QT and Maemo application platform ! Oct 20 14:28:38 If install qt on N900 it goes on working as a phone ? Oct 20 14:28:39 javispedro, didnt you know, they renamed the site: talkaboutn900shipping.maemo.org Oct 20 14:28:54 :) Oct 20 14:28:55 one more thumbs up for simple brightness. Oct 20 14:29:00 it will always be tmo for me. Oct 20 14:29:06 itt Oct 20 14:29:08 Thanks, zerojay Oct 20 14:29:20 lcuk: touché. Oct 20 14:29:24 thanks for making itl Oct 20 14:29:29 . Oct 20 14:30:20 recalcati_: yes Oct 20 14:30:29 * BBNS breakfast checked, t.m.o checked, qt lab checked, engadget checked, slashdot checked ... time to go to work. Oct 20 14:30:30 btw what's the state of qt? Oct 20 14:30:35 the official nokia port is not ready yet Oct 20 14:30:43 how well does the community one work on a n900? Oct 20 14:30:45 I've no clue Oct 20 14:30:47 just got a 300 euro bill from the hospital :( Oct 20 14:30:47 and little interest Oct 20 14:30:51 how can i afford the n900 now Oct 20 14:31:01 mgedmin, what do you mean not ready yet? :Q Oct 20 14:31:01 but I'd suggest recalcati_ research that if he wants to develop qt apps for maemo 5 Oct 20 14:31:18 BBNS: the very first "technical preview" alpha version was released recently Oct 20 14:31:19 Ceron^: Put the person asking you for money in hospital... Oct 20 14:31:25 and people complained that it doesn't compile Oct 20 14:31:25 Ceron^: you will get another for your carpal sundrome treatment after surfing on the net with N90 ;) Oct 20 14:31:31 that's all I know Oct 20 14:31:44 mgedmin, isn't that Qt already bundle in maemo sdk already? Oct 20 14:31:50 mgedmin, erm. Oct 20 14:31:55 mgedmin, that's of the Harmattan framework. Oct 20 14:32:00 s/N90/N900/ Oct 20 14:32:01 mgedmin: thx, I hope it will be solved. By now I have only to plan the booking of the device. Oct 20 14:32:01 qwerty12_N810, wheres the voting page for simple brightness Oct 20 14:32:05 mgedmin, Qt was just released officially supported. Oct 20 14:32:20 mgedmin, the community-supported version has been available forever. Oct 20 14:32:26 QT4.5 is in SDK and on device by default. Oct 20 14:32:30 recalcati_, that's misinformed... Qt is ready. Oct 20 14:32:33 lcuk: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/simple-brightness-applet/1.1-1maemo0/ - thanks! Oct 20 14:32:34 well, cool then Oct 20 14:32:35 \o/ Oct 20 14:32:42 I got the wrong impression at the summit, apparently Oct 20 14:32:48 * lcuk is pleased qt is on device by default Oct 20 14:32:57 A worrying thought: People already spam boards just to boast their post count. On tmo, spamming the board hard enough will get you a dev discount. Oct 20 14:33:06 are there any qt apps in maemo 5? Oct 20 14:33:16 javispedro: I thought the discounts were set Oct 20 14:33:20 javispedro: and unchanging - now Oct 20 14:33:22 oh :\ Oct 20 14:33:27 SpeedEvil: I think they're already racing for n920... Oct 20 14:33:30 javispedro: I hope they change discount criteria randomly to prevent people from gaming the system Oct 20 14:33:30 javispedro: Well, karma is sqrt(posts) there. Oct 20 14:33:33 can someone give me a dev discount Oct 20 14:33:35 D: Oct 20 14:33:37 BBNS: thx Oct 20 14:33:50 qwerty12_N810, you just got your 10/10 :) Oct 20 14:34:05 javispedro: Possibly. I just hope my (non-karma-based) discount works - or I won't have a 900 for a while. Oct 20 14:34:15 tho somehow my last vote has gone 2 hours behind zerojays Oct 20 14:34:18 lcuk: Hehe, racing for the button... :) Oct 20 14:34:19 Maybe if such threads could be just moved wholesale over to offtopic, and all counts acquired from that thread would be automagically removed Oct 20 14:34:25 * Jaffa has just had lunch with some Forum Nokia people. They seemed quite nice, considering ;-) Oct 20 14:34:41 anyone with Diablo sb in front of them? Oct 20 14:34:45 X-Fade: so what, they just need 1,606938044e+460 posts to get a discount ;) Oct 20 14:34:48 anyway qt for maemo id qt over x11 Oct 20 14:34:48 They want to turn me into a Symbian hobby developer... arargh! Oct 20 14:34:54 Ah, are they ultra-busy processing certains mails, perhaps? Oct 20 14:34:54 not qt on fb Oct 20 14:34:57 lardman: kinda Oct 20 14:34:58 javispedro: So they need 40k posts at least ;) Oct 20 14:35:08 javispedro: 8*sqrt(thanks) though. Oct 20 14:35:17 IIRC Oct 20 14:35:24 (lol, javispedro can't make gcalctool work) Oct 20 14:35:51 Jaffa, nothing wrong with that lol Oct 20 14:36:11 mgedmin: could you do an apt-cache search libsoup for me please? Oct 20 14:36:27 lcuk: Since you are voting... Oct 20 14:36:31 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/personal-gprs-mon/0.5-3/ Oct 20 14:36:35 lardman: shoot Oct 20 14:36:41 ouch. Oct 20 14:36:45 i'm late. Oct 20 14:36:46 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/personal-ip-address/0.3-5/ Oct 20 14:37:06 lardman: no results Oct 20 14:37:16 I get libsoup2.2-dev - an HTTP library implementation in C -- Development files Oct 20 14:37:16 libsoup2.2-8 - an HTTP library implementation in C -- Shared library Oct 20 14:37:29 lardman: I've got sdk and tools repos only Oct 20 14:37:33 hmm, ok, thanks Oct 20 14:37:36 fiferboy, i havent got gprs mon on Oct 20 14:37:41 might be in extras Oct 20 14:37:45 I only have deb-src lines for extras Oct 20 14:37:46 and i really hate the fact they are in different places Oct 20 14:37:47 yeah, they come from extras or devel (where's than whence package when you need it?) Oct 20 14:37:54 javispedro, ill install it Oct 20 14:37:54 yeah, will need to downgrade the version I'm requiring Oct 20 14:37:55 and test Oct 20 14:38:00 but i cant test until i have gprs data Oct 20 14:38:17 i have a bug at the moment tho Oct 20 14:38:21 thanks chaps Oct 20 14:38:31 hi simon Oct 20 14:38:33 lcuk: Me neither... well, I can test the functionality by faking the GPRS data in gconf Oct 20 14:38:40 thats not the same Oct 20 14:38:40 :P Oct 20 14:38:48 I can't quite understand when gprs data counter resets Oct 20 14:38:52 i cant open app menu Oct 20 14:39:00 mgedmin: You do it manually through the control panel Oct 20 14:39:02 never Oct 20 14:39:09 fiferboy wrote it with 128bit ints Oct 20 14:39:13 fiferboy: I never did it, yet I've seen the numbers go down Oct 20 14:39:28 mgedmin: Does it show a reset date? Oct 20 14:39:39 dunno, I haven't looked Oct 20 14:39:43 qwerty has already rolled the counter round a few times with his torrent downloads ;) Oct 20 14:40:08 no, if I enable 'show reset date' I get an empty space below the numbers Oct 20 14:40:32 mgedmin: Strange, it should show "Never" Oct 20 14:40:34 currently I see 370 kb, and I know that I ought to have at least 50 megs Oct 20 14:40:39 aha! bug! :) Oct 20 14:40:48 mgedmin: If you go into the phone section of the control panel, what does it say for GPRS data there? Oct 20 14:40:48 this is in compact mode btw Oct 20 14:40:56 i've reported it before. Oct 20 14:40:58 128 bit ints? what, you're transferring entire universes through GPRS? Oct 20 14:41:15 the phone flips out and erases your totals. Oct 20 14:41:17 cpanel says received: 370 kB, last reset: never Oct 20 14:41:21 javispedro: I beleive lcuk was speaking with his tongue in his cheek Oct 20 14:41:38 reboot might reset the counters Oct 20 14:41:38 mmnmnnmn Oct 20 14:41:46 andre__ looks like that bug isn't closed after all. Oct 20 14:41:53 I think he was speaking with bacon in his tongue ;) Oct 20 14:41:54 no, reboot doesn't. Oct 20 14:41:57 mmm Oct 20 14:41:58 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/source/Sources.gz 401 Unauthorized ? Oct 20 14:42:01 mgedmin: Okay, so GPRS mon is reporting the same? Oct 20 14:42:06 mgedmin: getting that too. Oct 20 14:42:09 yep, Oct 20 14:42:09 yes. Oct 20 14:42:23 lcuk: You should be able to type clearly with your tongue in your cheek... Oct 20 14:42:23 except for the empty space instead of 'never' Oct 20 14:42:29 it's a phone bug, not an app issue. Oct 20 14:42:40 he got bacon on his fingers and not in his mouth! Oct 20 14:42:54 speech to text Oct 20 14:42:55 mgedmin: I haven't seen that. You are in compact mode with reset date on? Oct 20 14:43:05 frals, thats it - my fingers slipped Oct 20 14:43:07 yes, fiferboy Oct 20 14:43:19 want a screenshot? Oct 20 14:43:24 mgedmin: Please Oct 20 14:43:28 fiferboy i told you about this before. Oct 20 14:43:39 mgedmin: If you remove the widget and add it again, does it work? Oct 20 14:43:53 don't know, can't be bothered to find out Oct 20 14:43:54 zerojayN900: About the reset date not displaying? Or the counter getting reset randomly? Oct 20 14:44:15 random resets. Oct 20 14:44:24 mgedmin: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5622 Oct 20 14:44:42 mgedmin: Pinging Marcell ;) Oct 20 14:45:19 fiferboy: Make a bug requesting for the headers of libconnui to be available in SB (and a library to link to, of course..) Oct 20 14:45:43 s/in SB/in the Fremantle SDK, nokia-binaries repo/ Oct 20 14:45:45 qwerty12_N810 meant: fiferboy: Make a bug requesting for the headers of libconnui to be available in the Fremantle SDK, nokia-binaries repo (and a library to link to, of course..) Oct 20 14:46:06 fiferboy: http://share.ovi.com/media/mgedmin.N900screenshots/mgedmin.10003 Oct 20 14:46:10 also: ovi sucks Oct 20 14:46:25 can somebody write a sharing plugin for some sane picture sharing site? Oct 20 14:46:26 qwerty12_N810: Actually, in the latest SDK it no longer crashes when adding a libconnui object... Oct 20 14:46:29 andre___, that was easy :roll:. Oct 20 14:46:32 what are sane picture sharing sites? Oct 20 14:46:39 sane? Oct 20 14:46:44 mgedmin, flickr? Oct 20 14:46:49 ^ Oct 20 14:46:52 flickr frowns upon screenshots, iirc Oct 20 14:46:57 nahh Oct 20 14:46:59 no. Oct 20 14:47:02 its a photo Oct 20 14:47:04 they just ban your account from the mainpage. Oct 20 14:47:06 GeneralAntilles, haha. now if they'd only use query internally instead of having three tickets about the same thing... Oct 20 14:47:07 o_O Oct 20 14:47:08 fiferboy: Oh, they're already available? Oct 20 14:47:12 flickr ftw. Oct 20 14:47:19 ok flickr is evil Oct 20 14:47:20 lol Oct 20 14:47:20 * mgedmin uses flickr for photos Oct 20 14:47:22 fiferboy: Or a ConIC object? Oct 20 14:47:28 * lcuk just takes photos Oct 20 14:47:36 qwerty12_N810: Well, it still doesn't like it, but it doesn't crash Oct 20 14:47:41 moved imageselect into the lib Oct 20 14:47:45 qwerty12_N810: Oops, ConIC object, sorry Oct 20 14:49:27 fiferboy: Yeah, I still think filing a bug requesting libconnui's -dev package to be available in nokia-binaries. Case in point: Personal GRPS (GPRS, sorry ;)) Monitor and its usage of GConf directly, when Nokia already have this sorted out... Oct 20 14:49:55 qwerty12_N810: ask for icd2 when you file that bug too ;) Oct 20 14:50:10 ah well, only -dev packages. Oct 20 14:50:11 nm. Oct 20 14:50:21 where should I report the fact that the newest PC Suite assumes the n900's language is always English? Oct 20 14:50:35 javispedro: Well, it's like what libconic is to icd2 and what libosso is to mce Oct 20 14:51:44 aka something that won't ever be fully opened. Oct 20 14:53:22 mgedmin: I was able to reproduce the reset date not showing up, now to see if I can fix it... Oct 20 14:55:25 mgedmin: I think I have fixed the bug, just need to test. Oct 20 14:56:28 ~lart idiots on t.m.o Oct 20 14:56:28 * infobot frags idiots on t.m.o with his BFG9000 Oct 20 14:56:40 infobot: cookie Oct 20 14:56:43 Hey crashanddie, roflao is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWgs6YQR9A Oct 20 14:56:57 hmm? Oct 20 14:56:59 * javispedro clicks link hoping its not goatse Oct 20 14:57:39 * javispedro closes window and bans infobot Oct 20 14:57:46 javispedro: agreed Oct 20 14:58:39 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=352667#post352667 Oct 20 14:59:18 * absolute searches for a firefox plugin that will exit his browser anytime n900 is entered into a search box Oct 20 14:59:33 read the two-before-last post Oct 20 15:00:09 lcuk: sorry, hi, missed your comment Oct 20 15:04:36 full metal jacket is exactly like real boot camp.. it is amazing Oct 20 15:04:38 :) Oct 20 15:04:52 hey lardman Oct 20 15:05:10 hmm, shall I write in that thread my proposal to just multiply all TMO karma by 0.0000000000001 Oct 20 15:05:12 ? Oct 20 15:05:22 lardman: NO THANKS! Oct 20 15:05:25 hi lcuk Oct 20 15:05:42 javispedro: careful, if you disagree I'll one touch band and clean you ;) Oct 20 15:05:46 lardman: Please do, then I can use that No Thanks! button on you ;) Oct 20 15:05:48 lol Oct 20 15:05:49 s/band/ban Oct 20 15:06:12 no thanks flood before the next device discount. heh Oct 20 15:06:21 well I don't think we should have a "No thanks" button Oct 20 15:06:37 but "Thanks" is not really being used the way it should be Oct 20 15:06:42 We should have "Thanks", "I agree", and "FINISH HIM!" buttons. Oct 20 15:06:46 yeah Oct 20 15:06:52 we need complex karma, multiply it by sqrt(-1) Oct 20 15:06:53 at least the first 2 Oct 20 15:06:58 haha Oct 20 15:06:59 The karma whore side of me will cry if there is a No Thanks! button Oct 20 15:07:05 lol Oct 20 15:07:05 javispedro: rofl Oct 20 15:07:14 haha Oct 20 15:07:23 Haha Oct 20 15:07:28 No Thanks! will just be vindictive. Oct 20 15:07:36 indeed Oct 20 15:07:39 is a bad thing Oct 20 15:07:57 i like the slashdot way Oct 20 15:08:03 multiple moderation types Oct 20 15:08:11 and configurable scores for viewing Oct 20 15:08:23 isn't it a bit too late for n900 developer program anyway? Oct 20 15:08:55 lcuk, we don't have enough users for that. Oct 20 15:08:59 well i wondered that - if someone with nearly 200 karma could work hard enough to become eligable Oct 20 15:09:04 GeneralAntilles, yet Oct 20 15:09:04 to be honest, I'd prefer not to be innovative in this aspect and just follow what IPB or vB or whatever tmo uses guidelines. Oct 20 15:09:12 as we discussed at the summit, what is karma even for, that's the first thing to establish Oct 20 15:09:25 lcuk: is karma 13 “nearly 200”? Oct 20 15:09:32 yeah Oct 20 15:09:33 * Corsac hides Oct 20 15:09:36 e.g. dev devices, use for new people to know if you know what you're talking about, etc., etc. Oct 20 15:09:37 if you squint a bit Oct 20 15:09:47 lardman: they'd get it wrong and divide by 0.0000000000001 Oct 20 15:09:49 and set the high mark to over 9000 Oct 20 15:09:56 Personally, a Reputation system, instead of Thanks!, would be slightly more closer to karma in the way that you can thumb up/down posts Oct 20 15:10:01 lol Oct 20 15:10:17 The whole idea of karma is to make contributors visible. Oct 20 15:10:30 * zerojayN900 clicks the Finish Him! button. Oct 20 15:10:33 I would rather see an intelligence meter Oct 20 15:10:41 so that you could actually "dumb" up/down posts Oct 20 15:10:42 we should just use the same algorithm as that puts lardman on the front page Oct 20 15:10:54 indeed :) Oct 20 15:11:08 there's an algorithm that puts lardman on the front page? Oct 20 15:11:13 liqbase physics view on the front with all the people Oct 20 15:11:13 Did you hear that rumour about "The lardman paradox" X-Files episode? Oct 20 15:11:20 that's just inertia, I've been transitioning away from the front page for the past 8 months, just starting to accelerate now Oct 20 15:11:21 haha Oct 20 15:11:30 lcuk: He's VIP, didn't you know? He's been a part of maemo.org since 1970... Oct 20 15:11:40 :D Oct 20 15:11:45 Hell, he's the real admin, not X-Fade Oct 20 15:11:47 Strodingers bacon Oct 20 15:12:03 qwerty12_N810: I deny everything. Oct 20 15:12:09 lcuk: can be eaten and vomited at the same time? Oct 20 15:12:12 if theres an x-files episode - who is mulder and who is scully? Oct 20 15:12:33 X-Fade: Heh Oct 20 15:12:43 lcuk: schroedinger? Oct 20 15:12:44 * SpeedEvil puts on the Bloodhound Gang. Oct 20 15:12:54 lcuk: helena is scully, fo so Oct 20 15:13:08 fox would probably be jaffa Oct 20 15:13:11 its only got that spelling after you open the textbox Oct 20 15:13:17 until then, the spelling is undetermined Oct 20 15:13:27 :)) Oct 20 15:13:39 sounds like a bad version of pandora's box Oct 20 15:13:43 lcuk, we opened the box. You spelled it wrong. Oct 20 15:13:44 "let's see if you are a virgin" Oct 20 15:13:45 I currently wear my “schrœdinger's cat is dead” shirt Oct 20 15:13:54 not in my universe Oct 20 15:14:05 seriously. Still need a good explanation for the lardman paradox. Oct 20 15:14:18 javispedro: what is the paradox? Oct 20 15:14:19 javispedro, sssh. Oct 20 15:14:23 javispedro, don't anger him. Oct 20 15:14:38 until you open the link, you do not know if lardman exists or not Oct 20 15:14:52 crashanddie: he's _always_ (or nearly always) on the "random members" section in m.o frontpage Oct 20 15:14:56 javispedro: He'll ban you... He's the maemo.org admin, and a Talk Super Moderator... Oct 20 15:14:57 he is omnipresent, that's your problem Oct 20 15:15:19 its just random luck Oct 20 15:15:27 javispedro: afaict I'm always there and have been for something like 6 months Oct 20 15:15:33 no you arent Oct 20 15:15:34 lcuk: random luck for 6 months? Oct 20 15:15:38 thus the paradox. Oct 20 15:15:39 you are just there when you look Oct 20 15:15:48 if only my luck would move to lottery numbers... ;) Oct 20 15:16:01 there MUST be a logical and scientific explanation. Oct 20 15:16:10 like, what's "lardman"'s md5 hash? Oct 20 15:16:15 I dunno. Oct 20 15:16:22 X-Fade takes a monthly sum from lardman's account Oct 20 15:16:29 lol Oct 20 15:16:41 e0bb4c448b67a77c6e7408bd4b601c17 Oct 20 15:16:49 I'm inclined to blame X-Fade. Oct 20 15:16:54 Clearly there are kickbacks involved. Oct 20 15:17:00 lardman, when you do the lottery, your picture comes up every time, its just you cant enter "lardman" as a number Oct 20 15:17:04 probably payback for my missing karma Oct 20 15:17:05 [16:15] he is omnipresent, that's your problem <-- lardman talks about himself in third person Oct 20 15:17:08 lcuk: lol Oct 20 15:17:22 Everybody who complains instantly gets karma: -1 ;) Oct 20 15:17:28 I like that Oct 20 15:17:38 X-Fade: your honour, I'd like to file a complaint Oct 20 15:17:57 and yet another anti-karma tool :) Oct 20 15:18:02 X-Fade, as soon as my Talk karma comes back I'll have it to spare! Oct 20 15:18:07 well, I just refreshed m.o and now VDVsx was there for second time in a row. Time for another X-Files ep? *cue X-Files tune* Oct 20 15:18:09 Just you wait! Oct 20 15:18:48 argh, now it's cached for the day I guess. Oct 20 15:18:48 GAN900: It's never gonna come back. Muhahahahaha Oct 20 15:18:53 * absolute builds a shrine Oct 20 15:19:22 common point between all those on random members: nicknames all begin with a consonant Oct 20 15:19:26 i wonder what it is called if someone talks about themselves talking about themselves in third person, in third person Oct 20 15:19:47 metametadescription? Oct 20 15:20:05 pupnik: schyzostutter Oct 20 15:20:12 3rd^2 person, 9th person Oct 20 15:20:12 pupnik: schyschyzozophrenia Oct 20 15:20:23 lol Oct 20 15:20:23 javispedro, I've some privileges now ;) Oct 20 15:20:25 :) Oct 20 15:20:50 VDVsx: hehe Oct 20 15:20:55 GAN900: http://maemo.org/profile/view/generalantilles/ Oct 20 15:21:01 ^^^ do check that out ;) Oct 20 15:21:14 * javispedro films GAN's face Oct 20 15:21:15 javis... Oct 20 15:21:39 For the record... these single solar cell battery charger pack things... don't waste your time... this is the biggest piece of junk i've bought for $25 in some time... it needs BRIGHT, direct light... yesterday was the first time i saw the led light come on when it was under the sun and it didn't even get a full charge... its overcast today and its not charging at all :( Oct 20 15:21:47 One more question: an application for qt4 for maemo (x11) can be ported to qt-embedded ? Oct 20 15:21:48 * qwerty12_N810 hopes he does not run into javispedro in a bush near him Oct 20 15:21:52 X-Fade: has TMO been scrubbed? Oct 20 15:21:56 absolute: thanks Oct 20 15:22:04 btw X-Fade , do you know who is the responsible for this page/email: http://maemo.org/news/jobs/ ? Oct 20 15:22:07 X-Fade: or is now part of discussion? Oct 20 15:22:08 lardman: Nah, it was probably down. Oct 20 15:22:12 impressive bug reporting GAN900 Oct 20 15:22:12 ah ok Oct 20 15:22:28 VDVsx: Me of course Oct 20 15:22:35 javis.. check the no thanks thread. i had to do it. Oct 20 15:22:40 I might buy a more expensive one meant for less direct light to test it out, but cheapie is no-go Oct 20 15:23:02 absolute: How big is that thing? Area, I mean. Oct 20 15:23:13 tiny, umm Oct 20 15:23:14 I guess there is not yet project like this for Maemo yet? "Canonical developers aim to make Android apps run on Ubuntu" http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/canonical-developers-aim-to-make-android-apps-run-on-ubuntu.ars Oct 20 15:23:21 zerojay: :D lol Oct 20 15:23:37 hehehe Oct 20 15:23:39 also I guess it will eventually happend -> Maemo is superset Oct 20 15:23:40 aloril: old - they haven't released anything yet Oct 20 15:23:47 absolute: Anthing under 6W, don't bother. Oct 20 15:23:47 * absolute looks for a ruler to no avail... but its about 2" x 4" or so? Oct 20 15:23:51 about half inch thick Oct 20 15:23:55 single cell Oct 20 15:23:59 fremantle devs: scratchbox 1 or 2? Oct 20 15:24:02 err, single panel Oct 20 15:24:06 cosmo: 1. faster. Oct 20 15:24:33 X-Fade, ahahaha Oct 20 15:24:53 javispedro: really, is there real speed advantage? Oct 20 15:24:54 the closest thing i have to measure is the battery from my e62... its about the size of that but an inch and a half longer Oct 20 15:25:05 bp-5l battery Oct 20 15:25:07 cosmo: currently, definitely. sb2 was improving though. Oct 20 15:25:19 sb2 would be much nicer, but not sure if it will really work Oct 20 15:25:21 (or so they say) Oct 20 15:25:21 it seems possible looking at the declaration: "Deploy your Qt for Maemo applications to Symbian, Windows Mobile and embedded Linux" . But I imagine that maemo5 run only with some dependencies, included x11. Oct 20 15:25:30 cosmo: both work, debian lenny amd64 here. Oct 20 15:25:53 Qt for Maemo application can run on embedded linux, that it means qt-embedded Oct 20 15:26:12 is the nokia battery naming scheme explained somewhere? Oct 20 15:26:39 I wish I could buy a BL-10C in europe Oct 20 15:26:40 <_julian> hi Oct 20 15:26:45 recalcati, are you a qt developer currently? Oct 20 15:26:46 <_julian> anyone here familiar with lightmediascanner? Oct 20 15:26:48 I'd duct-tape it to my 6230 Oct 20 15:26:50 absolute: That area shounds way too small to provide any useful wattage. If you could get one 12"x12" or thereabouts, then maybe. Oct 20 15:27:07 GeneralAntilles: Should look a lot better now. Oct 20 15:27:21 s/shounds/sounds/ Oct 20 15:27:21 tor2 meant: absolute: That area sounds way too small to provide any useful wattage. If you could get one 12"x12" or thereabouts, then maybe. Oct 20 15:27:27 tor2: there's like a 1400mAh battery inside this thing... that battery charges in the light over so many hours Oct 20 15:27:39 and then you charge off of the battery Oct 20 15:27:43 not directly from the panel Oct 20 15:27:46 lcuk: no, my normal work is bsp board support. And also I have to understand maemo opportunities for my company. We use qt from 3.3.4 version anyway Oct 20 15:27:52 Ok so you really charge from that 1400 mAh battery then. Oct 20 15:28:05 Still, the area is small. Oct 20 15:28:06 yes Oct 20 15:28:12 absolute, all solar panels need direct sunlight. Even if it sits in direct sunlight but is misoriented it will give lots less power :) Oct 20 15:28:19 recalcati, well the idea is to simply use qt latest 4.6 or whatever on the device Oct 20 15:28:20 overcast is like factor of 10 difference in power output or something... Oct 20 15:28:21 * tor2 glares at the infobot Oct 20 15:28:34 These massive panels on a roof only do about 70W or so. Oct 20 15:28:40 yes Oct 20 15:28:41 depending on location Oct 20 15:28:53 X-Fade, I'm keeping a screenshot of that around to warn people off from crossing you in the future. :D Oct 20 15:28:54 Don't expect any useful output out of these little ones. Oct 20 15:29:02 This isn't your casio calculator ;) Oct 20 15:29:07 the fact remains, after having it sitting in my window for some time, it doesn't seem to even charge regularly... there are ones with multiple cells though Oct 20 15:29:36 Haha, Jaffa, you suuuck! :P Oct 20 15:29:38 GeneralAntilles: now hope no one at Nokia DPP wasn't watching Karma page and left you without device ;) Oct 20 15:29:49 yes, but, looking at documentation, it seems that qt4.latest is ported to maemo (qwerty input and other mobile optimizations) , but it is x11, and qt-embeeded is fb based Oct 20 15:30:00 ShadowJK: Some panels can't take direct sunlight though. There are solar cells on my voltmeter, and the user manual says never to put it in direct sunlight. The meter needs so little juice though that just putting it in a lit room is sufficient for hours. Oct 20 15:30:17 recalcati, yes, you are best to play in x11 - its where the rest of the apps live Oct 20 15:30:53 oh, nokia is going to actually market the n900? Oct 20 15:31:07 tor2, well the obviously looked at power drain and the amount of light present indoors, and picked a panel big enough, which happened to fit the device thanks to the low power draw :) Oct 20 15:31:18 javispedro: looks like it Oct 20 15:31:28 Yup, the right equipment for the right job Oct 20 15:31:31 javispedro, why wouldnt they? its spectacular Oct 20 15:31:44 javispedro, question is whether it'll be helpful or not Oct 20 15:31:49 lcuk: yes, but my other products use qt4.5 embedded Oct 20 15:31:53 javispedro: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33166 , www.maemoproject.com .. etc Oct 20 15:32:05 I though they wouldn't like "the populate" buying step4 of 5. Oct 20 15:32:24 The movie we saw at the summit of which that project website is a small part, was impressive. Oct 20 15:32:25 recalcati, is there really a big difference? go speak on #qt about it Oct 20 15:32:38 recalcati: qt-embedded is end of line now, they're just using (normal) qt in maemo from now on Oct 20 15:32:46 so it's qt 4.6 on X11 Oct 20 15:32:48 if they could advertise N97, they can advertise n900. Oct 20 15:32:48 :P Oct 20 15:32:51 not qt-embedded or framebuffer Oct 20 15:33:01 Stskeeps: wonder of wonders, N97 is still more expensive than N900 here. Oct 20 15:33:15 every time I drive past a large N97 billboard it reminds me of the n900 Oct 20 15:33:21 they look pretty similar from a distance Oct 20 15:33:24 mgedmin: was thinking exactly the same. Oct 20 15:33:26 Stskeeps, "advertise" as in 1 hour talk about facebooks? ;-) Oct 20 15:33:38 mgedmin: the hint is in the name: "Nokia N-Series" Oct 20 15:33:40 ShadowJK: facebook twitter flickr Oct 20 15:33:40 :P Oct 20 15:33:48 Is there a speaking IRC client? Oct 20 15:33:52 what hint? Oct 20 15:34:05 [16:34] they look pretty similar from a distance Oct 20 15:34:16 i don't know of one, i'm sure you could do a plugin to send it to text2speech Oct 20 15:34:22 well, so? N800 is also "Nokia N-Series", but it doesn't look anywhere close Oct 20 15:34:27 a cpu speed graph would be fun to see Oct 20 15:34:29 but then everyone would talk in the same voice Oct 20 15:34:31 that would suck Oct 20 15:34:40 you'd have tow ork that out somehow Oct 20 15:34:45 hash nicknames to random voices Oct 20 15:34:52 hi Oct 20 15:34:53 sort of like nick colorization works Oct 20 15:35:00 Robot101: really??? no more qt on frame buffer? Oct 20 15:35:05 Just record some folks at the next summit Oct 20 15:35:09 nie idea mgedmin Oct 20 15:35:09 recalcati: what do you mean by "no more"? Oct 20 15:35:15 wait. what. Oct 20 15:35:17 http://www.wimp.com/superconductingtrain/ Oct 20 15:35:20 watch till end Oct 20 15:35:21 maemo always relied on x11 Oct 20 15:35:26 mgedmin: Who gets Jessica Rabbit? Oct 20 15:35:59 mgedmin: I don't know whether qt on framebuffer is supported, but qt-embedded (ie, qtopia, the whole phone platform based around qt) isn't developed any further Oct 20 15:36:04 er, recalcati Oct 20 15:36:08 recalcati, have you done qt framebuffer stuff in maemo before? Oct 20 15:36:18 My knowledge is qt-x11 != qt-embedded Oct 20 15:36:26 that page gives me 'flash wanted', but there's flash according to any other site. Oct 20 15:36:26 the naming is confusing. qt itself can draw with x11, framebuffer, etc etc Oct 20 15:36:30 yes, but the name has chnged many times Oct 20 15:36:39 flash required actually Oct 20 15:36:40 qt-embedded is a bunch of stuff on top of qt, used to be called qtopia, which is for a phone kinda thing Oct 20 15:36:45 qt-embedded is end of line Oct 20 15:37:02 I don't know whether this makes any difference to whether qt itself will continue to support framebuffer Oct 20 15:37:10 but from the perspective of maemo its irrelevant - maemo uses x11 Oct 20 15:37:14 qt/e died long time ago Oct 20 15:37:23 Stskeeps: yeah, what I'm thinking its not Android vs Maemo, but more Android apps also mean eventually more software for Maemo too; personally I like easy 'porting' of Linux apps to Maemo Oct 20 15:37:26 so qt on maemo will also use x11, and there will be no qt-embedded Oct 20 15:37:27 qt on portables better be faster than qt on desktop Oct 20 15:37:38 It's flux pinning lcuk - the magnetism sort of gets locked in the superconductor - though not really Oct 20 15:37:40 yes, I knew qt-embedded, the old one, is obsolete. but qt 4.5 directly write on fb, anyway Oct 20 15:37:40 aloril: maemo can fit android apps, android can't fit maemo apps :) Oct 20 15:37:46 Robot101: you can use qt/e even on x11 - via qvfb which makes it even slower Oct 20 15:37:52 recalcati: what are you trying to ask exactly? Oct 20 15:38:00 Stskeeps: right, so Maemo is superset Oct 20 15:38:15 yeah SpeedEvil its like evil cats with buttered toast taped to their back Oct 20 15:38:27 Robot101: I have some 200Mhz,300Mhz devices, and I'd like to go on w/o x11 Oct 20 15:38:43 but, maybe, x11 can be handled as well Oct 20 15:39:09 Da Vinci family Oct 20 15:39:22 hm, developing on a n900 and deploying on custom 200 mhz devices -- probably not a good plan Oct 20 15:39:49 I've got my SDK installed, but i've still got no good ideas rattling around this skull for apps i want... each time i think of the things i use daily, i keep remembering most of them are already ported to mamemo anyways... Oct 20 15:40:01 lcuk: cool. Oct 20 15:40:02 worse than developing on a 3ghz PC and deploying on N810 mgedmin ? Oct 20 15:40:06 I've read blog posts claiming that gtk or qt over x11 is faster than gtk or qt over the framebuffer, contrary to popular myths Oct 20 15:40:19 lcuk: The more commercially interesting fact is that you can do it with only permenant magnets and copper, and get a totally passive track IMO. Oct 20 15:40:22 mgedmin: no, instead, it is a good plan. Developing on pc, deploying on N900 the packages, but also integrating in omap and Da Vinci industrial devices. Oct 20 15:40:40 ah, okay, industrial stuff Oct 20 15:40:51 then you won't stuff it full of fancy effects that need a 600 mhz cpu to run Oct 20 15:40:56 lcuk: http://www.askmar.com/Inductrack/inductrack.html Oct 20 15:41:04 mgedmin: anyway, I'm trying to understand and, I hope, the N900 will give me some help. Oct 20 15:41:44 * javispedro abuses maglev in openttd Oct 20 15:41:57 omap is 600Mhz armv7 , but Da Vinci 300Mhz armv5, but I'll do different things Oct 20 15:42:13 Hello ! Oct 20 15:42:17 hi Oct 20 15:42:22 hi Khertan_N900 \o/ Oct 20 15:42:29 heya lcuk Oct 20 15:42:30 hey all Oct 20 15:42:34 hi Wooly Oct 20 15:42:55 hi Wooly Oct 20 15:43:08 you enjoying yourself Khertan_ Oct 20 15:43:16 a question, someone know if "edit" icon come from the theme Oct 20 15:43:17 does anyone know why this Python code would give a GTK_IS_TEXT_LAYOUT assertion error? http://pastie.org/662144 Oct 20 15:43:18 lcuk: :) Oct 20 15:43:28 got your sdk working on device now? Oct 20 15:43:32 the assertion error occurs on line 5 Oct 20 15:43:46 lcuk: PyGTKEditor isn't finish Oct 20 15:43:58 lcuk: but it s in progress Oct 20 15:43:59 but its coming - i had it installed a while back Oct 20 15:44:04 yeah i know :) Oct 20 15:44:15 i ve finnaly put auto rotation support :) Oct 20 15:44:36 and ... nope ... without doing a fork of gtksourceview Oct 20 15:44:44 just tweaking a bit the signal Oct 20 15:44:59 * lardman heads for home Oct 20 15:45:07 i ve take a look in the hildon.textview source code in gitorius :) Oct 20 15:45:17 Wooly: i ll look Oct 20 15:45:27 Khertan_: thanks :) I'm sure it's something stupid Oct 20 15:46:29 Wooly: no, but in gtimelog I did it differently for some reason: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mgedmin/gtimelog/trunk/annotate/head:/src/gtimelog/gtimelog.py#L1104 Oct 20 15:46:47 i'm going to have to brush up on my c a bit too, my job entails a lot of java... so at this point, GTK is the best route for something that will run both on the mobile as well as my regular desktop environment? I'm kinda confused though about the delineation between hildon stuff and GTK Oct 20 15:47:08 hildon is built on top of gtk Oct 20 15:47:15 it seems like they both are involved with windowing and such Oct 20 15:47:17 ahh Oct 20 15:47:18 hildon api functions have names with hildon in the name Oct 20 15:47:21 hildon is a set of gtk classes and components Oct 20 15:47:24 it adds custom widgets on top of base gtk widgets Oct 20 15:47:35 oh ok, nice Oct 20 15:47:36 absolute: You just replace some key calls with some others (hildon-specific), and includes a couple of extra header files Oct 20 15:47:40 mged thanks, I'll take a look Oct 20 15:47:54 mgedmin: thanks :D Oct 20 15:47:58 silly tab complete Oct 20 15:48:12 I wonder why I didn't use scroll_to_iter Oct 20 15:48:23 scroll_to_iter Oct 20 15:48:35 either I didn't know about it (unlikely), or it was added in a newer gtk version (possible) or I had problems for it (possible) Oct 20 15:48:39 is a method of gtk.TextView Oct 20 15:48:44 not gtk.TextBuffer Oct 20 15:49:01 self.debug is a gtk.TextBuffer Oct 20 15:49:04 yes? Oct 20 15:49:10 so is scroll_to_mark, iirc Oct 20 15:49:21 sorry i read self.debug_buffer instead of self.debug Oct 20 15:49:28 self.debug_buffer = self.debug.get_buffer() Oct 20 15:49:35 ah that's cool (Y) Oct 20 15:49:51 s/for/with/ Oct 20 15:49:52 So with hildon now being a part of gnome, does that mean that those apps will just work natively in gnome on my desktop? Oct 20 15:50:24 absolute: if you're asking whether you can write one piece of code and have it look native in maemo 5 and in desktop linux, then: no Oct 20 15:50:37 Wooly: are you sure that your buffer is connected to the textview ? Oct 20 15:51:00 ok, so basically, you'd build the GTK app, and then wrap it (or modify it) with some hildon specific stuff and rebuild for the portable Oct 20 15:51:14 Khertan_: http://pastie.org/662155 Oct 20 15:51:15 fair enough Oct 20 15:51:24 not just modify, practically redesign the ui Oct 20 15:51:34 different screen size, different dpi, different paradigms Oct 20 15:51:40 mgedmin: that depends on whether your desktop has a really small screen ;) Oct 20 15:51:42 e.g. desktop is keyboard-navigable, maemo 5 isn't Oct 20 15:51:43 couldn't be more simple Oct 20 15:51:45 strange Oct 20 15:51:46 ahh ok Oct 20 15:51:55 qwerty12_N810: Screenshot! Oct 20 15:51:56 mgedmin: and you cant afford a keyboard :D Oct 20 15:51:58 mgedmin, absolute was saying about designing an app using gtk Oct 20 15:51:59 there were good talks about this topic at the summit Oct 20 15:52:03 the slides are in the wiki Oct 20 15:52:03 That been said, it's still possible to design&test on the desktop. You just start out with 800x480 in mind. Oct 20 15:52:04 that can imply making it as you suggest Oct 20 15:52:46 X-Fade: Crap, I didn't know it appears in the downloads listing... Sure thing :) Oct 20 15:52:48 yes tor2 Oct 20 15:53:00 and different dpi thinking Oct 20 15:53:01 oh yeah... I guess as long as some sort of MVC route is followed, it just means rewriting the view classes Oct 20 15:53:07 yep Oct 20 15:53:11 so biiiig fonts and biiiig buttons Oct 20 15:53:11 qwerty12_N810: Yeah, it gets imported automatically now. Oct 20 15:53:23 and not thinking "oooh an 8pt font will look good for my stuff Oct 20 15:53:26 With my little stuff I start on the desktop and then at some point I move over to the real thing. Oct 20 15:53:30 think "mmm maybe 24pt will do" Oct 20 15:54:21 * lcuk designs in visual basic :$ Oct 20 15:54:28 Wooly: i didn't see anything wrong Oct 20 15:54:35 hehe Oct 20 15:54:37 If you've got a 21" monitor, just back off to 6 times your normal phone viewing distance, and you're fine. Oct 20 15:54:43 lol SpeedEvil Oct 20 15:54:44 vb-- Oct 20 15:54:45 good idea Oct 20 15:54:51 vb++ actually Oct 20 15:54:54 * tor2 eyes the very long keyboard cable on the shelf Oct 20 15:54:56 karma vb? Oct 20 15:54:58 ~karma vb Oct 20 15:54:58 vb has neutral karma Oct 20 15:54:59 Khertan_: this thing is annoying me, as it's crashing my app :( Oct 20 15:55:14 absolute, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok the presentation part was laid out in vb Oct 20 15:55:17 dynamically loaded Oct 20 15:55:31 Wooly: i can understand ... i pass 4 days trying to understand how to make working a gtksourceview in a pannablearea Oct 20 15:56:06 Wooly: did you have the complete code somewhere ... i ll try to launch it on my nit and try to see what s wrong Oct 20 15:56:21 Khertan_, why do you need a pannable for a source editor? Oct 20 15:56:43 googling for GTK_IS_TEXT_LAYOUT hints that it could be a bug Oct 20 15:56:49 lcuk: because using small scroll bar is a real pain on maemo5 Oct 20 15:56:50 in gtk/pygtk Oct 20 15:56:51 Khertan_: you should've used Qt Oct 20 15:56:53 <_berto_> where does the n900 media player take cover images from ? Oct 20 15:56:53 Khertan_: o/ Oct 20 15:57:00 lcuk: panning rules Oct 20 15:57:08 everything should be pannable Oct 20 15:57:09 Khertan_: I dont think I can disclose the entire source, as it's a big secret Oct 20 15:57:22 crashanddie: binding not available yet on fremantle ... no pyside, no pyqt Oct 20 15:57:23 Khertan_: the company that I work for wouldn't be happy :( Oct 20 15:57:33 _berto_: The MediaArt spec. There's also a Google Images plugin pvanhoof wrote, but I need to submit a patch for that. Oct 20 15:57:37 huh, that whole presentation is just a vb app? wow... yeah, my least favorite coding task is setting up windowing stuff, but there are typically wysiwyg tools to do that stuff Oct 20 15:57:37 mgedmin, pannable only works with pannable hardware and its non obvious to a user Oct 20 15:57:41 Wooly: they haven't yet seen the light of open source? Oct 20 15:57:42 Wooly: ha ... or make just a simple example Oct 20 15:57:58 no open source yet :D Oct 20 15:58:02 lcuk: consistent ui paradigms == goodness Oct 20 15:58:03 Note that we are reviewing for harmattan what to do with the album-art provider DBus API Oct 20 15:58:05 Just FYI Oct 20 15:58:06 most fremantle apps have panning Oct 20 15:58:08 I'll make one later :D Oct 20 15:58:13 That this is uncertain atm Oct 20 15:58:14 home time now though :P Oct 20 15:58:21 thanks for the input guys! Oct 20 15:58:23 album-art storage spec should remain in harmattan Oct 20 15:58:26 at leas afaik Oct 20 15:58:33 mgedmin, iphone twitch isnt - trying to pan and accidentally clicking content underneath because it wasnt registered correctly == badness Oct 20 15:58:34 pvanhoof: thanks for the info Oct 20 15:58:36 np Oct 20 15:58:41 and without trying it ... i think that it s not useable Oct 20 15:59:08 * mgedmin likes this version of modest a lot Oct 20 15:59:08 <_berto_> Jaffa: I ask because I copied a few albums to the n900 and I can see cover images for some of them Oct 20 15:59:08 but when i see xterm Oct 20 15:59:08 it s really good Oct 20 15:59:08 pvanhoof: I'll send you the Google Images JSON patch. Not been able to do as much as I wanted (e.g. XB-Maemo-Icon-26 and XB-Maemo-Display-Name in debian/control) Oct 20 15:59:08 <_berto_> but none of the mp3 have albums in their tags (that I know) Oct 20 15:59:19 Wooly: Try to make a small example that reproduces the problem anyway, it's always a good approach to find problems -- it can sometimes show that the problem is entirely different, or an obvious cause pops up. Oct 20 15:59:22 lcuk: clicking isn't harmful when you're editing source code, so this argument doesn't apply Oct 20 15:59:28 _berto_: There are heuristics well outlined in a wiki page linked to from a blog post by konttori or pvanhoof Oct 20 15:59:30 it does elsewhere Oct 20 15:59:40 and if you are tryign to select code and it pans instead Oct 20 15:59:42 <_berto_> Jaffa: ah thanks Oct 20 15:59:42 is frustrating Oct 20 15:59:56 lardman|gone: i got octave compiled! used libf2c and fort 77 Oct 20 16:00:04 lcuk: it's even more frustrating when you're trying to pan and it starts selecting Oct 20 16:00:11 I speak from personal experience Oct 20 16:00:11 yes! Oct 20 16:00:13 agreed Oct 20 16:00:14 lardman|gone: took a while to get the compile options though Oct 20 16:00:15 Stskeeps: oh, Claes is back :) Oct 20 16:00:19 cool Oct 20 16:00:21 [17:58] * mgedmin likes this version of modest a lot <<< i ve still problem with gmail Oct 20 16:00:25 yeah, i saw he was working on intro videos Oct 20 16:00:34 lcuk: idea: fingerprint recognition Oct 20 16:00:38 hah Oct 20 16:00:42 thought about that Oct 20 16:00:44 use your left hand's fingers for panning, right hand for selection Oct 20 16:00:48 through the webcam or something? Oct 20 16:00:50 cant - i once wanted to do pseudo fingerprint scanner Oct 20 16:01:07 Just use proximity sensor as modifier. Oct 20 16:01:13 lol Oct 20 16:01:15 would need *very* sensitive multitouch hardware ;) Oct 20 16:01:22 x-fade's idea is cool Oct 20 16:01:32 Thumb on proximitoy sensor-> select ;) Oct 20 16:01:43 why not do same thing browser did? Oct 20 16:01:59 seeing as I now unexpectedly have 26 megs free in root maybe I should apt-get install ioquake3 Oct 20 16:02:10 hey guys, if anyone is looking to get octave working on maemo 5 i started a page on the wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/How_to_Install_Octave . ATM it is a rough outline. It has all the information you need. I hope to add links to the files tomorrow or soemthing Oct 20 16:02:11 javispedro: agreed --- or xterm Oct 20 16:02:11 i dont see why for a code editor/something expecting complete mixed mode you cant just use a regular joe scrollbar Oct 20 16:02:26 because regular joe scrollbars *suck* Oct 20 16:02:37 hard to use even with a stylus Oct 20 16:02:38 i'd prefer both apps to use browser's way. platform genericity and all that. Oct 20 16:02:59 hm, maybe a gesture Oct 20 16:03:02 Stskeeps: it's cool to see how many designers came to maemo after n900 promos :) Oct 20 16:03:08 drag from the right to get a wide scrollbar Oct 20 16:03:23 lcuk: hard to use with finger and stylus Oct 20 16:03:30 that same sensitive area could just be a little button you know Oct 20 16:03:52 i found that it s hard to use stylus on n900 with pygtkeditor scroll bar Oct 20 16:04:02 and using larger scrollbar take too many place Oct 20 16:04:39 mgedmin: bye bye, my pc is installing scratchbox and I go home. thx of all Oct 20 16:04:51 good luck Oct 20 16:05:02 lcuk: when you will try the new pygtkeditor (v3.0.0) you will like it ! Oct 20 16:05:13 i like it anyway :D Oct 20 16:07:40 Jaffa, awesome, if you want access to the gitorious repo for the google-images-provider project, just ask mvo, frade, or .. dno who's in charge of maemo.gitorous.orgt Oct 20 16:07:49 pvanhoof: ta Oct 20 16:21:44 * lardman ponders osso_abook_filter_model_set_visible_func() Oct 20 16:24:12 oooh Oct 20 16:24:17 nokia.co.uk - email Oct 20 16:24:25 'Once the product is available, we will ship your order per your instructions. If you are paying by credit or debit card, you will not be charged until the item is shipped or confirmed delivered to you. Oct 20 16:24:25 We will send you another email when the item ships. ' Oct 20 16:24:37 And it got charged immediately I made the order. Oct 20 16:24:49 Maybe I confused it by adding a battery Oct 20 16:24:58 what's the common paper size in Europe? A1? Oct 20 16:25:02 a4 Oct 20 16:25:04 A4 Oct 20 16:25:07 A4. Oct 20 16:25:11 tjamls/ Oct 20 16:25:15 Each size doubles over the last, so A1 is quite large indeed Oct 20 16:25:19 Or, Thanks, with my right hand over 1 letter. :) Oct 20 16:25:21 large enough to hide behind. Oct 20 16:25:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_size_illustration2_with_letter_and_legal.svg Oct 20 16:25:30 * Solarion misses Europe Oct 20 16:26:55 * suihkulokki hates all the american-oriented software that insist printing in letter size Oct 20 16:26:57 lardman: Ah, filter models are so much fun Oct 20 16:27:23 no docs for that fn afaict Oct 20 16:27:37 SpeedEvil: when i did the nokiausa order, they had held the funds for the entire order, but had not actually charged it... on my online banking, the full funds were still in my account, but the available funds were the full minus the order amount Oct 20 16:27:51 absolute: this is a debit card Oct 20 16:27:54 yeah Oct 20 16:28:01 absolute: so it comes straight out of my bank account Oct 20 16:28:29 lardman: You can see the code for that function though, right? Oct 20 16:29:12 I don;t think the library source is available, so no Oct 20 16:29:31 i understand, but if its charged like a credit card, it works the same way... try going to the gas station sometime and paying at the pump... Oct 20 16:29:32 Ah Oct 20 16:29:42 you'll see sometimes they hold funds Oct 20 16:30:20 my nokiausa order was used with a debit too, charged as a visa Oct 20 16:30:20 absolute: It's not - there is no facility to do that with debit cards as I understand it. Oct 20 16:30:21 but i switched that over to amazon already Oct 20 16:30:34 absolute: maybe it's different in the US - debit != credit card - they somewhat go through different systems. Oct 20 16:30:37 SpeedEvil: your debit card can be used as debit with a pin number, or as a credit Oct 20 16:30:39 yeah Oct 20 16:30:44 here it must be different Oct 20 16:30:48 my debit card has a visa logo Oct 20 16:30:58 you can't get credit on that card. Oct 20 16:31:04 you can't get credit Oct 20 16:31:08 true Oct 20 16:31:14 but my bank balance acts as my credit limit Oct 20 16:31:25 lardman: It looks like it does the same thing as this http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/gtk/GtkTreeModelFilter.html#gtk-tree-model-filter-set-visible-func Oct 20 16:31:45 lardman: Given a user function that returns true or false based on whether you want to see a row or not Oct 20 16:32:01 i'm just saying, it may look like it was charged, but not actually have been charged... and that's exactly how my order through them showed up Oct 20 16:32:26 i wouldn't count on it as a sign that they're shipping it right away is all Oct 20 16:32:45 ah, good call, am far too tired Oct 20 16:33:39 lardman: I have done some of the tree model stuff in Gtk, if you need a hand with anything Oct 20 16:34:01 VDVsx: I won't be able for the extras-testing marathon Oct 20 16:34:11 thanks, will give you a shout :) Oct 20 16:34:26 VDVsx: I'm on a business trip for a couple of weeks in the US, and other than being extremely jet-lagged, I'll also be extremely drunk Oct 20 16:34:38 crashanddie, heheh Oct 20 16:34:48 VDVsx: but I love the idea, and regret I won't be part of it Oct 20 16:35:31 lardman: I assume you want to use that function to filter out people who are not online? Oct 20 16:35:36 bye Oct 20 16:35:49 hrw|gone: bye Oct 20 16:36:02 fiferboy: yeah, I just want to see those who are online, then draw them on a map Oct 20 16:36:14 good night Oct 20 16:36:58 The filter function should work. IIRC it will act dynamically when the tree model is changed (assuming the correct signals are sent out) Oct 20 16:37:18 crashanddie, I'm also visiting the US, but this week Oct 20 16:37:28 hmm, I wonder if it will actually return anything Tree related though Oct 20 16:37:31 more likely ABook related Oct 20 16:37:42 VDVsx: watch out, coming back to the old continent is horrible for jet-alg Oct 20 16:37:48 s/alg/lag/ Oct 20 16:37:48 crashanddie meant: VDVsx: watch out, coming back to the old continent is horrible for jet-lag Oct 20 16:38:08 hi everyone - quick newbie question: where can I find the source for the on-screen keyboard that is used in the N900? Oct 20 16:38:30 VDVsx: at the 2 in the afternoon "I don't want to have lunch, I want to sleep". At 4 in the morning "woohoo, wanna go for a game of tennis?" Oct 20 16:38:35 crashanddie, first time there, so I really don't know :) Oct 20 16:39:25 there's one thing though, waking up early when in the US is very easy Oct 20 16:39:25 VDVsx, where you going? Oct 20 16:39:38 (because 8AM is basically lunch time for us) Oct 20 16:39:52 GeneralAntilles, CA Oct 20 16:40:13 VDVsx, what part? Oct 20 16:40:30 don't tell me Oct 20 16:40:32 santa clara :P Oct 20 16:40:51 VDVsx: fremont? Oct 20 16:40:54 GAN900, san francisco/mountain view Oct 20 16:40:57 mountain view? Oct 20 16:40:59 heh Oct 20 16:41:05 Ah, that'll be nice. Oct 20 16:41:14 I love how everyone says "SF", but really, they're an hour drive away : Oct 20 16:41:15 :P Oct 20 16:41:27 bkonrath: probably can't Oct 20 16:41:35 same shit different pile Oct 20 16:41:37 VDVsx: GSoC reward? Oct 20 16:41:50 qwerty12_N810, yup, paid by google ;) Oct 20 16:41:55 luke-jr: really!? why not? Oct 20 16:41:57 I'd like to use some multithreading in my app, but as soon as I add the gdk_threads_init() call, the thing hangs when started in the SDK from the application launcher. Running from the console with run-standalone.sh still works. Has anybody seen such a behaviour? Modest and the contacts app don't start either. Oct 20 16:42:03 VDVsx: Hehe, nice Oct 20 16:42:09 Remember, SF is always about 50°F and everything around it will be hotter. Oct 20 16:42:15 So bring layers. ;) Oct 20 16:42:17 bkonrath: because Maemo is closed Oct 20 16:42:37 pH5: don't test in sb? ;) Oct 20 16:42:55 bkonrath: there are some very similar open source example ones Oct 20 16:42:59 bkonrath, the keyboard examples are around somewhere. Oct 20 16:43:02 in the sdk Oct 20 16:43:03 lardman: is this supposed not to work? Oct 20 16:43:16 dunno, works for me on-device, I never test in the SDL Oct 20 16:43:19 SDK Oct 20 16:43:25 well, x86 sdk should work Oct 20 16:43:30 GeneralAntilles: I want stricter thread closing rules on tmo as well Oct 20 16:43:34 armel... here be dragons. Oct 20 16:43:36 luke-jr, at least try to avoid spreading misinformation when you don't know. . . . Oct 20 16:43:48 crashanddie: like what? Oct 20 16:43:50 GeneralAntilles: basically, when there's 10 messages that aren't related to the original topic, split the topic and kill the old one Oct 20 16:43:50 GAN900: was I wrong? Oct 20 16:44:08 crashanddie, when it's 10 pages of back-and-forth between christexaport and one of the Jays it's time to lock. Oct 20 16:44:18 GAN900: I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention that being specifically a closed part Oct 20 16:44:57 I'm never sure when I should use the hand-of-lardman to close/kill/etc Oct 20 16:45:05 Stskeeps, GAN900: do you have a link or can tell me where I can search? Oct 20 16:45:14 I don;t want to be seen as a nasty demi-lardGod Oct 20 16:45:34 bkonrath: repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free Oct 20 16:45:56 in h Oct 20 16:46:15 if you want attention, wear a pacman hat outside. Oct 20 16:46:28 lardman, I'm going to start reporting threads I think need closing. Oct 20 16:46:32 i/ Oct 20 16:46:37 argh Oct 20 16:46:54 gotta run, talk later Oct 20 16:46:55 Ah, I remember Oct 20 16:47:09 GeneralAntilles: go for it Oct 20 16:47:10 It was that chat we had in the bar that sjgadsby was thinking about Oct 20 16:47:10 ive gone two blocks and was asked 5 times to take pics with people. Oct 20 16:47:12 zerojayN900, attention whore, too? :P Oct 20 16:47:17 lol Oct 20 16:47:34 not at all normally but i gotta get it home. Oct 20 16:47:35 * lardman will have to remember to check his gmail account for GAN's commands ;) Oct 20 16:47:54 hey californians, how is the weather there around new year? i'm coming there for two weeks. Oct 20 16:47:54 ...and then press delete ;P Oct 20 16:47:55 Dooooo myyyy biddiiiiing! Oct 20 16:48:42 i read that average temperature is about 10 degrees c, but is it hot during day? Oct 20 16:48:55 wazd, theres a lot of interest :) thats a good thing, get your whip out and organise them all (neatly of course with balanced space between) Oct 20 16:49:49 Stskeeps: thanks! does maemo have an svn or git repository? Oct 20 16:50:19 11:48 < Stskeeps> bkonrath: repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free Oct 20 16:50:29 cosmo, depends where you are. Oct 20 16:50:33 bkonrath: maemo.gitorious.org is getting populated Oct 20 16:51:07 GAN900: road trip around SF and LA area Oct 20 16:51:30 not planned more than that Oct 20 16:51:47 cosmo, SF is pretty much always 50-60°F Oct 20 16:51:54 and as finns we'd like some warm temperature Oct 20 16:51:57 and windy Oct 20 16:52:14 The rest should be more variable. Oct 20 16:52:22 ok, pretty cold Oct 20 16:52:33 Pretty much it's cold on the water and warmer inland. Oct 20 16:52:56 Inland is pretty dry so the temps vary a lot day to night. Oct 20 16:52:58 maybe we'll take a tour inland Oct 20 16:53:09 Highly recommended. Oct 20 16:53:34 I'd consider hitting up Yosemite if you have an extra day. Oct 20 16:53:41 Stskeeps: awesome! thanks for your help :-) Oct 20 16:54:47 only four hours drive.. not that bad Oct 20 16:55:15 any other recommendations? Oct 20 16:55:18 fucking bus is taking forever. Oct 20 16:55:43 public transport Oct 20 16:56:05 cosmo, make sure you drive along the coast heading south out of SF Oct 20 16:56:16 and being a fat guy in a huge pacman hat. Oct 20 16:56:18 US-101 is about as scenic as it gets. Oct 20 16:56:45 ok, we'll do Oct 20 16:56:57 Stop in Santa Cruz Oct 20 16:57:22 haha, scared the shit out of someonel Oct 20 16:58:16 Make sure you do Alcatraz in SF. Also check out Golden Gate Park. Oct 20 16:58:41 This place is really badass: http://www.exploratorium.edu/ Oct 20 17:00:14 is alcatraz that good? i've seen the rock already :-) Oct 20 17:00:46 cosmo, you've done the tour? Oct 20 17:01:01 The whole thing is pretty touristy, but it's fun all the same. Oct 20 17:01:17 the movie Oct 20 17:01:25 Yeah, do the tour. ;) Oct 20 17:01:29 ok Oct 20 17:01:41 It doesn't take that long and you'll want to see SF's waterfront anyway. Oct 20 17:02:08 i wish i had time to really checkout sf when i was there. Oct 20 17:02:22 oh, why can't I see the docs for TpConnectionPresenceType ? Oct 20 17:02:46 cosmo, the Maritime Museum is pretty good, too. http://www.maritime.org/index.htm Oct 20 17:02:58 Especially the Hyde Street Pier. Oct 20 17:03:53 cosmo, I'd also consider going into at least one SF mall. Oct 20 17:03:59 cosmo, well, depending on where you're from. ;) Oct 20 17:04:05 * lardman notes these down for his proposed visit to SF (when he gets round to booking it) Oct 20 17:04:38 GeneralAntilles: tampere, finland Oct 20 17:04:52 SF mall it is... Oct 20 17:04:52 The malls in SF are utterly excessive. Oct 20 17:05:04 we visited some very sorry mall in florida road trip last year, but it wasn't very interesting Oct 20 17:05:13 Most of the malls in Florida suck. ;) Oct 20 17:05:17 Which, might I ask? Oct 20 17:05:29 s/ the malls in // Oct 20 17:05:34 +s Oct 20 17:05:37 lol Oct 20 17:05:46 lol.. someone just asked me if i was "irl trolling" Oct 20 17:06:10 ah, TpConnectionPresenceType is from Telepathy :) Oct 20 17:06:14 zerojayN900, lol. Oct 20 17:06:18 can't remember which one.. i think it was somewhere on the west side of florida Oct 20 17:06:35 we just went to eat in pizzeria (lousy pizza) and walked around the mall Oct 20 17:06:43 Yeah, there's maybe one respectable mall on the west coast. Oct 20 17:06:49 International in Tampa. Oct 20 17:06:58 Nokia N900 is Pacman's official phone. Oct 20 17:06:59 qwerty12_N810: oi! sort it out and get a passport so you can rock up in Amsterdam before giving Florida abuse! ;) Oct 20 17:07:08 But it doesn't compare to SF with its live mannequins. ;) Oct 20 17:07:15 at least that's what im telling them Oct 20 17:07:17 lardman: You're not even from Florida! Oct 20 17:07:21 it was some random mall on road side, not even near any big city Oct 20 17:07:26 no, but I'm going next year Oct 20 17:07:30 "Oi!" yourself Oct 20 17:07:38 and it may well suck, who knows Oct 20 17:07:47 This is probably obvious, but don't even consider trying to take a car into the city in SF. ;) Oct 20 17:08:07 so the public transportation works? Oct 20 17:08:19 It does in most large US cities. Oct 20 17:08:37 California also has a reasonable train network for getting from city-to-city. Oct 20 17:08:42 lardman: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/telepathy-glib/telepathy-glib-enums.html#TpConnectionPresenceType Oct 20 17:08:46 hey lardman, you seen this cool push n900 project? http://wouwlabs.com/blogs/jeez/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/presentation_pov.pdf Oct 20 17:08:58 fiferboy: yeah, found it in the end, thanks :) Oct 20 17:09:05 lardman: Oops, didn't realize I wasn't scrolled down :| Oct 20 17:09:15 we're going to rent a car anyway (4 or 5 people coming) but we'll leave it outside the city Oct 20 17:09:35 hey, I just realized why the n900 is better than an iphone Oct 20 17:09:41 integrated stand Oct 20 17:09:50 thats all? Oct 20 17:09:51 cosmo, I'd recommend an Impala. Oct 20 17:09:54 you call THAT a stand? Oct 20 17:10:00 mgedmin900: It has, *gasp*, buttons other than a d-pad? Oct 20 17:10:04 wow, someone attached one to a bike wheel, pretty daring Oct 20 17:10:16 and definitely go with Hertz. Oct 20 17:10:22 fiferboy: np, thanks for the moral support :) Oct 20 17:10:36 lardman, i almost spat out my coffee when i saw they were planning it using liqbase Oct 20 17:10:49 mgedmin900: have you actually used the stand...? ;) Oct 20 17:10:50 it was buried in amongst a canola update Oct 20 17:11:15 oh you unbelievers Oct 20 17:11:23 give the stand a chance Oct 20 17:11:30 How are you using the stand? Oct 20 17:11:33 it's better than the 770's Oct 20 17:11:34 let it stand on its own merits Oct 20 17:11:37 Please confess Oct 20 17:11:40 unless there is a gentle breeze Oct 20 17:11:43 it's a pity only new cars are available for rent.. we'd prefer some old us car as gas is practically free there Oct 20 17:11:44 lcuk: can it? =( Oct 20 17:11:57 my device sits in its cradle anyway Oct 20 17:12:00 mgedmin900, the stand sucks. Oct 20 17:12:00 at the right angle Oct 20 17:12:09 and is usable at that angle Oct 20 17:12:17 It's more like having a really sad joke attached to the back of your device. Oct 20 17:12:26 nahh its useful Oct 20 17:12:29 The only way you can use this "stand" is by sticking a bodily appendage under it, in order to hold the tablet Oct 20 17:12:30 for playing movies Oct 20 17:12:43 So, it is not really a stand but a handle :) Oct 20 17:12:47 the stand sucks less than no stand.. at least you can put the phone on table and see what's on screen with it Oct 20 17:12:50 cosmo, if you ever do take the car into the city, never buy gas there. Oct 20 17:12:56 the tv out is useful for playing movies Oct 20 17:12:57 +1 cosmo Oct 20 17:13:02 the stand is for reading books Oct 20 17:13:02 It's usually at least %10-%20 more expensive. Oct 20 17:13:05 cosmo: don't tell them petrol is free, they won't believe you ;) Oct 20 17:13:05 tv out is nice indeed Oct 20 17:13:06 mgedmin900, only with a big tv nearby Oct 20 17:13:09 but thats hardly mobile Oct 20 17:13:28 Anyone tried Quake3 with a video output already? Oct 20 17:13:34 lcuk: it'd be nice if the FM transmitter could be overclocked to UHF :) Oct 20 17:13:36 ooh Oct 20 17:13:42 RST38h: there was a video of it Oct 20 17:13:42 I can't get the Q3 Linux installer .sh to work Oct 20 17:13:44 we'll pour some gas to the ground every time we refuel, just because it's so cheap :-) Oct 20 17:13:44 RST38h: There's a YouTube video Oct 20 17:13:45 mgedmin900: I guess the stand can be useful for playing movies Oct 20 17:13:51 mgedmin900: in the RST38h way Oct 20 17:13:53 the stand is great for attaching cute and furry things like all the asians do Oct 20 17:13:55 SpeedEvil, the thought of wireless tv out makes me drool Oct 20 17:13:56 cosmo: lol, yeah Oct 20 17:13:59 i think that would rock Oct 20 17:14:01 cosmo, if you want to rent a larger sedan, a Charger might be an option. Oct 20 17:14:03 perfect for presentations Oct 20 17:14:03 lcuk: yeah Oct 20 17:14:11 suihkulokki: This one doesn't... Oct 20 17:14:14 suihkulokki: there's a proper hole for that you know? Oct 20 17:14:14 I'm waiting for ioquake to get a data files downloader Oct 20 17:14:32 lcuk: though it'd have to be digital wireless TV out in many parts of the world Oct 20 17:14:46 hello kitty on tv \o/ Oct 20 17:14:46 FM transmitter in car is not so hot - works fine in the house though Oct 20 17:14:46 i dont care what type of tv out it is Oct 20 17:14:52 but wireless would be great Oct 20 17:15:00 need to look into the FM receiver it has built in to auto-change-channels Oct 20 17:15:06 lardman: you can attach many many more to the stand than to the official hole Oct 20 17:15:06 having it wired is lightyears ahead of previous Oct 20 17:15:15 suihkulokki: very true :) Oct 20 17:15:28 think HUNDREDS of hello kittys on a n900! Oct 20 17:15:30 suihkulokki: have to be careful of my monkey getting in the way of the LEDs though ;) Oct 20 17:15:35 hahaha Oct 20 17:15:36 or similar :) Oct 20 17:15:42 did you get to "fix" the feature where it won't let you use it with the charger? Oct 20 17:15:54 not tried that Oct 20 17:16:09 how are hotels in california? in florida the cheap road side hotels were surprisingly good and cheap when we learnt to use the discount coupons Oct 20 17:16:09 Goddamnit, Nokia put the lanyard hole on the wrong end. Oct 20 17:16:28 make your own Oct 20 17:16:29 do you have a lanyard? Oct 20 17:16:31 cosmo, they're pretty much the same. Oct 20 17:16:31 they put it on the wrong side of my E66 too Oct 20 17:16:42 cosmo, rates will be a lot higher if you're staying in the city. Oct 20 17:16:55 cosmo, look for Holiday Inn Expresses if you can. Oct 20 17:17:02 which is to say, the opposite side to the headphone jack, so it can't be in the little case thing with both the headphones and the lanyard attached Oct 20 17:17:06 cosmo, most of them are much newer and they're pretty reasonably priced usually. Oct 20 17:17:25 wjt, think of the n900 as an inline remote control Oct 20 17:17:50 bah, all you people with your summit-given devices Oct 20 17:18:03 * GeneralAntilles didn't get his at the Summit! :P Oct 20 17:18:04 Summit? ;) Oct 20 17:18:13 barisione has been gloating almost continuously Oct 20 17:18:17 nor did I! Oct 20 17:18:23 nor I! Oct 20 17:18:27 wjt: don't listen to them, they're laying. Oct 20 17:18:28 omg i got my device today \o/ Oct 20 17:18:30 Me neither! Oct 20 17:18:33 lardman for example has 3 or 4 devices. Oct 20 17:18:36 :D:D:D:D aSIMULAtor Oct 20 17:18:36 cosmo, there's a cool program in SF where people will rent out their houses or parts of their houses at daily rates. Oct 20 17:18:39 qgil said that!!! ;) Oct 20 17:18:43 lol Oct 20 17:18:55 javispedro: yep, I just kept going up and picking up another one ;) Oct 20 17:18:56 cosmo, great way to stay in the city for a reasonable price in places with a bit more character than your average hotel. Oct 20 17:19:20 well, for those of us who have it, we can still 1up ppl Oct 20 17:19:23 look i has 1up Oct 20 17:19:25 the only one here you can trust not having a device is ME! Oct 20 17:19:26 GeneralAntilles: might suit us. any url? Oct 20 17:19:38 javispedro: I did get a video out cable though, and managed to watch a video from N900 yesterday Oct 20 17:19:42 wjt: my precious precious n900 :D Oct 20 17:19:46 * barisione loves it Oct 20 17:19:48 is there images for n900 and a way to flash them ? Oct 20 17:19:53 javispedro: How is #idonthaveann900 going? :p Oct 20 17:20:05 pusling: no images iirc, and using flasher same as ever Oct 20 17:20:06 pusling, theres lots of images of n900 on flickr Oct 20 17:20:15 qwerty12_N810: fine, better than when you were in! Oct 20 17:20:20 some might even be taken with flash Oct 20 17:20:21 javispedro: Being able to leave that chan was awesome Oct 20 17:20:21 cosmo, I don't remember, but let me send an email and I can find out. Oct 20 17:20:22 is flickr working for any of you guys btw? Oct 20 17:20:30 lcuk: funny. Oct 20 17:20:53 me wonders how to go from a nice OssoABookContactModel to something like OssoABookContactView that has signals, without having a GUI widget Oct 20 17:20:56 or is there a way to get past the initial 'language choosing/regional settings' if the touch screen is unresponsive ? Oct 20 17:21:01 * javispedro DISLIKES #idonthaveann900 TOURISTS Oct 20 17:21:01 aSIMULAtor, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/flickr.com Oct 20 17:21:11 >_> Oct 20 17:21:13 <_< Oct 20 17:21:16 aSIMULAtur: its down for me Oct 20 17:21:17 ;P Oct 20 17:21:24 pusling, not sure Oct 20 17:21:25 o wow that's an awesome site Oct 20 17:21:27 omg my precious flickr Oct 20 17:21:33 pusling: you have prototype? Oct 20 17:21:38 i just tried to upload a photo of my CAT from the N900 Oct 20 17:21:38 but this morning gmail has been giving me issues too Oct 20 17:21:39 PARADOX Oct 20 17:21:40 * You have been kicked from #idonthaveann900 by qwerty12_N810 (qwerty12_N810) Oct 20 17:21:41 GeneralAntilles: that would be nice.. my address is first 3 characters of my nick at iki.fi Oct 20 17:21:48 suihkulokki: yep. for several minutes. unfortunately unworking. Oct 20 17:21:58 ah treemodel has signals, nice Oct 20 17:22:07 lcuk: qwerty12_N810 kicked me out too now :( Oct 20 17:22:21 * lardman goes to sort out supper Oct 20 17:22:34 * GeneralAntilles sorts lardman|afk while he isn't looking. Oct 20 17:22:35 ./j #ihavemultiplen900s Oct 20 17:22:54 suihkulokki: is it a common hardware issue that the touch screen doesn't work or did I just get unlucky ? Oct 20 17:22:56 pusling: for protos you should ask for the firmware image from whoever you got the proto from Oct 20 17:22:58 * GeneralAntilles high-fives aSIMULAtor. Oct 20 17:23:00 aSIMULAtor, show off :p Oct 20 17:23:24 suihkulokki, don't believe Nokia is distributing ones for the Summit people, sadly. Oct 20 17:23:29 suihkulokki: or I'm not sure if it is a proto or a 'final unreleased' edition Oct 20 17:23:35 * javispedro registes that channel, he may need it when his world conquering routine finally runs. Oct 20 17:23:58 moo, javis, asimula Oct 20 17:24:00 Ah, that was fun. Oct 20 17:24:04 /part #idonthaveann900 Oct 20 17:24:06 someone should register icanhasmultiplen900z.com Oct 20 17:24:17 RST38h o hai Oct 20 17:24:19 hiyo RST38h Oct 20 17:24:44 mmm @ spam email Oct 20 17:24:47 "re: custom diaper cakes available! - perfect for baby showers!" Oct 20 17:24:54 #my2ndtabletisanewton ? Oct 20 17:25:02 i hope they arent filled with chocolate sauce Oct 20 17:25:09 can someone make an app like what they had on the newton Oct 20 17:25:14 where u could write with your own handwritin Oct 20 17:25:17 +g Oct 20 17:25:20 then it'll turn it into a font Oct 20 17:25:25 just for kicks Oct 20 17:25:41 Oh. My. God. Oct 20 17:25:46 http://liqbase.net/liq.20081126_224040.gary.scr.png Oct 20 17:25:55 You though that Puck Mouse was bad? :D Oct 20 17:26:02 RST38h, hey! Oct 20 17:26:07 aSIMULAtor, ^ Oct 20 17:26:19 General: ? Oct 20 17:26:23 lul :) Oct 20 17:26:28 My 2nd tablet is a Newton. :P Oct 20 17:26:33 * GeneralAntilles misses the Newton. Oct 20 17:26:35 hehehe =) Oct 20 17:26:43 http://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_225420.gary.scr.png Oct 20 17:26:44 Zoomer was better though Oct 20 17:26:52 My first tablet was an Microwriter Agenda. Oct 20 17:27:02 Introducing "The Magic Mouse - First Mouse that doesn't click" Oct 20 17:27:26 or it clicks Oct 20 17:27:33 wazd: another load of apple's cultware? =) Oct 20 17:27:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MicroWriter,_AgendA,_and_CyKey.jpg - top right Oct 20 17:27:42 syas drhjirhydhj apparantly Oct 20 17:27:46 finally killed off the last mouse button? Oct 20 17:27:59 tracy means brb Oct 20 17:28:24 Speed: Well if you start claiming stuff like this, my first tablet was an MK85 Oct 20 17:28:33 RST38h: no, I guess it clicks, my bad :) Oct 20 17:29:08 RST38h: I could actually possibly lay my hands on the agenda in about a day of digging Oct 20 17:29:21 http://www.knightrifles.com/catalog.aspx?catID=MK-85 - I guess not Oct 20 17:29:26 my first tablet, still more cute than current devices: http://62.93.166.18/fg/90/40/9040694_1.jpg Oct 20 17:29:51 hehe Oct 20 17:30:27 It was multitouch! (the agenda) Oct 20 17:30:32 (though not capacitive) Oct 20 17:30:57 RST38h: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/20/apples-jony-ive-waxes-eloquently-about-new-imacs-on-video/ Oct 20 17:31:08 My first tablet was a Pocket PC. Fuck yeah Oct 20 17:31:10 RST38h: new iMac looks like Touch Diamond 2, lol Oct 20 17:31:23 RST38h: black top, metal bottom :D Oct 20 17:35:26 oooooooor it doesn't click! Oct 20 17:36:24 hello kitty on tv \o/ Oct 20 17:36:26 err.. Oct 20 17:36:29 stupid irssi. Oct 20 17:36:30 anyone remember the Pocket PC ads "Pocket PC, your palm can't do that" Oct 20 17:36:44 thank god I don't. Oct 20 17:36:47 heh Oct 20 17:37:12 wazd: hmm...change of color scheme? :) Oct 20 17:37:53 wazd: Oh it is not the change in color scheme, they just used the design from higher-end Mac desktops Oct 20 17:38:21 penguinbait: my palm still can't do that kind of perverse abomination Oct 20 17:38:31 heh Oct 20 17:38:37 and it (the abomination) is already up to v6.5 Oct 20 17:39:07 Magic Mouse Oct 20 17:39:08 lol Oct 20 17:39:23 They accomplished nearly everything I did with my MX Revolution. Oct 20 17:39:40 * javispedro taps his still working m130. 7 years with me iirc. Oct 20 17:39:43 GeneralAntilles: or VX Nano :) Oct 20 17:39:51 wazd, VX suxs. Oct 20 17:39:59 GeneralAntilles: you suck! Die!111 Oct 20 17:40:02 GeneralAntilles: :D Oct 20 17:40:17 wazd: he has karma -1, don't mess with him. Oct 20 17:40:22 lol, what? Oct 20 17:40:33 back Oct 20 17:40:34 Someone clicked the Finish Him button on GeneralAntilles? Oct 20 17:40:41 zerojay, X-Fade made my karma −1. :( Oct 20 17:40:44 Don't defy him! Oct 20 17:40:44 zerojay: X-Faded did Oct 20 17:40:49 ouch typo. Oct 20 17:40:50 GeneralAntilles, serious? Oct 20 17:40:57 lol Oct 20 17:40:58 * RST38h does not understand obsession with mice. Now, trackballs....ahhhh Oct 20 17:41:03 GeneralAntilles has been x-faded Oct 20 17:41:06 As a joke, right? Oct 20 17:41:49 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/x-fade-wins.jpg Oct 20 17:41:55 zerojay: no, and the reason he's not responding to constant pinging right now is because he's on a plane to the US, in order to really "finish" GAN. Oct 20 17:42:14 >:) Oct 20 17:42:19 Hahaha. Oct 20 17:42:31 Johnnie Ive is one damn crazy designer Oct 20 17:42:43 with absolutely washed brains :) Oct 20 17:42:43 General: Got the passport? Oct 20 17:42:45 OK, aside from being overpriced the Mac mini server is pretty badass. Oct 20 17:42:51 RST38h, yup, 28 hours too late. Oct 20 17:42:59 wazd: Whaddayawant? He started with toilet appliances Oct 20 17:43:14 ~ping Oct 20 17:43:15 ~pong Oct 20 17:43:17 General: Then you still have a few hours to cross into Mexico, until X-Fade lands! Oct 20 17:44:03 RST38h: every video with him is bloody scarry Oct 20 17:44:56 wazd: gonna make an almost perfect Jobs replacement Oct 20 17:45:13 OK, somebody needs to figure out this whole key rebinding thing. Oct 20 17:45:32 key rebinding? Oct 20 17:46:02 Yeah, so I can bind fn-right arrow to tab or fn-shift-v to pipe Oct 20 17:46:04 xmodmap isn't playing nice Oct 20 17:46:07 and the HAL stuff is confusing me. Oct 20 17:48:19 oh for fuck's sake, what a fucking tool: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=352846&postcount=160 Oct 20 17:48:48 at least he's getting back on topic Oct 20 17:48:53 * crashanddie_ stfu Oct 20 17:49:37 GeneralAntilles, letg's make a deal: build iptables or xchat with kinetic scrolling, and I'll figure out keybindings Oct 20 17:50:16 mgedmin900, XChat with kinetic is damn near impossible. Oct 20 17:50:22 and I don't build things anyway. :P Oct 20 17:50:29 hehe Oct 20 17:50:34 irssi++ Oct 20 17:50:48 although i dunno how that's gonna work out with no alt key Oct 20 17:50:51 Doesn't have kinetic either. Oct 20 17:51:17 i bet kinetic scrolling is avalable as irssi plugin somewhere :) Oct 20 17:51:17 * lcuk laughs at the mirror thread Oct 20 17:51:18 GeneralAntilles: You have that Dell, right, and you do say your interest is documentation...? Oct 20 17:51:31 Dell documentation is good Oct 20 17:51:35 qwerty12_N810, what of it? Oct 20 17:51:45 it's the people throwing away the documentation, or assuming that it's crap that are idiots Oct 20 17:51:58 that, and the fact that the documentation is aimed at people with brains Oct 20 17:52:10 GeneralAntilles: Utilise your love of documentation and get to building! :p Oct 20 17:52:12 (and not asperger's syndrome, like most IT personnel) Oct 20 17:52:18 after 3 days I now have a FULLY update Vista VM! Now, what did I want to use it for... Oct 20 17:52:36 testing secure deletion functionality of linux Oct 20 17:52:41 wipe that VM Oct 20 17:52:49 secure deletion? Oct 20 17:52:55 rm --force ? Oct 20 17:53:06 crashanddie_: LOL... asperger's... that's funny. Oct 20 17:53:14 dd if=/dev/zero of=/file/to/delete Oct 20 17:53:15 no, non recoverable deletion - the military spec multiple overwriting thingy Oct 20 17:53:27 heh Oct 20 17:53:35 dd if=/dev/urandom of=/file/to/delete is more secure Oct 20 17:53:42 no, it's not Oct 20 17:53:50 srm ! Oct 20 17:54:18 cosmo, the whole point is that a single over-write can leave a residual magnetic field which could theoretically be used to recover the previous data Oct 20 17:54:29 nuke the hard disk from orbit Oct 20 17:54:37 crashanddie_: back in the day Oct 20 17:54:38 cosmo, whether the data currently on the disk is random or full 0's doesn't really change the residual data Oct 20 17:54:38 mgedmin900: yeah! Oct 20 17:54:38 expensive Oct 20 17:54:39 acid, bitches Oct 20 17:54:42 you americans are always on orbit Oct 20 17:54:43 crashanddie_: not really so much now Oct 20 17:54:47 corrode the discs Oct 20 17:54:50 SpeedEvil, I know Oct 20 17:54:58 crashanddie_: data is _A_HELL_ of a lot denser than it ever was Oct 20 17:54:58 srm -l should be fine Oct 20 17:55:06 SpeedEvil, good point Oct 20 17:55:24 but with perpendicular recording the data is stored a lot deeper into the disk Oct 20 17:55:25 apt:secure-delete/usr/bin/srm Oct 20 17:55:37 * GeneralAntilles doesn't see what's wrong with the Thanks! system. Oct 20 17:55:38 lcuk: but - the signal-noise ratio is a _lot_ smaller Oct 20 17:55:40 anyway, it's funny, because people keep talking about this "secure deletion" on "military grade" Oct 20 17:56:00 secure deletion is a mound of thermite Oct 20 17:56:04 says the security officer Oct 20 17:56:11 srm = 7 passes random, srm -l = 1 pass random, 1 pass zero Oct 20 17:56:11 the thing is, I've worked with armed forces, police forces and various governments, and I've never heard of anything of the like Oct 20 17:56:32 lcuk: back in the day, you had a - say - 10dB signal-noise ratio - because you had to be able to read every single bit, or you got a CRC error. Oct 20 17:56:40 thats because you are not at the poop end of the big machine Oct 20 17:56:54 when drivers and hardware is decommissioned, it should be securely destroyed Oct 20 17:57:06 to prevent sensitive data from escaping (on laptops on trains) Oct 20 17:57:09 lcuk: now, the SNR is perhaps 1 or 2dB, and the encoding is a couple of orders of magnitude more complex, with forward-error-correction, and ... Oct 20 17:57:10 should Oct 20 17:57:20 prying discs open and messing them is a true military thing Oct 20 17:57:40 glass where do you think shrapnel comes from! Oct 20 17:58:00 GeneralAntilles: Nor do I. Oct 20 17:58:02 lcuk: from the glass casing on the grenade Oct 20 17:58:10 lcuk, usually, when something is secure, they just encrypt the shite out of it, separate all the odd byte on one disk, and all the even bytes on another (byte[0] -> disk 0, byte [2] -> disk 0, etc), and then just store the disks in separate physical locations, if something goes wrong, destroy disks Oct 20 17:59:01 encryption is not unbreakable, its just inpractical Oct 20 17:59:11 if something goes wrong, start a MAD with the world. eventually, the nation with your state secrets will be nuked. Oct 20 17:59:15 where does the split site disk striping? Oct 20 17:59:23 who wrote the seminal paper on secure deletion from magnetic media? Oct 20 17:59:26 cos that sounds cool Oct 20 17:59:31 but entirely impractical Oct 20 17:59:55 just have lots of guards and physical security Oct 20 18:00:51 a company that you all know off has its root ca stored in a similar fashion, excepted that the encryption/usage quorum is based off 127 different smartcards, of which none of the owners know the PIN (PIN is safeguarded by another 127 people). Realistically speaking, none of these people have ever seen either smartcard or PIN, they just know the access code to the safe that holds said piece of information Oct 20 18:01:40 so all 127 people have to bring their piece together (like power rangers) :D Oct 20 18:01:55 well, not really Oct 20 18:01:58 or 127 people have access to unlocking the whole thing on their own Oct 20 18:02:01 you only need x amount of people from those 127 Oct 20 18:02:08 probably something like 1/4 Oct 20 18:02:20 so 33 or something Oct 20 18:03:16 that sounds more secure than the super powers access to launch bunkers Oct 20 18:03:22 * GeneralAntilles sighs at gnuite. Oct 20 18:03:26 Android koolaid, yum! Oct 20 18:03:42 lcuk, it probably is Oct 20 18:04:06 lcuk, the main difference is that those companies realise that encryption is only temporary Oct 20 18:04:17 which sadly, is something that governments don't Oct 20 18:04:19 gnuite, android cooolaid? Oct 20 18:04:28 governments use guns to the same effect Oct 20 18:04:29 73 bugs cloned oin the last 7 days. before i normally had around 10. whou... Oct 20 18:04:31 i have to go eating tea Oct 20 18:04:31 ah, I think i'm confusing him with someone else. Oct 20 18:04:58 andre___, more coming. :) Oct 20 18:05:04 andre___: so, you'd say the quality of bmo bugs is increasing at the same rate as the quality of tmo posts? Oct 20 18:05:11 hehe. Oct 20 18:05:28 timeless_mbp, ping? Oct 20 18:05:28 javispedro, you wrote quality but maybe you meant quantity? :-P Oct 20 18:05:38 Hey! Oct 20 18:05:42 hey, tmo quality is increasing immensely, i'm posting! Oct 20 18:05:50 Don't impinge the fine people of t.m.o. Oct 20 18:05:50 * w00t outweighs all possible negative benefit Oct 20 18:05:55 didn't even have time today to look at t.m.o :-/ Oct 20 18:05:57 They're only doing their best. *g* Oct 20 18:05:57 andre___, :D Oct 20 18:06:08 hey, me too. Oct 20 18:06:20 lol Oct 20 18:06:25 * javispedro listens to the Vista sample tunes Oct 20 18:08:16 Hrm, that's really weird. Oct 20 18:08:25 The FM transmitter works with an official Nokia charger plugged in. Oct 20 18:08:49 andre: People suddenly found out what karma was for. And then found out how to increase it. Oct 20 18:09:11 pong Oct 20 18:09:13 Bugs are an easy way to the top. ;) Oct 20 18:09:23 yep Oct 20 18:09:29 timeless_mbp, the automatic update checker dialog strings are ugly. Oct 20 18:09:34 RST38h, hehe. as long as the reports are good i'm fine with that Oct 20 18:09:36 GeneralAntilles, maybe they dont wnat to dump FM into computers? :-) Oct 20 18:09:43 well, then make it so that adding patch keyword adds even more karma :) Oct 20 18:09:44 timeless_mbp, can we find a better way to show the number of updates available? Oct 20 18:10:01 ShadowJK, sadly I guess it thinks my iGo is a data cable. Oct 20 18:10:21 3rd party charging is going to be problematic on the N900. . . . Oct 20 18:10:42 entirely expected :) Oct 20 18:10:49 GeneralAntilles: Does it disable the FM transmitter when you plug it into a computer? Oct 20 18:11:15 Yes. Oct 20 18:11:17 yes, qwerty Oct 20 18:11:48 It does not offer me the PC Suite/Mass storage choice with the iGo, however. Oct 20 18:11:48 or when you plug in headphones Oct 20 18:11:55 Thanks, at least I've got something to try this with :p Oct 20 18:12:24 I want it to stop playing music (pause) when the earphones are plugged out Oct 20 18:12:32 or at least an option for that in media player Oct 20 18:13:52 Main reason for that is that I'm tired of getting weird looks everytime I pull on the earphone cord and people realise I'm listening to porn soundtracks Oct 20 18:14:05 Proteous, ping? Oct 20 18:14:13 crashanddie_: dbus-monitor --system and write something up Oct 20 18:14:44 qwerty12_N810, I'm training two news guys who just earned a PhD in quantum physics how to program using our internal API Oct 20 18:15:01 qwerty12_N810, the last thing I want after a day of work is to start using another horrible API (D-BUS for example) Oct 20 18:15:10 *shrug* Oct 20 18:16:13 GeneralAntilles: Actually being useful is the best way to the top? I never would have guessed. ;) Oct 20 18:17:20 the guys can explain in detail what spintronics is and how it's going to be awesome in the future (same thing they've been saying about spintronics for the past 20 years), but they just can't fathom the difference between an EJB and a locally instantiated object, numbnuts Oct 20 18:18:11 it's because quantum physics is a real phenomenon, while 99% of software engineering is bullshit invented to make the practitioners sound clever Oct 20 18:18:35 once they grasp that idea, they'll be fine Oct 20 18:19:00 Even though you're probably right, and I'd love to quote you on that tomorrow Oct 20 18:19:22 If I start a sentence by "Quantum Physics is a real phenomenon", I'm never going to get any work done before lunchtime Oct 20 18:19:45 By the way Oct 20 18:19:48 about the topic Oct 20 18:20:06 why is it "N900 and Maemo 5 announced", when really, we're far beyond that point Oct 20 18:20:19 and secondly, why is "maemo.org" after that announcement? Oct 20 18:22:00 crashandie Oct 20 18:22:06 Anybody know what the output of the DC-6 is? Oct 20 18:22:09 on the n900 Oct 20 18:22:10 crashanddie_, link? Oct 20 18:22:26 there are separate volume levels for headphones and speakers Oct 20 18:22:32 GeneralAntilles, /topic Oct 20 18:22:38 Oh Oct 20 18:22:45 Change it. Oct 20 18:22:53 unplug, set volume to 0, plug, listen Oct 20 18:24:50 much better. Oct 20 18:24:56 should we not specify that mxr are the sources? Oct 20 18:25:25 and change the ChanServ auto message to add the IRC logs link to the welcome message? Oct 20 18:25:35 so that we save some space in the /topic? Oct 20 18:25:58 I dislike the automsg, but heh. Oct 20 18:25:58 Already does that. Oct 20 18:26:01 not all clients show it Oct 20 18:26:10 mine just drops anything from chanserv Oct 20 18:26:39 "That's your own damn fault then" comes to mind :P Oct 20 18:26:43 you like boasting around your OP status or what? :D Oct 20 18:26:56 javispedro, nope, he needs to be op to do some operations IIRC Oct 20 18:26:58 Time for another OP party? :) Oct 20 18:27:13 Bleh Oct 20 18:27:14 X-Fade, I think his -1 wasn't enough Oct 20 18:27:26 X-Fade, /msg chanserv set irc://chat.freenode.net/#maemo entrymsg Welcome to irc://chat.freenode.net/#maemo! http://maemo.org/ Logs available at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Oct 20 18:27:50 that got messed up. Oct 20 18:27:53 I think. Oct 20 18:28:02 Don't have enough perms. Oct 20 18:28:10 works fine Oct 20 18:28:15 I really wish Freenode would freaking hurry up and process the damn contact form. Oct 20 18:28:17 [19:28] -ChanServ- [#maemo] This channel is logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Oct 20 18:28:23 Ah Oct 20 18:28:32 rejoin party! Oct 20 18:28:40 na, ChanServ shows the older message still. Oct 20 18:28:51 Erm, when did freenode-staff become founder? Oct 20 18:29:45 lol Oct 20 18:30:01 GeneralAntilles, why are you still the one with all the access to CS, btw? Oct 20 18:30:11 Probably because the founder's account expired? Oct 20 18:30:17 CS? Oct 20 18:30:25 ChanServ Oct 20 18:30:35 Oh, because I'm amazing, that's why. Oct 20 18:30:37 crashanddie_: Proven track record? Oct 20 18:30:42 I was just typing that, GeneralAntilles. Oct 20 18:30:43 hehe. Oct 20 18:30:56 X-Fade, not challenging the reasoning here, for the record Oct 20 18:31:13 crashanddie_: Plus different timezone helps :) Oct 20 18:31:27 oh bollocks Oct 20 18:31:41 ps3 networking crashes at 96% of a 1.8 Gig download Oct 20 18:31:46 so a troll with -1 karma is the ruler of #maemo? ;) Oct 20 18:31:56 Unless somebody wants to stay awake 24/7 ? Oct 20 18:31:57 javispedro, lmao! Oct 20 18:32:01 javispedro: Seems so. Oct 20 18:32:15 X-Fade, never seen you do anything in #maemo Oct 20 18:32:26 X-Fade, can you come to Freenode? Oct 20 18:32:26 no wonder qwerty is the ruler of #idonthaveann900 then. Oct 20 18:32:29 or maybe threaten me once to ban me if i didn't watch my language :P Oct 20 18:32:33 er Oct 20 18:32:35 #freenode Oct 20 18:32:42 X-Fade, they want the guy who filed the form. Oct 20 18:32:42 crashanddie_: That is because I am evil behind the scenes. Oct 20 18:32:54 X-Fade, hehe, behind the scenes is so much more fun Oct 20 18:32:57 Question: Can I insert stuff that looks like a SMS from somewhere? Oct 20 18:33:10 zash, sorry? Oct 20 18:33:12 Christ. Oct 20 18:33:16 I hate this network sometimes. Oct 20 18:33:19 GeneralAntilles, yes? Oct 20 18:33:32 oh, blasphemy, right Oct 20 18:33:34 crashanddie_, "Yes, my son?" Oct 20 18:33:44 GeneralAntilles: Let's start irc.maemo.org! Oct 20 18:33:52 GeneralAntilles, you're not my son you bastard Oct 20 18:33:53 X-Fade, have they refitted the neural transponder? Oct 20 18:34:00 qwerty12_N810, like the people, generally irritated by the administration. Oct 20 18:34:12 But daddy! :( Oct 20 18:34:13 crashanddie_: can you put a sms message into the inbox with whatever from/to you want Oct 20 18:34:20 on maemo/n900 Oct 20 18:34:37 oh, no, not a seperate irc server.. we have enough politics already Oct 20 18:34:41 zash, I highly doubt it Oct 20 18:34:53 +1 Stskeeps Oct 20 18:34:54 * w00t ^5s Stskeeps Oct 20 18:34:57 zash: could probably add it to the el.db, but i assume you want the actual incoming sms notification and all that? Oct 20 18:35:10 Stskeeps: What about if your (ex-)IRCD is used? :p Oct 20 18:35:21 qwerty12_N810: still. Oct 20 18:35:44 there's enough crap without running a network for it really Oct 20 18:35:50 Stskeeps: Meh. Oct 20 18:36:19 not to mention that the 770 is already quite overloaded to host yet another 300 bots Oct 20 18:36:31 *403 Oct 20 18:36:34 hah Oct 20 18:36:37 w00t, lol, and you are so involved with the internal processes of Maemo to be judging that how, exactly? Oct 20 18:36:40 403 already? O.o Oct 20 18:36:53 Sadly, I wont get my council cloak. :( Oct 20 18:37:08 GeneralAntilles, cloaks are overrated anyway Oct 20 18:37:12 GeneralAntilles: pong Oct 20 18:37:16 * GeneralAntilles would settle for /maemo.org/BAMF/GeneralAntilles/ Oct 20 18:37:25 Proteous, you wouldn't happen to have a DC-6 would you? Oct 20 18:37:35 Well it seems I will get the channel now. Oct 20 18:37:43 Everybody run! Oct 20 18:37:47 we're doomed! Oct 20 18:37:48 * qwerty12_N810 bows down to X-Fade Oct 20 18:37:52 I don't know what is a dc6 Oct 20 18:37:52 So cloaks are coming up ;) Oct 20 18:38:05 Proteous, the MicroUSB car charger. Oct 20 18:38:14 X-Fade, can I have /maemo.org/troll/crashanddie ? Oct 20 18:38:14 crashanddie_: I'm not, I just like to hope that I know a few things about being involved in projects, and the politics of doing so Oct 20 18:38:26 crashanddie_: (and a little helping of commonsense on the side too) Oct 20 18:38:27 sadly no Oct 20 18:38:56 Proteous, ah well, thanks. Trying to figure out the rating to see how well it'll charge the N900. Oct 20 18:39:03 ah Oct 20 18:39:37 I'd think it would be finr Oct 20 18:39:41 er fine Oct 20 18:40:24 Proteous, yeah, I think so too, but there's academic interest involved now since I can't seem to dig up any specs anywhere. Oct 20 18:40:33 heh Oct 20 18:40:53 dc to dc voltage converters are pretty robust Oct 20 18:41:55 GeneralAntilles, I've seen 550mA Oct 20 18:42:22 GeneralAntilles, so OC disorder enabling is now called "academic interest"? Oct 20 18:42:22 The DC-4 is about ~380 Oct 20 18:42:26 550mA would be nice. Oct 20 18:42:30 crashanddie_, yes. Oct 20 18:42:43 crashanddie_, if I can't be in denial what do I have left? Oct 20 18:42:52 GeneralAntilles, acceptance? Oct 20 18:43:04 I accept nothing! Oct 20 18:43:48 GeneralAntilles, well, after denial you've got anger, bargaining and depression before reaching acceptance Oct 20 18:44:54 the same site quotes 800mA for DC-4 :-) Oct 20 18:45:14 ShadowJK, weird, wonder if I'm misremembering the model number. . . . Oct 20 18:45:37 I assume at the moment changing batteries involves a full shutdown? Oct 20 18:45:38 X-Fade, can I get a /maemo.org/contributor/GeneralAntilles? :D Oct 20 18:45:44 SpeedEvil, sadly, yes. Oct 20 18:45:51 :/ Oct 20 18:46:12 I really want a fat cap so we can swap batteries easily. Oct 20 18:46:12 GeneralAntilles: Can you make a proposal of the cloaks on a wiki page? Oct 20 18:46:19 X-Fade, will do. Oct 20 18:46:40 GeneralAntilles, very, very fat cap Oct 20 18:46:44 GeneralAntilles: Would be nice. Doesn't even need to be that fat. how long will the device live in suspend with the radio off? Oct 20 18:47:07 The thing should draw almost nothing in low power mode. Oct 20 18:47:18 battery capacity/that time = not many watts, * 60s is not a huge number Oct 20 18:47:46 That's one of the features I loved most about the old Apple laptops. Oct 20 18:49:02 * GeneralAntilles ponders a minimum karma level for cloaks. :D Oct 20 18:49:04 GeneralAntilles: Will see if I can arrange some cloaks tomorrow. Need to go now. Oct 20 18:49:06 ooh, cloaks Oct 20 18:49:30 Cloaks? Cool. Oct 20 18:49:33 Say 1200mAh - and 120 hours, that's 10mA draw, 10mA-min is .6As, so 1F would drop .6V Oct 20 18:49:33 X-Fade, later. Oct 20 18:50:21 GeneralAntilles: 110 karma for a cloak seems enough *goes to check, yepp, barely makes it*... 110, right? ;) Oct 20 18:50:39 1K seems fair. Oct 20 18:51:02 Works for me ;) Oct 20 18:51:12 1k was what I was thinking. Oct 20 18:51:36 what is a cloak and why would we need one Oct 20 18:51:40 1k worksforme ;) Oct 20 18:51:44 does it include a wizard hat too Oct 20 18:51:44 so wait, the n900 draws only 10mA per second? Oct 20 18:51:47 With exceptions made at the whim of the http://maemo.org junta. Oct 20 18:51:57 Which don't exist. Oct 20 18:51:57 hey, cool, I've got more karma than xfade Oct 20 18:51:58 at what voltage? Oct 20 18:52:00 crashanddie_, in idle it wouldn't be impossible Oct 20 18:52:09 crashanddie_, idle power draw is basically just RAM and some radio. Oct 20 18:52:17 what voltage? Oct 20 18:52:22 let's assume 10 mAh Oct 20 18:52:25 Battery is 3.7v Oct 20 18:52:36 time to change the battery, let's say 1 minute? Oct 20 18:52:40 Battery voltage will range from 3.5 to 4.2 Oct 20 18:52:45 3.5 Oct 20 18:52:49 GeneralAntilles: Well 4.2 -> 3.6, yes. Oct 20 18:52:54 or 3 minutes to be safe? Oct 20 18:52:57 Battery changing might take me all of about 5 seconds. Oct 20 18:53:17 1F should be plenty Oct 20 18:53:34 lcuk: a cloak stops people seeing your ip address on /whois Oct 20 18:53:52 my N800 idles at 7mA, wlan on :-) Oct 20 18:54:04 4V Oct 20 18:54:15 ahh ali1234 Oct 20 18:54:23 lcuk, it's also a major vanity thing when you have one from an org. ;) Oct 20 18:54:37 1 minute at 3.5V at 10mAh = 12.6 farads in my calculations Oct 20 18:55:08 crashanddie_: 10mA * 60 = .6amp-seconds. 1F will drop 1V in 1s, with a 1A draw Oct 20 18:55:34 2 minutes at 4.5V at 20mAh = 14 Fanoushes. Oct 20 18:55:34 F = A * t * V Oct 20 18:55:44 * mgedmin 's head is swimming from all these electromagnetical terms Oct 20 18:55:47 GeneralAntilles, but people are already in here with you - why do they care Oct 20 18:55:48 Assuming it starts off at ~4.2V, and ends up at ~3 - that gives you 1.2V drop. Oct 20 18:55:48 lol Oct 20 18:55:52 mgedmin, not magnetism involved Oct 20 18:56:07 hey, where you've got moving charges, you've got magnetism Oct 20 18:56:09 basic physics Oct 20 18:56:09 So it's last ~80s. Oct 20 18:56:11 Well Oct 20 18:56:22 or was it accelerating charges Oct 20 18:56:23 Or a bit more. Oct 20 18:56:24 waaah, /me fails Oct 20 18:56:38 the maemo.org account karma bars are strange Oct 20 18:56:47 If you change at low battery warning, somewhere around 3.5V, and it drops to 3.3V, the device has probably switched off Oct 20 18:56:50 those with <=1 are bigger than the hundreds ones Oct 20 18:56:54 mgedmin, you've got minimal electromagnetic charge when accelerates, but at these levels you can forget about it Oct 20 18:57:16 lcuk: My longest bar is for Discussion. 1 point. :) Oct 20 18:57:27 I guess you could use a boost circuit to charge the capacitor to 10V or however much it will take, and a regulator to bring it down to 3.7... Oct 20 18:57:31 no your bugzilla is longer Oct 20 18:57:40 ShadowJK: naah Oct 20 18:57:48 lcuk: Oh, is it? Oct 20 18:57:50 but i get the idea lol Oct 20 18:57:52 ShadowJK: these caps are _very_ constrained in terms of voltage Oct 20 18:57:54 http://maemo.org/profile/view/zerojay/ Oct 20 18:58:01 yeah i was on your page when you said it lol Oct 20 18:58:13 SpeedEvil, they also self-discharge something mad, right Oct 20 18:58:15 Hah. Oct 20 18:58:26 ShadowJK: you don't care much about that though Oct 20 18:58:44 ShadowJK: you could even only charge when the user says they want to charge bats. Oct 20 18:58:45 ShadowJK, anyway, seems quite stupid to try and have this feature Oct 20 18:58:49 ahhhh Oct 20 18:58:50 1 Oct 20 18:58:50 Oct 20 18:58:50 but you do care about 0.2V voltage drop if you were already at a battery-low warning situation Oct 20 18:58:57 width set to 0% Oct 20 18:59:04 so is down to browser Oct 20 18:59:15 what's the favourites bar? Oct 20 18:59:15 perhaps maemo.org should use a minimum 1% width Oct 20 18:59:16 Practically speaking though. The cap costs ~$1 in bulk, and is a sizable fraction of a cc. Oct 20 18:59:17 ShadowJK, especially considering that a ram-to-disk shutdown method would prevent the whole thing Oct 20 18:59:22 that's probably enough to kill it. Oct 20 18:59:38 crashanddie_: that means powering up all the way - also slow flash is slow. Oct 20 18:59:57 slow flash is slow indeed Oct 20 19:00:16 probably wouldn't be too bad on suspend, brutal on resume though Oct 20 19:00:28 0.25 points there are almost reaching my discussion bar with 716 Oct 20 19:00:32 probably because of the lcuk effect Oct 20 19:01:01 one of the tech teachers in my school tried to tell us you could hack stuff on old bbc micros if you turned the power off and back on quickly, you could get at some of the code and see how they did it Oct 20 19:01:11 he them proceeded to spend about 10 minutes trying Oct 20 19:01:19 and almost blew the circuits Oct 20 19:01:23 this story needs some magic smoke coming out Oct 20 19:01:29 heh yeah Oct 20 19:01:49 Hrm, can we have spaces in cloaks? Oct 20 19:01:54 no Oct 20 19:01:56 nope Oct 20 19:01:59 make it all of spaces Oct 20 19:02:02 invisible cloak Oct 20 19:02:02 Thought not, thanks. Oct 20 19:02:04 GeneralAntilles: Maemo. org? Oct 20 19:02:11 General Antilles! Oct 20 19:02:17 w00t! Oct 20 19:02:31 sorry, I was expressing the space rather than my excitement over your name. :P Oct 20 19:02:37 :P Oct 20 19:02:39 lcuk: that works, they used that trick to get the gameboy rom recently Oct 20 19:03:05 ali1234: also on PCs Oct 20 19:03:06 invisibility cloak works with gameboy rom? Oct 20 19:03:16 my 3g data plan here is a bit too slow for youtube :/ Oct 20 19:03:18 no, very fast power cycling Oct 20 19:03:40 mgedmin: who you with? Oct 20 19:03:44 mgedmin: m.youtube.com? (I know, I know, but...) Oct 20 19:03:47 ok, so if code remains - we just need to get REALLY fast at switching out batteries Oct 20 19:03:48 especially when you're cycling downhill with the wind behind your back Oct 20 19:04:03 w00t: what? Oct 20 19:04:12 mgedmin: who is your data provider, out of curiosity Oct 20 19:04:20 * ShadowJK assumes telenor Oct 20 19:04:24 telenor.se Oct 20 19:04:44 which plan are you on? Oct 20 19:04:49 see, I got this sim card as a courtesy from a company I'm working with Oct 20 19:04:51 ah, ok Oct 20 19:04:53 no clue about data plans Oct 20 19:05:04 probably whichever is cheapest Oct 20 19:05:14 and recently they asked me whether it was fast enough for me Oct 20 19:05:18 and I said yes, it's adequate Oct 20 19:05:19 * GeneralAntilles thinks we should just call Reggie the talkmaster. Oct 20 19:05:30 hammermaster Oct 20 19:05:37 they got one capped at 350kbps and one at 7.2mbps Oct 20 19:05:39 mgedmin: What?! I'd always say 'no' Oct 20 19:05:43 * mgedmin should learn to stop and think before answering Oct 20 19:05:59 speedtest.net said 0.3 Mbit/s Oct 20 19:06:01 there's no thinking involved Oct 20 19:06:12 mgedmin, internet is like cars, it's nevar fast enough Oct 20 19:06:31 mgedmin, w00t: do you know any swedish operators with good prepaid data deals? Oct 20 19:06:40 sadly, no Oct 20 19:06:41 i'm there pretty often and data roaming sucks Oct 20 19:06:44 the internet is like cars in the sense that there's always idiots in the way Oct 20 19:06:57 lolf: prepaid? Oct 20 19:06:58 Arkenklo, those speed bumps are called pedestrians Oct 20 19:06:59 woz Oct 20 19:07:05 lcuk, lmao Oct 20 19:07:05 * mgedmin itches to do something useful Oct 20 19:07:10 Arkenklo: yeah Oct 20 19:07:10 I don't think there's any Oct 20 19:07:13 mgedmin, kill a pedestrian Oct 20 19:07:16 lolf: no, I just always keep my ear to the ground to make sure if I'm ever in a country I don't get a bad provider :) Oct 20 19:07:17 lolf: svenska? Oct 20 19:07:21 ja Oct 20 19:07:22 crashanddie_: no car Oct 20 19:07:29 OK, first draft: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:maemo.org_IRC_cloaks Oct 20 19:07:41 any 3d racing games ported to the n900? Oct 20 19:07:43 mgedmin, how did you get your internet on the go with your n810 and how fast was it Oct 20 19:07:44 lolf: menar du kontantkort med löpande dataabbonemang? Oct 20 19:07:44 anyway I hate racing games Oct 20 19:07:48 mgedmin, who said anything about running them over? I used the generalist word "kill" Oct 20 19:07:51 or any other device Oct 20 19:07:52 eller bara billigt internet? Oct 20 19:08:11 crashanddie_: nah, too much work without a car Oct 20 19:08:12 Arkenklo: billigt internet p kontantkort Oct 20 19:08:17 helst betala fr ngon vecka t gngen Oct 20 19:08:19 kavlor slug pa nutsjar Oct 20 19:08:33 o gal kas nors šiame kanale supranta ir mano kalbą? Oct 20 19:08:39 mgedmin, " speedtest.net said 0.3 Mbit/s" Oct 20 19:08:49 only internet or voice as well lolf? im pretty sure comviq got some data only prepaids Oct 20 19:08:52 thats 6 times faster than my home modem used to be Oct 20 19:09:00 lolf: I think tele2 has an campaign for mobile internet Oct 20 19:09:04 even more i bet Oct 20 19:09:08 "pay only when you need to" Oct 20 19:09:12 beastialita fr vegnia t gngbng Oct 20 19:09:19 but I dont know if thats applicable Oct 20 19:09:28 frals: no voice; this sim card is data-only Oct 20 19:09:35 oh telenor has maximum 19SEK/day for data on prepaid Oct 20 19:09:47 it's bundled with somebody's contract Oct 20 19:09:48 lolf: telia has 9kr/day max Oct 20 19:10:07 Hrm, actually, looking at the list maybe 500 is a better number. Oct 20 19:10:07 nice Oct 20 19:10:09 we had fun one day trying to figure out if my n900 would ring if people were calling him Oct 20 19:10:10 I know I saw someone even cheaper, let me look Oct 20 19:10:24 GeneralAntilles: "automatic update checker dialog" ?? Oct 20 19:10:35 GeneralAntilles: have you installed my package yet? Oct 20 19:10:42 Arkenklo: does that apply to prepaid thou? Oct 20 19:10:50 frals: I think so Oct 20 19:11:04 timeless: u made me rofflez today Oct 20 19:11:30 aSIMULAtur: chewing out the finnish guy? Oct 20 19:11:32 i would rofl irl but then not so sure how clean the floors are at nrc are Oct 20 19:11:34 yeah lol Oct 20 19:11:37 it was so...perfect Oct 20 19:11:40 timeless_mbp, only the first .tar. Oct 20 19:11:49 mind the blod Oct 20 19:11:53 blood Oct 20 19:11:54 timeless_mbp, the thing that comes up when you tap the flashing orange exclamation point in the status bar. Oct 20 19:11:56 GeneralAntilles: i now have a self contained package Oct 20 19:11:57 ah yeah, lolf: http://www.telia.se/privat/produkter_tjanster/mobilt/kontantkort/?sl=privat_produkter_tjanster_mobilt_kontantkort looks pretty good Oct 20 19:12:01 GeneralAntilles: *nod* Oct 20 19:12:02 timeless_mbp: You were chewing out someone? lol Oct 20 19:12:05 timeless_mbp, is it in Extras yet? Oct 20 19:12:08 (-devel) Oct 20 19:12:09 not yet Oct 20 19:12:16 lolf: tele2 has a mobil surf small for 29kr/mån Oct 20 19:12:17 i want to thread the startup for the debug bit Oct 20 19:12:22 * GeneralAntilles whines about having to add repositories. Oct 20 19:12:27 and i need to figure out what the heck to do about gettext Oct 20 19:12:34 but that has a monthly cap of 200mb data Oct 20 19:12:35 * Sargun dances the NDA dance. Oct 20 19:12:39 GeneralAntilles: can you find someone to try to build gettext for me? Oct 20 19:12:43 Review: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:maemo.org_IRC_cloaks Oct 20 19:12:46 qwerty12_N810! Oct 20 19:12:47 timeless_mbp: It's in the SDK repo, add away! Oct 20 19:12:48 i don't want to push it to people, but i want to know if it actually builds Oct 20 19:12:53 GeneralAntilles: Looks good to me. Oct 20 19:12:56 200 mb? I think I had downloaded that much data in a couple of days Oct 20 19:13:07 although it's hard to tell due the bug where the gprs data counters reset Oct 20 19:13:08 It appears I've been working on a super secret, awesome T-mobile project for the past 6 months. Oct 20 19:13:08 qwerty12_N810: when i installed it from there onto aSIMULAtur 's n900, msgunfmt failed Oct 20 19:13:12 because of bad linking Oct 20 19:13:13 it may have been 200 kb after a fresh reset Oct 20 19:13:19 timeless_mbp: Hmm, it worked here Oct 20 19:13:23 I definitely remember seeing 50 mb at some point Oct 20 19:13:26 and I'm here just one week Oct 20 19:13:27 qwerty12_N810: gettext or msgunfmt? Oct 20 19:13:33 I even got coloured output ^_^ Oct 20 19:13:40 timeless_mbp: msgunfmt Oct 20 19:13:43 Sargun, now they're going to sue you into oblivion? :D Oct 20 19:13:44 interesting Oct 20 19:13:48 I downloaded a 600 mb rar containing an entire season of family via torrent on my nokia e61, in one day Oct 20 19:13:50 qwerty12_N810: precisely which repo did you use? Oct 20 19:14:01 Sargun: Almost my entire life is under NDA for one company or another. Oct 20 19:14:02 GeneralAntilles, vaporize me actually. Oct 20 19:14:07 can you compare w/ aSIMULAtur while i finish my code? Oct 20 19:14:20 frals: that looks perfect, thanks Oct 20 19:14:32 wazd: Here? Oct 20 19:14:45 timeless_mbp: The SDK one: "deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle sdk/free sdk/non-free tools/free tools/non-free" Oct 20 19:14:56 qwerty12_N810: i only had sdk/free Oct 20 19:15:08 Anyway, have I heard someone bitching about "ugly" Motorola Droid phone today? Oct 20 19:15:14 tmobile top secret project - "Screw our customers more than AT&T"? Oct 20 19:15:18 Here, take a load of this: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgetmobile.com/media/2009/10/moto-calgary-bgr.jpg Oct 20 19:15:19 RST38h: yeah it is ugly Oct 20 19:15:29 haha, good Oct 20 19:15:32 timeless_mbp: I just did a copy and paste from http://repository.maemo.org/, and all it installed was gettext and gettext-base Oct 20 19:15:36 ShadowJK: t-mobile UK is oddly OK Oct 20 19:15:38 at least i won't be the only one getting screwed by at&t Oct 20 19:15:43 RST38h: the 80s wants their calculators back Oct 20 19:15:49 SpeedEvil, germany is okayish too Oct 20 19:15:50 RST38h: argh, that looks worse than lcuk's proto Oct 20 19:15:55 Sts: Calculators looked better Oct 20 19:16:00 SpeedEvil: Agreed, I'm using them with my N900 now. Oct 20 19:16:06 it looks like one of those qoq, or what they're called Oct 20 19:16:08 Yea, n900 protos do look cuter Oct 20 19:16:18 too small of a screen in a too large of a chassi Oct 20 19:16:23 In short, it looks like a typical Verizon device =) Oct 20 19:16:34 People still think Extras is a Nokia channel. . . . Oct 20 19:16:46 I do hope they're planning on cutting 15 mm of off each side Oct 20 19:17:06 15 only? I don't know why all those droid phones have the slider "borders" Oct 20 19:17:28 javispedro: well, 15 would make it actually usable Oct 20 19:17:32 more would be better Oct 20 19:18:10 lolf: "Med Telenor Fri Mobilsurf behöver du inte tänka på var, när och hur du surfar. Du betalar bara 59 kronor i månaden och kan mobilsurfa helt obegränsat inom Sverige." Oct 20 19:18:27 am i best adding something directly to http://wiki.maemo.org/Troubleshooting or to its talk page Oct 20 19:18:33 i think one of the points isnt right Oct 20 19:18:56 ahh tis ok ill find ossi Oct 20 19:19:00 General: That is least of the problems Oct 20 19:19:18 General: The bigger problem is that nobody knows of Extras Testing and voting Oct 20 19:20:16 and nobody will. Oct 20 19:20:47 I wish I had known that they didn't tell anyone about it when handing out the N900s at Summit. Oct 20 19:20:49 oh thats cheap Oct 20 19:20:54 I don't know of it. :( Oct 20 19:21:09 Makes me feel like a bit of an ass for my post, but I still mean it. Oct 20 19:21:17 and even if suddenly a lot of people start putting feedback on extras-testing.. Oct 20 19:21:24 did all n900 recipients supply an email address Oct 20 19:21:25 who cares about the mainstream? Oct 20 19:21:27 what's going to happen when the device goes the way of the dodo for mainstream? Oct 20 19:21:33 can we send out a batsignal to them Oct 20 19:21:35 no more apps, ever. Oct 20 19:21:56 zerojay: Meh, it's not like extras-testing was unheard of before the Summit :) Oct 20 19:21:58 when you add a program to Extras, it immediately goes to Extras-Testing then? Oct 20 19:22:07 javispedro: dude, this is linux we're talking about Oct 20 19:22:09 qwerty12_N810, to a few of us here it was known Oct 20 19:22:13 it's practically debian Oct 20 19:22:14 but most folks dont care Oct 20 19:22:15 javis: This basically means that they have killed Extras replacing it with Extras testing Oct 20 19:22:16 Arkenklo: have a 770 around? Oct 20 19:22:19 Arkenklo: which doesn't mean that much Oct 20 19:22:21 "extras and testing" are totally different things Oct 20 19:22:29 they dont watch tmo or irc much Oct 20 19:22:35 Arkenklo: there are many things that run linux, and are funcgtionally useless Oct 20 19:22:52 RST38h: agreed. Oct 20 19:23:01 SpeedEvil: true of so many things, not just linux. :( Oct 20 19:23:01 SpeedEvil: it seems that you are not in favor of linux. I'm not talking to you. Oct 20 19:23:18 javispedro: no, but I know it sucks Oct 20 19:23:23 See also, Billy-Joe's Half-Finished Visual Basic Program Oct 20 19:23:27 Arkenklo: there you have. Oct 20 19:23:49 "oh no, something that runs linux sucks" Oct 20 19:23:52 must be linux then Oct 20 19:24:06 Arkenklo: Linux does suck. The things to remember: Oct 20 19:24:15 no. something that's outdated and basically few people build apps for it. Oct 20 19:24:24 a) Everything else sucks too; which sucks less depends entirely on what you're doing with it Oct 20 19:24:35 Solarion: a) indeed Oct 20 19:24:43 b) The suck is decreasing over time Oct 20 19:24:51 c) You can actually help decrease the suck Oct 20 19:24:53 two score Oct 20 19:24:55 Arkenklo: I'm in favour of linux. Oct 20 19:24:56 well, this is a good counterargument: way before testers disappear from extras-testing devs will disappear. Oct 20 19:24:59 d) There is no d) Oct 20 19:25:11 Arkenklo: Linux being on a platform does not magically mean there will be interested devs for that platform. Oct 20 19:25:13 Solarion: e) profit? Oct 20 19:25:20 Arkenklo: sounds good . :) Oct 20 19:25:27 Arkenklo: that don't for example get distracted by the next more shiny platform they are working on. Oct 20 19:25:45 SpeedEvil: of course, but it does mean that if you're the only person interested, you can make it work. Oct 20 19:25:53 Solarion: really? Oct 20 19:25:57 SpeedEvil: yes. Oct 20 19:26:16 Solarion: Given that in many cases 'making it work' will take many man-months or years of effort? Oct 20 19:26:23 SpeedEvil: Yes Oct 20 19:26:35 SpeedEvil: Now you're not talking about capacity to fix, but the value-cost tradeoff of doign so Oct 20 19:26:52 There's always a value-cost tradeoff, even of doing value-cost tradeoffs. Oct 20 19:26:58 and judging that this channel has 410 users, before the platform has even launched, I think that enough people (and more importantly, the right people) knows about it Oct 20 19:27:20 "Just because you *can* edit doesn't mean you *should.*" Oct 20 19:27:27 I think that was Crowe T. Robot Oct 20 19:27:54 Arkenklo: Openmoko had ~700 at one point IIRC Oct 20 19:28:06 Arkenklo: however - that may be a misleading comparison. Oct 20 19:28:13 Arkenklo: err.. this channel has been active since, what, 2005/6? :P Oct 20 19:28:14 "But it does mean that if you *have* to edit, you *can.*" --Me, just now Oct 20 19:28:19 when I got here this was ~200. that was 6 months around. Oct 20 19:28:26 well, a bit more. Oct 20 19:28:30 I dont care if two million Regular Joe's own a maemo-device, I care if a bunch of intelligent developers and contributors do Oct 20 19:28:34 irc logs start in 2006 Oct 20 19:28:56 like I said, who cares about mainstream? Oct 20 19:29:00 Arkenklo: you have to have critical dev mass, and they have to stick around, or the project dies and bitrots. Oct 20 19:29:14 Arkenklo: mainstream has its benefits (network effects) Oct 20 19:29:31 SpeedEvil: In most cases, yes, that is likely true. Oct 20 19:29:33 and its cons. Oct 20 19:29:48 javispedro: absolutely. Now we're back to value-cost tradeoffs. :) Oct 20 19:29:58 oh, new tmo forum Oct 20 19:30:10 I need a pointer device that tracks my eyes Oct 20 19:30:23 then, the wm can see where I'm looking and freaking put a window there when it pops Oct 20 19:30:34 instead of having to drag it across 3k of pixesl Oct 20 19:31:27 3k of pixels equal to 1.5 pixelrows on my screen Oct 20 19:31:49 what is a pixelrow? Oct 20 19:32:13 one row of pixels Oct 20 19:32:18 Solarion: It's like a cornrow, but blockier. Oct 20 19:32:26 heh Oct 20 19:32:34 Arkenklo: ah, gotcha now Oct 20 19:33:18 I have 2 1680x1050 monitors side-by-side Oct 20 19:33:34 so if compiz decides to put a window on the opposite side of the virtual desktop.... Oct 20 19:33:43 I think mpx is now in xorg, isn't it? Oct 20 19:34:03 Solarion: that's 3528k of pixels Oct 20 19:34:25 no, it's 3.528k of pixels Oct 20 19:34:36 I'd figure out what to do with 3528k of pixes, tho Oct 20 19:34:38 hm. I prefer my windows to remain somewhere near their parent windows (new app first window near mouse cursor) Oct 20 19:34:48 well, 3360 pixesl (3.360k) Oct 20 19:34:56 Solarion: in width, perhaps Oct 20 19:35:07 javispedro: yeah, tell compiz that for me, and it'd be a happy workaround Oct 20 19:35:18 well then Oct 20 19:35:24 Arkenklo: I gotcha. I just have to move it horizontally across the screen Oct 20 19:35:27 * GeneralAntilles is currently 5776 pixels wide. Oct 20 19:35:31 i've borked many times around the compiz source Oct 20 19:35:32 so approx 3k px Oct 20 19:35:48 GeneralAntilles: you're pretty hi-res. How long did it take you to render? Oct 20 19:35:49 * javispedro hopes there's not a new compiz version ever for that reason ;) Oct 20 19:35:59 heh Oct 20 19:36:09 compiz sucks, but it has some features I find indispensible Oct 20 19:36:34 Solarion, 12 hours overnight on a dual quad Xeon. Oct 20 19:36:36 what're the new fora? There's brainstorm Oct 20 19:36:38 But that's with GI turned on. Oct 20 19:36:41 GeneralAntilles: taht's not too bad Oct 20 19:37:34 Solarion, i like jamiebennetts monitor setup Oct 20 19:37:35 http://tweetphoto.com/qmbiak4x Oct 20 19:37:43 its like a big book! Oct 20 19:37:53 monitors are fucking awesome Oct 20 19:38:29 blech Oct 20 19:38:29 * Solarion likes horizontal space Oct 20 19:38:53 * SpeedEvil stabs horizontal space. Oct 20 19:38:56 * javispedro finds out "plz give me the codes thx" email in his inbox Oct 20 19:38:57 I want vertical space. Oct 20 19:39:01 though a couple vertically-oriented monitors would be useful for articles Oct 20 19:39:03 Stupid widescreen. Oct 20 19:39:17 javispedro: "codes" == SNES ROMs? Oct 20 19:39:27 I would probably be all-vertical if it weren't for the retarded stand my monitor has Oct 20 19:39:27 * Solarion has 4 terms and 2 emacs buffers per screen Oct 20 19:39:36 erm, frames, not buffers Oct 20 19:39:36 qwerty12_N810: no no, doing his course assignment. Oct 20 19:39:49 though I assign buffer->frame so it translates. :) Oct 20 19:39:50 portrait mode is nice but with very highres screens only Oct 20 19:40:05 1920x1200+ Oct 20 19:40:05 * SpeedEvil sighs. Oct 20 19:40:07 wazd_: it's good for paper-oriented stuff, I think Oct 20 19:40:10 wazd_: like 1200 high? Oct 20 19:40:13 140dpi on desktop monitors would be so nice Oct 20 19:40:22 javispedro: Ah, I thought this was DrNokSnes stuff. But, out of curiosity, how many requests in total have you recieved requesting ROMs? :p Oct 20 19:40:30 there are not many times you require 1920 pxels in width Oct 20 19:40:38 Solarion: it's good, but 1080 width for example will suck balls in the web Oct 20 19:40:38 qwerty12_N810: uncountable. some spanish forum discovered my email. Oct 20 19:40:44 Arkenklo: per window? true. Total across several? more often Oct 20 19:40:55 I struggle to figure out why you'd need 1920 pixels in height Oct 20 19:40:59 * GeneralAntilles likes some wide and some tall: http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/3981783507/ Oct 20 19:41:08 Solarion: reading long pages? Oct 20 19:41:09 Solarion: reading web/.pdfs Oct 20 19:41:21 good point Oct 20 19:41:34 Solarion: I used my screen in portrait a bit - it's nice but 900 width is very uncomfortable Oct 20 19:41:41 javispedro: Ouch... Get their e-mail addresses, make DrNokSnes check to see if they have that address is in Modest, and put up a nice big "GTFO" Oct 20 19:41:44 maybe my fotns are small enough I don't need the vertical space much Oct 20 19:41:49 *in Oct 20 19:41:52 wazd_: yeah Oct 20 19:42:00 fortunately, from a friend's suggestion, now I filter "rom" written in lowercase from unknown addresses into spam folder Oct 20 19:42:00 wazd_, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/8317352.stm Oct 20 19:42:11 my screen can be mounted vertically, but only if it is tilted as far back as is possible Oct 20 19:42:17 the n810 in portrait for PDF articles and books is great, though. Almost perfect Oct 20 19:42:31 so you practically have to be 40 cm above the screen to be able to read anything Oct 20 19:42:35 (See my trainwreck thread in Harmattan for more details and why I shouldn't be seeing/wanting what I see/want. ;) Oct 20 19:42:39 Not that I'm bitter. Oct 20 19:42:48 I'm more of an acidic flavor at the moment Oct 20 19:42:54 lcuk: that's what you have done to the World :D Oct 20 19:42:55 "javispedro, i am megan fox, i would like to have a romp with you. love megan x x x" Oct 20 19:43:03 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Oct 20 19:43:16 lcuk: beware of the viruses Oct 20 19:43:29 silliest reason to drop offline: my router's battery died Oct 20 19:43:29 im thinking more of javispedro getting viruses Oct 20 19:43:31 lcuk: seems legit Oct 20 19:43:33 lcuk: ok, \w*rom\w* Oct 20 19:43:35 :D Oct 20 19:43:45 I say go for it Oct 20 19:43:51 now I know what a n900 does when its battery dies and it's in silent profile with vibration off and volume set to 0: nothing Oct 20 19:43:58 quiet death Oct 20 19:43:59 at least the experience will stay with you forever Oct 20 19:44:08 javispedro: "javispedro, i am dot cotton, from eastenders, i would like to have a romp with you. love megan x x x" Oct 20 19:44:08 and the rash Oct 20 19:44:09 mgedmin_: if the battery is dead it can't do much anyway Oct 20 19:44:22 it could beep with the low battery warning Oct 20 19:44:27 qwerty12_N810, wow, she sent me one of those too Oct 20 19:44:38 "I would like to have a rom with you" would be filtered, but then I'd even prefer it to be filtered. Oct 20 19:44:38 lcuk: Did you accept?! Oct 20 19:44:42 of course Oct 20 19:44:48 Get in there! Oct 20 19:44:52 dunno, or echo 'Low battery'|wall so my ssh session would get a warning at least Oct 20 19:44:55 * timeless_mbp cries Oct 20 19:44:56 lcuk: well, you did tell it to not vibrate or make sounds? Oct 20 19:45:01 ethel was involved too Oct 20 19:45:02 so... i need help w/ perl :) Oct 20 19:45:14 lcuk: That's just sick Oct 20 19:45:15 aieee Oct 20 19:45:16 everybody using perl needs help :) Oct 20 19:45:19 lol @ timeless bringing the topic back Oct 20 19:45:26 lcuk: Have respect for the dead Oct 20 19:45:58 last time I needed to modify a perl program, I mechanically rewrote it to python and then refactored Oct 20 19:45:59 ;;; Oct 20 19:46:14 whats up timeless Oct 20 19:46:15 mgedmin: i'd probably be willing to let you do that to this program Oct 20 19:46:38 lcuk: i took a program which was "modular", and split the initialization task into a thing i'm trying to use as a "thread" Oct 20 19:46:59 ignoring the fact that once it finishes initializing, i won't be able to use the data (i'll cross that bridge when i come to it) Oct 20 19:47:11 the main thread runs for a bit and then tosses up a zenity dialog Oct 20 19:47:36 until it does that, my worker does work, prints output, and sends progress numbers into a Thread::Queue Oct 20 19:47:53 but once my main thread runs its first zenity, the worker seems to stop Oct 20 19:48:07 does it stop waiting to push output to console Oct 20 19:48:22 kinda hard to tell Oct 20 19:48:37 i'm using um... virtualbox-mer w/ the on screen keyboard Oct 20 19:48:43 does it resumt again after you close the zenity dialog Oct 20 19:48:44 and zenity is system on top Oct 20 19:48:59 resume Oct 20 19:49:08 does perl use native threads? Oct 20 19:49:19 perl is fun Oct 20 19:49:28 And yes, I *do* need help. Thanks for asking. :) Oct 20 19:49:37 * javispedro manages to thrash vmware, it's now outputting the vm frambuffer into nearly every surface on my videocard Oct 20 19:49:39 mgedmin: perl 5.10 here Oct 20 19:49:40 phosphor cathode ray tube monitors are coolest invention ever Oct 20 19:49:44 and perl threading is "special" Oct 20 19:49:50 green phosphor cathode ray tube monitors are coolest invention ever Oct 20 19:49:55 basically it says "our threads aren't like any other threads" Oct 20 19:50:03 well, python has its infamous global interpreter lock... Oct 20 19:50:11 timeless, what does your thread initialize, and can it be done by a complete new process call Oct 20 19:50:12 Arkenklo: I think that's probably not; there are things down at a few fractions of a K Oct 20 19:50:23 oh, has the topic changed? Oct 20 19:50:29 lcuk: oh sure Oct 20 19:50:33 Solarion: what? Oct 20 19:50:34 i can replace threading w/ ipc Oct 20 19:51:00 my thread runs msgunfmt on /usr/share/locale/*/LC_MESSAGES/*.mo Oct 20 19:51:11 and digests it into data-structures Oct 20 19:51:26 Arkenklo: Pun on "coolest invention" Oct 20 19:51:31 oh Oct 20 19:51:34 later i need to answer "simple" questions based on user input and those data structures Oct 20 19:51:41 ;) Oct 20 19:51:56 Arkenklo: I want to make a clock. http://www.tps.ac.th/~panya/class/physicsatom/thomson/image/FIRST-CATHODE-RAY-TUBE.jpg - with concealed microcontroller - all brass and mahogony fittings and blown glass. Oct 20 19:52:34 Arkenklo: also see http://brassgoggles.co.uk/blog/200711/toy-oscilloscope-and-more-by-mr-a-smith Oct 20 19:52:58 that is insanely cool Oct 20 19:53:04 very frankenstein Oct 20 19:53:34 and if you touch it it implodes and showers you in glass Oct 20 19:53:48 hm? Oct 20 19:54:04 timeless, did you say whether it starts running again after the zenity dialogs are closed Oct 20 19:54:13 kinda hard Oct 20 19:54:23 when the zenity dialog closes, the program quits :) Oct 20 19:54:28 I have a tiny old nokia monitor, I'll plug it in and make it run an all-green terminal just to look at it Oct 20 19:54:32 brb Oct 20 19:54:37 or it goes to the point where it wants to wait for the thing to be done Oct 20 19:54:47 Arkenklo: But it's cool enough that that's OK. Oct 20 19:55:16 SpeedEvil: indeed Oct 20 19:56:07 timeless_mbp: You know what would be awesome? If you put "X-App-Loading-Image=none" in your desktop file Oct 20 19:56:22 what's that do? Oct 20 19:56:59 has there been any work in emulating the psp <-> ps3 protocol? Oct 20 19:57:02 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=351746 are they freaking betting karma? Oct 20 19:57:26 DICK Oct 20 19:57:41 i put the monitor on top of my arduino D: Oct 20 19:57:43 timeless_mbp: Shows the menu background instead. Although, in this case, it shows the desktop and zenity over it instead... Oct 20 19:58:02 javispedro: lol Oct 20 19:58:34 +when loading Oct 20 19:59:01 ok, 'fixed" Oct 20 19:59:07 although that doesn't really help much Oct 20 19:59:39 * timeless_mbp should probably just switch this to have two processes Oct 20 19:59:53 one that does the data munching and one that does the UI Oct 20 20:00:01 zerojay, had to be your knight in shining armour Oct 20 20:00:01 that's the unixy way Oct 20 20:06:09 ipc via commandline requires pipe3 Oct 20 20:06:28 Is extras-assistant working atm? Oct 20 20:06:56 Ha. No, but ssh/dput is. Oct 20 20:06:58 FFS. Oct 20 20:07:11 nice Oct 20 20:07:17 timeless_mbp: do you need bidirectional communication between the two? Oct 20 20:07:20 Jaffa: SSH working? Oct 20 20:07:27 This is a first for maemo.org... Oct 20 20:07:29 Jaffa, see the cloak proposal? Oct 20 20:07:32 mgedmin_: well, i need to send commands from one to the other Oct 20 20:07:36 daaaamn, now I need to figure out how to decorate celling in my aps Oct 20 20:07:46 timeless_mbp: dbus! Oct 20 20:07:47 and the other needs to be able to send progress back to the first Oct 20 20:07:47 * mgedmin_ hides Oct 20 20:08:11 wazd_: http://englishrussia.com/?p=1410 Oct 20 20:08:13 anyone fammiliar with some interesting light solutions? :) Oct 20 20:08:29 * timeless_mbp summons an assassin and orders it to track mgedmin_ across the face of the earth and execute him Oct 20 20:08:30 why would the n900 see a network as wep when really it's wpa-psk? Oct 20 20:09:02 i've seen that happen with low signla Oct 20 20:09:06 wazd_: c'mon, you know that's interesting... Oct 20 20:09:08 dbus hasn't been replaced by qcop? :) Oct 20 20:09:19 javispedro, not a low signal at all, the router is a few meters away Oct 20 20:09:20 qwerty12_N810: jeez :) Oct 20 20:09:26 "qcop" uses dbus iirc. Oct 20 20:09:36 qwerty12_N810: btw, I hate when someone replaces R with "Ya" :) Oct 20 20:09:53 ah, qcop. Oct 20 20:10:09 qwerty12_N810: that's the most dumb way to tell somebody that you're fammiliar with russian alphabet :) Oct 20 20:10:15 On n900 camera - has anyone experimented with long shutter times? Oct 20 20:10:30 i dunno, i was curious about that kinda stuff myself Oct 20 20:10:48 wazd_: That's the thing: I'm not! :) Oct 20 20:11:01 like doing scheduled image capture and stringing together something timelapsed Oct 20 20:11:10 so... Oct 20 20:11:13 or even in a single image Oct 20 20:11:17 i don't think ipc really makes life easier for me Oct 20 20:11:41 qwerty12_N810: Yup! Shocking, isn't it? Oct 20 20:12:10 GeneralAntilles: Yes. No real thoughts beyond that the karma threshold seems high; agree with 500. Final section seems less clear/useful Oct 20 20:12:19 GeneralAntilles: Start small & grow? Oct 20 20:12:36 Jaffa: I've switched to the Assistant solely because dput always rejects me. But that may be just due to a dodgy dput.cf... :) Oct 20 20:13:09 Jaffa, not sure about the Nokian guidelines as many may wish to only include certain information. Oct 20 20:13:10 I've switched to assistant to be able to upload once and send to all three autobuilders. Oct 20 20:13:24 surely you mean qcob, if you meant to spell dcop upside-down Oct 20 20:13:27 qwerty12_N810: No, it's not dput.cf - it's just shit ;-) Oct 20 20:13:42 Heh, true Oct 20 20:13:52 Right. Telly time whilst Hermes 0.1.0 builds (or doesn't) Oct 20 20:14:05 Oh, no. It's built. Cool. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 20:16:14 2009