**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 10 16:04:06 2009
Nov 10 16:04:28 <dmj726> So apparently they make n900s out of crazy people.
Nov 10 16:04:33 <dmj726> n900 is people
Nov 10 16:04:50 <Stskeeps> dmj726++
Nov 10 16:04:53 <VDVsx> mgedmin, yes, lol
Nov 10 16:05:04 <javispedro> :)
Nov 10 16:06:06 <javispedro> insane people infected with some random spacetime distorting virus
Nov 10 16:06:46 <RST38h> javis: It is the Tentacled One and his diet of human brains
Nov 10 16:07:08 <javispedro> ok, I want more perverted ads like this one
Nov 10 16:07:12 <javispedro> the next one we need more gore
Nov 10 16:07:13 <RST38h> The victims are still alive, but their skulls are empty, funny, isn't it? =)
Nov 10 16:07:13 <dmj726> It's known as penguinitis and it has an unfortunate tendency to infect open source programmers.
Nov 10 16:07:27 <javispedro> I hope it features the Umbrella corp logo
Nov 10 16:07:28 <Stskeeps> and cause penguins to shoot lasers
Nov 10 16:08:17 <javispedro> lol
Nov 10 16:08:21 <javispedro> "Nokia drives you mad"
Nov 10 16:08:23 <javispedro> :)
Nov 10 16:08:35 <Stskeeps> penguinbait: council member attention needed in #maemo-meeting
Nov 10 16:09:06 <Suurorca> h, nice Idea. I just might have to create an umbrella bootvideo for it ;D
Nov 10 16:10:39 <Ceron^> The Nokia N900 will be available in retail stores in November with an estimated retail price of EUR 500, excluding sales taxes and subsidies.
Nov 10 16:10:49 <Ceron^> 100 euro taxes :(
Nov 10 16:11:19 <mikhas> -500 euro subsidies, though
Nov 10 16:11:40 <mikhas> that's what I expect, at least =)
Nov 10 16:12:07 <vesa> lardman: location problem fixed. missing extern "C" around the location includes
Nov 10 16:12:11 <javispedro> "I guess it had to happen eventually. Some Emos have found work in the advertising trades, and here's their idea of branding and product promotion. God help us when they get elected to public office..." today I find Engadget's comments quite entertaining... maybe because of meds :)
Nov 10 16:12:27 <vesa> i hear this might be what you might call a 'shortcoming' of the headers
Nov 10 16:12:38 <vesa> we use a c++ compiler and not c...
Nov 10 16:12:44 <dmj726> I suspect that this ad may only appeal to people who already like the n900
Nov 10 16:12:58 <lardman> vesa: cool
Nov 10 16:13:32 <mgedmin> vesa, 'shortcoming' is arguable; the API is for C, not for C++
Nov 10 16:13:57 <vesa> well that's true, but it's quite a simple fix and so far everything else works with c++
Nov 10 16:14:01 <mgedmin> although I do see your point of view
Nov 10 16:14:50 <nomis> mhm, I suspect that I just have to live with a QWERTY-keyboard when using the discounted devices program, right?
Nov 10 16:15:04 <Stskeeps> put a label on it and select other hw keyboard type?
Nov 10 16:15:04 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 10 16:15:57 <javispedro> or try to create a bastardized layout where at least the symbols match
Nov 10 16:16:01 <javispedro> which is what I plan to do
Nov 10 16:16:10 <nomis> mhm.
Nov 10 16:16:19 <javispedro> (match with what's printed on the device, I mean)
Nov 10 16:22:07 <wazd> qwerty12: ok, I've downloaded new Transmission look from the Astral DB, now I need to draw it :)
Nov 10 16:22:40 <qwerty12> Cool, thank you :)
Nov 10 16:23:39 <VDVsx> Jaffa, humm, your pymaemo test is interesting, did you tried to do any performance tests ?
Nov 10 16:23:51 <Jaffa> VDVsx: Not properly, no
Nov 10 16:24:02 <Jaffa> Just gut feel
Nov 10 16:24:38 <VDVsx> runtime performance tests should be easy to do ;)
Nov 10 16:24:57 <lizardo> Jaffa: I'll answer you there on the list, for the records :)
Nov 10 16:27:20 <crashanddie> Best algorithm to test N900 performance: every 10ns, launch a new thread that generates 50 md5sums of microtime * Integer.parse(substr(/dev/random, 0, 10)) (preferably in Java)
Nov 10 16:27:21 <mgedmin> Jaffa, did you test that bind-mounting init script on the device?
Nov 10 16:27:32 <mgedmin> because I'm baffled now: do init.d scripts work or not?
Nov 10 16:27:39 <Andy80> hi all
Nov 10 16:27:43 <mgedmin> they kinda should, but for avahi-daemon they don't
Nov 10 16:28:50 <Jaffa> mgedmin: Yes, I did test it on device.
Nov 10 16:28:52 <wazd> wooo, modern warfare 2 is out!
Nov 10 16:29:09 <Jaffa> mgedmin: rc2.d?
Nov 10 16:29:11 <mgedmin> btw there's some kind of syntax for doing bind mounts straight from /etc/fstab, but I never remember it
Nov 10 16:29:37 <Jaffa> mgedmin: Oh, cool
Nov 10 16:29:39 <javispedro> /device /mount/point auto bind
Nov 10 16:29:46 <mgedmin> $ grep -v ^# /etc/rc2.d/S50avahi-daemon |head
Nov 10 16:29:50 <mgedmin> touch /tmp/avahi-daemon-init.d-script-was-run
Nov 10 16:29:55 <mgedmin> after boot I look in /tmp, and nothing
Nov 10 16:29:56 <javispedro> even though I don't know if busybox's mount -a accepts it
Nov 10 16:33:18 <Jaffa> mgedmin: I'll look closer this evening. Perhaps I've played tricks on myself
Nov 10 16:33:50 <mgedmin> I'm pretty sure _I_ missed something, but so far I haven't figured out what
Nov 10 16:34:01 <mgedmin> some run-rc.d variants may be unhappy with dashes in filenames maybe
Nov 10 16:34:12 <Jaffa> Mebbe.
Nov 10 16:34:18 <Jaffa> Or something upstarty needs to be prodded?
Nov 10 16:34:23 <mgedmin> S20osso-applet-display disagrees
Nov 10 16:34:39 <mgedmin> it's possible the whole /etc/init.d is a big fat decoy
Nov 10 16:35:02 * Jaffa goes to get Stockholm's #1 bus from Stora Essingen to, err, best check.
Nov 10 16:35:04 <mgedmin> but /etc/event.d/rcS says "This task runs the old sysv-rc startup scripts."
Nov 10 16:36:09 <mgedmin> ha!
Nov 10 16:36:23 <mgedmin> /etc/init.d/rcS ignores .d and does everything manually
Nov 10 16:38:57 <Jaffa> mgedmin: Doh!
Nov 10 16:39:07 <Jaffa> mgedmin: So, we need to put something in /etc/event.d
Nov 10 16:39:45 <mgedmin> who maintains avahi-daemon?
Nov 10 16:40:25 <mgedmin> I don't think Utopia Maintenance Team <pkg-utopia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org> will be happy to get maemo-specific queries
Nov 10 16:41:02 <mgedmin> and thanks to docpurge I can't look at /usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon/changelog.Debian.gz
Nov 10 16:41:44 <qwerty12> mgedmin: The version in extras-devel was uploaded by "jhs_s", if that is any help...
Nov 10 16:41:48 <greenfly> wow. I didn't realize maemo5 used so much upstart
Nov 10 16:42:16 <mgedmin> /etc/event.d/sshd is a nice role model
Nov 10 16:42:47 <mgedmin> the bits with mkdir /var/ ought to be included in the screen package
Nov 10 16:42:55 <greenfly> but yeah, I don't see the old backwards-compatible sysV upstart scripts in /etc/event.d
Nov 10 16:43:21 <greenfly> other than rcS, which just starts one shell script
Nov 10 16:43:42 <greenfly> so it looks like everyone will have to use upstart
Nov 10 16:45:51 <greenfly> which honestly, this is a good platform to make that shift
Nov 10 16:46:31 <mgedmin> cutting edge tech
Nov 10 16:46:36 <javispedro> well.
Nov 10 16:46:44 <mgedmin> well, not really
Nov 10 16:46:46 <javispedro> does ssh only start up when net is up or something like that?
Nov 10 16:46:48 <mgedmin> upstart 0.3.8-56+0m5
Nov 10 16:46:51 <mgedmin> ancient!
Nov 10 16:47:01 <mgedmin> karmic comes with 0.6.3-10
Nov 10 16:47:31 <greenfly> heh, yeah upstart came into play with Ubuntu 6.10 IIRC but most people didn't realize it was there
Nov 10 16:47:38 <mgedmin> /etc/event.d is obsolete and no longer supported, iirc, upstart now uses a different config syntax and files in /etc/init/*.conf
Nov 10 16:47:53 <greenfly> since all it really managed (besides PID 1) was ttys, and running sysinit for different runlevels
Nov 10 16:48:52 <greenfly> to make it more confusing there's the /etc/event.replace.d
Nov 10 16:50:29 <mgedmin> problem is: now I can't copy and paste upstart config files from my laptop to my n900
Nov 10 16:50:48 <greenfly> ahh, you have to backport them to the old syntax?
Nov 10 16:50:54 <mgedmin> yes
Nov 10 16:50:58 <greenfly> :/
Nov 10 16:50:59 <mgedmin> and there are semantic differences too
Nov 10 16:51:17 <mgedmin> e.g. on the n900 /etc/event.d/dbus has "exec /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork"
Nov 10 16:51:28 <mgedmin> on karmic /etc/init/dbus.conf has "exec dbus-daemon --system --fork"
Nov 10 16:51:42 <mgedmin> ah, there's also "expect fork"
Nov 10 16:51:51 <mgedmin> interesting
Nov 10 17:10:14 * javispedro ponders the DDP
Nov 10 17:10:34 * mgedmin wonders about the taxes and duties
Nov 10 17:11:39 <javispedro> that too.
Nov 10 17:13:30 <javispedro> do they ship from finland?
Nov 10 17:18:07 * mgedmin just reproduced 6004
Nov 10 17:18:15 <javispedro> bug #6004
Nov 10 17:18:16 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable
Nov 10 17:18:20 <mgedmin> when they ship and how long they travel is another very good question
Nov 10 17:18:38 <mgedmin> would be fun if the n900 arrived home before I did
Nov 10 17:18:51 <javispedro> the site says "3 bussines days"
Nov 10 17:19:11 <javispedro> er.. don't mind the typo
Nov 10 17:19:14 <mgedmin> the forum nokia estore?
Nov 10 17:19:19 <javispedro> mgedmin: yep
Nov 10 17:19:30 <mgedmin> I didn't notice
Nov 10 17:19:37 * javispedro looks
Nov 10 17:19:57 <javispedro> "Usually ships within three business days."
Nov 10 17:20:58 <mgedmin> "usually" is a good word
Nov 10 17:21:10 <mgedmin> how often do they ship just-released n900s?
Nov 10 17:21:35 <javispedro> I'd assume it's copied and pasted from all the other "device developers" items we don't have access to.
Nov 10 17:24:34 <mgedmin> I assume it means "we will try to ship within three days, but if we can't, don't go back complaining that we promised"
Nov 10 17:24:39 <wazd> javispedro: hah, they can't even ship me an e-mail so I wouldn't expect anything :D
Nov 10 17:25:03 * mgedmin always found the phrase "shiping an email" very funny
Nov 10 17:25:28 <mgedmin> mental picture always goes to an ocean liner carrying a cardboard box with a printout of an email inside
Nov 10 17:26:00 <greenfly> you need an ocean liner because the rest of it is full of other cardboard boxes full of printouts of spam :)
Nov 10 17:26:06 <lcuk> i always see a little dinghy with an overworked grunt rowing slowly across the pacific
Nov 10 17:26:14 <javispedro> mgedmin: well, the alternative to putting "usually" is adding a load of "standard disclaimers"
Nov 10 17:26:30 <mgedmin> what do they use for shipping, anyway?
Nov 10 17:26:32 <javispedro> wazd: yeah, that scaries me.
Nov 10 17:26:33 <mgedmin> the post office?
Nov 10 17:26:35 <javispedro> mgedmin: DHL
Nov 10 17:28:55 <javispedro> btw
Nov 10 17:29:03 <javispedro> Since I'm not a company
Nov 10 17:29:13 <javispedro> how I am supposed to "agree" to the NDA
Nov 10 17:34:22 <mgedmin> without reading it, probably
Nov 10 17:34:34 <javispedro> actually mentioning it is forbidden too.
Nov 10 17:34:42 <mgedmin> mentioning what?
Nov 10 17:35:13 <ShadowJK> lol
Nov 10 17:35:48 <javispedro> actually, the entire NDA is rather moot for mortals like me.
Nov 10 17:54:21 <LurkerXXX_> The N900 is finally shipping. :)
Nov 10 17:55:37 <GiantTalkingCow> Yep, heard about it a few hours ago. I figure I'll try one out sometime this week, then decide whether or not to get it. I'm mostly concerned about the keyboard and its performance.
Nov 10 17:56:13 <mgedmin> compared to a laptop, both suck
Nov 10 17:56:17 <mgedmin> compared to a n810, both are stellar
Nov 10 17:57:20 <cosmo_> it can't say it's better than n810's.. feels pretty same
Nov 10 17:57:30 <mgedmin> sudo dpkg -i procps*.deb -- good idea, bad idea, Very Bad Idea ?
Nov 10 17:57:49 <mgedmin> wish I could test apt-get, but I'm too lazy to look up how to set up an apt repo on the filesystem
Nov 10 17:58:11 <mgedmin> uploading procps to extras-devel blindly: good idea, bad idea, treasonous shoot-on-sight idea?
Nov 10 17:58:44 <mgedmin> worst thing that could happen: somebody installs it and removes busybox plus a few hundred meg of absolutely essential system packages, device is bricked
Nov 10 17:59:43 <zaheerm> mgedmin, flasher will fix it :)
Nov 10 17:59:55 <mgedmin> as soon as the official image appears somewhere
Nov 10 17:59:58 <mgedmin> anybody seen an image?
Nov 10 18:00:00 <mgedmin> yeah, me neither
Nov 10 18:00:09 <zaheerm> maybe it is on some torrent by now ;)
Nov 10 18:00:39 <mgedmin> bugs.maemo.org doesn't have a version for it either
Nov 10 18:00:51 <mgedmin> maybe they're shipping OS-less N900s
Nov 10 18:00:56 <toggles_w> hmm.. amazon claim they can deliver it tomorrow..
Nov 10 18:01:14 <LurkerXXX_> somehow I doubt that
Nov 10 18:01:27 <toggles_w> yeah, me too
Nov 10 18:01:27 <ShadowJK> procps on N8x0 makes things go kaboom iirc
Nov 10 18:01:40 <LurkerXXX_> but they should be able to deliver within a couple more days.
Nov 10 18:01:56 <javispedro> mgedmin: don't upload logic bombs to extras-devel please
Nov 10 18:01:56 <toggles_w> newegg says 14/11 so yeah, should be soon
Nov 10 18:02:26 <javispedro> it still makes me sad when people say "extras-devel is dangerous because there's newer versions of libs that won't go into -stable"
Nov 10 18:02:30 <mgedmin> javispedro, I'm currently trying to determine whether it's a logic bomb or not
Nov 10 18:02:36 <mgedmin> without exploding my n900
Nov 10 18:02:40 <mgedmin> in the process
Nov 10 18:02:45 <mgedmin> hey, I've got a repo at mg.pov.lt/770!
Nov 10 18:02:54 <mgedmin> for precisely this kind of private minefield reasons
Nov 10 18:03:19 * javispedro can't imagine which qa testing plan needs to upload the candidate bombs to a online repo
Nov 10 18:03:50 <ShadowJK> mgedmin, I think you need to compile it so that the utilities get an extra prefix, like for example "real", so that top becomes realtop, etc, and then the package dependencies, provides and conflicts need to be fixed up...
Nov 10 18:07:31 <mgedmin> aaugh
Nov 10 18:07:38 <mgedmin> how do I open a URL from the command line?
Nov 10 18:07:42 <mgedmin> magic dbus message?
Nov 10 18:07:56 <mgedmin> oh, browser --url
Nov 10 18:11:39 <mikkov__> Nokia Software Updater has a new firmware
Nov 10 18:12:26 <mgedmin> hmmm
Nov 10 18:12:30 <mgedmin> is that the windows thing?
Nov 10 18:12:32 <Stskeeps> more interestingly, does tablets-dev.nokia.com? :P
Nov 10 18:12:51 <mgedmin> Stskeeps, xchat doesn't make urls clickable when you omit the http://
Nov 10 18:13:16 <mikkov__> it's the windows thing, yes
Nov 10 18:13:18 <qwerty12> mikkov_: Thanks for the heads up. Do you know if it tries to flash the eMMC?
Nov 10 18:13:42 <mikkov__> file size is 161.4 MB
Nov 10 18:13:50 <mikkov__> installing it now, let's see
Nov 10 18:14:18 <mikkov__> didn't read all warnings :)
Nov 10 18:14:21 * mgedmin riots
Nov 10 18:14:24 <zaheerm> mikkov_, :)
Nov 10 18:14:32 <zaheerm> mikkov_, you are our guinea pig
Nov 10 18:14:39 <mgedmin> oh, hey, any ideas whether the new firmware will be available via SSU?
Nov 10 18:14:40 <qwerty12> Doesn't sound like it: The RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.40-3.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin file I have is 235MB
Nov 10 18:15:14 <mgedmin> poor compression?
Nov 10 18:15:26 <qwerty12> RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-10_PR_LEGACY_TRUE_ARM.bin is 161MB
Nov 10 18:15:35 <mikkov__> version is 1.2009.41.11
Nov 10 18:15:37 <qwerty12> So I guess the eMMC doesn't get flashed, which is good news for me :)
Nov 10 18:15:37 <mgedmin> that's the amsterdam one, right?
Nov 10 18:15:40 <mikkov__> version is 1.2009.42.11
Nov 10 18:15:53 <zaheerm> mikkov_, interesting...
Nov 10 18:16:03 <mgedmin> mikkov_, you anticipated my question
Nov 10 18:16:22 <mgedmin> woohoo, nice!
Nov 10 18:16:24 <mgedmin> maybe
Nov 10 18:16:26 <mikkov__> magic :)
Nov 10 18:16:28 <mgedmin> yes, nice!
Nov 10 18:16:43 <mgedmin> sudo apt-get install procps: The following packages will be REMOVED: busybox-symlinks-procps
Nov 10 18:16:47 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: the eMMC is regional
Nov 10 18:16:50 <mgedmin> they made a package with nothing but symlinks
Nov 10 18:16:52 <timeless_mbp> the US image is 1.6G iirc
Nov 10 18:16:53 <qwerty12> mikkov_: I'll update my device tommorow if your device doesn't get killed today :p
Nov 10 18:17:02 <mikkov__> :P
Nov 10 18:17:09 <timeless_mbp> other images are considerably smaller
Nov 10 18:17:09 <qwerty12> *tomorrow
Nov 10 18:17:29 <timeless_mbp> btw, have people plugged their n900's into normal computers?
Nov 10 18:17:45 <mgedmin> okay, the BAD thing about my procps is that it only ships kill and ps
Nov 10 18:17:54 <javispedro> "normal computers" as in blessed by gates?
Nov 10 18:17:55 <mgedmin> where's uptime, pkill, watch, free, pgrep, top?
Nov 10 18:18:09 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: OS X, Windows, or Ubuntu 9.04+
Nov 10 18:18:14 <mgedmin> ah, in /usr/bin, where they belong
Nov 10 18:18:17 <mgedmin> false alarm
Nov 10 18:18:35 <mgedmin> timeless_mbp, ubuntu 9.10
Nov 10 18:18:42 <greenfly> timeless_mbp: I've connected it to an ubuntu 9.10 machine
Nov 10 18:18:44 <mgedmin> any specific questions?
Nov 10 18:18:49 <mgedmin> I've got it plugged it right now
Nov 10 18:18:51 <timeless_mbp> what do you see on the desktop and do you like it?
Nov 10 18:19:02 <mgedmin> hm, I asked it not to mount
Nov 10 18:19:07 <timeless_mbp> ...
Nov 10 18:19:11 <greenfly> if you tell it mass storage mode the photo manager will fire up
Nov 10 18:19:16 <mgedmin> I remember seeing a cellphone icon
Nov 10 18:19:22 <timeless_mbp> did you like it?
Nov 10 18:19:34 <mgedmin> it was a very cellphone'y cellphone
Nov 10 18:19:38 <greenfly> In my case I didn't want to upload any photos
Nov 10 18:19:48 <greenfly> so it sorta gets in the way, but I can always turn that off
Nov 10 18:19:53 <mgedmin> I'd rather have an icon that looks like a n900
Nov 10 18:19:56 <timeless_mbp> the photo manager bit isn't my fault
Nov 10 18:19:59 <mgedmin> which ought to be possible
Nov 10 18:20:03 <timeless_mbp> wait, what!?
Nov 10 18:20:05 <greenfly> yeah, understood
Nov 10 18:20:06 <timeless_mbp> screenshot please
Nov 10 18:20:09 <timeless_mbp> because well...
Nov 10 18:20:14 <timeless_mbp> screenshot first, story later
Nov 10 18:20:21 <mgedmin> screenshot of what?
Nov 10 18:20:35 <timeless_mbp> the picture you see on the desktop
Nov 10 18:20:40 * timeless_mbp grumbles
Nov 10 18:20:42 * timeless_mbp will probably kill someone
Nov 10 18:20:52 * timeless_mbp worked *very* hard on that thing
Nov 10 18:20:58 <timeless_mbp> it was supposed to be a very shiny n900 icon
Nov 10 18:21:04 <timeless_mbp> and they had a month to integrate it
Nov 10 18:21:05 <mikkov__> OK, this Software Updater is crap
Nov 10 18:21:17 <timeless_mbp> mikkov_: what happened?
Nov 10 18:21:20 <zaheerm> mikkov_, it bricked the phone?
Nov 10 18:21:22 <qwerty12> timeless_mbp: That N900 icons shows up on the Windows running computers I've connected my N900 to
Nov 10 18:21:33 <mikkov__> it crashed when it was supposed to start flashing'
Nov 10 18:21:35 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12: screenshot please
Nov 10 18:21:36 <mgedmin> timeless_mbp, you'll kill somebody, since now I see a generic "document" icon
Nov 10 18:21:38 <timeless_mbp> there were two rounds of a picture
Nov 10 18:21:47 <mgedmin> maybe what I remember was with ubuntu 9.04 before I upgraded
Nov 10 18:22:15 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: there's a .n900.ico on the root of the volume
Nov 10 18:22:18 <lardman> oh great debian packagers, are you here?
Nov 10 18:22:20 <qwerty12> timeless_mbp: sec
Nov 10 18:22:27 <timeless_mbp> open it and see if it gives a shiny thing or a black thing
Nov 10 18:22:29 <mgedmin> timeless_mbp, http://mg.pov.lt/n900-icon-not-worky.png
Nov 10 18:22:53 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: is that a 770 serving it?
Nov 10 18:23:10 <mgedmin> nah, office adsl line with puny uplink
Nov 10 18:23:11 <zaheerm> more like an s40 device
Nov 10 18:23:19 <mikkov__> let's see if I can resurrect this thing
Nov 10 18:23:27 <sp3000> how about progressive png ;)
Nov 10 18:23:38 <timeless_mbp> or icon at top of desktop...
Nov 10 18:24:10 * javispedro contributes to overloaded mgedmin's adsl line
Nov 10 18:24:23 <zaheerm> #maemo effect?
Nov 10 18:24:25 <mgedmin> 2-line paste flood warning!
Nov 10 18:24:27 <mgedmin> mg@platonas:/media/Nokia N900 $ sha1sum .n900.ico
Nov 10 18:24:27 <mgedmin> dbd690b709a35aaa7136144ad44439041d633110  .n900.ico
Nov 10 18:24:38 <javispedro> since when gnome cares about .ico files?
Nov 10 18:24:39 <mgedmin> timeless_mbp, all my viewers say my .n900.ico is broken or invalid
Nov 10 18:24:39 <luke-jr> mgedmin: you just violated the copyright terms on that icon!
Nov 10 18:24:41 * qwerty12 bans mgedmin 
Nov 10 18:24:44 <sp3000> doesn't the warning make it 3?
Nov 10 18:25:01 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: fax header page counts have always been fun
Nov 10 18:25:21 <timeless_mbp> btw, the gnome message text is buggy
Nov 10 18:25:25 <timeless_mbp> we're debating filing bugs
Nov 10 18:25:28 <timeless_mbp> 'what' => 'the
Nov 10 18:25:36 <timeless_mbp> [f]
Nov 10 18:25:37 <luke-jr> lol
Nov 10 18:25:49 <mgedmin> ooh, gimp can open it and shows a bunch of pretty images
Nov 10 18:26:01 <javispedro> that'd be my guess.
Nov 10 18:26:03 <mgedmin> I'd say gnome/ubuntu bug
Nov 10 18:26:09 <javispedro> the N900.ico is set through an autorun.inf file
Nov 10 18:26:10 <javispedro> isn't it?
Nov 10 18:26:10 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: you need a newer less lame version of nautilus or something
Nov 10 18:26:22 <timeless_mbp> if the images are very shiny, then it's just your lame nautilus
Nov 10 18:26:30 <mgedmin> [autorun]
Nov 10 18:26:30 <mgedmin> icon=.n900.ico
Nov 10 18:26:31 <lardman> does anyone know how to replace dh_quilt_unpatch for our version of dh?
Nov 10 18:26:47 <javispedro> and when did someone start parsing autorun.inf in nautilus?
Nov 10 18:26:51 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: ok... so, as long as it's mostly shiny on osx+windows
Nov 10 18:26:53 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: ages ago
Nov 10 18:27:03 <javispedro> oh, I missed the big flamewar then :(
Nov 10 18:27:05 <timeless_mbp> you can search for bugs i've filed on it to see references to the code
Nov 10 18:27:19 <timeless_mbp> we had a mini flamewar internally when someone saw my first draft
Nov 10 18:27:43 <timeless_mbp> sp3000 + myself were like "if gnome didn't want to do this, then it wouldn't have added support for it, DUH"
Nov 10 18:28:43 <dmj726> what's a good rss reader for n900?
Nov 10 18:28:53 * javispedro finds out nautilus will actually run autorun.sh files on cdroms
Nov 10 18:28:57 <greenfly> doesn't it come with one?
Nov 10 18:29:18 <luke-jr> lol
Nov 10 18:29:50 <qwerty12> timeless_mbp: My battery is low and the N900 is refusing to export MyDocs over USB...
Nov 10 18:29:58 <mgedmin> I try to use google reader mobile version, with great patience and much unhappiness
Nov 10 18:30:16 <greenfly> yeah google reader on the n900 isn't exactly there yet
Nov 10 18:30:34 <dmj726> so it does
Nov 10 18:30:34 <timeless_mbp> dmj726: reader.google.com
Nov 10 18:30:39 <timeless_mbp>  /m
Nov 10 18:30:42 <timeless_mbp> or /x
Nov 10 18:30:53 <javispedro> http://www.ethek.com/wp-content/uploads/windows7-device-stage-1.png
Nov 10 18:30:58 <greenfly> you /should/ be able to load the full version, and you can, but the UI pops up the URL bar every time it refreshes
Nov 10 18:31:02 <dmj726> the rss reader is google reader or something else?
Nov 10 18:31:05 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: what is that?
Nov 10 18:31:21 <timeless_mbp> dmj726: we use liverea or something
Nov 10 18:31:23 * mgedmin didn't even try the bundled rss reader, maybe /he should
Nov 10 18:31:47 * dmj726 has just discovered evolution-rss and is liking it.
Nov 10 18:31:49 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: i wouldn't bother :)
Nov 10 18:31:56 <mgedmin> here goes nothing: sudo apt-get install procps
Nov 10 18:32:35 <mgedmin> oh, ubuntu...
Nov 10 18:32:40 <timeless_mbp> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595027
Nov 10 18:32:41 <povbot> Bug 595027: was not found.
Nov 10 18:32:47 <mgedmin> right-clicking on the n900 gives me choices: eject, unmount, and safely remove drive
Nov 10 18:32:49 <timeless_mbp> points to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154549
Nov 10 18:32:50 <povbot> Bug 154549: was not found.
Nov 10 18:32:51 <mgedmin> WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE???
Nov 10 18:32:59 <timeless_mbp> unmount doesn't eject
Nov 10 18:33:07 <mgedmin> povbot, stupid, that was a gnome bugzilla, not the maemo bugzilla
Nov 10 18:33:08 <povbot> mgedmin: Error: "stupid," is not a valid command.
Nov 10 18:33:09 <timeless_mbp> eject unmounts and then tells usb "i stopped using you"
Nov 10 18:33:09 <javispedro> timeless: one of those new paintjob features in windows 7, "device stage".
Nov 10 18:33:18 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: do you have an n900?
Nov 10 18:33:24 <mgedmin> timeless_mbp, and safely remove?
Nov 10 18:33:35 <javispedro> timeless: no, that's a microsoft mockup
Nov 10 18:33:35 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: from a power perspective, unmounting doesn't stop using the service
Nov 10 18:33:37 <mgedmin> three different options are at least one too much
Nov 10 18:33:45 <timeless_mbp> so the device still has 500mA power
Nov 10 18:34:01 <timeless_mbp> i'm not actually sure how eject and safely remove differ
Nov 10 18:34:03 <timeless_mbp> i could be wrong
Nov 10 18:34:07 <timeless_mbp> you probably usually want safely remove
Nov 10 18:34:13 <timeless_mbp> perhaps my description is for that
Nov 10 18:34:29 <timeless_mbp> conceptually...
Nov 10 18:34:40 <timeless_mbp> eject should work on the microSD that's in the back
Nov 10 18:34:51 <timeless_mbp> such that if you eject, you should be able to safely remove the back cover
Nov 10 18:34:55 <timeless_mbp> swap microSDs
Nov 10 18:35:00 <timeless_mbp> restore the back cover
Nov 10 18:35:08 <timeless_mbp> and somehow have it see the new microSD card
Nov 10 18:35:12 <mgedmin> hmm
Nov 10 18:35:13 <timeless_mbp> safely remove should *not* do that
Nov 10 18:35:22 <timeless_mbp> since it would depower the device and stop using the service
Nov 10 18:35:26 <timeless_mbp> unmount shouldn't either
Nov 10 18:35:33 <timeless_mbp> because it wouldn't tell the device that it unmounted
Nov 10 18:35:45 <timeless_mbp> unmount is basically an OS impl detail that isn't exposed via the USB protocol
Nov 10 18:35:49 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, I'm REALLY not impressed by Forum Nokia.
Nov 10 18:36:03 <timeless_mbp> anyway, that would be the technical explanation of what those things *should* do
Nov 10 18:36:08 <timeless_mbp> no idea what they actually *do* do
Nov 10 18:36:17 <timeless_mbp> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154549
Nov 10 18:36:18 <ShadowJK> I think some windows people once complained that linux "Safely Remove" didn't cut power to the USB device
Nov 10 18:36:18 <povbot> Bug 154549: was not found.
Nov 10 18:36:24 * timeless_mbp kicks povbot 
Nov 10 18:36:26 <mgedmin> well, after doing Eject the icon disappears from the desktop
Nov 10 18:36:35 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: try pulling the usb plug
Nov 10 18:36:41 <mgedmin> after that when you're trying to safely remove from Computer, you get this nice error
Nov 10 18:36:42 <timeless_mbp> if the device whines "you didn't safely remove"
Nov 10 18:36:47 <mgedmin> Error SYNCHRONIZE CACHE for /dev/sdb: Success sense buffer empty; Error STOP UNIT for /dev/sdb: No such file or directory
Nov 10 18:36:57 * timeless_mbp rotfl
Nov 10 18:37:05 <mgedmin> I was just wondering if it were possible to kick it into "charging-only" mode
Nov 10 18:37:10 <mgedmin> so I could access my files
Nov 10 18:37:13 <mgedmin> from the n900
Nov 10 18:37:17 <timeless_mbp> so...
Nov 10 18:37:19 <mgedmin> unplug & replug will work
Nov 10 18:37:21 <timeless_mbp> you never want to use charging only
Nov 10 18:37:26 <mgedmin> I don't?
Nov 10 18:37:26 <timeless_mbp> that's 100mA
Nov 10 18:37:30 <timeless_mbp> you always want PC Suite
Nov 10 18:37:36 <mgedmin> this is very very interesting
Nov 10 18:37:36 <timeless_mbp> that's 500mA and no storage lock
Nov 10 18:37:37 <mgedmin> tell us more
Nov 10 18:37:47 <timeless_mbp> the USB protocol is basically this:
Nov 10 18:37:48 <mgedmin> why is charging only only 100mA?
Nov 10 18:37:51 <timeless_mbp> a device walks into a bar
Nov 10 18:37:55 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: well, "A caballo regalado.." (according to wiktionary translation "Never look a gift horse in the mouth")
Nov 10 18:38:00 <sp3000> CLANGGG!
Nov 10 18:38:11 <timeless_mbp> the bar says "howdy stranger, here's enough water for you to use so you can indicate what you want to do"
Nov 10 18:38:14 <sp3000> *clatter*
Nov 10 18:38:23 <timeless_mbp> "until you indicate what you can do, i won't feed you more"
Nov 10 18:38:27 <timeless_mbp> "if you take more, that's theft"
Nov 10 18:38:34 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, not much of a gift for US people, though, sadly.
Nov 10 18:38:35 <timeless_mbp> 100mA is sufficient to get a device barely up
Nov 10 18:38:45 <timeless_mbp> anyway...
Nov 10 18:38:47 <Mek> but if my n900 is in charge-only mode, it is already seen as an usb network device by my computer, doesn't that indicate that it already uses more than just the base 100mA?
Nov 10 18:38:57 <timeless_mbp> the device says "Hey, I speak Mass Storage and <PC Suite>"
Nov 10 18:38:57 <mgedmin> what's the battery capacity?
Nov 10 18:39:07 <ShadowJK> 1340-ish as new
Nov 10 18:39:13 <timeless_mbp> if you use PC Suite, then you're offering Networking
Nov 10 18:39:14 <mgedmin> I could fully charge my device with 4 hours of "charging only"
Nov 10 18:39:31 <Mek> it offsers networking in charging-only mode already
Nov 10 18:39:46 <timeless_mbp> oh
Nov 10 18:39:47 <konttori> Jaffa: have you seen the release video of n900 by peter schneider?
Nov 10 18:39:49 <konttori> http://jkontherun.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-now-shipping-with-new-enhancements/
Nov 10 18:39:49 <timeless_mbp> we might be cheating actually
Nov 10 18:39:52 <mgedmin> also, in charging only the PC sees a usb mass storage device with two ejected drives
Nov 10 18:39:52 <timeless_mbp> iirc we did :)
Nov 10 18:39:54 <konttori> Look into 00:36
Nov 10 18:40:11 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: iirc you're not supposed to change your USB topography
Nov 10 18:40:16 <mgedmin> I think what PC Suite does is modprobe g_nokia
Nov 10 18:40:23 <mgedmin> which enables usb0 networking
Nov 10 18:40:25 <timeless_mbp> you can say "I'm a hub with 3 ports"
Nov 10 18:40:39 <mgedmin> maybe it never goes away when you unplug, which would explain why Mek sees his n900 as a network device
Nov 10 18:40:40 <timeless_mbp> and then "Ooh, port 1 got another device which is a hub with 5 ports"
Nov 10 18:40:49 <qwerty12_N810> mgedmin: There's a script somewhere on the device, pcsuite_enable.sh
Nov 10 18:40:54 <timeless_mbp> but you can't say "I've changed my mind, I'm no longer a hub with 3 ports, i'm now a hub with 5 ports"
Nov 10 18:41:02 <mikkov__> Windows updater is simply broken.
Nov 10 18:41:05 <javispedro> well, you can simulate being unplugged and  replugged
Nov 10 18:41:09 <timeless_mbp> mikkov_: file a bug ;-)
Nov 10 18:41:10 <javispedro> thats what my older palm did
Nov 10 18:41:25 <javispedro> to switch between mass storage / serial cable mode
Nov 10 18:41:29 <mikkov__> I'll have to dig the file and use the linux flasher
Nov 10 18:41:36 <mgedmin> interesting! pcsuite-enable.sh does /sbin/rmmod g_file_storage
Nov 10 18:41:45 <mgedmin> among other things
Nov 10 18:41:49 <VDVsx> seems that some folks already got their hands in the N900, I'm getting a huge amount of spam from maemo.org votes :P
Nov 10 18:42:02 <mikkov__> VDVsx: me too!
Nov 10 18:42:06 <wazd> wait
Nov 10 18:42:28 <wazd> Peter said something bout 5th desktop? :)
Nov 10 18:42:42 <mgedmin> btw procps appears to work and doesn't appear to have bricked my device
Nov 10 18:42:42 <timeless_mbp> wazd: eh?
Nov 10 18:42:51 <timeless_mbp> anyway... that's the general idea
Nov 10 18:42:53 <kynky> nokia uk shop still says order not shipped :(
Nov 10 18:42:59 <Suurorca> "damn, why didn't they release it a few weeks later"
Nov 10 18:43:01 <konttori> wazd: umm when ? (about 5th)
Nov 10 18:43:03 <wazd> timeless_mbp: http://jkontherun.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-now-shipping-with-new-enhancements/
Nov 10 18:43:06 <timeless_mbp> basically a device plugged into a host isn't allowed to steal power
Nov 10 18:43:13 <wazd> konttori: 0:17 mark
Nov 10 18:43:26 <wazd> maybe I've missheard something
Nov 10 18:43:35 <timeless_mbp> until the user chooses a usb profile from the device
Nov 10 18:43:38 * lardman patches where appropriate then gets rid
Nov 10 18:43:40 <timeless_mbp> at which point the host provides it
Nov 10 18:43:54 <lardman> anyone interested in Fremantle builds of pocketsphinx and flite?
Nov 10 18:44:04 <konttori> nooo.. there is not 5th screen. Perhaps he referred to dashboard
Nov 10 18:44:06 <mgedmin> timeless_mbp, is there a way to figure out the power mode in /sys somewhere?
Nov 10 18:44:17 <timeless_mbp> i think there's some stuff for that
Nov 10 18:44:19 <zaheerm> VDVsx, can they vote only with a device? :)
Nov 10 18:44:21 <timeless_mbp> but i don't remember how to
Nov 10 18:44:37 <lcuk> he said he needed a 5th soon.   in relation to how full his were
Nov 10 18:44:47 <VDVsx> zaheerm, no
Nov 10 18:44:49 <VDVsx> lol
Nov 10 18:44:54 <zaheerm> VDVsx, :)
Nov 10 18:44:58 <lcuk> saying he was running out of space
Nov 10 18:45:01 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: yeah, that's what i thought i heard
Nov 10 18:45:13 <timeless_mbp> he's not saying there is one
Nov 10 18:45:13 <VDVsx> zaheerm, downloads are also raising ;)
Nov 10 18:45:16 <lcuk> thats not the same as a product announcement
Nov 10 18:45:21 <timeless_mbp> "raising [sic]"
Nov 10 18:45:22 <lcuk> thats just him having it full
Nov 10 18:45:28 * mgedmin tries to figure out a mapping from "bus 001 device 017" to /sys/bus/usb/devices
Nov 10 18:45:28 <ShadowJK> Quick, someone blog that he said there will be a fifth. The blogosphere will perpetuate the lies until they become truth
Nov 10 18:45:33 <timeless_mbp> that's saying that he as a customer has an unsupported need
Nov 10 18:45:41 <lcuk> magic button!
Nov 10 18:45:47 <javispedro> and the fifth screen will act like a capacitive screen!
Nov 10 18:46:04 <frals> with multitouch!
Nov 10 18:46:09 <frals> (and color-fax)
Nov 10 18:46:13 <lcuk> mind you, if anyone was asking for a new feature, he is the more likely than most to get his way :P
Nov 10 18:46:20 <timeless_mbp> frals: some people would settle for printing support
Nov 10 18:46:27 <lcuk> +100
Nov 10 18:46:44 <javispedro> docstogo had printing support on palmos
Nov 10 18:46:45 * ShadowJK right now would want a working USB hub for his PC
Nov 10 18:47:30 <Suurorca> and i wand the thing to work as a holo-projector :)
Nov 10 18:47:45 <konttori> lcuk: by the way, welcome to the team
Nov 10 18:47:48 <kynky> be cool if the n900 could be a wireless usb hub
Nov 10 18:47:50 <SpeedEvil> Holo projectors are boring.
Nov 10 18:47:50 <ShadowJK> a regular projector would be quite awesome... or video goggles
Nov 10 18:47:53 <SpeedEvil> Replicators.
Nov 10 18:48:10 * timeless_mbp gets to the bit about the expensive flashlight for developed countries
Nov 10 18:48:15 <lcuk> :) konttori indeed.
Nov 10 18:48:16 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: replicators capable of replicating the n920 with just a sw update
Nov 10 18:48:25 <ShadowJK> timeless, nah, there are real flashlight that cost the same
Nov 10 18:48:32 <konttori> lcuk: I cannot see you yet in internal irc though.
Nov 10 18:48:37 <mgedmin> ShadowJK, probably last longer too
Nov 10 18:48:47 <ShadowJK> mgedmin, not sure :)
Nov 10 18:49:03 <dmj726> iphone is an expensive flashlight that lets you pay more for it to be a flashlight.
Nov 10 18:49:04 <lcuk> konttori, few days, setting up stuff
Nov 10 18:49:25 <SpeedEvil> Oh ...
Nov 10 18:49:27 <konttori> ok. cool. I added most of the permissions you need earlier today
Nov 10 18:49:35 <SpeedEvil> Can the flash LEDs be turned on to act like a flashlight?
Nov 10 18:49:45 <SpeedEvil> They will presumably need to be PWM'd to keep them in SOA
Nov 10 18:49:46 <mgedmin> lsusb -v shows me the N900 has two configurations self-powered 100mA and bus-powered 500mA
Nov 10 18:49:50 <mgedmin> if I understand the output correctly
Nov 10 18:50:02 <lcuk> yeah i saw those, reading mostly atm
Nov 10 18:50:21 <konttori> SpeedEvil: yes, you can keep it on
Nov 10 18:50:56 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: 500mA is the most a device can legally ask for from a host
Nov 10 18:51:01 <timeless_mbp> 100mA is the minimum a device will get
Nov 10 18:51:04 <SpeedEvil> ^USB2 host
Nov 10 18:51:07 <SpeedEvil> USB3 ...
Nov 10 18:51:12 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: i believe in usb1
Nov 10 18:51:15 * SpeedEvil stabs the USB3 standard.
Nov 10 18:51:17 <javispedro> when did USB become ugly
Nov 10 18:51:20 <timeless_mbp> yeah usb3 is ... whatever
Nov 10 18:51:21 <SpeedEvil> USB1/2 standard.
Nov 10 18:51:25 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: OHCI/UHCI ?
Nov 10 18:51:32 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: 1.1 isn't too bad.
Nov 10 18:51:42 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: agreed
Nov 10 18:51:44 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: 2 is a whole nother kettle of banannas.
Nov 10 18:51:52 <timeless_mbp> anyway, the autorun.inf stuff in nautilus dates to a request in 2004 or so
Nov 10 18:52:01 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: And 3, the inmates have taken over the asylum.
Nov 10 18:52:04 <timeless_mbp> it landed in early 2008
Nov 10 18:52:12 <javispedro> early 2008.. so no debian lenny
Nov 10 18:52:27 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: basically you need a really modern linux distro
Nov 10 18:52:35 <timeless_mbp> and you need a non lame graphics thingy too
Nov 10 18:52:42 <timeless_mbp> it turns out that my enhanced art trips something
Nov 10 18:52:42 <dmj726> 2008 != modern
Nov 10 18:52:45 <timeless_mbp> we were going to file a bug
Nov 10 18:52:48 <timeless_mbp> but i think we forgot
Nov 10 18:52:55 <javispedro> ah, for the "shininess"
Nov 10 18:53:06 <timeless_mbp> well, the icon is either properly parsed, or not
Nov 10 18:53:15 <timeless_mbp> so you either get *shiny* or broken
Nov 10 18:53:25 <timeless_mbp> if you want the older dull icon, i can leak it
Nov 10 18:53:28 <timeless_mbp> but i'd rather not
Nov 10 18:53:32 <timeless_mbp> i'm proud of my shiny icon
Nov 10 18:53:47 * GeneralAntilles wants a new image. :(
Nov 10 18:53:50 <timeless_mbp> it probably makes my one contribution the *most* visible one in the entire program
Nov 10 18:53:54 <javispedro> :)
Nov 10 18:53:55 <timeless_mbp> s/program/product/
Nov 10 18:53:55 <javispedro> true.
Nov 10 18:53:56 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: it probably makes my one contribution the *most* visible one in the entire product
Nov 10 18:54:02 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: leak the older one so we can laugh at how non-shiny it is
Nov 10 18:54:30 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: iirc it's in the tutorial
Nov 10 18:55:10 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: I uninstalled it...
Nov 10 18:55:20 * javispedro would have prefered a "killer n900" icon with blood and gore to match the new ad's 
Nov 10 18:55:40 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody needs to make a new killer penguin widget
Nov 10 18:55:55 <GeneralAntilles> With a penguin that wanders around the desktop shooting holes in it with its laser eyes.
Nov 10 18:56:11 <mgedmin> penguin with accelerometer-controlled eyes
Nov 10 18:56:29 <javispedro> someone could make a penguin doll with lasers instead of eyes
Nov 10 18:56:36 <javispedro> and give them in the next summit
Nov 10 18:56:42 <GeneralAntilles> pew pew
Nov 10 18:56:59 <dmj726> Perhaps a gift for Ballmer?
Nov 10 18:57:24 * javispedro is remembered of the "mr. gates, I'll be your host today" giant penguin posters their uni' BOFHs have.
Nov 10 18:58:01 <javispedro> s/their/his
Nov 10 18:58:14 * timeless_mbp pokes mgedmin 's irc client
Nov 10 18:58:14 <javispedro> basic grammar... the last frontier.
Nov 10 18:58:38 <SpeedEvil> penguin with carebarestare.
Nov 10 18:59:10 * mgedmin back
Nov 10 18:59:12 <dmj726> I've actually seen a dorm room with no fewer than 7 stuffed penguins.
Nov 10 18:59:23 <mgedmin> I have three or four
Nov 10 18:59:34 <dmj726> one of which was a giant penguin in a red hat.
Nov 10 18:59:59 <javispedro> I have a stuffed yoshi instead. I prefer tropical climates.
Nov 10 19:00:06 <javispedro> :)
Nov 10 19:00:12 <timeless_mbp>  /usr/share/icons/hicolor/26x26/hildon/tmp_tutorial_tn_icon.png
Nov 10 19:00:16 <qwerty12_N810> dmj726: Good for target practice, then, I'm guessing...
Nov 10 19:00:18 <timeless_mbp> was the source for the older icon fwiw
Nov 10 19:00:25 <timeless_mbp> (roughly)
Nov 10 19:01:22 <SpeedEvil> I have one plastic penguin.
Nov 10 19:01:28 <fiferboy> RST38h: I just methodically got five anonymous ratings on each of my products (in alphabetical order)
Nov 10 19:01:47 * SpeedEvil wonder WTF is going on
Nov 10 19:01:50 <SpeedEvil> negative?
Nov 10 19:02:16 <fiferboy> It is weird, the first brought my average down, the second up, third down, fourth up
Nov 10 19:02:22 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, guess it's the ratings from Maemo Select?
Nov 10 19:02:30 <fiferboy> Maybe it is rounding
Nov 10 19:02:31 <javispedro> lol.
Nov 10 19:02:34 <javispedro> lol.
Nov 10 19:02:46 <javispedro> rates from Maemo Select' er... "average" users into the QA?
Nov 10 19:02:55 <fiferboy> It happens about once a minute, five times in a row for each product, then moves on to the next one
Nov 10 19:03:12 <ShadowJK> Aha, now THIS is an expensive flashlight for developed countries, 900 pounds: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-513644/Worlds-brightest-torch-lights-objects-miles-away.html
Nov 10 19:03:18 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, Downloads or Packages?
Nov 10 19:03:19 <lcuk> does danielwilms app have rating in?
Nov 10 19:03:23 <lcuk> perhaps hes testing it
Nov 10 19:03:27 <fiferboy> GeneralAntilles: Downloads
Nov 10 19:03:41 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, pretty sure it's the Maemo Select ratings.
Nov 10 19:04:08 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: IIRC that's not really true - I recall brighter
Nov 10 19:04:18 <javispedro> ah, downloads. sorry, I read something about testing before :P
Nov 10 19:04:26 <fiferboy> Where do you even rate an application on Maemo select?
Nov 10 19:04:30 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: kilowatt HID bulbs portable
Nov 10 19:04:38 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, on the listings pages.
Nov 10 19:04:38 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil, yes it says so in the article that there are brighter, but this one reaches further because the beam is much more focused
Nov 10 19:04:40 <fiferboy> Ah, only on the non-detailed screen?
Nov 10 19:04:45 <GeneralAntilles> Although the ratings system is super broken.
Nov 10 19:04:56 <GeneralAntilles> Doesn't respond to clicks most of the time.
Nov 10 19:05:07 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: Actually - I think I made a possibly comparable one.
Nov 10 19:05:13 <mgedmin> video out supports portrait, cool
Nov 10 19:05:21 <lcuk> "<GeneralAntilles> Doesn't respond to clicks most of the time."
Nov 10 19:05:24 <wazd> fiferboy: how's it going? :)
Nov 10 19:05:26 <lcuk> click click click click
Nov 10 19:05:27 <mgedmin> it never occurred to me to try that
Nov 10 19:05:34 <fiferboy> Do the select ratings take into account the maemo.org download ratings?
Nov 10 19:05:38 <lcuk> "why are my votes goin up n down"
Nov 10 19:05:38 <mgedmin> not that there are many apps that support portrait
Nov 10 19:05:39 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: 1W LED, with a 1.5*1.5mm source but a 60cm*60cm lens. not really important
Nov 10 19:05:40 <fiferboy> wazd: Pretty good.  You?
Nov 10 19:06:01 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, I assume so, but dunno.
Nov 10 19:06:07 <wazd> fiferboy: same as always :)
Nov 10 19:06:52 <fiferboy> Hmm, m.o downloads says 61 downloads, Maemo select says 52...
Nov 10 19:06:57 <ShadowJK> If you settle for just frying scrambled eggs instead of a whole dog, it's as cheap as 300 :)
Nov 10 19:07:18 <qwerty12_N810> But whole dog is more tasty :(
Nov 10 19:09:10 <javispedro> qwerty12_N810: there's an app for that
Nov 10 19:09:35 <lardman> I nearly tried dog when I was in korea
Nov 10 19:09:55 <lardman> didn;t look too tasty tho, so went for the live squid instead
Nov 10 19:11:05 <ShadowJK> So when you get fed up with your N900/iphones/droids/hd2/whatever, you can just "illuminate" them...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AluuEjloH0M
Nov 10 19:12:02 <fiferboy> lardman: Was the squid bathed in lard?
Nov 10 19:13:06 <serenity> yeah, maemo runs under scratchbox
Nov 10 19:13:36 <lardman> fiferboy: no; had it been, there would have been no hesitation and thoughts of eating a pooch
Nov 10 19:14:37 * lardman curses flite debianisation
Nov 10 19:19:23 <lardman> hmm, managed to hack it into building, but any debianites will not be pleased with my methods I imagine
Nov 10 19:23:15 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: ping
Nov 10 19:23:23 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: pong
Nov 10 19:23:23 <timeless_mbp> did you write the updated binary thing for me?
Nov 10 19:23:59 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: I gave you a link to a zenity binary that accepts a --parent-window=XID param
Nov 10 19:24:09 <timeless_mbp> yeah, but the cpa part?
Nov 10 19:24:35 <timeless_mbp> you gave me an arm binary, right?
Nov 10 19:24:48 <timeless_mbp> i can't really test that w/o xwininfo which ... hrm
Nov 10 19:25:14 <qwerty12_N810> Nope, I was waiting for you to finish off the required modifications to your stuff so I could modify the CPA as required
Nov 10 19:25:29 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: Yes, it was an ARM binary
Nov 10 19:25:42 <timeless_mbp> is x11-utils available anywhere?
Nov 10 19:25:59 <GeneralAntilles> SDK repo, maybe.
Nov 10 19:27:22 <timeless_mbp> could someone check, i'm a bit busy?
Nov 10 19:29:00 <javispedro> timeless: x11-utils 7.4+2-1maemo3 , probably sdk repo
Nov 10 19:29:30 * timeless_mbp busy waits for the catalogs item to open
Nov 10 19:30:00 <javispedro> sdk tools repo actually
Nov 10 19:30:21 <serenity> which repo must i add inside maemo to get apps?
Nov 10 19:30:48 <timeless_mbp> serenity: just enable extras
Nov 10 19:31:11 <zaheerm> with gtk+/hildon how is best way to have a floating bar of widgets like say in the video player come up with controls on touch?
Nov 10 19:31:16 <javispedro> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/x/x11-utils/
Nov 10 19:31:42 <timeless_mbp> is the tools repo "safe" for use on the device?
Nov 10 19:32:00 <lcuk> i use it
Nov 10 19:32:05 <javispedro> safe guess is "it's not". but x11-utils package alone shouldn't cause much damage
Nov 10 19:32:06 <lcuk> randomly
Nov 10 19:36:35 <timeless_mbp> ok, your zenity binary work
Nov 10 19:36:53 <timeless_mbp> but i can't use that feature w/o knowing that the zenity supports it
Nov 10 19:37:02 <timeless_mbp> can you promise me a zenity package version number?
Nov 10 19:37:56 <qwerty12_N810> I will update it, I promise (I tried y/day but maemo-optify went up the shitter)
Nov 10 19:38:20 <timeless_mbp> oh
Nov 10 19:38:27 <timeless_mbp> also, please add it to --help[-something]
Nov 10 19:38:39 <qwerty12_N810> It should be there; try --help-general
Nov 10 19:39:04 <timeless_mbp> oh, i didn't see --hildon before
Nov 10 19:39:04 <timeless_mbp> is that new?
Nov 10 19:39:17 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: No, but it's useless for the most part under Fremantle
Nov 10 19:39:18 <timeless_mbp> (it doesn't seem to work)
Nov 10 19:39:44 <timeless_mbp> should i use it under the assumption that you'll eventually fix it? :)
Nov 10 19:40:02 <qwerty12_N810> I'd recommend not to use it...
Nov 10 19:40:07 <timeless_mbp> ok
Nov 10 19:40:25 <lardman> flite & pocketsphinx here, let me know if they do or don't work: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/speech/
Nov 10 19:41:25 <Stskeeps> is it possible to call someone over sip without a sip account?
Nov 10 19:42:19 <timeless_mbp> you'd need a sip gateway :)
Nov 10 19:42:27 <Stskeeps> and i guess google talk doesn't count
Nov 10 19:42:59 <timeless_mbp> i'm not quite sure what you mean
Nov 10 19:43:10 <timeless_mbp> sip involves giving your device a hint about a sip gateway
Nov 10 19:43:19 <timeless_mbp> think of it as a point of presence
Nov 10 19:43:22 <Stskeeps> mm
Nov 10 19:43:27 <timeless_mbp> i don't think we run our own sip server
Nov 10 19:43:31 <timeless_mbp> note that i really don't speak sip
Nov 10 19:43:38 <timeless_mbp> so i could be wrong
Nov 10 19:43:57 <timeless_mbp> but that's the general idea, i think
Nov 10 19:44:20 <timeless_mbp> although if i understand correctly you end up doing point to point connections after you dial
Nov 10 19:44:39 <timeless_mbp> but i'm pretty sure you use the server to deal w/ directory lookups
Nov 10 19:44:52 <timeless_mbp> "where's the server i can use to talk to so-and-so?"
Nov 10 19:45:17 <timeless_mbp> or "hi point-of-presence, i'm over here, tell me when someone calls me"
Nov 10 19:50:15 <suihkulokki> timeless_mbp: you can make direct sip-phone <-> sip-phone calls without any servers or gateways inbetween, if the recieving side is configured in to allow that
Nov 10 19:50:40 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: so i can callto:@192.168.200.167 ?
Nov 10 19:51:03 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: Ah yes. http://www.polarion-store.com/cat_polarion.cfm was what I was thinking of.
Nov 10 19:51:22 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: does our ui support that? :)
Nov 10 19:51:44 <suihkulokki> 1) yes (firewalls and proxies permitting) 2) no clue
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 10 19:53:47 2009
Nov 10 19:54:32 * ShadowJK just dials normal numbers and has no clue how to dial sip outside of the "normal" telephony addressspace
Nov 10 19:54:32 <javispedro> ls
Nov 10 19:54:51 <javispedro> ouch. damn wrong window zorder
Nov 10 19:55:12 <acidjazz> any update on the n900 shipping
Nov 10 19:55:45 <javispedro> acidjazz: http://talk.maemo.org
Nov 10 19:56:26 <acidjazz> yea its all crap
Nov 10 19:56:32 <acidjazz> ppl yelling at each other
Nov 10 19:56:36 <acidjazz> i read the forum 1st always
Nov 10 19:57:26 <kynky> mine doesnt say shipping on uk nokia shop, afaict nokia shipping to resellers first like amazon and mpd, who will ship on 16th to have in hands of customers on 17th, but no idea on nokia shop deliveries, although i imagine it will vary from region to region
Nov 10 19:58:46 <SpeedEvil> Mine also says nothing about shipping on my uk nokia shop order of the 20th last month
Nov 10 20:01:36 <GeneralAntilles> Goddamnit
Nov 10 20:01:43 <GeneralAntilles> Stupid Nokia and their stupid NSU.
Nov 10 20:03:12 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 10 20:03:31 <SpeedEvil> NSU?
Nov 10 20:03:40 <GeneralAntilles> Windows updater
Nov 10 20:03:56 <SpeedEvil> ah
Nov 10 20:04:37 <realitygaps> is there a non NSU way of updating? I remember the flasher was updated to work with n900 but couldnt find a rom anywhere
Nov 10 20:05:09 <GeneralAntilles> realitygaps, yes, but they need to release a FIASCO image, first.
Nov 10 20:05:36 <SpeedEvil> I assume there is a linux flasher?
Nov 10 20:06:24 <realitygaps> GeneralAntilles: any idea of an ETA for that? or do i have to find a freedom hating machine to use :(
Nov 10 20:06:26 <qwerty12_N810> SpeedEvil: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo_flasher-3-5_tool_final_for_fremantle_and_diablo_released/
Nov 10 20:06:31 <kynky> maemo flasher 3.5 iirc
Nov 10 20:06:32 <timeless_mbp> we could probably leak an image :)
Nov 10 20:06:40 <timeless_mbp> but i don't have one
Nov 10 20:06:55 <kynky> image should be for d/l soon i thought considering shipped status
Nov 10 20:06:58 <GeneralAntilles> realitygaps, I really hope the week 42 image NSU seems to be providing isn't the real deal.
Nov 10 20:07:06 <GeneralAntilles> Otherwise that was a big waste of a deylay.
Nov 10 20:07:10 <GeneralAntilles> s/deylay/delay/
Nov 10 20:07:11 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Otherwise that was a big waste of a delay.
Nov 10 20:07:20 <timeless_mbp> kynky: i'm not sure
Nov 10 20:07:21 <realitygaps> GeneralAntilles: me too but maybe its a later revision?
Nov 10 20:07:27 <timeless_mbp> afaiu historically we've never offered the original image
Nov 10 20:07:28 <dmj726> Yeah, I don't even have a Windows box in booting condition right now.
Nov 10 20:07:43 <timeless_mbp> dmj726: the flasher that people use @nokia is flasher-3.5
Nov 10 20:07:46 <realitygaps> dmj726: me either, already had to install a debian just to get scratchbox working on linux
Nov 10 20:07:47 <timeless_mbp> which runs on windows and linux
Nov 10 20:07:53 * timeless_mbp has never gotten it to work on osx
Nov 10 20:07:56 <GeneralAntilles> and OS X
Nov 10 20:08:06 <timeless_mbp> for me, it doesn't work
Nov 10 20:08:07 <qwerty12_N810> No one cares about OS X
Nov 10 20:08:21 * timeless_mbp kicks qwerty12_N810 
Nov 10 20:08:27 <dmj726> Ubuntu machines I have in plenty
Nov 10 20:08:32 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, works on every machine I've tried so far
Nov 10 20:08:38 <realitygaps> dmj726: ubuntu is too broken for me for daily use
Nov 10 20:08:39 <GeneralAntilles> 10.5/10.6 PPC/Intel machines.
Nov 10 20:08:54 * timeless_mbp ponders
Nov 10 20:08:59 <timeless_mbp> i've tried it on two macbooks
Nov 10 20:09:01 <timeless_mbp> neither liked it
Nov 10 20:09:05 <dmj726> Karmic is fine for my daily use.
Nov 10 20:09:14 <realitygaps> timeless_mbp: as root?
Nov 10 20:09:18 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Nov 10 20:09:23 <timeless_mbp> realitygaps: um
Nov 10 20:09:27 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, maybe 10.5/Intel is the machine fail?
Nov 10 20:09:30 <timeless_mbp> the error message was from the loader
Nov 10 20:09:34 <realitygaps> dmj726: karmic dropped my laptop battery life to half for starters...
Nov 10 20:09:38 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: 10.5-intel yes
Nov 10 20:09:41 <dmj726> eeek?
Nov 10 20:09:48 <realitygaps> dmj726: and kde on ubuntu is really pretty crappy
Nov 10 20:09:53 <dmj726> which distro do you use realitygaps?
Nov 10 20:10:00 <realitygaps> dmj726: generally archlinux
Nov 10 20:10:00 <GeneralAntilles> s/machine/magic/
Nov 10 20:10:00 <qwerty12_N810> s/on ubuntu//
Nov 10 20:10:01 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: timeless_mbp, maybe 10.5/Intel is the magic fail?
Nov 10 20:10:04 <dmj726> I'm a GNOME user/dev
Nov 10 20:10:10 <realitygaps> sometimes debian (sidux)
Nov 10 20:10:32 <realitygaps> dmj726: did they fix apt-get install gnome in ubuntu yet? its been broken nearly every release i tried
Nov 10 20:10:57 <GeneralAntilles> Week 42, what a waste of time and effort.
Nov 10 20:11:11 <dmj726> I just get the Ubuntu with GNOME
Nov 10 20:11:13 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: eh?
Nov 10 20:11:17 <timeless_mbp> just wait for pr1.1
Nov 10 20:11:22 <timeless_mbp> which won't include a browser update :)
Nov 10 20:11:31 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, unfortunately a lot of people are going to buy these things and perhaps never upgrade.
Nov 10 20:11:42 <realitygaps> dmj726: yes but thats ubuntu-desktop - if you try apt-get install gnome (to grab the full gnome) then it usually says broken packages, even in LTS
Nov 10 20:11:51 <dmj726> hmmm
Nov 10 20:11:51 <realitygaps> GeneralAntilles: its a real shame
Nov 10 20:11:57 <dmj726> never tried it.
Nov 10 20:11:59 <realitygaps> they had a chance to really fix so much
Nov 10 20:12:12 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: well, since the important browser upgrade won't come out until even later...
Nov 10 20:12:39 <realitygaps> will the NSU wipe the big disk?
Nov 10 20:13:31 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: week 42 (freeze) revision 11
Nov 10 20:13:38 <Stskeeps> as far as i can tell
Nov 10 20:13:59 * realitygaps hopes someone in this channel might leak him a nokia image that is flashable under linux....
Nov 10 20:14:09 <edgar2> +1
Nov 10 20:16:22 <GeneralAntilles> Woo, NSU is throwing errors in Finnish.
Nov 10 20:16:36 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, now it's in English
Nov 10 20:16:40 <GeneralAntilles> Windows 7 is not supported?
Nov 10 20:16:42 <GeneralAntilles> Awesome.
Nov 10 20:16:43 <fiferboy> NSU detects my N900, but says there is no updated firmware available...
Nov 10 20:16:46 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: nice
Nov 10 20:16:56 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: actually
Nov 10 20:17:01 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia: Bringing the Fail
Nov 10 20:17:07 <timeless_mbp> given that the nokia stuff has a broken service name
Nov 10 20:17:13 <realitygaps> Nokia: open source via closed source platforms
Nov 10 20:17:15 <timeless_mbp> such that the microsoft fire wall says FCUK OFF
Nov 10 20:17:22 <kami> hi all
Nov 10 20:17:31 * lardman wonders why xchat closes itself whenever he walks away from the pc for more than 10min
Nov 10 20:17:35 <timeless_mbp> the nokia app names have a trailing space :)
Nov 10 20:17:43 <timeless_mbp> the windows firewall does *not* approve
Nov 10 20:17:53 <timeless_mbp> (such a thing is typically a sign of an evil app)
Nov 10 20:18:03 <Stskeeps> a firewall after your head?
Nov 10 20:18:16 <Stskeeps> er, according
Nov 10 20:18:59 <kynky> windows needs package manager with reposotories
Nov 10 20:19:23 <GeneralAntilles> I can't even begin to fathom that working on Windows.
Nov 10 20:19:26 <realitygaps> kynky: that would be great then thousands of users would click to add the virus repository in their IE
Nov 10 20:19:35 <luke-jr> kynky: so do most OS
Nov 10 20:19:41 <realitygaps> kynky: and enter their credit cards after clicking install
Nov 10 20:19:47 <kynky> lol
Nov 10 20:20:03 <dmj726> Imagine a package manager that doesn't need a credit card!
Nov 10 20:20:20 <matt__> I just updated my N900 from 37 - 42. Now I notice that I can't save files.  Looks like the fs mounted at /home/user/MyDocs has rodir in /etc/fstab and not rw.  Why is this? Is su the only fix? how do I do that?
Nov 10 20:20:22 <MuJ> lardman: faulty powersace options or somethingg?
Nov 10 20:20:54 <MuJ> save*
Nov 10 20:21:05 <sp3000> hrm, why is mirror lacking packages in extras proper
Nov 10 20:21:05 <suihkulokki> realitygaps: hows that different that the current reality where windows users click to add a virus.exe and give it their cc number ?
Nov 10 20:21:18 <sp3000> and why does it list python-support twice :)
Nov 10 20:21:27 <realitygaps> suihkulokki: it would just be more efficient :)
Nov 10 20:21:37 <lcuk> suihkulokki, where can i download that from? sounds cool
Nov 10 20:21:43 <timeless_mbp> matt__: if your file system is corrupted
Nov 10 20:21:46 <timeless_mbp> we'll mount it ro
Nov 10 20:21:56 <timeless_mbp> there's a repair tool floating around somewhere in the n900 iirc
Nov 10 20:22:10 <suihkulokki> the only difference I see that with a repo the virus provider can provide smooth updates if they don't get knocked of the internet
Nov 10 20:22:11 <timeless_mbp> alternatively you can try to plug it into a windows computer and use checkdisk
Nov 10 20:22:14 * realitygaps busy downloading an XP image to try flash nokias 'open phone' using windows in virtualbox
Nov 10 20:22:31 <timeless_mbp> where did you guys find the image?
Nov 10 20:22:31 <lcuk> hiya timeless :) settled back in now
Nov 10 20:22:32 <lcuk> ?
Nov 10 20:22:39 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: mostly
Nov 10 20:22:52 <timeless_mbp> i have 400-500 unread bugmails
Nov 10 20:23:06 <lcuk> yikes
Nov 10 20:23:09 <timeless_mbp> down from perhaps 10,000 iirc
Nov 10 20:23:14 <timeless_mbp> dunno, i didn't pay much attn to that part
Nov 10 20:23:47 <sp3000> hrm, the openssh combo package isn't happy either (it's missing its parts)
Nov 10 20:34:33 <sp3000> so how do you vote packages down from extras proper :}
Nov 10 20:35:03 <SpeedEvil>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x5IziyOcAg - clearly an app needed for maemo.
Nov 10 20:35:49 <qwerty12_N810> iBoobs first, please, kthxbye
Nov 10 20:36:12 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, arduino
Nov 10 20:36:28 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: well - yes.
Nov 10 20:36:40 <lcuk> use a pair of n900s (or 1 with a mirror to get stereoscopic vision)
Nov 10 20:37:17 * lcuk was looking at robot parts last night
Nov 10 20:37:55 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: car scrapyards are good sources.
Nov 10 20:38:11 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: door lock motors, windscreen wipers, ...
Nov 10 20:38:12 <lcuk> i was thinking of starting a bit smaller with something i could host an n900 in
Nov 10 20:38:18 <lcuk> like the dog, but with more firepower
Nov 10 20:38:44 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: Clearly you need to mount a flamethrower on your dog.
Nov 10 20:39:50 <lcuk> these surprised me
Nov 10 20:39:51 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYRehpTxbik
Nov 10 20:40:01 <lcuk> and my missus would not let me have one tho
Nov 10 20:40:49 <lcuk> and these are even worse - like cockroaches (v big and fast) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Soq9qpK5Ac
Nov 10 20:41:28 <lcuk> oh cool i found the really evil looking spider one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdR0q-suw0c&feature=related
Nov 10 20:41:56 <matt__> Yes, there is a remark for FAT error: invalid cluster chain at ipos 0. MS chckdisk does nothing. Where is this other tool?  I can not umount (not permitted) and can not run fsck in mass storage mode.
Nov 10 20:43:50 <suihkulokki> timeless_mbp: apparently our ui doesn't allowing sip calls without a sip account, and when you have one, all the calls seem to the service provider...
Nov 10 20:44:21 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: cute
Nov 10 20:44:43 <lardman> MuJ: dunno, but it's still running this time :)
Nov 10 20:45:29 <suihkulokki> timeless_mbp: could just be my incompetence with sip setup and uris
Nov 10 20:46:07 <lardman> hmm, flite -v "hello how are you" makes a small squeak and tells me it's created 1.498125s of audio
Nov 10 20:46:43 <timeless_mbp> lardman: that should be "hello, how are you?"
Nov 10 20:47:01 <timeless_mbp> unless you know someone fn:how, mn:are ln:you
Nov 10 20:47:03 <lardman> timeless_mbp: you reckon it objects to my grammar? ;)
Nov 10 20:47:18 <timeless_mbp> its legal to read it considerably faster w/o punctuation :)
Nov 10 20:47:23 <lardman> :)
Nov 10 20:47:31 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: it's
Nov 10 20:47:33 <timeless_mbp> s/its/it's/
Nov 10 20:47:35 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: it's legal to read it considerably faster w/o punctuation :)
Nov 10 20:47:40 <lcuk> lardman, it would have more problems trying to speak northern
Nov 10 20:47:53 * qwerty12_N810 had to have his turn at being a pedant ;)
Nov 10 20:47:59 <lardman> true, adding a "," and a "?" made the alleged output .3 s longer
Nov 10 20:48:09 <GiantTalkingCow> Speaking of reading faster, I've got a bit of a weird question: do you all read normally word by word or a sentence at a time?
Nov 10 20:48:31 <timeless_mbp> GiantTalkingCow: 'you all' and 'normally' and complex sentence structure
Nov 10 20:48:33 <lardman> 5 words at a time, or thereabouts I guess
Nov 10 20:48:33 <timeless_mbp> = yuck
Nov 10 20:48:39 <lcuk> if the text is correctly formatted you can read much faster
Nov 10 20:48:39 <timeless_mbp> i read word at a time
Nov 10 20:48:46 <lcuk> for irc its slower
Nov 10 20:48:55 <lardman> too many northerners ;)
Nov 10 20:48:56 <SpeedEvil> There was one insane nutter over on #freenode - possibly still is.
Nov 10 20:48:58 <timeless_mbp> but i read fairly quickly
Nov 10 20:48:59 <SpeedEvil> Blind person.
Nov 10 20:49:00 <timeless_mbp> i think i have a 5 word buffer
Nov 10 20:49:12 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, thats not insane
Nov 10 20:49:12 <SpeedEvil> Who had his screenreader going at 600wpm
Nov 10 20:49:17 <timeless_mbp> that's fairly typical
Nov 10 20:49:18 <qwerty12_N810> lardman: so true
Nov 10 20:49:33 <timeless_mbp> blind users w/ screen readers will tune their readers up to incredibly fast speeds
Nov 10 20:49:55 <timeless_mbp> there was a demo (mostly auditory) a week ago, sunday
Nov 10 20:50:05 <serenity> serenity@mangolassi:~$ /scratchbox/login
Nov 10 20:50:05 <GiantTalkingCow> SpeedEvil: Oh yeah, I remember that guy. I tried something like that myself. I was able to follow everything without much trouble, but it sort of lost the nuance. That sort of thing is fine for absorbing technical info, but I just don't see plays or stories working very well.
Nov 10 20:50:06 <serenity> bash: /scratchbox/login: Permission denied
Nov 10 20:50:07 <timeless_mbp> by ibm showing a screenreader-browser thing
Nov 10 20:50:23 <timeless_mbp> which managed to deal with 'descriptive audio' in conjunction with a video
Nov 10 20:50:25 <sp3000> oh, oops, user error
Nov 10 20:50:32 <timeless_mbp> it was based on fennec
Nov 10 20:50:38 <matt__> timeless_mbp ? where can i find the other fsck?
Nov 10 20:50:44 <lcuk> neat
Nov 10 20:50:44 <timeless_mbp> matt__: um
Nov 10 20:50:46 <timeless_mbp> dunno :)
Nov 10 20:50:57 <lcuk> the other one?
Nov 10 20:50:58 <serenity> why can't i login in scratchbox?
Nov 10 20:51:05 <matt__> Is there a source repository somewhere?
Nov 10 20:51:06 <timeless_mbp> serenity: you forgot to log out
Nov 10 20:51:20 <timeless_mbp> unix permissions are assigned at log in
Nov 10 20:51:24 <timeless_mbp> s/log in/login/ (?)
Nov 10 20:51:51 <timeless_mbp> so if you login, create a group x, put yourself into it, and try to use the group, you'll find you aren't a member
Nov 10 20:51:53 <lcuk> which ides offer ui designer and not so much boilerplate?
Nov 10 20:52:04 <lcuk> or rather, not so much required
Nov 10 20:52:08 <lcuk> for me to type
Nov 10 20:52:20 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: copy xul files !
Nov 10 20:52:21 <timeless_mbp> :)
Nov 10 20:52:43 <lcuk> yeah, xul is nice ill give you that
Nov 10 20:53:07 <timeless_mbp> s/ill/i'll/
Nov 10 20:53:21 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: Working on Gecko and such, how do you justify to yourself using Safari?
Nov 10 20:53:24 <lardman> would you believe it, pocketsphinx actually works :)
Nov 10 20:53:31 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: i can't uninstall it
Nov 10 20:53:37 <timeless_mbp> and i'm in the credits
Nov 10 20:54:00 <qwerty12_N810> Terrible excuse :-)
Nov 10 20:54:05 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: do you have webkit handy?
Nov 10 20:54:27 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: I use Tear on the N810, but apart from that, no
Nov 10 20:55:26 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N810, he'd never admit it, but it's the native widgets. ;)
Nov 10 20:55:31 <lardman> wow, flite also works
Nov 10 20:55:51 <timeless_mbp> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/k/kde4libs/kde4libs_4.3.1-0ubuntu2/kdelibs5.copyright
Nov 10 20:55:55 <GiantTalkingCow> Last time I used it, Fennec was dog slow, albeit with a nice UI. I wonder if it's improved any?
Nov 10 20:55:55 <timeless_mbp> heck, i'm in the khtml credits :)
Nov 10 20:56:04 <timeless_mbp> GiantTalkingCow: a bit faster
Nov 10 20:56:09 <timeless_mbp> and support for html5:video
Nov 10 20:56:25 <timeless_mbp> http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:FLur08s0lq0J:opensource.apple.com/source/files/files-521/Library/Documentation/Acknowledgements.rtf+webkit+credits+timeless+soref&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk
Nov 10 20:56:40 <lcuk> theres a youtube converter somewhere isnt there?  does native html5+video tag run faster/smoother than hosting in flash
Nov 10 20:56:46 <GiantTalkingCow> Good to know, I suppose. I do hope it gets up to snuff. I enjoy having an adblocker without having to tweak my hosts file.
Nov 10 20:57:07 <lcuk> that reminds me
Nov 10 20:57:12 <lcuk> i need to fix flashblock again
Nov 10 20:57:13 <GiantTalkingCow> Yes there is. I read about it on Reddit yesterday. A quick search over there and you should find it.
Nov 10 20:57:22 <lcuk> its letting flash through on my win box
Nov 10 20:57:42 <GeneralAntilles> GiantTalkingCow, AdBlock is in Extras.
Nov 10 20:57:46 <GeneralAntilles> For Fremantle, anyway.
Nov 10 20:58:43 <lcuk> in garage
Nov 10 20:58:48 <lcuk> there is an old project
Nov 10 20:58:53 <lcuk> and its svn is not public
Nov 10 20:58:54 <timeless_mbp> grep -i timeless /Library/Documentation/Acknowledgements.rtf |perl -pne 's/.*(<timeless.*?>).*/$1/'
Nov 10 20:58:54 <timeless_mbp> <timeless@mac.com>
Nov 10 20:59:01 <lcuk> i thought all svn stuff was public
Nov 10 20:59:03 <timeless_mbp> see :)
Nov 10 20:59:08 * GeneralAntilles misses iTools.
Nov 10 20:59:12 <lcuk> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/bac/
Nov 10 20:59:18 <timeless_mbp> what's iTools?
Nov 10 20:59:18 * lcuk cannot download files
Nov 10 20:59:23 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: :)
Nov 10 20:59:37 <timeless_mbp> that's kinda cool, no? :)
Nov 10 20:59:38 * lcuk thinks timeless rocks
Nov 10 20:59:48 <timeless_mbp> i'm in credits in a number of amusing places :)
Nov 10 20:59:53 <timeless_mbp> i think my favorite is lsof :)
Nov 10 21:00:05 <lcuk> not for that :P i meant cos you know how to regex :P
Nov 10 21:00:05 <GeneralAntilles> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MobileMe
Nov 10 21:00:16 <matt__> lcuk -- I'm looking for a way run fsck; but I can't without root.  Any idea how to get there?
Nov 10 21:00:17 <qwerty12_N810> timeless: Yes, but now I can't say you're a traitor to Mozilla :(
Nov 10 21:00:33 <lcuk> matt__, your fscked
Nov 10 21:00:43 <lcuk> gainroot
Nov 10 21:00:47 <lcuk> i think
Nov 10 21:00:49 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: that bit is because of work that was taken by apple (really dave hyatt) from mozilla when he started working on webkit
Nov 10 21:01:17 * timeless_mbp frowns
Nov 10 21:01:23 <timeless_mbp> how the heck do i find lsof credits anyway?
Nov 10 21:01:32 <lcuk> google
Nov 10 21:01:34 <fiferboy> Hmm, the old NSU detects my N900 but says there is no update
Nov 10 21:01:40 <fiferboy> The new NSU doesn't detect my N900...
Nov 10 21:01:46 <timeless_mbp> i'm failing to google for it
Nov 10 21:01:53 <qwerty12_N810> fiferboy: Yeah, Canadians not allowed
Nov 10 21:02:04 <lcuk> email?
Nov 10 21:02:07 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: not funny, historically iranians aren't allowed
Nov 10 21:02:10 <fiferboy> qwerty12_N810: Ah.  I wondered if it was something like that
Nov 10 21:02:25 <timeless_mbp> ITAR iirc
Nov 10 21:02:26 <lardman> hmm, play_wave doesn't seem to work in flite
Nov 10 21:02:40 * lardman goes and watches CSI
Nov 10 21:02:57 <timeless_mbp> eep
Nov 10 21:03:06 <timeless_mbp> ok, where the heck is lsof actually hosted?
Nov 10 21:03:32 <Robot101> robot101@tau:/usr/share/doc/lsof$ head -n5 copyright
Nov 10 21:03:32 <Robot101> This package was debianized by Jim Mintha jmintha@debian.org on
Nov 10 21:03:32 <Robot101> Sat, 15 May 1999 22:50:27 +0200.
Nov 10 21:03:32 <Robot101> It was downloaded from ftp://vic.cc.purdue.edu/pub/tools/unix/lsof
Nov 10 21:03:44 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/lsof/lsof-41/lsof/00CREDITS
Nov 10 21:04:01 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: :)
Nov 10 21:04:10 <timeless_mbp> do you see me in that list?
Nov 10 21:04:19 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: Yep :)
Nov 10 21:04:52 <timeless_mbp> site:www.opensource.apple.com + :)
Nov 10 21:06:36 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out how to package this stuff
Nov 10 21:06:55 <timeless_mbp> is there anything wrong with me first having a package in maemo-extras-devel as non-free
Nov 10 21:06:59 <timeless_mbp> and then having a later version in free ?
Nov 10 21:07:26 <sjgadsby> The distant screaming you hear is me running from the "Which is better, a widget or a shortcut?" discussion on Talk.
Nov 10 21:07:45 * lcuk sighs
Nov 10 21:08:07 <range> sjgadsby: A swidgecut!
Nov 10 21:08:13 <GeneralAntilles> sjgadsby, nice place, Talk.
Nov 10 21:08:18 <qwerty12_N810> sjgadsby: You're too calm a moderator. Release the anger within...
Nov 10 21:09:00 <Stskeeps> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=371541&postcount=130 <- noone can claim they're getting ignored by nokia now
Nov 10 21:09:04 <Stskeeps> ;p
Nov 10 21:09:19 <kalikianatoli> osso has no way to tell me if an application is running - that's a pity :-(
Nov 10 21:09:38 <LiraNuna> hahaha
Nov 10 21:10:11 <qwerty12_N810> They only want him for the free N900s :(
Nov 10 21:10:44 <GeneralAntilles> sjgadsby, I vote for more pro-active culling.
Nov 10 21:11:29 <timeless_mbp> kalikianatoli: pidof?
Nov 10 21:11:32 <sjgadsby> With qwerty12_N810's "release your rage" suggestion in mind, the "So who will get it first" poll takes on much more fun possibilities.
Nov 10 21:14:28 <wazd> http://s15.radikal.ru/i189/0911/55/50ed1b9913d0.png <- how's that?
Nov 10 21:14:59 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, description should go above authors
Nov 10 21:15:06 <GeneralAntilles> Downloads should probably be moved under the rating.
Nov 10 21:15:19 <GeneralAntilles> and I'd just drop the "Description:" heading.
Nov 10 21:15:28 <kalikianatoli> timeless_mbp, I would have wanted an osso_something function, for when my app is called from a terminal.
Nov 10 21:15:42 <timeless_mbp> kalikianatoli: *shrug*
Nov 10 21:15:44 <timeless_mbp> i'm a hacker
Nov 10 21:15:48 <timeless_mbp> my gui is perl+zenity
Nov 10 21:15:52 <kalikianatoli> heh
Nov 10 21:15:58 <wazd> why it *should* go above the authors?
Nov 10 21:16:40 <wazd> install near "close" button - fail :)
Nov 10 21:16:51 <timeless_mbp> wazd: maybe put the stars in the left column?
Nov 10 21:16:56 <LiraNuna> it looks fine imo
Nov 10 21:17:13 <LiraNuna> it's green, it's easy to blindly click
Nov 10 21:17:19 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: Is this for danielwilms' app?
Nov 10 21:17:20 <timeless_mbp> are the stars live or an indicator?
Nov 10 21:17:29 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, because nobody cares who wrote it.
Nov 10 21:17:48 <lardman> anyone knows if there are any tricks needed to get decent alsa output on the N900?
Nov 10 21:17:49 <timeless_mbp> i'd rather downloads and stars be in a column together
Nov 10 21:17:52 <timeless_mbp> (stacked)
Nov 10 21:17:54 <timeless_mbp> probably the left one
Nov 10 21:18:37 <wazd> timeless: http://s47.radikal.ru/i117/0911/f7/85d231bf13d4.png <- that's why stars are on the right (ignore the bottom bar)
Nov 10 21:19:02 <fiferboy> I'm famous!
Nov 10 21:19:21 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: you don't have to scroll for description because of that authors row, so basically it's not harming, and some author promotion is good too btw
Nov 10 21:19:27 <wazd> fiferboy: :D
Nov 10 21:19:34 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, depends on how long the description is. :)
Nov 10 21:19:40 <qwerty12_N810> fiferboy: Grr, it's called Talk now, not "ITT forums" :p
Nov 10 21:19:47 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, and the key is still putting the more useful information first
Nov 10 21:19:51 <GeneralAntilles> NOBODY cares who wrote it
Nov 10 21:19:52 <RST38h> wazd: why not make stars vertical? :)
Nov 10 21:19:56 <GeneralAntilles> and even fewer will recognize those names.
Nov 10 21:20:04 <fiferboy> qwerty12_N810: It's nostalgic
Nov 10 21:20:06 <GeneralAntilles> So putting USELESS information first is backwards.
Nov 10 21:20:09 <wazd> RST38h: diagonal, anyone? :D
Nov 10 21:20:18 <fiferboy> wazd: In a circle
Nov 10 21:20:33 <serenity> a installation went wrong. How can i reset dpkg?
Nov 10 21:20:53 <wazd> RST38h: well, it will look like a single coloumn of stars in the list view
Nov 10 21:21:02 <lcuk> RST38h, ewww
Nov 10 21:21:35 <lcuk> wazd, i once had idea to do hot or not and let app pics move left or right in a grid
Nov 10 21:21:40 <lcuk> left was blue cold
Nov 10 21:21:43 <lcuk> right was hot red
Nov 10 21:21:47 <lcuk> you just adjust x pos
Nov 10 21:22:10 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: well, maybe you're right
Nov 10 21:22:22 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, of course I'm right. :P
Nov 10 21:23:11 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: but again, it's not that important cause you don't need to scroll
Nov 10 21:23:19 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, sure it is.
Nov 10 21:23:25 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, this is only a single case
Nov 10 21:23:26 <lcuk> is the author info available in the offline metadata HAM uses?
Nov 10 21:23:30 <GeneralAntilles> There are applications with much longer descriptions.
Nov 10 21:23:37 <lcuk> i know this is the online one
Nov 10 21:23:42 <serenity> noone an idea?
Nov 10 21:23:49 <GeneralAntilles> and your setup breaks sooner in those cases for no reason.
Nov 10 21:23:58 <GeneralAntilles> Other than "Because this is how I decided to do it first"
Nov 10 21:24:08 <lcuk> serenity, dunno, but dpkg is the same here as everywhere else
Nov 10 21:24:13 <lcuk> generic dox should help
Nov 10 21:24:16 <lcuk> in same way
Nov 10 21:24:31 <serenity> lcuk: yeah, but how to obtain a console?
Nov 10 21:24:59 <lcuk> go2shop, give cashier money, she will give you a console
Nov 10 21:25:27 <lcuk> what stage is the system stuck in
Nov 10 21:25:29 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: any examples of 7-row long description? :)
Nov 10 21:25:34 <lcuk> for you to not just open a console
Nov 10 21:25:47 <matt__> sudo gainroot : requires RD ... how do I set RD?
Nov 10 21:25:57 <lcuk> long descriptions can just extend
Nov 10 21:25:57 <Stskeeps> install 'rootsh'
Nov 10 21:26:06 <lcuk> and for the rarity it occurs the layout can adjust surely
Nov 10 21:26:14 * Stskeeps wonders who decided to put the usb plug where it is.
Nov 10 21:26:16 <serenity> lcuk: i installed a tool, but installation ended in the middle. After that, no catalogues are available and i can't add any
Nov 10 21:26:40 <lcuk> so whats all this about a console?
Nov 10 21:26:46 <greenfly> Stskeeps: someone who wanted to give any 3rd-party dock engineers a hard time?
Nov 10 21:27:05 <serenity> lcuk: i want to repair it
Nov 10 21:27:09 <Stskeeps> greenfly: for that purpose it isn't actually in a bad place
Nov 10 21:27:28 <greenfly> Stskeeps: depends on whether you'd want the dock to also access the headphone jack
Nov 10 21:27:28 <lcuk> wazd
Nov 10 21:28:05 <lcuk> where do you show descriptions
Nov 10 21:28:07 <lcuk> in that layout
Nov 10 21:28:30 <Stskeeps> greenfly: mm.
Nov 10 21:29:19 <lcuk> how do i tell the media scanner to only extract metadata from the filename of movies and mp3s
Nov 10 21:29:27 <lcuk> because i dont care about the stuff inside
Nov 10 21:29:42 <lcuk> and so it doesnt lockup everytime i drop another few tv episodes on
Nov 10 21:30:10 <lcuk> sorry, not lockup - slow down
Nov 10 21:30:10 <greenfly> uses trackerd so if you can tweak it, it would be like you'd tweak trackerd on an ubuntu machine
Nov 10 21:30:24 <lcuk> i use windows xp :)
Nov 10 21:30:33 <lcuk> well, until my computer arrives
Nov 10 21:31:01 <greenfly> I would imagine that you might have to wait until someone provides some configuration interface into it, then
Nov 10 21:31:30 * lcuk nods
Nov 10 21:31:36 <lcuk> its all complex linuxy stuff
Nov 10 21:31:46 <lcuk> i might have a play with the db
Nov 10 21:31:48 <lcuk> its only sqlite
Nov 10 21:32:56 <greenfly> lcuk: I see some people mentioning that the tracker daemon has a pre-set list of directories it scans
Nov 10 21:33:16 <lcuk> yeah, but it treats different filetypes differently
Nov 10 21:33:22 <greenfly> it might be possible to put media you don't want it to scan in a hidden directory, but then you also would have to use the file browser to access it
Nov 10 21:33:29 <lcuk> like windows has some evil thing for its searing
Nov 10 21:33:32 <lcuk> searching
Nov 10 21:33:43 <lcuk> yeah greenfly, thats kinda not the point
Nov 10 21:33:48 <lcuk> i want it accessible from media player
Nov 10 21:33:57 <lcuk> but it doesnt need to scan the entire damn file
Nov 10 21:34:06 <lcuk> or whatever it appears to be doing
Nov 10 21:34:14 <lcuk> it warns me its gonna be 10 mins or something
Nov 10 21:34:32 <lcuk> instead of a 5 second file list refresh
Nov 10 21:34:43 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: I had 23 minutes last time :-)
Nov 10 21:34:47 <lcuk> and for my purposes everything is catalogued in folders anyway
Nov 10 21:34:55 <Ceron^> lcuk: hello!
Nov 10 21:35:11 <greenfly> lcuk: if there is a solution, it'll be found in tweaking what trackerd does and doesn't do
Nov 10 21:35:14 <lcuk> hola Ceron^ !
Nov 10 21:35:21 <greenfly> but not sure how to do that currently
Nov 10 21:35:27 <Ceron^> lcuk: got anything new under development?
Nov 10 21:35:33 <lcuk> yeah greenfly ill find out one day
Nov 10 21:35:39 <lcuk> always Ceron^
Nov 10 21:35:44 <lcuk> well, apart from today
Nov 10 21:35:48 <lcuk> when i havent got an sdk
Nov 10 21:35:58 <lcuk> i somehow managed to destroy gtk
Nov 10 21:36:01 <lcuk> but kept clutter running
Nov 10 21:36:07 <lcuk> so the ui looks "interesting
Nov 10 21:36:09 <wazd> http://s51.radikal.ru/i131/0911/c5/f69e05f11fc1.png
Nov 10 21:36:25 <lcuk> gotcha wazd
Nov 10 21:36:39 <lcuk> now, if omweather had another couple of lines
Nov 10 21:36:44 <lcuk> would it be the end of the world to show em
Nov 10 21:36:50 <lcuk> and drop the next icon start down a bit
Nov 10 21:37:04 <GAN900> wazd, there you go. Though I still think the downloads should go near the stars.
Nov 10 21:37:19 * lcuk missaw lol
Nov 10 21:37:34 <wazd> GAN900: again, any button near close cross = fail :)
Nov 10 21:37:44 <wazd> GAN900: especially the most important one
Nov 10 21:38:25 <lcuk> move cross to bottom left :P
Nov 10 21:38:26 <wazd> lcuk: what icon?
Nov 10 21:38:37 <lcuk> its ok you are now showing a detailed view
Nov 10 21:38:40 <zaheerm> lcuk, the tracker on n900 uses gstreamer to extract the metadata from video and audio files
Nov 10 21:38:44 <lcuk> i thought you were showing the list with descriptions in
Nov 10 21:38:57 <lcuk> zaheerm, well it could just use the filesystem
Nov 10 21:39:07 <lcuk> theres no meta data worth extracting from my 350mb videos
Nov 10 21:39:36 <Ceron^> what about
Nov 10 21:39:38 <Ceron^> google maps!!!
Nov 10 21:39:41 <Ceron^> for n900
Nov 10 21:39:46 <zaheerm> lcuk, it doesn't read all 350MB of your files :)
Nov 10 21:39:51 <Ceron^> isnt it available yet :(
Nov 10 21:40:02 <lcuk> it takes 9 minutes to update meta data on 6 new files
Nov 10 21:40:03 <qwerty12_N810> google.co.uk/maps
Nov 10 21:40:09 <lcuk> it must be doing something drastic
Nov 10 21:40:14 <Ceron^> qwerty12_N810: that doesnt help me at all
Nov 10 21:40:18 <zaheerm> lcuk, well that is a bug!
Nov 10 21:40:22 <Ceron^> qwerty12_N810: no gps support
Nov 10 21:40:25 <zaheerm> lcuk, you should file it
Nov 10 21:40:28 <Ceron^> lame :(
Nov 10 21:40:36 <qwerty12_N810> Ceron^: oh, sorry: google.fi/maps
Nov 10 21:40:38 <pwnguin> Ceron^: my assupmtion is that google is leaving it android only
Nov 10 21:40:43 <zaheerm> Ceron^, n900 came out today, give google a chance to support it :P
Nov 10 21:40:46 <lcuk> i would if i had a publicly accessible url to share
Nov 10 21:40:59 <pwnguin> zaheerm: did it?
Nov 10 21:41:02 <lcuk> ie an example video
Nov 10 21:41:03 <Ceron^> zaheerm: well one would think n900 has been in googles hands for sometime now
Nov 10 21:41:03 <qwerty12_N810> Ceron^: Although, Maemo Mapper is being ported to Fremantle
Nov 10 21:41:07 <pwnguin> well ill be damned
Nov 10 21:41:08 <timeless_mbp> Ceron^: you can install geolocation for microb
Nov 10 21:41:13 <timeless_mbp> it's available as an addon
Nov 10 21:41:20 <timeless_mbp> i need to poke the google gears people
Nov 10 21:41:37 <timeless_mbp> wazd: hey
Nov 10 21:41:39 <zaheerm> Ceron^, no clue
Nov 10 21:41:42 <timeless_mbp> instead of buttons on the bottom
Nov 10 21:41:45 <timeless_mbp> can you use icons
Nov 10 21:42:01 <timeless_mbp> a bug icon, stars, a word bubble, and a package-plus
Nov 10 21:42:17 <wazd> timeless_mbp: maybe, but I'm too lazy do draw'em now :D
Nov 10 21:42:29 <timeless_mbp> wazd: add it to your to consider list?
Nov 10 21:42:32 <wazd> timeless_mbp: I thought icons can be good for portrait mode
Nov 10 21:42:47 <timeless_mbp> the reason to use it for landscape is that icons are fixed width
Nov 10 21:42:49 <wazd> timeless_mbp: it's already there :)
Nov 10 21:42:56 <timeless_mbp> text varies by locale
Nov 10 21:42:59 <timeless_mbp> and can easily suck
Nov 10 21:43:11 <timeless_mbp> there's a reason we only have 2 columns for buttons in general
Nov 10 21:43:25 <wazd> timeless_mbp: yep, I agree, but I really wanted to show basics :)
Nov 10 21:43:28 <timeless_mbp> icons can suck regionally (nokia manages to do that on windows, very impressive)
Nov 10 21:43:46 <timeless_mbp> but generally for your target audience, icons will win
Nov 10 21:44:04 <timeless_mbp> wazd: is this a replacement package manager?
Nov 10 21:44:46 <wazd> timeless_mbp: http://danielwilms.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/download-client-for-applications-in-extras/
Nov 10 21:45:03 <Milo-> hmm, will n900 be able to import s60v3 calendar, phonebook and sms's? with bluetooth?
Nov 10 21:45:50 <timeless_mbp> Milo-: sometimes/usually
Nov 10 21:45:55 <wazd> timeless_mbp: not sure if I have that little self-respect to work on package manager for maemo 5
Nov 10 21:46:06 <Milo-> timeless_mbp sounds fun :P
Nov 10 21:46:41 <timeless_mbp> i used pcsuite/pcsync to push my n81/e61i to outlook
Nov 10 21:46:49 <timeless_mbp> and then used activesync to pull to my n900
Nov 10 21:47:20 <Milo-> you already have one? :o
Nov 10 21:47:32 <timeless_mbp> i've already loaned out 2
Nov 10 21:47:40 <timeless_mbp> and arranged to loan 2 others
Nov 10 21:47:47 <timeless_mbp> but... i work for nokia on the browser...
Nov 10 21:47:53 <Milo-> ah, I see
Nov 10 21:48:20 <Milo-> According to a rumour said by someone, Nokia started delivering the phones to the stores today in Finland
Nov 10 21:48:35 <Milo-> shall see if I get a notification this week \o/
Nov 10 21:51:03 <wazd> Milo-: it's not a rumor
Nov 10 21:51:12 <wazd> Milo-: it's oficcial :)
Nov 10 21:51:14 <Milo-> I know, found an article from kauppalehti
Nov 10 21:51:18 <wazd> official*
Nov 10 21:52:25 <Milo-> hmm is N97 and N900 technically the same device, but with different OS?
Nov 10 21:52:33 <Stskeeps> no
Nov 10 21:52:33 <cehteh> no
Nov 10 21:52:42 <Milo-> okay, they seem very similiar
Nov 10 21:52:46 <GAN900> wazd, um, button?
Nov 10 21:53:11 <GAN900> Downloads the statistic is a button? . . . .
Nov 10 21:53:35 <wazd> GAN900: what? :)
Nov 10 21:53:53 <timeless_mbp> iirc n97 is omap2
Nov 10 21:53:56 <timeless_mbp> and n900 is omap3
Nov 10 21:55:02 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, some Samsung something or othefr ARM11
Nov 10 21:55:50 <GAN900> Milo-, other than being vaguely the same shape and both phones they really aren't similar in hardware or software.
Nov 10 21:56:12 <Milo-> well, software is a no-brainer
Nov 10 21:56:16 <GAN900> Nokia hasn't used an OMAP2 in anything in forever.
Nov 10 21:56:19 <Milo-> different OS says it all
Nov 10 21:56:36 <GAN900> Milo-, the N900 is AT LEAST twice as fast.
Nov 10 21:56:48 <Milo-> sounds like marketing talk
Nov 10 21:57:00 <GAN900> Significantly faster than that in certain cases.
Nov 10 21:57:13 <Milo-> gibber jabber
Nov 10 21:57:13 <GAN900> Milo-, no, those are hard numbers.
Nov 10 21:57:17 <timeless_mbp> the n810 was omap2, right?
Nov 10 21:57:40 <GAN900> Milo-, but clearly you're not interested in learning anything so I wont waste my breath.
Nov 10 21:57:46 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, yes.
Nov 10 21:57:49 * timeless_mbp wonders how short GAN900's forever is
Nov 10 21:57:55 <GAN900> OMAP2420
Nov 10 21:58:11 <GAN900> Well, in the ARM11 timeframe.
Nov 10 21:58:19 <Milo-> GAN900 I am, but 'AT LEAST twice as fast' is gibberish, it's never true, as far as benchmarking goes
Nov 10 21:58:29 <Stskeeps> Milo-: it is remarkably faster than omap2.
Nov 10 21:58:46 <GAN900> They moved on to non-TI SoCs really quickly.
Nov 10 21:58:48 <timeless_mbp> Milo-: comparing processor classes is pretty much impossible
Nov 10 21:58:49 <wazd> Milo-: it's twice as fast in WORST cases
Nov 10 21:58:56 * cehteh wonders how much faster maemo is in comparsion to android .. the VM there is quite good, but its still a vm
Nov 10 21:59:01 <wazd> Milo-: like "oh, it was bad day" and so on
Nov 10 21:59:12 <Stskeeps> cehteh: i multitask 24 windows without slowdown.
Nov 10 21:59:21 <cehteh> on android?
Nov 10 21:59:25 <Stskeeps> no, maemo.
Nov 10 21:59:39 <Stskeeps> and thats not even as intense as other people's attempts
Nov 10 21:59:39 <cehteh> well i asked about a comparsion :)
Nov 10 21:59:44 <Stskeeps> i don't use android. :P
Nov 10 21:59:59 <timeless_mbp> cehteh: buy a bunch and let us kbow
Nov 10 22:00:05 <timeless_mbp> be sure to document use cases in detail
Nov 10 22:00:09 <cehteh> haha donotwant
Nov 10 22:00:09 <kynky> stuff optmized fo the jvm will be fast, its the stuff that isnt thats slow i thought
Nov 10 22:00:18 <timeless_mbp> s/its/it's/
Nov 10 22:00:19 <kynky> so it depends
Nov 10 22:00:26 <timeless_mbp> but actually
Nov 10 22:00:32 <timeless_mbp> if they're using a hotspot or similar
Nov 10 22:00:34 <GAN900> jvms are never 'fast'
Nov 10 22:00:40 <timeless_mbp> then unoptimized doesn't necessarily mean it'll be slow
Nov 10 22:00:45 <timeless_mbp> it might just be big to download
Nov 10 22:00:58 * timeless_mbp doesn't know anything about android's vm
Nov 10 22:00:59 <kynky> tey can be, for instance on arm can do native jit on chip i think
Nov 10 22:02:08 <kynky> and if jvm is loaded in memory then loading an app into memory could be lower disk io, than a bigger c++ app, with its loader etc
Nov 10 22:02:10 <zaheerm-lp> mauku is not open source?
Nov 10 22:02:30 <zaheerm-lp> "You are NOT allowed to modify or redistribute the source code" in the source
Nov 10 22:02:48 <lardman> re
Nov 10 22:02:59 <kynky> all apples and oranges, benchmarks can be fiddled , but generally i would say maemo is faster than android, how much by, depends what your doing
Nov 10 22:03:03 <zaheerm-lp> there goes the patch i was going to write :)
Nov 10 22:03:50 <timeless_mbp> it can
Nov 10 22:03:50 <timeless_mbp> but e.g. maemo has no java support at all
Nov 10 22:03:50 <timeless_mbp> and it's not usually jit
Nov 10 22:03:50 <timeless_mbp> so much as actually *running* java bytecode
Nov 10 22:03:50 <timeless_mbp> that's not really jit
Nov 10 22:03:50 <timeless_mbp> unless you count bytecode to microcode as jit
Nov 10 22:03:52 <timeless_mbp> and i've never met anyone who does
Nov 10 22:03:54 <timeless_mbp> or did
Nov 10 22:03:58 <timeless_mbp> kynde: if one is lucky one can optimize ld to not suck
Nov 10 22:04:02 <timeless_mbp> but if a c++ app shares libraries w/ another (running) c++ app, it can get a similar win
Nov 10 22:04:04 <timeless_mbp> so that's not really a useful statement
Nov 10 22:04:06 <timeless_mbp> besides, maemo is C based, not c++ based :)
Nov 10 22:04:08 <timeless_mbp> (ignoring the browser)
Nov 10 22:04:10 <timeless_mbp> or at least maemo1-maemo5
Nov 10 22:04:12 <timeless_mbp> the future is open ;-)
Nov 10 22:04:13 <kynky> :)
Nov 10 22:04:14 <timeless_mbp> just a useless point, the n97 supports flash lite 3
Nov 10 22:04:16 <timeless_mbp> the n900 supports flash 9.4
Nov 10 22:04:18 <timeless_mbp> there's a huge difference
Nov 10 22:04:21 <timeless_mbp> ask a guy i met last week from MTV
Nov 10 22:04:35 <timeless_mbp> zaheerm: byte code patch the source and make the customer rebuild it :)
Nov 10 22:05:03 <kynky> you can do tricks in both java/jvm and c
Nov 10 22:05:03 <zaheerm-lp> timeless_mbp, :)
Nov 10 22:05:36 <Shapeshifter> in any case, you want to code in python.
Nov 10 22:05:38 <Shapeshifter> yes you do.
Nov 10 22:06:10 <GAN900> zaheerm-lp, he open sourced it a long time ago, I thought.
Nov 10 22:06:54 <qwerty12_N810> GAN900: He's made the source available, yes, but looking at the dates and that notice, I would not say it is "open"
Nov 10 22:07:28 <zaheerm-lp> yah open source doesn't mean providing source code
Nov 10 22:08:46 <kynky> other way around ?
Nov 10 22:08:56 <lcuk> bug 6108 added :)
Nov 10 22:08:57 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6108 tracker takes cpu and time when scanning media
Nov 10 22:09:21 <dmj726> heh.
Nov 10 22:09:28 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: it should take NO time at all to scan media?
Nov 10 22:09:37 <dmj726> WHy isn't mauku open source?
Nov 10 22:10:10 <zaheerm-lp> so question is why is mauku in maemo extras free not non-free?
Nov 10 22:10:12 <dmj726> I know what the definition of OSS is and all that, but why release the code and not FOSSify it?
Nov 10 22:10:17 <lcuk> timeless, i scan the same filesystem completely recursively and build up trees of data based on filename extremely quickly
Nov 10 22:10:21 <crashanddie__> gents, any specific reason why an SD card wouldn't mount (n900) ?
Nov 10 22:10:31 <crashanddie__> It appears in dmesg
Nov 10 22:10:33 <lcuk> it takes a few seconds
Nov 10 22:10:35 <zaheerm-lp> dmj726, no clue really, unless he wants to prevent fragmentation
Nov 10 22:10:35 <lcuk> not 9mins
Nov 10 22:10:40 <lcuk> dunno crashanddie
Nov 10 22:10:52 <cehteh> no filesystem?
Nov 10 22:10:58 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: so...
Nov 10 22:11:06 <timeless_mbp> we've discussed file system layout
Nov 10 22:11:12 <timeless_mbp> the problem is that it's kinda hard to deal w/
Nov 10 22:11:20 <dmj726> I really wouldn't worry about fragmentation, since it won't happen unless the original project is swirling the drain.
Nov 10 22:11:28 <timeless_mbp> in order for it to work, you have to have meta data in the fs explaining which algorithm you use for organizing your media
Nov 10 22:11:33 <crashanddie__> http://slexy.org/view/s21hsDMHrq
Nov 10 22:11:44 <lcuk> timeless, im not looking for a generic fix
Nov 10 22:11:50 <zaheerm-lp> dmj726, i am only speculating for the author, i have no clue
Nov 10 22:11:55 <lcuk> this is something a user will know, no computer can detect it
Nov 10 22:11:57 <lcuk> i know that
Nov 10 22:12:06 <lcuk> but i would like to help tracker.
Nov 10 22:12:24 <dmj726> zaheerm-lp: Did you see my mockups?
Nov 10 22:12:25 <lcuk> my movies and music is sorted and categroised by folder alone
Nov 10 22:12:25 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: tracker would need to let you tell it so that it could write a file
Nov 10 22:12:35 <timeless_mbp> otherwise it'd bother you each time you swapped between 2 cards
Nov 10 22:12:40 <zaheerm-lp> dmj726, re: video editor?
Nov 10 22:12:43 <dmj726> yes
Nov 10 22:12:52 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: but basically, if you want to do that
Nov 10 22:13:01 <zaheerm-lp> dmj726, can you provide me with the link again
Nov 10 22:13:02 <timeless_mbp> i suggest you work out a format and a patch for tracker upstream
Nov 10 22:13:02 <lcuk> timeless, config file? gconf? tracker itself does different things based on filetype
Nov 10 22:13:09 <lcuk> it already knows what kind of scan to run
Nov 10 22:13:15 <lcuk> cant i just change the type of scan
Nov 10 22:13:15 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: it needs to be tied to the specific card
Nov 10 22:13:19 <lcuk> to just be file
Nov 10 22:13:20 <VDVsx> humm, does anyone here tested/saw this app in the testing queue: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/free42/  ?
Nov 10 22:13:25 <lcuk> no
Nov 10 22:13:26 <lcuk> its not
Nov 10 22:13:31 <timeless_mbp> what happens if i give you a card w/ my media
Nov 10 22:13:35 <dmj726> original: http://imagebin.org/71044
Nov 10 22:13:35 <dmj726> next: http://imagebin.org/71163
Nov 10 22:13:40 <lcuk> in windows, i can change the scan type for "*.C" files
Nov 10 22:13:48 <lcuk> so that it can do full text search in it
Nov 10 22:14:02 <lcuk> without the change, windows search in files completely bypasses the .c files
Nov 10 22:14:13 <lcuk> i want to do the inverse
Nov 10 22:14:16 <lcuk> and ignore movies
Nov 10 22:14:22 <lcuk> or rather, the content of
Nov 10 22:14:47 <zaheerm-lp> dmj726, can you explain the different colours?
Nov 10 22:14:52 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: i'm suggesting a tactic that is likely to work
Nov 10 22:14:59 <timeless_mbp> if you get code into upstream which does what i suggest
Nov 10 22:15:08 <Shapeshifter> Are there zsh and screen for the n900?
Nov 10 22:15:12 <timeless_mbp> then it's unlikely nokia would actively break it when that arrived in a future product
Nov 10 22:15:17 <timeless_mbp> it might not be the default
Nov 10 22:15:19 <timeless_mbp> but it'd probably work
Nov 10 22:15:28 <dmj726> zaheerm-lp: let's move this to #pitivi, okay?  Too noisy here.
Nov 10 22:15:30 <timeless_mbp> and someone could write an app which let you write out those config files
Nov 10 22:15:41 <timeless_mbp> http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2917&idPhone1=2615
Nov 10 22:15:42 <timeless_mbp> fwiw
Nov 10 22:15:45 <lcuk> theres no need to touch my media
Nov 10 22:15:50 <lcuk> this is tracker config only
Nov 10 22:15:58 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: again
Nov 10 22:16:00 <lcuk> if a new filetype comes out *.wiggly
Nov 10 22:16:05 <timeless_mbp> what happens when i give you an sdcard
Nov 10 22:16:14 <lcuk> i scan it by filename
Nov 10 22:16:20 <crashanddie__> is there any manual command I could issue to mount the card?
Nov 10 22:16:25 <timeless_mbp> the sdcard has media i arranged according to some stupid algorithm which doesn't match yours
Nov 10 22:16:26 <lcuk> cos thats how i see it, its not a harm, its me looking
Nov 10 22:16:30 <lcuk> so
Nov 10 22:16:32 <lcuk> i get that now
Nov 10 22:16:36 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: mount -t vfat /dev/...
Nov 10 22:16:45 <crashanddie__> timeless, that's my point, which /dev?
Nov 10 22:17:14 <timeless_mbp> well, /dev/mmcblk0p1 is the MyDocs volume
Nov 10 22:17:25 <crashanddie__> ok, found it
Nov 10 22:17:37 <crashanddie__> http://slexy.org/view/s21hsDMHrq
Nov 10 22:17:38 <crashanddie__> damn
Nov 10 22:17:38 <crashanddie__> no
Nov 10 22:17:39 <crashanddie__> wrong cp
Nov 10 22:17:50 <timeless_mbp> which was actually in your output :)
Nov 10 22:18:13 <crashanddie__> yeah but the output is confusing
Nov 10 22:18:20 <crashanddie__> because it says mmcblk0, when really it's mmcblk1
Nov 10 22:18:38 <timeless_mbp> wiat
Nov 10 22:18:47 <timeless_mbp> is this your MyDocs volume
Nov 10 22:18:50 <timeless_mbp> or the external card?
Nov 10 22:18:50 <crashanddie__> no
Nov 10 22:18:53 <crashanddie__> external card
Nov 10 22:19:02 <timeless_mbp> iirc someone mentioned a bug about that
Nov 10 22:19:17 <timeless_mbp> glad to meet it :)
Nov 10 22:19:26 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 10 22:19:32 <timeless_mbp> these guys @gsmarena are wrong
Nov 10 22:19:44 <timeless_mbp> > Phonebook	Practically unlimited entries and fields,
Nov 10 22:19:49 <timeless_mbp> that's not true, the number is roughly 50
Nov 10 22:22:01 <lcuk> o_O
Nov 10 22:22:03 <lcuk> http://linux.die.net/man/5/tracker.cfg
Nov 10 22:22:15 <kalikianatoli> timeless_mbp, I suspect not so many people have contacts with 50 or more fields anyway :P
Nov 10 22:22:17 <lcuk> NoIndexFileTypes=FILEGLOB[;MORE;FILEGLOBS...]
Nov 10 22:22:17 <lcuk>     List of partial file patterns (glob) separated by semicolons that specify files not to index. Only basic metadata (i.e. information retrieved by stat(2)) is indexed
Nov 10 22:22:25 <lcuk> :D
Nov 10 22:22:33 * lcuk goes find out how to configure
Nov 10 22:25:25 <timeless_mbp> kalikianatoli: not the point
Nov 10 22:26:33 <Aksu> Hi! What database I should use for c++ development. I prefer an object-oriented one
Nov 10 22:26:43 <timeless_mbp> hey
Nov 10 22:26:46 <mikkov__> VDVsx: it's still possible to upload anything to maemo.org/downloads
Nov 10 22:26:54 <timeless_mbp> Aksu: don't.
Nov 10 22:27:10 <timeless_mbp> can someone please tell me precisely which games are *actually* included in the shipping n900 42-11 image?
Nov 10 22:27:23 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, find us a firmware image.
Nov 10 22:27:56 <Aksu> timeless_mbp: eh
Nov 10 22:28:14 <timeless_mbp> databases are typically SQL based
Nov 10 22:28:29 <timeless_mbp> unless you really want a database which is not SQL based, you should think about why
Nov 10 22:28:45 <timeless_mbp> bindings for SQL are available for most languages for most specific engines
Nov 10 22:29:38 <Shapeshifter> Aksu: well, if I'm not mistaken there are frameworks which access SQL databases but represent data as objects inside your app. I don't know about c++, but python for example has sqlalchemy which does that.
Nov 10 22:29:40 * cehteh sometimes regrets this sqlism
Nov 10 22:29:58 <Shapeshifter> it's called an "ORM"
Nov 10 22:30:00 <kalikianatoli> Aksu, sqlite is preinstalled, and it's quite nice for apps
Nov 10 22:30:07 <cehteh> why not datalog ... :P
Nov 10 22:30:07 <Shapeshifter> so there are ORMs for c++ for sure as well.
Nov 10 22:30:27 <Aksu> timeless_mbp: I am thinking about writing app for maemo for schools database-class. They would like it to be using oo- or xml-database
Nov 10 22:30:37 <lcuk> list of non relation database systems (not maemo specific) some might be available and interest folks.
Nov 10 22:30:40 <lcuk> http://spw.etherpad.com/7?
Nov 10 22:30:51 <Shapeshifter> Aksu: seems like DTL is something you might want.
Nov 10 22:31:15 <Shapeshifter> Aksu: but... what timeless_mbp said.
Nov 10 22:31:40 <timeless_mbp> personally, i'd call xmldb "pain"
Nov 10 22:31:52 <timeless_mbp> but i'm a browser engineer, xml = pain
Nov 10 22:32:53 <timeless_mbp> anyway. if you went w/ sql, i'd suggest sqlite
Nov 10 22:33:03 <timeless_mbp> it's simple, and there are bindings for most platforms
Nov 10 22:33:24 <timeless_mbp> of sql db's, i think it's the one gaining the fastest atm
Nov 10 22:33:34 <timeless_mbp> but it's typically used in process, not for large server apps
Nov 10 22:33:44 <timeless_mbp> if that matches your goals, it's probably not a bad choice
Nov 10 22:33:51 <timeless_mbp> it really depends on what you're modeling
Nov 10 22:33:55 <timeless_mbp> and how you intend to use it
Nov 10 22:33:59 <timeless_mbp> i don't actually like sql fwiw
Nov 10 22:34:21 <timeless_mbp> but, some of the alternatives are worse, and considerably less useful as knowledge portability goes
Nov 10 22:34:28 <timeless_mbp> (well, most of them are actually)
Nov 10 22:34:56 <Aksu> it would be a simple (disc)golf resultkeeper
Nov 10 22:34:57 <VDVsx> mikkov_, so it seems :(
Nov 10 22:34:59 <frals> after doing a db in xml, sql is a godsend
Nov 10 22:35:10 <VDVsx> X-Fade, We need you!!!!
Nov 10 22:35:17 <VDVsx> come back soon :P
Nov 10 22:35:30 * realitygaps hating nokia for making him use windows for the first time in years
Nov 10 22:36:37 <Aksu> well is there hibernate like technology for this
Nov 10 22:36:46 <Aksu> (hibernate for java)
Nov 10 22:37:09 <GeneralAntilles> realitygaps, hopefully the FIASCO image will be out in a few days.
Nov 10 22:37:44 <timeless_mbp> realitygaps: why do you need windows?
Nov 10 22:37:47 <timeless_mbp> to grabb the image?
Nov 10 22:38:58 <Aksu> or maybe it would be enough to write a databasemanager-class that gives out objects for some search parameters
Nov 10 22:39:45 <Aksu> (or forget about this and take the easy route :)
Nov 10 22:40:33 <Aksu> Shapeshifter: I'll check DTL
Nov 10 22:42:19 <realitygaps> timeless_mbp: to use the nokia software updater
Nov 10 22:50:59 <timeless_mbp> realitygaps: but why use it?
Nov 10 23:01:07 <crashanddie__> timeless, around?
Nov 10 23:01:46 <pinchartl> hi
Nov 10 23:01:57 <crashanddie__> hi pinchartl
Nov 10 23:02:21 <crashanddie__> GeneralAntilles, around?
Nov 10 23:07:19 <pinchartl> is the N900 officially available ? maemo.nokia.com seems to say so, but I was supposed to receive a notification by e-mail
Nov 10 23:07:47 <Stskeeps> shipping to stores
Nov 10 23:08:12 <pinchartl> I hope they will ship fast :-)
Nov 10 23:13:52 <lardman> anyone know if librest.so.0.6.1 would be considered newer than librest-0.6.so.0.0.0?
Nov 10 23:17:55 <crashanddie__> lardman, yes
Nov 10 23:18:05 <lardman> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html section 8.6.3
Nov 10 23:18:06 <crashanddie__> lardman, actually, they might not be considered as the same lib
Nov 10 23:18:12 <lardman> how does that make any sort of bloody sense
Nov 10 23:18:12 <lardman> ?
Nov 10 23:18:23 <lardman> crashanddie: cool
Nov 10 23:18:34 <lardman> libz 1 zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.3)
Nov 10 23:18:42 <lardman> where does the zlib1g stuff come from
Nov 10 23:18:43 <lardman> ?
Nov 10 23:18:45 <lardman> madness!
Nov 10 23:19:35 <lardman> crashanddie: yeah that's true, and fine by me
Nov 10 23:22:38 <pupnik_> haha
Nov 10 23:23:16 <pupnik_> that librest-0.6.so.0.0.0 looks badly named
Nov 10 23:24:03 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 10 23:24:09 <timeless_mbp> it should be librest0.so.0.6.0
Nov 10 23:24:10 <lardman> yeah
Nov 10 23:24:15 <timeless_mbp> who owns it
Nov 10 23:24:16 <lardman> I took it from debian like that
Nov 10 23:24:19 <lardman> me
Nov 10 23:24:29 <lardman> am about to name is something more sensible
Nov 10 23:26:31 <limepi> anyone in here know about apple BT keyboards?
Nov 10 23:29:29 <javispedro> man, google street view is creepy
Nov 10 23:30:07 <limepi> what does "device resources exceeded" mean
Nov 10 23:30:56 <timeless_mbp> limepi: sounds like bluetooth
Nov 10 23:31:09 <timeless_mbp> the protocol basically says "ouch, i'm exhausted"
Nov 10 23:31:13 <limepi> yeah, I'm trying to pair my apple BT keyboard
Nov 10 23:31:25 <timeless_mbp> limepi: btw, if you're using English, please try my locale
Nov 10 23:31:27 <jeremiah> Happy birthday frals
Nov 10 23:31:29 * timeless_mbp goes to fix something
Nov 10 23:31:32 <limepi> I updated some time ago and it quit working, I tried to troubleshoot
Nov 10 23:31:41 <frals> thanks :)
Nov 10 23:31:46 <limepi> my locale?
Nov 10 23:31:52 <limepi> like, the proper layout?
Nov 10 23:32:49 <timeless_mbp> actually
Nov 10 23:33:00 <timeless_mbp> i just saw a non lame onscreen keyboard today (tuesday)
Nov 10 23:34:28 <limepi> so you're telling me that I have no recourse, essentially?
Nov 10 23:34:43 <timeless_mbp> well
Nov 10 23:34:46 <timeless_mbp> i just got on
Nov 10 23:34:54 <timeless_mbp> so i missed the context
Nov 10 23:35:07 <timeless_mbp> in general, you're supposed to get rid of other BT devices that are paired to it
Nov 10 23:35:54 <limepi> I've never had anyone do a BT troubleshoot walkthrough
Nov 10 23:37:17 <timeless_mbp> well, i'm the wrong person
Nov 10 23:37:20 <timeless_mbp> i'm a translator
Nov 10 23:37:29 <timeless_mbp> so i've read all the strings and tried to understand them
Nov 10 23:37:32 <tbf> timeless_mbp: maemo5 has more C++ apps than just the browser
Nov 10 23:37:42 <timeless_mbp> you really want jhe
Nov 10 23:37:52 <timeless_mbp> tbf: part of mail is c++ too
Nov 10 23:37:52 <limepi> hmm
Nov 10 23:38:06 <timeless_mbp> but most of the platform isn't
Nov 10 23:38:19 <timeless_mbp> actually, maybe that's wrong
Nov 10 23:38:27 <timeless_mbp> since half the platform is built around the browser :)
Nov 10 23:38:39 <timeless_mbp> (tutorial, messaging, maps)
Nov 10 23:39:32 <tbf> timeless_mbp: even EDS got polluted with this C++ crap!
Nov 10 23:39:35 <javispedro> messaging? O.o
Nov 10 23:39:49 <timeless_mbp> the renderer for messaging is a browser engine
Nov 10 23:40:02 <timeless_mbp> afaik the rest of messaging is C
Nov 10 23:40:19 <timeless_mbp> but if you consider the fact that it's rendered by the browser, then... you can't not acknowledge C++
Nov 10 23:41:59 <tbf> timeless_mbp: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/evolution-data-server/addressbook/libebook-dbus/e-uchardet.cpp?revision=715&root=eds&view=markup
Nov 10 23:42:18 <timeless_mbp> tbf: oh yeah, that's a gecko file :)
Nov 10 23:42:47 <timeless_mbp> well...
Nov 10 23:43:31 <tbf> timeless_mbp: well, just the glue for some gecko code
Nov 10 23:43:49 <tbf> timeless_mbp: the gecko code is there: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/evolution-data-server/libuchardet/?root=eds
Nov 10 23:48:33 <tbf> timeless_mbp: btw, do you know a better method than BrowserRespView to get a pannable browser widget in Maemo5?
Nov 10 23:48:57 <timeless_mbp> sorry, ask romaxa
Nov 10 23:49:05 <tbf> romaxa: ^^^?
Nov 10 23:49:05 <timeless_mbp> i'm effectively upstream
Nov 10 23:49:09 <timeless_mbp> it's ~2am
Nov 10 23:49:18 <timeless_mbp> he left the office probably by 6pm or so
Nov 10 23:49:23 <timeless_mbp> we left after 11pm
Nov 10 23:49:58 <javispedro> ok, there's now a clear photograph of my shorts hanging out in google earth.
Nov 10 23:50:04 <tbf> timeless_mbp: ok.
Nov 10 23:50:04 <jaem> hey folks
Nov 10 23:50:15 <tbf> javispedro: hope the are clean
Nov 10 23:50:18 <javispedro> s/earth/street view
Nov 10 23:50:28 <jaem> I just picked up my (loaner) N900, and it won't charge :S
Nov 10 23:50:40 <jaem> is there anything special that I should know about that?
Nov 10 23:50:44 <javispedro> tbf: they are black (fortunately ;) )
Nov 10 23:50:47 <lardman> javispedro: big shorts!
Nov 10 23:50:49 <tbf> jaem: you have to use the nokia charger
Nov 10 23:50:55 <sp3000> that /sounds/ like what you might want, but then I barely ever read code :)
Nov 10 23:50:58 <jaem> tbf, oh really?
Nov 10 23:51:04 <jaem> a generic USB charger won't work?
Nov 10 23:51:09 <lardman> I know you can see the Great Wall of China and all... ;)
Nov 10 23:51:17 <javispedro> this is fuckingly scary
Nov 10 23:51:18 <tbf> jaem: generic chargers usually only give 500 mA
Nov 10 23:51:21 <javispedro> lardman: street view
Nov 10 23:51:32 <jaem> tbf, this one is rated for 1A
Nov 10 23:51:34 <lardman> ah ok :)
Nov 10 23:52:00 <tbf> jaem: hmm. strange. maybe just on paper.
Nov 10 23:52:11 <jaem> tbf, I'll dig out my other charger
Nov 10 23:52:14 <tbf> jaem: i once tried a cheap generic charger, and it even discharged the battery
Nov 10 23:52:27 <jaem> my prof had misplaced one of the Nokia chargers, so I don't currently have one >_<
Nov 10 23:53:14 <cehteh> tbf: so the n900 cant be charged at a laptop usb port?
Nov 10 23:53:25 <sp3000> it can
Nov 10 23:53:33 <cehteh> i was wondering already
Nov 10 23:53:37 <sp3000> although I think the results may be interesting if the laptop goes to sleep
Nov 10 23:53:40 <cehteh> that would be scary
Nov 10 23:53:45 <tbf> cehteh: your laptop usually is a much better power source
Nov 10 23:53:52 <timeless_mbp> so the n900 box had a nokia to usb adapter
Nov 10 23:53:55 <cehteh> my laptop provides usb power when sleeping
Nov 10 23:54:02 <timeless_mbp> which should let you use older nokia style chargers
Nov 10 23:54:10 <sp3000> (some)
Nov 10 23:54:17 <cehteh> tbf: nop it give a kernel errror "overcurrent on usb" ..
Nov 10 23:54:23 <tbf> cehteh: so unless you watch videos you can charge it with your laptop. you'll just have to wait for a while
Nov 10 23:54:28 <timeless_mbp> standard usb cables will allow 500mA if you're giving a usb service to a host
Nov 10 23:54:36 <timeless_mbp> chargers will typically offer 1-1.2mA
Nov 10 23:54:45 <cehteh> yeah ok
Nov 10 23:54:47 <timeless_mbp> i'm pretty sure that in general a 1A charger should work, but i've never tried
Nov 10 23:55:06 <tbf> timeless_mbp: no. typical usb chargers really just give 500 mA
Nov 10 23:55:12 <timeless_mbp> really?
Nov 10 23:55:14 <timeless_mbp> yuck
Nov 10 23:55:22 <cehteh> usb is rated 500ma
Nov 10 23:55:28 <tbf> timeless_mbp: once forgot my nokia charger and tried to buy an adequate charger
Nov 10 23:55:45 <cehteh> one of the major faults imo .. they should have rated it 2A and fine
Nov 10 23:55:50 <tbf> timeless_mbp: shop owners looked for the hidden camera when i told them that i need about 1A
Nov 10 23:55:54 <timeless_mbp> "1 Amp High Output USB travel charger"
Nov 10 23:56:02 <timeless_mbp> tbf: lol
Nov 10 23:56:23 <timeless_mbp> i think the apple usb chargers are 1A
Nov 10 23:56:27 <timeless_mbp> oh!
Nov 10 23:56:32 <jaem> odd
Nov 10 23:56:38 <timeless_mbp> i tried charging my n900 using a car's onboard port
Nov 10 23:56:41 <jaem> my other 1A charger doesn't work, either
Nov 10 23:56:43 <timeless_mbp> which works for an iPhone
Nov 10 23:56:46 <timeless_mbp> and it didn't work
Nov 10 23:56:49 <timeless_mbp> it claimed to be charging
Nov 10 23:56:51 <timeless_mbp> but didn't charge
Nov 10 23:56:54 <timeless_mbp> that was odd :(
Nov 10 23:56:56 <jaem> the indicator isn't doing anything
Nov 10 23:56:59 <jaem> I'll doublecheck lshal
Nov 10 23:57:20 <jaem> nope - not charging
Nov 10 23:57:40 * cehteh thought about charging from bike dynamo :P
Nov 10 23:57:53 <tbf> cehteh: do you have a link for the 500 mA
Nov 10 23:57:56 <cehteh> needs some elektronic of course
Nov 10 23:58:47 <cehteh> tbf: actuall its even worse i think 50 (or only 20) mA are allowed without arbitation .. anyhing beyond has to be negotiated with the host controler
Nov 10 23:58:48 <lardman> hmm, my new librest looks like so: librest.so.0.0.0
Nov 10 23:58:50 <jaem> tbf, a standard Nokia USB cable should work, right?
Nov 10 23:58:55 <lardman> so closer, but still no cigar
Nov 10 23:59:46 <tbf> cehteh: would be awesome to show it some lazy PM
Nov 10 23:59:59 <tbf> cehteh: he closed a bug about his software consuming > 600 mA, as invalid and asked for the spec :-D
Nov 11 00:00:12 <tbf> (fortunately for the device he got overruled)
Nov 11 00:00:20 <cehteh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power
Nov 11 00:01:02 <cehteh> eww .. some mainboards have 500mA soldered in smd fuses
Nov 11 00:01:22 <cehteh> means when a device draws more then the mainboard is bricked
Nov 11 00:01:28 <tbf> jaem: for charging via usb port? yes. it somewhat works. if your notebook doesn't have such fuses!
Nov 11 00:01:29 <cehteh> at least that usb port
Nov 11 00:01:43 <timeless_mbp> cehteh: nice
Nov 11 00:01:51 <cehteh> well these are not common ... that was in the old days when usb was new
Nov 11 00:02:24 <cehteh> today the current is limited by automatic fuses or even electronically regulated and shut down by a µC
Nov 11 00:02:27 <lardman> anyone know how the libs are named?
Nov 11 00:02:56 <jaem> when the N900 is powered off, is there any indication of it charging, like the N810 does?
Nov 11 00:03:02 <timeless_mbp> jaem: yes
Nov 11 00:03:09 <timeless_mbp> the led /can/ light
Nov 11 00:03:12 <timeless_mbp> or not, your choice
Nov 11 00:03:25 <jaem> it's going "orange...orange...green...*ding*"
Nov 11 00:03:34 <timeless_mbp> green=it thinks it's charged
Nov 11 00:03:40 <jaem> :S
Nov 11 00:03:47 <jaem> well, lshal said about 21mAh
Nov 11 00:04:06 <javispedro> I wonder who decided to send the google street bycicle down spanish villages
Nov 11 00:04:15 <GeneralAntilles> tbf, all of the USB wallwarts I've encountered output about 700-2000mA
Nov 11 00:04:44 <jaem> yay - now it's charging
Nov 11 00:04:46 <jaem> weird
Nov 11 00:05:00 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, I've spotted a bunch of my friends wandering around town on street view.
Nov 11 00:05:19 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: they've decided to do _very_ small towns now in spain
Nov 11 00:05:33 <tbf> GeneralAntilles: seems you only interact with dealers that have the good stuff
Nov 11 00:05:45 <GeneralAntilles> tbf, :shrug: usual online places.
Nov 11 00:06:04 <javispedro> the kind of towns I'd assume you would get shot at just by entering them in the US.
Nov 11 00:06:11 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Nov 11 00:06:19 <mikhas> I heard that's how you say hello over there
Nov 11 00:06:21 <tbf> GeneralAntilles: seems those "usual online places" still sell better stuff than the average
Nov 11 00:06:24 <cehteh> are there external (USB-Cable) battery packs?
Nov 11 00:06:26 <GeneralAntilles> Foreigners have strange ideas about the US.
Nov 11 00:06:33 <javispedro> :)
Nov 11 00:06:42 <mikhas> US has strange ideas about the world, too =p
Nov 11 00:06:45 <GeneralAntilles> tbf, DealExtreme, Boxwave, Newegg, Amazon, etc.
Nov 11 00:06:46 <cehteh> reading the wikipedia article such should be easy to build :)
Nov 11 00:06:47 <tbf> GeneralAntilles: just enter a regular phone shop and ask for a micro USB charger
Nov 11 00:06:49 <jaem> cehteh, yes, IOGear makes some good ones
Nov 11 00:06:54 <jaem> and what GA said
Nov 11 00:07:10 <GeneralAntilles> mikhas, despite whatever you may think and whatever Hollywood has tried to teach you, the US is not the Wild West. :)
Nov 11 00:07:10 <tbf> GeneralAntilles: i've tried several offline phone shops and they all only had crap chargers
Nov 11 00:07:33 <GeneralAntilles> tbf, for the price, I'd just pick up an AC-10 and call it a day. ;)
Nov 11 00:07:36 <VDVsx> a Portuguese couple sued google because street view failed blurring their faces, eheheh
Nov 11 00:08:09 <lardman> ah crap, why do librest, libchamplain and libethos all have to have silly libNAME-X.x.so.X.x.x naming schemes?!
Nov 11 00:08:11 <javispedro> VDVsx: they have now "street viewed" nearly ALL towns of spain
Nov 11 00:08:16 <cehteh> jaem: found it .. nice
Nov 11 00:08:20 <javispedro> which is, at least, shocking
Nov 11 00:08:21 <mikhas> GA, if it is not the wild west then I am not interested, thanks. please unsubscribe me from your newsletter and stop sending me those promo vids
Nov 11 00:08:34 <tbf> "Don't be evil!" :-D
Nov 11 00:08:37 * SpeedEvil wants to openstreetview his local town.
Nov 11 00:08:44 <VDVsx> javispedro, only the big ones here
Nov 11 00:08:45 <SpeedEvil> It's only 2-300G of imagery
Nov 11 00:08:54 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: Google has done that to my birthplace!
Nov 11 00:08:55 <jaem> tbf, "...unless it makes us loads of money"
Nov 11 00:09:18 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: yeah - but the streetview imagery is very, very closed.
Nov 11 00:09:21 <mikhas> Making money is fulfilling the will of god, no?
Nov 11 00:09:25 <cehteh> jaem: mhm only 2000mah .. but cheap
Nov 11 00:09:40 <SpeedEvil> In that you can look at it - but do nothing else
Nov 11 00:09:50 <jaem> the one I have fits in one of those old Motorola belt cases
Nov 11 00:10:01 <jaem> ...or am I the only one that likes having a utility belt
Nov 11 00:10:45 <javispedro> I don't know if Google "was feeling lucky" today with the lawsuits or what
Nov 11 00:11:03 <javispedro> cause I can count the blurred faces with my fingers -- the rest are clearly visible
Nov 11 00:11:09 <javispedro> I can recognize a shitload of people
Nov 11 00:11:54 <timeless_mbp> hey
Nov 11 00:11:57 <timeless_mbp> i'm not feeling lucky
Nov 11 00:12:15 <timeless_mbp> can someone find the official public source repos for "lsof", "klsof" and "glsof" ? :)
Nov 11 00:12:45 <Corsac> apt-cache show lsof | grep Homepage
Nov 11 00:12:45 <Corsac> Homepage: http://people.freebsd.org/~abe/
Nov 11 00:13:29 * timeless_mbp ponders
Nov 11 00:13:39 <timeless_mbp> he doesn't have a vcs
Nov 11 00:13:52 <Corsac> not sure it's still worked on :/
Nov 11 00:14:07 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: it is
Nov 11 00:14:24 <timeless_mbp> at least, it was recently enough for me to get into the credits :)
Nov 11 00:14:28 <Corsac> uhuh
Nov 11 00:14:35 <timeless_mbp> seriously :)
Nov 11 00:14:42 <Corsac> new upstream releaes in oct 2007, sep 2008, feb 2009
Nov 11 00:14:47 <Corsac> definitely :)
Nov 11 00:14:50 <Corsac> not much, but still
Nov 11 00:15:06 <Corsac> hey kalikianafk
Nov 11 00:15:13 <tbf> timeless_mbp: real man don't need no stinkin' vcs
Nov 11 00:15:14 <timeless_mbp> how about klsof and glsof?
Nov 11 00:15:25 <timeless_mbp> tbf: real men use the world as a dvcs?
Nov 11 00:15:32 <kalikianafk> Corsac, :D
Nov 11 00:18:11 <crashanddie__> ~ping
Nov 11 00:18:12 <infobot> ~pong
Nov 11 00:27:09 <b-man17> ~coin
Nov 11 00:27:10 <infobot> coin is probably flipped... heads or tails?
Nov 11 00:27:18 <luke-jr> ...
Nov 11 00:27:44 <b-man17> ~heads
Nov 11 00:28:07 <luke-jr> b-man17: yandere
Nov 11 00:28:22 <b-man17> k
Nov 11 00:49:03 <lardman> night all
Nov 11 01:24:59 * wiretapped just watched http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxiOKKF721U WTF
Nov 11 01:25:50 * sp3000 grumbles at chatzilla and/or irssi
Nov 11 01:27:02 <sp3000> it's really really useful to try to reclaim a nick 50 times at stupidly short intervals, and then give up after a stupidly short time total :)
Nov 11 01:28:25 <sp3000> (although the timeout in these parts seems to be a ...rather generous 10min?)
Nov 11 01:29:48 <n1c0> hello maemo folks
Nov 11 01:29:55 * sp3000 prefers exponential backoffs
Nov 11 01:30:47 <n1c0> is maemo friendly to "ubuntu mid"
Nov 11 01:31:10 <SpeedEvil> No, it hates it, and tries to kill it on sight.
Nov 11 01:33:28 <n1c0> where is the limit between nokia os and maemo ?
Nov 11 01:34:05 <GeneralAntilles> wiretapped, yeah, that's really bizarre.
Nov 11 01:34:24 <GeneralAntilles> n1c0, Nokia OS? i.e., S40?
Nov 11 01:34:45 <n1c0> diablo5 maybe im lost
Nov 11 01:34:52 <derf> Why should any timer be needed at all if you're in a channel where your ghost is?
Nov 11 01:35:06 <GeneralAntilles> n1c0, Diablo is Maemo 4.
Nov 11 01:35:21 <GeneralAntilles> Maemo is the OS that ships on the 770, N800, N810 and N900.
Nov 11 01:35:25 <GeneralAntilles> It's based on Debian.
Nov 11 01:36:23 <n1c0> maemo5 would be able only for n900 , or other tablet may have it too ?
Nov 11 01:36:42 <GeneralAntilles> n1c0, it's only being officially released for the N900.
Nov 11 01:36:56 <GeneralAntilles> n1c0, but the open source parts of that will be released for earlier devices with
Nov 11 01:36:58 <GeneralAntilles> ~mer
Nov 11 01:36:59 <infobot> it has been said that mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer
Nov 11 01:37:23 <GeneralAntilles> AndrewFBlack, love your avatar. :P
Nov 11 01:40:10 <n1c0> with n810, i can't enter wpa passphrase with non-alphanumeric chars
Nov 11 01:40:24 <n1c0> can i edit the psk-key by hand  to insert special chars ?
Nov 11 01:41:55 <n1c0> it s a strong limitation for an mobile device
Nov 11 01:41:57 <timeless_mbp> things are generally stored in gconf
Nov 11 01:42:16 <timeless_mbp> whether they work is another question
Nov 11 01:42:19 <timeless_mbp> is there a bug filed?
Nov 11 01:43:09 <n1c0> no, i dont which app is the buggy wizard
Nov 11 01:43:40 <realitygaps> the n900 windows NSU updater frozen at 15 minutes remaining for over an hour. If i disconnect will I end up with a brick???? Any ideas?
Nov 11 01:44:17 * realitygaps remembering why he ditched proprietary software all those years ago
Nov 11 01:47:45 <lcuk> realitygaps, it might be busy..
Nov 11 01:48:08 <realitygaps> lcuk: for so long? it seems nothing has moved since it started....
Nov 11 01:48:15 * lcuk shrugs
Nov 11 01:48:20 <lcuk> everything did go live today
Nov 11 01:48:29 <sp3000> derf: I don't actually have a desire to touch it manually :)
Nov 11 01:48:32 <lcuk> people have been happily updating on the whole
Nov 11 01:48:36 * lcuk beds anyway
Nov 11 01:48:40 <realitygaps> lcuk: i know, if consumers get these sorts of problems tho they will be pissed....
Nov 11 01:49:09 <sp3000> derf: also, not paying attention until later, and having a off-by-one nick and a bunch of server spam
Nov 11 01:49:34 <realitygaps> could it be completely bricked if i pull the cable?
Nov 11 01:49:35 <derf> sp3000: I don't know what you're using in irssi, but keepnick.pl reclaims the nick immediately after the quit message.
Nov 11 01:49:57 <sp3000> derf: that sounds entirely too smart
Nov 11 01:50:32 <GeneralAntilles> I like when you answer people's questions on Talk then they fly off into a rant like you tried to insult them.
Nov 11 01:50:47 <derf> Didn't you quit Talk?
Nov 11 01:51:09 * realitygaps pulls cable from n900 and prays to the FSM
Nov 11 01:51:51 <GeneralAntilles> derf, yeah, staid clean for 5 days, now I'm trying just watching General/Community/Maemo 6.
Nov 11 01:51:55 <GeneralAntilles> derf, it's not working. :(
Nov 11 01:52:03 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 11 01:52:09 <timeless_mbp> drugs are bad for you
Nov 11 01:52:20 <sp3000> realitygaps: yeah, when people talk about full screen mode, I'm just reminded of spaghetti
Nov 11 01:52:27 <derf> I've been /.-free for exactly 8 years, to the day.
Nov 11 01:52:40 <GeneralAntilles> derf, impressive.
Nov 11 01:52:47 <realitygaps> derf. v. impressive :)
Nov 11 01:52:57 * GeneralAntilles still loads digg every couple months out of old habit.
Nov 11 01:53:21 * realitygaps is mostly on reddit
Nov 11 01:54:34 <derf> I've managed to avoid both of those.
Nov 11 01:54:58 <realitygaps> well pulling the cable didnt brick the device, had to hard reboot by pulling the battery and the rom is still .41-10
Nov 11 01:55:00 <derf> At least beyond the occasional, non-addictive visit when something else links there.
Nov 11 01:55:21 <dmj726> Is there a ui element for a slide out menu like in this: http://imagebin.org/71163
Nov 11 02:00:39 <pwnguin> reddit / slashdot arent bad in moderation
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 11 02:59:56 2009