**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 12 02:59:57 2009
Nov 12 03:00:32 <pupnik> Livingroom: tra with another drvice first - oc, laptop
Nov 12 03:00:35 <pupnik> pc
Nov 12 03:00:39 <pupnik> try
Nov 12 03:20:01 <Livingroom> pupnik: tried it, cant connect into or out of the n800.
Nov 12 03:20:10 <Livingroom> pupnik: all other computers communicate properly
Nov 12 03:23:12 <Livingroom> goddamnit this is pissing me off, now
Nov 12 03:23:19 <Livingroom> my wifi is not working at all like it's supposed to
Nov 12 03:23:34 <Livingroom> it's got no throughput, fraught with "no route to host" errors and you cant connect into the device
Nov 12 03:24:02 <Livingroom> guess i have to reinstall. *sigh*
Nov 12 03:32:10 <Livingroom> whats the latest n800 firmware?
Nov 12 03:32:13 <Livingroom> and how do i tell what version i have?
Nov 12 03:40:13 <penguinbait> control panel > About
Nov 12 03:40:30 <GeneralAntilles> 47-3
Nov 12 03:44:09 <dmj726> I see usbcontrol in the repos.  Is that any indication of usb host capacity?
Nov 12 03:51:06 <GeneralAntilles> dmj726, no.
Nov 12 03:51:10 <dmj726> ok
Nov 12 03:51:55 <Livingroom> i have version 5.2008.43-7
Nov 12 04:07:09 * timeless_mbp frowns
Nov 12 04:07:18 <timeless_mbp> ok, so... i killed my resolv.conf
Nov 12 04:07:22 <timeless_mbp> and rebooted
Nov 12 04:07:29 <timeless_mbp> and got the comcast dns entry back
Nov 12 04:13:59 <GeneralAntilles> Comcast: It's Virally Comcastic
Nov 12 04:28:29 <Xisdibik> GeneralAntilles: I actualy have pretty good experiance with Comcast internet
Nov 12 04:28:47 <Xisdibik> Considering we pay for 12mbps down  2-3 mbps up, and get 16mbps down,  9mbps up :)
Nov 12 04:29:17 <dmj726> Right now I'm getting ~8 MBps down
Nov 12 04:29:28 <Xisdibik> what part of the world are you in?
Nov 12 04:29:47 <dmj726> USA I'm at a dorm
Nov 12 04:29:54 <Xisdibik> dorms have comcast?
Nov 12 04:29:56 <dmj726> no
Nov 12 04:30:04 <dmj726> ...COmcast was slower
Nov 12 04:30:09 <Xisdibik> wow really
Nov 12 04:30:12 <Xisdibik> what part of the US of A
Nov 12 04:30:19 <dmj726> Also I get about the same up speed as down
Nov 12 04:30:33 <Xisdibik> well thats because there on a direct LAN
Nov 12 04:30:42 <dmj726> Keep in mind that I said 8 MBps not Mbps
Nov 12 04:30:54 <Xisdibik> ah, heh
Nov 12 04:31:13 <dmj726> also comcast has a cap of 250 GB per month
Nov 12 04:31:18 <Xisdibik> oh ur not even the person who was talking about comcast :P
Nov 12 04:31:22 <Xisdibik> well most dorms have a cap
Nov 12 04:31:26 <Xisdibik> my schools was 10GB/week
Nov 12 04:31:26 <dmj726> illinois
Nov 12 04:31:47 <luke-jr> 10 GB/week is ridiculously low
Nov 12 04:31:52 <Xisdibik> indeed luke-jr
Nov 12 04:31:54 <dmj726> I'm not at a university dorm, so we don't have a cap
Nov 12 04:32:02 <Xisdibik> dorm for what then?
Nov 12 04:32:15 <dmj726> it's a private dorm at the university
Nov 12 04:32:17 <luke-jr> 10 GB/week = 32 kbps
Nov 12 04:32:26 <dmj726> better than the university run ones
Nov 12 04:32:29 <luke-jr> wait, no
Nov 12 04:32:30 <luke-jr> 125 kbps
Nov 12 04:33:16 <luke-jr> 250 GB cap is at least slightly reasonable-- over 700 kbps
Nov 12 04:33:46 <Xisdibik> yea, and most people dont use that much :P
Nov 12 04:33:55 <Xisdibik> do you really need to torrent 250GB / month?
Nov 12 04:34:13 <dmj726> I never went over it, but I don't like the feeling of that.
Nov 12 04:34:31 <luke-jr> unlikely
Nov 12 04:34:33 <Xisdibik> meh alot of things have limits
Nov 12 04:34:40 <dmj726> the 250 GB thing is also listed as unlimited
Nov 12 04:34:47 <luke-jr> my past month was merely 92 GB combined up+down
Nov 12 04:35:01 <Xisdibik> even vonage and stuff like that with "unlimited minutes" actualy have some rediculously high cap, but its there
Nov 12 04:35:01 <dmj726> 250 total up and down
Nov 12 04:35:14 <luke-jr> that's false advertising then
Nov 12 04:35:21 <luke-jr> go for a class action lawsuit -.-
Nov 12 04:35:24 <Xisdibik> no, its some legal issue
Nov 12 04:35:34 <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, AOL definition.
Nov 12 04:35:41 <GeneralAntilles> Meaning you can use it at any time.
Nov 12 04:35:45 <GeneralAntilles> Lawsuit is unlikely to work.
Nov 12 04:35:54 <luke-jr> ?
Nov 12 04:36:14 <GeneralAntilles> "Unlimited" doesn't mean you can use as much bandwidth as you want, it means you can use it as often as you want.
Nov 12 04:36:19 <GeneralAntilles> It's from the AOL dial-up days.
Nov 12 04:36:20 <luke-jr> pfft
Nov 12 04:36:25 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I know.
Nov 12 04:36:29 <GeneralAntilles> But what are you gonna do?
Nov 12 04:36:37 <GeneralAntilles> Courts will uphold their "definition".
Nov 12 04:37:20 <luke-jr> actually, it does kinda make sense there
Nov 12 04:37:31 <luke-jr> it's not like they contrast it with other caps
Nov 12 04:37:31 <dmj726> The "announcement" of the 250 GB cap was in order to prevent legal action, since they got caught doing it in certain places without it being publicly know.
Nov 12 04:37:39 <luke-jr> I don't know what excuse Vonage might have
Nov 12 04:38:20 <dmj726> That said, I'm happy with my dorm internet, actually unlimited, fast, symetric connection
Nov 12 04:38:36 <dmj726> ...Ubuntu downloads in 2 minutes.
Nov 12 04:44:54 <Cray> guys, fresh install on an n800- extremely slow wifi connectivity. worked before same router. what gives?
Nov 12 04:45:31 <RedPenguin> Is it a Linksys router? If so, unplugging those seems to boost speed.
Nov 12 04:45:57 <RedPenguin> Note: Other brands due apply as well.
Nov 12 04:46:55 <Cray> no, it's a belkin
Nov 12 04:47:07 <RedPenguin> I would try it anyway
Nov 12 04:47:23 <Cray> um
Nov 12 04:47:48 <Cray> unplugging the router, i.e. "depriving your NAT-box of Electricity" tends to slow things down to the point of unusability
Nov 12 04:48:33 <RedPenguin> odd, my network always snapped back to normal after plugging it back in
Nov 12 04:49:17 <RedPenguin> I was hoping that my previous statement implied to plug it back in after unplugging it.
Nov 12 04:49:57 <RedPenguin> Guess power cycle would have been a much better way of saying it.
Nov 12 04:52:02 <luke-jr> lol
Nov 12 04:53:04 <Cray> oh
Nov 12 04:53:05 <Cray> well
Nov 12 04:53:09 <Cray> yeah i did that 3 times already
Nov 12 04:53:45 <RedPenguin> Well, that obviously that isn't going to help then.
Nov 12 04:54:36 <luke-jr> unless you're insane
Nov 12 04:54:42 <luke-jr> if so, try again
Nov 12 04:55:48 <RedPenguin> Like I said, every Linksys I've ever seen seems to get a "temporary clog" to where no connections go through it, but unplugging it fixes that.
Nov 12 04:56:47 <luke-jr> meh, it's your fault for using ugly hacks like NAT
Nov 12 04:57:15 <luke-jr> should be assigning globally routable IPs to every toaster and mouse
Nov 12 04:57:35 <dmj726> Yeah, nice static IP addresses for all!
Nov 12 04:57:53 <dmj726> That way I can host a dozen web servers from home.
Nov 12 04:58:07 <dmj726> and one from my pocket!
Nov 12 04:58:13 <luke-jr> web servers don't need dedicated IPs...
Nov 12 04:58:47 <dmj726> no, but it makes things nicer, especially if the ip isn't changing every couple days
Nov 12 04:59:59 <RedPenguin> I one time tried to picture life, without DNS with commericals saying, instead of Google It, 74.125.53.100 It!
Nov 12 05:00:29 <dmj726> hehe
Nov 12 05:01:01 <RedPenguin> I'm pretty much the only person in all of my computer friends that actually can remember an IP. Others can't even remember their own.
Nov 12 05:01:08 <dmj726> dns works better if it doesn't have to keep track of random ip changes
Nov 12 05:01:34 <dmj726> I can remember a limited set
Nov 12 05:02:28 <RedPenguin> Same here, but seems your own IP would be the number one to remember.
Nov 12 05:02:34 <luke-jr> RedPenguin: I can memorize pi, but IPs are just too long :/
Nov 12 05:02:58 <RedPenguin> Every single number of pi?
Nov 12 05:03:03 <luke-jr> lol no
Nov 12 05:03:10 <dmj726> luke-jr: Please type all of pi in this channel.
Nov 12 05:03:12 <luke-jr> just 30-50 digits
Nov 12 05:03:28 <RedPenguin> oh
Nov 12 05:04:19 <luke-jr> I think back in the old IPv4 days I had a few memorized.
Nov 12 05:04:24 <luke-jr> but they were much shorter then
Nov 12 05:10:43 <RedPenguin> Netmasks are always fun, because people can't just say 255x3 or something
Nov 12 05:11:02 <RedPenguin> They make you sit through 255 DOT 255 DOT 255 DOT 0
Nov 12 05:11:26 <Cray> AAAUGH this is F*WUFGHS aggravating
Nov 12 05:11:31 <Cray> why is my wifi throughput almost NIL????????
Nov 12 05:11:48 <Cray> how can i "hard reset" the n800 back to factory?
Nov 12 05:14:36 <Nitial> re-flash it?
Nov 12 05:24:14 <Cray> magically, my throughput seems to have returned
Nov 12 05:24:17 <Cray> what
Nov 12 05:24:18 <Cray> the
Nov 12 05:24:18 <Cray> fark
Nov 12 05:28:58 <Cray> now it's gone again *sigh*
Nov 12 06:00:10 <Cray> what is the recommended reset method if the device is unresponsive?
Nov 12 06:01:40 <johnx> ssh :)
Nov 12 06:02:07 <Klowner> don't shush him, it's a valid question!
Nov 12 06:02:25 <johnx> :D
Nov 12 06:02:26 <luke-jr> ;)
Nov 12 06:03:03 <Cray> lol
Nov 12 06:03:13 <Cray> my router is haywire, thats my opinion
Nov 12 06:03:19 <Cray> all internetwork communication is frozen
Nov 12 06:03:26 <Cray> all wireless devices are suffering from massive lag
Nov 12 06:03:35 <Cray> or *intranetwork* communication
Nov 12 06:03:48 <johnx> you've crippled the internet! noooo...
Nov 12 06:04:04 <Klowner> henceforth known only as the internot
Nov 12 06:04:09 <Cray> wow this is gay
Nov 12 06:04:12 <Cray> it's totally f*cked up
Nov 12 06:04:54 <Cray> Defiant cant talk to Excelsior (my n800) who cant talk to mirand or akira. goddamnit. and enterprise cant ssh to any of them. what the living hell
Nov 12 06:05:11 <Cray> ever since i enabled wpa
Nov 12 06:05:51 <Cray> brb. installing backup router
Nov 12 06:07:01 <johnx> speaking of b0kenness...I managed to freeze the UI on my n900 and ssh is not responsive, but tapping the screen will un-dim the backlight
Nov 12 06:08:52 <Livingroom> emergency backup router installed. testing to commence
Nov 12 06:12:50 <RST38h> moo all
Nov 12 06:12:57 <RST38h> Any maemo.org admins here at the moment?
Nov 12 06:16:37 <johnx> anyone know how to trick the windows based nokia software update into saving an update image file but not flashing it?
Nov 12 06:17:23 <blarg> ok
Nov 12 06:17:54 <Livingroom> there we go
Nov 12 06:17:55 <Livingroom> ok
Nov 12 06:18:09 <Livingroom> with all the crap out of the way, back on target
Nov 12 06:18:12 <Livingroom> maemo-pan.
Nov 12 06:18:26 <Livingroom> anyone here tether their nXXX to an iphone?
Nov 12 06:18:46 <Livingroom> i'm doing so, but unless i specify an ip for the bnep0 manually, it never grabs an addr from dhcp
Nov 12 06:19:01 <Livingroom> there's alot of chatter about bad packets or something in the udhcpc -i runtime
Nov 12 06:19:14 <Livingroom> and then when i manually specify a DNS, it fails to resolve.
Nov 12 06:19:16 <Livingroom> any suggestions?
Nov 12 06:19:20 <johnx> have you tethered a linux box to your iphone successfully?
Nov 12 06:19:24 <Livingroom> hmm
Nov 12 06:19:26 <Livingroom> no, only windows
Nov 12 06:19:36 <johnx> but at least windows is ok with it?
Nov 12 06:19:39 <Livingroom> yup
Nov 12 06:19:52 <Livingroom> windows xp, 7, mobile 2003se, etc. they all love it
Nov 12 06:19:58 <johnx> so when you specify an address manually you can ping out to IP addresses with no (or little) packet loss?
Nov 12 06:20:03 <Livingroom> yes
Nov 12 06:20:06 <Livingroom> they go right through
Nov 12 06:20:12 <Livingroom> and i can download files from an ip at like 12k over edge
Nov 12 06:20:18 <Livingroom> so the connection is very stable
Nov 12 06:20:24 <johnx> can you nslookup?
Nov 12 06:20:25 <Livingroom> the iphone lights up in tethering mode, too
Nov 12 06:20:26 <Livingroom> no
Nov 12 06:20:28 <Livingroom> i cannot.
Nov 12 06:20:35 <Livingroom> it does the usual address1 line
Nov 12 06:20:41 <Livingroom> and then after 3 minutes tells me it cant.
Nov 12 06:21:13 <johnx> try this: nslookup google.com 216.239.32.10
Nov 12 06:21:20 <johnx> that's ns.google.com
Nov 12 06:21:32 <Livingroom> hm, ok
Nov 12 06:21:34 <johnx> let's see if you can access any external DNS at all
Nov 12 06:21:36 <Livingroom> let me fire up the link. br
Nov 12 06:21:38 <Livingroom> *brb
Nov 12 06:22:24 <Livingroom> the lack of DHCP is more than a little annoying, because i have to manually type 3 stupid lines into the system each time i connect
Nov 12 06:22:41 <Livingroom> ifconfig bnep0 192.168.20.2 up
Nov 12 06:22:41 <Livingroom> route add default gw 192.168.20.1
Nov 12 06:22:57 <johnx> yeah, it's weird that dhcp isn't working
Nov 12 06:23:00 <Livingroom> then i do echo "nameserver 151.164.1.8" > /tmp/resolv.conf.lo
Nov 12 06:24:20 <johnx> is this the 'native' iphone tethering? or some jailbreak thing?
Nov 12 06:24:38 <Livingroom> native
Nov 12 06:24:54 <Livingroom> which is awesome, i'm still on fw 3.0 lawl
Nov 12 06:24:59 <johnx> I'd be interested to see the udhcpc output at some point
Nov 12 06:25:03 <Livingroom> i can show it to you
Nov 12 06:25:09 <Livingroom> thers about 300 lines of "THIS PACKET IS BAD"
Nov 12 06:25:17 <Livingroom> and thats right after it assigns a 169.x.x.x
Nov 12 06:25:27 <Livingroom> ill pipe it to a text file and put it up on nopaste or something in a sec
Nov 12 06:25:46 <johnx> alright, first I'd like to see the result of that nslookup though
Nov 12 06:25:55 <johnx> that'd answer if there's any hope of proceeding
Nov 12 06:26:00 <Livingroom> ok
Nov 12 06:26:08 <Livingroom> established the link, adding the settings now
Nov 12 06:27:06 <Livingroom> trying to anyway. hold up
Nov 12 06:28:35 <wazd> heya all
Nov 12 06:29:02 <RST38h> heya wazd
Nov 12 06:29:07 <Livingroom> sup wazd
Nov 12 06:29:08 <johnx> allo wazd
Nov 12 06:29:14 <Livingroom> hey john, so far all i have is
Nov 12 06:29:19 <Livingroom> Excelsior:~# nslookup google.com 216.239.32.10
Nov 12 06:29:19 <Livingroom> Server:    216.239.32.10
Nov 12 06:29:33 <Livingroom> i'm ssh'ed to the iphone, and from there ssh'ed over BT to the n800
Nov 12 06:29:40 <Livingroom> if you want, ill open up the NAT and you can ssh in
Nov 12 06:29:41 <luke-jr> Google is 2001:4860:b004::68
Nov 12 06:30:10 <Livingroom> it's just sitting here too
Nov 12 06:30:29 <johnx> luke-jr, I think I'm going to replace my nslookup with a script that bothers you on IRC to ask IPs :D
Nov 12 06:30:36 <johnx> Livingroom, alright
Nov 12 06:30:40 <Livingroom> ok
Nov 12 06:30:44 <Livingroom> Address 1: 216.239.32.10
Nov 12 06:30:45 <Livingroom> nslookup: can't resolve 'google.com'
Nov 12 06:30:49 <luke-jr> johnx: don't whine about lag.
Nov 12 06:30:51 <johnx> try replacing the IP for the server with the one of your carrier's DNS
Nov 12 06:31:14 <luke-jr> dig AAAA ipv6.google.com @4.2.2.2
Nov 12 06:31:16 <luke-jr> kthx
Nov 12 06:31:24 <Livingroom> i did it with Server:    151.164.1.8
Nov 12 06:31:24 <Livingroom> which i'm currently pinging in another xterm with a 400~ ms ping
Nov 12 06:31:31 <luke-jr> Livingroom: try mtr
Nov 12 06:31:37 <Livingroom> mtr?
Nov 12 06:31:44 <johnx> luke-jr, maemo4 package?
Nov 12 06:31:47 <luke-jr> yeah, mtr is cool
Nov 12 06:31:50 <luke-jr> johnx: ?
Nov 12 06:31:52 <Livingroom> ~mtr
Nov 12 06:31:53 <infobot> Network diagnostic tool. URL: http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/
Nov 12 06:32:01 <johnx> luke-jr, is there one?
Nov 12 06:32:11 <luke-jr> johnx: no clue. Maemo 4 is obsolete and crappy.
Nov 12 06:32:25 <Livingroom> problem is, luke, i can use IPs ok with browser, apt, etc. but domains refuse to lookup
Nov 12 06:32:32 <Livingroom> here's the deal
Nov 12 06:32:45 <luke-jr> Livingroom: echo nameserver 4.2.2.2 > /etc/resolv.conf
Nov 12 06:33:10 <Livingroom> the n800 is running maemo-pan to my iphone (but dhcp doesnt work so i'm specifying an addr manually) the iphone is on edge and its showing tether and is relaying packets properly
Nov 12 06:33:10 <johnx> luke-jr, you know that's not a helpful thing to do on maemo4...
Nov 12 06:33:23 <luke-jr> johnx: no? I don't use Maemo4 and you know it
Nov 12 06:33:34 <Livingroom> longer pause this time but still
Nov 12 06:33:34 <Livingroom> Address 1: 151.164.1.8
Nov 12 06:33:35 <Livingroom> nslookup: can't resolve 'google.com'
Nov 12 06:33:42 <johnx> luke-jr, so don't give people suggestions that you're not sure won't break their setup
Nov 12 06:33:55 <luke-jr> johnx: if it breaks Maemo, then Maemo is broken
Nov 12 06:34:02 <johnx> luke-jr, maemo is broken
Nov 12 06:34:03 <Livingroom> resolv.conf shows nameserver 127.0.0.1
Nov 12 06:34:19 <luke-jr> Livingroom: can you mtr 4.2.2.2?
Nov 12 06:34:28 <Livingroom> i dont have mtr
Nov 12 06:34:32 <Livingroom> and 4.2.2.2 is not on my local subnet
Nov 12 06:34:42 <luke-jr> of course it isn't
Nov 12 06:35:01 <johnx> Livingroom, just for fun, why not try nslookup again and use your iphone as the DNS?
Nov 12 06:35:12 <luke-jr> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mtr-tiny/
Nov 12 06:35:20 <johnx> luke-jr, we've already established that he can't seem to reach DNS servers that are off his network
Nov 12 06:35:37 <Livingroom> ok so
Nov 12 06:35:42 <Livingroom> using 127.x as the dns lit up my screen
Nov 12 06:35:45 <Livingroom> which was dormant
Nov 12 06:35:47 <Livingroom> but no dice.
Nov 12 06:35:54 <luke-jr> iPhone isn't 127.x
Nov 12 06:36:00 <Livingroom> no, the tablet is though
Nov 12 06:36:06 <Livingroom> oh
Nov 12 06:36:07 <Livingroom> !
Nov 12 06:36:08 <luke-jr> he said try using iphone IP
Nov 12 06:36:09 <luke-jr> :p
Nov 12 06:36:10 <Livingroom> use my IPHONE as the DNS lawl
Nov 12 06:36:11 <Livingroom> brb
Nov 12 06:36:15 <johnx> :)
Nov 12 06:36:22 <Livingroom> holy crap
Nov 12 06:36:23 <Livingroom> fast response
Nov 12 06:36:28 <Livingroom> Excelsior:/etc# nslookup google.com 192.168.20.1
Nov 12 06:36:28 <Livingroom> Server:    192.168.20.1
Nov 12 06:36:28 <Livingroom> Address 1: 192.168.20.1
Nov 12 06:36:28 <Livingroom> nslookup: can't resolve 'google.com'
Nov 12 06:36:33 <Livingroom> instantaneous answer
Nov 12 06:36:34 <Livingroom> no delay
Nov 12 06:36:41 <luke-jr> O.o
Nov 12 06:36:48 <luke-jr> oh, Google is down. that's why
Nov 12 06:36:52 <Livingroom> ...
Nov 12 06:36:53 <Livingroom> lies
Nov 12 06:36:55 <luke-jr> j/k :)
Nov 12 06:37:07 <johnx> well, it probably refused the connection...
Nov 12 06:37:09 <luke-jr> Livingroom: does it work from the iPhone?
Nov 12 06:37:10 <Livingroom> hm
Nov 12 06:37:12 <Livingroom> yes
Nov 12 06:37:13 <Livingroom> it does
Nov 12 06:37:15 <Livingroom> splendidly
Nov 12 06:37:32 <luke-jr> can you SSH to iPhone?
Nov 12 06:37:40 <Livingroom> yes
Nov 12 06:37:40 <johnx> I wonder how dns normally works when tethered to an iphone...
Nov 12 06:37:42 <Livingroom> and vice versa
Nov 12 06:37:57 <Livingroom> in fact my windows pc which i'm on now is SSH'ed to the iphone which in turn i SSH'ed to the n800
Nov 12 06:38:08 <luke-jr> setup a DNS server that calls "ssh iphone dig "$1" +short" for lookups :)O
Nov 12 06:38:22 <Livingroom> the iphone has a version of BIND/DNS on it
Nov 12 06:38:39 <luke-jr> not running?
Nov 12 06:38:40 <Livingroom> let me try to start it
Nov 12 06:38:57 <johnx> yeah, then nmap it to see if it's really working
Nov 12 06:39:04 <luke-jr> perhaps configured to only bind loopback?
Nov 12 06:39:05 <johnx> full bind would be insane though
Nov 12 06:39:10 <johnx> hopefully it's dnsmasq or similar
Nov 12 06:39:13 <luke-jr> yeah, it really would lol
Nov 12 06:39:53 <johnx> luke-jr, would explain why the iphone can't multitask :D
Nov 12 06:40:06 <Livingroom> this bind is 3rd party, installed from apt/cydia
Nov 12 06:40:12 <luke-jr> XD
Nov 12 06:40:59 <johnx> might be interesting to get nmap on the n800 just to help troubleshoot
Nov 12 06:41:22 <johnx> I don't think mtr will be helpful as I have a feeling some firewall along the way isn't letting connections to :53 pass
Nov 12 06:41:34 <luke-jr> it would tell us that :p
Nov 12 06:41:55 <johnx> it can connect on arbitrary ports?
Nov 12 06:42:02 <luke-jr> eh, I would assume so
Nov 12 06:42:09 <luke-jr> tracepath can at least
Nov 12 06:42:11 * johnx finds out
Nov 12 06:42:46 <johnx> if it can, I don't know how you specify that
Nov 12 06:42:46 <Livingroom> hm
Nov 12 06:42:50 <Livingroom> bind was not installed correctly
Nov 12 06:42:52 <johnx> seems to be strictly ICMP
Nov 12 06:42:53 <Livingroom> i'm reinstalling
Nov 12 06:43:00 <Livingroom> ok
Nov 12 06:43:01 <Livingroom> it's installed
Nov 12 06:43:04 <luke-jr> ...
Nov 12 06:44:43 <Livingroom> bind is not running
Nov 12 06:44:44 <Livingroom> odd
Nov 12 06:46:10 <Livingroom> AHA
Nov 12 06:46:13 <Livingroom> BEHOLD:
Nov 12 06:46:21 <Livingroom> there is nothing in netstat -an for LISTEN on port *53
Nov 12 06:46:26 <Livingroom> on the iphone
Nov 12 06:46:32 <Livingroom> therefore, no DNS service is on the iphone.
Nov 12 06:46:44 <johnx> I figured that was why nslookup cam back so quick
Nov 12 06:46:57 <johnx> so then the next question is: how is the windows maching getting dns out?
Nov 12 06:47:03 <johnx> maybe proxying it?
Nov 12 06:47:06 <Livingroom> no
Nov 12 06:47:13 <Livingroom> the windows is just going to 151.164.1.8 like it's supposed to
Nov 12 06:48:17 <johnx> might be interesting to do a quick install of nmap on the n800 from extras
Nov 12 06:48:50 <johnx> then: nmap -P0 151.164.1.8
Nov 12 06:49:51 <Livingroom> ok one sec
Nov 12 06:50:17 <johnx> and you should make a script starting tethering so you don't go insane :)
Nov 12 06:50:40 <Livingroom> i need to edit the one that comes with maemo-pan
Nov 12 06:50:48 <johnx> http://pastebin.ca/1667719
Nov 12 06:50:58 <Livingroom> woah woah woah woah woah
Nov 12 06:51:08 <Livingroom> apt cant resolve now that i switched over to wifi
Nov 12 06:51:15 <johnx> huh
Nov 12 06:51:29 <Livingroom> i cant resolve any hostnames
Nov 12 06:51:30 <johnx> probably trying to query that at&t dns server
Nov 12 06:52:32 <wazd> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34311 oh my...
Nov 12 06:53:18 <Livingroom> i'm a bit put off from the n900
Nov 12 06:53:24 <Livingroom> i liked n800 because it didnt require a carrier
Nov 12 06:53:41 <johnx> the n900 doesn't either
Nov 12 06:53:46 <johnx> runs just fine without a sim
Nov 12 06:53:53 <Livingroom> is it sold without one though?
Nov 12 06:54:16 <johnx> in the UK you can get it on contract, but everywhere else I think it's mostly sold unlocked
Nov 12 06:54:32 <Livingroom> i rebooted the n800 and now it can resolve
Nov 12 06:54:49 <Livingroom> do i need to chmod my shellscript?
Nov 12 06:54:54 <Livingroom> like 777 or something? to execute it?
Nov 12 06:54:57 <johnx> yeah
Nov 12 06:55:00 <johnx> chmod +x myscript.sh
Nov 12 06:55:09 <johnx> and that one needs to be run as root of course ;)
Nov 12 06:55:19 * wazd ponders bout making a video with his thoughts about this. It would be censored immediately though
Nov 12 06:55:49 <Livingroom> humm?
Nov 12 06:55:55 <Livingroom> ok nmap is here
Nov 12 06:56:01 <Livingroom> should i "test" it before i go back on the iphone?
Nov 12 06:56:08 <johnx> might as well
Nov 12 06:56:26 <johnx> try nmap 4.2.2.1 and nmap <that at&t ns>
Nov 12 06:56:28 <Livingroom> running it on wifi
Nov 12 06:56:34 <Livingroom> i did the -P0 too
Nov 12 06:56:43 <Livingroom> it shows ports
Nov 12 06:57:27 <Livingroom> 4.2.2.2 shows no ports. but the ATT one shows 3 porst
Nov 12 06:57:32 <Livingroom> going on iphone tether now
Nov 12 06:57:55 <johnx> eh eh
Nov 12 06:57:56 <johnx> hang on
Nov 12 06:59:00 <johnx> you should definitely see 53/tcp open domain
Nov 12 06:59:02 <johnx> on 4.2.2.1
Nov 12 06:59:14 <johnx> same with 216.239.32.10
Nov 12 06:59:21 <Livingroom> i didnt see 53 on either of the addrs
Nov 12 06:59:54 <johnx> and you did run with -P0?
Nov 12 07:00:00 <johnx> that's a zero not an oh
Nov 12 07:00:01 <Livingroom> yes, capital P
Nov 12 07:00:03 <Livingroom> and zero
Nov 12 07:01:02 <Livingroom> nmap runs on the iphone tether and reports ports 21, 22, and 443 on IP 151.164.1.8
Nov 12 07:01:33 <johnx> which explains why you can't use it to lookup IP addresses :)
Nov 12 07:01:49 <johnx> from there it might be interesting to install nmap on the iphone. I assume cydia has it
Nov 12 07:02:14 <Livingroom> yes. installing now
Nov 12 07:02:47 <johnx> s/lookup IP addresses/lookup DNS names/ <- duuuh
Nov 12 07:03:09 <Livingroom> hm
Nov 12 07:03:14 <Livingroom> iphone has weird error messages
Nov 12 07:03:20 <Livingroom> i'm pasting them one sec
Nov 12 07:03:55 <Livingroom> http://pastebin.ca/1667734
Nov 12 07:04:51 <Macer> Stskeeps: you around?
Nov 12 07:06:13 <Chani> so... has anyone else noticed that the thired row of the symbol table on the n900 doesn't work?
Nov 12 07:06:26 <Chani> i can't type a tilde
Nov 12 07:07:08 <suihkulokki> it is a "dead" char
Nov 12 07:07:15 <luke-jr> Livingroom: uh, you mean N800 doesn't *support* a carrier.
Nov 12 07:07:29 <Chani> or the .. caretz. the one for sowing powrs
Nov 12 07:07:43 <Chani> *caret
Nov 12 07:07:46 <Chani> ?
Nov 12 07:07:58 <suihkulokki> Chani: press the ~ and a to get a ã
Nov 12 07:08:16 <Chani> suihkulokki: you misunderstand
Nov 12 07:08:32 <suihkulokki> if you want just ~ , press tilda and space
Nov 12 07:08:37 <Livingroom> john you still around?
Nov 12 07:08:55 <Chani> the tilde. the characetr you typed aftter "press a". i can.t use it on my n900
Nov 12 07:09:21 <Chani> that t,whole row of the symbol table isn.t respodiing
Nov 12 07:10:11 <johnx> Livingroom, yup
Nov 12 07:10:33 <suihkulokki> Chani: I just used n900 to do those chars using the symbol table
Nov 12 07:10:38 <johnx> Livingroom, not exactly surprising that nmap can't figure out how to get names resolved for it
Nov 12 07:10:42 <Livingroom> why is that?
Nov 12 07:10:49 <Livingroom> remember, that message was on the iphone
Nov 12 07:10:57 <johnx> yes
Nov 12 07:11:05 <suihkulokki> àáâãä¡¿
Nov 12 07:11:06 <johnx> I think nmap tries to resolv names itself instead of using libc
Nov 12 07:11:28 <suihkulokki> `´^~¨
Nov 12 07:11:30 <johnx> but the question is: does it show 53 is open on the at&t nameserver?
Nov 12 07:11:45 <Chani> ~ fffk
Nov 12 07:11:46 <Chani> [C
Nov 12 07:11:46 <Chani> ffkdhfhfdhdhgggf
Nov 12 07:11:46 <Chani> ~.
Nov 12 07:11:46 <Chani> dfvbfjukivb wrlops[Ap,
Nov 12 07:11:47 <infobot> .
Nov 12 07:11:55 <Chani> fjfjfggggg
Nov 12 07:12:02 <Livingroom> no, it does not johnx
Nov 12 07:12:10 <johnx> Chani, first of all: stop that
Nov 12 07:12:28 <johnx> second, open the symbol board, press ~, then press the hardware spacebar
Nov 12 07:12:30 <Livingroom> in fact, it doesnt show it open on 4.2.2.2 or 151.164.1.8 or 216.239.32.10
Nov 12 07:12:58 <Chani> ~.fvdbkliflvbfjuvf
Nov 12 07:13:07 <Chani> sorry
Nov 12 07:13:15 <Chani> wifi keeps cutting out
Nov 12 07:13:37 <johnx> Livingroom, well, I'm totally stumped how it's supposed to be working then. I think I'm not understanding  what's really happening when it's tethered to windows
Nov 12 07:13:42 <Chani> i wasn.t seeing any of that :/
Nov 12 07:13:58 <johnx> Chani, no worries. :) I thought you were trying to be annoying
Nov 12 07:13:58 <Livingroom> iunno
Nov 12 07:14:17 <johnx> also, I really don't get how nmap isn't able to connect to :53, and yet the rest of the iphone can
Nov 12 07:14:22 <Livingroom> let me tether to windows and see what ifconfig says about it
Nov 12 07:14:23 <Livingroom> brb
Nov 12 07:14:26 <Livingroom> also
Nov 12 07:14:30 <Livingroom> i think alot of this had to do wtih dhcp failing
Nov 12 07:14:38 <Livingroom> dhcp is _supposed_ to give it the dns server info
Nov 12 07:16:24 <Chani> ok... so the n900 is doing what *looks* like a tilde (losing points for identical buttons behaving differently). but thatt character is NOT a tilde, which is really not cool. ssh is not recognising it as a control character so it must be something else that just looks exactly like a tilde
Nov 12 07:17:00 <Chani> kinda like microsoft quotes :P
Nov 12 07:17:25 <pupnik> back to day zero. ascii
Nov 12 07:17:44 <Chani> except this actually breaks functions
Nov 12 07:18:12 <Livingroom> microsoft quotes sounds like a failed AI for Win 3.1 that mimicked steven wright.
Nov 12 07:18:12 <suihkulokki> it is a tilde
Nov 12 07:18:37 <Chani> i can't kill ssh. that combined with the wifi freezing up regularly is going to be way too annoying
Nov 12 07:18:57 <johnx> Chani, it's a tilde. cd ~ works on my n900
Nov 12 07:19:01 <Chani> suihkulokki: no; it just looks like one
Nov 12 07:19:09 <Chani> johnx: really:
Nov 12 07:19:11 <Chani> :
Nov 12 07:19:13 <Livingroom> johnx brb
Nov 12 07:19:14 <Chani> :
Nov 12 07:19:20 <Chani> argh.
Nov 12 07:19:21 <johnx> yes really Chani
Nov 12 07:19:23 <johnx> I just did it
Nov 12 07:19:28 <suihkulokki> me too
Nov 12 07:19:39 <Chani> Vme tries again
Nov 12 07:19:48 <Shapeshifter> Chani: your ":" also just looks like a colon?
Nov 12 07:19:53 <Chani> ~.
Nov 12 07:19:53 <Shapeshifter> but is actually a question mark :P
Nov 12 07:19:54 <infobot> .
Nov 12 07:19:59 <Chani> see:
Nov 12 07:20:26 <johnx> Chani, also, if by "wifi freezing" you mean it sometimes takes forever to ssh *into* the n900, then that's kind of unavoidable when it's using such agressive power saving settings
Nov 12 07:20:26 <Chani> enter_tilde_dot doesn't work :/
Nov 12 07:20:45 <johnx> what is that supposed to do?
Nov 12 07:21:07 <Chani> see:
Nov 12 07:21:16 <suihkulokki> johnx: not unavoidable, just need a newer firmware
Nov 12 07:21:30 <Chani> johnx: no; i mean it thinks it is online but cant receie any data
Nov 12 07:21:32 <johnx> oh weird. I didn't know it did that to ssh
Nov 12 07:22:06 <Chani> no thata is the wifi problem
Nov 12 07:22:17 <suihkulokki> someone need to make a "howto to use tilde on n900" youtube video for chani
Nov 12 07:22:18 <johnx> suihkulokki, really? I guess I haven't experienced that problem yet then
Nov 12 07:22:22 <pupnik> i keep a ping running if im on AC power at homed
Nov 12 07:22:33 <Chani> enter tilde dot is the sequence that disconnects ssh no matter how messed up it is
Nov 12 07:22:40 <johnx> Chani, I'll test it here
Nov 12 07:22:50 <blarg> ok
Nov 12 07:22:52 <blarg> i cant
Nov 12 07:22:53 <blarg> what the crap
Nov 12 07:22:59 <pupnik> ...
Nov 12 07:23:00 <suihkulokki> ~.
Nov 12 07:23:02 <infobot> .
Nov 12 07:23:08 <Chani> somehow the  n900 is breakingthst
Nov 12 07:23:08 <Shapeshifter> Chani: yay. didn't know that
Nov 12 07:23:39 <johnx> Chani, it works here
Nov 12 07:23:43 <johnx> is it timing sensitive?
Nov 12 07:23:52 <Livingroom> johnx i have to hit the hay
Nov 12 07:23:57 <Livingroom> and now windows doesnt want to tether
Nov 12 07:24:01 <Livingroom> so something may be screwed up
Nov 12 07:24:04 <pupnik> maybe some languages have probs
Nov 12 07:24:07 <suihkulokki> tilde is still ascii so it isn't utf8 problem?
Nov 12 07:24:14 <pupnik> ok
Nov 12 07:24:26 <johnx> Livingroom, alright. I fixed it to work as well as it does on windows, just like you asked!
Nov 12 07:25:37 <Livingroom> johnx ROFL
Nov 12 07:25:45 <Shapeshifter> Has someone with an n900 tried tethering through bluetooth and can say anything about battery life while using it like that for general web surfing without heavy transfers?
Nov 12 07:25:52 <Chani> argh i.m offline again
Nov 12 07:26:02 <Chani> blah
Nov 12 07:26:03 <Livingroom> OH MY GOD please DONT SAY TETHERING
Nov 12 07:26:19 <Shapeshifter> mh?
Nov 12 07:26:33 <johnx> heh. I never had bad luck tethering my n800 to an se "dumb phone" :)
Nov 12 07:27:14 <Livingroom> i shouldve leveled to 80 tonight instead i did this :(
Nov 12 07:27:19 <Chani> johnx: is not time sensiitive but you have to enter exactly those characters in that sequence. no others. cd ~ does work though
Nov 12 07:27:56 <Chani> because of this i have to close the window on every disconnect
Nov 12 07:28:40 <johnx> well, all I can say is the ssh disconnect trick works just fine here on 41-10 firmware
Nov 12 07:28:43 <Livingroom> johnx windows will connect but not aquire an IP
Nov 12 07:28:49 <Chani> johnx: weiiird
Nov 12 07:29:11 <johnx> Livingroom, woo! un-jailbreak and return to apple :)
Nov 12 07:29:19 <Livingroom> haha yeah no.
Nov 12 07:29:22 <Livingroom> it worked before :P
Nov 12 07:29:29 <Livingroom> gonna try win7 brb
Nov 12 07:30:00 <johnx> if it fails there, might want to remove bind
Nov 12 07:30:02 <Shapeshifter> mhh, tethering via wlan
Nov 12 07:30:22 <Chani> johnx: mine's 42_11
Nov 12 07:30:41 <Livingroom>  i already removed bind
Nov 12 07:30:54 <Livingroom> i also found my old dongle, going to try that with the widcomm stack instead of bluesoleil
Nov 12 07:31:18 <johnx> I always find it remarkable how some companies get this neat little set of things right, and everything else so incredibly wrong :)
Nov 12 07:31:39 <Chani> i really wonder why they put the apostrophe on fn. do maemo developers not use contractions?
Nov 12 07:31:41 <Livingroom> fuck, widcomm stack doesnt work. wow, i'm having ALL the luck tonight
Nov 12 07:31:56 <pupnik> thninking of what johnx ?
Nov 12 07:32:28 <johnx> pupnik, apple doing such a good job on so many things, and botching others so badly on the iphone
Nov 12 07:32:37 <pupnik> oh
Nov 12 07:32:49 <Livingroom> i'm starting to doubt that apple is to blame for this
Nov 12 07:32:51 <Livingroom> because it worked before
Nov 12 07:32:51 <Chani> hmm. the again . and , are the only non-alpha characters to get their own key
Nov 12 07:32:53 <Livingroom> and now it doesnt
Nov 12 07:32:56 <Livingroom> many tinkerings later as root
Nov 12 07:32:58 <pupnik> always hated apple for reducing the bandwidth between usdr and computer
Nov 12 07:33:07 <pupnik> user
Nov 12 07:33:09 <johnx> Livingroom, it's just that every other computer in your house is wrong and your iphone is right? :)
Nov 12 07:33:46 <Shapeshifter> mhh.
Nov 12 07:33:50 <Shapeshifter> joikuspot?
Nov 12 07:34:08 <RST38h> johnx: who cares what apple botches? iphone is shiny!
Nov 12 07:34:26 <johnx> pupnik, reducing? well, that's fair to say in some cases. but it's more like: increasing the bandwidth for 80% of the users, and cutting it off entirely for the other 20%
Nov 12 07:34:39 <pupnik> heh ok
Nov 12 07:35:08 <RST38h> from the revenue viewpoint, that is fine
Nov 12 07:35:16 <johnx> RST38h, it's the same as being an aerospace engineer and watching in interest as the competitor's shiny new airplane does a half-gainer into a lake
Nov 12 07:35:38 <johnx> RST38h, and if you're one of those 80% it's like the greatest thing in the world :)
Nov 12 07:35:43 <RST38h> the shiny new airplane has already been sold, and there is not liability
Nov 12 07:35:46 <pupnik> is gainer a US colloquialism?
Nov 12 07:36:00 <johnx> pupnik, diving terminology :)
Nov 12 07:36:26 <pupnik> i olnly heard it used in the midwest
Nov 12 07:36:45 <RST38h> besides, it is easier to make stupid people part with money
Nov 12 07:37:08 <pupnik> funny word to combine with "airplÃane" - thought i was back in MN
Nov 12 07:37:13 <johnx> pupnik, watch this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjTIVuSEgU , then imagine a 737 doing that :)
Nov 12 07:38:50 <Livingroom> johnx: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
Nov 12 07:39:04 <johnx> Livingroom, no more WMDs in your iphone?
Nov 12 07:39:28 <pupnik> wondows mobile device
Nov 12 07:39:44 <Livingroom> johnx: lol, not quite: nothing can BT-tether currently. apparently, the BT-PAN host service on the iphone is damaged. YAY! i get to upgrade my firmware. EPIC. or i can figure out what badly written 3rd party app is breaking it
Nov 12 07:40:06 <johnx> ahaha. I kinda figured it was something like that
Nov 12 07:40:17 <Livingroom> i must now decide if i should go for the broke and take the ultimate plunge or if i should try to fix whats there. cable-tether isnt working either :(
Nov 12 07:40:33 <Shapeshifter> Livingroom: you have an iphone?
Nov 12 07:40:33 <Livingroom> thats the worst part. it was working like 3 weeks ago
Nov 12 07:40:36 <Livingroom> yes
Nov 12 07:40:49 <Shapeshifter> quite a pain isn't it.
Nov 12 07:40:51 <johnx> "go for broke" = upgrade firmware?
Nov 12 07:40:52 <Shapeshifter> sell it?
Nov 12 07:41:05 <Livingroom> yes, firmware upgrades suck dick.
Nov 12 07:41:12 <Livingroom> you has to reinstall everything, which is alot for me
Nov 12 07:41:43 <johnx> ah, all your jailbreaky stuff
Nov 12 07:41:46 <Livingroom> yes
Nov 12 07:41:49 <Livingroom> all my...installous stuff
Nov 12 07:42:09 <pupnik> how do you think ppl can best watch youtube on N8x0?
Nov 12 07:42:11 <Livingroom> would like to reflash 3.0 but sadly i dont think ill get to
Nov 12 07:42:35 <johnx> pupnik, mytube or canola
Nov 12 07:43:02 <pupnik> mytube cant keep up with new youtube - at default format audio drops out
Nov 12 07:43:10 <johnx> bummer
Nov 12 07:43:35 <johnx> I saw something really cool the other day: a greasemonkey/userscript to make youtube do the html5 <video> thing
Nov 12 07:43:36 <pupnik> addint fmt=6 to the youtube string yields smooth sound but 1/2 sppeed video
Nov 12 07:44:49 <pupnik> maybe there is another &fmt= string that yields playable video on Nokia N8x0 - if someone finds it pls share
Nov 12 07:45:06 <pupnik> not sure how that helps
Nov 12 07:46:27 <johnx> doesn't help yet, just sharing
Nov 12 07:51:20 <Livingroom> johnx, thanks for all your help. going to bed now
Nov 12 07:58:21 <Livingroom> johnx you still around??
Nov 12 07:58:30 <johnx> yup :)
Nov 12 07:58:39 <johnx> you didn't manage to leave for long
Nov 12 07:59:17 <Corsac> haha
Nov 12 07:59:23 <cray> err
Nov 12 07:59:27 <cray> damnit all to hell
Nov 12 07:59:39 <livingroom> ok
Nov 12 07:59:42 <livingroom> johnx you still around?
Nov 12 07:59:48 <johnx> yes
Nov 12 07:59:51 <johnx> still here :)
Nov 12 07:59:54 <livingroom> ok so
Nov 12 08:00:03 <johnx> get a good night's sleep?
Nov 12 08:00:12 <livingroom> i reset the carrier settings, deactivated tethering, rebooted the phone and now windows will pull down an IP
Nov 12 08:00:14 <linfl683> Does someone know a good tutorial, or can tell me how to use gstreamer on my n810. I want to stream video from my cam to a server...
Nov 12 08:00:27 <livingroom> going to try n800 now
Nov 12 08:01:21 <livingroom> HOOOOOOOOLLLIEEEEEEEEE SHITTTT
Nov 12 08:01:27 <livingroom> it F*CKING WORKED
Nov 12 08:01:30 <pupnik> linfl683: there is a howto.  qualÃity is bad
Nov 12 08:01:53 <livingroom> it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked
Nov 12 08:01:58 <linfl683> pupnik:  Where can I find that?
Nov 12 08:02:03 <_|Nix|_> Hey! /window 4
Nov 12 08:02:07 <_|Nix|_> Ooops :)
Nov 12 08:02:10 <johnx> livingroom, congrats :)
Nov 12 08:02:12 <livingroom> i have the google blowjob logo right now on my n800
Nov 12 08:02:16 <livingroom> it DHCPeed
Nov 12 08:02:21 <livingroom> WOOOOHOOOOOO
Nov 12 08:02:31 <livingroom> hold on. i'm going to take a picture of this
Nov 12 08:02:35 <pupnik> think talk.maemo.org.  keywords gstreamer camera
Nov 12 08:02:55 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 12 08:03:01 <pupnik> livingroom, you connected n800 to your wlan?
Nov 12 08:03:13 <pupnik> hello sir jaffa!
Nov 12 08:06:02 <linfl683> pupnik: Can you get an URL for me or something? please
Nov 12 08:07:59 <livingroom> pupnik: no, i connected it to my iphone for tethering
Nov 12 08:08:40 <livingroom> http://img441.imageshack.us/i/picture0007o.jpg/
Nov 12 08:08:43 <livingroom> observe MY GREATNESS
Nov 12 08:08:50 <livingroom> which is thanks in very large part to JohnX
Nov 12 08:08:58 <livingroom> had he not stuck with me, i'dve never figured it out
Nov 12 08:08:59 <pupnik> linfl i dont have a url, but the streaming worked right from command line woth gstreamer
Nov 12 08:09:03 <livingroom> i award you one internet, johnx
Nov 12 08:09:28 <livingroom> ~johnx
Nov 12 08:09:31 <johnx> woo! I couldn't have done it without all the little people...which is to say: leprechauns
Nov 12 08:09:39 <pupnik> linfl683: imagine the worst webcam image you ever saw
Nov 12 08:09:44 <livingroom> ~learn johnx HE IS EPIC AND AWESOME
Nov 12 08:09:46 <infobot> I think you lost me on that one, livingroom
Nov 12 08:09:48 <pupnik> then divide resolution by four
Nov 12 08:09:57 <johnx> infobot, I don't love you anymore
Nov 12 08:10:00 <livingroom> lol
Nov 12 08:10:03 <linfl683> pupnik: Hahah ok
Nov 12 08:10:19 <infobot> You don't love you anymore?
Nov 12 08:10:22 <johnx> uhm, but yeah, it's just my AR troubleshooting
Nov 12 08:10:34 <johnx> infobot, die in a fire
Nov 12 08:10:36 * infobot murders in a fire, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless...
Nov 12 08:10:53 <johnx> O_O; I never thought he'd go through with it
Nov 12 08:10:55 <livingroom> ~topic add johnx
Nov 12 08:11:01 <livingroom> ~topic add IS EPIC
Nov 12 08:11:12 <johnx> alright. little to far :)
Nov 12 08:11:16 <livingroom> lol i'm just excited
Nov 12 08:11:18 <livingroom> didnt mean to spawn
Nov 12 08:11:20 <livingroom> *spawm
Nov 12 08:11:21 <livingroom> *spam
Nov 12 08:11:43 <livingroom> now you are immortalized. anyway, i get to go to bed now
Nov 12 08:11:44 <pupnik> üthat was a fast problem resolution livingroom
Nov 12 08:11:53 <pupnik> good rest
Nov 12 08:11:54 <livingroom> pupnik: i started at 11:001m this morning
Nov 12 08:11:59 <pupnik> oh
Nov 12 08:11:59 <livingroom> bah 11:00am
Nov 12 08:12:04 <johnx> no worries about the spam, but I don't want to be part of the topic O_o
Nov 12 08:12:11 <livingroom> AHA! you're immortal now
Nov 12 08:12:18 <Macer> yawn
Nov 12 08:12:18 <johnx> ~topic Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd
Nov 12 08:12:34 <livingroom> i was only trying to add something where you could go ~johnx and the bot would be like "he's awesome"
Nov 12 08:13:04 <livingroom> did you see the pic? let me post it again http://img441.imageshack.us/i/picture0007o.jpg/
Nov 12 08:13:15 <livingroom> can we put that pic in the topic? it's relevant.
Nov 12 08:13:31 <livingroom> relevant TO AWESOME.
Nov 12 08:13:34 <livingroom> anyway, night
Nov 12 08:13:44 <johnx> 'night livingroom
Nov 12 08:17:02 * RST38h is not sure what that picture is relevant to
Nov 12 08:19:16 <Macer> well
Nov 12 08:19:25 <Macer> doesn't look like my phone can load this damn ajax interface
Nov 12 08:21:00 <johnx> ~topic is Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd
Nov 12 08:21:11 <Macer> er
Nov 12 08:21:22 <johnx> a little help here O_o;
Nov 12 08:26:44 <johnx> ~topic restore 3
Nov 12 08:26:57 <johnx> ya
Nov 12 08:28:10 <hrw> morning
Nov 12 08:30:49 <pupnik>  http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390   Microsoft patents 'sudo'
Nov 12 08:36:17 <RST38h> oh well
Nov 12 08:36:19 <RST38h> morning hrw
Nov 12 09:27:00 <edgar21> trying to setup IRC on the N900, but the account-plugin-idle 0.2 doesn't seem to allow me to join any chats.
Nov 12 09:27:14 <edgar21> what's the status of IRC on the N900?
Nov 12 09:27:44 <johnx> I think most people use xchat or something in a console
Nov 12 09:27:45 <mgedmin> account-plugin-idle is a silly thing with no user interface
Nov 12 09:27:51 <mgedmin> most people use xchat or irssi in a console
Nov 12 09:28:06 <zaheerm> there is no multi-user-chat ui on n900
Nov 12 09:28:13 <zaheerm> so use xchat :)
Nov 12 09:28:58 <edgar21> where would i get it? i couldn't find it in app manager
Nov 12 09:29:15 <zaheerm> it probably is still in extras-devel
Nov 12 09:29:54 <zaheerm> which you should probably not enable unless you are willing to cause your phone issues :)
Nov 12 09:30:42 <adeus> xchat in a console?
Nov 12 09:31:49 <edgar21> hm. no xchat in extras-devel
Nov 12 09:32:04 <cosmo> i have extras-devel installed and no problems
Nov 12 09:32:19 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 12 09:32:20 <cosmo> (and xchat installed)
Nov 12 09:32:27 <johnx> enabling extras-testing or extras-devel to get xchat then disabling it later should be no problem
Nov 12 09:32:29 <timeless_mbp> someone asked me to do something incredibly wrong
Nov 12 09:32:43 <johnx> installing random things from extras-devel without understanding the risks is asking for trouble
Nov 12 09:33:11 <zaheerm> yah if you want to do extras-devel do what johnx suggests
Nov 12 09:33:14 <pupnik> one should be prepared to file bug reports
Nov 12 09:33:26 <edgar21> that's a given
Nov 12 09:34:16 <edgar21> however, is it safe to assume, that if extras-devel is only temporarily enabled to install specific packages, one can undo any potential harm by uninstalling that particular package afterwards?
Nov 12 09:34:28 <andre__> edgar21, xchat is only in *Diablo* (Maemo4) Extras-devel. It basically works. Basically.
Nov 12 09:34:33 <andre__> though I often get reconnects.
Nov 12 09:34:57 <andre__> account-plugin-idle from Fremantle Extras-Testing works too but is simply missing a UI. I can log onto a server, but not join a channel :-P
Nov 12 09:35:13 <edgar21> exactly, that's what i've experienced as well
Nov 12 09:35:14 <pupnik> people can pm you
Nov 12 09:35:41 <pupnik> it is a private messaging client
Nov 12 09:35:47 <pupnik> not an irc client
Nov 12 09:35:47 <johnx> andre__, hmm? are you saying it's not available at all for fremantle?
Nov 12 09:36:13 <pupnik> i could swear i installed xchat at summit
Nov 12 09:36:18 <andre__> johnx, xchat? haven't seen it so far
Nov 12 09:36:24 <andre__> but haven't checked either for the last weeks
Nov 12 09:36:26 <johnx> I have it running
Nov 12 09:36:34 <zaheerm> i have xchat installed
Nov 12 09:36:37 <johnx> there are a couple different versions for fremantle
Nov 12 09:36:43 <andre__> oh?
Nov 12 09:36:45 <andre__> didn't know that
Nov 12 09:36:45 <zaheerm> and i have no diablo repos
Nov 12 09:36:46 <andre__> cool.
Nov 12 09:36:59 <zaheerm> it has a few quirks :)
Nov 12 09:37:03 <johnx> some base one and a qwerty12 enhanced version that was a little crashy last time I played with it :)
Nov 12 09:37:24 <Macer> did eureka get cancelled or something?
Nov 12 09:48:10 <RST38h> andre: Can you contact someone who has management rights to maemo.org infrastructure?
Nov 12 09:48:37 <timeless_mbp> > Despite Nokia's control over Maemo, more developers are contributing open source code to the community than for either Android or Maemo, writes Willis.
Nov 12 09:49:07 <RST38h> Willis has got some problems with his English.
Nov 12 09:49:09 <SpeedEvil> I preferred it when he just did Die Hard [n]
Nov 12 09:49:19 <timeless_mbp> > It was announced on July 24, 2009 that the show [Eureka] had been picked up for a 22 episode fourth season,[1] set to air in mid-2010.[2]
Nov 12 09:49:29 <andre__> RST38h, like?
Nov 12 09:50:00 <RST38h> andre: Like, since Nov 10 I am getting a flood of "Your product has been commented by anonymous" for a bunch of my Maemo5 product pages
Nov 12 09:50:07 <RST38h> andre: Same reported by wazd and VDVsx
Nov 12 09:50:31 <RST38h> andre: Looks like someone is running a bot that systematically goes over Maemo5 products and votes them down or something
Nov 12 09:50:36 <andre__> uhm
Nov 12 09:50:49 <andre__> Apple! Iphone! :-P
Nov 12 09:51:00 <lbt_> nah... too dim
Nov 12 09:51:04 <andre__> hmm, so a look at the logs might be helpful
Nov 12 09:51:10 <lbt_> and it would include an ad
Nov 12 09:51:13 <RST38h> andre: Rather 5cc of Aminazin...
Nov 12 09:51:20 <VDVsx> RST38h, andre__ ,also some people complained about it at -devel
Nov 12 09:51:30 <RST38h> andre: But it may, after all, be a bug in Midgard or something
Nov 12 09:51:35 <andre__> that's probably X-Fade's area who's on holidays. I wonder if Jeremiah or Ferenc could take a look
Nov 12 09:51:46 <RST38h> andre: Could you please locate them and ask?
Nov 12 09:51:50 <andre__> because I don't have access to such stuff (or maybe I have but I'm too stupid)
Nov 12 09:51:54 <andre__> okay, let me try
Nov 12 09:52:19 <johnx> heh. the sure way to tell if a launch is happening is to figure out what percentage of the nokia people handling crucial infrastructure are on vacation :D
Nov 12 09:52:21 <RST38h> andre: With approximate plan of looking at the lock, probably nullifying all votes since Nov 10, and maybe closing the anonymous voting loophole
Nov 12 09:52:35 <andre__> johnx, it's not "nokia people".
Nov 12 09:52:43 <RST38h> andre: It has been a loophole for ages, but since nobody exploited it so far, it was ok
Nov 12 09:52:52 <johnx> s/nokia//
Nov 12 09:52:53 <infobot> johnx meant: heh. the sure way to tell if a launch is happening is to figure out what percentage of the  people handling crucial infrastructure are on vacation :D
Nov 12 09:52:54 <RST38h> s/lock/log
Nov 12 10:01:07 <Jaffa> RST38h: Define "flood". I've had a few (say a dozen or so), but that could just be the rush of new users
Nov 12 10:02:37 <kynky> how does maemo differ to limo ? maemo a better linux experience ?
Nov 12 10:03:10 <RST38h> Jaffa: I am getting one every 30-60 minutes
Nov 12 10:03:25 <RST38h> Jaffa: ON the same 2-3 projects, for 3 days in a row
Nov 12 10:03:41 <johnx> kynky, maemo is on shipping devices, with tons of available apps, gives you an environment similar to debian/ubuntu in many important ways, and gives you root access (if you want it) straight out of the box
Nov 12 10:03:42 <RST38h> Jaffa: And I am not sure what rush of new N900 users could have happened on Nov 10
Nov 12 10:04:28 <RST38h> Jaffa: Look more like a Midgard problem *or* someone going nuts from a dynamic IP
Nov 12 10:04:30 <kynky> johnx i take it that means limo doesnt :)
Nov 12 10:04:43 <johnx> kynky, is limo on shipping devices?
Nov 12 10:05:20 <johnx> well, I guess the older versions are, but there's scant little info or development around them it seems
Nov 12 10:05:26 <Jaffa> RST38h: Well, devices are shipping and Maemo Select is very visible.
Nov 12 10:05:41 <kynky> johnx saw this, Vodafone to announce two LiMo (Linux Mobile) smartphones in the 360 H1 and 360 M1 phones.
Nov 12 10:05:53 <johnx> ah, the H1
Nov 12 10:06:00 <kynky> from http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Nokia-N900-ships/http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Nokia-N900-ships/
Nov 12 10:06:01 <johnx> I think that's a new generation of limo stuff
Nov 12 10:06:39 <RST38h> Jaffa: Not shipping instantly though, are they? =)
Nov 12 10:08:21 <johnx> kynky, from the limofoundation site it looks like the current limo phones are locked down for the most part
Nov 12 10:08:27 <johnx> unless I'm missing something big
Nov 12 10:09:19 <kynky> johnx, not very forthcoming i thought
Nov 12 10:09:34 <kynky> as in them, not you :)
Nov 12 10:09:53 <zaheerm> the H1 has been heavily advertised on TV here
Nov 12 10:10:18 <johnx> once I see root on one of them, I'll totally change my tune
Nov 12 10:11:47 <timeless_mbp> andre__: hey
Nov 12 10:11:50 <zaheerm> johnx, if ever you will see root
Nov 12 10:11:51 <timeless_mbp> don't template me
Nov 12 10:12:05 <johnx> zaheerm, that's my point
Nov 12 10:12:19 <johnx> I said the same thing to myself ~3 years ago when they announced the motorokr e8
Nov 12 10:12:22 <zaheerm> vodafone won't dish it out to you :)
Nov 12 10:12:37 <zaheerm> like nokia are kinda doing
Nov 12 10:12:53 <kynky> so n900 still seems best phone to get :)
Nov 12 10:13:17 <andre__> timeless_mbp, but it was so inviting! ;-)
Nov 12 10:13:23 <johnx> I don't care if vodafone roots it for me, or samsung offers a vanilla firmware, or some hacker gets root and voda/sammy don't try to 'fix' that in the next firmware
Nov 12 10:13:37 <andre__> and it's the same amount of clicks ;-)
Nov 12 10:14:13 <johnx> kynky, if you want a linux phone, yeah I think the n900 is the best thing going right now
Nov 12 10:15:11 <kynky> johnx , yeah
Nov 12 10:15:38 <kynky> just wish the n900 i ordered arrived
Nov 12 10:16:14 <johnx> give it a bit more time ;) I think it'll be worth the wait
Nov 12 10:16:24 <timeless_mbp> to be fair, the other bug was well written/summarized, i should have found it
Nov 12 10:16:32 <ccooke_> Morning, all
Nov 12 10:16:42 <kynky> mornin
Nov 12 10:27:48 <Shapeshifter> dumdidum
Nov 12 10:33:19 * timeless_mbp looks around
Nov 12 10:35:33 <pupnik> are there any interesting video feeds for "Video Center"?
Nov 12 10:39:56 <RST38h> not really
Nov 12 10:39:57 <RST38h> why?
Nov 12 10:41:49 <viq> I found conflicting reports, does N900 have or have not a digital compass ?
Nov 12 10:43:01 <SpeedEvil> No.
Nov 12 10:43:03 <johnx> it does not have one
Nov 12 10:43:03 <SpeedEvil> It does not.
Nov 12 10:43:08 <SpeedEvil> At least normally.
Nov 12 10:43:24 <johnx> if you take a digital compass and tape it to the back of your n900, then it will have one
Nov 12 10:43:31 <SpeedEvil> johnx: You're not thinking.
Nov 12 10:43:39 <johnx> beat you to it :)
Nov 12 10:43:54 <SpeedEvil> johnx: A little compass, with a luminous needle, and a lens in the bottom, that you glue onto the front camera
Nov 12 10:44:03 <mgedmin> oooh
Nov 12 10:44:23 <johnx> sooo, by digital compass, you mean one that's entirely made of fingers, right?
Nov 12 10:45:37 <SpeedEvil> I wish accelerometers were about 3 orders of magnitude better
Nov 12 10:45:50 <wazd> Reheya all.
Nov 12 10:45:53 <SpeedEvil> 4 would be nice.
Nov 12 10:46:15 * johnx sleeps
Nov 12 10:46:31 <pupnik> btw, i got the accupower panther 6 charging the n900 bl-5j battery
Nov 12 10:46:38 <pupnik> cheers johnx
Nov 12 10:47:02 <wazd> Cya johnx
Nov 12 10:47:18 <johnx> 'night wazd, pupnik :)
Nov 12 10:47:24 <RST38h> g'night johnx
Nov 12 10:47:41 <johnx> ...and RST38h
Nov 12 10:49:56 <pupnik> still 0%
Nov 12 10:51:08 <pupnik> 6%
Nov 12 10:51:53 <mgedmin> pupnik, where do you get the numbers?
Nov 12 10:52:06 <pupnik> display readout
Nov 12 10:52:14 <waz1> RST38h: have you received anything from forum.nokia yet?
Nov 12 10:52:28 <waz1> RST38h: and moo btw)
Nov 12 10:52:37 <pupnik> 10%
Nov 12 10:54:17 <RST38h> wazd: Well, I ordered the device, they charged my credit card
Nov 12 10:54:24 <RST38h> wazd: Aside from that, nothing at all
Nov 12 10:54:41 <waz1> RST38h: ah, cool)
Nov 12 10:55:02 <waz1> RST38h: still no e-mail for me)
Nov 12 10:55:27 <RST38h> wazd: why do you need an email? you have registered at forum nokia pro already, right?
Nov 12 10:55:38 <waz1> RST38h: yep
Nov 12 10:55:53 <RST38h> wazd: Log in there and go to eStore
Nov 12 10:55:54 <waz1> RST38h: nothing there
Nov 12 10:55:59 <RST38h> You should see the device there
Nov 12 10:56:08 <waz1> RST38h: nop
Nov 12 10:56:12 <RST38h> hmmmm
Nov 12 10:56:31 <waz1> RST38h: I already considered this)
Nov 12 10:56:45 <mgedmin> hm, I ordered the DDP device, but didn't get an SMS notifying that my card was charged
Nov 12 10:56:50 <RST38h> Weird...Well, it did appear for me after a day or so
Nov 12 10:56:54 <mgedmin> either the SMS got astray, or they didn't charge
Nov 12 10:57:10 <RST38h> mgedmin: my bank account clearly shows two transactions from Nokia London
Nov 12 10:57:25 <RST38h> mgedmin: One for $1, probably a test, another for $369
Nov 12 10:57:27 <mgedmin> BTW the DDP email I got a few weeks ago said they would email me when the device becomes available
Nov 12 10:57:28 <mgedmin> they never did
Nov 12 10:57:35 <RST38h> same here
Nov 12 10:57:47 * mgedmin too lazy to check bank statements online right now
Nov 12 10:57:53 <RST38h> And it looks like you can order MULTIPLE discounted N900s from DDP :)
Nov 12 10:58:05 <mgedmin> with credit cards they usually reserve a certain amount, and then charge it later
Nov 12 10:58:16 <mgedmin> I suspect I'm getting SMS notifications only on the actual charge bit
Nov 12 10:58:26 <mgedmin> I suspect if I checked I'd see the amount being reserved
Nov 12 10:58:35 <kynky> http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/12/viewsonic-vpc08-keeps-windows-xp-clamshell-style-alive/ lol
Nov 12 10:58:39 <mgedmin> multiple? gaaaah!
Nov 12 10:58:47 <mgedmin> I ordered mine and it disappeared from the list
Nov 12 10:58:52 <RST38h> Lemme check
Nov 12 10:59:03 <mgedmin> I didn't think to try setting quantity to 2
Nov 12 10:59:09 <mgedmin> not that I would've
Nov 12 10:59:36 <pupnik> RST38h: i coulÃd have ordered n 810s at 0 euro
Nov 12 10:59:41 <kynky> wish i had ordered more than 1
Nov 12 10:59:47 <waz1> Latest south park episode clearly reflects my thoughts bout nokia, discounts, loaned devices and me
Nov 12 10:59:49 <kynky> but 1 is enough
Nov 12 10:59:50 <RST38h> pupnik: Why haven'tyou? :)
Nov 12 10:59:59 <pupnik> do not exploit a good will gesture
Nov 12 11:00:09 <RST38h> mgedmin: It still offers me more n(00s :)
Nov 12 11:00:14 <RST38h> n900s I mean
Nov 12 11:00:14 <pupnik> i dont hack and trash systems
Nov 12 11:00:24 <RST38h> eh
Nov 12 11:00:31 <RST38h> they would probably find out when shipping anyway
Nov 12 11:00:38 <pupnik> you tell the planet about the bug, but not the store?
Nov 12 11:00:43 <pupnik> yea
Nov 12 11:00:54 <mgedmin> hm
Nov 12 11:01:13 * SpeedEvil checks order status again.
Nov 12 11:01:23 <SpeedEvil> nope
Nov 12 11:01:35 <SpeedEvil> (nokia.co.uk, on the 20th)
Nov 12 11:02:58 <RST38h> Weird
Nov 12 11:03:33 <RST38h> Well, I had FN account for years, but not the Pro one. Does it make a difference?
Nov 12 11:09:47 * Jaffa 's hasn't shown up in his list yet
Nov 12 11:13:56 <mgedmin> 250.00 EUR NOKIA ITALIA
Nov 12 11:14:18 <lbt_> Jaffa: apparently they don't come in pink
Nov 12 11:14:31 <waz2> bbl
Nov 12 11:15:42 <Jaffa> lbt_: tart
Nov 12 11:18:53 <pupnik> 30%
Nov 12 11:21:31 <viq> SpeedEvil, johnx - thank you. It's a bit of a shame it does not have compass, it is useful for the Augmented Reality apps that I would like to have a look at...
Nov 12 11:23:40 <pupnik> yes, extrrnal magnets and gyros for you
Nov 12 11:25:12 <mgedmin> a compass would be fun
Nov 12 11:27:11 <pupnik> yeah the a.r. apps are going to have a lot of bling for kids i think
Nov 12 11:27:23 <pupnik> maybe a new generation of computer games
Nov 12 11:30:05 <woglinde> jo pupnik btw.
Nov 12 11:32:07 <viq> I just like the idea of them, without any practical usage yet. Though I guess say geocaching could get a new level of fun, for example.
Nov 12 11:35:24 <zaheerm> a compass would be useful just so I could check here qibla is wherever i am in the world
Nov 12 11:35:29 <zaheerm> s/here/where/
Nov 12 11:35:30 <infobot> zaheerm meant: a compass would be useful just so I could check where qibla is wherever i am in the world
Nov 12 11:39:24 <kirma> yet to receive device service schematics, but I'd say it's far from impossible that there would be place on the circuit board for a 3D compass chip
Nov 12 11:39:40 <kirma> there's a vacant spot on at least some eseries nokia phones
Nov 12 11:40:30 <kirma> doesn't exactly mean it's typical user-implementable extra feature, but still...
Nov 12 11:42:28 <kirma> I doubt that especially the metallic backplate of the slide mechanism would be... ehm, should I say a "challenge" for compass precision.
Nov 12 11:43:20 <kirma> and there are couple magnetic locking mechanisms on the device, too.
Nov 12 11:43:43 <kirma> if it were a single-block device with no moving parts except the keys it'd be much easier.
Nov 12 11:45:01 <viq> aren't there metallic andoid phones with compass? Or the iThing?
Nov 12 11:46:23 <kirma> I wonder if those devices actually perform sneaky auto-calibration on basis of GPS while on the move
Nov 12 11:46:57 <Mek> won't any phone with multiple radios have all kinds of metallic shielding...
Nov 12 11:47:39 <kirma> well, I believe there are parts with differing amounts of effect to the surrounding magnetic field
Nov 12 11:52:25 <kirma> still, one can't really assume that measurement of earth's magnetic field would be a triviality when the sensor is inside a device that has magnetically active materials...
Nov 12 11:53:16 * viq nods
Nov 12 11:53:47 <viq> Though the AR apps have such drool-worthy possibilities, that I keep wishing ;)
Nov 12 11:54:45 <kirma> I keep wondering about GPS-assisted autocalibration, anyway
Nov 12 11:55:39 <kirma> actually gps+accelerometer
Nov 12 11:57:30 <viq> Yeah, though not quite useful for "I stand right here and would like to know where I am and which way am I looking"
Nov 12 12:02:17 <alterego> 500 GBP
Nov 12 12:02:28 <alterego> I can't believe I spent all that on a phone.
Nov 12 12:02:44 <lardman> better than on a pair of tyres
Nov 12 12:03:05 <kynky> the £250 deal was sweet though for n900
Nov 12 12:03:27 <lardman> kynky: is that in the UK?
Nov 12 12:03:31 <kynky> yep
Nov 12 12:03:35 <alterego> Sweet for those who got it.
Nov 12 12:03:42 <alterego> Crappy karma
Nov 12 12:03:48 <alterego> I guess I have been pretty quiet though
Nov 12 12:04:11 <alterego> I didn't even know the device programme had taken place until yesterday.
Nov 12 12:04:15 <alterego> I was well annoyed.
Nov 12 12:04:22 <alterego> But then I thought, meh, I want it.
Nov 12 12:06:20 <alterego> I can make 100 by selling my N95 8G ^.^
Nov 12 12:06:25 <alterego> I might sell my N96 too ..
Nov 12 12:06:55 <alterego> Yeah, if I sell both of those through fonebank, I get 250 quid,
Nov 12 12:07:10 <kirma> viq: what I meant is that it'd calibrate the compass value correction matrix (or whatever) by figuring out where north should be according to gps+accelerometer over time, and from these multiple samples make the correction data
Nov 12 12:07:58 <lbt_> I've seen some UK deals @ free + 18month £30 contract
Nov 12 12:08:06 <kirma> alterego: credit card has been actually charged or why such an outburst now? ;)
Nov 12 12:08:09 <viq> oh. but you still would need some compass to be present
Nov 12 12:08:18 <lardman> lbt_: yeah
Nov 12 12:09:01 <kirma> viq: of course.
Nov 12 12:09:41 <alterego> I habe a contract already
Nov 12 12:09:50 <alterego> 18 month, expires dec next year
Nov 12 12:11:52 <alterego> Besides, getting a contract, hyou end up paying full price regardless.
Nov 12 12:12:01 <SpeedEvil> kirma: you essentially can't do that
Nov 12 12:12:17 <SpeedEvil> kirma: the accellerometer provides no heading information unless you have it clamped into a car
Nov 12 12:12:17 <lardman> well if you need a �20 data contract, paying an extra �10/month for 18 months makes it reasonably cheap
Nov 12 12:12:46 <SpeedEvil> kirma: And that is because there is a specific relation there between lateral accelleration, and turning
Nov 12 12:13:00 <SpeedEvil> kirma: have the device on a table. Now, spin it about its axis.
Nov 12 12:13:02 <alterego> Yeah, I like my contract
Nov 12 12:13:15 <SpeedEvil> kirma: 'down' always points the same way. The accellerometers have a constant output.
Nov 12 12:13:56 <alterego> Heh
Nov 12 12:13:57 <SpeedEvil> viq: yeah
Nov 12 12:21:23 <kirma> speedevil: I know that part. but you can measure direction of constant movement from GPS, and under good conditions, you can assume that in this situation, acceleration on device generally points the way of gravity... and you can try to guess on which situations the device is actually pointing towards the direction of movement
Nov 12 12:21:47 <kirma> reading of magnetometer should be even on the worst conditions somewhat trustable
Nov 12 12:22:02 <SpeedEvil> kirma: The accellerometers are really quite bad though.
Nov 12 12:22:18 <SpeedEvil> kirma: anything that relies on several integrations is basically going to completely fail.
Nov 12 12:23:56 <kirma> it's really a control system with three instruments with weaknesses and strengths for each of them (weakness of magnetometer is that they don't tend to have good calibration in such an environment)
Nov 12 12:24:13 <SpeedEvil> Three instruments?
Nov 12 12:24:38 <RST38h> Ah, the iPhone developers thread is back!
Nov 12 12:24:43 <kirma> gps receiver, accelerometer and magnetometer (each supplying multiple independent readings of course)
Nov 12 12:25:13 <SpeedEvil> There is no magnetometer.
Nov 12 12:25:40 <kirma> well. I meant that *if* there were a magnetometer, its autocalibration would be interesting...
Nov 12 12:25:41 <RST38h> With a helpful comment from some expert that porting QT to iPhones will encourage cross-platform development between iPhone and Maemo!
Nov 12 12:25:53 <SpeedEvil> And yes, you can use the accellerometer to guess - but this is no better than assuming the device is horizontal when the user is interacting with it.
Nov 12 12:25:55 <kirma> supplanting it with gps+accelerometer alone is certainly going to fail.
Nov 12 12:26:04 <javispedro> RST38h: fun times ahead!
Nov 12 12:26:07 <RST38h> As Slashdot calls it "insightful" (sic)
Nov 12 12:26:09 <kirma> scenery recognition is closest thing to what could replace it
Nov 12 12:26:17 <SpeedEvil> The accellerometers add almost nothing to the magnetometer - other than simply supplying a 'down' reference - which is vital
Nov 12 12:26:31 <kirma> performing hough transforms and magic hashes and stuff on the surroundings on camera...
Nov 12 12:26:36 <SpeedEvil> The amount of data you can extract about the heading from them is almost zero regretfully.
Nov 12 12:26:47 <SpeedEvil> The camera is probably indeed a better source.
Nov 12 12:27:41 <kirma> yeah, actually camera may be pretty interesting source of information for relation of direction of movement and direction of camera
Nov 12 12:27:50 <kirma> difference between those, I mean
Nov 12 12:28:23 <SpeedEvil> Needs a lot of CPU and power though.
Nov 12 12:28:29 <SpeedEvil> Which is annoying.
Nov 12 12:28:31 <kirma> and with more interesting world-description, recognising objects on the view for getting the idea where it's pointing
Nov 12 12:29:04 <kirma> there's no point for running augmented reality when user is not looking at the display, though.
Nov 12 12:29:36 <kirma> the hough transform etc kind of trickery might be interesting to tinker though.
Nov 12 12:29:57 <SpeedEvil> kirma: Sure there is. Audio, vibration cues
Nov 12 12:30:29 <kirma> or feature tracking while pointing a phone in a car to non-driving direction
Nov 12 12:30:34 <SpeedEvil> todo: buy gifts for xxx.
Nov 12 12:31:00 <SpeedEvil> Lookup demographic of xxx from contact details, find likely vendors for gifts, vibrate as you go past
Nov 12 12:31:15 <kirma> speedevil: well, you have to have something to see for the device... which means it's probably going to be on users' hand or view, anyway.
Nov 12 12:32:20 <viq> SpeedEvil: though for that part you don't need direction (compass)
Nov 12 12:32:48 * javispedro understood "OpenSUSE Build Service" as "Open source your butt service"
Nov 12 12:34:36 <Stskeeps> ow
Nov 12 12:34:36 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 12 12:35:04 <Doni^> hello people
Nov 12 12:35:22 <viq> javispedro: there's a saying, "the hungry think of the bread" ;)
Nov 12 12:35:52 <javispedro> heh
Nov 12 12:38:00 <javispedro> oh hi Sts
Nov 12 12:38:26 <javispedro> Stskeeps: btw, wouldn't you know where all those changes to the Maemo clutter-0.8 src come from?
Nov 12 12:38:39 <javispedro> some of them are in quilt form but the rest ....
Nov 12 12:38:59 <Stskeeps> javispedro: checkout the gitorious repo?
Nov 12 12:41:28 <javispedro> Stskeeps: ta! so they all come from Nokia itself.
Nov 12 12:41:59 <woglinde> re
Nov 12 12:42:19 <javispedro> in some aspects the patches do help
Nov 12 12:43:45 <javispedro> Stskeeps: and I found the blue colors bug doesn't come from Nokia, but from upstream clutter itself -- the workaround I uploaded to bmo patches around "another" Nokia bug that causes the faulty clutter code to be used when it shouldn't
Nov 12 12:43:55 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Nov 12 12:46:12 <kynky> why does nearly every review on the n900 have to say this is no iphone killer, saying every thing the n900 can do that the iphone doesnt, isnt important or useful
Nov 12 12:46:58 * Stskeeps just plain loves his n900.
Nov 12 12:46:59 <hrw> kynky: if I will write n900 review then I will not mention iphone even
Nov 12 12:47:43 <kynky> hrw, :)
Nov 12 12:47:57 <zash> why does *every* phone review compare everything to the f'in iphone
Nov 12 12:48:10 <woglinde> hi hrw
Nov 12 12:48:21 <hrw> zash: maybe they think that readers use iphones
Nov 12 12:48:36 <SpeedEvil> n900 has 'no' apps.
Nov 12 12:48:38 <SpeedEvil> ATM
Nov 12 12:48:39 <zash> lots of reviews i've read latley mention the word "iphone" more often than the thing they review
Nov 12 12:48:50 <hrw> my total use of iphone since it was released is still less then 30 minutes
Nov 12 12:48:58 <zash> and what's with the OMG, APPS!!! GOTTA CATCH EM' ALL!
Nov 12 12:49:08 <zash> s/CATCH/BUY/
Nov 12 12:49:08 <infobot> zash meant: and what's with the OMG, APPS!!! GOTTA BUY EM' ALL!
Nov 12 12:49:15 <zash> infobot: AWESOME!
Nov 12 12:49:17 <infobot> rumour has it, awesome is a synonym of cheese.
Nov 12 12:49:21 <zash> hahahah
Nov 12 12:49:22 <kynky> hrw , thats more than me
Nov 12 12:49:27 <SpeedEvil> A lot of apps is a plus for a platform.
Nov 12 12:49:32 <SpeedEvil> Look at the original palm.
Nov 12 12:50:08 <kynky> with a decent browser, you can use plenty of webapps
Nov 12 12:50:45 <zash> with a decent x-terminal and ssh, you can reboot your webserver!
Nov 12 12:50:56 <kynky> zash, ++
Nov 12 12:51:41 <SpeedEvil> The one problem I have with the n900 is that the keyboard is going to make nethack tough.
Nov 12 12:51:52 <zash> and who cares if n900 won't kill the iphone, it's like "will linux kill windows"
Nov 12 12:52:25 <muep_> it's generally better if competing products don't kill each other, or just one of them
Nov 12 12:52:26 <mgedmin> will toyota kill general motors?
Nov 12 12:53:03 <VDVsx> andre__, Is there a way to Cc a bug without making 'noise' ?
Nov 12 12:53:14 <andre__> nope :)
Nov 12 12:53:28 <andre__> that's up to the settings of each person him/herself
Nov 12 12:53:45 <VDVsx> agrrr
Nov 12 12:53:46 <zash> mgedmin: will Volvo kill Ford?
Nov 12 12:53:54 <kynky> iphone never intrested me, so was never an option
Nov 12 12:54:23 <aquatix> better compare the n900 with the motorola droid or something
Nov 12 12:54:28 <mgedmin> iphone legitimized the large touchscreen concept in a phone, which is good
Nov 12 12:54:41 <mgedmin> sort of like java legitimized garbage collection and virtual machines in a mainstream language
Nov 12 12:54:47 <tKMFDM> iphone not only didn't interest me. all apple products are on a 'never going to buy' list because of vendor lock-in
Nov 12 12:55:11 <hrw> kynky: webapps == costs for data transfer
Nov 12 12:55:47 <tKMFDM> n900 is a tablet. if you don't have an unlimited or as good as unlimited dataplan it probably isn't the phone/mid for you
Nov 12 12:56:46 <hrw> tKMFDM: it depends on use
Nov 12 12:57:16 <hrw> tKMFDM: with my current phone (where I do mail, rare web, nearly no im) I use less then 20MB/month
Nov 12 12:57:43 <tKMFDM> exactly my point. if that is the primary way you use your phone I question whether you are going to get 430 euros worth of value out of an n900
Nov 12 12:58:01 <hrw> tKMFDM: 430? I paid 250€
Nov 12 12:58:05 <woglinde> re speedevil
Nov 12 12:58:12 <tKMFDM> I assume you bought it with a contract
Nov 12 12:58:24 <hrw> tKMFDM: n900? no, with discount
Nov 12 12:58:45 <tKMFDM> what discount?
Nov 12 12:59:02 <woglinde> high karma
Nov 12 12:59:05 <kynky> 3 x 15% + £50 cashback
Nov 12 12:59:16 <woglinde> hrw how many apps you uploaded to maemo?
Nov 12 12:59:24 <hrw> woglinde: none
Nov 12 12:59:27 <woglinde> baha
Nov 12 12:59:31 <woglinde> system suckz
Nov 12 12:59:39 <woglinde> *g*
Nov 12 12:59:44 <hrw> woglinde: its by my blog posts and bugs posted
Nov 12 13:00:02 <hrw> tKMFDM: >200 karma one
Nov 12 13:00:06 <woglinde> hrw I uploaded 3 apps and have karma 13 because of some mails
Nov 12 13:00:10 <woglinde> so the system suckz
Nov 12 13:00:31 <hrw> woglinde: many complain
Nov 12 13:00:36 <woglinde> jupp
Nov 12 13:10:04 <lopz> hi :)
Nov 12 13:10:27 <Stskeeps> morning qwerty12
Nov 12 13:10:38 <vesa> location fix member 'time' is not a unix timestamp?
Nov 12 13:10:49 <qwerty12> Hiya, Stskeeps
Nov 12 13:11:20 <woglinde> hi qwerty
Nov 12 13:11:34 <qwerty12> Hullo, woglinde
Nov 12 13:13:37 <javispedro> VDVsx: there's a way to add oneself to a bug's CC list without much noise: vote for it and configure bugzilla to cc you of bugs you've voted on
Nov 12 13:14:01 <RST38h> Bada developer blog site has an icon with two nooses.
Nov 12 13:14:07 <RST38h> What would that mean?
Nov 12 13:14:34 <Stskeeps> you'll want to hang yourself after using their SDK
Nov 12 13:14:37 <Stskeeps> at least they're honest about it.
Nov 12 13:15:54 * mgedmin kinda wishes Bada was hosted under the .ss domain
Nov 12 13:16:59 <javispedro> you'll want to hang yourself and someone else
Nov 12 13:17:35 <RST38h> "Bring a friend"?
Nov 12 13:17:45 <RST38h> mgedmin: Samsung has got its own domain now?
Nov 12 13:17:51 <qwerty12> You'll want to hang the Scratchbox developers and the Bada developers, at the same time
Nov 12 13:18:01 <b-man17> lol
Nov 12 13:18:11 * RST38h won't comment on the imagery at the Symbian site
Nov 12 13:18:20 <Stskeeps> yeah, that one looks like a mental asylum
Nov 12 13:19:09 <RST38h> Mental asylum after a mushroom hunting trip...
Nov 12 13:20:45 <javispedro> you mean "this" http://www.symbian.org/ imagery?
Nov 12 13:21:11 <Stskeeps> mm mushrooms
Nov 12 13:21:47 <javispedro> is that a banana?
Nov 12 13:23:36 <qwerty12> That logo on the "Coolest Apps" section is almost reminiscent of the Microsoft Office 2000 logo
Nov 12 13:24:19 <ccooke_> javispedro: ... that is ... wow. What the hell were they smoking?
Nov 12 13:24:44 <javispedro> bananas, mushrooms, or office logos. decide by yourself :)
Nov 12 13:24:49 <LeoD> haha that's awesome
Nov 12 13:25:35 <qwerty12> Maybe those pencils symbolise what you will be wanting to sodomise yourself with after viewing the site...
Nov 12 13:26:03 <woglinde> hm anyone knows if autobuilders are x86 machine?
Nov 12 13:26:38 <Corsac> there are raids of n900 chained, building all day long
Nov 12 13:26:57 <Corsac> and near the end of the hall there are still some n770, trying to keep up
Nov 12 13:28:20 <crashanddie_> GeneralAntilles, Jaffa, around?
Nov 12 13:31:13 <Jaffa> crashanddie_: yup
Nov 12 13:31:24 <Jaffa> crashanddie_: In the shitty business class lounge at Stockholm Arlanda
Nov 12 13:32:30 <Khertan> Hi !
Nov 12 13:32:37 <woglinde> hi khertan
Nov 12 13:32:54 <zaheerm> Jaffa, at least you got in a lounge :)
Nov 12 13:38:35 * Khertan is loosing his time recreating a hildon.FileChooserDialog showing file extension ...
Nov 12 13:39:34 <GAN900> crashanddie_, ?
Nov 12 13:39:39 <pupnik> any hope to get that upstreamed Khertan ?
Nov 12 13:39:44 <pupnik> ah no, nevermind
Nov 12 13:40:29 <Khertan> pupnik: ? what the FileChooserDialog ?
Nov 12 13:40:32 <pupnik> yeah
Nov 12 13:40:40 <amit_usual> is there a way to test accelerometer on maemo sdk
Nov 12 13:40:46 <Khertan> i was near to be insult when i ask for showing file extension
Nov 12 13:41:06 <Khertan> as everyone think that user is dumb and should not see extension
Nov 12 13:41:38 <Khertan> pupnik: clearly ... it ll be not upstreamed
Nov 12 13:46:45 <pupnik> pupstream it pls :)
Nov 12 13:52:12 <hrw> woglinde: add 'uname -a' to build output, send package for build and then check logs?
Nov 12 14:06:16 <gour> hi, i'm looking for some linux-based smart-phone...openmoko and freerunner does not look as having stable solution (aka: software & hardware). i read some reviews about android platform as well as webos used in palm's pre...however, i have impression that maemo platform (and something like new nokia n900) seems as the most open and stable platform. am i right?
Nov 12 14:07:58 <Corsac> except n900 isn't yet available, yes, you're right
Nov 12 14:08:10 <woglinde> hi fiferboy
Nov 12 14:08:19 <woglinde> Corsac read the annoucment
Nov 12 14:08:32 <cehteh> hi gour :)
Nov 12 14:08:43 <gour> cehteh: ohh, hello
Nov 12 14:09:05 <gour> cannot escape from cehteh :-)
Nov 12 14:09:21 <Corsac> woglinde: define “the announcement”? :)
Nov 12 14:09:21 <cehteh> you stalking me!
Nov 12 14:09:22 <woglinde> gour 98,9% is free in the n900
Nov 12 14:09:38 <woglinde> http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2009/11/houston-we-have-take-off.html
Nov 12 14:09:50 <woglinde> http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/miscellaneous/1303-nokia-starts-shipping-its-first-linux-based-smartphone-nokia-n900-
Nov 12 14:10:12 <Corsac> yes, they are “shipping”
Nov 12 14:10:20 <gour> woglinde: that's free-enough...i prefer some open-source platform, but i do not have time to hack on openmoko & FR either
Nov 12 14:10:44 <Corsac> now, they are not yet “available”, like, there's no shop where I can do something else than a pre-order
Nov 12 14:10:53 <Corsac> which is “available in few days”
Nov 12 14:11:03 <woglinde> corsac bah
Nov 12 14:11:19 <fiferboy> hi woglinde
Nov 12 14:11:29 <cehteh> maemo is prolly the most open platform which is currently used .. counting openmoko as dead :(
Nov 12 14:11:59 <SpeedEvil> It's not dead!
Nov 12 14:12:06 <SpeedEvil> It's pining for the fjoords!
Nov 12 14:12:14 <Corsac> woglinde: well, for me it /does/ make a diffrence, like, having the device in my hand or not
Nov 12 14:12:37 <GeneralAntilles> gour, N900 is exactly what you're looking for.
Nov 12 14:12:47 <GeneralAntilles> Corsac, even if you had a tracking number it still wouldn't be in your hand.
Nov 12 14:13:33 <Corsac> GeneralAntilles: if it was available, I could go to a shop a buy it directly :)
Nov 12 14:13:54 <GeneralAntilles> Corsac, whatever, dude, a few days aren't going to kill you.
Nov 12 14:13:59 <Corsac> GeneralAntilles: sure not
Nov 12 14:14:09 <cehteh> well in a few days to weeks, that will be the case
Nov 12 14:14:10 <Corsac> GeneralAntilles: and tbh I'm not even sure I'll jump on the first (real) offers
Nov 12 14:14:30 <Corsac> GeneralAntilles: I just wanted to precise that he couldn't go *now* and buy one
Nov 12 14:14:31 <cehteh> its shipping already, so first all preordered devices i guess
Nov 12 14:14:49 <SpeedEvil> Corsac: Sure he can.
Nov 12 14:15:03 <SpeedEvil> Corsac: I bet that a large fraction of devs would part with their n900 for $10000
Nov 12 14:15:24 <Corsac> SpeedEvil: good point :)
Nov 12 14:15:33 <cehteh> since shipping was delayed by software and not hardware issues, i guess the have a quite big stock to roll out, but well i dont know
Nov 12 14:16:14 <cehteh> cu
Nov 12 14:16:27 <gour> GeneralAntilles: i've to check what it brings in comparison with e.g. n800
Nov 12 14:16:45 <GeneralAntilles> gour, infinitely better hardware
Nov 12 14:17:11 <derf> Where infinity is roughly 2.
Nov 12 14:17:59 <pupnik> bl-5j charge 0 to 90% in 3 and a half hours - normal?
Nov 12 14:18:14 <pupnik> on this accupower station
Nov 12 14:20:45 <gour> anyone using claws mailer on maemo?
Nov 12 14:21:24 * Stskeeps does on his n810
Nov 12 14:22:29 <gour> how it works?
Nov 12 14:22:33 <Stskeeps> good
Nov 12 14:23:21 <gour> i'm thinking that something like n900, could serve my purpose instead of buying netbook
Nov 12 14:23:43 <hrw> gour: on n900 it will be different then on n810
Nov 12 14:24:06 <gour> hrw: n810 is more tablet than
Nov 12 14:24:10 <gour> smart-phone?
Nov 12 14:24:53 <hrw> gour: and has bigger screen then n900
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 17 04:48:21 2009