**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 17 07:58:56 2009 Nov 17 08:07:57 these netsplits are getting crazy Nov 17 08:08:17 splitnode **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 17 08:25:28 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 17 09:31:49 2009 Nov 17 09:38:10 wazd, ping Nov 17 09:38:53 we shoulÃd try that lightweight caching dns client Nov 17 09:39:13 i am having to hit enter 3-1w times to get a site to load Nov 17 09:39:20 3-12 Nov 17 09:39:32 pupnik_, hmm? on your n900? Nov 17 09:39:37 yup Nov 17 09:39:43 so you want to try something like dnsmasq? Nov 17 09:39:50 mhm Nov 17 09:39:58 you're already using dnsmasq Nov 17 09:40:01 next question Nov 17 09:40:07 k Nov 17 09:40:13 :) Nov 17 09:40:27 moo pupnik, johnx, VDVsx Nov 17 09:40:42 if i oing a site twice, the dns lookup happens once? Nov 17 09:40:45 ping Nov 17 09:40:51 moo Nov 17 09:40:57 pingmoo Nov 17 09:41:06 morning RST38h :) Nov 17 09:41:10 alias moo=ping Nov 17 09:41:23 johnx: ? Nov 17 09:41:45 pupnik_, dunno Nov 17 09:41:55 might want to look at how dnsmasq is configured Nov 17 09:42:03 but I assumed it has at least a small dns cache Nov 17 09:42:09 no reason to use it otherwise Nov 17 09:42:11 that is the behavior i want -- cached, selectable expiration delay Nov 17 09:42:18 ok Nov 17 09:42:39 will putter Nov 17 09:42:53 yeah, dnsmasq is upstream. worth looking at there site for config options Nov 17 09:44:07 VDVsx: pong Nov 17 09:45:47 wazd, do you still have plans to attend the barcelona long week ? Nov 17 09:45:55 you're not registered :p Nov 17 09:53:44 VDVsx: nope, no documents :) Nov 17 09:54:06 wazd, oh :( Nov 17 09:55:45 What does the n900 need hal for? Nov 17 09:56:22 for the red light Nov 17 09:56:49 how cool is this, dnsmasq on N900? very cool. Nov 17 10:00:36 ahh the cache honours time to live information. might explain why google.com gives new ip each (or most) ping Nov 17 10:00:47 ip addr Nov 17 10:12:36 jeremiah: sorry, didn't have time last night to upload the pocketsphinx stuff, will try to do it at lunch time Nov 17 10:14:20 * lardman wonders why people still cling to the complicated "press home button, tweak your ear" instructions for flashing <=N810 devices..... Nov 17 10:15:58 RST38h: for the red light? Nov 17 10:16:27 uhm, reference to hal/dave? Nov 17 10:16:55 I mean, hal is mostly needed for hotplugging hardware, but the n900 does that just about never. Nov 17 10:17:09 specially as it doesn't do usb host mode. Nov 17 10:17:58 bluetooth I spose Nov 17 10:56:27 anyone know how to get kinetic scolling/finger scrolling to work with Qt on Maemo 5, qt 4.3. I found this http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt/Finger_Scrolling but it doesn't appear to do a anything. I tried setting these properties both on the app/widget/window but nothing really changes. Nov 17 11:01:19 ensi: Qt packages in SDK are old and there is no Kinetic scroll there Nov 17 11:02:37 is this in qt 4.6 ? Nov 17 11:02:44 ensi: no Qt 4.5 Nov 17 11:02:54 ensi: Qt 4.6 doesn't have kinetic scrolling yet Nov 17 11:03:14 ensi: you can get latest Qt 4.5 pkgs from here: deb http://pug.altervista.org/maemo fremantle extras Nov 17 11:04:24 ensi: more info at http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt/Packages Nov 17 11:04:34 morning Nov 17 11:04:39 hi hrw Nov 17 11:04:47 4.6 appears to have kinetic scrolling Nov 17 11:05:53 RST38h: You've referred to the "anonymous voting hole" on maemo.org/downloads/. Do you know what mechanism is used for anonymous voting? Nov 17 11:06:35 heh... still n900 is not shipped Nov 17 11:06:53 anyone know how to build maemo 5 sdk from source? Nov 17 11:08:50 shuduo: eh? Nov 17 11:09:06 1. get gcc. to download sources to apt Nov 17 11:09:09 3. build apt Nov 17 11:09:12 timeless_mbp, i mean, is there a guide to direct me how to build it from source Nov 17 11:09:14 4. waste days Nov 17 11:09:17 does there is a way to know what is the guys which always vote thumb down on maemo.org/news ? Nov 17 11:09:20 4 takes quite a while Nov 17 11:09:40 Khertan: aww, respect their right to privacy! Nov 17 11:09:48 antiprivacy dudes suck :) Nov 17 11:09:49 for those who are compiling stuff for N8x0 initfs: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3373#c20 Nov 17 11:09:51 Bug 3373: please provide Diablo uclibc/eabi toolchain for building stuff for initfs Nov 17 11:10:00 hum ... but stupid voting sucks too Nov 17 11:10:57 lemmings are people too! Nov 17 11:11:01 or are they lemmings? Nov 17 11:11:31 hum ... i think it was something public in the profile on maemo.org ... but no Nov 17 11:11:38 people who take off their heads and explode like a bomb are no people Nov 17 11:12:12 Khertan: iirc it was public Nov 17 11:12:27 "was" ... ok Nov 17 11:12:31 glass_: aww, how dare you depersonalize people from the middle east Nov 17 11:12:47 that's the same offense most people accuse them of doing to the rest of us Nov 17 11:13:45 well lemmings wear robes too Nov 17 11:14:07 i think it's an illuminati conspiracy Nov 17 11:14:30 someone know what is this red message at startup : 'Restoring last software update : 80%' Nov 17 11:14:46 i got it this morning while rebooting Nov 17 11:14:55 Khertan: you want to use enus1 Nov 17 11:14:58 the string is better there Nov 17 11:15:05 enus1 ? Nov 17 11:20:20 can one use xmodmap on maemo? Nov 17 11:20:51 I'll probably receive an n900 with a swiss/german keyboard which omits the up and down keys for é/ä keys Nov 17 11:21:06 and I want to remap them to act as arrows like on the US version. Nov 17 11:22:23 Shapeshifter: there are definitely ways to do things Nov 17 11:22:35 but my impression is that xmodmap doesn't normally work as people expect Nov 17 11:23:10 timeless_mbp: uhm, well, it does what I expect on normal machines, is it any different on maemo5? Nov 17 11:23:47 but, let's rephrase the question, can I globally map those umlaut buttons to arrows for all apps on the n900? Nov 17 11:24:17 There's a setting for the hardware keyboard layout directly in the GUI. Nov 17 11:24:38 Shapeshifter: you can pick any of the shipping hardware layouts Nov 17 11:24:49 in case the English layout is more to your liking Nov 17 11:24:56 Ah, I see. Nov 17 11:24:57 what, no xmodmap for fremantle yet? Nov 17 11:25:00 * timeless_mbp isn't sure how many differences the German layout has Nov 17 11:25:15 mmm, I guess you can make your own custom Xkb. Nov 17 11:26:12 question is: will user be able to select own keymap in preferences Nov 17 11:26:26 under Maemo4 it is not possible without 3rdparty modules Nov 17 11:26:28 I did. however, on my n810 it was "weird". Something made me think they had done weird things in the code for the norwegian layout in difference to the german. Nov 17 11:26:36 hrw: it's no different from maemo4 Nov 17 11:26:45 timeless_mbp: fucking idiots Nov 17 11:26:45 but again, you're talking about a thing which has a gui chooser Nov 17 11:26:51 which maps to ~10 files Nov 17 11:27:05 you're root, and you're free to canibalize however many of those files as you wish Nov 17 11:27:07 you can just pick one of those and change it. Nov 17 11:27:12 timeless_mbp: maemo4 has all keymaps in one file Nov 17 11:27:18 one file, 10 files, whatever Nov 17 11:27:21 you're still root Nov 17 11:27:26 where's the file? :) Nov 17 11:27:46 timeless_mbp: find /usr/share -name rx*44 Nov 17 11:28:25 /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 Nov 17 11:28:33 ok, so you just rewrite that file... i don't see a problem Nov 17 11:28:38 again, you're still root Nov 17 11:28:48 and the file is presumably well documented with compilers and decompilers Nov 17 11:28:52 timeless_mbp: problem is - your changes will get lost on package updates Nov 17 11:29:00 so you write a package Nov 17 11:29:16 you're talking to someone who is maintaining a package that is self healing and replaces roughly 60 packages and 6000 strings Nov 17 11:29:17 timeless_mbp: with lot of conflicts with original system ones? Nov 17 11:29:24 doesn't hurt my package. Nov 17 11:29:37 install enus1 and play with it Nov 17 11:29:48 oh, if you don't have fremantle, just dissect it Nov 17 11:29:59 since the diablo one relied on a different approach Nov 17 11:30:30 url? Nov 17 11:31:07 hrw, dpkg-divert! Nov 17 11:31:14 dpkg-divert = hell Nov 17 11:31:19 maybe Nov 17 11:31:27 * timeless_mbp is quite happy not using it Nov 17 11:31:35 I've been shipping my own custom X keymap on desktops for a couple of years with dpkg-divert Nov 17 11:31:42 then Xorg reorganized the xkb directory layout and it broke Nov 17 11:31:47 * timeless_mbp rotfl Nov 17 11:31:57 and I decided not to be contrarian and learn the upstream layout Nov 17 11:32:00 3 cheers for linux stabilitiy Nov 17 11:32:03 s/tiy/ty/ Nov 17 11:32:05 timeless_mbp meant: 3 cheers for linux stability Nov 17 11:32:26 cheer! cheer! wait, I've got to fix 10 things broken by an upgrade ... okay now, cheer! Nov 17 11:34:17 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2899 was maemo4 - I hope that for maemo5 I will not have to reopen it Nov 17 11:34:21 Bug 2899: List of hardware keyboard layouts is not expandable Nov 17 11:41:38 Odd. Nov 17 11:41:55 * ccooke seems to be having some little problems since updating to the release firmware Nov 17 11:42:17 things like the screen backlight turning on, but nothing appearing for anything up to a minute Nov 17 11:42:17 flashed mmc too? Nov 17 11:42:20 yes Nov 17 11:43:21 I just had a phone call - it was about 10 seconds before I could actually answer it, because the phone was ringing but the screen was still in backlight-on-no-ui mode Nov 17 11:44:04 had browser open? Nov 17 11:44:09 nope Nov 17 11:44:14 I had one IM window Nov 17 11:44:43 I ended up rebooting the phone this morning, because it took more than a minute to turn on the UI Nov 17 11:45:23 phone out of ram? Nov 17 11:45:25 (same problem: Backlight, no ui visible. Except that time it never came up Nov 17 11:45:34 oh, my 2630 has the same bug :D Nov 17 11:45:55 It rings but shows stand by screen :) Nov 17 11:45:55 ... yikes! Nov 17 11:46:01 350M of swap in use?! Nov 17 11:46:07 I've had similar symptos (bug 5712) but I was doing something specific to trigger it Nov 17 11:46:08 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5712 N900 goes into swap hell with frozen UI, despite free RAM Nov 17 11:46:09 this thing's only running a terminal! Nov 17 11:46:34 interesting Nov 17 11:46:41 normally it uses about 100--150 megs of swap Nov 17 11:47:00 I know Nov 17 11:47:04 I've seen it use 250 megs of swap while the UI remained perfectly smooth and responsive Nov 17 11:47:05 I was impressed Nov 17 11:47:14 and you'd expect less than 100 on a just-rebooted phone Nov 17 11:47:40 ... and there doesn't seem to be anything using up that much memory Nov 17 11:48:03 Hmm. I put the problem down to the mail app this morning, but IIRC I didn't stop it updating mail until *after* the reboot Nov 17 11:48:08 I wonder if there's a leak Nov 17 11:48:26 * ccooke reboots again, now that he can be sure it won't auto-refresh as soon as the device is back up Nov 17 11:48:50 Ow: Nov 17 11:48:55 * mgedmin recommends vmstat as a tool to see what's happening Nov 17 11:49:20 btw just after boot my n900 starts running the thumbnailer for a while with cpu at 100% Nov 17 11:49:25 that goes away after a few minutes Nov 17 11:49:38 presumably when it notices all those gigabytes of media files have already been thumbnailed Nov 17 11:49:47 Mem: total 245548, used: 236768, free: 8780, shared: 0, buffers: 4768 Nov 17 11:50:02 swap in use: 355448 Nov 17 11:50:42 * mgedmin plans to reflash the new firmware soon Nov 17 11:50:55 but backups etc. a hassle Nov 17 11:51:02 I have a strong feeling this is the email client Nov 17 11:51:12 Everything was fine until I set that up Nov 17 11:51:17 Soon know... Nov 17 11:51:39 how many thousand emails in your inbox? Nov 17 11:51:58 11 Nov 17 11:52:04 oh, no. 13.5 Nov 17 11:52:53 (but while the email app was horribly slow using the prerelease OS, it still *worked*) Nov 17 11:52:59 heh Nov 17 11:53:10 Fresh reboot: 178M of memory in use, no swap Nov 17 11:53:17 Nothing shared, though Nov 17 11:53:27 wow, 13.5k emails in an inbox? Nov 17 11:53:47 * aquatix files those in imap folders Nov 17 11:53:47 Wow, 178mb on fresh start?! Nov 17 11:53:48 I'm trying to recall if there was shared memory in use before - I'm sure I'd have noticed if not Nov 17 11:54:03 aquatix: so do I... Every year :-) Nov 17 11:54:11 ghehe Nov 17 11:54:27 i prefer doing it automatically and when i'm done with a certain task Nov 17 11:54:43 * frals suggests doing that monthly instead ;) Nov 17 11:55:09 some threads span months Nov 17 11:55:10 frals: that would mean tracking stuff was much harder. Nov 17 11:55:22 wazd: N900 comes with 256MB RAM + 512MB ROM Nov 17 11:55:28 mgedmin: those tend to live in folders then here :) Nov 17 11:55:29 No, I suggest using a mail client that actually works ;-) Nov 17 11:55:40 but everyone his own system of course Nov 17 11:55:45 ccooke: ghehe Nov 17 11:55:49 claws-mail \o/ Nov 17 11:55:49 RST38h, is that a quote from some clueless article? Nov 17 11:55:51 Good point.. :P Nov 17 11:56:05 RST38h: well, XP had smaller memory footprint on load :) Nov 17 11:56:07 mgedmin: No, it is the memory chip specs Nov 17 11:56:24 wazd: Well, it's Linux, open source! Nov 17 11:56:33 256 MB RAM + 256 MB NAND flash, yes Nov 17 11:56:42 where is the 512 MB ROM hidden? Nov 17 11:56:42 mgedmin: Ok, I stand corrected then Nov 17 11:56:53 mgedmin: I mean NAND flash by ROM Nov 17 11:57:06 what kernel N900 runs nowadays, .31? wasn't that supposed to handle swapping better? Nov 17 11:57:10 if it was 512mb nand, we wouldn't worry about opt Nov 17 11:57:11 :P Nov 17 11:57:15 RST38h: ah, I forgot :D Nov 17 11:57:31 * mgedmin just read an entertaining article exploring the differences of ROM and flash memory, among other things: http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/17_Mistakes_Microsoft_Made_in_the_Xbox_Security_System Nov 17 11:57:48 aquatix: claws mail is better? Nov 17 11:58:00 kirma: isnt it .28 still? Nov 17 11:58:09 * ccooke might try it Nov 17 11:58:19 I don't know, thus asking :) Nov 17 11:58:25 mgedmin: I was watching the talk they gave at the 22C3 conference. That was fun :) Nov 17 11:58:43 .31 would be nice, network namespaces \o/ Nov 17 11:59:26 ccooke: at least i love it on my n810 Nov 17 11:59:43 i don't have an n900 Nov 17 12:00:14 gnuton: you know about this Qt 4.6.0 package? It looks like it is broken. QMap and QList are giving me linker errors. Nov 17 12:01:09 aquatix: I'm not sure it's available yet Nov 17 12:01:15 I was planning to port mutt, myself :-) Nov 17 12:01:28 and integrate it, if I can Nov 17 12:01:33 heh :) Nov 17 12:01:59 well, claws-mail is called a GUI mutt now and then; not really the same thing of course, but i really like the client Nov 17 12:02:09 use it on my big machines as well Nov 17 12:02:16 *nod* Nov 17 12:02:23 ensi: there is something broken in your installation. anyhow feel free to join #qt-maemo Nov 17 12:02:24 I don't use GUI clients when I can help it Nov 17 12:02:29 fair enough Nov 17 12:02:48 but they did an interesting job for the n8x0 Nov 17 12:03:48 God I hate public transportation in stockholm at times Nov 17 12:04:00 mgedmin: It *is* FlashROM after all =) Nov 17 12:04:44 gnuton: i think its the package that is broken. Nov 17 12:04:50 is mutt directly on the nxx0 better than mutt over ssh? Nov 17 12:05:07 mutt's imap facilities seemed a tad slow to me when I tried it on my laptop Nov 17 12:05:11 ensi: Maybe I didn't tried those packages yet Nov 17 12:05:16 frals: God is a jerk that breaks t.m.o. forums, what do you want :D Nov 17 12:05:24 I used ssh mymailserver + mutt on my n8x0 Nov 17 12:05:37 wazd: haha :D Nov 17 12:05:45 modest on the n900 is actually more convenient than ssh + mutt for me, for the first time Nov 17 12:05:51 kudos to modest devs! Nov 17 12:18:07 ccooke: aquatix: 13.5k emails in inbox are easy to achieve thanks to all those spamers Nov 17 12:18:22 but most of them should be hidden and marked as spam Nov 17 12:18:50 mail is dead. Nov 17 12:23:37 tbf: myeah, my spam is filtered away to a spam folder on my server Nov 17 12:24:28 mgedmin: 'he complete Xbox source code has leaked, including the kernel and libraries source.' diddn't know that -f un Nov 17 12:24:42 wow Nov 17 12:24:46 SpeedEvil: link? Nov 17 12:25:21 mgedmin's link of a few mins ago Nov 17 12:25:41 this is however the classic xbox Nov 17 12:25:42 ah right Nov 17 12:25:48 still, interesting :P Nov 17 12:25:56 oh, that article Nov 17 12:25:57 nobody cares about 16-bit DOS :-) Nov 17 12:26:03 * aquatix knew that one already :) Nov 17 12:26:05 oops, wrong channel Nov 17 12:26:06 good stuff though Nov 17 12:26:13 mgedmin: true though ;) Nov 17 12:26:18 Wrong channel? Nov 17 12:26:29 Oh - you mean you're not coding a n900 xbox emulator? :( Nov 17 12:27:06 has anyone used gnokii on the N900? Nov 17 12:27:33 or any other sync for contact info to alinux desktop? Nov 17 12:27:38 Wee! I've found a charger for my Jabra BT500! Nov 17 12:28:09 Sexiest handsfree ever :) Nov 17 12:29:09 jabra is nice; i'm happy with my BT5010 Nov 17 12:30:05 * SpeedEvil remembers the bluetooth 'device' - that may be sexier. Nov 17 12:30:19 http://thetoy.co.uk/ - not worksafe. Nov 17 12:31:55 SpeedEvil: then why do you post it now :( Nov 17 12:32:01 * aquatix is tempted Nov 17 12:37:58 SpeedEvil: ;DDD Nov 17 12:40:18 hey, i've had that cellphone Nov 17 12:46:22 hrw: odd, 2899 is "fixed" but w/o an internal bug reference or a changeset/debian package id Nov 17 12:47:02 oh hrm Nov 17 12:47:05 interesting Nov 17 12:47:12 ok, let's install ukeyboard and see what happens Nov 17 12:47:46 timeless_mbp: it is "LETSGETRIDOFTHEBUG" resolution not "FIXED" Nov 17 12:47:48 I could not figure out ukeyboard... Nov 17 12:47:56 Like how to change the layouts. Nov 17 12:48:38 Lynoure: it is in docs and on ukeyboard website Nov 17 12:50:51 hrw: even after browsing http://repo.or.cz/w/ukeyboard.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/doc/howto Nov 17 12:52:09 Lynoure: to select other layout: simple run control panel and select layout to have other. to change layout (or add new) you need to learn XKB Nov 17 12:53:23 hrw: Already learned xkb some years back. :) Nov 17 12:53:57 so change /usr/share/xkb/ukeyboard file or sth like that Nov 17 12:54:51 hrw: I'm hoping to change the symbols on-screen kb only... Nov 17 12:55:07 Lynoure: onscreen keyboard is other package Nov 17 12:56:11 hrw: Do you happen to remember the name? Nov 17 12:59:39 normally I would say 'matchbox-keyboard' but on hildon it has other name iirc Nov 17 13:09:18 odd Nov 17 13:09:27 * CoreFusion- is back Nov 17 13:09:30 my control panel now says Text Input (ukeyboard) Nov 17 13:09:40 is neils X-Fade here? Nov 17 13:09:53 supposedly he went on vacation Nov 17 13:09:58 which is a crime against the community Nov 17 13:10:50 after being without one for quite a while, i don't blame him :P Nov 17 13:11:46 ok Nov 17 13:11:52 so, ukeyboard seems to "work" Nov 17 13:12:02 in that it does *something* to my control panel app Nov 17 13:12:24 i'm not sure what yet Nov 17 13:14:09 feri, at least here you send emails from the future (one hour ahead) :-) Nov 17 13:14:30 wish I could tell which apps were going to install to /opt and which didn't Nov 17 13:14:53 andre__: really? hmm. have to check it, my clock show the right value though. sorry about it. Nov 17 13:15:02 s/show/shows Nov 17 13:15:12 AndrewFBlack: easy enough to do... Nov 17 13:15:23 apt-get install --download-only Nov 17 13:15:49 feri, "Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:45:28 +0100" in the message source here Nov 17 13:15:51 dpkg-dev ... Nov 17 13:16:21 timeless_mbp, k Nov 17 13:21:53 andre__: yeah, i need to adjust my clock and come back from the future, thanks for noticing it ;) Nov 17 13:27:53 so does flashing the eMMC wipe the whole thing this time round? Nov 17 13:28:58 lardman|home: yes Nov 17 13:29:28 thank you for asking and answering the question of great interest to me Nov 17 13:29:57 writing data to eMMC is very very slow Nov 17 13:30:11 mgedmin: took about 2-3 minutes Nov 17 13:30:18 although maybe that's because I did it over sshfs over wifi... Nov 17 13:30:29 I'm just thinking: I transferred 8 gigs of multimedia into my mmc Nov 17 13:30:37 I'm not too keen on repeating that Nov 17 13:30:43 ccooke: thanks Nov 17 13:30:46 so I think I'll pass on the eMMC flash Nov 17 13:30:57 it doesn't seem to contain anything interesting anyway Nov 17 13:31:00 also means you lose ~/MyDocs Nov 17 13:31:03 if you flash Nov 17 13:31:07 I think.... Nov 17 13:31:14 or is that the other mount? Nov 17 13:31:18 do you lose /home too? Nov 17 13:31:30 there are three partitions on eMMC: /home, /home/MyDocs, swap Nov 17 13:31:37 ah Nov 17 13:31:37 you lose all of them Nov 17 13:31:43 ext3, vfat, swap Nov 17 13:31:51 ok Nov 17 13:32:02 the eMMC image is interesting Nov 17 13:32:09 if you flasher-3.5 -u it, you get a raw VFAT image Nov 17 13:32:20 that weighs ~250 megs, but if you mount -o loop, you see it as a 4 gb filesystem Nov 17 13:32:35 the partition itself is 27 gb Nov 17 13:32:48 so... Nov 17 13:32:49 I'm not sure how this all works -- 250 meg image? 4gb loop? 27gb partition? Nov 17 13:32:50 re ukeyboard Nov 17 13:32:57 is the flasher resizing the fs? Nov 17 13:32:59 i still don't quite understand what it does Nov 17 13:33:08 mgedmin: the image contains a lot of empty space. Nov 17 13:33:14 but i think it's safe to say that "no, this was not at all fixed by Nokia, and is still totally broken" Nov 17 13:33:24 * lardman|home crosses fingers and hopes he's backed everything up Nov 17 13:33:25 timeless_mbp: what's broken? Nov 17 13:34:15 ccooke: the fact that ukeyboard has to actually replace the text input control panel Nov 17 13:34:18 ccooke, but it's not a sparse file, ls -l shows the size of the image being 246950912 bytes Nov 17 13:34:25 means that maemo doesn't actually support what it wants to do Nov 17 13:35:11 i'm actually fairly impressed by what it manages to do Nov 17 13:35:16 it's pretty cool Nov 17 13:35:21 not perfect, but pretty cool Nov 17 13:35:33 * mgedmin still hasn't figured out how to use ukeyboard Nov 17 13:35:38 mgedmin: filesystem header says it's a 4g fs, there's only data for the first 250M, it gets dumped onto part of a 27Gb FS? Nov 17 13:35:42 would be nice if it shipped with a sample layout, and loaded that one by default on startup Nov 17 13:35:46 mgedmin: open the control panel Nov 17 13:35:51 open text input Nov 17 13:36:00 mgedmin: by default it uses maemo ones + own ones Nov 17 13:36:01 the title will say {localized "Text Input"} (ukeyboard) Nov 17 13:36:13 timeless_mbp, sorry, I meant the ukeyboard creator, not ukeyboard itself Nov 17 13:36:17 the menus inside the control panel have extra content Nov 17 13:36:22 oh Nov 17 13:37:13 mgedmin: presumably you can apt-get source the ukeyboard package for the sources to their layouts, no? :) Nov 17 13:37:48 yeah Nov 17 13:37:49 so the legacy update is to be flashed instead of the one we can download? Nov 17 13:39:29 It has a built in FM transmitter? Nov 17 13:39:37 The N900? What about reciever? Nov 17 13:39:41 yes to both Nov 17 13:39:45 Nice Nov 17 13:40:46 Shame it doesn't have HDMI out:) Nov 17 13:40:50 lardman|home you have an "older" device? Nov 17 13:41:01 tekojo: yes Nov 17 13:41:17 then you go legacy Nov 17 13:41:33 tekojo: from what I read, I was thinking just the x-loader needed to be flashed, but yeah, I've just flashed the whole thing Nov 17 13:41:53 * lardman|home didn't have much time to read the mails this week Nov 17 13:42:16 Are there hardware differences between the regional models? (not including the keypad) Nov 17 13:43:03 alterego: no, regional stuff is done in sw Nov 17 13:43:07 afaiu Nov 17 13:43:29 Ah, cool. Nov 17 13:43:33 alterego no, the keyboard should be it Nov 17 13:43:52 So, in theory I could by a US model and use it in the UK Nov 17 13:43:57 I just need to reflash it? Nov 17 13:44:02 ~buy Nov 17 13:44:34 might be some regulatory stuff Nov 17 13:44:48 Stskeeps: I thought that was done in the sw/firmware Nov 17 13:44:54 That's what I was thinking, Nov 17 13:45:02 lardman|home: if flasher updates the CAL area for it, maybe.. Nov 17 13:45:05 * Stskeeps doesn't actually know Nov 17 13:45:39 Would the CAL area be where provider locks are stored? Because I doubt it in that case ;) Nov 17 13:45:42 yeah, good point Nov 17 13:47:30 * lardman|home wonders if there are really any problems with restoring settings..... Nov 17 13:55:01 reinstalling apps for the first time in a long time, I once again curse HAM for not allowing multiple selections, or bg installs Nov 17 13:57:33 rootsh and apt-get :) Nov 17 13:58:11 tigert: yeah, but if I want to go down the list and install stuff, a ui is useful Nov 17 13:59:55 lardman|home: you could have backed-up a list of installed applications, then supplied that to apt-get ;) Nov 17 14:00:13 I know, but I was told to do a fresh install ;) Nov 17 14:00:14 You could even create your own debian meta-package Nov 17 14:00:33 lardman-0.1.deb :P Nov 17 14:00:34 yeah, not very useful for an end user mind you :D Nov 17 14:00:57 Well, it just has to be an empty project that depends on all the stuff you want ;) Nov 17 14:01:09 s/project/package/ Nov 17 14:01:16 I know that, but again, not a very useful thing for an end user Nov 17 14:02:45 * lardman|home also curses the way the list forgets its position, have to install stuff from Z to A not vice versa to reduce scrolling Nov 17 14:03:10 and how one can only select one at the time for install Nov 17 14:03:11 IT used to remember position, have they removed that in maemo5 too? ^.^ Nov 17 14:03:18 the combination is major suckness. Nov 17 14:03:22 :/ Nov 17 14:03:25 alterego: yep Nov 17 14:03:29 bug report? Nov 17 14:03:45 alterego: yeah I put one in, I'll look for the # Nov 17 14:04:51 Hi ... Nov 17 14:05:00 hmm, can't seem to find it.... Nov 17 14:05:31 does someone know why every one and the wiki is saying that maemo summit preproduction device emmc need to be flashed ? Nov 17 14:05:34 N900 users don't need to reflash the eMMC of their device. If you are reading this it's probably because you got a pre-production device e.g. in the Maemo Summit. If you have a sales unit and you have problems with your eMMC you should contact Nokia Care. Nov 17 14:05:39 ??? Nov 17 14:06:04 Khertan: because it should? :P Nov 17 14:06:09 Heh Nov 17 14:06:14 not really ... Nov 17 14:06:29 Khertan: because they changed the eMMC between prerelease and release Nov 17 14:06:33 ? Nov 17 14:06:42 they change ? the content ? Nov 17 14:06:53 I'm wondering about the latest rumour of nokia shipping n900 by boat from korea. doesn't hardware like this always get shipped by boat to the major continents? >.> Nov 17 14:07:20 just imagine the horror if the ship sank.. Nov 17 14:07:21 :P Nov 17 14:07:28 somalian pirates Nov 17 14:07:32 Khertan: They changed some low-level stuff that can't be fixed in a seamless update. Nov 17 14:07:35 with 900s Nov 17 14:07:35 Stskeeps: it was already the case for apple and ipod : Nov 17 14:07:38 n900s Nov 17 14:07:46 God moving to high seas! Nov 17 14:07:51 lol Nov 17 14:08:04 ccooke: oh really ? Nov 17 14:08:22 Khertan: It's only the pre-release devices that need the update Nov 17 14:08:31 ccooke: should i do it ? i've flashed the firmware but not the emmc Nov 17 14:08:38 I'm not sure what the changes are, but I can think of a few things it *might* be Nov 17 14:08:48 Khertan: Stskeeps: nokia simply suggests replacing the eMMC because nobody tested of keeping it works Nov 17 14:08:51 for instance, if they changed the partition sizes a little Nov 17 14:09:09 tbf: ah ok ... Nov 17 14:09:16 tbf: thx ... Nov 17 14:09:37 so i should do it ... Nov 17 14:09:48 just in case Nov 17 14:10:09 Khertan: yes, would be better. Nov 17 14:10:24 Khertan: if you flashed it and get trouble, you know for sure that nokia is to blame Nov 17 14:10:52 tbf: i ve already flashed it ... and didn't got any problem Nov 17 14:11:06 by flashed i mean the firmware not the emmc Nov 17 14:11:32 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1148 needs to be reopened for Maemo 5 Nov 17 14:11:33 Bug 1148: After successfull installation, app-manager selects the very first installable package Nov 17 14:11:44 Khertan: What if you have a problem in the future? Nov 17 14:11:44 yea Nov 17 14:11:57 ccooke: so i ll blame myself Nov 17 14:12:11 that's fair :-) Nov 17 14:12:23 yep Nov 17 14:12:31 as i didn't follow recommandation Nov 17 14:13:05 hmm Nov 17 14:13:15 hi Nov 17 14:13:22 *ages* ago, there was a page on the wiki tracking the bugs that would be fixed in fremantle Nov 17 14:13:47 (I'm talking late last year sometime, I think - probably not early this) Nov 17 14:13:54 Can't find the damn thing now, though Nov 17 14:14:02 * ccooke is trying to double-check some stuff Nov 17 14:16:28 GAN900, Ping? Nov 17 14:23:29 I noticed the eMMC image had an older version than the other image... why's that? Nov 17 14:23:46 just depends on which week it was made Nov 17 14:24:48 lbt_: eMMC changes less frequently than the s/w Nov 17 14:24:49 so version is more like "best before" date than "ingredients".... hmm Nov 17 14:24:52 ouch ... my python script is really long to backup my n900 compare to my n810 Nov 17 14:25:01 32Go VS 2Go Nov 17 14:25:12 Jaffa: doesn't the eMMC contain the s/w ? Nov 17 14:25:23 or do I need to do both ? Nov 17 14:25:24 lbt_: maps Nov 17 14:25:31 sw is in the main flash image Nov 17 14:25:56 if i understand flashing is done in two times Nov 17 14:25:56 * lbt_ thought the eMMC was a complete 'disk' image including repartitioning Nov 17 14:26:01 so i don't think Nov 17 14:26:05 Khertan: ah Nov 17 14:26:12 that is *not* clear Nov 17 14:26:18 yep clearly not Nov 17 14:26:37 but i ll be able to confirm you in 30 minutes Nov 17 14:26:42 heh Nov 17 14:26:50 (eta of my backup script) Nov 17 14:28:13 is HAM developed in git? Nov 17 14:28:18 yes Nov 17 14:29:32 good Nov 17 14:30:01 noone have yet compile a git version useable on n900 and garage.maemo.org ? Nov 17 14:30:15 of HAM? Nov 17 14:30:30 So "Having flashed the eMMC you should now flash your device." Nov 17 14:30:44 yeah Nov 17 14:30:48 bbiab Nov 17 14:30:53 AFAIK you do not need to flash eMMC Nov 17 14:30:56 not this one anyway Nov 17 14:31:14 * lbt_ is conflicted Nov 17 14:32:59 quim said" Nov 17 14:33:01 but it's very Nov 17 14:33:02 important for those that got a pre-production device since they will Nov 17 14:33:04 need to reflash the eMMC in order to get the N900 as it comes out of the Nov 17 14:33:06 sales box. Nov 17 14:33:15 is pre-production != summit Nov 17 14:33:38 so pre-production == fremantle stars Nov 17 14:35:56 lbt_: wrong) Nov 17 14:36:09 I suspect that it's pre-optification Nov 17 14:36:22 hey :p Nov 17 14:38:06 lbt: Well, last fremantle stars eMMC already had /opt and I was told at the summit that I did not need to flash new eMMC Nov 17 14:38:19 lbt: The new eMMC image is the same time as the summit (41.10) Nov 17 14:39:13 hi, I updated the firmware to N900, but now extras-devel won't work, complains that there is no hash entry in Release file. does anyone know how to get it to work? Nov 17 14:39:32 jeremiah_: ^ Nov 17 14:39:58 * Shapeshifter is a bit bored with waiting. Nov 17 14:40:24 RST38h: yes, that's what I noticed Nov 17 14:40:42 it would be soo interesting to see the position of "your" future device on a map, with GPS ;) That would be wicked. Nov 17 14:41:00 so we should reflash eMMC to the same as it is and then flash new fiasco image? Nov 17 14:41:08 you could watch it for ours, strolling over the indian ocean or the pacific Nov 17 14:41:12 *hours Nov 17 14:41:32 dneary, pong? Nov 17 14:41:48 GeneralAntilles, So - are you able to come to Barcelona? Nov 17 14:42:09 GeneralAntilles, You're part of a select group who have actually done stuff to make Maemo docs better :) Nov 17 14:42:22 It'd be great to have you there, if you could make it Nov 17 14:42:43 Not really, and I don't think sponsorship is actually available for non-EU people. Nov 17 14:48:37 Hi. I love to call my friends and send sms's with my new nokia n900. Also I can check the time just by simply looking at the screen. And if I need to wake up early - I can just set the alarm! I'm Andrew and tthis is MaeVoice. Nov 17 14:49:14 eeek Nov 17 14:49:25 a Nov 17 14:49:33 guys, where can I download the NSU? Nov 17 14:49:34 sounds unique Nov 17 14:49:37 innovative Nov 17 14:50:12 waz1: to some freerunner users that would be their reason for buying a n900. Nov 17 14:50:13 aSIMULAter: that was the goal :) Nov 17 14:50:36 Stskeeps: sheesh :D Nov 17 14:51:32 Ohoh! I can interact with the phone by touching the screen itself Nov 17 14:52:04 * Shapeshifter needs to grow a fingernail Nov 17 14:52:04 Take that, iphone! Nov 17 14:52:30 wazd: Google says Andrew is dead. Nov 17 14:52:47 Killed in Iraq. Nov 17 14:53:22 Poor fiferboy, we'll miss you! Nov 17 14:54:20 re Nov 17 14:55:20 hmm, /me wonders if 30min is the median level of wasted time expended installing applications using HAM after a clean install..... Nov 17 14:56:37 RST38h: whhat?! Nov 17 14:57:20 RST38h: what?!! Nov 17 14:57:29 wazd: do a google search for Andrew Olmsted Nov 17 14:57:36 you will see Nov 17 14:58:11 in 2008 :P Nov 17 14:58:46 Dude! Nov 17 15:00:19 lol Nov 17 15:00:40 That's not fun! Nov 17 15:00:45 Fuck... Nov 17 15:01:36 RST38h: damn you) Nov 17 15:02:04 * RST38h moos woefully Nov 17 15:02:05 btw, Maemo-Barcelona long weekend participants list is now live: http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo-barcelona_long_weekend/ (hurry up :P) Nov 17 15:03:30 RST38h: seriously, dude! :D Nov 17 15:05:28 * VDVsx thinks waz1 drank to much vodka at lunch :P Nov 17 15:06:19 VDVsx: what?) Now *I* am drunk?) Nov 17 15:07:01 gents Nov 17 15:07:06 I need the NSU, can anyone send it to me? Nov 17 15:07:12 I need to update my N900 for the meeting tonight Nov 17 15:07:30 crashanddie, just install nokia pc suite Nov 17 15:07:40 or use the flasher Nov 17 15:07:49 waz1, ;) Nov 17 15:07:59 crashanddie: girs get hot when they see fresh n900 :D Nov 17 15:08:41 I see that everyone is talking about this N900 meeting tonight, but what/where is that? is it the barcelona long weekend thing? Nov 17 15:08:54 zacky: no, it's in London Nov 17 15:08:55 london i think Nov 17 15:09:12 anyone got an info url? Nov 17 15:09:19 not really Nov 17 15:09:23 I was asked to join by email Nov 17 15:09:31 ok, so what is it? Nov 17 15:10:25 anyone who come from Japan Nov 17 15:10:26 Who in the world decided to makee meetings on tuesday? Seriously :) Nov 17 15:10:49 mobile monday, n900 tuesday! Nov 17 15:10:59 or maemo tuesday even Nov 17 15:11:15 zacky, http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/n900meetup/ Nov 17 15:11:41 Maeuesday, let's follow community trend :) Nov 17 15:13:08 waz1, did you got a seat for the Moscow meetup ? all booked now Nov 17 15:13:41 VDVsx: yep Nov 17 15:13:48 it's also on a Tuesday, lolol Nov 17 15:13:52 ah, thanks VDVsx. Nov 17 15:14:04 VDVsx: don't need a passport for that :D Nov 17 15:14:25 waz1, ehehe, you never know :P Nov 17 15:14:56 VDVsx: mheheh Nov 17 15:15:53 * waz1 coughs Nov 17 15:18:01 how about N920? Nov 17 15:18:07 plaa Nov 17 15:18:19 stupid nokia, they don't have the NSU on their website yet Nov 17 15:18:26 even though they reference the N900 Nov 17 15:18:34 Moolenaar: what about it? Nov 17 15:19:36 new device. made by nokia Nov 17 15:20:24 Moolenaar: URL or it didn't happen? Nov 17 15:21:08 crashanddie, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php Nov 17 15:21:15 http://www.pocketables.net/2009/10/nokia-n920-possibly-already-in-the-works.html Nov 17 15:21:34 Moolenaar: http://senseapplied.com/index.php/nokia-n920-its-a-hoax/ Nov 17 15:21:40 Moolenaar: u fail Nov 17 15:21:45 :rolleyes: Nov 17 15:21:45 oups ... does there is a control of device number before flashing ? Nov 17 15:22:00 as my n810 and my n900 are connected to the pc with usb Nov 17 15:22:09 i don't know which device was found Nov 17 15:22:34 An N810 with Maemo 5, woo Nov 17 15:22:42 a breaked n810 Nov 17 15:22:49 Or a bricked N810.. less woo Nov 17 15:22:54 lol @ http://www.cowlark.com/2009-11-15-go/ Nov 17 15:23:18 wait Nov 17 15:23:36 http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/10/15/nokia-n920-keyboardless-big-screen-n900-successor-shows-up/ Nov 17 15:23:59 Moolenaar: did you read the link I gave you? Nov 17 15:24:09 :D Nov 17 15:24:16 ok the n900 reboot Nov 17 15:24:18 so it found the right device Nov 17 15:24:22 * Flandry is back with another random hardware/software question Nov 17 15:24:26 Moolenaar: "It all started with Exitus , trying to make a concept touch screen phone and he started with a template ( much like iPhone 3GS ) added the screenshot of Maemo 4 yes MAEMO 4 from Nokia N810 not the latest upcoming MAEMO 6 Harmattan and tweeted it and the whole world was after it ." Nov 17 15:24:48 maemo 4. not even maemo 5. maemo 4. or even older. Nov 17 15:25:24 ouch ... n900 rebooting loop Nov 17 15:25:45 yes. maybe you are right Nov 17 15:25:57 Moolenaar: not maybe ... sure Nov 17 15:26:06 Khertan: you're mixing things up Nov 17 15:26:10 I, for one, welcome our new Maemo 4 overlords. Nov 17 15:26:13 oh, nevermind Nov 17 15:26:16 I fail this time Nov 17 15:26:22 * Myrtti goes to get more coffee Nov 17 15:26:34 Myrtti: you are mixing people :) Nov 17 15:27:39 I wonder how much effort it would be to go from mer to a usable phone platform - for 'Nokla'. Nov 17 15:27:43 Myrtti, that's Bora, actually. Nov 17 15:28:09 SpeedEvil: depending on ofono and telepathy-ofono quality Nov 17 15:28:21 Given that an app will not be taking advantage of 3D rendering (just compositing), what would be the most eficient way to draw to the display in SDL? Nov 17 15:28:34 *N900 display Nov 17 15:28:38 ofono? inter and nokia Nov 17 15:31:39 SpeedEvil: and if they can get proper GLES drivers Nov 17 15:37:00 any changed there useragent on n900 to view iphone pages automaticlly Nov 17 15:37:22 nope to view iphone mini page Nov 17 15:37:35 but i change it to bypass sfr proxy limitation Nov 17 15:37:52 but for any reason the useragent is reset as each microb reboot Nov 17 15:38:06 and microb doesn't seems to use the users.js Nov 17 15:45:40 Is 42-11 significantly slower than 41-10 for people? Nov 17 15:46:09 I can't even get it to stream videos without buffering every 3 seconds. Nov 17 15:46:51 on the contrary Nov 17 15:47:55 Interesting Nov 17 15:48:14 I wonder what's broken here. Nov 17 15:49:54 That's cool, too. Nov 17 15:50:36 is maemo4 dead now or can we expect more releases? Nov 17 15:50:45 signs that N900 has gotten something right: a apple freak from my former uni who's waiting for his N900 Nov 17 15:51:07 sgbirch: there's a community SSU effort Nov 17 15:51:20 SSU ? Nov 17 15:51:47 seamless software update Nov 17 15:53:58 jeremiah: ping? extras-devel needs a reindex or whatever, no hash in packages or no packages in hash or whatever ...the usual :) Nov 17 15:54:25 Stskeeps: got it.. thx Nov 17 16:01:11 im having trouble mounting a ramdrive Nov 17 16:01:16 http://pastebin.com/m58435a53 Nov 17 16:03:09 GAN900: your interwebs Nov 17 16:03:19 GAN900: stop microwaving those nachos Nov 17 16:03:47 GAN900: maybe you can help me, tell me where I can get NSU Nov 17 16:04:47 The Nseries site crashanddie_ Nov 17 16:05:08 http://wiki.omap.com/index.php/ETechDays_Community_Lightning_Talks is happening right now if anyone is interested Nov 17 16:05:41 Nice Nov 17 16:05:53 alterego: where then? Nov 17 16:06:01 Oh, I must remember to download the last.fm, facebook, twitter thin g on xbox tonight. Nov 17 16:07:23 It's part of PC suite Nov 17 16:07:37 It looks like the n900 is generating a ton more interest than the n810. Hopefully the maemo community will expand as a result Nov 17 16:07:51 it has, some claim to the worse; ) Nov 17 16:07:58 Heh Nov 17 16:08:10 Stskeeps: the unwashed masses! Nov 17 16:08:52 Stskeeps: My only observation is that the number of upgrades pushed out seems to be quite low Nov 17 16:09:04 for n810 yeah Nov 17 16:09:11 smackpotato, that's not how you mount tmpfs Nov 17 16:09:21 Stskeeps: at the application level, I mean. Compared to (say) debian or ubuntu. Nov 17 16:09:44 ah Nov 17 16:09:48 smackpotato, if you really want a fixed-size ramdisk, mount -t ext2 /dev/ram1 Nov 17 16:09:59 finally at home Nov 17 16:10:00 smackpotato, if you want tmpfs, you don't need to muck with /dev/ramX at all Nov 17 16:10:16 The eternal september of maemo =) Nov 17 16:10:18 Stskeeps: My worry is that the real appeal of the n900 is the *potential*. Nov 17 16:10:21 smackpotato, the difference is that tmpfs grows and shrinks automatically depending on content; ramdisk is fixed size Nov 17 16:10:25 nobody uses ramdisks anymore really Nov 17 16:11:21 mgedmin: no one on ARM Nov 17 16:11:30 mgedmin: I use initrd on my laptop Nov 17 16:11:57 hrw, /dev/ramX is not the same thing as initrd/initramfs Nov 17 16:12:08 ok Nov 17 16:12:12 Stskeeps: It sure is a nice device, and fantastic work has been done. But the potential is absolutely incredible. Nov 17 16:12:40 lardman, Jaffa: You guys going to talk about something specific? Nov 17 16:13:56 crashanddie_: how about this ... is there a definitive answer on turn-by-turn navigation, will it have it? Nov 17 16:14:00 crashanddie_: talk? Nov 17 16:14:09 does autobuilder update its debs from extras or extras-dev (fremantle?) Nov 17 16:14:26 sgbirch: and you are asking me because? Nov 17 16:15:06 crashanddie_: you are as good as anyone Nov 17 16:15:11 uploading to extras wiki page says "After the autobuilder builds a package, it will be available in Extras-Devel. " but afaik there is some delay before it's available for autobuilder Nov 17 16:15:29 sgbirch: actually, I'm better than most, but still, I don't see why the question was directed toward me Nov 17 16:15:45 cosmo, there's a queue for the auto-builder,. Nov 17 16:15:54 crashanddie_, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php Nov 17 16:16:15 i think it must use packages from extras-dev if they are available Nov 17 16:16:17 alterego: you mean before or after it? my package went already through autobuilder ok Nov 17 16:16:31 Then it should be in extras-devel now. Nov 17 16:16:41 sorry, are you talking about build dependencies? Nov 17 16:17:06 Ah Nov 17 16:17:32 GAN900: thanks, got the flasher? Nov 17 16:17:34 crashanddie_:I was just responding to the comment about those guys talking about something specific. Nov 17 16:17:44 sgbirch: ah, I see Nov 17 16:17:46 crashanddie_: It was half a joke .. but the question is a good one Nov 17 16:17:51 i am getting good battery life on n900 with surfing and mÃedia playbck Nov 17 16:17:55 crashanddie_: what are you talking about talking about something? Nov 17 16:17:55 crashanddie_, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ Nov 17 16:18:07 sgbirch, Sygic announced a port. Nov 17 16:18:10 lardman: tonight? You're not going to give a little speech? Nov 17 16:18:13 ? Nov 17 16:18:15 crashanddie_: I guess it was ok as an add in, but it looks like google will add it Nov 17 16:18:21 lol Nov 17 16:18:34 to my wife....? Nov 17 16:18:37 lardman: you not at the meetup tonight? Nov 17 16:18:42 crashanddie_, not that he knows of, it seems. ;) Nov 17 16:18:43 what meetup? Nov 17 16:18:48 Ha Nov 17 16:18:49 lol Nov 17 16:18:54 lardman: you willy wanker Nov 17 16:19:02 lardman: there's a meetup tonight in London Nov 17 16:19:03 * GAN900 throws a cluebat at lardman. Nov 17 16:19:07 ah, news to me Nov 17 16:19:09 lardman: people have been talking about it for weeks? Nov 17 16:19:10 so. who *is* going? Nov 17 16:19:16 lardman: get the feck out of your cave, batman Nov 17 16:19:32 the autobuilder is really slow, or i'm missing some mails.. pretty confusing Nov 17 16:19:35 crashanddie_: I didnt get an invite ... is it too late? Nov 17 16:19:42 crashanddie_: I've not been paying much attention to irc in case you'd not noticed, been ill, then painting my flat Nov 17 16:19:42 I wish I was Nov 17 16:19:51 alterego, it mostly just manages to clutter things up. Nov 17 16:19:53 I wish I was going to Barcelona too Nov 17 16:19:58 lardman: if it was the other way around, I would've said the paint made you ill Nov 17 16:20:01 Does there is something about key shortcut in the maemo hildon guidelines ? Nov 17 16:20:04 crashanddie_: I called the London store and they knew nothing about ut Nov 17 16:20:04 yeah Nov 17 16:20:08 i got the package through diablo builder but for fremantle i still haven't got reply mail although i submitted the package at the same time Nov 17 16:20:09 why does he need to get out of his cave? He just uses everyone's N900s for echolocation... Nov 17 16:20:17 lardman: what happened? Nov 17 16:20:23 lardman: were you that sick you had to paint the flat? Nov 17 16:20:53 nah, not feeling too hot for a week, then busy at work, then moving stuff out of flat to allow painting, then doing the painting Nov 17 16:20:56 sgbirch: there was a website, you had to subscribe Nov 17 16:21:18 crashanddie_: was it taken down? Nov 17 16:21:19 lardman: because it really sounded like you were sick all over the walls for a second there :P Nov 17 16:21:25 lol Nov 17 16:21:27 sgbirch: only 80 seats or something Nov 17 16:21:30 no no! :D Nov 17 16:22:07 Mr. Creosote? Nov 17 16:22:08 crashanddie_: They think they only have 80 fans!!! Nov 17 16:22:55 sgbirch: no, they only *want* 80 people, there will be drinks or something Nov 17 16:23:16 sgbirch: they've done the same in Helsinki, Moscow, etc Nov 17 16:23:32 never mind, school night anyway, so probably wouldn't have been able to make it, tho my wife is in London tomorrow iirc Nov 17 16:23:38 sgbirch: tbh, I'm just going because I've been asked to go, and I'll probably return my N900 at the same time Nov 17 16:23:51 Return? Nov 17 16:23:56 crashanddie_:why are you returning it? Nov 17 16:24:08 ohai sgbirch Nov 17 16:24:10 well, moving to Oz and all, it's not like it'll be easy to return it later on Nov 17 16:24:22 you're moving? Nov 17 16:24:23 Airmail Nov 17 16:24:26 again, news to me Nov 17 16:24:26 lardman: yeah Nov 17 16:24:30 where to? Nov 17 16:24:35 lardman: news to nearly everyone, going to Brisbane Nov 17 16:24:38 crashanddie_:oh .. cool Nov 17 16:24:50 fag break, see ya in a bit Nov 17 16:24:58 crashanddie_: cool, or rather, warm :) Nov 17 16:25:21 intercontinental slang collisions are an endless source of amusement Nov 17 16:26:17 Flandry: no, you just need to start learning real English a bit more or speak with more foreigners Nov 17 16:26:21 lardman: PM Nov 17 16:26:33 What, he's not taking a break to ride his Harley? Nov 17 16:26:47 yeah, his "Harley" Nov 17 16:27:05 /South Park Nov 17 16:27:57 crashanddie: I used to say that everything i need to know in life, i learned from the English translation of Tintin. Wait for it... Nov 17 16:28:18 alterego: yep, at least on diablo builder the package that went through is not available for autobuilder yet Nov 17 16:29:12 ..and same for fremantle Nov 17 16:29:14 never learned proper usage of those colloquialisms though :D Nov 17 16:48:15 crashanddie_: I'm probably going to aim to get to the hotel about 18:30ish, got a room so going to change (and can stay out on the lash ;-)) Nov 17 16:51:38 Jaffa: haha, awesome Nov 17 16:51:42 so we have a room to trash Nov 17 16:59:16 bbl Nov 17 16:59:22 ttfn Nov 17 17:03:53 I heard rumours that the finnish Nokia Shop would start shipping this friday Nov 17 17:04:57 I called the London shop and they didnt have a clue Nov 17 17:05:19 They also didnt know about the meeting tonight Nov 17 17:05:35 lol Nov 17 17:05:42 gj from them then :) Nov 17 17:05:56 that's because really, Maemo is a cover story for the Renegade Freemasons Alliance Nov 17 17:05:56 which meeting? Nov 17 17:05:56 Jaffa: re ohmd Nov 17 17:06:20 IIRC it was designed as a very low level policy manger Nov 17 17:06:37 To quote nokia.co.uk 'This order has not shipped.' Nov 17 17:06:37 nothing important.... just thermal throttling the CPU Nov 17 17:06:57 can't see any problems using stop ohmd.... <-- sarcasm ;) Nov 17 17:07:07 we're an obscure society membered of doctors, various PhDs and freethinkers, we want to impose our opinion and challenge status quo Nov 17 17:07:17 Nb Nokia may not be using it for this purpose Nov 17 17:09:38 nokia shop says that they start N900 preorder deliveries in Finland on friday, some potentially getting it already then... and preorders should be delivered everywhere in the country in a week Nov 17 17:10:01 I'm almost certain I'll miss my delivery if they refuse to change the shipping address to work... Nov 17 17:11:29 Nokia is trying to get pre-orders delivered during next week. (at least in Finland) Nov 17 17:11:39 shipping practically between 9am and 5pm, of course. Nov 17 17:14:55 kirma, i'm sure it's possible to change the shipping adress but they might make you pay extra for that :P Nov 17 17:19:45 crashanddie: you had me all excited until i realized you were joking :( Nov 17 17:20:43 howdy Nov 17 17:20:54 hi Nov 17 17:21:45 re Nov 17 17:21:58 WELCOME! Nov 17 17:22:56 * tga is looking for a way to schedule a job to run at certain times Nov 17 17:23:24 use libalarm Nov 17 17:23:39 any client for that? Nov 17 17:23:51 kirma, iirc my SmartQ7 came with UPS too, and the UPS guy had left it outside my kitchen Nov 17 17:24:00 (I was sound asleep having worked nights that week) Nov 17 17:24:13 * ShadowJK lives in the countryside and doesn't lock his door.. Nov 17 17:24:39 considering I live in apartment building with exterior door locked, I'd say it's rather unlikely it'd be left there... Nov 17 17:24:50 yuizy: I've been trying to figure out how to use alarmd but I can't find any straightforward documentation Nov 17 17:24:50 i'm not sure Nov 17 17:25:25 you want to run a single command? Nov 17 17:25:35 * Xisdibik goes over to ShadowJK's for breakfast Nov 17 17:25:53 make enough for two Nov 17 17:25:56 yuizy: yeah, mostly morning alarm stuff for now Nov 17 17:26:08 I constantly get surprised that I order stuff to my home address with express shipping when I really should make orders to work Nov 17 17:26:10 ShadowJK: only if you like Swedish Pancakes Nov 17 17:26:34 morning GeneralAntilles Nov 17 17:26:41 well i guess afternoon for you now Nov 17 17:26:49 * tga was impressed by a H2 today Nov 17 17:27:02 now if only I can get maemo on that hardware for a decent price Nov 17 17:27:24 * GeneralAntilles mutters evil things about kernel panics. Nov 17 17:27:49 tga: i used these examples http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Alarm_Framework Nov 17 17:27:49 tga, Maemo comes on the N900. Nov 17 17:27:58 Hi. With brand new n900 I can add numbers of my friends to the address book and each time they will call me - I will see name instead of number. And it has color screen too! I'm Andrew, and this is MaeVoice. Nov 17 17:28:01 You're not going to get "Maemo" on much else. Nov 17 17:28:01 I know, a bit out of my budget range atm Nov 17 17:28:15 tga, give it 6 months. Nov 17 17:28:15 well, Mer, whatever Nov 17 17:28:37 wazd, why are you making fun of MaeVoice? Nov 17 17:28:49 yuizy: thanks, wtf @ C programming though Nov 17 17:29:07 I just need a crontab, not an API Nov 17 17:29:18 cron isn't battery friendly Nov 17 17:29:31 notice I said crontab, not cron :) Nov 17 17:29:54 GeneralAntilles: because I can :D Nov 17 17:29:57 for what I need, I wouldn't even mind starting cron when I plug in Nov 17 17:30:39 GeneralAntilles: Ah, i'm not making fun of it in fact, that's a nice move if used wisely Nov 17 17:31:12 Gotta love it when ClearType screws up screenshotted tables: http://www.cnet.co.uk/i/c/blg/cat/mobiles/mobilebrowsertesttable.jpg Nov 17 17:31:14 Fail. Nov 17 17:31:17 GeneralAntilles: I was just amused by Tim's part when he says that it's amazing how music over a2dp stops when somebody calls :) Nov 17 17:32:15 * GeneralAntilles stabs subpixel to death. Nov 17 17:36:18 lbt_: Yeah, Eero's just said that. Seems to be conflating various tasks into random "let's shove something in to make it better" Nov 17 17:36:51 wazd: that's the "Awesome camera" effect Nov 17 17:37:48 tga: GeneralAntilles: Looking at a typical cron implementation, there's no reason why it'd be battery unfriendly. Doesn't give you the "switch the device on, if off, when this alarm goes off" Nov 17 17:37:55 crashanddie: I knew that! :D Nov 17 17:38:36 Jaffa: regular cron doesn't give you that option either, it's alright Nov 17 17:38:50 Seriously, n900 gives such an endless possibilities and people are stuck to the color screen and phonebook Nov 17 17:39:18 wazd: well what would be the über idea then? Nov 17 17:40:00 CoreFusion-: I can download latest "Lie to me" episode and watch it right onthe device while lazing on the beach Nov 17 17:40:09 CoreFusion-: that's the power! :D Nov 17 17:40:21 ah, should watch that today Nov 17 17:40:29 I'll go for enhanced reality Nov 17 17:40:31 thanks for reminding me! :D Nov 17 17:40:40 for me it's the fact that I can respond to a production emergency at work without having to lug around my laptop Nov 17 17:40:41 frals: yw :) Nov 17 17:40:46 Enhanced reality. Nov 17 17:40:51 seems to be the thing nowadays Nov 17 17:40:58 Got any people in your phonebook with annoyingly squeaky voices? Nov 17 17:41:06 Pitch-shift them automatically. Nov 17 17:41:13 that would actually be easy Nov 17 17:41:26 I can connect to my laptop at work and trick my boss while hanging out with my GF Nov 17 17:41:40 its all fun and games SpeedEvil until your mom finds out you made her sound like a truck driver dude Nov 17 17:41:46 * crashanddie_ would like to announce what his company is working on tonight Nov 17 17:41:48 Xisdibik: :) Nov 17 17:41:52 but would get sacked before the night is over Nov 17 17:42:05 Ah, finally fixed font rendering in Snow Leopard. Nov 17 17:42:08 Stupid Apple. Nov 17 17:42:11 secrecy is overrated Nov 17 17:42:19 congratz GeneralAntilles Nov 17 17:42:25 Employment, however, is not. Nov 17 17:42:32 GeneralAntilles: lol, Jobs claimed that he's a god of the Fonts Nov 17 17:42:35 well actually.. Nov 17 17:43:36 and god of everything shown on the screen eventually :) Nov 17 17:43:53 wazd, Windows font rendering makes my eyes bleed. Nov 17 17:44:02 It's a configuration issue with 3rd-party LCDs. Nov 17 17:44:18 * RST38h claims the same about Linux font rendering Nov 17 17:44:29 Windows is actually ok, well, for some fonts :) Nov 17 17:44:37 RST38h, configurable, depends on your configuration. Nov 17 17:44:46 I can make Linux look like Windows or OS X. Nov 17 17:45:13 from afar maybe Nov 17 17:45:27 Linux font rendering at least has an excuse: a number of the techniques are patented. Nov 17 17:45:31 Close enough to OS X that my eyes aren't bleeding, anyway. Nov 17 17:45:48 how many apps do you end up running on n900? for me usually 6-12 windows Nov 17 17:45:51 GeneralAntilles: haha, you're too used to that OSX soap render :) Nov 17 17:45:59 Though I think a few of the important ones just expired or are expiring soon. Nov 17 17:46:06 So that excuse will soon be gone. Nov 17 17:46:17 wazd, I'm used to on-screen text looking closer to print. Nov 17 17:46:19 I can hardly focus on ClearType. Nov 17 17:48:10 GeneralAntilles: I really hate that OSX soapy render, Better stick with sharp win fonts Nov 17 17:48:21 anyone have any tips on mounting a ramdrive Nov 17 17:48:31 smackpotat: what are you trying to do? Nov 17 17:48:42 i always get failed Nov 17 17:48:45 wazd, ew. Nov 17 17:48:49 * mgedmin looooves linux subpixel font rendering Nov 17 17:48:52 smackpotat read kernel doc about ramdisk Nov 17 17:48:58 smackpotat: I mean, what are you trying to accomplish with a ramdisk? Nov 17 17:49:00 and now let's discuss which vegetables are best Nov 17 17:49:06 death to tomatoes! Nov 17 17:49:15 tomatoes are fine Nov 17 17:49:22 pizza? Nov 17 17:49:29 i want to put .mozilla/microb in ram Nov 17 17:49:30 there are serval different sorts Nov 17 17:49:31 wazd, "sharp", i.e., "let's kill the character shapes" Nov 17 17:49:34 in color too Nov 17 17:49:36 smackpotat: why? Nov 17 17:49:43 from green to violet Nov 17 17:50:04 GeneralAntilles: yep, let's kill, if it's easier to read :) Nov 17 17:50:07 just an experment see if i can get any extra speed Nov 17 17:50:13 you won't Nov 17 17:50:16 because Linux already does it for you Nov 17 17:50:18 wazd, it's what you're used to. Nov 17 17:50:31 GeneralAntilles: glad you've got the point :) Nov 17 17:50:42 smackpotat: every time you read a file, Linux copies it to RAM and if it has enough RAM, tries to keep it there Nov 17 17:50:47 why not greenfly Nov 17 17:50:58 wazd, but that still doesn't change the fact that Windows' rendering is incorrect. ;) Nov 17 17:51:00 so the first time you load the files in that directory, it will already be in RAM and unless you max out your RAM, it should stay there Nov 17 17:51:10 so basically, Linux will handle the ramdisk more efficiently than you will be able to Nov 17 17:51:14 GeneralAntilles: every rendering is "incorrect" Nov 17 17:51:23 there are databases there that aRT CACHED Nov 17 17:51:28 and also will automatically make sure that changes are written to disk, etc. Nov 17 17:51:35 sorry Nov 17 17:51:38 GeneralAntilles: you can't make font look like printed one, not today Nov 17 17:51:44 smackpotat: i do it with tmpfs. quite easy. not sure if that'll work on the default kernel Nov 17 17:51:52 GeneralAntilles: maybe someday, yes, but not today Nov 17 17:52:06 again, the Linux file cache is more efficient and better than you will be Nov 17 17:52:15 some of today's devices are approaching 300 dpi Nov 17 17:52:17 GeneralAntilles: everything else doesn't really matters much Nov 17 17:52:17 does anyone happen to know a working cron? Nov 17 17:52:18 so no need to reinvent it with a clumsy ramdisk Nov 17 17:52:22 I remember when laser printers were 300 dpi Nov 17 17:52:23 you know what they say, fonts will only be perfectly rendered once we get hexagonal pixels Nov 17 17:52:25 all I found were dead links Nov 17 17:52:50 ok as i said its just an experment more for my education than anything Nov 17 17:53:05 smackpotat: next time you are in front of a command line, type 'free' Nov 17 17:53:15 cool Nov 17 17:53:23 do you get a free application? Nov 17 17:53:29 the value under the "cached" column is how many kilobytes Linux is already caching in RAM Nov 17 17:53:50 over time the value under "free" column should get close to zero and it will appear that all your RAM is used Nov 17 17:54:00 but it isn't, when an app needs RAM, Linux just borrows from the file cache Nov 17 17:54:26 again, more efficient use of your RAM without hard-coding, you know, 50Mb or whatever that nothing else can use if it needs it Nov 17 17:54:44 greenfly: i'm not sure if the maemo ff is still the default ff, but that one calls flush() after each write. Nov 17 17:55:01 aep: how would that affect this? Nov 17 17:55:09 you cant cache that Nov 17 17:55:16 we aren't talking about caching writes Nov 17 17:55:18 a ramdisk fixes it Nov 17 17:55:23 but caching reads Nov 17 17:55:25 you were Nov 17 17:55:34 ooh. well who cares about reads... Nov 17 17:55:36 i set the cache to writeback and it speeded microb up plenty Nov 17 17:55:47 the file system drivers take care of caching writes anyway Nov 17 17:55:59 flush mans flush. no caching Nov 17 17:56:05 aep: so it's more efficient to run an rsync every now and then to flush your ramdisk to disk? Nov 17 17:56:08 the problem is with microb's use of sqlight Nov 17 17:56:37 sqlite Nov 17 17:56:38 greenfly: if you have programs like ff that call flush() in a busy loop, yes Nov 17 17:57:10 not sure if they fixed it, i went away from it after chromium was released Nov 17 17:57:17 *shrug* sounds like a lost of extra effort to me for little if any gain Nov 17 17:57:24 like all those ricers who overclock their gaming rigs Nov 17 17:57:30 its a huge gain on devices with small I/O Nov 17 17:57:41 its usable vs unusable Nov 17 17:57:58 i'm quite certain that bug isnt present on mameo though Nov 17 17:58:05 alot of people would have noticed Nov 17 17:58:08 I dunno, I'm not seeing any major issues on the n900 with that Nov 17 17:58:20 browsing doesn't seem like it's lagging because it's waiting on IO Nov 17 17:58:27 yes it is a lot of extra time i say "why kill yourself when you can kill time" Nov 17 17:58:28 at least, not disk IO :) Nov 17 17:59:08 smackpotat: well go ahead try it,.. at least you'll learn how to fix it when it becomes an actual problem Nov 17 17:59:16 smackpotat: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=991205 Nov 17 17:59:26 (not my setup, google returned that) Nov 17 17:59:42 in any case, I just bring it up because in my experience people who talk about setting up ramdisks on Linux are unaware of the systems already in place Nov 17 18:00:05 asa re green says "if it at broke you arn't trying" Nov 17 18:00:15 oh well, you'll certainly will get nothing from read caches, thats true Nov 17 18:00:19 thanks for the link Nov 17 18:00:34 is it sampo who wrote ecoach? Nov 17 18:03:40 http://pastebin.com/m58435a53 Nov 17 18:03:42 Hello Nov 17 18:04:03 Does anyone know how hildon-application-manager lists the Installable packages? Nov 17 18:04:16 amaurymedeiros, technically? or sorting? Nov 17 18:04:26 andre__, technically Nov 17 18:04:27 it lists what is in the Packages file minus what's already installed Nov 17 18:04:37 this is what gos wrong when i try to mount a random ramdisk Nov 17 18:04:57 I found how it lists the installed packages.. Nov 17 18:05:22 with dpkg-query... Nov 17 18:05:46 smackpotat: does the mount point exist? Nov 17 18:06:01 smackpotat: otherwise, I imagine mount is provided by busybox, so may be missing options Nov 17 18:06:08 yes whit mkdir Nov 17 18:06:16 smackpotat: or, there's no tmpfs driver available...? Nov 17 18:06:52 i think there is but i dont know what to do with it Nov 17 18:07:08 maybenot Nov 17 18:08:48 umm Nov 17 18:09:05 why the hell are you creating something on disk Nov 17 18:09:11 i thought you wanted a RAM disk Nov 17 18:10:03 i do Nov 17 18:10:07 smackpotato, heh, the mountpoint you mkdir'ed is called 'ramdrive0', but the mountpoint you specified on your mount command line is called 'ramdisk0' Nov 17 18:10:40 nevertheless I continue to say that ramdisks are a Bad Idea and that you want to mount -t tmpfs none /home/user/ramdrive0 Nov 17 18:10:42 smackpotat: notice tmpfs doesn't actually use /dev/ram* (the "device" argument to mount is ignored) Nov 17 18:10:48 without any of that silly dd/mkfs stuff Nov 17 18:11:03 smackpotat: assuming tmpfs works at all, something like "mount -t tmpfs strawberries /mnt/point" will work Nov 17 18:11:44 tx mgedmin Nov 17 18:11:56 no need to assume, /etc/init.d/rcS creates several tmpfs mounts Nov 17 18:12:00 on a n900 Nov 17 18:12:20 and yes, tmpfs usually works these days, if only because it's used for /dev/ Nov 17 18:13:42 Does the hildon app manager uses dpkg to list INSTALLABLE packages? Nov 17 18:14:19 hildon app manager's sources are out there Nov 17 18:14:33 http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager Nov 17 18:16:12 I've already downloaded the source and searched a lot, but I found only how it lists INSTALLED packages. Now I need to find how it works with INSTALLABLE ones. Nov 17 18:16:15 :( Nov 17 18:16:22 hi zaheerm Nov 17 18:16:36 dmj726, h, sorry in meeting Nov 17 18:16:44 ok Nov 17 18:16:58 What's up with zope.interface? Nov 17 18:17:05 all I want to know Nov 17 18:17:22 amaurymedeiros, http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline/blobs/master/src/apt-worker.cc#line2841 Nov 17 18:17:39 "only_available" is what you want, I believe Nov 17 18:18:16 i thought app manager was one of the closed Nokia apps Nov 17 18:18:29 Flandry, it's been open source since 2005. :) Nov 17 18:18:37 maybe the weirdly narrow text columns in the description can be fixed then Nov 17 18:18:54 I want http://isitaclosednokiaapp.com Nov 17 18:18:55 Flandry, they'd welcome patches. Nov 17 18:19:02 k thx Nov 17 18:21:08 my ram is unstable Nov 17 18:21:10 Thanks, mgedmin.. I will try this :] Nov 17 18:21:31 anyone built advmame yet? command-line ver? Nov 17 18:22:05 no but i was looking into a mame port Nov 17 18:22:35 the maintainer of SDLMAME is going to target pandora, so it might be an easy port with GL ES support Nov 17 18:23:35 wooot Nov 17 18:23:44 woot woot woot Nov 17 18:23:55 sp3000: Thanks - I'll do that. Nov 17 18:24:17 sp3000: Garage has been uber-flaky :( Nov 17 18:24:37 http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=206713 Nov 17 18:25:07 i plan on working on it, anyway Nov 17 18:27:43 Flandry: You want mame4all btw Nov 17 18:28:06 Flandry: It is kinda outdated and kinda limited, but it is your best bet as far as ARM-based portables are concerned Nov 17 18:32:34 perhaps that will be a better option, but if a specific pandora target shows up in current SDLMAME, it will be a pretty good option as well Nov 17 18:32:58 anyway i'm just starting to dig into it Nov 17 18:33:32 Well, the difference will be the choice of CPU emulators Nov 17 18:33:55 mame4all is known to use ARM-optimized CPU cores like Cyclone. Not sure about generic SDLMAME, even if it has Pandora target Nov 17 18:35:21 does anyone tried to use the new sbox installer ? Nov 17 18:35:47 i will when my pc is stable Nov 17 18:36:37 i would like a network activity monitor like load monitor applet. ine bar up, one bar down. scaled to max up/down bandwidth measured Nov 17 18:37:06 not working in my ubuntu 9.04, hangs when needs to download the packages :( Nov 17 18:43:27 damn, how can a user make 400 posts in 1 month? :D Nov 17 18:43:46 addiction? Nov 17 18:43:57 I've made 411 in like 2 years :) Nov 17 18:43:58 diahrrea of the keyboard? Nov 17 18:44:04 that is only 12 a day or so Nov 17 18:44:22 Yeah, 12 a day is low for talk Nov 17 18:44:24 if you do not read, only write, like a lot of people, it is quite possible Nov 17 18:44:31 I can't even read 12 a day Nov 17 18:44:42 jeremiah: as I said, reading is not an issue Nov 17 18:44:52 heh Nov 17 18:44:56 So true, so true. Nov 17 18:45:21 ah "One of the big speed bumps in MAME history occured at 0.53 - when video went to 16-bit only. Before that MAME would use either an 8-bit or 16-bit. Nov 17 18:45:21 This is one good reason why handhelds tend to have versions of MAME before 0.53. Nov 17 18:45:21 ie. MAME4ALL uses 0.37b5 and previous to that used 0.34. Nov 17 18:45:26 N900 shipping delayed (3,469) <- ah, never mind :D Nov 17 18:45:40 I CAN HAZ NEW google-chrom? Nov 17 18:45:44 I CAN! Nov 17 18:46:38 Flandry: Mame4all still has 8bit support Nov 17 18:47:02 but for maemo you do not really want 8bit Nov 17 18:47:09 Right Nov 17 18:47:50 The old OS2008 xmame port was version 0.58 Nov 17 18:48:41 but the increasing amount of stupidity and animosity I've witnessed here since November started is truly ludicrous... Nov 17 18:48:45 | Joined on Sep 2009 Nov 17 18:49:25 I'll better stay with IRC :D Nov 17 18:49:41 wazd: it's a plot by Google to undermine Maemo... Nov 17 18:49:50 Yeah, there's a lot of effort put into crazy complaining and silly, pointless speculation. Nov 17 18:50:07 No, just the Tentacled One breeding his dinner... Nov 17 18:50:17 LOL: from t.m.o = My advice to would be buyers is hold off and get it cheaper from play.com - that'll teach em Nov 17 18:50:35 "that'll teach em" Nov 17 18:50:38 hahaha Nov 17 18:50:38 teach whom? Nov 17 18:50:52 that was about pre-orders direct from Nokia Nov 17 18:51:27 Like buying from another source would somehow not benefit Nokia.. Nov 17 18:51:30 I'd rather just get busy making the platform as application rich as possible Nov 17 18:51:51 dmj7262: You are not getting it Nov 17 18:52:41 dmj7262: The place has now filled up with geeks who can't write a single line of code but think they know everything about technology, based mostly on their gadget habits Nov 17 18:53:17 let's make closed section for "cool dudes" only :D Nov 17 18:53:19 dmj7262: Hence we are now getting all these "We should make for Maemo" Nov 17 18:53:35 agreed (sept 09 ftw, right? ;)) Nov 17 18:53:38 Yeah, I can't write just one line either Nov 17 18:53:40 I'M IN UR N9OO FIXIN' UR MALE KLIENT Nov 17 18:53:41 dmj7262: To which I have now started answering "No problem, download the SDK and start coding" Nov 17 18:53:53 Nov 17 18:54:02 dmj7262: "Can't code? Then stop whining." Nov 17 18:54:17 Does the N900 support ASP? Nov 17 18:54:29 Then there is a separate kind of messages of the type "I think Nokia should ..." Nov 17 18:54:32 keyword *just one* Nov 17 18:54:37 jeremiah_: ! Nov 17 18:54:42 jeremiah_: Just the man Nov 17 18:54:45 ehlo lardman! Nov 17 18:54:58 let me dig out that supersized tarball for you.... Nov 17 18:55:02 I sometimes make we should have... suggestions because I don't have the time for everything I think of. Nov 17 18:55:03 I missed you yesterday Nov 17 18:55:09 same here Nov 17 18:55:14 ;) Nov 17 18:55:27 Oh, was it me who wasn't here? Nov 17 18:55:32 It may have been =] Nov 17 18:55:35 nah, I think it was me actually Nov 17 18:55:38 okay Nov 17 18:55:49 long day, couldn't be arsed to boot the computer, etc Nov 17 18:55:53 heh Nov 17 18:56:01 I spent the entire evening / night on garage Nov 17 18:56:14 Trying to get diablo to move built packages to their little nests in the repos Nov 17 18:56:27 jeremiah: still 10-vote threshold for extras promotion though? Nov 17 18:56:32 ah, the famous diablo problem Nov 17 18:57:03 RST38h: I'm hesitant to hack the code without talking with Xfade first Nov 17 18:57:12 I mean, he has written a lot of it Nov 17 18:57:15 but the guy isn't coming back any time soon =) Nov 17 18:57:21 Yeah he is Nov 17 18:58:10 hm, 60k files in my build dir Nov 17 18:58:40 That's all? Nov 17 18:58:52 I do have 4 sb installations ;) Nov 17 18:59:00 this one has been going for only a month Nov 17 18:59:11 yowza Nov 17 18:59:22 not all in the root, in sub dirs too! Nov 17 18:59:59 I'll try uploading pocketsphinx one last time, and if it won't go, I'll stick it on my website for you to peruse Nov 17 19:00:21 What is it? =) Nov 17 19:00:29 voice recognition Nov 17 19:00:36 aha, speech recognition! and you have compiled flite too! Nov 17 19:00:48 yeah, flite is in extras-devel now Nov 17 19:00:54 http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/pocketsphinx/ Nov 17 19:00:58 lardman: Right-o Nov 17 19:01:31 Is the phone app open source? Nov 17 19:01:42 RST38h: but only for fremantle atm, should work for diablo too though I imagine, but will prob need vfp flags in rules Nov 17 19:02:12 and I couldn't be arsed to change targets and test tbh Nov 17 19:02:32 * RST38h remembers to recompile newest vrsions of his stuff for diablo Nov 17 19:02:54 I do, just takes a few days extra Nov 17 19:03:40 after I upload mbarcode I'll do some diablo hacking Nov 17 19:03:42 hi there Nov 17 19:03:52 in preparation for the sometime-coming pvr drivers Nov 17 19:04:06 i am looking for gst pkgs with gst-debug enabled Nov 17 19:04:18 philn-tp: recompile Nov 17 19:04:25 I imagine Nov 17 19:04:30 oh boy Nov 17 19:04:57 philn-tp: should be easy, just apt-get source and alter the rules file Nov 17 19:05:25 Yeah, a lot of libs and other stuff often come with debug packages. Nov 17 19:05:38 hmm, still "Sending request to garage.maemo.org..." Nov 17 19:05:42 not a good sign Nov 17 19:05:44 philn-tp: You may be able to pull a debugging package down from upstream Nov 17 19:06:14 bah.. i guess i'll recompile Nov 17 19:06:39 jeremiah: Nov 17 19:06:40 Maemo Extras Assistant Nov 17 19:06:40 Step 4: check uploaded files Nov 17 19:06:40 Checking your files: Nov 17 19:06:40 File upload error. (tar file) Please try to upload your packages again! Nov 17 19:06:49 okay Nov 17 19:06:53 There we have it. Nov 17 19:06:54 I'll stick them on my website and give you an url Nov 17 19:07:00 k Nov 17 19:07:08 oh, you reckon it's a real error? Nov 17 19:07:34 I suspect it is just blocking because you have hit some arbirary limit Nov 17 19:07:40 i gave up and used scp for the 130 MB game data package upload Nov 17 19:07:42 Which I would guess is 20 Megs Nov 17 19:08:02 not megs, Nov 17 19:08:18 Actually, perhaps they have put this in php.ini or somethign Nov 17 19:10:05 Looks like its 50 Megs Nov 17 19:14:58 nah, works for me, is a false error Nov 17 19:14:58 * lardman hopes his website has enough space for ~30Mb of extra data Nov 17 19:15:11 ~ping Nov 17 19:15:12 ~pong Nov 17 19:15:18 ah, much better Nov 17 19:15:44 is here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/pocketsphinx/ Nov 17 19:15:52 okay Nov 17 19:15:53 needs optification if anyone fancies it Nov 17 19:16:00 What am I looking for, a deb? Nov 17 19:16:05 Or a tarball? Nov 17 19:16:05 otherwise I'll get round to it eventually Nov 17 19:16:22 Ah, the whole kit Nov 17 19:16:24 Cool Nov 17 19:16:24 all the debian stuff, .tar.gz + .dsc + .changes Nov 17 19:16:27 ;) Nov 17 19:16:27 yup Nov 17 19:16:37 I'm learning, gradually.... Nov 17 19:17:03 * jeremiah_ goes to slurp packages Nov 17 19:17:15 ok so i recompiled gst and now can use GST_DEBUG ;) Nov 17 19:17:53 but a simple gst-launch audiotestsrc ! autoaudiosink fails .. to connect to pulseaudio Nov 17 19:18:59 does it work normally? Nov 17 19:20:17 lardman|home: uploaded and placed in fremantle Nov 17 19:20:39 Hi Nov 17 19:20:52 jeremiah: extras-devel? Nov 17 19:20:53 thanks Nov 17 19:21:15 can you make a note about upload sizes to pass onto Niels Nov 17 19:21:16 Yes Nov 17 19:21:19 Extras-devel Nov 17 19:21:20 cool Nov 17 19:21:26 lardman|home: What do you want me to say? Nov 17 19:21:33 That you could not upload because of size? Nov 17 19:21:46 just that it breaks for that package and I think it's related to the size of the tarball Nov 17 19:21:50 no clue why Nov 17 19:22:01 The tarball is only 21 megs Nov 17 19:22:06 weird Nov 17 19:22:25 yeah, but pretty big for a source tarball really Nov 17 19:22:36 Yes, indeed. Nov 17 19:23:28 when i tried to upload the 130 mb package, it would eventually error out saying i hadn't uploaded a .changes file Nov 17 19:23:42 hi, it seems that h-a-m ignores the recommends field of debian packages. is there any other way to pull in support packages during installation without a hard dependency? Nov 17 19:23:43 so a timeout of some sort Nov 17 19:24:08 okay Nov 17 19:24:24 I'll note that and make sure X-Fade sees it. :) Nov 17 19:24:37 pH5: patch HAM I fear, it has other shortcomings too Nov 17 19:24:52 pH5: would be nice if it asked if you wanted the recommends Nov 17 19:25:00 yes Nov 17 19:25:10 HAM could use some beefing up ;) Nov 17 19:25:24 Yeah, I agree. But that might get confusing quickly if your recommends recommends something Nov 17 19:26:05 Flandry: needs bg installation or multi (un)install Nov 17 19:26:17 like the iPhone or Android phones do, all in the bg Nov 17 19:26:34 Backgrounding installations would be awesome. Nov 17 19:26:48 Perhaps check to see if we are on the charger, download the Package file. Nov 17 19:27:02 yeah they would. I just found out it's actually open, so i will look into some improvements i had in mind Nov 17 19:27:05 should be doable, just keep a list of selected packages and then install anything that's not been installed yet, etc Nov 17 19:27:28 hm, did h-a-m on N8x0 prevent you from switching back to another app? Nov 17 19:27:30 installs deferred to wifi Nov 17 19:27:40 * pwnguin is confused Nov 17 19:27:41 ShadowJK: yeah, was modal Nov 17 19:27:41 that would be cool too Nov 17 19:27:46 Does Ovi Store cost? Nov 17 19:27:48 Flandry: I think Daniel Wilms is doing a new kinda thing with Qt to sorta augment HAM Nov 17 19:27:51 to subscribe to? Nov 17 19:27:57 pwnguin: can do, but needn't Nov 17 19:28:00 oh ok Nov 17 19:28:01 pwnguin: depends Nov 17 19:28:22 pwnguin: Ovi Mail is free. Nov 17 19:28:30 jeremiah: depends how quickly we get Qt of course ;) Nov 17 19:28:39 s/Qt/Maemo 6 Nov 17 19:28:41 4.6 is in though right? Nov 17 19:28:44 ah Nov 17 19:28:45 jeremiah: that reminds me, could i get you to remove the uqm-altstart pkg please? Nov 17 19:28:46 yeah Nov 17 19:28:56 bbiab, supper time Nov 17 19:29:03 Flandry: Yes, I'll do it right now Nov 17 19:29:07 thanks Nov 17 19:29:13 Flandry: Is it in diablo or fremantle? Nov 17 19:29:13 jeremiah_: for the purposes of this question, i'm just talking about the 50 dollar rebate offer Nov 17 19:29:18 fremantle Nov 17 19:29:26 Flandry: check Nov 17 19:29:40 pwnguin: I'm unfortunately not sure about that. Nov 17 19:29:49 yay, daily newb cleanup accomplished Nov 17 19:30:05 ? Nov 17 19:30:37 oh the package :) Nov 17 19:30:53 me or the package, either way :D Nov 17 19:31:41 jeremiah_: my guess is they're trying to get a lot of people "subscribed" to the store so they can go to commercial app vendors and have an interested customer base to point to Nov 17 19:32:25 and maybe some fake commercial success in their Ovi Store fueled by 50 dollar credits will lead to unsupported successes. i donno Nov 17 19:37:00 pwnguin: Well, they definitely want paid apps on Ovi Nov 17 19:37:00 That much I am sure about Nov 17 19:37:29 I think it is application developers who are driving the Ovi store Nov 17 19:37:39 I mean, Nokia has 1 billion customers Nov 17 19:37:55 So, an App store would be pretty successful I imagine Nov 17 19:38:27 is also for individual app devs to be able to use, not just large commercial firms Nov 17 19:38:50 and like the Android Market & iPhone App Store will allow both free and $ apps Nov 17 19:39:50 at least that's what I understood from the summit Nov 17 19:40:05 Flandry: i love uqm so much, sometimes i leave it running just for the tunes Nov 17 19:40:27 definitely recommend folks get the 3DO music Nov 17 19:40:45 uqm? Nov 17 19:40:49 which mod player did you use? Nov 17 19:40:53 yeah i need to get that promoted to testing Nov 17 19:41:08 The Ur-Quan Masters (gpl'd Star Control II) Nov 17 19:41:12 it keeps erroring with php errors Nov 17 19:41:33 it's an internal version of libmikmod Nov 17 19:41:34 is the share data optified? Nov 17 19:41:40 ok i used it too Nov 17 19:41:57 everything goes in /opt/uqm now Nov 17 19:42:14 ~lart the SDK for not having extras-* enabled Nov 17 19:42:15 * infobot beats the SDK into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy for not having extras-* enabled Nov 17 19:42:22 i don't even make links, just put it in opt and the desktop file points there Nov 17 19:42:40 good Nov 17 19:42:48 less changes Nov 17 19:42:51 extras is enabled on the device, yes? Nov 17 19:43:16 user must enable Nov 17 19:43:23 but repo is there Nov 17 19:43:36 dmj726: not by default, but the entry is there Nov 17 19:43:40 lardman: i requested that as a bug i think. qgil shout it down Nov 17 19:43:44 too late Nov 17 19:43:46 shot Nov 17 19:43:54 Flandry: in the SDK? Nov 17 19:43:58 yeah Nov 17 19:43:59 ah, so it's just that one checkbox that needs checking? Nov 17 19:44:12 hmm, do you have a #? Nov 17 19:44:14 dmj726: yep Nov 17 19:46:07 i'm looking. bugzilla search seems to have locked up firefox oO Nov 17 19:46:48 np :) Nov 17 19:47:16 "By the fetid breath of the dark twin Kazon!" Nov 17 19:48:05 searching "My Bugs" makes the tab unresponsive Nov 17 19:48:06 weird Nov 17 19:50:11 hehe, omweather reached 2k downloads :) Nov 17 19:50:21 ++ Nov 17 19:51:15 umm...are there that many devices out there yet? Nov 17 19:52:42 i downloaded omweather in the sdk.. Nov 17 19:52:55 Flandry: Removed uqm-altstart Nov 17 19:54:11 dmj726: from previous devices too Nov 17 19:54:59 oh...not as impressive hen. Nov 17 19:55:02 note to self, fix zbar so that python is a recommends rather than a dep Nov 17 19:55:03 *then Nov 17 19:58:55 finally: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5752 Nov 17 19:58:57 Bug 5752: Extras, extras-devel and extras-testing are not in the default apt sources.list Nov 17 19:59:09 wow, thanks povbot :D Nov 17 19:59:19 Flandry: message text in uqm is not high enough contrast for bright light imo Nov 17 19:59:34 aaaaah Nov 17 19:59:35 * Flandry is still creeped out by the awareness of IRC bots Nov 17 19:59:36 dark blue on dark blue looks cooÃl Nov 17 19:59:50 Olmsted is not dead, he's a father again :D Nov 17 19:59:52 which messages? Nov 17 19:59:57 should not be in defyult! Nov 17 20:00:08 from planet surface Nov 17 20:00:21 lander broadcast? Nov 17 20:00:25 yeah Nov 17 20:00:28 i agree Nov 17 20:00:38 i'll see if that's something i can fix :D Nov 17 20:01:03 it matches the blie on rest of screen Nov 17 20:01:21 i would either go cyan or green Nov 17 20:01:24 hmm, do I need to compile camerabin for myself to install in sb? Nov 17 20:03:49 Fwiffo is so great Nov 17 20:04:15 241.6 368.7 Huffi-Muffi-Duffi Nov 17 20:04:40 It's good you like him. He has thousands of related encrustlings or whatever the word is :D Nov 17 20:06:56 jeremiah: thanks. I'm beginning to think that the inability to view the package page for the big data package i mentioned earlier so that i can promote it to testing is a bug and not just due to slow servers. It fails every time with PHP errors and i've not seen that happen any other times. Nov 17 20:08:27 Hi ! Nov 17 20:08:35 hello Nov 17 20:08:50 Does there is know bug with openssh-server on Fremantle ? Nov 17 20:08:53 'PTY allocation request failed on channel 0' Nov 17 20:09:01 when i try to ssh from my desktop Nov 17 20:09:31 triscan scaler is my favorite in uqm - nice performance on N900 Nov 17 20:09:40 aaaaaah Nov 17 20:09:48 now I see where I saw that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVZ6E9EnJ3I Nov 17 20:10:29 pupnik: Oh, really? What kind of framerates do you get in combat? Nov 17 20:11:04 will check Nov 17 20:11:15 maybe it is too slow for combat Nov 17 20:11:43 [21:09] 'PTY allocation request failed on channel 0' <<< too many xterm open on the n900 Nov 17 20:11:44 :) Nov 17 20:11:52 heheh Nov 17 20:12:43 the pause feature rules Nov 17 20:13:52 jeremiah: Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/packages/handler/repository/repository.php on line 542 Nov 17 20:14:46 pupnik: how much cpu do you consume for the scaling atm? Nov 17 20:15:00 I'm weighting soft scaling vs compositing Nov 17 20:20:43 can not ssh into device konttori - diagnosing Nov 17 20:21:09 omap3 on non-nokia devices is going on live now. http://tinyurl.com/etechlightning on the Part 2 stream. Nov 17 20:22:01 konttori: Weighting for what? =) Nov 17 20:22:31 well, interested in how much the compositor scaling will help you guys Nov 17 20:22:45 as that was implemented 2 weeks ago Nov 17 20:22:59 I showed javispedro the example code on how to use it Nov 17 20:23:00 Software scaling is a bit tricky Nov 17 20:23:13 (to verify that he was ok with the api of it) Nov 17 20:23:21 konttori: you said it was not implemented in 1.0 release, but Iirc I saw the code on previous SDK' hildon-desktop Nov 17 20:23:26 Can I try compositing too? =) Nov 17 20:23:26 (as we needed to verify from at least one 'user' of the api) Nov 17 20:23:39 javispedro: yeah, it's up for the first SSU release Nov 17 20:23:56 RST38h: just get the latest desktop from git Nov 17 20:24:01 Right now it just uses the SDL to scale Nov 17 20:24:04 konttori: Software scaling only makes sense if you know exactly the ratio between source and destination bitmaps Nov 17 20:24:05 well user user, i'll have to switch from SDL to Gtk+, but I planned that either way. Nov 17 20:24:10 konttori: oh ok Nov 17 20:24:21 I think there is also the example code in git now Nov 17 20:24:42 konttori: But if you know the ratio, you can write very tight assembly code that scales your image, even with antialiasing Nov 17 20:25:36 yeah, I'm kind of assuming that that might or might not be faster. Nov 17 20:25:49 basically, the code puts the unscaled data in a new extra x11 window that the compositor handles in a special way -- converting from pixmap to texture the usual way but scaling the result Nov 17 20:25:50 it also uses a normal sdl canvas. I was considering changing it to a hardware canvas but don't know how much benefit there is in that Nov 17 20:26:07 Flandry: SDL to scale? Nov 17 20:26:11 javis: sounds somewhat complicated Nov 17 20:26:17 sdl 1.2 scaling functions are awfully slow! Nov 17 20:26:23 at least use sdl_gfx Nov 17 20:26:38 it may be uqm-specific code Nov 17 20:26:43 i just used what was there ;) Nov 17 20:26:58 you can actually select the scaling algorithm in the setup Nov 17 20:27:01 javispedro: hmm... cannot you use the scaling from sdl? Nov 17 20:27:13 (compositor scaling) Nov 17 20:28:03 konttori: it's not trivial for me right now how to paint to a GtkWindow right now -- RST38h may know that better than me. Nov 17 20:28:46 * javispedro is watching the Maemo on TI broadcast Nov 17 20:29:02 * Laiska also Nov 17 20:29:12 So, the scaling would only work for gtk? ouch, that sucks. Nov 17 20:30:03 I really didn't have the time to follow on the the implementation and figured your confirmation was enough Nov 17 20:30:04 yet another interview over Nov 17 20:30:05 konttori: SDL has no builtin scaling functions either way. Nov 17 20:30:07 my ear is burning Nov 17 20:30:19 :) Nov 17 20:30:24 Stskeeps: but as usual, good job Nov 17 20:30:33 ah, but setting the window properties of the sdl window should have been enough afaik Nov 17 20:30:43 fuck u Nov 17 20:30:45 that is doable I think Nov 17 20:30:50 that was what we pretty much agreed on pre-implementation. Nov 17 20:30:52 oOo Nov 17 20:31:01 toggles_w: sorry, focus.. Nov 17 20:31:06 lol Nov 17 20:31:09 that you need to set the scale region to the xwindow properties Nov 17 20:31:37 yeah, skipping the HildonAnimationActor stuff and just setting the proper xatoms Nov 17 20:31:52 what is ti broadcast? Nov 17 20:32:06 javispedro: that should do the trick Nov 17 20:32:22 konttori: http://wiki.omap.com/index.php/ETechDays_Community_Lightning_Talks Nov 17 20:32:35 did a talk on maemo on non-nokia devices Nov 17 20:34:26 cool Nov 17 20:34:36 well, will try this after dinner and see what needs to be done in sdl apps (if the latest sdk has that implemented) Nov 17 20:34:38 good presentation (checked the slides) Nov 17 20:34:43 quick and sweet Nov 17 20:34:43 :P Nov 17 20:35:52 Stskeeps: how was the reception of your presentation? Nov 17 20:36:11 hi guys Nov 17 20:36:25 what about maemo 5 / N900 and MMS with this http://www.mbuni.org/status.shtml ? Nov 17 20:36:48 konttori: deafening silence in irc channel but the main thing is that when someone comes and reads the presentation + the video with the slides on and me talking, it may in the future inspire someone to participate in Maemo on Beagle/Zoom2 or Mer. and that's what is worth something. Nov 17 20:36:57 frals: mms keyword, wake up! Nov 17 20:37:01 ;) Nov 17 20:37:08 BabelO: really interesting. Nov 17 20:37:10 mzzz so there was no noticible increase in speed with that ramdrive Nov 17 20:37:27 konttori: yes i see that interesting too :) Nov 17 20:37:32 * konttori needed to reboot his device after ubifs had totally wasted 100% of rootfs Nov 17 20:39:08 konttori nice Nov 17 20:40:11 konttori: need some work for the interface , but i ve no MMS full credit to devel this app :) Nov 17 20:40:41 konttori: triscan: 53% during conversations.39% during idle conversation Ãmenu Nov 17 20:41:32 wow. so, that is only the scaling? Nov 17 20:43:57 triscan is using 53% of CPU time during conversations? Nov 17 20:43:57 hmm Nov 17 20:44:09 is extras-devel borken? Nov 17 20:44:31 how so? Nov 17 20:44:35 /usr/bin/pulseaudio 18% cpu Nov 17 20:44:45 some no hash error Nov 17 20:44:57 planet rotastion view 31% Nov 17 20:45:48 konttori: uqm rarely/never does fullscreen updates Nov 17 20:46:03 ah. of course Nov 17 20:46:29 plugin headphones to decrease pulseaudio consumption Nov 17 20:46:54 it doesn't do equalization changes if you have headphones (or bluetooth) on Nov 17 20:47:13 nice hint ty Nov 17 20:47:50 it uses eq to get good performance out of tiny speakers konttori ? Nov 17 20:47:54 I would really like the equalization to be turnable off for also the speakers Nov 17 20:47:58 bahaha android port Nov 17 20:48:00 pupnik: that's the idea. Nov 17 20:48:19 hm ah Nov 17 20:48:21 19:30 David Schleef ds Theora decoding on DSP Nov 17 20:48:23 one capacitor would do the trick tolo :) Nov 17 20:48:26 and also to not-to-put 1000 Hz audio out, as that resonates on the device Nov 17 20:48:27 too Nov 17 20:48:33 ah Nov 17 20:48:45 hm stskeep too Nov 17 20:48:53 woglinde: He backed out. Nov 17 20:48:57 i wont ask about dsp :) Nov 17 20:49:13 * konttori really doesn't understand the reasoning on why to use the equalization and not a fraction of a cent costing chip Nov 17 20:49:44 tigert: It may be the mirrors Nov 17 20:49:54 jeremiah_: ok Nov 17 20:49:56 tigert: Can you paste the error you're getting? Nov 17 20:50:11 I can check the Packages file to see if it is corrupt Nov 17 20:50:17 konttori: chip or a capacitor? Nov 17 20:50:17 It happens. :( Nov 17 20:50:35 hm I wonder if this xmbc guy uses the dsp stuff Nov 17 20:50:42 RST38h: well, an electronic component, whatever does the trick(s) Nov 17 20:51:31 "no hash entry in Release file" Nov 17 20:52:09 konttori: capacitor will probably take more space Nov 17 20:52:20 moo rst Nov 17 20:52:52 remoo woglinde Nov 17 21:05:20 javispedro: darn, gf ninjamuted my laptop otherwise i wouldve answered ;-) Nov 17 21:05:59 frals: I knew there had to be some earth shattering excuse ;) Nov 17 21:06:53 ah the old ninjamutation excuse! Nov 17 21:11:08 Ninjamute! Nov 17 21:12:59 Gnundroid Nov 17 21:14:09 has anyone got qik working? qik.com/arnims should be live Nov 17 21:14:31 2mbit adsl Nov 17 21:14:53 i think 384kbit/s up Nov 17 21:22:02 http://zip.4chan.org/g/src/1258492069875.jpg You now want to go to pripyat Nov 17 21:24:51 Ceron^: what's that a picture of? Nov 17 21:27:33 JoeBrain: chernobyl area Nov 17 21:27:45 spooky Nov 17 21:27:46 JoeBrain: pripyat and area close to chernobyl Nov 17 21:28:29 Ceron^: oh, threadlink pls Nov 17 21:28:46 i have no thread sorry Nov 17 21:28:51 might be on englishrussia.com Nov 17 21:28:57 there was a post in the blogosphere some time ago, about someone taking the offer of a guided chernobyl trip Nov 17 21:29:09 oh okay, nvm Nov 17 21:29:11 v2px, http://community.livejournal.com/abandonedplaces/1651741.html Nov 17 21:29:40 or the www.kiddofspeed.com/ webpage... Nov 17 21:29:52 got it Nov 17 21:29:59 on 4ch Nov 17 21:30:00 :) Nov 17 21:30:55 now what was my original intention? ah yeah, forwarding bugs from internal to external [sic]... Nov 17 21:31:43 * VDVsx would like to visit that place :) Nov 17 21:32:12 * CoreFusion- is under a livelong surveillance because of that Nov 17 21:32:20 and get a good portion of radiation Nov 17 21:34:48 night all Nov 17 21:34:55 bye lardman Nov 17 21:35:52 johnsq, the radiation in the air is reported to be acceptable. it's the radioactivity in the soil that requires good footwear Nov 17 21:36:29 CoreFusion-, uh? Nov 17 21:36:48 and even that would have gone by now if back then they hadn't just burried under the soil, but carried it away and treated it as toxic waste Nov 17 21:38:35 andre_: I'm part of a randomly selected people born in 1985-1986 who are from time to time checked for various stuff Nov 17 21:38:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY2j_GPIqRA what is love by gates Nov 17 21:39:10 CoreFusion-, aha... interesting Nov 17 21:39:21 CoreFusion-: so you were born with a third leg? :P Nov 17 21:39:29 how would one unmap the hardware volume keys before starting an application? Nov 17 21:39:37 trying to get right-click back in vncviewer Nov 17 21:40:24 hi Nov 17 21:42:46 oh my god Nov 17 21:42:53 i just mounted the sd card without long filenames Nov 17 21:43:09 flashback to the past Nov 17 21:43:14 hehe Nov 17 21:43:48 greenfly, there's a page on the wiki. Nov 17 21:44:27 Hi There, anybody got their n900 yet? Nov 17 21:44:29 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Porting_Existing_GTK%2B_Application_to_Maemo_5#Remapping_volume_keys Nov 17 21:45:45 owen: The news is a lie. Nov 17 21:45:54 owen: it's not - yet - shipped to end users. Nov 17 21:46:05 some mention of Friday?? Nov 17 21:46:13 owen: It may have shipped to distributors, but not yet actual normal people. Nov 17 21:46:35 oh well I have installed the SDK and sandbox Nov 17 21:46:53 but my c skills are very rusty Nov 17 21:48:37 so when do you really think it will ship to end users??? Nov 17 21:48:56 before Christmas surely?!! Nov 17 21:49:05 Nokia shop here in Finland start delivering this friday and the goal is to have all pre-orders delivered during next week (only for those who have ordered directly from Nokia, others will follow the next week after that) Nov 17 21:49:38 i ordered from Nokia UK so here's hoping.... Nov 17 21:50:05 I noticed a subtle change in one of the operators' responses on webforums here in .fi. They said something like "looks currently like we'll be allowed to ship ", the 'allow' part could imply they have units Nov 17 21:50:29 ShadowJK: What operator? Nov 17 21:50:46 GeneralAntilles: thanks, I appreaciate it Nov 17 21:50:48 er, appreciate Nov 17 21:51:25 GeneralAntilles: ahh, so if I want a particular app to do this I'm going to need to modify that app's source it looks like Nov 17 21:52:16 greenfly, yes. Nov 17 21:52:26 Saunalahti Nov 17 21:52:29 okay Nov 17 21:52:29 any word on despotify Nov 17 21:53:07 ShadowJK: Sounds good :) that's where I have ordered my N900 :) Nov 17 21:53:20 I ordered from nokia Nov 17 21:54:56 owen: I have heard despotify is a straight compilation Nov 17 21:55:07 so, perhaps someone needs to take the time and package it. Nov 17 21:55:20 and then someone else to make UI for it. Nov 17 21:55:32 I mean the command line despotify works like a charm Nov 17 21:55:47 I saw some Qt version if I recall correctly Nov 17 21:55:47 hope so, I might get that hand of compliation by next summer Nov 17 21:55:49 http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/downloads/appsdown/1285-despotify-open-source-spotify-client-running-on-a-nokia-n900 Nov 17 21:55:59 that's it^ Nov 17 21:56:37 can someone please take the time and package that? Nov 17 21:56:56 I am not using it myself, but that would be wonderful for people who do use spotify. Nov 17 21:57:03 (anybody willing to invite me?) Nov 17 21:57:08 sure Nov 17 21:57:36 can be a good candidate for the UX hackfest, if it needs some UI love Nov 17 21:57:36 I'm running it under wine Nov 17 21:57:49 * CoreFusion- would like an invite too.. Nov 17 21:57:54 yeah, definitely needs UI love Nov 17 21:58:05 I need your email addys Nov 17 21:58:10 despotify needs paid account Nov 17 21:58:12 can you use spotify in Finland ? Nov 17 21:58:15 urho.konttori@gmail.com Nov 17 21:58:19 VDVsx: yeah you can Nov 17 21:58:36 it needs paid account? Nov 17 21:58:49 How much is it? Nov 17 21:58:57 does it work in the ad paid mode at all? Nov 17 21:59:01 free accounts are supported by ads and despotiy doesn't support playing spotify ads Nov 17 21:59:16 suihkulokki: can somebody just add the support? Nov 17 21:59:35 maybe the despot developers think it would be too easy to mod it not to play ads Nov 17 21:59:51 http://www.spotify.com/en/ --> 9.99 per month Nov 17 21:59:53 bahhh : " Spotify is currently available in Sweden, Norway, Finland, the UK, France and Spain. We hope to launch in more countries in the future." Nov 17 22:01:11 sent to urho Nov 17 22:01:25 owen: thanks Nov 17 22:01:29 hmph... too much for me, I hope they will implement support for ads Nov 17 22:01:50 I would also love to have the ad supported version. Nov 17 22:02:03 well, I can always use my mac, but still. Nov 17 22:02:05 owen: can you spare me one :) Nov 17 22:02:25 yeah sure whats your email? Nov 17 22:02:40 corefusion@gmail.com Nov 17 22:03:05 hx Nov 17 22:03:07 thx* Nov 17 22:03:16 sent Nov 17 22:03:33 only for Sweden, Norway, Finland, the UK, France or Spain. Nov 17 22:03:40 don't paste email here, the channel is logged, you're risking more spam :P Nov 17 22:03:41 according to website Nov 17 22:04:03 owen, yup, can't use it :( Nov 17 22:04:15 gmail has good spam filters though Nov 17 22:04:23 i was just about to say that :) Nov 17 22:04:26 Arrr Nov 17 22:04:42 have been using for years and i have had spam in my inbox less than 10 times Nov 17 22:05:13 pupnik: I changed the lander discovery font to light green in next uqm version Nov 17 22:05:22 thanks for reporting :) Nov 17 22:05:35 CoreFusion-, true, they could use their spam filters in google groups as well, my inbox spam is all from groups :( Nov 17 22:05:58 night all! Nov 17 22:06:49 nn Nov 17 22:07:47 later Nov 17 22:08:11 if you every use samba as server on a tablet, ensure you don't get selected as the domain local master. Nov 17 22:08:21 or watch your battery burn. Nov 17 22:08:44 well, with smb your battery will burn either way, but still. Nov 17 22:08:55 how big is the install of server+client, javispedro ? Nov 17 22:09:06 hum.. I didn't measure it. Nov 17 22:09:20 used to be giant Nov 17 22:09:39 well, the smbd binary is 2.6 MiB Nov 17 22:09:44 this is with -Os Nov 17 22:10:35 here it is. server = 2.8 MiB (.deb compression) Nov 17 22:10:37 k Nov 17 22:10:48 very much better Nov 17 22:15:49 javispedro: tried blitting snes 2x withiut emu running Nov 17 22:16:03 just to test sdl update at 523x384? Nov 17 22:16:32 aha Nov 17 22:16:39 i saw some talk about gtk pixbufs etc Nov 17 22:16:41 has anyone used gnokki with the n900 ? Nov 17 22:16:57 never saw fps for standard sdl blits Nov 17 22:17:01 I asked earlier but I've been out :) Nov 17 22:17:03 nit i Nov 17 22:29:32 so cool how you can escape out of sdl with tap upper left Nov 17 22:29:51 * pupnik tries running many things :) Nov 17 22:37:15 hey pupnik Nov 17 22:38:04 ~seen xnt14 Nov 17 22:38:06 xnt14 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 11h 37s ago, saying: 'awesome ;)'. Nov 17 22:38:20 hm Nov 17 22:38:26 dude javispedro 50% system load Nov 17 22:38:37 to get video + audio out the door Nov 17 22:38:40 jesus Nov 17 22:38:56 ah, well.. Nov 17 22:39:28 this needs to become a dialogue again Nov 17 22:39:41 and i am not sure i should be very active in it Nov 17 22:41:16 might be fun eh? Nov 17 22:41:54 :) Nov 17 22:42:25 apparently i was not nearly enough of a pain in the ass last time Nov 17 22:43:44 btw i am using a > a b > z x > x y > s also Fn for escape Nov 17 22:44:12 cursor keys win over n810 dpad, handily :) good job there, nokia Nov 17 22:44:21 they do? Nov 17 22:44:23 that's nice to hear. Nov 17 22:44:30 pupnik, definitely Nov 17 22:44:32 for me Nov 17 22:44:44 the keyboard is pretty nice once you get used to it Nov 17 22:44:51 * javispedro wonders how they'll do playing mario kart Nov 17 22:44:57 i don't like the dpad on N810... Nov 17 22:45:03 how's the battery life? Nov 17 22:45:05 the center button is too big Nov 17 22:45:15 my main annoyance is that there are two buttons under the space key - it's probably necessary, but it always throws me off when touch-typing Nov 17 22:45:23 LiraNuna, should get you through a day Nov 17 22:45:36 ouch Nov 17 22:45:45 "horrible" eh Nov 17 22:45:49 buttons under the space key? Nov 17 22:45:58 I use it quite heavily, the more so because it's new and shiny, and lasts me about a day - also, it's prerelease, so the retail units may be better Nov 17 22:46:02 * javispedro sees that only animation actors and remote textures are scaled Nov 17 22:46:08 so I'd need to create a new window from SDL... though. Nov 17 22:46:11 pupnik, two actual switches Nov 17 22:46:21 jaem, oh right, some stuff are disabled aren't they? Nov 17 22:46:26 sometimes it will feel like it's doubleclicked Nov 17 22:46:29 LiraNuna, not sure Nov 17 22:46:29 this needs more though. Nov 17 22:46:30 I've heard BT is disabled Nov 17 22:46:35 LiraNuna, not with mine Nov 17 22:46:37 (on the preview units) Nov 17 22:46:39 it's a later model Nov 17 22:46:41 I see Nov 17 22:46:53 LiraNuna, really early protos. Nov 17 22:46:53 keep in mind, though, that I use it heavily, and that it is a computer Nov 17 22:46:57 bt works here mostly Nov 17 22:47:00 GeneralAntilles, I didn't know it changed Nov 17 22:47:11 LiraNuna, most of the bloggers you've seen have gotten them in very roundabout ways. Nov 17 22:47:17 LiraNuna, and their units are REALLY early. Nov 17 22:47:20 I see Nov 17 22:47:24 was it software issue? Nov 17 22:47:32 Hardware, AFAIK Nov 17 22:47:35 ah Nov 17 22:47:39 A lot of them have 16GB, too. Nov 17 22:47:43 ah yes Nov 17 22:47:49 I recall that too Nov 17 22:47:49 But that doesn't matter now :) Nov 17 22:47:51 Mines from around September and its hardware mostly matches retail. Nov 17 22:48:04 GeneralAntilles, mine was borrowed from Nokia at Dev Days, for a project Nov 17 22:48:28 how about software? can I get a uname -a? :D Nov 17 22:48:54 LiraNuna, one sec Nov 17 22:49:03 Linux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Wed Oct 28 15:32:55 EET 2009 armv7l unknown Nov 17 22:49:17 well no need to buy a n900 for performance in sdl games Nov 17 22:49:25 .28? Nov 17 22:49:25 slower than n800 Nov 17 22:49:35 * pupnik salutes Nov 17 22:49:40 Linux Jelena 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT [date] armv7l unknown Nov 17 22:49:44 same Nov 17 22:49:48 pupnik: not surprised (compositor, pulseaudio, ...) Nov 17 22:49:56 I thought they're gonna use .31 Nov 17 22:49:56 LiraNuna, yes - at least it's fairly recent now Nov 17 22:50:26 pupnik, seems like there were some performance fixes in the pipeline. Nov 17 22:50:37 .28 has a lot of performance regressions Nov 17 22:50:38 im going to imagination forums someday with a cart full of trout Nov 17 22:50:44 ah nice Nov 17 22:50:45 .27-.29 to be exact Nov 17 22:51:09 well the kernel version is probably not going to change for the whole of the n900 lifetime. Nov 17 22:51:18 unless you consider m6 plans.. Nov 17 22:51:22 slower than N800? oO Nov 17 22:51:30 * pupnik sad Nov 17 22:51:57 flandry, i can give you patch to make uqm update fullscreen Nov 17 22:52:05 but what for Nov 17 22:52:14 slower than n800 Nov 17 22:52:16 joke? Nov 17 22:52:29 why would we want to update fullscreen? Nov 17 22:52:33 look at that 'top' output under drnoksnes guys Nov 17 22:52:42 I thought there's HW accel now Nov 17 22:52:43 LiraNuna, specifically for SDL. :) Nov 17 22:52:47 ah Nov 17 22:52:54 lira comparing now Nov 17 22:52:56 pupnik: warning, warning. remember drnoksnes on n900 uses sw scaling. Nov 17 22:52:58 so SDL does not use HW accel I take it? Nov 17 22:53:01 LiraNuna, and, like I said, I think there are performance fixes in the pipeline. Nov 17 22:53:03 no Nov 17 22:53:10 figures Nov 17 22:53:16 afaik no hardware acceleration of anything Nov 17 22:53:21 but "slower" would still be weird Nov 17 22:53:28 There's an SDL OpenGL bug on bugzilla. Nov 17 22:53:28 pupnik: use "none" scaler Nov 17 22:53:30 as 400MHz -> 600MHz is significant Nov 17 22:53:42 OpenGL doesn't help for putting 2D images Nov 17 22:53:44 especially on ARM Nov 17 22:53:56 * LiraNuna wants OpenVG Nov 17 22:54:05 well it's not much significant when the bottleneck is memory bandwidth. Nov 17 22:54:27 oh, so it's bandwidth problem, not rendering speed Nov 17 22:54:39 yeah. we're talking about 2d here. Nov 17 22:54:41 putting pixels to screen. Nov 17 22:54:46 right Nov 17 22:55:10 still, wouldn't using a OGL surface for SDL speed that up? Nov 17 22:55:10 Wasn't the N900 supposed to be in shops yesterday? Nov 17 22:55:26 no, why? Nov 17 22:55:32 I thought it's 30th Nov Nov 17 22:55:35 opengl is not designed for "putting pixels to screen" Nov 17 22:55:49 i heard 16th, but meh ok :P Nov 17 22:55:57 I might be wrong too Nov 17 22:56:08 I mean, that's what newegg says -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205178 Nov 17 22:56:10 i guess i'm thinking of a device with video RAM Nov 17 22:56:27 Still, lcuk manages to push lots more pixels to screen on n900? :) Nov 17 22:56:43 yeah, he uses xv. Nov 17 22:56:45 wikipedia says it was released on 11th november :S Nov 17 22:56:46 it *would* be faster for scaling Nov 17 22:56:54 right? Nov 17 22:56:55 k i was wrong, n900 faster - n8110 hd disabled accurate gfx Nov 17 22:57:15 I went into a vodafone shop today and asked about the release date, they tried to sell me an Xperia X1, i was like :| Nov 17 22:57:15 pupnik: accurate gfx having such an impact? which rom you're testing? Nov 17 22:57:21 And i chuckled when they said Windows CE Nov 17 22:57:24 n900 1 fps faster - ct Nov 17 22:57:29 lol Nov 17 22:57:37 lmao Nov 17 22:57:41 They told me it was just as capable Nov 17 22:57:42 xD Nov 17 22:57:46 CShadowRun, ha! were they just trying to sell you something else, or were they being stupid? Nov 17 22:57:54 ct... this reminds me of the mode5 borders bug. baaah Nov 17 22:58:03 jaem, just trying to sell me something else, they apparently arn't going to be offering the N900 on contract Nov 17 22:58:09 mode5 border bug? GBA? Nov 17 22:58:17 They also told me the N97 mini was the same as the N900 Nov 17 22:58:22 um... Nov 17 22:58:26 LiraNuna: SNES Nov 17 22:58:30 lets just have sdl HW surface be something accelerated and non composited Nov 17 22:58:30 yea... Nov 17 22:58:39 GBA inherited that 'bug' as well Nov 17 22:58:54 pls? Nov 17 22:59:06 ir i will wind up the whine siren here Nov 17 22:59:07 MODE5 - double buffered framebuffer 128x96 px 16bit Nov 17 22:59:32 LiraNuna: what you mean by GBA? snezzy or other snes emus on gba? or actual gba hw? Nov 17 22:59:47 actual GBA HW Nov 17 23:00:00 oh. Nov 17 23:00:03 never read of it :P Nov 17 23:00:11 well what does an "accelerated" HW surface mean in SDL then in N900 context Nov 17 23:00:47 in SDL means little. Nov 17 23:00:49 something where i blit 400x240 and fill screen without software scaling Nov 17 23:00:49 I mean, in current SDL on N900. Nov 17 23:00:59 and wiithout copying unnexessary data Nov 17 23:01:22 because memory bandwidth is the limiter, right Nov 17 23:01:30 and there's no VRAM Nov 17 23:01:32 that is the damn proble description Nov 17 23:01:33 no, because it does not do nothing :) Nov 17 23:01:35 exactly :) Nov 17 23:01:42 no texture cache? Nov 17 23:02:12 I thought it's OGL ES 2.0, no shader support to scale? Nov 17 23:02:22 setting SDL_HWSURFACE does nothing, that's what I mean. Nov 17 23:02:36 because ... nothing's implemented. Nov 17 23:02:58 right, but is it possible? Nov 17 23:03:01 and there's no VRAM Nov 17 23:03:24 of course you can use OGLES 2.0 Nov 17 23:03:49 but it is reading/writing to main memory unless it fits in registers Nov 17 23:03:54 seems pretty pointless actually Nov 17 23:04:00 hmm glsdl Nov 17 23:04:12 ok Nov 17 23:04:16 but remember that your color buffer will get converted into a texture and drawn again... Nov 17 23:04:22 by the compositor. Nov 17 23:04:24 i hadn't really thought of it in those terms :/ Nov 17 23:04:58 and the pandora guys basically said that the powervr sucks at updating textures. Nov 17 23:05:24 how much cache does the GPU have? Nov 17 23:05:28 (there's this new nokia texture_from_pixmaps which may be faster though) Nov 17 23:06:58 javispedro: i hate how drnok lurches ... damn... Nov 17 23:07:10 like a stumbling drunk Nov 17 23:07:12 argh Nov 17 23:07:43 how about a volume limiter as an nalternative to eq. konttori is right Nov 17 23:08:45 omething an app could request from dbzs? Nov 17 23:08:57 dunno what you mean by lurching... Nov 17 23:09:20 slow fast slow fast Nov 17 23:09:31 hm. Nov 17 23:10:14 does that happen with a fixed frameskip? Nov 17 23:13:31 either way debugging anything without hw is absolutely awful and I don't plan to do it again :) Nov 17 23:14:34 yeah i can understand that Nov 17 23:15:08 * CoreFusion- listenign to Waldo on spotify, thanks owen! Nov 17 23:15:10 i've been looking at info on the SGX 530. Still can't see any info on cache. It must have some cache, right? Nov 17 23:15:22 your mode7 is awesome javis Nov 17 23:15:34 as fast as normal in ct Nov 17 23:15:39 roughly Nov 17 23:15:50 i want to share it back some day... Nov 17 23:16:37 Flandry: why would you be interested in that? Nov 17 23:16:41 javis, i wasnt running fixed but auto Nov 17 23:16:48 fixed seemed really strange Nov 17 23:17:07 pupnik: yeah, but may explain if there's some weirdness caused by it. Nov 17 23:17:48 javispedro i think fixed 20fps could be doable Nov 17 23:17:58 pupnik: an interesting thing to test would be killing the compositor (hildon-desktop) Nov 17 23:18:09 however If you do it "as is" will cause a reboot Nov 17 23:18:11 heh good läord Nov 17 23:18:20 heh yes? Nov 17 23:18:46 and I don't know if that /etc/no_lg_reboots file still works.. Nov 17 23:19:18 music like a bar mityvah band at 3 AM Nov 17 23:20:38 * javispedro wants to test how omapfb performs... oh... I want free time. Nov 17 23:36:07 http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/microsoft-store-employees-break-out-in-dance-video/ Nov 17 23:36:11 rofl! Nov 17 23:36:19 because the size of the GPU cache is very relevant in a system that is memory bandwidth-limited? Nov 17 23:36:39 depends on how the GPU works. Nov 17 23:37:00 GPUs are always memory bandwidth-limited. Nov 17 23:37:52 not entirely true, but anyway i was referring to the entire system Nov 17 23:38:24 that's the reason the powervr is tile based.. Nov 17 23:39:26 so it can be small, hmm yeah Nov 17 23:39:57 FYI: PowerVR SGX == Intel GMA 500 Nov 17 23:40:27 you make it sound so dirty Nov 17 23:42:14 javispedro: how bout adding diagonals to drnoksnes Nov 17 23:42:26 ah, yep. Nov 17 23:42:36 so i can zse p . del for an i-way pad Nov 17 23:42:42 8-way Nov 17 23:42:57 will work perfectly Nov 17 23:43:05 :) Nov 17 23:43:14 arbeiten.gif! Nov 17 23:44:32 n900 3-row kbd will make a NICE dual-joystick setup for robotrin and smashtv Nov 17 23:44:46 cant wait to show kids how to play that Nov 17 23:48:11 oh man. Smash TV Nov 17 23:48:17 I forgot about that one Nov 17 23:48:39 so is the n900 in stores yet? Nov 17 23:48:46 i would like to buy one Nov 17 23:48:50 haven Nov 17 23:48:56 't heard back on the dev discount thing yet Nov 17 23:48:56 i'm excited about Ikari myself :) Nov 17 23:48:59 wiretapped, yeah, you haven't gotten yours yet? Nov 17 23:49:03 no! Nov 17 23:49:03 Everybody else got theirs. Nov 17 23:49:06 wtf Nov 17 23:49:09 i was a little late replying Nov 17 23:49:13 to the ddp Nov 17 23:49:14 lol Nov 17 23:49:24 Sorry. :P Nov 17 23:49:34 i'm ready to buy one retail Nov 17 23:49:36 DDP is supposedly shipping Friday or next week. Nov 17 23:49:45 and sell it if/when i get the ddp Nov 17 23:49:48 wishful thinkiiiiiing Nov 17 23:49:51 :) Nov 17 23:51:12 so does anyone know which US retailers are getting them? Nov 17 23:52:02 * wiretapped wants to walk into a store and buy a mobile device with a preinstalled xterm Nov 17 23:52:03 Rumors say Best Buy, maybe. Nov 17 23:53:45 bestbuy.com has one hit for n900 currently; the Xbox Wireless Microphone Nov 17 23:53:53 maybe i'll just get that instead Nov 17 23:53:57 wiretapped, they took it down, apparently. Nov 17 23:54:03 So who knows what's what. Nov 17 23:54:13 Supposedly retail units are coming a week or two after pre-order units. Nov 17 23:55:07 i finally got to use one for 15 minutes, at least Nov 17 23:55:11 it's awesome :) Nov 17 23:55:16 lol Nov 17 23:55:31 Nokia doesn't want any of your nerdy shit on Maemo 5. :P Nov 17 23:55:49 heh Nov 17 23:56:09 does sending audio at 24 or 48khz lower pulseaudio system load during resampling? Nov 17 23:56:20 their built-in themes are much less in need of replacing this time Nov 17 23:56:48 but somehow i expect that there will be more themes for maemo5 than there were for 4 :) Nov 17 23:56:51 Maemo 4's default was the first theme that wasn't completely horrifying. Nov 17 23:57:01 I'd love to see a Bora Plankton port to Fremantle, though. Nov 17 23:58:07 i'm a bit sad that the sidebar is gone; it was so perfectly suited for LCARS Nov 17 23:58:37 my resolv.conf stopped getting updated on my n900 when i change network etc. Nov 17 23:58:37 anyone with any ideas as to how i can get normal behaviour again? Nov 17 23:58:53 Beautific: http://mg.pov.lt/osso-xterm-buttons1.png Nov 18 00:15:31 hi zaheerm Nov 18 00:15:43 are you available atm? Nov 18 00:15:50 dmj726, hi yep Nov 18 00:15:56 connection flaky however Nov 18 00:16:12 okay Nov 18 00:17:12 I noticed that you're the maintainer of zope.interface Nov 18 00:17:16 zaheerm, btw, are you arranging your BCN flights with Nokia's travel company ? Nov 18 00:17:33 What's going on with that? Nov 18 00:17:34 VDVsx, yep Nov 18 00:17:54 dmj726, in what way? Nov 18 00:18:23 zaheerm, did you already received any reply ? Nov 18 00:18:23 I know that it's not on the tablets and the repos say it didn't build Nov 18 00:18:26 VDVsx, they sent me an email today saying they reserved x flights for me Nov 18 00:18:43 VDVsx, they want a reply from me whether they should confirm them Nov 18 00:18:48 dmj726, aah yes Nov 18 00:19:12 zaheerm, when did you send the request ? Nov 18 00:19:21 dmj726, i had an issue with the python-van package that it build deps on tracebacking Nov 18 00:19:22 It's needed to port this one app I started porting. Nov 18 00:19:24 I didn't heard from them yet, they used to be fast Nov 18 00:19:25 VDVsx, last friday Nov 18 00:20:03 zaheerm, ah ok, I sent mine in the weekend Nov 18 00:20:03 dmj726, i can provide you a deb if you want Nov 18 00:20:07 sure Nov 18 00:20:15 the deb works? Nov 18 00:20:19 dmj726, but it is armel only not x86 Nov 18 00:20:21 silly question Nov 18 00:20:24 ah Nov 18 00:20:43 dmj726, otherwise you'll have to wait for me to sort it (plan to do it this week) Nov 18 00:20:56 okay Nov 18 00:21:29 heh how do get brackets in n900 xterm? i see no symbols icon Nov 18 00:21:52 press fn sym Nov 18 00:21:59 ctrl, tab, esc, pgup, pgdn, minimize/max Nov 18 00:22:07 ahk Nov 18 00:22:21 Send me the deb in case I have time for it. Nov 18 00:22:28 nice Nov 18 00:22:28 pupnik, you only just got your n900? Nov 18 00:22:35 dmj726, email address? Nov 18 00:22:37 THough I suspect I'll have more time over thanksgiving Nov 18 00:22:43 just got it running again Nov 18 00:24:20 dmj726, sent Nov 18 00:29:11 zaheerm: thanks! Nov 18 00:54:59 Hello all. Looking for info on controlling the N900's camera. Nov 18 00:55:13 Particularly shutter speed, for example. Nov 18 00:58:43 What about it? Nov 18 00:59:24 What API can I use to control it. Nov 18 00:59:41 I have no idea, sorry :/ Nov 18 00:59:47 How I can get access to events from the "take picture" button..... Nov 18 00:59:56 Generally camera control. Nov 18 01:00:30 Have you tried searching the wiki? Nov 18 01:00:46 A bit. There's something called GDigicam Nov 18 01:00:47 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Camera_API_Usage Nov 18 01:01:16 Yes, I've seen that. Nov 18 01:01:25 I'm not saying it's not useful. Nov 18 01:01:39 Good starting point, but doesn't point me to the deeper info. Nov 18 01:01:52 GDigicam has a very similar "hello world!" to the one you just linked Nov 18 01:02:09 Both seem to studiously avoid using the "take picture" button. Nov 18 01:02:38 there is a part that talks about "Take photo", is that a different thing? Nov 18 01:02:45 Even the camera app provided doesn't provide shutter speed control. Nov 18 01:03:00 It's a hildon button on the touch screen. Nov 18 01:03:06 Labelled "Take photo" Nov 18 01:03:14 ok, you are talking about the hw button? Nov 18 01:03:19 not the physical button on the top right of the device Nov 18 01:03:30 Yah, that's the one I'm talking about. Nov 18 01:04:02 It's nitpicky, but I'm doing research into the way cameras jitter when people take pictures. Nov 18 01:04:13 Ok, then I guess you'll just have to wait until there is someone here who knows about that, I can't help you with that Nov 18 01:04:16 So I'd really like them to be doing it the way they usually do. Nov 18 01:04:22 Thanks for listening :) Nov 18 01:04:48 what kind of research? Nov 18 01:04:56 Computer vision Nov 18 01:05:02 Deblurring Nov 18 01:05:18 Interesting Nov 18 01:05:18 What lab? Nov 18 01:05:29 University of Toronto, DGP Nov 18 01:05:48 so what are you looking for exactly? Nov 18 01:06:17 See if today's cheap sensors provide enough telemetry to really help deblur shaky images. Nov 18 01:07:02 sorry for my bad english but what you mean by telemetry? Nov 18 01:07:26 Measurements of the physical position and motion of the camera while the shutter is open. Nov 18 01:07:59 Deshaking - significantly - isn't really practical due to SNR limits usually. Nov 18 01:08:06 Hmm Nov 18 01:08:38 The camera will - probably - be limited to a full readout in some smallish fraction of a second - IIRC ~1/10th of a second is typical for this class of sensor. Nov 18 01:08:48 It may have a faster 'binned' output mode. Nov 18 01:09:09 only 110th?? Nov 18 01:09:14 1/10** Nov 18 01:09:31 CoreFusion-: yes Nov 18 01:09:36 damn Nov 18 01:10:13 And here I was hoping that I wouldn't have to drag my camera with me always.. Nov 18 01:10:15 :P Nov 18 01:10:39 The performance of the camera is not bad - for a phone camera. Nov 18 01:10:59 It really, really suffers if you compare it to a 'real' camera though unfortunately. Nov 18 01:11:29 SpeedEvil: Well I'm used to a dslr.. Nov 18 01:12:05 I knew it wouldn't compare to it, but for casual photos.. Nov 18 01:12:13 it doesn't really matter that much Nov 18 01:12:18 Look on flickr for n900 images. Nov 18 01:12:29 It's quite good - for a phone camera. Nov 18 01:12:33 I have seen some of them Nov 18 01:12:38 And some are good, some are not Nov 18 01:13:20 I think that it's highly affected by the conditions Nov 18 01:13:42 yeah. Nov 18 01:13:55 Bright light is always going to show off most cameras. Nov 18 01:15:05 Well 1/10 should be slow enough to see camera shake blur, no? Nov 18 01:15:16 Sure Nov 18 01:15:17 Of course the N900 has a CMOS camera, which complicates. Nov 18 01:15:49 The camera app has an "exposure" setting, but it sort of seems to act like gain. Nov 18 01:16:15 SpeedEvil: the deblurring works better than you'd think. Nov 18 01:16:40 i did night oix in amst Nov 18 01:17:00 pupnik: care to share them? Nov 18 01:17:03 yiu can see the usual problems with nolise and purple fringing. exposure was good Nov 18 01:17:13 flickr arnim-s Nov 18 01:17:24 sorry for dupes Nov 18 01:17:39 mdaum: Are you counting real images, or are you doing it on simulated noiseless images? Nov 18 01:17:41 dear sweer lord Nov 18 01:17:53 down to 1400 cycles with dropouts Nov 18 01:18:01 here we go Nov 18 01:18:22 So far I'm only using synthetic data, because I haven't gotten real telemetry yet. Nov 18 01:18:28 I can't tell...has image quality been improving with recent firmware updates? Nov 18 01:18:37 mdaum: you've quantised the data - and added noise and blur? Nov 18 01:18:45 mdaum: and you've counted the bayer effect? Nov 18 01:19:14 Ooh. What's the bayer effect? Nov 18 01:19:57 wonder if we can ditch or temporarily kill pulseaudio Nov 18 01:19:58 Bayer is the colour filter matrix in front of the pixels Nov 18 01:20:00 RG Nov 18 01:20:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter Nov 18 01:20:01 GB Nov 18 01:20:06 organised Nov 18 01:20:12 Here's one of the recent papers, SpeedEvil: Howdy. I'm having trouble connecting to a bluetooth sensor from my laptop. But I have an N900 that it works from. Here's the hcidump of it working from the N900: http://pastebin.com/m602751d1 and here is the dump of it *not* working from my laptop: http://pastebin.com/m59a8006f Nov 18 01:20:25 Oops: Nov 18 01:20:37 It is the way black and white sensors fake being colour sensors. Nov 18 01:20:39 Here it is: http://cs.nyu.edu/~fergus/research/deblur.html Nov 18 01:20:40 Well - a way Nov 18 01:20:43 n900 runs dosbox slower than n800 Nov 18 01:20:48 nice Nov 18 01:20:59 Ah, I see the bayer effect. Nov 18 01:21:01 pupnik: that's odd Nov 18 01:21:35 Usually you solve for the blur kernel on the intensity image, and then deblur the color channels in a non-blind way using that kernel. Nov 18 01:21:37 * SpeedEvil waits till he has a better connection. Nov 18 01:22:05 Noise is an issue. Everyone models it as gaussian, which breaks down for jpeg. Nov 18 01:22:25 I'm not sure if the sensor output JPEG - it might Nov 18 01:22:34 then don't use jpeg? Nov 18 01:22:38 It can do png Nov 18 01:22:42 Some sensors natively output jpeg Nov 18 01:22:50 In at least some modes Nov 18 01:22:58 RAW FTW! Nov 18 01:23:03 the sensor shouldn't be doing jpeg...that would be silly Nov 18 01:24:01 dmj726: nevertheless, it is done sometimes. Nov 18 01:24:18 Sensor may not do jpeg, but it may be all the user has access to nonetheless. Nov 18 01:24:39 I wouldn't care about that on a crappy dumbphone vga camera, but something that has decent optics shouldn't Nov 18 01:25:05 I hope the n900 lets us write non-jpeg software Nov 18 01:25:21 It does. But it's much slower to write back the images. Nov 18 01:25:42 mdaum: about that link you put; nice deblurring indeed.. :) Nov 18 01:25:46 just because of the bigger file size? Nov 18 01:26:02 Pretty good, no? Sadly not my work. Nov 18 01:26:14 But that paper made a splash. Nov 18 01:26:30 That was my guess dmj726 Nov 18 01:27:17 still would allow for reasonable rate of capturing stills though I hope? Nov 18 01:27:19 I send them a msg if I could get that code :) I could try it out on couple of my own pics :) Nov 18 01:27:59 It's matlab code. Worth trying tho. I'd love to hear how it works for you. Nov 18 01:28:09 very nice debluring Nov 18 01:28:23 Yeah I have access to matlab at school Nov 18 01:28:31 No problem then. Nov 18 01:28:53 http://www.robotshop.us/sfe-cmos-camera-1300-1040-1.html - camera with inbuilt jpeg Nov 18 01:29:08 It's actually built onto the same chip as the sensor Nov 18 01:29:15 How cool is that? Nov 18 01:29:26 it's so that you can do jpeg video without much external heavy lifting Nov 18 01:29:32 Ten bucks. Nov 18 01:30:03 Hmm.. I could get one of those for my robot :D Nov 18 01:30:15 ah...well that sounds useful for simple robotics projects Nov 18 01:30:53 * dmj726 remembers how challenging it was to get a robot to find and calculate position relative to a green light. Nov 18 01:30:54 http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2007/p2120.htm Nov 18 01:30:55 ah yes Nov 18 01:31:25 dmj726: It's not really very. You need to read all the image out in 1/30th of a second or so - so it's not so easy Nov 18 01:31:59 haha, lucky me that our robot project was in the end very simple Nov 18 01:32:23 The camera delivers best-in-class, 30 frames per second UXGA-resolution output, for fast image capture, using an on-chip hardware M-JPEG (Motion - Joint Photographic Experts Group) encoder, or 15 fps YUV (Luminance-Bandwidth-Chrominance) output with no compression Nov 18 01:32:45 6 weeks is a short time to design and build a 150 lb/78 lb robot Nov 18 01:32:54 All in 8*8*4.5mm Nov 18 01:33:28 We should get a whole bag of those. Nov 18 01:33:31 you have a picture of it? Nov 18 01:36:50 dmj726: ? Nov 18 01:37:44 When I was in high school I started a FIRST Robotics team...they give you 6 weeks to build a bot. Nov 18 01:38:02 do you have a picture of the robot you made? Nov 18 01:38:04 let me see if I can find one Nov 18 01:38:56 http://users.metropolia.fi/~tonila/Robot_wars/ << two pictures of our robot, 1 during building it and 1 in action ;) Nov 18 01:39:45 it was remote controlled Nov 18 01:39:51 Corefusion: was it for sumo? Nov 18 01:40:02 yeah Nov 18 01:40:09 we dominated :P Nov 18 01:40:10 it was half remote/half autonomous Nov 18 01:40:12 Sweet. Nov 18 01:40:29 Where? Nov 18 01:40:35 I can look up a video of the match if you want? Nov 18 01:40:54 Oh yes. Nov 18 01:41:00 At our shcool, Metropolia University, Helsinki, Finland Nov 18 01:41:21 Finland. Nokia. Maemo. It all becomes clear. Nov 18 01:41:30 haha :P Nov 18 01:43:13 I found a video clip showing us destroying the tether port Nov 18 01:43:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0skvsMGoVXY&feature=related Nov 18 01:44:12 http://streams.evtek.fi/robo2.mpg it's quite big... Nov 18 01:44:39 url fails Nov 18 01:44:42 that thing is huge Nov 18 01:44:44 oh? Nov 18 01:44:47 let me check Nov 18 01:45:58 damn... it looks like they have removed it Nov 18 01:46:07 I should mention that our huge spring-loaded ramps had to be removed since they put us 12 pounds over weight. Nov 18 01:46:41 ...this weight issue somehow never got noticed Nov 18 01:46:50 I'm blinded by the lens cap! Nov 18 01:47:20 http://streams.metropolia.fi/old/robo2.mpg Nov 18 01:47:21 there Nov 18 01:47:26 "CoreFusion-: that thing is huge" which bot were you referring to? Nov 18 01:47:50 dmj726: the one you linked in youtube Nov 18 01:48:05 Yeah...it's pretty big Nov 18 01:48:20 We were pretty inexperienced that year Nov 18 01:48:35 ...and our tool selection was limited too. Nov 18 01:48:50 did you get the dl started for the video i linked? Nov 18 01:49:35 Our bread and butter tool was a reciprocating saw Nov 18 01:49:52 :) Nov 18 01:50:05 yeah...taking a while to download Nov 18 01:50:25 It's the school's server so they should have a decent upload Nov 18 01:50:40 150 ish KBps Nov 18 01:51:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JytKDmDjteU Nov 18 01:51:11 a match Nov 18 01:52:00 what was the weight limit on those? Nov 18 01:52:12 120 pounds Nov 18 01:52:27 like I said.. huge :P compared to ours :D Nov 18 01:52:42 I haven't seen yours yet :P Nov 18 01:53:43 would you believe that it's hard to keep a robot to 120 pounds? Nov 18 01:53:58 haha, depends what it has to do? Nov 18 01:54:28 Teams routinely drill holes everywhere possible to shave off 2-3 pounds Nov 18 01:54:58 or weld to avoid the extra weight of the nuts and bolts Nov 18 01:56:04 what kind of motors did you have to move it around? Nov 18 01:57:30 We had two motors from a small srewdriwer :D one had about 3 newtons torque... :D Nov 18 01:58:01 the drive system was a pair of 2.5" CIM motors Nov 18 01:58:42 there were other motors and the arm was pneumatic Nov 18 01:58:46 how much left? Nov 18 01:58:58 how many motors left? Nov 18 01:59:12 no... the dl Nov 18 01:59:19 one minute Nov 18 01:59:21 k Nov 18 01:59:36 We had several motors that we didn't use though. Nov 18 02:00:55 that's a big file you sent there Nov 18 02:01:23 yeah that's the video that the media-guys at school worked out of the tournament Nov 18 02:01:59 those are the size of the practice tournaments in the preseason Nov 18 02:06:16 nice Nov 18 02:06:28 thanks :) Nov 18 02:06:38 very good acceleration Nov 18 02:06:58 which was your bot? Nov 18 02:07:00 Well it was the only one to use all 4 wheels, tho everyone had the same 2 motors Nov 18 02:07:27 the red/metallic one Nov 18 02:07:31 you made the one with the curved snow plow? Nov 18 02:07:37 yeah :D Nov 18 02:07:41 It seemed to do nicely Nov 18 02:08:18 Our bot couldn't score Nov 18 02:08:45 there was 3 competition, 1 was a speedtest along a 5m track, one was a "tunign-show" as in the croud woted for the best looking and then there was that "Robot wars" Nov 18 02:08:50 However, we managed to win all but two matches in the qualification rounds Nov 18 02:08:57 gj! Nov 18 02:09:20 Turns out our robot was an amazing defense bot Nov 18 02:09:24 we aimed to win the wars from the beginning, didn't really bother with the others :P Nov 18 02:09:49 we came second in the speed test but that was just bad luck Nov 18 02:10:18 one of the matches we didn't win was a 0-0 tie since nobody on our team could score and we managed to prevent the entire other team (which could) from scoring Nov 18 02:10:23 there was 3 runs, the team that won had times: 4,8/12/16 seconds... on lucky run Nov 18 02:10:46 our times were 5,4/5,0/4,9 Nov 18 02:11:12 very consistent Nov 18 02:11:21 indeed Nov 18 02:12:41 it was fun building it! :D Nov 18 02:12:49 The strange thing was everybody else thought that our bot shouldn't have worked at all as a defense bot, since (once the ramps were removed) we were about 40 pounds lighter than everyone else Nov 18 02:13:37 40 punds makes a hell of a difference in how much force you can project forward Nov 18 02:13:41 pounds* Nov 18 02:14:16 We suspect that our lack of padded bumpers resulted in lifting the other bot up for a spit second every time we rammed them, since we were pushing bots around that had way more powerful motors. Nov 18 02:14:42 oh you didn't all have the same motors?? Nov 18 02:14:46 ...we couldn't push them continuously but could drive them back by repeatedly ramming. Nov 18 02:14:55 We used 2 motors, others had 4 Nov 18 02:15:02 we all had the same starting pieces so to speak Nov 18 02:15:34 We all had the same set of parts, but you had the option to buy 2 additional motors of that same kind Nov 18 02:16:04 how big budget did you have? Nov 18 02:16:24 $6,000 got you into one regional and the kit of parts Nov 18 02:16:31 O.o Nov 18 02:16:50 you could put up to $3,500 of additional parts on the robot Nov 18 02:17:00 we got the motors and the battery for free and then the school gave every team 20 euros :P Nov 18 02:17:16 we didn't spend nearly that much on extra stuff Nov 18 02:17:17 we did spend about 150 euros of our own money to it tho Nov 18 02:17:41 but less than 200 euros on total Nov 18 02:17:46 :D Nov 18 02:17:48 (mostly on nuts, bolts, lexan, and aluminum angle bars Nov 18 02:19:22 As much as I enjoy talking about this, I really have to get some sleep now, it's already 4 in the morning here... lol :P Nov 18 02:19:31 in retrospect, it might have been a good move to buy handcuffs to attach a meterstick to certain members' arms. Nov 18 02:19:39 good night Nov 18 02:19:46 haha, nn Nov 18 02:19:52 the robot got nicknamed "eyeball" Nov 18 02:20:08 due to the precise measuring methods Nov 18 02:26:03 I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power Nov 18 02:26:29 Damn bootlicking bot. Nov 18 02:26:53 If I told you amazon has already given me a tracking number on my n900 you would all murder me? [Y/N] Nov 18 02:27:38 Not if you hand it over to me :P Nov 18 02:28:01 Lies! Nov 18 02:28:14 infobot want a transistor? Nov 18 02:44:56 RXrenesis8: I'll be very sad at Nokia's incompetence at least :/ Nov 18 02:45:41 hmm.. want to play a game? Nov 18 02:45:49 microlith: just so long as murder's not on the menu Nov 18 02:45:57 bashian roulette: [ $(($RANDOM%10)) -eq 0 ] && rm -rf / Nov 18 02:46:15 lol Nov 18 02:46:15 v2px: that's a very dirty game Nov 18 02:46:21 that needs sudo Nov 18 02:46:24 RXrenesis8, murder is always on the menu. Nov 18 02:46:27 uh Nov 18 02:47:33 v2px: worst case you get an error Nov 18 02:47:54 i just noticed:/ Nov 18 02:48:09 rm: cannot remove root directory `/' Nov 18 02:48:47 hmm.. rm -rf /*? ;p Nov 18 02:48:55 without the '?' ofc Nov 18 02:49:13 work it out in a vmware image if you so desire to know :) Nov 18 02:50:48 updated version: [ $(($RANDOM%10)) -eq 0 ] && sudo rm -rf /* Nov 18 02:50:52 please upgrade Nov 18 02:50:56 :) Nov 18 02:51:01 * v2px hides Nov 18 02:51:12 can you port this to the iphone? Nov 18 02:51:18 hehe Nov 18 02:51:33 you know...to liberate it **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 18 03:00:03 2009