**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 21 02:59:57 2009
Nov 21 03:14:47 <pupnik_> zeesteroids isnt a bad test either
Nov 21 03:23:48 * GeneralAntilles stabs Perl to death.
Nov 21 03:23:56 <GeneralAntilles> Installing Perl dependencies makes me want to kill myself.
Nov 21 03:25:21 <mzz> heh, I don't normally feel *that* strongly about it
Nov 21 03:25:43 <GeneralAntilles> One stupid little mobi2html script is sucking my lifeblood away.
Nov 21 03:28:21 <pupnik_> i know dep tree mudbog GeneralAntilles
Nov 21 03:28:29 <pupnik_> very well
Nov 21 03:28:36 <pupnik_> days on end
Nov 21 04:40:20 <pupnik_>   PID  PPID USER     STAT   RSS %MEM %CPU COMMAND
Nov 21 04:40:20 <pupnik_>   715     1 pulse    S <   3552  1.4 25.4 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority
Nov 21 04:40:43 <pupnik_> mp3 playback
Nov 21 04:41:10 <pupnik_> i bet we can improve on that
Nov 21 04:41:37 <pupnik_> e.g. only activate eq at high volume
Nov 21 05:46:26 <ShadowJK> flash is pretty terrible, it pegs my Q9550 CPU at 100% and then it starts skipping video :)
Nov 21 05:57:18 <pupnik_> been chatting on n900, occasional surfing, and frequent mp3 playback for 10 hours
Nov 21 05:57:33 <pupnik_> been chatting on n900, occasional surfing, and frequent mp3 playback for 10 hours on one charge
Nov 21 05:57:40 <pupnik_> there
Nov 21 05:58:24 <pupnik_> just hookung up charger because i dont want to drain to warning point
Nov 21 06:04:02 <microlith> pupnik_: not bad for heavy activity
Nov 21 06:05:19 <pupnik_> not heavi - xterm leaves cpu at idle
Nov 21 06:05:30 <pupnik_> only drains really wifi and screen
Nov 21 06:06:10 <pupnik_> continuous surfing of evil sites maybe 4 hours
Nov 21 06:06:18 <pupnik_> 5.
Nov 21 06:35:21 <microlith> pupnik_: oh, that's nice
Nov 21 06:35:31 * microlith shakes a tiny fist at Nokia
Nov 21 07:16:37 <RST38h> <yawn>
Nov 21 07:16:39 <RST38h> EHLO ALL
Nov 21 07:17:00 <qwerty12> Grr, you just made me yawn. Morning, RST38h
Nov 21 08:15:55 <RST38h> The military's suicide rate among active-duty soldiers was about 20 per 100,000, nearly double the national U.S. rate of 11.1 suicides per 100,000 people, as reported by CDCP
Nov 21 08:16:57 <genewitch> anyone selling an n900?
Nov 21 08:16:59 <genewitch> :-)
Nov 21 08:18:20 <genewitch> i can pre-order one from amazon for $479 after rebates, but i don't need the unlocked one i don't think
Nov 21 08:24:44 <`0660_> :P
Nov 21 08:27:07 <RXrenesis8> unlocked will be cheaper over time
Nov 21 08:38:58 <pekuja> might be, but you still need to pay for service separately
Nov 21 08:38:58 <genewitch> RXrenesis8: yeah but i don't need one and i'm willing to spend the $580 now
Nov 21 08:39:28 <genewitch> tmobile is the only us carrier with 3g
Nov 21 08:39:30 <genewitch> for it
Nov 21 08:39:37 <genewitch> so why bother getting an unlocked one
Nov 21 08:39:53 <pekuja> to stick it to the man?
Nov 21 08:39:56 <genewitch> i live in a huge t-mobile market
Nov 21 08:39:58 <genewitch> oh
Nov 21 08:39:59 <genewitch> yeah
Nov 21 08:40:03 <genewitch> i mean for me personally.
Nov 21 08:40:04 <pekuja> ;-)
Nov 21 08:40:11 <bigbrovar> genewitch: am tempted to go with amazon too for that price, my current pre-order is with Newegg, but the $80+ extra bucks can be used for a 16gb card + bluetooth headset
Nov 21 08:40:19 <genewitch> i can see a huge draw for it over an iphone in non-3g markets
Nov 21 08:40:25 <bigbrovar> although i get to loose my standing in the line
Nov 21 08:40:45 <genewitch> i've read reports that amazon won't ship it till after christmas
Nov 21 08:40:53 <genewitch> I sorta wanted one, you know, now
Nov 21 08:41:07 <genewitch> and froogle had a bunch a couple of weeks ago, now they're all pre-orders
Nov 21 08:41:15 <pekuja> how much is a SIM-locked N900 in the US?
Nov 21 08:41:31 <genewitch> no idea, that's what i am trying to find out
Nov 21 08:41:47 <bigbrovar> genewitch: well I think they are just being over permissmistic. ( or I hope )
Nov 21 08:41:48 <pekuja> does anyone carry it?
Nov 21 08:41:50 <genewitch> I know there are people who had the locked ones for sale 2 weeks ago
Nov 21 08:42:07 <genewitch> pekuja: only online that i've found
Nov 21 08:42:44 <pekuja> I think carriers might be shying away from it because of the VoIP capabilities
Nov 21 08:42:45 <genewitch> if i buy it with my paypal card i save a percent
Nov 21 08:42:55 <genewitch> pekuja: has nothing to do with the carriers, it's the radio
Nov 21 08:43:12 <pekuja> the radio?
Nov 21 08:43:18 <genewitch> the radio is incompatible with every US carrier except T-Mobile, and that's just a fluke, T-Mobile happened to buy that spectrum for 4+ billion dollars
Nov 21 08:43:19 <genewitch> yeah
Nov 21 08:43:25 <pekuja> ah I see
Nov 21 08:43:43 <pekuja> so T-Mobile is the only carrier you could even use it on?
Nov 21 08:43:49 <genewitch> at&t
Nov 21 08:43:54 <genewitch> at 2G speeds
Nov 21 08:43:58 <genewitch> T-Mobile for 3G
Nov 21 08:44:02 <pekuja> well yeah
Nov 21 08:44:08 <genewitch> in the US that's it
Nov 21 08:44:14 <pekuja> what's the maximum for 2G?
Nov 21 08:44:23 <genewitch> under 200kbit
Nov 21 08:44:27 <pekuja> yeah
Nov 21 08:44:38 <genewitch> n900's max 3g speed is 10.1 mbit
Nov 21 08:44:51 <genewitch> at least on tmobile's service
Nov 21 08:45:06 <pekuja> so there are no SIM-locked N900's available in the US
Nov 21 08:45:15 <genewitch> pekuja: not in stores, only online
Nov 21 08:45:25 <genewitch> i've been asking for weeks, everyone looks it up and says no
Nov 21 08:45:28 <pekuja> so who has it online?
Nov 21 08:45:38 <pekuja> I'm looking at T-Mobile's site and they don't have it
Nov 21 08:45:38 <genewitch> I don't know, i can't remember the sites i saw it on
Nov 21 08:45:58 <genewitch> the sites i saw it on weren't cellular providers, they were like cellphone stores
Nov 21 08:46:07 <pekuja> ok
Nov 21 08:46:21 <pekuja> and they sell SIM-locked phones too?
Nov 21 08:48:10 <genewitch> yeah they sold blackberries and androids and whatever
Nov 21 08:48:36 <pekuja> ok
Nov 21 08:48:59 <pekuja> the market is different there I guess.
Nov 21 08:49:33 <pekuja> we have a very different market here in Finland probably because selling a phone with a contract was illegal for a long time
Nov 21 08:49:37 <genewitch> ah
Nov 21 08:49:46 <genewitch> we can do stuff without contracts here
Nov 21 08:49:51 <genewitch> you just have to pay full price
Nov 21 08:49:56 <pekuja> yeah
Nov 21 08:50:02 <pekuja> but I mean the culture is different
Nov 21 08:50:04 <genewitch> and verizon wants you to pay a deposit anyhow
Nov 21 08:50:23 <pekuja> people are more willing to pay full price
Nov 21 08:51:15 <genewitch> well in the US it's more like people with good credit can get away with cheap phones and contracts
Nov 21 08:51:15 <pekuja> and most of the contract deals aren't such where you are forced to pay for an expensive contract you don't need
Nov 21 08:51:40 <genewitch> yeah
Nov 21 08:51:53 <genewitch> the n900 is gunna cost me $70 a month to use
Nov 21 08:52:11 <genewitch> i shouldn't ever go over my minutes cause i have voip lines coming out of every orifice
Nov 21 08:52:47 <pekuja> even the iPhone you can get for around 20 euros a month with a two year contract
Nov 21 08:52:55 <genewitch> that's dirt cheap
Nov 21 08:53:02 <pekuja> yeah
Nov 21 08:53:02 <genewitch> that's also $70 here
Nov 21 08:53:14 <pekuja> you basically just pay for the phone, and the contract is cheap
Nov 21 08:53:19 <genewitch> wait, though that might be the same
Nov 21 08:53:36 <pekuja> 20 euros is around $30
Nov 21 08:53:39 <genewitch> nah it'd be 47 euros
Nov 21 08:54:09 <genewitch> do the iphones get 3g speed and unlimited data usage?
Nov 21 08:54:33 <pekuja> no, but you can upgrade your contract to get that
Nov 21 08:54:33 <genewitch> cause that's the perk for iphones in the USA. they're one of the few phones that both get unlimited bandwidth and can use more than the carriers cap you at
Nov 21 08:54:46 <genewitch> the other one is android, but that's $10 more a month
Nov 21 08:55:03 <pekuja> you can get an unlimited data plan at 384kbps for about 10 euros a month
Nov 21 08:55:23 <genewitch> that's really slow though
Nov 21 08:55:35 <genewitch> iphones here get 800-1200kbits
Nov 21 08:55:50 <pekuja> for 1M it's 20 euros a month
Nov 21 08:55:54 <aquatix> morning all
Nov 21 08:55:55 <genewitch> that's cool
Nov 21 08:56:13 <genewitch> pekuja: how much does a locked n900 cost where you are?
Nov 21 08:56:29 <pekuja> I don't think they sell locked ones here
Nov 21 08:56:38 <genewitch> well whatever, the standard n900
Nov 21 08:56:41 <genewitch> how much does it cost
Nov 21 08:56:43 <pekuja> I think even the ones from carriers are unlocked
Nov 21 08:56:46 <pekuja> it's about 600 euros
Nov 21 08:56:51 <genewitch> ouuuch
Nov 21 08:57:10 <genewitch> that's double what i am going to pay
Nov 21 08:57:13 <pekuja> yeah, that's close to $900
Nov 21 08:57:15 <aquatix> hm, here in the Netherlands it's listed in online stores starting at 530
Nov 21 08:57:25 <genewitch> 530 euros is still a lot
Nov 21 08:57:30 <aquatix> true
Nov 21 08:57:58 <aquatix> but damn, it's some package :)
Nov 21 08:57:58 <genewitch> i'm looking for less than 350 euros
Nov 21 08:57:58 <pekuja> yeah I think the cheapest deals here are about 540 euros
Nov 21 08:58:14 <genewitch> grrrrr
Nov 21 08:58:40 <genewitch> i really want one, i guess i'll have to just wait and use my n800 for EVERYTHING until i get it.
Nov 21 08:58:45 <pekuja> 480 usd on Amazon, right?
Nov 21 08:58:48 <aquatix> for less than 350 EUR, you might better look at an android phone or an n8x0 tablet
Nov 21 08:58:55 <aquatix> depending on what you want
Nov 21 08:58:58 <genewitch> pekuja: $520 with $50 mail in rebate
Nov 21 08:59:09 <pekuja> ok, so $470
Nov 21 08:59:15 <genewitch> yeah thereabouts
Nov 21 08:59:19 <pekuja> genewitch: do you have to pay taxes on top of that or is it tax-free?
Nov 21 08:59:39 <genewitch> well it depends. technically you have to pay taxes but amazon won't charge them.
Nov 21 08:59:43 <pekuja> an important thing to notice when comparing European and US prices is that European prices usually include taxes
Nov 21 09:00:10 <pekuja> the Amazon deal is still really good though
Nov 21 09:00:10 <genewitch> pekuja: in general, buying stuff online is tax free at the point of sale. you're supposed to claim the tax at the end of the year, but no one does.
Nov 21 09:00:19 <pekuja> ah, I see
Nov 21 09:01:07 <pekuja> aquatix: are N810's still available?
Nov 21 09:01:15 <genewitch> not in stores
Nov 21 09:01:17 <genewitch> on ebay, yes
Nov 21 09:01:19 <pekuja> yeah
Nov 21 09:01:24 <genewitch> for over $300, usually
Nov 21 09:01:43 <pekuja> I remember looking at them a while back... they were pretty cheap before they stopped selling them
Nov 21 09:01:44 <genewitch> i guess you can use them in Baltimore on a 4G network
Nov 21 09:01:48 <pekuja> should had bought one :-P
Nov 21 09:03:44 <genewitch> i'm not going to bother pre-ordering the phone
Nov 21 09:04:05 <genewitch> i'll just wait till it comes out and everyone has one that wants one then i'll buy one. so maybe have one in january?
Nov 21 09:04:37 <genewitch> i had my hopes up to get it next week but i guess that's a ruined dream :'(
Nov 21 09:04:46 <pekuja> :-/
Nov 21 09:04:48 <genewitch> anyhow it's late here so i am going to go to sleep
Nov 21 09:04:56 <pekuja> good night
Nov 21 09:05:40 <aquatix> genewitch: nn
Nov 21 10:44:02 <dbk> hello
Nov 21 10:46:30 <mtnman> hello
Nov 21 10:48:47 <mtnman> 
ACTION

Nov 21 10:49:54 <mtnman> anybody home?
Nov 21 10:51:19 <sijk> maybe
Nov 21 10:52:22 <mtnman> maybe not?
Nov 21 10:57:08 <mtnman> hello
Nov 21 11:05:44 <range> .oO ( hello ... echo ... )
Nov 21 11:05:59 <mtnman> elho
Nov 21 11:57:08 <lardman> hey chaps
Nov 21 11:57:12 <Stskeeps> heya
Nov 21 11:57:44 <lbt> o/ lardman
Nov 21 11:57:46 <lardman> I've got a curious problem, am trying to pass a string from my dialog constructor fn to the dialog callback handler, but it vanishes en-route
Nov 21 11:57:55 <lardman> how are things lbt ?
Nov 21 11:58:16 <lbt> busy :)
Nov 21 11:58:21 <lbt> which is good
Nov 21 11:59:07 <lardman> good good :)
Nov 21 12:00:29 <lbt> you?
Nov 21 12:00:57 <lardman> day job busy, but it's the weekend so now am debugging mbarcode busy :)
Nov 21 12:04:23 <lardman> ~curse Nautilus for still having rubbish sftp:// support
Nov 21 12:04:24 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Nautilus for still having rubbish sftp:// support !
Nov 21 12:05:39 <lardman> hmm, very odd, I've no clue why my string in vanishing
Nov 21 12:07:56 <lardman> hmm, I wonder if it's being freed somewhere else... The wonders of threading
Nov 21 12:08:36 <RST38h> do you have any reasons to use dynamic memory allocation?
Nov 21 12:08:47 <RST38h> as opposed to just declaring that data on top?
Nov 21 12:08:55 <lardman> Yeah, I can't know what the barcode will contain
Nov 21 12:09:07 <RST38h> but does it have a limited length?
Nov 21 12:09:20 <lardman> probably not
Nov 21 12:09:30 <lardman> and in fact I am using a char array that the decoder passes me
Nov 21 12:09:38 <RST38h> oh...
Nov 21 12:10:00 <lardman> also the fact that the lookups may take a while, means that the threads need to have a copy of the data, etc
Nov 21 12:10:23 <RST38h> messy,
Nov 21 12:10:26 <lardman> yeah
Nov 21 12:10:50 <lardman> nice, that's sorted it
Nov 21 12:11:34 <lardman> school boy error - had to move from a blocking dialog to a async one, and forgot where the string was being freed
Nov 21 12:12:19 * RST38h wonders if the lemmings are gonna leave tmo once they all get their n900s
Nov 21 12:12:33 * lardman has nearly given up looking there
Nov 21 12:14:58 * lardman goes back to pondering how to not have to handle every payload type
Nov 21 12:19:36 <lardman> has anyone else had troubles with .desktop files from Fremantle not working on Diablo?
Nov 21 12:19:46 <lardman> or service files for that matter?
Nov 21 12:21:05 * RST38h has not tried yet
Nov 21 12:21:13 <RST38h> But I am using the same files without changes
Nov 21 12:22:29 <lardman> hmm, perhaps it's something in the Fremantle one too then, not checked that yet
Nov 21 12:22:41 <lardman> do you know about svn?
Nov 21 12:22:49 <RST38h> a bit, not a lot
Nov 21 12:23:00 <lardman> svn: Commit failed (details follow):
Nov 21 12:23:00 <lardman> svn: File or directory 'debian/changelog' is out of date; try updating
Nov 21 12:23:00 <lardman> svn: The version resource does not correspond to the resource within the transaction.  Either the requested version resource is out of date (needs to be updated), or the requested version resource is newer than the transaction root (restart the commit).
Nov 21 12:23:14 <lardman> I've updated the file from outside the tree, bad I know
Nov 21 12:23:20 <lardman> can I force it to update?
Nov 21 12:23:23 <lardman> commit even
Nov 21 12:23:41 <RST38h> ah I know this one
Nov 21 12:24:28 <RST38h> the "right" way to fix this is to update your tree fro the repository
Nov 21 12:24:39 <lardman> yeah, but that's out of date now
Nov 21 12:24:45 <RST38h> so that whatever changes were made to that file by someone else will be merged into your local copy
Nov 21 12:24:48 <RST38h> then you can commit
Nov 21 12:25:03 <RST38h> ok, then do this
Nov 21 12:25:06 <lardman> I made the changes from a different checkout actually
Nov 21 12:25:18 <RST38h> Move your file away. Update. Copy your file back. Commit.
Nov 21 12:25:30 <lardman> damn
Nov 21 12:25:32 <lardman> ah well
Nov 21 12:25:45 <RST38h> that will fix it
Nov 21 12:26:03 <RST38h> if you are absolutely sure you are not gonna keep any changes fro the svn copy
Nov 21 12:27:50 <lardman> hmm, actually if you do svn update it flags the file and you can select "mf" to choose your file as the correct one
Nov 21 12:28:02 <lardman> thanks for the pointer
Nov 21 12:28:04 <lardman> anyway fixed now, I hope ;)
Nov 21 12:28:35 <lardman> strange how svn update doesn't overwrite new changes to files
Nov 21 12:28:54 <lardman> my misunderstanding of how it works
Nov 21 12:29:26 <RST38h> hmm...a chemist reports that the famous Anarchist's Cookbook is full of wrong recipes =)
Nov 21 12:30:00 <lardman> lol
Nov 21 12:30:12 <RST38h> Almost like someone saving himself time tracking all the idiots down, so that he could just regularly go over hospital records in search of characteristic injuries =)
Nov 21 12:31:59 <lardman> :)
Nov 21 12:32:36 <lardman> In .desktop files, what does Version refer to? I seem to remember seeing this on the ml in a thread about whether it's the app version or the file format
Nov 21 12:32:59 <RST38h> that is for control files I think. Verifying
Nov 21 12:33:21 <RST38h> Ok, in .desktop file, that is YOUR app version
Nov 21 12:33:33 <lardman> really?
Nov 21 12:33:35 <lardman> oh ok
Nov 21 12:33:39 <RST38h> In control file, there is this: Standards-Version: 3.6.1
Nov 21 12:33:43 <lardman> perhaps that's why it doesn't work
Nov 21 12:33:45 <RST38h> THAT is the control file version
Nov 21 12:33:46 <lardman> ok cool
Nov 21 12:38:37 <mord> been comparing diablo and 0.16 and for some reason fennec simply flies on 0.16
Nov 21 12:38:37 <mord> :)
Nov 21 12:38:41 <mord> (n810)
Nov 21 12:39:06 <mord> erm. wrong channel, this. so sorry
Nov 21 13:00:53 <VDVsx> damn, is -devel still down or I broke something ? :)
Nov 21 13:01:42 <KMFDM> VDVsx, i've been unable to connect to -devel
Nov 21 13:01:47 <KMFDM> for 3 weeks with my phone
Nov 21 13:02:07 <KMFDM> strangely my pc can load the file my phone claims it can't load perfectly fine
Nov 21 13:02:20 <RST38h> wrong app manager config?
Nov 21 13:02:47 <KMFDM> RST38h, the config is correct. I checked it several times and also tried completely re-entering it
Nov 21 13:02:55 <KMFDM> testing also doesn't work
Nov 21 13:02:56 <VDVsx> RST38h, humm, I got this: W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release  No Hash entry in Release file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_Release
Nov 21 13:03:07 <VDVsx> KMFDM, -testing works here
Nov 21 13:03:18 <VDVsx> -extras too
Nov 21 13:03:28 <KMFDM> -extras works for me
Nov 21 13:03:31 <RST38h> ah
Nov 21 13:03:33 <KMFDM> but -devel and -testing don't
Nov 21 13:03:53 <RST38h> Somebody explained why -devel gets this problem a whle ago
Nov 21 13:04:01 <RST38h> Stskeeps, I think
Nov 21 13:04:33 <Stskeeps> no, jeremiah?
Nov 21 13:04:41 <RST38h> maybe....
Nov 21 13:04:51 <RST38h> it is a problem with the repository indeed
Nov 21 13:05:50 <VDVsx> bahh
Nov 21 13:07:31 <VDVsx> wow 75p from the Maemo long weekend .. and counting :)
Nov 21 13:07:36 <VDVsx> mini-summit :D
Nov 21 13:08:47 <lcuk> finnish winter holiday
Nov 21 13:09:14 <lcuk> mornin VDVsx
Nov 21 13:09:49 <VDVsx> lcuk, hhihi
Nov 21 13:09:54 <VDVsx> lcuk, morning lcuk
Nov 21 13:21:36 <lbt> Don't bother handling malloc returns null, just quit ... http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/19998
Nov 21 14:47:14 <pupnik> N900 battery is fine for all-day use if you dont keep a cpu hog running
Nov 21 14:47:20 <pupnik> imo
Nov 21 14:48:13 <javispedro> pupnik: did you try a stress test with 100% cpu usage?
Nov 21 14:49:33 <pupnik> nope
Nov 21 14:49:36 <sgbirch> Jaffa: I have always been confused by Forum Nokia, not to mention maemo version numbers/names
Nov 21 14:50:03 <sgbirch> Jaffa: But I do so love Nokia's Linux products
Nov 21 14:50:47 <pupnik> javispedro: now that i ave external charger i may keep a spare battery with me if i am gone all day
Nov 21 14:50:59 <javispedro> yeah... sigh.
Nov 21 14:51:27 <pupnik> fastest discharge i had was about 5 hours
Nov 21 14:51:31 <javispedro> I will try some powersaving settings ... like maxxing cpufreq at 330 Mhz or the like
Nov 21 14:52:13 <pupnik> you might be able to get it down to three :)
Nov 21 14:52:20 <javispedro> s/maxxing/capping
Nov 21 14:52:25 <sgbirch> pupnik: While I wait for th n900 I am using an HP6509 (wm5),  5 hours is a *dream* on that
Nov 21 14:52:56 <javispedro> 3 hours is what I was told.
Nov 21 14:52:57 <pupnik> oh just wlan no cell sgbirch
Nov 21 14:53:02 <javispedro> with full stress testing
Nov 21 14:53:09 <pupnik> just screen wlan and cpu
Nov 21 14:53:50 <sgbirch> javispedro: 3 hours with everything turned on?
Nov 21 14:53:55 <pupnik> meh i am interested in my own use profile.  and N900 handles xterm/screen at idle speed
Nov 21 14:54:07 <javispedro> sgbirch: or at least 100% cpu usage
Nov 21 14:54:36 <pupnik> three sounds right
Nov 21 14:54:56 <pupnik> those 10 hours i had a paused sdl game using no cpu
Nov 21 14:55:00 <sgbirch> javispedro: that isnt bad .. 3 with the processor spinning
Nov 21 14:55:00 <javispedro> and thus the reason I'll probably underclock it.
Nov 21 14:55:12 <javispedro> pupnik: sdl apps paused tick a 10Hz clock
Nov 21 14:55:16 <javispedro> which drains battery
Nov 21 14:55:21 <pupnik> ah
Nov 21 14:55:21 <sgbirch> javispedro: I have been very impressed with my n810, it sips power
Nov 21 14:55:34 <javispedro> 10Hz or 10KHz, I don't remember ;P
Nov 21 14:56:18 <pupnik> javispedro - it is real cool that pause feature - know how it is done?
Nov 21 14:56:30 <pupnik> hopefully 10 hz
Nov 21 14:56:47 <pupnik> uqm source should  have it
Nov 21 14:57:46 <javispedro> pupnik: no, sdl has no pause feature .. but SDL_WaitEvent does tick
Nov 21 14:58:00 <javispedro> so the only way to pause sanely is block on d-bus or the like
Nov 21 14:58:46 <pupnik> i believe unix has SIGSUSP ?
Nov 21 14:59:01 <javispedro> yeah
Nov 21 14:59:09 <javispedro> but it's hard to SIGCONT with a keypress then
Nov 21 14:59:18 <javispedro> unless you have a daemon doing that
Nov 21 14:59:29 <javispedro> iirc it was requested sometime to send SIGSUSP to processes by system
Nov 21 14:59:35 <javispedro> when idle.
Nov 21 14:59:54 <pupnik> well the windowmanager process stll runs
Nov 21 15:00:26 <pupnik> that should be susp and cont ing, no?
Nov 21 15:00:57 <javispedro> it could do that, as I was saying, it was requested
Nov 21 15:01:07 <pupnik> cool
Nov 21 15:01:10 <javispedro> but I don't even remember the bug # ...
Nov 21 15:01:37 <pupnik> however uqm does it is good  enuf
Nov 21 15:02:29 <sgbirch> The wait for the n900 is killing me ..
Nov 21 15:03:07 <javispedro> so now someone just affirmed Mario Kart runs at 40fps in the G1
Nov 21 15:03:21 <javispedro> even though tit sucks (less than 10fps) on all youtube videos
Nov 21 15:03:25 <lcuk> what does it run at on the n900
Nov 21 15:03:38 <javispedro> probably just a bit better than n810 -- 20fps or the like
Nov 21 15:03:58 * javispedro sighs
Nov 21 15:05:02 <javispedro> I wonder where could I find a G1 owner around there ...
Nov 21 15:06:32 <javispedro> s/there/here
Nov 21 15:06:54 <pupnik> what is g1? android?
Nov 21 15:07:13 <pupnik> n900? 20 maybe
Nov 21 15:08:00 <javispedro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQkAKKRUFbg
Nov 21 15:08:05 <javispedro> i don't what's the frameskip on that
Nov 21 15:08:21 <javispedro> but my n810 plays it a bit faster than that _without_ frameskip
Nov 21 15:08:21 <pupnik> the problems with n900 are a hardware fault (speaker response) fixed in software eq
Nov 21 15:08:39 <pupnik> whick takes 15-25 percent cpu
Nov 21 15:09:03 <javispedro> so, horrible.
Nov 21 15:09:09 <pupnik> and no scaled blits costing another 15@percent or more
Nov 21 15:09:11 <javispedro> pupnik: are you sure it's eq and not resampling?
Nov 21 15:09:20 <pupnik> both together
Nov 21 15:09:37 <javispedro> make drnok output at 44100 or 48000 and measure
Nov 21 15:09:57 <pupnik> maybe we could temp disable expensive pulseaudio and cheaply stream to dac
Nov 21 15:10:09 <javispedro> or go back to using dsp for audio
Nov 21 15:10:10 <pupnik> or just the app bypass it
Nov 21 15:10:13 <javispedro> i don't know who decided against that...
Nov 21 15:10:34 <javispedro> bypassing pulseaudio -- here by dragons
Nov 21 15:10:34 <pupnik> we just must limit the volume
Nov 21 15:10:38 <javispedro> s/by/be
Nov 21 15:10:38 <pupnik> heh
Nov 21 15:10:50 <javispedro> probably uses the ALSA device 100% of the time
Nov 21 15:11:16 <javispedro> not to mention who knows what's the ALSA interface this time.
Nov 21 15:11:32 <javispedro> but iirc I read it is more sane than n810 since they're not using dsp anymore
Nov 21 15:11:56 <pupnik> k
Nov 21 15:12:26 <pupnik> internal rate IS 48k
Nov 21 15:12:38 <pupnik> pulse
Nov 21 15:12:53 <pupnik> see /etc/pulse*
Nov 21 15:13:20 <javispedro> idonthaveann900 ;)
Nov 21 15:13:29 <javispedro> well, and how's cpu usage at 48kHz?
Nov 21 15:15:36 <felipec> I'm not sure if it makes sens to bypass pulseaudio
Nov 21 15:21:47 <pupnik> felipec: we have an audio subsystem consuming 15-25 percent cpu
Nov 21 15:22:27 <felipec> pupnik: when you use speakers
Nov 21 15:22:35 <pupnik> i dont mind becoming unpopular to make this an issue
Nov 21 15:22:40 <pupnik> yes
Nov 21 15:22:40 <SpeedEvil> pulseaudio is insanity.
Nov 21 15:22:46 <SpeedEvil> At least resamplingwise.
Nov 21 15:22:51 <felipec> pupnik: which are crappy and will fry if you use then 100% all the time
Nov 21 15:23:13 <pupnik> so allow high perf apps to play at low volume
Nov 21 15:23:22 <pupnik> without bottleneck
Nov 21 15:23:36 <SpeedEvil> A patch that adjusts the DAC frequency if there is no sound playing would be good.
Nov 21 15:23:37 <pupnik> two modes
Nov 21 15:23:44 <pupnik> no
Nov 21 15:24:01 <SpeedEvil> So if there isn't sound playing, and a sound source starts at 48KHz - it clocks the DAC to 48KHz
Nov 21 15:24:05 <javispedro> no, I can easily make the emu render at 48kHz and seems that doesn't cause cpu usage to drop
Nov 21 15:24:21 <felipec> pupnik: you can do that by issuing the ALSA ioctls I guess
Nov 21 15:24:30 <pupnik> one mode where app generates 48khz and disablesm resampling and eq
Nov 21 15:24:33 <SpeedEvil> Sample format conversion? though that should not sanely do that.
Nov 21 15:25:25 <felipec> pupnik: if you send 48khz there's no resampling
Nov 21 15:25:31 <javispedro> it's more easy for the emu to do conversion -- think it knows about the spc700 it is emulating.
Nov 21 15:25:40 <felipec> and you can manually disable the equalizer I think
Nov 21 15:25:42 <javispedro> and not everything is sampled sound at that level.
Nov 21 15:26:10 <pupnik> felipec: that would be the app level solution!
Nov 21 15:26:40 <javispedro> if you can manually disable eq, wouldn't speakers fry as said?
Nov 21 15:27:04 <SpeedEvil> Generally not, you'll worst-case get distortion.
Nov 21 15:27:07 <pupnik> lower volume
Nov 21 15:27:14 <felipec> javispedro: that's not the equalizer, that's x-prot, different filter
Nov 21 15:27:25 <Flandry> "generally not"
Nov 21 15:27:56 <pupnik> limit emulator voloume to 50 percent for all i care :)
Nov 21 15:28:02 <javispedro> so it's x-prot the one pupnik finds using CPU -- not eq
Nov 21 15:28:11 <javispedro> cause why would eq be enabled then
Nov 21 15:28:35 <pupnik> ahh a googlable term surfaces! :)
Nov 21 15:28:36 <toggles_w> hmm... according to this, http://www.logicbuy.com/deals/newegg-black-friday-deals-and-coupons/16737.aspx that would make the n900 $504-ish, plus $50 rebated, down to $450?
Nov 21 15:29:02 <pupnik> wow
Nov 21 15:29:20 <SpeedEvil> toggles_w: Interesting.
Nov 21 15:29:30 <SpeedEvil> toggles_w: that's ~ what I paid in the UK after all the rebates
Nov 21 15:29:36 <toggles_w> i wonder if the 10% off will negate the rebate though...
Nov 21 15:29:41 <SpeedEvil> (though they have not as of yet taken any payment)
Nov 21 15:30:00 <toggles_w> still, if amazon hasn't shipped mine, i might cancel and try the newegg deal ;-)
Nov 21 15:30:35 <SpeedEvil> Order both, ebay one.
Nov 21 15:30:40 <toggles_w> LOL
Nov 21 15:30:40 <felipec> pupnik: how big are the buffers you are pushing to pulse
Nov 21 15:31:02 <_berto_> guys, has anyone tried to change numeric values in the about:config window in the n900 ?
Nov 21 15:32:07 <pupnik> ask javispedro felipec
Nov 21 15:32:20 <javispedro> felipec: small
Nov 21 15:33:29 <javispedro> around 512 2*16 bit samples.
Nov 21 15:33:30 <felipec> javispedro: well, the bigger the buffers, the better the performance
Nov 21 15:33:46 <javispedro> that was not the case with esd -- empirically tested.
Nov 21 15:34:03 <javispedro> probably because of dsp
Nov 21 15:34:15 <javispedro> which limited buffer size to something around PAGE_SIZE
Nov 21 15:34:57 <javispedro> pupnik: so try bigger buffer sizes (arg "-b 512", "-b 1024", etc.)
Nov 21 15:35:04 <VDVsx> does anyone knows what is the default lib used in maemo5 to parse conf files (ini-like) ?
Nov 21 15:35:19 <javispedro> VDVsx: glib has some of that stuff
Nov 21 15:35:43 <pupnik> and my app will pad-out samples to 48k
Nov 21 15:35:50 <javispedro> VDVsx: GKeyFile
Nov 21 15:36:13 <felipec> javispedro: the problem is the locking required between pulse threads and pushing buffers around
Nov 21 15:36:41 <VDVsx> javispedro, do you know if it preserves the comments in the files ?
Nov 21 15:37:00 <javispedro> VDVsx: no, I never tried it.. :P
Nov 21 15:37:01 <felipec> javispedro: last time I tried 128k worked fine
Nov 21 15:37:18 <_berto_> can anyone try to change any numeric value in about:config ?
Nov 21 15:37:56 <javispedro> pupnik: you could make a plot with buffer size vs pa cpu usage ;)
Nov 21 15:38:52 <VDVsx> javispedro, yes it preserves, thanks ;)
Nov 21 15:39:01 <pupnik> i cant fix these problems
Nov 21 15:39:07 <pupnik> i tried
Nov 21 15:39:08 <javispedro> note though that higher buffer sizes will distort -- that's something I'm considering to workaround
Nov 21 15:39:38 <VDVsx> _berto_, in the browser ?
Nov 21 15:39:52 <_berto_> VDVsx: yes
Nov 21 15:39:58 <_berto_> VDVsx: I can't change any numeric setting
Nov 21 15:40:07 <VDVsx> _berto_, let me try here
Nov 21 15:40:12 <_berto_> VDVsx: thanks
Nov 21 15:40:15 <pupnik> javispedro: that distortion is a bug
Nov 21 15:40:26 <javispedro> not a bug, but rather a // TODO ;)
Nov 21 15:40:46 <pupnik> right
Nov 21 15:40:56 <pupnik> or wontfix
Nov 21 15:40:58 <javispedro> but the CPU usage measures should be good.
Nov 21 15:41:29 <javispedro> if buffer size does help much an easy workaround is to just buffer in my app after rendering
Nov 21 15:41:52 <javispedro> instead of sending every rendered buffer to pa
Nov 21 15:41:59 <VDVsx> _berto_, confirmed (42-11)
Nov 21 15:42:13 <_berto_> VDVsx: you mean you can't either? :)
Nov 21 15:42:15 <pupnik> ahh
Nov 21 15:42:16 <VDVsx> the dialog does nothing
Nov 21 15:42:18 <_berto_> okay
Nov 21 15:42:28 <_berto_> the funny thing is that i haven't seen anything in bugzilla
Nov 21 15:42:41 <_berto_> but there are other bugs about the browser config
Nov 21 15:42:48 <VDVsx> but I can change the booleans at least
Nov 21 15:42:51 <_berto_> it can't be that no one noticed this before
Nov 21 15:42:54 <_berto_> yes, and strings too
Nov 21 15:43:14 <_berto_> i'll report it anyway
Nov 21 15:43:47 <VDVsx> _berto_, yeah the dialog for ints is different
Nov 21 15:43:50 <_berto_> yes
Nov 21 15:48:45 <_berto_> VDVsx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6270
Nov 21 15:48:53 <povbot> Bug 6270: Can't modify numeric settings in about:config
Nov 21 15:49:41 <_berto_> ok, reported, I'm leaving now
Nov 21 15:49:42 <_berto_> see you
Nov 21 15:49:45 <VDVsx> bye
Nov 21 16:03:45 <lopz> hi ;]
Nov 21 16:08:56 <RST38h> 'The Apple store called and informed me that due to the computer having been used in a house where there was smoking, [the warranty has been voided] and they refuse to work on the machine "due to health risks of second hand smoke,"' wrote one customer
Nov 21 16:09:04 <RST38h> Cute
Nov 21 16:09:19 <javispedro> oh, hi RST38h
Nov 21 16:09:44 <pekuja> second hand smoke from a laptop that has been used in a smoking household?
Nov 21 16:10:42 <mikhas> well, PCs from a smokers smell terrible
Nov 21 16:10:54 <luke-jr> RST38h: sounds about right, at least as far as voiding the warranty
Nov 21 16:11:19 <luke-jr> presumably they apply it equally, and don't honour warrantys if cat hairs are found eitehr
Nov 21 16:11:20 <pekuja> smell is one thing, but second hand smoke?
Nov 21 16:11:44 <mikhas> that one I dont know, sounds wrong to me.
Nov 21 16:11:53 <mikhas> there are all kind of unhealthy things in a PC
Nov 21 16:12:58 <luke-jr> yeah, but smoke/cat hair can damage it
Nov 21 16:17:53 <DocScrutinizer> actually I never seen a PC damaged by smoke
Nov 21 16:17:59 <RST38h> luke: or just reserve the right to refuse servicing any computer with explanation "your pc is disgusting"
Nov 21 16:18:01 <javispedro> there are horror stories all around the www about pcs literally "filled" with smoke or greas
Nov 21 16:18:16 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: XD
Nov 21 16:18:17 <RST38h> yea, they look pretty bad on the inside, cheaper to throw away
Nov 21 16:18:18 <javispedro> I can believe some conscious techie  refuse working on it.
Nov 21 16:21:59 <mikhas> so the solution is to require the customer to clean up the computer, voiding the warranty while doing so =)
Nov 21 16:22:16 * RST38h figures what he is gonna do to "Droid and Android gaming irony" thread participants
Nov 21 16:22:34 <javispedro> please kill me :)
Nov 21 16:23:30 <RST38h> javis: So far it looks like Kaa talking to Bandar-logs
Nov 21 16:24:20 <Flandry> i haven't visited that one since yesterday
Nov 21 16:24:30 <Flandry> i thought i was on Engadget
Nov 21 16:24:45 <javispedro> I still think the "older" one was worse.
Nov 21 16:25:00 <javispedro> the one where someone registered and shown us he had "13 emulators" avail for N900.
Nov 21 16:25:12 <javispedro> that's even before rst pushed his apps to -stable
Nov 21 16:25:22 <alterego> Is there somethig wrong with extras devel?
Nov 21 16:25:45 <RST38h> Ah, Wiki is sometimes SO true: "Their foolish and chattering ways are illustrated by their slogan: We are great. We are free. We are wonderful. We are the most wonderful people in all the jungle! We all say so, and so it must be true.. Bandar-log communicate almost entirely through the repetition of other animals' speech."
Nov 21 16:25:51 <Flandry> it's hosted on maemo servers...
Nov 21 16:29:20 <javispedro> though the whole Java argument is useless on that thread, since from what I've understood by quickly analyizing some droid emus only sound has to go through Java.
Nov 21 16:29:36 <javispedro> (by quickly I mean may be inexact)
Nov 21 16:29:40 <RST38h> javis: But of course. Only it does not matter to them
Nov 21 16:34:20 <thux> many of here wonders should they buy iphone 3 g s or n900, which one has better hardware? price seems to be close
Nov 21 16:34:36 <RST38h> 3gs of course
Nov 21 16:34:41 <javispedro> yes.
Nov 21 16:35:05 <alterego> Yeah, iPhone, why even ask.
Nov 21 16:35:06 <blimey3k> 3GS if you want a phone phone
Nov 21 16:35:26 * alterego chuckles
Nov 21 16:35:29 * javispedro sighs
Nov 21 16:35:36 <thux> ok good to know, i don't know specs of either one
Nov 21 16:35:44 <alterego> Why don't you go to #iphone and ask their opinion
Nov 21 16:36:15 <thux> is here #iphone channel?
Nov 21 16:36:19 <RST38h> of course
Nov 21 16:36:35 * andre__ takes a look under his bed if he still has those huge blinking irony markers
Nov 21 16:36:36 <RST38h> Just not on this server I guess
Nov 21 16:36:48 <thux> seems so
Nov 21 16:36:48 <javispedro> there's even a haskell-iphone channel :P
Nov 21 16:36:56 <alterego> Heh
Nov 21 16:37:12 <RST38h> andre: is there a rocket engine too?
Nov 21 16:37:13 <thux> #iphone ##iphone Forwarding to another channel
Nov 21 16:37:29 <andre__> RST38h, I can't talk about this here in public, sorry
Nov 21 16:37:30 <mikhas> clever guys, a hidden channel!
Nov 21 16:38:09 <RST38h> mikhas: hidden stuff must be mighty cool!
Nov 21 16:38:22 <javispedro> just look at the topic
Nov 21 16:38:23 <javispedro> :)
Nov 21 16:38:40 <mikhas> =)
Nov 21 16:38:50 <RST38h> "Instead of replacing the St. Louis Zoo's deceased polar bears with live ones, zoo officials put robots up in their place."
Nov 21 16:39:32 <sp3000> as long as they support mauling, s'ok
Nov 21 16:39:42 <RST38h> sp3000: the article says not YET.
Nov 21 16:39:57 <sp3000> awww. feature regression.
Nov 21 16:40:24 <javispedro> is it 2020 already? the world went mad and I didn't notice because I've gone mad already?
Nov 21 16:40:27 <RST38h> Well, maybe the eyes light up, just like in the movies....
Nov 21 16:40:34 <javispedro> and they shoot lasers
Nov 21 16:40:59 <RST38h> javis: Satan got hired by The Onion, and he is working on their news.
Nov 21 16:41:05 <sp3000> that's still just a workaround
Nov 21 16:41:58 <RST38h> javis: No other news outlet hired him, all said he was too hmm... different
Nov 21 16:42:06 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: pictures - http://www.theoland.com/media/bear_sculptures/GM_Bears/Squid_500sq.jpg
Nov 21 16:42:25 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: Oh! An idol!
Nov 21 16:42:34 * lardman|home wonders where the other XChat client is located
Nov 21 16:42:47 <lardman> ah, here it is
Nov 21 16:43:12 <lbt> SpeedEvil: send it to Bruce Schneier
Nov 21 16:44:03 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: http://community.livejournal.com/detskiy_dvor/ (all commentaries are in Russian, but you really do not need 'em)
Nov 21 16:44:25 <javispedro> blackra1n, pwnage, redsn0w, ultrasn0w -- are they hacking a phone or a night club?
Nov 21 16:44:28 <thux> seems that iphone only got 256mb ram, ain't n900 have more?
Nov 21 16:44:40 <Stskeeps> 256mb ram, 768mb swap
Nov 21 16:44:45 <Flandry> you got to be kidding. Satan has been on Fox news for years
Nov 21 16:45:03 <RST38h> Flandry: too dull for the Satan. I suspect that was Jesus.
Nov 21 16:45:38 <Flandry> I'd like to think He'd do a better job, but maybe that's just me :P
Nov 21 16:45:44 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: Actually, the best-of is here: http://community.livejournal.com/practical_chaos/923.html (it will save you some browsing)
Nov 21 16:46:31 <RST38h> Flandry: The key point is that whatever news Satan puts into print, come into reality. That is why Him working for The Onion is so scary =)
Nov 21 16:46:43 <thux> arm cortex a8 600mhz not bad what n900 got?
Nov 21 16:46:50 <javispedro> same.
Nov 21 16:46:55 <Flandry> ah, i saw that Twilgiht Zone episode too
Nov 21 16:47:23 <suihkulokki>    /last http
Nov 21 16:47:29 <suihkulokki> garr
Nov 21 16:48:23 <javispedro> I can't watch ONN videos!
Nov 21 16:48:39 <javispedro> level 1 emergency -- time to mkfs /
Nov 21 16:49:28 <RST38h> Flandry: I think it was based either one someone's short story *or* on a retro urban legend
Nov 21 16:49:55 <SpeedEvil> http://www.theonion.com/content/video/anonymous_philanthropist_donates
Nov 21 16:50:12 <RST38h> yeeek
Nov 21 16:50:39 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: that's exactly the video I'm trying to watch!!
Nov 21 16:50:43 <javispedro> and I can't! I can't!
Nov 21 16:50:48 <javispedro> damn Flash.
Nov 21 16:50:57 * javispedro launches all the browsers on his system
Nov 21 16:51:21 <Flandry> sure, but Twilght Zone is the cannonical source, even if retrospectively
Nov 21 16:51:34 <RST38h> yea, guess so
Nov 21 16:51:51 * Flandry thinks it should be, anyway
Nov 21 17:10:29 <lardman> hmm, is Garage working for you chaps?
Nov 21 17:11:07 <RST38h> worked a few hours ago
Nov 21 17:11:18 <lardman> worked 10min ago, but not now
Nov 21 17:11:21 <RST38h> pupnik spoiled all the fun =(
Nov 21 17:11:28 <RST38h> too serious
Nov 21 17:12:16 <lardman> ah, just veeeerrrryyyy slow
Nov 21 17:13:45 <RST38h> Bug #5300 got into internal bugzilla. Sweet
Nov 21 17:13:46 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300 Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager
Nov 21 17:15:30 <javispedro> RST38h: actually, the fun is starting for me -- since the a320 is a console I tried.
Nov 21 17:15:51 <javispedro> it was on par with N810 -- and he's saying it's full speed.
Nov 21 17:16:04 <RST38h> javis: he does not understand what he is saying
Nov 21 17:16:23 <RST38h> not worth arguing there, although trolling poor lemming all the way to the cliff may be fun
Nov 21 17:17:17 <lardman> what's the a320?
Nov 21 17:17:25 <lardman> large aircraft to me
Nov 21 17:17:34 <javispedro> arm11, 500ish Mhz iirc.
Nov 21 17:17:42 <lardman> pda?
Nov 21 17:17:45 <javispedro> yeah
Nov 21 17:17:50 <javispedro> console
Nov 21 17:18:06 <javispedro> well I was wrong
Nov 21 17:18:08 <lardman> Dingoo
Nov 21 17:18:11 <javispedro> not arm11
Nov 21 17:18:12 <RST38h> A Chinese console
Nov 21 17:18:14 <javispedro> but MIPS
Nov 21 17:18:25 <RST38h> Anything with MIPS will suck by definition
Nov 21 17:18:32 <lardman> small screen too
Nov 21 17:18:36 <RST38h> (I can explain why, but it is somewhat involved)
Nov 21 17:18:59 <lardman> go on :)
Nov 21 17:19:39 <RST38h> Well, MIPS instruction set has been made by academics, so even although it is RISC, it is incredibly inefficient
Nov 21 17:19:52 <RST38h> For example, VGBA binary size hits 1MB on MIPS
Nov 21 17:19:58 <lardman> they made the inefficient microcode?
Nov 21 17:20:06 <RST38h> Also, the stack frames are huge
Nov 21 17:20:13 <lardman> or poor design/instruction choice?
Nov 21 17:20:17 <RST38h> No, they designed inefficient instruction set
Nov 21 17:20:21 <lardman> ah ok
Nov 21 17:20:29 <RST38h> That does not well express what people want to do
Nov 21 17:20:53 <RST38h> It is a freaking university project, not a production design
Nov 21 17:21:04 <lardman> :)
Nov 21 17:21:23 <RST38h> So, on expensive workstations, these problems are offset by huge caches and fast memory
Nov 21 17:22:07 <RST38h> But once you cut down the caches and use normal consumer grade 133MHz SDRAM (or mDDR), the performance goes straight to hell
Nov 21 17:22:11 <lardman> so why was it adopted then?
Nov 21 17:22:33 <RST38h> The design is free, it is cheap to produce, so lots of Chinese make and use it
Nov 21 17:23:01 <RST38h> And for low performance uses, it works well enough. I have one of those Chinese systems on my desk
Nov 21 17:23:14 <lardman> ok
Nov 21 17:23:23 <RST38h> ICNexus, MIPS chip, runs Linux, starts X11/XFCE on its little 640x460 screen
Nov 21 17:23:50 <RST38h> Runs fine, has even gone Xine compiled for it, but waaaaay slow
Nov 21 17:23:58 <RST38h> s/gone/got
Nov 21 17:24:58 <RST38h> When comparing it to ARM instruction set, you can clearly see that the designers were fixing shortcomings of the MIPS design, and largely succeeded
Nov 21 17:24:58 <javispedro> from what I read it doesn't run linux but a custom kernel, I though otherwise.
Nov 21 17:25:18 <javispedro> which may explain why it reached high performance with such low specs
Nov 21 17:25:26 <RST38h> javis: Doesn't matter, at the end it runs binary code, and does it slowly
Nov 21 17:25:27 <lardman> hmm, how are these supposed to work?: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/hildon/hildon-Additions-to-GTK+.html#HildonPortraitFlags
Nov 21 17:25:59 <javispedro> conny discovered it.
Nov 21 17:26:05 <javispedro> you may want to search for his -developers post
Nov 21 17:26:11 <lardman> ok
Nov 21 17:26:13 <RST38h> lardman: SUPPORT will tell wm that your window can be rotated
Nov 21 17:26:20 <javispedro> iirc he made a wiki entry, but I don't remember where.
Nov 21 17:26:27 <RST38h> REQUEST will tell wm that you do not suppor tlandscape at all
Nov 21 17:26:32 <lardman> yeah, but from the wording it looks like I can only choose one or the other, not both
Nov 21 17:26:42 <qwerty12> http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Portrait_Mode
Nov 21 17:26:43 <RST38h> why choose both?
Nov 21 17:26:52 <javispedro> qwerty12++ :)
Nov 21 17:26:55 <lardman> well because my app will be able to support both
Nov 21 17:27:01 <RST38h> semantically, choosing both makes no sense
Nov 21 17:27:11 <RST38h> lardman: Both morientations? that is SUPPORT
Nov 21 17:27:42 <javispedro> "That means that to get a rotated desktop all visible windows must have the HILDON_PORTRAIT_MODE_SUPPORT flag set to 1 and at least one of them must have the HILDON_PORTRAIT_MODE_REQUEST flag set to true."
Nov 21 17:28:07 <lardman> RST38h: that's what I thought, but the wording indicates that that will stick it there
Nov 21 17:28:17 <lardman> ah well, I'll just set it and see what happens
Nov 21 17:28:24 <lardman> qwerty12: thanks for the link btw :)
Nov 21 17:29:03 <RST38h> javis: sounds weird
Nov 21 17:29:29 <javispedro> the weird thing is that the wm doesn't "request" portrait when rotated
Nov 21 17:29:40 <javispedro> other than that, it's mostly what you explained.
Nov 21 17:29:57 <lardman> so this should work? hildon_gtk_window_set_portrait_flags(*window, HILDON_PORTRAIT_MODE_SUPPORT);
Nov 21 17:29:58 <javispedro> it's up to individual apps to request portrait when required.
Nov 21 17:30:03 <lardman> ignore the odd *window stuff
Nov 21 17:30:49 <javispedro> the autorotating stuff should be a candidate for libhildonextras
Nov 21 17:31:52 <RST38h> It is all messed up :(
Nov 21 17:32:06 * RST38h would expect WM simply resize his windows on rotation
Nov 21 17:32:29 <javispedro> heh I was right it the a320 used linux
Nov 21 17:32:41 <javispedro> the guy says the linux one goes faster than the custom kernel one.
Nov 21 17:32:57 <RST38h> javis: Ah, forget him, go for the sharper guy =)
Nov 21 17:33:01 <RST38h> That one is funnier
Nov 21 17:33:36 <javispedro> I tried the linux one or so the owner said me.
Nov 21 17:34:03 <RST38h> does it play GBA games at full speed based on sw emulation alone then? :)
Nov 21 17:34:15 <javispedro> it plays them "like ZSNES".
Nov 21 17:34:22 <javispedro> ..
Nov 21 17:34:29 <SpeedEvil> I thought it just transported large numbers of people over large distances quite fast.
Nov 21 17:34:57 <luke-jr> my GameBoy Advance plays GBA games at full speed :)
Nov 21 17:34:59 * luke-jr runs
Nov 21 17:35:23 <javispedro> my guess is that the dingoo's custom kernel one is snes9x while the "linux" one is drpocketsnes (as usual).
Nov 21 17:35:30 <javispedro> so no surprises.
Nov 21 17:35:51 <lardman> actually iirc the a320 does use Linux
Nov 21 17:36:05 <lardman> as I've seen in the inflight entertainment system crash
Nov 21 17:36:09 <lardman> ;)
Nov 21 17:36:32 <javispedro> post that to tmo just to confuse them ;)
Nov 21 17:36:49 <lardman> lol yeah
Nov 21 17:37:26 <javispedro> well I can't outcompete "it feels like ZSNES" so end of discussion.
Nov 21 17:39:52 <RST38h> lardman: I have seen it start X11
Nov 21 17:40:07 <RST38h> lardman: with the X cursor and all
Nov 21 17:40:14 <lardman> yeah, sounds about right
Nov 21 17:40:21 <lardman> bbiab
Nov 21 17:53:06 <javispedro> RST38h: oh, cmon. I can think of one workload where Java is faster than C.
Nov 21 17:53:26 <crashanddie> javispedro, development?
Nov 21 17:53:42 <javispedro> bah, that's subjective.
Nov 21 17:53:42 <crashanddie> javispedro, segfaults?
Nov 21 17:54:06 <javispedro> not really.
Nov 21 17:54:09 <javispedro> but
Nov 21 17:54:13 <javispedro> the equivalent of
Nov 21 17:54:47 <javispedro> const int max = A_LOT; for (int i = 0; i < max; i++) { void * m = malloc(60); } should be faster on Java.
Nov 21 17:54:56 <javispedro> ;)
Nov 21 17:55:22 <crashanddie> that is, until you reach the VM heap maximum
Nov 21 17:55:27 <crashanddie> at which point if would just fail
Nov 21 17:55:34 <crashanddie> it would**
Nov 21 17:55:41 <javispedro> well the C version would fail then too.
Nov 21 17:55:47 <jaska> iirc you cant even change the heap maximum runtime :|
Nov 21 17:55:49 <crashanddie> excepted C doesn't have a heap ;)
Nov 21 17:55:57 <crashanddie> jaska, you can, actually
Nov 21 17:55:59 <javispedro> the c library does.
Nov 21 17:56:06 <crashanddie> javispedro, it does?
Nov 21 17:56:13 <javispedro> malloc / free
Nov 21 17:56:17 <javispedro> that's a heap.
Nov 21 17:56:23 <javispedro> not garbage collected of course, but a heap.
Nov 21 17:56:25 <jaska> crashanddie: o.O, last time i looked i didnt figure out how to
Nov 21 17:56:35 <jaska> then again im no java guy
Nov 21 17:58:25 <crashanddie> javispedro, what I meant was: the Java VM has a pre-allocated chunk of memory
Nov 21 17:58:40 <crashanddie> javispedro, so memory assignment is just an internal process, whereas C needs to "ask" it from the OS
Nov 21 17:59:12 <javispedro> well If that's the case it is a limitation of the VM, not anything perse.
Nov 21 17:59:38 <javispedro> maybe because changing heap size at runtime on a generational gc is hard.
Nov 21 17:59:43 <javispedro> s/hard/complex
Nov 21 17:59:51 <javispedro> but shouldn't...
Nov 21 18:00:06 <javispedro> hum..
Nov 21 18:00:09 <javispedro> cometothinkofit
Nov 21 18:00:13 <javispedro> java can change the heap size at runtime!
Nov 21 18:00:22 <javispedro> I mean, the sun JVM does. There's a min and max settings.
Nov 21 18:02:36 <RST38h> javis: ohmygodrunforthehills
Nov 21 18:02:48 * RST38h remembers how KVM creates a new heap in each function
Nov 21 18:03:05 <RST38h> And destroys it at exit, apparently as the last ditch attempt to control memory leaks
Nov 21 18:03:06 * lcukn900 waves from kebab shop
Nov 21 18:03:16 <RST38h> moo lcuk
Nov 21 18:03:21 <RST38h> happy kebab time =)
Nov 21 18:04:20 <javispedro> well, my own stupid VM's "new" func is implemented as "void *p = stackP; stackP += request; return p" ;)
Nov 21 18:04:42 <javispedro> er.. stackP is a stupid name here but you get the idea
Nov 21 18:05:11 <javispedro> and malloc performance is everything! I will rule the world!
Nov 21 18:05:15 * javispedro hides
Nov 21 18:07:09 <RST38h> javis: you remember that test that showed Java being faster than C++?
Nov 21 18:07:42 <Proteous> pics or it didn't happen...
Nov 21 18:07:45 <javispedro> RST38h: which one?
Nov 21 18:07:46 <RST38h> by as much as 30%
Nov 21 18:08:08 <Proteous> maybe 30% or more
Nov 21 18:08:19 <javispedro> cause there's like a hundred of them... (there's quite a lot of academics that want to put java back on supercomputing centers...)
Nov 21 18:08:19 <RST38h> javis: Well, they basically took a few web-bound applications, programmed them in Java and C++ (similar code) and showed how Java was 30% faster
Nov 21 18:08:56 <javispedro> "web-bound"?
Nov 21 18:08:59 <javispedro> heh.
Nov 21 18:08:59 <RST38h> javis: Closer examination revealed that these apps did a lot of memory allocations (strings! web is all about strings)
Nov 21 18:09:23 <javispedro> there's also an interesting point where the sun jvm performs well
Nov 21 18:09:28 <RST38h> javis: And GCC memory allocator just hasn't been tuned well enough. Java memory allocator obviously was
Nov 21 18:09:40 <lcukn900> rst happens everywhere
Nov 21 18:09:48 <javispedro> runtime inlining -- don't understimate it specially when gcc doesn't use intercompilation unit optimizations
Nov 21 18:10:02 <RST38h> lcuk: Not everywhere can you get rights to claim that "java is faster than c++" though :)
Nov 21 18:10:22 <RST38h> javis: does nothing to those new's and delete's
Nov 21 18:10:46 <RST38h> javis: Using memory pools does help though, but it is usually application-specific approach
Nov 21 18:11:07 <RST38h> javis: But forget all that, in GCC they all end up with malloc()s
Nov 21 18:11:23 <RST38h> Or did, anyway
Nov 21 18:11:26 <javispedro> yeah, but sometimes makes the jvm perform much better in smaller benchmarks -- until you add -fwhole-program to the C program flags
Nov 21 18:11:37 <Flandry> man i love this channel
Nov 21 18:12:10 <javispedro> Flandry: it IS lovely :)
Nov 21 18:12:19 <RST38h> javis: Dunno, frankly I have not seen that happen ever.
Nov 21 18:12:39 <RST38h> javis: I did see Java applet crash Linux once though =)
Nov 21 18:12:49 <Proteous> I have never not seen it not happen sometimes
Nov 21 18:13:05 <javispedro> heh
Nov 21 18:15:46 <RST38h> Four more votes needed for Speccy
Nov 21 18:16:05 <kkito> hello
Nov 21 18:16:12 <javispedro> RST38h: i've seen it happen specially in non-serious benchmarks. Cause every C++ serious benchmarks doesn't abuse virtual functions where performance is required etc.
Nov 21 18:16:23 <kkito> i am programming a videogame for n900
Nov 21 18:16:31 <RST38h> javis: virtual functions impact is somewhat overrated :)
Nov 21 18:16:36 <kkito> i have problems capturing the X event keys
Nov 21 18:16:58 <kkito> i am able to capture mouse press, mouse motion, but no even keyboard key press
Nov 21 18:17:02 <kkito> do you know why?
Nov 21 18:17:12 <javispedro> what toolkit are you using, kkito?
Nov 21 18:17:19 <javispedro> gtk+, qt, sdl, or bare x11?
Nov 21 18:17:23 <kkito> javispedro, i am using Xlib
Nov 21 18:17:50 <javispedro> interesting. can you see if your keypresses go to a background app?
Nov 21 18:17:58 <RST38h> javis: STL is probably worst offender performance wise, because it implicitely uses dynamic memory allocation
Nov 21 18:18:07 <adeus> should it matter?
Nov 21 18:18:14 <RST38h> javis: Then exception handling
Nov 21 18:18:16 <adeus> if you're monitoring the xevent loop
Nov 21 18:18:23 <kkito> javispedro, yes, the contact list
Nov 21 18:18:33 <javispedro> I mean, if while your application is topmost keypresses go to a background window
Nov 21 18:18:45 <javispedro> that means your app is not requesting the input focus, which the fremantle wm seems to care about.
Nov 21 18:18:46 <qwerty12> kkito: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/55127?page=last
Nov 21 18:18:55 <Flandry> ah yes, it's time for my daily RFT (request for testers): http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/
Nov 21 18:19:48 <javispedro> https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1526&action=view
Nov 21 18:19:54 <Flandry> hmm are they really sticking to the demand that all apps have a bugchecker id
Nov 21 18:19:55 <javispedro> Input focus, as I though :)
Nov 21 18:20:11 <kkito> javispedro, when i press th "a" key (for example), then the contact list window open ups
Nov 21 18:20:14 <Flandry> last discussion i saw of that, it was a discouraged encouragement
Nov 21 18:20:22 <qwerty12> kkito: Again, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/55127?page=last
Nov 21 18:20:40 <javispedro> kkito: yeah, that's the input focus problem. look at qwerty12's link and https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1526&action=view
Nov 21 18:21:31 * qwerty12 can't believe they still haven't applied that patch...
Nov 21 18:21:40 <qwerty12> Been a while since I filed it
Nov 21 18:21:40 <kkito> ok, i am goint to take look, thx to all!
Nov 21 18:22:07 <javispedro> it should be in upstream doesn't it?
Nov 21 18:23:15 * qwerty12 has no idea about xev's upstream =)
Nov 21 18:23:38 <javispedro> i guess xorg
Nov 21 18:24:07 <qwerty12> xev on the N900 gave me problems so, naturally, I just uploaded that patch to Maemo's bugtracker
Nov 21 18:24:34 <javispedro> yes yes, that's good enough.
Nov 21 18:25:21 <kkito> javispedro, do you know the bug number of the last patch?
Nov 21 18:25:32 <qwerty12_N810> bug 5987
Nov 21 18:25:34 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5987 xev does not catch keypresses on N900
Nov 21 18:41:26 <tigert> i think on Home, theres something that grabs kbd events to do the quick contact search / phonecall popup
Nov 21 18:41:29 <Proteous> I caught a keypress once, just about broke my net.
Nov 21 18:41:45 <tigert> maybe that interferes
Nov 21 18:42:25 <tigert> maybe theres a way to make it work, I'd ask on the mailing list -dunno if this has been discussed before
Nov 21 18:55:21 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: I lack the motivation, and - since it uses libhildonfm2 - I can't see how it would be any better :)
Nov 21 18:56:17 <RST38h> qwerty: ah =)
Nov 21 19:36:58 <Jaffa> Ev'ning
Nov 21 19:38:42 <pupnik> nes emu runs 200+ fps internally
Nov 21 19:40:53 <RST38h> moo pupnik
Nov 21 19:42:00 <zerojay> which one?
Nov 21 19:51:02 <RST38h> "Has Sci-Fi Run Out of Steam?" (C)Slashdot
Nov 21 19:51:14 <Flandry> hmm
Nov 21 19:51:28 <RST38h> (no, idiots, you are just growing out of your favorite sysadmin scifi genres)
Nov 21 19:52:35 <`0660_> :)
Nov 21 19:52:47 <Flandry> ha
Nov 21 19:53:20 <Flandry> well i think the problem is that the achievable has been narrowed leaving only the unachievable
Nov 21 19:53:33 <Flandry> look at Poul Anderson's later work
Nov 21 19:53:47 <RST38h> You are missing the point ;)
Nov 21 19:54:01 <Flandry> it was all more or less hard science fiction, and always came to the conclusion that human space travel is a doomed endeavor
Nov 21 19:54:35 <Flandry> so the ability of sci fi to motivate and inspire has been reduced by our achievement of the majority of the inspiring bits
Nov 21 19:54:57 <RST38h> Like any other literature, good scifi is about people, not about technology or science
Nov 21 19:55:26 <Flandry> that's neither here nor there by the criterion of the article
Nov 21 19:56:03 <RST38h> So, if you concetrate solely on technology (and all these slashdotters appear to be cyberpunk fans) then you sooner or later run out of steam
Nov 21 19:56:12 <Flandry> Boat of a Million Years is a great example of this
Nov 21 19:56:27 <RST38h> Haven't read it, but there are multiple good examples
Nov 21 19:56:54 <RST38h> They are just more complex than another cyberpunk book about the "cyberspace"
Nov 21 19:57:03 <Flandry> it doesn't concentrate on technology, but on the effect that advancement has on humankind
Nov 21 19:57:22 <RST38h> Well, stuff by Dan Simmons is all like that
Nov 21 19:57:25 <Flandry> the human spirit as it were
Nov 21 19:57:26 <javispedro> if I read another book where cyberspace is the premise i'm going to puke
Nov 21 19:57:35 <Flandry> i never got into those actually
Nov 21 19:57:36 <RST38h> Some of it is seriously hallucinogenic
Nov 21 19:57:42 <Flandry> haven't even read snow crash
Nov 21 19:57:45 <RST38h> Try them
Nov 21 19:57:52 <Flandry> meh
Nov 21 19:57:57 * RST38h also have not read Snow Crash. Tried but was turned off
Nov 21 19:58:14 <crashanddie> god Assassin's Creed II is a good game
Nov 21 19:58:29 <RST38h> China Mieville also writes decent stuff, not sure what drugs he is on though
Nov 21 19:58:35 <lardman|afk> crashanddie: really?
Nov 21 19:58:47 <crashanddie> lardman|afk, yeah, I love it
Nov 21 19:58:49 <lardman|afk> crashanddie: last one was rather repetitive
Nov 21 19:58:58 <crashanddie> lardman|afk, got it yesterday evening, played 12 hours straight
Nov 21 19:59:05 <lardman> bloody hell
Nov 21 19:59:11 <Flandry> i like sci fi as an ensign of the human spirit, not an exploration of alternative realities/lifestyles
Nov 21 19:59:17 * microlith ponders an on-device answering machine for the N900
Nov 21 19:59:18 <crashanddie> lardman, they added a monetary system which really changes the whole game
Nov 21 19:59:29 <Flandry> Heinlein walked the line usually
Nov 21 19:59:29 <lardman> I bought CoD Modern Warfare 2 the other day
Nov 21 19:59:33 <lardman> nice game
Nov 21 19:59:35 <crashanddie> lardman, yeah, got that too
Nov 21 19:59:41 <crashanddie> lardman, solo is too short though
Nov 21 19:59:47 <crashanddie> lardman, PS3 or xbox?
Nov 21 19:59:57 <lardman> PC
Nov 21 20:00:00 <crashanddie> damn
Nov 21 20:00:31 <lardman> I need an nVidia 260 or higher for work, so should make the graphics even better :)
Nov 21 20:00:46 <crashanddie> lardman, so basically, in AC2, there's one city that you can invest in, so that for example, you upgrade the bank, a few stores and build a brothel, and suddenly the whole city changes, everything looks a lot nicer
Nov 21 20:01:07 <Flandry> heheh the brothel really spruces things up eh?
Nov 21 20:01:10 <crashanddie> lardman, after that, it brings you a steady income, and now that I've upgraded everything in the city, it basically pays for all my skills upgrades
Nov 21 20:01:12 <lardman> oh right, you can invest money?
Nov 21 20:01:24 <lardman> what about game play though?
Nov 21 20:01:39 * Chani worries
Nov 21 20:01:40 <lardman> I didn't much like the fighting in the last one, plus the endless repetition of the missions was boring
Nov 21 20:01:41 <crashanddie> because when you steal from people, it makes you "known" from the guards, and there's posters of you and stuff
Nov 21 20:02:06 <crashanddie> lardman, well, fighting is pretty much the same, even though there's a lot of variation in the actions you can do
Nov 21 20:02:17 <Chani> so I woke up this morning because my n900 made a funny noise. it's plugged into my laptop but still had the orange charging light. it wasn't responding.
Nov 21 20:02:22 <crashanddie> that being said, because you've got that much more items at your disposition, you don't actually have to fight
Nov 21 20:02:52 <crashanddie> just shoot a smoke bomb and run away, dive into the water and swim under water to escape, hire a militia on the fly to stop the guards, etc
Nov 21 20:03:29 <crashanddie> you can also hire some thiefs or hos to distract the guards while you slip through undetected
Nov 21 20:03:40 <Chani> I held down the power button until it turned off... then I tried to turn it back on... I get five dots bouncing back and forth for a coule of seconds, hten the screen goes blank but there's still a blue glow from hte corner light, hten nothing
Nov 21 20:04:16 <Chani> I can see a faint nokia logo on hte screen...
Nov 21 20:04:29 <crashanddie> Chani, pull the usb cable
Nov 21 20:04:33 <crashanddie> Chani, pull the battery
Nov 21 20:04:44 <CoreFusion-> Chani: take the battery off for a while
Nov 21 20:04:54 <Chani> aw crud, it's so hard to get at the battery...
Nov 21 20:05:03 <RST38h> Flandry : can't say much of human spirit
Nov 21 20:05:03 <crashanddie> no it's not
Nov 21 20:05:04 <mikhas> Chani, use a credit card
Nov 21 20:05:27 <crashanddie> Chani, this is a N900, not an iPhone, getting the battery out isn't hard, in comparison
Nov 21 20:05:32 * Chani pulls it out
Nov 21 20:05:35 <Chani> crashanddie: oh?
Nov 21 20:05:44 <RST38h> Flandry : but the details of the setting (i.e. the alternativeness of reality etc) are kinda arbitrary in good sci fi
Nov 21 20:05:52 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, yeah, 1 was repetitive but the story kept me in through the end.
Nov 21 20:05:59 * Chani got to play with an iphone for a minute once. it was weird.
Nov 21 20:06:09 <RST38h> Flandry: can be a freaking fairy land with unicorns for all I care :)
Nov 21 20:06:17 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles & lardman: also, now you don't need to get the viewpoints, investigate or beat someone up, and then kill the guy
Nov 21 20:06:21 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, too bad about PC. My friends and I have been reeking havoc on the 360. ;)
Nov 21 20:06:22 <Flandry> sure
Nov 21 20:06:29 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, that's nice.
Nov 21 20:06:31 <lardman> GeneralAntilles, crashanddie: I need to go back and continue it really
Nov 21 20:06:44 <RST38h> ok, away
Nov 21 20:06:45 <GeneralAntilles> The viewpoints, while cinematic, got incredibly, stupidly repetitive after a very short time.
Nov 21 20:07:03 <lardman> GeneralAntilles, crashanddie: It's pretty crap that these cross-platform games don't allow cross-platform multiplayer
Nov 21 20:07:11 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Nov 21 20:07:16 <GeneralAntilles> It makes sense, though
Nov 21 20:07:22 <GeneralAntilles> PC players would completely dominate the console players.
Nov 21 20:07:24 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles & lardman: the game doesn't care about the viewpoints really, you just don't have a map if you don't... even though you still see all the interest points relative to your missions, you just don't see what's around ya
Nov 21 20:07:33 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: why?
Nov 21 20:07:44 <crashanddie> lardman, because keyboard and mouse rocks the casbah?
Nov 21 20:07:49 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, because two joysticks do not a mouse and keyboard make.
Nov 21 20:08:01 <lardman> indeed, so why buy a console I ask myself ;)
Nov 21 20:08:09 <Flandry> indeed
Nov 21 20:08:10 <GeneralAntilles> Price, convenienc
Nov 21 20:08:12 <crashanddie> lardman, because it's a helluva lot cheaper?
Nov 21 20:08:12 <Flandry> i never have
Nov 21 20:08:14 <GeneralAntilles> and social stuff.
Nov 21 20:08:20 <lardman> is it cheaper?
Nov 21 20:08:21 <Flandry> i need a comp anyway
Nov 21 20:08:27 <crashanddie> I paid £250 for the PS3, with 2 games
Nov 21 20:08:27 <GeneralAntilles> An Xbox 360 is $200.
Nov 21 20:08:27 <lardman> I guess so, depends if you need a PC for work or not
Nov 21 20:08:33 <Chani> :/ now it just doesn't want to turn on.
Nov 21 20:08:36 <crashanddie> lardman, and that's the new one, the slim
Nov 21 20:08:43 <GeneralAntilles> No screwing around with drivers, network cards or running out of hard drive space.
Nov 21 20:08:46 <lardman> yeah fair enough
Nov 21 20:08:53 <GeneralAntilles> Just get online and play
Nov 21 20:09:02 <crashanddie> lardman, plus i get BBC iPlayer in HD on it, bluray, and what not (and also, no cheating bastards)
Nov 21 20:09:03 <GeneralAntilles> Plus, all of my friends have 360s.
Nov 21 20:09:10 <GeneralAntilles> Very few of them have gaming-capable PCs.
Nov 21 20:09:14 * lardman wonders when a coop Aliens vs Marines game will come out...?
Nov 21 20:09:22 <Chani> I get a solid yellow light if I plug in the usb
Nov 21 20:09:24 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, Gears of War?
Nov 21 20:09:30 <lardman> We used to play at work/uni
Nov 21 20:09:36 <lardman> no like real Aliens
Nov 21 20:09:36 <sp3000> Chani: use a charger
Nov 21 20:09:44 <sp3000> for a few minutes
Nov 21 20:09:51 <Chani> sp3000: the usb charger is my only chargere
Nov 21 20:10:05 <crashanddie> Chani, leave it be for a couple of minutes
Nov 21 20:10:06 <lardman> there was supposed to be a coop game coming out where you (or us, our group) could play the Marines, were rather looking forward to that
Nov 21 20:10:15 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines perhaps?
Nov 21 20:10:18 <Chani> poor little thing...
Nov 21 20:10:21 <crashanddie> lardman, like an evo of AvP?
Nov 21 20:10:27 <lardman> crashanddie: yeah
Nov 21 20:10:31 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: sounds about right
Nov 21 20:10:40 <GeneralAntilles> I love coop campaign games.
Nov 21 20:10:43 <lardman> we mod'ed AvP, but wasn't great for coop
Nov 21 20:10:53 <crashanddie> AvP was awesome though
Nov 21 20:11:02 <crashanddie> 3 marines, 1 queen, 20 hours of fun
Nov 21 20:11:18 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, have you tried Tremulous?
Nov 21 20:11:23 <Chani> ooh! picked it up and it vibrated and the light started pulsing. :)
Nov 21 20:11:26 <crashanddie> anyway, getting back to the game
Nov 21 20:11:36 <crashanddie> Chani, that's what she said
Nov 21 20:11:39 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: nope
Nov 21 20:11:41 <Chani> hehehe
Nov 21 20:11:43 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, do.
Nov 21 20:11:56 <crashanddie> oh, and lardman
Nov 21 20:12:02 <lardman> ah, I've heard of it, read about it
Nov 21 20:12:14 <crashanddie> why buy a console? Because it's easier to convince the spouse that you're spending the money on something "everyone will use"
Nov 21 20:12:16 <lardman> now I see the screenie
Nov 21 20:12:27 <lardman> lol
Nov 21 20:12:39 <lardman> well mine wants a wii
Nov 21 20:12:43 <lardman> I think
Nov 21 20:13:06 <GeneralAntilles> Ought to buy one and find out. :P
Nov 21 20:13:17 * lardman thinks back to the afternoons of Multiplayer Far Cry and Doom3
Nov 21 20:13:34 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: money doesn't grow on trees ;p
Nov 21 20:13:45 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, oh? Sucks for you, then. :P
Nov 21 20:13:49 <lardman> lol
Nov 21 20:14:04 * GeneralAntilles waited in line in sub-freezing weather to get a Wii.
Nov 21 20:14:09 <qwerty12_N810> lardman: No, but they're easily softmodded, so you can - *ahem* - get back the money
Nov 21 20:14:48 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Nov 21 20:14:52 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N810, bad person.
Nov 21 20:15:00 <lardman> the big problem with the wii, the way I see it, is that you should just go out and play the sport you are playing on it, rather than risking your living room furntiure
Nov 21 20:15:01 <GeneralAntilles> But USB loading really does reduce load times.
Nov 21 20:15:03 <crashanddie> lardman, oh, and another reason to buy AC2: Leonardo Da Vincin
Nov 21 20:15:05 <crashanddie> -n
Nov 21 20:15:12 <GeneralAntilles> and it's much nicer not having to rifle through CD cases.
Nov 21 20:15:27 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, Wii Sports is only a small part of the Wii's appeal. ;)
Nov 21 20:15:43 <GeneralAntilles> Zelda and Mario are in there, too.
Nov 21 20:15:44 <crashanddie> lardman, wii sports is fun with multiple people, it really can be super fun, for any kind of group age
Nov 21 20:15:52 <GeneralAntilles> (Super Mario Bros Wii is absolutely amazing)
Nov 21 20:15:54 <crashanddie> (no surprise there that they sold 50 million units)
Nov 21 20:15:59 * lardman thinks of real sports being super fun, etc., etc
Nov 21 20:16:15 <lardman> :)
Nov 21 20:16:25 <crashanddie> lardman, yeah, but how many of your mates come round for a beer or dinner and you then go, "let's go play some tennis, you brought your racket with?"
Nov 21 20:16:39 <lardman> not many, true
Nov 21 20:16:40 <crashanddie> It's not about playing the sport
Nov 21 20:16:43 <crashanddie> it's about having fun
Nov 21 20:17:09 <crashanddie> same as when you play a video game where you mass murder 300 civilians, it really isn't something you'd do because you're bored on a saturday afternoon
Nov 21 20:17:16 <crashanddie> (MW2)
Nov 21 20:17:25 <lardman> true
Nov 21 20:17:35 <lardman> well, probably depends on what you have available
Nov 21 20:18:29 <lardman> so, wii probably the best bet for "fun" gaming, rather than serious, which I'd do on the PC anyway
Nov 21 20:18:30 <lardman> ?
Nov 21 20:19:02 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, you don't mass murder anybody.
Nov 21 20:19:16 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, I fired all of 50 rounds in that mission and none of them were at civilians.
Nov 21 20:19:26 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, generally speaking.
Nov 21 20:19:32 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, although it has its share of serious stuff, too.
Nov 21 20:19:34 <lardman> going back OT for a moment, can I disable an edit/entry widget so I can select and copy from it,. but not edit it?
Nov 21 20:19:42 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, talking about playing online, I mass murder everyone <-- leet playa
Nov 21 20:19:49 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, ha, sure.
Nov 21 20:19:57 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: just thinking of the wife really, and I'll doubtless play it too :)
Nov 21 20:19:58 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, jk, I destroyed those headless chicken in the airport
Nov 21 20:20:09 <lardman> any sword/stick fighting games?
Nov 21 20:20:16 * lardman doesn't do that enough in the real world
Nov 21 20:20:53 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, by the way, everybody's a "leet playa" in their own eyes. :P
Nov 21 20:20:56 <GeneralAntilles> Just ask qwerty12.
Nov 21 20:22:28 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, Actually, I used to be pretty good at CS back in the day
Nov 21 20:22:33 <qwerty12_N810> lardman: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/gtk/GtkEditable.html#gtk-editable-set-editable
Nov 21 20:22:53 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, was in ATR, top10 FR, went to the CPL in 2002 (won't say my ranking though)
Nov 21 20:23:15 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, but now, I really don't play "for da frags" anymore, I just want to enjoy myself
Nov 21 20:23:29 <qwerty12_N810> Too much info =)
Nov 21 20:23:33 <lardman> qwerty12_N810: thanks, missed that
Nov 21 20:25:53 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, as long as I'm maintaining a positive KDR I'm good. ;)
Nov 21 20:26:05 <GeneralAntilles> Got some dead-weight friends to compensate for.
Nov 21 20:26:07 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, I'm not even pos in MW2
Nov 21 20:26:23 <lardman> what's KDR?
Nov 21 20:26:28 <lardman> Kills to Death ratio?
Nov 21 20:26:30 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Nov 21 20:26:37 <GeneralAntilles> Hovering around 1.5 here.
Nov 21 20:28:33 <lardman> http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Portrait_Mode is confusing
Nov 21 20:28:58 <lardman> is the recommended method to listen for the orientation messages, or the screen size change ones?
Nov 21 20:29:01 <GeneralAntilles> Finnglish!
Nov 21 20:29:18 <qwerty12_N810> GeneralAntilles: camelCase!
Nov 21 20:29:25 <philosopher> do you guys think maemo need a beter sdk/develloping platform to attract more coders ?
Nov 21 20:29:37 <GeneralAntilles> philosopher, yes.
Nov 21 20:29:48 <lcuk> yes
Nov 21 20:29:51 <philosopher> and is there work on that from nokia ?
Nov 21 20:30:01 <lcuk> well, not in some ways
Nov 21 20:30:02 <philosopher> maybe a higher language than c/c++
Nov 21 20:30:14 <GeneralAntilles> philosopher, that's not the answer.
Nov 21 20:30:14 <lcuk> the language isnt the problem
Nov 21 20:30:22 <GeneralAntilles> Something that ins't obnoxious and irritating to install and use
Nov 21 20:30:22 <qwerty12_N810> philosopher: ATM, I think Maemo needs an app store that has not had its policies designed by an idiot
Nov 21 20:30:30 <GeneralAntilles> and actually supports a number of platforms.
Nov 21 20:30:36 <lcuk> the current nice gui sdk installs cleanly now with minimum of fuss
Nov 21 20:30:50 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N810, s/idiot/team of lawyers/
Nov 21 20:31:40 <philosopher> actually the sdk doesnt work for me
Nov 21 20:31:48 <lardman> the issue there is that they've not bothered to change the rules isn't it?
Nov 21 20:31:51 <qwerty12_N810> GeneralAntilles: When I have to admit Apple has done it better, it makes me cry inside :)
Nov 21 20:31:52 <GeneralAntilles> Grab the VM
Nov 21 20:31:56 <lardman> philosopher: how so?
Nov 21 20:32:04 <philosopher> but what i meant is that it seems that android and iphone Os avec better developent env than maemo
Nov 21 20:32:11 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N810, Apple often does things better.
Nov 21 20:32:18 <lcuk> better is subjective
Nov 21 20:32:22 <GeneralAntilles> The compromises you have to make for it though are often disagreeable.
Nov 21 20:32:23 <philosopher> lardman: just hang-up every time i try using firefox
Nov 21 20:32:40 <lardman> inside scratchbox?
Nov 21 20:32:44 <philosopher> yes
Nov 21 20:32:44 <lcuk> you can build everything in the current sdk
Nov 21 20:32:53 <philosopher> with vmwre and ubuntu
Nov 21 20:32:54 <lardman> philosopher: well that's not really what it's for
Nov 21 20:33:09 <philosopher> lardman:  really ? i missed something then
Nov 21 20:33:18 <lardman> have you cross-compiled firefox for the device?
Nov 21 20:33:28 <lardman> and are now trying to run it from within sb?
Nov 21 20:33:45 <lardman> which target? armel or x86?
Nov 21 20:34:09 * lcuk grabs bottle of wine and offers to folks
Nov 21 20:34:16 <lardman> yes please!
Nov 21 20:34:17 <lardman> :)
Nov 21 20:34:24 * lcuk nods
Nov 21 20:34:42 * lcuk pours glass to the brim and necks it 
Nov 21 20:34:44 <philosopher> armel
Nov 21 20:34:55 <lardman> armel emulation has issues
Nov 21 20:34:57 <philosopher> but i thought the sdk contain already a ready image of maemo ?
Nov 21 20:35:00 <lardman> best to test on device really
Nov 21 20:35:09 <lardman> not afaiu anyway
Nov 21 20:35:20 <philosopher> GeneralAntilles:  compromise ?
Nov 21 20:35:21 <lcuk> philosopher, it contains a close enough version
Nov 21 20:35:25 <lcuk> with web browser and apps
Nov 21 20:35:50 <lcuk> on your x86 machine i believe you are still best running the x86 target
Nov 21 20:35:52 <GeneralAntilles> philosopher, you loose freedom for a functional ecosystem.
Nov 21 20:36:10 <philosopher> GeneralAntilles: functional ecosystem ?
Nov 21 20:36:22 <lcuk> functional ecosystem?
Nov 21 20:36:49 <qwerty12_N810> functional ecosystem?
Nov 21 20:38:23 * lardman goes for more wine ;)
Nov 21 20:38:54 * Shapeshifter is standing in front of the NYC flagship store.
Nov 21 20:38:54 <andre__> wine! good idea...
Nov 21 20:39:06 <Shapeshifter> ....on google street view
Nov 21 20:39:12 <lcuk> Shapeshifter, excellent are you buying?
Nov 21 20:39:15 <lcuk> doh!
Nov 21 20:39:19 <Shapeshifter> xD
Nov 21 20:39:52 <Shapeshifter> there's a huge UPS van blocking the view.
Nov 21 20:40:14 * qwerty12_N810 is sitting in his house, on his sofa, watching the Shit Factor, with his N810 and N900 in his hands
Nov 21 20:40:14 <lcuk> n900 delivery?
Nov 21 20:40:29 <philosopher> GeneralAntilles:  ?
Nov 21 20:41:40 <philosopher> so anyone think nokia need to adopt like mono or java as an offical languages ?
Nov 21 20:42:01 <Shapeshifter> there's a loot of taxis in NYC
Nov 21 20:42:36 <microlith> philosopher: no, very much no
Nov 21 20:42:50 <philosopher> really ?
Nov 21 20:42:51 <philosopher> purist ?
Nov 21 20:42:52 <qwerty12_N810> philosopher: Just you?
Nov 21 20:43:09 <philosopher> not just asking actually i am a c/c++ develloper
Nov 21 20:43:30 <philosopher> but most app develloper dont like c/c++
Nov 21 20:43:54 <lcuk> adopting a new language would be a massive undertaking and would require a substantial retooling whilst also making sure the underlying framework still existed: for reference look at the move to qt
Nov 21 20:44:20 <luke-jr> philosopher: Mono/Java suck
Nov 21 20:44:31 <philosopher> luke-jr:  is trolling ?
Nov 21 20:44:37 <lardman> good lord, X-Factor is the biggest pile of bollocks I've ever had the misfortune to walk in and watch a couple of minutes of while pouring myself a glass of wine
Nov 21 20:44:37 <luke-jr> the real world works in C and such
Nov 21 20:44:50 <lcuk> hey luke-jr you see ms opened up the mini .net framework under apache license?
Nov 21 20:44:59 <luke-jr> lcuk: like I care?
Nov 21 20:45:00 <lcuk> or micro/nano or whatever its called
Nov 21 20:45:08 <philosopher> lcuk:  good point but isnt that really neccessary to get the kind of cusual developer that meamo needs ?
Nov 21 20:45:12 <lcuk> its open source tho
Nov 21 20:45:14 <luke-jr> so?
Nov 21 20:45:21 <luke-jr> it's still .NET :p
Nov 21 20:45:25 * lardman likes C
Nov 21 20:45:29 <lcuk> philosopher, readup on python
Nov 21 20:45:29 <philosopher> luke-jr: you are making pointless argument...
Nov 21 20:45:46 <lcuk> casual devs can use that, less causal ones will stick with cobol or lisp
Nov 21 20:45:56 <lardman> nah, assembly
Nov 21 20:46:03 <qwerty12_N810> lardman: I thought you were a MATLAB guy? :)
Nov 21 20:46:18 <lcuk> matlab is c++ isnt it
Nov 21 20:46:24 <lardman> yeah for most stuff, but when I have to write something fast I turn back to old school C or FORTRAN
Nov 21 20:46:34 <qwerty12_N810> Heh
Nov 21 20:47:13 <lardman> and MATLAB's pretty quick actually, C is only 2x as fast
Nov 21 20:47:18 * lcuk adores C, detests the boilerplate and padding around the useful parts
Nov 21 20:47:42 <philosopher> actually the .net compact is not opensource
Nov 21 20:47:51 <lcuk> i never said compact
Nov 21 20:48:12 <lardman> sounds like something with a mirror + sponge in it
Nov 21 20:48:37 <lardman> s/sponge/poof
Nov 21 20:48:54 <philosopher> lcuk:  was talking about mono ?
Nov 21 20:49:33 <philosopher> so if i understand you guys think that c++/c is the languages needs
Nov 21 20:49:39 <lcuk> no, i was talking about the .net micro framework used in embedded systems (like the MS clock)   its a minimal super tight .net implementation
Nov 21 20:49:44 <lcuk> and looks supercool tbh
Nov 21 20:50:03 <lardman> philosopher: no, Python or similar would be better to get people programming really
Nov 21 20:50:26 <philosopher> lcuk:  but pointless when your platform have an oss
Nov 21 20:50:48 <philosopher> lardman: hummm maybe
Nov 21 20:51:28 <philosopher> i ll give it a try never programmed in python
Nov 21 20:51:28 <lardman> well, something simple, and Python is reasonably so
Nov 21 20:51:32 <lcuk> philosopher, you rightly pointed out java/monoetc.  i like the language of .net
Nov 21 20:51:52 <lardman> that's because you've had the misfortune to program for Windows recently ;)
Nov 21 20:52:08 <philosopher> lol
Nov 21 20:52:21 <philosopher> lardman:  have try c# and .net dev env ?
Nov 21 20:52:22 <lcuk> you told us you enjoyed it
Nov 21 20:52:29 <lcuk> you came in chan every night happy as larry
Nov 21 20:52:36 <lcuk> "ohhh look i got to build a form today!"
Nov 21 20:52:46 <lardman> oi, stop tarnishing my good name!
Nov 21 20:52:59 <lardman> I did have to embrace VB (6) once again the other day though
Nov 21 20:53:10 <lcuk> see
Nov 21 20:53:17 <lcuk> hi javis
Nov 21 20:53:33 * lcuk gets back to scratchbox anyway
Nov 21 20:53:42 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: You? Scratchbox?
Nov 21 20:53:45 <lardman> so I guess it's comparatively better ;)
Nov 21 20:53:55 <lcuk> :) yes
Nov 21 20:54:45 <javispedro> hi lcuk
Nov 21 20:54:47 <philosopher> so what should i download to start mamoe dev ?
Nov 21 20:55:07 <frogger> does someone can give me a hint how to get the selected text in the GtkEntry widget ?
Nov 21 20:55:08 <frogger> does someone can give me a hint how to get the selected text in the GtkEntry widget ?
Nov 21 20:55:13 <javispedro> philosopher: the SDK
Nov 21 20:55:22 <lardman> philosopher: what do you want to program?
Nov 21 20:55:27 <lardman> philosopher: what sort of apps?
Nov 21 20:55:42 <philosopher> lardman: no clue just testing how the dev env is
Nov 21 20:56:44 <lardman> I see
Nov 21 20:57:06 <lardman> well you could do Python on-device, or anywhere else you wanted, as long as you test on device
Nov 21 20:57:55 <lcuk> philosopher, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation
Nov 21 20:57:59 <lcuk> if you are in linux
Nov 21 20:58:02 <philosopher> dont i need a set library for biding ?
Nov 21 20:58:17 * javispedro actually likes sbox
Nov 21 20:58:28 <javispedro> then the only other embedded toolchain I've used is the oldie palmos one, so...
Nov 21 20:58:39 <lardman> philosopher: Python in interpreted
Nov 21 20:58:43 <lardman> s/in/is
Nov 21 20:58:56 <philosopher> lcuk:  that what i did , but i thought someone said that the sdk wasnt for develloping ?
Nov 21 20:59:28 <lcuk> its a TLA, (S)oftware (D)evelopment (K)it
Nov 21 20:59:39 <lcuk> you decide
Nov 21 20:59:44 <philosopher> lardman: yes... that why i beileve that maemo could rely on it for heavy development
Nov 21 21:00:06 <lardman> it's slower than C/C++ though, and the bindings are not all present
Nov 21 21:00:09 <javispedro> considering on of the complais of android is the fact everything is interpreted...
Nov 21 21:00:12 <javispedro> s/on/one
Nov 21 21:00:17 <javispedro> s/complais/complaints
Nov 21 21:00:19 <philosopher> lcuk ok  now i am confuse ....
Nov 21 21:00:25 <lcuk> its java isnt it
Nov 21 21:00:36 <javispedro>  I was surprised when I found the android sdk contains an actual emulator
Nov 21 21:00:48 <javispedro> being java I though they would just ship a x86 dalvik
Nov 21 21:01:00 <philosopher> i said that the sdk didnt work for me and hangup anytime i  use firefox in the scratchbox
Nov 21 21:01:12 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 21 21:01:12 <javispedro> firefox in the scratchbox?
Nov 21 21:01:20 <timeless_mbp> so... are people using mxr.maemo.org yet?
Nov 21 21:01:33 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: fwiw, that will definitely fail soon if it doesn't yet
Nov 21 21:01:34 <philosopher> javispedro:  yes
Nov 21 21:01:41 <timeless_mbp> firefox jit requires armvSomething
Nov 21 21:01:50 <timeless_mbp> and last i checked qemu's armv support was lame
Nov 21 21:02:04 <javispedro> timeless: I used it a bit a few days ago, search for some clutter or hildon-desktop related stuff iirc. worked fine.
Nov 21 21:02:18 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: =)
Nov 21 21:02:27 <timeless_mbp> please advertise it
Nov 21 21:02:32 <GeneralAntilles> philosopher, dear god no Java.
Nov 21 21:02:36 <timeless_mbp> it can save people a lot of time/trouble
Nov 21 21:02:44 <timeless_mbp> and it can certainly save me a lot of frustration
Nov 21 21:03:01 <javispedro> agreed, a pretty useful tool.
Nov 21 21:03:36 <crashanddie> javispedro, Android supports native C
Nov 21 21:03:40 <javispedro> philosopher: why do you want to run firefox in scratchbox? or do you mean the "Maemo Browser"?
Nov 21 21:03:59 <philosopher> javispedro:  yea maemo browser i meant
Nov 21 21:04:20 <GeneralAntilles> Newegg claimed Mozilla developed the Maemo 5 browser.
Nov 21 21:04:30 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: You sound like RST38h
Nov 21 21:04:45 <javispedro> crashanddie: I know, but this shows Google cares about people using native C.
Nov 21 21:04:49 <lcuk> timeless, how best to advertise.  we know of it and use it on random intervals as developers, and when someone is asking code related questions we can guide them there
Nov 21 21:04:57 <Jaffa> crashanddie: Does it have direct access to any useful libraries, or do you have to go back up to Java and down again?
Nov 21 21:04:59 * timeless_mbp shrugs
Nov 21 21:05:07 <javispedro> else why they would ship an slow as molasses emulator when a quick x86 dalvik would've done a much better job?
Nov 21 21:05:10 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: wah
Nov 21 21:05:12 <crashanddie> Jaffa, nha, you actually get some useful libraries
Nov 21 21:05:36 <philosopher> GeneralAntilles:  why not java ?
Nov 21 21:05:38 <Jaffa> crashanddie: ah, cool.
Nov 21 21:05:52 <javispedro> Jaffa: at least you can output to fb0 without going back to Java. Sound's another story.
Nov 21 21:05:56 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, as official platform language, though?
Nov 21 21:06:11 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, support is fine, but turning the platform into Android is not a direction I want to see things go in.
Nov 21 21:06:12 <crashanddie> Jaffa, I've seen DMA, file access, and some low-level devices interaction, so I'm guessing it really depends on how well you manage to convince them to give you access really
Nov 21 21:06:33 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Official; don't mind. And I can see why Nokia wants to focus on Qt (with C++) as the official (with WRT) language.
Nov 21 21:06:52 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: And it won't anytime soon.
Nov 21 21:07:03 <Jaffa> Something of the same quality of PyMaemo but in Java would be nice, though.
Nov 21 21:07:05 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, clearly, but what I was responding to is important context here. :P
Nov 21 21:07:06 <lcuk> wrt runs javascript doesnt it *grin*
Nov 21 21:07:09 <crashanddie> Jaffa, are you going to work with C++ and Qt to have fun after coming back from work?
Nov 21 21:07:23 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: There's a lot of scrollback to read ;-)
Nov 21 21:07:37 <Jaffa> crashanddie: I think I might be focussing on the Python/Qt route a bit more ;-)
Nov 21 21:07:43 <crashanddie> guys, should I go for pizza, quarter pounder or anything else (not inspired on food)
Nov 21 21:07:50 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, then probably not worth continuing to discuss the subject.
Nov 21 21:08:03 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: I agreed with you <shrug/>
Nov 21 21:08:05 <Jaffa> crashanddie: pizza
Nov 21 21:08:30 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, pizza.
Nov 21 21:08:47 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, unless you're talking about a quality burger.
Nov 21 21:08:55 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, don't forget my request :P
Nov 21 21:09:08 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, not really
Nov 21 21:09:13 <crashanddie> but pizzas are shit in the UK
Nov 21 21:09:17 <lcuk> crashanddie, i second pizza
Nov 21 21:09:24 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, what's your request?
Nov 21 21:09:27 <lcuk> agreed, but burgers are worse
Nov 21 21:09:34 <GeneralAntilles> Sucks to be you guys.
Nov 21 21:09:40 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, no it doesn;t
Nov 21 21:09:48 * GeneralAntilles can find both excellent pizzas and excellent burgers within 5 minutes of here.
Nov 21 21:09:50 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, i'll be in aus soon, so fuck UK pizzas xD
Nov 21 21:10:06 <qwerty12_N810> crashanddie: He's just pissed at Florida having shit 3G
Nov 21 21:10:06 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, test my app with MAC OS :)
Nov 21 21:10:19 <lcuk> 3g, how old
Nov 21 21:10:22 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, and moskitos
Nov 21 21:10:24 <lcuk> i have 3.5g here
Nov 21 21:10:30 <RST38h> General: how about French crepes though?
Nov 21 21:10:30 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, and swamps
Nov 21 21:10:54 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, and no decent clubs or city
Nov 21 21:10:58 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, and no decent university
Nov 21 21:10:58 <lardman> crashanddie: no more pizzas for you mate, pies + sauce
Nov 21 21:10:58 <andre_> "i have 3.5g here" sounds like 3,5 grams of some drugs to me
Nov 21 21:11:01 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: Precisely! They don't even have that!
Nov 21 21:11:02 <lcuk> qwerty can you have the phone G rating, and up it to 6 or 7 G ?
Nov 21 21:11:06 <qwerty12_N810> crashanddie: Hehe
Nov 21 21:11:14 <lcuk> lol andre_ well what i just said makes it sound worse
Nov 21 21:11:45 <VDVsx> anyone with a PS3 and a N900 that can test something for me ? :P
Nov 21 21:11:48 <crashanddie> lardman, didn't catch the sense of that
Nov 21 21:12:04 <lardman> you ever been to Australia?
Nov 21 21:12:17 <crashanddie> lardman, do you mean "I need to only eat pies + sauce to remind me of the horrendous UK eating habits, or because that's what I'll be getting foreva"
Nov 21 21:12:19 <lardman> tho there are lots of Italian and Greek restaurants of course
Nov 21 21:12:24 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: Meh, I keep mine in 2G :p
Nov 21 21:12:29 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, oh, right, that.
Nov 21 21:12:29 <lardman> well that's all you'll be getting
Nov 21 21:12:30 <lardman> :)
Nov 21 21:12:39 <crashanddie> interesting
Nov 21 21:12:40 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, not a rush ;)
Nov 21 21:12:41 <qwerty12_N810> Ha
Nov 21 21:12:47 <crashanddie> lardman, nope, never been there xD
Nov 21 21:13:06 <lardman> pies + sauce are good though, staple, especially if you head down to the footie
Nov 21 21:13:27 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, good question, never looked.
Nov 21 21:15:08 <lardman> hmm, all this talk of pies and sauce has made /me hungry
Nov 21 21:15:35 <crashanddie> Hahaha
Nov 21 21:15:38 <qwerty12_N810> lardman: With some wine, of course?
Nov 21 21:15:41 <crashanddie> Just checked my bank statement
Nov 21 21:15:54 <crashanddie> Last week I complained that some website charged too much for the use of the credit card
Nov 21 21:15:59 <lardman> qwerty12_N810: no, at the footie would have to be some beer
Nov 21 21:16:00 <crashanddie> they just refunded 20p
Nov 21 21:16:19 <asdm> I need some help getting a usb device Elm327 to work with N770 and Carman running in host mode
Nov 21 21:16:25 <qwerty12_N810> crashanddie: Treat yourself: Buy 20 sherbets
Nov 21 21:16:49 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, a sherbet is 1p?#
Nov 21 21:17:01 <qwerty12_N810> crashanddie: Round here, yeah :p
Nov 21 21:17:04 <lardman> how old are you qwerty12_N810, sound like you're from the 50s!
Nov 21 21:17:20 <lardman> back in my day a sherbet was 1/2d
Nov 21 21:17:23 <lardman> etc
Nov 21 21:17:29 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, dude, you realise that when they go through the defrosting process of a freezer, that is not the recommended way of making sherbet?
Nov 21 21:17:37 <javispedro> hmm.. crepes...
Nov 21 21:17:39 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, oh, and btw, the actual spelling is sorbet
Nov 21 21:17:44 <lardman> no
Nov 21 21:17:51 <lardman> different thing
Nov 21 21:18:04 <qwerty12_N810> crashanddie: Gah, who said sweets were good for you anyway? :)
Nov 21 21:18:09 <crashanddie> Sherbet, an American term for a frozen dessert like sorbet, but containing a small amount of dairy.
Nov 21 21:18:19 <lardman> what do the Yanks know?
Nov 21 21:18:25 <lardman> they call trousers pants
Nov 21 21:18:27 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, bugzilla hate.
Nov 21 21:18:30 <GeneralAntilles> Gotta love Talk.
Nov 21 21:18:39 <lardman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherbet_%28powder%29
Nov 21 21:18:50 <lardman> that's the real deal, sherbet
Nov 21 21:19:05 <javispedro> oh, the sun's java vs android's java discussion is still ongoing.
Nov 21 21:19:05 <crashanddie> lardman, oh
Nov 21 21:19:23 * lardman heads for the bottle again
Nov 21 21:19:26 <lardman> :)
Nov 21 21:19:40 <GeneralAntilles> andre_, I'd've slaughtered people in that thread by now.
Nov 21 21:20:25 <qwerty12_N810> Quote (C) Internet Tough Guy
Nov 21 21:21:45 <andre_> GeneralAntilles, no, why? I'm patient (some people call it stubborn though)
Nov 21 21:22:11 <crashanddie> andre_, being certain that you're right and "waiting for people to join your line of thinking" isn't patience
Nov 21 21:22:39 <GeneralAntilles> andre_, irrational, unconstructive people irritate me.
Nov 21 21:23:00 <derf> GeneralAntilles: You'd better stay off the internet, then.
Nov 21 21:23:05 <genewitch> RST38h: you mentioned earlier something about lemmings leaving tmo when they got their n900s; what did you mean? is tmo t-mobile?
Nov 21 21:23:07 <GeneralAntilles> derf, Talk, anyway.
Nov 21 21:23:19 <GeneralAntilles> talk.maemo.org
Nov 21 21:23:24 <genewitch> Oh
Nov 21 21:23:31 <asdm> rfcomm -i ohci5 listen 0 1
Nov 21 21:23:31 <asdm>  <- can this code tell bluetooth config files to use USB device as a bluetooth connection >?
Nov 21 21:23:45 <genewitch> i just want an n900. i can't stand having to wait this long for something that i should have been able to get a week ago
Nov 21 21:23:47 <andre_> crashanddie, thanks :-D
Nov 21 21:23:49 <GeneralAntilles> andre_, bug #6272. Off to a fine start, I see.
Nov 21 21:23:50 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6272 User-friendliness fail
Nov 21 21:24:09 <GeneralAntilles> andre_, somebody didn't read the bug writing guidelines, I see.
Nov 21 21:24:11 <RST38h> genewitch: talk.maemo.org
Nov 21 21:24:17 <andre_> i'll wait until monday to triage that
Nov 21 21:24:26 <andre_> want some cool rantings first ;-)
Nov 21 21:24:27 <genewitch> RST38h: oh. i see. lemmings.
Nov 21 21:25:26 <RST38h> General: BTW, I found a relevant quote
Nov 21 21:25:38 <ShadowJK> genewitch, where does your "should" and a week ago come from? :-)
Nov 21 21:25:43 <RST38h> General: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar-log
Nov 21 21:25:47 <RST38h> General: check it out
Nov 21 21:26:34 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, ahaha, that's awesome.
Nov 21 21:26:38 <VDVsx> andre_, that reminds me that I've something for you :P
Nov 21 21:26:46 <RST38h> General: Anyone familiar? =)
Nov 21 21:30:26 <andre_> VDVsx, chocolate? yum yum
Nov 21 21:31:01 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: Link me to this bugzilla hate thread.
Nov 21 21:31:28 <GeneralAntilles> zerojay, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34878
Nov 21 21:31:34 <GeneralAntilles> Go forth and destrooooy!
Nov 21 21:32:04 <andre_> hell yeah
Nov 21 21:32:39 <zerojay> Hahaha.. I think krisse is just trolling at this point.
Nov 21 21:33:04 <javispedro> I have to wonder how can 4 pages of posts be written in something as plain as the bugzilla bug entry form?
Nov 21 21:33:17 <javispedro> in a single day!
Nov 21 21:33:22 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: lol, of course. This was the guy who thought Nokia needed to bring out Netbooks with Maemo on 'em...
Nov 21 21:34:10 <GeneralAntilles> krisse's a woman. ;)
Nov 21 21:34:33 <qwerty12_N810> s/guy/lady/
Nov 21 21:34:34 <infobot> qwerty12_N810 meant: zerojay: lol, of course. This was the lady who thought Nokia needed to bring out Netbooks with Maemo on 'em...
Nov 21 21:35:11 <zerojay> "asks for more information than the user needs to give"? She doesn't have a clue how bug tracking works. Providing all the information possible is important because while the user may not see why some piece of info is important, the developer might.
Nov 21 21:35:33 <andre_> feel free to comment :-P
Nov 21 21:35:44 <zerojay> Ooooh, believe me - I plan on it.
Nov 21 21:36:10 <GeneralAntilles> lol, zerojay's gonna be the grump in my place.
Nov 21 21:36:43 <sp3000> generally, forums can be a fine place to discuss bugs for people who can't handle bugzillas
Nov 21 21:37:18 <sp3000> I'm sure some accommodations between them can be made but in the general case I think it's asking for magic
Nov 21 21:37:19 <GeneralAntilles> sp3000, we've had lots of people volunteer to transcribe bugs reported on the forums into useful bugs for bugzilla
Nov 21 21:37:31 <GeneralAntilles> but, much like the people who volunteered to do the same for the wiki, nothing ever came of it.
Nov 21 21:37:42 <andre_> true
Nov 21 21:37:59 * Jaffa 's read tmo :-(
Nov 21 21:38:21 <qwerty12_N810> Bad Jaffa
Nov 21 21:38:31 <zerojay> It's also hard to do that when the bugs mentioned on the forums are nothing but vague "it doesn't work" all the time.
Nov 21 21:38:45 <Jaffa> I even tried to limit it to a selection of threads in Community, Development and Applications.
Nov 21 21:39:11 <sp3000> zerojay: yeah, but forums can be more convenient for the prodding
Nov 21 21:40:02 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, junkie.
Nov 21 21:40:07 <qwerty12_N810> Jaffa: Block it on your router, and donate £1 to [charity of your choosing] everytime you try to go on it
Nov 21 21:40:32 <Jaffa> qwerty12_N810: We're going to buy Peter Kay's DVD single of his all-star animated coolness for Children in Need.
Nov 21 21:40:41 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: I'd closed it until your Bugzilla hate thread
Nov 21 21:43:12 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, muahaha!
Nov 21 21:43:25 <Jaffa> Cut me off, man!
Nov 21 21:44:49 <zerojay> I've barely been on talk in the last week or so and shit like that makes me feel like I haven't missed much.
Nov 21 21:45:10 <Jaffa> zerojay: I only realy went back to post http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34888
Nov 21 21:45:25 <Jaffa> my "someone-else read tmo, so I don't have to" idea.
Nov 21 21:45:53 <zerojay> Yeah, I think I saw you say something about it on twitter.
Nov 21 21:45:59 <Jaffa> yeah
Nov 21 21:46:14 <Jaffa> and -community, and pmo. Spammer <= me
Nov 21 21:46:36 * Jaffa offs to watch a West Wing.
Nov 21 21:49:32 <GeneralAntilles> Why do people want to distribute OSS through Ovi?
Nov 21 21:49:56 <GeneralAntilles> What qgil seems to be suggesting is that Extras is going to take a rather severe back seat.
Nov 21 21:50:13 <qwerty12_N810> GeneralAntilles: With Nokia blatently promoting the Store more?
Nov 21 21:50:31 <GeneralAntilles> Especially sad since it DOESN'T EVEN WORK
Nov 21 21:50:42 <lbt> GeneralAntilles: I do
Nov 21 21:50:50 <lbt> I want to sell Shopper on ovi
Nov 21 21:51:07 <lbt> the plebs will love it and pay me
Nov 21 21:51:10 <asdm> Anyone ever get N770 And CarMAn to work with USB ELM 327 ?
Nov 21 21:51:11 <lbt> sorry, customers
Nov 21 21:51:28 <lbt> and I am dead serious BTW
Nov 21 21:56:49 * Stskeeps should look into corporate liability insurance
Nov 21 21:57:44 <andre_> Stskeeps, also thought about that a year ago. But I can't remember whether I signed a contract or not :)
Nov 21 21:59:42 <Stskeeps> andre_: were you employed or own company?
Nov 21 21:59:44 <Stskeeps> (forgot)
Nov 21 22:01:50 <Stskeeps> cos that probably determines if it's you or someone else taking care of that :P
Nov 21 22:03:48 <GeneralAntilles> OpenIsmus
Nov 21 22:04:22 <qwerty12_N810> I thought he worked in a chocolate factory?
Nov 21 22:05:08 <zgold> What is the preferred way to play through g-streamer on the commadn line in maemo 5?
Nov 21 22:05:59 <Chani> :/ I have horrible luck with n-series and chargers
Nov 21 22:06:07 <Chani> my n900 is having trouble charging now
Nov 21 22:06:17 <Chani> I finally got it to turn on, but it says that battery is low
Nov 21 22:06:33 <andre_> Stskeeps, I'm employed
Nov 21 22:06:56 <andre_> qwerty12_N810, sssh, don't tell them about all my other jobs!
Nov 21 22:07:07 <mikhas> Chani, do you recharge via USB?
Nov 21 22:07:11 <Chani> mikhas: yes
Nov 21 22:07:21 <qwerty12_N810> andre_: Ohh, right. Sorry!
Nov 21 22:07:34 <crashanddie> Jaffa, MoSCoW?
Nov 21 22:07:35 <mikhas> well, you might want to try via power outlet
Nov 21 22:07:46 <Chani> aha! got it this tim,,, but it'll probably stop again in a minute
Nov 21 22:07:48 <mikhas> it could be that your USB port is not providing enough power for a recharge
Nov 21 22:07:58 <Chani> mikhas: don't have one of those chargers
Nov 21 22:08:02 <andre_> qwerty12_N810, and never ever mention my microsoft position. you know those open source facists...
Nov 21 22:08:03 <Chani> all I have is the usb cable
Nov 21 22:08:15 <Chani> mikhas: also, it worked fine for the last week
Nov 21 22:08:16 <mikhas> ok, try other USB ports then
Nov 21 22:08:25 <mikhas> and check your BIOS whether you ramp up power supply
Nov 21 22:08:30 <mikhas> hmph
Nov 21 22:08:36 <Chani> just this morning I woke up and it was frozen, thinking it was still charging...
Nov 21 22:08:36 <mikhas> <= out of ideas then
Nov 21 22:08:38 <andre_> Chani, how did you get the device if you don't have a normal non-usb charger? :)
Nov 21 22:08:55 <Chani> andre_: from a teacher. he had two devices and only one wall charger
Nov 21 22:09:04 <andre_> Chani, tried removing the battery and wait for a day?
Nov 21 22:09:06 <andre_> ah i see
Nov 21 22:09:19 * andre_ wonders whether his idea makes sense at all
Nov 21 22:09:20 <mikhas> 1. go to your teacher's house 2. steal the wall charger
Nov 21 22:09:46 <Chani> I have problems with my n810 too, I have to jiggle the cable a lot to get it to charge, then if I touch it again it might stop
Nov 21 22:09:46 <sp3000> (if it's attached to a wall, take the wall too, it may come in handy)
Nov 21 22:09:49 <andre_> that list is missing to take the food from the fridge
Nov 21 22:09:56 <Chani> hehehe
Nov 21 22:10:00 * GeneralAntilles puts andre_ on a stake.
Nov 21 22:10:11 <mikhas> it's an open-ended list =)
Nov 21 22:10:18 <qwerty12_N810> 1. Download porn 2. Threaten to put it on teacher's account if he does not give the charger
Nov 21 22:10:25 <Chani> aargh, it stopped charging when I put it down again
Nov 21 22:10:44 <Stskeeps> Chani: typical issue with that charger plug
Nov 21 22:11:14 * sp3000 typically loses with cables before plugs
Nov 21 22:11:15 * Chani jiggles the cable again
Nov 21 22:11:42 <andre_> qwerty12_N810, if you could elaborate the first step via /prvmsg - tried so many times and never found it in this internet thingy
Nov 21 22:11:46 <Chani> *sigh* it works when I'm touching the cable...
Nov 21 22:12:21 <qwerty12_N810> andre_: Well, it all starts with Lemonparty...
Nov 21 22:12:36 <andre_> Chani, yeah, sometimes technical stuff behaves like women. just be friendly to them and show some love.
Nov 21 22:14:10 <GeneralAntilles> Ooh, sweet, HP's got a thin client with that 1.2GHz Marvell.
Nov 21 22:15:56 <luke-jr> O.o
Nov 21 22:16:45 <SpeedEvil>  I now have a sort-of-prototype application - well - at least the outline of one - for a barcode based inventory thing for my desktop. (possible to later port to the phone). I want to integrate a kitchen scale to this. Is there any project anyone can point me at to read 7 segment displays?
Nov 21 22:17:20 <luke-jr> ...
Nov 21 22:17:22 <SpeedEvil> (I know there are USB scales, however I don't have one)
Nov 21 22:18:25 <crashanddie> anyone know what Jaffa meant by "MoSCoW prioritisation?"
Nov 21 22:18:37 <zerojay> andre does, I think.
Nov 21 22:18:47 <andre_> actually: no.
Nov 21 22:19:22 <andre_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoSCoW
Nov 21 22:25:06 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, failed to connect.
Nov 21 22:25:23 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, bad Mac :P
Nov 21 22:25:24 <SpeedEvil> Talk lacks something at the moment. It should have an auto-generated youtube channel for each thread, where everyone can add video comments.
Nov 21 22:25:33 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, did you removed the previous pairings ?
Nov 21 22:25:34 <zerojay> lol
Nov 21 22:25:36 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Nov 21 22:25:55 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, which opinion did you use ?
Nov 21 22:26:02 <GeneralAntilles> Me need a bot to mirror -1 comments that match keyword searches to Talk.
Nov 21 22:26:05 <GeneralAntilles> (from slashdot)
Nov 21 22:26:14 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, the opinion that you suck.
Nov 21 22:26:51 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, I know :P , -->Option
Nov 21 22:27:56 <GeneralAntilles> Hang on, let me delete the pairings again.
Nov 21 22:28:44 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, use the third option, if it fails to connect go back and choose the second (reconnect)
Nov 21 22:29:33 <GeneralAntilles> OK, it works.
Nov 21 22:29:38 <qwerty12_N810> Option 4: Ditch the Mac
Nov 21 22:29:42 <GeneralAntilles> Why doesn't the hardware keyboard work?
Nov 21 22:29:59 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, same problem as xev and Qole's stuff
Nov 21 22:30:04 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, 'course the layout is all wrong.
Nov 21 22:30:04 <VDVsx> hintfocus
Nov 21 22:30:11 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, qwerty12 has a patch for that, right?
Nov 21 22:30:29 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, not for the efl LIB :(
Nov 21 22:30:39 <GeneralAntilles> Ah
Nov 21 22:30:48 <qwerty12_N810> VDVsx: Ship xprop with BlueMaemo =)
Nov 21 22:30:51 * qwerty12_N810 hides
Nov 21 22:30:51 <GeneralAntilles> Well, my issue is that the layouts don't match.
Nov 21 22:30:52 * VDVsx has to kick someone
Nov 21 22:31:37 <VDVsx> qwerty12_N810, in the worse case I can do a gtk or Qt main loop that inject the keys into EFL
Nov 21 22:32:41 <lardman> night chaps, cu tomorrow
Nov 21 22:33:26 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, OK, got some bugs to file.
Nov 21 22:33:51 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, as I said the UI is unfinished, but shot :P
Nov 21 22:33:58 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, what version is this?
Nov 21 22:34:18 <VDVsx> 0.3.9
Nov 21 22:35:38 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, can you move the settings and about up into the menu?
Nov 21 22:36:14 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, I can, but this is not GTK+ :)
Nov 21 22:36:29 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, well, it's trying to look like it. :P
Nov 21 22:37:25 <VDVsx> more or less, lol
Nov 21 22:37:52 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, not being able to get to about until you've connected to something is irritating.
Nov 21 22:39:18 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, true, I've plans to make hildon-like menu, but first I need to finish the 'default' UI
Nov 21 22:39:40 <VDVsx> actually a did one, but very ugly
Nov 21 22:39:47 * VDVsx needs wazd help :p
Nov 21 22:41:47 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, ah, I've a service record that support the multimedia keys/email/browser ...., only need a way to assign them (more UI work :()
Nov 21 22:41:55 <Jaffa> crashanddie: Wikipedia link above is accurate: Must/Should/Could/Won't
Nov 21 22:42:05 <VDVsx> better than assign p or space
Nov 21 22:42:47 <GeneralAntilles> Don't think they'll work in OS X.
Nov 21 22:43:06 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, yes they work, according to one of my testers
Nov 21 22:44:19 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, "volume up/down, mute, play/pause, stop, next track, previous track all work as expected on both systems." XP and Mac OS 10.5.8
Nov 21 22:46:24 <wazd> VDVsx: who summoned me? :D
Nov 21 22:46:43 * GeneralAntilles throws holy water on wazd and runs.
Nov 21 22:46:57 <VDVsx> wazd, was GeneralAntilles
Nov 21 22:47:04 <VDVsx> w:P
Nov 21 22:47:05 <wazd> Harrr!
Nov 21 22:48:11 <wazd> VDVsx: so? :)
Nov 21 22:48:43 <Macer> n900 out yet?
Nov 21 22:48:44 <Macer> :)
Nov 21 22:48:57 <Macer> i was going to buy one this week but went out and bought a ton of clothes instead haha
Nov 21 22:48:58 <VDVsx> wazd, I need more stuff for BlueMaemo, but lets finish the essential first :)
Nov 21 22:49:06 <wazd> Macer: nono, is n900 shipped yet? :D
Nov 21 22:50:40 <GeneralAntilles> Macer, Chicago and NY flagship stores supposedly have them.
Nov 21 22:51:12 <SpeedEvil> Also allegedly UK orders from nokia.co.uk are going out monday
Nov 21 22:52:59 <lbt> SpeedEvil: oooh
Nov 21 22:53:27 <SpeedEvil> but that was from talk - so who knows. (though the nokia.co.uk site itself says 'from 23rd'
Nov 21 22:53:41 <SpeedEvil> (no change in order status though I ordered on the 20th)
Nov 21 22:53:49 <ShadowJK> .fi store orders mostly went out yesterday, allegedly. Alot of people who managed to obtain UPS tracking though, say UPS is moving the packages the wrong direction, away from .fi o_0
Nov 21 22:53:51 <alterego> MEEMO
Nov 21 22:54:09 <alterego> cocksqueezers
Nov 21 22:54:17 <ShadowJK> I'm afraid to check if my visa still says -800 or if nokia shop failed to charge it
Nov 21 22:54:23 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Nov 21 22:54:49 <GeneralAntilles> I still need to re-order with DDP
Nov 21 22:54:58 <GeneralAntilles> My credit card company hates Forum Nokia's BS.
Nov 21 22:56:25 <cghouly> Hello everyone. I was wondering, is anyone working on porting mauku 2 and/or microfeed to diablo?
Nov 21 22:59:13 <wazd> VDVsx: can I go sleep now? :)
Nov 21 22:59:31 <VDVsx> wazd, no
Nov 21 22:59:32 <VDVsx> lol
Nov 21 22:59:46 <wazd> VDVsx: damn :)\
Nov 21 22:59:53 <VDVsx> wazd, now you can :P
Nov 21 23:00:06 <VDVsx> but only 3 hours
Nov 21 23:00:13 <VDVsx> is enough for you
Nov 21 23:00:23 <wazd> VDVsx: kk my lord :D
Nov 21 23:00:28 <VDVsx> :D
Nov 21 23:02:42 <kirma> speedevil: as shadowjk told... I guess large portion of european preorders have got shipping from rotterdam on friday evening
Nov 21 23:02:56 <kirma> mine is Köln/Cologne now
Nov 21 23:03:01 <kirma> +in
Nov 21 23:03:13 <ShadowJK> I ordered rather late, and the damn website was so broken I couldn't register a username, so I didn't get any emails..
Nov 21 23:03:20 <ShadowJK> except the first 3
Nov 21 23:03:20 <SpeedEvil> No charge yet.
Nov 21 23:03:28 <javispedro> save for DDP orders, which have been lost in cyberspace.
Nov 21 23:03:44 <ShadowJK> And Nokia Shop FI said they ran out of devices due to high demand and couldn't fulfill every order :/
Nov 21 23:05:32 <kirma> Nokia Shop FI gave indirect impression that they would have the devices in Finland, but they were really in Rotterdam (port?), and I think some non-Finn had identical tracking information indicating that the shipment there was much larger than just Finns... so others in other countries might be missing some too
Nov 21 23:05:34 <mikhas> but that's good signs, no?
Nov 21 23:06:04 <mikhas> high demand, I mean
Nov 21 23:06:24 <ShadowJK> Well at this point the devices going to fi aren't going anywhere else because no other place has crippled the keyboard in the same way, right ;)
Nov 21 23:06:29 <kirma> I'm confident it'll end up at work on monday to me, unless UPS delivery guy fumbles locally at Helsinki...
Nov 21 23:07:01 <ShadowJK> I think I picked standard delivery, I don't remember well. I hope that means Itella and not UPS
Nov 21 23:07:17 <kirma> I would certainly have appreciated it getting shipped on thursday and reaching me friday, but it's not such a huge issue it would tip over my world
Nov 21 23:08:07 <ShadowJK> The devices sitting in rotterdam kinda explains why they started shipping so soon, to account for the extra time it takes?
Nov 21 23:09:51 <kirma> Rotterdam would also indicate that they really did ship it by *ship* from Korea
Nov 21 23:10:23 <kirma> how long that takes...
Nov 21 23:12:20 <ShadowJK> lol
Nov 21 23:12:26 <ShadowJK> 2-3 weeks I guess?
Nov 21 23:12:49 <ShadowJK> what's that other big port in germany?
Nov 21 23:12:54 <ShadowJK> up some river iirc
Nov 21 23:13:15 <SpeedEvil> rhine
Nov 21 23:13:17 <kirma> netherlands, biggest port in europe
Nov 21 23:13:19 <qwerty12_N810> Hamburg?
Nov 21 23:13:21 <range> Hamburg. But that's really not as close as Rotterdam.
Nov 21 23:13:50 <range> SpeedEvil: Further up the rhine is stupid if you need a central hub. Next large harbour behind Rotterdam is Duisburg.
Nov 21 23:13:51 <till-> bremerhaven
Nov 21 23:14:11 <till-> :)
Nov 21 23:14:28 <Stskeeps> if from korea, why not italy/france?
Nov 21 23:14:29 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 21 23:14:33 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - I was trying to remember my german geography.
Nov 21 23:14:43 <SpeedEvil> Which comes largely from the '1632' series of novels.
Nov 21 23:14:45 <Stskeeps> if it goes through the canal down in egypt
Nov 21 23:15:01 <till-> but hamburg harbor is much bigger
Nov 21 23:15:03 <range> Stskeeps: Yeah, I'm wondering about that too, as it has to go through the mediterranean sea.
Nov 21 23:15:21 <range> So maybe not by ship after all?
Nov 21 23:15:27 * SpeedEvil ponders the _real_ reason for the shipping delays.
Nov 21 23:15:28 <ShadowJK> Stskeeps, sea is most economical
Nov 21 23:15:44 <SpeedEvil> It's a tragic reverse of the Spinal Tap moment.
Nov 21 23:16:04 <SpeedEvil> The screen is in fact 3.5m, not 3.5".
Nov 21 23:16:31 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: i'd pay for a 3.5m N900.
Nov 21 23:16:45 <Stskeeps> if it came at the price suggested in DDP, that'd be great, too ;)
Nov 21 23:16:56 <range> Rotterdam seems to be one of UPS' central hubs.
Nov 21 23:17:48 <andre_> maybe some Somali pirates now all have N900s and that's the real reason why we wait ;-)
Nov 21 23:18:27 <kirma> some page says that daesan-rotterdam shipment would take a tad over a month
Nov 21 23:18:49 <range> But UPS is bleh. Looks like taking off half a day if I want to receive the thing at home.
Nov 21 23:19:13 <kirma> that would be great joy since vast portion of somali don't even know how to read their own language
Nov 21 23:20:16 <andre_> i'm not talking about the average Somali (whatever that means since the country does not exist), but educated pirates.
Nov 21 23:20:57 <SpeedEvil> Somalia doesn't exist?
Nov 21 23:21:15 <kirma> where they have got their education if the country has supposedly been in constant civil war for like twenty years?
Nov 21 23:21:17 <kirma> :I
Nov 21 23:21:23 <kirma> (yeah, offtopic)
Nov 21 23:21:37 <qwerty12_N810> Somalia's awesome. I mean, where else in the world can you go to Puntland?
Nov 21 23:21:51 <andre_> true that!
Nov 21 23:22:15 <andre_> kirma, just because there is civil war in parts of the country does not mean that people are uneducated ;-)
Nov 21 23:22:34 <SpeedEvil> Or that it doesn't exist.
Nov 21 23:22:37 <andre_> pirates do contact ship owners in english or french i assume.
Nov 21 23:22:52 <andre_> yes, it exists on some maps. but that's all.
Nov 21 23:23:18 <mikhas> they needed the n900s to extend their pirate business
Nov 21 23:23:25 <kirma> I have to say that the pirates haven't really worked too hard on giving that civilised, highly educated image...
Nov 21 23:23:52 <andre_> well, maybe that's the media here?
Nov 21 23:24:51 <andre_> they probably didn't start piracy because they were bored.
Nov 21 23:24:59 <kirma> I actually think european media is gentle to them, but they're completely uninterested to spin their own ultra-selfish actions in believably positive light.
Nov 21 23:25:07 <andre_> and they probably don't have good boats and weapons because they are stupid.
Nov 21 23:25:44 <andre_> sure. but why should they care about what others think, if nobody cared about somalia for 15 years? :-)
Nov 21 23:26:37 <andre_> if european ships take away your fish and dump their waste in front of your coast i'd also think about how to pay back.
Nov 21 23:27:09 <andre_> (still it's both criminal of course. it's not that I want to say that it's good what they do.)
Nov 21 23:29:03 <kirma> if you look at historical records, you can see that fishing has never been actually big part of society in somalia. and I doubt if any country has right to demand that other countries should come to solve their own problems, and threat with trouble if they don't.
Nov 21 23:29:58 <kirma> but I'd say: back to the topic, political discussions are usually not so fruitful...
Nov 21 23:30:04 <andre_> true :-)
Nov 21 23:30:31 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah! Let's talk about how much bugzilla sucks instead. :P
Nov 21 23:30:51 <kirma> at least that's politics that somehow touches us ;)
Nov 21 23:31:02 <qwerty12_N810> Yeah, that bug"master" even more so! ;P
Nov 21 23:31:11 <kirma> anyway... bedtime ->
Nov 21 23:31:28 <andre_> GeneralAntilles, tell me, tell me! :-P
Nov 21 23:31:32 <range> GeneralAntilles: Other bug trackers suck too, at least bugzilla has the features :)
Nov 21 23:31:42 <andre_> qwerty12_N810, who's that sucker?
Nov 21 23:32:22 <GeneralAntilles> range, sarcasm context: bug #6272
Nov 21 23:32:23 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6272 User-friendliness fail
Nov 21 23:32:42 <qwerty12_N810> andre_: Erm, *looks around*. Maybe I can get him or her to reveal themselves with a piece of chocolate
Nov 21 23:33:34 <GeneralAntilles> Them, qwerty12_N810, _them_.
Nov 21 23:33:52 <range> GeneralAntilles: Ah, the Reverend. Well, yes, for beginners Mantis seems to be more user friendly.
Nov 21 23:33:59 <range> For bug takers, it really isn't.
Nov 21 23:34:13 * qwerty12_N810 growls at the pedant that is GeneralAntilles 
Nov 21 23:34:42 * GeneralAntilles thwaps qwerty12_N810 on the muzzle.
Nov 21 23:37:28 <Jaffa> All bug trackers suck; and there are valid points in the tmo thread which andre_ says are fixed in a later Bugzilla build.
Nov 21 23:39:02 <GeneralAntilles> Indeed
Nov 21 23:39:11 * GeneralAntilles has a few ideas about the guided form.
Nov 21 23:40:05 <andre_> i should check out the guided form in the 3.4 landfill test installation once my workmachine is usable again (upgrading distro currently)
Nov 21 23:40:47 <GeneralAntilles> andre_, what are those grayed out strings that disappear when you click a text field called?
Nov 21 23:40:50 <GeneralAntilles> We need some of those.
Nov 21 23:41:18 <andre_> ah. good question.
Nov 21 23:42:31 <GeneralAntilles> Short strings to indicate what should be in a field.
Nov 21 23:42:51 <andre_> yes, i understand
Nov 21 23:43:19 <GeneralAntilles> andre_, yeah, not sure why I typed that.
Nov 21 23:43:27 <GeneralAntilles> I think I was going to come up with a good example, but it didn't happen.
Nov 21 23:43:33 * GeneralAntilles is distracted watching The Office.
Nov 21 23:43:44 <andre_> US version, I assume?
Nov 21 23:44:51 <GeneralAntilles> Indeed
Nov 21 23:46:16 <javispedro> are you trying to track the N900 as they're shipped through the world?
Nov 21 23:46:36 <javispedro> crazy, crasy, crazy stuff :)
Nov 21 23:47:02 <GeneralAntilles> andre_, tooltips could also be handy.
Nov 21 23:47:44 <andre_> if people get it that they exist
Nov 21 23:47:45 <Stskeeps> javispedro: any luck with the new shipment?
Nov 21 23:47:47 <GeneralAntilles> andre_, you know those little Web 2.0 pixelart question marks they put by form items?
Nov 21 23:47:55 <javispedro> Stskeeps: no, same results...
Nov 21 23:47:59 <Stskeeps> javispedro: k
Nov 21 23:48:33 <andre_> oh yeah!
Nov 21 23:52:29 <timeless_mbp> oh!
Nov 21 23:52:40 <timeless_mbp> did anyone take any new photos of the nokia store in HEL?
Nov 21 23:53:24 * andre_ wonders whether there is a Nokia store in this town too that he could annoy :-P
Nov 21 23:53:45 <timeless_mbp> andre_: there's one in Chicago, IL, one in NYC
Nov 21 23:53:55 <timeless_mbp> iirc there's one in Tokyo
Nov 21 23:54:09 <andre_> okay. sounds like very few towns
Nov 21 23:54:18 <timeless_mbp> iirc there are <10
Nov 21 23:55:03 <timeless_mbp> http://www.flagship.nokia.com/
Nov 21 23:55:25 <timeless_mbp> 9 in fact
Nov 21 23:55:29 <timeless_mbp> so precisely <10
Nov 21 23:56:04 <timeless_mbp> wait
Nov 21 23:56:07 <timeless_mbp> omigosh
Nov 21 23:56:11 <timeless_mbp> Nokia = Stupid
Nov 21 23:56:19 <timeless_mbp> they have a flagship store in .br
Nov 21 23:56:27 <timeless_mbp> and no one thought to warn them that Ovi was taken?
Nov 21 23:57:18 <luke-jr> ?
Nov 21 23:58:47 <timeless_mbp> http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE58N6QT20090924
Nov 21 23:59:07 <sp3000> timeless_mbp: did you notice the mexican bit is misspelled in the fp flash
Nov 21 23:59:21 <timeless_mbp> the site was pure flash, my eyes glazed over
Nov 22 00:00:02 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: that's impressive
Nov 22 00:00:04 <timeless_mbp> 3points
Nov 22 00:00:22 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia sure loves Flash.
Nov 22 00:00:40 * timeless_mbp wonders if they actually spell the store name "Cuidad [sic] de México"
Nov 22 00:00:46 <GeneralAntilles> Nice
Nov 22 00:00:58 <timeless_mbp> credit to sp3000
Nov 22 00:01:41 <timeless_mbp> consistency @nokia is um...
Nov 22 00:01:49 <timeless_mbp> incredibly bad when it comes to es-MX
Nov 22 00:02:01 <GeneralAntilles> Incredibly bad when it comes to anything.
Nov 22 00:02:18 <GeneralAntilles> Except, perhaps, for being inconsistent.
Nov 22 00:04:17 <timeless_mbp> nice
Nov 22 00:04:27 <timeless_mbp> the spanish video has random English text
Nov 22 00:05:41 <timeless_mbp> btw, how does nokia spell 'en es ee arr eye ee ess' ?
Nov 22 00:07:22 <lcuk> timeless, they spell it the same, with extra spaces occasionally dont they
Nov 22 00:07:37 <lcuk> that hurt my head more than the stuff ive been doin today
Nov 22 00:07:52 * lcuk won tho
Nov 22 00:07:57 <timeless_mbp> Nseries or nseries?
Nov 22 00:08:29 <lcuk> ahhh case sensitive
Nov 22 00:09:00 <timeless_mbp> wow, the nokia store has n800s and n810s
Nov 22 00:09:18 <lcuk> id tell you to go look on the site
Nov 22 00:09:25 <lcuk> but you will find all variations no doubt lol
Nov 22 00:09:34 <lcuk> o_O really?
Nov 22 00:09:40 <lcuk> 800s still?
Nov 22 00:10:36 <timeless_mbp> dunno
Nov 22 00:10:45 <timeless_mbp> presumably they never update their cr*p
Nov 22 00:13:09 <luke-jr> what price?
Nov 22 00:13:24 <timeless_mbp> sorry, never been south of the border
Nov 22 00:13:39 <timeless_mbp> well, i've been to http://www.thesouthoftheborder.com/
Nov 22 00:18:49 <tad_> tis quiet
Nov 22 00:20:10 <sgbirch> Everyone is asleep dreaming of n900
Nov 22 00:20:24 <Xisdibik> sgbirch: wrong, im day dreaming of mine
Nov 22 00:20:39 <Macer> I'M IN CHICAGO
Nov 22 00:20:50 <Macer> woop! let me go downtown and see if they have one :D
Nov 22 00:21:03 <Xisdibik> Macer: how do you like living in the city with the highest homicide rate in the US? ;)
Nov 22 00:21:18 <Macer> really? we made the highest huh?
Nov 22 00:21:26 <Macer> usually it is a  contest with NYC
Nov 22 00:21:26 <Macer> haha
Nov 22 00:21:34 <Xisdibik> i think so
Nov 22 00:21:35 <Macer> i know we have the highest sales tax
Nov 22 00:21:40 <tad_> n900
Nov 22 00:21:41 <Macer> Xisdibik: year isn't over yet ;)
Nov 22 00:21:41 <Xisdibik> how high is it there?
Nov 22 00:21:44 <tad_> id like one
Nov 22 00:21:51 <Macer> usually we are neck and neck with NYC
Nov 22 00:21:57 <Macer> ironically enough
Nov 22 00:22:05 <Macer> people here think it is something to be proud of haha
Nov 22 00:22:05 <Xisdibik> how high is the sales tax there?
Nov 22 00:22:13 <Macer> 10.25%
Nov 22 00:22:19 <Xisdibik> damn lol
Nov 22 00:22:23 <Xisdibik> yea its like 9.75% here
Nov 22 00:22:29 <Macer> Xisdibik: yeah... it's rough ;)
Nov 22 00:22:32 <Macer> highest in the US
Nov 22 00:22:47 <Xisdibik> we compete with NYC for most expensive housing market though
Nov 22 00:22:47 <Xisdibik> :D
Nov 22 00:23:03 <Macer> we don't.... nyc is outrageous.. like CA market
Nov 22 00:23:03 <Xisdibik> we being the area i am
Nov 22 00:23:10 * Xisdibik lives in CA
Nov 22 00:23:17 <Macer> i  never understood that either. the houses in CA are of such disgusting quality
Nov 22 00:23:23 <Macer> like... lego building
Nov 22 00:23:27 <Xisdibik> Macer: depends where you go
Nov 22 00:23:29 <Xisdibik> my moms house is really nice
Nov 22 00:23:32 <Macer> i was in SD
Nov 22 00:23:34 <Xisdibik> as is my grandmothers
Nov 22 00:23:37 <Xisdibik> well thats Socal :P
Nov 22 00:23:40 <Macer> and they had that lego crap
Nov 22 00:23:41 <Macer> :)
Nov 22 00:23:44 <Xisdibik> the real housing market expenses are in SF bay area
Nov 22 00:23:48 <Macer> where they could put a building together in 1 week
Nov 22 00:24:07 <Macer> with fabricated bricks
Nov 22 00:24:08 <sgbirch> Try 17.5% ... uk
Nov 22 00:24:12 <Macer> heh
Nov 22 00:24:22 <Macer> sgbirch: yeah.. but you have something to show for your taxes
Nov 22 00:24:33 <Macer> we have debt and tanks
Nov 22 00:24:41 <Xisdibik> sgbirch: that seems lower than it used to be
Nov 22 00:24:43 <sgbirch> And 50% marginable income tax
Nov 22 00:24:51 <Macer> ouch
Nov 22 00:24:54 <Xisdibik> wasnt it like 21%+ a while ago?
Nov 22 00:24:58 <Macer> sgbirch: streets paved in gold? :)
Nov 22 00:25:05 <Xisdibik> Macer: no, bricks
Nov 22 00:25:14 <Macer> Xisdibik: seriously?
Nov 22 00:25:19 <Xisdibik> some parts of UK yea
Nov 22 00:25:20 <Xisdibik> ;)
Nov 22 00:25:20 <Macer> we used to have brick streets
Nov 22 00:25:25 <Macer> shame we don't anymore
Nov 22 00:26:06 <sgbirch> Brits loves paying tax
Nov 22 00:26:24 <sp3000> ...gold bricks
Nov 22 00:27:48 <javispedro> oh, someone reused my argument in the java thread.
Nov 22 00:27:58 <Xisdibik> we have a brick road that winds left and right
Nov 22 00:28:01 <Xisdibik> Lombard Street
Nov 22 00:28:32 <Xisdibik> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Sanfran_61_bg_032605.jpg
Nov 22 00:29:25 <Anpr> hello guys
Nov 22 00:29:33 <Xisdibik> hello Anpr
Nov 22 00:29:44 <microlith> Xisdibik: considering some of the other streets, I wonder why they went through the difficulty of doing that
Nov 22 00:29:47 <Anpr> how are u ? any news ?
Nov 22 00:30:10 <Xisdibik> microlith: not sure actualy *reads the wiki*
Nov 22 00:31:34 <Xisdibik> The switchbacks design, first suggested by property owner Carl Henry and instituted in 1922, was born out of necessity in order to reduce the hill's natural 27% grade, which was too steep for most vehicles to climb.
Nov 22 00:31:45 <microlith> ahh
Nov 22 00:32:13 <microlith> others might think "maybe a road shouldn't go here"
Nov 22 00:32:24 <Xisdibik> Americans are stubborn :)
Nov 22 00:32:30 <microlith> no joke
Nov 22 00:32:42 <microlith> although I imagine it's fun to go down :)
Nov 22 00:32:48 <Xisdibik> it is
Nov 22 00:33:03 <Xisdibik> my friend went down it on something i totally forgot what its called
Nov 22 00:33:26 <Xisdibik> its like putting scateboard wheels on tiny little platforms
Nov 22 00:33:32 <Xisdibik> and going down on two of them, one for each foot
Nov 22 00:34:32 <microlith> oh, sorta like doing a slalom, only without snow
Nov 22 00:34:44 <Xisdibik> mmm
Nov 22 00:34:48 <Xisdibik> not really
Nov 22 00:34:50 <Xisdibik> let me try to find it
Nov 22 00:35:21 <GeneralAntilles> Rollerskating? :P
Nov 22 00:35:27 <lcuk> timeless, mxr cross reference, im just wanting to search for all instances of a function in use.
Nov 22 00:35:29 <Xisdibik> no, they are not attached to your feet
Nov 22 00:35:33 <lcuk> within a set of files
Nov 22 00:35:41 <Xisdibik> its like two little skateboards with one wheel each
Nov 22 00:35:45 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: sure
Nov 22 00:35:49 <lcuk> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/search
Nov 22 00:35:52 <lcuk> i got that far
Nov 22 00:35:53 <Chani> o.0
Nov 22 00:36:00 <lcuk> the "in files matching" area
Nov 22 00:36:03 <timeless_mbp> if you want an identifier search, you're using the wrong entrypoint
Nov 22 00:36:11 <lcuk> is it simply *gary* for everything with gary in
Nov 22 00:36:16 <timeless_mbp> search is vaguely plain text
Nov 22 00:36:17 <lcuk> filename wise
Nov 22 00:36:27 <timeless_mbp> it's a regexp against the file path
Nov 22 00:36:47 <timeless_mbp> but again, you have the wrong entrypoint assuming you can spell the function name correctly
Nov 22 00:36:49 <lcuk> cool, so complete control when searching
Nov 22 00:36:54 <timeless_mbp> pretty much
Nov 22 00:37:10 <timeless_mbp> oh, for fremantle you almost certainly want to use a file limited search
Nov 22 00:37:34 <timeless_mbp> as i think the db might be too large for search to work otherwise
Nov 22 00:37:37 <lcuk> yeah i know
Nov 22 00:37:37 <timeless_mbp> not certain but...
Nov 22 00:37:37 <lcuk> i know which area im looking
Nov 22 00:37:37 <timeless_mbp> for ident search, that's not required
Nov 22 00:37:42 <lcuk> i just wanted to see if it matched with the sort of results i used to have in windows
Nov 22 00:37:48 <lcuk> (i had my own file search doofer)
Nov 22 00:38:14 <lcuk> im not interested in references outside a very specific area
Nov 22 00:38:21 <lcuk> and i know there will be loads
Nov 22 00:38:21 <javispedro> ali1234: it's not because it's using ogles instead of ogl.
Nov 22 00:38:28 <javispedro> ali1234: you're hitting a clutter bug.
Nov 22 00:38:33 <timeless_mbp> in general you should probably just use /fremantle/ instead of picking a specific version
Nov 22 00:38:42 <timeless_mbp> they're unlikely to change particularly often
Nov 22 00:38:49 <ali1234> javispedro: the blue/orange thing?
Nov 22 00:39:02 <lcuk> i have done with every other time, but you highlight the different versions on the frontpage
Nov 22 00:39:05 <ali1234> the GL/GLES thing causes bezier surfaces not to work
Nov 22 00:39:06 <javispedro> ali1234: yes
Nov 22 00:39:06 <lcuk> i tohught there might be a reason
Nov 22 00:39:21 <ali1234> hence missing features
Nov 22 00:39:22 <timeless_mbp> not really, just being silly i suppose
Nov 22 00:39:34 <javispedro> ali1234: missing features in the ogre ogles backend
Nov 22 00:39:36 <javispedro> ?
Nov 22 00:39:40 <lcuk> nahh making it clear which is there
Nov 22 00:39:43 <ali1234> probably yes
Nov 22 00:39:49 * timeless_mbp nods
Nov 22 00:40:00 <ali1234> if you try to make a bezier patch, the call succeeds but when you try to instantiate it, it doesn't work
Nov 22 00:40:13 <ali1234> probably just not implemented. normal meshes work fine
Nov 22 00:40:35 <ali1234> it basically all works fine, just needs a little bit of polish, and packaging
Nov 22 00:47:35 <javispedro> ali1234: the blue/orange stuff will work fine on device, or in SDK if you apply patch in bug #4870
Nov 22 00:47:36 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK
Nov 22 00:47:54 <ali1234> i'm running it on the device
Nov 22 00:48:18 <javispedro> oh, then that's interesting.
Nov 22 00:48:44 <ali1234> i didn't know the sdk even had gles emulation
Nov 22 00:48:45 <lcuk> ali1234, did you "fix" your code in the sdk at some point
Nov 22 00:48:48 <javispedro> then forget about everything I said :)
Nov 22 00:48:59 <javispedro> it does.
Nov 22 00:49:06 <javispedro> only in x86 target.
Nov 22 00:49:06 <ali1234> lcuk: what do you mean?
Nov 22 00:49:19 <lcuk> or could someone else - ie a patch was made in userland code to fix the apparant bug in the sdk
Nov 22 00:49:31 <ali1234> the x libs thing?
Nov 22 00:49:33 <javispedro> doubt it.
Nov 22 00:49:37 <ali1234> i don't know what is causingit
Nov 22 00:50:20 <ali1234> i just skipped compiling all the things that need X, namely the tools and the samples. you don't need them
Nov 22 00:50:59 <ali1234> it could be worked around in the cmake rules probably, but i don't know how cmake decides what libraries to link or add extra ones to it
Nov 22 00:52:30 <lcuk> in the last 24h ive gone from 1 screen to 2, and i find now i have 2, i could really do with 4 or more
Nov 22 00:56:22 <javispedro> lcuk: how true ... :P
Nov 22 00:56:29 <javispedro> sometimes I wish I've stayed with just 1.
Nov 22 00:56:38 <lcuk> i was happy
Nov 22 00:56:46 <lcuk> its actually linux thats more optimized for more
Nov 22 00:56:51 <CoreFusion-> damn that Borderlands has me hooked
Nov 22 00:56:53 <lcuk> or unoptimized
Nov 22 00:58:29 <RXrenesis8> don't worry, play it for a week and you'll be at level 50 with two playthroughs done and have nothing left to do.
Nov 22 01:10:00 * lcuk has neckache
Nov 22 01:10:27 <lcuk> im not used to looking around so much when using computer, im sure im gonna have a suntan in the morning too
Nov 22 01:11:35 <microlith> how big are the monitors?
Nov 22 01:11:49 <Macer> It may seem impossible that two galaxies on opposite sides can be separated by 93 billion light years after only 13 billion years, since special relativity states that matter cannot be accelerated to exceed the speed of light in a localized region of space-time. However, according to general relativity, space can expand with no intrinsic limit on its rate; thus, two galaxies can separate more quickly than the speed of light if the space between them grows.
Nov 22 01:12:20 <javispedro> the monitors are galaxy sized?
Nov 22 01:12:22 <Macer> ah yes. the expansion paradox
Nov 22 01:12:40 <Macer> einstein fails us again :)
Nov 22 01:13:54 <Macer> the universe can expand at ftl speeds but matter within it cannot travel faster than light
Nov 22 01:13:57 <Macer> lies
Nov 22 01:13:58 <Macer> heh
Nov 22 01:15:45 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, I'm at 4 at the moment.
Nov 22 01:15:50 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, was at 6 for a little while
Nov 22 01:15:54 <GeneralAntilles> but 4 works pretty well.
Nov 22 01:15:59 <w00t_> 6 *monitors*?
Nov 22 01:16:31 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, 2x 23.5", 2x 20", 2x 19" (widescreen).
Nov 22 01:16:40 <w00t_> yeek.
Nov 22 01:16:59 <w00t_> most I've had was two, I'd *like* three
Nov 22 01:17:16 <w00t_> but that isn't likely for a while given I mostly work on laptops nowdays
Nov 22 01:19:00 <GeneralAntilles> Laptops suck.
Nov 22 01:19:07 <RXrenesis8> pfft
Nov 22 01:19:12 <GeneralAntilles> 4 is ideal at this resolution, I think.
Nov 22 01:19:23 <GeneralAntilles> GTFO with your crappy MacBook Pro.
Nov 22 01:19:29 <RXrenesis8> pfffffft
Nov 22 01:19:34 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/3981783507/
Nov 22 01:19:45 <RXrenesis8> I'd like to see you fit your mac pro in a carryon bag
Nov 22 01:19:47 <GeneralAntilles> You don't have too many far-flung outliers and there's enough space to put stuff.
Nov 22 01:20:31 <GeneralAntilles> RXrenesis8, Forza 3 instead?
Nov 22 01:21:48 <GeneralAntilles> RXrenesis8, that's what I have my N900 and (sometimes) my Mini 9 for.
Nov 22 01:33:19 <w00t_> GeneralAntilles: depends, mine is ok really
Nov 22 01:33:52 <w00t_> it suits me, it's not for everyone ;p
Nov 22 01:34:00 <GeneralAntilles> w00t_, I've got a Mac Pro with a billion and one hard drives, 2 graphics cards, 8GB of RAM, and 8 cores. :P
Nov 22 01:34:29 <w00t_> sure
Nov 22 01:34:34 <w00t_> I don't need that :p
Nov 22 01:34:37 <lpotter> thats not enough ram
Nov 22 01:34:52 <w00t_> and for when I do, I have a desktop
Nov 22 01:34:58 <GeneralAntilles> lpotter, agreed, but I have to wait for more money. :D
Nov 22 01:35:01 <w00t_> but I use that about once per 3 months
Nov 22 01:36:07 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/photos/
Nov 22 01:36:10 <lpotter> how you going to run scratchbox on that?
Nov 22 01:44:05 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, those pictures are all sideways.
Nov 22 01:44:26 <timeless_mbp> yeah... dunno why
Nov 22 01:45:01 <timeless_mbp> seems like the camera cheats
Nov 22 01:45:04 <timeless_mbp> and relies on EXIF
Nov 22 01:45:21 <timeless_mbp> which the browser doesn't know to use
Nov 22 01:45:35 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, why are these relevant?
Nov 22 01:46:45 * timeless_mbp shrugs
Nov 22 01:46:52 <timeless_mbp> that's the nokia store in HEL
Nov 22 01:47:08 <timeless_mbp> i'll take photos of what it looks like now at some point (maybe)
Nov 22 01:47:16 <timeless_mbp> there's actually an n900 in one of the windows
Nov 22 01:56:29 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, I know the N900's fat, but I believe that's actually a giant N97. *g*
Nov 22 01:59:54 <luke-jr> wtf?
Nov 22 02:03:04 <Xisdibik> GeneralAntilles: how dare you talk about the n900 like that
Nov 22 02:03:05 <Xisdibik> she is NOT fat!
Nov 22 02:06:13 <RXrenesis8> I want to ride my bicycle
Nov 22 02:07:18 <Shapeshifter> Who's this "Eldar"?
Nov 22 02:09:32 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, some Russian blogger.
Nov 22 02:14:32 <microlith> his name confused me at first
Nov 22 02:14:45 <microlith> (I had warhammer 40k on the brain at the time)
Nov 22 02:16:43 <tadthebuilder> so are most people satisfied with their n900's?
Nov 22 02:17:22 <lpotter> I might be if I had one
Nov 22 02:17:37 <auenf> i would be if nokia would consider bringing it out here
Nov 22 02:17:59 <tadthebuilder> heh
Nov 22 02:18:38 <microlith> fuck
Nov 22 02:18:45 <tadthebuilder> i cant get one unless the price drops alot myself
Nov 22 02:18:47 <microlith> chase denied my transaction with nokia
Nov 22 02:19:07 <microlith> great, time to call them
Nov 22 02:19:54 <Robot101> tadthebuilder: seen them on amazon.com? they're <$500 if you get the $50 rebate
Nov 22 02:20:24 <microlith> I wish you didn't have to already have a nokia phone to be able to track your order progress online
Nov 22 02:20:44 <tadthebuilder> robot, waiting on a used oen
Nov 22 02:20:45 <tadthebuilder> one*
Nov 22 02:20:57 <tadthebuilder> cannot afford 500 dollars on a phone right now...
Nov 22 02:21:14 <microlith> man what the hell is the point of having a credit card if their default behavior is to deny charges over a (rather) low amount
Nov 22 02:21:43 <DeadDodo> microlight: To build up a credit rating if you should need one later.
Nov 22 02:23:06 <SpeedEvil> tadthebuilder: If you're overweight, try the n900 diet plan. Eat half the food to compensate for buying the n900.
Nov 22 02:23:19 <tadthebuilder> welll
Nov 22 02:23:24 <tadthebuilder> id probably die
Nov 22 02:23:52 <SpeedEvil> (though /me is only on 2/3, not 1/2)
Nov 22 02:24:17 <microlith> fucking credit card
Nov 22 02:24:21 <SpeedEvil> :/
Nov 22 02:24:50 <tadthebuilder> ill just stick with my n800 till they show up used
Nov 22 02:25:42 <luke-jr> I'll just stick with my N810 until someone makes a decent handheld >.>
Nov 22 02:25:53 <DeadDodo> No one will ever make a decent handheld.
Nov 22 02:26:04 <luke-jr> DeadDodo: Zaurus SL-C760 was for its time
Nov 22 02:26:30 <javispedro> DeadDodo: quite appropiate name.
Nov 22 02:26:39 <DeadDodo> Didn't that have a tiny keyboard, or am I think of a different model?
Nov 22 02:26:47 <javispedro> luke-jr: decent handhelds are gone the way of the dodo.
Nov 22 02:26:54 <javispedro> i learned that 4 years ago.
Nov 22 02:26:58 <javispedro> this is the age of the iphone.
Nov 22 02:27:05 <DeadDodo> Psion used to make some very nice handhelds 10 years ago.
Nov 22 02:27:07 <microlith> oh goddamnit
Nov 22 02:27:12 <microlith> they've been blocking everything for the past week
Nov 22 02:27:19 <luke-jr> javispedro: :(
Nov 22 02:27:25 <luke-jr> DeadDodo: it had a VERY NICE keyboard
Nov 22 02:27:39 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, welcome back, tadthebuilder. :)
Nov 22 02:27:46 <DeadDodo> Then I've mistaken it for another model. Was this one of those clamshell types?
Nov 22 02:27:46 <GeneralAntilles> Post-congratulations. :)
Nov 22 02:27:51 <tadthebuilder> haha
Nov 22 02:27:53 <tadthebuilder> thanks
Nov 22 02:27:59 <luke-jr> DeadDodo: yes
Nov 22 02:28:04 <tadthebuilder> i was a little slow on the internets getting up
Nov 22 02:28:35 <tadthebuilder> how is everything going generalantilles
Nov 22 02:30:45 <tadthebuilder> lcuk you here?
Nov 22 02:31:18 <lcuk> ish
Nov 22 02:31:31 <tadthebuilder> how are you doing man?
Nov 22 02:32:21 * lcuk untangles keyboard
Nov 22 02:32:33 <lcuk> im doing great i think!   how are you
Nov 22 02:32:40 <tadthebuilder> doing well
Nov 22 02:32:44 * lcuk nods
Nov 22 02:32:49 <tadthebuilder> happily married
Nov 22 02:33:09 <tadthebuilder> you still looking for a job?
Nov 22 02:33:14 <lcuk> heh so now no way to sneak an n900 on the credit card lol
Nov 22 02:33:47 <lcuk> no tadthebuilder :) i am now gainfully employed (though still finding my feet)
Nov 22 02:33:48 <tadthebuilder> glad to hear it
Nov 22 02:33:48 <tadthebuilder> yeah no way for a n900
Nov 22 02:33:51 <tadthebuilder> no budget either...:)
Nov 22 02:33:54 <tadthebuilder> its all good
Nov 22 02:33:59 <tadthebuilder> rather have a wife than an n900
Nov 22 02:34:02 <tadthebuilder> n800 still works
Nov 22 02:34:09 <lcuk> i think the suggestion earlier by SpeedEvil was cool
Nov 22 02:34:22 <tadthebuilder> heh
Nov 22 02:34:31 <tadthebuilder> well I have no weight to lose
Nov 22 02:34:32 <lcuk> holy crap it connected
Nov 22 02:34:45 <tadthebuilder> im 6 3 and I weight about 140
Nov 22 02:34:56 <tadthebuilder> (I should probably convert that...)
Nov 22 02:35:12 <lcuk> nahhh
Nov 22 02:35:19 <lcuk> and its gone again
Nov 22 02:35:44 <lcuk> wireless network is bein a sod
Nov 22 02:36:17 <tadthebuilder> any updates on liqbase since my last being on?
Nov 22 02:36:27 <lcuk> tadthebuilder, there is a maemo long weekend event happening in Barcelona start of next month.
Nov 22 02:37:00 <lcuk> some of Nokias top UX team are coming over and discussing with some developers and innovators
Nov 22 02:37:07 <lcuk> and liqbase calendar is on the agenda :)
Nov 22 02:37:08 * GeneralAntilles yawns.
Nov 22 02:37:14 <tadthebuilder> well thats cool
Nov 22 02:37:17 <tadthebuilder> and exciting for you
Nov 22 02:37:19 <GeneralAntilles> tadthebuilder, no more cold hotdogs? ;)
Nov 22 02:37:20 <lcuk> indeed
Nov 22 02:37:22 <tadthebuilder> where do you work no
Nov 22 02:37:26 <tadthebuilder> haha exactly
Nov 22 02:37:48 <lcuk> i work with collabora, based in cambridge
Nov 22 02:38:19 <tadthebuilder> i like the ninja
Nov 22 02:38:27 <lcuk> heh
Nov 22 02:38:50 <tadthebuilder> yeah so I googled it
Nov 22 02:38:57 <GeneralAntilles> Big Maemo contractor.
Nov 22 02:39:05 * lcuk is slowly getting over hurdles
Nov 22 02:39:05 <tadthebuilder> ah okay
Nov 22 02:39:13 <lcuk> i seem to find every single pothole along the way :D
Nov 22 02:40:59 <tadthebuilder> makes for a fun ride though, as long as your neck is tough
Nov 22 02:41:14 <lcuk> heh just moaning tonight about neck ache
Nov 22 02:41:27 <lcuk> ive gone from 1 monitor to 2
Nov 22 02:41:28 <Robot101> o/
Nov 22 02:41:29 <lcuk> but now i need more
Nov 22 02:41:36 <tadthebuilder> add a third
Nov 22 02:41:36 <Robot101> evening lcuk
Nov 22 02:41:44 <lcuk> hey Robot101 \o
Nov 22 02:41:51 * Robot101 has a bit of neckache using his old desktop PC on the projector :)
Nov 22 02:41:55 <lcuk> tadthebuilder, i need about 10 with linux
Nov 22 02:42:03 <lcuk> i was happy with the one before lol
Nov 22 02:42:07 * Robot101 put a new gfx card in so he can drive the projector at 1080P HD
Nov 22 02:42:09 <tadthebuilder> hey the more monitors the better
Nov 22 02:42:15 <Robot101> lcuk: you should have another on tues :)
Nov 22 02:42:20 <lcuk> wicked :D
Nov 22 02:42:25 <Robot101> GeneralAntilles: we're not that big, only around 50 of us :D
Nov 22 02:42:59 <GeneralAntilles> Robot101, I should say, relative to some of the other contractors.
Nov 22 02:43:15 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, Samsung 2343b,x
Nov 22 02:43:18 <GeneralAntilles> s/,/w/
Nov 22 02:43:18 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: lcukw Samsung 2343b,x
Nov 22 02:43:29 * GeneralAntilles tried to type qwerty there for a second.
Nov 22 02:43:31 <lcuk> Robot101, i think i have it running :)
Nov 22 02:44:06 <lcuk> how big is the projectection?
Nov 22 02:44:15 * tadthebuilder is confused by infobot
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 22 02:51:54 2009
Nov 22 02:52:07 <tadthebuilder> ah okay
Nov 22 02:52:13 <tadthebuilder> im just paranoid of cable internet providers
Nov 22 02:52:31 <tadthebuilder> i know most of them have really strict guidelines
Nov 22 02:52:42 <tadthebuilder> ive heard of some that dont let you use your own wireless router
Nov 22 02:52:50 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/cebridge
Nov 22 02:54:14 <microlith> comcast's quality varies by region
Nov 22 02:54:23 <GeneralAntilles> microlith, from shit to worse.
Nov 22 02:54:34 <microlith> oddly I've had no issue with them
Nov 22 02:54:43 <tadthebuilder> i just hate how unlimited plans arent unlimited
Nov 22 02:54:58 <tadthebuilder> im mostly worried about the wireless router though
Nov 22 02:55:00 <tadthebuilder> I have one
Nov 22 02:55:08 <tadthebuilder> and i know they have a plan where they install wireless into your house
Nov 22 02:55:10 <microlith> granted the service I'm paying for is barely better than what I had in Japan in 2003
Nov 22 02:55:17 <microlith> which makes no sense, but still
Nov 22 02:55:18 <tadthebuilder> so im paranoid that they wont let me use their wireless router
Nov 22 02:55:31 <tadthebuilder> i mean us my wireless router
Nov 22 02:56:19 <microlith> tadthebuilder: if you turn down their router, you can just use yours
Nov 22 02:56:29 <microlith> they can't block yours or somesuch
Nov 22 02:56:37 <tadthebuilder> i know they cannot stop it
Nov 22 02:56:46 <tadthebuilder> but cant they forbid it in the user agreement?
Nov 22 02:57:03 <GeneralAntilles> Usually they don't.
Nov 22 02:57:07 <GeneralAntilles> Most of them have no reason to.
Nov 22 02:57:14 <tadthebuilder> ah okay
Nov 22 02:57:17 <luke-jr> usually they do forbid sharing with other people, though
Nov 22 02:57:18 <tadthebuilder> well my issue is I have two choices
Nov 22 02:57:23 <tadthebuilder> them or embarq dsl
Nov 22 02:57:26 <tadthebuilder> I dont like dsl speeds
Nov 22 02:57:50 <tadthebuilder> and im hoping to use voip (maybe even magic jack) because I have a cell phone and dont need a landline
Nov 22 02:57:59 <tadthebuilder> in my opinion I dont need anything
Nov 22 02:58:02 <GeneralAntilles> I'd probably go with cable.
Nov 22 02:58:06 <tadthebuilder> but my wife wants some type of house phone
Nov 22 02:58:28 <tadthebuilder> cable is advertising at a cheaper rate to
Nov 22 02:58:34 <tadthebuilder> 20 bucks a month, even if its by itself
Nov 22 02:58:39 <microlith> for how long?
Nov 22 02:58:40 <tadthebuilder> though I know that an introductory rate
Nov 22 02:58:43 <microlith> heh
Nov 22 02:58:48 <tadthebuilder> doesnt say how long
Nov 22 02:58:52 <tadthebuilder> or what the price will change too
Nov 22 02:59:05 <tadthebuilder> I really dont like companies that do business like that
Nov 22 02:59:12 <tadthebuilder> tell me what im going to pay when that price expires
Nov 22 02:59:56 <crashanddie> meh
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 22 02:59:57 2009