**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 23 02:59:56 2009
Nov 23 03:01:37 <paroneayea> So assuming I'm working on setting up a cross-compiling environment from my debian machine.  Would this be considered the best route, or maybe a more manual path?: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation
Nov 23 03:03:12 <paroneayea> hm
Nov 23 03:03:34 <paroneayea> well I guess I'm just cross-compiling, this looks like it sets up some binary garbage I might not need on my machine?
Nov 23 03:16:15 <paroneayea> also, what's the reasoning for things installing to /opt/ instead of /usr/?
Nov 23 03:16:53 <t_s_o> opt will be symlinked to /home/user/opt/ or something like that...
Nov 23 03:18:40 * paroneayea looks forward to a day when he can hopefully just install debian on his n900 and still use it as a phone :)
Nov 23 03:21:19 <GeneralAntilles> paroneayea, Debian is not optimized for power savings.
Nov 23 03:21:36 <GeneralAntilles> paroneayea, /usr would be mounted too late in the boot process.
Nov 23 03:21:46 <GeneralAntilles> paroneayea, there's a thread about it on the maemo-developers archives.
Nov 23 03:29:01 <dmj726> hey zaheerm
Nov 23 04:57:15 <pupnik> Till just put Enigma into -devel. Great puzzle game.  He is on a roll!
Nov 23 05:10:40 <pupnik> heh level 13 not easy
Nov 23 05:15:40 <GeneralAntilles> pupnik, just wish he'd quite whining about -testing.
Nov 23 05:54:17 <johnx> mornin' all
Nov 23 05:56:07 <pupnik> mii
Nov 23 06:02:02 <RST38h> moorning all
Nov 23 06:02:16 <johnx> allo RST38h
Nov 23 06:18:50 <timeless_mbp> johnx: i've got a new deb for testing
Nov 23 06:19:28 <johnx> testing to see if it breaks my device? or testing to see if the strings make sense?
Nov 23 06:20:22 <timeless_mbp> i'm running it on my device
Nov 23 06:20:35 <timeless_mbp> so let's assume it doesn't kill devices dead :)
Nov 23 06:21:01 <tigert> yo morning
Nov 23 06:21:27 <timeless_mbp> [es][en] = parse fail
Nov 23 06:22:37 <johnx> allo tigert
Nov 23 06:23:54 <johnx> timeless_mbp, yeah, missing a fair number of dependencies. where would I find those zenity and gettext?
Nov 23 06:24:04 <timeless_mbp> extras-devel
Nov 23 06:24:15 <timeless_mbp> sorry, you really don't have my package installed already?
Nov 23 06:24:58 <johnx> nope :)
Nov 23 06:25:31 * RST38h moos at wazd
Nov 23 06:27:22 <izzox> Anyone to help me installing gentoo on my n810?? Pliz!
Nov 23 06:27:45 <izzox> Pliz
Nov 23 06:27:51 <RST38h> http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6084/eexjm.jpg
Nov 23 06:27:58 <johnx> izzox, if you can't figure it out yourself, gentoo probably isn't for you ...
Nov 23 06:28:00 * RST38h speechless
Nov 23 06:28:12 <Stskeeps> izzox: you want to talk to luke-jr
Nov 23 06:28:23 <izzox> Thx
Nov 23 06:28:26 <RST38h> izzox: but do reconsider your motivation first :)
Nov 23 06:28:49 <wazd> heya all
Nov 23 06:28:55 <luke-jr> ...
Nov 23 06:29:21 <luke-jr> izzox: it's down atm, but read http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0
Nov 23 06:29:44 <izzox> Yeah i read it
Nov 23 06:30:08 <izzox> But i seemed that it was the guide for the non-bootable
Nov 23 06:32:02 <izzox> Can I pm u luke-jr??
Nov 23 06:32:14 <paroneayea> so, hildon is based on top of clutter, right?
Nov 23 06:32:29 <RST38h> hildon-desktop is
Nov 23 06:32:50 <johnx> libhildon is just on top of gtk+
Nov 23 06:33:09 <paroneayea> cool, thanks
Nov 23 06:33:13 <luke-jr> izzox: it includes bootable
Nov 23 06:33:32 <izzox> Can i pm u?
Nov 23 06:35:06 <luke-jr> rather chat here
Nov 23 06:36:11 <izzox> It's ok i got u.
Nov 23 06:54:26 <wazd> RST38h: have you received any details on that nokia event?
Nov 23 06:57:51 <kirma> starting to be pretty convinced I get my own n900 on my hands today... it's somewhere in helsinki capital area now :)
Nov 23 06:58:41 <timeless_mbp> kirma: and where are you?
Nov 23 06:58:46 * microlith will be happy if Nokia ships his Monday and gets it on or before Wednesday
Nov 23 06:59:08 <timeless_mbp> you'll be happy if Nokia gets it on or before Wednesday?
Nov 23 06:59:30 * timeless_mbp warns microlith about the hazards of incomplete and missed backreferences while writing in the third person
Nov 23 06:59:39 <johnx> timeless_mbp, you misparsed, actually :)
Nov 23 06:59:41 <kirma> oh, I'm in helsinki too.
Nov 23 06:59:48 <timeless_mbp> johnx: did not
Nov 23 06:59:53 <timeless_mbp> he's missing a 'he'
Nov 23 07:00:17 <johnx> on second glance, I guess you're right
Nov 23 07:00:26 <microlith> timeless_mbp's parser is on extra strict
Nov 23 07:00:39 <timeless_mbp> the only way to fly!
Nov 23 07:01:12 <timeless_mbp> and i'm being lax
Nov 23 07:01:22 <timeless_mbp> i'm willing to treat 'his' as 'his n900 [on]'
Nov 23 07:01:39 <timeless_mbp> instead of asking microlith how much he paid for a Monday and whether it's transferable :)
Nov 23 07:02:11 <microlith> mondays don't sell for much, no one likes them
Nov 23 07:04:26 <timeless_mbp> ok
Nov 23 07:04:52 <timeless_mbp> [[=]o]=> "Open lens cover"
Nov 23 07:05:02 <timeless_mbp> Should that be "Slide open lens cover" ?
Nov 23 07:05:16 <microlith> only after someone rips the cover out
Nov 23 07:05:20 <timeless_mbp> or "Lens cover closed.\nSlide to open"
Nov 23 07:05:34 <timeless_mbp> ?
Nov 23 07:05:45 <microlith> I think the slide aspect would be a given for anyone who owned the device
Nov 23 07:05:55 * timeless_mbp chuckles
Nov 23 07:06:11 <microlith> or am I overestimating the capabilities of some buyers?
Nov 23 07:06:13 <timeless_mbp> you haven't watched people fumble through every single aspect of the hardware mechanics of this device
Nov 23 07:06:14 <johnx> 'forcibly pry the lens cover open in exactly the way it doesn't seem to be designed to move.'
Nov 23 07:06:43 <timeless_mbp> microlith: note that i'm not specifically talking about buyers
Nov 23 07:06:50 <timeless_mbp> i let people pick up and try to use my n900s
Nov 23 07:06:51 <microlith> -_-
Nov 23 07:07:00 <johnx> timeless_mbp, I'll take the 3rd option on two lines...
Nov 23 07:07:06 <timeless_mbp> and their failure rate at various tasks is ... disturbing
Nov 23 07:07:18 <timeless_mbp> johnx: ok, let's see how stupid the Camera app is
Nov 23 07:07:20 * timeless_mbp tries
Nov 23 07:09:08 <timeless_mbp> johnx: btw, you were complaining about me deleting files from $HOME[user]
Nov 23 07:09:16 <timeless_mbp> there are people who want my package to binary hack osso-browser
Nov 23 07:09:49 <johnx> timeless_mbp, only if it is marked as Replaces: osso-browser
Nov 23 07:10:02 <timeless_mbp> johnx: since binary hacking is abi specific
Nov 23 07:10:07 <timeless_mbp> it'd have to be in a dependency
Nov 23 07:10:15 <timeless_mbp> osso-browser-l10n-fix-armel
Nov 23 07:10:33 <timeless_mbp> actually wait
Nov 23 07:10:38 <timeless_mbp> i might be able to do this
Nov 23 07:10:41 * timeless_mbp ponders
Nov 23 07:10:49 <timeless_mbp> ok, how do i find a function in a binary? :)
Nov 23 07:10:59 <johnx> decompiler?
Nov 23 07:11:07 <timeless_mbp> is that included in my box?
Nov 23 07:11:23 <timeless_mbp> i don't even have a debugger!
Nov 23 07:11:57 * johnx shrugs
Nov 23 07:12:03 <timeless_mbp> uh oh
Nov 23 07:12:26 <timeless_mbp> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run `dpkg --configure -a` to correct the problem.
Nov 23 07:12:40 <timeless_mbp> so i guess running reboot from inside postinst is a bad idea :)
Nov 23 07:12:48 <johnx> yeah
Nov 23 07:14:23 <timeless_mbp> is there a debian/postdpkg? :)
Nov 23 07:14:54 * timeless_mbp puzzles
Nov 23 07:15:07 <timeless_mbp> why didn't ham choke on my dpkg --configure -a error?
Nov 23 07:15:27 <timeless_mbp> ah, running dpkg --configure dpkg to clean up journal
Nov 23 07:22:37 <timeless_mbp> ok, can i get the pid of dpkg easily?
Nov 23 07:22:47 <timeless_mbp> is it in my postinst's parent pid chain?
Nov 23 07:23:44 <suihkulokki> sounds like you want to do something very wrong
Nov 23 07:25:28 <timeless_mbp> yep :)
Nov 23 07:25:39 <timeless_mbp> i have a problem:
Nov 23 07:25:51 <timeless_mbp> installing my package can result in the user needing to reboot
Nov 23 07:26:05 <timeless_mbp> i think ham actually has some way to trigger reboots
Nov 23 07:26:20 <Corsac> hmmh, unconditional reboot?
Nov 23 07:26:29 <timeless_mbp> i toss up a dialog to confirm
Nov 23 07:26:38 <timeless_mbp> the dialog lets you "take your chances"
Nov 23 07:26:51 <timeless_mbp> ham/backup don't typically give you a choice
Nov 23 07:26:52 <Corsac> the kernel has a debconf note for that, but I'm not really sure maemo has a debconf frontend?
Nov 23 07:27:04 <timeless_mbp> ?
Nov 23 07:27:23 <Corsac> what is the ? about? kernel note or debconf?
Nov 23 07:27:28 <microlith> I'd take a look at the way kernel releaes are packaged up
Nov 23 07:27:45 <adeus> at least ubuntu uses the reboot-required script
Nov 23 07:27:47 <Corsac> (I meant debian kernel, not maemo kernel, sorry)
Nov 23 07:27:56 <adeus> notify-reboot-required to be exact
Nov 23 07:28:20 <timeless_mbp> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/debian/
Nov 23 07:28:24 <timeless_mbp> doesn't seem to have such a thing
Nov 23 07:28:53 <pwnguin> anyone know of a personal webserver alternative to flickr?
Nov 23 07:29:14 <adeus> flickr is a personal webserver?
Nov 23 07:29:30 <timeless_mbp> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=notify-reboot-required&find=sysvinit/debian
Nov 23 07:29:34 <timeless_mbp> shows we have it in one file
Nov 23 07:29:42 <pwnguin> no, "personal webserver" is an adjective
Nov 23 07:29:58 <pwnguin> as in, flickr, but installable in ubuntu
Nov 23 07:30:13 <timeless_mbp> cute
Nov 23 07:30:17 <timeless_mbp> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/find?string=notify-reboot-required
Nov 23 07:30:18 <pwnguin> like gallery without the security time bomb
Nov 23 07:30:23 <timeless_mbp> doesn't seem to exist in open
Nov 23 07:31:49 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: so, am i safe in assuming maemo doesn't have a matching thing?
Nov 23 07:31:52 <adeus> looking at it, the script is just some wakeup thingy for a "reboot" applet
Nov 23 07:31:55 <timeless_mbp> you can use mxr.maemo.org to look around
Nov 23 07:32:10 <timeless_mbp> adeus: yeah
Nov 23 07:32:18 <timeless_mbp> i'm not quite sure i really want to write a reboot applet
Nov 23 07:32:24 <pwnguin> i like the idea of photo sharing, but the 300 picture limit is unfortunate
Nov 23 07:32:40 <tigert> pwnguin: picasa has bigger quota
Nov 23 07:32:48 <timeless_mbp> who has the 300 limit?
Nov 23 07:32:54 <tigert> but "sharing" photos and "personal webserver" are kinda contradictory
Nov 23 07:33:08 <pwnguin> tigert: how so?
Nov 23 07:33:12 <tigert> if you want something like flickr, without all your contacts, it is not the same
Nov 23 07:33:25 <pwnguin> ah, i dont need social networking
Nov 23 07:33:28 <tigert> ah
Nov 23 07:33:42 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: I guess so :/
Nov 23 07:33:44 <tigert> gallery.sf.net then?
Nov 23 07:33:48 <adeus> ovi share works rather well at least on my 5800
Nov 23 07:33:50 * timeless_mbp uses gallery
Nov 23 07:33:54 <tigert> ovi share too
Nov 23 07:33:57 <Corsac> mhmh the template has been dropped in debian
Nov 23 07:33:58 <tigert> or picasaweb
Nov 23 07:34:00 <pwnguin> tigert: im kinda worried about gallery being written in PHP
Nov 23 07:34:01 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: 1, 2 or 3?
Nov 23 07:34:03 <timeless_mbp> um
Nov 23 07:34:10 <Corsac> pwnguin: scp + genethumb.sh?
Nov 23 07:34:12 <tigert> pwnguin: everything is php nowadays
Nov 23 07:34:14 <tigert> but yeah
Nov 23 07:34:23 <pwnguin> and everything is insecure these days :P
Nov 23 07:34:25 <tigert> pwnguin: picasa works
Nov 23 07:34:30 <timeless_mbp> 2!
Nov 23 07:34:30 <tigert> or ovi share
Nov 23 07:34:40 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: http://www.mail-archive.com/kernel-svn-changes@lists.alioth.debian.org/msg05026.html was what we had at one point
Nov 23 07:34:46 <tigert> if you have n900 its easy to push pics to ovi
Nov 23 07:34:59 <tigert> or just pay the flickr fee like I did :P
Nov 23 07:35:04 <tigert> its just handy and works
Nov 23 07:35:08 <pwnguin> i already pay linode
Nov 23 07:35:59 * tigert wonders what is the limit on ovi.com
Nov 23 07:36:00 <doc|home> pwnguin: php is fine, it's developers you need to worry about
Nov 23 07:36:20 <pwnguin> doc|home: sure. why should i trust gallery developers?
Nov 23 07:36:50 <doc|home> pwnguin: that's a whole different question :)
Nov 23 07:36:56 <Corsac> because they have an historic of success wrt. security?
Nov 23 07:36:58 <Corsac> no wait.
Nov 23 07:37:18 <doc|home> pwnguin: but it's open source, you can look at it yourself, modify it, or pay someone to secure it for you if you like.
Nov 23 07:37:28 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: thanks
Nov 23 07:37:31 <timeless_mbp> i can't really parse that
Nov 23 07:37:35 <timeless_mbp> it seems to use 'input(...)'
Nov 23 07:37:52 <tigert> gallery has had its security flaws
Nov 23 07:37:58 <timeless_mbp> you'd rather trust ovi?
Nov 23 07:38:00 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: it uses the debconf system
Nov 23 07:38:01 <tigert> dunno about how it is been recently
Nov 23 07:38:03 <pwnguin> http://code.google.com/p/django-photologue/
Nov 23 07:38:09 <timeless_mbp> which can't spell Mexico City correctly?
Nov 23 07:38:10 <tigert> timeless_mbp: its not my own server :)
Nov 23 07:38:29 <timeless_mbp> tigert: but is it your own photos?
Nov 23 07:38:34 <tigert> flickr is yeah
Nov 23 07:38:35 <timeless_mbp> look, i'm not defending gallery
Nov 23 07:38:35 <tigert> erm
Nov 23 07:38:36 <tigert> yeah
Nov 23 07:38:40 <timeless_mbp> and i'm not actively attacking ovi
Nov 23 07:38:44 <Corsac> http://wiki.debian.org/debconf
Nov 23 07:38:47 <timeless_mbp> although i sure as hell am passively attacking those idiots
Nov 23 07:38:52 <tigert> I use flickr because it has the critical mass of people
Nov 23 07:38:59 <tigert> I'd use facebook gallery if it didnt suck
Nov 23 07:39:07 <timeless_mbp> i mean seriously, how hard is it not to misspell the names of 9 cities?
Nov 23 07:39:07 <tigert> but its because of the social side
Nov 23 07:39:18 <timeless_mbp> Hlesinki anyone?
Nov 23 07:39:25 <Corsac> aha
Nov 23 07:39:38 <timeless_mbp> http://www.flagship.nokia.com/ for people who haven't seen it
Nov 23 07:39:40 <tigert> timeless_mbp: scheuldle contsraints!
Nov 23 07:39:51 <timeless_mbp> just read the name of the city south of new york
Nov 23 07:39:59 <timeless_mbp> (or due south of chicago)
Nov 23 07:40:40 <tigert> argh
Nov 23 07:40:47 * tigert does not like ubuntu much at the moment
Nov 23 07:40:50 <tigert> or adobe
Nov 23 07:41:09 <tigert> dunno which to blame for the firefox eating 100% cpu the moment I visit a site with flash
Nov 23 07:41:11 <timeless_mbp> tigert: do you like ovi? :)
Nov 23 07:41:23 <johnx> tigert, flashblock
Nov 23 07:41:23 <timeless_mbp> you could use ns-plugin-wrapper
Nov 23 07:41:26 <timeless_mbp> and then you could blame it!
Nov 23 07:41:29 <tigert> timeless_mbp: I started to use ovi a bit
Nov 23 07:41:31 <timeless_mbp> (the wrapper, which is buggy)
Nov 23 07:41:36 <timeless_mbp> tigert: i'm sorry :_)
Nov 23 07:41:58 <RurouniJones_> Anyone in the UK got their 900s yet?
Nov 23 07:41:59 <johnx> if the site still takes 100% of your CPU time after installing flashblock, then by all means blame firefox or the ubuntu firefox packagers...
Nov 23 07:41:59 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, in case people think i'm being unfair
Nov 23 07:42:12 <tigert> johnx: yeah
Nov 23 07:42:13 <timeless_mbp> i sent an internal email to the people listed as employees at the mexico city store
Nov 23 07:42:20 <timeless_mbp> we'll see if they can fix their store's name
Nov 23 07:42:25 <pwnguin> tigert: are you using the flash beta?
Nov 23 07:42:36 <timeless_mbp> tigert: got gdb?
Nov 23 07:42:38 <tigert> pwnguin: whatever comes with ubuntu 9.10
Nov 23 07:42:39 <paroneayea> http://dustycloud.org/blog/view_post/n900/
Nov 23 07:42:43 <timeless_mbp> it's fairly trivial to do basic sampling
Nov 23 07:42:51 <tigert> upgraded to 9.10 and this started
Nov 23 07:43:07 <pwnguin> tigert: does it happen on guest sessions?
Nov 23 07:43:09 * tigert blames lousy QA
Nov 23 07:43:22 <tigert> pwnguin: havent looked that hard yet
Nov 23 07:43:24 <tigert> good point
Nov 23 07:43:37 <pwnguin> guest session is a trivial test platform ;)
Nov 23 07:44:15 <timeless_mbp> paroneayea: thanks for the url
Nov 23 07:44:23 <timeless_mbp> tigert: ovi has qa?
Nov 23 07:44:33 <pwnguin> tigert: ubuntu
Nov 23 07:44:34 <timeless_mbp> afaict the esMX team does absolutely ZERO qa
Nov 23 07:44:35 <pwnguin> doh
Nov 23 07:44:45 <timeless_mbp> since this is the second big botch i've found for their site
Nov 23 07:44:46 <pwnguin> timeless_mbp: he's referring to ubuntu's QA
Nov 23 07:44:53 <timeless_mbp> oh
Nov 23 07:45:02 <timeless_mbp> bah, getting flash right is hard
Nov 23 07:45:08 <timeless_mbp> tigert: you should know that :)
Nov 23 07:45:17 <timeless_mbp> also, it's not like you have many choices
Nov 23 07:45:24 <timeless_mbp> usually 99% of all versions available are exploitable
Nov 23 07:45:33 <pwnguin> i think gnash plays youtube now
Nov 23 07:45:34 <timeless_mbp> which would *hopefully* exclude them from consideration
Nov 23 07:45:51 <timeless_mbp> (although Nokia management doesn't seem to consider exploits to be a reason not to ship a product)
Nov 23 07:46:46 <tigert> timeless_mbp: sometimes it might be wise to not bite the hand that feeds you all the time :)
Nov 23 07:46:48 <pwnguin> consumers are recieving n900s?
Nov 23 07:47:08 <timeless_mbp> tigert: i'm thoroughly pissed and am considering wanting to not have to touch that hand ever again
Nov 23 07:47:24 <timeless_mbp> (although, i think that's finnish weather causing me to bite every hand i see at this point)
Nov 23 07:47:46 <tigert> timeless_mbp: I wouldnt bring those issues to a public channel though
Nov 23 07:48:01 <timeless_mbp> tigert: i didn't mention my private rant from this morning
Nov 23 07:48:05 <timeless_mbp> did you get that in your mailbox?
Nov 23 07:48:18 <tigert> didnt read mail yet
Nov 23 07:48:49 <timeless_mbp> what, your n900 doesn't start grabbing mail at 8am or 9am?
Nov 23 07:48:52 <timeless_mbp> tsk
Nov 23 07:49:21 <tigert> it does
Nov 23 07:49:29 <tigert> doesnt mean I read it :)
Nov 23 07:49:47 <tigert> gaa
Nov 23 07:49:51 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 23 07:50:03 <tigert> hit ctrl-alt-bs on console on that ubuntu :P
Nov 23 07:50:24 <tigert> instead of ctrl-alt-fn-F8
Nov 23 07:50:25 <pwnguin> http://piwigo.org/
Nov 23 07:50:28 <pwnguin> anyone seen that?
Nov 23 07:50:29 <tigert> which i tried
Nov 23 07:50:47 <tigert> fn is next to del
Nov 23 07:50:51 <timeless_mbp> do i want to know what oh.
Nov 23 07:50:51 <pwnguin> doh; http://www.vupen.com/english/advisories/2009/3221
Nov 23 07:50:53 <timeless_mbp> clever
Nov 23 07:51:17 <tigert> but Steve has seen that this is Good(tm)
Nov 23 07:51:33 <pwnguin> tigert: this is why dontzap defaults are in place
Nov 23 07:51:44 <timeless_mbp> tigert: eh?
Nov 23 07:51:53 <tigert> timeless_mbp: mac kbd
Nov 23 07:52:05 <timeless_mbp> on my mbp i'd need to try to press fn-ctrl-alt-f12(speaker) and miss to get backspace
Nov 23 07:52:17 <tigert> this is external kb
Nov 23 07:52:20 <timeless_mbp> i don't even have a delete
Nov 23 07:53:18 <johnx> timeless_mbp, yes you do. it just doesn't send ctrl+h :P
Nov 23 07:53:18 <timeless_mbp> you were trying to change vt's?
Nov 23 07:53:34 <timeless_mbp> johnx: not on my mbp
Nov 23 07:53:36 <johnx> ctrl+alt+<curosor-left>
Nov 23 07:53:57 <johnx> timeless_mbp, read me the label on the key under 'eject' :P
Nov 23 07:53:58 <timeless_mbp> my mac usb keyboard has two delete keys
Nov 23 07:54:05 <timeless_mbp> johnx: "<-"
Nov 23 07:54:30 <johnx> uh huh. what nationality is the keyboard?
Nov 23 07:54:42 <timeless_mbp> fi
Nov 23 07:54:53 <johnx> madness
Nov 23 07:55:14 <timeless_mbp> this might be why nokians think that the <- icon makes sense to people :)
Nov 23 07:55:26 <timeless_mbp> http://www.whatlaptop.co.uk/files/whatlaptop/macbook02.jpg
Nov 23 07:55:28 <timeless_mbp> roughly
Nov 23 07:55:58 <timeless_mbp> right shape, different labels for keys east of P/L and west of "<-D"
Nov 23 07:56:12 <johnx> that's an even smaller enter key than the JP keyboard layout I think
Nov 23 07:56:28 <pupnik> heh xmame is faster than expected
Nov 23 07:56:32 <timeless_mbp> http://www.kbcovers.com/servlet/Detail?no=70 ?
Nov 23 07:57:08 <timeless_mbp> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/MacBookProJISKeyboard-2.jpg/250px-MacBookProJISKeyboard-2.jpg ?
Nov 23 07:57:19 <johnx> timeless_mbp, that's a cover ... :P
Nov 23 07:57:41 <johnx> one sec
Nov 23 07:57:50 <timeless_mbp> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2562/3906502087_482781e0f7_b.jpg ?
Nov 23 07:58:03 <timeless_mbp> that last one is nice
Nov 23 07:58:12 <timeless_mbp> a decent size for the left shift key
Nov 23 07:58:15 <johnx> let's see...
Nov 23 07:58:31 <timeless_mbp> you lose a key west of "1"
Nov 23 07:58:50 <timeless_mbp> and backspace changes a bit
Nov 23 07:59:00 <timeless_mbp> to add Yen
Nov 23 07:59:03 <johnx> really cool control key if you could get used to it though
Nov 23 07:59:13 <timeless_mbp> interesting
Nov 23 07:59:17 <avs> What would be the easiest way to swap between keyboard layouts in N900?
Nov 23 07:59:20 <timeless_mbp> yeah control north of south
Nov 23 07:59:32 <timeless_mbp> avs: most people use the Text Input control panel applet
Nov 23 07:59:42 <timeless_mbp> either the normal one or ukeyboard (when it isn't broken)'s
Nov 23 07:59:45 <avs> Yes
Nov 23 08:00:03 <avs> I'll rephrase
Nov 23 08:00:05 <timeless_mbp> space is kinda tiny
Nov 23 08:00:24 <pwnguin> whats the buttons on either side of space for? alphabet shifting?
Nov 23 08:00:29 <pupnik> arg too slllllow for gauntlet 2
Nov 23 08:00:40 <pupnik> curse you pulse audio!
Nov 23 08:00:59 <johnx> timeless_mbp, exactly
Nov 23 08:01:06 <timeless_mbp> pupnik: compose keys?
Nov 23 08:01:21 <pupnik> what?
Nov 23 08:01:31 <tigert> hrm
Nov 23 08:01:32 <pwnguin> timeless_mbp: im not sure what compose means
Nov 23 08:01:42 <tigert> guest session also causes 100% cpu for flash
Nov 23 08:02:00 <timeless_mbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Japanese
Nov 23 08:02:21 <timeless_mbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_input_keys
Nov 23 08:02:27 <pwnguin> On some computer systems, a compose key is a key which is designated to signal the software to interpret the next keystrokes as a combination in order to produce a character not found on the keyboard.
Nov 23 08:02:44 <timeless_mbp> probably kanji and conversion
Nov 23 08:02:53 <johnx> pwnguin, and in the case of the japanese qwerty key layouts, you'd use enter to do that
Nov 23 08:03:11 <johnx> timeless_mbp, those keys are generally for swapping between alphabets. I believe
Nov 23 08:03:18 <pwnguin> hah! :P
Nov 23 08:03:28 <timeless_mbp> ok, the left one seems to be conversion
Nov 23 08:03:31 <johnx> though, I'm used to inputting japanese (badly) on a US qwerty keyboard, so don't take my word as rule :)
Nov 23 08:03:33 <timeless_mbp> (henkan?)
Nov 23 08:03:57 <timeless_mbp> no
Nov 23 08:04:04 <timeless_mbp> the left one is alphanumeric (eisu)
Nov 23 08:04:34 <timeless_mbp> the right one, doesn't seem to be in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_input_keys :(
Nov 23 08:05:42 <johnx> timeless_mbp, the right one is kana
Nov 23 08:05:55 <timeless_mbp> so it's conversion
Nov 23 08:06:18 <timeless_mbp> or does it swap into kana entry mode from english?
Nov 23 08:06:37 <johnx> it might swap between hiragana and katakana
Nov 23 08:06:45 <timeless_mbp> oh
Nov 23 08:06:54 <timeless_mbp> yes, that glyph more closely matches
Nov 23 08:06:55 <johnx> the gana in hiragana is kana, IIRC
Nov 23 08:07:06 <timeless_mbp> so yeah, i'll buy that
Nov 23 08:07:37 <johnx> where the heck is \ ...?
Nov 23 08:07:52 <timeless_mbp> Yen! ;-)
Nov 23 08:08:04 <timeless_mbp> http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2005/09/17/469941.aspx
Nov 23 08:09:23 <johnx> heh...that makes sense then. :) I always thought it was some horrible, common font rendering glitch on the japanese version of windows :)
Nov 23 08:09:50 <timeless_mbp> it is!
Nov 23 08:10:10 * timeless_mbp has read this article a probably 4-5 times
Nov 23 08:10:35 <timeless_mbp> it's definitely worth a read if you've never read it
Nov 23 08:11:41 <johnx> yeah, just read it
Nov 23 08:11:45 <timeless_mbp> http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2004/12/14/284838.aspx is also worth a read
Nov 23 08:11:46 <johnx> hilarious
Nov 23 08:11:50 <timeless_mbp> if only for the first 3 lines of dialog
Nov 23 08:13:07 <johnx> as for input, I'm pretty sure the newer macs (more accurate maybe?) also support inputting kanji by drawing it directly on the touchpad
Nov 23 08:16:02 <timeless_mbp> yeah, i'm pretty sure that works
Nov 23 08:16:42 <timeless_mbp> btw, the final line of the conversation (might as well be the punchline) is also great
Nov 23 08:19:08 <pwnguin> is japanese unicode sort in a worse state of affairs?
Nov 23 08:19:13 <pwnguin> or simply not exist?
Nov 23 08:19:18 <pwnguin> im too ignorant to get the punch
Nov 23 08:20:31 <timeless_mbp> from the comments, it seems to be just as bad
Nov 23 08:20:36 <timeless_mbp> and hopefully just as removed
Nov 23 08:21:05 <timeless_mbp> pwnguin: the punch is having to go through the same embarrassing discussion all over again
Nov 23 08:23:45 <suihkulokki> To support this expectation, Japanese and Korean fonts, whenever the default system locale is set to Japanese or Korean, respectively, will display the currency symbol rather than the backslash when U+005c is shown.
Nov 23 08:23:49 * suihkulokki goes headdesk
Nov 23 08:24:04 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: honestly, it's actually softer than nokia stuff
Nov 23 08:24:22 <timeless_mbp> {compose ~n} on n900 or "pm"/"am" on n900
Nov 23 08:24:46 <timeless_mbp> http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2004/12/14/284838.aspx#330179 -- think about Norman's wife!
Nov 23 08:27:00 <suihkulokki> timeless_mbp: I think the problem of the "compose" or "dead key" chars in the symbol table is that there is no visible indication that the third row is different from the others
Nov 23 08:27:15 <timeless_mbp> oh
Nov 23 08:27:20 <timeless_mbp> i'm not talking about the input method
Nov 23 08:27:27 <timeless_mbp> i'm talking about the font rendering glyph
Nov 23 08:27:38 <timeless_mbp> the input method seems like something they're willing to fix
Nov 23 08:27:58 <timeless_mbp> whereas the glyph is from Nokia-On-High and Must Not Be Changed
Nov 23 08:28:30 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: you do binary hacking once in a while, right?
Nov 23 08:28:32 <ShadowJK> hm?
Nov 23 08:28:38 <timeless_mbp> can you look into a binary hack for me?
Nov 23 08:29:05 * timeless_mbp wonders how to search for {compose ~n}
Nov 23 08:29:10 <ShadowJK> I wish there was a place to go "argh" about s60 :)
Nov 23 08:29:46 <timeless_mbp> they do
Nov 23 08:29:50 <timeless_mbp> they're like tmo :)
Nov 23 08:29:55 <timeless_mbp> write once, read never
Nov 23 08:29:59 <timeless_mbp> they're probably called fnc
Nov 23 08:30:15 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: bug 5029
Nov 23 08:30:16 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5029 "ñ" (n with tilde) character slightly cut off in default font
Nov 23 08:30:42 <timeless_mbp> https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1346 for people too lazy to click twice
Nov 23 08:31:01 <hrw> morning
Nov 23 08:31:14 <timeless_mbp> the am/pm variant is from the duplicate and looks like this: https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1506
Nov 23 08:32:15 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: anyway, binary hacking
Nov 23 08:32:19 <timeless_mbp> can you help me?
Nov 23 08:32:20 * ShadowJK can't tell what's wrong with either..
Nov 23 08:32:29 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: you're blind
Nov 23 08:32:51 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: find 'Signo positivo'
Nov 23 08:33:20 <comawhite> I'm trying to install the SDK. But I get an error "Cannot connect to X server" when running as root
Nov 23 08:33:20 <timeless_mbp> please let me know when you've foudn it
Nov 23 08:33:30 <timeless_mbp> comawhite: and DISPLAY is unset?
Nov 23 08:33:34 <timeless_mbp> have you considered setting it?
Nov 23 08:33:44 <ShadowJK> first hit on google: "Matemáticas. Más (+) signo de la suma." ?
Nov 23 08:34:14 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: in the picture: https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1346
Nov 23 08:34:32 <comawhite> timeless_mbp, in root yes, but not user
Nov 23 08:34:45 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 23 08:34:50 <ShadowJK> oh :)
Nov 23 08:35:08 <timeless_mbp> please let me know when you've found it
Nov 23 08:35:23 <comawhite> sorry
Nov 23 08:35:53 <johnx> comawhite, did that work?
Nov 23 08:36:54 <comawhite> I probably did it wrong export DISPLAY=:0.0
Nov 23 08:38:38 <timeless_mbp> the sdk runs on :2.0 if you followed the directions
Nov 23 08:38:48 <timeless_mbp> although you probably want to understand the directions
Nov 23 08:39:03 <comawhite> okay sorry
Nov 23 08:39:10 <timeless_mbp> so... a short explanation of x11
Nov 23 08:39:23 <timeless_mbp> x11 has a concept of 'displays'
Nov 23 08:39:35 <timeless_mbp> if you're using a Unix, you're likely to be looking at one
Nov 23 08:39:46 <comawhite> yeah I'm on OpenSuse 11.2
Nov 23 08:39:47 <timeless_mbp> by tradition, the one managing the screen you see is :0
Nov 23 08:40:06 <timeless_mbp> the .0 part isn't worth discussing for now, but it does have a meaning (you can look it up later)
Nov 23 08:40:14 <RST38h> And no, 11.2 is not your X11 screen number
Nov 23 08:40:17 <timeless_mbp> :1 would be the first additional display
Nov 23 08:40:33 <timeless_mbp> my guess is that the sdk people assumed people were likely to potentially be using that display
Nov 23 08:40:43 <timeless_mbp> so they chose to use the next logical one, namely :2
Nov 23 08:40:52 <timeless_mbp> effectively x11 listens to a specific port
Nov 23 08:40:56 <timeless_mbp> Xbase + Displaynumber
Nov 23 08:41:13 <timeless_mbp> Xbase=6000
Nov 23 08:41:19 <timeless_mbp> so :2 is really :6002
Nov 23 08:41:25 <timeless_mbp> but that's not really too interesting
Nov 23 08:41:33 * alterego is interested ..
Nov 23 08:41:58 <timeless_mbp> from memory, x11 forwarding starts with :10
Nov 23 08:42:10 <timeless_mbp> because it is trying to avoid colliding with :1..:9
Nov 23 08:42:20 <timeless_mbp> ...x11 forwarding over ssh...
Nov 23 08:42:27 <comawhite> well as normal user $DISPLAY=:0.0
Nov 23 08:42:32 <timeless_mbp> yep
Nov 23 08:42:37 <timeless_mbp> and that's your normal screen
Nov 23 08:42:42 <timeless_mbp> but the sdk runs its own xserver
Nov 23 08:42:50 <timeless_mbp> which draws things into its constrained space
Nov 23 08:42:59 <timeless_mbp> 800x480x16alpha ?
Nov 23 08:43:09 <timeless_mbp> with its own potential dpi
Nov 23 08:43:18 <timeless_mbp> and with its own constraints
Nov 23 08:43:29 <timeless_mbp> (potentially a distinct clipboard, no ability to drag in / out of that surface)
Nov 23 08:43:51 * ali1234 sighs
Nov 23 08:43:52 <timeless_mbp> now, typically you'll run the sdk x11 server display such that it paints into your default display (:0)
Nov 23 08:44:02 <ali1234> thanks for that wonderful but useless explanation of how X11 works
Nov 23 08:44:04 <timeless_mbp> but that isn't a requirement ... if you happened to have another display somewhere else
Nov 23 08:44:10 <timeless_mbp> anyway...
Nov 23 08:44:15 <ali1234> now i will attempt to actually help this guy
Nov 23 08:44:21 <alterego> Yeah, I run my Xephyr through ssh
Nov 23 08:44:25 <ali1234> comawhite: are you attempting to run the GUI installer?
Nov 23 08:44:47 <timeless_mbp> each xserver has its own access control rules, and a magic cookie
Nov 23 08:44:48 <comawhite> correct
Nov 23 08:45:06 <ali1234> comawhite: and how did you aquire root access to do so? with su? sudo?
Nov 23 08:45:15 <timeless_mbp> fakeroot? :)
Nov 23 08:45:20 <comawhite> su, sudo su -, sudo
Nov 23 08:45:35 <comawhite> yeah I have root access
Nov 23 08:46:05 <comawhite> I never had to set a root display before, that's why I feel like a dumbarse :P
Nov 23 08:46:08 <timeless_mbp> hrm, sorry, i mis-parsed the original "cannot install sdk"
Nov 23 08:46:20 <timeless_mbp> for some reason i assumed you meant "cannot use the sdk"
Nov 23 08:46:28 <timeless_mbp> your original statement was entirely correct
Nov 23 08:46:47 <ali1234> well, here's the amazing thing: neither sudo nor su actually configure X permissions properly, and as such, using them to run GUI programs is actually dangerous
Nov 23 08:46:53 <alterego> Anyone know of any Nokia discount codes anywhere?
Nov 23 08:47:01 <alterego> Like the twitter one that expired last month?
Nov 23 08:47:12 <timeless_mbp> alterego: give me 1000EUR, i'll find you an n900 and arrange shipping :)
Nov 23 08:47:16 <ali1234> comawhite: try running, as your regular user, "gksudo ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py"
Nov 23 08:47:19 <timeless_mbp> probably not such a good discount, but hey :)
Nov 23 08:47:25 <alterego> Heh
Nov 23 08:48:00 <ali1234> comawhite: or, if you're using kde, "ksudo ..."
Nov 23 08:48:05 <ali1234> or is it kdesudo
Nov 23 08:48:08 <ShadowJK> timeless_mbp: how fast will 1000e get me a n900? :-)
Nov 23 08:48:13 <comawhite> comawhite@linux-yy63:~/Download> sudo ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py
Nov 23 08:48:13 <comawhite> : cannot connect to X server
Nov 23 08:48:21 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: hrm, i'm thinking next day within europe
Nov 23 08:48:22 <ali1234> comawhite: "gksudo"
Nov 23 08:48:28 <timeless_mbp> i'll walk down to the nokia flagship store here
Nov 23 08:48:30 <ShadowJK> lol
Nov 23 08:48:35 <timeless_mbp> and then personally walk it to a DHL
Nov 23 08:48:49 <ShadowJK> I thought flagship store started selling on 27th
Nov 23 08:48:55 <timeless_mbp> dunno
Nov 23 08:49:04 <timeless_mbp> i know that the flagship here had a *huge* n900 in one of the windows
Nov 23 08:49:12 <timeless_mbp> i need to walk there and take photos of it
Nov 23 08:49:19 <alterego> I could phone up the London store, see if they'll reserve me one and notify me when it appears, then get a train to London and buy it.
Nov 23 08:49:22 <alterego> I like that idea.
Nov 23 08:49:24 <Lynoure> huge n900 does not sound like a win :)
Nov 23 08:49:24 <ShadowJK> and that nokia online shop fi, which seems somewhat related to the flagship store, ran out of N900s and couldn't fill all preorders
Nov 23 08:49:26 <timeless_mbp> there was a blog post earlier today indicating the chicago store is selling them
Nov 23 08:49:27 <comawhite> ali1234, I don't have gksudo
Nov 23 08:49:35 <SpeedEvil> A working one with a 35" monitor would be so funny.
Nov 23 08:49:42 <ali1234> comawhite: do you use kde or gnome or something else?
Nov 23 08:49:43 <timeless_mbp> ali1234: personally i'd use ssh root@localhost :)
Nov 23 08:49:50 <comawhite> KDE4
Nov 23 08:49:53 <timeless_mbp> (with x11 forwarding...)
Nov 23 08:50:02 <ali1234> timeless_mbp: you mean ssh -X of course, and you shouldnt allow root login on ssh
Nov 23 08:50:12 <timeless_mbp> ali1234: key'd login ;-)
Nov 23 08:50:21 <ali1234> comawhite: ok then use "kdesu"
Nov 23 08:50:40 <alterego> Back into the wonderful world of Direct Show filters and windows :(
Nov 23 08:50:43 * alterego vomits
Nov 23 08:50:45 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: oh wow
Nov 23 08:50:48 <comawhite> ali1234, okay did that, and it executed but nothing is happening
Nov 23 08:50:59 <ali1234> comawhite: "kdesu ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py"
Nov 23 08:51:45 <ShadowJK> timeless_mbp: the deterrents clearly have not worked ;)
Nov 23 08:52:04 <comawhite> ali1234, same thing, nothing happened after executing
Nov 23 08:52:05 <comawhite> lol
Nov 23 08:52:20 <comawhite> Sorry about this problem :(
Nov 23 08:52:21 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: we try to pen up demand
Nov 23 08:52:25 <timeless_mbp> clearly we succeeded :)
Nov 23 08:52:31 <alterego> comawhite: can you pastbin.org the output of 'sudo env'
Nov 23 08:54:14 <comawhite> alterego, http://pastebin.ca/1683430
Nov 23 08:54:20 <timeless_mbp> ali1234: you could give up and void permissions or steal a cookie ;-)
Nov 23 08:54:48 * timeless_mbp is not beyond stealing cookies
Nov 23 08:54:51 <ali1234> timeless_mbp: there is obviously some other problem at work here, X permissions are fixed by kdesu
Nov 23 08:55:13 <timeless_mbp> ali1234: there you go trying to fix problems
Nov 23 08:55:18 <timeless_mbp> where's the fun in that? :)
Nov 23 08:55:30 <timeless_mbp> but yeah, i'm interested in learning what the root problem is
Nov 23 08:55:33 <timeless_mbp> it sounds interesting
Nov 23 08:55:59 <ali1234> i'm guessing it's either opensuse badness or the gui installer is broken in an unusual way
Nov 23 08:56:16 <alterego> Does it use Qt?
Nov 23 08:57:07 <comawhite> PyQt4
Nov 23 08:59:49 <timeless_mbp> ali1234: a nokia installer that's broken? it can't be! say it ain't so!
Nov 23 09:00:07 <timeless_mbp> oh err, nevermind. if i had a dollar each time it was, i'd be rich
Nov 23 09:00:21 <ShadowJK> computers suck :/
Nov 23 09:00:28 <ShadowJK> or computing
Nov 23 09:00:39 <ali1234> well, i don't see any way that the script can exit without any output
Nov 23 09:00:53 <comawhite> haha lookie what I found xP
Nov 23 09:00:53 <comawhite> http://en.opensuse.org/Maemo#Running_the_SDK
Nov 23 09:01:31 <comawhite> seems to be outdate as it talks about 4
Nov 23 09:01:43 <alterego> comawhite: the fundamentals are the same.
Nov 23 09:01:50 <comawhite> where here's 5: http://en.opensuse.org/Maemo5
Nov 23 09:02:01 <alterego> Hahah, nice.
Nov 23 09:02:33 <comawhite> xP
Nov 23 09:02:37 <ali1234> awesome, this installer does exactly the same for me: run it, it quits with no output
Nov 23 09:02:45 <comawhite> mhmm
Nov 23 09:03:10 <ali1234> although i do already have the SDK installed
Nov 23 09:03:47 <comawhite> crazy shit
Nov 23 09:03:49 <ali1234> ah
Nov 23 09:04:22 <ali1234> comawhite: did you do: 'chmod a+x maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py'
Nov 23 09:04:45 <ali1234> if not, do it, run it with kdesu again
Nov 23 09:06:25 <comawhite> no output
Nov 23 09:06:34 <comawhite> brb in 10 minutes
Nov 23 09:15:47 <comawhite> im back
Nov 23 09:18:18 <ali1234> well...
Nov 23 09:22:43 <comawhite> ali1234, I got it working
Nov 23 09:22:50 <comawhite> export DISPLAY=:0
Nov 23 09:22:50 <ali1234> what did you do?
Nov 23 09:22:55 <comawhite> xD
Nov 23 09:23:05 <ali1234> lol
Nov 23 09:23:20 <comawhite> ali1234, I did :2 but got issues :S
Nov 23 09:23:26 <ali1234> yeah
Nov 23 09:23:37 <ali1234> that stuff is for *after* yu have got the SDK installed
Nov 23 09:24:28 <comawhite> ah
Nov 23 09:27:13 <comawhite> E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture.
Nov 23 09:27:13 <comawhite> lol
Nov 23 09:27:37 <johnx> wow, today is really not your lucky day :)
Nov 23 09:27:47 <comawhite> nope xP
Nov 23 09:27:56 <comawhite> do I need scratchbox before the installer?
Nov 23 09:29:13 <comawhite> no, because the gui installer has it with it
Nov 23 09:29:42 <ali1234> the installer... installs it
Nov 23 09:29:51 <comawhite> yeah just read it
Nov 23 09:30:31 <ali1234> it's supposed to work for 64 bit but perhaps that is dependent on distribution
Nov 23 09:31:08 <ali1234> consider using the virtual machine image
Nov 23 09:32:00 <comawhite> yeah
Nov 23 09:32:19 <comawhite> "Using SDK on x86_64 is not supported, but you can install it anyways"
Nov 23 09:33:55 <jjo> it runs fine on 64-bit machines
Nov 23 09:34:18 <jjo> it's just the there is no 64-bit version of scratchbox
Nov 23 09:34:22 <comawhite> okay good :)
Nov 23 09:34:30 <zaheerm> it works on my fedora x86_64 machine
Nov 23 09:34:32 <comawhite> yeah I'll have to manually install it
Nov 23 09:34:45 <jjo> but we haven't run into any problems running the 32-bit on 64-bit machines
Nov 23 09:35:05 <comawhite> yeah there shouldn't be issues running 32bit apps on 64bi
Nov 23 09:35:09 <comawhite> 64bit*
Nov 23 09:35:41 <jjo> the sb-installer has a switch for that
Nov 23 09:36:24 * comawhite cries because he wants a n900
Nov 23 09:36:25 <comawhite> :P
Nov 23 09:36:57 <comawhite> im installing the sdk so I can have the emulator to port my app to the thing
Nov 23 09:40:25 <mae-sko> hi
Nov 23 09:40:43 <comawhite> hallo
Nov 23 09:41:00 <mae-sko> From where can i install gtk.glade library for python? so that import gtk.glade works
Nov 23 09:41:25 <comawhite> no idea
Nov 23 09:41:25 <mae-sko> I'm totally novice to maemo and apt-get tool
Nov 23 09:41:38 <comawhite> shouldn't it be in the sdk?
Nov 23 09:42:04 <mae-sko> i have "fremantle" and it is not
Nov 23 09:42:13 <ali1234> the sdk has extra stuff you can install with apt-get
Nov 23 09:42:27 <mae-sko> If i just could know how to search .deb packages..
Nov 23 09:42:35 <comawhite> aptitude?
Nov 23 09:42:42 <ali1234> mae-sko: apt-cache search <pattern>
Nov 23 09:42:57 <ali1234> in this case you probably want to apt-get install python-glade2
Nov 23 09:43:44 <mae-sko> heey.. I think Im near solution..
Nov 23 09:46:23 <mae-sko> So the solution was to install python-glade2 not python.glade.. One step forward. Thanks!!
Nov 23 09:47:00 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 23 09:47:12 <timeless_mbp> the n900 doesn't support tinyarro.ws
Nov 23 09:53:30 <SpeedEvil> Rather silly site.
Nov 23 09:56:44 <comawhite> E: Downloaded armel rootstrap file failed integrity test.
Nov 23 10:03:08 <timeless_mbp> right so um
Nov 23 10:03:15 <timeless_mbp> i'm back to needing a way to hunt for pids
Nov 23 10:03:24 <timeless_mbp> in postinst, who's my parent pid?
Nov 23 10:03:30 <timeless_mbp> dpkg?
Nov 23 10:04:29 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: $PPID ?
Nov 23 10:04:45 <timeless_mbp> well $PPID would *tell me* who my parent is
Nov 23 10:04:48 <timeless_mbp> but is dpkg my parent?
Nov 23 10:04:54 <timeless_mbp> slight distinction
Nov 23 10:05:05 <adeus> $PPID
Nov 23 10:05:06 <SpeedEvil> timeless_mbp: I prefer the ebay short URL service.
Nov 23 10:05:17 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: you mean in a generic way?
Nov 23 10:05:19 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: you obviously didn't get an email asking about IDN support
Nov 23 10:05:21 <SpeedEvil> timeless_mbp: Set $5 bids on all the 4 letter domains.
Nov 23 10:05:28 <ali1234> timeless_mbp: cat /proc/$PPID/status | grep Name
Nov 23 10:05:37 <timeless_mbp> ali1234: yeah, i'm going to do something like that
Nov 23 10:05:55 <timeless_mbp> i need to figure out if dpkg and ham are my parents
Nov 23 10:06:01 <timeless_mbp> but it occurs to me that ham isn't going to be my parent
Nov 23 10:06:04 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: you want to make sure you're run by dpkg and nothing else?
Nov 23 10:06:09 <timeless_mbp> because it probably uses apt-worker
Nov 23 10:06:13 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: no
Nov 23 10:06:31 <timeless_mbp> i want to find the process the user picked to install me and wait for it to die
Nov 23 10:06:35 <timeless_mbp> and then i want to annoy the user
Nov 23 10:06:56 <timeless_mbp> i haven't figured out my definition of that yet
Nov 23 10:06:57 <Corsac> can't you use a trigger?
Nov 23 10:07:00 <timeless_mbp> it might be apt or apt-worker
Nov 23 10:07:08 <Corsac> which will run after dpkg work
Nov 23 10:07:29 <Corsac> (http://www.dpkg.org/dpkg/Triggers)
Nov 23 10:07:30 <timeless_mbp> trigger sounds nice
Nov 23 10:07:32 <timeless_mbp> yep, reading
Nov 23 10:07:53 <Corsac> though you might not control precisely when it's run, which might not be ok for you
Nov 23 10:07:55 <convulted> Hey all -- is extras-devel down? I get the "no hash entry in release file" error when I try to update the app manager
Nov 23 10:07:57 <timeless_mbp> ok, not very helpful
Nov 23 10:08:07 <timeless_mbp> convulted: it's periodically (albeit chaotically) down
Nov 23 10:08:14 <timeless_mbp> try again in 5mins is my general rule of thumb
Nov 23 10:08:18 <convulted> timeless_mbp: thanks :)
Nov 23 10:08:22 <timeless_mbp> (and repeat every 5mins until it changes its mind)
Nov 23 10:08:25 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: you want to do the reboot thing, not just only ask the user to do it?
Nov 23 10:08:32 <timeless_mbp> i want to ask the user
Nov 23 10:08:33 <papo> hello
Nov 23 10:08:38 <timeless_mbp> but i don't want to reboot until dpkg finishes
Nov 23 10:08:40 <timeless_mbp> a trigger sounds right
Nov 23 10:08:46 <timeless_mbp> can i trigger any path/app i like?
Nov 23 10:09:31 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: don't suppose you know if dpkg-trigger is actually supported? :)
Nov 23 10:09:53 <Corsac> yeah, you declare in your trigger which path you're interested in, and when that path is touched, you'll be run eventually
Nov 23 10:10:06 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: it's supported since lenny, not sure about the dpkg version in fremantle
Nov 23 10:10:22 <papo> on amazon, the U.S. version of the N900 is available as pre-oder. I'm wondering how the U.S. versions differs from other versions and what other versions exist
Nov 23 10:10:32 <timeless_mbp> papo: the keyboard sucks less
Nov 23 10:10:35 <SpeedEvil> papo: hardware - barring keyb - is identical
Nov 23 10:10:37 <timeless_mbp> the product costs less
Nov 23 10:10:43 <timeless_mbp> you get much more map data for your money
Nov 23 10:10:44 <Corsac> 1.14.17 is the first trigger version
Nov 23 10:10:46 <papo> I found a couple of forum posts on that, but the information there is quite inconclusive
Nov 23 10:10:53 <timeless_mbp> (the map data sucks more, so you're getting more bad data)
Nov 23 10:11:04 <timeless_mbp> papo: and you get a power adapter which fits into your wall
Nov 23 10:11:09 <SpeedEvil> TIGER has a lot to answer for.
Nov 23 10:11:11 <timeless_mbp> that's about all of the differences
Nov 23 10:11:19 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: but I don't know how much dpkg is modified in fremantle, too
Nov 23 10:11:28 <timeless_mbp> papo: oh, the manual/warranty text is likely to be longer and have more legalese :)
Nov 23 10:11:39 <timeless_mbp> so you're probably paying for a couple of extra dead trees
Nov 23 10:11:46 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: understood
Nov 23 10:11:54 <SpeedEvil> And in .ch you will have a better returns policy, and maybe warranty
Nov 23 10:11:56 <timeless_mbp> you're describing upstream, it's better than nothing
Nov 23 10:11:58 <SpeedEvil> IIRC
Nov 23 10:12:12 <papo> timeless_mbp: well the one on amazon is cheaper than what I'd pay for a pre-order in my country. And I'd be sure to have a keyboard with 4 cursor keys
Nov 23 10:12:15 <timeless_mbp> papo: oh, in the us there are 2 nokia flagship stores
Nov 23 10:12:22 <ali1234> timeless_mbp: what app is this for?
Nov 23 10:12:34 <Corsac> papo: if you're not in the us, us amazon might not want to ship it to you
Nov 23 10:12:34 <timeless_mbp> papo: oh, you're not in the .us
Nov 23 10:12:38 <ali1234> s/app/package/
Nov 23 10:12:38 <infobot> ali1234 meant: timeless_mbp: what package is this for?
Nov 23 10:12:42 <timeless_mbp> officially someone is going to want you to pay an input tax
Nov 23 10:12:45 <timeless_mbp> ali1234: enus1
Nov 23 10:12:54 <timeless_mbp> timeless.justdave.net/maemo/os2009repo/
Nov 23 10:12:56 <papo> Corsac: according to their website, they would ship it
Nov 23 10:13:01 <Corsac> oh?
Nov 23 10:13:07 <Corsac> where are you located?
Nov 23 10:13:12 <timeless_mbp> => ali1234  (and optionally Corsac )
Nov 23 10:13:18 <papo> timeless_mbp: Switzerland. But I'm not sure about the input tax, you're right
Nov 23 10:13:27 <timeless_mbp> the reboot bits aren't included yet since they work differently
Nov 23 10:13:32 <johnx> and you're ok with a plain qwerty keyboard?
Nov 23 10:13:42 <timeless_mbp> papo: a high level nokia guy was famously arrested for violating import/export laws in .ch
Nov 23 10:13:51 <timeless_mbp> johnx: likely
Nov 23 10:13:52 <johnx> only other thing to think about is wifi channels, but I think that's set by software
Nov 23 10:13:56 <timeless_mbp> the swiss seem to be fairly tolerant
Nov 23 10:14:01 <timeless_mbp> johnx: it is set by software
Nov 23 10:14:02 <papo> timeless_mbp: Polanski is not a nokia guy
Nov 23 10:14:04 <Corsac> papo: btw, it'll have less wireless chans available
Nov 23 10:14:12 <papo> Corsac: hm good point
Nov 23 10:14:36 <johnx> but those channels are just a software setting anyways. easy to "fix" once you get it ;)
Nov 23 10:14:36 <convulted> Can anyone point me to a changelog (of sorts) between the .42-2 N900 firmware and the current .42-11?
Nov 23 10:14:48 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: eh? we don't actually make different hardware
Nov 23 10:15:00 <timeless_mbp> the only differences are the keymat and the charger
Nov 23 10:15:00 <papo> johnx: yes I write 7bit clean even in German. Nobody can tell me whether the cursor keys are going to be reduced if I buy it here, so I'm very unsure about what to do
Nov 23 10:15:05 <timeless_mbp> the rest is packaging
Nov 23 10:15:19 <timeless_mbp> papo: the german layout should have only 2 arrow keys
Nov 23 10:15:24 <timeless_mbp> because you want your SS key
Nov 23 10:15:29 <timeless_mbp> and don't ask me what other key you pay for
Nov 23 10:15:48 <papo> timeless_mbp: Hm that's what I'm afraid of. Though I've seen some picture with a QWERTZ layout and 4 cursor keys
Nov 23 10:15:55 <timeless_mbp> hrm
Nov 23 10:16:02 <timeless_mbp> i could be wrong, but i was pretty sure
Nov 23 10:16:03 <timeless_mbp> lemme check
Nov 23 10:16:07 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: yeah but I think you may have a regulation daemon or something which should prevent wireless to go after 11
Nov 23 10:16:09 <papo> timeless_mbp: We're probably going to want the umlaut keys
Nov 23 10:16:12 <papo> and yes, the ß
Nov 23 10:16:13 <SpeedEvil> The key layout - the actual layout - no thte labels - don't change?
Nov 23 10:16:17 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: though maybe it's only software
Nov 23 10:16:33 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: it figures out which area you're in
Nov 23 10:16:42 <timeless_mbp> (there's syslog or similar spam mentioning detection/change)
Nov 23 10:16:49 <timeless_mbp> remember, i've been to the us w/ my n900s :)
Nov 23 10:16:57 <Corsac> :)
Nov 23 10:17:03 <timeless_mbp> well, i took 2, only one returned w/ me, the other decided to go to Germany first
Nov 23 10:17:34 <timeless_mbp> :a:o:u
Nov 23 10:17:40 <papo> timeless_mbp: actually it's rather tricky to find out what will be shipped in Germany and even harder for Swotzerland
Nov 23 10:17:40 <timeless_mbp> are your three wonderful keys
Nov 23 10:17:54 <timeless_mbp> that's what you get, and the price you pay is losing up/down arrows
Nov 23 10:18:08 <timeless_mbp> papo: Italian, German or French? :)
Nov 23 10:18:18 <papo> timeless_mbp: Zurich, German part
Nov 23 10:18:22 <timeless_mbp> i'm assuming your in eastern .ch instead of western
Nov 23 10:18:26 <Corsac> (was there pictures of the french keyboard?)
Nov 23 10:18:28 <timeless_mbp> papo: yep
Nov 23 10:18:43 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: do you want pictures or info?
Nov 23 10:18:51 <Corsac> just to see the layout
Nov 23 10:18:56 <papo> timeless_mbp: Swiss orthography does not include the 'SS'-thing, but Nokia is probably not going to make a special layout for 7 million people
Nov 23 10:18:56 <timeless_mbp> besides the keymaps are probably open source on mxr.maemo.org/fremantle
Nov 23 10:19:16 <tbf> i clearly prefer pressing fn+sym and tapping ¨ to get umlauts, over loosing arrow keys
Nov 23 10:19:17 <Corsac> yeah but the hardware keyboard is not in mxr I guess?
Nov 23 10:19:18 <timeless_mbp> actually, i have no idea how to enter SS
Nov 23 10:19:33 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: the mapping probably is
Nov 23 10:19:37 <papo> timeless_mbp: http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9900/n900de.png this is a layout I'd buy
Nov 23 10:19:38 <timeless_mbp> it's a vkb file
Nov 23 10:19:52 <papo> timeless_mbp: that's qwertz but with 4 cursor keys
Nov 23 10:19:54 <timeless_mbp> papo: that's en
Nov 23 10:20:02 <timeless_mbp> you can buy it from .us, .uk, .nl
Nov 23 10:20:05 <timeless_mbp> (roughly)
Nov 23 10:20:08 <papo> timeless_mbp: sure? There's a Z in the top row
Nov 23 10:20:13 <papo> instead of a Y
Nov 23 10:20:15 <johnx> whoa
Nov 23 10:20:18 <timeless_mbp> oh
Nov 23 10:20:20 <timeless_mbp> weird
Nov 23 10:20:21 <timeless_mbp> wtf
Nov 23 10:20:25 <timeless_mbp> that's broken
Nov 23 10:20:25 <convulted> timeless_mbp: do you know anyone I can buzz about the extras-devel issue?
Nov 23 10:20:28 <johnx> is that a photoshop?
Nov 23 10:20:42 <RST38h> "Customers of online tat bazaar eBay were on Friday denied the chance to bid for bits of former Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, when the site swiftly pulled a listing for samples of his blood and brain."
Nov 23 10:20:43 <timeless_mbp> convulted: it's blogged
Nov 23 10:20:47 <timeless_mbp> johnx: it has to be
Nov 23 10:20:50 <papo> johnx: that's my concern. I have no information about how reliable this picture is
Nov 23 10:20:51 <timeless_mbp> papo: it doesn't exist
Nov 23 10:20:59 <timeless_mbp> i'm using the keymap now
Nov 23 10:21:00 <papo> well awesome then
Nov 23 10:21:04 <timeless_mbp> the :'s i mentioned are live
Nov 23 10:21:06 <timeless_mbp> well
Nov 23 10:21:07 <timeless_mbp> hrm
Nov 23 10:21:12 <timeless_mbp> unless ukeyboard ****d me
Nov 23 10:21:14 <tbf> timeless_mbp: i've asked mr. input methods about ß
Nov 23 10:21:17 <timeless_mbp> which is possible, but unlikely
Nov 23 10:21:36 <johnx> in the most legitimate case it was some kind of one off that someone tested at some point
Nov 23 10:21:53 <timeless_mbp> so
Nov 23 10:21:56 <timeless_mbp> speaking from history
Nov 23 10:22:06 <timeless_mbp> we were told that *none* of the localized keyboards would have 4 arrow keys
Nov 23 10:22:23 <timeless_mbp> and i've been trying to tell devs that for a number of months
Nov 23 10:22:32 <timeless_mbp> that little i remember
Nov 23 10:22:49 <papo> hm ok that's not cool... so I definitely have to buy one from uk, us or some other place with 4 arrow keys... I never use umlauts but I imagine myself using the arrows quite a lot
Nov 23 10:23:08 <timeless_mbp> papo: i could be wrong
Nov 23 10:23:11 <timeless_mbp> i just highly doubt it :)
Nov 23 10:23:14 <convulted> timeless_mbp: hmmm; I only got the irc logs when I googled it
Nov 23 10:23:15 <papo> hm ok
Nov 23 10:23:17 <sp3000> well
Nov 23 10:23:23 <sp3000> xkb_symbols "pl" {
Nov 23 10:23:25 <sp3000>     include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(english_base)"
Nov 23 10:23:27 <sp3000>     include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(arrows_4btns)"
Nov 23 10:23:55 <papo> timeless_mbp: any chances to get even more reliable information on that? (Don't get me wrong, this is the most reliable statement I got so far, so thank you for that)
Nov 23 10:24:06 <papo> it's just that this is rather important to me
Nov 23 10:24:20 <timeless_mbp> papo: any internal could read the official spec
Nov 23 10:24:22 <timeless_mbp> i don't want to
Nov 23 10:24:25 <sp3000> xkb_symbols "de" {
Nov 23 10:24:27 <sp3000>     include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(english_base)"
Nov 23 10:24:28 <sp3000>     include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(arrows_2btns)"
Nov 23 10:24:36 <timeless_mbp> anyone with an n900 can swap to german
Nov 23 10:24:55 <tbf> papo: timeless_mbp: official german keyboard layout has up/down on fn+left/right, separate keys for ä, ö, ü at english up, dot and comma
Nov 23 10:25:05 <papo> tbf: of, thank you
Nov 23 10:25:08 <tbf> papo: timeless_mbp: ß on german layout is reached via fn+ü
Nov 23 10:25:08 <papo> ok I mean
Nov 23 10:25:21 <timeless_mbp> yeah, i thought it was hidden in an fn
Nov 23 10:25:23 <papo> so the U.S. version it is, then
Nov 23 10:25:25 <timeless_mbp> but i didn't feel like fishing for it
Nov 23 10:25:42 <papo> tbf: and just to be sure, there is no Swiss version, or is it?
Nov 23 10:25:53 <timeless_mbp> papo: there isn't
Nov 23 10:25:54 <tbf> papo: i can check
Nov 23 10:25:55 <timeless_mbp> what's the point
Nov 23 10:26:03 <timeless_mbp> swiss german, swiss italian, swiss french?
Nov 23 10:26:33 <papo> timeless_mbp: they do it for keyboards. The point is that I'd have to investigate into the Swiss layout instead of the German one to get answers to my question
Nov 23 10:26:35 <timeless_mbp> there's neither a localization nor a region for switzerland
Nov 23 10:26:46 <timeless_mbp> papo: it isn't in my n900's set
Nov 23 10:26:47 <tbf> papo: no, there is no separate swiss layout as far as i can see
Nov 23 10:27:00 <timeless_mbp> i'm running a slightly out of date version, but we wouldn't have added it
Nov 23 10:27:05 <timeless_mbp> sorry, your market isn't big enough
Nov 23 10:27:13 <timeless_mbp> and trust me, our testing would fail, you wouldn't want it anyway :)
Nov 23 10:27:21 <timeless_mbp> germany will get better testing
Nov 23 10:27:28 <papo> timeless_mbp: yes that's what I thought. However, there are *ordinary* keyboards with a distinct layout for de_ch and fr_ch (and probably it_ch even)
Nov 23 10:27:38 <timeless_mbp> yeah
Nov 23 10:27:41 <papo> tbf: ok great, then I'm placing my order, thank you :)
Nov 23 10:27:45 <timeless_mbp> but given that SS is already hidden on an fn-
Nov 23 10:27:49 <timeless_mbp> it's not a big deal
Nov 23 10:27:56 <timeless_mbp> i'm not sure what character you've lost by doing that
Nov 23 10:28:01 <timeless_mbp> you can always replace the keyboard layouts
Nov 23 10:28:09 <timeless_mbp> ukeyboard (often broken, but..) does that
Nov 23 10:29:09 <papo> yeah but I don't feel very comfortable with using a keyboard with a different layout. US on a US keyboard is fine and Swiss on a Swiss keyboard as well, but I get utterly confused if the keyboard has different labels than what is actually appearing on the screen
Nov 23 10:30:42 <timeless_mbp> ok, i probably overstepped
Nov 23 10:30:53 <timeless_mbp> my statements only apply to the n900 as it should be in stores today
Nov 23 10:31:07 <timeless_mbp> hypothetically an n900 that might be sold with some future software version might be different
Nov 23 10:31:16 <timeless_mbp> a case that won't happen but would work for example:
Nov 23 10:31:28 <timeless_mbp> the n900 today doesn't offer Brazilian Portuguese
Nov 23 10:31:39 <timeless_mbp> hypothetically we could have updated software which includes it
Nov 23 10:32:03 <timeless_mbp> (we almost certainly won't see lawsuit over 'ovi', but it works as a hypothetical)
Nov 23 10:32:25 <timeless_mbp> s/won't see/won't -- see/
Nov 23 10:32:26 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: (we almost certainly won't -- see lawsuit over 'ovi', but it works as a hypothetical)
Nov 23 10:32:42 <timeless_mbp> anyway, purchasing a phone is a big decision
Nov 23 10:32:59 <timeless_mbp> it's ~720USD or 900USD (if you prefer to pay in EUR)
Nov 23 10:33:17 <timeless_mbp> if you need a phone _now_ and think the n900 is the phone for you, then waiting doesn't make sense
Nov 23 10:33:38 <timeless_mbp> if you like your current phone and are willing to let others shake out the bugs while you suffer with your older phone, that's your choice :)
Nov 23 10:34:44 <timeless_mbp> (the 720USD is 650USD list price + tax v. 600 EUR at a 1.5USD : 1EUR exchange, vat assumed, shipping not included)
Nov 23 10:36:20 <timeless_mbp> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/xkeyboard-config/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51
Nov 23 10:36:25 <timeless_mbp> is the official answer for the keymap
Nov 23 10:36:34 <timeless_mbp> sorry, i'm not very good at browsing through that tree
Nov 23 10:36:41 <convulted> timeless_mbp: do you know if there is something I can do to be able to use extras-devel, or should I just wait?
Nov 23 10:36:46 <timeless_mbp> i knew it was there, and i was staring at the symbols/ directory
Nov 23 10:37:04 <timeless_mbp> convulted: so, the problem afaiu is that the autobuilder randomly corrupts the repo db
Nov 23 10:37:12 <timeless_mbp> and a future autobuilder build can fix it
Nov 23 10:37:24 <timeless_mbp> my assumption has been that such things happen periodically
Nov 23 10:37:29 <timeless_mbp> i could be wrong
Nov 23 10:37:51 <timeless_mbp> you should be able to do work manually if you don't mind the extra work
Nov 23 10:37:54 <convulted> timeless_mbp: ah ok, so waiting is the answer :S ... back to work then :)
Nov 23 10:37:57 <timeless_mbp> it depends on how desperate you are
Nov 23 10:38:20 <timeless_mbp> i could be wrong, ... but i don't think so (audio:monk)
Nov 23 10:38:23 <convulted> not too much, actually; i'd just like to see whether my package works (first package...)
Nov 23 10:38:43 <timeless_mbp> did you build it locally or only w/ the builder?
Nov 23 10:39:03 <convulted> i used py2deb (yes, yes, python) and submitted it to the builder
Nov 23 10:39:22 <timeless_mbp> papo: polanski is the director
Nov 23 10:39:33 <timeless_mbp> i'm talking about some nokian who did something stupid many years ago
Nov 23 10:39:37 <convulted> interestingly, i got no email from the autobuilder saying the build succeeded, but it says build successful on the web
Nov 23 10:39:38 <timeless_mbp> it's in nokia lore
Nov 23 10:39:59 <convulted> so I might have broken it :)
Nov 23 10:40:24 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 23 10:40:33 * timeless_mbp frowns
Nov 23 10:40:38 <timeless_mbp> i can't find the name of that guy
Nov 23 10:40:49 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki / tbf / sp3000 : pointers? :)
Nov 23 10:42:43 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: there has been only one Nokian that did anything stupid? =)
Nov 23 10:42:54 <timeless_mbp> in switzerland! that i've heard of !
Nov 23 10:43:00 <timeless_mbp> involving customs.
Nov 23 10:43:06 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: and you don't mean the Nokia chick that went ballistic with a gun in 2000 or so?
Nov 23 10:43:19 <timeless_mbp> nope, haven't heard about that one
Nov 23 10:43:26 <timeless_mbp> i'm pretty sure this was some high level nokian
Nov 23 10:43:30 <murrayc> Was that for being called a chick?
Nov 23 10:43:36 <timeless_mbp> who bought some very very expensive item in switzerland
Nov 23 10:43:44 <timeless_mbp> and then didn't declare it when he went through customs
Nov 23 10:46:31 <skrankki> kallasvuo ^^
Nov 23 10:47:17 <VDVsx> jeremiah, ping
Nov 23 10:48:09 <timeless_mbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olli-Pekka_Kallasvuo#Tax_evasion_conviction
Nov 23 10:48:12 <timeless_mbp> skrankki: thanks :)
Nov 23 10:48:50 <timeless_mbp> wait, is he the current CEO?
Nov 23 10:48:58 <timeless_mbp> oh yeah. opk
Nov 23 10:48:59 <timeless_mbp> :)
Nov 23 10:49:09 <timeless_mbp> ("i love this company")
Nov 23 10:49:53 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: see, he's famous :)
Nov 23 10:50:07 <suihkulokki> Lynoure: you mean sanna sillanpää?
Nov 23 10:51:23 <timeless_mbp> http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2009/09/23/9898441.aspx
Nov 23 10:51:35 <timeless_mbp> i like the disclaimer at the bottom of that post :)
Nov 23 10:53:31 <adeus> only drug dealers and programmers call their customers users
Nov 23 10:54:03 <alterego> Hahah
Nov 23 10:54:05 <timeless_mbp> lol
Nov 23 10:54:52 <_|Nix|_> Hey! Will extras-devel ever be fixed? I don't want to have to promote every package to extras-testing just to test a real, live-fire upgrade ...
Nov 23 10:55:20 <convulted> _|Nix|_: Glad I'm not the only one with the issue...
Nov 23 10:55:40 <alterego> What's wrong with extras-devel?
Nov 23 10:56:13 <convulted> alterego: Cannot update the package list on the device ("no hash entry in release file" error)
Nov 23 10:56:36 <_|Nix|_> alterego: Yeah. That.
Nov 23 10:56:48 <_|Nix|_> It's been that way for, like, what is it now, a week?
Nov 23 10:56:54 <_|Nix|_> ... and only on armel.
Nov 23 10:57:00 <_|Nix|_> The x86 repo works fine.
Nov 23 10:57:08 <convulted> _|Nix|_: It was working on Saturday night (Europe)
Nov 23 10:57:09 <Stskeeps> maybe you hit when armel uploads are getting done?
Nov 23 10:57:17 <Stskeeps> jeremiah: ^
Nov 23 10:57:23 <zaheerm> armel one was fine last night
Nov 23 10:57:28 <_|Nix|_> I dunno ... I just tried it again. Broken.
Nov 23 10:57:36 <moo__> is there good tutorial how to create distribution .deb from the scratch for new application?
Nov 23 10:57:44 <convulted> Stskeeps: How long would that be expected to take?
Nov 23 10:57:48 <moo__> i.e. i am not porting any existing linux/debian application
Nov 23 10:58:26 * _|Nix|_ is updating repos on his N900 ...
Nov 23 10:58:57 <alterego> moo__: there's a maemo on, but the debian package maintainer guide is probably a good place to start really.
Nov 23 10:58:59 <_|Nix|_> Fark! Now extras-testing has the same problem!
Nov 23 10:58:59 <Lynoure> suihkulokki: yes, that one.
Nov 23 10:59:35 <_|Nix|_> So, both extras-testing and extras-devel fail with the same "No Hash entry in Release file" problem ...
Nov 23 11:01:21 <_|Nix|_> This really, really sux0rz ...
Nov 23 11:01:35 <convulted> Seconded. Anything we can do?
Nov 23 11:01:50 <_|Nix|_> I dunno who's responsible for the repos.
Nov 23 11:01:59 <timeless_mbp> btw, http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2009/09/14/9894607.aspx is something i need to mention the next time someone bothers me about sorting
Nov 23 11:02:08 <suihkulokki> Lynoure: iirc she worked for novo (or some other big it consulting house)
Nov 23 11:02:36 <Lynoure> suihkulokki: hmm.
Nov 23 11:02:42 <Stskeeps> _|Nix|_: jeremiah & X-Fade (X-Fade is on holiday)
Nov 23 11:03:13 <_|Nix|_> Well, considering jeremiah hasn't chimed in, I guess he's not around either.
Nov 23 11:03:23 <suihkulokki> Lynoure: because I worked for one big consulting house then and I remember it was our competitor
Nov 23 11:07:42 <Lynoure> suihkulokki: Could be.
Nov 23 11:07:47 <timeless_mbp> http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2009/09/11/9894019.aspx
Nov 23 11:07:50 * timeless_mbp chuckles
Nov 23 11:08:51 <timeless_mbp> _|Nix|_: anyway, you basically get to wait
Nov 23 11:08:53 <timeless_mbp> sorry :)
Nov 23 11:09:09 <timeless_mbp> you could run a mirror and build your own pkgdb
Nov 23 11:09:53 <_|Nix|_> Interestingly, apt-get update with extras-devel works on scratchbox armel, just not on the device. Also, extras-testing works again ...
Nov 23 11:11:16 <timeless_mbp> _|Nix|_: it's a chaotic problem
Nov 23 11:11:24 <timeless_mbp> the index is being relatively constantly rebuilt and corrupted
Nov 23 11:11:28 <timeless_mbp> so timing is everything :)
Nov 23 11:11:39 <timeless_mbp> http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2009/09/09/9893085.aspx -- i wonder if that was w3:tpac
Nov 23 11:12:14 <_|Nix|_> Great ... have they heard of this algorithm: "Do everything you need in a temporary_location && mv temporary_location permanent_location"?
Nov 23 11:13:05 <timeless_mbp> i think they've heard of an algorithm called "buy more hardware"
Nov 23 11:13:16 <lardman> another 770! yay!
Nov 23 11:13:19 <timeless_mbp> which seems to rely on "waiting"
Nov 23 11:15:18 * Stskeeps pokes his dead dead sb2
Nov 23 11:17:00 * timeless_mbp tries to use a dpkg-trigger
Nov 23 11:17:15 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: i still need binary hacking help :)
Nov 23 11:22:16 <convulted> jeremiah: Could you check the extras-devel repo please?
Nov 23 11:23:18 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 23 11:23:20 <convulted> _|Nix|_: Update worked now...
Nov 23 11:23:34 <_|Nix|_> convulted: Including extras-devel?
Nov 23 11:23:57 <convulted> _|Nix|_: apt-get update worked
Nov 23 11:32:16 <lardman> jeremiah: You're back!
Nov 23 11:32:30 <lardman> jeremiah: Can you advise me on some debainsationeration please?
Nov 23 11:38:03 <comawhite> I installed the libqt4-maemo5-dev qt4-dev-tools but somehow it can't find qmake
Nov 23 11:40:26 <comawhite> nevermind I had to run /opt/qt4-maemo5/qmake to get it
Nov 23 11:42:18 <tbf> comawhite: with autotroll you could tell configure once where to find Qt :-D --- well, but maybe not the right thing unless you prefer autotools over other build systems
Nov 23 11:42:38 <comawhite> I actually prefer cmake
Nov 23 11:42:50 <comawhite> just wanted to easily test qt-4.6 out
Nov 23 11:42:58 <SpeedEvil> delicious cake.
Nov 23 11:43:10 <comawhite> tbf, I don't fuck with autohell
Nov 23 11:43:13 <comawhite> ;P
Nov 23 11:43:27 <lardman> man after my own heart ;)
Nov 23 11:43:44 <murrayc> Yeah, who wants things to work anyway.
Nov 23 11:43:51 <tbf> comawhite: i don't get why people prefer imperative build systems over declarative build systems
Nov 23 11:44:12 <comawhite> tbf, because it's difficult to understand and not cross platform
Nov 23 11:44:14 <tbf> comawhite: people how use cmake also could just write shell scripts to build their stuff
Nov 23 11:44:26 <comawhite> cmake > autohell :P
Nov 23 11:44:30 <lardman> murrayc: it's just those cases where it doesn't "just work" that are the annoying ones ;)
Nov 23 11:45:00 <tbf> comawhite: cmake == an untalented undergrade's work
Nov 23 11:45:01 <murrayc> lardman: Unfortunately I've found that cmake doesn't work for my simple cases. And qmake doesn't even try to solve the simplest build problems.
Nov 23 11:45:09 <tbf> from conceptional POV
Nov 23 11:45:15 <lardman> oh i wasn't talking about cmake, just about autotools
Nov 23 11:45:34 <comawhite> plus my app is a KDE4 app so I have to use cmake anyways ;)
Nov 23 11:45:37 <murrayc> Yeah, it's complicated. I'm happy enough with it now though.
Nov 23 11:45:56 <tbf> lardman: you just make the mistake of abusing google for finding autotools documentation
Nov 23 11:46:06 <murrayc> I wish we could easily stop ourselves from using deprecated autotools syntax, to make google show cleaner examples.
Nov 23 11:46:30 <tbf> lardman: those days google has the bad habit of top-ranking only crap when it comes to technical topics
Nov 23 11:46:43 <murrayc> Yeah, it prefers conversations to reference documentation.
Nov 23 11:46:52 <comawhite> tbf, and if we can get people to stop using that horrible thing called Gtk also :P
Nov 23 11:46:56 <lardman> yeah, well I think part of my problem is the mysteries of debianisation, whose docs are almost as good ;)
Nov 23 11:47:19 <lardman> comawhite: np there as long as I don't have to use that horrible thing called C++
Nov 23 11:47:31 <tbf> comawhite: when will qt get a reasonable signal system?
Nov 23 11:47:34 <comawhite> C++ is better than C :P
Nov 23 11:47:40 <tbf> comawhite: LOL!
Nov 23 11:47:41 <lardman> you're on to a looser there
Nov 23 11:47:47 <comawhite> tbf, you do know they invented the signal/slots ;)
Nov 23 11:48:33 <tbf> comawhite: just would be nice, if they wouldn't have implemented that stuff in a style that makes you think they stopped following computer science somewhere in the 60er's
Nov 23 11:48:57 <tbf> comawhite: keyword "encapsulation"
Nov 23 11:49:14 <tbf> comawhite: i really don't get why every signal handler (aka slot) has to be public
Nov 23 11:49:31 <tbf> comawhite: yes, you can hide the slot's C++ signature with "private slot:"
Nov 23 11:49:55 <tbf> comawhite: but the signal still remains invokable by entire world by it's qualified name
Nov 23 11:50:02 <comawhite> well you have to understand boost, gtk, .NET took the idea too ;)
Nov 23 11:50:07 * lardman wonders whether to bring up vi vs vim....
Nov 23 11:50:30 <tbf> comawhite: just that in every other platform you can have __private__ signal handlers
Nov 23 11:50:48 <comawhite> lardman, I use neither :P
Nov 23 11:50:57 <lardman> just taking the piss don;'t worry
Nov 23 11:51:07 <tbf> comawhite: slots/signal handlers really are implementation details which don't belong into the public interface
Nov 23 11:52:15 <comawhite> tbf, then use pimpl
Nov 23 11:52:23 <comawhite> like qt and kde use
Nov 23 11:53:31 <cosmo> is new years eve public holiday in usa?
Nov 23 11:53:35 <tbf> comawhite: lol! Qt rediscovered G_TYPE_INSTANCE_GET_PRIVATE
Nov 23 11:53:55 <comawhite> huh
Nov 23 11:54:02 <comawhite> cosmo, yes?
Nov 23 11:54:49 <comawhite> tbf, how about Gtk discover NOT_REINVENT_THE_OOP_WHEEL
Nov 23 11:54:50 <comawhite> :P
Nov 23 11:54:57 <cosmo> ok.. i wonder if they do segway tours in new years eve :)
Nov 23 11:55:32 <comawhite> i have no idea
Nov 23 11:55:42 <tbf> comawhite: hmm? wtf?
Nov 23 11:55:59 <tbf> comawhite: you are not seriously one of those kids who think OOP is a language feature?
Nov 23 11:56:05 <comawhite> tbf, gtk+ has to reivent the oop wheel just do gui
Nov 23 11:56:21 <comawhite> tbf, it's already in C++ why add it to C
Nov 23 11:56:44 <tbf> comawhite: because OOP is an useful design pattern?
Nov 23 11:56:45 <comawhite> anyways
Nov 23 11:56:55 <tbf> comawhite: because C++ gets OOP entirely wrong?
Nov 23 11:57:06 <epa_> did anyone implement yet the "Shift + Space" producing '|' character yet?
Nov 23 11:57:17 <comawhite> anyways lets change subject
Nov 23 11:57:26 <epa_> would be way handier than gettting it trought the symbol table.
Nov 23 11:57:48 <comawhite> will networking work in the emulator?
Nov 23 11:58:08 <tbf> comawhite: i am pretty sure 90% most C users would immediately start using C++ if bjarne wouldn't have created such mess
Nov 23 11:58:19 <comawhite> C is a mess too
Nov 23 11:58:40 <comawhite> C++ is only a mess because bjarne wanted backwards compatibility
Nov 23 11:58:46 <comawhite> with C
Nov 23 11:59:22 <tbf> comawhite: aha. not virtual methods, non virtual destructors, operator overloading, copy constructors by default, references vs. pointers, ...
Nov 23 11:59:42 <tbf> ...that all was caused by backwards compatibility
Nov 23 12:00:31 <tbf> comawhite: no, bjarne just is a bad language designer. and i am sure he knows. too bad the fanboys who pick up his language don't realize.
Nov 23 12:01:57 <tbf> hmm. and if C++ is the awesome, why does every stupid little framework invent it's own container framework for instance?
Nov 23 12:02:13 <tbf> (bonus points for Qt containers to be STL compatible, btw)
Nov 23 12:03:15 <tbf> back to this boring code review work.
Nov 23 12:03:50 <RST38h> comawhite: Hey, there are C clones that break backward compatibility!
Nov 23 12:03:53 <RST38h> JAVA!
Nov 23 12:04:01 <comawhite> fuck slowva
Nov 23 12:04:04 * RST38h laughs diabolically
Nov 23 12:05:02 <RST38h> tbf: That is because every stupid little C++ programmer thinks he can do things better than previous little stupid C++ programmers
Nov 23 12:05:08 <comawhite> tbf, because compilers still use pre-ansi stl, sun studio 5 still doesn't fully support C++98
Nov 23 12:05:23 <RST38h> tbf: Also see: build systems, Linux audio frameworks
Nov 23 12:05:43 <comawhite> RST38h, well at least Nokia is doing it right with Qt unlike wxWidgets
Nov 23 12:05:44 <comawhite> :P
Nov 23 12:06:00 <RST38h> What is Sun Studio 5? Is it something DJs use?
Nov 23 12:06:14 <comawhite> some stupid Sun's C++ compiler
Nov 23 12:06:17 <tbf> comawhite: Qt >>>>>>^7 trillions wxWidgets
Nov 23 12:06:24 <comawhite> tbf, I agree
Nov 23 12:06:28 <RST38h> Who cares about it then? Why bring it up?
Nov 23 12:06:48 <tbf> "Sun" what?
Nov 23 12:07:02 <comawhite> the one who invented Java?
Nov 23 12:07:04 <comawhite> Sun?
Nov 23 12:08:07 <tbf> comawhite: yes, just was pointing to the irrelevance of their proprietary compiler
Nov 23 12:09:20 <adeus> dio frameworks
Nov 23 12:09:21 <adeus> [14:05:43] < comawhite> RST38h, well at least Nokia is doing it right with Qt unlike wxWidgets
Nov 23 12:09:23 <adeus> [14:05:43] »» danilocesar [n=danilo@200.184.118.130] has joined #maemo
Nov 23 12:09:24 <adeus> argh
Nov 23 12:09:33 <comawhite> failed :P
Nov 23 12:09:37 <adeus> yes
Nov 23 12:09:54 <danilocesar> lol
Nov 23 12:10:01 <comawhite> but anyways, each to their own
Nov 23 12:10:06 <javispedro> "Besides, even a iPhone that sent stuff to another planet and got a reply, can’t beat a Linux running Nokia N900 with built-in full root access."
Nov 23 12:10:32 <comawhite> well from what I seen n900 owns the iphone :P
Nov 23 12:10:40 <javispedro> n900 fanboyism extendingto slashdot....  aim for cover.
Nov 23 12:10:45 <comawhite> just too bad $565 price tag :(
Nov 23 12:11:00 <adeus> knowing Nokia that will drop fast
Nov 23 12:11:09 <comawhite> I hope so
Nov 23 12:11:15 <glass_> iirc i saw a headline of it dropping to 4xx already
Nov 23 12:11:18 <comawhite> right now, I'm stuck with just an emulator
Nov 23 12:11:34 <javispedro> EMULATOR!!!
Nov 23 12:11:38 <javispedro> NOT AN EMULATOR!!
Nov 23 12:12:00 <comawhite> the SDK isn't an emulator?
Nov 23 12:12:09 <comawhite> well you know what I mean
Nov 23 12:12:24 * javispedro looks around to see if crash and die (spaced not to ping him) is around or not  ;)
Nov 23 12:13:57 <wazd> RST38h: have you received any details on tomorrows event?
Nov 23 12:14:48 <wazd> javispedro: he definitely has ping detector on "die" :D
Nov 23 12:15:15 <javispedro> ssssh then ;P
Nov 23 12:17:05 * kirma enjoys his n900... whole hour now
Nov 23 12:17:10 <kirma> <fanboi>
Nov 23 12:17:26 <viggi> I can't wait to have mine :|
Nov 23 12:17:26 <aquatix> ooh
Nov 23 12:17:28 <kirma> cow-orkers seem to be interested
Nov 23 12:17:36 <comawhite> viggi, me either
Nov 23 12:17:59 <aquatix> it does have an onscreen keyboard too btw?
Nov 23 12:18:09 <aquatix> my girlfriend is interested (yeah, i was amazed too)
Nov 23 12:18:30 <comawhite> as long as I have msn, irc, yahoo, aim and web I'll be happy
Nov 23 12:18:39 <kirma> onscreen keyboard is optional on landscape mode
Nov 23 12:19:16 <Shapeshifter> How long did it take from the release of the n800 to the release of the n810 and could that be a representative scale for a possible release of a "n910" of sorts? Because it is possible that the n900 wont release here until mid-january, and in that case I'm thinking I'll just go for another phone for now (something android) and get the n900 follow up in half a year or so.
Nov 23 12:19:27 * javispedro watches someone confuse "alias" field in bugzilla with "nickname"
Nov 23 12:19:37 <Shapeshifter> because it seems to me there are quite a few things to improve hardware wise on the n900.
Nov 23 12:19:53 <javispedro> hardware wise? other than battery life...
Nov 23 12:19:53 <Myrtti> Shapeshifter: your guesses are as good as ours, we do not own a crystal ball
Nov 23 12:19:58 <Shapeshifter> and if nokia is cool they'd release a remake of the n900 which is slimmer and all that stuff.
Nov 23 12:20:09 <viggi> nokia is cool.
Nov 23 12:20:20 <Shapeshifter> javispedro: slimmer, better screen, better keyboard, compass....
Nov 23 12:20:21 <Stskeeps> Shapeshifter: no. helly kitty shell.
Nov 23 12:20:29 <Stskeeps> hello kitty, i mean
Nov 23 12:20:34 <tbf> Shapeshifter: did you actually have a n900 in your hands already?
Nov 23 12:20:37 <comawhite> Stskeeps, I want that ;P j/k
Nov 23 12:20:40 <Shapeshifter> tbf: no.
Nov 23 12:20:46 <javispedro> better screen? better keyboard?
Nov 23 12:20:55 <tbf> Shapeshifter: the device is smaller than you might expect by reading the specs
Nov 23 12:20:56 <comawhite> I want a cheaper price tag
Nov 23 12:21:13 <Shapeshifter> okay I'll stop. But, at least my first question was valid ;) How long from the n800 to the n810?
Nov 23 12:21:18 <Myrtti> I want a kitten
Nov 23 12:21:24 <comawhite> i want a taco
Nov 23 12:21:31 <Shapeshifter> I want an n900?
Nov 23 12:21:42 <tbf> Shapeshifter: even fits into your shirt's breast pocket
Nov 23 12:21:49 <javispedro> make it "worse screen" (capacitive), "worse battery life" (compass) and you may be nearer what the n900 + 1 will be ;)
Nov 23 12:21:54 <kalikianatoli> What about a hello kitty theme for n900 with taco icons?
Nov 23 12:22:02 <lardman> well compass wuold be good
Nov 23 12:22:02 <comawhite> lol
Nov 23 12:22:13 <lardman> kalikianatoli: I'd consider that a regression
Nov 23 12:22:29 <Stskeeps> god, i love my rsync->mkfs.ubifs util
Nov 23 12:22:36 <Stskeeps> allows me to snapshot my n900
Nov 23 12:22:38 <viggi> compass.. hm, don't you already have gps on the n900?
Nov 23 12:22:50 <lardman> ys, but gps!=compass
Nov 23 12:22:55 <aquatix> compass is rather nice to have
Nov 23 12:22:56 <tbf> viggi: well, a real compass might react faster than GPS
Nov 23 12:23:10 <viggi> true
Nov 23 12:23:12 <tbf> viggi: GPS can take quite some time to figure out your position and orientation
Nov 23 12:23:39 <viggi> I read somewhere that the gps is pretty quick on it
Nov 23 12:23:42 <adeus> can it figure out your orientation?
Nov 23 12:23:57 <t_s_o> the only way a gps can get orientation is if you move in some direction, and then it will assume your pointing in the direction of movement until the next movement...
Nov 23 12:24:12 <wazd> "Welcome to the N900 meet-up !"
Nov 23 12:24:12 <IcanCU> i want skype video calls on a mobile phone
Nov 23 12:24:18 <javispedro> I want digital barometric altimeter
Nov 23 12:24:19 <lardman> gps is pretty quick with assistance
Nov 23 12:24:25 <wazd> ah, at least I'm not fucked up here :D
Nov 23 12:24:28 <viggi> javispedro: lol
Nov 23 12:24:34 <lardman> javispedro: that's not particularly useful though
Nov 23 12:24:35 <Shapeshifter> javispedro: by better screen, I mean multitouch capable.
Nov 23 12:24:40 <lardman> nah
Nov 23 12:24:46 <Shapeshifter> resistive is fine by me.
Nov 23 12:24:56 * aquatix wants a termometer and a sundial
Nov 23 12:25:00 <javispedro> Shapeshifter: well nokia has already say they're going for capacitive.
Nov 23 12:25:06 <Shapeshifter> and a compass is total win for street view and such stuff.
Nov 23 12:25:20 <lardman> aquatix: I imagine there is a thermometer somewhere in the chipset
Nov 23 12:25:22 <Myrtti> I want my N910 to have a kitten in it.
Nov 23 12:25:23 <Shapeshifter> javispedro: mh. Well. I guess I don't care.
Nov 23 12:25:27 <Myrtti> otherwise Nokia is shit.
Nov 23 12:25:30 <wazd> RST38h: "We will provide some nibble food and N900 demos" Run for your life :D
Nov 23 12:25:34 <Myrtti> I can haz kitten?
Nov 23 12:25:36 <IcanCU> *a kitten that purs
Nov 23 12:25:40 <aquatix> lardman: yeah, n810 has one in the screen, but that's skewed by design
Nov 23 12:25:43 <javispedro> no kitten? dealbreaker!!
Nov 23 12:25:47 <Shapeshifter> Myrtti: I'm sure there's an app for the iphone for that.
Nov 23 12:25:51 <aquatix> as the screen generates warmth itself
Nov 23 12:26:00 <wazd> Shapeshifter: fart != purr
Nov 23 12:26:05 <Shapeshifter> wazd: lol
Nov 23 12:26:05 <Myrtti> I want a _furry_ kitten
Nov 23 12:26:13 <Shapeshifter> a farting kitten?
Nov 23 12:26:21 <wazd> eeew
Nov 23 12:26:24 <aquatix> Myrtti: every kitten gets furry eventually
Nov 23 12:26:25 <t_s_o> more like barfing hairballs...
Nov 23 12:26:32 <aquatix> even if it doesn't pur anymore
Nov 23 12:26:37 <wazd> t_s_o: eeeeeeeeeeeew
Nov 23 12:26:54 <IcanCU> its hurts my balls when she licks
Nov 23 12:27:07 * Shapeshifter is still wondering if he should get a screen protector for the n900.
Nov 23 12:27:08 <aquatix> IcanCU: ...
Nov 23 12:27:17 <Shapeshifter> I fear the sensitivity will drop hard.
Nov 23 12:27:31 <SpeedEvil> You get naked kittens
Nov 23 12:27:32 <Shapeshifter> and I'm taking good care of the device anyway.
Nov 23 12:27:37 <aquatix> i wonder how scratch resistent the screen is
Nov 23 12:27:38 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: IMO - it doesn't affect much
Nov 23 12:27:56 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: and it means that one grain of sand trapped in your nail doesn't scratch irreversably
Nov 23 12:28:05 <Shapeshifter> I'll always keep it in a pouch though, so I figure I might not need one.
Nov 23 12:28:06 <aquatix> the boxwave ones are great
Nov 23 12:28:08 * nomis points to http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/screenlick
Nov 23 12:28:15 <Shapeshifter> mhhh
Nov 23 12:28:37 <aquatix> Shapeshifter: i've used screen protectors with all my resistive touchscreen bearing devices
Nov 23 12:28:49 <aquatix> it's nice not to worry about sharp thingees on your nails
Nov 23 12:28:53 <aquatix> like sand
Nov 23 12:29:00 <Shapeshifter> mhh.
Nov 23 12:29:03 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: No - a grain of sand getting on your fingernail - when you go to swipe the screen forex.
Nov 23 12:29:15 <SpeedEvil> Unless you keep your hands in pouches too.
Nov 23 12:29:18 <Shapeshifter> okay.
Nov 23 12:29:25 * SpeedEvil realises Shapeshifter is really a kangaroo.
Nov 23 12:29:38 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: I'm many things to many people.
Nov 23 12:29:40 <Shapeshifter> or something...
Nov 23 12:30:02 <aquatix> you're a woman?
Nov 23 12:30:10 <Shapeshifter> but boxwave doesn't have one for the n900 yet.
Nov 23 12:30:14 <Shapeshifter> aquatix: nah.
Nov 23 12:30:20 <javispedro> he's the medium ,he's the message, he's the one
Nov 23 12:30:29 <aquatix> ghehe
Nov 23 12:30:37 <aquatix> Shapeshifter: ah :( well, i guess they will have soon
Nov 23 12:30:41 <SpeedEvil> What sort of massage?
Nov 23 12:30:44 <Myrtti> there is no spoon
Nov 23 12:31:01 <javispedro> a $5 massage
Nov 23 12:31:17 <Shapeshifter> Maybe I'll get a durasec instead
Nov 23 12:31:25 * SpeedEvil has ordered a protector.
Nov 23 12:31:45 * javispedro is waiting for brando
Nov 23 12:32:29 <javispedro> hmpf.
Nov 23 12:33:43 <SpeedEvil> http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19941 (protector)
Nov 23 12:35:10 <xorAxAx> do they have bags as well?
Nov 23 12:35:27 <SpeedEvil> cases?
Nov 23 12:35:33 <SpeedEvil> I don't think so
Nov 23 12:35:33 <nomis> is there no sleeve/bag included with the N900?
Nov 23 12:35:43 <viggi> !?
Nov 23 12:36:00 <xorAxAx> the n810 had one but i couldnt find the sleeve on the packing list for the n900
Nov 23 12:36:04 <xorAxAx> can somebody confirm this?
Nov 23 12:36:10 <viggi> oh the horror
Nov 23 12:36:10 <aquatix> hm
Nov 23 12:36:18 <aquatix> need a sock then :)
Nov 23 12:36:21 <SpeedEvil> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10
Nov 23 12:36:25 <SpeedEvil> well - you could use ...
Nov 23 12:36:43 <xorAxAx> are they large enough?
Nov 23 12:36:57 <aquatix> xorAxAx: two socks then
Nov 23 12:37:09 <xorAxAx> i mean the SpeedEvil ones
Nov 23 12:37:16 <aquatix> ah ;)
Nov 23 12:37:39 <mihu> xorAxAx: I can confirm that the N900 package neither contains a bog nor a sleeve. Just a tissue for cleaning the screen.
Nov 23 12:38:03 <SpeedEvil> xorAxAx: I have no idea - I thought that was about the same size as an ipod classic
Nov 23 12:38:09 <xorAxAx> see, so everybody needs to buy socks
Nov 23 12:38:12 <SpeedEvil> xorAxAx: Check of course
Nov 23 12:38:20 <SpeedEvil> xorAxAx: Why? I have several.
Nov 23 12:38:22 <SpeedEvil> :)
Nov 23 12:38:30 <SpeedEvil> wearing 4 ATM.
Nov 23 12:40:02 <xorAxAx> its 7 mm longer and 8 mm thicker
Nov 23 12:40:07 <Shapeshifter> I think I'll get 5x durasec cleartec
Nov 23 12:40:21 <viggi> i'll need to buy shirts with breastpockets on them :F
Nov 23 12:42:38 <Shapeshifter> or I'll wait for the boxwave ones.
Nov 23 12:42:57 <moo__> where can I get dh_make?
Nov 23 12:43:04 <moo__> is there a maemo specific version available?
Nov 23 12:43:34 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: I'd get any screen protector that will fit ASAP
Nov 23 12:44:06 <lardman> just stick it in your pocket and avoid keys and the like
Nov 23 12:44:13 <lardman> mine is, touch wood, still unscathed
Nov 23 12:44:39 <lardman> viggi: breast pockets with braces, as it's rather dense still
Nov 23 12:45:50 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: I don't even have the phone
Nov 23 12:45:54 <Shapeshifter> might well be until end december
Nov 23 12:47:13 <zaheerm> moo__, install debhelper
Nov 23 12:48:12 <xorAxAx> is there a page that explains how to build packages for maemo 5?
Nov 23 12:51:50 <moo__> zaheerm: thanks!
Nov 23 12:52:15 <xorAxAx> can i still use my old scratchbox environment?
Nov 23 12:52:50 <kalikianatoli> xorAxAx, basically just debian packagin, plus additional fileds in control, which you can see in any maemo package source
Nov 23 12:53:30 <xorAxAx> kalikianatoli: yes, but in which environment do i execute the dpkg commands? in a scratchbox, right?
Nov 23 12:53:35 <kalikianatoli> depending on how old your old sbox is, you will need to upgrade the packages
Nov 23 12:53:42 <kalikianatoli> yep
Nov 23 12:56:47 <hrw> re
Nov 23 13:00:26 <Shapeshifter> lolwut. The nokia mail client on the n900 can't search mails?
Nov 23 13:00:28 <Shapeshifter> rediculous.
Nov 23 13:00:37 * Shapeshifter thinks about using mutt. -.-
Nov 23 13:01:25 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't mind a good gmail client :P
Nov 23 13:01:57 <bleader> a browser ? :p
Nov 23 13:09:01 <papo> tbf, timeless: this keeps getting odder and odder, even the official picture at amazon.de has the nonexistent layout: http://www.amazon.de/Nokia-Smartphone-Vertrag-Branding-Simlock/dp/B002N2Z0MQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1258981610&sr=8-1
Nov 23 13:09:46 <range> Maybe that's why nokia.de isn't shipping yet >:)
Nov 23 13:10:28 <papo> lol
Nov 23 13:11:27 <papo> range: actually according to some stores, it should be available in early December in Switzerland. But it turned out that they ship a version which a keyboard I wouldn't like that much :(
Nov 23 13:11:57 <Shapeshifter> papo: I don't think it'll be here in early december
Nov 23 13:12:05 <Shapeshifter> that would be a miracle.
Nov 23 13:12:29 <Shapeshifter> papo: your probably read at digitec that mobilezone staff said end december/begin january even.
Nov 23 13:12:45 <kalikianatoli> papo, that doesn't have any umlauts. makes you wonder if they ripped out the z to swap it :-P
Nov 23 13:12:53 <Shapeshifter> although mobilezone sure isn't a prime source >.>
Nov 23 13:14:00 <kalikianatoli> papo, also note the display shows English strings
Nov 23 13:14:00 <lbt> yay..... Barcelona...
Nov 23 13:14:24 <papo> Shapeshifter: no, I had some email exchange with product managers while asking for the keyboard. I'm just replicating what they said; from previous experiences, I'd highly doubt the credibility of that information
Nov 23 13:14:42 <Shapeshifter> yeah
Nov 23 13:14:53 <papo> kalikianatoli: My problem is that I don't want the german keyboard
Nov 23 13:15:07 <Shapeshifter> papo: soooner or later, digitec might offer the US keyboard
Nov 23 13:15:12 <Shapeshifter> if demand is there
Nov 23 13:15:19 <Shapeshifter> but I wouldn't bet on it.
Nov 23 13:15:31 <lbt> papo: send me some money and I'll buy you a UK one and I *promise* to mail it to you
Nov 23 13:15:47 <papo> Shapeshifter: even though I didn't explicitly ask for for QWERTY version, they said that it was not clear whether they'd ship that one day
Nov 23 13:16:15 <papo> Shapeshifter: to be clear, I asked them about the keyboard layout.  The replied a load of stuff but actually failed to answer my question
Nov 23 13:16:23 <papo> lbt: sure :)
Nov 23 13:17:10 <kalikianatoli> papo, be careful, he didn't say *when* he would mail it ;)
Nov 23 13:17:16 <lbt> shh
Nov 23 13:17:20 <papo> :)
Nov 23 13:18:59 <papo> Shapeshifter: http://pastebin.com/m4e153946 FYI
Nov 23 13:19:50 <papo> Shapeshifter: as you can see, I rephrased my question twice but they didn't get it
Nov 23 13:24:39 <Shapeshifter> papo: well.
Nov 23 13:30:47 <Shapeshifter> papo: mh, he says that begin of december is "sure"
Nov 23 13:31:00 <Shapeshifter> how can they ever be "sure".
Nov 23 13:31:03 <Shapeshifter> *rolleyes
Nov 23 13:31:10 <papo> sure. Look at how he answered my question
Nov 23 13:31:52 <papo> that's the best advertisement for non-credibility actually
Nov 23 13:51:42 <Shapeshifter> what about this rumour that the n900 will go up in smoke if held at 600mhz?
Nov 23 13:52:03 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, not a rumor.
Nov 23 13:52:08 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, overvoltage.
Nov 23 13:52:23 <CoreFusion-> Wasn't that told at the summit, don't do it
Nov 23 13:52:33 <tigert> nice
Nov 23 13:52:33 <GeneralAntilles> Just don't screw around with your power management settings and the device will handle itself just fine.
Nov 23 13:52:45 <GeneralAntilles> Igor said that.
Nov 23 13:52:48 <sulx> woot?
Nov 23 13:53:02 <tigert> kept my n900 in gsm network, but no usage or internet, shows full battery after a workday
Nov 23 13:53:21 <hrw> http://www.allegro.pl/item827482159_nowa_nokia_n900_tv_bez_simloka_32gb.html - check photos ;D
Nov 23 13:53:31 <hrw> first n900 fake on auction sale ;D
Nov 23 13:53:50 <tigert> haha
Nov 23 13:54:25 <Shapeshifter> hrw: huh
Nov 23 13:55:15 <tigert> photos shaky "by accident" I bet :)
Nov 23 13:55:33 <Myrtti> "MMS Tak"
Nov 23 13:55:37 <GeneralAntilles> Just, fyi, while loading and playing back a YouTube video. http://pastebin.com/m5c709b99
Nov 23 13:55:49 <Shapeshifter> Myrtti: that means MMS - yes.
Nov 23 13:55:49 <Myrtti> fail
Nov 23 13:55:57 <Myrtti> mwahaha
Nov 23 13:55:59 <alterego> Hah
Nov 23 13:56:08 <Myrtti> Shapeshifter: aka: FAIL
Nov 23 13:56:29 <lardman> my wife yesterday again commented on the crapness of my phone due to lack of MMS
Nov 23 13:56:39 <zaheerm> GeneralAntilles, can you do same benchmark with zoutube while it plays back?
Nov 23 13:57:04 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, lol.
Nov 23 13:57:31 <alterego> Hah, can she not email?
Nov 23 13:57:44 <alterego> I've not sent _one_ MMS in my entire life ..
Nov 23 13:57:49 <Myrtti> alterego: email is not a viable option for everyone
Nov 23 13:57:51 <GeneralAntilles> I've sent one.
Nov 23 13:57:54 <lardman> probably can, but didn;t want to
Nov 23 13:57:57 <jaska> i think ive received two mms
Nov 23 13:57:58 <zaheerm> it's true tho, quite a few people use mms
Nov 23 13:58:00 <jaska> sent none
Nov 23 13:58:06 <GeneralAntilles> The quality was so useless I've never bothered sending a second.
Nov 23 13:58:06 <hrw> alterego: I've sent many
Nov 23 13:58:17 <zaheerm> comes out of normal tarriffs and most people can receive them
Nov 23 13:58:25 <alterego> Myrtti: more people have email than MMS :P
Nov 23 13:58:25 <lardman> anyway she sent me one and it's now lost in the ether
Nov 23 13:58:41 <hrw> when cost of sms == cost of mms then sending 1000 chars for price of 160 makes difference
Nov 23 13:58:42 <lardman> not more people walking around I'll bet
Nov 23 13:58:46 <Myrtti> alterego: more people have mms capable phones and mms plans than data plans
Nov 23 13:58:56 <alterego> MMS costs me a _lot_ more than SMS
Nov 23 13:59:20 <lardman> costs me 1.5x SMS iirc, and I get millions of those free every month so no worries
Nov 23 13:59:23 <zaheerm> it comes out of my text allowance
Nov 23 13:59:27 <lardman> same
Nov 23 13:59:40 <zaheerm> and my text allowance avergae is 10% used
Nov 23 13:59:43 <lardman> s/free/included for the pedants
Nov 23 13:59:46 <Myrtti> if an mms costs 1.79€ per bang, it still costs less to send three of those than to buy a data package for a month for 9.80 or pay by megabyte with ridiculous ratesd
Nov 23 13:59:54 <lardman> yeah, I think I have 1k/month
Nov 23 13:59:58 <lardman> no way I could use that
Nov 23 14:00:37 <lardman> perhaps 500, still far out of my texting reach
Nov 23 14:01:00 <Shapeshifter> does the n900 provide facilities to send SMS from the command line? At least through dbus?
Nov 23 14:01:02 <Myrtti> the probability of people without dataplan buying a N900 is small, I agree, but MMS has its usecases
Nov 23 14:01:06 <alterego> Well, my operator charges me about 35p per MMS, and I have unlimited inclusive SMS
Nov 23 14:01:21 <alterego> I don't think so, MMS is shit
Nov 23 14:01:30 <adeus> it was dead on arrival
Nov 23 14:01:32 <Myrtti> alterego: and so many people in the world don't agree
Nov 23 14:01:32 <alterego> Upload to flicker and send them a link
Nov 23 14:01:37 <alterego> Everyone should have a dataplan.
Nov 23 14:01:43 <Myrtti> alterego: why?
Nov 23 14:01:49 <alterego> Myrtti: you don't agree, you've not asked all the other people in the world.
Nov 23 14:01:53 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, http://pastebin.com/m18b212b6
Nov 23 14:01:55 <Myrtti> alterego: my sister wouldn't do jack shit with the dataplan
Nov 23 14:01:59 <glass_> mms is like a shitty dataplan
Nov 23 14:02:07 <papo> alterego: actually I had one single experience in my life where MMS was actually helpful
Nov 23 14:02:07 <alterego> Heh
Nov 23 14:02:11 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: uhm what?
Nov 23 14:02:23 <lardman> mms is for stuff you don't necessarily want to share with the world on flickr
Nov 23 14:02:25 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: I saw that. Yes.
Nov 23 14:02:26 <alterego> papo: :)
Nov 23 14:02:36 <Myrtti> she doesn't use facebook on her phone, doesn't check her email on the run, doesn't need to be online
Nov 23 14:02:40 <papo> alterego: I was driving home from a barbecue party and realized that I forgot a decent steak there. So I sent an SMS to a friend which still was there and told him he could eat my meat
Nov 23 14:02:49 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, look more closely, thanks. :)
Nov 23 14:02:51 <alterego> Myrtti: she doesn't think she doesn't need to be.
Nov 23 14:03:06 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, and I'll do the same!
Nov 23 14:03:06 <alterego> Give her the chance, give her an N900 with a data plan and I bet she'll be on facebook all day :P
Nov 23 14:03:10 <GeneralAntilles> zaheerm! http://pastebin.com/m18b212b6
Nov 23 14:03:12 <lardman> papo: unfortunate choice of words! :D
Nov 23 14:03:14 <Myrtti> alterego: and she doesn't have the funds to get a dataplan.
Nov 23 14:03:17 * GeneralAntilles should put his glasses on.
Nov 23 14:03:30 <papo> alterego: and then he answered with an MMS-picture of the thing and I could confirm this was the right one
Nov 23 14:03:31 <Myrtti> alterego: I'm not made of gold
Nov 23 14:03:34 <papo> lardman: uh true
Nov 23 14:03:40 <Shapeshifter> ^^
Nov 23 14:03:41 <alterego> Hahah
Nov 23 14:04:11 <alterego> Nice story, but, well, still rather unnecessary
Nov 23 14:04:24 <Stskeeps> lardman: ping
Nov 23 14:04:29 <lardman> Stskeeps: pong
Nov 23 14:04:33 <RST38h> Murdoch considers delisting from Google Search, being paid by MS =)
Nov 23 14:05:01 <adeus> is that a threat or a promise
Nov 23 14:05:16 <Myrtti> anyway, she's happy with her s40 phone
Nov 23 14:05:26 <Myrtti> and isn't likely to buy a smart phone any time soon
Nov 23 14:05:34 <Stskeeps> lardman: check your mail
Nov 23 14:05:34 <adeus> I've never managedo to send a mms
Nov 23 14:05:39 <lardman> Stskeeps: if you've sent me a message, my email seems to not be receiving atm and this irc client is crap and may not have shown a PM :)
Nov 23 14:05:44 <alterego> Well, my dataplan is about 100 MMS messages in price.
Nov 23 14:05:48 <Stskeeps> lardman: ah, lovely
Nov 23 14:05:50 <adeus> either my sendin fails or the receiving end doesn't get it
Nov 23 14:05:56 <ali1234> adeus: it probably isn't enabled on your account
Nov 23 14:06:00 <alterego> And I have unlimited inclusive data, unlimited texts and 600 minutes.
Nov 23 14:06:02 <lardman> actually PMs are working I now see
Nov 23 14:06:03 <adeus> ali1234, yes
Nov 23 14:06:18 <lardman> Stskeeps: I tell a lie, just turned up
Nov 23 14:06:20 <adeus> ali1234, and I've complained about it Nth times
Nov 23 14:06:27 <adeus> then I started to sens emails
Nov 23 14:06:29 <zaheerm> GeneralAntilles, cool so can i conclude from that, that zoutube is better for power efficiency than the flash plugin in-browser?
Nov 23 14:06:37 <adeus> problem disappappeared :P
Nov 23 14:06:37 <GeneralAntilles> zaheerm, clearly. ;)
Nov 23 14:06:39 <adeus> disappeared..
Nov 23 14:06:44 <lardman> Stskeeps: cool, will do some hacking this evening then :)
Nov 23 14:06:45 <GeneralAntilles> zaheerm, but, who's surprised? ;)
Nov 23 14:06:51 <zaheerm> GeneralAntilles, true :)
Nov 23 14:07:05 <Stskeeps> lardman: thanks - it's completely out of my league. did the internal omapfb get disabled or something in kernel?
Nov 23 14:07:06 <zaheerm> GeneralAntilles, thx for the benchmarking, what tool did you use for it?
Nov 23 14:07:17 <GeneralAntilles> powertop
Nov 23 14:07:33 <GeneralAntilles> So it's not much of a benchmark, but vaguely interesting for power states.
Nov 23 14:07:38 <lardman> Stskeeps: no clue, but should have some more this evening I hope
Nov 23 14:07:38 <zaheerm> aah i should install that
Nov 23 14:07:50 * zaheerm wants to promote zoutube now to extras-testing
Nov 23 14:08:45 <Stskeeps> lardman: thanks. let me know
Nov 23 14:10:05 <adeus> I heard that because of copyright issues mms messages can not be automatically scaled/tranformed to be supported on the other side
Nov 23 14:10:30 <adeus> this was the reason that operator-operator messages were practically broken at least first
Nov 23 14:17:38 <GeneralAntilles> So, it seems confirmed that there's no warranty on the DDP.
Nov 23 14:17:45 <GeneralAntilles> Just, FYI, to anybody who's ordered.
Nov 23 14:17:48 <Corsac> DDP?
Nov 23 14:18:00 <GeneralAntilles> N900 discount program
Nov 23 14:18:07 <Corsac> ok
Nov 23 14:18:07 <RST38h> URL?
Nov 23 14:18:18 <GeneralAntilles> Which, weren't we moving away from using "Developer" in that. . . .
Nov 23 14:18:33 <penguinb82> device discount program
Nov 23 14:18:37 <GeneralAntilles> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=387051&postcount=441
Nov 23 14:18:43 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, right.
Nov 23 14:18:44 <Corsac> (I'll make sure not to break the device I don't have)
Nov 23 14:18:48 <Stskeeps> lardman: i see a define for omaplcd 240x320, probably not the right resolutiom (embedded/omap24xx_lcd/kernel)
Nov 23 14:18:52 * GeneralAntilles should still put his glasses on.
Nov 23 14:22:50 <papo> Shapeshifter: Hm interesting, this one seems to come with a QWERTY layout: http://www.expansys.ch/d.aspx?i=188856
Nov 23 14:23:38 <Shapeshifter> papo: mhh, interesting
Nov 23 14:23:55 <lardman> Stskeeps: ok
Nov 23 14:24:04 <Shapeshifter> papo: but well, I'll buy it subsidised, so I guess expansys is not an option.
Nov 23 14:24:14 <lardman> Stskeeps: will have to save if for this evening I'm afraid, busy doing day-job atm
Nov 23 14:24:28 <lardman> I also wonder whether they've got the fb location wrong
Nov 23 14:24:36 <lardman> but will check later on
Nov 23 14:25:19 <papo> Shapeshifter: Hm no plans for subsidies here, but still not sure :)
Nov 23 14:30:10 <Shapeshifter> Does anyone know how to get sqlite3 into python in the SDK? (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34942) :|
Nov 23 14:31:47 <lizardo> Shapeshifter: which python2.5 version you have installed ?
Nov 23 14:32:30 <lizardo> Shapeshifter: the "error" you mention is just a warning, no problem there :)
Nov 23 14:32:43 <Stskeeps> lardman: are there any other knowledged people in mbx than you and javispedro? can't recall who investigated a lot back the
Nov 23 14:32:53 <lardman> ph5
Nov 23 14:32:56 <lizardo> Shapeshifter: I have 2.5.4-1maemo3 here and "import sqlite3" works on it
Nov 23 14:33:02 <lardman> he wrote some code to switch the chipset on
Nov 23 14:33:17 <lizardo> Shapeshifter: also make sure you are calling "python2.5" , not just "python"
Nov 23 14:33:23 <Stskeeps> ~seen ph5
Nov 23 14:33:25 <infobot> ph5 <n=ph5@e178203008.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 3d 21h 1m 24s ago, saying: 'hi woglinde'.
Nov 23 14:33:42 <lardman> I've got an email for him, hang on a tick
Nov 23 14:33:43 <Shapeshifter> lizardo: ohhh, that was the problem, I just called "python"
Nov 23 14:33:47 <Shapeshifter> lizardo: thanks!
Nov 23 14:33:59 <moo__> what dependencies I need to list in debian control file if I build Qt app for N900?
Nov 23 14:34:13 <lizardo> Shapeshifter: np ;)
Nov 23 14:35:09 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, what's progress on the drivers?
Nov 23 14:35:17 <vesa> is it possible to use binary shaders on the n900?
Nov 23 14:35:30 <Shapeshifter> ha!!
Nov 23 14:35:32 <Shapeshifter> this is amazing
Nov 23 14:35:43 <Shapeshifter> I _love_ this.
Nov 23 14:36:01 <Shapeshifter> I just ran the python calendar I wrote on the SDK and it just works xD
Nov 23 14:36:03 <Shapeshifter> oooh joy
Nov 23 14:36:15 <lardman> anyone bored?
Nov 23 14:36:37 <Corsac> I love when people are amazed by thing working correctly :) We live in a world where it's the exception
Nov 23 14:36:39 <lardman> I quite fancy a game of battlegwled, anyone want to package it for fremantle? ;)
Nov 23 14:36:55 <Shapeshifter> Corsac: ^^
Nov 23 14:37:10 <Shapeshifter> mhh. Is there a hildonized Qt theme on the repos?
Nov 23 14:37:47 <Shapeshifter> Or how would I best apply a hildonized qt theme to qt? It seems like there's no qtconfig on maemo.
Nov 23 14:38:20 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, somebody should talk to INdT.
Nov 23 14:39:06 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: I guess Stskeeps has sorted that through Nokia
Nov 23 14:39:10 <lardman> oh
Nov 23 14:39:13 <lardman> the game you mean?
Nov 23 14:39:14 <lardman> :)
Nov 23 14:39:20 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Nov 23 14:39:35 <Flandry_> sorted how?
Nov 23 14:39:46 <Shapeshifter> ahh this is so awesome. Gives me a huge motivational boost in finishing this calendar.
Nov 23 14:39:50 <Shapeshifter> I quite fancy it.
Nov 23 14:39:50 <lardman> ignore me, wires crossed
Nov 23 14:40:03 <Shapeshifter> Need to optimize it for maemo.
Nov 23 14:40:22 <lardman> setanta: ping
Nov 23 14:40:38 <lardman> setanta: any chance of a Fremantle version of battlegweled?
Nov 23 14:46:05 <lardman> bbiab
Nov 23 14:47:36 <moo__> are there instructions how to set up cross-compilation scratchbox over WLAN? USB networking is major pain in the ass and seems to require R&D mode
Nov 23 14:51:39 <setanta> lardman|gone, i'm no longer the maintainer (but I suppose my name is still there)
Nov 23 14:51:54 <setanta> I will check who have taken it
Nov 23 14:56:48 <Flandry_> Can anyone successfully view this page: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/uqm-3do-data/0.6.7-0maemo/
Nov 23 14:58:34 <Flandry_> I get a PHP error every time
Nov 23 14:59:03 <CoreFusion-> is t.m.o down?
Nov 23 14:59:37 <CoreFusion-> nvm
Nov 23 14:59:42 <CoreFusion-> just very very slow
Nov 23 15:02:43 <timeless_mbp> ooh
Nov 23 15:02:46 <timeless_mbp> i got bug 6300 :)
Nov 23 15:02:48 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6300 http:// is converted into some strange frowny face
Nov 23 15:02:49 <timeless_mbp> and i wasn't even trying
Nov 23 15:05:34 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, I really wish you could turn those damn smilies off.
Nov 23 15:06:02 <GeneralAntilles> They don't respect the autocomplete settings, either.
Nov 23 15:11:38 <GeneralAntilles> Flandry_, no.
Nov 23 15:11:44 <GeneralAntilles> Timeout here.
Nov 23 15:13:43 <Flandry_> No PHP error, just timeout?
Nov 23 15:14:01 <GeneralAntilles> PHP error could be a timeout on another machine
Nov 23 15:14:32 <sp3000> yeah the yellow discs make it hard to tell what people are saying
Nov 23 15:14:36 <Flandry_> Yeah probably, it's a timeout PHP error, it's just consistent for this package and not my other one so i think there's something more to it.
Nov 23 15:14:44 <Flandry_> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6301
Nov 23 15:14:45 <povbot> Bug 6301: PHP Error when trying to view package instance page to promote.
Nov 23 15:14:56 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, PHP now
Nov 23 15:14:58 <GeneralAntilles> the machine's overloaded.
Nov 23 15:15:03 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, ho, what a surprise.
Nov 23 15:15:15 <sp3000> as if smilies were intended to be random pretty pictures >:|
Nov 23 15:15:39 <xorAxAx> i like this smiley: %-)
Nov 23 15:15:46 <lardman> hmm, is there a proper debian way to compile the N8x0 kernel?
Nov 23 15:17:24 <Stskeeps> lardman: best way is to use sb in this case i thik
Nov 23 15:17:50 <lardman> yeah, but I was just thinking that as there's a debian dir in there, the old manual make is perhaps out the window
Nov 23 15:22:12 <Stskeeps> lardman: spotted embedded/3rdparty/omap24x_lcd/kernel/omaplcd_linux.c .. fbsize is definately a bit low
Nov 23 15:22:19 <Stskeeps> (240*320*2)
Nov 23 15:22:34 <Stskeeps> or not.. hmm
Nov 23 15:22:47 <lardman> yeah that's low
Nov 23 15:23:18 <lardman> even pixels would need to be x4, so I guess it's in bytes
Nov 23 15:23:38 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 23 15:23:40 * lardman just builds Diablo kernel as a starting point
Nov 23 15:24:55 <Stskeeps> the good news (i guess), is that we could possibly make a display driver like omaplcd that pushes to our untraditional one instead
Nov 23 15:25:53 <lardman> yeah, I imagine that will be the way to do it
Nov 23 15:29:43 <lardman> hmm, I wonder if we'll need to fiddle with the pm stuff
Nov 23 15:29:51 <Stskeeps> eventually maybe
Nov 23 15:30:04 <Stskeeps> technically we should check on a completely non-X and none fbcon thing at some poin
Nov 23 15:31:43 <lardman> yeah
Nov 23 15:34:03 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: what are your plans for the evening?
Nov 23 15:34:23 <qwerty12> Stskeeps: Why, may I ask?
Nov 23 15:34:39 <lardman> no you may not
Nov 23 15:34:43 <lardman> it's a lucky dip
Nov 23 15:35:03 <qwerty12> lardman: I asked the pimp to answer; not his bitch
Nov 23 15:35:08 <lardman> lol
Nov 23 15:39:27 <Stskeeps> lardman: qwerty12'll take a look at them alongside
Nov 23 15:39:37 <lardman> cool
Nov 23 15:39:52 <lardman> does a kernel build usually take forever? I've not done one for ages
Nov 23 15:40:09 <lardman> have been sat on HOSTLD  scripts/kconfig/conf forever
Nov 23 15:42:45 <till-> my kernel compilation took about 20-60 minutes, depending on the machine
Nov 23 15:43:07 <lardman> hmm, just wondering if qemu has got its knickers in a twist
Nov 23 15:43:29 <lardman> should be reasonably quick here - dual 2.13GHz + 4Gb of RAM and is pegged at 100%
Nov 23 15:43:51 <Veggen> lardman: They don't any more, but I *can* remember doing kernel compilations on my old 386/25 in 1995, having it use about 24 hours ;)
Nov 23 15:44:13 <SpeedEvil> Veggen: Sounds unlikely.
Nov 23 15:44:18 <SpeedEvil> Veggen: unless it was swapping lots
Nov 23 15:44:22 <GeneralAntilles> Out of groceries one day too early.
Nov 23 15:44:27 <lardman> yeah I started doing OE builds on a P2-400 w/ 64Mb of RAM, took a fair while :)
Nov 23 15:44:38 * SpeedEvil is grocery shopping monthly online.
Nov 23 15:46:06 <lbt> hi ... any council here?
Nov 23 15:46:28 <lbt> VDVsx: ping...
Nov 23 15:46:32 <Flandry_> i'm a council of one. What do you need? :P
Nov 23 15:46:42 <lbt> a flight booking please
Nov 23 15:46:51 <lbt> since you offer :)
Nov 23 15:46:54 <Flandry_> ha
Nov 23 15:46:59 <Flandry_> wouldn't that be nice
Nov 23 15:47:01 * lbt thinks that's very geberous
Nov 23 15:47:26 <Flandry_> leave my gebel out of this
Nov 23 15:47:30 <lardman> yeah, was just locked up
Nov 23 15:48:24 <GeneralAntilles> lbt, did you get the email from Quim?
Nov 23 15:48:41 <VDVsx> lbt, yes
Nov 23 15:49:26 <lbt> GeneralAntilles: no, from 'Jaffa;
Nov 23 15:49:51 <VDVsx> lbt, lol, so someone hit the wrong button
Nov 23 15:49:56 <lbt> I was just asking if the were right - it's a duplicate
Nov 23 15:50:19 <lbt> sure - so checking if I was accepted for Barcelona
Nov 23 15:51:09 <VDVsx> lbt, so you received a email about the summit instead of one about barcelona ?
Nov 23 15:51:16 <lbt> yes
Nov 23 15:51:36 <lbt> I assumed it was barcelona but best check first
Nov 23 15:51:44 <VDVsx> that's strange, better check with Quim
Nov 23 15:52:39 <VDVsx> mine is correct :)
Nov 23 15:53:11 <lbt> Subject: 	Maemo - Barcelona Long Weekend registration
Nov 23 15:53:19 <lbt> content:.... Summit
Nov 23 15:54:15 <lbt> so who checks? the email is signed jaffa/community council
Nov 23 15:54:37 <VDVsx> strange, I've "We are pleased to approve your sponsorship request[1] for the Maemo - Barcelona Long Weekend to be held on December 4th - 6th[2]."
Nov 23 15:54:53 <VDVsx> "We look forward to seeing you in Barcelona!
Nov 23 15:54:53 <VDVsx> Best wishes,
Nov 23 15:54:53 <VDVsx> Quim Gil"
Nov 23 15:55:46 <lardman> mmmm, honey roast peanuts
Nov 23 15:55:54 <lardman> sorry, slightly ot
Nov 23 15:56:16 <VDVsx> lbt, anyway check with Quim, he probably hit the wrong button :)
Nov 23 15:57:12 <lbt> OK, I will
Nov 23 15:57:24 <VDVsx> the requests for this event aren't approved by the council :)
Nov 23 15:57:24 <lbt> lardman: salted cashew nuts
Nov 23 15:57:38 <lardman> I don;t much like cashews :)
Nov 23 15:57:49 <lardman> but pecans are good
Nov 23 15:57:50 <lbt> good, I'll have them
Nov 23 15:58:20 <lardman> ok, I think my wife has had enough of my eating all the others and just leaving them for her anyway :)
Nov 23 16:00:42 <hrw> one thing...
Nov 23 16:01:13 <hrw> DDP gaves 1 week warranty on device (which suxx). but did someone created a list of things to be checked during that week?
Nov 23 16:01:38 <bkonrath> quick question: does anyone know if hail - the accessibility implementation for hildon - works with maemo 5?
Nov 23 16:02:13 <SpeedEvil> hrw: I suppose accidental damage insurance is a prudent thing in that event.
Nov 23 16:02:41 <hrw> SpeedEvil: that other thing
Nov 23 16:05:21 <SpeedEvil> Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Nov 23 16:05:26 <SpeedEvil> Dear Customer,
Nov 23 16:05:26 <SpeedEvil> The item below is now in stock and this portion of your order has been  released for processing.
Nov 23 16:06:34 <zaheerm> SpeedEvil, ddp?
Nov 23 16:06:54 <SpeedEvil> (nokia.co.uk order - on the 20th oct
Nov 23 16:07:03 <w00t_> SpeedEvil: got it too :)
Nov 23 16:07:07 * w00t_ dances
Nov 23 16:07:16 * SpeedEvil did not qualify for DDP - as openmoko karma diddn't count.
Nov 23 16:07:31 <hrw> SpeedEvil: you should complain more on planet.maemo.org
Nov 23 16:07:52 <SpeedEvil> hrw: I don't have the energy.
Nov 23 16:08:10 <hrw> I do, thats why I had higher karma
Nov 23 16:08:41 <zaheerm> SpeedEvil, aah my order (on behalf of my cto) has got that email too
Nov 23 16:09:24 <SpeedEvil> hrw: however - I abused discount codes.
Nov 23 16:09:27 <bilboed-pi> zaheerm, you ordered one ? :)
Nov 23 16:09:51 <derf> zaheerm: Your CTO being thomasvs?
Nov 23 16:10:11 <bilboed-pi> derf, *cough* :)
Nov 23 16:10:14 <zaheerm> derf, yes
Nov 23 16:10:28 <zaheerm> bilboed-pi, yes thomas had issues with nokia
Nov 23 16:10:42 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. 'Tracking information  is posted to the site the following business day (Monday-Friday) after the  product has shipped.'
Nov 23 16:11:01 <zaheerm> bilboed-pi, spanish site doesn't give uk keyboards, uk site doesn't accept non uk credit cards....
Nov 23 16:11:24 <bilboed-pi> reminds me...
Nov 23 16:12:15 <|R> Anyone think MobileCityOnline will actually get stock tomorrow?
Nov 23 16:13:03 <hrw> zaheerm: I ordered n810 in Expansys.co.uk and paid with Polish card
Nov 23 16:14:37 <zaheerm> hrw, yes that is different to nokia itself, i think play.com would have accepted a non uk card too
Nov 23 16:14:56 <VDVsx> bkonrath, not sure, better ask the developers, or someone from Igalia :)
Nov 23 16:15:49 <admiral0_> hi guys i've got no sound on my n900
Nov 23 16:16:19 <dmj7263> hi zaheerm
Nov 23 16:17:01 <admiral0_> any suggestion?
Nov 23 16:17:12 <dmj7263> admiral0_: What have you been doing recently with it?
Nov 23 16:17:21 <admiral0_> just unpacked
Nov 23 16:17:25 <SpeedEvil> And debit taken too.
Nov 23 16:17:28 <admiral0_> and tried to make a call
Nov 23 16:17:37 <dmj7263> so it's not working out of the box?
Nov 23 16:17:44 <zaheerm> dmj7263, hiya
Nov 23 16:17:46 <admiral0_> yep
Nov 23 16:17:50 <dmj7263> hmm
Nov 23 16:17:54 <admiral0_> module seems not loaded
Nov 23 16:18:13 <dmj7263> zaheerm: Hows the zope thing coming?
Nov 23 16:18:19 <GeneralAntilles> admiral0_, it's not muted, is it?
Nov 23 16:18:21 <GeneralAntilles> Nor in silent?
Nov 23 16:18:37 <GeneralAntilles> hrw, dead pixels, probably.
Nov 23 16:18:38 <admiral0_> full volume
Nov 23 16:19:01 <GeneralAntilles> admiral0_, no phone ring?
Nov 23 16:19:14 <admiral0_> no
Nov 23 16:19:37 <zaheerm> dmj7263, a 4 year old nephew has been in the way :)
Nov 23 16:19:37 <VDVsx> general profile ?
Nov 23 16:19:47 <dmj7263> I see.
Nov 23 16:20:56 <dmj726> zaheerm: I've been a bit busy with returning home for thanksgiving too.
Nov 23 16:21:09 <lardman> qwerty12: you looking now?
Nov 23 16:21:19 <dmj726> Didn't have my computer setup again until yesterday.
Nov 23 16:21:23 <lardman> need to setup a struct of some description to pass to the main driver
Nov 23 16:21:34 <qwerty12> lardman: Cleaning the dust off my DIABLO_ARMEL target, yes
Nov 23 16:21:48 <lardman> looks quite painful actually as their lcd driver is very heavily intertwined
Nov 23 16:21:51 <bkonrath> VDVsx: thanks
Nov 23 16:22:06 <Stskeeps> lardman: checked the build scripts?
Nov 23 16:22:17 <lardman> nah still looking at the code
Nov 23 16:22:30 <VDVsx> bkonrath, the developer is probably here, but I don't know his nickname:)
Nov 23 16:22:58 <dmj726> zaheerm: Started working on a GUI for the webcomic reader app, but the backend I want to use needs zope, so I can't really hook the gui into anything until zope is on there.
Nov 23 16:23:07 <admiral0_> any idea?
Nov 23 16:23:23 <bkonrath> VDVsx: ok, maybe i should post a message to the list
Nov 23 16:23:37 <dmj726> I realized the armel deb won't do much, since scratchbox is a little light on armel support for gui apps.
Nov 23 16:24:07 <zaheerm> dmj726, give me a couple of days, issue i have is the pyvan is a bit buggered in scratchbox
Nov 23 16:24:11 <VDVsx> bkonrath, yup, better idea
Nov 23 16:24:42 <lardman> actually the display class init code is probably ok, if we can unwind it and work out exactly what the mbx wants passed to it
Nov 23 16:25:02 <dmj726> zaheerm: Thanks.
Nov 23 16:25:35 <dmj726> by pyvan you mean python?
Nov 23 16:28:36 <admiral0_> stupid pulseaudio
Nov 23 16:28:46 <admiral0_> i am almost sure it's its fault
Nov 23 16:29:44 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: dead pixels, quality of microsd slot, internal storage etc
Nov 23 16:30:06 * mgedmin doubts admiral0_'s conclusion
Nov 23 16:30:38 <GeneralAntilles> admiral0_, yeah, doubt that.
Nov 23 16:30:46 <GeneralAntilles> admiral0_, Nokia's got their own audio drivers.
Nov 23 16:30:52 <GeneralAntilles> admiral0_, if you think it's that, reflash it.
Nov 23 16:31:08 <admiral0_> alsamixer: libpulse.c: Connection refused
Nov 23 16:31:23 <AndrewFBlack> I got 3 movies with the digital movie copy with them only to find out that the digial copy only players on devies with drm thats lame back to ripping my movies again I guess
Nov 23 16:31:23 <admiral0_>  a wiki to reflash?
Nov 23 16:31:29 <GeneralAntilles> ~flashing
Nov 23 16:31:29 <infobot> methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Nov 23 16:31:34 <admiral0_> danke
Nov 23 16:36:43 <lardman> Stskeeps: you see the X modifications there anywhere?
Nov 23 16:37:15 <Stskeeps> lardman: no, not in this part
Nov 23 16:37:27 <lardman> ah ok
Nov 23 16:37:29 <Stskeeps> we can move on to x mods when we have this part going
Nov 23 16:37:41 <lardman> yeah, was just looking at the build scripts
Nov 23 16:37:53 <Stskeeps> maybe in style of fbdev from fremantle
Nov 23 16:38:14 <admiral0_> 8 mon till download complete
Nov 23 16:38:17 <admiral0_> min*
Nov 23 16:40:01 <toggles_w> how does dell end up shipping before amazon???
Nov 23 16:40:07 * toggles_w is not happy
Nov 23 16:44:52 <Stskeeps> 'lo ph5
Nov 23 16:45:00 <Stskeeps> (sent you an mail earlier)
Nov 23 16:45:16 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, triage bug #6272 yet? ;)
Nov 23 16:45:18 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6272 User-friendliness fail
Nov 23 16:46:02 <pH5> hi Stskeeps, yeah, just downloading the archive.
Nov 23 16:47:25 <microlith> man, fuck chase credit and fuck nokia usa
Nov 23 16:48:02 <lardman> hmm, I think I'm going to try ignoring their fb/lcd code and look at what the kernel driver needs to be passed when it's init'd
Nov 23 16:48:30 * lardman has to pop to the shops quickly
Nov 23 16:53:14 <mgedmin> not a very descriptive bug title
Nov 23 16:53:14 <wazd> maemo 5 file copy pop-up is really frustrating
Nov 23 16:53:50 <admiral0_> fuck it
Nov 23 16:53:52 * mgedmin never seen it
Nov 23 16:53:56 <admiral0_> it was the italian firmware
Nov 23 16:54:01 <GeneralAntilles> mgedmin, indeed.
Nov 23 16:54:09 <admiral0_> i was really really scared
Nov 23 16:54:17 <hrw> #1
Nov 23 16:54:27 <qwerty12> bug #1
Nov 23 16:54:29 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it
Nov 23 16:55:01 <qwerty12> How lame
Nov 23 16:55:13 <Stskeeps> bug #2
Nov 23 16:55:15 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2 Static linking under SDK-PC does not work
Nov 23 16:55:18 <Stskeeps> heh
Nov 23 16:55:19 <Xisdibik> good morning maemoers
Nov 23 16:55:33 <hrw> Xisdibik: not so good but morning
Nov 23 16:55:54 <Xisdibik> why not so good hrw ?
Nov 23 16:57:58 <mgedmin> heh, maemo's bug #1 is easier to fix than ubuntu's bug #1
Nov 23 17:03:20 <microlith> why does nokia force you to go through their phone system for orders until you own a phone
Nov 23 17:03:31 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Nov 23 17:03:36 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia USA is such a joke.
Nov 23 17:03:41 <microlith> horrible joke
Nov 23 17:03:44 <GeneralAntilles> They just need to axe the whole department and start from scratch.
Nov 23 17:03:55 <Vulcanis> or just axe it
Nov 23 17:04:01 <Vulcanis> put the money elsewhere
Nov 23 17:04:04 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia's failure to sell phones in the US is completely and entirely deserved.
Nov 23 17:05:03 <Vulcanis> their normal phones aren't that great from what I've seen... their tablets and smartphones aren't marketed well enough
Nov 23 17:05:11 <frals> im pretty much in love with nokia sweden since they decided not to ship any n900s until version "1.1" is released
Nov 23 17:05:24 <GeneralAntilles> Their normal phones are better than Samsung's normal phones.
Nov 23 17:05:34 <Vulcanis> GeneralAntilles: Yeah, not the verizon ones :\
Nov 23 17:05:37 <GeneralAntilles> frals, yeah, pretty silly.
Nov 23 17:05:48 <GeneralAntilles> frals, can't you get it from another reseller, though?
Nov 23 17:06:02 <qwerty12> frals: Get those bank robbers to target Nokia Sweden
Nov 23 17:06:07 <qwerty12> That'll teach 'em
Nov 23 17:06:08 <frals> i could order it from finland, but warranties and stuff usually gets pretty fubar then
Nov 23 17:06:22 <GeneralAntilles> frals, what about Amazon or the local equivalent?
Nov 23 17:06:47 <frals> no resellers are getting any until nokia sweden "releases" the hold on it it seems
Nov 23 17:06:53 <GeneralAntilles> Ah
Nov 23 17:07:06 <qwerty12> frals: Are you even on 3? :)
Nov 23 17:07:09 <frals> nope
Nov 23 17:07:17 <qwerty12> Ouch
Nov 23 17:07:24 <frals> thats the best part, you can't get one even if you acknowledge you know it might not work for you
Nov 23 17:07:28 <GeneralAntilles> frals, well, supposedly 1.1 should be out next month.
Nov 23 17:07:33 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully it wont be more than a few weeks.
Nov 23 17:07:42 <GeneralAntilles> The retail firmware is already pretty old.
Nov 23 17:08:07 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: hopefully is good word
Nov 23 17:08:27 <frals> aye, ive come to the point where it doesnt really matter anymore, wouldve been nice to be able to test and get mms working soon, but meh :P
Nov 23 17:13:33 <microlith> what the hell
Nov 23 17:13:57 <zaheerm> my credit card company declined my transaction
Nov 23 17:14:07 <zaheerm> and called me up for security
Nov 23 17:14:12 <zaheerm> nokia cancelled my order
Nov 23 17:14:22 <zaheerm> had to re-do the order
Nov 23 17:14:25 <Klowner> ohh :(
Nov 23 17:14:32 <microlith> the order I just tried to place with my debit card was -instantly- denied
Nov 23 17:14:48 <microlith> and they're saying some bullshit about 3 business days
Nov 23 17:14:57 <mgedmin> huh?
Nov 23 17:15:16 <SpeedEvil> microlith: multiple transactions?
Nov 23 17:15:31 <microlith> SpeedEvil: all of which should have been terminated at this point
Nov 23 17:16:08 <GeneralAntilles> Irritating
Nov 23 17:17:51 <timeless_mbp> help?
Nov 23 17:17:51 <timeless_mbp> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
Nov 23 17:18:04 <timeless_mbp> could someone please explain which thing i want if i want a vmware image of an sdk?
Nov 23 17:18:53 <lcuk> timeless http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org
Nov 23 17:19:04 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, none of them?
Nov 23 17:19:07 <timeless_mbp> garage doesn't seem to be particularly responsive
Nov 23 17:19:18 <GeneralAntilles> They're all old, aren't they?
Nov 23 17:19:23 <hrw> timeless_mbp: interpid one
Nov 23 17:19:26 <lcuk> the vmware is not provided directly as a vmware image (its outside the scope of system update)
Nov 23 17:19:41 <timeless_mbp> hrw: there are a bunch of those
Nov 23 17:19:44 <timeless_mbp> do i want the server one?
Nov 23 17:19:49 <timeless_mbp> why is the server one so much smaller?
Nov 23 17:20:03 <GeneralAntilles> No desktop, maybe?
Nov 23 17:20:04 <hrw> timeless_mbp: PreFinal_2_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image one is what I used (two parts one)
Nov 23 17:20:13 <lcuk> since the gui installer works nicely, you can happily grab a debian/ubuntu vmware image and install the sdk directly into that
Nov 23 17:20:31 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: i love how they don't have datestamps
Nov 23 17:20:43 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: i'm incredibly lazy :)
Nov 23 17:20:59 <hrw> timeless_mbp: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_PreFinal_2_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Splitted.zip ones
Nov 23 17:21:13 <hrw> timeless_mbp: then do apt-get update/upgrade in sbox
Nov 23 17:21:26 <hrw> timeless_mbp: works with virtualbox
Nov 23 17:21:41 <Xisdibik> alright GeneralAntilles did you break talk.maemo.org?
Nov 23 17:21:42 <lcuk> timeless, +1 you arent the only one
Nov 23 17:21:43 <timeless_mbp> but that's "prefinal"
Nov 23 17:21:44 <hrw> especially when I compiled virtualbox image additions under it
Nov 23 17:21:48 <Xisdibik> nvm its loading now
Nov 23 17:21:56 <GeneralAntilles> Xisdibik, muahaha!
Nov 23 17:21:59 <hrw> timeless_mbp: you can update it to final...
Nov 23 17:27:31 <timeless_mbp> hey, where in the vmware sdk image does it say "user = maemo; password = maemo" ?
Nov 23 17:27:43 <JosefAssad> t.m.o is a bit odd today
Nov 23 17:27:58 <JosefAssad> or, now.
Nov 23 17:28:09 <timeless_mbp> is that unusual?
Nov 23 17:28:50 <JosefAssad> well. maemo.org is loading faster than t.m.o. maemo.org loading faster than anything is news
Nov 23 17:29:58 <|R> t.m.o doesn't even load for me right now
Nov 23 17:30:23 <JosefAssad> indeedy
Nov 23 17:31:18 <GAN900> Ugh
Nov 23 17:31:32 <GAN900> Why is Haze completely and utterly broken?
Nov 23 17:31:54 <VDVsx> konttori, hey
Nov 23 17:32:08 <konttori> hey
Nov 23 17:32:34 <VDVsx> konttori, I tried canola in the other day and the contact are shown when I press a key o_0
Nov 23 17:32:54 <konttori> yeah, issue in enlightment
Nov 23 17:33:00 <konttori> they are not grabbing the input.
Nov 23 17:33:09 * timeless_mbp frowns
Nov 23 17:33:15 <konttori> anyway, fixed in fremantle (latest)
Nov 23 17:33:18 <timeless_mbp> oh, anyone remember why i was supposed to kick konttori ? :)
Nov 23 17:33:24 <konttori> not me
Nov 23 17:33:43 <timeless_mbp> i think i do
Nov 23 17:33:47 <timeless_mbp> stick around for a minute :)
Nov 23 17:33:48 <VDVsx> konttori, ah, because you said that nothing happens with your newer image :P
Nov 23 17:35:14 <timeless_mbp> konttori: bug 2899
Nov 23 17:35:15 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2899 List of hardware keyboard layouts is not expandable
Nov 23 17:35:35 <timeless_mbp> claiming that something is fixed because a third party package can replace a system component
Nov 23 17:35:39 <timeless_mbp> is not a valid "FIXED"
Nov 23 17:35:48 <timeless_mbp> it isn't even "WORKSFORME"
Nov 23 17:35:53 <timeless_mbp> it's "WORKAROUNDAVAILABLE"
Nov 23 17:36:51 <konttori> lol
Nov 23 17:37:31 * timeless_mbp kicks konttori 
Nov 23 17:37:34 <VDVsx> timeless_mbp, ins't the bug about extend the list of available kb, like support for some sort of plugins system ?
Nov 23 17:37:35 <timeless_mbp> thanks for sticking around
Nov 23 17:37:43 <VDVsx> seems valid for me :P
Nov 23 17:37:44 <timeless_mbp> VDVsx: yes
Nov 23 17:37:48 <timeless_mbp> the bug is perfectly valid
Nov 23 17:37:51 <timeless_mbp> but it is not at all fixed
Nov 23 17:37:55 <timeless_mbp> which is my point
Nov 23 17:38:01 <timeless_mbp> hence my desire to kick konttori
Nov 23 17:38:17 <VDVsx> so, now you can extend the keyboard list ?
Nov 23 17:38:26 <timeless_mbp> no
Nov 23 17:38:28 <VDVsx> the kb in extras-testing is the proof :P
Nov 23 17:38:30 <timeless_mbp> you can't
Nov 23 17:38:33 <timeless_mbp> no
Nov 23 17:38:34 <timeless_mbp> it isn't
Nov 23 17:38:38 <timeless_mbp> it replaces the control panel
Nov 23 17:38:41 <timeless_mbp> that's not expanding it
Nov 23 17:38:41 <konttori> I asked input method guys to take a look at a better solution
Nov 23 17:38:55 <konttori> (like 2 mins ago)
Nov 23 17:39:00 <VDVsx> timeless_mbp, ah, right ;)
Nov 23 17:39:01 <timeless_mbp> konttori: thanks
Nov 23 17:40:43 <VDVsx> timeless_mbp, btw, I can't edit some values in  microB about:conf, did you saw that bug ?
Nov 23 17:41:17 <paroneayea> zaheerm: yeah, I had the same problem with the online nokia store too... twice.
Nov 23 17:41:36 <paroneayea> and then they didn't let me order from there any more because my card was flagged, apparently I would have to do it over the phone
Nov 23 17:41:43 <paroneayea> so I gave up and ordered on amazon
Nov 23 17:41:55 <zaheerm> paroneayea, it means your order goes to the back of the queue :(
Nov 23 17:42:08 <paroneayea> then canceled my amazon order when it came in to the chicago nokia store and picked one up directly ;)
Nov 23 17:42:29 <zaheerm> paroneayea, is it already in store for non-preorder customers there?
Nov 23 17:42:35 <paroneayea> yep
Nov 23 17:44:02 <dmj726> paroneayea: How much?
Nov 23 17:44:14 <paroneayea> dmj726: $560 USD
Nov 23 17:44:34 <dmj726> $560 at Nokia Store?
Nov 23 17:44:40 <paroneayea> and there's some rebate thingy in the box
Nov 23 17:44:40 <paroneayea> yeah
Nov 23 17:44:52 <dmj726> So 510 after rebate?
Nov 23 17:45:11 <paroneayea> it ended up being about 1200-something after tax
Nov 23 17:45:13 <paroneayea> but yeah
Nov 23 17:45:18 <zaheerm> 1200 ?
Nov 23 17:45:22 <dmj726> ?
Nov 23 17:45:26 <zaheerm> for 2?
Nov 23 17:45:32 <paroneayea> yeah
Nov 23 17:45:38 <paroneayea> my wife and I both got one
Nov 23 17:45:43 <microlith> wow
Nov 23 17:45:47 <microlith> nokia can go die in a fire
Nov 23 17:46:17 <paroneayea> I will note that she is a non-hacker and she is equally pleased with the device
Nov 23 17:46:23 <zaheerm> microlith, they still won't accept your order?
Nov 23 17:46:35 <microlith> zaheerm: I told 'em to just cancel all orders
Nov 23 17:46:42 <zaheerm> paroneayea, yah my wife has one too (6 month loaner) and she loves it being a non-hacker
Nov 23 17:46:55 <microlith> wasted my time for four months only to fuck me over in the end
Nov 23 17:47:25 <microlith> why is nokia still showing a preorder with headset on their site?
Nov 23 17:47:39 <timeless_mbp> VDVsx: i saw it earlier, i thought i assigned it to someone
Nov 23 17:47:44 <paroneayea> microlith: yeah, the key is to *not* order through nokia's shitty online store :P
Nov 23 17:47:50 <timeless_mbp> we were actually talking about it just a few minutes ago
Nov 23 17:47:50 <paroneayea> the woman on the phone even told me:
Nov 23 17:48:00 <paroneayea> "we recommend that people do this on the phone instead of using our online store"
Nov 23 17:48:04 <paroneayea> "because it is very finnicky"
Nov 23 17:48:11 <microlith> their phone service is worse
Nov 23 17:48:17 <microlith> because I can't understand what they're mumbling
Nov 23 17:48:18 <timeless_mbp> paroneayea: finnicky is like finnishy :)
Nov 23 17:48:33 <VDVsx> timeless_mbp, it's very strange because I remember to modify values in one of the earlier images (perhaps only strings)
Nov 23 17:48:42 <zaheerm> i tried calling, was on hold for 45 minutes to nokia UK and still got through to noone
Nov 23 17:48:49 <microlith> oddly enough, everyone else has online ordering down to a fucking artform
Nov 23 17:48:57 <timeless_mbp> VDVsx: those tend to be event/focus related
Nov 23 17:49:04 <timeless_mbp> it's definitely possible for us to regress them
Nov 23 17:49:10 <timeless_mbp> don't feel surprised
Nov 23 17:49:14 <VDVsx> :)
Nov 23 17:49:18 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, gotta love Windows users trying to do graphics editing.
Nov 23 17:49:20 <GeneralAntilles> "Let me just load up MS Paint here."
Nov 23 17:49:29 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: um
Nov 23 17:49:32 <timeless_mbp> anyway, we're collectively getting dinner
Nov 23 17:49:45 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: MS Paint is good to draw icons
Nov 23 17:49:50 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU
Nov 23 17:49:51 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, use liqbase :)
Nov 23 17:50:08 <hrw> paroneayea: she is fine with device now. ask her after month
Nov 23 17:50:24 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, yes, you can also do that with magic markers, it's hardly recommended, though.
Nov 23 17:50:30 <hrw> ~curse ddp
Nov 23 17:50:32 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, ddp !
Nov 23 17:50:33 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, and only the very exceptional sorts can manage it. :)
Nov 23 17:51:21 <paroneayea> hrw: well I certainly will ask her after a month, however
Nov 23 17:51:29 <paroneayea> she isn't 'fine' with it, she is 'incredibly enthused'
Nov 23 17:53:35 <hrw> paroneayea: is she geek?
Nov 23 17:54:00 <dmj726> if you want the mona lisa, use mypaint
Nov 23 17:54:12 <paroneayea> hrw: nope
Nov 23 17:54:16 <BBNS> tmo has been pretty crazy slow for a day ... mmm o_o
Nov 23 17:58:26 <Flandry_> Quick question: what exactly goes in the XSBC-Bugtracker field of control files? I have a bugtracker entry for my app, but don't know what should go in the field.
Nov 23 17:59:43 <Flandry_> gah nevermind
Nov 23 18:00:18 * Flandry_ gives himself a swift kick to the rear
Nov 23 18:00:19 <zaheerm> BBNS, all these new people with a retail n900 :)
Nov 23 18:01:10 <Ceron^> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk  ALLRIGHT
Nov 23 18:02:08 <inz> Does google wave work with N900?
Nov 23 18:02:21 <zaheerm> inz, yes
Nov 23 18:02:26 <inz> I tried with N810, and it crashed just about right away after it loaded
Nov 23 18:02:28 <inz> cool
Nov 23 18:02:52 <|R> inz: check youtube :)
Nov 23 18:03:23 <inz> |R, nah, I like text based better
Nov 23 18:04:11 <|R> inz: well then check youtube through AA lib, there is a wave/n900 video :P
Nov 23 18:05:17 <inz> |R, if I get the answer from here with one question within a minute, why would I load my flash-enabled browser, look up a video, watch the video to find out the end result
Nov 23 18:05:25 <inz> This works much better; IRC ftw!-)
Nov 23 18:05:52 <|R> hehe
Nov 23 18:05:59 <|R> but ascii art is beautiful! :P
Nov 23 18:06:10 <VDVsx> Flandry_, bugtracker URL
Nov 23 18:06:28 <Flandry_> yeah i looked at another pkg
Nov 23 18:06:28 <|R> anyway, i really hope i get my N900 shipped tomorrow :/
Nov 23 18:06:30 <Flandry_> thanks :)
Nov 23 18:07:44 <hrw> |R: ;)
Nov 23 18:08:00 * hrw gaves up on ddp
Nov 23 18:08:13 <zaheerm> t.m.o is very slow
Nov 23 18:08:24 <BBNS> zaheerm: =] that's a good sign!
Nov 23 18:08:39 <hrw> zaheerm: it is normal speed
Nov 23 18:13:45 <Flandry_> Time for my daily RFT (request for testers): http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/
Nov 23 18:19:51 <BluesLee> i read that some customers from us will get their preordered n900 this week, but what is the situation in europe?
Nov 23 18:20:05 <zaheerm> BluesLee, theoretically this week
Nov 23 18:20:19 <zaheerm> BluesLee, but in practise, only God knows :)
Nov 23 18:21:04 <BluesLee> zaheerm: a further delay would be really bad
Nov 23 18:22:21 <zaheerm> BluesLee, tell that to nokia's retail dept :)
Nov 23 18:22:33 <microlith> heh
Nov 23 18:22:35 <zaheerm> i believe it's all in their hands
Nov 23 18:22:37 <microlith> fuck nokia
Nov 23 18:22:46 <qwerty12> Fuck them yourself
Nov 23 18:22:48 <microlith> good hardware, incompetent shipping
Nov 23 18:23:00 <microlith> or rather, retail operations
Nov 23 18:23:37 <hrw> BluesLee: nokia and selling tablets...
Nov 23 18:24:09 <hrw> BluesLee: I will not be surprised if official nokia shop in Poland still does not know what n900 is.
Nov 23 18:24:33 <BluesLee> hi hrw, greetings to pozna
Nov 23 18:24:59 * kynky got his n900 order processing email at 3.53 (order at nokia retail uk)
Nov 23 18:25:00 <BluesLee> i will not wait a further month
Nov 23 18:25:11 <BluesLee> good news
Nov 23 18:25:40 <kynky> preordered on october 20th
Nov 23 18:25:40 <hrw> BluesLee: I live in Szczecin
Nov 23 18:25:57 <kynky> not got express delivery though :(
Nov 23 18:26:12 <lcuk> kynky, cool they are working so late to get the orders out!
Nov 23 18:26:14 <BluesLee> hrw: i dont know that city
Nov 23 18:26:23 <kynky> lcuk, sweet
Nov 23 18:26:35 <lcuk> or was that pm
Nov 23 18:26:39 <zaheerm> lcuk, 3.53 isn't late ;)
Nov 23 18:26:43 * w00t_ has express delivery \o/
Nov 23 18:27:01 <lcuk> zaheerm, on my 24h clock it is
Nov 23 18:27:16 <zaheerm> lcuk, or early ;)
Nov 23 18:27:31 <kynky> hopefully in my hand between weds and fri
Nov 23 18:27:32 <hrw> bye
Nov 23 18:27:39 <lcuk> hi n bye hrw
Nov 23 18:27:45 <lcuk> zaheerm, indeed
Nov 23 18:28:02 <BluesLee> i preordered mine from amazon.de
Nov 23 18:28:16 <BluesLee> but got no informations yet
Nov 23 18:29:22 <BluesLee> preorder date 19.9
Nov 23 18:30:20 <wao> eh
Nov 23 18:30:25 <wao> amazon bit sucks with these preorders :(
Nov 23 18:31:47 <microlith> not as bad as nokia
Nov 23 18:31:50 <microlith> heh
Nov 23 18:32:12 <kynky> well you wouldexpect nokia to fulfill nokia order first, then nokia retail partners (aka mpd), then amazon etc (at a guess)
Nov 23 18:33:08 <BluesLee> we will see
Nov 23 18:33:17 <BluesLee> maybe christmas
Nov 23 18:33:19 <BluesLee> :-)
Nov 23 18:48:48 <Ufoeke> anyone who knows if the phone service providers lock the n900 ? or are you have to buy it unlocked ?
Nov 23 18:49:04 <RST38h> t.m.o rip?
Nov 23 18:49:24 <RST38h> have to buy unlocked, afaik, at least for now
Nov 23 18:49:42 <andre__> yeah, dead
Nov 23 18:50:54 <Ufoeke> i wanna have dual sim card in it one for internet and one for the phone services ^^
Nov 23 18:50:55 <xorAxAx> will you wear your n900 in your jeans pocket?
Nov 23 18:51:11 <xorAxAx> Ufoeke: also a dual radio?
Nov 23 18:51:13 <Juzna> does anyone have properly working smtp ssl connection on maemo 5
Nov 23 18:51:46 <Ufoeke> xorAxAx i will switch between the cards if the "dual sim" tool will work
Nov 23 18:51:51 <RST38h> Ufoeke: N900 only has one sim card slot
Nov 23 18:52:30 <xorAxAx> how will you carry your n900?
Nov 23 18:52:52 <xorAxAx> its a bit bulky for the trousers' pocket
Nov 23 18:53:18 <Ufoeke> not more bulky then an iphone
Nov 23 18:53:25 <jaw_vvd> hey, does n900 come with a system shell for ssh etc?
Nov 23 18:53:42 <Ufoeke> i will use a dual sim card adapter to get it to work i hope ^^
Nov 23 18:56:40 <ds3> 7
Nov 23 18:57:19 <penguinbait> 8
Nov 23 18:57:25 <comawhite> 9
Nov 23 18:57:35 <Ufoeke> Nokia N900 110.9mm × 59.8mm × 18mm Iphone 3GS 115.5mm x 62.1mm x 12,3mm not so much differense
Nov 23 18:59:38 <xorAxAx> thicker
Nov 23 19:00:04 <penguinbait> thats what she said
Nov 23 19:02:36 <zaheerm> official
Nov 23 19:02:47 <zaheerm> o2 uk cust service suck more than nokia sales
Nov 23 19:03:34 <zaheerm> my mum has gone abroad for 3 weeks, she doesn't pick up calls but anyone that leaves a voicemail it will be charged the roaming rate (even if she doesn't pick up)
Nov 23 19:03:52 <zaheerm> i called to turn it off, they can't do it..has to be done on the handset
Nov 23 19:04:20 <zaheerm> then checked with cust service if the country she's gone to will allow it to be done on the handset
Nov 23 19:04:23 <zaheerm> and they said no
Nov 23 19:04:29 <zaheerm> so i'm screwed either way
Nov 23 19:05:39 <Ufoeke> hmm when i worked at a phone company we just "reseted" location where the phone where last time the person had it on
Nov 23 19:10:56 <[dmp]_> "Using SDK on X86_64 is not supported, but you can install it anyway" the installer says. Does it mean, that Nokia dont official support it, or that it simply wont work?
Nov 23 19:11:18 <Juzna> pfft
Nov 23 19:11:24 <Juzna> still wondering why this smtps fails
Nov 23 19:13:37 <BBNS> [dmp]_:  i think it's simply won't work because qemu and other stuffs.
Nov 23 19:14:59 <dabozz> maemo.org is quite slow at the moment...
Nov 23 19:15:37 <[dmp]_> BBNS: Thanks. Ill try to look for anohter solution then :)
Nov 23 19:16:35 * RST38h moos
Nov 23 19:20:54 <PaulFertser> Hey :) (/me greets inhabitants in a seemingly friendly way)
Nov 23 19:21:15 <PaulFertser> Did anyone try to provide additional external power to the USB host of n810?
Nov 23 19:21:20 <Cr0n_> I need to take pictures from the command line in the n810, which would be the simplest way?
Nov 23 19:21:27 <hrw> re
Nov 23 19:21:47 <PaulFertser> I mean is it safe, won't the internal converter be damaged?
Nov 23 19:21:55 <hrw> Cr0n_: run xterm and use load-applet for taking photos
Nov 23 19:22:02 <RST38h> Assume it is not safe
Nov 23 19:22:05 <PaulFertser> Is a simple kernel patch to make it think it has more power enough for that scheme to work?
Nov 23 19:22:15 <RST38h> Given that it is not your standard PC USB controller
Nov 23 19:22:17 <hrw> PaulFertser: use non-cheap-chinese powered usbhub
Nov 23 19:22:18 <andre__> Cr0n_, there was something like "screenshot-tool -t 20 filename.foo" or similar. no idea if installed by default though :-/
Nov 23 19:22:18 <PaulFertser> RST38h: ok, how do i know for sure? I'd really need to do that.
Nov 23 19:22:31 <PaulFertser> hrw: why can't i provide power right on the bus?
Nov 23 19:22:33 <RST38h> Paul: You know for sure by trying it and burning your N8x0 out
Nov 23 19:22:34 <andre__> Cr0n_, argh.... pictures not screenshots? damn, i"m out
Nov 23 19:22:47 <Juzna> is there any way to debug n900 mail client
Nov 23 19:22:55 <Juzna> it would be nice to get more specific error
Nov 23 19:22:55 <hrw> PaulFertser: because you do not want to fry half of n810
Nov 23 19:22:56 <RST38h> Paul: If this approach is not feasible, I would go with a cheap chinese powered usb hub
Nov 23 19:22:59 <Juzna> because this aint working
Nov 23 19:23:04 <Cr0n_> I will try, thanks
Nov 23 19:23:22 <PaulFertser> hrw: it's a serious claim.
Nov 23 19:23:31 <PaulFertser> hrw: but is it really backed up by anything?
Nov 23 19:23:48 <RST38h> Paukl: No.
Nov 23 19:23:48 <hrw> RST38h: cheap chinese powered usb hubs push power to usb host too
Nov 23 19:24:00 <RST38h> Paul: You should definitely try it to prove hrw wrong.
Nov 23 19:24:09 <RST38h> hrw: Ah! Non-cheap then!
Nov 23 19:24:19 <PaulFertser> RST38h: i could do that after i take a look at the schematics.
Nov 23 19:24:30 <PaulFertser> RST38h: come on, you know what i'm talking about.
Nov 23 19:24:41 <RST38h> Yea. And I would never try it on my hardware.
Nov 23 19:25:03 <RST38h> Because even if you somehow get external schematics and make sure they are ok, there is no way to tell what is going on inside the SoC
Nov 23 19:25:07 <PaulFertser> RST38h: i'm not fear to do that with my own gta02 (openmoko freerunner) because i know for sure it won't fry anything, i've read the converter datasheet etc.
Nov 23 19:25:58 <PaulFertser> RST38h: SoC doesn't care about the power, it cares only about D+ D-. And controls power by GPIO's. Probably it toggles a single gpio that enables the Vsys->Vusb converter.
Nov 23 19:26:41 <timeless> so..
Nov 23 19:26:48 <timeless> stupid question
Nov 23 19:27:00 <timeless> is the sdk based on sbox?
Nov 23 19:27:11 <PaulFertser> I want to ask an advice of anybody who knows n810 hardware...
Nov 23 19:28:00 <hrw> timeless: yes :(
Nov 23 19:28:05 <RST38h> Paul: Wrong place.
Nov 23 19:28:23 <PaulFertser> RST38h: could you possibly be so nice to suggest me a better one?
Nov 23 19:28:34 <PaulFertser> (ah, no _that_ much sarcasm intended)
Nov 23 19:28:39 <hrw> PaulFertser: officially probably no one here knows n810 hardware
Nov 23 19:28:48 <PaulFertser> hrw: and unofficially?
Nov 23 19:28:52 <RST38h> Paul: no (no sarcasm)
Nov 23 19:29:12 <RST38h> Even Nokians frequenting this channel are software guys
Nov 23 19:29:15 <Stskeeps> RST38h: could you explain the weird setup of N8x0 framebuffer/blizzard stuff in a sentence?
Nov 23 19:29:17 <PaulFertser> E.g. it's probably possible for Stskeeps being a nokia employee to have a quick glance over schematics or a quick chat with a hw guy?
Nov 23 19:29:27 <Stskeeps> PaulFertser: i'm not a nokia employee.
Nov 23 19:29:39 <RST38h> Sts: Yea
Nov 23 19:29:44 <PaulFertser> Stskeeps: ah, right, but you have some connections, do not you?
Nov 23 19:29:58 <RST38h> Sts: That is called on-demand LCD refresh
Nov 23 19:30:03 <luke-jr> PaulFertser: unofficially, I think the schematics were leaked on the web
Nov 23 19:30:08 * timeless throws a parsing exception at paul
Nov 23 19:30:13 <RST38h> Sts: You want something more elaborate?
Nov 23 19:30:24 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yes, - does blizzard have a seperate framebuffer?
Nov 23 19:30:30 <Stskeeps> RST38h: it's to deal with MBX drivers, so
Nov 23 19:30:33 <RST38h> Of course it does
Nov 23 19:30:40 <PaulFertser> timeless: lol, there's no exceptions in C, except for hardware but all of those are trapped :p
Nov 23 19:30:53 <Stskeeps> PaulFertser: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2009/10/my-first-day-as-maemoorg-distmaster.html
Nov 23 19:30:54 <PaulFertser> luke-jr: thanks, i'll try to look them up
Nov 23 19:31:10 <timeless> paul: i'm a student of w32
Nov 23 19:31:23 <timeless> we've always had SEH
Nov 23 19:31:35 <RST38h> Sts: Basically, you tell Blizzard to start updating, it initiates DMA access to get image from your buffer in SDRAM into its internal frame buffer. All this time, it is going to use that internal frame buffer (with right scaling factors) to update the LCD
Nov 23 19:31:52 <PaulFertser> My guess is that feeding external 5V power should most probably be safe, it'd say it's 90% probability it's safe. :)
Nov 23 19:32:01 <RST38h> Sts: This scheme is very very common among LCD controllers. Most Nokia Symbian/S60 phones use it for example
Nov 23 19:32:10 <PaulFertser> timeless: heard about it. Managed to almost avoid w32 mess in my life.
Nov 23 19:32:14 <Stskeeps> RST38h: right, so the sdram buffer is not omapfb for instance
Nov 23 19:32:19 <RST38h> correct
Nov 23 19:32:29 <RST38h> noting to do with internal omap2 buffer
Nov 23 19:32:32 <timeless> w32 is a lot cleaner than most alternatives
Nov 23 19:32:41 <RST38h> (which is at 0x06000000 if I remember correctly)
Nov 23 19:33:12 <Stskeeps> RST38h: both are accessible from normal kernel space?
Nov 23 19:33:19 <RST38h> Sts: Probably
Nov 23 19:33:22 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 23 19:33:29 * RST38h isn't sure about the linux stuff
Nov 23 19:35:24 <Stskeeps> stupid question would be, is omapfb even enabled on normal n8x0 kernels? :P
Nov 23 19:37:30 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Well, the ioctl()s I am using come from omapfb
Nov 23 19:37:50 <RST38h> I suspect the driver has simply been extended to support N8x0 video setup
Nov 23 19:38:20 <Stskeeps> ok, so the omapfb driver may simply be redirected to the blizzard fb instead
Nov 23 19:39:06 <PaulFertser> timeless: if to use a message queue (like SysV or posix message queues) you need to create a window that is actually not a window and use callbacks etc etc i can't call it clean ;)
Nov 23 19:39:54 * timeless_mbp shrugs
Nov 23 19:40:02 <timeless_mbp> you're welcome to call it whatever you like
Nov 23 19:40:16 <timeless_mbp> api stability in w32 is a lot better than most platforms
Nov 23 19:40:23 <Cr0n_> I need to take pictures of web cam using command line.The scrennshot-tool is so for screenshot's and not shot.
Nov 23 19:40:25 <Cr0n_> Anybody know any other program
Nov 23 19:40:29 <timeless_mbp> the only platforms i can think of that is better is solaris
Nov 23 19:40:32 <Cr0n_> I need to take pictures of web cam using command line.The scrennshot-tool is so for screenshot's and not shot.
Nov 23 19:40:33 <Cr0n_> Anybody know any other program
Nov 23 19:40:35 <timeless_mbp> and that's limited by the mess that is gnome
Nov 23 19:40:51 <timeless_mbp> Cr0n_: to take a picture of the web cam, you'll need a second camera
Nov 23 19:41:05 <PaulFertser> timeless: api stability leads to the nonsence called w32 api which is a complete mess of all the techniques, bugs and mis-features ms collects over the years. I do not think anyone actually likes it.
Nov 23 19:41:06 <timeless_mbp> are you using the n800 or the n810?
Nov 23 19:41:11 <Cr0n_> n810
Nov 23 19:41:32 <timeless_mbp> Cr0n_: free advice: always mention that when you describe your problem
Nov 23 19:41:43 <timeless_mbp> the natural assumption at this point is that people would ask about the n900
Nov 23 19:41:45 * RST38h sighs
Nov 23 19:41:51 <RST38h> hello javispedro
Nov 23 19:41:55 <Stskeeps> lo javispedro
Nov 23 19:41:58 <javispedro> moo
Nov 23 19:42:04 <javispedro> yeah, saw the payload Sts :)
Nov 23 19:42:54 <xorAxAx> does the n900 offer access to STK menus?
Nov 23 19:43:22 <timeless_mbp> stk?
Nov 23 19:43:26 <xorAxAx> sim toolkit
Nov 23 19:43:54 <xorAxAx> the sim card menu that was built by e.g. the network operator
Nov 23 19:43:57 <Cr0n_> timesless_mbp: I need a program similar to fswebcam, command line to take picture on n810
Nov 23 19:44:03 <xorAxAx> to offer special features
Nov 23 19:44:08 <andre__> like?
Nov 23 19:44:42 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: not out of the box
Nov 23 19:44:42 <RST38h> "Christian Scientists push to insert practice of turning to God for healing into reform legislation."
Nov 23 19:44:48 <mardi__> Anyone in the UK have their N900 pre-order cancelled by shop.nokia.co.uk - could they post here : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=387472#post387472
Nov 23 19:45:11 <xorAxAx> RST38h: are  you a markov news bot?
Nov 23 19:45:17 <xorAxAx> timeless_mbp: a pity
Nov 23 19:45:26 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: it's really critical to you?
Nov 23 19:45:37 <xorAxAx> timeless_mbp: the dual sim adapter i want to try requires it
Nov 23 19:45:46 <xorAxAx> for settings
Nov 23 19:45:58 <SpeedEvil> mardi__: not loading. I've recieved an email saying 'stock now available, processing your order'
Nov 23 19:46:15 <mardi__> so did I,  and then followed by email saying cancelled
Nov 23 19:46:22 <hrw> xorAxAx: probably can forget about it working. but I am pesimist here
Nov 23 19:46:46 <mardi__> site is a bit swamped as appears to have happened to a few people
Nov 23 19:46:55 <xorAxAx> is the sim card easy to exchange?
Nov 23 19:47:22 <andre__> xorAxAx: after opening the backcover and removing the battery: yes
Nov 23 19:47:24 <SpeedEvil> mardi__: did you order using money off codes? And how soon after ?
Nov 23 19:47:24 <lcuk> sure, just send a form in triplicate to Nokia HQ, your service provider and your parents
Nov 23 19:47:32 <xorAxAx> andre__: so like in every other mobile :)
Nov 23 19:47:44 <andre__> hmm. yeah :-)
Nov 23 19:47:44 * hrw starts to write another complaining post
Nov 23 19:47:46 <SpeedEvil> mardi__: and they've charged card.
Nov 23 19:47:51 <timeless_mbp> 'exchange'?
Nov 23 19:47:56 <xorAxAx> switch
Nov 23 19:47:58 <timeless_mbp> sure you walk to your operator and ask for a replacement
Nov 23 19:47:59 <mardi__> just quidco and only a week ago
Nov 23 19:48:19 <mardi__> sounds good for you if they have hit your card SpeedEvil
Nov 23 19:48:40 <SpeedEvil> mardi__: ordered 20th Oct. with 3* money off codes, through quidco.
Nov 23 19:49:41 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: so, do you know of anyone who has written an STK host for linux?
Nov 23 19:49:44 <SpeedEvil> err - topcasback
Nov 23 19:49:52 <xorAxAx> timeless_mbp: no
Nov 23 19:50:11 <hrw> can someone remind me - how many people got DDP offer?
Nov 23 19:50:19 <Stskeeps> everyone with >= 200 karma
Nov 23 19:50:29 <timeless_mbp> hrw: so, i'm confused
Nov 23 19:50:32 <timeless_mbp> i have this thing
Nov 23 19:50:37 <timeless_mbp> where's the scratchbox?
Nov 23 19:50:39 <hrw> Stskeeps: 100? 200? 300 people?
Nov 23 19:50:47 <xorAxAx> Stskeeps: which karma?
Nov 23 19:50:51 <hrw> timeless_mbp: I am wrong person to ask about maemo sdk
Nov 23 19:50:53 <Stskeeps> maemo.org karma
Nov 23 19:51:36 <timeless_mbp> http://maemo.org/profile/list/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nehmer_account_list_page=7
Nov 23 19:51:47 <timeless_mbp> shows where 200 karma ends today
Nov 23 19:51:51 <timeless_mbp> but the cutoff was some other day
Nov 23 19:52:08 <javispedro> wow
Nov 23 19:52:12 <javispedro> it's growing fast.
Nov 23 19:52:26 <RST38h> ohmygod
Nov 23 19:52:34 <RST38h> pupnik and rm_you have not made it!
Nov 23 19:52:49 <timeless_mbp> it'd be roughly 200 if it were today
Nov 23 19:53:00 <timeless_mbp> i presume Nokians weren't offered DDP
Nov 23 19:53:05 <javispedro> pupnik got loan though
Nov 23 19:53:32 <RST38h> revdkathy actually leads pupnik!
Nov 23 19:53:32 <timeless_mbp> amusingly enough jaaksi has karma 200
Nov 23 19:53:35 <GeneralAntilles> hrw, in the vicinity of 180.
Nov 23 19:53:35 <slonopotamus> does t.m.o work at all?
Nov 23 19:53:54 * RST38h takes out a checkered flag and chants "go, pupnik, go"
Nov 23 19:54:06 <javispedro> no, it has been slashdotted to hell with hordes of people wanting to refresh "has it shipped yet" thread.
Nov 23 19:54:13 <VDVsx> http://blogs.computerworld.com/15136/apple_voids_applecare_warranty_for_smokers  ->>
Nov 23 19:54:17 <VDVsx> hhiih
Nov 23 19:54:32 <VDVsx> great excuse :)
Nov 23 19:54:48 <slonopotamus> javispedro, argh. i want to read my private message.
Nov 23 19:54:52 <derf> Well, you've got to expect that people will karma whore after you make a DDP based solely on karma.
Nov 23 19:55:08 <javispedro> slonopotamus: be thanful you got the email copy of it ;)
Nov 23 19:55:15 <RST38h> derf: no shit
Nov 23 19:55:17 <javispedro> hm... where's my spell checker gone?
Nov 23 19:55:34 <RST38h> VDVsx: has been circulating for a couple of days now
Nov 23 19:55:44 <derf> So yeah, I'd be very surprised if that list hadn't grown substantially.
Nov 23 19:55:47 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, I've repaired machines used by smokers. It's often an unpleasant experience, but easily solved by something as simple as a cloth rag wrapped around your face. ;)
Nov 23 19:56:08 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, ugh
Nov 23 19:56:23 <RST38h> General: Is it possible to make smokers wrap cloth around their faces instead?
Nov 23 19:56:33 <Proteous> I've had to do that too. super nasty stuff
Nov 23 19:56:38 <RST38h> I mean, with legislation?
Nov 23 19:57:05 <Proteous> mKes you sick when you wonder what the smokers lungs must look like
Nov 23 19:57:08 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, yes, let's hope it doesn't go that far, though. ;)
Nov 23 19:57:13 <derf> I'm sure someone would argue that violates one of those pesky Bill of Rights amendments.
Nov 23 19:57:21 <RST38h> fire hazard, yes
Nov 23 19:57:24 <GeneralAntilles> Proteous, I had a coworker who'd smoked a packa a day for 40 years.
Nov 23 19:57:42 <GeneralAntilles> Used to cough up little tar balls every few weeks.
Nov 23 19:58:04 <RST38h> derf: Bill of rights does not explicitely mention smokers, I think =)
Nov 23 19:58:15 <timeless_mbp> ok
Nov 23 19:58:23 <derf> RST38h: Probably the "cruel and unusual" clause.
Nov 23 19:58:23 <timeless_mbp> according to my math, there are 20 nokians in the top 200
Nov 23 19:58:27 <timeless_mbp> so 10% :)
Nov 23 19:58:29 <javispedro> btw, I was wondering. will anyone from Nokia/maemo.org be in BCN airport on friday 4 and guide everybody, will everybody go on their own... ?
Nov 23 19:58:31 <RST38h> derf: Oh, true
Nov 23 19:58:42 <javispedro> how does that usually go?
Nov 23 19:58:48 <VDVsx> timeless_mbp, they are karma whores :)
Nov 23 19:58:50 * VDVsx hides
Nov 23 19:58:55 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, that reminds me, I still need to figure out where I'm staying Sunday night. . . .
Nov 23 19:58:59 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: http://maemo.org/profile/list/category/bugzilla_reported/
Nov 23 19:59:03 <Stskeeps> javispedro: standard pattern is that some groups of people meet up and then go into the wild themselves
Nov 23 19:59:18 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, yeah, noticed.
Nov 23 19:59:25 <javispedro> ah, interesting.
Nov 23 19:59:30 <timeless_mbp> i'm not trying very hard
Nov 23 19:59:33 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, I need to go do a few more rounds of Extras-testing Testing. ;)
Nov 23 19:59:43 <RST38h> which reminds me: Maemo meetup tomorrow at 19:30
Nov 23 19:59:44 <VDVsx> javispedro, most of us will be at the hotel on Friday
Nov 23 19:59:45 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: i want to get ukeyboard into bugzilla
Nov 23 19:59:48 <timeless_mbp> so i can file bugs :)
Nov 23 19:59:58 * javispedro was planning to be here on airport and do something useful someday  :)
Nov 23 20:00:22 <VDVsx> javispedro, you can meet us that the hotel
Nov 23 20:00:23 <zaheerm> javispedro, i can help you but i land really late
Nov 23 20:00:35 <zaheerm> javispedro, i lived in barcelona for 18 months
Nov 23 20:00:38 <javispedro> zaheerm: I was thinking the opposite, I am a local
Nov 23 20:00:45 <zaheerm> aaah :)
Nov 23 20:01:01 * GeneralAntilles is getting in at 7:45 Friday morning.
Nov 23 20:01:01 <zaheerm> i am semi-local but never set foot in cornella
Nov 23 20:01:14 <javispedro> i plan to go there this weekend and get a feel of the area
Nov 23 20:02:12 <zaheerm> derf, i heard people got the theora dsp stuff working on their n900 devices, you heard anything of any packages created for fremantle?
Nov 23 20:04:45 <pwnguin> anyone set up their own Mozilla weave server?
Nov 23 20:04:47 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: so... i'm planning to call Mexico City shortly :)
Nov 23 20:05:37 <Shapeshifter> Guys, is there a hildonized theme for Qt in the repos? Or any other way to enable such a theme? There's no qtconfig apparently.
Nov 23 20:06:21 <derf> zaheerm: No, I haven't.
Nov 23 20:07:59 <Hrww> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/11/23/ddp-does-it-has-any-sense/
Nov 23 20:08:49 <RST38h> no, it makes no sense
Nov 23 20:08:56 <RST38h> but we knew that already
Nov 23 20:09:53 <frals> pwnguin: yeah i did, used the minimal one
Nov 23 20:09:55 <timeless_mbp> so...
Nov 23 20:10:15 <GeneralAntilles> Hrww, the obviousness of your conclusions leads me to believe you're karma whoring. *g*
Nov 23 20:10:24 <pwnguin> frals: still using it?
Nov 23 20:10:32 <frals> yeah
Nov 23 20:11:11 <pwnguin> frals: got it working with fennec?
Nov 23 20:11:35 <frals> not tried :o
Nov 23 20:12:30 <pwnguin> im wondering if there's a huge versioning problem given it's all in beta
Nov 23 20:12:50 <timeless_mbp> pwnguin: i'd hope not
Nov 23 20:13:00 <timeless_mbp> but irc.mozilla.org #weave should be the place to ask
Nov 23 20:13:10 <pwnguin> timeless_mbp: well, the standalone is more of a development testing server
Nov 23 20:13:20 <timeless_mbp> so?
Nov 23 20:13:29 <timeless_mbp> you don't think they'll support you?
Nov 23 20:13:55 <pwnguin> i think they might not have a consistent set of compatible versions, or if they do, it's a rapidly moving target
Nov 23 20:14:02 <frals> im syncing my firefox on laptop/workstation fine anyway, read something about their google group about problems with fennec but seemed resolved in the nightly builds
Nov 23 20:14:06 <derf> "Previous developer programs were better at handling users" <- Hahahahaha.
Nov 23 20:14:32 <xorAxAx> does the n900 have a stopwatch and alarms?
Nov 23 20:14:49 <RST38h> derf: they have no idea, have they?
Nov 23 20:14:50 <Juzna> err
Nov 23 20:14:57 <julianoliver> Maemo 5 (as seen on my new N900) is great. it looks and plays well. congrats all. i will be targeting this OS with my own projects.
Nov 23 20:15:01 * RST38h remembers ordering via NokiaUSA
Nov 23 20:15:12 <Stskeeps> julianoliver: cool :) welcome in the ecosystem
Nov 23 20:15:15 <Juzna> julianoliver: have you made smtp over ssl work?
Nov 23 20:15:19 <derf> How many months after release were the DDP N810's shipped?
Nov 23 20:16:20 <RST38h> 4-5
Nov 23 20:16:32 <hrw> nice
Nov 23 20:16:35 <ali1234> has there really only ever been 6303 bugs (highest bug on buzilla) reported on maemo?
Nov 23 20:16:49 <hrw> how many people got n810 though ddp?
Nov 23 20:16:58 <derf> At least for the N800, when I called NokiaUSA and they had no idea what I was talking about, after about an hour I got a manager to approve the order anyway.
Nov 23 20:17:04 <derf> For the N810 they just flat-out refused.
Nov 23 20:17:05 <julianoliver> Juzna: no, but i may be trying. typically though i send mail over an ssh tunnel.
Nov 23 20:17:10 <RST38h> hrw: was not done through ddp, but was still complete mess
Nov 23 20:17:14 <wazd> ~seen fiferboy
Nov 23 20:17:18 <infobot> fiferboy <n=fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10d 1h 47m 22s ago, saying: 'If qwerty12 doesn't know it, it can't be known'.
Nov 23 20:17:24 <wazd> eeek
Nov 23 20:17:26 <xorAxAx> does the n900 have a stopwatch and alarms?
Nov 23 20:17:28 <lcuk> general q, when you restore from a backup, does it just get the latest version of apps listed or does it specifically look for the installed version
Nov 23 20:17:40 <julianoliver> Stskeeps: pleased to see great centralised API documentation also.
Nov 23 20:17:47 * julianoliver rubs hands
Nov 23 20:17:51 <PaulFertser> Just FYI. An external cardreader asked for probably its maximum current and n810 refused to power it up at all. I just made the kernel think that it can provide more and the cardreader works.
Nov 23 20:17:55 <Firebird> Hm, talk.maemo getting stomped with traffic? or is my end just slow
Nov 23 20:18:02 <hrw> julianoliver: used scratchbox before?
Nov 23 20:18:13 <julianoliver> Firebird: slow from here (Berlin/DE) also
Nov 23 20:18:16 <julianoliver> hrw: no i haven't
Nov 23 20:18:22 <xorAxAx> Firebird: thats people who want to increase their karma for the n910 DDP
Nov 23 20:18:22 <hrw> Firebird: no, t.m.o. just returned to normal speed (sluggish)
Nov 23 20:18:46 <hrw> julianoliver: prepare for screaming and cursing
Nov 23 20:18:50 <Firebird> xorAxAx, ?
Nov 23 20:20:02 <julianoliver> hrw: hehe ok
Nov 23 20:20:18 <julianoliver> i'll brace myself. as long as it isn't the purgatory of Symbian..
Nov 23 20:20:39 <hrw> julianoliver: one suggestion from me: do not install it in your system but use maemosdk virtualization image
Nov 23 20:20:54 <Flandry> if there's a bright center of coherence, it as the point farthest from
Nov 23 20:21:00 <Flandry> is
Nov 23 20:21:18 <julianoliver> hrw: ok, this is how i intended to work anyway..
Nov 23 20:21:32 <Flandry> yeah don't install it on main system, it really borked mine
Nov 23 20:21:37 <timeless_mbp> so...
Nov 23 20:21:38 <xorAxAx> hmm, there doesnt seem to be an alarm app for the n900. is there really no way to get alarms?
Nov 23 20:21:47 <timeless_mbp> i'm still confused about the sdk downlaods
Nov 23 20:21:47 <julianoliver> initially though i think i'll just try to compile right on the device over SSH (IDE Vim)
Nov 23 20:21:50 <lcuk> xorAxAx, click the clock
Nov 23 20:21:52 <timeless_mbp> s/laods/loads/
Nov 23 20:21:53 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: i'm still confused about the sdk downloads
Nov 23 20:21:55 <lcuk> and set as many alarms as you like
Nov 23 20:21:58 <timeless_mbp> i downloaded something that had sdk in the name
Nov 23 20:21:59 <xorAxAx> lcuk: ok, thanks :)
Nov 23 20:21:59 <lcuk> the ui is amazing
Nov 23 20:22:05 <timeless_mbp> but i can't find scratchbox
Nov 23 20:22:13 <xorAxAx> lcuk: does the clock app also do stopwatch?
Nov 23 20:22:14 <lcuk> it recalls all old alarms and can be reticked at any time
Nov 23 20:22:25 <lcuk> no stopwatch that ive found so far
Nov 23 20:22:37 <julianoliver> lcuk: would be a good app in itself..
Nov 23 20:22:37 <xorAxAx> lcuk: thats bad :-/
Nov 23 20:22:41 * lcuk really likes the alarms ui
Nov 23 20:22:48 * julianoliver does also
Nov 23 20:22:57 <lcuk> yes, a simple stopwatch app :)
Nov 23 20:23:31 <hrw> lcuk: run it in other resolution then 800x480 and then it stops looking good
Nov 23 20:23:35 <lcuk> these things tend to have feature creep, one day its a stop watch, the next its an egg timer and chess clock
Nov 23 20:23:47 <lcuk> hrw it runs in other resolutions anywa
Nov 23 20:23:51 <xorAxAx> i mainly need it for debating :)
Nov 23 20:23:55 <lcuk> what do you think happens when you zoom to the dashboard
Nov 23 20:24:02 <xorAxAx> we have 7 min. limits on the speeches
Nov 23 20:24:03 <lcuk> and it looks fine
Nov 23 20:24:12 <Flandry> how many resolutions does your n900 run at, anyway? oO
Nov 23 20:24:13 <lcuk> apart from the bug about it not refreshing i see no problems with it
Nov 23 20:24:23 <lcuk> its part of the best looking gtk this side of pluto
Nov 23 20:24:25 <hrw> lcuk: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic10.jpg
Nov 23 20:24:30 <lcuk> Flandry, that wasnt resolutions
Nov 23 20:24:44 <lcuk> that was scaling the whole 800*480 down to see it in the thumbnails
Nov 23 20:25:05 <lcuk> ooooh hrw, that looks even more special over my vnc
Nov 23 20:25:08 <lcuk> which is 256color lol
Nov 23 20:25:34 <Flandry> was directed at hrw but i see the scenarios now
Nov 23 20:25:34 <lcuk> so the background layer is resolution dependent
Nov 23 20:25:46 <hrw> lcuk: yep
Nov 23 20:25:47 * timeless_mbp looks for someone who is on the inside of the great nokia firewall
Nov 23 20:25:55 <hrw> Flandry: my n900? I do not have such one
Nov 23 20:26:13 <hrw> Flandry: and looking at DDP it looks like I will not have in this year
Nov 23 20:26:23 <Anpr> hello guys :)
Nov 23 20:26:35 <Flandry> well just wondering why you care about other res than the only one on n900, that's all :D
Nov 23 20:26:48 <Flandry> too bad about the DDP
Nov 23 20:27:03 * lcuk can run liqbase at 400*240
Nov 23 20:27:07 <lcuk> or infact any other res
Nov 23 20:27:16 <lcuk> o_O i avent tried higher on this device
Nov 23 20:27:17 <Flandry> meh
Nov 23 20:27:25 * lcuk checks
Nov 23 20:27:28 <hrw> Flandry: maemosdk can be run at any resolution
Nov 23 20:27:47 <hrw> Flandry: and  I wonder how many people will run maemo5 on touchbook :D
Nov 23 20:27:55 <Flandry> hmm
Nov 23 20:28:06 <andre__> sigh, Nokia. "Meamo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_0_en.txt". yeah, with typo
Nov 23 20:28:21 <Flandry> haha
Nov 23 20:28:43 * Flandry trademarks Meamo and sues Nokia
Nov 23 20:28:57 <javispedro> Me aaaaamoooooo
Nov 23 20:29:07 <Flandry> awesome
Nov 23 20:29:13 <Flandry> finally an OS that loves me
Nov 23 20:29:21 <Flandry> or itself
Nov 23 20:29:24 <Flandry> man i'm so confused
Nov 23 20:30:06 <hrw> Flandry: but maemosdk shows that 800x480 is hardcoded in some apps
Nov 23 20:30:19 <hrw> bye
Nov 23 20:30:22 <javispedro> it is.
Nov 23 20:30:36 <Flandry> also, step 5 will be same hardware res
Nov 23 20:30:38 <javispedro> it's been hardcoded in some apps since, forever.
Nov 23 20:31:12 <hrw> and I wonder how many years will take maemo5 to get usable applauncher instead of that crap which is present now
Nov 23 20:31:20 <hrw> qwerty12_N900: downgrade?
Nov 23 20:31:33 <Flandry> he's back from the future
Nov 23 20:31:58 <qwerty12_N900> Heh
Nov 23 20:32:23 <RST38h> hrw: It really does not take that long
Nov 23 20:32:54 <RST38h> hrw: But taking most UX people to the landfill feels like a necessary prerequisite
Nov 23 20:33:14 <hrw> RST38h: maemo4 did not got too many UI changes during it's life.
Nov 23 20:33:22 <Shapeshifter> hrw: we'll just "port" gmrun?
Nov 23 20:33:29 <hrw> RST38h: I do not expect seeing UI changes in maemo5
Nov 23 20:33:43 <javispedro> maemo1-4 got UI changes?
Nov 23 20:33:57 * RST38h has no idea why Maemo4 UI has not been considered good enough
Nov 23 20:34:03 <RST38h> Although it is less flashy, true
Nov 23 20:34:10 <javispedro> flashy!
Nov 23 20:34:39 <javispedro> basically, in this day and age, a big black shiny button on the phone with a "Don't panic" caption is enough to win the Phone maker's Nobel Prize.
Nov 23 20:34:49 <javispedro> end of user interface :)
Nov 23 20:34:59 <lcuk> capital P please
Nov 23 20:35:00 <lcuk> its important!
Nov 23 20:35:16 <RST38h> javis: you forgot shiny =)
Nov 23 20:35:19 <lcuk> and the color needs changing from black to slate
Nov 23 20:35:24 <hrw> bye
Nov 23 20:35:35 <RST38h> lcuk: go for all capitals, in bloody red: DON'T PANIC
Nov 23 20:35:54 <javispedro> :)
Nov 23 20:35:55 <lcuk> we will have to let timeless do the translations
Nov 23 20:36:01 <lcuk> so it doesnt really matter what
Nov 23 20:36:35 <RST38h> And it MUST have Twitter client
Nov 23 20:36:40 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 23 20:36:51 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: an update translation should come out w/in 6hrs
Nov 23 20:36:52 <RST38h> Everything must have a twitter client nowadays
Nov 23 20:37:09 <lcuk> lo
Nov 23 20:37:10 <lcuk> l
Nov 23 20:37:45 <jaska> twitter client? never saw the point in that service/site
Nov 23 20:37:59 <lcuk> irc for web2.0
Nov 23 20:38:00 <mavhc> twitter is interactive rss
Nov 23 20:38:14 <lcuk> or the backend db for it at least
Nov 23 20:38:21 <RST38h> jaska: Why? You can have a toilet with a twitter client so that it twits "Taking a shit, 5:47pm" every time you visit it
Nov 23 20:38:36 <RST38h> jaska: Isn't it mighty cool? Isn't it? Web 2.0 duuuuude!
Nov 23 20:38:48 <mavhc> RST38h: that's as quaint as saying everyone's blog is about their cat
Nov 23 20:38:49 <jaska> make the toilet send messages when its flushed?
Nov 23 20:39:07 <jaska> blahblahs_toilet: flushed 1231g of fecal matter
Nov 23 20:39:11 <RST38h> mavhc: What if someone does not have a cat?
Nov 23 20:39:15 <lcuk> RT: @toilet flushing, extra power.
Nov 23 20:39:54 <Shapeshifter> mhh, when trying to install xterm in the SDK I get: xterm: Depends: xbitmaps but it is not installable
Nov 23 20:39:54 <lcuk> it needs hashtags
Nov 23 20:39:59 <mavhc> then why would they have a blog? I don't understand!
Nov 23 20:40:09 <lcuk> its a bog
Nov 23 20:40:33 <hotaru2k3> twitter is like like reading everything that gets sent to /dev/null
Nov 23 20:41:09 <mavhc> follow more interesting people then, duh
Nov 23 20:41:36 <RST38h> mavhc: not on twitter though
Nov 23 20:41:53 <RST38h> Mer autobuilder is about the most interesting "blog" you can follow on Twitter
Nov 23 20:42:06 <lcuk> i think this is the best twitter account http://twitter.com/Big_ben_clock
Nov 23 20:42:49 <sjaensch> lol
Nov 23 20:43:39 <Stskeeps> RST38h: we have a autobuilder twitter?
Nov 23 20:43:53 * Shapeshifter <3 maemo
Nov 23 20:44:03 <Stskeeps> we used to, obviously.
Nov 23 20:44:12 <qwerty12_N900> Stskeeps: Maybe that old ass Jaiku. (Which, BTW, was more fun than OBS)
Nov 23 20:44:27 <Stskeeps> yeah, it was fun..
Nov 23 20:44:27 <Xisdibik> qwerty12_N900: your making me sad
Nov 23 20:44:27 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 23 20:44:58 <RST38h> Sts: Well, someone had
Nov 23 20:45:07 <RST38h> Sts: I think it was Mer, wasn't it?
Nov 23 20:45:08 <qwerty12> Xisdibik: Why? ;P
Nov 23 20:45:34 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 23 20:47:17 <Xisdibik> qwerty12: your other name ;)
Nov 23 20:47:20 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 23 20:47:24 * timeless_mbp wants to kick something
Nov 23 20:47:40 <qwerty12> Xisdibik: qwerty12_N800? qwerty12_N810?
Nov 23 20:47:54 * Xisdibik hands timeless_mbp Amazon.com
Nov 23 20:47:58 <qwerty12> timeless_mbp: Tweet it
Nov 23 20:48:05 <timeless_mbp> Xisdibik: is it near mexico city?
Nov 23 20:48:13 <Xisdibik> qwerty12: the one you were using just a moment ago ;)
Nov 23 20:48:27 <Xisdibik> timeless_mbp: no its not unfortauntely :(
Nov 23 20:48:39 <qwerty12> Xisdibik: I haven't a clue what you're talking about. *whistles*
Nov 23 20:48:45 <timeless_mbp> Xisdibik: are you near mexico city?
Nov 23 20:49:07 <Xisdibik> qwerty12: :(
Nov 23 20:49:15 <Xisdibik> timeless_mbp: depends what you define near as ;)
Nov 23 20:49:24 <timeless_mbp> willing to go on a field trip to
Nov 23 20:49:25 <timeless_mbp> :)
Nov 23 20:49:32 <timeless_mbp> what other definition is there? :)
Nov 23 20:50:15 <Xisdibik> haha, not sure,  i mean theres some cities "near" me, but i wouldnt want to take a field trip to it
Nov 23 20:50:20 <Xisdibik> Stockton being a great example
Nov 23 20:50:31 <qwerty12> timeless_mbp: Did you ever file bugs against gtk20-l10n?
Nov 23 20:50:45 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12: you mean for having en-gb as the translation for en-us?
Nov 23 20:50:48 <timeless_mbp> or ... ?
Nov 23 20:51:23 <qwerty12> timeless: This package: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/non-free/g/gtk20-l10n/ . I saw its changelog and an entry made me think of you
Nov 23 20:51:39 * timeless_mbp ponders
Nov 23 20:52:57 <qwerty12> timeless_mbp: http://pastebin.com/d77c352a5
Nov 23 20:55:27 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 23 20:55:33 * timeless_mbp ponders
Nov 23 20:55:39 <timeless_mbp> that could be me
Nov 23 20:55:53 * timeless_mbp wonders how the heck to check
Nov 23 20:55:59 <timeless_mbp> not exactly the most descriptive of messages
Nov 23 20:57:42 * lcuk giggles.
Nov 23 20:57:45 <RST38h> http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/11/freezephone.jpg
Nov 23 20:57:51 <timeless_mbp> woohoo
Nov 23 20:58:00 <timeless_mbp> i sent an email to 3 people @nokia-mexico-city yesterday
Nov 23 20:58:04 <timeless_mbp> and i just got a reply from one of htem
Nov 23 20:58:07 <timeless_mbp> s/htem/them/
Nov 23 20:58:07 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: and i just got a reply from one of them
Nov 23 20:59:12 <timeless_mbp> there's only one bug against gtk20-l10n
Nov 23 20:59:22 <timeless_mbp> it's an import of bug 4044
Nov 23 20:59:23 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4044 en-US gtk localization file is en-GB
Nov 23 21:00:26 <andre__> RST38h, I once used my N810 at -15 degrees Celsius and it was just damn slow
Nov 23 21:00:44 <jerhum> hello
Nov 23 21:00:49 <RST38h> andre: should actually be pretty fast as long as battery holds out
Nov 23 21:00:54 <RST38h> weird
Nov 23 21:01:01 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12: you're free to file a bug complaining that the changelog was politically incorrect ;-)
Nov 23 21:01:10 <jerhum> nice day i've received my n900 :)
Nov 23 21:01:33 <Stskeeps> jerhum: welcome :)
Nov 23 21:01:43 * RST38h left his wristwatch at the sun once for 15 minutes, and the LCD went completely black
Nov 23 21:02:06 <jerhum> but i doesn't found how to browse smb share ?
Nov 23 21:02:25 <Stskeeps> jerhum: maemo5.0 does not support that
Nov 23 21:02:31 <qwerty12> timeless_mbp: Hehe, bugs aren't my thing. I may provide shitty patches for some, but that's as far as my involvement goes
Nov 23 21:02:35 <Stskeeps> you'll need a third party thing for it
Nov 23 21:02:45 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12: someday ... we'll fix that :)
Nov 23 21:02:58 <timeless_mbp> so um
Nov 23 21:02:58 <xorAxAx> is there java for maemo 5?
Nov 23 21:03:04 <Stskeeps> jerhum: that said, it's a matter of making a kernel module for it or interface to smbclient or the likes
Nov 23 21:03:10 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: not preinstalled
Nov 23 21:03:18 <timeless_mbp> if java is open source, you're welcome to port it
Nov 23 21:03:24 <luke-jr> lol
Nov 23 21:03:28 <timeless_mbp> or you could find someone / some project which already exists (e.g. jalimo)
Nov 23 21:03:45 <timeless_mbp> heck, if it's closed source, you're welcome to license it and pay someone to port it :)
Nov 23 21:04:04 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: why can't he pay someone to port it if it's open?
Nov 23 21:04:14 <ShadowJK> heh
Nov 23 21:04:20 <timeless_mbp> or that!
Nov 23 21:04:24 <javispedro> or why he can't license it and port it himself?
Nov 23 21:04:24 <timeless_mbp> so many choices!
Nov 23 21:04:35 <timeless_mbp> or that!
Nov 23 21:04:58 <ShadowJK> Sun has a binary you can download freeofcharge for "development" purposes
Nov 23 21:05:09 <xorAxAx> why wasnt it ported yet? :)
Nov 23 21:05:16 <luke-jr> why can't Nokia give him the hardware schematics so he can embed a Java CPU himself?
Nov 23 21:05:20 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: i'm not sure i actually said that
Nov 23 21:05:24 <luke-jr> xorAxAx: cuz nobody cares about Java?
Nov 23 21:05:45 <xorAxAx> timeless_mbp: the website is slow so i cant check :)
Nov 23 21:05:49 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, the CPU has a java mode actually...
Nov 23 21:05:51 <timeless_mbp> 'the website'?
Nov 23 21:05:54 <qwerty12> luke-jr: Wow, I'd never thought I'd find myself agreeing with you on a point
Nov 23 21:05:55 <xorAxAx> maemo.org
Nov 23 21:05:56 <ShadowJK> not that anyone uses it :)
Nov 23 21:05:57 <timeless_mbp> a java vm + class library is not exactly tiny
Nov 23 21:06:04 <ali1234> luke-jr: omap3 already has jazelle support
Nov 23 21:06:08 <luke-jr> qwerty12: which point?
Nov 23 21:06:16 <luke-jr> ali1234: Jazelle is not a complete Java implementation
Nov 23 21:06:23 <RST38h> OMAP3 has "trivial" Jazelle support
Nov 23 21:06:27 <mavhc> the problem is mobile java isn't free
Nov 23 21:06:30 <javispedro> RST38h++
Nov 23 21:06:31 <RST38h> I.e. it does not really support Jazelle
Nov 23 21:06:36 <ali1234> ShadowJK: nobody uses it because arm won't tell anyone how it works
Nov 23 21:06:40 <RST38h> Has got a dummy BJ instruction
Nov 23 21:06:53 <mavhc> jazelle is only hardware for some java stuff, not all of it
Nov 23 21:06:59 <javispedro> ali1234: nobody uses it because it's not worth it.
Nov 23 21:07:15 <timeless_mbp> the only really cool flavor of that was Crusoe
Nov 23 21:07:18 <timeless_mbp> too bad it didn't win
Nov 23 21:07:30 <luke-jr> Transmeta's chip?
Nov 23 21:07:34 <timeless_mbp> yep
Nov 23 21:07:37 <ShadowJK> and crusoe was supposedly "only" "microcode on steroids"
Nov 23 21:07:42 <xorAxAx> hmm, does jalimo support j2me apps?
Nov 23 21:07:55 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: since none of us actually deal in java
Nov 23 21:08:06 <timeless_mbp> asking here is really unlikely to get you anything resembling useful responses
Nov 23 21:08:06 <javispedro> Jalimo is quite a big project and one of their ports should support j2me apps.
Nov 23 21:08:18 <xorAxAx> timeless_mbp: there are many good people here ;-)
Nov 23 21:08:23 <javispedro> note though that a) I've not tried it b) It's not fremantle-ready
Nov 23 21:08:29 <luke-jr> xorAxAx: and good people don't use Java
Nov 23 21:08:29 <timeless_mbp> (i'm speaking as someone who in a past life actually did work on a java port)
Nov 23 21:08:38 <ShadowJK> the intersection of people who deal/are interested in java, and people who could make it build in sb, is approximately 0
Nov 23 21:08:45 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: my condolences
Nov 23 21:08:47 * RST38h knows enough details about Crusoe to avoid using "cool" in the same sentence
Nov 23 21:08:56 <timeless_mbp> (not as a major dev, but i was involved [mostly java to mozilla bridge work]
Nov 23 21:09:02 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: hey, it was a summer job
Nov 23 21:09:30 <timeless_mbp> the guys who did the serious work were actually quite cool
Nov 23 21:09:50 * RST38h works with these guys like right now
Nov 23 21:09:51 <timeless_mbp> (this was probably 2000)
Nov 23 21:10:15 <timeless_mbp> in a life before that, i actually dabbled w/ netbeans :)
Nov 23 21:10:18 <xorAxAx> luke-jr: yes, they use python, i know :)
Nov 23 21:10:21 <timeless_mbp> (when it was forte for java)
Nov 23 21:10:24 <derf> I've actually done Java development since 1996 or so.
Nov 23 21:10:41 <derf> I just have no interest in seeing it on these devices.
Nov 23 21:10:43 <luke-jr> xorAxAx: no wai! Perl ftw
Nov 23 21:10:44 <timeless_mbp> derf: commercial, or as a student? :)
Nov 23 21:10:51 <derf> timeless_mbp: As a student, then commercial.
Nov 23 21:11:01 <timeless_mbp> derf: i was playing w/ java around 96
Nov 23 21:11:15 <timeless_mbp> (in high school)
Nov 23 21:11:18 <xorAxAx> luke-jr: perl is useful to make urandom executable but not as a language :)
Nov 23 21:11:20 <derf> I still remember downloading 1.0.1 and having it break all my for loops because they changed the scoping rules.
Nov 23 21:11:33 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 23 21:12:01 <ShadowJK> I remember 1.3 was the last one where IBM had a fast jre
Nov 23 21:12:07 <timeless_mbp> i remember having fun dealing w/ differences between 1.0.x, 1.1.x, and 1.2.x
Nov 23 21:12:10 <timeless_mbp> and i remember jikes
Nov 23 21:12:30 <timeless_mbp> oh and i remember when hotspot was introduced :)
Nov 23 21:12:33 <derf> After getting bit by g++ changing them also, earlier that year, I stopped declaring variables in the for preamble, ever.
Nov 23 21:12:43 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 23 21:12:43 <xorAxAx> luke-jr: just look at pypy, who would manage to write a perl interpreter and compiler in perl itself?
Nov 23 21:13:06 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: um
Nov 23 21:13:08 <luke-jr> xorAxAx: I'm sure it's been done.
Nov 23 21:13:12 <timeless_mbp> iirc perl mostly self hosts
Nov 23 21:13:15 <luke-jr> parsing is Perl's strength
Nov 23 21:13:25 <xorAxAx> timeless_mbp: isnt it written in C?
Nov 23 21:13:25 <derf> timeless_mbp: Thanks to browsers, I _still_ have to support code running in 1.1.x.
Nov 23 21:13:36 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: oh some of perl is C
Nov 23 21:13:44 <timeless_mbp> but ..
Nov 23 21:13:52 <derf> It turns out Sun's compiler can't even produce code that will run on the original VMs any longer.
Nov 23 21:14:01 <javispedro> I'm sure someone could actually parse and interpret a subset of Perl in less than 80 chars worth of Perl =)
Nov 23 21:14:12 <derf> Despite the supposed compatibility options.
Nov 23 21:14:16 <luke-jr> javispedro: I doubt it, as Perl is actually non-parsable.
Nov 23 21:14:33 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr: for a very limited set of statements :)
Nov 23 21:14:34 <luke-jr> javispedro: code can mean entirely different things based on modules loaded
Nov 23 21:14:38 <xorAxAx> i claim that a parser of perl in perl would be unmaintanable
Nov 23 21:15:00 <javispedro> luke-jr: what, does perl support override of "braces" or other token's meaning?
Nov 23 21:15:12 <luke-jr> javispedro: yes
Nov 23 21:15:26 <ShadowJK> the trouble with python is that it's source code doubles as its language definition
Nov 23 21:15:46 <xorAxAx> ShadowJK: i dont understand
Nov 23 21:16:10 <timeless_mbp> effectively it isn't a standard
Nov 23 21:16:17 <timeless_mbp> it's an implementation which is the rule
Nov 23 21:16:21 <luke-jr> javispedro: for example, the Lingua::Romana::Perligata module replaces braces with 'sic' and 'cis' keywords
Nov 23 21:16:30 <timeless_mbp> if there's a bug in the implementtion
Nov 23 21:16:42 <timeless_mbp> then that's the rule
Nov 23 21:17:23 * andre__ has his first WTF experience with Nokia's emergency call function in device lock
Nov 23 21:17:38 <Xisdibik> andre__: what happend?
Nov 23 21:17:43 <zaheerm> please test zoutube from extra-testing guys and vote on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/zoutube/0.1-18/
Nov 23 21:17:52 <luke-jr> javispedro: http://pastebin.ca/1684240
Nov 23 21:18:04 <Stskeeps> andre__: your code starts with 112?
Nov 23 21:18:09 <andre__> :-D
Nov 23 21:18:18 <Xisdibik> Stskeeps: 112???
Nov 23 21:18:24 <ShadowJK> emergency call
Nov 23 21:18:28 <zaheerm> 112 is european emergency number
Nov 23 21:18:29 <andre__> in Yurop it's 112
Nov 23 21:18:32 <Stskeeps> oh dear
Nov 23 21:18:36 <Stskeeps> TMO's being DDoSed
Nov 23 21:18:51 <ShadowJK> ... and nothing of value was lost ;)
Nov 23 21:18:52 <qwerty12> Xisdibik: Yeah, you can shove your lousy 911!
Nov 23 21:18:53 <javispedro> luke-jr: so it's just replacing the tokenizer. not impossible to parse then.
Nov 23 21:18:57 <andre__> yeah. it's awesome. and only because of the UK thread! we should block all UK IPs! ;-)
Nov 23 21:19:02 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Really?
Nov 23 21:19:09 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Not by Googlebot I hope? :)
Nov 23 21:19:14 <Stskeeps> RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34951&page=2
Nov 23 21:19:14 * qwerty12 stares at andre__ 
Nov 23 21:19:19 <luke-jr> javispedro: you'd need to execute the module's code to go on
Nov 23 21:19:25 <Xisdibik> qwerty12: dont make me fly over there and take your N900! :P  cuz you know i will do it!
Nov 23 21:19:44 <qwerty12> Xisdibik: I dare you! :p
Nov 23 21:19:50 <andre__> qwerty12: don't make such eyes at me, sigh... :-P
Nov 23 21:19:55 <javispedro> exactly, but I said an interpreter.
Nov 23 21:20:17 <qwerty12> andre__: Aww... :( :p
Nov 23 21:20:46 <type_t2> hola.
Nov 23 21:20:56 <javispedro> hallo.
Nov 23 21:21:49 <RST38h> Stskeeps: I am for the martial law =)
Nov 23 21:22:03 <RST38h> (followed by regular exe^H^H^Hsacrifice)
Nov 23 21:22:04 <andre__> yay, ddos... apple! google! microsoft! conspiracy! I should go trolling in the talk forum...
Nov 23 21:22:04 <Xisdibik> qwerty12: I decided you can keep your n900, its for the betterment of the maemo community ;)
Nov 23 21:22:08 <javispedro> luke-jr: sorry, you're right, I was understimating Perl's weird abilities.
Nov 23 21:22:15 <type_t2> so whos messing with the any SDK rootstrap for cross development?
Nov 23 21:22:46 <qwerty12> Xisdibik: Couldn't find the UK?
Nov 23 21:23:40 <Xisdibik> qwerty12: ive been to the UK 3 times, almost moved there permantently one of them :P
Nov 23 21:24:01 <type_t2> i'm screwing  with the i386 stuff. just let my fingers do the conspiracy talk.
Nov 23 21:24:33 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, fail.
Nov 23 21:24:40 <GeneralAntilles> It's a /Nokia/ conspiracy, duh.
Nov 23 21:24:52 <GeneralAntilles> They don't want Talk spreading around anymore negative press.
Nov 23 21:25:05 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, true, that's even more likely!
Nov 23 21:25:19 <javispedro> Talk's been killed?
Nov 23 21:25:27 * javispedro jumps
Nov 23 21:25:32 <type_t2> wel lets raise HELL
Nov 23 21:25:38 <andre__> javispedro, not really, it just smelled funny today
Nov 23 21:25:39 <Milhouse> Apparently it got DDOS'd
Nov 23 21:25:39 <javispedro> HEL.
Nov 23 21:25:45 <Milhouse> Back now though
Nov 23 21:26:03 <RST38h> please do not raise hell
Nov 23 21:26:15 <andre__> so can somebody please define the term "Device lock" for me?
Nov 23 21:26:22 * andre__ is confused whether he runs into features or bugs
Nov 23 21:26:28 <RST38h> please seat quietly and attempt to think before you press the submit button on t.m.o
Nov 23 21:26:29 <ShadowJK> oooh, nokia emailed me today to say my N900 is in the mail :D
Nov 23 21:26:30 <type_t2> so its a $600+ DOLLAR unit.. right ..
Nov 23 21:26:44 <RST38h> read your comment twice, if you still want to push that submit button, do
Nov 23 21:26:46 <ShadowJK> or with a courier who'll undoubtedly get lost... i hope it's in the mail
Nov 23 21:26:48 <Xisdibik> andre__: its when you put a padlock around your phone :D
Nov 23 21:26:56 <xorAxAx> kensington :)
Nov 23 21:27:07 <andre__> Xisdibik, okay. need to rename functions in that case :-P
Nov 23 21:27:42 <ShadowJK> andre__, I think there's some legal mumbo jumbo requiring phones to dial emergency number even when locked
Nov 23 21:27:49 <qwerty12> Xisdibik: http://qwerty12.qole.org/attachment-EOTL3U.png
Nov 23 21:27:59 <andre__> ShadowJK, yeah, sure, I think I'm aware of it
Nov 23 21:28:26 <ShadowJK> a feature would be to warn the user that "9112" is not a good choice for lock code
Nov 23 21:28:28 <Xisdibik> woot im famous
Nov 23 21:28:41 <andre__> I think I should read Nokia's supersecret UI Specifications to get a clue about Device lock...
Nov 23 21:29:52 <GAN900> type_t2, under $500 at Amazon.
Nov 23 21:30:37 <Milhouse> Where are people getting all these multiple 15% discount codes in the UK?
Nov 23 21:31:03 <Milhouse> I see people using 3x 15% discount codes plus another 10% discount and wonder wtf? :)
Nov 23 21:31:14 <timeless_mbp> andre__: you could read my strings :)
Nov 23 21:31:35 <Stskeeps> Milhouse: also a lot of them getting orders cancelled :P
Nov 23 21:31:37 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: there is indeed such mumbo jumbo
Nov 23 21:31:47 <Milhouse> Sts: yeah, but seems a bit random
Nov 23 21:32:09 <Milhouse> Sts: It might be cheaper to get a device through retail with these discounts that to persist with DDP
Nov 23 21:32:10 <andre__> "I got 7 of those discount codes, now Nokia has to pay me some money"
Nov 23 21:32:19 <Milhouse> andre: :)
Nov 23 21:32:29 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: well - more have said it worked than hasn't.
Nov 23 21:32:52 <Milhouse> Anyone know the source of these codes?
Nov 23 21:32:53 <timeless_mbp> andre__: so...
Nov 23 21:32:55 <SpeedEvil> millenomi: It just happened that topcashback.co.uk had a few voucher codes for the n900
Nov 23 21:32:58 <SpeedEvil> Milhouse:
Nov 23 21:33:03 <timeless_mbp> There's Device Lock, SIM Lock, and Screen Lock
Nov 23 21:33:13 <SpeedEvil> Milhouse: I think most of the codes have now expired
Nov 23 21:33:15 <millenomi> who dares summon my na-- oh, nick mishap
Nov 23 21:33:17 <timeless_mbp> Device Lock is basically a CAL based pin which you need to enable the device
Nov 23 21:33:20 <timeless_mbp> minus emergency calls
Nov 23 21:33:43 <andre__> timeless_mbp, strings? what? where? why?
Nov 23 21:33:44 <Milhouse> SpeedEvil: Bummer... thanks. I'll have a snout around topcashback though just in case
Nov 23 21:33:44 <timeless_mbp> SIM Lock is a SIM based pin (plus PIN2 and PUK and friends) which you need to enable Network services
Nov 23 21:33:48 <timeless_mbp> andre__: enus1
Nov 23 21:33:48 <andre__> ah.
Nov 23 21:33:52 <SpeedEvil> http://www.topcashback.co.uk/retailerdetailNokia.htm - 12% ATM
Nov 23 21:33:55 <andre__> nope. no time :)
Nov 23 21:34:03 <timeless_mbp> network services may or may not include emergency call
Nov 23 21:34:11 <timeless_mbp> (it technically iirc varies by country)
Nov 23 21:34:20 <timeless_mbp> (i.e. local law)
Nov 23 21:34:25 <SpeedEvil> the UK you can't make calls without a SIM
Nov 23 21:34:35 <SpeedEvil> ^emergency
Nov 23 21:34:38 <timeless_mbp> Screen Lock prevents most key / pressure input
Nov 23 21:34:45 <SpeedEvil> A valid SIM, logged onto a network
Nov 23 21:34:54 <timeless_mbp> and can be unlocked by opening the screen, using the sliding thing at one side
Nov 23 21:35:03 <timeless_mbp> or by pressing power and then sliding the thingy on the screen
Nov 23 21:35:09 <Milhouse> SpeedEvil - so are these codes "earned"?
Nov 23 21:35:26 <timeless_mbp> andre__: anyway, is that clear as mud?
Nov 23 21:35:36 <Milhouse> SpeedEvil: ie. I've got to buy stuff before getting a code?
Nov 23 21:35:43 <SpeedEvil> Milhouse: no.
Nov 23 21:35:59 <Milhouse> SpeedEvil: So just give an email address and that's it?
Nov 23 21:36:24 <SpeedEvil> Milhouse: It happened that tehre was a 15% discount, a 15% discount code that someone found for 'accessories' - and then a 15% nokia-club or something one
Nov 23 21:36:28 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 23 21:36:34 <andre__> timeless_mbp, oh yeah :)
Nov 23 21:36:36 <Milhouse> Sweet...
Nov 23 21:36:53 <SpeedEvil> the topcashback site gets commission for orders you place through them. They pass this onto you
Nov 23 21:37:03 <timeless_mbp> andre__: do you have an ubuntu/debian system somewhere?
Nov 23 21:37:08 <andre__> "nokia-club"? sounds like a finnish mixed sauna with some extras "services"...
Nov 23 21:37:22 <andre__> timeless_mbp, yes, on the computer next to this one (but not switched on)
Nov 23 21:37:24 <timeless_mbp> because you can use the advanced options portion of my package to do localization lookup
Nov 23 21:37:30 <javispedro> nokia-conspiracy sounds much better.
Nov 23 21:37:32 <timeless_mbp> which could at times be helpful :)
Nov 23 21:37:43 <andre__> hmm, true :)
Nov 23 21:38:50 <qwerty12> javispedro: Can I apt-get install that?
Nov 23 21:39:30 <javispedro> no, it apt-get installs you.
Nov 23 21:39:30 <Milhouse> SpeedEvil: Hmmm looks like there's just a 15% discount on accessories and a 10% discount on selected phones (not including N900)
Nov 23 21:39:38 <qwerty12> Heh
Nov 23 21:42:31 <javispedro> more like it apt-get purges you.
Nov 23 21:45:17 <SpeedEvil> the accessories discount was one I used, and it worked for the phone
Nov 23 21:45:44 <SpeedEvil> Enter it - see if it works in the cart. You can see before checking out.
Nov 23 21:45:53 <GeneralAntilles> Milhouse, are there any aftermarket warranty services in the UK?
Nov 23 21:46:04 <GeneralAntilles> Milhouse, the SquareTrade thing in the US is actually a pretty decent idea.
Nov 23 21:46:33 <lcuk> whats that then GeneralAntilles ?
Nov 23 21:46:46 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: warranty has to be 12 months in the UK (generally)
Nov 23 21:47:07 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: and you can return it unless you don't like it until 10 days for a full refund, including shipping.
Nov 23 21:47:10 <xorAxAx> can the n900 act as a bluetooth modem for a notebook?
Nov 23 21:47:12 <GeneralAntilles> SpeedEvil, not for DDP.
Nov 23 21:47:21 <timeless_mbp> xl
Nov 23 21:47:26 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: yes
Nov 23 21:47:33 <timeless_mbp> xorAxAx: google for it
Nov 23 21:47:36 <xorAxAx> good
Nov 23 21:47:49 <GeneralAntilles> http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles
Nov 23 21:48:08 <GeneralAntilles> ~bluetooth-profiles
Nov 23 21:48:14 <GeneralAntilles> ~bluetooth-profiles is http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles
Nov 23 21:48:15 <infobot> okay, GeneralAntilles
Nov 23 21:48:17 <Milhouse> GeneralAntilles: Not that I'm aware of
Nov 23 21:48:31 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: I'm unsure that is legal.
Nov 23 21:48:52 <Milhouse> SpeedEvil/GA: Yes, a 1 week warranty is pretty dodgey ground from a legal standpoint in the UK
Nov 23 21:49:13 <type_t2> instead of passing the link .why dont you just say yas or no?..
Nov 23 21:49:30 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: the distance selling act certainly does not have any language saying 'unless you have a karma >200'
Nov 23 21:49:54 <GeneralAntilles> type_t2, because the link guides you through the steps necessary to do it? :)
Nov 23 21:52:10 <type_t2> tethering not allowed. is what you should say
Nov 23 21:52:53 <GeneralAntilles> type_t2, problem is, that's not actually the case.
Nov 23 21:53:08 <penguinbait> type_t2 are you always this rude to people actually trying to help you?
Nov 23 21:53:22 <GeneralAntilles> type_t2, unless you actually know more about this than me, I recommend you try absorbing information rather than lecturing. :)
Nov 23 21:53:53 <GeneralAntilles> penguinbait, he's being rude to people trying to help other people, actually.
Nov 23 21:53:57 <GeneralAntilles> Peanut gallery.
Nov 23 21:58:51 <type_t2> ok i see you tell me i i'm lecturing ..just said i would that you rather say yes or no instead of posting links .. thats not rude.  :p
Nov 23 21:59:48 <javispedro> so let's sue Nokia.
Nov 23 22:00:04 <lardman> ~seen setanta
Nov 23 22:00:08 <infobot> setanta is currently on #maemo (8h 29m 29s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 7h 8m 14s, last said: 'I will check who have taken it'.
Nov 23 22:00:12 <penguinbait> ok, being an arse for no reason, or at least unknown to me?
Nov 23 22:01:05 <GeneralAntilles> type_t2, timeless_mbp answered yes, I provided the additional information.
Nov 23 22:01:22 <GeneralAntilles> type_t2, no kindly leave off harassing the people trying to help. :)
Nov 23 22:02:43 <type_t2> i am kind more than you think .. you probably need someone to crack you nuts on. and its me.. :>
Nov 23 22:04:03 <mikkov> lardman: I did indt games (including battlegweled) packages for Diablo
Nov 23 22:09:01 <lardman> mikkov: ah cool
Nov 23 22:09:12 <lardman> mikkov: any plans to do some for Fremantle?
Nov 23 22:10:44 <mikkov> Not really, there's too much overhead with extras-testing stuff
Nov 23 22:10:57 <lardman> ok
Nov 23 22:11:05 <lardman> is the source available in Garage?
Nov 23 22:11:12 <mikkov> But it's only a recompile and tweaking the depencies
Nov 23 22:11:29 <lardman> yep
Nov 23 22:11:49 <mikkov> Up to chinook source is in garage
Nov 23 22:12:16 <lardman> cool, will do some repackaging then
Nov 23 22:12:21 <mikkov> But it's easier to take diablo packages from diablo repository
Nov 23 22:12:28 <GeneralAntilles> Does the games startup need tweaking in Fremantle?
Nov 23 22:12:29 <lardman> oh right, ok
Nov 23 22:12:37 <lardman> no idea
Nov 23 22:12:47 <javispedro> a few bits -- menu stuff.
Nov 23 22:12:48 <mikkov> No code changes needed
Nov 23 22:13:05 <javispedro> menuitems won't show in hildonappmenu
Nov 23 22:13:09 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles: You've seen Chess and the like. Apart from a back button added, do they really look different?
Nov 23 22:13:28 <mikkov> I tested it some day
Nov 23 22:13:33 <javispedro> try opening the menu
Nov 23 22:13:34 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, didn't it get a whitelist of games or somesuch?
Nov 23 22:14:27 <mikkov> lardman: sdlnet depency is not needed, battlegweled was supposed to be network game but that feature was never finished
Nov 23 22:15:01 <javispedro> it has a "list of blessed sdl games" for bug 3748
Nov 23 22:15:03 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3748 Erroneous "Game not started yet" message
Nov 23 22:15:06 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles: No idea how it works. I actually think it's rather stupid and developers should write their own GUIs and power saving measures but that's another story...
Nov 23 22:15:21 <javispedro> but games not in the whitelist work nonetheless.
Nov 23 22:15:35 * pwnguin needs to look at sgt-puzzles for maemo5
Nov 23 22:20:09 <lardman> hmm, hacked into submission without a recompile
Nov 23 22:23:26 <Cr0n_>  I need to take pictures from the command line in the n810, which would be the simplest way?
Nov 23 22:23:52 <GeneralAntilles> Cr0n_, screenshot or photos?
Nov 23 22:24:12 <Cr0n_> no
Nov 23 22:24:16 <Cr0n_> photos
Nov 23 22:24:22 <GeneralAntilles> dbus/gstreamer
Nov 23 22:24:27 <GeneralAntilles> Not sure of the specific recipe.
Nov 23 22:24:43 <Cr0n_> look my error
Nov 23 22:24:54 * javispedro wonders how can OO.org be SO slow on a 2Ghz computer.
Nov 23 22:25:09 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, because your computer sucks, clearly.
Nov 23 22:25:22 <Cr0n_> gst-launch-0.10 v4l2src device=/dev/video0 num-buffers=1 ! video/x-raw-yuv,width=352,height=288,framerate=10/1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! jpegenc ! filesink location=/home/user/MyDocs/.images/file.jpg
Nov 23 22:25:23 <GeneralAntilles> 2.0GHz is so 2005.
Nov 23 22:25:38 <javispedro> hey, perfect guess.
Nov 23 22:25:39 <lardman> nah, in the same way that TMO and Maemo.org can be slow on my 2GHz computer ;)
Nov 23 22:25:41 <javispedro> it is from 2005.
Nov 23 22:25:45 <Cr0n_> Warning: erooneous pipeline: no element "jpegenc"
Nov 23 22:26:00 <GeneralAntilles> s/Maemo.org/maemo.org/g
Nov 23 22:26:04 <lardman> Cr0n_: do you have that element?
Nov 23 22:26:13 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: yeah, was just wondering about that! :D
Nov 23 22:26:37 <Cr0n_> yes
Nov 23 22:26:52 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, careful now, or we're going to have to send you for reeducation.
Nov 23 22:27:15 <lardman> let me finish a few tasks first please!
Nov 23 22:27:23 <lardman> for the good of the (lower-case) maemo
Nov 23 22:27:31 <ShadowJK> I hardly notice any difference between my computer running at 2.0 and my computer running at 2.83GHz...
Nov 23 22:27:34 <qwerty12> lardman: maemo sucks. Maemo.Org is the future
Nov 23 22:27:38 <GeneralAntilles> Lowercase maemo is so 2005
Nov 23 22:27:43 <javispedro> save for OO.org being slow on both.
Nov 23 22:27:52 <ShadowJK> ooo and firefox make it just as slow as my P133 back in the days :)
Nov 23 22:28:05 <lardman> Cr0n_: well if the element is present, then I've no idea
Nov 23 22:28:15 <lardman> perhaps try gst-inspect to see if it's seen by gts
Nov 23 22:28:18 <lardman> gst
Nov 23 22:28:19 <javispedro> I have to wonder what the "Use OpenGL" setting does in OO.org, other than slow it down even more.
Nov 23 22:28:26 <lcuk> well, i thought i would never have to use the phrase "evil dead jigsaw baby with worms coming out of its head"
Nov 23 22:28:55 <lardman> you and me both
Nov 23 22:29:18 <Cr0n_> lardman: tanks
Nov 23 22:29:18 <lardman> lcuk: how are things other than the jigsaw worms?
Nov 23 22:29:24 <lardman> Cr0n_: np
Nov 23 22:30:49 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: I thought my CPU fan was dying, so I reduced my CPU from 2.3 GHz to 1 GHz
Nov 23 22:30:56 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: still haven't noticed a difference
Nov 23 22:31:00 <lcuk> lardman, im happy.
Nov 23 22:31:15 <lcuk> v tired cos still picking up lots of things each day
Nov 23 22:31:49 <lardman> having the VB beaten out of you? ;)
Nov 23 22:32:16 <derf> lcuk found a job?
Nov 23 22:32:33 <javispedro> where lcuk is now, I'm sure just mentioning VB is penalized :)
Nov 23 22:33:00 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, did you reduce voltage too?
Nov 23 22:33:07 <ShadowJK> that's what makes the most difference ;)
Nov 23 22:33:11 * javispedro is currently working at 1Ghz too
Nov 23 22:34:00 <lcuk> derf, yes \o/ i am a collaboran now, and javispedro you are right
Nov 23 22:34:01 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: fwiw "game not started yet" shouldn't exist at all
Nov 23 22:34:12 <timeless_mbp> it's a ui design botch
Nov 23 22:34:18 <GeneralAntilles> lol, I like the latest mail on -developers.
Nov 23 22:34:26 <Cr0n_> lardman: know any other simple way to take pictures command line?
Nov 23 22:34:27 <javispedro> timeless: agreed. it's detailing implementation details for a start.
Nov 23 22:34:30 <lcuk> tho maybe not
Nov 23 22:34:36 <derf> lcuk: Congrats.
Nov 23 22:34:57 <derf> Collabora is good people.
Nov 23 22:35:04 <lardman> Cr0n_: does jpgenc not work for you?
Nov 23 22:35:35 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: it's telling the user something the user already knows
Nov 23 22:35:40 * hotaru2k3 currently only has an htc hero and an n810... 1GHz must be nice.
Nov 23 22:35:58 <timeless_mbp> and which is readily apparent from the rest of the app's currently visible state
Nov 23 22:36:00 <javispedro> hotaru2k3: by default it's at 2Ghz
Nov 23 22:36:17 <lardman> javispedro: what's this?
Nov 23 22:36:23 <javispedro> dunno.
Nov 23 22:36:35 <lardman> not a pda then...?
Nov 23 22:36:42 <lardman> Cr0n_: which device is this btw?
Nov 23 22:37:16 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: anyway, this bug is fixed by enus1 for diablo
Nov 23 22:37:21 <timeless_mbp> and presumably by enus1 for fremantle
Nov 23 22:37:31 <javispedro> hotaru2k3: the N900 maxes at 600Mhz, if that's what you're talking about.
Nov 23 22:37:41 <javispedro> timeless: "fixed" is "removed"?
Nov 23 22:37:49 <timeless_mbp> replaced by " " :)
Nov 23 22:38:00 <javispedro> so the banner still appears? :(
Nov 23 22:38:02 <timeless_mbp> that's how i fix most bugs in Nokia's software
Nov 23 22:38:09 <timeless_mbp> wait, this is a *banner*?
Nov 23 22:38:17 <timeless_mbp> oh yeah, you probably get an empty banner :)
Nov 23 22:38:17 <lardman> Cr0n_: jpgenc or jpegenc.......?
Nov 23 22:38:19 <javispedro> yes...
Nov 23 22:38:27 <timeless_mbp> how do i trigger this?
Nov 23 22:38:31 <javispedro> the banner distorts the hw pixel doubled window -- result: a mess.
Nov 23 22:38:37 <lardman> Cr0n_: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/55089?page=last
Nov 23 22:39:01 <Cr0n_> lardman:
Nov 23 22:39:02 <Cr0n_> jpegenc is coming from libjpg.la coming from gst-plugins-good, ok.
Nov 23 22:39:04 <Cr0n_> I could not found any package for maemo that I generate the libjpg.la then compiled external and copy to / usr / lib /
Nov 23 22:39:04 <lardman> framerate stuff depends on platform, for the N900 will be different
Nov 23 22:39:16 <hotaru2k3> what i'm talking about is how much faster 1GHz is than anything i have right now
Nov 23 22:39:29 <lardman> Cr0n_: which platform?
Nov 23 22:39:34 <javispedro> timeless: boot blocks on diablo, click "Play", wait dbus timeout time (30 seconds iirc).
Nov 23 22:39:35 <Cr0n_> arm
Nov 23 22:39:43 <lardman> n810? N900?
Nov 23 22:39:46 <javispedro> hotaru2k3: you don't have a computer?
Nov 23 22:39:50 <timeless_mbp> hrm, i'd have to find my n800/n810
Nov 23 22:39:53 <Cr0n_> lardman: scratchbox , n810
Nov 23 22:39:54 <Shapeshifter> What will we see first? The higgs boson, or the n900?
Nov 23 22:39:59 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: could you install enus1 and see what happens? :)
Nov 23 22:39:59 * Shapeshifter is excited.
Nov 23 22:40:05 <javispedro> timeless: on fremantle, boot any non-whitelisted sdl game, like drnoksnes
Nov 23 22:40:07 <timeless_mbp> it should be in diablo extras-devel
Nov 23 22:40:07 <lardman> Cr0n_: hmm, sb, that will be different and may not work
Nov 23 22:40:15 <lardman> Cr0n_: on-device it ought to work though
Nov 23 22:40:27 * timeless_mbp looks for drnoksnes
Nov 23 22:40:30 <lardman> Cr0n_: v4l2src num-buffers=1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! video/x-raw-
Nov 23 22:40:30 <lardman> yuv,width=640,height=480,framerate=8/1 ! jpegenc ! filesink
Nov 23 22:40:30 <lardman> location=test.jpg
Nov 23 22:40:49 <timeless_mbp> what repo has drnoksnes?
Nov 23 22:40:50 <javispedro> timeless: you'll need a rom so if you don't have a few minutes don't do it :)
Nov 23 22:40:58 <timeless_mbp> ok
Nov 23 22:41:04 <timeless_mbp> how about something that doesn't require a rom?
Nov 23 22:41:13 <timeless_mbp> i never owned an snes
Nov 23 22:41:15 <javispedro> how many osso-games-startup games are there on extras now?
Nov 23 22:41:33 <Cr0n_> lardman: I tried other program but most of the illegal instruction in the function gettimeofday ().example fswebcam
Nov 23 22:41:46 <timeless_mbp> that'd require the extras-devel repo to not be broken?
Nov 23 22:41:50 <lardman> Cr0n_: the emulation is not great
Nov 23 22:41:51 <GeneralAntilles> Aren't there some free license SNES ROMs about?
Nov 23 22:42:52 <javispedro> http://gra.dforce3000.de/ guess so.
Nov 23 22:43:02 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: talk to qwerty12 ;)
Nov 23 22:43:25 <qwerty12> Why would I deal in free ROMs?
Nov 23 22:43:37 <lardman> true
Nov 23 22:43:59 <timeless_mbp> so i should try that one?
Nov 23 22:44:04 <Cr0n_> lardman: what would be the right command line to take a picture using gstreamer
Nov 23 22:44:19 <javispedro> timeless: drnoksnes is on extras-devel too so...
Nov 23 22:44:31 <lardman> Cr0n_: in scratchbox I have no idea; on-device that one above should work
Nov 23 22:44:35 <hotaru2k3> javispedro: well i do have a fairly old dell set up as a web server, a quadra 650, a tandy 1000 sx, and some kind of atari, but those are all over 1000 miles away from where i am now
Nov 23 22:45:20 <timeless_mbp> i have extras enabled
Nov 23 22:45:22 <timeless_mbp> but not devel
Nov 23 22:45:34 <timeless_mbp> i also have testing enabled
Nov 23 22:47:05 <Dantonic> hi any networking experts here?
Nov 23 22:47:21 <SpeedEvil> Dantonic: I play one on TV.
Nov 23 22:47:32 <Dantonic> oh? lol
Nov 23 22:47:35 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil, you do?
Nov 23 22:47:37 <timeless_mbp> i slept in a holiday in express last night
Nov 23 22:47:42 <timeless_mbp> actually, i didn't
Nov 23 22:47:47 * javispedro realizes he's practically the only one using osso-games-startup right now
Nov 23 22:47:51 <Dantonic> lol timeless_mbp
Nov 23 22:47:54 * SpeedEvil traces Dantonics IP using visual basic.
Nov 23 22:48:15 <Dantonic> I can't see my desktop on the network... want to ssh to it with the NIT
Nov 23 22:48:20 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, as a user, I find that rather unfortunate.
Nov 23 22:48:23 <Dantonic> I just upgraded to 9.10 from 9.04.. ubuntu
Nov 23 22:48:30 <ShadowJK> "see"?
Nov 23 22:48:37 <SpeedEvil> Dantonic: you mean NAT?
Nov 23 22:48:52 <ShadowJK> ubuntu probably comes with a firewall enabled by default
Nov 23 22:48:55 <ShadowJK> atleat fedora does
Nov 23 22:48:56 <Dantonic> it's no where... it's not even in the DHCP ACTIVE IPs
Nov 23 22:48:58 <ShadowJK> atleast*
Nov 23 22:48:59 <timeless_mbp> Dantonic: do you want to find your ip address?
Nov 23 22:49:02 <Dantonic> I mean from my N900 SpeedEvil
Nov 23 22:49:05 <Dantonic> N800 sorry
Nov 23 22:49:06 <Dantonic> N800*
Nov 23 22:49:12 <Dantonic> I know my local IP
Nov 23 22:49:18 <SpeedEvil> Dantonic: what is your n900 connected to?
Nov 23 22:49:19 <Dantonic> I've tried setting it to static within interfaces
Nov 23 22:49:28 <qwerty12> javispedro: The others still have something in return - their sanity :p
Nov 23 22:49:32 <Dantonic> my wireless router
Nov 23 22:49:35 <Cr0n_> lardman: v412src not found
Nov 23 22:49:42 <Dantonic> on my active IP list on the router I see my N800 and my other laptops
Nov 23 22:49:46 <Cr0n_> lardman: what package
Nov 23 22:49:48 <javispedro> oh, using o-g-s back in its day wasn't mentally challenging.
Nov 23 22:49:48 <Dantonic> cant see the desktop
Nov 23 22:50:01 <SpeedEvil> Dantonic: does the desktop have a static IP?
Nov 23 22:50:07 <Dantonic> not right now
Nov 23 22:50:14 <Dantonic> I just got rid of it in the hope that it would work
Nov 23 22:50:32 <qwerty12> javispedro: Not to claim I know how to use it, but that Chess shit put me right off
Nov 23 22:50:34 <lardman> Cr0n_: iirc there were some specific instructions for getting the video pipeline to work under sb
Nov 23 22:50:41 <lardman> tho where those are I don;t know
Nov 23 22:51:04 <Dantonic> any ideas SpeedEvil ?
Nov 23 22:51:27 <ShadowJK> walk up the the machine and look at what the ip is?
Nov 23 22:51:41 <ShadowJK> s/up the/up to
Nov 23 22:51:46 <Dantonic> well I know what it is with ifconfig
Nov 23 22:51:51 <ShadowJK> uh
Nov 23 22:51:59 <Dantonic> no?
Nov 23 22:52:03 <ShadowJK> yes
Nov 23 22:52:11 <Dantonic> ShadowJK, I'm noob too btw
Nov 23 22:52:13 <ShadowJK> what is it?
Nov 23 22:52:37 <Dantonic> it's 103
Nov 23 22:53:44 <Cr0n_> larkman:
Nov 23 22:53:45 <Cr0n_> I'm using n810, not sb.
Nov 23 22:53:47 <Cr0n_> the command I gave was this:
Nov 23 22:53:48 <Dantonic> man this is annoying
Nov 23 22:53:50 <lardman> do gtk_text_views automatically update when the buffer you point them at changes?
Nov 23 22:54:04 <Cr0n_> lardman: v4l2src num-buffers=1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! video/x-raw-yuv,width=640,height=480,framerate=8/1 ! jpegenc ! filesink location=test.jpg
Nov 23 22:54:37 <lardman> yep?
Nov 23 22:54:37 <SpeedEvil> Dantonic: can you ssh to the desktop from anything?
Nov 23 22:55:05 <Dantonic> no
Nov 23 22:55:16 <ShadowJK> firewall
Nov 23 22:55:22 <Dantonic> that's probably why
Nov 23 22:55:36 <Dantonic> so I have to disable it?
Nov 23 22:55:39 <Dantonic> shoudl I have to?
Nov 23 22:56:14 * javispedro loves OO.org spell checker which tries to autocorrect "deduce" into "seduce". Would look wonderful in a paper.
Nov 23 22:56:15 <Dantonic> can't have a firewall and be visible?
Nov 23 22:56:24 <ShadowJK> "visible" has nothing to do with it
Nov 23 22:56:37 <qwerty12> javispedro: Just use Word already =)
Nov 23 22:56:46 <javispedro> the CrossOver Office icon is tempting.
Nov 23 22:57:28 <Dantonic> ShadowJK, so what do you mean? do I have to configure it so it makes me visible? or just disable the firewall? or that's not the problem?
Nov 23 22:57:33 <Cr0n_> lardman: WARNING: erroneous pipeline: no element "jpgenc"
Nov 23 22:58:04 <ShadowJK> Well, you'd have to allow port 22 atleast
Nov 23 22:58:16 <ShadowJK> Because that's where ssh is
Nov 23 22:58:24 <pwnguin> Cr0n_: jpgenc or jpegenc?
Nov 23 22:58:45 <lardman> don't forget the "e"
Nov 23 22:59:39 <Dantonic> ShadowJK, ya port 22 is forwarded
Nov 23 22:59:57 <ShadowJK> So you are trying to connect to your computer from outside your LAN?
Nov 23 22:59:57 <Cr0n_> pwnguin: jpegenc
Nov 23 23:00:25 <Dantonic> ShadowJK, neither way works outside or inside
Nov 23 23:00:25 <lardman> and "gst-inspect-0.10 jpegenc"?
Nov 23 23:00:34 <lardman> pastebin it though as it will be voluminous
Nov 23 23:00:39 <DocScrutinizer> Dantonic: that's internal->internal, I guess. Or do you try to your desktop's world visible addr
Nov 23 23:01:00 <ShadowJK> Well from outside you need to connect to the router's IP, and the router needs to forward port 22 to the ubuntu machine's IP, and the ubuntu machine needs to not block port 22 in both cases :)
Nov 23 23:01:16 <ShadowJK> the router's outside IP, the router will have two IPs
Nov 23 23:01:18 <Dantonic> DocScrutinizer, I've tried both... I have my local ip to which port 22 is forwarded to
Nov 23 23:01:31 <Dantonic> then I try to connect to my internet address
Nov 23 23:01:36 <DocScrutinizer> or you need to config the firewall internal rules correctly, not the external
Nov 23 23:01:38 <Dantonic> or if I'm on the network to my local address
Nov 23 23:01:42 <Dantonic> either way it doesnt work
Nov 23 23:01:57 <Dantonic> DocScrutinizer, I have no idea how to configure a firewall can you point me in the right direction?
Nov 23 23:02:30 <DocScrutinizer> a lot of cheap router-NATs don't forward internal traffic to an external IP back to internal dest
Nov 23 23:02:45 <DocScrutinizer> e.g Zyxel
Nov 23 23:02:53 <Xisdibik> qwerty12_N900: you ok, you had a collision
Nov 23 23:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> need to do IP local-loopback enable or sth
Nov 23 23:03:15 <qwerty12_N900> Xisdibik: Yeah, I survived =)
Nov 23 23:03:17 <javispedro> he has like 30 or 40 collisions a day. I'm surprised his n901 is still not scratched.
Nov 23 23:03:21 <Dantonic> hang on brb
Nov 23 23:04:01 <DocScrutinizer> dansorry I can't as firewall user interface is really different each time
Nov 23 23:04:37 <Xisdibik> qwerty12_N900: did you get his insurance information? ;)
Nov 23 23:05:32 <qwerty12_N900> Xisdibik: No, the bastard did a hit-and-run
Nov 23 23:05:34 <Cr0n_> pwnguin:  know what can be?hence the jpegenc?libjpeg.la is the same?
Nov 23 23:05:36 <ShadowJK> the output of "iptables -vnL" on the ubuntu bux would tell you whether there are any firewall rules there
Nov 23 23:05:53 * javispedro is still running, having stolen qwerty12_N900's N900.
Nov 23 23:06:27 <lardman> qwerty12_N900: /me grabs a large stick, which way did he go...?
Nov 23 23:06:51 <lardman> oh, it was javispedro, in which case /me goes back to coding
Nov 23 23:06:58 <AakashPatel> hey everyone
Nov 23 23:07:03 <ShadowJK> and also check whether openssh server is installed.....
Nov 23 23:07:05 <lardman> hi
Nov 23 23:07:08 * ShadowJK goes sleep
Nov 23 23:07:13 <lardman> night ShadowJK
Nov 23 23:07:22 <AakashPatel> Does maemo have some sort of "emulator" to test apps in?
Nov 23 23:07:25 * javispedro goes back to writing "so from the data we can clearly seduce that the assumptions"
Nov 23 23:07:47 <lardman> :)
Nov 23 23:08:21 <ShadowJK> At one point ooo started guessing the language for me. It mostly guesses the wrong language and puts red ink under everything
Nov 23 23:08:25 <Dantonic> DocScrutinizer, I've done a sudo ufw disable  and no luck, I guess it's not the firewall?  what were you suggesting regarding loopbacks etc.. don't know what that means
Nov 23 23:08:51 <ShadowJK> can you do "ssh user@localhost" on the ubuntu machine? ;-)
Nov 23 23:08:54 <lardman> ShadowJK: MS Word does that and tries spelling in Americanese
Nov 23 23:09:05 <DocScrutinizer> I meant your fw in router-NAT (if there's any)
Nov 23 23:09:05 <ShadowJK> or ssh user@192.168.1.103 or whatever the IP was
Nov 23 23:09:06 <Dantonic> on the machine itself? ssh into it?
Nov 23 23:09:11 <ShadowJK> Dantonic, es
Nov 23 23:09:11 <ShadowJK> yes
Nov 23 23:09:29 <derf> lardman: Z's are good for you.
Nov 23 23:09:47 <Dantonic> ShadowJK, yes that works fine
Nov 23 23:09:49 <ShadowJK> curse this irc on tablet, i don't get away from it even when closing monitor
Nov 23 23:10:02 <DocScrutinizer> even better, try the external IP
Nov 23 23:10:13 <DocScrutinizer> from desktop, to desktop
Nov 23 23:10:26 <lardman> derf: only in certain works; it's the missing u's that get me :)
Nov 23 23:10:32 <lardman> s/works/words
Nov 23 23:10:40 <Dantonic> wow now it works locally from the N800 too...
Nov 23 23:10:48 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Nov 23 23:11:03 <derf> lardman: That's just because you speak with a funny accent.
Nov 23 23:11:22 <lardman> it's all relative
Nov 23 23:11:27 <lardman> to English ;)
Nov 23 23:11:57 <Dantonic> wow it all works now
Nov 23 23:11:58 <derf> As my first CS teacher (from the Bronx) once said: "It's not my fault you all talk funny."
Nov 23 23:12:14 <Dantonic> even externally wtf
Nov 23 23:12:19 <lardman> exactly the attitude I take with you lot :D
Nov 23 23:13:15 <Dantonic> ok so now I can ssh into it no problem, but I still dont see it in the dhcp clients table?
Nov 23 23:13:33 <Dantonic> this must be cause I disabled the firewall
Nov 23 23:13:35 <hotaru2k3> those extra u's are french, not english
Nov 23 23:14:17 <lardman> yeah, but we're quite close to France
Nov 23 23:14:33 <lardman> geographically, not in our like for snails ;)
Nov 23 23:14:49 <lardman> where's khertan, luckily not here to hit me
Nov 23 23:14:51 <AakashPatel> lol
Nov 23 23:15:28 <lcuk> AakashPatel, maemo sdk
Nov 23 23:15:55 <AakashPatel> lcuk, oh sweet
Nov 23 23:16:09 <Dantonic> damn so I have to keep the firewall down to ssh?
Nov 23 23:16:34 <lcuk> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation
Nov 23 23:17:25 <|R> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php <- what's the diff between vanilla, global and usa ?
Nov 23 23:18:35 <|R> uhm nevermind vanilla is just the internal demos i guess, but global vs usa vs ... ?
Nov 23 23:20:54 <SpeedEvil> It's all the same bar the keyboard labels
Nov 23 23:21:20 <SpeedEvil> Dantonic: or you need to configure the firewall to allow ssh
Nov 23 23:21:30 <lcuk> the USA version high 5s you when you get a text
Nov 23 23:22:08 <qwerty12_N900> lcuk: The USA version doesn't know what a text is
Nov 23 23:22:16 <SpeedEvil> Also it uses the speed of 3g networks to continually stream all your calls and web accesses to the NSA.
Nov 23 23:22:18 <lcuk> lol
Nov 23 23:22:24 <lardman> lol
Nov 23 23:23:12 <lardman> over here we're reasonably safe because they spend all their time looking at qwerty12_N900's usage
Nov 23 23:23:19 <derf> Don't be silly. That's done from the telco.
Nov 23 23:23:33 <lcuk> the bosses at ikea must be furious!
Nov 23 23:23:37 <Dantonic> SpeedEvil, how do I configre the firewall to allow ssh?
Nov 23 23:23:53 <SpeedEvil> Dantonic: I have no idea at all how to do it in ubuntu.
Nov 23 23:23:53 <lardman> does qwerty12_N900 work at Ikea?
Nov 23 23:23:57 <lcuk> or extremely happy, i cannot decide how people feel
Nov 23 23:24:02 <lcuk> i have to go there tomorrow
Nov 23 23:24:12 <lardman> hard luck
Nov 23 23:24:13 <qwerty12_N900> lardman: No, he does not!
Nov 23 23:24:18 <Dantonic> ok SpeedEvil thanks I'll look into it...
Nov 23 23:24:18 <lardman> qwerty12_N900: good lad!
Nov 23 23:24:24 <lcuk> tracy is over the moon
Nov 23 23:24:38 <lardman> qwerty12_N900: tho think of all the cheap furniture....
Nov 23 23:24:40 <lcuk> shes been training
Nov 23 23:25:01 <qwerty12_N900> lardman: You're right. *polishes knife*
Nov 23 23:25:05 <lardman> training to order you about and then ask if you need help carrying the awkward 40kg box....?
Nov 23 23:25:08 <lcuk> lardman, hows your projects goin
Nov 23 23:25:23 <lcuk> you have put down barcode for now havent you
Nov 23 23:25:32 <lardman> nah, doing stuff now actually
Nov 23 23:25:36 <lcuk> :D
Nov 23 23:25:37 * SpeedEvil is currently doing a barcodey thing too
Nov 23 23:25:38 <lardman> just getting ui to rotate
Nov 23 23:25:49 <lardman> SpeedEvil: using zbar?
Nov 23 23:26:16 <SpeedEvil> lardman: zbarcam + awk + ...
Nov 23 23:26:28 <lardman> and for decoding?
Nov 23 23:26:33 <lardman> zbarcam?
Nov 23 23:26:33 <qwerty12_N900> lardman: At least some IKEAs put on good entertainment: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article102699.ece
Nov 23 23:26:35 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 23 23:27:15 <lardman> SpeedEvil: same thing
Nov 23 23:27:18 <lardman> is zbar
Nov 23 23:27:20 <Dantonic> SpeedEvil, thanks so much I found the solution figured out how to enable ssh on the firewall
Nov 23 23:27:27 <lardman> qwerty12_N900: oh dear!
Nov 23 23:27:58 <lardman> London though, 'tis life so I hear
Nov 23 23:28:05 <qwerty12_N900> I know... I couldn't find a better news source
Nov 23 23:28:06 <SpeedEvil> lardman: _really_ simple. Get barcode, go beep. Prompt user to enter product name. Take product name, then when user hits enter, take pic with other camera.
Nov 23 23:28:17 <lardman> cool
Nov 23 23:28:17 <javispedro> Kill user.
Nov 23 23:28:35 <paroneayea> fighting with a t-mobile customer service provider trying to get her to tell me if "unlimited web" includes SSH :P
Nov 23 23:28:35 <lardman> qwerty12_N900: what do you take to school these days? M-16?
Nov 23 23:28:43 <SpeedEvil> lardman: this gives a barcode->product mapping - and those can then be looked up on my scraped list of tesco stuffs for scraped calories.
Nov 23 23:28:45 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N900, what the hell is up with the randomly bolded and capitalized words?
Nov 23 23:28:52 <GeneralAntilles> Is "MUGGED" an acronym or something over there?
Nov 23 23:29:12 <lardman> well it is the SUN!
Nov 23 23:29:14 <javispedro> *some clients may bold this*
Nov 23 23:29:18 <qwerty12_N900> GeneralAntilles: It's The Sun; don't ask...
Nov 23 23:29:27 <GeneralAntilles> paroneayea, bad plan.
Nov 23 23:29:38 <paroneayea> yeah
Nov 23 23:29:46 <GeneralAntilles> paroneayea, don't let them find out you have an N900 or they'll put you on one of those expensive PDA plans.
Nov 23 23:29:47 <SpeedEvil> lardman: so I - when it works - wave thing in front of scanner, enter 34g, and it adds 34*(caloriespergram) 34*fatpergram, ... to my daily totals.
Nov 23 23:30:06 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: note that this is the main reason anyone would buy/read THE SUN: http://www.page3.com/
Nov 23 23:30:22 <qwerty12_N900> (NSFW)
Nov 23 23:30:24 <SpeedEvil> lardman: they did something very cool the other day though
Nov 23 23:30:42 <lardman> SpeedEvil: so what are you inputting, # grammes?
Nov 23 23:31:02 <SpeedEvil> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/40th/2733114/The-Sun-launches-birthday-edition-21-miles-into-space.html
Nov 23 23:31:04 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, I see.
Nov 23 23:31:11 <SpeedEvil> lardman: from a scale
Nov 23 23:31:17 <SpeedEvil> lardman: while cooking/...
Nov 23 23:31:19 <lardman> ah ok
Nov 23 23:31:33 <SpeedEvil> (the above with the aid of people in #highaltitude)
Nov 23 23:31:40 <lardman> :)
Nov 23 23:31:48 <lardman> did you see that high altitude glider?
Nov 23 23:32:07 <lardman> http://members.shaw.ca/sonde/ very very cool :)
Nov 23 23:32:11 <SpeedEvil> lardman: ? Laurenceb's?
Nov 23 23:32:21 <SpeedEvil> ah yes - saw that.
Nov 23 23:33:09 <lardman> seeing the Sun reminds /me of what he was using to test mbarcode url lookups: http://emcons.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/keeley_280_399469a.jpg
Nov 23 23:34:22 <paroneayea> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=387181&postcount=4048
Nov 23 23:34:24 <SpeedEvil> lardman: has the flash scanner on http://en.barcodepedia.com/ ever worked for you? zbarcam worked on the same cam instantly
Nov 23 23:34:26 <paroneayea> looks like amazon is shipping
Nov 23 23:34:45 <lardman> SpeedEvil: never had a webcam to try with tbh
Nov 23 23:34:53 <SpeedEvil> ah
Nov 23 23:34:57 <lardman> and not tried on-device
Nov 23 23:35:18 <SpeedEvil> Does flash on the n900 even see the cameras?
Nov 23 23:35:24 <lardman> I was using Windows version of zbar to grab book barcodes while we were packing the other day though, worked well
Nov 23 23:35:41 <lardman> I have a feeling it doesn't, just from something I read
Nov 23 23:35:49 <lardman> but I can of course try, hang on a tick
Nov 23 23:35:49 <SpeedEvil> packing?
Nov 23 23:35:54 <SpeedEvil> Oh - were you moving?
Nov 23 23:36:05 <lardman> still are
Nov 23 23:36:14 <lardman> packing to decorate, then look at moving
Nov 23 23:36:17 <SpeedEvil> ah
Nov 23 23:37:46 <lardman> nah, no webcam found with N900
Nov 23 23:38:15 <paroneayea> GeneralAntilles: anyway, when I *did* ask about ssh, they told me that if the company "Essis Age" charged me for their services, they would not cover Essis Age's charges, but they would not themselves charge me for accessing the "Essis Age Website"
Nov 23 23:38:19 <paroneayea> which I thought was awesome
Nov 23 23:38:26 <paroneayea> and hilarious
Nov 23 23:38:36 <GeneralAntilles> paroneayea, nice.
Nov 23 23:38:45 <lardman> :)
Nov 23 23:39:31 <SpeedEvil> paroneayea: go to the forums or ... of your potential provider, and investigate
Nov 23 23:40:14 <lardman> gtk_container_foreach(appdata->scan_window_hbox, (GtkCallback)gtk_container_remove, appdata->scan_window_hbox);
Nov 23 23:40:17 <lardman> should that work?
Nov 23 23:40:33 <lardman> where appdata->scan_window_hbox in an HBox
Nov 23 23:40:39 <lardman> s/in/is
Nov 23 23:41:12 * SpeedEvil imagines if the n900 display could weigh items placed on the screen accurately.
Nov 23 23:41:18 * SpeedEvil suspects not.
Nov 23 23:41:29 <lardman> could do ocr of the scales though....
Nov 23 23:41:35 <GeneralAntilles> SpeedEvil, don't think the surface resistance is consistent enough.
Nov 23 23:41:46 <SpeedEvil> lardman: yeah - I was looking for that sort of thing
Nov 23 23:41:50 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: noe even close, no.
Nov 23 23:41:54 <derf> lardman: No, that won't work.
Nov 23 23:41:59 <SpeedEvil> lardman: 7 seg readers for v4l
Nov 23 23:41:59 <lardman> why not?
Nov 23 23:42:15 <derf> Because it's going to call the callback with the arguments in the wrong order.
Nov 23 23:42:23 <lardman> ah, the code, ok
Nov 23 23:42:36 <lardman> is it possible?
Nov 23 23:42:40 <lardman> somehow?
Nov 23 23:43:17 <lardman> actually, I can probably do it manually, so don't worry too much
Nov 23 23:43:20 <derf> You could write a small wrapper function that calls gtk_container_remove with the arguments in the right order.
Nov 23 23:43:27 <derf> Or, right, do it manually.
Nov 23 23:43:27 <lardman> yeah, ok
Nov 23 23:43:38 <lardman> hmm, the wonders of picking up code off the interweb....
Nov 23 23:46:11 <lardman> SpeedEvil: but yeah, should be reasonably easy to stick one of those together
Nov 23 23:46:48 <lardman> not that I know much about ocr, but have used some working correlation codes
Nov 23 23:46:55 <lardman> s/used/written
Nov 23 23:47:31 <lardman> and these were only for <10 pixel high chars, so for bigger stuff should work ok
Nov 23 23:47:33 <SpeedEvil> lardman: and yes, it's easy.
Nov 23 23:47:49 <lardman> cool
Nov 23 23:48:02 <SpeedEvil> lardman: but - in the same way that barcodes are easy to decode - zbarcam|awk means I probably will do it - ...
Nov 23 23:48:03 <derf> OCR for latin alphabets is a fairly solved problem.
Nov 23 23:48:23 <lardman> how should it be done?
Nov 23 23:48:25 <SpeedEvil> derf: I haven't seen good OCR for free on linux.
Nov 23 23:48:39 <lardman> I need to write my own
Nov 23 23:48:48 <SpeedEvil> derf: comparable with the program that came free with my scanner in 1997 that is.
Nov 23 23:48:54 <derf> SpeedEvil: Yes, no idea about open-source stuff.
Nov 23 23:49:08 <SpeedEvil> s/1997/1995/
Nov 23 23:49:08 <infobot> SpeedEvil meant: derf: comparable with the program that came free with my scanner in 1995 that is.
Nov 23 23:49:36 <derf> But it's not rocket science.
Nov 23 23:50:04 <SpeedEvil> derf: It is a very substantial body of code AIUI though.
Nov 23 23:50:10 <derf> Now, OCR for cursive/ideographic languages, that's something else.
Nov 23 23:50:27 <SpeedEvil> derf: and simply saying 'it's not rocket science' doesn't magically deliver several tens of thousands of lines of code.
Nov 23 23:50:47 <lardman> what's the general approach though?
Nov 23 23:50:54 <lardman> I guess not a correlation one?
Nov 23 23:50:57 <SpeedEvil> I'd also like - even pay - speech recognition - for linux.
Nov 23 23:51:09 <lardman> I've pushed that to extras-devel
Nov 23 23:51:15 <lardman> pocketsphinx
Nov 23 23:53:56 <SpeedEvil> Looks interesting.
Nov 23 23:54:09 <lardman> needs optification
Nov 23 23:54:28 <lardman> but the number test at least worked and recognised what I was saying
Nov 23 23:55:00 <lardman> I also stuck flite in for text -> speech
Nov 23 23:55:12 <lardman> but that needs a tweak as it won't output directly
Nov 23 23:55:15 <lardman> no idea why
Nov 23 23:55:21 <lardman> have to save to wav, then play that
Nov 23 23:55:37 <lardman> probably a simple pulseaudio issue I suppose
Nov 23 23:58:55 <Flandry> any debian pkg wizzes on atm?
Nov 23 23:59:10 <lardman> hmm, my widgets are still not appearing when I rotate :(
Nov 23 23:59:17 <lardman|home> re
Nov 23 23:59:41 <Flandry> is your evil twin here lardman?
Nov 24 00:00:07 <lardman|home> nah, my connection lag became very large
Nov 24 00:01:14 <Flandry> I've been looking at HAM and it uses "multiple lines" as the criterion for an extended description. I'm wondering why strlen isn't a simpler, better metric.
Nov 24 00:01:44 <Flandry> Especially because i changed it to strip newlines elsewhere :P
Nov 24 00:02:07 <lardman|home> lol
Nov 24 00:03:14 <Flandry> it does a string copy, strips initial and trailing whitespace, splits it into an array of lines, and then checks that there are more than one
Nov 24 00:03:21 <Flandry> i mean, is that really necessary? :P
Nov 24 00:05:47 <derf> lardman|home: Not usually correlation on images (though that is sometimes done).
Nov 24 00:06:21 <lardman|home> I have some rather small numbers I want to OCR
Nov 24 00:06:41 <derf> Usually you transform connected components into outlines or skeletons.
Nov 24 00:06:49 <lardman|home> ok
Nov 24 00:06:58 <lardman|home> and then how is the recog performed?
Nov 24 00:07:08 <derf> Basic template matching.
Nov 24 00:07:18 <lardman|home> using what metric though?
Nov 24 00:07:27 <derf> There's all kinds of metrics.
Nov 24 00:07:50 <derf> You've got a bunch of line segments, you can try to do a one-to-many matching, etc.
Nov 24 00:08:01 <lardman|home> connectedness?
Nov 24 00:08:19 <derf> You can take connectedness into account, sure.
Nov 24 00:08:23 <derf> Or you can just rely on position.
Nov 24 00:08:41 <lardman|home> angle then? or a 2d fft?
Nov 24 00:08:44 <lardman|home> or similar
Nov 24 00:08:47 <derf> Damaged text is often disconnected in places where the template would be connected.
Nov 24 00:08:54 <lardman|home> yep
Nov 24 00:09:03 <derf> The 2d FFT approach assumes a common sampling.
Nov 24 00:09:10 <derf> Which you generally don't have.
Nov 24 00:09:20 <derf> And if you want to recognize very small characters, you'll have significant aliasing problems.
Nov 24 00:09:26 <pupnik> some people here will be like pgrogramming terminator robots in 2015
Nov 24 00:09:50 <derf> But you can go a long ways just on position/orientation.
Nov 24 00:10:04 <pupnik> or now
Nov 24 00:10:07 <derf> There's also "shape context" and other similar approaches.
Nov 24 00:10:23 <derf> Which basically builds a histogram of the surrounding area, and uses earth mover's distance on that.
Nov 24 00:10:49 <lardman|home> hmm, I don't have much data to histogram though
Nov 24 00:11:12 <derf> You don't need much.
Nov 24 00:11:18 <derf> You build a separate histogram at every point on the outline.
Nov 24 00:12:03 <derf> It's similar to matching the line segments directly, but as the name implies, brings in slightly more non-local context.
Nov 24 00:12:13 <lardman|home> ok, but dropped pixels or blurred ones will interfere with that won't they?
Nov 24 00:13:03 <derf> Well, sure, but the idea is that the interference with the match to the correct template will be smaller than the penalty for a match to the wrong template.
Nov 24 00:13:56 <lardman|home> ok
Nov 24 00:14:00 <lardman|home> sounds interesting anyway
Nov 24 00:14:02 <Flandry> are you working on OCR lardman, or just curious?
Nov 24 00:14:25 <lardman|home> well I don't work on it, in fact I just need to post-process some shearography data
Nov 24 00:14:57 <crashanddie_> should we be worried? http://cms.web.cern.ch/cms/Media/CMSeye/cam4.html
Nov 24 00:15:00 <lardman|home> unfortunately it's stored in an avi, with a very small bit of text in the top left giving the freq - which is what I need to know for each frame
Nov 24 00:15:20 <derf> The main problems are not in the classifier, but in everything that goes on around it.
Nov 24 00:15:45 <Flandry> oh
Nov 24 00:15:46 <Flandry> fun
Nov 24 00:15:46 <lardman|home> hey crashanddie_
Nov 24 00:16:05 <lardman|home> derf: I wrote a correlation based ocr system, which works ok, but not great
Nov 24 00:16:08 <derf> I.e., figuring out where the lines of text are, breaking them into characters, including when characters are touching, figuring out where the word boundaries are...
Nov 24 00:16:12 <crashanddie_> o/ lardman|gone
Nov 24 00:16:15 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie_, if it's ending, I doubt we're going to notice it on the cam feed first. :D
Nov 24 00:16:28 <Flandry> crashanddie_: better call in the doom marines
Nov 24 00:16:32 <lardman|home> derf: ah that's easy in my case, I know the spacing and char widths are constant
Nov 24 00:16:36 <crashanddie_> GeneralAntilles, dunno, we might have been wrong about black holes all along
Nov 24 00:16:42 <derf> The best classifiers are still only going to get you 97-98% accuracy on printed text.
Nov 24 00:16:53 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie_, or here http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html ;)
Nov 24 00:17:05 <derf> But after that the results get fed into a language model.
Nov 24 00:17:06 <crashanddie_> GeneralAntilles, I know that one :)
Nov 24 00:17:13 <crashanddie_> GeneralAntilles, just saw it on slashdot 5 minutes ago
Nov 24 00:17:16 <lardman|home> that's fine, I know how the freqs should proceed, so can process the ocr'd text to correct it if it doesn't fit in
Nov 24 00:17:17 <derf> And there you can start doing very sophisticated things to improve results.
Nov 24 00:17:49 <derf> Anyway, I thought Google recently open-sourced some OCR engine.
Nov 24 00:18:05 <lardman|home> ideally I want to implement this in MATLAB
Nov 24 00:18:07 <derf> Dunno how good it is.
Nov 24 00:18:33 <crashanddie_> derf, it probably dials home and sends keywords of what you're scanning
Nov 24 00:18:36 <lardman|home> I'll have a look at your histogram/earth mover idea
Nov 24 00:18:51 <crashanddie_> "Hang on, why does the OCR app need socket.h?"
Nov 24 00:19:08 <derf> crashanddie_: The beauty of open source.
Nov 24 00:19:11 <derf> lardman|home: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_context
Nov 24 00:19:28 <crashanddie_> derf, the beauty of having everyone think you're contributing to Open Source
Nov 24 00:19:39 <crashanddie_> derf, newsflash: Chrome isn't Open Source
Nov 24 00:19:45 <derf> I ain't saying nothing about contributing.
Nov 24 00:19:53 <derf> I'm just saying you can get the source for their OCR engine.
Nov 24 00:20:03 <derf> You don't need to lecture me.
Nov 24 00:20:30 <crashanddie_> True, I just enjoy it :)
Nov 24 00:20:46 <derf> Yes, but I don't.
Nov 24 00:20:52 <derf> lardman|home: http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Research/Projects/CS/vision/shape/sc_digits.html has a Matlab demo.
Nov 24 00:20:53 <lardman|home> derf: cool, thanks
Nov 24 00:21:02 <derf> Don't know how useful it is.
Nov 24 00:21:11 <derf> (i.e., if it really includes all the code needed)
Nov 24 00:21:20 <lardman|home> I won't learn anything using someone else's code too ;)
Nov 24 00:21:22 <crashanddie_> GeneralAntilles, you need to start writing about OSX
Nov 24 00:21:26 <tadthebuilder> isnt chormium open source which is 90 percent of chrome?
Nov 24 00:22:18 <crashanddie_> GeneralAntilles, Because: Darwin book worth up to $100,000 found on shelf
Nov 24 00:22:25 <crashanddie_> tadthebuilder, the magic lies in those 10%
Nov 24 00:22:28 * Flandry wonders if using chromium and mercurial will make him go mad
Nov 24 00:23:13 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie_, shush.
Nov 24 00:23:16 <tadthebuilder> i use chrome from time to time. i know it means google knows what i do, rather them thn the govt haha
Nov 24 00:23:26 <crashanddie_> GeneralAntilles, I shall find you: http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20091119&t=2&i=14583449&w=450&r=2009-11-19T185021Z_01_GM1E5BH0FBH01_RTRRPP_0_MEXICO
Nov 24 00:23:54 <derf> Anyway, the Google OCR engine is Tesseract: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract_(software)
Nov 24 00:23:59 <derf> No idea what it uses internally.
Nov 24 00:24:24 <Flandry> i don't think Google developed that anyway
Nov 24 00:24:33 <Flandry> it's supposed to be pretty good iirc
Nov 24 00:24:40 <derf> Flandry: No, UNLV did.
Nov 24 00:24:40 <mikhas> it is
Nov 24 00:24:54 <lardman|home> hmm, I've looked at all the free ones a while back as I needed to scan some FORTRAN code in from an old thesis
Nov 24 00:25:01 <lardman|home> trying to remember which one I chose in the end
Nov 24 00:25:15 <crashanddie_> anyway
Nov 24 00:25:16 <crashanddie_> I'm out
Nov 24 00:25:20 <derf> Err, sorry, not UNLV, HP.
Nov 24 00:25:21 <lardman|home> cu
Nov 24 00:29:38 <lardman|home> bed time for me, thanks for the pointers derf
Nov 24 00:29:41 <lardman|home> night all
Nov 24 00:42:07 <Shapeshifter> So, is there a way to send SMS from the command line, or at least via dbus?
Nov 24 00:44:13 <crashanddie_> lol http://kurtgreenbaumisapussy.com/
Nov 24 00:44:35 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, Telepathy.
Nov 24 00:44:43 <GeneralAntilles> Should be a dbus recipe for it.
Nov 24 00:45:22 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: cool :)
Nov 24 00:45:40 <Shapeshifter> ahh. so telepathy handles all of the communication stuff?
Nov 24 00:45:57 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Nov 24 00:46:09 <Shapeshifter> brilliant.
Nov 24 00:46:34 <Shapeshifter> and I guess gps data can also be read out from the cli?
Nov 24 00:46:40 <Shapeshifter> via dbus.
Nov 24 00:47:25 <Shapeshifter> mh. where would I best find the documentation on this anyway? is there some official nokia-made-apps manual stuff somewhere? I find the wiki is not really that brilliant on specific info.
Nov 24 00:55:21 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, should be in the developer docs.
Nov 24 00:55:28 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, probably the wrong person to ask, though.
Nov 24 00:57:11 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: ahh, thanks.
Nov 24 00:59:50 <Shapeshifter> ah yes, liblocation.
Nov 24 01:00:02 <Shapeshifter> and someone has written a python thin client. nice.
Nov 24 01:00:45 <Shapeshifter> this is all very nice.
Nov 24 01:12:52 <timeless_mbp> help
Nov 24 01:12:59 <timeless_mbp> is there any reason i shouldn't use sbox in Mer?
Nov 24 01:26:45 <b-man17> hay qole :)
Nov 24 01:30:42 <qole> b-man17, hi!
Nov 24 01:35:48 <b-man17> qole: how´s your easy-debian port for the N900 going? :)
Nov 24 01:39:38 <qole> b-man17, I can't get the keyboard working in Xephyr LXDE!
Nov 24 01:39:53 <b-man17> hmm
Nov 24 01:40:52 <qole> The packages are in Fremantle Extras-devel, I'm just waiting for some more hackers to get the N900 to help me test
Nov 24 01:41:13 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12 knows the method.
Nov 24 01:41:22 * b-man17 is willing to test once he gets his N900 :)
Nov 24 01:41:29 <qole> (I'm on my N900 now, riding the bus home from work)
Nov 24 01:41:52 <qole> GeneralAntilles, tell me more!
Nov 24 01:41:54 <timeless_mbp> should /dev/null work in sbox? :(
Nov 24 01:42:16 <qole> (note I have Tab mapped now :)
Nov 24 01:42:18 <b-man17> possibly
Nov 24 01:42:38 <b-man17> i believe it´s linked to /dev on the host...
Nov 24 01:42:49 <timeless_mbp> something tried to:
Nov 24 01:43:09 <timeless_mbp> open("/dev/null", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_DIRECTORY)
Nov 24 01:43:24 <timeless_mbp> and got ENOTDIR
Nov 24 01:43:58 <qole> qwerty12 pointed out that windows must ask explicitly for input focus in Maemo 5, but I can't seem to get that working for me...
Nov 24 01:44:40 <lcuk> hey qole
Nov 24 01:44:41 <pupnik> .can we pipe gstreamer mpeg4 from camera to a network port
Nov 24 01:44:53 <qole> lcuk, hey!
Nov 24 01:45:15 <lcuk> yeah, you in your chroot and trying to get keyboard?
Nov 24 01:45:21 <b-man17> have you tryed checking if /dev/null is in your scratchbox dir?
Nov 24 01:45:49 <lcuk> does contacts pop up instead qole
Nov 24 01:45:53 <qole> lcuk, yes, trying to get keyboard on display :1
Nov 24 01:45:57 <b-man17> @timeless_mbp
Nov 24 01:46:21 <lcuk> yeah practically every toolkit has had to do some mudging on m5
Nov 24 01:46:59 <qole> lcuk, yeah I think I'm not grabbing the keyboard and I don't know how to do that from command line
Nov 24 01:47:18 <lcuk> its not so much grabbing the keyboard
Nov 24 01:47:32 <lcuk> lemme see if i can dig up the reason and code fixes put in place
Nov 24 01:47:41 <lcuk> then we can see if theres a console way
Nov 24 01:49:25 <qole> lcuk, I think it is XSetInputFocus() needing to be explicitly called...
Nov 24 01:49:59 <qole> Can you do that for a gtkWindow in python?
Nov 24 01:49:59 <lcuk> yeah, but someone else offered another suggestion at some point
Nov 24 01:50:45 <qole> The dead keyboard issue is the current showstopper for EasyDebian.
Nov 24 01:51:44 <qole> I can get everything else working (if you are willing to be a stylus jockey)
Nov 24 01:52:48 <qole> I even have a great idea for simulating the dashboard button on the top right corner in LXDE
Nov 24 01:56:40 * qole is flashing to sales firmware tonight!
Nov 24 01:57:16 <lcuk> qole, oooh
Nov 24 01:57:28 <lcuk> http://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-maemo-developers/qt/qt-maemo/commit/fbf22e64599b220cf95ca90d27d0eb6cdeaa91fe
Nov 24 01:57:32 <lcuk> qt caught the patch
Nov 24 01:58:09 <lcuk> but you are right its gonna be tough from within python, what app creates the root window for you? is it the python one
Nov 24 01:58:27 <qole> lcuk, I found that already... http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/re-mapping_the_n900_keyboard-001/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nemein_discussion_posts_page=1#0df75e68d5ab11deb701f9b9eeaa12ed12ed
Nov 24 01:59:02 <GeneralAntilles> qole, not a big upgrade.
Nov 24 01:59:20 <fernando_> so, uh, hi. I just got a N800. while playing with it I noticed the file manager auto discovered my SMB shares on my computer. thing is, it only displays the public folder, and not the home folder (which would need a login)
Nov 24 01:59:37 <lcuk> hehe
Nov 24 01:59:50 <fernando_> is there anywhere to type a login or something?
Nov 24 01:59:51 <qole> I dunno, write me a C app that opens a window and fullscreens+sets input focus, let me pass the window name as a parameter.
Nov 24 02:00:24 <Flandry> What's the community interface for development on app manager?
Nov 24 02:00:26 <lcuk> how do you inject yourself into the process?
Nov 24 02:00:33 <Flandry> garage, bug tracker...
Nov 24 02:00:36 <Flandry> ?
Nov 24 02:00:43 <qole> fernando_, no you cannot use the filemanager to access protected shares
Nov 24 02:00:56 <fernando_> I see. shame, but thanks!
Nov 24 02:01:38 <qole> lcuk, I use wmctrl to find the window ID, and the -parent param on Xephyr
Nov 24 02:02:50 <lcuk> gtk should have the fix in intrinsically
Nov 24 02:03:04 <lcuk> create an empty pygtk app?
Nov 24 02:03:15 <fernando_> okay, new question (:P), mime type associations in the file manager, is there a way to change those?
Nov 24 02:03:25 <fernando_> as in open all .avis with mplayer, etc
Nov 24 02:06:58 <qole> fernando_, dbus-switchboard http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=17757
Nov 24 02:07:21 <fernando_> thanks again!
Nov 24 02:08:16 <lcuk> fernando_, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=15194 qole oyu get around, in this thread too
Nov 24 02:08:53 <fernando_> defaults.list in /usr/share/applications? that sounds simpler :P
Nov 24 02:09:02 <lcuk> it doesnt work tho lol
Nov 24 02:09:14 <fernando_> baw, lol
Nov 24 02:09:23 <lcuk> :D
Nov 24 02:10:04 <lcuk> qole, not on unlimited 3g anymore?
Nov 24 02:14:56 <Flandry> ah it's on gitorious
Nov 24 02:15:06 <Flandry> that was so completely obvious...
Nov 24 02:15:29 <Flandry> not
Nov 24 02:23:44 <fernando_> is it kosher to set a password for "user" or should I just stick with "root" for SSH?
Nov 24 02:26:14 <GeneralAntilles> fernando_, stick with root.
Nov 24 02:26:20 <GeneralAntilles> fernando_, not sure what the status is right now.
Nov 24 02:26:34 <fernando_> alright, will do
Nov 24 02:27:31 <GeneralAntilles> fernando_, on Diablo it could cause certain boot scripts to fail.
Nov 24 02:27:38 <GeneralAntilles> ferdna, haven't tested it yet for Fremantle.
Nov 24 02:27:43 <fernando_> not messing with it then :P
Nov 24 02:28:09 <ferdna> GeneralAntilles, what is that?
Nov 24 02:28:19 <GeneralAntilles> ferdna, what is what?
Nov 24 02:28:22 <hotaru2k3> use public key auth, and disable root login over ssh
Nov 24 02:28:31 <GeneralAntilles> http://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames
Nov 24 02:28:38 <ferdna> i dont know, you tell me...
Nov 24 02:28:49 <fernando_> (wrong username highlight :P)
Nov 24 02:28:53 <GeneralAntilles> ferdna, what are you asking about?
Nov 24 02:28:57 <qole> lcuk, Canada only has 2.5 G for the N900
Nov 24 02:28:57 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, oops.
Nov 24 02:28:59 <GeneralAntilles> Sorry multitasking.
Nov 24 02:28:59 <fernando_> haha
Nov 24 02:29:07 <ferdna> hehehhe, cool... =)
Nov 24 02:30:33 <fernando_> haha, the N800 codename is Gagarin? awesome
Nov 24 02:30:36 * fernando_ sets device name
Nov 24 02:32:08 <iDialekt> I wonder when the north American AT&T 3g maemo device is coming?
Nov 24 02:34:04 <qole> iDialekt, I don't forsee an NAM version of the N900
Nov 24 02:34:26 <Flandry> we haven't seen FCC approval so: probably no time soon
Nov 24 02:34:32 <iDialekt> Neither do I. Maybe the next maemo device
Nov 24 02:35:02 <qole> I'm not looking forward to that device.
Nov 24 02:37:14 <qole> Capacitive screen means no stylus.
Nov 24 02:37:57 <chicks|> I really wish the n900 was usable on a network with decent 3G coverage in my area in the US
Nov 24 02:38:32 <fernando_> there will never be 3g coverage in my neck of the woods, michigan, so I particularly don't mind :P
Nov 24 02:39:40 <hotaru2k3> if you want decent 3g coverage in the us you have to go cdma instead of gsm
Nov 24 02:40:41 <chicks|> Yeah, that's why I have a crappy phone, it works on Verizon which actually has coverage at both my house and college, where as AT&T doesn't have 3G at my college and although it does at my house, for some reason inside the house I can't get AT&T signal.
Nov 24 02:41:36 <chicks|> Not to mention T-mobile just has poor coverage compared  to any of the other major providers.
Nov 24 02:42:28 <microlith> it wouldn't be so bad if verizon weren't cdma :/
Nov 24 02:42:49 <fernando_> the whole US phone market is kinda sucky, oh well. I'm fine with just using wifi
Nov 24 02:43:56 <pupnik> good call
Nov 24 02:44:06 <pupnik> haha pun
Nov 24 02:44:08 <chicks|> Yeah, i'll just stick with my n810 for now. I hope verizon getso ff of CDMA and on to something else by the time my contract ends in 1.5 years.
Nov 24 02:44:15 <fernando_> lol
Nov 24 02:44:32 <microlith> chicks|: if they go LTE like everyone else, we might actually have a worldwide standard
Nov 24 02:44:44 <fernando_> ah no, I get cool phones, I just don't use the data part :P
Nov 24 02:45:44 <iDialekt> Almost got a droid
Nov 24 02:46:00 <chicks|> microlith: that would be great, as their network is currently working amazingly for me, but the cost of getting tethering is way to expensive
Nov 24 02:46:02 <iDialekt> But couldn't ditch the apple Eco system
Nov 24 02:46:04 <iDialekt> :(
Nov 24 02:46:20 <iDialekt> Hard to pull away from the MobileMe and lifestyle of apple
Nov 24 02:46:26 <fernando_> :(
Nov 24 02:46:37 <microlith> my only problem is with nokiausa's failure of an ordering system
Nov 24 02:46:44 <microlith> otherwise I might have had my N900 this week
Nov 24 02:47:26 <iDialekt> I can't do tmobile . Not here
Nov 24 02:47:39 <iDialekt> AT&T is the best option for gsm here
Nov 24 02:47:44 <iDialekt> Verizon for CDMA
Nov 24 02:47:52 <GeneralAntilles> qole, Nokia caved to the popularity pressure.
Nov 24 02:48:00 <GeneralAntilles> qole, I can't believe they wouldn't go with Stantum.
Nov 24 02:48:01 <iDialekt> ?
Nov 24 02:48:08 <GeneralAntilles> Nor that they wouldn't ship both types of touchscreens.
Nov 24 02:48:23 <GeneralAntilles> Neither technology has an absolute advantage.
Nov 24 02:48:35 <GeneralAntilles> So it seems quite silly to choose one or the other and alienate other customers.
Nov 24 02:48:37 <GeneralAntilles> But oh well.
Nov 24 02:48:42 <microlith> what is Stantum?
Nov 24 02:48:49 <GeneralAntilles> Multitouch resistive.
Nov 24 02:48:53 <microlith> ahh
Nov 24 02:49:11 <fernando_> what about haptikos, wish that'd come back
Nov 24 02:49:16 <fernando_> lol vaporware
Nov 24 02:49:20 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Nov 24 02:53:57 <qole> GeneralAntilles, I would *love* a Stantum touchscreen device
Nov 24 02:54:51 <qole> Does anyone know how to make the N900 XChat notify the user?
Nov 24 02:55:24 <qole> flash the LED, make a noise, anything.
Nov 24 02:55:52 <fernando_> doesn't it minimize to tray (or notification area) (or whatever they call it on maemo 5)
Nov 24 02:56:15 <qole> no such thing on Maemo 5
Nov 24 02:57:08 <qole> OK there is such a thing but it must be non-standard (ooh what a surprise)
Nov 24 02:57:19 <fernando_> haha
Nov 24 02:57:45 <fernando_> root is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
Nov 24 02:57:51 <fernando_> whoops?
Nov 24 02:58:07 <pupnik> n900 direct cam stream
Nov 24 02:58:09 <b-man17> qole: i´m shure you could use a d-bus message ;)
Nov 24 02:58:26 <pupnik> for vlc / mplayer ... how?
Nov 24 02:58:26 <fernando_> nvm, worked now
Nov 24 02:58:34 <qole> fernando_, Yes, I just got that report. Stop it.
Nov 24 02:58:42 <fernando_> lol
Nov 24 02:59:03 <qole> pupnik, use VLC on N900
Nov 24 02:59:18 <lcuk> qole, i thought you enjoyed the helicopter trips for those sudo violators
Nov 24 02:59:19 <GeneralAntilles> qole, there's a notification area you can install in Extras.
Nov 24 02:59:28 <pupnik> nice fix on camera - pupnik report made into release maybe
Nov 24 02:59:30 <lcuk> no fun if you tell them over the internet
Nov 24 02:59:39 <GeneralAntilles> qole, either that or bribe qwerty12 to get a libnotify patch in.
Nov 24 02:59:39 <pupnik> how stream cam?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 24 03:00:00 2009