**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 28 02:59:56 2009 Nov 28 02:59:57 cehteh: ubuntu Nov 28 03:00:25 on debian it wors fine for me Nov 28 03:00:25 well except the usual documented bugs Nov 28 03:00:39 hmm.. or do could it be coz of compiz? Nov 28 03:00:45 likely Nov 28 03:01:20 the window is apparently called "xephyr on:2.0(ctrl+shift to grab mouse and keyboard) Nov 28 03:01:45 i started the server i know that.. but should it throw up an empty black screen? is my question Nov 28 03:03:16 Hi all Nov 28 03:03:53 normally or at least here xephyr has the usual X background pattern .. kindof weaved dots Nov 28 03:04:46 cehteh: even after switching compiz off "Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -kb & Nov 28 03:04:46 " when i run this.. i get the server window open but again a black screen? Nov 28 03:05:24 no idea maybe 'buntu patched the usual xserver pattern out? Nov 28 03:05:41 can you start any normal app inside? Nov 28 03:05:55 DISPLAY=:2 xeyes Nov 28 03:05:56 hmm... inside the server you mean? Nov 28 03:06:45 echo $DISPLAY Nov 28 03:06:45 :0.0 Nov 28 03:06:53 thats from my regular teminal Nov 28 03:06:53 DISPLAY=:2 xeyes Nov 28 03:06:57 exactly like that Nov 28 03:07:00 ok Nov 28 03:08:41 i see the cursor blinking on the next line and in the xpher server i see eyes... lol Nov 28 03:08:52 responding to my mouse movement? Nov 28 03:09:05 but still a black screen on the whole Nov 28 03:09:43 cursor blinking on the terminal where you started it? or inside the xephyr window? Nov 28 03:10:28 where i started it Nov 28 03:10:45 the n900 rocks Nov 28 03:10:45 woo for figuring out how to get the internet via my N900 over a usb cable from Linux! :) [using kppp from kde4 in this case, but that's a detail] Nov 28 03:11:17 now i just have to install qt for maemo : Nov 28 03:11:20 :) Nov 28 03:11:22 any news about the microphone problems? Nov 28 03:11:24 a web page aimed at sierra wireless customers running linux combined with t-mobile apn info combined with a couple of google searches and some trial+error got it working Nov 28 03:11:34 and GPS fix without net connection Nov 28 03:11:53 cehteh: my n900 mic is functional. (sep 3 preorder from nokiausa.com, shipped nov 24, arrived nov 25) Nov 28 03:12:03 germany here Nov 28 03:12:10 haven't gotten gps fix successfully yet, but only tried with a very obstructed view of the sky once Nov 28 03:12:15 preordered from a retailer so it will take a bit Nov 28 03:12:25 ah. Nov 28 03:12:27 i haven't played with my mic yet Nov 28 03:12:31 good luck. Nov 28 03:12:34 well some tell gps without net connection doesnt work at all Nov 28 03:12:43 simula_: just try to make a call and have someone else hear you? Nov 28 03:12:48 cehteh: any idea? is it normal or not? how do i run python scripts on it? i just want to check before i start.. hmm lets say a python hello world prg Nov 28 03:12:49 with network no problem Nov 28 03:13:01 hydroxide... i don't have a sim card in it... wifi baby :) Nov 28 03:13:04 cehteh: I'm guessing it will take longer to get a fix without having recently downloaded AGPS coordinates Nov 28 03:13:10 simula_: so? do a voip call :) Nov 28 03:13:17 wrapster: if xeyes display then xephyr is working .. just go on as the manual says Nov 28 03:13:19 jabber/google talk/sip/skype Nov 28 03:13:22 i haven't set up a voip account with it yet :) Nov 28 03:13:25 ah :) Nov 28 03:13:38 Hydroxide: they say 'not at all' means really not at all Nov 28 03:13:43 ah Nov 28 03:13:47 sitting for hours and get no fix Nov 28 03:13:51 wow Nov 28 03:13:56 cehteh: manual? Nov 28 03:14:02 that would be a no deal for me Nov 28 03:14:09 wrapster: SDK manual Nov 28 03:14:17 cehteh: ok Nov 28 03:14:19 anyway, I'm not too worried for myself since I have a flat-rate data plan... but i might test out of curiosity Nov 28 03:14:43 and for places out of reception, of course Nov 28 03:14:55 well if mine arrives someday and doesnt get a fix without sim card i send it back Nov 28 03:15:08 bck Nov 28 03:15:11 cehteh: most likely wifi would work too, but depending on use that might not be useful Nov 28 03:15:12 back Nov 28 03:15:21 when do you need gps most? .. i do when i am in a foreign country or in the wilderness Nov 28 03:15:35 Navigation on my old phones Nov 28 03:15:37 means no net or expensive roaming Nov 28 03:15:50 personally I use it for tracking map-based navigation within my home country :) Nov 28 03:15:53 so i want a reliable gps without net Nov 28 03:16:08 then again, my home country covers a much larger area than your home country, so I travel outside of it less often even for the same distances Nov 28 03:16:14 europe has more smaller countries Nov 28 03:16:17 yep Nov 28 03:16:39 it already turned me off that it doesnt have a compass .. Nov 28 03:16:54 I've been to a few of them. not germany yet though - maybe if munich wins their bid to host debconf11 Nov 28 03:17:15 but if gps doesnt get a fix that would be extremely disappointing Nov 28 03:17:17 cehteh: some of the rumors say it has one of those. I haven't tested. the official specs don't list an FM radio or the IrDA but it has those Nov 28 03:17:29 (compass) Nov 28 03:17:39 yeah there are some rumors Nov 28 03:17:45 Does the N900 have a compass? Nov 28 03:17:57 AakashPatel: that's what we're wondering about :) Nov 28 03:18:00 but there are also disassembled pics of it and looks like no one seen a compass chip yet Nov 28 03:18:04 Oh hah Nov 28 03:18:04 ah Nov 28 03:18:12 while fm reciever is on the chipset for free Nov 28 03:18:21 ya Nov 28 03:19:10 prolly just a little chip which could be soldered to gpio or i2c .. i really wonder why it doesnt have one Nov 28 03:20:24 has anyone installed build-essential on their n900? Nov 28 03:22:32 i think i found a good link for devs: http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/diablo.html Nov 28 03:27:20 anyone gotten a production n900 yet? Nov 28 03:27:44 hello Nov 28 03:28:43 Ave: many people Nov 28 03:29:24 I read many forums and people only bitch about continuous postpones Nov 28 03:29:38 even from official nokia store and operators Nov 28 03:29:42 i have one Nov 28 03:29:47 yaay Nov 28 03:29:48 pre-ordered early Nov 28 03:29:52 usa Nov 28 03:30:04 did you 810? Nov 28 03:30:07 have Nov 28 03:30:09 nopes Nov 28 03:30:23 I gotta get to try one .. Nov 28 03:30:34 Ave: even amazon US is shipping a few out a day Nov 28 03:30:40 I have android phone now and had 810, but I have no idea what to expect from n900 Nov 28 03:30:49 I have an android phone also Nov 28 03:31:13 judging form iamges alone, the 900 seems a bit bulky Nov 28 03:31:15 it is extremely sweet... i'm still putting it through it's paces Nov 28 03:31:37 Ave: what Android based phoen do you have rigth now Nov 28 03:32:03 Ave: it's smaller than an 810 I think Nov 28 03:32:06 htc hero Nov 28 03:32:16 o.O the sprint one or the other one? Nov 28 03:32:17 a bit underpowerd, but still nice Nov 28 03:32:26 Yeah, underpowered Nov 28 03:32:35 um its stock unlocked one, I think I bought mine from france Nov 28 03:32:41 (finland) Nov 28 03:32:48 http://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/HTC_HD2_Nokia_N900_keyboard_comparison_SlashGear_8-540x384.jpg Nov 28 03:32:56 man these messages http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=397199&postcount=4245 Nov 28 03:32:59 it is smaller than the tablets Nov 28 03:33:13 I found that the 810 hw keyboard had too little clearing at the top, it was hard to type Nov 28 03:33:21 hope 900 has more space there Nov 28 03:33:29 Ave: Tell him to quit bitching and he'll get it before that date Nov 28 03:33:34 i'm picking up the little keyboard pretty well :) Nov 28 03:33:40 On twitter people are posting they're shipping Nov 28 03:34:09 simula: Are the keys nice on the n900? Nov 28 03:34:13 like typing on it? Nov 28 03:34:20 * AakashPatel has wide thumbs Nov 28 03:34:26 the waiting must've been rough ..2 months! Nov 28 03:34:33 I would've exploded Nov 28 03:34:38 they seem pretty nice to me, but i'm not a big guy :) Nov 28 03:34:44 the space between the kayboard is the same, but the n900 has more definition in the keys Nov 28 03:34:59 AakashPatel: can you type on other thumb keyboards? Nov 28 03:35:10 Yeah Nov 28 03:35:17 hm well, I always ran into the screen with my thumbs, and I dont have particularly big hands Nov 28 03:35:21 i can type on the HTC Dream okay Nov 28 03:35:29 ok Nov 28 03:36:00 I find its easier to type on the n900 than the n810 Nov 28 03:36:12 well it does have 1 less row right? Nov 28 03:36:24 ya 3 rows Nov 28 03:36:42 btw, is there a dpad/home/back hw keys anywhere? Nov 28 03:36:48 I mean how are you supposed to run old legacy apps Nov 28 03:36:53 there are arrow keys Nov 28 03:36:53 if any .. Nov 28 03:37:19 and the spacebar is not in the middle and takes a bit to get used to Nov 28 03:37:46 spacebar is to the right of 'M' Nov 28 03:38:00 blasphemy Nov 28 03:38:11 its not bad. Nov 28 03:38:22 had to mod the keymap in 810 to get pipe and pgup/pgdown Nov 28 03:38:28 essential for screen/irssi .. Nov 28 03:38:33 well shell in general Nov 28 03:38:55 tab also Nov 28 03:39:10 I mean without resorting the the horrible CHR picker Nov 28 03:39:53 its extremely easy to send a txt or im message Nov 28 03:40:24 are all common IM standards supported now without 3rd party app? Nov 28 03:40:39 people use mostly msn Nov 28 03:41:05 i suppose at some point there will be Nov 28 03:41:51 even 810 had something, but in reality you had to install different app to get real world IM capabilities Nov 28 03:42:38 ya, it will be like a plugin, I suppsoe Nov 28 03:43:26 iirc its now using the telepathy framewoek Nov 28 03:43:46 or no was it just latest gnome/ubuntu reelase switching away from pidgin .. Nov 28 03:44:04 too many things going on Nov 28 04:03:27 http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2800mAh-Extended-Battery-for-Nokia-5800-BL-5J-BL5J_W0QQitemZ370293304993QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20091120?IMSfp=TL0911201610001r26 if we only had replacement back cover.. Nov 28 04:07:55 Arkenoi: we'd have a really thick phone then Nov 28 04:08:32 Arkenoi: I'm sure an extended battery for N900 will come out soon enough if there is demand for it Nov 28 04:09:05 the htc hero has same thing going on, someone sells a custom extended battery AND custom back cover Nov 28 04:09:12 but the outside dimensions arent changed Nov 28 04:09:26 the back cover is just slightly thinner Nov 28 04:09:49 haha Nov 28 04:10:37 due to thicker battery, obviously Nov 28 04:10:45 you get few hundred mAh more .. Nov 28 04:11:12 that battery on eBay is double the capacity of the original Nov 28 04:11:15 so that's pretty good Nov 28 04:11:31 is it really Nov 28 04:11:34 yeah Nov 28 04:11:45 you can buy most anything from eg dealextreme, but you'll get whatever .. Nov 28 04:11:49 the original battery is 1320mAh Nov 28 04:12:10 haha Nov 28 04:12:15 you may be right Nov 28 04:14:43 if the battery is ~ twice the size, then why not Nov 28 04:14:55 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22691 Nov 28 04:14:57 quite cheap huh Nov 28 04:15:10 and they have worldwide free shipping, thats insane, really .. Nov 28 04:16:21 I've bought one cree high power led lamp from there, pretty nice quality for the price (about 10 euros) Nov 28 04:16:46 I felt sick due to the fact that they ship everything from hong kong in airplanes all over the world ... Nov 28 04:17:31 well basically they ship so much stuff that it doesn't cost them a lot to ship any individual product Nov 28 04:17:45 Ave, telepathy-extras is in Extras-devel Nov 28 04:18:08 lpotter, the N900 has more space above the keyboard than the N810 Nov 28 04:18:23 sjgadsby has a comparison shot up on flickr. Nov 28 04:18:29 yeah I know they ship insane amount of stuff, but still Nov 28 04:18:50 sometimes people order <1 dollar items just for kicks Nov 28 04:19:17 yay more space! Nov 28 04:19:25 nokia did SOMETHING right atleast! Nov 28 04:19:39 The N900 keyboard has great feel. Nov 28 04:20:18 awesome Nov 28 04:20:26 Though, honestly, I still prefer the fullscreen keyboard coming from nearly 3 years with an N800. Nov 28 04:21:05 screen keyboard makes interactive shells tough Nov 28 04:21:07 but there still is osd kb in 900? Nov 28 04:21:15 stupid canola2, can't update it on my n800 :-( Nov 28 04:21:17 like mutt, vim, and irssi Nov 28 04:21:45 Ave, worst part of Maemo 5 is all of the rough edges they need to smooth out to get it up to par featurewise with something like S60 for phone use. Nov 28 04:22:21 Per-contact ringtones, voice dialing, caller announcement, profile customization, etc. Nov 28 04:22:34 As a tablet it's great, though. Nov 28 04:22:44 sounds harsh Nov 28 04:22:57 well as a tablet, I like tne 810 even if its a bit underpowered Nov 28 04:23:07 I got it customized to my liking Nov 28 04:23:13 N900 aint underpowered. ;) Nov 28 04:23:33 Lol its a besat Nov 28 04:23:33 beast Nov 28 04:23:43 * AakashPatel drools at the specs Nov 28 04:23:48 It's particularly nice being able to play back mostly anything from my UPnP mediaserver. Nov 28 04:24:17 it is a balanced lightweight sports coupe for me Nov 28 04:24:19 ugh Nov 28 04:24:28 after dicking around with this damn zimbra crap for hours i finally got it working Nov 28 04:24:31 wtf Nov 28 04:24:38 i was about to switch to ms server and exchange Nov 28 04:25:02 * Myrtti stares at the application manager of her n800 with distaste Nov 28 04:25:02 Probably more MX-5 than Z4 M, though. Nov 28 04:25:02 Macer: I thought ZIMBRA WAS AWESOME Nov 28 04:25:09 to me a monster is something that consumes lots of energy Nov 28 04:25:13 stupid bloody thing Nov 28 04:25:19 pupnik: its worth it lol Nov 28 04:25:24 feed it all the power it wants Nov 28 04:25:31 ever ride in a mx5? Nov 28 04:25:32 GAN900: also 720p h264 video? Nov 28 04:25:36 Myrtti, really wish we had a couple of interested UI hackers for that thing. Nov 28 04:25:42 how about 1080p :0 Nov 28 04:25:44 id like to try one for a few days Nov 28 04:25:46 that really needs hw assistance/gpu offloading Nov 28 04:25:53 AakashPatel: it is when it's running Nov 28 04:26:00 it totally sucks to set up when you have problems Nov 28 04:26:10 which really my major problem was the goddamn godaddy ssl cert Nov 28 04:26:12 Ave, MPEG4 is doable, built-in stumbles with the higher quality h.264 profiles. Nov 28 04:26:29 I have yet to see a pc that doesnt Nov 28 04:26:33 i thought we had a media engine folr that Nov 28 04:26:36 There's a NEON optimized decoder floating around. Nov 28 04:26:45 in hadware Nov 28 04:26:49 DSP handles video. Nov 28 04:26:49 not powervr Nov 28 04:26:54 my netgem stb decodes absolutely everything h264 without a hiccup, but it has dedicated hw Nov 28 04:26:55 GAN900: it told me I have problems, but didn't give any suggestions how to fix any Nov 28 04:26:58 and its linux based too Nov 28 04:26:58 ok Nov 28 04:27:06 HAEt Nov 28 04:27:16 Myrtti, apt-get to the rescue! (?) Nov 28 04:27:27 the package manager is fail all around Nov 28 04:27:34 root shell and apt-get wins, every time Nov 28 04:28:05 Ave, except for the fact that the cache is on rootfs by default. ;) Nov 28 04:28:13 Ave: we should've evolved past that ages ago Nov 28 04:28:16 I have many problems, I wonder if the package manager knows about those Nov 28 04:28:23 hrm Nov 28 04:28:33 to get to consumer markets Nov 28 04:28:43 by the geeks, for the geeks, never forget Nov 28 04:28:45 not just for us geeks Nov 28 04:28:55 fuck that Nov 28 04:29:08 FGBG? Nov 28 04:29:14 I suppose nokia has, or should have, some usability/ui experts in staff Nov 28 04:29:21 apt-get install --reinstall microphone :) Nov 28 04:29:22 the sound in n900 is loud like n96 or n73 music edition ? Nov 28 04:29:55 Ave, they do, they have funny ideas about stuff sometimes, however. Nov 28 04:30:09 the sound in n900 is loud like n96 or n73 music edition ? Nov 28 04:30:27 you can actually buy a megaphone as addon Nov 28 04:30:45 a Nokia©® one Nov 28 04:30:46 it is a good speakerphone volume Nov 28 04:30:49 raz955, I can only compare to my 5800 and N800 Nov 28 04:30:57 It's louder than both. Nov 28 04:31:28 man winter Nov 28 04:31:42 it just doesnt count wikthout snow Nov 28 04:32:01 GAN900 : N900 Louder than 5800 ? Nov 28 04:32:20 he just said that Nov 28 04:32:21 raz955, yes. Nov 28 04:32:39 Louder than most Apple laptops, too. Nov 28 04:32:49 think of another question Nov 28 04:32:57 pupnik, my thin Florida bload disagress with you. Nov 28 04:33:00 ohnoes ... more disco in public transportation :P Nov 28 04:33:01 * GAN900 is cold. Nov 28 04:33:10 GNV900 : ok nice Nov 28 04:33:21 I watched the multitask demo from youtube, was fairly impressive Nov 28 04:33:32 how much does the 900 have memory? Nov 28 04:33:35 actual ram Nov 28 04:33:51 256MB Nov 28 04:33:51 256 Nov 28 04:34:00 http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n900-2917.php Nov 28 04:34:05 Plus 768MB of swap Nov 28 04:34:06 huh only .. Nov 28 04:34:17 it is directly on the cpu chip so dont whine, no change possible Nov 28 04:34:20 Which it generally uses to good effect. Nov 28 04:34:26 the phone very slowly Nov 28 04:34:32 # Large and heavy Nov 28 04:34:38 # No voice recorder, no MMS, and no handwriting recognition Nov 28 04:34:42 Ave, find me another OMAP3 device with more. kthxbye ;) Nov 28 04:34:49 # Outdated camera interface and features Nov 28 04:34:53 cehteh, false. Nov 28 04:34:56 I mean only that much, consiering the multitas capabilities Nov 28 04:35:03 voice recorder should be trivial by 3rd party Nov 28 04:35:21 suppose much shared mem and a sane swap algo Nov 28 04:35:29 linux Nov 28 04:35:37 2.6 kernel? Nov 28 04:35:40 I suppose Nov 28 04:35:43 cehteh, it's a PoP which is purchased separately and attached as part of the fab process. Nov 28 04:35:59 http://code.google.com/p/compcache/ << anyone with the actual phone may try to port that there Nov 28 04:35:59 2.6.28 Nov 28 04:36:15 Camera works great. Nov 28 04:36:32 nitin is working/planning on compressed swap on the backing device too Nov 28 04:36:54 i used that on my laptop and it increased performance considerably Nov 28 04:37:02 and the device's size and weight feels appropriate considering that what you're getting is a little laptop, not a phone. Nov 28 04:37:14 GAN900: beagleboard has nore if you count the nand flash! Nov 28 04:37:27 really, no Nov 28 04:37:39 Ave, Beagle and N900 have the same PoP. ;) Nov 28 04:37:52 surprising Nov 28 04:38:06 2Gb/2Gb Nov 28 04:38:08 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32105 cool Nov 28 04:38:27 mmm beagleboard Nov 28 04:38:29 * AakashPatel has one Nov 28 04:39:11 raz955, if you want the N900 just to use as a phone, you probably want to use something else. Nov 28 04:39:12 can anyone please report me the value of /proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode on the actual device? Nov 28 04:39:38 GAN900++ Nov 28 04:39:53 raz955, however, if you want a laptop that fits in your pocket and also has phone functionality, then this is the device for you. Nov 28 04:40:02 and if you dont know what that means..n900 isnt for you Nov 28 04:40:02 haha Nov 28 04:40:52 very funny Nov 28 04:40:59 :D Nov 28 04:41:03 cehteh, 0. Nov 28 04:41:30 and the filesystems are mounted with commit=1 iirc Nov 28 04:41:35 Iphone 3GS Better :) Nov 28 04:41:42 LOL Nov 28 04:41:49 raz955: now THATS funny Nov 28 04:42:04 the true is very funny :) Nov 28 04:42:07 you right Nov 28 04:42:07 swappiness is 100 Nov 28 04:42:11 o.o Nov 28 04:42:15 raz955: you're srs? Nov 28 04:42:18 raz955 is back? Nov 28 04:42:22 sounds like excessive writes to the nand Nov 28 04:42:45 raz955, having used both devices rather extensively, both of them cater to different audiences. Nov 28 04:42:58 cehteh, Ew Nov 28 04:43:01 er Nov 28 04:43:02 the buildin flash isnt replaceable or? Nov 28 04:43:14 32GB is a lot of room for wear leveling. Nov 28 04:43:18 i mean not even not by service Nov 28 04:43:24 laptop is slightly broad claim sconsidering that you cant run everything a small real x86 laptop would Nov 28 04:43:27 well only if you have a lot free Nov 28 04:43:48 well i think the keyboard in n900 not comfortable and unnecessary Nov 28 04:43:49 I guess the sony vaio P ultraportable comes closest at that Nov 28 04:43:51 Ave: MOSTLY everything is good enough lol Nov 28 04:43:56 yeah in reality Nov 28 04:43:58 if you use it frequently like video and swapping mp3's then not Nov 28 04:43:58 Virtual Qwerty is better Nov 28 04:44:00 raz955: have you useed it? Nov 28 04:44:01 raz955: that's your opinion, honestly Nov 28 04:44:04 hell I have everything I need in n810 and android atm Nov 28 04:44:07 Even if not, the N810 had fairly similar swap arrangements and I've not heard of any wearout issues. Nov 28 04:44:13 n900 would suffice too, I guess Nov 28 04:44:17 microlith: Nov 28 04:44:36 AskahPatel : no but i used N97 the keyboard not comfortable Nov 28 04:44:36 i dont even think he's used a n900 Nov 28 04:44:36 AakashPatel: this much is obvious Nov 28 04:44:39 raz955: N97...you guess it...IS NOT the n900 Nov 28 04:44:44 raz955, it has a virtual input, too. Nov 28 04:44:46 but its the same keyboard Nov 28 04:44:55 well if i ever receive mine .. the gps and the microphone works i may try to make it little less write happy :P Nov 28 04:44:55 raz955, not even close. Nov 28 04:44:59 * AakashPatel gives raz955 a cookie or being an idiot Nov 28 04:45:06 raz955: Bull shit Nov 28 04:45:06 the buttons very small Nov 28 04:45:09 Do you have eyes Nov 28 04:45:17 N900's keyboard is SO much better than the N97's. Nov 28 04:45:24 ok 5800 better Nov 28 04:45:27 Says a man Nov 28 04:45:28 virtual keyboard Nov 28 04:45:31 taht actually HAS an n900 Nov 28 04:45:47 raz955, you know the real problem don't you. fucking thing isn't available in red. Nov 28 04:45:58 raz955: have a lollipop Nov 28 04:45:59 hahaha Nov 28 04:46:00 * lcuk wants a red n900 Nov 28 04:46:03 lcuk: a red one would go faster Nov 28 04:46:08 anyway Nov 28 04:46:09 indeed Nov 28 04:46:09 zoom zoom Nov 28 04:46:10 Ave, well, I showed the N900 to a bunch of Android hackers at the Florida Linux show and very nearly instantly converted all 6 of them. ;) Nov 28 04:46:19 you just jealous that you dont have N95 8GB Like me Nov 28 04:46:23 GAN900: haha im doing it right now Nov 28 04:46:24 GAN900: meh! Nov 28 04:46:26 AHAHA ! sucker Nov 28 04:46:26 pink for you Myrtti Nov 28 04:46:28 ? Nov 28 04:46:28 * AakashPatel looks down at his ADP1 Nov 28 04:46:52 Ave, and Maemo devices have long since obsoleted laptops for me. Nov 28 04:46:55 raz955: the door, it is that way Nov 28 04:47:05 I ♥ my 11" vaio Nov 28 04:47:08 nuff said Nov 28 04:47:11 lol Nov 28 04:47:17 :O Nov 28 04:47:19 anyway Nov 28 04:47:22 I'll prolly get n900 eventually, but I have to get my hands on one first Nov 28 04:47:23 raz955, trolling is not a productive sport here. :) Nov 28 04:47:27 Myrtti, someone nicked your thing Nov 28 04:47:28 http://paste.ubuntu.com/329972/ ♥ Nov 28 04:47:33 Ave: push just buy one Nov 28 04:47:39 no way jose Nov 28 04:47:43 * AakashPatel did Nov 28 04:47:44 :0 Nov 28 04:47:45 I bought n810 blind Nov 28 04:47:55 Myrtti, gulp Nov 28 04:48:11 myrtti is screwed Nov 28 04:48:12 You are about to do something potentially harmful Nov 28 04:48:12 To continue type in the phrase ‘Yes, do as I say!’ Nov 28 04:48:19 try aptitude too, it resolves dependencies better .. Nov 28 04:48:21 "no way" Nov 28 04:48:26 if its available, I forget Nov 28 04:48:32 incompatible encoding LOL Nov 28 04:48:44 lcuk: what did you type after the end quote o.O Nov 28 04:48:47 Ave: i'm not an idiot, you kniw Nov 28 04:49:08 capcitive or resitive what better ? Nov 28 04:49:15 Myrtti: did I say you were .. Nov 28 04:49:16 depends Nov 28 04:49:22 depends in what ? Nov 28 04:49:32 Myrtti, SDK repo and Extras-devel are dangerous. Nov 28 04:49:42 raz955: personal preference Nov 28 04:49:44 ctrl-c and i'm not 'screwed' anymore Nov 28 04:49:45 yeah Nov 28 04:49:47 raz955, i look forward to using the high resolution screen on my n900 Nov 28 04:49:54 microlith: I didnt wanna say taht cuz i know he's gonna say somehting stupid back Nov 28 04:49:56 lol Nov 28 04:49:58 and writing and drawing my ideas Nov 28 04:50:03 AakashPatel: then why give him attention? Nov 28 04:50:04 Myrtti: bah, I meant regarding the to-be-removed packages Nov 28 04:50:08 Ave, the N900 is a much better device than the N810. Nov 28 04:50:13 it better be! Nov 28 04:50:17 microlith: its like i have to make sure stupid people are stupid lol Nov 28 04:50:18 nokias last hope Nov 28 04:50:22 know they are* Nov 28 04:50:42 Ave: *shrug* Nov 28 04:50:55 Ave, yeah, right, with their 40% share of the smartphone market. Nov 28 04:50:58 Myrtti, you in the uk nowadays? coming to long weekend? Nov 28 04:51:10 GAN900: probably didn't even realise i had them Nov 28 04:51:12 running symbian, and its massive app list Nov 28 04:51:29 Apple and Android hardly matter compared to Nokia's volumel Nov 28 04:51:30 having tried N97, I'm not at all sold Nov 28 04:51:32 lcuk: back in Finnie until date x Nov 28 04:51:33 GAN900: what IRC client are you using? Nov 28 04:51:38 XChat Nov 28 04:51:44 mmm Nov 28 04:51:45 where abouts? Nov 28 04:51:52 * AakashPatel cant wait to use XChat on an n900 Nov 28 04:51:57 Ave, I agreep, but sales numbers speak volumes. Nov 28 04:51:59 xchat works Nov 28 04:52:03 lcuk: tampere Nov 28 04:52:17 is libsdl supported by nokia or maemo? Nov 28 04:52:19 cool - literally Nov 28 04:52:22 Myrtti, going to Barcelona? Nov 28 04:52:30 Flandy, silly question. Nov 28 04:52:35 Maemo is Nokia Nov 28 04:52:57 N900 VS N95 8GB , ( N95 8GB HAVE Better Camera , Sound ) Thats improtant ! Nov 28 04:52:59 um that's not what they told me :P Nov 28 04:53:01 "the community" is the second word you were looking for. ;) Nov 28 04:53:08 and, um, Nokia I believe. Nov 28 04:53:11 even so, I still feel that future mobile wars are fought between android, maemo and apple Nov 28 04:53:18 raz955: SHUT THE FUCK UP Nov 28 04:53:22 raz955, never had one Nov 28 04:53:22 symbian is yesterdays news Nov 28 04:53:22 GAN900: did ask my boss, but doubt it Nov 28 04:53:24 raz955, first warning. :) Nov 28 04:53:31 Myrtti, :( Nov 28 04:53:35 but ive also never hada camrea i code up and do stuff with either Nov 28 04:53:36 GN900 you @ ? Nov 28 04:53:53 Ave, Android rather distresses me. Nov 28 04:53:56 gan is god unfortunately Nov 28 04:54:05 :D Nov 28 04:54:13 GAN900: On android, the "multitasking" is a bit unintuitive, the way you swtich apps Nov 28 04:54:15 AakashPatel: chill Nov 28 04:54:22 microlith: *deep breaths* Nov 28 04:54:30 * lcuk sleeps Nov 28 04:54:31 Java irks me, but other than that the google offering is pretty solid platform that has almost everything (including the evil) Nov 28 04:54:34 every one here can kiss my pussy Nov 28 04:54:35 Ave, it plays at being an open platform but isn't anything of the sort. Nov 28 04:54:44 okay, someone ban him Nov 28 04:54:56 wow "BAN" Nov 28 04:55:00 please dont do that Nov 28 04:55:09 im "really" need this room lol Nov 28 04:55:22 well i'm trying to figure out what i would do to add code to libsdl. I have the source package but where should i look? Nov 28 04:55:24 you might wanna join #english also Nov 28 04:55:33 dont know if maemo is any more open, it too, has black boxes (like dsp, gps, booatloaders, whatnot) Nov 28 04:55:40 so a duck walked into a bar Nov 28 04:55:48 ave it has black boxes, sure Nov 28 04:55:57 just like every circuit board has chips Nov 28 04:56:00 Thats expected :) Nov 28 04:56:02 android has its shady areas too Nov 28 04:56:05 but we are free to build the board how we like Nov 28 04:56:14 and use any language or toolkit to make what we need Nov 28 04:56:21 well android has been ported to n810 as well Nov 28 04:56:22 lol android has its shady areas... Nov 28 04:56:24 why not n900 .. Nov 28 04:56:36 someone will do it, no doubt Nov 28 04:56:36 Avi, it has some compatability with desktop Linuxes and vaguely open governance. Nov 28 04:56:39 Does the radio and such work? Nov 28 04:56:46 on the n810 port? Nov 28 04:56:46 whole of it in the shade of google Nov 28 04:56:59 almost nothing works, its mostly proof of concept Nov 28 04:57:07 Ave, because I don't want that evil Google Java shit on my device. Nov 28 04:57:29 yeah it is a bit nasty, but I dont really care, its nice from user perspective Nov 28 04:57:32 and I can code apps for it Nov 28 04:57:42 maemo is nicer in many respects,for sure Nov 28 04:57:52 Android imo is meant just to be a phone Nov 28 04:57:57 On a phone* Nov 28 04:57:59 it is Nov 28 04:57:59 Maemo 5 kicks its ass, though. ;) Nov 28 04:58:07 android is basically a winmo replacement Nov 28 04:58:16 that alone justifies its existance Nov 28 04:58:18 maemo is like you want a UMPC that makes calls lol Nov 28 04:58:28 Ave: people try to do soem crazy shit with it lol Nov 28 04:59:01 we'll see about that in few years time Nov 28 04:59:03 sigh Nov 28 04:59:19 I eargerly wait what happens in the device and app space on coming years Nov 28 04:59:39 i really have no idea where to look for this Nov 28 04:59:44 it's not on gitorious Nov 28 04:59:59 Ave: see about what? lol Nov 28 05:00:00 i got lost Nov 28 05:00:11 Android is worse than WinMon and iPhone OS to me. Nov 28 05:00:16 O.o Nov 28 05:00:29 At least those platforms are upfront about not being about. Nov 28 05:00:55 yeah it's a bit hypocritical Nov 28 05:00:55 Android is billed as an open OS but is really nothing of the sort. Nov 28 05:01:03 The core OS is open Nov 28 05:01:09 But all the stuff that makes it useful is not lol Nov 28 05:01:13 exactly Nov 28 05:01:14 It locks you into its toolkits, its language, and Google. Nov 28 05:01:26 Open isn't just about source. Nov 28 05:01:38 It's also about governance. Nov 28 05:01:48 Google is REALLY shady about android Nov 28 05:01:54 that's why i'm so down on it--i spent quite a while enthused about it before i realized the scam Nov 28 05:01:58 upcoming feature and stuff like that Nov 28 05:02:21 Flandry: you should have seen how many dev's were angry about how 2.0 was released Nov 28 05:02:29 it wasn't until the C&D thing hit that i realized how pointless Android is without google Nov 28 05:02:34 android is not 100% libre by any means, but nothing is Nov 28 05:02:35 2-3 weeks before an actual device launch Nov 28 05:02:38 and therefore how unopen it is Nov 28 05:02:39 and they release the sdk Nov 28 05:02:50 HYE GUISE FINISH UP Nov 28 05:02:56 maemo is "more free" if you want to define it like that Nov 28 05:03:04 Yeah. Nov 28 05:03:43 Ave, I'm not open source zealot, but Android scares me. Nov 28 05:04:30 I guess Nov 28 05:04:36 The platform is much to eager to hand over controll to carriers and device manufacturers. Nov 28 05:04:47 Lol I just want something that they actually communicate with you Nov 28 05:05:04 Iphone is locked more than android Nov 28 05:05:06 The N900 is the first really open phone. Nov 28 05:05:14 aha, what about neo freerunner! Nov 28 05:05:21 Ave, sure, but Apple doesn't lie about that. Nov 28 05:05:23 it even runs debian Nov 28 05:05:24 *chuckle* Nov 28 05:05:27 *mainstream Nov 28 05:05:27 Ave: Freerunner blahah Nov 28 05:05:28 nobody ever claimed iphone was open though :P Nov 28 05:05:37 and that isn't a piece of shit. Nov 28 05:05:38 it was open, and phone Nov 28 05:05:46 fine add parameters then! Nov 28 05:05:47 lol Nov 28 05:05:49 GAN900 open phone, how? Nov 28 05:06:07 Freerunner can't even manage to run Mer decently. ;) Nov 28 05:06:07 the only TRUE open phone Nov 28 05:06:10 is the openmoko devices lol Nov 28 05:06:52 eie, it's the first phone you can pretty much do whatever you want with without having to fight for the ability to do so. Nov 28 05:06:59 N900 cheap features Nokia suck , only N95 8GB Nov 28 05:07:14 raz955: dont make me tell you again Nov 28 05:07:19 AakashPatel: shh! Nov 28 05:07:24 raz955: you're a broken record Nov 28 05:07:25 * AakashPatel hits himself in the face Nov 28 05:08:02 augh wtf are there no maemo maintainers in the control file Nov 28 05:08:38 n900 its like shit , two of them suck HAHAH Nov 28 05:08:40 GAN900 like what things? Nov 28 05:08:46 Is there no op's here? Nov 28 05:08:53 s/Is/Are/ Nov 28 05:08:54 AakashPatel meant: Are there no op's here? Nov 28 05:09:10 LOL Nov 28 05:09:21 Thank you GAN900 :D Nov 28 05:09:46 Now you're bannin people "on the fly" Nov 28 05:09:50 I think that's the first IRC ban from an N900 Nov 28 05:09:52 * AakashPatel had to say that Nov 28 05:09:59 *sigh* Nov 28 05:10:04 hey, it's one for the history books Nov 28 05:10:09 Write it down! Nov 28 05:10:15 We're making history here, people! ;) Nov 28 05:10:32 * microlith cheers? Nov 28 05:10:41 eie, like boot Debian. Nov 28 05:10:48 first, just now? that is historic Nov 28 05:10:58 .. and emacs on a smartphone? :) Nov 28 05:11:01 but he left by his own hand .. Nov 28 05:11:26 Ave, ah, damn, I have join/part spam turned off here. ;) Nov 28 05:11:28 * microlith ponders ruby-based mobile applications Nov 28 05:11:45 [07:09] -!- mode/#maemo [+o GAN900] by ChanServ Nov 28 05:11:45 [07:09] -!- raz955 [n=raz955@77.126.66.106] has left #maemo [] Nov 28 05:11:48 pretty funny .. Nov 28 05:11:51 "eep" Nov 28 05:12:31 I say we DDoS him to death Nov 28 05:12:37 no Nov 28 05:12:38 >.< Nov 28 05:12:41 GAN900 someone said its like a laptop, wonder if its really is Nov 28 05:12:45 you may do so, but only using n900's Nov 28 05:12:50 I'm nto gonna waste my time microlith dont worry haha Nov 28 05:12:53 it has the oompah! Nov 28 05:13:27 * GAN900 still has pie from Thanksgiving to finish. Nov 28 05:13:31 What a burden. Nov 28 05:13:35 * AakashPatel didnt get any pie Nov 28 05:13:39 email me some Nov 28 05:13:51 ugh Nov 28 05:13:52 eie, Maemo devices have completely replaced laptops for me. Nov 28 05:13:53 about time Nov 28 05:13:54 No! Nov 28 05:13:58 * GAN900 hoards. Nov 28 05:13:58 i think i'm just about done with this friggin zimbra server Nov 28 05:14:05 and now it's runnign in debian instead of centos Nov 28 05:14:14 which i honestly don't know if that's a good or bad thing :) Nov 28 05:14:31 lol SDL sets a max of 32 joysticks Nov 28 05:15:03 ohnoes, no multiplayer pong Nov 28 05:15:32 only if multi <= 32 Nov 28 05:15:42 or actually >= Nov 28 05:15:45 massive multiplayer pong :) Nov 28 05:15:58 massive multiplayer online pong Nov 28 05:15:59 the next big thing, maybe Nov 28 05:16:03 mmorpg is getting so old Nov 28 05:16:06 mmoping the world Nov 28 05:16:21 retrogaming is the shit Nov 28 05:16:29 fuck yeah Nov 28 05:16:35 enjoy the new communal pong in train, aeroplane, anywhere! Nov 28 05:16:41 hey nethack for n900? Nov 28 05:16:52 certainly I'd say Nov 28 05:17:00 if you have terminal and curses, you are there Nov 28 05:17:04 hey Nov 28 05:17:04 not in the repo yet Nov 28 05:17:04 even 810 oughta have it .. Nov 28 05:17:06 don't knock pong Nov 28 05:17:07 :) Nov 28 05:17:16 GAN900 if it wasnt for the financial crisis I think it would have been sold for much more than $800 lol Nov 28 05:17:31 wonder if prices will drop soon Nov 28 05:17:32 my first videogame experience was pong, dammit Nov 28 05:17:38 800 for an n900??? Nov 28 05:17:43 heh Nov 28 05:17:45 * AakashPatel wouldnt go that high Nov 28 05:17:51 n810 wimax! Nov 28 05:17:51 AakashPatel yes in here Nov 28 05:17:54 for $1000 Nov 28 05:17:57 where is here Nov 28 05:17:57 ! Nov 28 05:18:08 Macer: Now thats a bargain! Nov 28 05:18:34 hehe Nov 28 05:18:34 they are actually pretty expensive Nov 28 05:18:34 AakashPatel dubai Nov 28 05:18:36 i guess everybody in baltimore is buying them.. or wherever the city is that actually has it Nov 28 05:18:54 Ah Nov 28 05:18:54 is that 800 indian? Nov 28 05:19:03 800 usd Nov 28 05:19:10 wow in dubai? Nov 28 05:19:17 i didn't think people had that much american money Nov 28 05:19:20 816 to be exact Nov 28 05:19:28 Macer: haha Nov 28 05:19:51 816 in dubai .. that would be like someone who owns half the country Nov 28 05:19:53 Macer their currency is fixed to american dollar Nov 28 05:20:25 Macer: Oh, my parents told me about castes the other day Nov 28 05:20:26 haha Nov 28 05:20:37 AakashPatel: hahahaha! Nov 28 05:20:45 goddamn americanized indians Nov 28 05:20:51 eie: how is that even possible? Nov 28 05:20:54 lololol Nov 28 05:20:59 like 8923479347839749247938274 indian = $1? Nov 28 05:21:03 Macer lots of virtue shops here, many people got that phone here lol Nov 28 05:21:04 then tomorrow it's 28934728937893749823789789343892478923723847 Nov 28 05:21:06 Indian? Nov 28 05:21:07 wtf is taht Nov 28 05:21:13 Rs. ftw Nov 28 05:21:18 rubles? Nov 28 05:21:20 Macer 800 sounds like nothing Nov 28 05:21:20 or something? Nov 28 05:21:22 Rupees Nov 28 05:21:26 oh Nov 28 05:21:29 seriously? Nov 28 05:21:32 seriously Nov 28 05:21:33 yea Nov 28 05:21:42 weren't they called rupees in zelda? :) Nov 28 05:21:47 LOL Nov 28 05:22:01 I believe so Nov 28 05:22:06 you guys are hilarious, I'm offended Nov 28 05:22:12 not being indian and all Nov 28 05:22:23 :D Nov 28 05:22:25 i've seen india. it is NOT a very nice place Nov 28 05:22:35 You got aht right Nov 28 05:22:39 like the worst of the worst of the worst ghetto here in chicago... Nov 28 05:22:42 Macer: Unless you're a Patel ;) Nov 28 05:22:48 is nothing compared to a semi bad place in india Nov 28 05:23:00 there is human feces on the streets! Nov 28 05:23:05 That's if youre low class :P Nov 28 05:23:06 nice way to get some perspective into things huh Nov 28 05:23:16 "man my n900 has too little memory" Nov 28 05:23:34 these people dont have shoes, or water, or house fwiw, yay Nov 28 05:23:40 women in india try to sell their babies and when they can't they just throw them into the street and walk away Nov 28 05:23:41 Macer, Dubai is a fuckload richer than wherever you're living. Nov 28 05:23:56 Macer the biggest *cough* democracy *cough* in the world they say 1.3 billion Nov 28 05:23:57 yup Nov 28 05:24:09 GAN900: probably now :) chicago is kind of hurting for money heh Nov 28 05:24:10 Macer: That's if you're poor :P Nov 28 05:24:10 Macer though half the population lives on streets Nov 28 05:24:21 Like *poor* Nov 28 05:24:32 Macer, Dubai is where they build artificial islands. Nov 28 05:24:38 Yeah haa Nov 28 05:24:41 Dubai is rich as fuck Nov 28 05:25:05 lies! Nov 28 05:25:06 :) Nov 28 05:25:10 Lol Nov 28 05:25:14 dubai has 80 USD billionS debt lol Nov 28 05:25:33 eie, that's nothin' Nov 28 05:25:36 eie: US has 12Trillion USD debt :) Nov 28 05:25:38 dubai would be one of the top filthy rich places Nov 28 05:25:48 and man they are screwed when things go south Nov 28 05:25:50 filthy is a good word to describe it Nov 28 05:25:57 they have NO infrastructure for anything whatsoever Nov 28 05:26:05 the place is gonna be deserted Nov 28 05:26:13 they've got some pretty fantastic desal plants Nov 28 05:26:13 GAN900 US is screwed anyways and its big, cant compare it to a small city Nov 28 05:26:15 Dubai? Nov 28 05:26:35 Ave: the place is gonna be deserted Nov 28 05:26:47 and that new super-high tech city Nov 28 05:27:15 if the oil ran out tomorrow they'd be hurting, but then so would everyone else Nov 28 05:27:18 * Macer is reminded of the indian enron power plant Nov 28 05:27:23 so how's that thing working out? Nov 28 05:27:24 :) Nov 28 05:27:28 I never watched taht movie lol Nov 28 05:27:33 theres no food, water, anything, they just fly everything in, not self sustainable at all Nov 28 05:27:40 Macer: i got 10 mins in and fell asleep Nov 28 05:27:41 haa Nov 28 05:27:43 if things go up shit creek, the rich just move away .. Nov 28 05:28:06 AakashPatel: haha Nov 28 05:28:06 that movie is awesome Nov 28 05:28:06 :) Nov 28 05:28:07 you have to get into the 20th minute to really watch the bastards at work Nov 28 05:28:09 not really sure how that's different than anywhere else though Nov 28 05:28:17 we have a weather man in chicago named tom skilling Nov 28 05:28:27 i never realized that was jeff skillling's brother Nov 28 05:28:33 the guy who ran enron into the ground Nov 28 05:29:22 Ave its like expecting andora to manufacture planes Nov 28 05:29:50 sorry, dont get that :\ Nov 28 05:30:13 you mean the desert environment Nov 28 05:30:18 it is extremely futile Nov 28 05:30:49 yet they waste lots of water into making some green areas flourish Nov 28 05:30:54 Ave its a small city with a small population not even a million Nov 28 05:31:06 yeah, thats small Nov 28 05:31:13 compared to what :D Nov 28 05:31:17 ah that's nothing. You ever drive around southern CA? Nov 28 05:31:23 Ave wouldnt expect it to make big stuff or be totally independent Nov 28 05:31:49 they're wasting water on lawns like you wouldn't believe Nov 28 05:31:53 we are pretty independent, except for oil (finland, ~5e6 people) Nov 28 05:31:57 Is there a tethering app for maemo? Nov 28 05:32:02 over wifi? Nov 28 05:32:08 or bluetooth Nov 28 05:32:18 Flandry: sure but usa will never run out of fresh water, surely Nov 28 05:32:25 not true Nov 28 05:32:29 elec maybe, but water, noooo Nov 28 05:32:31 Ave finland is not a desert lol Nov 28 05:32:47 no, its cold and dark and a sad place Nov 28 05:32:47 Ave and 5 million Nov 28 05:32:49 just because energy is the popular topic Nov 28 05:32:56 water is looming Nov 28 05:33:04 overpopulation is looming Nov 28 05:33:07 but we are using it to make corn into ethanol Nov 28 05:33:10 and resource deficiency Nov 28 05:33:27 yeah this eco-bio-greenwash is something I just dont get Nov 28 05:33:30 my research is water treatment oriented Nov 28 05:33:42 what the hell, put FOOD into car? basically Nov 28 05:33:45 no sense whatsoever Nov 28 05:33:52 and very few people realize what an issue water is already Nov 28 05:33:52 Ave they say once oil runs out the big deserts here will export energy Nov 28 05:33:55 solar Nov 28 05:34:21 yeah suppose that'll happen Nov 28 05:34:36 the oil barons surely are investing into solar and other alternavite tech Nov 28 05:34:42 exporting energy is a fairly losing proposition Nov 28 05:34:50 unless it's free Nov 28 05:35:13 heard france is buying huge charged solar batteries from here Nov 28 05:35:14 these days they even have solar panels that have efficiency =>1 Nov 28 05:35:28 the transmission losses are why we don't use our deserts now for power Nov 28 05:35:31 shipped to france Nov 28 05:35:55 maybe use some mad-ass tesla coils and low frequency transfer Nov 28 05:35:56 france? Nov 28 05:35:58 and bigass antennas Nov 28 05:36:08 Ave: Thats what i'm talkin about1 Nov 28 05:36:12 see the TED talk about wireless power Nov 28 05:36:19 Ingenuity ftw Nov 28 05:36:23 over thousands of miles? Nov 28 05:36:24 its usable for short distances atleast Nov 28 05:36:34 well in theory .. Nov 28 05:36:46 but large wavelength requires big antennas .. Nov 28 05:36:58 also germany invested in big solar projects in the sahara desert Nov 28 05:37:03 and you think people will ever allow that... Nov 28 05:37:10 they freak out over phone radiation ffs Nov 28 05:37:17 well those people are NUTS Nov 28 05:37:26 non ionizing radiation and all Nov 28 05:37:32 and a significant voting population Nov 28 05:37:35 lol so is taht radiation shit just buncha BS? Nov 28 05:37:35 little education wouldnt hurt Nov 28 05:37:47 good luck Nov 28 05:37:52 * AakashPatel wonders if he can sleep with his phone 1in from his face Nov 28 05:37:57 w/o getting brain damage Nov 28 05:38:03 >.< Nov 28 05:38:26 geothermal Nov 28 05:38:29 the brain damage would come from the heating effects of the near field Nov 28 05:38:35 not radiation per se Nov 28 05:38:36 yeah Nov 28 05:38:48 atleast according to current knowledge Nov 28 05:38:49 how is that not radiation? Nov 28 05:38:56 So...isnt taht radiation? lol Nov 28 05:39:08 its not ionizing radiation Nov 28 05:39:16 i guess not in the "scary nuclear" sense Nov 28 05:39:16 thats what people SHOULD be worried of Nov 28 05:39:20 it's all EM Nov 28 05:39:25 yeah Nov 28 05:39:40 hell, light is EM Nov 28 05:39:44 hooo I'm sscared! Nov 28 05:39:45 Hah yeah Nov 28 05:39:49 Ave: IT BURNS Nov 28 05:39:50 THE LIGHT Nov 28 05:39:53 point is anyway you gotta do what people will accept Nov 28 05:40:25 we've got a huge NIMBy problem with wind in the US Nov 28 05:40:27 well people are asses Nov 28 05:40:30 and nuclear Nov 28 05:40:36 and when their asses are in need, they'll accept anything .. Nov 28 05:40:39 which are both essential Nov 28 05:40:50 power plants aren't built overnight Nov 28 05:41:18 the lead time on nuclear plants is ridiculous Nov 28 05:41:32 I dont actually like wind, in theory its nice supplement, but to replace even one small reactor, you'd need so insane amount of propelleres that nobody wants them in their backyard making WOOSH WOOSH 24/7 Nov 28 05:41:50 thank you energy density of riched uranium .. Nov 28 05:42:06 we've still got a bunch of basic research to do on geothermal, and the government keeps killing off those projects halfway Nov 28 05:42:16 why Nov 28 05:42:27 here geothermal is being used extensively for small housing now Nov 28 05:42:32 Ave, that's why you buld 'em out in the middle of nowhere. ;) Nov 28 05:42:34 we don't have uranium reserves to go full nuclear unless we can get over the breeder reactor phobia Nov 28 05:42:38 low and passive energy houses Nov 28 05:42:47 that's good Nov 28 05:42:56 i'm talking geothermal electrical production Nov 28 05:43:06 and how do you get the power from middle of nowhere to civilization Nov 28 05:43:09 you have to drill down deep and extract high quality heat Nov 28 05:43:20 I want fusion! Nov 28 05:43:30 yeah don't we all Nov 28 05:43:41 I've been waiting for tokamat to deliver for some time now Nov 28 05:43:45 about to turn BLUE Nov 28 05:43:52 better take a breath :D Nov 28 05:44:33 "it must be oil conspiracy" Nov 28 05:44:56 "once we hit peak oil they'll reveal 100% working fusion desings" Nov 28 05:45:02 i don't think you have to look to conspiracy to explain it Nov 28 05:45:11 stupidity will do :/ Nov 28 05:45:12 omg did someone say reactor? Nov 28 05:45:13 nah, just basic greed Nov 28 05:45:14 It's not efficient enough Nov 28 05:45:19 * AakashPatel has reactor phobia Nov 28 05:45:31 AakashPatel: psst, you are living on one Nov 28 05:45:35 and near one too Nov 28 05:45:37 haha Nov 28 05:45:43 earth core and sun, dammit Nov 28 05:45:44 hehehe Nov 28 05:45:47 all amok! Nov 28 05:45:52 AakashPatel: You noob. planet earth is a react0r! Nov 28 05:46:04 Owow youre smart Nov 28 05:46:11 And arrogant. Nov 28 05:46:13 yeah i subtitled my minor thesis: Geothermal, the safest, cleanest nuclear power source Nov 28 05:46:14 LOL Nov 28 05:46:27 Nice! Nov 28 05:46:34 I subtitled my thesis "Why random people who sound like they know what they're talking about rarely do" Nov 28 05:46:49 sociology? Nov 28 05:47:04 I propose you all see the movie "The Core", not only is it the CRAPPIEST MOVIE I've ever seen, it at the same time neatly demosntrates the dangers of messing with earth core Nov 28 05:47:05 A bit. More Maemo than anything else though. Nov 28 05:47:20 oh man Nov 28 05:47:27 i winced at just the previews Nov 28 05:47:39 2012 was entertaining tho! Nov 28 05:47:44 lol Nov 28 05:47:47 Ave: I thought it was shit Nov 28 05:47:48 haha Nov 28 05:47:50 it's like some evil spawn of SyFy was released into the wild Nov 28 05:47:53 * AakashPatel wasted 8 bucks on taht Nov 28 05:47:58 I've promised to myself that I'll never see another turd by bay/emmerich/bruckheimer Nov 28 05:48:03 but I got free tickets, so meh .. Nov 28 05:48:05 oh Nov 28 05:48:06 instead of being confined to the channel itself Nov 28 05:48:07 then its okay Nov 28 05:48:08 lol Nov 28 05:48:11 2012 was crap. How scientifically inaccurate was THAT movie. Nov 28 05:48:15 very! Nov 28 05:48:20 but did they blow up shit! Nov 28 05:48:27 They did? Nov 28 05:48:28 I saw the new Nightmare on Elm St trailer before the 2012 one Nov 28 05:48:38 I would've killed the cusack character tho Nov 28 05:48:41 and that fucking DOG Nov 28 05:48:43 I swear they switched the produce credits. Nov 28 05:48:44 argh.. Nov 28 05:48:56 Ave: AND THE HOT CHICK Nov 28 05:48:56 ]:P Nov 28 05:48:57 oh Nov 28 05:48:58 wah Nov 28 05:49:00 there was one? Nov 28 05:49:01 that was cool haha Nov 28 05:49:02 who was the hot chick? Nov 28 05:49:10 that other blondie Nov 28 05:49:14 with the dog Nov 28 05:49:18 paris hilton almsot haha Nov 28 05:49:21 oh yeah the rooskie Nov 28 05:49:24 ick Nov 28 05:49:27 but didnt she die, drown .. Nov 28 05:49:33 anyways Nov 28 05:49:37 eh Nov 28 05:49:52 ANYWAYS GOTTA LOVE THAT MAEMO, AY CHUCK? Nov 28 05:49:57 the movie had few nice things in it, like the ark idea, I always assumed some space ships .. Nov 28 05:50:06 Yeah Nov 28 05:50:10 That part was pretty cool Nov 28 05:50:29 and making the chinese do it, that was ingenious Nov 28 05:50:34 in reality too, they have the most resources .. Nov 28 05:50:35 Them chinese! Nov 28 05:50:47 Ave: taht was probably the only fictional part haha Nov 28 05:50:48 Ave: resources = people + land, so sure Nov 28 05:50:57 and COAL Nov 28 05:51:02 Absolutely. The level of research that has gone into that production to closely mimic real life tendencies of manufacturing is abosolutely flabbergasting. Nov 28 05:51:04 coal is overrated Nov 28 05:51:10 oil is underrated Nov 28 05:51:14 co2 ftw Nov 28 05:51:29 lol Nov 28 05:51:33 o2 Nov 28 05:51:35 thats ftw Nov 28 05:51:37 percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere? Nov 28 05:51:41 0.03% Nov 28 05:51:42 * AakashPatel blows up the o2 tank Nov 28 05:51:43 actually I want oil to diminish so we'd get rid of cheap plastic crap Nov 28 05:51:45 global warming _my ass_ Nov 28 05:51:47 I want more metal and wood, dammit Nov 28 05:52:04 lol Nov 28 05:52:08 Ave: How do you get your Amazon packages? Nov 28 05:52:09 Ave: say goodbye to your LCD screen, you can't make that out of metal or wood Nov 28 05:52:17 unless you want every screen in the universe to be glass Nov 28 05:52:19 or oled Nov 28 05:52:24 then its back to flintstones methods Nov 28 05:52:31 And you'd live in a world like that? Nov 28 05:52:34 airport sign Nov 28 05:52:42 actually the problems with rare earth metals is gonna hit is sooner than oil Nov 28 05:52:49 semiconductur business is gonna get hurt Nov 28 05:52:56 diamonds :0 Nov 28 05:52:59 i'm a semiconductor Nov 28 05:53:02 They'll be making that shit in labs in no time. Nov 28 05:53:09 I read it in an article that I'm fully preaching atm. Nov 28 05:53:11 rare earth metals? Nov 28 05:53:14 * AakashPatel buys a $100K intel p5 Nov 28 05:53:32 transmutation ftw now eh Nov 28 05:53:33 gallium, arsenium, etc Nov 28 05:53:38 rashed2020: remember, once you've read it from a newspaper or respected magazine, it's your own knowledge and you can preach it like you have a PhD in the subject Nov 28 05:53:56 lolll Nov 28 05:54:07 TommyBres: Please keep in mind that doing so is only acceptable in certain mediums and not others. Nov 28 05:54:12 I'll be dead before any of this shit happens, so for now I'm getting ALL THE TOYS I CAN Nov 28 05:54:17 remember kids, the one with the most toys wins Nov 28 05:54:24 LOL Nov 28 05:54:36 * AakashPatel writes that down for future reference Nov 28 05:54:40 rashed2020: IRC is included in those medium Nov 28 05:54:41 s Nov 28 05:54:53 Indeed it is, friend. Nov 28 05:54:58 some concern about limited lithium supply too while we're on the subject Nov 28 05:55:12 Screw lithium. That's the only reason we're stuck with crappy batteries. Nov 28 05:55:14 stop press: earth resources are limited Nov 28 05:55:15 Ave: i'll buy Tyko and own your ass in plastics possessions Nov 28 05:55:17 who knew? Nov 28 05:55:21 Where does the worlds lithium primarily come from? Nov 28 05:55:23 FISHER PRICE? YOU'RE MINE! Nov 28 05:55:24 you'd think at element number 3 we'd have a ton around Nov 28 05:55:29 lol Nov 28 05:55:30 bolivia Nov 28 05:55:40 has 1/2 world reserves Nov 28 05:55:41 I see Nov 28 05:55:47 the saudi arabia of lithium Nov 28 05:55:47 i think i just pooped out some lithium Nov 28 05:55:49 LETS DIG 'ER UP Nov 28 05:55:51 should i dig it out for $? Nov 28 05:55:56 well we still have antarctica and siberia up for grabs! Nov 28 05:55:58 no worries Nov 28 05:56:11 once they melt, its gonna be a par-tay Nov 28 05:56:12 but apparently there are no processes that produce lithium in stars Nov 28 05:56:14 Siberia is motherland property. Nov 28 05:56:24 Yeah, lets go live there Nov 28 05:56:26 it actually has been decreasing in abundance since the big bang Nov 28 05:56:29 rashed2020: Pack my bags Nov 28 05:56:38 Ave: are you a geologist? Nov 28 05:56:43 I'm an ASS Nov 28 05:56:45 Flandry: Li has? Nov 28 05:56:48 oh okay Nov 28 05:56:49 yeah Nov 28 05:56:49 AakashPatel: Sorry, don't know how. Haven't read any articles on bag packing. Nov 28 05:56:52 is your major geology? Nov 28 05:57:00 no, I'm EE/CS Nov 28 05:57:01 whats ASS Nov 28 05:57:03 lol Nov 28 05:57:07 lol Nov 28 05:57:09 but I've been reading about antarctica lately :D Nov 28 05:57:13 Ave: oh, i see... you talk like you're a geologist Nov 28 05:57:17 In magazines? Nov 28 05:57:20 no, just an ass Nov 28 05:57:25 Lol Nov 28 05:57:26 Oka Nov 28 05:57:40 i take it as proof God has a sense of humor Nov 28 05:57:51 Lol Nov 28 05:57:54 well i was just curious if you knew these things based on a good background of related education or if you read an article in the new york times science section and decided to spew someone else's ideas on your own soapbox Nov 28 05:58:08 now that i know it's the latter, i'll leave that topic alone Nov 28 05:58:16 ouch Nov 28 05:58:25 that makes panda sad :( Nov 28 05:58:34 I didnt know we were SERIOUS here Nov 28 05:58:36 On the contrary. Pandas are tasty Nov 28 05:58:42 Ave: THE INTERNETS ARE A SERIOUS PLACE Nov 28 05:58:45 you have an element that by all appearances should be THE perfect battery, and then it turns out to be relatively rare Nov 28 05:58:46 Panda's consume more than 99% of the world's Bamboo resources. Nov 28 05:58:51 I hear pands are actually unpalatable Nov 28 05:58:57 i think you're the only one on IRC that doesn't know the internet is serious business Nov 28 05:59:02 You've never tried them with Soy Sauce Nov 28 05:59:07 that must be it Nov 28 05:59:07 eww Nov 28 05:59:09 Ave: you read that in a Zoology article? Nov 28 05:59:23 lol Nov 28 05:59:30 I was wondering about how the pandas taste, and that in china THEY MUST also eat them Nov 28 05:59:34 just must Nov 28 05:59:40 china eats dogs, why not pandas Nov 28 05:59:41 Pandas with Soy Sauce <3 Nov 28 05:59:45 they eat kangaroos in australia Nov 28 05:59:46 I like it when advertisers don't realize that Adult Swim isn't Cartoon Network. Nov 28 05:59:47 endangared species, pish Nov 28 05:59:49 it's a wonder they're not extinct eh Nov 28 06:00:04 GAN900: haha Nov 28 06:00:13 do they eat hedgehogs in England? Nov 28 06:00:22 Probably. Why not? Nov 28 06:00:29 no, just hydrochloric acid judging by their teeth Nov 28 06:00:31 they're cool Nov 28 06:00:37 ouch Nov 28 06:00:38 Only when they're blue. Nov 28 06:00:50 And run really fast. Nov 28 06:00:51 man tommy is on a roll Nov 28 06:01:03 Ave: Lol Nov 28 06:01:03 i know right, if i didn't know better i'd say i'm trolling Nov 28 06:01:13 we're all trolling Nov 28 06:01:18 i should be asleep Nov 28 06:01:20 We are a community of trolls Nov 28 06:01:27 Flandry: as half of us here lol Nov 28 06:01:29 I'm not a troll even tho I smell like one Nov 28 06:01:30 or trying to wrap my head around latinga's code Nov 28 06:01:32 if this is the maemo community, it's going nowhere but down Nov 28 06:01:39 that said, a shower would be nice Nov 28 06:01:42 Ave: what do i smell like? Nov 28 06:01:46 instead of "Internet" the shortcut is gonna be changed to "intarwebz" Nov 28 06:01:47 ass Nov 28 06:01:48 SUGAR WE'RE GOING DOWN DOWN DOWN Nov 28 06:01:49 YES Nov 28 06:01:50 curry Nov 28 06:01:51 not troll! Nov 28 06:01:54 You need some Sans. Nov 28 06:01:56 LOLOL Nov 28 06:02:00 Flandry: haha Nov 28 06:02:08 teh inter tubes are full Nov 28 06:02:13 CURRY Nov 28 06:02:14 LMFAO Nov 28 06:02:20 haha Nov 28 06:02:25 * TommyBres adds Flandry to my friends list Nov 28 06:02:38 yay a friend Nov 28 06:02:44 Flandry: that makes...2 :0 Nov 28 06:02:51 great, now get a room .. Nov 28 06:02:59 Ave: ... Nov 28 06:03:03 You dont get any huggles today Nov 28 06:03:08 This channel ain't notihng. Nov 28 06:03:09 oh what the hell, just do it right here Nov 28 06:03:10 For a great time(with a corpse), visit the #necrolounge Nov 28 06:03:16 Ave: rofl Nov 28 06:03:30 Ave: SOME friends don't put out :( Nov 28 06:03:30 EugeneKay: is there actual people there now? Nov 28 06:03:31 * TommyBres grabs 5 hot sluts from craigslist Nov 28 06:03:35 Flandry: we're gonna do them right here Nov 28 06:03:38 at least 3 regulars Nov 28 06:03:40 wait.. is this #maemo? Nov 28 06:03:43 lol Nov 28 06:03:46 hahaha Nov 28 06:03:48 No Nov 28 06:03:52 This is #randomshit Nov 28 06:03:52 v2px: if you havea question, ask ;) Nov 28 06:03:54 other than that Nov 28 06:03:55 v2px: nah, it's actually #4chan Nov 28 06:03:56 its random Nov 28 06:04:07 it's been all downhill since that guy got banned Nov 28 06:04:09 i wish i were freenode staff, i'd make #maemo forward to #4chan Nov 28 06:04:17 Flandry: Hmm you make a very good point Nov 28 06:04:19 What guy? Nov 28 06:04:21 I know a staph Nov 28 06:04:22 earlier Nov 28 06:04:27 For what? Nov 28 06:04:32 trolling Nov 28 06:04:38 EugeneKay: there's a staffer that hangs out in offtopic Nov 28 06:04:40 escaping from T.M.O Nov 28 06:04:56 Trolling mhile ontoxicated? Nov 28 06:05:02 lmao Nov 28 06:05:02 hahah Nov 28 06:05:09 Too Much Onanism Nov 28 06:05:12 obviously Nov 28 06:05:20 mmm Nov 28 06:05:34 okay i'm back to #android-offtopic, later noobs with a shitty linux-only SDK Nov 28 06:05:42 o.o Nov 28 06:05:45 I'm gonna pretend I didn't read that thing about onanism. Nov 28 06:05:46 Does listening to Linkin Park make me gay? Nov 28 06:05:49 yes Nov 28 06:05:52 Cuz now that's stored in my search history forever. Nov 28 06:05:53 EugeneKay: quite Nov 28 06:06:07 Flandry: That was interesting Nov 28 06:06:43 right, calm down everyone, we must save the worls, for pete's sake Nov 28 06:06:59 I'll start by taking a shower and some oatmeal Nov 28 06:07:03 lol well i think i've done enough damage around here Nov 28 06:07:08 Ave: evasive manure! Nov 28 06:07:10 o.o Nov 28 06:07:13 WORL (660 AM) is a radio station broadcasting a news talk format. Licensed to Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA, it serves the Orlando, Florida area Nov 28 06:07:21 * AakashPatel checks his spell check again Nov 28 06:08:23 Yeah. You'd hate to end up watching The Men Who Stare At Goatse by mistake Nov 28 06:08:27 *cough* http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/men-who-stare-sfw.jpg Nov 28 06:08:43 * AakashPatel passes out Nov 28 06:09:00 It happens. Nov 28 06:09:14 I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Nov 28 06:09:22 Or not be surprised at all that you posted that. Nov 28 06:11:31 Okay...back to maemo talk...maybe? Nov 28 06:14:17 Does it work like a MiFi? Nov 28 06:15:03 I hate Google. Nov 28 06:16:20 luke-jr: why so Nov 28 06:16:42 From pr61.iad07.net.google.com icmp_seq=1 Destination unreachable: Administratively prohibited Nov 28 06:16:52 wtf is with that crap? :p Nov 28 06:16:57 I need a new search engine now Nov 28 06:17:03 yauba.com! Nov 28 06:17:10 BINGGG Nov 28 06:17:22 that chicken one Nov 28 06:17:30 v2px: no AAAA record for that one at all? Nov 28 06:17:36 * arachnist got around the bug #2051, at last :> Nov 28 06:17:38 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2051 Unable to connect to EAP PEAP MSCHAPV2 without certificates Nov 28 06:17:44 oh, hmm Nov 28 06:17:50 hmm Nov 28 06:17:56 links can access Google O.o Nov 28 06:18:02 err duckduckgo.com Nov 28 06:18:09 chicken != duck Nov 28 06:23:55 yay! build-essential on my n900 Nov 28 06:24:18 nice Nov 28 06:24:55 simula: compile somethign cool now Nov 28 06:24:56 lol Nov 28 06:25:11 heh Nov 28 06:25:53 haha compile the linux kernal Nov 28 06:25:56 tell us how long it takes Nov 28 06:26:09 kernel* Nov 28 06:26:19 there's a good chance i'm going to compile the qt sdk which will take longer Nov 28 06:26:26 o.o Nov 28 06:26:37 * AakashPatel would compile that in sbox Nov 28 06:26:47 i say it will take a whole day Nov 28 06:27:03 gcc 4.21 Nov 28 06:27:09 4.2.1 Nov 28 06:27:35 haha this should be fun to watch Nov 28 06:28:32 i wonder if the n900 can overheat Nov 28 06:28:43 from constant high cpu usagte Nov 28 06:28:45 usage Nov 28 06:28:51 it's amazingly low wattage Nov 28 06:29:36 how does one quit the openarena? Nov 28 06:30:26 one does not quit openarena Nov 28 06:30:41 (though 'quit' in the console may work) Nov 28 06:30:54 that was my first thought Nov 28 06:31:02 if there's a tilde key to press.. Nov 28 06:31:08 exactly Nov 28 06:31:19 or escape Nov 28 06:31:27 which is also missing Nov 28 06:33:11 oh Nov 28 06:33:21 wrap foil around the device to destroy the internet connection Nov 28 06:33:38 "FN + [,;]" == escape Nov 28 06:33:56 Klowner: that would totally destroy the connection to localhost ;) Nov 28 06:34:07 oh, darn Nov 28 06:34:20 that'd take a lot of foil Nov 28 06:34:25 but still, managed to get out Nov 28 06:34:40 heh Nov 28 06:35:01 I might buy n900 next year... or maybe even the next device once that's out Nov 28 06:35:15 i could have just logged-in over ssh, but i don't know what's my ip in this network Nov 28 06:35:17 now, I'd love it to be a tiny bit slimmer and instead larger Nov 28 06:35:18 I might buy one if they take my money from me and ship it Nov 28 06:35:27 (maybe with a bit larger battery) Nov 28 06:35:49 Klowner: why wouldn't they? ;p Nov 28 06:35:56 AstralStorm: it's not really as thick as it seems so from the photos Nov 28 06:35:58 AstralStorm: amazon hasn't yet Nov 28 06:36:04 arachnist: it's 20 mm Nov 28 06:36:07 right? Nov 28 06:36:09 or close Nov 28 06:36:12 right. Nov 28 06:36:17 18mm Nov 28 06:36:21 that's thicker than n810 already Nov 28 06:36:24 ;p Nov 28 06:36:31 Amazon US is shipping to a few customers Nov 28 06:36:33 already Nov 28 06:36:34 which is not the king or queen of slimness Nov 28 06:36:41 AstralStorm: most of the smartphones with keyboards are about that thick Nov 28 06:36:47 It's not that thick. Nov 28 06:36:49 yup Nov 28 06:36:50 AakashPatel: yeah some that pre-ordered back in october Nov 28 06:37:04 I ordered on the 6th of this month Nov 28 06:37:10 Oh :/ Nov 28 06:37:11 the whole issue is that they made the screen and the device smaller for no real reason Nov 28 06:37:16 im ordering tomorrow Nov 28 06:37:22 heck, I can fit n810 + a slim phone in a pocket easily Nov 28 06:37:22 So...it'll bea while Nov 28 06:37:32 i preordered back in september Nov 28 06:37:37 so n900 being smaller is not really any help ;p Nov 28 06:37:42 AakashPatel: sounds like people are having good luck ordering directly from the nokia store Nov 28 06:37:56 I'd rather save 150 bucks lol Nov 28 06:38:01 yea Nov 28 06:38:03 but that preorder was cancelled due to bank issues Nov 28 06:38:04 heh Nov 28 06:38:17 You can drop $600 in the toilet and still dry it off Nov 28 06:38:24 in the form of an N900, not so much Nov 28 06:38:28 Hah yeah Nov 28 06:38:51 I can wait a few weeks :) Nov 28 06:39:02 hey the first users pay premium for being test bunnies and beta testers :P Nov 28 06:39:03 * AakashPatel hopes he gets it before christmas Nov 28 06:39:09 Klowner: i ordered directly from the nokia store, but i'm not in the US Nov 28 06:39:11 I *must* have it for my Holland trip, but that's in April Nov 28 06:40:25 heh Nov 28 06:40:39 I'm considering some android goodie instead though Nov 28 06:40:46 to complement n810 functionality Nov 28 06:41:06 I always wanted an N700, and then N800.. so Nov 28 06:41:11 finally going for it Nov 28 06:41:12 hehe Nov 28 06:41:37 n910 ... Nov 28 06:41:42 lol Nov 28 06:42:33 n1k ;) Nov 28 06:42:50 with compass AND microphone :P Nov 28 06:43:02 microphone? there is one on n900 already Nov 28 06:43:07 compass is in as well Nov 28 06:43:12 well working one ... :) Nov 28 06:43:16 we have a compass? Nov 28 06:43:17 (but not sure how to access it) Nov 28 06:43:23 no compass Nov 28 06:43:26 yup, in the GPS chip Nov 28 06:43:33 it's used for dead reckoning Nov 28 06:43:34 AstralStorm: it might as well not be there, if it's like that Nov 28 06:43:37 any reliable specs? Nov 28 06:43:42 none. Nov 28 06:43:44 ;p Nov 28 06:43:47 so no compass Nov 28 06:43:51 heh Nov 28 06:44:01 arachnist: is the GPS ok? Nov 28 06:44:11 or still borked Nov 28 06:44:17 and slow Nov 28 06:44:35 fast with internet connection borked without from what i hear Nov 28 06:44:42 nah Nov 28 06:44:50 take the sim card out and try to get a fix Nov 28 06:44:50 AGPS doesn't count Nov 28 06:45:01 so, it is still crummy Nov 28 06:45:15 AGPS is not a solution, it's a workaround Nov 28 06:45:22 AstralStorm: seems so Nov 28 06:45:31 meh Nov 28 06:45:38 people complain its not only slow but absolutely not working without agps Nov 28 06:45:43 Who said they ordered from amazon also here Nov 28 06:45:43 another reason to buy another phone and not n900 Nov 28 06:45:45 a few mins ago Nov 28 06:45:51 for me too Nov 28 06:46:03 AstralStorm: i managed to get a lock in about 20s in the tram Nov 28 06:46:07 i just keep my order an watch, but if thats not fixed i give it back Nov 28 06:46:07 for net browsing, n810 is adequate Nov 28 06:46:16 arachnist: not great, same as n810 with AGPS Nov 28 06:46:21 arachnist: without sim? Nov 28 06:46:23 AakashPatel: I did Nov 28 06:46:24 with real GPS, you get 0s locks Nov 28 06:46:25 cehteh: with Nov 28 06:46:30 max 5s Nov 28 06:46:35 Klowner: Does amazon get small shipments every day or something? Nov 28 06:46:42 arachnist: yes thats known .. i want to know without Nov 28 06:46:42 like 5 or something? haha Nov 28 06:46:48 AakashPatel: I have no idea, seems like it Nov 28 06:46:55 (for example, with a certain Sirf Star III bt one I tried) Nov 28 06:47:05 (and Sirf aren't the fastest chips) Nov 28 06:47:06 you dont get 0-5s with gps.. Nov 28 06:47:12 sure you do Nov 28 06:47:13 with AGPS Nov 28 06:47:19 oh, sure Nov 28 06:47:32 and n810 and apparently n900 can't do that Nov 28 06:47:35 even with AGPS Nov 28 06:47:37 well 1-2 minutes without net would be ok for me too Nov 28 06:47:39 this means the chip is suck Nov 28 06:47:42 n810 does Nov 28 06:47:45 AstralStorm: you know, tram is a big metal box moving at some speed that's faster than you can run Nov 28 06:47:45 but no fix at all is unacceptable Nov 28 06:47:55 arachnist: I know, that doesn't matter Nov 28 06:47:57 AstralStorm: so i wouldn't say that 20s lock is a bad thing Nov 28 06:48:03 it is Nov 28 06:48:09 tram is comparable to a car Nov 28 06:48:26 arachnist: still talking about without net/sim .. not agps Nov 28 06:48:37 agps doesn't need constant update Nov 28 06:49:13 well if you dont have net then you dont care if it needs only one update or constant Nov 28 06:49:17 ephemeris info + right software means still fast fixes for some time Nov 28 06:49:17 esp. if you use the gps often Nov 28 06:49:37 good GPS grabs ephemeris from clean state in about 30-60s depending on conditions and luck Nov 28 06:49:49 my usecase is to leave the plane somewhere far away, turn it on and be able to navigate Nov 28 06:49:50 well, n810 gets 90s on good conditions Nov 28 06:49:56 I would guess that on n900 it only ffetches agps data when you request a fix. on n810 there's daemon fetching it regulary Nov 28 06:50:04 without net or expensive data roaming Nov 28 06:50:05 and on bad... usually can't lock Nov 28 06:50:19 cehteh: ... really, that is but some few KB of data Nov 28 06:50:26 shouldn't be expensive Nov 28 06:50:29 even w/o a data plan Nov 28 06:50:44 it's only transferred on grabbing the first fix if the AGPS data is too old Nov 28 06:50:53 AstralStorm: even then ... i might have no peering there or no network altogether Nov 28 06:51:03 again Nov 28 06:51:13 there are still areas in the world where you dont have network you know Nov 28 06:51:17 "the data is too old" means some many hours Nov 28 06:51:34 and you don't technically need it, yes Nov 28 06:51:49 standalone gps devices can handle this Nov 28 06:51:54 yup Nov 28 06:52:02 the biggest problem is probably apps that close/reopen the gps all the time, and user covering gps receiver or moving it around so it never gets a continous view of same sector of sky :) Nov 28 06:52:04 because they have non-sucky chips Nov 28 06:52:04 even turned off for a few days Nov 28 06:52:18 ShadowJK_: close/open is simple, ephemeris data is saved Nov 28 06:52:30 user covering gps receiver just spells "crummy" all over it Nov 28 06:52:34 ermm Nov 28 06:52:38 i cant make up my mind Nov 28 06:52:42 it shouldn't even really cause a problem Nov 28 06:52:42 order from amazon Nov 28 06:52:43 or nokia Nov 28 06:53:08 AakashPatel: roll 1k6, divide by 3 rounding up Nov 28 06:53:19 ;) Nov 28 06:53:22 o.o Nov 28 06:53:23 haha Nov 28 06:53:29 HOLY SHIT Nov 28 06:53:30 pRICE DROP Nov 28 06:53:35 http://store.nokia.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdetail_10500_10101_-1_10000367 Nov 28 06:53:37 why should amn app Nov 28 06:53:50 constatntly close/reopen GPS? Nov 28 06:53:59 DocScrutinizer: because GPS sucks quite a bit power Nov 28 06:54:08 nonsense Nov 28 06:54:16 sure it does Nov 28 06:54:16 okay Nov 28 06:54:19 im going from amazon Nov 28 06:54:19 measure it Nov 28 06:54:19 :D Nov 28 06:54:21 ermmm Nov 28 06:54:23 nokia** Nov 28 06:54:23 you won't help it with close/reopen Nov 28 06:54:31 but it's not constantly Nov 28 06:54:41 it means that when you close the app, the GPS is stopped Nov 28 06:54:48 that's what ShadowJK_ meant by "constantly" Nov 28 06:55:16 now, 30s hot fix time is bad. and it's my average with n810 Nov 28 06:55:27 anyone knows what GPS chip is exactly used? Nov 28 06:55:35 shutting down GPs makes sense *only* if you do it for >60sec Nov 28 06:55:41 cehteh: the TI thingy Nov 28 06:55:53 same as 810? Nov 28 06:55:54 DocScrutinizer: ... stating the obvious Nov 28 06:55:56 reports say ovi maps shutsdown and restarts the gps several times per minute, it never stays on long enough to download ephemeris from any satellites I'd guess Nov 28 06:56:02 cehteh: likely not, but a close relative Nov 28 06:56:06 cehteh: maybe a next version Nov 28 06:56:19 20s is average for me on n810 :) Nov 28 06:56:22 ShadowJK_: that would be real fail Nov 28 06:56:34 ShadowJK_: good weather conditions, yes Nov 28 06:56:45 bad weather conditions, urban environment - much harder ;p Nov 28 06:57:01 because the chip sucks Nov 28 06:57:02 * ShadowJK_ draws random squiggles at ovimaps, how the hell does this thing work anyway Nov 28 06:57:02 +6dB on sats make a diff of 15sec to 3min on a GPS Nov 28 06:57:05 AstralStorm: so its on a serial port Nov 28 06:57:11 DocScrutinizer: true Nov 28 06:57:17 cehteh: huh? no. Nov 28 06:57:22 cehteh: it's internal bluetooth Nov 28 06:57:30 wired one Nov 28 06:57:42 maybe it's also available via SPI Nov 28 06:57:44 * AakashPatel is so happy price dropped right before he was gonna roder Nov 28 06:57:44 who know Nov 28 06:57:47 s Nov 28 06:57:49 i2c Nov 28 06:57:57 no, there's no i2c in n8x0 Nov 28 06:57:59 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4663&navigationId=12607&templateId=6123 Nov 28 06:58:00 there's SPI Nov 28 06:58:03 huh Nov 28 06:58:12 5300 is used on 810 Nov 28 06:58:19 so? Nov 28 06:58:25 moo? Nov 28 06:58:39 uart or i2c ... :P Nov 28 06:58:52 the n810 gps chip is connected to serial, I think Nov 28 06:58:52 muhaha, no I2C?? Nov 28 06:59:00 on 810 Nov 28 06:59:06 n900 has i2c Nov 28 06:59:11 ah Nov 28 06:59:35 ShadowJK_: yes, to SPI. but I think the driver also simulates it being a bluetooth device or something Nov 28 06:59:41 quite a bit of work Nov 28 06:59:57 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12803&contentId=41247&DCMP=WTBU&HQS=Other+PR+navilink6 Nov 28 07:00:02 looks like a match Nov 28 07:00:13 not sure Nov 28 07:00:25 and also, those chips are junk considering all GPS that is available Nov 28 07:00:30 they're the worst ones Nov 28 07:00:33 well bluetooth, FM rx/tx and agps Nov 28 07:00:36 even old Sirf chips are better Nov 28 07:00:41 cehteh: so? Nov 28 07:00:46 GPS is via UART2 on N810 Nov 28 07:01:00 DocScrutinizer: nice. Nov 28 07:01:21 what the hell Nov 28 07:01:25 you have to pay sales tax? Nov 28 07:01:27 even if you put sirf in a phone, it wouldn't perform as good as standalone sirf :/ Nov 28 07:01:29 on nokia US store? Nov 28 07:01:32 AakashPatel: ... Nov 28 07:01:42 err ... bluetooth is from braodcom Nov 28 07:01:46 ShadowJK_: not really that bad Nov 28 07:01:48 lol seriously Nov 28 07:01:53 https://wiki.maemo.org/Nokia_N900 Nov 28 07:02:01 at least on the preprod models Nov 28 07:02:03 ShadowJK_: maybe a bit due to extra noise Nov 28 07:02:32 Do the N900 models from Nokia Store come with the $50 rebate? Nov 28 07:02:41 with careful PCB design, you could reach the kind of quality you get from standalone Nov 28 07:03:30 fortunately, GPRS frequencies are a bit away from GPS range Nov 28 07:03:31 nokia could be little more open about the hardware they use .. we are not going to buy the parts and solder our own n900 Nov 28 07:03:37 cehteh: they can't Nov 28 07:03:40 PCB has nothing to do with it. It's just it has to be normal correct and a good antenna Nov 28 07:03:49 and of course good chipset Nov 28 07:03:50 Texas instruments has a stranglehold on this Nov 28 07:03:57 and anyone who would do so wont resist to analyze an actual device Nov 28 07:03:59 DocScrutinizer: sure it has Nov 28 07:04:02 to minimize noise Nov 28 07:04:11 aha Nov 28 07:04:24 what you need is clean power, good and well placed antenna Nov 28 07:04:25 what cant? they coud just tell which chip they use Nov 28 07:04:32 cehteh: NDA I bet. Nov 28 07:04:33 I'd subsummon that under "normal correct design" Nov 28 07:04:38 DocScrutinizer: yup Nov 28 07:04:46 but TI solution is highly integrated Nov 28 07:04:58 that might be part of the reason why the GPS chip is such fail Nov 28 07:05:07 it's very close to the CPU Nov 28 07:05:20 and has no separate filtered power source Nov 28 07:05:24 gprs is good at causing interference with everything. radio pulsing on/off all the time :) Nov 28 07:05:37 ShadowJK_: ... not the right frequency Nov 28 07:05:39 :) Nov 28 07:05:58 AstralStorm: how can you tell they have no filters on GPS VDD Nov 28 07:06:00 ? Nov 28 07:06:15 DocScrutinizer: I don't know Nov 28 07:06:18 it's fully integrated Nov 28 07:06:26 that alone will cause noise Nov 28 07:06:30 my computer's capacitors start going beepitybeep if phone is near it :) Nov 28 07:06:40 nooooonsense Nov 28 07:06:49 heh Nov 28 07:07:16 more integration actually means less noise usually Nov 28 07:07:39 ...right Nov 28 07:07:41 DocScrutinizer: ... Nov 28 07:07:44 you got shorter traces to catch noise Nov 28 07:07:51 try to integrate a small amplifier with a noisy circuit Nov 28 07:07:57 see the SNR drop. a lot. Nov 28 07:08:16 what's the noisy circuit on GPS chipset?? Nov 28 07:08:23 not GPS chipset Nov 28 07:08:25 CPU itself Nov 28 07:08:41 errr.... Nov 28 07:08:43 DocScrutinizer: even sound cards these days get EMI shields Nov 28 07:08:52 of course Nov 28 07:08:55 yup Nov 28 07:08:58 they sure need Nov 28 07:09:23 and here, you also get one, except the noise gets in via power line Nov 28 07:09:34 and GPS of N900 for sure has a dedicated separate shielding can Nov 28 07:09:42 sure, so? Nov 28 07:09:49 the power line and connectors don't Nov 28 07:10:01 and it's a very short distance from the CPU Nov 28 07:10:06 (bad decision IMO) Nov 28 07:10:17 imagine all that huge amounts of noise on n8x0 headphone port, you could hear the touchscreen on it even.. Nov 28 07:10:24 yayaya we got that power line interference issue on Openmoko GTA02 Nov 28 07:10:40 was really poor layout though Nov 28 07:11:00 same here ;p Nov 28 07:11:05 real poor layout IMO Nov 28 07:11:24 I did take apart the n810 Nov 28 07:11:35 (and put it back together, it works) Nov 28 07:11:50 (almoast) ;) Nov 28 07:11:50 hmm, wondering how you can tell as long as you don't have the project files of PCB layout program, to see all 8 layers Nov 28 07:11:57 arachnist: not almost, fully Nov 28 07:12:06 AstralStorm: I did as well Nov 28 07:12:08 the damage was caused by fall(s) and not myself Nov 28 07:12:18 so, the GPS is the left top chip Nov 28 07:12:26 near the tiny strip of metal that is the antenna Nov 28 07:12:43 and to the bottom right (less than 1cm) is the CPU Nov 28 07:13:04 another fail is that GPS and its antenna is near bluetooth and wifi antennas Nov 28 07:13:10 AstralStorm: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/ Nov 28 07:13:19 I figure harmonics of those could interfere Nov 28 07:14:12 what is a good way to transfer files to my n900? i tried treating it as a mass storage device, and copying files to it, but "find / -name 'x'" can't find the files i copied Nov 28 07:14:14 nice, you have more and better pics than me Nov 28 07:14:27 simula_: hmmh? they should be there Nov 28 07:14:38 simula: usb still connected? Nov 28 07:14:40 although, I'd use sshfs Nov 28 07:14:48 but that's just me Nov 28 07:14:58 shadowJK_ i had it connected, then disconnected.. let me try again Nov 28 07:15:31 DocScrutinizer: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/n810_disassembly/snc00281_jpg.jpeg.html this pic is good Nov 28 07:15:32 your computer and n900 can't access the filesystem both at the same time Nov 28 07:15:34 :) Nov 28 07:15:40 yup Nov 28 07:17:27 DocScrutinizer: but you need better focus with those pics ;p Nov 28 07:18:00 was a ETEN M800 IIRC, no way Nov 28 07:18:51 or samsung OMNIA Nov 28 07:18:59 similar crap Nov 28 07:19:43 simula: USB connection only exposes ~user/MyDocs Nov 28 07:19:48 shadowJK_, i ejected it from my linux box before, but now i'm going to exit the terminal Nov 28 07:20:11 simula: If you want the whole tree, use sshfs instead (but it is slower) Nov 28 07:21:07 or use usb_gadget on another filesystem Nov 28 07:21:20 usb_file_gadget what's the driver called Nov 28 07:21:27 simula: is the cable physically connected? Nov 28 07:21:33 nopes Nov 28 07:21:36 instead of sshfs, you could use NFS or CIFS Nov 28 07:21:40 right Nov 28 07:21:46 AStorm <-- being fancy Nov 28 07:21:55 why? Nov 28 07:22:02 CIFS is plain old Samba Nov 28 07:22:04 here's the GPS antenna: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/n810_disassembly/snc00305_jpg.jpeg.html Nov 28 07:22:05 ;p Nov 28 07:22:12 DocScrutinizer: yeah yeah, the golden strip Nov 28 07:22:17 guess it's not really great Nov 28 07:22:18 too small for the frequency Nov 28 07:22:33 even with a length multiplier it's going to be fail Nov 28 07:23:58 someone should hack it to use the whole backplate as the antenna ;p Nov 28 07:24:04 I wonder how well would that work Nov 28 07:24:15 I bet not really, because of noise captured, but worth a try Nov 28 07:24:43 found it... just had to close and open xterm... hmmm Nov 28 07:24:48 thanks astralstorm Nov 28 07:24:50 there's a gps hack for n97 which involves improving the nantenna with more foil Nov 28 07:25:41 you know, the antenna should be a bit like GPRS phone antenna Nov 28 07:25:46 not a weird strip of metal Nov 28 07:25:50 the folder made available to other boxes when the n900 is mass storage is /home/user/MyDocs Nov 28 07:25:57 it's a close frequency range Nov 28 07:26:18 (1,5 GHz for GPS, 1,9GHz for GPRS in some countries) Nov 28 07:26:30 should actually be even longer than that Nov 28 07:27:51 (the antenna as it is is below lambda/2 length, which means suck) Nov 28 07:29:08 1.8, 1.8, 2.1(UMTS) Nov 28 07:29:21 err 1.8, 1.9, 2.1(UMTS) Nov 28 07:29:32 yup Nov 28 07:29:37 GPS is about 1,5 Nov 28 07:29:38 and of cours e850, 900 Nov 28 07:29:48 so, a bit longer waves Nov 28 07:29:49 and umts900 Nov 28 07:29:54 mhm Nov 28 07:30:17 umts900 is a weird american non-standard Nov 28 07:30:20 aiui Nov 28 07:30:28 no Nov 28 07:30:29 no, european not-yet-standard ;p Nov 28 07:30:32 e.g. Finland. Nov 28 07:30:36 muhahaha Nov 28 07:30:47 never seen european buerocrats Nov 28 07:31:38 finland is a poor country, with looooong distances between BTS. They simply *need* D-band Nov 28 07:31:44 hmm Nov 28 07:31:45 even for UMTS ;-P Nov 28 07:32:15 N900 is about as thick as the ThinkPad X300 without the display Nov 28 07:32:32 who cares? Nov 28 07:32:33 which means thick Nov 28 07:32:35 they should've taken 450 away from digita and used it for umts too :) Nov 28 07:32:36 for a cell phone Nov 28 07:32:36 DocScrutinizer: umts900 is european. umts850 is american Nov 28 07:32:38 ;) Nov 28 07:32:45 it is ok Nov 28 07:32:49 does not feel thick Nov 28 07:33:05 RST38h: try carrying it some more, huh Nov 28 07:33:06 my e70 was probably thicker Nov 28 07:33:07 suihkulokki: ok, that might be correct Nov 28 07:33:13 yup Nov 28 07:33:18 e70 is almost a brick Nov 28 07:33:31 http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=fi&net=e3 Nov 28 07:33:42 850/1900 is US Nov 28 07:33:53 900/1800 is sane world ;-P Nov 28 07:34:04 900/1800/2100 actually Nov 28 07:34:05 :) Nov 28 07:34:16 still small compared to 1610 and e90 Nov 28 07:34:30 ShadowJK_: those actually *are* bricks Nov 28 07:34:36 lo Nov 28 07:34:54 nah, cityman is a brick Nov 28 07:35:06 no contest on that Nov 28 07:35:13 AstralStorm: it's not much thicker than the N97, really Nov 28 07:35:17 1 or 2mm Nov 28 07:35:34 that's definitely not slim Nov 28 07:35:37 ;p Nov 28 07:35:38 my newton message pad is a brick :) Nov 28 07:35:38 (when put one next to the other) Nov 28 07:35:57 compare to HTC Hero for instance Nov 28 07:36:02 ;p Nov 28 07:36:12 AstralStorm: start comparing N900 to phones that actually have a non-flat keyboard, and it doesn't seem very thick Nov 28 07:36:26 heh Nov 28 07:36:35 n810? ;p Nov 28 07:36:41 phones? Nov 28 07:36:43 but this doesn't have the camera Nov 28 07:36:51 * DocScrutinizer wonders if Nokia will manage to ship his N900 today o.O Nov 28 07:36:52 which adds some 2mm thickness Nov 28 07:36:57 n810 keyboard is kinda flat.. Nov 28 07:37:04 arachnist: Xperia 2? Nov 28 07:37:08 which is thinner Nov 28 07:37:21 ShadowJK_: not flat enough, it's ok Nov 28 07:37:59 AstralStorm: besides, it being a little thick actually helps holding the device Nov 28 07:38:02 when they delay a little bit longer, I simply will send it back and get may money back Nov 28 07:38:03 hm huh, swapon on microsd card on n900 hung :) Nov 28 07:38:17 remkswap it Nov 28 07:38:25 probably the swap file broke Nov 28 07:38:50 AStorm: I carry it all the time. It is ok. Nov 28 07:39:02 btw, the default 256MB of ubifs for / is a bad joke Nov 28 07:39:07 it got stuck somewhere from vfat bmap code Nov 28 07:39:12 i managed to fill it yesterday :P Nov 28 07:39:30 arachnist: Let me guess: this is your first maemo device? Nov 28 07:39:35 optify Nov 28 07:39:36 if only people wouldn't have their software installed there :/ Nov 28 07:39:48 RST38h: nope. had an N800 earlier Nov 28 07:40:04 then I do not see what changed Nov 28 07:40:08 atleast on diablo you didn't need xterm to see space on / :) Nov 28 07:40:25 ? Nov 28 07:40:39 RST38h: the fact that i could get entire system on the N800 on the internal SDHC card Nov 28 07:40:49 ah tha Nov 28 07:41:06 you can probably still do it with N900, just has not been tried by anyone Nov 28 07:41:07 control panel -> memory, doesn't show free space on / on n900 Nov 28 07:41:30 huh? Nov 28 07:41:31 ShadowJK: There is an app for that afaik Nov 28 07:41:31 and with control panel i mean settings Nov 28 07:41:32 ShadowJK_: xterm -> df -h Nov 28 07:42:01 /opt /home etc on iSD? Nov 28 07:42:07 arachnist: context, context, context, banana Nov 28 07:42:15 doc, yes Nov 28 07:42:40 I bet that's been tried dozens if not hundreds of times on N900 now Nov 28 07:42:55 ShadowJK_: pineaple Nov 28 07:44:13 call me a philistine, but I think I'd preferred n900 hw with maemo4 software ;) Nov 28 07:44:55 have fun placing a phonecall Nov 28 07:45:47 i might just do what i did with my other arm-powered device: mount some NFS rw, copy everything from / to it, pivot_root, rearrange the partitions (like giving / at least 2GB, by shrinking /home/user/MyDocs) and hoping that everything will still work Nov 28 07:45:53 Shadow: yep. Nov 28 07:46:47 arachnist: why should it fail? Nov 28 07:47:08 DocScrutinizer: some crazy u-boot hack? Nov 28 07:47:17 RST38h: fix your autocomplete ;) Nov 28 07:47:29 n900 has no tab Nov 28 07:47:42 ShadowJK_: the terminal has tab Nov 28 07:47:54 aaaww, a few MB for kernel, another partition... nothing that uld stop you Nov 28 07:47:54 arachnist: and no, 256 MB ubifs is almost good Nov 28 07:47:58 * RST38h uses IRCII inside screen inside ssh session. What autocomplete? Nov 28 07:48:03 arachnist: in that it's ubifs and not jffs2 Nov 28 07:48:22 I can easily fit n810 system in the jffs2 flash Nov 28 07:48:23 AstralStorm: i have nothing against ubi Nov 28 07:48:34 but I *could* use extra 256 MB there Nov 28 07:48:35 AstralStorm: it just sucks that it's so small Nov 28 07:48:39 no, why Nov 28 07:48:42 it's not meant for data storage Nov 28 07:48:49 you have the internal MMC for this Nov 28 07:49:05 AstralStorm: because some of the stuff you install still lands there Nov 28 07:49:10 ... Nov 28 07:49:14 AstralStorm: especially from the extras-devel repo Nov 28 07:49:19 some of the stuff like what Nov 28 07:49:22 apps Nov 28 07:49:23 ;p Nov 28 07:49:26 they do and should Nov 28 07:49:29 AstralStorm: like fennec, or tear Nov 28 07:49:32 but as I've said before Nov 28 07:49:38 it is a bit tight Nov 28 07:49:40 so 256MB is not enough Nov 28 07:49:42 someone should try uclibc Nov 28 07:50:09 * ShadowJK_ has 64M free there Nov 28 07:50:18 ShadowJK_: on a fresh system, I bet Nov 28 07:50:25 after removing pointless junk Nov 28 07:50:27 :) Nov 28 07:50:39 i havent removed anything Nov 28 07:50:41 (some stuff lands there) I really doubt any app nstaller or whatever will care *where* the rootfs lives, as where do the mounted /opt /home /etc etc Nov 28 07:50:56 ShadowJK_: so do that, remove e.g. multilingual user manuals Nov 28 07:50:58 btw, there's /omweather.xml - WTF? Nov 28 07:51:02 sample video and sounds Nov 28 07:51:04 (yes, /) Nov 28 07:51:10 i did install openssh, rootsh, pwsafe though Nov 28 07:51:21 pwsafe? lol, nobody sane uses that Nov 28 07:51:26 passwords are safer in head Nov 28 07:51:41 not in mine Nov 28 07:51:45 heh Nov 28 07:51:46 :-P Nov 28 07:51:46 * cehteh uses uuid's for passwords Nov 28 07:51:48 fix it then ;p Nov 28 07:52:03 i figured pwsafe is marginally better than a plaintext 'passwords' file Nov 28 07:52:08 * DocScrutinizer fetches the wooden hammer Nov 28 07:52:14 ShadowJK_: of course Nov 28 07:52:28 DocScrutinizer: use a rubber one instead Nov 28 07:52:41 and more convenient than openssl bf -d in terminal Nov 28 07:52:58 ShadowJK_: less convenient than just remembering your passwords Nov 28 07:53:06 ;p Nov 28 07:53:37 it's easy to remember passwords if you have a different one for everything Nov 28 07:53:46 yes, it is. Nov 28 07:53:48 :) Nov 28 07:53:50 i cant keep up. heck, just maemo.org needs like 3 of them Nov 28 07:54:05 no need for split passwords there Nov 28 07:54:07 at least when most of them is made using the same schema Nov 28 07:54:07 could use one Nov 28 07:54:16 since this is the same server Nov 28 07:54:30 a break there means an attacker will grab all of these anyway Nov 28 07:54:37 they could have made it "one account rules them all" Nov 28 07:54:39 arachnist: or not. Nov 28 07:54:55 maybe OpenID? :> Nov 28 07:55:12 they,re not the same server though, and not in same dc even? Nov 28 07:55:15 I'd love a one time password based system Nov 28 07:55:23 ShadowJK_: they're linked Nov 28 07:55:30 that's enough Nov 28 07:56:38 btw, locking the keyboard with that thingny on the right side is a good idea Nov 28 07:57:25 convinient and doesn't seem to get turned on/off by accident Nov 28 07:58:02 hm. xchat crashes on n900 if i go to preferences and then tap ok Nov 28 07:58:47 ok, need to get my daily fix of cola Nov 28 07:59:58 ShadowJK_: eeeeek Nov 28 08:00:19 was the first app to install tomorrow :-S Nov 28 08:00:52 oh Nov 28 08:01:01 that reminds me to configure irssi-proxy Nov 28 08:01:37 well, the config files are plaintext anyway, as it's good custom on unix Nov 28 08:02:27 xchat on OM has no config dialog I knew of ;-P Nov 28 08:04:52 btw, i think that the N900 might have usb host after all Nov 28 08:05:10 either that, or lsusb is lying Nov 28 08:06:45 how can i test that here arachnist Nov 28 08:07:03 oh nm Nov 28 08:07:06 what device do you have Nov 28 08:07:11 lsusb wouldnt know about the wiring :) Nov 28 08:07:19 yeah Nov 28 08:07:23 i thought you had done something else nm Nov 28 08:07:27 n810 keyboard lock has a tendency to unlock Nov 28 08:07:30 pupnik: N900 Nov 28 08:07:32 because the slider autounlocks Nov 28 08:07:34 crazy brain hoppin on some passin cloud Nov 28 08:07:35 I find that broken Nov 28 08:07:55 what? Nov 28 08:08:00 would love to disable autounlock on keyboard being extended (that sensor is too sensitive) Nov 28 08:08:06 arachnist: what is connected to n900 that seems to show usb host mode working on n900? Nov 28 08:08:07 how does it autounlock? Nov 28 08:08:08 AstralStorm: as i said, the lock on the N900 works great so far Nov 28 08:08:22 ShadowJK_: you extend the keyboard, the screen is unlocked Nov 28 08:08:26 that's how it works on n810 Nov 28 08:08:31 ah right Nov 28 08:08:32 but the keyboard is a slider Nov 28 08:08:35 pupnik: lsusb shows the "usb host" device Nov 28 08:08:46 it's easy to move it accidentally enough for the device to register "being extended" Nov 28 08:09:16 never happened to me accidentally.. and it relocks when you close it unless you do things in between Nov 28 08:09:24 brb Nov 28 08:09:44 i just see Bus --1 Device --1: ID 1d6b:0002 Nov 28 08:09:53 ShadowJK_: yes, it does relocks Nov 28 08:09:54 i just see Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Nov 28 08:09:59 but that's too late Nov 28 08:10:15 the telock is usually too slow Nov 28 08:10:23 some screen press might happen in the meantime Nov 28 08:10:25 ;p Nov 28 08:10:50 it's real easy to move keyboard enough when putting the device in the protector Nov 28 08:11:10 and it tends to be < 1 mm precision Nov 28 08:11:18 maybe my slide got loose with use and abuse ;p Nov 28 08:11:21 * ShadowJK_ hasnt had much happen even when he forgets to lock and has n810 in pocket :) Nov 28 08:11:28 haha Nov 28 08:11:34 I had music playback start Nov 28 08:11:44 desktop being reordered (dumb idea, no lock there ;p ) Nov 28 08:11:49 etc etc Nov 28 08:12:00 eat more ShadowJK_ son! You all skin and bones! Nov 28 08:12:23 so anyone else fill up the n900 ? Nov 28 08:12:38 notice the crawler getting in your way or not? Nov 28 08:12:46 I assume OMAP3 SoC has multiple USB interfaces Nov 28 08:13:14 is that interesting to us? Nov 28 08:13:24 so it could conect any internal "peripheral" via USB which shows up as host then Nov 28 08:13:24 :) Nov 28 08:13:34 DocScrutinizer: if you find the wires Nov 28 08:13:40 assuming they're even connected Nov 28 08:13:51 huh? Nov 28 08:13:57 ... Nov 28 08:14:09 oh wait Nov 28 08:14:15 the camera is via that USB Nov 28 08:14:18 no joy for you Nov 28 08:14:23 [2009-11-28 09:04:52] btw, i think that the N900 might have usb host after all Nov 28 08:14:24 yes it has an ehci host controller and a usb1+usb2 otg controller Nov 28 08:14:24 [2009-11-28 09:05:10] either that, or lsusb is lying Nov 28 08:14:42 DocScrutinizer: ... it's the main chip Nov 28 08:14:49 the one you have connected externally Nov 28 08:14:56 I call that SoC Nov 28 08:15:03 it is both host and client Nov 28 08:15:18 [2009-11-28 09:12:46] I assume OMAP3 SoC has multiple USB interfaces Nov 28 08:15:18 nice OTG Nov 28 08:15:22 no. Nov 28 08:15:27 what for Nov 28 08:15:37 remember how much power USB eats Nov 28 08:15:42 DocScrutinizer: the omap3 SoC supportes ehci but you still need to pair it with PHY Nov 28 08:15:46 the chip can handle 2 USB. Nov 28 08:15:50 exactly Nov 28 08:15:55 the Phy is not connected Nov 28 08:16:02 DocScrutinizer: look at the beagleboard schematics Nov 28 08:16:07 suihkulokki: that's true for full featured USB interface Nov 28 08:16:35 not though if you e.g. connect an internal BT-module via usb, like it's done on OM freerunner Nov 28 08:16:47 DocScrutinizer: ... no, not w/o phy Nov 28 08:16:58 it's not USB w/o phy Nov 28 08:17:11 it's.... something internal ;) Nov 28 08:17:20 AstralStorm: the protocol and D+/- *are* USB Nov 28 08:17:28 yes, so? Nov 28 08:17:38 wrong voltage, wrong current Nov 28 08:17:46 you still need the Phy Nov 28 08:17:52 if only a small one Nov 28 08:17:54 lsusb doesn't need a PHY to show an nterface as host Nov 28 08:18:07 yes, so. Nov 28 08:18:23 the problem is that both - and + go positive here I think Nov 28 08:18:31 and low voltage Nov 28 08:18:40 what do you tell me?? On FR we have *no* PHY to connect hte BT module to S3C2442 SoC Nov 28 08:18:43 no real USB device will work w/o a Phy AKA adapter Nov 28 08:18:44 USB Nov 28 08:18:50 ... Nov 28 08:18:57 this USB host is a bit different Nov 28 08:19:05 it doesn't send proper levels Nov 28 08:19:08 *sigh* Nov 28 08:20:02 unlike most other phy-less chips Nov 28 08:20:21 (which send proper differential output) Nov 28 08:20:28 (if lower in voltage) Nov 28 08:20:57 lsusb doesn't need a PHY to show an nterface as host Nov 28 08:21:12 neither does xHCI Nov 28 08:22:52 some laptops have >3 internal USB host interfaces and sometimes >10 internal USB-connected devices like touchscreen, Wifi, dunno what else Nov 28 08:24:53 some people stick things into air vents Nov 28 08:27:25 things like live fish and calamari tentacles Nov 28 08:27:35 helo, pupnik Nov 28 08:46:13 who's in charge of mxr.maemo.org? Nov 28 08:46:21 timeless Nov 28 08:46:25 grr Nov 28 08:46:54 * jaem has a bone to pick Nov 28 08:47:04 how are you, Stskeeps ? Nov 28 08:47:41 tired Nov 28 08:47:48 sigh... me too Nov 28 08:47:53 down to the wire on a project Nov 28 08:48:06 trying to work out BT D-Bus calls on Maemo Nov 28 08:48:19 bluez? Nov 28 08:48:37 yeah, but Maemo has some wrappery stuff Nov 28 08:49:38 I need to bug timeless about mxr, because for *some* reason, it's indexing PNGs as plaintext :/ Nov 28 08:49:42 sigh Nov 28 08:49:46 useless Nov 28 09:26:08 heya all Nov 28 09:26:47 a Nov 28 09:29:42 morning wazd o/ Nov 28 09:32:31 wazd: so your pc finally stable again? P Nov 28 09:32:33 :P Nov 28 09:32:56 Stskeeps: looks like :D Nov 28 09:34:21 good Nov 28 09:42:27 r39pq Nov 28 09:42:31 shit Nov 28 09:42:33 zzz Nov 28 09:42:34 arrggg Nov 28 09:42:37 hello Nov 28 09:42:56 Imma need to change my password now :\ Nov 28 09:43:15 you change password first, then tell Nov 28 09:43:15 :P Nov 28 09:43:37 Someone /ghost him Nov 28 09:43:47 shut up Nov 28 09:43:58 thats not the full password Nov 28 09:44:16 Besides, its my birthday - don't hurt frigle old me on my birthday Nov 28 09:44:24 happy birthday :P Nov 28 09:44:25 fragile* Nov 28 09:44:33 Grr, fine. Happy birthday, then Nov 28 09:45:07 Thanks guys :D Nov 28 09:48:10 * SpeedEvil passes Termana a cake with 8 candles on. Nov 28 09:49:04 Thanks for the cake, but why only 8 candles? Nov 28 09:49:24 Only an 8 year old would accidently show part of their password in an IRC channel? Nov 28 09:50:14 * SpeedEvil did that accidentally once with his most secret password. Nov 28 09:50:30 'Argh - pull network cable, change password on 8 systems time.' Nov 28 09:51:05 lol :P luckily I don't use the same password everywhere Nov 28 09:51:55 Root password for local systems Nov 28 09:52:10 Yeah, and be sure not to keep any secrets highlighted so that you might accidentally paste it into IRC or onto the web browser, creating a DNS query with the contents... Nov 28 09:52:31 (middle mouse paste, on X systems) Nov 28 09:52:42 Sounds like another victim Nov 28 09:52:49 system was swapping, I was typing into xterm, xterm got oomkilled, and buffered keystrokes went into IRC Nov 28 10:09:24 SpeedEvil: on n900? Nov 28 10:09:34 oh dear Nov 28 10:09:37 sorry nevermind Nov 28 10:10:09 i seem to be the only person reporting severe lags entering text into google Nov 28 10:10:45 pupnik: keep in mind you are using the live search probably Nov 28 10:10:55 what causes that? is google on maemo running javascript that table-lookups each character i type? Nov 28 10:10:58 ahh Nov 28 10:11:56 on the n900 mobile link i can type one character into field Nov 28 10:12:03 then a 10 second delay comes Nov 28 10:12:08 then the rest of what i type is shown Nov 28 10:12:17 this is 'drive user nuts' behavior Nov 28 10:12:26 seems fine for me Nov 28 10:12:51 morn Nov 28 10:12:54 many many possible causes Nov 28 10:13:13 i guess i need to make a survey now that devices are shipping Nov 28 10:13:17 too many apps open at once ? Nov 28 10:13:29 lots of browser plugins installed ? Nov 28 10:13:47 none, two or three Nov 28 10:13:52 does anyone knows where to download previous versions of maemo (of the one currently installed)? Nov 28 10:13:52 lemme see if ssh might be causing it Nov 28 10:14:26 how do you get a mouse click in easydebian? Nov 28 10:16:02 closed all apps, started browser. clicked googlie-mobile page. started entering text. suddenly page froze up and i couldn't type (after 4 letters) then it continued - no other programs running Nov 28 10:18:09 restart ? Nov 28 10:18:20 you got desktop widgets on? Nov 28 10:18:36 * RST38h moos at Arkenoi Nov 28 10:19:28 ah, it is just slooooow Nov 28 10:20:31 nope, turning the search history, locations off (and signed out of gooooooooglebrother) Nov 28 10:20:51 and search suggestions off in google 'preferences' Nov 28 10:21:17 pupnik: swapping maybe? Nov 28 10:22:03 I have seen this happen a few times, with system being seemingly "stuck", usually eating 100% CPU, but no significant processes in htop Nov 28 10:22:49 hmm Nov 28 10:22:58 how do i get swapping shown to me live Nov 28 10:22:58 RST38h: mmc I/O maybe Nov 28 10:23:35 at least it helps to get confirmation that it's something unique to me Nov 28 10:23:43 but it might indicate a security hole Nov 28 10:23:54 Sts: yea Nov 28 10:23:57 since i am one of the canaries in a coalmine when it comes to getting hacked Nov 28 10:24:46 pupnik, you use your N900 in a coal mine? :S Nov 28 10:24:51 no wonder you have issues Nov 28 10:24:52 :P Nov 28 10:25:10 if there's a good enough wifi signal, who cares. Nov 28 10:25:12 :P Nov 28 10:25:24 Stskeeps, I'm guessing not Nov 28 10:27:18 google.com homepage is not as simple as it looks Nov 28 10:27:39
nG type=submit value="Google Search" class=lsb onclick="this.checked=1"> Nov 28 10:27:48 well, looks like OOo defaults are incredibly ugly and customizing on such a slow machine is real pain :-( Nov 28 10:28:11 maybe if i set maxlength=255 this whole thing speeds up? Nov 28 10:28:21 open office? Nov 28 10:28:30 yep Nov 28 10:28:50 Arkenoi: talked to any open office folks about it? Nov 28 10:28:50 from easydebian Nov 28 10:28:50 ahh Nov 28 10:29:08 koffice on its way Nov 28 10:29:17 anybody here in germany Nov 28 10:34:40 * jaem growls at BlueZ Nov 28 10:34:43 actually if OOo *wasn't* customized for n900 and just had its default look on such a screen size it'd be much more usable Nov 28 10:34:45 this is most odd Nov 28 10:34:57 I've been referencing http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/libconbtui/src/conbtdialogs-dbus.h Nov 28 10:35:05 * CoreFusion- is amused by all the these threads in t.m.o about N900 sucks, N900 pushed out too early, etc.. :D Nov 28 10:35:10 and using the show_search_dlg call Nov 28 10:35:24 n900 is awesome Nov 28 10:35:30 it worked initially, when using qdbus-send manually, but now it doesn't Nov 28 10:35:53 the DBus call returns (apparently) successfully, but the response contains no arguments Nov 28 10:36:11 still one week until I get my N900 :/ Nov 28 10:36:14 is anyone familiar with this area of things? Nov 28 10:36:24 kynky, agreed :) Nov 28 10:36:35 got my n900 on thursday, loving it Nov 28 10:37:33 totally dont mind bugs being fixed over time, i expect it as an early adopter of a deveopment machine Nov 28 10:38:01 had to do a few reboots, for settings to kick in sometimes Nov 28 10:41:07 i'm happy since i worked around the #2051 Nov 28 10:41:25 bug 2051 Nov 28 10:41:25 which was? Nov 28 10:41:27 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2051 Unable to connect to EAP PEAP MSCHAPV2 without certificates Nov 28 10:41:31 ah Nov 28 10:41:35 :) Nov 28 10:43:14 though i don't think i would be able to guess what's the issue without access to the AD server Nov 28 10:44:42 time to do tidying the house :( Nov 28 10:46:20 lardman , too late, but hire a maid, and enforce strict compliance to uniform Nov 28 10:49:12 well, lxde is almost unusable due to stupid huge fonts someone set to default and just changing those is damn too hard Nov 28 10:51:54 lxde was fine for Nov 28 10:51:56 me Nov 28 10:52:21 i was unable to use any dialog Nov 28 10:52:44 go to preferences and those huge fonts kick almost everything out of screen Nov 28 10:53:25 i could not even find where to change it to something reasonable Nov 28 10:53:26 i use gentoo Nov 28 10:53:29 same thing in ooo Nov 28 10:53:46 kynky, on n900? Nov 28 10:54:02 Arkenoi: Wy not fix it the way you want? It does not even require programming, does it? Nov 28 10:54:28 Arkenoi, no, not on the N900 Nov 28 10:54:31 oh, lol, that will be why, but yah planning on putting gentoo om n900 at some point Nov 28 10:54:55 kynky, you aware of the effort for Gentoo on the N8X0? Nov 28 10:55:22 rst38h: well, it takes some time to figure out where all is that located. i wish i'd go back to good old .Xdefaults days to do things like our ancestors made it to be Nov 28 10:55:52 kynky, i guess it *IS* the point, you are *NOT* doing that on n900 :-/ Nov 28 10:56:31 eh? :P Nov 28 10:56:40 n900 can run gentoo just fine if you aren't picy Nov 28 10:56:41 ky Nov 28 10:57:12 i used lxde on my box im typing on at the moment on gentoo, using xfce at mo, but cant ou just change config files for lxde , its gtk based, maybe have a predefined gtkrc first ? Nov 28 10:57:36 gentoo , doing work with armv7 stuff as we speak Nov 28 10:58:57 http://armin762.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/armv7/ Nov 28 10:59:02 (as in, you -will- have to deal with some binary blobs) Nov 28 10:59:25 kynky: talk to luke-jr and slonopatomus Nov 28 10:59:36 i use nvidia binaries on my box anyway, i dont mind binary blobs Nov 28 10:59:51 Stskeeps, cheers Nov 28 11:04:29 is there an image out now to use with maemo flasher, if you install somthing that kinda messes up your n900? Nov 28 11:04:48 yes Nov 28 11:06:54 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php :) Nov 28 11:07:58 the imei is also available on the order info, if ou ordered from the nokia store Nov 28 11:08:33 i did, but too late now, cheers though Nov 28 11:09:42 also enough ppl posted their imei numbers (instead of just serial) on tmo Nov 28 11:12:15 so i want global release for uk (not usa or middle east and africa) Nov 28 11:12:39 also, it seems to check only a few first numbers Nov 28 11:12:49 s/a/the/ Nov 28 11:12:49 arachnist meant: thelso, it seems to check only a few first numbers Nov 28 11:13:04 meh Nov 28 11:13:08 :) Nov 28 11:13:23 anyway, s/numbers/digits/ Nov 28 11:14:37 The N900 is up for 9 days now and most operations got really sluggish Nov 28 11:14:46 Disk space is fine, including / Nov 28 11:14:55 Memory use also seems to be fine Nov 28 11:14:56 mhm emacs/gtk doesnt look that good .. Nov 28 11:15:03 HTOP does not show any abnormal activity Nov 28 11:15:12 but i guess in xterm will be better anyways, just for memory consumption and performance Nov 28 11:15:29 you can change at least the last 7 digits of the IMEI Nov 28 11:16:11 think that gives a good enough range for anyone to download the software Nov 28 11:16:45 last seven digits is serial anyway (except 7th) Nov 28 11:18:48 /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.2.1/libgcc.a(_divdi3.o):(.ARM.exidx+0x0): undefined reference to `__aeabi_unwind_cpp_pr0' Nov 28 11:18:51 eww Nov 28 11:18:55 pupnik: no. Nov 28 11:18:55 good night Nov 28 11:19:31 pupnik: Perhaps it's caused by goiogle suggestions Nov 28 11:19:32 Oh Nov 28 11:20:04 was wondering if some of this googlecode is odd Nov 28 11:20:21 Do normal FF plugins work with the browser? Nov 28 11:20:27 xpi Nov 28 11:20:29 if so, xulprofiler Nov 28 11:20:36 at least adblock works Nov 28 11:20:41 ty sir Nov 28 11:22:30 i'd like a system level profiler that helps me figure out exactly what is active when this hang situation happens Nov 28 11:22:47 got a battery charger for bl-5j for £2.50 :) Nov 28 11:22:47 hello kernel i guess Nov 28 11:22:58 wow, i paid 20 Nov 28 11:23:11 pupnik: oprofile Nov 28 11:23:18 pupnik: but that needs kernel support Nov 28 11:23:31 which, i assume, the n900 kernel doesn't have Nov 28 11:23:37 i had oprofile running on n810 Nov 28 11:23:40 just gotta find a place that does cheap offical bl-5j batteries Nov 28 11:23:59 pupnik: while true do ps ;sleep 1; done >log ? Nov 28 11:24:08 nice - i got a univ charger so it can do different voltages and battery types Nov 28 11:24:10 SpeedEvil: not very accurate Nov 28 11:24:10 kynky: where did you get the charger? Nov 28 11:24:28 arachnist: no, of course it's not. It'll tell you if anything is actually wedging the CPU though Nov 28 11:24:36 friend ordered 2 from a retailer on ebay Nov 28 11:24:40 arachnist: or if something is waiting on something Nov 28 11:24:51 i'm not following Nov 28 11:25:36 http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=bl-5j+charger&hl=en&scoring=p , for prices on cheap chargers Nov 28 11:25:57 pupnik: just run ps and date to a logfile, every second, and check the exact time of your stall Nov 28 11:26:01 pupnik: then investigate Nov 28 11:26:03 3rd link down ithink Nov 28 11:26:44 hmm Nov 28 11:26:52 *#06# doesn't work on N900 Nov 28 11:27:07 yes, i know, there are other ways to check imei Nov 28 11:27:23 hmm ty SpeedEvil that is fine grained enough to yield something Nov 28 11:27:24 control panel -> about product, yeah Nov 28 11:27:25 :P Nov 28 11:27:43 just need to synch clock and i'm good Nov 28 11:27:56 Stskeeps, lol, yeah Nov 28 11:28:09 hey how do I check my IP on my N800? Nov 28 11:28:20 i use 'ifconfig' Nov 28 11:28:24 ifconfig? Nov 28 11:28:33 bit scared if i lose n900 though, guess i should not have it remeber passwords Nov 28 11:28:36 there is also an applet that should be on its way to maemo extras repository Nov 28 11:28:42 oh :P needed sudo I guess Nov 28 11:28:49 I had tried it without Nov 28 11:28:54 Dantonic: /sbin/ifconfig Nov 28 11:28:55 myip or smth Nov 28 11:29:03 "personal ip" Nov 28 11:29:08 its awesome Nov 28 11:29:09 Dantonic: you can call it without any special priviliges Nov 28 11:29:18 I see Nov 28 11:29:20 thanks Nov 28 11:29:22 got the IP :) Nov 28 11:29:30 (if you really need to know the ip all the time) Nov 28 11:29:31 and "personal data plan" tells you how muchdata have usedon 3g Nov 28 11:29:43 that is very nice! Nov 28 11:29:50 and what network type u on Nov 28 11:29:57 yeah, the "personal data plan" is actually useful Nov 28 11:30:04 Does the n900 know magically what APN/... to use with a SIM somehow? Nov 28 11:30:10 i use both in compact mode Nov 28 11:30:11 SpeedEvil: it has a list yeah Nov 28 11:30:18 SpeedEvil: otherwise it's configurable Nov 28 11:30:21 SpeedEvil: it seems to have a built-in list Nov 28 11:30:28 its awesome (n900 thatis) Nov 28 11:30:29 try em all! mwaahaha Nov 28 11:30:48 i can get settings over the air i thought in uk Nov 28 11:30:52 pupnik: My deeply annoying WSP doesn't provide that sort of details... Nov 28 11:30:56 i hope no dorks start doing stupid cell network abuse tricks Nov 28 11:30:57 vodafone Nov 28 11:31:01 ahh Nov 28 11:31:02 pupnik: you can't Nov 28 11:31:06 im with vodafone Nov 28 11:31:19 pupnik: the phone part is just AT commands Nov 28 11:31:20 * Arkenoi had to set it up manually Nov 28 11:31:22 very simple api Nov 28 11:31:24 ah Nov 28 11:31:28 was going to ask Nov 28 11:31:38 pupnik: you don't have any programmatic access to it even if you hack the kernel. Nov 28 11:31:58 i've tried my N900 with 2 of the 4 major networks in poland, and i didn't have to set-up anything by hand Nov 28 11:31:59 (well - maybe not strictly AT commands - but the kernel is not bit-banging the hardware - there is a seperate phone core. Nov 28 11:32:03 honestly, probably the only way *to* build and sell such a thing Nov 28 11:32:04 vodafone uk, has fastest 3g in uk, orange has greatest coverage , three mobile is cheapest Nov 28 11:32:06 "The latest in a parade of hits, Activision’s Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 has sold an estimated $550 million in the first five days of its release, bringing the entire The Call of Duty series $3 billion in sales between its six titles. To put that in perspective, James Bond has been a franchise for 47 years and grossed just over $5 billion." Nov 28 11:32:27 pupnik: Not quite. Some platforms use one core, and trusted computing techniques. Nov 28 11:32:41 crashanddie: lol Nov 28 11:33:06 I was discussing MW2 with our VP of sales in EMEA Nov 28 11:33:15 When we were talking about WM2 results Nov 28 11:33:46 He gleefully came to the conclusion "MW2 made ActiVision as much money in 24 hours as we do in a quarter" Nov 28 11:34:15 nechwarrior2? Nov 28 11:34:18 m Nov 28 11:34:20 I'm in the wrong business Nov 28 11:34:25 cashanddie: insane Nov 28 11:34:32 pupnik, modern warfare, as per the quote above Nov 28 11:34:43 pupnik, neckwarrior sounds like a dodgy porno Nov 28 11:35:19 * pupnik shudders Nov 28 11:35:27 So do many unix commands. Nov 28 11:35:32 lol Nov 28 11:36:43 neckwarrior2: revenge of the larynx Nov 28 11:37:10 "it was monday, april 17. And my neck had just detached itself from my body. It was on a mission." Nov 28 11:39:07 "If by my life or death I can protect you, I will. You have my vocal chords... and you have my elbow... and my [fuck it's hard to find a bodily part that rimes with axe]" Nov 28 11:39:30 paectorals Nov 28 11:39:39 paaaecs Nov 28 11:39:39 lol Nov 28 11:39:42 lol Nov 28 11:39:54 axe rimes with pecs now? Nov 28 11:40:04 axe packs? Nov 28 11:40:04 :P Nov 28 11:40:21 dancing above the fire above the black Nov 28 11:41:05 hairs, maybe? Nov 28 11:41:28 whats best way for irc on n900 ? Nov 28 11:41:32 xchat Nov 28 11:41:33 axe and hairs? Nov 28 11:41:36 God you guys suck at this! Nov 28 11:41:51 xchat in extras-devel ? Nov 28 11:41:51 kynky: screen + irssi maybe Nov 28 11:42:10 crashanddie: coxex. Nov 28 11:42:25 crashanddie: cortex Nov 28 11:42:40 doesn't rhyme with axe either Nov 28 11:42:44 installing screen and irssi, means use debian armel stuff ? or compile myself in sdk ? Nov 28 11:42:55 Coxxyx rather Nov 28 11:42:59 hacks, jacks, fax, facts... Nov 28 11:43:04 coccyx rather Nov 28 11:43:21 cortex and axe are quite close. Nov 28 11:43:22 do you have keyboard working in lxterm/easydebian? for some obscure reason mine does not Nov 28 11:43:23 kynky: you install screen + irssi on server side and use ssh to connect to them Nov 28 11:43:38 se even if your (mobiel) connecton is terminated you don't drop out from the channels Nov 28 11:43:40 moo-_-, can do that already :) Nov 28 11:44:17 but can use irssi as a proxy Nov 28 11:44:17 moo-_-, psybnc? Nov 28 11:44:41 crashanddie: bouncers are not always easier at least Nov 28 11:44:56 crashanddie: but if you want real multiplexed ircing use quassel + quasselcore Nov 28 11:45:09 moo-_-, you're the one asking Nov 28 11:45:10 however, quassel QT user interface is not very suitable for N900 in its current form Nov 28 11:45:30 so basically i can get xchat armel deb and then optify it, then install, or it already optified ? Nov 28 11:45:30 quassel needs a commandline client Nov 28 11:45:30 moo-_-, don't turn the conversation the other way around, please Nov 28 11:45:52 crashanddie: why so serious? ^_^ Nov 28 11:50:53 All right, anyone has a quick sample of About dialog? Nov 28 11:51:38 RST38h, http://www.e-zblaster.com/guide_images3/dialog_about.gif Nov 28 11:52:02 sorry, this is not what I meant. Nov 28 11:53:28 oh, simpler yet? http://www.java2s.com/Tutorial/VBImages/AboutDialog.PNG Nov 28 11:53:45 how about this one? http://www.aeonscope.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/about-dialog.png Nov 28 12:04:57 hey, if I've created an SSH tunnel for VNC can I remove it? does it stay active even after I log off my ssh session? I used the following command: ssh -L 5900:localhost:5900 user@remote_host Nov 28 12:05:05 hi pupnik Nov 28 12:05:18 dantonic you want nx Nov 28 12:05:30 ? Nov 28 12:05:31 which makes graphical sudo Nov 28 12:05:48 nx is nomachine i thought Nov 28 12:05:50 google for nomachine nx Nov 28 12:05:54 Dantonic: add -N Nov 28 12:06:02 kynky in extras devel is qtnx Nov 28 12:06:07 I've no idea what you're talkinga bout woglinde Nov 28 12:06:09 nxclient for n900 ? Nov 28 12:06:12 sweet Nov 28 12:06:14 bloop bloop. woglinde Nov 28 12:06:15 lbt, add -N to do what exactly remove it? Nov 28 12:06:19 hmm, Dantonic I assume you want a tunnel and no console? Nov 28 12:06:24 I ported it to diablo Nov 28 12:06:29 for n900 will follow Nov 28 12:06:38 basically lbt I was just trying to figure out how to vnc through SSH to be more secure Nov 28 12:06:41 but idk what I did Nov 28 12:06:45 now I can no longer vnc at all Nov 28 12:07:01 nxis like vnc but better, secure by default too Nov 28 12:07:01 not even without SSH like before Nov 28 12:07:01 dantonic as I say look into freenx and qtnx Nov 28 12:07:04 yeah, the ssh session is needed since the tunnel uses it Nov 28 12:07:11 bt the console isn't needed Nov 28 12:07:15 it is awesomeness, and then someday some smart guy named me or not-me will make it also stream mpeg4 or something when the screen goes into high-refresh mode (game was started) Nov 28 12:07:19 kynky we even tested it on n810 and umts Nov 28 12:07:22 so : ssh -L 5900:localhost:5900 user@remote_host -N Nov 28 12:07:29 openoffice worked Nov 28 12:07:56 will ask for a pw and then "hang" - ie no shell Nov 28 12:08:01 but there's a tunnel Nov 28 12:08:09 ah Nov 28 12:08:09 so few weeks and qtnx will be on n900 ? Nov 28 12:08:17 and sorry what will that provide? Nov 28 12:08:18 kynky maybee next weej Nov 28 12:08:21 args week Nov 28 12:08:22 wow woglinde, that kind of thing now just needs a video production team :) Nov 28 12:08:26 If I am in the mood Nov 28 12:08:28 so it's suitable for running in the bg Nov 28 12:08:32 what's the reason for doing the -N? Nov 28 12:08:35 "working on my desktop from the train, phone, yacht..." Nov 28 12:08:35 oh Nov 28 12:08:37 even as a daemon Nov 28 12:08:50 woglinde, you're amazing, so didnt wat to revert back to vnc Nov 28 12:08:59 want* Nov 28 12:09:03 kynky its simple install sdk take fremantle env download the packages from diablo Nov 28 12:09:08 compile for fremantle Nov 28 12:09:12 lbt, so how do I terminate it? Nov 28 12:09:13 i needs surgery Nov 28 12:09:15 just Ctrl C? Nov 28 12:09:16 damn Nov 28 12:09:18 yes Nov 28 12:09:24 pupnik: Know of any example of creating a decent About dialog in Maemo? Nov 28 12:09:26 but I wanted to update it to the latest nx libs Nov 28 12:09:34 now once I've terminated it lbt the tunnel no longer exists? Nov 28 12:09:36 pupnik: The default GtkAboutDialog looks extremely ugly Nov 28 12:09:46 err..... correct Nov 28 12:10:03 moo rst Nov 28 12:10:08 hi lbt btw. Nov 28 12:10:10 * RST38h moos at woglinde Nov 28 12:10:20 hi woglinde :) Nov 28 12:10:29 * kynky working on removing holding hands at boot Nov 28 12:10:38 kynky maybee tomorrow I will do it Nov 28 12:10:51 some one knows if sdk+ works now with latest fremantle? Nov 28 12:11:00 kynky: that's the boot movie Nov 28 12:11:09 you can add/remove it easily Nov 28 12:11:12 ibt, yeah, should b really simple Nov 28 12:11:21 woglinde, :) Nov 28 12:11:23 search wiki/tmo Nov 28 12:11:49 ibt, just looking into what to replace it with ;) Nov 28 12:12:14 does anyone know ehre to get system informations about plugged in/out headsets (whether they are recognized or not, and how) apart from dmesg? Nov 28 12:12:18 kynky: it's Lbt btw... Nov 28 12:12:24 *where Nov 28 12:12:28 Lorthirk: dbus Nov 28 12:12:36 hal Nov 28 12:12:44 lbt, sorry :) Nov 28 12:12:52 wasnt hal dead? Nov 28 12:12:57 is it? Nov 28 12:13:02 in near future Nov 28 12:13:06 I heard something Nov 28 12:13:11 sounds daft Nov 28 12:13:17 so could be Nov 28 12:13:24 dbus AND hal? Nov 28 12:13:28 both of them have info? Nov 28 12:13:37 no hal provides the info to dbus Nov 28 12:13:39 parts if hal being replaced by devicekit or consolekit, cant remember Nov 28 12:13:45 thats what dbus is for Nov 28 12:13:57 so who i should query? :) Nov 28 12:14:09 RST38h: maybe you should make your 'About' open a web page stored in the game data. Nov 28 12:14:30 Lorthirk: listen to dbus Nov 28 12:14:35 ok Nov 28 12:14:36 and plug in the headset Nov 28 12:14:40 and see what you get Nov 28 12:14:59 ok thanks Nov 28 12:15:19 dbus-monitor Nov 28 12:15:36 my suggestion is probably bad for some reasons i can't fathom Nov 28 12:27:08 pupnik: I really wanted to play by the rules and use GtkAboutDialog Nov 28 12:27:20 pupnik: But it appears to suck royally, until in Maemo5 Nov 28 12:31:11 2 Nov 28 12:31:18 uups Nov 28 12:33:30 oh Nov 28 12:33:46 RST38h: why use about dialog - put the info on splash screen and move to something else? Nov 28 12:33:57 or is it just to play nice with tradition Nov 28 12:35:18 * RST38h tried that too Nov 28 12:38:29 i wonder if an emulator author has ever entered 'easter eggs' to fool the user into thinking they discovered an egg in their emulated software Nov 28 12:38:44 this is too deep for me, sorry =) Nov 28 12:39:58