**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 29 02:59:57 2009 Nov 29 03:11:14 johnx: heh. i dunno Nov 29 03:11:21 johnx: they keep having one bad moment after another Nov 29 03:11:27 i hope they survive Nov 29 03:11:46 yeah. the chevy volt is an awesome idea Nov 29 03:12:09 exactly the right compromises. I'm even happy with the styling (which is totally rare for me to say about chevy) Nov 29 03:21:19 i haven't even seen what a volt looks like Nov 29 03:21:36 http://gm-volt.com/ Nov 29 03:21:53 http://modernizedcaveman.com/chevyvolt.jpg Nov 29 03:22:00 it looks like a newer camero Nov 29 03:22:08 that's a concept Nov 29 03:22:18 not even close to the final look, thankfully Nov 29 03:22:31 http://www.autobytel.com/images/Autoshows/2006/Detroit/Concept/400/ChevyCameroCncpt_3.jpg Nov 29 03:22:51 looks like they were both off the same drawing board :) Nov 29 03:23:02 let me check your site out Nov 29 03:23:40 wow is that thing ugly :) Nov 29 03:23:48 eye of the beholder I guess Nov 29 03:23:52 yeah Nov 29 03:23:56 it kind of reminds me of a longer prius Nov 29 03:23:57 kinda reminds me of the civic Nov 29 03:24:05 especially the front Nov 29 03:24:17 except for that god-awful grille Nov 29 03:24:24 seriously...just why?! Nov 29 03:26:24 hahaha Nov 29 03:26:48 they wanted it to look like a mean face Nov 29 03:26:50 :) Nov 29 03:27:26 http://www.gm-volt.com/galleries/album/72157607038955164/photo/3612157004/production-chevy-volt-blackchevyvolt77-jpg.html Nov 29 03:27:33 can someone clarify something for me? The "show_search_dlg" method in http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/libconbtui/src/conbtdialogs-dbus.h lists DBUS_TYPE_ARRAY for one of the parameters. I'm trying to use that call in Qt, and I can't figure out what type maps to that Nov 29 03:27:35 you know right there.. in the air intake at the bottom Nov 29 03:27:47 i'd lace it with night rider red leds Nov 29 03:27:49 hahaha Nov 29 03:28:07 as best as I can tell, it's a QList of some sort, but I'm not sure which type to template it with Nov 29 03:28:22 * pupnik_ stares at 4:28 Nov 29 03:28:34 who said prius! Nov 29 03:28:37 * AakashPatel pet his Nov 29 03:35:26 AakashPatel, I'd rather have a CRX :) Nov 29 03:35:46 the volt is kind of a different thing. not saying the prius isn't nice, but it's not for me Nov 29 03:35:57 ...what straight man would want a prius Nov 29 03:35:57 haha Nov 29 03:36:13 but they do have a shit ton of features Nov 29 03:36:23 * AakashPatel watches his park itself Nov 29 03:36:26 you sound somewhat insecure with your sexual identity... Nov 29 03:36:32 a straight man with big Volts Nov 29 03:36:34 Haha my dad got it Nov 29 03:36:56 heh. now I'm really confused Nov 29 03:37:09 no for that you need NUTS-n-VOLTS Nov 29 03:37:48 johnx: hah he travels alot, so it was teh best solution Nov 29 03:38:18 beats a 48Volt goCart Nov 29 03:38:38 meanwhile my commute fits easily within 40 miles so a volt would be awesome, especially if I could charge it at work :> Nov 29 03:38:56 Get a Tesla Model S lol Nov 29 03:39:03 * AakashPatel wants to reserve one soon Nov 29 03:39:09 I'd love one Nov 29 03:39:18 sadly, I need a *house* before I need a tesla :P Nov 29 03:39:27 Haha I see Nov 29 03:39:59 plus, the volt range extending just sound nice to have Nov 29 03:40:23 Yeah, what is it...300 miles? Nov 29 03:40:30 I mean, a volt could be my only car, a tesla? not so much Nov 29 03:40:40 erm Nov 29 03:40:43 i read taht wrong Nov 29 03:41:07 s/car,/car./ Nov 29 03:41:08 johnx meant: I mean, a volt could be my only car. a tesla? not so much Nov 29 03:41:11 does that help? Nov 29 03:41:26 Why can't a Tesla be your only car? Nov 29 03:41:32 road trips Nov 29 03:41:48 Eh, just take 45min breaks every 300 miles lol Nov 29 03:41:54 I mean, what happens if you get 300 miles and can't find a power socket you can sit by for 8 hours? Nov 29 03:41:59 that kinda sucks Nov 29 03:42:14 45 minutes for a full charge? nah. I don't buy it Nov 29 03:42:44 80% Nov 29 03:42:48 is what they say Nov 29 03:42:57 But thats with like 480 volts Nov 29 03:42:58 haha Nov 29 03:43:02 yeah Nov 29 03:43:17 What about 480 volts? Nov 29 03:43:29 Sargun_Screen: To charge a Tesla Model S in 45 mins Nov 29 03:43:37 Ah, yeah. Nov 29 03:43:38 I can just picture getting to a small town with one gas station. "Hi. can I unplug your arc welder and plug my car in for like an hour?" "hahahaha. no. wanna buy some gas?" Nov 29 03:43:46 Hahaha Nov 29 03:43:49 My dad is getting one of those. Nov 29 03:43:57 Sweet Nov 29 03:43:58 How much does a 480V generator cost. Nov 29 03:44:07 very cool Nov 29 03:44:09 Cost, who knows, size? Nov 29 03:44:28 AakashPatel: I can fit it in the back of my Lexus Nov 29 03:44:36 you could step up from 120V...but I don't think you'd have the amperage to charge the car in 45 minutes without burning down your house Nov 29 03:44:37 Are you gonna tow your lexus? Nov 29 03:44:38 haha Nov 29 03:44:46 yeah johnx Nov 29 03:45:48 AakashPatel: The S has a trunk. Nov 29 03:45:54 Two of em :0 Nov 29 03:46:21 Sargun_Screen: I just had to say that thing about towing it hah Nov 29 03:46:31 * Sargun_Screen wonders if the S is going to have the same shipping schedule as the Nokia N900. Nov 29 03:46:37 D: Nov 29 03:46:53 a lot closer to the pandora I think :) Nov 29 03:46:54 I wonder how big the queue i Nov 29 03:46:56 is* Nov 29 03:46:58 damn butters cracks me up Nov 29 03:46:58 3 months late. Nov 29 03:47:01 an awesome project, that's always 2 months away :) Nov 29 03:47:02 do you know what i am talking about? Nov 29 03:47:08 Macer: hahaha Nov 29 03:47:18 johnx: The Pandora is dead. Nov 29 03:47:21 he had me in tears every time he said that :) Nov 29 03:47:22 Oh no Nov 29 03:47:23 its alive Nov 29 03:47:29 Sargun_Screen, the radio or the linux handheld? Nov 29 03:47:30 In my eyes it's deada. Nov 29 03:47:38 there is a pandora radio? Nov 29 03:47:41 I meant the box. Nov 29 03:47:41 Sargun_Screen: Good enough to be dead Nov 29 03:47:42 :-P Nov 29 03:47:45 Might as wekk get an N900 lol Nov 29 03:47:50 same specs Nov 29 03:47:59 what ever happened to the pandora? Nov 29 03:48:06 wasn't it supposed to be some sort of gaming device? Nov 29 03:48:07 AakashPatel: Close, but not quite. The form factor is better for many people Nov 29 03:48:14 Macer, the finished the moulds and should be producing final cases soonish Nov 29 03:48:31 johnx: didn't they say that a year ago? Nov 29 03:48:31 :) Nov 29 03:48:46 after the touchbook i wouldn't buy that pandora garbage Nov 29 03:48:46 Macer, nah. they have pics of the finished stainless steel molds now :) Nov 29 03:48:47 haha Nov 29 03:48:53 renders? :) Nov 29 03:49:07 does it do the t1000 morph when accessing skynet? Nov 29 03:49:07 Macer, that's like saying: After buying an HP, I wouldn't buy a Dell Nov 29 03:49:13 how does b follow from a? Nov 29 03:49:22 anyways, I'm looking forward to hacking on it. Nov 29 03:49:22 I take it back, the generator that was in the back of my car was 240VAC Nov 29 03:49:23 possibly Nov 29 03:49:24 :) Nov 29 03:49:43 more like. i bought a macbook so i am never getting a mac mini Nov 29 03:49:44 Sargun_Screen: Well this is your day Nov 29 03:49:48 Macer, I actually got to see a touchbook in real life. looked neat, but really fragile Nov 29 03:49:49 The Model S has two trunks Nov 29 03:49:50 haha Nov 29 03:50:01 johnx: it follows that after buying an HP he was so happy he would then never buy a dell :)? Nov 29 03:50:14 johnx: i sold mine to Stskeeps who had me send it to w00t Nov 29 03:50:18 Xisdibik, yup. Macer shore loves his touchbook :> Nov 29 03:50:24 hehe Nov 29 03:50:27 lawl Nov 29 03:50:28 AakashPatel: I should ask my dad if they have a prototype at a dealer Nov 29 03:50:42 Yeah, I would love to see one also Nov 29 03:50:44 In real life Nov 29 03:50:58 (buyin a car before seeing it is...not the best of things to do) Nov 29 03:50:59 lol Nov 29 03:51:09 i'm just saying that after preordering and having high expectations for a touchbook.. i can see the same problems with the pandora Nov 29 03:51:09 Macer is a perfect example! Nov 29 03:51:17 The Tesla is awesome. It goes like uber fast without any noise Nov 29 03:51:21 kinda scary almost. Nov 29 03:51:34 plus. i just don't see the need for a pandora when you can get an n900 Nov 29 03:51:35 That will be so tight Nov 29 03:51:47 Sargun_Screen: It sounds so cool when your in a prius and its on pure electric Nov 29 03:51:52 but the tesla will go all the time like that Nov 29 03:51:53 :0 Nov 29 03:52:11 Macer, my main purposes are actually going to be 1) hacking and 2) gaming Nov 29 03:52:20 nah, it's not really a consumer device in that regard Nov 29 03:52:28 AakashPatel: but it goes Really fucking fast Nov 29 03:52:38 AakashPatel: and the torque is nuts on it. Nov 29 03:52:40 but the possibilities seem exciting, and I don't have to worry about making it unbootable and missing a phone call Nov 29 03:52:42 I know Nov 29 03:52:47 it literally puts you in your seat Nov 29 03:52:48 its like 5 secs to go 0-60 Nov 29 03:52:54 in the model S Nov 29 03:53:05 the other one is like 3.6 secs Nov 29 03:53:06 AakashPatel: I've only seen the Tesla Roadster Nov 29 03:53:12 yeah the roadster Nov 29 03:53:14 that bastard, flaunting his N900. Nov 29 03:53:36 * Sargun_Screen has gotten a "preparing for launch" message from AMAZON Nov 29 03:53:59 Sargun_Screen, they know where you live! get to the bomb shelter! Nov 29 03:54:24 * Sargun_Screen is about an hour from his house Nov 29 03:54:25 BS really Sargun_Screen ? Nov 29 03:54:30 amazon? Nov 29 03:54:32 AakashPatel: huh? yeah Nov 29 03:54:38 :0 Nov 29 03:54:46 hm.. how do i make media player show full filenames.. Nov 29 03:54:54 where's it say that Sargun_Screen Nov 29 03:54:56 Let me get a screen shot. Nov 29 03:54:57 ShadowJK_, switch to "category view" Nov 29 03:55:44 well that's intuitive ;) Nov 29 03:55:52 ahahaha Nov 29 03:55:52 bahaha Nov 29 03:55:53 lol Nov 29 03:56:18 ShadowJK_, intuitivity will be added in a future release Nov 29 03:56:18 with that, enough text fits that i can distinguish the files :) Nov 29 03:58:02 exactly one char difference, the last char shown :) Nov 29 03:58:14 descrptive filenames :/ Nov 29 03:58:34 Sargun_Screen: Heh, I was gonna order from Nokia tomorrow, but guess now amazon haha Nov 29 03:59:51 Sargun_Screen: SCREENSHOT? Nov 29 04:00:04 caps lock also Nov 29 04:00:36 http://xbmodder.us/tmp/amzn.png Nov 29 04:00:51 Delivered. Nov 29 04:01:07 PS: you can unblackout it, but don't. Nov 29 04:01:10 When did you place your doer? Nov 29 04:01:16 it says, doesn't it? Nov 29 04:01:19 Oh Nov 29 04:01:20 OH Nov 29 04:01:22 october 8 Nov 29 04:01:25 of course yours will ship Nov 29 04:01:26 haha Nov 29 04:01:29 10/08/09 Nov 29 04:01:34 if you use american style Nov 29 04:01:40 2009-10-08 if you use sargun style. Nov 29 04:01:51 I thought you said that it was preparing for release or somethign Nov 29 04:01:52 lol Nov 29 04:01:56 Guess its nokia again then Nov 29 04:02:20 AakashPatel: AMZN is pretty good at shipping them Nov 29 04:02:31 shipping shit in general Nov 29 04:02:35 Yeah Nov 29 04:02:43 But i've been hearing alot fo poeple havent evne shipped yet Nov 29 04:02:47 from amazon Nov 29 04:02:55 of poeples* Nov 29 04:03:12 Sargun_Screen: And it still says not released lol Nov 29 04:03:23 While nokias says...IN STOCK MOTHA FUCKA Nov 29 04:03:23 AakashPatel: It isn't. Nov 29 04:03:30 Yeah it is... Nov 29 04:03:31 I should ask my friend who works tere. Nov 29 04:03:42 really? nokia says "IN STOCK MUDDAFUCCKA" Nov 29 04:03:43 That would be so tight if you did lol Nov 29 04:03:50 it would be Nov 29 04:03:51 Sargun_Screen: I can make it if you gimme 5 mins Nov 29 04:03:52 lol Nov 29 04:04:17 uhm Nov 29 04:04:19 ok, let's see it Nov 29 04:04:23 okay hold on Nov 29 04:05:03 one more min... Nov 29 04:05:24 Has te Nokia store actually shipped Nov 29 04:05:57 okay more than a min Nov 29 04:05:58 lol Nov 29 04:06:02 I hear that AMZN is gunna ship next week sometime Nov 29 04:06:04 i'vebeen yearing it Nov 29 04:07:32 okay updaloding Nov 29 04:08:13 http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6673/picture15er.png Nov 29 04:09:01 Sargun_Screen: ask your friend who works for amzn Nov 29 04:09:01 lol Nov 29 04:09:06 AakashPatel: I will Nov 29 04:09:12 haha Nov 29 04:09:32 ok. simpsons was kind of funny when krusty said "do you have ink for an amiga brand fax machine?" Nov 29 04:10:06 Sargun_Screen: Lol before monday? if not ill order from nokia if it doesnt say instock by tomorrow evening Nov 29 04:19:56 * microlith averts his eyes from the image of nokia usa's website Nov 29 04:20:33 Hahaha Nov 29 04:58:21 argegghgh Nov 29 04:58:25 * AakashPatel cant make up his mind Nov 29 04:58:30 Nokia USA store Nov 29 04:58:31 Or amazon Nov 29 04:59:43 amazon hasn't shipped yet Nov 29 04:59:59 and half the time nokia's website doesn't work Nov 29 05:00:13 but IF my order goes through Nokia's site Nov 29 05:00:19 How long you think itll be Nov 29 05:00:52 *shrug* Nov 29 05:01:28 :( Nov 29 05:01:37 thats the dilemma im in haha Nov 29 05:01:51 i'd think nokia would ship sooner Nov 29 05:01:56 but really no idea Nov 29 05:02:47 Eh yeah Nov 29 05:02:51 hm Nov 29 05:02:58 anybody know how you download videos on a ps3 Nov 29 05:03:01 like from the browser Nov 29 05:03:10 instead of them opening and trying to play from the site? Nov 29 05:03:10 hmm, application manager says there is mbarcode update available, but when i select it i get "unable to update mbarcode" Nov 29 05:03:26 LONG CLICK ON THE LINK Nov 29 05:03:28 tee hee Nov 29 05:03:31 heh Nov 29 05:03:46 it's not for me. someone i know is trying to use his ps3 to download videos of my son for him and his wife Nov 29 05:04:05 did you google it? Nov 29 05:04:07 it's my old buddy from the USMC... sorry bastard only had a laptop that broke :) Nov 29 05:04:17 AakashPatel: yeah . i saw a video but i don't understand it without having a ps3 myself Nov 29 05:04:34 ...tell him to go on youtube and search??? Nov 29 05:04:40 did that too Nov 29 05:04:42 he has a browser with flash haha Nov 29 05:04:54 he will try it tomorrow he said.. but the video is confusing Nov 29 05:05:08 Okay Nov 29 05:05:22 Now solve my problem Nov 29 05:05:27 AMAZON OR NOKIA Nov 29 05:05:39 nokia Nov 29 05:05:56 it costs more but you know it works :) Nov 29 05:06:12 lol so would amazons Nov 29 05:06:35 nope Nov 29 05:06:39 amazon is like retail ebay Nov 29 05:06:48 amazon rox Nov 29 05:06:54 i buy shit from them all the time Nov 29 05:07:02 but they dont have stock :( Nov 29 05:07:07 i do too.. but for something like an n900 i'd rather get it from nokia :) Nov 29 05:07:22 Hmmm okay Nov 29 05:07:55 phones are like samurai swords.. only the best of swordsmiths get the best pick of the steel Nov 29 05:08:01 the rest are given the garbage :) Nov 29 05:08:15 [citation required] Nov 29 05:08:22 lol Nov 29 05:08:32 yeah they might cut things.. but they will break in battle :) Nov 29 05:09:23 Who told you this. Nov 29 05:09:25 Lol.. Nov 29 05:09:27 -. Nov 29 05:09:30 o.o Nov 29 05:11:52 the samurai sword thing? Nov 29 05:11:59 saw a NG special on it :) Nov 29 05:14:26 wtf Nov 29 05:14:34 i'm a little confused as to why this version of fight club is like 27G Nov 29 05:14:51 NG? lol Nov 29 05:19:49 Traditionaly, tamahagane is only made three or four times a year by Nittoho and Hitachi Metals[5] during winter in a wood building and is only sold to the master swordsmiths to use once it is made. Nov 29 05:20:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamahagane Nov 29 05:20:16 god bless wikiipedia Nov 29 05:20:18 i have to donate :) Nov 29 05:20:41 amen Nov 29 05:21:38 lol Nov 29 05:21:48 <= cheap Nov 29 05:25:01 WE KNOW Nov 29 05:26:25 rashed2020: BREATH Nov 29 05:26:35 who said Macer knew i was cheap Nov 29 05:27:02 Macer should join us at the shithole we call home Nov 29 05:27:30 i think i jut did Nov 29 05:27:36 that's a pretty strange thing to call a shithole Nov 29 05:27:42 I call mine "ass" Nov 29 05:27:48 then i'll be at 39 bans only Nov 29 05:27:53 hahaha Nov 29 05:30:28 johnx: you gotta see our home Nov 29 05:30:53 yeahhh Nov 29 05:31:26 sorry to hear that Nov 29 05:32:34 johnx: i challenge you to a duel Nov 29 05:32:50 doo-el Nov 29 05:33:00 rashed2020, duly noted Nov 29 05:33:27 its about time someone testing your magazine comprehension skills Nov 29 05:33:32 tested* Nov 29 05:34:28 magazine comprehension? I haven't read a magazine in like years I think Nov 29 05:34:42 hmm.. you're not so bad after all Nov 29 05:34:56 nah, just very confused Nov 29 05:39:25 night johnx / all Nov 29 05:39:28 * rm_you sleeps Nov 29 05:39:43 'night rm_you|sleep Nov 29 05:48:26 does n900 support all the cmds that can be natively run on linux machine? Nov 29 05:48:40 yeah Nov 29 05:48:41 example ps -ef , ls so on Nov 29 05:48:47 erm Nov 29 05:48:48 not sure Nov 29 05:48:50 probably lol Nov 29 05:48:59 debian based Nov 29 05:49:01 so.. Nov 29 05:49:25 wrapster, it's debian, but the shell is ash (instead of bash) and the utils are busybox instead of GNU coreutils Nov 29 05:49:35 s/debian/debian-based/ Nov 29 05:49:36 johnx meant: wrapster, it's debian-based, but the shell is ash (instead of bash) and the utils are busybox instead of GNU coreutils Nov 29 05:49:55 aw why Nov 29 05:50:07 why what? Nov 29 05:50:12 its busybox Nov 29 05:50:17 intsead of GNU coreutils Nov 29 05:50:18 space Nov 29 05:50:21 ah Nov 29 05:50:24 infobot: / johnx : but can i test it somehow.. i mean i have logged into /scratchbox/login Nov 29 05:50:52 nah, scratchbox has bash and coreutils I believe Nov 29 05:51:01 hmm.... Nov 29 05:51:05 how do i test it then? Nov 29 05:51:14 if you just had a question about a couple commands I can run them for you Nov 29 05:51:44 johnx: could you please try ps -ef / grep / awk ? Nov 29 05:52:12 sure, but for those commands you'll want to look at the busybox help files Nov 29 05:52:13 johnx: ls as well. Nov 29 05:52:36 johnx: is there a link that i can follow? Nov 29 05:53:02 http://www.busybox.net/downloads/BusyBox.html Nov 29 05:53:22 do you want to know if the commands are there? or what the output looks like? or what options are available? Nov 29 05:53:47 so yeah, ps -ef, ls, grep, and awk are all there Nov 29 06:00:59 well. i think i have officially ran out of anything good to watch Nov 29 06:01:17 how do you do that with 5TB of movies and shows Nov 29 06:01:26 i am hording them too. i need to rm a lot of it Nov 29 06:06:57 Macer, there's a cool space shuttle video on slashdot Nov 29 06:10:07 heh Nov 29 06:10:43 i'm watching the simpsons where all the kids have cell phones Nov 29 06:11:02 omg that cracked me up Nov 29 06:11:25 well, don't all kids have cell phones now? Nov 29 06:11:29 yeah Nov 29 06:11:31 mostly Nov 29 06:11:42 but she told them to put them on vibrate and the damn things were louder than they were ringing Nov 29 06:12:19 they have someone else doing the voice of the teacher Nov 29 06:16:12 lol. "that text was almost worth the 15 cents it cost for me to receive it" Nov 29 06:23:09 i wonder what kids think computers are Nov 29 06:23:24 when i first saw them, they had screens. and we typed commands into them. and they spat out answers Nov 29 06:23:30 i thought that was the point of a computer Nov 29 06:23:51 now everything has a computer Nov 29 06:24:09 everything is waking up Nov 29 06:24:13 mhm Nov 29 06:24:26 screens? :) Nov 29 06:24:37 but to think like a consumer, i have to stop being interested in the computer, and start realizing that the consumer is really, really only interested in the appliance Nov 29 06:24:38 not teletypes, punchwriters and so on? Nov 29 06:24:49 20 years ago, the routing in google maps would probably have been classed as some form of AI :) Nov 29 06:24:49 Has anyone here tried x11vnc'ing into their device? Nov 29 06:24:49 and in some ways i will never, ever be able to grasp how other people see these devices. Nov 29 06:25:16 morning Ford_Prefect - not I Nov 29 06:25:23 Heya pupnik_ :) Nov 29 06:25:34 So close to making it work. Nov 29 06:25:34 Its morning her also Nov 29 06:25:37 0:25 Nov 29 06:25:37 haha Nov 29 06:25:53 Ford_Prefect, just did it. it's not all that fast Nov 29 06:26:04 works fine though Nov 29 06:26:43 johnx, mouse works fine for you? Nov 29 06:26:49 mostly Nov 29 06:27:15 kinda jumpy, and can't seem to register a click on everything for some reason Nov 29 06:27:24 Even on wifi? Nov 29 06:27:29 johnx, that's better than here - I don't even get the curssor Nov 29 06:27:37 i don't know what all the other kids think of it, but i'm making my n900 my portable dev environment Nov 29 06:27:41 * arachnist 's testing the tv-out Nov 29 06:27:50 looks cool Nov 29 06:27:55 simula: o.o Nov 29 06:28:03 Ford_Prefect, all I get is the native cursor on the machine I'm connecting from Nov 29 06:28:16 I use comptuers to do that cuz i dont have an extra 100 yrs of life Nov 29 06:28:16 haha Nov 29 06:28:38 johnx, my cursor disappears when it enters the VNC area Nov 29 06:28:43 the n900 is a pretty righteous computer :) Nov 29 06:28:47 Getting tightvnc to get another data point Nov 29 06:28:48 Ford_Prefect, which vnc client? Nov 29 06:28:56 simula_: Compile the linux kernel Nov 29 06:28:58 also, which OS are you connecting from? Nov 29 06:29:00 Tell us how long it takes lol Nov 29 06:29:11 johnx, vinagre Nov 29 06:29:15 vnc has some issues with pointer and keyboard mappings Nov 29 06:29:19 i'll be compiling the Qt sdk... it'll take longer Nov 29 06:29:28 Ouch Nov 29 06:29:32 Ford_Prefect, try vncviewer host:0 Nov 29 06:29:32 taht took a long time on my comp Nov 29 06:29:52 then i'll be running qt-creator on my little portable computer Nov 29 06:29:57 simula_: lawl see how hot your phone gets Nov 29 06:29:57 johnx, will do - just getting tightvnc to try that Nov 29 06:30:20 it maxes out at 1 watt, so not too hot Nov 29 06:30:23 simula_: My goal will be to try to use my laptop less also Nov 29 06:30:39 simula_: On my HTC Dream it gets HOT when using EDGE data Nov 29 06:30:40 lol Nov 29 06:46:12 johnx, no luck with the mouse Nov 29 06:46:21 Using vncviewer, I mean Nov 29 06:46:26 interesting Nov 29 06:46:33 it should show a little bkack dot Nov 29 06:46:40 *black Nov 29 06:47:25 It is, that's the cursor tracked by the host Nov 29 06:47:51 when i do a copy from the brwoser Nov 29 06:47:54 i cant seem to paste to email or IM Nov 29 06:47:56 should i? Nov 29 06:48:03 where is it supposed to be pasted to? Nov 29 06:48:10 xchat wastes too much space compared to irssi on n900 Nov 29 06:48:19 yes you should Nov 29 06:48:26 Ford_Prefect, yeah, and when you click it should work... Nov 29 06:48:29 pupnik_: n900 has irssi? where Nov 29 06:48:35 o.O Nov 29 06:48:37 the N900 will never draw a cursor Nov 29 06:48:38 johnx, doesn't. But I did find this - http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/X11vnc_on_Maemo Nov 29 06:49:03 asidjazz: i have not had that problem - when copying text, you should see a yellow bar appear. did you see the bar? Nov 29 06:49:18 pupnik_: in the browser? hmm Nov 29 06:49:22 i mean i go into manipulation mode Nov 29 06:49:23 asidjazz: irssi through screen running on another computer Nov 29 06:49:24 hihglihgt the text Nov 29 06:49:25 hit menu Nov 29 06:49:32 i try that now Nov 29 06:49:33 pupnik_: yea thats what i do, irssi via screen via ssh Nov 29 06:49:39 and i hit copy... Nov 29 06:49:44 then i go to email and ctrl+v .. nothin Nov 29 06:50:16 Ford_Prefect, you're using x11vnc on the device, right? Nov 29 06:50:23 johnx, yes Nov 29 06:50:49 you must see the message that your text was copied asidjazz Nov 29 06:50:49 in browser Nov 29 06:50:49 through the icon it makes? or running it on the command line? Nov 29 06:50:49 try pasting to xterminal or another app also Nov 29 06:50:49 yea i get no yellow bar when hitting 'copy' in my browser Nov 29 06:50:59 johnx, Looks like I need to enable XInput in the X startup script (according to that forum.nokia.com page) Nov 29 06:51:01 pupnik_: yea im ont seein that Nov 29 06:51:27 Ford_Prefect, I guess so, but I definitely didn't do that, unless the x11vnc install did that for me... Nov 29 06:51:30 sorry i don't see the yellow when i use copy from menu Nov 29 06:51:40 how else do you use copy? Nov 29 06:51:42 asidjazz: one only sees it in browser when using ctrl+C to copy Nov 29 06:52:03 ctrl+c does nothing either Nov 29 06:52:05 johnx, didn't do it for me. Maybe because of firmware differences. Nov 29 06:52:07 now i don't see the yellow bar with ctrl+c either Nov 29 06:52:10 do i need to turn on ctrl+c and ctrl+v somewher? Nov 29 06:52:11 :( Nov 29 06:52:17 no. something is strange Nov 29 06:52:41 copy and paste works here though Nov 29 06:52:48 ok it worked whe i closed eveyrthing and copied text from google.com to the termianl Nov 29 06:52:53 Ford_Prefect, 42-11? or some internal thing? if you want I can test the Nokia internal version here if you send it to me ;) Nov 29 06:53:06 asidjazz: maybe file a bug to add ctrl+v to email client Nov 29 06:53:40 i cannot test email amt Nov 29 06:53:47 johnx, hehe, not sure how to get the fw version till I can play with the gui Nov 29 06:55:50 pasting to im works Nov 29 06:55:53 email nope Nov 29 06:57:29 does google maps blow shit up Nov 29 06:57:39 is google gonna make a google maps for maemo? nokia maps blows Nov 29 06:57:53 i seriously need to make a new server Nov 29 06:57:59 and use the one i have for only fileserving Nov 29 06:58:25 mostly because my dated server doesn't have virtualization support which seriosly hinders vbox Nov 29 06:59:56 google maps seems to work fine on the maemo browser for me Nov 29 07:00:25 macer, the new phenom II's are quite sweet with vbox Nov 29 07:00:26 * RST38h suggests Macer to screw the servers and go for a nature walk Nov 29 07:01:23 Seriously, why spend so much time on IT? Nov 29 07:01:28 Macer: Get x2 6-core Xeons Nov 29 07:01:32 does the maemo sdk have an emulator? Nov 29 07:01:37 Yes Nov 29 07:01:41 it... blech Nov 29 07:01:48 sorta kinda Nov 29 07:01:59 They dont like it if you call it an emulator Nov 29 07:02:03 I asked and they changed to topic just cuz Nov 29 07:02:04 haha Nov 29 07:02:07 Oh swee Nov 29 07:02:08 t Nov 29 07:02:11 Its gone Nov 29 07:02:11 lol Nov 29 07:02:18 whats my 1st step installing the latest debian? any faq on just hte debian part? Nov 29 07:02:22 like particular install? Nov 29 07:02:27 I used ubuntu Nov 29 07:02:29 the latest one Nov 29 07:02:37 And then jsut run the GUI installer on the SDK Nov 29 07:02:41 asidjazz: go to www.google.com and type "debian install howto"? Nov 29 07:02:44 if i could cross-compile on an x86-64 ubuntu box to n900/32/arm, that would be sweet Nov 29 07:02:56 i mean... i'm sure i can, but if a ready built environment existed, that would be sweet Nov 29 07:02:56 RST38h: i konw how to install debian, asking if i need a particular version/install Nov 29 07:03:06 AakashPatel: noway? not distro dependant eh? Nov 29 07:03:15 AakashPatel: just gotta have apt packaging? Nov 29 07:03:20 Uh Nov 29 07:03:29 i Saw something about it not workin on a version of debian Nov 29 07:03:30 err pkg or whatever Nov 29 07:03:34 So just use the latest Ubuntu lol Nov 29 07:05:25 ah says mainly debian and ubuntu Nov 29 07:05:30 yea i like ubuntu alot more imuh do that Nov 29 07:05:45 hey Nov 29 07:05:56 AakashPatel: you did 9.10 ? Nov 29 07:06:04 asidjazz: yepp Nov 29 07:06:11 does anyone know where are the 2 missing apples in the bounce game? Nov 29 07:06:31 o.O Nov 29 07:06:35 its 1:06 here Nov 29 07:06:38 feck Nov 29 07:06:43 i can only find 12 out of 14 Nov 29 07:07:03 * asidjazz leeching ubuntu and vmware 7 Nov 29 07:08:12 asidjazz, vmplayer will work Nov 29 07:08:21 also, good luck "leeching" ubuntu :) Nov 29 07:08:24 asidjazz: for the sdk you mean? Nov 29 07:08:39 asidjazz: latest ubuntu will do Nov 29 07:08:45 johnx: i have 7 workstation licensed through work alrd Nov 29 07:08:55 7 is rad Nov 29 07:08:57 then you can't leech it. sorry :) Nov 29 07:08:59 But do make sure you have got normal 32bit x86 installation Nov 29 07:09:06 when you full screen in linux xwindows it changes the rez to that size Nov 29 07:09:17 AMD people historically had problems Nov 29 07:09:25 yea this lappy is x86 Nov 29 07:09:37 free'd up about 10gb this should be plenty Nov 29 07:09:46 RST38h, AMD people silly enough to jump on x86_64 distros before multiarch Nov 29 07:09:46 now to grab beers while it dl's Nov 29 07:10:12 love comcast Nov 29 07:10:12 [Time-Taken]: 4 minutes 40 seconds Nov 29 07:10:13 [Avg-Speed]: 1895kB/s Nov 29 07:10:15 johnx: this is too complicated for a cow =) Nov 29 07:11:20 mmmm...multiarch will be very cute Nov 29 07:12:03 you're cute Nov 29 07:12:04 ew no Nov 29 07:12:05 gai Nov 29 07:12:10 XD Nov 29 07:12:16 <_< Nov 29 07:12:18 >_> Nov 29 07:12:22 Hahaha Nov 29 07:14:16 * AakashPatel gets to place his n900 order from nokia tomorrow Nov 29 07:14:20 and you know what that means! Nov 29 07:14:25 N900 by the end of this week :000 Nov 29 07:16:27 :000 Nov 29 07:19:05 I think I know why some people have complained about the n900's touchscreen not being reponsive Nov 29 07:19:25 I had a chance to try it out today. Nov 29 07:19:29 dmj7261, because they are using their noses? Nov 29 07:19:36 dmj7261: how was it??? Nov 29 07:19:36 Very responsive for the most part. Nov 29 07:19:37 but yeah, it does take some getting used to Nov 29 07:19:46 sweet Nov 29 07:19:55 if anyone wants to test "knyghts" lemme know Nov 29 07:20:01 however, I did have to get used to applying pressure to make it swipe. Nov 29 07:20:27 quick question: is there an UPnP app for maemo 5 yet? Nov 29 07:20:43 angelixd, to play things from a UPNP server? Nov 29 07:20:52 ...so for the first ~minute swiping between desktops felt hard. Nov 29 07:21:09 However buttons were very responsive. Nov 29 07:21:14 johnx: to control a UPnP server; like a remote Nov 29 07:21:15 dmj7261, I've found that I use the side of my finger a lot Nov 29 07:21:29 who was kernelconcepts.de ?? back in the 770 days. inz? Nov 29 07:21:36 Using my finger pad I had to "apply pressure." Nov 29 07:21:42 angelixd, ah, that's different then. hmm, I thought something was in the works, but I don't remember now Nov 29 07:21:56 But I didn't feel like I was using pressure with my finger nail. Nov 29 07:22:10 dmj7261: Is there haptic feedback? Nov 29 07:22:17 via vibration? Nov 29 07:22:25 swiping is definitely more intuitive on capacitive. i understand why people like that stuff now. it feels more modern and unreal Nov 29 07:22:29 Yes, but it's not very noticeable Nov 29 07:22:42 Cool Nov 29 07:22:48 I just wanted a little bit Nov 29 07:22:58 pupnik_, i dunno. iphone screens drive me nuts for some reason. but mostly when trying to type Nov 29 07:23:05 I do appreciate the ability to use your finger nail. Nov 29 07:23:10 well, we're going to try and write one tonight :-) Nov 29 07:23:25 johnx: i would hate iphone clicking when my finger barely brushes the capacitative surface Nov 29 07:23:34 angelixd, look up gupnp and rigel (i think it is) Nov 29 07:23:35 i've seen some really odd behavior from cap. touchpads Nov 29 07:23:48 maybe rygel Nov 29 07:23:54 Using the screen gets easier much faster than say the Droid. Nov 29 07:24:07 droid screen and kb SUCK Nov 29 07:24:18 overall feel is real nice eh dmj7261 ? speed of animations, size of buttons, etc Nov 29 07:24:19 The maemo UI is much more consistent than Droid too. Nov 29 07:24:33 terminal needs a mod to hide those shortcut buttons Nov 29 07:24:34 Yeah, camera framerate isn Nov 29 07:24:38 't good though Nov 29 07:24:51 you mean the preview? Nov 29 07:24:55 The buttons were smaller than I expected. Nov 29 07:25:07 the video camera Nov 29 07:25:11 or do you mean stuttering in the encoded video? Nov 29 07:25:16 i think it is 30fps no? Nov 29 07:25:22 or 25 Nov 29 07:25:30 Of course my maemo dev environment is 11 inches diagonally. Nov 29 07:25:42 both preview and encoded video. Nov 29 07:26:05 There was one other window open though. Nov 29 07:26:11 when you say 'frame rate too low' you are probably seeing some dropped frames on playback, caused by other processes consuming cpu Nov 29 07:26:12 ...think it was the bookmarks. Nov 29 07:26:20 hmm Nov 29 07:26:20 dropped frames Nov 29 07:26:30 I hope it actually captured them. Nov 29 07:26:31 depends totally on video of course Nov 29 07:26:40 i filled up with like 20 GB of video Nov 29 07:26:45 been a lot of fun Nov 29 07:26:50 just filming everywhere Nov 29 07:26:56 Whats the max res of vid you can play? Nov 29 07:27:04 This was at the Nokia store before a concert Nov 29 07:27:09 AakashPatel, 800x480 is no problem Nov 29 07:27:12 with the proper codec, 800x480 is certainly possible Nov 29 07:27:14 dunno about much higher than that Nov 29 07:27:17 sweet Nov 29 07:27:17 and the hardware should be able to do 720p Nov 29 07:27:23 :0 Nov 29 07:27:30 with the right codec Nov 29 07:27:41 not really much of a point in 1280x720 unless it's just for compatibility reasons Nov 29 07:28:04 The only reason would be to avoid reencoding Nov 29 07:28:12 yep Nov 29 07:28:17 h264 @ 800x480 should be possible with n900 Nov 29 07:28:26 sweet Nov 29 07:28:28 even 400x240 looks pretty good on a 3.5" screen Nov 29 07:28:28 isnt the 9 trailer @ 720p ? Nov 29 07:28:38 asidjazz, don't think so Nov 29 07:28:39 let's see Nov 29 07:28:50 i wish the fb app would go to lite.facebook.com Nov 29 07:28:52 the screen feels smaller than I had expected. Nov 29 07:28:58 Not too small though. Nov 29 07:29:54 9.mp4 is 800x480 Nov 29 07:30:00 they'd be silly to not make it fit perfectly ;) Nov 29 07:30:14 it looks smaller than the iphone screen Nov 29 07:30:26 mp4 is not really compressed Nov 29 07:30:31 so im not impressed Nov 29 07:30:38 h264 mkv @ 720p id be very impressed Nov 29 07:31:02 Whats the iPhone res? Nov 29 07:31:07 of the screen Nov 29 07:31:09 320x240 Nov 29 07:31:12 lolwut Nov 29 07:31:13 haha Nov 29 07:31:19 does having less desktops conserve battery Nov 29 07:31:20 asidjazz: http://www.google.de/search?q=omap3+720p+video+playback+h.264 Nov 29 07:31:20 dmj7261, like 480x320, isn't it? Nov 29 07:31:21 ...2.5x difference Nov 29 07:31:27 sorry Nov 29 07:31:28 yeah Nov 29 07:31:28 haha Nov 29 07:31:30 johnx is right Nov 29 07:31:33 still Nov 29 07:31:39 still 2.5x difference Nov 29 07:31:46 * AakashPatel lawl'd Nov 29 07:32:21 pupnik_: thats android phones isnt it? Nov 29 07:32:47 asidjazz, mp4 is a family of codecs and also a container format. technically h.264 is a in the MP4 family of codecs unless I'm confused Nov 29 07:33:26 n900 didn't seem that heavy Nov 29 07:33:34 Why do people think it is? Nov 29 07:33:36 btw how long can iphone last with active wifi connection, say, im client? Nov 29 07:33:44 lol FYI when you hide views on desktop and then re-show them it clears all the apps that were on them Nov 29 07:34:09 johnx: im talking more compression level not codec Nov 29 07:34:40 dmj7261: it's about twice as heavy as most of dumb-phones Nov 29 07:34:45 asidjazz, mp4 does not specify a bitrate :) Nov 29 07:35:12 ok so then whats the bitrate of 9 Nov 29 07:35:15 johnx: you're certain? Nov 29 07:35:21 asidjazz: wtf? Nov 29 07:35:28 70grams mroe than my dumb phone Nov 29 07:35:35 luke-jr, you stepped in late. read your scrollback Nov 29 07:35:44 ...didn't feel heavy in my hands though. Nov 29 07:36:03 johnx: Well, DVD-Video at least specifies a maximum bitrate... I wouldn't be surprised if mp4 did the same Nov 29 07:36:08 dmj7261: Have you held a G1 before? Nov 29 07:36:20 not for more than 5 minutes Nov 29 07:36:25 it's not too heavy in my pocket, i don't have a problem carrying it around everywhere Nov 29 07:36:39 luke-jr, at the very least it specifies a range of bit rates. if you're going to be a pedant, at least do it right Nov 29 07:36:42 Does it feel solid? Nov 29 07:36:44 or cheap Nov 29 07:36:51 solid Nov 29 07:36:51 * AakashPatel looks over at his ADP1 Nov 29 07:37:22 the sd card holder thing feels cheap Nov 29 07:37:36 i dont see any docs on bitrate restrictions Nov 29 07:37:40 but im pretty sure there is Nov 29 07:37:43 also, it's not intuitive to insert microsd cards. Nov 29 07:37:56 asidjazz, mplayer says the bitrate is zero :) Nov 29 07:37:57 * dmj7261 tried to put it in wrong. Nov 29 07:38:18 Oh do you have to slide it in that slot and then push it down? Nov 29 07:38:23 on the little metal thing? Nov 29 07:38:23 yeah Nov 29 07:38:24 johnx: how big is the file Nov 29 07:38:32 ah, good thought :) Nov 29 07:38:43 Night Nov 29 07:38:50 'night AakashPatel Nov 29 07:38:58 i wanna see some sweet widget/desktop setups Nov 29 07:38:59 asidjazz, 68.8MB Nov 29 07:39:08 johnx: yea thats huge and how long is it 5min? Nov 29 07:39:57 2:30 Nov 29 07:39:58 :) Nov 29 07:40:40 yea that should be alot smaller Nov 29 07:40:43 mplayer chokes on it on the device, but total CPU usage during high motion playback in the native player is like 30% or so Nov 29 07:40:46 lemme pull up some mkv video stats Nov 29 07:41:37 screen is a finger print magnet Nov 29 07:42:07 ok lets see Nov 29 07:42:08 Californication.S03E09.720p.HDTV.X264 Nov 29 07:42:35 Keys are small but useable...on par with the Droid Nov 29 07:43:33 bit rate is 5061kb/s Nov 29 07:43:43 browser is more or less up to par with my other mobile browsing device for small number of web pages Nov 29 07:43:53 745mb @ 1 hour Nov 29 07:43:57 ...other mobile is a netbook Nov 29 07:44:15 so I don't have a reference for other browsers Nov 29 07:44:35 ...wait...it's far better than when I played with the Droid. Nov 29 07:44:54 DROIDDDD Nov 29 07:44:57 asidjazz, the files on it are "demo" material. encoded for their looks and low CPU usage only Nov 29 07:45:30 also droid terminal is vastly inferior. Nov 29 07:45:46 johnx: no im not arguing that Nov 29 07:46:25 asidjazz, I'll see if I can push it a little bit Nov 29 07:46:42 just dl some mkv x264 720p Nov 29 07:46:52 720p won't happen I think Nov 29 07:47:16 there was a demo on a beagleboard, but that's with nothing else running. and it sure as hell wasn't running a composited GUI at the same time Nov 29 07:47:20 well wait Nov 29 07:47:22 whats the screen resolution? Nov 29 07:47:25 800x380? Nov 29 07:47:27 800x480 Nov 29 07:47:29 40 Nov 29 07:47:33 ok so 720p is useless Nov 29 07:47:36 and unseeable Nov 29 07:47:47 its capable of 480p tops Nov 29 07:48:04 you would have to create custom mpegs of cropped 720 to 800x480 Nov 29 07:48:07 so the question is: what's the best looking 480p you can view Nov 29 07:48:10 you can do that in vlc Nov 29 07:48:25 a custom cropped 720p Nov 29 07:48:28 they take a while to make Nov 29 07:48:31 depending on cpu Nov 29 07:48:34 not worth it I think Nov 29 07:48:42 not uunless you had it all automated Nov 29 07:48:44 it's so easy to just drag and drop as it is :) Nov 29 07:48:50 like take a season of a show and batch it through Nov 29 07:49:04 I'm used to plugging it in via usb and just dragging what I want to see that day onto it Nov 29 07:49:17 knots2 is a nice frontend to stream and download video from your PC to your tablet (N800, N810, N900) Nov 29 07:49:18 someone write an app thatll crop/convert to 800x480 from any media, give it a folder of media :) Nov 29 07:49:31 check out knots2 asidjazz Nov 29 07:49:48 might be able to live convert your 720p and 1080i if your pc is fast Nov 29 07:49:52 i don tneed to stream Nov 29 07:50:02 have it stream to another mpge Nov 29 07:50:05 you need to transcode. knots transcodes Nov 29 07:50:11 bingo Nov 29 07:50:29 have it transcode to itself in another file locally Nov 29 07:50:36 ahh Nov 29 07:50:40 can you queue the content on the server? Nov 29 07:50:58 i'll ask about that Nov 29 07:51:20 is there ffmpeg for maemo? Nov 29 07:51:53 errr Nov 29 07:52:06 good feature request asidjazz Nov 29 07:52:08 yes AakashPatel Nov 29 07:52:08 jaffa's project from a while back Nov 29 07:52:16 tablet-encode Nov 29 07:52:20 ah nice Nov 29 07:52:36 it's for doing... well, what you want. Nov 29 07:52:39 though Nov 29 07:52:42 ugh forgot vmware makes u rebot 20x Nov 29 07:53:05 rm_you|sleep: Lol what? Nov 29 07:53:15 lol Nov 29 07:53:15 Its for doing waht i want <- the purpse of any app? Nov 29 07:53:25 summer glau doesn't make for a good terminator Nov 29 07:53:28 she was better as river Nov 29 07:53:36 * RST38h moos at rm_you and pupnik Nov 29 07:53:44 omg a cow Nov 29 07:53:44 are there lots of sample apps w/ source i can mess w/. like very simple. Nov 29 07:53:46 asidjazz: IMO (and this is coming from a videophile who refuses to watch anything that isn't 720p in normal circumstances), just go with HDTV/xvid that isn't 720p, it looks beautiful on the screen of n900 because it is the right size :P Nov 29 07:53:59 rm_you|sleep: iirc Nov 29 07:54:07 <- spoiled videophile as well Nov 29 07:54:18 if it aint 720p i aint watchin it Nov 29 07:54:27 asidjazz: when i first picked up the n800 it was as a portable media device Nov 29 07:54:30 rm_you|sleep: i would usually encode it to mp4 Nov 29 07:54:31 :) Nov 29 07:54:35 and i spent weeks fine-tuning the encoding process Nov 29 07:54:44 doesn't the n900 have an h264 decoder? Nov 29 07:54:57 Macer, yes. it works quite well Nov 29 07:55:09 n900 comes around, and trust me, the screen size is perfect for any standard HDTV/xvid Nov 29 07:55:10 for instance Nov 29 07:55:37 National.Geographic.Megastructures.Man.Made.Sun.HDTV.XviD-PVR Nov 29 07:55:39 etc Nov 29 07:55:53 perfect fit on the screen Nov 29 07:56:17 well. i am just curious why xvid Nov 29 07:56:21 720p is actually 1.5x the pixels on the tablet Nov 29 07:56:29 when you have an h264 decoder :) Nov 29 07:56:32 Macer: decodes faster Nov 29 07:56:38 though Nov 29 07:56:43 rm_you|sleep, have you tried h264 on the N900? Nov 29 07:56:45 well. i would figure it would offload to the decoder Nov 29 07:56:48 I'm curious at this point Nov 29 07:56:52 i haven't tried since Tomasz released the thing that enables mkv playback :P Nov 29 07:56:59 just installed that :> Nov 29 07:57:05 yeah Nov 29 07:57:07 i need to Nov 29 07:57:10 but then ScT went down Nov 29 07:57:15 and i spent about three hours crying Nov 29 07:57:20 but now i'm back Nov 29 07:58:05 i figured playing xvids would tax the cpu more than mp4s Nov 29 07:58:09 tried some h264 stuff, yes, but it was mostly pretty slow comparatively Nov 29 07:58:12 AakashPatel: what ubuntu install did you choose Nov 29 07:58:21 Huh? Nov 29 07:58:24 doesn't seem to Nov 29 07:58:27 The regular one Nov 29 07:58:30 Desktop Nov 29 07:58:46 phone is in the other room now charging tho, so can't try till morning Nov 29 07:58:56 and will be driving most of tomorrow, starting when i wake up <_< Nov 29 07:59:26 rm_you|sleep, fun. where to? Nov 29 07:59:32 back to SA Nov 29 07:59:35 asidjazz: yo? Nov 29 07:59:37 in Dallas <_< Nov 29 08:00:02 AakashPatel: also how much room would you say the vm needs Nov 29 08:00:11 not too much Nov 29 08:00:13 AakashPatel: werent u the one thats using ubuntu? Nov 29 08:00:17 10gb? 5gb? Nov 29 08:00:18 give the VM like 5 gb Nov 29 08:00:19 yeah Nov 29 08:00:25 10 is okay also Nov 29 08:00:29 i gave mine 10 lol Nov 29 08:00:32 50! Nov 29 08:00:38 why be fickle Nov 29 08:01:05 asidjazz: really though, it turns out that scene released xvids are pretty close to perfect for playback on n900 by default, and maybe you could improve them slightly, sure, but it is NOT worth the effort when literally everything you can get is drag-and-drop ready Nov 29 08:01:10 Sure, if you send me your harddrives Nov 29 08:01:36 rm_you|sleep: yea and its not really gonna be too noticable by the human eye on such a small device Nov 29 08:01:41 asidjazz: especially since you can run a torrent client on-device :P Nov 29 08:01:49 thats just nuts lol Nov 29 08:01:54 yes, that's what i was saying too :P Nov 29 08:01:55 i saw lighttpd too Nov 29 08:02:13 i think Transmission is the one in repos? Nov 29 08:02:18 i narrowed mine down to 2 desktops Nov 29 08:02:23 so it is approved by most scene trackers too :P Nov 29 08:02:23 hopefully thatll be nicer on the battery Nov 29 08:02:53 my battery lasts me like 6-7 hours on average' Nov 29 08:03:03 its all this freakin screen Nov 29 08:03:04 bittorrent will not be nice on the battery :) Nov 29 08:03:05 but i also use my device actively for about 1/3 of that time Nov 29 08:03:10 the e61i i have has the same battery lasts for days Nov 29 08:03:14 my n97 .. 5-6 hours Nov 29 08:03:24 its probably 70% screen brightness Nov 29 08:03:30 it's the difference between a phone and a computer :) Nov 29 08:03:34 yep Nov 29 08:03:42 of course my G1 lasted about the same Nov 29 08:03:43 so Nov 29 08:03:48 not as bad as the g1 though Nov 29 08:03:50 that things horrible Nov 29 08:03:57 well, yeah, but I think it's a use-case thing Nov 29 08:04:11 my G1 was about the same, MAYBE a little worse actually Nov 29 08:04:20 i don't think i used my G1 as heavily Nov 29 08:04:20 there's nothing to *do* on my old dumb-phone so I only ever use it to make calls and send SMS Nov 29 08:04:24 and it died in the same time Nov 29 08:04:38 i carry both around still T_T Nov 29 08:04:40 My ADP1 is worse lol Nov 29 08:04:41 does the notification light change colors Nov 29 08:04:43 Traitor :p Nov 29 08:04:44 any word on an official tmobile plan? Nov 29 08:05:06 rm_you|sleep, here's the word: get the $10/month data plan :) Nov 29 08:05:14 lol Nov 29 08:05:16 I'll tell you when they kick me off Nov 29 08:05:30 heh Nov 29 08:05:42 yeah dunno why i'm still on the G1 Nov 29 08:05:43 I'm running the N900 on T-Mobile with no problems. Nov 29 08:05:58 so am I, i just have the G1 package still :p Nov 29 08:06:02 are there any good themes worth using yet? Nov 29 08:06:04 so i guess they think i'm using that? Nov 29 08:06:09 KenYoung: minus 3g though Nov 29 08:06:24 i have 3g :P Nov 29 08:06:30 asidjazz, Nope, 3G is fine. Nov 29 08:06:38 shouldnt 3g not work via t-mo ? Nov 29 08:06:52 3g is built for tmobile Nov 29 08:06:58 it won't work on ATT :/ Nov 29 08:07:01 n900 has tmob freqs Nov 29 08:07:02 heh Nov 29 08:07:10 down with att! Nov 29 08:07:12 asidjazz, It doen't work for AT&T, but it does for T-Mobile., Nov 29 08:07:13 i hope they go bankrupt! Nov 29 08:07:27 wtf i thought it was the other way around Nov 29 08:07:37 lol no Nov 29 08:07:45 Macer: No wai! Nov 29 08:07:48 hope you didn't just get an ATT plan T_T Nov 29 08:07:50 * AakashPatel huggles his AT&T Nov 29 08:07:54 asidjazz, Nope, definately not. I've got one, and it works on T-Mobile, with not problems. Nov 29 08:07:55 nah i never do plans Nov 29 08:08:02 i always buy phones and do month to month Nov 29 08:08:08 ok well i might switch then Nov 29 08:08:37 i live in sf carrier doesnt matter to me Nov 29 08:08:50 thats odd cuz the n97 was at&t Nov 29 08:08:52 right Nov 29 08:08:54 and not t-mo Nov 29 08:09:06 What 3g freq's does it have Nov 29 08:09:42 AakashPatel, EU 3G, and t-mo 3G Nov 29 08:09:49 o.O Nov 29 08:09:56 whyd they do the opposite for the n97?? Nov 29 08:10:07 They probably custom made it just for att's freq's then i guess? Nov 29 08:10:09 asidjazz, different market strategy, different chipset Nov 29 08:10:24 i switched from t-mo to at&T for the n97 .. $85/mo Nov 29 08:10:30 who here has t-mo whats ur phone bill Nov 29 08:10:40 It's nice not to have to compete with the iPhone users for bandwidth. Nov 29 08:10:46 asidjazz, on a family plan, so not representative Nov 29 08:10:58 * AakashPatel is also on family plan on att though Nov 29 08:11:12 but i think my bill is cheaper than yours Nov 29 08:11:12 haha Nov 29 08:11:15 lemme check Nov 29 08:11:20 the data part of my t-mo plan is $10 :) Nov 29 08:11:30 o.o Nov 29 08:11:32 on att its 15 Nov 29 08:11:48 back in a couple minutes Nov 29 08:11:52 aight Nov 29 08:12:01 i have the cheapest talking plan Nov 29 08:12:07 and unlimited text/data Nov 29 08:12:49 On my family plan i have 700 mins, 2 lines, 1 line with data Nov 29 08:12:56 dammit load att Nov 29 08:13:01 the slider is nowhere near as smooth as iphone :( Nov 29 08:13:27 my talk plan is $45 my data/text is $30 trhen other fees and crap Nov 29 08:14:00 how many mins Nov 29 08:14:01 you mean sliding pictures? Nov 29 08:14:11 no the lock slider Nov 29 08:14:20 on the iphone its super reactive Nov 29 08:14:25 this one pauses Nov 29 08:14:59 Lol wtf Nov 29 08:15:01 like if you move your thumb back and forth it lags Nov 29 08:15:04 and is slow Nov 29 08:15:06 grab an iphone Nov 29 08:15:09 impossible to get it to lag Nov 29 08:15:09 att's business billing crap doesnt even wanna open Nov 29 08:15:17 their sites are crap Nov 29 08:15:18 * AakashPatel wonders if he can use that as an excuse not to pay his bill Nov 29 08:15:24 and ridic slow Nov 29 08:15:37 lol no they'll charge you more $$$ for site accessing fees Nov 29 08:15:47 Haha Nov 29 08:15:53 and attempting to not pay fees Nov 29 08:16:42 its getting stuck at this sales.liveperson.net Nov 29 08:16:47 transferring... Nov 29 08:17:01 http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9141465/Microsoft_s_top_developers_prefer_old_school_coding_methods Nov 29 08:17:03 Hehe Nov 29 08:17:23 whats oldschool mean Nov 29 08:17:30 not using bloated frameworks Nov 29 08:17:56 Gateway Timeout Nov 29 08:17:56 The proxy server did not receive a timely response from the upstream server. Nov 29 08:17:57 Oh yes Nov 29 08:18:09 * timeless_mbp eyes AakashPatel Nov 29 08:18:25 * AakashPatel gets scared Nov 29 08:18:30 is it not possible to 'edit' a bookmark? Nov 29 08:18:36 Let the stalking begin Nov 29 08:18:39 n/m Nov 29 08:19:04 While visual programming can be easier to learn and can help make developers more productive, it's also "easier to delude yourself," said Butler Lampson, a technical fellow at Microsoft. For instance, "no one can ever tell you what a UML diagram means." Nov 29 08:19:09 * RST38h rotfls Nov 29 08:19:27 > For instance, "no one can ever tell you what a UML diagram means." Nov 29 08:19:29 fucking uml Nov 29 08:19:31 lmao Nov 29 08:19:36 Butler + Nov 29 08:20:06 Have they finally come up with a textual representation or is it still a bunch of cute box images copied from Rational Rose? Nov 29 08:21:12 :( 1st n900 crash Nov 29 08:21:24 need to clean up all the apps i frantically installed Nov 29 08:21:26 Oh, timeless_mbp, how's the CPA stuff going? I'm ill and bored, so I need something to do Nov 29 08:21:29 asidjazz: what crashed? an app Nov 29 08:21:34 browser Nov 29 08:21:37 on engadget.com Nov 29 08:21:38 qwerty12_N900: my n900 died Nov 29 08:21:48 so i'm um, stuck Nov 29 08:21:51 yay, maemo5 has 'top' :) Nov 29 08:22:00 why did it die timeless_mbp? Nov 29 08:22:10 i was very mean to it Nov 29 08:22:10 timeless_mbp: Serves you right for showing all those screenshots. No, really, what happened? :) Nov 29 08:22:11 "I think we have maybe five to 10 years left [with Moore's Law]," he said. "Optimizations will get very, very sexy again, when people realize how we pay for abstractions." <=== and this guy designed Microsoft's C++/CLI Nov 29 08:22:12 simula_: yea i saw that lol Nov 29 08:22:22 * timeless_mbp dropped it on a tile floor Nov 29 08:22:27 (a couple of times) Nov 29 08:22:28 already?? Nov 29 08:22:38 reminds me i need a good case/sleeve for this thing Nov 29 08:22:45 and a screen protector Nov 29 08:22:45 timeless_mbp: My old Palm died after one drop on a tiled floor Nov 29 08:23:09 my e61i dropped from a waistlevel drop to concrete outside a parking lot near work Nov 29 08:23:11 my old palm died after I overclocked it :) Nov 29 08:23:15 RST38h... i think you are quoting herb sutter... are you not? Nov 29 08:23:55 qwerty12_N900: it was --parent-window X or --parent-window=X ? Nov 29 08:23:59 whats pulseaudio Nov 29 08:24:02 its taking 26% cpu Nov 29 08:24:12 asidjazz, it's your sound mixer/daemon Nov 29 08:24:13 and whats as-daemon Nov 29 08:24:18 timeless_mbp: --parent-window=X, AFAIK Nov 29 08:24:29 asidjazz: probably alsa Nov 29 08:24:30 asidjazz, dunno about as-daemon. google is probably your friend Nov 29 08:24:47 oh wait, we use pulse Nov 29 08:24:48 * timeless_mbp shrugs Nov 29 08:25:07 Xorg is onw top cpu Nov 29 08:25:10 guess thats the xwindows daemon Nov 29 08:25:10 timeless, doesn't mean you don't also use alsa. ;) that used to be the case for sure Nov 29 08:25:26 along w/ hildon-home Nov 29 08:25:30 asidjazz, technically it's the "X server" Nov 29 08:25:40 asidjazz: calling Xorg the 'xwindows daemon' is kinda odd Nov 29 08:25:49 mmm 2:25 Nov 29 08:25:54 looks like its bed time Nov 29 08:25:55 night Nov 29 08:26:05 timeless_mbp, web server, http daemon, X server, X daemon. I think it actually fits pretty well :) Nov 29 08:26:14 yay ubuntu installed Nov 29 08:26:19 man the new version is sexy lookin Nov 29 08:26:53 asidjazz: Just download the GUI Installer () from maemo dev site Nov 29 08:26:58 and run it in phython Nov 29 08:27:00 and you're golden Nov 29 08:27:07 now im really going to sleep lol Nov 29 08:27:54 * timeless_mbp grumbles Nov 29 08:28:00 * timeless_mbp keeps losing qwerty's file Nov 29 08:28:20 qwerty12_N900: hit me again :( Nov 29 08:28:30 lol Nov 29 08:28:47 timeless_mbp: http://qwerty12.qole.org/qwerty_cpa.c Nov 29 08:29:06 timeless_mbp: The Zenity source is on the autobuilder, somewhere... Nov 29 08:29:38 AakashPatel: thanks again for your help Nov 29 08:29:43 yep Nov 29 08:29:43 404? Nov 29 08:30:08 yes, 404 Nov 29 08:31:11 timeless_mbp: http://qwerty12.qole.org/qwerty-cpa.c Nov 29 08:31:28 that works better :) Nov 29 08:32:16 qwerty12_N900: whats this ur writing Nov 29 08:33:08 asidjazz: Nothing special; it's just an applet for the Control Panel that runs a program Nov 29 08:33:25 lol Nov 29 08:33:30 to get seduced by a machine Nov 29 08:33:37 damn that skynet! Nov 29 08:33:53 qwerty12_N900: ok, pulled into one of two places Nov 29 08:34:04 * timeless_mbp needs to figure out how to move scratchbox from one computer to another Nov 29 08:36:07 * asidjazz just ran sudo ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py Nov 29 08:36:23 qwerty12_N900: whats hte program that it runs? Nov 29 08:37:16 timeless_mbp: you install it in a vm Nov 29 08:37:18 asidjazz: timeless' ber-locale modifier Nov 29 08:37:19 and move the disk ;) Nov 29 08:37:34 Macer: i did install it in a vm (the wrong one) Nov 29 08:37:42 haha Nov 29 08:37:43 now i want to move it to the right one :) Nov 29 08:37:45 oops :) Nov 29 08:37:56 just suck it up and start over man Nov 29 08:37:57 heh Nov 29 08:38:36 ugh rss only allows adds as an address? Nov 29 08:40:38 asidjazz: ? Nov 29 08:42:51 * timeless_mbp grumbles Nov 29 08:43:21 qwerty12_N900: so um Nov 29 08:43:24 this doesn't make sense Nov 29 08:43:31 timeless_mbp: an rss feed search thing would be nicer Nov 29 08:43:34 i rebuilt your files and then copied them over Nov 29 08:43:34 like googles reader Nov 29 08:43:47 asidjazz: google reader works Nov 29 08:43:52 i htink my scratchbox is stuck at 20% Nov 29 08:43:58 timeless_mbp: watcha mean? Nov 29 08:43:59 but only 1/4 of my files changed Nov 29 08:44:20 i can use google reader on my n900 (when my n900 works..) Nov 29 08:44:25 Warning: unknown mime-type for "/tmp/maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.log" -- using "application/octet-stream" Nov 29 08:44:25 Error: no "view" mailcap rules found for type "application/octet-stream" Nov 29 08:44:28 hi gavin___ Nov 29 08:44:31 :( Nov 29 08:44:56 what in the world are you doing? Nov 29 08:45:24 heres my error http://pastie.org/718976 Nov 29 08:45:42 trying to install scrtachbox via the gui installer Nov 29 08:46:16 gui installers are for people who trust nokia guis Nov 29 08:46:25 Crap, its default theme is called "Twilight" Nov 29 08:46:37 qwerty12_N900: blacklisted word? :) Nov 29 08:47:14 timeless_mbp: Something like that. It's on my films to never watch list :) Nov 29 08:47:18 haha. the terminator just rolled through a mexican prison killing everybody in sight Nov 29 08:47:26 that was awesome.. i love skynet :) Nov 29 08:47:27 Macer: t2? Nov 29 08:47:32 is there a pair of sunglasses with composite-input for vieweing n900 screen? Nov 29 08:47:36 sarah conner chronicles Nov 29 08:47:45 some that don't suck? Nov 29 08:48:00 qwerty12_N900: so, odd Nov 29 08:48:00 pupnik_, that qualifier filters the results to zero I think Nov 29 08:48:00 T2 had him free Sarah Connor from an American prison Nov 29 08:48:05 i have a so-update file Nov 29 08:48:19 well. it was actually a mental institution :) Nov 29 08:48:24 johnx: i think so too. But something that could full pal could display enough data i think Nov 29 08:48:29 maybe even chat :) Nov 29 08:48:37 Macer: she was in a mental ward Nov 29 08:48:45 overlaid on normal view Nov 29 08:48:48 i don't believe the institution only provided mental facilities Nov 29 08:49:00 timeless_mbp: I've never seen a "so-update" file Nov 29 08:49:12 qwerty12_N900: it means that i already tried updating your .so's Nov 29 08:49:15 new timeless_mbp that's what i just said Nov 29 08:49:19 pupnik_, there's some myvu glasses that are VGA I think Nov 29 08:49:23 er.. timeless_mbp Nov 29 08:49:37 yeah i see them advertised Nov 29 08:49:53 just scared to buy, because i tried some vr in 1989 and it sucked Nov 29 08:49:58 new sarah is hotter Nov 29 08:50:17 pupnik_: I bet... Nov 29 08:52:08 but then i could walk about and do more whilst keeping an eye on discussions Nov 29 08:52:11 lol Nov 29 08:52:38 Hey guys :) Nov 29 08:53:05 Can one probably explain me how nokia customer support is supposed to work? The feedback on this ticket looks kinda strange to me :| https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360 Nov 29 08:53:07 Bug 6360: Headset problems Nov 29 08:53:29 lol Nov 29 08:53:39 wow it sure sucks to be part of the sarah conner group Nov 29 08:53:43 these gets in this install of scratchbox are taking forever Nov 29 08:53:58 i mean like.. just imagine all the people they pass up that aren't beign hunted by skynet all day long :) Nov 29 08:54:08 lucky bastards ... ignorance is bliss i suppose Nov 29 08:54:47 PaulFertser: 1. you call nokia care Nov 29 08:54:51 2. you walk through their menus Nov 29 08:55:01 3. if you have complaints about nokia care, you write a letter Nov 29 08:55:06 PaulFertser: is that clear? Nov 29 08:55:17 *.maemo.org is NOT Nokia support Nov 29 08:55:51 heh Nov 29 08:56:09 i can repeat it for you if necessary, but i don't think i can use smaller words Nov 29 08:56:40 timeless_mbp: yes... But what is the real-life experience on using nokia "care"? I had so many useless conversations with technical assitance that i honestly doubt they can help with what is already clearly explained on the bugtracker. Nov 29 08:57:00 timeless_mbp: i'm not trying to offense anybody btw Nov 29 08:57:02 PaulFertser: real life experience is that i want to shoot them Nov 29 08:57:14 but if you want official support, you will use Nokia Care Nov 29 08:57:36 and if you want to do the rest of the community a favor, you will record each call to Nokia Care, properly indicating to them that you are doing so Nov 29 08:57:48 and when they do something stupid, you will publish a transcript + audio log Nov 29 08:58:23 PaulFertser, glanced at the bug. is this a headset that is designed to be iphone compatible? Nov 29 08:58:27 timeless_mbp: a valuable advice, thanks (no sarcasm) Nov 29 08:58:46 johnx: the guy got an n900 along with n900 headset, official, no modifications. Nov 29 08:59:27 johnx: i doubt it's iphone compatible since iphone uses reverse pinout for mic and gnd pins. Nov 29 08:59:40 PaulFertser: all things considered, the bug summary sucks Nov 29 08:59:45 sorry, reading the bug in depth now Nov 29 08:59:54 heh, there were problems with the bluetooth headset that you got with the n900 pre-ordered... i called them a couple weeks before they sent mine out and they said they could drop that headset and save me $100... i dropped it Nov 29 08:59:58 johnx: it'd be interesting to understand how maemo differentiates between regular headphones and a headset but i lack necessare motivation to dig the code right now. Nov 29 09:00:02 if i read c0 correctly, the actual claim is "headset icon doesn't appear if headset is plugged in before power is turned on" Nov 29 09:00:05 is that correct? Nov 29 09:00:17 timeless_mbp, you misread I believe Nov 29 09:00:38 johnx: is it the *other* way around? Nov 29 09:01:07 any easy way to force-kill an app runnig Nov 29 09:01:18 PaulFertser: fwiw, afaik the headset icon only appeared when using a BT headset :) Nov 29 09:01:30 so the fact that someone indicates it applies to wired is news to me :o Nov 29 09:01:48 timeless_mbp, as I understand it: boot with headset plugged in, result: shows icon and routes sound correctly. after unplugging/replugging on that same boot: sound routes correctly, but icon never reappears Nov 29 09:02:01 johnx: please fix the summary Nov 29 09:02:06 if they're plugged in after boot for the first time: sound/icon don't show up or function properly Nov 29 09:02:08 'headset problems' so doesn't work Nov 29 09:02:26 "headset icon only appears if headset is plugged in before turning on n900" Nov 29 09:02:28 timeless_mbp, please re-read: "as I understand it" Nov 29 09:02:29 this flash pgae in my browser wont close Nov 29 09:03:01 asidjazz: you can use `kill` in a terminal ... Nov 29 09:03:02 timeless_mbp, if you re-read his description, with my summary in mind, does it make sense? Nov 29 09:03:06 johnx: sorry, i'm not the reporter. I'm afraid the reporter being a non-native speaker is not accurately describing the problem. Nov 29 09:03:32 im doin ga kill Nov 29 09:03:36 it stops the flash Nov 29 09:03:41 johnx: i'm confused Nov 29 09:03:46 but when i go to look at open tasks the browser is still shown and it pops back up Nov 29 09:03:52 other comments 1/2 only talk about the n95 headset Nov 29 09:03:53 i kill -9'ed browserd Nov 29 09:04:07 johnx: the major problem for him is that if he boots his n900 then plugs an original n900 headset he can't get neither sound nor mic working (he can get sound after loading special alsa state though). Nov 29 09:04:43 PaulFertser: simply put, if the reporter does a bad job of reporting a bug Nov 29 09:04:51 PaulFertser, has he tried reflashing and not restoring any files/apps/settings? Nov 29 09:04:58 and our triage team doesn't speak the same language as the reporter Nov 29 09:05:04 johnx: i think yes, he has tried reflashing. Nov 29 09:05:04 the results are unlikely to be particularly good Nov 29 09:05:16 PaulFertser, that sounds like a hardware problem Nov 29 09:05:30 timeless_mbp: if you read the only comment from maemo guy you'll see he didn't seem to try to read the original text... Nov 29 09:05:34 maybe a loose socket? Nov 29 09:05:40 johnx: yes but it works with an n95 headset. Nov 29 09:05:49 PaulFertser: if you read what i wrote, you'd see that i failed to understand the original comment Nov 29 09:05:52 i'm a native speaker Nov 29 09:06:01 if a native speaker can't figure out what the reporter is saying Nov 29 09:06:11 then you shouldn't expect a non native speaker to get better results Nov 29 09:06:18 what andre was doing is diagnostics Nov 29 09:06:29 they're useful when you try to report a bug to the actual engineers Nov 29 09:06:47 timeless_mbp: at least the original comment says that there're particular kernel messages present. And expresses that clearly. Andre was asking about the same message, it's like he was in a hurry and didn't notice the info is already present. Nov 29 09:07:07 PaulFertser, sometimes bug triagers make mistakes Nov 29 09:07:14 PaulFertser: so um Nov 29 09:07:22 1. the original report has a lot of text Nov 29 09:07:24 give it some time Nov 29 09:07:31 2. it doesn't have precise dmesg output Nov 29 09:07:46 if andre wants to report the bug to an engineer, he's going to want the exact dmesg output Nov 29 09:07:59 i love that yellow notificatoin bar Nov 29 09:08:01 anyways, if it works for everyone else, it behaves sporadically and persists through a reflash. to me it sounds like a hardware problem with the N900 he has. Maybe it's not Nov 29 09:08:03 not "i saw a B in the dmesg output, and maybe a Q, or was that a P" Nov 29 09:08:39 PaulFertser: but if this is actually a hardware problem Nov 29 09:08:49 then the right venue is indeed Nokia Care Nov 29 09:08:54 timeless_mbp: i might be stupid but in fact i thought that the comment from a @maemo guy would explain how in fact HS detection works (because apparently, the GPIO thing is for every headphones, what's interesting here is how it differentiate between a regular headphones and a stereo headset). Nov 29 09:08:55 so i will point to my original answer :) Nov 29 09:09:06 5gb is def not enough for a vmware Nov 29 09:09:10 i just ran out of room during the install :( Nov 29 09:09:16 PaulFertser: andre is a maemo.org employee fwiw, not a official nokian :P Nov 29 09:09:39 johnx: given a bit more technical details might save the guy some time because he has a multimeter and can diagnose hardware problems with headset himself. Nov 29 09:09:43 asidjazz: my vm machine has 40gb assigned Nov 29 09:09:53 Stskeeps: yes, but it's maemo code that does HS detection, isn't it? Nov 29 09:09:53 giving it 10gb Nov 29 09:09:57 timeless_mbp: how much free space do u have rihgt now Nov 29 09:10:03 but i've only used 2.4gb and i have a minimal scratchbox Nov 29 09:10:07 PaulFertser: it does this based on a gpio afaik Nov 29 09:10:12 i can compile the program qwerty gave me :) Nov 29 09:10:20 (i'm not sure) Nov 29 09:10:21 PaulFertser, yes it might. I should note that Andre is a generalist. He's a bug triager, not the guy who designed the N900 hardware, or the guy who wrote the headphone detection routine Nov 29 09:10:25 Stskeeps: gpio event happens for any plug, including regular headphones. Nov 29 09:10:49 Morning, Stskeeps Nov 29 09:10:53 email app work w/ gmail? Nov 29 09:11:11 johnx: why didn't he add the relevant people to CC then? Nov 29 09:11:21 asidjazz: define work Nov 29 09:11:37 PaulFertser: we don't like to drown our engineers in crapy bugs Nov 29 09:11:40 morning qwerty12_N900 Nov 29 09:11:48 engineers work on well defined bugs Nov 29 09:11:54 or management tasks Nov 29 09:12:06 timeless_mbp: like do i have to install it as an imap thing and just get annoyed Nov 29 09:12:07 PaulFertser, because, I'm not Andre, I can't answer for him. Because I can't answer for him, I can only surmise that he's trying to reproduce the same problem internally. I don't know what you want me to say. I'm not a Nokia employee. Nov 29 09:12:09 * johnx shrugs Nov 29 09:12:29 asidjazz: how big is your mailbox? Nov 29 09:12:34 if it's >40k messages, i wouldn't try Nov 29 09:12:50 i certainly have never fed a gmail inbox to modest Nov 29 09:13:30 PaulFertser: are we clear on wanting precise output from dmesg? Nov 29 09:13:32 timeless_mbp: i've read that somewhere else before. Usually it means that to actually report the issue you have to get through useless procedures and sometimes even incompetence of "1st level support". Management tasks, eh. Somehow if i report a bug for GCC, i can CC the relevant people right at the time i file a bug... Nov 29 09:13:34 adblock plus works really well Nov 29 09:13:35 do you actually object to that as a request? Nov 29 09:13:37 timeless_mbp: massive Nov 29 09:13:45 asidjazz: forget about it. Nov 29 09:13:49 use the browser Nov 29 09:13:59 https://mail.google.com/mail/x/ Nov 29 09:13:59 https://mail.google.com/mail/x/ Nov 29 09:14:01 https://mail.google.com/mail/h/ Nov 29 09:14:04 https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1 Nov 29 09:14:04 PaulFertser: instead of complaining, get involved in the bugsquad. Nov 29 09:14:15 PaulFertser, also, response on a bug tracker tends to be quality over speed. Give him a couple days, and in the meantime, talking to Nokia support definitely seems worthwhile Nov 29 09:14:32 timeless_mbp: (precise output from dmesg) nope, that's useless, there's only one thing that gets there when you plug a headphones, that's GPIO message. It's already pretty clear it's there... Nov 29 09:14:37 PaulFertser: https://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad Nov 29 09:14:43 n/m Nov 29 09:14:48 ill wait for gogle to port theirs timeless_mbp Nov 29 09:14:51 or http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad Nov 29 09:15:10 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out how Stskeeps 's urls differ Nov 29 09:15:18 timeless_mbp: one asks for login, one doesn't Nov 29 09:15:18 timeless, ssl Nov 29 09:15:27 One has an 's' Nov 29 09:16:14 PaulFertser: anyway Nov 29 09:16:15 Stskeeps: i've not come to complain. I'm trying to help the guy to diagnose the problem. But lacking hardware specs and understanding of maemo internals i can't help much. I assumed that CCing relevant people through the bugzilla ticket can help since that's a matter of 5 minutes to them to describe how the detection procedure should work... Nov 29 09:16:24 other comments #2 to me implies bad hardware on the n900 Nov 29 09:16:44 PaulFertser: sorry, that's not really how things work Nov 29 09:16:45 PaulFertser, this isn't quite a typical open source project Nov 29 09:16:57 PaulFertser: that mostly happens if the bug is imported internally Nov 29 09:17:04 PaulFertser: imagine that hypothetically there were 1,000,000 people who owned n900s Nov 29 09:17:06 timeless_mbp: (bad hardware on n900) if it was indeed bad why does n95 headset works properly with it then? Nov 29 09:17:25 Stskeeps: imported internally? I can't even understand what you mean. Nov 29 09:17:37 PaulFertser: comment 2 doesn't indicate the n95 headset works properly Nov 29 09:17:42 in fact it indicates that it does not Nov 29 09:17:46 PaulFertser, you haven't ever seen sporadically non-functional hardware? Nov 29 09:17:47 it only works properly in one cas Nov 29 09:17:48 e Nov 29 09:18:01 that's my definition of "DOES NOT WORK PROPERLY" Nov 29 09:18:03 johnx: his n95 headset works every time he plugs it in he says. Nov 29 09:18:04 PaulFertser: OK, there's bugs.maemo.org and there's the internal nokia bugtracker. relevant bugs are imported from BMO to internal bugtracker and assigned a int- alias Nov 29 09:18:10 Stskeeps: lol Nov 29 09:18:18 PaulFertser: i don't like this either but that's how it is right now Nov 29 09:18:24 anyway, imagine my 1,000,000 n900 owners Nov 29 09:18:26 does the n95 headset have a mic on it? Nov 29 09:18:32 and imagine each of them filing a bug in bugs.maemo.org Nov 29 09:18:37 Stskeeps: gcc internal bugtracker, only for important bugs to not bother _real_cool_devs_ with shit, rofl Nov 29 09:18:43 PaulFertser, no. his N95 headset doesn't show an icon. Nov 29 09:18:44 ali12341: it does. Nov 29 09:18:49 PaulFertser: will you stop being a troll for once? :P Nov 29 09:19:02 johnx: nobody even knows for sure if the icon should be there or not. And when it should appear and how. Nov 29 09:19:05 if a million people filed bugs Nov 29 09:19:12 PaulFertser: i'm telling you how things are, of course they are not the best. Nov 29 09:19:17 and people were able to arbitrarily cc engineers to their bugs Nov 29 09:19:25 PaulFertser: Have you considered joining talk.maemo.org? You'll quickly settle in. Nov 29 09:19:28 that'd be a lot of unwanted mail for a lot of engineers Nov 29 09:19:29 PaulFertser: originally only internal bugtracker existed. Nov 29 09:19:34 godamnit Nov 29 09:19:36 bugs.maemo.org is an improvement in that regard Nov 29 09:19:38 i turned on that damn gmail plugin Nov 29 09:19:42 qwerty12_N900: webforum? no dice. And yes, i understand your irony. Nov 29 09:19:45 that makes me do math when i reply to mail late at night Nov 29 09:19:46 PaulFertser, and yet you're claiming that it works? Nov 29 09:19:48 asidjazz: gmail plugin? Nov 29 09:19:54 asidjazz: oh lol Nov 29 09:19:55 incase im wasted Nov 29 09:19:57 loll Nov 29 09:20:02 im only buzzed Nov 29 09:20:24 johnx: no icon but the sound from headphones works and mic recording works. Nov 29 09:20:32 PaulFertser: anyway, if i worked on hardware, i wouldn't want to deal with this bug Nov 29 09:21:03 now, if i were andre, i'd have included my own dmesg output Nov 29 09:21:08 timeless_mbp: now imagine there're 10^6 users of GCC and some bad release breaks let's say AVR support and 10^3 people are able to directly CC the key gcc developers about that. What a disaster! Nov 29 09:21:11 and indicate what happens when i use the n900 headset Nov 29 09:21:28 PaulFertser: ime when gcc screws things up Nov 29 09:21:35 PaulFertser, yeah, that suggests a problem to me of some sort. look, I really am not sure what you want at this point. if you have a question, please ask and I can try to answer. if you want to argue, I can just ignore you. I have some headsets here would it help if I tested them on my n900? Nov 29 09:21:38 you get five or so bugs in each down stream bug tracker Nov 29 09:21:40 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-5 <<< still require some testers :) Nov 29 09:21:52 great Nov 29 09:21:57 expanded my ubuntu disk now it wont login Nov 29 09:21:58 most people never file a bug into the gcc tracker Nov 29 09:21:59 timeless_mbp: you see, the kernel says only about gpio. That's a generic procedure to detect _any_ jack. But there's some special magic about the headsets since they got a mic. Nov 29 09:22:15 PaulFertser: i don't give a F Nov 29 09:22:20 now get the F out of here Nov 29 09:22:20 johnx: it'd be nice to understand how the headset detection works. Nov 29 09:22:21 now. Nov 29 09:22:23 ok? Nov 29 09:22:27 go to H Nov 29 09:22:29 PaulFertser, we don't know Nov 29 09:22:30 do not pass Go Nov 29 09:22:32 PaulFertser: i know they have some more "magic" Nov 29 09:22:35 do not collect 200 USD Nov 29 09:22:38 PaulFertser, did you have another question? Nov 29 09:22:40 PaulFertser: but do not know what it is Nov 29 09:23:28 these finallyfast.com commercials make me want to slaughter children Nov 29 09:23:53 timeless_mbp: i assume i'm still allowed to stay on channel after shutting up, ok? Nov 29 09:24:03 After me shutting up Nov 29 09:24:21 let's pretend we're all babies, out of sight, out of mind Nov 29 09:24:35 timeless_mbp: again sorry how much frree space does your vm hvae Nov 29 09:24:44 40gb- 2.4gb Nov 29 09:24:46 PaulFertser, of course. I can't think of anyone getting kicked from here :) Now, can I help you find a way to figure out the answer to your problem, given that I can't affect Nokia internal processes? Nov 29 09:24:59 so um... 37.6gb ? Nov 29 09:25:23 PaulFertser: best advice. want to improve the situation, join the bugsquad. there's nothing most of us 'sw' guys can do in here. best way is to report the issue as a HW issue to nokia care if it advertises it should work. Nov 29 09:25:42 PaulFertser: please note that bugs.maemo.org is for software bugs Nov 29 09:25:53 if the problem is hardware, then the only answer has always been Nokia Care Nov 29 09:26:00 timeless_mbp: jesus what are you using all that room for? Nov 29 09:26:03 as I've said 3 or 4 times already and as others have repeated Nov 29 09:26:09 asidjazz: which? Nov 29 09:26:38 asidjazz: vms use sparse disks Nov 29 09:26:50 the 37.6gb doesn't cost me much if anything Nov 29 09:27:06 timeless-mbp-2:~ timeless$ df -h . Nov 29 09:27:06 Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on Nov 29 09:27:06 rpool/export/home/timeless 131Gi 17Gi 113Gi 14% /Users/timeless Nov 29 09:27:12 15gb eh Nov 29 09:27:18 err 17gb Nov 29 09:27:25 so you've used 17gb for your scratchbox vm Nov 29 09:27:26 that's my mac's home folder Nov 29 09:27:29 it's unrelated Nov 29 09:27:37 i already said that my vm is 2.4gb Nov 29 09:27:40 how much room will i need for ubuntu + scratchbox Nov 29 09:27:44 out of a 40gb volume Nov 29 09:27:44 like a strong dev enviornment Nov 29 09:27:51 oh, no clue Nov 29 09:28:00 i used what would be considered a 'minimal' dev env Nov 29 09:28:05 how big i sit Nov 29 09:28:07 is it* Nov 29 09:28:09 i have the arm and x86 2007 toolchains Nov 29 09:30:01 asidjazz: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/maemo-vm-df.txt Nov 29 09:30:08 is that easier to understand? Nov 29 09:30:49 oh your /media Nov 29 09:30:50 is 18gb Nov 29 09:30:53 thats odd Nov 29 09:30:58 i created a 5gb vm w/ ubuntu Nov 29 09:31:01 ran out during the scratchbox install Nov 29 09:31:08 actually reload Nov 29 09:31:24 oh ur using ubuntu 8 Nov 29 09:31:26 5gb is barely enough for ubuntu Nov 29 09:31:38 (with full desktop obv.) Nov 29 09:31:45 i'm using ubuntu 8 server Nov 29 09:31:55 i don't need x11, all my vm does is compile stuff Nov 29 09:32:02 and only the stuff *i* want to compile Nov 29 09:32:14 which is basically the one thing that qwerty12_N900 has mentioned above Nov 29 09:32:33 but if you have an xserver outside your vm Nov 29 09:32:41 then you don't really need an xserver inside your vm Nov 29 09:32:50 so your vm copmiles then what Nov 29 09:32:58 i copy to Mer or n900 Nov 29 09:33:03 whats Mer Nov 29 09:33:08 ~Mer Nov 29 09:33:10 it has been said that mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Nov 29 09:33:16 and its just a single binary? Nov 29 09:33:35 that i'm generating? yep :) Nov 29 09:33:45 incredibly tiny, it's just a control panel applet Nov 29 09:33:49 which just runs a script Nov 29 09:33:52 Morning, all Nov 29 09:33:58 hmm Nov 29 09:34:03 i don't need all the bells and whistles :) Nov 29 09:34:27 it only exists because the cp people didn't provide a better way to host scripts as cpas Nov 29 09:34:32 (their bug) Nov 29 09:34:41 well i dont have an outside xwindows Nov 29 09:34:53 you are using a vm, no? Nov 29 09:35:04 is the host windows? or osx? Nov 29 09:35:39 anyway, it's all up to you Nov 29 09:35:40 asidjazz: if you want a full ubuntu install with all desktop stuff etc *and* also maemo sdk, well, mine is 16gb, not including /home Nov 29 09:35:45 i'd probably pick 20gb Nov 29 09:36:49 note that i'm not going to try to build libc or mozilla in a 4gb scratchbox :) Nov 29 09:36:55 that doesn't work :/ Nov 29 09:37:17 ...and you're a traitor, anyway. Safari? Psshh... Nov 29 09:37:24 libc would easily build in 40gb... mozilla ptobably not Nov 29 09:37:31 ali12341: thats the entire size? shit i just did a 10gb one Nov 29 09:37:33 *glibc Nov 29 09:38:07 lol i cant find 20gb on tihs lappy to use Nov 29 09:38:07 but most vm's allow you to setup disks which grow as you use them Nov 29 09:38:07 asidjazz: that's for my main desktop yes, i use it for everything Nov 29 09:38:18 -rw-r--r-- 1 timeless staff 3.3G Nov 29 11:38 /Users/timeless/Library/VirtualBox/HardDisks/maemosdk_server_intrepid-10-08.vmdk Nov 29 09:38:25 ali12341: so how big is ubuntu+maemo sdk Nov 29 09:38:36 i have no idea, it depends what you install Nov 29 09:38:43 fuck it ill just do it again if this dont work Nov 29 09:38:51 that's the spirit!: ) Nov 29 09:39:57 i know that if you rip all the crap out of windows and install it in a VM it a) runs faster than native, and b) uses about 200mb :) Nov 29 09:41:59 windirstat? :) Nov 29 09:42:07 (grand perspective is my friend) Nov 29 09:42:09 lol wat thats not true Nov 29 09:42:12 oh the 'crap' Nov 29 09:42:13 like Nov 29 09:42:17 "group staff"? Nov 29 09:42:26 yo crashanddie_ Nov 29 09:42:33 crashanddie_: standard unix Nov 29 09:42:54 my point exactly, what are you running? Nov 29 09:43:21 osx Nov 29 09:43:31 oh, wannabe Unix then Nov 29 09:43:55 crashanddie_: you realize that the /Users and /Library portion of the path give it away, right? Nov 29 09:44:13 it'd be /export/home/timeless/.VirtualBox on solaris iirc Nov 29 09:44:22 timeless, hadn't read that far ahead :) Nov 29 09:44:45 and /usr/home/timeless on freebsd Nov 29 09:45:05 one of the most popular threads on open solaris is how to put your home folder on / Nov 29 09:45:15 * crashanddie_ facepalms Nov 29 09:45:16 rpool/export/home/timeless 131Gi 17Gi 113Gi 14% /Users/timeless Nov 29 09:45:22 crashanddie_: *sigh* Nov 29 09:45:34 lolll Nov 29 09:45:39 note that this is OS X 10.5.8 running zfs :) Nov 29 09:45:41 solaris still exists? Nov 29 09:45:53 whatever happened to /home/ Nov 29 09:46:11 now its all /usr/export/local/var/home/ Nov 29 09:46:22 which softlinks to somtehign longer Nov 29 09:47:02 there's a very good reason for that Nov 29 09:47:08 if an attacker gets access to your machine Nov 29 09:47:12 asidjazz: automounters are my friend Nov 29 09:47:14 he will need more time to type the full command Nov 29 09:47:22 to go and snoop around Nov 29 09:47:27 meaning films will finally be accurate Nov 29 09:47:30 timeless_mbp: too bad there's no ZFS support in 10.6 Nov 29 09:47:43 timeless_mbp: and the zfs project has been shut-down Nov 29 09:48:09 "OMG, Only 18 seconds before the firewall kicks in, quick, get the data" "I canne push her any harder c'pt'n, the path is too long" Nov 29 09:49:23 http://github.com/dustin/mac-zfs iirc Nov 29 09:49:53 Grr @ MicroB scrolling artifacts. Nov 29 09:53:29 qwerty12_N900: gah Nov 29 09:53:52 GAN900: how do i fish for a package from the builder? Nov 29 09:54:01 i need the sources for qwerty's zenity Nov 29 09:54:07 or at least an x86 build of it Nov 29 09:54:12 "You're scrolling, you must want to see parts of the last page you visited, right?" Nov 29 09:54:21 heh Nov 29 09:54:26 timeless_mbp, grab it fromextras-devel? Nov 29 09:54:35 i don't think it's there Nov 29 09:54:43 Oh, hum. Nov 29 09:54:47 Dunno i Nov 29 09:55:07 timeless_mbp: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/zenity_2.28.0-1maemo1/ Nov 29 09:55:18 That. Nov 29 09:55:23 timeless_mbp: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/z/zenity/ Nov 29 09:55:26 ;) Nov 29 09:55:40 whats zenity do again? Nov 29 09:55:46 reverse Polish ? Nov 29 09:56:06 gpodder is wonderfully handy. a few modal design blechs, but otherwise.. Nov 29 09:57:16 pupnik_, UI still irritates me too much. Nov 29 09:57:40 the way functions are spread between screens? Nov 29 09:57:42 GAN900: ? Nov 29 09:57:47 I just have iTunes do the downloading and move things over manually. Nov 29 09:57:54 e.g. from download window can not start tune? Nov 29 09:57:55 ah ok Nov 29 09:58:10 WTF is going on with wifi? Nov 29 09:58:14 my video list is now too long to scroll through Nov 29 09:58:27 It works for 1 day and then won't connect... Nov 29 09:58:33 is this a known thing? Nov 29 09:58:38 not for me lbt Nov 29 09:59:10 Ah, invoking the silent majority. Nov 29 09:59:11 every time I try and use this thing something seems to go wrong... Nov 29 09:59:17 Gotta love Talk. Nov 29 09:59:26 OK, off to bugzilla Nov 29 09:59:41 lbt, icd spazes on me every so often Nov 29 09:59:53 It claims to be connected but isn't actually Nov 29 10:00:19 Mostly when migrating from one ap to another or to cellular and back Nov 29 10:00:19 no, this is simply "Network Connection Error" "Try again? Nov 29 10:00:31 same AP as last night Nov 29 10:00:34 and mostly only when doing so automatically Nov 29 10:00:36 Ah Nov 29 10:00:44 reboot, click connect... instant connection Nov 29 10:00:52 next morning its disconnected Nov 29 10:00:56 Haven't had that since OS2008 HE Nov 29 10:01:02 click connect "Network Connection Error" "Try again?" Nov 29 10:02:51 stskeeps : i'va managed to boot cloned os :) Nov 29 10:03:00 fuz_: cool! :) Nov 29 10:03:05 fuz_: what were the issues? Nov 29 10:03:33 some cellular thing blocked xsession Nov 29 10:03:54 i've got other problem as well Nov 29 10:04:34 tell you when i come back this evening Nov 29 10:04:38 k Nov 29 10:04:52 fuz_: publish your console kernel somewhere, might be useful for some people Nov 29 10:05:40 oh fuck it Nov 29 10:05:43 i'm a fucking wimp Nov 29 10:05:51 not moving to australia? Nov 29 10:05:53 :P Nov 29 10:06:04 I managed to "block" my back while folding a shirt Nov 29 10:07:55 "block"? Nov 29 10:08:03 lock it up Nov 29 10:08:17 like you feel something snapping/moving in your back and can't move that much anymore? Nov 29 10:08:34 I'VE GOT 20 MORE SHIRTS TO FOLD Nov 29 10:08:41 :| bummer Nov 29 10:08:46 oh well Nov 29 10:08:48 it's official Nov 29 10:08:50 can't go to the US Nov 29 10:08:54 what a shame... Nov 29 10:08:59 anyway, going back to bed, later Nov 29 10:10:08 hope you feel better soon Nov 29 10:10:16 lol Nov 29 10:10:26 Get your N900 to fold 'em! Nov 29 10:10:41 is it just me or has the shipping threads calmed down a little bit and there's more 'real' posts? Nov 29 10:11:09 Stskeeps: Yes and no Nov 29 10:11:20 Stskeeps: it is an illusion Nov 29 10:12:04 damn scratchbox install wont past 20% again Nov 29 10:12:06 been a while Nov 29 10:13:00 qwerty12_N900: i sure hope i don't need maemo-optify on mer Nov 29 10:13:31 timeless_mbp: maemo-optify would possibly be a no-opt on mer Nov 29 10:13:36 timeless_mbp: It fucked up the autobuilder build, so at this point in time, I could care less about it Nov 29 10:13:41 but haven't looked into it yet Nov 29 10:14:13 Stskeeps, now we have proper troll threads instead. Nov 29 10:14:18 right, just videoed my bug Nov 29 10:14:45 Stskeeps: um, apt-get doesn't like me Nov 29 10:14:53 how do i get packages from Mer? Nov 29 10:15:05 GAN900: and now it's moving to twitter too: http://twitter.com/darkbulb Nov 29 10:15:27 failed to fetch download.opensuse.org/repositories/Maemo://Mer://Testing/Ubuntu_9.04/Sources 404 Nov 29 10:15:38 timeless_mbp: ah, we don't have source repositories Nov 29 10:15:39 it's a bug Nov 29 10:15:39 w00t w00t, still at a strong 1.69 ratio on TMO! Nov 29 10:15:41 in OBS Nov 29 10:15:51 darkbulb? is that supposed to be ironic? Nov 29 10:16:38 heh Nov 29 10:16:39 wow Nov 29 10:16:42 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=398797&postcount=3 Nov 29 10:16:57 lmao Nov 29 10:17:20 proper response to a gimic I guess :) Nov 29 10:17:27 Ok, I can understand people don't understand latin words than transfered to English Nov 29 10:17:30 but "multi"? Nov 29 10:17:36 the swirl motion should work viewing photos Nov 29 10:17:43 also we need a 3d photo viewer thing like the n97 had Nov 29 10:17:58 that thing was awesome Nov 29 10:18:03 asidjazz: yeah, everyone complains about the fact that the browser gestures aren't supported everywhere Nov 29 10:18:06 * timeless_mbp sighs Nov 29 10:18:21 * Stskeeps 's usefulness ratio (thanks divided by total posts) is 2.711 Nov 29 10:18:22 XChat is so purty when it's blurred behind a context menu Nov 29 10:18:51 well, after all the "user experience" crap we've had to endure during the summit, I have to say it's quite ironic that the only trait of the N900 is that the user experience... is not consistent! Nov 29 10:18:51 Stskeeps, doing better than me. I'm down to like .9 or so Nov 29 10:18:53 GAN900: do i want to see? Nov 29 10:18:57 timeless_mbp: thats a general nokia issue w/ phone os' Nov 29 10:19:06 Stskeeps, nice Nov 29 10:19:11 Stskeeps, how many posts? Nov 29 10:19:19 timeless_mbp: the basic issue is the swirl functionality was invented after the gui 'standard' was probably speced or something Nov 29 10:19:21 asidjazz: user interface behavior for browsers will never match their platforms Nov 29 10:19:30 asidjazz: um Nov 29 10:19:33 timeless_mbp, the trolling on Talk or the XChat blurring? Nov 29 10:19:35 crashanddie_: 658 total posts, total thanked 1784 Nov 29 10:19:35 timeless_mbp: shoulda prioritized finalizing something general like 'zoom' Nov 29 10:19:39 GAN900: xchat Nov 29 10:19:43 talk doesn't exist Nov 29 10:19:45 Stskeeps, nice work! Nov 29 10:19:52 well i do agree in general Nov 29 10:20:09 asidjazz, you're a follower? Nov 29 10:20:12 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=398797#post398797 Nov 29 10:20:33 timeless_mbp, well, it's not a bug, I just think the compositor effect looks cool with all of the colored text. ;) Nov 29 10:20:36 lbt, weak Nov 29 10:20:44 hrm Nov 29 10:20:48 Mer has a 2.0gb vm Nov 29 10:20:53 and it has 0 avail :( Nov 29 10:20:53 crashanddie_: it's sunday Nov 29 10:20:54 * timeless_mbp cries Nov 29 10:21:00 timeless_mbp: i'll up that in my next version Nov 29 10:21:02 * Stskeeps goes edit Nov 29 10:21:07 Stskeeps: i guess i can't really install Scratchbox into this Mer Nov 29 10:21:21 timeless_mbp: aye :P Nov 29 10:21:25 lolll lbt Nov 29 10:21:31 already time to call it mer2? Nov 29 10:21:33 asidjazz: so... Nov 29 10:21:42 timeless_mbp: I have a scratchbox-fake package Nov 29 10:21:42 hello Nov 29 10:21:43 crashanddie_: mer2 = harmattan base Nov 29 10:21:50 the browser zoom was added by a browser dev Nov 29 10:21:56 Stskeeps, mer2 in french sounds like "merde", "shit" Nov 29 10:22:03 Stskeeps, how about we jump to mer3? Nov 29 10:22:04 it wasn't added by the browser ui spec person Nov 29 10:22:08 nokia created the browser Nov 29 10:22:15 same as maemo Nov 29 10:22:15 crashanddie_: it's a versatile word Nov 29 10:22:18 and we weren't going to discuss it with the entire ui team Nov 29 10:22:18 developers dont just create fatures Nov 29 10:22:22 because we needed the feature Nov 29 10:22:26 specs are written up of what they will do Nov 29 10:22:32 um Nov 29 10:22:35 oh ok Nov 29 10:22:36 i work for Nokia Nov 29 10:22:38 on the browser team Nov 29 10:22:42 Stskeeps, that being said, "mer4" sounds like "meerkat" Nov 29 10:22:46 a colleague of mine did this Nov 29 10:22:47 ok i tought you were coming at me w/ some suggestion :) Nov 29 10:22:52 no Nov 29 10:22:53 thought* Nov 29 10:22:54 crashanddie_: Mer 4.0, 'Meerkat' Nov 29 10:22:55 ok n/m Nov 29 10:22:55 :P Nov 29 10:22:55 i'm explaining facts Nov 29 10:23:08 we get vetod whenever we suggest/request stuff Nov 29 10:23:15 Stskeeps, we need codenames, clearly. Nov 29 10:23:21 so this wasn't something we were going to negotiate w/ the global ui people Nov 29 10:23:22 so you're saying it was an issue where it would exist or not Nov 29 10:23:32 i'm saying the browser needed a zoom Nov 29 10:23:34 we implemented it Nov 29 10:23:36 Stskeeps, http://www.comparethemeerkat.com/my-movies Nov 29 10:23:41 * GAN900 <3's UI team. Nov 29 10:23:43 we were not going to ask the global team to do it Nov 29 10:23:49 cuz it was obvious that there wasnt time to look back at something liek that and implement it elsewhere Nov 29 10:23:49 because they'd have ordered us not to do anything Nov 29 10:23:53 which wouldn't have been better Nov 29 10:24:16 it's better that the browser work than that everything consistently have on usable zooming Nov 29 10:24:18 i agree Nov 29 10:24:22 ok good ;) Nov 29 10:24:31 well i hope at some point it does get implemented :) Nov 29 10:24:34 note that we have a contract for maemo6 Nov 29 10:24:42 timeless_mbp, where do we vote :) Nov 29 10:24:45 and it says "the browser is the browser" "the platform is the platform" Nov 29 10:25:00 that basically means that the browser and platform can/will diverge at times Nov 29 10:25:12 "How can we take existing UI paradigms, break them and reimplement so they're completely unusable?" Nov 29 10:25:24 GAN900: which one? Nov 29 10:25:28 or how many? :) Nov 29 10:25:39 i'm not saying i like spiral zoom fwiw Nov 29 10:25:59 the idea is awesome Nov 29 10:25:59 My current pick for the day are the ctrl-* shortcuts. Nov 29 10:26:02 i was actually opposed to it, i to this day do not believe it was the right answer Nov 29 10:26:03 the way it works kinda sweet Nov 29 10:26:15 I never use it Nov 29 10:26:15 GAN900: heh Nov 29 10:26:17 well idea != solution Nov 29 10:26:27 does the n900 have multitouch capability (noob) Nov 29 10:26:29 I just wish the rocker zoomed in steps. Nov 29 10:26:33 asidjazz: no Nov 29 10:26:38 a friend of mine just received its n900, switching from a 3 years old k750, he said me it was “a jump into the 21st century” :) Nov 29 10:26:38 surprised Nov 29 10:26:39 well, "not really" Nov 29 10:26:45 the n900 uses a resistive screen Nov 29 10:26:46 hardware-wise Nov 29 10:26:54 timeless_mbp: upping space for vmdks to 4gb Nov 29 10:26:55 multitouch is generally a feature of capacitive screens Nov 29 10:26:59 Corsac: K750i was awesome Nov 29 10:27:00 Stskeeps++ Nov 29 10:27:09 So I could get back to 100% zoom and fix the broken text rendering. :( Nov 29 10:27:12 asidjazz: it's kinda sorta possible to hack it Nov 29 10:27:15 so thats another good ? .. why did nokia choose resistive Nov 29 10:27:27 asidjazz: resistive is an older technology Nov 29 10:27:34 also cheaper Nov 29 10:27:35 asidjazz, more precise Nov 29 10:27:36 so stability? Nov 29 10:27:40 it maps more closely to classical user behaviors Nov 29 10:27:44 nokia doesnt seem to do 'cheaper' though Nov 29 10:27:50 heh Nov 29 10:27:51 * timeless_mbp rotfl Nov 29 10:27:55 you're kidding, right? Nov 29 10:27:57 wasn't n8x0's made up of spare parts? Nov 29 10:28:00 There are a variety of advantages and disadvantages to both techs. Nov 29 10:28:01 well compared to alot of other phone companys Nov 29 10:28:08 nokia always seems to pack in the best Nov 29 10:28:14 nokia prides itself on cost advantage against other vendors Nov 29 10:28:27 asidjazz: when we do that, it's because we have volume Nov 29 10:28:37 so we're leveraging volume to reduce cost per component Nov 29 10:28:47 I rea. Nov 29 10:28:51 see comment about n8x0s and spare parts Nov 29 10:28:55 lly want Stantum multi Nov 29 10:28:56 the 770 too fwiw Nov 29 10:29:11 well i dont think its a bad choice if its more stable and maps closer Nov 29 10:29:15 multitouch is kinda candy Nov 29 10:29:25 the thing about multitouch is... Nov 29 10:29:31 it adds cost to the base components Nov 29 10:29:40 and in order to benefit, you have to design everything for it Nov 29 10:29:46 yea i read about that Nov 29 10:29:49 GAN: Talked to some Nokia devs at the recent meetup Nov 29 10:29:55 to say that's nontrivial is a whopper of an understatement Nov 29 10:29:55 in this article about those new 10 point touch lcd screens Nov 29 10:30:04 GAN: They say multitouch is the major reason for not releasing Harmattan for N900 Nov 29 10:30:45 RST38h: that and the fact that we have no idea what will be in harmattan or when :) Nov 29 10:30:45 RST38h, awful reason Nov 29 10:30:49 GAN: And when I commented that multitouch isn't used widely even in iPhone UI, the response I got was "Harmattan UI heavily relies on it" Nov 29 10:30:55 Multitouch is SO gimmicky in practice Nov 29 10:31:07 oh brother Nov 29 10:31:22 No details of course, so you are free to fantasize Nov 29 10:31:28 * Stskeeps still wonders how developers will deal with SDK's then Nov 29 10:31:31 It sounds horrifying Nov 29 10:31:46 Trying to zoom on the iPhone is impossible Nov 29 10:31:48 actually portions of maemo6 are supposedly open Nov 29 10:31:49 unless everyone uses multitouch mac mice! Nov 29 10:31:49 :P Nov 29 10:32:01 If everything needs two fingers on the screen. . . . Nov 29 10:32:05 Stskeeps: a manager of mine has one Nov 29 10:32:09 it's really slick Nov 29 10:32:20 ....if you can find the sources, you're free to figure out what they've done Nov 29 10:32:33 timeless_mbp: gitorious and qt/dui, yeah Nov 29 10:32:59 Logitech MX Revolution Nov 29 10:33:06 * RST38h always thought of recent mac mice as some weird kind of sex toys Nov 29 10:33:10 The One True Mouse Nov 29 10:33:16 Guess it started with the first iMac... Nov 29 10:33:21 GAN900, then the phone is limited to people who have at least two fingers! discrimination! Nov 29 10:33:29 timeless_mbp: going back to quality .. compared to copmanys like htc .. motorola .. palm .. you agree nokia usually packs more impressive hardware? Nov 29 10:33:35 GAN: BTW, yes, multitouch means no one-handed UI Nov 29 10:33:44 Something lowly 5800 excels in Nov 29 10:34:03 multitouch has one sole actual functional purpose imho .. zoom. Nov 29 10:34:11 johnx, well, we already limit amputee usage with landscape Nov 29 10:34:13 and if the cost of it is too great for that f it Nov 29 10:34:18 johnx: You can still use your nose and other appendages Nov 29 10:34:22 * GAN900 talked to one of those at FLS Nov 29 10:34:30 RST38h, thank you for going there :) Nov 29 10:34:31 asidjazz: i don't use htc/motorola hardware Nov 29 10:34:42 i've owned two sony ericssons iirc Nov 29 10:34:49 multitouch is great if you are a ancient one with dozens of tentacles Nov 29 10:35:01 and truth be told, i don't care about hardware Nov 29 10:35:06 what i want is for the hardware to work Nov 29 10:35:13 johnx: The nose thing is no joke, that is what poor Moscow metrosexuals are forced to use on their iPhones in winter season =) Nov 29 10:35:13 if you read /. recently about MS-Intel Nov 29 10:35:13 suihkulokki: hence proving maemo UI team is actually tentacle creatures? ;) Nov 29 10:35:22 Useful for virtual input and emulators Nov 29 10:35:28 you know that wanted hardware to work is sadly much more than one can ask for Nov 29 10:35:30 poor ms Nov 29 10:35:31 Most everything else screams gimmick Nov 29 10:35:35 suihkulokki: thank you for going there (C)johnx =) Nov 29 10:35:52 im only really bringing up features .. cpu .. space .. etc. Nov 29 10:37:02 suihkulokki, I think Nokia missed out on some really unique marketing opportunities :) Nov 29 10:37:29 asidjazz: sorry, i really don't know/care Nov 29 10:37:37 i should put it differently Nov 29 10:37:43 i've bought roughly 5 cell phones since 2001 Nov 29 10:37:50 hrm, no, 4 Nov 29 10:37:56 the first ones were nokias Nov 29 10:38:00 i bought them for features Nov 29 10:38:05 Don't taunt the octopuss Nov 29 10:38:13 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd4_1259409112 Nov 29 10:38:14 i didn't care much about cost, i wanted IR+BT+Handsfree Nov 29 10:38:14 -s Nov 29 10:38:38 the later phones were sony ericson Nov 29 10:38:51 again, i bought them for features (ir, bt) Nov 29 10:39:06 the later phones had cameras, about which i didn't really care much, and color screens (ibid) Nov 29 10:39:21 the nokia 8890 was basically the sickest phone Nov 29 10:39:24 the last one had a sony memorystick slot (useless) Nov 29 10:39:26 since 2001 i had Nokia 3330, Nokia 3100, SE K800i (last 3 years), and a Nokia N900 now Nov 29 10:39:41 and siemens sl45i before or after the 3100 Nov 29 10:39:42 it flew around the room when you got a call Nov 29 10:39:45 i was w/ Cingular for that time period Nov 29 10:39:54 asidjazz: how's that? Nov 29 10:40:01 and when i was in ca.us looking for phones, they didn't offer nokias that had the features i wanted (ir,bt) Nov 29 10:40:07 (the phone flying) Nov 29 10:40:14 i wasn't a particularly demanding customer Nov 29 10:40:14 http://www.all4mobiles.com/photo/nokia%208890.jpg Nov 29 10:40:21 quite simple demands, really :) Nov 29 10:40:21 i went through like 5 of those Nov 29 10:41:21 Hiya, off question. I have Skype and Haze accounts. Is it possible to just have skype online without disabling the Haze account? Nov 29 10:41:39 when theres a skype app ? Nov 29 10:41:45 or addon.. Nov 29 10:42:03 asidjazz: it is built-in Nov 29 10:42:14 just add an VoIP account Nov 29 10:42:19 cvandonderen, not so far as I've been able to divine. Nov 29 10:42:20 cvandonderen: you can disable any individual presence accounts Nov 29 10:42:22 cvandonderen: you can create custom presences which have some of your accounts offline Nov 29 10:42:25 by using the status thing Nov 29 10:42:38 eh? Nov 29 10:42:39 but i don't know what haze is Nov 29 10:42:46 I do not understand Nov 29 10:42:50 timeless_mbp: MSN Nov 29 10:42:52 cvandonderen / GAN900 : you should be using enus1 :) Nov 29 10:43:04 wait Nov 29 10:43:12 timeless_mbp: haze is a telepathy component Nov 29 10:43:14 are you saying haze breaks skype / vice-versa? Nov 29 10:43:45 timeless_mbp: no, it is just in the same panel Nov 29 10:43:48 i can have googletalk enabled/disabled independently of enabling/disabling skype Nov 29 10:43:55 cvandonderen: open the status chooser; there's a button called something like "new status" (i forget what it's called exactly; i don't have an n900 on me) Nov 29 10:43:59 I can but everything on offline or available Nov 29 10:44:10 ah, you can't set yourself Away? Nov 29 10:44:14 cvandonderen: tap an individual account Nov 29 10:44:14 I thought we fixed that Nov 29 10:44:19 you can change it to offline Nov 29 10:44:24 i still would wish there was profile based account enable/disable Nov 29 10:44:26 that doesn't turn off the other accounts Nov 29 10:44:36 Stskeeps: "@home" "@work" ? Nov 29 10:44:39 timeless_mbp & wjt: found it, thanks :-) Nov 29 10:44:46 eh. hildon-status-menu stalled Nov 29 10:44:53 i have jabber, skype, sip, googletalk and gadugadu in N900, and only for the last one i had to install additional plugin (haze) Nov 29 10:44:57 timeless_mbp: actually @wifi @dataplan Nov 29 10:45:07 @ukraine Nov 29 10:45:11 * timeless_mbp grumbles Nov 29 10:45:33 but gotcha Nov 29 10:45:39 i'd expect that'd be doable w/ third party software Nov 29 10:45:42 cvandonderen: oh sweet Nov 29 10:45:46 it's probably worth doing Nov 29 10:45:48 cos i don't mind XMPP over data plan, but skype and MSN is a bit heavy Nov 29 10:45:54 then showing people @nokia that it's valuable Nov 29 10:46:12 Stskeeps: so um Nov 29 10:46:13 timeless_mbp, put them on limited data plans? :) Nov 29 10:46:19 this is the longest sdk install ive ever sen Nov 29 10:46:23 johnx: grumble Nov 29 10:46:33 i must say, that's one of the worst parts of working for nokia Nov 29 10:46:43 i had absolutely ZERO incentive to test skype Nov 29 10:46:49 why should i? my phone bill is paid Nov 29 10:46:59 aaah, I see what you mean Nov 29 10:47:11 johnx: yeah, that's one scenario n900 isn't well suited for. non-cool data plans Nov 29 10:47:26 Stskeeps: it isn't like the iPhone is better Nov 29 10:47:27 mine is pretty damn cool, but yeah, not everyone's is :) Nov 29 10:47:35 timeless_mbp: of course not, but it usually comes with a good data plan Nov 29 10:47:39 timeless_mbp, dropped connections help minimize data usage :D Nov 29 10:47:50 :) Nov 29 10:47:59 does media player support flac? Nov 29 10:48:01 note: i'm not saying i want nokia to take away my plan Nov 29 10:48:03 on the N900? Nov 29 10:48:04 ah, though that's a iPhone/US specific thing Nov 29 10:48:17 right now i'm in poland, and i can't get a personal number for 3 months now as it requires a personal ID number Nov 29 10:48:31 which i don't have (yet) due to bureaucracy Nov 29 10:48:32 or ogg? Nov 29 10:48:33 timeless_mbp, just saying they should take the higher up's data plans away :) Nov 29 10:48:37 err, personal number = data plan Nov 29 10:48:45 yes! Nov 29 10:48:51 and make the ui team roam Nov 29 10:48:55 at least make them leave .fi Nov 29 10:49:11 crashanddie_: You want Ogg Support, available from Extras Nov 29 10:49:14 crashanddie_: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/10/16/ogg-support-next-steps/ Nov 29 10:49:27 timeless_mbp, nah, make the higher ups use pre-production devices. they'll report bugs, UI team will fix them :) Nov 29 10:49:28 qwerty12_N900, does it drain the battery? Nov 29 10:49:50 johnx: think they did, didn't you listen to ari's talk? Nov 29 10:49:51 crashanddie_: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/ Nov 29 10:49:56 crashanddie_: No idea, I use Limewire and co so all my music are MPEs Nov 29 10:50:05 MP3s, even Nov 29 10:50:11 Stskeeps, nevermind then :) Nov 29 10:50:12 ty kulve Nov 29 10:50:34 johnx: some harsh words about tracker and such Nov 29 10:50:35 :P Nov 29 10:50:39 timeless_mbp: would capasitive vs resistent screens explain the smoothness of the iphone lock slider vs nokias? Nov 29 10:50:48 err the n900's Nov 29 10:50:56 kulve, awesome Nov 29 10:51:03 Will Skype get video calling? Nov 29 10:51:06 asidjazz, no. Nov 29 10:51:23 asidjazz, Apple just does animation smoothing for it. Nov 29 10:51:30 kulve: did you make a post to t.m.o? Nov 29 10:51:36 pupnik_: yes Nov 29 10:51:37 i would say its more than smoothing Nov 29 10:51:38 Anyone knows if those extra gst components (AC3,MKV,etc) are worth installing? Nov 29 10:51:53 like if u swipe back and forth quickly it never lags where the n900 will Nov 29 10:51:56 * crashanddie_ rips some spotify for the flight Nov 29 10:51:59 Will they be automatically supported in media player? Nov 29 10:52:01 the ffmpeg opened up youtube .flvs for me RST38h Nov 29 10:52:02 kulve, qwerty12_N900, thanks Nov 29 10:52:11 asidjazz, it's also moving less than half the pixels around. Nov 29 10:52:12 RST38h: still in extras-devel i think, so test them out and vote? :P Nov 29 10:52:23 Stskeeps: -testing afaik Nov 29 10:52:28 same rationale Nov 29 10:52:29 :P Nov 29 10:52:40 Stskeeps: just wondering if they are optified and actually work =) Nov 29 10:53:13 "Government zeal in pursuing anyone suspected of harbouring paedophilic tendencies may shortly rebound Nov 29 10:53:21 qwerty12_N900, look outside Nov 29 10:53:27 ...with unintended consequences for the 2012 Olympic logo" Nov 29 10:53:50 asidjazz, did Quake III run faster on your old Pentium III machine if you reduced the resolution? Nov 29 10:54:03 crashanddie_: Nothing but rain... and the binman Nov 29 10:54:44 qwerty12_N900, not rain Nov 29 10:54:49 s/if/when/ Nov 29 10:54:50 RST38h: lisa simpson giving head? Nov 29 10:54:50 notice how plugging-in headphones gets you 3 more hours music playback :/ Nov 29 10:54:51 GAN900 meant: asidjazz, did Quake III run faster on your old Pentium III machine when you reduced the resolution? Nov 29 10:54:58 qwerty12_N900, have you ever seen rain bounce back from the ground? Nov 29 10:55:07 Stskeeps: I checked the London logo - possibilities boggle the mind Nov 29 10:55:14 crashanddie_: No, I can't say that I have Nov 29 10:55:18 RST38h: OGC? Nov 29 10:55:23 Stskeeps: Besides, it is freaking PUPLE Nov 29 10:55:55 Purple Nov 29 10:56:05 qwerty: apparently Nov 29 10:56:36 That logo still makes me crack up Nov 29 10:56:38 Is it a British version of FTC or what? Nov 29 10:56:51 qwerty12_N900: you should see my uni's new logo Nov 29 10:56:55 everyone hates it, for good reason Nov 29 10:57:01 Stskeeps: link? Nov 29 10:57:11 Stskeeps: The arhus one? Nov 29 10:57:15 Well, UMD's "new" logo is not exactly a work of art either Nov 29 10:57:20 * Nov 29 10:58:20 RST38h: http://www.designmanual.au.dk/data/24890343/logo_tre_varianter.gif Nov 29 10:58:22 top one Nov 29 10:59:08 Stskeeps: This was definitely created on a different kind of drugs than the London Olympics logo... Nov 29 10:59:28 "it's not a dick." Nov 29 10:59:41 that's such a great slogan Nov 29 10:59:48 Looks more like a typographic problem Nov 29 10:59:48 RST38h: http://www.mukamo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/goatse-2012-olympic-logo.jpg Nov 29 10:59:59 BTW, whoever suggested watching Zombieland, thanks =) Nov 29 11:00:10 qwerty12_N900, opening up london to the 2012 olympics? Nov 29 11:00:22 Hehe Nov 29 11:00:28 RST38h, might have been me. lots of brainless fun, eh? Nov 29 11:00:37 qwerty12: http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/WEBIMAGES/MISC/Sochi2014.GIF Nov 29 11:00:38 That logo was shown on BBC News Nov 29 11:00:45 yea zombieland rules Nov 29 11:00:59 johnx: Well, comes wery close to Tremors in terms of hilarity Nov 29 11:01:03 RST38h: *shudder* Nov 29 11:01:09 johnx: A bit overdone, of course =) Nov 29 11:01:24 I think that's part of the joke really Nov 29 11:01:39 and actually, it was supposed to be a TV series, IIRC Nov 29 11:01:42 hey Omegamoon Nov 29 11:01:55 johnx: Yea, plus that is what you get for easily accessible special effects Nov 29 11:02:07 Ah, will be waiting fo the next installment =) Nov 29 11:02:13 no way Zombieland is way funnier than tremors Nov 29 11:02:24 johnx: Hi! Nov 29 11:02:52 Wasn't the Zombieland director whining about how he was not going to make a sequel due to piracy? Nov 29 11:03:28 johnx: Also, the geeky guy appears to be identical to the one in Stargate Universe. Is it the new chic to have a geeky guy ? =) Nov 29 11:05:00 RST38h, yeah actually. The IT Crowd is a pretty popular show even. but the geeky guy in zombieland > * in stargate universe Nov 29 11:05:47 not in fat content, anyway... Nov 29 11:06:00 * RST38h plays with a fork Nov 29 11:07:20 so are there any themes yet? Nov 29 11:08:18 bossateal? Nov 29 11:08:39 bossa-teal looks awesome Nov 29 11:08:52 And there's wazd's Marine Nov 29 11:09:03 is that in the app manager Nov 29 11:09:26 bossa is too brihgt and plain Nov 29 11:09:40 bossa-teal: yes, Marina: no: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32761&highlight=marina Nov 29 11:11:48 dpkg -i marina.dev i assume Nov 29 11:11:51 err shroot* Nov 29 11:12:52 asidjazz: dunno Nov 29 11:13:01 keep in mind that to use resistive, you need to press Nov 29 11:13:04 typically w/ a fingernail Nov 29 11:13:30 timeless Nov 29 11:13:31 if you're trying to gracefully slide the tip of a finger, then the fact that it doesn't work well shouldn't really come as much of a surprise Nov 29 11:13:34 hi aSIMULAtor Nov 29 11:13:36 i have a question for you, maybe you can help? Nov 29 11:13:39 maybe Nov 29 11:13:42 i'll msg u Nov 29 11:14:06 lol Nov 29 11:14:17 [`huh Nov 29 11:14:24 Does the N900 use X11? Nov 29 11:14:30 yes Nov 29 11:14:31 X11/X.org Nov 29 11:14:46 How does it write to the screen? GL + Framebuffer? Nov 29 11:14:54 or some odd propietary thing Nov 29 11:15:05 framebuffer + GL on top? go see xserver-xorg-video-fbdev Nov 29 11:17:12 hej Kusk Nov 29 11:18:58 3rd time creating an ubuntu vmware + installing maemo sdk.. Nov 29 11:19:11 why? Nov 29 11:19:24 1st was i didnt allocate enough room Nov 29 11:19:32 and why not install Ubuntu on your computer (sans VMware) and install SDK there? Nov 29 11:19:34 and allocating more broke ubuntu Nov 29 11:19:46 2nd looks like gets to maemo for the sdk died/failed during install Nov 29 11:20:04 http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/11/04/#20091104-android_mythbusters Executive summary: Android is a screwed, hard-coded, non-portable abomination Nov 29 11:20:15 i need to be able to copy/move this to other machines Nov 29 11:20:23 old Nov 29 11:20:32 Or maybe you should consider getting a use-ready image with everything peinstalled... Nov 29 11:20:46 pupnik_, yeah. more tersely: "Android is not UNIX" Nov 29 11:20:52 pupnik: Yea, seen that. Besides, app programmers complain that there is no market for android apps Nov 29 11:21:00 johnx: Not Linux Nov 29 11:21:07 RST38h: those exist? :-D Nov 29 11:21:10 johnx: It is Unixy enough to be called Unix Nov 29 11:21:11 RST38h, sys v ipc isn't there Nov 29 11:21:15 asidjazz: yes Nov 29 11:21:23 johnx: there are unices without it Nov 29 11:21:27 no POSIX threads Nov 29 11:21:32 johnx: it is somewhat of abomination anyway Nov 29 11:21:35 yeah and it really doesn't intend to be, so that criticism may fail by criterion of false expectations Nov 29 11:21:43 johnx: there are unices without posix threads Nov 29 11:21:55 RST38h: where? Nov 29 11:21:59 RST38h, name one other semi-modern UNIX that doesn't have either? Nov 29 11:22:04 asidjazz: google? Nov 29 11:22:13 (honestly curious) Nov 29 11:22:22 johnx: Why should android be semi-modern? Nov 29 11:22:53 * RST38h can compile FBSD kernel without SySV ipc and posix threads Nov 29 11:23:06 don't a lot of apps end up breaking horribly? Nov 29 11:23:10 In fact, a few years ago, the default kernel was for some reason compiled without sysv ipc Nov 29 11:23:17 johnx: Some, yes. Not many. Nov 29 11:23:32 johnx: Mine did though (using X11 SHM) so I had to recompile it Nov 29 11:23:40 also, it's a phone appliance, and not a university mainframe :) Nov 29 11:23:54 well, I guess we can put this argument away Nov 29 11:24:06 still i wish that kind of big_brothr+lockdown would die in a fire Nov 29 11:24:32 There is nothing thee about lockdown Nov 29 11:24:38 it's just interesting how everything else is getting more UNIXy recently Nov 29 11:24:56 It is more about some kid at Google who thought he could make a decent mobile Linux distro Nov 29 11:25:12 RST38h, actually, it's from a company google bought, IIRC Nov 29 11:25:13 johnx: "Those who do not understand Unix are doomed to invent it again and again" Nov 29 11:25:19 which explains the mindset a lot more Nov 29 11:25:19 HAHAHAHA Nov 29 11:25:32 johnx: Ok, so the kid worked in that company Nov 29 11:25:52 RST38h, I always heard "Those who don't understand Unix are doomed to reimplement it, poorly." Nov 29 11:25:54 johnx: And nobody pulled his hands out at the right moment Nov 29 11:26:16 johnx: Yea, the "poorly" part sometimes figures there Nov 29 11:26:33 johnx: I skipped it as it did not sound canonical enough =) Nov 29 11:26:59 RST38h, exactly. Google probably saw a nearly "finished" product from the front end, didn't look too much into how it worked, bought it to get to market really fast and ended up with Android :) Nov 29 11:27:31 johnx: Well, it is not lethal really, they can always redo the backend properly or order it from a company like EA Nov 29 11:27:37 heh Nov 29 11:27:51 RST38h, yeah, not fatal, just not something I want to hack on for fun Nov 29 11:28:01 johnx: I would be ok with it Nov 29 11:28:14 johnx: Mainly dissatisfied with the necessity to go through Java Nov 29 11:29:09 Still, something like HTC Leo, running Android, is going to be mighty attractive Nov 29 11:29:10 * timeless_mbp shrug Nov 29 11:29:14 Android is Android Nov 29 11:29:22 if you buy Android, you're buying it for Android userspace Nov 29 11:29:27 not gnu userspace Nov 29 11:30:08 htc == crap Nov 29 11:30:14 anyone who thought that Android was gnu userspace is so deluded, they aren't worth talking to Nov 29 11:30:15 how so? Nov 29 11:30:25 crap plastic Nov 29 11:30:30 crap battery life Nov 29 11:30:32 crap kb's Nov 29 11:30:34 crap hardware Nov 29 11:30:38 * RST38h buys phones to make phone calls and use the mobile internet Nov 29 11:30:52 crap design Nov 29 11:30:57 Who gives a flying fuck what "userspace" they are based upon? Nov 29 11:31:13 RST38h, people who like porting emulators to them Nov 29 11:34:15 johnx: not me Nov 29 11:34:35 only need a few apis Nov 29 11:36:14 lolmarina is supe rbroke Nov 29 11:36:15 super broke* Nov 29 11:36:28 reboot first Nov 29 11:37:28 rly? i was able to choose it just fine Nov 29 11:37:29 ok Nov 29 11:39:06 RST38h, it's still unpleasant to work with a poorly designed userspace, from your point of view though, isn't it? I mean, tell me PalmOS is a fun place to work :) Nov 29 11:39:15 * timeless_mbp sighs Nov 29 11:39:23 * timeless_mbp considers moving dev out of ~ into /media Nov 29 11:39:31 lol userspace Nov 29 11:39:35 johnx: I only work with applications, as long as they are ok I am fine Nov 29 11:39:43 timeless_mbp: whats ur position @ nokia? Nov 29 11:39:50 browser engineer Nov 29 11:39:56 timeless_mbp: you in the US? Nov 29 11:39:57 johnx: When developing something, I am mainly interested in standard apis (libc really) being present Nov 29 11:40:01 no Nov 29 11:40:06 finland? Nov 29 11:40:11 . Nov 29 11:40:15 johnx: The userspace makes almost no difference Nov 29 11:40:37 do you konw if nokia still has an sf office in the sega building Nov 29 11:40:41 in san francisc Nov 29 11:40:43 RST38h, I guess, in my mind userspace includes the libs available to the programmer (ie, everything that isn't the kernel) Nov 29 11:40:47 i beleive it was for ngage.. Nov 29 11:41:08 cafeteria there is a+ Nov 29 11:41:16 johnx: even so, semi-compliant libc is enough for me Nov 29 11:42:10 RST38h, what I'm getting at is that you, the developer, have a limited amount of time, and if something frustrates you enough, you'll go elsewhere unless you're in it for the money (and there is serious money in it) Nov 29 11:42:38 yea, more or less Nov 29 11:42:50 there's (some) money in making apps for the iphone, so anything coming late to the party better be semi-enjoyable to program for Nov 29 11:42:58 but lack of GNU/Linux userspace does not frustrate me Nov 29 11:43:09 RST38h, yes. but it frustrates a lot of other people Nov 29 11:43:17 maybe... Nov 29 11:43:32 lack of windows mobile APIs frustrates a certain subset of developers Nov 29 11:44:03 Hmm.... I have a strange situation with my phone... web browser is running, full-screen, the bottom right button appears (to show top/bottom bars) but it doesn't work Nov 29 11:44:24 lack of APIs that *anyone* likes can mean a lack of "amateur" (non-paid) developer enthusiasm Nov 29 11:44:25 if i press the power button I would expect to be able to from the drop down menu (open the home screen) Nov 29 11:44:41 odin_, hit ctrl+backspace Nov 29 11:45:03 ok that works Nov 29 11:45:13 johnx: you are supposed to develop for android in java Nov 29 11:45:19 do not forget that Nov 29 11:45:25 would be nice to have the same function as a button to the "on/off menu" Nov 29 11:45:45 RST38h, that's great. some java devs like it. People who don't like java automatically hate it Nov 29 11:46:20 odin_, I think you can make "plugins" for that menu Nov 29 11:46:20 so all that userspace argument is completely out of scope as far as google is concerned Nov 29 11:46:20 johnx: correct Nov 29 11:46:23 would certainly be a sensible place for a task manager to be launched Nov 29 11:46:54 indeed Nov 29 11:47:10 just a "way out" if something is not working, as users will go for off switch Nov 29 11:47:49 odin_, if you get a chance that might be worth bringing up on talk.m.o with a brainstorm attached or as an enhancement on the bugzilla Nov 29 11:48:06 Stskeeps: if you use shared folders on linux Nov 29 11:48:10 how do you write to them? Nov 29 11:48:18 err, smb maybe? not sure Nov 29 11:48:24 RST38h, it's "out of scope" at google's own peril. And they've already opened the doors a little wider to writing "native" code Nov 29 11:48:24 yes I am writing down my ideas/concerns offline at the moment, maybe after Ive used it somemore some ideas might not sound so good Nov 29 11:48:25 * Stskeeps uses scp Nov 29 11:48:30 i need a writable fs Nov 29 11:48:35 since i have no space! Nov 29 11:48:49 timeless, sshfs or nfs Nov 29 11:49:04 depends on what kind of speed and permissions requirements you have Nov 29 11:49:05 i have libsmbclient installed... Nov 29 11:49:13 i trust myself Nov 29 11:49:14 is timeless_mbp releated to timeless of mozilla development ? Nov 29 11:49:20 smb doesn't support symlinks unless I'm mistaken Nov 29 11:49:35 odin: yes Nov 29 11:49:53 or rather, timeless_mbp is timeless_mbp the same timeless_mbp you'd find on irc.mozilla.org Nov 29 11:49:56 hi timeless 1 Nov 29 11:49:59 hi timeless ! Nov 29 11:50:02 hi Nov 29 11:50:08 timeless: did u see my ?'s Nov 29 11:50:15 johnx: Well, that is something for Google to stumble upon and [possibly] fail Nov 29 11:50:40 asidjazz: about smoothness? i thought i commented Nov 29 11:50:46 johnx: None of us can suggest Google Android strategy any better than we can suggest Nokia Maemo strategy Nov 29 11:50:54 oh Nov 29 11:50:57 about sf? Nov 29 11:50:59 no idea Nov 29 11:51:15 we have offices in mountainview Nov 29 11:51:17 iirc we have a couple of other offices in the bay area Nov 29 11:51:27 yea Nov 29 11:51:30 you have a huge one in uhm Nov 29 11:51:33 mountain view kinda Nov 29 11:51:36 right around there Nov 29 11:51:46 timeless_mbp: do you konw a dietrich ayala ? Nov 29 11:51:56 yes Nov 29 11:52:00 hah rly Nov 29 11:52:04 hes a close friend Nov 29 11:52:22 odin: http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/contacts/nokia-offices Nov 29 11:52:35 select united states of america from the drop down Nov 29 11:52:55 650 Townsend and One Market Spear Tower Nov 29 11:53:12 yea thats the sega building Nov 29 11:53:23 RST38h, agreed Nov 29 11:53:29 this interface is broken http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ Nov 29 11:53:49 TomaszD: broken how? Nov 29 11:54:10 timeless, look at the error on the right Nov 29 11:54:22 Notice: Undefined offset: 0 in ? Nov 29 11:54:40 yeah, you can't go to the second page of the extras-testing list Nov 29 11:55:27 TomaszD: file a bug :) Nov 29 11:55:28 the page chooser disappeared Nov 29 11:55:30 ugh Nov 29 11:55:31 :) Nov 29 11:56:00 this just goes to show how often people come there and vote :P Nov 29 11:56:26 Its speed does not do much to entice people :) Nov 29 11:56:30 http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/?org_openpsa_qbpager_packages_in_repo_page=2 Nov 29 11:56:43 google lets you cheat :) Nov 29 11:56:48 page 2 :) Nov 29 11:58:03 not sure if it loads the whole thing, I promoted my package yesterday and it's not here Nov 29 11:58:25 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/nameday-applet/0.5-0/ Nov 29 11:58:30 someone should vote for that Nov 29 11:58:33 it has 9/10 votes Nov 29 11:58:44 TomaszD: Hey, got a question about the gst modules package you uploaded Nov 29 11:58:59 hola ;) Nov 29 11:59:01 TomaszD: Is it optified? Is it safe to use? (i.e. won't break anything serious?) Nov 29 11:59:31 http://www.patrickmoberg.com/internet-vices/ Nov 29 11:59:37 RST38h, I can't say about gstreamer modules as I have not touched them, merely depend on them Nov 29 11:59:58 the whole package is like 9KB/s and doesn't install anything of its own Nov 29 12:00:04 oops, *KB Nov 29 12:00:06 :) Nov 29 12:00:32 TomaszD: Does show up as 2+MB Nov 29 12:00:35 but yes I'm planning to fix the damn *-ugly set so it's installable Nov 29 12:00:59 RST38h, look at the source, there's nothing fancy going on there Nov 29 12:01:30 So once I install the package, mkv and othe stuff should automagically work in the media player? =) Nov 29 12:01:38 yes. Nov 29 12:01:43 cooooool Nov 29 12:02:04 gonna give it a try... Nov 29 12:02:04 as long as the file formats inside the container are supported Nov 29 12:02:04 which doesn't really happen often... Nov 29 12:02:25 true, but let us see... Nov 29 12:02:45 mkv rips usually use the higher end of the h.264 profiles, which are not supported Nov 29 12:02:53 and they're usually HD Nov 29 12:02:56 which doesn't help Nov 29 12:03:52 I have this 720p rip of topgear, I converted it down to 800*something, used Xvid and MP3, works fine Nov 29 12:03:58 so I know the container support is there. Nov 29 12:04:10 * RST38h curses Matroska Nov 29 12:04:29 ah, that's what was broken for me. it must have been a really "high quality" h.264 encode Nov 29 12:04:38 does "AVC1" mean anything in that regard? Nov 29 12:05:44 johnx, you mean VC-1? Nov 29 12:05:50 if so, then no go :) Nov 29 12:05:57 qwerty12_N900: why delete zenity.ui? Nov 29 12:06:21 (headset detection) well, finally instead of asking i've downloaded the kernel sources and a had a look for myself. And there's some magic in there indeed. First of all, there's some special kind of headsets: ECI. And the eci0 pin means a lot in detection scheme. I'm not sure where it is connected and if it's pulled up or down. Also i assume the best way to obtain the detection result is to use input-events utility to monitor jack sense events but ... Nov 29 12:06:27 ... unfortunately it's not in maemo repositories. Nov 29 12:06:37 timeless_mbp: It's installed in another package; leaving it in the main zenity package causes it to have a hissy-fit Nov 29 12:06:50 ok Nov 29 12:06:53 TomaszD, nah, it's h.264 I think Nov 29 12:07:00 VC1 was what I thought at first too Nov 29 12:07:18 qwerty12_N900: what's sstrip? Nov 29 12:07:19 PaulFertser: checked pulseaudio? Nov 29 12:07:27 Stskeeps: it's several layers higher. Nov 29 12:07:45 PaulFertser: from memory eci is a proprietary nokia protocol Nov 29 12:07:52 Stskeeps: i also see there're some sysfs nodes exported that should allow to arbitrarily check the detection outcome whenever needed. Nov 29 12:07:53 johnx, I think it only supports Baseline and possibly Main Nov 29 12:07:55 and iirc we don't really implement much if any of it Nov 29 12:07:58 timeless_mbp: One of my wacky ways to knock a few Kbs off zenity. Feel free to comment it out Nov 29 12:08:09 but i could be wrong Nov 29 12:08:12 i hate alphabet soup Nov 29 12:08:14 gonna do some tests Nov 29 12:08:15 * timeless_mbp drowns in it Nov 29 12:08:27 qwerty12_N900: nah, i added -f Nov 29 12:08:28 is there any "printing" functionality in N900 ? Nov 29 12:08:33 timeless_mbp: yes, looks like it's serial protocol to communicate with multi-button headsets. But i'm unsure how exactly it influences the detection procedure since i lack the schematics. Nov 29 12:08:33 because i removed the optify bit Nov 29 12:08:53 PaulFertser: pretty much no one i know of has useful access to those bits Nov 29 12:09:00 if i have the right bits Nov 29 12:09:08 and yes, this would be for multibutton fun Nov 29 12:10:21 * Jaffa finally ways in on the console-apps in Extras thread Nov 29 12:10:26 PaulFertser, now here's something interesting: if I half insert my N810's headset into my N900 I get messages out of dbus-monitor about detect events, but nothing in the status bar area (icon) and I bet sound routing hasn't changed yet either Nov 29 12:10:34 VDVsx: thanks for sorting that thread, much appreciated Nov 29 12:10:35 Ok, now i'll try to add a useful comment to the ticket, i think that'll allow the guy to diagnose further. Nov 29 12:10:46 PaulFertser: thanks Nov 29 12:10:47 PaulFertser, thanks Nov 29 12:10:55 :-O Nov 29 12:10:56 multiple buttons are usually realized with resistors, generating different voltages at the ADC input Nov 29 12:11:21 Jaffa, :) Nov 29 12:11:34 RST38h: yes but ECI is a serial exchange protocol: /* ECI RX/TX connected to mic/bias line */ (from the sources) Nov 29 12:11:52 Ah Nov 29 12:12:01 that would need a chip in the headset then Nov 29 12:12:21 yeah, it's an annoyingly smart protocol Nov 29 12:12:26 you guys are welcome to reverse it Nov 29 12:12:34 then we could actually support the buttons from the n95 one Nov 29 12:12:56 but i'd have hoped eci wouldn't adversely affect basic stuff Nov 29 12:13:17 oooh, here's something fun Nov 29 12:13:30 if I insert the jack slowly enough I think I can make the headset icon not show up :> Nov 29 12:14:03 * timeless_mbp frowns Nov 29 12:14:08 isn't the jack the receptor? Nov 29 12:14:16 johnx: find /sys -name eci0_show Nov 29 12:14:28 johnx: there're some files in that directory that are of interest Nov 29 12:14:44 madc_show, detect_show, type_show Nov 29 12:15:25 I have a "/sys/devices/platform/nokia-av" with a file eci0 in it Nov 29 12:15:33 and eci1 Nov 29 12:15:35 johnx: yep, that's it. Nov 29 12:15:58 Sorry for _show, that's something i typed being confused. Nov 29 12:16:49 oh dear Nov 29 12:16:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=398915#post398915 Nov 29 12:17:05 * Stskeeps headdesks Nov 29 12:17:08 sound routes to the headset though Nov 29 12:17:17 timeless_mbp: what time is it there? Nov 29 12:17:25 215p Nov 29 12:17:30 roughly Nov 29 12:17:34 time for lunch Nov 29 12:17:45 Stskeeps: damn Nov 29 12:17:49 I bet it's a race condition. anyone have a bet against me? Nov 29 12:18:08 I can reproduce at will by plugging it in in two "stages" Nov 29 12:18:09 not i :) Nov 29 12:18:31 timeless_mbp, I'll give you good odds. c'mon, be a sport Nov 29 12:18:48 hrm, one cookie? Nov 29 12:18:53 done Nov 29 12:19:09 so how about 2:1 odds? Nov 29 12:19:22 so the thing is the emu's are not copyright but the roms are? Nov 29 12:19:26 hrm... since the cookie's probably bad for my figure, ok Nov 29 12:19:28 PaulFertser, so what do you expect to be in eci0/eci1 in different situations? Nov 29 12:19:33 asidjazz, exactly Nov 29 12:19:40 asidjazz: typically Nov 29 12:19:45 unless the emus are evil Nov 29 12:19:55 if an emulator has stolen blobs from the thing it emulates Nov 29 12:19:58 it could violate copyright Nov 29 12:19:58 there was an emu farm near my house for a while Nov 29 12:20:02 what like containing cheats for roms or something Nov 29 12:20:10 roms are basically a copyright violation Nov 29 12:20:14 asidjazz, more like containing BIOS ROM dumps Nov 29 12:20:22 ^ Nov 29 12:20:42 johnx: no idea, i lack schematics :) But i think contents of all files there together will make some sense as one would be able to compare measured voltages, gpio statuses etc with the detection code. Nov 29 12:20:55 do you see a reference to a "detect" file? Nov 29 12:21:01 sounds like nokias temporarily obeying some kind of cease and disest Nov 29 12:21:10 PaulFertser: fwiw, mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ in theory should help Nov 29 12:21:20 johnx: static DEVICE_ATTR(detect, S_IRUGO, detect_show, NULL); Nov 29 12:21:22 it's easier than downloading all the sources yourself Nov 29 12:21:23 emulation scene has been "off the radar" for PC for years. it is not reasonable to expect that maemo should be different. Nov 29 12:21:50 asidjazz: if nokia wants to co-op with nintendo nintendo can state the terms, I guess :) Nov 29 12:21:52 asidjazz: what, a large corporation trying to run an official store Nov 29 12:22:11 which has not too long ago run a thing called "n-gage" where it partnered w/ major video game vendors? Nov 29 12:22:13 wazd: Wow, didn't know you had the poetry streak in you =) Nov 29 12:22:17 PaulFertser, yeah, i can reproduce your friend's results semi-regularly Nov 29 12:22:20 i'm shocked to hear that they'd listen to lawyers Nov 29 12:22:24 timeless_mbp: thanks, i'll probably use it the next time i need to dig the sources. Nov 29 12:22:25 thats different Nov 29 12:22:30 lol Nov 29 12:22:43 johnx: on n900 with stock headset? Nov 29 12:22:52 PaulFertser, it's the N810 headset Nov 29 12:22:53 johnx: btw, he's not my friend, just some random guy from irc :) Nov 29 12:22:54 PaulFertser: he's using an n8x0 Nov 29 12:22:59 I'll dig up my N900 headset Nov 29 12:23:14 for the record, the above tests were N810 headset on an N900 Nov 29 12:23:30 well the easy solution sounds like someone should host a non-nokia repository catalog Nov 29 12:23:44 and its 1st added package is the emu Nov 29 12:23:48 asidjazz: the main problem is that maemo.org is still not it's own legal entity.. Nov 29 12:23:48 followed by the other emu's Nov 29 12:23:48 qwerty12_N900: :D Nov 29 12:23:55 asidjazz: um, and in a non extradition country Nov 29 12:23:56 or that yea Nov 29 12:24:02 asidjazz, someone who likes getting sued and/or lives in Sweden :) Nov 29 12:24:03 and with no intention of ever visiting the civilized world Nov 29 12:24:14 sweden Nov 29 12:24:16 cayamn islands Nov 29 12:24:16 (sweden isn't civilized) Nov 29 12:24:17 whatever Nov 29 12:24:22 or is just small time Nov 29 12:24:32 ahaha Nov 29 12:24:36 Stskeeps: um Nov 29 12:24:39 I can do it with the N900 headset as well Nov 29 12:24:42 if maemo.org were its own legal entity Nov 29 12:24:48 it would hopefully choose not to try to get sued Nov 29 12:24:59 you need to be an entity the size of google to want to get sued Nov 29 12:25:05 and even google picks its fights carefully Nov 29 12:25:07 to create/validate a cease and disest takes time/$$$ unless creating a general crawling cease and disest ruleset which most ppl can easily ignore Nov 29 12:25:14 the last company to try this was pystar (?) Nov 29 12:25:14 so you just be the awesome person and start one up Nov 29 12:25:16 timeless_mbp: google, or apple :) Nov 29 12:25:19 get one, have someone else be awesome Nov 29 12:25:32 p2p catalog repository :) Nov 29 12:25:34 nokia vs. apple will be awesome Nov 29 12:25:58 that's like transformers megatron vs. optimus prime Nov 29 12:26:07 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091114101637997 Nov 29 12:26:10 legal grounds will be shaken for years ahead when they hit each other Nov 29 12:26:24 i wouldnt give apple that much credit Nov 29 12:26:25 PaulFertser, this is a first class bug :) It's no wonder that guy had so much trouble isolating it: if you aren't *trying* to make it happen it's really hard to figure out what's causing it Nov 29 12:26:32 moo-_-: apple doesn't like getting sued Nov 29 12:26:40 c.f. apple and html5 video Nov 29 12:26:43 By "legal grounds" do you mean the endless foul swamp? Nov 29 12:26:55 apple doesn't mind suing people who are dumb enough to cross it and the law Nov 29 12:27:03 timeless_mbp: but they definitely picked the fight as they could have easily licensed the technology (3G essential patents) Nov 29 12:27:29 moo-_-: hrm, i must have missed that one Nov 29 12:27:35 moo-_-, it's more like if megatron and prime sat down for like 3 months worth of boring talks and then ended up forming an alliance against everyone else Nov 29 12:27:51 johnx: like... against humanity ;) Nov 29 12:27:52 i know nokia played w/ qualcomm (?) Nov 29 12:28:12 timeless_mbp: this http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/10/22/1541220/Nokia-Sues-Apple-For-Patent-Infringement-In-iPhone?from=rss Nov 29 12:28:13 I wonder if putting headphones in slowly will trick the fm transmitter :> Nov 29 12:28:25 moo-_-: oh, that Nov 29 12:28:42 * PaulFertser tried to change summary to a more meaningful one. Hehe, failed, not enough bugzilla powers :) Nov 29 12:29:04 PaulFertser: if you promise to play nice, i'll upgrade you Nov 29 12:29:11 but no name calling, and don't make me regret it Nov 29 12:29:17 if you make me regret it, i'll terminate your account Nov 29 12:29:28 soooo, if it's a bug that potentially causes an FCC violation in transmit power: how quickly can that be fixed? Nov 29 12:29:50 johnx: let's find out or abuse it? Nov 29 12:29:51 :P Nov 29 12:30:07 when going to apps the 'more' lols me Nov 29 12:30:26 only pagination functionality w/ only a '2nd page' in the entire os Nov 29 12:30:38 Stskeeps, no one is going to overpower my fm transmitter now. they can listen to *my* music if they want :D Nov 29 12:30:48 asidjazz: not true Nov 29 12:30:51 * qwerty12_N900 wants to make a daemon sending fake D-Bus signals so he can hexedit fmtxd... Nov 29 12:30:54 NOT TRUE Nov 29 12:30:55 we have advanced boxes in 5+ places Nov 29 12:31:00 timeless_mbp: thanks for the offer, but i'm afraid i'm not ready for _that_ kind of responsibility. Too immature, you know. Nov 29 12:31:02 thats not pagination Nov 29 12:31:09 thats iq seperation :) Nov 29 12:31:20 the more thing is a sad joke Nov 29 12:31:20 this is just the only place normal people see it Nov 29 12:31:26 I believe I'm obligated to add to this bug report :) Nov 29 12:31:48 PaulFertser, sorry, do you have the bug # on hand? Nov 29 12:31:52 it is like saying "we were too busy (or lazy) to make a proper application selector" Nov 29 12:31:59 johnx: sure, 6360 Nov 29 12:32:02 RST38h: nah Nov 29 12:32:05 bug 6360 Nov 29 12:32:06 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360 Headset problems Nov 29 12:32:06 lol RST38h Nov 29 12:32:12 it's more like "we tried this for the 770/n800/n810" Nov 29 12:32:16 "it didn't work" Nov 29 12:32:18 "we give up" Nov 29 12:32:19 much obliged RST38h Nov 29 12:32:30 Does anyone know how can I compile a new kernel module for maemo? Nov 29 12:32:34 "people can use the home screen to build their own app selector instead" Nov 29 12:32:48 you might as well replaced 'advanced' w/ 'nerd' Nov 29 12:32:52 NERD STUFF Nov 29 12:33:22 johnx: while you're at it, please change the summary to "N900 headset (Nokia WH-205) not recognised by N900" or something. Nov 29 12:33:26 well that's weird. now my detection is screwed up I think :/ Nov 29 12:33:34 * RST38h can think of a few ways to do this propely Nov 29 12:33:42 PaulFertser, it's all headsets, AFAICT Nov 29 12:33:43 yannj: 'kernel' debian source package, go nuts Nov 29 12:33:44 :P Nov 29 12:33:56 And for those lacking imagination, Finnish forests are home to 250+ kinds of mushrooms Nov 29 12:33:59 timeless how does this channel not drive you nuts Nov 29 12:34:11 asidjazz: i usually don't watch it Nov 29 12:34:18 and usually it's tame Nov 29 12:34:20 johnx: the detection routine is really tricky, it turns BIAS power on/off, measures voltages, tries ECI communication etc. I'd not made such a bold claim. Nov 29 12:34:21 * lbt points Jaffa at http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/ Nov 29 12:34:37 PaulFertser: been testing the headsets... there magic in there, because the tv out cable triggers the gpio 177 but not the icon... Nov 29 12:34:39 this should be #maemoRADbutlemmetellyouwhereyourewrong Nov 29 12:34:43 ali1234: indeed. Nov 29 12:35:01 PaulFertser, then I'll spend another 10 minutes and tell you if I can reproduce it on $15 stereo headphones :) Nov 29 12:35:28 ali1234: but without understanding of where and how ECI0 and ECI1 connected i can't explain much. Nov 29 12:35:28 Stskeeps : I followed the kernel documentation, I compiled the module on my computer in the SDK, I wonder if I can just drop the module on my device Nov 29 12:35:57 yannj: sure, remember depmod though Nov 29 12:36:11 PaulFertser, alright. turns out I didn't neat 15 minutes :) Nov 29 12:36:12 * timeless_mbp grumbles Nov 29 12:36:26 * timeless_mbp runs out of disk space again Nov 29 12:36:32 Stskeeps: can i remove languages? Nov 29 12:36:34 I can reproduce mis-detection 80%+ of the time on anything with a 3.5mm audio jack Nov 29 12:36:36 hi! I have little problem with checking-neon(arm float)-support configure script Nov 29 12:36:41 need more datas Nov 29 12:36:52 yannj: sometimes compiling modules makes it necessary to update the kernel image too, but you'll know exactly if it's the case when you try to modprobe it. Nov 29 12:36:56 current pixman's check passes on arm5tel, ehich is wrong Nov 29 12:37:02 * timeless_mbp frowns Nov 29 12:37:04 s/neat/need/ <- yeah, dunno about that Nov 29 12:37:11 do i want to know why my mer has python2.5 and python2.6? Nov 29 12:37:18 Does anybody know correct example for checking neon-support? Nov 29 12:37:32 ok Nov 29 12:37:35 the sdk finally finished Nov 29 12:37:43 PaulFertser : I am compiling the ppp and ppp_mppe kernel module to port PPTP_client Nov 29 12:37:54 max_posedon: read a sysfs file Nov 29 12:37:56 timeless_mbp: localepurge Nov 29 12:37:58 * johnx reboots to make sure his detection didn't get screwed up at some point Nov 29 12:38:28 woohoo Nov 29 12:38:30 zenity built Nov 29 12:39:08 PaulFertser, can you find anyplace that looks timing sensitive? like say, if one or two rings (pins?) were in contact, but others weren't Nov 29 12:39:14 RST38h, 1. which one and how? I don't have any cpu with neon. 2. I don't think that such check looks good Nov 29 12:39:17 * RST38h unsubscribes from the silly red-pill thread Nov 29 12:39:36 more silly than the "maemo5 emulator" probably... Nov 29 12:39:52 johnx: yes... Nov 29 12:39:56 on my n900, pressing Space or Shift+Space in the browser doesn't page down/up by the right amount. is this a known bug? Nov 29 12:40:28 johnx: assuming n810 is close to n900 i think i can try to understand the eci pins... Nov 29 12:40:43 where is maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh Nov 29 12:41:03 PaulFertser, sorry, maybe I wasn't clear: I can reproduce this problem on *any* audio equipment that plugs into an N900 with a 3.5mm plug Nov 29 12:41:12 I just did it with normal $15 stereo headphones Nov 29 12:41:31 qwerty12: are xparents numbers? Nov 29 12:41:35 another question : where can I find the source for libcityinfo ? Nov 29 12:41:39 johnx: yes, probably it got detected as an "open cable". There's some delayed detection of those. Nov 29 12:41:52 ugh i didnt do the -u USER Nov 29 12:41:56 max_posedon: /proc/cpuinfo Nov 29 12:42:09 timeless_mbp: Yes: XIDs Nov 29 12:42:12 yannj: closed source Nov 29 12:42:16 yannj: closed Nov 29 12:42:24 yannj: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ Nov 29 12:42:27 yannj: (please make a very good argument on bugs.maemo.org why this is horribly stupid and the database should be closed instead) Nov 29 12:42:28 has all the open bits Nov 29 12:42:30 PaulFertser, should be a test for that. it shouldn't let me turn on the fm transmitter anyways Nov 29 12:42:31 johnx: and it's not exactly reproducing the reporter's issue since he's experiencing problems only with original headset, not with regular headphones (and i assume he plugs both with the same speed :) ) Nov 29 12:42:45 RST38h, sometimes we haven't /proc, I want correct check, that can gone upstream Nov 29 12:42:50 Stskeeps: it's nokia proprietary junk Nov 29 12:42:58 they claim copyright to putting Maine north of Floriday Nov 29 12:43:00 timeless_mbp: it's one of those apis that make no sense to have closed Nov 29 12:43:01 some code, that will fail compile time Nov 29 12:43:09 PaulFertser, it's pretty finicky. I have to concentrate to make it act up with my headphones, but it's quite easy to reproduce with my N810's headset Nov 29 12:43:13 fail compile time? Nov 29 12:43:13 like regular! configure.ac way Nov 29 12:43:18 Why it is easy Nov 29 12:43:22 Stskeeps: it'd be embarrassing if people could read the sources! Nov 29 12:43:27 __asm { neon_instruction; } Nov 29 12:43:27 PaulFertser, uhm. if I tell you that cat detect returns "1" does that help? Nov 29 12:43:30 yep, this is how configure works, isn't it? Nov 29 12:43:36 And you are instantly fucked up. Nov 29 12:43:51 timeless_mbp: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libcityinfo/cityinfo_8c.html Nov 29 12:44:04 yes, it is fairly embarassing already at that point Nov 29 12:44:05 :P Nov 29 12:44:22 Stskeeps: "osso" Nov 29 12:44:22 Stskeeps : I opened a bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6359 , I hoped to fix it by myself Nov 29 12:44:24 Bug 6359: Geolocation show the wrong country when more than one country code in cities database Nov 29 12:44:26 johnx: not really, i think it could probably help if you get the output of all the files in there after semi-plugging and fully plugging, and added them to the ticket so they do not get lost. Nov 29 12:44:38 PaulFertser, fair enough Nov 29 12:44:42 BTW, have to admit that SSH/SCP work like a charm in 42.11 firmware. No more disconnects. Or almost no disconnects. Nov 29 12:45:03 I thought you might have seen the return values in your kernel code spelunking Nov 29 12:45:43 yannj: ask if libcityinfo can be oss'ed so you can fix the bug :P Nov 29 12:45:58 Good luck with that... Nov 29 12:46:02 who might I ask?? Nov 29 12:46:18 yannj: make a bugs.maemo.org bug on it Nov 29 12:46:18 :P Nov 29 12:46:22 Hello Nov 29 12:46:25 yannj: anyway, i gave lardman a list of things to fix in city info Nov 29 12:46:29 someday i'll file bugs for them Nov 29 12:46:32 Nokia n900 hasn't been released yet? Nov 29 12:46:37 most of this can be fixed w/o sources Nov 29 12:46:44 LuciusMare: yes.. Nov 29 12:46:48 timeless_mbp: it was? Nov 29 12:46:59 you can buy it in normal stores.. Nov 29 12:47:03 phew Nov 29 12:47:09 timeless_mbp: i was scared for a minute Nov 29 12:47:17 you thought the world ended? Nov 29 12:47:21 Stskeeps : should I open a bug for "Please oss'ed libcityinfo " ? Nov 29 12:47:27 timeless_mbp: at one side,i saw yt videos like "first looks" Nov 29 12:47:28 HEL doesn't freeze over until january Nov 29 12:47:35 you have to wait for the pandora for that Nov 29 12:47:37 timeless_mbp: but at nokia.com there was PREORDER Nov 29 12:47:43 i am planning it for christmas Nov 29 12:47:47 i was freaked like hell Nov 29 12:47:52 yannj: right, and CC quim.gil@nokia.com and carsten.munk@gmail.com Nov 29 12:48:21 and so,there is also "preoder" at amazon...so where can i buy it? Nov 29 12:48:25 Stskeeps: Still noticed that your request for libsharingdialog has gone unanswered... Ah well, fuck 'em and I hope people steal Petrovich code to take advantage of libsharingdialog Nov 29 12:49:00 Stskeeps : ok... Whish me good luck Nov 29 12:49:27 "Petrovich code"? Nov 29 12:49:42 johnx: i'm not that fast in understanding kernel code to immediately diagnose this bug unfortunately and anyway the relevant info should be on bugtracker, i hope that some kernel dev in nokia will finally take care of that. Nov 29 12:49:47 Stskeeps: is the library really in the same package as the datafile? Nov 29 12:50:05 PaulFertser, sadly, I think the kernel might be "doing the right thing" and something higher up may be confused Nov 29 12:50:31 johnx: are the dmesg messages reasonable? Nov 29 12:50:59 timeless_mbp, I've mostly been reading /sys/devices/platform/nokia-av Nov 29 12:51:11 oh Nov 29 12:51:13 I was about to document what those files contain in different situations Nov 29 12:51:18 sounds good Nov 29 12:51:33 johnx: probably... detect returning "1" means HEADPHONES Nov 29 12:51:52 /* or line input cable or external mic */ Nov 29 12:51:57 PaulFertser, perfect. I can get detect to show one with headphones inserted and no icon and no sound routing Nov 29 12:52:59 johnx: detect calls detect() function everytime you read it. But the jack sense event is generated only when it returns 1 after being called after GPIO event it seems. Nov 29 12:53:31 qwerty12: ok, seems to work Nov 29 12:53:38 now i just need to figure out what to do about zenity Nov 29 12:53:52 anyways, I'll add some meat to this bug, then go to sleep :) Nov 29 12:53:59 * timeless_mbp considers trying to get advanced tools to work for rewriting po files Nov 29 12:54:01 what is zenity? Nov 29 12:54:09 Please vote if you can : https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6418 Nov 29 12:54:10 Bug 6418: Some bugs with Libcityinfo, please make it OpenSource Nov 29 12:54:11 asidjazz: a commandline dialog builder Nov 29 12:54:16 asidjazz, it lets you call a basic GUI from a script Nov 29 12:54:49 what for simplicity? Nov 29 12:54:57 for people who don't like compiling code Nov 29 12:54:58 timeless_mbp: You have upload rights, right? Try uploading the source from that folder I gave you. If it works, great; if it does not, I'll take a look Nov 29 12:55:11 qwerty12: since i've hacked it, i'd rather not right now Nov 29 12:55:15 so its a precompiled parameter fed dialog box? Nov 29 12:55:16 esp not from this place Nov 29 12:55:32 asidjazz: roughly, i suppose Nov 29 12:55:35 you feed it like params and display rules and it returns responses? Nov 29 12:55:40 timeless_mbp: Fair enough Nov 29 12:55:40 yep Nov 29 12:56:11 thtas like a step in teh direction of webos amirite Nov 29 12:56:25 well... Nov 29 12:56:27 maemotml? :) Nov 29 12:56:39 since i usually write my guis in perl Nov 29 12:56:41 and webos is html Nov 29 12:56:45 it's mostly backwards Nov 29 12:57:12 but roughly, sometimes writing a gui using C/Gtk/Qt is stupid Nov 29 12:57:20 all you do is waste time making bad uis Nov 29 12:57:36 instead you can have bad GUIs instantly! Nov 29 12:57:40 timeless_mbp: most of the time writing gui in C is stupid :) Nov 29 12:57:49 since i'm basically a hacker, my goal is to provide the features to a user Nov 29 12:57:53 exactly timeless_mbp Nov 29 12:57:58 such that someone else can fix the ui later Nov 29 12:58:03 by e.g. improving zenity Nov 29 12:58:04 i do agree w/ moo-_- though Nov 29 12:58:08 i tis Nov 29 12:58:10 someone=qwerty12 fwiw Nov 29 12:58:22 timeless_mbp: real hackers don't document their code or have polished end user experience Nov 29 12:58:23 moo-_-: you know of an exception? :) Nov 29 12:58:28 yeah, I like that Nov 29 12:58:32 REAL HACKERS Nov 29 12:58:41 (to gui in C) Nov 29 12:58:45 and who needs these users in the first place? :) Nov 29 12:58:48 AKA IM TOO IMPORTANT Nov 29 12:58:49 real hackers don't need users Nov 29 12:59:04 my users should never use my GUI anyway Nov 29 12:59:20 it's just there for the annoying people who need to file bugs w/ original strings and don't want to uninstall my package to do it Nov 29 12:59:30 Is it possible to quickly turn a OSX .wdgt Widget into something I can plonk on my n900's desktop? Nov 29 13:00:07 timeless_mbp: I know one exception, at least. these guys are senior real hackers and they make tough statements about their code: http://bfg.repoze.org/ Nov 29 13:00:29 100% unit tested, no undcoumented code Nov 29 13:00:42 AKA FIGURE IT OUT Nov 29 13:01:02 Oli``: so.. Nov 29 13:01:03 http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Get_started_with_Maemo_5/ tells me to install maemo-qt4-env ,but I cannot find it. What repo is it in? Nov 29 13:01:11 for most definitions of "quickly" i guess "no" Nov 29 13:01:32 Lynoure: I think the instructions are outdated Nov 29 13:01:33 Oli``: ... there was a package for diablo which would convert a .wdgt into something that could maybe work Nov 29 13:01:40 Oli``: but afaik we never shipped it Nov 29 13:01:48 and maemo-qt4-env is something coming with nokia dev env installer Nov 29 13:02:08 moo-_-: that I used, so I guess I should be fine. Nov 29 13:02:20 moo-_-: thanks. Nov 29 13:02:24 n810 lacks ECI support, no chance to understand it fully looking at n810 info... Nov 29 13:03:33 hrm Nov 29 13:03:43 my mer x session died Nov 29 13:03:56 "oops" :) Nov 29 13:09:08 * timeless_mbp frowns Nov 29 13:09:12 what the heck? Nov 29 13:09:43 installation successful Nov 29 13:09:45 im scaread to touch it Nov 29 13:09:48 oh, ouch Nov 29 13:10:02 um, why can't i run my ARM library on my INTEL vm? :) Nov 29 13:10:07 * timeless_mbp goes to kick the packaging Nov 29 13:10:12 asidjazz, take a snapshot Nov 29 13:10:46 good idea Nov 29 13:10:58 ouch Nov 29 13:11:01 so um, this sucks Nov 29 13:11:03 um... Nov 29 13:11:13 so... can someone explain how .install files work? :) Nov 29 13:11:13 RST38h: Did Nokia/the council email you before taking stuff down from Extras? Nov 29 13:13:29 timeless_mbp: http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/install-devel.html Nov 29 13:13:43 qwerty12: wrong .install Nov 29 13:13:50 i mean debian/install or debian/{package}.install Nov 29 13:14:14 Ah. man dh_install? =) Nov 29 13:15:50 looks like i need to hack Makefile and change .install Nov 29 13:16:01 Makefile=debian/rules Nov 29 13:16:14 Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=398984&postcount=59 Nov 29 13:19:25 Stskeeps: ta Nov 29 13:20:32 could have been handled much more insanely Nov 29 13:20:37 when i run a simple script like so... Nov 29 13:20:42 sorry... Nov 29 13:21:01 im having issues running my the python script on n900 Nov 29 13:21:07 says permission denied. Nov 29 13:21:27 but in the scratchbox when i run the same script it works fine... Nov 29 13:21:38 could any one please help me... Nov 29 13:22:50 wrapster, is python installed? is the script executable? is it pointing to the right python executable? Nov 29 13:23:07 *is the script on a vfat partition?* Nov 29 13:23:33 johnx: python is isntallled, right executable as in? Nov 29 13:23:38 could you tell me the path.. Nov 29 13:23:46 which python Nov 29 13:23:51 on scratchbox its /scratchbox/tools/bin/python Nov 29 13:24:00 so thats where it was pointing to. Nov 29 13:24:00 (literally, type that at your console on the device) Nov 29 13:24:18 PaulFertser: Hi :-) Nov 29 13:24:23 ok. Nov 29 13:24:29 the other thing. if you copied it to the device with usb, it's on a part of the card that's FAT32 and can't be executed Nov 29 13:25:26 DocScrutinizer: Hey :D Nov 29 13:26:11 wow, that was weird. my n900 just started making a noise like a geiger-counter in a hot zone, after i upgraded omweather with app man. Nov 29 13:26:32 It's a trap Nov 29 13:26:46 changelog: enabled geiger counter to find hot zones around your house Nov 29 13:27:04 lol Nov 29 13:28:35 all seems normal after a reboot, which i was planning on doing anyway, as IIRC omweather always wanted one Nov 29 13:28:51 * timeless_mbp frowns Nov 29 13:28:52 wtf Nov 29 13:30:06 johnx: yeah thats more likely to have happend... Nov 29 13:30:23 ok, why does dpkg-genchanges care about previous versions of my package? Nov 29 13:30:28 johnx: i dont have the phone.. im writing scripts and giving it to my friend she owns one Nov 29 13:30:43 johnx: could you please tell me a step by step approach to get it working? Nov 29 13:31:25 wrapster, aaah. yeah, that would do it. you could tell her to run: python script.py Nov 29 13:31:44 actually. one sec Nov 29 13:31:47 ok Nov 29 13:31:54 DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS Nov 29 13:31:55 As indicated above, noopt will disable optimation. Nov 29 13:32:03 what is "optimation"? Nov 29 13:32:35 johnx: well she is not answering the call :( Nov 29 13:32:52 if she copies it over usb connected from a computer, it will be in /home/user/MyDocs Nov 29 13:32:55 wrapster: you're calling a girl? Nov 29 13:33:02 johnx: step wise approach please.. i'll go whack her on the head... Nov 29 13:33:20 timeless_mbp: well i dont own that phone now... so cant crib much. Nov 29 13:33:22 so if she starts X Terminal, tell her to type: python MyDocs/script.py Nov 29 13:33:32 johnx: ok Nov 29 13:34:49 johnx: chmod 755 script.py was what i had done on my machine .... do you think that has any effect when its running? Nov 29 13:34:54 johnx: on the phone Nov 29 13:35:33 remember #!/usr/bin/python in the top? Nov 29 13:35:56 #!/scratchbox/tools/bin/python is that correct? or should it be #!/usr/bin/python Nov 29 13:36:10 wrapster, basically, here's the thing. the N900 has three different "partitions" / is ubifs (with normal unix permissions), /home/user is ext3 (with unix permissions), /home/user/MyDocs is vfat (with no permissions) Nov 29 13:36:11 wrapster: real n900s don't have /scratchbox .. Nov 29 13:36:18 wrapster, the second one on the N900 Nov 29 13:37:17 johnx: so if its run on a vfat partition then the script wont run is it? Nov 29 13:37:50 you should be able to run it as "python script.py" but not as "./script.py" or "/path/to/script.py" Nov 29 13:38:23 if you run it as "python script.py" you don't need to worry about the #! line at the top either Nov 29 13:38:29 anyways, best of luck Nov 29 13:38:33 I need some sleep :) Nov 29 13:39:16 johnx: thanks for testing the headsets :) Nov 29 13:39:24 johnx: good night Nov 29 13:39:43 johnx: ok thaks .. good night Nov 29 13:40:03 * timeless_mbp sighs Nov 29 13:40:08 * timeless_mbp hates writing deb scripts Nov 29 13:43:05 hrm, is dh_install a verb? Nov 29 13:43:06 Hello again ! Nov 29 13:43:35 lardman|gone: hey, what's with the '=' dependency on pyqt ? Nov 29 13:44:01 Does anyone knows I 3G connection uses PPP? Nov 29 13:44:36 does the front small webcam on pre production summit device is defective ? Nov 29 13:44:45 Khertan_n900: you'd think so, yeah Nov 29 13:44:45 :P Nov 29 13:45:21 stskeeps seriously ? i m trying to use it ... but i got a strange result Nov 29 13:45:35 like really bad quality? Nov 29 13:47:25 really poor quallity Nov 29 13:47:27 gst-launch-0.10 v4l2src device=/dev/video1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! autovideosink Nov 29 13:47:52 I tryed with that Nov 29 13:48:12 and the quality is really really poor, but it's a 0,3Mpx cam. .... so Nov 29 13:48:43 and I have a strip on left side Nov 29 13:49:03 yannj: resolution has nothing to do with it Nov 29 13:49:12 hum ... gst-launch not found 2min Nov 29 13:49:31 yannj: the strip is a firmware issue, supposedly fixed in 43-* Nov 29 13:50:13 is 43 released? Nov 29 13:50:32 qwerty12: ping Nov 29 13:50:44 timeless_mbp: Pong Nov 29 13:51:18 yannj: not for the general public yet, afaik Nov 29 13:51:32 ok... Nov 29 13:52:07 too bad Nov 29 13:52:15 hum also with gst-launch i can see that the quality is like looking a vhs which was put in micro wave Nov 29 13:52:17 yannj: week numbers are mostly internal gunk Nov 29 13:52:29 just because a week exists doesn't mean it'll ever be released publicly Nov 29 13:52:43 the fact that we had both 41 and 42 is more of an anomaly than a pattern Nov 29 13:53:09 guys, the menu which comes up when clicking on the application name, what kind of menu is it, "framework" speaking? I'm coding something in Qt and I want to add a menu. But it isn't a simple menubar, is it? Nov 29 13:53:20 you means that there is week which which doesn t exist ... ? oh so my calendar is lying ? Nov 29 13:53:22 :) Nov 29 13:54:04 good morning Nov 29 13:54:16 Khertan_n900: most weeks don't exist Nov 29 13:54:20 and we don't publish calendars :) Nov 29 13:54:47 never said that there will be a 43, only that it's fixed there, there have been sighting of newer ones :) Nov 29 13:55:09 so i should add a bugs in maeno.org as it display all weeks in the fremantle calendar apps Nov 29 13:56:20 it s look like that preproduction have a bad camera but is it hw or sw ? Nov 29 13:56:37 Khertan_n900: how do you mean? Nov 29 13:56:43 Khertan_n900: probably not calibrated well Nov 29 13:56:49 hi Nov 29 13:57:15 someone have info about sync contact from N900 tu Ubuntu ? Nov 29 13:57:23 oh i ve just putting light up in the room and now it s far away better Nov 29 13:57:26 :) Nov 29 13:58:53 Khertan_n900: it's just as crappy on production models according to feedback Nov 29 13:59:23 Shapeshifter: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon#Hildon_menus Nov 29 13:59:40 Khertan_n900: I joing came in and caught your last comment about production models .. of what do you speak? Nov 29 14:00:35 it s a pre production i have Nov 29 14:01:06 sgbirch: the forward-facing webcam Nov 29 14:01:15 ahhh .. ok thanks Nov 29 14:01:48 Is there a VirtualBox VM which has the maemo dev tools preinstalled? Nov 29 14:04:17 sgbirch: for maemo4? yes Nov 29 14:04:26 not 5? Nov 29 14:04:35 dunno Nov 29 14:04:40 the thing i found was maemo4 :( Nov 29 14:07:49 to run a few system cmds.. i ran os.system('grep ') but os.system does not work Nov 29 14:08:04 can anyone please tell me if the API is supported on n900 Nov 29 14:08:23 or how do i get such calls working via a python script? Nov 29 14:10:11 heya javispedro Nov 29 14:10:25 hello all Nov 29 14:10:33 Morning, javispedro Nov 29 14:11:08 * javispedro glances at the mirrors appearing.. Nov 29 14:11:21 I'd prefer nothing to appear for now Nov 29 14:11:52 (damn, can't they want for a few days? the worst part is that some of the people pming don't even have the n900 but are already asking for mirror!) Nov 29 14:12:03 javispedro: I already expressed my opinion in that thread Nov 29 14:12:20 javispedro: Welcome to the all-new Talk :) Nov 29 14:12:29 wrapster: it works, what's the third param on grep ? Nov 29 14:12:37 javispedro: Basically, I am greatly inclined to start charging $19.99 for a copy simply to filter out all the freeloaders Nov 29 14:12:57 javispedro: in case of rapidshare you might be able to point to the non-commercial clause in the license Nov 29 14:13:00 wrapster: if you want io with what you call, use the subprocess module Nov 29 14:13:15 os.system("top -n 1 -b > process_output.log") ; os.system("sed -n '7,$p' process_output.log > full_info.log") Nov 29 14:13:26 these are some of the os.system usage i am doing... Nov 29 14:13:47 but none of the os.system lines work... could any one please test it out and tell me how to get it working.. pls. Nov 29 14:13:53 Mirrors appearing now is nearly _accepting_ that they will never be on extras again. I personally prefer to wait for the official NO then I point them to the mirror on my site (which has been online since the dawn of time and noone seems to have realized) Nov 29 14:13:58 What?! Freeloaders in open source? Nov 29 14:14:01 Say it ain't so. Nov 29 14:14:08 javispedro: You don't even wanna know some of the PMs I've gotten. Nov 29 14:14:11 achipa_irssi: subprocess modules? Nov 29 14:14:13 derf: None of my stuff is open source. Nov 29 14:14:16 achipa_irssi: could you please explain? Nov 29 14:14:25 RST38h: Oh really? Nov 29 14:14:43 javispedro: Hate mail from people thinking that I took down your packages so they can't play their free gamez anymore. Nov 29 14:14:44 Then you _should_ charge for it. Nov 29 14:14:51 derf: Ok, ColEm and fMSX are, but you can probably guess that nobody is interested in these Nov 29 14:14:53 zerojay: O_o Nov 29 14:15:02 derf: That is my thought exactly :( Nov 29 14:15:03 wrapster: that should work, but watch out for busybox Nov 29 14:15:08 zerojay: you evil conspirator, take off your copyright czar hat! Nov 29 14:15:16 RST38h: I was actually surprised you didn't start charging for the initial Maemo ports, actually. Nov 29 14:15:23 achipa_irssi: didnt understand Nov 29 14:15:24 lol Nov 29 14:15:24 derf: And not even because I am some greedy capitalist pig (which I obviously am :)) Nov 29 14:15:27 * Stskeeps gives zerojay the power to electrocute people over the interneet Nov 29 14:16:00 RST38h: Charging for them on Maemo 4 would make no sense whatsoever, but Maemo 5's a whole new game Nov 29 14:16:00 -e Nov 29 14:16:00 LOOK AT THEM Nov 29 14:16:00 wrapster: some top/sed/whatever stuff coukld be missing Nov 29 14:16:00 wrapster: run the command from console Nov 29 14:16:00 achipa_irssi: ok Nov 29 14:16:00 zerojay: Well, the user base is small and they do not come to me asking to hold their hands, so no time spent on support Nov 29 14:16:03 zerojay: In a situation like that, why would I care to charge money? Nov 29 14:16:17 I had people arguing that the first amendment to the US constitution gives them the right to your packages... lol Nov 29 14:16:35 *facepalm* Nov 29 14:16:40 snicker* Nov 29 14:16:43 * Nov 29 14:16:46 RST38h: Good stuff. I remember how you used to catch a lot of shit for charging for emulators in the past. Nov 29 14:16:51 It always surprises me how many people appear to not have actually _read_ the first amendment. Nov 29 14:17:01 * pupnik wants to see javispedro on television Nov 29 14:17:01 what? NOBODY reads anything Nov 29 14:17:04 Bah, reading. Nov 29 14:17:07 zerojay: Well, the situation with the Windows version was exactly that Nov 29 14:17:10 :P Nov 29 14:17:10 derf: It always surprises me that they know how to type. Nov 29 14:17:21 RST38h: Yeah, I remember the uproar back in the day, actually. Nov 29 14:17:31 so now we have the communist cabal and we have the "THOSE WHO TOOK OUR PACKAGES AWAY" cabal? Nov 29 14:17:33 zerojay: When you start getting 20 emails a day written in broken capitalized English, you start wondering Nov 29 14:17:44 http://www.egscomics.com/?date=2002-06-24 Nov 29 14:17:44 RST38h: Haha... yeah, I can imagine. Nov 29 14:17:57 zerojay: And end up charging for access. Which instantly fixes things. Nov 29 14:18:17 Stskeeps: Yes, you see I'm the M. Bison of the Maemo world apparently. I'm keeping your red pillz away and kicking your gamez off my system. Nov 29 14:18:24 javispedro: prefer to wait for the official NO then I point them to the mirror on my site << this is the proper thing to do Nov 29 14:18:36 zerojay: Because you can now legally and ethically tell to whoever has not paid for it to FUCK OFF. Nov 29 14:18:42 pupnik: appearing on TV... for having doing nothing? I would have to live with the guilt of having freeloaded from the actual emulator authors. Nov 29 14:19:00 i just think it's funny Nov 29 14:19:02 RST38h: Makes sense to me. I remember seeing all the people publically bitching. Nov 29 14:19:02 :) Nov 29 14:19:22 and the nicest port from gp2x land so far Nov 29 14:19:23 To say nothing of the original _game_ authors. Nov 29 14:19:37 Ah, the Horror, the Suffering... Nov 29 14:19:39 game? I only play elevator madness with this. Nov 29 14:19:47 Right. Nov 29 14:19:55 i really loved that Nov 29 14:20:05 the cheesy spies Nov 29 14:20:17 derf: Original game authors use iNES to play their old games =) Nov 29 14:20:36 * RST38h has got a few emails stashed somewhere to prove that Nov 29 14:21:37 the little nokia power adaptor CA-148C (Make In China) is squelling like a pig now Nov 29 14:21:53 * javispedro ponders how someone's reason for buying the n900 is retrograming even when I tried hard to make clear that the pandora would be better suited for that. Nov 29 14:22:15 RST38h: I don't think you have an emulator for what I've put out so far, so I can't say the same thing. :/ Nov 29 14:22:21 RST38h, you removed your iNES package from extras-devel? Nov 29 14:22:34 javispedro: The Pandora exists? Nov 29 14:22:53 qwerty12_N900: since NOBODY who pm'd for mirrors has a N900, does that matter? Nov 29 14:22:53 zerojay: Just wait for another 20 years :) Nov 29 14:22:55 RST38h: DS and Wii shit. :) Nov 29 14:22:57 haha. Nov 29 14:23:07 zerojay: could make the most evil package, a package that generates wallpapers based on random runs of the nes emulators! Nov 29 14:23:20 javispedro: Haha, fair point Nov 29 14:23:20 javispedro: We are not talking retrogaming here Nov 29 14:23:20 lol Nov 29 14:23:35 odin_, and melting? Nov 29 14:23:45 javispedro: I can bet that 90% of posters in those threads are not even 20 years old yet Nov 29 14:23:57 Hi, how can I file a bug against the gcc wrappers? I found a small testcase that shows the dependencies are not correctly generated with -M flags Nov 29 14:24:05 Quibus: in scratchbox? Nov 29 14:24:05 javispedro: So, all they want is some free games, mostly GBA games because these are most recent Nov 29 14:24:06 ShadowJK_, no not melting... just distracting Nov 29 14:24:09 RST38h: there is a 13 year old making a lot of noise at least. Nov 29 14:24:10 Quibus: hope it's working in sb2. Nov 29 14:24:10 :P Nov 29 14:24:11 Stskeeps: yes Nov 29 14:24:19 javispedro: exactly Nov 29 14:24:30 odin_, all my nokia chargers (though I haven't tried the one with N900 yet) squeal :) Nov 29 14:24:35 RST38h: I take offence to that :( Nov 29 14:24:47 the CA-148C has been known to go into meltdown though Nov 29 14:24:50 E.g. in Linux, this command line: g++ -MP -MMD -MF hello.d -o sub/hello.o -c sub/hello.cc gives this output: sub/hello.o: sub/hello.cc Nov 29 14:25:00 but in scratchbox you get: hello.o: sub/hello.cc Nov 29 14:25:01 qwerty: Hey, you are a freak, as far as teenagers go =) Nov 29 14:25:14 qwerty: NOT typical :) Nov 29 14:25:17 this kills dependency checking on openMSX's build system Nov 29 14:25:29 ShadowJK_, the plugin part is below the desk, this adaptor thing is just 2 inchs from phone, but why is squeel its doing something with the power? protecting the phone maybe from stupidity Nov 29 14:25:29 * javispedro notes the irony Nov 29 14:25:30 Hehe Nov 29 14:26:04 I don't really see the desire to have emulators on the N900 honestly. I don't really find them very playable. Nov 29 14:26:15 depends on the game Nov 29 14:26:28 Stskeeps: um, so can I put this someone so that developers can work on this bug? Nov 29 14:26:31 yeah... give us XBox emulation :) Nov 29 14:26:31 If they ran better and we had more input options aside from the laggy wiimote.. okay, makes much more sense. Nov 29 14:26:34 besides, I will play Goonies on *anything* Nov 29 14:26:35 s/someone/somewhere Nov 29 14:26:42 Quibus: bugs.maemo.org but i wouldn't expect it to get fixed :/ Nov 29 14:26:49 Stskeeps: why not? Nov 29 14:26:50 I set up my PS3 for emulators with a nice frontend and everything. Nov 29 14:26:50 Because: a) people have time to waste and b) they only want to carry one device with them. Nov 29 14:27:07 odin_, it's probably a step-down buck regulator in there, taking the voltage down from the 6.X volts of the old nokia charger to 5.0V for USB Nov 29 14:27:16 Quibus: Harmattan is moving on to SB2 and anyone who had a clue regarding Scratchbox1 is in the loonie bin by now Nov 29 14:27:27 Got video previews and everything. Nov 29 14:27:29 Pretty nice. Nov 29 14:27:30 :'( Nov 29 14:27:34 * RST38h cackles approvingly Nov 29 14:27:35 Stskeeps: so, sb1 is a messy mess? :-) Nov 29 14:27:46 some really really cool work by claesbas: http://castus.dnsalias.com:8080/share/mer_bootvideo_800x480_mstrcomp_draft1.avi Nov 29 14:28:00 zerojay: Depends on what system you are talking about. N900 is pretty good on emulating 8bit hw Nov 29 14:28:10 Wow. SB2 and Qt. Harmattan FTW! /s Nov 29 14:28:11 zerojay: And even 16bit hw, most of the time Nov 29 14:28:31 zerojay: GBA stuff is sluggish, but that was to be expected. It is no real GBA Nov 29 14:28:58 Stskeeps: which product to pick? Nov 29 14:29:18 achipa_irssi: so instead of using os.system(" ") you recommend using os.popen("something > file") ; a = file.readlines(); Nov 29 14:29:33 achipa_irssi: which would be a safe bet? Nov 29 14:29:39 ah, development platform, presumable Nov 29 14:29:41 y Nov 29 14:29:47 yet another red pill thread. Nov 29 14:30:10 Stskeeps: so, can I test with sb2? Nov 29 14:30:13 javispedro: I feel like it is time for an exodus Nov 29 14:30:17 Quibus: maemo sdk+ and see Nov 29 14:30:51 Stskeeps: ? Nov 29 14:31:23 RST38h: I don't know... I get a very stuttery 20-30fps out of iNES at best. Nov 29 14:31:41 zerojay: I always get 59-60fps on N900 Nov 29 14:31:59 Quibus: Note that the autobuilder for extras-devel (community repository; 1st of a 3-step process of getting things into Extras which is a repository that comes with the N900 by default) uses SB1 Nov 29 14:32:06 zerojay: Yea, it is set to draw 35% frames, but this only contributes to slight jitter Nov 29 14:33:03 "Download 2012 and New Moon on[...]". Delete. Nov 29 14:33:32 javispedro: Should we simply create another Google group? Nov 29 14:34:05 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=399103 Nov 29 14:34:09 I had to do it. Nov 29 14:34:32 I had to thank you. Nov 29 14:34:39 qwerty12_N900: OK Nov 29 14:35:09 javispedro: Refresh the thread. lol Nov 29 14:35:43 Robot101: thanks Nov 29 14:35:58 javispedro: You forgot to make it red Nov 29 14:37:55 I forgot to dedicate it to certain people Nov 29 14:38:20 and make it flash Nov 29 14:38:42 in fact, it should be flashing red on purple Nov 29 14:39:53 I have to wonder how they associate being pull from the repo == released. Nov 29 14:40:06 *pulled. Nov 29 14:40:33 half of them probably does not understand what they are talking about. They came to the thread for those links. Nov 29 14:40:59 RST38h: and people give them links to rapidshare urls which host non-working or os2008 builds, and they orgasm all over the thread about it Nov 29 14:41:19 Y'know, there's gonna be a direct correlation between the debs posted in that thread and the usage of Red Pill going up Nov 29 14:41:24 when all they have to do IS FSCKING WAIT. Nov 29 14:41:46 a few days at most. Nov 29 14:42:31 tell them by sharing the stuff they might end up being party to a court case and make them piss their pants? :P Nov 29 14:42:53 it does not work, they feel safe behind their pseudonyms Nov 29 14:43:09 but why I am worrying? Nov 29 14:43:30 "We're logging your IPs. The NSA has been notified." Nov 29 14:43:30 Stskeeps: they are minors, so their parents will =) Nov 29 14:43:52 another pm Nov 29 14:43:54 10 bucks to the guy who posts as Czar@Nintendo Nov 29 14:44:18 :P Nov 29 14:45:33 ah, antivirus thread. Nov 29 14:45:36 I was missing it already. Nov 29 14:46:37 I remember when the "which antivirus" thread opened in the WristPDA (a PalmOS wristwatch) -- the idea of your wristwatch running an antivirus amused me to death. Nov 29 14:46:47 *WristPDA forum Nov 29 14:49:04 Bring back the crazy Polish guy!!! Nov 29 14:49:07 lol. Nov 29 14:49:15 I'm asking people to not mirror my package out of respect. Nov 29 14:49:24 I doubt anyone will listen to me anyways, but we'll see. Nov 29 14:49:24 RST38h: Darius? Nov 29 14:49:39 zerojay: but RST is right, for that you'd need big violet flashing letters Nov 29 14:49:55 or use your recently acquired remote-electrocution powers. Nov 29 14:50:53 qwerty: Yea Nov 29 14:50:54 Oh yes. Nov 29 14:51:21 Engadget seems to believe that with the conversations video Nokia was advertising they had their own suite of emulators. Nov 29 14:51:35 javispedro: you would need that power with cascade reaction to take 'em all out Nov 29 14:51:42 at least that's what I understand from their " with cascade reaction to take 'em all out" Nov 29 14:51:46 err... Nov 29 14:51:50 hehehehe Nov 29 14:51:53 at least that's what I understand from their "N900 emulatin' is still easy to come by from third parties -- check one out after the break." Nov 29 14:52:03 ah who cares Nov 29 14:52:54 well, if the "skimming" bloggers at engadget believe that, imagine what the "copyright czar" would believe. Nov 29 14:53:07 Meanwhile in Switzerland: Voters in a referendum on Sunday voted in favour of imposing a blanket ban on the building of minarets in Switzerland, Nov 29 14:53:11 hEY guyZ! i HERD i CAN EMULATE N900 ON MY GAMEBOY! Nov 29 14:53:16 :) Nov 29 14:53:24 lol Nov 29 14:53:34 RST38h: I have no idea what a minaret is, but it sounds dangerous and communist! Nov 29 14:53:44 btw Nov 29 14:53:53 zerojay: it is muslim. muslim is the new communist. Nov 29 14:53:58 RST38h rm_you: feature request for packrat: parsing Pre-Depends ;) Nov 29 14:54:00 lol.. jk, but I really don't know what a minaret is. Nov 29 14:54:09 javispedro: isn't it done already? Nov 29 14:54:10 zerojay: i seem to remember they're involved with Spirals :P Nov 29 14:54:14 * RST38h seems to remember doing it Nov 29 14:54:22 zerojay: It is the spire of a mosque. Nov 29 14:54:25 :P Nov 29 14:54:46 RST38h: it only shows "Depends" here (package openttd has openttd-data in pre-depends) Nov 29 14:54:52 * rm_you briefly recalls something about a Spiral Minaret from some old mario game or other. Nov 29 14:54:55 ah Nov 29 14:55:07 will look at it later Nov 29 14:55:13 gotta drive home now (5-7 hours) Nov 29 14:55:18 bbl :P Nov 29 14:55:21 Wave. Nov 29 14:55:27 thanks, bye! Nov 29 14:55:38 or should I've said khtxbye Nov 29 14:56:03 that is shorter Nov 29 14:56:05 javispedro: It's OK, we're not on Talk Nov 29 14:56:43 I should write an Ovi store app that blocks all known maemo viruses. Nov 29 14:57:11 pupnik: sounds easy Nov 29 14:57:11 pupnik: And one for freedom advocates, that unblocks them. Nov 29 14:57:19 haha Nov 29 14:57:24 * javispedro watches latest post and screams the Wilhelm Scream Nov 29 14:57:39 operator of computer decides what to run. is hacker way. Nov 29 14:57:57 pupnik: Well - yes... Nov 29 14:58:05 pupnik: But - look at the botnet cloud. Nov 29 14:58:19 Operator of computer works fine for people with a clue. Nov 29 14:58:40 pupnik: int main(int argc, char** argv){gtk_init(&argc, argv); hildon_banner_show_information(NULL, NULL, "Your N900 is protected, have a good day!"); gtk_main(); return 0}? Nov 29 14:59:20 Especially if maemo takes off, and you have a million 12 year olds with no clue using it, 'operator of computer' doesn't work so well - especially when there is no vetting of applications. Nov 29 14:59:38 you're missing the "if (rand() > THRESHOLD) { "Your N900 has a virus! Please buy our extended antivirus program for $99.99 Nov 29 14:59:42 " }" Nov 29 15:00:06 * Stskeeps starts making a hit list based on the people who voted yes on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35385 Nov 29 15:00:12 bah qwerty12_N900 open-sourced it before i could patent! Nov 29 15:00:28 Whoops :\ Nov 29 15:00:33 lol it is a non anonymous poll! Nov 29 15:00:51 Sts: JoinDate>=10/1/2009 works Nov 29 15:01:50 Who's gonna be the first to put "I am rich" on the Ovi store? Nov 29 15:02:28 Apparently, Ovi Store is implemented in such a way that nobody can ever submit an app there and get it accepted Nov 29 15:02:47 heh, i am still waiting for the first people to get pissed, and implementing the Alternative Ovi Store Nov 29 15:02:51 So, my guess is that it will simply die after a year or two, like all the previous Nokia app stores Nov 29 15:02:52 it is 100% technically possible Nov 29 15:03:05 * RST38h can implement an alternative in a matter of a week Nov 29 15:03:07 If needed Nov 29 15:03:24 what does Ovi Store have that everybody is so interested in it? Nov 29 15:03:44 (and that the maemo.org/downloads page has not?) Nov 29 15:03:45 Nothing but hype Nov 29 15:03:48 javispedro: so far we don't know Nov 29 15:03:52 it isn't up for n900 yet is it? Nov 29 15:04:01 nope afaik Nov 29 15:04:06 the maemo.org/downloads page is Nov 29 15:04:08 Weakminded think that by being endorsed by Nokia Ovi Store becomes "special" Nov 29 15:05:23 * javispedro is tempted to post in antivirus thread... I'm still too young to have learned from the experience Nov 29 15:05:55 javispedro: I wish Reggie would've given him a perm. ban... Nov 29 15:06:35 javispedro: antivirus software for the N900. That should sell well to ppl coming from Windows :-) Nov 29 15:08:06 * RST38h suggested spamming tmo with otherworldly news and rumors before Nov 29 15:08:13 cmon, cmon Nov 29 15:08:23 just a few seconds ant the emulators thread will vanish from the active topics list! Nov 29 15:08:24 Just to drive these lemmings completely mad Nov 29 15:08:30 yeah! Nov 29 15:08:51 "Nokia stops N900 production, skips straight to Harmattan devices next year" Nov 29 15:08:52 vanished! bring in the champagne Nov 29 15:09:07 javispedro: Until it gets bumped with new links for mirrors :) Nov 29 15:09:18 but chances are much lower now :) Nov 29 15:09:20 RST38h: i'm not entirely sure if that's fake or not :P Nov 29 15:09:55 Stskeeps: That is the key: the news should not look fake Nov 29 15:10:24 "N900 keyboard shown to cause capral tunnerl syndrome in iPhone users" Nov 29 15:10:55 "Maemo to run on existing Symbian phones by May 2010" Nov 29 15:11:00 I like that one Nov 29 15:11:13 Of couse you do, that is the second hint ;) Nov 29 15:11:22 bonus links if we manage to get a .zip file with garbage in a .nokia.com subdomain Nov 29 15:11:22 does the n900 support AWS Nov 29 15:11:26 s/links/points Nov 29 15:11:29 Has to be at the edge of reality (1) and universally liked/disliked (#2) Nov 29 15:11:55 I mean I'd like to see how they would kill themselves for the "attached" file, I don't have a symbian phone =) Nov 29 15:12:40 RST38h: The virus-harbouring .sis file would have to be signed for the full effect Nov 29 15:14:24 does anyone have n900 here.. who is ready to do me a favor? please Nov 29 15:15:36 Wow, I see this style of post is catching on: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=399183&postcount=47 Nov 29 15:15:38 you see what happens in the new TMO? someone posts a good bootup video and the thread gets converted into a "how to install bootvideos" thread. Nov 29 15:16:08 qwerty12_N900: colours should be banned on tm Nov 29 15:16:08 o Nov 29 15:16:11 then, when we don't answer, Nov 29 15:16:16 qwerty: self-signed should be fine Nov 29 15:16:19 he starts up a new thread on how we all suck Nov 29 15:16:59 * RST38h thinks of responding "Please, fuck off already" then goes back to work Nov 29 15:17:06 Stskeeps: well, I filed the bug, I hope it's OK: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6420 Nov 29 15:17:08 Bug 6420: g++/gcc wrapper generating wrong deps Nov 29 15:17:18 right, thanks povbot :-) Nov 29 15:17:22 NOOOOOOOO emulators thread back. Nov 29 15:19:07 Oh shit, C code commented in Chinese... Nov 29 15:19:47 From docpurge: "Real hackers don't need docs." Nov 29 15:19:57 Quibus: looks right Nov 29 15:20:11 at least my Sonic wallpaper can't be pulled cause it's from Sega, so fffuuuu Nintendo :D Nov 29 15:20:23 wait until sega comes knocking... Nov 29 15:21:07 oh Nov 29 15:21:24 Nah, we need javispedro to port a Megadrive emulator, first, and for Nokia to release a video showing it being used with a downloaded Sonic ROM Nov 29 15:21:46 qwerty12_N900: I like the first part :D Nov 29 15:22:03 :) Nov 29 15:22:27 * javispedro still ponders why I am getting such amount of free publicity for nothing :) Nov 29 15:22:57 javispedro: it's all your fault! :) Nov 29 15:23:16 it is? they will banish me from maemo.org! :'( Nov 29 15:23:26 I will buy an archos TabletPC MWAHAHA Nov 29 15:23:45 That's like living a life of celibacy... Nov 29 15:23:51 javispedro: buy HD2, join my army :D Nov 29 15:23:58 Windows Mobile! never! Nov 29 15:24:10 qwerty12_N900: re: your awesome post up there. Maemo has arrived! Nov 29 15:24:36 Hehe Nov 29 15:24:44 If I were to buy a phone, I would buy the Palm Pre =) probably the palm virus still hiding in me :P Nov 29 15:24:57 javispedro: I bet it's gonna have android rom soon Nov 29 15:25:02 javispedro: do some application like mine ... for developpers ... and you ll not get no publicity :) Nov 29 15:25:38 ~seen fiferboy Nov 29 15:25:41 fiferboy was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 3h 15m 25s ago, saying: 'later all'. Nov 29 15:25:47 javispedro: Imagine what happened when I first released iNES... Nov 29 15:26:04 * Khertan don't know if he should do release his bittorrent ratio faker python scripts ... it could be popular ... but not good for bittorrent network :) Nov 29 15:26:17 RST38h: but you deserved it, you coded the entire emulator for scratch :) Nov 29 15:26:20 Khertan: Bad boy! Nov 29 15:26:22 s/for/from Nov 29 15:26:28 Khertan: I hit-and-run... Nov 29 15:26:58 qwerty12_N900: yeah i know ... but i can't upload all the day from my nit so i got a bad ratio :) Nov 29 15:27:12 javispedro: and he's made it with a single finger! without display! :D Nov 29 15:27:40 Khertan: Hehe... I once found this page full of hacked BitTorrent clients... It was bliss :) Nov 29 15:27:54 lol Nov 29 15:27:59 man, you're all evil Nov 29 15:28:00 javispedro: NOBODY deserves this Nov 29 15:28:17 javispedro: Not more than being suffocated by a swarm of fruit flies Nov 29 15:28:20 i just make a simple proxy ... the first time it was for fixing the pb with announing and kTorrent ... Nov 29 15:28:26 but in the same time :) Nov 29 15:28:33 i do some modification Nov 29 15:29:01 s Nov 29 15:29:37 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-5 <<< Still require some tester ... :) Nov 29 15:31:37 RST38h: http://foto.mail.ru/bk/kirik-ch/other/877.html :D Nov 29 15:32:08 wazd: and who are that? Nov 29 15:32:23 There's something wrong in that picture: I see no AK-47s Nov 29 15:32:28 qwerty12_N900: that guy in red tie won n900 :) Nov 29 15:32:28 wazd: Which one is the g0dzilla guy? Nov 29 15:32:46 wazd: Hehe Nov 29 15:32:50 i was asking my when we will got the first antivirus question on n900 ... : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=399121#post399121 Nov 29 15:33:01 Quibus: that's Moscow n900 meetup Nov 29 15:33:19 RST38h: dunno Nov 29 15:33:22 won a n900 doing what ? Nov 29 15:33:39 Khertan: accidentally :D Nov 29 15:33:45 lol Nov 29 15:33:47 Khertan: Standing in the crowd =) Nov 29 15:34:15 That was probably the only case knwon to me when such a prize went to a person who could actually make use of it Nov 29 15:34:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJxs3sHW3Bc - unknown marketing guy Nov 29 15:35:21 RST38h: haven't found us on photos btw :) Nov 29 15:35:56 good at hiding wazd ! Nov 29 15:36:09 wazd: should be good thing Nov 29 15:36:26 RST38h: yep :) Nov 29 15:36:50 lcuk: actually some jerk was shooting me very aggresively Nov 29 15:36:55 All nintendo emulator have been removed from extras repository ? Nov 29 15:37:10 wazd, you need your army training! Nov 29 15:37:10 Khertan: you too, my son? ;) Nov 29 15:38:36 hu ... it s just emulator ... doesn't use Nintendo materials ... i didn't understand Nov 29 15:39:21 yeah, they removed basically everything Nov 29 15:39:33 nintendo-related. Nov 29 15:40:41 this sucks ... as if i ve well understood the emulator on the wii was using some part of open sourced emulator Nov 29 15:41:03 well that you'll never know. Nov 29 15:41:53 * javispedro wonders what's this g0dzilla guy and if sending him a multipar rar file encrypted with both whatever .rar uses, gpg, and custom rijndael implementation will calm him down. Nov 29 15:42:00 yep i ven't reverse engined the wii emulator version ... so i couldn't be sure Nov 29 15:42:36 javispedro: I recommend RST38h/wazd shoot him with some Ketamine Nov 29 15:43:35 qwerty: You mean, he isn't on drugs already? Nov 29 15:43:35 who is g0dzilla ? Nov 29 15:43:46 some idiot Nov 29 15:43:54 TMO idiot :) Nov 29 15:44:09 went nuts over nintendo stuff being withdrawn Nov 29 15:44:10 RST38h: In that case, some more can't hurt! Nov 29 15:44:31 qwerty: AFAIK, they use aminazin in asylums Nov 29 15:44:39 if there a package of libfftw for Maemo5 somewhere? Nov 29 15:44:53 qwerty: To quickly stop psychotic behavior in patients Nov 29 15:45:04 qwerty: Got some nasty side effects though Nov 29 15:45:12 cvandonderen: seems not, but there was one for os2008. Nov 29 15:45:23 RST38h: Like curing the patient? Nov 29 15:45:25 javispedro: I know, so no updated version yet.... Nov 29 15:45:47 blegh Nov 29 15:45:57 does that take a long time to compile? Nov 29 15:45:59 qwerty12_N900: What a good idea! Nov 29 15:46:00 qwerty: mental patients generally can't be cured, only "socially adapted" =) Nov 29 15:46:16 * SpeedEvil gets out his big barrel marked 'bacon cure, extra dry'. Nov 29 15:46:30 who's that g0dzilla guy? :) Nov 29 15:46:36 qwerty: But yeah, that is what they achieve with medication - "socially adapt" the patient so that he does not go onto rampage, as long as he takes the medication Nov 29 15:46:48 does anyone know how to do this on the n900: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5357#c17 Nov 29 15:46:50 Bug 5357: Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *# Nov 29 15:47:00 qwerty: This one apparently missed a dose Nov 29 15:47:16 * qwerty12_N900 nods Nov 29 15:47:27 nnod: 5357 has apparently been fixed internally Nov 29 15:47:48 note that the side effects are : "inability to initiate movement and inability to remain motionless" Nov 29 15:48:00 * cvandonderen thinks: yes, I can update my settings again! (number starts with *#) Nov 29 15:48:04 RST38h: that's good, but i'd like to check my balance now... Nov 29 15:48:12 javis: yeah, sounds consistent with what witnesses reported Nov 29 15:48:30 nnod: You can use voice services, no need to do this with the special number Nov 29 15:48:48 RST38h: not true with all providers Nov 29 15:49:05 peruse the website then Nov 29 15:49:14 you have got the browser in that n900 Nov 29 15:49:22 RST38h: for some providers voices must be paid ... :) Nov 29 15:49:32 Khertan: Not here though =) Nov 29 15:49:48 yeah, well, Vodafone NL uses some codes which are only changeable by dialing a *# number, even customer care cannot do it Nov 29 15:49:50 * RST38h never even knew about *# codes to check balance Nov 29 15:49:52 well, does anyone know the address to the modem? /dev/ttyS?? Nov 29 15:49:58 RST38h: and information on website didn't work on n900 because require true wap browser :) Nov 29 15:50:01 here you have to pay for BOTH the *# number and the voice services number Nov 29 15:50:12 around 25 euro cents Nov 29 15:50:16 RST38h: For O2-UK, *# is the only way, AFAIK Nov 29 15:50:28 150 is free on T-Mobile UK Nov 29 15:50:44 Khertan: It is all very disturbing, I can't understand why it all works in Russia but never works in supposedly "civilized" western world =) Nov 29 15:50:50 Nov 29 15:51:03 Who explained to me that the reason info is so closely guarded here is because of the basic need geeks have to feel superior to others. And since the N900 is far more advanced than other devices it's a revenge of the nerds kinda thing. Nov 29 15:51:05 RST38h: noooo, they have spotted me :D Nov 29 15:51:08 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa Nov 29 15:51:14 haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa Nov 29 15:51:15 RST38h: http://foto.mail.ru/bk/kirik-ch/other/872.html Nov 29 15:51:18 RST38h: "civilized" in france means ... paid paid paid Nov 29 15:51:19 :) Nov 29 15:51:20 * javispedro ROFLs Nov 29 15:52:39 RST38h: damn, am I really that tall from the side? :) Nov 29 15:53:34 qwerty12_N900, your patch for fbreader, did you submit it to the fbreader devs Nov 29 15:53:45 so they can officially push it Nov 29 15:53:59 lcuk: What's the point? They aren't interested in doing anything, anyway Nov 29 15:54:19 is fbreader in the rpeoistory already? Nov 29 15:54:22 repository too Nov 29 15:54:38 * lcuk hit the keys in no defined order Nov 29 15:55:33 It's in extras-devel and it was not installable for the first few weeks because of missing libfribidi. And MishaS had no plans to upload that. It was only installable once mikkov had uploaded it Nov 29 15:55:34 javispedro, :D you likey my antivirus cleanup tool then :D Nov 29 15:55:34 lcuk: if the first letter and the last of words are at the right place ... it's not a problem :) Nov 29 15:55:48 lcuk: i liked your post, the first useful one of the day in tmo :) Nov 29 15:56:09 if people are concerned, play on those concerns :) Nov 29 15:56:15 lcuk: you make a fake one ? Nov 29 15:56:21 its not fake! Nov 29 15:56:25 i installed it fine Nov 29 15:56:30 and now i have a 14" dong Nov 29 15:56:50 lcuk: It has ".exe" on the end! Nov 29 15:56:56 yeah Nov 29 15:56:59 it works on maemo tho Nov 29 15:57:01 honest Nov 29 15:57:16 * lcuk actually did build binaries at first with .exe Nov 29 15:57:20 so i could tell the difference Nov 29 15:58:48 lcuk: url is incorrect Nov 29 15:59:07 http://applerejectedme.com/ :D Nov 29 15:59:13 it works at this end Nov 29 15:59:18 run a virus check before downloading Nov 29 15:59:24 you must already have a virus Nov 29 15:59:25 * javispedro goes to register http://maemo.org.rejectedme.com Nov 29 16:00:04 the post at the bottom of http://juick.com/Unatine/394204 shows how you can use dbus-send to call numbers with *#: dbus-send --system --dest=com.nokia.csd.Call --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/csd/call com.nokia.csd.Call.CreateWith string:"$1" uint32:0 Nov 29 16:00:12 yeah, nokia is the second apple :) Nov 29 16:00:13 it's meant to be in a bash script so $1 is the number to call Nov 29 16:00:19 * Khertan will register ... maemo.org.stillinextra-testing.com Nov 29 16:00:22 freedom, opencource, blah-blah :) Nov 29 16:00:30 opencoarce ;) Nov 29 16:00:40 as http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-5 is still in extras-testing ... <<--- require testers Nov 29 16:00:58 but it doesn't seem to work for my swiss sunrise prepaid sim Nov 29 16:02:43 I made an app that makes the iphone have crappy 3G, but since that duplicates functionality.ARM :D :D Nov 29 16:02:54 :D Nov 29 16:04:27 I made an app of Tic-Tac-Toe for the iphone. Apple sent me a letter saying it was too confusing for the average user. ARM. Nov 29 16:04:29 jeez :D Nov 29 16:04:44 nnod: which "service code" did you use? Nov 29 16:04:45 well Nov 29 16:04:53 it IS too confusing for the average iphone user ;) Nov 29 16:04:54 a letter? Nov 29 16:04:55 Wow. Nov 29 16:05:38 lorelei^: *121# Nov 29 16:06:09 lorelei^: it makes a voice call actually and the a recording says the number is not accessible Nov 29 16:06:30 nnod: ah..interesting...and with*21*# ? Nov 29 16:06:40 nnod: *121*# Nov 29 16:07:11 lorelei^: same recording Nov 29 16:07:42 nnod: (I don't have a n900 yet, but I have a prepaid swiss sunrise sim) Nov 29 16:08:22 perhaps com.nokia.csd.Call.CreateWith isn't the right method call Nov 29 16:08:39 hello again Nov 29 16:08:41 lorelei^: ok Nov 29 16:09:50 so am i the first with a cloned os w/ n900 ? :) Nov 29 16:11:45 is anyone else tunnelling with iodine over gprs? Nov 29 16:11:49 fuz_: nah, but i didnt publish mine Nov 29 16:11:57 mhh, for some reason, when I run my pyqt app in the SDK instead of on my laptop natively, the gui never shows up when I add this line: menubar = QtGui.QMenuBar(self) Nov 29 16:12:13 sts: you should have :) Nov 29 16:12:30 sts: mine is not fully working Nov 29 16:12:36 what's iodine? Nov 29 16:13:09 * timeless_mbp pokes Stskeeps Nov 29 16:13:10 sts: do you find it's slower than the original one ? Nov 29 16:13:10 nnod: are you currently in switzerland when doing the *121*# call? I don't think that it should matter (I'm guessing that *# service codes are transferred when roaming is in use, at least it did when I was in the US)...but who knows.. Nov 29 16:13:11 ShadowJK_: http://code.kryo.se/iodine/ Nov 29 16:13:28 lorelei^: yes i can use the number with my n70 Nov 29 16:13:38 nnod: ok Nov 29 16:13:41 lorelei^: i am in the netherlands currently Nov 29 16:13:59 well..if it works in the n70, then my point is moot :/ Nov 29 16:14:20 hmm Nov 29 16:14:32 N900 is very right-handed Nov 29 16:15:06 sts: on mine hildon-status-menu segfaults and startup-pin-query blocks xorg starts,i've had to disable both, do you have any idea ? are they working for you ? Nov 29 16:15:14 arachnist, really Nov 29 16:15:22 i am left handed and dont have a massive problem Nov 29 16:15:36 guys could anyone of you please help me? Nov 29 16:15:47 its kinda important Nov 29 16:15:56 lcuk: try turning on the "Turning control" in the phone app Nov 29 16:16:16 why would i want to do that Nov 29 16:16:17 wrapster: say what's your problem first Nov 29 16:16:24 i dont want to accidentally the whole thing Nov 29 16:16:53 lorelei^: how do you top up your sunrise prepaid? Nov 29 16:17:30 arachnist, it also has to be based on way because the mic is at that end Nov 29 16:17:49 if you rotated it the other way you would be talking into the speaker Nov 29 16:17:50 hm, Nov 29 16:17:53 good point Nov 29 16:18:01 and imho look sillier than a taco talking ngage user Nov 29 16:18:06 nnod: usually I do it from sunrise's website (with a credit card) Nov 29 16:18:26 lorelei^: can you put money on any number or do you have to log in to your my sunrise account? Nov 29 16:18:50 * javispedro ponders Nov 29 16:19:11 arachnist: The open-source hildon-desktop is responsible for starting the app, so if you feel like hacking... Nov 29 16:19:12 * lcuk bacons Nov 29 16:19:22 time for a tmo avatar change Nov 29 16:19:36 nnod: you have to log into your own sunrise account. If you want to load money on an arbitrary number you have to go through an ATM (or railway ticket dispenser) that offers credit recharge Nov 29 16:20:03 lorelei^: yeah...i figured. someone gave me my sim card several years ago, so i don't have access to the account Nov 29 16:22:09 nnod: hmmm, I think that you can get access to the account by requesting a personal access code (sent to your mobile) via the sunrise website Nov 29 16:22:35 nnod: but I'm not entirely sure about the procedure...did it a few years ago... Nov 29 16:22:46 back Nov 29 16:23:48 lorelei^: ok, i'll have a look thanks Nov 29 16:24:18 wazd: But, seriously, look at some recent "normal users" on t.m.o. Will you honestly argue that they can learn to play Tic Tac Toe? Nov 29 16:25:57 paging dr wazd, paging dr wazd, theres an art thread critical in tmo, get there stat. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=399264#post399264 Nov 29 16:26:24 I like texrat's entry though. Nov 29 16:26:39 * lcuk nods Nov 29 16:26:52 simplicity is best Nov 29 16:34:44 Invisible Shield for N900 has been backordered for 2-3 weeks Nov 29 16:35:10 This obsession with N900 is unhealthy, people seriously believe it is the next S60 =) Nov 29 16:35:56 invisble shield? Nov 29 16:36:09 http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/nokia-n900-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php Nov 29 16:36:20 oh great Nov 29 16:36:26 Very useful Nov 29 16:36:28 thanks Nov 29 16:36:33 Pricy though Nov 29 16:36:33 i've been looking out for something like this Nov 29 16:36:47 i was about to buy some other screen protector Nov 29 16:36:49 but this looks fine Nov 29 16:38:05 do you have to repoke the hole Nov 29 16:38:06 arachnist, it'd work better if used as left handed, then you don't cover the gsm/3g antenna with your hand ;) Nov 29 16:38:13 for the headset speaker Nov 29 16:38:19 or can you hear it through Nov 29 16:38:29 * lcuk pokes aSIMULAtor Nov 29 16:38:37 * aSIMULAtor pokes lcuk Nov 29 16:38:47 so see u this week lcuk? Nov 29 16:38:55 yeah! Nov 29 16:38:59 :D Nov 29 16:39:16 this year has gone so quick Nov 29 16:39:20 lcuk, I'd think it comes with a hole? Nov 29 16:39:34 ShadowJK_, i dunno, which is why im asking Nov 29 16:39:40 RST38h: I'm surfing thru t.m.o. with eyes closed :D Nov 29 16:40:01 wazd, and nothing of value was lost? Nov 29 16:40:02 lcuk: I'm seriously don't have much time now Nov 29 16:40:12 i seriously know now wazd Nov 29 16:40:25 time to pass on your quill to some loyal followers Nov 29 16:40:46 aSIMULAtor, hows the weather your end Nov 29 16:40:50 has the snow closed in yet Nov 29 16:41:01 lcuk: I have a nice maemo logo anyway :) Nov 29 16:41:10 wazd: Just avoid eating before browsing Nov 29 16:41:10 good Nov 29 16:41:24 i have advanced app idea too Nov 29 16:42:02 * lcuk got kicked from freenode for flooding tho Nov 29 16:42:58 weather sucks Nov 29 16:43:00 and it's dark Nov 29 16:43:09 lcuk, make your own ircd for that purpose and disable fake lag Nov 29 16:43:18 feel lethargic Nov 29 16:43:25 but i don't think i'm suffering from SAD Nov 29 16:43:35 yeah sts but i think it will end up on its own server to stop strays if the problem i spoke to you about cant be solved Nov 29 16:43:43 aSIMULAtor: joys of living in finland Nov 29 16:43:50 http://s50.radikal.ru/i129/0807/34/c3ff1e9c3b5c.jpg Nov 29 16:43:54 aSIMULAtor, same here, we were on snow watch the other night Nov 29 16:43:59 i had 3 pairs of socks on Nov 29 16:44:48 I think that we need a semaphore system on TMO Nov 29 16:44:59 just bring in the red semaphore in some threads Nov 29 16:45:04 * Stskeeps is worried he'll freeze to death in hel in january Nov 29 16:45:37 * javispedro looks at temp... 17ºC :) Nov 29 16:45:39 What is the best way to start developing maemo stuff? Nov 29 16:46:15 yeah the "joys" Nov 29 16:46:18 PolarFox: this question can asked and answered in so many different ways, it's hard to understand what you want. Nov 29 16:46:19 can't wiat for summer Nov 29 16:46:26 but i'm on holiday for a month in january Nov 29 16:46:31 i save all my summer holiday days for winter Nov 29 16:46:35 i figure, it's a good time to get out of here Nov 29 16:46:40 good choice Nov 29 16:46:48 heh Nov 29 16:47:14 yeah go somewhere sunny Nov 29 16:47:18 and get a tan Nov 29 16:48:02 stskeeps: did you have any problem i told above ? Nov 29 16:48:05 Shapeshifter: Well.. I've been waiting SDK install for a while.. and I haven't done much desktop software before... I'm still lost with all this.. :) Nov 29 16:48:25 PolarFox: well, do you know how to code? Nov 29 16:48:50 fuz_: i am not at liberty to say sorry Nov 29 16:48:57 Shapeshifter: well, some.. like 10+ years programming experience. Not much C/C++ in recent years :) Nov 29 16:49:14 mmh ok :) Nov 29 16:49:33 Shapeshifter: script languages mostly.. Ruby, Python and of couse, PHP.. :) Nov 29 16:49:46 PolarFox: well, you could write something in pygtk or pyqt. Nov 29 16:49:53 Maemo is debian-based yes? So how easy is it to port a generic debian application to maemo? Nov 29 16:49:59 or is it simply install-and-go? Nov 29 16:50:28 depends on the application, of course. Nov 29 16:50:30 Shapeshifter: I take it that Ruby apps don't go well with Maemo ;) Nov 29 16:50:38 PolarFox: http://www.zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4/ good tutorial for pyqt, http://www.zetcode.com/tutorials/pygtktutorial/ same for pygtk. I strongly recommend Qt though. Nov 29 16:50:39 * RST38h has nothing against winter, as long as all the water solidifies, and does not cross the metling point dozen times a day Nov 29 16:50:48 PolarFox: there are few ruby apps Nov 29 16:51:03 why QT? Nov 29 16:51:26 fnordianslip, yes it's know, supposedly fixed post week 47. (browser paging)) Nov 29 16:52:08 PolarFox: because it's better. ;) Nov 29 16:52:08 Is QT so much better? I've done some small GTK apps with Ruby... And I use Gnome all the time.. I'm just wonderink why I should go QT.. Nov 29 16:52:16 GAN900: so... i'm looking for testers :) Nov 29 16:52:20 PolarFox: Nokia will start pushing Qt hard "soon", but Gtk+ is there and will remain for a while. Nov 29 16:52:21 i think i finally have something shiny Nov 29 16:52:29 Shapeshifter: Love your arguments btw. :) Nov 29 16:52:32 PolarFox: and qt is nokia, and for maemo6 qt will be preferred anyway. Nov 29 16:52:42 fuz_: but yes, of course it's slower on mmc Nov 29 16:53:01 PolarFox: nah. Just reading the API... Qt is brilliantly documented, makes sense, and provides lots of useful stuff Nov 29 16:53:13 It's the best API I've ever seen Nov 29 16:53:19 GAN900: wow. better late than never (your response, not the fix) :) i raised a bug anyway, so perhaps it's a dupe: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6419 Nov 29 16:53:21 Bug 6419: Paging up (down) in browser by pressing space (Shift+Space) jumps too far Nov 29 16:53:27 qwerty12_N900: woohoo Nov 29 16:53:29 modality works :) Nov 29 16:53:54 fnordianslip: did you search? Nov 29 16:53:57 Shapeshifter: Maybe I can do QT then... It's just like cheering for the wrong team.. :) Nov 29 16:54:07 timeless_mbp: yes. Nov 29 16:54:16 Shapeshifter: I've been a Gnome loyalist since... I don't even remember :D Nov 29 16:54:17 how hard did you search? Nov 29 16:54:23 Wait until Nokia breeds Qt with Avkon... Nov 29 16:54:32 fnordianslip, yeah, I filled the original. ;) Nov 29 16:54:59 * GAN900 bemoans this keyboard. Nov 29 16:54:59 PolarFox: you can do Gtk just fine. If you haven't done any of them though, give Qt a chance. Nov 29 16:55:00 timeless_mbp: pretty hard - i really did try, but i got no matching results and looked through loads. perhaps my search-fu sucks Nov 29 16:55:01 fnordianslip: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=space&product=Browser&chfieldfrom=3m Nov 29 16:55:11 fnordianslip: that's my search Nov 29 16:55:18 please try to figure out why your search failed Nov 29 16:55:28 (odds are you didn't search resolved bugs) Nov 29 16:56:21 Do you have to make large changes because of the touchscreen interface? Nov 29 16:56:24 fnordianslip: all things considered, thumbs up for the bug style, the summary had all the right words Nov 29 16:56:34 but next time,... resolved bugs :) Nov 29 16:56:45 PolarFox: for a command line app? sure Nov 29 16:57:02 command line apps don't really work well on touchscreen devices Nov 29 16:57:23 * timeless_mbp grumbles Nov 29 16:57:25 qwerty12_N900: um Nov 29 16:57:29 i got "Failed to run" from your ui Nov 29 16:57:34 timeless_mbp: thanks. the first bug i filed was so badly filled in that i got my ass reamed by the dev, and was afraid of bugzilla for ages. i am trying harder :) Nov 29 16:57:44 fnordianslip: it's ok Nov 29 16:58:00 your bug is definitely better, and learning to use bugzilla is well... like anything else, it takes a bit of time Nov 29 16:58:09 the problem is that the defaults are designed for engineers Nov 29 16:58:15 engineers don't usually care about resolved bugs Nov 29 16:58:38 sadly in a system where fixes aren't instantly available to all users, the search rules for end users don't fit that Nov 29 17:01:00 timeless_mbp: my search query was "n900 browser" and bug 5367 wasn't returned in the results Nov 29 17:01:02 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5367 Spacebar scrolls more than 1 page Nov 29 17:01:18 yuck Nov 29 17:01:29 your search query should be based on the words you're likely to use to file the bug Nov 29 17:01:38 you used the word 'space' Nov 29 17:01:44 so that's the likely word to use while searching Nov 29 17:01:52 make sense? Nov 29 17:02:13 wouldn't "browser" be expected to return that result though? Nov 29 17:02:24 n900 is going to get you basically nothing Nov 29 17:02:45 and searching for 'browser' generally searches text fields, not necessarily products Nov 29 17:02:55 (depending on which search engine you use, bugzilla has at least 3) Nov 29 17:03:38 ok. i'd better go and find more bugs so i get more practice at this. thanks for the tips :) Nov 29 17:04:13 btw, i are an engineer, but not used to bugzilla Nov 29 17:04:47 s/are/am/ Nov 29 17:04:48 arachnist: i just want to know if you can test os.system("ls -l | grep [something] > process_output.log") will work on n900 Nov 29 17:05:09 no. "i are an engineer" is some kind of meme Nov 29 17:05:12 arachnist: its working on scratch box.. but any os.system() calls i write are not... thats weird. Nov 29 17:05:12 wrapster: that's python, right? Nov 29 17:05:19 qwerty12_N900: so um... Nov 29 17:05:28 why is that api call deciding that it failed to exec? Nov 29 17:05:31 could you please tell me if it works or any alternative of getting similar outputs... Nov 29 17:05:44 arachnist: yeah Nov 29 17:06:11 Python rocks! Nov 29 17:06:41 type_t: i know but im unable to get it up on n900.. could you give me some idea.. Nov 29 17:06:53 can anyone please help. im stuck with no way to know wahts happening.... Nov 29 17:07:04 scratchbox = it works.. n900= damn Nov 29 17:07:06 ! Nov 29 17:07:11 wrapster: works here Nov 29 17:08:19 wrapster where dis you get your python package from? Nov 29 17:10:28 wrapster: http://dpaste.com/126654/ Nov 29 17:10:29 i'm wondering if the n900 is worth the price? i heard vague rumors that it would be succeeded quickly? Nov 29 17:11:05 bakarat: how often do you buy a phone? Nov 29 17:11:27 bakarat: i love my n900, personally, and the overwhelming amount of requests for n900 may change any existing plans Nov 29 17:11:29 how many people do you know who have purchased an iPhone, iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS? Nov 29 17:11:38 timeless_mbp, a phone? not too much, last one is 4 years old and dying, but i have a n810 on the side Nov 29 17:11:55 so your phone will last a while... Nov 29 17:12:02 bakarat: if by "quickly" you mean "in a year"? Nov 29 17:12:06 bakarat, people who preordered N900 and experienced the delay would dispute the "quickly" part ;P Nov 29 17:12:16 * w00t mutters Nov 29 17:12:20 * timeless_mbp chuckles Nov 29 17:12:29 bakarat: looking at it another way Nov 29 17:12:34 bakarat: I'm personally holding off for something that sucks less Nov 29 17:12:36 arachnist, ye, i heard in bout 1 year Nov 29 17:12:45 so far Nokia's Maemo whatever hasn't managed to produce things in much faster than 1 year Nov 29 17:12:49 luke-jr, how's that? what exactly sucks? Nov 29 17:12:58 if you're willing to wait 1yr+X for another phone Nov 29 17:13:01 then you're free to wait Nov 29 17:13:05 but don't complain when X grows Nov 29 17:13:07 bakarat: it's not open Nov 29 17:13:11 new hardware is always on the move, anyway Nov 29 17:13:13 luke-jr, eh? Nov 29 17:13:16 1 year from now, you could start waiting for another year for something else Nov 29 17:13:19 luke-jr: oi, didn't you get warned on trolling? Nov 29 17:13:21 and one year from that too Nov 29 17:13:23 arachnist: on n900? Nov 29 17:13:27 wrapster: yes Nov 29 17:13:36 no w00t when a customer buys a phone the whole development process stops Nov 29 17:13:37 this is pure speculation, but the next device will probably have working gps, a magnetometer for compass, working USB host and a bigger battery. However, it will have no HSDPA and no keyboard. Nokia giveth, Nokia taketh away ;) Nov 29 17:13:40 Stskeeps: warning consumers against Nokia's false marketting is not trolling, kthx Nov 29 17:13:43 lcuk: oh! Nov 29 17:13:45 and new devices and features are never made Nov 29 17:13:54 this is a special feature just for bakarat Nov 29 17:13:59 ShadowJK_, i was under the impression this one had gps as well? :p Nov 29 17:14:02 you mean the n700 is all that is available? :-( Nov 29 17:14:02 luke-jr: has nokia done *any* marketing? Nov 29 17:14:03 ShadowJK_: N900's GPS doesn't work still? Nov 29 17:14:04 luke-jr: he did not mention anything about open, so be fair Nov 29 17:14:06 luke-jr: go openmoko if you want truly open. but don't complain if you won't be able to even make a phone call every second update Nov 29 17:14:07 all i see here is Samsung marketing Nov 29 17:14:11 :o Nov 29 17:14:27 luke-jr, it's bug for bug compatible with N810 I suspect ;) Nov 29 17:14:27 timeless_mbp: if the marketting isn't Nokia, who is it? :p Nov 29 17:14:28 timeless_mbp: they've put up a few crappy youtube videos Nov 29 17:14:31 I haven't testd it, I only read bugzilla Nov 29 17:14:35 i'm here because of Stskeeps, personally Nov 29 17:14:37 w00t: i'd hardly call that marketing Nov 29 17:14:43 w00t's my bitch Nov 29 17:14:43 i suppose that counts as marketing by proxy Nov 29 17:14:44 :P Nov 29 17:15:10 in particular, who promotes the N900 as "open source"? Nov 29 17:15:24 that isn't Nokia? Nov 29 17:15:26 i've also raved on a lot about the n900 to just about everyone I know, but I'm certainly not on commission (or I'd probably be able to retire by now) Nov 29 17:15:35 I'm pretty sure I saw a Nokia blog doing just that... Nov 29 17:15:49 luke-jr: urls or it didn't happen :) Nov 29 17:15:50 they do that about symbian too.. Nov 29 17:16:12 Stskeeps, when you said remove fake lag - i tohught the delay in retranmission came from server side itself Nov 29 17:16:12 ie freenode Nov 29 17:16:17 in this case Nov 29 17:16:45 and to do it without lag/boots for flooding i would need a dedicated server which allowed this sort of thing Nov 29 17:16:47 http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ Nov 29 17:17:00 not explicitly claiming Maemo is open source, but the language implies it strongly Nov 29 17:17:04 lcuk: most clients have settings to delay how fast they send stuff Nov 29 17:17:04 hrm... seems extras devel is still broken :-( Nov 29 17:17:16 w00t: oi, don't reveal your shady past :( Nov 29 17:17:22 luke-jr: it's a trick. maemo is 100% closed! Nov 29 17:17:30 Stskeeps: hard to get out of the habit. Nov 29 17:17:39 w00t, lol Nov 29 17:17:52 w00t, my client isnt delaying anytihng Nov 29 17:17:56 The groupies are still being retrained Nov 29 17:18:00 and i got kicked from freenode last night for flooding Nov 29 17:18:02 if it's X-Chat it is delaying Nov 29 17:18:09 at least here Nov 29 17:18:12 xchat doesnt sketch over irc Nov 29 17:18:16 microlith: There's a reason I use the term "not open" rather than "closed" ;) Nov 29 17:18:23 luck: ah, THAT client ;) Nov 29 17:18:51 luke-jr: oh, i have a new target for you Nov 29 17:18:52 luke-jr: none of his words or even paragraphs are technically wrong Nov 29 17:18:53 archos 5/7 Nov 29 17:19:08 lcuk: meh, it happens :-) Nov 29 17:19:15 perhaps he should have said "showcase of open source UI framework" Nov 29 17:19:16 * lcuk knows Nov 29 17:19:23 but that wouldn't have have made much sense Nov 29 17:19:47 timeless_mbp: it doesn't need to be objectively false to imply that which is not true Nov 29 17:19:55 even the title implies Maemo 5 is open Nov 29 17:19:58 ah, we enter territory of metaphysics Nov 29 17:20:11 the title doesn't Nov 29 17:20:22 it's not like "The Open Browser" Nov 29 17:20:25 * timeless_mbp curses Nokia marketing Nov 29 17:20:29 which was hardly open Nov 29 17:20:29 maybe it should've clarified that it's ESR open not RMS open ;-D Nov 29 17:20:40 why would software freedom loves *care* about Maemo 5? only if it were open Nov 29 17:20:52 ShadowJK_: I think ESR would object Nov 29 17:20:53 ShadowJK_: ouch Nov 29 17:20:57 luke-jr: you can't run normal gtk or Qt programs on Android Nov 29 17:21:08 luke-jr: because it's a company taking steps and agreeing to be more open than they otherwise would be Nov 29 17:21:09 and you can't run general programs on the iPhone Nov 29 17:21:10 timeless_mbp: so? Nov 29 17:21:12 or make a whole new toolkit Nov 29 17:21:18 this is open to whatever software you want to add Nov 29 17:21:24 timeless_mbp: I didn't say those were open either Nov 29 17:21:50 realistically, this is the only commercial product available today where people can install whatever open source software they like Nov 29 17:21:50 sorry guys, i missed the answer (if any) to my first question: how easy is it to port/simply run a generic debian application on maemo? Nov 29 17:21:57 and do pretty much whatever they like to their phone Nov 29 17:21:57 i mean, does it run more or less out of the box or does it require some effort? Nov 29 17:22:04 luke-jr, the presence of a few programmable black boxes does not prevent me from making open code Nov 29 17:22:12 bakarat: it's fairly simple Nov 29 17:22:17 but you can spend forever polishing it Nov 29 17:22:20 timeless_mbp: within Nokia's sandbox Nov 29 17:22:22 same applies to anything else Nov 29 17:22:29 luke-jr: sandbox? Nov 29 17:22:31 luke-jr: there's a sandbox in maemo? Nov 29 17:22:47 anything missing from the sandbox can be added Nov 29 17:22:51 timeless_mbp: without open drivers, you can only do what those drivers let you Nov 29 17:22:54 luke-jr, nokias sandbox is a bit like a trip to the seaside ;) Nov 29 17:23:02 without code, it's impossible to identify what is missing Nov 29 17:23:04 even on a beach you have boundaries and limitations Nov 29 17:23:22 * timeless_mbp would hate to drown in an ocean Nov 29 17:23:30 timeless_mbp, well that's good to hear, the main reason i want something linux based is 1) for apps and 2) for integration with my computers @ home :> Nov 29 17:23:33 or sink in quicksand Nov 29 17:23:33 lcuk: it's like a trip to the seaside when you purchased a cruiseship Nov 29 17:23:50 bakarat: what kind of "Integration"? Nov 29 17:23:54 luke-jr: go whine at PowerVR and TI Nov 29 17:23:56 timeless_mbp: then don't jump off the cruiseship. Nov 29 17:24:03 any way to get tn900 kb working instopcli Nov 29 17:24:05 microlith, im not whining Nov 29 17:24:08 i dont need powervr Nov 29 17:24:10 microlith: I would, if it was merely PowerVR and TI at fault. Nov 29 17:24:12 its slower Nov 29 17:24:15 lcuk: not you Nov 29 17:24:17 luke-jr: as long as i'm allowed to steer my cruiseship into an iceberg! Nov 29 17:24:19 javispedro, well currently i use my n810 to sync with evolution, ssh,.. Nov 29 17:24:23 * lcuk misread Nov 29 17:24:24 lol Nov 29 17:24:30 timeless_mbp: allowed to != choose to Nov 29 17:24:35 luke-jr: time for some reverse engineering then Nov 29 17:24:46 oh, anyone is free to steer their n900 into an iceberg Nov 29 17:24:47 microlith: not practical, I tried for N810 Nov 29 17:24:51 bakarat: "sync with evolution" with GPE I hope, cause the default soft won't allow you (for now at least) Nov 29 17:24:54 it's just not recommended Nov 29 17:25:07 javispedro, yupz Nov 29 17:25:12 timeless, RMS will do his titanic bit (he is Kate Winslet with Linus being Leonardo)( Nov 29 17:25:27 timeless_mbp: but there's a steering lock on the wheel to stop us, and to do it we need to rip off the entire wheel! Nov 29 17:25:29 lcuk: i hated that movie Nov 29 17:25:36 lcuk: NOOOOOO Nov 29 17:25:41 now I have celine dion in my head Nov 29 17:25:42 pretty ,much every person with testosterone did Nov 29 17:25:43 you bastard Nov 29 17:25:45 good car^W ship analogy. Nov 29 17:25:54 hahaha Nov 29 17:26:06 btw, isn't the graphics chip similiar in N810/N800 to what's in N900? Nov 29 17:26:12 no Nov 29 17:26:12 timeless_mbp: which means we can't do a "close miss" of the iceberg Nov 29 17:26:25 arachnist: similar as in from the same company, but a new model Nov 29 17:26:26 arachnist, mbx vs sgx Nov 29 17:26:26 oh, hitting the iceberg isn't that hard Nov 29 17:26:35 crashing with iceberg at full speed is the maemo way Nov 29 17:26:37 arachnist: it has letters in it! Nov 29 17:26:45 timeless_mbp: the point is you need to lose all control to hit it Nov 29 17:27:05 hrm Nov 29 17:27:07 luke-jr: well, ofcourse a newer model. the older one didn't do 3d due to being low on memory Nov 29 17:27:15 to be fair you do need to take it off autopilot Nov 29 17:27:22 arachnist: the older one can do 3D Nov 29 17:27:39 luke-jr: but not in 800x480 Nov 29 17:27:43 no? Nov 29 17:27:53 IIRC, TI promised usable GLES drivers for the N810 and never delivered Nov 29 17:27:55 Stskeeps: did they? Nov 29 17:28:00 hell no, we dont crash into icebergs. we just make 40page threads about the possibility of crashing into an iceberg Nov 29 17:28:05 luke-jr: afaik no Nov 29 17:28:08 they have delivered but for OMAP2, we're working on N8x0 support Nov 29 17:28:21 the screwed up framebuffer setup is causing some trouble Nov 29 17:28:22 *punch sound* Nov 29 17:28:26 ah Nov 29 17:28:39 so capable people are working on it Nov 29 17:28:40 Stskeeps: but in theory it *can* do 800x480,right? Nov 29 17:28:41 * lcuk w00ts Nov 29 17:28:52 luke-jr: we're not sure. maybe. Nov 29 17:28:56 heh Nov 29 17:29:09 * javispedro remembers of something :P Nov 29 17:29:28 lcuk: hahahaha Nov 29 17:29:38 lcuk: so, what you're saying is, talk is like the titanic Nov 29 17:29:46 slowly sinking into icy waters that nobody will want to be in Nov 29 17:29:53 not at all Nov 29 17:30:05 w00t: i wonder if ashes on talk.maemo.org is our ashes Nov 29 17:30:08 but that everyone will occasionally peer at through a robot submarine in years to come.. Nov 29 17:30:10 what people fail to realise if the good ship maemo only travels along rivers Nov 29 17:30:18 where there has never been an iceberg ever Nov 29 17:30:19 Stskeeps: DEAR GOD NO :< Nov 29 17:30:31 Stskeeps: we'll know he is if he makes 10 page posts about making dinner for his cat Nov 29 17:30:40 o_O Nov 29 17:30:44 with photos? Nov 29 17:30:53 knowing that ashes, possibly Nov 29 17:30:54 kittyeats Nov 29 17:31:00 cool Nov 29 17:31:06 another use for n900 Nov 29 17:31:20 is there a photo share doofer to upload to talk.maemo.org directly from n900 Nov 29 17:31:22 and make a new thread Nov 29 17:31:26 He was rounding up volunteer homeless people to get started with his carreer as a tattooist, last I saw Nov 29 17:31:44 Hi again everybody Nov 29 17:31:46 ShadowJK_: hah. Nov 29 17:32:26 Someone told him pracitcing on pig skin isn't worth it Nov 29 17:32:50 hahahah Nov 29 17:32:59 ShadowJK_: in iceland? Nov 29 17:35:36 quebec now afaik Nov 29 17:36:08 how pleasantly random Nov 29 17:42:15 The text that you have entered is too long (167695 characters). Please shorten it to 15000 characters long. <<< roh we cannot enter a single sentence on t.m.o made of "ha ha" Nov 29 17:42:16 ;) Nov 29 17:43:23 :-( Nov 29 17:44:42 :) Nov 29 17:47:02 pfioou ... trying to found something interesting on t.m.o is a real paining ... we should rename whinning.maemo.org Nov 29 17:47:04 You wouldn't beleive it but my PC's dead again :D Nov 29 17:47:54 hum ... are you sure that you have really connected your power supply correctly to the main board ? Nov 29 17:48:40 because you can't plug directly power to the main board you need a power supply before waz1 :) Nov 29 17:49:03 Khertan: 167KB of spam? ;> Nov 29 17:49:23 167KC (Kilo Chars :) ) Nov 29 17:49:39 waz1: what did you do this time? Nov 29 17:50:38 Stskeeps: ah, it's common Vista registry failure Nov 29 17:51:14 Installation CD cures it but ironically I doon't have one with me Nov 29 17:51:24 how is that ironic? Nov 29 17:51:37 I thiink it's time to move to seven) Nov 29 17:51:42 waz1: it's not your pc's that dead Nov 29 17:51:47 waz1: your OS is broken Nov 29 17:51:54 there's a big difference Nov 29 17:51:55 :> Nov 29 17:52:15 (use a real os ... ) Nov 29 17:52:16 :) Nov 29 17:52:28 Arachnist: thanks, Cap :D Nov 29 17:52:34 btw, there is a way to run windows in a sane way Nov 29 17:52:46 http://etherboot.org/wiki/sanboot/win2k8_iscsi_install Nov 29 17:53:13 Khertan: Well, initially this vista was installed on a completely different hardware Nov 29 17:53:35 waz1: ouch ... this doesn't help Nov 29 17:53:36 just install it on an iscsi volume shared from a solaris box (zfs zvol with shareiscsi property set "on") Nov 29 17:53:55 * timeless_mbp cries Nov 29 17:53:56 So I blame my laziness more) Nov 29 17:53:58 ok, so um Nov 29 17:54:06 waz1: as windows store many hardware information in his registry database and most of the time use it without hw verification Nov 29 17:54:07 someone needs to help me figure out how to make cancel work correctly Nov 29 17:54:16 since it seems i don't have that working Nov 29 17:54:40 timeless_mbp: cancel ? Nov 29 17:54:45 timeless_mbp: where to ? Nov 29 17:54:48 Khertan: i have a progress dialog Nov 29 17:54:55 and when you click cancel, the dialog goes away Nov 29 17:55:00 but the work i'm doing doesn't stop :o Nov 29 17:55:04 arf ... :) Nov 29 17:55:19 kill -9 ... or try ctrl backspace Nov 29 17:55:35 nah, goal is to fix it for end users :) Nov 29 17:55:44 ah :) Nov 29 17:59:22 timeless_mbp: cancel button? why not just the "click outside the dialog"? Nov 29 17:59:52 arachnist: expensive progress dialogs have cancel buttons Nov 29 18:00:02 they protect you from accidentally doing something stupid Nov 29 18:00:04 see HAM Nov 29 18:00:23 HAM? Nov 29 18:00:29 ~ham Nov 29 18:00:30 methinks ham is oink oink Nov 29 18:00:35 * timeless_mbp kicks infobot Nov 29 18:02:08 lol Nov 29 18:02:11 :) Nov 29 18:02:28 * timeless_mbp frowns Nov 29 18:02:30 you gotta love silly acronyms =) Nov 29 18:02:38 infobot says no Nov 29 18:02:38 Application Manager Nov 29 18:03:22 ~Hildon Application Manager Nov 29 18:03:30 ~stupid bot Nov 29 18:03:31 Stupid human. Nov 29 18:03:37 haha Nov 29 18:03:39 :( Nov 29 18:04:03 ~N900 Nov 29 18:04:04 well, n900 is OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA, Maemo 5 (Fremantle), probably Summer 2009 (or later) Nov 29 18:04:33 ~N910 Nov 29 18:04:35 ~N920 Nov 29 18:04:42 ~N810 Nov 29 18:04:52 ~n800 Nov 29 18:05:00 Ñ900 Nov 29 18:05:09 ~hara-kiri Nov 29 18:05:20 ~self.destroy() Nov 29 18:05:28 ~kamikaze Nov 29 18:05:35 ~chase Khertan Nov 29 18:05:36 * infobot chases Khertan Nov 29 18:06:28 benzea:/win 63 Nov 29 18:06:31 er Nov 29 18:07:31 * javispedro glances at some more .. .uh.. "people" in the emulators threads. Nov 29 18:08:21 what's the problem with nintendo? nokia ships tablets with preinstalled emulator? Nov 29 18:08:53 slonopotamus: some nokia employee show a n900 running a snes emulator Nov 29 18:08:58 -> nintendo sends dcma letter to maemo.org -> nokia panics -> maemo.org deletes everything Nov 29 18:08:58 in a video Nov 29 18:09:10 or something like that Nov 29 18:09:31 Khertan, and so what? Nov 29 18:09:35 * RST38h moos Nov 29 18:09:40 wb RST38h Nov 29 18:10:01 javispedro: Beware, I just watched Zombieland, so all those "people" cause certian kind of response in me... Nov 29 18:10:04 * kalikiana milks RST38h Nov 29 18:10:05 NeoPain, you surely are a new pain. Nov 29 18:10:38 slonopotamus: and ... so ... fearrrrr .... and discution ... but before removing ... if i understand all well Nov 29 18:10:42 is there a way to make N900 not rescale images when sharing to an online service while on wifi? Nov 29 18:10:46 but discussion Nov 29 18:10:58 nokia deleted stuff from maemo extras? Nov 29 18:11:40 Pavlov: not nokia i think but the community Nov 29 18:12:10 but i couldn't say more ... i ve just read discussion on talk ... Nov 29 18:12:14 heh Nov 29 18:12:18 so could be completly wrong Nov 29 18:13:13 ok, problem solved :) Nov 29 18:13:24 RST38h: well I would be VERY happy if you could arrange them to be exterminated. Nov 29 18:13:53 before they have the chance to pm me... again... Nov 29 18:13:58 * RST38h prays to the Tentacled One to make use of this low calorie food source Nov 29 18:14:16 Pavlov, Quim contacted the council who agreed to takedown, then Quim contacted maintainers who also agreed, then some maemo.org people removed the packages. Nov 29 18:14:37 Has PokerTH been optified already? Nov 29 18:14:41 GAN900: sounds like apple :/ Nov 29 18:14:52 Pavlov: except apple doesn't really ask Nov 29 18:15:01 heh, fair enough Nov 29 18:15:04 Pavlov: save that we consented for the removal of packages. Nov 29 18:15:21 even though I have to wonder what would have happened if I acted crazy and said "over my dead body" Nov 29 18:15:34 javispedro: they would still remove the packages Nov 29 18:15:41 basically. Nov 29 18:15:51 or either send in the black helicopters :) Nov 29 18:16:19 there was no legal fundation for the removal, so nothing serious could've happened =) Nov 29 18:16:24 Hello Nov 29 18:16:50 kalikiana: no, but then again, saving some money from maemo.org budget to get us have candy at next summit, might be useful Nov 29 18:16:53 Is it possible to run android apps on maemo - like wine and windows>unix? Nov 29 18:16:54 :P Nov 29 18:18:31 LuciusMare: would be if ChickenCutlass had published his sources Nov 29 18:19:05 ChickenCutlass? Nov 29 18:19:14 michael frey, google android on ubuntu Nov 29 18:21:07 hm Nov 29 18:21:14 think i need to give the zimbra box more ram Nov 29 18:21:34 ah, we're already getting n97 / s60 questions Nov 29 18:21:38 in tmo. Nov 29 18:21:49 tmo has n97s? Nov 29 18:21:56 newtmo has. Nov 29 18:22:03 heh Nov 29 18:22:09 are they asking 'why doesn't my 3g work?' Nov 29 18:22:11 hehe Nov 29 18:22:24 * RST38h once again suggests creating a google group Nov 29 18:22:25 something about yahoo Nov 29 18:22:41 Anyone willing to join/ Nov 29 18:22:42 ? Nov 29 18:22:57 * javispedro votes for usenet group :) Nov 29 18:23:03 no Nov 29 18:23:08 google is the machine Nov 29 18:23:12 make your own group Nov 29 18:23:13 :) Nov 29 18:23:18 RST38h: garage.maemo.org mailing list Nov 29 18:23:18 ? Nov 29 18:23:19 :P Nov 29 18:23:34 Stskeeps: I hate mailing lists =( They generate too much mail Nov 29 18:23:40 heh Nov 29 18:23:48 though, I enjoy reading mailing lists throug gmane/Pan :) Nov 29 18:24:09 doesn't maemo.org have forums? Nov 29 18:24:46 I love how Apple is advertising "multitasking" now. Nov 29 18:24:50 anyone know how the battery holds up on the n900? Nov 29 18:25:51 bakarat, very good unless you keep wireless on permanently :-) Nov 29 18:25:57 GAN900: URL? :) Nov 29 18:26:16 GAN900: new groundbreaking apple stuff? Nov 29 18:26:19 kalikiana, could you define "very good"? :p currently my n810 is drained after a day of music playing Nov 29 18:26:20 like the iphone compass? Nov 29 18:27:36 Stskeeps: Besides, Googroups allow just the right access control. We can pretty much allow all the regulars in, and moderate the rest Nov 29 18:28:06 Stskeeps: Allowing people in on the basis of having significant brain activity Nov 29 18:28:08 bakarat, I think about 2 days when I play music in the train and surf a bit Nov 29 18:28:14 RST38h: you can do the same with wordpress Nov 29 18:28:31 no scientific measurements, though, just estimated Nov 29 18:28:32 Macer: Yes but then I have to install, configure, and manage wordpress Nov 29 18:28:36 kalikiana, that is....almost too hard to believe :) i thought it had a weaker battery then n810 and tons more "gadgety" stuff? Nov 29 18:28:39 Not interested in that Nov 29 18:28:42 * DocScrutinizer wonders how RST38h is going to evaluate that criterion Nov 29 18:28:43 Stskeeps: hey, how do i install dpkg? :) Nov 29 18:28:57 XP and WiFi don't mix Nov 29 18:29:06 RST38h: it takes like 2 minutes to set up and manage wordpress ;) Nov 29 18:29:06 timeless_mbp: *twitch* Nov 29 18:29:15 Set it up where? Nov 29 18:29:28 it's harder to set up apache than it is wordpress Nov 29 18:29:28 Stskeeps: my scratchbox is very minimal Nov 29 18:29:28 it doesn't have dpkg :) Nov 29 18:29:29 DocScrutinizer: 10:00:50< RST38h> Sts: JoinDate>=10/1/2009 works Nov 29 18:29:34 RST38h: i dunno. tell Stskeeps to put it on maemo.org :) Nov 29 18:29:54 bakarat, more gadgety? Nov 29 18:29:58 javispedro, YouTube. They show a guy looking up email while on a call and somehow this is revolutionary. Nov 29 18:30:08 kalikiana, well, an actual gsm module for one :P Nov 29 18:30:12 My 6682 could do that. Nov 29 18:30:26 GAN900: ah, palmos style multitasking Nov 29 18:30:44 what do we want wordpress for? :P Nov 29 18:31:16 setup another copy of vB somewhere and .. exodus! ;) Nov 29 18:31:42 * timeless_mbp enables dpkg Nov 29 18:32:01 * Stskeeps isn't sure dividing is the best thing to do atm. Nov 29 18:32:16 interesting Nov 29 18:32:17 bakarat, gsm standby is fine. of course if you talk all the time that might vary Nov 29 18:32:28 i had dpkg in arm sb, but not x86 sb Nov 29 18:32:52 Stskeeps, somebody needs to open a "Moderators should be more active" thread. Nov 29 18:32:54 bakarat: the battery in "100% use" is lower than n810, on idle mode is similar. Nov 29 18:33:08 GAN900: feel free? Nov 29 18:33:16 Who among us has the most credibility with the proles? Nov 29 18:33:22 penguinbait? Nov 29 18:33:30 lol Nov 29 18:33:41 whoever gives them illegal emulators Nov 29 18:33:47 I was thinking qole, but, yeah, that's probably right. Nov 29 18:33:50 Nov 29 18:33:58 javispedro, arugably 100% use is an unfair comparison since the device has more components :-P Nov 29 18:34:03 GAN900: nah, qole is sane these days Nov 29 18:34:13 kalikiana: and a smaller battery.. Nov 29 18:34:24 Stskeeps, yeah, he's gone and joined the evil cabal. Nov 29 18:34:44 But better power saving Nov 29 18:35:16 wow zimbra takes forever to yenc attachments Nov 29 18:35:17 wtf Nov 29 18:35:23 arrrrrrrgh Nov 29 18:36:10 javispedro: should we freeze you until this blows over? Nov 29 18:36:37 no, but I'm considering blocking talk.maemo.org at the router level Nov 29 18:36:51 * timeless_mbp frowns Nov 29 18:36:55 qwerty12_N900: where do i get sstrip? Nov 29 18:37:01 and at gmail level... Nov 29 18:37:05 for mer I got it from elfkickers Nov 29 18:37:13 * javispedro wanders off to do real work Nov 29 18:37:15 but maemo doesn't have it Nov 29 18:37:32 * timeless_mbp wonders what's wrong w/ dh_strip Nov 29 18:37:44 seems a lot of attitude on tmo Nov 29 18:37:51 timeless_mbp: Just comment it out. Now, sleep Nov 29 18:37:55 ok Nov 29 18:40:06 sleep at 18.40? Nov 29 18:40:46 21:40 Nov 29 18:41:02 lol Nov 29 18:41:39 Stskeeps, i fell asleep at this time last week, sat in chair and everything Nov 29 18:41:55 missus noticed and didnt think to wake me even though my neck was @ 90degrees Nov 29 18:42:21 you got life insurance ? Nov 29 18:42:32 kynky, lol Nov 29 18:43:26 wtf Nov 29 18:43:32 your intltool is too old? Nov 29 18:43:39 welcome to SB Nov 29 18:43:54 sb? or maemo? Nov 29 18:43:58 sb probably Nov 29 18:44:05 intltool claims to come from fremantle/sdk/free Nov 29 18:44:10 at 0.35.0-3 Nov 29 18:44:16 and the package wants 0.40.0 Nov 29 18:44:17 doctools or something devkit Nov 29 18:46:04 * timeless_mbp sighs Nov 29 18:46:08 won't you be my packager? Nov 29 18:47:24 does the n900 come with a subscription for the maps? or do you have to pay extra? (or are the maps free? :p) Nov 29 18:48:12 bakarat: the maps are um... Nov 29 18:48:14 is my maemo talk login different than the rest of the site login? Nov 29 18:48:15 licensed for your use Nov 29 18:48:17 i suppose Nov 29 18:48:19 Pavlov: yes Nov 29 18:48:21 Pavlov: ayup :) Nov 29 18:48:39 timeless_mbp, well i ask becuase on the n810 they were not, so i am using maemo mapper atm :p Nov 29 18:48:42 Pavlov: trust us, you don't want to go anywhere near talk Nov 29 18:48:53 bakarat: free doesn't mean worth using :) Nov 29 18:49:19 timeless_mbp, that bad? :p Nov 29 18:49:29 bakarat: depends where you travel Nov 29 18:49:35 Kiev is 1 1/2 roads Nov 29 18:49:44 it wasn't what i'd call "helpful" Nov 29 18:49:50 timeless_mbp, well mostly western europe Nov 29 18:50:03 bah, anything will work in western europe Nov 29 18:50:08 hehe :) Nov 29 18:50:09 you're no fun Nov 29 18:50:11 :D Nov 29 18:50:14 where's your sense of adventure? Nov 29 18:50:28 should be satnav software by third party with turn by turn and voice navigation , similar to tomtom by end of xmas Nov 29 18:51:15 o btw, the nokia n810 needs to be reflashed for maemo upgrade iirc, but the n900 can simply do something like apt-get dist-upgrade or something right? Nov 29 18:51:19 but ovi maps 1.0 i hear isnt that great, and no chance of gmaps till jvm, and even then i dunno Nov 29 18:51:35 n900 can do ota updates Nov 29 18:51:55 kynky, your terminology is causing a wooshing effect over here :p Nov 29 18:52:11 ota = over the air :) Nov 29 18:52:13 gmaps = google maps i presume, jvm...afaik that's java virtual machine, although how that ties in with google maps, not a clue Nov 29 18:52:21 ah ok :) Nov 29 18:52:35 bakarat, from what ive read alot of the google apps stuff needs jvm Nov 29 18:52:36 bakarat: some n8x0 updates are over the air Nov 29 18:52:49 hopefully most n900 updates will be over the air Nov 29 18:52:58 native apps, not webapps i mean Nov 29 18:53:16 o Nov 29 18:53:32 native apps use inbuilt gps then Nov 29 18:53:54 gah, it's just the pricetag that's keeping me back atm, so damned expensive :P Nov 29 18:54:04 not me Nov 29 18:54:05 but my cellphone is dying atm, so can't wait for it to drop Nov 29 18:54:13 I'd gladly buy one in an instant if it met my requirements Nov 29 18:54:14 :p Nov 29 18:54:16 shoulda got when it was cheap, was half price around oct 20th Nov 29 18:54:27 :| Nov 29 18:54:29 que? :| Nov 29 18:54:30 kynky: wtf? Nov 29 18:55:04 * Pavlov wonders how long it takes for his garage account to work everywhere Nov 29 18:55:19 i got it for £250 , n900 that is Nov 29 18:55:20 i'm comparing it to nokia 6710 navigator, which offers a lot of the same functionality (no maemo though :'() but is a LOT cheaper Nov 29 18:55:30 Stskeeps: still dying Nov 29 18:55:32 kynky, "fell of the boat! i swears!" Nov 29 18:55:35 xml::parser not found Nov 29 18:55:46 bakarat, got from nokia uk shop Nov 29 18:56:04 kynde: Now? Nov 29 18:56:05 kynky, well, without such a sweet bargain, it's a _lot_ of money :p Nov 29 18:56:07 How* Nov 29 18:56:11 can buy a sweet desktop for that price Nov 29 18:56:17 nokia 5130 is like a cheap n900) Nov 29 18:57:06 3 x 15% discount codes + £50 topcashback Nov 29 18:57:38 :0 Nov 29 18:57:40 Gimme a code Nov 29 18:57:41 haha Nov 29 18:57:46 I'm ordering mine today :P Nov 29 18:57:50 they ran out on oct 21st Nov 29 18:57:54 D: Nov 29 18:58:16 o btw, anyone know if the syncing on the n900 is any good? (running mostly ubuntu on home systems) Nov 29 18:58:32 bakarat: syncing with what? Nov 29 18:58:35 there is grsync , so syncing should be easy Nov 29 18:58:39 arachnist, well evolution would be nice Nov 29 18:58:49 *googles grsync* Nov 29 18:58:51 bakarat: if you keep on using GPE, everything will be as usual Nov 29 18:59:13 Pavlov, i.e., SSO or until everything's synched for a new account? Nov 29 18:59:14 javispedro, while gpe works, it does have some drawbacks...so was hoping for something better :p Nov 29 18:59:16 Is there a barcode Nov 29 18:59:20 Agh Nov 29 18:59:25 bakarat: nothing better for now Nov 29 18:59:32 (which is sad Nov 29 18:59:33 ) Nov 29 18:59:33 grsync is a gtk frontend to rsync, rsync is the definitive linux synching tool Nov 29 18:59:46 GAN900: the latter Nov 29 18:59:48 Is there a barcode (QR code) scanner for maemo,like i-nigma or something? Nov 29 18:59:52 but i read it supports syncml, and opensync supports almost all of syncml Nov 29 19:00:04 so uh...shouldn't syncing pim data be easy as pie? Nov 29 19:00:15 kynky, i mean pim syncing, rsync is more file-based ye? Nov 29 19:00:23 if you think that adding 3 layers of abstraction will make a better sync than the current one with just two (that already sucks), well =) Nov 29 19:00:26 Pavlov, shouldn't be more than 24 hours. Nov 29 19:00:28 kynky, that could work as well obviously since the pim data is probably somewhere in clear text :) Nov 29 19:00:30 but still :P Nov 29 19:00:38 dunno much about it, but think ovi has some services for syncing stuff, but not sure Nov 29 19:00:38 oh, not "a few minutes" like it claims? ;) Nov 29 19:00:42 Pavlov, although who knows with the crazy serverloads. Nov 29 19:00:47 Nvm,found it Nov 29 19:00:49 Oh Nov 29 19:00:49 wow no qwerty today? Nov 29 19:00:59 kynky, from what i can gather the ovi suite has no release for linux yet nor any upcoming (one for mac though...) Nov 29 19:01:03 Can apps for OS2008 run on Maemo5? Nov 29 19:01:10 Pavlov, well, it SHOULD be just a few minutes, but isn't always. :( Nov 29 19:01:15 gotcha Nov 29 19:02:31 qwerty went to bed Nov 29 19:02:42 Ah, ChristExaport, your hubris is so uplifting. Nov 29 19:02:48 qwerty actually sleeps? etc Nov 29 19:03:12 LuciusMare: most people rebuild for distinct platforms Nov 29 19:03:19 it's not that an app /couldn't/ run Nov 29 19:03:23 kynky: how long ago? Nov 29 19:03:29 it's just that rebuilding it is worth it Nov 29 19:03:34 would assume the tool chains would be diff Nov 29 19:03:59 they are Nov 29 19:04:06 who else here ordered from Amazon usa Nov 29 19:04:06 timeless_mbp: so no digging in code,just recompiling? Nov 29 19:04:17 when you're lucky, yes Nov 29 19:04:18 Xisdibik: I canceled my order Nov 29 19:04:23 Xisdibik, nearly 30mins ago he quit Nov 29 19:04:26 Xisdibik: Im reordering today from Nokia Nov 29 19:04:39 Cuz I want it this week lol Nov 29 19:04:55 n900 is awesome btw Nov 29 19:05:05 Nah, its shit! Nov 29 19:05:06 :P Nov 29 19:05:12 had an htc touch pro before Nov 29 19:05:18 AakashPatel, lol Nov 29 19:05:23 I have an HTC Dream rihght now lol Nov 29 19:05:31 AakashPatel: when you ordered yours from Amazon. did you get the 3 yr warrenty dealio from the third party? Nov 29 19:05:35 why ? hehe Nov 29 19:05:55 I have no clue Nov 29 19:05:56 or would you have Nov 29 19:06:02 But im going with nokia usa lol Nov 29 19:06:07 heh k Nov 29 19:06:11 useless! :P Nov 29 19:06:13 :D Nov 29 19:06:32 so you going with tmobile then ? Nov 29 19:07:00 ATT :P Nov 29 19:07:00 GSM with the n900, have fun :P Nov 29 19:07:00 And Xisdibik you dont know when your gonna get it Nov 29 19:07:00 yes i do Nov 29 19:07:01 haha it could be the end of december befroe you do Nov 29 19:07:03 tomorrow Nov 29 19:07:03 :p Nov 29 19:07:07 ...no Nov 29 19:07:12 they arent shipping Nov 29 19:07:13 i got an email from amazon Nov 29 19:07:17 HuH??? Nov 29 19:07:20 anyone dare venture a guess how long before the first decent price drop for the n900? ;) Nov 29 19:07:23 saying the order is shipping estimated delivery date of Nov 30th Nov 29 19:07:28 timeless_mbp: so no digging in code,just recompiling? Nov 29 19:07:36 Oh when did your oder Nov 29 19:07:37 AakashPatel, the n90 work on att ? Nov 29 19:07:40 early october? Nov 29 19:07:41 Sept 19th Nov 29 19:07:44 [9:04pm] when you're lucky, yes Nov 29 19:07:44 n900* Nov 29 19:07:44 o.o Nov 29 19:07:45 tahts why Nov 29 19:07:46 haha Nov 29 19:08:08 Stskeeps: so, what black magic do i need for xml::parser? Nov 29 19:08:09 kynky: 3g doesnt work on AT&T, but I live in the middle of Missouri, so no worries about that anyway Nov 29 19:08:09 haha Nov 29 19:08:18 :/ Nov 29 19:09:13 If you order from amazon TODAY you'll probably get it at the end of december or early '10 haha Nov 29 19:10:11 * AakashPatel would rather pay an extra 50 bucks Nov 29 19:10:19 and get it this week >.< Nov 29 19:10:58 the archos stuff voids the warranty :S Nov 29 19:11:21 AakashPatel, i bet loads are on ebay now Nov 29 19:11:28 eww ebay Nov 29 19:11:49 javispedro, nice. Nov 29 19:11:51 AakashPatel, completely agree Nov 29 19:11:52 I wouldnt by this kind of product from ebay just yet lol Nov 29 19:12:18 :) Nov 29 19:13:37 timeless_mbp: not a perl guy sorry Nov 29 19:14:12 err Nov 29 19:14:18 what version of gtk do we have in maemo? Nov 29 19:14:24 Okay,if you are not gonna answer me,at least point me to some informations Nov 29 19:14:46 Google.com Nov 29 19:15:00 lol Nov 29 19:15:14 Plethora of info right there Nov 29 19:15:15 haha Nov 29 19:15:15 Um Nov 29 19:15:16 I meant Nov 29 19:15:20 Okay,enuff Nov 29 19:15:23 But what should i google? Nov 29 19:15:30 What are you trying to do? Nov 29 19:15:32 "Port os2008 to maemo5"? Nov 29 19:15:36 LuciusMare: the maemo5 UI is different Nov 29 19:15:40 Os2008 apps maemo 5 Nov 29 19:15:46 * javispedro still things the archos pctablet has something that looks cool :) Nov 29 19:15:47 ack Nov 29 19:15:51 btw, maemo is going qt instead of gtk right? Nov 29 19:15:52 so it would make sense to adjust the UI of the app Nov 29 19:15:55 mashiara: so code digging? :( Nov 29 19:16:01 archos tablet is bugridden ? Nov 29 19:16:05 not just recompiling Nov 29 19:16:06 ? Nov 29 19:16:08 just recompile it for maemo 5? Nov 29 19:16:13 LuciusMare: depends on the software Nov 29 19:16:19 bakarat: maemo 6 will be Qt Nov 29 19:16:24 from what I know Nov 29 19:16:24 :0 Nov 29 19:16:26 ah Nov 29 19:16:31 Will the n900 get maemo6? Nov 29 19:16:39 and maemo 6 will simply be an update away when it is relead ye? ;) Nov 29 19:16:40 or is that not known to anyone yet lol Nov 29 19:16:42 "probably" Nov 29 19:16:42 released* Nov 29 19:16:48 archos tablet is closed by default, so as academic as opening it up to devs is doesnt take away the fact i cant just give the fruits of my labour to friends with same devices Nov 29 19:16:49 LuciusMare: since the application menus for example are very different Nov 29 19:16:50 or am i wrong Nov 29 19:17:04 LuciusMare, get a dev env orking for maemo5 , then get sources for os2008 apps, then look at how source works, needs to be configured, do some building and testing , think there is a developers section on tmo Nov 29 19:17:06 I said archos PCtablet :P Nov 29 19:17:37 yeah the archos9 looks neat...not sure how much I'd use it though Nov 29 19:17:45 Hi Nov 29 19:17:47 and if its like the rest of their devices...have fun with support Nov 29 19:17:49 LuciusMare: so for example maemo-mapper with it's huge main menu and deep menu tree in general is not going to be usable without rethinking the menu structure Nov 29 19:17:59 bakarat: too early to guess.. it might not even happen, only nokia can say for sure Nov 29 19:18:08 mashiara, old style menus work Nov 29 19:18:09 LuciusMare: It will likely compile and run as-is though... Nov 29 19:18:19 lcuk: oh ? Nov 29 19:18:22 example: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/numptyphysics/ Nov 29 19:18:23 * lcuk has apps here using them Nov 29 19:18:24 didn't realize that... Nov 29 19:18:27 i think xchat still has them Nov 29 19:18:36 * timeless_mbp ponders Nov 29 19:18:39 my second bug of the week to #firefox they will start to hate me again Nov 29 19:18:40 the zenity build script checks for zenity Nov 29 19:18:42 that seems wrong Nov 29 19:18:52 :( timeless Nov 29 19:18:54 bootstrapping ? Nov 29 19:18:56 thats a bit recursive Nov 29 19:19:08 but entirely feasible Nov 29 19:19:17 * timeless_mbp doesn't see the point Nov 29 19:19:31 lots of language compilers are self building Nov 29 19:19:32 chicken or egg Nov 29 19:19:38 * lcuk loves the chichen n egg Nov 29 19:19:39 lol Nov 29 19:19:46 LuciusMare: AFAIRecall numptyphysics has already package in extras-testing at least Nov 29 19:20:09 hey b-man17 Nov 29 19:20:15 hello :) Nov 29 19:20:19 hi Nov 29 19:20:38 hello, javispedro Nov 29 19:21:35 LuciusMare: Sorry, must have been extras-devel where I think a saw it (I don't have that repo currently enabled on my device, nightly builds can be a bit of minefield...) Nov 29 19:22:28 yet another pm. at least this one is kind. Nov 29 19:22:52 LuciusMare: I see numptyphysics as available package in my scratchbox, so it's in extras-devel Nov 29 19:22:56 So,there are no "big" changes of the interface - i am faced only a problem that it wont look good if i wont rewrite the gui? Nov 29 19:23:06 i mean Nov 29 19:23:09 then port things Nov 29 19:23:13 the same way people have been doing Nov 29 19:23:14 no big changes in 2008>maemo5 Nov 29 19:23:23 i cant really code Nov 29 19:23:24 ppl should ask in channel anyway, more ppl can respond/riducule/help then Nov 29 19:23:47 * timeless_mbp grumbles Nov 29 19:23:52 Hey has anyone heard anything about the status of a possible logmein port to maemo5? Nov 29 19:23:56 LuciusMare, i guess most important thing to figure out, is how to recover ifthings go wrong Nov 29 19:24:05 kynky: O_o Nov 29 19:24:06 unable to get login information for username "maemo" at /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etc/lib/gpkg/controllib.pl Nov 29 19:24:14 what can go wrong...? Nov 29 19:24:30 i cant really code Nov 29 19:24:34 everything. Nov 29 19:24:42 you can brick your device, making it unable to boot, etc. Nov 29 19:24:42 um Nov 29 19:24:43 :) Nov 29 19:24:50 Oh Nov 29 19:24:55 nothing a reflash won't solve Nov 29 19:25:03 mashiara, not true Nov 29 19:25:09 * LuciusMare switched from reading reviews of n900 to videos of android Nov 29 19:25:16 reflash cant charge battey Nov 29 19:25:31 kynky: no, but yout n810 can Nov 29 19:25:44 * timeless_mbp winks @Pavlov Nov 29 19:25:50 i bought a battery charger for bl-5j for £2.50 Nov 29 19:25:50 Maemo and Android FTL! KDE ftw! XD Nov 29 19:25:53 * lcuk has done some pretty drgrading stuff to his n810 and now n900 and not managed to so far stop it being flashable Nov 29 19:26:02 are you guys doing REALLY perverted things to them? Nov 29 19:26:40 can you always reflash as long as you got battery ? Nov 29 19:26:43 ha, a basic battery charger for it...not a bad idea... Nov 29 19:26:44 Pockejte,vzdyt jde jen o instalaci programu,zadny velky zasahy do systemu... Nov 29 19:26:47 Er Nov 29 19:27:02 * LuciusMare turns the language switch to english Nov 29 19:27:05 lcuk: as long as you don't trash the bootloader (u-boot), you should be safe Nov 29 19:27:17 * lcuk shrugs Nov 29 19:27:20 Wait,its just an installation of a program,no big changes in the system Nov 29 19:27:22 what version of zenity do you guys have? Nov 29 19:27:27 lcuk: even after trashing u-boot, the firmware flasher should be able to restore it Nov 29 19:27:42 nokia devices doesn't use u-boot. Nov 29 19:27:48 they use NOLO and some additional bootloader Nov 29 19:27:55 even N900 doesn't? Nov 29 19:28:03 i thought it did Nov 29 19:28:06 N900 uses NOLO Nov 29 19:28:08 then arachnist i reaffirm my question - has anyone actually done something in software to make device bricked? Nov 29 19:28:08 afaik Nov 29 19:28:19 lcuk: it's pretty easy to really brick it but you have to do it intentionally Nov 29 19:28:25 o_O Nov 29 19:28:26 LuciusMare, if your program did like a dd of /dev/random to flesystem, thas bad, or similar, or did a sudo gainrot , then rm -rf /*.* Nov 29 19:28:44 stskeeps yikes Nov 29 19:28:49 lcuk: just overwrite NOLO Nov 29 19:28:59 kynky: I dont really expect the used applications to do this Nov 29 19:29:22 nobody ever expects the spanish inquisistion Nov 29 19:29:34 er Nov 29 19:29:40 but install enough non-optified apps then ..... Nov 29 19:29:41 hey it's tekojo! Nov 29 19:29:50 hi! Nov 29 19:29:51 I am not installing applications in python Nov 29 19:29:51 Holy Inquisition ftw! Nov 29 19:30:05 hey tekojo \o Nov 29 19:30:15 evening lcuk! Nov 29 19:30:30 * lcuk looks, yup its dark here too! Nov 29 19:30:33 *burp* Nov 29 19:30:38 * mashiara has been compiling kernels and flashing kernels most of the day, all of them refused to boot... Nov 29 19:30:46 * lcuk nudges Myrtti Nov 29 19:30:49 that smelt bad Nov 29 19:31:02 sorry, a pot of Chunky Monkey ice cream Nov 29 19:31:09 mashiara you are in the right place :-) Nov 29 19:31:14 with real monkey chunks? Nov 29 19:31:18 lcuk, dont worrk, just take a deep breath and elax Nov 29 19:31:19 lcuk: yeah Nov 29 19:31:22 relax* Nov 29 19:31:39 * lcuk elaxes Nov 29 19:31:47 lol Nov 29 19:31:59 * LuciusMare smells something bad Nov 29 19:32:02 tekojo: yeah, but it's getting kinda late, and recompile takes forever even though I have given 2 cores to the Parallels VM Nov 29 19:32:14 * RST38h moos at Myrtti Nov 29 19:32:14 mashiara, do you know the packages/repostiry page on m.o ? Nov 29 19:32:19 20:29 < kynky> but install enough non-optified apps then ..... Nov 29 19:32:25 What does it mean? Nov 29 19:32:26 heya tekojo, too Nov 29 19:32:30 RST38h: moo-o Nov 29 19:32:30 mashiara: what device? Nov 29 19:32:31 and what module are you trying to add? Nov 29 19:32:45 evening lardman Nov 29 19:32:56 just in time, did you bring a few bottles of wine? Nov 29 19:32:58 stskeeps: N900 tekojo: basically conntrack, iptables and the lot... Nov 29 19:33:21 can i install irc server on my n900 Nov 29 19:33:27 apt-get source kernel Nov 29 19:33:36 mashiara: 42-11 and kernel_2.6.28-20094102.3+0m5.dsc ? Nov 29 19:33:37 hi lcuk Nov 29 19:33:38 I cannot find it with ogg-support installed, flac metadata is supposed to be available in tracker/media player Nov 29 19:33:43 uhhuh. Nov 29 19:33:44 yeah, got some wine on the go :) Nov 29 19:33:48 hey cleary :) Nov 29 19:33:58 LuciusMare, if you install non-optifed apps , then they use lots of precious space where your essential apps are stored, there is not a lot of room, if this space fills up, you can have a non bootable device potentially, if you then run out of battery, then potentialy its kinda bricked Nov 29 19:34:02 lcuk: i installed a irc server in a ar7 router once, so yeah, shouldn't be too difficult Nov 29 19:34:07 cool Nov 29 19:34:22 stskeeps: can't remember offhand, summit device flashed with latest Fiasco, and yes that kernel Nov 29 19:34:23 ill just stick with freenode for now until it really pees me off Nov 29 19:34:31 irc.freenode.org running on a n900 Nov 29 19:34:34 considering it had 2mb flash and 8mb ram Nov 29 19:35:03 oof. Candy fail Nov 29 19:35:22 mashiara: if conntrack/iptables are modules, don't bother using zImage, just use .ko's directly Nov 29 19:35:26 kynky: how come that i can brick my phone if running outta battery? Nov 29 19:35:44 stskeeps: been there, tried that... couldn't get workable modules compiled Nov 29 19:35:53 mashiara: using FREMANTLE_ARMEL? Nov 29 19:35:58 brb Nov 29 19:35:59 stskeep: yes Nov 29 19:36:08 mashiara: that's rather weird Nov 29 19:36:26 stskeeps: I think so too Nov 29 19:36:27 now that there's a final firmware release, do we have matching kernel source? Nov 29 19:36:32 ali1234: AFAIK Nov 29 19:36:34 LuciusMare, its not techncally bricked, but if you fill up rootso no space left on device , then run out of battery, device cant boot properly, then if it cant boot, it cant charge Nov 29 19:36:36 Mozillion: no proper flac tag support yet with ogg-support 1.0.5 Nov 29 19:36:55 kulve: just saw your bug report.. overlooked.. thanks Nov 29 19:36:59 cool Nov 29 19:37:28 mashiara: and with dpkg-buildpackage -b of apt-get source kernel and all that jazz? Nov 29 19:37:29 kulve: how does this work on the desktop atm then? in Rhythmbox for example? Nov 29 19:37:37 kynky, nasty. can it be flashed still, somehow? Nov 29 19:37:52 stskeeps: yes, though I added a patch to the configure phase to enable the modules Nov 29 19:37:54 mikhas: somehow, yeah :) Nov 29 19:38:16 mikhas, yeah, just charge battery up, and reflash, i bought a battery charger for £2.50 Nov 29 19:38:19 mashiara: any specific errors when inserting modules? Nov 29 19:38:19 hi everyone Nov 29 19:38:30 I just watched New Moon Nov 29 19:38:39 I'm feeling the teen angst now Nov 29 19:38:41 lardman: my condolences Nov 29 19:38:45 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6373 - No one seem to care! Nov 29 19:38:46 Bug 6373: Fatal error on maemo.org > packages > Repository QA queue Nov 29 19:38:51 Mozillion: playbin2 (the gst element) supports tags, e.g. hildon-desktop audio widget gets tags from there, but Tracker uses tagreadbin and it uses only parsers to get the tags. And flac and vorbis tags are in the bitstream, not in the container, so the parser doesn't get them Nov 29 19:38:54 indeed, was painful, but there was a nice 911 Turbo and some eye candy Nov 29 19:38:58 mikhas , just goto google.com goto shoppng tb at top , type "bl-5j charger" Nov 29 19:38:58 stskeeps: symbol version mismatch on all symbols, and some missing symbols even for conntrack which should not depend on anything but the kernel itself AFAIRecall Nov 29 19:39:07 mashiara: hmm Nov 29 19:39:12 Venomrush it's Sunday afternoon, hard to find people right now Nov 29 19:39:29 Mozillion: but that's being worked on and hopefully we'll get it working in n900 at some point as well Nov 29 19:39:30 Venomrush: when X-Fade is back from holidays, everything will be better :P Nov 29 19:39:37 kulve: ah, so no workaround for now then Nov 29 19:39:43 Mozillion: not yet Nov 29 19:39:52 all my flacs are put in (unknown artist)/(unknown album) it's becoming a mess ;) Nov 29 19:40:04 any good mpd clients in the works for n900 ? Nov 29 19:40:06 it's been like that for several days Nov 29 19:40:11 don't know why no one noticed it Nov 29 19:40:14 kynky, make a bug report @ bugs.maemo.org, how to reproduce and your workaround? Nov 29 19:40:22 on IRC, this knowledge is lost Nov 29 19:40:23 Mozillion: I'm not sure but it looks like the tags are got after one playback, so maybe you get them, if you play them all once with the media player ;) Nov 29 19:40:23 Venomrush let me guess since Friday about this time Nov 29 19:40:38 kulve: no, sorry Nov 29 19:40:46 that doesn't seem to work for me Nov 29 19:40:47 mikhas, i got this knowledge from a lot of threads on tmo , thought it was well known Nov 29 19:41:06 oh, well tmo ... Nov 29 19:41:25 Mozillion: ok. I've tried flacs only briefly, so maybe I had something else going on. There's too many ways to do flacs. Flac in ogg, native flac, tags in id3, etc.. Nov 29 19:41:31 * lardman ponders porting mbarcode to use Qt Nov 29 19:41:45 mashiara: grab a full build log and i might be able to point out some weirdnesses. i've done rather rude things to fremantle kernel but it has never done that to me. Nov 29 19:42:33 yeah Nov 29 19:44:02 * Jaffa offlines for holidays Nov 29 19:44:39 haha cool and oops wrong chan. Nov 29 19:44:53 TOPIC -MAEMO-Freq=GSM 1800,GSM 1900,GSM 850,GSM 900,WCDMA 1700,WCDMA 2100,WCDMA 900 ,Data Bearers -DualTransferMode (MSC 11),EDGE Class A,GPRS Class A,HSDPA[2],HSUPA[3],WCDMA Nov 29 19:44:54 jaffa have a great holiday Nov 29 19:45:13 stroke: 139~86,132~84,117~84,102~84,92~91,88~102,95~116,107~128,127~132,144~122,152~106,146~92,132~85,132~85 Nov 29 19:45:20 lcuktest, for our benefit ? :) Nov 29 19:45:40 yeah oops best run ;) Nov 29 19:45:42 lcuktest: what did you callme? Nov 29 19:45:43 :P Nov 29 19:45:57 stroke: 138~211,138~211,137~211,133~211,131~213,130~218,130~223,132~226,137~226,143~222,145~215,145~210,145~210 Nov 29 19:45:58 stroke: 179~216,179~216,179~213,177~213,173~216,170~221,170~223,173~226,178~225,182~222,182~217,182~217 Nov 29 19:45:58 stroke: 175~260,175~260,173~265,162~271,150~274,142~276,137~276,133~272,133~262,133~262 Nov 29 19:46:07 you work it out for yourself :p Nov 29 19:46:21 oi, take that 137~211 away Nov 29 19:46:22 :P Nov 29 19:46:22 ;) Nov 29 19:46:57 well i sorted out the chan stuff Nov 29 19:47:05 and it looks up headshots automatically now from user nicks Nov 29 19:47:11 so jaffa headshot came up from maemo.org Nov 29 19:47:17 you're on your way to become the next MS Comic CHat? Nov 29 19:47:22 indeed Nov 29 19:47:50 isnt every1 still using ms comicchat ? Nov 29 19:47:55 but this weekend has been the first weekend ive had to hack since just before the summit Nov 29 19:48:08 hmm is there anyway to change the size of /dev/mmcb1k0p2 ? Nov 29 19:48:16 why is it only 2gb? Nov 29 19:48:49 the 1 millon dollar question ... Nov 29 19:49:12 cos the rest of the space is taken up with media Nov 29 19:49:18 while the /dev/mmcb1k0p1 got 27gb Nov 29 19:49:21 imagine maemo5 w/ maemo-optify ... Nov 29 19:49:29 w/o* Nov 29 19:49:55 for years i lived with <1gb medi, now i find myself restricted iwth 31gb left Nov 29 19:50:02 =) Nov 29 19:50:30 Venomrush, the far bigger problem, IMHO, is that the vfat partition tends to corrupt quickly Nov 29 19:50:47 try to copy big files etc (~2-4GB) Nov 29 19:50:47 vfat partition? Nov 29 19:50:51 which one is that Nov 29 19:50:52 i guess anything is possible, can you delete the /dev/mmcb1k0p1 , do an e2resize on /dev/mmcb1k0p2 , then recreate /dev/mmcb1k0p1 ? Nov 29 19:50:55 well yes, that big one Nov 29 19:51:04 (sorry still noob) Nov 29 19:51:28 hmm, does Firefox run all of its tabs and windows in the same process Nov 29 19:51:35 is veeeeeryyyyy slow with lots open Nov 29 19:51:51 lardman, its not chrome or ie8 :) Nov 29 19:51:55 lardman, its only slow with flash or other addins running Nov 29 19:52:14 * Stskeeps manages to tame LyX Nov 29 19:52:21 well I think it's running using the chrome renderer actually Nov 29 19:52:26 luckily you can have xpi for flashblock and adblock plus etc Nov 29 19:52:31 and chrome seems faster on WinXP than FF fwiw Nov 29 19:53:28 * lcuk keeps being reminded flashblock needs fixing Nov 29 19:53:31 lardman, chrome uses webkit , but ff 3.5 ain too bad , but crome has process per tab, and even a task/tab manager Nov 29 19:54:09 did no one forked a webkitted FF yet? Nov 29 19:54:42 mikhas: I suspect that would be too much effort Nov 29 19:54:47 mikhas, might as well build chromium rather than what you suggested , xulrunner is well entrenced Nov 29 19:54:50 certainly is Nov 29 19:55:22 no, I dont want a google-based browser, thank Nov 29 19:55:23 s Nov 29 19:55:27 you know what xul is, right? Nov 29 19:55:38 I'll stick with my beloved epiphany Nov 29 19:55:43 lol Nov 29 19:55:44 i don't think it would be particularly easy to fix it to use webkit Nov 29 19:56:16 well, do you really have to rip out XUL if you want to replace gecko? Nov 29 19:56:26 Stskeeps: taming LyX is an ability that I would like to have :) Nov 29 19:56:34 webkit, xulrunner, khtml ,gtkhtml , not many options for renderers i thought Nov 29 19:56:45 javispedro: used it already in highschool but i finally managed to tame figures :P Nov 29 19:56:49 khtml = webkit Nov 29 19:56:58 microlith, != Nov 29 19:57:00 wasn't khtml deprecated, anyway? Nov 29 19:57:03 * javispedro has just tamed latin1 charset in latex :P Nov 29 19:57:09 so.. :P Nov 29 19:57:16 javispedro, gedit has nice latex plugins Nov 29 19:57:17 microlith, nope, it's used in konqueror Nov 29 19:57:26 mikhas: there is no browser, only xul. if you take out gecko, there'd be literally nothing left. simply put, the UI of firefox is rendered by gecko... Nov 29 19:57:31 slonopotamus: I thought konq was migrated to webkit Nov 29 19:57:51 microlith, nope again :) Nov 29 19:57:54 ali1234: was that a subtle reference? Nov 29 19:58:23 that's bad design if XUL depends on the renderer implementation, and not just API .. but I havent looked at FF in ages, so I'll better shut up =) Nov 29 19:58:55 microlith: yes, but not by me Nov 29 19:59:18 microlith: http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul Nov 29 19:59:30 firefox to xulrunner is like ie to mshtml , xulruner was seperated because mozilla want a lot of apps to use xulrunner engine, like songbird etc etc , its rather really handy Nov 29 19:59:31 heh Nov 29 20:00:32 mikhas: there's a browser called arora - qt/webkit based, and looks almost exactly like firefox. i prefer it to epiphany, even though i prefer gnome to kde Nov 29 20:00:38 XUL still smells kind of NIH >=) Nov 29 20:01:06 yo Nov 29 20:01:20 epiphany has a webkit port already Nov 29 20:01:32 yeah but epiphany interface is ugly Nov 29 20:01:43 oh well, opinions =) Nov 29 20:02:04 the default UI configuration is certainly nothing I would use Nov 29 20:02:06 mozilla basically see xul apps as non platform specific, xulrunne has been ported to many platforms , its kinda lie a jvm, in the way , write once run anywhere Nov 29 20:02:13 just saying, if you want something that looks exactly like ff but with webkit, arora is what you want. sometimes i forget which one i'm using, that's how similar it is Nov 29 20:02:23 nice Nov 29 20:03:13 Venomrush the extras-testing page is ok again, thanks to mashiara Nov 29 20:03:16 mikhas: thanks for the plugin Nov 29 20:04:16 javispedro, the plugin even handles multi-file latex documents Nov 29 20:04:43 ouch Nov 29 20:04:44 it will asks for the main document if you open an included file Nov 29 20:04:49 except GError as s: Nov 29 20:04:49 ^ Nov 29 20:04:49 SyntaxError: invalid syntax Nov 29 20:04:57 I guess it requires newer python :( Nov 29 20:05:02 oh Nov 29 20:05:09 now that's bad Nov 29 20:05:24 can you hack the plugin quickly? Nov 29 20:05:27 and to derail the discussion while waiting for the dpkg-buildpacke on the kernel: http://www.qaiku.com/home/rambo/show/1dedcdc5f8c3f68dcdc11de93d51f3f993bf580f580/ Nov 29 20:05:52 Mikhas: I would if I know what's changed in python :P Nov 29 20:05:58 right Nov 29 20:06:24 I dont know either, sadly. I thought changes would only come with 3.0? Nov 29 20:06:28 well, since its just printing the exception, here goes crazy bug fixing Nov 29 20:06:31 (N900 camera and emailed via sharing service so it's kinda in topic) Nov 29 20:06:34 s/crazy/kamikaze Nov 29 20:06:40 hehe Nov 29 20:06:56 exceptions? let's pretend we didnt see any Nov 29 20:07:07 what could possibly go wrong! Nov 29 20:07:42 mikhas, if you were irc'ing from your phone, then by your argument, you could say anything Nov 29 20:07:59 i meant to say mid, not phone Nov 29 20:08:05 ImportError: No module named multiprocessing Nov 29 20:08:08 * javispedro bangs head Nov 29 20:08:13 seems it comes with 2.6 Nov 29 20:08:13 =( Nov 29 20:08:16 well, too bad :( Nov 29 20:08:19 yeah Nov 29 20:09:03 Is there Fring for maemo? Nov 29 20:09:07 or somethign? Nov 29 20:09:15 I heard about something of the sort but i forgot Nov 29 20:09:18 pidgin ftw Nov 29 20:09:22 * AakashPatel wants video skyping Nov 29 20:09:45 kynky: now does pidgin support video chatting ;) Nov 29 20:10:00 AakashPatel yep, although I don't see the point as there is very nice integrated support for skype etc. Nov 29 20:10:08 pidgin? Nov 29 20:10:12 huh? Nov 29 20:10:18 We can videochat out of the box? Nov 29 20:10:25 who needs pidgin when you have conversations? Nov 29 20:10:45 AakashPatel, if you can live with skype or google, yes Nov 29 20:11:07 arachnist, ive only had the n900 for a few days :) gimme a break Nov 29 20:11:27 kalikiana: there are a bunch of plugins to add other protocols to conversations Nov 29 20:11:44 I didnt think skype on maemo had video chat :/ Nov 29 20:11:48 i have installed butterfly, but it doesnt lways render names yet Nov 29 20:11:50 only 'net calls Nov 29 20:11:52 AakashPatel hmm fring has video chat? I didn't know that Nov 29 20:11:52 where you can replace "bunch" with Nov 29 20:11:56 where you can replace "bunch" with "haze" Nov 29 20:12:13 pillar, was a big announcement by fring a few dats ago abot video chat Nov 29 20:12:16 because that one provides support for everything pidgin/libpurple has Nov 29 20:12:45 kynky ok, I've been out of the loop for some days so that explains it Nov 29 20:13:05 kynky, but then, why do you need fring at all? Nov 29 20:13:18 kalikiana, i never said i did Nov 29 20:13:23 kynky: don't i have freaking 32GB on N900? Nov 29 20:13:30 eh Nov 29 20:13:39 i didn't notice the conversation rolled so far Nov 29 20:13:39 with the extendable phone app, to be honest, I fail to see why either pidgin or fring was ported Nov 29 20:13:57 If i fill the root fs - which is 32gb? Nov 29 20:14:03 Or is it separated differently? Nov 29 20:14:08 LuciusMare, not for apps inastalled to phone, you have small amount for root, 2GB for /opt , and i think 27GB for fat32 for media files etc Nov 29 20:14:09 LuciusMare, 32gb is /home, not root Nov 29 20:14:35 you're all wrong :P Nov 29 20:14:39 oh Nov 29 20:15:04 can i repartition it? :) Nov 29 20:15:22 if you are bored, surely you can do that Nov 29 20:15:23 root is 256mb of fast flash, /home is 1gb of the 32gb internal mmc, /home/user/MyDocs is the rest of the 32gb Nov 29 20:15:32 head -> desk Nov 29 20:15:41 arachnist, so you were saying , something better than butterfly exists ? Nov 29 20:15:59 /home is 2G according to df -h Nov 29 20:16:05 ali1234, how much for /opt / Nov 29 20:16:10 holy carp Nov 29 20:16:13 is 256 mb? Nov 29 20:16:16 er Nov 29 20:16:18 /opt -> /home/opt/ Nov 29 20:16:20 / is 256 mb? Nov 29 20:16:23 kynky: /opt on the same part as /home Nov 29 20:16:28 kynky: dunno if better Nov 29 20:16:52 hmm yeah, /home is 2gb Nov 29 20:17:01 LuciusMare: the root FS on on much faster memory than the standard flash used for /home and /home/useR/MyDocs Nov 29 20:17:03 yeah ws looking for 2gb thing Nov 29 20:17:30 ali1234, so i wasnt wrong then :) Nov 29 20:17:46 then it seems i don't have much space to use for installing apps Nov 29 20:17:47 yeah Nov 29 20:18:02 LuciusMare, thats why apps need to be optified Nov 29 20:18:05 you have 2gb, use /opt Nov 29 20:18:35 LuciusMare, hence why i was saying stuff about using extras-devel stuff earlier, they not all optified Nov 29 20:18:52 * LuciusMare shakes his head Nov 29 20:19:05 2gb does not seems so much Nov 29 20:19:21 you have to consider that up so far we used to have 256 MiB. Nov 29 20:19:22 how many "average-sized" apps fit there? Nov 29 20:19:27 less than that. Nov 29 20:19:30 I mean,optified average-sized apps Nov 29 20:19:33 optified means, bbasically for example moving stuff originally in /usr/ to /opt/ to save spae, but theat very basic way of saying it Nov 29 20:19:33 we used to have around 160MiB Nov 29 20:19:46 O_o Nov 29 20:19:51 I guess Wesnoth etc that have a ton of graphics and audio could be modified to store the big resource files under Mydocs Nov 29 20:20:07 yeah Nov 29 20:20:12 but that's not your average app :) Nov 29 20:20:19 How can i try out some pyqt stuff with scratchbox... Nov 29 20:20:38 iirc pyside was uploaded to extras-devel, pyqt is? Nov 29 20:20:38 MyDocs is mounted noexec :) Nov 29 20:20:39 mashiara: that actually...cracked me up about it - if i have only 256mib- or 2gb,whatsoever,how did they managed to run wesnoth - or quake on it? Nov 29 20:20:46 ali1234: same as cards on n810.. Nov 29 20:21:05 anyone has Crash Reporter on their N900? Nov 29 20:21:12 luciusmare: I don't think the quake engine and the first shareware level take that much space Nov 29 20:21:14 the guy behind linux-live-tools ha come up with a way of reprensenting a linux file system directly on fat partitions, as fat doesnt support softlinks, attributes etc Nov 29 20:21:18 have you noticed, when you reboot the device, it generates a crash report?? Nov 29 20:21:19 ali1234, isnt that a very sane choice? Nov 29 20:21:25 yes Nov 29 20:21:31 kynky: uh, umsdos :) Nov 29 20:21:34 ok =) Nov 29 20:21:40 luciusmare: and simplest way to "optify" is to ./configure --prefix=/opt/ Nov 29 20:22:02 actually, the simplest way to optify is to run maemo-optify Nov 29 20:22:14 javispedro, ++ Nov 29 20:22:28 luciusmare: for wesnoth, I haven't tried it on my N900, on N810 had to setup dual-boot to boot from the internal memory card to get enough space for the files... Nov 29 20:22:31 i disagree, using maemo-optify means learning another tool Nov 29 20:22:41 tool? it's a damn script. Nov 29 20:22:41 i already know how to use configure, so that way is easier for me Nov 29 20:22:51 lol Nov 29 20:23:07 and then you have to create all the symlinks and put the needed files in the rootfs Nov 29 20:23:20 luciusmare: I also fear for my productivity if I get hooked on wednoth again... Nov 29 20:23:31 and while you might know how to use configure, the guy who wrote the autoconf file might not. Nov 29 20:23:44 LuciusMare, hope we been helpful Nov 29 20:23:47 javispedro, so mean =) Nov 29 20:23:52 hmm Nov 29 20:24:12 symlinks arn't technically required, i can optify a package without using a single symlink :P Nov 29 20:24:33 ali1234: "i-am-ruby"-like packages? Nov 29 20:24:37 aka do nothing. Nov 29 20:24:40 either way maemo-optifier is quite handy Nov 29 20:24:40 javispedro: no, any package Nov 29 20:24:45 Is the edge of the n900 metal? Nov 29 20:24:49 ali1234: how are you putting stuff on the menu? Nov 29 20:24:52 around the screen part Nov 29 20:25:07 AakashPatel, it feels like it Nov 29 20:25:17 rest is plastic Nov 29 20:25:20 ah Nov 29 20:25:26 javispedro: drop the .desktop file into the menu directory, have it reference a script in /opt by absolute path which sets up the environment to make the package work without symlinks Nov 29 20:25:41 so, drop the .desktop file _outside_ /opt Nov 29 20:25:58 hello Nov 29 20:25:58 javispedro: correct. that's the *only* file you need outside opt Nov 29 20:26:05 and does not involve any symlinks Nov 29 20:26:09 and the d-bus service file Nov 29 20:26:14 for osso apps at least Nov 29 20:26:19 :) Nov 29 20:26:22 perhaps for weird stuff like that Nov 29 20:26:27 for normal apps you don't need dbus Nov 29 20:26:42 ali1234, normal apps do launch via dbus ;) Nov 29 20:26:46 exactly Nov 29 20:26:49 on maemo at least. Nov 29 20:26:59 funny, i didn't have any trouble launching my app this way? Nov 29 20:27:01 you will have a hard time running a qt app correctly *without* dbus actually Nov 29 20:27:12 one thing that annoys me about tmo, is all the useless posts s that ppl can get a high post count Nov 29 20:27:17 I havent found a way to set the style and everything else needed from the cmd line yet Nov 29 20:27:38 hmm simple qt desktop widget in extras-devel is 4,9mb .. quite big for that description :) Nov 29 20:27:38 im interested about porting the tex system to fremantle, i have some dev exp but not cross compiling. do i need to change gcc ouput to get it to compile to ARM? Nov 29 20:27:53 pillar, it's the example + deps Nov 29 20:27:57 roundyz: scratchbox should hide most of that for you Nov 29 20:27:59 ali1234, the launcher uses dbus, quite simply. unless of course you have a command line app Nov 29 20:28:08 I guess it needs to fetch some libqt packages Nov 29 20:28:17 mikhas oh okay, that explains it Nov 29 20:28:23 roundyz: "the maemo sdk", I mean, Nov 29 20:28:25 . Nov 29 20:28:30 roundyz, think for most simple way, some1 has created a virtual image you can do dev in, its a readymade dev env Nov 29 20:28:31 roundyz: you do not want to port TeX to Maemo Nov 29 20:28:32 all i did was put the app and all deps into /opt/myapp, make a script that sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH and runs the exe, and then reference it directly from the .desktop file. it launched fine from the menu. it isn't a command line app Nov 29 20:28:32 I didn't know it is smart enough to calculate those as well Nov 29 20:28:44 roundyz: It will work, but the performance is going to be dismal Nov 29 20:29:10 ali1234: sdl app? Nov 29 20:29:12 ali1234, but then single instance for example breaks Nov 29 20:29:13 RST38h: have you tried? Nov 29 20:29:19 and you can't use mime Nov 29 20:29:22 roundyz: No, but why should I? Nov 29 20:29:27 javispedro: EGL Nov 29 20:29:31 bare x11 then. Nov 29 20:29:33 yep Nov 29 20:29:35 normal. Nov 29 20:29:38 yeah Nov 29 20:29:41 wanted to known what you know. Nov 29 20:29:43 try gtk or qt app. Nov 29 20:29:46 lardman|gone: firefox 4 should hopefully have multi process Nov 29 20:29:48 roundyz: I know that TeX is doing a lot of computations, using a lot of memory and making lots of disk IO Nov 29 20:29:54 nah, i'd rather not write a game in gtk Nov 29 20:29:59 roundyz: Maemo is short on all three Nov 29 20:30:00 kynky: fwiw, technically chrome doesn't use process per tab Nov 29 20:30:03 it uses process per domain Nov 29 20:30:13 ali1234: you'll want if you stay on this platform for more than a few months Nov 29 20:30:27 i doubt it actually Nov 29 20:30:28 ff4 could be anytime, due to ff crazy number jumping versioning Nov 29 20:30:29 valid points RST38h Nov 29 20:30:44 timeless_mbp, thx =) Nov 29 20:30:47 i'm not really bothered about writing spiffy new apps nobody has done before Nov 29 20:30:52 roundyz: You want to do something useful, try porting Vulture's Eye Nov 29 20:31:15 mikhas: you clearly haven't seen the Qt UI bulider Nov 29 20:31:17 It is based on Nethack, adds nice 3D UI, uses SDL (supported in Maemo) Nov 29 20:31:21 s/bulider/builder/ Nov 29 20:31:22 timeless_mbp meant: mikhas: you clearly haven't seen the Qt UI builder Nov 29 20:31:29 mikhas: which is yet another XML UI dialect Nov 29 20:31:39 claiming XUL is a NIH is kinda odd Nov 29 20:31:43 RST38h: what is Vultures eye? Nov 29 20:31:46 sure VB and Delphi had ui builders Nov 29 20:31:53 but at least originally neither of them were XML Nov 29 20:31:59 timeless, I have? Nov 29 20:32:04 roundyz: 3D Netahack Nov 29 20:32:07 nethack sorry Nov 29 20:32:12 and I also know about gtk builder =p Nov 29 20:32:14 and please note that Qt/DUI are very much XML+CSS style based systems Nov 29 20:32:20 timeless: code generated by them was messy already. I mean, you can mess without xml ;) Nov 29 20:32:24 xml is just a format, something imho that is overhyped Nov 29 20:32:24 so to complain about XUL is kinda stupid Nov 29 20:33:39 i think what he wants is a standardized was of describing a UI in XML, so that XUL can be rendered in QT, and vice versa Nov 29 20:33:42 now there is yaml, and probably other stuff too Nov 29 20:33:56 well, I like UI XML files that help me writing code. Both with Qt and GTK I can instantiate widgets *from* an XML file. That doesnt mean my UI runs *on* a XML file. Nov 29 20:34:00 RST38h: dont really have any 3d experience. Nov 29 20:34:26 roundyz: no problem there, it is not real 3d, it is not using opengl, and best of all you only need to port it Nov 29 20:34:26 it's not 3d, just isometric Nov 29 20:35:03 roundyz: but a proper VE port to Maemo5 is gonna give you instant credibility with the folks Nov 29 20:35:17 stkeeps: http://pastebin.com/m490060a9 Nov 29 20:36:07 RST38h: im not seeking credibility, but thanks for the pointer. Nov 29 20:36:39 (glade is the gtk one) Nov 29 20:36:48 mikhas: tomato, tomato Nov 29 20:36:59 with glade and friends you actually instantiate the ui with the file Nov 29 20:37:09 the only other part is who handles events and event looping Nov 29 20:37:14 stskeeps: and http://pastebin.com/m4ed84b7 Nov 29 20:37:20 by the time you move to signal-slots Nov 29 20:37:29 and Qt-Python or Qt-Perl Nov 29 20:37:36 you're at the point where the distinction is minimal Nov 29 20:37:42 * javispedro prefers ui tools to generate code. if it's ugly either way, why not just let it be whatever's nearest to machine code? Nov 29 20:37:56 javispedro: um Nov 29 20:38:01 i prefer open source Nov 29 20:38:07 xml is more open source than .a files Nov 29 20:38:21 and parsing code is more difficult, ok Nov 29 20:38:31 but even then, the resulting binary should ship with code, not xml files Nov 29 20:38:57 lardman: You recently upgraded qemu in your scratchbox, right? Nov 29 20:39:11 javispedro: why? Nov 29 20:39:27 would you like us to ship prelinked .so files that don't work well on your system? Nov 29 20:39:34 I part with javispedro here Nov 29 20:39:52 xml is nice if you want to edit by hand, it can be compresed a lot, cos of ts texty nature, so raw xml can be slower to parse Nov 29 20:40:22 kynky: slower to parse than what? Nov 29 20:40:31 * RST38h finds ui tools useless Nov 29 20:40:44 just because the encoding is xml doesn't mean the transport layer needs to use it Nov 29 20:40:48 something compiled to bytecode ? Nov 29 20:40:50 timeless: I mean that the end user binary shouldn't have separate xml files. Source tarballs can have the UI definition in whatever formats they wish (even Visio diagrams =) ) Nov 29 20:40:54 and it doesn't mean that the system can't cache a compiled version Nov 29 20:41:02 Any other kernel hackers than stskeeps around ? he seems to have gone way (not that I blame him) Nov 29 20:41:15 javispedro: you'd prefer for us never to ship our sources to our ui apps? Nov 29 20:41:21 good to hear, i'll let management know tomorrow Nov 29 20:41:37 timeless: end user! end user! Nov 29 20:42:12 it all depends on what the developer chooses todo :) Nov 29 20:42:15 * suihkulokki .oO( XML is so 2000's - in 2010's everything will be encapsulated as JSON ) Nov 29 20:42:25 noooo!! Nov 29 20:42:30 * RST38h votes for .ini files Nov 29 20:42:42 csv ftw lol Nov 29 20:42:48 .ini files don't really scale Nov 29 20:42:55 there's a reason ms replaced them w/ .reg Nov 29 20:42:57 neither does XML Nov 29 20:43:19 sqlite binary database files =) Nov 29 20:43:30 and even that doesn't scale well, but hey :) Nov 29 20:43:37 at least it does a bit better Nov 29 20:43:45 gconf... Nov 29 20:43:49 haha, yeah, tell that to my firefox Nov 29 20:43:49 yea right and then you won't be able to figure out why your app is so slow and fails all the time Nov 29 20:43:49 timeless, gnome copied ms idea of .reg , but linux still uses /etc , so thats really bad ? Nov 29 20:44:08 kynky: gnome managed to mess up .reg Nov 29 20:44:10 which is impressive Nov 29 20:44:16 (And maemo did it one worse) Nov 29 20:44:59 * RST38h ordered the invisibleshield. Now, just need a case. Nov 29 20:45:29 RST38h, ordered a case from amazon, cos it was alright, not ordering screen protecter this time Nov 29 20:46:24 * javispedro is still thinking in the irony of shipping the ui definitions of an application in a sqlite database. Nov 29 20:46:47 1 of AAJ Trading Black Leather Vertical Flip Carry Case Cover Pouch For Nokia N900, £5.99 , from amazon.co.uk Nov 29 20:47:00 javispedro: do i want to know who does that? Nov 29 20:47:00 you mean, store a hierarchical structure in a relational model? Nov 29 20:47:07 resource fork! Nov 29 20:47:43 palmos :) Nov 29 20:47:48 oh yeah Nov 29 20:47:51 but that was inspired in the macos resource forks, so... Nov 29 20:48:17 kynky: url? Nov 29 20:48:29 jaem: ping Nov 29 20:48:32 GeneralAntilles: ping Nov 29 20:48:35 javispedro: ping Nov 29 20:48:42 i liked the idea of data being stored in Resource Description Framework (RDF) (triples) Nov 29 20:48:47 javispedro doesn't have an n900, remember that. Nov 29 20:48:47 the problem with cover cases is that they don't allow for opening the keyboard, usually Nov 29 20:48:49 suihkulokki: can i interest you in enus or engb for a bit? :) Nov 29 20:49:23 * timeless_mbp needs a tester Nov 29 20:49:30 http://www.amazon.co.uk/AAJ-Trading-Black-Leather-Vertical/dp/B002WVRAZ8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1259527759&sr=8-1 Nov 29 20:49:37 RST38h, Nov 29 20:49:56 thanks =) Nov 29 20:50:08 RST38h, =) Nov 29 20:50:28 timeless_mbp: mmh, preferrably tomorrow when I can put it on a phone that has no data of importance :) Nov 29 20:50:39 suihkulokki: :/ Nov 29 20:51:20 doesnt seem many cases to choose from, but this is pretty cheap, when aweome case comes out , might upgrade, but think case pretty essential accesory Nov 29 20:52:29 those silicone cases make things look so cheap Nov 29 20:53:14 Variations on Rockdodger seems fun Nov 29 20:55:43 timeless_mbp: What are you testing? Nov 29 20:56:19 zerojay: translations Nov 29 20:56:23 please help :) Nov 29 20:56:45 whatcha need? Nov 29 20:56:45 kynky: looks like it will stop you from using the keyboard though Nov 29 20:57:31 timeless_mbp: do you know how i can take control of/update/delete http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mozilla-fennec/ ? Nov 29 20:57:41 alpha 2 is.. well, yeah. Nov 29 20:57:50 Pavlov: nope Nov 29 20:57:53 RST38h, yep, but used to taking device out of case now, dont think any cases do that yet, from my search about a week ago, but when one does come out , will prob get, but for £5.99 for leather case, seems a bargain Nov 29 20:58:02 that's the old db Nov 29 20:58:09 i never really pushed anything into it Nov 29 20:58:19 X-Fade could Nov 29 20:58:25 okay Nov 29 20:58:39 i'll send some emails Nov 29 20:59:20 "Updated 2008-09-16 21:24 UTC" lol Nov 29 20:59:44 So,as we have discussed - is it possible to change the size of home partition and enlage usr and/or opt? Nov 29 21:00:17 LuciusMare: have you paid *any* attn? Nov 29 21:00:31 the root partition is on a physically distinct media element Nov 29 21:00:37 you can't grow it, but you can ignore it Nov 29 21:00:43 I can't find snes emu in extras( Nov 29 21:00:51 everything else shares a second thing which is 32gb Nov 29 21:01:03 wazd, deleted due to nintendo threatening nokia Nov 29 21:01:23 wazd, it was never in extras, it got puled from extras-devel , cos of nintendo noise iirc Nov 29 21:01:36 LuciusMare: the 32gb you can reorganize any way you like Nov 29 21:01:37 i know Nov 29 21:01:38 kalikiana: I'm just kidding :) Nov 29 21:02:01 however i haven't met anyone who has had a problem w/ the 2gb volume being too small Nov 29 21:02:05 i mean,creating a part. which would be mounted as /usr Nov 29 21:02:14 um Nov 29 21:02:23 as i said, you can ignore the root fs Nov 29 21:02:24 wazd, ah, so it was just a sneaky way of disturbing the partition nonsense? :-P Nov 29 21:02:30 or whatever else Nov 29 21:02:49 you can always create an img on fat32 partition and mount that Nov 29 21:02:52 kalikiana: yep :D Nov 29 21:03:00 even use aufs and mount on /opt Nov 29 21:03:10 how "ignored"? Nov 29 21:03:22 oh Nov 29 21:03:27 New wave of insanity: http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/29/nokia-n900-glitch-leads-to-useful-portrait-mode/ Nov 29 21:03:47 RST38h: ))) Nov 29 21:04:27 Jeez, they don't even want to break typical USA citizen stereotype Nov 29 21:05:00 RST38h, quite an idiotic screenshot, since what it shows is already supported :-P Nov 29 21:05:20 just not available to us mere mortals Nov 29 21:05:40 oh, silly me, *with keyboard is not normally supported Nov 29 21:05:45 ignore me Nov 29 21:06:17 but still, if they showed something that doesn't do portrait, it would be more useful Nov 29 21:06:50 I wonder what they will write bout maemo6 device Nov 29 21:07:07 wazd: "Not an iPhone"? Nov 29 21:07:16 * timeless_mbp pokes zerojay Nov 29 21:07:50 RST38h: yep, looks like Nov 29 21:08:50 timeless_mbp: I don't see the app for it anymore. Nov 29 21:09:00 it's in control panel now :) Nov 29 21:09:01 RST38h: My app is not a fart simulator. ARM :D Nov 29 21:09:08 oh Nov 29 21:09:14 i probably didn't fix the reboot bit Nov 29 21:09:15 * timeless_mbp sighs Nov 29 21:09:28 I don't see it there. I'll reboot. Nov 29 21:09:34 hrm Nov 29 21:09:38 it did install, right? Nov 29 21:09:46 you shouldn't need to reboot Nov 29 21:11:25 * kynky has found reboots help quite a bit Nov 29 21:12:12 kynky: do you have an n900 yet? Nov 29 21:12:46 timeless_mbp, yep Nov 29 21:15:26 have had to reboot, to persist settings like, turn off haptic and audio feedback on touch screen, once i pulled out usb cable, it thought it was still connected, and when i have installed a desktop widget, it didnt show till i rebooted Nov 29 21:15:59 havent minded at all though Nov 29 21:18:15 why is GL_DEPTH24_STENCIL8_OES in gl2ext.h but not glext.h, in the SDK? Nov 29 21:18:23 anyone built an app to sync google contacts to the n900 yet? Nov 29 21:18:31 if i google it, it is in the khronos sdk in both 2.0 and 1.1 Nov 29 21:19:24 so there i am again Nov 29 21:19:38 My connection crashed just in time when you were telling it to me Nov 29 21:19:45 How can i "ignore" the root partition? Nov 29 21:19:59 (top two hits) Nov 29 21:22:17 So? Nov 29 21:22:33 It is impossible to *partition* the inner memory of n900? Nov 29 21:22:39 no Nov 29 21:22:42 it's just hard Nov 29 21:23:03 (Anyway,what is the verb from partitioning? to partition?) Nov 29 21:23:12 yes Nov 29 21:23:19 hm Nov 29 21:23:37 timeless_mbp: how did you mean the "ignoring" of root? Nov 29 21:24:29 i would guess he meant moving the rootfs onto the big, slow, internal 32gb Nov 29 21:24:36 similar to what was done on older devices Nov 29 21:24:40 ali1234: not exactly Nov 29 21:25:17 ali1234: smalling (my god,what an ugly verb) the /home/documents partition,creating another one and mounting it somewhere Nov 29 21:25:20 Not whole root Nov 29 21:25:26 Only one /folder Nov 29 21:25:27 yeah, that is also possible Nov 29 21:25:32 * lcuk goes playing supertux Nov 29 21:25:50 but if you don't know how to do it, it probably isn't best to learn on your n900 Nov 29 21:26:12 ali1234: so it is *that* hard? Nov 29 21:26:27 LuciusMare, have you filled your partition already? Nov 29 21:26:32 no, it's quite easy, if you're experienced with linux disk partitioning Nov 29 21:26:50 but you'll have to do a few tweaks in the system Nov 29 21:27:03 lcuk: no...but i expect the phone overflowing in like,week or two Nov 29 21:27:14 i don't see why it would Nov 29 21:27:19 LuciusMare, cool Nov 29 21:27:22 ali1234: fstab...what else? Nov 29 21:27:26 what sort of stuff are you getting Nov 29 21:27:33 and has anyone else filled their /top yet? Nov 29 21:27:35 opt Nov 29 21:27:48 LuciusMare: dunno, i have not attempted it. i would have to look at how the system works, and figure it out Nov 29 21:27:56 So, should I expect af-sb-init.sh to actually work? Nov 29 21:29:12 On the ARMEL target, I mean. Nov 29 21:29:21 i think... no Nov 29 21:29:35 it's only supported on x86 anyway Nov 29 21:30:26 ali1234: what i heard,its basically debian Nov 29 21:30:44 don't believe everything you hear Nov 29 21:30:48 heh Nov 29 21:30:53 from nokia.com and maemo.org Nov 29 21:31:11 LuciusMare: all i can tell you is it is possible. i don't know any more Nov 29 21:31:30 I assume these are credible sources Nov 29 21:31:39 ali1234: thank you,anyway Nov 29 21:31:43 it depends which part of maemo.org you read it on Nov 29 21:32:05 main...page? Nov 29 21:32:05 um Nov 29 21:32:05 not exactly Nov 29 21:32:12 mm Nov 29 21:32:21 i mean,the intro Nov 29 21:32:46 ali1234: It used to work, on prior SDKs. Nov 29 21:32:50 lcukn900: what client do you use? Nov 29 21:32:57 xchat Nov 29 21:33:02 oh Nov 29 21:33:04 thanks Nov 29 21:33:19 lcuk when are we making the virtual reality tennis/ping pong game with N900 paddles? Nov 29 21:33:59 That sounds nice Nov 29 21:34:01 how would we see screen if using it for a peddle Nov 29 21:34:05 paddle Nov 29 21:34:14 lcuk: av connector Nov 29 21:34:22 av connector is short lead Nov 29 21:34:27 its not like you can swing it round Nov 29 21:34:29 lcuk: then make it bigger Nov 29 21:34:37 user installable Nov 29 21:34:49 "oh sorry, to install this game we have to upgrade ur av link Nov 29 21:34:50 nahhh Nov 29 21:34:50 lcuk: virtual reality, Blue Tooth VR goggles ;) Nov 29 21:35:02 lcuk: or,wiimote style - use the integrated BT to send informations needed to some central computer that does the rest Nov 29 21:35:03 better to communicate with a desktop system and use n900 as remote Nov 29 21:35:10 ... Nov 29 21:35:20 the code running the onedotzero identity works nicely and is multiplayer Nov 29 21:35:25 lcuk: great idea,how sad i didnt think it off Nov 29 21:35:40 well LuciusMare i did it a couple of months ago :P Nov 29 21:35:57 Okay,you got me Nov 29 21:36:16 huh? Nov 29 21:36:16 bluetooth was too limiting Nov 29 21:36:18 onedotzero? Nov 29 21:36:21 what is that? Nov 29 21:36:50 http://maemo.nokia.com/videos/onedotzero-adventures-in-motion-powered-by-nokia-n900/ Nov 29 21:36:56 thanks Nov 29 21:37:06 http://maemo.nokia.com/videos/onedotzero-installation-how-it-worked/ Nov 29 21:37:21 woah Nov 29 21:37:22 * lcuk goes back to supertux Nov 29 21:37:25 That looks cool Nov 29 21:37:32 indeed :) Nov 29 21:37:34 lcuk: on your n900? Nov 29 21:37:46 Or at a PC? Nov 29 21:37:47 does xmodmap or xbindkeys work on n900? Nov 29 21:37:54 2 part app :) controller and visualiser Nov 29 21:38:05 n900 did control and input Nov 29 21:38:14 and sent the experience to the bigpcs Nov 29 21:38:31 lcuk: yes,i didn't expect this whole thing done by one "stupid" phone... >_> Nov 29 21:38:38 Anyway,its cool Nov 29 21:38:41 technically its possible Nov 29 21:38:46 Hi, anyone with maemo-mapper? ; ) Nov 29 21:38:49 just not with the stack that was used Nov 29 21:38:57 it was done in a subset of Processing on big fast pcs Nov 29 21:39:03 but for n900 resolution its practical Nov 29 21:39:18 if custom coded Nov 29 21:39:27 anyway,back to the eternal question... Nov 29 21:39:34 Are you playing supertux on your n900 or pc? Nov 29 21:39:46 n900 of course Nov 29 21:39:50 its hte best game out there Nov 29 21:39:55 Okay,android lost the last point for me Nov 29 21:39:59 (ot: have google maps changed URLs?) Nov 29 21:39:59 and doesnt have any copyright problems :) Nov 29 21:40:40 lcuk: unlike the emulator,"released" with big fame,now being courted Nov 29 21:40:53 I still think that it is just a bit sad Nov 29 21:41:54 meh same as many things Nov 29 21:42:24 Holy carp Nov 29 21:42:40 Accidentally visited US nokia e-shop Nov 29 21:42:49 It is there for,like 580$ or so Nov 29 21:43:01 Here,in freakin europe,it is 980$ Nov 29 21:43:09 lol Nov 29 21:43:23 I think it is cheaper to buy a plane ticket to US,buy it there and fly back Nov 29 21:43:52 exactly Nov 29 21:43:55 Nokia N900, now with free US Govt anal probe. Nov 29 21:44:02 lol Nov 29 21:44:04 lol Nov 29 21:44:15 lcuk: lets make an app like that! Nov 29 21:44:16 just no warranty and us keyboard if that doesnt bother you Nov 29 21:44:36 cehteh: okay,warranty would... bother me,but us keyboard? Nov 29 21:44:50 * cehteh checks what a flight to nyc would cost Nov 29 21:44:53 "oh my, a keyboard with arrows on it!" ;P Nov 29 21:44:56 timeless, high-latency-pong Nov 29 21:44:58 what's up? Nov 29 21:45:08 I think i heard somewhere that the Europe (czech) version of kb is included with crippled arrowws Nov 29 21:45:18 trying to get enus1 working Nov 29 21:45:26 lcuk: remember - waterproof case. Nov 29 21:45:35 http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/29/nokia-n900-glitch-leads-to-useful-portrait-mode/ Nov 29 21:45:37 timeless_mbp, new deb? Nov 29 21:45:49 Ave: you are old,already visited...weird stuff though Nov 29 21:45:54 *already listed Nov 29 21:45:56 at least scandinavic version is, in order to press up or down, one has to press fn+left or fn+right Nov 29 21:46:05 pillar: exactly what i am talking about Nov 29 21:46:07 the german keyboard has crippled arrows too Nov 29 21:46:10 crippled keyboard,that is Nov 29 21:46:20 Like a freaking c64 Nov 29 21:46:34 well its easy to remap the keyboard Nov 29 21:46:45 cehteh: but the labels dont change Nov 29 21:46:54 tipex Nov 29 21:47:00 yeah Nov 29 21:47:05 but my repo isn't working Nov 29 21:47:20 cehteh is it possible to remap the keyboard for specific apps only? I quite like the scandinavic keys in most cases Nov 29 21:47:21 ooer timeless what you borkened Nov 29 21:47:38 LuciusMare: yeah, comes from t.m.o even Nov 29 21:47:48 pillar: no idea, depends a bit on the app .. for emacs, yes quite sure :P Nov 29 21:47:57 pillar: er,for example,ubuntu does it...but i dont think it is possible without more or less coding Nov 29 21:48:03 on maemo Nov 29 21:48:24 ok flight to nyc next 2 months costs 500 over 1000 euros .. no deal Nov 29 21:48:33 LuciusMare, there are alternate keymaps for the N810 on t.m.o Nov 29 21:48:40 although it will be nice Nov 29 21:48:42 what is tmo? Nov 29 21:48:46 I've never made one, but I expect you could do it on the N900 as easily Nov 29 21:48:48 talk.maemo.org Nov 29 21:48:59 with periods in between - as opposed to t-mo ;) Nov 29 21:49:20 cehteh: hey,lets team up,everyone will donate to a plane ticket,we will give the chosen one the money,buy the phones and here,would give it to people Nov 29 21:49:39 *the money,he will buy the phones there,and here would give it to people Nov 29 21:49:50 Damn i really need to learn how to make proper sentences Nov 29 21:50:01 Or at least think a sentece through before typing it Nov 29 21:50:04 LuciusMare, I've seen worse on IRC Nov 29 21:50:07 i guess you get problems with customs when you want to enter europe with a bag full of n900's Nov 29 21:50:35 personal use, creating a n900 behemoth super computer Nov 29 21:50:39 cehteh: what is that in the bag? - ehhhh Nov 29 21:51:05 cehteh: so,lets hide them in bags of drugs! Nov 29 21:51:09 german customs are well trained, they are not easy to spoil Nov 29 21:51:11 They won't expect it Nov 29 21:51:15 LuciusMare, NOKLA N900s, maybe? :P Nov 29 21:51:16 lol Nov 29 21:51:20 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=399701&postcount=13 Nov 29 21:51:34 well i ordered for 498Eurs .. thats ok for me Nov 29 21:51:37 jaem: ok, try to update Nov 29 21:51:46 timeless_mbp, willdo Nov 29 21:51:49 in germany .. with warranty and german keyboard Nov 29 21:54:26 timeless_mbp, installing Nov 29 21:54:28 cehteh: you lucky one Nov 29 21:54:31 cehteh: wait a minute Nov 29 21:54:35 cehteh: germany? Nov 29 21:54:50 yes Nov 29 21:54:55 I am from austria Nov 29 21:54:57 That is near Nov 29 21:55:00 mp3-player.de Nov 29 21:55:03 where did you buy it? Nov 29 21:55:03 oh Nov 29 21:55:09 well still waiting Nov 29 21:55:16 where are you? Nov 29 21:55:26 um,austria Nov 29 21:55:27 :) Nov 29 21:55:42 wait Nov 29 21:55:44 that is in euros Nov 29 21:55:47 * LuciusMare smack himeslf Nov 29 21:55:50 *himself Nov 29 21:55:51 nevermind Nov 29 21:56:26 even if still cheaper then there,i wont buy a phone from a site called mp3players Nov 29 21:56:46 hang on LuciusMare you are wanting to cure a problem no1 has with device - before you even get the device? Nov 29 21:56:48 Also,its just 75 euros Nov 29 21:56:51 you are efficient! Nov 29 21:56:54 er Nov 29 21:56:56 thanks Nov 29 21:57:03 (i just realised what you were on about earlier) Nov 29 21:57:12 sarah conner chronicles is pretty good Nov 29 21:57:15 i dont want to run into a problem,so i solve them before running into them Nov 29 21:57:16 too bad it was cancelled Nov 29 21:57:22 i don't understand what the networks expect for ratings Nov 29 21:57:32 i mean it didn't get like. retardedly high ratings Nov 29 21:57:36 LuciusMare, focus energies elsewhere Nov 29 21:57:43 for now at least :) Nov 29 21:58:02 lcuk: hey,i dont want a device that has problems - so i presolve them and then just apply the solutions Nov 29 21:58:33 LuciusMare: that site just happens to have the cheapest offer and i once buyed there already wiithout problems, fast service Nov 29 22:03:38 can a person who has his open source package (code or otherwise) send out a takedown notice for someone hosting it elsewhere Nov 29 22:04:02 lcuk, depends on the license, but usually no Nov 29 22:04:07 not normally, anyway Nov 29 22:04:08 why? Nov 29 22:04:08 didnt think so Nov 29 22:04:15 idle curiosity Nov 29 22:04:27 i suppose if there were other complications it might make it valid Nov 29 22:04:49 lcuk, some non-code licenses, like CC, have provisions for you to request that attribution be removed if your work is used in a way that you feel reflects poorly on you Nov 29 22:05:02 but that's the most I've seen Nov 29 22:05:26 timeless_mbp, everything seems shiny Nov 29 22:05:36 really? thats an odd line Nov 29 22:05:40 install went fine, and the strings aren't borked Nov 29 22:05:43 * lcuk goes reading how they ascertain that one Nov 29 22:06:10 lcuk, no, I meant that you have the right to request removal of attribution, even thought you can't request removal of the work itself Nov 29 22:06:27 ahhh thats different then cool Nov 29 22:06:34 e.g. if I license something CC-By, and some 'shops it into porn, and I don't like that, then I can get my name removed Nov 29 22:06:46 but if you remove attributation what license is the work under? Nov 29 22:07:02 the same - it's an exception Nov 29 22:07:17 that's in there because normally attribution is required for all CC licenses Nov 29 22:07:27 * lcuk nods Nov 29 22:07:50 lcuk: do you want him to put the software down or just not attribute it? Nov 29 22:08:05 nothing to do with me Nov 29 22:08:09 ... Nov 29 22:08:12 i just saw something that made me o_O Nov 29 22:08:32 bacon? Nov 29 22:08:32 and wondered how it would work Nov 29 22:08:32 lol frals Nov 29 22:08:33 nahh Nov 29 22:08:37 ;) Nov 29 22:08:51 mirror services honouring takedown notices of open source packages :) Nov 29 22:09:00 timeless_mbp, getting warnings on the install: "rmdir: '/usr/share/locale/en_US.0': Not a directory", and such Nov 29 22:09:07 but otherwise it seems to work Nov 29 22:09:24 however, the dialog with two choices and Ok/Cancel buttons is rather confusing Nov 29 22:09:58 Anyway,as i have quickly read the gnu/gpl license - and understood the main pillars,it is impossible to make someone stop distributing the program - can you imagine what would happen if linus would go nuts and made linux commercial? Nov 29 22:10:26 * jaem imagines Linux going insane Nov 29 22:10:27 :) Nov 29 22:10:30 thats not the same problem at all Nov 29 22:10:42 linus ould be fully in his rights to do that Nov 29 22:10:43 jaem: i said Linus Nov 29 22:10:45 * lbt looks incredulously at LuciusMare.... Nov 29 22:10:49 lcuk: he wont Nov 29 22:10:51 if however he tried to retract the older open versions Nov 29 22:10:58 thats where the problem comes Nov 29 22:10:59 LuciusMare, typo Nov 29 22:11:02 I do it all the time >_< Nov 29 22:11:03 um,yes Nov 29 22:11:24 lcuk: yep,he can actually make more -commercial- versions,and nobody can stop him Nov 29 22:11:43 I constructed the sentence bad - if he would make linux commercial,thus removing all versions but his - paid. Nov 29 22:12:04 That *is* impossible under the gnu license Nov 29 22:12:30 the license itself wont stop him from trying, the users will however be up in arms Nov 29 22:12:40 and we would prolly see a fist fight with linux and rms Nov 29 22:12:51 lcuk: yahoo,geek wrestling Nov 29 22:13:05 lcuk: wait,no Nov 29 22:13:34 lcuk: the license would have to stop him: Nov 29 22:14:19 nahhh everybody breaks licenses everyday. its people noticing thats the problem Nov 29 22:14:25 hey Nov 29 22:14:35 The GNU General Public License is a Free Software license. Like any Free Software license, it grants to you the four following freedoms: Nov 29 22:14:38 blah blah Nov 29 22:14:43 # Nov 29 22:14:44 # The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor. Nov 29 22:15:04 So,he couldnt stop the users from distributing the free versions of linux Nov 29 22:15:07 Everyoens my neighbor Nov 29 22:15:13 AakashPatel: that's the point Nov 29 22:15:24 A true love will always come back: Nov 29 22:15:26 64 bytes from insomniac.pl (91.206.27.146): icmp_seq=3603 ttl=54 time=42911 ms Nov 29 22:15:26 64 bytes from insomniac.pl (91.206.27.146): icmp_seq=3604 ttl=54 time=41975 ms Nov 29 22:15:26 64 bytes from insomniac.pl (91.206.27.146): icmp_seq=3605 ttl=54 time=40975 ms Nov 29 22:15:40 my ping packets must love me Nov 29 22:15:43 look up the context of neighbor lol Nov 29 22:15:46 arachnist: what is that?Post pidgeons? Nov 29 22:15:49 LuciusMare, if a piece of paper magically stopped people from breaking licenses then there would be no crime Nov 29 22:15:53 lololol Nov 29 22:16:03 LuciusMare: shell load issues Nov 29 22:16:32 sounds like your server went to sleep Nov 29 22:16:33 lcuk: o'course,i don't count the possibility that Linus would buy weapons of mass destruction and destroying every single copy of the kernel Nov 29 22:17:11 hmm... that could work. Nov 29 22:17:13 * lcuk respects the gpl :) Nov 29 22:17:18 however,the users would be "in law" when they would keep distribuing the code Nov 29 22:17:20 egh Nov 29 22:17:26 distribuuing? Nov 29 22:17:36 DISTRIBUTING! Nov 29 22:17:38 That is the word Nov 29 22:17:42 * LuciusMare hides in shame Nov 29 22:21:25 LuciusMare: commercial != non-free Nov 29 22:21:46 Linux is quite commercial Nov 29 22:21:57 wait,whaat? Nov 29 22:22:08 in which way is linux commercial? Nov 29 22:22:51 ...its used in commercial applications Nov 29 22:22:58 BAM! Commercial! Nov 29 22:23:32 er Nov 29 22:23:34 LuciusMare: you can buy it Nov 29 22:23:40 But the linux itself is not commercial Nov 29 22:23:51 Linux is not a whore Nov 29 22:23:54 LuciusMare: that's accidental Nov 29 22:23:59 it could be commercial Nov 29 22:24:25 The fact that people use the *free* software in commercial applications does not make it commercial Nov 29 22:24:29 Linus could begin charging $5/yr for a subscription to his git branch Nov 29 22:24:41 'free' has nothing to do with 'commercial' Nov 29 22:24:47 they are entirely unrelated topics Nov 29 22:25:02 this point is something most people don't understand though. Nov 29 22:25:03 'free' has to do with rights, and 'commercial' has to do with finances Nov 29 22:25:13 luke-jr: yes,so i dont know why are you mixing it up Nov 29 22:25:18 he could do that, but only one person in the entire world would have to pay Nov 29 22:25:32 so it would be completely pointless Nov 29 22:25:46 ali1234: you're assuming that one person feels like setting up a parallel distribution Nov 29 22:25:51 Linux is free - people are free to do what they want w/ it.Including using in commercial apps Nov 29 22:25:56 and that nobody would pay for immediate access Nov 29 22:25:58 luke-jr: no, not really, all they have to do is mirror it Nov 29 22:26:15 not really (see redhat vs centos) Nov 29 22:26:17 which is trivial with git btw Nov 29 22:26:26 javispedro: and many people still buy RedHat Nov 29 22:26:46 luke-jr: exactly Nov 29 22:26:46 luke-jr: for the support, not for access to the code Nov 29 22:26:48 anywhooooo.... Nov 29 22:26:49 ali1234: true Nov 29 22:27:47 javispedro: any idea on this: http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53886#p367180 Nov 29 22:28:15 both _OES and _EXT mean "extension" Nov 29 22:28:18 luke-jr: and, just look at the sveasoft debacle for an example what happens when you try to charge for access to your svn Nov 29 22:28:26 (basically) Nov 29 22:28:41 Linus could charge $1 per 12 pulls... then any mirror would be unlikely to be latest codebase ;P Nov 29 22:28:52 javispedro: yeah, i gather that... why does 2.0 have it but 1.1 doesn't? Nov 29 22:28:53 ali1234: Sveasoft violated the GPL. totally different scenario. Nov 29 22:29:07 ali1234: so you'll have to check if the pvr sgx supports it. in which case you can feel free to pull the headers, else, die. Nov 29 22:29:17 ali1234: 1.1 had many extensions which are now mandatory on 2.0 Nov 29 22:29:24 FBOs come to mind Nov 29 22:29:25 luke-jr: they didn;t violate the GPL. if you want the code, all you have to do is pay them, and promise not to mirror their code Nov 29 22:29:42 ali1234: that promise is infringing Nov 29 22:29:44 anyway, the latter part is a gpl violation i guess :) Nov 29 22:30:16 actually, I wonder how it would go in a court Nov 29 22:30:28 two contracts, one granting the right, and the other promising not to use that right Nov 29 22:30:38 actually, they don't mind if you mirror the code, but if you do, you;'re banned from their club Nov 29 22:30:55 luke-jr: i guess,if they accepted the rights,and then denied it against the license under they got the code... Nov 29 22:31:01 ali1234: pretty sure at one point, they actively prevented mirroring Nov 29 22:31:19 anyway, i don't want to talk about this, i want to fix ogre Nov 29 22:31:23 :p Nov 29 22:31:36 ali1234: have n900? run glGetString(GL_EXTENSIONS) and look for GL_OES_packed_depth_stencil Nov 29 22:31:42 in 1.1 surface Nov 29 22:31:50 Yes,lets get from ugly papers to beautiful software Nov 29 22:31:55 :) Nov 29 22:32:44 Anyone available at the moment? Nov 29 22:32:46 iphone supports it so my guess is that really just the headers are missing it Nov 29 22:32:59 MNX1024, for what? Nov 29 22:33:00 MNX1024: not really Nov 29 22:33:20 Need help with the N900 installing apps. Nov 29 22:33:30 MNX1024, what's your problem? Nov 29 22:33:34 I just have a minute, but I'll try Nov 29 22:33:57 I don't know how to use dpkg -i, lol, and red pill isn't helping either. Nov 29 22:34:14 MNX1024: dpkg -i package Nov 29 22:34:25 That was the red pill of man Nov 29 22:34:34 of man-ual pages to be more precise and to avoid puns Nov 29 22:34:37 javispedro: android supports it too, and it's on the khronos headers if you google it Nov 29 22:34:40 MNX1024, what are you trying to do? Install a local package? Nov 29 22:34:45 a deb file Nov 29 22:34:48 ali1234: being on the krhonos headers means nothing Nov 29 22:34:52 be careful with that Nov 29 22:34:56 MNX1024, what ali1234 said Nov 29 22:35:00 Yea, I know the risk Nov 29 22:35:01 ali1234: other than it's a ratified extension Nov 29 22:35:03 MNX1024: get into a terminal,then under root do "dpkg -i package" Nov 29 22:35:06 but you have to use thef filename, not the package name Nov 29 22:35:15 yes,actually Nov 29 22:35:20 jaem: what i said? Nov 29 22:35:27 ali1234, I was concurring Nov 29 22:35:31 if you are not sure,list all the files by "ls" Nov 29 22:35:42 MNX1024: and don't use red pill for anything, please. Nov 29 22:35:42 It would be nice if you can slow down and elaborate more. I've actually spent 2 hours trying to use dpkg -i and still couldn't get it to work Nov 29 22:35:52 MNX1024, okay, sure Nov 29 22:35:57 do you have root access? Nov 29 22:36:00 MNX1024: okay,so what problems do you run into? Nov 29 22:36:04 The only thing I was able to even get red pill to install was app installer.. Nov 29 22:36:08 Roughly,what does it output? Nov 29 22:36:13 after that, it refuse to work for me. Nov 29 22:36:39 the question of course is, why would you want to install a .deb file? Nov 29 22:36:41 MNX1024, what does it do when you try? Nov 29 22:37:31 give me a moment Nov 29 22:38:02 MNX1024: does it say anything?If so,what does it say? Nov 29 22:38:28 ali1234: if it's missing from the gl2ext.h file on armel sdk repo, feel free to file a bug (and this one HAS chances of being fixed, since it's an autobuilder showstopper) Nov 29 22:38:36 Unable to update 'gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg'. Incompatible application package Nov 29 22:38:44 javispedro: it isn't missing from that one Nov 29 22:38:47 oh Nov 29 22:38:53 ali1234: ah yep, glext.h, sorry. Nov 29 22:39:06 (same applies, just a bad typo :) ) Nov 29 22:39:10 javispedro: everything i do, is on armel repo, and tested on device Nov 29 22:39:38 MNX1024, that sounds like an architecture error, maybe Nov 29 22:39:39 That's what I get for trying to use red pill Nov 29 22:39:46 i'm trying to get the GL_EXTENSIONS atm Nov 29 22:39:53 the package /does/ end in "armel.deb", right? Nov 29 22:39:53 Same message with several different deb files. Nov 29 22:40:01 yea Nov 29 22:40:04 odd Nov 29 22:40:13 that's the whole message? Nov 29 22:40:18 yes Nov 29 22:40:27 hmm Nov 29 22:40:31 This is the message I got from red pill Nov 29 22:40:51 It's within that yellow stip Nov 29 22:40:57 MNX1024: what are you trying to install? Nov 29 22:41:05 gstreamer Nov 29 22:41:11 gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg Nov 29 22:41:15 yea, that Nov 29 22:41:19 which is on extras... Nov 29 22:41:22 so you're wasting your time. Nov 29 22:41:26 It is? Nov 29 22:41:30 yes Nov 29 22:41:35 gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg 0.10.9-2maemo1 Fremantle Extras free armel Nov 29 22:41:43 Either I'm missing something or it's not there Nov 29 22:41:44 MNX1024, the App Manager won't show things like that Nov 29 22:41:52 use apt-get install packagename from a root shell Nov 29 22:42:12 the App Manager only shows "apps", not libraries and command line utilities, for the most part Nov 29 22:42:20 easier Nov 29 22:42:20 but there's lots in the repos Nov 29 22:42:24 MNX1024: install zoutube Nov 29 22:42:28 from the application manager Nov 29 22:43:10 I got my deb file from here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg/0.10.9-2maemo1/ Nov 29 22:43:18 odd Nov 29 22:43:20 forget about .deb files Nov 29 22:43:24 and install zoutube. Nov 29 22:43:25 * jaem is off for a haircut - good luck Nov 29 22:43:37 How exactly does that help me? Nov 29 22:43:39 javispedro: maybe it will work after installing from repos,but i would rather troubleshoot the problem Nov 29 22:43:48 it will install -flv and -ffmpeg Nov 29 22:43:54 MNX1024^^ Nov 29 22:43:59 Oh, ok than. Nov 29 22:44:01 LuciusMare: installing .debs is NOT the proper way Nov 29 22:44:13 javispedro: what does it do when you apt-get install it? Nov 29 22:44:16 LuciusMare: there's a reason it was removed and deeply hidden in the interface Nov 29 22:44:25 it downloads and then installs the .deb file Nov 29 22:44:40 LuciusMare: from a repo, which is _signed_ (that's the keyword here) Nov 29 22:44:49 I just realize something, when I try to use red pill, I noticed that the size is 0kb, that's a bit odd. Nov 29 22:44:56 and our ONLY hope this does not convert into a worm riden platform where everyone has a virus. Nov 29 22:45:05 javispedro: actually,the .deb he downloaded was from a repo Nov 29 22:45:20 LuciusMare: i don't mind, end users don't have to install .debs . period. Nov 29 22:45:46 javispedro: why it's not the proper way? Nov 29 22:46:10 LuciusMare: do you get thousands of PMs a day from people who install OS2008 versions on N900? Nov 29 22:46:22 well, thousands... more like dozens ;) Nov 29 22:46:41 lol Nov 29 22:46:57 javispedro: oh Nov 29 22:47:03 By me installing zoutube, I would get all the codec that is in ffmpeg, and this would allow me to play videos with those codec on mediaplayer? Nov 29 22:47:08 and the day will come when they realize that a .deb is basically like downloading a binary and "sudo exec()ing" it . Nov 29 22:47:26 thus basically I can create a 1 KiB .deb file that bricks their tablet IRREVERSIBLY Nov 29 22:47:31 javispedro: .deb contains a little more then a binary and stuff Nov 29 22:47:34 so you have been warned Nov 29 22:47:39 those crazy .debs Nov 29 22:48:00 LuciusMare: a binary run as ROOT... Nov 29 22:48:09 s/binary/script but that's about the same Nov 29 22:48:15 javispedro: once you - or someone in this # - said that there is no problem that reflash wouldnt solve Nov 29 22:48:30 LuciusMare: well he was wrong. Nov 29 22:48:34 so i guess its not IRREVERSIBLY bricked Nov 29 22:48:40 what does it do exaclty,then? Nov 29 22:48:44 and I am sure today's it been explained again how to overwrite NOLO. Nov 29 22:49:00 If it has been overwrited,you can write it in again Nov 29 22:49:13 how exactly? with a hot solder station? Nov 29 22:49:21 *hot air Nov 29 22:49:21 jtag! Nov 29 22:49:59 javispedro: i am sure there must be a "better" way - but anyway,even if,it is not bricked Nov 29 22:50:16 it is, until you bring me some news about cold flashing Nov 29 22:50:17 LuciusMare:except huge phone bills Nov 29 22:50:26 (currently non existant) Nov 29 22:50:30 hm Nov 29 22:51:02 And booting the phone off some other system,and writing it in again? Nov 29 22:51:11 the phone won't boot. Nov 29 22:51:52 javispedro: i can't seem to create a GLES 1.1 context with EGL Nov 29 22:52:04 LOL Nov 29 22:52:16 if you hose nolo, i doubt even nokia care would help you Nov 29 22:52:27 someone put a piece of code in the john henry with an ascii logo! Nov 29 22:52:28 awesome! Nov 29 22:52:41 ali1234: that's interesting. what are the diferences with 2.0 code? Nov 29 22:52:43 just the GL_ES_1 bit? Nov 29 22:52:46 I just want to know something, can the N900 play files that have a higher resolution than its own screen? Nov 29 22:52:47 yeah Nov 29 22:52:53 ouch Nov 29 22:53:14 javispedro: that is a limitation of hardware.I think that installing only trusted debs should do the trick Nov 29 22:53:14 are you linking with GLES_CM ? Nov 29 22:53:14 MNX1024: yes Nov 29 22:53:14 yes. eglCreateContext failed (12293). Nov 29 22:53:25 MNX1024: 1080p HD has been reportted to work in some cases Nov 29 22:53:36 with hw accelerated codecs Nov 29 22:53:44 LuciusMare: so you finally agree that users should not have the ability to install debs :) Nov 29 22:53:49 * lcuk cant wait until code distribution is the norm :) Nov 29 22:53:54 Ok than, the N900 can play any file out of the box, as long as it's within its supported codec range, am I correct? Nov 29 22:54:00 javispedro: um...okay,you got me there Nov 29 22:54:04 im probably doing it wrong Nov 29 22:54:20 javispedro: why shouldn't they? Nov 29 22:54:21 users should be able to do it - BFUs shouldnt Nov 29 22:54:30 BFUs shouldnt even get root access Nov 29 22:54:41 BFU? Nov 29 22:54:51 Macer: chances for user error are (currently) way too large. Nov 29 22:54:55 Bloody fuckin user,i would say Nov 29 22:55:05 javispedro: more like developer assholeness :) Nov 29 22:55:16 But in my - original language it is less onfensive - like "Average User john" Nov 29 22:55:21 javispedro, but what has changed now than people doing exactly the same in previous years Nov 29 22:55:24 can't really blame a user over the fact tere are evil or bad developers out there Nov 29 22:55:26 Macer: people getting the first .deb they see from the author's homepage without even checking what the target OS is ... ;P Nov 29 22:55:47 ... which is clearly written in big letters in a

... Nov 29 22:55:48 yeah, see, debs have an arch field that prevents that level of stupidity Nov 29 22:55:54 javispedro: then maybe the author should put the warning in huge bold letters? :) Nov 29 22:55:57 oh Nov 29 22:55:57 i take users as even the hackers that make a roflecopter out of from it Nov 29 22:55:58 hahaha Nov 29 22:56:04 well. then that is the fault of an idiot user Nov 29 22:56:16 ali1234: no, i mean diablo vs fremantle Nov 29 22:56:19 oh Nov 29 22:56:26 again, thinking all of us n810 users don't exist Nov 29 22:56:32 the n900 is not the center of the world dammit! Nov 29 22:56:42 well Nov 29 22:56:45 Darn,okay,it is about 0:00 so i am going to sleep Nov 29 22:56:46 javispedro: lies! Nov 29 22:56:47 hahaha Nov 29 22:56:48 ;) Nov 29 22:56:53 if you don't want people to install debs, why do you put them on your webpage :) Nov 29 22:56:54 speaking of n810.. i should charge mine Nov 29 22:57:00 i seriosly need to get an n900 Nov 29 22:57:16 ali1234: touché. the issue is that I've removed them now but it's too late, people are mirroring them. Nov 29 22:57:22 anyone have any ideas where a person would find some slight hand-holding for developing OpenGL ES apps for maemo (or anything for that matter)? Nov 29 22:57:25 Anyway, think someone can confirm my previous question? Nov 29 22:57:27 fair enough Nov 29 22:57:45 javispedro: even if you never put out a deb, someone would make one Nov 29 22:57:56 MNX1024: if it's able to play a media with larger res than builtin screen it's a matter of luck and depends of codecs Nov 29 22:58:04 Klowner, theres plenty of escort agencies aorund that do the hand holding, not sure how practical they would be as developers Nov 29 22:58:07 but you might get lucky Nov 29 22:58:12 i mean even if you somehow baleted every deb version on the internets Nov 29 22:58:19 lcuk: hrmm, that's a good idea regardless Nov 29 22:58:38 lcuk: that'd probably distract me from the desire to tinker with GL stuff Nov 29 22:58:40 My previous question is actually this : Ok than, the N900 can play any file out of the box, as long as it's within its supported codec range, am I correct? Nov 29 22:58:53 ali1234: and that's the reason the option for installing .debs is gone in fremantle (it was on diablo) Nov 29 22:59:00 what about .install files? Nov 29 22:59:02 codec range ? Nov 29 22:59:07 do they require the file is in extras? Nov 29 22:59:07 * javispedro hides Nov 29 22:59:19 kynky: what ever codec the N900 supports. Nov 29 22:59:22 ali1234, a .install fiel can specify its own repository Nov 29 22:59:25 john henry is a molester! Nov 29 22:59:27 hahaha Nov 29 22:59:34 so yes, in a way, it's way around all this. Nov 29 22:59:38 does the .install file have a way to check it's the right OS version? Nov 29 22:59:51 the .install doesnt but the app manager does Nov 29 22:59:58 yeah, if the repo author knew what he was doing Nov 29 23:00:09 javispedro: which i assume you do... Nov 29 23:00:16 I actually never had a repo Nov 29 23:00:19 well mplayer supports aload of codecs , gstreamer, well it depends on the gstreamer plugins installed , and then it will depend on processing power of n900 and if it an use dsp to do any offload Nov 29 23:00:26 well, had one but removed it nearly half a year ago Nov 29 23:00:30 I'll go bug #opengl Nov 29 23:00:31 javispedro: lol, even i have a (private) repo :) Nov 29 23:00:35 there is always dpkg i thought Nov 29 23:01:49 Can someone tell me how come I can't play a avi file that uses h264 codec? Nov 29 23:02:07 because avi files should never contain h264 streams Nov 29 23:02:20 MNX1024, what bitrate, what profile and what res ? Nov 29 23:02:33 avi is just a container Nov 29 23:02:46 128kb Nov 29 23:02:58 resolution is 848 x 480 Nov 29 23:03:17 can mplayer play it ? Nov 29 23:03:17 audio codec is mpga Nov 29 23:03:44 Well, don't know how to access it x terminal, but when using it through kmplayer, I get sounds for the first 2 seconds Nov 29 23:04:05 and then it goes full screen, then starts to flicker. Nov 29 23:05:05 i guess having access to logs would be handy, but i guess it might just be easier to transcode Nov 29 23:05:11 MNX1024: probably falls "unsuppoted codec + container" Nov 29 23:05:16 .avi is something non-standard Nov 29 23:05:37 I thought the N900 supports avi and h264 Nov 29 23:05:56 h264 should be in mp4 container Nov 29 23:06:07 that's standard Nov 29 23:06:08 supporting avi is a very vague term Nov 29 23:06:12 MNX1024, it does support h264 in avi Nov 29 23:06:13 Evening, all Nov 29 23:06:27 evening ccooke :) Nov 29 23:06:27 MNX1024, however it only supports h264 basic profile Nov 29 23:06:46 MNX1024, h264 is a massive spec, and the n900 only supports a part of it Nov 29 23:06:54 javispedro: what was that GLES example code you linked me to the other day? was it 1.1? Nov 29 23:07:03 ali1234: no, it was 2.0 Nov 29 23:07:06 hmm Nov 29 23:07:07 * ccooke has had a *busy* few days :-) Nov 29 23:07:22 i already have written a 2.0 example :) Nov 29 23:07:37 Can someone teach me how to use mplayer through x terminal? Nov 29 23:07:54 maybe they borked 1.1 support in recent firmwares.. Nov 29 23:08:11 nah, i had ogre working with the old SVN version Nov 29 23:08:28 but ogre is too huge to add a glGetString on a random line of code, and expect it to work Nov 29 23:08:37 MNX1024: try mplayer yourfilename Nov 29 23:08:41 plus the latest doesn;t work :/ Nov 29 23:08:50 moo: just that? Nov 29 23:08:58 no need to use cd and such on? Nov 29 23:09:55 MNX1024: ah naturally Nov 29 23:10:08 but that falls outside "teach how to use mplayer" that's "teach how to use linux" ;) Nov 29 23:10:16 but i can help Nov 29 23:10:19 where is your video file? Nov 29 23:10:22 That would be real nice. Nov 29 23:12:35 is apt-get install libqt4-maemo5-dev working for people? I am getting an error for missing two depencies and not knowing where to find them (libgles2-sgx-img-dev and opengles-sgz-img-common-dev) Nov 29 23:13:16 moo: nevermind, I forgot to put something before the slash, lol. Anyway, it's located here /home/user/documents/file.avi Nov 29 23:13:41 And here I thought something was wrong with my connection to the channel. XD Nov 29 23:15:49 Well, yea, not sure how to use CD. I couldn't figure out, even after I read several post on it. Nov 29 23:15:59 MNX1024: ok Nov 29 23:16:16 to get your current folder use command "pwd" (process working directory) Nov 29 23:16:24 then cd .. to go up Nov 29 23:16:30 or cd foldername to go down Nov 29 23:16:37 .. = parent folder Nov 29 23:17:08 Some example would be nice, lol. Nov 29 23:17:28 I'm assuming it will be pwd /home/user/documents ? Nov 29 23:17:48 i thought pwd meant print working dir Nov 29 23:18:08 MNX1024: cd /home/user/documents Nov 29 23:18:13 if you want to get to it Nov 29 23:21:03 AakashPatel: Ok, I get this message when I did you told me: can't cd to..... Nov 29 23:21:55 uh Nov 29 23:22:15 MNX1024: type /home/user/documents/ Nov 29 23:22:19 in the terminal Nov 29 23:22:24 whats it sa Nov 29 23:22:25 y Nov 29 23:22:46 not found Nov 29 23:23:10 hm type cd /home/user/d and then press tab Nov 29 23:23:19 oh does maemo's term have tab complete? Nov 29 23:23:33 that's not a term thing Nov 29 23:23:46 bash/ash shiz? Nov 29 23:23:50 Does the case of the words matter? Nov 29 23:23:54 i shouldnt Nov 29 23:24:12 Maybe try with a capital Documents Nov 29 23:24:25 yes, case matters Nov 29 23:24:36 oh yeah then type with a capital D Nov 29 23:24:58 should home be Home? Nov 29 23:25:02 no Nov 29 23:25:03 hope Nov 29 23:25:06 wtf Nov 29 23:25:08 nope* Nov 29 23:25:08 haha Nov 29 23:26:08 .documents Nov 29 23:26:17 I suspect what you really want might be /home/user/MyDocs/.documents - what you see in the UI is the /home/user/MyDocs folder only. Nov 29 23:27:00 Ok, I've tried this cd /home/user/Documents and cd /home/user/Documents/ , it still says can't cd to Nov 29 23:27:00 oh heh Nov 29 23:27:00 MNX1024: what pH5 said Nov 29 23:27:50 yay, I got it, finally Nov 29 23:27:51 lol Nov 29 23:28:08 No wonder I couldn't get dpkg to work Nov 29 23:28:13 because I was missing mydocs Nov 29 23:28:56 MNX1024: got it? Nov 29 23:28:56 good Nov 29 23:29:02 Anyway, let's get back to my current issue. If I want to use mplayer to open something, now I would just type "mplayer filename.avi" ? Nov 29 23:29:21 sleepytime -> Nov 29 23:29:26 good night Nov 29 23:29:41 MNX1024: yeah Nov 29 23:30:09 ok, i got the latest ogre to run after adding in the missing #define. i guess i'll have to try to use it to for the glGetString Nov 29 23:38:17 hey ccooke Nov 29 23:38:46 hiya Nov 29 23:38:48 Sorry to be bothering you guys again, I'm trying to access my video clip folder. I can't seem to get it to work Nov 29 23:40:09 javispedro: ok, got it. i see these in the output: GL_OES_depth24 GL_OES_stencil8 Nov 29 23:40:22 * ccooke discovers that mythtv actually works with the current upgrade. Well, apart from the channel data, so far... Nov 29 23:40:32 argh, EWIN. Sorry. Nov 29 23:40:42 * ccooke is distracted :-/ Nov 29 23:41:20 * lcuk is too Nov 29 23:42:36 Nevermind, I got it. Nov 29 23:43:35 Just quick question, how do I cd files from my memory card? Nov 29 23:44:20 MNX1024, cd them? Nov 29 23:44:55 Actually, how do I get to the root of my memory card Nov 29 23:44:58 ? Nov 29 23:45:12 I have some files there and I need to use mplayer to open them Nov 29 23:45:22 not sure what the directory would look like. Nov 29 23:48:20 MNX1024: the memory card will be /media/mmc1 IIRC Nov 29 23:48:41 * lcuk was just looking but got sidetracked by the existence of a DCIM folder on it Nov 29 23:49:28 Thanks Nov 29 23:51:07 * lcuk changes chan Nov 29 23:52:02 is anyone here been able to integrate esbox under windows with qt development? I'm having a problem to get it recognize my share Nov 29 23:56:08 the only thing I am able to find about the error is someone else pasting the same error, but no answers.. http://pastebin.com/m30d5234e Nov 29 23:56:09 * lcuk curses having to search megatonnes of code for a single function i know i wrote at one point Nov 29 23:56:25 night all Nov 29 23:56:35 gnite lardman Nov 29 23:56:36 * lardman knows that feeling, good luck! Nov 29 23:56:41 heh Nov 29 23:57:03 pillar, thats a rly cool pastebin Nov 29 23:58:23 wow Nov 29 23:58:25 lcuk I was excited to see there was someone else with the same problem, but then no answer :/ Nov 29 23:58:30 the sarah conner chronicles. that's how they end it? Nov 29 23:58:32 wtf? :) Nov 29 23:58:32 well, I guess no one ported samba/smbclient to fremantle yet? Nov 29 23:58:50 that was a bigger let down tha jericho Nov 29 23:58:55 pillar, note my sarcastic tone. Nov 29 23:58:56 and bsg Nov 29 23:59:01 perhaps just getting an armel deb from the debian repos works, who knows ... Nov 29 23:59:01 check the pastebin link you pasted Nov 29 23:59:02 lcuk ok :) Nov 29 23:59:03 I've made samba work for ARM before Nov 29 23:59:05 samba is NOT supported in Fremantle. that's it. Nov 29 23:59:17 why not try fremantle :0 Nov 29 23:59:17 lol Nov 29 23:59:20 andre__, this is about sbox Nov 29 23:59:24 not for the device Nov 29 23:59:29 oh? Nov 29 23:59:30 hi btw Nov 29 23:59:32 okay Nov 29 23:59:33 heja Nov 29 23:59:48 compiling samba in sbox is easy peasy Nov 29 23:59:56 not trying to support fremantle samba, just trying to get esbox work with linux virtual machine and it needs a windows share in order to work Nov 30 00:00:03 erm the lib is lol Nov 30 00:00:27 "Unknown post id, it may have expired or been deleted" Nov 30 00:00:27 "esbox under windows" => needs samba shares to be mounted from inside sbox I guess Nov 30 00:00:27 mikhas you got it Nov 30 00:00:27 O.o Nov 30 00:00:33 AakashPatel, then you could create one of the few useful t.m.o threads =) Nov 30 00:01:03 lcuk pastebin link didn't work for you? Nov 30 00:01:12 works for me :) Nov 30 00:01:13 Haha I'll make on when i get my n900 from nokia next week Nov 30 00:01:19 this week i guess lol Nov 30 00:01:26 why wait? Nov 30 00:01:30 earn karma today! Nov 30 00:01:36 testing ftw Nov 30 00:01:45 it looks as if it would only take you 5 minutes Nov 30 00:01:57 and make an esbox user happy =) Nov 30 00:02:03 lol Nov 30 00:02:04 * Arkenoi wishes i'd had xterm with smaller softkeys either aligned to the right edge, not to the bottom or with <>[]=| f1-f12 there as well. Nov 30 00:02:49 w/ roethlisberger out 2nite the spread/line of the steelers is ridic Nov 30 00:03:55 so this error is about smb not compiled for scratchbox? /home/maemo/.mica/mount_samba_share.sh: 62: smbmount: not found Nov 30 00:04:13 pillar, yes. I think you only need smbclient, not even the server Nov 30 00:04:38 whatever is providing smbmount Nov 30 00:04:50 ok good to know Nov 30 00:07:14 hrm, who poked me? Nov 30 00:12:23 N810 with diablo and Extras enabled: can't install gpe-calendar. It's looking for gpe-icons svn20080114 but only svn20080114 is available. Packaging mistake? Nov 30 00:16:25 anyone here w/ an n900 and a few mins to play around w/ something? Nov 30 00:16:52 me Nov 30 00:17:02 where did all the tmobile deals go for the n900 Nov 30 00:17:04 In UK Nov 30 00:17:38 someone else help timeless_mbp Nov 30 00:18:24 anyone? Nov 30 00:18:46 why arent there any t-mobile deals for the n900 anymore? Nov 30 00:19:08 pupnik: it's fairly simple (it does require root) Nov 30 00:19:08 MrGoose: I think I heard mention of a quota being used up Nov 30 00:19:17 really? Nov 30 00:19:26 that sucks Nov 30 00:19:30 ok found my answer at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=399836 Nov 30 00:20:12 MrGoose: Well, note the uncertainty in my comment :-) Nov 30 00:20:12 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-launch-delayed-115875-21850329/ Nov 30 00:22:51 hi, is anyone using Email app with a Gmail IMAP account? Nov 30 00:23:44 MrGoose: http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-review/ is more useful Nov 30 00:23:49 or http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-launch-delayed/ Nov 30 00:33:07 love that comment: http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-review/comment-page-1/#comment-48921 thanks timeless for giving me a good laugh, appreciated =) Nov 30 00:33:51 mikhas: i haven't read the article yet Nov 30 00:34:26 hos easy is it to port desktop application to maemo ? Nov 30 00:34:37 what the hell? you need multitouch so you can use it one handed? are they on crack? Nov 30 00:34:59 well, the follow-ups of that guy are a clear +5 funny: http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-review/comment-page-1/#comment-48921 Nov 30 00:35:04 yeah, it's great stuff Nov 30 00:35:28 err, http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-review/comment-page-1/#comment-48923 Nov 30 00:36:45 philosohper: depends on the app and the dependencies Nov 30 00:37:04 hos close is maemo from debian Nov 30 00:37:21 did they took out many core dependecies ? Nov 30 00:37:28 probably not as close as you would like Nov 30 00:37:58 ok Nov 30 00:38:21 would be cool to take a media player from desktop userland and put it on maemo6 Nov 30 00:38:29 what, like mplayer? Nov 30 00:38:42 more amarok Nov 30 00:38:44 philosohper, and what about UI? Nov 30 00:38:50 yeah, have fun with that ... Nov 30 00:39:00 amarok devs will probably do it for you Nov 30 00:39:13 ali1234: i thought java wasnt supported Nov 30 00:39:15 at least one of them has a n900 Nov 30 00:39:17 wat? Nov 30 00:39:30 amarok is a QT app? Nov 30 00:39:37 hooo nice Nov 30 00:39:38 well, KDE Nov 30 00:39:43 philosohper: Did you hear what i said about the rebate? Nov 30 00:39:45 So there is only 2 devices that run Maemo ? is there more on the way Nov 30 00:39:51 AakashPatel: no Nov 30 00:39:54 what about it Nov 30 00:39:58 Its till good in teh Nokia Store Nov 30 00:40:03 its still* Nov 30 00:40:04 tarelerulz: no and yes Nov 30 00:40:20 i still dont understand why maemo mix gnome and QT ? Nov 30 00:40:29 philosohper, because it is possible Nov 30 00:40:35 wouldnt be easier to use a KDE derivative ? Nov 30 00:40:46 look at the qt blogs Nov 30 00:40:53 => someone already did it Nov 30 00:40:55 ali1234: What do you mean no and yes ? Nov 30 00:41:03 philosohper: sure, if you want everything in maemo to be a huge sea of buttons and scrollbars Nov 30 00:41:06 mikhas: did what ? Nov 30 00:41:18 compile kde + plasma on the n900 Nov 30 00:41:20 tarelerulz: no, there arn't only 2 maemo devices, there are 4. and yes, there are more on the way. Nov 30 00:41:20 and run it Nov 30 00:42:19 mikhas: ok what more asking to understand if there were technical reason behind nokia decision Nov 30 00:42:40 maemo always had a strong gtk background? Nov 30 00:42:48 even before trolltech was bought? Nov 30 00:43:01 Do you all think Nokia is planing on doing something like google and putting out bunch of phones that run Nikia's Linux Nov 30 00:43:02 yes, previous maemo versions used gtk. then nokia bought trolltech, so they want to use what they bought. Nov 30 00:43:05 and why would you care? your qt apps will run on maemo5 Nov 30 00:43:22 otherwise they wouldn't have bought it Nov 30 00:43:53 interrestng Nov 30 00:44:10 tarelerulz: google don't make phones Nov 30 00:44:20 do we have an idea on how the dev env would change with maemo 6 Nov 30 00:44:28 ... Nov 30 00:44:31 i mean how will it be compatible with maemo5 ? Nov 30 00:44:47 go to gitorious and just take a look at the harmattan tech preview + widget gallery? Nov 30 00:45:15 mikhas: i know the UI will be completly revolt Nov 30 00:45:23 but i am talking more under the hood Nov 30 00:45:35 look at the code, lol Nov 30 00:45:51 then you know how complete and fundamental the change is going to be Nov 30 00:46:18 there was someone on t.m.o writing a pretty good technical review on the harmattan ui Nov 30 00:46:29 t.m.o ? Nov 30 00:46:46 philosohper, talk.maemo.org Nov 30 00:47:21 hi Nov 30 00:47:25 philosohper, http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=128 Nov 30 00:47:39 btw about ovi maps and offline maps Nov 30 00:47:43 http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=149 Nov 30 00:47:49 i heard it does work is that true ? Nov 30 00:47:50 http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=243 Nov 30 00:47:55 that were the 3 posts Nov 30 00:48:04 the forum talk@maemo.org need more or better mods Nov 30 00:48:05 pretty good overview, I'd say Nov 30 00:48:13 dddd1, what's the issue? Nov 30 00:48:16 there are so many trolls it's ridicoulus Nov 30 00:48:37 for example this guy Nov 30 00:48:38 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35258 Nov 30 00:48:48 Hi! I am wondering if the Koran app is coming for n900.> Nov 30 00:48:49 philosohper, it seems you can simply fetch the maps and store them on your n900 Nov 30 00:48:56 >I am also worried about scrolling... Can n900 handle so much crap at the same time? Nov 30 00:49:04 just ban this idiots Nov 30 00:49:18 his newest thread: Nov 30 00:49:21 >Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker? Nov 30 00:49:25 but again, look at t.m.o or so, I dont remember the links and dont have them in my browser's history Nov 30 00:49:35 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35435 Nov 30 00:49:52 or just move those thread to offtopic Nov 30 00:49:53 dddd1, that first link is actually kind of amusing, albeit annoying to have on the forums Nov 30 00:51:02 the ral question is what will happened to the n900 after maemo6 is out Nov 30 00:51:15 the forums were much nicer to read 1 month ago Nov 30 00:51:27 or the n900 - Yes it sucks thread Nov 30 00:51:40 dddd1, yeah, people are stupid Nov 30 00:51:45 it annoys me because the guys just want to provoke others Nov 30 00:52:16 I could easily point out big flaws in some of the Maemo 5 components, but I like it, and in any case, I wouldn't cause dissension like that Nov 30 00:53:11 it okay to point out flaws Nov 30 00:53:19 but not to provoke others Nov 30 00:53:29 it's just trolling Nov 30 00:53:43 * jaem nods Nov 30 00:53:51 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=383543&postcount=68 Nov 30 00:53:55 or this posting Nov 30 00:54:47 it was his secind posting Nov 30 00:54:58 * timeless_mbp pokes jaem Nov 30 00:55:05 * jaem is poked Nov 30 00:58:31 DROID ROCKS Nov 30 00:58:35 lol Nov 30 00:59:52 DROIDDD Nov 30 01:00:37 drois is pretty nice Nov 30 01:00:41 droid, too Nov 30 01:00:51 yea Nov 30 01:00:56 but verizon only :( Nov 30 01:00:59 thats a big dealbreaker Nov 30 01:01:02 for me Nov 30 01:01:09 i'm on the fence Nov 30 01:01:11 their network is fast Nov 30 01:01:27 theyre also commie lol Nov 30 01:01:29 and i have a dozen other phones ;/ Nov 30 01:01:37 Get an n900? Nov 30 01:01:44 yep Nov 30 01:01:53 i am think of getting booth Nov 30 01:02:02 btw AakashPatel about that rebate ? Nov 30 01:02:22 You can use it if you order from amazon Nov 30 01:02:25 and nokia Nov 30 01:02:26 both Nov 30 01:02:30 anywhere really Nov 30 01:06:27 nice Nov 30 01:06:39 so nokia price is really 569 -50 = 519 ? Nov 30 01:06:45 yep Nov 30 01:06:55 and tax if youre lucky Nov 30 01:07:11 plus 4 bucks (or 9 bucks if you're me) for shipping Nov 30 01:07:29 express is 9 bucks, so i was like 'hell lets go with it' Nov 30 01:11:25 AakashPatel: what about the cybermonday rebate ? Nov 30 01:11:33 i havent heard anything about it Nov 30 01:12:03 ok Nov 30 01:12:21 so..i want it tuesday so im ordering today lol Nov 30 01:12:31 tuesday or wed if they acutally mean "in stock" Nov 30 01:13:18 nokia price is you must join community and help us take over galaxy Nov 30 01:13:37 lol what? Nov 30 01:14:04 the "h" key injects nanite DNA patchers Nov 30 01:14:25 sorry, wrong chan Nov 30 01:23:28 Holy crap Nov 30 01:23:40 I have one 23" screen full of Growl notifications. Nov 30 01:24:19 sounds like you need to get a bigger screen Nov 30 01:24:39 Up, and it's got a bunch queued up for me too. Nov 30 01:25:25 I give up.. Making programs for maemo would be easier if I could make hello world AND run it in the freaking scratchbox :P Nov 30 01:25:39 name check Nov 30 01:25:58 Time to get some sleep.. 3:25 AM and I should be working by 10AM :P Nov 30 01:26:12 hey does anyone know if droid phone sell bye amazon can be use anywhere ? Nov 30 01:26:26 philosohper, this is #maemo. Nov 30 01:26:37 i know Nov 30 01:26:38 lol Nov 30 01:26:46 philosohper, wrong place to ask about Droid. :) Nov 30 01:27:00 It's CDMA, however. Nov 30 01:27:02 GeneralAntilles: ok didnt meant to troll Nov 30 01:27:02 lol Nov 30 01:27:04 So it'll only work in the US. Nov 30 01:27:11 thanks Nov 30 01:27:14 GeneralAntilles, is there an extension to the IRC protocol that slaps people with trout when they ask silly questions? :P Nov 30 01:27:21 you just prevent a catastrophy lol Nov 30 01:27:26 jaem, you tell me. :P Nov 30 01:27:48 anyone know where i can get an iphone that....j/k Nov 30 01:28:14 I keep clicking these things and new ones keep popping up. :( Nov 30 01:28:37 GeneralAntilles, early versions of KDE4 had a bug where notifications wouldn't disappear Nov 30 01:28:48 so they'd just stack up three times the height of your screen in no time Nov 30 01:28:48 :P Nov 30 01:30:30 serious question: i know how to make a Xephyr screen that mimicks n900's resolution, but how would i go about mimicking the screen dimensions, ie 3.5 in? Nov 30 01:30:45 stand further away Nov 30 01:30:51 use a smaller monitor Nov 30 01:30:58 aspidites, buy yourself an N900 LCD and wire it up to DVI? Nov 30 01:30:59 increase desktop resolution Nov 30 01:31:14 use vnc with scaling function Nov 30 01:31:30 icuk, the vnc idea sounds more feasible, will try that. Nov 30 01:31:44 xvnc Nov 30 01:31:45 lol, crashanddie is a whore. Nov 30 01:31:46 standing further away wouldn't work as i'm already nearly legally blind and don't have a wireless keyboard Nov 30 01:32:06 aspidites, how do you find normal ui work? Nov 30 01:32:14 some vnc's offer a scaling feature but you loose resolution and sharpness of course Nov 30 01:32:30 GeneralAntilles, which post? Nov 30 01:32:45 lcuk, the bit about the passport in here. Nov 30 01:33:22 aspidites: if you're using VNC anyway, might use Xvnc instead of Xephyr Nov 30 01:33:35 Icuk. not sure i understand the question. Nov 30 01:34:05 does xvnc support enough extensions for maemo? Nov 30 01:34:07 n900 order placed :D Nov 30 01:34:08 Your order is now in place and is estimated to take 1-3 days to reach you. Nov 30 01:34:21 congrats aakashpatel. Nov 30 01:34:26 AakashPatel, woot Nov 30 01:34:32 :D Nov 30 01:34:34 im excited Nov 30 01:34:35 lol Nov 30 01:34:50 others wait since 1-3 months for it :P Nov 30 01:35:12 Haha Nov 30 01:35:15 Nokia USA ftw Nov 30 01:35:25 will check that out luke-jr. sharpness i'm not too worried about. i'm just trying to convert an app i am developing to maemo/hildon and wanted to get a true idea of how much screen real estate i had Nov 30 01:35:27 AakashPatel, try getting one in Canada Nov 30 01:35:27 grats aakashpatel Nov 30 01:35:33 well .. i wait, others can be the test bunnies :P Nov 30 01:35:44 jaem: Pay me and ill ship one to you Nov 30 01:35:45 haha Nov 30 01:35:47 I was lucky to get mine two days before they launched, since I'm doing a university project Nov 30 01:35:58 aspidites, the firsttime i experienced maemo5 was with vnc onto my n810 :) Nov 30 01:36:04 lcuk, lol Nov 30 01:36:08 from the SDK? Nov 30 01:36:11 alright, noob question: for some odd reason I cant find the place in the maemo talk user CP to edit sigs...anyone point me to it? Nov 30 01:36:17 from qwertys sdk actually Nov 30 01:36:23 according to search it should be in edit options Nov 30 01:36:25 * jaem points to a page on his screen Nov 30 01:36:26 but it isnt there... Nov 30 01:37:28 Chapbass, how many posts do you have? Nov 30 01:37:35 ah, that might be why Nov 30 01:37:40 just signed up today...3 posts i think Nov 30 01:37:41 aspidites: you should not be using pixels anyway. Nov 30 01:37:43 aspidites: you can make a screenshot and scale it down :P Nov 30 01:38:02 cehteh, just push printscreen really fast, eh/ Nov 30 01:38:04 was just about to ask if there was a restriction on that Nov 30 01:38:10 aspidites: design everything in inches (or centimeters if you like metric), and let the widgets do their job of fitting pixels Nov 30 01:38:14 Chapbass, think it's 5. Nov 30 01:38:19 or use some compositing window manager which supports window scaling Nov 30 01:38:27 /zooming Nov 30 01:38:27 alright, thanks GeneralAntilles Nov 30 01:38:31 well i dont know any Nov 30 01:38:53 or momemnt compiz allows that? zoom out too? Nov 30 01:39:01 i dont use that crap :P Nov 30 01:39:11 lol Nov 30 01:39:43 luke-jr, well i figured i needed to match the n900's resolution to get a real idea of how things would scale Nov 30 01:39:57 certainly Nov 30 01:40:41 aspidites: if it makes a difference, it's a bug Nov 30 01:42:00 i'm not worried about widgets not fitting - thats what layout managers are for. i'm worrying about the interface feeling too crowded. i guess though that "perception" should be resolution independent... Nov 30 01:42:57 aspidites, I missed the beginning - where are you doing your development? Nov 30 01:43:12 in his bedroom Nov 30 01:43:30 lcuk, har har... I meant in what environment on his computer Nov 30 01:43:43 :D Nov 30 01:43:46 * lcuk beds anyway Nov 30 01:43:48 Icuk. your joke is wrong. that should have been mother's basement if i recall Nov 30 01:43:50 gnite guys Nov 30 01:43:58 g'night, lcuk Nov 30 01:44:05 i'm developing under linux Nov 30 01:44:17 aspidites, in scratchbox, or externally, though? Nov 30 01:44:18 2.6.31 kernel if that matters Nov 30 01:44:22 scratchbox Nov 30 01:44:26 ah, I see Nov 30 01:45:26 really just started so i haven't really committed to a set up yet. figured it would be easiest to do everything from inside scratchbox though, other than ui design, which i do wiht designer (qt) Nov 30 01:47:48 may just wait until i get my device though. btw i envy all of you that have already received one Nov 30 01:48:00 hmm... yeah I just checked if Xephyr supports scaling, and it doesn't look like it Nov 30 01:48:13 aspidites, if I'm around, feel free to ask me to test your app Nov 30 01:48:44 which WM are you using? Nov 30 01:48:49 lkjgcx Nov 30 01:48:58 Nov 30 01:49:30 if i'm playing around or demoing linux to friends kde 4.3, if i'm working musca Nov 30 01:50:27 hmm... yeah, I guess your only option for scaling would be vnc, then Nov 30 01:50:31 that must be annoying Nov 30 01:52:17 damn. i'll deal. i still need to refactor the UI/UX anyways Nov 30 01:52:21 anyone familiar with the crash reproter? Nov 30 01:52:25 *reporter? Nov 30 01:52:37 aspidites, what are you working on, if you don't mind telling? Nov 30 01:53:35 right now its little more than a deck editor for a trading card game, but ideally it would allow you to play the tcg online with friends Nov 30 01:53:44 neat Nov 30 01:53:52 ran into road blocks, then i set eyes on n900 and wanted to port :-) Nov 30 01:54:08 what was your initial target? Nov 30 01:55:00 cross platform. but linux > windows > mac (some of the libraries that the program currently depends on are a pita to install on os x) Nov 30 01:55:26 i doubt posting urls is allowed here ,but i have a dev blog documenting my success/failure with the project Nov 30 01:55:41 go ahead Nov 30 01:55:45 there's no issue with that Nov 30 01:55:47 p339.tuxfamily.org Nov 30 01:57:43 aside from some coding roadblocks, i ran into life problems as well which helped stagnate development Nov 30 01:58:01 it looks good, althouigh TCGs aren't really my thing Nov 30 01:59:11 right. kind of a niche project. really i just didn't like a similar project that runs on windows because there was no support for linux and the community was rather...rude? Nov 30 01:59:27 * jaem nods Nov 30 01:59:34 that's as good a reason as any Nov 30 02:00:02 plus it was closed source and i figured my project was open source so if it ever picked up and i quite someone else could continue Nov 30 02:00:16 you developed anything for maemo yet? Nov 30 02:00:50 a bit Nov 30 02:01:03 an initial port of a game in August that I haven't gotten back to yer >_< Nov 30 02:01:13 and I'm working on a research project at university Nov 30 02:01:16 under wraps, though Nov 30 02:01:36 I'm fighting with BlueZ docs right now for that project :/ Nov 30 02:01:48 do you have any experience with it? Nov 30 02:02:50 nope. never had any reason too, though i imagine i will. Nov 30 02:03:09 i'm thinking i might want to develop some widgets before i tackle porting my project. Nov 30 02:03:22 what toolkit are you leveraging? Nov 30 02:03:24 yeah, I was thinking of that Nov 30 02:03:26 Qt4 Nov 30 02:03:40 nice. pyqt or is pyside usable? Nov 30 02:03:41 the backend library is done mostly in C Nov 30 02:03:48 wrapped in Qt Nov 30 02:03:53 and then a C++/Qt frontend Nov 30 02:03:58 a c++ nvm Nov 30 02:04:07 we need the speed Nov 30 02:04:11 dunno why i assumed python ;-) Nov 30 02:04:42 esp. considering you said game. wish i had the time/patience to mess with c/++ again Nov 30 02:05:05 this isn't a game Nov 30 02:05:07 that was somethng else Nov 30 02:05:09 not that i remember anthing about either other than i hate semi-colons Nov 30 02:05:30 lol Nov 30 02:07:13 jaem: so... can strace save us? :( Nov 30 02:09:44 timeless_mbp, never used it - what do you need done? Nov 30 02:10:02 apt-get install strace [probably tools repo?] Nov 30 02:10:23 strace -f /usr/bin/maemo-summoner /usr/bin/worldclock.launch Nov 30 02:10:26 (something like that) Nov 30 02:19:02 well thansk all. thinking about frequenting this channel more often once i get the ball rolling again. Nov 30 02:20:02 aspidites, please do - glad to help out Nov 30 02:20:07 fast hard tough dixon me all night long Nov 30 02:22:04 (mistell was for #football) Nov 30 02:27:59 someone know about the cybermonday thing ? Nov 30 02:37:33 Does anyone see libc-dev-bin in their package list? Nov 30 02:39:20 wow Nov 30 02:39:29 grace jones was one ugly bitch Nov 30 02:39:31 hahahahaha\ Nov 30 02:40:05 'was' ? Nov 30 02:40:40 oh Nov 30 02:40:42 she isn't dead Nov 30 02:40:54 well. if she is alive.. then damn she is still one ugly bitch Nov 30 02:40:56 hahaha Nov 30 02:52:15 anyone posted instructions for getting pipe shortcut back in xterm yet? Nov 30 02:53:16 sdk or on the device? Nov 30 02:53:43 ShadowJK_, that reminds me - is there a fix for vim doing strange things on the N900? Nov 30 02:53:54 like when I type :q, and it types a newline and a capital 'M' Nov 30 02:54:46 I'm not a vim user really, have only used vi in a pinch :) Nov 30 02:55:03 ShadowJK_, ah. vi works fine Nov 30 02:55:19 but I often try to fiddle with code in CS class, remoting one of my computers, and it doesn't play nicely Nov 30 02:55:23 cehteh: device mostly. is it different in the sdk? Nov 30 02:55:25 in fact, I generally have to kill it Nov 30 02:55:57 ...in doing so, I found out that my uni's server nicely mails you a note telling you how to recover your files from vi or ed if the connection hangs up on you Nov 30 02:55:59 :) Nov 30 02:56:20 i read about some shortcut with the function key ... you dont have the function key on the sdk Nov 30 02:59:29 * ShadowJK_ added | with some gconftool abuse **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 30 02:59:58 2009