**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 11 02:59:56 2009
Dec 11 03:03:30 <jebba> fnordianslip you maintain it?  One thing I noticed about it is that it had it's Yes/No confirm buttons (I was perhaps deleting a file) opposite from what i've seen throughout the system, where yes is usually on top
Dec 11 03:03:33 <jebba> fwiw
Dec 11 03:03:53 <fnordianslip> jebba: maintain what?
Dec 11 03:04:38 <fnordianslip> i'm having a go at getting conky into extras-devel
Dec 11 03:04:51 <redeeman> any of you that have the problem that sometimes the rss widget doesn't autoupdate as its supposed to?
Dec 11 03:05:44 <fnordianslip> redeeman: i've never used it since chinook - it sucked then.  i like the iphone version of google reader
Dec 11 03:06:08 <redeeman> i also suspect it of not doing conditional get
Dec 11 03:07:40 <jebba> fnordianslip ahhh i was thinking of conboy
Dec 11 03:07:53 <fnordianslip> ah. np
Dec 11 03:09:38 <redeeman> any of you that mounts a microsd card as ext3 or something?
Dec 11 03:13:12 <jebba> redeeman: i formatted it and mounted it ext3, but havent started using it yet.  It works though.
Dec 11 03:13:26 <redeeman> i was thinking of doing that for a debian chroot
Dec 11 03:13:30 <jebba> it complains each time on boot that its not a readable format, but i can manually mount it ok
Dec 11 03:13:47 <redeeman> why does it read the microsd on boot?
Dec 11 03:14:38 <jebba> well, i suppose had i formatted it vfat it may mount it somewhere or something.
Dec 11 03:14:58 <Scummer> qemu is not starting even tho i installed the cpu transparent devkit...
Dec 11 03:15:06 <Scummer> anyone else experienced the same prob ?
Dec 11 03:15:49 <jebba> i believe so. I think i've heard some couldnt get the arm qemu working in the scratchbox
Dec 11 03:16:36 <jebba> i think it croaked on me too, actually. But i didnt really look into it as i havent needed it yet. You can test your apps in the scratchbox in i386 format...
Dec 11 03:17:02 <Scummer> but what if you want to actually move the bin over to your phone ?
Dec 11 03:17:10 <Scummer> it has to be in armel format, no ?
Dec 11 03:17:32 <jebba> ya, you can still build it in ARM format even without qemu
Dec 11 03:17:51 <jebba> so you can build for x86 and ARM, test in scratchbox in x86, then copy over the arm debs to the fone for use.
Dec 11 03:17:54 <Scummer> yeah.. that worked.. i have the modest trunk compiled.. and i'm trying to run it now
Dec 11 03:18:29 <Scummer> i just need to figure out the qemu thingy
Dec 11 03:18:46 <jebba> you may not *need* to, if you're lucky.  On
Dec 11 03:19:00 <jebba> ONly if your app behaves differently on ARM than on X86
Dec 11 03:19:11 <Scummer> i guess it shouldn't...
Dec 11 03:19:27 <Scummer> i was even thinking of just moving the bin into my home dir and start it from there
Dec 11 03:19:32 <Scummer> on the phone
Dec 11 03:19:42 <jebba> huh?
Dec 11 03:20:04 <Scummer> copy all libs and the bin over to the home dir on the phone i meant
Dec 11 03:20:16 <jebba> by the way, what is the "cpu transparent devkit" ? you mean the regular SDK?
Dec 11 03:20:19 <Scummer> just set the LD path and it should work...
Dec 11 03:20:24 <jebba> ah
Dec 11 03:20:45 <Scummer> Have you installed & selected the CPU transparency devkit?
Dec 11 03:20:46 <Scummer> see
Dec 11 03:20:49 <Scummer> that's the error message
Dec 11 03:21:04 <jebba> (12:20:16 AM) jebba: by the way, what is the "cpu transparent devkit" ? you mean the regular SDK?
Dec 11 03:21:34 <Scummer> i don't really know what the transparent devkit does.. but i know a deb package exists for it
Dec 11 03:21:50 <jebba> where did you get it from ?
Dec 11 03:21:50 <Scummer> now i tried to install it but it failed :/
Dec 11 03:22:05 <jebba> http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py    <--- that's the standard way to install the SDK
Dec 11 03:22:32 <Scummer> i used the scratchbox-install script and the maemo-sdk install script
Dec 11 03:22:41 <derf> There are two devkits.
Dec 11 03:22:46 <Scummer> i followed the wiki.maemo.org
Dec 11 03:22:49 <derf> cputransp is the old one.
Dec 11 03:22:55 <derf> qemu is the new one.
Dec 11 03:23:29 <derf> When you configure your ARMEL target, you should select the qemu one (specifically, qemu-arm-sb, as the transparency method).
Dec 11 03:23:30 <jebba> derf: can you give me URLs to old/new so i can see what is what?
Dec 11 03:23:44 <derf> jebba: Not really, no.
Dec 11 03:23:52 <jebba> ?
Dec 11 03:23:54 <derf> They're pacakges in your distribution.
Dec 11 03:24:01 <Scummer> derf: now when i try to select a devkit, i used the sb-menu and selected qemu-arm-sb for the devkit
Dec 11 03:24:14 <derf> You could Google for them and find the upstream ones, but that's probably not terribly helpful.
Dec 11 03:24:22 <jebba> derf: what are the names for them in debian and/or fedora?
Dec 11 03:24:30 <derf> Scummer: Okay, that's the correct thing to do.
Dec 11 03:24:36 <derf> jebba: No idea. I don't use either.
Dec 11 03:24:55 <Scummer> derf: but its still not working... i must be missing something
Dec 11 03:24:56 <derf> But I'll bet they're something with "devkit" and "cputransp" and/or "qemu" in the name.
Dec 11 03:25:01 <jebba> derf: what do you use?
Dec 11 03:25:04 <derf> Gentoo.
Dec 11 03:25:35 <jebba> $ apt-cache search cputransp
Dec 11 03:25:35 <jebba> scratchbox-devkit-cputransp - CPU transparency methods
Dec 11 03:25:44 <jebba> nothing in fedora comes up
Dec 11 03:25:47 <derf> That would be the old one.
Dec 11 03:26:06 <derf> I.e., for Diablo and before.
Dec 11 03:26:21 <Scummer> under show target info it does show qemu as the devkit
Dec 11 03:26:27 <Scummer> ok.. lets see
Dec 11 03:26:36 <derf> Scummer: What's "not working"?
Dec 11 03:26:41 <jebba> scratchbox-devkit-qemu  that one (plus more like -git) comes up in debian
Dec 11 03:26:58 <derf> jebba: Yes, that's the new one for Fremantle.
Dec 11 03:27:09 <Scummer> jebba : hang on.. let me try to narrow this down
Dec 11 03:27:11 <jebba> but i haven't seen docs talking about this. Scummer what page are you talking about in the wiki? URL?
Dec 11 03:27:27 <Scummer> this one : http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Starting.2FShutting_down_the_SDK_UI
Dec 11 03:28:12 <jebba> ah, ya, i guess i just installed that with the "wizard"
Dec 11 03:28:19 <derf> I actually mostly followed http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Manual_Installation
Dec 11 03:28:27 <derf> Since, of course, I'm not using Debian or any Debian-based system.
Dec 11 03:28:56 <Scummer> yep.. the manual_installation part is what i followed as well
Dec 11 03:29:28 <derf> Scummer: Anyway, you still haven't said what doesn't work.
Dec 11 03:30:11 <Scummer> derf: ok.. when i try to do a run-standalone.sh modest -s then i get this:
Dec 11 03:30:32 <Scummer>  /usr/bin/run-standalone.sh: line 2: qemu:: command not found
Dec 11 03:30:43 <Scummer> so qemu is not working right it appears
Dec 11 03:30:59 <Scummer>  /scratchbox/tools/bin/qemu: No qemu binary found.
Dec 11 03:31:21 <Scummer> that so far seems to be my main problem in getting this stuff to work
Dec 11 03:32:13 <derf> Does /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin/ have qemu-arm-sb in it?
Dec 11 03:32:32 <Scummer> this seems to be a python script that selects qemu based on the devkit selected it seems
Dec 11 03:32:53 <Scummer> yes it does contain it
Dec 11 03:33:03 <Scummer> and it runs
Dec 11 03:33:35 <jebba> i'm outta here for the night and not much work again til monday.  have fun all ciao and good luck  :)
Dec 11 03:33:57 <Scummer> i have a feeling the sb-menu program doesn't select the qemu devkit correctly ?
Dec 11 03:34:10 <Scummer> jebba : g'nite
Dec 11 03:35:01 <Scummer> even tho under show target info inside sb-menu it does show qemu-arm-sb for CPU-transparency
Dec 11 03:36:41 <Scummer> the /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin is also in my PATH
Dec 11 03:36:59 <Scummer> so the qemu python script should find the damn thing
Dec 11 03:38:18 <derf> I actually don't think that file should even be run.
Dec 11 03:38:27 <derf> It certainly doesn't work on my scratchbox.
Dec 11 03:38:48 <Scummer> hmm.. how do you start your programs ?
Dec 11 03:38:53 <derf> You just run them.
Dec 11 03:39:01 <derf> Scratchbox figures out if they need emulation.
Dec 11 03:39:04 <Scummer> i wish that worked :)
Dec 11 03:39:19 <derf> If I actually try to run qemu it gives me the same error you get.
Dec 11 03:39:26 <Scummer> interesting
Dec 11 03:39:40 <Scummer> so.. if you run modest, does it pop up in xephyr ?
Dec 11 03:40:26 <derf> Apparently no.
Dec 11 03:40:47 <derf> It just exits without error.
Dec 11 03:40:55 <Scummer> ok.. same behavior here
Dec 11 03:41:01 <Scummer> it just exits
Dec 11 03:41:07 <derf> But that's to be expected, as dbus isn't running.
Dec 11 03:41:20 <Scummer> hmm.. so when you start the UI shouldn't it work then ?
Dec 11 03:41:33 <Scummer> so af-sb-init.sh start ?
Dec 11 03:41:38 <Scummer> and then modest ?
Dec 11 03:41:49 <derf> Except that af-sb-init.sh does not work in the ARMEL target.
Dec 11 03:41:56 <Scummer> uahhh
Dec 11 03:42:00 <derf> It did on prior SDK releases, but not Fremantle.
Dec 11 03:42:11 <Scummer> ahhh.. fuuuck
Dec 11 03:42:12 <derf> Don't ask me why.
Dec 11 03:42:13 <Scummer> how come ?
Dec 11 03:42:15 <Scummer> oh
Dec 11 03:42:16 <Scummer> ok
Dec 11 03:42:34 <Scummer> so i pretty much wasted the whole day trying to figure that one out... lol
Dec 11 03:42:35 <derf> I don't know. I just know it's a known problem, and the answer is, "Debug in the i386 target, or on the device."
Dec 11 03:42:51 <Scummer> *snicker* debug on the device
Dec 11 03:43:00 <Scummer> and brick it while your at it :)
Dec 11 03:43:08 <Scummer> you're even
Dec 11 03:43:12 <derf> You should expect to brick your device more than once.
Dec 11 03:43:21 <Scummer> i guess as long as it can be flashed
Dec 11 03:43:37 <derf> Make regular back-ups.
Dec 11 03:43:56 <Scummer> i have only phone numbers so far as data.. and they are all on my sim
Dec 11 03:44:03 <Scummer> so it would be no loss to reflash
Dec 11 03:44:12 <Scummer> hmmm
Dec 11 03:44:27 <Scummer> ok.. time to copy the binaries to the phone
Dec 11 03:44:48 <Scummer> i really want to know if the trunk modest cures the problem with the large inbox
Dec 11 03:45:04 <derf> I doubt it.
Dec 11 03:45:16 <Scummer> i thought in the bug report it said it's fixed..
Dec 11 03:45:41 <derf> Well, then maybe you're in luck. I've been complaining about it since modest first existed.
Dec 11 03:45:46 <derf> Which is something like 2 years now.
Dec 11 03:45:47 <Scummer> email is one important app i really would like to use
Dec 11 03:45:59 <derf> I just use webmail. It's the only client that actually works.
Dec 11 03:46:09 <Scummer> eek
Dec 11 03:46:14 <derf> modest has been mostly a disaster.
Dec 11 03:46:16 <Scummer> sounds kinda awful to use
Dec 11 03:46:20 <derf> And the client before that was worse.
Dec 11 03:46:27 <Scummer> ouch
Dec 11 03:46:38 <Scummer> doesn't sound promising
Dec 11 03:46:45 <derf> Webmail is not the easiest thing to use, no, but it has the advantage of actually working.
Dec 11 03:46:56 <Scummer> but no notifications and stuff
Dec 11 03:46:57 <derf> And doesn't fall apart just because you have 20,000 messages in your inbox.
Dec 11 03:47:04 <Scummer> pain in the nuts.. especially for business use
Dec 11 03:47:37 <Scummer> *sigh* i do love the phone.. but the crackberry for email was definitely better
Dec 11 03:47:37 <derf> Well, no one says you have to use the same app to read your mail as you do to get notifications for it.
Dec 11 03:47:48 <Scummer> hmm.. ok
Dec 11 03:47:55 <Scummer> just don't open modest
Dec 11 03:48:04 <Scummer> so tinymail is pulling the email
Dec 11 03:48:12 <Scummer> and modest is just the frontend i assume
Dec 11 03:52:24 <derf> Haha, as much fun as I had with the autobuilder, it could have been worse: http://www.sirena.org.uk/log/2009/12/09/oh-dear/
Dec 11 03:58:09 <ali1234> is there such a thing as a DECT to SIP bridge?
Dec 11 04:00:06 <Scummer> known issues in the SDK: Armel target does not bring up the UI framework
Dec 11 04:00:12 <Scummer> do I feel like an idiot know
Dec 11 04:01:30 <Scummer> reading is definitely advantageous
Dec 11 04:05:37 <Arkenoi> ali1234, i've seen dect handset with sip-capable base
Dec 11 04:05:49 <ali1234> i want the reverse
Dec 11 04:06:29 <ali1234> i want a box that connects my SIP phone (n900/n800) to my existing DECT base station
Dec 11 04:06:45 <ali1234> i know you can get SIP to PSTN base stations
Dec 11 04:07:02 <Arkenoi> you have dect and no fxo?
Dec 11 04:07:12 <ali1234> fxo?
Dec 11 04:07:30 <Arkenoi> why not just use wifi?
Dec 11 04:07:39 <ali1234> because i can't make phone calls on wifi?
Dec 11 04:07:43 <Arkenoi> "old" analogue phone line
Dec 11 04:07:52 <ali1234> no
Dec 11 04:08:08 <Arkenoi> ali1234, why?
Dec 11 04:08:20 <ali1234> i want to make and receive landline calls from my n900
Dec 11 04:08:45 <Arkenoi> just replace your dect phone station with softswitch
Dec 11 04:08:53 <Arkenoi> and route it via wifi
Dec 11 04:08:54 <Scummer> install a fxo card in a linux box and run asterisk ?
Dec 11 04:09:09 <Arkenoi> Scummer, exactly
Dec 11 04:09:14 <ali1234> i want to be able to use the DECT phones and the N900 simultaneously
Dec 11 04:09:26 <Arkenoi> or just buy cheap chinese box that will do the same
Dec 11 04:09:43 <ali1234> so rather than use an analogue box (which i know exists)
Dec 11 04:09:52 <Scummer> i didn't know those exist.. i do use a cheap fxo in my answering machine
Dec 11 04:10:00 <ali1234> i want the exact same thing but with a DECT receiver in it, rather than analogue PSTN jack
Dec 11 04:10:12 <ali1234> so, do those exist?
Dec 11 04:10:25 <ali1234> i know you can get a DECT PCMCIA card
Dec 11 04:10:41 <ali1234> so i could use one of those with an old laptop and asterisk
Dec 11 04:10:45 <Scummer> you can't run the dect phone parallel with the fxo card ?
Dec 11 04:10:48 <ali1234> but i'd prefer a simple solution
Dec 11 04:10:57 <ali1234> i don't know, maybe
Dec 11 04:11:06 <ali1234> in fact, yeah, i could
Dec 11 04:11:13 <Scummer> there ya go
Dec 11 04:11:44 <Scummer> you just can't conference between the dect and your SIP
Dec 11 04:11:51 <ali1234> yeah
Dec 11 04:11:53 <Scummer> or handover
Dec 11 04:12:03 <ali1234> if i answer the DECT phone, i can't then transfer it to the SIP
Dec 11 04:12:09 <ali1234> which is kind of what i want
Dec 11 04:12:12 <Scummer> oh
Dec 11 04:12:13 <Scummer> ok
Dec 11 04:12:27 <ali1234> if i answer it on the SIP, i can transfer to the DECT
Dec 11 04:12:30 <ali1234> but not the reverse
Dec 11 04:13:30 <GeneralAntilles> Woo, random bloggers are following me on Twitter.
Dec 11 04:13:58 <Scummer> ali : how do you transfer from sip to dect ?
Dec 11 04:15:08 <ali1234> Scummer: just pick up any dect phone and you'll be in the conversation
Dec 11 04:16:18 <ali1234> actually i could probably rig the SIP to have a special "just pick up" number too
Dec 11 04:16:46 <Scummer> oh.. so it's not a true transfer
Dec 11 04:16:48 <ali1234> so it is probably workable with an analogue box
Dec 11 04:16:49 <Scummer> ok
Dec 11 04:18:48 <Scummer> http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/DECT
Dec 11 04:18:57 <Scummer> ali : check this out
Dec 11 04:19:09 <Scummer> http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Siemens+Gigaset+C470IP
Dec 11 04:19:11 <ali1234> yeah i read it, but it is mostly about doing the reverse
Dec 11 04:19:16 <Scummer> ip base station
Dec 11 04:19:30 <Scummer> so you can use dect phone with sip phones
Dec 11 04:19:44 <ali1234> as stated, that's the exact opposite of what i want
Dec 11 04:19:51 <ali1234> i want to use my sip phone with my landline
Dec 11 04:20:13 <ali1234> i don't know anyone who uses sip, or have any interest in using it, other than for this purpose
Dec 11 04:20:14 <Scummer> but that would enable to use your sip phone with the landline, no ?
Dec 11 04:20:18 <ali1234> no
Dec 11 04:20:30 <ali1234> it would enable me to use dect handsets to make and receive sip calls
Dec 11 04:20:43 <ali1234> i want to use a sip handset to make and receive dect calls
Dec 11 04:22:58 <Scummer> but dect is just the wireless phone.. you still need the base station with a PSTN ?
Dec 11 04:23:31 <Scummer> i'm confused
Dec 11 04:24:44 <ali1234> yes
Dec 11 04:25:03 <ali1234> that's the whole point, i want to keep my base station, and all my dect phones
Dec 11 04:25:54 <Scummer> oh.. but it might be cheaper to get a new set of phones with a base station that supports SIP as well.. of course i haven't looked at prices yet
Dec 11 04:26:18 <jebba900> wifi base + FXO would do it no?
Dec 11 04:26:28 <ali1234> yes probably
Dec 11 04:26:34 <Scummer> jebba : you still need a comp as well ?
Dec 11 04:26:41 <jebba900> no
Dec 11 04:27:14 <jebba900> of course the wifi base + fxo could be an asterisk box with all that
Dec 11 04:27:29 <ali1234> i just want to be able to do landline calls on n900, without disrupting the existing dect setup in any way
Dec 11 04:27:34 <Scummer> how do you translate sip to analogue with just a fxo box ?
Dec 11 04:28:03 <Scummer> and a wifi base?
Dec 11 04:28:29 <jebba900> example: common linksys router + ethernet to a sipura which plugs into the wall
Dec 11 04:29:50 <ali1234> yeah, i know about those, i nearly bought one
Dec 11 04:29:53 <Scummer> oh.. so the sipura box is actually a sip to fco converter?  i guess i was just thinking about a simple fxo pci card
Dec 11 04:30:20 <ali1234> i want that, except with a DECT receiver in it, instead of the analogue jack :)
Dec 11 04:30:29 <jebba900> i havent used sipuras for a few years. im sure theres lots of equivalents nw
Dec 11 04:30:48 <jebba900> Scummer, correct
Dec 11 04:32:34 <jebba900> first time ive heard of dect but i just read up. if there are sipura like devicces wirth dect u are lucky. if not dect is still just a "regular" fone as far as the n900 would be concerned
Dec 11 04:33:10 <jebba900> or get dect in the rx71  ;)
Dec 11 04:33:31 <jebba900> now i'm really crashing out tho good nite!
Dec 11 04:33:40 <ali1234> yeah it looks like i don't really need the dect receiver, analogue would work just as well, with some tweaks
Dec 11 04:36:26 <Scummer> simpsons crack me up
Dec 11 04:37:15 <GeneralAntilles> Scummer, Simpsons hasn't been funny since the 90s.
Dec 11 04:38:43 <Scummer> GA, the reruns are probably from around that :)
Dec 11 04:38:57 <GeneralAntilles> Season 21.
Dec 11 04:38:58 <GeneralAntilles> Insanity.
Dec 11 04:40:23 <Scummer> it's the faith off episode running right now
Dec 11 04:40:34 <Scummer> season 11 episode 11
Dec 11 04:42:59 <ds3> what kind of hoops does one have to jump through if they want to get a N900 before xmas?
Dec 11 04:43:30 <luke-jr_> ds3: become slonopotamus
Dec 11 04:43:31 <hardaker2> ds3: pray
Dec 11 04:43:45 <luke-jr_> ds3: his local store just up and gave him one, he didn't even ask
Dec 11 04:43:45 <Scummer> ds3: short of whoring yourself out.. i don't know
Dec 11 04:44:13 <ds3> okay
Dec 11 04:44:42 <ds3> what about before the 1st week of Jan?
Dec 11 04:45:18 <GeneralAntilles> ds3, quite possibly ordering from NokiaUSA.
Dec 11 04:46:09 <luke-jr_> ds3: http://tinyurl.com/yjb9v6l
Dec 11 04:48:33 <ds3> GA: for xmas or for 1st week of jan?
Dec 11 04:49:21 <luke-jr_> ds3: IIRC, only the pre-orders were screwed
Dec 11 04:49:27 <ds3> oh
Dec 11 04:49:29 <luke-jr_> new orders shipped immediately
Dec 11 04:49:40 <luke-jr_> but I could be wrong
Dec 11 04:49:41 <ds3> luke-jr: I don't goto any sites on tinyurl
Dec 11 04:49:51 <luke-jr_> ds3: it's an image of the Pandora :p
Dec 11 04:49:59 <luke-jr_> one of the first real actual devices
Dec 11 04:50:03 <ds3> so it may be doable but only at the list $600ish price?
Dec 11 04:50:25 <luke-jr_> eh, what else?
Dec 11 04:50:43 <luke-jr_> the "list $600ish price" is the only way to get it period, unless you got enough forum points
Dec 11 04:50:52 <luke-jr_> or are slonopotamus
Dec 11 04:51:01 <ds3> thought Amazon/Dell had it for around $400-$500?
Dec 11 04:51:06 <ds3> but long lead times
Dec 11 04:51:22 <luke-jr_> meh, I don't know
Dec 11 04:51:35 <luke-jr_> doesn't make any sense to me why you could get it cheaper from a third party
Dec 11 04:51:54 <ds3> *shrug*
Dec 11 04:52:19 <ds3> just need to pamper the N800 for a few more months then :/
Dec 11 04:53:42 <ds3> the one thing I can see the N900 over the Pandora is the integrated datamodem
Dec 11 04:54:28 <GeneralAntilles> ds3, ignore luke-jr_. His usual pasttime is trolling.
Dec 11 04:54:39 <GeneralAntilles> Amazon and Newegg appear to be out.
Dec 11 04:54:49 <GeneralAntilles> Amazon only has it listed from a 3rd party at this point.
Dec 11 04:54:57 <pwnguin> ds3: also the n900 is in my hands, the pandora?
Dec 11 04:55:07 <GeneralAntilles> So if you want one, it looks like the likeliest option is to go direct.
Dec 11 04:55:18 <GeneralAntilles> Else you're probably going to have to wait if you want it cheaper.
Dec 11 04:55:37 <luke-jr_> ds3: if you can afford GSM service, that is indeed a nice benefit
Dec 11 04:57:37 <ds3> GA: I was considering it as a personal treat for going nuts the last few months but at $600, it is a bit steep and I think someone recommended against using the garnet emulator on the Nxx0 devices anyways
Dec 11 04:58:24 <ds3> luke-jr_: eh? $25 for 3 months isn't that expensive
Dec 11 04:58:35 <GeneralAntilles> ds3, troll. ;)
Dec 11 04:58:45 <GeneralAntilles> ds3, then wait for Amazon to get 'em back in stock at a lower price.
Dec 11 04:58:54 <luke-jr_> ds3: here, it's over $100/mo for the minimal plan
Dec 11 04:59:12 <luke-jr_> ds3: be glad you live in a half sane country
Dec 11 04:59:15 <ds3> GA: the part that stings the most is I paid sub $200 for my N800 and even less for the 770  (all new)
Dec 11 04:59:21 <GeneralAntilles> Ugh, bugzilla is currently filled with useless bugs.
Dec 11 05:00:02 <luke-jr_> ds3: I paid $800 for my C760
Dec 11 05:00:53 <ds3> luke-jr: but that's the price of an xscale device ;)
Dec 11 05:01:17 <luke-jr_> back in 2003 or so, yes
Dec 11 05:01:25 <GeneralAntilles> ds3, well, $600 is the price of being an early adopter. ;)
Dec 11 05:01:55 <luke-jr_> GeneralAntilles: I would gladly pay $800 for a N900 if it worked with all free software. ;)
Dec 11 05:01:57 <ds3> GA: understood.
Dec 11 05:02:04 <luke-jr_> oh, and if GSM service was affordable
Dec 11 05:02:16 <luke-jr_> or if it supported something practical here
Dec 11 05:02:19 * Arkenoi did not like Zaurus at all, "pocket desktop" with very poor PDA functionality looked quite silly
Dec 11 05:02:22 <ds3> then there is the price of giving up full size SD cards all together
Dec 11 05:02:30 <luke-jr_> Arkenoi: you're not supposed to use the default OS
Dec 11 05:02:39 <ds3> along with ANOTHER cable investment to use microusb
Dec 11 05:02:52 <luke-jr_> N900 doesn't include a USB cable?
Dec 11 05:03:01 <GeneralAntilles> Well, hopefully the MicroUSB thing will be better in the long term.
Dec 11 05:03:18 <GeneralAntilles> Since that's where the vast majority of devices are headed.
Dec 11 05:03:24 <ds3> I figure if the device is $600ish, I am not going to be able to be done with all the stuff I want for under $1K :(
Dec 11 05:03:30 <Arkenoi> luke-jr_, haven't seen anything impressive until it became outdated ;-)
Dec 11 05:03:48 <ds3> yes, but I have all the adapters for the mini-A/mini-B... even the "illegal" config ones
Dec 11 05:03:51 <GeneralAntilles> ds3, what? Extras chargers, cables, memory card(s)?
Dec 11 05:03:54 <luke-jr_> Arkenoi: IIRC I ran GPE OpenZaurus
Dec 11 05:04:11 <ds3> cables and LARGE sd cards, adapters to use regular SD
Dec 11 05:04:16 <luke-jr_> Arkenoi: also, I was in college then, so most of my usage was taking notes and playing music
Dec 11 05:04:37 <GeneralAntilles> Well, Amazon has Nokia MicroUSB cables for about $0.60 a piece, anyway.
Dec 11 05:04:39 <ds3> and it has to be compact too (I can do it cheaper if I am willing to have a pile of stuff bigger then the old motorola brick phones)
Dec 11 05:04:49 <ds3> microUSB to what?
Dec 11 05:04:54 <GeneralAntilles> USB
Dec 11 05:04:57 <luke-jr_> ...
Dec 11 05:05:04 <Arkenoi> luke-jr_, i used nokia 9k series those days, at least there was phone builtin
Dec 11 05:05:09 <ds3> USB A or USB B?
Dec 11 05:05:32 <ds3> I am using the N800 right now as more of a laptop device and the N900 is slated for similar use
Dec 11 05:06:01 <ds3> so I'd want to be able to goto a mini B, USB A and a USB B at the least
Dec 11 05:06:05 <luke-jr_> ds3: you're aware N900 does not support USB host mode? (or did someone figure it out, GeneralAntilles?)
Dec 11 05:06:21 <ds3> and probally a suitable hub for power
Dec 11 05:06:22 <pwnguin> does your 800 do that?
Dec 11 05:06:46 <ds3> yes! I have a miniB to full size A cable, mini-B to B
Dec 11 05:07:02 <ds3> came in really handy when I needed to take a peek at a thumb drive
Dec 11 05:07:11 * Arkenoi tries to think out a purpose for my old 770
Dec 11 05:07:12 <pwnguin> afaik, i have bad news for you
Dec 11 05:07:36 <pwnguin> n900 is b only
Dec 11 05:07:49 <luke-jr_> ...
Dec 11 05:07:55 <ds3> someone on this channel was telling me they got it working as a host
Dec 11 05:08:00 <luke-jr_> pwnguin: what does that mean? :P
Dec 11 05:08:16 <luke-jr_> the difference between A, mini-B, and B, AFAIK, is merely physical
Dec 11 05:08:24 <ds3> A/B are connectors
Dec 11 05:08:30 <ds3> I am interested in modes
Dec 11 05:08:42 <luke-jr_> so how could N900 be incapable of non-B adapters?
Dec 11 05:09:19 <pwnguin> ds3: well, id be interested in documentation if it's possible
Dec 11 05:10:42 <ds3> if they used the 4030 phy, it should be doable
Dec 11 05:10:54 * Arkenoi got funny maemo stickers with laser-eyed penguins with my n900, still cannot find a place for it
Dec 11 05:11:03 <ds3> probally a few i2c tweaks and some MUSB voodoo
Dec 11 05:15:03 <newbie003> greetings, I'm trying to connect my n900 to the internet via usb,, I read on the wiki that it should just be a matter of setting the ip address,, however this isn't working for me.  Can someone help me out?
Dec 11 05:15:47 <newbie003> the thing that I think could be the problem is that I when I set the IP address, I don't know if I am setting the correct one..
Dec 11 05:16:17 <newbie003> However I have tried both "192.168.2.15" and "192.168.2.14"
Dec 11 05:16:24 * hardaker2 suggests bying a $30 wireless access point ;-) it'd probably easier.
Dec 11 05:16:39 <newbie003> looking at this guide; http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking under Fedora 12
Dec 11 05:16:56 <newbie003> harddaker2: thanks, I couldn't get wifi working either
Dec 11 05:16:56 <luke-jr_> hardaker2: and a $30 wireless access point probably won't work sanely
Dec 11 05:17:25 <newbie003> I have a wireless USB device, and a modem that translates the modem to ethernet/wifi
Dec 11 05:17:40 <luke-jr_> ...
Dec 11 05:17:49 <newbie003> I can get on it using a wireless laptop, or ethernet, however not this phone
Dec 11 05:18:30 <newbie003> I read somewhere that the phone has a bug with some sort of wireless encryption,,
Dec 11 05:18:40 <Vratha> on a mac, are any of you experiencing the n900 creating several different network interfaces when you connect to the mac in "PC Suite Mode"?
Dec 11 05:18:48 <Vratha> it just likes to create a new name most of the time
Dec 11 05:18:49 <newbie003> Does the phone have a push button sort of wifi connection?
Dec 11 05:18:59 <Vratha> not sure if that's a problem on my mac or on the n900
Dec 11 05:19:22 <luke-jr_> newbie003: yes, for each packet you want to send, you need to press Esc...
Dec 11 05:19:23 <newbie003> I also tried the PIN method
Dec 11 05:19:31 <newbie003> ?
Dec 11 05:20:04 <newbie003> like-jr_: I'm not quite following,, I' don't know how many packets I would like to send, or when they would get sent
Dec 11 05:20:05 <luke-jr_> the escape key
Dec 11 05:20:16 <newbie003> I get the button,, you mean on the phone or the computer?
Dec 11 05:20:21 <luke-jr_> sigh
Dec 11 05:20:27 <luke-jr_> it's sarcasm because you're not making any sense
Dec 11 05:20:52 <newbie003> luke-jr_: please explain to me what I have not explained well
Dec 11 05:22:17 <newbie003> I've come to this room hoping to get help with connecting the n900 phone to my computer
Dec 11 05:22:23 <newbie003> troll
Dec 11 05:22:45 <wiretapped> newbie003: what OS?
Dec 11 05:22:57 <luke-jr_> he said Fedora 12
Dec 11 05:23:00 <newbie003> wiretapped: Fedora 12
Dec 11 05:23:09 <wiretapped> oh sorry
Dec 11 05:23:15 <newbie003> it should have CDC Ethernet support
Dec 11 05:23:16 <luke-jr_> newbie003: you haven't actually said what your problem is
Dec 11 05:23:25 <luke-jr_> just what you're supposedly tried
Dec 11 05:23:46 <newbie003> the problem is that I cannot connect to the internet using the telephone
Dec 11 05:24:17 <luke-jr_> what telephone?
Dec 11 05:24:19 <newbie003> when I plug in the phone I am prompted to hit "PC Suite" or something else,, I always hit PC Suite
Dec 11 05:24:20 <luke-jr_> you mean the GSM modem?
Dec 11 05:24:23 <newbie003> n900
Dec 11 05:24:32 <luke-jr_> N900 is not a telephone, but whatever.
Dec 11 05:24:35 <wiretapped> newbie003: are you trying to get your PC online via your N900? If so, USB networking is probably not what you want
Dec 11 05:24:52 <newbie003> ah
Dec 11 05:24:57 <wiretapped> http://anidel.blogspot.com/2009/10/n900-as-modem-for-ubuntu-910.html looks good
Dec 11 05:25:00 <newbie003> no
Dec 11 05:25:00 <luke-jr_> newbie003: you said you had wifi, right?
Dec 11 05:25:21 <newbie003> no no,  My computer is online,, I'm trying to get the phone online.
Dec 11 05:25:27 <wiretapped> oh!
Dec 11 05:25:39 <wiretapped> you don't have a wifi network?
Dec 11 05:25:40 <luke-jr_> newbie003: what exactly doesn't work with wifi?
Dec 11 05:25:42 <newbie003> I do have wifi
Dec 11 05:25:59 <wiretapped> what is the problem then?
Dec 11 05:26:05 <luke-jr_> does tcpdump show packets coming in on the N900? does it show them going out on the router?
Dec 11 05:26:22 <newbie003> I am not sure why wifi doesn't work, the wifi has somesort of special encryption method
Dec 11 05:26:33 <luke-jr_> you can't turn off encryption?
Dec 11 05:26:57 <newbie003> ok, do I perform tcpdump on the device or my computer
Dec 11 05:27:08 <luke-jr_> on the device first
Dec 11 05:27:10 <luke-jr_> then on the router
Dec 11 05:27:18 <luke-jr_> your computer is not in the picture for wifi
Dec 11 05:27:28 <wiretapped> ok i've got my own problem... am i understanding correctly that the n900 uses evolution data server but there isn't an easy way to sync it with evolution on my desktop?!
Dec 11 05:27:36 <wiretapped> i'm ready for a difficult way, but i haven't even found that
Dec 11 05:27:49 <newbie003> I have heard that this sort of wifi router doesn't always connect to some laptops, the router will redirect all traffic to a custom https webpage that requests a password
Dec 11 05:28:15 * wiretapped switched to evolution recently thinking it would work well with the N900
Dec 11 05:28:16 <newbie003> right,, makes since
Dec 11 05:28:23 <luke-jr_> newbie003: have you tried using the browser for that?
Dec 11 05:28:34 <sijk> secondly, is there plans for syncml/http support?
Dec 11 05:29:02 <newbie003> luke-jr_ yes, always the browser,, it always prompts me to connect to a wifi network - I am assumeing that means I am not connected
Dec 11 05:29:18 <luke-jr_> and when you tell it to connect??
Dec 11 05:29:53 <newbie003> after clicking PC Suite, nothing happens
Dec 11 05:30:07 <newbie003> tcpdump doesnt seem to be installed
Dec 11 05:30:38 <luke-jr_> ...
Dec 11 05:30:49 <newbie003> perhaps I need to be root
Dec 11 05:30:58 <newbie003> I cannot gainroot, because that is not installed
Dec 11 05:31:04 <luke-jr_> perhaps you need to tell it to connect over wifi first.
Dec 11 05:31:11 <luke-jr_> and report back what happens
Dec 11 05:32:02 <newbie003> luke-jr_: I thought I saw a propmpt once for a "Push Button" to connect to wifi,, aparently you can press a button on both router and wifi
Dec 11 05:32:12 <newbie003> sorry "both router and phone"
Dec 11 05:32:26 <newbie003> to connect the devices
Dec 11 05:32:44 <luke-jr_> ok, I'm done helping until you tell the N900 to connect to the wifi router and report what happens.
Dec 11 05:32:53 <newbie003> I can no longer find that prompt to "push a button" do you know if it exists?
Dec 11 05:33:13 <luke-jr_> open the browser, it should have a way to connect
Dec 11 05:33:51 <luke-jr_> and FYI, I've never seen a N900 before, so don't assume I have any idea what the normal stuff you might see is
Dec 11 05:34:13 <luke-jr_> nor have I used Fedora 12
Dec 11 05:34:35 <newbie003> luke-jr_: thanks
Dec 11 05:35:15 <newbie003> luke-jr_: ok I clicked the wireless connection, I get an error that says "Network connection error. Try again?"
Dec 11 05:35:36 <newbie003> perhaps a /var/log/wifi ?
Dec 11 05:36:40 <ShadowJK> btw, if the browser/flash is busy consuming all ram, and you tap titlebar to bring up menu, and tap options, and then ctrl-backspace away before options menu appears, with the dialog asking whether you want to kill browser or not appearing somewhere else and forcing you back to desktop, and the options menu in browser then finally appearing but the device then responding to another ctrl-backspace but sending you to desktop, the kill browser dialog does
Dec 11 05:36:43 <newbie003> I have no logs,, perhaps a root issue,,
Dec 11 05:36:46 <ShadowJK> nothing and blocks the UI
Dec 11 05:36:58 <newbie003> I think the thing for me to do is to try a different wifi connection somewhere
Dec 11 05:37:01 * ShadowJK had to ssh in and killall -o browserd :D
Dec 11 05:38:24 <cheeko> is there any other phone on which maemo runs?
Dec 11 05:38:34 <ShadowJK> no
Dec 11 05:38:40 <newbie003> my only other connection would be, when I set the mac address and hard-code the IP address which IP should I be using and what is the purpose for the other IP address
Dec 11 05:40:20 <cheeko> is it based on debian
Dec 11 05:40:41 <ds3> l
Dec 11 05:41:28 <ShadowJK> hm, now phone isn't charging anymore :D
Dec 11 05:41:42 <ShadowJK> cheeko: debian base   ish
Dec 11 05:43:33 <ShadowJK> hm, replugging helped
Dec 11 05:45:16 <luke-jr_> newbie003: I guess blame Nokia for not giving you error details. :(
Dec 11 05:45:28 <luke-jr_> can't troubleshoot a problem w/o a clue what went wrong
Dec 11 05:46:08 <luke-jr_> newbie003: as far as USB goes, the simplest method is probably ARP proxy
Dec 11 06:09:20 <Vratha> any of you experiencing pretty heavy battery drain on the n900?  it seems fairly difficult to tweak it so that it doesn't kill the battery even when idle
Dec 11 06:20:04 <ruskie> Scummer, any luck?
Dec 11 06:25:25 <crashanddie> anyone very good with WebSphere/J2EE over here?
Dec 11 06:26:17 <Vratha> woot
Dec 11 06:26:35 <Vratha> getting 9ms ping time on my ISP and around 95 Mbps download and 14 Mbps upload
Dec 11 06:27:37 <crashanddie> 95Mbps? fail
Dec 11 06:29:51 <Vratha> it is not even close to a fail
Dec 11 06:30:49 <crashanddie> well, 100MB/s might be interesting (even though servers will throttle you 90% of the time), but 95Mb/s is pretty average when it comes to "good" internet connections
Dec 11 06:31:54 <crashanddie> 9ms is very average on most xDSL connections
Dec 11 06:32:14 <rohanpm> I would be very pleased with 95Mb/s
Dec 11 06:33:00 <Vratha> crashanddie: that's nice
Dec 11 06:33:04 <Vratha> i don't get throttled
Dec 11 06:33:50 <crashanddie> however, on P2P it's bliss :)
Dec 11 06:41:07 <lardman> morning
Dec 11 06:42:10 <wazd> hello maemo
Dec 11 06:43:20 <crashanddie> lardman: you don't happen to be a websphere god by any chance?
Dec 11 06:43:24 <crashanddie> lardman: morning, by the way :)
Dec 11 06:43:46 <lardman> morning crashanddie
Dec 11 06:43:57 <lardman> no, I'm not a God of anything web related I'm afraid
Dec 11 06:44:37 <crashanddie> cock
Dec 11 06:44:43 <johnx> crashanddie, is IBM's stuff being awesome?
Dec 11 06:44:51 <crashanddie> yeah
Dec 11 06:45:01 <crashanddie> 11PM and still at the office :/
Dec 11 06:45:28 <johnx> ugh
Dec 11 06:45:44 <johnx> I had a fight with BIND, but it only took me until ~9PM
Dec 11 06:46:13 <lardman> 6.45 and I'm already on the computer, also not good
Dec 11 06:46:17 <lardman> am
Dec 11 06:47:07 <crashanddie> johnx: if by any chance, you know how to merge different nodes across separate cells... I used ./manageprofiles -create to bootstrap some nodes from an EJB3 template, but for some reason the separate nodes have been spawned in new cells, which makes it quite difficult for the MQs and buses to connect (and also the JDBC connecters and J2C authenticators aren't shared)
Dec 11 06:47:35 <johnx> yeah, you're so far over my head here
Dec 11 06:47:55 <johnx> though "JDBC" throws horrible warning signs in my head O_o;
Dec 11 06:48:47 * johnx tries to figure out if WebSphere is something I would ever need at my company
Dec 11 06:48:56 <crashanddie> johnx & lardman: vote for me, click on thanks: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=421858#post421858
Dec 11 06:49:55 <crashanddie> johnx: jdbc is easy seriously
Dec 11 06:50:04 <crashanddie> it's just a connection to a database
Dec 11 06:50:11 <johnx> yeah, sure. but that J that it's connected to scares me
Dec 11 06:50:17 <crashanddie> oh
Dec 11 06:50:30 <crashanddie> johnx: be scared of the 18 million lines of java that power the code that use it
Dec 11 06:50:37 <johnx> exactly
Dec 11 06:50:48 <crashanddie> and that figure isn't very far removed from reality
Dec 11 06:52:34 <johnx> also: I generally consider "solution" a warning when it's the chief term used to describe a product. When a product is described as a "collection of solutions" I tend to cut n' run
Dec 11 06:54:17 <crashanddie> johnx: a solution is rarely a product, a solution is usually the setup of a product within a customer environment
Dec 11 06:54:21 <crashanddie> at least in management/business peak
Dec 11 06:54:27 <crashanddie> s/peak/speak/
Dec 11 06:54:27 <infobot> crashanddie meant: at least in management/business speak
Dec 11 06:54:50 <johnx> yeah, I guess I should s/product/"thing"/
Dec 11 06:55:02 <crashanddie> johnx: as in: "a solution offers the resolution to a business problem, a company offers a product to make that solution a reality"
Dec 11 06:56:05 <johnx> solution provided by an entity outside of the company == a way for someone else to have your company by the short-n-curlies
Dec 11 06:56:43 <crashanddie> johnx: that's why companies create niche business problems that nobody else can fill
Dec 11 06:57:18 <crashanddie> johnx: oldest trick in the book, if I make you believe you have a problem and have something I can sell you to solve that problem, am I not fully profitable?
Dec 11 06:57:35 <pwnguin> http://linux.ananddjoshi.com/ocrdroid/index.php
Dec 11 06:57:58 <ManuelSE> how do i TURN OFF phone radio?
Dec 11 06:58:20 <ManuelSE> it always connects
Dec 11 06:58:20 <johnx> power button -> ofline mode
Dec 11 06:58:28 <ManuelSE> i want to use wlan
Dec 11 06:58:36 <pwnguin> heh
Dec 11 06:58:38 <johnx> maybe learn dbus?
Dec 11 06:58:44 <pwnguin> you have to be careful about which radio you mean here
Dec 11 06:58:48 <pwnguin> theres like three
Dec 11 06:58:58 <johnx> crashanddie, thank god our execs have a clue O_o
Dec 11 06:59:03 <pwnguin> maybe 4
Dec 11 06:59:18 <ManuelSE> dude, phone radio is precise
Dec 11 06:59:18 <johnx> including a radio radio :)
Dec 11 06:59:21 <DocScrutinizer51> and in europe radio is much like RX
Dec 11 06:59:32 <pwnguin> ManuelSE: under network settings, you can select automatically connect to: wifi
Dec 11 06:59:44 <ManuelSE> right
Dec 11 06:59:53 <DocScrutinizer51> even FM-RX
Dec 11 07:00:01 <ManuelSE> and it ALWAYS starts the 3g connection
Dec 11 07:00:25 <johnx> pwnguin, is ocrdroid a maemo project?
Dec 11 07:00:31 <pwnguin> johnx: no =(
Dec 11 07:00:49 <pwnguin> johnx: i was just taking pictures in the library for fun of some stuff i want to digitize
Dec 11 07:00:58 <pwnguin> thought i'd plant some seeds
Dec 11 07:01:26 <ManuelSE> test
Dec 11 07:01:53 <crashanddie> johnx: that's why they have the big fat checks
Dec 11 07:03:12 <pwnguin> johnx: it looks like they mainly built it out of open source components
Dec 11 07:03:33 <pwnguin> tesseract and ocropus
Dec 11 07:03:39 <crashanddie> ok well, I give up for tonight
Dec 11 07:03:45 <crashanddie> I'll sort this shit out tomorrow
Dec 11 07:04:29 <johnx> yeah. sleep and some coffee always gives a fresh perspective
Dec 11 07:06:16 <ManuelSE> Nokia-N900-42-11:~# rmmod pn_pep ssi_mcsaab_imp
Dec 11 07:06:29 <ManuelSE> nixes the umts connection
Dec 11 07:06:39 <johnx> or you can just use dbus I bet
Dec 11 07:07:08 <ManuelSE> yes thanks.  but that would waste my time now
Dec 11 07:08:05 <pwnguin> you bought an n900 but dont want a cellular connection?
Dec 11 07:08:39 <johnx> I could see not wanting it sometimes
Dec 11 07:09:50 <lardman> lol @ tags in that thread crashanddie linked
Dec 11 07:16:15 <Corsac> arf, n900 has been delayed to january 5 on expansys
Dec 11 07:17:44 <cure`> i'm waiting for providers here
Dec 11 07:37:58 <lardman> hmm, my N900 is far too keen to switch to a data connection
Dec 11 07:38:35 <ManuelSE> i rmmod -f phonet and smile
Dec 11 07:38:36 <timeless_mbp> mine switched while i was on a VoIP call
Dec 11 07:38:39 <timeless_mbp> the call didn't survive
Dec 11 07:39:05 <lardman> anyone else having troubles with gonvert?
Dec 11 07:39:19 <lardman> I've got a postinst error
Dec 11 07:39:29 <luke-jr_> timeless_mbp: Nokia didn't bother to put proper mechanisms in place for that?
Dec 11 07:39:40 <timeless_mbp> ...
Dec 11 07:39:47 <luke-jr_> or was it XMPP?
Dec 11 07:39:53 <luke-jr_> not sure if XMPP has that functionality
Dec 11 07:40:01 <luke-jr_> but SIP certainly does
Dec 11 07:40:33 <PolarFox> Then phone should lock the data connection while call is in progress..
Dec 11 07:40:57 <timeless_mbp> dunno, all i know is that it didn't seem to work
Dec 11 07:40:58 <luke-jr_> ...
Dec 11 07:41:01 <timeless_mbp> and i was talking to my parents
Dec 11 07:41:09 <timeless_mbp> so it was mostly embarrassing
Dec 11 07:41:12 <luke-jr_> PolarFox: it can learn its new IP and transfer the call
Dec 11 07:41:20 <luke-jr_> in theory without hiccups
Dec 11 07:41:52 <timeless_mbp> it's possible the call would have healed eventually
Dec 11 07:41:59 <timeless_mbp> but it certainly didn't fix itself quickly
Dec 11 07:43:39 <mikeos> hi, I can't find powertop.. any clue?
Dec 11 07:48:00 <Markus23> Is it possible to write voip sms using maemo?
Dec 11 07:48:11 <Markus23> (not using gsm but umts or wlan)
Dec 11 07:48:31 <Markus23> sip voip client is there I assume?
Dec 11 07:50:19 <ifreq> voips sms whats that man :)
Dec 11 07:50:58 <ifreq> used sip and many voips.but newer heard youmcould text with it
Dec 11 07:51:14 <ifreq> tho skype=voip.you can chat too
Dec 11 07:51:28 <ifreq> pff misspaste
Dec 11 07:51:33 <Markus23> ifreq: so sip on n900 is no problem?
Dec 11 07:52:08 <Markus23> A mobile provider gives 50 free sms with a sip package
Dec 11 07:52:28 <Markus23> so you say that it is technically not sip...
Dec 11 07:52:35 <Markus23> (the sms)
Dec 11 07:54:06 <ifreq> well afaik.but not 1st time ive proven wrong
Dec 11 07:54:16 <ifreq> call them and ask
Dec 11 07:57:20 <mece> So I tested the N900 proper yesterday.
Dec 11 07:57:41 <ifreq> and..? :)
Dec 11 07:58:19 <mece> Well it survived 2 hours of circle pits and walls of death. so good on that. My ngage cracked it's shell in similar conditions :)
Dec 11 07:58:24 <mece> I'd call it robust :D
Dec 11 07:58:29 <ifreq> heh
Dec 11 07:59:51 <lardman> mece: on a bicycle?
Dec 11 07:59:54 <Markus23> ifreq: will do that, thanks for help
Dec 11 08:00:11 <lardman> or skateboard?
Dec 11 08:04:58 <slonopotamus> is it only me not seeing qik in app manager?
Dec 11 08:10:58 <Markus23> ifreq: ok, the sms feature is something they implemented in their own client, seems like I can't use that anyway
Dec 11 08:27:36 <timeless> bergie: hey, do you know the mauku people?
Dec 11 08:28:51 <bergie> timeless: I've chatted with hhedberg couple of times, mostly about the Qaiku support in Mauku. Why?
Dec 11 08:29:56 <timeless> got a bunch of bugs, am looking for a bug tracker
Dec 11 08:30:10 <timeless> the one i have requires me to jump through too many hoops
Dec 11 08:33:01 <Myrtti> timeless: he's been more or less awol for a month or a so, doesn't seem to be responding in twitter to people angry about mauku bugs at all
Dec 11 08:33:12 <timeless> heh
Dec 11 08:33:16 <timeless> glory
Dec 11 08:33:40 <Myrtti> apparently he's got a version of mauku (or sources of it) somewhere that fix some of the bugs
Dec 11 08:34:02 <Myrtti> but nobody knows if he has an open vcs or if he's just brewing the fixes on his harddrive
Dec 11 08:34:23 <Myrtti> perhaps the harddrive will hatch something, but nobody knows...
Dec 11 08:34:42 <ruskie> lol
Dec 11 08:36:59 * timeless sighs
Dec 11 08:37:04 * timeless kicks entourage
Dec 11 08:37:08 * Stskeeps glances at his coffee
Dec 11 08:37:30 <Myrtti> oh FOR FUCKS SAKE
Dec 11 08:37:37 <Myrtti> is deleting stuff really made this difficult?
Dec 11 08:37:40 <timeless> ?
Dec 11 08:37:49 <Myrtti> the file manager is shite.
Dec 11 08:37:52 <Myrtti> ;____;
Dec 11 08:38:01 <timeless> have you found..
Dec 11 08:38:11 <timeless> petrovich?
Dec 11 08:38:21 <timeless> it's my friend
Dec 11 08:38:44 <Stskeeps> next up, Deletor
Dec 11 08:38:44 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 11 08:38:46 <Myrtti> and no unzip either?
Dec 11 08:38:51 <Myrtti> crapcakes
Dec 11 08:39:13 <timeless> we're following the ms model
Dec 11 08:39:21 <timeless> zip was integrated in what, windows ME?
Dec 11 08:39:21 <Myrtti> I can see that
Dec 11 08:39:23 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: isn't there a Xarchiver or something
Dec 11 08:39:30 <timeless> so it's going to come in version 9
Dec 11 08:39:57 <lardman> lol
Dec 11 08:39:58 <Myrtti> Stskeeps: I somehow have the distinct feeling and memory that unzipping was there OOTB in <5
Dec 11 08:40:09 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: not afaik
Dec 11 08:40:11 <timeless> myrtti: in backup
Dec 11 08:40:12 <Myrtti> I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time
Dec 11 08:40:14 <Stskeeps> well, in backup
Dec 11 08:40:14 <timeless> zip is the format
Dec 11 08:40:23 <timeless> but other than that, no. never
Dec 11 08:40:25 <johnx> but xarchiver was there
Dec 11 08:40:31 <timeless> not in the box
Dec 11 08:40:32 <johnx> I'd really like to see it done the mac os x way
Dec 11 08:40:32 <Stskeeps> morning john
Dec 11 08:40:35 <Myrtti> brilliant
Dec 11 08:40:40 <timeless> johnx: no!
Dec 11 08:40:44 <johnx> timeless, yeah. s/there/available/
Dec 11 08:40:54 <johnx> timeless, maybe the beos5 way then?
Dec 11 08:40:56 <timeless> the osx way *sucks* on multi volume space constrained systems
Dec 11 08:41:08 <lardman> johnx: what's the MacOS way?
Dec 11 08:41:10 <timeless> from memory the beos 5 way is fine
Dec 11 08:41:18 <Stskeeps> fuse integration, maybe
Dec 11 08:41:20 <johnx> timeless, there's only *one* volume though (that the user can unzip to from the GUI)
Dec 11 08:41:24 <timeless> lardman: roughly things are auto expanded and you're screwed
Dec 11 08:41:29 <lardman> ok
Dec 11 08:41:46 <johnx> in mac: double click, thing expands in current directory
Dec 11 08:41:48 <timeless> given how things work in maemo5
Dec 11 08:41:54 <timeless> we should go the symbian way
Dec 11 08:42:03 <timeless> where double clicking opens a subview
Dec 11 08:42:05 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36691
Dec 11 08:42:11 <timeless> which lets you expand whereever you want
Dec 11 08:42:18 <timeless> johnx: there are 2 in the n900
Dec 11 08:42:19 <lardman> I think basically you should go someway at least ;)
Dec 11 08:42:20 * Stskeeps wouldn't mind a good vmware client on his n900
Dec 11 08:42:23 <Myrtti> I need a cinnamon roll and booze.
Dec 11 08:42:27 <timeless> we still have microSD
Dec 11 08:42:31 <johnx> ah
Dec 11 08:42:42 <johnx> you're right. I totally forgot about that because I don't have one
Dec 11 08:43:01 <johnx> yeah, something more beos-like seems right to me then
Dec 11 08:43:15 <timeless> that's because we forgot to include the free 32mb microSD insult card
Dec 11 08:43:25 <lardman> bbl chaps
Dec 11 08:43:25 <johnx> Stskeeps, hmm?
Dec 11 08:43:38 <Stskeeps> johnx: imagine accessing vmware infrastructure on n900 :P
Dec 11 08:43:45 <jaem> morning
Dec 11 08:43:57 <johnx> Stskeeps, I'm imagining kicking vmware out at work and replacing it with xen :)
Dec 11 08:44:05 <Stskeeps> johnx: hehe, okay
Dec 11 08:44:20 <Myrtti> I'm happy I'm trying out the scratchbox and maemo5 before actually buying the device
Dec 11 08:44:25 <Myrtti> the UI is somewhat... painful
Dec 11 08:44:27 <johnx> nah. I actually just had the conversation today with my boss and essentially got the go-ahead :)
Dec 11 08:44:59 <jaem> so, this weekend should be fun - I'll be researching and writing a paper on my N900 ;)
Dec 11 08:45:02 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: just remember the SDK is not an emulator, it's basically a bunch of hildon stuff slapped together that feels remotely like a maemo5 instance :P
Dec 11 08:45:02 <jaem> for lack of anything else
Dec 11 08:45:09 * timeless sighs
Dec 11 08:45:18 * timeless wishes Entourage wouldn't constantly beach ball
Dec 11 08:45:20 <jaem> which means I need to get Wikipedia loaded onto it too
Dec 11 08:45:21 <Myrtti> Stskeeps: yeah, I'd assume the actual experience would be slower and more painful
Dec 11 08:45:25 <arachnist> Myrtti: on the device the ui works very well
Dec 11 08:45:25 <timeless> it makes doing anything hard
Dec 11 08:45:29 <johnx> Myrtti, faster actually
Dec 11 08:45:32 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: no, actually faster
Dec 11 08:45:32 <jaem> Myrtti, agreed
Dec 11 08:45:34 <jaem> it's quite nice
Dec 11 08:45:47 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: the SDK is sw-rendering on many machines
Dec 11 08:45:52 <Myrtti> I'm not too hopeful
Dec 11 08:46:06 <Stskeeps> youtube n900 videos :P
Dec 11 08:46:43 <timeless> nice
Dec 11 08:46:48 <Myrtti> the application menus drive me crazy
Dec 11 08:46:54 <timeless> entourage can't handle progress for a folder w/ 100k messages
Dec 11 08:46:59 <timeless> after the first 99 messages it shows:
Dec 11 08:47:09 <timeless> 100/124...
Dec 11 08:47:09 <Myrtti> the whole stress on fingerability that has stripped many so good apps to one fifth of the features they originally have
Dec 11 08:47:15 <Myrtti> case example: xournal
Dec 11 08:47:34 <Myrtti> or osso-xterm
Dec 11 08:47:39 <timeless> myrtti: so...
Dec 11 08:47:41 <johnx> osso-xterm is way better
Dec 11 08:47:43 <timeless> try connectivity dialogs
Dec 11 08:47:49 <johnx> and what's xournal missing?
Dec 11 08:47:52 <timeless> you'll find that they suck
Dec 11 08:47:57 <timeless> because they aren't fingerable
Dec 11 08:48:02 <timeless> 400/12...
Dec 11 08:48:04 <timeless> er
Dec 11 08:48:06 <timeless> 4000/12...
Dec 11 08:48:21 * timeless can't believe ms didn't make sure the field supported 100k mailboxes
Dec 11 08:48:34 <ruskie> lol
Dec 11 08:48:39 <jaem> timeless, on an aside, do you have any idea how easy it would be to lobotomize the accent composition mode from the charmap (on a personal build, I mean)?
Dec 11 08:48:39 <ruskie> you are joking right?
Dec 11 08:48:46 <jaem> I never actually use accents, and so it's annoying
Dec 11 08:48:52 <Myrtti> johnx: everthing that was in maemo4 version, that isn't in maemo5. For example, I don't dream of designing patterns with it anymore.
Dec 11 08:48:53 <johnx> oh, it supports mailboxes with 100kB of messages just fine? what you want more than that? madness!
Dec 11 08:48:54 <timeless> jaem: it's a keymap
Dec 11 08:48:57 <timeless> it should be pretty easy
Dec 11 08:49:14 <jaem> timeless, are you saying it wouldn't require source modifications?
Dec 11 08:49:15 <timeless> jaem: do us a favor and whack the project manager while you're at it
Dec 11 08:49:22 <johnx> Myrtti, ah. I guess I didn't lose anything I ever used, but I'm kind of a "light" xournal user
Dec 11 08:49:26 <jaem> timeless, sorry?
Dec 11 08:49:28 <timeless> jaem: oh, um, you'll have to modify something
Dec 11 08:49:32 <jaem> kk
Dec 11 08:49:47 <jaem> I'll take a look next week, probably... I'm going out for the weekend
Dec 11 08:49:47 <timeless> but the file should be some vaguely documented file
Dec 11 08:49:50 <Myrtti> no option for grid background - eh. And if you say "you should export a pdf with grid layout in xournal on your computer, and then annotate that" what a crappy solution
Dec 11 08:49:53 <jaem> concert, and then early Christmas
Dec 11 08:50:11 <jaem> timeless, "vaguely documented"?  Woo!  That's what I've been dealing with the last few weeks
Dec 11 08:50:11 <Myrtti> anyway, ranting is useless, I've learnt that
Dec 11 08:50:13 <jaem> good fun!
Dec 11 08:50:19 * jaem rants at Myrtti
Dec 11 08:50:32 <timeless> myrtti: i learned to detect a rant
Dec 11 08:50:36 <Myrtti> All I get is "you're using your tools wrong, use this app to do what you want" and "have you contacted upstream"
Dec 11 08:50:38 <johnx> Myrtti, you could talk to the xournal dev at least
Dec 11 08:50:40 <timeless> calm down and hopefully politely address it
Dec 11 08:50:43 <timeless> boy was that challenging
Dec 11 08:50:54 <Myrtti> or "so there's the specs, why don't you do it yourself"
Dec 11 08:51:06 <timeless> someone gave you specs?!
Dec 11 08:51:13 <timeless> that sounds like a criminal offense
Dec 11 08:51:18 <timeless> passing classified documents
Dec 11 08:51:25 <johnx> I think in this case talking to "upstream" might actually get you somewhere. Maybe the xournal guy really doesn't use the features he dropped?
Dec 11 08:51:26 <Myrtti> johnx: or I could just stop dreaming about N900 and save my money and use my N95 and N800 until they break.
Dec 11 08:51:52 <Myrtti> johnx: *shrug*
Dec 11 08:52:19 <johnx> Myrtti, you could of course. I can't even cope with using my N800 anymore, though :|
Dec 11 08:52:28 <Myrtti> I'll contact him all right, I'm just not having high hopes. Hope is the mindkiller, losing hope is worse than not having it in the first place
Dec 11 08:52:29 <timeless> oh, how nice
Dec 11 08:52:38 <johnx> I mean, really, what's the harm in asking the xournal guy? he's not even a Nokia employee (AFAIK)
Dec 11 08:52:40 <timeless> this copy dialog is at least window modal, if not app modal
Dec 11 08:52:43 <timeless> but it isn't a sheet
Dec 11 08:52:48 <timeless> yay ms
Dec 11 08:52:48 <johnx> ah, sorry. typed that before I read your response
Dec 11 08:52:48 <jaem> johnx, I know ;)  My problem is that my N900 is a dev loaner :(
Dec 11 08:52:53 <jaem> so I'll have to give it back
Dec 11 08:53:23 <johnx> jaem, yeah. I've got a loaner too, due back in march or so I guess
Dec 11 08:53:26 <timeless> myrtti: it's not like your asking someone to put an 'n' back where it belongs
Dec 11 08:53:40 <Myrtti> I'll just crawl back to my cave now.
Dec 11 08:53:41 <johnx> gotta save up $cost_of_n900_2010 in march by the time I have to send it back
Dec 11 08:53:51 <timeless> hrm
Dec 11 08:53:55 <jaem> johnx, my prof scooped them at Dev Days, since the one we ordered throught the local office was taking forever
Dec 11 08:54:02 <timeless> i think my copy died and it's trying again?
Dec 11 08:54:02 <jaem> johnx, yeah, I wish I could :(
Dec 11 08:54:16 * timeless looks up the standard definition of insanity
Dec 11 08:54:23 <sayjava> does anyone know if there is a problem on the maemo playing audio over the network with the phonon framework?
Dec 11 08:54:29 <johnx> jaem, skip lunch
Dec 11 08:54:30 <luke-jr_> johnx: I imagine you will have $cost_of_n900_2010 extra to spend
Dec 11 08:54:40 <jaem> johnx, for how long?
Dec 11 08:54:47 <luke-jr_> johnx: slonopotamus just got a N900 gifted without any terms
Dec 11 08:54:48 <timeless> sayjava: that sounds like something that's either filed in bugs.maemo.org or not filed there
Dec 11 08:54:48 <johnx> jaem, until march maybe?
Dec 11 08:54:51 <jaem> even if I was buying food at the residence dining hall, itwould be awhile
Dec 11 08:54:52 <jaem> hah
Dec 11 08:55:20 <luke-jr_> slonopotamus: curious timing
Dec 11 08:55:22 <johnx> luke-jr_, that's interesting. what were the circumstances?
Dec 11 08:55:33 <jaem> luke-jr_, nice
Dec 11 08:55:36 <sayjava> timeless: just wanted to check if anyone else is having same issue
Dec 11 08:55:37 <luke-jr_> johnx: someone contacted him and told him to come pick up a N900
Dec 11 08:55:41 <luke-jr_> johnx: or something like that
Dec 11 08:55:51 <johnx> probably won't happen to me :)
Dec 11 08:55:51 <slonopotamus> luke-jr_, morning :)
Dec 11 08:55:52 <timeless> sayjava: that's what bugs.maemo.org is for
Dec 11 08:55:59 <timeless> if they're having the issue, they report a bug
Dec 11 08:56:07 <timeless> if you don't provide steps to reproduce, no one can say
Dec 11 08:56:28 <timeless> since you're talking about a network, presumably you can provide a public url and steps so someone else could try
Dec 11 08:56:55 <slonopotamus> luke-jr_, no f*cking tab here. i can't use xchat
Dec 11 08:57:11 <Stskeeps> ctrl-i?
Dec 11 08:57:14 <timeless> slono; that's why i use epic/ircii :)
Dec 11 08:57:21 <luke-jr_> timeless: I suspect he means ssh -X remotehost with working sound
Dec 11 08:57:31 <Myrtti> note, I'm giving panucci a try - again. If *THIS* isn't any better than the diablo version is, I'll be very, very sad.
Dec 11 08:57:32 <luke-jr_> slonopotamus: Xchat ftl
Dec 11 08:57:41 * jaem is pondering hooking up a physical throttle to rtorrent :)
Dec 11 08:58:00 * luke-jr_ wonders how you can physically throttle an application
Dec 11 08:58:04 <johnx> jaem, like a gas pedal? or more like one from a motorcycle?
Dec 11 08:58:12 <jaem> johnx, speedboat
Dec 11 08:58:13 <Stskeeps> luke-jr_: "nice" ? ;p
Dec 11 08:58:19 <slonopotamus> timeless, liar. you didn't autocomplete my nick either :)
Dec 11 08:58:23 <luke-jr_> Stskeeps: ???????????????
Dec 11 08:58:32 <Stskeeps> luke-jr_: throttling an app :P
Dec 11 08:58:37 <timeless> slono: i don't believe in autocomplete
Dec 11 08:58:43 <slonopotamus> ...
Dec 11 08:58:47 <timeless> your name is too long :)
Dec 11 08:58:49 <luke-jr_> Stskeeps: "nice" isn't physical
Dec 11 08:58:59 <luke-jr_> timeless is right!
Dec 11 08:59:05 <luke-jr_> slonopotamus: your name violates the RFC
Dec 11 08:59:07 <Myrtti> or then again, it could just crash in the scratchbox.
Dec 11 08:59:09 <luke-jr_> I demand you fix it!
Dec 11 08:59:11 <luke-jr_> :p
Dec 11 08:59:12 <jaem> lame... this torrent is so poorly seeded that I'm pulling only ~250kB/s on a 35Mbps connection :/
Dec 11 08:59:14 <Myrtti> ho-hum
Dec 11 08:59:19 <jaem> that makes me cry
Dec 11 08:59:22 <timeless> iirc the limit is 11 chars
Dec 11 08:59:24 <timeless> and you're 12
Dec 11 08:59:24 * Myrtti goes to get some glögi with red wine in it.
Dec 11 08:59:29 <luke-jr_> timeless: right
Dec 11 08:59:32 <slonopotamus> luke-jr_, file a bugreport :p
Dec 11 08:59:35 <luke-jr_> timeless++
Dec 11 09:00:12 <Myrtti> NO it's NOT too early for wine yet.
Dec 11 09:00:14 <slonopotamus_ftw> that's max
Dec 11 09:00:32 <RST38h> heffalumpus
Dec 11 09:00:36 <timeless> slono: classically irc had an 11 char limit
Dec 11 09:00:44 <slonopotamus_ftw> ctrl+i in xchat does smth weird
Dec 11 09:01:01 <luke-jr_> I wrote a fancy algorithm to make my bots fit in the 11 char limit
Dec 11 09:01:08 <luke-jr_> works for up to like 1600 instances
Dec 11 09:01:22 <luke-jr_> which is apparently far too few :|
Dec 11 09:01:27 <timeless> heh
Dec 11 09:01:35 <slonopotamus_ftw> ...
Dec 11 09:01:37 <Myrtti> timeless: wasn't it 9?
Dec 11 09:01:40 <timeless> what kind of botnet were you managing?
Dec 11 09:01:44 <timeless> myrtti: hrm
Dec 11 09:01:51 <Myrtti> I could remember wrong...
Dec 11 09:01:54 <luke-jr_> timeless: http://gitorious.org/geneticbot
Dec 11 09:01:57 <Myrtti> again, isnt' the only time
Dec 11 09:01:58 <timeless> aol had a 10 char limit
Dec 11 09:02:02 <timeless> (timelessne)
Dec 11 09:02:07 <luke-jr_> ok, my bad link
Dec 11 09:02:21 <luke-jr_> http://gitorious.org/geneticchat
Dec 11 09:02:22 <slonopotamus_ftw> limits are for losers!
Dec 11 09:02:24 <luke-jr_> there it is
Dec 11 09:02:46 <timeless> slono: yeah, we should just use nicks which are 256mb long
Dec 11 09:02:55 <timeless> that'll work well on n900s :)
Dec 11 09:03:06 <johnx> then we can just show the hash of those nicks in the channel :)
Dec 11 09:03:10 <Myrtti> *sigh* atleast I got my row counter.
Dec 11 09:03:11 <luke-jr_> timeless: note it was only able to manage > 1600 instances when they all shared a single process :)
Dec 11 09:03:14 <jaem> timeless, millibits are pretty small - it might work
Dec 11 09:03:16 <jaem> ;)
Dec 11 09:03:48 <luke-jr_> jaem: 256mb isn't *that* small
Dec 11 09:03:51 <luke-jr_> still 32 MB
Dec 11 09:04:03 <ruskie> lol
Dec 11 09:04:10 <johnx> mb != Mb
Dec 11 09:04:16 <ruskie> hmm I wish the notification would mess up input focus
Dec 11 09:04:20 <johnx> I think the first one is millibars actually
Dec 11 09:04:21 <luke-jr_> johnx: metric != computer units
Dec 11 09:04:22 <jaem> luke-jr_, no, 256 mibibits == 1/4 1b
Dec 11 09:04:31 <pupnik> how close are you gettin macro focus on n900?
Dec 11 09:05:17 <luke-jr_> timeless: anyhow, to summarize, the bot swarm is self-mutating survival of the fittest
Dec 11 09:05:25 <slonopotamus_ftw> so... autocomplete in xchat in fremantle, anyone? :) and where qik dissapeared...
Dec 11 09:05:33 <jaem> timeless, any idea what keywords might be useful to find the charmap stuff?
Dec 11 09:05:44 <jaem> I'm not having much luck in mxr
Dec 11 09:05:57 <timeless> jaem: hrm, vkb as a find?
Dec 11 09:06:03 <timeless> you really want to start by finding the layouts
Dec 11 09:06:07 <jaem> timeless, trying it
Dec 11 09:06:13 <timeless> you might try rx51
Dec 11 09:06:15 <jaem> so it's part of vkb, then?
Dec 11 09:06:21 <timeless> dunno
Dec 11 09:06:22 <jaem> not a separate component?
Dec 11 09:06:23 <jaem> hmm
Dec 11 09:06:41 <timeless> you're basically looking for the thing that manages key composition/mapping iirc
Dec 11 09:06:45 <jaem> yes
Dec 11 09:06:54 <jaem> ah... here we go... maybe
Dec 11 09:06:56 <timeless> but it's definitely a task for find not search
Dec 11 09:07:01 <jaem> heh
Dec 11 09:08:31 * timeless sighs
Dec 11 09:08:40 <timeless> entourage is really not working
Dec 11 09:09:07 <johnx> that's how you can tell it's entourage?
Dec 11 09:09:25 <johnx> if it started working you might mistake it for a very recent version of mac os x mail
Dec 11 09:09:35 <timeless> well, there's a parentless dialog labeled "Copying Messages"
Dec 11 09:10:01 <johnx> yeah. mislabeled. It should read "Screwing something up"
Dec 11 09:10:02 <timeless> and clicking it changes the menubar to Entourage
Dec 11 09:10:21 <timeless> johnx: my entourage forces me to rebuild the mail database every time i launch the app :)
Dec 11 09:10:57 <johnx> but you can enjoy all the benefits of your exchange server, right?
Dec 11 09:11:01 <timeless> (this is not an exageration)
Dec 11 09:11:30 <johnx> eh, mac os x mail did the same to some of our users in older (tiger especially) versions
Dec 11 09:11:34 <timeless> johnx: you mean the daily message saying "you've exceeded 90% of your metric-gigabyte mailbox limit"?
Dec 11 09:12:05 <timeless> yes, i look forward to that message every day
Dec 11 09:12:11 <timeless> it helps me reach my limit
Dec 11 09:12:15 <timeless> since it isn't a free message
Dec 11 09:12:25 <johnx> sanity limit?
Dec 11 09:12:37 <Stskeeps> timeless: how's enus coming along?
Dec 11 09:12:43 <Stskeeps> (i dont' have time to test until after 15th)
Dec 11 09:13:02 <timeless> sts: it's going to regress with whatever service release
Dec 11 09:13:04 <jaem> timeless, same here (15th)
Dec 11 09:13:12 <timeless> i've got a few strings in display that need rewrites
Dec 11 09:13:23 <timeless> and i have a plan to fix the reboot issue
Dec 11 09:13:36 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Dec 11 09:13:40 <timeless> i was supposed to discuss the bug w/ eero yesterday, but didn't feel well enough
Dec 11 09:13:43 <jaem> mornin' Jaffa
Dec 11 09:14:38 <johnx> timeless, hey. would there be any reason that your translation pack might totally screw up pulseaudio and/or hildon-status-menu?
Dec 11 09:14:51 <timeless> pulse? not that i know of
Dec 11 09:14:58 <timeless> hildon-status-menu? you'll need a reboot..
Dec 11 09:15:02 <timeless> but otherwise, no
Dec 11 09:15:29 <jaem> gah... I have an exam in 7 hours
Dec 11 09:15:29 <johnx> I think that one was screwing up the other causing them both to try and use 100% of the CPU
Dec 11 09:15:34 * jaem is going to sleep
Dec 11 09:15:35 <johnx> through multiple reboots
Dec 11 09:15:35 <jaem> night, all
Dec 11 09:15:40 <johnx> jaem, better than a 7 hour exam
Dec 11 09:15:43 <johnx> 'night jaem
Dec 11 09:16:00 <timeless> sleep well
Dec 11 09:16:08 <jaem> johnx, true
Dec 11 09:16:09 <jaem> thanks
Dec 11 09:16:10 <jaem> night
Dec 11 09:16:17 <timeless> johnx: um, i claim no matter what my stuff does, if pulse goes nuts, that's a problem w/ pulse
Dec 11 09:17:32 <johnx> timeless, I have a feeling that something was asking it to do something repeatedly
Dec 11 09:18:00 <aquatix> good morning all
Dec 11 09:18:27 <timeless> strings don't ask people to do work :)
Dec 11 09:19:19 <johnx> yeah. the only thing that implicates strings was the timing
Dec 11 09:19:44 <johnx> I have another suspect, but I figured I'd have you vouch for your package anyways :)
Dec 11 09:19:59 <pupnik>  /jo
Dec 11 09:26:20 * timeless curses
Dec 11 09:26:26 <timeless> anyone here understand upstart?
Dec 11 09:28:27 <luke-jr_> I understand pizza.
Dec 11 09:28:44 <arachnist> mmm, pizza
Dec 11 09:28:50 <luke-jr_> exactly.
Dec 11 09:29:13 <pupnik> there are a lot of mysterious things running on n900 :)
Dec 11 09:29:32 <luke-jr_> pupnik: including a mouse?!?!?
Dec 11 09:29:44 <pupnik> oh can we use old n800 hack to show cursor?
Dec 11 09:29:54 <luke-jr_> ...
Dec 11 09:29:55 <pupnik> if i get started again, i need that synergy
Dec 11 09:30:04 <pupnik> x pointer
Dec 11 09:30:13 <Stskeeps> pupnik: you need to set a x pointer or something
Dec 11 09:30:13 <luke-jr_> why not a Y pointer?
Dec 11 09:30:28 <pupnik> yeah, somewhere in /home/user there was somth like that
Dec 11 09:30:29 <pupnik> X11
Dec 11 09:30:40 <X-Fade> And remove the transparent mouse pointer icon ;)
Dec 11 09:31:08 <luke-jr_> and finally get a pizza.
Dec 11 09:31:39 * luke-jr_ wonders if he spends too much time around markov bots
Dec 11 09:40:05 <pupnik> 10:37 <@Koan> Tired of the boring voices on GPS tracking systems telling you  where to go? Don't fret my pets, Snoop Dogg to the rescue! The  38-year-old rapper has lent his voice out to GPS company TomTom,  providing two versions of voice overs.
Dec 11 09:40:21 <pupnik> with, and without f-words
Dec 11 09:40:26 <johnx> :D
Dec 11 09:40:35 <johnx> the second part is what makes it
Dec 11 09:40:55 <luke-jr_> ...........
Dec 11 09:41:57 <pupnik> the 3g agps assistance is fantastic!  but why cant we assist manually?
Dec 11 09:42:20 <pupnik> if we know where we are?   which is sometimes the case...
Dec 11 09:42:25 <timeless> woohoo
Dec 11 09:42:30 <timeless> copy+paste ftww
Dec 11 09:42:33 <timeless> win-win
Dec 11 09:42:45 <johnx> win-win = 0?
Dec 11 09:42:48 <pupnik> right, i am moving shop to brainstorm
Dec 11 09:44:43 <Gadgetoid_mbp> ODROID dev edition shipping, $349 with breakout board and cable
Dec 11 09:44:43 <timeless> sts: so
Dec 11 09:44:48 <timeless> i need an upstart guru
Dec 11 09:45:35 <timeless> gadgetoid: is that on topic?
Dec 11 09:45:54 <johnx> timeless, as a potential maemo/mer target? yeah, kinda at least
Dec 11 09:46:09 <Gadgetoid_mbp> timeless: yup!
Dec 11 09:46:11 <Stskeeps> timeless: not personally one
Dec 11 09:46:12 <Gadgetoid_mbp> loosely speaking
Dec 11 09:46:35 <Gadgetoid_mbp> Android sucks, but a Maemo ODROID would be... an ODMAEMO?
Dec 11 09:46:52 <Stskeeps> nah, mer/odroid
Dec 11 09:46:52 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 11 09:47:22 <Gadgetoid_mbp> How is Mer, anyway?
Dec 11 09:47:50 <timeless> johnx: in #mer sure
Dec 11 09:48:17 <arachnist> i wonder when someone will port dalvik to maemo/mer
Dec 11 09:48:32 <arachnist> that'd be cool
Dec 11 09:48:41 <johnx> timeless, you're talking about entourage and telling people an linux-based omap3 device (capable of running Maemo5/6 in terms of hardware) is off-topic?
Dec 11 09:50:27 <melmoth> i m lost in c++, trying to compile a simple calendar-backend test thingy.
Dec 11 09:50:29 <melmoth> http://pastebin.com/mc841715
Dec 11 09:50:32 <timeless> johnx: it's my copororate mailbox for managing work on maemo :)
Dec 11 09:50:48 <melmoth> any idea why is the calendar-backend lib not found by the linker whereas pkg-config says it s there ?
Dec 11 09:51:15 <Gadgetoid_mbp> The ODROID guys seem to ignore my repeat requests for a unit, sheesh
Dec 11 09:51:36 <johnx> Gadgetoid_mbp, as in "take my money!" or "gimme one for free!" ?
Dec 11 09:51:37 <timeless> melmoth: -l != -L
Dec 11 09:51:48 <timeless> you need to specify -L /path/to/junk -llib_name
Dec 11 09:51:57 <Gadgetoid_mbp> johnx: "gimme one for free" is my usual approach
Dec 11 09:52:02 <timeless> but you should use `pkg-config --cflags --libs package_name`
Dec 11 09:52:08 <johnx> Gadgetoid_mbp, well, it's always worth a try
Dec 11 09:52:39 <Gadgetoid_mbp> johnx: even if it results in a loan, definitely
Dec 11 09:53:15 <melmoth> timeless is it not what i did ? g++ -Wall -o test  test.cpp -I/usr/include/calendar-backend/ -lcalendar-backend
Dec 11 09:53:19 <melmoth> ahh, -L
Dec 11 09:53:22 <melmoth> and -l
Dec 11 09:53:35 <melmoth> thanks.
Dec 11 09:53:37 <pupnik> Nice job offer in my area for an embedded/firmware programmer
Dec 11 09:53:43 <melmoth> now i m puzzled as to what -I is about hten :)
Dec 11 09:54:11 <timeless> melmoth: you could read the man pages...
Dec 11 09:54:22 <timeless> L is "add directory to library search path"
Dec 11 09:54:37 <timeless> l is "link against a library (in search path) which has roughly this name"
Dec 11 09:55:06 <timeless> the definition of roughly varies by platforms
Dec 11 09:55:22 <timeless> on linux, i think you get "lib" lib_name ".so"
Dec 11 09:55:37 <melmoth> yop, i should have read the man page
Dec 11 09:55:38 <timeless> s/platforms/platform/
Dec 11 10:00:18 <melmoth> hmmm
Dec 11 10:00:22 <florian> good morning
Dec 11 10:00:23 <melmoth> "does not work" :)
Dec 11 10:02:40 <hrw> morning
Dec 11 10:06:07 <hrw> ok, time to report another bug
Dec 11 10:06:25 * ruskie wonders what
Dec 11 10:06:58 <hrw> groups in contacts
Dec 11 10:07:59 <ruskie> you mean lack of?
Dec 11 10:08:18 <timeless> not fair, you can group your gtalk, your skype, your sip, your sim
Dec 11 10:08:23 <timeless> that's lots of groups!
Dec 11 10:08:25 <timeless> (all useless!)
Dec 11 10:08:26 <ruskie> lol
Dec 11 10:08:46 <ruskie> no gtalk installed no skype installed, sim has no contacts, only one sip account(and that is my own)
Dec 11 10:08:50 <timeless> (please do complain)
Dec 11 10:09:00 <timeless> my customer complained about it
Dec 11 10:09:06 <timeless> and pretty much everyone in his class does
Dec 11 10:09:18 <timeless> (they all send out mass sms mailings regularly)
Dec 11 10:09:18 <andre__> hrw, sounds like enhancement request.
Dec 11 10:09:25 <timeless> no, it's a bug
Dec 11 10:09:30 <timeless> lack of a basic phone feature
Dec 11 10:10:01 <pupnik> mass-sms is basic?  i am not a phone person
Dec 11 10:10:05 <vesa> lack of a feature isn't a bug if it's not been advertised
Dec 11 10:10:09 <pupnik> right
Dec 11 10:10:21 * timeless grumbles
Dec 11 10:10:27 <pupnik> but it should be added
Dec 11 10:10:39 <vesa> i agree, but it just isn't a bug =)
Dec 11 10:10:45 <timeless> the bug is a lack of a requirement
Dec 11 10:10:54 <pupnik> manym folks in germany are totally sms-oriented
Dec 11 10:10:56 <timeless> the bug isn't in the software, it's in the requirements document
Dec 11 10:10:57 <mece> timeless, LOL
Dec 11 10:10:59 <timeless> but it's still a bug
Dec 11 10:11:12 <pupnik> ahh interesting
Dec 11 10:11:19 <timeless> pupnik: it hardly matters
Dec 11 10:11:32 <timeless> if you upgrade to using email, you can still want a mailing list
Dec 11 10:11:36 <timeless> we don't support them in mail either!
Dec 11 10:11:48 <vesa> if it were a bug in the requirements document, that would mean that the document has interpreted some other document, stating what should be included, wrong.
Dec 11 10:12:03 <pupnik> so many things to improve.  my brain asplodes
Dec 11 10:12:04 <timeless> vesa: it's called poor research
Dec 11 10:12:09 <hrw> bug 6850
Dec 11 10:12:12 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6850 Contacts does not allow to show only non-IM contacts
Dec 11 10:12:14 <timeless> the researcher submitted buggy work
Dec 11 10:12:23 <timeless> it's a bug
Dec 11 10:12:26 <vesa> you can't call it a bug if the requirement is nowhere to be found =)
Dec 11 10:12:35 <timeless> i most certainly can
Dec 11 10:12:38 <timeless> i just did.
Dec 11 10:12:47 <Hukka> I noticed that there are some extensions to the integrated IM system in M5 in extras-testing, but they all had bad karma.
Dec 11 10:12:49 <vesa> i squash your bug with petty nitpicking!
Dec 11 10:12:49 <mece> timeless, calling it that doesn't make it so though..
Dec 11 10:13:02 <Hukka> But in principle, is it possible to get anything there, like IRC notifications?
Dec 11 10:13:06 <hrw> andre__: I will enter EACH bug which I will find into bugtracker.
Dec 11 10:13:13 <hrw> andre__: and only to bugtracker
Dec 11 10:13:31 <hrw> andre__: I do not care about 'brainstorm' section because it is useless
Dec 11 10:13:32 <sejo> lol @timeless
Dec 11 10:13:37 <andre__> hrw, if it's bugs, sure. that's the place. if it's enhancement requests, it's brainstorm
Dec 11 10:13:48 <andre__> hrw, ah, okay. I can deactivate your account in case of abuse, no problem.
Dec 11 10:14:21 <Stskeeps> andre__: did we remove enhancement requests from bugzilla yet? :P
Dec 11 10:14:24 <hrw> andre__: add comments, mails on new activity etc functionality to brainstorm maybe?
Dec 11 10:14:28 <melmoth> timeless: i m still lost, any idea what i am doing wrong ? http://pastebin.com/m2a4484e5
Dec 11 10:14:34 <Stskeeps> (like, the type)
Dec 11 10:14:42 <andre__> hrw, ask someone else? I explained all this three days ago to you already? read what I write?
Dec 11 10:14:52 <florian> hrm.. the contacts application sucks badly
Dec 11 10:14:57 <andre__> Stskeeps, no, but b.m.o is meant for really trivial ones. rest should go to brianstorm
Dec 11 10:15:10 <timeless>  -I/usr/include/calendar-backend/
Dec 11 10:15:16 <hrw> andre__: you did, I just like to repeat from time to time to not forgot
Dec 11 10:15:18 <timeless>  I oh, that's an I not an l
Dec 11 10:15:33 <andre__> hrw, okay :)
Dec 11 10:15:41 <adeus> -lcalendar_backend
Dec 11 10:15:45 <timeless> it should be -lcalendar_backend
Dec 11 10:15:50 * timeless sighs
Dec 11 10:15:53 <timeless> this font sucks :(
Dec 11 10:16:01 * mece agrees
Dec 11 10:16:03 <timeless> but really, you want to use pkg-config
Dec 11 10:16:10 <mece> well that font, not this.
Dec 11 10:16:26 <timeless> `pkg-config calendar-backend --libs --cflags`
Dec 11 10:17:12 <timeless> in linux, you really don't want to manually build compiler flags
Dec 11 10:17:16 <melmoth> works way better thanks !
Dec 11 10:17:17 <timeless> you'll cry way too often
Dec 11 10:17:46 <timeless> and when pkgconfig doesn't work on linux, you can complain to the .pc author :)
Dec 11 10:17:50 <timeless> distributed blame :)
Dec 11 10:18:20 <pupnik> n900 performance as experienced by user is 1/(a+n), where n = number of media files on-device and a is some constznt
Dec 11 10:19:18 <pupnik> 384msongs, 101 clips, and i have to set down n900 and walk away on bootup
Dec 11 10:19:49 <arachnist> wait
Dec 11 10:19:55 <pupnik> a few minutes later it recovers from the tracker trauma
Dec 11 10:19:56 <pupnik> yep
Dec 11 10:19:59 <arachnist> you actually shutdown/reboot your n900?
Dec 11 10:20:00 <florian> Did I miss something or does the contacts application not have a field for adress data?
Dec 11 10:20:14 <pupnik> you can add fields
Dec 11 10:20:15 <mece> 384 million songs?
Dec 11 10:20:27 <pupnik> 384 songs
Dec 11 10:20:53 <mece> oh. I have 1500 songs and It's as fast as it was when it was empty.
Dec 11 10:21:28 <range> pupnik: Really?
Dec 11 10:21:35 <florian> pupnik: yes right... this seems to be a bug in the sync app - It pulled all contacts but without the address.
Dec 11 10:21:38 <pupnik> i can make a video
Dec 11 10:21:45 <pupnik> ahhh
Dec 11 10:22:17 <range> Let me look, I have around 3000 songs on there.
Dec 11 10:22:28 <timeless> florian: which sync app?
Dec 11 10:22:31 <timeless> (we have 3 i believe)
Dec 11 10:22:59 <takku> someone should do a scipt or something about that when u have keylock on and you push the on/off switch to see clock. In that same view would be nice to see also is there any messages or e-mails also...
Dec 11 10:23:18 <timeless> takku: i think according to andre you need to complain in brainstorm
Dec 11 10:23:39 <andre__> yes.
Dec 11 10:23:41 <hrw> andre__: bug 6851 is better?
Dec 11 10:23:42 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6851 No way to comment ideas/solutions in brainstorm
Dec 11 10:23:59 <takku> timeless: true
Dec 11 10:24:00 <timeless> of note, seeing messages/mail is something that came to s60 as "active standby" and it was a very late arrival
Dec 11 10:24:01 <andre__> hrw: it's even highly welcome. :-) thanks a lot for filing it
Dec 11 10:24:08 <range> pupnik: Normal boot time here.
Dec 11 10:24:17 <mece> range, is yout device snappy with 3000 songs?
Dec 11 10:24:19 <odin_> Ive looked over "brainstorm" and it doesn't make me want to "contribute" to that process
Dec 11 10:24:21 <florian> timeless: I used the contacts app function to fetch contacts from a S60 phone.
Dec 11 10:24:26 <range> mece: Yes.
Dec 11 10:24:53 <mece> range, pupnik, perhaps it's the videos that cause the problems
Dec 11 10:25:01 <timeless> florian: ok, so, that's one of the sync methods
Dec 11 10:25:08 <odin_> "brainstorm" is just like a forum "poll" nothing more, 100% anacdotal
Dec 11 10:25:09 <timeless> it's of the 3 the one i've never used successfully :)
Dec 11 10:25:10 <hrw> florian: for me it fetched from E66
Dec 11 10:25:17 <range> I only have the "9" trailer on there, as the device doesn't like my .mkvs ...
Dec 11 10:25:24 <mece> On my friends device an video had trouble making a thumbnail and that caused a lot of lag apparently
Dec 11 10:25:39 <hrw> range: 'apt-get install decoders-support'
Dec 11 10:25:41 <pupnik> maps is redownloading data for the 10 km around my home
Dec 11 10:25:50 <range> hrw: Still doesn't like *my* .mkvs :)
Dec 11 10:25:53 <mece> range, all the mkv's I have are a bit too heavy for the device too.
Dec 11 10:26:03 <range> Probably the AC3 passthrough.
Dec 11 10:27:02 <range> On the other hand I don't see me watching movies on there.
Dec 11 10:27:05 <sivang> hiu all
Dec 11 10:27:22 <Hukka> range: I wouldn't either, but I have a train/plane trip coming in one week
Dec 11 10:27:33 <sivang> anybody experience very slow net access from the scratch box and hence poor browsinf experience on the maemo emlator ?
Dec 11 10:27:41 <sivang> it is slow to death
Dec 11 10:27:44 <Hukka> Will probably take one or two movies with me, just in case I'm too tired to read but not enough to sleep
Dec 11 10:27:58 <sivang> and has issues finding the address ont he offered web liks in the browser
Dec 11 10:28:06 <range> Hukka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0 - also stands for the n900 :)
Dec 11 10:28:34 * timeless sighs
Dec 11 10:28:35 <hrw> andre__: bug 6852 is next one
Dec 11 10:28:37 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6852 No way to get notifications about changes in brainstorm
Dec 11 10:28:52 <Hukka> range: It seems that I've lost voice in my FF flash, again
Dec 11 10:28:58 <andre__> hrw, thanks. no need to tell me here though, I see them anyway when looking at the new bugs.
Dec 11 10:29:06 <timeless> hrw: i'm surprised andre isn't making you file these in brainstorm :)
Dec 11 10:29:10 <timeless> they're missing features
Dec 11 10:29:15 <timeless> which surely means they aren't bugs ;-)
Dec 11 10:29:18 <andre__> timeless, I consider them usability bugs.
Dec 11 10:29:29 <andre__> brainstorm is not in the state it should be. full stop.
Dec 11 10:29:32 <hrw> timeless: he knows already what I think about brainstorm and that I ignore that part of maemo.org
Dec 11 10:29:32 <pupnik> tablets are great for folks with back problems
Dec 11 10:29:39 <timeless> you don't consider the inability to use sms from the tablet a usability bug?
Dec 11 10:30:00 <andre__> timeless, eh?
Dec 11 10:30:21 <timeless> andre: i've traveled to a number of european countries recently
Dec 11 10:30:32 <timeless> in each country, i meet a rabbi who has a phone (nokia) which has a contact list
Dec 11 10:30:43 <pupnik> did sms not work?
Dec 11 10:30:45 <timeless> which he uses to send people invites to the next learning/fun session
Dec 11 10:30:52 <johnx> is this a math problem?
Dec 11 10:30:56 <timeless> pupnik: try sending a message to 100 people
Dec 11 10:30:56 <odin_> what about the bug that some "password" dialogs attempt to use auto-complete (but the suggestion is "*****" out, ha ha)  I've not nailed it down to an app, widget-set or toolkit problem yet
Dec 11 10:30:59 <timeless> (or 50)
Dec 11 10:31:08 <timeless> and then try sending them another message a week later
Dec 11 10:31:08 * hrw wants modest 46.11
Dec 11 10:31:10 <timeless> and the next week
Dec 11 10:31:14 <timeless> and the week after that
Dec 11 10:31:33 <timeless> odin: i've never seen that
Dec 11 10:31:35 <timeless> but it sounds awesome
Dec 11 10:31:36 <pupnik> good enhancement idea
Dec 11 10:31:42 <florian> hrw: Including adresses? Here it fetched the contacts but not all data from the address fiels got lost.
Dec 11 10:31:52 <sivang> what a baffling
Dec 11 10:31:57 <sivang> nothing works :(
Dec 11 10:32:02 <timeless> florian: file a bug
Dec 11 10:32:10 <hrw> florian: including
Dec 11 10:32:16 <timeless> include the specific make and model and version of the other phone
Dec 11 10:32:30 <timeless> then have your other phone send a single example contact card via bluetooth to your n900
Dec 11 10:32:34 <timeless> have it save the contact and import it
Dec 11 10:32:38 <timeless> verify that the data is present
Dec 11 10:32:47 <timeless> attach that .vcf to the bug as an example
Dec 11 10:33:03 <timeless> and export the original migrated copy to show what got "synced"
Dec 11 10:33:39 <sivang> is maemo.org very slow ?
Dec 11 10:34:28 <odin_> sivang, normal speed for me today... its not fast, does take a second or so to thing about responding to every request (but this is normal for this site)
Dec 11 10:34:30 <florian> timeless: of course - just searching bugzilla if there is one about this already.
Dec 11 10:35:07 <sivang> odin_: Ah I see
Dec 11 10:35:18 <sivang> odin_: good to know, I was sure there is problem with the SDK
Dec 11 10:35:26 <sivang> odin_: but other sites woek quite well
Dec 11 10:35:56 <sivang> trying to install a temrinal app
Dec 11 10:36:04 <sivang> is ther a gnome-terminal for mameo ?
Dec 11 10:36:10 <sivang> or a kterm ?
Dec 11 10:36:38 <pupnik> ...
Dec 11 10:36:49 <pupnik> why
Dec 11 10:36:59 <pupnik> you have one
Dec 11 10:37:03 <sivang> i like there key bindings
Dec 11 10:37:10 <sivang> pupnik: how do I access it ?
Dec 11 10:37:21 <pupnik> second screen of app icons
Dec 11 10:37:29 <pupnik> "terminal"
Dec 11 10:37:33 <sivang> ah bah
Dec 11 10:37:34 <sejo> hmm how long does it take to get the confirmation mail for subscribing on garage.maemo.org?
Dec 11 10:37:41 <sivang> pkgs update and installation also doesn't work
Dec 11 10:37:42 <timeless> viang: nothing will save you from not looking
Dec 11 10:37:49 <timeless> s/vi/siv/
Dec 11 10:37:50 <infobot> timeless meant: sivang: nothing will save you from not looking
Dec 11 10:38:01 <sivang> timeless: I looked  :)
Dec 11 10:38:09 <timeless> how did you miss it?
Dec 11 10:38:29 <sivang> so I click "more"
Dec 11 10:38:31 <sivang> right ?
Dec 11 10:38:35 <timeless> yep
Dec 11 10:38:42 <timeless> that's where apps live...
Dec 11 10:38:47 <timeless> the front page is advertising
Dec 11 10:38:48 <sivang> then I have File Manager, RSS, App Mnaager
Dec 11 10:38:51 <sivang> that's all!
Dec 11 10:38:57 <timeless> oh, you're using SDK?
Dec 11 10:38:58 <sivang> I would have seen it if it were there.
Dec 11 10:39:01 <sivang> yes
Dec 11 10:39:09 <sivang> why isn't it included inthe SDK /
Dec 11 10:39:10 <sivang> ?
Dec 11 10:39:11 * timeless wonders which repo has xterm
Dec 11 10:39:32 <sivang> I want to install ROXTerm
Dec 11 10:39:33 <odin_> oh yes some of my widgets (or whatever) crashed on the home screen, yesterday. i have not rebooted N900 to get them back
Dec 11 10:39:34 <timeless> well, the sdk lets you use your favorite shell/tty
Dec 11 10:39:36 <johnx> sivang, because if you're using the SDK you're on a machine that has a terminal?
Dec 11 10:39:47 <timeless> so for most people it's bloat
Dec 11 10:39:56 <odin_> things like facebook, messages, wlan0 IP, GPRS Tx/RX counters all gone
Dec 11 10:40:01 <sivang> johnx: yes, but I want to create a demo showing the terminal in action on the SDK
Dec 11 10:40:06 <sivang> johnx: I have a specific reason
Dec 11 10:40:25 <johnx> ok. then the SDK doesn't meet your needs, because it's an SDK, not a demo.
Dec 11 10:40:33 <odin_> the other icons restarted, like the bookmarks and the default calander screen and Maemo Select, Ovi Store icons
Dec 11 10:40:58 <Jagoo> out of curiosity, is the actual phone radio API directly accessible by maemo applications?
Dec 11 10:41:12 <timeless> sivang: i'd use Mer
Dec 11 10:41:14 * sivang is trying to install ssh client on the SDK, but r.m.o does not respond
Dec 11 10:41:21 <odin_> anyone know the program that makes them appear?  and if it can't be setup to auto-restart on crash ?
Dec 11 10:41:22 <sivang> timeless: what's Mer ?
Dec 11 10:41:28 <timeless> ~Mer
Dec 11 10:41:29 <infobot> [mer] http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer
Dec 11 10:41:58 <odin_> Jagoo, I belive so, there are is documentation, try http://maemo.org/development/  looke for "Reference"
Dec 11 10:42:10 <sivang> timeless: I see
Dec 11 10:42:51 <timeless> jagoo: the fm radio app in the repo is a python app
Dec 11 10:43:00 <plr_> whoa, an update to the sdk already? nice
Dec 11 10:43:19 <Jagoo> I am not talking fm radio
Dec 11 10:43:26 <Jagoo> I am talking radio as in umts/gsm
Dec 11 10:43:38 <Jagoo> like, could you write your own "phone" application?
Dec 11 10:43:41 <timeless> what do you want to do
Dec 11 10:43:50 <timeless> attack the cellular network?
Dec 11 10:43:58 <timeless> the phone ui is based on telepathy
Dec 11 10:44:02 <timeless> (and dbus)
Dec 11 10:44:05 <sivang> I am trying to make a demo and a talk about how easy it to use python for testing stuff on the device, can't I use to SDK for that?
Dec 11 10:44:14 <sivang> especially testing widgets.
Dec 11 10:44:18 <timeless> telepathy documentation is mostly hosted somewhere else, but it's public
Dec 11 10:44:23 <Jagoo> I wouldnt want to attack the cellular network, I work for a big operator :)
Dec 11 10:44:30 <sivang> that's why I want to use an term that is instalalble on the device, and show the interactive prompt on it
Dec 11 10:44:38 <odin_> http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/telepathy-glib/  ??
Dec 11 10:44:43 <anidel> anyone having issues in entering text in Canola ?
Dec 11 10:45:11 <timeless> odin: wow, documentation
Dec 11 10:45:11 * sivang doesn't understand why is it so hard to get a term app from the SDK from the UI desktop itself
Dec 11 10:45:13 <timeless> how distressing and shocking
Dec 11 10:45:24 <timeless> sivang: find the right repo, and it shoudl be simple
Dec 11 10:45:38 <timeless> have you enabled extras-devel ?
Dec 11 10:45:46 <sivang> timeless: I can't even download for the official ones :)
Dec 11 10:46:05 <johnx> your resolv.conf is probably not pointing to real nameservers
Dec 11 10:46:05 <Myrtti> I install everything from the scratchbox prompt
Dec 11 10:46:18 <sivang> johnx: ah, so to my host's ones ?
Dec 11 10:46:21 * sivang checks
Dec 11 10:46:23 <timeless> sivang: your scratchbox has a bad /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf or something
Dec 11 10:46:32 <timeless> you need resolv.conf and nsswitch.conf to not suck
Dec 11 10:46:57 <sivang> timeless: thaks dude, I thght this was the problem but then israeli sites worked quite well and fast so I figured resolve.conf is okay
Dec 11 10:47:06 <anidel> no one ;)
Dec 11 10:47:52 <sivang> holy crap
Dec 11 10:48:02 <sivang> it has the previous ISP DNS's!
Dec 11 10:48:05 <sivang> I'll be damned
Dec 11 10:48:09 * sivang fixes
Dec 11 10:48:16 * sivang hates network manager
Dec 11 10:48:23 <pupnik> :)
Dec 11 10:48:33 <sivang> network manager is such a ...
Dec 11 10:48:54 <johnx> ...wonderful thing when it's working?
Dec 11 10:49:00 <sivang> I guess :)
Dec 11 10:49:10 <sivang> are we using it on the maemo desktop for netowrk awareness and setup ?
Dec 11 10:49:16 <Stskeeps> no, they have ICD2
Dec 11 10:49:24 <sivang> thank goodness
Dec 11 10:49:28 <Stskeeps> which is old but for some reason is better than networkmanager..
Dec 11 10:49:29 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 11 10:49:46 <johnx> (for a very limited subset of what nm is supposed to do)
Dec 11 10:49:56 <timeless> johnx: a wonder that it ever works at all?
Dec 11 10:50:29 <timeless> well, icd2 fails at handling multiple networks
Dec 11 10:50:31 <sivang> timeless: eheh
Dec 11 10:50:37 <sivang> guys, sorry for almost becoming a trol
Dec 11 10:50:37 <timeless> (not that nm manages that particularly well)
Dec 11 10:50:38 <sivang> trool
Dec 11 10:50:42 <johnx> nm is surprisingly workable here. it even does auto-magic NAT sharing ok
Dec 11 10:50:42 <sivang> I got on the wrong side today
Dec 11 10:50:53 <sivang> johnx: it does that quite well, yes
Dec 11 10:51:07 <sivang> johnx: but screws NS all the tiem when itnernet chantes and roamin is enabled
Dec 11 10:51:12 <johnx> sivang, trying to make the SDK do something useful is enough to make anyone feel trollish. sorry I was short with you about it
Dec 11 10:51:19 <timeless> nm ui actually makes me appreciate maemo ui design
Dec 11 10:51:21 <johnx> but it really isn't "demo" material
Dec 11 10:51:26 <sivang> johnx: that;s okay ::-)
Dec 11 10:51:27 <timeless> which is something i really do not like to admit to ever doing
Dec 11 10:51:47 <sivang> johnx: I know, until I get my machine I have to use it
Dec 11 10:51:52 <timeless> alright, group hug!
Dec 11 10:51:57 * sivang hugs!
Dec 11 10:51:59 <johnx> timeless, as in the latest n-m? or older ones?
Dec 11 10:52:13 <sivang> "This is what we have, and with this we shall win!"
Dec 11 10:52:15 <timeless> johnx: the last one i used was mer 0.15/0.16
Dec 11 10:52:33 <sivang> is it okay to use Mer's stuff inside the SDK ?
Dec 11 10:52:36 <timeless> or maybe there was one in the maemosdk vmware image
Dec 11 10:52:38 <sivang> (or teh device, for that matter)
Dec 11 10:53:04 <johnx> the one in the newest ubuntu is marginally nicer (which is to say it imitates the mac os x wifi-menubar-plugin a bit better)
Dec 11 10:53:05 <Jagoo> telepathy/dbus both seem to be related to the UI, not actual phone radio functions, I dont see anything related to "establishing a phone call" or "sending an sms" in the docs
Dec 11 10:53:07 <timeless> there's  always a risk in pulling in anything from anywhere :)
Dec 11 10:53:36 <sivang> I see, if in doubt, compile ? :)
Dec 11 10:53:48 <sivang> s/compile/debuild/
Dec 11 10:53:48 <infobot> sivang meant: I see, if in doubt, debuild ? :)
Dec 11 10:54:14 <timeless> jagoo: my guess is you need to make a channel
Dec 11 10:54:15 <Stskeeps> if in doubt, help out with mer ;p
Dec 11 10:54:31 <sivang> hehe
Dec 11 10:54:34 <sivang> will do
Dec 11 10:55:45 <timeless> jagoo: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/
Dec 11 10:56:14 <sivang> is it okay to install aan os2008 deb on the sdk ?
Dec 11 10:56:24 <sivang> let's leave aside the question if ti will work or not
Dec 11 10:56:32 <sivang> (due to ABI crapness)
Dec 11 10:57:48 <timeless> not a great idea, but it might not ruin your sdk
Dec 11 10:57:52 <Jagoo> timeless: thanks :)
Dec 11 10:58:10 <timeless> specifically: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Recipes
Dec 11 10:58:15 <timeless> you want :"make an audio call"
Dec 11 10:58:47 <sivang> timeless: k, thanks dude
Dec 11 10:58:56 <timeless> jagoo: btw, i'm looking forward to a competing (open source) phone ui
Dec 11 10:59:02 * sivang is running for the train, talk to you all alter.
Dec 11 10:59:55 <timeless> sivang: hag sameach?
Dec 11 10:59:57 <Jagoo> timeless: I wouldnt hold my breath, unless you want to have a CLI interface :)
Dec 11 11:00:19 <timeless> jagoo: i build ui's in zenity
Dec 11 11:00:27 <timeless> if you give me a cli that's usable, i'll probably take it
Dec 11 11:00:42 <sivang> timeless: how do you kno ?!
Dec 11 11:00:54 <timeless> well, shabbat starts a bit sooner here
Dec 11 11:01:01 <timeless> and we have to light hanukah candles first
Dec 11 11:01:06 <timeless> so i have ~30mins to prepare
Dec 11 11:01:08 <sivang> timeless: true, you also celebrate shabat ?
Dec 11 11:01:16 <timeless> yes.
Dec 11 11:01:18 <sivang> timeless: oh cool :)
Dec 11 11:01:30 <timeless> that's why i disappear on fridays
Dec 11 11:01:37 <timeless> not that you'd be in a position to notice.
Dec 11 11:02:04 <sivang> I guess not :)
Dec 11 11:02:08 <timeless> still haven't figured out what your name means
Dec 11 11:02:13 <timeless> sivan g ?
Dec 11 11:02:16 <sivang> Sivan Greenberg
Dec 11 11:02:21 <timeless> gotcha
Dec 11 11:02:24 * timeless hates translit
Dec 11 11:02:34 <timeless> such a royal pain for my tiny little mind
Dec 11 11:02:35 <hrw> btw - is there a way to play audio/video on n900 from remote samba share without manually mounting it?
Dec 11 11:03:21 <sivang> Sivan = the month of april in the hebrew calander, Greenberg, formly Grinberg fromly Grunberg int he original
Dec 11 11:03:38 <zeenix> hrw: yes
Dec 11 11:03:45 <timeless> yeah, once i tried i realized the parsing should have been sivan
Dec 11 11:03:52 <zeenix> hrw: it's call Rygel: http://live.gnome.org/Rygel
Dec 11 11:03:58 <timeless> and it made a lot more sence
Dec 11 11:03:59 <zeenix> s/call/called/
Dec 11 11:04:00 <infobot> zeenix meant: hrw: it's called Rygel: http://live.gnome.org/Rygel
Dec 11 11:04:32 <zeenix> hrw: oh you said samba, no! i don't know of any :)
Dec 11 11:04:54 <Stskeeps> export them over upnp?
Dec 11 11:05:08 <pupnik> how many windows do you usually have open?  i am usually around 6-10
Dec 11 11:05:20 <hrw> zeenix: upnp handle also videos? I know that audio works because tried one day
Dec 11 11:06:04 <Micha_> hrw: yes, my n900 automagically picked up my upnp server (audio&video) at home and can stream all assets.
Dec 11 11:07:02 <hrw> thx
Dec 11 11:07:15 <hrw> now need to select good upnp server and isntall on sheeva
Dec 11 11:07:28 <hrw> zeenix, Micha_: which one do you suggest?
Dec 11 11:07:45 <Mece> I have a feeling that my N900 uses battery power while plugged in after it's fully charged. Can anyone confirm this?
Dec 11 11:08:28 <pupnik> id like to try upnp too
Dec 11 11:08:53 <Micha_> hrw: I use Mediatomb. Works a treat, also for my PS3.
Dec 11 11:10:31 <hrw> will try ushare - it is already packaged
Dec 11 11:10:55 <X-Fade> Mece: Sure, it is. But it will start charging again when a certain level is reached?
Dec 11 11:12:00 <hrw> awesome!
Dec 11 11:12:14 <zeenix> hrw: packaged for?
Dec 11 11:12:39 <hrw> zeenix: angstrom
Dec 11 11:12:42 <zeenix> hrw: afaik, it's abondoned project
Dec 11 11:13:03 <hrw> yes - "By lack of spare time, motivation and interest, uShare development is currently discontinued (this may change though). Don't expect release anytime soon :-("
Dec 11 11:13:14 <zeenix> hrw: try rygel, i am the developer and Nokia pays me to write/maintain it so it's an active project :)
Dec 11 11:13:25 <hrw> zeenix: ok
Dec 11 11:13:48 <X-Fade> zeenix: Any eta for arrival in Extras? :)000
Dec 11 11:14:01 <hrw> zeenix: Depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.20.0), libc6 (>= 2.2.5), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libdbus-1-3 (>= 1.0.2), libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.78), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.4.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgee2, libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.18.0), libgssdp-1.0-2 (>= 0.7.0), libgstreamer0.10-0 (>= 0.10.23), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.18.0), libgupnp-1.0-3 (>= 0.13.1), libgupnp-av-1.0-2 (>= 0.5.2), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libsoup2.4-1 (>= 2.27.92), libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.6.20), libuuid1 (
Dec 11 11:14:15 <hrw> zeenix: sheevaplug is headless...
Dec 11 11:14:19 <zeenix> X-Fade: as soon as libsoup is upgraded
Dec 11 11:14:25 <hrw> zeenix: and those are deps of rygel in Debian
Dec 11 11:14:32 <zeenix> hrw: why should that be a problem?
Dec 11 11:14:41 <X-Fade> zeenix: What is the minimum version you need?
Dec 11 11:15:06 <hrw> zeenix: I prefer to keep system as minimal as possible - 512MB storage for everything (except media files)
Dec 11 11:15:06 <zeenix> hrw: there is no UI involved and i know at least one person who is running rygel on a headless machine
Dec 11 11:15:40 <zeenix> X-Fade: 2.26 iirc
Dec 11 11:15:50 <zaheerm> zeenix, lisoub 2.26 is in extras-devel
Dec 11 11:16:28 <zaheerm> parallel installable with older libsoup, it is used by webkit there
Dec 11 11:17:22 <X-Fade> zeenix: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libsoup2.26-1
Dec 11 11:17:37 <zeenix> cool
Dec 11 11:17:45 <X-Fade> zeenix: The only thing you need to do is make sure you use that library name instead.
Dec 11 11:17:56 <zeenix> i guess i'll kick fatal then
Dec 11 11:18:19 <julianoliver> hi. after an act of foolishness /bin/sh points to /bin/bash and i can no longer open the Terminal application. what's the easiest remedy?
Dec 11 11:18:25 <X-Fade> zeenix: Let him ping me if there are any issues.
Dec 11 11:18:34 <woglinde> jo
Dec 11 11:18:36 <zeenix> X-Fade: will do, thanks
Dec 11 11:18:42 <woglinde> hm n900 arrvied here at work
Dec 11 11:18:54 <woglinde> unfornatly my co-worker has it now
Dec 11 11:18:56 <woglinde> *g*
Dec 11 11:21:22 <julianoliver> is there a way to reach an X terminal without using the Terminal shortcut?
Dec 11 11:21:29 <Stskeeps> ctrl-shift-
Dec 11 11:21:30 <Stskeeps> x
Dec 11 11:22:24 <julianoliver> Stskeeps: thanks. it seems that X terminal also relies on /bin/sh pointing to busybox
Dec 11 11:22:38 <julianoliver> Stskeeps: unfortunately, /bin/sh -> /bin/bash and so i can't start a terminal application.
Dec 11 11:23:13 <Stskeeps> julianoliver: /bin/sh being bash works fine on Mer.
Dec 11 11:23:15 <Stskeeps> er,, or dash
Dec 11 11:23:32 <julianoliver> Stskeeps: yes i am running stock Maemo 5 here.
Dec 11 11:23:36 <Jagoo> a port of "blacklist" (for both calls and sms) and "total recall" (record phone calls as audio file, without the "beep") for Maemo would be very very nice :)
Dec 11 11:23:43 <nomis> tigert: did you create a "no-fuzz" theme for the N900?
Dec 11 11:24:04 <julianoliver> Stskeeps: what is the best solution here? how do i reach a shell?
Dec 11 11:24:13 <Stskeeps> julianoliver: ssh?
Dec 11 11:24:31 <tigert> nomis: ?
Dec 11 11:24:47 <julianoliver> Stskeeps: this seems to silently fail now also..
Dec 11 11:26:00 <nomis> tigert: I liked your blue theme for the older devices (forgot how it was named).
Dec 11 11:26:22 <Stskeeps> julianoliver: time for a backup+reflash
Dec 11 11:27:46 <julianoliver> Stskeeps: is there no way to boot the N900 into a root shell?
Dec 11 11:27:59 <Stskeeps> julianoliver: nop, but i have said for a year it would be a good idea :P
Dec 11 11:28:01 <julianoliver> (without splash etc?)
Dec 11 11:28:05 <julianoliver> hehe
Dec 11 11:28:43 <julianoliver> Stskeeps: is there perhaps another terminal application i could install?
Dec 11 11:28:49 <julianoliver> or even reinstall it perhaps..
Dec 11 11:29:04 <Stskeeps> julianoliver: maybe diablo's roxterm, but dunno if it works
Dec 11 11:29:29 * julianoliver tries this
Dec 11 11:32:51 <timeless_mbp> hrm
Dec 11 11:32:57 <timeless_mbp> is it a bad idea to try to fly on christmas day?
Dec 11 11:33:10 <Stskeeps> depends on if the pilots are drunk or bitter
Dec 11 11:33:11 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 11 11:33:24 <Stskeeps> i'd be more worried about 1. january
Dec 11 11:33:38 <julianoliver> hehe
Dec 11 11:33:39 <timeless_mbp> ok, how about i fly wed dec 23 and return mon jan 4
Dec 11 11:33:49 <timeless_mbp> and i'll deal w/ the mess of getting around later
Dec 11 11:34:11 <arachnist> http://vjarmy.com/archives/2009/12/best_error_message_of_2009.php
Dec 11 11:34:14 <timeless_mbp> 300 GBP for the flight
Dec 11 11:35:37 <Gadgetoid_mbp> timeless_mbp: just don't try and fly with wax wings
Dec 11 11:35:45 <timeless_mbp> thanks
Dec 11 11:37:41 <timeless_mbp> right, flying christmas eve is a bad idea
Dec 11 11:41:28 <timeless_mbp> hrm, cheaptickets will deliver my tickets by post
Dec 11 11:41:49 <X-Fade> timeless_mbp: No eticket?
Dec 11 11:41:53 <timeless_mbp> nope
Dec 11 11:41:57 <X-Fade> timeless_mbp: How old fashioned ;)
Dec 11 11:42:01 <timeless_mbp> i want to fly HEL to Manchester
Dec 11 11:42:26 <X-Fade> Btw, I managed to check in by putting my N900 under a barcode reader in Australia.
Dec 11 11:42:38 <timeless_mbp> why
Dec 11 11:42:40 <timeless_mbp> wow
Dec 11 11:42:42 <timeless_mbp> gah
Dec 11 11:42:45 <X-Fade> Laser barcode scanned worked fine ;)
Dec 11 11:42:57 <X-Fade> *scanner
Dec 11 11:44:13 <X-Fade> Pretty cool when you can just use you e-ticked PDF on your phone display ;)
Dec 11 11:44:13 <Stskeeps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0-KQ6wPJ04
Dec 11 11:44:19 <julianoliver> ugh, so it looks like /bin/sh -> /bin/bash totally bricks the N900.
Dec 11 11:44:24 <julianoliver> that was foolish.
Dec 11 11:44:55 <julianoliver> is there no way to reach a terminal hosting /bin/bash without using the Terminal shortcut?
Dec 11 11:45:22 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Getting sea sick ;)
Dec 11 11:45:26 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: yeah.. not my video
Dec 11 11:46:20 <arachnist> julianoliver: ssh
Dec 11 11:47:50 <julianoliver> arachnist: it silently fails as ssh looks for /bin/sh
Dec 11 11:48:53 <julianoliver> arachnist: i'd love to find some way to pull up a root busybox or bash shell.
Dec 11 11:49:04 <julianoliver> would save me having to reflash..
Dec 11 11:49:45 <range> X-Fade: That's one of the reasons why I'd like MMS on the N900, as the german railway company sells tickets that way: You get a QR-Code via MMS which then gets scanned on the train. They don't send those per mail, though.
Dec 11 11:50:25 <X-Fade> range: Well, if your phone doesn't support MMS, you will get an URL I guess ;)
Dec 11 11:50:27 <arachnist> julianoliver: you could try creating a .desktop file launching "osso-xterm -e /bin/bash"
Dec 11 11:50:39 <X-Fade> range: So you can view the link online?
Dec 11 11:50:50 <arachnist> julianoliver: or better: ask someone to create a package that'd do that
Dec 11 11:51:08 <range> Hmmm. Actually I think you can get them to send a test MMS. let me see what happens to that on the N900 (didn't think of that).
Dec 11 11:51:18 <julianoliver> arachnist: right. perhaps i could create this file with the text editor..
Dec 11 11:51:41 <X-Fade> range: t-mobile does that for me at least.
Dec 11 11:52:01 <redeeman> i get those links in DK aswell
Dec 11 11:52:51 <julianoliver> arachnist: installing the package without /bin/sh won't be possible i think..
Dec 11 11:53:32 <julianoliver> arachnist: and the note-taking application doesn't seem to like saving notes anywhere other than the desktop.
Dec 11 11:53:49 <julianoliver> i mean.. it /doesn't/ save to the desktop. so that's no good.
Dec 11 11:54:46 <arachnist> julianoliver: isn't MyDocs accessible when you connect the device over usb to a pc?
Dec 11 11:55:01 <arachnist> julianoliver: i think you should be able to launch .desktop files using the file manager
Dec 11 11:55:02 <julianoliver> hmm.. there's a good thought.
Dec 11 11:59:02 <tigert> julianoliver: ctrl-shift-x
Dec 11 11:59:04 <tigert> works?
Dec 11 11:59:48 <florian> Is there a way to share the Internet connection of the N900?
Dec 11 12:00:16 <tigert> hi florian :)
Dec 11 12:00:25 <florian> hi tigert
Dec 11 12:00:44 <Veggen> florian: there's always a way.
Dec 11 12:00:44 <tigert> florian: at least via usb cable it connects my mac to teh tubes of the interweb
Dec 11 12:01:04 <Veggen> not necessarily an official, toolkit-supported, way, though.
Dec 11 12:01:12 <florian> ok, I should have asked a more prcise question :)
Dec 11 12:01:18 <X-Fade> florian: bluetooth-dun in extras-devel
Dec 11 12:01:30 <florian> Veggen: this should have been the question :)
Dec 11 12:01:34 <Veggen> but of course it supports echo "1">/proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/forwarding
Dec 11 12:01:39 <Veggen> or wherever it is.
Dec 11 12:01:40 <florian> right
Dec 11 12:02:27 <florian> X-Fade: sounds like a start
Dec 11 12:02:59 <Markus23> I have the n900, it is so great :-)
Dec 11 12:03:35 <X-Fade> florian: http://intr.overt.org/blog/?p=74
Dec 11 12:04:33 <Jaffa> Yay, getting patches for Hermes.
Dec 11 12:04:55 <X-Fade> OSS at it's best :)
Dec 11 12:05:11 <julianoliver> arachnist: i turned the N900 off and rebooted and of course it fails. it's bricked :(
Dec 11 12:05:32 <julianoliver> arachnist: it wasn't mounting and so rebooting seemed the next logical step.
Dec 11 12:05:43 <florian> uh... garage is slow today
Dec 11 12:05:49 <arachnist> julianoliver: :/
Dec 11 12:05:55 <lardman> florian: today?! ;)
Dec 11 12:05:56 <andre__> julianoliver, bricked means that it's unrevertible. which is highly unlikely.
Dec 11 12:06:09 <andre__> tried reflashing?
Dec 11 12:06:28 <hrw> zeenix: rygel require vala to be installed during build?
Dec 11 12:06:38 <lardman> andre__: we need a new name for temporarily unworkable machines, rather than bricked
Dec 11 12:06:47 <julianoliver> andre__: i'm about to try, yes. a lot of important data on there! i did a backup before rebooting, but it seemed not to save images/video/source code directories.
Dec 11 12:06:48 <andre__> lardman, yes.
Dec 11 12:06:50 <lardman> perhaps paperweighted
Dec 11 12:06:57 <lardman> not quite the same ring though
Dec 11 12:07:02 <julianoliver> lardman: indeed
Dec 11 12:07:07 <andre__> "borked"?
Dec 11 12:07:23 <julianoliver> anyway, if /bin/sh -> /bin/bash the N900 is broke.
Dec 11 12:07:26 <lardman> sounds fine to me
Dec 11 12:07:33 <nomis> brocked.
Dec 11 12:07:52 <florian> lardman: make it an "extra slow today" :-)
Dec 11 12:08:01 <lardman> florian: ah ok
Dec 11 12:08:28 <nomis> (with a slight reference to the german word "brocken": lump, boulder, crumbs
Dec 11 12:08:39 <zeenix> hrw: no
Dec 11 12:08:57 <hrw> zeenix: ok
Dec 11 12:08:58 <lardman> nomis: sounds good too
Dec 11 12:09:01 <zeenix> hrw: if you use release tarballs
Dec 11 12:09:46 <hrw> zeenix: I am attempting to build 0.4.6
Dec 11 12:09:52 * lardman goes to make bacon sarnie
Dec 11 12:09:56 <lardman> mmmm
Dec 11 12:11:23 <hrw> zeenix: m4_esyscmd comes from gnome m4 macros?
Dec 11 12:11:24 <Dialekt> hi
Dec 11 12:11:54 <hrw> ignore
Dec 11 12:11:57 <zeenix> hrw: great! more help on this topic on #gupnp (irc.gimp.org)
Dec 11 12:12:46 <hrw> 5th network...
Dec 11 12:13:33 <hrw> zeenix: m4_esyscmd([GNOME_TAG_PATTERN=RYGEL build-aux/git-version-gen .tarball-version]) - but there is no build-aux/git-version-gen in 0.4.6 tarball
Dec 11 12:14:23 <yabo> Hi
Dec 11 12:14:44 <zeenix> hrw: weird, let me check..
Dec 11 12:18:27 <Stskeeps> oh good, fanoush has a n900 now
Dec 11 12:18:27 <woglinde>  re
Dec 11 12:18:34 <woglinde> troll?
Dec 11 12:18:55 <Stskeeps> hmm? :P
Dec 11 12:18:58 <mece> Stskeeps, yay! I've been waiting for him to hack it to bits :)
Dec 11 12:19:24 <Dialekt> ?
Dec 11 12:19:31 <yabo> Has nokia communicated on when they woul add ovi support for the n900 ? I didn't find any clear statement from them but only expectations in various forums. :-/
Dec 11 12:19:40 <Dialekt> i'm dying for change..
Dec 11 12:19:55 * Dialekt looks through devices..n900, n97, DROID, Hero
Dec 11 12:21:53 <VDVsx_> yabo, dunno, but they just blocked the access to the store
Dec 11 12:22:37 <yabo> VDVsx, hmm, what could it mean ?
Dec 11 12:22:41 <red> hey, i just got a sms contact card on n900
Dec 11 12:22:57 <red> its a link
Dec 11 12:23:03 <yabo> The reason why I bought a n900 was to be able to always have my agenda on me and to sync it
Dec 11 12:23:15 <VDVsx_> yabo, the opened the store yesterday for test, it seems
Dec 11 12:23:18 <red> i click it and it asks to do a new contact or merge
Dec 11 12:23:21 <yabo> oh ok
Dec 11 12:23:29 <yabo> Thanks
Dec 11 12:23:30 <red> but there is no info
Dec 11 12:23:39 <red> so is it bugged or wtf
Dec 11 12:23:50 <VDVsx_> yabo, http://thenokiablog.com/2009/12/10/ovi-store-nokia-n900-not-open/
Dec 11 12:24:06 <VDVsx_> I downloaded a bunch of games :P
Dec 11 12:24:39 <yabo> :-)
Dec 11 12:24:50 <red> guess ill ask for  the number as an sms msg instead
Dec 11 12:25:03 <red> ill be back to rant :p
Dec 11 12:25:22 <woglinde> Stskeeps args I read god isntead of good
Dec 11 12:25:36 <lardman> red: hang on
Dec 11 12:25:46 <lardman> red: why don't you save the vCard and look at it?
Dec 11 12:26:13 <furunk3l> greetings
Dec 11 12:26:35 <VDVsx_> yabo, here is the list of 'app's there, just from one publisher: http://pastebin.ca/1710217 (retrieved yesterday)
Dec 11 12:27:04 <yabo> VDVsx, in fact I already installed some of those
Dec 11 12:27:10 <rmrfchik> how can I setup desktop box (linux) to auto assign network on usb0 when n810 connects?
Dec 11 12:27:15 <yabo> offscr-speedometer
Dec 11 12:27:16 <yabo> for example
Dec 11 12:27:27 <yabo> But I had to do the apt-get install by hand
Dec 11 12:27:35 <VDVsx> yabo, yes, same here
Dec 11 12:28:36 <furunk3l> oh
Dec 11 12:28:50 <furunk3l> i know the offscr stuff from symbian
Dec 11 12:28:57 <red> lardman: there is no info in the contact card
Dec 11 12:29:04 <red> even via hold - save
Dec 11 12:29:39 <furunk3l> are the packages also in the extras-devel repos?
Dec 11 12:29:47 <red> oh fuck this
Dec 11 12:29:49 <tekonivel> wtf the Maemo email client doesn't wrap long lines
Dec 11 12:29:58 <yabo> I don't have the extras-devel repos, only extras and extras-testing
Dec 11 12:29:58 <red> i opened dial pad while on the phone
Dec 11 12:30:00 <tekonivel> this has to be a joke
Dec 11 12:30:06 <VDVsx> furunk3l, no, Ovi repository
Dec 11 12:30:12 <red> typed the number there but no option to save
Dec 11 12:30:14 <furunk3l> oh?
Dec 11 12:30:21 <VDVsx> furunk3l, but was taken down today
Dec 11 12:30:25 <red> and it disappeared when call ended
Dec 11 12:30:25 <furunk3l> meh
Dec 11 12:30:31 <red> pos..
Dec 11 12:30:44 <furunk3l> i assume the ovi store will be up soon then
Dec 11 12:31:02 <yabo> and all the ovi services with it
Dec 11 12:31:03 <VDVsx> yabo, careful with extras-devel :)
Dec 11 12:31:31 <yabo> VDVsx,  I said I didn't use extras-devel, only extras-testing
Dec 11 12:31:41 <VDVsx> yabo, :)
Dec 11 12:32:18 <yabo> Though I'd like to install Qt 4.6 to try to play a bit
Dec 11 12:33:23 <Markus23> yabo: is Qt 4.6 already in repository?
Dec 11 12:33:24 <tekonivel> it's possibly the mime content type "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed" that the maemo email client fails to handle properly.
Dec 11 12:33:25 <tekonivel> nice
Dec 11 12:34:28 <VDVsx> Markus23, yes, in -devel
Dec 11 12:34:40 <yabo> Markus23, http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon#Installing_Qt_packages_in_Scratchbox
Dec 11 12:35:38 <Stskeeps> wazd o/
Dec 11 12:36:30 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, heya)
Dec 11 12:38:23 * kalikiana wonders if SpeedCrunch could be ported on Maemo
Dec 11 12:46:23 <tigert> hmm
Dec 11 12:46:34 <tigert> does anyone know about python home applet?
Dec 11 12:46:35 <tigert> or
Dec 11 12:46:45 <tigert> I wish to have an applet which gets METAR string from teh internet
Dec 11 12:46:51 <tigert> and displays it in the desktop
Dec 11 12:46:53 <Corsac> n900 release in France looks like a big fail
Dec 11 12:46:59 <tigert> like the homeip applet does
Dec 11 12:47:03 <Corsac> maybe they don't have enough azerty ones produces
Dec 11 12:47:06 <Corsac> produced*
Dec 11 12:47:09 <wazd_n800> VDVsx, you don't need to be sorry for anything)
Dec 11 12:47:25 <yabo> Corsac,  I've an azerty N900 bought two days ago in France :)
Dec 11 12:47:36 <Corsac> yabo: at tph?
Dec 11 12:47:38 <red> french are a big fail
Dec 11 12:47:41 <yabo> yep
Dec 11 12:47:44 <Corsac> red: you're a big fail
Dec 11 12:47:56 <VDVsx> wazd_n800, seems that the council has no power on that, or some people don't like you :P
Dec 11 12:48:00 <Corsac> yabo: out of interest, which contract did you get?
Dec 11 12:48:15 <red> you guys just want to do everything differently and whine about it :p
Dec 11 12:48:30 * red spent 2 years there
Dec 11 12:48:39 <ale-x> hi hackers!
Dec 11 12:48:43 <yabo> Corsac, I have little use of 3G as I live in Paris so almost always have a Wifi connection. So I went for the cheapest one providing the best price for the N900 : Bouygues Telecom Evasio
Dec 11 12:48:48 <wazd_n800> VDVsx, maybe)
Dec 11 12:48:51 <Corsac> k
Dec 11 12:48:56 <kalikiana> red, never go to Asia, they don't even write in Latin letters :-P
Dec 11 12:49:20 <wazd_n800> VDVsx, but at least I can thank all those generous people)
Dec 11 12:49:46 <ale-x> I've been trying to get SDK+ working here for days now
Dec 11 12:49:53 <VDVsx> wazd_n800, well the Council at least was generous :)
Dec 11 12:49:55 <Corsac> yabo: here it seems like a lot of TPH don't have it and can't order it (and as they have exclusivity, other stores only mark it as “available soon”)
Dec 11 12:50:26 <ale-x> anyone knows how to get rid of "'libfakeroot-sysv.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded"
Dec 11 12:50:42 <yabo> Corsac, oh, lucky me then :)
Dec 11 12:50:59 <Corsac> yabo: and you can't even go to a store, buy it and leave the store with it, you have to wait like 2 days before they receive it. do you confirm?
Dec 11 12:51:23 <yabo> Corsac, yes I confirm. I bought it monday and got it on wednesday
Dec 11 12:51:36 <yabo> Because they keep them all in a central depot and have to ship them to the store
Dec 11 12:51:51 <Micha_> ale-x: Did you get it after downloading the nokia-binaries?
Dec 11 12:52:11 <Corsac> yabo: ok
Dec 11 12:52:16 <Corsac> (that kind-of sucks :)
Dec 11 12:52:29 <Corsac> yabo: out of interest (i'm in paris too), which store did you buy it from?
Dec 11 12:52:32 * Stskeeps passes wazd_n800 a cookie and a beer
Dec 11 12:52:34 <yabo> Clearly.
Dec 11 12:53:00 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, no, no more bear please)
Dec 11 12:53:17 <ale-x> Micha: no, I wanted to enter my i386 sb2
Dec 11 12:53:21 <Stskeeps> wazd_n800: hehe, rough night last night?
Dec 11 12:53:33 <yabo> Corsac, 15 BOUL. MONTMARTRE, 75002
Dec 11 12:53:38 <Corsac> ok
Dec 11 12:53:43 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, I'm already feeling like an astronaut )
Dec 11 12:53:52 <Micha_> ale-x: I mean, since when did the message start occuring, immediately after installing sb2, or after you tried to download the nokia-binaries package inside sb2?
Dec 11 12:54:31 <ale-x> Micha_: I downloaded and setup the armel rootstrap without that problem
Dec 11 12:54:49 <ale-x> Micha_: and I never got that error until I tried sb2 -eR
Dec 11 12:55:04 <ale-x> Micha_: with i386 target
Dec 11 12:55:35 <Micha_> ale-x: I only got it after installing additional packages inside sb2, but in my case I can fix it as follows:
Dec 11 12:55:42 <Micha_> ale-x: sb2 -eR
Dec 11 12:55:51 <Micha_> ale-x: cd /usr/lib
Dec 11 12:56:33 <Micha_> ale-x: rm libfakeroot
Dec 11 12:56:44 <Micha_> ale-x: ln -s /usr/lib/libfakeroot .
Dec 11 12:57:22 <Micha_> Basically the symlink got trashed because libfakeroot-net gets installed inside sb2 as a dependecy of nokia-binaries.
Dec 11 12:57:32 <ale-x> aha
Dec 11 12:57:51 <Micha_> Are you on a 64-bit or 32-bit host?
Dec 11 12:57:54 <ale-x> I'll try with a virgin rootstrap and report back
Dec 11 12:57:55 <ale-x> 64
Dec 11 12:58:50 <Micha_> Ok, you might have to ln -s /opt/maemo/dists/lenny-2009-1/usr/lib/libfakeroot/ instead then.
Dec 11 12:59:19 <ale-x> Micha_: I already thought so *g*
Dec 11 12:59:24 <Micha_> So far I have fixed a bunch of problems trying to install the i386 rootstrap, but I've never ended with a fully working one.
Dec 11 12:59:54 <ale-x> which is funny, because armel works except that hildon doesn't start
Dec 11 13:00:05 <Micha_> ale-x: Here's my notes so far: http://www.micha.name/Programming/Maemo/Maemo5_SDKPlus_InstallationNotes.txt
Dec 11 13:00:22 * Micha_ would be very grateful for a fully working install :)
Dec 11 13:01:07 <Micha_> Yes, the armel target is fine for compiling, but it's known that the emulation is not stable enough to run the system.
Dec 11 13:07:57 <ale-x> Micha_: thank you for your great tip. "ln -s /opt/maemo/dists/lenny-2009-1/usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-sysv.so ~/.maemo-sdk/rootstraps/i386/fremantle5.0minimal_i386/usr/lib/libfakeroot/." did the trick
Dec 11 13:08:17 <Micha_> ale-x: No worries; took me a few days to work out.
Dec 11 13:09:20 <Micha_> ale-x: Let me know if you get a full hildon interface running under the i386 target
Dec 11 13:10:50 <ale-x> Micha_: atm I'm installing nokia-apps and nokia-binaries from archive cache, shouldn't take long
Dec 11 13:23:02 <odin_> what granularity are OneNAND flash pages?
Dec 11 13:28:46 <RST38h> moo
Dec 11 13:29:09 <odin_> bah
Dec 11 13:29:34 <woglinde> moo
Dec 11 13:30:21 <anidel> bih
Dec 11 13:30:51 <odin_> how are you today farmer RST38h ?
Dec 11 13:36:52 <SinofEnvy> maybe stupid question, but is it possible to develop an application for the N900 which just turns on one of the LED flashes for the camera with the click of a button, until you click it again to turn it off? does the sdk allow you to control the hardware like that? or is this impossible
Dec 11 13:37:12 <SinofEnvy> (basically for a flashlight app, I saw one but I think it just used the regular screen on full brightness or something? instead of the camera flash which is way brighter)
Dec 11 13:37:37 <RST38h> odin: well fed.
Dec 11 13:38:43 <odin_> SinofEnvy, does the camera light support continious on mode ?  since its a "flash" and its designed to "flash"
Dec 11 13:38:56 <cehteh> SinofEnvy: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Flash_Torch
Dec 11 13:39:04 <SinofEnvy> I'm not sure... does it? :p
Dec 11 13:39:18 <cehteh> it has 3 modes .. indicator (dim) light, torch mode and flash
Dec 11 13:39:28 <cehteh> feel free to implement an app for that
Dec 11 13:39:28 <SinofEnvy> ah okay, thanks cehteh
Dec 11 13:39:34 <cehteh> or send me a device then i'll do :P
Dec 11 13:39:51 <cehteh> be careful with the flash level you can easily fry your leds
Dec 11 13:40:02 <SinofEnvy> haha nah that's okay, I know a bit of C and I can probably figure it out.. I just don't have my N900 yet (can arrive any moment now, due today :>) so I wasn't sure
Dec 11 13:40:13 <cehteh> eww :P
Dec 11 13:40:24 <SinofEnvy> eww? :
Dec 11 13:40:24 <v2n900> ~flashing
Dec 11 13:40:25 <infobot> flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Dec 11 13:40:26 <SinofEnvy> :O
Dec 11 13:40:52 <cehteh> i dont have a device yet and i expect it wil still take some weeks
Dec 11 13:41:05 <SinofEnvy> yeah I was lucky
Dec 11 13:41:25 <SinofEnvy> really lucky. they were all out of stock here, but I found this one site that had it ... I ordered it, checked 2 hours later, and it was out of stock on there as well
Dec 11 13:41:42 <odin_> ~hotcakes ?
Dec 11 13:41:46 <SinofEnvy> immediately cancelled my other order :p
Dec 11 13:42:12 <odin_> mine was shipped from NL
Dec 11 13:42:23 <cehteh> i should prolly order at all places which have it for less than 500Eur
Dec 11 13:42:32 <SinofEnvy> hmm. what site odin_?
Dec 11 13:42:35 <SinofEnvy> or Nokia Netherlands?
Dec 11 13:42:40 <odin_> nokia.co.uk
Dec 11 13:42:42 <odin_> shop.nokia.co.uk
Dec 11 13:42:56 <odin_> arrived 2 wks ago
Dec 11 13:43:20 <SinofEnvy> lucky then I guess? since iirc the UK had the biggest supply issues in europe, no?
Dec 11 13:43:27 <cehteh> well you paied more
Dec 11 13:43:41 <cehteh> SinofEnvy: i bet germany has :)
Dec 11 13:43:56 <cehteh> even the nokia shop is sold out
Dec 11 13:44:23 <odin_> no idea.. I ordered it only 2 to 3 weeks before, was given the date when they were due to receive them into warehouse, by the Wed the following week it was with courrier on its way to me (i guess the 2 day delay was since I ordered last)
Dec 11 13:45:14 <odin_> dispatch warehouse was in NL
Dec 11 13:45:19 <wazd> k, I'm out to the hospital
Dec 11 13:46:17 <Oli``> If you were smart, you would have pre-ordered it when there were two 15%-off voucher codes available that stacked. My n900 was the best deal I ever had. </smug>
Dec 11 13:46:57 <odin_> what 15% off vouchers?  maybe some people as just richer than you and don't care?
Dec 11 13:47:12 <cehteh> i just wait
Dec 11 13:47:20 <Oli``> odin_: it was a while back... few weeks before launch
Dec 11 13:47:29 <cehteh> amazon?
Dec 11 13:47:47 <Oli``> No, nokia vouchers for use on the nokia shop
Dec 11 13:48:03 <SinofEnvy> I'd wait but I'm impatient as hell :(
Dec 11 13:48:29 <cehteh> no idea where you get those .. but since i ordered for less than 500Eur and it costs over 600 at nokia i dont care about 15%
Dec 11 13:48:32 <yabo> Oli``, curiosity : how much did you pay it ?
Dec 11 13:48:35 <SinofEnvy> I'd been watching the N900 since like october so when it was actually coming out I just couldn't wait for a price drop anymore (with all the delays and all)
Dec 11 13:48:47 <SinofEnvy> I spent less than 500 as well though
Dec 11 13:48:58 <Oli``> yabo: ÂŁ360-something inc ÂŁ10 next day delivery
Dec 11 13:49:37 <Oli``> sorry, ÂŁ370.52
Dec 11 13:49:42 <SinofEnvy> I efficiently spent €420
Dec 11 13:50:17 <cehteh> its not that urgent for me .. getting something well tested (by all you test bunnies bwahaha) from the 2nd or 3rd batch hardware with most of the problems fixed for 100Eur less is ok for me :P
Dec 11 13:50:35 <cehteh> SinofEnvy: where?
Dec 11 13:50:46 <yabo> Oli``, that's 410€ right ?
Dec 11 13:50:54 <SinofEnvy> yabo, yes
Dec 11 13:50:55 <cehteh> well .nl not .de :/
Dec 11 13:51:25 <SinofEnvy> and cehteh, well, random shop but I cheated a little... I didn't include tax, because at the end of the year I get it back because I wrote it off as business phone :x
Dec 11 13:51:58 <yabo> I got it for 199 € here in France with a 37€ / month subscription with "illimited" 3G
Dec 11 13:52:06 <Oli``> SinofEnvy: good point... in that case, I "paid" ÂŁ322.19
Dec 11 13:52:16 <yabo> (limited to 500 Mo / month)
Dec 11 13:52:25 <Jaffa> cehteh: We're already on h/w revision 4 or 5 ;-p
Dec 11 13:52:40 <Oli``> yabo: that's not bad
Dec 11 13:53:04 <Oli``> although I could easily burn through 500megs in a week =\
Dec 11 13:53:07 <cehteh> Jaffa: the better :)
Dec 11 13:54:46 <yabo> Oli``, I have little use of 3G, I prefer wifi
Dec 11 13:54:54 <yabo> so it's more for vacations or travels
Dec 11 13:55:59 <julianoliver> when i attach my N900 via USB to my Debian machine and select 'Mass Storage' i consistently get "unable to connect via USB: device in use".
Dec 11 13:56:02 <julianoliver> any ideas?
Dec 11 13:56:09 <julianoliver> it worked before the latest firmware
Dec 11 13:56:55 <cehteh> soemthing keeps the storage mounted
Dec 11 13:57:07 <Oli``> julianoliver: I've had that once but (unhelpfully for you) I restarted my Ubuntu PC and the phone, tried again and it worked
Dec 11 13:57:08 <cehteh> do you have some app running accessing data on it?
Dec 11 13:57:42 <julianoliver> cehteh: no, i don't.
Dec 11 13:57:53 <julianoliver> i've just reflashed and plugged the device in.
Dec 11 13:58:05 <cehteh> or last time you didnt unplugged it safely
Dec 11 13:58:06 <julianoliver> Oli``: i'll try a restart of the phone, first.
Dec 11 13:58:11 <julianoliver> cehteh: yes, it's possible.
Dec 11 13:58:22 <julianoliver> cehteh: reboot the phone and the laptop?
Dec 11 13:58:30 <cehteh> check if there is a stale mount
Dec 11 13:58:39 <ccooke> Good Afternoon
Dec 11 13:58:59 <julianoliver> cehteh: no, there isn't.
Dec 11 13:59:09 <cehteh> well dunno then
Dec 11 13:59:09 <julianoliver> i'll reboot the laptop.
Dec 11 13:59:15 <julianoliver> bbs
Dec 11 13:59:27 <cehteh> .. did i say that storage thing will be the first thing to disable :P
Dec 11 13:59:45 <cehteh> reformat as ext4 and make networking over usb
Dec 11 14:01:56 <flux> wow, has anyone else noticed that the device apparently can serve alarms even when powered off?-o
Dec 11 14:02:11 <flux> apparently symbians also did that, though
Dec 11 14:02:13 <tigert> its not really totally off
Dec 11 14:02:19 <flux> obviously :)
Dec 11 14:02:24 <tigert> if theres a battery
Dec 11 14:03:49 <DerSaidin> anyone know a way I can run a bash script whenever I connect to a specific lan? (or every 5 mins, but it only works on 1 lan)
Dec 11 14:04:13 <Corsac> DerSaidin: run a script in cron and detect the current selected wlan?
Dec 11 14:04:25 <Corsac> (maybe the info is available in dbus or something like that)
Dec 11 14:04:27 <DerSaidin> Corsac: I didn't find a cron
Dec 11 14:04:32 <Corsac> oh :/
Dec 11 14:06:01 <tigert> theres dbus for finding out about lan
Dec 11 14:06:09 <tigert> and there is an alarm framework iirc
Dec 11 14:06:42 <VDVsx> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide^
Dec 11 14:06:53 <VDVsx> ups: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide
Dec 11 14:09:12 <DerSaidin> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Alarm_Framework
Dec 11 14:09:21 <DerSaidin> ok, somewhat excessive for running a bash script :p
Dec 11 14:09:32 <DerSaidin> but I guess it would be usefull if it was made configurable
Dec 11 14:09:42 <DerSaidin> (ie, crontab)
Dec 11 14:09:48 <yabo> there should be a cron implementation using that framework
Dec 11 14:10:54 <Corsac> DerSaidin: ans isn't cron available at all?
Dec 11 14:11:38 <Corsac> DerSaidin: in maemo4 there was a cron package
Dec 11 14:12:18 <awben> hi all
Dec 11 14:12:50 <DerSaidin> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/alarmd/ that sounds like it might be close enough to cron
Dec 11 14:13:15 <awben> someone on who can help me with a calendar problem?
Dec 11 14:13:33 <yabo> awben, what's your problem ?
Dec 11 14:14:07 <awben> i tried to open a lokus notes calendar (ics)
Dec 11 14:14:29 <awben> the phone open the calendar and shows me ca. 6000 enrys
Dec 11 14:14:31 <Mysterious> hello everybody
Dec 11 14:15:04 <awben> after storing the calendar in a new one, it shows sero entries
Dec 11 14:15:12 <yabo> awben, I never tried to open an ics file :/
Dec 11 14:15:46 <awben> it is funny.... i cant see any entrys, but this morning i got an alarm for one entry
Dec 11 14:16:03 <yabo> haha
Dec 11 14:16:11 <awben> :-)
Dec 11 14:16:35 <awben> maybe a remember of the twilight zone
Dec 11 14:16:36 <awben> ^^
Dec 11 14:17:03 <awben> i can see only the birthdays... but they are from my contacts
Dec 11 14:17:58 <awben> i tried 2 synchronise the calendar with my 9300i... but it doesnt works...
Dec 11 14:19:10 <flux> has maemo 5 sdk been getting updates, or would the one I installed a month (or so) ago be still up-to-date?
Dec 11 14:22:16 <hrw> flux: "fakeroot apt-get update;fakeroot apt-get upgrade" should update your sdk anyway
Dec 11 14:23:13 <flux> hrw, oh, ok
Dec 11 14:23:55 <hrw> flux: remember - nevermind how they broke Debian on which they base, it is still a bit of Debian under
Dec 11 14:24:13 <flux> ;)
Dec 11 14:27:36 <yabo> is there a maemo roadmap somewhere (not talking about maemo 6 but the updates to the 5) ?
Dec 11 14:28:05 <hrw> yabo: next firmware should get working Modest (compared to current not usable state)
Dec 11 14:28:54 <cehteh> imap idle?
Dec 11 14:29:05 <yabo> hrw, ok, thanks
Dec 11 14:29:54 <hrw> cehteh: large accounts with lot of folders and emails
Dec 11 14:30:12 <cehteh> nice .. i absolutely need that
Dec 11 14:30:21 <flux> for the record, the sdk has apparently only a handful of non-critical (just guessing) updates during the last month or so
Dec 11 14:30:32 <cehteh> well imap idle support would be nice, i have some hopes anyone fixes that
Dec 11 14:31:06 <hrw> cehteh: for me n900 is only able to tell that I have new email. but it takes eons to get it to show it
Dec 11 14:31:26 <cehteh> hrw: yes, i seen that on the sdk
Dec 11 14:31:27 <Dialekt> hmm
Dec 11 14:31:42 <cehteh> modest is kindof braindead/unuseable
Dec 11 14:31:45 <cehteh> in some ways
Dec 11 14:31:56 <hrw> cehteh: maybe it works for pop3 accounts
Dec 11 14:32:18 <yabo> hrw, I have a quite large email account using imap and it works. A bit slow though. Over wifi (didn't try over 3G)
Dec 11 14:32:42 <cehteh> no imap subscription support, no imap idle, no subfolders .. i didnt figured out if it has threading for messages
Dec 11 14:32:44 <hrw> yabo: sure, it works here too. But I do not have patience to wait half hour just to get list of emails
Dec 11 14:32:47 <yabo> But I guess it depends on what "large" means
Dec 11 14:32:52 <yabo> yes
Dec 11 14:33:03 <cehteh> and i have a lot huge mail folders with more than 30k messages
Dec 11 14:33:35 <yabo> I've the same though with less messags (more around 5-10 k)
Dec 11 14:33:47 <hrw> yabo: my S60 phone with ProfiMail application do check of 7-10 subscribed folders (~18000 mails in total) in 5 minutes. and it display 14k folder in few seconds
Dec 11 14:34:09 <Hukka> I only have about 9k mails in my inbox, but modest doesn't have a search feature...
Dec 11 14:34:11 <ccooke> I think I must have burned out some important part of my brain - I'm enjoying the "Only 30% cost of the n900 is justifiable" thread...
Dec 11 14:34:12 <pupnik_> how much would it cost to design and produce a different back cover for n900 that could take 2 batteries in parallel?
Dec 11 14:34:18 <yabo> Is Modest the only mail client for maemo ?
Dec 11 14:34:20 <Hukka> Kinetic scrolling doesn't appeal to me quite that much
Dec 11 14:34:35 <hrw> Hukka: does Modest has something at all?
Dec 11 14:34:48 <hrw> yabo: the only one integrated probably
Dec 11 14:34:52 <cehteh> there is claws mail for maemo .. not sure if its ported to n900/maemo5 yet
Dec 11 14:34:55 <Hukka> hrw: Well, it pops a notification when new mail comes?
Dec 11 14:35:02 <ccooke> pupnik_: Hmm. Say two days of work and around $100, with additional covers costing about $50.
Dec 11 14:35:04 <pupnik_> would make it about 4mm thicker, and require some little bridgepiece between batteries
Dec 11 14:35:05 <Hukka> That's something
Dec 11 14:35:17 <ccooke> pupnik_: that's the cover alone, though - you'd need electronics.
Dec 11 14:35:33 <pupnik_> nah i cheat and bridge batteries
Dec 11 14:35:34 <ccooke> Oh, and the whole process would take about a month or two.
Dec 11 14:35:40 <pupnik_> how come cover so cheap?
Dec 11 14:35:41 <ccooke> I'm thinking of shapeways
Dec 11 14:35:54 <yabo> You could also always have 2 batteries with you and switch them
Dec 11 14:36:04 <yabo> but it requires a shutdown of the device though
Dec 11 14:36:07 <ccooke> basically, use existing 3d imaging stuff to get a 3d model of the official cover.
Dec 11 14:36:35 <ccooke> Redesign it, then ship that to shapeways using a cheap material. That will probably be wrong, so refine that over a few attempts.
Dec 11 14:36:36 <awben> how about a fuel cell
Dec 11 14:36:39 <awben> :-)
Dec 11 14:36:45 <pupnik_> mhm, the slider camera cover would add to cost a lot
Dec 11 14:36:51 <yabo> awben, nuclear powered cell :)
Dec 11 14:37:04 <ccooke> Once you have a workable design, print it in a more solid material as a final test... then you're done :-)
Dec 11 14:37:12 <awben> some fuel cells are available for notebooks
Dec 11 14:37:21 <pupnik_> ty for the shapeways info
Dec 11 14:37:31 <ccooke> (note that shapeways take a *lot* longer to print metal objects)
Dec 11 14:37:43 <pupnik_> btw bmw and vw have abandoned fuel cells
Dec 11 14:38:29 <ccooke> yabo: not viable :-)
Dec 11 14:38:34 <xorAxAx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator
Dec 11 14:39:25 <awben> for that, u need big pockets
Dec 11 14:40:05 <xorAxAx> nah, you can build small ones as well
Dec 11 14:40:48 <tigert> so folks
Dec 11 14:40:48 <awben> i can use the phone nearby 24 hours with one loead
Dec 11 14:41:07 <tigert> has anyone manaed to make that adblock plus installed?
Dec 11 14:41:28 <awben> but i go 2 offline mode in the night
Dec 11 14:42:58 <xorAxAx> perkele
Dec 11 14:43:40 <naxxatoe> awben: the best power saver is still for me to turn off wifi auto scan and auto connect
Dec 11 14:43:54 <awben> copy that
Dec 11 14:44:00 <Laiska> aaah,first ever n900 irc experience
Dec 11 14:44:01 <naxxatoe> that does the trick quite well, the downside is i have to connect manually when i get somewhere
Dec 11 14:44:08 <GeneralAntilles> tigert, zerojay's package in Extras?
Dec 11 14:44:26 <naxxatoe> with not much running in the background
Dec 11 14:44:31 <awben> and 2 increase the time of refreshing weather and so on
Dec 11 14:44:34 <naxxatoe> and listiening to music about 3 hours a day
Dec 11 14:44:52 <naxxatoe> i get about mhh 48 hours of batt life
Dec 11 14:44:53 <naxxatoe> till empty
Dec 11 14:45:05 <awben> how long do u use it?
Dec 11 14:45:14 <awben> i have it since last week friday
Dec 11 14:45:35 <awben> 48 hours is very good
Dec 11 14:45:46 <naxxatoe> got it like 1 weeek ago
Dec 11 14:45:49 <naxxatoe> maybe one and a half
Dec 11 14:45:49 <Hukka> Hmh, ipython doesn't run.
Dec 11 14:46:08 <naxxatoe> also its quite nice to turn off 3g
Dec 11 14:46:11 <naxxatoe> if you dont need it
Dec 11 14:46:16 <Hukka> Oh well, here begins the actual work (the one that isn't fun at the same time)
Dec 11 14:46:18 <naxxatoe> that is a big power saver too
Dec 11 14:46:20 <tigert> hmm
Dec 11 14:46:36 <awben> i lost a lot of battery capacity, trying 2 get my f**** notes calendar into the phone
Dec 11 14:46:43 <pupnik_> normal phone users will need to learn that battery life varies tremendously on an advanced power saving platform like this
Dec 11 14:46:58 <naxxatoe> yeah
Dec 11 14:47:26 <awben> "normal" phone users. should choose another phone
Dec 11 14:47:27 <awben> ^^
Dec 11 14:48:07 <pupnik_> show the bounce evolution demo to folks.... wetpants
Dec 11 14:48:24 <naxxatoe> we need more good apps on the n900
Dec 11 14:48:26 <GeneralAntilles> Awesome, Talk users want to "remove" the CPU clock "governor".
Dec 11 14:48:42 <naxxatoe> but its kinda hard to do, i have so many great ides (some already sketeched on paper)
Dec 11 14:48:49 <naxxatoe> and i suck at doing graphical stuff
Dec 11 14:48:51 <SpeedEvil> force it to 800GHz!
Dec 11 14:49:04 <pupnik_> naxxatoe: any ideas u wanna shate?
Dec 11 14:49:05 <pupnik_> share
Dec 11 14:49:06 <SpeedEvil> pupnik_: neads moar levals.
Dec 11 14:49:09 <ccooke> SpeedEvil: I see you're playing to your nick...
Dec 11 14:49:18 <awben> ive got no 3g at the moment
Dec 11 14:49:36 <SpeedEvil> Having said that - I would like more governor flexibility.
Dec 11 14:49:42 <SpeedEvil> But not on that side really.
Dec 11 14:49:57 <odin_> looking at http://www.mimomonitors.com/  (wishing someone produced a "net-book" sized screen 10" to 12.1", with "net-book" sized resolutions 1024x640 to 1280x960 via a USB2 link)
Dec 11 14:49:57 <naxxatoe> pupnik_: i have a couple, stuff like a finance management tool (that keeps track of your expenses, something really useful to road warriors and so on),
Dec 11 14:50:00 <pupnik_> SpeedEvil: i guess so.  it is so well done.  such happy colors.  i dont wanna show folks openarena
Dec 11 14:50:02 <SpeedEvil> For example queuing inbound and outbound packets from processes for 30s.
Dec 11 14:50:06 <naxxatoe> various addons to the calendar wich is a real mess
Dec 11 14:50:13 <GeneralAntilles> zerojay, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=422656
Dec 11 14:50:19 <pupnik_> naxxatoe: yeah i need expense tracker
Dec 11 14:50:22 <naxxatoe> a location tool that allows you to swithc locations
Dec 11 14:50:29 <pupnik_> manual agps
Dec 11 14:50:30 <SpeedEvil> And stalling them for most of the time, to make them ~100% idle, and reduce radio use, and CPU
Dec 11 14:50:33 <naxxatoe> and turn on wifi/3g based on that
Dec 11 14:50:38 <naxxatoe> pupnik_: agps is doable
Dec 11 14:50:42 <naxxatoe> i thought about that yesterday
Dec 11 14:50:51 <pupnik_> it works great when cell radio is on
Dec 11 14:50:53 <naxxatoe> all we need is a database of satilites
Dec 11 14:51:08 <naxxatoe> like nokia has
Dec 11 14:51:08 <pupnik_> so clearly the gps software could be changed to allow user-assist
Dec 11 14:51:10 <SpeedEvil> naxxatoe: the problem is we have no docs on the formats of stuff
Dec 11 14:51:16 <naxxatoe> then we have a mini web server
Dec 11 14:51:16 <awben> anyone else problems withe the calendar?
Dec 11 14:51:17 <naxxatoe> and a sniffer
Dec 11 14:51:22 <pupnik_> i should charge for my advice
Dec 11 14:51:26 <naxxatoe> change the url in the config interface and go
Dec 11 14:51:31 <naxxatoe> ;)
Dec 11 14:51:37 <naxxatoe> pupnik_: you good with graphical stuff?
Dec 11 14:52:26 <pupnik_> not any more
Dec 11 14:52:33 <naxxatoe> damn
Dec 11 14:52:47 <pupnik_> the world moved-on
Dec 11 14:52:51 <naxxatoe> need a coding partner to push cool projects, as my graphics stuff sucks ;)
Dec 11 14:52:55 <pupnik_> why u need gfx
Dec 11 14:53:00 <naxxatoe> not gfx
Dec 11 14:53:09 <naxxatoe> i just dont get along with lets say qt
Dec 11 14:53:11 <pupnik_> ui stuff?
Dec 11 14:53:14 <naxxatoe> yup
Dec 11 14:53:15 <pupnik_> ah
Dec 11 14:53:27 <pupnik_> port some sdl games then :)
Dec 11 14:53:31 <naxxatoe> i am more the high performance computing and security guy
Dec 11 14:53:41 <pupnik_> is great for noobs to get started
Dec 11 14:53:45 <pupnik_> ahh
Dec 11 14:53:48 <pupnik_> nm
Dec 11 14:53:52 <naxxatoe> ;)
Dec 11 14:53:55 <naxxatoe> afk for a bit
Dec 11 14:54:39 <GeneralAntilles> Man, there is NO productive troubleshooting going on on Talk.
Dec 11 14:54:47 <pupnik_> right
Dec 11 14:54:55 <GeneralAntilles> It's a lot of clueless people helping other clueless people arrive at incorrect conclusions.
Dec 11 14:54:55 <pupnik_> we d
Dec 11 14:55:07 <pupnik_> we do that direct with mainteners
Dec 11 14:55:38 <pupnik_> adding regulatory hoops to tinyproject maintenance is a waste of life
Dec 11 14:56:31 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: And the phone isn't even available to the unwashed masses who can get given it on a contract yet. They have to seek it out.
Dec 11 14:56:48 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: So the ones on talk are the smart ones.
Dec 11 14:57:22 <GeneralAntilles> "smart"
Dec 11 14:57:44 <GeneralAntilles> It's like the WiFi thread, I can't even find a productive bug on the issue.
Dec 11 14:57:57 <SpeedEvil> Imagine 6 months, when some carriers are giving the n900 out to iphone users cold.
Dec 11 14:58:05 <lbt_> lcuk: hey --- dominic says they've removed the offending clauses
Dec 11 14:58:11 <wazd_5130> Vdvsx, around?
Dec 11 14:58:13 <lbt_> we should be good to go
Dec 11 15:00:56 <pupnik_> SpeedEvil: i hope after 6 months some of the annoyances will be fixed.
Dec 11 15:01:16 <pupnik_> nokians, please fill your N900s with media files
Dec 11 15:01:23 <pupnik_> join us
Dec 11 15:01:34 <Stskeeps> heh, tracker
Dec 11 15:01:41 <Stskeeps> because indexing files should be O(1)? :P
Dec 11 15:01:52 <SpeedEvil> pupnik_: Sure. But they will find new and stupid ones.
Dec 11 15:02:07 <GeneralAntilles> The WiFi one seems pretty stupid
Dec 11 15:02:16 <SpeedEvil> pupnik_: many of which are not in scope - such as carrier performance.
Dec 11 15:02:16 <GeneralAntilles> I wish somebody would dive in and troubleshoot it.
Dec 11 15:02:19 <pupnik_> yes.  also media players should notify users if their index is not uptodate.  on startup i have very slow device performance for a couple of minutes.
Dec 11 15:02:38 <GeneralAntilles> pupnik_, Apple uses a statusbar icon for that.
Dec 11 15:02:43 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia could easily do the same.
Dec 11 15:02:43 <pupnik_> GeneralAntilles: aha!
Dec 11 15:05:09 <pupnik_> grep track /etc/init.d/* > (0) results GeneralAntilles
Dec 11 15:05:32 <pupnik_> hjashahah i was on my pc
Dec 11 15:05:50 <VDVsx> wazd_5130, yes
Dec 11 15:05:54 <VDVsx> new phone, lol
Dec 11 15:06:50 <wazd_5130> Yeah)
Dec 11 15:08:06 <SpeedEvil> Should the suggestions of the keyboard be statistically based? I mean - I go to enter a new appointment - 'driving les' - as I have done several times before - and it suggests to complete that with 'bians' - not 'driving lesson'.
Dec 11 15:08:26 <pupnik_> I wish i still had my original VT100 terminal
Dec 11 15:08:34 <pupnik_> would be a gas to hook up to n900
Dec 11 15:09:02 <pupnik_> GeneralAntilles: i don't see what invokes tracker - it ought to be able to run at a lower priority, no?
Dec 11 15:10:00 <GeneralAntilles> pupnik_, I think it DOES run at a low priority.
Dec 11 15:10:06 <GeneralAntilles> bug #6862
Dec 11 15:10:07 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6862 Add status area item to indicate Tracker activity
Dec 11 15:10:32 <GeneralAntilles> SpeedEvil, autocomplete is just horribly and uselessly broken.
Dec 11 15:10:41 <GeneralAntilles> Save yourself the suffering and turn it off. ;)
Dec 11 15:10:47 <wazd_5130> I was thinking if you need analogue sticks for ps3 profile
Dec 11 15:10:48 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: I find it not quite useless.
Dec 11 15:11:17 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: If I pick really long words with unique beginnings, it greatly boosts my typing speed
Dec 11 15:11:21 <GeneralAntilles> SpeedEvil, it picks phrases its acquired from your typing over dictionary phrases.
Dec 11 15:11:32 <yabo> I wish they had put a tab key on the keyboard to use the autocompletion
Dec 11 15:11:33 <pupnik_>  wazd_5130 just ordered a BT ps3 controller for experiments
Dec 11 15:11:35 <GeneralAntilles> It also interferes with removing typos.
Dec 11 15:11:41 * SpeedEvil tries to remember when he typed driving lesbians.
Dec 11 15:11:47 <GeneralAntilles> Which I still don't understand, jrocha!
Dec 11 15:12:24 <VDVsx> wazd_5130, that not sure, that might be tricky
Dec 11 15:12:36 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, what don't you understand?
Dec 11 15:12:37 <yabo> SpeedEvil, could be more interesting to than a car ;)
Dec 11 15:12:38 <wazd_5130> Pupnik, hehe)
Dec 11 15:12:53 <SpeedEvil> yabo: indeed.
Dec 11 15:12:58 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, what possible point having the backspace key remove the autocomplete suggestion serves.
Dec 11 15:13:07 <GeneralAntilles> (other than forcing me to turn off autocomplete)
Dec 11 15:13:12 <yabo> sp3000, maybe the phone is smarter than you think and tries to make a suggestion :)
Dec 11 15:13:36 <wazd_5130> Vdv, i mean just buttons, without analogue stuff
Dec 11 15:13:41 <yabo> (s/sp3000/SpeedEvil)
Dec 11 15:13:43 <pupnik_> GeneralAntilles: ok how about this - when user starts N900, they generally want to do some stuff.  Maybe if we had the 'out of sync' icon, we could delay invocation of the tracker for a minute or two?
Dec 11 15:13:57 <pupnik_> Right now, it is "Turn on N900, walk away"
Dec 11 15:14:11 <GeneralAntilles> pupnik_, Apple doesn't let you stop out-of-box Spotlight indexing either.
Dec 11 15:14:18 <GeneralAntilles> Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.
Dec 11 15:14:23 <VDVsx> wazd_5130, humm, no need, they do the same thing as the dpad, at least in the PS2
Dec 11 15:14:27 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, the point is that at that moment the *last* thing you did/have was to receive the word suggest, backspace removes that last thing
Dec 11 15:14:33 <jrocha> it's clear for me
Dec 11 15:14:35 * RST38h moos at pupnik, wazd, VDVsx, and General
Dec 11 15:14:43 * VDVsx moos back
Dec 11 15:14:53 <pupnik_> GeneralAntilles: maybe media indexes are the problem
Dec 11 15:14:53 <wazd_5130> Rst, heya
Dec 11 15:15:04 <RST38h> Anyone has any ideas why Vulture's fails updating?
Dec 11 15:15:05 <jrocha> if the backspace deleted the last char and an other suggestion was received it'd look intrusive for me...
Dec 11 15:15:05 <VDVsx> RST38h, have packages to test ? I have :P
Dec 11 15:15:12 <pupnik_> you know, a filesystem is there, to organize your data
Dec 11 15:15:19 * RST38h has done some research this morning but nothing conclusive
Dec 11 15:15:25 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, so, let's say I'm typing along and I hit a typo (frequent occurrence when typing on the N900 keyboard). It stands to reason that the thing I'd want to delete was the typo, right?
Dec 11 15:15:26 <RST38h> VDV:sx: a moment =)
Dec 11 15:15:29 <pupnik_> also media tracker picking up graphics images from games is not good.
Dec 11 15:15:37 <RST38h> 09:27
Dec 11 15:15:58 <RST38h> 09:27 Baltimore, MD - USA With delivery courier
Dec 11 15:16:02 <wazd_5130> Rst, my n800 is temp dead so I have to use java irc)
Dec 11 15:16:03 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, well, right now, if I want to delete that typo I have to typo backspace TWICE to remove the autocomplete which was AUTOMATICALLY inserted.
Dec 11 15:16:07 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, but to remove that type is two key strokes away!
Dec 11 15:16:17 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, so, twice the effort, right?
Dec 11 15:16:31 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, but you still haven't explained WHY the autocomplete needs to be deleted by backspace.
Dec 11 15:16:36 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, what purpose does it serve?
Dec 11 15:16:52 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, bug number please ?
Dec 11 15:16:55 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, note: I know of no other autocomplete system on any other platform that does it this way. :)
Dec 11 15:17:18 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, what should happen in your opinion then? remove the char and the autocomplete?
Dec 11 15:17:26 <yabo> GeneralAntilles, innovations are always misunderstood :)
Dec 11 15:17:50 <VDVsx> RST38h, oh, I meant apps, lol
Dec 11 15:17:59 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, autocomplete should be based on whatever characters are currently in the word. If you remove the last character, then the autocomplete suggestion changes.
Dec 11 15:18:00 <andre__> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5369
Dec 11 15:18:01 <povbot> Bug 5369: Backspace removes auto-completion text but does not delete last typed char
Dec 11 15:18:18 * VDVsx didn't ordered the DDP device, since his a poor guy :)
Dec 11 15:18:21 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, why does the delete key need to remove the autocompletion text?
Dec 11 15:18:25 <wazd_5130> Rst, can i buy your qwerty nokia please?)
Dec 11 15:18:37 <GeneralAntilles> yabo, point me to the innovation here.
Dec 11 15:18:43 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, well, I would find that really annoying, having the autocomplete popping up every time I hit backspace
Dec 11 15:18:56 <yabo> GeneralAntilles, I was kidding :)
Dec 11 15:19:02 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, isn't that the purpose of autocomplete?
Dec 11 15:19:11 <jrocha> no
Dec 11 15:19:13 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, to show you suggestions based on what you have typed out now?
Dec 11 15:19:23 <GeneralAntilles> and to REDUCE the amount of work it takes to typo?
Dec 11 15:19:37 <GeneralAntilles> Right now it's pretty much only succeeding in INCREASING the amount of work.
Dec 11 15:19:42 <GeneralAntilles> (which is why I've turned it off)
Dec 11 15:19:47 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, the purpose is to give you a suggestion of what you typed, not what you are left after removing stuff
Dec 11 15:19:55 <RST38h> wazd: ohmygod
Dec 11 15:20:00 <pupnik_> http://library.gnome.org/devel/libtracker-common/unstable/
Dec 11 15:20:04 <RST38h> wazd: My current one is a loaner =)
Dec 11 15:20:23 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, I'm not the designer who invented it. I'm not a designer, I'm a programmer
Dec 11 15:20:28 <Hukka> Hm "PTY allocation request failed on channel 0
Dec 11 15:20:30 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, note: every other platform I've seen with autocomplete does it this way.
Dec 11 15:20:33 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, but as also a N900 user, I like it
Dec 11 15:20:36 <Hukka> When I try to ssh into N900
Dec 11 15:20:41 <wazd_5130> Rst, yeah, a bit sick experience)
Dec 11 15:20:44 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, and here we get to the core issue with Nokia's broken process.
Dec 11 15:20:52 <RST38h> somebody removed libpulse0
Dec 11 15:20:58 <RST38h> I wonder why
Dec 11 15:21:02 <pupnik_> !!
Dec 11 15:21:17 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, I assume it's completely impossible to get to either the manager or the designer (or anybody at all who has the power to fix this glaring bug).
Dec 11 15:21:27 <pupnik_> Hukka: i ssh'd to root no problem.  Specify root
Dec 11 15:21:53 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, why do you think this is a glaring bug? is anyone apart from you complaining about it?
Dec 11 15:22:07 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, yes, everybody here I've asked about it doesn't like it.
Dec 11 15:22:17 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, it's a bug because it's reducing usability, not increasing it.
Dec 11 15:22:17 <Hukka> pupnik_: Did, that is not the cause
Dec 11 15:22:25 <yabo> GeneralAntilles, isn't Maemo open source ? Can't the community fix this ?
Dec 11 15:22:30 <Hukka> pupnik_: Google hits mention broken udev upgrades and missing device files
Dec 11 15:22:31 <pupnik_> http://live.gnome.org/Tracker/Performance   "This page does not exist yet" GeneralAntilles ;)
Dec 11 15:22:37 <wazd_5130> Going deeper underground, bbl
Dec 11 15:22:37 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, it's not that I don't like it. It's that I don't care ;-)
Dec 11 15:22:38 <VDVsx> I don't like it too :( is annoying if you're used to other device
Dec 11 15:22:58 <GeneralAntilles> yabo, not in this particular case, I don't think.
Dec 11 15:23:14 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: we talking about autocomplete crapness?
Dec 11 15:23:17 <VDVsx> and doesn't make any sense for me either
Dec 11 15:23:21 <andre__> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5369
Dec 11 15:23:22 <povbot> Bug 5369: Backspace removes auto-completion text but does not delete last typed char
Dec 11 15:23:26 <yabo> GeneralAntilles, no what ? This part of code isn't open source or it's too complicated to be fixed by the community ?
Dec 11 15:23:30 <lardman> ah, my bug
Dec 11 15:23:39 <pupnik_> Linux Nokia-N900-42-11  Hukka ?
Dec 11 15:23:42 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, yeah, see, I'm inclined not to care either, but mostly because the autocompletion is broken to the point where it's utterly useless.
Dec 11 15:23:43 <jrocha> I don't think basing an experience on whatever devices one used is *always* a good point
Dec 11 15:23:49 <AbstractW> looks like nokia has more N900s in.
Dec 11 15:23:59 <RST38h> VDVsx: You can test VE and SlideRule for exampple =)
Dec 11 15:24:02 <lardman> I note that autocompletion works correctly in desktop GTK apps
Dec 11 15:24:03 <pupnik_> bug 5369 might be considered a feature
Dec 11 15:24:03 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: mostly useless. I find it of more use than not.
Dec 11 15:24:05 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5369 Backspace removes auto-completion text but does not delete last typed char
Dec 11 15:24:06 <Hukka> pupnik_: Yes
Dec 11 15:24:08 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, and yet I've not seen a reasonable justification for why the autocomplete has to be setup this way. :)
Dec 11 15:24:13 <Hukka> Closing all xterms solved this
Dec 11 15:24:17 <Hukka> But not a nice solution...
Dec 11 15:24:19 <RST38h> VDVsx: Maybe even FBReader, if/when I figure out how to make a package of it
Dec 11 15:24:27 <pupnik_> Hukka: you ran out of ptys then
Dec 11 15:24:50 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody who's bothered by this issue, please vote on the bug.
Dec 11 15:24:53 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, we're at 6.
Dec 11 15:25:06 <red> GeneralAntilles: on the backspace issue?
Dec 11 15:25:09 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, which based on b.m.o's usual voting response rate makes it rather non-trivial.
Dec 11 15:25:12 <GeneralAntilles> red, yes.
Dec 11 15:25:13 <red> do i need an acc to vote or is it ip based
Dec 11 15:25:15 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, like I told you, my opinion is, it seems logic to me this way and doesn't get in my way. I cannot give you the original reasoning of why this was thought because I'm not the one who designed it :D
Dec 11 15:25:17 <red> since it bothers me aswell
Dec 11 15:25:21 <GeneralAntilles> red, need to register an account.
Dec 11 15:25:22 <lardman> account
Dec 11 15:25:25 <red> cool
Dec 11 15:25:39 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, again, this goes back to the brokenness in Nokia's process.
Dec 11 15:25:42 <red> id also like to know why a vCard sent from a 60e nokia symbian phone is empty on my n900
Dec 11 15:25:50 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, I tell you what, next week I'll try to rediscuss this issue with the designers
Dec 11 15:25:52 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, if there's any chance you could drag the person accountable out into the bug it'd be much appreciated.
Dec 11 15:25:57 <GeneralAntilles> I'd really like to hear some logic
Dec 11 15:26:01 <GeneralAntilles> because right now I can't find any.
Dec 11 15:26:02 <red> tested few different contacts, and even created a new one with just the phone number in it
Dec 11 15:26:12 <red> has anyone else experienced this?
Dec 11 15:26:45 <red> bugzilla does require login
Dec 11 15:26:49 <red> oh well ill create one
Dec 11 15:26:55 <GeneralAntilles> red, it doesn't take too long.
Dec 11 15:26:55 <red> i have a feeling ill be needing it later on
Dec 11 15:26:59 <GeneralAntilles> and it's pretty useful.
Dec 11 15:27:04 <red> aye
Dec 11 15:27:14 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, I'll try that. Actually I'm sending an email right away to the designers about this matter
Dec 11 15:27:16 <red> got loads of stuff to go vote for / post if its not posted already
Dec 11 15:27:23 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, thanks!
Dec 11 15:27:33 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: I assume commenting negatively on a wontfix is pointless - is voites actually purposeful?
Dec 11 15:27:39 <Hukka> pupnik_: Four is too much?
Dec 11 15:27:58 <lardman> SpeedEvil: yeah votes are an easy metric
Dec 11 15:28:01 <GeneralAntilles> SpeedEvil, votes are useful.
Dec 11 15:28:01 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, what if the backspace deleted the suggestion AND the previous char BUT not suggesting anything?
Dec 11 15:28:04 <lardman> rather than reading posts
Dec 11 15:28:11 <pupnik_> look at /etc/inittab Hukka  - there they are instantiated
Dec 11 15:28:25 <lardman> jrocha: that would be fine, but probably a bit silly
Dec 11 15:28:25 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, that'd be workable.
Dec 11 15:28:29 <pupnik_> i think u should be able to add some
Dec 11 15:28:38 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, although my suggestion here is that the designers look at how other platform do it.
Dec 11 15:28:48 <jrocha> I know I know
Dec 11 15:28:58 <lardman> Damn ui spec! ;)
Dec 11 15:28:58 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, as this is one of those cases where, unless you have something really innovative, deviating from what people are used to doesn't serve much purpose.
Dec 11 15:29:06 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, indeed. :(
Dec 11 15:29:16 <red> Anyone know an media player compatible with n900 that would support genres and folder based (+subfolders)
Dec 11 15:29:23 <GeneralAntilles> I hate that it's the engineers out here taking our flack and not the designers or managers.
Dec 11 15:29:34 <lardman> I'm sure this must annoy Nokians too, but it's in the UI spec and therefore cannot be changed
Dec 11 15:29:37 <red> i have a huge collection sorted into folders by main genre, then subfolders by albums
Dec 11 15:29:40 <GeneralAntilles> red, the built-in one does genres.
Dec 11 15:29:44 <lardman> I wonder if the UI spec writer is very scary or something?
Dec 11 15:29:49 <GeneralAntilles> Canola does folder browsing.
Dec 11 15:29:50 <red> i know, but I need folders aswell
Dec 11 15:29:58 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, I think it's just a broken process.
Dec 11 15:30:01 <red> fex: Rock & Punk folder has rock, alt rock, punk, punk rock, grunge
Dec 11 15:30:05 <pupnik_> I think GeneralAntilles is right again
Dec 11 15:30:09 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, there doesn't seem to be a good way to get fixes into the design.
Dec 11 15:30:10 <red> keeping .pls files up to date is a hazzle
Dec 11 15:30:15 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, I'm actually not at work time anymore but I'll still send the email
Dec 11 15:30:17 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, design bugs don't seem to be a "thing".
Dec 11 15:30:26 <pupnik_> red, i just put media into the proper directory
Dec 11 15:30:29 <pupnik_> what is so hard about that
Dec 11 15:30:46 <SpeedEvil> GeneralAntilles: yeah - see the javascript yes/no thing :/
Dec 11 15:30:47 <red> I have .sound/punk & rock/albumname
Dec 11 15:30:59 <red> but I cannot set the player to play only stuff in punk & rock + subfolders
Dec 11 15:31:03 <pupnik_> lectures/mit  lectures/auburn  songs/jazz songs/rock  etc
Dec 11 15:31:13 <red> since I also have DnB, House, Metal folders set up the same way
Dec 11 15:31:23 <GeneralAntilles> SpeedEvil, or a thousand others over the past 3 years. :(
Dec 11 15:31:25 <pupnik_> right red, because our industry has decided that users are too stupid to organize media
Dec 11 15:31:28 <SpeedEvil> I really hope the GPS phototagging precision isn't one of those - as it seems to be the policy on other phones from nokia.
Dec 11 15:31:29 <pupnik_> and perhaps the industry is right
Dec 11 15:31:34 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, about the designers not enrolling more in discussions, maybe it also has to do with how things are told, I'm used to people being aggressive on mailing lists and stuff but that might scare people that are not taking up with such shit
Dec 11 15:31:40 <pupnik_> but i would rather that our devices not contribute to the IDIOTification of the planet
Dec 11 15:31:41 <red> whats so hard about organizing media :(
Dec 11 15:31:49 <pupnik_> agree with you red
Dec 11 15:32:11 <red> there are programs to do basic sorting for you alread aswell (like jaikoz fex)
Dec 11 15:32:15 <RST38h> pupnik: Just need a decent third party multimedia player AND a way to turn tracker off
Dec 11 15:32:32 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, unfortunately it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Dec 11 15:32:44 <red> had the basic same problem with iphone about folder, but it was neat that I could just drag & drop a folder into a playlist
Dec 11 15:32:50 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, when people get frustrated, they tend to get short and irritable.
Dec 11 15:32:57 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: doesn't seem to be a good way of getting enhancements anywhere either :(
Dec 11 15:32:58 <red> then autosync the playlist and just adding music into playlists instead of folders worked
Dec 11 15:33:12 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, so internal people are less inclined to come out and people get more frustrated.
Dec 11 15:33:22 <VDVsx> lardman, enhancements, did you mean brainstorm :D
Dec 11 15:33:24 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, my personal opinion is that they need to stop hiring people out of S60. ;)
Dec 11 15:33:41 <lardman> VDVsx: wash your mouth out!
Dec 11 15:33:50 <pupnik_> vi /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg
Dec 11 15:33:57 <red> guess I could just work my way around it and autotag all those mp3s as "pop & punk" etc and then it would work, but that would suck for genius playlists on my desk comp
Dec 11 15:33:58 <pupnik_> cooool!  it has initial delay!
Dec 11 15:34:04 <red> and having two copies of a 50gig library is gay aswell
Dec 11 15:34:08 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, well, I like to think that human-beings can reason and understand that sometimes you just need to go slower and be polite
Dec 11 15:34:10 <pupnik_> <3 n900 soo much
Dec 11 15:34:32 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, easier to do when you don't feel like your effort is just getting flushed down a toilet.
Dec 11 15:34:35 <andre__> GeneralAntilles: if the community behaves respectful and patient, this would work. but a few people tend to attack Nokia, and I can also understand Nokians saying "why should I spend my time in the community?"
Dec 11 15:34:39 <pupnik_> flag to RST38h `
Dec 11 15:34:58 <jrocha> andre__, EXACTLY!
Dec 11 15:35:16 <lardman> jrocha: is hard for us though when we make quite decent suggestions and get told "No way, doesn't agree with the UI spec"
Dec 11 15:35:17 <pupnik_> tracker was indexing my documents - elohel!
Dec 11 15:35:23 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, and yes, I can also understand frustration in the community. but saying "but the other party has to start" never works :-)
Dec 11 15:35:23 <temp-ale-x> a question, just out of interest: has anyone of you got an SDK+ to work with i386 rootstrap of freemantle?
Dec 11 15:35:40 <Stskeeps> the opposite argument is that the fact people aren't 'out in the community' causes the tension instead :P
Dec 11 15:35:41 <andre__> lardman, yeah, UI Spec argumentations extremely suck.
Dec 11 15:35:55 <andre__> so we all agree on a chicken and egg problem? :-P
Dec 11 15:35:57 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, I don't think that's the whole story, I think the internet enabled people to do and say whatever they want because you're behind a shield and is free (tm)
Dec 11 15:36:00 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, you can't lay the blame squarely on either side.
Dec 11 15:36:01 <RST38h> Sts: It really has ot be resolved at the case-by-case basis
Dec 11 15:36:01 <Stskeeps> cos we don't know who to gently poke
Dec 11 15:36:08 <lcuk> lbt_, yeah?
Dec 11 15:36:18 <RST38h> Sts: Not all developers should be spending their time online rather than working
Dec 11 15:36:23 <Stskeeps> RST38h: of course
Dec 11 15:36:26 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, respect and disrespectful seems to get you exactly the same distance--nowhere.
Dec 11 15:36:36 <Stskeeps> and not all decisions should be made by community alone, either :P
Dec 11 15:36:37 <pupnik_> man, whoever made tracker, GOOD JOB with that .cfg file
Dec 11 15:36:38 <RST38h> Sts: Some developers (like the GPS guy for example) are better pay some attention to the community
Dec 11 15:36:45 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, so in doubt you should be respectful if it's the same result anyway ;-)
Dec 11 15:36:48 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, after as much time as a lot of folks have put in it becomes quite frustrating.
Dec 11 15:37:04 <jrocha> andre__, exactly
Dec 11 15:37:08 <lcuk> Stskeeps, designers and developers need to be together when coming up with specs to ensure their plans match with the devices and capabilities
Dec 11 15:37:10 <RST38h> Sts: And yes, the UI Spec sucks, and yes, I do not think community participation would help there
Dec 11 15:37:13 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, yeah, I totally agree. And you're way longer around here than me, plus you've put a lot of efforts into Maemo...
Dec 11 15:37:17 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, eventually that leads to meltdowns, however.
Dec 11 15:37:18 <lcuk> and it needs to remain so to follow up afterwards
Dec 11 15:37:37 <RST38h> Sts: Because Good UI Spec mostly depends on the common sense that was missing in the current UI Spec designers
Dec 11 15:37:42 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i'm really happy to see the UX guys/girls out of the woodwork :)
Dec 11 15:37:53 <pupnik_> # Set to true to disable initial indexing when running on battery
Dec 11 15:37:54 <pupnik_> BatteryIndexInitial=false
Dec 11 15:37:59 <lcuk> yes was good thrashing some bits out last week
Dec 11 15:37:59 <pupnik_> nice!
Dec 11 15:38:03 <lcuk> needs to continue
Dec 11 15:38:13 <jaem> pupnik_, where is this cfg file?
Dec 11 15:38:23 <hrw> tracker?
Dec 11 15:38:29 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, but people dealing with you may change and new people may arrive, and if the new guys who can be nicer or worse arrive and see: "hey, this sucks! DO THIS NOW, that MAKES NO SENSE, FIX IT!"... people tend to give up
Dec 11 15:38:36 <RST38h> Sts: Instead of watching users and helping them do their work faster, the current UI spec builds a "beautiful" city-on-the-hill in hopes that the usersand developers will flock to it
Dec 11 15:38:54 <pupnik_> vi /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg
Dec 11 15:38:57 <RST38h> Well, no freaking chance, given how crooked the streets are
Dec 11 15:39:07 <Stskeeps> did any of you read the materials put out about style guide etc?
Dec 11 15:39:07 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 11 15:39:25 <RST38h> Sts: I have read the style guide. It is enough.
Dec 11 15:39:27 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, not pointing this stick to you but if one tries to be more polite when asking for things, results are normally better. you (generic you) should try it ;)
Dec 11 15:39:30 <red> Does any other IM program integrate into contacts like butterfly? Butterfly has problems sensing internet connection and remains in connection error state after I roam to an area where there is no wlan/gprs.
Dec 11 15:39:46 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, unfortunately that's rarely the case.
Dec 11 15:39:49 <red> and only way to get it to reconnect is offline mode -> online mode
Dec 11 15:39:51 <RST38h> Sts: Explaning to me why it is done this way is not going to succeed, as there are multiple ways to accomplish those goals
Dec 11 15:40:16 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, mostly you either get no response or a "this it how it is *WONTFIX*" no matter how kindly or not the original issue is filled. :)
Dec 11 15:40:32 <slonopotamus> argh. n900 wifi is weaker than n800. have to move AP somewhere, n900 loses network in the kitchen :(
Dec 11 15:40:37 <odin_> does ARM have a CPU serial number, like Intel CPUID ?
Dec 11 15:40:37 <nomis> is it possible to configure the "blur radius" of the stuff in the background of the dialogs?
Dec 11 15:40:40 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, which is why people tend to trend towards being unpleasant.
Dec 11 15:40:54 <RST38h> slono: more agressive powersave
Dec 11 15:40:56 <Stskeeps> nomis: yeah, hildon-desktop.ini
Dec 11 15:41:00 <Stskeeps> or something
Dec 11 15:41:00 <odin_> (which was removed due to outrage, OUTRAGE !!!)
Dec 11 15:41:08 <lardman> ~kill all representatives of Global Telecom
Dec 11 15:41:09 * infobot shoots a excited photon gun at all representatives of Global Telecom
Dec 11 15:41:20 <RST38h> General: Well, live people are often unpleasant, there is nothing unusual with that
Dec 11 15:41:42 <_berto_> slonopotamus: in my experience it's the other way around
Dec 11 15:41:46 <RST38h> General: Ability to withstand some flac and a good strategic position helps though
Dec 11 15:41:47 <lardman> ~piss on the graves of all representatives of Global Telecom
Dec 11 15:41:48 * infobot pisses on the graves of all representatives of Global Telecom
Dec 11 15:42:01 <slonopotamus> rst38h, is it configurable?
Dec 11 15:42:04 <RST38h> Nokia does not have that on many of the public bugzilla trackers
Dec 11 15:42:07 <RST38h> slono: Yea
Dec 11 15:42:09 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, unpleasant does not get you any further. I'm not sending the email because you were aggressive, I'm sending it because I think you guys might have a point
Dec 11 15:42:28 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, this is one case out of 500.
Dec 11 15:42:40 * Stskeeps ponders idly if it's time for community code of conduct
Dec 11 15:42:45 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, still, politeness if the way :D
Dec 11 15:42:52 <jrocha> s/if/is
Dec 11 15:42:59 * VDVsx waits for the day that "Fixed in harmattan" massively attacks bmo
Dec 11 15:43:17 <slonopotamus> berto, i have them both on the table near each other, n800 sees wifi (2 bars), n900 doesn't
Dec 11 15:43:27 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: it's going to be a more odd situation than with diablo - as most of the stuff is developed openly now
Dec 11 15:43:34 <Stskeeps> well, a lot of stuff
Dec 11 15:43:45 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: if you'd like to take our some agression, I can suggest that any representative of Global Telecom would gladly welcome being beaten to a pulp
Dec 11 15:43:45 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, my only point is that we don't all have the patience of saints.
Dec 11 15:43:45 <slonopotamus> rst38h, how? :)
Dec 11 15:43:56 <GeneralAntilles> jrocha, both sides tend to reap what they sow.
Dec 11 15:44:00 <_berto_> slonopotamus: strange, my impression was different, but you might be right :)
Dec 11 15:44:09 <VDVsx> Stskeeps, just wait for UI changes/enhancements ;)
Dec 11 15:44:32 <Micha_> temp-ale-x: How far did you get?
Dec 11 15:44:37 <slonopotamus> rst38h, found
Dec 11 15:44:44 <RST38h> slono: yeah :)
Dec 11 15:44:48 <Jagoo> I wonder how long its gonna take until we see proper ports of Quake and Quake2 for the N900 :)
Dec 11 15:44:49 <jrocha> GeneralAntilles, okay, I understand that but you gotta free the hate buffer once in while, to leave space for the new people not to be annoyed on their first contact to the community
Dec 11 15:44:50 <temp-ale-x> Micha_: stuck somewhere at the and
Dec 11 15:45:10 <ale-x> or whatever?
Dec 11 15:45:17 <ale-x> this is not even my password *g*
Dec 11 15:46:33 <andre__> jrocha, yeah, exactly. i've seen people attacking developers in bugzilla and talk after they had started to speak directly with the community. no good
Dec 11 15:46:37 <jrocha> also re-check the language that people use sometimes and forget that some of the people, specially designers (statistically) might be girls, and girls tend to get more annoyed than us when someone says: "hey why the frak is this doing X instead of Y dude!"
Dec 11 15:47:08 <andre__> heh. "WTF?????????????"
Dec 11 15:47:19 <VDVsx> I totally agreed with jrocha on that, I already saw some Nokians and contractors showing up in BMO for the first time and they generally got a really nice welcome there :(
Dec 11 15:47:22 <lardman> I'd be upset as a boy being called a small piece of poo too
Dec 11 15:47:43 <furunk3l> what did i miss?
Dec 11 15:47:54 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: heh, - i'm still astonished by how well vitaly_repin is keeping up on tmo :)
Dec 11 15:48:00 <Jagoo> jrocha: the wonders of OSS development model ;)
Dec 11 15:48:09 <lardman> hmm, wikipedia doesn't seem to agree with my meaning for the word dude
Dec 11 15:48:23 <furunk3l> lardman: change it
Dec 11 15:48:24 * lardman wonders where he heard that then
Dec 11 15:48:26 <AbstractW> then update wikipedia, lardman.
Dec 11 15:48:30 <Gadgetoid_mbp> lardman: dude != poo
Dec 11 15:48:31 <lardman> furunk3l: ah yes :)
Dec 11 15:48:48 <Gadgetoid_mbp> That would be doodie
Dec 11 15:48:51 <VDVsx> Stskeeps, on related news (tmo), seems that our friend Darius is back
Dec 11 15:48:57 <lardman> ah, means fool from German
Dec 11 15:49:01 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: oh dear
Dec 11 15:49:03 <andre__> VDVsx, uh? where?
Dec 11 15:49:06 <slonopotamus_> hmm
Dec 11 15:49:06 <jrocha> Jagoo, yes, but we need to change that if we want to be more successful
Dec 11 15:49:10 <slonopotamus_> with disabled powersave it works
Dec 11 15:49:10 <furunk3l> fool?
Dec 11 15:49:14 <slonopotamus_> need to try with medium
Dec 11 15:49:14 <VDVsx> andre__, talk
Dec 11 15:49:17 <furunk3l> i would translate it more like "alter"
Dec 11 15:49:19 <lardman> http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/dude?view=uk
Dec 11 15:49:26 <lardman> Dude
Dec 11 15:49:27 <GeneralAntilles> Darius for Council chair! Impeach VDVsx!
Dec 11 15:49:35 <lardman> :D
Dec 11 15:49:35 <GeneralAntilles> Misappropriation of funds!
Dec 11 15:49:49 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, + 1
Dec 11 15:49:49 <GeneralAntilles> I hear he used maemo.org money to go to a topless bar in Barcelona!
Dec 11 15:49:52 <andre__> VDVsx, username / link?
Dec 11 15:50:01 <VDVsx> andre__, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=421938&postcount=3
Dec 11 15:50:03 <range> Topless bears?
Dec 11 15:50:14 <andre__> hmm. as long as he does not enter bugzilla... :-P
Dec 11 15:50:29 <jrocha> of course, developers are also very aggressive sometimes, not only unhappy users :)
Dec 11 15:50:30 <odin_> Who was looking into the Maemo "Security API" ?  or specifically a "Secure Storage API" ?  the kind of API to be used for service credentials, maybe long-term cookies
Dec 11 15:50:31 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, Imma PM him a link.
Dec 11 15:50:39 <solpete> could someone check if kongregate games work on n900 .. such as http://www.kongregate.com/games/light_bringer777/learn-to-fly
Dec 11 15:50:46 <jrocha> we should think about this and change
Dec 11 15:50:49 <VDVsx> andre__, there's another thread, where is complains about lack of updates for the 770
Dec 11 15:51:04 * Stskeeps blinks
Dec 11 15:51:05 <VDVsx> s/is/he
Dec 11 15:51:17 <Scummer> woof woof
Dec 11 15:51:20 <slonopotamus_> rst38h, you made me happier :)
Dec 11 15:51:24 <X-Fade> odin_: Maemo 6 platform security?
Dec 11 15:51:28 <ale-x> Micha_: af-sb-init.sh start should be run as root?
Dec 11 15:51:56 <odin_> X-Fade, 5 and yes 6 (i.e. I don't expect things to be perfected in 5 but for input into Meamo6 development)
Dec 11 15:51:57 <andre__> jrocha: yes. a good rant is acceptable if it actually triggers change. yes, we're all a bunch of passionate people, aren't we? :-P
Dec 11 15:52:10 <Scummer> alex : no.. you can login into scratchbox and run the init script from there
Dec 11 15:52:16 <jrocha> andre__, yup!
Dec 11 15:52:17 <lardman> shall I delete that post, seems to be spam
Dec 11 15:52:18 <Micha_> ale-x: To be honest, that was before I figured out that what that does, should really be done by "maemo-sdk start gui"
Dec 11 15:52:43 <Micha_> ale-x: If you do "maemo-sdk --verbose start gui" you (should) see a lot of errors.
Dec 11 15:52:44 <ale-x> well, the maemo-sdk way doesn't give me enough error output
Dec 11 15:52:49 <ale-x> ah ok
Dec 11 15:52:57 <ale-x> you were faster than I *g*
Dec 11 15:53:09 <Scummer> micha : is that for the armel or x86 target ?
Dec 11 15:53:14 <jrocha> andre__, let's be passionate like artists, not passionate like hungry lions going for the tiniest gazelle in the field
Dec 11 15:53:14 <ale-x> than I could think, I meant
Dec 11 15:53:20 <ale-x> x86
Dec 11 15:53:24 <Scummer> ah
Dec 11 15:53:24 <Micha_> Scummer: We're stuck trying to get the i386 target working
Dec 11 15:53:31 <andre__> jrocha, hell yeah.
Dec 11 15:53:52 <Scummer> i've spent all day yesterday to get the armel target up only to read that it actually just simply doesn't work d'oh
Dec 11 15:54:09 <solpete> does java games such as http://www.kongregate.com/games/light_bringer777/learn-to-fly work?
Dec 11 15:54:29 <Micha_> Scummer: It works just fine for compiling, just not for running stuff
Dec 11 15:54:38 <odin_> solpete, I don't think there is any Java support yet, ths is something I would very much look into (in new year)
Dec 11 15:54:51 <Scummer> micha: correct.. i was able to compile modest trunk only to find out i couldn't test it in scratchbox :/
Dec 11 15:55:33 <Micha_> Scummer: Yeah, and I like to test stuff first before I try it on the device..  the sb2 stuff seems to be very fragile at present.
Dec 11 15:55:41 <ale-x> Micha_: I get stuck at Error setting value: Configuration server couldn't be contacted: D-BUS error: Can't overwrite existing read-only value
Dec 11 15:56:00 <Scummer> micha: ACK
Dec 11 15:56:18 <ale-x> then maemo-invoker complains about not getting the correct parameters (or none it seems)
Dec 11 15:56:19 <Micha_> ale-x: I get similar.
Dec 11 15:56:38 <ale-x> then trackerd doesn't finds its libs (which is odd, because they are there)
Dec 11 15:56:57 <ale-x> and that's it
Dec 11 15:57:16 <ale-x> apart from a few gstreamer related problems
Dec 11 15:57:22 <ale-x> maybe dbus or whatever
Dec 11 15:57:30 <ale-x> Micha_: do you get the same results in X86 and AMD64?
Dec 11 15:57:59 <Micha_> ale-x: Would have to double-check now (and right now I can't due to being at work).
Dec 11 15:58:12 <lbt_> lcuk: yes, I got the revised stuff through. We're officially allowed to be "derogatory and disparaging" towards Nokia *and* their employees .... hear that timeless_mbp you worthless yankee nokian? <grin>
Dec 11 15:59:14 <lcuk> as long as you are happy david, thats the most important thing.
Dec 11 15:59:20 <ale-x> Micha_: but you couldn't get it to run in X86 either?
Dec 11 15:59:32 <lcuk> and i think timeless rocks! so dont call him again
Dec 11 15:59:40 <lbt_> we can't defame them though ....
Dec 11 16:00:09 <Micha_> ale-x: Nope. My amd64 box is Ubuntu 9.10, my x86 box is Debian sid
Dec 11 16:00:10 <lardman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee lol
Dec 11 16:00:14 <lardman> esp this bit:
Dec 11 16:00:16 <lcuk> of course, thats been the same for every self respecting member of this community fora long time anyway
Dec 11 16:00:20 * lbt_ has rules - you can insult anyone on irc that you've had dinner with ;)
Dec 11 16:00:21 <lardman> A humorous aphorism attributed to E.B. White summarizes these distinctions:
Dec 11 16:00:21 <lardman> To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
Dec 11 16:00:21 <lardman> To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
Dec 11 16:00:21 <lardman> To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.
Dec 11 16:00:21 <lardman> To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
Dec 11 16:00:21 <lardman> To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
Dec 11 16:00:23 <lardman> And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.
Dec 11 16:00:39 <Micha_> ale-x: When I get time, I was going to set up a virtual Debian lenny box and try it on there.
Dec 11 16:00:46 <lcuk> lbt, ive never eaten dinner with you!
Dec 11 16:00:51 <pupnik_> I just heard a lecture including a history of the yankees, and that is not far off.
Dec 11 16:01:01 <ale-x> Micha_: my first try was in a ia32 chroot
Dec 11 16:01:02 <lcuk> but ive slept in the same room as you and thats close enough
Dec 11 16:01:11 <VDVsx> lbt_, I did, so I can insult you now ? :P
Dec 11 16:01:23 <lbt_> VDVsx: of course
Dec 11 16:01:26 <VDVsx> lol
Dec 11 16:01:37 <ale-x> Micha_: could not even get diablo to display in Xephyr there
Dec 11 16:01:46 <Micha_> ale-x: I never tried that. Read something that the sb2 based environment now supports amd64 so I've just been bashing my head against walls trying to get that going.
Dec 11 16:02:03 <VDVsx> never had dinner with timeless_mbp , but he was my summit roomate, dunno if that counts :p
Dec 11 16:02:08 <lbt_> lcuk: nah I'm always polite to people I sleep with ;)
Dec 11 16:02:09 <Scummer> lard: lol
Dec 11 16:02:32 <ale-x> Micha_: actually I can run the diablo rootstrap in my system without problems, so I'd say yes, sb2 supports amd64
Dec 11 16:03:10 <lbt_> lcuk: seriously though - all the contentious legal clauses are out
Dec 11 16:03:30 <lcuk> i know, ill talk to you properly after work :) thanks for pushing
Dec 11 16:03:39 <SpeedEvil> lbt: no requirement for indemnity forex/
Dec 11 16:03:39 <lcuk> compromise :)
Dec 11 16:03:46 <lbt_> the licensing still needs work but I'm happy that the community and W+K have a basis for communication now
Dec 11 16:04:00 <Micha_> ale-x: Heh. Haven't tried the diablo one. Just been trying the fremantle rootstraps.
Dec 11 16:04:00 <lbt_> SpeedEvil: correct
Dec 11 16:04:03 <SpeedEvil> :)
Dec 11 16:04:19 <VDVsx> lbt_, many thanks for the effort :9
Dec 11 16:04:32 <lbt_> nb... legal docs are like code problems
Dec 11 16:04:39 <VDVsx> lol
Dec 11 16:04:49 * VDVsx prefer code problems
Dec 11 16:05:43 <ale-x> Micha_: I think I'll give up for now and wait for SDK+ and freemantle to mature a bit
Dec 11 16:06:06 <awben> back
Dec 11 16:06:18 <Scummer> alex: agreed
Dec 11 16:06:23 <andre__> ale-x, fremantle. one e. :-P
Dec 11 16:06:29 <Micha_> ale-x: That's pretty much where I'm at too :(   But people must have it working..
Dec 11 16:07:01 <Scummer> micha: or you just test on the device :)
Dec 11 16:07:21 <Scummer> that's what the ssh server is for :)
Dec 11 16:07:52 <ale-x> I guess those who are emulating successfully use SDK and old scratchbox
Dec 11 16:08:38 <ale-x> Scummer: no need ssh if there is no N900 to ssh to ;-)
Dec 11 16:08:48 <Scummer> alex: oh.. sorry :)
Dec 11 16:09:10 <Scummer> i forgot.. there are still a lot of people waiting
Dec 11 16:09:18 <Micha_> Scummer: True.. But a bit scary..
Dec 11 16:09:57 <ale-x> I won't get one in the near future either ;-)
Dec 11 16:09:58 <Scummer> currently i shouldn't really test on the phone as the office internet is down and i'm connected through my n900 ;)
Dec 11 16:10:33 <Scummer> that could potentially leave me dead in the water
Dec 11 16:11:01 <ale-x> Scummer: is it easy to completely brick the N900?
Dec 11 16:11:12 <andre__> ale-x, no.
Dec 11 16:11:28 <Scummer> alex: i haven't tried it yet :)
Dec 11 16:11:47 <odin_> ale-x, there are known causes, like filling rootfs and rebooting
Dec 11 16:11:51 <Scummer> but i also don't have a flash image with me
Dec 11 16:12:03 <Stskeeps> odin_: which isn't "bricking" as such. brick = not even possible to flash
Dec 11 16:12:29 <ale-x> Stskeeps, that's what I meant
Dec 11 16:12:43 <Scummer> i guess it is advisable as a n900 to carry your laptop with a backup image with you at any times? :)
Dec 11 16:12:51 <Scummer> n900 owner even
Dec 11 16:12:59 <lardman> no
Dec 11 16:13:04 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, camkeyd is so awesome.
Dec 11 16:13:35 <odin_> Scummer,  not really advise just paranoia
Dec 11 16:13:49 <Scummer> paranoia is good
Dec 11 16:14:00 <Scummer> keeps you on the edge
Dec 11 16:14:01 <odin_> Scummer, are you looking at me ?  stop looking at me !
Dec 11 16:14:09 <ale-x> ;-)
Dec 11 16:15:18 <lardman> I've yet to make a device unusable in normal day to day use
Dec 11 16:15:27 <lardman> and I've had a few
Dec 11 16:15:35 <lardman> from 770 onwards
Dec 11 16:15:52 <lardman> so I really wouldn't worry
Dec 11 16:16:01 <odin_> had a few?   attempts?  days?  devices?  beers?
Dec 11 16:16:09 <lardman> all the above
Dec 11 16:16:13 <ShadowJK> wow, bounce is (somewhat) optified
Dec 11 16:16:31 <odin_> I think it would possible to fix the non-booting when full issue
Dec 11 16:16:40 <hrw> bye all
Dec 11 16:16:53 <lardman> cu hrw|gone
Dec 11 16:17:12 <Scummer> odin : hmm.. like a daemon running?  if rootfs > 95% then rm -rf /
Dec 11 16:17:12 <Gadgetoid_mbp> odin_: delete stuff at random
Dec 11 16:17:16 <odin_> maybe even provide single-user mode (to boot)
Dec 11 16:17:23 <Gadgetoid_mbp> Bah Scummer beat me too it
Dec 11 16:17:23 <ale-x> odin_: what exactly is the problem? device doesn't boot if there is no space left?
Dec 11 16:17:23 <Scummer> gadget *5*
Dec 11 16:17:58 <odin_> thats the common (presumed) cause I've head, no-space-on-root-mean-no-life-after-boot haha
Dec 11 16:17:59 <lardman> hmm, I really would rather like a beer
Dec 11 16:18:01 <Gadgetoid_mbp> Fscking right up when the root fs runs out of space is a Maemo feature
Dec 11 16:18:13 <Scummer> :)
Dec 11 16:18:25 <Gadgetoid_mbp> One that N8x0 owners thoroughly enjoyed
Dec 11 16:18:31 <ale-x> odin_: what filesystem does the roo partition use?
Dec 11 16:18:38 <Scummer> maybe have a way to start another image from the SD card to mount the rootfs and clean up some stuff ?
Dec 11 16:18:46 <odin_> the fix is to make the important stuff work even with no space (ubifs is expandable anyway, so its possible to reserve)
Dec 11 16:18:51 <Gadgetoid_mbp> Although when I filled my N810 I didn't even need to reboot it before it fscked right up
Dec 11 16:18:53 <odin_> ale-x, UBIFS for rootfs
Dec 11 16:19:26 <Gadgetoid_mbp> Ran out of cache for apt, so there's no room to uninstall apps... what a paradox
Dec 11 16:19:35 <AbstractW> grr.
Dec 11 16:19:46 <AbstractW> The N900 was in stock this morning, and now its out of stock on Nokia's site.
Dec 11 16:20:01 <Gadgetoid_mbp> I'll sell you mine for ÂŁ700 AbstractW
Dec 11 16:20:06 <Scummer> abstract : still trying to score one?
Dec 11 16:20:10 <AbstractW> Yes.
Dec 11 16:20:23 <lcuk> Gadgetoid_mbp,  how much as in AbstractW worth?
Dec 11 16:20:25 <Scummer> abstract 0: nokia store 1
Dec 11 16:20:33 <odin_> what about if during bootup and root mount it sees less than 32Kb (or whatever min-limit) free space, it offers single-user-mode and a terminal ?  which runs X11 and terminal using a ram-drive for storage if needed
Dec 11 16:20:34 <Scummer> ;)
Dec 11 16:20:34 <AbstractW> Ideally, if I could get in on that $450 dell deal, I'd jump.
Dec 11 16:20:50 <odin_> doesn't FuSE work, I see there module is there... ramdrive over the top of rootfs
Dec 11 16:20:52 <Gadgetoid_mbp> lcuk: precisely 1.5 GBP
Dec 11 16:20:58 <ale-x> odin_: and how are you filling the root fs to make it full? installing software?
Dec 11 16:21:04 <lcuk> nice
Dec 11 16:21:45 <odin_> ale-x, yes that is one way, I move my /var/lib/dpkg tho, since the installed software package-db uses 5 to 10% of rootfs storage
Dec 11 16:22:30 <ale-x> odin_: yes, that's a problem with dpkg, it was not really designed for embedded systems as far as I know
Dec 11 16:22:34 <odin_> ale-x, i.e. what I'm saying is the package-db as-is is not scalable, since lets presume number of repos/apps doubles, thats 10 to 15% of rootfs for it
Dec 11 16:22:49 <Scummer>  /var is not an extra fs ?
Dec 11 16:22:58 <lardman> mmm, beer
Dec 11 16:23:00 <odin_> Scummer, no, only /home
Dec 11 16:23:02 <Gadgetoid_mbp> Pandora XML for all!
Dec 11 16:23:14 <Scummer> odin : hmm.. ok.. that's no good
Dec 11 16:23:22 <ale-x> odin_: I'm asking, because I know that some fs provide reserveable space for root-user
Dec 11 16:23:33 <ale-x> ubifs as well, afaik
Dec 11 16:23:45 <odin_> ale-x, the problem is its a single-user devices, so there is "User" and "root" most things assume root, which is ok really
Dec 11 16:23:50 <yabo> Isn't it possible to change /etc/fstab to have a new FS layout ?
Dec 11 16:23:51 <Gadgetoid_mbp> Did you just copy /var/lib/dpkg to user space and symlink it?
Dec 11 16:24:14 <odin_> I wrote a script
Dec 11 16:24:50 <ale-x> odin_: the solution that instantly came to my mind: don't allow apt to install if there is not enough space and reserve some for root
Dec 11 16:24:53 <Scummer> hmm.. since there is 32G's.. make the rootfs 2G's ?
Dec 11 16:25:18 <ale-x> odin_: but I don't know enough about the N900, given the fact that I don't even own one *g*
Dec 11 16:25:18 <odin_> ale-x, yes sure there are issue with apt getting the amount of free diskspace on UBIFS, since its a compressed filesystem
Dec 11 16:25:22 <Scummer> instead of the meager 230M's as the df shows ?
Dec 11 16:26:09 <X-Fade> Scummer: the emmc is way, way slower.
Dec 11 16:26:10 <siriusnova> hello
Dec 11 16:26:12 <siriusnova> im new
Dec 11 16:26:13 <siriusnova> :>
Dec 11 16:26:21 <siriusnova> i just bought a brand new Nokia N900
Dec 11 16:26:32 <X-Fade> siriusnova: welcome ;)
Dec 11 16:26:33 <Scummer> xfade: oh.. ok
Dec 11 16:26:45 <siriusnova> so what can i do with this fancy gadget
Dec 11 16:26:47 <lopz> hi :!
Dec 11 16:26:49 <odin_> ale-x, making the device boot with a full rootfs is like really useful feature, worth persuing
Dec 11 16:26:57 <X-Fade> Scummer: There is a reason why root is on that 256 MB part ;)
Dec 11 16:27:20 <yabo> X-Fade, though the /opt is on the emmc isn't it ?
Dec 11 16:27:25 <lardman> siriusnova: have a look in the application manager to see what you can install, and look at TMO for some other ideas
Dec 11 16:27:26 <Scummer> xfade: so the 256M is some fast flash or battery backed RAM ?
Dec 11 16:27:26 <ale-x> siriusnova: donate it? to me?
Dec 11 16:27:27 <lardman> ~tmo
Dec 11 16:27:35 <Scummer> bah
Dec 11 16:27:36 <siriusnova> lol
Dec 11 16:27:39 <Scummer> battery backed ram makes no sense
Dec 11 16:27:42 <lardman> come on infobot
Dec 11 16:27:43 <Scummer> so fast fash
Dec 11 16:27:43 <siriusnova> ale-x: pif 700 USD
Dec 11 16:27:45 <Scummer> flash
Dec 11 16:27:54 <X-Fade> Scummer: onenand flash
Dec 11 16:27:56 <microlith> Scummer: it's a samsung OneNAND chip
Dec 11 16:28:06 <ale-x> yeah, as if I had USD at hand
Dec 11 16:28:10 <odin_> does it operate are CPU memory  bus speed?
Dec 11 16:28:11 <siriusnova> lardman: what is TMO
Dec 11 16:28:15 <AbstractW> Interesting.
Dec 11 16:28:16 <AbstractW> http://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B002OB49SW
Dec 11 16:28:26 <siriusnova> is there a good irc client for the maemo 5?
Dec 11 16:28:33 <odin_> siriusnova, X-Chat does the trick for me
Dec 11 16:28:34 <Scummer> sirius: xchat
Dec 11 16:28:36 <yabo> siriusnova,  irssi :)
Dec 11 16:28:39 <AbstractW> define good :P
Dec 11 16:28:47 <siriusnova> xchat isnt available in the extras repository
Dec 11 16:28:53 <siriusnova> irssi is in extras-devel i think
Dec 11 16:28:53 <lardman> siriusnova: talk.maemo.org
Dec 11 16:28:55 <Scummer> ssh into home box with screeen and ircII is better tho :)
Dec 11 16:28:55 <siriusnova> or extras-testing
Dec 11 16:29:02 <yabo> siriusnova, non extras-testing
Dec 11 16:29:10 <AbstractW> script: No, bitchx beats ircII
Dec 11 16:29:11 <yabo> siriusnova, I have it without using extras-devel
Dec 11 16:29:16 <rabbitear> I just noticed that the n900 is missing a 'wall projection screen'
Dec 11 16:29:19 <siriusnova> oh
Dec 11 16:29:25 <siriusnova> yaho - weird i dont
Dec 11 16:29:27 <siriusnova> lemme check
Dec 11 16:29:30 <siriusnova> i dont see xchat
Dec 11 16:29:48 <Scummer> ircII is the grand daddy of irc clients :)
Dec 11 16:29:48 <ale-x> siriusnova: I guess pidgin would be an alternative too, supports IRC
Dec 11 16:29:56 <ShadowJK> extras-devel, crashes if you try save settings
Dec 11 16:30:05 <lopz> hello, anyone has the motion application running on a n800?
Dec 11 16:30:06 <rabbitear> telnet is the grand daddy of irc clients :)
Dec 11 16:30:25 <Scummer> rabbit: ok, you win :)
Dec 11 16:30:31 <rabbitear> hehe
Dec 11 16:30:35 <X-Fade> irssi is in extras-testing
Dec 11 16:30:36 <pupnik> rabbitear: 'talk' maybe
Dec 11 16:30:45 <pupnik> hey, who wants a port of 'hunt'
Dec 11 16:30:46 <lopz> I have installed but when starting gives me some errors concerning v4l2, I step log of what I get on screen
Dec 11 16:30:54 <rabbitear> talk does host to host I believe...
Dec 11 16:30:59 <lopz> http://dpaste.com/132055/
Dec 11 16:30:59 <siriusnova> what other apps do you guys reccomend
Dec 11 16:31:00 <pupnik> yeah
Dec 11 16:31:03 <siriusnova> for my new Nokia N900
Dec 11 16:31:09 <siriusnova> aside from openssh :P
Dec 11 16:31:14 <Scummer> sirius: drnoksnes
Dec 11 16:31:22 <siriusnova> which repo is it in?
Dec 11 16:31:23 <Scummer> with wiicontrol
Dec 11 16:31:39 <Scummer> and a projector for tv out :)
Dec 11 16:31:46 <siriusnova> lol
Dec 11 16:31:49 <siriusnova> i have all 3
Dec 11 16:31:54 <GeneralAntilles> Later folks.
Dec 11 16:31:54 <pupnik> maybe gpe file manager, gpe calendar, packagerate, maemo music player daemon, xchat, gpodder
Dec 11 16:31:57 <Scummer> office life becomes so much better with those 3 things :)
Dec 11 16:32:00 <lardman> cu GeneralAntilles
Dec 11 16:32:01 <GeneralAntilles> Winter break!
Dec 11 16:32:03 <pupnik> cu GeneralAntilles
Dec 11 16:32:15 <GeneralAntilles> uc lardman usuk
Dec 11 16:32:17 <GeneralAntilles> later
Dec 11 16:32:39 <rabbitear> have not seen talk in a loooong time, or am I thinking of hmm, oh well
Dec 11 16:33:03 <pupnik> hunt was the first unix multiplayer fragfest
Dec 11 16:33:08 <siriusnova> where is xchat
Dec 11 16:33:13 <siriusnova> its not in extras-testing either
Dec 11 16:33:13 <Scummer> insteaf of talk, just use write :)
Dec 11 16:33:15 <siriusnova> :/
Dec 11 16:33:19 <rabbitear> yeah, brain gets to rest :) (winter break)
Dec 11 16:33:27 <Scummer> sirius : try extras-devel
Dec 11 16:33:32 <rabbitear> thats what I was thinking of write
Dec 11 16:33:33 <siriusnova> isnt that buggy sw
Dec 11 16:33:36 <siriusnova> Scummer
Dec 11 16:33:37 <pupnik> http://man-wiki.net/index.php/6:hunt
Dec 11 16:33:45 <Scummer> sirius: so what ? :)
Dec 11 16:34:02 <yabo> Beware extras-devel eats your children, kills your kitten and blows up your house.
Dec 11 16:34:03 <yabo> :)
Dec 11 16:34:42 <Scummer> the bleeding edge requires a sense of adventure.. even if that means spending another 600$ on a new phone :)
Dec 11 16:34:48 <siriusnova> lol
Dec 11 16:34:50 <siriusnova> id rather not
Dec 11 16:34:53 <rabbitear> talk was like an ncurses or whatever thing like bbs chat
Dec 11 16:35:08 <Scummer> rabbit: yeah.. talk had like a dual screen
Dec 11 16:35:27 <siriusnova> but in case how do I reflash my N900 anyhoo
Dec 11 16:35:30 <siriusnova> is it possible yet?
Dec 11 16:35:32 <siriusnova> since its brand new
Dec 11 16:35:40 <Scummer> but write you could run from the command line.. especially useful when you are in the middle of typing a long command and a write comes in :)
Dec 11 16:36:07 <rabbitear> yep :)
Dec 11 16:36:11 <Scummer> sirius: wiki.maemo.org is your friend
Dec 11 16:36:16 <siriusnova> yes found it
Dec 11 16:36:18 <siriusnova> thx
Dec 11 16:36:37 <rabbitear> good for messing with people at work.. (write)
Dec 11 16:36:42 <Scummer> yep
Dec 11 16:37:00 <Scummer> like : the system is going down.. logoff now!! and bamm.. you could 100% the CPU to yourself
Dec 11 16:37:04 <rabbitear> I miss my job (long time ago) :)
Dec 11 16:37:06 <Scummer> hehe
Dec 11 16:37:35 <rabbitear> lol
Dec 11 16:37:35 <Scummer> but that's wall was for
Dec 11 16:38:42 <rabbitear> 'wall'?
Dec 11 16:38:49 <Scummer> wall = write all
Dec 11 16:38:57 <rabbitear> oh ya....
Dec 11 16:39:10 <rabbitear> your bringing back memories to me Scummer
Dec 11 16:39:14 <Scummer> :)
Dec 11 16:39:29 <rabbitear> these was slackware servers ...
Dec 11 16:39:34 <rabbitear> had all that stuff..
Dec 11 16:39:44 <Scummer> i ahven't been a unix admin for a while myself.. but the useful commands i still somewhat remember :)
Dec 11 16:40:55 <rabbitear> we and them, well, in the room, was answering the phones, using the slackware servers... in the 97++... isp's where young back then
Dec 11 16:41:09 <Scummer> yep
Dec 11 16:41:11 <rabbitear> today thats all different.. *shrugs*
Dec 11 16:41:48 <Scummer> it was a lucky shot if you got DSL in 97 unless you lived downtown in a city
Dec 11 16:41:56 <yabo> are there other usable distros for the n900 ?
Dec 11 16:41:56 <rabbitear> back in school, and I shoulda done like art or something, its all windows Crap!
Dec 11 16:42:31 <Scummer> yabo : i think Mer might work with some fiddling... but i think you'll loose the phone features
Dec 11 16:42:35 <rabbitear> Scummer: I had the first (one of, was a beta tester) cable modems in town..
Dec 11 16:42:48 <yabo> Scummer, ok
Dec 11 16:43:08 <rabbitear> 25kbits I think is that right
Dec 11 16:43:12 <Scummer> rabbit: i always had DSL until a few month ago.. swtiched to commicast
Dec 11 16:43:37 <rabbitear> Scummer: that was in fairbanks, alaska actually....
Dec 11 16:44:00 <rabbitear> Scummer: I'm in anchorage, ak now (from boston tho), you guys have the better deals :)
Dec 11 16:44:02 <Scummer> rabbit: brrr.. those bits were crawling in the cold.. no wonder it was 25kbit :)
Dec 11 16:44:18 <rabbitear> faster then 3-5kbits
Dec 11 16:44:28 <rabbitear> :)
Dec 11 16:44:30 <Scummer> even tho.. a modem could have given you 33k back in 97 :)
Dec 11 16:44:35 <Scummer> or was it 56k already ?
Dec 11 16:44:42 <rabbitear> okay then I mean 250kbits
Dec 11 16:44:56 <Scummer> 250kbit.. yeah.. a tad faster than ISDN.. sounds right
Dec 11 16:45:00 <rabbitear> I'm so bad at converting that..
Dec 11 16:45:23 <ShadowJK> 230 is like edge..
Dec 11 16:45:26 <Scummer> ISDN was nice.. i had that in germany
Dec 11 16:45:52 <Scummer> with channel bundling 128k when everyone else was still 33k dial up
Dec 11 16:46:25 <Scummer> and the linux support for ISDN was pretty good 15 years ago
Dec 11 16:46:42 <ShadowJK> isdn and dialup sucked in thr sense that it was charged per minute
Dec 11 16:46:51 <Scummer> shadow: not in germany
Dec 11 16:47:05 * ShadowJK switched to gprs as soon as he had phone with serial port and gprs coverage
Dec 11 16:47:17 <Scummer> shadow: after a while they had a flat rate.. just the dial-in was 10 cents and then no more charges
Dec 11 16:47:27 <ShadowJK> isdn would've been about 3 euro per hour here :)
Dec 11 16:47:46 <Scummer> if you were in a range of 5 miles to the CO
Dec 11 16:47:57 <Scummer> which I was :)
Dec 11 16:48:24 <rabbitear> a little waay back you could still bluebox in germany too
Dec 11 16:48:38 <Scummer> rabbit: i've tried.. but was never successful with it
Dec 11 16:48:43 <rabbitear> like up until the mid early 90's
Dec 11 16:48:54 <Scummer> rabbit: i really could have made good use of it as my girlfriend lived in the US
Dec 11 16:49:04 <rabbitear> Scummer: I got calls into my bbs before way back from the boxers
Dec 11 16:49:09 <Scummer> my phone bills were outrages
Dec 11 16:49:15 <Scummer> outrageous
Dec 11 16:49:21 <rabbitear> ya...
Dec 11 16:49:33 <Scummer> overseas calls are now damn cheap
Dec 11 16:49:34 <rabbitear> the box sounds very weird on the phone
Dec 11 16:49:47 <rabbitear> thats incoming box calls
Dec 11 16:50:03 <Scummer> rabbit: even a normal call sounds different now than a decade ago
Dec 11 16:50:09 <rabbitear> and takes a long time to connect too... Scummer
Dec 11 16:50:18 <SinofEnvy> just received my N900 :> any ideas on how to transfer my contacts from my iphone to my n900? lol
Dec 11 16:50:19 <Scummer> now it seems they are right in the next town
Dec 11 16:50:32 <Scummer> envy: take out the SIM? hehehehe
Dec 11 16:50:48 <SinofEnvy> contacts aren't on the SIM unfortunately
Dec 11 16:50:50 <SinofEnvy> but on internal mem :(
Dec 11 16:51:08 <ale-x> SinOfEnvy: SyncML?
Dec 11 16:51:10 <Scummer> the iphone actually does have a sIM?
Dec 11 16:51:10 <juhar> SinofEnvy, do you have mac?
Dec 11 16:51:17 <valdyn> SinofEnvy: nuevasync.com
Dec 11 16:51:19 <SinofEnvy> juhar, no
Dec 11 16:51:23 <yabo> ale-x, SyncML on n900 ?
Dec 11 16:51:25 <luke-jr> SinofEnvy: by hand
Dec 11 16:51:27 <ale-x> no there?
Dec 11 16:51:35 <SinofEnvy> luke-jr, lolz... I'd rather not, but if there's no other way xP
Dec 11 16:51:38 <yabo> ale-x, no
Dec 11 16:51:41 <SinofEnvy> nuevasync, I'll have a look. thanks valdyn
Dec 11 16:52:00 <AbstractW> SinofEnvy: Use outlook
Dec 11 16:52:08 <SinofEnvy> oh that's actually a good idea.
Dec 11 16:53:08 <rabbitear> the damn console here takes my keyboard away from me from time to time... don't know what that is yet
Dec 11 16:53:11 <rabbitear> sucks.
Dec 11 16:53:27 <Scummer> ?
Dec 11 16:53:30 <ale-x> yabo: but there is syncevolution, right?
Dec 11 16:53:50 <rabbitear> I can't type in the console sometimes -- every once in a while, its just archlinux
Dec 11 16:53:58 <Scummer> odd
Dec 11 16:54:01 <rabbitear> no idea - no biggie
Dec 11 16:54:24 <yabo> ale-x, don't know
Dec 11 16:55:09 <rabbitear> fvwm runs pretty strong (always use that for years cuz it works) but I think it might be this gnome notification thing...
Dec 11 16:55:15 <rabbitear> oh well.
Dec 11 16:55:26 <yabo> ale-x, apt-cache search says no
Dec 11 16:56:04 <ale-x> yabo: hmm, I was just thinking, that because it's available in Debian, it's there for maemo as well
Dec 11 16:56:31 <ale-x> yabo: should not be too hard (at least for the command-line app) to port it to n900
Dec 11 16:56:52 <ale-x> latest syncevolution release does even have a gtk ui I was told
Dec 11 16:57:16 <paravoid> hi
Dec 11 16:57:17 <yabo> ale-x, yep, but it would be better if SyncML was flawlessly integrated in the phone
Dec 11 16:57:22 <yabo> seems a pretty basic need...
Dec 11 16:57:28 <paravoid> I'm trying to create my own layout (for Greek)
Dec 11 16:57:42 <paravoid> for the hardware keyboard of my N900
Dec 11 16:58:02 <paravoid> problem is, I need to have level 5-8 and use Ctrl+Space for change
Dec 11 16:58:20 <ale-x> yabo: you are right. if I was able to run my SDK here I'd start to try to port to
Dec 11 16:58:40 <paravoid> now, I see that with Russian Ctrl+Space changes language and the message "Keyboard layout switched" is displayed, while e.g. with English, Ctrl+Space results in "Input language switched"
Dec 11 16:58:48 <paravoid> the latter changing only the virtual keyboard's layout
Dec 11 16:58:57 <paravoid> any idea why there's that difference and how can I override it?
Dec 11 17:00:08 <AbstractW> I just want a dvorak keyboard on my N900
Dec 11 17:00:25 <SpeedEvil> Is htere a nice way to have a refreshed picture URL on my desktop?
Dec 11 17:01:00 <SpeedEvil> I want http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Glenrothes/meteogram.png - forex - updated every 3 hoursish
Dec 11 17:04:13 <yabo> SpeedEvil, isn't there a command line tool to change the background ?
Dec 11 17:04:38 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Dec 11 17:04:50 <yabo> that could be called by a crontab event :p
Dec 11 17:04:59 <SpeedEvil> yeah.
Dec 11 17:05:14 <SpeedEvil> I've been trying to avoid doing stuff my normal way for some reason.
Dec 11 17:05:20 <SpeedEvil> Which would probably involve awk.
Dec 11 17:10:33 <ShadowJK> hm, i cant paste multiple lines from browser to xchat on n900
Dec 11 17:14:13 <AbstractW> sniff the clipboard, see if its chopping your CR/LFs
Dec 11 17:14:30 <AbstractW> Or, xchat is stripping those.
Dec 11 17:16:03 <ShadowJK> browser -> notes is fine
Dec 11 17:16:36 <siriusnova> ok so
Dec 11 17:16:45 <siriusnova> im about to enable extra-devel
Dec 11 17:16:48 * siriusnova crosses his fingers
Dec 11 17:16:55 <johnq> Hi! Is it possbile to automatically execute "ifup usb0" on the N900 once the "PC Suite mode" is selected after connecting the usb cable?
Dec 11 17:16:57 <woglinde> lol
Dec 11 17:17:08 <woglinde> johnq hm
Dec 11 17:17:19 <woglinde> johnq you could try to run ifpludg
Dec 11 17:17:27 <woglinde> args ifplugd
Dec 11 17:17:35 <woglinde> dont if it is packages yet
Dec 11 17:17:51 <woglinde> but debian package should work out of the box
Dec 11 17:18:01 <user_> hi, anyone with an N900 here right now?  could you tell methe  browser's useragent? (or alternatively just click http://whatsmyuseragent.com/)
Dec 11 17:18:22 <Xisdibik> siriusnova: good luck
Dec 11 17:18:30 <siriusnova> lol
Dec 11 17:18:32 <siriusnova> what does that mean
Dec 11 17:18:35 <siriusnova> :P
Dec 11 17:18:37 <siriusnova> should i not do this
Dec 11 17:18:50 <siriusnova> i really dont want to brick my N900
Dec 11 17:18:50 <Xisdibik> it means, you might need to reflash your phone if you do something wrong ;)
Dec 11 17:18:51 <siriusnova> :<
Dec 11 17:19:14 <Xisdibik> now having said this
Dec 11 17:19:16 <user_> if you're in doubt, that probably means you shouldn't be doing that :P
Dec 11 17:19:18 <Xisdibik> i have extras-devel enabled
Dec 11 17:19:23 <mgedmin> which is technically abusing the term "brick"
Dec 11 17:19:38 <jkimball4> not term abuse again
Dec 11 17:19:50 <johnq> woglinde: I assume that this is a very common problem, I don't want to fire up a terminal on the device when connecting it via usb. So if there is no general solution I'll search for one and update the wiki.
Dec 11 17:20:04 <user_> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv7l; fi-FI; rv:1.9.2a1pre) Gecko/20090928 Firefox/3.5 Maemo Browser 1.4.1.21 RX-51 N900
Dec 11 17:20:11 <user_> thanks, whoever clicked that!
Dec 11 17:20:24 <siriusnova> lol i see dosbox in extras-devel
Dec 11 17:20:27 <siriusnova> how does it run?
Dec 11 17:20:30 <siriusnova> on a 600MHZ Arm
Dec 11 17:20:35 <paroneayea> I keep trying to add extras-testing to my device
Dec 11 17:20:39 <Xisdibik> it has some issues at the moment
Dec 11 17:20:43 <paroneayea> and I keep getting "failed to refresh"
Dec 11 17:20:43 <Xisdibik> not related to performance
Dec 11 17:20:46 <odin_> Ive lost a lot of my home screen stuff (I rebooted earliar and only just noticed its not come back)
Dec 11 17:21:06 <odin_> stuff like facebook widget, wireless lan IP, GPRS tx/rx counters, "messages" window
Dec 11 17:21:34 <woglinde> johnq running ifplugd is a common solution
Dec 11 17:21:35 <SinofEnvy> quick question.. I updated my .sounds directory but my N900 isnt recognizing any music files, so I googled and came across "Run tracker-processes -r as user in an xterm."
Dec 11 17:21:50 <SinofEnvy> I tried this, but it says permission denied..
Dec 11 17:21:50 <johnq> woglinde: ok, thanks
Dec 11 17:21:50 <Xisdibik> SinofEnvy: are you still connected to the PC
Dec 11 17:21:51 <Xisdibik> with the USB
Dec 11 17:22:14 <SinofEnvy> :x
Dec 11 17:22:18 <SinofEnvy> yes
Dec 11 17:22:20 <Xisdibik> unplug
Dec 11 17:22:21 <Xisdibik> :P
Dec 11 17:22:26 <Xisdibik> then it should update
Dec 11 17:22:30 <pupnik> looks like i fixed my performance issues with tracker :)
Dec 11 17:22:32 <Xisdibik> (give it a minute or so after u open the media player
Dec 11 17:22:33 <woglinde> johnq hm when remeber correctly ifupdown has a auto mechanismus too, but ifplugd works better for me
Dec 11 17:22:34 * pupnik dances
Dec 11 17:22:47 <SinofEnvy> says the same thing, Xisdibik
Dec 11 17:22:55 <Xisdibik> dont try the command
Dec 11 17:22:57 <Xisdibik> just open media player
Dec 11 17:22:59 <SinofEnvy> should I just run as root?
Dec 11 17:23:02 <SinofEnvy> hmm ok
Dec 11 17:23:08 <Xisdibik> after u unplugged tho
Dec 11 17:23:09 <Xisdibik> :)
Dec 11 17:23:13 <odin_> its letting me re-add them...  but application makes "widgets" work on home screen?
Dec 11 17:23:16 <SinofEnvy> ah
Dec 11 17:23:18 <SinofEnvy> yeah cheers mate
Dec 11 17:23:19 <SinofEnvy> :>
Dec 11 17:23:33 <Xisdibik> if your in mass storage mode or PC Suite mode with the USB cable
Dec 11 17:23:41 <johnq> woglinde: I do not completely understand the mechanism behind this dialog window: the usb0 device is available before selecting "PC Suite" on the device, right?
Dec 11 17:23:41 <Xisdibik> it unmounts the drive and mounts it in the desktop
Dec 11 17:23:59 <woglinde> johnq no
Dec 11 17:24:21 <johnq> woglinde: ah ok, so I got that wrong
Dec 11 17:24:21 <woglinde> ifplugd runs on known or not yet know devices
Dec 11 17:24:31 <woglinde> usb can eithet net or console
Dec 11 17:24:50 <woglinde> udev tries to figure out whats right
Dec 11 17:25:01 <SinofEnvy> okay, so next question.. how do I remove the "Getting started" thingy at the bottom of my screen? :p
Dec 11 17:25:24 <woglinde> sinofenv its an apllet
Dec 11 17:25:24 <Scummer> sitting in a vendor presentation is so much more bearable with a new toy :)
Dec 11 17:25:32 <ShadowJK> tap empty space on desktop, icon of gear pops up
Dec 11 17:25:44 <ShadowJK> press the gear, then tap titlebar menu
Dec 11 17:25:48 <woglinde> sinofenv somewher you can configure which appletts are shown on homescren
Dec 11 17:25:51 <SinofEnvy> ah yeah
Dec 11 17:25:55 <SinofEnvy> I see. I got it.
Dec 11 17:25:58 <woglinde> cool
Dec 11 17:26:00 <SinofEnvy> I should try before asking ;P
Dec 11 17:26:07 <SinofEnvy> I could've easily figured that one out hahab
Dec 11 17:26:09 <SinofEnvy> but thanks
Dec 11 17:26:28 <woglinde> urgs
Dec 11 17:26:32 <woglinde> Sorry for the inconvenience. garage has a maintenance break.
Dec 11 17:27:02 <yabo> Am I the only one who has trouble with the little support beside the phone ? I wish it was larger... When I need to cick on the top right corner the phone tips over
Dec 11 17:28:16 <odin_> the widgets that disappeared were, "Personal Data Plan Monitor", "Personal IP Address", "facebook", "Converstations Inbox", "Forceca Weather", however when I load them back (by adding them again, they each appear in the correct desktop place)
Dec 11 17:28:40 <_berto_> hildon-desktop running on Ubuntu Karmic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0-KQ6wPJ04
Dec 11 17:28:42 <flux> yabo, definitely. I think it's mostly for fairs or something, so they can hold the device in upright position..
Dec 11 17:29:12 <SinofEnvy> actually, if I recall correctly it was for watching movies etc...
Dec 11 17:29:31 <SinofEnvy> not so much a stand to actually USE the phone. just to position it so you can watch/look at it (so yeah I guess fairs as well)
Dec 11 17:29:31 <yabo> too bad, it's very useful for working with the phone on a table too...
Dec 11 17:30:58 <paroneayea> I thought I followed the instructions for adding the extras-testing repository, but I keep getting:
Dec 11 17:30:59 <paroneayea> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/dists/freemantle/non-free/binary-armel/Packages
Dec 11 17:31:38 <siriusnova> its fremantle
Dec 11 17:31:41 <siriusnova> not freemantle
Dec 11 17:31:43 <siriusnova> i made the same mistake
Dec 11 17:31:44 <siriusnova> :P
Dec 11 17:32:06 <mgedmin> at least it's easier to spell than scirrocco[sp?]
Dec 11 17:32:07 <pupnik> deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel fremantle free non-free
Dec 11 17:32:21 <pupnik> deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing fremantle free non-free
Dec 11 17:32:28 <paroneayea> ahhh
Dec 11 17:32:30 <paroneayea> heh
Dec 11 17:32:34 <paroneayea> fremantle.  gotcha.
Dec 11 17:32:42 <siriusnova> man there are a lot of libs in extras-devel
Dec 11 17:32:45 <siriusnova> browsing through them is slooow
Dec 11 17:33:11 <siriusnova> anyone try the openvpn app in testing?
Dec 11 17:33:12 <pupnik> kinetic scrolling widget is only good up to a couple hundred entries imo
Dec 11 17:33:12 <siriusnova> does it work
Dec 11 17:33:22 <mgedmin> pupnik, you don't say!
Dec 11 17:33:34 <pupnik> what is the solution for longer lists mgedmin
Dec 11 17:33:38 <mgedmin> ever tried to scroll to the bottom of a large html page (like the irc logs of this particular channel)?
Dec 11 17:33:41 <pupnik> how about a-z categories
Dec 11 17:33:41 <mgedmin> it's pure hell
Dec 11 17:33:59 <yabo> siriusnova, use apt-* :)
Dec 11 17:34:05 <pupnik> well the browser lets me scroll ahead of its rendering, which is very nice
Dec 11 17:34:16 <mgedmin> except you don't know when to stop scrolling
Dec 11 17:34:21 <mgedmin> you have to pause every so often to let it catch up
Dec 11 17:34:22 <siriusnova> well atm im browsing through http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/?org_openpsa_qbpager_packages_in_repo_page=18
Dec 11 17:34:28 <siriusnova> and i think maemo.org is lagging
Dec 11 17:34:33 <mgedmin> it's EVIL: even if you're holding your finger and NOT scrolling, it won't redraw
Dec 11 17:34:35 <siriusnova> the webserver is taking ages to refresh new pages
Dec 11 17:34:36 <siriusnova> :P
Dec 11 17:34:42 <siriusnova> are you guys running this on a N900?
Dec 11 17:34:54 <pupnik> mgedmin: there's really no choice, from a marketing perspective.  Scrollbars look old.
Dec 11 17:35:28 <pupnik> how about an invisible scrollbar on right side?
Dec 11 17:35:40 <pupnik> tap at 50% of vertical space to skip to 50% of webpage
Dec 11 17:35:44 <pupnik> ?
Dec 11 17:36:00 <yabo> pupnik, it would have been great that the scroll bars that are actually displayed when you scroll were functionnal
Dec 11 17:36:18 <yabo> it's soooo much useful to scroll on long lists or to go directly to a known spot
Dec 11 17:36:27 <johnq> is there a squashfs module for the official n900 kernel? if not, can I compile only the module and link it into the running kernel?
Dec 11 17:36:28 <pupnik> well, that is true
Dec 11 17:37:04 <mgedmin> for ordered lists, typeahead-search would work (think app manager with lots of apps)
Dec 11 17:37:09 <lardman|home> reboot time
Dec 11 17:37:09 <mgedmin> for web pages, I'm lost
Dec 11 17:37:15 <mgedmin> unlimited zoom-out maybe?
Dec 11 17:37:22 <mgedmin> as a multiplier for your scrolls
Dec 11 17:37:33 <mgedmin> currently the zoom-out stops at 80% or something like that
Dec 11 17:37:46 <yabo> sure about that ?
Dec 11 17:38:05 <siriusnova> cold pizza ftw
Dec 11 17:38:07 <siriusnova> :>
Dec 11 17:38:21 <yabo> mgedmin, indeed
Dec 11 17:38:22 <red> you guys got the circular motion zooming working
Dec 11 17:38:38 <red> for me trying to clockwise/counter move my finger on the screen just wiggles the webpage
Dec 11 17:38:42 <siriusnova> works for me
Dec 11 17:38:42 <yabo> red, yes, I find it quite nice
Dec 11 17:38:48 <siriusnova> i use a stylus
Dec 11 17:38:54 <red> i miss two-finger style
Dec 11 17:39:06 <red> guess i should try if i can get it to work with stylus
Dec 11 17:39:12 <red> <- butterfingers
Dec 11 17:39:18 <yabo> i have both working
Dec 11 17:39:50 <newday> anybody experiencing random reboots of the device ??
Dec 11 17:40:35 <melmoth> newday: i think i saw a thread with this subject on internettablettalk.com/forums
Dec 11 17:40:48 <paroneayea> yesss
Dec 11 17:40:50 <yabo> but what's bad with the zoom is that it doesn't refresh the page so that if you're at the max zoom out level and that you go to the max zoom in everything is pixellised and you have to wait a second so it is refreshed
Dec 11 17:41:21 <mgedmin> the browser is not as fast as I'd like it to be yes
Dec 11 17:41:55 <newday> this reboot problem is on bugzilla https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6334 but no solution found yet :(
Dec 11 17:41:57 <povbot> Bug 6334: random reboots
Dec 11 17:42:36 <adeus> I wonder if they set the "random boots" off on the final flash image :)
Dec 11 17:45:00 <melmoth> anybody kows how to enable CAL_DEBUG_LOG calls in the calendar_backend thingy ?
Dec 11 17:46:08 <lardman|home> re
Dec 11 17:46:52 <woglinde> gogo lardman
Dec 11 17:47:00 <lardman|home> hi woglinde
Dec 11 17:47:02 <woglinde> ~lart garage
Dec 11 17:47:03 * infobot makes a balloon animal out of garage
Dec 11 17:47:11 <lardman|home> :)
Dec 11 17:47:54 <Stargazers> I accidentally a whole file system. Is that bad?
Dec 11 17:48:08 <lardman|home> accidentally what?
Dec 11 17:48:09 <pupnik> and a verb too
Dec 11 17:48:11 <yabo> Stargazers, a verb is missing :)
Dec 11 17:48:17 <Stargazers> A file system
Dec 11 17:48:37 <yabo> That's not a word, same player plays again
Dec 11 17:48:40 <lardman|home> implicit "am"?
Dec 11 17:48:42 <yabo> (s/word/verb)
Dec 11 17:48:59 <lardman|home> [I *am* accidentally a whole file system. Is that bad?] ?
Dec 11 17:49:04 <yabo> :D
Dec 11 17:49:27 * lardman|home thinks the verb to "rm -rf" is more likely
Dec 11 17:49:56 <yabo> how do you rm -rf a file system ?
Dec 11 17:49:57 <yabo> :)
Dec 11 17:50:00 <Stargazers> lol just wanted to test if people here read 4chan :D
Dec 11 17:50:17 <lardman|home> yabo: "cd / && rm -rf" ??
Dec 11 17:50:33 <mgedmin> Always proofread carefully to see if you any words out, Stargazers!
Dec 11 17:50:39 <lardman|home> even better with fdisk mind you
Dec 11 17:50:44 <woglinde> dd if=/dev/zero  of=/dev/moo
Dec 11 17:50:45 <yabo> lardman, thecnically speaking you're not removing the file system but the files stored in it
Dec 11 17:50:52 <Stargazers> mgedmin: :)
Dec 11 17:50:56 <lardman|home> mgedmin: I can't talk though, I'm English and I manage to mistype all the time ;)
Dec 11 17:51:03 <mgedmin> the dd will remove the filesystem
Dec 11 17:51:09 <yabo> mgedmin, agree
Dec 11 17:51:13 <lardman|home> yabo: hmm, ok, I'll go one better then with dd ;)
Dec 11 17:51:15 <Stargazers> dd rocks
Dec 11 17:51:16 <woglinde> mgedmin who cares
Dec 11 17:51:16 <mgedmin> leaving just the empty husk of a partition behind it, assuming the filesystem was inside the partition
Dec 11 17:51:16 <yabo> dd if=/dev/random is funnied though
Dec 11 17:51:25 * mgedmin has extra skillz in pedantry
Dec 11 17:52:20 <woglinde> yabo hm only when you have fast entropie
Dec 11 17:52:20 <woglinde> so urandom is better
Dec 11 17:52:43 <Dr_Cain> err.. quick question
Dec 11 17:52:53 <Dr_Cain> How do i get the ALT key in xterm?
Dec 11 17:53:01 <yabo> woglinde, you don't want the FBI/CIA/NSA to be able to recover your data, which would happen by using a weaker random generator.
Dec 11 17:53:01 <Laiska> heh
Dec 11 17:53:02 <yabo> :)
Dec 11 17:53:26 <Laiska> Dr_Cain: i was juat about to ask the same thing :)
Dec 11 17:53:29 <lardman|home> Dr_Cain: what for?
Dec 11 17:53:40 <Dr_Cain> ...
Dec 11 17:53:42 <Laiska> alt+a e.g.
Dec 11 17:53:49 <Laiska> for irssi
Dec 11 17:53:51 <Dr_Cain> it's there on a normal keyboard, I would like to use it on my n900 too :P
Dec 11 17:53:53 <Dr_Cain> yeah
Dec 11 17:53:59 <Laiska> would be useful
Dec 11 17:54:03 <Dr_Cain> though, in irssi you can do esc+fn+number
Dec 11 17:54:17 <lardman|home> not sure you can actually
Dec 11 17:54:22 <Dr_Cain> hmm
Dec 11 17:54:26 <Dr_Cain> so no meta key? :|
Dec 11 17:54:32 <lardman|home> though I'm non-authoritative
Dec 11 17:54:38 <yabo> I miss the '~' key on the keyboard
Dec 11 17:54:39 <lardman|home> there may be a way
Dec 11 17:54:57 <woglinde> yabo he even water cannt destroy the n900
Dec 11 17:55:11 <mgedmin> Dr_Cain, for xterm apps, esc followed by a key is the same as alt+key
Dec 11 17:55:15 <mgedmin> at least for keys that are alphanumeric
Dec 11 17:55:22 <Stargazers> yabo: You mean sepparated key for that?
Dec 11 17:55:24 <siriusnova> man
Dec 11 17:55:25 <Dr_Cain> right
Dec 11 17:55:25 <lardman|home> thanks mgedmin
Dec 11 17:55:38 <siriusnova> this Nokia N900 is so much more open then google or i[phone
Dec 11 17:55:43 <yabo> Stargazers, no, just the '~' to be somewhere on the keyboard
Dec 11 17:55:46 <siriusnova> xchat and irssi + openssh = win
Dec 11 17:55:49 <siriusnova> :D
Dec 11 17:55:56 <lardman|home> :)
Dec 11 17:55:59 <Dr_Cain> :)
Dec 11 17:56:00 <woglinde> iphone is nothing open
Dec 11 17:56:43 <Stargazers> yabo: blue key above shift and ctrl/sym and then select that?
Dec 11 17:56:53 <Laiska> yabo: well you can find the tilde under Sym so I dont think its a problem
Dec 11 17:57:21 <yabo> yes I know about the Sym table, but I'm using it very often when in a shell
Dec 11 17:57:25 <yabo> so its quite painful
Dec 11 17:57:40 <VDVsx> iPhone is soooo close that you can't even remove the battery :P
Dec 11 17:58:04 <Stargazers> yabo: well that I meant when said separated key, uhm
Dec 11 17:58:19 <AbstractW> I'm really put off by the no multi-touch.
Dec 11 17:58:27 <AbstractW> When will apple's patent run out? :P
Dec 11 17:58:35 <yabo> Stargazers, oh ok
Dec 11 17:58:38 <range> What do you need multitouch for?
Dec 11 17:58:48 <AbstractW> You don't 'need' multitouch for anything.
Dec 11 17:58:54 <AbstractW> its just nice.
Dec 11 17:58:56 <Stargazers> yabo: I said it little bit strangely :P
Dec 11 17:58:58 <range> I'd really like to know that - all the iPhone people I know use double taps for zooming.
Dec 11 17:59:11 <yabo> Stargazers, yes, I thought it was like adding a new key dedicated to it
Dec 11 17:59:13 <AbstractW> I must be the only one who uses multi for zooming then.
Dec 11 17:59:23 <range> AbstractW: Do I know you? >:)
Dec 11 17:59:26 <yabo> Stargazers, but I recognize that the keyboard (azerty) is full so no space left for the ~
Dec 11 17:59:28 <AbstractW> :P
Dec 11 17:59:33 <VDVsx> AbstractW, seems that maemo6 has multitouch
Dec 11 17:59:41 * mgedmin would happily trade the pound key for ~
Dec 11 17:59:41 <VDVsx> *will have
Dec 11 17:59:46 <Stargazers> yabo: Yeah
Dec 11 17:59:50 <Stargazers> My bad
Dec 11 17:59:51 <AbstractW> Then the N900 will not officially be supported by maemo 6
Dec 11 17:59:58 <AbstractW> without a cap touch screen.
Dec 11 18:00:04 <range> Or Multitouch can be turned off in M6.
Dec 11 18:00:05 <lardman|home> I asked about that
Dec 11 18:00:20 <siriusnova> anyone try openvpn client
Dec 11 18:00:23 <lardman|home> was told the multi-touch gesture layer would be an optional part of Qt
Dec 11 18:00:25 <siriusnova> for Maemo 5?
Dec 11 18:00:28 <nomis> uh, can one send an SMS with the N900 without creating a new contact for the target number?
Dec 11 18:00:44 <VDVsx> AbstractW, you can still can use single touch in a multitouch device :)
Dec 11 18:01:06 <mgedmin> nomis, I think so
Dec 11 18:01:07 <AbstractW> True, I guess I've never known about double tap zin/zout on the iphone.
Dec 11 18:01:16 <mgedmin> Conversations -> New SMS -> type something in the To field
Dec 11 18:01:22 <mgedmin> haven't actually tried that
Dec 11 18:01:44 <nomis> mgedmin: oh right, thanks. I was looking in the telephone app.
Dec 11 18:02:05 <yabo> is there any plan for support of an external keyboard via the usb port ?
Dec 11 18:02:30 <siriusnova> oh well i guess ill be the guinea pig and try openvpn on my N900
Dec 11 18:02:30 <siriusnova> :X
Dec 11 18:02:49 <yabo> siriusnova, tell us how it performs :)
Dec 11 18:02:58 <nomis> yabo: AFAIK that is not possible, since they don't have USB host in the N900. A bluetooth keyboard should work though.
Dec 11 18:03:21 <yabo> nomis, ok thanks
Dec 11 18:03:23 <mgedmin> people complain about the system not having a standard pc105 keymap
Dec 11 18:03:34 <mgedmin> so bluetooth keyboards have many buttons simply not working
Dec 11 18:03:39 * mgedmin hasn't tried himself yet
Dec 11 18:03:46 <yabo> mgedmin, but that shouldn't be hard to add
Dec 11 18:03:48 <Dr_Cain> install one then :)
Dec 11 18:04:03 * lardman|home wonders what's gone wrong so that his greyscale conversion spits out all zeros
Dec 11 18:04:17 <mgedmin> where do I report bugs about avahi-daemon?
Dec 11 18:04:22 <yabo> but the usb keyboard could have been powered through the usb and that would have been kewl
Dec 11 18:04:25 <AbstractW> nomis: Is the lack of the USB host a lack of hardware? Or is it just not implemented in software?
Dec 11 18:04:31 <lardman|home> mgedmin: normal
Dec 11 18:04:35 <nomis> AbstractW: AFAIK it is a hardware issue.
Dec 11 18:04:51 <AbstractW> That would make more sense, as it'd be a trivial software thing.
Dec 11 18:04:52 <VDVsx> yabo, mgedmin seems that the X guys will accept maemo changes upstream and then we can have the upstream package in maemo with the default kb layouts :)
Dec 11 18:05:20 <AbstractW> Has there been any word from nokia about their Maemo 6 device?
Dec 11 18:05:29 <mgedmin> lardman|home, 'normal' what?
Dec 11 18:05:34 <yabo> VDVsx, ok
Dec 11 18:06:22 <lardman|home> bugs.maemo.org
Dec 11 18:06:27 <lardman|home> ?
Dec 11 18:06:37 <lardman|home> normal way, sorry
Dec 11 18:06:42 <paroneayea> hm
Dec 11 18:06:45 <paroneayea> can't install maemo-optify
Dec 11 18:06:48 <mgedmin> I looked once, couldn't find it
Dec 11 18:07:04 <lardman|home> https://bugs.maemo.org/
Dec 11 18:07:07 <lardman|home> is there
Dec 11 18:07:16 <mgedmin> avahi-daemon is in extras-devel
Dec 11 18:07:26 <lardman|home> oh, I see
Dec 11 18:07:35 <mgedmin> https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Extras -> no avahi listed there
Dec 11 18:07:37 <lardman|home> in which case probably email the package maintainer
Dec 11 18:07:51 <mgedmin> Maintainer: Utopia Maintenance Team <pkg-utopia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Dec 11 18:07:53 <lardman|home> I thought it was a standard package, sorry
Dec 11 18:07:59 <mgedmin> I doubt they were the ones who uploaded avahi to maemo extras
Dec 11 18:08:01 <lardman|home> mgedmin: hmm
Dec 11 18:08:12 <lardman|home> mgedmin: in which case ping X-Fade to find out who uploaded it
Dec 11 18:08:18 <mgedmin> so I'm grasping at straws and asking on irc
Dec 11 18:08:22 <mgedmin> actually, why?
Dec 11 18:08:25 <mgedmin> I could ask on the list
Dec 11 18:08:28 <VDVsx> mgedmin, I think you need a brainstorm for that :D
Dec 11 18:08:37 <mgedmin> or hijack the package and supply the missing /etc/event.d/ config file
Dec 11 18:09:45 <mgedmin> aha, debian/changelog tells me who uploaded it to maemo!
Dec 11 18:10:02 <mgedmin> for some reason I thought dpkg-buildpackage took the debian/changelog name + email and put it into the control file
Dec 11 18:10:35 <lardman|home> no, unfortunately not
Dec 11 18:11:36 * mgedmin finds retribution messages of the form "I will now give my money to your competitor!" somewhat funny
Dec 11 18:13:19 <cbrake> how does one install ssh on a N900?
Dec 11 18:13:48 <lardman|home> openssh from the repo
Dec 11 18:13:50 <Stargazers> cbrake: openssh in extras?
Dec 11 18:14:10 <cbrake> is browsing downloads.maemo.org that way that is done?
Dec 11 18:14:25 <lardman|home> Application Manager
Dec 11 18:14:28 <divinegod> how much space is available for text messages? I've reached the limit I think.
Dec 11 18:14:41 <divinegod> But deleting conversations didn't help
Dec 11 18:14:43 <mgedmin> where are they stored?  I'm curious
Dec 11 18:14:56 <divinegod> and it seems that I can't send or recieve tests now.
Dec 11 18:14:59 <xorAxAx> divinegod: 50 text messages in the default version, 200 messages in the premium version of the n900
Dec 11 18:15:09 <Stargazers> mgedmin: In sqlite3
Dec 11 18:15:17 <mgedmin> in $HOME?
Dec 11 18:15:28 <xorAxAx> use grep :)
Dec 11 18:15:37 <Stargazers> Under home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger
Dec 11 18:15:39 <mgedmin> Ovi Store sells extra message store coupons for $1.05
Dec 11 18:15:41 <Stargazers> el.db
Dec 11 18:15:46 <cbrake> got it, thanks.
Dec 11 18:15:49 <xorAxAx> mgedmin: indeed
Dec 11 18:15:49 <lardman|home> xorAxAx: rubbish
Dec 11 18:16:00 <siriusnova> lol holy crap
Dec 11 18:16:09 <Stargazers> siriusnova: ?
Dec 11 18:16:10 <siriusnova> the openvpn applet requires like
Dec 11 18:16:15 <siriusnova> 20MB of python libs
Dec 11 18:16:17 <siriusnova> D:
Dec 11 18:16:23 <mgedmin> yeah :/
Dec 11 18:16:26 <Stargazers> Yikes
Dec 11 18:16:32 <xorAxAx> siriusnova: well, better than NIH
Dec 11 18:16:55 <siriusnova> anyway
Dec 11 18:16:56 <Stargazers> mgedmin: Did you found that db?
Dec 11 18:16:59 <siriusnova> ill try it anyway
Dec 11 18:16:59 <mgedmin> I love python, but I'm not convinced it's the best choice for a tablet
Dec 11 18:17:00 <siriusnova> :/
Dec 11 18:17:09 <xorAxAx> mgedmin: why not?
Dec 11 18:17:11 <mgedmin> Stargazers, no, I'm busy with something else
Dec 11 18:17:14 <siriusnova> any reccomendations wether i should use dropbear or just regular openssh
Dec 11 18:17:15 <lizardo> siriusnova: hopefully they are all going to /opt if you are using the optified version already :)
Dec 11 18:17:23 <Stargazers> mgedmin: Ok :)
Dec 11 18:17:23 <mgedmin> siriusnova, always used openssh, never had problems
Dec 11 18:17:29 <mgedmin> never tried dropbear for that reason
Dec 11 18:17:44 <mgedmin> I know my ~/.ssh/config syntax by heart
Dec 11 18:18:20 <Stargazers> Ssh config file ftw
Dec 11 18:18:39 <mgedmin> I should show you my ~/.profile hack that starts ssh-agent...
Dec 11 18:18:43 <siriusnova> herm k installing the openvpn applet
Dec 11 18:18:55 <siriusnova> time to set me up a new client key on my server
Dec 11 18:18:56 <siriusnova> :P
Dec 11 18:19:01 <Stargazers> mgedmin: where ssh-agent is used?
Dec 11 18:19:28 <mgedmin> by ssh, to avoid asking my passphrase every time
Dec 11 18:19:49 <t_s_o> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/12/poulsbo-mess-casts-a-shadow-on-intels-moblin-project.ars <- one more argument for the computing world to get of its x86 addiction?
Dec 11 18:19:52 <mgedmin> you ssh-add once, enter the passphrase that protects your key, and that's it
Dec 11 18:20:08 <mgedmin> anybody who steals your n900 can ssh anywhere as you until they reboot
Dec 11 18:20:15 <cehteh> does the n900 use pam for auth?
Dec 11 18:20:19 <Stargazers> mgedmin: Err I just use ssh-key
Dec 11 18:20:32 <mgedmin> with no passphrase?
Dec 11 18:20:54 * mgedmin wrote an upstart config file for avahi-daemon, but it didn't work :(
Dec 11 18:20:55 <Stargazers> yeah
Dec 11 18:21:03 <cehteh> outch
Dec 11 18:21:08 <Stargazers> I have passwd on machine surely
Dec 11 18:21:21 <mgedmin> so what, keys sidestep passwords
Dec 11 18:21:25 <cehteh> that wont help
Dec 11 18:21:44 <cehteh> you want a good passphrase for your ssh key
Dec 11 18:21:56 <Stargazers> No I dont
Dec 11 18:22:14 <Stargazers> I use keys only trusted computers
Dec 11 18:22:19 <mgedmin> hey, if the man leaves his house doors unlocked when he leaves on vacation, it's his choice
Dec 11 18:22:23 <cehteh> actually i use pam_ssh on my laptop, that means i login with my ssh-passphrase and it starts a ssh agent automatically
Dec 11 18:22:57 <Stargazers> mgedmin: Well I lock my pc
Dec 11 18:23:19 <cehteh> Stargazers: without a passphrase on a ssh key anyone can use it who gets access to it .. as in stealing it
Dec 11 18:23:26 <yabo> Stargazers, I can read directly your hardrive and therefore your key...
Dec 11 18:23:29 <Stargazers> I know
Dec 11 18:23:43 <cehteh> and the normal 'login' password doesnt help
Dec 11 18:23:50 <Stargazers> yabo: well yeah but sometimes my hard drive is crypted.
Dec 11 18:23:54 <mgedmin> technically, anybody with sufficient access to read his hard disk can install a keylogger and capture his password
Dec 11 18:23:59 <Stargazers> I know that
Dec 11 18:24:01 <cehteh> 'sometimes' :)
Dec 11 18:24:17 <Stargazers> cehteh: well on llast installation
Dec 11 18:24:17 <cehteh> my harddrive is always crypted :P
Dec 11 18:24:23 <Stargazers> atm nit
Dec 11 18:24:28 <Stargazers> atm not
Dec 11 18:24:38 <adeus> that gets you nowhere if the comp is corked while running
Dec 11 18:24:52 <Stargazers> adeus: yep
Dec 11 18:24:53 <yabo> Stargazers, but that means that by breaking one encryption our finding one hard drive not encrypted breaks all your security
Dec 11 18:25:07 <yabo> why bother with security then ?
Dec 11 18:25:29 * cehteh still wonders how to protect a n900 in a good way
Dec 11 18:25:49 <adeus> a ton of cement
Dec 11 18:25:54 <Stargazers> Well I do not generate keys everywhere...
Dec 11 18:26:37 <Stargazers> Of course someone can steal my pc and take its hd and so on
Dec 11 18:27:01 <Stargazers> But what he gets? My irssi account to hack, lol
Dec 11 18:27:13 <cehteh> serious .. i dont know yet how auth works there, just entering the pin? does it use pam?
Dec 11 18:27:20 <adeus> hey, like google said, only criminals have something to hide :P
Dec 11 18:27:26 <Stargazers> I have my personal stuff gpg crypted
Dec 11 18:27:45 <adeus> is there any good gpg apps for n900?
Dec 11 18:27:55 <mgedmin> wait, what?  I reboot my n900 and it connects to 3g instead of my wlan!
Dec 11 18:27:57 <adeus> as in password safe
Dec 11 18:27:58 <yabo> have to go, see you folks
Dec 11 18:28:12 <cehteh> adeus: gpg is there isnt it?
Dec 11 18:28:16 <mgedmin> explains why I can't see avahi running
Dec 11 18:28:19 <Stargazers> I am too paranoid to save images on servers what I dont maintance myself
Dec 11 18:28:23 <adeus> yes but as in a gui app
Dec 11 18:28:37 <cehteh> dunno
Dec 11 18:28:50 <Stargazers> But now gotta go o/
Dec 11 18:28:59 <adeus> the Handy Safe that I have now on my 5800 needs a replacement
Dec 11 18:29:01 <mgedmin> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111.................
Dec 11 18:29:05 <mgedmin> Sorry for the inconvenience. garage has a maintenance break.
Dec 11 18:29:18 <pupnik> cehteh: glass display case on the shelf, and synergy
Dec 11 18:29:45 <cehteh> pupnik: well serious
Dec 11 18:30:19 <cehteh> with my laptop i have a fingerprint scanner which is fun for unlocking things (but not for login)
Dec 11 18:30:20 <pupnik> i use an old cellphone case and the maemo neckband
Dec 11 18:30:43 <cehteh> means you dont have to enter passwords in public places
Dec 11 18:31:03 <mgedmin> command-line pwsafe rules, well, doesn't
Dec 11 18:31:10 <mgedmin> but at least it keeps the passwords invisible
Dec 11 18:31:43 <cehteh> for a n900 it would be a bit inconvinient to enter a password frequently
Dec 11 18:32:06 <adeus> the fingerprint thing is rather unsafe
Dec 11 18:32:22 <cehteh> well .. ok for me
Dec 11 18:32:38 <cehteh> i dont use it for unlocking the harddisk or for login
Dec 11 18:32:50 <cehteh> its not *that* easy to cheat
Dec 11 18:33:03 <cehteh> at least a password is easier to spy
Dec 11 18:33:36 <Lupu> That's why you use password-protected SSH keys.
Dec 11 18:33:49 <cehteh> eh?
Dec 11 18:33:57 <Lupu> Neither the key nor password alone will gain access. :)
Dec 11 18:34:29 <Lupu> (for typing in public places, that is)
Dec 11 18:35:19 <cehteh> hey btw .. by config error i did (1.5 years ago when i setup this laptop) root login over ssh requires a fingerprint swipe .. i like that :P try to remote root login on my laptop haha
Dec 11 18:35:50 <cehteh> Lupu: i am first talking about local login on the device (laptop, n900 whatever)
Dec 11 18:35:57 <dolphin> fingerprint scanners are "myth busted"
Dec 11 18:36:12 <cehteh> dolphin: passwords too
Dec 11 18:36:17 <zerojay> Quim apparently finds it more important to jump up and say that my package has blockers (which it doesn't) than it is to respond to my e-mail about my busted N900. Awesome.
Dec 11 18:36:36 <dolphin> nobody ever claimed passwords to be safe
Dec 11 18:36:59 <SpeedEvil> busted?
Dec 11 18:37:10 <cehteh> dolphin: so what are the alternatives?
Dec 11 18:37:24 <dolphin> subconscious memory
Dec 11 18:37:35 <zerojay> SpeedEvil: Yes.
Dec 11 18:37:41 <cehteh> cant anyone be serious?
Dec 11 18:37:51 <SpeedEvil> zerojay: in what manner/
Dec 11 18:38:01 <zerojay> SpeedEvil: Micro USB port broke.
Dec 11 18:38:20 <SpeedEvil> zerojay: oh - that - sorry - forgot.
Dec 11 18:38:34 <zerojay> I sent an e-mail a week or so ago... still no response... but yet, he's all over a complaint that my plugin isn't optified, which is bullshit.
Dec 11 18:38:41 <mgedmin> halp! anybody understands upstart?
Dec 11 18:38:58 <woglinde> mgedmin sure
Dec 11 18:39:03 <woglinde> read the doku
Dec 11 18:39:12 <woglinde> mgedmin or whats your problem?
Dec 11 18:39:33 <mgedmin> woglinde, I'm trying to get avahi-daemon to start up
Dec 11 18:39:40 <mgedmin> it won't
Dec 11 18:39:45 <woglinde> hm why someone want avahid
Dec 11 18:39:45 <mgedmin> if I sudo start avahi-daemon it does
Dec 11 18:39:56 <woglinde> its the second I delete after networkmanager
Dec 11 18:40:14 <mgedmin> my upstart job has 'start on stopped rcS' just like the sshd job, which comes up fine
Dec 11 18:40:24 <fnordianslip> i find avahi useful
Dec 11 18:40:24 <pupnik> thanks for your work woglinde
Dec 11 18:40:28 <mgedmin> woglinde, 'ssh mg-n900.local' in *any* WLAN *anywhere* rules
Dec 11 18:40:45 <mgedmin> no typing of IP addresses of asking admins to configure dhcp/dns
Dec 11 18:40:51 <woglinde> pupnik qtnx again?
Dec 11 18:41:11 <woglinde> pupnik I will try fremantle stuff this weekend
Dec 11 18:41:23 <woglinde> and we have a n900 at work now
Dec 11 18:41:25 <pupnik> it is just beautifully fast
Dec 11 18:41:27 <pupnik> great!
Dec 11 18:41:32 <mgedmin> woglinde, here's my attempt, next to a working sshd config: http://pastie.org/739340
Dec 11 18:41:47 <mgedmin> note that -D for sshd means "don't daemonize", while -D for avahi-daemon means the opposite
Dec 11 18:42:34 <woglinde> mgedmin no erroer output?
Dec 11 18:42:41 <mgedmin> where?
Dec 11 18:42:48 <woglinde> syslog?
Dec 11 18:42:49 <mgedmin> maybe I should install syslog
Dec 11 18:42:59 <woglinde> hm try logread
Dec 11 18:43:12 <mgedmin> point is, 'sudo start avahi' works... hey, maybe avahi ought to wait for some other service, like dbus
Dec 11 18:43:15 <mgedmin> thanks for the idea!
Dec 11 18:43:34 <woglinde> hm yes
Dec 11 18:43:49 <ifreq> why would anyone really run sshd on phone?
Dec 11 18:43:55 <ifreq> just a thought.
Dec 11 18:43:56 <woglinde> iefq sure
Dec 11 18:43:57 <Mousey> you can't think of a reason?!
Dec 11 18:44:01 <SinofEnvy> Is there a N900 compatible PC suite? :/ or is there another possibility to sync Outlook with my n900?
Dec 11 18:44:05 <Mousey> fish:// that's why!
Dec 11 18:44:05 <fnordianslip> hmm.  shouldn't avahi-daaemon (re)start when a network interface comes up?
Dec 11 18:44:12 <SinofEnvy> when downloading the PC suite on the nokia site it says the n900 is incompatible
Dec 11 18:44:17 <ifreq> Mousey: nope, nothing else than insecure access for hacker
Dec 11 18:44:17 <woglinde> openssh was the first package my coworker installed on n900
Dec 11 18:44:22 <mgedmin> ifreq, file transfer
Dec 11 18:44:28 <mgedmin> sshfs or scp -- no cables!
Dec 11 18:44:29 <ifreq> mgedmin: what about usb storage
Dec 11 18:44:37 <woglinde> ifreq type passwd
Dec 11 18:44:39 * Mousey huggles sshfs
Dec 11 18:44:45 <mgedmin> cables are for hobos
Dec 11 18:44:54 <Mousey> and security freaks
Dec 11 18:44:57 <ifreq> so rather open service against internet
Dec 11 18:44:59 <mgedmin> the bottleneck is eMMC write throughput anyway
Dec 11 18:45:01 <ifreq> on a mobile phone
Dec 11 18:45:04 <ifreq> ok nvm.
Dec 11 18:45:05 <Mousey> yes
Dec 11 18:45:10 <ifreq> dont wanna start wars ;)
Dec 11 18:45:14 <Mousey> to get all the music/pictures on/off
Dec 11 18:45:15 <mgedmin> hey, let the internet crack my SSH key if they want to
Dec 11 18:45:24 <woglinde> ifreq try read about simtoolkit and you will never use a cellphone anymore
Dec 11 18:45:32 <Mousey> just install denyhosts
Dec 11 18:45:33 <mgedmin> although lack of a maemo security team providing openssh security updates is maybe a bit worrying :/
Dec 11 18:45:35 <Mousey> or don't listen on 22
Dec 11 18:45:42 <Mousey> or don't listen on the cel radio
Dec 11 18:46:04 <mgedmin> I suppose I could configure sshd to only listen on wlan, maybe
Dec 11 18:46:15 <woglinde> mgedmin jupp
Dec 11 18:46:16 <woglinde> Listen
Dec 11 18:46:17 <ifreq> well happily i dont need to move files 24/7  to phone
Dec 11 18:46:18 <woglinde> option
Dec 11 18:46:21 <woglinde> in sshd_config
Dec 11 18:46:38 <mgedmin> it wants a network address, not interface name, doesn't it?
Dec 11 18:46:52 <woglinde> ifreq by the way google g1 has only telnet as default
Dec 11 18:47:03 <woglinde> hm
Dec 11 18:47:08 <woglinde> let me check the doku
Dec 11 18:47:08 <ifreq> woglinde: i dont care about sharing my phone against internet access
Dec 11 18:47:15 * mgedmin loved that "everything you type is entered into a root shell" bug of android
Dec 11 18:47:22 <odin_> SinofEnvy, I am using Nokia PC connectivity v7.1.40.1
Dec 11 18:47:25 <ifreq> so no telnet no ssh., ive got sshd on servers.
Dec 11 18:47:47 <ifreq> but eof with this discussion, was just wondering.
Dec 11 18:48:02 <woglinde> mgedmin hm only adresses
Dec 11 18:48:18 <ifreq> woglinde: yeh well it can listen on WIFI LAN
Dec 11 18:48:22 <jaem_n810> morning
Dec 11 18:49:44 <mgedmin> woohoo it worked!
Dec 11 18:49:55 <woglinde> mgedmin cool
Dec 11 18:50:04 * mgedmin is building a fixed avahi-daemon package now in scratchbox
Dec 11 18:50:13 <woglinde> mgedmin what was it?
Dec 11 18:50:21 * GAN900 wonders why there are so mant Maseratis in Florida.
Dec 11 18:50:26 <woglinde> mgedmin build a sreadahead
Dec 11 18:50:31 <GAN900> s/mant/many/
Dec 11 18:50:32 <mgedmin> "start on stopped rcS" instead of "start on started dbus"
Dec 11 18:50:41 <lopz> Someone has the application "motion" running on a n800?
Dec 11 18:50:45 <woglinde> mgedmin hihi
Dec 11 18:50:48 <mgedmin> nah, next goal is probably an upstart script for screen to mkdir /var/run/screen
Dec 11 18:50:56 <woglinde> mgedmin and dbus depends on udev right?
Dec 11 18:51:43 <ifreq> is there a spotify client out yet?
Dec 11 18:51:46 <zemm> ifreq: is there even alternative for ssh to directly modify files on the phone (mass storage mode + unmounts = no) ? :)
Dec 11 18:51:49 <mgedmin> dbus has start on USER
Dec 11 18:52:02 <ifreq> and hows the status with openvpn, no gui yet?
Dec 11 18:52:04 <mgedmin> zemm, samba?
Dec 11 18:52:15 <mgedmin> nfs?
Dec 11 18:52:15 <ifreq> zemm: i use usb mass storage so no worries :)
Dec 11 18:52:26 <ifreq> sued to have sshfs for various of things, but really no need :)
Dec 11 18:52:31 <zemm> well that would result countless plug/unplugs
Dec 11 18:52:35 <GAN900> paroneayea, you can just leave the dist field blank.
Dec 11 18:52:37 <GAN900> It'll autofill the appropriate thing.
Dec 11 18:52:40 <ifreq> asi only transfer music and movies (rsync +mount)
Dec 11 18:52:48 <jaem_n810> ifreq, is sshfs available yet?
Dec 11 18:52:57 <mgedmin> also, zemm, you can't edit stuff like /etc/event.d/avahi-daemon over mass storage
Dec 11 18:53:02 <ifreq> jaem_n810: sshfs is availabe to any system which has sshd
Dec 11 18:53:03 <mgedmin> and I'd rather do that with a real laptop keyboard
Dec 11 18:53:08 <zemm> that too
Dec 11 18:53:10 <ifreq> jaem_n810: well not on maemo client i guess
Dec 11 18:53:35 <mgedmin> anybody know when the garage maintenance break will be over?
Dec 11 18:53:41 <zemm> mgedmin: is there samba available somewhere?
Dec 11 18:53:41 <jaem_n810> ifreq, I was meaning "is it in a fremantle repo"
Dec 11 18:53:52 <jaem_n810> I thought I heard something about someone working on it...
Dec 11 18:53:52 <mgedmin> zemm, dunno, it never interested me
Dec 11 18:53:58 <mgedmin> I think I remember people building it for the 770
Dec 11 18:54:06 <ifreq> jaem_n810: yeh i dunno.
Dec 11 18:55:04 <jaem_n810> gui installer for the SDK?  bah!
Dec 11 18:55:06 <jaem_n810> ;)
Dec 11 18:55:13 <siriusnova> well
Dec 11 18:55:14 <siriusnova> guyz
Dec 11 18:55:18 * jaem_n810 is installing sbox in easy-debian
Dec 11 18:55:23 <siriusnova> I can verify for you that the openvpn app and applet works just dandy
Dec 11 18:55:25 <siriusnova> :D
Dec 11 18:55:36 <siriusnova> in extras-devel and testing
Dec 11 18:55:54 <ifreq> siriusnova: yeh i saw the vpn app, wheres the applet?
Dec 11 18:56:04 <ifreq> ah or is the applet on devel (not using it yet)
Dec 11 18:56:05 <siriusnova> ifreq - apparently you have to install openvpn-applet
Dec 11 18:56:18 <siriusnova> the openvpn in devel works
Dec 11 18:56:19 <ifreq> okay, im a bit too scared to install dev repo
Dec 11 18:56:21 <siriusnova> the one in testing doesnt
Dec 11 18:56:27 <ifreq> openvpn is on extras-testing imo
Dec 11 18:56:30 <ifreq> aha
Dec 11 18:56:32 <ifreq> damn it
Dec 11 18:56:39 <ifreq> im forced to install it then :)
Dec 11 18:56:39 <siriusnova> also openvpn-applet doesnt show up in the app catalog
Dec 11 18:56:42 <siriusnova> you have to apt-get it
Dec 11 18:56:43 <jaem_n810> ifreq don't be scared - reflashing is fun! :D
Dec 11 18:56:50 <johnq> I'm trying to compile some backport of the squashfs v4 kernel module. Compilation goes fine, but modprobe tells me "Invalid module format" and dmesg says "no symbol version for struct_module". Any idea?
Dec 11 18:56:50 <ifreq> hrr :) well it isnt!
Dec 11 18:56:51 <siriusnova> reboot your device and it shows up at the top
Dec 11 18:56:54 <siriusnova> it works just fine
Dec 11 18:56:57 <ifreq> thanks man
Dec 11 18:56:59 <siriusnova> it install 20MB of python crap though
Dec 11 18:56:59 <siriusnova> :/
Dec 11 18:57:02 <siriusnova> *installs
Dec 11 18:57:19 <woglinde> he
Dec 11 18:57:22 <woglinde> python
Dec 11 18:57:28 <woglinde> isnt crap
Dec 11 18:57:34 <ifreq> siriusnova: so you have all the repos enabled?
Dec 11 18:57:38 <siriusnova> yes
Dec 11 18:57:53 <ifreq> okay and still ircing, cant be so bad then
Dec 11 18:57:54 <ifreq> *g*
Dec 11 18:58:14 <woglinde> johnq hm yes you have other header/config for the running kernel
Dec 11 18:58:56 <jaem_n810> hrm... where does easy-debian on the N900 mount the image to?
Dec 11 18:59:09 <jaem_n810> oops... nvm
Dec 11 18:59:31 <johnq> woglinde: where do I get the correct config? I followed the instructions in http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide
Dec 11 18:59:32 <woglinde> johnq try with header-kernel-package which match your running kernel
Dec 11 18:59:32 <woglinde> or install the kernel you compiled
Dec 11 18:59:39 <woglinde> johnq sorry
Dec 11 19:00:24 <johnq> and used apt-get source kernel in the scratchbox.
Dec 11 19:00:50 <woglinde> johnq hm cannt you overwrite actual kernel?
Dec 11 19:02:09 <_claesbas> I am looking for a thread on talk.maemo.org which shows different countries keyboard layouts on the n900.. I can't find it while searching..
Dec 11 19:02:11 <mgedmin> johnq, does the kernel version match?
Dec 11 19:02:18 <mgedmin> are you using the official production firmware?
Dec 11 19:02:28 <_claesbas> doe anyone here master the serach funktion there?
Dec 11 19:02:31 <mgedmin> did you run fakeroot apt-get update in your scratchbox recently?
Dec 11 19:03:03 <_claesbas> bit scared someone will kill me if I ask for it
Dec 11 19:03:17 <_claesbas> on talk
Dec 11 19:03:34 <jaem_n810> _claesbas Google site:talk.maemo.org ?
Dec 11 19:03:39 <johnq> I hope I don't have to overwrite the current kernel
Dec 11 19:03:57 <jaem_n810> t.m.o. search is pretty good, but sometimes El Goog is easier
Dec 11 19:03:58 <johnq> the kernel on the device is 2.6.28-omap1 (factory kernel)
Dec 11 19:04:38 <jaem_n810> _claesbas, also, we're nice here :) - if you've already tried to find something, we won't bite your head off for asking for help
Dec 11 19:05:09 <johnq> mgedmin: I think I ran it shortly before downloading the kernel source
Dec 11 19:05:28 <mgedmin> johnq, check with apt-cache policy kernel
Dec 11 19:06:08 <mgedmin> 2.6.28-20094102.3+0m5 is the kernel available in the SDK (the recently announced 1st update)
Dec 11 19:06:14 <mgedmin> dunno what's on the production firmware
Dec 11 19:06:27 <_claesbas> jaem_n810, ok, I will do some more searching and if I not lucky I ask for it..
Dec 11 19:06:32 <mgedmin> my Amsterdam device has 2.6.28-20094102+0m5
Dec 11 19:06:45 <mgedmin> the original SDK release had 2.6.28-20093908+0m5
Dec 11 19:07:03 <mgedmin> the original SDK kernel + amsterdam device = version mismatch errors or (if you strip versions) kernel panics and reboots
Dec 11 19:07:19 <johnq> linux-kernel-headers is ...908+0m5, but it seems there is no package kernel (only a source package with that name)
Dec 11 19:07:22 <mgedmin> that was when I was trying to build iptables.ko
Dec 11 19:07:35 <johnq> where can I get the actual version in the files (.ko and running kernel)?
Dec 11 19:07:57 <mgedmin> xterm on your n900, apt-cache policy kernel
Dec 11 19:08:01 <ifreq> how do i can see on app-manager from what repo im installing the current package?
Dec 11 19:08:04 <johnq> ah sorry, of course ;-)
Dec 11 19:08:15 <ifreq> ah nvm
Dec 11 19:08:45 <johnq> the version string is exactly the same as the one of the source .tar.gz
Dec 11 19:08:57 <johnq> (...4102.3+0m5)
Dec 11 19:09:14 <mgedmin> hm, bad
Dec 11 19:09:16 <johnq> I suspect that I compiled the module incorrectly
Dec 11 19:09:29 <mgedmin> I hope so
Dec 11 19:09:40 <mgedmin> or we have a mismatch somewhere and nobody can compile modules for the official kernel :(
Dec 11 19:09:46 <mgedmin> and that would mean no iptables for me :(
Dec 11 19:09:50 <johnq> I patched the full kernel sources and did make EXTRAVERSION=-maemo2 modules
Dec 11 19:10:00 <mgedmin> I think that's bunk
Dec 11 19:10:19 <johnq> and then copied over the .ko file in fs/squashfs
Dec 11 19:10:20 <mgedmin> the official kernel is built with EXTRAVERSION=-omap1
Dec 11 19:10:25 <johnq> hmm
Dec 11 19:10:25 <mgedmin> I *think*
Dec 11 19:10:28 <johnq> makes sense
Dec 11 19:10:30 <mgedmin> since that's what uname -a displays on my n900
Dec 11 19:10:51 <johnq> right
Dec 11 19:11:23 <mgedmin> if you have success with kernel modules, please write to the list (or fix bugs in the wiki page)!
Dec 11 19:11:36 <mgedmin> I have to go now
Dec 11 19:11:39 <mgedmin> bye all!
Dec 11 19:11:51 <johnq> EXTRAVERSION=-maemo2 is mentioned on the wiki
Dec 11 19:11:54 <johnq> but also -omap1
Dec 11 19:12:36 <ifreq> anyone has good top10 top25 apps sites?
Dec 11 19:13:18 <pupnik> debian.org
Dec 11 19:13:46 <johnq> argh, still same error
Dec 11 19:14:47 <ifreq> siriusnova: so applet should be shown after a reboot on top of screen allready?
Dec 11 19:14:56 <siriusnova> ifreq
Dec 11 19:15:00 <ifreq> ah nvm:))
Dec 11 19:15:03 <siriusnova> did you install openvpn and openvpn-applet?
Dec 11 19:15:06 <ifreq> just too exited of it
Dec 11 19:15:08 <ifreq> yeah
Dec 11 19:15:08 <ifreq> np
Dec 11 19:15:14 <ifreq> <-- blind by exitement
Dec 11 19:15:17 <siriusnova> lol
Dec 11 19:15:46 <johnsu01> Heh, is it really necessary for Nokia to claim that the shell script installers for the SDK are proprietary software?
Dec 11 19:16:14 <johnq> i'm giving up for now
Dec 11 19:18:57 <pupnik> what are you most excited about using on n900 ifreq ?
Dec 11 19:19:42 <ifreq> pupnik: the ability to do so much compared to my old phones :)
Dec 11 19:19:56 <ifreq> pupnik: also quite happy with the hw, physical keyb, more opensrc env
Dec 11 19:20:10 <ifreq> pupnik: now i can even do some of my work via vpn+ ssh nicely
Dec 11 19:20:18 <pupnik> it is heroic it ever got produced as open as it is
Dec 11 19:20:21 <pupnik> yep
Dec 11 19:22:06 <jaem_n810> pupnik, yeah
Dec 11 19:22:49 <siriusnova> openvpn is the killer deal for me
Dec 11 19:22:50 <siriusnova> lol
Dec 11 19:22:52 <siriusnova> seriousl
Dec 11 19:23:05 <siriusnova> i live and work in a censored country
Dec 11 19:23:10 <siriusnova> without openvpn my data is snooped on
Dec 11 19:23:14 <siriusnova> :<
Dec 11 19:23:32 <AbstractW> what country would that be?
Dec 11 19:23:37 <ifreq> siriusnova: yeah that must be suckage :P
Dec 11 19:23:39 <siriusnova> saudi arabia
Dec 11 19:23:46 <AbstractW> That'd do it :P
Dec 11 19:24:00 <AbstractW> At least your government is open about snooping your data.
Dec 11 19:24:00 <Mousey> lets talk about sex!
Dec 11 19:24:08 <siriusnova> lol
Dec 11 19:24:15 <AbstractW> my country isn't nearly as open about the snooping they do.
Dec 11 19:24:33 <ifreq> anyone tested vulture's eye?
Dec 11 19:24:52 <javispedro> ifreq:  ye
Dec 11 19:24:52 <siriusnova> nope
Dec 11 19:24:55 <javispedro> yep
Dec 11 19:24:57 <Dr_Cain> ok.. xchat from extras-devel, not quite stable yet :/
Dec 11 19:25:04 <siriusnova> well
Dec 11 19:25:08 <siriusnova> its in devel for a reason :p
Dec 11 19:25:10 <ifreq> javispedro: was nice or?
Dec 11 19:25:12 <siriusnova> it hasnt crashed for me yet
Dec 11 19:25:13 <siriusnova> heh
Dec 11 19:25:21 <johnsq> Hi
Dec 11 19:25:26 <Dr_Cain> try switching the channel list to the bottom
Dec 11 19:25:38 <Dr_Cain> it give me a segfault :(
Dec 11 19:25:40 <javispedro> ifreq: it is nethack, and I still don't know what nethack is. some dialogs are a little bit on the smallish side but seems playable.
Dec 11 19:25:58 <ifreq> heh
Dec 11 19:29:15 <Ceron^> http://www.rollina.net/lj/icons/Teal%27c-Jaffa-cakes.jpg
Dec 11 19:33:13 <siriusnova> herm
Dec 11 19:33:19 <siriusnova> how do i port console based apps to the maemo
Dec 11 19:33:20 <siriusnova> :/
Dec 11 19:33:25 <siriusnova> i mean N900
Dec 11 19:33:49 <melmoth> siriusnova: recompile them in the sdk
Dec 11 19:33:56 <siriusnova> ic
Dec 11 19:34:06 <melmoth> easiest way is to apt-get source a package from a debian based distribution
Dec 11 19:34:23 <melmoth> then , on the sdk, dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
Dec 11 19:34:32 <melmoth> if you are lucky, that's all what is needed
Dec 11 19:34:35 <siriusnova> k
Dec 11 19:39:53 <RevdKathy> Wow! great conversation in here tonight!
Dec 11 19:41:54 <RST38h> Hmmm...employment agencies seem to be having some fest tonight, 3 emails in a row...
Dec 11 19:42:10 <evo> Hello, had anyone experienced troubles with mp3 tags and maemo multimedia player? I'm talkin' about "case sensitive" issues
Dec 11 19:42:21 * RST38h feels inclined to answer "But don't you want to help me enlarge my penis?"
Dec 11 19:43:31 <siriusnova> man
Dec 11 19:43:36 <siriusnova> i could play with my n900 all day
Dec 11 19:43:37 <siriusnova> :P
Dec 11 19:43:42 <siriusnova> but i think i need to sleep now
Dec 11 19:44:15 <siriusnova> Nokia does need to update Ovi Maps
Dec 11 19:44:20 <siriusnova> its all but useless right now
Dec 11 19:44:26 <javispedro> yeah
Dec 11 19:44:33 <siriusnova> compared to my Nokia 5800 running Symbian and Ovi Maps 3.0
Dec 11 19:44:34 <javispedro> try the Nokia Map Loader though
Dec 11 19:44:44 <javispedro> it seems to do something if you clear the "data store"
Dec 11 19:44:45 <siriusnova> also no ovi suite
Dec 11 19:44:49 <siriusnova> herm k
Dec 11 19:44:52 <AbstractW> Does google maps work in the browser?
Dec 11 19:44:55 <javispedro> including the ability to actually see the map without connectivity
Dec 11 19:59:23 <RST38h> oh holy fuck
Dec 11 19:59:28 <pupnik> For some reason N900 directory select now shows me two entries for: "Audio clips" "Camera" "Documents" "Images" and "Video clips"
Dec 11 19:59:38 <pupnik> anybody know this weirdness?
Dec 11 19:59:41 <RST38h> Who removed libpulse0 (>= 0.9.15~test5), ?
Dec 11 19:59:44 <pupnik> since two weeks now
Dec 11 20:00:04 <RST38h> pupnik: Yes it is a known bug
Dec 11 20:00:30 <pupnik> thanks.  i dunno RST38h.  I wasn't able to find anything to 'improve' or 'temporarily disable' in /etc/pulse
Dec 11 20:00:36 <RST38h> bug 5838
Dec 11 20:00:37 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5838 Certain directory entries are duplicated
Dec 11 20:01:00 <RST38h> pupnik: no, it got removed from extras so none of my packages can be installed now
Dec 11 20:07:22 * microlith wishes UPS would come by sooner
Dec 11 20:08:06 <pupnik> RST38h: alright, the person who removed it SHOULD be here, no?
Dec 11 20:08:33 <RST38h> pupnik: No idea
Dec 11 20:08:50 <javispedro> libpulse was on extras?
Dec 11 20:09:04 <RST38h> I have no idea where it was but it is no longer there
Dec 11 20:09:27 <javispedro> 0.9.15-1maemo27+0m5
Dec 11 20:09:29 <javispedro> this is my device one
Dec 11 20:09:35 <RST38h> same here
Dec 11 20:09:41 <javispedro> just edit your package to depend on >0.9.15 and resubmit
Dec 11 20:09:43 <RST38h> but now look at the fmsx page in packages
Dec 11 20:09:49 <javispedro> >=0.9.15 I mean
Dec 11 20:10:03 <RST38h> javispedro: all votes get wiped out and it never ever gets promoted
Dec 11 20:10:10 <javispedro> ah, the wonders of -testing
Dec 11 20:10:27 <javispedro> either way pulling libpulse0 from extras is wrong
Dec 11 20:10:30 <RST38h> threshold is still set to 10
Dec 11 20:10:50 <javispedro> and probably H-A-M's "chicken-like" algorithms  would have complained sooner or latter
Dec 11 20:11:04 <RST38h> Is jeremiah around anyway?
Dec 11 20:16:33 <Pelap> Lol, preparing a video file before sharing=crash. Welcome to the future!!1
Dec 11 20:19:41 <Stskeeps> javispedro: libpulse is part of SDK, why is it in extras?
Dec 11 20:19:56 <slonopotamus> does microb hover mode work at all?
Dec 11 20:20:03 <red> the VNCViewer application
Dec 11 20:20:08 <javispedro> Stskeeps: yeah, sorry, wanted to ask the exact same question as you
Dec 11 20:20:15 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: yes, slide from left side of screen (a little outside)
Dec 11 20:20:16 <red> what kinda program do i need on my desk pc in order for it to work?
Dec 11 20:20:24 <red> (windows 7)
Dec 11 20:20:38 <Stskeeps> red: realvnc , tightvnc or the likes
Dec 11 20:20:43 <red> alright
Dec 11 20:20:58 <lcuk2> does windows 7 still support remote connections?
Dec 11 20:21:04 <slonopotamus> sts, it drags page
Dec 11 20:21:05 <Stskeeps> woo, my car charger works with my n900
Dec 11 20:21:20 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: hmm? a gentle gesture from left side turns it into cursor
Dec 11 20:21:24 <lcuk2> heh Stskeeps
Dec 11 20:21:26 <Ceron^> are there any nice ODB2 programs
Dec 11 20:21:27 <red> lcuk2: theres some remote desktop protocol atleast, i've it disabled thought
Dec 11 20:21:27 <Ceron^> for maemo
Dec 11 20:21:31 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: outside the visible area
Dec 11 20:21:34 <red> hope the vnc prog doesnt require it
Dec 11 20:21:39 <slonopotamus> ah, crap
Dec 11 20:21:44 <slonopotamus> you all lie
Dec 11 20:21:53 <lcuk2> i dont
Dec 11 20:21:56 <lcuk2> often
Dec 11 20:22:20 <hrw> re
Dec 11 20:22:23 <slonopotamus> you must drag at the bottom window porder
Dec 11 20:22:28 <red> slonopotamus: it works ok  i guess, bugs ALOT with flash (youtube for example)
Dec 11 20:22:29 <lcuk2> hey hrw
Dec 11 20:22:41 <red> but for other stuff i found it works ok
Dec 11 20:22:45 <slonopotamus> right where arrow image appears
Dec 11 20:22:57 <slonopotamus> i was dragging higher
Dec 11 20:23:05 <hrw> I wonder when each time when I use n900 I am finding new thigns to report in bugtracker
Dec 11 20:23:24 <lcuk2> hrw, we need a bugtracker app :)
Dec 11 20:23:30 <lcuk2> with live updating chat and stuff
Dec 11 20:24:27 <slonopotamus> try, it really doesn't appear if you drag higher than arrow
Dec 11 20:26:29 <slonopotamus> this is argh #3 after no intuitive way to switch kb and no syncml server support
Dec 11 20:26:52 <pupnik> [ Google demonstrates quantum computer image search - tech - 11 December 2009 - New Scientist ]  http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18272-google-demonstrates-quantum-computer-image-search.html
Dec 11 20:30:54 <red> Stskeeps: works alright, but is there any vnc (or similar solution) available which I could use for live image
Dec 11 20:31:11 <red> kinda like ultravnc videodriver/possibly streaming video onto the device
Dec 11 20:31:26 <red> now im not seeing my irssi window, nor kmplayer at all
Dec 11 20:31:32 <red> (and yes i enabled fullscreenpoll)
Dec 11 20:31:34 <melmoth> I m looking for a way to change the default timezone in the sdk.
Dec 11 20:31:57 <melmoth> i cannot find where to do that,i try regionnal settings and clock and date stuff
Dec 11 20:32:23 <melmoth> i can create a new world clock, buti need to have non gmt set as the default timezone, as it  s the case on the real device
Dec 11 20:34:03 <red> ohwell ill try the mirage driver
Dec 11 20:34:05 <melmoth> found it :)
Dec 11 20:34:19 * javispedro calls to skype echo test service... mic works
Dec 11 20:34:19 <melmoth> need to disable update automatically
Dec 11 20:38:16 <RST38h> Anyone can tell me the direct URL to FBreader source?
Dec 11 20:38:18 <red> Stskeeps: hmm. still no video image appearing even thought im hooked directly into display drivers mirror screen
Dec 11 20:38:29 <RST38h> The one that the package is built from?
Dec 11 20:38:33 <Arkenoi> seems that n900 does not show sms notification on headset display
Dec 11 20:39:16 <red> At
Dec 11 20:39:50 <Arkenoi> rst38h: i am going to write a brief n00b's faq on n900 in russian, should i include a link to fbreader fix there or should i expect it to be fixed in te main repository?
Dec 11 20:40:03 <Arkenoi> at, well
Dec 11 20:40:42 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Well, I want to make some modifications to the package. I have done them locally but cannot package from the sources I have got
Dec 11 20:40:49 <RST38h> So, it is too early
Dec 11 20:41:10 <red> fbreader fix?
Dec 11 20:41:41 <RST38h> Anyone willing to hint me to where I get Extras-Devel sources of fbreader and zlibrary?
Dec 11 20:41:41 <Arkenoi> red: mod to enable zoom keys to work as scroll
Dec 11 20:42:02 <Arkenoi> btw n900 lacks "fullscreen" key, is there a way to remap it so some key combo globally?
Dec 11 20:42:10 <RST38h> Arkenoi: I have done so
Dec 11 20:42:21 <RST38h> Arkenoi: My version reacts to Ctrl+Enter
Dec 11 20:42:27 <cosmo> does anyone still know how to get packages from extras-devel to extras?
Dec 11 20:42:36 <red> RST38h: would it be possible to disable the browser fullscreen icon aswell
Dec 11 20:42:44 <Arkenoi> RST38h, how to achieve that?
Dec 11 20:42:53 <red> its in the way of a certain websites fixedposition menu =)
Dec 11 20:42:55 <RST38h> Arkenoi: A few changes to fbreader config files
Dec 11 20:43:21 <RST38h> Arkenoi: need to add definitions for Ctrl key and modifier first, then say that Ctrl+Enter does togglefullscreen
Dec 11 20:43:23 <Arkenoi> RST38h, globally i mean not for fbreader only - there are many programs that look much better in fullscreen
Dec 11 20:43:31 <RST38h> ah, not globally, sorry
Dec 11 20:43:56 <Arkenoi> actually i remember most of them worked in fullscreen just fine if there was a key
Dec 11 20:44:02 <Arkenoi> rss reader, etc
Dec 11 20:44:34 <RST38h> ah found it
Dec 11 20:45:40 <red> I guess I'll just setup apache on my pc and download the video files etc which id like to stream.
Dec 11 20:45:54 <red> Most of my videos are 720p thought so it will be huge overhead compared to a streaming option
Dec 11 20:46:08 * RST38h will get qwerty's code and add some more stuff
Dec 11 20:48:53 <Arkenoi> RST38h, so answer to my question is..? ;-)
Dec 11 20:49:37 <RST38h> Arkenoi: do I know how to do it globally? No.
Dec 11 20:49:48 <RST38h> Do I have a new fbreader? Not yet
Dec 11 20:50:04 <Arkenoi> ok, so i include qwerty's fix into faq
Dec 11 20:50:46 <RST38h> how touching, qwerty made exactly the same fix as I did
Dec 11 20:58:18 <AbstractW> netsplits galore!
Dec 11 20:58:34 <RST38h> The Tentacled One is feasting on a transatlantic cable tonight!!!
Dec 11 20:59:53 <pupnik> :) Lovecraft had a fantastic imagination.
Dec 11 21:00:26 <Vulcanis_> nope
Dec 11 21:00:28 <Vulcanis_> he witnessed all of it.
Dec 11 21:00:40 <RST38h> Actually, 80% of the online Cthulhu memes are due to The Unspeakable Vault, not to Lovecraft
Dec 11 21:02:08 <hrw> bye
Dec 11 21:10:27 <red> jesus, setting up VLC as video on demand server is awful
Dec 11 21:10:50 <red> anyone have any suggestions what program would be suitable for windows, and would have a client on linux aswell? :P
Dec 11 21:11:40 <jkimball4> what's the number to get n900 fixed under warranty?
Dec 11 21:12:20 <jkimball4> still shutting off randomly.  don't feel like messing with their site
Dec 11 21:12:59 <pupnik> red, it is pretty gross.  Windows has some other options (orb, upnp).  For streaming video from my pc to N900/N810 i use 'knots2'
Dec 11 21:13:25 <red> pupnik: i used to use a software called airvideo
Dec 11 21:14:12 <red> did a great job on iphone, encode on fly to specified resolution, or encode first and play then etc (depending on how badly my pc was on load or how big the file was.. 1080p takes some time to process for phone screen ^^)
Dec 11 21:14:35 <johnsu01> what's up with garage?
Dec 11 21:14:53 <wazd> back again
Dec 11 21:16:14 <red> pupnik: *facepalm* knots says for windows users download vlc
Dec 11 21:16:17 <red> sup with that :(
Dec 11 21:16:36 <pupnik> well it drives vlc for you
Dec 11 21:16:39 <red> ahh, it hooks up via vlc
Dec 11 21:16:41 <pupnik> so there's less fiddlingf
Dec 11 21:16:47 <red> ye i should have read further
Dec 11 21:16:52 <red> just raised a red flag heh
Dec 11 21:17:29 <pupnik> it is a nice clean straightforward solution imo
Dec 11 21:17:36 <pupnik> maybe just cause i saw it being developed
Dec 11 21:18:52 <RST38h> qwerty's fbreader source has got errors
Dec 11 21:18:55 <RST38h> weird
Dec 11 21:19:01 <RST38h> how did he compile?
Dec 11 21:19:19 <VDVsx> btw where's qwerty ??
Dec 11 21:19:35 <RST38h> it is friday night
Dec 11 21:19:44 <VDVsx> lol
Dec 11 21:19:50 <RST38h> the real question is not where qwerty is but why we are here
Dec 11 21:20:09 <VDVsx> because I got out on Saturdays :)
Dec 11 21:20:13 <VDVsx> *go
Dec 11 21:20:24 <RST38h> Analyst Claims iPhone Users Are Suffering From "Stockholm Syndrome"
Dec 11 21:20:32 <VDVsx> ~seen qwerty12
Dec 11 21:20:34 <infobot> qwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 8d 2h 56m 35s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'.
Dec 11 21:20:45 <VDVsx> humm, 8 days
Dec 11 21:20:47 <red> does it matter if my knots file is at progfiles\git\cmd\
Dec 11 21:20:51 <red> or does it have to be in c: root?
Dec 11 21:21:05 <Shapeshifter> huh. does america have software patents?
Dec 11 21:21:06 <clmntch> where are the .desktop files for the backgrouns?
Dec 11 21:21:13 <Shapeshifter> the US I mean
Dec 11 21:21:43 <wazd> yeah, I have the same question bout qwerty
Dec 11 21:21:49 <wazd> ~seen qwerty12
Dec 11 21:21:50 <infobot> qwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 8d 2h 57m 51s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'.
Dec 11 21:22:01 <woglinde> wazd yeah
Dec 11 21:22:10 <woglinde> wondered yesterday where he is
Dec 11 21:22:12 <ifreq> is there any openvpn configurator around?
Dec 11 21:22:32 <redeeman> clmntch: in the folder where the images also are
Dec 11 21:22:54 <clmntch> hrm
Dec 11 21:25:07 <wazd> ~seen qwerty12_n900
Dec 11 21:25:08 <infobot> qwerty12_n900 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9d 5h 35m ago, saying: 'w00t: If it makes you happy, I have a picture of my N800, N810, and "my" N900 on a desk. Urge to kill rising?'.
Dec 11 21:25:20 <wazd> aw
Dec 11 21:26:28 <VDVsx> he's active in talk, so lardman|home or lcuk didn't killed him yet
Dec 11 21:29:38 <melmoth> does somebody know the difference between calendar file type: VCAL and ICAL ?
Dec 11 21:29:52 <woglinde> is garage up again?
Dec 11 21:30:27 <fnordianslip> doesn't look like it
Dec 11 21:31:06 <fnordianslip> wonder who's maintaining it at this time of night
Dec 11 21:31:16 <red> pupnik: im at the webgui now
Dec 11 21:31:23 <red> and i must say the program looks promising
Dec 11 21:31:31 <red> audio streaming too, which is very good :)
Dec 11 21:31:54 <red> this means i can actually stream my music at school without eating up my phone battery :)
Dec 11 21:33:07 <red> mmh, a problem actually
Dec 11 21:33:24 <pupnik> red, let ukki know if you like it please
Dec 11 21:33:24 <red> added a folder, and clicked update -- internal server error and access forbidden for my d:\ -drive
Dec 11 21:33:27 <pupnik> ah?
Dec 11 21:33:48 <red> actually D:/System Volume Information
Dec 11 21:33:51 <red> which is a hidden folder
Dec 11 21:34:03 <red> got my vids in the root of d:\ as its a dedicated video drive
Dec 11 21:34:14 <red> can i set it to skip hidden files on a scan?
Dec 11 21:34:26 <pupnik> i tell it what folders i want to share
Dec 11 21:34:35 <pupnik> those folders contain what i want to share
Dec 11 21:34:48 <pupnik> the things i don't want to share, i don't tell knots2 to share
Dec 11 21:35:16 <red> i guess i could move them one folder upwards
Dec 11 21:35:33 <pupnik> what behavior would you prefer red?
Dec 11 21:35:48 <pupnik> just ignore hidden directories?
Dec 11 21:36:08 <pupnik> should be a quick fix
Dec 11 21:36:08 <red> well, you hardly have videos in hidden folders :)
Dec 11 21:36:20 <red> but i poked the vids 1 level upwards in a empty dir so its np
Dec 11 21:39:00 <melmoth> et pas de probleme depuis ?
Dec 11 21:39:01 <melmoth> oups
Dec 11 21:40:29 <|R> any reasons why iNes would be slow on my n900? (while drnoksnes runs fast)
Dec 11 21:40:35 <|R> Nothing else is running...
Dec 11 21:42:29 <|R> also ioquake3 doesn't have an icon and just keep loading forever ...
Dec 11 21:45:20 <red> pupnik: so report any suggestions to ukko?
Dec 11 21:45:27 <red> ukki*
Dec 11 21:49:06 <pupnik> he da man!
Dec 11 21:50:25 <pupnik> |R: emulators shoul get around 20 fps as things stand.  Hopefully that can be fixed.
Dec 11 21:50:25 <pupnik> But don't be impatient for it
Dec 11 21:53:47 <pwnguin> is it possible to "dock" via usb?
Dec 11 21:54:13 <pwnguin> obviously power, but im wondering about network and sound (maybe video?)
Dec 11 21:56:51 * RST38h found how to package goddamn fbreader
Dec 11 21:56:51 <Klowner> debating an invisible shield
Dec 11 21:56:51 <RST38h> nothing to debate, get it
Dec 11 21:56:51 <Klowner> RST38h: not too weird with the stylus or anything?
Dec 11 21:56:51 <RST38h> no idea, but you probably do not want to scratch the display
Dec 11 21:56:58 <Klowner> true, I should say I'm debating between cheapo plastic screen protector and an expensive InvisibleShield brand fancypants one
Dec 11 21:56:58 <Klowner> considering how scratched up the protector on my blackberry has become over the past year, I certainly need *something* on the N900
Dec 11 21:57:26 <Arkenoi> Sorry for the inconvenience. garage has a maintenance break.
Dec 11 21:57:26 <Arkenoi> fuck!
Dec 11 21:57:26 * RST38h laughs satanically
Dec 11 21:57:26 <evo> hello, has anyone experienced troubles with mp3 tags and multimedia player?
Dec 11 21:57:48 <konttori> hmm.. is it just me, or does python seem non-optified again?
Dec 11 21:58:47 <VDVsx> konttori, the one in extras and -testing is not optified, at least last time I checked
Dec 11 21:58:47 <VDVsx> only the one in -devel is
Dec 11 21:59:47 <andre__> evo, how do you mean? examples? well, it's not bugfree :-P
Dec 11 22:00:43 <konttori> so, how do we get it to extras?
Dec 11 22:00:43 <RST38h> konttori: vote for it 10 times? =)
Dec 11 22:00:43 <pwnguin> what's the advantage of optification?
Dec 11 22:00:43 <konttori> won't help because the opt version is not in testing
Dec 11 22:00:43 <pwnguin> preservation across reflashing?
Dec 11 22:00:43 <RST38h> konttori: and vote 10 times for every update to it no matter how minor?
Dec 11 22:00:48 <VDVsx> konttori, you can ask someone with permissions for do that, like marcell or x-fade
Dec 11 22:00:51 <konttori> optification helps spare precious rootfs space
Dec 11 22:01:30 <konttori> hmm... marcell it is then on monday
Dec 11 22:02:05 <konttori> we are going to push more and more content to the device, and space is at premium
Dec 11 22:02:25 <jaem> did Nokia give a reason for the way they structured the flash?
Dec 11 22:02:37 <VDVsx> konttori, optify that new "content" :D
Dec 11 22:02:46 <jaem> I think I can see why, but from a user's standpoint, it seems rather pessimal
Dec 11 22:02:49 <mihu> Hi. On the N900, is there some menu item to show your own number? I have looked for it, but found none. At least it's not under Settings -> Telephone.
Dec 11 22:02:52 <RST38h> jaem: what would you like this reason to be?
Dec 11 22:02:53 <evo> andre__: case sensitive issues, I have ten albums of the same artist
Dec 11 22:03:01 <VDVsx> jaem, windows coufh coufh
Dec 11 22:03:28 <red> mihu: like u wanna set up ur own info alltogether
Dec 11 22:03:34 <red> or just check what ur phone number currently is?
Dec 11 22:03:36 <jaem> RST38h, if I could pick their reason, I would just pick one that would have been shot down ;)  I was wondering what *their* reason was
Dec 11 22:03:52 <evo> andre__: 9 went in the same "folder", one not .. multimedia player sees it as it was all UPPERCASE, but I checked everything
Dec 11 22:03:56 <red> havent found one to see the number, but there was own info tab somewhere, where you could add contact infos etc
Dec 11 22:03:58 <mihu> red: Just want to check my own phone number that is associated to this SIM.
Dec 11 22:04:04 <andre__> evo, uh
Dec 11 22:04:05 <jaem> mihu, not sure, as I don't have a SIM in mine, but there should be a way to do it, even if it isn't exposed in the UI
Dec 11 22:04:12 <konttori> jaem: to be honest, it just ended up structured as it is - multitude of reasons, but none to really say that that's the reason
Dec 11 22:04:14 <jaem> mihu, oh wait - give me a moment
Dec 11 22:04:21 <RST38h> jaem: I just do not see what is "wrong" with the layout
Dec 11 22:04:21 <jaem> konttori, fair enough
Dec 11 22:04:41 <evo> andre__: I can send you one of those mp3s, if you want to check
Dec 11 22:04:48 <jaem> RST38h, nothing's wrong with the layout, per se, but 256MB roofs and thus the need for optification just seems messy
Dec 11 22:04:53 <konttori> the 2 gig home we just figured is enough. Looks like it is.
Dec 11 22:04:59 <RST38h> oh that
Dec 11 22:04:59 <jaem> yeah, it is
Dec 11 22:05:01 <jaem> but it's messy
Dec 11 22:05:07 <jaem> -shrug-
Dec 11 22:05:08 <konttori> and we didn't want to steam more from the normally mountable emmc partitions
Dec 11 22:05:13 <jaem> it works, that's fine
Dec 11 22:05:13 <RST38h> jaem: rootfs is on its own chip, that chip has 256MB of ROM
Dec 11 22:05:16 <konttori> it's messy all right.
Dec 11 22:05:18 <jaem> RST38h, yes, I know
Dec 11 22:05:21 <red> having to separately click update for all software installed
Dec 11 22:05:22 <red> pff
Dec 11 22:05:22 <jaem> that ws my point
Dec 11 22:05:39 <RST38h> jaem: so, you want a reason why 256MB chip was used?
Dec 11 22:05:45 <jaem> red, menu -> update all
Dec 11 22:05:52 <konttori> red, I'm going to get HAM changed to have multiselect in the updates view.
Dec 11 22:05:55 <andre__> evo, oh yeah, feel free to :)
Dec 11 22:05:56 <jaem> RST38h, I was curious, but it's not terribly important
Dec 11 22:05:59 <VDVsx> jaem, no need to optification in most of the cases, just build the packages to install everything into /opt
Dec 11 22:06:03 <|R> pupnik: ok, strange though that SNES is at full speed and NES isnt, i was just wondering, q3 is running too now (forgot the pak :P)
Dec 11 22:06:09 <|R> :)
Dec 11 22:06:11 <evo> andre__: dcc send is OK for you?
Dec 11 22:06:13 <konttori> RST38h: 256 was pretty much the only available at the time of deciding on HW
Dec 11 22:06:19 <jaem> VDVsx, sorry, wrong terminology - that's what I meant
Dec 11 22:06:20 <jaem> konttori, ah, okay
Dec 11 22:06:28 <andre__> evo, email to aklapper at openismus dot com is better :)
Dec 11 22:06:30 <RST38h> konttori: Yea, I know, that convinient Samsung combo chip?
Dec 11 22:06:40 <evo> andre__: agreed :)
Dec 11 22:06:43 <VDVsx> jaem, maemo-optify is for lazy folks :P
Dec 11 22:06:45 <konttori> well, HW was decided long time ago.
Dec 11 22:06:45 <pupnik> |R: when i tested snes i got about 22fps, not full speed.
Dec 11 22:06:46 * VDVsx hides
Dec 11 22:06:50 <konttori> and not by SW guys
Dec 11 22:07:03 <jaem> konttori, when you click Update All in HAM, it gives you the disclaimer, but shows the details of the first package, as if that was the only one
Dec 11 22:07:05 <jaem> was that intended?
Dec 11 22:07:06 <konttori> maemo-optify is definitely for the lazy
Dec 11 22:07:25 <|R> pupnik: well, i mean, perceived speed, no laggy sound or play :)
Dec 11 22:07:35 <konttori> jaem: that should probably be fixed as well at the same time
Dec 11 22:07:45 <pupnik> please don't make us click 'ok' for each package jaem :)
Dec 11 22:07:53 <jaem> pupnik, I didn't mean that
Dec 11 22:07:56 <|R> pupnik: playing life force on the nes is really awkward ... but on my ex-n810 it was fine i think, that's why i'm surprise, but i'll be patient, i was just wondering if i had missed an option :)
Dec 11 22:07:57 <VDVsx> pupnik,  +1
Dec 11 22:08:01 <pupnik> yeah :)
Dec 11 22:08:16 <jaem> I meant that it should give summary info in that dialog, rather than saying "Update All", and then showing you name/version/whatever for only one
Dec 11 22:08:28 <jaem> or remove that bit entirely
Dec 11 22:08:31 <jaem> it's just confusing as-is
Dec 11 22:08:38 <pupnik> |R i don't want to start whining about the reasons for it.  Just know that they are known reasons, and are being looked at.
Dec 11 22:08:42 <fnordianslip> is there an easy way to rip out the man pages when being lazy and using optify?
Dec 11 22:09:04 <VDVsx> fnordianslip, edit your rules file
Dec 11 22:09:20 <pwnguin> i kinda wish debian had a solution to breaking out manpages & translations
Dec 11 22:09:25 <|R> pupnik: cool! :)
Dec 11 22:09:34 <pwnguin> sometimes i _want_ that manpage
Dec 11 22:09:45 <pwnguin> or documentation
Dec 11 22:09:57 <pwnguin> or changelog
Dec 11 22:09:59 <red> any page that has listed good applications btw? apart from maemo select
Dec 11 22:10:01 <pupnik> do you want a manpages package for extras?
Dec 11 22:10:01 <jaem> hmm... libqt4-maemo5-* doesn't come with the qt3support package
Dec 11 22:10:07 <jaem> I guess I'll have to build that myself?
Dec 11 22:10:14 <pupnik> for, say, basic busybox and unix commands
Dec 11 22:10:21 <evo> andre__: meanwhile, a brief question :) ... do you think that bug #5634 could be fixed with new firmware?
Dec 11 22:10:21 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5634 Deleted IMAP messages are not expunged
Dec 11 22:10:27 <pwnguin> heh
Dec 11 22:10:27 <pwnguin> actually i'd rather have bash
Dec 11 22:10:37 <jaem> pwnguin, agreed
Dec 11 22:10:37 <pwnguin> and autocomplete ;)
Dec 11 22:10:41 <ifreq> please tell me, is there cisco 3000 vpn client for maemo5?
Dec 11 22:10:48 <pupnik> ctrl-i autocompletes here
Dec 11 22:11:04 <pupnik> ifreq: you got an open-source one to port to maemo5?
Dec 11 22:11:08 <VDVsx> pupnik, a simple GUI app with commands would be useful for some people
Dec 11 22:11:11 <jaem> mihu, sorry - I forgot my N900 is plugged into the server in the other room - I can't check for you right now
Dec 11 22:11:16 <pwnguin> tab autocompletes but bash autocompletion has a powerful context engine
Dec 11 22:11:23 <evo> andre__: email sent, thanks in advance!
Dec 11 22:11:43 <pupnik> oh yeah, when did that get added.  One year bash started knowing what file types my applications played.
Dec 11 22:11:46 <ifreq> pupnik: well afaik vpnc would do ok., but its not on repos
Dec 11 22:12:10 <pwnguin> pupnik: bash autocomplete's been around for ages
Dec 11 22:12:15 <mihu> jaem: Ok. Will try to find it out or ask later again.
Dec 11 22:12:16 <jaem> pupnik, it's all scripts, I believe, and where some of them come from depends on your distro
Dec 11 22:12:28 <RST38h> A'ok. Page buttons now work
Dec 11 22:12:29 <jaem> mihu, actually, heck - I can go unplug it ow
Dec 11 22:12:31 <jaem> give me a moment
Dec 11 22:12:32 <woglinde> ifreq package it
Dec 11 22:12:36 <pwnguin> debian / ubuntu just enabled them by default some time ago
Dec 11 22:12:38 <wazd> Patent wars at last
Dec 11 22:12:53 <jaem> hi wazd
Dec 11 22:13:01 <woglinde> ifreq just take the debian package and run it on sdk for building
Dec 11 22:13:10 <pwnguin> pupnik: its' better than that, you can autocomplete options too, like apt-get in<tab> to get install
Dec 11 22:13:12 <pupnik> http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~massar/vpnc/vpnc-0.5.3.tar.gz  ifreq that it?  i dont see a list ofdependencies on the hp
Dec 11 22:13:18 <ifreq> aha ok, wonder why no one hasnt do it then allrdy
Dec 11 22:13:28 <wazd> jaem: heya
Dec 11 22:13:35 <woglinde> ifreq nobody needed
Dec 11 22:13:47 <woglinde> wpa2 solved a lot of thinks
Dec 11 22:13:53 <woglinde> things
Dec 11 22:13:57 <ifreq> thats strange , gotta check it out then
Dec 11 22:13:59 <RST38h> To ALL: Could someone remind me what loops I have to jump through to make Maemo5 drop coredumps?
Dec 11 22:14:02 <jaem> wazd, do you still have link to that "TI-84+ Hello Kitty Edition" skin you made as a joke ;)
Dec 11 22:14:07 <jaem> I wanted to show it to someone
Dec 11 22:14:12 <mgedmin> hey, was the garage downtime announced somewhere/
Dec 11 22:14:14 <pwnguin> RST38h: /etc/limits.conf?
Dec 11 22:14:22 <woglinde> mgedmin nope
Dec 11 22:14:25 <RST38h> hmmm...lemme try
Dec 11 22:14:26 <wazd> jaem: yeah
Dec 11 22:14:34 <woglinde> mgedmin thats why the nokia people arent around here
Dec 11 22:14:36 <mgedmin> RST38h, in older maemos it was mkdir /media/mmc2/core-dumps/
Dec 11 22:14:43 <woglinde> because they try to fix it I guess
Dec 11 22:14:49 <mgedmin> did somebody lob a tactical nuke on their data center?
Dec 11 22:15:04 <jaem> mgedmin, pfft, get a real data center
Dec 11 22:15:05 <jaem> bunker!
Dec 11 22:15:06 <mgedmin> hahahahahahahaha
Dec 11 22:15:10 <mgedmin> ~ $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern
Dec 11 22:15:11 <fnordianslip> VDVsx: i tried giving a path like --mandir=/dev/null to configure in the rules file, but dpkg doesn't like that, so wondered if there was an easier way than patching the makefile
Dec 11 22:15:13 <mgedmin> on a n900
Dec 11 22:15:27 <jaem> mgedmin, actually, my uni has a bunker underneath it :P
Dec 11 22:15:35 <mgedmin> prints "/what/me/worry"
Dec 11 22:16:13 <mgedmin> RST38h, I'd try echo core |sudo tee /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern; ulimit -c unlimited; run-app-that-crashes
Dec 11 22:16:20 <mgedmin> or go search in a wiki or something
Dec 11 22:16:35 <mgedmin> maybe echo -n core, actually
Dec 11 22:16:57 <RST38h> mgedmin: I have that dir
Dec 11 22:17:08 <wazd> jaem: http://i059.radikal.ru/0912/02/5f4baa8fbaf5.jpg
Dec 11 22:17:15 <jaem> wazd, -grin- thanks
Dec 11 22:17:44 <jaem> wazd, I presume I can just swap that out somewhere in /usr/share ?
Dec 11 22:17:55 <wazd> jaem: ask RST38h :D
Dec 11 22:18:02 <red> pupnik: how do i run the server so that the cmd window gets hidden on launch?
Dec 11 22:18:06 <wazd> jaem: I'm not sure that Ti-84 is released though
Dec 11 22:18:08 <andre__> wazd, must...! have...!
Dec 11 22:18:33 <ifreq> mgedmin: ah must be blind. there seems to be vpnc vpnc-gui on dev
Dec 11 22:18:34 <jaem> wazd, right, I was forgetting that it wouldn't be that easy
Dec 11 22:18:37 <jaem> heh
Dec 11 22:18:41 <ifreq> gotta check how good they work
Dec 11 22:18:45 <jaem> I don't have an 84+ ROM, so no go there
Dec 11 22:18:49 <konttori> http://matin.maapallo.org/site.pl/selain/?c=smbc&i=868
Dec 11 22:18:51 * mgedmin is wondering why ifreq is telling him that
Dec 11 22:19:00 <wazd> jaem: yeah. that's why it's not implemented yet :)
Dec 11 22:19:12 <ifreq> mgedmin: me2 :) ment to woglinde
Dec 11 22:19:20 <jaem> oh, it's not even implemented
Dec 11 22:19:26 <mgedmin> ah, you typed an upside-down w!
Dec 11 22:19:28 <jaem> ah... I thought it was just disabled unless you had your own
Dec 11 22:20:06 * RST38h checks
Dec 11 22:21:00 <jaem> so... I was writing a C++ exam yesterday, on 4.5hrs of sleep, and I went to write an uppercase const, and for a moment got confused about the lack of a CAPSLock key on my pen :S
Dec 11 22:21:08 <jaem> sigh
Dec 11 22:21:11 <Dr_Cain> X)
Dec 11 22:21:12 <Klowner> bahahah
Dec 11 22:21:16 <Dr_Cain> coding on paper is horrible
Dec 11 22:21:20 <Klowner> nobody uses a capslock!
Dec 11 22:21:25 <Dr_Cain> especially when you want to insert stuff between lines
Dec 11 22:21:33 <pupnik> red: not sure - that sounds like a windows thing.
Dec 11 22:21:49 <jaem> Dr_Cain, yes, but have you tried ASM on paper, and then hand-assembling from a reference book, and typing it into a dev board on a hex keypad?
Dec 11 22:21:54 <jaem> now *that's* painful
Dec 11 22:22:13 <jaem> my prof kept telling us he'd get the computers up and running, but somehow it never happend
Dec 11 22:22:23 * pupnik remembers hours of wire-wrap
Dec 11 22:22:26 <jaem> in his defense, that wasn't really his job, but stilll... painful
Dec 11 22:22:35 <Dr_Cain> :D
Dec 11 22:23:13 <Dr_Cain> now, how to get strace on there
Dec 11 22:23:24 <pupnik> Dr_Cain: i used to code on paper in junior high school.  Didn't have my own computer, so i had to do my thinking beforehand :)
Dec 11 22:23:33 <pupnik> you know, kids stuff... gotos.
Dec 11 22:23:44 <RST38h> Ahhahahahaha
Dec 11 22:23:46 <Dr_Cain> you get a slap on the wrist is you use gotos today :D
Dec 11 22:23:47 <pupnik> but great practice
Dec 11 22:23:51 <RST38h> FBReader uses...eeek....STL
Dec 11 22:23:59 <Dr_Cain> :O
Dec 11 22:24:05 <RST38h> fail.
Dec 11 22:24:07 <pupnik> yeah, i found out who wrote the BASIC on our commodore pets in school
Dec 11 22:24:11 <pupnik> ... Bill
Dec 11 22:24:14 <jaem> pupnik, real programmers use COME FROM
Dec 11 22:24:19 <Dr_Cain> X)
Dec 11 22:24:41 <pupnik> i seem to recall jz and jnz still being used
Dec 11 22:24:41 <mgedmin> STL is kinda nice
Dec 11 22:24:49 <mgedmin> as much as it's possible for C++ to be nice
Dec 11 22:24:59 <mgedmin> you have to admire the people who designed and implemented it
Dec 11 22:25:02 <jaem> mgedmin, meh... C++ isn't pretty, but with something like Qt, it's decent
Dec 11 22:25:09 <mgedmin> kinda like building a bridge out of toothpicks
Dec 11 22:25:15 <jaem> in its class, it's my favorite
Dec 11 22:25:18 <Dr_Cain> it's nice, but the error messages you can get.. whoa
Dec 11 22:25:31 <mgedmin> the error messages can get truncated after the first 1024 characters
Dec 11 22:25:33 <jaem> I was somewhat confused though, when a friend told me that he didn't like C++, but did like C... and Java
Dec 11 22:25:35 <jaem> lol
Dec 11 22:25:41 <mgedmin> that kind gave me the first indication all's not well with C++
Dec 11 22:25:56 <mgedmin> used to be my favouritest language once
Dec 11 22:26:09 <pwnguin> Klowner: looks like amazon carries invisibleshield products. but not for n900 =(
Dec 11 22:26:10 <mgedmin> read lots of books, knew most of the gotchas
Dec 11 22:26:12 <RST38h> STL is a nest of fail
Dec 11 22:26:22 <mgedmin> which was the second indication: you have to know all the gotchas, or a land mine will make your code explode
Dec 11 22:26:44 <inz> I started "real programming" with C++, but when I learned the beauty of C, I went there
Dec 11 22:27:01 <inz> And rarely look back
Dec 11 22:27:20 * mgedmin went the other direction: to Python
Dec 11 22:27:23 <Klowner> pwnguin: ya, you can get em from zagg.com though.. full body ones are $25 though :/
Dec 11 22:27:32 * woglinde makes all
Dec 11 22:27:36 <pupnik> inz: can you find words that describe why?
Dec 11 22:27:43 <woglinde> even java on n900
Dec 11 22:27:49 <pwnguin> Klowner: amazon discounts them, and free shipping
Dec 11 22:27:50 <mgedmin> hm, do we need #maemo-languages?
Dec 11 22:28:06 <inz> pupnik, my nick is shortened version of inzane. 'nuff said.
Dec 11 22:28:09 <jaem> inz, I prefer you don't mean "literal" beauty?  Neither C or C++ are terribly pretty languages
Dec 11 22:28:15 <RST38h> mgedmin: There is a way to use C++ without knowing the gotchas
Dec 11 22:28:28 <RST38h> mgedmin: You simply have to ignore the hairy stuff
Dec 11 22:28:37 <woglinde> beer now
Dec 11 22:28:48 <inz> jaem, ...the eye of the beholder... ;)
Dec 11 22:28:59 <mgedmin> anybody uses screen on n900?
Dec 11 22:29:05 <woglinde> than back trying to convert gl app to gles
Dec 11 22:29:10 <jaem> mgedmin, on-device, no.  via ssh, all the time
Dec 11 22:29:16 <pupnik> mgedmin: i run my screen session on the pc
Dec 11 22:29:26 <inz> pupnik, with C I know what I'm doing. I guess I'm too stupid for "more advanced" languages
Dec 11 22:29:31 <mgedmin> the "via ssh" is a bit unclear: you can ssh from the device, or to the device
Dec 11 22:29:32 <Klowner> mgedmin: return-key issues?
Dec 11 22:29:49 <jaem> mgedmin, sorry, ssh'ing to a screen session on a remote server
Dec 11 22:30:04 <mgedmin> nah, wanted to share my fix for the "Cannot make directory '/var/run/screen': Permission denied" issue aka bug 5730
Dec 11 22:30:04 <pwnguin> mgedmin: its you europeans. it irssi+screen works for me :P
Dec 11 22:30:06 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5730 screen should mkdir /var/run/screen on startup
Dec 11 22:30:17 <pupnik> inz: that is *exactly* how i felt in 1990 when everyone started going off on C++ vs ObjC
Dec 11 22:30:28 <pupnik> or 1991 or smth
Dec 11 22:31:06 <pupnik> turns out different models are suited to different tasks.
Dec 11 22:32:19 <woglinde> pupnik hm oh I always tough objc was later
Dec 11 22:32:28 <woglinde> args thought
Dec 11 22:32:48 <RST38h> fuck, I hate STL
Dec 11 22:33:20 <jaem> hmm... Facebook popped up a message on login telling me they've added more privacy "features"... why does this make me suspect they've made it worse... :S
Dec 11 22:33:22 * RST38h looks up the name of the guy who invented STL and makes a special plea to the Tentacled One
Dec 11 22:33:39 <VDVsx> RST38h, the c++ template lib ?
Dec 11 22:33:44 <RST38h> yea
Dec 11 22:34:12 <mgedmin> I once read an interview with the guy who invented STL
Dec 11 22:34:14 <mgedmin> he's a genius
Dec 11 22:34:20 <RST38h> VDVsx: In FBReader, some super-templated vector destructor is being called, it somehow calls dialogbuilder destructor, which calls an extra free() which crashes
Dec 11 22:34:27 <mgedmin> sadly, only a genius can use it
Dec 11 22:34:39 <woglinde> hm
Dec 11 22:34:41 <woglinde> http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Introduction_to_OpenGL_ES
Dec 11 22:34:46 <woglinde> its s60 but who cares
Dec 11 22:34:47 <RST38h> Alexander Stepanov
Dec 11 22:34:50 <evo> jaem: they did, double check everything ... now they force everyone to share something (ie. profile pic, friends list etc.) with everyone
Dec 11 22:35:02 * RST38h asks the Tentacled One to feast on Alexander Stepanov slowly and painfully
Dec 11 22:35:27 <jaem> evo, gah... maybe I'll finally kill the account then... as much as they allow
Dec 11 22:35:33 <mgedmin> RST38h, some implicit compiler-defined copy constructor that shares the pointer inadvertently?
Dec 11 22:35:34 <jaem> I only keep it for the odd event invite and such
Dec 11 22:36:02 <RST38h> To slowly drain him of the remainders of his sanity, converting him into a seventh day adventist or some other equally dull and pointless mania
Dec 11 22:36:10 <VDVsx> RST38h, can people just use the standard stuff, why use such stuff :P
Dec 11 22:36:16 <RST38h> mgedmin: I have no idea.
Dec 11 22:36:33 <RST38h> mgedmin: All I see is that the code almost entirely consists of < and > characters
Dec 11 22:36:35 <pupnik> In 1988, NeXT licensed Objective-C from StepSton
Dec 11 22:36:37 <pupnik> e
Dec 11 22:36:45 <red> pupnik: mm.. cannot access the mediaserver outside of the server pc
Dec 11 22:36:51 <woglinde> rst wasnt it develop under sgi?
Dec 11 22:36:53 <red> just says unable to connect, even tried with no firewall up
Dec 11 22:37:04 <RST38h> woglinde: one of implementations was
Dec 11 22:37:11 <RST38h> VDVsx: It is psychology
Dec 11 22:37:12 <red> any suggestions
Dec 11 22:37:33 <mece> TO my astonishment it turns out the N900 can record clear sound at a rock concert :D
Dec 11 22:37:35 <pupnik> red - try on local net first. that is only usecase i tried
Dec 11 22:37:44 <RST38h> VDVsx: People tend to stick to an idea like "This framework will help us write a better code"
Dec 11 22:37:49 <VDVsx> RST38h, ohhh, C is so scary :P
Dec 11 22:37:51 <woglinde> mece you violate dmca
Dec 11 22:37:59 <woglinde> prepare for punishment
Dec 11 22:38:05 * VDVsx actually thinks that C is the boogieman itself :P
Dec 11 22:38:18 <mece> woglinde, que?
Dec 11 22:38:30 <RST38h> VDVsx: And they do not fucking let the idea go, even after it becomes painfully obvious that they spend 75% of time solving the problems caused by the use of that framework
Dec 11 22:38:36 <red> pupnik: actually i could connect with my netbook
Dec 11 22:38:39 <red> but not with N900
Dec 11 22:38:41 <red> just tested
Dec 11 22:38:49 <jaem> woglinde, encrypt the audio from the concert speaker!
Dec 11 22:38:55 <red> ill reboot phone and retry
Dec 11 22:39:02 <jaem> make people wear special, proprietary, $600 headphones to listen
Dec 11 22:39:07 <jaem> that'll teach 'em ;)
Dec 11 22:39:08 <jaem> heh
Dec 11 22:39:24 <ext3mount> anyone know how to mount an ext3 on n810?
Dec 11 22:39:29 <RST38h> VDVsx: Seen that many times, with C++ overloaded <</>>, then with templates, STL, Java, XML, etc etc
Dec 11 22:39:48 <woglinde> ext3mount you put ext3 on sd-card?
Dec 11 22:39:55 <ext3mount> woglinde: yes
Dec 11 22:40:04 <woglinde> prepare for failure within 6 months
Dec 11 22:40:15 <pupnik> red are you using knots2 client on n900 or the webbrowser?
Dec 11 22:40:24 <ext3mount> woglinde: ok, that doesn't stop the problem of getting ext3 mounted
Dec 11 22:40:28 <jaem> ext3mount, woglinde has a point, but if you really want to know...
Dec 11 22:40:33 <jaem> you need to load the modules manually
Dec 11 22:40:43 <ext3mount> jaem: nooooo, thats what i thought
Dec 11 22:40:56 <ext3mount> can i put easydebian on a fat16 or fat32?
Dec 11 22:41:02 <jaem> ext3mount, you could probably put them in modprobe.conf, or whatever Maemo uses
Dec 11 22:41:07 <red> pupnik: webbrowser
Dec 11 22:41:09 <jaem> ext3mount, yes, the image is only 1.5GB
Dec 11 22:41:10 <woglinde> ext3mount use ext3
Dec 11 22:41:14 <woglinde> args ext2
Dec 11 22:41:15 <red> thought its via that since i didnt see a client in the programs list
Dec 11 22:41:17 <woglinde> I meant
Dec 11 22:41:40 <ext3mount> jaem: i need the image to be 3 gb, not 1.5 or 1.2 gb, ext2 failed to make the file larger than 2 GB
Dec 11 22:42:03 <jaem> ext3mount, hrm... ext2 can be used for larger images
Dec 11 22:42:09 <jaem> were you building your own image, then?
Dec 11 22:42:31 <ext3mount> jaem: no, dumping the *root.tar.gz file from qole onto the image after mounting
Dec 11 22:42:45 <jaem> ext3mount, hmm... odd
Dec 11 22:42:58 <jaem> and you just made the image the usual way?  dd + mkfs ?
Dec 11 22:43:04 <ext3mount> jaem: yep
Dec 11 22:43:29 <ext3mount> jaem: but ext2 wouldn't allow an image larger than 2 GB
Dec 11 22:43:37 <jaem> odd...
Dec 11 22:43:43 <jaem> unless I'm crazy
Dec 11 22:43:47 <ext3mount> jaem: thats what i thought
Dec 11 22:43:58 <jaem> ext3mount, that I'm crazy?  jerk :P
Dec 11 22:44:00 <jaem> hey, has anyone seen qole around?
Dec 11 22:44:02 <ext3mount> lol
Dec 11 22:44:13 <ext3mount> i meant the odd part
Dec 11 22:44:14 <ifreq> can someone recommend a good disk space widget?
Dec 11 22:44:32 <jaem> ifreq, wrap some python around df? :P
Dec 11 22:44:35 <jaem> other than that, no
Dec 11 22:44:38 <ifreq> heh
Dec 11 22:45:10 <jaem> ifreq, homediskfree (or whatever it was called) might be portable
Dec 11 22:45:26 <ifreq> allrighty
Dec 11 22:45:42 <ifreq> just got work vpnc (cisco3000) working <3 gotta love this
Dec 11 22:45:54 <woglinde> ifreq cool
Dec 11 22:47:31 <ext3mount> jaem: i wonder why qmount doesn't support ext3?
Dec 11 22:47:44 <jaem> ext3mount, never used it
Dec 11 22:47:50 <jaem> does normal mount not work?
Dec 11 22:48:08 <ext3mount> jaem: nope
Dec 11 22:48:14 <ext3mount> jaem: not with ext3
Dec 11 22:48:29 <jaem> ext3mount, why not?
Dec 11 22:48:31 <jaem> I've done it
Dec 11 22:48:43 <ext3mount> jaem: i guess the ext3 was removed from maemo on n810
Dec 11 22:48:50 <jaem> ext3mount, no, it's there
Dec 11 22:48:55 <jaem> but as I said, you have to load the modules
Dec 11 22:48:58 <jaem> use insmod
Dec 11 22:49:10 <jaem> you'll need mbcache, jbd (in some order), and then ext3
Dec 11 22:49:32 <ext3mount> jaem: what are the commands in terminal to load the modules?
Dec 11 22:49:41 <jaem> um
Dec 11 22:49:43 <jaem> one sec
Dec 11 22:49:46 * jaem pulls out his N810
Dec 11 22:49:51 <ext3mount> ok, thanx
Dec 11 22:50:19 <ext3mount> can i get them to start on startup too, that would be a plus
Dec 11 22:50:51 <jaem> ext3mount, insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/mbcache.ko
Dec 11 22:51:04 <jaem> and repeat for jbd.ko and ext3.ko, in the same directory
Dec 11 22:51:07 <jaem> you'll need root
Dec 11 22:51:17 <jaem> and as for startup, probably, but I'm not sure how Diablo does that
Dec 11 22:51:20 <jaem> ask around
Dec 11 22:51:24 <jaem> maybe modprobe
Dec 11 22:51:26 <jaem> .conf
Dec 11 22:51:50 <ext3mount> jaem: im getting errors on the first
Dec 11 22:52:03 <ext3mount> jaem: a file exists error
Dec 11 22:52:19 <jaem> ext3mount, okay, just continue with the rest
Dec 11 22:52:25 <jaem> ...I think
Dec 11 22:52:30 <jaem> haven't done it in a while
Dec 11 22:52:44 <ext3mount> yeah, on all of them, a cannot insert because file exists error
Dec 11 22:52:55 <jaem> huh... sounds like they're already there, then
Dec 11 22:53:10 <jaem> try mount -t ext3 -o loop /path/to/image /path/to/mountpoint
Dec 11 22:53:13 <ext3mount> i tried rebooting and it still didn't detect the ext3
Dec 11 22:53:22 <ext3mount> let me try that, one sec
Dec 11 22:53:31 <jaem> you need to manually specify the fstype
Dec 11 22:54:08 <ext3mount> jaem: i have to re-write the .img file, right now its just a flat ext3 partition
Dec 11 22:54:16 <ext3mount> i can do that command without the -o loop
Dec 11 22:54:40 <RST38h> Ehehehe
Dec 11 22:54:55 <RST38h> STL vector adds one item but deletes two
Dec 11 22:54:59 <RST38h> deleting the same item twice
Dec 11 22:55:03 <jaem> ext3mount, as someone said, though, ext3 really isn't good for flash
Dec 11 22:55:45 <ext3mount> jaem: i did a mkdir /media/mmc3 (my test) and used gparted to format to ext3 then a mount -t ext3 /dev/mmcblk1 /media/mmc3 yields mount failed
Dec 11 22:55:56 <jaem> at least stick the image on your external card - the internal one is not something that is worth the expense to replace
Dec 11 22:56:13 <jaem> I checked with tech support, and they said it's just the guts of a card soldered to the board, or some such
Dec 11 22:56:49 <ext3mount> jaem: is it safe to put the image on a fat16 or fat32?
Dec 11 22:57:00 <jaem> I was quite impressed, both that they were willing to answer a "I know this will void my warranty, but..." question, and also that they had someone available who knew the hardware at that level
Dec 11 22:57:01 <jaem> yay Nokia
Dec 11 22:57:26 <jaem> ext3mount, safe, yes.  FAT32 has a low max filesize, though (2GB?)
Dec 11 22:57:35 <jaem> why not ext2, though?
Dec 11 22:57:39 <ext3mount> jaem: quick question...the /dev/mmcblk1 is the right device in that command?
Dec 11 22:57:49 <ext3mount> jaem: ext2 won't allow files sizes larger than 2GB for the image
Dec 11 22:57:58 <Vulcanis_> it should
Dec 11 22:58:00 <guerby> hi, is it possible to turn the N900 3G connection into a wifi access point?
Dec 11 22:58:13 <Vulcanis_> s/should/did, I'm pretty sure/
Dec 11 22:58:14 <infobot> Vulcanis_ meant: it did, I'm pretty sure
Dec 11 22:58:14 <jaem> ext3mount, okay, so why don't you format your external card into FAT32 and EXT2, and use a native partition?
Dec 11 22:58:27 <flux> jaem, I think you want to avoid running e2fsck as much as you can on a battery-powered device..
Dec 11 22:58:31 <mgedmin> guerby, barely, check my emails on that topic on the list
Dec 11 22:58:32 <jaem> guerby, should be, but not in the GUI
Dec 11 22:58:34 <flux> thus, use ext3
Dec 11 22:58:50 <javispedro> the entire set of gcc support libraries seem like magic. why would g++ invoked as a linker link to libgcc_s when gcc does not?
Dec 11 22:58:53 <mgedmin> that was with a prerelease firmware, mind: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/internet_connection_sharing/
Dec 11 22:58:58 <go1dfish> would it be possible to partition the sd into two sides
Dec 11 22:58:59 <jaem> flux, well, yeah, but it's not that hard - I've done worse on my N810, and still used it for the rest of the day without issue
Dec 11 22:59:01 <ext3mount> flux: we are trying to get ext3 working, i have the *.ko files where they should be, but the mount isn't working
Dec 11 22:59:09 <flux> I suppose n900 always shuts down cleanly, though. even when its battery runs out?
Dec 11 22:59:11 <go1dfish> a fat32 side for USB stick booting ubuntu, and file usage under windows
Dec 11 22:59:17 <go1dfish> and a separate partition for a debian chroot
Dec 11 22:59:20 <ext3mount> flux: i did a mkdir /media/mmc3 (my test) and used gparted to format to ext3 then a mount -t ext3 /dev/mmcblk1 /media/mmc3 yields mount failed
Dec 11 22:59:30 <flux> ext3mount, did dmesg list some errors?
Dec 11 22:59:40 <go1dfish> i.e. if I partition the sd card, will a pc still boot from the device in mass storage mode
Dec 11 23:00:11 <mgedmin> augh, garage is down, cannot check out https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mobilehotspot
Dec 11 23:00:18 <ext3mount> flux: not that i can see, but i think the error is the /dev/mmcblk1 part
Dec 11 23:00:33 <javispedro> ah, it's actually documented. sorry.
Dec 11 23:01:11 <go1dfish> mgedmin: is that what it sounds like, i.e. wifi sharing from 3g/edge?
Dec 11 23:01:15 <mgedmin> ext3mount, what, mounting the whole device, not a single partition?
Dec 11 23:01:39 <ext3mount> part
Dec 11 23:01:44 <go1dfish> been looking for something like that, also has anyone managed to make the n900 function as a bluetooth dun client ( i.e. sharing the connection *from* another device)
Dec 11 23:01:44 <mgedmin> go1dfish, only in the sense that a bicycle is the same as a train
Dec 11 23:02:07 <mgedmin> yes, I could browse the web on my laptop using my n900s 3g connection, without a cable between the lappy and the n900
Dec 11 23:02:28 <flux> ext3mount, indeed, mmcblk1 is the whoe device, while mmcblk1p1 would be a partition of it..
Dec 11 23:02:30 <mgedmin> it was pretty painful (socks5 proxy, swap hell bug 5712)
Dec 11 23:02:31 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5712 N900 goes into swap hell with frozen UI, despite free RAM
Dec 11 23:02:44 <Mousey> what? mmcblk? not usb based eh
Dec 11 23:02:47 <go1dfish> ah, so it's not a full ip routing
Dec 11 23:02:48 <richard42> flux, clever
Dec 11 23:02:55 <ext3mount> ok, let me try that
Dec 11 23:02:58 <go1dfish> has anyone explored trying to get iptables running?
Dec 11 23:03:03 <flux> ext3mount, what did you format ext3 anyway?
Dec 11 23:03:04 <RST38h> Oh my god...
Dec 11 23:03:11 <RST38h> They are combining Boost with STL
Dec 11 23:03:32 <mgedmin> go1dfish, I did
Dec 11 23:03:34 <ext3mount> flux: the image for easydebian would not exceed 2 gb when i had the freespace (using dd)
Dec 11 23:03:38 <mgedmin> no iptables.ko on pre-production firmware
Dec 11 23:03:46 <mgedmin> and no kernel sources, so I couldn't build a working version
Dec 11 23:04:01 <mgedmin> RST38h, Boost was built on top of STL!
Dec 11 23:04:05 <mgedmin> in the same spirit
Dec 11 23:04:08 <go1dfish> your still pon pre-pro firmware?
Dec 11 23:04:20 <RST38h> SOmebody, please, kill them all =(
Dec 11 23:04:20 <mgedmin> yeah ...
Dec 11 23:04:25 <mgedmin> too much effort to backup/reflash/restore
Dec 11 23:04:28 <flux> ext3mount, well, in theory you could workaround that issue with raid0..
Dec 11 23:04:36 <mgedmin> planning to do that over this weekend
Dec 11 23:04:40 <flux> actually not raid0, but concatenation raid
Dec 11 23:04:42 <go1dfish> if it makes you feel any better, I dont think iptables.ko is present on production either
Dec 11 23:04:53 <flux> ext3mount, or maybe dmsetup, I think it does that too
Dec 11 23:04:55 <ext3mount> yeah, neither /dev/mmcblk1p0 or /dev/mmcblk1p1 is working
Dec 11 23:04:57 <guerby> mgedmin, you mean  the topic "internet connection sharing" back in october?
Dec 11 23:05:04 <ext3mount> dmsetup is installed
Dec 11 23:05:09 <go1dfish> oh wait...
Dec 11 23:05:12 <go1dfish> there is an ip_tables.ko
Dec 11 23:05:16 <go1dfish> and an iptable_filter.ko
Dec 11 23:05:18 <mgedmin> guerby, yes; I pasted the link here a few seconds later
Dec 11 23:05:23 <go1dfish> interesting
Dec 11 23:05:39 <mgedmin> correction: wasn't iptables.ko, was something else...
Dec 11 23:06:04 <flux> ext3mount, I don't know how to do it, though, but I do believe it's possible :). so you'd have multiple files, possibly loopback-mount each of those, and compose a linearly combined block device out of those
Dec 11 23:06:05 <mgedmin> iptable_nat.ko
Dec 11 23:06:07 <ali1234> go1dfish: yes i have
Dec 11 23:06:24 <RST38h> Oh, it is even worse
Dec 11 23:06:31 <ext3mount> flux: well, i may just go back to the 2 GB image of easydebian
Dec 11 23:06:36 <ext3mount> flux: until qole has time to review
Dec 11 23:06:43 <go1dfish> ali1234: any difficulties, I successfully inserted ip_tables.ko
Dec 11 23:06:51 <go1dfish> no userspace utils seem present though
Dec 11 23:07:02 <flux> ext3mount, btw, another alternative would be to put different directories of the easydebian image into different images
Dec 11 23:07:05 <ali1234> indeed
Dec 11 23:07:11 <flux> but it'd be more complicated to manage
Dec 11 23:07:22 <ali1234> i tried to compile the missing modules using the kernel source, but i couldn't get it to generate the right symbol versioning
Dec 11 23:07:28 <flux> whichever solution is chosen, it'd need to be implemented in easydebian, while your ext3-solution would Just Work(TM)
Dec 11 23:07:33 <ali1234> i didn't try very hard though
Dec 11 23:07:37 <richard42> Hi, is there a way I can test maemo on my pc?  Is there a virtualbox image or something like that?
Dec 11 23:07:38 <ext3mount> im out all, have to go, thanks for the ideas
Dec 11 23:07:38 <mgedmin> ali1234, production firmware?
Dec 11 23:07:41 <ali1234> yes
Dec 11 23:07:45 <flux> /proc/filesystems says n900 supports ext3, so I think it _should_ work
Dec 11 23:07:49 <mgedmin> maemo 5.1 sdk?
Dec 11 23:07:56 <ali1234> but possibly not the right kernel package or something, i didn't apt-get update
Dec 11 23:07:57 <mgedmin> or 5.0?
Dec 11 23:08:02 <ali1234> no idea :/
Dec 11 23:08:02 <go1dfish> ali1234: I wonder if the userspace from the chroot will work
Dec 11 23:08:06 <ali1234> probably 5.0
Dec 11 23:08:07 <derf> RST38h: You knew it was going to happen.
Dec 11 23:08:07 <mgedmin> the right kernel was only released maybe one day ago
Dec 11 23:08:12 <guerby> mgedmin, thx!
Dec 11 23:08:13 <mgedmin> to the SDK
Dec 11 23:08:14 <ali1234> ok then that would be why
Dec 11 23:08:14 <flux> /dev/mmcblk0p2 is /home and it's already ext3, so it must work
Dec 11 23:08:38 <RST38h> derf: Right now, I just want to kill every single "C++ hacker" I can get my hands on
Dec 11 23:08:50 <woglinde> RST38h *g*
Dec 11 23:08:51 <derf> RST38h: Let me know when you want to get started.
Dec 11 23:08:55 <flux> actually I might also consider switching the p1 partition to ext3, I'd only use it as mass storage memory with a linux pc anyway..
Dec 11 23:08:55 <derf> I'm here to help.
Dec 11 23:09:55 * VDVsx codes in C++ sometimes, but is a nice guy, please spare him :P
Dec 11 23:10:36 <SpeedEvil> Todays crazy moment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1scwq7DhfI
Dec 11 23:11:53 <richard42> speedevil, funny
Dec 11 23:12:52 <VDVsx> ahah
Dec 11 23:12:55 <go1dfish> haven't tried extensively yet but it looks like the userspace utils in a chroot will interact with iptables
Dec 11 23:15:59 <fnordianslip> anyone wanna try out my deb for conky while i wait for garage to come back up?  no widget or desktop conky yet, just a seperate app window
Dec 11 23:16:12 <jaem> fnordianslip, for Maemo 5?  Sure, why not :)
Dec 11 23:16:13 <ali1234> go1dfish: they definitely will cos it's just a kernel interface
Dec 11 23:16:35 <fnordianslip> jaem: hang on while i upload it somewhere
Dec 11 23:17:41 <dnaumov> I wonder if you could theoretically reflash a N900 with a completely different setup than what it comes from, say, NetBSD
Dec 11 23:18:16 <jaem> dnaumov, theoretically, sure... although it may not be practically possible in some cases
Dec 11 23:18:19 <jaem> and it would be a lot of work
Dec 11 23:18:27 <jaem> look up the Mer project
Dec 11 23:18:44 <SpeedEvil> Is there a way to get the n900 x server accepting external connections for x windows?
Dec 11 23:18:49 <SpeedEvil> so I can run stuff on it
Dec 11 23:19:00 <jaem> non-Linux probably is not practical, since some of the Linux kernel modules are proprietary, and obviously won't work with BSD
Dec 11 23:19:10 <jaem> SpeedEvil, can you clarify?
Dec 11 23:19:40 <SpeedEvil> jaem: so I can run xeyes, or whatever, hosted on my laptop - with the window displaying on the n900 - sorry - not being very clear tonight.
Dec 11 23:20:03 <jaem> oh
Dec 11 23:20:07 <jaem> ssh -X, possibly?
Dec 11 23:20:10 <go1dfish> ali1234: cool, im gonna go ahead and set up firestarter in my chroot and go from there, where would I go to get the newly released kernel sources?
Dec 11 23:20:19 <jaem> if you want to initiate it from the laptop, I'm not sure, but that's the usual way to do it
Dec 11 23:20:21 <fnordianslip> jaem: http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/conky_1.6.1-0maemo5-0.1_armel.deb
Dec 11 23:20:39 <go1dfish> SpeedEvil: yes, ssh -X will do x11 forwarding over x
Dec 11 23:20:44 <SpeedEvil> jaem: hmm, thanks
Dec 11 23:20:45 <jaem> if you wanted to be fancy, you could write an app to do something somewhat like MS Sideshow, but that's probably overkill
Dec 11 23:21:01 <go1dfish> SpeedEvil: I've run firefox, etc... off my desktop that way
Dec 11 23:21:11 <jaem> SpeedEvil, once you use the -X switch (capital X), you can just run X apps in the shell, and they will automatically be remoted
Dec 11 23:21:31 <SpeedEvil> jaem: yes - I've never actually yused ssh forwardin gbefore - X that is.
Dec 11 23:21:32 <jaem> be aware, though, that Maemo's WM will mangle plenty of them, and the odd app won't be happy being remoted
Dec 11 23:21:35 <go1dfish> it will only really work well over a fastish connection though, VNC would be better solution for slower connections, but wont do one app at a time
Dec 11 23:21:36 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Dec 11 23:21:42 <jaem> but it generally works
Dec 11 23:21:55 <ifreq> can someone be so bored and do xsnow before xmas comes
Dec 11 23:22:00 <ifreq> =) pretty pls
Dec 11 23:22:10 <jaem> go1dfish, I'd like a working NX client, as that's what my desktop and my friend's server have installed
Dec 11 23:22:23 <go1dfish> I've still never really messed with NX
Dec 11 23:22:30 <go1dfish> heard good things about it though
Dec 11 23:22:31 <jaem> and RDP for my uni's terminal server, so I can do my homework without needing to buy Windows apps :P
Dec 11 23:22:33 <dnaumov> jaem: afaik, the openbsd people got the zaurus port to run pretty well, but I would guess if n900 relies on proprietary non-open kernel modules for supporting things like umts/gsm you wouldnt get very far with having phone functions of N900 working in a BSD :)
Dec 11 23:22:51 <fnordianslip> jaem: you will need to copy /opt/maemo/usr/share/doc/conky/examples/conky.conf to /etc/conky/conky.conf  and run it as "conky -d" from xterm, or put the conf file elsewhere and call "conky -c path/conky.conf -d"
Dec 11 23:22:51 * mgedmin needs a better hostname for his n900 than 'mg-n900'
Dec 11 23:23:08 * go1dfish has been meaning to try out openbsd on his C3100 for a while
Dec 11 23:23:39 <dnaumov> btw, I am hearing someone already has quake3 running on his/her N900? any screenshots around?
Dec 11 23:23:47 <ifreq> youtube
Dec 11 23:23:55 <go1dfish> dnaumov: yeah, openarena is in the repos to, I just installed it today
Dec 11 23:23:56 <mgedmin> dnaumov, OpenArena is in extras (-devel, probably)
Dec 11 23:24:24 <go1dfish> has anyone tried running android in a chroot on the n900 yet?
Dec 11 23:24:34 <go1dfish> that was done on the zaurus's before the g1 was even out iirc
Dec 11 23:24:59 <jaem> fnordianslip, I'll try it in a bit - I have to get some stuff ready to go out for the weekend
Dec 11 23:25:03 <SpeedEvil> ifreq: to do it 'right' as I understand it it would basically need to be a port to snow on controls, not just windows.
Dec 11 23:25:17 <SpeedEvil> ifreq: as most windows are fullscreen
Dec 11 23:25:22 <dnaumov> hm, openarena on n900 looks like vertex lighting and seems to run a fair bit slower than the q3 port for n95
Dec 11 23:25:22 <fnordianslip> jaem: out?  at the weekend?  why?  :) np
Dec 11 23:25:30 <jaem> fnordianslip, early Christmas
Dec 11 23:25:35 <ifreq> SpeedEvil: okay, good point
Dec 11 23:25:37 <jaem> long story :P
Dec 11 23:26:13 <SpeedEvil> jaem: it should auto-set the display variable - when I ssh to laptop with -X from phone? As it's not
Dec 11 23:26:34 <SpeedEvil> jaem: maybe I've ot the wrong ssh package setup. /me reads his laptop sshd.conf
Dec 11 23:26:51 <go1dfish> some distros disable x11 forwarding by default in sshd.conf
Dec 11 23:27:16 <go1dfish> dnaumov: someone on the maemo.org forum was saying that q3 on maemo ran faster than openarena as well
Dec 11 23:28:39 <jaem> SpeedEvil, yeah, you'll need to enable X11 Forwarding in the config
Dec 11 23:28:59 <SpeedEvil> jaem: yeah - that's it iut was defaulted to no - though it wasn't explicitly set in sshd.conf
Dec 11 23:32:02 <jaem> wow... FB is worse than I thought... and I knew they were bad when it came to privacy :S
Dec 11 23:32:19 <jaem> now they're just outright lying about the stuff they pull
Dec 11 23:32:38 * jaem deletes^Wdeactivates his account
Dec 11 23:32:47 <SpeedEvil> Oh well - I was trying xlock -inroot -mode flame - but it's not working.
Dec 11 23:32:57 * SpeedEvil wonders if the pictures can be transparent.
Dec 11 23:34:12 <SpeedEvil> xsnow - it does nothing! (by default at least without any hacking)
Dec 11 23:34:16 <jaem> apparently if I deactivate my account, none of my friends will be able to keep in touch with me... OH NOEZ!
Dec 11 23:34:33 <jaem> it's not like we have phones... or e-mail/IM... or meatspace
Dec 11 23:34:34 <Arkenoi> for russian users: http://arkanoid.livejournal.com/277655.html (comments welcome, will translate to english if someone is interested)
Dec 11 23:34:34 <jaem> sigh
Dec 11 23:39:38 <SpeedEvil> hmm - 0 blocks free on /
Dec 11 23:39:46 <SpeedEvil> But I just deinstalled...
Dec 11 23:39:47 <SpeedEvil> ah
Dec 11 23:39:51 <mikhas> remove apt cache
Dec 11 23:39:52 <SpeedEvil> optified vs non optified
Dec 11 23:39:54 * jaem finds it a bit disturbing that the docs in this XML file have a "causes-havoc" element :S http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/librtcom-telepathy-glib/rtcom-telepathy-glib/Channel_Interface_Skype_GroupChat.xml
Dec 11 23:39:55 <SpeedEvil> argh
Dec 11 23:39:56 <SpeedEvil> oh
Dec 11 23:39:59 <SpeedEvil> that may help
Dec 11 23:40:10 <mikhas> it keeps all packages you installed via apt-get methinks
Dec 11 23:40:23 <mikhas> that is, not via app manager
Dec 11 23:40:47 <SpeedEvil> mik: I installed them all through app-manager
Dec 11 23:41:25 <mikhas> odd
Dec 11 23:41:40 <SpeedEvil> hmm - a fair amount not it seems - when python was being screwy
Dec 11 23:41:49 <mikhas> well, if your apt cache is full, ... and you never installed via apt-get ... then that's worth a bug report imho
Dec 11 23:41:58 <SpeedEvil> blow away /var/cache/apt/archives then?
Dec 11 23:42:05 <mikhas> only the contents, yes
Dec 11 23:42:50 <SpeedEvil> there still seems to be something screwy with reboots gaining large amount of space
Dec 11 23:43:17 <mikhas> ph
Dec 11 23:43:21 <mikhas> oh*
Dec 11 23:43:40 <mikhas> well, I had roughly ~70mb in apt cache
Dec 11 23:43:50 <mikhas> which is of course pretty tough for /
Dec 11 23:43:51 <VDVsx> SpeedEvil, true, already experienced that
Dec 11 23:44:10 <SpeedEvil> I can't see anything significant holding open files
Dec 11 23:44:19 <pupnik> my n900 has no /etc/apt/cache
Dec 11 23:44:29 <pupnik> ech
Dec 11 23:44:33 <arachnist> pupnik: /car/cache/apt
Dec 11 23:44:41 <arachnist>  /var
Dec 11 23:44:47 <pupnik> i thought those got deleted
Dec 11 23:44:55 <microlith> yay, it's here
Dec 11 23:45:11 <mikhas> well, I was also surprised to find it
Dec 11 23:45:14 <wazd> nini all
Dec 11 23:45:34 <pupnik> 20MB here. Maybe those were the packages i installed with apt-get and not application manager
Dec 11 23:45:58 <mikhas> SpeedEvil says that this is not the case =/
Dec 11 23:46:16 <nomis> has anyone tried gmediaserver to make stuff available to the N900?
Dec 11 23:46:25 <VDVsx> wazd, gnite
Dec 11 23:46:34 <SpeedEvil> mikhas: I diddn't quite
Dec 11 23:46:41 <mikhas> so, we should ask marius right?
Dec 11 23:46:48 <mgedmin> you rang?
Dec 11 23:46:49 <mikhas> oh ok
Dec 11 23:46:51 <woglinde> haha lol
Dec 11 23:46:53 <SpeedEvil> mikhas: all packages I saw in that dir were directly installed ones
Dec 11 23:46:53 <woglinde> -> http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2009/12/09/n900-arrival/
Dec 11 23:47:02 <jaem> nomis, is that UPnP based?
Dec 11 23:47:22 <mikhas> the other one, optify-marius
Dec 11 23:47:23 <nomis> jaem: apparently. It just started working. Took a while for some reason.
Dec 11 23:47:36 <jaem> nomis, huh... I've only tried with the N810, and a different app
Dec 11 23:47:36 <mgedmin> ah ok
Dec 11 23:47:40 <SpeedEvil> But.
Dec 11 23:47:45 <jaem> it was just a UPnP daemon
Dec 11 23:47:46 <jaem> cli
Dec 11 23:47:48 <SpeedEvil> Before reboot. 7594 blocks.
Dec 11 23:47:53 <SpeedEvil> After reboot - 25000
Dec 11 23:48:15 <SpeedEvil> Since the last reboot all packages have been installed only through package manager
Dec 11 23:48:27 <SpeedEvil> how do I install a non-broken find on this thing?
Dec 11 23:48:38 <nomis> jaem: do you recall what you used?
Dec 11 23:48:53 <jaem> nomis, let me see
Dec 11 23:50:55 <ifreq> SpeedEvil: logs?
Dec 11 23:51:00 <lardman|home> is Garage still down?
Dec 11 23:51:10 <lardman|home> for svn access?
Dec 11 23:51:25 <SpeedEvil> ifreq: ?
Dec 11 23:51:27 <jaem> nomis, I think it was ushare
Dec 11 23:51:31 <ifreq> nvm
Dec 11 23:51:47 <jaem> it's available for Arch - not sure about other distros
Dec 11 23:52:08 <nomis> jaem: mhm, seems its not available in debian.
Dec 11 23:52:50 <jaem> nomis, apparently it was originally based on GMediaServer anyway
Dec 11 23:53:10 <jaem> I don't know if it's better, and that probably depends on your preferences
Dec 11 23:53:20 <jaem> http://ushare.geexbox.org/#Download
Dec 11 23:53:22 <nomis> mhm. Every time I try to watch a shared movie, the "phono player" interface starts.
Dec 11 23:53:31 <jaem> what's that?
Dec 11 23:54:12 <nomis> jaem: the one with the big icon of a record player. Which is kind of bogus for a movie  :)
Dec 11 23:54:24 <jaem> ahaha
Dec 11 23:54:34 <jaem> are you just browsing to the file on the share, then?
Dec 11 23:54:52 <nomis> jaem: I am browsing from within the media player.
Dec 11 23:55:07 <jaem> oh ,you mean it's trying to play it as an audio file?
Dec 11 23:55:13 <jaem> or am I misunderstanding yuo
Dec 11 23:55:37 <nomis> yeah, thats what I suspect. Not sure how the upnp protocol actually works there.
Dec 11 23:55:51 <jaem> nomis, what type of video is it?
Dec 11 23:56:22 <jaem> e.g. codec and such.  I know that MPlayer will attempt to play the audio track even if it can't play the video, so maybe this player is doing something similar, by accident or design
Dec 11 23:56:27 <nomis> some random .wmv.
Dec 11 23:57:17 <jaem> okay - have to run.  I'll be back in a while
Dec 11 23:57:20 <jaem> hope you get it working
Dec 11 23:57:41 <jaem> try a video with a simple/old codec, and see if that works
Dec 11 23:58:32 <javispedro> does anyone know if there's a way I can send the same source package to multiple maemo-org autobuilders without using the web interface?
Dec 12 00:06:37 <Arkenoi> is it true that 10 years old "cubic" nokia chargers may be damaging for modern batteries?
Dec 12 00:09:04 <microlith> hmm
Dec 12 00:09:44 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: I doubt it. The batteries have internal protection typically, and if they do not, the phone does.
Dec 12 00:09:57 <till-> isn't the charger logic built into the phone and not the charger?
Dec 12 00:09:58 <microlith> is the N900's WPA PSK compatible with WPA2?
Dec 12 00:09:59 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: Simply as you don't know what shit someones going to connect to it.
Dec 12 00:10:02 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 12 00:10:16 <mgedmin> microlith, yes
Dec 12 00:10:26 <microlith> ok
Dec 12 00:10:43 <till-> i built a nokia charger for my bike, it just suplies 6v
Dec 12 00:10:47 <mgedmin> javispedro, are autobuilders even up now?  garage is down :(
Dec 12 00:10:58 <lardman|home> hmm, forgot to give Qalculate! an icon
Dec 12 00:11:05 <lardman|home> and also needs hildonised menus
Dec 12 00:11:07 <lardman|home> ah well
Dec 12 00:11:08 <till-> and until now the batteries of both my n82 and my n800 are fine
Dec 12 00:11:13 <javispedro> mgedmin: ah, thanks for the warning. won't try to wast my time with uploading 30MiBish files
Dec 12 00:11:25 <mikhas> Qalculate ... for a german this reminds me of Qual ...
Dec 12 00:11:35 <till-> :)
Dec 12 00:13:10 <lardman|home> im Moment ist es warscheinlich so schwierig
Dec 12 00:13:23 <mgedmin> javispedro, I was asking, not warning -- maybe I could upload my package with scp or something, since the web page is down
Dec 12 00:13:23 <lardman|home> quite crowded on the screen
Dec 12 00:14:08 <ifreq> till-: good idea thanks
Dec 12 00:14:12 <lardman|home> I always like gift myself
Dec 12 00:14:31 <lardman|home> almost converse meaning in English/German
Dec 12 00:14:41 <mikhas> no, same.
Dec 12 00:14:47 <mikhas> most gifts are gift
Dec 12 00:14:51 <mikhas> >=)
Dec 12 00:15:01 <lardman|home> I hope not the one from my wife! ;)
Dec 12 00:15:08 <lardman|home> but you never know!
Dec 12 00:15:25 <mikhas> in the sense of having to use unwanted gifts
Dec 12 00:15:41 <mikhas> but that's still a bit far-fetched, oh well
Dec 12 00:15:50 <lardman|home> :)
Dec 12 00:17:53 <microlith> hmm, this thing does not like my access point
Dec 12 00:19:36 <nomis> jaem: ushare works perfect. seems it was a gmediaserver problem.
Dec 12 00:19:57 <jaem> nomis, \o/
Dec 12 00:21:25 <microlith> hmm
Dec 12 00:23:18 <microlith> ...reboot
Dec 12 00:28:11 <go1dfish> microlith: have you played with the wifi power saving options?
Dec 12 00:28:18 <go1dfish> mine doesn't like certain AP's with power saving on
Dec 12 00:28:25 <lardman|home> night all
Dec 12 00:28:44 <microlith> go1dfish: yeah looking at that
Dec 12 00:29:04 <go1dfish> on the one I had issues with, it wasn't the transmit power that was an issue
Dec 12 00:29:07 <go1dfish> it was the other power saving option
Dec 12 00:30:54 <microlith> ohyea
Dec 12 00:30:59 <microlith> it's much happier now
Dec 12 00:31:59 <microlith> time to go geek route and load vim
Dec 12 00:40:05 <Nicko> Does anyone know if there is a deborphan ported to Diablo?
Dec 12 00:41:37 <woglinde> nicko dont believe it
Dec 12 00:41:47 <woglinde> nicko whats your problem?
Dec 12 00:42:23 <Nicko> looking for an easy way to clean out un-necessary packages
Dec 12 00:43:04 <woglinde> hm?
Dec 12 00:43:18 <woglinde> how many packages you have installed?
Dec 12 00:43:51 <Nicko> in addition to tmp emptying commands like apt-get clean/autoclean
Dec 12 00:44:23 <Nicko> how many? prolly a lot :)
Dec 12 00:44:48 <ali1234> Nicko: get root shell, use apt-get
Dec 12 00:45:02 <woglinde> sudo gainroot
Dec 12 00:45:07 <woglinde> dpkg -l | wc -l
Dec 12 00:45:14 <woglinde> works as user too
Dec 12 00:45:20 <mgedmin> also be sure not to remove any essential packages that would brick your device
Dec 12 00:45:28 <ali1234> deborphan sounds like apt-get autoremove to me
Dec 12 00:45:32 <woglinde> mgedmin lol
Dec 12 00:45:37 <mgedmin> cruder
Dec 12 00:45:46 <Nicko> is that equivalent to apt-get autoremove?
Dec 12 00:45:46 <woglinde> mgedmin you cannt do it without
Dec 12 00:45:50 <woglinde> typing
Dec 12 00:45:56 <woglinde> I am really dump
Dec 12 00:46:01 <ali1234> Nicko: i dunno, i'm just going on the name of it
Dec 12 00:46:10 <mgedmin> autoremove remembers which packages were explicitly installed, and which ones were pulled in automatically
Dec 12 00:46:15 <mgedmin> deborphan tries to guess
Dec 12 00:46:21 <mgedmin> which is why I called it 'cruder'
Dec 12 00:46:55 <Nicko> so autoremove > deborphan ?
Dec 12 00:49:02 <mgedmin> for values of >
Dec 12 00:49:17 <mgedmin> it's certainly a newer feature of apt's
Dec 12 00:49:45 <mgedmin> and it can be useful in other ways
Dec 12 00:49:52 <Nicko> '>' = safer to use
Dec 12 00:50:03 <mgedmin> e.g. if you explicitly install libfoo-dev in order to build something, autoremove won't remove it
Dec 12 00:50:16 <mgedmin> but deborphan will tell you that you've got libfoo-dev that no other package depends on
Dec 12 00:50:36 <Nicko> i ran autoremove right now. quite a lot of libs and apps it wants to clean out
Dec 12 00:50:37 <mgedmin> I wouldn't blindly remove every package deborphan lists
Dec 12 00:50:45 <mgedmin> I would blindly apt-get autoremove
Dec 12 00:50:46 <mgedmin> so, yes
Dec 12 00:51:03 <ali1234> i would blindly apt-get autoremove on ubuntu, but not maemo
Dec 12 00:51:06 <mgedmin> well, not blindly, but unless it looks _very_ wrong, I'd assume it was safe
Dec 12 00:51:08 <mgedmin> yeah, that
Dec 12 00:51:14 <ali1234> call me paranoid but i just don't trust those crazy non-free debs
Dec 12 00:51:36 <Nicko> its funny though..autoremove wants to remove unrar
Dec 12 00:51:42 <mgedmin> I know what's what on ubuntu; a lot of maemo pkgs are a bit mysterious
Dec 12 00:52:36 <Nicko> last n00b question: is there a way for me to check what is using a certain lib?
Dec 12 00:54:32 <mgedmin> apt-cache rdepends?
Dec 12 00:54:35 <mgedmin> I don't really remember
Dec 12 00:54:43 <microlith> good, mic isn't bugged
Dec 12 00:54:49 <mgedmin> ooh, ought to check that
Dec 12 00:54:53 <mgedmin> how do I check that?
Dec 12 00:54:56 <odin_> Nicko, "ldd /bin/program" also "cat /proc/<pid>/maps" of the running program
Dec 12 00:54:57 <mgedmin> call skype voice test?
Dec 12 00:55:02 <Nicko> thanks, no worries, i'll do some searching
Dec 12 00:55:05 <Nicko> thanks
Dec 12 00:55:23 <microlith> I just called my parents, works the same
Dec 12 00:57:48 <mgedmin> ah, can't call skype before I enter my account info
Dec 12 00:57:54 <mgedmin> gah, this data transfer thing is painful
Dec 12 00:59:08 <mgedmin> good thing they have two themes, or I couldn't tell my loaner N900 from my personal N900...
Dec 12 01:00:39 <mgedmin> time to sleep anyway
Dec 12 01:06:23 <microlith> hmm
Dec 12 01:06:30 <microlith> is there a way to mass delete the entire contents of a folder?
Dec 12 01:06:41 <arachnist> rm -rf
Dec 12 01:06:56 <microlith> I should be more clear
Dec 12 01:07:11 <microlith> the e-mail client downloaded 250+ spam messages google shuffled off into a folder
Dec 12 01:07:15 <microlith> is it possible to delete all of them?
Dec 12 01:07:19 <microlith> at once, that is.
Dec 12 01:09:26 <Dantonic> hi, anyone use the maps app?  are you able to enter number in the Find feature?
Dec 12 01:09:34 <Dantonic> on the N900 that is
Dec 12 01:32:48 <asidjazz> lemme get this str8
Dec 12 01:32:58 <asidjazz> maemo is gtk+ w/ hildon in c++ or c?
Dec 12 01:33:45 <asidjazz> ah yea c++
Dec 12 01:36:18 <asidjazz> when is the php-gtk support gonna occur :)
Dec 12 01:45:03 <w00t> asidjazz: whenever you, or someone else interested in it does it, I'd guess
Dec 12 01:49:47 <DocScrutinizer51> just a note of minor importance: N900 messes up DCF77 radio controlled clocks in a radius of up to 1m
Dec 12 01:50:03 <asidjazz> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=423928#post423928
Dec 12 01:50:26 <asidjazz> ^- FYI
Dec 12 02:01:18 <siriusnova> is it just me or does the Flash on the N900 suck on everything except youtube?
Dec 12 02:01:27 <siriusnova> its rediculously choppy on any other video site
Dec 12 02:01:31 <siriusnova> like hulu
Dec 12 02:03:09 <pupnik> siriusnova: Flash sucks yes.
Dec 12 02:03:21 <pupnik> that is not our fault, now is it
Dec 12 02:05:40 <go1dfish> sadly flash on the n900 is the best implementation of flash I've seen on linux sofar
Dec 12 02:05:48 <go1dfish> not that that says much
Dec 12 02:06:14 <go1dfish> hulu videos are nearly twice the res of your std youtube video, so not too surprising
Dec 12 02:06:28 <go1dfish> that *might* become possible with flash10 with gpu video accel
Dec 12 02:06:48 <asidjazz> are all maemo apps always going to be free?
Dec 12 02:06:54 <asidjazz> gotta wait for the ovi store to com eout?
Dec 12 02:07:19 <go1dfish> and of course if hulu (or rather their content providers) finds out that their site does become usable on the n900, they will take steps to prevent it
Dec 12 02:07:32 <asidjazz> hulu is already done go1dfish
Dec 12 02:07:42 <go1dfish> ?
Dec 12 02:07:49 <asidjazz> comcast bought nbc
Dec 12 02:08:03 <asidjazz> 40 bil
Dec 12 02:08:07 <asidjazz> think about that :)
Dec 12 02:08:13 <asidjazz> whats comcasts' product?
Dec 12 02:09:00 <go1dfish> have they shut it down yet?
Dec 12 02:09:17 <asidjazz> no not yet the buy is still going through
Dec 12 02:10:21 <ShadowJK> I'm beginning to suspect the calendar autostarts at midnight
Dec 12 02:10:34 <Arkenoi> actually almost all online video players suck except youtube
Dec 12 02:10:56 <Arkenoi> even youtube sucks after they introduced that stupid mouse-on pop-up thingies
Dec 12 02:11:15 <Arkenoi> it worked much better on low performance machines before that
Dec 12 02:11:57 <ShadowJK> some livestream things work on n900, some skins eat humongous amounts of ram and dont work
Dec 12 02:12:59 <pupnik> ustream also too slow on my n900
Dec 12 02:13:06 <pupnik> and there's just no need for that
Dec 12 02:13:53 <pupnik> man, i remember designing flash to run on p3s
Dec 12 02:14:03 <siriusnova> also will nokia release ovi suite for the N900
Dec 12 02:14:18 <siriusnova> any ideas?
Dec 12 02:14:20 <pupnik> @500mhz, scrolling a 800x600 window at 5 fps.
Dec 12 02:14:25 <pupnik> yes
Dec 12 02:14:48 <go1dfish> flash is just a bloated pos
Dec 12 02:15:32 <pupnik> thing is, there are some cases where you have to use it, as a web dev
Dec 12 02:15:39 <go1dfish> complain to the relevant sites to switch to/offer HTML5
Dec 12 02:15:59 <go1dfish> pupnik: yeah I know :( I work with a music label startup
Dec 12 02:16:13 <go1dfish> use soundmanager2 for playback, at least that way the UI can still be all DOM/CSS
Dec 12 02:16:23 <pupnik> hah.  is there a music label anywhere that doesnt do a full-flash web presence?
Dec 12 02:16:44 <go1dfish> works quite well on the n900 btw :) though a bit slow, more due to a lack of js optimization than the flash applet
Dec 12 02:16:47 <go1dfish> http://tunetrack.net/
Dec 12 02:16:49 <pupnik> well for streaming video i'd like something that is scalable and open
Dec 12 02:16:58 <pupnik> i.e. client can ignore some detail if it's not keeping up
Dec 12 02:17:49 <go1dfish> heh that wouldn't be necessary if we'd just drop the completely extraneous Flash VM for video playback, I've been through many machines that could handle fluid full screen video, and choke to death on moderate flash vids
Dec 12 02:18:49 <pupnik> right
Dec 12 02:19:07 <pupnik> waitaminute
Dec 12 02:19:50 <pupnik> goldfish, think browser could be hacked to detect a "normal" flv stream and play that with gstreamer/mplayer?
Dec 12 02:20:31 <pupnik> is it really decoding the flv in a vm?
Dec 12 02:20:45 <pupnik> or just flash apps?
Dec 12 02:20:55 <timperi> completely extraneous flash vm
Dec 12 02:21:38 <pupnik> hmmmmm
Dec 12 02:23:56 <go1dfish> pupnik: it might be possible
Dec 12 02:24:02 <go1dfish> using the same method as the flv downloaders
Dec 12 02:24:28 <go1dfish> I don't know for sure how flv encoding works in flash
Dec 12 02:24:36 <go1dfish> but I can only imagine it happens in the VM with how slow it is
Dec 12 02:25:06 <go1dfish> err decoding*
Dec 12 02:27:49 <pupnik> btw if your device slows down after loading up with files, tweaker the tracker config to taste
Dec 12 02:28:22 <pupnik> i added a delay to scanning on boot, removed .documents from tree
Dec 12 02:28:43 <pupnik> lowered priority also.  n900 is zippy again
Dec 12 02:30:18 <ShadowJK> uh, lack of js optimization? doesn't the browser have tracemonkey..
Dec 12 02:31:02 <ShadowJK> go1dfish, decoding isn't in the vm, it'd not be anywhere near fast enough for sure
Dec 12 02:31:15 <ShadowJK> The decoder in flash isn't that fast though...
Dec 12 02:31:25 <ali1234> decoder in actionscript? lol
Dec 12 02:31:32 <ShadowJK> Plus it's doing alpha compositing on top of the video, which uses shitloads extra
Dec 12 02:31:49 <ShadowJK> and i think it has to convert the video to RGB? that's extra 30% right there...
Dec 12 02:35:24 <ShadowJK> What I'm saying is, even if flash had a video decoder that was as fast as, say, ffmpeg or openmax, they still wouldn't come close to the performance of a dedicated player
Dec 12 02:41:23 * Arkenoi has c3/c4 rate with sip and xmpp on 26%/73% , is that normal or can be reduced?
Dec 12 02:42:01 <go1dfish> ShadowJK: I meant a lack of optimization in the js of my own site
Dec 12 02:42:12 <ShadowJK> ah
Dec 12 02:42:21 <go1dfish> it is using tracemonkey?
Dec 12 02:43:40 <go1dfish> I don't think microb is using tracemonkey yet
Dec 12 02:44:13 <ShadowJK> I thought it was
Dec 12 02:44:13 <go1dfish> but I did have a nokia rep say that the browser will be getting JIT compilation for JS soon, I assume he was referring to tracemonkey
Dec 12 02:45:04 <go1dfish> I could very well be wrong, I haven't looked that deep into it
Dec 12 02:47:31 <AakashPatel> This damn screen scratchs like a mofo easily
Dec 12 02:47:49 <AakashPatel> I've had it for like 2 weeks and i already see a scratch
Dec 12 02:49:28 <Proteous> stop carrying it in the same pocket as your keys
Dec 12 02:49:41 <Vratha> mmmm, n900
Dec 12 02:50:04 <Vratha> what i want to know is why t-mobile thinks it's a good idea to route all my internet traffic through Kansas when i actually live in NY
Dec 12 02:50:45 <DocScrutinizer51> has anybody checked N900 service manuals? Any Idea what's smallest entity to replace to get a new scratchfree display surface... and how much that will cost?
Dec 12 02:51:02 <go1dfish> DocScrutinizer51: there is a disassembly video floating around
Dec 12 02:51:20 <go1dfish> the bezel/screen cover is removable
Dec 12 02:51:22 <lcuk> n900 autopsy?
Dec 12 02:51:37 <DocScrutinizer51> go1dfish: any pointer?
Dec 12 02:51:40 <go1dfish> http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-news/nokia-n900-disassembly/
Dec 12 02:51:48 <w00t> Vratha: i've gotten out of the habit of trying to question ISPs/etc
Dec 12 02:52:01 <w00t> when I lived in australia, my ISP had a habit of sending my traffic via new zealand..
Dec 12 02:52:07 * w00t never worked that one out
Dec 12 02:52:09 <Vratha> w00t: well, when it results in <= 1/3 the speed of AT&T, i care
Dec 12 02:52:19 <w00t> (I was on dialup, so it really sucked)
Dec 12 02:52:27 <Vratha> hehe
Dec 12 02:52:36 <Vratha> luckily my land-based cable provider is awesome
Dec 12 02:52:48 <w00t> ah, dialup, how I *don't* miss thee
Dec 12 02:52:55 <Vratha> word on that
Dec 12 02:52:55 * w00t hugs ADSL2+
Dec 12 02:53:14 <AakashPatel> Proteous: i dont
Dec 12 02:53:19 <AakashPatel> i treat this thing like a baby
Dec 12 02:53:35 <w00t> AakashPatel: you too?
Dec 12 02:53:42 <w00t> I'm glad I'm not the only one that tries to bottle feed my phone
Dec 12 02:53:45 * w00t coos
Dec 12 02:53:46 <AakashPatel> Haha yeah
Dec 12 02:53:59 <w00t> my case arrived today
Dec 12 02:54:06 <AakashPatel> wait what
Dec 12 02:54:09 <AakashPatel> they have cases?
Dec 12 02:54:10 <AakashPatel> Where
Dec 12 02:54:14 <go1dfish> im still using the same case as my treo650
Dec 12 02:54:14 <Vratha> i often throw mine at the wall
Dec 12 02:54:14 <w00t> well
Dec 12 02:54:16 <go1dfish> works quite well
Dec 12 02:54:19 <Vratha> just to let it know who's boss around here
Dec 12 02:54:20 <w00t> I bought *A* case for it, yes
Dec 12 02:54:22 <w00t> and it fits ok
Dec 12 02:54:26 <AakashPatel> erm nvm
Dec 12 02:54:30 <AakashPatel> It already has a micro scratch
Dec 12 02:54:31 <go1dfish> even the headphone port cutout in the bottom is in the right spot
Dec 12 02:54:32 <w00t> though the plastic over the keyboard is a bit annoying
Dec 12 02:54:35 <AakashPatel> might as well not use protection
Dec 12 02:54:45 <DocScrutinizer51> ooooh sheiit what a scary tool
Dec 12 02:54:46 <w00t> quote of the day award goes to AakashPatel
Dec 12 02:54:58 <AakashPatel> Hah
Dec 12 02:55:14 <Vratha> i wonder if strangers having sex use that excuse
Dec 12 02:55:27 <Vratha> "well, my penis already has a scratch... what the hell... no protection!"
Dec 12 02:55:34 <Vratha> 3 weeks later, they learn they have aids
Dec 12 02:55:41 <Vratha> hiv at least
Dec 12 02:56:06 <Vratha> hahaha, that would be funny to us outside observers
Dec 12 02:56:36 <AakashPatel> Lol
Dec 12 02:56:43 <AakashPatel> Bur srsly
Dec 12 02:56:46 <AakashPatel> this tiny scratch
Dec 12 02:56:49 <AakashPatel> D:
Dec 12 02:57:53 <w00t> I thank god I bought a screen protector
Dec 12 02:58:52 <w00t> else I'd have no end of scratches
Dec 12 02:58:58 <yuizy> which protector do you have?
Dec 12 02:58:59 * w00t is a harsh master
Dec 12 02:59:02 <w00t> durasec
Dec 12 02:59:08 <w00t> though I'd not recommend it
Dec 12 02:59:14 <AakashPatel> ehhh
Dec 12 02:59:21 <w00t> it's ok, but a pain in the *ass* to apply, and i'm not confident it's sticking properly
Dec 12 02:59:38 <AakashPatel> My motto is, why protect something when it'll eventualy break anyways
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 12 02:59:57 2009