**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 14 02:59:56 2009 Dec 14 03:00:16 ooooh. no more sharing pics on ovishare Dec 14 03:00:31 hmm is ovi account useful to have? Dec 14 03:00:53 not really (yet) _ mho Dec 14 03:01:01 k Dec 14 03:01:08 then i wont waste time on register Dec 14 03:01:09 :) Dec 14 03:02:18 yeah lol dont do it yet Dec 14 03:03:15 Someone get a date from nokia on when the ovi store is gonna be live Dec 14 03:03:25 I cant submit this 50 dolla rebate till then D: Dec 14 03:03:41 actually I did but can't see a particular attractivity in it Dec 14 03:04:04 huh? Dec 14 03:04:23 (register with ovi) Dec 14 03:04:44 oh Dec 14 03:34:10 hm, xchat on desktop (fedora) does far less wakeups than xchat on n900 :/ Dec 14 03:36:07 ShadowJK: wakeups? Dec 14 03:36:12 ShadowJK: Xchat on the n900 blows Dec 14 03:36:15 lol Dec 14 03:36:48 AakashPatel: ??? Dec 14 03:36:57 Integration Dec 14 03:37:00 it could be way better Dec 14 03:37:07 and if you save a setting it always crashes lol Dec 14 03:37:08 yep Dec 14 03:37:18 known issue Dec 14 03:37:35 I wish it would blink the light if you got pinged Dec 14 03:37:45 edit ~/.xchat2/* Dec 14 03:38:06 instead of doing select/poll and waiting for something to happen, it's calling it with a small timeout, looping Dec 14 03:38:12 finally hacked up a way to include a custom kernel config in debian/ dir and have it propigate... The debian/rules file in the kernel isn't set up for a patches/ directory or anything... Dec 14 03:38:41 ShadowJK: what's a 'wakeup'? Dec 14 03:39:12 ShadowJK: same versions on f12 and n900 fwiw Dec 14 03:39:32 it's saying "go do something and stop sleeping you lazy cpu" Dec 14 03:41:02 doc: when app goes from sleep to run Dec 14 03:41:07 hmm it's probably sending pings or sth. Or polls user states Dec 14 03:41:28 lagmeter and away tracking switched off Dec 14 03:41:50 those wouldn't need multiple wakeups per second anyway Dec 14 03:42:15 and on fedora I have lagmeter on, and it's not doing the periodical wakeup Dec 14 03:42:19 what? multiple per second? wtf? Dec 14 03:42:23 yes Dec 14 03:43:16 ShadowJK: i just looked at F12 patches and i dont really see anything that would have to do with wakeups, so i dont think the difference is in xchat itself (?). It did have a patchlet for the config file though, so maybe that would keep it from crashing (just a guess there) Dec 14 03:44:13 hm Dec 14 03:44:14 jebba: source patch? Dec 14 03:44:22 12 per sec Dec 14 03:44:34 ya, source patch Dec 14 03:44:57 what's it tackling? Dec 14 03:45:16 wanna look at how much fremantle xchat is patched? Dec 14 03:45:28 another u/l case issue? ;-P Dec 14 03:45:46 http://pastebin.ca/1713964 DocScrutinizer51 patch Dec 14 03:45:53 huh. the media player supports upnp? Dec 14 03:46:02 o/ Dec 14 03:46:04 YES Dec 14 03:46:05 I DID IT Dec 14 03:46:23 ? Dec 14 03:46:26 I booted Maemo on my N810 with the battery connected only via paperclips held in place by gravity Dec 14 03:46:38 >_< Dec 14 03:46:47 hopefully now I can get at that serial port Dec 14 03:46:49 <.< Dec 14 03:46:50 this will not end well Dec 14 03:46:57 lol Dec 14 03:47:31 lol Dec 14 03:48:18 ARGH Dec 14 03:48:21 make that past tense Dec 14 03:48:23 :( Dec 14 03:48:26 jebba: looks sensible. Also I noticed a few non printable chars in default cxchat.cfg Dec 14 03:48:35 Wifi died, so I lifted it to peek... and a paperclip shifted :( Dec 14 03:48:55 lol Dec 14 03:48:59 any aussies floating around? Dec 14 03:49:08 how the heck do other people use the serial header thing? :/ Dec 14 03:50:01 nobody does :-P Dec 14 03:50:07 meh Dec 14 03:50:11 excpt fab Dec 14 03:50:16 fab? Dec 14 03:50:25 and they have a jigmount Dec 14 03:50:34 DocScrutinizer51: any recommendations on how to debug Linux boot then? Dec 14 03:50:35 factory Dec 14 03:50:48 can kernel messages get sent over USB or something? :/ Dec 14 03:51:08 dunno Dec 14 03:52:09 doubt it Dec 14 03:52:57 there's a netconsole thing, but it's not much use if kernel dies before userspace Dec 14 03:53:00 syslog Dec 14 03:53:11 hmm truu Dec 14 03:54:19 maybe a professionell version of paperclips would help a lot ;-P Dec 14 03:55:31 need more ducttaoe Dec 14 03:56:39 yeah. and hotglue Dec 14 03:56:51 so. anybody get android running on the n900 yet? Dec 14 03:57:21 * DocScrutinizer51 coughs Dec 14 03:57:42 http://www.bu3sch.de/joomla/index.php/nokia-n810-serial-console Dec 14 03:57:50 looks kinda handy :P Dec 14 03:59:06 is there open office or maemo? Dec 14 03:59:42 lol Dec 14 03:59:48 of course there isn't going ot be openoffice. :P Dec 14 03:59:53 Why not :P Dec 14 04:00:02 it's too much of a java memory whore Dec 14 04:00:08 hah Dec 14 04:00:11 Abiword Dec 14 04:00:12 where is taht Dec 14 04:00:13 * AakashPatel wants Dec 14 04:00:17 AakashPatel: There's an office viewer app from Nokia based on KOffice. Dec 14 04:00:20 the question should be "is there anything that can use odts" Dec 14 04:00:20 :) Dec 14 04:00:22 lies. openoffice works without java Dec 14 04:00:44 Termana: well. last i saw it required java. never saw a ver with native bins unless they decided to take that route Dec 14 04:00:53 Termana: either way it is a mem whore Dec 14 04:00:56 :) Dec 14 04:01:00 If they can get OOo on OLPC, they can get it on the N900. Dec 14 04:01:35 "I would not otherwise even know where to begin to hack that thing. I’m not the geek around here I mainly just hurt people." Dec 14 04:01:36 one lap per child? Dec 14 04:01:37 O_o Dec 14 04:01:37 Macer - i agree its a memory whore however ubuntu doesn't come with java by default but it does come with openoffice Dec 14 04:01:47 ^ comment on Hack a Day Dec 14 04:01:49 Termana: hm. Dec 14 04:01:58 Termana: i always figured ubuntu came with blackdown or something Dec 14 04:02:53 Sho_: i want to edit ;) Dec 14 04:03:11 AakashPatel: That's probably coming, too Dec 14 04:03:21 So is a 20GHz phone Dec 14 04:03:22 Nokia is working together with the KOffice team. Dec 14 04:03:25 >.< Dec 14 04:03:39 Sho_: What's it called? Dec 14 04:03:43 That Docs to Go shit? Dec 14 04:04:11 just use HTML, n00bs Dec 14 04:04:14 Thats proprietary o.O Dec 14 04:04:22 ....... Dec 14 04:04:26 o Dec 14 04:04:29 No* Dec 14 04:04:32 luke-jr: docs to go Dec 14 04:04:33 Documents to Go is by DataViz, that's something else Dec 14 04:04:33 :P Dec 14 04:04:55 Seems right now it's just called "Office Viewer" Dec 14 04:05:13 in the extras repo Dec 14 04:05:13 Macer - you could be right, however in my default install i couldn't use java applets, but that might not be implemented in icedtea or blackdown Dec 14 04:05:15 ?* Dec 14 04:05:45 not sure, sorry (I don't have a device yet myself) Dec 14 04:05:50 Ah Dec 14 04:05:55 Well, im out for the night Dec 14 04:05:59 Sho_: thanks for the info Dec 14 04:06:03 night all Dec 14 04:06:10 you're welcome, sleep tight Dec 14 04:06:17 Sho_: oh and btw its not in extras ;) Dec 14 04:06:23 good night AakashPatel Dec 14 04:08:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org#Use_of_Java Dec 14 04:08:42 Termana: i'm just saying. sun "owns" openoffice Dec 14 04:08:45 :) Dec 14 04:08:58 they still try to promote java Dec 14 04:09:13 although as a cross platform universal development tool.. i think it has failed Dec 14 04:09:17 but don't quote me on that :) Dec 14 04:10:57 either way its probably not great for our devices. which is i guess why everyone is waiting for koffice Dec 14 04:11:59 cool 0xFFFF free software flasher has new code in it for n900 :)= Dec 14 04:18:54 Macer: Sun no longer exists Dec 14 04:23:20 luke-jr: Sun and Oracle haven't merged yet have they? Dec 14 04:26:29 Termana: no? wasn't that announced months ago? Dec 14 04:26:32 if not a year by now Dec 14 04:27:07 Termana: is troll /ignor Dec 14 04:27:22 yeah earlier this year, but i thought there was some trouble with the merger Dec 14 04:27:39 jebba: how am i a troll? :P Dec 14 04:27:48 Termana: haha not you, luke-jr sry ;) Dec 14 04:27:56 allllllllllllll the time Dec 14 04:28:04 oh ok :P lol Dec 14 04:28:44 jebba: if anyone is trolling right now, it's you Dec 14 04:29:39 on another note, the garage buildserver is up and running again :) Dec 14 04:31:20 where'd the find a new 770 to host it on? Dec 14 04:31:26 s/the/they/ Dec 14 04:31:26 jaem meant: where'd they find a new 770 to host it on? Dec 14 04:31:51 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/claws-mail_3.7.3-1maemo2/summary.log built claws in around 20-25 minutes each, so not so bad Dec 14 04:34:47 luke-jr: that wasn't announced anywhere near a year ago. i think you're thinking more like 5 mos. maybe Dec 14 04:35:05 Termana: yeah, the EU didn't approve the merger Dec 14 04:35:09 don't know what happened after that Dec 14 04:35:31 why would the EU need to approve anything? O.o Dec 14 04:35:40 are either Sun or Oracle actually in the EU at all? Dec 14 04:35:59 because if you're an international company and plan to do business in a very large area of your clientele, you need to obey local regulations Dec 14 04:38:43 random question: audio/x-ms-wma support? Dec 14 04:51:59 luke-jr: was oracle allowed to purchase? Dec 14 04:52:30 heh. sun will always exist :) just how linksys still does with a cisco stamp on it to make it look like their crappy made in china wifi routers are of higher quality Dec 14 04:54:13 racist Dec 14 04:54:17 :P Dec 14 04:55:38 * KahnAu hugs his linksys/cisco gear Dec 14 04:55:58 i've only had one device actually fail in hardware Dec 14 04:56:45 KahnAu, its against the rules to talk below the belt Dec 14 04:57:53 :P Dec 14 05:03:25 lol Dec 14 05:09:38 http://gist.github.com/255790 Dec 14 05:09:46 ^ any suggestions for improvement? Dec 14 05:11:50 * DocScrutinizer51 stares at bait. yawns Dec 14 05:12:28 i cant seem to get banshee to recognize the files it copied; not sure to blame HAL, banshee or the phone Dec 14 05:14:03 ahhahahhah. I have the kernel booting up and displaying the standard kernel loading foo on the console on boot :) Dec 14 05:14:13 how? Dec 14 05:14:47 FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=y Dec 14 05:14:54 nvram? Dec 14 05:14:56 rebuilt kernel.debs Dec 14 05:15:16 n900? Dec 14 05:15:16 meh, I don't feel like compiling anything right now it's 12am Dec 14 05:15:18 Linux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28-jebba4 #1 PREEMPT Sun Dec 13 22:33:13 MST 2009 armv7l unknown Dec 14 05:15:22 jebba: you never sleep? Dec 14 05:15:25 hahha Dec 14 05:15:26 Ah Dec 14 05:15:39 i'll put them in my repo in a minute. Dec 14 05:15:43 fuck ya. Dec 14 05:18:35 http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/dists/unstable/main/binary-armel/ Dec 14 05:22:38 wasnt there fb_update_mode in past maemo devices instead of recompiling whole kernel for fb? Dec 14 05:26:05 voice_mode:Viking Dec 14 05:26:12 *sigh* Dec 14 05:30:57 anyone want google wave invites? Dec 14 05:32:18 where all does canola look for playlists? Dec 14 05:35:42 ifreq: no idea about past Dec 14 05:37:09 actually, lets start with something more basic: what's the name of the media player that comes with the n900? Dec 14 05:37:20 Media Player Dec 14 05:37:26 ;p Dec 14 05:37:29 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Installing_my_custom_kernel Dec 14 05:41:00 hehe' so now *that* is what 8 expect from xchat on relogin :-)) Dec 14 05:41:51 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Installing_my_custom_kernel :) Dec 14 05:42:27 what does your custom kernel do>? Dec 14 05:42:45 load -e really is a useful thing Dec 14 05:43:18 nezb: installs backdoor ofcoors Dec 14 05:43:25 for worldwide 1st n900 botnet Dec 14 05:43:37 I mean besides the rootkit Dec 14 05:43:43 too late ;-P Dec 14 05:43:45 :D Dec 14 05:43:46 is the botnet code open source? Dec 14 05:43:57 nezb: ofcourse Dec 14 05:44:09 nezb: jebbas kernel enables framebuffer Dec 14 05:44:24 that's it? Dec 14 05:44:27 FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=y Dec 14 05:45:45 bluepill is hidden in the closed blobs of maemo Dec 14 05:46:28 isn't Blue Pill mode a good thing? Dec 14 05:46:33 nezb: no source, sorry ;-P Dec 14 05:46:53 damn proprietary botnets... I need an open source one before I donate Dec 14 05:49:44 nezb: ifreq, source code all there too. ;) not too much different... Dec 14 05:50:30 nezb: ya, pretty much just it for now. But i had to get a whole procedure down for modifying the .config and getting it to build a proper .deb etc. Dec 14 05:50:56 now that that's done, it's easy to enable/disable whatever or make modules for people or whatever... Dec 14 05:50:56 that's good. was it difficult? Dec 14 05:52:14 yes, PITA, cuz the rules that come with it don't have any patching stuff in it. Like you can't just put in debian/patches/ and have it go, for instance. I also had to ramp myself up on making .debs, cuz i've only made a few before. This is quite clean though. :) I'll write up more how it was all done. Plus the different kernel scratchbox (with now ncurses-dev etc) makes it a bit of a headache. Dec 14 05:52:24 But now it's easy. In the end i only had to change a few lines ;) Dec 14 05:52:54 that's nice Dec 14 05:53:17 i have a script so i can just copy over any .config, run the script, have new kernel .debs. Done. Dec 14 05:53:41 probably going to try 2.6.32-omap1 tomorrow. Dec 14 05:54:06 is quite cool to see the fone boot too ;) Dec 14 05:54:15 does it say anything cool? Dec 14 05:54:34 like "Starting secret Nokia spy utility.... [done]"? Dec 14 05:55:05 hah. havent even paid much attention yet! to what it says. will check it out some more. Dec 14 05:56:07 when connecting your n900 to your Mac and going into "PC Suite Mode", do you find it generally tries to create new network interfaces? Dec 14 05:56:13 yes Dec 14 05:56:14 i don't understand why it doesn't just reuse one it already used Dec 14 05:56:16 every freaking time Dec 14 05:56:25 I think its a mac os x problem? Dec 14 05:56:29 nezb: okay, i'm glad i'm not the only one experiencing that frustration Dec 14 05:56:36 nezb: could be Dec 14 05:57:14 i was hoping someone here knew how to either tell the mac to reuse an old interface or how to configure the n900 to use an existing interface Dec 14 05:59:00 so in the builder if you submit a package that is a dep of your next package, how long does it take before it knows that first dep is there? Dec 14 05:59:27 jebba: it just has to search the dpkg database to know Dec 14 05:59:32 so however long that takes, which isn't too long Dec 14 06:00:48 ok. for some reason it showed my flatzebra_0.1.3-2, being built, but then built the other one first. Dec 14 06:01:00 perhaps they were on different boxes and the second one just got put on a faster box. Dec 14 06:01:04 probably an issue with arandomly generated MAC address Dec 14 06:01:13 how do I trigger it again, just uplaod the .dsc again? Vratha Dec 14 06:01:36 Vratha: yes, check the mac address of the new interface matches the mac of the old one Dec 14 06:02:33 the MAC addy is different each time? Dec 14 06:02:36 * DocScrutinizer51 seems to remeber same issue for freerunner cdc_ether Dec 14 06:02:50 it doesn't happen with the modem iface, only the usbnet iface Dec 14 06:02:56 afaict Dec 14 06:03:10 you can specify the mac to be used in a module param (n900 side) and if maemo isn't doing that it should be Dec 14 06:03:21 the modem interface doesn't have a mac Dec 14 06:03:38 ali1234: exactly Dec 14 06:03:41 well that explains the situation Dec 14 06:03:58 exactly what? Dec 14 06:04:11 * jebba just uploading the whole thing again since dep is there. Dec 14 06:04:14 if no addr specified it will guess a unique one Dec 14 06:04:14 ali1234: oh, good info. do you know which module that would be? Dec 14 06:04:25 so should i upload my kernel to extras-devel? hhaha Dec 14 06:04:27 Vratha: g_ether Dec 14 06:04:43 Vratha: and it has *two* macs, one for the n900 and one given to whatever you connect it to Dec 14 06:05:00 ali1234: thanks; i'll try doing some googlign on it Dec 14 06:05:43 DocScrutinizer51: serial ports (cdc_acm) don't have mac addresses Dec 14 06:06:02 ali1234: ack Dec 14 06:06:43 what it could be is they use the n900 mac for the local side of g_ether and the remote side then gets a random mac Dec 14 06:06:52 so how long after they are built before they are live in extras-devel repo itself? ready for apt-gettedness? Dec 14 06:08:23 hmm, actually the dependency built and is there in https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/flatzebra_0.1.3-2/results/ but the next program i uploaded didn't install it for a dep. So there's some lag somewhere. Dec 14 06:09:42 reMoo Dec 14 06:09:56 anyone know offhand if there is a way to make the toolbar at the bottom of the fremantle xterm disappear? Dec 14 06:10:13 it's covering up one of my nethack status lines :) Dec 14 06:11:09 Vratha: ok had a look, it uses g_nokia not g_ether (presumably so it can do serial and eth at the same time) and the dev_addr and host_addr params are null Dec 14 06:11:46 which means if it is based on g_ether it will pick random addresses, although it doesn't actually seem to do that on a simple unplug/replug Dec 14 06:12:19 X-Fade: Around? Dec 14 06:12:23 but that could be because the module isn't getting unloaded Dec 14 06:12:56 johnsu01: seems that's the only thing that needs to stay. Ther's obviously no way you would get it back once it vanished Dec 14 06:13:53 DocScrutinizer51: personally I don't need it back :) Dec 14 06:14:09 Vratha: if i switch to mass storage and back i do indeed get a new random mac Dec 14 06:15:00 ali1234: what I said Dec 14 06:16:02 what would be the best category to file a low-level rfcomm (BlueZ) bug in? Dec 14 06:16:15 johnsu01: you never need ESC? or switching fullscreen mode? Dec 14 06:16:18 specifically, it's relating to the serial connection dropping during read Dec 14 06:17:02 ali1234: yeah, i had figured out it was g_nokia on some web page. i still haven't found a config file or the params i can send to the module though Dec 14 06:17:47 Vratha: in /etc/modprobe.d make a file called "g_nokia" with contents "options host_addr=" Dec 14 06:17:48 DocScrutinizer51: well, not for many uses of a terminal. If I need those things I can...open a new terminal. Dec 14 06:18:05 but really I'm just asking if there is a keyboard toggle for it Dec 14 06:18:22 because I would often like to have that space for display Dec 14 06:18:26 Vratha: (testing that now) Dec 14 06:18:57 ali1234: thanks. i'll test it out. Dec 14 06:19:14 Vratha: should be: options g_nokia host_addr=00:11:22:33:44:55 Dec 14 06:19:54 it *might* be possible to use reuse the wifi mac for this purpose - there's certainly a lot of other linux devices that do that. but it might not sit well with fremantle Dec 14 06:19:58 ali1234: how did you know it supports host_addr? just by looking in a kernel config one time or something? Dec 14 06:20:11 Vratha: in /sys/modules/g_nokia/parameter Dec 14 06:20:18 s Dec 14 06:20:44 johnsu01: actually you can't (except via cmdline or tricky fingeracrobatics). your dashboard icon vanished when you set fullscreen mode. and to end fullscreen you miss the icon in the toolbar Dec 14 06:20:47 whoa... that must be new since the last time i seriously used linux since my move to OS X Dec 14 06:21:20 DocScrutinizer51: I understand, I'm asking if there is a keyboard shortcut to toggle it Dec 14 06:21:48 wow, sweet. i didn't realize a /sys directory was even mounted Dec 14 06:21:50 freaking nice Dec 14 06:21:56 Vratha: if you think that's cool look at the usb debug interface in /sys/kernel/debug - you can see all usb traffic, and wireshark has a gui. very useful when combined with virtualbox for reversing windows usb drivers Dec 14 06:21:59 johnsu01: ther's no such things like shortcuts in a shell Dec 14 06:22:11 except the shell defined ones Dec 14 06:22:12 DocScrutinizer51: it's not a shell shortcut, it would be a window manager shortcut... Dec 14 06:22:19 or the xterm's shortcut Dec 14 06:22:31 nonexist Dec 14 06:22:50 see ctrl-c for copy Dec 14 06:22:54 why are you acting like this is crazy? urxvt, gnome-terminal, etc, all have keyboard shortcuts Dec 14 06:23:21 shell takes full control over console input Dec 14 06:23:29 ali1234: i might check that out some day i'm screwing around with something on usb that doesn't work :) Dec 14 06:25:30 Ah, here! Dec 14 06:26:02 johnsu01: actually xterm could intercept I guess Dec 14 06:26:02 tekojo: Good morning! Can you catch someone who has control over extras-devel and ask him to figure out why the new fbreader package is not there yet? =) Dec 14 06:27:03 RST38h I can take a look X-Fade will be here at some point, he will know Dec 14 06:27:12 [2009-12-13 23:18:31] fbreader 0.10.7-4 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository Dec 14 06:27:19 This is the last I have got from the autobuilder Dec 14 06:27:24 johnsu01: anyway shell *expects* to get all unfiltered keypress events Dec 14 06:27:49 Whole log here: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/fbreader_0.10.7-4/summary.log Dec 14 06:27:51 ali1234 (re usb snooping), any links to info about that off the top of your head (don't bother Googling it - I can do that) Dec 14 06:28:10 jaem: what exactly are you trying to do? Dec 14 06:29:04 jaem: not related to snooping exactly but a very good guide to how usb works is: http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.htm Dec 14 06:29:13 nothing in particular now, but I'd been vaguely curious about how that worked Dec 14 06:29:22 (comp. eng student, you see) Dec 14 06:29:33 awesome, thanks! Dec 14 06:29:35 if you read that ^ you'll see usb is all about packets Dec 14 06:29:41 ali1234: your info was fantastic. i just reused the eth_addr that the device randomly used last time. figured that was a fairly safe bet Dec 14 06:29:46 mmmm... packets :) Dec 14 06:29:48 and the usbmon debug thingy just dumps the packets in hex :) Dec 14 06:30:16 then you can look at the packet types and decode it Dec 14 06:30:42 nice Dec 14 06:30:47 * jaem will take a look at it later Dec 14 06:31:29 Vratha: i just tried it and it works here, but now i get eth3 instead of usb0 - but that could be due to it "recognising" the 00:11:... mac, which i've probably used like this before Dec 14 06:32:02 Vratha: maybe you find Nokia declared a macaddr range they like to see for their devices Dec 14 06:32:36 Vratha: in the end it most likely doesn't matter Dec 14 06:32:40 jaem: also lsusb -vv will show you a *lot* of info about endpoints and stuff (which are also explained in that guide) Dec 14 06:32:45 RST38h sorry, I don't have enough rights to look deeper, ping X-Fade Dec 14 06:32:51 yes, I think I've done that before Dec 14 06:33:59 * DocScrutinizer51 isn't even aware of -w... just seems to remeber -a Dec 14 06:35:00 tekojo: both he and jeremiah are pretty dead at the moment. ok, will try later Dec 14 06:35:07 well as long as I know --help and it's not friggin crappybox ;-D Dec 14 06:35:44 RST38h, reeeally early morning for them right now :-) Dec 14 06:35:48 never, never do -vvv though, the flood protection of your console will change the root password on you Dec 14 06:36:09 guess so... Dec 14 06:36:14 * plr_ is at qt dev days, awesome to see so many n900's :) Dec 14 06:36:57 aah' -v -v Dec 14 06:37:47 LOL... the Bluetooth SIG's official HFP spec document uses MS Office '97 clipart >_< Dec 14 06:37:49 fail! Dec 14 06:38:13 that's actually kind of terrible Dec 14 06:38:15 ouuuch Dec 14 06:38:27 why isn't this surprising? Dec 14 06:38:29 I remember using that red car in elementary school for an assignment Dec 14 06:38:31 :) Dec 14 06:39:12 Hey, I have a quick question for someone on AT&T. Dec 14 06:39:16 jaem: you are young then =) Dec 14 06:39:24 we had to draw our own cars on paper =) Dec 14 06:39:42 I understand that the N900 will not be able to use AT&T's 3G network- but will it be able to use their EDGE network? Dec 14 06:39:50 * DocScrutinizer51 ponders watching his 7€ toothpick Dec 14 06:39:53 RST38h, well, I'm a few yeas into university, but relatively, yes Dec 14 06:40:07 ok, so libraries go into libs... Dec 14 06:40:11 ponders *while Dec 14 06:40:19 RST38h, what is this "paper" you speak of? Is it like e-Ink? ;) Dec 14 06:40:19 jshupe, yes Dec 14 06:40:34 ridiculous Dec 14 06:40:40 johnx: thanks, that was my understanding/ assumption but I just wanted to verify Dec 14 06:41:12 i ordered one yesterday and am waiting on it to come in to replace my [broken] iphone Dec 14 06:42:31 jshupe: iPhone makes for a nice cigarette box Dec 14 06:42:56 DocScrutinizer51: not when it's in the trash. Dec 14 06:43:17 lol. you stopped smoking? Dec 14 06:44:03 yep, and celebrated by throwing my iPhone into the concrete. Dec 14 06:44:25 XD Dec 14 06:44:35 work in the morning; g'night room. Dec 14 06:44:51 night Dec 14 06:45:11 o/ Dec 14 06:45:34 morning Dec 14 06:45:52 houston, we have winter Dec 14 06:46:03 tigert, we had winter here first XP Dec 14 06:46:24 EFHF 140620Z 05005KT 340V110 9999 SCT029 BKN045 M12/M15 Q1028 Dec 14 06:46:53 -12C aint much here but it still feels cold after months of zero Dec 14 06:55:40 * ShadowJK should get a fire going Dec 14 06:55:48 it's 46F here Dec 14 06:55:57 and i'm happy about that, because it was recently 20F Dec 14 06:56:01 and i'm a pansy in really cold weather Dec 14 07:08:12 mmmm Dec 14 07:08:23 sure was a nice bike ride to work Dec 14 07:11:29 bike? Dec 14 07:11:37 That would have been madness... Dec 14 07:12:06 as in bicycle Dec 14 07:13:23 Yeah, as in madness.. It's like -14C out there.. Dec 14 07:13:38 -16 Dec 14 07:13:55 was when I left home Dec 14 07:16:36 mornin' maemo Dec 14 07:16:51 evening wazd Dec 14 07:16:52 :) Dec 14 07:18:12 you guys are insane Dec 14 07:18:30 * KahnAu only rides in 24c rain Dec 14 07:18:32 :P Dec 14 07:18:49 It's never too cold, you only have the wrong clothes on. Dec 14 07:19:13 the scandinavian attitude Dec 14 07:19:13 :P Dec 14 07:19:19 tekojo: i agree, its much easier to add another layer if your cold, much harder to remove layers in hot weather ;) Dec 14 07:19:48 maximum clothing = nicks and jersey anything more is asking for heat stroke :P Dec 14 07:20:04 heh, I wore a t-shirt and shorts to work all summer here. The thermostat in our office is worse than useless Dec 14 07:20:54 wow, looks like Eldar didn't expect that I will find out his dirty lie :D Dec 14 07:20:55 I occasionally wear a sweatshirt when i go out, if im coming at night, when it deeps down towards like 3-5C Dec 14 07:21:04 deeps = dips Dec 14 07:21:12 like = to like Dec 14 07:21:17 * Xisdibik is sleepy Dec 14 07:22:27 wazd, alright, I'll bite. What's the lie? Dec 14 07:22:46 * Xisdibik screen shots johnx biting Dec 14 07:23:08 om nom nom Dec 14 07:23:19 * Xisdibik adds that to the screenshot Dec 14 07:26:08 Xisdibik: you have to be Canadian Dec 14 07:26:31 johnx: he mentioned in twitter that he was never talking bout multiple maemo devices in 2010 Dec 14 07:26:57 johnx: but in summer he was talking right in my face bout whooping 16 devices )) Dec 14 07:27:05 heh Dec 14 07:27:50 wazd: could have had been the original plan but then economic crisis really struck? Dec 14 07:27:52 johnx: and when I told him bout it - he said that I'm a liar and waited for an hour for me to reply :D Dec 14 07:27:53 * Stskeeps speculates Dec 14 07:28:27 DocScrutinizer: nope Dec 14 07:28:29 erm Dec 14 07:28:30 DocScrutinizer51: Dec 14 07:28:35 Stskeeps: maybe, but he said that anyway Dec 14 07:28:43 wazd: probably Dec 14 07:30:07 luke-jr: "kernel low-level debugging" = serial headers (reply to ml post) Dec 14 07:30:22 ali1234: meh, serial headers don't work Dec 14 07:30:42 luke-jr: they should do if you enable DEBUG_LL Dec 14 07:30:44 ali1234: how did you access it? Dec 14 07:30:55 luke-jr: i didn't, i'm not that guy Dec 14 07:31:16 ali1234: I mean they physically are not usable Dec 14 07:31:48 also, can you confirm: under Maemo4 I should be able to put getty on or echo to /dev/ptyS1 ? Dec 14 07:32:13 can't confirm it, no Dec 14 07:32:29 it's tty not pty - pty is something different. if that wasn't a typo Dec 14 07:32:38 yeah, it was a typo Dec 14 07:32:46 knew something looked wrong, but couldn't figure out what ;) Dec 14 07:32:58 the hardware i use has serial port shared with the usb port so it's a lot easier for me. just hack a usb cable and set some mux lines Dec 14 07:33:15 ~ping Dec 14 07:33:17 ~pong Dec 14 07:33:36 waaaah muxes Dec 14 07:33:48 i've never had a serial port on any NIT Dec 14 07:34:01 "just"... Dec 14 07:34:04 jahas Dec 14 07:34:36 muxing console is a *really* *bad* idea Dec 14 07:35:29 DocScrutinizer51: SoC pin multiplexing Dec 14 07:35:58 on omap850 the usb "pins" can also be serial or standard gpio, or some other things i forget Dec 14 07:36:27 no matter how. we at OM seen lots of despair coming from muxing console tty in neo1973 Dec 14 07:36:28 so it's just a matter of cutting the end off a usb cable and connecting to the usual max232 level shifter Dec 14 07:37:26 DocScrutinizer this is something completely different. in fact, no matter how you mux the pins, the serial port still works. it just isn't connected to the outside world. Dec 14 07:37:50 ali1234: is it? Neo1973 is OMAP 850 Dec 14 07:38:00 wat Dec 14 07:38:30 no it isn't Dec 14 07:39:00 or at least close to that Dec 14 07:39:18 neo1973 is based on samsung s3c2410 Dec 14 07:39:28 it is? O.o Dec 14 07:39:39 * luke-jr wonders what it was he saw based on OMAP 850 Dec 14 07:39:59 oh Dec 14 07:40:00 770 Dec 14 07:40:02 lots of HTC phones that arn't based on MSM Dec 14 07:40:04 my bad Dec 14 07:40:55 DocScrutinizer51: btw, are you OpenMoko "proper" or just OpenMoko dev community? ;p Dec 14 07:41:11 DocScrutinizer51: if the former, will there be a new phone now that the lame wikireader is done? Dec 14 07:41:30 ali1234: ok. you're actually *not* muxing the 7*45 registers then I suppose Dec 14 07:41:45 7*45? Dec 14 07:42:02 i thought "proper" was sacked Dec 14 07:42:03 luke-jr: 1) and No Dec 14 07:42:10 :( Dec 14 07:42:19 ShadowJK: and ack Dec 14 07:42:31 mostly Dec 14 07:42:54 DocScrutinizer it isn't really real multiplexing in the correct sense of the word, cos the pins only do 1 function at a time. just thatthe function is selectable through some registers Dec 14 07:43:32 I'm not sure they'll get far with a lcd wikireader in this age of epaper, which is a shame really :/ Dec 14 07:43:44 same as you see on something like avr where a pin can be either i2c, or a gpio, depending on some reg Dec 14 07:44:01 ali1234: on OM we had kernel deadlocks as the UART was blocked by another tty claiming same registers Dec 14 07:44:21 i dunno why they call it multiplexing, but there you go Dec 14 07:44:42 DocScrutinizer yeah that is MUCH higher level Dec 14 07:44:48 ali1234: aiui you don't share UART between USB and tty function Dec 14 07:44:54 no, not at all Dec 14 07:45:21 they're totally different hardware blocks, and the reg just selects which one is connected to the physical pins of the SoC Dec 14 07:45:28 not all serials are tty tho Dec 14 07:45:42 right, i'm just talking about omap850 :) Dec 14 07:46:03 and how it can do serial on the usb lines, thus making it easy to get DEBUG_LL from a production device Dec 14 07:46:09 k. so scratch my comments Dec 14 07:46:27 comparitively easy anyway Dec 14 07:57:25 -tell luke-jr about DocScrutinizer Dec 14 07:58:13 luke-jr: and seems OM is completely out of phone business Dec 14 07:59:20 DocScrutinizer51: :( Dec 14 08:01:00 jo Dec 14 08:02:16 hi woglinde Dec 14 08:03:09 jo doc Dec 14 08:27:03 Moo all Dec 14 08:28:02 m00f RST38h Dec 14 08:28:14 johnx: heya Dec 14 08:28:14 moo Dec 14 08:28:18 how are things? Dec 14 08:28:24 pretty good Dec 14 08:28:32 moo rst Dec 14 08:28:36 looks like I locked myself out of my remote server, while playing with LDAP PAM Dec 14 08:28:37 woglinde: ehlo Dec 14 08:28:38 hi johnx Dec 14 08:28:42 allo woglinde Dec 14 08:28:47 johnx hahah Dec 14 08:28:55 always have a backup plan Dec 14 08:28:56 anyone remember talk/talkd? Dec 14 08:29:04 johnx: Is it behind a drywall, cemented into a wall 15 years ago (I HOPE =)) Dec 14 08:29:04 when playing with auth-stuff Dec 14 08:29:04 woglinde, I do. I can get a serial console Dec 14 08:29:22 ah okay Dec 14 08:29:41 so I can reboot with init=/bin/sh if necessary Dec 14 08:29:58 yeah talk is so outdated with irc and xmpp Dec 14 08:30:00 in this case I just left a root shell open on an ssh accessible serial console Dec 14 08:30:12 the thing I like about talk is the realtime nature Dec 14 08:30:20 ???? Dec 14 08:30:24 doesn't work for a whole group, but for two people it's fine Dec 14 08:30:34 irc is pretty realtime too Dec 14 08:30:36 xmpp too Dec 14 08:30:51 errr, the part where you can see what the other person is typing, as they type Dec 14 08:30:59 bah Dec 14 08:31:05 with all the corrections Dec 14 08:31:10 yup Dec 14 08:31:11 no thanks Dec 14 08:31:14 works for me Dec 14 08:31:18 I don't make mistakes ever :) Dec 14 08:32:08 johnx: XMPP can do that, I think Dec 14 08:32:14 though I'm not sure any clients support it Dec 14 08:32:34 it's ok Dec 14 08:32:42 what Dec 14 08:32:42 I'm installing a talkd on my server :) Dec 14 08:33:03 zash: see what the other person is typing as they type it Dec 14 08:33:27 johnx and you dont have encryption Dec 14 08:33:52 and that's useful and not distracting .. how? Dec 14 08:34:07 it's a personal preference thing I guess Dec 14 08:34:25 with two people (to me at least) it feels more like a conversation Dec 14 08:34:44 woglinde, so? ssh seems good enough to me... Dec 14 08:35:00 hms maemo-sdk+ suckz sometimes Dec 14 08:35:02 libstdc++-dev: libstdc++-dev can not be used from tools (installed, but not allowed) Dec 14 08:36:45 btw while talking about editing input away from real input line... Dec 14 08:38:25 is this a bug or a feature the virtual kbd doesn't take a CR as a CR. Rather it just paste the edited line to input field and you need to open it again to send the real CR Dec 14 08:39:03 depends on the app it seems Dec 14 08:39:14 kinda odd. So od it has to be a feature Dec 14 08:39:36 I would describe it as a "weirdness" Dec 14 08:39:48 that's a technical term up ^there^ Dec 14 08:41:05 test on xchat with vkbd Dec 14 08:41:22 damn. here it works Dec 14 08:41:29 works in the browser too Dec 14 08:41:46 johnx: google wave :) Dec 14 08:41:50 johnx: so ack. depends on app Dec 14 08:41:55 and yes i remember talk Dec 14 08:42:16 * zash smacks timeless_mbp with a waveformed stick Dec 14 08:42:34 waiting for them to open up the beta of wave a bit. even if I got in, it's worthless without getting a good chunk of my normal contacts in there as well Dec 14 08:42:41 in friggin shell (err xterm) it fails Dec 14 08:43:22 yeah. I think the situation is that osso-xterm is doing something "clever" Dec 14 08:43:48 -lart osso-xterm Dec 14 08:43:56 ~lart osso-xterm Dec 14 08:43:56 * infobot hereby declares osso-xterm a troll Dec 14 08:43:59 bah Dec 14 08:44:56 ahaha. you got trolled my osso-xterm :) Dec 14 08:46:20 johnx: *nod* Dec 14 08:46:26 my dad applied for the beta :) Dec 14 08:46:32 (i got an invite months ago) Dec 14 08:48:08 I wonder how quick an open ssh connection to my server with talk running would eat up the battery on my N900... Dec 14 08:48:31 i'd assume it wouldn't be expensive unless there was a clock in the window or someone typing Dec 14 08:48:41 I'll find out tomorrow Dec 14 08:48:50 johnx: actually not much Dec 14 08:48:55 I'll much with my ssh keepalive and push it up to maybe a minute or so Dec 14 08:49:29 johnx: should suffice Dec 14 08:51:04 johnx: I need a keepalive=300 otherwise the ssh connect stalls eventually Dec 14 08:51:54 not on N900 Dec 14 08:52:12 yeah, same here Dec 14 08:52:19 still not clear on where that's happening Dec 14 08:52:25 maybe at my router? Dec 14 08:52:27 yep Dec 14 08:52:35 I guess Dec 14 08:52:50 NAT session timeout Dec 14 09:01:04 hm do we have a field in control for original maintainer? Dec 14 09:01:35 mv /bin/pulseaudio /home/user fixes N900 performance problems Dec 14 09:01:49 wish i knew wog Dec 14 09:01:50 ManuelSE lol Dec 14 09:01:54 i just have to say that i'm using twm in my debian VM, and i like it, dammit Dec 14 09:02:10 ManuelSE didnt this disable pulseaudio? Dec 14 09:02:20 because you move the binary Dec 14 09:02:21 yes :( Dec 14 09:02:51 i want to bypass Dec 14 09:03:21 ... good luck Dec 14 09:03:22 hm why not dpkg --purge Dec 14 09:03:48 i have maker pentagram in /home/user. then i move pulseaudio bin and kill the process, then i can use n900 Dec 14 09:03:57 I thought pulseaudio comes by default in N900? Dec 14 09:04:05 then i move it back to /bin when i finish Dec 14 09:04:23 yes but it must be killed Dec 14 09:04:28 temporarily Dec 14 09:04:35 ManuelSE hm I see Dec 14 09:05:07 i wven turn autospawn off in .config but this did not help Dec 14 09:09:12 Morning, all Dec 14 09:09:16 hi jaffa Dec 14 09:10:06 ManuelSE: wait, so if i move pulseaudio, it will revert to alsa or something? Dec 14 09:10:35 I'd say if you need to do something to pulseaudio, you're doing something wrong Dec 14 09:10:49 Myrtti: elaborate on that? Dec 14 09:11:18 redeeman: it's a phone, meant for talking and listening to other people Dec 14 09:11:38 yes Dec 14 09:11:43 it's a linux device: it's meant to do whatever root wants it to do Dec 14 09:12:03 well in this case, I would prefer it not to use pulseaudio :) Dec 14 09:12:04 I'd assume poking pulseaudio might have some Really Bad Effects on the phone part Dec 14 09:12:56 but of course, my opinion is worth about the snot of an elephant, because I'm just speculating based on my feelings. Dec 14 09:13:13 and it's your device, so you're allowed to fuck it up too. Dec 14 09:13:15 good luck :-) Dec 14 09:14:10 redeeman, then ManuelSE's method should work fine :) If you want !pulseaudio && "any sound at all" ... well that's different :) Dec 14 09:14:37 i obviously want it to revert to alsa directly :) Dec 14 09:14:41 Myrtti, exactly. The best part about UNIX/Linux is that it comes with enough rope to hang yourself :D Dec 14 09:14:44 which i suspect is not gonna happen Dec 14 09:15:14 well, sure, it might "revert" to alsa just fine, but the question is: Do any of the default apps know how to speak to ALSA directly? Dec 14 09:15:17 individual app can hit hardware like /bin/pulseaudio Dec 14 09:15:39 just need source Dec 14 09:15:42 ManuelSE: but does the individual applications support this? Dec 14 09:15:45 yes well Dec 14 09:15:49 mine would Dec 14 09:15:53 johnx: afaiu we use pulse Dec 14 09:16:01 (we=maemo) Dec 14 09:16:03 johnx: stupidity has unfortunately not been criminalized Dec 14 09:16:09 timeless_mbp, yes. you do. Dec 14 09:16:21 (the browser for the most part doesn't use anything, but when it does, it should use sydney which would use pulse) Dec 14 09:16:23 timeless_mbp is nokia pulseaudio source available? Dec 14 09:16:26 but it seems to have some performance stuff Dec 14 09:16:31 ManuelSE: mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ Dec 14 09:16:33 aeh hits Dec 14 09:16:54 Myrtti, "Now I'm not saying we put a death penalty on stupidity. I'm just saying we take the warning labels off of everything and let things work themselves out." Dec 14 09:17:02 ManuelSE: oddly enough, mxr is in the channel topic.. Dec 14 09:17:16 stupid would be using pulseaudio johnx Dec 14 09:17:20 johnx: that would explain why USA still exi... nvm. Dec 14 09:17:27 * Myrtti goes to hang up some laundry Dec 14 09:18:17 ManuelSE, so, build alsa with dmix, and start migrating your apps to use alsa. In this case, I think nothing is actually stopping you Dec 14 09:18:18 man Dec 14 09:18:25 it looks like newegg can't keep the n900 in stock Dec 14 09:18:31 i wonder how many they're ordering at a time Dec 14 09:18:38 3 Dec 14 09:18:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1HldpVYbwI even arm optimized drnoksnes cannot run fullspeed. see 2:42 Dec 14 09:18:55 i'm going with "bs" on that one :) Dec 14 09:19:14 bs: NaN Dec 14 09:19:17 johnx, i think alsa is on top of pulse Dec 14 09:19:32 erm Dec 14 09:19:35 johnx: you may want to use one of your lifelines Dec 14 09:19:38 :) Dec 14 09:19:39 it can be done of course, but how is pulseaudio accessing the hardware? Dec 14 09:19:46 ManuelSE: that might be for some of the applications Dec 14 09:19:56 yes for compat layer Dec 14 09:20:00 i would guess they set it up so that alsa has an alsa -> pulse for compat Dec 14 09:20:00 it is in wiki Dec 14 09:20:02 and some apps hit that Dec 14 09:20:05 some apps hit pulse directly Dec 14 09:20:08 ManuelSE, ls /dev/snd Dec 14 09:20:09 and pulse goes to the alsa hw device Dec 14 09:20:27 X-Fade: here? Dec 14 09:21:05 when are they opening the Ovi store for the n900? Dec 14 09:22:21 seems there is no other hw-audio-card drivers than ALSA Dec 14 09:22:32 Vratha: sometime before the year 2971 Dec 14 09:23:02 DocScrutinizer51, well, there are different ways to get audio from a linux app to speakers/headphones. Just look at the N8x0/Maemo4 ;) Dec 14 09:23:10 timeless_mbp: thanks; i take it you're clueless then Dec 14 09:23:21 Vratha: more like it isn't announced information Dec 14 09:23:28 and most likely if it was announced, it'd be wrong Dec 14 09:23:28 ah Dec 14 09:23:35 so stop asking stupid questions Dec 14 09:23:44 we can't read tea leaves very well here Dec 14 09:23:55 yeah, it was such a stupid question Dec 14 09:24:02 next time i'll make sure i know all of the internets Dec 14 09:24:03 this is #maemo, not #ovi Dec 14 09:24:08 there aren't any stupid questions, only stupid answers Dec 14 09:24:14 ovi is a nokia entity totally apart from maemo Dec 14 09:24:28 it sure is, but since maemo is used on nokia devices and financially backed bythem Dec 14 09:24:30 Vratha, I'm thinking he took offense to you calling him "clueless" Dec 14 09:24:33 i have a part in ovi! Dec 14 09:24:37 it kinda makes sense to think someone might know Dec 14 09:24:41 johnx: yeah Dec 14 09:24:46 so a usual setup would look like app->alsa2PA->PAserver->PA2alsa-hwdriver Dec 14 09:24:49 Vratha: it also makes sense that no one would know Dec 14 09:24:53 your logic is awful Dec 14 09:24:53 so, you two make up and be friends now :) Dec 14 09:25:09 the odds are that lcuk knows more about their schedule than i an employee Dec 14 09:25:30 i know nothing about their schedule Dec 14 09:25:52 i just felt around the internal mechanics of the ovi Dec 14 09:25:54 timeless_mbp: actually, my logic is built on empirical evidence Dec 14 09:25:55 so... Dec 14 09:26:53 c'mon. better things to argue about: like why my LDAP setup is being a PITA Dec 14 09:26:56 what evidence do you have that anyone in nokia talks to anyone in nokia? Dec 14 09:26:59 i'd love to hear it Dec 14 09:27:09 because i've been with nokia for >3 1/2 years, and i have yet to see it Dec 14 09:27:24 timeless_mbp, LOL Dec 14 09:27:43 timeless_mbp, I have recorded video from the summit! though, maybe that was two Nokia guys overhearing each other talking to other attendees Dec 14 09:27:46 johnx: what's to argue? it's LDAP Dec 14 09:27:59 johnx: correct Dec 14 09:28:20 timeless_mbp, so, what should i use in place of LDAP? (open to suggestions) Dec 14 09:28:24 that's not us talking to nokians, that's nokians talking to other people with nokians eavesdropping :) Dec 14 09:28:28 and don't say NIS :P Dec 14 09:28:34 johnx: heh Dec 14 09:28:35 ah, you would like to call for an appeal to expertise Dec 14 09:28:37 no, sorry Dec 14 09:28:40 i'll get right on with that logical fallacy Dec 14 09:28:47 i actually need sleep now; night Dec 14 09:29:13 Vratha: asking for scheduling information is inappropriate Dec 14 09:29:21 wow, my phone is really hot Dec 14 09:29:22 if there's an announced schedule, it'll be announced somewhere else Dec 14 09:29:26 think ill go for a smoke with it :p Dec 14 09:29:28 in one internet "guy's" opinion Dec 14 09:29:31 either on press.nokia.com, ovi.com, or maemo.nokia.com Dec 14 09:29:57 24h tethered with utorrent running on the main pc - dont think ill leave it on another night like that :P Dec 14 09:29:57 or on engadget, or mobile-review :) Dec 14 09:30:25 or peter@maemo on talk ... Dec 14 09:31:32 red: if it survived one night, then it most likely can stand it arbitrary timespans Dec 14 09:32:00 s/one night/24h Dec 14 09:32:00 though lots of heat will have adverse effects on battery life in the long run Dec 14 09:32:20 johnx: ack Dec 14 09:34:52 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if ther's a hidden receptacle for ext. GSM ant somewhere on N900 Dec 14 09:36:19 ? Dec 14 09:36:27 I bet it's hidden behind where the GSM antenna is plugged in :> Dec 14 09:36:49 lol Dec 14 09:39:19 *&$% you LDAP! I will bend you to my will! Dec 14 09:40:46 johnx can mplayer -ao alsa talk to hw pcm? Dec 14 09:41:02 you know verymmuch, about this Dec 14 09:41:12 no idea Dec 14 09:41:14 never tried it Dec 14 09:41:24 in my case, I'm perfectly happy with pulseaudio :) Dec 14 09:41:36 but it consume so much cpu Dec 14 09:41:54 yeah. it's a crime. mp3s only play for like 20 hours <_< Dec 14 09:41:54 see the video for proof Dec 14 09:42:33 that is too much for high performance applications Dec 14 09:42:43 yes, a software crime Dec 14 09:42:52 ok. good luck with your work Dec 14 09:42:53 made by a manager Dec 14 09:43:31 ok, faster sound coming Dec 14 09:43:31 I'm pretty sure there are some reasonable technical reasons why pulseaudio was used *and* I bet there's a good way to make it take less CPU time Dec 14 09:43:39 friggin calendar doesn't know to simply do "next/prev week/whatever" by simple swipe like desktops :-( Dec 14 09:44:09 DocScrutinizer51, tried that a couple times. are you starting from offscreen (which has a known problem)? Dec 14 09:44:39 ManuelSE, you know why pulseaudio takes up so much CPU time, right? Dec 14 09:44:52 hmm. didn't check Dec 14 09:44:57 johnx: come on, what does PA bring to a portable device that is not available in plain ALSA? Dec 14 09:45:13 PaulFertser, compatibility with gnome apps. Dec 14 09:45:38 johnx: what exactly do you mean? Dec 14 09:45:46 hmm, hmm.. why does one need to install rootsh to get root? it seems that package doesn't provide the gainroot thing, so that obviously is there to begin with, so why install rootsh instead of using just gainroot? Dec 14 09:45:47 k. nevermind Dec 14 09:46:26 PaulFertser, I mean, some gnome apps use pulseaudio, so having pulse makes them easier to port Dec 14 09:46:35 redeeman, try using gainroot without rootsh installed Dec 14 09:46:48 PaulFertser, anyways. I won't defend Nokia's decisions for them. Find their sound guy if you want to debate the merits of alsa vs pulse Dec 14 09:47:13 pulseaudio takes up a heap of cpu cycles because they hired microsoft programmers Dec 14 09:47:15 zing! Dec 14 09:47:19 johnx: (find their sound guy) sounds like an easy task, right? Dec 14 09:47:20 PaulFertser: roughly, pulse is the solution that's winning Dec 14 09:47:21 (irony) Dec 14 09:47:33 so trying to demand everyone use alsa is a waste of breath Dec 14 09:47:36 johnx: well reading the script, it doesn't use either the root or rootsh binary provided by rootsh, so why wouldn't it work? Dec 14 09:47:45 if you want to waste your breath, be my guest, but please, not here Dec 14 09:48:08 but lol, using pulse also uses alsa Dec 14 09:48:10 redeeman, part of the rootsh installation flips a bit in gainroots config, I believe Dec 14 09:48:12 so pulse is hardly winning Dec 14 09:48:20 johnx: oh Dec 14 09:48:24 timeless_mbp: you say pulse is winning but it's not exactly correct. It's winning only on desktop GNU/Linux distros. And it uses alsa driver to output any actual sound. Dec 14 09:48:50 PaulFertser: so erm Dec 14 09:48:59 you want us to actively diverge from the desktop distros Dec 14 09:49:00 timeless_mbp: it has particular advantages and cool architecture etc but it doesn't make it immediately the most suitable thing to use on a portable device. Dec 14 09:49:04 where all real dev work is done Dec 14 09:49:10 and where the real interesting potential apps come from Dec 14 09:49:19 PaulFertser: it's wining on mobile platforms too. you know android doesn't use alsa right? Dec 14 09:49:32 and where the people who understand how to write audio apps live Dec 14 09:49:32 so that's basically pulse 1 alsa 0 Dec 14 09:49:35 ali1234: what does it use then? Dec 14 09:49:37 timeless_mbp: not really, can you tell me about any app you use that doesn't have ALSA output capability and is PA-only? Dec 14 09:49:43 redeeman: it uses binary blobs Dec 14 09:49:48 i see Dec 14 09:49:55 ali1234: i doubt android uses PA. Dec 14 09:49:56 well that's even worse than pulse -> alsa Dec 14 09:50:05 ali1234: also android is POS, so it doesn't prove anything at all ever. Dec 14 09:50:20 PaulFertser: where are all these mobile phones that use only alsa, and not pulse? Dec 14 09:50:47 ali1234: where're those apps that use only PA and not alsa? Dec 14 09:51:15 PaulFertser: pulseaudio is not a driver api Dec 14 09:51:27 ali1234: you bet i know Dec 14 09:51:32 ManuelSE, so anyways, pulseaudio takes up so much time because apparently it does some weird digital amplification to make sound coming out of the speakers sound louder without being totally distorted Dec 14 09:51:42 PaulFertser: but since you ask, any sound app that is running on anything other than linux Dec 14 09:51:43 ali1234: neither alsalib is a driver api. Dec 14 09:51:52 and using pulse Dec 14 09:52:19 ali1234: give me an example of any widely deployed app that can use pulse but can't use alsa directly. Please. Dec 14 09:52:22 PaulFertser, do you just lurk in wait for these topics to come up? Dec 14 09:52:23 ali1234++ Dec 14 09:52:29 PaulFertser: SDL on N900 Dec 14 09:53:01 sdl could just have been compiled with alsa enabled Dec 14 09:53:02 ali1234: SDL does support alsa directly, so any SDL app can use alsa directly. Dec 14 09:53:07 just try disabling pulse, and notice how SDL fails to fall back to using alsa Dec 14 09:53:18 johnx: I was starting to wonder whether he comes here exclusively to complain Dec 14 09:53:26 So is it pulseaudios fault that N900 media player has this weird sounds Compression? Dec 14 09:53:28 ali1234: means sdl is compiled without alsa output plugin, just that... Dec 14 09:53:38 yeah, so? Dec 14 09:53:47 johnx - shh its fun to watch people argue over pointless shit Dec 14 09:53:49 ali1234: you proved nothing by this example, i'm afraid. Dec 14 09:53:49 I can hear on silent parts that the sound goes up and down and its driving me mad since I compose music and that kinda master compression is just plain wrong Dec 14 09:53:50 ali1234: " any sound app that is running on anything other than linux" <-- not true, they support multiple apis then Dec 14 09:54:15 red: erhm, pulseaudio definitely does something aswell, as its eating lots of cpu Dec 14 09:54:22 Termana, eh. I was hoping to get ManuelSE to do some work for me, in terms of reducing CPU usage of pulseaudio :P Dec 14 09:54:42 redeeman: thats what I was afraid of. However I don't understand those things that deeply (apis etc) Dec 14 09:54:47 johnx: w00t but PA is not pointless shit. It's really interesting to see some sane examples of using it. Also when we tried PA on openmoko we were quite disappointed by numerous bugs, including arm-specific. It's not pointless talk! Dec 14 09:54:48 red, interesting. I wonder if we can find a way to tweak that setting somewhere in PA... Dec 14 09:54:55 johnx - yeah, and then all THIS started Dec 14 09:54:59 PaulFertser: you proved nothing other than that pulseaudio is not a driver Dec 14 09:55:07 red: well either its some processing, or a huge bug, probably its some form of resampling Dec 14 09:55:13 johnx: I went through all sound settings and media player settings without finding a way to disable the compression Dec 14 09:55:24 resampling wont compress the audio Dec 14 09:55:27 PaulFertser, not pointless to talk about its technical merits, which was not the discussion happening Dec 14 09:55:28 i don't know about its media player though, i don't use it Dec 14 09:55:42 PaulFertser: yes, but you do this with *everything*, and you never have anything positive to contribute other than "you're doing everything wrong", which doesn't really work in a community setting Dec 14 09:55:48 red, as in you dug around in /etc? Dec 14 09:55:50 like a limiter/compressor does (amplify sounds until a spike would distort, then reduce the sound and slowly gain it upwards) Dec 14 09:55:52 good moring Dec 14 09:55:56 hrm Dec 14 09:55:56 ali1234: i was not intending to prove. I just asked why do you guys thought using PA is better than using plain alsa. You told there're some apps that can't use alsa but can use pa. But you failed to provide an example. Dec 14 09:56:01 johnx: thats out of my expertise I'm afraid Dec 14 09:56:04 red: that sounds insane Dec 14 09:56:04 hm Dec 14 09:56:19 red, great. I'll look there and see if I can find anything Dec 14 09:56:21 I am to lazy to send my pulse-patches in Dec 14 09:56:23 PaulFertser: if it wasn't pointless, you'd be finding ways to do something about it if at least bringing it up somewhere where change might occur or you might get an explanation, but all you seem to do is vocalise, constantly Dec 14 09:56:32 but they are only for a minority Dec 14 09:56:33 PaulFertser: because using plain alsa is not an option without a software mixer such as pulseaudio Dec 14 09:56:35 w00t: give me n900 schematics and i'll contribute an answer to the n900 usb host mode questions. Dec 14 09:56:37 like using uClinc Dec 14 09:56:39 see? Dec 14 09:56:41 args uClibc Dec 14 09:56:42 you're doing it again Dec 14 09:56:43 johnx: it might be called compression or limiting Dec 14 09:57:07 you basically have a choice between esound, arts, dmix, and pulseaudio. only one of those isn't total garbage Dec 14 09:57:16 ali1234: fyi alsa includes software mixer that is not any worse than PA's given possible usecases. Dec 14 09:57:21 ali1234: not so, explain how my desktop does fine with pure alsa then? Dec 14 09:57:23 red, would it be similar to what happens with too much "pre-amp"? (is that the right word?) Dec 14 09:57:30 Audio level compression - in which the dynamic range (difference between loud and quiet) of an audio waveform is reduced. Dec 14 09:57:43 redeeman: you're using dmix and don't know it because you happen to be one of the 1% of people for whom it actually works Dec 14 09:57:47 and/or amplified using gain in the end Dec 14 09:58:04 w00t: also i did some little stuff to help compile mer on debian stable thus giving an ability to run it on armv4 targets. Dec 14 09:58:14 ali1234: i know exactly what im using, and i happen to not be using dmix, and furthermore, dmix works for everyone that doesn't use a distribution that has deliberately fucked it up Dec 14 09:58:27 johnx: I'm unsure if I can explain it in better terms in english :( Dec 14 09:58:38 w00t: i'm not constantly complaining. I just asked about PA. Just asked. Why do you want to mistreat my questions? Dec 14 09:58:39 PaulFertser: yes, and that's great, but that's one contribution out of hours of discussions which go around and around in circles and never seem to get anywhere remotely close to productive Dec 14 09:58:41 I'll try to give an example Dec 14 09:58:47 johnx sorry -was away - yes pulseaudio load is lower with head,hones Dec 14 09:58:51 redeeman: oh so you're one of that other 1% of people who has a soundcard with hardware mixing and a working alsa driver? Dec 14 09:59:06 heh ali Dec 14 09:59:12 ali1234: i do not have hardware mixing Dec 14 09:59:26 w00t: wanna see an example of using per-application softvol controls in pure alsa? Is it pointless? Dec 14 09:59:31 either way, dmix does work Dec 14 09:59:32 all we need is for a couple games/emus to bypass pulse Dec 14 09:59:34 redeeman: heh, then i guess your definition of "working" is only playing sound in one app at a time? Dec 14 09:59:39 PaulFertser: donotcare Dec 14 09:59:48 PaulFertser: harping on about it here constantly isn't going to do anything Dec 14 09:59:51 ali1234: yes, that is what i wish to happen 99% of the time, when i want something else, i use dmix Dec 14 10:00:06 * timeless_mbp resolves redeeman as broken Dec 14 10:00:15 and dmix does work Dec 14 10:00:21 take a trance song and you know they have these silent parts when the song is starting to go to a uplift -- that silent part is far away from "peak volume" so the compression kicks in and brings the volume higher, until some sound would peak to digital distortion, during when it pumps the volume down fast, again letting it be louder until some other sound would go to distort.. It's good for getting oldies play louder, but it's an awful thing to make "always on" Dec 14 10:00:22 but im guessing your testing of dmix involves installing ubuntu Dec 14 10:00:22 redeeman, most people want multi sound playback from OS Dec 14 10:00:24 and concluding it doesn't work Dec 14 10:00:31 ManuelSE: which alsa can do aswell Dec 14 10:00:37 yeah i use dmix Dec 14 10:00:47 w00t: i asked about PA but got a rough and pointless argument instead. That's what happened. I'm not doing what you're accusing me of :| Dec 14 10:01:09 i have to read all this discussion now Dec 14 10:01:12 if pulse has this performance problems it should be not used or fixed Dec 14 10:01:13 just wondering if its due PA or what :P Dec 14 10:01:25 You people are too used to holy wars, can't even discuss issues based on the technical merits :| Dec 14 10:01:27 red: i would not expect your issue to be because of pulseaudio, but its just a guess Dec 14 10:01:31 redeeman: actually it involves using various distros over the past 10 years and ubuntu being the first one to actually have working sound that doesn't mysteriously stop working when some random app blocks the sound card Dec 14 10:01:52 and all this time could've been used productively, like washing laundry, or making brunch. Dec 14 10:01:56 alright Dec 14 10:02:10 heres for hoping someone will discover what causes it and how to disable it Dec 14 10:02:13 PaulFertser: there are no holy wars Dec 14 10:02:16 only wastes of effort Dec 14 10:02:17 Myrtti or fix pa Dec 14 10:02:20 I do notice it affecting alot less on lower volume thought Dec 14 10:02:21 this is a community Dec 14 10:02:21 red, looking at the config right now, but it'll take a while before I can figure out what's "safe" to change :) Dec 14 10:02:25 hm nxcomp is in Dec 14 10:02:31 now nxssh and nxproxy Dec 14 10:02:32 Myrtti: hey, my productivity for the day is going fine, two bugs fixed, mail dealt with, and it's only 10am Dec 14 10:02:45 nokia happens to have picked the same solution that various other desktop vendors have picked Dec 14 10:02:47 PaulFertser, you didn't give a single technical merit, either. Also: You're discussing things with people who have no control over Nokia's direction in this regard Dec 14 10:02:48 timeless_mbp: i asked the community why they use PA and got only bashing in response, thanks Dec 14 10:02:51 w00t: great! Dec 14 10:02:52 you've acknowledged that Dec 14 10:02:54 johnx: thats fine. I'm not expecting anyone to fix this for me just because I whine on IRC :D Dec 14 10:02:57 johnx: summarised perfectly, thanks Dec 14 10:02:59 PaulFertser: um, no Dec 14 10:03:04 nokia chose pulse Dec 14 10:03:15 asking the community will get you precisely what you got Dec 14 10:03:29 it wasn't a community decision Dec 14 10:03:37 the community might still know though Dec 14 10:03:42 but from the looks of it, this community would have chosen pulse anyway Dec 14 10:03:48 and the reasons they would have are roughly above Dec 14 10:03:48 timeless_mbp how much lennart payed? Dec 14 10:03:53 pulse is the only sane choice Dec 14 10:04:01 woglinde: we don't discuss salaries Dec 14 10:04:06 red, no worries. If I figure anything out, I'll need you to test :) Dec 14 10:04:07 *g* Dec 14 10:04:16 woglinde: any other stupid questions? :) Dec 14 10:04:17 johnx: (single technical merit) i didn't because it's obvious: PA is/was known to cause problems every now and then, it's an additional resource hog and indirection layer anywhere. It's obviously a complication comparing to plain alsa setup. That's pro-alsa argument, and it's obvious. I wanted to hear any pro-PA argument. Dec 14 10:04:20 hi all Dec 14 10:04:21 timeless_mbp: $5 if you switch to OSS Dec 14 10:04:28 * w00t dons flameproof underwear Dec 14 10:04:37 w00t: my group switched to sydney :) Dec 14 10:04:48 to what? never heard of that Dec 14 10:05:07 I extensively tried the GPS & navigation stuff of the N900 this week-end and I'm very disappointed :( Anyone got problems with it too ? Dec 14 10:05:11 http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/foms-lca-recap.html Dec 14 10:05:21 hmm pulseaudio appears to be set for 48khz Dec 14 10:05:29 that will obviously require it to resample on most audio Dec 14 10:05:35 48khz is fine Dec 14 10:05:49 Hey guys, a silly question.. where are e.g. the pictures locted on the n900 filesystem? I was thinking that I could just scp them to my laptop hazzle-free.. Dec 14 10:05:59 MyDocs Dec 14 10:06:05 s/locted/located Dec 14 10:06:07 Hmm Dec 14 10:06:09 Laiska: ~/MyDocs/.something probably Dec 14 10:06:17 Laiska depends on the apps Dec 14 10:06:19 Laiska, /home/user/MyDocs/.images Dec 14 10:06:21 Laiska: which 'pictures' Dec 14 10:06:28 photos are ~/MyDocs/DCIM Dec 14 10:06:43 which is labeled "Camera" or "Photos" or {your ****py localized string here} Dec 14 10:06:53 pictures are typically ~/MyDocs/.images Dec 14 10:06:59 timeless_mbp: hmm, interesting, thanks Dec 14 10:07:02 screenshots are ~/MyDocs/.images/Screenshots/ Dec 14 10:07:14 DCIM was the answer I was looking for, thanks timeless_mbp Dec 14 10:07:20 and image viewer will roughly speaking show any image anywhere in ~/MyDocs Dec 14 10:07:22 hm oh it has its screenshot funktion now Dec 14 10:07:24 the speakerprotection thingy probably uses more cpu than any resampling.. :) Dec 14 10:07:25 PaulFertser, maybe they just wanted to be forward-looking with sound arch. Dec 14 10:07:28 woglinde: ctrl-shift-p Dec 14 10:07:29 redeeman: quite possibly you and me know much more about alsa and PA than ali1234 and yet "the community" makes me look wrong and pointless, what a day... Dec 14 10:07:41 timeless_mbp was this on diablo too? Dec 14 10:07:41 Other answers good2know stuff also :) Dec 14 10:07:46 woglinde: no Dec 14 10:07:46 I awlays installed gpe-scap Dec 14 10:07:49 ah Dec 14 10:07:51 good Dec 14 10:07:55 'good'? :) Dec 14 10:07:55 PaulFertser: next will you ask what QT offers a mobile platform over ncurses? Dec 14 10:08:02 shadowjk, how about an alternate pulse speaker sink with volume limiter Dec 14 10:08:16 hoi pupnik Dec 14 10:08:24 hi Dec 14 10:08:27 PaulFertser: so, get hired by nokia and get them to change their mind Dec 14 10:08:37 instead of eq Dec 14 10:08:40 ShadowJK: what speaker protection Dec 14 10:08:40 ali1234: do you have any PA or ALSA patch accepted upstream? Dec 14 10:08:43 red, johnx: just read through the pulseaudio config files, there appears to be nothing that suggests any filtering like what you experience Dec 14 10:08:44 red, does that compression happen through headphones too? Dec 14 10:08:47 ShadowJK: like a master limiter? Dec 14 10:08:54 redeeman -hidden Dec 14 10:09:00 PaulFertser: what does that have to do with anything? Dec 14 10:09:05 ShadowJK: not that I've noticed. I havent listened with headphones much yet Dec 14 10:09:09 pupnik: ? Dec 14 10:09:12 only videos Dec 14 10:09:27 ali1234: well, that would probably tell something about your depth of understanding the issues... Dec 14 10:09:38 i also liiked in config - they did not expose speaker protection there -aict Dec 14 10:09:59 red, i don't know the full story, but apparently you can kill the speakers or make then sound like crap, and there's this pulseaudio module running when you listen through speakers Dec 14 10:10:07 yes Dec 14 10:10:07 so there's less CPU use when listening through headphones, too Dec 14 10:10:13 yes Dec 14 10:10:35 timeless_mbp: you sound like questioning _any_ nokia decision here is asking for trouble :( Dec 14 10:10:43 ah yes, well I could care less about using the phones built in speakers :) Dec 14 10:10:45 nokia can not tell us how to break the speakers Dec 14 10:10:46 PaulFertser: roughly it's a waste of time Dec 14 10:10:58 red, so this compression you described, was that through headphones? Dec 14 10:10:59 we must find this ourselves :) Dec 14 10:11:00 PaulFertser, asking people to defend decisions made by other people generally is a waste of time, yes Dec 14 10:11:02 provide a patch or a demo Dec 14 10:11:08 but ShadowJK I guess it counts as speaker when using a 3,5mm plug to drive audio to car stereo :p Dec 14 10:11:15 just big headphones ;) Dec 14 10:11:25 Aah scp worked like a dream, this is excellent as I hate connecting cables/BT pairing etc.. + easy to make scripts for automated upload Dec 14 10:11:56 red, nah that's using the headphone output and that bypasses that speakerprotection thing. Now to find out whether it's the n900 or your car stereo doing compression Dec 14 10:11:56 Laiska, if you like scp, you'll love rsync :) Dec 14 10:12:13 my car stereo is definetly not compressing Dec 14 10:12:16 johnx dont see much effort there Dec 14 10:12:17 johnx: paul wasn't asking for defence. He was asking why PA is used Dec 14 10:12:28 ali1234: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/bz/archives/016571.html comes to mind Dec 14 10:12:31 been using it 3 years, via sony walkman, iphone, usb mass storage and cd's Dec 14 10:12:36 none of which have the same symptom Dec 14 10:12:42 Oh yeah, rsync.. Dec 14 10:12:42 DocScrutinizer: "because someone at nokia picked it" Dec 14 10:12:43 hm :( Dec 14 10:13:04 but roughly "because it's the solution people are comfortable with and which is used on the desktop" Dec 14 10:13:14 it's also "the one with active development/support" Dec 14 10:13:18 DocScrutinizer, s/defend/explain/ Dec 14 10:13:24 when pa was announced to be used in maemo5 how many years ago, everybody was like "yay \o/, go nokia!" heh Dec 14 10:13:25 paulfertser, while I indeed have problems with PA on my desktop setup, I have no problem having it on my n900.. for example it looks like its application-specific mixer setting capabilities have been taken into good use. Dec 14 10:13:34 and nokia likes to support the standard open source projects, because it makes us look like good guys Dec 14 10:13:39 next question: 'do we (the community) think that's a wise decision?' Dec 14 10:13:45 ShadowJK, because it replaced esound outputting to the DSP :P Dec 14 10:13:51 DocScrutinizer: i think that's an unwise question Dec 14 10:13:58 johnx: (defending others' decisions) it's an interesting conception, i thought that defending others' opinions is an opportunity to learn and to find important technical points. Dec 14 10:14:04 but the community of #maemo has already above stated "yes" Dec 14 10:14:16 PaulFertser: no, it's an opportunity to annoy people Dec 14 10:14:21 please stop doing it. Dec 14 10:14:33 PaulFertser you have your answer Dec 14 10:14:35 when i go to a class and ask questions of my teacher Dec 14 10:14:36 * w00t agrees Dec 14 10:14:38 my teacher is paid to answer my questions Dec 14 10:14:39 PaulFertser, great. Pretend you're Nokia and chose pulse. Why did you do it? Dec 14 10:14:40 even if you dont like it Dec 14 10:14:42 no matter how stupid Dec 14 10:14:50 but my teacher is paid to do this Dec 14 10:15:01 if i were a researcher and these people were filling in a survey for me Dec 14 10:15:03 i'd have to pay them too Dec 14 10:15:05 instead of arguing about PA today and now, it'd be smarter to go look at the roadmap of maemo6/7 because it's too late for changes in m5 Dec 14 10:15:10 either with movie tickets, or dinner, or real cash Dec 14 10:15:15 so, stop abusing the community Dec 14 10:15:23 if you want to do this survey, offer people some compensation Dec 14 10:15:40 i am sure pa will be fine Dec 14 10:15:46 johnx: Why? To torture me of course Dec 14 10:15:46 timeless_mbp: i see you're quite important member of the community, shaping its opinions in a fast and perfect style. Dec 14 10:15:49 * timeless_mbp would suggest looking at m7 since m6 is probably close to frozen on feature set Dec 14 10:15:58 PaulFertser: you're learning. Dec 14 10:16:00 good. Dec 14 10:16:13 * RST38h does not see the point of this discussion: whatever audio framework nokia would choose, it would still be crap Dec 14 10:16:14 heh. so how much overhead would there be to add dmix to alsa? Dec 14 10:16:28 The last working audio framework in Unix was /dev/dsp Dec 14 10:16:32 johnx someone has to do it Dec 14 10:16:36 RST38h: heh Dec 14 10:16:45 there's a reason why other desktop distros abandoned dmix... it's broken Dec 14 10:17:07 bah Dec 14 10:17:14 woglinde, yeah. but the source is there, and it shouldn't be *too* hard. I mean, if it wouldn't add a ton of overhead, maybe I could even do it *shrugs* Dec 14 10:17:53 johnx: surely you have better things to do? Dec 14 10:17:56 i know i do Dec 14 10:18:06 *g* Dec 14 10:18:09 (like streaming a live broadcast to two groups in <6hrs Dec 14 10:18:11 ) Dec 14 10:18:21 johnx: looking at n810 i see nokia didn't implement proper alsa support at all, most probably due to not perfect correspondence of alsa architecture with hardware. So they decided to go the easy route providing a simple kernel driver and a custom userspace solution (esd plugin). Dec 14 10:18:24 (groups = distinct streaming servers, including akamai) Dec 14 10:18:51 johnx: given they didn't face any obstacles with that probably they decided to do the same on n900, just using more sane PA instead of the shitty esd. Dec 14 10:19:18 there's alsa on n900 Dec 14 10:19:22 good monring Dec 14 10:19:23 * ShadowJK uses mplayer with it Dec 14 10:19:24 "didn't face any obstacles" Dec 14 10:19:27 oh sure Dec 14 10:19:30 *morning (too early) Dec 14 10:19:33 ShadowJK: there's alsa on n810 but it doesn't work fast/properly. Dec 14 10:19:35 ShadowJK *g* read the discussion from beginning Dec 14 10:19:41 from RPM "PA is a repleacement for esd" Dec 14 10:19:42 PaulFertser, you don't know the half of it. :) Sound output comes from the DSP on the N8x0, so the kernel doesn't even get the final say on it Dec 14 10:19:56 johnx: i know about that. Dec 14 10:20:11 * RST38h has never seen fully working alsa Dec 14 10:20:18 rst fully? Dec 14 10:20:22 well then you should look at mine Dec 14 10:20:28 johnx: doesn't mean that there can't be proper alsa driver (and additional interfaces) implemented to do it more standard (in Linux world) way. Dec 14 10:20:29 timeless_mbp, I am somewhat curious if cutting out pulseaudio would actually reduce battery load Dec 14 10:20:43 redeeman: just means you have not digged deep enough Dec 14 10:20:45 pulse is the standard linux desktop these days.. Dec 14 10:20:52 PaulFertser, there were, eventually. (at least for the N810, but not the N800) Dec 14 10:20:55 fedora doesn't even have dmix anymore, atleast not out of the box Dec 14 10:20:56 ShadowJK not here Dec 14 10:20:59 here it dont works Dec 14 10:21:17 woglinde: (compiling alsa with dmix) should be trivial, probably it's even done this way in maemo. Dec 14 10:21:17 Shadow: s/these days/of the hour/ Dec 14 10:21:30 johnx: roughly, i'm sure it would Dec 14 10:21:41 PaulFertser hm I didnt complain about it Dec 14 10:21:46 because pulse is usually eating 80% of the cpu :) Dec 14 10:21:47 does anybody know how to make the n900 to pull all the contacts from the various IM accounts? Dec 14 10:21:49 johnx: are you sure n810 alsa driver works "ok"? Because in my experience it doesn't, the sound skips or breaks. Dec 14 10:22:08 johnx: but, the question is could one easily replace it with something else and not lose features Dec 14 10:22:17 from hearing it discussed as a culprit internally Dec 14 10:22:20 PaulFertser, I never claimed it worked "ok." I only claimed that it existed ;) Dec 14 10:22:25 it's clear that no one internally has ever suggested that Dec 14 10:22:32 which implies they don't consider it feasible Dec 14 10:22:44 and the guys who work on sound/multimedia are smart Dec 14 10:22:56 probably dogmatic too Dec 14 10:23:01 if they're not even considering it, i have faith that they have good reasons not to Dec 14 10:23:01 Right. Lots of stuff probably depends on it, on Maemo at least Dec 14 10:23:01 johnx: i never denied it. But you see, i gave a possible reasonably sounding explanation to why nokia choosed PA, didn't i? Dec 14 10:23:17 johnx: actually Dec 14 10:23:22 i would have no problem with PA on the N900 if it didn't eat so much cpu Dec 14 10:23:24 i think lots of things use canberra (?) or sydney Dec 14 10:23:24 PaulFertser, ah. Right. That you did :) Dec 14 10:23:37 dmix doesn't even come close to handlign what the n900 needs Dec 14 10:23:45 timeless_mbp: people are fallible, too, it is possible that it simply has been overlooked, but I wonder how it could be brought to their attention Dec 14 10:23:55 think bluetooth headsets for example Dec 14 10:23:57 johnx: i was hoping to hear that from "the community" so i would have an opporutinity to present an alternative pov. Dec 14 10:24:06 timeless_mbp, so what I'm thinking is pulseaudio -> alsa-dmix -> alsa-hw Dec 14 10:24:36 w00t: one person is fallible, a team of 4-8 would only rule something out if there's a good reason Dec 14 10:24:39 like "not enough time" Dec 14 10:24:45 timeless_mbp: (of course, I'm probably wrong, but it'd perhaps be good to get an official viewpoint on whether it's possible.. or what the pitfalls are) Dec 14 10:24:48 given that they had at times not more than a month Dec 14 10:25:04 zaheerm: are you sure you need real-time rerounting between A2DP and wired output? I'd choose more performance over this minor feature. Dec 14 10:25:07 i'm willing to accept your idea as "theoretically possible, but not implementable within the time alloted" Dec 14 10:25:15 note that maemo 5 is roughly speaking api frozen Dec 14 10:25:24 even if they wanted to replace pulse, they couldn't Dec 14 10:25:31 yeah, talking for future here, obviously Dec 14 10:25:36 the final sdk shipped, the sales product shipped Dec 14 10:25:46 PaulFertser, yes, when i am on a phone call and my car's bluetooth connects i want it real-time not 2 seconds gap of no sound Dec 14 10:25:52 but given that alsa does not seem to be the way of the future Dec 14 10:26:01 anyway, libcanberra is the other one Dec 14 10:26:19 zaheerm: well, that would be a reasonable usecase, too bad i got bashed by "the community" before hearing about it. Dec 14 10:26:21 zaheerm: what, you want a working piece of consumer electronics? Dec 14 10:26:31 free open source, high latency linux isn't good enough for you? Dec 14 10:26:35 i wonder that lennart didn't investigate PA's high cpu load on n900 yet, as he got a n900 on the summit Dec 14 10:26:39 timeless_mbp aeh so what will be in kernel? Dec 14 10:26:41 timeless_mbp, yes hence the ened for pulseaudio Dec 14 10:26:46 have to poke him on occasion Dec 14 10:26:51 tbf, there are pulseaudio hackers inside nokia too Dec 14 10:27:21 timeless_mbp, libcanberra is for naming and theming of audio event sounds Dec 14 10:27:22 tbf lennart has no unit tests so what you expect Dec 14 10:27:24 zaheerm: still i wonder that lennart didn't look yet Dec 14 10:27:38 tbf, he probably has looked, sure Dec 14 10:27:44 tbf he even dont test then other libc's Dec 14 10:27:48 * timeless_mbp remembers having lunch w/ lennart @nokia .hel Dec 14 10:27:54 (and also meeting him elsewhere) Dec 14 10:27:55 i don't have any issues with PA on my n900, it mostly works fine Dec 14 10:28:05 * RST38h wonders if it is worth mentioning that PA hangs your application when there is media player running Dec 14 10:28:21 zaheerm: and PA really is the stuff needed for a device like the n900 Dec 14 10:28:32 And that it required a reboot, at least until 42.11 Dec 14 10:28:34 RST38h: roughly speaking audio is supposed to be a high priority task Dec 14 10:28:42 zaheerm: just the amount of CPU time it spends on audio playback is confusing Dec 14 10:28:43 iiuc Dec 14 10:28:44 tbf, that or some proprietary crap that nokia internally wopuld have created, i'd rather pulseaudio Dec 14 10:28:50 Oh, it has nothing to do with priority Dec 14 10:29:00 RST38h: besides 42.11 is sales Dec 14 10:29:03 nothing before that matters Dec 14 10:29:14 tbf maybee someone should point lennart to oprofile Dec 14 10:29:17 Has everything to do with PA being a pile of crap that has never been debugged properly Dec 14 10:29:32 RST38h: so go debug it Dec 14 10:29:35 zaheerm: knowing how doing nokia internal crap works, i am pretty happy that they choose PA Dec 14 10:29:40 woglinde, he knows a lot about oprofile, he also wriote a profiler for lock contention to improve performance in pa Dec 14 10:29:40 Well, all my apps have been recompiled to work around this problem, so I can't test Dec 14 10:29:41 woglinde: i am pretty sure he knows Dec 14 10:29:44 tbf++ Dec 14 10:29:55 timeless: no, you debug it folks Dec 14 10:30:07 * RST38h has stuff to debug Dec 14 10:30:24 RST38h: be careful, you're talking against "the community" now, wasting everyone's time. Dec 14 10:30:27 * timeless_mbp pokes avs Dec 14 10:30:34 we need to talk; lunch? Dec 14 10:30:36 zaheerm, tbf was only joke Dec 14 10:30:53 so, all the PA modules are open source, right? Dec 14 10:31:00 johny jo Dec 14 10:31:05 args johnx Dec 14 10:31:17 if there isnt a hidden dsp Dec 14 10:31:21 modul Dec 14 10:31:21 Ok, the PA bug is still very much present in 42.11 Dec 14 10:31:26 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/pulseaudio/ Dec 14 10:31:39 So, yes, your sales N900 device can hang any moment Dec 14 10:32:17 * RST38h just hung his Dec 14 10:32:24 pupnik, thanks. was being lazy :) Dec 14 10:32:49 johnx: I actually traced down the problem to PA thread hanging waiting for some resource Dec 14 10:33:07 jahnx: It never proceeds so when you shut PA down and wait for the thread to finish, you hang Dec 14 10:33:10 RST38h, your "hang" bug? or the "high CPU usage" bug? Dec 14 10:33:17 johnx: the hang one Dec 14 10:33:25 johnx: I suspect high cpu usage is not a bug :) Dec 14 10:33:42 intended to keep your hands warm in a Finnish winter? :P Dec 14 10:33:48 I remember mentioning last year pulseaudio chewing through 15% CPU on my 2.83GHz quad-core, and everyone ignored me :-) Dec 14 10:33:49 johnx: RST38h: i wonder what happens if you "just" install PA from upstream Dec 14 10:33:59 tbf, horrible breakage Dec 14 10:34:01 johnx: Intended to keep lennart's megalomania satisfied :) Dec 14 10:34:03 tbf, http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/pulseaudio/debian/patches/ Dec 14 10:34:12 tbf: It breaks. Why? Dec 14 10:34:13 red: hi, are you experiencing the compression when using headphones? Dec 14 10:34:31 johnx: RST38h: because of the big amount of patches Dec 14 10:34:52 johnx: RST38h: wonder if one of the pack ports is not proper.... Dec 14 10:34:59 tbf, the big amount of patches and the modules labeled "nokia-" Dec 14 10:35:00 xorAxAx, he was using headphone -> carstereo. He mentioned many other devices with which the same setup didn't result in compression Dec 14 10:35:09 ...or if lennart fixed those issues upstream already and a backport is missing Dec 14 10:35:22 tbf: Nokia's hw is so different from the basic PC hw, that I doubt it matters Dec 14 10:35:37 ShadowJK: well, it might be a misadaptation of the output Dec 14 10:35:39 tbf: Although the hangup bug does look pretty generic Dec 14 10:35:58 red: you should try with headphones only Dec 14 10:36:01 RST38h: so if you know the place where it happens you might want to compare with upstream Dec 14 10:36:20 tbf: I just want it to work. Dec 14 10:36:42 there's also another known bug in pulseaudio (was upstream for ages and still plagues distros) where pausing causes hangs :-) Dec 14 10:36:44 tbf: Have done some investigation, as a courtesy, and to satisfy academic curiosity Dec 14 10:36:44 rst38h ali1234 what do you guys say to do if my game needs more cpu while streaming sound Dec 14 10:36:55 tbf: But I am definitely NOT the right guy to fix this Dec 14 10:37:33 no resampling, no eq, and maybe no mixing Dec 14 10:37:44 RST38h: did you report your findings at bugs.maemo.org at least? Dec 14 10:37:48 pupnik: I would start by using the native sampling rate Dec 14 10:37:54 hmm I see. dmix *is* broken. And PA is super Dec 14 10:37:57 sure Dec 14 10:37:57 there's eq? Dec 14 10:38:00 (to give some PA hackers a chance to fix it?) Dec 14 10:38:24 eq probably uses loads of CPU :) Dec 14 10:38:26 yes Dec 14 10:38:26 tbf; Of course Dec 14 10:38:31 yes Dec 14 10:38:35 ok Dec 14 10:38:43 I remember that was like 10-20% on a P3-733MHz, which is way faster than n900 cpu Dec 14 10:38:54 quite a smart bunch of people Dec 14 10:38:56 xorAxAx: I use a 3,5mm jack to connect the phone to different audio devices and experience it that way. I do not use the phones own speakers to play back anything really. I'll test around how using just headphones in the 3,5mm jack when i get to home Dec 14 10:39:13 and 100% sure the devices I plug it in are not responsible for the compression Dec 14 10:39:18 anyone figure out TCP streams on pulseaudio on n900 yet? Dec 14 10:39:48 pupnik: Basically, you want to spare this feeble attempt at audio framework as much work as you can Dec 14 10:39:53 red: ah, ok Dec 14 10:39:59 pupnik: I.e. native sampling rate, native sample format, etc Dec 14 10:40:06 red: sounds like a real bugger, file a bug! Dec 14 10:40:08 RST38h: if you have stack traces + a rough set of steps to reproduce Dec 14 10:40:10 you can file a bug Dec 14 10:40:21 1. I filed the bug already Dec 14 10:40:25 url? Dec 14 10:40:31 2. I do not have stack traces (do not be silly) Dec 14 10:40:40 why don't you have stack traces? Dec 14 10:40:49 getting a core file is not hard Dec 14 10:40:51 3. There is no crash, just a hangup Dec 14 10:41:05 sure, you can create a core file from a running process Dec 14 10:41:09 * RST38h sighs Dec 14 10:41:15 cores are a convenient format for transmitting data about a process Dec 14 10:41:24 they don't have to be from when the process *dies* Dec 14 10:41:27 xorAxAx: I guess I will, but I think I'll try to get "hard" evidence about it. Record the fluctuations in dynamic range via some software and show comparison of audio graph Dec 14 10:41:31 Behold bug #5524 Dec 14 10:41:33 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524 program hangs on exit when media player is playing music Dec 14 10:41:40 (gdb) help gcore Dec 14 10:41:40 Save a core file with the current state of the debugged process. Dec 14 10:41:40 Argument is optional filename. Default filename is 'core.'. Dec 14 10:41:46 red, that would be totally awesome Dec 14 10:42:00 red: good idea ... probably calculate modulation and modulate white noise with it Dec 14 10:42:01 I'd really be interested. For now I'll catch some sleep though Dec 14 10:42:20 calculate compression Dec 14 10:42:28 then you can listen to the compression directly Dec 14 10:42:32 that goes out of my area of expertise again :P Dec 14 10:42:38 cdu johnx Dec 14 10:42:45 i could do it if you give me the source and the target file Dec 14 10:42:55 (or i could try :)) Dec 14 10:43:07 I was merely thinking of screenshotting the clean signal graph in goldwave and overlapping it on the played back signal same way Dec 14 10:43:17 Actually, the beef is here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524#c16 Dec 14 10:43:19 Bug 5524: program hangs on exit when media player is playing music Dec 14 10:43:28 ty Dec 14 10:43:59 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 14 10:44:10 that bug got lost internally a month ago (roughly) Dec 14 10:44:19 and it was never going anywhere usefully Dec 14 10:44:19 * timeless_mbp cries Dec 14 10:44:34 Well, as I said, losing bugs and not fixing them is not my problem Dec 14 10:44:41 * timeless_mbp nods Dec 14 10:44:43 indeed Dec 14 10:44:45 that sucks Dec 14 10:44:48 I am not making money selling Maemo devices, your employer is Dec 14 10:44:49 rst *g* Dec 14 10:45:10 jo hrw Dec 14 10:45:14 morning Dec 14 10:46:02 If you REALLY want me to fix it for you, I am available for consulting and yes, you will have to show the complete source code, under NDA if required Dec 14 10:48:25 did someone here sent back DDP device for replacement? Dec 14 10:48:36 hrw: i certainly haven't heard anyone mention doing that Dec 14 10:48:41 (you asked yesterday) Dec 14 10:48:44 ok Dec 14 10:48:46 [AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pulse.c:272:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Connection refused Dec 14 10:48:52 *g* Dec 14 10:48:55 RST38h: so eero remembers the bug, he thinks there's some bug internally that's fixed Dec 14 10:49:09 so alsa is using pulse as hw backend? Dec 14 10:49:11 sadly the bug you referenced is tied to an internal bug that got lost, he'll poke that bug hopefully today Dec 14 10:49:19 not other way around? Dec 14 10:49:33 pupnik: i think it's kinda alsa-lib uses pulse uses alsa-hw Dec 14 10:49:39 but i'm not certain Dec 14 10:49:46 I hate this linker bug Dec 14 10:49:49 linux audio is um... a mess Dec 14 10:49:50 ok that makes sense Dec 14 10:50:04 that s what i see Dec 14 10:50:14 ty Dec 14 10:50:40 there's a nice graphic of linux audio Dec 14 10:50:55 timeless: Do check if it has been fixed before or after 42.11 Dec 14 10:50:57 http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/linuxaudio.png Dec 14 10:50:59 which is ofcourse all irelelvant and useless Dec 14 10:51:01 so a usual setup would look like app->alsa2PA->PAserver->PA2alsa-hwdriver Dec 14 10:51:12 timeless_mbp: that graph is made by a moron Dec 14 10:51:12 RST38h: no, the internal bug was asking about the first update post sales Dec 14 10:51:16 ty DocScrutinizer51 Dec 14 10:51:28 Or, to make things easier, simply start playing music in the player, then run some game (fMSX or Speccy will do too) and try exiting it Dec 14 10:51:39 If it hangs, the bug is still there Dec 14 10:51:41 redeeman: now now, insulting people is never polite Dec 14 10:51:43 timeless_mbp: i could create 10 different pieces of software for osx, or windows, and make a graph that looks the same Dec 14 10:52:20 the default alsa device is probably set to the alsa pulse plugin.. it's like that on fedora Dec 14 10:52:28 that specific graph is made by adobes linux guy to try and get noobs to think its not their fault adobes software suck Dec 14 10:53:06 * timeless_mbp can't remember where the bigger map is Dec 14 10:53:08 we are literally talking about a guy that openly admitted he spent a year trying to fix a problem in flash where it tried to dlopen libasound.so which is a symlink that only exists on some distributions Dec 14 10:53:31 the fact that he would admit such a thing on his blog tells EVERYTHING Dec 14 10:53:50 well, that graph is misleading, as the arrows have several meanings Dec 14 10:54:10 andre__: they don't mean "sends data to" ? Dec 14 10:54:25 they mean CAN send data to Dec 14 10:54:27 "can talk to" Dec 14 10:54:38 if someone chooses to configure it like done there, he/she is obviously retarded Dec 14 10:54:59 yeah, "can". exactly Dec 14 10:55:07 redeeman: the graph was never a "a user will do this" Dec 14 10:55:08 the only way you could end up with that mess is if you compiled gentoo with all possible use flags :) Dec 14 10:55:27 it was "these paths independently exist" Dec 14 10:55:33 timeless_mbp: the graph is "this is why we're having difficulties making audio work in flash!! its not our fault!!!oneoneone" Dec 14 10:55:34 redeeman: regardless of who made the graph, anyone claiming linux audio stack is innocent to flash audio problems is a delusion fanboy Dec 14 10:55:40 redeeman: it is not Dec 14 10:56:01 the graph is "we at flash were recommended to use at various times each of the boxes in the picture" Dec 14 10:56:14 "not all boxes exist on all computers" Dec 14 10:56:20 suihkulokki: yeah right, it only works for everyone else, surely adobe is having some magical requirements, all they had to do was support alsa Dec 14 10:56:49 did they move audio to libflashsupport eventually? Dec 14 10:56:53 yes Dec 14 10:56:55 redeeman: from the graph, it sounds like you can't get to Firewire Audio from Alsa :) Dec 14 10:57:01 because it seems to use pulseaudio perfectly on my fedora box Dec 14 10:57:10 timeless_mbp: that is true, fortunately that is irellevant Dec 14 10:57:24 because no one would ever want to use firewire audio w/ a flash player? Dec 14 10:57:30 that is so Dec 14 10:57:32 while watching a streaming video on a projection screen? Dec 14 10:57:44 i even use firewire audio myself Dec 14 10:57:55 timeless_mbp, the reality is worse, alsa in reality consists of 2-3 boxes there.. Dec 14 10:58:02 ShadowJK: i know Dec 14 10:58:05 i can't find the better map Dec 14 10:58:10 google hates me Dec 14 10:59:00 ouch Dec 14 10:59:07 my search found a graphic i published Dec 14 10:59:08 the graph is also made by someone that doesn't know what they're doing Dec 14 10:59:09 that sucks Dec 14 10:59:16 redeeman: no Dec 14 10:59:25 he states very clearly what he was doing in the document Dec 14 10:59:25 because they appear to be talking about individual libraries Dec 14 10:59:31 which is completely irellevant Dec 14 10:59:40 who cares if some specific daemon uses some library Dec 14 10:59:40 * timeless_mbp sigh Dec 14 10:59:43 for instance jack/ffado Dec 14 10:59:47 go read the text Dec 14 10:59:56 the graph says it all Dec 14 11:00:04 and his earlier blog posts even more Dec 14 11:00:13 the graph doesn't say "your linux system is configured like this" Dec 14 11:00:32 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 14 11:00:44 the really funny thing about the graph is all that shit will happily coexist together, that is until flash opens the sound card directly with alsa, and blocks everything else Dec 14 11:00:53 heh Dec 14 11:00:58 so at some point, someone asked adobe to try and poke ffado directly? Dec 14 11:01:01 * joerg_42 sighs as well Dec 14 11:01:13 it was posted by mike, he was/is an ffmpeg developer too :-) Dec 14 11:03:14 <_berto_> what's up with fremantle extras-devel? I uploaded vagalume yesterday but I can't see it there Dec 14 11:03:36 <_berto_> and jrocha is having the same problem with seriesfinale Dec 14 11:03:56 I think people complained all weekend that stuff wasn't moving from autobuilder to repos? Dec 14 11:03:59 and I uploaded mine a few days ago now Dec 14 11:04:35 It's clearly a conspiracy against opensource developers who cannot stand working on weekdays when the daystar is up ;) Dec 14 11:04:47 ShadowJK, lol Dec 14 11:04:53 <_berto_> lol Dec 14 11:05:24 You know what the best invention wrt flash is? nspluginviewer. It's awesome, when flash crashes, it doesn't take firefox with it. Dec 14 11:05:41 ShadowJK: no, the best part is not having flash Dec 14 11:05:43 its truly great Dec 14 11:07:12 but what if I want to wach live streaming starcrafts from korea Dec 14 11:07:37 redeeman, agreed ;) Dec 14 11:11:46 i am looking at possibility to write to /dev/snd/ device from an application. has anyone done this yet? Dec 14 11:12:18 pupnik, it's not sensible Dec 14 11:12:19 possibly statically compiling-in alsa so it can see the hwdevice instead of just pulse Dec 14 11:12:27 can you tell me why? Dec 14 11:12:53 i dont want to waste my time Dec 14 11:12:53 basically you have to copy the code from alsa-lib that knows how to talk to the kernel part of alsa? Dec 14 11:13:14 Have you tried asking alsa for hw:0.0 or whatever the syntax was... Dec 14 11:13:30 instead of default device, which is probably some pulse plugin Dec 14 11:17:06 wow, /dev/.udev/.db Dec 14 11:17:20 it's *really* hidden Dec 14 11:18:04 i don't see a asound.conf? Dec 14 11:18:16 pupnik, I think pulseaudio has alsa open in blocking mode, so you'd need to kill it first (which will cause it to try and respawn) Dec 14 11:18:38 mplayer seems to open hw:0,0 though I hear no sound.. possibly mixer settings need adjusting (alsamixer -c 0) Dec 14 11:18:49 yes i can't get pulseaudio to not respawn even if i tell it not to in config Dec 14 11:18:57 (mplayer opens 'default' by default) Dec 14 11:19:00 alsamixer only knows pulse mixer device Dec 14 11:19:01 ok Dec 14 11:19:20 oh, if I plug in headphones I hear it :-) Dec 14 11:19:39 and pulseaudio isn't showing up in top, at all Dec 14 11:20:06 strange Dec 14 11:20:23 mplayer -ao alsa:device=hw=0,0 is not complaining Dec 14 11:20:26 hello mastrer Dec 14 11:20:37 how is ur food Dec 14 11:20:38 haha Dec 14 11:21:08 pupnik, -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0 Dec 14 11:21:18 mplayer uses , for itself Dec 14 11:21:18 oops ta Dec 14 11:22:51 MPlayer playing 2 channel 44.1kHz FLAC straight to alsa hw:0,0 mplayer is using 4188 kbytes of ram, about 4-5% of CPU. Dec 14 11:23:22 total cpu usage hovering around 9% USR 2% SYS Dec 14 11:24:00 awesome ShadowJK Dec 14 11:24:12 working here too Dec 14 11:25:09 playing from speaker too Dec 14 11:25:19 MPlayer playing the same file, through alsa default device. mplayer is using 4520 kbytes of ram, 5-6% CPU. pulseaudio at 4660 kbytes of ram, 10% CPU. Total cpu use 18% USR, 4% SYS Dec 14 11:25:20 johnx: you see ^^^ probably community sometimes should think about reasoning for some technical decisions to be able to provide their users with a choice. Not everyone needs seamless sound rerouting between the internal "soundcard" and the BT headset. Dec 14 11:25:56 But many people would like to lower the power consumption a bit along with having a few more cpu cycles for something useful. Dec 14 11:26:07 <_berto_> ShadowJK: the thing is that the diablo/chinook autobuilder works fine Dec 14 11:26:25 look at this, PaulFertser - we have the awesome ability to do exactly what i wanted - oops reboot Dec 14 11:26:26 <_berto_> all my packages are in extras except the one for fremantle, which hasn't even reached extras-devel Dec 14 11:26:28 lol Dec 14 11:26:55 pulseaudio on my 2830 MHz quad-core computer is using 3% CPU. Even if you just scale down the clockspeed, the n900 pulseaudio becomes relatively lean on cpu. Dec 14 11:26:58 why can't pulse be fixed to reduce the cycles? Dec 14 11:27:08 ir is a cadillac system Dec 14 11:27:10 it Dec 14 11:27:24 PaulFertser, no argument. I mentioned the same thing more than an hour ago, but honestly I don't care enough to actually go anywhere with it Dec 14 11:27:27 ruskie, apparently it's doing useful work Dec 14 11:27:33 right Dec 14 11:27:33 define usefull? Dec 14 11:27:44 routing audio to different deevices with different needs Dec 14 11:27:57 echo cancellation Dec 14 11:28:02 software mixing and eq Dec 14 11:28:33 when playing with mplayer direct to hw:0.0 incoming calls would be completely silent, no other sounds can play Dec 14 11:28:35 per-app volume control Dec 14 11:28:38 this is a wonderful happy day :) thank you ShadowJK Dec 14 11:29:03 *g* Dec 14 11:29:16 pupnik I started qtnx stuff Dec 14 11:29:23 I wouldn't put direct alsa access in anything in extras, it's likely to break the phone app for sure :) Dec 14 11:29:23 so how much overhead would dmix add to things? Dec 14 11:29:32 but its hard because of the borken linkers in sdk Dec 14 11:29:34 johnx: i just wanted to highlight i was treated unfairly by "the community" this time. My question was valid and had enough meaning :| Dec 14 11:29:55 johnx, about the same iirc, but it's less visible because it gets added to mplayer's (and other programs') cpu use Dec 14 11:30:20 PaulFertser clam down Dec 14 11:30:36 you dont get anything from it Dec 14 11:30:45 guys. NO app should access hw:0.0 directly Dec 14 11:30:48 and I agree with you Dec 14 11:30:50 i am getting speaker playback with no /usr/bin/pulseaudio present at all :)) Dec 14 11:31:11 pupnik, forget phone calls then Dec 14 11:31:13 woglinde: i will buy you a nice dinner or equivalent Dec 14 11:31:43 zaheerm: yeah i might need to mention that the game will shutdown some other things Dec 14 11:32:03 How do you get treated by the community btw? Dec 14 11:32:18 Is it like getting your finger caught in a door? =) Dec 14 11:32:19 but i am so impressed now with nokia at the freedom to hit alsa. thanks nokia. Dec 14 11:32:37 pupnik, maybe make it an option Dec 14 11:32:41 yep Dec 14 11:32:47 RST38h: getting a finger stuck in a nokian door is called community commitment Dec 14 11:32:47 :P Dec 14 11:32:52 even using OSS /dev/dsp is preferrable to hw:0.0 Dec 14 11:32:55 Sts: Oh Dec 14 11:33:12 Using /dev/dsp is preferable to pretty much everything else Dec 14 11:33:17 Except maybe for /dev/audio Dec 14 11:33:50 hello Dec 14 11:33:51 DocScrutinizer, it blocks just as good as /dev/dsp Dec 14 11:33:53 whats new to maemo world Dec 14 11:33:58 apps wise :D Dec 14 11:34:12 25% more performance in emulators just now Dec 14 11:34:26 pupnik without pulse? Dec 14 11:34:31 yep Dec 14 11:34:34 cool Dec 14 11:34:41 what Dec 14 11:34:44 whats this? Dec 14 11:34:45 :) Dec 14 11:35:05 is maemo pulse using the dsp for mixing or the arm cpu? Dec 14 11:35:08 ShadowJK: exactly :-P Even better than /dev/dsp if you got alsa OSS compatibiöity layer configured correctly Dec 14 11:35:09 pupnik, what happens if you call? :-) Dec 14 11:35:10 pupnik: did you get psx4all yet? Dec 14 11:35:24 had it for a year or so, never got it built ali1234 Dec 14 11:35:38 DocScrutinizer, the oss compatibility layer doesn't always work properly... Dec 14 11:35:57 ShadowJK: I know Dec 14 11:35:57 ali1234: where can i follow your work? Dec 14 11:36:06 f.ex mplayer directly accessing hw:0,0 is often better than through oss /dev/dsp alsa emu Dec 14 11:36:25 It's still better than alsa-pulse-alsa chain though Dec 14 11:36:35 pupnik: git://ali1234.homelinux.net/psx4all.git Dec 14 11:36:41 in terms of performance and information lost Dec 14 11:37:00 ShadowJK: hmm? mplayer isnt using the pulse output? Dec 14 11:37:24 I suggest dmix:'plughw:0.0' nevertheless Dec 14 11:37:26 dunno about mplayer in extras-devel Dec 14 11:37:48 I built mine with diablo sdk, so no pulse support Dec 14 11:38:05 the default mplayer config prioritizes alsa over pulse too Dec 14 11:38:08 i am using mplayer from -devel Dec 14 11:39:21 looking at the pulse config in the scratchbox pulse is configured to use a lot of cpu Dec 14 11:39:50 where i doubt that even giving audible benefit, but what do i know Dec 14 11:40:25 maybe its different on the n900 though, i dont have one Dec 14 11:40:31 need oprofile to figure out where the cpu is spent :) Dec 14 11:40:58 * pupnik gets out the acme magnet and points it at spain Dec 14 11:41:26 resample-method = speex-fixed-2 Dec 14 11:42:24 no, not brazil Dec 14 11:42:35 i recently tried with 48khz vs 44.1khz in SDL, and there was no difference in CPU usage (around 10% for both) Dec 14 11:43:11 ali1234: try a cheaper mixer, and less realtime Dec 14 11:43:38 the point is using native sample rate is supposed to use less CPU Dec 14 11:43:42 but in my case it didn't Dec 14 11:43:58 but i suspect a bug a psx4all tbh Dec 14 11:44:35 talk about spaghetti code. i wouldn't be surprised if the sample rate variable i changed never actually gets used Dec 14 11:45:39 aiui PA *always* resamples Dec 14 11:46:34 well if that's true, it sucks Dec 14 11:46:59 hm so the dsp isnt used in n900 for sound? Dec 14 11:47:55 hmm so couldn't pa modules be optimised to do all that but at a fraction of the cpu time they need now? Dec 14 11:48:18 woglinde: for sure not for mixing Dec 14 11:49:19 time for oprofile Dec 14 11:50:13 hm and let me guess on beagleboard its the same problem too Dec 14 11:51:33 well. Maybe they implemented a hw-muxer D/A via the DSP Dec 14 11:51:47 who? Dec 14 11:51:52 http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/files/2009/12/IMG_4459.JPG Dec 14 11:51:56 nokia Dec 14 11:52:27 wasn't that only for 2-3 codecs Dec 14 11:52:35 or whoever coded the "card" driver Dec 14 11:52:40 http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/files/2009/12/IMG_4459.JPG shows bad pixels group on my n900 Dec 14 11:53:15 Wing Commander is now totally playable. Dec 14 11:53:30 pupnik cool Dec 14 11:53:35 pupnik: on what emulator? Dec 14 11:53:39 dosbox Dec 14 11:53:44 i see Dec 14 11:53:55 port UAE, it has better games :P Dec 14 11:53:56 double the framerate at least Dec 14 11:54:10 hrw: http://www.klc.fi/en/products.php?p=44466a Dec 14 11:54:11 pulse was killing the cpu cache Dec 14 11:54:15 hrw: huh, these look weird. Shouldn't defective pixels be permanently on (or permanently off) 100%? Dec 14 11:54:17 orly? Dec 14 11:54:27 i am guessing Dec 14 11:54:30 psx4all likes to kill the cpu cache too, as part of the dynarec Dec 14 11:54:36 hehe Dec 14 11:54:43 it actually manually clears it regularly Dec 14 11:54:43 that might be something to test, brb Dec 14 11:55:26 nomis: or pernament lit or subcolored etc Dec 14 11:55:42 pupnik: Have you simply turned the sound off? Dec 14 11:55:45 SpeedEvil: one week did not finished - I am sending it to DDP Dec 14 11:56:02 http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/12/14/sending-n900-back-to-nokia/ Dec 14 11:56:41 RST38h: no he's using alsa directly now (and blocking all other apps from making sound in the process) Dec 14 11:57:05 ah Dec 14 11:57:10 ali: sounds good to me Dec 14 11:57:21 * RST38h failed to use alsa on fremantle though Dec 14 11:57:27 i tried disabling sound completely, it did not give any magical 25% speed up for me :) Dec 14 11:57:42 different emu, different results Dec 14 11:57:47 i should not have spoken so carelessly Dec 14 11:58:03 true Dec 14 11:58:33 this is like a weight off shoulders. i feel 5 pounds lighter. Dec 14 11:59:01 * SpeedEvil feels 20 pounds lighter. Dec 14 11:59:04 diet++ Dec 14 11:59:07 * RST38h should try it as well Dec 14 12:07:37 hms Dec 14 12:07:46 autobuilder please copy faster my libs Dec 14 12:09:56 woglinde: It's still broken, AFAICT. Dec 14 12:10:07 I've been waiting two days. Dec 14 12:10:26 hey.. im trying to connect sip over openvpn but it seems that an old bug is still active on maemo 5 where the sip program binds itself on the wlan ip. Dec 14 12:10:28 On the n800 there is workaround setting local-ip-address using mc-account but that program doesnt exist on the n900.. Any ideas? bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1860 Dec 14 12:10:30 Bug 1860: Won't pass through VPN Dec 14 12:10:38 ~log Dec 14 12:10:39 somebody said log was http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel/ for #openmoko-cdevel only. Maybe you meant "~logs" ? Dec 14 12:10:45 <_berto_> derf: but it works for maemo <= 4 Dec 14 12:10:57 _berto_: That's... less than helpful. Dec 14 12:11:02 ~seen x-fade Dec 14 12:11:02 x-fade is currently on #maemo (2d 14h 16m 57s), last said: 'irssi is in extras-testing'. Dec 14 12:18:37 ~logs Dec 14 12:18:38 All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Dec 14 12:24:55 http://www.strandreports.com/sw4031.asp Dec 14 12:29:30 re-heya Dec 14 12:32:20 ugh, kinda worriesome that the thing i do most on my tablet lately is freecell... Dec 14 12:32:51 like most on the pc Dec 14 12:32:57 :P Dec 14 12:35:50 * VDVsx yawns Dec 14 12:36:07 VDVsx, mooning :) Dec 14 12:36:38 wazd_n800, morning :) Dec 14 12:36:47 lo VDVsx Dec 14 12:37:11 Jaffa, hey Dec 14 12:38:39 Can someone point me to some information on icons in maemo5? I thought i might make an icon for a program. Dec 14 12:39:57 mece, well, they are .pngs) Dec 14 12:40:54 is it safe to install quake3 from Dec 14 12:40:57 devel-extras :\ Dec 14 12:41:03 any particular sizes? Dec 14 12:41:04 im afraid il brick the phone :O Dec 14 12:41:22 Ceron didn't brick mine. You need the data files. Open arena works straight away. Dec 14 12:41:23 could someone tell me if installing quake3 on the phone is safe? Dec 14 12:41:32 Ceron, you can always reflash :) Dec 14 12:41:35 mece: got any instructions Dec 14 12:41:37 mece, 64x64, 48x48 Dec 14 12:41:44 ruskie: i dont want to reflash it >:( Dec 14 12:41:48 i got work stuff on it Dec 14 12:41:50 wazd_n800, thanks Dec 14 12:41:52 wazd_n800, probably 32x32 as well ? Dec 14 12:41:58 [13:24:50] http://www.strandreports.com/sw4031.asp Dec 14 12:42:02 I think that's a great post Dec 14 12:42:11 Ceron, well as I said I've had no problems with q3 or open arena. Dec 14 12:42:15 mece: tell me what i need :P Dec 14 12:42:21 to do Dec 14 12:42:26 Ceron, you need Quake 3 Dec 14 12:42:37 ruskie, don't thiink that maemo 5 uses it Dec 14 12:42:44 for open arena you need nothing besides an N900 Dec 14 12:43:12 I had an iphone (I wasn't as fanatic as described in the post, I quickly saw the shortcomings, hence when the N900 came out and it was all opensource and linux-y and all that I nerdgasmed) but it all sounds very familiar. when I got my N900, I spoke to a friend who has an iphone and he kept going on about how the iphone was superior, had a "sharper screen" etc etc Dec 14 12:43:37 mece: aint it freeware all Dec 14 12:43:42 can i get it all from the repos? Dec 14 12:43:55 install quake3 from repository Dec 14 12:44:06 SinofEnvy, lol... did he actually look at the N900? Dec 14 12:44:18 ceron, q3 data-files aren't free Dec 14 12:45:09 iPhone sharper screen ... muhahahahaaaa Dec 14 12:45:32 They have fewer pixels so you can see the nice, sharp edges between each one. Dec 14 12:45:58 Ceron, you can get the demo version data files here: http://www.idsoftware.com/games/quake/quake3-arena/index.php?game_section=demo Dec 14 12:46:22 ruskie, yes... but besides the fact that he's a pretty big asshat in general and isn't that technologically inclined, he was completely relucant to reason Dec 14 12:46:28 reluctant* Dec 14 12:47:10 HTC Nexus 1 approved by FCC Dec 14 12:47:15 yeah, I said, "you do realize the N900's resolution is higher?" "yeah, but the iphone still has a sharper screen" "uh, do you know what resolution ENTAILS?" "yeah, but the iphone still has a better screen" Dec 14 12:47:17 So any new apps out for the N900? Dec 14 12:47:18 ...what Dec 14 12:47:24 Eldar fails twice a day Dec 14 12:48:03 Ceron, install quake from repository, copy the pak0.pk3 from the demoq3 directory where you put the demo, to your /home/user/baseq3/ directory on the phone. Dec 14 12:48:12 siriusnov, have you made any recently? Dec 14 12:48:17 well Dec 14 12:48:21 i ported an app Dec 14 12:48:21 :p Dec 14 12:48:25 ircII Dec 14 12:48:25 heh Dec 14 12:48:34 more like recompiled :> Dec 14 12:48:42 siriusnov, l33t you is. Dec 14 12:48:48 i know im amazing Dec 14 12:48:52 ;) Dec 14 12:49:58 siriusnov, most developers are putting a bit more effort in porting, that's why the process is not so fast Dec 14 12:50:10 i know Dec 14 12:50:18 anyone tried any N800 apps Dec 14 12:50:34 mece: is it safe Dec 14 12:50:37 Ceron, Open Arena is a free game using the Q3 engine. You can download that complete game from the repository. It's 300Mb. Dec 14 12:50:38 to put it in home user? Dec 14 12:50:45 Ceron, well it worked for me without problems. Dec 14 12:50:53 someone said it should be in /opt/ Dec 14 12:50:56 everything :O Dec 14 12:51:01 its not optified! Dec 14 12:51:19 /home and /opt are on the same partition. Dec 14 12:51:30 Ceron, /home/user is the same partition as /opt, since /opt is actually /home/opt Dec 14 12:51:35 It's a mess, but it's not unsafe. Dec 14 12:51:55 Half the N900 packages seem to be a mess, so this is no different. Dec 14 12:52:00 Ceron, Open Arena is Optified. Dec 14 12:52:23 heh, open arena takes 300M or so, it wouldn't fit to the root partition in any case :) Dec 14 12:52:31 does open arena support multiplayer with pc gamers? Dec 14 12:52:32 :D Dec 14 12:52:39 * cehteh wonders if that would be one reason to reject packages from apples app-store "No we dont sell your crap" :P Dec 14 12:52:55 hmm maemo.org is still damn slow Dec 14 12:53:14 are there serverlists on open arena Dec 14 12:53:19 so i wont hafto play against bots Dec 14 12:53:34 you probably dont want to play vs pc users Dec 14 12:54:00 They would be so pwnd Dec 14 12:54:07 ping RST38h Dec 14 12:54:37 lardman|gone, ping Dec 14 12:56:43 qwerty12, ping Dec 14 12:57:02 let's ping each other :D Dec 14 12:57:06 maybe someone will setup a n900-users only server ;) Dec 14 12:57:48 ruskie, yeah, so I can burn you all easily :D Dec 14 12:58:57 jaremiah Dec 14 12:59:01 here you are Dec 14 12:59:07 hi Dec 14 12:59:10 I have been away Dec 14 12:59:19 ~curse quim for way how he handle brainstorm related bugzilla bugs Dec 14 12:59:20 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, quim for way how he handle brainstorm related bugzilla bugs ! Dec 14 12:59:22 RST38h, heya Dec 14 12:59:27 Finally back where there is internet Dec 14 12:59:31 bug 6852 Dec 14 12:59:33 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6852 No way to get notifications about changes in brainstorm Dec 14 12:59:53 quim responce: to track changes in brainstorm use brainstorm. Dec 14 13:00:02 hrw, there's a brainstorm for that :P Dec 14 13:00:04 but there is no fucking way to track changes in brainstorm Dec 14 13:00:36 VDVsx: I just wonder when I will end reporting bugs in maemo just because it becomes more and more waste of my time Dec 14 13:01:10 hrw, that's not a bug,IMO Dec 14 13:01:19 brainstorm now looks like product of teenager which got one day for coding and then moved to other stuff Dec 14 13:01:29 hehe Dec 14 13:02:22 they should implement flashing over bluetooth.. i've lost my cable somewhere Dec 14 13:02:28 VDVsx, Ii'll try to send you keynote and ps3 profiles today btw Dec 14 13:02:39 hrw, you can suggest changes, there's threads at the ML and TMO about brainstorm Dec 14 13:02:44 wazd_n800, thanks Dec 14 13:02:53 cosmo, over ether :) Dec 14 13:03:04 hrw, note that in part I agree with you Dec 14 13:03:30 VDVsx, anything else? want some icecream? :P Dec 14 13:03:37 hrw, but we can try to improve things, at least Dec 14 13:03:54 wazd_n800, ins't a bit cold for icecream ? Dec 14 13:03:55 :P Dec 14 13:04:28 VDVsx, yeah, whooping -16C Dec 14 13:04:50 VDVsx: anyway for some time I will be off from maemo tracking Dec 14 13:06:43 wazd_n800: oh yeah, finally there's some normal winter weather here. Dec 14 13:07:01 PaulFertser, kind of) Dec 14 13:07:03 wazd_n800, bruuuu, that's a lot of cold, I'll died in the first second I put my feet in the street Dec 14 13:07:53 lunch time, bbl Dec 14 13:07:54 VDVsx, hehe, welcome to mother russia :D Dec 14 13:08:25 VDVsx: and bring your bicycle along, let's have a ride. Dec 14 13:09:54 PaulFertser, I'm gonna try to cycle tomorrow) Dec 14 13:10:33 * ruskie is happy to have some normal winter weather here as well Dec 14 13:12:45 anyone been getting alot of unable to open file /usr/share/icons/hicolor/.icon-theme.cacheL file exists errors on like 30 things I´ve installed? Dec 14 13:13:45 ~seen pupnik Dec 14 13:13:46 pupnik is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 103 messages. Is idling for 20m 12s, last said: 'you probably dont want to play vs pc users'. Dec 14 13:14:42 ~seen qwerty12 Dec 14 13:14:43 qwerty12 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10d 18h 50m 44s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'. Dec 14 13:15:51 hmm anyone tried getting pavucontrol or some other volume control app onto the n900 yet? Dec 14 13:21:09 ruskie: pshhhh, that's audio domain ;-) Dec 14 13:21:49 ??? Dec 14 13:26:49 hows the fight woglinde Dec 14 13:34:55 oyd Dec 14 13:35:11 grr stupid colloquy grabbed focus :( Dec 14 13:46:00 Jaffa: yo got a nice 480p mencoder line? Dec 14 13:47:08 pupnik: tablet-encode -p n900 foo out.avi ;-) Dec 14 13:48:31 pupnik I have debs ready Dec 14 13:48:50 but not in fremantle, because aubuilder dont copies Dec 14 13:48:53 pupnik: check the second script here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Encoding_Video Dec 14 13:49:47 ahh ty Dec 14 13:49:56 woglinde: can i test? :) Dec 14 13:50:03 ty jebba Jaffa Dec 14 13:50:07 pupnik yeah let me upload them Dec 14 13:51:16 wow, you prefer low bitrates jebba :) Dec 14 13:53:13 pupnik: There's also a '-hq' mode in tablet-encode now. That, two-pass and the `n900' preset look fantastic at 800x480 on an N900 from a 720p source. Dec 14 13:53:47 tjat Dec 14 13:53:54 wat i was hopin for ty Dec 14 13:54:05 pupnik: i have only used that thing twice now. This morning I was like WTF am I using h264 and not theora? So probably going to re-do it too ;) Dec 14 13:54:16 ya +2 pass... Dec 14 13:54:16 pupnik -> http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/heinold/nx/ Dec 14 13:54:31 I am off for half an hour Dec 14 13:54:34 woglinde: are those all free? Dec 14 13:54:36 free software? Dec 14 13:54:41 jebba jupp Dec 14 13:54:46 you rule Dec 14 13:54:47 woglinde is St. Niklaus :) Dec 14 13:55:00 woglinde: http://jebba.blagblagblag.org/?p=191 :) Dec 14 13:56:02 unfornatly neatx is much behind in features than x2go Dec 14 13:56:22 and x2go breaks the protocol and only supports own client Dec 14 13:56:38 and the sourcecode of x2go client-qt is ugly Dec 14 13:56:56 okay till later Dec 14 13:57:22 so.. should icons be copied to /usr/share/pixmaps/usr/share/icons/blabla or was there some place in /opt i can copy them? or does it respect the X-Icon-Path in the .desktop files? Dec 14 13:58:47 redeeman: http://pastebin.ca/1714370 Dec 14 13:58:53 redeeman hm dont know if maemo-optify works with icons too Dec 14 13:59:01 so now I am really off Dec 14 13:59:16 that worked for me. Basically it puts them in /opt, but symlinks them under usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ Dec 14 13:59:24 yes it doe. Dec 14 13:59:46 erhm Dec 14 13:59:58 jebba: what do you mean with "yes it does" ? Dec 14 14:00:27 maemo-optify works with icons Dec 14 14:01:00 check that pastebin for a working example of icons and .desktop file. I think you need them at those sizes too. Dec 14 14:01:04 so then i don't need to symlink them? Dec 14 14:01:26 the pastebin had some makefile stuff? Dec 14 14:01:54 that is from debian/rules Dec 14 14:01:55 /usr and /var should move to mmcblk0 eventually nevertheless Dec 14 14:02:03 redeeman: i can put up the whole file if you want Dec 14 14:02:26 well if you symlink it then you cant really say that its optification Dec 14 14:02:49 redeeman: that's what maemo-optify does for many things, such as /usr/bin. Dec 14 14:03:22 just the symlinks are under /usr, but the files themselves are under /opt. Note, i based most of how i did it on VDVsx's supertux and i think he knows WTF he is doing. Dec 14 14:04:05 I wish I could remember what computer I´m online with AndrewFBlack login lol Dec 14 14:04:22 jebba, fyi supertux doesn't use symlinks, everthing is installed directly under /opt Dec 14 14:04:46 and I recommend that for any app :P Dec 14 14:04:57 maemo-optify is for lazy people ;) Dec 14 14:05:40 VDVsx: ah, thx for correction, sry. Dec 14 14:06:11 jebba, If IIRC your rules files this is very easy to change there Dec 14 14:06:15 see, i told you he knows wtf he's doing ;) Dec 14 14:06:42 i just put maemo-optify in the rules ;) probably just a PATH=/opt i imagine. Dec 14 14:07:00 jebba, most cases yes Dec 14 14:07:11 by the way, now that you're here, uh, what's the run fast key in supertux? haah Dec 14 14:07:16 jebba, easy and not need to call maemo-optify Dec 14 14:07:37 ok, will do it that way now Dec 14 14:07:47 VDVsx: well if i only touch /opt, how do i get it to pick up my icons etc? Dec 14 14:07:54 just ramping myself up on the correct ways and i thought it was maemo-optify, which is superfkn easy Dec 14 14:07:56 jebba, depends in your kb setup, you can check that inside the game Dec 14 14:08:08 jebba, by default is x Dec 14 14:08:10 ya, it just said some keycode. "standard" keyboard here. Dec 14 14:08:12 ok thx Dec 14 14:08:18 will let my son know ;) Dec 14 14:08:55 redeeman, well, the icons/symlinks to the icons must be in the rootfs Dec 14 14:09:21 redeeman, the menu icon only, of course Dec 14 14:09:47 same for the desktop file Dec 14 14:10:02 they really should have included an additional search path Dec 14 14:10:27 redeeman, those are very small files, not a problem at all Dec 14 14:10:37 its more the annoyance :) Dec 14 14:11:16 VDVsx: can you also tell me the bare minimum i can get away with with icons? i've made a 64x64, should that just be placed directly in /usr/share/icons? its in png format Dec 14 14:11:17 redeeman, IMO that's not hard to do, and you only need to do this one time Dec 14 14:12:02 redeeman, maemo5 right ? Dec 14 14:12:07 yup on N900 Dec 14 14:12:08 lizardo, can you verify that where is an optified version of python? What is the version number that should be optified? Dec 14 14:12:27 redeeman, 64x64 -> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ Dec 14 14:12:33 Jaffa: where can i get tablet-encode? Dec 14 14:12:36 konttori_work_no: the version in testing is already optified Dec 14 14:12:43 extras-testing, I mean Dec 14 14:12:44 VDVsx: where do the different sizes gets used? Dec 14 14:12:46 red, 48x48 ->/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/hildon/ Dec 14 14:12:58 64 is desktop, so where else? Dec 14 14:13:44 lizardo, but not in the extras proper Dec 14 14:13:50 xorAxAx: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.html Dec 14 14:14:50 konttori_work_no: yes... partially because there is some know bugs with it, see MB#6686 and M#6886 Dec 14 14:15:20 konttori_work_no: so I would suggest waiting for these bugs to be sorted out before pushing it to extras proper Dec 14 14:15:24 so, are those blocker bugs? Dec 14 14:15:30 When can we have those fixed? Dec 14 14:15:46 bug 6886 Dec 14 14:15:48 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6886 pymaemo-optify should not attempt to migrate files on upgrade Dec 14 14:15:52 I'm mainly interested, as python takes awfully lot of precious rootfs space Dec 14 14:16:15 bug 6686 Dec 14 14:16:16 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6686 pymaemo-optify breaks after install-uninstall cycle Dec 14 14:16:58 konttori_work_no: sure , we are already taking a look on both, but I can't say yet the exact timeline, but it will be for sure ASAP due to the priority of the bug Dec 14 14:17:05 Jaffa: is there a repo with it in it? Dec 14 14:17:07 lizardo, 6686 is fixed, (but not released?) Dec 14 14:17:31 so, you have only one to fix? Dec 14 14:17:43 VDVsx: do i need 48x48? im only really interrested in having icon on the "desktop" Dec 14 14:17:43 konttori_work_no: yes, but the other bug is quite important and needs to be fixed before packages hit extras (IMHO) Dec 14 14:17:57 VDVsx: which time in system init /home gets mounted? Dec 14 14:18:38 xorAxAx: It runs on the desktop. There is a Debian package: http://www.debian-multimedia.org/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/package/tablet-encode.php Dec 14 14:18:41 hi :I Dec 14 14:18:55 xorAxAx: Alternatively, just unpack the tarball & run it. Dec 14 14:18:58 Jaffa: i want the repo on my desktop Dec 14 14:19:02 for automatical upgrade Dec 14 14:19:02 s Dec 14 14:19:51 lizardo, thanks! And good luck with it! Dec 14 14:20:18 VDVsx: thx, that was pretty painless. just as easy as maemo-optify. I suppose the maemo-optify would just be good for apps that don't cooperate with $DESTDIRs or something. Dec 14 14:20:38 Ugh, missed DHL by all of 5 seconds. Dec 14 14:20:53 lol ;) Dec 14 14:21:13 Those guys don't wait around. Dec 14 14:21:30 redeeman, actually I can remember any other place where these icons are used, probably is legacy stuff from maemo4, better check the docs, I'm not a encyclopedia of maemo, that's qwerty12 :P Dec 14 14:23:21 offtopic question, anyone know of a cheap ddwrt capable wlan router Dec 14 14:23:23 question: where I can find out which exactly GCC/Glibc/binutils combo is used for maemo5? Dec 14 14:23:25 re Dec 14 14:23:36 Jaffa: ok, got it from the multimedia repo Dec 14 14:23:36 x-fade!!!!!!!!!! Dec 14 14:23:46 woglinde: hi Dec 14 14:23:54 x-fade did you already fix the autobuilder for fremantle? Dec 14 14:24:03 it dont copies the packages in place Dec 14 14:24:23 woglinde: looking at it. Which packages exactly? Dec 14 14:24:45 x-fade all since friday Dec 14 14:24:46 btw, this always happens when I'm traveling. Don't know why :) Dec 14 14:25:06 maybe a problem with the garage failure Dec 14 14:26:32 woglinde: I see that a lot of packages now show up in the packages interface. Which means they are in the repo. Dec 14 14:26:32 flatzebra_0.1.3-2/ is an example of one that isn't making it over for about 7 hours now. X-Fade. Build times are reasonable now though :) Dec 14 14:27:03 X-Fade: well, i'm trying to build burgerspace and it needs the dev libs from flatzebra, and it ain't finding them. Dec 14 14:27:14 hm lets see for nxcomp Dec 14 14:29:15 cool CONFIG_LOGO_LINUX_CLUT224=y works too ;) Dec 14 14:30:00 hm nope nxcomp dont shows up Dec 14 14:30:25 X-Fade, it's those timebomb scripts you keep setting up to keep yourself emplpyeed. :P Dec 14 14:30:42 *g* Dec 14 14:32:03 Ok I found the issue. Dec 14 14:32:10 ah Dec 14 14:32:22 Due to the garage issue over the weekend the sign process was stuck. Dec 14 14:32:30 hm as I thought Dec 14 14:32:40 without known it was sign process Dec 14 14:32:50 Syncing -devel now., Dec 14 14:32:58 thanks Dec 14 14:35:27 Nokia should really have saved on the Internationsl Overnight shipping and spent that money on a freaking warranty. Dec 14 14:36:15 * GAN900 wonders which idiot decided the 1 week warranty was a good idea. Dec 14 14:36:34 there's only a 1wk warranty on the N900? Dec 14 14:36:55 damn, gotta throw it out of my window earlier than I thought then :( ONLY LITTLE TIME LEFT Dec 14 14:36:59 For DDP devices. Dec 14 14:38:21 Why bother with a warranty when you're just gonna break it anyway? Dec 14 14:38:46 remoo Dec 14 14:38:56 You... don't actually think I was gonna break it, do you? Dec 14 14:38:59 moo indeed Dec 14 14:40:12 <_berto_> the maemo autobuilder is working Dec 14 14:40:35 <_berto_> guys, what's the best way to clone an N900 ? backup + restore ? Dec 14 14:40:44 extras-devel has been synched/signed now. Everything should be available now. Dec 14 14:42:48 <_berto_> X-Fade: yes it is Dec 14 14:42:48 <_berto_> :) Dec 14 14:43:22 _berto_: Good ;) Dec 14 14:44:53 what are the known hardware issues we should check during the 1 week DDP warranty period? Dec 14 14:44:55 mic, wifi? Dec 14 14:45:16 X-Fade: thx :) Dec 14 14:45:20 mgedmin: mic was not an issue. Was fmradio doing something wrong. Dec 14 14:46:45 <_berto_> mgedmin: I'm going to clone my N900 asap and test it during this week Dec 14 14:46:48 new burgerspace, coming up! ;) Dec 14 14:47:00 _berto_: rsync -aHx / /sdcard is what i use .. and copying /dev Dec 14 14:47:23 Stskeeps, that won't work as well when the two N900s have different firmware versions, I suppose Dec 14 14:47:31 <_berto_> Stskeeps: :D Dec 14 14:47:42 <_berto_> Stskeeps: I'd do that on a destkop computer Dec 14 14:48:09 <_berto_> ok, vagalume is working fine in extras-devel Dec 14 14:48:22 <_berto_> so ... Dec 14 14:48:35 <_berto_> http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2009/12/14/vagalume-0-8-released-now-with-support-for-libre-fm/ Dec 14 14:49:02 mgedmin: and making a ubifs of it Dec 14 14:50:11 mgedmin: all Dec 14 14:50:24 _berto_, great, but you need some new shiny icons :D Dec 14 14:50:39 <_berto_> VDVsx: yes es :D Dec 14 14:50:49 <_berto_> we have a new logo, that's something Dec 14 14:51:39 _berto_, if you need some help, ask in the design forum at talk, there's some folks there willing to help :) Dec 14 14:52:14 mgedmin: check screen for bad pixels, check does tv-out works, does fm radio receiver/transmitter works Dec 14 14:53:16 mgedmin: does it makes/receives gsm calls/messages, does both cameras works Dec 14 14:53:39 <_berto_> I guess liqtorch is the easiest way to check for dead pixels ? Dec 14 14:53:40 _berto_: installing it now. Looks cool. One small note, N900 isn't mentioned in description, just previous models, fwiw Dec 14 14:53:55 <_berto_> jebba: ah, you're probably right Dec 14 14:54:00 jebba did you test the nx packages? Dec 14 14:54:06 woglinde: not yet, will do Dec 14 14:54:15 okay Dec 14 14:54:15 thanks Dec 14 14:54:28 i'm not even sure what I have for NX in fedora 12 Dec 14 14:54:37 been years since i played with NX Dec 14 14:54:46 jebba hm okay Dec 14 14:54:51 I will wait for pupnik Dec 14 14:55:05 dont make your self some stress Dec 14 14:55:16 heh. i'll see what i can figure out ;) Dec 14 14:55:41 i just remember setting it up before (using *primarily* free software) was about as much fun as sendmail.cf. Has it gotten better? Dec 14 14:56:28 X-Fade, nope, there's also a hardware failure. Dec 14 14:57:06 mgedmin, mic, WiFi, dead/stuck pixels. Dec 14 14:57:53 woglinde: should I use the ones here? http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/heinold/nx/ Dec 14 14:58:02 jebba with ubuntu packages yes Dec 14 14:58:15 jebba yes you could take these Dec 14 14:58:26 I am right now feeding the builder Dec 14 14:59:36 _berto_: great news! :-) Dec 14 14:59:44 woglinde: fyi, those are not optified. Dec 14 14:59:52 i still use libre.fm since it's launch Dec 14 15:00:15 <- no. 45 *hrhr* Dec 14 15:00:36 GAN900: I don't know if I could *see* a stuck/dead pixel on the N900 screen Dec 14 15:01:44 <_berto_> jukey: :) Dec 14 15:02:18 _berto_: by default, no last.fm service is there in preferences, just libre.fm. Also to import the servers list file, I dont see one (didnt hunt around, but it wasnt in the directory it opened by default) Dec 14 15:02:48 Gadgetoid_iMac, how about several? Dec 14 15:03:09 GAN900: That I might notice Dec 14 15:03:16 Took me too long to notice the one on my N810 though Dec 14 15:03:51 RST38h, can you downgrade the package and app icons to the old ones? Dec 14 15:04:17 woglinde: missing something? http://pastebin.ca/1714432 Dec 14 15:04:41 New toolbar icons are so much better. Dec 14 15:04:42 oh no Dec 14 15:04:47 ping x-fade Dec 14 15:04:52 ~ping x-fade Dec 14 15:04:53 pong x-fade Dec 14 15:05:00 <_berto_> jebba: you have to write your own servers file Dec 14 15:05:27 GAN: Not getting it, explain Dec 14 15:05:36 jebba grap the libxmuu manually from sdk Dec 14 15:05:41 <_berto_> jebba: is the question "how can I listen to last.fm in the n900?" Dec 14 15:05:43 <_berto_> ? Dec 14 15:05:56 I have to beg x-fade to put them into extras as for diablo Dec 14 15:06:44 is there a way to make the media indexer read tags from .flac files? Dec 14 15:06:52 _berto_: no Dec 14 15:07:36 <_berto_> jebba: you only need to import a servers file if you want to add a new server Dec 14 15:07:36 GAN: Which icons do you like better: the new ones (from the previous build), the old ones (from the old Chinook build) or the Hildon ones (in the current build I uploaded)? Dec 14 15:07:46 _berto_: "only" Dec 14 15:08:04 i suggest having it there by default, no? Dec 14 15:08:21 RST38h, the blue books icon. Dec 14 15:08:29 <_berto_> having what ? libre.fm is already there by default Dec 14 15:08:35 <_berto_> you don't need to import it Dec 14 15:08:39 well, then change your summary: Dec 14 15:08:46 "Client for Last.fm and compatible radio serv" Dec 14 15:08:54 GAN: That will be the Chinook icon set Dec 14 15:09:01 Just for the application and package icon, though. Dec 14 15:09:11 and for a while in Diablo, too. Dec 14 15:09:11 <_berto_> jebba: well, for the N900 you are probably right Dec 14 15:09:14 GAN: Ah! The app icon! Dec 14 15:09:17 * RST38h gets it now Dec 14 15:09:24 jebba I put xmuu now into the dir Dec 14 15:09:30 <_berto_> I have the same summary in all versions Dec 14 15:09:31 GAN: wazd agreed to do a decent app icon for the fbreader Dec 14 15:09:35 basically, people have last.fm accounts. They see that app based on summary, the download it, go to preferences, can't enter account (and/or dont even know WTF is the difference between last.fm and libre.fm) = they think it's broken Dec 14 15:09:37 GAN: Check with him on the progress Dec 14 15:10:04 The old one was plenty decent imho. Dec 14 15:10:17 _berto_: PITA to add things like that tap tap tap. Plus no clue where to get them. How would a user know? Dec 14 15:10:19 GAN: It was ok but too amateurish IMHO Dec 14 15:10:21 Hrm, hildon-home bug. Dec 14 15:10:47 RST38h, very spottable, though. Dec 14 15:11:00 OK, can somebody test a bug for me? Dec 14 15:11:18 1. Choose a 3rd party applications. Dec 14 15:11:27 GAN: Anyways, check with wazd: I am sure he can do something very similar but way more professional Dec 14 15:11:42 <_berto_> jebba: you're probably right, I can change the package description for the N900 version Dec 14 15:11:45 woglinde: installed OK now :) Dec 14 15:11:50 _berto_: woo hoo! thx :) Dec 14 15:11:51 jebba jupp Dec 14 15:11:52 VDVsx: ping Dec 14 15:12:01 2. Add a shortcut for the application to the desktop. Dec 14 15:12:05 oh, well, actually, i woo hoo'd too early. Why not add last.fm in there too? heh. Dec 14 15:12:08 redeeman, pong Dec 14 15:12:15 <_berto_> that's in the FAQ Dec 14 15:12:25 3. Remove the application with h-a-m or apt-get. Dec 14 15:12:39 4. Note that the shortcut is now gone. Dec 14 15:12:42 VDVsx: i made the symlinks, but it does not show the icons, do i need anything more than a 64x64 in scalable? also, should i put them as subdir of apps or hildon inside scalable? Dec 14 15:12:43 <_berto_> I expect many people to use last.fm too, but without permission from last.fm I prefer not to ship the config file Dec 14 15:12:49 5. Reinstall said application. Dec 14 15:13:05 6. Try to readd the shortcut. Dec 14 15:13:30 redeeman, you've a .desktop file right ? Dec 14 15:13:35 VDVsx: i do Dec 14 15:13:46 woglinde: fyi, in fedora 12 repo I see nx qtnx nxcl Dec 14 15:13:59 RST38h, for your next trick, can you make zlib not suck? *g* Dec 14 15:14:21 ya, make them read the FAQ, lazy users! Dec 14 15:14:40 clicking on your URL in the ABOUT box doesn't work, FYI _berto_ Dec 14 15:14:51 redeeman, you're talking about the app link ?, there's a bug in hildon desktop, kill hildon-dektop or reboot and check if the problem is in your package Dec 14 15:14:53 nor is there a way to copy it Dec 14 15:14:53 <_berto_> jebba: I know, that's to be fixed Dec 14 15:15:32 redeeman, it happens a lot of times when installing apps Dec 14 15:15:44 _berto_: if it's just a matter of including 1 file why not ease the pain? Dec 14 15:16:02 VDVsx: well yes, i wish to have my icon displayed on my shortcut on the "desktop", i made a .desktop entry and put symlink to in /usr/share/applications/hildon, and made an icon, which i symlinked into /usr/share/icons/hicolor/apps Dec 14 15:16:07 VDVsx: only 64x64 though Dec 14 15:16:09 png format Dec 14 15:16:36 redeeman, btw , did you updated the icon cache ? Dec 14 15:16:42 i tyhink it does automagically Dec 14 15:16:46 in your postinstall script Dec 14 15:16:55 because after updating the directories, it loads the application menu very slow Dec 14 15:17:04 btw, i have no postinst script, im doing this manually Dec 14 15:17:36 redeeman, so better restart and check if isn't the bug striking again Dec 14 15:17:49 just kill hildon-desktop? Dec 14 15:18:39 i think that reset it, lol :) Dec 14 15:18:45 redeeman, yes you can do it, but I recommend a restart Dec 14 15:18:51 *reboot Dec 14 15:18:58 it rebooted by killing hildon-desktop Dec 14 15:19:02 <_berto_> jebba: so what do you suggest? Dec 14 15:19:19 but icons are still not there Dec 14 15:20:56 redeeman, check if you've the correct name in the .desktop file Dec 14 15:21:12 i do Dec 14 15:21:17 http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/12/14/things-to-check-with-nokia-n900/ Dec 14 15:21:24 GAN: what zlib? Dec 14 15:21:26 i assume its just the filename without .png? Dec 14 15:21:30 which it seems to be for other packages Dec 14 15:21:33 mgedmin (and others with DDP): read that Dec 14 15:21:57 redeeman, yes Dec 14 15:23:30 redeeman, where did you put the symlink ? Dec 14 15:23:44 /usr/share/icons/hicolor/apps and /usr/share/applications/hildon Dec 14 15:23:50 erhm Dec 14 15:23:53 scalable aswell Dec 14 15:23:59 (hicolor/scalable/apps/) Dec 14 15:24:34 correct path is: usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ Dec 14 15:24:40 yes that's right Dec 14 15:24:42 oh Dec 14 15:24:43 hildon Dec 14 15:24:48 i thought that didn't matter Dec 14 15:24:52 okay, thanks, will try Dec 14 15:24:59 * RST38h received the DDP device but cannot test it =( Dec 14 15:25:15 RST38h: missed with courier? Dec 14 15:25:28 hrw: no, it came to my US address Dec 14 15:25:34 hrw: Will only get it around Jan 7 Dec 14 15:26:03 so after 1st week Dec 14 15:27:22 yes Dec 14 15:27:28 RST38h, libzlibrary. Dec 14 15:27:39 ah that Dec 14 15:27:43 what do you want fixed there? Dec 14 15:27:48 woglinde: isn't a nxclient binary needed? trying to get it running with nxproxy Dec 14 15:28:24 jebba qtnx is the nxclient Dec 14 15:28:25 RST38h, make it not ridiculously slow. ;) Dec 14 15:28:30 free software Dec 14 15:28:33 GAN: Feels ok to me Dec 14 15:28:38 _berto_: my suggestion is to include the last.fm serverlist or whatever it is too. So in the dropdown menu you can select whichever client you want. Dec 14 15:28:44 * RST38h fixed a crash in libzlibrary and integrated patches from qwerty Dec 14 15:28:54 It's slow to render. Dec 14 15:29:03 Look at it switching to fullscreen. Dec 14 15:29:07 woglinde: got a 1 line HOWTO? I'm doing it based on fedora docs, but there appear to be different binaries (e.g. no nxclient on n900= Dec 14 15:29:09 Or scrolling pages. Dec 14 15:29:09 rst hm which bug in zlib? Dec 14 15:29:10 yea, but it is ok Dec 14 15:29:26 jebba openconsole and type qtnx Dec 14 15:29:29 scrolling is no problem to me, switching to full screen takes a short moment, but it is not a showstopper Dec 14 15:29:54 <_berto_> jebba: I don't want Last.fm to block the Vagalume API key if they find out that I'm providing it for an unauthorized mobile phone client Dec 14 15:30:06 RST38h: Did you change the pressure settings when enabling tap pager on your device? Dec 14 15:30:19 fiferboy: not the default ones Dec 14 15:30:27 hi fiferboy Dec 14 15:30:32 Oh, for myself? Yes, I had to change them a bit Dec 14 15:30:38 RST38h, yeah, I agree. Was mostly elbowing you about spending a bunch of time rewriting the whole lin "while you're at it". ;) Dec 14 15:30:47 it still does not well differentiate between paging and list selection though Dec 14 15:30:52 RST38h: Do you recall what they are to work for you? Dec 14 15:30:57 hi woglinde Dec 14 15:30:58 GAN: No chance, unfortunately. Dec 14 15:31:02 ~curse slowness of garage Dec 14 15:31:03 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, slowness of garage ! Dec 14 15:31:07 haha Dec 14 15:31:09 s/lin/lib/ Dec 14 15:31:10 GAN900 meant: RST38h, yeah, I agree. Was mostly elbowing you about spending a bunch of time rewriting the whole lib "while you're at it". ;) Dec 14 15:31:18 GAN: And if there is any chance, I would rather redo the dialogs in Maemo version to use scrollable list Dec 14 15:31:47 RST38h, yeah, that was the main thrust of the joke. ;) Dec 14 15:34:39 okay ist child pickup time Dec 14 15:34:41 till later Dec 14 15:35:05 bye all Dec 14 15:36:26 anyone used an apt proxy with their NIT ? Like approx or apt-proxy ? Dec 14 15:36:37 woglinde: ya, but that's just for the client, not the server, no? I'm thinking ala: run nxproxy or somesuch on the n900, qtnx on laptop to connect to n900. But its been years since I've nx'd ;) Dec 14 15:36:43 ah ciao woglinde Dec 14 15:36:58 fiferboy: I can't remember right away Dec 14 15:37:08 extras(-*) work fine but the nokia ones do some weird funk, spitting out 403 forbiddens Dec 14 15:37:10 RST38h: Ah, okay Dec 14 15:37:27 I remember I had to make some changes for diablo to get it to work Dec 14 15:37:34 hello Dec 14 15:38:33 * RST38h does not see the Maemo config tab in 0.10.7_5 Dec 14 15:38:39 Weird.... Dec 14 15:38:44 Have I missed something? Dec 14 15:38:45 hm Dec 14 15:39:04 RST38h: I see the maemo tab Dec 14 15:39:16 fiferboy: between which tabs? Dec 14 15:39:22 At the very end Dec 14 15:39:42 after what tab? Dec 14 15:39:46 I just updated from qwerty's version to yours, but I think there is an option missing that you added? Dec 14 15:40:01 RST38h: After Web Dec 14 15:40:18 I do not see it here. Dec 14 15:40:21 I think something may have not updated cleanly for me, though Dec 14 15:40:30 I will uninstall and reinstall clean and let you know Dec 14 15:42:05 VDVsx: how do i update the icon cache? Dec 14 15:42:26 fiferboy, libzlib didn't update from h-a-m here. Dec 14 15:42:28 maybe some day there will be mer for G1 Dec 14 15:42:29 heh Dec 14 15:42:31 because it still doesn't work Dec 14 15:42:33 apt-get upgrade Dec 14 15:42:45 GAN900: Looks like that was my problem too Dec 14 15:42:55 GAN: is it a problem with packaging? Dec 14 15:43:09 jeremiah, are you around? Could you explain? Dec 14 15:43:16 redeeman, /usr/bin/gtk-update-icon-cache Dec 14 15:44:06 RST38h, likely. Dec 14 15:44:11 RST38h: Did you take libzlibrary out of user/* ? Dec 14 15:44:19 yes Dec 14 15:44:22 it is libs now Dec 14 15:44:27 is that wrong? Dec 14 15:44:29 RST38h, is the libzlib version high enough in the depends? Dec 14 15:44:30 If I uninstall and reinstall, it pulls the correct version of libzlibrary Dec 14 15:44:43 weird like hell Dec 14 15:44:47 RST38h, no, that's correct. Dec 14 15:44:50 Hrm Dec 14 15:44:55 RST38h: Well, that is where it *should* be, but it was a user package before Dec 14 15:45:04 I know Dec 14 15:45:07 and it was wrong Dec 14 15:45:13 Maybe HAM doesn't want to update a user/* package witha non-user/* ? Dec 14 15:45:18 The depends in the FBReader package should handle everything. Dec 14 15:45:27 fiferboy, ah! Dec 14 15:45:34 Yes, I think that's it. Dec 14 15:45:45 X-Fade, jeremiah, what will you say? Dec 14 15:46:11 RST38h: Hi Dec 14 15:46:16 fiferboy: do you still see the Maemo tab in config? Dec 14 15:46:25 jeremiah: we have got two packages Dec 14 15:46:33 jeremiah: one is in user/utilities, another one in libs Dec 14 15:46:47 for fbreader? Dec 14 15:46:47 RST38h: No Dec 14 15:46:51 hello,has anybody ported any clone of liero on maemo (5) already? Dec 14 15:46:53 jeremiah: looks like updating the user/utilities package does not lead to updating libs one Dec 14 15:47:04 fiferboy: somethign is broken then. will have to check at home tonight Dec 14 15:47:30 jeremiah; ALTHOUGH, the previous version of the libs package was marked user/libs Dec 14 15:47:35 VDVsx: it still doesn't work, are you sure it only requires 64x64 and that symlinks work? Dec 14 15:47:51 What package are we referring to? Dec 14 15:48:02 libzlibrary? Dec 14 15:48:04 fbreader / libzlibrary Dec 14 15:48:10 ah, okay. Dec 14 15:48:25 woglinde: fedora 12 also includes freenx-client freenx-server packages fyi Dec 14 15:48:28 So, fbreader is visable and downloadable? Dec 14 15:48:34 yes Dec 14 15:48:42 except for that little update problem Dec 14 15:48:45 But libzlibrary is not getting updated? Dec 14 15:49:08 What version should libzlibrary be? Dec 14 15:49:16 0.10.7_5 Dec 14 15:49:26 same as fbreader Dec 14 15:50:04 RST38h, fiferboy got itl Dec 14 15:50:14 redeeman, I told you, better check the docs, I never said that it only requires the 64x64, I also use a 48x48, not sure if is needed in maemo5 Dec 14 15:50:29 Also: who can we con into fixing the dialogs and menu so we can push this to Extras? Dec 14 15:50:31 GAN: Well if this is indeed a problem, it has to be fixed somehow Dec 14 15:50:53 GAN: If qwerty does it, I will gladly review and package the code Dec 14 15:51:12 GAN900: The developer of fbreader said he will be porting version 12 to maemo5 Dec 14 15:51:18 He just got an N900 Dec 14 15:51:24 In fact I suggest pushing it to extras as it is, it is way too useful to keep out of Extras Dec 14 15:51:33 redeeman, about the symlink it must work, but IMO is pure none sense making a symlink from a path in rootfs to another one in rootfs, I can't see the reason for that Dec 14 15:51:33 fiferboy: Geometer or MishaS? Dec 14 15:51:42 geometer Dec 14 15:51:47 have ot email him Dec 14 15:51:50 a moment Dec 14 15:51:57 VDVsx: what? i make a symlink into /opt Dec 14 15:52:35 redeeman, you said "/usr/share/icons/hicolor/apps" above ^ Dec 14 15:52:52 which points into /opt Dec 14 15:53:09 oh my, ok Dec 14 15:53:35 GAN900, RST38h: http://groups.google.com/group/fbreader/browse_thread/thread/bb40b2ab24a5a4ca?hl=en# Dec 14 15:54:30 so, remember me complaining about volume keys controlling volume and not going to the app, *sometimes*? Dec 14 15:54:30 redeeman, if you've a deb I can try to help, otherwise only guessing is a bit hard :p Dec 14 15:54:54 I thought it happened when I got the ubiquitous "unable to connect to one or more accounts" message on top Dec 14 15:54:58 well, I was wrong Dec 14 15:55:08 it just happens randomly every now and then Dec 14 15:55:22 only in fbreader (which I force to listen to volume keys by calling xprop manually from xterm) Dec 14 15:57:03 Getting my N900 tomorrow! :D Dec 14 15:57:38 henningms: congratulations Dec 14 15:57:48 Thanks, really looking forward to this device Dec 14 15:58:04 wait Dec 14 15:58:08 where are you from? Dec 14 15:58:15 Norway Dec 14 15:58:23 hm Dec 14 15:58:26 where did you buy it from? Dec 14 15:58:45 I ordered online from komplett.no Dec 14 15:58:52 hm Dec 14 15:58:59 hm?? Dec 14 15:59:00 fiferboy, well, let's be sure he gets our patches. Dec 14 15:59:13 sad, in "central" europe, its all sold out or still "preorder" Dec 14 15:59:27 i want it for xmas Dec 14 15:59:59 Yeah, it's my christmas gift to myself (that's nice right ;) Dec 14 16:00:07 ho ho ho Dec 14 16:00:11 GAN900: There is a new version for Linux/Windows released today, I want to check and see if the dialogs are any better Dec 14 16:00:13 It's almost sold out here aswell Dec 14 16:00:20 henningms: *almost* Dec 14 16:00:25 edit; it actually is sold out Dec 14 16:00:36 you lucky... Dec 14 16:00:40 the store I bought it from says confirmed 1 unit 15 december Dec 14 16:01:28 So it sold out pretty quickly I suppose Dec 14 16:06:58 Any one knows how can i apply the patches included in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/libi/libical/libical_1.43-99.3+0m5.tar.gz ? The goal being to read the patched sources ? Dec 14 16:07:13 something like rpmbuild -bp, but with dpkg Dec 14 16:07:27 That is a tarball melmoth Dec 14 16:07:33 yep, i know. Dec 14 16:07:49 the debian directory contain a set of patches that will be applyed when the package is built Dec 14 16:08:07 i would like to see how the source looks like after the set of patch have been applyed Dec 14 16:08:17 So you can use dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Dec 14 16:08:22 Gan,fiferboy: I sent Geometer an email Dec 14 16:08:35 jeremiah: this will build the package. Dec 14 16:08:38 melmoth: Yes. Dec 14 16:09:08 but then, where do i read the sources ? i mean the one that include the patch defines in the debian/patch directory ? Dec 14 16:09:11 You already have the source Dec 14 16:09:17 Or you should Dec 14 16:09:32 If not, you can use 'apt-get source ' Dec 14 16:09:32 ok home Dec 14 16:10:07 So, if you want the source of a particular package, it looks like in this case you want the source for libical Dec 14 16:10:10 this package is not in the src repo, but that s not the problem as the source pakage is actually available in the above url Dec 14 16:10:38 i want to have the maemo specifc patch applyed to the sources so i can read the patched version Dec 14 16:10:59 that should be in a dir called 'patch' Dec 14 16:11:04 or something similar. Dec 14 16:11:14 if i understand correclty, something like "debian/rules apply-patches" should do it, but , then if i diff the directory with an old copy, there are no changes. Dec 14 16:11:15 In the deb itself usually. Dec 14 16:11:53 melmoth: Are you certain there were patches applied? Dec 14 16:11:57 yes, the patches are in debian/patches, my problem is how to actually apply them all in the right order to see the sources as they will be compiled by dpkhg Dec 14 16:12:04 ah Dec 14 16:12:08 okay Dec 14 16:12:19 melmoth: in the case there, they are numbered. Dec 14 16:12:26 yes they are Dec 14 16:12:38 http://pastebin.com/m242fbd22 Dec 14 16:12:41 Yeah, I think you can use quilt to look at them before they are applied too Dec 14 16:12:58 quilt is a widely used tool to apply and manage patches in debian Dec 14 16:13:20 ok. I ll read a bit about quilt. Dec 14 16:13:29 melmoth: so i think they are being applied in numerical order. In some packages there is a debian/patches/series file, which lists patches to be applied and in which order. Dec 14 16:14:25 COOKIES OMNOMNOMNOM Dec 14 16:14:43 does anyone have an idea if the Nokia repositories are supposed to be (really) public ? I have the sinking feeling I'm poking something I'm not supposed to... Dec 14 16:14:55 which ones? Dec 14 16:15:05 * GAN900 finished the Key Lime pie last night. :( Dec 14 16:15:06 achipa: In what sense? Dec 14 16:15:21 Are you logged into the repo server? Dec 14 16:15:30 I can check anyway. :) Dec 14 16:15:36 https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/apps/ and friends Dec 14 16:16:23 I'm trying to proxy them for my N900 and something is fishy...as in can't wget files that apt-get update can get... Dec 14 16:16:39 achipa: welcome to apt authenticating your tablet Dec 14 16:16:49 heh Dec 14 16:16:52 similar sys as to n8x0s Dec 14 16:17:34 ah... Dec 14 16:20:11 act Dec 14 16:26:54 anyone tried ovi sharing with n900? i can't even get it to validate my account Dec 14 16:27:00 tried creating a fresh account but doesn't help Dec 14 16:27:33 there might be some service outages today with some ovi services Dec 14 16:28:04 it's been like that since last week, but i'll try again another day Dec 14 16:28:07 vesa: check your time on your n900 Dec 14 16:28:08 and date Dec 14 16:28:23 I've had problems in the past where the date was incorrectr Dec 14 16:28:24 -r Dec 14 16:28:46 date/time are correct. logging in via the webbrowser works fine Dec 14 16:28:52 mmk Dec 14 16:29:04 no idea then.. I'll check later on this evening when I get a chance Dec 14 16:48:27 Anyone know any good UK rolling 1 month SIMs that include data and actually WORK with the N900? Dec 14 16:49:29 "rolling 1 month" ? Dec 14 16:50:22 Yes, IE you're not locked into a 12, 18 or 24 month contract Dec 14 16:51:24 but not a prepaid? Dec 14 16:51:32 Gadgetoid, o2 Dec 14 16:53:15 I just tried a 1 month sim from o2/tschibo - phone works, internet broken atm. Dec 14 16:53:26 No idea why Dec 14 16:53:55 anyone tried zbarcam Dec 14 16:57:10 and just wondering... these apt user/passwords happen to be a per device thing, right ? Dec 14 16:57:21 yes Dec 14 16:58:13 are they retained after reflash or generated while flashing/firstbooting ? Dec 14 16:58:39 achipa, check the apt sources. ;) Dec 14 16:58:57 There was a patch for it in the source tree for Diablo. Dec 14 16:59:03 http://mxr.maemo.org Dec 14 16:59:04 http://www.strandreports.com/sw3896.asp -- stockholm syndrome, hah! Dec 14 16:59:55 afternoon Dec 14 17:00:13 GAN900: thx, I'm not THAT curious :) Dec 14 17:00:19 I currently have a Three SIM, har har Dec 14 17:00:47 achipa, shouldn't take more than a couple minutes to pull up. Dec 14 17:01:10 achipa: where's shepherd? :) Dec 14 17:02:08 lardman|home: yikes. totally forgot about sending that to you, sorry, will pack something up ASAP Dec 14 17:02:30 np, was just curious actually, had forgotten you were sending it to me! :) Dec 14 17:02:49 busy this week so don't rush too much Dec 14 17:03:41 * lardman|home wonders if it would be worth the application manager listing free space when it displays the space a package will consume when installed (during the installation process) Dec 14 17:03:42 _berto_: ok, deleted my last.fm account. bastards. Got libre.fm now. :) though i can't seem to add any tracks via vagalume (e.g. does it have a way to listen to *local* tracks?) Dec 14 17:04:08 lardman|home, did you built fftw for maemo yet ? Dec 14 17:04:24 VDVsx: not yet Dec 14 17:04:32 will try it in a minute if you want Dec 14 17:04:47 lardman|home, err, I can do it, not a problem :) Dec 14 17:04:53 been a bit busy as am teaching this week so had to sort out course updates, etc Dec 14 17:04:54 I really need it :P Dec 14 17:05:04 VDVsx: np, I was going to do so anyway Dec 14 17:05:34 yay, Qalculate! now works from the icon, though the menus need hildonising Dec 14 17:05:38 * Stskeeps yawns Dec 14 17:05:40 so if anyone fancies having a go please do Dec 14 17:05:58 VDVsx: wait a tic, I uploaded fftw a while back Dec 14 17:06:09 or was that just for diablo... Dec 14 17:06:16 * achipa needs coffee Dec 14 17:06:19 achipa: did you upload fort77? Dec 14 17:06:32 achipa, oh, I did found it Dec 14 17:06:59 achipa, was a long ago or just some few hours ? Dec 14 17:07:07 err, no. I believe I mercilessly butchered most of the fortran stuff Dec 14 17:07:12 long ago Dec 14 17:07:28 achipa, so perhaps only for diablo Dec 14 17:07:30 <_berto_> jebba: no, you can't listen to local tracks Dec 14 17:08:17 VDVsx: looks ok, let me try a build Dec 14 17:08:54 lardman|home: if the fort77 stuff bogs you down, just reupload my diablo sources Dec 14 17:09:11 it should pass through fremantle just as easy... Dec 14 17:09:56 lardman|home, I doing a local build atm, without fortran, but feel free to do a proper package Dec 14 17:09:59 achipa: no, I've pushed fort77 + libf2c to Fremantle, but was stopped for Diablo Dec 14 17:10:04 as fort77 already exists Dec 14 17:10:18 though libf2c doesn't, curiously Dec 14 17:10:30 <_berto_> Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '<' in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/helper/_styleloader.php(637) : eval()'d code on line 171 Dec 14 17:10:39 <_berto_> that's in maemo.org Dec 14 17:10:50 <_berto_> https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mplayer/ Dec 14 17:11:01 _berto_, new servers setup, perhaps Dec 14 17:12:45 lardman|home, ok, took some time, but it's easy to build :) Dec 14 17:13:39 do you already have an ARM build then? Dec 14 17:14:09 Stskeeps: hey, we were talking previously about n900 gps and location-test-gui - I was unable to get a fix except for that one time, even with a SIM and t-mobile USA 3G/3.5G UMTS/HSDPA service, with any of the settings in LTG Dec 14 17:14:29 Hydroxide: odd Dec 14 17:14:56 lardman|home, yup, gonna install it now on the device, without it I can test my last work on the device :( Dec 14 17:15:01 Stskeeps: even with much view of the sky Dec 14 17:15:12 VDVsx: have you pushed it to the repo? Dec 14 17:15:19 Stskeeps: one person in the tmo n900 gps problem thread mentioned that it might be specific to t-mobile usa Dec 14 17:15:30 grr. N900 is *STILL* out of stock. Dec 14 17:15:42 maybe it filters supl port, Hydroxide? Dec 14 17:15:42 Do I just wait for the google phone, and sell my soul to the other evil overlords? :P Dec 14 17:15:46 lardman|home, no, I build it locally after talk to you, lol Dec 14 17:15:52 ok :) Dec 14 17:16:06 I'm not that fast, lol Dec 14 17:16:12 hoi lardman Dec 14 17:16:16 hi woglinde Dec 14 17:16:16 ~seen x-fade Dec 14 17:16:17 x-fade is currently on #maemo (2d 19h 22m 12s). Has said a total of 11 messages. Is idling for 2h 30m 58s, last said: 'mgedmin: mic was not an issue. Was fmradio doing something wrong.'. Dec 14 17:16:37 Stskeeps: which one is that? I can test to a personal server of mine Dec 14 17:16:51 supl.nokia.com cant recall port Dec 14 17:17:09 heh, yeah. I was just going to set up a netcat listening on the right port Dec 14 17:17:27 yeah Dec 14 17:17:32 Hmm, wiicontrol sucks a bit at the moment Dec 14 17:17:34 google it, Hydroxide Dec 14 17:17:37 VDVsx: did you apply any ARM optimisations? Dec 14 17:17:46 lardman|home, gonna test if everything is working well, if you want I can upload it to the repos, let me know Dec 14 17:17:51 VDVsx: because I think they might well be needed to make it quick enough Dec 14 17:18:15 VDVsx: feel free, will stop my bui;d Dec 14 17:18:20 AbstractW, Android is no Maemo. Dec 14 17:18:26 lardman|home, not at all Dec 14 17:18:34 Stskeeps: I've been... I might have found it Dec 14 17:18:52 lardman|home, apart from the ones already in the upstream debian rules Dec 14 17:19:15 nothing ARM related in there afaict Dec 14 17:19:18 :( Dec 14 17:19:53 lardman|home, nop Dec 14 17:20:06 well, something to look at for the futyre Dec 14 17:20:14 I guess it will be pretty important for you Dec 14 17:20:20 lardman|home, so I'll use this one, and wait for your with this optimizations :P Dec 14 17:20:25 lol Dec 14 17:20:44 well I'll get there in the end, I guess there must be some simd patches about for ARM Dec 14 17:21:09 GAN900: This is true, but I can't seem to find me an N900! :P Dec 14 17:21:49 lardman|home, my stuff is not too heavy, is a simple DFT calculate from a array of 60 to 256 elements Dec 14 17:21:52 * mgedmin feels a bit guilty for having two ... Dec 14 17:22:27 * VDVsx steals booth mgedmin's n900s Dec 14 17:22:31 VDVsx: ok Dec 14 17:22:56 VDVsx: single frequency component? Dec 14 17:23:55 lardman|home, yes, there's more than one, but I want to do everything separated Dec 14 17:24:10 I wonder if it uses Goertzel? Dec 14 17:24:35 never having actually used fftw directly Dec 14 17:24:53 lardman|home, humm, dunno Dec 14 17:25:20 lardman|home, but everything is explained in their website Dec 14 17:25:34 np Dec 14 17:34:22 lardman|home, ok, gonna upload that version(without fortran), seems to work fine Dec 14 17:34:36 hmm Dec 14 17:34:46 hang on 5 min and I'll upload one with FORTRAN Dec 14 17:34:58 just waiting for the tests to be performed Dec 14 17:35:11 lardman|home, oki, do you've a gfortran packages ? Dec 14 17:35:24 no, use fort77 Dec 14 17:35:25 I need that for other stuff as well Dec 14 17:35:38 straight swap of gfortran for fort77 Dec 14 17:35:43 in the deps Dec 14 17:35:48 Bah, I have failed editing the wiicontrol python script Dec 14 17:35:53 then a possibly addition of libf2c in the libs section Dec 14 17:35:55 Or it's just decided to cease working Dec 14 17:36:15 dollhouse isnt that good Dec 14 17:36:29 VDVsx: what else have you built that needs FORTRAN? Dec 14 17:36:29 they should have gotten a better actress for the lead role Dec 14 17:36:52 lardman|home, stupid apt-get didn't found that when I search for fortran Dec 14 17:36:57 summer glau would have been able to pull it off way better Dec 14 17:37:05 lardman|home, IIRC some games Dec 14 17:37:14 wow, with FORTRAN! :) Dec 14 17:37:44 lardman|home, stupid thinks there, I didn't dig that much Dec 14 17:38:21 lardman|home, there's also other requiring pascal and I've also find some requiring haskell ;) Dec 14 17:38:40 Pascal would be interesting to have, but I don't have anything specific for it Dec 14 17:38:52 Am currently building Octave deps Dec 14 17:39:24 lardman|home, I think is already there, because is one of the frozen.bubble deps IIRC Dec 14 17:39:36 anyway I don't have time for ports atm : Dec 14 17:41:06 lardman|home, btw, you're building the one of the last version of fftw right ? Dec 14 17:41:49 version 2.x has some performance problems, according to the authors Dec 14 17:41:54 3.x is fine Dec 14 17:43:28 my goodness, these fftw tests take an age! Dec 14 17:44:10 hmm, that Inventec N18 looks perfectly sized Dec 14 17:52:02 anybody have a good way to rip dvd and convert to playable 720x480 Dec 14 17:52:34 pupnik try hadnbrake Dec 14 17:52:47 http://handbrake.fr/ Dec 14 17:53:01 Jaffa crops, which i dont want. I want scaling to 600x480, then stretch to 720x280 Dec 14 17:53:05 using it Dec 14 17:53:23 it gives me .mkv, which n900 ignores Dec 14 17:53:41 or .m4v which is still too slow Dec 14 17:54:06 if i find good settings i will submit to handbrake Dec 14 17:54:26 720x480 Dec 14 17:55:34 pupnik: Have you tried SUPER? Dec 14 17:55:57 you would need to do dvddecrypter and autogk first Dec 14 17:55:58 what is that Dec 14 17:56:02 k Dec 14 17:56:06 pupnik. in handbrake use ffmpeg and aac Dec 14 17:56:21 and scale it down to 480x320 Dec 14 17:56:23 ahh my ffmpeg is not showing Dec 14 17:56:31 might need to reinstall it Dec 14 17:56:38 pupnik: Pass the -o option to tablet-encode to maintain original aspect ratio Dec 14 17:57:05 yeah your 480p runs nicely Dec 14 17:57:06 pupnik: Then you get the benefit of tablet-encode's episode detection, language selection and main feature detection that handrbake doesn't Dec 14 17:57:40 pupnik, i use ffmpeg Dec 14 17:57:44 in handbrake Dec 14 17:57:57 k good to know ty! Dec 14 17:58:00 have to choose mp4 Dec 14 17:58:10 what audio codec? Dec 14 17:58:13 as the type of file Dec 14 17:58:15 aac Dec 14 17:58:30 128k aac should work Dec 14 17:58:36 stereo Dec 14 17:58:42 ok. gotta go Dec 14 18:06:33 VDVsx: still building...... Dec 14 18:06:49 lardman_, what machine do you've ? lol Dec 14 18:07:03 dual core 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM Dec 14 18:07:18 lardman_, not a rush for me Dec 14 18:07:19 something like that anyway Dec 14 18:07:34 lardman, strange took around 10 min here Dec 14 18:07:47 ah, is performing the tests too here Dec 14 18:07:57 with the tests, but I think you can disable the tests Dec 14 18:08:35 it also seems to build ~4 sets of fftw for different things - double, singles, etc., etc. Dec 14 18:09:33 http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/connecting-on-the-surface-an-n900-risk/ ... uhm is the phone jack also surface monted? Dec 14 18:10:26 lardman_, yup, different arithmetics, thats good :) Dec 14 18:11:00 cehteh: as I understand, no Dec 14 18:11:03 reducing stretch from 720x480 to 700x480 helps performance Dec 14 18:11:08 cehteh: it's pressed on, and is a push-connector Dec 14 18:11:15 cehteh: it can be easily and cheaply replaced Dec 14 18:11:54 i hope so phone jacks very easily wear out Dec 14 18:12:12 well the usb thing sux too... Dec 14 18:14:51 ah yes .. looking at the pcb pics .. its not directly mointed on the board Dec 14 18:15:14 Also - http://www.klc.fi/en/products.php?p=36c0b1 Dec 14 18:16:22 the idea with a back with contacts for a charge cradle looks good Dec 14 18:16:46 yeah, it's complex though Dec 14 18:17:07 to do it right, you want to tie in to the existing charger, and have a USB port too Dec 14 18:17:54 not that much, self adhesive metal foil (copper, gold coated) .. few thin wires connect to the usb port, maybe a protection diode .. Dec 14 18:18:23 this scans everything though i only added one video... Dec 14 18:18:36 PID PPID USER STAT RSS %MEM %CPU COMMAND Dec 14 18:18:36 1664 1 user S 21104 8.5 88.3 /usr/libexec/gst-video-thumbnailerd Dec 14 18:18:49 i want to disable video thumbnailing Dec 14 18:18:51 hmm, failed while building docs after all that time Dec 14 18:19:18 * ifreq makes note: dont _ever_ plug machine into usbport when it has mediaplayer running Dec 14 18:19:33 Stskeeps, it shouldnt have to re-thumbnail everything, should it? Dec 14 18:19:44 ty ifreq Dec 14 18:20:28 freezes a bit when it tryes to mount usb storage same time when its reserved with media player *sigh* Dec 14 18:20:31 pupnik: check the source? Dec 14 18:21:07 http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-video-thumbnailer/ Dec 14 18:27:33 lardman, I removed the docs, they useless for maemo, and they're big (PDF, PS, ...) Dec 14 18:27:46 *they are Dec 14 18:28:15 yep, just done that now, need to re-build Dec 14 18:30:38 lardman, also there's some deps that the docs require that aren't in available in the repos Dec 14 18:30:56 re-heya Dec 14 18:30:58 * Stskeeps throws wazd_n800 a cookie Dec 14 18:31:24 * wazd_n800 barks Dec 14 18:31:25 yeah, noticed that before the build, hoped it would just not bother with those, but was wrong Dec 14 18:31:30 :) Dec 14 18:31:30 * VDVsx throws wazd_n800 a stick Dec 14 18:31:33 lol Dec 14 18:32:50 moooo all Dec 14 18:32:59 lardman, wazd, VDVsx: heya Dec 14 18:33:10 hey RST38h Dec 14 18:33:22 RST38h, moo Dec 14 18:33:31 So, to make sure: "libs" or "user/libs" for the library dependencies? Dec 14 18:33:50 libs Dec 14 18:35:12 wazd_n800: had a good day? Dec 14 18:35:29 Stskeeps: people have trouble updating Dec 14 18:35:41 hi RST38h Dec 14 18:35:48 * VDVsx goes to TMO, ugh Dec 14 18:36:08 VDVsx, fail. Dec 14 18:36:13 Stskeeps, as always) Dec 14 18:36:38 GAN900, why ? I can't help people anymore ? :P Dec 14 18:36:44 VDVsx: to HUNT, I assume? Dec 14 18:36:59 Is there any way to remove my Maemo.org account? I don't want "community voting" emails anymore, I don't do anything with Maemo anymore, but I see no option to kill my account, and no contact email to write for help. I even wrote Nokia and they brushed me off. Dec 14 18:37:30 lol Dec 14 18:37:37 X-Fade, ^ Dec 14 18:37:54 * AndrewBlack can´t believe no Last.fm support in Valgume anymore Dec 14 18:37:55 Vagalume no longer supports Last.fm? Dec 14 18:37:59 Heh Dec 14 18:38:05 AndrewBlack: hi-5 :) Dec 14 18:38:10 RST38h, lol Dec 14 18:38:17 RST38h, nah, just to see what's happening there Dec 14 18:38:29 VDVsx: Same Dec 14 18:38:45 RST38h, Last.fm has blocked Mobile phone apps but I say n900 isn´t a mobile phone its a computer :) Dec 14 18:38:52 VDVsx: I still hope there is some subforum where I can go and read intelligeble stuff Dec 14 18:39:01 Andrew: weird Dec 14 18:39:07 its a mobilephone Dec 14 18:39:11 =P Dec 14 18:39:11 korpios, send a email with your request to niels at maemo dot org Dec 14 18:39:19 any of you get autoconf 2.62 into scratchbox? Dec 14 18:39:21 VDVsx: thanks Dec 14 18:39:30 required for pulseaudio Dec 14 18:39:37 korpios, xfade in this channel is who you need to talk to Dec 14 18:39:45 korpios, if that doesn't solve your problem, feel free to ping me here Dec 14 18:39:48 mooo Dec 14 18:40:04 javispedro, hey Dec 14 18:40:23 Mousey, Without simcard n900 is just a Tablet like n810 Dec 14 18:40:27 heya VDVsx :) Dec 14 18:40:34 s/simcard/cell radio/. Dec 14 18:40:40 no, Dec 14 18:40:53 without simcard a n900 is like an expensive Tablet :) Dec 14 18:41:02 without cellradio a n900 is more like an usual Tablet ;) Dec 14 18:41:04 AndrewBlack, RST38h according to last.fm you still can use it in the n8x0, since isn't a phone :) Dec 14 18:41:05 * Mousey wishes they still made the n810 Dec 14 18:41:30 there, see? Dec 14 18:41:31 ah, just edit the configure.ac and downgrade requirement Dec 14 18:41:33 cell phone Dec 14 18:41:41 Mousey: want to buy mine? Dec 14 18:41:41 * Mousey crie Dec 14 18:41:48 luke-jr: is it NIB? Dec 14 18:41:51 NIB? Dec 14 18:41:54 new, in box Dec 14 18:41:58 of course not Dec 14 18:42:03 oh, then no. ^_^ Dec 14 18:42:05 VDVsx, yeah I know doesn´t me I don´t want it still, or even a pandora radio application Dec 14 18:42:21 libre.fm appears to suck royally Dec 14 18:42:30 Hi Dec 14 18:42:32 isn't the "YouTube sharing plugin" a glaring omission in the default firmware? Dec 14 18:42:35 AndrewBlack, same here :) Dec 14 18:43:11 I was trying to find a linux pandora client I could talk to some people into hildonizing but I cant find on Dec 14 18:43:30 meh. uninstalling vagalume =( Dec 14 18:44:18 Mousey: I can include a MicroSD adapter... Dec 14 18:44:25 got one. =/ Dec 14 18:44:35 :| Dec 14 18:44:54 btw. Dec 14 18:45:02 Vagalume is going to lose just about all its users Dec 14 18:45:08 the RSS app is not refreshing for me. where would I start debugging that? :) Dec 14 18:45:15 well, not the n810 users ^_^ Dec 14 18:45:17 wtf is Vagalume? Dec 14 18:45:30 s/refreshing/autodownloading Dec 14 18:46:03 er, herm. Dec 14 18:47:57 http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2009/12/14/vagalume-0-8-released-now-with-support-for-libre-fm/#comment-20580 Dec 14 18:48:00 *shrug* Dec 14 18:48:13 VDVsx: looking at the tests, how did you disable them? Edit the Makefile? Dec 14 18:48:58 lardman|home, I didn't disabled the test, but you can disable them in the rules file Dec 14 18:49:21 ah, indeed you can Dec 14 18:49:38 lardman|home, these lines: ( cd tests ; $(MAKE) smallcheck ) Dec 14 18:50:09 yep, got it, thanks Dec 14 18:52:37 lardman|home, , now I noticed "smallcheck", glad they didn't implemented the extensive/long check :D will take ages :D Dec 14 18:53:12 :) Dec 14 18:53:19 just commented out all the checks Dec 14 18:53:30 will build and upload, with the FORTRAN wrappers Dec 14 18:54:28 yo lardman|home Dec 14 18:54:36 hey crashanddie Dec 14 18:55:06 hey crashanddie, already in the far far way land ? :D Dec 14 18:57:55 re Dec 14 18:58:20 ugh Dec 14 18:58:30 <_berto_> guys Dec 14 18:58:40 <_berto_> I tried to talk to the last.fm guys several times Dec 14 18:58:43 <_berto_> but I got no reply at all Dec 14 19:00:09 wonder if http://projects.gnome.org/rhythmbox/ could be ported to n900 to make use of the last.fm player in it Dec 14 19:00:37 <_berto_> in theory that doesn't make a difference, they say that you cannot use last.fm on a phone Dec 14 19:00:41 <_berto_> no matter the app you use Dec 14 19:01:19 <_berto_> you _can_ use vagalume with last.fm on a n900 for that matter Dec 14 19:01:23 <_berto_> it's just that it's not enabled by default Dec 14 19:01:28 VDVsx: no, still in California Dec 14 19:01:51 do you guys have to copy headers from your host system into your scratchbox target like I do? Dec 14 19:01:55 _berto_ they said you can´t use it on mobile but if Iḿ using it on wifi tehy can tell its coming from a mobile Dec 14 19:02:16 <_berto_> they cannot tell the difference Dec 14 19:02:28 root@maemo-desktop:/scratchbox/users/maemo/home/maemo# cp -r /usr/include/gdbm* /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/include/ Dec 14 19:02:29 _berto_: when this discussion was hot with mobbler, the response from lastfm was that they'll co-operate with software developers to make sure their apps work Dec 14 19:02:30 _berto_, thas why I meant Dec 14 19:03:21 so I'm a bit sceptic on "cannot use last.fm on a phone" Dec 14 19:03:38 <_berto_> Myrtti: I'm a bit too, but I tried to get confirmation from them and I didn't get any Dec 14 19:03:41 _berto_ from the looks of it last.fm is removed not just disabled by default Dec 14 19:03:54 on valgaume Dec 14 19:04:17 <_berto_> AndrewBlack: well, enabling it is a matter of downloading a file and importing it into vagalume Dec 14 19:04:53 just remind them N900 is not a phone Dec 14 19:04:56 :p Dec 14 19:05:01 _berto_: well.. would be also good to generate own API key too Dec 14 19:05:20 _berto_ what file is that? Dec 14 19:05:34 they're not impossible people to discuss with. And perhaps as mobbler people too about their discussion with last.fm Dec 14 19:05:35 <_berto_> AndrewBlack: http://vagalume.igalia.com/faq.html Dec 14 19:05:36 pupnik: you do ugly think Dec 14 19:05:40 extras-devel is not wanting to paly nice with me today Dec 14 19:05:46 pupnik: apt-get install libgdbm-dev instead Dec 14 19:06:08 <_berto_> AndrewBlack: something like this one: http://gitorious.org/vagalume/vagalume/blobs/raw/vagalume-0.8/data/servers.xml.in Dec 14 19:07:05 hrw apt-get install from *within* the armel target? i cant remember : Dec 14 19:07:16 _berto_, thanks Dec 14 19:07:20 libgdbm-dev is already on host system Dec 14 19:07:20 pupnik: exactly Dec 14 19:07:23 ta Dec 14 19:07:30 pupnik: host != target Dec 14 19:07:52 _berto_: that's not a solution for endusers though. Dec 14 19:07:53 things like autoconf it finds from host system, but not includes. quite sensible, now that i think. Dec 14 19:07:54 <_berto_> if someone manages to get a reply from last.fm wrt this I'll be happy to release a new version for the n900 Dec 14 19:07:56 pupnik: always keep your system clean by using packages - otherwise you will loose track what you broke inside Dec 14 19:07:59 <_berto_> Myrtti: yes, I know Dec 14 19:08:05 How does one get those pretty top-part-of-the-screen menus in maemo when making an app with qt? Dec 14 19:08:11 pupnik: if it finds it in host then it is broken Dec 14 19:08:23 Lynoure: use QActions Dec 14 19:08:40 Lynoure: create QMenuBar with toplevel QActions Dec 14 19:08:54 Lynoure: no menus, no submenus, just toplevel entries Dec 14 19:09:03 hrw: Ah, toplevel. Thanks Dec 14 19:09:18 I think that I will write 'how to Qt on maemo5' blog post Dec 14 19:09:20 _berto_: surely it should be you who should be getting a response? A random member of the audience doesn't really make any effect on the last.fm people, I somehow have the recollection that the staff had a vagalume user too Dec 14 19:09:23 but not today Dec 14 19:09:46 why does target ship with broken networking still Dec 14 19:09:46 <_berto_> Myrtti: yes, I know they used it in the N800 at least Dec 14 19:10:14 I was amused how an QAction with text Exit or Close gets heaved out of the File menu to be on the same level as the menus Dec 14 19:10:24 pupnik: thats scratchbox and maemosdk is beyond my knowledge Dec 14 19:10:27 But if I use Sulje instead, it stays =) Dec 14 19:10:46 Lynoure: my app had File/Open and File/Exit buttons Dec 14 19:10:53 Funny little workaround they have. Dec 14 19:11:21 Lynoure: you can also get Qt 4.6 from extras-devel instead of Qt 4.5 ones. Dec 14 19:11:39 hrw: I only had File->Exit and Help->About and was left wondering about the difference in behaviour before a bit of experimentation Dec 14 19:11:53 hrw: I think I'm not ready for tech previews, yet Dec 14 19:12:18 omnomnom curry Dec 14 19:12:20 _berto_, is that api the same as default one or did you change it? Dec 14 19:12:27 Lynoure: UI is better hildonized but yes, thats TP still Dec 14 19:12:38 <_berto_> AndrewBlack: i'm using the new api now Dec 14 19:12:45 Myrtti, now you've gone and made me hungry. Dec 14 19:12:55 <_berto_> but you can still use the old one, there's a setting in the config file Dec 14 19:13:00 hrw: still have problems with the stable version, like QApplication::beep() not beeping Dec 14 19:13:18 Lynoure: #qt-maemo Dec 14 19:13:18 (not on my laptop, not in scratchbox) Dec 14 19:13:25 hrw: thanks :) Dec 14 19:13:52 Lynoure: maybe also #maemo-devel Dec 14 19:14:39 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 14 19:14:47 * timeless_mbp needs to write another control panel Dec 14 19:14:56 timeless_mbp: which now? Dec 14 19:15:10 hrw: "Give your Presence Account a name" Dec 14 19:15:18 hrw: I think I'll start with #qt-maemo and consider than scarier place later =) Dec 14 19:15:20 if you create a SIP account, its name is "SIP" Dec 14 19:15:22 timeless_mbp: lovely! Dec 14 19:15:25 (actually, its name is "") Dec 14 19:15:32 (but it defaults to showing "SIP") Dec 14 19:15:42 if you have 2 SIP accounts, then they're both shown as "SIP" Dec 14 19:15:43 ok to fix maemo VMware sdk networking, cp /etc/resolv.conf to /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf Dec 14 19:15:44 timeless_mbp: finally I will be able to name my Jabber/SIP accounts Dec 14 19:15:47 which is of course... very helpful Dec 14 19:15:54 hrw: ayup Dec 14 19:15:58 so i take it, you'd use it Dec 14 19:16:04 hrw: can you find an icon for me? Dec 14 19:16:08 timeless_mbp: add option to temporary disable accounts too - please, please Dec 14 19:16:19 "temporarily" ==? Dec 14 19:16:25 timeless_mbp: what kind of icon? Dec 14 19:16:35 well, each control panel item needs an icon Dec 14 19:16:41 timeless_mbp: "do not connect to this Jabber now because it is work account and I am on holidays" Dec 14 19:16:55 hrw: you can add a status for that Dec 14 19:17:02 i have a soccer icon which is "Test Ekiga" Dec 14 19:17:22 (actually, the name of the status is "Test", but all it enables is Ekiga, so functionally it's Test Ekiga) Dec 14 19:18:02 and if the fact that you can do this with the 'status' feature isn't discoverable, well, .... Dec 14 19:18:07 timeless_mbp: thx - did not noticed it before Dec 14 19:18:19 i can't say i'm shocked Dec 14 19:18:40 hard to find a bit Dec 14 19:19:20 well... the sad thing is, it's roughly where it belongs Dec 14 19:19:24 just poorly advertised Dec 14 19:20:12 right Dec 14 19:21:18 got a better word than 'status'? Dec 14 19:21:22 it's roughly a configuration Dec 14 19:21:26 but that doesn't fit Dec 14 19:22:00 timeless_mbp: but why you write separate control panel for it? Dec 14 19:22:20 for which? Dec 14 19:22:22 timeless_mbp: should not name be part of 'IM & Chat accounts' (or how it is in English)? Dec 14 19:22:26 to let people rename accounts? Dec 14 19:22:34 yep Dec 14 19:22:38 because the ui designer omitted it Dec 14 19:22:55 and i'm not going to spend a year trying to convince the ui designer that he or she is ... Dec 14 19:23:20 timeless_mbp: and thats why we will get official control panel to rename things definied in other official control panel? Dec 14 19:23:34 i work on the browser Dec 14 19:23:38 you'd get it from extras Dec 14 19:23:42 ok Dec 14 19:23:47 insane anyway Dec 14 19:23:47 just like my localization would come from extras Dec 14 19:24:05 (just like a decent clock database will be in extras, i need to push that this weekend) Dec 14 19:24:37 timeless_mbp: and you cannot even request it to be added by reporting bug in bugtracker because 'it is enhancement which was not designed so deserve to get lost in brainstorm only' Dec 14 19:24:52 that's better than internally Dec 14 19:24:58 internally we don't even have a brainstorm Dec 14 19:25:28 timeless_mbp: I would prefer to not have BS anyway Dec 14 19:25:36 timeless_mbp: that sounds like a rather bad system then Dec 14 19:25:44 but thats me - outsider which do not track any of maemo ML or forums Dec 14 19:25:55 anyone getting network connection error with vagalume? Dec 14 19:26:36 hrw: you think i like BS? Dec 14 19:27:18 timeless_mbp: nope, I do not think so Dec 14 19:27:28 oh good Dec 14 19:27:30 timeless_mbp: I think that you are sane person Dec 14 19:28:23 I wouldn't mind brainstorm if you could make comments like in ubuntu brainstorm Dec 14 19:28:43 you *could* make comments Dec 14 19:28:48 it's been removed. Dec 14 19:29:00 (in the maemo.org BS) Dec 14 19:29:05 s/in/from Dec 14 19:29:14 oh well... Dec 14 19:29:16 there's a bs forum though Dec 14 19:29:18 (on tmo) Dec 14 19:29:43 w00t: show me developers which likes forums Dec 14 19:29:50 forums are SHITE Dec 14 19:29:54 hrw: I am one Dec 14 19:30:12 w00t: I am one who do not and knew few more Dec 14 19:30:15 after having moderated several forums for several years, I will not use any new ones even if my life would depend on it Dec 14 19:30:31 hrw: sure, I can give you examples both ways, but you asked for an example and I gave you one Dec 14 19:30:41 sure Dec 14 19:30:45 hrw: it's irrelevant anyway: he asked to make comments, I pointed him in the direction to do so Dec 14 19:30:53 who? Dec 14 19:31:09 me? Dec 14 19:31:15 sure Dec 14 19:31:19 a-ha. Dec 14 19:31:38 stupid English language and gender specific pronomins Dec 14 19:31:56 i'm preparing to eat dinner after starving, so i'm not as clear as i could bre Dec 14 19:32:09 Myrtti: which lang is your native? Dec 14 19:32:19 hrw: Finnish, ofc ;-) Dec 14 19:32:28 Finnish ftw Dec 14 19:32:46 * konttori was just reading http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=374 and was impressed. Very nice. Dec 14 19:32:47 w00t: no, it's not you, it's the pronoun Dec 14 19:32:49 Myrtti: my native is Polish and we have more complicated grammar then English has Dec 14 19:32:49 Myrtti: I thought it was pink Dec 14 19:33:07 Myrtti: btw theres #n900 on ircnet if youre bored someday :P Dec 14 19:33:15 (and ircnet user) Dec 14 19:33:36 ifreq: I gave up on that shit hole some years ago. I'm still online there but don't bother with any channels Dec 14 19:33:47 ok Dec 14 19:33:56 hmm anyone have an iptables package for fremantle? and a nat module? Dec 14 19:33:57 dont give up for your life yet. Dec 14 19:34:11 ifreq: I'm cutting down my channels in freenode too... Dec 14 19:34:59 konttori, look at the code and you'll be even more impressed :P Dec 14 19:35:48 I have been digging a bit onto the recent qt code announcements and I'm wildly impressed Dec 14 19:36:13 Myrtti: nice pages btw :) layout is very nice Dec 14 19:36:22 like the openbossa code for showing the weather demo Dec 14 19:36:41 QML is very impressive, with a few lines of code you can do a game, for e.g the samegame is around 300 lines IIRC Dec 14 19:37:08 VDVsx: my C++ coded moduleplayer is 347 loc Dec 14 19:37:32 hrw, what's that ? :) Dec 14 19:37:59 who wants to give the final thumb up to supertux: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/supertux-stable/0.1.3-1.1maemo12/ Dec 14 19:38:26 VDVsx: well, it's QT. you can get a lot stuff done in short time Dec 14 19:38:27 VDVsx: check my blog - I posted about it Dec 14 19:38:29 our friend with Scandinavian keyboards will appreciate ;) Dec 14 19:38:53 * hrw -> out. my daughter just came to grab me Dec 14 19:38:57 arachnist, QML is more javascript, but still Dec 14 19:39:19 hrw|gone, your blog, lol, url ? Dec 14 19:39:28 ifreq: I can't take credit, the design is not mine Dec 14 19:39:31 argh, javascript! Dec 14 19:39:48 hi javis Dec 14 19:39:59 VDVsx, see Planet. Dec 14 19:40:03 hi woglinde Dec 14 19:40:12 evening Dec 14 19:40:25 * VDVsx hits javispedro with the javascript black bible Dec 14 19:40:35 GAN900, thanks for the hint Dec 14 19:42:46 GAN900, humm, can find anything about hrw|gone 's game Dec 14 19:43:09 *can't Dec 14 19:43:43 ah ok Dec 14 19:43:46 player, lol Dec 14 19:44:44 * javispedro thinks that for javascripty GUIs webOS is the only one that gets it right. fortunately, he hates javascripty guis. Dec 14 19:46:49 ok, now I can't even order DDP Dec 14 19:46:58 nothing happens Dec 14 19:48:09 konttori: btw, so in PR1.1 fullscreened apps are non composited by default? (no need for special window properties?) Dec 14 19:48:32 yeah, unless you request e.g. the composited zooming Dec 14 19:48:50 of you have any window on the stack that needs composition Dec 14 19:48:55 it's nice and automatic Dec 14 19:49:22 in pr1.2 you can also just set a window to autorotate mode, so you don't need to care about the rotation anymore. Dec 14 19:49:36 it works fine on current release with the _HILDON_NON_COMPOSITED property Dec 14 19:49:58 the speed bump is impressive :) Dec 14 19:50:11 konttori, what about the input focus problem, still the same or was fixed ? Dec 14 19:50:35 though I'm still trying to get animation_actor stuff working with SDL. Dec 14 19:51:38 wazd_n800, no N900 for you, maybe the next one, we'l see Dec 14 19:51:40 :D Dec 14 19:52:02 VDVsx: what input focus prob? Dec 14 19:52:41 javispedro: yeah, you can use the non-composited even now. It will just also be automatic for fullscreen windows in the future (which is convenient imho) Dec 14 19:53:13 konttori: agreed (I think compiz does something similar) Dec 14 19:53:45 konttori, in maemo5 all windows need an explicit XSetInputFocus() call, that a bit against the specs Dec 14 19:53:49 hi. how can i change the bg/fg colors in osso-xterm? Dec 14 19:53:53 VDVsx: that's not true, see my posts Dec 14 19:53:55 and also the rotation change is there as a convenience Dec 14 19:54:04 javispedro, where ? Dec 14 19:54:22 VDVsx: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36952 Dec 14 19:54:44 and SDL apps don't have the call. (neither do Gtk+ apps, fwiw) Dec 14 19:55:27 VDVsx, I'm not sure :D Dec 14 19:55:31 javispedro, because GTK+ implemented that, same for Qt Dec 14 19:55:39 Qt actually does the call Dec 14 19:55:41 Gtk does not Dec 14 19:55:45 VDVsx, one more t-shirt maybe) Dec 14 19:55:52 javispedro, http://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-maemo-developers/qt/qt-maemo/commit/fbf22e64599b220cf95ca90d27d0eb6cdeaa91fe Dec 14 19:55:56 (and according to Kimmo that's because they didn't talk to him or something like that ;) ) Dec 14 19:56:15 Ok, I have fixed the Maemo config tab in FBreader Dec 14 19:56:44 Anything else you people want me to do? Enable tap scrolling by default? Dec 14 19:56:45 javispedro, so there's a solution for that ? Dec 14 19:56:52 mooo javis Dec 14 19:57:15 javispedro, we can disable that call under Qt for example and it will work ? Dec 14 19:57:18 VDVsx: the solution is to ensure proper window flags Dec 14 19:57:27 hiyo RST Dec 14 19:58:00 new app icon! Dec 14 19:58:10 wazd: so, how about a new fbreader app icon? =) Dec 14 19:58:14 VDVsx, we need maemo.org shirts. Make it happen. :P Dec 14 19:58:18 RST38h: please enable tap to turn the page by default! Dec 14 19:58:21 would be great! Dec 14 19:58:38 konttori: there are differing opinions on this one Dec 14 19:58:43 * RST38h is kinda at loss Dec 14 19:58:47 javispedro, so seems that 99 % of the X linux apps aren't using proper flags, that's a bit funny Dec 14 19:59:06 VDVsx, hmm Dec 14 19:59:12 hm which flags are needed for virtual keyboard? Dec 14 19:59:31 RST38h, I would love to have the library redone in native widgets. *g* Dec 14 19:59:37 VDVsx: it wouldn't surprise me the least, considering the horrors I've recently seen wandering through th SDL windowing code... Dec 14 19:59:38 RST38h: there can't be. Mine is the only one that matters ... kidding. But seriously, what are the other opinions? Dec 14 20:00:15 RST38h, maybe Dec 14 20:00:26 RST38h, I really dislike tap turning, but as far as new users discovering scrolling methods. . . . Dec 14 20:00:37 konttori: tap scrolling tends to accidentally scroll pages when you open menus etc Dec 14 20:00:45 javispedro, a bit strange for me, but I'll try to convince the EFL guys to fix that a well, because seems that nokia will not change that Dec 14 20:00:57 actually they've a good point on that Dec 14 20:01:01 konttori: also it is kinda difficult to get working with NITs, you have to get parameters exactly right Dec 14 20:01:21 konttori: 150ms delay, no-thumb-only, 10-100 pressure does it for me though Dec 14 20:01:38 and also tap scrolling tends to override list selection which is bad Dec 14 20:01:42 wazd_n800, already have a maemo.org t-shirt ? Dec 14 20:01:54 RST38h, set the defaults properly, anyway. Dec 14 20:02:17 GAN: I am not even sure the above mumbo jumbo can be called proper :) Dec 14 20:02:41 VDVsx: sawfish is a wm that follows h-d's behaviour Dec 14 20:02:52 from some debian bugreports about "x apps that don't set the inputfocus hint" Dec 14 20:02:54 RST38h: interesting. Perhaps you can just diable the tap turn page while any setting window is visible and re-enable after Dec 14 20:03:07 VDVsx, no, that's a good candidate) Dec 14 20:03:12 konttori: oh, that is not the problem Dec 14 20:03:34 konttori: the problem for example is tap turning being triggered by out-of-full-screen taps, menu selections, etc Dec 14 20:03:44 wazd_n800, you said above "one more t-shirt" Dec 14 20:03:44 so if Debian considers apps not setting the InputFocus hint "faulty", why wouldn't Maemo ? ;) Dec 14 20:03:46 Quim really needs to send me my FiF shirt. Dec 14 20:03:57 He will send ou FiH Dec 14 20:04:02 hmm am I the only one having problems with extras-testing? Dec 14 20:04:06 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/l/lzo2/liblzo2-2_2.03-1maemo3_armel.deb Size mismatch Dec 14 20:04:09 W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG E40DC434616730BD maemo.org Extras repositories (Fremantle Extras) Dec 14 20:04:17 VDVsx, I have maemo penguin t-shirt Dec 14 20:04:26 GAN900, Quim really needs to send something to wazd_n800 Dec 14 20:04:32 at least some chocolates :P Dec 14 20:04:33 RST38h: ah, I see. Well, filter out when in non-fullscreen mode, the taps that have click location of the menu area? Dec 14 20:04:47 Does anybody know where maemo 5 stores contacts information? If yes, is it a regular vcf format and could I simply copy from kaddressbook? Dec 14 20:05:14 rdorsch, iirc it's evolution data server Dec 14 20:05:27 That was at least the case for 4 Dec 14 20:06:14 And seems to be for 5 too Dec 14 20:06:56 Which, at least on ubuntu, seems to store contacts in a Berkeley DB file Dec 14 20:07:57 inz: you in town? Dec 14 20:08:03 wazd, can't you use a proxy or summuch? Dec 14 20:08:26 timeless, if, by town, you mean Orivesi, then yes. =) Dec 14 20:08:47 GAN900, I've registered proper Helsinki address Dec 14 20:09:11 Hrm, RST38h, how much work would a 12-hour mode for the progressbar clock require? Dec 14 20:09:17 inz: i'm pretty sure there are only a few places in .FI that i'd consider 'towns', and in town is limited to the one i'm in :) Dec 14 20:09:36 Well, in other news, I got a vnc server working on my iphone. Dec 14 20:09:46 timeless, well, then I'm in a village, and the anwer would be no. Dec 14 20:09:56 :) Dec 14 20:10:18 ruskie: correct, I found evolution-data-server-addressbook Dec 14 20:11:44 RST38h, by the way the fullscreen button seems a bit buggy. Dec 14 20:12:00 was someone running conky allready on the n900? Dec 14 20:12:19 GAN: ? Dec 14 20:12:30 does anybody know, where evolution-data-server-addressbook stores its vcf files? Dec 14 20:12:34 ah seems so.. cool.. Dec 14 20:12:35 I've had it appear a couple times in windowed and it sticks around in the dashboard when you switch. Dec 14 20:12:52 rdorsch: in /dev/null Dec 14 20:13:01 RST38h, tapping the search button in the toolbar makes the fullscreen fullscreen button appear here. Dec 14 20:13:04 rdorsch: evolution-addressbook-export Dec 14 20:13:26 VDVsx: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/ Dec 14 20:13:28 Then switching to the dashboard with ctrl-backspace or camkeyd doesn't make it go away. Dec 14 20:13:31 GAN: A moment Dec 14 20:14:05 GAN: I do not see it appear when I cick search Dec 14 20:14:08 rdorsch: and theres a db in ~/.evolution/addressbook/... Dec 14 20:14:38 GAN: A moment Dec 14 20:15:09 hrw|gone, yeah, I miss read your sentence above and thought it was a game :) Dec 14 20:15:18 ;D Dec 14 20:15:22 GAN: Ok, I see the task switcher behaviour Dec 14 20:15:23 RST38h, I've also toggled fullscreen using a bound key. Dec 14 20:15:37 hrw|gone, I saw your post in the planet some time ago Dec 14 20:16:10 GAN: Using bound key here works fine Dec 14 20:16:14 The out-of-fullscreen button goes away Dec 14 20:16:37 http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4185834134/ Dec 14 20:16:58 Wonder how I got it in a inconsistent state. . . . Dec 14 20:17:33 RST38h, restarting FBReader fixes the search dialog. Dec 14 20:17:33 v2px: tap menu, select 'Font' and on a bottom you have two colours Dec 14 20:17:42 Not sure how I broke it. Dec 14 20:17:52 hrw|gone: already found it. thx Dec 14 20:18:06 GAN: This one I can repeat (with task switcher) Dec 14 20:18:19 GAN: Not much I can do about it, have to talk to the guy who made the widget Dec 14 20:18:19 RST38h, ah, it's camkeyd. Dec 14 20:18:49 RST38h, breaks when I switch with the camera key while the widget is showing. Dec 14 20:19:29 oh. I am not fixing this one for sure :) Dec 14 20:20:29 Fair enough. ;) Dec 14 20:21:57 Next one is probably xchat Dec 14 20:27:14 For? Dec 14 20:33:15 amiga modules hrw woot :) Dec 14 20:33:25 pupnik Dec 14 20:33:33 evening! Dec 14 20:34:07 pupnik hm x-fade has to promote libxmuu from sdk to somewhere Dec 14 20:34:17 so apt-get install qtnx will work Dec 14 20:34:34 but whole stuff is now extras-devel Dec 14 20:35:08 ok will test Dec 14 20:35:21 pupnik: ;D Dec 14 20:38:18 amiga modules hrw? Dec 14 20:39:31 timperi: any played with modplug Dec 14 20:39:49 but app is centered on Protracker ones only Dec 14 20:40:32 timeless_mbp, ping? Dec 14 20:40:43 pong Dec 14 20:41:12 timperi: but I use Phonon (so GStreamer) so in theory it can play anything. but option to load other files was killed already Dec 14 20:41:38 Is there a way to make the browsing history per-session/clear-on-quit? Dec 14 20:41:54 Since long histories tend to cause buginess and slowdowns. Dec 14 20:42:44 doubtful Dec 14 20:42:54 ie private browsing Dec 14 20:43:21 you could probably make a tiny app that ate the typed_urls file Dec 14 20:43:25 Or just limit the history? Dec 14 20:43:30 but that's just the thing that's used for the urlbar Dec 14 20:44:11 you should be able to ask gecko for a 1day history Dec 14 20:45:49 That'd work. Dec 14 20:46:36 this one woglinde ? /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/var/cache/apt/archives/libxmuu1_2%3a1.0.4-1_armel.deb Dec 14 20:46:55 hrw: i don't know what you're talking about, the phrase amiga modules just catched my curiosity :D phonon has something to do with qt right? are you doing an app to play amiga modules? Dec 14 20:46:59 pupnik jo Dec 14 20:47:03 timperi: yes Dec 14 20:47:18 hrw: nice :D Dec 14 20:47:23 timperi: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/11/30/i-wrote-module-player-in-qt/ Dec 14 20:54:36 video quality is really stunning. display color stays true from various angles. Dec 14 20:55:00 pupnik nx works? Dec 14 20:55:12 ehm testing sorryr\ Dec 14 20:57:39 I finally got my N900 and now the downloads section is down :P Dec 14 20:57:54 bad luck :( Dec 14 20:58:07 Milo-???? Dec 14 20:58:13 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/ecoach/ for example Dec 14 20:58:17 I get Server Error Dec 14 20:58:19 Error 500 Dec 14 20:58:22 is it just me or is the n900 call history lacking some key features? Dec 14 20:58:39 I can only see which contact called, not which number they called from Dec 14 20:58:44 Milo-: use extras Dec 14 20:58:44 and i can't see call durations Dec 14 20:58:49 wtf Dec 14 20:59:01 timeless_mbp huh where? Dec 14 20:59:22 wiretapped: its not only you Dec 14 21:00:04 and where is OTR?! Dec 14 21:00:12 the missing OTR is my #1 complaint so far Dec 14 21:00:15 which is pretty good, i guess Dec 14 21:00:30 wiretapped: that app just sucks Dec 14 21:00:30 overall I am liking the n900 very much :) Dec 14 21:00:30 otr? Dec 14 21:00:33 wiretapped OTR? Dec 14 21:00:47 http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/ Dec 14 21:00:58 used to be included in pidgin Dec 14 21:01:09 btw, accessing SMS was rather hard :o Dec 14 21:01:11 but was dropped in diablo for unknown reason Dec 14 21:01:21 the chinook otr worked with the diablo pidgin Dec 14 21:01:31 but the fremantle pidgin is newer Dec 14 21:01:39 * hrw -> sleep Dec 14 21:01:39 bye Dec 14 21:01:53 urgh, have to do some work, reboot time, bbiab Dec 14 21:02:15 * wiretapped doesn't log in to jabber without otr, too irritating Dec 14 21:02:35 since adium on osx and pidgin on ubuntu both support it, nearly everyone i talk to uses otr Dec 14 21:02:48 so i have no jabber on my n900 currently :( Dec 14 21:03:05 timeless_mbp where is this 'extras' section? Dec 14 21:03:18 ~maemo-extras Dec 14 21:03:23 ~extras Dec 14 21:03:24 rumour has it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Dec 14 21:03:40 _|Nix|_: why isn't OTR in your pidgin packages anymore? Dec 14 21:03:56 _|Nix|_: thanks for providing it for so long btw, i've been using your port of it since the 770 :) Dec 14 21:03:59 that does not tell me how to access extras Dec 14 21:05:33 it doesn't? Dec 14 21:05:38 hi felipec Dec 14 21:05:44 roughly you follow the instructions under "Using Extras" Dec 14 21:05:56 GAN: Ok, I have found a standard GNOME icon for the dictionary. It does the job of an app icon Dec 14 21:05:58 once you've enabled extras in application manager, you use Application Manager to install software Dec 14 21:06:57 timeless_mbp see, now that is the kind of information you should have mentioned in the first place Dec 14 21:07:05 mentioned there is a page somewhere that tells you how to use extras Dec 14 21:07:42 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 14 21:07:46 milo: i think your attitude is a little off Dec 14 21:07:49 * timeless_mbp isn't wearing a customer support hat Dec 14 21:07:52 woglinde: hi :) Dec 14 21:08:04 I had no idea about extras existing Dec 14 21:08:09 Hello, could someone explain what "Ignoring version from wrong domain: ..." means in the app manager log on the N900? Dec 14 21:08:24 mece: roughly ham pins packages by domain Dec 14 21:08:31 if you get a package from the 'nokia' domain Dec 14 21:08:37 then upgrades should come from the 'nokia' domain Dec 14 21:08:51 ah I see. Dec 14 21:08:52 sorry if my attitude is little off, but if my original complaint was that all the download pages are currently not working Dec 14 21:08:53 if you get packages from domain 'foo', then generally, updates should come from domain 'foo' Dec 14 21:09:00 but.. Dec 14 21:09:12 extras vs testing vs devel Dec 14 21:09:25 mece: the goal is to prevent a package from e.g. extras-devel from hosing the system by replacing a package from the core Dec 14 21:09:35 mece: repositories by name are not actually 'domains' Dec 14 21:09:45 ok good stuff actually thanks :) Dec 14 21:09:45 that detail is um... well, a detail Dec 14 21:09:47 * Jaffa unfoods. Dec 14 21:10:09 Jaffa: the right way or the wrong way? Dec 14 21:10:30 timeless_mbp: The "mmm, omelette & chips" way. Dec 14 21:11:06 * timeless_mbp fails to parse that train of thought Dec 14 21:11:09 * timeless_mbp moves along Dec 14 21:11:24 so... the first few days i had my n900 i was really disappointed with the battery life. Dec 14 21:11:27 timeless_mbp: As in, food complete; omelette & chips good; beer good Dec 14 21:11:30 turns out it was just skype Dec 14 21:11:50 after logging out of skype, suddenly it can last more than three hours Dec 14 21:11:59 ? Dec 14 21:12:13 I get 11-12 with skype and 2 xmpp accounts constantly on. Dec 14 21:12:19 ok Dec 14 21:12:20 i noticed it was transferring 100KB/sec over my wifi Dec 14 21:12:52 mece: is skype logged in over wifi or 3G? Dec 14 21:12:52 wiretapped, well that' doesn't sound right.. Dec 14 21:13:04 either, depending on where I am Dec 14 21:13:10 me too Dec 14 21:14:13 timeless_mbp, I have one little problem here. I'd like to use the devel version of witter, and the app manager doesn't feel like letting me do that, even after I uninstalled the -testing version. Dec 14 21:14:29 oh Dec 14 21:14:31 well um Dec 14 21:14:34 maybe i'm wrong? :) Dec 14 21:14:57 i'm not sure i know where that metadata lives Dec 14 21:15:03 but mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ would have it Dec 14 21:16:03 so what's the deal with the moderator topic? Why is there no feedback? Dec 14 21:17:20 mnah mnah mnah Dec 14 21:18:08 Myrtti, no no, it's Mahnah mahnah. Dec 14 21:18:31 ping Macer Dec 14 21:18:42 crashanddie: Which moderator topic? Dec 14 21:18:57 bloody Garage, I waited an age to try to upload the .dsc for fftw and it wouldn't go anywhere Dec 14 21:20:51 Jaffa: in community Dec 14 21:21:32 well handbrake is gimped. can't specify target resolution optimal to n900 Dec 14 21:21:36 snrk Dec 14 21:22:40 lardman|home: friggin fuck the world? Dec 14 21:22:56 pupnik hms Dec 14 21:24:04 hei guys someone said iphone 3gs is better than nokia n900 i was so mad , can u tell me something n900 is much better then the iphon Dec 14 21:24:30 jiajia, it has xterm by default!-) Dec 14 21:24:35 not needing to jailbreak it to do whatever I want is a good start Dec 14 21:24:48 can play flash from the web browser Dec 14 21:24:48 I don't like feeling like a criminal with a device that I purchased.. Dec 14 21:24:54 yeah that is right Dec 14 21:24:56 jiajia: you can have several app open at the same time ? Dec 14 21:24:58 crashanddie: tmo? Dec 14 21:25:21 indeed, multitasking is one big shortcomming of the iphone Dec 14 21:25:41 melmoth: i will show him now that kick his iphone ass haha Dec 14 21:25:51 <-- long time palm os user, I don't need no stinking multitasking Dec 14 21:27:01 Jaffa: aye Dec 14 21:27:04 tank-man: you don't, until you can Dec 14 21:27:09 and then you realise just how annoying it was before Dec 14 21:27:41 you dont need it, you can have one pam to listen to music, one palm to send email, one palm to play chess and so on :) Dec 14 21:27:46 crashanddie: indeed Dec 14 21:27:56 n900's camera blows the iphones out of the water Dec 14 21:28:05 crashanddie: but especially when I have other things to do Dec 14 21:28:11 * Myrtti smells a musky, foresty smell Dec 14 21:28:27 crashanddie: I'm minimising myself to one newposts check of tmo per day. Started again yesterday Dec 14 21:28:27 and you dont have the man telling you want you can install on your device Dec 14 21:28:28 can't find nx server for 64 bit debian woglinde Dec 14 21:29:01 pupnik use ppa/freenx Dec 14 21:29:02 mom Dec 14 21:29:34 pupnik -> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/freenx-team/ppa/ubuntu VERSION main Dec 14 21:29:36 args Dec 14 21:29:43 pupnik -> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/freenx-team/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main Dec 14 21:30:01 hi Dec 14 21:30:02 apt-get install freenx-server Dec 14 21:30:15 pupnik -> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX Dec 14 21:30:16 ty! Dec 14 21:30:53 Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=421858&postcount=72 Dec 14 21:30:57 pupnik if the offical of the a testproject decides its worth Dec 14 21:31:18 I will be envolved in a project with most nx users since ever Dec 14 21:31:26 will be 5k potential users Dec 14 21:31:52 very cool. lots of commercial possibilities. Dec 14 21:32:24 I am looking for some help with ESBox / CDT / Autotools: The symbol parser does not recognize my include paths I added using PKG_CHECK_MODULES and INCLUDES=$(MOD_CFLAGS). Dec 14 21:32:41 crashanddie: Ah, didn't it take Quim ages - Reggie's very handsoff Dec 14 21:32:48 pupnik I hacked qtnx and freenx and libpam-ldap so its making single sign on for windows Dec 14 21:32:59 VDVsx, can you tell me your e-mail please? Dec 14 21:33:10 Jaffa: but why? It's not like he's got heaps of work or anything Dec 14 21:33:56 gilead aeh? Dec 14 21:34:13 gilead do you have the source somewhere available and the error message too? Dec 14 21:34:53 woglinde: In configure.ac I use PKG_CHECK_MODULES(MOD, [x11 xtst dbus-1]) Dec 14 21:35:20 woglinde: In Makefile.am I use INCLUDES = $(MOD_CFLAGS) Dec 14 21:35:25 hmm, /me sees loads of stuff in the Fremantle builder queue Dec 14 21:36:02 VDVsx: have finally managed to push fftw Dec 14 21:36:11 gilead and whats in Makefile? Dec 14 21:36:22 This compiles fine but Texteditor does not find #include on symbol, parsing. ("Unresolved inclusion") So I cannot follow symbols using F3 Dec 14 21:36:25 gilead I am using Dec 14 21:36:28 woglinde: Makefile is fine. Dec 14 21:36:42 yay Dec 14 21:36:47 the phone crashed for the first time :D Dec 14 21:37:08 AC_SUBST([X11_LIBS]) AC_SUBST([X11_CFLAGS]) Dec 14 21:37:14 and in Makefile.am Dec 14 21:37:20 woglinde: It defines MOD_CFLAGS as MOD_CFLAGS = -I/usr/include/dbus-1.0 -I/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/include Dec 14 21:37:20 no it didn't Dec 14 21:38:00 woglinde: yeah, I am also using those AC_SUBST statements to have MOD_CFLAGS and MOD_LIBS available in my Makefile.am Dec 14 21:38:18 AM_CPPFLAGS = @X11_CFLAGS@ Dec 14 21:38:24 * lardman|home grumbles and tries to write a 2 page abstract Dec 14 21:38:36 and foo_la_LIBADD = @X11_LIBS@ Dec 14 21:38:46 for libs Dec 14 21:39:24 Ok, I just tried AM_CPPFLAGS = @MOD_CFLAGS@ but this doesn't help. Include file is still unresolved. Dec 14 21:39:45 gilead binpaste the error Dec 14 21:39:53 maybe you are missing some more includes Dec 14 21:40:32 wolinde: I don't think so because make works fine. It is just the indexer which does not recognize the include paths. Dec 14 21:40:53 ????? Dec 14 21:41:21 ~pastebin Dec 14 21:41:22 [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste Dec 14 21:41:45 wogline: What shall I pastebin? Complete project sources? Dec 14 21:41:54 the error Dec 14 21:42:02 what the shit is this http://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/nokia-messaging-for-social-networks Dec 14 21:42:08 why isnt it in maemo Dec 14 21:43:12 woglinde: There is no error. Only that yellow question mark in the text editor and a hover help that says "Unresolved inclusion: dbus/dbus.h" Dec 14 21:43:55 woglinde: No error message on any console or problems view. At least nothing that I could find... Dec 14 21:44:03 aeh Dec 14 21:44:07 stupid editr Dec 14 21:44:16 ignore it Dec 14 21:44:23 when is the maemo.org downloads stuff going to start working again? Dec 14 21:44:31 guest? Dec 14 21:44:36 apt-get update works Dec 14 21:44:40 and install too Dec 14 21:44:52 woglinde: Hm, of course I could. But it is my first time working with DBus, so it would be a help to navigate to include files and declarations from it... Dec 14 21:45:11 no, the website Dec 14 21:45:15 Guest72893: What sort of downloads are you thinking of? Dec 14 21:45:30 maemo.org/downloads Dec 14 21:45:34 as always, nokia's multimedia player is a failure, is there a better one? Dec 14 21:45:34 http://maemo.org works here Dec 14 21:45:46 when I click on any item I get a 500 Dec 14 21:45:46 Works for me. Dec 14 21:46:01 Guest72893 paste the url Dec 14 21:46:08 all: anyone knows how I can get internet connections options under settings-->connectivity menu? Dec 14 21:46:28 so washing dishes now Dec 14 21:46:30 till later Dec 14 21:47:12 for example: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/adblock-plus-1.0/ Dec 14 21:47:26 " Dec 14 21:47:26 Server Error Dec 14 21:47:26 Failed to parse style element 'product_view', content was loaded from '64/product_view', see above for PHP errors." Dec 14 21:47:35 on every single one :'-( Dec 14 21:47:40 Hmm Dec 14 21:47:48 Guest72893 I complained about the same thing and timeless recommended that you should use 'extras' Dec 14 21:47:49 That is in fact an error. Dec 14 21:48:00 But that should not happen. Dec 14 21:48:13 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Dec 14 21:48:14 I will file a bug and contact those who maintain that code. Dec 14 21:48:17 you probably should read that first Dec 14 21:48:18 Milo-, Downloads IS Extras. Dec 14 21:48:31 heh Dec 14 21:48:35 It's just a web frontend for the repository. Dec 14 21:48:49 well, the web frontend is broken Dec 14 21:48:59 so use your phone's application catalog :) Dec 14 21:49:00 Guest72893, just browse with the Application Manager. Dec 14 21:49:26 anyways, is there a multimedia player that actually works? Dec 14 21:49:45 Define "works" Dec 14 21:49:56 the built-in one "works" fine here. Dec 14 21:49:57 Yeah, the thing is with those links, they are really designed to be used in when you are on your device Dec 14 21:50:10 Guest72893: Are you using a Maemo device to view those pages? Dec 14 21:50:24 jeremiah, yes, my n900 and both my pcs get the same error Dec 14 21:50:25 GAN900 I can't figure out how to create playlists with it Dec 14 21:50:36 Guest72893: Yeah, that shouldn't happen. Dec 14 21:50:46 and how to browse files according to a folder, rather than just all of them in a bunch Dec 14 21:50:52 I will file a bug and have an email almost ready to go. Dec 14 21:51:14 GAN900, ahh, so you need to enable extras in order to see the goodies? :-D Dec 14 21:51:31 23:48:13 Milo- >> http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Dec 14 21:51:58 Milo-, tap'n'hold. Dec 14 21:51:58 thanks for your help jeremiah and GAN900 and Milo- Dec 14 21:52:00 and veeryone else ;) Dec 14 21:52:06 *everyone Dec 14 21:52:20 Sure thing - sorry things are working, hopefully they will be shortly. Dec 14 21:52:21 Milo-, they're called ID3 tags. Dec 14 21:52:31 VDVsx, PS3 profile is in your inbox) Dec 14 21:52:37 the link to maemo.org was the first thing I saw but the app manager is really nice (once you enable extras) Dec 14 21:52:46 GAN900 ah, thank you :D Dec 14 21:53:45 As usual, Nokia's out-of-box arrangement inconveniences users in favor of appeasing lawyers and making Ovi managers happy. Dec 14 21:54:17 don't forget shareholders Dec 14 21:54:28 i hope nokias strategy doesnt bank too much on ovi.... Dec 14 21:54:32 :P Dec 14 21:55:23 I was just re-flashing my device, and all seems to have gone well. However, I forgot to hold the "u"-key before plugging in the usb cable into my N900 - could that have broken something that I can't see? Dec 14 21:55:36 Is the device smoking? Dec 14 21:55:37 eitreach, no. Dec 14 21:55:50 jebba900: Nokia's strategy is going to rely nearly entirely on Ovi Dec 14 21:55:58 The u key just locks the device in flashing mode so it waits for the flasher. Dec 14 21:56:14 Rather than waiting in flashing mode for a second or two. Dec 14 21:56:55 Alright. Thank you. :) Dec 14 21:57:00 Just wanted to make sure. Dec 14 21:57:24 first thing I did was install ogg support :-D Dec 14 21:58:02 Guest72893, /nick Dec 14 21:58:59 ahh so the n900 doesnt come with a podcasting client Dec 14 21:59:06 which explains why gpodder is so popular Dec 14 22:03:24 richard_12345, n900 comes with weather applet Dec 14 22:04:09 richard_12345, which explains that omweather is so popular :) Dec 14 22:04:21 wazd_n800, humm, which email did you used, didn't received anything so far o_O Dec 14 22:05:20 vdv100@gmail.com Dec 14 22:05:28 wazd, nah, it comes with a link to install a weather applet. Dec 14 22:06:07 wazd_n800, ok, should be stuck somewhere, lol Dec 14 22:06:38 VDVsx, ohsht Dec 14 22:06:42 what is the .bashrc equivalent for ash? Dec 14 22:06:47 VDVsx, gmai :D Dec 14 22:07:57 VDVsx, there you go Dec 14 22:08:33 re Dec 14 22:08:33 Hello! How do u call the position of the phone if the powerbutton is on the right and the USB port shows up to the sky? upright? Dec 14 22:08:54 maxxle: portrait? Dec 14 22:09:09 mtnbkr: so it's portrait and landscape? Dec 14 22:09:22 maxxle: that'd be my guess Dec 14 22:09:25 :) Dec 14 22:09:59 ok - so i must reword my bugreport :) Dec 14 22:10:00 thx Dec 14 22:10:20 Anyone else with N900 experiencing that the on-screen K/B does not reliably appear when you touch in a text area of an app like chat? Dec 14 22:12:15 Hello Dec 14 22:12:16 mtnbkr, sometimes. Dec 14 22:12:28 mtnbkr, be sure to double-tab. Dec 14 22:12:31 It seems to get stuck every once and a while. Dec 14 22:12:33 tap, even. Dec 14 22:12:43 the maemo db is brokne so i need i little help to instal deb files Dec 14 22:12:54 woglinde: well nx setup per default seems to be happy, but server is dying when trying to start a session. did you pick kde, cde? Dec 14 22:13:26 user stuff is fine ssh -i client.id_dsa.key nx@localhost Dec 14 22:13:46 NX> 105 stdout> NX> 1009 Session status: starting Dec 14 22:14:28 i tried to install the vncviewer with dpkg -i but i doesnot work anyone can help me? i also try to get superpriviliga access by typing sudo gainroot Dec 14 22:15:09 Jiri-: Did you try installing with apt-get? Dec 14 22:15:20 Jiri-: That is the easiest way to install stuff Dec 14 22:15:35 eitreach: yeah, when it does not work, I usualy just give up (after double-tapping, tripple-tapping, pressing and holdoing then dowuble- and triple tapping again) then slide the real k/b Dec 14 22:15:36 jeremiah no i didnot Dec 14 22:15:38 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Dec 14 22:16:13 Jiri-: Well, there are basically three ways to install software: the command line, application manager, and downloading Dec 14 22:16:33 The command line is when you open a terminal and use 'apt-get' Dec 14 22:16:40 ok Dec 14 22:16:43 what teh fuck Dec 14 22:16:45 The application manager is the graphical tool you can use Dec 14 22:16:52 no nokia messenger for n900 D: Dec 14 22:16:59 the one with social network chat Dec 14 22:17:24 * AbstractW needs a place that'll sell an N900 for not ass-gouge prices :P Dec 14 22:17:25 Hey.... What do u think for a n900 as improvement: Unlocked phone; Portrait-mode; Press hw-power-button. => Menu should be rotated 90° left Dec 14 22:17:59 maxxle: Maybe put it on brainstorm? Dec 14 22:18:16 jeremiah and i can install the gui aplication manager with maemo extras? Dec 14 22:18:20 jeremiah: Do u have an URL for me where to put it? Dec 14 22:18:30 Jiri-: It is already installed for you Dec 14 22:18:37 Jiri-: Which device are you using? Dec 14 22:18:41 n900 Dec 14 22:18:55 Jiri-: Okay, then you go to the application that has the wrench Dec 14 22:19:26 Jiri-: Sorry, that is the settings app! Dec 14 22:19:41 so what i should do? Dec 14 22:19:55 You should click on that little clipboard app, that will open up the app manager Dec 14 22:20:14 ok Dec 14 22:20:16 So start by clicking the boxes in the upper left of the screen Dec 14 22:20:30 yeah Dec 14 22:20:32 That should bring you to a screen with lots of apps Dec 14 22:20:39 yes Dec 14 22:20:43 Click on the one in the bottom right hand corner Dec 14 22:20:48 (more) Dec 14 22:20:50 ok Dec 14 22:21:09 Then on the left side you should see an app called the App. Manager Dec 14 22:21:13 Click on that Dec 14 22:21:17 yeah Dec 14 22:21:34 That is the Application Manager which you can use to install software Dec 14 22:21:41 deb files as well? Dec 14 22:21:48 VDVsx, got it? Dec 14 22:21:55 * lardman|home grumbles that he was hoping to be in bed by 10 Dec 14 22:22:04 Jiri-: All the applications there are packaged as debs Dec 14 22:22:10 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Dec 14 22:22:14 being connected at all times shortens the batterylife, is there option somewhere which will autokill the connection when there is no need? Dec 14 22:22:17 ^ That is a linkn that will help you. Dec 14 22:23:18 yeah but the vncviewer is not in the list Dec 14 22:23:23 wazd_n800, yes, thanks Dec 14 22:23:36 Jiri-: Did you read that wiki page? Dec 14 22:23:47 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Dec 14 22:23:55 no i didn't Dec 14 22:24:12 i try if i don't get i ask again Dec 14 22:24:17 That will tell you how to enable the extras repos where lots of good software lives Dec 14 22:24:24 Yup Dec 14 22:24:51 yes now i got it Dec 14 22:25:25 thanks a million Dec 14 22:25:35 Excellent Dec 14 22:25:43 these apps should be safe to use? Dec 14 22:25:45 wazd_n800, one of those awesome 'measures' files is appreciated :P Dec 14 22:25:55 Jiri-: Yeah - those apps are usually pretty good. Dec 14 22:26:05 ok Dec 14 22:26:11 Of course, they are written by the community, so they are not like commercial apps. Dec 14 22:26:24 Often they are better. Dec 14 22:26:32 But there are no guarantees Dec 14 22:26:33 wazd_n800, only for the buttons, the dpad I already have here Dec 14 22:26:53 i understand Dec 14 22:28:15 VDVsx, sure Dec 14 22:28:46 mhm, does anybody know what kind of sensor is below the front-camera in the N900? I believe the light sensor is above the camera. Dec 14 22:29:05 nomis: That is a good question - I was wondering that too. Dec 14 22:29:20 nomis, proximity Dec 14 22:29:32 GAN the MAN Dec 14 22:29:45 now I Am Using My N900 To Irc Here How Cool Is That? Thanks Again Jeremiah Dec 14 22:29:57 Jiri-: My pleasure! :) Dec 14 22:30:12 a 500$ irc client :) Dec 14 22:30:13 There are 5 things on that side: ambient light, camera, proximity, speaker, LED. Dec 14 22:30:57 GAN900: ah, the thing that is supposed to prevent hanging up with your cheek? Dec 14 22:31:19 nomis: yep Dec 14 22:31:21 scummer... more like a $500 general purpose computer that eats 1.5 watts max and fits in your pocket :) Dec 14 22:31:26 Is that what it is? Dec 14 22:31:28 Hmm. Dec 14 22:31:32 simula_away: indeed Dec 14 22:31:32 Doesn't work so well. Dec 14 22:31:50 simula: oh.. and a SNES player for the bathroom :) Dec 14 22:31:59 true :) Dec 14 22:32:05 flash support for the porn clips... Dec 14 22:32:08 whoops i didnt say that Dec 14 22:32:10 * nomis was wondering about that and suspected some clever acceleration-sensor-usage :) Dec 14 22:32:10 :-P Dec 14 22:32:12 :) Dec 14 22:32:19 Don't even mention snes! Dec 14 22:32:22 is there an nes emulator in the repos? Dec 14 22:32:27 nope Dec 14 22:32:30 NO! Dec 14 22:32:34 darn! Dec 14 22:32:35 but you can find dev separately Dec 14 22:32:37 deb* Dec 14 22:32:41 :) Dec 14 22:32:56 simula: but you can find the deb Dec 14 22:33:04 hmmm ok Dec 14 22:33:04 simula_: There is some question as to whether emulators are 'legal' Dec 14 22:33:10 i own the cartridge Dec 14 22:33:15 legend of zelda FTW! Dec 14 22:33:25 hi guys Dec 14 22:33:31 any known gps navigation software Dec 14 22:33:34 for N900 yet? Dec 14 22:33:37 i'm sure the emulators are legal.. it's the images of the games that appearently are not.. Dec 14 22:33:45 * dockane has hands on since 2 hours and was wondering why the screen was built that badly that it always moved on touch until vibration on touch was disabled Dec 14 22:33:45 emulators are 100% legal. period. Dec 14 22:33:47 Scummer jo mostly Dec 14 22:33:52 Sir_Lancelot: it has the builtin allready? Dec 14 22:34:03 yes Dec 14 22:34:07 Well, maybe they are and maybe they aren't - but no one here will be sued. Dec 14 22:34:09 the hardware is there Dec 14 22:34:13 just need osftware Dec 14 22:34:24 Sir_Lancelot try navit Dec 14 22:34:29 they. are. legal. without maybe) Dec 14 22:34:31 hum? Dec 14 22:34:39 it has the maps pre installed, but tho you may need more like car navi i guess? Dec 14 22:34:49 wazd_n800: Tell that to Nintendo when they sue Nokia. Dec 14 22:35:03 I'm askingn things like tomtom, navigon, igo, etc Dec 14 22:35:11 yeh so more like car navi then Dec 14 22:35:11 anyone ever played supertux on n900? Dec 14 22:35:18 jeremiah, they are not sueing nokia for emulators obviously Dec 14 22:35:33 wazd_n800: They certainly made some suing-like noises. Dec 14 22:35:41 why sueing nokia for third-party software? Dec 14 22:35:47 Sir_Lancelot: You won't find stuff like that on the N900 Dec 14 22:35:51 it's prbably all FUD Dec 14 22:36:03 Does anyone know if the thing that prevents fm transmitter from starting while headphones plugged a hardware or software thing? Dec 14 22:36:05 TomTom is a competitor to Naviteq which Nokia purchased. Dec 14 22:36:25 mece: I think it is hardware since teh headphones are the antenae Dec 14 22:36:30 they sueing nokia cause they were stupid enough to advertise n900 with illegal rom Dec 14 22:36:33 on the other hand.. you can sue anyone for anything.. if it holds up in court is a matter of money for a good lawyer Dec 14 22:36:51 Exactly Dec 14 22:37:04 You cannot even have an appearance of violating copyright Dec 14 22:37:07 rom, not emulator Dec 14 22:37:45 rom is an illegal copy of copyrighted material :) Dec 14 22:38:13 no Dec 14 22:38:14 someone has to realease navigation software for this device... Dec 14 22:38:16 :( Dec 14 22:38:17 even if you own the ROM and rightfully paid for it Dec 14 22:38:35 yes Dec 14 22:38:39 jeremiah, yeah, but I'd really like an antenna for the transmitter... Mobile pirate radio ftw! Dec 14 22:38:39 wazd_n800: There are homebrew roms. Dec 14 22:38:47 Sir_Lancelot: There already is an excellent app on the device by default Dec 14 22:38:47 *cough* Dec 14 22:38:51 that's what pisses me off about the copyight shit Dec 14 22:39:02 guys, take it outside Dec 14 22:39:07 heh Dec 14 22:39:07 we've heard the discussion way too many times Dec 14 22:39:07 Jaffa: well, I mean more popular case) Dec 14 22:39:08 Scummer: People getting the option of being recognised for their work and charging people for it? Dec 14 22:39:08 mece: heh Dec 14 22:39:09 which oine jeremiah? Dec 14 22:39:15 *one Dec 14 22:39:41 Scummer, mece, wazd_n800: #copyright-trolls, thanks Dec 14 22:39:46 jaffa: no.. that if you purchase the work, it should be yours at that point Dec 14 22:39:55 ok.. i'll shut up now Dec 14 22:40:02 Sir_Lancelot: Did you click on the 'Maps' application? Dec 14 22:40:02 so I really don't understand why all emulators are still MIA Dec 14 22:40:16 no Dec 14 22:40:21 which Maps aplication? Dec 14 22:40:22 wazd_n800: Ask one of the people involved in it; ask the council Dec 14 22:40:23 crashanddie, lets talk about SW patents instead :D Dec 14 22:40:23 :S Dec 14 22:40:24 anybody try connecting telepathy-idle to bitlbee? Dec 14 22:40:25 Sir_Lancelot: Try that Dec 14 22:40:29 * wiretapped is going to try this later today Dec 14 22:40:32 * VDVsx hides Dec 14 22:40:33 Sir_Lancelot: I think you will find it pretty good Dec 14 22:40:34 VDV: haha Dec 14 22:40:37 VDVsx: Yay! I've got 2. Or is it 3? I forget. Dec 14 22:40:45 Scummer, you've purchased right to play game Dec 14 22:40:50 Sir_Lancelot: It is a lot like a TomTom app or a dedicated GPS device Dec 14 22:40:57 but, is it one of those with preinstalled maps, or is it like google mapos which is always downloading the map Dec 14 22:40:58 ? Dec 14 22:41:04 wazd: and what if my cartridge dies? i get a new one ? Dec 14 22:41:04 VDVsx: heh Dec 14 22:41:06 Scummer, not copying it, burning or ripping Dec 14 22:41:15 Sir_Lancelot: A combination really. Dec 14 22:41:16 Scummer, yeah Dec 14 22:41:21 gawd.. i said i'm not saying anything any more Dec 14 22:41:26 Sir_Lancelot: But you'll find a lot of stuff predownloaded. Dec 14 22:41:33 Sir_Lancelot: You can pre-download, but it will download as you go (vector-based) Dec 14 22:41:37 wazd: in your dreams.. you're f'd.. you gotta buy a new one Dec 14 22:41:40 Scummer, just like if your TV dies) Dec 14 22:41:40 Sir_Lancelot: This is a pretty complete application Dec 14 22:41:52 Sir_Lancelot: With lots of detailed maps and funtionality Dec 14 22:41:56 I don't have web on the phone right now Dec 14 22:41:58 Scummer & wazd_n800: stfu Dec 14 22:42:01 * Jaffa checks Google Patents. Ah, he's got 2 patent s. Dec 14 22:42:01 3G is bloakced... Dec 14 22:42:04 blocked Dec 14 22:42:11 Sir_Lancelot: Which device are we talking about? Dec 14 22:42:16 n900 Dec 14 22:42:16 crashanddie, silence Dec 14 22:42:24 Sir_Lancelot: It is really a mobile computer Dec 14 22:42:31 And it comes with a web browser Dec 14 22:42:40 And it comes with the Maps application Dec 14 22:42:46 So you don't have to use a web browser Dec 14 22:42:50 to use the Maps app Dec 14 22:42:50 * VDVsx recommends to all N900 users: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/n900fly/0.1.0/ Dec 14 22:42:52 :D Dec 14 22:43:01 VDVsx: What is it? Dec 14 22:43:14 jeremiah, very good app Dec 14 22:43:22 jeremiah, 1 sec Dec 14 22:43:23 * crashanddie points out to VDVsx that he already explained everything there was to know about software patents Dec 14 22:43:32 makes the n900 fly when you throw it out the window ? Dec 14 22:43:42 no need for that Dec 14 22:43:42 maps aplication is kinda google maps Dec 14 22:43:43 crashanddie: Take it inside Dec 14 22:43:45 it's already pretty aerodynamic Dec 14 22:43:46 :( Dec 14 22:43:48 :) Dec 14 22:43:58 especially if you leave the keyboard open Dec 14 22:43:58 Sir_Lancelot: Are you on crack? Dec 14 22:44:03 It is nothing like Google Maps Dec 14 22:44:08 jeremiah, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36312 Dec 14 22:44:35 wow Dec 14 22:44:37 kinda cool Dec 14 22:44:38 it is, in the manner that it downloads the map along the path... Dec 14 22:44:48 Sir_Lancelot: No - it doesn't do that Dec 14 22:44:58 crashanddie, no need to shut people up in that manner Dec 14 22:45:02 no? Dec 14 22:45:05 I thought it did Dec 14 22:45:19 than, what is missing to have a turn-by-turn navigation Dec 14 22:45:20 It is just like a dedicated GPS device Dec 14 22:45:20 wazd_n800: yes, there is a need to do that, because we've seen the same conversation happen 20 million times, and the outcome is always the same Dec 14 22:45:21 haha.. hangtime.. lol Dec 14 22:45:28 nokia maps, used to ask for a fee Dec 14 22:46:21 * AakashPatel wants facebook chat Dec 14 22:46:22 wazd_n800: some people who have no knowledge and are only focused on how much they can squeeze out of other people say that copyright is bad and use the age old "I'm copying because I'm afraid my CD will break" defence when really they should learn not be such tightasses and handle their CDs a bit better Dec 14 22:46:28 dockane, I find it bizarre that so many people think that's broken. Dec 14 22:46:36 crashanddie, no there isn't. If you're too nervous - you can release brain pressure thru a small crack in a skull made by hammer Dec 14 22:46:48 1.2m Dec 14 22:46:56 Both of you STFU. Dec 14 22:47:00 crashanddie, I heard that helps Dec 14 22:48:15 what the fuck? I wasn't even talking to you Dec 14 22:48:34 should mediaplayer handle mmc indexing when its full of media like mp3s? Dec 14 22:49:00 wazd, be less pissy. Dec 14 22:49:19 * w00t turns down the channel temperature from 'flame' to 'warm' Dec 14 22:49:20 GAN900, hihihi Dec 14 22:50:05 Snorting vodka is bad for your health kids -- don't do drugs Dec 14 22:50:11 someone gimme facebook chat D: Dec 14 22:50:16 lol Dec 14 22:50:23 GAN900, It's so ironic that you tell me that Dec 14 22:50:27 facepalm book Dec 14 22:50:30 snorting wasabi is even worse Dec 14 22:50:40 "hockeypulver" ftw Dec 14 22:50:43 brainmelt, lol Dec 14 22:51:01 "Brain fondue with a side order of snot please Dec 14 22:51:01 Hm can you use that pidgin plugin? Dec 14 22:51:04 if you cross compile it? Dec 14 22:51:25 XMPP-server with spectrum? Dec 14 22:52:07 GAN900: i have to admit, that the n900 for me is a step as big as from horse powerde wagon to warp engine Dec 14 22:52:36 from what dockane? an 810? Dec 14 22:52:39 loved the n800.. so n900 was a must-have Dec 14 22:53:05 last phone was a nokia 1100 Dec 14 22:54:23 wait waht does this fly app do? It measures how long you throw the phone or..? Dec 14 22:54:31 What the link to browse extras-devel? Dec 14 22:54:33 or extras-testing Dec 14 22:54:35 you will wish your horse powered wagon back after your first core breach Dec 14 22:55:31 mikhas: breaking things is nothing new to me. i am used to it :) Dec 14 22:55:39 cool Dec 14 22:56:20 * lardman|home looks back 15 hours and remembers saying that he would go to bed in 14 hours and not have anything to drink Dec 14 22:56:34 ~curse deadlines Dec 14 22:56:35 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, deadlines ! Dec 14 22:56:41 lardman|home: sounds familiar to me Dec 14 22:56:46 lardman hehe Dec 14 22:56:55 I have time till thursday Dec 14 22:57:35 my own fault, thought I needed to prepare an abstract, turns out it's supposed to be a 2 page "abstract" containing the results and conclusions :( Dec 14 22:57:52 AakashPatel, this: http://maemo.org/packages/ or this: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/ ? Dec 14 22:58:03 ah yeah the firs tone Dec 14 22:58:09 lardman|home: I hate those. Dec 14 22:58:12 Both reading and writing them. Dec 14 22:58:30 pretty optimistic 6 months before the conf imho Dec 14 22:58:35 but there you go Dec 14 22:58:38 http://maemo.org/packages/view/pidgin-facebookchat/ Dec 14 22:58:39 zomg Dec 14 23:01:06 lardman, fail. Dec 14 23:02:37 yeah Dec 14 23:04:04 has anyone ever played supertux on an actual n900? Dec 14 23:04:18 nope, my mom forbids it Dec 14 23:04:20 :( Dec 14 23:04:23 hihi Dec 14 23:04:24 I can't navigate in the world-map :( Dec 14 23:05:22 hmm lets see if this pidgin-facebookchat shiz craps it pants Dec 14 23:06:09 oh hm Dec 14 23:06:19 would be graet to konw where it shows up Dec 14 23:06:27 oh heh Dec 14 23:06:28 pidgin Dec 14 23:07:20 shame the facebook plugin doesn't do the same as the Android one and show a list of updates Dec 14 23:07:45 did you try it? Dec 14 23:08:23 yeah both Dec 14 23:08:45 son of a bitch Dec 14 23:08:52 "Could not retrieve buddy list" Dec 14 23:09:53 Chat service is curretnly unavail Dec 14 23:09:56 yeah its broked Dec 14 23:10:24 anybody here uses Pidgin or telepathy-haze? Dec 14 23:10:28 I konw its trying to connect, cuz facebook website logged me out Dec 14 23:10:37 felipe`: i just installed pidgin :/ Dec 14 23:10:52 but lucky me, pidgin-facebookchat isnt working Dec 14 23:11:23 felipec, haze. Dec 14 23:11:23 AakashPatel: on N900? Dec 14 23:11:28 Yeah Dec 14 23:12:04 lardman|home: do you still have it on your phone? Dec 14 23:12:22 Where is it? I can't find it on the maemo.org site Dec 14 23:12:33 felipec: you have to enabled extras-devel Dec 14 23:12:33 I have both N900 and HTC HD2 (the new one, with 1GHz cpu and 4.3" capacitive screen) and I have to seel one of them... Dec 14 23:12:34 also, any idea how is it maintained? Dec 14 23:12:38 just can't decide which... Dec 14 23:12:39 :S Dec 14 23:12:44 Sir_Lancelot: N900 :P Dec 14 23:12:46 duh Dec 14 23:12:51 erm wait Dec 14 23:12:54 Dont sell that one Dec 14 23:12:55 lol Dec 14 23:12:57 read it wrong Dec 14 23:13:10 why? please convince me Dec 14 23:13:18 no need Dec 14 23:13:19 you decide it yourself Dec 14 23:13:47 your toyz, your decision or you come here later whining about bad choises made :P Dec 14 23:13:53 hmm seriously, why does the n900 automatically connect to internet? Dec 14 23:13:54 I'm not sure about the future of maemo Dec 14 23:13:59 huh Dec 14 23:14:02 even if there is no need for connecting? Dec 14 23:14:03 that's what's bringing my suspicious Dec 14 23:14:06 looks like a lot has changed since 1.60 and 1.64 Dec 14 23:14:21 GAN900: where did you get it? Dec 14 23:14:39 Milo-: no widgets on? Dec 14 23:14:43 (and btw: I'm not the whining kind of guy ) Dec 14 23:14:49 ifreq the default ones Dec 14 23:14:56 they shouldn't automatically connect Dec 14 23:15:04 Milo-: yeh but like facebook... something under accounts etc Dec 14 23:15:18 Milo-: so your network connection is set to "ask first" right? Dec 14 23:16:25 ifreq don't use facebook or any IM stuff Dec 14 23:16:59 Okay Dec 14 23:17:03 and how abt my last question milo? Dec 14 23:17:08 1.60 of facbook pidgin plugin is broked :) Dec 14 23:17:12 trying to find that specific setting Dec 14 23:17:15 fyi Dec 14 23:17:31 Milo-: settings -> internet connections Dec 14 23:17:54 I'm blind.. Dec 14 23:18:04 Already set it to 'ask always' once. Dec 14 23:18:12 Wonder why it changed back to "any available" Dec 14 23:19:09 GAN900: btw, wardriving with the mbp is bliss :P Dec 14 23:19:35 ~curse negative signals Dec 14 23:19:36 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, negative signals ! Dec 14 23:19:46 ~curse ~curse Dec 14 23:19:47 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, ~curse ! Dec 14 23:20:14 What year is infobot from? 1862? Dec 14 23:20:19 lolol Dec 14 23:20:20 Who starts a curse with "May" ? Dec 14 23:20:27 * timeless_mbp ponders Dec 14 23:20:32 He's being polite Dec 14 23:20:33 crashanddie: that's earlier Dec 14 23:20:41 it's an ancient middle eastern curse Dec 14 23:20:42 hrw|gone: Did try a QMenuBar with toplevel QActions, but still get them as a menu that is not like what the top menu tends to be... Any idea what I might be doing wrong still? Dec 14 23:20:55 circa arabian nights Dec 14 23:21:02 It's a request to the tentacled one, rather than a command Dec 14 23:21:15 at least he doesn't finish the curse with "already" Dec 14 23:21:16 apt-get autoremove --PURGE pidgin-facebookchat Dec 14 23:21:18 o.O Dec 14 23:21:19 fwiw, the nokia flagship store now spells the name of our product correctly Dec 14 23:21:20 wrong window Dec 14 23:21:28 fnordianslip: :) Dec 14 23:23:04 Lynoure, screenshot maybe? Dec 14 23:23:40 I use QMenuBar + QActions, and it shows up nearly like a pure hildon/gtk menu, but then again I use 4.6 =/ Dec 14 23:24:27 mikhas: 4.5 here still. Dec 14 23:24:42 ok, then I probably cant help, sorry Dec 14 23:25:36 mikhas: thanks anyway, I'll worry about it a bit later, then. Want to give my other question a shot, too? Dec 14 23:26:20 I'm not getting a beep out of QApplication::beep() , not on Linux desktop, nor in scratchbox. Ideas? Dec 14 23:27:10 hm, no idea. have never used that. I'd check my mixer settings though, just in canse Dec 14 23:27:12 case* Dec 14 23:27:31 hrr Dec 14 23:27:31 Okay this is making me laugh Dec 14 23:27:34 everything else plays, though Dec 14 23:27:40 why the hell does this thing have a mac os folder? Dec 14 23:28:02 But, will dig for a beep setting somewhere...) Dec 14 23:28:03 oh wait, it could be a desktop setting right? I remember a switch in my gnome control panel somewhere Dec 14 23:28:06 maybe its using pc speaker? u got the cord connected? :p Dec 14 23:28:43 AakashPatel: for compatability and file system differences? Dec 14 23:29:00 dno Dec 14 23:29:00 AakashPatel: think its for usb mass storage mount so on osx it mounts correctly Dec 14 23:29:01 system > settings > audio > sounds > "play alert sounds" <= that's on jaunty w/ gnome Dec 14 23:29:02 Sir_Lancelot, Maemo Devices has been hiring like crazy in a recession. Being "unsure" of Maemo's future is silly. Dec 14 23:29:26 AakashPatel: atleast i needed tho first i thouhgt my osx made it automatically :) Dec 14 23:30:20 i have the folder aswell Dec 14 23:30:33 AakashPatel, for when you plug it into a Mac. Dec 14 23:30:42 * AakashPatel is doing that right now >.< Dec 14 23:31:58 internationalisation: http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/epic-fail-translation-fail.jpg Dec 14 23:32:22 hah SpeedEvil i saw taht yesterday Dec 14 23:32:33 mikhas: yup, thought I found it for karmic as well, but no help Dec 14 23:40:41 three streamed episodes of myhthbusters and battery down to 20% hehe Dec 14 23:41:12 hi Dec 14 23:41:54 I'm making a maemo version of my network of websites (city envies : paris envies, lyon envies, noitesdelisboa...) and I'm trying to do it with pymaemo Dec 14 23:41:54 sup with your hostmask Dec 14 23:42:27 is pygtk + hildon a good way to go ? Dec 14 23:43:16 I have little experience with deb packaing... is there a way to convert setuptools requirement to debian ones and generate a .deb simply ? Dec 14 23:43:48 and sup with alot ppl on freenode having realname set as 'purple' Dec 14 23:44:12 these are the things i wonder 2am Dec 14 23:44:21 best to head to sleep Dec 14 23:44:43 hehe Dec 14 23:44:49 (my hostmask is a bit old :)) Dec 14 23:44:59 (I'm not in the foresight team anymore) Dec 14 23:45:04 Foresight dev? Dec 14 23:45:05 ah Dec 14 23:46:26 I'm going to call my app maemoparty (since the websites have a lot of names :)) Dec 14 23:46:31 (depending on the country) Dec 14 23:47:19 I've done the python connector that fetch all the place, neighborhoods, ambiances, services and whatnot, and what is left for me to do is the UI... Dec 14 23:47:34 neat :) Dec 14 23:47:43 is pygtk a recommended way of doing apps for maemo right now ? Dec 14 23:47:46 MaemoParty would violate trademark. Dec 14 23:47:47 (packaging wise) Dec 14 23:47:53 GAN900: oh really ? Dec 14 23:48:01 Party for Maemo is the valid formula. Dec 14 23:48:04 GAN900: then I'll call it something else :) Dec 14 23:48:26 good to know GAN900 Dec 14 23:49:13 jon1012: yep, just make a Makefile that call python setup.py :) Dec 14 23:49:26 melmoth: are there examples for that somewhere ? Dec 14 23:49:37 most python apps Dec 14 23:49:41 jon1012, marginally obnoxius, but it may save you pain in the future. ;) Dec 14 23:49:56 ok :) Dec 14 23:50:36 Ugh, I get 1 bar of signal in this house. Dec 14 23:50:55 The perfect number to kill my battery in 8 hours. Dec 14 23:51:52 lol Dec 14 23:51:56 the dollhouse where everybody is high Dec 14 23:52:05 is cracking me up Dec 14 23:53:14 hmm, looks like powertop is stuck in the build queue Dec 14 23:53:31 woo! Dec 14 23:53:59 SpeedEvil: ? Dec 14 23:54:27 * SpeedEvil gets unusually excited over powertop. Dec 14 23:54:30 who was the builder master again? :) Dec 14 23:54:43 who could make it unstuck ... Dec 14 23:54:57 its really a small package and has been enqueued since 21:44Z Dec 14 23:55:21 Bob? Dec 14 23:56:00 na, i dont mean your toy **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 14 23:56:40 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 15 01:17:41 2009 Dec 15 01:17:48 It's 1/2 hour driving, with several required manouevers - reverse round a bend, turn in road, and parallel park Dec 15 01:19:23 heh, easy stuff if you've practiced it a few times Dec 15 01:20:11 And you're not being watched. Dec 15 01:20:56 yeah that is a bit annoying though :/ Dec 15 01:32:24 can my Nokia E72 be used as a keyboard for my N900 ? Dec 15 01:32:38 I need an S60 *.SIS keyboard application to do that Dec 15 01:36:49 is there a utility for assigning media artwork to an album? http://live.gnome.org/MediaArtStorageSpec doesn't look like you want to do this manually. Dec 15 01:38:09 maemo grabbed album pix for me somehow Dec 15 01:38:39 pupnik: that doesn't help for self-encoded music. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 15 02:08:00 2009