**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 16 02:59:57 2009
Dec 16 03:01:15 <Guest96848> sadly there is no ~/.profile - checked that too
Dec 16 03:02:39 <v2px> no ~/.*rc either
Dec 16 03:04:08 <jebba> v2px: just create a new .profile
Dec 16 03:04:14 <jebba> doesn't have to be there already
Dec 16 03:04:52 <v2px> ah ok so its executed on login. wasnt sure about that and too lazy to figure it out myself. thx :P
Dec 16 03:10:47 <jebba> andre__: microlith  !!!!!  I was able to reboot without reflashing!  I just set the thing to R&D mode.  sudo ./flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode
Dec 16 03:10:47 <jebba> It came back up fine! :)
Dec 16 03:11:04 <dmj7261> zaheerm: lcuk: GAN900: how is the video editing concept going?
Dec 16 03:11:17 <andre__> uh? nice
Dec 16 03:11:44 <jebba> andre__: ya, so there is defintely something else going on with people seeing    *  (*)  *  *  *
Dec 16 03:11:46 <jebba> ...
Dec 16 03:11:59 <lcuk> jebba, get that report into the bug report asap..
Dec 16 03:12:01 <andre__> jebba, feel free to comment on your bug report about that. weird
Dec 16 03:12:04 <andre__> hehe
Dec 16 03:12:14 <andre__> lcuk shares my mind :)
Dec 16 03:12:15 <lcuk> thats quite important
Dec 16 03:12:34 <jebba> andre__: and i kind of pieced that together by the few free remnants of code you guys published in DSM, so thanks for opening those bits up at least.  Nokia is gonna double my pay!
Dec 16 03:12:51 <lcuk> yeah andre, anything which allows data recovery without a reflash is a major win!
Dec 16 03:12:55 <jebba> god, can i just cut & paste this shit. hahaha
Dec 16 03:13:11 <jebba> I just had to set time & date at boot and then i was fine.
Dec 16 03:13:15 <andre__> jebba, Re "you guys": I'm not part of Nokia actually :)
Dec 16 03:13:30 <jebba> lcuk: see http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/MALF/   if you haven't yet.
Dec 16 03:13:35 <lcuk> andre :) but a pretty damn vital member of maemo :)
Dec 16 03:14:03 <jebba> wow. andre__, you're not part of nokia? consultant or something no? anyway, no need to answer.
Dec 16 03:14:25 <jebba> lcuk: any suggestions for places to file that?
Dec 16 03:14:29 <andre__> jebba: subcontractor. with some nice freedom included :)
Dec 16 03:15:16 <jebba> there's probably a few bugs that could be mentioned.   Bug 7019  bug 5450 bug 6350
Dec 16 03:15:19 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019 Release source code of "getbootstate"
Dec 16 03:15:20 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450 Installing many packages at a time via App Manager exhausts rootfs space
Dec 16 03:15:21 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 random reboot bricks device
Dec 16 03:15:47 <lcuk> random reboots
Dec 16 03:16:33 <andre__> reboots - that's the ugliest report I currnelty have. a bunch of comments, definitely several issues in one report, and lots of noise :-/
Dec 16 03:16:43 <lcuk> a LOT of noise
Dec 16 03:16:59 <andre__> yeah :-(
Dec 16 03:17:21 <lcuk> so finding something like this can be investigated
Dec 16 03:17:39 <andre__> have to make clear that forum and bugzilla are different tools. that's probably complicated if a normal user has never seen those tools before
Dec 16 03:18:19 <andre__> jebba:
Dec 16 03:18:48 <andre__> please also add to your comments that R&D mode is *not* recommended and should be disabled again later. It *will* create other side effects
Dec 16 03:18:59 <andre__> e.g. the keyboard backlight will behave weird et
Dec 16 03:19:00 <andre__> c
Dec 16 03:19:17 * andre__ tries to avoid followup noise
Dec 16 03:21:31 <andre__> jebba, also, your solution is quite Debian/Ubuntu specific, hence nothing for normal Windows users - also worth to mention :)
Dec 16 03:22:07 <jebba> andre__: hah. ya was seeing the weird keyboard thing thx for letting me know that it is "normal" or at least known.
Dec 16 03:22:36 <jebba> i'm running fedora x86_64 fwiw.
Dec 16 03:22:41 <andre__> please mention it, really :)
Dec 16 03:22:52 <jebba> i guess that's just a reason why the fucking FLASHER should be free software too.  Gah, the pain they cause   ;)
Dec 16 03:23:04 <andre__> oh. me too, but i was too lazy to set up sudo here :)
Dec 16 03:23:17 <jebba> ok, i did the comments already, but i'll respam them all again  ;)
Dec 16 03:23:43 <jebba> andre__:  i'll disable R&D mode on mine first to see if it goes back to brick. 1 min
Dec 16 03:25:15 <jebba> andre__: to be clear, no flasher exists for windows?
Dec 16 03:25:57 <andre__> errm. actually I must say that I don't know, as my only machine that runs windows has a broken USB :)
Dec 16 03:26:21 <gavin> there's a flasher for windows
Dec 16 03:26:49 <gavin> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
Dec 16 03:27:21 <andre__> but the "sudo" part won't work on windows
Dec 16 03:27:44 <andre__> jebba, see, I only want to avoid followup questions / noise. hence the request to be exact in your comment :) thanks in advance
Dec 16 03:27:50 <jebba> also   `hg clone http://hg.youterm.com/0xFFFF`  the free software flasher now has n900 code, but i havent tested it yet.  It can also set R&D mode.
Dec 16 03:28:34 <jebba> andre__: sry i pooched that then, as i sent it before i read what you wrote.  I've been at this for, uh, maybe 14 hours now hehe
Dec 16 03:29:38 <andre__> jebba, hehe, well, add a second comment :)
Dec 16 03:31:46 <jebba> ah, at least I collided with you on the getbootstate bug.  hah
Dec 16 03:33:38 <red> 13,5 hours of Java so far jebba :)
Dec 16 03:33:55 <red> i get the feeling im not in my sharpest of states hehe
Dec 16 03:33:58 <dmj7261> lcuk: you were doing a video editor mockup, right?
Dec 16 03:35:38 <jebba> i've spend the last few minutes merely trying to press "U" and plug in the fkn cable heh
Dec 16 03:37:19 <red> :D
Dec 16 03:37:43 <red> not that well there either then
Dec 16 03:37:53 <jebba> Yep, setting R&D mode, booting up, setting production mode, booting up A-OK   :)  No brick.
Dec 16 03:38:34 <jebba> free fone?
Dec 16 03:39:27 <jebba> andre__: is what i wrote in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019  ok?  I'm just gonna cut & paste relevent bits to the other tickets if it's ok.
Dec 16 03:39:29 <povbot> Bug 7019: Release source code of "getbootstate"
Dec 16 03:39:48 <DocScrutinizer51> jebba: reading about "why closed pkges" and #7019 really kinda made me sad :-/
Dec 16 03:39:53 <microlith> jebba: if I execute that enable-rd-mode it'll just trigger it without any reflash I assume?
Dec 16 03:41:40 <jebba> microlith: correct.
Dec 16 03:41:44 <GAN900> dmj7261, haven't kept tabs since BCN
Dec 16 03:42:10 <jebba> DocScrutinizer51: ya, nokia will probably have batteries blowing up or something but not let anyone look at the code to protect us or something....
Dec 16 03:42:20 <DocScrutinizer51> "huston we got a problem" muhahaha. State MALF, powering off WTF?!?!
Dec 16 03:42:37 <dmj7261> I don't know where there's even info about it now.
Dec 16 03:42:54 <GAN900> jebba, andre__ works for maemo.org. ;)
Dec 16 03:43:44 <andre__> jebba, if you replace "you" by "Nokia" and drop the last two paragraphs, and mention that your command is linux-only: yes :)
Dec 16 03:44:46 <jebba> ah gotcha.
Dec 16 03:44:56 <jebba> heh. s/redhat/fedora stuff ya,.
Dec 16 03:46:25 <jebba> ah, ya, but that "you" part wont go in other bugs as it's different issue.
Dec 16 03:50:21 <jadams> I have an n900.  I'd like to stream the videocamera feed over the wifi to another machine on the local network.  I would assume gstreamer is the way to go.  Am I incorrect?
Dec 16 03:51:10 <jebba> bug 5450 is marked Resolved: FIXED hehe
Dec 16 03:51:11 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450 Installing many packages at a time via App Manager exhausts rootfs space
Dec 16 03:51:15 <andre__> jadams, define "way to go"
Dec 16 03:51:40 <microlith> jebba: just noticed the weird behavior from R&D mode you mentioned
Dec 16 03:51:49 <jadams> andre__: definition: will work, at all, to stream video over the local lan (i.e. not qik)
Dec 16 03:52:54 <andre__> jadams, you know that gstreamer is a backend?
Dec 16 03:53:15 <DocScrutinizer51> Obviously depends on the streaming format you choose
Dec 16 03:53:20 <jebba> microlith: uh, did booting up in R&D mode de-brick for you? Or were you not bricked?
Dec 16 03:53:38 <microlith> jebba: was not bricked at the time, however that will be handy in the future
Dec 16 03:54:00 <jebba> ok, definitely let me know.
Dec 16 03:54:03 <microlith> will do
Dec 16 03:54:03 <jebba> plz  :)
Dec 16 03:54:25 <microlith> if things go like I expect, it will self-brick before I am home tomorrow :/
Dec 16 03:54:51 <red> microlith: in short what causes the self-bricking? :o
Dec 16 03:55:22 <microlith> red: bug 6350
Dec 16 03:55:23 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 random reboot bricks device
Dec 16 03:55:27 <microlith> but the device isn't really bricked
Dec 16 03:55:49 <microlith> jebba just pointed out some nokia program causes it to halt during boot because it rebooted too much
Dec 16 03:56:06 <warpatch> can someone tell me the program name of the "secure device" program? I'm a moron and forgot my password.
Dec 16 03:56:46 <red> microlith: mmm.. i've not experienced any random reboots and had the phone a bit over a week now, using 10+ testing and 2 devel software
Dec 16 03:56:52 <andre__> warpatch, ???
Dec 16 03:57:10 <red> is that random rebooting something hardware oriented or probably affecting all units?
Dec 16 03:57:10 <andre__> what "secure device" program?
Dec 16 03:57:10 <jebba> i've only had 1 random reboot days ago
Dec 16 03:57:15 <warpatch> andre__: I was hoping to killall -9 the program.  guess that won't work?
Dec 16 03:57:30 <microlith> mine's been doing it pretty furiously since friday
Dec 16 03:57:31 <andre__> warpatch, now if I had a clue what you talk about... :)
Dec 16 03:57:40 <microlith> had to reflash sunday, monday, and today
Dec 16 03:58:15 <jebba> microlith: you could try my kernel that has framebuffer console too, which will give more debug info.  But only if you're comfortable with kernels/modules/etc, otherwise....
Dec 16 03:58:22 <warpatch> andre__: hah, well...you click the power button and then you have a couple of options.  one locks the phone with a wonderful keypad
Dec 16 03:58:22 <red> microlith: by any chance did you use mass storage mode and transfered windows onto the phone via windows?
Dec 16 03:58:31 <red> files onto*
Dec 16 03:58:49 <microlith> jebba: I don't think it'll make much of a difference, since it's apparently a hardware watchdog kicking it
Dec 16 03:58:51 <andre__> warpatch, "device lock"
Dec 16 03:58:57 <microlith> red: a couple times, back on sunday
Dec 16 03:59:05 <warpatch> andre__: that is likely it
Dec 16 03:59:11 <andre__> hehe
Dec 16 03:59:28 <red> it rebooted on friday, but you didnt use mass storage mode with a windows machine until sunday?
Dec 16 03:59:29 <andre__> warpatch, tried 12345?
Dec 16 03:59:30 <jebba> microlith: but yours bricks after the reboot (sometimes? all times?).  Mine was MALFing before the watchdog was even loaded.
Dec 16 03:59:44 <microlith> jebba: after enough reboots it does
Dec 16 03:59:45 <andre__> warpatch, ah well, if you have reset it... hmm.
Dec 16 03:59:56 <warpatch> andre__: yes, I changed it yesterday and damned if I remember what it is now
Dec 16 03:59:58 <red> silly question, i havent checked, but what filesystem does the N900 use?
Dec 16 04:00:19 <microlith> red: rootfs is ubifs, /opt partition is ext3, remainder of the 32GB is fat32
Dec 16 04:00:28 <warpatch> andre__: but I remember the root password, so I was hoping to ssh and kill the program if possible
Dec 16 04:00:48 <jebba> haha
Dec 16 04:00:48 <red> microlith: good, ok
Dec 16 04:01:41 <red> do you "eject" the device or just unplug it from pc?
Dec 16 04:01:58 <andre__> ejecting is always safer
Dec 16 04:02:08 <microlith> red: since reads/writes aren't cached on removable media, just unplug
Dec 16 04:02:18 <microlith> hard disks and the like I eject
Dec 16 04:02:18 <andre__> warpatch, interesting idea. no clue if that works :)
Dec 16 04:02:47 <warpatch> andre__: me neither, thats why I was hoping to find the program's name and kill it if it exists :)
Dec 16 04:03:00 <red> one could still argue ejecting to be safer
Dec 16 04:03:22 <red> thought im unsure as if its just the fact i've been told to always do it instead of actually having read some facts to base it on
Dec 16 04:03:39 <red> but as for the bug itself..  pretty mindboggling
Dec 16 04:03:42 <microlith> yeah
Dec 16 04:03:52 <andre__> warpatch, if ssh works, you could also try devlocktool -C
Dec 16 04:04:56 <Macer> wow. i never noticed that SS uniforms had a skull on them
Dec 16 04:05:08 <red> where did that come from
Dec 16 04:05:11 <Macer> a skull and crossbones :) haha. those nazis sure knew how to make uniforms
Dec 16 04:05:17 <jebba> ...
Dec 16 04:05:30 <Macer> yeah. that was the wrong # sorry :)
Dec 16 04:06:55 <red> :D
Dec 16 04:07:01 <red> oh well, thanks for the uplift
Dec 16 04:08:02 <warpatch> andre__: well that doesn't seem to do anything really.  it doesn't throw an error but it doesn't change the code either
Dec 16 04:08:40 <warpatch> not sure if I'm using it properly, but I believe I am
Dec 16 04:08:43 <andre__> uh? but it should. what id you enter?
Dec 16 04:08:51 <andre__> see devlocktool --help
Dec 16 04:09:06 <DocScrutinizer51> warpatch: nota bene the --help says it needs old CODE to set NEWCODE
Dec 16 04:09:26 <andre__> argh
Dec 16 04:09:42 <DocScrutinizer51> andre__: ;-P
Dec 16 04:09:54 * andre__ should go to bed soon
Dec 16 04:10:14 <warpatch> DocScrutinizer51: so its probably not giving me an error when I type in the wrong code
Dec 16 04:10:28 <DocScrutinizer51> no idea
Dec 16 04:10:45 <DocScrutinizer51> lemme try ;)
Dec 16 04:11:48 <DocScrutinizer51> obviously no reply, no
Dec 16 04:12:43 <jebba> dbus-send --system --type=method_call \
Dec 16 04:12:44 <jebba>  --dest="com.nokia.mce" --print-reply \
Dec 16 04:12:44 <jebba>  "/com/nokia/mce/request" \
Dec 16 04:12:44 <jebba>  com.nokia.mce.request.get_devicelock_mode
Dec 16 04:12:58 <jebba> can probably set it some how with dbus too...
Dec 16 04:14:50 <DocScrutinizer51> warpatch: if any of the hackers here could spot the *file* where the lock code is stored then you most likely can reset it by simply editing or copying over the original
Dec 16 04:15:04 <jebba> warpatch: does this say that it's locked?  gconftool-2 -R /apps/osso/applet/osso-applet-devicelock
Dec 16 04:15:05 <warpatch> ugh, whats even ridiculous is that I can apparently answer incoming phonecalls
Dec 16 04:15:10 <jebba> haha
Dec 16 04:15:12 <warpatch> someone just called me and let me answer
Dec 16 04:15:23 <warpatch> let me check
Dec 16 04:16:16 <red> warpatch: did you change lock code and now as you attempt to enter it it says its wrong?
Dec 16 04:16:32 <DocScrutinizer51> red: yes
Dec 16 04:16:36 <red> i had the same bug
Dec 16 04:16:37 <warpatch> red: yes.  I was almost certain I remembered it but apparently not
Dec 16 04:16:52 <warpatch> its a bug?
Dec 16 04:16:54 <red> well, i did remember and i knew i typed it right
Dec 16 04:17:00 <red> but it didnt work
Dec 16 04:17:07 <red> restarting the phone made it work
Dec 16 04:17:23 <red> so there was some odd bug that the default code didnt work, nor the new one i entered, until i rebooted
Dec 16 04:17:40 <red> incase u didnt boot yet give it a try
Dec 16 04:30:35 <red> any luck?
Dec 16 04:31:30 <jebba> gconftool-2 --get /system/osso/dsm/locks/devicelock_failed
Dec 16 04:31:31 <jebba> that's cute
Dec 16 04:31:34 <jebba> i'm getting there....
Dec 16 04:33:16 <DocScrutinizer51> jebba: is this a bug? when display is set to "don't dim while charging" it still doesn,t undim on charger plugin
Dec 16 04:33:39 <DocScrutinizer51> jebba: could aslo be a feature ;-)
Dec 16 04:33:54 <red> i suppose that means the automagic dimming depending on lighting
Dec 16 04:33:58 <red> and not the idle dimming
Dec 16 04:34:13 <red> atleast thats how i thought
Dec 16 04:34:22 <andre__> what is "undim"?
Dec 16 04:34:42 <DocScrutinizer51> andre__: enable backlight
Dec 16 04:34:50 <red> change brightness to full when you plug to charger? :p
Dec 16 04:34:50 <andre__> heh. ah :)
Dec 16 04:34:55 <jebba> hmm, changing everything related to "lock" in gconftool and rebooting still comes up locked, so i dont think it is set there.
Dec 16 04:35:37 <DocScrutinizer51> jebba: to unlock??
Dec 16 04:35:53 <red> could there be a temp file which when present indicates locked state?
Dec 16 04:36:27 <DocScrutinizer51> could aslso actually be the lock code for modem
Dec 16 04:36:54 <DocScrutinizer51> handled completely outside linux system, on modem
Dec 16 04:37:38 <DocScrutinizer51> except the requester itself
Dec 16 04:38:02 <jebba> well, it's gotta be in there *somewhere*...
Dec 16 04:38:22 <jebba> i'll find it some day ;)
Dec 16 04:38:24 <red> thought the lockdown code isn't sim based so would be odd to be handled in the modem
Dec 16 04:39:33 <DocScrutinizer51> red: I'm not sure. AIUI a change of SIM as well triggers the hw lock
Dec 16 04:39:52 <DocScrutinizer51> SIM is modem subsys domain
Dec 16 04:44:57 <red> mm, true
Dec 16 04:45:16 <red> out of my ballpark anyhow
Dec 16 04:45:37 <red> im just the type of person to throw up suggestions even when I probably should just shut my trap :)
Dec 16 04:46:14 <DocScrutinizer51> red: jebba: so odds are you never find a location in any filesystem to change/reset hw lock code
Dec 16 04:46:56 <DocScrutinizer51> and you might end up with a locked modem even if warpatch managed to kill -9 lockerprog
Dec 16 04:47:17 <jebba> DocScrutinizer51: well, i bet it's there somewhere.  nvram in some systems. Even if the code itself is in the SIM or something, it's linux that is locking the screen, ala xscreesaver-ish. *that* can be killed.
Dec 16 04:47:29 <jebba> ah, good point tho
Dec 16 04:47:48 <jebba> even that's gotta be recoverable i would think....
Dec 16 04:48:27 <DocScrutinizer51> yep. by secrect incantation built by IMEI modulo PI
Dec 16 04:49:12 <jebba> man i'm glad i didnt have to reflash this thing.
Dec 16 04:50:19 <jebba> i'm outta here for the night though. hasta mañana....
Dec 16 04:50:35 <DocScrutinizer51> buenas notches
Dec 16 04:51:18 <red> and i still have 4 more hours of java debugging before software showcasing
Dec 16 04:51:33 <red> hate
Dec 16 04:52:08 <DocScrutinizer51> eeew. enjoy ;-)
Dec 16 04:52:31 <RolaBlade> Hi... anyone here know how or where I can find information on how to install maemo sdk on Arch Linux? Thanks
Dec 16 05:00:56 <jebba> RolaBlade:  uh, dunno, but i can give you an account on a system with SDK.  http://www.freemoe.org   (uh, still here, my calendar is whacked due to reset and brokentimezoneness in buenos aires gah)
Dec 16 05:04:34 <RolaBlade> jebba: how is this system
Dec 16 05:07:32 <johnx> augh! groupware is a PITA
Dec 16 05:44:08 <joppu_> Theme "reflect" now in extras-testing. Test test test!
Dec 16 05:44:36 <johnx> ooooh. is it shiny?
Dec 16 05:45:33 <joppu_> It's _really_ shiny
Dec 16 05:45:54 <red> Need to find where my phone is and then ill test, brb :)
Dec 16 05:46:21 <red> what category?
Dec 16 05:47:11 <joppu_> uh...
Dec 16 05:48:37 <red> nothing named reflect on the listings
Dec 16 05:48:45 <red> did refresh before checking "All"
Dec 16 05:49:42 <joppu_> Perhaps it's in an illegal category?
Dec 16 05:49:44 <red> wtf, sudo gainroot is prompting me for a password?
Dec 16 05:49:58 <joppu_> Autobuilder reports success
Dec 16 05:50:08 <johnx> red: install rootsh
Dec 16 05:50:19 <red> i have it
Dec 16 05:50:25 <johnx> type: root
Dec 16 05:50:28 <red> and it worked 2 days ago
Dec 16 05:50:44 <red> meh, went in
Dec 16 05:50:50 <red> did the command change?
Dec 16 05:50:58 <red> i recall an update to it
Dec 16 05:51:01 <red> not sure if i used it after
Dec 16 05:51:20 <DocScrutinizer51> sudo gainroot
Dec 16 05:51:37 <joppu_> red: http://maemo.org/packages/view/reflect/
Dec 16 05:52:01 <red> restarted x terminal and it seems to work properly again
Dec 16 05:52:01 <johnx> DocScrutinizer51, #
Dec 16 05:52:04 <red> some odd hickup :)
Dec 16 05:52:42 <red> what was the command to see available space for file systems
Dec 16 05:53:26 <johnx> df -h
Dec 16 05:53:48 <red> 95% on rootfs
Dec 16 05:53:53 <red> so shouldnt be the problem
Dec 16 05:54:02 <v2px> is there a screenie of the reflect theme?
Dec 16 05:54:10 <DocScrutinizer51> sorry, someone talked to me. netsplit wiped my screen
Dec 16 05:54:47 <red> joppu_: shouldnt it be visible in the add/remove application list?
Dec 16 05:55:04 <red> re-refreshing just to be sure before i go try cmdline apt-get
Dec 16 05:57:32 <red> apt-get install reflect
Dec 16 05:57:37 <v2px> no reflect in my app manager
Dec 16 05:57:41 <red> -> couldnt find package reflect
Dec 16 05:57:50 <red> did two refreshes
Dec 16 05:58:13 <red> it
Dec 16 05:58:21 <red> it's in devel, not extras testing dude :p
Dec 16 05:58:40 <red> < joppu_> Theme "reflect" now in extras-testing. Test test test!
Dec 16 05:58:56 <v2px> i use devel... but no reflect there, too
Dec 16 05:59:19 <Macer> oh no. the anti-toxin has iridium in it!
Dec 16 05:59:29 <Macer> haha.. i love star trek.. the older one cracks me up
Dec 16 06:00:47 <red> v2px: enabled it too now, refreshed via apt-get update and nothing called reflect for me either
Dec 16 06:00:59 <red> but the url above shows that it should be there
Dec 16 06:01:33 <sulx4> no reflect...
Dec 16 06:01:38 <v2px> so i guess there is a delay... :)
Dec 16 06:01:45 <red> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/reflect/0.71-1/
Dec 16 06:01:54 <red> this link is at maemo.org
Dec 16 06:01:54 <red> but it times out for me
Dec 16 06:02:12 <red> just "Waiting for maemo.org..."
Dec 16 06:02:15 <v2px> oh hey
Dec 16 06:02:25 <v2px> i386 is not what we want on the device :P
Dec 16 06:02:55 <red> haha, right
Dec 16 06:03:03 <v2px> so i think its not shown because its tagged with i386?
Dec 16 06:03:10 <red> dont hold not noticing that against me, been up for 28h
Dec 16 06:03:19 <red> joppu_: fixfix!
Dec 16 06:03:25 <v2px> heh me too. about 30h
Dec 16 06:04:04 <johnx> ddos/netsplits are killing me. I'll be back later
Dec 16 06:05:58 * red slaps joppu_ 
Dec 16 06:06:10 <red> tension building here dude :)
Dec 16 06:07:13 <v2px> :P
Dec 16 06:07:41 <v2px> the alternative is to provide screenshots
Dec 16 06:08:26 <red> yep
Dec 16 06:09:25 * DocScrutinizer51 drops a thermonuclear device on scriptkiddies, botnet maffia, and every single windoof user too lame to keep malware (beyond the one big virus from Redmond) off his box
Dec 16 06:10:19 <red> whats the xulrunner packages on the device?
Dec 16 06:10:53 <v2px> windoof user? :P
Dec 16 06:11:31 <RST38h> Michal Jerz is gooood
Dec 16 06:11:35 <v2px> red: for microb maybe?
Dec 16 06:11:47 * RST38h found the first maemo-related site (outside maemo.org) that is worth reading
Dec 16 06:11:51 * ShadowJK fails to find conference mode in maemo5 xchat
Dec 16 06:12:27 <DocScrutinizer51> what's confmode?
Dec 16 06:12:37 <ShadowJK> hide joins and parts
Dec 16 06:12:43 <red> ok
Dec 16 06:12:52 <DocScrutinizer51> click and hold chan tab
Dec 16 06:12:53 <ShadowJK> so i dont see the netsplitting
Dec 16 06:12:58 <ShadowJK> nope not there
Dec 16 06:13:09 <DocScrutinizer51> on 900
Dec 16 06:13:16 <ShadowJK> yes
Dec 16 06:13:33 <DocScrutinizer51> on 810 no idea
Dec 16 06:13:37 <DocScrutinizer51> not there
Dec 16 06:14:19 <v2px> try /set and pick the right option
Dec 16 06:14:44 <ShadowJK> /set is kinda not useful in xchat
Dec 16 06:15:00 <ShadowJK> and no per-channel settings are there
Dec 16 06:15:02 <red> Anyone have any ideas how to free space on rootfs partition? Mine shows 95% usage even thought there arent that many applications installed currently
Dec 16 06:15:13 <red> is there any way to purge/flush trash files or something like that?
Dec 16 06:17:26 <joerg_42> reboot
Dec 16 06:17:52 <joppu_> v2px: yeah, seems so :(
Dec 16 06:18:12 <red> doh, I tried that after removing some software already, with little change to free space.. 97% -> 95%
Dec 16 06:18:35 <joppu_> And yeah, it was in devel, my bad, my bad
Dec 16 06:18:57 <red> joppu_: and i386
Dec 16 06:19:12 <flux> red, have you installed stuff from extras or extras-devel?
Dec 16 06:19:18 <v2px> screenie pls :x
Dec 16 06:19:32 <joppu_> red: yeah, I need to rebuild it :(
Dec 16 06:19:35 <red> flux: one software from extras-devel (client to stream stuff from a media server), butterfly from extras-testing among few
Dec 16 06:20:04 <joppu_> v2px: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test2.png
Dec 16 06:20:20 <red> im aware of the issues that they might eat up space etc
Dec 16 06:20:31 <v2px> thx joppu_
Dec 16 06:20:32 <red> just asking if theres any way to cleanup other than reflash etc
Dec 16 06:20:43 <ShadowJK> aha, /chanopt confmode obn
Dec 16 06:20:53 <ShadowJK> s/obn/on/
Dec 16 06:20:53 <infobot> ShadowJK meant: aha, /chanopt confmode on
Dec 16 06:20:54 <flux> well, I'm not worried, I'm at 95% :)
Dec 16 06:21:07 <red> 95% used and not worried?
Dec 16 06:21:20 <flux> the amount doesn't seem to be increasing.
Dec 16 06:21:30 <flux> (by itself)
Dec 16 06:21:47 <flux> and I'm sure I have a bunch of software installed in the partition
Dec 16 06:21:49 <red> ah ye, well.. deleted all things i really dont use and im at 92% now
Dec 16 06:21:58 <v2px> i have 90%
Dec 16 06:22:09 <red> and im 92% sure its not increasing itself aswell so no worries
Dec 16 06:22:27 <red> but i do wonder why nokia went so cheap and made the fast partition that small
Dec 16 06:23:02 <red> or perhaps they underestimated the need.. no idea, someone wiser might know
Dec 16 06:23:18 <flux> it is likely the hardware decisions were made much in advance, and 256 might have sounded a lot bigger back then.
Dec 16 06:23:50 <flux> and when you make millions of devices (not sure what's the status of n900), every euro counts :)
Dec 16 06:24:05 <red> :)
Dec 16 06:24:27 <ShadowJK> and there's 32gig on the other chip
Dec 16 06:24:35 <redeeman> it also counts that people don't "break" their devices when installing stuff
Dec 16 06:24:41 <ShadowJK> if only software would use that instead
Dec 16 06:24:51 <luke-jr> um
Dec 16 06:24:59 <ShadowJK> and completely ignore the / chip
Dec 16 06:25:03 <luke-jr> root partition probably has reserved blocks?
Dec 16 06:25:29 <joerg_42> 256M is SoC storage I guess
Dec 16 06:26:05 <ShadowJK> well it's soldered ontop of the soc
Dec 16 06:26:21 <joerg_42> ShadowJK: lol
Dec 16 06:26:29 <joerg_42> yeah somehow
Dec 16 06:26:35 <ShadowJK> package on package
Dec 16 06:26:44 <joerg_42> by TI though
Dec 16 06:27:03 <ShadowJK> dont think so
Dec 16 06:27:19 <ShadowJK> ram is in the same chip I think
Dec 16 06:29:46 <red> joppu_: is ur themes only change the glossy virtual keyboard?
Dec 16 06:39:30 <slonopotamus> moooorning
Dec 16 06:42:06 <v2px> i like this theme: http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:M4w5Qh.png
Dec 16 06:45:06 <red> filthy : inside an url
Dec 16 06:45:25 <v2px> :P
Dec 16 06:45:35 <v2px> better this way? http://wiki.maemo.org/images/b/b6/M4w5Qh.png
Dec 16 06:46:02 <red> why doesnt the n900 virtual desktop icons have snapping? :p
Dec 16 06:47:03 <v2px> yea i miss that. is there a brainstorm or something about it?
Dec 16 06:49:34 <red> no idea, but it makes the perfectionist in me cry silently
Dec 16 06:49:45 <red> nudging stuff back and forth with stylus for hours :D
Dec 16 06:49:59 <red> and then accidentally enabling desktop config and pushing some icon off balance
Dec 16 06:50:15 <v2px> i was hoping i'm not the only one doing that :D
Dec 16 06:50:48 <red> haha
Dec 16 06:50:50 <v2px> or accidentally tapping on the X on a icon
Dec 16 06:51:55 <KMFDM> please snapping
Dec 16 06:51:57 <KMFDM> oh yes please
Dec 16 06:52:07 <KMFDM> i also
Dec 16 06:52:10 <KMFDM> spend so much time
Dec 16 06:52:11 <KMFDM> fixing it
Dec 16 06:52:20 <KMFDM> and then i accidentally move something
Dec 16 06:52:26 <KMFDM> i want a way to lock the desktop honestly
Dec 16 06:52:35 <KMFDM> so i can't accidentally go into edit mode
Dec 16 06:52:37 <KMFDM> and wipe half of my icons
Dec 16 06:52:50 <KMFDM> as has happened before when i dropped the phone into my pocket
Dec 16 06:53:22 <v2px> :D :D
Dec 16 06:54:22 <v2px> my desktop (i use only one): http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/1527/a63846504ce44d3c8ab88957771ff28e.jpg
Dec 16 06:54:52 <v2px> but the screenie is old. fixed the icons later tonigt
Dec 16 06:55:17 <tigert> red: theres a grid
Dec 16 06:55:25 <tigert> its just 4px iirc
Dec 16 06:55:28 <v2px> there it is http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/1529/6e69fc7689fb47f1bb8292e7649371b1.jpg
Dec 16 06:55:36 <v2px> there really is a grid?
Dec 16 06:55:37 <tigert> which makes it 0.4mm
Dec 16 06:55:56 <tigert> but go poke in hildondesktop.ini
Dec 16 06:56:06 <tigert> i think thats the filename
Dec 16 06:56:12 <tigert> it can be changed
Dec 16 06:56:18 * tigert looks
Dec 16 06:58:40 <tigert> no wait hmm
Dec 16 06:59:54 <tigert>  so /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini has lots of fun to break the ui ;)
Dec 16 07:00:08 <tigert> but i think the grid was somewhere too...
Dec 16 07:00:11 * tigert looks
Dec 16 07:02:10 * v2px tries to wait patiently
Dec 16 07:06:39 <tigert> darn, cannot find
Dec 16 07:06:54 <tigert> i remember someone mentioning this though
Dec 16 07:08:33 <v2px> *sigh*
Dec 16 07:09:35 <redeeman> nokia has said that won't come before maemo 6
Dec 16 07:09:43 <red> tigert: well there is some adjancing grid when adding stuff on the desktop
Dec 16 07:09:50 <red> but nothing snaps to it while dragging
Dec 16 07:10:11 <red> when you click done it moves around the items by a small amount but its negligible
Dec 16 07:10:47 <red> redeeman: wtf..
Dec 16 07:10:57 <red> they cant be serious, thats such a small thing
Dec 16 07:11:07 <redeeman> according to them its not a "no brainer"
Dec 16 07:11:22 <redeeman> maemo 5 is a joke to them
Dec 16 07:11:35 <red> well I hope to god you can upgrade N900 to Maemo 6
Dec 16 07:11:44 <redeeman> according to nokia you cant :P
Dec 16 07:11:52 <red> ...
Dec 16 07:11:55 <tigert> hmm
Dec 16 07:12:14 <red> i almost feel as screwed as to when the truth about apples nazim over appstore finally hit me
Dec 16 07:12:35 <redeeman> it really is weird nokia is doing nothing to maemo 5
Dec 16 07:13:47 <v2px> i thought there is a update coming b4 christmas?
Dec 16 07:13:54 <red> so much for having a perfect opensource platform which has GUI layer mostly locked and Nokia deciding not to cater for it
Dec 16 07:14:07 <red> makes absolutely no sense at all
Dec 16 07:14:16 * v2px acks
Dec 16 07:14:25 <ShadowJK> Oh have they said you can't now?
Dec 16 07:14:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> for now I suggest to keep a backup of the .desktop or whatever the file/dir is called. Then simply restore when you accidentally messed your beloved desktop
Dec 16 07:14:48 <redeeman> v2px: yes but who knows what that will contain, probably minor stuff
Dec 16 07:15:00 <adeus> bug fixes probably
Dec 16 07:15:15 <redeeman> but nokia only considers very few things bugs
Dec 16 07:15:18 <tigert> v2px: let me ask the folks, are you going to be around?
Dec 16 07:15:22 <red> wonder if they are trying to hook clients for having almost nice phone and trying to get them to upgrade to another expensive phone then
Dec 16 07:15:32 <v2px> tigert: sure
Dec 16 07:16:16 <DocScrutinizer-8> red: sounds much like FUD rant
Dec 16 07:16:21 <v2px> i'm hoping for "the community" to replace the closed-source stuff with open alternatives
Dec 16 07:16:28 <v2px> :>
Dec 16 07:16:32 <ShadowJK> v2px, checked out mer?
Dec 16 07:16:37 <red> whats a FUD rant?
Dec 16 07:16:45 <ShadowJK> Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt
Dec 16 07:16:49 <redeeman> DocScrutinizer-8: while they probably arent trying to "hook" people, they are effectively abandoning maemo 5 basically before its out the door
Dec 16 07:16:52 <v2px> ShadowJK: not yet. is it worth a try? :P
Dec 16 07:17:05 <red> im only experssing disgust if they really dont consider maemo 5 worth developing further and not making upgrading to Maemo 6 possible
Dec 16 07:17:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> redeeman: who told that?
Dec 16 07:17:22 <ShadowJK> v2px, I mean everyone that wants to open up teh closed source ought to work on/with Mer and the Mer people
Dec 16 07:17:52 <v2px> i'd help if i could do something good
Dec 16 07:18:01 <redeeman> DocScrutinizer-8: well.. johnx said that nokia said maemo 6 won't be coming to N900, and reading the bug reports (including some i made myself) it becomes abundantly clear that they are not interresting in anything that cannot be fixed with 5 minutes hacking
Dec 16 07:18:14 <DocScrutinizer-8> red: there's just exactly *one* word in your statement :"if"
Dec 16 07:18:15 <v2px> ShadowJK: i know perl! does this help? *hides*
Dec 16 07:18:35 <redeeman> DocScrutinizer-8: furthermore they state "this feature will come in later maemo devices....." when its REALLY simple and basic features they for some grotesk reason omitted
Dec 16 07:18:39 <ShadowJK> v2px, surely if you can distinguish perl from noise you can wrap your head around anything?
Dec 16 07:19:13 <v2px> ShadowJK: :> you got a point there
Dec 16 07:20:13 <ShadowJK> What I find annoying is that a bug is not a bug if the bug is in the spec, and it's hard to discover what the spec is
Dec 16 07:20:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> well, nokia managed with a lot of pain obviously to push N900 out the door just 2 weeks ago
Dec 16 07:20:32 <red> DocScrutinizer-8: im basing my ranting on what johnx said nokia said - which i cannot know for certain, hence the if
Dec 16 07:20:49 <red> really im just afraid and dunno if i should be angry or what :p
Dec 16 07:20:56 <DocScrutinizer-8> so I'm reluctant to speculate about their dedication to "small simple fixes"
Dec 16 07:21:05 <redeeman> i can understand that more advanced non-completely-basic features might not come to n900/maemo 5, i can even to some degree understand maemo 6 not coming, but the bugs/barebone features that they are refusing to fix for maemo 5 is frankly too much
Dec 16 07:21:32 <pupnik> k goodbye
Dec 16 07:21:33 <red> what redeeman said exactly
Dec 16 07:21:54 <redeeman> especially given that some of the features are even essential to have officially listed features work
Dec 16 07:21:55 <redeeman> for instance
Dec 16 07:21:56 <red> still im going to stay hopeful, can't know until they state something officially :)
Dec 16 07:21:57 <DocScrutinizer-8> red: exactly. scratch all other words. the if is sufficient
Dec 16 07:21:59 <redeeman> saving sent mail on imap sent folder
Dec 16 07:22:07 <redeeman> which they refuse to fix in maemo 5
Dec 16 07:22:14 <redeeman> they cant freaking list imap as supported without that
Dec 16 07:22:17 <pupnik> mail works fine here
Dec 16 07:22:25 <redeeman> pupnik: does it store sent mail on server? i think not
Dec 16 07:22:40 <ShadowJK> modest is suck, but I don't see anyone from community even trying to fix that either
Dec 16 07:22:47 <red> DocScrutinizer-8: why are you grabbing one word in few sentences only? are you not worried one bit or don't feel like the features missing are of importance?
Dec 16 07:23:01 <red> or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing. i find it hard to make out
Dec 16 07:23:05 <redeeman> ShadowJK: be that as it may, nokia is supposed to provide the basic features
Dec 16 07:23:09 <pupnik> i use webmail since .. the web :)
Dec 16 07:23:42 <redeeman> ShadowJK: but some parts of things are not even open, for instance, im told the calling application is closed, that makes it somewhat hard for us to work with
Dec 16 07:23:44 <red> for my gmail account imap stores sent messages, drafts not thought
Dec 16 07:23:58 <DocScrutinizer-8> I'm just not silly enough to argue and rant after 2 weeks from official release about sth that someone said foo
Dec 16 07:24:21 <redeeman> DocScrutinizer-8: most of the rant is about the responses to reported bugs
Dec 16 07:24:36 <redeeman> red: great, so it works if you use the magical gmail preset?
Dec 16 07:24:39 <DocScrutinizer-8> I give a shit to those responses
Dec 16 07:24:55 <red> redeeman: i chose gmail from the list and entered details
Dec 16 07:25:05 <red> DocScrutinizer-8: yet you are arguing, so your attempt to place yourself above it kinda fails.
Dec 16 07:25:13 <redeeman> red: including imap server,  port, authentication etc?
Dec 16 07:25:18 <DocScrutinizer-8> nokia is in panic mode right ATM
Dec 16 07:25:31 <pupnik> they are?
Dec 16 07:25:32 <red> if i recall correctly, it was a quick setup and among first things i did
Dec 16 07:25:43 <DocScrutinizer-8> red: huh?
Dec 16 07:26:01 <redeeman> well if they want to sell N900 they'd better fix the most basic things, as it stands now nobody that's serious about using even the simplest PIM features can do anything but laugh at N900
Dec 16 07:26:54 <pupnik> are you done?
Dec 16 07:27:11 <v2px> but i can have scumm on my n900. thats enough to make me happy
Dec 16 07:27:19 <DocScrutinizer-8> so WHAT? microsoft does not fix any bugs TWELFE TIMES  a year for at least as long as Nokia did now
Dec 16 07:27:38 <pupnik> redeeman: do you have an n900?
Dec 16 07:27:41 <redeeman> nobody said microsoft is usable to any degree?
Dec 16 07:27:43 <redeeman> pupnik: i do
Dec 16 07:28:00 <redeeman> and one of the things i expected when i read that it supports imap, is to have sent mails stored on server
Dec 16 07:28:11 <redeeman> not to mention namespace support since most imap servers uses that
Dec 16 07:28:16 <red> DocScrutinizer-8: do you really get bothered by me expressing worry of things i think are important and might be neglected in a casual place as IRC? when i clearly stated that im just afraid if it goes as the hearsay implicates.
Dec 16 07:28:18 <redeeman> (allthough surprisingly they are willing to fix that)
Dec 16 07:28:41 <DocScrutinizer-8> c'mon that's plain ridiculous to rant here "eew nokia abandons maemo5. for 2 weeks they came with no fix"
Dec 16 07:28:49 <pupnik> when are you returning it?
Dec 16 07:29:12 <redeeman> DocScrutinizer-8: im not saying fix should come that fast, but they are outright refusing it on the bug tracker, and furthermore, this is a feature nobody sane could _EVER_ think of omitting in the first place
Dec 16 07:29:20 <red> i didnt talk about any fixes, dont mix up :p
Dec 16 07:29:26 <DocScrutinizer-8> red: I'm worried *if* the sky falls down on my head
Dec 16 07:29:27 <redeeman> pupnik: im not, because i can live without that, but im certainly not recommending it either
Dec 16 07:29:50 <red> DocScrutinizer-8: why bother replying if you dont answer?
Dec 16 07:30:04 <red> grow up tbh
Dec 16 07:30:16 <DocScrutinizer-8> lol
Dec 16 07:30:56 <redeeman> ofcourse if you're saying that a response on the bugtracker like "store sent mail on server? omfg thats big change!! not in maemo 5!" means they will probably still do it, i take my comments back
Dec 16 07:31:04 <redeeman> but what am i supposed to think when i get such a response?
Dec 16 07:31:09 * DocScrutinizer-8 shrugs and leaves kindergarden
Dec 16 07:31:22 <mtrlt> it's kindergarten
Dec 16 07:31:32 <DocScrutinizer-8> have a nice time kids. behave
Dec 16 07:31:42 <redeeman> you are not responding to the statement
Dec 16 07:31:51 <redeeman> i must take that as that you cannot back your own statements
Dec 16 07:32:06 <pupnik> redeeman: http://lmgtfy.com/!q=linux+email+client
Dec 16 07:32:18 <redeeman> url doesn't even work
Dec 16 07:32:35 <pupnik> ha ha
Dec 16 07:32:42 <redeeman> and besides, pupnik, that's besides the point, official feature list says it supports imap, fact is it does not, fact is they have openly refused to fix it
Dec 16 07:32:42 <pupnik> are you useless?
Dec 16 07:32:46 <redeeman> now respond to THAT
Dec 16 07:33:14 <pupnik> ah
Dec 16 07:33:27 <red> quite amusing that this guy tackles one word, repeats the same argument over and over and doesn't respond to direct question and still behaves like above others :p
Dec 16 07:33:38 <pupnik> didnt know that.  in which case you may have a point buried in there
Dec 16 07:33:40 <redeeman> red: yes, its quite amusing
Dec 16 07:33:50 <pupnik> now
Dec 16 07:33:54 <redeeman> pupnik: i know you dont, because you didn't read what i wrote, but just felt like commenting anyway
Dec 16 07:34:19 <pupnik> you are so important, i can not describe it
Dec 16 07:34:35 <redeeman> i imagine quite alot of other people would wish that feature aswell
Dec 16 07:34:45 <redeeman> either way, if they list it, they should deliver it
Dec 16 07:35:03 <red> perhaps imap bugging for you is affected by some other issue
Dec 16 07:35:08 <pupnik> and you sir, should return it
Dec 16 07:35:17 <red> for me it works without a hitch, and could have been same for nokia testing it
Dec 16 07:35:29 <redeeman> red: according to the bug report its not a supported feature, and won't be
Dec 16 07:35:50 <red> perhaps the person checking the bugreport had a brainfart, mistakes happend
Dec 16 07:36:08 <redeeman> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2557
Dec 16 07:36:09 <povbot> Bug 2557: Keep Sent and Drafts on IMAP server
Dec 16 07:36:11 <red> should just give it a couple weeks and see how the situation developes
Dec 16 07:37:36 <red> from the attention its gotten it really seems like its low priority feature for nokia
Dec 16 07:37:50 <redeeman> pupnik: i don't even think i can return it anymore, and that's STILL irellevant, when they announce a feature, they had better deliver it, otherwise they are simply lying
Dec 16 07:37:59 <red> must remind you, that not all desktop email clients support sent items saving on the mailbox globally either
Dec 16 07:38:24 <redeeman> i know of no imap-supporting client that does not
Dec 16 07:38:46 <redeeman> evolution, kmail, thunderbird, cone, sylpheed
Dec 16 07:38:56 <redeeman> hell even outlook probably does
Dec 16 07:41:06 <redeeman> pupnik: http://www.strandreports.com/sw4031.asp <-- i would recommend you spend 5 minutes reading this, and then reflect upon this little conversation :)
Dec 16 07:42:26 <red> and btw evolution isnt perfect either, it wont save drafts aswell and one could argue it is a lack of a feature in the same ballpark, not as severe thought
Dec 16 07:42:38 <red> it can be worked around with some tweaking thought
Dec 16 07:42:42 <red> im mostly worried about the possible lack of support for the os in future, but its really way too early to know for sure and ive just seen hearsay and nothing official about it
Dec 16 07:42:55 <red> doesnt mean it won't make me worry, but i stay optimistic
Dec 16 07:43:21 <redeeman> evolution can save drafts on server
Dec 16 07:43:26 <redeeman> you just choose it under the account settings
Dec 16 07:43:39 <redeeman> (allthough i have a pretty old evolution, so they MIGHT have removed that, it is gnome after all)
Dec 16 07:45:18 <red> its bugged with default install settings atleast when i started using it just now, and had to rename some folders for it to work properly
Dec 16 07:45:30 <red> wouldnt have found out unless i googled for it
Dec 16 07:45:46 <redeeman> i confess i know nothing of new evolution, but it works in my old one
Dec 16 07:45:49 <red> which i bet some ppl wont bother to do and accept the missing "feature"
Dec 16 07:45:54 <redeeman> perhaps
Dec 16 07:46:12 <red> but for real, we'll really only see around january better, what the future is looking like
Dec 16 07:46:16 <red> too early to say
Dec 16 07:46:26 <red> atleast i hope we know alot more by then :)
Dec 16 07:46:42 <redeeman> well i think it seems pretty clear from the nokia guy that this will not be coming to maemo 5
Dec 16 07:49:05 <red> dno, i dont regard irc as the most trustworthy media for information under any case
Dec 16 07:49:27 <redeeman> im talking stuff on the bugtracker
Dec 16 07:49:56 <red> its not set in stone, what they write there :p
Dec 16 07:50:09 <red> neither is what is closed for community
Dec 16 07:54:50 <joppu_> red: no, it changes virtually anything in the UI
Dec 16 08:37:05 <sergio_> hi guys
Dec 16 08:37:15 <sergio_> I'm having problems today with git.maemo.org
Dec 16 08:37:23 <sergio_> I'm getting a SSL certificate error
Dec 16 08:46:00 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Dec 16 08:46:52 <sejo> morning
Dec 16 08:53:39 <jaem> morning
Dec 16 08:53:55 <jaem> from Wikipedia: "These combination locks were installed on Minuteman ICBMs in the 1960s. However, the Strategic Air Command in Omaha worried that in times of need, the codes would not be available, so they quietly decided to set them to 00000000; checking this combination was even present on the launch checklists. This was not changed until 1977."
Dec 16 08:53:58 <jaem> *facepalm*
Dec 16 08:54:25 <harryv> is it correctly understood that e.g. the n900 comes with full root access? no jailbreaking/rooting involved?
Dec 16 08:54:32 <jaem> harryv, you betcha!
Dec 16 08:54:38 <harryv> the lack of articles on how to do so suggests it.
Dec 16 08:54:45 <harryv> nice.
Dec 16 08:54:58 <jaem> well, technically you need to download one app, but it's in the official community repo, and is a one-click deal
Dec 16 08:55:18 <jaem> and it's supported in the sense that they encourage it, although obviously if you break something, it's your fault
Dec 16 08:55:30 <harryv> what does it do?
Dec 16 08:55:38 <jaem> the app is called "rootsh", and thereafter you can use the command "root" to get root
Dec 16 08:56:12 <jaem> not sure exactly how it works, but essentially Nokia just disables sudo access by default so people don't accidentally bork things, and this just undoes what they did in some fashion
Dec 16 08:56:15 <jaem> or something like that
Dec 16 08:56:22 <jaem> but it's completely painless
Dec 16 08:56:43 <jaem> unfortunately, in the default setup you still can't sudo things directly - you have to enter a root shell
Dec 16 08:56:54 <swc|666> jaem, rofl @ wikipedia article
Dec 16 08:57:08 <jaem> swc|666, :) - and you thought default router passwords were bad!
Dec 16 08:57:19 <fcrozat> hi all..
Dec 16 08:57:19 <swc|666> exactly ;)
Dec 16 08:57:36 * jaem googles "us missile default launch keys" ;)
Dec 16 08:57:38 <fcrozat> I'm having some issues with ldconfig which crash with bus error on n900
Dec 16 08:57:43 <fcrozat> (on /usr/lib)
Dec 16 08:57:50 <jaem> heh... at least they realized that was a bad idea after only 17 years
Dec 16 08:58:01 <jaem> fcrozat, hi - more detail, please?
Dec 16 08:58:06 <fcrozat> it seems it appeared when I tried to install omweather or python2.5
Dec 16 08:58:17 <swc|666> jaem, yea that's about the speed of bureaucracy
Dec 16 08:58:32 <jaem> swc|666, I imagine the speed of the missiles in the question was rather quicker :P
Dec 16 08:58:46 * fcrozat needs to install strace to check which file seems to be causing the crash :(
Dec 16 08:59:06 <jaem> fcrozat, hmmm... OMWeather worksforme, but I haven't messed with Python much
Dec 16 08:59:55 <RST38h> Something changed in Bugzilla.
Dec 16 09:00:07 <jaem> RST38h, is this unusual?
Dec 16 09:00:09 <RST38h> It started sending weirdly formatted emails.
Dec 16 09:00:13 <jaem> :S
Dec 16 09:00:21 <ShadowJK> the camera app is kinda bad at taking pics of people's cards
Dec 16 09:00:30 <jaem> you mean bugzilla has - *gasp* a bug?!
Dec 16 09:00:44 <fcrozat> jaem: well, I "just" installed the stuff from extras repository
Dec 16 09:00:51 <jaem> ShadowJK, that's what you get for cheating at poker
Dec 16 09:01:04 <jaem> fcrozat, what's the error?  - brb
Dec 16 09:01:11 <RST38h> No, I mean that something changed.
Dec 16 09:01:13 <krig> anyone know what's the rationale for the weird partitioning scheme? why not map /usr to the mmc rather than /opt?
Dec 16 09:01:29 <ShadowJK> jaem, business cards
Dec 16 09:01:30 <fcrozat> jaem: bus error when /sbin/ldconfig is run by postrm script
Dec 16 09:01:33 * krig filled his rootfs in no time
Dec 16 09:01:38 <fcrozat> (or when installing new packages)
Dec 16 09:01:38 <RST38h> krig: Because /usr has to become available before mmc is mounted
Dec 16 09:02:01 <krig> RST38h: aha
Dec 16 09:02:40 <ShadowJK> I thought I'd start doing like the asians, and take picture of people's business cards, and use the N900's tagging feature to be able to find them later
Dec 16 09:04:21 <jaem> ShadowJK, you should use Evernote with that as wel
Dec 16 09:04:29 <jaem> so you can do a full-text search on the cards
Dec 16 09:05:07 <jaem> it also occurred to me that Evernote would be handy for recording lecture notes in classes such as math, although if you do that, you usually just look like a noob
Dec 16 09:05:24 <jaem> fcrozat, not sure, to be honest
Dec 16 09:05:45 <fcrozat> jaem: I found strange I'm the only one with the issue
Dec 16 09:06:15 <ShadowJK> biggest challenge is to cover the LEDs with finger, regulating the amount of light, while not covering too much of the lens, so that it still sees enough to focus
Dec 16 09:06:35 <jaem> ShadowJK, hrm
Dec 16 09:23:59 <v2px> oooh i missed the bugday
Dec 16 09:27:34 * lucent glows happily "N900 arrived, picking it up from USPS office in 6 hours"
Dec 16 09:28:04 <lucent> curious if there's any trick to applying a zagg screen protector to it?
Dec 16 09:29:23 <sayjava> does anyone know if media player on maemo exposes some interfaces via DBus?
Dec 16 09:32:06 <lucent> great question though @ sayjava
Dec 16 09:33:23 <tigert> sayjava: the media player uses gstreamer stuff underneath
Dec 16 09:33:28 <tigert> those can be poked at via dbus
Dec 16 09:43:57 <Jaffa> sayjava: MAFW is a high-level media player API; I *think* it has D-Bus interfaces.
Dec 16 09:45:05 <lucent> Anything a new N900 user should know? like known bugs etc
Dec 16 09:45:22 <lucent> are updates poisonous?
Dec 16 09:45:38 <timeless_mbp> updates haven't happened yet
Dec 16 09:45:44 <timeless_mbp> so asking about them is well...
Dec 16 09:45:56 <timeless_mbp> generally speaking, you'll want the updates
Dec 16 09:45:59 <sivang> hey timeless_mbp
Dec 16 09:46:08 <timeless_mbp> and nokia delays weeks or months testing them before we deliver them
Dec 16 09:46:12 <timeless_mbp> because we're afraid to ship anything
Dec 16 09:47:24 <lucent> thanks for the advice :)
Dec 16 09:48:22 <lucent> my only regret is that the N900 doesn't look able to host USB devices
Dec 16 09:49:33 <redeeman> that would have been nice, but well... not really that required
Dec 16 09:49:53 <lucent> due to time-to-market constraints? or just not possible
Dec 16 09:50:26 <lucent> curious about whether we'll see an N900+1 that does host usb
Dec 16 09:51:27 <timeless_mbp> lucent: so, roughly each hardware product nokia has made has been different from the previous one
Dec 16 09:51:46 <timeless_mbp> so one can't apply the logic you're trying to apply to determine whether a future product will or won't have something
Dec 16 09:51:53 <Proteous> due to not wanting to deal with the battery power draw that might happen depending on what USB device people try to plug in
Dec 16 09:51:56 <Proteous> probably
Dec 16 09:52:16 * timeless_mbp doesn't think that was the reason
Dec 16 09:52:22 <Proteous> well fine then
Dec 16 09:52:24 <Proteous> hmph
Dec 16 09:52:30 <lucent> very good point @ timeless_mbp
Dec 16 09:52:31 <timeless_mbp> you're assuming that the person who selected the component was concerned about that
Dec 16 09:53:08 <lucent> I've heard that the push for micro-usb is very big in Europe
Dec 16 09:53:21 <lucent> does micro-usb allow host device?
Dec 16 09:54:02 <redeeman> microusb is the connector
Dec 16 09:54:05 <redeeman> it allows nothing :P
Dec 16 09:54:07 <timeless_mbp> so, roughly, mini-usb wasn't supposed to do hosting
Dec 16 09:54:10 <Proteous> the connector size probably doesn't have anything to do with what modes it supports
Dec 16 09:54:14 <timeless_mbp> micro-usb was supposed to enable various things
Dec 16 09:54:53 <fcrozat> lucent: there is an EU regulation mandatoring micro-usb as power plug for mobile phone
Dec 16 09:54:58 <lucent> oh, I suggest that because of my experience with Sharp C3xxx devices, a special cable was needed to trigger the host support
Dec 16 09:55:30 <timeless_mbp> the problem is...
Dec 16 09:55:34 <Proteous> same with the nokia n810
Dec 16 09:55:41 <timeless_mbp> usb charging became much more important than usb host mode
Dec 16 09:55:56 <Myrtti> lucent: china too
Dec 16 09:56:35 <Proteous> if they would just move to the minuscule USB standard they could solve all these problems
Dec 16 09:57:14 <Proteous> or was that petite USB
Dec 16 09:57:27 <Proteous> teensy usb?
Dec 16 09:57:40 <Proteous> I can never remember what usb cable to buy
Dec 16 09:58:12 <Myrtti> Proteous: have more coffee
Dec 16 09:58:14 <Proteous> I buy a micro B when I was suppose to get a mini A-
Dec 16 09:58:18 <Proteous> heh
Dec 16 09:58:51 <Myrtti> _berto_: aloha
Dec 16 09:59:14 <sayjava> jaffa: yes I know it has but it is not documented anywhere
Dec 16 09:59:25 <_berto_> Myrtti: moi :)
Dec 16 09:59:39 <Proteous> Once they impliment Mondo USB you can have a USB port that doubles as a car mount
Dec 16 10:00:15 <Myrtti> _berto_: any news on last.fm?
Dec 16 10:00:19 <sayjava> tigert: I wanted to use the highlevel framework (mafw) not talk directly with gstreamer
Dec 16 10:00:26 <ShadowJK> N810 has MicroUSB too. N800 has MiniUSB
Dec 16 10:00:45 <_berto_> Myrtti: I sent them yet another email yesterday, but no reply
Dec 16 10:02:00 <Myrtti> _berto_: reading from a blogpost with their comments, the message was that there's nothing stopping from making mobile clients, as long as they identify as such to last.fm, which allows last.fm to stream the client a stream that has been tailored for such devices
Dec 16 10:02:15 <ShadowJK> what do they mean "tailored"
Dec 16 10:02:22 <ShadowJK> surely you still want 256kbit/s AAC or whatever
Dec 16 10:02:42 <Myrtti> ShadowJK: some of the content is not available for "phones" due to licencing restrictions by the record companies.
Dec 16 10:03:00 <Myrtti> so basically some songs/artists/whatever are not available for phones.
Dec 16 10:03:03 <ShadowJK> oh, well, nokia says I have a mobile computer
Dec 16 10:03:23 <Myrtti> ShadowJK: and that's where we tread on thin ice
Dec 16 10:03:42 <lucent> can't it be a user option "which device do you have?"
Dec 16 10:03:48 <tigert> sayjava: ah ok
Dec 16 10:03:50 <lucent> let user pick. badda bing
Dec 16 10:03:57 <_berto_> and how am I supposed to identify myself as a mobile client?
Dec 16 10:04:08 <Myrtti> lucent: you think that the record companies would allow that? LOL.
Dec 16 10:04:16 <lucent> well, yeah
Dec 16 10:04:19 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: of note, the n810 didn't support usb charging
Dec 16 10:04:25 <ShadowJK> timeless_mbp, yeah
Dec 16 10:04:29 <_berto_> there's a getMobileSession() function in the API, but that doesn't seem to be for that
Dec 16 10:04:38 <_berto_> "In some cases, you may want to choose a different authentication path from the obvious (e.g. a mobile app could well use the desktop path if there's a web browser on the device). If in doubt, check them all out."
Dec 16 10:05:17 <Myrtti> _berto_: I suppose that the API key they issue you will tell them that this particular user is requesting the content with this particular app which is designed to be run on a phone.
Dec 16 10:05:26 <Myrtti> but this is only my speculation
Dec 16 10:05:35 <Myrtti> in reality, I have no idea how that would work
Dec 16 10:06:06 <_berto_> I haven't seen anything in the API
Dec 16 10:06:22 <_berto_> and when you request the API key they don't ask if it's for a mobile app or not
Dec 16 10:07:06 <lucent> timeless_mbp: thanks again for the wisdom about N900 vs N810 micro usb functions, it does clear up some confusion I had
Dec 16 10:10:10 <sayjava> Myrtti:I dont think there should be a problem with the device
Dec 16 10:12:57 <Myrtti> sayjava: I personally don't know what the problem is ;-)
Dec 16 10:13:08 <Lantizia> Lo, can I reflash my N900 back to defaults?  (i.e. re-install Maemo 5 reverting all packages I've installed)
Dec 16 10:13:10 <Myrtti> apart from last.fm not replying _berto_'s emails
Dec 16 10:14:43 <sayjava> Myrtti:I see, i signed up for the api, and there was no request regarding the application platform
Dec 16 10:15:09 <ct529> is it possible to install and use maemo as general purpose os on a laptop?
Dec 16 10:15:33 <ct529> (just watching videos, email, browsing, basic office editing)
Dec 16 10:15:47 <Lantizia> ct529: if you recompile it sure I don't see why not... it's meant for an armel processor
Dec 16 10:15:56 <Myrtti> sayjava: I'm only paraphrasing what I've read from their blog and such
Dec 16 10:16:08 <Lantizia> ct529: you'd also need more drivers in your kernel for whatever hardware the lappy has
Dec 16 10:17:47 <ct529> Lantizia: it is an "old" Turion laptop with 1GB RAM, ATI RADEON MOBILE X700, 100Gb disk ....running kubuntu 904 at the moment, but feeling the weight of the full blown distribution
Dec 16 10:17:50 <_berto_> Myrtti: it's not very clear, I haven't even found those restrictions in their terms of use: http://www.last.fm/legal/terms
Dec 16 10:18:02 <_berto_> they were only announced in their blog and in the forum
Dec 16 10:18:14 <_berto_> that's quite weird too
Dec 16 10:18:18 <Lantizia> ct529: thats nice, good luck
Dec 16 10:19:10 <ct529> Lantizia: do you think I can use the same kernel drivers?
Dec 16 10:19:16 <Lantizia> no
Dec 16 10:19:35 <ct529> Lantizia: oh .... I thought the underlying kernel was linux ....
Dec 16 10:19:49 <Lantizia> it is, but even linux can be stripped back to just what you need
Dec 16 10:20:03 <Lantizia> the kernel in maemo will have been stripped back to NXXX hardware only I suspect
Dec 16 10:20:31 <Corsac> Lantizia: might want to try mer
Dec 16 10:20:37 <ct529> Lantizia: yes, I realise that .... but why can I not add the original kernel drivers for my hardware? is it a technical or legal limitation?
Dec 16 10:20:41 <pupnik> anybody figure out hw to turn-off cell radio yet?
Dec 16 10:20:47 <Myrtti> sayjava: basically what _berto_ said: they're not very clear, and the little information there is has a PS. in it "definition of a mobile device is not set on stone"
Dec 16 10:20:52 <Lantizia> Corsac: I might? I'm not the one asking questions... ct529 is
Dec 16 10:21:46 <Lantizia> ct529: you just don't get it, forget about the idea
Dec 16 10:22:31 <Khertan> Hi !
Dec 16 10:22:46 <pupnik> old master khertan...
Dec 16 10:22:50 <Myrtti> _berto_: have you yet had any contact with mobbler people? perhaps they could tell about their experiences?
Dec 16 10:22:51 <Corsac> Lantizia: ho sorry :)
Dec 16 10:22:55 <Corsac> Khertan: hey
Dec 16 10:23:02 <ifreq> moin
Dec 16 10:23:27 <Khertan> Aya pupnik and Corsac
Dec 16 10:23:46 <_berto_> Myrtti: not yet, but I was planning to do that
Dec 16 10:24:07 <pupnik> i would really like to be off the cell network when i am at home
Dec 16 10:24:08 <ct529> Corsac: is it better to ask in mer? I thought I may simply re compile the kernel adding the necessary drivers and patches and that would be it
Dec 16 10:24:20 <sayjava> Myrtti: I hope _berto_: finds a solution
Dec 16 10:25:15 <pupnik> hehe @ google N900+rmmod
Dec 16 10:25:33 <florian> good morning
Dec 16 10:27:24 <Micha_> Khertan: Good morning. Got your pypackager working on the n900.
Dec 16 10:28:39 <pupnik> i hope you all saw the awesome hack to add ~ | > buttons to your xterm border
Dec 16 10:28:59 <swc|666> where
Dec 16 10:29:01 <Micha_> pupnik: Where?!?
Dec 16 10:29:21 <Myrtti> pupnik: is there a way to add ctrl-p and ctrl-n too?
Dec 16 10:29:36 <pupnik> i have to search chatlog
Dec 16 10:34:05 <pupnik> ruskie: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels -t list --list-type=string "[Tab,Esc,Up,Dn,~,|,>]"
Dec 16 10:34:22 <ruskie> mispased?
Dec 16 10:34:25 <pupnik> ruskie: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels -t list --list-type=string "[Tab,Esc,Up,Dn,~,|,>]"
Dec 16 10:34:27 <ruskie> ahh
Dec 16 10:34:33 <pupnik> oop
Dec 16 10:34:36 <ruskie> btw that's also on talk.maemo.org searching for xterm hacks
Dec 16 10:34:39 <red> How can I directly save certificates over the internet? School WLAN requires a certificate and I have a choice of multiple different types, all just end up "loading" when I click them in the browser
Dec 16 10:34:44 <pupnik> ruskie: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels -t list --list-type=string "[Tab,Esc,Up,Dn,~,|,>]"
Dec 16 10:34:47 <red> without the certificate I cannot connect to the wlan :P
Dec 16 10:34:51 <pupnik> dammit
Dec 16 10:34:52 <red> old phone retrieved it automaticly
Dec 16 10:35:13 <pupnik> pastefail
Dec 16 10:36:48 <pupnik> good q red
Dec 16 10:38:23 <ruskie> red, I think you need to save it localy first
Dec 16 10:38:43 <ruskie> atleast that's what a t.m.o post mentions
Dec 16 10:38:46 <red> attempting that
Dec 16 10:39:01 <red> but for some reason the links just time out, think ill go double check on desk pc if its dead links actually
Dec 16 10:39:04 <red> seems odd
Dec 16 10:39:58 <ruskie> use wget
Dec 16 10:41:27 <red> 11 of the 13 links were dead
Dec 16 10:41:29 <red> lmao :)
Dec 16 10:41:33 <ruskie> rofl
Dec 16 10:41:44 <red> guess i should notify the school tech support that wtf, update!
Dec 16 10:42:06 <bilboed-pi> anyone had any issues with/voip ? Works fine from some wifi networks, but not from some others.
Dec 16 10:42:08 <ruskie> or just "wtf" ;)
Dec 16 10:42:15 <red> got the certificate now, but upon connectin to wlan it said the cert is invalid and check time/date settings
Dec 16 10:42:23 <red> but it seems to be connected still, gonna test speedtest
Dec 16 10:42:32 <ruskie> bilboed-pi, I guess it depends how the ap routes the stuff and so on
Dec 16 10:42:49 <swc|666> bilboed-pi, probably a QoS issue
Dec 16 10:42:58 <bilboed-pi> used to work fine on those networks with my Nokia N81
Dec 16 10:43:02 <bilboed-pi> with the same account
Dec 16 10:52:29 <red> yay, once i've picked a certificate for a wlan connection
Dec 16 10:52:35 <red> i cannot change that certificate since its stored
Dec 16 10:52:43 <red> any way to "forget" connections?
Dec 16 10:53:37 <red> or mm, they are not appearing in the certificate list
Dec 16 10:53:51 <red> how do i add them in command line as root? theres no add in the GUI
Dec 16 10:54:10 <ruskie> red, just open them in file manager
Dec 16 10:54:13 <ruskie> that will auto add them
Dec 16 10:54:14 <slonopotamus_> how i _delete_ locations from foreca weather? :)
Dec 16 10:54:41 <red> ruskie: alright ty
Dec 16 10:57:41 <Corsac> slono_n900: ICBMs
Dec 16 10:59:41 <ruskie> gah... this when silent mute anything and everything is annoying
Dec 16 11:02:21 <pdrummond> Hi everyone, first time on #maemo!
Dec 16 11:03:38 <timeless_mbp> red: eh?
Dec 16 11:03:48 <timeless_mbp> ruskie: it doesn't auto add, it should *ask* you to add them :)
Dec 16 11:04:16 <ruskie> timeless_mbp, true
Dec 16 11:04:18 <slono_n900> corsac, ?
Dec 16 11:05:22 <red> timeless_mbp: problem wasnt the phone, was the outdated certificate links in the intranet documentation
Dec 16 11:05:33 <red> for some reason n900 doesnt automaticly get it
Dec 16 11:05:42 <timeless_mbp> automatically get what?
Dec 16 11:06:01 <red> certificate required for getting full connectivity via school wlan
Dec 16 11:06:09 <slono_n900> meh, was cleaning up ~ on n800 and suddenly it started showing mouse cursor. anyone knows what should i put back to hide it?
Dec 16 11:06:15 <red> can access intranet but not outside, unless certificates are correct
Dec 16 11:09:01 <red> works like a charm now, used wget in Downloads folder, installed the certificate via file manager as suggested
Dec 16 11:09:18 <red> first wget them to user folder but the app couldnt access there hehe, work in vain :)
Dec 16 11:10:52 <pdrummond> Can anyone help me - trying to get zbarcam to work on N900 but it just displays a zbar logo when I run it?
Dec 16 11:11:48 <red> http://www.speedtest.net/result/654189718.png
Dec 16 11:12:41 <ruskie> red, yeah that's annoying not able to select anywhere outside of MyDocs or the sd
Dec 16 11:13:12 <red> whats the command line cmd to launch the file manager? wonder if by using sudo gainroot and launching it then u could get full access
Dec 16 11:14:24 <Micha_> pupnik: Thanks for re-highlighting that hack, works great.
Dec 16 11:18:04 <timeless_mbp> red: full access to what?
Dec 16 11:18:28 <Khertan> the most annoying is that &é#!!!#&é"é& hildon chooser dialog which hide file extension
Dec 16 11:18:50 <Khertan> and gtk.FileChooser is completely broken
Dec 16 11:18:51 <timeless_mbp> Khertan: like every other user facing platform
Dec 16 11:19:23 <Khertan> timeless_mbp: i don't know any user facing platform which hide extension
Dec 16 11:19:32 <Khertan> or at least it s an option
Dec 16 11:20:31 <pdrummond> ls
Dec 16 11:20:56 <pdrummond> exit
Dec 16 11:21:17 <red> timeless_mbp: mail, http, etc
Dec 16 11:21:30 <red> will not forward unless certificates are correct
Dec 16 11:21:40 <red> the wlan here is quite strict
Dec 16 11:21:57 <red> same with connection, have to tunnel to get out with regular ssh
Dec 16 11:22:15 <ShadowJK> huh, who would use the file manager for things where file extension matters
Dec 16 11:22:35 <red> could I have run the certificate .cer just typing the filename in terminal?
Dec 16 11:22:45 <red> or what is the program that handles installing them
Dec 16 11:22:45 <ShadowJK> you don't run a certificate
Dec 16 11:22:57 <red> had no idea so i ran them thru file manager and worked
Dec 16 11:30:05 <Jiri-> Hello
Dec 16 11:30:37 <Jiri-> can someone talk by trought step by step how to install p2p tranmission to my n900?
Dec 16 11:34:40 <red> Jiri-: do you know how to use the application manager?
Dec 16 11:35:25 <Jiri-> i think so
Dec 16 11:35:55 <red> i dont recall for sure, but if the transmission app isn't in extras-testing etc, it should appear in the "All" listing in there
Dec 16 11:36:04 <Jiri-> it's not
Dec 16 11:36:11 <Jiri-> thats the problem
Dec 16 11:36:44 <red> ill walk u thru in query
Dec 16 12:02:12 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/16/cops_need_warrant_to_search_cell_phone/ <_- hmm
Dec 16 12:05:16 <Corsac> ruskie: n900 is a mobile computer!
Dec 16 12:10:29 <Ceron> yes watch ouyt
Dec 16 12:10:47 <Ceron> watch out soon they will take your "mobile computer" at the airfield
Dec 16 12:10:59 <Ceron> its not a phone so they can take it!
Dec 16 12:11:40 <wazd_n800> heya all
Dec 16 12:14:04 <sivang> Ceron: right, it's a net-tablet :)
Dec 16 12:14:10 * sivang likes to call it that way
Dec 16 12:16:42 <wazd_n800> RST38h, around?)
Dec 16 12:34:16 <anpr> anyone from UK ? :)
Dec 16 12:35:52 <tigert> v2px_: see transitions.ini
Dec 16 12:37:50 <v2px_> tigert: huh?
Dec 16 12:37:51 <cosmo> anpr: i heard it snowed in london.. so probably all electricity and internet is out as people are panicing
Dec 16 12:40:10 <tigert> v2px_: duh
Dec 16 12:40:31 <cehteh> cosmo: lol .. even the tubes are out of service again? :)
Dec 16 12:41:05 <cosmo> they all probably have derailed
Dec 16 12:41:38 <furunk3l> must...not...type...
Dec 16 12:41:46 <furunk3l> soooo...tempting...
Dec 16 12:42:15 <tigert> v2px_: looks like in current sw release the grid is not adjustable
Dec 16 12:42:54 <v2px_> tigert: ooh, thats sad. but i dont even have options in my transitions.ini
Dec 16 12:44:31 <tigert> yah, because its not implemented in this universe yet ;)
Dec 16 12:44:59 <tigert> transitions.ini has some other pretty cool stuff though :)
Dec 16 12:45:57 <RST38h> moo, tigert, all
Dec 16 12:46:06 <tigert> moo
Dec 16 12:48:34 <RST38h> wazd: heya
Dec 16 12:50:00 <tigert> thp: woo, update!
Dec 16 12:50:04 * tigert downloads
Dec 16 12:52:41 <zaheerm> it is snowing in london
Dec 16 12:55:01 <zs> zaheerm: you call it snowing? :D
Dec 16 12:55:32 <zaheerm> zs: well it has settled here in harrow
Dec 16 12:55:53 <zaheerm> zs, and i see plenty of snow flakes out of the window
Dec 16 12:56:03 <anpr> so guys, anyone from the UK ?
Dec 16 12:57:29 <zs> anpr: me :)
Dec 16 12:57:38 <Milo-> tekojo are you the one that's going to hold the Maemo Developing course at Metropolia university in feruary?
Dec 16 12:57:46 <anpr> zs, hey, have some time ?
Dec 16 12:58:11 <zs> anpr: it depends for what :P
Dec 16 13:04:30 <v2px_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djVaJN0f0VQ (sorry for OT but i had to post this)
Dec 16 13:05:23 * tigert lols at N900Fly app
Dec 16 13:05:33 <RST38h> have you tested it already?
Dec 16 13:05:58 <tigert> jutst 45cm :)
Dec 16 13:06:50 <tru_> hey. I am writing a share-plugin for a gallery service. I was just wondering how I can see the things I log with ULOG in the scratchbox environment?
Dec 16 13:07:01 <tru_> it's kind of hard to debug without the logmessages :)
Dec 16 13:10:34 * v2px_ installs n900fly
Dec 16 13:13:14 <v2px_> 1.12m. beat that!
Dec 16 13:17:27 <bigon> https://git.maemo.org/ <<< ssl cert has exired :/
Dec 16 13:18:44 <ifreq> bad bad admin
Dec 16 13:19:22 <toggles_w> anyone know why .bashrc isn't executed when starting a terminal? but it is on subsequent bash invokations?
Dec 16 13:20:54 <flux> toggles_w, I'm guessing you aren't starting bash when you're starting a terminal
Dec 16 13:21:01 <flux> toggles_w, you could modify .profile instead
Dec 16 13:21:34 <flux> toggles_w, be warned though that some fellow needlessly complicated his life by adding an infinite loop into it..
Dec 16 13:21:34 <toggles_w> flux: i dis a usermod -s /bin/bash user to set the default shell, but when started from the desktop shortcut it wont read .bashrc
Dec 16 13:21:40 <sp3000> http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html#Bash-Startup-Files
Dec 16 13:21:47 <flux> toggles_w, have you verified you are indeed running bash?
Dec 16 13:22:01 <toggles_w> flux: $SHELL says so
Dec 16 13:22:15 <flux> toggles_w, how about ls -l /proc/$$/exe ?
Dec 16 13:22:38 <toggles_w> yeah, points to bash
Dec 16 13:22:42 <sp3000> see manual
Dec 16 13:22:52 <flux> I shall concede then and point to sp's piece of advice :)
Dec 16 13:23:11 <sp3000> i.e. you're probably getting a login shell initially
Dec 16 13:23:21 <tru_> Anyone knows where logmessages from ULOG ends up?
Dec 16 13:23:24 <tru_> I can't find them.
Dec 16 13:24:38 <andras> hello, can somebody tell me which package do I need to install in scratchbox in order to get gpsfake?
Dec 16 13:24:49 <sp3000> I'd guesstimate something in the ballpark of syslog and/or stdoutish?
Dec 16 13:25:08 <andras> Of course, I have already Googled it, and found that the package is gpsd
Dec 16 13:25:10 <sp3000> syslog of course isn't installed by default, at least historically I think the tools repo had it
Dec 16 13:25:21 <toggles_w> sp3000: yeah, thanks, I copied the bit from .profile on ubuntu in and it works, thanks again
Dec 16 13:25:26 <sp3000> np
Dec 16 13:25:26 <toggles_w> flux: thanks too!
Dec 16 13:25:49 <tru_> sp3000: it doesn't end up in syslog anyway. not as far as I can see.
Dec 16 13:27:06 <sp3000> hm, ok
Dec 16 13:27:27 * sp3000 doesn't really ULOG :)
Dec 16 13:27:37 <tru_> what do you use then? :)
Dec 16 13:27:50 <sp3000> I don't have time to touch code :)
Dec 16 13:27:56 <tru_> ah.
Dec 16 13:28:08 <tru_> A bit annoying that I can't find documentation for it.
Dec 16 13:28:15 <sp3000> well except for uninformed merges and such exciting things
Dec 16 13:29:33 <_berto_> what happens to garage? it's terribly slow here
Dec 16 13:29:54 <adeus> acting like it always does
Dec 16 13:30:18 <_berto_> I think it's specially slower today
Dec 16 13:31:22 <DocScrutinizer51> same snail as yesterday
Dec 16 13:34:49 <timeless_mbp> _berto_: it's been slow for months :)
Dec 16 13:48:18 <smaug> Does anyone happen to know when there will be some update to N900. Would be great to get a working email reader (hoping the update will fix the problems)
Dec 16 13:48:51 <timeless_mbp> smaug: sorry
Dec 16 13:48:57 <timeless_mbp> that's a secret, even the managers here don't know :)
Dec 16 13:49:30 <w00t> timeless_mbp: haha
Dec 16 13:52:12 <timeless_mbp> w00t: it means they can't accidentally leak the wrong date :)
Dec 16 13:53:07 <w00t> psh, the more amusing approach is to tell everyone a different date and then see which date leaks :)
Dec 16 13:53:16 * timeless_mbp nods
Dec 16 13:53:17 <_berto_> timeless_mbp: garage is probably still running on an n800, i thought they were going to replace it with an n900 now that it's out
Dec 16 13:53:30 <timeless_mbp> _berto_: there was a device shortage
Dec 16 13:53:36 <timeless_mbp> there's a waiting list for internals to get them
Dec 16 13:53:36 <wazd_n801> w00t: that's what apple does)
Dec 16 13:56:39 <derf> I thought the recent upgrade to garage was from a 770 to an N800.
Dec 16 13:56:48 <_berto_> derf: that was 2 years ago
Dec 16 13:57:15 <derf> Maybe they got a second N800.
Dec 16 13:57:18 <derf> For load balancing.
Dec 16 13:57:30 <_berto_> or replaced it with an N810 thinking it was going to be faster
Dec 16 13:57:56 <derf> Or just upgraded it to OS2008 for the clock speed bump.
Dec 16 13:58:20 * RST38h moos with passion
Dec 16 13:58:47 <RST38h> Whoever wanted mapping software, check Maep. It rules (when author fixes it of course)
Dec 16 13:59:16 <wazd_n801> maep?) nice name
Dec 16 13:59:33 <derf> Isn't that the same state Maemo Mapper is in?
Dec 16 13:59:48 <derf> "This would be great if you hadn't added all those bugs."
Dec 16 14:04:27 <Lynoure> This is not directly a maemo question, but I'm trying to find some GPL (or other free) .wav files to use as sound effects in my maemo app, any idea where one finds them?
Dec 16 14:05:02 * SpeedEvil farts in Lynoures general direction, and records it under cc-by-sa.
Dec 16 14:05:17 <stevenhong> have nokia give up the support for the os2008?
Dec 16 14:05:30 <SpeedEvil> http://www.freesound.org/ ? a google reverals
Dec 16 14:07:22 <Lynoure> SpeedEvil: I tried googling, but got baffled by the 5 kinds of 'free'
Dec 16 14:07:34 <stevenhong> have anyone boot the system in mmc card?
Dec 16 14:07:38 <Lynoure> SpeedEvil: your fart would do just fine for dev purposes :)
Dec 16 14:07:51 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: s/reverals/reveals/ ?
Dec 16 14:09:02 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 16 14:09:12 <SpeedEvil> My fingers are cod.
Dec 16 14:09:14 <SpeedEvil> cold.
Dec 16 14:14:32 <joppu> red: sulx4: It's now in armel-devel, autobuilder was just being too goddamn slow.
Dec 16 14:26:51 <red> joppu: downloaded and installed with 1 error, but seems to be working
Dec 16 14:27:02 <red> changed background background thought
Dec 16 14:27:28 <red> and I think the gloss is wee bit too bright, id reduce it 25% (or create a glossy darker :>)
Dec 16 14:27:56 <red> or perhaps not by as much as 25%, but slightly
Dec 16 14:28:34 <red> but nice work still, defo 2nd best theme for now, and if there ever comes a darker one i'll surely use it
Dec 16 14:28:54 <red> for now I prefer the digital life orange colours to the cold blue, but props for the nice button gfx
Dec 16 14:32:06 <pupnik> ustream vs qik  http://www.adonismobile.com/2008/12/ustreamtv-prepping-mobile-client.html
Dec 16 14:32:17 <joppu> red: there should be a horrible bug on the Conversations, otherwise it should work really well
Dec 16 14:33:15 <LuciusMare> hi
Dec 16 14:34:03 <LuciusMare> i heard of these bricks and i am not sure if iunderstood it right - does n900 support "dead charging" ? - Totally uncharged battery but charging through the mobile.
Dec 16 14:35:01 <LuciusMare> And, i heard that there is a mplayer port, but "it is unsure if it uses the DSP unit of n900 which accelerates the playing"
Dec 16 14:36:37 <X-Fade> konttori_nokia: ping?
Dec 16 14:37:32 <konttori_nokia> X-Fade, pong
Dec 16 14:37:34 <konttori_nokia> sup?
Dec 16 14:47:36 <joppu> LuciusMare: I highly doubt that it'd use DSP
Dec 16 14:48:33 <joppu> konttori_nokia: first Theme Maker theme now in devel o/
Dec 16 14:48:48 <konttori_nokia> joppu, great!
Dec 16 14:48:50 <konttori_nokia> wohoo!
Dec 16 14:49:34 <Macer> wow seriously this freenode crap
Dec 16 14:49:47 <Macer> in the middle of a conversation and 20 people split off
Dec 16 14:49:51 <timeless_mbp> Macer: you'd prefer for two n810wimax devices to host maemonet?
Dec 16 14:49:55 <w00t> Macer: they're under rather heavy ddos (yes, still)
Dec 16 14:50:07 <Macer> timeless_mbp: they would probably work better :)
Dec 16 14:50:15 <Macer> timeless_mbp: or a jabber conference heh
Dec 16 14:50:34 <Macer> w00t: is that what that is? i figured someone tripped over a cable
Dec 16 14:50:41 <w00t> Macer: aye
Dec 16 14:50:44 <Macer> damn taiwan
Dec 16 14:50:50 <Macer> it's always china or taiwan
Dec 16 14:50:51 <hrw> morning
Dec 16 14:51:10 <Macer> ah well. shower time
Dec 16 14:51:12 <joppu> damn cyber warfare
Dec 16 14:51:19 <redeeman> someone should just cut the chinese off for good
Dec 16 14:51:34 <redeeman> itss not as if the chinese people arent already
Dec 16 14:51:37 <hrw> finally sent N900 back to DDP. replacement will be sent tomorrow
Dec 16 14:52:43 <timeless_mbp> hrw: thanks for the update
Dec 16 14:52:45 <timeless_mbp> sorry about the pain
Dec 16 14:52:59 <timeless_mbp> otoh, it could be worse, my 'red' n900 is still sitting on a table here
Dec 16 14:53:26 <hrw> timeless_mbp: things happens. good side is that it was catched on first week
Dec 16 14:53:42 <w00t> timeless_mbp: ..red?
Dec 16 14:57:51 <timeless_mbp> w00t: well, devices have to have names
Dec 16 14:57:58 <timeless_mbp> one n900 was 'green' (running a green theme)
Dec 16 14:58:10 <timeless_mbp> and one n900 was 'red' (running the digital nature orange theme)
Dec 16 14:58:23 <timeless_mbp> each one had a colored tab sticking out w/ red, green, etc
Dec 16 14:58:34 <timeless_mbp> so i could just look at the tab to identify the given n900
Dec 16 14:58:44 <timeless_mbp> when you work in an office w/ >100 n900s, it helps to label them
Dec 16 14:58:51 <w00t> hehe
Dec 16 14:59:15 <LuciusMare> interesting :)
Dec 16 15:01:23 <LuciusMare> i want a pink n800
Dec 16 15:01:44 <pupnik> spraypaint
Dec 16 15:01:48 <LuciusMare> lol
Dec 16 15:01:59 <pupnik> anybody manage to get a nice stream from camera ?
Dec 16 15:02:05 <cehteh> i want a black n900
Dec 16 15:02:22 <LuciusMare> cehteh: rock off!
Dec 16 15:02:36 <jebba> pupnik: not from front camera... driver bug it looks like
Dec 16 15:02:46 * andre__ should take a photo of the "Lego Brickmaster" advertisements around here - might describe the position of some people quite well
Dec 16 15:03:04 <pupnik> jebba: qik solved it somehow.  but we have no v4l?
Dec 16 15:03:06 <LuciusMare> and,i heard rumours 'bout failing BT while trying to connect to wifi...
Dec 16 15:03:53 <jebba> pupnik: ah, i thought you were talking about the front (screen) camera.
Dec 16 15:04:18 <jebba> pupnik: try:   mplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video0
Dec 16 15:04:26 <pupnik> ty trying
Dec 16 15:04:43 <pupnik> when i find device
Dec 16 15:04:48 <jebba> heh
Dec 16 15:05:52 <pupnik> kinda works!
Dec 16 15:06:18 <pupnik> nice speed
Dec 16 15:06:26 * pupnik ponders netcat
Dec 16 15:07:56 <tru_> anyone know how to use OSSOLOG? I can't seem to get the message anywhere (this is in scratchbox)
Dec 16 15:09:45 <pupnik> hey jebba we could do this maybe? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=26288
Dec 16 15:10:09 <pupnik> BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso26+0m5) built-in shell (ash)
Dec 16 15:10:09 <pupnik> Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.
Dec 16 15:10:11 <pupnik> Nokia-N900-42-11:/root$ gst-launch-0.10 -v v4l2src ! 'video/x-raw-yuv,width=320,height=240,framerate=8/1' ! ffmpegcolorspace ! jpegenc ! tcpserversink host=$DESKTOP_HOST port=5434
Dec 16 15:10:16 <pupnik> oops too many
Dec 16 15:11:22 <pupnik> ERROR: from element /GstPipeline:pipeline0/GstV4l2Src:v4l2src0: Could not negotiate format
Dec 16 15:11:27 <pupnik> need to enquire supported format?
Dec 16 15:12:12 <Micha_> is garage always really really slow?
Dec 16 15:12:27 <jebba> pupnik:  http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#mplayer
Dec 16 15:13:51 <pupnik> GstPipeline:pipeline0/GstV4l2Src:v4l2src0.GstPad:src: caps = video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)YUY2, width=(int)2592, height=(int)1968, framerate=(fraction)323/25
Dec 16 15:13:57 <pupnik> hehe heh heh
Dec 16 15:14:39 <jebba> ah cool.
Dec 16 15:16:14 <pupnik> very cool page there jebba
Dec 16 15:16:22 <jebba> thx
Dec 16 15:23:28 <red>  joppu so any chance for darker version? =)
Dec 16 15:29:24 <SpeedEvil> woo. /me finds spare bl5j down back of sofa.
Dec 16 15:29:31 * SpeedEvil discharges, and places in fridge.
Dec 16 15:39:48 <red> would last.fm scrobbling be hard to do?
Dec 16 15:41:24 <joppu> red: perhaps, perhaps. It'd be actually be pretty trivial to change the color values, but I don't know, I kinda like it the way it is :D
Dec 16 15:41:31 <joppu> I'll see about it
Dec 16 16:14:55 <Milo-> alt button could be handy for the keyboard
Dec 16 16:16:53 <pupnik> what would you remove
Dec 16 16:17:01 <Milo-> nothing
Dec 16 16:17:18 <Milo-> except no
Dec 16 16:17:25 <Milo-> wait. yes
Dec 16 16:17:33 <sp3000> X-Fade: hash sum mimatch time! (extras-testing)
Dec 16 16:17:38 <Milo-> shift+2nd
Dec 16 16:17:38 <sp3000> mismatch even
Dec 16 16:18:42 <Milo-> which is the main grapchics library for maemo? qt or gtk?
Dec 16 16:18:59 <Milo-> developer's guide talks about gtk
Dec 16 16:19:09 <Milo-> but nokia is qt-fan
Dec 16 16:19:30 <mgedmin> I wish xchat detected splits (more than N joins/splits in a row) and collapsed them in its scrollback
Dec 16 16:19:49 <mgedmin> Milo-, gtk for maemo 5, qt for the upcoming maemo 6
Dec 16 16:19:58 <mgedmin> you can also use qt for maemo 5 or gtk for maemo 6 if you so desire
Dec 16 16:20:10 <Milo-> mgedmin just ignore all joins/parts/quits
Dec 16 16:20:26 <Milo-> mgedmin okay
Dec 16 16:20:30 <Milo-> need tp
Dec 16 16:20:39 <Milo-> need to learn gtk then
Dec 16 16:20:43 <Milo-> w
Dec 16 16:20:54 <saimon> hi all. I ve reached 95% on my rootfs. my question is. i lost the ability to install non optified apps but can i still install optified ones?
Dec 16 16:21:04 <Milo-> this keyboard is slightly harder than e71's
Dec 16 16:21:20 <SpeedEvil> I like the keyboard mostly.
Dec 16 16:21:27 <SpeedEvil> Though I have not had a similar sized device
Dec 16 16:22:45 <Milo-> hard to reach / and first 5 numbers
Dec 16 16:22:57 <Milo-> and -
Dec 16 16:23:24 <mgedmin> saimon, you need at least _some_ free space in / so that apt/dpkg can rewrite their "database" files
Dec 16 16:24:08 <Milo-> I got 25mb
Dec 16 16:24:13 <Milo-> sounds small
Dec 16 16:24:41 <mgedmin> oooh, you rich person!
Dec 16 16:24:49 <mgedmin> I had about 3 megs left on my old n900
Dec 16 16:25:17 <mgedmin> well, the log-structured filesystem used on the n[89x0 is a bit weird: it does garbage collection in background/on reboot
Dec 16 16:25:25 <mgedmin> if you delete a lot of files, it takes a while for the free space to appear
Dec 16 16:25:36 <timeless_mbp> and files only die if no one is using them
Dec 16 16:25:39 <timeless_mbp> which is often not the case
Dec 16 16:25:46 <timeless_mbp> (gtk theme icon cache!)
Dec 16 16:26:09 <mgedmin> I restored from backup on my new N900, tried to install all the apps
Dec 16 16:26:10 <mgedmin> ran out of space
Dec 16 16:26:16 <mgedmin> then apt-get removed half of them
Dec 16 16:26:19 <mgedmin> apt said it would free 28 megs
Dec 16 16:26:30 <mgedmin> df said I had 2.5 megs free when apt was done
Dec 16 16:26:37 <mgedmin> reboot -> suddenly I have 49 megs free
Dec 16 16:26:57 <mgedmin> some of the apps were optified, so I dunno how much of those 28 apt's megs were in root
Dec 16 16:27:09 <mgedmin> also, apt tends to lie about the size of python packages
Dec 16 16:27:25 <timeless_mbp> my impression is that sizes are purely advisory
Dec 16 16:27:25 <mgedmin> and ubifs compresses data, so accurate free space calculations are basically impossible
Dec 16 16:27:39 <timeless_mbp> plus the rootfs includes compression
Dec 16 16:27:40 <Milo-> has anyone optified their maemo maps yet?
Dec 16 16:27:49 <timeless_mbp> Milo-: what's the point?
Dec 16 16:27:55 <timeless_mbp> maps the data lives in vfat
Dec 16 16:28:05 <Milo-> 10 mb out of rootfs
Dec 16 16:28:07 <timeless_mbp> that's how it's possible to use the nokia maps downloader from windows
Dec 16 16:28:26 <timeless_mbp> oh
Dec 16 16:28:32 <Milo-> don't have windows
Dec 16 16:28:39 <Milo-> don't care for windows
Dec 16 16:28:43 <timeless_mbp> Milo-: does that include the maps localization stuff? :)
Dec 16 16:28:47 <Milo-> windows can burn in hell
Dec 16 16:28:56 <timeless_mbp> if you want space, i'd suggest trashing all the non english+your language locales
Dec 16 16:29:02 <timeless_mbp> or optifying that
Dec 16 16:29:05 <Milo-> timeless_mbp just the usr share maemo maps
Dec 16 16:29:37 <AbstractW> Whats the status of a google maps vs ovi maps?
Dec 16 16:30:04 <SpeedEvil> google maps app does not exist
Dec 16 16:30:07 <SpeedEvil> the website 'works'
Dec 16 16:30:10 <Milo-> weirdly. ovi maps actually worked
Dec 16 16:30:13 <AbstractW> heh.
Dec 16 16:30:18 <Milo-> unlike in e71
Dec 16 16:30:43 <SpeedEvil> ovi maps has worked for me mostly
Dec 16 16:30:46 <Ceron> how to check size of rootfs
Dec 16 16:30:53 <Ceron> im intrested to know if im filling it up
Dec 16 16:30:59 <SpeedEvil> it's about ->    <- this big
Dec 16 16:31:02 <SpeedEvil> more seriously.
Dec 16 16:31:05 <Milo-> Ceron xterm df -h
Dec 16 16:31:14 <SpeedEvil> there is a 'diskspace' app in extras-devel
Dec 16 16:31:22 <SpeedEvil> which is pretty idiot proof
Dec 16 16:31:35 <Milo-> so is df
Dec 16 16:31:38 <SpeedEvil> true
Dec 16 16:31:50 <mgedmin> also useful: stat -f /
Dec 16 16:31:56 <mgedmin> df says 0 when there's really a few megs left
Dec 16 16:32:04 <SpeedEvil> dumpfs!
Dec 16 16:32:05 <mgedmin> the old "reserved for root" trick
Dec 16 16:32:06 <SpeedEvil> :)
Dec 16 16:33:32 <mgedmin> I want an app that (a) goes through all user/* apps, (b) computes which non-user/ libraries are used by those apps and could be removed if that app is uninstalled, (c) for each app computes how much rootfs space that app would free if uninstalled
Dec 16 16:33:46 <mgedmin> for bonus points, (d) have an uninstall button/menu command
Dec 16 16:34:07 <SpeedEvil> Also a way to report if your device won't boot afterwards.
Dec 16 16:34:18 <Milo-> mgedmin du + rm :)
Dec 16 16:34:23 <mgedmin> user/* apps!
Dec 16 16:34:34 <mgedmin> you can't brick your device by removing packages from the user/* section
Dec 16 16:34:45 <mgedmin> unless someone does an rm -rf / in their postrm script by mistake
Dec 16 16:35:01 * mgedmin has a pytohn script that does (a) and (c), but ignores (b)
Dec 16 16:35:02 <Milo-> I wish I could see timestamps using ssh+irssi
Dec 16 16:35:12 <SpeedEvil> Milo: you can
Dec 16 16:35:13 <mgedmin> so app that depends on many libraries gets the size undersetimated
Dec 16 16:35:20 <SpeedEvil> Milo: you can ask it to do that
Dec 16 16:35:25 <mgedmin> s/set/est/
Dec 16 16:35:26 <infobot> mgedmin meant: so app that depends on many libraries gets the size underestimated
Dec 16 16:35:37 <SpeedEvil> milo: or at least you can with bitchX, I assume irssi can do it too
Dec 16 16:35:37 <Milo-> SpeedEvil how?
Dec 16 16:35:41 * fcrozat saw some ubifs corruption on syslog
Dec 16 16:35:47 <fcrozat> is it known / normal ?
Dec 16 16:35:58 <SpeedEvil> Milo-: some /set I'd imagine
Dec 16 16:36:04 <Milo-> eh, they work
Dec 16 16:36:10 <Milo-> but in my maemo.
Dec 16 16:36:21 <SpeedEvil> http://irssi.org/documentation/faq
Dec 16 16:36:23 <Milo-> they don't, wrong color somehow
Dec 16 16:36:26 <SpeedEvil> ah
Dec 16 16:36:34 <mgedmin> fcrozat, did your tablet crash?
Dec 16 16:36:41 <SpeedEvil> you should also be able to set the colour I'd imagine
Dec 16 16:37:08 <fcrozat> mgedmin: no. But I have ldconfig crashing with "bus error" . It seems to started when python got installed by omweather
Dec 16 16:37:18 <mgedmin> interesting
Dec 16 16:37:22 <Milo-> I keep.pressing enter when I try to press bakckspace
Dec 16 16:37:27 <fcrozat> not sure it is related
Dec 16 16:37:28 <Milo-> spee	that is done with themes and I like my theme
Dec 16 16:37:38 <Milo-> SpeedEvil even
Dec 16 16:38:07 <mgedmin> whoa/wtf
Dec 16 16:38:13 <mgedmin> so, I have two n900's
Dec 16 16:38:17 <ml-N900> hmm
Dec 16 16:38:23 <Milo-> maemo's xtermMs colour support isn't extensive enough
Dec 16 16:38:28 <mgedmin> lacking fantasy for hostnames I named one mg-n900 and the other mg-n900-2
Dec 16 16:38:32 <mgedmin> both have avahi
Dec 16 16:38:32 <Milo-> xterm's
Dec 16 16:38:36 <mgedmin> the first one is offline now
Dec 16 16:38:36 <ml-N900> disabling off mode seems to have stopped the reboots
Dec 16 16:38:40 <Milo-> lots of typos
Dec 16 16:38:48 <mgedmin> the second one advertises itself over mDNS as mg-n900-3
Dec 16 16:38:50 <mgedmin> why 3???
Dec 16 16:38:52 <anpr> heya
Dec 16 16:39:00 <mgedmin> some magic autoincrement
Dec 16 16:39:11 <AbstractW> Kein Mittleid Für Die Mehrheit.
Dec 16 16:40:13 <AbstractW> mgedmin: Why do you need more than one N900?
Dec 16 16:40:26 <redeeman> one for each hand ofc!
Dec 16 16:43:04 <arachnist> AbstractW: cluster :)
Dec 16 16:45:50 <Lantizia> Hey, should debian arm packages work? or do they have to be armel?
Dec 16 16:47:12 <Lantizia> Hey, should debian arm packages work? or do they have to be armel?
Dec 16 16:47:22 <Lantizia> net split?
Dec 16 16:47:24 <GAN900> Lantizia, it's armel and, in general, no, they wont work.
Dec 16 16:47:30 <Lantizia> ok :D
Dec 16 16:47:41 <ruskie> Lantizia, rebuild them in scratchbox :)
Dec 16 16:48:00 <Lantizia> GAN900 see I'd like to use axel... but etch didn't do armel and lenny's version needs later version of something
Dec 16 16:48:11 <Lantizia> ruskie: have a nice linky to show me how?
Dec 16 16:48:21 <SpeedEvil> Milo-: err - no
Dec 16 16:48:25 <SpeedEvil> Milo-: you modify the irssi config - you can setup UI colours
Dec 16 16:48:29 <SpeedEvil> edit the theme maybe?
Dec 16 16:49:15 <ruskie> Lantizia, should be something on t.m.o
Dec 16 16:49:28 <tbf> tigert: konttori: is the melody theme available for download?
Dec 16 16:49:43 <mgedmin> to be fair I have an mDNS reflector running on the gateway between wireless and ethernet LANs...
Dec 16 16:49:50 <Lantizia> t.m.o?
Dec 16 16:49:50 <ruskie> Lantizia, trying to find it
Dec 16 16:50:17 <mgedmin> Lantizia, freenode is being DDoSed, heavy netsplits predicted with possible rain
Dec 16 16:50:45 <SpeedEvil> Or snow in colder areas.
Dec 16 16:51:20 * mgedmin glances at the -14°C displayed in his weather applet and shivers
Dec 16 16:51:41 <tbf> boah! so awesome. i can by a botnet for 10 rubels and DDoS an IRC network
Dec 16 16:51:44 * SpeedEvil glances at the indoor thermometer reading 6.5C.
Dec 16 16:51:52 <ruskie> Lantizia, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37144 read through that it should apply for the rest
Dec 16 16:51:59 <tbf> awesome those evil h4x0r k1dz those days
Dec 16 16:52:13 <ruskie> Lantizia, talk.maemo.org :)
Dec 16 16:52:45 <SpeedEvil> Alas, not inaccurate.
Dec 16 16:52:54 * SpeedEvil is having cashflow problems ATM.
Dec 16 16:53:01 <SpeedEvil> electric blankets++
Dec 16 16:53:13 <mgedmin> ouchouchouchouchouch
Dec 16 16:53:55 <Milo-> SpeedEvil my irssi's timestamp colour is gray
Dec 16 16:54:08 <Milo-> and that colour isn't showed in maemo's xterm
Dec 16 16:54:13 <tbf> mgedmin: don't scare me that the freeze has reached baltic states already...
Dec 16 16:54:40 <tbf> ...that's less than 1000 km remaining and weather passes poland's flatlands quickly
Dec 16 16:54:41 <SpeedEvil> Milo-: that is an issue - but the seperate one is you might alter all the grays into a colour which renders - rather than waiting on a fix to oso-term
Dec 16 16:54:45 <Milo-> GPE calendar is nice, except its UI isn't good for maemo :/
Dec 16 16:55:25 <mgedmin> what's the command to display all colours in an xterm?  I think Eterm came with a shell script for that...
Dec 16 16:56:14 <Milo-> write a printf("\033[22;30mHello, world!\n"); printf("\033[22;31mHello, world!\n")
Dec 16 16:56:37 <fcrozat> same ldconfig crash after a reboot :(
Dec 16 16:57:28 <Lantizia> ruskie: ok read your 8 step guide.. am I doing that on the N900 itself?
Dec 16 16:57:31 <_berto_> Jaffa: vagalume 0.8.1 is out, this one should work for those of you without a subscription - http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/v/vagalume/
Dec 16 16:58:01 <Milo-> Micha_ you can test the colours by incrementing that 30m from 29 to 40 or so :)
Dec 16 16:58:07 <mgedmin> grey on white is visible in osso-xterm, but barely
Dec 16 16:58:15 * mgedmin did vim +'ru syntax/colortest.vim'
Dec 16 16:58:16 <Milo-> I use black background
Dec 16 16:58:39 <Milo-> can't stand black on white
Dec 16 16:58:41 <mgedmin> darkgray on black -- invisible for me
Dec 16 16:59:09 <mgedmin> all the colours look rather hard to see on a black background
Dec 16 16:59:16 <mgedmin> good for me that I use a white one ;)
Dec 16 17:01:13 <tbf> Milo-: cellar dweller :-p
Dec 16 17:01:16 <AndrewFBlack> _berto_, I wonder if it will fix my problem of network conection erros
Dec 16 17:01:53 <Milo-> tbf white console is as artistic as umm
Dec 16 17:02:00 <Milo-> well, obviously I'm not an artist..
Dec 16 17:02:04 <_berto_> AndrewFBlack: don't know, just try it and tell me if it doesn't work
Dec 16 17:02:12 <Milo-> so lets say dog biting your nuts off..
Dec 16 17:02:23 <Milo-> it sounds equally painful
Dec 16 17:02:26 <AndrewFBlack> _berto_, ok I was having the problem with both last.fm and libre.fm
Dec 16 17:03:25 <_berto_> AndrewFBlack: then that's a different issue :?
Dec 16 17:03:33 <_berto_> AndrewFBlack: do other last.fm clients work for you ?
Dec 16 17:03:58 <AndrewFBlack> are there other last.fm clients on phone
Dec 16 17:04:03 <Milo-> the vim you can download and install from extras is hardly vim
Dec 16 17:04:06 <Milo-> it's more like vi :/
Dec 16 17:04:21 <mgedmin> hell, no!
Dec 16 17:04:35 <mgedmin> Milo-, the vim from extras is full-fledged vim with all kinds of goodies
Dec 16 17:04:44 <mgedmin> make sure you start it as vim and not vi, though
Dec 16 17:04:51 <Milo-> alias vi='vim'
Dec 16 17:04:53 <Milo-> ._·
Dec 16 17:04:53 <mgedmin> or you'll get the busybox vi that came preinstalled with the os
Dec 16 17:05:19 <Milo-> but yes, started with vim and backspace won't work, (replace mode-like behaviour)
Dec 16 17:05:25 <mgedmin> duh, that's vim
Dec 16 17:05:27 <mgedmin> :set nocompatible
Dec 16 17:05:31 <mgedmin> if you don't want it to emulate vi
Dec 16 17:05:34 <mgedmin> and set bs=2
Dec 16 17:05:35 <mgedmin> etc.
Dec 16 17:05:42 <Milo-> oh yeah it has no .vimrc :P
Dec 16 17:05:44 <mgedmin> some distros ship /etc/vim/vimrc and change vim's defaults
Dec 16 17:05:49 <Milo-> gentoo gives those automatically :)
Dec 16 17:05:50 <_berto_> AndrewFBlack: I mean a desktop client
Dec 16 17:05:53 <mgedmin> then people get used to that distro's customizations
Dec 16 17:05:59 <Milo-> ^^
Dec 16 17:06:05 <mgedmin> and become confused when they try upstream vim
Dec 16 17:06:18 <AndrewFBlack> _berto_, the website works from my desktops
Dec 16 17:06:24 <Milo-> see..
Dec 16 17:06:25 <Milo-> :)
Dec 16 17:06:26 <jeremiah> vi == sign of the beast
Dec 16 17:06:34 <Milo-> lets quickly pastebin my vimrc
Dec 16 17:06:35 <Milo-> and wget it
Dec 16 17:06:54 <Milo-> oh
Dec 16 17:06:56 <mgedmin> scp rules
Dec 16 17:06:57 <Milo-> don't have wget.
Dec 16 17:07:02 <mgedmin> it's in extras
Dec 16 17:07:02 <mgedmin> iirc
Dec 16 17:07:42 <mgedmin> and by "extras" I mean ...
Dec 16 17:07:49 <mgedmin> extras-devel
Dec 16 17:07:57 <mgedmin> it's also in fremantle/tools
Dec 16 17:08:45 <Milo-> :P
Dec 16 17:08:46 <Milo-> lots of script in .vimrc
Dec 16 17:08:52 <Milo-> I bet that won't work
Dec 16 17:12:39 <Milo-> vim works :)
Dec 16 17:13:01 <Milo-> now it's a tool, as it's supposed to be
Dec 16 17:13:41 <ruskie> Lantizia, no
Dec 16 17:18:18 <tbf> i wonder how to easily find a free FM band for the FM transmitter
Dec 16 17:18:36 <AbstractW> From what I hear, the FM transmitter is not so good.
Dec 16 17:18:44 <tbf> berlin has way too many FM stations. seemingly every 0.3 MHz there is one
Dec 16 17:18:55 <wazd_n800> re-heya all
Dec 16 17:19:09 <AndrewFBlack> _berto_, any idea on network connection error
Dec 16 17:19:28 <tbf> AbstractW: no idea. IF you found a free band it sounds great
Dec 16 17:19:58 <tbf> AbstractW: better than the commercial FM stations here...
Dec 16 17:20:14 <tbf> ...but that could be 'cause the FM stations are packed too densely
Dec 16 17:20:53 <mgedmin> yeah, I wasn't thrilled by the FM transmitter
Dec 16 17:20:55 <AbstractW> Heh.
Dec 16 17:20:57 <AbstractW> Wow.
Dec 16 17:20:59 <_berto_> AndrewFBlack: it's very strange if it fails on both cases
Dec 16 17:21:05 <_berto_> AndrewFBlack: can you run it from an xterm ?
Dec 16 17:21:05 <mgedmin> aren't FM stations usually spaced 0.5 MHz apart?
Dec 16 17:21:18 <_berto_> mgedmin: not necessarily
Dec 16 17:21:24 <tbf> mgedmin: probably in sane areas, but not here in berlin
Dec 16 17:21:31 <mgedmin> :)
Dec 16 17:21:39 <_berto_> not here (Galicia) either
Dec 16 17:22:12 <AndrewFBlack> _berto_, application loads from xterm but still get error when I try to play something
Dec 16 17:22:14 <mgedmin> some kind of reverse-autotuning (find a frequency as far as possible from any fm station) would be nice
Dec 16 17:22:34 <_berto_> but can you see the error messages on the xterm?
Dec 16 17:22:56 <tbf> mgedmin: after a first scan it still should check for the frequency with minimum noise
Dec 16 17:23:12 <AndrewFBlack> not showing any
Dec 16 17:23:28 <Lantizia> ruskie: so it needs to be done on a debian etch machine?
Dec 16 17:23:33 <AbstractW> GUI development possible on pymaemo like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PF3Jp1MNnc :)
Dec 16 17:23:39 <Lantizia> ruskie: how does it know to compile for maemo 5 dependancies then?
Dec 16 17:24:01 <ruskie> Lantizia, no on a system with the SDK running :)
Dec 16 17:24:02 <tbf> mgedmin: the closer you come to berlin's border the more noise from stations from brandenburg you get...
Dec 16 17:24:02 <_berto_> then I don't know
Dec 16 17:24:13 <ruskie> Lantizia, inside of the SDK
Dec 16 17:24:13 <tbf> maybe just the output power of the FMTX is too low?
Dec 16 17:24:21 <tbf> (damn regulations in that case)
Dec 16 17:24:24 <Lantizia> ruskie: ah so you enter some kind of SDK prompt?
Dec 16 17:24:36 <Lantizia> ruskie: not installed the SDK yet - stuck at work on a windows prompt
Dec 16 17:24:41 <AndrewFBlack> wait I sudo gainroot then reopened it and I got a unable to intialize DBUS when i opened it
Dec 16 17:25:01 <_berto_> don't know if it works as root
Dec 16 17:25:07 <_berto_> you should launch it with 'user'
Dec 16 17:25:11 <pupnik> mgedmin: great idea
Dec 16 17:25:13 <jebba> NOTE! WELL! LOOK!  You will get a  brick if you reboot 17 times without powering off completely!!! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37431
Dec 16 17:25:27 <mgedmin> jebba, is there a bug in bugs.maemo.org?
Dec 16 17:25:39 <pupnik> let's see if fm tuner has a signal quality report
Dec 16 17:25:40 <_berto_> what ?
Dec 16 17:25:48 <jebba> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350#c39   https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019
Dec 16 17:25:51 <povbot> Bug 6350: getbootstate bricks the device after 50 reboots if there are no normal boots in between them
Dec 16 17:25:52 <povbot> Bug 7019: Release source code of "getbootstate"
Dec 16 17:26:11 <pupnik> ty for warning
Dec 16 17:26:12 <AndrewFBlack> ok lanchingas user doesn´t show message
Dec 16 17:26:30 <mgedmin> whoa, fun bug
Dec 16 17:28:04 <yuizy> 19:18:13 <@hequ> the item and plus the shipment to my Wife in Africa.Mail me
Dec 16 17:28:48 <yuizy> oops
Dec 16 17:28:52 <yuizy> :P
Dec 16 17:30:35 <ruskie> Lantizia, something like that
Dec 16 17:30:59 <LuciusMare> aw,man
Dec 16 17:31:09 <LuciusMare> i still keep reading about new and new android devices
Dec 16 17:31:19 <LuciusMare> i am rethinking my decision to buy n900
Dec 16 17:31:41 <AbstractW> Whys that, LuciusMare?
Dec 16 17:31:46 <AbstractW> Just read about the nexus one?
Dec 16 17:32:09 <AbstractW> The grass will always be greener on the other side.
Dec 16 17:32:26 <ruskie> that nexus one reminds me of a palm device
Dec 16 17:32:37 <LuciusMare> yup,and also tablet with android,not mentioning motodroid.
Dec 16 17:32:39 <ruskie> seriously looks like a palm device
Dec 16 17:33:14 <AbstractW> I'd rather have a nokia phone, than a google phone.
Dec 16 17:33:16 <jebba> android is lame java blah
Dec 16 17:33:40 <jebba> this thing is like running ubuntu practically (including non-free shiite which breaks things).
Dec 16 17:33:41 <AbstractW> I'll take python over java, please.
Dec 16 17:33:54 * jebba notes the 17 reboot BRICK is part of non-free code.
Dec 16 17:34:45 <wazd_n801> I'm thinking of ordering Pandora)
Dec 16 17:34:45 <AbstractW> You're kidding... pymaemo has non-free components?! ><
Dec 16 17:34:52 <LuciusMare> they released a sdk that makes you able to code in native code
Dec 16 17:35:15 <wazd_n801> LuciusMare, go and  buy  android
Dec 16 17:35:29 <jebba> AbstractW: i dont know of anything non-free in pymaeom
Dec 16 17:35:37 <wazd_n801> LuciusMare, what else do you want
Dec 16 17:35:38 <igagis_> LuciusMare: with this SDK you can only code some abstract algorithms. You cannot access any peripherial devices etc...
Dec 16 17:35:48 <LuciusMare> oh
Dec 16 17:35:53 <AbstractW> jebba: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/installation_device.html they say you need the non-free repository component ><
Dec 16 17:35:56 <LuciusMare> i rethink my decision of rethinking my decision.
Dec 16 17:35:58 <lardman> evening
Dec 16 17:36:09 * RST38h yawns
Dec 16 17:36:18 <crashanddie> eveng lardman
Dec 16 17:36:18 <AbstractW> Why is garage.maemo.org so slow today?
Dec 16 17:36:23 <lardman> hey crashanddie
Dec 16 17:36:24 <igagis_> I worked with android on my recent job, can't say I like android... after that
Dec 16 17:36:32 <lardman> AbstractW: s/today/always
Dec 16 17:36:43 <Guest89658> AbstractW: you don't need it , it is just the "standard line"  :) PyMaemo does not use anything from there
Dec 16 17:36:44 <crashanddie> AbstractW: solar flares are interfering with the magnetic poles and causing major traffic issues on the backbones
Dec 16 17:37:09 <AbstractW> hehehe.
Dec 16 17:37:57 <AbstractW> I assume I should be using the Maemo SDK Virtual Image, 2nd Edition?
Dec 16 17:38:48 <AbstractW> Is garage.maemo.org running off of an N900? :P
Dec 16 17:39:04 <lardman> AbstractW: 770
Dec 16 17:39:13 <lardman> actually two of them
Dec 16 17:39:14 <AbstractW> I knew it! :)
Dec 16 17:41:31 <_berto_> lardman: no, no
Dec 16 17:41:44 <_berto_> lardman: they upgraded to an n810 2 years ago
Dec 16 17:41:52 <AbstractW> hah.
Dec 16 17:42:07 <_berto_> but today is specially slow
Dec 16 17:43:02 <lardman> ah I see :)
Dec 16 17:43:26 * lardman wonders if the two retired 770s could also be brought online
Dec 16 17:43:29 <pupnik> igagis_: can you explain a little what you didn't like?
Dec 16 17:43:31 <Anupras> hello guys, i have 1 question
Dec 16 17:43:43 <Anupras> i was using vodafone connection
Dec 16 17:43:47 <samppa> yes maemo.org is currently veeery slow, slower than usual :)
Dec 16 17:44:10 <Anupras> and when i pressed to check available connection, my n900 showed me quickly available wlan and vodafone
Dec 16 17:44:35 <Anupras> i tried to connect one wlan connection, got connected and disconnected, because of bad signal after about 1 minute
Dec 16 17:44:41 <RST38h> ohmygod theyhavegotjavainstalled
Dec 16 17:44:46 <RST38h> we are all gonna die.
Dec 16 17:45:03 <Anupras> and now it takes a while for n900 to check connection and it finds only vodafone and still after a while
Dec 16 17:45:08 <Anupras> what happened?
Dec 16 17:45:11 <wazd_n801> woo, my ddp n900 is finaly on its way to someone)
Dec 16 17:45:18 <igagis_> pupnik: well, the opinion formed after working with android is that it is very well designed to implement all sorts of menus, dialogs, etc. But implementing some custom task is hard or even impossible
Dec 16 17:45:22 <samppa> RST38h: i red that you also had some problems with libpulse in extras ?
Dec 16 17:45:37 <wazd_n801> RST38h, ponies!
Dec 16 17:45:53 <igagis_> pupnik: for example, I have no idea how to implement app similar to my Theremin app for maemo on android
Dec 16 17:46:15 <pupnik> aha, ty!
Dec 16 17:46:40 <RST38h> samppa: Yea, somebody keworked libpulse0*test*
Dec 16 17:46:47 <RST38h> Is it back?
Dec 16 17:46:57 <wazd_n801> android is a sister of WebOS
Dec 16 17:47:09 <samppa> RST38h: well my package (mplayer) says it has missing depencies now
Dec 16 17:47:19 <Anupras> guys anyone knows ?
Dec 16 17:47:20 <wazd_n801> speaking of UI
Dec 16 17:47:31 <samppa> RST38h: shouldn't libpulse be part of SDK ?
Dec 16 17:47:39 <nhg1> Does anyone know if Maemo has packages needed to decode AAC audio?  (such as gstreamer plugins for FFMPEG/MAD etc).
Dec 16 17:48:11 <lardman> X-Fade: you about?
Dec 16 17:49:41 <lardman> does anyone know who pushed fort77 to diablo-extras-dev ?
Dec 16 17:49:52 <lardman> January 2009
Dec 16 17:49:59 * lardman wonders if it was him
Dec 16 17:49:59 <_berto_> nhg1: there's the nokiaaacdec GStreamer plugin
Dec 16 17:50:14 <_berto_> nhg1: so I imagine that's a yes ;)
Dec 16 17:50:33 <Anupras> can anyone help me  a lit ?
Dec 16 17:50:44 <nhg1> _berto_: thanks...is there some site where I can look at these packages?  maemo newb.
Dec 16 17:50:47 <mgedmin> how can I see the reboot counter?
Dec 16 17:51:07 <jebba> mgedmin: very good question. Let me know if you find out.
Dec 16 17:52:38 <RST38h> samppa: I think they screwed it up in the sdk somehow
Dec 16 17:52:52 <_berto_> nhg1: http://pastebin.com/mf2a89d9
Dec 16 17:53:00 <RST38h> samppa: I am not entirely sure what the problem is though. May need to catch jeremiah.
Dec 16 17:53:35 <Ceron> any new intresting map application
Dec 16 17:53:37 <Ceron> for the n900
Dec 16 17:53:38 <Ceron> O_o
Dec 16 17:53:44 <Ceron> like a navigator program
Dec 16 17:53:52 <Ceron> Maep = awsome map software
Dec 16 17:53:59 <Ceron> works great on the n900
Dec 16 17:54:14 <ifreq> widget is also nice
Dec 16 17:54:14 <ifreq> :)
Dec 16 17:54:34 <samppa> RST38h: ok
Dec 16 17:55:34 <Corsac> woouuh
Dec 16 17:55:35 <Corsac> got mine
Dec 16 17:56:10 <mgedmin> jebba, cat /var/lib/dsme/boot_count
Dec 16 17:56:29 <Corsac> hmh, the battery cover looks hard to remove
Dec 16 17:56:40 <ifreq> Corsac: just rtfm
Dec 16 17:56:41 <ifreq> :)
Dec 16 17:56:54 <nhg1> _berto_: didn't see the AAC plugin on your pastebin...where would I need to get it from?
Dec 16 17:57:34 <_berto_> nhg1: it's in the gstreamer0.10-nokia-speech package
Dec 16 17:57:35 <Corsac> ifreq: the fm only says to put the finger in the hole :)
Dec 16 17:57:37 <_berto_> nhg1: it's closed-source
Dec 16 17:57:44 <nhg1> oh ok
Dec 16 17:57:58 <mgedmin> Corsac, yep, the cover is very unfriendly
Dec 16 17:58:23 <nhg1> yes...was looking for an opensource plugin like ffmpeg or mad....I thought they're standard gstreamer packages...but not sure
Dec 16 17:58:49 <_berto_> nhg1: those ones are not installed
Dec 16 17:58:50 <ifreq> Corsac: heh okay :)
Dec 16 17:59:07 <orbarron> _berto_: does mer have a solution for this...
Dec 16 17:59:08 <nhg1> _berto_: was that listing from your N900?
Dec 16 17:59:22 <Corsac> I'm scared to break the cover
Dec 16 18:00:28 <guido_g> hi all, any idea where to find the chat logs (history)?
Dec 16 18:02:16 <crashanddie> guido_g: check the /topic?
Dec 16 18:03:28 <lcuk> Corsac, taking the back cover off?
Dec 16 18:03:55 <Corsac> yep
Dec 16 18:03:56 <lcuk> get your stylus, shove it into the thumbslot thingy and twist a bit, feels less like you are snapping it
Dec 16 18:04:04 <guido_g> crashanddie: sorry, i've been a bit unclear, where to find the files in the filesystem where the chat logs are stored
Dec 16 18:04:05 <Corsac> yeah, it's done
Dec 16 18:04:09 <Corsac> I was a bit scare
Dec 16 18:04:11 <lcuk> i shove it about 3 inches in and lid totally pops off
Dec 16 18:04:48 <Corsac> ok, the nokia hands video is scary indeed :)
Dec 16 18:05:28 <ifreq> Corsac: it can be changed to anything you want tho
Dec 16 18:05:29 <ifreq> =)
Dec 16 18:05:31 <_berto_> nhg1: no, not from mine
Dec 16 18:05:40 <_berto_> nhg1: someone else pasted it there
Dec 16 18:07:50 <Anupras> guys
Dec 16 18:08:52 <Anupras> i was using 3gconnection and today tried wifi, got connected and disconnected after 1 min (bad signal) after that it takes a while for search connections and it doesnt find any wlan connection just 3g
Dec 16 18:09:10 <Anupras> and even to find voda 3g connection it takes a while
Dec 16 18:09:14 <Anupras> any clues why?
Dec 16 18:10:11 <nhg1> _berto_: ok thx
Dec 16 18:11:28 <Anupras> oh....
Dec 16 18:15:33 <nhg1> Maemo has a package repository with a listing of all the packages available?  Is it the maemo garage?
Dec 16 18:18:05 <Jaffa> nhg1: http://maemo.org/packages/
Dec 16 18:19:30 <Jaffa> _berto_: Cool
Dec 16 18:20:08 <fnordianslip> woohoo.  conky now in extras-devel.  it lives
Dec 16 18:21:11 <ifreq> goodie
Dec 16 18:21:30 <ifreq> i could move my test conkycf to phone now..
Dec 16 18:21:58 <fnordianslip> ifreq: are you gonna try it?  please first try copying the example conf from /opt
Dec 16 18:22:18 <fnordianslip> and using that.  it does use the droid fonts
Dec 16 18:22:38 <ifreq> ah ok. ill test it later
Dec 16 18:22:52 <fnordianslip> and it doesn't yet work as a widget, just standalone app
Dec 16 18:22:58 <mgedmin> did anybody ever find app manager's categories useful?
Dec 16 18:23:05 <mgedmin> every time I try to guess, I guess wrong
Dec 16 18:23:18 <mgedmin> e.g. now I'm looking for crash-reporter, thought it'd be in System, alas no
Dec 16 18:23:26 <mgedmin> no clue where to look for it (Other? Utilities? Programming?)
Dec 16 18:24:17 <mgedmin> Other, apparently
Dec 16 18:24:25 <mgedmin> although I don't know which one of the two "Other" categories
Dec 16 18:25:15 <Corsac> wow, 42-11
Dec 16 18:25:17 <Corsac> that's old
Dec 16 18:28:51 <aspidites> lol @ conky on N900
Dec 16 18:30:02 <fnordianslip> conky - http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/screenshot07.png
Dec 16 18:31:04 <toggles_2> lol
Dec 16 18:32:12 <Ceron> rootfs 54.3m available
Dec 16 18:32:12 <Ceron> :P
Dec 16 18:32:15 <Ceron> is that good?
Dec 16 18:32:26 <fnordianslip> better than mine
Dec 16 18:33:09 <Ceron> i have used 2 gigs of 27gb :D
Dec 16 18:33:10 <ml-N900> 67.6!
Dec 16 18:33:18 <fnordianslip> of course i can't install my conky deb from the repo cos its buggered right now
Dec 16 18:33:23 <Ceron> on /dev/mmcblk0p1
Dec 16 18:33:43 <Ceron> ml-N900: installed any aps?
Dec 16 18:33:47 <Ceron> apps*
Dec 16 18:33:47 <fnordianslip> i've used 25GB of mine
Dec 16 18:33:58 <Ceron> LOL :P
Dec 16 18:33:59 <ml-N900> xchat, ruby, vnc
Dec 16 18:34:09 <Ceron> is there any rdp client
Dec 16 18:34:11 <mgedmin> cool
Dec 16 18:34:13 <Ceron> for n900
Dec 16 18:34:28 <mgedmin> Ceron, I've seen rdesktop in one of the extras variants
Dec 16 18:34:28 <ml-N900> there is, I believe
Dec 16 18:34:38 <Ceron> is it optified
Dec 16 18:34:43 <mgedmin> extras-devel
Dec 16 18:34:44 <Ceron> dont want to use more of my rootfs :\
Dec 16 18:34:53 <mgedmin> I don't have it installed, so dunno
Dec 16 18:35:04 <mgedmin> and you've got 54 megs available, which is incredibly many
Dec 16 18:35:27 <mgedmin> I've been living with 3.6 megs free for *weeks*
Dec 16 18:36:03 * Micha_ pokes garage
Dec 16 18:36:09 * jebba900 in taxi. This thing rules.
Dec 16 18:36:23 <Ceron> mgedmin: heh you probally installed
Dec 16 18:36:27 <Ceron> alot for devels-extras
Dec 16 18:36:30 <Ceron> from
Dec 16 18:36:42 <Ceron> non optified stuff
Dec 16 18:36:46 <aspidites> extras-devel*
Dec 16 18:36:47 <Ceron> eating your device :P
Dec 16 18:37:20 <mgedmin> oh yes
Dec 16 18:37:22 <jebba900> mgedmin, you have brick? U try my R&d mode recover?
Dec 16 18:37:49 <Ceron> does the n900 got any temperature sensors?
Dec 16 18:37:50 <mgedmin> in fact I had so many, that when I made a backup of the loaned n900, and tried to restore it on my new n900, the app installer ran out of space in the middle
Dec 16 18:37:51 <Ceron> :)
Dec 16 18:37:58 <mgedmin> wasted the whole morning
Dec 16 18:38:02 <mgedmin> sadly, no
Dec 16 18:38:09 <Ceron> no temp sensors :l?
Dec 16 18:38:12 <mgedmin> I want a temperature sensor and a magnetic compass in my n900!
Dec 16 18:38:23 <mgedmin> jebba900, no, I haven't bricked any n900s yet
Dec 16 18:38:24 <lcuk> and ponies
Dec 16 18:38:25 <Ceron> i want a real gyro compass
Dec 16 18:38:46 <Ceron> with a 500kg ball spinning inside the n900
Dec 16 18:38:46 <lcuk> anti-grav field
Dec 16 18:38:52 <jebba900> ah good
Dec 16 18:39:14 <Ceron> vill keep my n900 aligned properlly!
Dec 16 18:39:22 <jebba900> a lighter
Dec 16 18:39:24 <Ceron> powerball is a must for n900
Dec 16 18:39:35 <mgedmin> btw accelerometer is not a good way to toggle portrait/landscape
Dec 16 18:39:42 <mgedmin> conboy keeps rotating when I don't want it to
Dec 16 18:39:52 <mgedmin> and the rotation animation is TOO DAMN SLOW
Dec 16 18:39:56 <RST38h> anyone knows if the Enigma game is optified?
Dec 16 18:40:05 <RST38h> mgedminL admit it, you just want a tricorder
Dec 16 18:40:17 <Ceron> lol
Dec 16 18:40:18 <mgedmin> RST38h, I've never seen the original Star Trek series
Dec 16 18:40:19 <mgedmin> sadly
Dec 16 18:40:26 <RST38h> mgedmin: torrent, no?
Dec 16 18:40:35 <RST38h> mgedmin: although I would start with DrWho, really
Dec 16 18:40:38 <mgedmin> apt-get install some-free-time
Dec 16 18:40:39 <Ceron> RST38h wants spock to beam him into the n900
Dec 16 18:40:40 <mgedmin> package not found
Dec 16 18:41:10 <Ceron> mgedmin: you got freetime right now.
Dec 16 18:41:20 <RST38h> mgedmin: StarTrek is a cryptosocialist US scifi
Dec 16 18:41:30 <mgedmin> no, I'm busy wasting time on irc
Dec 16 18:41:38 <mgedmin> watching TV would require more concentration
Dec 16 18:41:42 <redeeman> lol cryptosocialist
Dec 16 18:41:47 <RST38h> mgedmin: DrWho is an endless British Kindzadza =)
Dec 16 18:41:59 <Ceron> watch all 7 seasons of TNG
Dec 16 18:42:06 <Ceron> and all 14 movies
Dec 16 18:42:06 <RST38h> Ceron: No.
Dec 16 18:42:40 <cpscotti> Hello fellas! can someone test accdisplay? its on extras-testing now. It's a graphical tool to view/record/playback accelerometer's data. I fixed all the issues pointed yesterday.. thanks
Dec 16 18:42:42 * mgedmin once watched too many seasons of Babylon 5, and then gave up in the beginning of the last one
Dec 16 18:42:43 <Ceron> picard > kirk
Dec 16 18:43:00 <b0unc3> hello
Dec 16 18:43:05 * mgedmin now imagines what playing back accelerometer's data ought to really mean
Dec 16 18:43:12 <jebba900> cpscotti, sounds cool.
Dec 16 18:43:19 <mgedmin> that'd be a neat trick
Dec 16 18:43:25 <jebba900> test burgerspace too it rules  heh
Dec 16 18:43:33 <mgedmin> have the n900 jump around according to written instructions
Dec 16 18:43:42 <zash> mgedmin: hahaha
Dec 16 18:43:55 <flux> cpscotti, I tried it a few days ago, but it didn't seem to be able to actually save.. should work now?
Dec 16 18:44:23 <flux> such measurements can be nice for prototyping stuff like distance measuring (if they can be done or not)
Dec 16 18:44:34 <b0unc3> someone know which is the replacement of hildon_font_selection_dialog_new() ? (the api docs said it's deprecated now)
Dec 16 18:44:50 <Ceron> how can you meassure distance with accelometer :p
Dec 16 18:45:08 <Stskeeps> simulating a pedometer
Dec 16 18:45:12 <flux> ceron, in theory, you could just integrate the value
Dec 16 18:45:20 <flux> well, pedometer would be something different
Dec 16 18:45:30 <flux> ceron, well, actually you integrate the value to get a speed an integrate that to get a distance..
Dec 16 18:45:36 <Ceron> pedo meter?
Dec 16 18:45:37 <flux> but yeah, it might not be very workable :)
Dec 16 18:46:22 <Ceron> isee :P
Dec 16 18:46:38 <Micha_> Not really - done on the S60 SportsTracker app
Dec 16 18:46:46 <Ceron> n900 should just have an inbuilt laser distance meter dystem
Dec 16 18:46:47 <Ceron> system
Dec 16 18:47:00 <Ceron> thats used in construction work
Dec 16 18:47:07 <flux> ceron, or maybe something really crazy, like satellite navigation system!
Dec 16 18:47:18 <Ceron> thats not precise :0
Dec 16 18:47:34 <lcuk> thats crazy talk, how would they get tape measures all the way upto space
Dec 16 18:47:44 <LuciusMare> wait
Dec 16 18:47:44 <Ceron> lol
Dec 16 18:47:50 <LuciusMare> what is a pedometer?
Dec 16 18:47:58 <lcuk> step counter
Dec 16 18:47:58 <Ceron> stuff for pedos
Dec 16 18:48:01 <Ceron> oh
Dec 16 18:48:10 <LuciusMare> Until now,i just thought its a meter that measures how many pedophiles are near
Dec 16 18:48:22 <Stskeeps> that does exist on the iphone
Dec 16 18:48:24 <LuciusMare> then why it is "pedo" ?
Dec 16 18:48:29 <cpscotti> flux: yes yes.. everything should work now...
Dec 16 18:48:46 <Micha_> From foot
Dec 16 18:48:50 <fnordianslip> like some kind of gaydar?
Dec 16 18:48:53 <Micha_> You're thinking of paedophile
Dec 16 18:48:53 <LuciusMare> foot to pedo?
Dec 16 18:48:53 <cpscotti> jebba900: thanks
Dec 16 18:48:56 <Hiisty> LuciusMare: pedo = pedestrian etc, maybe from latin?
Dec 16 18:49:06 <AndrewFBlack> is garage down?
Dec 16 18:49:07 <LuciusMare> hm
Dec 16 18:49:08 <LuciusMare> maybe
Dec 16 18:49:13 <fnordianslip> downish
Dec 16 18:49:14 <LuciusMare> i didnt know the world pediastran either
Dec 16 18:49:15 <Micha_> AndrewFBlack: No, just veeeeeeery slow
Dec 16 18:49:30 <mgedmin> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/garage.maemo.org
Dec 16 18:49:51 <LuciusMare> er
Dec 16 18:49:54 * AndrewFBlack takes Garage Server out back with a gun like they did Old Yeller
Dec 16 18:49:57 <LuciusMare> *the WORD pediastran
Dec 16 18:50:22 <mgedmin> love the url, dislike the advertisement
Dec 16 18:50:37 <Micha_> Laters.
Dec 16 18:50:40 <cpscotti> flux: that's precisely the idea.. I made it so that i could judge whats plausible and what's not...
Dec 16 18:51:11 <mgedmin> wasn't the garage server upgrade planned for early December?
Dec 16 18:51:14 * mgedmin checks the calendar
Dec 16 18:51:36 <cehteh> dont check your calendart check nokias ....
Dec 16 18:51:50 <cehteh> they doe everything 2-3 months later than announced
Dec 16 18:52:12 <Lynoure> OIL: ERROR liboiltest.c 405: oil_test_check_impl(): function  mas10_u8_mmx_2 in class mas10_u8_l15 failed check (6616 > 0)  || (outside=0)
Dec 16 18:52:14 <lcuk> LuciusMare, Hiisty
Dec 16 18:52:18 <lcuk> Etymology: French pédomètre, from Latin ped-, pes foot + French -mètre -meter
Dec 16 18:52:41 <Lynoure> No luck so far finding out what that's about. Any ideas? I'm trying to play a sound with phonon
Dec 16 18:52:53 <Hiisty> lcuk: i was right!!!
Dec 16 18:52:59 <Hiisty> 1st time ever
Dec 16 18:53:58 <cehteh> Lynoure: that looks fishy    (6616 > 0)  || (outside=0)
Dec 16 18:54:05 <andre___> povbot, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1
Dec 16 18:54:05 <povbot> andre___: Error: "https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1" is not a valid command.
Dec 16 18:54:06 <cehteh> shoudlnt that be outside == 0
Dec 16 18:54:57 <Lynoure> cehteh: I would not know, this is first time I run into anything about liboil
Dec 16 18:55:30 <cehteh> Lynoure: i dont even know whats loboil is good for :)
Dec 16 18:55:44 <Lynoure> cehteh: that makes two of us, then
Dec 16 18:55:51 <Stskeeps> wazd_n800: o/
Dec 16 18:56:00 <cehteh>  liboiltest.c 405:    can you pastebin that line?
Dec 16 18:56:08 <cehteh> (and the lines before in context)
Dec 16 18:56:41 <mgedmin> andre___, if you want to see a bug title, just say bug #1
Dec 16 18:56:42 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it
Dec 16 18:56:44 <jiajia> hei guys when i open the app manager there are only 6 catalog
Dec 16 18:56:50 <jiajia> how could i get more for n900
Dec 16 18:56:59 <mgedmin> jiajia, why?
Dec 16 18:57:06 <jiajia> i don't know why
Dec 16 18:57:14 <mgedmin> then you don't need more catalogues ;)
Dec 16 18:57:15 <jiajia> i open it and it has 6 only
Dec 16 18:57:16 <DocScrutinizer51> cehteh: (shouldn't that...) not if it's a script
Dec 16 18:57:28 <mgedmin> I believe it has only 3 out of the box
Dec 16 18:57:32 <Lynoure> cehteh: http://pastebin.com/m10895a92
Dec 16 18:57:46 <jiajia> my friend had lots of catalog as default
Dec 16 18:58:08 <mgedmin> on a n900?
Dec 16 18:58:10 <Lynoure> cehteh: the app tries to play a sound with phonon.
Dec 16 18:58:13 <jiajia> yeas
Dec 16 18:58:21 <jiajia> yeah the app manager
Dec 16 18:58:25 <mgedmin> you are using some strange new meaning for the word "default"
Dec 16 18:58:40 <jiajia> i have 6 only my friend has lots of it we are all using the new one
Dec 16 18:58:41 <cehteh> Lynoure: the source line i meant    file: liboiltest.c  line 405
Dec 16 18:58:58 <Lynoure> cehteh: I don't know where to look for that
Dec 16 18:59:04 <mgedmin> other than the two official nokia repositories, plus maemo extras, there's only tools plus the two experimental extras-devel/extras-testing that are worth any attention
Dec 16 18:59:10 <Lynoure> cehteh: like I said, first time I hear about liboil.
Dec 16 18:59:37 <cehteh> yeah .. but i can only help you with your problem when you figure that out :P
Dec 16 18:59:59 <Lynoure> cehteh: I think at that point I can also help myself with it...
Dec 16 19:00:00 <mgedmin> liboil contains optimized assembly routines for doing stuff; "mmx" in the function name is interesting as I don't think it ought to apply to armel
Dec 16 19:00:06 <mgedmin> is this in x86 scratchbox?
Dec 16 19:00:12 <mgedmin> yes, I see it is
Dec 16 19:00:14 <Lynoure> mgedmin: it is.
Dec 16 19:00:27 <mgedmin> interesting
Dec 16 19:00:35 <mgedmin> sadly, my knowledge about liboil ends here
Dec 16 19:00:47 <mgedmin> 32 or 64-bit OS?
Dec 16 19:00:50 <cehteh> mgedmin: still an assertion with a test like  (outside = 0)   looks extremely fishy in C
Dec 16 19:00:51 <timeless_mbp> what about libwater?
Dec 16 19:00:57 <timeless_mbp> or libh2o?
Dec 16 19:01:19 <Lynoure> mgedmin: the host the scratchbox is on 32bit Ubuntu 9.10
Dec 16 19:01:34 * mgedmin votes for libnih as the best library name, although librarian comes kinda close
Dec 16 19:02:03 <cehteh> liberty :)
Dec 16 19:02:23 <range> owfat for -lowfat :)
Dec 16 19:02:39 <mgedmin> are those real?
Dec 16 19:02:54 <timeless_mbp> -liberty is real
Dec 16 19:02:55 <timeless_mbp> sadly
Dec 16 19:03:01 <cehteh> my debuging lib uses defines like EBUG_ALPHA    then you can use the -DEBUG_ALPHA compiler switch :)
Dec 16 19:03:06 <jon1012> hi
Dec 16 19:03:26 <timeless_mbp> cehteh: yuck
Dec 16 19:05:25 <Lynoure> mgedmin: I assume this is somehow related to phonon, as the same app before the phonon stuff did not give this
Dec 16 19:06:13 <range> As is -lowfat (dietlibc)
Dec 16 19:06:25 * mgedmin kinda regrets wading into the conversation when he has no clue about phonon or liboil on scratchbox
Dec 16 19:06:35 <mgedmin> and isn't really all that interested
Dec 16 19:07:17 <loppear> woke up this morning with a dead n900 battery despite being plugged into the charger. after recharging today seems to be ok - I expect it is due to one of two extras-testing apps I installed last night. any resources for investigating battery usage, other than waiting?
Dec 16 19:07:40 <pupnik> '
Dec 16 19:07:41 <pupnik> top'
Dec 16 19:07:45 <timeless_mbp> loppear: it's possible for some devices to have bad states
Dec 16 19:07:46 <mgedmin> loppear, maybe bug 6004 ?
Dec 16 19:07:47 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable
Dec 16 19:07:56 <Proteous> you didn't install the one called "INSTALL THIS NOW FOR FREE PICTURES OF TOM CRUSE!"
Dec 16 19:07:56 <timeless_mbp> ah, mgedmin has a bug number
Dec 16 19:08:22 <crashanddie> who's tom cruse?
Dec 16 19:08:28 <mgedmin> although I've only seen it twice, and only with the data cable
Dec 16 19:08:31 <mgedmin> never with a charger
Dec 16 19:08:34 <Proteous> :P
Dec 16 19:08:48 <range> crashanddie: The guy in the free pictures.
Dec 16 19:08:54 <Proteous> lol
Dec 16 19:08:56 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: i get it w/ the charger :)
Dec 16 19:09:05 <timeless_mbp> but mine is beta hardware
Dec 16 19:09:23 <mgedmin> timeless_mbp, does it indicate that it's charging (icon/blinking led)?
Dec 16 19:09:26 <loppear> mgedmin: this was on the charger, and recharge fine as on data cable actually. will verify that the charger also still works later.
Dec 16 19:09:30 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: nope
Dec 16 19:09:32 <crashanddie> range: this guy? http://user.media.sweat365.com/brad.sweat365.com/files/2007/12/real-six-pack-abs.jpg
Dec 16 19:09:37 <loppear> but in all cases, charging was indicated.
Dec 16 19:09:38 <mgedmin> so at least the UI isn't lying
Dec 16 19:09:39 <timeless_mbp> not until it runs out of power and dies
Dec 16 19:09:42 <loppear> (ui & led)
Dec 16 19:09:42 <timeless_mbp> then it starts charging
Dec 16 19:09:54 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: actually, i shouldn't say that
Dec 16 19:10:03 <mgedmin> hm
Dec 16 19:10:07 <timeless_mbp> my hardware sometimes pretends it's charging when it isn't even plugged into anything :)
Dec 16 19:10:18 <range> crashanddie: I didn't install the package :)
Dec 16 19:10:21 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp: please don't talk about your sex life
Dec 16 19:10:21 <timeless_mbp> beta hardware is fun :)
Dec 16 19:10:23 <Lynoure> mgedmin: that's ok. Thanks for voicing your regret, that way I know not to uninterest you further :)
Dec 16 19:10:34 <mgedmin> I like how my n900 is still charging several seconds after the charger is unplugged from the wall socket
Dec 16 19:10:54 <timeless_mbp> nice
Dec 16 19:10:57 <timeless_mbp> actually
Dec 16 19:11:00 <timeless_mbp> that might be legit
Dec 16 19:11:07 <timeless_mbp> if the charger has a capacitor (?)
Dec 16 19:11:12 <mgedmin> that's what I think
Dec 16 19:11:13 <loppear> mgedmin: i get that was well (after unplugging) but assumed it was legit.
Dec 16 19:11:15 <Roaziel> Hi, guys. i just got my N900 yesterday and I have this little problem that just sort of showed up earlier today... The calendar sort of just crashes as soon as it attempts to start up and I get a message that says something like "internet error".
Dec 16 19:11:21 <mgedmin> although my understanding of electricity leaves a lot to be desired
Dec 16 19:11:26 <timeless_mbp> given that chargers have to handle surges
Dec 16 19:11:36 <timeless_mbp> because power in portions of the world is um ...
Dec 16 19:11:50 <timeless_mbp> (and yes, i've been to Ukraine, among other interesting parts of the world
Dec 16 19:11:53 <mgedmin> Roaziel, clearly, it's a bug
Dec 16 19:12:01 <mgedmin> have you tried searching in bugs.maemo.org?
Dec 16 19:12:01 <timeless_mbp> heck, in Uman, they don't always have running water, let alone power)
Dec 16 19:12:15 * mgedmin installs crash-reporter
Dec 16 19:12:33 <Roaziel> Well not at bugs.maemo.org but I did google the specific error message and got Nothing
Dec 16 19:12:38 <timeless_mbp> mgedmin: fwiw, you're right
Dec 16 19:12:44 <mgedmin> cool, bluetooth DUN support has been packaged as a deb!
Dec 16 19:12:51 <Anupras> guys, how do i send facebook messages ?
Dec 16 19:13:04 <pupnik> facebook.com?
Dec 16 19:13:10 <mgedmin> Anupras, with a browser
Dec 16 19:13:21 <Anupras> yeah, but when i connect to facebook
Dec 16 19:13:23 * mgedmin is often right and even more often wrong
Dec 16 19:13:28 <Anupras> and press on my friends list
Dec 16 19:13:40 <Anupras> it's loading and after while says no friends available
Dec 16 19:13:50 <mgedmin> sometimes facebook's javascript starts ignoring keyboard/mouse events, and I get to reload the page
Dec 16 19:14:01 <kleanchap> I am planning to buy a small netbook with touch screen capabilities.  Can I install maemo as the base operating system on it and still be able to develop Java applications?
Dec 16 19:14:32 <mgedmin> kleanchap, not maemo itself, but maybe mer could be convinced to run
Dec 16 19:14:36 <mgedmin> I wouldn't be too hopeful
Dec 16 19:15:02 <kleanchap> what is mer?
Dec 16 19:15:11 <Ceron> whee -10c outside
Dec 16 19:15:12 <mgedmin> a completely open-source remix of maemo
Dec 16 19:15:15 <Ceron> and -34 in lapland :\
Dec 16 19:15:25 <mgedmin> http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
Dec 16 19:15:26 <Corsac> hhm, 42-11 is still the latests available version?
Dec 16 19:15:31 <RST38h> yes
Dec 16 19:15:32 <mgedmin> maemo has lots of closed-source parts
Dec 16 19:15:38 <Ceron> will my n900 be capable of -33c?
Dec 16 19:15:40 <Ceron> in the winter
Dec 16 19:15:49 <Ceron> working normally :P
Dec 16 19:15:51 <kleanchap> mgedmin, what platform can I install maemo to develop applications?
Dec 16 19:15:53 <_berto_> <mgedmin> cool, bluetooth DUN support has been packaged as a deb!
Dec 16 19:15:55 <_berto_> \o/
Dec 16 19:16:09 <kleanchap> mgedmin, I have Fedora and Slackware.
Dec 16 19:17:41 <Corsac> hmhm, and no flasher for amd64?
Dec 16 19:18:41 <loppear> Ceron: doing fine in my backpack at -10-15c here.. so far.
Dec 16 19:19:20 <Ceron> ok, tell me when it fails :p
Dec 16 19:19:54 <mgedmin> kleanchap, to develop maemo apps you need any linux distro (debian is often recommended)
Dec 16 19:20:19 <mgedmin> anybody brave enough to have tried 0xFFFF to flash a n900?
Dec 16 19:20:23 <kleanchap> mgedmin, thnx
Dec 16 19:20:55 <mgedmin> it probably doesn't work
Dec 16 19:20:58 <Roaziel> Ok, I checked bugs.maemo.org and I didnt find anything that even mentions my problem. Kinda gives me the feeling Im the only one in the workd whose having this problem :S
Dec 16 19:21:02 <mgedmin> the website wasn't updated since 2008
Dec 16 19:21:14 <mgedmin> Roaziel, congratulations!
Dec 16 19:21:16 <mgedmin> :)
Dec 16 19:21:27 <RST38h> Ceron: Battery may fail at this low t
Dec 16 19:21:34 <mgedmin> did you manage to add any events to your calendar, or is this a completely fresh device?
Dec 16 19:21:54 <Ceron> RST38h: really :P
Dec 16 19:21:56 <RST38h> qwerty12: Around?
Dec 16 19:22:11 <Roaziel> Well it was brand new yesterday
Dec 16 19:22:18 <Roaziel> But the problem came up Today
Dec 16 19:22:25 <RST38h> Ceron: But if you start playing a movie in advance, or use a bittorrent client, our N900 will be preheated =)
Dec 16 19:22:33 <Roaziel> granted i didnt really do much at all with the calendar
Dec 16 19:22:47 <Macer> damnit
Dec 16 19:22:59 <Macer> damn german audio channels.. i have to re-encode this crap to get rid of it
Dec 16 19:22:59 <mgedmin> ah, 0xFFFF + N900 = work in progress, according to http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Flashing_N900_with_0xFFFF
Dec 16 19:23:00 <Roaziel> is there a way to reset an application or reinstall it?
Dec 16 19:23:14 <jiajia> hei guys how to send mms by n900
Dec 16 19:23:21 <jiajia> it seems i can't do it
Dec 16 19:23:39 <mgedmin> Roaziel, I'd recommend installing crash-reporter, then reproducing the crash
Dec 16 19:23:45 <wazd_n800> RST38h, have you received anything?
Dec 16 19:23:56 <mgedmin> jiajia, the internet is full of complaints that N900 doesn't support MMS messages
Dec 16 19:23:58 <Roaziel> lol, thatll be easy it crashed every time i try to start it up
Dec 16 19:24:14 <jebba900> new n900 code recently addede to 0xFFFF
Dec 16 19:24:20 <Roaziel> Where is this "crash-reporter"?
Dec 16 19:24:31 <jiajia> mgedmin: will it be possible later on
Dec 16 19:24:40 <jiajia> that is something important
Dec 16 19:24:48 <jebba900> i think mms support doesnt come until ofono support, but not certain
Dec 16 19:24:49 <mgedmin> hm... fremantle tools repo
Dec 16 19:24:58 <RST38h> wazd: On GMail? No =(
Dec 16 19:25:09 <mgedmin> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5
Dec 16 19:25:17 <Roaziel> thanks
Dec 16 19:25:20 <jiajia> mgedmin: to me
Dec 16 19:25:33 <mgedmin> jiajia, but not to me, so I never investigated ...
Dec 16 19:25:45 <jiajia> okey thanks  , so it seems i can't send it
Dec 16 19:25:46 <mgedmin> ISTR it's "work in progress", but I don't know if you can expect anything soon
Dec 16 19:30:28 <wazd_n800> RST38h, fcuk
Dec 16 19:31:24 <RST38h> wazd: try gmail mobile
Dec 16 19:32:26 <infobot> to sound weird or anything ...
Dec 16 19:34:42 <wazd_n800> RST38h, link?)
Dec 16 19:36:51 <crashanddie> infobot: sorry?
Dec 16 19:36:52 * infobot appologizes profusely to everyone, points at the spammers, and says: "IT WAS THEM, THEY MADE ME DO IT!!!"
Dec 16 19:37:05 <wazd_n800> omg
Dec 16 19:37:08 <crashanddie> infobot: since when do you talk?
Dec 16 19:37:14 <wazd_n800> Skynet is here
Dec 16 19:37:27 <wazd_n800> ponies! run!
Dec 16 19:37:35 <crashanddie> OMG PONIES
Dec 16 19:38:17 <Myrtti> PINK PONIES?
Dec 16 19:38:30 <wazd_n800> yeah! run!
Dec 16 19:39:48 <Roaziel> mgedmin, is the crash-report software safe? :P
Dec 16 19:41:45 <AndrewFBlack> wazd_n800,  you want to take a shot that a top view of a wolf for that sheep herding game?
Dec 16 19:43:54 <mgedmin> Roaziel, I dunno, what's your definition of "safe"?
Dec 16 19:44:04 <mgedmin> it's an official Nokia-created developer tool
Dec 16 19:44:26 <mgedmin> they recommend installing it if you want to provide better bug reports on application crashes
Dec 16 19:44:52 <mgedmin> if the application in question manages your bank accounts, your private info may make it into the crash dump, so it could be called unsafe in that regard
Dec 16 19:45:04 <mgedmin> but Nokia promises not to use info from your crash dumps for evil purposes
Dec 16 19:45:20 <granden> s there any good replacement for the mail-client on the N900? Something that supports IMAP IDLE and is a bit faster when opening big imap inboxes, would be great.
Dec 16 19:45:54 <johnsq> Hi
Dec 16 19:46:06 * mgedmin used ssh + mutt for mail on N810, but is sufficiently happy with N900's builtin email client to use it every now and then
Dec 16 19:46:51 <granden> mgedmin: Thought of using a similar setup if I could not find any replacement for the mailclient.
Dec 16 19:47:05 <granden> But would like something that alerts me of new incoming mails like the current client does
Dec 16 19:47:34 <mgedmin> I don't actually use Modest to *write* mail, btw, I just read it
Dec 16 19:47:47 <wazd_n801> skynet kicked me
Dec 16 19:47:53 <mgedmin> mutt is addictive
Dec 16 19:48:00 <granden> yeah :)
Dec 16 19:48:01 <mgedmin> or, rather, a hard habit to kick
Dec 16 19:48:13 <granden> I primarily use it for reading mail as well.
Dec 16 19:48:49 <granden> But when opening a mail from the notice-box. (The yellow one(default theme)) does not mark my email as read on the server.
Dec 16 19:49:22 * Chae_Jae_Hyuk Listeniando khaleint 20091216 1105 - 559223 ! [quality:128kbits 44100Hz time:17:54]
Dec 16 19:49:23 <granden> And pretty slow for me when opening my inbo.
Dec 16 19:49:42 <granden> inbox*
Dec 16 19:50:06 <anpr> guys, does anyone have time to explain me a lit about facebook on maemo?
Dec 16 19:51:27 <granden> Not used it that much, but what about it?
Dec 16 19:52:45 <anpr> i just want to understand which is the best way
Dec 16 19:52:58 <moo-_-> anpr: to do facebooking?
Dec 16 19:52:59 <anpr> to send messages with facebook to friends
Dec 16 19:53:09 <anpr> because when i connect to facebook
Dec 16 19:53:09 <moo-_-> I use touch.facebook.com through the web browser
Dec 16 19:53:19 <moo-_-> touch = iphone interface
Dec 16 19:53:29 <LuciusMare> oy,iphone
Dec 16 19:53:31 <moo-_-> it is not perfect, but works vert well
Dec 16 19:53:37 <anpr> and press on my friend list, it loads, but after a while shows that facebook can not connect to friends list
Dec 16 19:53:38 <granden> I prefer the lite.facebook.com interface
Dec 16 19:53:51 <timeless_mbp> anpr: there's probably an addon for the n900 that lets it integrate into the device
Dec 16 19:53:58 <timeless_mbp> at least for sharing files or something
Dec 16 19:54:00 * timeless_mbp shrugs
Dec 16 19:54:04 <granden> Works very well.
Dec 16 19:54:08 <timeless_mbp> i got a chance to participate in a user study
Dec 16 19:54:20 <timeless_mbp> but they said i had to be a member of at least 2 social networking sites
Dec 16 19:54:31 <timeless_mbp> i don't think i was a member of any of the 4 listed :(
Dec 16 19:54:50 <GAN900> Where's Shopper for Fremantle.
Dec 16 19:54:52 <GAN900> ?
Dec 16 19:55:02 <anpr> and is it possible to do something similar with facebook contacts like with skype ones ?
Dec 16 19:55:08 <anpr> they are intergrated into contacts list
Dec 16 19:56:01 <timeless_mbp> anpr: if someone wrote a plugin for it, yes
Dec 16 19:56:17 <timeless_mbp> but it looks like the facebook thing that's available is a desktop widget and a sharing thing
Dec 16 19:56:36 <timeless_mbp> so i guess the facebook people didn't write a contacts thing :/
Dec 16 19:57:16 <Stskeeps> GAN900: lost on a lower priority with lbt's work
Dec 16 19:58:11 <anpr> ok, i see
Dec 16 19:58:18 <anpr> another question
Dec 16 19:58:18 <AndrewFBlack> why does extras not have a Themes Catagory for extras anymore
Dec 16 19:58:44 <anpr> if, for example, i connected to my skype account, so n900 transfered all my contatcs
Dec 16 19:58:52 <anpr> but if i want to connect to another skype contact
Dec 16 19:59:15 <anpr> account*
Dec 16 19:59:26 <anpr> and i do not need those previous contacts ?
Dec 16 19:59:55 <granden> hermez or what its called could be used?
Dec 16 20:00:07 <granden> for syncing contacts with facebook contacts?
Dec 16 20:00:23 <granden> hermes*
Dec 16 20:00:37 <loppear> granden: hermes is nice, but just uses facebook/twitter to add information about names you already have in your contacts.
Dec 16 20:00:46 <granden> Ah
Dec 16 20:00:48 <granden> I see
Dec 16 20:00:52 <granden> Havent tried it
Dec 16 20:00:59 <granden> Just read about it a little bit yesterday.
Dec 16 20:02:31 <Roaziel> I cant find my documents folder in X-Terminal
Dec 16 20:02:51 <granden> Anyone knows what the Mac OS folder is for?
Dec 16 20:02:57 <Roaziel> Or to be more exact I can find it, but it says that the folder doesnt contain the file Im trying to access
Dec 16 20:03:15 <Roaziel> Even though I know the file is there
Dec 16 20:03:50 <anpr> guys did u see what i wrote about skype ?
Dec 16 20:03:58 <anpr> i thing my connection beeped..
Dec 16 20:05:06 <sp3000> "...	and i do not need those previous contacts ?"
Dec 16 20:05:50 <anpr> ok
Dec 16 20:06:11 <anpr> so anyone any clues ?
Dec 16 20:06:27 <sp3000> hermes does something with facebook contacts afaiui
Dec 16 20:07:20 <sp3000> also afaiui you want to be careful about deleting any contacts related to a service since it may delete them remotely as well
Dec 16 20:07:29 <Anupras> and now it really beeped..
Dec 16 20:07:33 <sp3000> I believe it warns but I think people have managed to do it anyway :)
Dec 16 20:07:35 <Anupras> sp3000 yeah i know about deleting
Dec 16 20:07:51 <Anupras> but if i want just to change skype account with different contacts
Dec 16 20:07:53 <Anupras> is it possible ?
Dec 16 20:08:22 <sp3000> not sure what you're looking for, but you can remove the configuration for the account you have and configure another?
Dec 16 20:08:56 * sp3000 isn't that intimate with contacts
Dec 16 20:09:02 <Anupras> but when you go to settings
Dec 16 20:09:04 <Anupras> oh
Dec 16 20:09:14 <Anupras> let's finish this topic, will try to figure it out
Dec 16 20:13:44 <Roaziel> Ok, I need help. Im trying to install Crash-Report as mgedmin suggested, but it said that it required libc-bin. So I downloaded libc-bin_2.10.2-2_armel.deb from Debian and im trying to install it in X-Terminal but all I get is "dpkg: 'ldconfig' not found pn PATH." and "dpkg: 1 expected program(s) not found on PATH."
Dec 16 20:14:18 <mgedmin> Roaziel, don't do that!
Dec 16 20:14:26 <Roaziel> :S
Dec 16 20:14:33 <mgedmin> downloading random .deb files from random distributions and installing them is definitely NOT safe
Dec 16 20:14:41 <mgedmin> if app manager couldn't install crash reporter, give up
Dec 16 20:14:51 <mgedmin> although it'd be interesting to know why...
Dec 16 20:15:29 <Roaziel> *stops* geez. thanks for the warning i could've fucked up a brand new and devilishly expensive device XD
Dec 16 20:15:47 <mgedmin> nah, it's fixable (although could be a hassle)
Dec 16 20:16:13 <hrw> hi
Dec 16 20:16:16 <mgedmin> I have crash-reporter installed -- and there's no sign of any package called libc-bin on my n900
Dec 16 20:16:17 <mgedmin> so, what happened?
Dec 16 20:16:23 <hrw> someone here likes Protracker modules?
Dec 16 20:16:28 <Roaziel> ok... so I cant install Crash-report... is there no way to reinstall or reconfigure the calendar to default settings or something?... without actually starting it up? :P
Dec 16 20:16:34 <cosmo> hrw: _o/
Dec 16 20:17:01 <konttori> tbf: it will be from ovi store
Dec 16 20:17:10 <hrw> I need someone to just test binary on n900
Dec 16 20:17:32 <Roaziel> Heeeey. wait a minute....
Dec 16 20:17:44 <cosmo> hrw: of what?
Dec 16 20:17:45 <AbstractW> Anyone tried to get Mono up and running on their n900 yet? :P
Dec 16 20:18:06 <RST38h> konttori: BTW, are there any news on the bug where "canont connect to to one of services" message annoyingly pops up every minute or so?
Dec 16 20:18:22 <mgedmin> AbstractW, surely when somebody does, Miguel will blog about it
Dec 16 20:18:41 <Roaziel> Yesterday i tried installing an app called ScummVM and it had the same problem. it required libs. I googled it and saw that debian.org had all of them and I tried installing like 2 or 3 of them last night before I hopped in bed... then this morning this calendar thing happened... can it be related?
Dec 16 20:19:27 <mgedmin> RST38h, fwiw I discovered it was account-plugin-salut that was causing that repetition, because of a bug in avahi-daemon: salut tries to register with avah, which isn't started on boot because it has no upstart file
Dec 16 20:19:34 <mgedmin> I uploaded a fixed avahi-daemon to extras-devel a few days ago
Dec 16 20:19:39 <AbstractW> mgedmin: Does Mono even run on arm processors yet?
Dec 16 20:19:40 <Jaffa> garage websites down?
Dec 16 20:19:44 <konttori> RST38h: what's that bug? I've never heard of it, let alone experienced it
Dec 16 20:19:48 <hrw> cosmo: my module player. but it require gstmodplug also installed and there is no package with it
Dec 16 20:19:52 <hrw> AbstractW: it does fine
Dec 16 20:19:53 <Jaffa> AbstractW: there was a Maemo 4 port
Dec 16 20:20:07 <mgedmin> Roaziel, possible, but unlikely, IMHO
Dec 16 20:20:19 <Roaziel> dang
Dec 16 20:20:23 <mgedmin> AbstractW, miguel blogged a screenshot of it running on a N8x0 a while ago
Dec 16 20:20:46 <konttori> But hey, then again, I'm using currently the firmware of the one after the one after the one you will receive next (well, a dev version of it, but still), so it might as well have been fixed early on ;)
Dec 16 20:20:55 <jon1012> anyone in lyon, lisbon or paris here ?
Dec 16 20:20:58 <mgedmin> Roaziel, 100% sure but tedious way: reflash, it'll restore everything to factory defaults (including remove your data and settings)
Dec 16 20:21:16 <Roaziel> ... yikes. Id rather avoid that...
Dec 16 20:21:23 <konttori> ups, skip one of those ones ;)
Dec 16 20:21:23 <mgedmin> Roaziel, a not-so-quick-and-sure way: report a bug on bugs.maemo.org, help developers figure it out, wait until they fix it
Dec 16 20:21:34 <AbstractW> mgedmin: Well, with more processor on the N900, I'm sure we'll see it running on there too. :)
Dec 16 20:21:36 <tbf> AbstractW: http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/armel/mono-runtime/download
Dec 16 20:21:43 <tbf> AbstractW: should be a no brainer
Dec 16 20:21:46 <AbstractW> I really look forward to that.
Dec 16 20:21:51 <_berto_> jon1012: lyon, lisbon or paris? i'm curious about what you're looking for :)
Dec 16 20:21:58 <Roaziel> lol... and how long could that take? :P
Dec 16 20:22:16 <mgedmin> Roaziel, regarding the loss of data & settings, there's the builtin backup/restore app
Dec 16 20:22:31 * hrw -> sleep
Dec 16 20:22:51 <jon1012> _berto_: I'm making a n900 client app for my network of collaborative city guides :)
Dec 16 20:23:06 <jon1012> _berto_: and right now, there are only websites in paris, lyon and lisboa :)
Dec 16 20:23:15 <Roaziel> how hard is it reflash it?.... I'm a complete n00b at this :P
Dec 16 20:23:21 <mgedmin> the bug fix? weeks/months, but developers *might* find a way to work around the faulty data and make your calendar app work again sooner
Dec 16 20:23:30 <mgedmin> infobot, reflashing?
Dec 16 20:23:34 <jon1012> Roaziel: a matter of two downloads, and one command :)
Dec 16 20:23:35 <RST38h> konttori: bug #5321
Dec 16 20:23:36 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5321 Annoying "connection lost/established" banners
Dec 16 20:23:36 <mgedmin> um, is there a trigger?
Dec 16 20:23:39 <_berto_> jon1012: ah :) I'm not in any of those cities, sorry
Dec 16 20:23:59 <mgedmin> Roaziel, it's documented at http://wiki.maemo.org/Flashing
Dec 16 20:24:20 <konttori> I never have bad connection. We have no bad connection areas in Helsinki
Dec 16 20:24:23 <Roaziel> wow, sounds almost too simple :P
Dec 16 20:24:28 <mgedmin> it's not complicated
Dec 16 20:24:34 <mgedmin> just tedious
Dec 16 20:24:36 <RST38h> konttori: well... mm... you know
Dec 16 20:24:38 <konttori> anyway, the bug comments that it's fixed in harmattan ;)
Dec 16 20:24:59 <RST38h> konttori: can it be somehow fixed in fremantle as well?
Dec 16 20:25:07 <konttori> fixed in the update after the next that you will get ;)
Dec 16 20:25:09 <RST38h> because it is annoying like hell
Dec 16 20:25:15 <RST38h> ah thanks =)
Dec 16 20:25:36 <tbf> konttori: ETA?
Dec 16 20:25:52 <mgedmin> ooh, re bug #5321, I never realized it also plays a sound
Dec 16 20:25:56 <wazd_n801> konttori, btw
Dec 16 20:25:57 <mgedmin> I keep my n900 in silent mode always
Dec 16 20:26:04 <konttori> so, next update (hopefully very soon), is a small one and only fixes HAM. But soonish after that you'll get the first proper update and that should have the fixe for 5321
Dec 16 20:26:07 <wazd_n801> konttori, since yo 're here)
Dec 16 20:26:19 <mgedmin> notification banner is ignorable, sound effects would be unbearable
Dec 16 20:26:34 * RST38h moos triumfantly
Dec 16 20:26:35 <konttori> disable system sounds - > solved
Dec 16 20:26:40 <wazd_n801> konttori, TM stucks at 1% in Vista again)
Dec 16 20:27:19 <konttori> wazd_n801: do you have 64 bit windows?
Dec 16 20:27:32 <wazd_n801> konttori, yep
Dec 16 20:27:36 <joppu> Any guestimate when autobuider stops being gay. eg. doesn't timeout every time?
Dec 16 20:27:55 <konttori> hmm... could be that it requires more mem for the java vm.
Dec 16 20:28:03 <RST38h> joppu: that is not gay, that is dead
Dec 16 20:28:09 <konttori> wazd_n801: does it show any errors in the command prompt?
Dec 16 20:28:18 <konttori> (you have opened it with the bat file, right?)
Dec 16 20:28:39 <Klowner> I'm afraid to touch my N900 until I slap an invisible shield on it, it's just sitting on the table, taunting me
Dec 16 20:29:06 <w00t> Klowner: it's good at cleaning up, so if that is your worry it's ok
Dec 16 20:29:32 <Myrtti> joppu: have some respect for gay people :-<
Dec 16 20:29:49 <mgedmin> cleaning doesn't remove scratches ...
Dec 16 20:29:57 * mgedmin agrees with Myrtti 
Dec 16 20:29:59 <Stskeeps> joppu: server upgrades :/
Dec 16 20:30:00 <Myrtti> comparing them with autobuilder is not nice :-D
Dec 16 20:30:12 <Klowner> I doubt I'd scratch it, though I'd have to clean my dirty finger oil off it
Dec 16 20:30:15 <ifreq> Klowner: do you have sharp fingers or what?
Dec 16 20:30:26 <mgedmin> n900 *loooooves* fingerprints
Dec 16 20:30:27 * ifreq puts on tinfoil hat too
Dec 16 20:30:29 <Klowner> well no
Dec 16 20:30:30 <RST38h> Speaking of scratches, how does one remove tiny scratches on the touchscreen?
Dec 16 20:30:33 <crashanddie> finger oil?
Dec 16 20:30:49 * mgedmin started wondering what tinfs were and how you pressed oil out of them
Dec 16 20:30:52 <joppu> And whose bright idea was to remove the category user/themes from extras?
Dec 16 20:31:01 <konttori> I have been using my n900 so freakin' lot that I can say for sure that it handles rough use.
Dec 16 20:31:02 <konttori> It
Dec 16 20:31:03 <konttori> s
Dec 16 20:31:03 <konttori>  
Dec 16 20:31:03 <konttori> a
Dec 16 20:31:03 <Klowner> my invisible shield should arrive within a couple days
Dec 16 20:31:03 <konttori> 
Dec 16 20:31:08 <RST38h> joppu: was not there to begin with?
Dec 16 20:31:27 <derf> joppu: The same person who thought it was a bright idea to remove user/tools?
Dec 16 20:31:30 <joppu> RST38h: was in OS2008
Dec 16 20:31:30 <ifreq> Klowner: so before invi shield no usage? :P
Dec 16 20:31:31 <RST38h> konttori: I have got long vertical scratches where I usually touch it with my fingers to scroll
Dec 16 20:31:38 <konttori> It's also my babys toy which she is slamming against random objects and dropping to floor from heights all the thime
Dec 16 20:31:44 <RST38h> joppu: OS2008 allowed any category you could think of
Dec 16 20:31:58 <konttori> RST38h: use a cleaning cloth every once in a while?
Dec 16 20:32:00 <Stskeeps> RST38h: did you clean with the cloth?
Dec 16 20:32:14 <RST38h> konttori: cannot "clean" them, they are scratches
Dec 16 20:32:16 <Klowner> ifreq: well, I've been using it, but very carefully and only using the stylus :)
Dec 16 20:32:17 <RST38h> Sts: yes
Dec 16 20:32:30 <konttori> RST38h: you use fingernails? Or pen?
Dec 16 20:32:34 <wazd_n801> konttori, can't test it right now, but I've been running it with an old bat and it  didn't work
Dec 16 20:32:36 <RST38h> konttori: fingernails
Dec 16 20:32:47 * joppu apologizes to Stskeeps 
Dec 16 20:32:55 <mtnbkr_> Klowner: heh it took me almost 4 days before I knew my N900 even HAD a stylus!   lol
Dec 16 20:32:56 <Stskeeps> joppu: .. because of what?
Dec 16 20:33:01 <konttori> RST38h: hmm... perhaps they are made of diamond-like substance?
Dec 16 20:33:06 <Klowner> mtnbkr_: heheh
Dec 16 20:33:09 <mgedmin> :)
Dec 16 20:33:20 <RST38h> konttori: regular, afaik, at least they do not withstand clippers
Dec 16 20:33:23 <joppu> nothing
Dec 16 20:33:43 <joppu> I was apologizin for Myrtti :(
Dec 16 20:33:59 <RST38h> konttori: to be completley fair, whatever that transparent stuff is, it makes its best to hide scratches
Dec 16 20:34:12 <RST38h> konttori: only visible in direct luminiscent lighting
Dec 16 20:37:56 <pekuja> where could I find information on adding a new share destination for the photo application?
Dec 16 20:38:11 <pekuja> I would like to be able to publish photos directly to my own website.
Dec 16 20:39:52 <timeless_mbp> pekuja: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ ?
Dec 16 20:39:53 <SpeedEvil> pekuja++
Dec 16 20:40:03 <timeless_mbp> http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libsharing-plugin/
Dec 16 20:40:16 <timeless_mbp> pekuja: please add 'share via scp'
Dec 16 20:40:21 <pekuja> timeless_mbp: thanks
Dec 16 20:40:26 <pekuja> timeless_mbp: hmm, scp would be nice
Dec 16 20:40:30 * timeless_mbp really really wants share via scp
Dec 16 20:40:36 <ShadowJK> bah, I just changed to a new durasec cleartec. The instructions recommended using a CC for applying it. It left about as many scratches as I had before :-)
Dec 16 20:40:42 <ShadowJK> just in other places
Dec 16 20:41:00 <pekuja> timeless_mbp: would probably pretty much solve my use case too, unless I want more metadata than I can store inside the picture itself
Dec 16 20:41:13 <timeless_mbp> pekuja: =)
Dec 16 20:41:16 <pekuja> timeless_mbp: I'll let you know if I end up doing that. ;-)
Dec 16 20:41:22 <timeless_mbp> pekuja: i'll gladly help test if you do it :)
Dec 16 20:41:30 <ShadowJK> share via scp would be awesome
Dec 16 20:41:35 <timeless_mbp> although, i demand that you provide sources, i'm not giving you my credentials
Dec 16 20:41:43 <pekuja> strange that nobody's done it so far
Dec 16 20:41:49 <timeless_mbp> ETOOBUSY
Dec 16 20:41:55 <pekuja> I suppose so
Dec 16 20:42:10 <pekuja> yeah I'm fine with providing source
Dec 16 20:42:24 <pekuja> would SFTP do instead of scp, by the way?
Dec 16 20:42:31 <ShadowJK> RST38h, replacement touch window is only 55E (plus installation) :-)
Dec 16 20:42:56 <pekuja> I think SFTP works in more places than scp, or was that the other way around?
Dec 16 20:43:06 <ShadowJK> I think it's other way around
Dec 16 20:43:11 <pekuja> hmm
Dec 16 20:43:30 <ifreq> scp works in more places than sftp
Dec 16 20:43:31 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Won't arrive here in the next 3-4 months most likely
Dec 16 20:43:39 <RST38h> ShadowJK: But it is still good to know of course
Dec 16 20:46:38 <ShadowJK> system("scp user@server /tmp/image.jpg public_html/images/"); ;D
Dec 16 20:52:14 <jebba> ShadowJK: a friend of mine has and recommends highly one of these:   http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/nokia-n900-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php
Dec 16 20:52:33 <ShadowJK> I heard they had  very high surface friction
Dec 16 20:53:21 <Klowner> ShadowJK: I'm getting one, I'll let ya know what I think in a couple days
Dec 16 20:53:43 <Klowner> I've heard wildly differing opinions regarding surface friction
Dec 16 20:54:34 <ShadowJK> the only good thing about durasec cleartec is that they're cheap, you get 5 of them
Dec 16 20:54:56 <ShadowJK> but scrolling around in the browser and similar scratches them
Dec 16 20:55:29 <Klowner> invisible shield things claim to be self healing
Dec 16 20:55:43 <Klowner> though that's also why they're a little rubbery
Dec 16 20:56:25 <Klowner> I figure once I make a few calls and get it saturated with face oil it'll be plenty slippery
Dec 16 20:58:46 * mgedmin would like to have a full-body sleeve for the n900
Dec 16 20:58:54 <mgedmin> oh, and ssh-askpass for maemo
Dec 16 21:06:22 <el_zilcho> Is anyone else having an issue of media player not recognizing artist/title/album tracks for at least half of your music collection? wondering if maybe its only supporting id3 and not id3v2 or something to that extent
Dec 16 21:06:29 <jebba> promoted, but not in extras-testing yet (not sure how long that takes, i just did it a minute ago).  But this is a good game i ported over that's in extras-devel right now  :)  http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/burgerspace/1.8.3-10/
Dec 16 21:06:32 <el_zilcho> found minimal posts about the issue
Dec 16 21:10:01 <el_zilcho> the tracks are there and playable... they just all come up as (unknown album) (unknown artist)
Dec 16 21:10:07 <el_zilcho> ogg support installed
Dec 16 21:10:10 <el_zilcho> and they are flac files
Dec 16 21:12:30 <FiSHBoY> yeah, flac file tag info doesn't work in the media player, because flac files generally do not use id3, I think I saw that they generally use the ogg tag system, or some such thing, and the media library doesn't support those
Dec 16 21:12:44 <el_zilcho> hmm
Dec 16 21:12:50 <el_zilcho> i'll try hitting it with ex falso then
Dec 16 21:13:04 <el_zilcho> because some do actually work
Dec 16 21:13:11 <FiSHBoY> some may have id3 tags
Dec 16 21:13:15 <el_zilcho> yeah
Dec 16 21:13:30 <MuJ> http://flac.sourceforge.net/faq.html#general__no_cuesheet_tags
Dec 16 21:14:22 <el_zilcho> oh, maybe i have .cue/log stuff in those particular albums
Dec 16 21:15:02 <Corsac> el_zilcho: btw is the media player able to get album covers by itself?
Dec 16 21:15:36 <el_zilcho> well, these are all showing no cover, so the thought is no
Dec 16 21:16:51 <el_zilcho> i dunno which way it turned out, but i thought someone said that it reads embedded cover data and not jpegs in the folder
Dec 16 21:17:14 <FiSHBoY> yeah, it does read embedded album art
Dec 16 21:17:26 <FiSHBoY> I have some mp3s from Amazon, and they embed cover art, and those show up
Dec 16 21:17:30 <el_zilcho> which is also not going to happen for me
Dec 16 21:17:37 <el_zilcho> if i embed cover art, i can't continue seeding
Dec 16 21:28:51 <jon1012> is there a way to see all new apps for maemo ?
Dec 16 21:29:33 <Anupras> jon1012
Dec 16 21:29:36 <el_zilcho> update your repos and view all?
Dec 16 21:29:40 <Anupras> it's possibleto seepublished apps
Dec 16 21:29:40 <Anupras> if in n900 case
Dec 16 21:29:44 <el_zilcho> it will show everything though
Dec 16 21:29:53 <el_zilcho> hmm
Dec 16 21:29:58 <Anupras> application manager shows
Dec 16 21:30:10 <jon1012> Anupras: where ?
Dec 16 21:30:20 <Anupras> open menu in n900
Dec 16 21:30:23 <Anupras> press more
Dec 16 21:30:28 <Anupras> and application manager
Dec 16 21:30:51 <Anupras> and there download
Dec 16 21:31:11 <Anupras> and you can select one of directories or just press all
Dec 16 21:31:26 <jon1012> Anupras: I know... but how to see only last ones ?
Dec 16 21:31:31 <jon1012> I mean newer ones ?
Dec 16 21:31:32 <jaem> jon1012, there was some discussion months ago about adding a "new apps" feed from maemo.org Downloads to the App Manager, but I guess it didn't make it
Dec 16 21:31:35 <Anupras> hmm
Dec 16 21:31:43 <Anupras> then it's better to check it on website
Dec 16 21:31:44 <Anupras> maemo.org
Dec 16 21:31:48 <jon1012> jaem: oh ok... that would be a cool feature though
Dec 16 21:31:58 <jaem> jon1012, agreed, but it probably wasn't a priority
Dec 16 21:32:28 <el_zilcho> i guess you could really just browse here where the apps are listed by what's new right?
Dec 16 21:32:29 <jaem> I like Linux package management, but most implementations could be presented in a more discoverable/pretty way
Dec 16 21:32:32 <el_zilcho> http://maemo.org/downloads/updated/Maemo5/25
Dec 16 21:32:41 <el_zilcho> there are install links on them all
Dec 16 21:32:59 <jaem> jon1012, for example, what Ubuntu is doing here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter
Dec 16 21:33:10 <GAN900> Patches welcome!
Dec 16 21:33:15 <jaem> something like that on a smaller scale would be good for Maemo, methinks
Dec 16 21:33:22 <el_zilcho> sorted by the last update
Dec 16 21:33:30 <jaem> GAN900, forgot HAM was FOSS
Dec 16 21:33:31 <jaem> heh
Dec 16 21:34:09 <jon1012> jebba: burger takes space on root partition ?
Dec 16 21:34:35 <jebba> jon1012: no, is optified
Dec 16 21:35:36 <jon1012>  jebba: strange...
Dec 16 21:35:41 <jon1012> jebba: ok
Dec 16 21:36:41 <jebba> strange?
Dec 16 21:37:03 <jebba> it puts the files in /opt.   That is how packages are supposed to be installed on N900
Dec 16 21:37:51 <jon1012> yeah I know
Dec 16 21:38:07 <jon1012> but I got less space on the drive after installing it, that's why I said strange
Dec 16 21:38:17 <jon1012> I guess it's the apt cache or somthing then
Dec 16 21:38:39 <FiSHBoY> ow, netsplit to the face
Dec 16 21:39:42 <jebba> ah ya, apt cache will do it.
Dec 16 21:39:51 <jebba> and it will add to the icon-cache, but nothing i can do abotu that
Dec 16 21:40:10 <jebba> you can   `dpkg -L burgerspace` to see what files were installed.  jon1012
Dec 16 21:43:01 <jon1012> (btw, is there a build of xulrunner for /opt ?)
Dec 16 21:50:53 <Milo-> hey has anyone figured out how to flash the camera light? (or how to turn it on and off?)
Dec 16 21:50:56 <Milo-> jebba maybe?
Dec 16 21:51:57 <ShadowJK> wasn't there an app for it
Dec 16 21:52:14 <lcuk> yes
Dec 16 21:52:26 <AbstractW> mmm pocket strobe.
Dec 16 21:52:29 <lcuk> theres a few apps which use it
Dec 16 21:52:39 <lcuk> but they still lack the ui to do it cleanly
Dec 16 21:52:45 <Milo-> trying to find a flashlight app
Dec 16 21:52:53 <Milo-> there is torch application
Dec 16 21:52:56 <Milo-> but that just uses the screen
Dec 16 21:53:05 <Milo-> which isn't that bright compared to the led
Dec 16 21:53:57 <jebba> Milo-: dunno, but would be interesting
Dec 16 21:54:15 <Milo-> I kind of wanted to cause deaths and strokes with my phone :(
Dec 16 21:54:28 <ShadowJK> you could probably not run it for any lengths of time at the same brightness as flash anyway
Dec 16 21:54:32 <jebba> Milo-: if you can get control of this, you win:  V4L2_CID_INDICATOR_INTENSITY
Dec 16 21:54:46 <jebba> i think
Dec 16 21:55:01 <jebba> "theoretically" can be controlled via v4l2  (video4linux2)
Dec 16 21:55:21 <AbstractW> Anyone recompiled the kernel for their N900 yet? :P
Dec 16 21:55:22 <jebba> so a program that can send arbitrary v4l2 could do it, or perhaps dbus
Dec 16 21:55:26 <jon1012> jebba: how to go up the stairs in burger ? :)
Dec 16 21:55:26 <jebba> AbstractW: yes
Dec 16 21:55:31 <Milo-> weirdly, googling that results in a user:Jebba -page :P
Dec 16 21:55:49 <jebba> AbstractW:  http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/MALF/dsc_0325.jpg
Dec 16 21:56:03 <AbstractW> very cool.
Dec 16 21:56:08 <jebba> AbstractW: see:  http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Installing_my_custom_kernel
Dec 16 21:56:15 <Milo-> jebba nice :D
Dec 16 21:56:24 <Milo-> but your kernel is slow
Dec 16 21:56:32 <Milo-> my laptop does it in 1.1 seconds!
Dec 16 21:56:42 <Milo-> and weirdly, this phone seems to have more juice than my laptop :P
Dec 16 21:57:17 <jebba> (think i missed the joke, but it seems to run the same speed as regular kernel)
Dec 16 21:57:37 <eitreach> try installing Synaptic on it - god it's slow. :p
Dec 16 21:57:55 <AbstractW> jebba: You should list what you needed to actually fully compile your kernel :)
Dec 16 21:57:59 <Milo-> jebba you haven't ever actually built a linux kernel before?
Dec 16 21:58:40 <jebba> Milo-: huh?
Dec 16 21:58:54 <jebba> AbstractW: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Compile_custom_kernel
Dec 16 21:58:59 <Milo-> not a maemo kernel
Dec 16 21:59:14 <AbstractW> Ah, I missed it. Just didn't scroll down far enough.
Dec 16 21:59:17 <jebba> though i'm actually building it a bit different now, that way works.
Dec 16 21:59:30 <jebba> Milo-: i've compiled hundreds of kernels.
Dec 16 21:59:39 <AbstractW> does make menu-config work?
Dec 16 21:59:42 <Milo-> ah okay then I don't see how you missed the joke
Dec 16 21:59:50 <Milo-> make menuconfig, you mean?
Dec 16 21:59:58 <AbstractW> yeah.
Dec 16 22:00:02 <AbstractW> Sorry, its been many, many years.
Dec 16 22:00:02 <jebba> ARCH=arm make menuconfig
Dec 16 22:00:18 <jebba> ARCH=arm make rx51_defconfig
Dec 16 22:00:33 <jebba> do those in reverse order that i wrote them there  ;)
Dec 16 22:00:34 <AbstractW> Heh, have the N900 recompile its own kernel, for added fun :)
Dec 16 22:00:43 <Milo-> yes!
Dec 16 22:00:47 <Milo-> We want gcc!
Dec 16 22:01:05 <lcuk> maemo sdk repository
Dec 16 22:01:06 <AbstractW> I have no doubt it'd take many, many hours.
Dec 16 22:01:07 <lcuk> thats easy
Dec 16 22:01:14 * lcuk uses it everyday
Dec 16 22:01:19 <Milo-> looked at extras-testing and found light httpd
Dec 16 22:01:21 <lcuk> apt-get install build-essential does most
Dec 16 22:01:22 <AbstractW> gcc on the n900?
Dec 16 22:01:26 <lcuk> hell yeah
Dec 16 22:01:29 <AbstractW> sweet.
Dec 16 22:01:32 * lcuk nods
Dec 16 22:01:39 <AbstractW> It really is a full blown linux install.
Dec 16 22:01:39 <Milo-> have you ever wanted to have a web-server in your pocket?
Dec 16 22:01:43 <Milo-> well now it is possible!
Dec 16 22:01:47 <lcuk> its got oddities
Dec 16 22:01:53 <lcuk> mer is better for complete building
Dec 16 22:01:53 <AbstractW> Milo-: Thats what garage.maemo.org runs on!
Dec 16 22:02:00 <ifreq> i found torrent client odd on a phone but well.. :P
Dec 16 22:02:06 <Milo-> my old e71 had wlan-access point application
Dec 16 22:02:14 <AbstractW> torrent client on a phone, is good to abuse TMobile or ATT's network :)
Dec 16 22:02:18 <Milo-> turned the internet connection from my phone service provider into a wlan access point :D
Dec 16 22:02:21 <lcuk> ifreq, not odd if you consider thats where you want the media
Dec 16 22:02:23 <AbstractW> I use one on my iphone, just to piss off ATT.
Dec 16 22:02:24 * ml-maemo completes the "system admin via N900" achievement
Dec 16 22:02:33 <lcuk> and not odd if its just a computer
Dec 16 22:02:33 <Milo-> so now I can have wlan connection AND http-server in two pockets!
Dec 16 22:02:48 <lcuk> adhoc wifi ftw
Dec 16 22:03:15 <AbstractW> My iphone runs a debian torrent, 24 hours a day.
Dec 16 22:03:25 <AbstractW> And each time it fully downloads the ISO, it starts over.
Dec 16 22:03:30 <AbstractW> Just because :)
Dec 16 22:03:42 <pwnguin> AbstractW: so you're the reason at&t sucks in SF :P
Dec 16 22:03:43 <lcuk> doesnt it stop running if you get a call?
Dec 16 22:03:48 <cehteh> ap mode would be cool .. next time on the lug meeting the n900 could do the networking for the whole group
Dec 16 22:03:54 <jebba> i wish, i have to prepay data and burn thru it *real* quick...
Dec 16 22:03:59 <AbstractW> lcuk: Yeah, I have two buttons to pause and resume it on my home screen.
Dec 16 22:04:04 <lcuk> cehteh, yeah but its good enough at adhoc
Dec 16 22:04:12 <AbstractW> pwnguin: No, I'm not in SF, I'm in the Midwest :)
Dec 16 22:04:13 <jebba> cehteh: needs NAT module which isn't supported by stock kernel, not even if you build the modules, unfortunately
Dec 16 22:04:27 <cehteh> huh why not?
Dec 16 22:04:29 <lcuk> plus, some hotels you can get on the AP and do local connections
Dec 16 22:04:31 <Milo-> Could it please be friday already :(
Dec 16 22:04:37 <AbstractW> I wish.
Dec 16 22:04:45 <jebba> see this: http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/
Dec 16 22:04:46 <Milo-> friday is the last day of school
Dec 16 22:04:47 <AbstractW> Get to see the girlfriend on friday.
Dec 16 22:04:55 <Milo-> and then I can start reading the developer's guide
Dec 16 22:04:58 <cehteh> doesnt need nat anyways, proxy ftw
Dec 16 22:05:08 <jebba> cehteh: see this, re: NAT  http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/kernel/modules/TESTS/modprobe-test.log
Dec 16 22:05:16 <AbstractW> Milo-: It'll take about 10 minutes for that page to load.
Dec 16 22:05:22 <jebba> ya, can proxy, not NAT, true.
Dec 16 22:05:25 <Milo-> AbstractW :C
Dec 16 22:05:29 <jebba> not sure what you'd run for that. Squid? heh.
Dec 16 22:05:31 <Milo-> so I need to start loading the pages, today.
Dec 16 22:05:43 <AbstractW> Garage is running off your litehttpd, on a n900 :P
Dec 16 22:05:46 <cehteh> jebba: i rather wonder .. nat should be supported by stock kernel
Dec 16 22:05:57 <jebba> cehteh: ya, would be nice....
Dec 16 22:05:58 <Milo-> AbstractW 'just because they can'?
Dec 16 22:06:05 <cehteh> AbstractW: nah its a cluster of unused n700'S
Dec 16 22:06:10 <AbstractW> Milo-: No, because they want to piss off the community.
Dec 16 22:06:19 <Milo-> :D
Dec 16 22:06:28 <AbstractW> Stifle application development.
Dec 16 22:06:28 <Milo-> so that is 'because they can'
Dec 16 22:06:29 <AbstractW> :P
Dec 16 22:06:34 <Milo-> well, obviously, can't.
Dec 16 22:06:47 <jon1012> Milo-: "flashlight" in extras-devel no ?
Dec 16 22:07:00 <cehteh> yes
Dec 16 22:07:01 <Milo-> jon1012 ah, devel
Dec 16 22:07:04 <AbstractW> I wish my N900 would ship..... ><
Dec 16 22:07:06 <Milo-> don't have devel repository added
Dec 16 22:07:15 <lcuk> liqtorch in testing is lazy
Dec 16 22:07:19 <lcuk> but works on n8x0 too
Dec 16 22:07:34 <Milo-> lcuk but liqtorch uses screen, not camera led
Dec 16 22:07:39 <Milo-> devel seems like a bad place to download stuff from
Dec 16 22:07:51 <lcuk> stuff thats in development
Dec 16 22:07:58 <lcuk> Milo-, yeah
Dec 16 22:08:02 <Milo-> yes
Dec 16 22:08:07 <Milo-> but they seem to go to rootfs
Dec 16 22:08:09 <lcuk> it uses screen, because the ui for the leds isnt right
Dec 16 22:08:10 <Milo-> which is bad mkay
Dec 16 22:08:21 <lcuk> just how would you handle it
Dec 16 22:08:26 <Milo-> don't care
Dec 16 22:08:27 <Milo-> :P
Dec 16 22:08:33 <Milo-> users don't matter
Dec 16 22:08:59 <AbstractW> needs more ruby on rails running on n900 :)
Dec 16 22:09:14 <pwnguin> lcuk: maybe prevent the camera app from running on cover sliding
Dec 16 22:09:22 * jon1012 got turbogears 2 apps working on its n900 :D
Dec 16 22:09:24 <lcuk> o_O really
Dec 16 22:09:37 <lcuk> pwnguin, but what if i want the camera
Dec 16 22:09:54 <pupnik> what?
Dec 16 22:10:07 <pupnik> jon1012: what iz dat
Dec 16 22:10:11 <pwnguin> lcuk: perhaps disable it only while the "flashlight app" is running
Dec 16 22:10:28 <lcuk> pwnguin, i want torches on when recording video
Dec 16 22:10:35 <pwnguin> lcuk: you're nuts
Dec 16 22:10:40 <lcuk> or when setting up for other shots
Dec 16 22:10:51 <pwnguin> and the status quo is no better
Dec 16 22:11:00 <jon1012> pupnik: python web framework :) (like ruby on rails but on python and 100x time better ;))
Dec 16 22:11:07 <pwnguin> the LEDs can be driven at flash for a half second tops
Dec 16 22:11:34 <pupnik> are they brighter than the screen?
Dec 16 22:11:58 <pupnik> terminal works fine for flashlight here
Dec 16 22:12:05 <pwnguin> the flash is mega bright
Dec 16 22:12:23 <lcuk> hence pwnguin why i have an app in extras for a torch that works and isnt based on leds
Dec 16 22:12:39 <pwnguin> lcuk: im calling liqtorch the status quo
Dec 16 22:12:40 <lcuk> its a complex problem to use the leds for most cases
Dec 16 22:13:00 <pwnguin> you could modify the camera app to offer a flashlight
Dec 16 22:13:03 <lcuk> but that problem can be solved with 1 torch icon within the camera app itself
Dec 16 22:13:05 <lcuk> yes
Dec 16 22:13:45 * pwnguin checks for source availablity of camera app
Dec 16 22:15:09 <Arkenoi> any ideas what can i purge on / filesystem?
Dec 16 22:15:36 <AbstractW> Arkenoi: the always helpful rm -rf / :)
Dec 16 22:15:37 <AbstractW> purge! :P
Dec 16 22:15:40 <lcuk> theres some sort of usr folder
Dec 16 22:15:47 <lcuk> that doesnt do anything, just get rid of it
Dec 16 22:15:55 <pwnguin> is conffiles: a standard debian control field?
Dec 16 22:16:04 <AbstractW> Oh, you meant purge files that wouldn't affect the system :)
Dec 16 22:16:29 <Arkenoi> got 95% full. for no apparent reason - just yesterday it was just 80%
Dec 16 22:26:41 <Milo-> readline is probably not supported for maemo?
Dec 16 22:26:59 <Milo-> as in readline/readline.h
Dec 16 22:29:29 <lcuk> Milo-, which version :)
Dec 16 22:29:53 <lcuk> with maemo, its generally not "blah is not supported" its "has anyone ported it yet"
Dec 16 22:30:12 <Milo-> well, I only talk about maemo5
Dec 16 22:30:27 <Milo-> and latest readline is from may 2008
Dec 16 22:30:33 <lcuk> so was i, libreadline 4 and 5 are available
Dec 16 22:31:08 <Milo-> BUGS
Dec 16 22:31:08 <Milo->        It's too big and too slow.
Dec 16 22:31:16 <Milo-> love that comment
Dec 16 22:31:30 <Milo-> actually I was more wondering if ash supported it
Dec 16 22:32:09 <Milo-> basic IO in bash seems to come directly from readline.h
Dec 16 22:32:10 <lcuk> get a device and find otu
Dec 16 22:32:16 <Milo-> I got one
Dec 16 22:32:25 <lcuk> or build the system you need
Dec 16 22:32:26 <Arkenoi> well, so what are primary candidates for freeing disk space on / ?
Dec 16 22:32:30 * lcuk beds anyway
Dec 16 22:32:31 <Milo-> but all the default bindings are missing
Dec 16 22:32:55 <Milo-> Arkenoi reboot takes off some caches
Dec 16 22:34:03 <Milo-> no idea why some caches are stored in / but never the less.
Dec 16 22:34:46 <crashanddie> Arkenoi: do you use apt-get?
Dec 16 22:35:15 <Milo-> crashanddie isn't the gui for software installations just a frontend to apt?
Dec 16 22:35:36 <crashanddie> no
Dec 16 22:35:42 <Milo-> oh
Dec 16 22:36:07 <crashanddie> when you use command line apt-get, it doesn't remove the .debs it downloaded
Dec 16 22:36:14 <crashanddie> so you need to clean out /var/apt/cache
Dec 16 22:36:17 <crashanddie> or something like that
Dec 16 22:36:22 <Milo-> btw, I want to keep the device's langauge 'English', but the date settings the way we Finns love to see the date, but when I change device to English, it won't let me touch the date-setting
Dec 16 22:36:38 <crashanddie> file a bug
Dec 16 22:37:05 <Milo-> ahh, /var/ isn't its own partition
Dec 16 22:37:12 <Milo-> I expected it to be
Dec 16 22:37:45 <granden> Is there any app, for screen recording?
Dec 16 22:38:37 <AbstractW> granden: VNC
Dec 16 22:38:58 <granden> And then record on my computer?
Dec 16 22:39:00 <granden> Or what
Dec 16 22:39:02 <AbstractW> granden: VNC server on the N900, then VNC client on any machine that you can use to record.
Dec 16 22:39:08 <granden> Hmm
Dec 16 22:39:15 <AbstractW> May not get you fluid video, but it'll be close.
Dec 16 22:39:47 <lcuk> vnc2swf is something to mention here
Dec 16 22:40:14 <Milo-> crashanddie not sure if it's a bug though
Dec 16 22:40:26 <crashanddie> Milo-: it's an enhancement request
Dec 16 22:40:39 <Milo-> the date format isn't allowed to be changed in any language
Dec 16 22:41:24 <Milo-> whoops, I always press 'skip' accidentally when it prompts my pin-code :P
Dec 16 22:42:23 <jon1012> what is the command name for the phone app ?
Dec 16 22:42:34 <jon1012> (I want to launch a call from api or command call)
Dec 16 22:42:43 <Milo-> you use dbus to launch it
Dec 16 22:42:49 <Milo-> wiki user:jebba
Dec 16 22:42:52 <jon1012> is there an example ?
Dec 16 22:42:56 <Milo-> yes
Dec 16 22:43:06 <Milo-> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba under dbus
Dec 16 22:44:07 <Arkenoi> crashanddie, sometimes
Dec 16 22:44:16 <jon1012> great thanks
Dec 16 22:44:24 <crashanddie> Arkenoi: then clean up your /var/apt/cache folder -- it contains old .deb files
Dec 16 22:46:17 <pupnik> it feels so good to browse web in links /console.   just the data...
Dec 16 22:50:42 <Corsac> Khertan: did you try to use freeplayer from your n900?
Dec 16 22:53:53 <Milo-> tekojo is going to hold a maemo+Qt course, but maemo.org only talks aboug gtk :/
Dec 16 22:54:12 <acidjazz> hai
Dec 16 22:54:46 <jon1012> strange, when I try to call it from python I get "dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "CreateWith" with signature "s" on interface "com.nokia.csd.Call" doesn't exist"
Dec 16 23:04:22 <jon1012> nevermind, found out :)
Dec 16 23:06:41 <lcuk> timeless, whats your favorite app on the n900 so far (not work related tho :p)
Dec 16 23:07:53 <ifreq> isnt vim top app for ages? :/
Dec 16 23:08:05 <lcuk> possibly is
Dec 16 23:08:13 <ifreq> <3
Dec 16 23:08:23 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: i don't use many apps...
Dec 16 23:08:48 <lcuk> why, whats missing, what would you use if it was there?
Dec 16 23:09:24 <ifreq> anyone remember this https://synthesize.us/Maemo_themes/LCARS_complete  from 770/possib 810 too?
Dec 16 23:10:15 <jon1012> updated http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control with a python example
Dec 16 23:10:23 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: thing is... i don't need much
Dec 16 23:10:46 <Proteous> complete google voice integration
Dec 16 23:10:58 <Proteous> seamless I should say
Dec 16 23:12:06 <lcuk> i would personally like to use translation services to at least try talking with people from other countries live
Dec 16 23:12:44 <lcuk> timeless, bah! then
Dec 16 23:14:02 <Laiska> Hmmm, have you guys transferred files (music / video) from PC to N900 via scp? First time I transferred music to ~/MyDocs/.music it seemed that the media player was unable to find the files..and now it works like a charm
Dec 16 23:14:17 <Laiska> sunspots or the position of the moon or is there a real trick to this?
Dec 16 23:14:45 <timeless_mbp> Laiska: tracker takes time before it finds stuff
Dec 16 23:15:17 <Laiska> timeless_mbp: Hmm okay, any way to force it (besides reboot)?
Dec 16 23:15:29 <timeless_mbp> and until it finds stuff, the media player won't show it
Dec 16 23:15:37 <ifreq> Laiska: your name really suits u
Dec 16 23:15:38 <ifreq> :)
Dec 16 23:15:44 <ifreq> think you chose it on purpose
Dec 16 23:15:45 <ifreq> *g*
Dec 16 23:16:02 <Laiska> ifreq: Aight :)
Dec 16 23:17:20 <ifreq> anyways think there was some cmd line option to reindex (having hard time to find it atm)
Dec 16 23:17:40 <crashanddie> best quote ever
Dec 16 23:17:42 <Laiska> Oh and a brainfart in my comment, s/.music/.sounds
Dec 16 23:18:13 <ifreq> crashanddie: aye :) missing the right search words atm .. and well 1:20 AM
Dec 16 23:18:27 <crashanddie> Company lawyer storms out of the CTO office, yelling: "This is the only god damn software company where people don't know what a frigging EULA is"
Dec 16 23:18:49 <Anidel> hi guys
Dec 16 23:18:51 <MuJ> eep
Dec 16 23:18:58 <Anidel> is here a GTK expert?
Dec 16 23:19:10 <Anidel> that knows about GTK UI Manager?
Dec 16 23:20:12 <Laiska> ifreq: Ok, google I must. Not a big problem per se, but when uploading music in ahurry it would be apprciated if they were usable right away
Dec 16 23:20:18 <ifreq> Laiska: Run tracker-processes -r as user in an xterm if youre in a hurry
Dec 16 23:20:22 <ifreq> thats the cmd line option :P
Dec 16 23:20:42 <Creteil> hi all
Dec 16 23:20:44 * Laiska hands a virtual banana to ifreq
Dec 16 23:20:52 <Laiska> cheers mate
Dec 16 23:20:59 <ifreq> dunno how often indexing is done without. tho i dont need instant access to new music :)
Dec 16 23:21:02 <ifreq> np
Dec 16 23:21:43 <Creteil> I'm running openvpn + openvpn-gui under my N900, all seem to work in terms of connections, btw I can't disconnect ... any idea ?
Dec 16 23:21:51 * Guest66573 thwaps Laiska with a large trout
Dec 16 23:22:31 <Laiska> mord: narf
Dec 16 23:22:36 <Laiska> :D
Dec 16 23:24:22 <johnsu01> hm, what's openvpn-gui?
Dec 16 23:24:23 <mord> hrmhrm
Dec 16 23:24:40 <johnsu01> openvpn worked fine from the shell for me but the applet package didn't seem to do anything
Dec 16 23:25:47 <range> johnsu01: You can reach the applet via the dropdown menu you can reach when touching the status area (where the battery is).
Dec 16 23:25:54 <Creteil> johnsu01: on my side the applet work for connecting, but the disconnect doesn't work (I have to killall openvpn) ...
Dec 16 23:26:05 <range> And here both work :)
Dec 16 23:26:24 <johnsu01> range: Yeah, the applet didn't add anything there for me. Maybe I need to restart.
Dec 16 23:26:41 <jon1012> what is the default lock code on n900 ?
Dec 16 23:26:50 <jon1012> I want to activate lock but it asks me the current lock code
Dec 16 23:26:52 <Creteil> range: can you give me the rights you have to the /etc/openvpn directory (wherever you put your vpn configs) ...
Dec 16 23:26:58 <range> 12345 as with most nokias.
Dec 16 23:27:08 <jon1012> thanks
Dec 16 23:27:19 <jon1012> (it's not in the printed docs unfortunately)
Dec 16 23:27:51 <Creteil> range: can you give me the rights you have to the /etc/openvpn directory (wherever you put your vpn configs) ...
Dec 16 23:28:12 <range> root:root 755
Dec 16 23:28:51 <jon1012> Creteil: I see you're in france, want to beta test an app for paris n900 owners ?
Dec 16 23:29:09 <wolf^> should qt applications do libosso initialization and cleanup?
Dec 16 23:29:16 <Creteil> jon1012: depending on what the application do, why not ?
Dec 16 23:29:48 <jon1012> Creteil: it's basically the mobile version of http://www.parisenvies.com a site about bars and restaurants :)
Dec 16 23:30:37 <jon1012> that letsyou ask for example "find me a japanese restaurant near here with a romantic ambiance that is not too expensive"
Dec 16 23:30:41 <jon1012> :)
Dec 16 23:31:20 <Creteil> jon1012: bof ... je suis casannier :-)
Dec 16 23:31:28 <range> Is there already a bug report open regarding the E-Mail client's use of localized "Re:" versions?
Dec 16 23:32:04 <wolf^> range, yes, and it's reported to be fixed
Dec 16 23:32:16 <Creteil> range: is there a way to see a debug output of openvpn-applet to see why it doesn't disconnect my vpn's ?
Dec 16 23:32:45 <range> wolf^: Do you have a bug number?
Dec 16 23:32:56 <range> Creteil: Yes. Under "manage connections" you can test connections.
Dec 16 23:33:30 <wolf^> range, 6541
Dec 16 23:33:35 <range> wolf^: Thanks.
Dec 16 23:35:33 <range> Saves me opening one (after I got my server to work with the mail client) :)
Dec 16 23:35:37 <Creteil> range: this test show me I can connect (I already know that) btw I try to show why when I tap to disconnect, this doesn't disconnect anything at all ...
Dec 16 23:35:47 <range> Ah. Hmm, no idea.
Dec 16 23:35:58 <range> Install and start syslogd?
Dec 16 23:36:20 <Creteil> range: apt-get install syslogd ???
Dec 16 23:37:48 <range> Or sysklogd, I only read about that (and you should only start it for debugging, as /var/log seems to be on the root fs, if I am not mistaken).
Dec 16 23:40:40 <Creteil> range: ok
Dec 16 23:41:09 <Creteil> range: so, I suppose by default under maemo syslogd doesn't autostart on boot ?
Dec 16 23:41:57 <range> As said, I didn't use it yet, but I guess that openvpn would log there.
Dec 16 23:44:19 <Creteil> range: look like openvpn-applet doesn't support spaces or specials characters in name of .ovpn file like : /var/run/openvpn.Mikli Events (Old).pid
Dec 16 23:46:40 <Creteil> range: do you know where I can get the 'less' console command (any package for the N900) ???
Dec 16 23:46:49 <range> No.
Dec 16 23:46:58 <Creteil> range: ok
Dec 16 23:51:06 <Creteil> range: btw do you think most packages for N810 can run under N900 ?
Dec 16 23:51:13 <GAN900> Depends
Dec 16 23:51:27 <GAN900> Creteil, it's probably is the SKD tools repo.
Dec 16 23:53:20 <range> Creteil: Just because I gave you one answer does not mean that I know the answer to all of your questions :)
Dec 16 23:54:24 <Creteil> range: yes, I know that :-)
Dec 17 00:11:47 <user__> hmm
Dec 17 00:12:10 <Lynoure> Gadgetoid_n900: hmm?
Dec 17 00:12:24 <Gadgetoid_n900> microB is currently in offline mode and cannot browse the web
Dec 17 00:12:35 <Lynoure> Gadgetoid_n900: is it?
Dec 17 00:12:57 <Gadgetoid_n900> uncheck "work offline" in the file menu...
Dec 17 00:13:13 <Lynoure> Gadgetoid_n900: I think I have gotten that once randomly, then closing the browsel and opening new one helped
Dec 17 00:13:19 <Gadgetoid_n900> Methinks that dialogue wants updating
Dec 17 00:13:58 <jon1012> what is the good way of getting the current theme icons ?
Dec 17 00:14:06 <jon1012> like the phone in the contact app ?
Dec 17 00:14:11 <jon1012> for my app buttons
Dec 17 00:15:41 <Gadgetoid_n900> just watched avatar in 3d.... long film is long
Dec 17 00:22:04 * timeless_mbp cries
Dec 17 00:22:06 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: ping
Dec 17 00:22:15 <timeless_mbp> Jaffa: ping
Dec 17 00:23:57 <Gadgetoid_n900> ahhhh sleeoytime
Dec 17 00:29:06 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, pong?
Dec 17 00:29:24 <Flandry> are the icons in maemo packages really 26x26?
Dec 17 00:29:47 <Flandry> *maemo5
Dec 17 00:30:05 <timeless_mbp> no
Dec 17 00:30:07 <timeless_mbp> 48x48
Dec 17 00:30:12 <timeless_mbp> surely that's documented somewhere
Dec 17 00:30:14 <Flandry> ok i'll update the wiki
Dec 17 00:30:25 <Flandry> http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging
Dec 17 00:30:35 <timeless_mbp> careful
Dec 17 00:30:39 <timeless_mbp> for maemo4 it was 26x26
Dec 17 00:30:39 <Flandry> well that's what i used before, but that page is wrong
Dec 17 00:30:53 <Flandry> will note that
Dec 17 00:31:10 <Flandry> seems that Maemo_packaging should be for current release, no?
Dec 17 00:31:31 <timeless_mbp> dunno
Dec 17 00:31:36 <timeless_mbp> i don't like wikis :)
Dec 17 00:32:15 <Flandry> beats nothing i guess
Dec 17 00:32:42 <jon1012> (mmh... there is still a big need for info on programming with pymaemo to have apps that use all the potential of n900...)
Dec 17 00:33:15 <jon1012> (I've found how to place calls, show notifications (simple and multiline), have buttons with native icons and so on... but it was documented very badly :()
Dec 17 00:33:33 <jon1012> (nearly no docs for all that)
Dec 17 00:36:11 <frals> feel free to add it to the wiki ;)
Dec 17 00:36:18 <jon1012> yup I'll doo
Dec 17 00:39:22 <Hydroxide> Stskeeps: follow-up on my GPS issue: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7057 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37256 - like those commenters, I was also able to solve the problem by switching to google's SUPL server
Dec 17 00:39:23 <povbot> Bug 7057: supl.nokia.com not working for Networking positioning on T-Mobile USA
Dec 17 00:39:26 <jon1012> going to sleep, good night everybody
Dec 17 00:40:18 <cehteh> cool to tell google always where you are .. i have already concerns with nokia but uhm
Dec 17 00:40:49 <Hydroxide> cehteh: well, go ahead nokia, fix your SUPL server or work with T-Mobile if they're the problem :) (etc etc)
Dec 17 00:41:11 <Hydroxide> cehteh: hopefully the bug and thread will produce a useful result
Dec 17 00:41:14 <cehteh> Hydroxide: actually i want reasnonable standalong gps :/
Dec 17 00:41:26 <Hydroxide> cehteh: yeah, that's hard to obtain in a cell chip
Dec 17 00:42:08 <cehteh> might become a dealbreaker for me
Dec 17 00:42:19 <nezb> has anyone here tried to buy an extended warranty from Nokia only to be told you can't since it is after purchase?
Dec 17 00:42:36 <cehteh> whats extended?
Dec 17 00:42:45 <nezb> they want me to return the N900 and buy a new one just to get the extra year warranty for $50 more
Dec 17 00:42:55 <n900ev11> hmm
Dec 17 00:42:57 <cehteh> usa? :)
Dec 17 00:43:01 <nezb> USA ..
Dec 17 00:43:06 <Flandry> oh that's funny: XB-Maemo-Icon-26 is still the valid field name, even though the icon is 48 pix now
Dec 17 00:43:13 <cehteh> well you get the n900 dirt cheap
Dec 17 00:43:16 <Hydroxide> cehteh: you know, I don't believe the SUPL server actually learns your location. or at least not mandatorily. I think it depends on which location mechanism you use
Dec 17 00:43:20 <nezb> "dirt cheap" - hardly
Dec 17 00:43:28 <cehteh> here in europe 2 years are by law anyways
Dec 17 00:43:41 <nezb> cehteh: what does that have to do with it anyway?
Dec 17 00:44:05 <Hydroxide> nezb: you should see what your credit card offers... many credit cards will give you an extra year of warranty when the manufacturer's warranty is not more than a year
Dec 17 00:44:14 <cehteh> 600Euros are about 850dollars or what?
Dec 17 00:44:22 <nezb> Hydroxide: It was a regular VISA card so no :(
Dec 17 00:44:32 <n900ev11> i am having problems bringing up wlan0 when cell data is up. i have ifconfiged- but cannot find iwconfig/wpa_suppolicant toauth
Dec 17 00:44:33 <nezb> cehteh: oh wow, that sucks :\ mine was USD$500
Dec 17 00:44:38 <pupnik> Do not use Sprint
Dec 17 00:44:40 <n900ev11> thoughts?
Dec 17 00:44:47 <Hydroxide> nezb: "regular"?
Dec 17 00:44:52 <Hydroxide> nezb: you mean a debit card?
Dec 17 00:44:55 <cehteh> now you see europeans pay premium for customer laws
Dec 17 00:45:02 <n900ev11> ceht: some of europe
Dec 17 00:45:09 <nezb> Hydroxide: no just a credit card, but there's no "extras" like that attached to it
Dec 17 00:45:22 <pupnik> and for taxes on every economic activty - 300 percent gas tax for e.g.
Dec 17 00:45:23 <cehteh> yeah i dont know if its the same throughout europe
Dec 17 00:45:27 <nezb> cehteh: :\
Dec 17 00:45:28 <n900ev11> ceh: 12 mo in uk
Dec 17 00:45:40 <wazd_n800> ~seen VDVsx
Dec 17 00:45:43 <infobot> vdvsx <n=Valerio@Maemo/community/council/VDVsx> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 2h 1m 34s ago, saying: 'jeremiah, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36312'.
Dec 17 00:45:48 <nezb> 12 month warranty is rather short...
Dec 17 00:46:02 <Hydroxide> nezb: they don't advertise them very much - you have to look at the guide to benefits that comes with your card, or ask them to send it to you again if you've lost it
Dec 17 00:46:14 <cehteh> in germany you have 2 years and your dealer is rasponsible, not the manufacturer .. just send it back, he even has to cover all shipping fares
Dec 17 00:46:17 <nezb> Hydroxide: I will call them and ask
Dec 17 00:46:23 <n900ev11> pup 300? where! I want some :/
Dec 17 00:46:29 <wazd_n800> nezb: DDP devices have 1w warranty ;)
Dec 17 00:46:31 <nezb> Hydroxide: should have used an AMEX card instead of VISA
Dec 17 00:46:50 <Hydroxide> nezb: mine is a mastercard and it offers this... I believe many visa cards offer it too
Dec 17 00:46:52 <n900ev11> anyhone tethered wife?
Dec 17 00:46:52 <nezb> wazd_n800: ddp?
Dec 17 00:46:55 <Hydroxide> nezb: it depends
Dec 17 00:46:55 <n900ev11> wifi
Dec 17 00:47:15 <wazd_n800> nezb: developer device program
Dec 17 00:47:17 <Hydroxide> nezb: generally ones that call themselves "platinum" or "world" or similar
Dec 17 00:47:53 <nezb> wazd_n800: but aren't those devices special?
Dec 17 00:48:22 <wazd_n800> nezb: they are usually broken, otherwise no
Dec 17 00:48:37 <nezb> Hydroxide: I just think it is strange Nokia refuses to sell it to me after-the-fact
Dec 17 00:48:43 <Hydroxide> cehteh: you should look into the difference between ACWP and AGNSS... from the little info I can find on wiki.maemo.org it looks like one of them probably doesn't involve the SUPL server learning your website and the other one does
Dec 17 00:49:02 <Hydroxide> nezb: many extended warranties are like that. not just nokia's. others have a time period after the purchase where you can add the warranty
Dec 17 00:49:15 <Hydroxide> nezb: at least you were offered it - I live in one of the two US states where they don't offer it at all
Dec 17 00:49:20 <Hydroxide> nezb: so I'm glad for my credit card benefit
Dec 17 00:49:30 <n900ev11> argh
Dec 17 00:49:34 <nezb> Hydroxide: where do they not offer _any_ warranty?
Dec 17 00:49:35 <cehteh> Hydroxide: learning my website?
Dec 17 00:49:43 <Hydroxide> nezb: no, they have the standard 12mo one
Dec 17 00:49:56 <Hydroxide> cehteh: are you the wiki master?
Dec 17 00:50:16 <cehteh> eh?
Dec 17 00:50:23 <cehteh> what wiki master? :)
Dec 17 00:50:31 <Hydroxide> cehteh: oh, I made a typo
Dec 17 00:50:35 <n900ev11> what software deals with network interface config?
Dec 17 00:50:42 <Hydroxide> cehteh: "learning your website" should have been "learning your location". makes sense now? :)
Dec 17 00:50:48 <cehteh> yes
Dec 17 00:50:49 <n900ev11> i am having problems bringing up wlan0 when cell data is up. i have ifconfiged- but cannot find iwconfig/wpa_suppolicant toauth
Dec 17 00:51:00 <nezb> n900ev11: /sbin/iwconfig?
Dec 17 00:51:24 <n900ev11> nezb: that would be too easy.
Dec 17 00:51:28 <cehteh> well there is a lot things which can be inferred even if not supplying the location information directly
Dec 17 00:51:35 <n900ev11> oh - pathological
Dec 17 00:51:38 <n900ev11> path
Dec 17 00:51:55 <Hydroxide> cehteh: not sure. if all it's doing is sending you the current GPS ephemeris to make it quicker to lock onto the satellites, that doesn't tell much
Dec 17 00:52:03 <cehteh> and did anyone of you did a tcpdump on a AGPS request?
Dec 17 00:52:43 <nezb> Hydroxide: just called VISA, you were right, thanks :)
Dec 17 00:52:44 <cehteh> it gets your current ip, provider, online time .. if its http it might include cookies and other supplemental data
Dec 17 00:52:52 <n900ev11> nezb: nope
Dec 17 00:53:03 <Hydroxide> cehteh: that's what I would expect, yeah. and it's not http
Dec 17 00:53:14 <Hydroxide> cehteh: and not via the browser either
Dec 17 00:53:23 <odin_> how are bluetooth keyboard keymappings setup ?
Dec 17 00:53:27 <cehteh> IMEI, gps serial number, ... whatever
Dec 17 00:53:57 <Hydroxide> cehteh: the specs for the protocol are public if you want to look
Dec 17 00:54:26 <Hydroxide> cehteh: and there's a reasonable chance that the relevant bit of nokia/maemo source code is available - not sure exactly
Dec 17 00:54:42 <cehteh> iirc thats exactly the stuff which is not open
Dec 17 00:55:08 <cehteh> i didnt checked yet .. i dont have a device either
Dec 17 00:55:21 <Hydroxide> ah
Dec 17 00:55:32 <odin_> generic-bluetooth 0005:0000:0000.0002: input: BLUETOOTH HID v0.00 Keyboard [VKB Keyboard] on 34:7E:39:5B:A4:61
Dec 17 00:55:42 <cehteh> well a tcpdump should give some info too
Dec 17 00:56:43 <Hydroxide> cehteh: not if it uses SSL as it might. but, as I said, the protocol is public
Dec 17 00:57:02 <Hydroxide> cehteh: I believe it's SUPL 1.0. (if not, it's a newer version of SUPL)
Dec 17 00:57:07 <Hydroxide> cehteh: the open mobile alliance has pdfs)
Dec 17 00:57:10 <Hydroxide> s/)//
Dec 17 00:57:11 <infobot> Hydroxide meant: cehteh: the open mobile alliance has pdfs
Dec 17 00:57:21 <Hydroxide> heh
Dec 17 00:57:42 <cehteh> hehe
Dec 17 00:58:14 <n900evil> are there timeshared n900s?
Dec 17 00:58:30 <odin_> hmm... does bluetooth keyboard + WLAN work well?  since I fired up my keyboard the WLAN now has a TCP SendQ
Dec 17 00:58:36 <n900evil> as in pubic ones?
Dec 17 01:00:04 <Hydroxide> n900evil: I think you're missing a very relevant "l" :)
Dec 17 01:01:24 <odin_> yes my WLAN ssh connect into N900 definately stops/stutters when my Bluetooth wireless keyboard is turned on
Dec 17 01:03:36 <SpeedEvil> xchat over 3g - the phone gets noticably warm
Dec 17 01:04:25 <SpeedEvil> Admittedly, my ambient temp is 7C, but still.
Dec 17 01:04:30 <simula> heh
Dec 17 01:05:25 * SpeedEvil tries to work out how to tether via wifi now his laptop works.
Dec 17 01:08:39 <luke-jr_> SpeedEvil: with Linux or with Maemo?
Dec 17 01:08:45 <SpeedEvil> linux
Dec 17 01:09:04 <SpeedEvil> I'm currently just trying to convince the n900 to bring up both interfaces
Dec 17 01:09:12 <SpeedEvil> wlan0 and phone
Dec 17 01:09:24 <SpeedEvil> then ssh -D will do for the moment
Dec 17 01:09:48 <Arkenoi> does irreco launch lircd authmatically on your phones? i have to do that via xterm, quite annoying
Dec 17 01:12:25 <luke-jr_> SpeedEvil: is 3G ppp?
Dec 17 01:12:35 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 17 01:12:44 <luke-jr_> can you run dual ppp sessions? :D
Dec 17 01:12:46 <SpeedEvil> well - I don't care
Dec 17 01:12:50 <luke-jr_> ssh n900 pppd ...
Dec 17 01:12:53 <SpeedEvil> as I understand it yes
Dec 17 01:12:59 <SpeedEvil> but not that way probably
Dec 17 01:13:15 * SpeedEvil wonders if iwconfig is in repos
Dec 17 01:15:26 <odin_> ah where can I get "evtest" compiled for N900 ?
Dec 17 01:16:32 <odin_> yes linux support multiple PPP connections at the same time, now if the firmware might accidentally interfere with a connection it doesn't manage/know about, is another matter (maybe even a bug)
Dec 17 01:16:51 <SpeedEvil> odin_: that's a sligtly different matter to the 3g interface doing it.
Dec 17 01:17:09 <SpeedEvil> odin_: as I understand it, it does, but a process needs to multiplex between these.
Dec 17 01:17:20 <SpeedEvil> This may or may not be the phonet device
Dec 17 01:17:26 <odin_> oh you mean "Bonding" ? as in MPPP ?
Dec 17 01:17:35 <SpeedEvil> no
Dec 17 01:17:50 <SpeedEvil> I mean connections to multiple APNs over the same 3G hardware
Dec 17 01:18:45 <odin_> ah yes that requires input from hardware support to do it
Dec 17 01:19:17 <odin_> I am lucky at the moment, since N900 doesn't support WAP or MMS then there is only Internet Access left
Dec 17 01:20:05 <odin_> ah.. why you you think "a process needs to multiple betwee these." ??
Dec 17 01:20:58 <odin_> the hardware/driver needs to provide a multiplexing transport, this might be achieved on seperate devices /dev/foo0 /dev/foo1 etc... or might be achieved by one device but with a unique instance when it is opened /dev/foo
Dec 17 01:21:00 <SpeedEvil> odin_: because there are for the phone interface lowest levels - several modes
Dec 17 01:21:01 <pupnik> my provider (tschibo/o2) in germany wont let me dial or use internet
Dec 17 01:21:36 <SpeedEvil> odin_: you can for example use 'at' commands to dial and do stuff - but this means that you can't get call notifications inside gprs
Dec 17 01:21:42 <odin_> but the pppd and ppp stack of linux does not need to do anything special, its a device driver/capability issue
Dec 17 01:22:00 <SpeedEvil> odin_: you need to use the channel functionality of the underlying hardware - to seperate out command and data.
Dec 17 01:22:14 <SpeedEvil> odin_: and the same functionality enables multiple apns at once - as I understand it.
Dec 17 01:22:20 <pupnik> wish i could turn the phone off
Dec 17 01:23:04 <odin_> I don't know what modem unit is in the N900, but some standalone GSM modules with serial/AT interface provide a way of multiplexing AT command/response and GPRS data
Dec 17 01:23:23 <odin_> but I have never heard of one that can multiple multuple streams of GPRS data (which is what u ask originally)
Dec 17 01:23:26 <ds3> CMUX
Dec 17 01:24:11 <odin_> s/that can multiple multuple streams/that can multiplex multiple streams/
Dec 17 01:24:12 <infobot> odin_ meant: but I have never heard of one that can multiplex multiple streams of GPRS data (which is what u ask originally)
Dec 17 01:27:16 <pupnik> can media player play files on mmc1?  appears t ignore card
Dec 17 01:27:20 <SpeedEvil> actually,it's not.
Dec 17 01:27:37 <SpeedEvil> I originally asked forhow to bring upwifi interface when phone was active.
Dec 17 01:27:41 <odin_> pupnik, mine can find/play from MMC bit I have them in a directory /media/mmc1/Music/
Dec 17 01:28:17 <odin_> pupnik, I never thought the name "Music" was significant and I always uploaded via USB Storage controller (do I guess it auto-indexes)
Dec 17 01:29:50 <odin_> SpeedEvil, but which "default route" do you want it to take ?  yes I think the hardware can achieve it, but for what purpose?
Dec 17 01:30:40 <odin_> SpeedEvil, the only issue is the "default route" and possible a set of IP address+netmask list of "policy routing overrides" for destination IPs you want to not take the default route
Dec 17 01:31:15 <odin_> SpeedEvil, obviously directly attached networks always do the correct thing
Dec 17 01:32:15 <odin_> SpeedEvil, the policy routing stuff needs to have been enabled in the kernel and is configurable with "/bin/ip" from a normal linux box
Dec 17 01:33:18 <SpeedEvil> odin_: I simply - for the moment - want 10.* over wifi - and * over 3g
Dec 17 01:33:39 <SpeedEvil> this is actually what I have setup at the moment - but the wifi encryption is not setup - so it's not working
Dec 17 01:33:51 <SpeedEvil> then ssh -D on the phone to setup a socks proxy
Dec 17 01:34:54 <SpeedEvil> I have ifconfig up'd the interface - but lack iwconfig or wpa_supplicant to bring up WAP
Dec 17 01:35:13 <odin_> take a look at: /etc/udhcpc/libicd_network_ipv4.script
Dec 17 01:35:29 <odin_> get the default route for wlan to be "metric 1"
Dec 17 01:35:59 <SpeedEvil> the issue isn't the routing
Dec 17 01:36:19 <SpeedEvil> It's simply that the interface is not bringing up WAP
Dec 17 01:36:19 <odin_> no but the issue _WILL_BE_
Dec 17 01:36:32 * SpeedEvil gets out of bed to grab phone
Dec 17 01:36:46 <SpeedEvil> no, it's not, there is no routing issue
Dec 17 01:36:47 <odin_> until you have the wlan0 always adding a default route with metric 1, there is no point working on getting GPRS up as well
Dec 17 01:37:03 <SpeedEvil> ssh -D on the phone - setup a socks proxy.
Dec 17 01:37:16 <SpeedEvil> configure pidgin and firefox to point to that socks proxy
Dec 17 01:37:18 <SpeedEvil> job done
Dec 17 01:37:39 <SpeedEvil> If both interfaces are up, and the route to the localnet points to wifi - as it does
Dec 17 01:37:59 <odin_> ok what happens when the GPRC iface goes down ?
Dec 17 01:38:13 <odin_> ah damn.. you don't have the default route the wlan setup again, you loose it
Dec 17 01:38:23 <odin_> *GPRS
Dec 17 01:39:19 <odin_> the idea is simply to provide your preference to priority for defautl route, (you want it to be GPRS when up, and I presume WLAN when WLAN is up but GPRS is down, etc..)
Dec 17 01:39:37 <n900evil> route is irre
Dec 17 01:39:59 <n900evil> levant if both interfaces are not up
Dec 17 01:40:54 <SpeedEvil> wacky
Dec 17 01:41:04 <SpeedEvil> my DSL connection - this one - has ~120s of delay
Dec 17 01:41:11 <odin_> not sure Im fully understanding you comments from n900evil
Dec 17 01:41:33 <SpeedEvil> n900evil: = me.
Dec 17 01:41:35 * Arkenoi tries to re-route incoming cellular calls to sip when it is available. can cut roaming costs to effective zero if it works..
Dec 17 01:41:36 <SpeedEvil> To recap.
Dec 17 01:42:38 <SpeedEvil> I have currently set the routes and brought up wlan0 manually - if I could get WAP logged in - this would be a simple case of running ssh -D on the phone to setup a SOCKS proxy server, and it just works.
Dec 17 01:43:18 <SpeedEvil> Yes, routes are of course important to do it 'properly' - but the phone will not bring up both interfaces at once - by default - so that's a bit irrelevant.
Dec 17 01:46:13 <odin_> "icd" just need to be improved
Dec 17 01:49:25 <odin_> check out.... /etc/udhcpc/default.bound for "route del default"  .. this will kill your GPRS thats running
Dec 17 01:50:53 <odin_> and /etc/gprs/icd-gprs-up.sh for I guess GPRS stuff
Dec 17 01:54:54 <SpeedEvil> that looks relevant.
Dec 17 01:55:15 * SpeedEvil wishes sshing back into the phone over gprs was plausible
Dec 17 01:56:20 <SpeedEvil> sorry I'm nto being as clear as i might be tonight, and thanks for the help
Dec 17 02:01:00 <odin_> SpeedEvil, no need to apologise
Dec 17 02:01:25 <odin_> does anyone have SDK installed and running?  can they try to compile: http://beagleboard.googlecode.com/files/evtest.c please
Dec 17 02:02:05 <SpeedEvil> odin_: cheesy alternative
Dec 17 02:02:17 <SpeedEvil> odin_: the records are 16 bytes long
Dec 17 02:02:24 <SpeedEvil> odin_: hexdump
Dec 17 02:02:37 <SpeedEvil> and yes, it's less useful for some things
Dec 17 02:02:40 <odin_> actually that link is v1.23 and I see 1.25 is around
Dec 17 02:03:36 <odin_> trying to map my Bluetooth keyboard, the iTech laser thing, as a number of keys do not work
Dec 17 02:05:32 <odin_> maybe I check the CDROM that came with it lols
Dec 17 02:07:14 <SpeedEvil> How are you setting up bt?
Dec 17 02:08:22 <odin_> setting up?
Dec 17 02:09:04 <odin_> I switched it on... activated pairing... N900 did its thing, offered a random code... I typed code into keyboard.... paired... now it half works as expected, I switch it on and letters/numbers work
Dec 17 02:09:19 <SpeedEvil> What steps are needed to setup a bt keyboard - I diddn't see anything obvious - and hte 'bluemaemo' thing or whatever its name was installed - and.
Dec 17 02:09:20 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Dec 17 02:09:50 <SpeedEvil> diddn't work when I tried it like that.
Dec 17 02:09:56 <SpeedEvil> maybe I need to retry.
Dec 17 02:10:01 <SpeedEvil> batteries may have been dead
Dec 17 02:11:53 <odin_> I agree with someone post, the audio jack of on the wrong side of the device, it should be on left side (since headphones are wired up that way too)
Dec 17 02:12:22 <Arkenoi> how much does iTech keyboard cost? i thinked about buying one, but it is hard to find..
Dec 17 02:13:57 <odin_> also to fix this issue about host-mode-usb, why don't we petition to have a *additional* USB-Mini-B connector on the next model
Dec 17 02:14:13 <odin_> Arkenoi, I think I paid around $129
Dec 17 02:14:39 <SpeedEvil> odin_: personally, I want usb-over-headphone-connector
Dec 17 02:15:58 <odin_> surely a mobile computer (as opposed to a "smart phone") MUST have a host-mode USB port, so just keep the existing USB-Micro-A connectors for OTG and charging and provide an additional and independant connector for host-mode (which is capable of running a memory stick, 100mA max or something)
Dec 17 02:16:38 <Arkenoi> odin: is it handy? having *no* tactile feedback must suck. but it looks incredibly cool ;-)
Dec 17 02:17:20 <odin_> Arkenoi, only had it a few days, not had time to play with it, main focus is setting it up propertly (so all punct/control keys works correctly)
Dec 17 02:17:36 * odin_ wonders if you are allowed to take a laser device onto an airplane ?
Dec 17 02:18:21 <odin_> the issue I am seeing at the moment, is when I switch it on, my SSH session to the N900 starts to degrade, to the point of TCP retries and stuff
Dec 17 02:18:58 <odin_> so my concerns are, if I use BT VKB will I loose WLAN (which kind of defeats part of the point of the setup)
Dec 17 02:20:05 <odin_> Arkenoi, it does a key click sound, and I want to sort out the "debounce" problem, maybe turning down the sensitity will fix it, but it appears too easy to double press something when trying to type normally
Dec 17 02:22:27 * Arkenoi thinks on iTech keyboard + 3m pocket projector combo ;-)
Dec 17 02:23:13 <odin_> hmmm... but no host-mode-usb to USB displays+ BT mouse :(
Dec 17 02:23:31 <SpeedEvil> odin_: what if you turn off powersave
Dec 17 02:24:34 <shiznebit> anyone know how you can completely screwed an omap processor
Dec 17 02:24:36 <odin_> I'd really like a netbook sized LCD on USB (with self-power option), the LCD must be 1024 or 1280 (i.e. better then N900 as-is)
Dec 17 02:24:46 <shiznebit> to the point where it completely sucks
Dec 17 02:25:14 <odin_> ok some keys just dont plan work on keyboard!  Q W A (maybe its setup for NL ?)
Dec 17 02:25:14 <lcuk> odin_, just buy a netbook
Dec 17 02:25:24 <shiznebit> odin i got a touchbook
Dec 17 02:25:29 <odin_> lcuk, no I dont want to always carry around a netbook
Dec 17 02:25:45 <odin_> lcuk, I just want to carry around the bits I need at the time or just a phone at other times
Dec 17 02:26:08 <shiznebit> odin_, http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/
Dec 17 02:26:13 <shiznebit> im selling mine for $200
Dec 17 02:26:56 <Macer> odin_: i usually carry my bt keyboard and my phone.. but i have a G1
Dec 17 02:26:59 <Macer> no god office apps
Dec 17 02:29:54 <xorAxAx> Macer: which keyboard do you have?
Dec 17 02:29:57 <odin_> shiznebit, nice idea... really need 1280xwhatever for something that size
Dec 17 02:30:04 <Macer> nokia su8w
Dec 17 02:30:37 <Macer> god/good
Dec 17 02:30:38 <Macer> heh
Dec 17 02:30:55 <Macer> xorAxAx: used to use it with my n810 a ton... going to get an n900 sooner or later
Dec 17 02:30:55 <shiznebit> odin_, well its 1024
Dec 17 02:31:28 <xorAxAx> Macer: i mean the bt kb
Dec 17 02:31:52 <Macer> i said
Dec 17 02:31:57 <Macer> a nokia su8w
Dec 17 02:32:20 <Macer> it's a nokia folding portable bt keyboard
Dec 17 02:32:26 <odin_> yeah this keyboard isn't usable as-is not all keys are mapped
Dec 17 02:33:05 <Macer> heh. well. the su8w works for the most part
Dec 17 02:33:18 <Macer> kind of odd on the G1 though.. plus the G1 is a pain to connect to
Dec 17 02:33:49 <Macer> have to do it manually every time
Dec 17 02:33:53 <Macer> from the terminal
Dec 17 02:34:01 <odin_> X11 says: VKB Keyboard: Found 4 mouse buttons, VKB Keyboard: Found x and y relative axes, VKB Keyboard: Found scroll wheel(s), VKB Keyboard: Found keys, ...
Dec 17 02:35:25 <odin_> hmm "od -x /dev/input/event4" does not look like fun.. 1 keypress = 6 events
Dec 17 02:37:00 <SpeedEvil> press and release/
Dec 17 02:37:28 <odin_> sure yep... each makes 3 packets of 16bytes ?   as in KEY_DOWN and KEY_UP
Dec 17 02:37:58 <odin_> I think I shall wait until I have compiled evtest.c
Dec 17 02:38:09 <odin_> (which shall be next year)
Dec 17 02:40:31 <odin_> when you use your Nokia SU8W with N900, what does /tmp/X.log say ?
Dec 17 02:40:41 <Macer> i don't have an n900 yet
Dec 17 02:40:47 <Macer> i use it with my G1 and my n810
Dec 17 02:40:58 <shiznebit> Macer, don't get the n900
Dec 17 02:40:59 <odin_> does N810 have /etc/X.log ?
Dec 17 02:41:15 <Macer> er. i'm sure it might. not sure really. never had a need to look at the X log :)
Dec 17 02:41:23 <shiznebit> just wait until the N9999 comes out
Dec 17 02:41:28 <Macer> naw
Dec 17 02:41:30 <Macer> n910
Dec 17 02:41:35 <Macer> with a compass
Dec 17 02:41:35 <shiznebit> n911
Dec 17 02:41:37 <Macer> AND VIDEO!
Dec 17 02:41:49 <shiznebit> you'll need to call the cops, CAUSE IT WORKS
Dec 17 02:42:02 <Macer> i need an n900 anyways. my death ray broke on my n810
Dec 17 02:42:12 <shiznebit> your death ray ?
Dec 17 02:42:14 <odin_> I mean /tmp/Xorg.0.log  mine has "(II) VKB Keyboard: Found keys" for example.. I'd like to knwo if yours says "(II) nokiasu8w: Found keys"
Dec 17 02:42:17 <Raytray> I'm ray
Dec 17 02:42:23 <odin_> i.e. the label is there or not
Dec 17 02:42:39 <Macer> odin_: when i wake up i'll try it ;)
Dec 17 02:42:50 <Macer> i'm copying stuff to my n810 now
Dec 17 02:43:12 <Macer> i actually only got it to hook it up to my day by day car
Dec 17 02:43:26 <Macer> so i could use a bt obd2 thing and carman
Dec 17 02:43:28 <odin_> infact it might be "(II) Nokia SU-8W: Found keys"
Dec 17 02:43:36 <Macer> BUT.. my 94 caprice doesn't have an obd2 port
Dec 17 02:43:42 <Macer> it has some obd1.5 crap
Dec 17 02:44:07 <Macer> and the n810 is useless in my 2009 tahoe :)
Dec 17 02:44:10 <Macer> heh
Dec 17 02:44:52 <Macer> i just wanted to add a little tech to my old 94 caprice :)
Dec 17 02:47:15 <GAN900> Raytray, random.
Dec 17 02:47:47 <Raytray> GAN900, They were talking about death rays :P
Dec 17 02:47:55 <Raytray> Highlighted me twice. :(
Dec 17 02:51:03 <Macer> haha
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 17 02:59:58 2009