**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 26 02:59:56 2009 Dec 26 03:00:07 I'm out Dec 26 03:37:35 merry christmas! :D Dec 26 03:39:29 merry xmas to you too :) Dec 26 03:40:05 thanks Dec 26 03:40:22 seems a bit quiet, but I guess EU isn't awake yet... Dec 26 03:41:10 yeah, we are sleeping currently Dec 26 03:41:23 since it's 4:41 am Dec 26 03:41:47 you type pretty well for being asleep... Dec 26 03:49:26 oh thanks, it's my hobby Dec 26 03:49:39 johnx: Mary Christ Mass! Dec 26 03:50:20 luke-jr, and good will towards dudes :D Dec 26 03:50:38 johnx: that is a blatent mistranslation -.- Dec 26 03:51:04 why does screen blank function affect composite video? is it intended behavior, a bug or design limitation? Dec 26 03:51:24 johnx: "Glory to God in the highest; and on Earth, peace to men of good will." Dec 26 03:51:55 where should I report to if application from -devel seems to work perfectly and I want to promote it to testing? Dec 26 03:51:59 johnx: you only get teh peace if you already are of good will :p Dec 26 03:52:22 luke-jr, I'm not religious. I'm just more of a golden-rule type guy ;) Dec 26 03:52:48 Milo-, if you're not the person who put it there, try and find the person who *did* put it there and tell them I think Dec 26 03:52:48 johnx: bah humbug to you too then Dec 26 03:53:29 johnx okay Dec 26 03:53:53 though, I need to check if the app is optified first Dec 26 03:54:01 luke-jr, :D but really, doesn't the whole religion thing distill down to "Do as you would be done by"? Dec 26 03:54:39 johnx: nope Dec 26 03:54:44 johnx: it's a common misconception, actually relegion is not about ethics at all Dec 26 03:55:45 flashlight doesn't seem to be optified Dec 26 03:55:55 shame on those devels Dec 26 03:56:07 i can't imagine flashlight being that big though Dec 26 03:56:08 how much does it keep in / ? Dec 26 03:56:35 johnx: "Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword." :p Dec 26 03:56:37 SmilyOrg small things will build up to a oot Dec 26 03:56:46 alot, even Dec 26 03:57:15 and all packages should be optified Dec 26 03:57:33 true Dec 26 03:57:42 ah, really? I guess I never kept up with what Nokia wanted Dec 26 03:58:03 huh, though if everything is supposed to be optified, I wonder why they don't do it at install time... Dec 26 03:58:13 unless the smaller flash is faster or something Dec 26 03:58:26 it is Dec 26 03:58:32 that's why Nokia uses it ;) Dec 26 03:58:57 otherwise they could keep / where /opt is and not have to worry about this "optify" stuff Dec 26 03:59:04 johnx i think that there's a thing that can optify packages, but isn't finished/robust enough or something? Dec 26 03:59:19 yeah, i guess :) Dec 26 04:00:35 * Arkenoi still does not have enough courage to try cp -Rp /usr/share /home/share; ln -sfT /home/share /usr/share Dec 26 04:01:17 linking can brick your device Dec 26 04:01:23 Arkenoi, and your lack of courage has kept your device booting. congratulations Dec 26 04:01:24 Arkenoi: why not mv? Dec 26 04:01:37 /usr should never be needed for booting Dec 26 04:01:39 brick is an awful strong word. but it probably won't boot until you reflash Dec 26 04:01:41 much less /usr/share Dec 26 04:01:46 johnx: why should it break? Dec 26 04:02:05 because /opt is mounted after stuff in /usr is needed Dec 26 04:02:14 Arkenoi some necessary parts are in there Dec 26 04:02:15 ... Dec 26 04:02:33 though Dec 26 04:02:44 mount order CAN be changed Dec 26 04:03:12 Is there any *good* multiprotocal chat client for maemo/ Dec 26 04:03:17 protocol* Dec 26 04:03:27 i have 90+% used space on / and i wonder if i will be able to perform system update when it is available Dec 26 04:03:28 AakashPatel, the default one and pidgin is there I think Dec 26 04:03:45 pidgin sucks on the n900 Dec 26 04:03:47 >.> Dec 26 04:03:57 Milo-, yup. and if you start getting into messing with that I have some ideas and suggestions, too Dec 26 04:03:58 (the integration) Dec 26 04:04:07 yeah. no surprise :P Dec 26 04:04:38 I wonder how hard it would be to make pidgin-facebookchat work with the chat client in maemo Dec 26 04:04:53 and i guess if i change mount order it almost certainly breaks things if i do update the core system components Dec 26 04:05:27 some unexpected parts may be overwritten and i will get bricked Dec 26 04:05:34 AakashPatel, probably not too hard. Does it work with the telepathy IM client in gnome? Dec 26 04:05:48 Hmmm lemme see Dec 26 04:05:51 Arkenoi, well. not bricked. but a reflash is certainly likely Dec 26 04:06:08 http://code.google.com/p/pidgin-facebookchat/ Dec 26 04:06:10 erm wrong window Dec 26 04:06:30 what I think is kind of interesting is something like unionfs and letting the core system stay in the small flash, while "extras" apps install to /opt automagically Dec 26 04:07:00 so i am looking for most non-intrusive way to free some space on / (but not uninstalling, optifying and reinstalling everything by hand) Dec 26 04:07:10 preferably something that can be done on the live system Dec 26 04:07:22 Empathy / Telepathy-Haze Dec 26 04:07:31 johnx: is that what you mean? Dec 26 04:07:39 yup Dec 26 04:07:42 :0 Dec 26 04:07:46 Arkenoi, look up ccooke's script on talk.maemo.org and let it optify the maps stuff Dec 26 04:07:51 it works in ubuntu on empathy Dec 26 04:07:52 ive used it Dec 26 04:08:13 yeah. the built-in client uses the telepathy stuff. there are some plugins for it in extras-devel Dec 26 04:08:22 do you have the maemo sdk installed? Dec 26 04:08:24 Yessuh Dec 26 04:08:32 get cracking! Dec 26 04:08:34 Do i just cross compile it? Dec 26 04:08:36 and install? Dec 26 04:09:28 no idea really :) Dec 26 04:09:40 Well, should it just install like how it does on ubuntu? Dec 26 04:09:42 johnx, thanks, will try it Dec 26 04:09:47 the same way it works in empathy? Dec 26 04:11:03 uhm. I actually don't know. you'll probably want to get the source package for "telepathy-account-plugins" or similar on maemo, then get the source for your facebook chat plugin, then start digging Dec 26 04:11:15 Eh okay Dec 26 04:18:44 This should be fun >.< Dec 26 04:19:35 diff will be your new best friend ;) Dec 26 04:22:26 Lol Dec 26 04:25:12 Hmm okay on ubuntu i had to install the package and then delete /usr/share/telepathy/managers/haze.manager Dec 26 04:29:29 hmm does telepathy-haze exist for maemo? Dec 26 04:29:42 yeah. I think so Dec 26 04:29:49 in extras-devel Dec 26 04:29:51 zomg Dec 26 04:29:51 telepathy-haze is one of the main packages used for IM. Dec 26 04:29:53 thats all i need Dec 26 04:29:55 yeah Dec 26 04:29:57 :D Dec 26 04:30:04 im happy as hell right now Dec 26 04:30:05 So yes, Haze does exist... and the main developer hangs here. Dec 26 04:30:09 Why do you need it? Dec 26 04:30:10 ive been wanting facebookcchat forever Dec 26 04:30:18 Yeah, they're already working on that. Dec 26 04:30:32 It won't work if you just try to throw it in there as far as I know. Dec 26 04:30:36 I've already tried. Dec 26 04:30:39 oh :( Dec 26 04:30:47 who do i talk to about it? Dec 26 04:31:48 Just wait it out. Dec 26 04:31:56 It's already being worked on. Dec 26 04:31:57 ehhh Dec 26 04:33:05 Collabora are working on it, as far as I know. Dec 26 04:33:12 Along with other protocols. Dec 26 04:33:25 Coming to extras-devel when ready. Dec 26 04:33:28 zerojay: you can already use it for msn i believe Dec 26 04:33:41 * AakashPatel installs telepathy-haze Dec 26 04:33:44 RobertH[AU]: Use facebookchat for msn? Dec 26 04:34:29 Well, at least i have confirmation taht someone is working on it now :) Dec 26 04:34:30 zerojay: no, telepathy-haze is already implemented i think Dec 26 04:34:35 in development Dec 26 04:34:43 ill check right now :P Dec 26 04:34:49 it doesn't have all the bugs ironed out yet Dec 26 04:34:56 AakashPatel: Don't simply install telepathy-haze. Install the account plugins which are needed, otherwise telepathy-haze alone won't work. Dec 26 04:35:08 yeah Dec 26 04:35:23 they don't work 100% yet though Dec 26 04:35:23 Oh hmm Dec 26 04:35:27 RobertH[AU]: Yes, telepathy-haze has been in extras-devel for months already. I know, I was one of the first to install it on an N900 prototype outside of Nokia. lol Dec 26 04:35:36 zerojay: oh right Dec 26 04:36:14 Lol Dec 26 04:36:17 I tinkered with getting facebookchat and twitter working with OS2008 with varying degrees of success through telepathy-haze and sent my stuff over to the haze developer to get it up and running on the N900. Dec 26 04:37:22 How long ago was this? Dec 26 04:37:45 4 or 5 months. Dec 26 04:37:53 They told me they were working on them. Dec 26 04:38:20 One of my buddies got Twitter fully integrated and operational: http://rabbitrun84.blogspot.com/2009/12/twitter-plugin-for-n900-contacts-and.html Dec 26 04:39:26 Did they release it? Or no? Dec 26 04:39:32 Oh wait, that post was from this month Dec 26 04:40:07 ...yesterday Dec 26 04:40:07 hah Dec 26 04:40:17 It's not done yet, so it's not released. Dec 26 04:40:36 Yeah, i thought for sec taht was an old post Dec 26 04:41:22 Is that the same dude workin on the haze stuff? Dec 26 04:41:44 (asking cuz i see he has MSN(haze)) Dec 26 04:42:34 MSN haze is already released Dec 26 04:43:24 hmm i search for "msn" on maemo.org/packages Dec 26 04:43:26 nuffin there Dec 26 04:43:40 well, not "released" to extras yet, just extras-devel Dec 26 04:44:04 that includes extras-devel? am i mistaken? Dec 26 04:44:57 does it? guess it does... Dec 26 04:45:02 search for telepathy instead Dec 26 04:46:14 i dont see anything about MSN Dec 26 04:47:15 "The way all my conversations like Twitter, FB or Skype are integrated on the N900 leaves me speechless. Best thing ever!!" -submono twitter Dec 26 04:47:20 looks like its workin o.o Dec 26 04:47:39 http://maemo.org/packages/view/telepathy-haze/ <- that's what I'm using for MSN Dec 26 04:50:07 johnx: does it put all your old msn contacts (even ones you have deleted) in your contacts list like the butterfly plugin? that was really annoyinh Dec 26 04:51:11 http://maemo.org/packages/view/libpurple-twitter-protocol/ Dec 26 04:51:35 looks like that was released zerojay Dec 26 04:51:36 maybe? I didn't think it put my deleted ones in, but it definitely doesn't "do the right thing" when the -haze version and -butterfly version are configured with the same MSN account Dec 26 04:57:55 johnx: johnx Dec 26 04:58:04 hallo rm_you Dec 26 05:09:20 * AakashPatel installs the twitter plugin Dec 26 05:28:57 AakashPatel: I wasn't talking about the twitter plugin being released. Dec 26 05:29:04 oh Dec 26 05:29:08 nvm then Dec 26 05:29:26 I know it was released since my friend made the announcement yesterday. :) Dec 26 05:30:12 Oh hehe Dec 26 06:08:57 ok Dec 26 06:09:01 i seriously need to break down Dec 26 06:09:04 and get an n900 :) Dec 26 06:09:12 this G1 has me about to throw it off a tall building Dec 26 06:09:15 or at least android does Dec 26 06:11:41 BUT ALL THE HYPE!! Dec 26 06:11:52 HOW CAN IT BE BAD WITH ALL THAT HYPE? Dec 26 06:12:07 zash: well. it's not bad Dec 26 06:12:13 but it's not good either :) Dec 26 06:14:00 what's bad? Dec 26 06:14:39 well Dec 26 06:14:44 the self killing of apps when mem is low Dec 26 06:14:49 is probably the worst Dec 26 06:14:54 the lack of good quality apps is another Dec 26 06:15:24 every time you update a rom you have to refresh this dalvik cache that takes like 10 minutes to do on a G1 Dec 26 06:15:29 even if you just install a theme Dec 26 06:15:53 but the worst like i said was the way it kills apps by itself when the mem starts to get low Dec 26 06:15:57 that shit is driving me up the wall Dec 26 06:16:04 opening 3 apps will kill app 1 Dec 26 06:16:22 beecause android would rather close your apps than ask you wha tto do :) because people are naturally stupid like that Dec 26 06:16:40 then now i have a service that is running that shouldn't be that is taking up 16MB of ram and i can't figure out how to get rid of it Dec 26 06:16:47 yeah. i think it is just time to suck it up and buy an n900 Dec 26 06:16:53 was waiting for the wimax edition though Dec 26 06:16:54 :) Dec 26 06:17:24 * zash finds the use of linux without normal linux userland somewhat disturbing Dec 26 06:17:28 and .. java Dec 26 06:17:41 it isn't even real java Dec 26 06:17:43 :) Dec 26 06:17:47 precisly Dec 26 06:17:50 it's some special google made java Dec 26 06:17:59 that looks almost exactly the same but works differently i suppose Dec 26 06:18:11 sandboxed java-but-not-real-java Dec 26 06:18:14 wasn't the whole point of java Dec 26 06:18:17 to be cross platform? Dec 26 06:19:14 IE is just horrible too Dec 26 06:19:21 ie8 in win7 is absolute garbage :) Dec 26 06:19:32 ah well. .bbl. Dec 26 06:25:54 Macer: wimax was dead on arrival Dec 26 06:26:15 I live in one of the US cities where it is available Dec 26 06:26:25 there's no reason to pursue it Dec 26 06:26:39 it's barely faster than EDGE Dec 26 06:27:23 the ISP wants a 2 year contract... which if you're lucky the company will still be around in 2 years Dec 26 06:27:38 if not you're out whatever it costs up front Dec 26 06:33:12 erm Dec 26 06:33:12 depends. Dec 26 06:34:12 i was at HOPE 2007 Dec 26 06:34:12 the internet pipe was a point to point wimax link over the hudson river Dec 26 06:36:11 wimax is barely faster than edge? really? Dec 26 06:38:24 46Mbps* / 32Mbps** @ 10MHz Dec 26 06:38:49 gah Dec 26 06:39:09 wimax is useful, just not the way intended Dec 26 06:39:54 id like to get my hands on an n810w for shits and giggles Dec 26 06:40:16 yeah if you have your own wimax equip then it's a really neat tech Dec 26 06:40:24 ... Dec 26 06:40:51 wimax for ISP last mile is not growing Dec 26 06:41:19 i priced it Dec 26 06:41:28 a wimax link from my office to my bosses house Dec 26 06:41:30 only a few US cities, and as I mentioned this city (Jackson WY) doesn't looks so great Dec 26 06:41:33 fiber was cheaper Dec 26 06:41:40 ex-actly. Dec 26 06:41:44 fiber ftw! Dec 26 06:41:57 yea it was pretty sad Dec 26 06:42:23 http://www.welectronics.com/ULTRA-MOBILE-PCs/NOKIA-N810-WIMAX-EDITION-INTERNET-TABLET.HTML Dec 26 06:42:27 that black sure is sexy Dec 26 06:42:36 i'm stuck with EDGE speeds though because T-Mobile doesn't offer 3G network here Dec 26 06:42:40 what about ad-hoc WiMax? Dec 26 06:43:08 they do here but, i dont have my damn device yet Dec 26 06:43:24 they do here, I think, but it's too expensive even if I had a device Dec 26 06:43:26 <.< Dec 26 06:43:32 too expensive? Dec 26 06:43:45 costs the same as the BB service Dec 26 06:43:51 extra $15/mo Dec 26 06:43:57 I pay 45.06 after taxes a month Dec 26 06:43:59 BB? Dec 26 06:44:24 blackberry Dec 26 06:44:25 we have a lot of wimax operators here. but n810 just is not compatible :-( Dec 26 06:44:29 lucent: $45 for 5 GB/mo is too much :p Dec 26 06:44:37 oh the way I did it is pre-pay 500 minute flexpay and then add $10/mo internet Dec 26 06:44:43 unlimited internet Dec 26 06:44:54 I doubt it Dec 26 06:45:01 id buy the device but work got me one... so im stuck waiting Dec 26 06:45:08 was marked up to $850 Dec 26 06:45:10 at the mall Dec 26 06:45:14 T-mobile is a slut when it comes to checking their subscriptions and stuff... so I can get away with this forever Dec 26 06:45:21 lucent: we have pretty decent speeds. maybe not really faster than hsdpa but at least it is not owned by cellular network operators Dec 26 06:45:24 then 10 feet away they had it for $699 Dec 26 06:45:30 ill wait Dec 26 06:45:54 yeah I am surprised the price shot up so high even more than pre-order Dec 26 06:46:14 they were as low as $450 on amazon Dec 26 06:46:22 I got pre-order for $529.99 and then there's that mysterious $50 visa gift card I can send in for Dec 26 06:46:30 nice Dec 26 06:46:41 mza: $450 I think was after the rebate visa card Dec 26 06:46:54 oh Dec 26 06:47:09 that's a bit deceiving since nobody can actually send in for the rebate card Dec 26 06:47:14 Ovi Store doesn't work for N900 Dec 26 06:47:34 need to activate Ovi Store from the N900 to qualify Dec 26 06:47:54 arg, damn at&t Dec 26 06:48:01 i could use some wimax Dec 26 06:49:16 for those of you without a N900 in-hand, it's just this average device I guess and a early adopter's gadget Dec 26 06:50:09 if you have some old candybar phone like I had, it's really a step up Dec 26 06:50:34 im on a blackberry 8900 Dec 26 06:50:41 had a G1 for a minute Dec 26 06:50:51 e71 in between Dec 26 06:50:53 blackberry will do email better and quicker than anything else out there Dec 26 06:50:56 is there a way to stay with builtin audio while using video output? my projectors speakers are silly Dec 26 06:51:25 Arkenoi: I think it must be possible Dec 26 06:51:39 lucent: yea:( i just love my n810 Dec 26 06:52:08 ive had my n810 for 2 years, only "gadget" ive had that long that i use every day Dec 26 06:52:46 mza: I saw an N800 when I had just purchased a sharp zaurus Dec 26 06:52:52 I thought "wow I made a bad choice" Dec 26 06:53:01 zaurus c3000 Dec 26 06:53:27 my buddy had a zaurus, he said it was neat Dec 26 06:53:55 the zaurus OS choices never, and I mean to this very day, never matured to where Maemo is right now Dec 26 06:54:00 im still in search of that "perfect device" Dec 26 06:54:19 the e61i was close Dec 26 06:54:20 very close Dec 26 06:54:34 just no 3g Dec 26 06:54:57 lucent: shipped software always sucks. I'm only interested in the hardware. Dec 26 06:55:05 yea, i tell people how much better maemo is than android, nobody believes Dec 26 06:55:07 host usb is about all I really miss from the N900 Dec 26 06:55:22 lucent: the Zaurus clamshell line is the best I've ever seen for general design, but unfortunately like 4 or 5 generations obsolete :( Dec 26 06:55:32 also I heard that the USB port on the N900 will snap off over time Dec 26 06:55:43 oh that's great news Dec 26 06:55:52 I don't understand if that is a known problem with just the early prototypes or if it applies to production units Dec 26 06:55:55 lucent, how to do it? Dec 26 06:56:15 host usb on N900 is not wired. Dec 26 06:56:27 it just won't happen. Dec 26 06:56:53 oh that's disappointing Dec 26 06:56:58 you guys are full of great news Dec 26 06:57:41 I was in the market for a phone that does web browsing with flash, so the N900 is no regrets Dec 26 06:58:12 is it heresy to love my 2007 htc kaiser? Dec 26 06:58:23 ha Dec 26 06:59:06 glad the N900 does not use D-Pad Dec 26 06:59:13 i have found little compelling reason to change to any newer phone Dec 26 06:59:13 D-Pad is horrid Dec 26 06:59:27 * luke-jr boots up his N810 to remember yet another reason he's pissed at Nokia Dec 26 06:59:54 theres nothing new on an at&t n900, yeah? Dec 26 07:00:09 um, that won't be likely to happen Dec 26 07:00:15 regardless, no google maps would suck. Dec 26 07:00:19 AT&T has an exclusivity agreement with Apple Dec 26 07:00:23 ok, thought so Dec 26 07:00:38 they won't carry another phone to compete with the iPhone until the agreement is up sometime 2010 Dec 26 07:00:56 that makes no sense Dec 26 07:00:59 oh, i thought the restriction was the other way around Dec 26 07:01:04 t-mobile isn't "carrying" the N900 Dec 26 07:01:15 they just built it to work on their network Dec 26 07:01:20 and that was my other objection Dec 26 07:01:21 why cant they do the same for AT&T? Dec 26 07:01:35 T-Mobile uses the same bands as european carriers Dec 26 07:01:43 what's so difficult to understand about that? Dec 26 07:01:48 uhm Dec 26 07:01:50 ok lucent now i know youre wrong Dec 26 07:01:54 what? Dec 26 07:02:00 tmobile uses 1700/2100up Dec 26 07:02:10 its unique to region 2 Dec 26 07:02:13 * lucent pokes reference Dec 26 07:02:19 oh, bleh Dec 26 07:02:53 in fact, other than a minor regional carrier or two, they are the only national carrier in the world to use that band Dec 26 07:03:38 sorry I had bad information, I guess their 2100 is not the same as in Europe Dec 26 07:04:41 thats because tmobile is on 1700, by convention the downstream is the band name Dec 26 07:05:07 the fact that it uses 2100up has nothing to do with the 2100mhz euro service Dec 26 07:06:19 at&t is kind of unique, but canadian carriers use the same band. more importantly -and this is why im so confused by nokias choice - there are a lot more tri/quad hspa tx chips that do more asia/eu bands with the at&t band Dec 26 07:07:45 that plus the user base for att+rogers makes tmobile look regional Dec 26 07:08:27 I was with AT&T for 5+ years even back when it was Cingular Dec 26 07:09:06 heh, me too. my mom still has an at&t sim card from the original at&t wireless Dec 26 07:09:23 $48.86/month seemed like a lot to pay for just basic service and no messaging or internet Dec 26 07:09:45 depends how you do it Dec 26 07:10:15 i bought my own phone, so my $76 with tax and fine print aint bad... Dec 26 07:10:26 when i get away with tethering Dec 26 07:10:48 i dont use calling that much Dec 26 07:12:10 oh this keyboard is kinda awesome Dec 26 07:19:05 hm Dec 26 07:19:11 blah Dec 26 07:21:30 Im getting my N900 monday :) been reading the maemo.org community chat, is 64bit windows 7 supported now for reflashing the device? Dec 26 07:25:21 http://lolwat.net/i/fe/febc7f0af3eec41d511bc5210d2c87b6.png Dec 26 07:25:22 :) Dec 26 07:25:59 * RST38h prefers the right picture by the way Dec 26 07:26:34 worst case, a vm, no? Dec 26 07:26:53 even althouhg both of them are probably taken on Windows. Dec 26 07:34:05 openvpn on n900? Dec 26 07:39:26 i guess using internal audio and external video is either not possible or very tricky.. i could not find any way to tune audio output Dec 26 07:52:32 hmm, quite interesting: while in media player, external video is _not_ exact clone of screen output. may it be possible for audio as well? but there are no settings for that :-( Dec 26 07:54:46 why is it not an exact clone? Dec 26 07:56:28 rst38h: if you activate a menu, it is displayed on builtin screen only and does not appear on the video out Dec 26 07:56:47 video out keeps movie picture only Dec 26 08:05:25 Ah Dec 26 08:05:34 so there is an extra buffer of some kind Dec 26 08:07:33 for sound, does it switch on hardware level when i plug 3.5mm jack in, or is it software driven? Dec 26 08:07:55 I *think* it is a software switch Dec 26 08:08:09 at least there were some tools to enable/disable the switch Dec 26 08:08:51 RST38h, really? where can i find it? Dec 26 08:09:17 I never really tried it, no longer remember where I saw it Dec 26 08:09:31 search for "headphones" on tmo Dec 26 08:19:55 mornin' Dec 26 08:24:42 RST38h, cannot find anything relevant :-( Dec 26 08:25:47 Arkenoi: The best people to ask will be lardman and Stskeeps then Dec 26 08:25:57 Arkenoi: One of them may know the whole story Dec 26 08:26:20 Oh, wait, you may also want to try amixer :) Dec 26 08:26:39 amixer should let you control the audio routing to wherever you want Dec 26 08:26:53 what's the problem? Dec 26 08:26:59 how do 3D displays deal with focus? Dec 26 08:27:52 bounce provides it's own widgets to minimise and close the window I noticed Dec 26 08:28:55 28#_35+/controls Dec 26 08:29:06 widgets/controls Dec 26 08:32:03 RST38h, hmm.. which parameters should i provide? i am not very familliar with sound subsystems. alsa-mixer by default provides only one "master output" control and that's all Dec 26 08:32:28 google for amixer? Dec 26 08:32:39 Arkenoi: what are you trying to do? Dec 26 08:33:52 RST38h: the different tv-out is probably really an "extra buffer", but an Xv overlay, which are also scaled independently by the hardware even on desktop computers Dec 26 08:33:56 bobbyd: trying to route sound to internal speakers while 3.5mm jack is plugged in. my projector speaker is true shit Dec 26 08:34:22 Arkenoi: ahh Dec 26 08:34:23 I meant "probably not really an extra buffer" Dec 26 08:35:07 Arkenoi: I'm not sure how that works, but I think pulseaudio is controlling it Dec 26 08:35:41 as you say, there's only one output when you run alsamixer Dec 26 08:36:01 so I think mixing is happening in pulseaudio Dec 26 08:36:08 not sure though Dec 26 08:37:53 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain#PulseAudio Dec 26 08:41:09 the fm receiver radio application thing has an option to play the radio through speakers when the headphones are plugged in, so it's definitely possible Dec 26 08:45:30 well, i guess it is possible with amixer but i still cannot get how to do it :-( Dec 26 09:54:57 heya all Dec 26 09:56:19 morning wazd Dec 26 09:56:53 how's your xmas so far? Dec 26 09:57:17 Stskeeps: In soviet russia, we have xmas on 7th of Jan :) Dec 26 09:57:25 ah yes Dec 26 09:57:39 well, at least that's better than friggen meatless xmas eve Dec 26 09:57:40 :P Dec 26 09:58:00 * Stskeeps had a bit of a culture shock Dec 26 09:58:04 Stskeeps: and it's more of a christian holiday, we have NY for c-trees and presents :) Dec 26 09:59:26 ah Dec 26 10:04:18 hmm, funny thing: if i use video out to 4:3 projector from the desktop, i get empty space above and below. But if i play 4:3 video from media player, i get it almost fullscreen, not double cropped as one may expect! Dec 26 10:07:23 Arkenoi: transformed? Dec 26 10:08:01 aaah Dec 26 10:08:07 got it, sorry :) Dec 26 10:08:54 wazd: so what is today's blog going to be? Dec 26 10:09:54 good morning all Dec 26 10:10:11 Stskeeps: make an educated guess :P Dec 26 10:10:29 http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Court_slams_Bosnia_for_barring_Jews_12222009.html Dec 26 10:10:31 Hehe Dec 26 10:10:32 wazd: you're going to make a design suggestion for maemoporn.org? Dec 26 10:10:56 Stskeeps: Don't give him any wrong ideas. Dec 26 10:11:49 RST38h: actually yes :D Dec 26 10:12:22 wazd: also some people don't understand you are making UI suggestions for some reason.. there's some mean comments related to that :) Dec 26 10:12:40 where? Dec 26 10:12:46 Stskeeps: where?! I'll kill them! :D Dec 26 10:13:51 KILL KILL 'EM ALL Dec 26 10:14:17 wazd: xchat one :P Dec 26 10:14:32 * RST38h knew he was getting Nigerian Christmas greetings for a reason yesterday. Dec 26 10:14:56 Umgh. Dec 26 10:15:08 RST38h: instructions to go blow up a plane? Dec 26 10:15:48 Stskeeps: No, just an email saying "Christmas greetings to all Nigerians bla bla bla" Dec 26 10:16:18 Stskeeps: Looked like spam, deleted it. But NOW is see that it was Secret Instructions from Osama himself! Dec 26 10:16:20 Stskeeps: well, people have different points of view, I'm ready to discuss anything :) Dec 26 10:16:24 wazd: hehe, yeah Dec 26 10:17:11 RST38h: have you seen my xchat concept btw? Dec 26 10:17:25 wazd: Yea. Nice. But who is gonna do it? Dec 26 10:17:34 * RST38h cant even build xchat here Dec 26 10:17:40 RST38h: that's the question :) Dec 26 10:18:05 Stskeeps: Maybe if I read that email to the end, I would be all "KILL THE INFIDELS! KILL! KILL!" right now =) Dec 26 10:18:38 OMG, Apple stock is $204 today.... Dec 26 10:18:52 RST38h: someone mentioned jobs liked the tablet concept Dec 26 10:19:28 Stskeeps: And that was enough to send the stock up? Dec 26 10:19:34 This world has gone insane. Dec 26 10:19:35 RST38h: seemingily Dec 26 10:19:45 i wonder when the apple stock bubble will explode Dec 26 10:19:52 when I buy some Dec 26 10:19:53 RST38h: now we need to make the Jobs say that he likes VAZ cars :D Dec 26 10:20:56 wazd: No, please. Dec 26 10:21:22 Just nuke the place. Cover ruins with the large concrete slab. Dec 26 10:31:22 has anybody else had problems with xchat crashing all the time? Dec 26 10:31:45 interesting comment at the close of bug 5357 Dec 26 10:31:47 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5357 Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *# Dec 26 10:32:16 "but it's up to you guys if you prefer to keep this open until the fix hits a public release." Dec 26 10:32:54 currently using irssi, but it's not really optimal because I can't really take advantage of the touch screen Dec 26 10:34:12 which would be useful for changing channels for example Dec 26 10:34:34 irssi is great if you actually have a real keyboard though Dec 26 10:35:28 mpro120 battery life is not bad at all. when official specs state "2-4h" i expect to be lucky if i get 2 at least. Actually more like 3.5. Dec 26 10:45:05 does n900 support CSD calls? Dec 26 10:47:15 i'd doubt it Dec 26 10:48:58 CSD? Dec 26 10:50:48 circuit switched data. what is named "data call" (not internet) Dec 26 10:57:52 ShadowJK, it is pretty standard for most gsm phones.. Dec 26 10:58:09 n900 isn't a phone ;-) Dec 26 10:58:50 CSD isn't listed in the specs either, so that confirms it probably Dec 26 11:01:23 It doesn't support multiple APNs on packet data, doesn't do 3G video calls, 3G video sharing, 3G picture sharing, PTT, and alot of other things Dec 26 11:01:52 It's basically like a mobile computer, with a 3G modem, and then the minimum amount of features implemented to be able to make a gsm or 3g voice call too Dec 26 11:02:00 oh and sms, but that's pretty much it Dec 26 11:04:58 and no fax support! Dec 26 11:06:01 is there a way to add alt to the soft key bar in xterm? Dec 26 11:06:05 ShadowJK, all you listed here are software limitation which can be bypassed by future firmware releases Dec 26 11:06:17 Yeah but the question is whether anyone will bother Dec 26 11:06:27 I think they're hoping for those legacy techs to die out Dec 26 11:06:32 and does anybody know if 'less' is available from some repo? Dec 26 11:06:44 fdv, alt for use with irssi? Press esc then a number Dec 26 11:06:59 Yeah I think it's in the SDK tools repo maybe Dec 26 11:07:16 ShadowJK: well, in general. I use it all the time. :) Dec 26 11:07:49 in general esc followed by key is equivalent to alt key Dec 26 11:08:02 ShadowJK: thanks for the tip, works perfectly :) Dec 26 11:08:17 good point, forgot about that. Dec 26 11:08:39 still, emacs wo alt is somewhat sad Dec 26 11:09:51 yeah, that's another issue. the symbol table won't pop up under qemacs, is this due to it being tied to hildon or something? Dec 26 11:12:32 and in vim, cr inserts a line above the one you're at and enters an 'M'. might be archaic vi behavior, for all I know. :-) Dec 26 11:17:10 hi Dec 26 11:18:54 ok it's now confirmed that my phone works using the off mode trick, problem is that now the battery life is only 10 hours in standby Dec 26 11:19:31 re enabling the off mode and disabling the voltage thing should do the same preserving battery life right? Dec 26 11:19:39 what is the off mode? Dec 26 11:20:15 if you aren't affected by random reboots Dec 26 11:20:22 nothing you should care about Dec 26 11:20:31 because your phone is better than mine XD Dec 26 11:20:33 ok Dec 26 11:20:52 so Dec 26 11:20:56 ~ $ maemo-optify-deb MyDocs/.documents/mplayer_1.0svn2_armel.deb Dec 26 11:20:56 Can't locate File/Find.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.3 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/bin/maemo-optify-deb line 5. Dec 26 11:21:00 BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/bin/maemo-optify-deb line 5. Dec 26 11:21:12 anyone w/ same problem? Dec 26 11:21:55 the MPlayer in extras-devel is already optified? Dec 26 11:22:06 i am not sure Dec 26 11:22:14 i'm sure Dec 26 11:22:16 i'll check Dec 26 11:22:32 so it is optified? Dec 26 11:23:14 yes Dec 26 11:23:36 I have 1.0svn20091221-1 from extras-devel installed, and it's optified Dec 26 11:24:25 * Arkenoi wonders if there are that many faulty n900's? many people complain about reboots and/or battery being drained in 8-10h Dec 26 11:26:43 Arkenoi: I also have the impression that there are quite a few duds out there. I don't know if there are more faulty devices compared to any other device shortly after the first launch / first batches though. Dec 26 11:29:52 Shapeshifter, typical symptoms are quite common - and the rest of us never experience problems like that Dec 26 11:32:02 http://img2.pict.com/d0/03/3a/2281990/0/17456114652207712416497151753571.jpg :D Dec 26 11:37:28 wee, previous montly visits record is successfuly broken :) Dec 26 11:38:07 hm.. I could have the random reboot problem but I wouldn't know Dec 26 11:38:16 xchat is effectively keeping CPU from never going into off mode Dec 26 11:40:49 wazd: eek. Dec 26 11:41:45 wazd: There is some Italian comics artist working along similar lines, except that he appears to be deadly serious =) Dec 26 11:41:56 :D Dec 26 11:43:44 so, how many people have pr1.1? Dec 26 11:43:48 browser Dec 26 11:43:59 shift + ctrl + o Dec 26 11:44:01 konttori: Should ask Andre Dec 26 11:44:19 close kb, turn to portrait Dec 26 11:44:58 konttori: that detail seems not leaked to bloggers :P Dec 26 11:45:13 oh, ups ;) Dec 26 11:45:32 what that does? Dec 26 11:45:36 (i think people know of it but bloggers that hear rumours think "NO PORTRAIT MODE!!!" or something) Dec 26 11:45:44 Oh, so you finally enabled portrait mode? Dec 26 11:46:27 konttori: Can you please make shift-ctrol-o and shift-ctrl-i stick between browser invokations? Dec 26 11:47:22 there is a key in brpwser cpnfig files to make it permanent Dec 26 11:49:03 huh, browser works in portrait? Dec 26 11:49:25 * LuciusMare doesnt know what the hell are you talking about Dec 26 11:49:34 it wasn't good enough that we would have added it as proper option. But it's good enough for people to try it out a bit. Dec 26 11:49:40 konttori: http://thenokiablog.com/2009/12/25/nokia-n900-firmware-update-pr11/ Dec 26 11:49:45 so, that's the reason it's not there by default Dec 26 11:49:46 how do I enable it then? :) Dec 26 11:50:17 ah shift ctrl, not fn + control Dec 26 11:50:43 or not Dec 26 11:51:23 konttori: Coooooooool Dec 26 11:51:48 konttori: So, when do we actually see the PR 1.1? Dec 26 11:52:15 meh Dec 26 11:52:31 shift+ctrl+o does not do anything here Dec 26 11:53:17 neither for me, but shift+ctrl+i briefly flashes the screen Dec 26 11:53:29 lemme try that Dec 26 11:53:37 but then again, I don't have the browser version konttori was referring to I guess Dec 26 11:53:49 LuciusMare, only with the new firmware that's only released to testers Dec 26 11:53:54 yup,it flashes Dec 26 11:53:55 aw Dec 26 11:54:12 I think shift-ctrl+i was the reflow thing, try zoom in and out after presing that Dec 26 11:54:26 is available in 42-11 too Dec 26 11:54:28 oh well, have gotten use to landscape pretty nicely, but would still like 1 handed portrait mode use when im smoking (always seem to pull out my phone during that :p) Dec 26 11:54:54 red: smoking is butt for your health Dec 26 11:55:01 so is being a nerd Dec 26 11:55:08 harhar Dec 26 11:55:18 heh,eh... :( Dec 26 11:55:42 but for when driving / need other hand for smokng etc, would be nice to have the portrait Dec 26 11:55:49 but you're a nerd AND you smoke Dec 26 11:55:51 it's coming so no worries :) Dec 26 11:55:56 so its twice as bad Dec 26 11:55:59 i was waiting for you to point that out :D Dec 26 11:56:00 hm... what was the trick to get portrait mode.. Dec 26 11:56:56 ctrl+shift+i -> close keyb and turn phone as far as I understood it Dec 26 11:57:03 o* Dec 26 11:57:03 no Dec 26 11:57:07 no the old one Dec 26 11:57:08 oh, you mean o Dec 26 11:57:08 i? no o? Dec 26 11:57:10 wait Dec 26 11:57:12 i is reflow Dec 26 11:57:16 meh Dec 26 11:57:18 I mean the old "bug" Dec 26 11:57:25 o is portrait (but apparently only in a new version which none of us have) Dec 26 11:57:36 ah that, was a pain to try it Dec 26 11:57:40 meh Dec 26 11:57:41 and buttons wrong way around Dec 26 11:57:49 yes,its kinda finger-breaking Dec 26 11:58:24 hm Dec 26 11:58:32 but when i repartition Dec 26 11:58:42 will i void the warranty Dec 26 11:58:48 * konttori reads most content in portrati mode now with the large font size Dec 26 11:59:04 and can i still get the newer firmwares? Dec 26 12:01:00 I am a bit baffled why the filesystem for installing apps on the N900 is so limited, it's really trivial to fill it up Dec 26 12:01:16 lol Dec 26 12:01:34 thats the reason why i want to repartition :) Dec 26 12:01:56 you mean the 2G/ Dec 26 12:02:19 dnaumov: external packages should install to /opt Dec 26 12:03:22 * konttori thinks the optify script is not doing particulary good job Dec 26 12:03:54 konttori: heya Dec 26 12:04:04 red: yeah, you need to be one of the people who have received pr1.1. Dec 26 12:04:14 * konttori has no idea who have access to it Dec 26 12:04:16 konttori: I'm on my desktop machine now, I can tell you what TM says to me :) Dec 26 12:04:32 ok, cool. what OS is your desktop? Dec 26 12:04:41 konttori: Vista SP2 Dec 26 12:05:12 huh Dec 26 12:05:19 konttori: should I run ThemeMakerWindows.bat? Dec 26 12:05:29 yeah. Dec 26 12:05:56 I made that bat completely blindly, so I haven't tested windows at all ever. Dec 26 12:06:14 and I know you won't be able to get a working debian out of it atm. Dec 26 12:06:35 lol Dec 26 12:07:00 konttori: oh, now I get it :D Dec 26 12:07:11 konttori: it says there's no java Dec 26 12:07:29 lol Dec 26 12:07:41 konttori: but there is, I'm sure ;) Dec 26 12:07:49 woah Dec 26 12:07:55 open cmd and type java Dec 26 12:08:06 is 77% filled rootfs a lot? Dec 26 12:08:24 konttori: well, it says "it's not a command" Dec 26 12:08:40 well, java is not at least properly setup then Dec 26 12:09:06 http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/widget/jdk6.jsp Dec 26 12:09:17 konttori: well, I can run TM without .bat Dec 26 12:09:24 konttori: it works Dec 26 12:09:54 omg Dec 26 12:10:13 vim, of size 20 MB is not optified. at all. Dec 26 12:10:31 O_o Dec 26 12:11:44 konttori: btw are you aware of performance degradation once the device stays up for 4+ days? Dec 26 12:13:53 u should add a java compiler to PATH Dec 26 12:14:49 there is a command to uninstall debian packages in the n900? Dec 26 12:15:10 i mean i installed the packet viewer and i noticed something i want uninstall Dec 26 12:15:23 there is a way to do so from xterminal? Dec 26 12:17:15 Vengeful[zZzZz]: apt-get Dec 26 12:17:16 apt-get remove packagename Dec 26 12:17:27 hmmm Dec 26 12:17:42 let's try with marbles XD Dec 26 12:18:12 isn't working anymore Dec 26 12:18:21 and i hate that icon still being there Dec 26 12:20:38 ... Dec 26 12:20:46 anybody got irreco to work? Dec 26 12:21:03 for me,it doesnt work Dec 26 12:22:00 RST38bis: perf deg on 42 or 51? Dec 26 12:22:42 wazd: the bat sets up java vm size to big enough. Dec 26 12:22:55 Vengeful[zZzZz]: apt-get remove osso-lmarbles Dec 26 12:23:00 you need it to be able to build theme Dec 26 12:23:49 yeah thanks Dec 26 12:24:02 this way i can really manage what's in and what's out the device Dec 26 12:24:04 thanks Dec 26 12:25:32 konttori: 42 Dec 26 12:26:45 hmmm... irssi package is broken, misses -e in .desktop Dec 26 12:29:21 morning :D Dec 26 12:29:41 Can I somehow delete/regenerate the maemo5 media player's music database? There are several songs doubled and many missing... Dec 26 12:36:44 okay, adding the correct words to my google search term brought the solution... Dec 26 12:48:00 Tanuva: empty it and re-transfer after the phone has generated empty list Dec 26 12:48:33 some pro might know what the file is where it has the listings generated, but I dunno :> Dec 26 12:48:54 did u n900 activate all forwarding? Dec 26 12:49:02 phone app Dec 26 12:49:16 hi Dec 26 12:49:39 what to do if my TV is not in the lirc database? (when using irreco) Dec 26 12:49:45 RST38h: ofcourse 42 :) It's an answer for al questions :) Dec 26 12:50:11 hmm Dec 26 12:50:44 red: retransfer ~26gb of music? _last_ choice! :) there's "tracker-processes --hard-reset" but that doesn't really do the job for me yet Dec 26 12:51:31 you can change tracker speed Dec 26 12:51:53 as I use the browser miore, I see little reason that the maximise icon should not be on the top left. Dec 26 12:52:31 there is a way to see the battery lifetime in minutes or % ? Dec 26 12:52:37 yes Dec 26 12:52:39 even from xterminal Dec 26 12:52:55 lshal|grep battery Dec 26 12:53:02 thanks Dec 26 12:53:03 Tanuva: I have a similar problem myself but haven't arsed to dig into it just yet :) Dec 26 12:53:09 or lshal -u /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/bme Dec 26 12:53:15 i need to compare times with and without off mode Dec 26 12:53:37 and with and without voltage settings thing too Dec 26 12:53:42 does phone radio eat much? Dec 26 12:53:53 wazd: the answer to all question is currently "harmattan" = Dec 26 12:53:56 man: not idle Dec 26 12:54:04 k Dec 26 12:54:43 oh - xchat - is there a way to complete nicks? Dec 26 12:55:07 what game honors / implements ctrl-del and pause when lose focus? Dec 26 12:55:16 hah Dec 26 12:55:35 maybe remap ctrl i Dec 26 12:57:01 automatic nick completion is in settings but it crashed Dec 26 12:57:50 wazd: +3 subway stations today Dec 26 13:00:50 man: oooh ctrl-i is pop channel out to own window (or back) Dec 26 13:01:07 what to do if my TV is not in the lirc database? (when using irreco) Dec 26 13:01:40 luc: add it with appropriate hardware or look ar irreco web pages Dec 26 13:01:51 or svn/git Dec 26 13:02:13 wait,what appropriate hardware? Dec 26 13:02:16 RST38h: yeah, same boring design Dec 26 13:02:32 wazd: have not seen the designs yet Dec 26 13:03:06 RST38h http://lenta.ru/photo/2009/12/26/mitino/20_Jpg.htm Dec 26 13:03:29 hm Dec 26 13:03:32 wazd: well, looks ok I guess Dec 26 13:03:34 Quake 3 grade architecture :D Dec 26 13:03:36 i wonder if i can build gnu type apps for android Dec 26 13:03:40 luci: you can capture with some hw - not n900 Dec 26 13:04:08 wazd: Will obviously win from a few ironcast statues of Quake baddies Dec 26 13:04:26 whoa Dec 26 13:04:39 i dont need any extra hardware when using the universal remote Dec 26 13:04:45 RST38h: compare to Paveletskaya for example http://www.montreal.mid.ru/0img/metro_photo/134.jpg Dec 26 13:05:46 boooring :) Dec 26 13:06:01 wazd: Yes, but those were built under absolutely schizo governance Dec 26 13:06:25 pretty subway Dec 26 13:07:24 wazd: So, unless current mayor finally goes nuts and starts building those stations in the shape of beehives (preferably functional ones), I do not see how it can become better Dec 26 13:07:31 i love moscow metro Dec 26 13:07:45 RST38h: heh) Dec 26 13:07:58 except for the people inside Dec 26 13:08:13 I love the subway somewhere, where it looks like caves Dec 26 13:08:24 now that's awesome Dec 26 13:09:44 wazd: that will be Disney World? =) Dec 26 13:11:15 RST38h: it should not have such. only if sgx goes to restart lopp Dec 26 13:11:29 but that can happen any time Dec 26 13:11:54 hm,i cant find any information about it Dec 26 13:12:06 so, if it's not that, then i don't know Dec 26 13:16:00 konttori: Weird... Dec 26 13:17:04 is there a mini httpd for maemo5 ? Dec 26 13:17:38 konttori: it looks more like the overall perf drop, like some resource is becoming scarce Dec 26 13:18:05 compile thhtpd Dec 26 13:18:13 konttori: takes longer for applications to start, taking photos becomes difficult, as thumbnailer takes up to 40-50 seconds to process each photo, rendering device unresponsive Dec 26 13:18:26 konttori: media player UI becomes less responsive as well Dec 26 13:18:32 ManuelSE: OK, I'll look at it Dec 26 13:18:38 thttpd Dec 26 13:18:43 konttori: the only way to fix it that I know is to reboot, then it all comes back to normal for the next 4 days or so Dec 26 13:19:02 konttori: Oh, also, video playback starts stuttering when the problem occurs Dec 26 13:20:13 i bet a 770 could serve lots of users on a small site with thttpd Dec 26 13:21:32 why not lighttpd ? any reason? Dec 26 13:21:43 dunno Dec 26 13:22:06 *nod* fair enough ;) Dec 26 13:22:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_lightweight_web_servers is guiding me to lighttpd + I use that on OBS... Dec 26 13:23:43 and I mis-spelt it when I apt-get'ed before... Dec 26 13:23:52 in + running .... cool Dec 26 13:29:12 o/ howdy Dec 26 13:30:09 I'm trying to use the fn+sym combination and I can highlight a symbol but I don't know how to paste it into leafpad Dec 26 13:30:54 does the N810 ovimaps thingie store the maps locally? Dec 26 13:31:17 N810 has ovi maps? Dec 26 13:31:32 doesn't it? :? but it does have a maps thing? Dec 26 13:31:47 the Maps that comes preinstalled is Navicore Maps, it has locally stored maps Dec 26 13:33:20 hmm, I guess I should switch to OSM only anyway Dec 26 13:34:53 is gpodder video working for anyone here? i never get playback Dec 26 13:35:06 navicore maps are more useful than ovi maps for anavigation, but ovi has actual somewhat uptodate maps Dec 26 13:35:12 maybe a media player issue Dec 26 13:36:05 ShadowJK: MAEP. Dec 26 13:36:14 Got some bugs but rules overally Dec 26 13:38:01 ShadowJK: I live in an area that is probably not in navicore, do you know if I can look at the same navicore maps the N810 has somewhere? Dec 26 13:42:48 rst can emulators get keypressed without language translation? Dec 26 13:43:12 RST38h: have you checked if some app is running wild in bg? Like browserd? Dec 26 13:43:41 if e.g. the home screen panning is stuttering, then that's a symptom of the sgx restart loop. Dec 26 13:43:41 i have also seen thumbnailerd spike but not sure how long Dec 26 13:43:54 aha Dec 26 13:43:58 but what you are describing sounds indeed more like some bg process running amok Dec 26 13:44:33 some proccess indeed but which and why:) Dec 26 13:44:55 zoutube needs sort by date! Dec 26 13:51:11 konttori: Nothing is running wild, checke dwith htop Dec 26 13:55:47 the cpu meters applet is v v handhy Dec 26 14:00:27 kottori: also, it is repeatable (i.e. 4 days without reboot and it stars acting like that) Dec 26 14:02:17 hmm, i had uptime of 9 days before i rebooted, i recognize that symptoms :P Dec 26 14:02:30 -s Dec 26 14:03:05 cpu meter applet is essential Dec 26 14:03:25 think of it as battery use meter Dec 26 14:07:42 RST38h: sounds really odd. Although a bit like what we had roughly at W37. At that time, hildon-desktop was leaking x resources. This led slowly (in about a week) into performance degredation. But it was fixed. Dec 26 14:07:55 you could see the leakage with xrestop Dec 26 14:13:38 konttori: Ok, how do I diagnose that? Where do I get xrestop? =) Dec 26 14:13:59 (and do I understand it correctly that killing hildon-desktop should kinda fix it for another few days?) Dec 26 14:14:50 And yes, killing desktop would fix it if it was that. Dec 26 14:15:09 but I don't know where you could get xrestop. Dec 26 14:15:32 you would be able to use it to profile the issue though. Dec 26 14:15:50 all righty, let us see if it is in the sdk repo Dec 26 14:15:51 I could try to get the profiling tools to be available bit more easily. Dec 26 14:16:35 xrestop is in the repo, no problem Dec 26 14:16:37 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/x/xrestop/ Dec 26 14:16:42 yep Dec 26 14:16:45 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/xrestop/ Dec 26 14:18:12 please Dec 26 14:18:26 angasule, what area? Dec 26 14:18:28 what to do if my tv is not in the lirc database? Dec 26 14:19:06 ShadowJK: Buenos Aires (and surrounding area) and Bahia Blanca (700km south of Buenos Aires) Dec 26 14:19:17 LuciusMare: read the lirc documentation for how to get it in the database. Dec 26 14:20:06 angasule, yeah it's not covered :( Dec 26 14:20:29 ShadowJK: I figured :-) I'm hoping there is an OSM program that stores maps locally Dec 26 14:20:56 angasule: tangogps? Dec 26 14:23:20 konttori: Current memory use as reported by xrestop: 2.55MB Dec 26 14:23:37 konttori: will now have to wait for a few days before checking it again :) Dec 26 14:24:06 SpeedEvil, ShadowJK: thank you both :D Dec 26 14:26:17 would anybody toss me an example or RTFM-URL for maemo_recorder cmdline options. I want to change sample format/rate and I hope to do this via "GStreamer Initialization" parameters Dec 26 14:28:01 angasule: or osm2go - but that's not quite the same Dec 26 14:32:12 VDVsx MOO Dec 26 14:32:30 morning RST38h :) Dec 26 14:32:49 moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Dec 26 14:33:52 has anyone used dosbox? imgmount on my n900 isnt working with isos :-( Dec 26 14:34:15 trying to get red alert working as a demo :P Dec 26 14:35:31 LuciusMare: also you may try other reco of same manuf - or even random. Most "predef programmable" recos have not more than 40..100 different settings. That's due to the fact there is a limited number of reco chips Dec 26 14:35:45 so once again, as many new people are here: is anyone familliar with amixer enough to tell me how to re-route audio back to builtin speakers when 3.5mm jack is plugged in? Dec 26 14:38:09 Arkenoi: seems fm radio knows how to do that (though for a very special case) Dec 26 14:40:55 Arkenoi: but I'm also highly interested in a generic howto for N900 mixer/PCM Dec 26 14:43:38 Arkenoi: AIUI maybe amixer isn't the right tool at all. Just a few hours ago I mused over gst-inspect output Dec 26 14:46:58 DocScrutinizer51, my projector speakers are really crappy, much worse than n900 ones. And there is just no simple way not to route audio into the cable :-( Dec 26 14:47:34 hello, the n900 truly rox, it's all i have expected and sometimes more, i still have one problem : when i lock it, when i want to unlock it i'm asked a pasword and i truly don't remember having chosen one, Is there a default one ? Dec 26 14:47:47 1234? Dec 26 14:48:02 5 Dec 26 14:48:08 6 Dec 26 14:48:23 7 Dec 26 14:48:28 12345 Dec 26 14:48:37 is default Dec 26 14:49:07 haha ... Arkenoi i just played and accidentally activated speakers while headphones a plugged in Dec 26 14:49:09 Arkenoi: I believe it's a hardware switch -- when the jack is plugged in sound is rerouted by the chip itself Dec 26 14:49:17 no Dec 26 14:49:26 there are apps (like fmradio) that do it in software Dec 26 14:49:30 and amixer works too Dec 26 14:49:32 hmm, interesting Dec 26 14:49:55 greetings __gcobb__ Dec 26 14:49:56 crashanddie: that's evidentally not correct Dec 26 14:50:09 crashanddie: nop switching is done in software Dec 26 14:50:35 the n810 was wired that way anyway, my bad Dec 26 14:50:48 RST38h: amixer works? Dec 26 14:50:53 the audio ship can probe the device plugged in (headphone, headset, tv cable,...) Dec 26 14:51:08 audio ship? Does it float? Dec 26 14:52:28 chip :P Dec 26 14:52:37 thanks, but i don't understand, i will check the manual if it's indicated somewhere Dec 26 14:52:55 recheck* Dec 26 14:53:13 davyg: don't use "lock screen" in the power menu Dec 26 14:53:17 or whatever it's called Dec 26 14:53:24 just use the hardware switch on the right of the device Dec 26 14:53:24 why ? Dec 26 14:53:57 Never seen the point of going through a button press, then menu, when it can be achieved in a single action Dec 26 14:54:46 I'm getting depressed because of all the troll threads on tmo Dec 26 14:54:54 yes but if you want to lock it ? Dec 26 14:55:03 with a password i mean Dec 26 14:55:20 then configure the password beforehand :) Dec 26 14:55:26 Should be 12345 Dec 26 14:55:55 btw its a misfeature that the 'password' is not needed at boot Dec 26 14:56:07 davyg: page 11 of the manual Dec 26 14:56:20 if someone steals the device he can just remove battery and put it back in to reboot it into an useable state Dec 26 14:56:36 cehteh: SIM lock requires PIN though Dec 26 14:56:52 well you can use another sim Dec 26 14:57:00 sims are cheap .. the device is expensive Dec 26 14:57:22 and you think the guy is going to return it if it's locked? Dec 26 14:57:26 hum i'm french so don't have the same manual Dec 26 14:57:37 davyg: pas de soucis, c'est page 11 partout je crois Dec 26 14:57:46 ah ^^ Dec 26 14:58:07 no but he cant (as easily) spy data and needs some efforts to access it .. yes i know without encryption its not really strong Dec 26 14:58:08 it's not in case of stollen, it's just to prevent my little sister to read my so important sms Dec 26 14:58:43 but not using the pass at all on boot makes it even more ineffective Dec 26 14:58:57 * cehteh plans to build a kernel with encryption support anyways ... Dec 26 14:59:21 cehteh: goodluckwiththat Dec 26 14:59:42 crashanddie, p11 there is the phone appareance description Dec 26 14:59:42 well maybe fuse based encryption ... thats simpler Dec 26 14:59:57 but will suck more battery :/ Dec 26 15:00:48 if you want to suck battery you can periodically send gps trace to the server Dec 26 15:01:10 and make photos with the front cam Dec 26 15:01:11 will permit to find your robber Dec 26 15:01:25 btw the hardware lock password seems to work as well by kicking in on SIM swap Dec 26 15:01:51 o hi Dec 26 15:02:06 i just checked .. somehoe it was disabled here ,, now i enabled it an reboot Dec 26 15:02:12 maybe it was my fault Dec 26 15:02:20 ah yes Dec 26 15:03:59 RST38h: amixer is really barebones ;-P TWO controls Dec 26 15:04:33 because the device uses pulseaudio and not alsa to do routing i tihnk Dec 26 15:05:07 that's what I was thinking as well Dec 26 15:05:07 pulse is it. Dec 26 15:05:28 thanks for the help, i'm going to buy some stuff for my n900, still don't understand where it says that password is 12345, see you soon(i've a lot of things to ask^^) Dec 26 15:06:02 davyg: MyDocs/manuals Dec 26 15:07:12 it was in the boolket, too Dec 26 15:07:18 in the finnish retail box at least Dec 26 15:08:24 davyg: or N900xx-xx -> Documentos -> User Guides in Filemanager Dec 26 15:09:26 =tually in booklet on p.11 ' yes ;-D Dec 26 15:10:00 "first power-on" 2.) Dec 26 15:11:23 s/=/ac Dec 26 15:11:59 amixer -c0 shows damn a lot of stuff Dec 26 15:13:01 ooh Dec 26 15:13:49 RST38h, ping Dec 26 15:13:51 amixer -c0 controls does as well Dec 26 15:15:17 Arkenoi: mille gracie. Never thought about checking for different cards :oD Dec 26 15:15:44 alsamixer too Dec 26 15:18:07 back Dec 26 15:18:54 oy Dec 26 15:18:57 my n900 froze Dec 26 15:19:03 i installed kplayer and it just... Dec 26 15:19:05 VDVsx: Yes? Dec 26 15:19:09 meh Dec 26 15:19:35 RST38h, what's happened with colem, got stuck ? :D Dec 26 15:19:39 Who called the vivisectionist? Dec 26 15:19:47 VDVsx: Yep. Same shit all over again. Dec 26 15:20:00 VDVsx: No XFade around, too Dec 26 15:20:01 RST38h, none-free issue perhaps ? Dec 26 15:20:11 okay,it unfroze Dec 26 15:20:11 hm Dec 26 15:20:16 VDVsx: Broken promotion scripts issue Dec 26 15:20:20 mplayer cant do flac? Dec 26 15:20:26 VDVsx: free/non-free should not make any difference Dec 26 15:20:32 RST38h, maemo god want you to leave) Dec 26 15:21:12 RST38h, no new firmware, apps rejection ;) Dec 26 15:23:32 apps rejection? Dec 26 15:23:46 wazd: Not rejection, just permanently broken promotion mechanism Dec 26 15:24:21 But yes, iNES/VGB/VGBA have not been allowed back on maemo.org yet Dec 26 15:24:27 RST38h, well, anyway) Dec 26 15:24:29 Probably will not be any time soon Dec 26 15:25:03 LuciusMare: install ogg support Dec 26 15:27:06 ok Dec 26 15:28:34 RST38h, I'll try to push that after holidays :) Dec 26 15:29:02 VDVsx, what you got for christmas?) Dec 26 15:29:03 lucent: dunno if that's sufficient for mplayer. Works for me for flac over maemo mediaplayer Dec 26 15:29:14 wazd_n800, chocolates :D Dec 26 15:29:20 mplayer has everything built-in Dec 26 15:29:25 i guess i should set "Jack function" (numeric id 65) to Off, what is the correct syntax? Dec 26 15:29:27 s/lucent/ LuciusMare / Dec 26 15:29:27 DocScrutinizer51 meant: LuciusMare : dunno if that's sufficient for mplayer. Works for me for flac over maemo mediaplayer Dec 26 15:29:30 wazd_n800, didn't asked for anything :) Dec 26 15:29:35 VDVsx, LG? meh xD Dec 26 15:29:37 VDVsx: What you really need to push is community helpers to X-Fade Dec 26 15:29:48 VDVsx: Talk to jeremiah, too, as he is well aware of the problem Dec 26 15:29:53 wazd_n800, no, lol Dec 26 15:30:27 RST38h, I'll already offered that help, let's see what the new year brings Dec 26 15:30:43 VDVsx: Basically there is exactly 1 (one) guy responsible for the whole infrastructure. That is X-Fade. If he gets eaten by an alligator or run over by a car, we are all doomed Dec 26 15:31:01 RST38h, yes, bus factor Dec 26 15:31:09 RST38h, oh my) Dec 26 15:31:18 VDVsx: Now, if HE gets to choose who else is going to take care of the infradtructure, that is fine with me personally Dec 26 15:31:43 VDVsx: But there obviously has to be another guy doing it. Or two. Dec 26 15:32:23 the problem is that X-Fade is an employed master Dec 26 15:32:37 or am I wrong Dec 26 15:33:09 not a problem to me Dec 26 15:33:27 RST38h, there's some Nokians that also know the infra very well, apart from the package interface Dec 26 15:33:43 So, he is employed. And, let us say, VDVsx will be volunteering. As long as there is no secret stuff there (and there is none afaik), it is ok Dec 26 15:33:45 wazd_n800, employed master ? :D Dec 26 15:34:03 VDVsx, yeah :) Dec 26 15:34:41 better hire VDVsx for cash) Dec 26 15:34:55 that would be fair) Dec 26 15:36:17 anybody happens to know which mixer/audio chip is used in N900? Dec 26 15:36:29 wazd_n800, nah, lol, I can't work for maemo.org, have a embargo :D Dec 26 15:36:40 TI OMAP :) Dec 26 15:37:21 wazd_n800: *only* the omap support power+audio chip? Dec 26 15:37:52 DocScrutinizer, that's what I know Dec 26 15:38:24 hmm ok. Thanks Dec 26 15:40:02 meh. Dec 26 15:40:03 NO!!!!! Dec 26 15:40:04 I've missed 666 karma state!!!(((( Dec 26 15:40:04 aaaaagggrrhhhh Dec 26 15:40:10 lol Dec 26 15:40:25 maemo does not have any integrated equalizer? Dec 26 15:40:34 no Dec 26 15:40:42 nothing in garage? Dec 26 15:41:58 wtf Dec 26 15:42:06 lag travels through usb? Dec 26 15:42:09 you dont get karma for voting for bugs do you? Dec 26 15:42:39 frals, vote for the wrong bugs and you get an official black helicopter visit :D Dec 26 15:42:51 i am charging my n900 through my computer,i removed firefox and the computer froze for a second - as the music playing on my n900 O_o Dec 26 15:42:54 hehe :) Dec 26 15:43:25 ah TMO trolls, sigh :) Dec 26 15:43:26 does n900 have any codename? Dec 26 15:43:32 rover Dec 26 15:43:38 hm Dec 26 15:43:39 thanks Dec 26 15:47:18 well, got some success with alsa-mixer. now trying to figure out how to specify same values to amixer.. Dec 26 15:51:35 RST38h: what you are nterested in the amount of reserved maps. I think 400 is pretty nominal. Memory is not so imporatant (well, somewhat), as the amount of items. Once that raises to 10 000, it starts to be pretty bad. Dec 26 15:52:22 konttori: Checking (runtime of ~4 hours I think)... Dec 26 15:53:00 konttori: 2515 pixmaps total Dec 26 15:53:17 sounds like something is leaking at least to some degree. Dec 26 15:53:52 konttori: 4 hours ago it was the same. Will continue monitoring it over the next few days Dec 26 15:54:09 LuciusMare: or RX51 iirc Dec 26 15:55:02 Arkenoi: That's dead simple Dec 26 15:56:35 Wait, I am counting wrong Dec 26 15:56:46 2515K is MEMORY taken by pixmaps Dec 26 16:01:01 ~425 pixmaps right now Dec 26 16:01:18 not too much Dec 26 16:02:31 Arkenoi: IroN900:~# amixer -c0 sset "Speaker Function" Off Dec 26 16:03:35 Running amixer without -cX seems to show system wide controls only Dec 26 16:04:06 seems to show PA related stuff only Dec 26 16:06:44 kill pa and you see alsa hw Dec 26 16:07:03 huh? Dec 26 16:07:31 pasuspender -- /usr/bin/amixer Dec 26 16:07:37 I got it -c0 *is* "ALSA" HW Dec 26 16:07:43 alsamixer -c 0 Dec 26 16:07:47 ok Dec 26 16:07:50 and you see alsa hw ... Dec 26 16:08:05 just like on a desktop computer using alsa Dec 26 16:08:10 and pulse Dec 26 16:08:12 yes default is pulse Dec 26 16:09:27 actually card0 is real hardware. While card1(? the default) is virtual alsa controls probably, exported by PA Dec 26 16:11:29 nationmaster.com rules Dec 26 16:11:45 how many people can you address in one sms? Dec 26 16:13:15 Hmm... .BG appears to be the most unhappy country of all Dec 26 16:13:19 uhm cut'n'paste text in sms is not possible? wtf? this is a internet tablet Dec 26 16:17:31 hmm I'm failing to figure which Device + card is pulseaudio default Dec 26 16:18:40 as in 'amixer' == 'amixer -D ? -c ?' Dec 26 16:18:40 c0? Dec 26 16:19:39 * RST38h makes another attempt to compile xchat Dec 26 16:19:43 RST38h: compare 'amixer' and 'amixer -c0' Dec 26 16:20:53 RST38h: I'd think c0 is default. Actually it's not Dec 26 16:21:34 why care? Dec 26 16:21:48 to understand? Dec 26 16:22:13 there is a wiki Dec 26 16:22:22 i think Dec 26 16:23:00 you didnt specify "default" of what Dec 26 16:23:25 default of amixer for instance Dec 26 16:23:40 pyulse Dec 26 16:23:46 -y Dec 26 16:24:05 my idea about unix cmdline options was leaving out one defaults to 0 Dec 26 16:24:26 Doc: As I said, without -c0 it only shows overall controls Dec 26 16:24:30 see alsa conf Dec 26 16:24:35 i.e. not associated with any audio device Dec 26 16:24:43 actually that's not true Dec 26 16:24:47 pulse alsa device Dec 26 16:24:51 hm Dec 26 16:24:59 compare 'alsamixer' and 'alsamixer -c0' Dec 26 16:25:02 different card Dec 26 16:25:12 actually card0 is real hardware. While card1(? the default) is virtual alsa controls probably, exported by PA Dec 26 16:25:43 Ubuntu 9.10 upgrade? Yes or no? Dec 26 16:25:48 ali1234: which card??? Dec 26 16:26:05 -c32 ? Dec 26 16:26:23 afaict alsa has a concept of a "default" card Dec 26 16:26:23 and in this case it has been patched such that the "default" is pulseaudio which does not show up under any -c n argument Dec 26 16:26:23 you can't make the PA controls show up with any value of n that i can find Dec 26 16:26:27 -c7580543 Dec 26 16:26:45 Usage: alsamixer [-h] [-c ] ... Dec 26 16:26:49 so i tried 0 - 7 Dec 26 16:27:02 yep Dec 26 16:27:02 none of them show the default PA card Dec 26 16:27:09 exactly Dec 26 16:27:15 kinda weird Dec 26 16:27:16 lool Dec 26 16:27:23 yes, probably more nokia specific hacks Dec 26 16:28:29 Anyone using openvpn? I tried make it drop privileges and I'm having some issues with it, namely it does not (can't) delete routes after disconnect. Dec 26 16:28:39 i mean, if you really want to know what's going on, just get the alsalib source and see wtf they have done to it Dec 26 16:28:51 I wish I could make low profile right angle connectors for sale. Dec 26 16:28:57 Alas - they'd have to be expensive. Dec 26 16:29:09 As they'd be handbuilt. Dec 26 16:30:25 SpeedEvil: which type? Dec 26 16:30:56 apart the fact that i'm gonna replace my phone Dec 26 16:31:04 there is a way to have a backup Dec 26 16:31:09 so every reflash Dec 26 16:31:14 RST38h: don't upgrade to 9.10, it's still horribly broken compared to 9.04 Dec 26 16:31:14 is always customized? Dec 26 16:31:18 DocScrutinizer: microb Dec 26 16:31:34 huh? XD Dec 26 16:31:34 ali: Understood, thanks Dec 26 16:31:38 * RST38h will abstain then Dec 26 16:32:15 ubuntu x.10 releases are always bad, like odd number star trek bad Dec 26 16:33:24 The magic of the numbers... Dec 26 16:33:51 SpeedEvil: microb plugins 90° ? Dec 26 16:34:04 magic of 10-based numbers Dec 26 16:34:22 DocScrutinizer: yes Dec 26 16:34:48 DocScrutinizer: so it's ~10mm out of the side of the phone, not ~40 or so Dec 26 16:35:06 who is learning ogles? Dec 26 16:35:21 bounce looks so pretty Dec 26 16:35:28 ManuelSE_: indeed, it does. Dec 26 16:35:30 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders how a flash plugin rectangle might look like Dec 26 16:37:47 SpeedEvil: I've seen 90° mini-USB, and same for 2.5 and 3.5mm Dec 26 16:38:23 not so fo microUSB Dec 26 16:41:07 yeah - what I meant Dec 26 16:41:20 have to take a plug, and bend it carefully with cutting and ... Dec 26 16:42:24 Hmm. Dec 26 16:42:33 * SpeedEvil considers a USB plug/lanyard. Dec 26 16:42:38 * DocScrutinizer51 suggests scalpel and hotglue Dec 26 16:42:45 that sort of thing, yes. Dec 26 16:42:51 though buying the plug bits Dec 26 16:43:55 if you find a source for uUSB plugs for DIY then toss me a pointer please Dec 26 16:44:17 digikey Dec 26 16:44:28 zx40 Dec 26 16:44:37 guh? Dec 26 16:44:44 never heard Dec 26 16:45:02 zx81? ;-P Dec 26 16:45:42 digikey.com Dec 26 16:46:03 nah. that's a evergreen Dec 26 16:46:19 zx40 ?? o.O Dec 26 16:46:27 * RST38h wonders why people use autoconf and write megabytes of makefiles Dec 26 16:47:00 yeah. kick autoconf ;-) Dec 26 16:47:31 * RST38h is unable to compile XChat because of this Dec 26 16:47:43 And there is no qwerty12 around to help out Dec 26 16:48:25 hmh, I want my n900 Dec 26 16:48:41 I even wrote an app and I have nowhere to test it Dec 26 16:48:46 RST38h: so we may hope for a non-segv xchat with cool scrolling eventually :))) Dec 26 16:50:03 hey everyone Dec 26 16:50:05 That is what I am trying to do Dec 26 16:50:11 But it doesn't fucking build. Dec 26 16:50:14 :/ Dec 26 16:50:32 RST38h: autotools is a blessing in disguise whose merits are only realised by the build-systems people - they maybe be horrid but my life without them was even more horrid Dec 26 16:50:42 * DocScrutinizer51 hands RST38h a candybar Dec 26 16:52:38 RST38h: also - piping to the speech synth an option plz :) Dec 26 16:53:23 * SpeedEvil tries to remember the name of that synth Dec 26 16:54:16 SpeedEvil: tail -f ~/.xchat2/logging/maemo | narrator Dec 26 16:54:47 rkirti: Build systems people have a honorable spot in my personal list of people I would like exterminated Dec 26 16:54:56 espeak? Dec 26 16:55:16 Especially considering that they are never of any use anyway Dec 26 16:55:18 Transconductance drops with increasing temp, though gate threshold drops, so if you have a high set current, the current may fall. if it's low, it may rise Dec 26 16:55:19 oops Dec 26 16:56:02 yeah - espeak Dec 26 16:56:14 heh. explaining implicit stability of FET amps? :) Dec 26 16:56:30 or instability as current sources when they get hot Dec 26 16:57:17 yeah. the nice thing with power mosfets you can parallel them without any headaches Dec 26 16:57:24 hi Dec 26 16:58:01 Someone I know recently got bit while trying to use them at -55C. Dec 26 16:58:22 -55 C? Dec 26 16:58:23 ouch Dec 26 16:58:27 Worked fine at 25, at -55, not enough Vgs to turn it on and blow the pyrotechnics. Dec 26 16:58:38 (high altitude baloon amateurs) Dec 26 16:58:44 whats new in the N900 world Dec 26 16:58:51 lol Dec 26 17:00:01 also you need special cells Dec 26 17:00:17 DocScrutinizer: AA lithium work ok Dec 26 17:00:29 primary Dec 26 17:00:43 I'd guess Z goes thru the roof Dec 26 17:00:51 aah primary Dec 26 17:02:15 can u get emulatyor sound good with pasuspender rst? Dec 26 17:04:58 eh? Dec 26 17:05:09 pasuspender most likely will break all audio except that you used it for Dec 26 17:05:30 so not a brilliant idea for a *phone* Dec 26 17:05:46 i know Dec 26 17:06:14 emulator just needs option to talk to alsa O.O Dec 26 17:06:21 Install asterisk and setup right. Dec 26 17:06:39 huh? Dec 26 17:06:39 'I am sorry, the party you called cannot be reached, as they are playing Donkey Kong'. Dec 26 17:06:49 emulator can also switch profile to busy Dec 26 17:06:53 right Dec 26 17:06:54 aah Dec 26 17:07:36 ManuelSE_: what's emu soundsystem? OSS aka /dev/dsp ? Dec 26 17:08:01 alsa Dec 26 17:09:03 so where's the problem? you should be able to config a dedicated alsa device for emu then Dec 26 17:09:03 does anyone know what font types are supported on maemo? Dec 26 17:09:04 Ah, so the answer was 'push "redirect-gateway def1"' Dec 26 17:09:10 and use dmix Dec 26 17:09:23 try it Dec 26 17:09:43 sound sputters Dec 26 17:10:00 or even the pa provided alsa compatibility layer Dec 26 17:10:30 no Dec 26 17:10:37 truetype, freetype? Dec 26 17:11:21 there is no problems with pulse except occasionally i he4 repeats in media player Dec 26 17:11:37 mmh Dec 26 17:11:45 how do i easily upload photos on n900? Dec 26 17:12:05 wget -m seems obvious, but want to do that The User Way (tm) Dec 26 17:13:52 i can't reflash emmc... Dec 26 17:13:52 thresh: on camera app Dec 26 17:14:05 uhm, i mean 'import' Dec 26 17:14:11 thresh: hit the little <8 - sort-of - icon Dec 26 17:14:12 tells me booting device into flash mode. and nothing happens Dec 26 17:14:14 ah Dec 26 17:14:21 he doesnt recognize 2° boot Dec 26 17:14:21 ManuelSE_: (sigh) the story goes like this (seen e.g for twinklephone): each current distro adopts PA "as it has much better sound and just works". Then same people ask for all alsa based apps to implement native PA support as it turns out alsa apps do *not* "just work" with PA Dec 26 17:14:23 * RST38h lazily dissects Rushmore Dec 26 17:14:27 thresh: scp * phone:/home/user/... ;) Dec 26 17:14:43 SpeedEvil: hey I asked about The User Way (tm)! :) Dec 26 17:14:57 another way to flash emmc? :) Dec 26 17:15:02 thresh: you don't need to be root, what more do you want? :) Dec 26 17:15:16 thresh: drag them on when the mmc is shared? Dec 26 17:15:30 that involves finding USB cable :) Dec 26 17:15:50 ok, so no simple downloader inside? Dec 26 17:16:18 * lcukn900 watches the grufalo Dec 26 17:17:01 i need to reformat the phone :° Dec 26 17:17:13 i must return this defect Dec 26 17:20:47 konttori, the default fonts are truetype Dec 26 17:21:50 tresh, try dftpd Dec 26 17:33:40 so who here has the leaked N900 firmware? Dec 26 17:33:41 :) Dec 26 17:34:40 thresh: sftp://N900 in desktop's browser (e.g. konqueror) ? Dec 26 17:35:01 mmh nice idea Dec 26 17:35:16 need to find out where Finder has it :) Dec 26 17:35:40 siriusnova: seems a lot of people have leaking firmware :-P Dec 26 17:35:49 lol Dec 26 17:36:04 duh, only can do afp, at, file, ftp, http, https, nfs, smb, cifs, vnc Dec 26 17:36:12 thresh: you need macfusion to make finder understand sftp Dec 26 17:36:57 * thresh doesnt like fuse Dec 26 17:37:17 but yeah, it's cool. Dec 26 17:37:18 thanks. Dec 26 17:39:19 ok, another question: how do i force media player to download album art for the songs? Dec 26 17:41:30 surprisingly it cant find any album art for Pearl Jam Dec 26 17:42:34 X-Fade: ping... Dec 26 17:51:13 Is there a way for me to boot a custom kernel without flashing it? I use the flasher options "-l -b" and I see it loads / boots the kernel but then it "plays dead" and I can't get it to boot normally Dec 26 17:51:22 WIth an n900 Dec 26 17:57:54 hello Dec 26 18:02:47 good afternoon. Dec 26 18:05:26 # so 2010 is going to be better? . the year of strides..? Dec 26 18:05:37 let's hope Dec 26 18:05:59 I just got off the phone with my 2nd nokia support person of the day, refusing to support my phone because I bought it from a reseller Dec 26 18:06:54 # wow they are giving you the cold shoulder Dec 26 18:07:00 yep Dec 26 18:07:18 kept telling me to call my reseller and ask for a new N900...which is stupid because this can be fixed easily Dec 26 18:07:36 nezb: why not call your reseller? Dec 26 18:07:48 because all I need is a new back cover Dec 26 18:07:55 NewEgg probably won't send me that :P Dec 26 18:08:11 they will send you a new n900 though Dec 26 18:08:28 they will make me send my current one back first probably Dec 26 18:09:14 Absolutely positively priceless: http://gizmodo.com/5434533/how-a-crook-conned-the-bush-administration-the-cia-and-the-pentagon?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmodo%2Ffull+%28Gizmodo%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher Dec 26 18:09:27 ^ read it Dec 26 18:09:33 hehe Dec 26 18:09:49 RST38h: I wanted to point lardman at that as a source of profit. Dec 26 18:10:12 SpeedEvil: Administration has changed Dec 26 18:10:41 SpeedEvil: Besides, you have to at least demonstrate that you believe into the same pseudo-christian mumbo jumbo as these guys Dec 26 18:11:01 So, a New Approach is needed! =) Dec 26 18:13:43 happy (almost) new year =) Dec 26 18:17:13 # alot of times these people are in the clik but after their peers turn on them . they flush all the bad stuff with these guys and make them escapeGoats and so they have a clean slate to con more. so you know who a person is by who he hangs with. Dec 26 18:29:18 "escape goat" <=== allows for such a wealth of interpretations... Dec 26 18:29:23 type_t: # doesn't work in here Dec 26 18:29:23 :P Dec 26 18:30:08 Stskeeps: do you grab my updated l10n strings? Dec 26 18:30:42 can i get bash on maemo 5? Dec 26 18:31:15 timeless_mbp: no not yet Dec 26 18:31:25 just spent 3 days at polish xmas, just came in the door Dec 26 18:31:41 GeoPing Stskeeps Dec 26 18:31:46 * timeless_mbp is in NW London Dec 26 18:31:50 well, my own apartment Dec 26 18:31:51 :P Dec 26 18:32:06 you're in eastern europe, right? Dec 26 18:32:18 * timeless_mbp isn't really used to hearing 'Posh' outside of England Dec 26 18:32:26 hello? :/ Dec 26 18:32:32 (and i've heard posh spoken aloud a number of times this weekend) Dec 26 18:32:35 polish xmas, not posh xmas Dec 26 18:32:41 or is recompiling for maemo enough? Dec 26 18:32:43 oh oops :) Dec 26 18:32:47 LuciusMare_n900: if you're suicidal Dec 26 18:32:54 it's probably in a repo Dec 26 18:32:56 why? Dec 26 18:33:07 LuciusMare_n900: just go onto the command line and apt-get install it Dec 26 18:33:08 why suicidal? Dec 26 18:33:10 well, if you aren't careful, you can break things by installing a shell :) Dec 26 18:33:16 :o Dec 26 18:33:30 what can get wrong? Dec 26 18:33:31 and who needs bash anyway Dec 26 18:33:43 * LuciusMare_n900 . Dec 26 18:33:44 LuciusMare_n900: ever heard of dear old Murphy? Dec 26 18:33:50 heh Dec 26 18:34:11 LuciusMare_n900: please make the acquaintance of Mr SSH Dec 26 18:34:18 shell is just an app,no big invading into systemm Dec 26 18:34:28 shell is not just an app Dec 26 18:34:36 ? Dec 26 18:34:40 poorly written apps make many assumptions about shells Dec 26 18:34:56 and when assumptions cease to be true, ... see Mr Murphy Dec 26 18:35:04 i need it for bash scripts Dec 26 18:35:15 i wont "use" it Dec 26 18:35:27 why use bash scripts on your n900 in the first place? Dec 26 18:35:34 what problem are you actually trying to solve? Dec 26 18:35:38 well Dec 26 18:35:46 Hi guys. Is this a right place to ask about SDK? Dec 26 18:35:56 i have a few programs Dec 26 18:35:59 you can try Dec 26 18:36:00 i use Dec 26 18:36:11 and they're written in bash Dec 26 18:36:30 bashists... Dec 26 18:36:38 i don't want to rewrite them :/ Dec 26 18:36:48 port them to perl or python :) Dec 26 18:36:49 they wont run in sh? Dec 26 18:36:51 what do they do Dec 26 18:37:08 they...execute Dec 26 18:37:16 :) Dec 26 18:37:19 I'd like to buy n900 as my work phone. I downloaded SDK to check if it's compatible with our MS Exchange mail/calendar server, but I cannot find other mail server types than IMAP4/POP3. Is SDK missing those? Dec 26 18:37:25 what shell comes with the N900? Dec 26 18:37:27 busybox? Dec 26 18:37:28 ash Dec 26 18:37:31 yes Dec 26 18:37:55 zdzichuBG: the mail sync for exchange isn't included in the sdk - it is /not/ an emulator. Dec 26 18:38:15 remoo Dec 26 18:38:19 zdzichuBG: The sdk is not an emultor Dec 26 18:38:20 oh Dec 26 18:39:37 I understand. Is there any way to install mail sync? I really need to get sure n900 will work or my boss won't approve it :/ Dec 26 18:39:45 zdzichuBG: err Dec 26 18:39:47 let's try again: Dec 26 18:39:53 the sdk is NOT an emulator Dec 26 18:39:53 lol Dec 26 18:39:55 it's an SDK Dec 26 18:40:00 for building your own applications Dec 26 18:40:06 the Nokia N900 includes MfE Dec 26 18:40:13 which is what you want. Dec 26 18:40:34 hm Dec 26 18:40:53 zdzichuBG: note that the MfE implementation supports a specific version of the ActiveSync protocol Dec 26 18:41:08 I see. Just I don't know if I want n900 if it won't work with our Exchange server. Dec 26 18:41:17 if you specify the version of your exchange server (2000, 2003, 2007, ...) someone could tell you if it's supported Dec 26 18:41:19 can i edit my kyb layout so fn+uparrow makes,for example pipe? Dec 26 18:41:19 timeless_mbp: that's why I want to test first. Dec 26 18:41:31 LuciusMare_n900: you could Dec 26 18:41:42 zdzichuBG: so find a friend and borrow his. Dec 26 18:41:51 how? Dec 26 18:41:56 but simply put, all you have to do is tell us which version of exchange server you have Dec 26 18:42:03 and you'll get a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer Dec 26 18:42:09 there's no 'testing' required Dec 26 18:42:19 zdzichuBG: noone sane will buy a large quantity of n900s without trying out a trial one anyway :P Dec 26 18:42:28 zdzichuBG: you can't test, the sdk doesn't have the mail for exchange software in it Dec 26 18:42:38 i don't think any phones allow you to test like you want to though Dec 26 18:42:38 timeless_mbp: which versions of exchange does it support? :) Dec 26 18:42:49 heh Dec 26 18:42:57 timeless_mbp: sure, but if I knew it I would be able to google it ;) I have no chance in penetrating corporate IT and getting know what software we run at GE. Dec 26 18:43:05 I'm too low in food chain :/ Dec 26 18:43:08 give us an account on your work server, and we can tell you if it works :P Dec 26 18:43:12 i am not sure if n900 w/ its price and all featurer Dec 26 18:43:18 Robot101: i'll let Vitaly answer that, since it's his baby Dec 26 18:43:33 timeless_mbp: is there any plan to make it work better with gmail? Dec 26 18:43:33 hi Dec 26 18:43:34 features good as a business phone Dec 26 18:43:47 Robot101: officially no one has stated such a thing Dec 26 18:43:48 grr greylisting Dec 26 18:43:56 reality of the matter is that everyone inside wants it to work Dec 26 18:43:59 so ... Dec 26 18:43:59 is there a way to install maemo5 update on n900? Dec 26 18:44:09 hrw|gone-to-2010: eh? Dec 26 18:44:11 timeless_mbp: or even ovi would be good enough, being forced to use the PC suite on windows is pretty depressing Dec 26 18:44:39 the built-in sync didn't work with any of my family's phones :( Dec 26 18:45:01 timeless: ham told me that there is update to 'maemo5' package but also told that it require using pc Dec 26 18:45:01 rsync ftw :P Dec 26 18:45:26 We have some phones "approved" like Nokia E61, E75, Blackberries... I can use company money to buy unapproved phone like n900 but it need to work. Dec 26 18:45:27 hrw: oh wow Dec 26 18:45:31 how can i edit my kyb layout so fn+uparrow makes,for example pipe? Dec 26 18:45:43 hrw: eventually we intend to support updating over the air Dec 26 18:45:48 zdzichuBG: well you can't know before you try Dec 26 18:45:54 i believe that you're just at an in between point Dec 26 18:46:00 where we haven't done enough testing for 1.1 Dec 26 18:46:05 and it's christmas Dec 26 18:46:10 oook, now they tell me what I need to do Dec 26 18:46:17 wazd: DDP? Dec 26 18:46:18 timeless: so user will be forced to pcsuite crap? Dec 26 18:46:27 hrw: they shouldn't Dec 26 18:46:28 Stskeeps: blog visitors :) Dec 26 18:46:32 ok Dec 26 18:46:34 an update to the battery would be nice Dec 26 18:46:34 :] Dec 26 18:46:35 they should wait patiently Dec 26 18:46:38 wazd: ah Dec 26 18:46:41 for more testing by us+others Dec 26 18:46:46 and then they should get over the air updates Dec 26 18:46:51 at least, that was the last plan i heard Dec 26 18:46:57 otoh, i hear about things later than everyone else Dec 26 18:47:05 my news is typically 1month old :) Dec 26 18:47:11 timeless: 2010 feb? Dec 26 18:47:45 the firmware update is available for manual install now? Dec 26 18:47:49 hrw: "i dunno" Dec 26 18:47:58 go1dfish: it was listed in maemo-community Dec 26 18:48:06 (whatever that is) Dec 26 18:48:21 right, time to try dual-booting my n900 Dec 26 18:48:45 with dual maemo5 Dec 26 18:49:20 so, Robot101, i believe MfE supports 2007 (as I believe that's what my server uses) Dec 26 18:49:42 wow Dec 26 18:49:47 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35136 Dec 26 18:49:52 dual-booting a rover Dec 26 18:49:55 describes the MfE support Dec 26 18:50:16 see, Vitaly is out there in the public, explaining what we support Dec 26 18:50:28 and he's even announcing what is coming Dec 26 18:50:35 shocking isn't it? Dec 26 18:50:46 oddly, i found that by googling: maemo mfe 2003 2007 Dec 26 18:50:55 konttori_nokia: around? :) Dec 26 18:52:05 timeless_mbp: good man, cool Dec 26 18:52:10 :/ Dec 26 18:52:13 how can i edit my kyb layout so fn+uparrow makes,for example pipe? Dec 26 18:52:22 thanks guys. Dec 26 18:52:33 Stskeeps: time for a post btw ;_ Dec 26 18:52:39 Stskeeps: ;) Dec 26 18:53:10 Stskeeps: is there a good guide for booting from microSD on n900? Dec 26 18:54:38 * wazd ponders if his blog will reach 10k visitors/month in december :) Dec 26 18:57:00 woah Dec 26 18:57:53 wazd: cool Dec 26 18:57:58 go1dfish: that's what i'm working on Dec 26 18:58:12 Stskeeps: cool, yeah I just found your thread, boot menu etc... Dec 26 18:59:21 go1dfish: right now i'm trying to use the 2gb partition for it where /opt is as well Dec 26 18:59:26 easier for my debugging :P Dec 26 18:59:33 heh Dec 26 18:59:55 I've got a brand new class 4 4gb card I got specifically for trying out other booting arrangements Dec 26 19:00:06 alright Dec 26 19:00:17 i'll let you know when i have something that works then, K? Dec 26 19:00:29 cool, will be happy to help test Dec 26 19:00:52 how can i edit my kyb layout so fn+uparrow makes,for example pipe? Dec 26 19:00:55 you might as well prepare by having PR1.0 and rsync installed Dec 26 19:01:13 i know how to do the regular changing of layout Dec 26 19:01:41 PR1.0 == 42-11 correct?, already have rsync to :) Dec 26 19:02:04 for a while my about product screen was showing (null) for just about everything, but it's showing up right now heh Dec 26 19:02:31 i think i have permanently screwed mine by making my own ubifs Dec 26 19:02:31 :P Dec 26 19:03:12 heh Dec 26 19:03:47 What are the 'composite' images that are downloadable. Are these merely kerenl + rootfs? Dec 26 19:03:55 hey Dec 26 19:04:08 does anyone here have access to Lotus Traveller? Dec 26 19:04:37 SpeedEvil: FIASCO? Dec 26 19:04:48 yeah Dec 26 19:05:00 SpeedEvil: it's basically kernel+rootfs+bootloader or emmc contents etc etc Dec 26 19:05:06 Err - combined Dec 26 19:05:24 0xffff site has some specifics for n8x0 Dec 26 19:05:32 * timeless_mbp has never seen a fiasco w/ both rootfs and emmc Dec 26 19:05:38 I broke my python. Dec 26 19:05:43 So I need to flash. Dec 26 19:05:56 SpeedEvil: do you mean 'combined' Dec 26 19:06:02 timeless_mbp: note the "or" Dec 26 19:06:12 Stskeeps: the 'etc etc' bit bugged me :) Dec 26 19:06:18 yeah :P Dec 26 19:06:18 Either flash, or work out how to tell apt that I want it to blow away all of the packages, and let me remove any trailing files. Dec 26 19:06:22 hm Dec 26 19:06:24 timeless: I do Dec 26 19:06:25 afaik, the label has something to do w/ which target devices are supported Dec 26 19:06:26 I haven't bricked or needed to reflash mine yet, I must not be trying hard enough :) Dec 26 19:06:52 go1dfish: you don't have to be one of the privileged few Dec 26 19:06:58 we don't award any prizes for doing so Dec 26 19:07:01 when i select install forecaweather from the menu,it just throws me to app manager,nothing else Dec 26 19:07:05 flashing doesn't touch home? Dec 26 19:07:10 well, i can probably pass out dunce caps :) Dec 26 19:07:12 I've filled up my rootfs a few times Dec 26 19:07:17 SpeedEvil: it depends on what you flash Dec 26 19:07:19 but had the forsight to clean things up before rebooting Dec 26 19:07:33 but just flashing rootfs doesn't touch home Dec 26 19:07:54 likewise, flashing eMMC doesn't touch home Dec 26 19:08:05 actually Dec 26 19:08:06 meh - tar is my friend. Dec 26 19:08:08 wait, no that's wrong Dec 26 19:08:14 since home is on eMMC Dec 26 19:08:15 sorry :) Dec 26 19:08:19 * timeless_mbp is tired Dec 26 19:08:23 :) Dec 26 19:08:25 yeah, flashing eMMC will roast home Dec 26 19:08:36 * SpeedEvil shoots timeless_mbp with a caffine gun. Dec 26 19:08:53 * timeless_mbp should just go outside and get some GBPs Dec 26 19:11:45 why nobody here answers me? Dec 26 19:12:01 we have nothing to say Dec 26 19:12:12 LuciusMare_n900: use OMW Dec 26 19:12:18 LuciusMare_n900: because nobody happens to understand your question, have the inclination and the knowledge to answer it. Dec 26 19:12:20 OMW? Dec 26 19:12:24 * SpeedEvil wants yrweather. Dec 26 19:12:32 yr.no ++ Dec 26 19:12:35 LuciusMare_n900: OMWeather Dec 26 19:12:41 Will even spit out xml Dec 26 19:12:47 oh Dec 26 19:13:45 * wazd thinks that OMW will tomorrow reach 10k downloads :) Dec 26 19:14:03 if you dont understand my questions, you can ask Dec 26 19:15:20 LuciusMare_n900: I guess if you want to install foreca anyway, you should locate it in HAM Dec 26 19:15:28 ~HAM Dec 26 19:15:34 from memory, ham is oink oink Dec 26 19:15:40 :D Dec 26 19:15:53 infobot ++ Dec 26 19:15:53 O_o Dec 26 19:15:54 rumour has it, + is a nice kitty, or a way to force me to answer in public (like, \"~+foo\" -> \" foo is bar\") Dec 26 19:16:19 hildon aplication manager Dec 26 19:16:34 haha Dec 26 19:16:35 infobot: forget HAM Dec 26 19:16:46 use CHEESE Dec 26 19:17:01 infobot: HAM is Hildon Application Manager Dec 26 19:17:03 ...but ham is already something else... Dec 26 19:17:05 ~HAN Dec 26 19:17:09 ~HAM Dec 26 19:17:11 from memory, ham is oink oink Dec 26 19:17:18 forget fail Dec 26 19:17:22 infobot: forget HAM goddamn! Dec 26 19:17:23 i didn't have anything called 'ham goddamn!' to forget, wazd Dec 26 19:17:30 haha Dec 26 19:17:34 infobot: forget HAM Dec 26 19:17:46 ~HAM Dec 26 19:17:47 from memory, ham is oink oink Dec 26 19:17:52 ... Dec 26 19:18:00 no, he should confirm Dec 26 19:18:08 ~forget HAM Dec 26 19:18:33 ~burn himself Dec 26 19:18:34 * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Dec 26 19:18:44 ~rover Dec 26 19:18:51 :O Dec 26 19:19:17 ~microsoft Dec 26 19:19:19 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is the day they start making vacuum cleaners." Dec 26 19:19:38 ~linux Dec 26 19:19:39 from memory, linux is an operating system that beats the socks off Windows and Mac! Go Linux! Dec 26 19:19:51 its a linux fanboy! Dec 26 19:19:52 ~infobot Dec 26 19:19:54 extra, extra, read all about it, infobot is The coolest Dec 26 19:20:19 ~hurd Dec 26 19:20:21 extra, extra, read all about it, hurd is The GNU Hurd is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. http://hurd.gnu.org/ It stands for HIRD of UNIX Replacing Daemons. The Hurd is a collection of servers that run on the Mach microkernel, and on l4 in the future, to implement file systems, network protocols, file access control, and other features that are implemented by the Unix kernel or similar kernels (such as Linux). Dec 26 19:20:42 ~emacs Dec 26 19:20:44 extra, extra, read all about it, emacs is as useless as vim if you don't wanna learn it Dec 26 19:20:52 infobot: can you forget anything? Dec 26 19:21:00 :) Dec 26 19:21:07 ~wazd Dec 26 19:21:08 from memory, wazd is The Greatest Prince of the Universe Dec 26 19:21:15 huh Dec 26 19:21:21 :D Dec 26 19:21:23 ~LuciusMare Dec 26 19:21:31 traitor Dec 26 19:21:51 infobot: forget HAM Dec 26 19:22:08 infobot: cook BACON Dec 26 19:22:10 * infobot throws BACON in a big pan with veggies inside and cooks BACON on 350 for an hour Dec 26 19:22:20 ^^ Dec 26 19:22:41 what's wrong with forget I wonder :) Dec 26 19:23:25 ~forget Dec 26 19:23:48 ~chickem Dec 26 19:23:51 ~chicken Dec 26 19:23:52 from memory, chicken is http://kellari.org/other/linux/wanted.jpg , or free-food for all!, or a language, or (Gallus gallus) is a type of domesticated bird which is often raised as a type of poultry. It is believed to be descended from the wild Asian Red Junglefowl. Dec 26 19:24:01 ~lart Dec 26 19:24:12 ~fart Dec 26 19:24:13 * infobot farts, releasing large quantities of methane and sulfur dioxide. "Evacuate the channel! GO! *gag* SAVE YOURSELVES *cough* MOVE *choke* MOVE!" Dec 26 19:24:31 ipsec .. ipv6? .. mhm Dec 26 19:24:34 meh Dec 26 19:24:59 ~bash Dec 26 19:25:01 sh-compatible command language interpreter. URL: http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/, or ugly, or another word for a 'do' Dec 26 19:25:09 :) Dec 26 19:25:16 ~lol Dec 26 19:25:17 well, lol is stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead. Dec 26 19:25:39 slow day? Dec 26 19:25:49 moin Dec 26 19:26:00 ~moo Dec 26 19:26:01 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Dec 26 19:26:21 yo! Dec 26 19:26:59 ~ubuntu Dec 26 19:27:01 Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see ). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. Dec 26 19:27:12 ~cthulhu Dec 26 19:27:13 Ia! Ia! Cthulhu ftaghn! or i heard cthulhu was an ancient horror, sleeping below the seas in dread R'lyeh. or a figment of '30s horror author H.P. Lovecraft's imagination.. Ph'nglui Mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'Lyeh Wgah'nagl Fhtagn Dec 26 19:27:37 LuciusMare_n900: please stop abusing the bot Dec 26 19:27:54 ok,sorry Dec 26 19:28:03 i find myself wondering where it draws its data from... Dec 26 19:28:07 i found yet another way to crash the device :P Dec 26 19:28:16 cehteh: tell us Dec 26 19:28:33 echo heartbeat >/sys/class/leds../trigger Dec 26 19:28:36 t_s_o: infobots support infopacks Dec 26 19:28:41 ? Dec 26 19:28:44 you can install as many as you like when you set them up Dec 26 19:28:49 ? Dec 26 19:28:52 ... Dec 26 19:28:58 what does it do? Dec 26 19:29:00 infobot: infobot ? Dec 26 19:29:02 i guess infobot is The coolest Dec 26 19:29:06 ... Dec 26 19:29:13 ~infobot Dec 26 19:29:15 i guess infobot is The coolest Dec 26 19:29:15 timeless_mbp: thanks, not that familiar with irc bots... Dec 26 19:29:15 normally it connect the kernel heartbeat to the led .. Dec 26 19:29:30 cehteh: and un-normally? Dec 26 19:29:41 but since the led driver is a small microcontroler it might send some unexpected interrupt Dec 26 19:30:06 the n900 programs this already to do the blinking without cpu intervention Dec 26 19:30:26 LuciusMare_n900: fwiw, 'normal' supports 'abnormal' not 'unnormal' Dec 26 19:30:36 i know ;) Dec 26 19:30:38 echo 255 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:r/brightness Dec 26 19:30:44 you can do that without crash :) Dec 26 19:31:02 wow Dec 26 19:31:08 how to stop it? Dec 26 19:32:11 it just keepw flashing Dec 26 19:32:13 guys Dec 26 19:32:50 thats not funny Dec 26 19:34:08 it stopped Dec 26 19:34:10 LuciusMare_n900: don't run random commands you don't understand on your phone :P, im sure a reboot should fix it? or likely just plugging it in to charge, or anything else that changes the light Dec 26 19:34:20 ok Dec 26 19:34:27 it was a lesson ;) Dec 26 19:34:32 LuciusMare_n900, there's an Igalia blog post to remap. Dec 26 19:34:40 Google should turn it up. Dec 26 19:35:02 The Application Manager is processing, just give it some time. Dec 26 19:35:08 "n900 remap"? Dec 26 19:35:29 t_s_o: Why? From Rl'yeh of course! Dec 26 19:35:32 ~fhtagn Dec 26 19:35:33 oh Dec 26 19:35:42 hm Dec 26 19:36:07 RST38h: heh, by way of a canadian isp no dout ;) Dec 26 19:36:10 GAN900: 7306 Dec 26 19:36:16 please tell that reporter to piss of Dec 26 19:36:17 f Dec 26 19:36:25 he's totally ruining my holiday cheer Dec 26 19:37:03 bug 7306 Dec 26 19:37:04 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7306 Browser doesn't open URL of schemas that not defined at uri-action-defaults.list. Dec 26 19:37:11 bash supports multiple files @ 1 command - for example mv {a,b,c} foo moves all,a and b and c to bar. can busybox do that? Dec 26 19:37:21 meh Dec 26 19:37:28 LuciusMare_n900: have you considered testing? Dec 26 19:37:31 moves them to foo,ofc Dec 26 19:37:33 i did Dec 26 19:37:37 it does not work Dec 26 19:38:49 perl -e 'print <{apps,9}>' Dec 26 19:38:52 seems to work Dec 26 19:38:57 so use perl :) Dec 26 19:39:31 hah Dec 26 19:39:41 what's funny? Dec 26 19:39:42 it works. Dec 26 19:39:44 it's supported Dec 26 19:39:47 it will continue to work Dec 26 19:39:54 you can even use it from busybox (as i did) Dec 26 19:40:34 :/ Dec 26 19:40:49 timeless_mbp, hahaha Dec 26 19:41:03 GAN900: anyway, please do tell him to piss off Dec 26 19:41:13 what the **** is he thinking? Dec 26 19:41:19 ? Dec 26 19:41:28 LuciusMare_n900: stay out of this Dec 26 19:41:31 it's bad for your health Dec 26 19:41:40 ... Dec 26 19:41:55 * LuciusMare_n900 stopped understanding a few minutes agp Dec 26 19:42:11 timeless_mbp, meh, my Holiday Cheer is currently intact. I'm eating a Christmas turkey sandwich and enjoying the feeling of my cold fading away. :P Dec 26 19:42:15 if you aren't sober enough to retain context, you should try to remain merrily naive Dec 26 19:42:32 timeless_mbp, I'll con Andre into putting on the firesuit after the holidays. Dec 26 19:42:42 i dont know what is wrong there Dec 26 19:42:47 I've never understood why people like turkey, to be honest. I've had it made every which way and I've never taken to it. Dec 26 19:42:49 why is the perl bad? Dec 26 19:43:01 LuciusMare_n900: there's nothing wrong w/ perl Dec 26 19:43:09 then what? Dec 26 19:43:10 the context has nothing to do with stuff here Dec 26 19:43:27 again, if you aren't sober enough to follow the context, you are better served by being merrily naive Dec 26 19:43:34 * timeless_mbp goes out Dec 26 19:44:02 * LuciusMare_n900 passes out Dec 26 19:44:10 wise choice of actions Dec 26 19:44:54 GiantTalkingCow, you clearly haven't had it served hot and smoothered in gravy on toasted rye bread. :P Dec 26 19:45:11 GAN900: Sounds nice, maybe I'll give it a try. Dec 26 19:45:14 hei guys how to type chinese can anyone tell me if there is a third party software Dec 26 19:46:22 really appreciate Dec 26 19:46:43 jiajia: I'm checking right now, but can't find anything right away, sorry. Dec 26 19:46:54 jiajia, don't think so yet, but somebody's always come up with something in the past. Dec 26 19:46:59 hei thanks a lot Dec 26 19:47:54 everyone thanks i hope there is chinese input so it will be easier for me type chinese with my gf Dec 26 19:48:32 It doesn't look as if there's any Chinese input at the moment. Unless I've missed something. :( Dec 26 19:48:48 hope there is:) Dec 26 19:53:47 Still no luck finding Chinese input, I'm sorry to say. You'd think that with the number of people who use it, Nokia would've added support. Dec 26 20:00:21 aww Dec 26 20:00:58 i was thinking of more fun command Dec 26 20:02:35 heh Dec 26 20:02:45 there isn't any but that emacs workaround Dec 26 20:04:28 * wazd looks thru Miniature thread and smiles :) Dec 26 20:05:46 what? Dec 26 20:06:17 did you answer ? i fell asleep Dec 26 20:06:51 RST38h: well, they try to invent a UI for chess :) Dec 26 20:07:15 are they having fun though? Dec 26 20:08:16 RST38h: I hope :) Dec 26 20:08:26 that is all that matters :) Dec 26 20:17:47 http://vader.joemonster.org/upload/zbf/301715852333321377_2af2.jpg Dec 26 20:18:30 hi, I'm trying to setup ssh. I want to use the phone to get to a server. The phone doesn't have a .ssh directory.. what should i do ? Dec 26 20:18:52 mkdir .ssh ? :) Dec 26 20:18:54 dont panic Dec 26 20:19:04 well call ssh-keygen it will generate it Dec 26 20:19:26 ah, I'll try that, Dec 26 20:19:57 otherwise mkdir and chmod go-rwx Dec 26 20:20:08 then you may put existing keys there Dec 26 20:20:10 I want the regular user to be able to ssh into the server Dec 26 20:20:19 is that not advised? Dec 26 20:20:41 I saw the message about creating the directory /root/.ssh... Dec 26 20:20:44 if you dispense with passwords Dec 26 20:20:53 then maybe you have nne Dec 26 20:21:05 you have to do that as user Dec 26 20:21:14 you are logged in as root or? Dec 26 20:21:42 i would suggest other command line things Dec 26 20:22:02 reminds me to delete passwords :) Dec 26 20:22:04 like echo exit to .bashrc Dec 26 20:22:26 i'm root Dec 26 20:22:31 the passcode used to lock the device is stored somewhere else or? Dec 26 20:22:36 I'll just do it as root Dec 26 20:23:00 well if u give pwdless ssh to n900 then you ddi what u do Dec 26 20:23:05 mythtv: ssh-keygen makes the key for the user who calls it .. so be user not root Dec 26 20:23:14 and do wat u dod Dec 26 20:23:20 then act surprised Dec 26 20:23:25 be fun Dec 26 20:23:29 ManuelSE_: woot? Dec 26 20:23:42 ya Dec 26 20:23:48 woot and lul Dec 26 20:23:53 disable passwords, key login only, my usual setup Dec 26 20:24:07 fine Dec 26 20:24:07 is it possible to paste text into a file somehow? Dec 26 20:24:26 I wish I had nano Dec 26 20:24:32 cehteh: that's an interesting question where hw lockkey is stored Dec 26 20:24:33 cat >file ? Dec 26 20:25:46 the text has " and new lines Dec 26 20:26:02 probablly /\ as well Dec 26 20:26:44 i use vi Dec 26 20:26:47 DocScrutinizer: i hope it is not the 'user' password .. i am up to delete that :) Dec 26 20:26:54 well maybe i just disable Dec 26 20:27:38 cehteh: a really bad idea to delete user password Dec 26 20:27:42 hey another question, does someone manage to synchronize zimbra with the n900 ? Dec 26 20:27:46 DocScrutinizer: why? Dec 26 20:28:03 mythtv: apt-get install nano? ;) Dec 26 20:28:09 with delete i mean disable .. not passwordless Dec 26 20:28:26 well depends on what services u use. and which config for those Dec 26 20:28:58 there is no nano :( Dec 26 20:29:07 apt-get install nano Dec 26 20:29:15 there is emacs too :) Dec 26 20:29:30 DocScrutinizer: ah user password != lock code -- puh :) Dec 26 20:29:48 * cehteh deletes the password hashes completely :) Dec 26 20:30:12 no. isn't. otherwise I wouldn't say it's inzeresting Q where it's stored Dec 26 20:30:21 VISUAL=nano vipw Dec 26 20:30:31 ftw Dec 26 20:30:35 nano! nano! nano! Dec 26 20:31:06 mythtv, doesn't this one work http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/n/nano/nano_2.0.7-4_armel.deb ? Dec 26 20:31:26 nano is a pita Dec 26 20:31:37 MohammadAG: there *is* nano in devel or extras or testing Dec 26 20:31:49 other than crashing on Ctrl+W, it is ok Dec 26 20:32:25 * cehteh sshs to his n900 Dec 26 20:32:46 cehteh, haven't checked all apps yet, just cba to do it on the SDK when my device is arriving on monday Dec 26 20:32:48 go1dfish: current status: it stalls somewhere in pin query, which is interesting, since i don't have a PIN Dec 26 20:33:37 Stskeeps: I havent set one either Dec 26 20:33:42 can one use ssh-keys for openvpn? Dec 26 20:33:43 iirc the default pin is 12345 Dec 26 20:33:50 go1dfish: yeah but this is not lock code :/ Dec 26 20:33:52 somehow convert them? Dec 26 20:33:57 go1dfish: it doesn't even show the pin query Dec 26 20:34:02 Stskeeps: pin for what? Dec 26 20:34:02 oh Dec 26 20:34:07 cehteh: sim Dec 26 20:34:12 I need to copy text from a webpage and paste it into a file, the file is not accessable by the GUI text editor it seems Dec 26 20:34:20 any ideas? Dec 26 20:34:38 cat >>file ? Dec 26 20:34:53 mythtv: install leafpad Dec 26 20:34:54 mythtv: web page in microb? Dec 26 20:35:00 leafpad /path/to/file Dec 26 20:35:17 ok I have leafpad but how to copy? Dec 26 20:35:27 in microb... Dec 26 20:35:37 swipe finger in from left side of screen under speaker in Dec 26 20:35:44 you'll get a new icon with a mouse cursor Dec 26 20:35:47 mythtv: you can enable the mouse cursor in microb by sliding the stylus (or finger) in from the left lower middle side Dec 26 20:35:49 the webpage is firefox Dec 26 20:35:51 press it, then you'll be able to select text Dec 26 20:36:03 then a arrow appears, click it and you can select text Dec 26 20:36:04 don't know how to on firefox/fennec Dec 26 20:36:10 is microb a differnet browser ? Dec 26 20:36:10 guys. there is sim pin. and then there's hw lock password Dec 26 20:36:20 obviously Dec 26 20:36:22 DocScrutinizer51: i'm quite sure this one is the sim pin. Dec 26 20:36:27 fennec =/= fennec Dec 26 20:36:31 o.o Dec 26 20:36:34 it doesn't show it, but my serial says otherwise. Dec 26 20:36:36 fennec =/= microb Dec 26 20:36:38 mythtv: microb = 'Web' on the device, the default browser Dec 26 20:36:54 * cehteh installed fennec and is not yet impressed Dec 26 20:36:56 fennec == firefox mobile or just 'firefox' on the device Dec 26 20:37:08 cehteh: does fennec do portrait? Dec 26 20:37:12 takes ages to start, swallows ram like no tomorrow Dec 26 20:37:12 fennec is a resource hog Dec 26 20:37:18 i dint even try Dec 26 20:37:23 cehteh: just like the desktop heh Dec 26 20:37:30 yeah i really love microb Dec 26 20:37:38 Stskeeps: missing info here to guess. But you should be able to tell from requester label, no? Dec 26 20:37:38 microb is nice Dec 26 20:37:41 apparently, it is not possible to persuade mozilla people to stop hogging memory Dec 26 20:37:58 been messing with midori today, it's pretty cool, and does portrait, but only through accelerometer/automatic Dec 26 20:38:07 well microb is also mozilla based Dec 26 20:38:26 anyone else using microb with JIT enabled? Dec 26 20:38:27 DocScrutinizer51: trying to get m5 dual-booting and there's a weird stall where it waits for a pin and halts bootup :P Dec 26 20:38:31 midori seems to lack some nice features Dec 26 20:38:46 Stskeeps: without asking for pin? Dec 26 20:38:48 DocScrutinizer51: without showing it on screen Dec 26 20:39:02 ok I got it thanks for help Dec 26 20:39:03 Stskeeps: remove the sim? Dec 26 20:39:12 cehteh: yeah, but kinda useless not to go head on :) Dec 26 20:39:24 killing the process over serial made it boot a bit Dec 26 20:39:26 Stskeeps: well at least proofs that this is the problem Dec 26 20:39:26 Stskeeps: seems thats pin indeed Dec 26 20:39:45 are the cellular drivers open? i.e. any chance at getting cellular working in a non-maemo os on the n900? Dec 26 20:40:10 go1dfish: general rule is that nokia don't mind nokia software on nokia devices.. Dec 26 20:40:12 can you install some gstreamer stuff to make the built-in media player support .flv? Dec 26 20:40:19 driver is just tty .. no celluar firmware is open Dec 26 20:40:23 silly question: how can I make a dbus call from the qml javascript? Dec 26 20:40:29 not even on freerunner it was/is Dec 26 20:40:44 go1dfish: its planned for ofono at some point Dec 26 20:40:46 Robot101, I think I saw extra codecs on a repository Dec 26 20:40:51 konttori: oh, you're back :) Dec 26 20:40:55 I'm following directions for fedora to setup ssh,, it says to copy the public key to a file called ~/.ssh/authorized_keys this file does not exist,, is it ok it create it.. or is maemo different from Fedora ? Dec 26 20:41:08 yeah. I was putting baby to sleep, then watched a movie Dec 26 20:41:12 go1dfish: the firmware you'll still need to use a blob from nokia Dec 26 20:41:14 konttori: system()? Dec 26 20:41:16 Stskeeps: the pin is queried really early in bootup' to enable concurrent gsm and system init Dec 26 20:41:20 go1dfish: but that runs on the CMT chip Dec 26 20:41:23 mythtv: you can just create that file Dec 26 20:41:32 cehteh: thanks Dec 26 20:41:41 konttori: Now bat runs TM Dec 26 20:41:42 but ensure that only user has permission, not group and other Dec 26 20:41:46 go1dfish: but no, there's no problem really Dec 26 20:41:47 ssh is quite picky Dec 26 20:41:53 Robot101: cool, firmware blobs don't bother me so bad, I am a fan of openness for the practical benefits, the philosophy is nice to, but flexibility is key Dec 26 20:42:04 konttori: but I still can't build theme Dec 26 20:42:04 go1dfish: it's about asking nicely really and work with them Dec 26 20:42:24 mythtv: cat id_rsa.pub >>.ssh/authorized_keys Dec 26 20:42:38 go1dfish: http://wiki.maemo.org/Token_based_access_restriction Dec 26 20:42:43 so the only piece of hardware that would be problematic on alternate OS's would be the DSP and the GPU correct? Dec 26 20:42:50 Stskeeps: I'd guess this early non X query dialog blocks X init to stop X interfere with it Dec 26 20:42:52 go1dfish: not even those really.. Dec 26 20:43:01 konttori: last string is "at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source) Dec 26 20:43:08 go1dfish: most of the stuff can be gotten through SSU repositories Dec 26 20:43:14 wazd: was it able to create the theme folder? Dec 26 20:43:25 go1dfish: or through the SDK repository Dec 26 20:43:35 does the theme folder contain DEBIAN and opt? Dec 26 20:43:49 konttori: debian and usr Dec 26 20:43:56 Stskeeps: or if it's not X then maybe the window manager Dec 26 20:43:59 Stskeeps: thats cool Dec 26 20:44:16 DocScrutinizer51: i am thinking that matchbox might be messing up.. but i'll investigate it later Dec 26 20:44:21 but not a complete solution, breaks down if you want to get really different and run BSD, HURD etc... Dec 26 20:44:31 wazd: sounds like you have old version of theme maker Dec 26 20:44:35 go1dfish: yes, but there's no way to run something else than linux kernels anyway Dec 26 20:44:37 but still very nice Dec 26 20:44:37 new one makes opt folder Dec 26 20:44:46 mythtv: there is also the 'ssh-copy-id' command ... at least on debian which does this nicely Dec 26 20:44:50 konttori: hmm Dec 26 20:45:01 go1dfish: the only problem is distributing images with closed stuff but there's ways to deal with that Dec 26 20:45:06 but you need password login enabled on the target machine for that, at least to install the key Dec 26 20:45:29 go1dfish: which is what token stuff is supposed to fix Dec 26 20:48:10 Stskeeps: what would it take to get a packages.maemo.org like packages.debian.org / ubuntu.com? Dec 26 20:48:29 Robot101: i think jeremiah was working on something like that.. though, isn't maemo.org/packages a bit like this? Dec 26 20:49:27 ok I'm ssh'ing but getting a non-response I assume it will time out Dec 26 20:49:37 I can ping the address Dec 26 20:49:52 perhaps it's a router issue? Dec 26 20:50:06 RST38h: thanks. And would you happen to know if JIT is enabled on the qt4.6 maemo port for qtscript? Dec 26 20:50:52 it's using protocol 2 (not sure what that means) Dec 26 20:51:33 mythtv: pc to n900 will at times time out due to PSM Dec 26 20:52:00 the pc would be the server, I wouldn't want to allow someone to the phone Dec 26 20:54:07 I see in /etc/ssh/sshconfig there is a line IdentityFile ~/.ssh/identity I had assumed this would have been ~/.ssh/authorized_keys Dec 26 20:54:24 on what side? Dec 26 20:54:43 you want from phone to server Dec 26 20:55:29 so you dont need sshd running on phone, you need the server authorized keys file prepped with the phones id_rsa.pup Dec 26 20:55:30 yes Dec 26 20:55:33 phone to server Dec 26 20:55:48 the config file was on the phone Dec 26 20:55:53 has your server password logins? Dec 26 20:56:13 you dont need to change config for that. defaults work Dec 26 20:56:22 the server was setup to use a public key,, I trasfered this to the phone, and changed the port Dec 26 20:56:40 thats the wrong way around Dec 26 20:56:59 I think I've already setup the server correctly Dec 26 20:57:03 no password logins on your server (usually sane, but makes this a little harder) Dec 26 20:57:16 well you think :) .. does it work? :) Dec 26 20:57:17 it might just be a router thing Dec 26 20:57:48 is there anyway to tell,, I'm assuming it's a NAT router so hoping it would just work Dec 26 20:58:01 The New York Times is reporting that no one will be able to move from their seats during the last hour of flight. That means no bathroom breaks, no accessing carry-on luggage, nothing. When that plane starts descending, you're planted. Dec 26 20:58:14 the simplest thing to set this up is 'ssh-copy-id login@serv.er' but that needs password auth Dec 26 20:58:22 Multiple sources, among them Xeni Jardin of Boing Boing, have also been told that no electronics are allowed on international flights Dec 26 20:58:57 soon passenger must board naked Dec 26 20:59:10 centeh: My idea exactly Dec 26 20:59:22 interesting how this phone doesn't overheat like all other nokias Dec 26 20:59:26 we want a naked crew too then Dec 26 20:59:28 that new scanner they have is basically that Dec 26 20:59:37 centeh: naked, full body search, including anal cavity, airline-issues pajamas Dec 26 20:59:40 Milo-: i am sure you can do that :) Dec 26 20:59:41 RST38h: south park episode where mr garrison makes a replacement transportation vehicle comes to mind as more comfortable Dec 26 20:59:57 centeh: and a shot of valium to polish off the experience Dec 26 21:00:09 cehteh not sure if I wanted to see tekojo naked o_O Dec 26 21:00:10 since we are all off topic,, google wtc7 all of this started with a lie Dec 26 21:00:35 lol Dec 26 21:00:48 * cehteh going to setup openvpn Dec 26 21:00:54 not being able to use my beloved n900 on the inbound US flight is very on topic Dec 26 21:01:00 naked openvpn? Dec 26 21:01:27 i dont care .. i never used it before looks like some setup pita Dec 26 21:01:30 RST38h why not? Dec 26 21:01:47 is it worth looking at my router? is there anyway to tell if the router is the problem? I can ping, and behind the router is only 1 computer which is the server Dec 26 21:02:19 Milo: US is getting all terrorist all over again Dec 26 21:02:29 Milo-: my n900 gets warm when charging .. combine that with 100% cpu, dsp and gpu load and i bet it will overheat Dec 26 21:02:52 actually earlier today the cpu ran at 100% and it got quite warm Dec 26 21:03:12 I don't know if you can call them terrorist if they had military training in san diego Dec 26 21:03:14 xinput server was borked somehow, had to reboot it Dec 26 21:03:21 RST38h great, does that mean you will have to hand over your phones before flight? Dec 26 21:03:38 the simple static key openvpn setup is pretty trivial Dec 26 21:03:39 Milo: No idea Dec 26 21:03:50 that means usa is on my no-fly-list again Dec 26 21:03:58 Obamistan :) Dec 26 21:04:01 Milo: My wife is traveling to US soon enough, she will tell Dec 26 21:04:14 would be worried since they have the habbit of losing your luggages Dec 26 21:04:18 cehteh: I think the kernel knows how to throttle cpu if it gets too hot Dec 26 21:05:04 ShadowJK: would be new to me .. i only know x86 where the kernel can not do that but SM-Bios does Dec 26 21:05:21 while arm has no system management mode or? Dec 26 21:05:44 RST38h: ugh :( Dec 26 21:06:18 still allowed for domestic though right? (electronics in flight) Dec 26 21:06:34 No idea Dec 26 21:06:44 sp3000: youtube made for a quite unmerry christmas present :( Dec 26 21:06:54 So far it looks like TSA is making its own laws on the fly Dec 26 21:07:48 RST38h: there isnt a part of our government anymore that doesnt, and has been this way for quite some time Dec 26 21:09:31 rst: gov agenceies writew regulations Dec 26 21:09:47 roughly practices for how they intend to follow/enforce laws Dec 26 21:10:14 cehteh, yeah arm doesn't have smm Dec 26 21:10:19 if their actiohns are in violation of statutes, someone will sue, demanding complience Dec 26 21:10:34 s/hn/n/ Dec 26 21:10:35 timeless meant: if their actions are in violation of statutes, someone will sue, demanding complience Dec 26 21:10:50 timeless, oh hey, I was wondering if there was a magic conf option to make disk cache permanent in microb, seems to get emptied after each restart? Dec 26 21:11:11 shadow: um Dec 26 21:11:22 we don't enable disk cache by default Dec 26 21:11:35 so did you manually enable it? Dec 26 21:11:38 yes Dec 26 21:11:46 "The weapon's ammunition initially appeared to be human-like teeth. However, DNA testing of the "bullets" resulted in no match to any known species on Earth." Dec 26 21:12:08 gecko will eat your disk cache if it isn't safely shutdown Dec 26 21:12:08 RST38h, what's that about? Dec 26 21:12:15 e.g. because it crashed Dec 26 21:12:29 or because it was killed by its host Dec 26 21:12:55 Oh, well, I was just closing it from dashboard after visiting google maps, then reopened and checked about:cache to find everything at 0 Dec 26 21:12:56 in some versions, browser ui generally kills microb :( Dec 26 21:13:01 ah Dec 26 21:13:47 * timeless discovers this kosher chinese restaurant has a buffet :9 Dec 26 21:14:12 ShadowJK: http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-127 Dec 26 21:14:28 If I may I'd have a question about Maemo 5 about applications installation space? Dec 26 21:15:16 ? Dec 26 21:15:55 I happened to find out yesterday that I can "only" install in total of 1.5 Gb on my N900 so would this mean that once I reach that limit I can't install anymore applications? Dec 26 21:16:36 rantom, your device won't boot :p Dec 26 21:16:54 if rootfs get filled up, the device will get bricked Dec 26 21:17:02 Aha Dec 26 21:17:16 rantom: there's 256mb NAND and 2gb /opt Dec 26 21:17:24 you can increase it Dec 26 21:17:25 rantom: you can technically expand your /opt though Dec 26 21:18:00 How? I did try to do it yesterday but didn't find it from the phone Dec 26 21:18:11 there's no gui for it Dec 26 21:18:17 talk.maemo.org Dec 26 21:18:21 it's a hack Dec 26 21:18:40 rantom: how much space have you wasted on a desktop for app? Dec 26 21:18:55 Not much, megas (Mb's) Dec 26 21:19:07 Not that space would be a problem, I was just wondering Dec 26 21:19:20 in practice you'll probably fill the rootfs w/ apt packaging info before you fill /opt Dec 26 21:19:52 wow, happy me Dec 26 21:20:03 mt dinner cost more than the buffet Dec 26 21:20:12 so they billed for the buffet Dec 26 21:20:32 this would never happen in finland Dec 26 21:20:52 oh, and the food, service, and music were all good Dec 26 21:20:56 No, I think it wouldn't happen in here :p Dec 26 21:21:43 oops Dec 26 21:21:53 what's tip here in england? Dec 26 21:22:13 But yeah, thanks for the answer (if this would've been iPhone I'd just get "Now why would you want to do that?", heh) Dec 26 21:22:30 iPhone has no split Dec 26 21:23:00 in practice you eventually realize that too many apps on iPhone = harder to get to apps you actually use Dec 26 21:23:11 rantom, some people don't like to be told about these theoretical possibilities either. They think it makes the phone "complicated" :-) Dec 26 21:23:17 and in theory you start trashing the ones getting in your way Dec 26 21:24:13 from reading some people's iPhone studies, it seems that eventually happens Dec 26 21:24:16 Yeah. Well so far I only installed Piding, Recorder and OpenSSH Client and I'm good to go Dec 26 21:24:28 Pidgin* Dec 26 21:24:42 * GAN900 wishes Telepathy Haze would get to Extras. Dec 26 21:25:43 which is haze? Dec 26 21:26:17 Hmm...Looks like I am done for today Dec 26 21:27:23 A dose of DrWho and sleep. Dec 26 21:30:18 DR WHO SPECIAL FTW Dec 26 21:37:51 timeless, AIM, Yahoo, MSN, etc. Dec 26 21:38:32 is haze less evil than butterfly? Dec 26 21:41:09 who has ps3 controller paired? Dec 26 21:44:38 Hrm, should hands free get callerid info? Dec 26 21:46:48 is there some commandline way to query the battery status? Dec 26 21:50:02 lshal|grep battery Dec 26 21:58:27 GAN900: *sigh* Dec 26 21:58:32 i can't believe that guy responded Dec 26 21:58:47 it should be painfully clear to him that i read comments because they're in my email Dec 26 21:58:49 and i read my email Dec 26 21:59:09 * timeless_mbp goes to read spam Dec 26 21:59:14 (spam is happier than bugmail) Dec 26 22:00:06 and it's seasonal: "Amaka Alvin" » "Meet the coming Christmas with pleasure and let love conquer your heart with Viagra!‎ - Getting ready to celebrate Christmas don't forget to take care of your penis! Hurry up! http …" Dec 23 Dec 26 22:01:40 Bleep Dec 26 22:01:53 ooh, now some of my spam is more appropriate Dec 26 22:02:24 > "Prof Murat Yilmaztekin" "You have won £1,532.720.00GBP in the UK Electronics Award so contact uk.nl.2009@msn.com..." Dec 18 Dec 26 22:02:40 until now, i wouldn't have accepted GBP spam, but as i'm receiving GBP ... :) Dec 26 22:02:55 * timeless_mbp rescues one conversation from a spam bin Dec 26 22:03:11 i get very little Dec 26 22:03:19 a few per week Dec 26 22:03:41 his folder had 36 spamversations in a month + 1 false positive Dec 26 22:03:54 u know what would be useful work for cia Dec 26 22:03:54 s/h/th/ Dec 26 22:03:55 timeless_mbp meant: this folder had 36 spamversations in a month + 1 false positive Dec 26 22:04:36 they could have a PR victory of epic proportions :) Dec 26 22:04:42 * ManuelSE_ plays bass Dec 26 22:05:31 * timeless_mbp rotfl @ http://www.mozilla.com/img/tignish/plugincheck/webbadge/loading.png Dec 26 22:06:47 ShadowJK: thanks Dec 26 22:07:00 hunt the pixel is not fun in 2009 Dec 26 22:07:02 my other account gets at least 100 spamversations in a single day :( Dec 26 22:07:09 ow Dec 26 22:07:26 roughly christmas day Dec 26 22:07:37 can we arrnge app icons timeless? Dec 26 22:07:51 ManuelSE_: they're arranged iirc by datestamp Dec 26 22:08:00 so with some judicious datestamping you can Dec 26 22:08:00 ok touch ty Dec 26 22:08:07 actually Dec 26 22:08:12 for settings you can arrange them w/ a file Dec 26 22:08:14 hold on Dec 26 22:08:21 i actually did it Dec 26 22:08:24 and stuck it somewhere Dec 26 22:08:29 and then reflashed and i think i lost it :( Dec 26 22:08:37 for settings i dont care so much Dec 26 22:08:49 maybe i timestamp apps on launch somehow Dec 26 22:09:00 can you think of a way? Dec 26 22:09:33 look at /usr/share/applications/hildon-control-panel/apporder/applets.desktop Dec 26 22:09:39 is there a script that runs for each app launch? Dec 26 22:09:44 ok Dec 26 22:10:00 ty Dec 26 22:12:10 i do not see what file i must touch Dec 26 22:12:12 * timeless_mbp rotfl @ ovi.desktop Dec 26 22:12:25 #X-Osso-Service=xterm Dec 26 22:12:32 that's priceless Dec 26 22:14:30 hm i dont understand Dec 26 22:14:30 huh? wtf? Dec 26 22:15:16 it's in the .desktop file Dec 26 22:15:35 roughly it's "My first .desktop file" Dec 26 22:15:43 which is absolutely what a corporation should be shipping Dec 26 22:16:17 ty Dec 26 22:17:33 you know, nokia hired several intelligent debian people Dec 26 22:17:58 pwnguin: is that the setup for a funny punchline? Dec 26 22:18:07 like "but how many stupid debian people did they hire?" Dec 26 22:18:31 im just saying its odd for them to have screwups like a app manager that doesn't do dependencies Dec 26 22:18:47 what do you mean doesn't do dependencies? Dec 26 22:18:50 timeless_mbp: heh that is priceless Dec 26 22:19:05 or 'first .desktop file' syndrome Dec 26 22:19:26 to be fair, i suspect the ovi people have nothing to do w/ Maemo Dec 26 22:19:36 so it really is "My first .desktop file" Dec 26 22:19:40 timeless_mbp: from the ovi people I've talked to, I agree Dec 26 22:20:04 timeless_mbp: sometimes i install a program via the GUI and it gives na error, saying a dependency isnt installed Dec 26 22:20:16 pwnguin: hrm Dec 26 22:20:22 maybe the package has an error Dec 26 22:20:24 * timeless_mbp goes to look for the relevant message Dec 26 22:20:31 I've yet to be impressed in any way by ovi, including future features etc... Dec 26 22:20:39 did ovi store open? Dec 26 22:20:43 go1dfish: oh, ovi impresses me Dec 26 22:20:46 pwnguin: not for n900 Dec 26 22:20:55 impressively bad/lacking? Dec 26 22:20:57 psh Dec 26 22:21:38 "Can't add %s.\n" Dec 26 22:21:38 "Some required packages are missing." Dec 26 22:21:49 pwnguin: roughly something like that? Dec 26 22:21:49 about right Dec 26 22:21:57 yea Dec 26 22:22:09 that means that someone managed to push a package to a repo w/o pushing the relevant dependency Dec 26 22:22:14 it's not at all HAM's fault Dec 26 22:22:18 hmm Dec 26 22:22:26 it's a standard error, any repository manager will give it Dec 26 22:22:37 now, perhaps ham shouldn't show you packages for which dependencies are bad Dec 26 22:22:40 however that's expensive Dec 26 22:22:43 Like a package in extras depending on a package in sdk-tools or similar Dec 26 22:22:51 it means that for each package in the list, it'd have to do a lot of math Dec 26 22:22:52 pwnguin: HAM is jut another frontend to apt for the most part Dec 26 22:22:57 if it comes up again, i'll look harder, but i thought i fixed it by hand by installing the deps manually Dec 26 22:23:04 Or when there's a package in both sdk-tools and extras*, it kinda falls over Dec 26 22:23:36 the specific algorithm for resolving dependencies in ham is technically not identical to apt Dec 26 22:23:43 and in some cases is probably worse Dec 26 22:24:41 i accept it as a part of life. the core system is solid Dec 26 22:25:08 only see one broken package Dec 26 22:25:31 but that is a protest :) Dec 26 22:25:42 is there a process for pulling in a debian package to Extras w/o modification? Dec 26 22:25:56 ie should I change the maintainer line Dec 26 22:25:57 etc Dec 26 22:26:04 good question Dec 26 22:26:13 fetch and autobuild Dec 26 22:26:24 In Mer I created a special area for 'unmodified' Dec 26 22:26:30 you should rpobably use X--Original-Maintianer Dec 26 22:26:48 unless debian's removed the X Dec 26 22:26:52 it's harder when you don't make the rules up as you go along ;) Dec 26 22:27:00 needs to install to /opt not / too Dec 26 22:27:02 maintainer would be upstream unless patches made Dec 26 22:27:33 optification is also kind of important i'd say Dec 26 22:27:34 fetch and autobuild pls :) Dec 26 22:27:38 ohh Dec 26 22:27:42 i forgot Dec 26 22:27:50 ManuelSE_: yeah but for an unmodified package in Extras how do people know to moan at me to upgrade a new release? Dec 26 22:27:54 until someone gets unionFS working Dec 26 22:27:56 was thinking more f sdk tools!!! Dec 26 22:28:05 libs Dec 26 22:28:13 me too - good point pwnguin Dec 26 22:28:48 what to build Dec 26 22:28:50 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras is a bit quiet on policy Dec 26 22:28:56 syncevolution Dec 26 22:29:06 it has a dep trail... Dec 26 22:29:24 hehe Dec 26 22:29:33 it's not that bad actually Dec 26 22:29:33 some are too scary Dec 26 22:29:47 and autotools go boom Dec 26 22:29:51 yeah Dec 26 22:29:53 and then i cry Dec 26 22:30:38 in ubuntu we move the maintainer field to X-Original-Maintainer and tack on our own Dec 26 22:30:59 given I ought to optify I think that's a good call Dec 26 22:31:34 there's also some fields ive never nseen before Dec 26 22:32:17 pwnguin: what does a guy do for maemo if he repackages an ubuntu package which already used x-o-m? :) Dec 26 22:32:25 hah Dec 26 22:32:43 is there a rule against multiple x-o-m's? Dec 26 22:32:46 should we use newest debian or ubunhtu sources or what Dec 26 22:32:53 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras/Policy Dec 26 22:33:22 well, now anyway ;) Dec 26 22:33:31 heh Dec 26 22:33:47 i write my own preferred source there ok? Dec 26 22:33:50 oh, maybe ... http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras_repository_process_definition Dec 26 22:34:07 heh Dec 26 22:34:10 uhm .. charging is somehow broken .. i charging since 2 hrs .. for the last hour it stuck at 82% Dec 26 22:34:17 ManuelSE_: I was actually seriously starting to put something together Dec 26 22:34:26 replugged the charger and it instantly jumped to 95% Dec 26 22:34:31 ho for iit Dec 26 22:35:05 i sometimes find a better ubuntu version but i prefer debian Dec 26 22:35:07 cehteh: eh? Dec 26 22:35:13 where do you get 82%? Dec 26 22:35:13 lbt: apparently maemo has some fields like Maemo-Icon-26 Dec 26 22:35:30 pwnguin: yes... that's another funny one Dec 26 22:35:35 while sleep 30; do lshal | grep battery.*percent; done Dec 26 22:35:38 esp since the icon isn't 26 pixels :) Dec 26 22:36:27 timeless: maybe it steps in biggier increments, i figure that out now Dec 26 22:36:36 Maemo-Display-Name Dec 26 22:36:48 are the hashes debian standard? Dec 26 22:36:49 cehteh: um Dec 26 22:36:59 the battery can't tell you how much it has while it's charging Dec 26 22:37:07 so it's probably just telling you the last known value Dec 26 22:37:46 timeless: ok still i charge 2-3 times a day currently, ok still playing a lot with the device, but this is not fun Dec 26 22:38:12 pwnguin: hashes? Dec 26 22:38:19 timeless_mbp: MD5, SHA-1 Dec 26 22:38:21 etc Dec 26 22:38:26 http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/packaging-stable.html Dec 26 22:39:12 The charge level percentage gets adjusted for quite some time after charging too :) Dec 26 22:39:20 phone avtivated call forwarding again! Dec 26 22:39:26 rebooting to test Dec 26 22:41:43 watching voltage now Dec 26 22:42:12 ok this is not a joke Dec 26 22:42:34 phone activates call forwarding every boot Dec 26 22:42:43 ManuelSE: nsa? :) Dec 26 22:42:54 bug Dec 26 22:42:58 or pebcak Dec 26 22:43:17 Where to does it activate call forwarding? Dec 26 22:43:20 just some random number? Dec 26 22:45:18 bsod Dec 26 22:47:00 i think i prefer it as a tablet, with phone capability Dec 26 22:47:38 hello all. Dec 26 22:47:47 You know unless you deactivate a call forwarding it remains active across reboots? Dec 26 22:48:09 ShadowJK: since call forwarding is a network service Dec 26 22:48:10 timeless_mbp: if the battery can't tell how much it has while it's charging..... Dec 26 22:48:15 How does it know when it's fully charged? Dec 26 22:48:16 that should hardly be a surprise Dec 26 22:48:23 timeless_mbp, yes Dec 26 22:48:39 got a question about extras-testing. Dec 26 22:48:41 then n900 is incompat with mymnetwork Dec 26 22:49:05 go1dfish, Li-Ion charge algorithm is CC/CV. Constant Current until 4.2Volts is reached, Constant voltage until current tapers off to 10% of original current, or a simialr threshold. Then the battery is full Dec 26 22:49:09 will we get phone fixes in update Dec 26 22:49:11 go1dfish: i'm a software guy, and the battery charging stuff is afai 'm concerned black magic Dec 26 22:49:20 i cannot deactivate the forwarding Dec 26 22:49:37 timeless_mbp: heh yeah same here, never got to far with electrical stuff Dec 26 22:49:51 but it sounds like ShadowJK offered the explanation Dec 26 22:50:02 ShadowJK: current to the battery tapering off you mean? Dec 26 22:50:08 yes Dec 26 22:50:12 if a dependency of an is not optified, would it be right to vote-down the app? Dec 26 22:50:33 "of an app" Dec 26 22:50:50 archebyte: like any python derivative? Dec 26 22:51:04 archebyte: if enough people are voting it up that it looks like it will make it to extras anyway, I'd say yes Dec 26 22:51:04 no. specifically openttd Dec 26 22:51:28 openttd-opengfx takes 6mb of rootfs Dec 26 22:52:06 vote down then Dec 26 22:52:09 archebyte: as long as you explain why you're voting it down Dec 26 22:52:13 i think it's reasonable Dec 26 22:52:21 but if you don't comment, that's unhelpful :) Dec 26 22:52:27 Basically, and I'm speaking about N800 and N810 here, I haven't looked that closely at N900, the nokia charge metering system uses end-of-charge signal to reset the meter to the signaled battery capacity. It then deducts the meter with power use. The meter gets reset to something pessimistic (5mAh or 0) at low-battery voltage signal. If you take it off charger before empty, it adds to the meter integrated charge current minus device consumption for an e Dec 26 22:52:27 yes Dec 26 22:52:33 stimate. Dec 26 22:52:49 cool. that's my opinion too. then its the maintainers job to deal with the maintainer of the dependency.. Dec 26 22:53:17 ShadowJK: given that no one likes change, and nokia isn't much different Dec 26 22:53:27 it seems reasonable to assume that things haven't changed drastically :) Dec 26 22:53:34 Yes I'd agree :) Dec 26 22:53:36 ShadowJK: cool, had no idea it was so complicated, 'black magic' works heh Dec 26 22:53:39 especially given that we actually used the n810s to charge the n900 batteries :) Dec 26 22:54:09 thanks timeless_mbp , goldfish. Dec 26 22:54:16 go1dfish: oh, what ShadowJK describes would fall into my "simple" bucket Dec 26 22:54:17 The N810 should be able to charge most Li-Ion batteries of 600mAh to ~5000mAh :) Dec 26 22:54:17 timeless_mbp: heh yeah we've done that to, the female usb in our loaner Dec 26 22:54:29 sure there's a bit of math, but.. Dec 26 22:54:37 i'm sure the actual impl is slightly more complicated :) Dec 26 22:54:49 (including some temperature checks) Dec 26 22:54:54 yeah it's not that bad, I just thought it was easier to get an idea of the current capacity Dec 26 22:55:16 timeless, I wouldn't be so optimistic. The N8x0 bme falls over when the battery gets old enough Dec 26 22:55:32 ShadowJK: eww Dec 26 22:55:38 bug filed? Dec 26 22:55:41 I guess falling over and causing device reset is better than explosion Dec 26 22:55:50 Yeah there's a bug report somewhere Dec 26 22:55:51 ayup Dec 26 22:55:57 my battery knowledge is all from /proc/acpi/... battery stuff heh, there is no way to read the current charge/discharge current on the n900 is there? Dec 26 22:56:17 I added my observations as a comment. The reporter bought a new battery and his N810 stopped rebooting when charger attached. Dec 26 22:56:32 go1dfish, no public method right now Dec 26 22:57:08 Screenshots of preproduction firmware showed Nokia Energy profiler existed. It does not exist on production firmware. It is not available for download. There were mails to maemo-developers requesting that it should be made available for download. Dec 26 22:57:48 err meant to say earlier the femable usb in our loaner broke, so wont charge, I stopped midsentence heh Dec 26 22:58:06 go1dfish: i just read the voltage .. not very accurate because highly non-linear Dec 26 22:58:09 ShadowJK: it's technically a package from memory Dec 26 22:58:22 i'm not quite sure what its status is Dec 26 22:58:26 but it should be possible to mab that in some useable way to the charge Dec 26 22:58:30 it's possible there's some interesting IPR involved Dec 26 22:58:43 timeless, apparently powertop is missing on "american firmware", and it's not available for download either Dec 26 22:58:46 (yes, ipr is stupid) Dec 26 22:59:01 ShadowJK: oh wow Dec 26 22:59:14 i wonder if i want to know the reason why Dec 26 22:59:17 i suspect i don't Dec 26 22:59:21 oh speaking of which Dec 26 22:59:31 iirc the british firmware was supposed to be up, did you see it? Dec 26 22:59:32 timeless, amusingly we know enough how to replicate the core functionality of NEP on N8x0, and if it hasn't changed much for N900... Dec 26 22:59:33 I was just hoping for a value in /proc or dbus or something Dec 26 22:59:54 timeless_mbp: I saw it up today Dec 26 22:59:58 1.0 that is Dec 26 22:59:59 :) Dec 26 23:00:12 i'm not sure who drives the pushes to that thing Dec 26 23:00:31 Frankly, I hate the idea of localized firmware. It's some sort of symbian-land evilness that segregated the world and operated under the belief that a user always lives in one and only one country, and speaks one and only one language, ever... Dec 26 23:00:34 it seems like they need a longer checklist for the instructions for pushing to it Dec 26 23:00:56 healthy attitude shadowjk Dec 26 23:01:05 ShadowJK: yeah, i was absolutely shocked to discover a UK variant existed Dec 26 23:01:14 and then i spent hours trying to find it Dec 26 23:01:25 i eventually did find the instructions for how to use the system that manages them Dec 26 23:01:32 All these resources wasted on fragmentation Dec 26 23:01:34 but the instructions didn't tell me where the system was :o Dec 26 23:01:43 ShadowJK: it's "nokia value" :) Dec 26 23:01:46 ShadowJK: That's one nice thing you can say about the iPhone... it's got good language support. Dec 26 23:01:57 GiantTalkingCow: um Dec 26 23:02:03 I think that's a "lol" Dec 26 23:02:06 maemo is about bringing openness to portables Dec 26 23:02:11 GiantTalkingCow: i'd actually say "no" Dec 26 23:02:16 as I own an iPhone Dec 26 23:02:23 s/Phone/Pod/ Dec 26 23:02:23 timeless_mbp meant: as I own an iPod Dec 26 23:02:31 it's registered against a Finnish iTunes account Dec 26 23:02:41 which means when i want to upgrade my iPod to new firmware Dec 26 23:02:52 they force me to accept a *Finnish* license agreement Dec 26 23:02:59 ouch Dec 26 23:03:03 and the ui can be a mix of English, Finnish and Russian Dec 26 23:03:08 lol Dec 26 23:03:12 Hmmm, I've had a difference experience. Perhaps it's changed. Dec 26 23:03:13 if your computer happens to be Windows-Russian Dec 26 23:03:25 GiantTalkingCow: this was a couple of months ago Dec 26 23:03:29 Most of my customers have machines in mixes of english, swedish and finnish... Dec 26 23:03:34 rik falkvinge is seeming more like a prophet Dec 26 23:03:44 since I'm in the UK, i'm supposed to send a letter to some office here demanding an English translation Dec 26 23:03:58 anyway, bottom line: Dec 26 23:04:05 No Apple does not get Localization entirely right Dec 26 23:04:15 and Yes Apple screws up in somewhat similar places to Nokia Dec 26 23:04:17 hehe Dec 26 23:04:22 namely: anywhere there's a Lawyer involved Dec 26 23:04:33 good to know Dec 26 23:04:34 timeless_mbp, btw, those translated license agreements often state something like "This is not a legally binding translation, to see what you're actually agreeing to, read the english license agreement".. and then no way to actually get the english version... Dec 26 23:04:46 ... Dec 26 23:05:02 ShadowJK: i can't say i'm shocked Dec 26 23:05:08 but having yelled at apple on this one Dec 26 23:05:15 somekids should build an underworld like crawler Dec 26 23:05:18 it seems clear that it really is a Finnish only agreement Dec 26 23:05:22 bound to Finnish legal code Dec 26 23:05:32 ah Dec 26 23:05:44 and as such if i demand an English version, they'll actually have to get lawyers to translate it and send me a version Dec 26 23:05:51 and yes, it seems stupid Dec 26 23:05:56 but, i can almost understand it Dec 26 23:06:04 since each stupid European country has its own stupid laws Dec 26 23:06:09 new app coming soon :) http://linuxbox2.free.fr/screenshot08.png Dec 26 23:06:10 covering a handful of stupid people Dec 26 23:06:16 Oh well, you could demand it in swedish if you want to annoy them, they might even have an obligation to do that Dec 26 23:06:30 ShadowJK: they definitely have an obligation Dec 26 23:06:36 and afaict there's no way from the ui to get that Dec 26 23:06:44 i should find someone to do that Dec 26 23:06:51 they have dual license laws in finland? Dec 26 23:06:57 err Dec 26 23:06:58 language Dec 26 23:07:01 two official languages Dec 26 23:07:09 but it's unclear exactly how that works Dec 26 23:07:14 ah, didn't realize that Dec 26 23:07:20 it definitely applies to any government document or action Dec 26 23:07:29 but private industry, i'm not sure about Dec 26 23:07:51 BabelO: um Dec 26 23:07:55 I think you need to provide instructions in both languages Dec 26 23:08:04 timeless_mbp: what hum ? Dec 26 23:08:06 is 'mer., 23 d'ec. 2009' really how your date should be written? Dec 26 23:08:13 timeless_mbp: you diid not like my design ? Dec 26 23:08:28 Additionally with government <-> people interaction there are some fuzzy provisions for Sapmí speakers too Dec 26 23:08:30 no it is for the widget on the right Dec 26 23:08:41 where's reggie? Dec 26 23:08:42 Seriously Dec 26 23:08:43 BabelO: the text to the right is cut off Dec 26 23:08:57 'tags' and 'Message', you don't have enough space for the tail of the 'g' Dec 26 23:09:02 that's totally uncool, MUST FIX Dec 26 23:09:35 timeless_mbp: yes i see it is first shot, app is working but i have some issue with Qt and SVG Dec 26 23:10:19 and please make the decimals stop at 2 digits Dec 26 23:10:21 BabelO: oh, yeah, just trying to offer early constructive criticism Dec 26 23:10:42 whats nokia messaging? Dec 26 23:10:44 crashanddie: it is official app dataplan monitor, not mine Dec 26 23:10:54 also, either completely localise the app to french, or make the date in english, not both Dec 26 23:11:04 any updates a new N900 user should do? Dec 26 23:11:14 preparing for my device arrival on monday Dec 26 23:11:20 K`: rebuild the kernel and reboot Dec 26 23:11:27 timeless_mbp: thanks, but i already now my problems, just want to show my app for FM TX with your radio car system Dec 26 23:11:36 crashanddie I wasn't even aware there were onboard dev tools Dec 26 23:11:38 K`: also you might want to clean up all the mess that's left from previous tools Dec 26 23:11:40 BabelO: hide things you aren't demoing when you take screenshots \:) Dec 26 23:11:43 im downloading the sdk and sandbox now Dec 26 23:12:00 oh, you were talking about the device, I was talking about the owner Dec 26 23:12:28 I must be daft, Im not following, was that a joke? Dec 26 23:12:35 indeed Dec 26 23:12:46 K`: I think it was a joke Dec 26 23:12:48 K`: the first service release hasn't been generally released yet Dec 26 23:12:48 people are testing it now.. Dec 26 23:13:12 my approach.... Dec 26 23:13:21 I fooled around with my device with wreckless abandon... Dec 26 23:13:24 ok then, Ill just play it by ear Dec 26 23:13:30 with the expectation I would completely reflash after first firmware update Dec 26 23:13:43 K`: what timeless is talking about is that there is a new software release coming out soon (filling in the gaps) Dec 26 23:13:45 yea, go1dfish I think thats probably the best plan at this point Dec 26 23:13:47 and set up my device for real after that, with the knowledge gained from previous fooling around Dec 26 23:14:05 and even with that approach, I haven't had to reflash yet and things still seem to be working out well Dec 26 23:14:27 I'd say the most common reason for reflashing is filling up the root partition, if you're careful with that, you'll be fine Dec 26 23:15:22 K`: you can actually install tools if you want, but i really wouldn't advise building a kernel on it :) Dec 26 23:15:25 hopefully :) Dec 26 23:15:27 i make no promises Dec 26 23:15:29 you should probably enable extras or extras testing Dec 26 23:15:31 and play w/ apps from package manager Dec 26 23:15:32 :) Dec 26 23:15:33 if you're using your device in English and don't mind unofficial strings, i have some Dec 26 23:16:10 is there an onboard build enviroment available? Dec 26 23:16:37 K`: I recommend easy-debian-chroot Dec 26 23:16:48 oh feck off Dec 26 23:16:55 you can get your c/c++ kicks there, I haven't tried setting up the sdk in there though Dec 26 23:16:57 K`: don't listen to him Dec 26 23:17:09 lol Dec 26 23:17:15 K`: you can install gcc without any issues on Maemo Dec 26 23:17:27 crashanddie: whats wrong with a chroot?, I like having the separation myself Dec 26 23:17:46 ok, my last question before I go back to the forums, what about SDL Dec 26 23:18:03 SDL is quite slow -- don't know about the OpenGL implementation Dec 26 23:18:18 just trying to see what my options are for porting Dec 26 23:18:18 I've used it on the N810, and depending on what you're trying to do, it's OK Dec 26 23:18:40 there's a video of some text being displayed in a cloud fashion on your tubes Dec 26 23:19:13 so keeping in mind that's the N810, and the N900 is faster, plus that we could see SDL's GL implementation soon Dec 26 23:20:08 SDL GL probably wont be any faster at pushing pixels? Dec 26 23:20:27 no but the drawing will be Dec 26 23:20:36 hi Dec 26 23:20:40 eh? Dec 26 23:20:46 and display as well Dec 26 23:20:53 * ShadowJK doubts Dec 26 23:21:01 plus you can connect to a 3D phosphor display Dec 26 23:21:07 over 18G Dec 26 23:21:14 SDL GL FOREVAAAAA Dec 26 23:21:32 how do i make my tablet update the list of multimedia such as music,pictures? Dec 26 23:21:32 hi LuciusMare_n900 Dec 26 23:21:52 crashanddie: what,3D display? Dec 26 23:21:59 when porting this old dos game to .. everything, "normal" SDL was faster than GL SDL, but pushing pixels through SDL to Xvideo was fastest :-) Dec 26 23:22:04 and that was on a normal PC Dec 26 23:22:30 LuciusMare_n900: it's supposed to update automatically... Dec 26 23:22:43 LuciusMare_n900: the one me and my buddy spoc invented over the weekend Dec 26 23:22:44 well,it doesnt Dec 26 23:23:10 crashanddie: you invented a 3d display? Dec 26 23:23:16 mine updates automatically... slowly :) Dec 26 23:23:25 yes Dec 26 23:23:28 same Dec 26 23:23:31 ShadowJK: It's 84 million lego bricks isn't it. Dec 26 23:23:42 its slow,but it doesnt update at all,now Dec 26 23:23:49 gles scorced 3d ? Dec 26 23:24:07 Hey, crashanddie. Dec 26 23:24:08 LuciusMare_n900: yup, and then mckoy came round and he enabled it to cure cancer for everyone of those who look at it Dec 26 23:24:14 Have a good holiday? Dec 26 23:24:21 * lcuk spins crashanddie's chair round a few times to disorient him, then nicks his drink Dec 26 23:24:24 GAN900: going pretty good, how about yourself? Dec 26 23:24:32 NOOOOOO not my drinks! Dec 26 23:24:36 It's baileys + milk! Dec 26 23:24:49 * lcuk gives it back and gets a beer instead Dec 26 23:24:56 snark snark snark Dec 26 23:24:58 :( any new 3d games for maemo? Dec 26 23:25:09 how's it going lcuk ? Dec 26 23:25:12 hah Dec 26 23:25:21 crashanddie, revolutionary Dec 26 23:25:26 so,can i run a manual update? Dec 26 23:25:28 that well? Dec 26 23:25:55 indeed :) im quite pleased with something working as well as i had hoped Dec 26 23:26:03 vid vid vid Dec 26 23:26:13 huh Dec 26 23:26:27 i think i found the problem Dec 26 23:26:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z51-vCa0_Q :p Dec 26 23:26:46 /home/user # tracker-status Dec 26 23:26:47 Segmentation fault Dec 26 23:26:54 lcuk: either you're setting your hopes too high, or you're disappointed, but last time I heard you talk things were "Outstanding" Dec 26 23:26:58 :/ Dec 26 23:27:35 crashanddie: yeah chroot doesn't work to well for sdl/gl stuff Dec 26 23:27:49 but it's been quite useful for other stuff Dec 26 23:28:06 and is a good first pass at determining: 'is it worth trying to build this app for freemantle' Dec 26 23:28:28 crashanddie, not really, i just pondered how well it would work for a while and it actually looks and works better than i thought it could. Dec 26 23:28:35 crashanddie, been down with a nasty cold for the past few days but otherwise good. Dec 26 23:28:41 for instance, I think with some work, it would be quite possible to get a usable audacity on freemantle Dec 26 23:29:11 GAN900: not good, get well soon Dec 26 23:29:19 lcuk: that's more like it Dec 26 23:29:34 where the hell is lardman, isn't he coding over the holidays? Lazy sod Dec 26 23:29:50 hm Dec 26 23:30:02 my tracker seems to be full of segfaults Dec 26 23:30:04 GAN900: I would like to repitch my idea that we need someone with the ability to erase tmo users out of existence Dec 26 23:30:20 /home/user # /usr/lib/tracker/trackerd Dec 26 23:30:20 Initializing trackerd... Dec 26 23:30:20 Creating config directory:'/root/.config/tracker' Dec 26 23:30:20 Writing default configuration to file:'/root/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg' Dec 26 23:30:20 Segmentation fault Dec 26 23:30:30 LuciusMare_n900: please don't paste into the channel Dec 26 23:31:06 LuciusMare_n900: why are you running as root? Dec 26 23:31:09 blah Dec 26 23:31:12 Should trackerd be running as root/ Dec 26 23:31:13 ? Dec 26 23:31:16 sorry Dec 26 23:31:18 busybox has unzip in it? :) Dec 26 23:31:18 crashanddie, guess we just need to give lardman a mandate. :D Dec 26 23:31:27 not sure Dec 26 23:31:33 he's never here? Dec 26 23:31:34 never saw that before Dec 26 23:31:53 but still gives the segfault Dec 26 23:31:57 LuciusMare_n900: that was a rhetorical question Dec 26 23:32:10 crashanddie, and maybe some money. ;) Dec 26 23:32:34 why does he need money for? Dec 26 23:32:50 To be here more often. ;) Dec 26 23:32:52 i know Dec 26 23:33:49 I tried that, didn't work, he still goes back to his wife Dec 26 23:34:07 lol Dec 26 23:34:41 Macer: i don't think so Dec 26 23:34:45 i install zip/unzip from a repo Dec 26 23:34:58 LuciusMare_n900: no, you didn't. If you knew, you wouldn't have answered. Either you don't know the meaning of rhetorical, or you can't spot it. Either way is fine, however trying to convince us you know what I'm talking about only confirms you're an idiot Dec 26 23:35:30 we all know i am an idiot Dec 26 23:35:44 so there is nothing to confirm Dec 26 23:35:59 now, back to your problem, did you install anything specific? When did you notice this behaviour? Dec 26 23:36:07 no Dec 26 23:36:20 actually Dec 26 23:36:25 yes,ogg support Dec 26 23:37:00 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34538170/ns/travel-tips/ is cute Dec 26 23:37:20 i was playing my .flacs when it kept trying to index,i always stopped it,i wanted it to do it later Dec 26 23:37:48 now,no matter what i do,it does not seem to try to index Dec 26 23:38:19 i may also mention i rebooted Dec 26 23:39:02 anyone tried exult on the N900 Dec 26 23:39:05 GAN900, lcuk: buy the book "A year in the Merde" by Stephen Clarke. Represents fairly well what I've been going through Dec 26 23:39:46 lol Dec 26 23:40:56 hm Dec 26 23:41:10 27 pro 2009, 00:39:40: Tracker-Critical **: Error executing stored procedure 'GetStats': no such table: Services Dec 26 23:42:16 looks like you killed the database Dec 26 23:42:52 i am a murderer Dec 26 23:42:57 but how? Dec 26 23:43:06 i dont remember doing so Dec 26 23:45:00 by killing tracker a few times Dec 26 23:45:20 heh Dec 26 23:45:31 i, sadly remember doing this Dec 26 23:45:57 so,how to recover? Dec 26 23:47:29 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/26/AR2009122601382.html?hpid=moreheadlines heh Dec 26 23:48:15 oh no Dec 26 23:48:24 will i need to reflash? Dec 26 23:48:47 timeless_mbp: thats almost like our finnish metro tunnel Dec 26 23:48:51 flooded by broken pipe Dec 26 23:49:06 Ceron: you think it'll take months before it reopens? :) Dec 26 23:49:14 yeh Dec 26 23:49:21 3 months Dec 26 23:49:22 somehow i doubt it Dec 26 23:49:49 crashanddie Dec 26 23:50:00 airports in the states aren't as stupid as finnish metro stations... Dec 26 23:50:36 There's some piece of electronics making weird peeping noises in the room and I don't have a clue where it is. Dec 26 23:50:48 LuciusMare_n900: please don't highlight people without a purpose Dec 26 23:50:54 GAN900, unplug your nokia chargers Dec 26 23:51:04 i have a purpose Dec 26 23:51:19 we were in the middle of a debate Dec 26 23:51:19 ShadowJK, none in here Dec 26 23:52:10 crashanddie: please? Dec 26 23:53:04 N900s touchscreen reports pressure levels? Dec 26 23:53:22 LuciusMare_n900: I don't think we were in the middle of a debate. I told you you were an idiot, and argued that, your reply was to admit it. In other words, I won the debate. End of story. Dec 26 23:53:44 i dont mean this debate Dec 26 23:54:01 crashanddie: i mean the "you killed a database" Dec 26 23:54:15 how to recover it? Dec 26 23:54:46 aduno Dec 26 23:54:57 :( Dec 26 23:55:14 you appeared you do Dec 26 23:55:14 oh but look Dec 26 23:55:21 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126179017496705483.html Dec 26 23:55:28 just googling: "maemo reset tracker database" gave me a link! Dec 26 23:55:42 LuciusMare_n900: The tracker database can be reset by opening up "X Terminal" and typing "tracker-processes -r", then hitting enter. Dec 26 23:55:50 LuciusMare_n900: http://wiki.maemo.org/Media_Player_Album_Art Dec 26 23:56:47 or you could also use tracker-processes --hard-reset Dec 26 23:56:53 again, from that same google search Dec 26 23:56:59 hm Dec 26 23:57:15 now please gtfo and use google, trust me, at this point, he really is your best and only friend Dec 26 23:57:19 thats the problem, i didnt get need to reset it... Dec 26 23:57:26 i know Dec 26 23:57:37 i just donw know what to search Dec 26 23:57:51 i searched tracker maemo broken database Dec 26 23:58:32 LuciusMare_n900, http://tinyurl.com/y9z8vqd Dec 26 23:58:44 i knew that url was lmgtfy Dec 26 23:58:52 :p Dec 26 23:59:09 i know google Dec 26 23:59:17 I could've bit.ly'd it, but I just cba Dec 26 23:59:21 i just dont know what to search Dec 26 23:59:30 .... Dec 26 23:59:40 LuciusMare_n900: we told you twice what to search Dec 27 00:00:27 hah, went to see Avatar today. saw it with 6000 votes @ imdb with 7.x.. now 5 hours later its 70 votes and 8.8 and #24 on to 100 Dec 27 00:00:42 haha Dec 27 00:00:56 red, so how was it? Dec 27 00:01:02 yes Dec 27 00:01:09 but dont spoil... Dec 27 00:01:15 ... Dec 27 00:01:37 o,yay Dec 27 00:01:51 it seems to be working Dec 27 00:02:29 now,only to figure out how to run a command without having to have an open terminal... :/ Dec 27 00:02:29 red, it's too bad the story was so lame Dec 27 00:03:33 hm Dec 27 00:03:42 and the action scenes? Dec 27 00:04:14 GAN900: depends what u like Dec 27 00:04:31 red: they bad. we good. fight. WOOOHOOOO, good win. Dec 27 00:04:31 Excellent visuals, excellent action, weak story Dec 27 00:04:34 and what you expect aswell i guess Dec 27 00:04:36 CGI was flawless Dec 27 00:04:43 crashanddie, exactly Dec 27 00:04:50 hands down best CGI I've seen Dec 27 00:04:56 GAN900: and I didn't even see the movie ;) Dec 27 00:05:00 also first movie I went to see as 3D so was quite surprised Dec 27 00:05:03 red, it's FernGully + Surrogates Dec 27 00:05:15 anyway Dec 27 00:05:38 I myself liked the story too, but I guess I'm sort of a romantic in the end - that was the interetsing plot part for me and not the war Dec 27 00:05:55 and my gf was in tears in the ending so I didnt need to ask how she liked it Dec 27 00:05:56 It needed a more mature morality Dec 27 00:06:16 best movie I saw this year, but I know alot of people who will dislike it Dec 27 00:06:24 It's at about 11-years-old right now. Dec 27 00:06:25 but well, after 9 terminator incarnations, you can't blame james cameron for going with good vs evil again... Oh hang on... YES YOU CAN! Dec 27 00:06:26 will be one of those films that divide people quite clearly Dec 27 00:06:56 crashanddie, lacked the innovation of Alien/Aliens, too. Dec 27 00:07:11 hm Dec 27 00:07:20 Aliens is one of my fav movies Dec 27 00:07:23 :> Dec 27 00:07:29 i guess it should be fun Dec 27 00:07:56 It was fun Dec 27 00:08:02 brainwashing blockbuster stupidity but i expect myself to be amused Dec 27 00:08:10 Didn't drag at all for being 2.5+ hours long Dec 27 00:08:30 I attempt to avoid marketing and never watch trailers Dec 27 00:08:45 red: what movie didn't divide people clearly? Harry Potter? Benjamin Button? Star Trek? You always have those who like it and those who don't. It's not one of "those movies", it's "a movie". Yeah, it looks awesome, yada yada yada, but in 10 years we'll just go: "Meh, at least the kids enjoy it", and everyone will react like we talk about Matrix now: it was awesome then, but a bit shameful now to still be into it Dec 27 00:08:46 and if not,still better than the twilight i had to watch today...ack Dec 27 00:08:49 Just didn't have any of the grit or grayness of Dark Knight Dec 27 00:08:51 That way I have less expectations when I see film Dec 27 00:09:08 Which was unfortunate, since it could've taken it into the stratosphere Dec 27 00:09:31 wait Dec 27 00:09:40 red: sorry, my bad, didn't mean to flame like that. Hang on, GAN900, pass me that vial of unobtainium Dec 27 00:09:42 i still like Matrix :( Dec 27 00:10:02 Indeed, the Matrix is still pretty awesome Dec 27 00:10:07 crashanddie: I actually just watched the trilogy again month ago (the 2nd/3rd part I only really enjoy the mr. smith fights). But I guess it has alot to do with the love and interest for CGI I have Dec 27 00:10:26 CGI does not a timeless movie make Dec 27 00:10:38 Thats arguable :) Dec 27 00:10:45 Not really Dec 27 00:11:00 For my eyes it's art. Art is eternal :) Dec 27 00:11:12 red: I'd enjoy a TOS Star Trek episode 10 times more now nearly half a century after their original airing than any 10 year old movie. Dec 27 00:11:28 Damn, I still get shivers seeing some good C64 art even though time has passed it's nature Dec 27 00:11:34 So Godzilla must be one of the greatest movies ever made, right? Dec 27 00:11:50 when we're in debate of cgi...anybody saw these final fantasy movies? Dec 27 00:11:52 Nahh, didn't really fancy it Dec 27 00:12:03 LuciusMare_n900: got both in my DVD collection Dec 27 00:12:34 hm Dec 27 00:13:01 i personally like more...the newer one Dec 27 00:13:03 red: from a "spectacularity" standpoint. CGIs don't age well. Yes, they still make you kneel in awe because they are so amazing *for the time*, however they still look shit. TOS Star Trek on the other hand will never suffer that, because there's NO CGI. They let it up to your imagination -- and that, just like a book or theatre is something CGI will never be able to give you. Dec 27 00:13:08 with the phantoms Dec 27 00:13:27 Dec 27 00:13:38 advent children was just crap,i think Dec 27 00:13:43 red: No, I swear, I'm quite a nice person in real life Dec 27 00:13:44 the first pilot was good Dec 27 00:14:43 I enjoy books too, but for whole lot different reasons than stunnign visual arts. Imagination is a strong thing and I'ev dreamt about thinks I've read atleast 10 times more often than things I've watched on big screen. What it boils down to me is that I and couple of friends are and have for a long time been into computer visual arts. Guess we appreciate even those old things more than most ever will :P Dec 27 00:14:56 You guys heard about the self-proclamed al-qaida terrorist who lit a firecracker on a domestic flight in the US? Dec 27 00:15:06 I love how they call it a "explosive device" Dec 27 00:15:26 I still watch Babylon 5 and think how cool it was when it first aired to see that kinda animation (and I don't really forget the effect it had me on first view) Dec 27 00:15:48 He just wanted to celebrate christmas, then when he got tackled, just went: "Oh well, I'm a muslim and have a beard and turban, I'm fucked anyway, VIVA AL KADA!!!" Dec 27 00:16:06 It looks like shit compared to today ofourse, but I'll toss one more thing at you crashanddie before I gtg for a minute: Dec 27 00:16:27 going to watch top gear in a minute anyway (which looks superb in HD, if I may say) Dec 27 00:17:08 Like I said, I don't know if it was because it was the first 3D movie I saw, or that the CGI really was that spectacular. I haven't gotten that "little kid awed" sensation in years, and tonight I had it - and it would take someone very close to me dying to drop my spirit down from the glow it's experiencing at the moment. :) Dec 27 00:17:22 red im just upto middle of series 4 again :) b5 is an awe inspiring story Dec 27 00:17:38 they couldv done it in claymation and it wouldv worked Dec 27 00:17:48 lol Dec 27 00:17:58 so I used the word "awe" and suddenly everyone goes for it? Dec 27 00:18:03 :P Dec 27 00:18:05 avatar reanimated.enjoy the pureness of stopmotion Dec 27 00:18:09 claybylon 5 Dec 27 00:18:24 thats the word that pops into mind when I have my jaw open :) Dec 27 00:18:40 Or well I got a little bit of that sensation seeing that movie I don't even remember the name of.. the one with the odd aliens floating in africa.. district 9 yeah Dec 27 00:18:50 anyway, the part where the guy goes into the mech warrior and starts blasting Dec 27 00:18:50 * GAN900 still wishes Farscape hadn't been cancelled Dec 27 00:19:00 15 million tons of spinning plastercine... Dec 27 00:19:02 for a little moment I felt like I was 12 yo again Dec 27 00:19:05 GAN900: just watch doctor who Dec 27 00:19:10 lcuk: did you watch doctor who last night? Dec 27 00:19:12 GAN900: amen, great show Dec 27 00:19:15 what pops into my mind with jaw open is often some poor fly Dec 27 00:19:17 shush Dec 27 00:19:20 not yet Dec 27 00:19:38 crashanddie, do, not Farscape. :P Dec 27 00:19:45 hoping to sit down this week and get some time properly Dec 27 00:19:48 atleast farscape had a chance to close with peacekeeper wars Dec 27 00:19:49 damn, looks like I'm gonna enter morality paradox now :) Dec 27 00:19:50 doctor who must be savoured Dec 27 00:20:05 https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~chanson9/tutorials/shark/jawsSample.jpg Dec 27 00:20:08 lcuk: laptop running in London, PS3 in the South of France with traffic proxied through London :P -- BBC iPlayer in HD :P Dec 27 00:20:33 lcuk: shock change. New Doctor is Ali G. Dec 27 00:20:42 anyway, I don't care if someone regards my movie taste shitty. It's what I like and my life is too short to worry bout shit like that. Arguing is fun though, but no time for more today :) Dec 27 00:20:46 gn Dec 27 00:20:47 iplayer is quite low bandwidth isnt it? Dec 27 00:20:56 red: take care Dec 27 00:20:58 lcuk: depends Dec 27 00:21:01 Good part of me wants to help with Miniature, and evil doesn't Dec 27 00:21:31 lcuk: there are 100k to 1.5m or so streams. Dec 27 00:21:34 lcuk: I'm getting 720p here Dec 27 00:21:58 get_iplayer ++ Dec 27 00:22:15 wazd_, why dont you have a go at making and directing a project yourself? rather than taking on others etc, is there an app concept where you could put your best in and win over developers to make it for you? Dec 27 00:22:48 wazd_: translation: lcuk wants you to work with him Dec 27 00:22:54 use all your fancy pants flash stuff to show us exciting concept for something cool Dec 27 00:23:19 wazd_: translation: I need you to pimp my interface Dec 27 00:23:41 lcuk: I'm a bad administrator Dec 27 00:23:57 lcuk: translation: I can't be bothered working on something after the initial motivation has gone Dec 27 00:24:03 lcuk: maybe I can organize a bunch of designers, but that's all :) Dec 27 00:24:35 lcuk: translation: Really I have a bunch of russian kids doing my designing stuff, and I take the credit Dec 27 00:24:50 crashanddie: oh, now you got me :D Dec 27 00:24:58 lol seb i was just gonna yell at you for wrong translations, but that one made me laff Dec 27 00:25:12 :) Dec 27 00:25:47 maybe good part will win this time again Dec 27 00:25:56 anyway, i'm out, take care people Dec 27 00:26:03 gn Dec 27 00:26:06 crashanddie: cya Dec 27 00:26:58 GAN900: Don't put the sick in the washing machine Dec 27 00:27:15 lcuk: As for the app, I can't even find devs to work on XChat :D Dec 27 00:27:20 wazd, so you are comfortable reshaping apps, really the best way to shape in your image is to start from a low level Dec 27 00:27:24 no1 wants to touch xchat Dec 27 00:27:36 the code has solidified Dec 27 00:27:48 and heavily multiplatform and difficult to mess with Dec 27 00:27:58 the original developer isnt on hand so everything is a raid Dec 27 00:28:25 look at this one "simple" bug with crashing when you save preferences Dec 27 00:28:27 lcuk: well, amybe develop standalone IRC client, not XChat? Dec 27 00:28:45 of course Dec 27 00:29:01 not seeing that much wrong with xchat Dec 27 00:29:02 if someone is developing an irc client for the device Dec 27 00:29:06 im not either Dec 27 00:29:25 * lcuk is as it happens developing an irc client for maemo :) Dec 27 00:29:45 but yes old clients can be crufty Dec 27 00:29:51 http://liqbase.net/liq.20091201_191242._maemo.scr.png Dec 27 00:30:33 http://liqbase.net/liq.20091201_141600._maemo.scr.png Dec 27 00:31:31 too shiny. :) Dec 27 00:31:37 well, I guess it's not that hard to make IRC client then :) Dec 27 00:31:54 its hard to make one with real improvements Dec 27 00:32:10 any links and photos and sketches are put inline as thumbnails Dec 27 00:32:18 the real features I want are not deviceside Dec 27 00:32:30 and i want to be sketching there too Dec 27 00:32:53 as in good proxy support Dec 27 00:33:21 well from a client perspective it shouldnt know its behind a proxy should it Dec 27 00:33:35 It has to Dec 27 00:33:41 to work right Dec 27 00:34:12 assuming noncontinuous net. Dec 27 00:35:28 lcuk: And the last reason I don't want to develop new apps cause it's kinda stupid to develop an app for the platform you can't even properly check out Dec 27 00:35:56 are there timeshared n900s? Dec 27 00:35:59 indeed :) how on earth did i manage to develop liqbase to run so well on the n900 when for months i didnt have one Dec 27 00:36:20 because you didn't have one Dec 27 00:36:28 lcuk: oh, cmon Dec 27 00:36:28 it didnt stop me Dec 27 00:36:53 lcuk: for how much months? one? :D Dec 27 00:36:59 actually no Dec 27 00:37:04 for quite a bit longer Dec 27 00:37:14 lcuk: you got an early proto Dec 27 00:37:21 lcuk: nufsaid Dec 27 00:37:26 having a proto and using it are 2 different things Dec 27 00:37:39 my n810 was principle work horse right up until nearly onedotzero Dec 27 00:37:59 i couldnt get gcc working right on it Dec 27 00:38:15 so it sat, i still continued optimizing liqbase on the 810 Dec 27 00:38:24 * n900evil need gcc on n900 Dec 27 00:38:26 knowing that the faster i got it there the better it would be longterm Dec 27 00:38:41 lcuk: well, anyway, liqbase is a strange kind of app, I'd rather develop something native Dec 27 00:38:42 add the sdk and tools repositories (same ones in scratchbox) Dec 27 00:38:54 cant get more native than liqbase Dec 27 00:39:05 here we go... Dec 27 00:39:09 from inception to now its lived breathed and belongs on the nokia maemo devices Dec 27 00:40:12 I don't want to tell you for a 100th time that you're wrong Dec 27 00:40:23 It's pretty obvious that by doing something that people was said is impossible on N810, and making it possible, that taking that and running it on N900 would prove to be pretty nice... Dec 27 00:40:26 native is native, liqbase is liqbase Dec 27 00:40:45 you havent told me what you mean by native though, natively what Dec 27 00:41:04 ShadowJK, indeed Dec 27 00:41:34 it's like calling, well, something from palm OS native cause it can be launced with n800 Dec 27 00:42:07 not at all, thats called emulation Dec 27 00:42:23 i think hermes is a native applicaiton Dec 27 00:42:34 it was written from its ground up with the device in mind Dec 27 00:42:48 i think shopper is a native application, for the same reason Dec 27 00:43:15 xchat however isnt, its a damn fine piece of open source software *ported* to the device Dec 27 00:43:24 and it utilizes maemo 5 ui Dec 27 00:45:00 native app is an app that integrates with os somehow Dec 27 00:45:25 what about games? Dec 27 00:45:32 bounce doesnt look like maemo5 Dec 27 00:45:40 well, it's a game Dec 27 00:45:53 so is xchat, the graphics are a bit shit tho Dec 27 00:46:00 your native talk is futile Dec 27 00:46:46 xchat runs within maemo Dec 27 00:46:54 liqbase apps rusns within liqbase Dec 27 00:46:59 that runs within maemo Dec 27 00:47:09 that's sort of "emulation" Dec 27 00:48:11 hm, the same could be said about apps using sdl? Dec 27 00:48:14 wazd please i started this conversation to help you Dec 27 00:48:19 or gtk Dec 27 00:48:24 or anything else Dec 27 00:49:15 ah, looks like I can't be understanded Dec 27 00:49:20 understood* Dec 27 00:50:51 I'm pretty fine with doing concepts for existing apps cause I love to help people that way Dec 27 00:51:10 stop talking about concepts! i want apps now :D Dec 27 00:51:20 Ceron: make one Dec 27 00:51:26 clippy! Dec 27 00:51:29 what app Dec 27 00:51:38 navigation software (nautical finnish marine charts) Dec 27 00:51:39 :D Dec 27 00:51:46 ask lcuk, hes very good at making useful apps Dec 27 00:52:08 "It looks like you're trying to go southwest." Dec 27 00:52:30 Ceron, do you just need picture overlays Dec 27 00:52:35 how about plato client Dec 27 00:52:45 or full on vector sharts with gps tracking Dec 27 00:52:53 charts/sharks Dec 27 00:53:05 lcuk: i bought the "VeneCd/Merikartta CD" from the store Dec 27 00:53:22 wazd_, facepalm @ jaek. . . . Dec 27 00:53:23 its a damn windows program but the charts are raster in a access database Dec 27 00:53:26 that tells me an aweful lot Dec 27 00:53:42 heh Dec 27 00:53:48 i worked with access stuff for ages Dec 27 00:53:48 they could be used with some maemo mapper type of program :P Dec 27 00:54:05 ive got a converter somewhere for access to sqlite (available on device) Dec 27 00:54:28 write the company Dec 27 00:54:57 seriously even some of the biggest companies in the world use windows programs for nautical navigation Dec 27 00:55:01 on there ships Dec 27 00:55:04 its terrible :D Dec 27 00:55:04 Ceron, how large is the database, in testing the limits for sqlite with embedded blobs was about 100mb flawlessly Dec 27 00:55:18 GAN900: who's it? :) Dec 27 00:55:20 ceron its historical and hard to change Dec 27 00:56:14 theres about 0 good nautical navigation programs for linux Dec 27 00:56:59 wazd_, the "oldschool" XChat user Dec 27 00:57:00 ceron, what about iphone Dec 27 00:57:13 iphone has alot yes Dec 27 00:57:21 i wonder how you market that app in appstore Dec 27 00:57:22 but they cant be ported to maemo right? Dec 27 00:57:36 or any app for a specific target audience/event Dec 27 00:57:58 ceron: in some cases sure. Maybe easier to rewrite though. Dec 27 00:58:00 GAN900: aah, taht guy from blog Dec 27 00:58:09 http://www.hannusales.fi/uusiloisto/TaskuLoisto.htm Dec 27 00:58:26 GAN900: well, he has his opinion :) Dec 27 00:58:27 http://www.hannusales.fi/uusiloisto/isot/P1010341.JPG Dec 27 00:58:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IxuLSaGtVA&feature=player_embedded Dec 27 00:59:27 GAN900: Anyway, I think it would really be better to develop another IRC client, and leave XChat alone Dec 27 00:59:30 Ceron, its for n97 Dec 27 00:59:33 as well Dec 27 00:59:35 and windows ce :p Dec 27 00:59:41 wazd_, lot more work, though. Dec 27 00:59:48 GAN900: hmm Dec 27 01:00:06 nahh its easy to write irc clients! Dec 27 01:00:08 GAN900: I was told that changing XCAt is impossible task :D Dec 27 01:00:12 wazd_: why start out from scratch? Dec 27 01:00:32 anyone Dec 27 01:00:34 use irssi :\ Dec 27 01:00:37 Ceron: well, maybe we can pick a simplier client Dec 27 01:00:39 whats wrong with irssi? Dec 27 01:00:50 Ceron: as a base Dec 27 01:01:16 i dont understand why you even talking about new irc clients when you got the supreme irc client Dec 27 01:01:27 irssi is the one and only true irc client :p Dec 27 01:01:57 * lcuk wants new client because i want new usable fingerable features Dec 27 01:01:58 Ceron: btw, we can use it with proper frontend for example Dec 27 01:02:01 BitchX! Dec 27 01:02:31 whats wrong with irssi? you there is page-up/down tab Dec 27 01:02:35 all accesable with fingers Dec 27 01:02:38 in terminal Dec 27 01:02:51 i want avatars Dec 27 01:02:58 go to msn for avatars Dec 27 01:02:59 taking up like 6 lines of text room Dec 27 01:03:00 and thumbnails Dec 27 01:03:02 >.< Dec 27 01:03:32 the little screen of the n900, i dont think its wise to fill the rows with pics :) Dec 27 01:03:39 keep irssi simple and clean is the way Dec 27 01:03:44 depends what channel you are in Dec 27 01:03:44 irc* Dec 27 01:03:54 I am very surprised how fast the keyboard is getting with just a few hours practive. Dec 27 01:04:03 then visit a chan without or *shock* carry on using the one that works. Dec 27 01:04:17 * lcuk is not religious and loves the variety of implementations Dec 27 01:04:39 you should sell your soul to irssi Dec 27 01:04:43 just look at web browsers and email clients and stuff Dec 27 01:04:47 If you want images, just go to 4chan /b/ Dec 27 01:04:48 people have features they like Dec 27 01:05:07 n900evil, some people do, but retention is a bitch Dec 27 01:05:13 I want lynx on device. Dec 27 01:05:16 i want the piccs more like twitter Dec 27 01:05:25 errr flickr rather Dec 27 01:05:30 retain usefulness Dec 27 01:05:38 lol twitter Dec 27 01:05:41 twitter completly useless Dec 27 01:05:42 the chans are too transitory Dec 27 01:05:54 flickr is annoying. Dec 27 01:06:11 picasaweb > flickr Dec 27 01:06:18 They won't implement obvious features. Dec 27 01:06:33 then dont use it, plenty more out there Dec 27 01:06:46 For example being able to upload old photos. Dec 27 01:06:54 because google doesnt want to work with maemo :\ seems like Dec 27 01:06:58 i am just sick of people posting pictures and me having to tap/hold silly press thing Dec 27 01:07:01 to get at info Dec 27 01:07:03 i wont be able to upload n900 pics directly to picasaweb Dec 27 01:07:17 why not just have a thumb and open the picture viewer Dec 27 01:07:23 Ceron, sharing option Dec 27 01:07:27 should be one? Dec 27 01:07:35 if not, it can be developers using the std interface Dec 27 01:08:33 developed* Dec 27 01:09:39 lcuk: you are using xchat? Dec 27 01:10:07 in windows yeah Dec 27 01:10:21 Split the channel window, and put thumbs in it. Dec 27 01:10:32 populated from links. Dec 27 01:10:35 mm? in windows it doesnt matter Dec 27 01:10:40 right click works? Dec 27 01:11:24 well, i say it doesnt matter, i tihnk in the near future it will Dec 27 01:12:36 yeah - was meaning on n900 Dec 27 01:13:49 n900evil, chat wouldnt allow the extra things i need the chat flow for though Dec 27 01:14:01 x Dec 27 01:14:03 lcuk: true Dec 27 01:14:20 I want a wall of text Dec 27 01:14:50 i want pretty kinetics and recognisable things Dec 27 01:15:01 Fair enough. Dec 27 01:15:29 won't of course help on busy channels and small screens. Dec 27 01:15:46 nothing helps that! Dec 27 01:16:01 Hmm. Placement of apostophie is annoying. Dec 27 01:16:12 i remember being in rly busy chans on desktop where the flow was so quick you could barely watch Dec 27 01:16:14 As are splits. Dec 27 01:16:29 DDOS? Dec 27 01:16:42 no, just bustling chat Dec 27 01:16:43 Again :/ Dec 27 01:17:08 the mini split up there just looks like a server down Dec 27 01:17:49 yeah. Wondering if earlier December had returned. Dec 27 01:18:26 heh Dec 27 01:50:55 * n900evil is trying vikeys on nethack over telnet. Dec 27 02:12:35 I'm having a hard time importing my contacts from a .csv file. Any clue as to why? Dec 27 02:39:49 Hrm, when I try to apt-get update in scratchbox under the arm target I end up having problems with sudo wanting to add files that would 'break sudoers', anyone encounter this? Dec 27 02:40:30 no Dec 27 02:40:59 works fine here Dec 27 02:41:02 flandry how goes the joydev protest Dec 27 02:41:21 the protest? :D Dec 27 02:41:36 broken dependency Dec 27 02:41:40 Attila is going to release the package any day now Dec 27 02:41:45 haha Dec 27 02:41:46 ok Dec 27 02:42:00 i installed the module manually and it works ok Dec 27 02:42:17 yeh but package complains Dec 27 02:42:35 good to hear Dec 27 02:42:40 if i had known it would take this long i would have just released a precompiled joydev package Dec 27 02:43:08 next weekend i will if attila is still having trouble Dec 27 02:43:12 ukki has a decent duke 3d Dec 27 02:43:28 i think uqm is a great game Dec 27 02:43:38 i'm actually working on sdlmame right now Dec 27 02:43:38 ahh I fixed it Dec 27 02:43:49 visudo was failing because my user (1000) was not in /etc/passwd Dec 27 02:43:52 i need a debugger for armel Dec 27 02:43:52 nice Dec 27 02:44:01 gdb on device here Dec 27 02:44:01 can't find gdb Dec 27 02:44:06 oh? Dec 27 02:44:18 is it installed by default or something? Dec 27 02:44:40 i can't see any package for it Dec 27 02:44:59 Version: 6.8.50.20090417-0maemo2+0m5 Dec 27 02:44:59 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1), libexpat1 (>= 1.95.8), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.2.1), libncurses5 (>= 5.7-1), libreadline5 (>= 5.2) Dec 27 02:45:16 they can be hard to find Dec 27 02:45:27 wth Dec 27 02:45:36 is apt-cache feeding me a line Dec 27 02:47:22 i miss things with apt Dec 27 02:47:28 i use teh googles Dec 27 02:48:00 it's not in the repo? Dec 27 02:52:21 it is somewhere hold on Dec 27 02:53:24 i don't get it, i can see it here http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/g/gdb/ Dec 27 02:53:36 /repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/g/gdb/gdb_6.8.50.20090417-0maemo2+0m5_armel.deb Dec 27 02:53:42 but it's not in any repos i have enabled Dec 27 02:53:46 hmm. text nethack is actually playable on n900 Dec 27 02:54:04 though vikeys are awkward Dec 27 02:54:07 same here flandry Dec 27 02:54:22 did you just download the .deb and use dpkg? Dec 27 02:54:30 yeps Dec 27 02:54:51 ok thanks Dec 27 02:55:36 i feel stupid but maybe something is wrong **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 27 02:59:56 2009