**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 03 02:59:58 2010
Jan 03 03:00:28 <ceh901> i'll just send it back when my other order is confirmed
Jan 03 03:01:04 <phreck> ah
Jan 03 03:02:10 <kamui2> lookin good
Jan 03 03:02:14 <dmj7261> Is there a way to get microb to support theora?
Jan 03 03:02:17 <kamui2> been building for like 10 minutes
Jan 03 03:15:20 <cehteh> kamui2: you building openmp for the n900?
Jan 03 03:15:42 <Sargun> openamp?
Jan 03 03:15:55 <cehteh> openmp would make me really wodner
Jan 03 03:17:39 <SpeedEvil> There are maybe 7 cores in the n900
Jan 03 03:17:51 <SpeedEvil> Though not all will be reprogrammable.
Jan 03 03:18:00 <cehteh> yeah :)
Jan 03 03:18:08 <cehteh> and they are not symetric
Jan 03 03:18:19 <cehteh> iirc thats an requirement for openmp
Jan 03 03:18:20 <SpeedEvil> not very, no.
Jan 03 03:20:19 <Sargun> SpeedEvil, 7? GSM, CPU, Wi-Fi, GPS (or is it a "dumb" chip), GPU
Jan 03 03:20:32 <dmj7261> perhaps openmp is a dependency of blender?
Jan 03 03:20:39 <cehteh> gps can not be completely dumb it needs some dsp
Jan 03 03:21:03 <cehteh> and you forgot *the* DSP
Jan 03 03:21:18 <jebba> wtf is with building blender on the n900? How could that possibly be usable?
Jan 03 03:21:20 <cehteh> thats prolly the only user reprogrammanle 2nd cpi
Jan 03 03:21:35 <dmj7261> blender 2.5
Jan 03 03:21:39 <kamui2> no
Jan 03 03:21:41 <kamui2> ceh901
Jan 03 03:21:44 <kamui2> cehteh: forge tthat
Jan 03 03:21:48 <kamui2> it was a nightmare
Jan 03 03:21:53 <kamui2> looks like I had to rebuild GCC
Jan 03 03:21:55 <kamui2> and I wasn't doing that
Jan 03 03:21:59 <kamui2> i just compiled out that option
Jan 03 03:22:04 <cehteh> you really meant openmp? :)
Jan 03 03:22:08 <kamui2> and it was working too, but my system broke
Jan 03 03:22:09 <cehteh> hehe good choice
Jan 03 03:22:30 <cehteh> and yes openmp needs a matching gcc
Jan 03 03:22:34 <kamui2> cehteh, yea, I didn't know what it was, but a little research and I realized that I would be rebuilding the kernel before long
Jan 03 03:22:38 <cehteh> i could have told that to you before :)
Jan 03 03:22:41 <Macer> hahahahaha
Jan 03 03:22:53 <kamui2> yea, I wish you had been here when I was bitching
Jan 03 03:22:54 <Macer> the starving artist starve sale!
Jan 03 03:22:56 <Macer> omg! hahhaha
Jan 03 03:22:57 <dmj7261> So you just disabled openmp for blender?
Jan 03 03:23:00 <cehteh> and well openmp is only useful if you have at least 2 cpus .. better (much) more
Jan 03 03:23:00 <jebba> dmj7261: but really? Like blender the 3D app?  How could that be used?
Jan 03 03:23:02 <Macer> that's just cruel
Jan 03 03:23:05 <kamui2> every time I hit a new god damn dep, I whine
Jan 03 03:23:25 <jello69> the tv-out quality is the best signal i have seen
Jan 03 03:23:25 <kamui2> anyway, im glad it seems like I hit my last roadblock
Jan 03 03:23:28 <SpeedEvil> Sargun: bluetooth too
Jan 03 03:23:33 <Macer> they are having a starving artist art sale in chicago
Jan 03 03:23:34 <kamui2> I love tv out on the N900
Jan 03 03:23:40 <Macer> i wonder if any of the artists are going to go there
Jan 03 03:23:42 <kamui2> I love everything about the N900 except conversations
Jan 03 03:23:46 <SpeedEvil> Sargun: GSM may also have 2 cores
Jan 03 03:23:48 <kamui2> and the phonebook
Jan 03 03:23:50 <dmj7261> http://imagebin.org/77910
Jan 03 03:23:51 * cehteh wants to port his C/C++ debugging lib to n900 too .. next days
Jan 03 03:23:55 <Sargun> SpeedEvil, oh, yeah, DSP.
Jan 03 03:24:06 <jebba> holy smokes
Jan 03 03:24:12 <dmj7261> jebba: view that on an n900 and see what you think
Jan 03 03:24:17 <kamui2> damn, thats usually bad when you get like 100 warnings
Jan 03 03:24:22 <jebba> i think you may be nuts ;)
Jan 03 03:24:25 <kamui2> I may have to build ffmpeg
Jan 03 03:24:27 <kamui2> *sigh*
Jan 03 03:24:35 <jebba> kamui2: i built ffmpeg already
Jan 03 03:24:38 <kamui2> no one is gonna render on the N900, why the hell is this a dependency
Jan 03 03:24:38 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: well nothing is harder reprogrammable than the baseband chipset .. i wont even wonder if nokia doesnt know anything about it and only uses TI's sdk
Jan 03 03:24:43 <kamui2> jebba, o suite
Jan 03 03:24:49 <kamui2> gpackage?
Jan 03 03:24:56 <kamui2> I need the headers and lib
Jan 03 03:24:58 <jebba> should be in extras devel if it ever made it thru the fkn builder
Jan 03 03:25:01 <cehteh> ah no there are some open stacks in the works
Jan 03 03:25:09 <kamui2> Ill look if it crashes on me
Jan 03 03:25:15 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: yes - though some TI docs on earlier chips have leaked
Jan 03 03:25:16 <cehteh> but still the big corps sit on their patents there
Jan 03 03:25:16 <kamui2> right now I think it will opt to skip ffmpeg
Jan 03 03:25:24 <jebba> kamui2: or you can use my repo:
Jan 03 03:25:24 <jebba>  deb http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba unstable main
Jan 03 03:25:25 <kamui2> thats what all the warnings are fo
Jan 03 03:25:27 <kamui2> r
Jan 03 03:25:32 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: there is complete documentation on the TI calypso chipset
Jan 03 03:25:34 <kamui2> thanks jebbs
Jan 03 03:25:46 <Sargun> Writing a GSM stack is non-trivial
Jan 03 03:25:47 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: which is GSM modem used in the openmoko phones.
Jan 03 03:25:52 <SpeedEvil> very.
Jan 03 03:25:53 <jebba> kamui2: if there's any other deps that need to be built for ffmpeg, lemme know and i can build them
Jan 03 03:25:55 <cehteh> kamui2: hey i have emacs23 running on my n900 .. if you strip blender further there wont be much difference :)
Jan 03 03:26:07 <kamui2> lol ceh901
Jan 03 03:26:13 <kamui2> cehteh
Jan 03 03:26:19 <cehteh> well same person :)
Jan 03 03:26:27 <kamui2> i figured, but it semed rude
Jan 03 03:26:28 <kamui2> :)
Jan 03 03:26:44 <kamui2> I remember 10 years ago, I had a crossroads, learn vi or learn emacs
Jan 03 03:26:48 <kamui2> I picked vi
Jan 03 03:26:56 <kamui2> now I want to learn emacs... this might be the perfect time
Jan 03 03:27:09 <Sargun> noo
Jan 03 03:27:14 <Sargun> nano forever
Jan 03 03:27:14 <cehteh> emacs needs little hacking for the n900 but then works nice
Jan 03 03:27:33 <cehteh> and moreover the emacs23 package is a complete version, not crippled
Jan 03 03:27:39 <cehteh> fully optified
Jan 03 03:28:00 <cehteh> http://sumoudou.org/%E7%9B8%E6%922%E5%A4%96%EFC%9AGNU%20Emacs%20for%20Nokia%20N900.html
Jan 03 03:28:11 <cehteh> grr .. xchat hates percent signs
Jan 03 03:28:23 <cehteh> google yourself "emacs n900"
Jan 03 03:28:48 <kamui2> yea
Jan 03 03:28:52 <kamui2> but xchat on the N900 rocks
Jan 03 03:28:54 <kamui2> also
Jan 03 03:28:59 <jebba> natisbad did an emacs build
Jan 03 03:29:01 <kamui2> pidgin is WAY better than I expected
Jan 03 03:29:08 <kamui2> doesn't suck battery down at all
Jan 03 03:29:15 <cehteh> imo emacs could be a very nice mobile OS .. with the dbus support it can do almost anything and more the n900 can do and lacks still
Jan 03 03:29:21 <kamui2> just need a better way to launch it, and keep messages from auto maximizing
Jan 03 03:29:36 <cehteh> jebba: is that the maemo4 build?
Jan 03 03:29:40 <kamui2> yea, thats what I find crazy about how people describe emacs
Jan 03 03:29:42 <Sargun> o.O
Jan 03 03:29:46 <dmj7261> Pidgin is great once you tweak the ui to let you see more than 3 lines of text
Jan 03 03:29:47 <kamui2> like emacs is a way of life, not an editor
Jan 03 03:29:53 <kamui2> emacs can do anything
Jan 03 03:29:58 <jebba> http://www.natisbad.org/N900/n900-apps-emacs-22.2.html
Jan 03 03:30:00 <kamui2> yea, im working on the options dmj7261
Jan 03 03:30:04 <arachnist> a way of life without a good text editor
Jan 03 03:30:08 <cehteh> thats emacs22 not 23 :)
Jan 03 03:30:09 <kamui2> how can you make shit autostart
Jan 03 03:30:26 <kamui2> after busybox has started
Jan 03 03:30:31 <kamui2> or is it matchbox
Jan 03 03:30:37 <kamui2> the window manager
Jan 03 03:30:38 <kamui2> shit
Jan 03 03:30:39 <kamui2> shoot
Jan 03 03:30:40 <jebba> matchbox gets loaded then dropped
Jan 03 03:30:59 <jebba> not sure exactly what it's doing, but afaict its part of the gui bootstrapping or somesuch
Jan 03 03:31:51 <jebba> busybox is the embedded "do all" which contains ls, cat, grep, df, modprobe, etc everything symlinked to one small binary. Meant for embedded systems. So you dont get real GNU ls, etc.
Jan 03 03:36:12 <SpeedEvil> And is annoyingly compatible.
Jan 03 03:36:21 <SpeedEvil> The most used switches tend to work.
Jan 03 03:36:24 <kamui2> still building
Jan 03 03:36:28 <SpeedEvil> Anything else doesn't.
Jan 03 03:36:36 <kamui2> oh well, for now Im ok living with launching pidgin manually after reboot
Jan 03 03:44:37 <kamui2> which v4l device is the frontcam?
Jan 03 03:44:47 <kamui2> vs6555?
Jan 03 03:44:56 <SpeedEvil> 0 I think
Jan 03 03:44:57 <kamui2> or adp1653
Jan 03 03:45:02 <SpeedEvil> the vs* is the crapcam
Jan 03 03:45:07 <kamui2> ok sweet
Jan 03 03:45:08 <kamui2> thanks
Jan 03 03:45:48 <SpeedEvil> Though some digging on the spec sheets I could find for it seemed to indicate it shouldn't be close to as bad as it is.
Jan 03 03:45:49 <dmj7261> vs6555 as opposed to video1?
Jan 03 03:45:54 <SpeedEvil> It should be quite bad - but not _that_ bad.
Jan 03 03:46:21 <SpeedEvil> Unless the spec-sheets lie.
Jan 03 03:47:13 <wackl> does someone know how to enable the video-output of the N900?
Jan 03 03:47:26 <villager> SpeedEvil: don't they say that cam is one of the things the next firmware update is supposed to fix?
Jan 03 03:48:05 <villager> was some driver bug
Jan 03 03:48:07 <dmj7261> it has already been improved in recent firmware, but that firmware is not public yet from what I've heard
Jan 03 03:49:15 <kamui2> shit
Jan 03 03:49:24 <kamui2> what protocols does pidgin support
Jan 03 03:49:27 <kamui2> video on
Jan 03 03:49:36 <kamui2> msn and aim don't allow a video call
Jan 03 03:49:39 <kamui2> apparently
Jan 03 03:49:58 <SpeedEvil> villager: fixed - yes. - but 31dB SNR at 100 lux isn't anything great.
Jan 03 03:50:06 <SpeedEvil> (manufacturers specs)
Jan 03 03:50:18 <SpeedEvil> kamui2: none - AIUI
Jan 03 03:51:31 <villager> SpeedEvil: yes, I wasn't disputing the "it should be quite bad" part, just that the "not _that_ bad" is being dealt with
Jan 03 03:53:26 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jan 03 03:53:35 <mattsqz> no
Jan 03 03:53:38 <mattsqz> ?
Jan 03 03:53:58 * SpeedEvil wishes another TI technology was available in cheap cams.
Jan 03 03:54:03 <SpeedEvil> Impactron CCDs
Jan 03 03:54:12 <kamui2> anyone have issues with wifi not reconnecting automatically
Jan 03 03:54:15 <kamui2> this is wierd
Jan 03 03:54:16 <SpeedEvil> essentially image intensifier tech in solid state
Jan 03 03:54:24 <kamui2> usualy I can't get the at&t to connect automatically
Jan 03 03:54:44 <kamui2> but now it always wants to use that and not wifi, despite the fact that I set wifi to preferred, and I have my home wifi and at&t in my connections list
Jan 03 03:55:53 <villager> I have wifi issues if the n900's wifi powersaving is too high
Jan 03 03:56:15 <villager> if the ap doesn't like it
Jan 03 03:56:43 <villager> I should get a better ap one of these days
Jan 03 03:57:06 <redeeman> what sort of issues?
Jan 03 03:58:51 <villager> at highest powersaving level (default), it has problems connecting to the ap... at medium powersaving (which I use now), it becomes unreachable if I don't use internet actively on the n900
Jan 03 03:59:05 <villager> I was just replying to kamui2
Jan 03 03:59:30 <redeeman> i have a linksys wap54g which works perfectly,  i also have a china one, doesn't work
Jan 03 03:59:38 <redeeman> (in that powersaving is broken there)
Jan 03 03:59:47 <SpeedEvil> With most extreme powersaving turned on, ssh is a bit slow when typing to the n900
Jan 03 03:59:51 <SpeedEvil> but that's it
Jan 03 03:59:53 <SpeedEvil> (for me)
Jan 03 04:10:08 <jebba> SpeedEvil: there's lots been done on the camera at gitorious it appears. Not sure when it'll hit the end users though.
Jan 03 04:10:37 <jebba> git://gitorious.org/omap3camera/mainline.git
Jan 03 04:18:08 <jello69> why dont our mp3 players output 48k to skip the resampling?
Jan 03 04:18:28 <jello69> wonder if i has the skills?
Jan 03 04:18:39 <jello69> someone has?
Jan 03 04:18:49 <jello69> please say
Jan 03 04:21:13 <jello69> the proper place to do it is in the fast fourier transform from frequency domain to time domain; input sample base rate rate may be 32khz or 16 or 44.1 but pcm sound is *always* generated at 48khz
Jan 03 04:24:39 <jello69> maybe only mplayer suffers this
Jan 03 04:27:33 <jebba> how would one do something like  `iwconfig wlan0 essid foo`  on the n900?  no iw, iwconfig
Jan 03 04:27:55 <jebba> fix plz ;)
Jan 03 04:30:28 <SpeedEvil> jello69: naah
Jan 03 04:31:26 <SpeedEvil> jello69: unless it's fundamentally impossible to change the samplerate in hardware - and I doubt that - it makes vastly more sense to simply switch to the samplerate of a program requesting it that uses a lot of sound
Jan 03 04:31:43 <SpeedEvil> jello69: So mplayer gets to switch samplerates. pidgin doesn't.
Jan 03 04:33:00 <jebba> ah duh, wireless tools
Jan 03 04:33:36 <jello69> hi fi
Jan 03 04:33:53 <jello69> we also need package bundles
Jan 03 04:34:10 <jello69> gcompris because it
Jan 03 04:34:15 <jello69> gcompris is not
Jan 03 04:34:25 <jello69> gcompris goiont to
Jan 03 04:34:31 <jello69> gcompris do like this
Jan 03 04:34:49 <jello69> brainstorm
Jan 03 04:34:57 <SpeedEvil> cheesestorm
Jan 03 04:35:37 <jello69> i guess mplayer doesnt need to optihified
Jan 03 04:35:50 <SpeedEvil> fk
Jan 03 04:35:51 <SpeedEvil> afk
Jan 03 04:36:05 <SpeedEvil> well - not technically aFK, it's right next to me, but I'm going to sleep
Jan 03 04:36:43 <jello69> good night SpeedEvil - thanks
Jan 03 04:37:09 <jello69> appreciate your thoughts
Jan 03 04:58:59 <cehteh> uhm ... suddenly i cant connect to wlan anymore
Jan 03 05:01:18 <Remosi> I've had that happen -- rebooting seems to fix it
Jan 03 05:01:38 <kamui2> well after wasting 20 minutes or so compiling openEXR and its deps, I am excluding it from teh final build :)
Jan 03 05:01:40 <kamui2> sweet.
Jan 03 05:02:27 <cehteh> nope done a cold reboot, the accelerometer was stuck too
Jan 03 05:02:37 <cehteh> maybe i reboot my AP
Jan 03 05:04:05 <lcuk> cehteh, mmm ? thats a new one.  if the accelerometer gets stuck again, please run liqflow and confirm its truly stuck
Jan 03 05:04:22 <cehteh> reboot fixed it
Jan 03 05:04:29 <lcuk> yeah, still
Jan 03 05:04:39 <lcuk> thats odd, never encountered anything but rock solid accel
Jan 03 05:05:08 <cehteh> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=444069#post444069
Jan 03 05:05:19 <cehteh> seems i am not the only one
Jan 03 05:06:18 <cehteh> well my laptops accelerometer can be calibrated by /sys ... donno about the n900 .. i would have tried that if wlan worked, but this really required a reboot
Jan 03 05:06:48 <cehteh> wlan shows my network but cant dhcp a ip
Jan 03 05:06:59 <cehteh> so prolly a acesspoint issue
Jan 03 05:10:07 <lcuk> cehteh, not come across any calibration stuff
Jan 03 05:10:24 <lcuk> not needed it, but i note attitude people have mentioned it
Jan 03 05:11:26 <cehteh> resetting AP worked
Jan 03 05:12:25 <cehteh>  cat /sys/devices/platform/lis3lv02d/calibrate
Jan 03 05:12:25 <cehteh> (25,478,878)
Jan 03 05:12:30 <cehteh> on my laptop ...
Jan 03 05:12:50 <cehteh> you can write values there
Jan 03 05:15:53 * Flandry <3 the new autobuild servers
Jan 03 05:17:50 * lcuk smiles @ Flandry.  that sounds promising
Jan 03 05:18:02 <cehteh> finally in service?
Jan 03 05:18:10 <Flandry> i assume
Jan 03 05:18:25 * lcuk coughs
Jan 03 05:18:26 <Flandry> it took about 3 minutes from submission to notification of success just now
Jan 03 05:18:53 <cehteh> nice
Jan 03 05:18:53 <lcuk> does it require a fuck yeah! :D if so thats great.
Jan 03 05:19:18 <Flandry> something like that :D
Jan 03 05:19:38 <lcuk> important part, did it pass
Jan 03 05:19:46 <Flandry> of course :P
Jan 03 05:19:48 * lcuk dohs
Jan 03 05:19:53 <lcuk> you already said lol
Jan 03 05:19:57 <Flandry> i can fail a dozen times a minute lol
Jan 03 05:20:08 <lcuk> thats quite good to hear
Jan 03 05:20:58 <Flandry> [2010-01-03 07:10:03] Processing package gweled 0.3.2-1. Uploader: flandry, builder: builder2
Jan 03 05:21:03 <Flandry> [2010-01-03 07:11:09] gweled 0.3.2-1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository
Jan 03 05:21:48 <Flandry> 66 seconds from starting to finished
Jan 03 05:22:17 <lcuk> can you automatically push to -testing ?
Jan 03 05:22:28 <lcuk> or is that a manual webapp right now?
Jan 03 05:22:41 <Flandry> how do you mean, automatically?
Jan 03 05:22:52 <Flandry> you click a link in the package page
Jan 03 05:23:09 <Flandry> beyond that it's automatic
Jan 03 05:23:14 <lcuk> ahh, so could be automated
Jan 03 05:23:36 <lcuk> neat :)
Jan 03 05:23:38 <Arkenoi> I have to admit that for month+ i use n900 i've never received a single MMS (i mean, not even delivery attempt)
Jan 03 05:23:40 <Flandry> i think it's supposed to be manual
Jan 03 05:23:57 <Flandry> not everything in -devel should be promoted :D
Jan 03 05:24:10 <lcuk> of course :)
Jan 03 05:24:29 <lcuk> but its only technical grounds which limit that
Jan 03 05:25:05 <lcuk> if a canonical package could be created that was game level addons
Jan 03 05:25:24 <lcuk> that are known safe because the game engine deals with them
Jan 03 05:26:06 <Flandry> oh, yeah
Jan 03 05:26:29 <Flandry> well we need to figure out how to handle those still i think
Jan 03 05:26:41 <Flandry> they shouldn't need to be in /user/
Jan 03 05:26:42 <lcuk> same way
Jan 03 05:26:46 <lcuk> the mechanism works
Jan 03 05:26:54 <Flandry> i posted about that earlier today
Jan 03 05:27:06 <lcuk> why does it matter
Jan 03 05:27:07 <Flandry> thinking about that very issue
Jan 03 05:27:27 <lcuk> the addons might be new screensavers
Jan 03 05:27:37 * lcuk curses hannah montanah but thats where it sticks
Jan 03 05:27:44 <kamui2> lol
Jan 03 05:27:46 <lcuk> same rules
Jan 03 05:27:47 <kamui2> compiled out ffmpeg
Jan 03 05:27:49 <Flandry> because HAM has limited granularity
Jan 03 05:28:06 <jebba> cool, i just got NAT going on the N900 so i can use it as a wifi hotspot via gprs0
Jan 03 05:28:07 <Flandry> lol hannah
Jan 03 05:28:09 <lcuk> the breakdown of the app store
Jan 03 05:28:23 <kamui2> I can build it back later with jebba's ffmpeg after I get a successful first build
Jan 03 05:28:29 <lcuk> the one place where not all apps can live easily
Jan 03 05:28:36 <Flandry> and there's no reason to put add-ons for an app visible to people who don't have the app installed
Jan 03 05:28:40 <luke-jr> jebba: pfft NAT; use IPv6!
Jan 03 05:28:44 <lcuk> some events are created within a context or event
Jan 03 05:28:51 <jebba> kamui2: i was gone for a bit. You need anything for ffmpeg?
Jan 03 05:29:03 <kamui2> at the moment, Im compiling it out
Jan 03 05:29:20 <kamui2> once I get a good build Ill try it and let you know whats up
Jan 03 05:29:24 <jebba> ok
Jan 03 05:29:29 <jebba> moe@blagblagblag.org if you need to email me
Jan 03 05:29:31 <Flandry> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39073
Jan 03 05:29:43 <kamui2> at this point, its been 2 days and I just want to see this thing run on the N900
Jan 03 05:29:52 * lcuk has been busy last couple of weeks
Jan 03 05:31:01 <jebba> heh
Jan 03 05:34:25 <lcuk> Flandry, :) nice, happy new year btw
Jan 03 05:34:28 <Arkenoi> Wow, is it quite polular practice among european cellular networks to charge you monthly for just the fact you have data plan, while "default" tariffs are voice-only? (still reading the MMS thread on tmo)
Jan 03 05:35:03 <jebba> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=450777#post450777  microHOWTO for NAT
Jan 03 05:35:24 <kamui2> not that I use it much, but is mms in the upcoming fw feature list?
Jan 03 05:35:38 <kamui2> speaking of FW, where can i get a copy of my fw just in case I have to restore?
Jan 03 05:35:49 <kamui2> anything stock for download, or woul dI have to image my own device essentially
Jan 03 05:36:04 <luke-jr> O.O
Jan 03 05:36:06 <kamui2> btw
Jan 03 05:36:09 <kamui2> blender is FINISHE!
Jan 03 05:36:11 <luke-jr> is it possible to use texts for IP??
Jan 03 05:36:16 <luke-jr> IPoTXT
Jan 03 05:36:21 <Flandry> nice
Jan 03 05:36:24 <luke-jr> screw data plan then?
Jan 03 05:36:46 <Flandry> happy new year lcuk and everyone, belatedly
Jan 03 05:37:11 <Remosi> is there any way to find out what frequency/protocol 3G is using at the moment?
Jan 03 05:37:30 <luke-jr> Remosi: yes
Jan 03 05:38:03 <luke-jr> something like that is certainly possible
Jan 03 05:38:10 <luke-jr> whether Nokia will tell you how to, I doubt
Jan 03 05:38:17 <luke-jr> unless they actually explicitly support it
Jan 03 05:38:36 <luke-jr> because they obviously think they still own the N900 they sold to you
Jan 03 05:41:28 <lcuk> by the way, does anyone know how to use the vibration thing, is there a c example anyewhere?
Jan 03 05:45:25 <jebba> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/NAT
Jan 03 05:46:00 <lcuk> more coolness :D
Jan 03 05:46:04 * lcuk beds anyway
Jan 03 05:47:03 <kamui2> so
Jan 03 05:47:11 <luke-jr> so
Jan 03 05:47:13 <kamui2> whats the easiest way to get something out of the scratchbox and onto the phone
Jan 03 05:47:18 <kamui2> tar bz
Jan 03 05:47:23 <kamui2> and then ssh it over?
Jan 03 05:50:00 * dmj7261 would like to know this too.
Jan 03 05:51:18 <villager> cool, cold reset of n900 actually resets the accelerometer? I thought mine was permanently busted
Jan 03 05:58:19 <jebba> kamui2: well, build a .deb then ssh it over would be one.  Or make a mini repo
Jan 03 05:59:00 <jebba> I have a section on making .debs and your own repo in this:  http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO
Jan 03 05:59:56 <Kamui> copying the archive over now
Jan 03 06:00:16 <Kamui> damn its gonna be a super hassle to package all this dynamically
Jan 03 06:00:42 <Kamui> maybe i should just do one huge static binary in /opt
Jan 03 06:01:49 <cehteh> Kamui: sbrsh for testing
Jan 03 06:02:17 <cehteh> villager: i rather wonder why it cant be resetted online
Jan 03 06:03:44 <villager> cehteh: yeah, I reloaded the driver and everything, nothing worked
Jan 03 06:03:55 <villager> warm reboot didn't work
Jan 03 06:04:06 <cehteh> yes tried that too :)
Jan 03 06:04:34 <cehteh> but found the thread already some time ago, but cant believe that removing battery is necessary
Jan 03 06:04:57 <villager> and there's no way to calibrate it or anything... I found the X and Z axis got about 6 G off center
Jan 03 06:05:11 <villager> just posted in the talk thread
Jan 03 06:06:21 <jebba> hmm, you can get to talk? i can't at the moment. that's one part that generally works too
Jan 03 06:06:37 <villager> I registered on talk a few minutes ago
Jan 03 06:07:16 <shinkamui> I dont seem to have sbrsh
Jan 03 06:07:20 <shinkamui> was that supposed to be stock?
Jan 03 06:07:37 <cehteh> dunno
Jan 03 06:07:42 <jebba> reggiesuplido.com ?
Jan 03 06:07:49 <shinkamui> checking documentation
Jan 03 06:08:01 <cehteh> you have to install the sbrshd on the device at least .. from -devel
Jan 03 06:08:13 <cehteh> but for the scratchbox i thought its default
Jan 03 06:08:21 <cehteh> i admit i didnt used it yet :)
Jan 03 06:12:09 <ali1234> do we know what accelerometer chip it is yet?
Jan 03 06:12:30 <villager> lis302dl
Jan 03 06:13:42 <ali1234> how did you even get it into 8G mode?
Jan 03 06:14:03 <villager> I said how in the talk posting... that echo command
Jan 03 06:14:53 <ali1234> according to the datasheet there's a power down reg, that should reset it
Jan 03 06:15:05 <villager> yes, but it didn't seem to work
Jan 03 06:15:20 <pwnguin> afaik the general calibration for accels is to place it two ways for each axis
Jan 03 06:16:09 <pwnguin> so you can measure +1g and -1g for x y and z
Jan 03 06:16:29 <jebba> why does talk.maemo.org wordwrap [code] ?
Jan 03 06:16:31 <jebba> gah
Jan 03 06:16:32 <pwnguin> probably could be done in factory and programmed
Jan 03 06:16:33 <ali1234> it's factory calibrated, stored in NVRAM
Jan 03 06:16:43 <pwnguin> well there you go
Jan 03 06:16:46 <ali1234> but presumably you can recalibrate it... that must be what you did
Jan 03 06:17:07 <pwnguin> the digital horizon apps on mine seem off
Jan 03 06:17:10 <lcuk> is this similar to sending a pal tv to aus?
Jan 03 06:17:37 <villager> maybe the calibration registers got messed up somehow by some linux bug, maybe a stray write to the i2c bus or whatever... but *I* certainly didn't recalibrate it
Jan 03 06:17:42 <lcuk> villager, where are you and where does your device think it should be (ie where did you buy it?)
Jan 03 06:18:10 <ali1234> or rather, wrote over the registers
Jan 03 06:18:21 <cehteh> i didnt do anything to the accel either, so prolly some bug
Jan 03 06:18:43 <villager> ali1234: I wasn't messing with any of this stuff before it got busted
Jan 03 06:19:00 <villager> I started looking into it later in order to see if I could fix it
Jan 03 06:19:26 <cehteh> the calibration here isnt very accurate either
Jan 03 06:19:28 <villager> lcuk: huh? I'm in Tromsø, Norway, and that's where I bought it
Jan 03 06:19:49 <lcuk> villager, just a wild hunch :) dont fret
Jan 03 06:22:11 <cehteh> how to restart the bluetooth subsystem?
Jan 03 06:22:11 <villager> ali1234: the calibration registers are 100% undocumented and the linux driver don't access them, so there's no way to intentionally calibrate it if you aren't the manufacturer
Jan 03 06:22:21 <ali1234> sure there is
Jan 03 06:22:24 <ali1234> it's an i2c device
Jan 03 06:22:29 <jebba> http://foolab.org/node/7880  MMS
Jan 03 06:22:39 <ali1234> now the driver might not access them, but the driver isn't the only way to talk to it
Jan 03 06:23:03 <villager> ali1234: you can't do it without knowing how to do it, and like I said, it's undocumented
Jan 03 06:24:01 <villager> at least, I certainly wouldn't try to fry it by experimenting with it
Jan 03 06:24:03 <ali1234> according to the datasheet "The trimming values are stored inside the device by a non volatile memory. Any time the device is turned on, the trimming parameters are downloaded into the registers to be used during the normal operation."
Jan 03 06:24:12 <cehteh> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/12726.pdf  << have fun
Jan 03 06:24:27 <ali1234> if those registers are exposed on i2c you can change them easily with i2c-tools
Jan 03 06:24:35 <villager> ali1234: yes, but it doesn't say which registers, nor whether they're exposed at all
Jan 03 06:24:42 <villager> perhaps they are, perhaps not
Jan 03 06:24:48 <ali1234> there's only 127 possible registers
Jan 03 06:25:15 <villager> well, good luck with frying your device
Jan 03 06:26:07 * cehteh added link to the page
Jan 03 06:27:02 <villager> perhaps it'd be possible to dump the registers now that the accelerometer is working, and compare when it's busted, though
Jan 03 06:28:14 <villager> can't be bothered to figure out how right now though
Jan 03 06:29:16 <cehteh> The product is factory calibrated at 2.5V. The device can be used from 2.16V to 3.6V
Jan 03 06:29:23 <cehteh> .. prolly prom burned in by st already
Jan 03 06:29:36 <villager> yes
Jan 03 06:29:47 <ali1234> right but like it says the stored calibration is copied to registers for normal use
Jan 03 06:29:57 <luke-jr> villager: sounds to me like the registers are reset at boot anyway
Jan 03 06:31:00 <villager> luke-jr: perhaps... but I imagined that'd happen when reloading the driver or rebooting the n900, which didn't help
Jan 03 06:31:12 <ali1234> has to be power cycled
Jan 03 06:31:17 <villager> ony removing the battery did help, apparently
Jan 03 06:31:33 <villager> ony=only
Jan 03 06:31:34 <cehteh> When the self-test bit of ctrl_reg1 is programmed to ¡Æ1¡Æ an actuation force is applied to the sensor, simulating a definite input acceleration.
Jan 03 06:31:45 <cehteh> .. holy shit micromechanics
Jan 03 06:31:54 <villager> yes, I trigged the selftest, it returned "FAILED"
Jan 03 06:31:59 <cehteh> lol
Jan 03 06:32:19 <cehteh> i didnt tried before resetting
Jan 03 06:32:33 <ali1234> http://pastebin.com/m3dabe4ad
Jan 03 06:32:40 <ali1234> register dump, enjoy
Jan 03 06:32:42 <cehteh> but i really expected that the selftest is only electrical not mechanical .. thats awesome
Jan 03 06:33:25 <cehteh> Click and double click recognition
Jan 03 06:33:30 <cehteh> .. wow some hidden gems
Jan 03 06:35:58 <ali1234> here we go, there's a special bit called "BOOT" which refreshes the calibration from NVRAM, in case it was modified
Jan 03 06:36:09 <ali1234> which means 1. it can reset on line, 2. the calibration can be modified
Jan 03 06:36:34 <cehteh> read the datasheet
Jan 03 06:37:01 <cehteh> well so i suspect slight disadjustments are prolly because tooling/soldering inaccuracies
Jan 03 06:37:11 <cehteh> i can live with that anyways
Jan 03 06:37:57 * luke-jr melts cehteh
Jan 03 06:38:52 <villager> perhaps someone should fix the linux driver so it's possible to assert the boot signal
Jan 03 06:39:04 <villager> I imagined it already did, but perhaps not
Jan 03 06:39:07 <ali1234> write 0x80 to reg 0x21
Jan 03 06:39:16 <ali1234> sorry 0x40
Jan 03 06:39:33 <ali1234> see page 27 of datasheet
Jan 03 06:39:58 <villager> I don't know how... maybe post instruction on the talk thread in case others run into this problem
Jan 03 06:40:04 <villager> and don't want to remove battery
Jan 03 06:40:44 <ali1234> you need to compile i2c-tools
Jan 03 06:40:48 <ali1234> then install it
Jan 03 06:41:04 <ali1234> then i2c-set 3 0x21 0x40
Jan 03 06:41:10 <ali1234> something like that anyway
Jan 03 06:41:25 <villager> the specs say that the boot is done at device power up... I *though* it meant when the linux driver would power it up, hmm
Jan 03 06:41:37 <ali1234> no, it means when the chip is powered
Jan 03 06:41:48 <luke-jr> yeah, that is pretty odd
Jan 03 06:41:52 <luke-jr> why is the chip powered constantly?
Jan 03 06:41:57 <cehteh> why not?
Jan 03 06:42:04 <luke-jr> power usage?
Jan 03 06:42:19 <luke-jr> N810 didn't power the GPS when it thought it wasn't being used
Jan 03 06:42:24 <cehteh> this needs very little power and its constantly used
Jan 03 06:42:32 <cehteh> less than 1mA on the datasheet
Jan 03 06:42:40 <luke-jr> it adds up! :P
Jan 03 06:42:56 <cehteh> the phone app queries it
Jan 03 06:43:25 <cehteh> maybe it even has some sleep mode where it uses much less
Jan 03 06:43:29 <ali1234> > 1uA in low power mode
Jan 03 06:43:33 <ali1234> < i mean
Jan 03 06:43:34 <cehteh> yeah
Jan 03 06:43:39 <cehteh> i expected that
Jan 03 06:43:40 <luke-jr> hm, I guess accelerometer *needs* to be constantly enabled
Jan 03 06:43:51 <luke-jr> since its data is only realtime
Jan 03 06:44:55 <cehteh> many such uCs have sleep modes which require less power than battery self-discharge
Jan 03 06:45:35 <cehteh> if its in the uA range then you can calculate how log you can hook it on a 1320mAh battery :)
Jan 03 06:46:16 <ali1234> 0x10-0x1f is "reserved" according to datasheet, but contains lots of numbers
Jan 03 06:46:22 <ali1234> almost certainly that is the calibration data
Jan 03 06:47:00 <ali1234> yeah, the driver probably puts it in sleep mode when not in use
Jan 03 06:47:15 <ali1234> maybe a bug in the driver is writing to the wrong place
Jan 03 06:47:32 <ali1234> or maybe you must refresh the calibration when going to 8G mode, and the driver isn't doing it properly
Jan 03 06:47:52 <cehteh> when does it go to 8G?
Jan 03 06:48:00 <cehteh> mine got stuck without playing around
Jan 03 06:48:10 <ali1234> dunno
Jan 03 06:48:20 <villager> it never goes into 8G by itself... and I only tried it to see where the miscalibration was, and it didn't change the calibration in any way to change mode
Jan 03 06:49:00 <ali1234> i guess you can't reproduce it then?
Jan 03 06:49:15 <villager> well, I did remove the battery, so it's fine now...
Jan 03 06:49:28 <ali1234> if it happens again i would be interested in some dumps
Jan 03 06:49:37 <villager> I'm just saying what experiments I did while it was busted
Jan 03 06:49:50 <cehteh> i like the way the driver on my laptop works
Jan 03 06:49:54 <cehteh> cat /sys/devices/platform/lis3lv02d/position >/sys/devices/platform/lis3lv02d/calibrate
Jan 03 06:50:01 <cehteh> ... easy or? :)
Jan 03 06:50:38 <villager> well, if it happens again, I'll let you know
Jan 03 06:50:46 <cehteh> well wont help if the device is stuck .. maybe that 'calibration' is a driver side offset
Jan 03 06:51:14 <villager> cehteh: well it wasn't actually stuck, just miscalibrated way outside the normal-scale 2G range
Jan 03 06:51:42 <cehteh> villager: yeah same here prolly i didnt investigated it properly, just reset it
Jan 03 06:51:43 <villager> it's hardware-side for sure, the driver doesn't add any offset
Jan 03 06:52:46 * cehteh just needs some code to get very basic orientation information face_up, face_down, landscape, portrait, seascape, upside_down
Jan 03 06:53:00 <cehteh> thats really trivial :)
Jan 03 06:53:59 <cehteh> are there commandline clients for dbus? .. for prototyping this app i dont want to do C stuff yet
Jan 03 06:54:16 <ali1234> just read it from the /sys
Jan 03 06:54:28 <cehteh> nah need it for other things
Jan 03 06:54:33 <ali1234> there's dbus-send if you insist
Jan 03 06:54:40 <cehteh> yes
Jan 03 06:54:44 <cehteh> thats what i need
Jan 03 06:54:57 <cehteh> found it :) thanks
Jan 03 06:55:34 <cehteh> hacking the prototype in lua together later shifting to C then
Jan 03 06:56:26 <ali1234> hmm the driver has a "samples" param
Jan 03 06:56:29 <cehteh> mhm something like lsdbus ?
Jan 03 06:59:15 <cehteh> mhm .. dbus-monitor ..
Jan 03 06:59:56 <villager> ali1234: the linux driver can average several successive samples
Jan 03 07:00:02 <ali1234> yes
Jan 03 07:00:21 <ali1234> the example code on the wiki does averaging in software
Jan 03 07:00:30 <ali1234> but that is unecessary then
Jan 03 07:00:54 <villager> if you're okay with telling the linux driver to do it globally, I suppose
Jan 03 07:01:25 <villager> it might update less often when the driver does it, perhaps?
Jan 03 07:02:36 <cehteh> yes i just tried .. becomes sluggish it doesnt steadily interpolate
Jan 03 07:02:42 <ali1234> it doesn't "update"
Jan 03 07:02:48 <ali1234> it is polled
Jan 03 07:02:49 <villager> guess not
Jan 03 07:02:56 <ali1234> just that the value won't change so often
Jan 03 07:02:57 <villager> polling takes longer then
Jan 03 07:03:02 <ali1234> however you can change the update rate too
Jan 03 07:03:20 <ali1234> no, should take the same time
Jan 03 07:03:27 <cehteh> thats what i am going to do .. new_value = (old_value + current) /2
Jan 03 07:04:03 <ali1234> argh, no
Jan 03 07:04:07 <ali1234> use a rolling buffer
Jan 03 07:04:12 <ifreq> moin
Jan 03 07:04:21 <cehteh> really? .. doesnt look like that when i try
Jan 03 07:04:36 <ali1234> all depends how the driver is implemented
Jan 03 07:04:36 <cehteh> setting sample to 100 gives slow updates
Jan 03 07:04:40 <cehteh> yes sure
Jan 03 07:05:05 <cehteh> having AccDisplay running and echoing diferent values there
Jan 03 07:05:15 <cehteh> with 100 it becomes quite slughish
Jan 03 07:06:08 <villager> ali1234: the driver source code says it reads "samples" times whenever someone tries to read "coord", not before... so I guess polling does take longer, but there's no such as an "update", hmm
Jan 03 07:06:49 <cehteh> villager: proof by trying .. you are right :)
Jan 03 07:07:00 <ali1234> that sucks
Jan 03 07:07:06 <ali1234> but i guess it saves memory?
Jan 03 07:07:10 <ali1234> like 10 bytes
Jan 03 07:07:11 <cehteh> and i doubt it makes sense to add rolling buffers on the kernel level. ..
Jan 03 07:07:13 <villager> I suppose
Jan 03 07:07:20 <bear> FUCK YOU SOFT BITCHES WE GO HARD
Jan 03 07:07:38 <ali1234> O_o
Jan 03 07:07:58 <villager> but the dbus daemon thing probably reads the coord regularly and its "update time" probably remains fixed
Jan 03 07:08:01 <bear> 
DCC SEND "поɦʞɔпɟ" 0 0 0
Jan 03 07:08:03 <cehteh> so leave it at 1 and be happy
Jan 03 07:08:14 <ali1234> !ops
Jan 03 07:08:35 <villager> so if you set samples really high, just use dbus instead of reading from /sys
Jan 03 07:09:35 <ali1234> there's no reason to ever set samples really high though
Jan 03 07:09:37 <villager> though I guess it might slow the whole device down if the kernel is busy-waiting on i2c, not sure if it does with this kernel
Jan 03 07:09:48 * cehteh only plans to poll it every 30 secs or so .. 
Jan 03 07:10:04 <ali1234> even smoothing is mostly pointless
Jan 03 07:10:23 <cehteh> there is a lot noise
Jan 03 07:10:33 <luke-jr> villager: Linux is preemptive...
Jan 03 07:10:37 <ali1234> but the noise is random, so it cancels itself out over time
Jan 03 07:10:55 <cehteh> but like i shown above, just average it with the previsous sample should be ok
Jan 03 07:11:27 <luke-jr> villager: also, things like keyboard and touchscreen are on i2c, so it needs to be polled pretty often anyway
Jan 03 07:11:27 <cehteh> if you want to hack on the driver you may try that and report :)
Jan 03 07:11:40 <cehteh> i am doing that in userland
Jan 03 07:12:03 <ali1234> do not do this: 0.5*(old_value+new_value); old_value = new_value;
Jan 03 07:12:14 <cehteh> since i poll once every 30 seconds i only want to flat out spikes
Jan 03 07:12:29 <villager> luke-jr: I thought it only preempts areas that are "safe" to be preempted, and that loop I'm not sure is allowed, since it's holding a mutex
Jan 03 07:12:45 <ali1234> wait, do do that
Jan 03 07:12:53 <cehteh> thats what i saied
Jan 03 07:13:07 <cehteh> [08:03] <cehteh> thats what i am going to do .. new_value = (old_value + current) /2
Jan 03 07:13:54 <ali1234> then old_value = current
Jan 03 07:13:55 <villager> luke-jr: but if it does, then great
Jan 03 07:14:00 <ali1234> not old_value = new_value
Jan 03 07:14:01 <cehteh> yes
Jan 03 07:14:52 <cehteh> well its not critical i want to find out if the device is in motion (delta above threshold) and the general orientation of the device
Jan 03 07:14:54 <cehteh> thats all
Jan 03 07:15:53 <villager> I don't think the accelerometer can tell if the device is in motion, if it happens to be in inertial motion
Jan 03 07:16:13 <cehteh> doesnt matter
Jan 03 07:16:31 <villager> you'd have to sample it fairly often to detect when it is pushed into motion I suppose
Jan 03 07:16:46 <cehteh> and any car, bike, hike or whatever gives enough dervitation compared to laying on the table
Jan 03 07:16:56 <cehteh> nah once every 30 sec :)
Jan 03 07:17:25 <ali1234> not if you smooth it all out
Jan 03 07:17:26 <cehteh> even vibrations on a plane or train should sufficently detectable
Jan 03 07:17:47 <cehteh> maybe i do 3-5 samples (in a fast rate) every 30 secs
Jan 03 07:17:56 <ali1234> on a plane would be really hard unless you're doing a barrel roll or something
Jan 03 07:17:59 <cehteh> thats really something i figure out
Jan 03 07:18:17 <cehteh> and it doesnt need to be 100% exact .. just guessing
Jan 03 07:18:57 <cehteh> its just one part of the program to query its environment .. gps (if on), brightness and maybe proximity sensor will be used too
Jan 03 07:19:14 <cehteh> and its not only about moving .. also time and other things
Jan 03 07:19:38 <cehteh> extendable later, whatever looks to be useful
Jan 03 07:19:57 <Remosi> luke-jr, but theres no documented/supported way of doing it? Ok.
Jan 03 07:20:37 <luke-jr> Remosi: no clue
Jan 03 08:20:15 <shinkamui> just an fyi
Jan 03 08:20:22 <shinkamui> I got blender built, copied and running
Jan 03 08:20:27 <shinkamui> but it is SLOW as molassas
Jan 03 08:20:41 <shinkamui> gonna have to do some work on getting a better display system
Jan 03 08:20:50 <shinkamui> I wonder how blenderCE achieved usable speeds
Jan 03 08:21:33 <arachnist> may i just ask: what for? ;)
Jan 03 08:21:49 <arachnist> or just for the sake of a hack?
Jan 03 08:21:59 <dmj7261> slow as in the gui is non responsive?
Jan 03 08:22:06 <shinkamui> yea
Jan 03 08:22:15 <dmj7261> that's the worst kind of slow
Jan 03 08:22:22 <shinkamui> each click registers about 5 seconds later
Jan 03 08:22:28 <shinkamui> definately a config problem
Jan 03 08:22:34 <shinkamui> but I've never used blender 2.5
Jan 03 08:22:40 <shinkamui> anyway, Ill look into it now
Jan 03 08:22:44 <dmj7261> hmm
Jan 03 08:22:47 <shinkamui> uploading a screenie
Jan 03 08:22:54 <dmj7261> :D
Jan 03 08:22:57 <arachnist> and how doest the gui fit at all on the n900?
Jan 03 08:23:15 <arachnist> s/doest/does/
Jan 03 08:23:15 <infobot> arachnist meant: and how does the gui fit at all on the n900?
Jan 03 08:23:16 <shinkamui> fits fine
Jan 03 08:23:23 <shinkamui> plenty of resolution
Jan 03 08:23:24 <jX> you fold it inhalf thenit fits fine
Jan 03 08:23:25 <dmj7261> arachnist: wvga blender on desktop http://imagebin.org/77910
Jan 03 08:23:35 <shinkamui> blender is fully useable on a vga device
Jan 03 08:23:50 <shinkamui> making this much better
Jan 03 08:24:22 <jX> I lost my stylus already. :(
Jan 03 08:24:32 <dmj7261> shinkamui: is it fullscreen or windowed?
Jan 03 08:24:42 <dmj7261> Does it get better after a minute?
Jan 03 08:24:53 <dmj7261> jX: :(
Jan 03 08:24:53 <shinkamui> http://www.flickr.com/photos/22138919@N05/4240222604/
Jan 03 08:25:05 <shinkamui> takes almost a full minute.5 to start fully
Jan 03 08:25:42 <shinkamui> no
Jan 03 08:25:44 <shinkamui> but whats funny
Jan 03 08:25:51 <dmj7261> that wants me to log in
Jan 03 08:25:54 <shinkamui> cpu rarely spikes above 29% for blender
Jan 03 08:26:03 <shinkamui> hmm
Jan 03 08:26:04 <shinkamui> hold on
Jan 03 08:26:51 <shinkamui> fixed
Jan 03 08:26:53 <shinkamui> made it public
Jan 03 08:26:55 <shinkamui> my bad
Jan 03 08:26:58 <arachnist> how?
Jan 03 08:27:14 <dmj7261> sweet
Jan 03 08:27:16 <shinkamui> pulseaudio is using 54%
Jan 03 08:27:21 <shinkamui> I may have to disable openal too
Jan 03 08:27:28 <shinkamui> its using pulseaudio by default
Jan 03 08:27:45 <dmj7261> yeah, disable that, not much use for audio on n900 for blender
Jan 03 08:28:08 <shinkamui> can you see the screenie no
Jan 03 08:28:09 <shinkamui> w
Jan 03 08:28:10 <dmj7261> Try plugging headphones in and see what happens
Jan 03 08:28:42 <dmj7261> I would recommend full screen for blender when you get the chance
Jan 03 08:32:22 <shinkamui> as soon as I get moderate results, I will definately do that
Jan 03 08:33:23 <dmj7261> If pulse is eating half your audio, openal could make the difference.
Jan 03 08:33:34 <dmj7261> What were your results with headphones on?
Jan 03 08:33:57 <arachnist> still, i'm wonderwing what's the use case for blender on a handheld device :>
Jan 03 08:34:51 <anders_gud> all sorts, painting - video editing..
Jan 03 08:35:03 <anders_gud> game engine
Jan 03 08:35:04 <arachnist> rendering stuff would probably drain the battery and make quite a bit of cpu load
Jan 03 08:35:10 <dmj7261> basic 3d modelling
Jan 03 08:36:04 <shinkamui> ok, I removed the game engine and openal, rebuilding
Jan 03 08:36:18 <anders_gud> shinkamui did you build with ffmpeg?
Jan 03 08:37:14 <shinkamui> nope
Jan 03 08:37:16 <shinkamui> removed it
Jan 03 08:37:39 <anders_gud> oh - try that It's most useful..
Jan 03 08:38:13 <anders_gud> what was the missing Python.h issue?
Jan 03 08:38:14 <shinkamui> for blender?
Jan 03 08:38:17 <shinkamui> fixed
Jan 03 08:38:23 <shinkamui> had to build python 3.1.1
Jan 03 08:38:28 <shinkamui> and link off of that
Jan 03 08:38:35 <anders_gud> yes audio and video import export features
Jan 03 08:38:42 <shinkamui> as for ffmpeg, I think its only used by blender to create rendered output in specific formats
Jan 03 08:39:33 <anders_gud> with ffmpeg enabled it's the best video editors on linux
Jan 03 08:39:36 <shinkamui> I don't see anyone burning through their battery to try and render a scene on the mobile, but if they want to, the default low quality renderer is there
Jan 03 08:40:09 <shinkamui> and I told jebba I would use his ffmpeg at a later time
Jan 03 08:40:12 <dmj7261> We'll have a render farm of a thousand n900s
Jan 03 08:41:20 <shinkamui> lol
Jan 03 08:41:28 <shinkamui> that would be quite creative
Jan 03 08:41:29 <anders_gud> There is a OpenGl OpenGLES wrapper somwhere
Jan 03 08:41:33 <shinkamui> anyway, lets see how this works out
Jan 03 08:41:52 <dmj7261> shinkamui: I can almost guarantee you that it will be much faster without openal
Jan 03 08:41:56 <shinkamui> I may need to rebuild mesa to improve performance
Jan 03 08:42:10 <shinkamui> I chose to build using the dri driver and swrast
Jan 03 08:42:22 <dmj7261> I get 50% cpu usage with openal on my Core 2 Duo desktop.
Jan 03 08:42:33 <shinkamui> lol
Jan 03 08:42:42 <shinkamui> 56% pulseaudio when blender runs
Jan 03 08:42:49 <shinkamui> spiking the cpu to 99%
Jan 03 08:42:59 <shinkamui> i hope thats the first and biggest problem
Jan 03 08:43:41 <shinkamui> tomorrow, I need some help setting up sbrsh
Jan 03 08:43:51 <shinkamui> because this is a slow ass testing procedure I have atm
Jan 03 08:44:01 <dmj7261> When I set it to !openal cpu goes down to 0-4%
Jan 03 08:44:23 <shinkamui> windows?
Jan 03 08:44:31 <dmj7261> No, Ubuntu 9.10
Jan 03 08:44:33 <anders_gud> for OpenGL 2.0 to OpenGLES conversion:
Jan 03 08:44:35 <anders_gud> http://forum.openhandhelds.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=884
Jan 03 08:44:50 <shinkamui> hardware acceleration would be nice
Jan 03 08:45:12 <shinkamui> but replacing mesa with a wrapper driver might not be too easy for me
Jan 03 08:45:32 <dmj7261> one step at a time
Jan 03 08:46:01 <dmj7261> If you get blender running at more than 10fps (hopefully more) I'll be pleased as punch
Jan 03 08:46:07 <shinkamui> ha ha
Jan 03 08:46:09 <shinkamui> boot time
Jan 03 08:46:10 <anders_gud> now I have to buy a n900 :-(
Jan 03 08:46:11 <shinkamui> 5 seconds
Jan 03 08:46:13 <shinkamui> :)
Jan 03 08:46:21 <shinkamui> no more openal made a HUGE difference
Jan 03 08:46:30 <anders_gud> Not easy in Sweden
Jan 03 08:46:32 <shinkamui> yea
Jan 03 08:46:32 <dmj7261> anders_gud: You'll get no pity from me
Jan 03 08:46:36 <shinkamui> its useable now
Jan 03 08:46:40 <dmj7261> hooray!
Jan 03 08:46:44 <shinkamui> Ill make a quick video and then to bed
Jan 03 08:46:52 <dmj7261> okay.
Jan 03 08:46:55 <shinkamui> we'll do fullscreen and try and package a prelim tomorrow
Jan 03 08:46:59 * dmj7261 waits eagerly!
Jan 03 08:47:04 <anders_gud> the finns never forgave us 300 yrs of oppression
Jan 03 08:47:05 <shinkamui> I can sent you the tarball
Jan 03 08:47:09 <shinkamui> but the libs aren't packed yet
Jan 03 08:47:14 * dmj7261 will test for you
Jan 03 08:47:37 <shinkamui> ok G, Ill put some stuff up on my site first thing in the AM
Jan 03 08:49:03 <dmj7261> shinkamui: Are you familiar with Durian?
Jan 03 08:49:24 <shinkamui> no
Jan 03 08:49:27 <shinkamui> whats durian
Jan 03 08:49:52 <dmj7261> It's the open movie project the Blender Foundation is doing.
Jan 03 08:50:07 <dmj7261> http://durian.blender.org/
Jan 03 08:51:01 <dmj7261> One of the goals is to make Blender 2.5 production ready
Jan 03 08:51:21 <dmj7261> They should totally hear about blender running on the n900
Jan 03 08:57:11 <shinkamui> sweet
Jan 03 09:03:09 <shinkamui> http://www.youtube.com/v/SriTyCtY1mE&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0
Jan 03 09:03:13 <shinkamui> quick video
Jan 03 09:03:19 <shinkamui> may take a few minutes before its available
Jan 03 09:03:22 <shinkamui> ok, good night guys
Jan 03 09:03:42 <simula> gnight
Jan 03 09:08:53 <ceh900> testin the virtual keyboard
Jan 03 09:09:17 <dmj7261> cool
Jan 03 09:09:47 <ceh900> heh not really
Jan 03 09:10:24 <dmj7261> shinkamui made a cool video
Jan 03 09:11:13 <ceh900> how do you complete a word? no cusor buttons there
Jan 03 09:11:31 <dmj7261> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SriTyCtY1mE
Jan 03 09:11:50 <ceh900> blender?
Jan 03 09:12:09 <dmj7261> yep, he has been porting blender to the n900
Jan 03 09:12:36 <ceh900> xchat doesnt start a browser
Jan 03 09:13:05 <ceh900> ba
Jan 03 09:13:18 <ceh900> ah long click
Jan 03 09:16:06 <ceh900> haha, sorry but manipulating the blender ui with a stylus looks a bit retarded. kudos for the work anyways :)
Jan 03 09:16:57 <dmj7261> I think it could be kinda nice for simple modelling.
Jan 03 09:17:37 <dmj7261> I'm not going to make a sequel to Big Buck Bunny on it, but I might make a little spaceship or chair.
Jan 03 09:18:04 <ceh900> not sure if there are better things for that
Jan 03 09:19:24 <RST38h> Ah, a perfect example of why I hate Youtube
Jan 03 09:50:12 <Ceron> 09:08:00 [freenode] Warning: Port sent with DCC request is a lowport (0, unknown) - this isn't normal. It is possible the address/port is faked (or maybe someone is just trying to bypass firewall)
Jan 03 09:50:45 <Ceron> was is this?
Jan 03 09:51:07 <PaulFertser> Ceron: some loosy attempt at exploiting irc users
Jan 03 09:51:29 <Ceron> i should not fear it right
Jan 03 09:51:32 <Ceron> im using irssi? :P
Jan 03 09:52:10 <Ceron> DCC SEND from bear [0.0.0.0 port 0]: поɦʞɔпɟ [0B bytes] requested in channel #maemo
Jan 03 09:52:13 <PaulFertser> Ceron: i guess right :) btw, why irssi and not weechat? I'm an irssi user too but weechat looks more powerful.
Jan 03 09:52:42 <Ceron> how so does it look more powerful?
Jan 03 09:52:50 <Ceron> irssi has all you need :)
Jan 03 09:53:02 <Ceron> i dont need name lists and stuff like that
Jan 03 09:53:32 <Ceron> n900 res is good for irssi also
Jan 03 09:54:14 <PaulFertser> Ceron: i'd like to have incremental search in buffers
Jan 03 09:55:16 <PaulFertser> Ceron: btw, if you by any chance know how to solve the problem that irssi always indents messages and that is not fun when you have a small screen and a big font, please tell me.
Jan 03 09:55:26 <cehteh> with proper config, xchat is also nice :P
Jan 03 10:00:14 <denix0> what about IRC connection manager (i.e. telepathy-idle)? is it useful?
Jan 03 10:01:10 <cehteh> you cant join channels with it only privmsg
Jan 03 10:01:40 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jan 03 10:01:42 <denix0> ah, and I thought I was just stupid... :)
Jan 03 10:01:56 <cehteh> and it has problems that it doesnt properly disconnect sometimes .. then it cant reconnect because the nick is in use
Jan 03 10:02:31 <cehteh> so if you want to use irc as IM replacement it has some limited usability .. but its not really irc
Jan 03 10:05:25 <denix0> speaking of telepathy plugins - twitter plugin can never sign-in for me. any pointers?
Jan 03 10:06:18 <cehteh> mhm my device doesnt go to C4 .. prolly because xchat is running?
Jan 03 10:08:13 <cehteh> .. lets see
Jan 03 10:09:01 <denix0> how do you check the state?
Jan 03 10:09:09 * RST38h seems to have optified xchat
Jan 03 10:09:13 <cehteh> powertop
Jan 03 10:09:18 <RST38h> Any other requests before I upload this version?
Jan 03 10:09:51 <cehteh> hum .. yes a lot .. but i guess you dont mean that :)
Jan 03 10:09:58 <denix0> RST38h: and I just updated to 2.8.6-maemo13... :)
Jan 03 10:10:01 <RST38h> Well, depends on what they are
Jan 03 10:10:07 <RST38h> denix: Stay with it for a while
Jan 03 10:10:19 <cehteh> well do you know how to make the scrollbar wider/finger friendly?
Jan 03 10:10:57 * denix0 testing if -maemo13 also crashes while saving config...
Jan 03 10:11:26 <cehteh> and i would try to add a 250ms sleep into the main event loop, then messages pile up and are processed in one rush, less wakes and turnarounds for the processor
Jan 03 10:11:53 <luke-jr> so um
Jan 03 10:11:54 <cehteh> (rather configureable sleep of course)
Jan 03 10:11:55 <denix0> yes, it still crashes... :(
Jan 03 10:11:59 <luke-jr> anyone here have experience dealing with scammers?
Jan 03 10:12:12 <cehteh> what kind of?
Jan 03 10:12:27 <luke-jr> online store
Jan 03 10:12:28 <RST38h> maemo13 does not crash when saving config
Jan 03 10:12:45 <luke-jr> in particular, is there any reason it's a bad idea to give my address?
Jan 03 10:12:55 <RST38h> centeh: I would rather reduce the number of messages instead
Jan 03 10:13:04 <cehteh> i have the 'current' version .. is that maemo13? .. then i can say it works for me
Jan 03 10:13:16 <cehteh> RST38h: you can hardly do that :)
Jan 03 10:13:21 <RST38h> centeh: Why?
Jan 03 10:13:29 <cehteh> well tcp-cork
Jan 03 10:13:32 <cehteh> eh?
Jan 03 10:13:37 <arachnist> luke-jr: if you know they're scammers, why would you want to give them you address?
Jan 03 10:13:42 <luke-jr> arachnist: I don't.
Jan 03 10:13:52 <luke-jr> they just are suspicious
Jan 03 10:14:04 <cehteh> and yes, my device doesnt go to C4 when xchat is running
Jan 03 10:14:11 <luke-jr> but where else can you get a N900 for under $400? <.<
Jan 03 10:14:18 <denix0> oops, my bad, you're right - it just closes the preferences dialog... :)
Jan 03 10:14:39 <RST38h> centeh: we do not chat that much here =)
Jan 03 10:15:17 <Remosi> hrm, what gtk widget does the IM app use for displaying things?  is it just a canvas that's been drawn onto? or something else?
Jan 03 10:15:23 <cehteh> RST38h: well ..
Jan 03 10:15:35 <luke-jr> ... so is there any harm? :x
Jan 03 10:15:42 <cehteh> you can always 'not' use it .. but thats not the point
Jan 03 10:19:15 <cehteh> test again
Jan 03 10:20:26 <cehteh> mhm .. no C4 when xchat is running
Jan 03 10:20:54 <cehteh> RST38h: where is the source available for the maemo version? maybe i give it a try
Jan 03 10:22:07 <flux> cehteh, curiously I decided to check and indeed my device doesn't go to C4 either, I guess I need to start stopping programs one at a time.. mafw-dbus-wrapp is at the top of activity list, though
Jan 03 10:22:13 <flux> (no xchat here)
Jan 03 10:22:32 <cehteh> flux: battery or connected to the charger/usb?
Jan 03 10:22:37 <flux> battery
Jan 03 10:22:39 <RST38h> centeh: Extras-Devel
Jan 03 10:22:45 <cehteh> or playing music or anything else?
Jan 03 10:22:52 <RST38h> centeh: You may want to wait for the optified version for a few days though
Jan 03 10:22:52 <flux> nope
Jan 03 10:22:55 <luke-jr> http://pastebin.ca/1736039 <-- chat
Jan 03 10:22:58 <flux> the screen is blank
Jan 03 10:23:21 <flux> it's on another room. it might be running a web browser, though, some activity in it could cause that I suppose
Jan 03 10:24:02 <RST38h> luke: Some Chinese spammer?
Jan 03 10:24:25 <luke-jr> RST38h: found his online store with Google
Jan 03 10:25:15 <cehteh> luke-jr: just /ignore
Jan 03 10:25:26 <luke-jr> cehteh: but I want to buy N900 from him :/
Jan 03 10:25:41 <cehteh> haha ... then send him as much money you like
Jan 03 10:26:01 <RST38h> luke: I wouldn't...really...
Jan 03 10:26:17 <RST38h> luke: In fact, I would not buy anything from any company that has no phone number
Jan 03 10:26:28 <luke-jr> IIRC someone who looked found a UK #
Jan 03 10:26:36 <cehteh> luke-jr: cash on delivery might be an option .. but well he can still send you a brick in a n900 case
Jan 03 10:26:40 <ifreq> do you always check the number RST38h ?
Jan 03 10:26:46 <ifreq> i rather buy from company which has paypal
Jan 03 10:26:52 <cehteh> or stolenn/damaged/non warranty devices
Jan 03 10:26:55 <ifreq> as paypal protects it buyers
Jan 03 10:27:07 <flux> cehteh, but where would the salesman find suchs a custom-made small brick?!
Jan 03 10:27:11 <luke-jr> ifreq: he takes PayPal, but only eCheck
Jan 03 10:27:50 <flux> luke-jr, have you tried googling for the company name?
Jan 03 10:28:18 <cehteh> RST38h: dunno if you agree .. but that the processor doesnt go to sleep while xchat is running worries me a bit :P
Jan 03 10:28:19 <Remosi> hrm, I bought mine through TradeMe (NZ's equivilent of ebay), found a seller witha  good reputation that specialised in importing US phones, and bought it from them
Jan 03 10:28:20 <ifreq> hmm okay
Jan 03 10:28:57 <luke-jr> I found the store name on ebay
Jan 03 10:29:02 <luke-jr> closed account, doesn't say why
Jan 03 10:29:06 <flux> :)
Jan 03 10:29:07 * ifreq bought phone from flagstore, they alvays have some spares
Jan 03 10:29:07 <luke-jr> lots of good feedback in 2004
Jan 03 10:29:38 <ifreq> anything can happen in 6 years
Jan 03 10:29:42 <ifreq> after
Jan 03 10:29:46 <luke-jr> heh
Jan 03 10:30:04 <luke-jr> but seriously, $320 for N900, buy 3 get 1 free
Jan 03 10:30:11 <luke-jr> if real I can't pass that up!
Jan 03 10:31:17 <luke-jr> maybe I'll tell him I really can't do it except on credit card because I want to resell 3 of them... <.<
Jan 03 10:31:29 <luke-jr> credit card can be disputed :)
Jan 03 10:32:05 <ifreq> luke-jr: no one can sell for 320usd
Jan 03 10:32:08 <ifreq> :)
Jan 03 10:32:11 <luke-jr> ...
Jan 03 10:32:58 <ifreq> i wish all the best for the seller
Jan 03 10:33:08 <ifreq> in next life
Jan 03 10:33:16 <flux> and this is why, ladies and gentlemen, scams works so great :P
Jan 03 10:33:46 <ifreq> cheap, ferebies, guaranteed
Jan 03 10:33:53 <ifreq> freebies*
Jan 03 10:36:27 <RST38h> centeh: yes, it worries me as well.
Jan 03 10:36:36 <RST38h> centeh: there is probably a timer ticking
Jan 03 10:36:48 <ceh901> tryin rcirc emacs
Jan 03 10:37:03 <luke-jr> im in ur cpu
Jan 03 10:37:05 <luke-jr> tickin ur timer
Jan 03 10:37:14 <RST38h> centeh: Ir maybe it busy-waits on a non-blocking socket
Jan 03 10:37:31 <cehteh> yes i had that before with the xchat plugin stuff
Jan 03 10:37:45 <cehteh> disabling all unused plugins (perl, python etc) fixed it
Jan 03 10:38:05 <cehteh> well doesnt look like busy waits, it doesnt satuate the cpu
Jan 03 10:38:47 <cehteh> or maybe stupid waits with a select with a very short timeout? no idea
Jan 03 10:38:48 <Meizirkki> Short video of Mer 0.17 on Touch Book: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yApkMMlrjRA
Jan 03 10:39:55 <RST38h> ok, let us take a look
Jan 03 10:40:31 <luke-jr> hum
Jan 03 10:40:39 <ceh901> ping  test
Jan 03 10:40:46 <luke-jr> so really no chance this is legit? :(
Jan 03 10:40:54 <denix0> hmm, touchbook's resistive screen is very resistive... :)
Jan 03 10:42:11 <cehteh> RST38bis: are there any plugins enabled/loaded by default?
Jan 03 10:42:56 <Macer> 01:08 [freenode] DCC SEND from bear [0.0.0.0 port 0]: поɦʞɔпɟ [0B bytes] requested in channel #maemo
Jan 03 10:43:06 <cehteh> mhm or is it just the network activity which keeps the kernel running?
Jan 03 10:43:14 <ifreq> he was k-lined after
Jan 03 10:43:15 <cehteh> Macer: he got klined
Jan 03 10:43:22 <Macer> have to give him credit for the upsidedown fuckyou
Jan 03 10:43:22 <Macer> hahah
Jan 03 10:44:05 <Macer> is that like some 1990 mirc exploit or something?
Jan 03 10:44:11 <cehteh> yes
Jan 03 10:44:13 <Macer> :)
Jan 03 10:44:23 <cehteh> well iirc xchat :)
Jan 03 10:44:28 <cehteh> but old and fixed
Jan 03 10:44:45 <Macer> heh
Jan 03 10:44:50 <RST38h> centeh: doing gettimeofday/poll in a loop
Jan 03 10:44:53 <luke-jr> Macer: not mirc
Jan 03 10:44:55 <Macer> i was always curious because every now and then you see someone doing that
Jan 03 10:44:57 <cehteh> RST38h: ah .. having irc running in emacs rcirc doesnt give C4 either
Jan 03 10:44:59 <luke-jr> nor xchat
Jan 03 10:45:07 <Macer> luke-jr: yeah? what then?
Jan 03 10:45:11 <luke-jr> it's an exploit common in firewalls and SOHO routers
Jan 03 10:45:20 <luke-jr> and while fixed, often non-updated in the latter
Jan 03 10:45:36 <Macer> luke-jr: what does it do exactly?
Jan 03 10:45:48 <luke-jr> Macer:  the firewall thinks it's a worm, and closes the connection
Jan 03 10:46:00 <Macer> closes a connection to 0.0.0.0?
Jan 03 10:46:02 <Macer> :)
Jan 03 10:46:07 <Macer> that would be interesting haha
Jan 03 10:46:08 <luke-jr> closes the IRC connection
Jan 03 10:46:17 <Macer> oh
Jan 03 10:46:21 <arachnist> uhm
Jan 03 10:46:36 <arachnist> wasn't that a hack for some wireless routers?
Jan 03 10:46:43 <luke-jr> that's what I just said
Jan 03 10:46:52 <Termana> Useful. As long as your trying to knock someone off. You didn't piss anyone off did you Macer?
Jan 03 10:46:59 <luke-jr> lol
Jan 03 10:47:04 <Macer> Termana: doubt it was just me
Jan 03 10:47:07 <luke-jr> Termana: the guy did it to the whole channel
Jan 03 10:47:09 <Macer> he did it to all of maemo ;)
Jan 03 10:47:15 <cehteh> RST38bis: thats why i'd suggest to add a configureable (maybe adaptive) timeout in the event loop
Jan 03 10:47:25 <RST38h> centeh: Could you try something for me?
Jan 03 10:47:27 <Termana> oh, must be an android user then
Jan 03 10:47:30 <cehteh> possibly
Jan 03 10:47:43 <luke-jr> lol
Jan 03 10:47:47 <Macer> i was just curious why someone tries that every now and then
Jan 03 10:47:50 <RST38h> centeh: Disconnect from all servers and see if it lets you go into C4
Jan 03 10:47:52 <Macer> Termana: haha. i could see that ;)
Jan 03 10:48:06 <Macer> i know i pissed a lot of them off
Jan 03 10:48:23 <cehteh> RST38h: done that already .. yes it does
Jan 03 10:48:25 <Termana> :D
Jan 03 10:48:31 <luke-jr> so do I give this maybe-scammer my $320 and blame Nokia if the deal goes bad? <.<
Jan 03 10:48:48 <Termana> luke-jr - what are you doing?
Jan 03 10:49:01 <luke-jr> Termana: http://pastebin.ca/1736039
Jan 03 10:49:08 <ceh901> now i am only connected with emacs
Jan 03 10:49:46 <RST38bis> centeh: ok so it is the connection thing
Jan 03 10:50:05 <cehteh> yes possibly some timers on the tcp stack whatever
Jan 03 10:50:43 <cehteh> but maybe this can be improved by some options on the socket .. tcp-cork or so ..
Jan 03 10:51:06 <Termana> luke-jr - aren't most places selling them for $500? I doubt this guy could knock off $180 just for the hell of it
Jan 03 10:51:34 <cehteh> (or timers?)
Jan 03 10:51:39 <ifreq> he cant termana
Jan 03 10:51:46 <ifreq> in no way
Jan 03 10:51:54 <ifreq> okay then he can if ther stolen :P
Jan 03 10:53:05 <RST38h>         set_nonblocking (serv->sok);
Jan 03 10:53:06 <RST38h>         serv->iotag = fe_input_add (serv->sok, FIA_READ|FIA_EX, server_read, se
Jan 03 10:53:06 <luke-jr> yet Nokia can just give them to people? :p
Jan 03 10:53:13 <RST38h> centeh: I think this may be it
Jan 03 10:54:13 <RST38h> tag = g_io_add_watch (channel, type, (GIOFunc) func, data);
Jan 03 10:55:34 <Termana> luke-jr - Nokia LOANED them to people IIRC
Jan 03 10:55:49 <RST38h> centeh: Added with G_IO_PRI
Jan 03 10:55:52 <cehteh> i just wonder why emacs behaves similar
Jan 03 10:56:17 <cehteh> btw cehteh is my nick not centeh :)
Jan 03 10:57:41 <denix0> RST38h: no tab completion for nicks? :)
Jan 03 10:58:03 <wazd_e63> Heya all
Jan 03 10:58:18 <Stskeeps> heya wazd
Jan 03 10:59:42 <wazd_e63> Stskeeps, how's it going?
Jan 03 11:00:30 <RST38h> denix: there is tab completion, do not remember the key
Jan 03 11:00:33 <RST38h> wazd moo
Jan 03 11:00:51 <RST38h> cehteh: Ok, here is the story
Jan 03 11:01:00 <denix0> RST38h: is it tab?
Jan 03 11:01:08 <cehteh> :)
Jan 03 11:01:23 <RST38h> cehteh: Once you connect to the server, it adds the socket to the list of sockets glib waits on and tells it to wake up on any priority data (whatever it means)
Jan 03 11:01:52 <RST38h> cehteh: At which point, main loop probably starts exiting all the time, hence no power save
Jan 03 11:02:28 <user900> now with erc
Jan 03 11:03:03 <cehteh> there is no priority data in IRC iirc? ...
Jan 03 11:03:15 <cehteh> dunno the newer rfc's
Jan 03 11:03:31 <Termana> are you bullshitting me? anything i say is priority data
Jan 03 11:03:35 <RST38h> cehteh: this is what xchat passes to glib anyway
Jan 03 11:03:35 <Termana> :P
Jan 03 11:04:02 <cehteh> blah
Jan 03 11:05:44 <Stskeeps> wazd_e63: moving into my new office, guys living here moved out
Jan 03 11:06:55 <cehteh> RST38bis: bit strange that other clients behave similar
Jan 03 11:07:38 <cehteh> emacs erc too :P
Jan 03 11:07:51 <RST38bis> well maybe it is the result of needing low latency data connection
Jan 03 11:08:05 <Stskeeps> no priority data in irc
Jan 03 11:08:19 <Stskeeps> OOB data will mess thinsg yo\
Jan 03 11:08:21 <wazd_e63> rst38h, Heya
Jan 03 11:08:39 <wazd_e63> Stskeeps, oh, great)
Jan 03 11:09:16 <Termana> I think what Stskeeps was trying to say on that last line was "OOB data will mess things up"
Jan 03 11:09:28 <Termana> Looks like someone has had a few too many beers
Jan 03 11:09:41 <wazd_e63> Stskeeps, 104th floor?)
Jan 03 11:10:08 <cehteh> RST38bis: little higher latency for powersaving would be acceptable imo :P
Jan 03 11:10:26 <Termana> cehteh - you need to hit tab twice
Jan 03 11:10:55 <cehteh> ..
Jan 03 11:11:24 <Termana> Your addressing the wrong nickname, though I assume its the same person.
Jan 03 11:11:51 <Termana> uhh nevermind he seems to of changed which one he was using
Jan 03 11:12:04 <Termana> on the last line anyhow
Jan 03 11:13:24 <cehteh> yeah he adapts to my tab key :)
Jan 03 11:13:31 <Stskeeps> wazd_e63: 9th
Jan 03 11:15:08 <RST38h> cehteh: I cannot find where it does the loop though
Jan 03 11:15:41 <cehteh> RST38h: i rather suspect that business on the kernel side
Jan 03 11:16:36 <cehteh> which may or may not be engaged with some hacking on tcp parameters ...
Jan 03 11:20:11 <frals> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=450999#post450999 ... beating the dead horse en masse
Jan 03 11:22:55 <Stskeeps> saw the guy on planet with MMS?
Jan 03 11:23:12 <frals> *goes to check planet*
Jan 03 11:24:52 <frals> cool
Jan 03 11:27:09 <grishnav> hey, what's the "maemo way" to bring an interface up or down with DHCP?
Jan 03 11:27:19 <grishnav> ifup/ifdown don't appear to work...
Jan 03 11:28:15 <RST38h> cehteh: I do not see any special tcp hacking in xchat code, it is very plain
Jan 03 11:28:24 <RST38h> Ok, added Ctrl+Right for nick completion
Jan 03 11:29:07 <RST38h> frals: You can safely ignore anything written by people who joined t.m.o after Sep 2009.
Jan 03 11:29:13 * cehteh remapped shift+space to tab
Jan 03 11:29:44 <cehteh> heh i joined tmo today :P
Jan 03 11:30:03 <cehteh> but still dont posted anything
Jan 03 11:30:59 <cehteh> RST38h: i dont know whats going on there, how big is the latency for the cpu to fall from C3 to C4 any idea?
Jan 03 11:31:53 <RST38h> I think I found the culprit
Jan 03 11:32:20 <cehteh> well .. i take a nap
Jan 03 11:33:22 <frals> *checks his own joindate, ah, sep 2009* ;)
Jan 03 11:35:30 <DocScrutinizer51> RST38h: you might prefer shift+right for tab. ctrl+right is too convenient for word skip forward
Jan 03 11:35:49 <felipec> I just published mafw-scrobbler; an (IMO) improved last.fm scrobbler... any developer willing to try it?
Jan 03 11:36:16 <frals> and shift right marks the text.. ;-)
Jan 03 11:36:24 <grishnav> is the best way to bring up an interface "ifconfig $1 up; udhcpc -i $1"? or is there an "ifup" like utility or init script?
Jan 03 11:37:19 <DocScrutinizer51> frals: I'm happy with shift+left for text markng
Jan 03 11:37:27 <felipec> grishnav: I use "ifup usb0" so I guess you can do something similar
Jan 03 11:37:51 <grishnav> felipec: it doesn't appear to be working for tap devices
Jan 03 11:38:54 <frals> DocScrutinizer51: good point
Jan 03 11:40:01 <DocScrutinizer51> RST38h: btw thanks for new version :-)
Jan 03 11:40:44 <felipec> grishnav: it's merely a script, isn't it?
Jan 03 11:40:58 <felipec> grishnav: you need to write it, of course
Jan 03 11:41:19 <grishnav> felipec: ifup/ifdown are binaries i believe...
Jan 03 11:43:14 <felipec> grishnav: check /etc/network
Jan 03 11:43:46 * RST38h put nick completion to Shift+Space
Jan 03 11:43:53 <RST38h> it performs no other function anyway
Jan 03 11:44:25 <DocScrutinizer51>   hmm, I wonder why I didn't do that
Jan 03 11:45:50 <grishnav> i added "inface tap0 inet dhcp"
Jan 03 11:46:06 <grishnav> I get
Jan 03 11:46:36 <DocScrutinizer51> btw to whom it may concern: after uptime of 14days device borked 1h ago. Sluggish and Xrendering always turned screen black mostly
Jan 03 11:46:39 <slonopotamus> woah
Jan 03 11:46:41 <grishnav> I get this result: http://pastebin.com/m7b61d724
Jan 03 11:46:45 <felipec> grishnav: s/inface/iface/
Jan 03 11:46:48 <slonopotamus> autocomplete!
Jan 03 11:46:56 <grishnav> yes sorry
Jan 03 11:47:01 <grishnav> I have it spelled correctly in the file
Jan 03 11:47:05 <DocScrutinizer51> seemed to recover when I managed to close last microb window
Jan 03 11:47:13 <grishnav> it _appears_ to work
Jan 03 11:47:17 <felipec> grishnav: besides, tap0 is a virtual interface, you cannot just dhcp right away, can you?
Jan 03 11:47:17 <grishnav> but the interface state isn't ever changed
Jan 03 11:47:17 <DocScrutinizer51> booted anyway
Jan 03 11:47:19 <grishnav> and dhcp isn't run
Jan 03 11:47:28 <grishnav> felipec: it's attached to openvpn
Jan 03 11:50:02 <grishnav> I use a pretty similar configuration on a variety of other machines
Jan 03 11:50:14 <grishnav> except they are /etc/init.d/net.x scritps
Jan 03 11:52:35 <grishnav> so I'm kindof at a loss
Jan 03 11:52:48 <grishnav> I can bring the interface up manually within 15 seconds of ovpn connecting and run udhcpc on it
Jan 03 11:53:02 <grishnav> (otherwise openvpn will fail to ping the server, assume something is wrong, and try to reconnect)
Jan 03 11:53:10 <grishnav> but doing it manually is a drag
Jan 03 11:53:31 <grishnav> I have a pair of small up/down scripts I wrote
Jan 03 11:53:38 <grishnav> but they'd need a fair bit of work to make them reliable
Jan 03 11:53:44 <grishnav> compensate for dhcp problems
Jan 03 11:53:48 <grishnav> rapdid connects/disconnects
Jan 03 11:53:49 <grishnav> etc.
Jan 03 11:53:57 <grishnav> all problems other people have already solved
Jan 03 11:54:12 <grishnav> either with /etc/init.d/net.* scripts or ifup/ifdown or whatever :)
Jan 03 11:54:29 <grishnav> i don't want to reinvent the wheel if I don't have to
Jan 03 11:54:43 <grishnav> especially since I'm not such a great wheelmaker
Jan 03 11:59:47 <grishnav> oh well i give up for tonight
Jan 03 11:59:48 <grishnav> cheers
Jan 03 12:02:17 <RST38h> Ok, added a 250ms wait when xchat would otherwise block
Jan 03 12:17:58 <RST38bis> well, seems to work
Jan 03 12:20:24 <RST38h> Anyone can run powertop with xchat running (and connected) to see what it looks like in the current version?
Jan 03 12:21:55 <SpeedEvil> strace -c sort-of-works ok
Jan 03 12:23:17 * RST38h still wonders whether he should penalize would_block() socket condition with a 250ms wait or maybe it does nothing useful
Jan 03 12:23:57 <RST38h> please test the current version (without the wait) with powertop and tell me what the distribution of C-states is
Jan 03 12:24:50 <SpeedEvil> I have no powertop
Jan 03 12:26:48 <SpeedEvil> It wakesup everry 0.5 seconds anyway
Jan 03 12:26:54 <RST38h> apt-get install
Jan 03 12:26:58 <SpeedEvil> The main loop seems to be a poll cll
Jan 03 12:27:01 <SpeedEvil> call
Jan 03 12:27:09 <RST38h> ok, show me the strace -c -p <pid> output
Jan 03 12:27:28 <SpeedEvil> It polls all FDs every 0.5 seconds
Jan 03 12:29:13 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/filelog
Jan 03 12:30:11 <SpeedEvil> there is no installation cancidate for powertop
Jan 03 12:30:38 <RST38h>         lagcheck_update ();                     /* every 500ms */
Jan 03 12:30:44 <RST38h> THAT? =)
Jan 03 12:31:18 <SpeedEvil> dunno
Jan 03 12:31:26 <SpeedEvil> it's polling all fds every 500ms
Jan 03 12:31:38 <SpeedEvil> However.
Jan 03 12:31:51 <SpeedEvil> I understand on this arch that wakeups may be quite lightweight.
Jan 03 12:32:08 <SpeedEvil> I need to get out of bed, and connect it to the oscilloscope for truth.
Jan 03 12:32:20 <ShadowJK> would_block() sounds evil
Jan 03 12:32:23 <SpeedEvil> I suspect if connected to 3G it utterly doesn't matter what you do.
Jan 03 12:32:31 <RST38h>         prefs.lagometer = 1;
Jan 03 12:32:38 * RST38h laughs satanically
Jan 03 12:33:12 <RST38h> Ok, this thing goes away
Jan 03 12:33:51 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil, in that bugzilla bug about random crashes, one random crash is due to the device crashing on waking up from CPU OFF state. There's a workaround to disable that, and it reduces battery life from days to <1day... So I'd say it's significant. With the September-ish edition of xchat, CPU never reaches OFF state.
Jan 03 12:35:23 <SpeedEvil> Same behavioure
Jan 03 12:35:32 <angasule> I'm alive!
Jan 03 12:35:40 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I don't care.
Jan 03 12:35:42 <RST38h> oh really?
Jan 03 12:35:51 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I want to actually measure it
Jan 03 12:36:02 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: yes - changed the lagometer to 1
Jan 03 12:36:13 <SpeedEvil> from 2 and it's still polling every 500ms
Jan 03 12:36:15 <RST38h> I am changing it to 0
Jan 03 12:36:19 <ShadowJK> I guess reply to that thread on maemo-developers asking for NEP
Jan 03 12:36:20 <RST38h> default is 1
Jan 03 12:36:30 <SpeedEvil> default is 2 here
Jan 03 12:36:36 <SpeedEvil> NEP?
Jan 03 12:36:42 <ShadowJK> Nokia Energy Profiler
Jan 03 12:36:53 <SpeedEvil> I don't care about software
Jan 03 12:36:58 <SpeedEvil> hardware
Jan 03 12:37:31 <ShadowJK> Oh you want to measure it with an external meter and not the device's own current meter?
Jan 03 12:37:37 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Jan 03 12:38:09 <SpeedEvil> Because I know that actually works, and I have no software issues like measurements causing wakeups.
Jan 03 12:38:21 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: Will be 0 from now on if it helps
Jan 03 12:38:34 <ShadowJK> A think like would_block() sounds inherently flawed... if uses blocking sockets and does poll() to check whether writing would block, it's a design bug..
Jan 03 12:38:35 <SpeedEvil> I don't think that's the issue
Jan 03 12:38:43 <ShadowJK> but that's xchat's problem really, not maemo's
Jan 03 12:38:50 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Here is what I see there
Jan 03 12:39:06 <RST38h> ShadowJK: It uses non-blocking sockets indeed, in order to get low latency
Jan 03 12:39:10 <SpeedEvil> If you're connected over 3g - xchats behaviour is unimportent.
Jan 03 12:39:29 <RST38h> ShadowJK: but when it receives wouldblock, it exits its net read function immediately
Jan 03 12:39:36 <RST38h> ShadowJK: I put a 250ms wait there
Jan 03 12:39:43 <RST38h> not much difference though
Jan 03 12:39:47 <angasule> hmm, I have to configure my laptop in ad hoc mode somehow :?
Jan 03 12:39:50 <SpeedEvil> Utterly unimportant.
Jan 03 12:39:52 <arachnist> hmm
Jan 03 12:39:52 <SpeedEvil> I'd say.
Jan 03 12:40:04 <ShadowJK> Well yes, if interval between activity is <5 sec, depending on network, 3g radio would be on all the time
Jan 03 12:40:05 <SpeedEvil> you're not actually reducing the number of polls it does that way
Jan 03 12:40:21 <arachnist> it looks like palm people are getting excited about slugishly running quake1 on the palm pre
Jan 03 12:40:26 <ShadowJK> RST38h, I think we need >1sec sleeps
Jan 03 12:40:36 <RST38h> ShadowJK: This will fuck up the UI
Jan 03 12:40:43 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: even if it's 30s, the modem _utterly_ swamps it.
Jan 03 12:40:51 <angasule> arachnist: quake1? meh, I prefer the duke :-)
Jan 03 12:40:52 <arachnist> i think that showing them N900 running Quake3 might be a shock for them
Jan 03 12:40:52 <SpeedEvil> RST38: however - you don't care if the screen is off
Jan 03 12:41:10 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil, if there's lots of activity, yes, and if you're on 3g, yes. On wlan and edge, the radios will use lots less
Jan 03 12:41:12 <SpeedEvil> RST38: well - at least pushing it out to 30s.
Jan 03 12:41:17 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Jan 03 12:41:25 <angasule> arachnist: I thought you were kidding o_O
Jan 03 12:41:47 <SpeedEvil> I did sleep 20, scp file host:/ loop.
Jan 03 12:41:51 <SpeedEvil> And it lasted >>24h
Jan 03 12:41:54 <RST38h> ok, looks like turning lagometer off helped things
Jan 03 12:41:56 <SpeedEvil> before I got bored.
Jan 03 12:41:56 <ShadowJK> RST38h, ideally we'd want to poll() on both the socket to X, and the network sockets, with a poll() timeout set to the next timer event (lagcheck, whatever)
Jan 03 12:42:21 <RST38h> ShadowJK: GTK/GLib do it in xchat
Jan 03 12:42:44 <ShadowJK> There's no way to wait both on UI and net?
Jan 03 12:42:49 <arachnist> angasule: no, i'm not: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVdhJC63ThQ
Jan 03 12:42:50 <SpeedEvil> Ideally you want to probably take notice of screen background, and utterly ignore incoming net packets for 30s
Jan 03 12:43:09 <angasule> arachnist: I was watching another one, yes, cool :D
Jan 03 12:43:57 <SpeedEvil> Maybe >30s
Jan 03 12:44:10 * SpeedEvil tries something stupid
Jan 03 12:44:31 <ShadowJK> oh wait, first hit on google says you can hook up random FDs to GTK main loop
Jan 03 12:44:46 <ShadowJK> ignoring incoming packets wont change radio behaviour :)
Jan 03 12:45:15 <N900evil> this is a test of xchat kill - stopped 90p percent of the time
Jan 03 12:45:26 <N900evil> yes it will
Jan 03 12:45:36 <joppu> the debian .dsc file has 2 strings, one of them seems to be MD5, so what's the other?
Jan 03 12:45:38 <ShadowJK> However, if you had a bouncer on a server somewhere, and when the device state changed (screen off, etc), you sent a "delay" packet to your bouncer instructing it to batch all traffic, sending it in bursts every 60 secs, that might get you somewhere :)
Jan 03 12:45:49 <N900evil> this works fine
Jan 03 12:46:26 <ShadowJK> The server on the other side will still send traffic even if xchat is in STOP state, the kernel queues up the incoming packets in each socket's receive buffer
Jan 03 12:46:26 <SpeedEvil> inbound packets are typically provoked by outgoing packets in most protocols.
Jan 03 12:46:55 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: and the kernel does not wake xchat it just queues the inbound packet
Jan 03 12:47:04 <joppu> Is it the file size?
Jan 03 12:47:15 <ShadowJK> in IRC it's the other way around.. outgoing chat messages from client receives no response at all from server
Jan 03 12:47:16 <SpeedEvil> and yes to get most benefit you need an external queue.
Jan 03 12:47:43 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: true. It's however the best you can do to reduce power use in xchat
Jan 03 12:47:44 <ShadowJK> But channel activity and messages directed towards the user get sent whenever they happen, towards the client, and requires no confirmation from the client
Jan 03 12:48:34 <SpeedEvil> A simple test - above - with while true;do sleep 1;kill -STOP xchat;sleep 10;kill -CONT xchat;done
Jan 03 12:48:48 <Caesium> make sure your bouncer responds to pings itself or you'll find yourself dropping off though :)
Jan 03 12:48:56 <SpeedEvil> indicated that there are no fundamental problems with doing this and it will drastically reduce xchat wakeup calls
Jan 03 12:49:02 <ShadowJK> Caesium, indeed :)
Jan 03 12:49:10 <SpeedEvil> I have doubts this is meaningful
Jan 03 12:49:21 <SpeedEvil> And the 'right' solution is something I've wanted for a while.
Jan 03 12:49:28 <ShadowJK> I actually ran a script like that :)
Jan 03 12:49:31 <SpeedEvil> Which is a way to queue all inbound packets for 30s.
Jan 03 12:49:36 <SpeedEvil> or 60s
Jan 03 12:49:49 <SpeedEvil> from all protocols, and send on a ping from the mobile device
Jan 03 12:50:15 <ShadowJK> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/GGAD/sec-mainloop.html#FL-INPUTFUNCS If xchat's network handling could be hooked up to the input functions stuff, xchat could sleep essentially forever until a UI event or a network event :)
Jan 03 12:50:20 <SpeedEvil> In effect this is what wireless routers do - but with a poll interval of a few hundred milliseconds in powersave mode
Jan 03 12:50:29 <ShadowJK> but that's a bit of a large rewrite I'd suspect.. :/
Jan 03 12:51:12 <SpeedEvil> Extend that out to a minute, and you see massive powersavings in many cases.
Jan 03 12:51:35 <red> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB95IxvcGgE <- Finnish Ministers at their finest
Jan 03 12:53:14 <RST38h> Ok, I have found the 500ms timer
Jan 03 12:53:25 <ShadowJK> what is it?
Jan 03 12:53:31 <RST38h> many things:
Jan 03 12:53:35 <ShadowJK> <blink> support? :D
Jan 03 12:53:37 <RST38h> lagometer - 500ms
Jan 03 12:53:46 <RST38h> dcc timeout check - 1s
Jan 03 12:53:57 <RST38h> lagometer display - 30s
Jan 03 12:54:10 <RST38h> msproxy keepalive - 6m
Jan 03 12:54:31 <RST38h> so, what do we kill here?
Jan 03 12:54:35 <ShadowJK> and they're active always regardless if lagometer is on or not, dccs active or not, proxy in use or not, right... (*sigh*)
Jan 03 12:55:21 <SpeedEvil> Is that a quick fix just to turn them off if not active?
Jan 03 12:55:47 <ShadowJK> You'd have to find the places where new dcc connections are created/killed, and activate/deactivate timers there
Jan 03 12:56:27 <ShadowJK> But I'd just disable lagometer entirely, and change that 500ms timer to 2 minutes or something..
Jan 03 12:56:36 <ShadowJK> for an easy "fix"
Jan 03 12:56:40 <SpeedEvil> as a quick hack - lagometer to 5s, would do most of it
Jan 03 12:57:11 <SpeedEvil> and dcc
Jan 03 12:57:27 <ShadowJK> I think the lagometer UI is the userlist that's disabled by default anyway?
Jan 03 12:57:44 <SpeedEvil> it would be good of course to only poll if used
Jan 03 12:59:38 <SpeedEvil> Today I'll hack up a soundcard into a nice current logger
Jan 03 13:09:13 <RST38h> Aaaaaaaaalllll riiiiight
Jan 03 13:09:36 <RST38h> Lagometer timeout now turned off unless actual lagometer is enabled.
Jan 03 13:09:42 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jan 03 13:09:43 <_claesbas> anyone got knots working on windows here ?
Jan 03 13:09:49 <RST38h> The dcc check timeout set from 1 sec to 1 minute
Jan 03 13:10:02 <RST38h> I hope this will still work
Jan 03 13:10:04 <SpeedEvil> RST38: the fist would be a good patch to push upstream
Jan 03 13:10:13 <RST38h> fuck the upstream.
Jan 03 13:10:24 <RST38h> I am making myself a nice little irc client
Jan 03 13:10:52 <RST38h> whoever wants to get all open-sourcy about it, be my guests, the source is all yours
Jan 03 13:11:08 <SpeedEvil> pidgin seems to be entirely event driven
Jan 03 13:11:19 <Stskeeps> RST38h: lagometer for sure
Jan 03 13:12:15 <RST38h> Gentlemen, is this lagometer thing even configurable from the UI?
Jan 03 13:12:27 <RST38h> Because if it is, I will have to make it restart/kill the timer
Jan 03 13:12:36 <RST38h> But I do not see it in the UI
Jan 03 13:17:30 <SpeedEvil> In the 3/4 hour since I booted xchat, it's used 13s of CPU
Jan 03 13:17:43 <Oli````> Any ideas how I might be able to get audio playing on my desktop (Ubuntu w/Pulseaudio) routed through to my n900? Strange question, I'm sure, but to my untrained eye it looks like it should be possible
Jan 03 13:18:06 <SpeedEvil> which is about 2ms/wake
Jan 03 13:18:24 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: chat less!
Jan 03 13:18:26 <RST38h> =)
Jan 03 13:18:31 <SpeedEvil> RST38: N900evil
Jan 03 13:18:39 <SpeedEvil> which has been idle on several channels
Jan 03 13:18:44 <papo> RST38h: Maybe DLNA?
Jan 03 13:19:11 <papo> RST38h: some people tried to route pulseaudio but I'm not sure whether they succeeded
Jan 03 13:19:33 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: We should all chat less for his sake then!
Jan 03 13:20:03 <papo> sorry I was supposed to send that to Oli````
Jan 03 13:20:41 <Oli````> papo: PA does have a DLNA output but what could consume it on the phone?
Jan 03 13:20:57 <papo> Oli````: the media player can handle it
Jan 03 13:21:11 <Oli````> hmm
Jan 03 13:21:52 <papo> Oli````: it depends on whether you just want to listen to your media or have system sounds etc. as well.. I guess the latter would be more complicated
Jan 03 13:23:41 <RST38h> BEHOLD:
Jan 03 13:23:42 <RST38h> C#      | Ratio  | Avg/dura | Frequency | Ratio
Jan 03 13:23:43 <RST38h> --------+--------+----------+-----------+--------+
Jan 03 13:23:43 <RST38h>      C0 |   2.2% |          |   600 MHz |   0.0% |
Jan 03 13:23:43 <RST38h>      C1 |   0.0% |    0.0ms |   550 MHz |   0.0% |
Jan 03 13:23:43 <RST38h>      C2 |   3.8% |    6.4ms |   500 MHz |   4.6% |
Jan 03 13:23:44 <RST38h>      C3 |  59.6% |  118.5ms |   250 MHz |  95.4% |
Jan 03 13:23:46 <RST38h>      C4 |  34.4% |  430.3ms |
Jan 03 13:25:04 <RST38h> Ok, this goes into autobuilder. Is it alive? =)
Jan 03 13:26:36 <SpeedEvil> where are you getting powertop
Jan 03 13:26:48 <SpeedEvil> what was before like?
Jan 03 13:27:19 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: there was no C4 at all
Jan 03 13:27:36 <SpeedEvil> Everything is better with C4.
Jan 03 13:27:38 <RST38h> powertop is available from the sdk repo
Jan 03 13:27:57 <SpeedEvil> oh - I diddn't realise any of that stuff would run on device
Jan 03 13:28:12 <SpeedEvil> thought it was all x86
Jan 03 13:31:09 <RST38h> well it is not the same as Intel's powertop
Jan 03 13:31:16 <RST38h> but performs similar function
Jan 03 13:33:23 <SpeedEvil> I mean - the sdk repo
Jan 03 13:33:39 <SpeedEvil> where is the sdk repo?
Jan 03 13:34:17 <RST38h> in the sdk? =)
Jan 03 13:34:47 <frals> deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/sdk free non-free
Jan 03 13:34:47 <frals> deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/sdk free
Jan 03 13:34:47 <frals> deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free non-free
Jan 03 13:34:47 <frals> deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free
Jan 03 13:34:51 <SpeedEvil> I probably should install that at some point.
Jan 03 13:35:22 <SpeedEvil> Got the tools, not the others though.
Jan 03 13:35:28 <SpeedEvil> thanks
Jan 03 13:35:37 <frals> np
Jan 03 13:38:55 <RST38bis> SpeedEvil, moo
Jan 03 13:39:07 <RST38bis> auto complete works
Jan 03 13:40:37 <angasule> hmm, funny, the N810 sees the laptop's ad-hoc as having some kind of security
Jan 03 13:47:24 <RST38h> Washington, D.C.'s attorney general has filed suit (District of Columbia vs. AT&T Corp, Superior Court of the District of Columbia), claiming the city has the right, through laws applying to unclaimed property, to unused calling-card balances held in the name of D.C. residents.
Jan 03 13:47:28 <joppu> 09:08 [freenode] DCC SEND from bear [0.0.0.0 port 0]: поɦʞɔпɟ [0B bytes] requested in channel #maemo
Jan 03 13:47:34 <joppu> uh the unicode
Jan 03 13:47:42 <joppu> :P
Jan 03 13:48:04 <RST38h> Alien vs Predator =)
Jan 03 13:52:05 <angasule> joppu: looks like a dropbear
Jan 03 13:52:39 <angasule> hmm, ad hoc connected, but can't ping, bummerous
Jan 03 13:53:19 <angasule> does the N810 WEP dialogue expect ASCII or hex?
Jan 03 13:57:14 <SpeedEvil> if it takes 13...
Jan 03 13:57:36 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jan 03 14:01:00 <angasule> SpeedEvil: it works either way
Jan 03 14:01:25 <angasule> I wrote it as ASCII and it connected (no ping) I wrote it as HEX and it connected (no ping)
Jan 03 14:01:34 <SpeedEvil> I mean - if you can enter 26 chars, it can't want ascii
Jan 03 14:02:02 <angasule> ad hoc doesn't fail if the WEP password is wrong, does it? with static IP
Jan 03 14:02:27 <SpeedEvil> It should fail though - as it has no place to put the extra chars in hex
Jan 03 14:04:31 <angasule> it's not too hard to tell apart a HEX and ASCII key, maybe the N810 does it
Jan 03 14:07:21 <TomaszD> zaheerm, around?
Jan 03 14:08:47 <BadRobot> Hello
Jan 03 14:09:34 <BadRobot> Does someone in here owns a RX-51
Jan 03 14:09:40 <BadRobot> ?
Jan 03 14:09:57 <BadRobot> =-O
Jan 03 14:10:11 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Jan 03 14:10:15 <SpeedEvil> Several poeople.
Jan 03 14:10:20 <SpeedEvil> poople even.
Jan 03 14:10:36 <BadRobot> I am looking for VLC for maemo 5
Jan 03 14:10:53 <papo> 'people' seems to be a hard word to spell
Jan 03 14:11:15 <BadRobot> :-D
Jan 03 14:11:15 <SpeedEvil> I have gloves on.
Jan 03 14:11:18 <SpeedEvil> It's cold.
Jan 03 14:11:28 <papo> SpeedEvil: aw
Jan 03 14:11:57 <BadRobot> in here too. it's very cold outside
Jan 03 14:12:07 <SpeedEvil> 4.5c inside
Jan 03 14:12:20 <BadRobot> -20 C
Jan 03 14:12:29 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: >.>
Jan 03 14:12:40 <Shapeshifter> is your heating broken
Jan 03 14:12:51 <SpeedEvil> Yes, but cashflow problems too.
Jan 03 14:13:01 <SpeedEvil> As in it's not.
Jan 03 14:13:16 <Shapeshifter> that's horrible :|
Jan 03 14:13:17 <SpeedEvil> And jumpers are mostly working. and electric blankets.
Jan 03 14:13:55 <BadRobot> my rx-51 battery runs very fast . is it a bug on the device or is it something to do with maemo 5?
Jan 03 14:15:53 <Shapeshifter> rx-51? an n900 prototype or what.
Jan 03 14:16:08 <BadRobot> I have sold my HTC Hero for the Nokia N900 but I don't know if I have made a good choice
Jan 03 14:17:08 <SpeedEvil> BadRobot: it depends.
Jan 03 14:17:16 <SpeedEvil> BadRobot: what are you doing with it.
Jan 03 14:17:44 <SpeedEvil> BadRobot: for example a wireless access point that does not support powersaving will cause it to use lots of battery
Jan 03 14:17:49 <BadRobot> No, I don't think it's a prototype because I have got it through my network
Jan 03 14:18:13 <SpeedEvil> then n900, not rx51
Jan 03 14:18:27 <BadRobot> 2 years contract paying 20 euros a month
Jan 03 14:19:00 <wolf^> SpeedEvil, in my user manual it says "rx-51" ;p
Jan 03 14:19:44 <Caesium> pfft, got hassled to install Nokia Ovi Suite by my windows box just now when I booted it up, but it doesn't even work with the N900 :(
Jan 03 14:19:53 <BadRobot> My too. But in the box says Nokia N900
Jan 03 14:20:02 <Caesium> the PC Suite that it unhelpfully replaced at least let me sync contacts and stuff
Jan 03 14:20:07 <Caesium> so that's a downgrade, thanks Nokia :P
Jan 03 14:20:44 <BadRobot> The Ovi Maps also socks!
Jan 03 14:20:46 <Caesium> ah phew, PC Suite is still there :)
Jan 03 14:21:25 <BadRobot> I think google navigation maps is way better
Jan 03 14:22:24 <BadRobot> But anyway I hope the maemo project have a better future then android
Jan 03 14:22:34 <red> i think google is scary :p
Jan 03 14:23:00 <Shapeshifter> BadRobot: I agree. though you knew that before you exchanged your hero for an n900, right?
Jan 03 14:23:05 <Shapeshifter> the map bit.
Jan 03 14:23:05 <MSameer> frals: hey man
Jan 03 14:23:18 <MSameer> frals: feel like joining MMS efforts ? ;)
Jan 03 14:23:22 <BadRobot> I like Android but Maemo experience is much better
Jan 03 14:23:33 <frals> hiya, i replied to your blogpost earlier today ;-)
Jan 03 14:23:58 <MSameer> frals: yeah just woke up and saw it
Jan 03 14:24:08 <MSameer> you managed to beat me but congrats :)
Jan 03 14:24:33 <frals> hehe, as long as it works it doesnt matter who creates it imo :)
Jan 03 14:24:40 <MSameer> yup
Jan 03 14:24:50 <MSameer> hadn't checked your code yet
Jan 03 14:25:00 <BadRobot> Is there anyway to sync my google contacts with N900?
Jan 03 14:25:09 <MSameer> but seems it's more mature than my crap
Jan 03 14:25:32 <frals> MSameer: what language are you coding in?
Jan 03 14:25:41 <MSameer> C++ for now
Jan 03 14:25:59 <MSameer> I don't feel that comfortable with python
Jan 03 14:26:17 <frals> okey, ive done it all in python.. since.. well, i found a MMS lib for encoding/decoding in python that seemed to work :)
Jan 03 14:26:30 <BadRobot> Is it there good place to get .deb files for maemo 5 ?
Jan 03 14:26:37 <MSameer> yeah I saw it
Jan 03 14:26:55 <MSameer> but I ended up cooking mine just because I wanted to understand how these things work
Jan 03 14:27:22 <frals> yeah, ive read through the specs for mms/wsp a million times >_<
Jan 03 14:27:44 <MSameer> of course mine doesn't parse anything beyond the needed to inject a To address to an existing MMS
Jan 03 14:28:10 <MSameer> how do you bring up the gprs interface ?
Jan 03 14:28:12 <MSameer> ICD ?
Jan 03 14:28:35 <frals> yeah, as long as no other connection is active it manages to connect correctly
Jan 03 14:28:59 <MSameer> ic
Jan 03 14:31:53 <MaemohammadAG> updating xchat. bbl
Jan 03 14:31:59 <Ceron> hahaha :DDD
Jan 03 14:32:00 <Ceron> http://images.4chan.org/v/src/1262526807803.jpg
Jan 03 14:32:34 <papo> SpeedEvil: You told me the voltages of the two charging steps yesterday... Could you repeat the, I can't find my notes
Jan 03 14:33:28 <BadRobot> Has someone got their hands on the n900 update?
Jan 03 14:33:40 <hcarrega> lol Ceron
Jan 03 14:34:25 <Ceron> thats how you launch a fish into space
Jan 03 14:35:08 <RST38h> Bad, bad robot.
Jan 03 14:35:16 <TomaszD> bad BadRobot
Jan 03 14:35:33 <FIQ> s/a/b/
Jan 03 14:35:41 <FIQ> k
Jan 03 14:36:20 <FIQ> s/k/z/
Jan 03 14:36:20 <infobot> FIQ meant: z
Jan 03 14:36:47 <SpeedEvil> papo: http://batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
Jan 03 14:36:52 <FIQ> s/z/\0/
Jan 03 14:36:56 <SpeedEvil> papo: and the related pages are of great use
Jan 03 14:37:10 <FIQ> z
Jan 03 14:37:10 <FIQ> s/z/\0/
Jan 03 14:37:10 <infobot> FIQ meant: \0
Jan 03 14:37:58 <joppu> RST38h: Don't download random debs, use the repos, top bugzilla/community contributors are testing the new update right now
Jan 03 14:38:08 <papo> SpeedEvil: thank you
Jan 03 14:38:18 <RST38h> joppu: thank you, Cpt Obvious
Jan 03 14:38:31 <joppu> RST38h: sry I meant BadRobot
Jan 03 14:38:40 <papo> SpeedEvil: I just observed it to increase up to 4146 where it remained for a couple of minutes. Is this the end of stage 1?
Jan 03 14:38:49 <joppu> damn autocomplete :(
Jan 03 14:38:52 <SpeedEvil> papo: probably
Jan 03 14:39:01 <papo> ok
Jan 03 14:39:06 <SpeedEvil> papo: I have doubts as to the accuracy and repeatabilty of the ADC
Jan 03 14:39:23 <FIQ> badautocompletion
Jan 03 14:39:59 <papo> SpeedEvil: hm yes I'd need a large sample to know how accurate this is
Jan 03 14:41:09 <papo> SpeedEvil: maybe I can write a small script which writes to a log file and publish that on t.m.o to get more samples from other devices?
Jan 03 14:41:26 <BadRobot> I need vlc for n900
Jan 03 14:42:02 <frals> developing straight on the N900, having wifi powersavings off and charging makes it quite a nice finger radiator
Jan 03 14:42:24 <RST38h> frals: Try running Transmission
Jan 03 14:42:32 <papo> BadRobot: did you google it?
Jan 03 14:42:46 <frals> i can see that working even better :D
Jan 03 14:42:47 <RST38h> frals: may even be able to fry some eggs with it
Jan 03 14:43:22 <joppu> BadRobot: There's MPlayer, that is farly superior in every regard, so you really don't really need VLC
Jan 03 14:43:54 <joppu> And I just can't spell again :(
Jan 03 14:44:15 <BadRobot> I have tried it but . It can't play anything
Jan 03 14:45:53 <joppu> BadRobot: Did you get the kmplayer too?
Jan 03 14:46:16 <BadRobot> Yep
Jan 03 14:46:38 <BadRobot> Didn't like none of them
Jan 03 14:46:39 <joppu> BadRobot: Did you change the player to "mplayer" in the kmplayer options?
Jan 03 14:46:51 <BadRobot> No
Jan 03 14:47:08 <joppu> Well perhaps do it?
Jan 03 14:47:25 <joppu> Also, real men run mplayer from command line :P
Jan 03 14:49:50 <papo> hm the two forums "N900" and "Fremantle" are somewhat similar on t.m.o
Jan 03 14:52:53 <frals> well the "fremantle" is for software and "n900" is for hardware specific... but yeah
Jan 03 14:52:58 <RST38h> N900 is hardware, Fremantle is software
Jan 03 14:53:07 * RST38h moos at penguinbait evilly
Jan 03 15:01:33 <RST38h> Ah, "first MMS sent from N900"
Jan 03 15:01:44 <woglinde_>  moo
Jan 03 15:01:53 <woglinde_> rst hm new firmware out?
Jan 03 15:02:04 <woglinde_> is autobuilder usable again?
Jan 03 15:05:30 <RST38h> woglinde: autobuilder worked for me an hour ago
Jan 03 15:05:37 <RST38h> woglinde: no new firmware so far
Jan 03 15:06:32 <Ceron> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0zCD0fsec0 vaporware game? no worries!! live action movie is here
Jan 03 15:08:23 <fnordian900> should xchat on n900 store favourites on exit?
Jan 03 15:08:48 <adalal> can anyone help me with setting up mail for exchange on the n900?
Jan 03 15:09:22 <ifreq> if its 2003 = no help
Jan 03 15:11:14 <adalal> 2003?
Jan 03 15:12:05 <joppu> Ceron: Hahaha, what the fuck! It ways "Oil Storage" in Finnish on the door :P
Jan 03 15:12:20 <joppu> And "Forbidden" above it
Jan 03 15:12:24 <joppu> at 0:25
Jan 03 15:12:54 <ShadowJK> adalal: I'd assume he means if the exchange server is versio 2003
Jan 03 15:13:33 <ifreq> adalal exchange 2003
Jan 03 15:13:51 <adalal> ah, well, this is with google servers
Jan 03 15:14:21 <adalal> i've done it on symbian clients, i get an error saying that it's not recommended running it with pc suite, but i dont anyways
Jan 03 15:15:52 <ShadowJK> I suspect a search for mfe and google on talk.maemo.org would give a quick overview of the situation
Jan 03 15:16:49 <range> I always thought the quick overview was "Not officially supported and if it works you are lucky"?
Jan 03 15:20:18 <adalal> lol, the problem is, i get the first sync done, i just can't click on next or finish
Jan 03 15:20:39 <adalal> and i get the error that states that it's not recommended to use pc suite along with mfe
Jan 03 15:20:54 <adalal> so, i just end up closing the thing, and losing all account settings
Jan 03 15:39:26 <AlienOne> Greetings
Jan 03 15:40:04 <AlienOne> Anyone know if there is any impact if the factory set password to the "user" account on the N900 is changed?
Jan 03 15:40:18 <RST38h> no impact
Jan 03 15:42:26 <AlienOne> Excellent thank you - changing password then
Jan 03 15:43:14 <villager> does the user account even have a factory set password?
Jan 03 15:43:24 <inz> no
Jan 03 15:43:59 <villager> thought not
Jan 03 15:49:10 <Shapeshifter> now I've seen several times on the forum that the n900 is not only made in korea but elsewhere as well. But I don't see where, (and even why they would do that).
Jan 03 15:49:11 <TomaszD> I'm messing with gstreamer decoders and I'm getting an anxiety attack
Jan 03 15:49:40 <TomaszD> sorcery!
Jan 03 15:49:46 <AlienOne> another question is there a cross compiler in gcc for the ARMv7 processor - want to compile the latest version of Ruby to run on the N900?
Jan 03 15:50:49 <woglinde_> AlienOne?????
Jan 03 15:50:52 <TomaszD> zaheerm !!!
Jan 03 15:50:52 <woglinde_> install sdk
Jan 03 15:51:10 <woglinde_> it has the crosscompiler automagicly
Jan 03 15:54:30 <AlienOne> woglinde gracias
Jan 03 15:54:39 <AlienOne> yep that is me AlienOne
Jan 03 15:55:15 <RST38h> "...NBC executives rejected the initial version, claiming it was too "cerebral" for the average American viewer. To make the script more marketable, the American fascists were re-cast as man-eating extraterrestrials, taking the story into the realm of science fiction."
Jan 03 15:55:26 <RST38h> Priceless
Jan 03 15:57:56 <woglinde_> hm architeture all
Jan 03 15:58:06 <woglinde_> why my package is only build for i386
Jan 03 16:07:18 <villager> you should probably not use architecture all, but architecture any
Jan 03 16:08:14 <villager> all is for packages that don't need recompiling to work everywhere
Jan 03 16:08:55 <villager> hmm, then python scripts can be arch all, I suppose
Jan 03 16:09:34 <woglinde_> villager hm right
Jan 03 16:12:40 <woglinde_> villager thanks
Jan 03 16:12:48 <woglinde_> I always stumble over this
Jan 03 16:15:48 <RST38h> hmm...leaving engadget employee reminisces on how cool it was to watch youtube videos at work and NOT slacking off by doing this
Jan 03 16:16:16 <RST38h> miserable
Jan 03 16:18:49 <woglinde_> ~lart stupid autobuilder
Jan 03 16:18:49 * infobot teaches stupid autobuilder that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right.
Jan 03 16:20:36 <FIQ> ~lart FIQ
Jan 03 16:20:37 <RST38h> woglinde: it worked for me
Jan 03 16:20:37 * infobot slams FIQ against a large cement Tux
Jan 03 16:20:47 <RST38h> ~lart FIQ with passion
Jan 03 16:20:48 * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking FIQ with passion's head off
Jan 03 16:20:56 <RST38h> heh
Jan 03 16:21:14 <RST38h> Whatever infobot has just done is non-trivial
Jan 03 16:21:17 <FIQ> o.o
Jan 03 16:21:52 <FIQ> ~lart GAN900
Jan 03 16:21:53 * infobot runs at GAN900 with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut
Jan 03 16:22:36 <FIQ> swiss army knife..
Jan 03 16:22:36 <FIQ> makes me associtate to swiss manager
Jan 03 16:22:53 <FIQ> oh, and i lost
Jan 03 16:36:47 <crashanddie> FIQ: you do not. TOUCH. GAN900
Jan 03 16:38:25 <woglinde_> re crashanddie
Jan 03 16:39:10 <FIQ> ok
Jan 03 16:39:21 <FIQ> ~lart crashanddie
Jan 03 16:39:22 * infobot eats crashanddie's liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti
Jan 03 16:40:52 <RST38h> ah, punitive gastronomy
Jan 03 16:45:28 <papo> FIQ: Actually Swiss Army Knifes are quite handy in some situations
Jan 03 16:49:27 <Meizirkki> ~lart himself
Jan 03 16:49:27 * infobot wallops himself with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing.  It won't take long
Jan 03 16:50:23 <TomaszD> haha, the ugly gstreamer package is my bitch now
Jan 03 16:50:39 <woglinde_> hi felipec
Jan 03 16:56:20 <timeless_mbp> anyone here familiar w/ HAM/SSU?
Jan 03 16:56:29 * timeless_mbp is trying to figure out what a certain thing actually does
Jan 03 16:58:23 <woglinde_> has ssu still the old uclibc?
Jan 03 16:58:55 <timeless_mbp> i hope not, but really do not know
Jan 03 17:01:19 <RST38h> moo lardman
Jan 03 17:01:27 <RST38h> how are things?
Jan 03 17:01:36 <lardman> hi RST38h
Jan 03 17:01:47 <lardman> busy
Jan 03 17:01:56 <lardman> :(
Jan 03 17:02:13 <woglinde_> jo lardman
Jan 03 17:02:19 <lardman> hi woglinde_
Jan 03 17:02:27 * RST38h seems to have fixed XChat power troubles today (see extas-devel)
Jan 03 17:02:49 <woglinde_> rst hehe
Jan 03 17:03:04 <woglinde> my package finally is in too
Jan 03 17:03:46 <woglinde> slow slow maemo.org
Jan 03 17:04:23 <siriusnova> where is the n900 update
Jan 03 17:04:24 <siriusnova> :<
Jan 03 17:04:34 <woglinde> siriusnova hm?
Jan 03 17:04:41 <siriusnova> the new firmware update
Jan 03 17:04:44 <Bolle_mobile> hi
Jan 03 17:04:46 <ShadowJK> not out yet?
Jan 03 17:04:48 <siriusnova> that will fix the buggy crap that the current firmware i
Jan 03 17:04:48 <joppu> timeless_mbp: btw, jusk asking of curiosity, why doesn't MicroB allow native text input in forms? Like autosuggest and autocapitalization?
Jan 03 17:04:48 <siriusnova> is
Jan 03 17:04:49 <woglinde> you mean unoffical alpah software?
Jan 03 17:04:51 <siriusnova> :/
Jan 03 17:05:02 * Bolle_mobile trys xchat on n900 :)
Jan 03 17:05:16 <RST38h> Anyone know how to take over a key combination, GLOBALLY?
Jan 03 17:05:23 <woglinde> uahahah couchdb
Jan 03 17:05:33 <woglinde> the cloud has come to n900
Jan 03 17:06:04 <RST38h> (if I can do this without any C programming, that would be even better)
Jan 03 17:06:06 <jaska> ugh
Jan 03 17:06:28 <woglinde> hm that wasnt my package
Jan 03 17:06:35 * lardman has been looking for BT compasses too
Jan 03 17:06:38 <woglinde> lets see who put in the que
Jan 03 17:06:41 <lardman> without much luck
Jan 03 17:06:55 <woglinde> lardman hm
Jan 03 17:08:11 <SpeedEvil> lardman: I can point you to ones that will work but are not cheap
Jan 03 17:08:22 <TomaszD> only a few hours later... gstreamer0.10-rm_0.10.10.2-1maemo2_armel.deb
Jan 03 17:08:22 <SpeedEvil> lardman: there are boating compasses with NMEA output.
Jan 03 17:08:31 <SpeedEvil> lardman: then just use a serial->bt converter
Jan 03 17:08:37 <timeless_mbp> joppu: didn't i explain that in a fairly detailed manner in a bug?
Jan 03 17:08:55 <timeless_mbp> roughly speaking the nokia IME is incredibly broken
Jan 03 17:09:01 <timeless_mbp> and is not a well behaved IME
Jan 03 17:09:34 <timeless_mbp> and in order to behave usefully w/ web2 applications, the approach(es) the IME uses will pretty much break everything :)
Jan 03 17:09:36 <lardman> SpeedEvil: yeah, large and expensive, not ideal unfortaunately
Jan 03 17:09:50 <woglinde> RST38h better write to th -dev mailinglist
Jan 03 17:09:58 <timeless_mbp> the bigger problem is that pretty much no one anywhere actually understands IMEs
Jan 03 17:10:04 <timeless_mbp> Gecko has an implementation
Jan 03 17:10:23 <timeless_mbp> microb has a possibly broken gateway (this can at times be a problem of course)
Jan 03 17:10:34 <SpeedEvil> IME?
Jan 03 17:10:40 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: google?
Jan 03 17:10:58 <timeless_mbp> the first 4 hits are all lucky :)
Jan 03 17:10:59 <joppu> text input thingy
Jan 03 17:10:59 <SpeedEvil> Google involves getting cold.
Jan 03 17:11:49 <RST38h> woglinde: I hate mailing lists
Jan 03 17:12:47 <TomaszD> can anyone point me to an SD rmvb sample file?
Jan 03 17:13:19 <joppu> timeless_mbp: so it get a "fixed in Harmattan" flag? :P
Jan 03 17:13:53 <timeless_mbp> joppu: more like it gets a "see what happens in fennec" flag
Jan 03 17:14:08 <timeless_mbp> if i'm right and the actual bugs are that the IME sucks
Jan 03 17:14:21 <timeless_mbp> then it won't get fixed until the IME is redone *properly* with input from people who know better
Jan 03 17:14:22 <joppu> TomaszD: You shouldn't be using RealMedia Variable Bitrate in first place :(
Jan 03 17:14:28 <timeless_mbp> which is unlikely to happen even for harmattan
Jan 03 17:14:36 <timeless_mbp> even if hypothetically harmattan includes a brand new ime
Jan 03 17:15:18 <TomaszD> joppu, gee, thanks for your help
Jan 03 17:15:21 <Stskeeps> HIM is way too broke to fix
Jan 03 17:15:33 <lardman> infobot: Google IME for me please
Jan 03 17:16:00 <lcuk> We can rebuild HIM — we have the technology.
Jan 03 17:16:03 <joppu> timeless_mbp: I really have no guess what Mozilla has been doing all this time with Fennec. It's "1.0" but it's still so goddamn slow and unoptimized
Jan 03 17:16:04 <DocScrutinizer51> RST38h: why xchat-14?
Jan 03 17:16:14 <lardman> lcuk: and $12M ?!?
Jan 03 17:16:17 <lardman> ;)
Jan 03 17:16:19 <lcuk> :D
Jan 03 17:16:24 <lardman> or was it 10?
Jan 03 17:16:30 <lcuk> 6
Jan 03 17:16:56 * lcuk waves from very groggy sleep
Jan 03 17:17:07 <joppu> TomaszD: It's your own fault using RealPlayer, which you shouldn't be doing in the first place :D
Jan 03 17:17:13 * lardman waves back from groggy MATLAB programming
Jan 03 17:17:20 <lcuk> yikes
Jan 03 17:17:27 <Meizirkki> ~qwerty
Jan 03 17:17:29 <infobot> meizirkki forgot how to type
Jan 03 17:17:47 <lardman> Meizirkki: ~seen qwerty
Jan 03 17:17:47 <ShadowJK> ~google IME
Jan 03 17:18:03 <lcuk> hes in tmo
Jan 03 17:18:09 <lardman> ~seen infobot
Jan 03 17:18:11 <infobot> lardman: i haven't seen 'infobot'
Jan 03 17:18:12 <lcuk> ~seen qwerty12
Jan 03 17:18:13 <TomaszD> joppu, FYI, I'm making a RealMedia demuxer package for the n900
Jan 03 17:18:13 <infobot> qwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 30d 22h 54m 14s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'.
Jan 03 17:18:20 <Meizirkki> ~seen infobot
Jan 03 17:18:22 <infobot> i haven't seen 'infobot', Meizirkki
Jan 03 17:18:27 <Meizirkki> haha
Jan 03 17:18:34 <lardman> infobot: you probably need glasses
Jan 03 17:18:49 <frals> lardman: i raise your MATLAB programming with MMS decoding
Jan 03 17:19:02 <timeless_mbp> joppu: mozilla is doing things with a schedule, but carefully
Jan 03 17:19:12 <timeless_mbp> at nokia, for microb, we were cutting as many corners as possible
Jan 03 17:19:23 <DocScrutinizer51> Vglasses/mirror/
Jan 03 17:19:26 <timeless_mbp> (often more in fact)
Jan 03 17:19:43 <lardman> frals: deadlines raise the bar here too :(
Jan 03 17:19:52 <lcuk> frals, lardman mightv been using matlab to calculate the sped of an MMS
Jan 03 17:20:01 <lcuk> speed even
Jan 03 17:20:01 <frals> lcuk: :D
Jan 03 17:20:05 <lardman> but no :)
Jan 03 17:20:08 <ShadowJK> african or european mms?
Jan 03 17:20:09 <frals> lardman: you win ;)
Jan 03 17:20:11 <joppu> TomaszD: I'll get you a file them
Jan 03 17:20:23 <Meizirkki> ~see what's in the mirror
Jan 03 17:20:24 * infobot whispers to what's in the mirror "You didn't see anything...."
Jan 03 17:20:27 <Meizirkki> haha
Jan 03 17:20:43 <TomaszD> joppu, I found one already
Jan 03 17:20:44 <lcuk> lol ShadowJK
Jan 03 17:20:49 <TomaszD> just fixing up last dep issue
Jan 03 17:22:07 <GAN900> FIQ, what'd I do? :(
Jan 03 17:22:08 <joppu> Ok, what ever
Jan 03 17:22:50 <Macer> has anybody ever seen an .isz file before?
Jan 03 17:22:52 <Macer> wtf is that?
Jan 03 17:23:33 <lcuk> ISZ - WinMount Compressed ISO Image (WinMount International Inc.)
Jan 03 17:24:08 <lcuk> ive seen em, never used
Jan 03 17:24:09 <lardman> http://www.fileinfo.com/extension/isz etc
Jan 03 17:24:31 <lcuk> ultraiso
Jan 03 17:26:11 * lcuk made a stand for n900 last night out of a ciggy packet
Jan 03 17:26:33 * lcuk will have to do one in wood soon
Jan 03 17:26:46 <TomaszD> victory, RMVB works on the N900
Jan 03 17:27:12 <ifreq> moin
Jan 03 17:27:19 <lcuk> lots of victories atm :)
Jan 03 17:27:21 <ifreq> any good msn-plugin out yet?
Jan 03 17:27:26 <lcuk> sounds like people have been busy over xmas
Jan 03 17:28:00 <Macer> lardman: heh
Jan 03 17:28:01 <Macer> wtf
Jan 03 17:28:04 <Macer> what a bunch of crap
Jan 03 17:28:10 <Macer> need to convert this
Jan 03 17:28:15 <Macer> wonder if debian can mount it
Jan 03 17:28:22 <TomaszD> it's kind of slow, but it does work
Jan 03 17:28:47 <joppu> TomaszD: I have to honestly ask you what advantages there would be with RealMedia support?
Jan 03 17:29:04 <lardman> watching the BBC rugby
Jan 03 17:29:07 <lardman> for one ;)
Jan 03 17:29:21 <lardman> or listening to it if we're talking about sound :)
Jan 03 17:29:31 <woglinde> lardman who is playing?
Jan 03 17:29:36 <RST38h> ahhaha
Jan 03 17:29:42 <Macer> crap
Jan 03 17:29:43 <lardman> no-one atm, but just in general
Jan 03 17:29:46 <TomaszD> joppu, I had lots of fun making it happen, and by fun I mean several anxiety attacks while figuring out the build system
Jan 03 17:29:52 <Macer> looks like i am going to have to use a win7 box to use daemontools to mount this
Jan 03 17:29:55 <FIQ> GAN900: nothing, i'm bored
Jan 03 17:29:58 <Macer> whomever made it should be shot
Jan 03 17:30:01 <Macer> in the nuts
Jan 03 17:30:19 <lcuk> i doubt that would decrypt the file
Jan 03 17:30:55 <Macer> lcuk: only if it isn't encrypted
Jan 03 17:31:03 <Macer> i don't think it requires encryption to be used
Jan 03 17:31:07 <Macer> or password protection
Jan 03 17:31:09 * lardman gives Nokia a small curse for not building an e-compass in
Jan 03 17:31:10 <lcuk> decode then
Jan 03 17:31:22 <lcuk> lardman did you see my post about the spacer
Jan 03 17:31:26 <Macer> i was just going to mount it in daemon tools and move the files off it out of the isz
Jan 03 17:31:26 <lcuk> get somethign small enough
Jan 03 17:31:35 <Macer> i hope this doesn't turn into a new thing
Jan 03 17:31:37 <Macer> heh
Jan 03 17:31:39 <lardman> am not keen on opening the case tbh
Jan 03 17:31:47 <lcuk> me neither
Jan 03 17:31:49 <Macer> blah well. whatever. let me try this
Jan 03 17:31:57 <lcuk> but its the first thing removed
Jan 03 17:32:04 <lcuk> beyond the case cover
Jan 03 17:32:10 <lardman> shame that wintec ???-100 is no longer available
Jan 03 17:32:20 * frals wanders off with OMA-TS-MMS-CTR-V1_3-20060128-C.pdf
Jan 03 17:32:30 <lardman> sounds fun ;)
Jan 03 17:32:41 * lcuk smiles more @ frals
Jan 03 17:32:53 <lcuk> you need coffee and a bun with that?
Jan 03 17:33:51 <lcuk> lardman http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-news/nokia-n900-disassembly/   at 1minute 14
Jan 03 17:34:08 <frals> i think i need something a lot stronger than coffee, cheers thou ;)
Jan 03 17:34:30 <lcuk> frals thats easy
Jan 03 17:34:35 <lcuk> lardman has a whole bar
Jan 03 17:34:40 <timeless_mbp> joppu: to be fair, the nokia group that did optimization was not really the same as the team that did the ui
Jan 03 17:34:44 <timeless_mbp> and the same applies for mozilla
Jan 03 17:34:56 <timeless_mbp> the optimizations are typically done by a team that specializes in optimizations
Jan 03 17:35:05 <joonsm> moro. ongelma: Voip ja pikaviestitilit  nappula ei reagoi. eikä keskusteluissa "uusi IM".. mistäs johtunee?
Jan 03 17:35:08 <timeless_mbp> and such teams are generally overtasked and prioritized
Jan 03 17:35:09 <villager> RST38h: X allows a window to grab special key combos by using XGrabKey. window managers often do this. I don't think there's a way to do it with gtk, so you probably have to use C
Jan 03 17:35:22 <timeless_mbp> Joonsm: English? :)
Jan 03 17:36:42 <joonsm> problem. voip and im-button doesnt work in settings.. neither "new IM" in conversations ?
Jan 03 17:38:26 <ifreq> joonsm: solution, remove new IM accounts&conver plugin and wait for proper and really working one
Jan 03 17:41:30 <lardman> lcuk, frals, glass of wine?
Jan 03 17:41:31 <joonsm> thank you. :)
Jan 03 17:41:34 <joppu> joonsm: Käytätkö telepathy-haze:a vai telepathy-butterly:ä? Siis jos kyseessä on MSN?
Jan 03 17:41:51 <lcuk> oh yes! mr lardman that would be great
Jan 03 17:42:08 <joonsm> butterfly
Jan 03 17:42:11 <joonsm> meni jo
Jan 03 17:42:11 <ifreq> joppu, ei se hazekaa oikee lähteny pelittää (+mitä foorumeit luki niin yhtä tehosyöppöö)</fi>
Jan 03 17:42:22 * lcuk best get on and make an app
Jan 03 17:42:38 <lardman> ah, plastic bit good stuff
Jan 03 17:43:02 <lardman> acidic screws
Jan 03 17:43:52 <joppu> ifreq: Well, atleast butterfly had excessive power usage, I switched to haze a today. Currently testing it out.
Jan 03 17:44:08 <RST38h> villager: thanks =)
Jan 03 17:44:56 <ifreq> joppu: yeah gl.
Jan 03 17:45:11 <ifreq> btw hermes is quite nice app :) (just a sidenote)
Jan 03 17:45:25 <joonsm> i suppose there has been conversations about if maemo 6 something we could have on n900 also ?
Jan 03 17:45:43 <Stskeeps> best way to make sure it happens is by contributing to mer on n900
Jan 03 17:45:47 <joppu> joonsm: nothing officially confirmed
Jan 03 17:45:56 <Macer> well. daemon tools worked
Jan 03 17:46:00 <Macer> that was still lame tho
Jan 03 17:46:27 <joonsm> joppu: personal thougts ? its possible right ?
Jan 03 17:46:32 <RST38h> "Dense fog caused carnage in India today as four trains collided..."
Jan 03 17:46:40 <Ceron> http://www.kuvalauta.fi/b/src/126252727334.jpg
Jan 03 17:48:42 <joppu> joonsm: Well previous tablets got the new versions as semi-official Hacker Editions
Jan 03 17:48:46 <GAN900> Planet is just one article about dangerous stuff after another.
Jan 03 17:49:02 <GAN900> "Hey, get some cool software in Extras-devel!"
Jan 03 17:49:28 <RST38h> Yea yea
Jan 03 17:49:42 <RST38h> the more of them do that the fewer of them will be left to brag about it
Jan 03 17:50:08 <RST38h> GAN: By the way, get cool new XChat build 14 from Extras-devel =)
Jan 03 17:50:10 <jebba> RST38h: thx for optifying xchat  :)
Jan 03 17:50:55 <ifreq> yau :) saw some update today
Jan 03 17:51:10 <RST38h> "...gave her infant daughter a high dose of morphine last June in an attempt to garner the attention of the child's father..."
Jan 03 17:51:16 * jebba [Waiting for headers]
Jan 03 17:51:24 <lubosz1> hi
Jan 03 17:51:28 <woglinde> jebba slow slow maemo.org
Jan 03 17:51:30 <jebba> hey
Jan 03 17:51:37 <lubosz1> is there a way to install the sdk over a apt repository?
Jan 03 17:51:56 <woglinde> lubosz hm is that question serious?
Jan 03 17:51:59 <jenifer> http://www.lostworlds.lv/go.php?1139747394
Jan 03 17:52:28 <jebba> woglinde: they're not slow! Stop your venting! We're "lucky" to have such "top notch" services! STFU! http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-January/023374.html
Jan 03 17:52:28 <lubosz> woglinde: without the bash script, just over aptitude
Jan 03 17:52:54 <woglinde> lubosz better use the script
Jan 03 17:53:02 <woglinde> because it does much more thinks
Jan 03 17:53:04 <woglinde> things
Jan 03 17:53:10 <lubosz> the script is very hacky, plus i'm on 64bit :/
Jan 03 17:53:47 <RST38h> jebba: really? lucky?
Jan 03 17:54:09 <woglinde> lubosz you read http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation ?
Jan 03 17:54:26 <Stskeeps> jebba: CDN being slow is a it awkward fwiw
Jan 03 17:54:27 <RST38h> jenifer <-- spammer
Jan 03 17:54:36 <Stskeeps> jebba: it's akamai
Jan 03 17:55:27 <jebba> RST38h: well, that's what i'm told....
Jan 03 17:55:51 <RST38h> jenifer: (and yes, you should probably hire a native Russian speaker to do the translation)
Jan 03 17:56:04 <jebba> jenifer left the room (quit: K-lined).
Jan 03 17:56:13 <RST38h> Ah good good
Jan 03 17:56:24 <GAN900> jebba, get over it.
Jan 03 17:56:59 <Stskeeps> jebba: so if akamai is slow a bunch of other services should be messed up too, non-maemo.org'ian
Jan 03 17:57:14 <RST38h> GAN900: When you have to screw with autobuilder and package interface on daily basis, "getting over it" is kind of difficult +(
Jan 03 17:57:51 <jebba> Stskeeps: I'm not talking about akamai nor their other clients. I'm just saying when i do things like apt-get update, it hangs quite often. Surely you've seen this too.
Jan 03 17:58:05 <jebba> amongst other outages. I dont know if it lays with akamai or where.
Jan 03 17:58:18 <RST38h> jebba: That is repositories randomly screwing up
Jan 03 17:58:19 <jebba> GAN900: how about instead of "get over it" it gets fixed?
Jan 03 17:58:20 <GAN900> RST38h, unfortunately bitching here isn't helping speed things along.
Jan 03 17:58:22 <RST38h> Usually -devel
Jan 03 17:58:24 <Lantizia> Hey I have an N900... can I edit the contacts on it via the PC?  or perhaps synchronize the contact with something else on the PC and then send them back (that supports display pictures perhaps?) ?
Jan 03 17:58:25 <lubosz> woglinde: yes a very good link, thx
Jan 03 17:58:33 <GAN900> jebba, people are working on it.
Jan 03 17:58:40 <jebba> GAN900: actually it seems to. That's usually how the admins appear to find out something is out.
Jan 03 17:58:42 <RST38h> GAN900: Nothing seems to help speeding things along, so bitching here is as good as anything else :(
Jan 03 17:58:51 <RST38h> jebba: Not on Sunday evening though
Jan 03 17:58:52 <GAN900> jebba, so your best bet is to relax and let them do their jobs.
Jan 03 17:58:56 <Stskeeps> jebba: well, 403 is a real problem, same with Release hash tags.. but hanging i've only seen when my router was corrupting my DNS packages
Jan 03 17:58:57 <jebba> pfft
Jan 03 17:58:59 <Stskeeps> packets
Jan 03 17:59:04 <jebba> they AREN'T doing their jobs, that's the point.
Jan 03 17:59:10 <Stskeeps> (verified by 'host' on my device)
Jan 03 17:59:29 <jebba> it's not like this is a new issue.
Jan 03 17:59:31 <GAN900> jebba, your opinion is noted, now kindly move on.
Jan 03 17:59:46 <jebba> ? since when do you get to say who can say what?
Jan 03 17:59:48 <Stskeeps> either way, servers being slow can only be sorted once things are over on the new infrastructure
Jan 03 17:59:56 <Stskeeps> which is logical
Jan 03 18:00:01 <microlith> jebba: for all our sakes, I don't think there's anyone in here that can do anything about it
Jan 03 18:00:03 <jebba> some mirrors seem logical to me.
Jan 03 18:00:17 <jebba> X-Fade can
Jan 03 18:00:33 <Stskeeps> jebba: donated mirrors are a mess :/
Jan 03 18:00:42 <microlith> that's what e-mail is for :>
Jan 03 18:00:49 <Stskeeps> jebba: i've had to deal with all sorts of issues with them in another project
Jan 03 18:00:51 <jebba> ya, debian has real problems with it. And kernel.org and every other distro on the planet.
Jan 03 18:01:03 <GAN900> jebba, I'm an irritated sick person with op. :)
Jan 03 18:01:10 <jebba> pfft
Jan 03 18:01:16 <Stskeeps> jebba: if it has to be vhost repository.maemo.org, it gets more difficult
Jan 03 18:01:36 <jebba> Stskeeps: this isn't new ground here. This has been done by *many* distros.
Jan 03 18:01:50 <Stskeeps> GAN900: jebba isn't a troll though :/
Jan 03 18:01:51 <jebba> i mean, it's  not like something new needs to be invented...
Jan 03 18:02:54 <GAN900> Stskeeps, doesn't make me want to read his complaints every 12 hours.
Jan 03 18:03:05 <jebba> GAN900: i'll stfu when things work
Jan 03 18:03:22 <jebba> i would be *working* and not griping here if i didn't stare at timeouts all the time.
Jan 03 18:03:50 <Stskeeps> jebba: experiencing timeouts atm?
Jan 03 18:03:59 <jebba> they come and go
Jan 03 18:04:04 <Stskeeps> ok, i am actually too atm
Jan 03 18:04:06 <jebba> i successfully completed a apt-get update...
Jan 03 18:04:23 <Stskeeps> yeah, CDN is messed up
Jan 03 18:04:31 <jebba> 20.4k/sec! yippe!! This on a server at a data center with 100MBit connection.
Jan 03 18:04:48 <jebba> i get 8,000k+ set from mirrors.kernel.org
Jan 03 18:04:54 <jebba> s/set/sec
Jan 03 18:05:00 <Stskeeps> oh, wait a sec
Jan 03 18:05:08 <Stskeeps> someone did mention people were DoSing over newyears
Jan 03 18:05:08 <lcuk> is the slowness in part related to how frequently devices check for updates
Jan 03 18:05:11 <Stskeeps> like, the infra
Jan 03 18:05:15 <jebba> think that has any affect on workflow?
Jan 03 18:05:27 <lcuk> DOS can be accidental and not a specific action of a user
Jan 03 18:05:45 <lcuk> you sneeze and HAM checks for update
Jan 03 18:05:56 <jebba> i didnt hear about DoS. But of course, the admins don't report anything that's going on, unless the few lines from qaiku count as updates.
Jan 03 18:06:06 <lcuk> people are mentioning whenever they go online with new net connect
Jan 03 18:06:08 <lcuk> its rechecking
Jan 03 18:06:21 <Stskeeps> jebba: take it to council, that's what they're here for
Jan 03 18:06:41 <Stskeeps> people should get better at informing what happens
Jan 03 18:08:05 <jebba> yes.  Standard: "Outage expected for upgrade Jan 5th, 2010"   "Outage today due to failed disk" "Upgrade complete, services back online" etc.  Emails like that sent to -devel or a dedicated list of some sort is what is common. I'll write council.
Jan 03 18:08:18 <Stskeeps> thanks
Jan 03 18:08:40 <Stskeeps> qaikus are so small noone has an excuse
Jan 03 18:08:43 <Stskeeps> so that'd be preferred
Jan 03 18:09:18 * RST38h moos at the moon
Jan 03 18:09:28 <lcuk> is the qaiku feed available on the maemo wiki?
Jan 03 18:09:35 <lcuk> or on maemo server
Jan 03 18:09:49 <RST38h> Stskeeps: I doubt council can do anything about it
Jan 03 18:10:02 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i'd like to see council at least so -something- :P
Jan 03 18:10:10 <DocScrutinizer51> RST38h: what,s new (in short) on xchat14?
Jan 03 18:10:13 <lcuk> "see what the team are upto" would be better on official maemo.org space
Jan 03 18:10:14 <Stskeeps> s/so/do/
Jan 03 18:10:14 <infobot> Stskeeps meant: RST38h: i'd like to see council at least do -something- :P
Jan 03 18:10:17 <RST38h> Stskeeps: print more tshirts? :)
Jan 03 18:10:29 <RST38h> DocScrut: check the changes section
Jan 03 18:10:30 <papo> uhm
Jan 03 18:10:33 <RST38h> Or my tmo post
Jan 03 18:10:42 <wazd_e63> rst38h, hey, around?
Jan 03 18:10:49 <RST38h> wazd: yea. what;s cooking?
Jan 03 18:10:52 <DocScrutinizer51> RST38h: hmm ok
Jan 03 18:10:56 <papo> I just double-tapped by TV to zoom into a section... looks like the N900 is influencing me
Jan 03 18:11:07 <Stskeeps> RST38h: servers being slow is a matter of getting moved to new infrastructure for sure.. we can all agree that's the main priority atm
Jan 03 18:11:25 <wazd_e63> Rst38h, any signs of Roman around?)
Jan 03 18:11:26 <lcuk> papo just wait until you start taking tv outside
Jan 03 18:11:31 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Servers were slow before and after the previous move to the new infrastructure.
Jan 03 18:11:36 <papo> lcuk: in my pocket
Jan 03 18:11:40 <Stskeeps> stuff like the changes to extras process not getting done is something different though
Jan 03 18:11:40 <RST38h> wazd: Yea. He is in FL for NY
Jan 03 18:11:52 <RST38h> wazd: So, I guess wait for a couple of days
Jan 03 18:12:03 <Stskeeps> and it just shows that more people need to participate in the development of the maemo.org infrastructure
Jan 03 18:12:06 <wazd_e63> Rst38h, ah, ok)
Jan 03 18:12:12 <RST38h> Stskeeps: exactly
Jan 03 18:12:20 <RST38h> Stskeeps: But right now we only have X-Fade
Jan 03 18:12:29 <Stskeeps> RST38h: well, not nessecarily paid
Jan 03 18:12:44 <Stskeeps> but maemo.org is 'in essense' run as a closed source operation in some instances
Jan 03 18:12:46 <RST38h> Stskeeps: And, apparently, maemo.org infrastructure is so messed up with nokia's that you are supposed to be a Nokia employee just to look at it
Jan 03 18:13:01 <Stskeeps> RST38h: ah, that part i do agree is a bit screwed up..
Jan 03 18:13:15 <RST38h> Stskeeps: so, at the end, we still have just X-fade
Jan 03 18:13:40 <RST38h> And probably a huge pile of messy, convoluted code that has never been debugged
Jan 03 18:13:45 <jebba> http://www.debian.org/mirror/list http://www.novell.com/products/opensuse/downloads/ftp/int_mirrors.html  http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist  http://api.mandriva.com/mirrors/list.php http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors  http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors2.xml   Even tiny distros like puppy linux have mirrors: http://www.puppylinux.com/download/
Jan 03 18:13:59 <RST38h> jebba: Stop complaining already, will ya?
Jan 03 18:14:17 <RST38h> X-Fade is not here, he is probably still celebratin NY somewhere nice
Jan 03 18:14:33 <Stskeeps> jebba: make statistics at how slow CDN is performing, mail them, and hopefully it'll be fixed monday-friday
Jan 03 18:14:50 <wazd_e63> woo, spiderman 3
Jan 03 18:14:50 <RST38h> And I, presonally, would rather see another link from dailyrotten.com than a bunch of linux urls
Jan 03 18:14:56 <Stskeeps> jebba: none of those use one hostname though
Jan 03 18:15:03 <Stskeeps> like http://repository.maemo.org/
Jan 03 18:15:12 <wazd_e63> At last something non dumb on TV
Jan 03 18:15:33 <jebba> Stskeeps: and why would one hostname be required anyway?
Jan 03 18:15:51 <Stskeeps> jebba: well.. the main issue is apt not supporting redirects
Jan 03 18:16:08 <Stskeeps> second is that it's what is in every SDK, N900, .install files
Jan 03 18:16:24 <RST38h> wazd: what?
Jan 03 18:16:40 <Stskeeps> jebba: so that means to have a proper mirror process, you need to have a contract with someone
Jan 03 18:17:27 <jebba> everyone else seems to have sorted out this problem except maemo. I suggest following mainstream practices.....
Jan 03 18:17:35 <Stskeeps> cos it won't be good if you start having someone in your DNS pool that starts suddenly showing nazi propaganda cos he gets pissed off at someone at talk.maemo.org
Jan 03 18:17:55 <Stskeeps> (i have -actually seen this happen in another project-(
Jan 03 18:19:17 <jebba> and i've seen hundreds of linux projects over the last decade solve this problem easily.
Jan 03 18:19:19 <Stskeeps> jebba: but anyway, to get back to the point, yes, there's something odd with the CDN right now, let's investigate constructively what's wrong, but chances are that it'll be a matter of calling the contact at the CDN explaining the problem
Jan 03 18:19:54 <RST38h> Stskeeps: You probably won't argue that someone showing nazi propaganda at maemo.org would be hilarious though
Jan 03 18:20:08 <RST38h> for an hour or two, anyway
Jan 03 18:20:13 <wazd_e63> Stskeeps, had some time to build Marina yet?)
Jan 03 18:20:29 <Stskeeps> wazd_e63: been moving office and cleaning at the mercy of my wife for the last days.. haven't even done any Mer stuff :P
Jan 03 18:20:35 <Stskeeps> RST38h: if it's in the style of the pimp suit photoshops, i would probably giggle a bit
Jan 03 18:20:54 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Nah, it is only funny when it is deadly serious
Jan 03 18:21:13 <wazd_e63> Stskeeps, ah, no problem)
Jan 03 18:21:14 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i'm probably a bit influenced by watching too much Allo Allo the last couple of days
Jan 03 18:21:18 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Seen that quote about the "V" vintage soap opera? =)
Jan 03 18:21:23 <jebba> gah, even this is spinning http://maemo.org/community/   How does one contact the community council?
Jan 03 18:21:32 * RST38h can only guess what that is
Jan 03 18:21:47 <Stskeeps> jebba: council@maemo.org or poke VDVsx, penguinbait, .. err, who's in the CC again?
Jan 03 18:21:50 <SpeedEvil> jebba: google cache?
Jan 03 18:21:50 <RST38h> jebba: One waits for them to come here and then whines
Jan 03 18:21:51 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jan 03 18:21:59 <jebba> i'm guessing my connection to *.maemo.org is even extra crappy due to being in south america and not europe/USA.
Jan 03 18:22:04 <RST38h> jebba: Fortunately, irc.freenode.org is not managed by maemo.org team
Jan 03 18:22:16 <jebba> ya, and it WORKS
Jan 03 18:22:16 <Stskeeps> oh, qole, gcobb and texrat
Jan 03 18:22:18 <lardman> RST38h: waits for them to come here then gives then wine you mean surely?
Jan 03 18:22:25 <RST38h> jebba: Ah, don't you worry, it is as shitty from Europe and the USA
Jan 03 18:22:29 <Stskeeps> jebba: well, no
Jan 03 18:22:38 <Stskeeps> freenode has been in the crapper for some days now due to DoS :P
Jan 03 18:22:48 <RST38h> lardman: vinnegar is the most they are gonna get from me, personally =)
Jan 03 18:22:52 <jebba> well, runs far better than maemo....
Jan 03 18:23:05 <RST38h> Stskeeps: In a shallower crapper than maemo.org permanently is, though
Jan 03 18:23:14 <Stskeeps> anyway
Jan 03 18:23:27 <Stskeeps> less talk more doing, this is a community, not your local supermarket
Jan 03 18:23:28 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 03 18:23:31 * Stskeeps goes hack
Jan 03 18:23:40 * RST38h does not talk in supermarkets
Jan 03 18:23:40 <flux> too bad IRC hasn't been extended since its first inception, other than for trivialities like services and different policies on what to do on collisions
Jan 03 18:23:54 <RST38h> and why is it too bad?
Jan 03 18:23:57 <Stskeeps> if development process of maemo.org isn't open, blog about it, write a mailing list post, etc
Jan 03 18:23:58 <flux> for example, non-tree networks, client-handover, would be nice
Jan 03 18:24:06 <Stskeeps> i agree it isn't as open as it should be though
Jan 03 18:24:09 <flux> and fallback-server-support
Jan 03 18:24:22 <Stskeeps> flux: non-tree is so hyped without any proven benefit
Jan 03 18:24:23 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 03 18:24:28 <RST38h> fallback server support is done in clients
Jan 03 18:24:37 <lcuk> flux, x thats infrastructure level, we still have to get over the basic problem of irc
Jan 03 18:24:49 <RST38h> lcuk: morons? :)
Jan 03 18:24:50 <lcuk> how to stab trolls in the face over the internet is the most requested feature
Jan 03 18:24:58 <RST38h> Yea, I knew it was morons
Jan 03 18:25:08 <flux> stskeeps, well, attack the root and what happens to a great percentage of users?
Jan 03 18:25:17 <RST38h> Well, IRC does provide a convenient kick/ban interface
Jan 03 18:25:20 <flux> stskeeps, keeping the root hidden is one recourse, though
Jan 03 18:25:41 * lcuk thinks irc is one of the coolest pieces of tech
Jan 03 18:26:30 <RST38h> flux: here is what happens to you when you attack roots: http://community.livejournal.com/kitchen_nax/3470351.html#cutid1
Jan 03 18:27:03 <flux> rst38h, had to google that for me, hmm?-)
Jan 03 18:27:13 <RST38h> flux: of course not
Jan 03 18:27:23 * RST38h always has a wide selection of this stuff ready for quoting
Jan 03 18:28:00 <Stskeeps> uh
Jan 03 18:28:06 <Stskeeps> garage is actually bloody fast atm
Jan 03 18:28:29 <RST38h> christmas miracle.
Jan 03 18:28:35 <flux> rst38h, too bad quotebank.com is taken. as is quotle.com, too.. you could provide a great service :)
Jan 03 18:28:39 <Stskeeps> well, garage was migrated i think
Jan 03 18:30:54 <mkargar> hello
Jan 03 18:32:49 <RST38h> Stskeeps: I know you hope it is the result of migration, but in fact it is a christmas miracle =)~~
Jan 03 18:33:13 <Stskeeps> wazd_e63: get me settings to use in TM for marina?
Jan 03 18:33:38 <Stskeeps> wazd_e63: oh, you didn't send me template :(
Jan 03 18:36:25 <lardman> jeremiah: lol @ Yak shaving
Jan 03 18:36:48 <jeremiah> heh
Jan 03 18:37:00 <jeremiah> I wanna shave my yak my way!
Jan 03 18:37:05 <lardman> hmm
Jan 03 18:37:10 * lardman considers running and hiding!
Jan 03 18:37:11 <jeremiah> You guys are shaving the yak wrong!
Jan 03 18:37:23 <lardman> but instead goes to eat his roast yak, bbiab
Jan 03 18:37:34 <jeremiah> Mmmmm. Roasted Yak.
Jan 03 18:39:41 <penguinbait> I like sweet potato's with my roasted yak
Jan 03 18:40:34 <jeremiah> I read someone that the national dish of Tibet is black bread and rancid yak butter.
Jan 03 18:40:43 <jeremiah> s/someone/somewhere/
Jan 03 18:40:44 <infobot> jeremiah meant: I read somewhere that the national dish of Tibet is black bread and rancid yak butter.
Jan 03 18:43:49 * RST38h will skip on the butter then
Jan 03 18:44:20 <jeremiah> Skip on the Vineager for a while too please.
Jan 03 18:44:33 <RST38h> Mmm
Jan 03 18:45:06 <RST38h> jeremiah: I know it is not exactly on the same topic, but do you know how hyppos take a shit?
Jan 03 18:45:17 <jeremiah> Do tell.
Jan 03 18:46:09 <RST38h> Well, a hippo runs at full speed, defecating on the run and rotating its tail to spread the product over as wide territory as possible
Jan 03 18:46:29 <jeremiah> heh
Jan 03 18:46:42 <RST38h> I hope you see analogy to certain internet activities...
Jan 03 18:47:19 <jeremiah> The interwebs are big place.
Jan 03 18:47:31 <jeremiah> Even a Hippo couldn't poo everywhere.
Jan 03 18:47:34 <RST38h> More hippos, longer tails =)
Jan 03 18:47:47 <jeremiah> :)
Jan 03 18:47:51 * RST38h looks at t.m.o suggestively
Jan 03 18:53:57 <woglinde> hmre
Jan 03 18:54:20 <pupnik> it's not a place to peruse anymore
Jan 03 18:54:35 <pupnik> rather, search
Jan 03 18:56:14 <hrw> hi
Jan 03 18:56:18 <RST38h> ehlo hrw
Jan 03 18:57:11 <hrw> ~curse sdk for having broken debuild
Jan 03 18:57:12 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, sdk for having broken debuild !
Jan 03 18:58:24 <hrw> ARGHH!!!@!!@#%@#%@
Jan 03 18:58:27 <pupnik> "Creating portable software written in the C language has historically been challenging.  This chapter introduces GNU autotools as one solution for managing this complexity. "  http://maemo.org/development/training/maemo_application_development_content/plain_html/node7/
Jan 03 18:58:34 <hrw> Build-Depends: debhelper, cdbs (>= 0.4), libgles2-dev [armel] | libgles2-sgx-img-dev [armel], libgl-dev [!armel], libgtk2.0-dev, libxcomposite-dev, libxi-dev, libxdamag
Jan 03 18:58:37 <RST38h> Yea, right...
Jan 03 18:58:38 <hrw> e-dev, opengles-sgx-img-common-dev [armel]
Jan 03 18:58:40 <hrw> edheldil: Package libgles2-dev has no installation candidate
Jan 03 18:58:44 <hrw> fuck!
Jan 03 18:58:58 <pupnik> i wish i could just export INSTALL_DIR="/opt/${PACKAGENAME}"
Jan 03 18:59:14 <RST38h> ...introduces GNU autotools as one solution to make creating portabel software an absolute hell
Jan 03 18:59:40 <RST38h> pupnik: this does not quite work but you may try --bindir= on the configure script
Jan 03 19:00:02 <pupnik> i don't have access to the configure script if i have to submit to autobuilder, right?
Jan 03 19:00:17 <RST38h> you do have access
Jan 03 19:00:22 <pupnik> i only can work in environment variables and debian/rules
Jan 03 19:00:26 <RST38h> it is usually in the top directory of your source package
Jan 03 19:00:27 <pupnik> or am i mistaken?
Jan 03 19:00:36 <hrw> pupnik: --prefix=/opt/$PACKAGENAME for ./configure
Jan 03 19:00:39 <RST38h> and you invoke it from debian/rules where you give it options
Jan 03 19:00:47 <tigert> woot
Jan 03 19:00:49 <pupnik> right
Jan 03 19:00:52 <tigert> cmd exec applet
Jan 03 19:00:54 <xorAxAx> i want my n900, now!
Jan 03 19:01:06 * RST38h gives xorAxAx an n900
Jan 03 19:01:12 <xorAxAx> oh, cool!
Jan 03 19:01:14 <xorAxAx> thanks!
Jan 03 19:01:15 <pupnik> ty
Jan 03 19:01:20 <hrw> xorAxAx: I have n900 - now I want nokia to populate repositories with all required packages to make builds possible
Jan 03 19:02:11 <RST38h> hrw: can't you submit that required package to the autobuilder though?
Jan 03 19:03:13 <RST38h> Any kind sould can provide me with a sample code for the simplest Maemo5 desktop widget?
Jan 03 19:03:16 <mkargar> i want share my adsl connection(on eth0) by wlan0(wireless)!i tried more time!but,it doesn't work!my n900 detected wlan0,but,not internet on the n900!i used:http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Sharing_ppp_connection_with_wlan_interface
Jan 03 19:03:21 <RST38h> A single square button should suffice
Jan 03 19:03:32 <RST38h> s/sould/soul
Jan 03 19:03:48 <mkargar> i very confused!whats my problem!
Jan 03 19:03:52 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: the sto[pwatch widget?
Jan 03 19:03:57 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: or the eggtimer one?
Jan 03 19:03:58 <RST38h> you problem is that you are very confused.
Jan 03 19:04:03 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: A URL?
Jan 03 19:04:16 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: dunno - from the repo
Jan 03 19:04:24 <Macer> well. innocent school girl being chased by a vined tentacle creature
Jan 03 19:04:36 <RST38h> Where? WHERE?
Jan 03 19:04:39 <Macer> i could only see where this is going :)
Jan 03 19:04:41 <GAN900> Ugh, people keep putting their new routers on my channels.
Jan 03 19:04:47 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: extras-=devel; I htink
Jan 03 19:04:49 <brambi> nice
Jan 03 19:04:51 <Macer> putting new routers on your channels?
Jan 03 19:04:51 <RST38h> Macer: More tentacle porn?
Jan 03 19:04:59 <brambi> i didn't know there were so many people here
Jan 03 19:05:01 <Macer> RST38h: don't think so
Jan 03 19:05:10 <type_t> mkargar try turning broadcast off
Jan 03 19:05:11 <RST38h> Macer: pity.
Jan 03 19:05:22 <Macer> it isn't that kind of anime... i don't think so.. although the school girl got reduced to panties and the tentacle creature was drawing near
Jan 03 19:05:25 <Macer> :)
Jan 03 19:05:36 <Macer> first time i saw tentacle rape was in wicked city
Jan 03 19:05:36 <RST38h> See? Tentacle porn.
Jan 03 19:05:58 <Macer> naw. i doubt it. it's blue seed. don't think it goes that far
Jan 03 19:06:03 * RST38h has seen it at some party after 2:00am, and all others present were stoned
Jan 03 19:06:15 <GAN900> Macer, WiFi channels.
Jan 03 19:06:22 <Macer> haha... tentacle porn cracks me up
Jan 03 19:06:31 * RST38h couldn't quite figure out what the point of that anime genre was, but all the stoned people seemed to like it a lot
Jan 03 19:06:35 <Macer> GAN900: well. it's not like there are a lot of channels to choose from ;)
Jan 03 19:06:46 <Macer> RST38h: some of it is good
Jan 03 19:06:49 <Macer> a lot isn't ;)
Jan 03 19:07:05 <RST38h> I just don't get the point.
Jan 03 19:07:27 <RST38h> It is probably some really narrow genre that requires a real connosieur
Jan 03 19:07:34 <Macer> well. a lot of it has good storylines
Jan 03 19:07:40 <Macer> you should watch noein. that one was pretty good
Jan 03 19:07:46 * RST38h watched noein
Jan 03 19:07:58 <GAN900> Macer, there actually are here
Jan 03 19:08:01 <Macer> people watch it for the same reason they play final fantasy :)
Jan 03 19:08:12 <RST38h> Kinda ragged storyline, although I can understand what geeks find there
Jan 03 19:08:14 <GAN900> Macer, they just keep picking ones that collide with my network.
Jan 03 19:08:15 <Macer> GAN900: i thought routers were limited to like 16 channels or something like that
Jan 03 19:08:24 <RST38h> Macer: To kill time? =)
Jan 03 19:08:27 <Macer> RST38h: i like the fight scenes in noein ;)
Jan 03 19:08:33 <Macer> RST38h: for the story line
Jan 03 19:08:40 * RST38h mostly skipped those
Jan 03 19:08:48 <Macer> uh oh. the tentacles are on her. let's see if it turns into a bunch of penii
Jan 03 19:09:01 <mkargar> type_t:how to?
Jan 03 19:09:06 <RST38h> Aside from that, the usual Japanese stuff: characters start dying off early and do it in the most painful way possible
Jan 03 19:09:17 <RST38h> ehlo konttori
Jan 03 19:09:28 <konttori> ehlo to you too!
Jan 03 19:09:43 <mkargar> type_t:ok!
Jan 03 19:09:53 <RST38h> konttori: Well, I have found a way to switch physical keyboard languages
Jan 03 19:09:54 <pupnik> screw this, it always goes to the wrong place
Jan 03 19:09:54 <mkargar> type_t:i find it
Jan 03 19:10:02 <jebba> Mirroring mini-HOWTO: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Mirror
Jan 03 19:10:09 <konttori> RST38h: really?
Jan 03 19:10:20 <RST38h> konttori: There is a single gconf key
Jan 03 19:10:24 * pupnik doesn't bend this way
Jan 03 19:10:30 <Macer> guess not
Jan 03 19:10:35 <konttori> really?
Jan 03 19:10:39 <woglinde> hi pupnik
Jan 03 19:10:41 <RST38h> konttori: physical keyboard layout. You change it from "us" to "ru" and suddenly get cyrillic keyboard
Jan 03 19:10:56 <RST38h> konttori: with messed up arrow keys of course, but that is a different problem for a different bug report
Jan 03 19:11:15 <pupnik> hi woglinde
Jan 03 19:11:52 <RST38h> konttori: Now, I am looking into writing an applet that will let you switch. My question (asked in that bugzilla ticket) still stays though: why is it not done by the firmware? :(
Jan 03 19:12:15 <lardman> mmm, that roast yak was so nice with black bread and rancid butter
Jan 03 19:12:20 <konttori> ui design afaik
Jan 03 19:12:44 <konttori> (user interaction -felt it was not good idea - my guess)
Jan 03 19:12:55 <RST38h> konttori: you should show that ui designer to any number of russians, greeks, etc you have in your office
Jan 03 19:13:09 <RST38h> konttori: don't forget to hand out pitchforks.
Jan 03 19:13:38 <konttori> this is so cool: http://foolab.org/node/7880
Jan 03 19:13:55 <konttori> for russian kb it should work like that out of the box
Jan 03 19:14:09 <konttori> but not for any other lnguages
Jan 03 19:14:22 <pupnik> hey maemo.org seems faster
Jan 03 19:14:29 <mkargar> type_t:doesn't work!
Jan 03 19:14:32 * hrw -> off now
Jan 03 19:14:52 <RST38h> konttori: oh, the problem is that if you have got a non-ru physical keyboard, it does not work
Jan 03 19:15:15 <RST38h> konttori: and that is a hard bug, as it prevents bilingual people from using physical keyboard
Jan 03 19:16:18 <RST38h> konttori: this includes russians, greeks, georgians, armenians, big part of chinese and japanese
Jan 03 19:17:36 <konttori> yeah. I know. And yes, it's probably trivial to fix. I'll have a think about that on tuesday (when I get back to work)
Jan 03 19:17:49 <RST38h> thanks! please, make them reconsider
Jan 03 19:20:20 <woglinde_> lumdidum
Jan 03 19:21:17 <GAN900> bug #7566
Jan 03 19:21:18 <povbot`> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7566 Browser toolbar steals text focus in fullscreen mode
Jan 03 19:21:47 <GAN900> Can anybody tell me the name of the last option based on comment #2 there?
Jan 03 19:23:38 <lcuk> GAN900, if you dont know the name, yet you comment after saying it fixes it, isnt that a paradox
Jan 03 19:25:17 <mkargar> type_t:how to disble broadcast?
Jan 03 19:25:50 <lcuk> mkargar, does internet connection sharing work with your other computers
Jan 03 19:25:52 <mkargar> type_t:are you mean wlan broadcast?
Jan 03 19:26:11 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: I don't think it's there
Jan 03 19:26:15 <type_t> sudo ifconfig eth0 blah blah broadcast off
Jan 03 19:26:19 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: |I thiunjk it's a about:config
Jan 03 19:26:19 <lcuk> cos to do this you shouldnt need much messing on the tablet itself
Jan 03 19:26:54 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, if timeless says its a preference, its probably there ;)
Jan 03 19:27:09 <lcuk> it might not be on your however
Jan 03 19:27:15 <lcuk> on yours ^
Jan 03 19:27:39 <TomaszD> any ogg-support authors around?
Jan 03 19:27:49 <SpeedEvil> I could also be going insane
Jan 03 19:27:49 <TomaszD> Tuomas Kulve, Join Valtanen?
Jan 03 19:27:56 <TomaszD> *Joni
Jan 03 19:28:06 <SpeedEvil> but I went through all browser options and saw nothing
Jan 03 19:28:17 <Macer> goddamn
Jan 03 19:28:20 <Macer> http://www.otakon.com/images/guests/monica_rial.jpg
Jan 03 19:28:27 <Macer> she is one of the common voice actors for anime
Jan 03 19:28:29 <Macer> she's hot
Jan 03 19:29:13 <lcuk> and?  cameron diaz plays a troll in shrek
Jan 03 19:29:44 <lcuk> actually that proves your point, thats it
Jan 03 19:29:49 * lcuk becomes a voice actor
Jan 03 19:29:58 <mkargar> type_t:please,it is my ifconfig wlan0:http://pastebin.com/mb4225a
Jan 03 19:30:11 * lardman worries that lcuk wants people to think he's a hot female.....
Jan 03 19:30:48 <lcuk> thats a point, lardman i need to borrow your dress
Jan 03 19:30:55 <mkargar> lcuk:i tested sharing method only on n900!no on the other camputer!
Jan 03 19:30:56 <lardman> want the wig too?
Jan 03 19:31:09 <lcuk> yeah gfi
Jan 03 19:31:25 <type_t> # http://www.linuxhomenetworking.com/wiki/index.php/Quick_HOWTO_:_Ch13_:_Linux_Wireless_Networking
Jan 03 19:31:26 <lcuk> mkargar, i use internet connection sharing with windows as the middle machine
Jan 03 19:31:27 <mkargar> lcuk:i have only one wireless card!
Jan 03 19:31:33 <lardman> hand bag? Not pleasant having to stuff fifty pound notes into your armpit, take it from me
Jan 03 19:31:35 <lcuk> all my other computers connect without modification
Jan 03 19:31:37 <RevdKathy> I can lend you some underwear, lcuk
Jan 03 19:31:41 <kulve> TomaszD: yup (for a second still..)
Jan 03 19:32:24 <frals> commandoo is the only way to go in a dress RevdKathy ;)
Jan 03 19:32:29 <lardman> RevdKathy: I must admit I used to wear shorts when possible to carry around keys, phone, wallet, etc. No idea how girls manage
Jan 03 19:32:33 <TomaszD> kulve, hi, I'm figuring out how to add detection of different mimetypes for media player in file manager
Jan 03 19:32:36 <lcuk> RevdKathy, ok but not the peephole stuff you wore in barcelona o_O
Jan 03 19:32:48 <TomaszD> kulve, I see that the xml file is necessary, is its name important?
Jan 03 19:32:55 <lardman> frals: is nippy even with shorts on, I don't think commando is the way forward ;)
Jan 03 19:33:06 <lcuk> mkargar, does your internet also require wireless card
Jan 03 19:33:07 <kulve> TomaszD: the name specifies the order they are read
Jan 03 19:33:09 <lcuk> or is that wired
Jan 03 19:33:15 <RevdKathy> lcuk, the stuff I wore in Barcelona is uncomfortble for daily wear - made for taking off
Jan 03 19:33:20 <frals> on the other hand i think we all prefer if lcuk wear panties rather than going nekkid
Jan 03 19:33:26 <lardman> this is true
Jan 03 19:33:28 <TomaszD> kulve, ok, so 01_somethingsomething should be fine then
Jan 03 19:33:35 <mkargar> lcuk:whats your refrence for config sharing on win?
Jan 03 19:33:36 <Macer> lcuk: haha
Jan 03 19:33:39 <lcuk> *facepalm*
Jan 03 19:33:43 <RevdKathy> frals - commando not in the UK in December. Not even for you.
Jan 03 19:33:45 <woglinde> peephole?
Jan 03 19:33:48 <Macer> yeah. voice actresses are hot
Jan 03 19:33:56 <lcuk> woglinde, just let it go
Jan 03 19:34:00 <lcuk> dont search
Jan 03 19:34:01 <kulve> TomaszD: then it's read quite early and any later file will overwrite it
Jan 03 19:34:02 <mkargar> lcuk:but,on the win is easily than Linux!
Jan 03 19:34:03 <woglinde> lcuk you said it
Jan 03 19:34:03 <Macer> wonder what the ghost in the shell girl looks like :)
Jan 03 19:34:07 <kulve> if there are same mimetypes
Jan 03 19:34:07 <lardman> one good thing, is that waterfilled balloon breasts say nice and warm
Jan 03 19:34:12 * frals goes back to bashing head against the mms/wsp specs
Jan 03 19:34:16 <lardman> s/say/stay
Jan 03 19:34:22 <GAN900> lcuk, I'm using timeless's stringset. :)
Jan 03 19:34:25 <mkargar> type_t:please,it is my ifconfig wlan0:http://pastebin.com/mb4225a
Jan 03 19:34:30 <TomaszD> kulve, not an issue, I'll test it out
Jan 03 19:34:37 <RevdKathy> Noe I'm confused by two conversations - is the wire/wireless conversation about internet access or lingerie?
Jan 03 19:34:46 <microlith> man, my access point really, really hates the N900's wifi powersave modes
Jan 03 19:34:50 <kulve> TomaszD: ok. bbl
Jan 03 19:34:56 <lardman> RevdKathy: whalebones surely?
Jan 03 19:35:01 <lcuk> GAN900, "auto focus address field" sounds right?
Jan 03 19:35:06 <RevdKathy> Underwires... and stringsets
Jan 03 19:35:30 <lcuk> wireless or underwired internet connection
Jan 03 19:36:23 <GAN900> lcuk, I'll buy it.
Jan 03 19:36:24 <RevdKathy> exactly, lcuk. And does you wire come out in the washing machine
Jan 03 19:37:04 <lcuk> RevdKathy, no matter how much you wash the internet it wont come clean
Jan 03 19:37:10 <Mozillion> maemo.org becomes slower with the day..
Jan 03 19:37:26 <RevdKathy> now ain't that the truth, lcuk. Especially not with tentacle porn
Jan 03 19:37:28 <lardman> RevdKathy: and lcuk washes the internet inside a pillow case
Jan 03 19:37:33 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: unless you use a chinese laundry.;
Jan 03 19:37:37 <mkargar> type_t:i have onboard wireless card on laptop!
Jan 03 19:37:52 <mkargar> type_t:do you want help me?
Jan 03 19:38:14 <lcuk> mkargar, im listening
Jan 03 19:38:16 <lardman> mkargar: perhaps he's not here?
Jan 03 19:38:24 <lcuk> how do you get internet on your laptop
Jan 03 19:38:31 <lcuk> through a usb modem? or from wifi router
Jan 03 19:41:23 <RevdKathy> lcuk, did you see the second version of sheep is in devel?
Jan 03 19:41:31 <lcuk> i saw it was announced
Jan 03 19:41:34 <mkargar> lcuk:i connected to internet by ADSl connection(my modem is TP link) by ehernet card(eth0)!i want share it by wireless card(wlan0)!
Jan 03 19:41:36 <lcuk> ive not looked yet tho
Jan 03 19:42:06 <lcuk> ok, on your tablet, have you tried just making an adhoc connection
Jan 03 19:42:16 <mkargar> type_t:tp link is modem ian router!
Jan 03 19:42:37 <mkargar> type_t:tp link is modem and router!
Jan 03 19:42:57 <type_t> ok you have win laptop?
Jan 03 19:43:10 <type_t> # http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=31
Jan 03 19:43:30 <mkargar> type_t:no no!i have only Arch Linux on laptop!
Jan 03 19:44:52 <mkargar> type_t:i tried ad-hoc!but,n900 detected my wlan0,but,not internet on the n900!
Jan 03 19:46:19 <type_t> http://bbs.archlinux.org
Jan 03 19:48:22 <SplasPood> hrm... I installed browser switchboard and somehow managed to break the default browser
Jan 03 19:48:47 <angasule> I'm having trouble with ad hoc as well, it seems to connect, but I can't even ping
Jan 03 19:49:24 <mkargar> angasule:ok!!i have same problem!
Jan 03 19:49:47 <angasule> I have an N810, though
Jan 03 19:49:55 <mkargar> type_t:i have same problem!
Jan 03 19:50:16 <Macer> http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/4/1018-wendeelee_large.jpg
Jan 03 19:50:21 <Macer> faye valentine from crowboy bebop :)
Jan 03 19:51:47 <lardman> mkargar: you need to sort out your routeing (spelling) between the adaptors
Jan 03 19:51:56 <SplasPood> /usr/bin/browser seems to sit there for a bit (when run by terminal) then just exit
Jan 03 19:52:17 <emma> unquery
Jan 03 19:52:47 <mkargar> lardman:how to?
Jan 03 19:53:05 <SplasPood> Hrm, is there some way to pull an image off the N900 for possible restoration at a later date?
Jan 03 19:53:31 <SpeedEvil> SplasPood: dd
Jan 03 19:53:35 <lardman> mkargar: see the link above that type_t gave you, ask in there as it's a forum supporting your distro
Jan 03 19:53:44 <lardman> while this is not
Jan 03 19:53:49 <SplasPood> SpeedEvil: I suppose that'd do it..
Jan 03 19:53:56 <lcuk> #archlinux has 700 people ;)
Jan 03 19:54:10 <lardman> mkargar: ^ another option
Jan 03 19:54:58 <mkargar> lardman:ok!
Jan 03 19:56:04 <SplasPood> SpeedEvil: hrm, interestingly (or not) my linux box sees no partition table on the internal flash
Jan 03 19:56:48 <SplasPood> SpeedEvil: I presuming taking an image of it while the phone itself is still accessing it isn't the way to go?
Jan 03 19:57:04 <SpeedEvil> SplasPood: I think the 'flasher' tool can also get an image
Jan 03 19:57:08 <lardman> you can't see the internal flash from a desktop computer
Jan 03 19:57:20 <SplasPood> SpeedEvil: ok, I'll look into that
Jan 03 19:57:37 <ali1234> just use netcat on the raw devices
Jan 03 19:57:44 <SplasPood> lardman: well it at least exports the block device...  I end up with my sdcard and a 30GB device that I cannot see anything within
Jan 03 19:57:59 <lardman> that's the internal SD card
Jan 03 19:58:04 <lardman> is it not?
Jan 03 19:58:12 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jan 03 19:58:14 <lardman> or is that a single partition of the internal flash?
Jan 03 19:58:21 <lardman> I can't remember
Jan 03 19:58:22 <lardman> :)
Jan 03 19:58:34 <SplasPood> I'm pretty sure the 30GB is the flash, and my 4GB SD is the other one....
Jan 03 19:58:42 <SpeedEvil> It exposes the first partition of the interna,ll mmc as a device when you plug it in
Jan 03 19:59:11 <lardman> the rootfs is on NAND which doesn't ever get mounted for the PC to see
Jan 03 19:59:32 <lardman> SplasPood: try SpeedEvil's suggestion with the flasher, sounds reasonable
Jan 03 19:59:43 * lardman never having looked at that option
Jan 03 20:00:37 <davyg> is there an instant messagerie supporting video for the n900 ?
Jan 03 20:01:56 <SplasPood> lardman: lookin into that now
Jan 03 20:01:57 <lardman> davyg: Iirc the Jabber service/Google talk allows video messenging between Nokia devices
Jan 03 20:02:14 <shinkamui> damn I slept in
Jan 03 20:02:19 <shinkamui> and them saints SUCK
Jan 03 20:02:27 <Stskeeps> this isn't twitter
Jan 03 20:02:28 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 03 20:03:11 <w00t> it's not? what have I been wasting my life on
Jan 03 20:03:39 <lardman> what's twitter?
Jan 03 20:03:45 <lardman> ;)
Jan 03 20:04:37 <w00t> overvalued
Jan 03 20:04:38 <w00t> that's what
Jan 03 20:05:00 <zash> IRCin on 255.255.255.255 ?
Jan 03 20:06:57 <lardman> Is there the same sort of friend gathering that goes on on Facebook?
Jan 03 20:07:07 <SpeedEvil> zash: it's cruise control for cool!
Jan 03 20:07:19 <SpeedEvil> Binary capslock.
Jan 03 20:07:22 * RST38h decides against working tonight
Jan 03 20:07:37 <w00t> lardman: nah, it's too full of spammers^Wsocial media experts
Jan 03 20:07:56 <lardman> I've posted a whole 2 tweets I think, yet I keep getting "someone's following you" messages from people who have also posted once, and are following x-hundred people
Jan 03 20:08:03 <w00t> ^
Jan 03 20:08:18 <lcuk> lardman, spam!
Jan 03 20:08:22 <RevdKathy> lardman - do you get followed by Britney with those 'ahem' images?
Jan 03 20:08:26 <lcuk> post for real and those stop
Jan 03 20:08:38 <lcuk> RevdKathy, your spam has multiple images
Jan 03 20:08:44 <w00t> RevdKathy *is* spam
Jan 03 20:08:46 <w00t> :-)
Jan 03 20:08:52 <lcuk> by the time i find those mails the users have been removed
Jan 03 20:08:57 <lardman> my real posts would be dull "curing MATLAB", "cursing MATLAB", .....
Jan 03 20:09:02 <lcuk> w00t omg you are right
Jan 03 20:09:06 <RevdKathy> w00t... Awwww *sniff* Gonna cry now
Jan 03 20:09:09 <SpeedEvil> frals: is sdk repo loading for you?
Jan 03 20:09:18 <davyg> lardman, thanks i will try that
Jan 03 20:09:34 <frals> dunno dont have the sdk running atm, give me a min and ill check
Jan 03 20:10:01 <lcuk> lardman, would be better having matlab itself tweeting
Jan 03 20:10:26 <lardman> lcuk: it can barely talk to me the loops are so tight and super efficient :p
Jan 03 20:10:31 <lardman> hmm
Jan 03 20:10:45 <lcuk> "solved fermets last theorem, but wont show that wine drinking transvestite cos he keeps swearing at me"
Jan 03 20:11:09 <lardman> lol
Jan 03 20:11:17 <lardman> and it's a two-liner too
Jan 03 20:11:20 <RevdKathy> LOL lcuk. I dare you to tweet that
Jan 03 20:11:51 <frals> SpeedEvil: yeah, but its reaaaaaaaaally slow
Jan 03 20:12:21 * konttori just wrote a quick wiki page about the calc example he blogged about last time: http://wiki.maemo.org/QML-EnhancedCalcExample
Jan 03 20:12:34 <konttori> Any ideas on how to upload a zip file to a maemo.org wiki page?
Jan 03 20:13:04 <SplasPood> lardman: doesn't look like flasher-3.5 has any such option, gonna keep googling
Jan 03 20:13:31 <lcuk> RevdKathy, dare accepted
Jan 03 20:13:41 <RevdKathy> :D
Jan 03 20:13:43 <angasule> so, hmm, I configured my laptop and n810 as ad hoc, the n810 says the connection was successful, but I can't ping, routing is fine, tcpdump -i <correct interface> on my laptop shows it's sending messages ok, and ifconfig reports no errors
Jan 03 20:13:46 <lardman> konttori: very pretty, but will it do symbolic integration?
Jan 03 20:13:56 <angasule> on the n810 side, ifconfig reports TX errors
Jan 03 20:14:01 <SpeedEvil> frals: won't load at all for me - I guess just try tomoorrow
Jan 03 20:14:16 <RevdKathy> Love it!
Jan 03 20:14:28 <lcuk> konttori, \o hey, upload zip to garage or other repository and link from there? i didnt know the wiki was a file host
Jan 03 20:14:30 <RevdKathy> Needs a hashtag so lots of people see it
Jan 03 20:14:34 <konttori> the calculator is really simple. No, it won't do. But you can surely improve it to do
Jan 03 20:14:43 <lardman> urgh
Jan 03 20:14:44 <lardman> ;)
Jan 03 20:15:05 <lardman> Well if anyone's bored, Qalculate! needs some hildonisation
Jan 03 20:15:24 <lardman> konttori: your demo does look cool though :)
Jan 03 20:15:29 <konttori> lcuk: garage is not nice, as I would have to upload that as part of some project.
Jan 03 20:15:44 <RST38h> lardman: Have a friend working at NASA
Jan 03 20:15:44 <konttori> and I don't have any other good places that store permanently files
Jan 03 20:15:48 <lcuk> konttori, gitorious
Jan 03 20:15:56 <konttori> lardman: thanks
Jan 03 20:15:57 <lcuk> if its source stuff?
Jan 03 20:16:07 <woglinde> angasule ad-hoc suckz at transfering big files
Jan 03 20:16:12 <konttori> lcuk: I don't want to make a new project for snipplet of a code.
Jan 03 20:16:17 <lardman> RST38h: go on
Jan 03 20:16:38 <RST38h> lardman: She said there was some guy running around the office and bugging people with the idea to use Matlab for real time space vehicle control
Jan 03 20:16:38 <konttori> I mean, that code is only quick hack. My first hello world to qml.
Jan 03 20:16:55 <lcuk> konttori, you have your on server?
Jan 03 20:16:59 <konttori> And I just wanted people to see how nice and clean qml is.
Jan 03 20:17:03 <lcuk> you oculd make pages with it
Jan 03 20:17:06 <lardman> RST38h: good Lord!
Jan 03 20:17:07 <konttori> lcuk: no  I don't
Jan 03 20:17:13 <lcuk> or properly add it as a project seed
Jan 03 20:17:16 <angasule> woglinde: umh, ok, no networking sucks at transfering small files.
Jan 03 20:17:17 <RST38h> lardman: With people actually running from him as if he were sick with bubonic plague
Jan 03 20:17:20 <lardman> RST38h: Well he trusts Java's garbage collection more than I do ;)
Jan 03 20:17:21 <lcuk> cos then it can be built on
Jan 03 20:17:21 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: I'm reminded of a failure I heard of.
Jan 03 20:17:30 <konttori> lcuk: and even if I did, I would not feel that's a permanent storage
Jan 03 20:17:41 <RST38h> lardman: Oh, wait, you are running it with kava?
Jan 03 20:17:44 <RST38h> java
Jan 03 20:17:49 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: Which was doing complex maglev of high speed rotating objects in real-time using matlab
Jan 03 20:17:50 <lcuk> then make a garage project and the app support for it
Jan 03 20:17:52 <lardman> RST38h: that's how it runs by default
Jan 03 20:17:55 <lcuk> dog food and everything
Jan 03 20:17:58 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: and failing dismally.
Jan 03 20:18:05 <RST38h> lardman: There is a command line option. -nojava or something
Jan 03 20:18:06 <konttori> crap. Ok, I'll make a garage project. Sigh.
Jan 03 20:18:29 <RST38h> lardman: it kills the java dead and brings back the old, reasonable, console interface
Jan 03 20:18:30 <lcuk> lol konttori there really isnt any way round that one
Jan 03 20:18:34 <angasule> I miss my networking :(
Jan 03 20:18:43 <lcuk> its easier on gitoriour afaik
Jan 03 20:18:46 <lcuk> s
Jan 03 20:18:47 <lardman> RST38h: I think that just gets rid of the UI though, the backend is probably still Java - all sorts of Java exceptions thrown out to the command prompt when you manage to crash/run out of memory, etc
Jan 03 20:18:52 <konttori> lcuk: there is: Make maemo.org wiki allow zip uploads!
Jan 03 20:19:03 <konttori> that way the wiki and the source are always in sync.
Jan 03 20:19:06 <RST38h> lardman: never gave me a java exception in all three years of using it
Jan 03 20:19:08 <lcuk> then it needs to support history of zips
Jan 03 20:19:11 <lcuk> and changes
Jan 03 20:19:16 <RST38h> lardman: backend is all c/c++ anyway
Jan 03 20:19:19 <lardman> RST38h: you didn't try hard enough then ;)
Jan 03 20:19:20 <lcuk> and extra new new servers ontop to maintain it
Jan 03 20:19:36 <RST38h> lardman: or matlab changed.
Jan 03 20:19:54 <lardman> it can quite happily run interpreted Java code these days
Jan 03 20:19:59 <RST38h> lardman: but I would still try finding and using that command line option. It helped me A LOT
Jan 03 20:20:02 <lardman> which is not necessarily a good thing
Jan 03 20:20:33 * RST38h ran it on Ultra2 which folded when starting Java UI
Jan 03 20:20:36 <lcuk> konttori, i agree with issues of wiki/source breakup,  the wiki could come from the source repo itself if done with garage
Jan 03 20:20:38 <lcuk> ;)
Jan 03 20:20:48 <lardman> RST38h: how long ago?
Jan 03 20:20:53 <RST38h> lardman: 2004
Jan 03 20:20:56 <lcuk> at least thats how app websites work
Jan 03 20:21:33 <lardman> RST38h: who knows
Jan 03 20:21:58 <PBeck> hi
Jan 03 20:22:00 <RST38h> ok, going to watch a movie and hit the bed
Jan 03 20:22:24 <woglinde> nite rst
Jan 03 20:22:28 <PBeck> my n900 would't reboot - i think the rootfs is full - have i a few options to do except of flashing?
Jan 03 20:22:35 <PBeck> *boot
Jan 03 20:22:44 <RST38h> It is Steve Jobs! Kill! Kill him quick! The big finger on his left hand is said to bring luck!
Jan 03 20:22:50 <PBeck> i have tested the trick with the R&d mode but that not help
Jan 03 20:22:53 <konttori> Nice, my snes video demographics showed 21% female viewers. For that QML demo video: 0% female viewers ;)
Jan 03 20:23:21 <RST38h> konttori: more importantly, it shows 1 or more Nintendo lawyers
Jan 03 20:23:30 <RST38h> showed, sorry
Jan 03 20:23:35 <PBeck> what will be erased when i flash the normal image?
Jan 03 20:23:35 <angasule> hmm, iwlist eth1 peers gives no peers
Jan 03 20:23:46 <PBeck> or what is saved in the emmc?
Jan 03 20:23:50 <konttori> Lol!
Jan 03 20:24:17 <RST38h> or maybe some really pissed off executive, who knows...
Jan 03 20:24:57 <RST38h> <sleep>
Jan 03 20:25:05 <lardman> night night RST38h
Jan 03 20:26:58 * lardman heads to watch TV
Jan 03 20:27:16 <adalal> is there a plugin on the n900 contacts and conversation to add facebook?
Jan 03 20:27:26 <adalal> as in a facebook chat
Jan 03 20:28:03 <woglinde> angasule did you use the gui to setup ad-hoc mode on n900?
Jan 03 20:28:17 <angasule> woglinde: n810, and yes
Jan 03 20:28:18 <lcuk> http://othernews.uk.myway.com/article//20100103/B29648211262539238A0.html :) not the only one
Jan 03 20:28:34 <woglinde> angasule whats the hostpc saying?
Jan 03 20:28:54 <angasule> woglinde: could you be more specific?
Jan 03 20:28:58 <woglinde> did he get an IBSS mac?
Jan 03 20:29:13 <woglinde> angasule try to disconnect and connect again
Jan 03 20:29:25 <woglinde> sometimes It works than
Jan 03 20:29:35 <woglinde> on n810
Jan 03 20:32:23 <angasule> should iwlist eth1 peers show my n810? I'm not sure what that command does, really
Jan 03 20:34:30 <konttori> does anybody know how to send a dbus message in qt script?
Jan 03 20:35:28 <woglinde> kontori consult qtdocs?
Jan 03 20:35:57 <woglinde> http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/qdbusconnection.html
Jan 03 20:38:06 <LuciusMare> hi
Jan 03 20:38:20 <woglinde> re LuciusMare
Jan 03 20:38:35 <TomaszD> Decoders Support 0.2 is now in the queue
Jan 03 20:38:36 <TomaszD> :)
Jan 03 20:38:37 <LuciusMare> can microb delete the personal data (such as history,cache) ?
Jan 03 20:38:49 <woglinde> TomaszD hm what I gain with this?
Jan 03 20:39:04 <TomaszD> woglinde, do you know what the initial package does?
Jan 03 20:39:11 <woglinde> no
Jan 03 20:39:15 <SpeedEvil> Luc: yes - options when browser is open
Jan 03 20:39:32 <TomaszD> then read the description, 0.1 is in Extras
Jan 03 20:39:50 <LuciusMare> thanks
Jan 03 20:41:54 <pH5> TomaszD: what's new in 0.2?
Jan 03 20:42:58 <TomaszD> pH5, I spent a few hours to make a RealMedia GStreamer package, so that's a new thing. And also support for easy playback from the File Manager (no need to choose the Media Player manually)
Jan 03 20:43:17 <TomaszD> oh, and now it depends on ogg-support for a complete set of decoders.
Jan 03 20:43:33 <tigert> cool
Jan 03 20:43:41 <woglinde> slow slow maemo.org
Jan 03 20:43:49 <pupnik> can gpodder play video podcasts now?
Jan 03 20:43:51 <frals> god maemo.org is slow :<
Jan 03 20:43:55 <frals> give me pypackager already!
Jan 03 20:44:18 <TomaszD> pupnik, it definitely did since I remember, try the TED podcast
Jan 03 20:44:26 <tigert> konttori: http://www.dafont.com/monofur.font
Jan 03 20:44:36 <tigert> looks kinda classy on maemo screens
Jan 03 20:44:37 <pH5> TomaszD: thanks
Jan 03 20:44:42 <konttori> nice font
Jan 03 20:44:47 <tigert> it is
Jan 03 20:44:54 <tigert> took a bit to get used to
Jan 03 20:44:58 <tigert> but its sweet
Jan 03 20:45:16 <tigert> dump the ttfs /home/user/.fonts and reboot
Jan 03 20:45:29 <tigert> s/ttfs/ttfs to/
Jan 03 20:45:31 <infobot> tigert meant: dump the ttfs to /home/user/.fonts and reboot
Jan 03 20:49:44 <pupnik> ted video works TomaszD ty.  now i can look into these other feeds
Jan 03 20:49:54 <TomaszD> :)
Jan 03 20:51:02 <pupnik> pupnik.de/tome_ncurses_maemo.deb if you like that stuff.  needs some terminal config work and removal of a 'feature'
Jan 03 20:51:34 <pupnik> but it is optified
Jan 03 20:52:03 <lcuk> what happens if you optify a folder with some contents already optified
Jan 03 20:52:08 <lcuk> does the universe implode?
Jan 03 20:52:58 <frals> anyone happen to have pypackagers .debfile? im going crazy waiting for maemo.org
Jan 03 20:53:01 <pupnik> it means i still cant package
Jan 03 20:53:16 <lcuk> pupnik, i dont mean you specifically
Jan 03 20:53:32 <lcuk> but in general, does the /optifier know whether parent folders have already been optified
Jan 03 20:53:41 <lcuk> and will it just create symlinks regardless
Jan 03 20:58:03 <SpeedEvil> can fbreader load http urls?
Jan 03 21:02:51 <konttori> tigert: I'll create a theme with that font to see how it works as the UI font
Jan 03 21:04:14 <Stskeeps> jeremiah: ah, another good reason for it being difficult to mirror: nokia-binaries is hosted on repository.maemo.org as well as timed SDK releases (hidden until launch)
Jan 03 21:04:39 <Stskeeps> which would be a major headache to mirror pool/maemo5.0 and so on
Jan 03 21:12:57 <pupnik> gpodder does not offer me to download the previous (not new) ted videos so that i can resume
Jan 03 21:13:13 <shinkamui> hi pupnik
Jan 03 21:13:29 <shinkamui> I succeeded in building a software rendering blender
Jan 03 21:13:31 <shinkamui> :)
Jan 03 21:13:45 <pupnik> congrats!
Jan 03 21:13:54 <shinkamui> its a little slow though
Jan 03 21:14:06 <shinkamui> and I spoke with the author of blenderpocket
Jan 03 21:14:10 <ali1234> how easy is it to use with only one mouse button?
Jan 03 21:14:13 <pupnik> is there a decent wireframe mode?
Jan 03 21:14:21 <shinkamui> he said he wrote an opengl to gles warpper for the pocketpc
Jan 03 21:14:42 <shinkamui> even though its still software driven, opengles removes the stress of floating point operations on the cpu
Jan 03 21:14:46 <pupnik> there is also one on gp32x.com
Jan 03 21:14:55 <shinkamui> I think I saw that one pupnik
Jan 03 21:15:02 <shinkamui> I can't make any sense of it
Jan 03 21:15:05 <shinkamui> the googlecode one
Jan 03 21:15:11 <shinkamui> wes-gl iirc
Jan 03 21:15:12 <pupnik> yeah same
Jan 03 21:15:23 <shinkamui> I don't really know how to use it
Jan 03 21:15:30 <pupnik> you have built with fast cflags i guess
Jan 03 21:15:47 <user__> hi
Jan 03 21:15:50 <pupnik> at least march, neon, fastmath
Jan 03 21:16:04 <shinkamui> I can try that
Jan 03 21:16:07 <pupnik> hi
Jan 03 21:16:07 <shinkamui> can't uhurt :)
Jan 03 21:16:17 <shinkamui> otherwise, I got my hands on the blenderpocket wrapper
Jan 03 21:16:27 <shinkamui> and I think that will take me some days to implement
Jan 03 21:16:37 <shinkamui> a lot of crap is hardcoded and wince specific
Jan 03 21:16:38 <pupnik> sweet
Jan 03 21:16:41 <ali1234> pupnik: about SDL audio, yesterday i built a bunch of emulators for my brand new AMD quad core. the ones that used SDL for audio would use 200% CPU ie two full cores, one for the emulator and one for pulseaudio. so i come to the conclusion SDL + pulse is really badly broken
Jan 03 21:17:00 <woglinde_> ali uahaha
Jan 03 21:17:25 <ali1234> when using alsa or pulse direct it would be 100% for the emulator and <1% for the sound
Jan 03 21:17:53 <pupnik> that symptom is certainly not present with sdl+pulse on fremantle/rx51
Jan 03 21:18:45 <pupnik> sdl works fine with pulse on n900- they patched for that
Jan 03 21:18:45 <ali1234> it is for me, for everything i have compiled that uses SDL sound
Jan 03 21:19:02 <ali1234> it uses 25% to 50% CPU on pulseaudio
Jan 03 21:20:19 <pupnik> all sdl+pulse apps in extras result in pulse using 12-18 percent
Jan 03 21:20:31 <pupnik> try em
Jan 03 21:20:58 <ali1234> which ones?
Jan 03 21:21:24 <pupnik> toppler duke3d dosbox
Jan 03 21:21:35 <pupnik> etc
Jan 03 21:22:38 <pupnik> psx4all too
Jan 03 21:23:40 <ali1234> psx4all makes pulse use at least 25% CPU for me
Jan 03 21:23:58 <ali1234> is suspect it would use more if it was available
Jan 03 21:24:08 <ali1234> the sound stutters horribly as it is
Jan 03 21:25:13 <pupnik> anyway im sorry didnt get it going straight to hardwre yet
Jan 03 21:26:03 <ali1234> 15% with duke-3d
Jan 03 21:26:10 <ali1234> and why does duke constantly run forwards??
Jan 03 21:26:29 <pupnik> bug.  disable accel in config
Jan 03 21:28:19 <ali1234> how do i quit? argh
Jan 03 21:28:23 <ali1234> i hate programs like this
Jan 03 21:28:41 <pupnik> it told you on intro screen
Jan 03 21:28:48 <ali1234> lol
Jan 03 21:28:51 <ali1234> well, i killed it
Jan 03 21:28:52 <pupnik> ctrl backsp
Jan 03 21:29:01 <ali1234> huh, it didn't work then, cos i tried that
Jan 03 21:29:03 <pupnik> iirc
Jan 03 21:29:43 <ali1234> i have a feeling that pulse CPU usage increases with CPU load from other apps
Jan 03 21:29:52 <pupnik> sorry shift backspace
Jan 03 21:30:18 <ali1234> i notice duke 3d only uses about 20% itself
Jan 03 21:30:47 <pupnik> yeah its not meant to be a pandora
Jan 03 21:30:58 <pupnik> so fine
Jan 03 21:31:03 <pupnik> it wont be one
Jan 03 21:31:45 <shinkamui> pupnik
Jan 03 21:31:53 <shinkamui> what where those C flags again?
Jan 03 21:32:23 <shinkamui> should I put them with the release flags -02
Jan 03 21:32:28 <pupnik> dunno offhand
Jan 03 21:33:01 <pupnik> you are probably 1/2 speed atm :)
Jan 03 21:33:20 <konttori> ali1234: try pluggin gin the headphones. puls should drop down
Jan 03 21:33:34 <Creteil> hi all
Jan 03 21:33:39 <ali1234> i'll give it a go i suppose
Jan 03 21:34:40 <Creteil> is there a way to autorun applications at startup, for example I want phone, calendar and contacts started when my N900 start ...
Jan 03 21:38:18 <Creteil> allo ?
Jan 03 21:38:29 <Creteil> someone up, I'm lagged ?
Jan 03 21:38:50 <cehteh> :P
Jan 03 21:39:04 <ali1234> konttori: seems to drop pulse usage from 20% to 10%
Jan 03 21:39:04 <cehteh> there is a calendar desktop widget
Jan 03 21:39:24 <ali1234> oh no, it's gone back up now
Jan 03 21:39:31 <cehteh> if you really want to start apps you have to figure out if there is a .xsession or so ..
Jan 03 21:39:54 <konttori> ali1234: well, pulseaudio should not be doing much when you have headphones plugged in
Jan 03 21:40:17 <papo> hm
Jan 03 21:40:30 <papo> "In addition to the data you'll get, the best is not to collect data on the phone where the application is installed at each charging, so the estimation will remain the closest of the reality ?" <- does anyone understand what this means?
Jan 03 21:40:34 <ali1234> when you use SDL audio, it pretends to be an alsa device, so it's doing that
Jan 03 21:41:08 <frals> hmm, wonder what the 300kb MMS size limit is all about in my n95.. just sent myself a 1mb picture from the n900 by mistake :D
Jan 03 21:41:35 <SpeedEvil> papo: what app
Jan 03 21:42:03 <papo> SpeedEvil: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=451640 that's the context
Jan 03 21:42:30 <RevdKathy> Goodnight, all :)
Jan 03 21:42:53 <woglinde_> bite kathy
Jan 03 21:42:57 <woglinde_> ups nite
Jan 03 21:43:24 <Creteil> cehteh, it look like there is some things to tune in '/etc/event.d' to acheive what I want ...
Jan 03 21:43:40 <SpeedEvil> I thinkhe's trying to say that your app may use some power.
Jan 03 21:43:45 <cehteh> i rather wonder why you want that?
Jan 03 21:44:20 <papo> SpeedEvil: Hm yes
Jan 03 21:44:36 <Creteil> cehteh, why not ?
Jan 03 21:45:06 <pupnik> 
Jan 03 21:45:13 <pupnik> 
Jan 03 21:45:25 <cehteh> running apps need more power, starting apps is quick, and imo navigation to many running apps is not very good solved
Jan 03 21:46:41 <lcuk> frals
Jan 03 21:46:45 <lcuk> was wondering about that
Jan 03 21:46:55 <lcuk> its most likely a limitation atdest end
Jan 03 21:47:08 <lcuk> most phones expect reduced size, but allow multi photos
Jan 03 21:47:39 <frals> yeah
Jan 03 21:48:26 <pupnik> -Wall -mfpu=neon -ffast-math -ftree-vectorize -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfloat-abi=softfp -Os -fomit-frame-pointer  shinkamui - these should give good results
Jan 03 21:48:52 <pupnik> or -O2 with that
Jan 03 21:49:24 <shinkamui> thanks pupnik
Jan 03 21:49:34 <shinkamui> adding them to the scons script now
Jan 03 21:50:07 <pupnik> eh, ignore the first
Jan 03 21:53:24 <shinkamui> pupnik
Jan 03 21:53:34 <shinkamui> im rebuilding with your strings and -04
Jan 03 21:54:09 <pupnik> the cpu and fpu are important i think
Jan 03 21:54:22 <shinkamui> fpu especially
Jan 03 21:54:30 <shinkamui> bu tI did specify the cortex-a8 too
Jan 03 21:54:36 <shinkamui> I was gonna do that im glad you mentioned it
Jan 03 21:54:40 <pupnik> ah then there won't be a huge win
Jan 03 21:54:51 <pupnik> k
Jan 03 21:55:07 <shinkamui> I hope that fast-math makes a big difference
Jan 03 21:55:20 <shinkamui> and the original build I showed the video of didn't have the cpu specified
Jan 03 21:55:20 <cehteh> blender still? :)
Jan 03 21:55:24 <shinkamui> it was just an 02 build
Jan 03 21:55:31 <shinkamui> cehteh yep
Jan 03 21:55:36 <shinkamui> blender until I get it working
Jan 03 21:55:41 <shinkamui> then Ill move to the next project
Jan 03 21:55:42 <shinkamui> :)
Jan 03 21:55:43 <shinkamui> gimp!
Jan 03 21:55:45 <shinkamui> :)
Jan 03 21:55:50 <cehteh> haha
Jan 03 21:55:53 <SpeedEvil> folding@home
Jan 03 21:56:02 <cehteh> folding@pocket
Jan 03 21:56:16 <cehteh> better seti ..
Jan 03 21:56:31 <cehteh> search interterrestical intelligence near your balls :)
Jan 03 21:57:38 <PBeck> hum i get that error when i log into the terminal -sh: /etc/bash_completion: line 49: syntax error: Bad substitution
Jan 03 21:57:49 <PBeck> and my ssh server will not star because he cant find keys in /etc
Jan 03 21:58:02 <PBeck> what is full? :) rootfs has 89 %
Jan 03 21:58:12 <cehteh> 100% is full :)
Jan 03 21:58:22 <cehteh> or /dev/full
Jan 03 21:58:31 <PBeck> cehteh: yeah i have no idea
Jan 03 21:58:45 <PBeck> anythink is defect
Jan 03 21:59:03 <cehteh> possibly .. just disable bash completion
Jan 03 21:59:14 <PBeck> cehteh: it has worked before
Jan 03 21:59:19 <cehteh> did you copied some profile / bashrc or so over?
Jan 03 21:59:45 <PBeck> yes, but it has worked - i think a program has damaged anythink
Jan 03 22:00:05 <cehteh> note that bash is 2.05b only ..
Jan 03 22:00:35 <PBeck> cehteh: thats not the problem it has worked before without problems
Jan 03 22:00:39 <PBeck> i think its a game
Jan 03 22:00:43 <cehteh> if some new programms install newer completion engines which require features not present in that old bash then it will likely barf with that error
Jan 03 22:01:05 <cehteh>  /etc/bash_completion: line 49: s
Jan 03 22:01:12 <cehteh> .. look at that file, whats there?
Jan 03 22:02:56 <PBeck> UNAME=${UNAME/CYGWIN_*/Cygwin}
Jan 03 22:03:35 <cehteh> i tinhk ${} is a newer bash feature
Jan 03 22:03:39 <cehteh> comment that line out
Jan 03 22:03:51 <cehteh> err
Jan 03 22:04:04 <PBeck> -sh: /etc/bash_completion: line 53: syntax error: Bad substitution
Jan 03 22:04:09 <cehteh> i mean tha // replacement
Jan 03 22:04:22 <SpeedEvil>  // is old
Jan 03 22:04:25 <SpeedEvil> IIRC
Jan 03 22:04:30 <cehteh> 2.05?
Jan 03 22:04:45 <PBeck> # <= is actual
Jan 03 22:05:02 <cehteh> lemme try
Jan 03 22:05:21 <PBeck> i think its a other error
Jan 03 22:05:38 <PBeck> the system was running ok and then - that problem
Jan 03 22:05:57 <cehteh> yesh ${//} works
Jan 03 22:07:07 <cehteh> is UNAME defined?
Jan 03 22:07:16 <cehteh> well debug that by yourself ;P
Jan 03 22:07:35 <PBeck> cehteh: sorry ;)
Jan 03 22:15:26 <PBeck> cehteh: i have now bash_completition in .bashrc out commented
Jan 03 22:15:37 <cehteh> and works?
Jan 03 22:15:40 <PBeck> cehteh: should i restart and look? :>
Jan 03 22:16:05 <cehteh> exec bash -l
Jan 03 22:16:50 <PBeck> that is working :)
Jan 03 22:17:18 <PBeck> btw - i have replaced the root shell with chsh for /bin/bash - why can't i do the same for the user?
Jan 03 22:17:39 <cehteh> huh why not?
Jan 03 22:17:52 <cehteh> i'Ve done that too
Jan 03 22:18:25 <cehteh> i also build bash4 recently on the SDK, but not packaged and commented out some features i only need it for a test
Jan 03 22:18:27 <PBeck> cehteh: the prompt say invalid shell
Jan 03 22:18:40 <PBeck> hum argh -.-
Jan 03 22:18:41 <cehteh> chsh -s bash user
Jan 03 22:18:52 <PBeck> oh it works ... ;)
Jan 03 22:19:00 <PBeck> i have thought that it hangs ;)
Jan 03 22:19:20 <PBeck> cehteh: one moment i test
Jan 03 22:20:14 <cehteh> jebba: btw when you build a new kernel can you switch the io scheduler to the deadline scheduler (or noop)
Jan 03 22:20:56 <cehteh> i wonder why nokia didnt tweaked that, its just trivial
Jan 03 22:21:17 <PBeck> cehteh: hey thats works - the user can't change the shell?
Jan 03 22:21:34 <PBeck> cehteh: i have to be root to change it
Jan 03 22:21:38 <cehteh> depends on the setup chsh must be suid root
Jan 03 22:21:53 <PBeck> ah ok thank you cehteh :)
Jan 03 22:22:00 <PBeck> cehteh: has you coreutils running?
Jan 03 22:22:23 <PBeck> busybox is a bit ... minimalistic ;)
Jan 03 22:22:40 <cehteh> nope
Jan 03 22:22:53 <cehteh> well prolly installed is just use whats there :P
Jan 03 22:23:00 <cehteh> missing 'less' somewhat
Jan 03 22:24:35 <PBeck> cehteh: hehe here the same ;) I miss the colour of ls :(
Jan 03 22:25:06 <PBeck> cehteh: and a few commands :( hum i have to look for a package
Jan 03 22:27:36 <SpeedEvil> less is there
Jan 03 22:27:44 <SpeedEvil> in the tools repo
Jan 03 22:29:38 <PBeck> so ok i have to go to bed now ;)
Jan 03 22:30:05 <PBeck> six hours musst be enough for sleep ;)
Jan 03 22:30:15 <PBeck> bye bye thank you cehteh
Jan 03 22:30:52 <jebba> cehteh: i built a new kernel that included the other schedulers. I think that can be changed dynamically, no?
Jan 03 22:30:55 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: uhm i is there an extensive list of available repos?
Jan 03 22:31:16 <jebba> cehteh: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Keymap
Jan 03 22:31:19 <cehteh> jebba: yes, but the others dont make much sense for flash devices
Jan 03 22:31:28 <jebba> anyway, they are all available right now
Jan 03 22:31:54 <cehteh> just bloat the kernel :P .. imo deadline could be compiled in and leave all others out
Jan 03 22:33:27 <lcuk> cehteh, http://repository.maemo.org/
Jan 03 22:33:37 <cehteh> jebba: S-Space works nice for tab
Jan 03 22:34:33 <cehteh> ah tools is from the diablo repository
Jan 03 22:39:56 <SpeedEvil> deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free non-free
Jan 03 22:40:06 <jebba> cehteh: heh, i meant to paste you http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Repositories  not the keymap one, but thanks for the good suggesoin! much better;)
Jan 03 22:41:01 <dimitris82z> hi all
Jan 03 22:41:24 <dimitris82z> i am using fedora 12 X64 is there any tutorials or howto install maemo 5 SDK ?
Jan 03 22:41:40 <cehteh> jebba: thanks
Jan 03 22:41:48 <dimitris82z> i got a fatal error on gui installer py
Jan 03 22:42:17 <TTilus> whats the current status with n900 + nokia su-8w bw keyboard?
Jan 03 22:43:08 <TTilus> this is the "best" ive seen by this far http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33397
Jan 03 22:43:08 <dimitris82z> i am getting this message: Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!
Jan 03 22:43:25 <cehteh> jebba: escape on shift return .. i found some keys which have no shift assignment yet .. and for emacs you need escape
Jan 03 22:43:30 <TTilus> but it still gets me nowhere with fn-keys and "blue" keys
Jan 03 22:44:43 <jebba> dimitris82z: see here for docs on using 64bit fedora12 SDK:  http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Repositories
Jan 03 22:44:49 <v2px_> damn :( i forgot my n900 lockcode
Jan 03 22:44:51 <jebba> gah wrong paste again ;)
Jan 03 22:44:59 <jebba> dimitris82z: see here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/SDK
Jan 03 22:45:32 <dimitris82z> jebba, thnx man i tried from Gerard Braad howto
Jan 03 22:45:35 <jebba> cehteh: i'm trying to figure out how to get it to work in the console (e.g. for mer/fedora)
Jan 03 22:45:43 <jebba> dunno that one
Jan 03 22:45:47 <dimitris82z> jebba, i will try yours now :P
Jan 03 22:45:59 <cehteh> getting what to work?
Jan 03 22:46:13 <jebba> v2px_: search for jack the ripper on how to recover your lockcode  in talk.maemo.org
Jan 03 22:46:39 <dimitris82z> see ya later
Jan 03 22:46:41 <jebba> cehteh: well, no - !123456789 / etc because no Fn (RALT) key in console. Hard to do anything
Jan 03 22:47:04 <cehteh> ah
Jan 03 22:47:23 <cehteh> framebuffer console
Jan 03 22:47:31 <v2px_> jebba: thanks!
Jan 03 22:48:30 <jebba> np
Jan 03 22:49:49 <dmj7261> Kamui: Have you checked to see if Blender is a non-compositing window?
Jan 03 22:49:59 <dmj7261> I've heard that can boost performance.
Jan 03 22:50:02 <shinkamui> hey
Jan 03 22:50:11 <shinkamui> its not
Jan 03 22:50:18 <shinkamui> its in a compositing window
Jan 03 22:50:27 <cehteh> heh turn that off :)
Jan 03 22:50:36 <shinkamui> it continues to run even when the screen is expose'd
Jan 03 22:50:39 <cehteh> there are hints on the formum how too
Jan 03 22:51:02 <cehteh> also opengles has some limitations which may need some porting for performance
Jan 03 22:51:06 <dmj7261> You should try making it non-composited, and keep it that way if it's noticeably faster
Jan 03 22:51:16 <cehteh> using integer math instead of floats in some cases and so on
Jan 03 22:52:11 <lcuk> key point #1 with optimization, simplify, reduce the layers.
Jan 03 22:53:01 <N900evil> I misread that as lawyers
Jan 03 22:53:59 <lcuk> that too
Jan 03 22:54:58 <dmj726_n900> but lawyers a just so efficient.
Jan 03 22:55:34 <lcuk> true, but lawyers are best used as webservers
Jan 03 22:55:46 <lcuk> they can serve 1000s of pages a second
Jan 03 22:56:07 <shinkamui> pupnik no luck, even with compilier optimizations, no speed increase
Jan 03 22:56:14 <shinkamui> lag is still around 1 second after click
Jan 03 22:56:29 <shinkamui> definately going to need to use an opengl->opengles warpper
Jan 03 22:56:31 <shinkamui> wrapper
Jan 03 22:56:32 <shinkamui> :(
Jan 03 22:56:56 <dmj726_n900> shinkamui: once you have optimized performance, you might make some new default views
Jan 03 22:57:11 <dmj726_n900> aww
Jan 03 22:57:26 <shinkamui> dmj7261 well, new views might not help yet
Jan 03 22:57:35 <shinkamui> I got the blenderpocket wrapper code
Jan 03 22:57:47 <shinkamui> the author told me he did that because of the opengl floating point issue
Jan 03 22:57:51 <pupnik> shinkamui: blender needs mesa to draw wireframes too?
Jan 03 22:57:59 <shinkamui> opengles apparently uses fixed point math transparently
Jan 03 22:58:01 <dmj726_n900> no, but they might make things easier , less cluttered
Jan 03 22:58:05 <cehteh> isnt that what i just saied :)
Jan 03 22:58:24 <shinkamui> pupnik, that I don't know, but I wish mesa had a fixed point build option :)
Jan 03 22:58:40 <pupnik> using mesa for anything is fail
Jan 03 22:58:46 <pupnik> anything
Jan 03 22:59:09 <pupnik> its not meant for that
Jan 03 22:59:25 <lcuk> is the whole ui done in gl?
Jan 03 22:59:30 <shinkamui> yep
Jan 03 22:59:41 <lcuk> ok, can you reduce the density of polygons
Jan 03 22:59:48 <lcuk> or is it already minimal
Jan 03 22:59:50 <shinkamui> yep
Jan 03 22:59:55 <cehteh> nah ..
Jan 03 22:59:59 <shinkamui> there is nothing on the screen
Jan 03 23:00:01 <lcuk> amn, was tihnking like the options you get in games
Jan 03 23:00:02 <shinkamui> the UI is slow
Jan 03 23:00:07 <lcuk> turning aa off and stuff
Jan 03 23:00:21 <lcuk> i need a new new keyboard
Jan 03 23:00:37 <cehteh> you will never get it to reasonable performance when you use the wrong gl way .. you have to port it to gles
Jan 03 23:00:55 <shinkamui> yea, I think thats right cehteh
Jan 03 23:01:06 <shinkamui> luckily I have the blenderpocket gles wrapper code ;)
Jan 03 23:01:16 <cehteh> yes that might help
Jan 03 23:01:23 <shinkamui> its just a bit daunting, I dont know where to begin
Jan 03 23:01:31 <shinkamui> he was able to work off of the microsoft standard opengl lib
Jan 03 23:01:43 <shinkamui> I dont know if I should start wrapping the gl functions in mesa or what
Jan 03 23:02:12 <cehteh> i dont know either
Jan 03 23:02:16 <shinkamui> and then the big question is what library do I need for opengles
Jan 03 23:02:27 <shinkamui> obviously this code has to link to a library
Jan 03 23:02:36 <cehteh> maybe you can just make a LD_PRELOAD lib from that? .. then it becomes useable for other projects too
Jan 03 23:04:56 <jebba> If you have a kernel with a framebuffer console, you can get the console login thusly:
Jan 03 23:04:56 <jebba> sudo /sbin/getty 38400 tty3
Jan 03 23:04:56 <jebba> sudo chvt 3
Jan 03 23:05:46 <pupnik> why does entering text in google or youtube or elsewhere cause a 5-7 second delay before I see what I type?
Jan 03 23:06:08 <cehteh> thats new
Jan 03 23:06:58 <dmj726_n900> shinkamui: a general opengl to gles wrapper would be good for porting games too.
Jan 03 23:09:06 <lardman> night all
Jan 03 23:10:21 <jebba> htop looks rad haha
Jan 03 23:10:43 <shinkamui> yes it would dmj7261
Jan 03 23:10:54 <shinkamui> I wonder if this works out ok if I can turn it into a wrapper
Jan 03 23:10:57 <shinkamui> a general warpper
Jan 03 23:10:58 <shinkamui> wrapper
Jan 03 23:11:25 <shinkamui> im just not fluent in opengl, I've only done a little ogl programming some years ago when I was interested
Jan 03 23:11:36 <shinkamui> so it would probably be up to the community to keep upgrading it
Jan 03 23:13:37 <shinkamui> damn my N900 is acting stupid
Jan 03 23:13:44 <shinkamui> keeps disconnecting from my wireless and going edge
Jan 03 23:13:52 <pupnik> please fix text entry in browser
Jan 03 23:14:08 <pupnik> i am sick of my text going into URL addressbar
Jan 03 23:14:48 <shinkamui> yea I get that too if I dont doubletap in teh entry box to be sure
Jan 03 23:15:26 <shinkamui> would be nic e if in the new firmware update, nokia also repartitions root to have about 100 extra megs
Jan 03 23:16:14 <N900evil> they can't
Jan 03 23:16:18 <shinkamui> i keep dropping into the 95% full range
Jan 03 23:16:23 <shinkamui> why cant they
Jan 03 23:16:38 <shinkamui> it seems to me that that usb flash mode is the best time to repartition
Jan 03 23:16:41 <N900evil>  / is on a 256m device
Jan 03 23:16:44 <shinkamui> or is it a completely different chip
Jan 03 23:16:48 <shinkamui> oh
Jan 03 23:16:51 <shinkamui> painful
Jan 03 23:18:54 <ShadowJK> be sure to reply to the threads/bugs/etc asking for people who fill their / to rwport what they've installed
Jan 03 23:19:25 <N900evil> I want the LED torch to come on automatically if I open the shutter and kill the camera app immediately.
Jan 03 23:19:48 <cehteh> look at /etc/systemui/*
Jan 03 23:20:07 <cehteh> you can disabled the camera app
Jan 03 23:20:19 <cehteh> and possibly enable a torch app there
Jan 03 23:20:42 <lcuk> N900evil, hat happens if you want to take a picture
Jan 03 23:20:45 <cehteh> using the flash when the shutter is open for the alarm clock would also be nice
Jan 03 23:21:11 <N900evil> lcuk, and kill the camera app within 5s say
Jan 03 23:21:51 <cehteh> and you never forget to close the shutter then :)
Jan 03 23:22:00 <N900evil> or open, closeshutter, open
Jan 03 23:22:49 <N900evil> ceh900, never open it randomly if I don't want to use cam or LED
Jan 03 23:23:48 <N900evil> And only if vcam is killed immediately after opening.
Jan 03 23:26:43 * lcuk thinks all this is solved with a simple little torch icon in the camera ap
Jan 03 23:26:44 <lcuk> p
Jan 03 23:26:44 <N900evil> gettujng almolst to ther olkijunt where I cahn type with eyes shur
Jan 03 23:26:51 <N900evil> oooh
Jan 03 23:26:52 <cehteh> note that the flashlight also has a dimmer 'indicator' mode ..
Jan 03 23:27:10 <N900evil> that's bettrer than I thought
Jan 03 23:27:26 <N900evil> :)
Jan 03 23:27:28 <cehteh> might be already bright enough for some things
Jan 03 23:27:33 <N900evil> yeah
Jan 03 23:27:36 <lcuk> and since its in process, it knows when should be on/off
Jan 03 23:27:42 <lcuk> and wont get mixed up or fucked up
Jan 03 23:27:48 <lcuk> and most of all, it will be
Jan 03 23:27:49 <lcuk> INTUITIVE
Jan 03 23:28:21 <angasule> note to nokia: cleaning clothes should NOT look like paper napkins one would find in a 5th grader's birthday party, those tend to get thrown into the waste bin (luckily I was able to retrieve it in time...)
Jan 03 23:28:25 <cehteh> well flashlight sucks a lot of power, so i prefer to make turning it on a very explicit action
Jan 03 23:28:40 <N900evil> not that much
Jan 03 23:28:49 <N900evil> 1W or so
Jan 03 23:29:14 <N900evil> 4h or so.
Jan 03 23:29:20 <N900evil> err
Jan 03 23:29:24 <N900evil> no
Jan 03 23:29:24 <cehteh> maybe 2w ..
Jan 03 23:29:42 <cehteh> i didnt calculated .. but thats already quite a lot for the device
Jan 03 23:29:42 <N900evil> 1W at flash mode.
Jan 03 23:30:05 <cehteh> i doubt... flash is brighter than my 5W led headtorch
Jan 03 23:30:10 <N900evil> 50mA at 3.5v
Jan 03 23:30:35 <cehteh> its more than 50ma
Jan 03 23:30:49 <cehteh> times 2 leds .. (7Volt or whatever)
Jan 03 23:30:55 <lcuk> cehteh, flash is brighter than the sun
Jan 03 23:30:58 <N900evil> Old LEDs may be 10 percent as efficient.
Jan 03 23:31:05 <N900evil> hmm
Jan 03 23:31:12 <N900evil> series is pposible
Jan 03 23:31:13 <lcuk> i bet nokia engineers are currently investigating n900 sharp connection addons
Jan 03 23:31:17 <lcuk> shark
Jan 03 23:31:23 <cehteh> yes but i rememmber from the datasheet that torch mode is more than 50ma
Jan 03 23:31:28 <N900evil> no
Jan 03 23:31:30 <cehteh> 100 or 150ma
Jan 03 23:31:34 <crashanddie> ~seen qwerty12
Jan 03 23:31:36 <infobot> qwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 31d 5h 7m 37s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'.
Jan 03 23:31:39 <N900evil> must be less than
Jan 03 23:32:14 <crashanddie> ~seen qwertyn900
Jan 03 23:32:16 <infobot> i haven't seen 'qwertyn900', crashanddie
Jan 03 23:32:23 <lcuk> crashanddie, tmo
Jan 03 23:32:24 <crashanddie> ~seen qwerty900
Jan 03 23:32:25 <infobot> i haven't seen 'qwerty900', crashanddie
Jan 03 23:32:39 <crashanddie> lcuk: dunno what's happened, why the hell isn't he on IRC anymore?
Jan 03 23:32:46 <lcuk> ask him
Jan 03 23:32:59 <cehteh> the leds are quite conservatively powered .. less than the chip can deliver
Jan 03 23:33:07 <N900evil> yeah - limit is 50mA
Jan 03 23:33:21 <N900evil> check wiki page
Jan 03 23:33:59 <N900evil> so .35w
Jan 03 23:34:20 <N900evil> or about 10h
Jan 03 23:34:27 <cehteh> how do you get the wattage?
Jan 03 23:34:39 <cehteh> because you dont know the voltage :P
Jan 03 23:34:43 <N900evil> multiply by 7
Jan 03 23:34:51 <cehteh> that was just a guess
Jan 03 23:35:08 <cehteh> could be anything between 6 and 9 volts depending on the leds
Jan 03 23:35:37 <N900evil> White leds all have a forward voltage in the range of 3.4 and 3.9v or so
Jan 03 23:35:49 <cehteh> and the step up circruit has only about 80% efficiency
Jan 03 23:35:56 <N900evil> for singe die devices
Jan 03 23:36:16 <N900evil> covered in 'about'
Jan 03 23:37:33 <N900evil> have proper current measurement setup about 1/2 built
Jan 03 23:56:41 <timeless_mbp> did someone poke me earlier?
Jan 03 23:57:20 * luke-jr pokes timeless_mbp for the heck of it
Jan 03 23:57:28 * timeless_mbp counter-pokes luke-jr 
Jan 03 23:57:30 * jX joins in the poking
Jan 03 23:57:35 <timeless_mbp> hi jX
Jan 03 23:57:38 <jX> sup
Jan 03 23:57:48 <timeless_mbp> it's midnight
Jan 03 23:57:57 * N900evil does not poke timeless_mbp
Jan 03 23:58:11 <jX> it's midnight, do you know where your nokia mobiles are?
Jan 03 23:58:26 <N900evil> yes
Jan 03 23:58:38 * luke-jr stabs timeless_mbp
Jan 03 23:58:45 <luke-jr> N900evil: nope, it's in my pocket
Jan 03 23:58:48 <timeless_mbp> jX: charging
Jan 03 23:58:50 <jX> please dont' stabtimeless.
Jan 03 23:58:53 <jX> we need him
Jan 03 23:58:56 <jX> a little.
Jan 03 23:59:12 <luke-jr> hehe
Jan 03 23:59:14 * timeless_mbp ponders
Jan 03 23:59:14 <timeless_mbp> http://cellphone.gadgetzonia.com/nokia-review-from-windows-mobile-smartphone-round-robin/
Jan 03 23:59:21 <timeless_mbp> claims the n900 has 768mb of 'rom'
Jan 03 23:59:30 <timeless_mbp> can someone please tell me what the heck they're talking about?
Jan 03 23:59:34 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: is $320 for a N900 definitely a scam?
Jan 03 23:59:48 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: 768 MB would be swap
Jan 03 23:59:51 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr: i wouldn't place money on it being a scam
Jan 04 00:00:10 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: hmm... so it could be a legit deal? :D
Jan 04 00:00:14 <timeless_mbp> perhaps
Jan 04 00:00:34 <jX> timeless_mbp: They MEAN OS storage, but they quoted the swap space
Jan 04 00:00:43 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: care to read and comment on a sales chat?
Jan 04 00:00:52 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr: i'll read
Jan 04 00:00:55 <luke-jr> http://pastebin.ca/1736039
Jan 04 00:01:38 <jX> wait, java?
Jan 04 00:01:50 <jX> we have java on the 900?
Jan 04 00:03:23 <timeless_mbp> jX: where?
Jan 04 00:03:45 <jX> The long and the short of it is that the N900 browser can handle just about anything you throw at it. Flash? No problem. Java? Sure thing.
Jan 04 00:03:50 <jX> from that link of yours
Jan 04 00:03:53 <t_s_o> oh crap, cold day in hell moment, openpandora have gone mass production?!
Jan 04 00:04:07 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr: looks like a scam
Jan 04 00:04:46 <timeless_mbp> i would never deal w/ a group that doesn't accept credit card payments
Jan 04 00:05:00 <luke-jr> >_<
Jan 04 00:05:20 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: ok then... do you think there is any chance Nokia would gift me a N900 if I finish porting (real) Linux to N8x0?
Jan 04 00:05:36 <luke-jr> or (alternatively) if I complain loud enough about the false advertising? :P
Jan 04 00:06:30 <ljp> maemo isn't real linux?
Jan 04 00:06:40 <angasule> ROM swap sounds rather useless ^_^
Jan 04 00:06:54 <TTilus> luke-jr: what would count as "real"?
Jan 04 00:06:56 <luke-jr> ljp: Maemo is an OS based on Linux.
Jan 04 00:06:59 <luke-jr> TTilus: kernel.org
Jan 04 00:07:04 <rashed2020> What if you run out of ROM :o
Jan 04 00:07:31 <rashed2020> Has anyone tried compiling fuppes for the N900?
Jan 04 00:07:49 <luke-jr> ljp: Maemo 4, abandoned version that last supported N8x0, is based on a highly modified fork of Linux 2.6.21
Jan 04 00:07:52 <TTilus> luke-jr: ?!  ive been told its a kernel, not an os
Jan 04 00:08:10 <luke-jr> ljp: there is much work involved in porting that fork to Linux now
Jan 04 00:08:18 <luke-jr> TTilus: Linux is a kernel. Maemo is an OS.
Jan 04 00:08:23 <ljp> luke-jr: and us tabout every other distribution has a fork of the kernel as well
Jan 04 00:08:30 <TTilus> luke-jr: yes
Jan 04 00:08:38 <jX> it's an OS AND a kernel! It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping!
Jan 04 00:08:39 <luke-jr> ljp: yes, but every other distro can still *work* with a standard Linux
Jan 04 00:08:41 <luke-jr> except Android
Jan 04 00:08:43 <SpeedEvil> Linux is a sort of cheese.
Jan 04 00:09:05 <zash> Mmmmm... cheeeeeese
Jan 04 00:09:11 <luke-jr> ljp: anyhow, I'm not talkign about porting Maemo4 to Linux, I'm talking about porting Linux to N8x0
Jan 04 00:09:23 <luke-jr> the work involved to do so would cost me over $500
Jan 04 00:09:25 <SpeedEvil> And the screaming noise of a penguin coming at you at mach 4 in the night.
Jan 04 00:09:26 <luke-jr> of time
Jan 04 00:09:28 <jX> lucent: Good news, it's don!
Jan 04 00:09:44 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr: i can't imagine you'd get much of a reward for providing a later linux kernel to an old product
Jan 04 00:10:02 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: ok, so no point doing it :(
Jan 04 00:10:02 <lcuk> luke-jr, you really shouldv just signed up for the summit
Jan 04 00:10:09 <ljp> so proprietary drivers make it a fake linux?
Jan 04 00:10:13 <TTilus> timeless_mbp: i prolly would  ;)  (have n810)
Jan 04 00:10:14 <luke-jr> lcuk: signing up was enough??
Jan 04 00:10:20 <luke-jr> lcuk: I can't leave the country at this time...
Jan 04 00:10:35 <lcuk> and luke-jr isnt the mer project designed to deal with the case you are wanting to recover
Jan 04 00:10:36 <luke-jr> ljp: proprietary or open, it is a fork thereof
Jan 04 00:10:48 <luke-jr> lcuk: and I am the only person on the Mer project even looking at possibly doing it
Jan 04 00:11:00 * lcuk nods
Jan 04 00:11:05 <jX> oh, this is luke, I remember now.
Jan 04 00:11:09 <luke-jr> but doing it would only be for my own benefit, and with the work needed costing most than a new N900, that goes into question
Jan 04 00:11:12 <ljp> luke-jr: and because its a fork, its fake?
Jan 04 00:11:25 <luke-jr> ljp: I didn't use the word fake, you did.
Jan 04 00:11:50 <ljp> you used 'real linux' which means somethine else is 'fake linux'
Jan 04 00:12:46 <luke-jr> ljp: I used 'real linux' to more clearly distinct it from 'linux and forks of linux' that people tend to assume if you just say 'linux'
Jan 04 00:12:57 <TTilus> *sig* ... ive got igo stowaway and nokia su-8w and NEITHER works with n900  :-/
Jan 04 00:13:03 * lcuk shakily puts a hand in the air
Jan 04 00:13:06 <jX> luke-jr: Can you please name for me one actual FORK of linux?
Jan 04 00:13:17 <TTilus> damn!
Jan 04 00:13:20 <crashanddie> luke-jr: you're just too funny
Jan 04 00:13:25 <jX> as opposed to your politically skewed designations?
Jan 04 00:14:32 <TTilus> jX: just let it be ... puh-leese
Jan 04 00:14:33 <jX> because every time you say things like fork, I feel like Inigo Montyoa. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Jan 04 00:14:52 <jX> TTilus: I try, I really do...
Jan 04 00:14:58 <crashanddie> ~jX++
Jan 04 00:15:02 <luke-jr> jX: Maemo's Linux
Jan 04 00:15:07 <jX> not a fork,.
Jan 04 00:15:09 <jX> try again.
Jan 04 00:15:18 <luke-jr> jX: if it's not a fork, what is it?
Jan 04 00:15:23 <jX> it's a distribution
Jan 04 00:15:25 <jX> try again.
Jan 04 00:15:27 <crashanddie> luke-jr: there's a *massive* difference between a fork and a distributioun
Jan 04 00:15:35 <crashanddie> s/oun/on/
Jan 04 00:15:35 <infobot> crashanddie meant: luke-jr: there's a *massive* difference between a fork and a distribution
Jan 04 00:15:45 <luke-jr> jX: Maemo is a distribution, which includes a kernel that is a fork of Linux
Jan 04 00:15:50 <jX> nope
Jan 04 00:15:51 <jX> not a fork
Jan 04 00:15:52 <jX> sorry
Jan 04 00:15:52 <luke-jr> yes
Jan 04 00:15:53 <jX> try again
Jan 04 00:16:13 <lcuk> a fork would have a new name
Jan 04 00:16:16 <crashanddie> luke-jr: a fork literally means they take the codebase at one point, and completely separate from it -- naming it something else, and working on it privately.
Jan 04 00:16:17 <luke-jr> so you claim it's not a fork unless it has a new name?
Jan 04 00:16:35 <luke-jr> crashanddie: except for a new name, Maemo's kernel is just that
Jan 04 00:16:35 <jX> you can't claim it's a fork unless it's being developed ina an intirely new direction
Jan 04 00:16:39 <luke-jr> Maemo4's*
Jan 04 00:16:41 <jX> like freebsd and openbsd
Jan 04 00:16:51 <TTilus> jX: i think luke-jr tries to say he thinks linux that goes with maemo4 is big (and dead end?) enough a patchset to be considered a fork
Jan 04 00:16:52 <jX> or the various unixes of old
Jan 04 00:16:56 <lcuk> luke, slow down a bit
Jan 04 00:17:03 <crashanddie> however, the Linux kernel that ships with Maemo is still entirely based on the Linux kernel. Personalising it and tailoring it doesn't make it a fork. Welcome to Linux.
Jan 04 00:17:06 <jX> TTilus: no, he calls anythign that isn't 100% GPL a fork
Jan 04 00:17:21 <jX> which gets irritating after a while.
Jan 04 00:17:26 <TTilus> jX: umm, you have it ;)
Jan 04 00:17:28 <luke-jr> anything not part of mainline is a fork per definition
Jan 04 00:17:29 <jX> it's like a tiny RMS here in channel.
Jan 04 00:17:30 <lcuk> so th maemo 4 kernel has custom modifications which make it in compatible with the stock kernel?
Jan 04 00:17:40 <luke-jr> lcuk: yes, many
Jan 04 00:17:44 <TTilus> jX: definitely better analysis than mine
Jan 04 00:18:05 <lcuk> is it all better now in n900?
Jan 04 00:18:14 * timeless_mbp sighs and pulls up iPlayer
Jan 04 00:18:19 <angasule> umh, great, if I try USB networking the n810 reboots when I remove the USB, I'm thinking it has to do with the fact that I'm booting from the internal memory
Jan 04 00:18:19 * jX snorts a little n900 and everything is better
Jan 04 00:18:20 * lcuk laffs
Jan 04 00:18:22 <crashanddie> luke-jr: In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering, a project fork happens when developers take a copy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_code from one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_software and start independent development on it, creating a distinct piece of software.
Jan 04 00:18:35 <crashanddie> game, set and match
Jan 04 00:18:45 <kpel> #does N900 make coffee? :P
Jan 04 00:18:45 * jX raises crashanddie's hand in victory
Jan 04 00:18:48 <lcuk> crashanddie, technically there is a point before where the codebranch is a fork in all but name
Jan 04 00:18:52 <luke-jr> crashanddie: which Nokia did to make Maemo's kernel
Jan 04 00:19:08 <timeless_mbp> ooh, flubber is showing
Jan 04 00:19:23 <jX> timeless: Well then zip up your pants, no one wants to see your flubber
Jan 04 00:19:25 <lcuk> luke-jr, one very important question
Jan 04 00:19:34 <lcuk> how is the n810 kernel related to you wanting an n900
Jan 04 00:19:36 <timeless_mbp> jX: do you remember flubber?
Jan 04 00:19:38 <crashanddie> luke-jr: you may be a cool guy sometimes, but for fuck's sake, stop trying to be RMS
Jan 04 00:19:50 <jX> timeless: The original with Ed MacMurray or the remakes with Eddie Murphy?
Jan 04 00:19:52 <luke-jr> the end point is, the work required to port Linux to N8x0 is extensive and not worth my effort unless I get reimbursed somehow :/
Jan 04 00:20:04 <luke-jr> crashanddie: WTF does RMS have anything to do with this?
Jan 04 00:20:07 <jX> luke-jr: I'll reimburse you... IN RAPE DOLLARS!
Jan 04 00:20:09 <timeless_mbp> jX: i think the remake is robin williams
Jan 04 00:20:13 <timeless_mbp> but i prefer the original(s)
Jan 04 00:20:18 <luke-jr> lcuk: N900 would be reimbursement worth porting Linux to N8x0
Jan 04 00:20:29 <lcuk> my n810 has linux on it
Jan 04 00:20:30 <jX> http://danarchy.youfailit.net/Spiderman/spidey14.jpg
Jan 04 00:20:36 <crashanddie> luke-jr: you acting like him. Just accept the definition of a word, and stop fighting windmills.
Jan 04 00:20:39 <luke-jr> I could spend my time doing other work and earn $$$ to buy a N900 instead, of course.
Jan 04 00:20:40 * lcuk gets off the merry go round
Jan 04 00:20:49 <luke-jr> but then N8x0 will never get a Linux port
Jan 04 00:20:57 <luke-jr> unless someone else feels like wasting their time, anyhow
Jan 04 00:20:57 <jX> it HAS linux ports
Jan 04 00:21:06 <jX> lucent: you can install Debian on the 810 already
Jan 04 00:21:19 <lcuk> the n810 has linux distros coming out of its teeth
Jan 04 00:21:29 <luke-jr> jX: no, it doesn't. Nobody has managed to run a single 2009 Linux on it.
Jan 04 00:21:35 <TTilus> jX: now luke-jr prolly points out debian's linux being o fork being
Jan 04 00:21:40 <TTilus> oops
Jan 04 00:21:40 <ljp> my 810 has dentures
Jan 04 00:21:41 <jX> there's no such think as a "2009 linux"
Jan 04 00:21:45 <jX> linux is not a car
Jan 04 00:21:49 <crashanddie> wtf is a 2009 Linux?
Jan 04 00:22:00 <luke-jr> well, maybe Q1
Jan 04 00:22:03 * jX thinks luke-jr is 14
Jan 04 00:22:06 <luke-jr> and I'm including Linux forks/variants in that
Jan 04 00:22:17 <lcuk> didnt carsten get some sort of linux running on it
Jan 04 00:22:21 <crashanddie> yes
Jan 04 00:22:25 <lcuk> and didnt you get gentoo on it
Jan 04 00:22:26 <luke-jr> jX: Linux, like all software, has newer versions regularly
Jan 04 00:22:27 <lcuk> with slono
Jan 04 00:22:32 <TTilus> jX: could be older, maybe just late developed
Jan 04 00:22:35 <luke-jr> lcuk: yes, using Maemo's kernel
Jan 04 00:22:44 <luke-jr> lcuk: which is now so old that udev no longer supports it
Jan 04 00:22:52 <lcuk> so the maemo kernel is good enough to bootstrap gentoo?
Jan 04 00:22:52 <jX> no, not regularly, and most software isn't released regularly unless you're counting AV versions and new versions of Madden football.
Jan 04 00:22:53 <lcuk> kickass!
Jan 04 00:23:00 <jX> most software is released irregularly, linux included
Jan 04 00:23:04 <luke-jr> Linux is released quarterly
Jan 04 00:23:10 <jX> LULZ
Jan 04 00:23:18 <TTilus> *muahahaaa*
Jan 04 00:23:24 <lcuk> which quarter is the unstable one
Jan 04 00:23:30 <jX> lol
Jan 04 00:23:53 * jX goes back to playing Duke Nukem Forever
Jan 04 00:23:59 <luke-jr> the point is you cannot download Linux and run it on N810, nor any modern OS that requires it
Jan 04 00:24:03 <crashanddie> it's well known, Linux is released 4 times a year, and coincides with the FSF's fiscal year end
Jan 04 00:24:08 <TTilus> lcuk: might be the fifth?
Jan 04 00:24:20 * ljp really likes the n900... even with all the gtk stuff
Jan 04 00:24:22 <kpel> crashanddie: lol
Jan 04 00:24:32 <luke-jr> the point is that there is a crap ton of work needed to port Maemo's drivers to Linux
Jan 04 00:24:41 <jX> dude
Jan 04 00:24:42 <kpel> that's something different
Jan 04 00:24:43 <jX> stop
Jan 04 00:25:03 <jX> they'rea lready ported to linux. you're talking about putting a new kernel version on, not "linux"
Jan 04 00:25:04 <luke-jr> the point is that it is not logical for me to do it when I could get a N900 for cheaper
Jan 04 00:25:08 <jX> it's already running linux
Jan 04 00:25:20 <luke-jr> jX: no, it's running a fork of Linux
Jan 04 00:25:24 <jX> no, it's not
Jan 04 00:25:29 <luke-jr> you can't download an old version of Linux proper and run that either
Jan 04 00:25:38 <kpel> luke-jr: what about ubuntu? does it  include a fork of linux?
Jan 04 00:25:38 <lcuk> luke-jr, is it feasible to get a *from source* gentoo distro running on n900
Jan 04 00:25:39 <ljp> ok, lets compromise and say it's a spoon of linux
Jan 04 00:25:43 <jX> there IS NO LINUX PROPER
Jan 04 00:25:43 <lcuk> complete and fully standalone
Jan 04 00:25:43 <TTilus> luke-jr: well, if it aint logical, just stop bashing about it here, will you
Jan 04 00:25:44 <luke-jr> it's not like Linux used to support it and now doesn't
Jan 04 00:25:52 <luke-jr> lcuk: yes, should be trivial
Jan 04 00:26:02 <lcuk> gentoo, on my n900?
Jan 04 00:26:02 <crashanddie> luke-jr: you're wrong
Jan 04 00:26:06 <jX> you can't jsut download and run "linux" to start
Jan 04 00:26:08 <luke-jr> jX: if there is no Linux proper, then Linus is nothing
Jan 04 00:26:09 <lcuk> no seb, hold up
Jan 04 00:26:10 <crashanddie> luke-jr: gentoo works on the n810, without the maemo stock kernel
Jan 04 00:26:14 <luke-jr> lcuk: yes
Jan 04 00:26:18 <jX> you have to download the source then compile it for yoru platform
Jan 04 00:26:20 <luke-jr> crashanddie: prove it
Jan 04 00:26:24 <crashanddie> luke-jr: First off, I've switched from the Maemo kernel to the http://www.muru.com/linux/omap/ with the http://www.muru.com/linux/n8x0/ and the http://stlc45xx.garage.maemo.org/. This allows us freedom from the 2.6.21 kernel -- no more patching for old-ABI/EABI problems, and along with this change, we get a proper FN key (yea for digits).
Jan 04 00:26:36 <luke-jr> jX: I'm implying the compile step
Jan 04 00:26:37 <lcuk> luke-jr, could you do the bootmenu stuff?
Jan 04 00:26:43 <lcuk> so i can dualboot
Jan 04 00:26:46 <crashanddie> luke-jr: http://nosocomia.com:8099/n810-gentoo/
Jan 04 00:26:47 <lcuk> gentoo and fremantle?
Jan 04 00:26:54 <luke-jr> lcuk: I would presume so. If you expect me to help with it, I need a N900 first.
Jan 04 00:27:19 <jX> in all seriousness, luke-jr, how old are you?
Jan 04 00:27:24 <luke-jr> crashanddie: that predates even slonopotamus_ and I's port; it's Linux-OMAP, not Linux proper; and finally, it didn't really *work*
Jan 04 00:27:27 <luke-jr> jX: 23
Jan 04 00:27:32 <jX> really?
Jan 04 00:27:43 <luke-jr> jX: married, 3 children, good job
Jan 04 00:27:49 <crashanddie> poor kids
Jan 04 00:27:49 <luke-jr> jX: hence why my time isn't worthless
Jan 04 00:28:21 <jX> interesting. you argue from a point of naivety I don't see often in non-teens. must be political.
Jan 04 00:28:28 <crashanddie> luke-jr: your kids must be having a blast when they learn something at school and you scold at them for being wrong, cuz you learnt something else eh?
Jan 04 00:29:34 <TTilus> luke-jr: umm, then Linux-x86 is not proper?  neither is Linux-PPC
Jan 04 00:29:34 <lcuk> how about, theres a point to what lukes saying even tho his words are wrong
Jan 04 00:29:41 <lcuk> he strives for a 100% open system
Jan 04 00:29:41 <luke-jr> crashanddie: formalized school is neglect; so go troll someone else
Jan 04 00:29:47 <lcuk> and theres nothing wrong with that
Jan 04 00:29:57 <luke-jr> lcuk: this doesn't even have anything to do with open vs closed
Jan 04 00:30:12 <jX> "formalized school is neglect"?
Jan 04 00:30:15 <jX> so, you home school?
Jan 04 00:30:20 <TTilus> crashanddie: pleez, dont...
Jan 04 00:30:28 <luke-jr> Maemo4's kernel is open, except for WiFi which Linux *does* support
Jan 04 00:30:39 <luke-jr> but it's still different enough that the drivers need to be ported
Jan 04 00:30:46 <luke-jr> jX: plan to, anyhow
Jan 04 00:30:49 <luke-jr> jX: oldest is 4
Jan 04 00:30:58 <jX> evangelical by any chance?
Jan 04 00:31:02 <luke-jr> what?
Jan 04 00:31:09 <jX> religion?
Jan 04 00:31:14 <luke-jr> Catholic
Jan 04 00:31:29 <crashanddie> luke-jr: stlc45xx isn't a good choice for the n810 wifi?
Jan 04 00:31:32 <luke-jr> though I have to wonder what it matters
Jan 04 00:31:41 <luke-jr> crashanddie: hm? no, I'd use p54spi
Jan 04 00:31:42 <jX> doesn't MATTER, I'm just trying to build a picture.
Jan 04 00:31:51 <jX> I was Catholic once too.
Jan 04 00:31:57 <jX> politically conservative?
Jan 04 00:32:04 <luke-jr> crashanddie: in case you misread, WiFi is pretty much the *only* perhipheral of N810 that Linux proper supports
Jan 04 00:32:08 <crashanddie> jX: way off topic though now
Jan 04 00:32:25 <luke-jr> jX: you could say I fell off the right side of the political spectrum
Jan 04 00:32:30 <jX> k.
Jan 04 00:32:31 * TTilus puts his children to this dreaded "formalized school"
Jan 04 00:32:33 <jX> thanks for humoring me.
Jan 04 00:32:58 <ljp> i prefer causualized schools
Jan 04 00:33:06 <luke-jr> TTilus: no offense, some parents don't have a real choice. I was just exaggerating it a bit in response to the trolling ;)
Jan 04 00:33:21 <crashanddie> jX: you're not exactly mind-reading :P Anyone who says he has a "good job" and can't waste his time is pretty much on right side :P
Jan 04 00:33:23 <kpel> g'night
Jan 04 00:33:30 <jX> crashanddie: lulz
Jan 04 00:34:00 <lcuk> luke-jr, are you signed up/ applied for hte developer program (is it still on
Jan 04 00:34:03 <TTilus> luke-jr: its a bit country-dependent what "formalized school" actually means
Jan 04 00:34:17 <luke-jr> lcuk: ?
Jan 04 00:34:35 <luke-jr> TTilus: indeed; like I said, I was exaggerating it :P
Jan 04 00:34:45 <TTilus> yup
Jan 04 00:34:55 <luke-jr> though I would love to learn of a country with not totally insane formal schools
Jan 04 00:35:13 <TTilus> luke-jr: "insane"?
Jan 04 00:35:20 <luke-jr> not that I would send my children there, of course. it's still a parent's duty to educate, not some random "teacher"
Jan 04 00:35:23 <TTilus> luke-jr: like performance-wise or?
Jan 04 00:35:32 <luke-jr> TTilus: USA schools are designed for brainwashing and not much more
Jan 04 00:35:37 <luke-jr> creating the perfect slave
Jan 04 00:35:38 <jX> lol, "teacher"
Jan 04 00:35:56 <crashanddie> luke-jr: this being said, I could probably shout you till the middle of next week with regards to how much I hate and despise pretty much all education systems worldwide.
Jan 04 00:35:56 * lcuk gingerly puts his hand up again
Jan 04 00:36:01 <ljp> luke-jr: i would agree with you on duty to educate. too many parents leave that totally to the edu system
Jan 04 00:36:18 <luke-jr> crashanddie: shout at *me*? why me? XD
Jan 04 00:36:34 <TTilus> luke-jr: uhh, here teachers are respected professionals with university degrees and decent pay
Jan 04 00:36:52 <luke-jr> TTilus: universities here are not much better
Jan 04 00:36:58 <crashanddie> luke-jr: it's one of those topics that gets me shouting at anyone
Jan 04 00:36:59 <luke-jr> just extended brainwashing
Jan 04 00:37:38 <luke-jr> neither lower schools nor universities in the USA (in general) actually teach, just brainwash and feed memorization
Jan 04 00:37:39 <lcuk> oh
Jan 04 00:37:56 <lcuk> err
Jan 04 00:38:01 <crashanddie> luke-jr: have you seen Ken Robinson's talk about Education?
Jan 04 00:38:02 <TTilus> luke-jr: of course its my responsibility to get my children educated, and i can count on prolly 95% of "random teachers" being way better teachers than me
Jan 04 00:38:08 <luke-jr> crashanddie: never heard of him
Jan 04 00:38:21 <lcuk> can i undelete stuff in linux?
Jan 04 00:38:24 <crashanddie> luke-jr: http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
Jan 04 00:38:30 <crashanddie> lcuk: not if you rm'd it
Jan 04 00:38:36 <lcuk> :'(
Jan 04 00:38:36 <luke-jr> lcuk: not reasonably. if it's important enoguh to spend days on, you might manage to get something
Jan 04 00:39:08 <luke-jr> I spent about 48 hours one time trying to figure out my RAID-5
Jan 04 00:39:19 <lcuk> i was deleting a folder in
Jan 04 00:39:22 <lcuk> ~
Jan 04 00:39:25 <luke-jr> apparently it needed the 8 drives connected in the same order...
Jan 04 00:39:32 <lcuk> and i caught enter instead of backspace
Jan 04 00:39:44 <luke-jr> 40k possibilities there IIRC
Jan 04 00:39:53 <lcuk> oh theres no raid
Jan 04 00:39:59 <luke-jr> lcuk: RAID is easier ;)
Jan 04 00:40:01 <lcuk> single drive
Jan 04 00:40:10 <luke-jr> just a matter of identifying the correct driver order for RAID
Jan 04 00:40:29 <luke-jr> for files, you need to get an old copy of the directory with the file still in it
Jan 04 00:40:34 <luke-jr> and hope the inode list is intact
Jan 04 00:40:36 <luke-jr> etc
Jan 04 00:40:43 <ssvb> luke-jr: your point about the kernel support is clear, we just need to find some guy whose time is worthless enough to spend it on ensuring that the latest linux kernels always work on N810 :)
Jan 04 00:40:47 <ssvb> luke-jr: and it still does not guarantee that the needed patches will even reach mainline kernel
Jan 04 00:40:52 <ssvb> luke-jr: you can imagine how much efforts it may take once you get your N8x0 board patches for usb support accepted upstream
Jan 04 00:41:03 <luke-jr> ssvb: if someone's time is worthless, I'd bet they lack the skills
Jan 04 00:41:15 <luke-jr> Kalle Valo was working on it last summer, but he seems to have stopped
Jan 04 00:41:21 <ssvb> luke-jr: these were your words :)
Jan 04 00:41:27 <luke-jr> obviously he would be interested as a Nokia employee, but AFAIK they weren't paying him for it :(
Jan 04 00:42:18 <lcuk> ill bbiab
Jan 04 00:42:28 <luke-jr> ssvb: ok
Jan 04 00:43:07 <luke-jr> I guess I just see working extra to save up for a N900 kind of a cop-out and leaving people with N8x0 hanging
Jan 04 00:43:33 <luke-jr> so if possible, I'd rather Nokia just save me that effort and I can agree to spend the same time (and probably more) to get Linux working on N8x0 again
Jan 04 00:43:48 <timeless_mbp_> oops, iPlayer killed my computer
Jan 04 00:44:08 * timeless_mbp_ sighs
Jan 04 00:44:14 <timeless_mbp_> luke-jr: please give this up
Jan 04 00:44:25 <timeless_mbp_> Linux is the only platform that runs on the n8x0
Jan 04 00:44:30 <timeless_mbp_> you can't run symbian on it
Jan 04 00:44:32 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp_: a fork thereof
Jan 04 00:44:34 <timeless_mbp_> or windows
Jan 04 00:44:43 <timeless_mbp_> no, a distribution
Jan 04 00:44:45 <luke-jr> you can't run Linux either.
Jan 04 00:44:52 <timeless_mbp_> all distributions include custom kernels
Jan 04 00:45:02 <timeless_mbp_> and most distributions maintain their custom kernels for some length of time
Jan 04 00:45:03 <luke-jr> they don't require custom kernels
Jan 04 00:45:12 * timeless_mbp_ ponders
Jan 04 00:45:14 <timeless_mbp_> androids do
Jan 04 00:45:21 <timeless_mbp_> the iOpeners did
Jan 04 00:45:34 <luke-jr> and Androids don't claim to be Linux AFAIK
Jan 04 00:45:37 <luke-jr> I don't mess with Android
Jan 04 00:45:38 <timeless_mbp_> well, actually, i can't remember what they ran originally
Jan 04 00:46:19 <jX> luke-jr: Every distro has customizations to their kernels
Jan 04 00:46:21 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp_: anyhow, the fact that Maemo runs on N810 does not change the goal of running Linux on N810 any.
Jan 04 00:46:27 <timeless_mbp_> the eeepc required a custom kernel to use stuff originally too
Jan 04 00:46:30 <luke-jr> jX: how many times must I respond to that?
Jan 04 00:46:46 <jX> as many times as it takes for you to admit your position is wrong.
Jan 04 00:46:46 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp_: the eeepc ran a proprietary fork of Linux, not Linux itself
Jan 04 00:46:54 <luke-jr> jX: this isn't about a position
Jan 04 00:46:57 <luke-jr> it's about a task
Jan 04 00:47:02 <luke-jr> porting Linux to N8x0
Jan 04 00:47:12 <luke-jr> either it will or won't be done.
Jan 04 00:47:12 <timeless_mbp_> it's about a waste of time
Jan 04 00:47:14 <luke-jr> either it will or won't be done by me.
Jan 04 00:47:34 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp_: ok, if that is Nokia's view, then there is no point to me even asking
Jan 04 00:47:34 <jX> it has been done, as we said
Jan 04 00:47:36 <jX> so, move on
Jan 04 00:47:43 <luke-jr> jX: nope
Jan 04 00:47:46 <jX> yup
Jan 04 00:47:48 <timeless_mbp_> i don't speak for nokia
Jan 04 00:47:59 <jX> timeless speaks for nokia
Jan 04 00:48:05 <jX> today is opposite day
Jan 04 00:48:06 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp_: you would know their view better than me. is that it, more or less?
Jan 04 00:48:25 <timeless_mbp_> luke-jr: as a corporation, nokia believes in the future
Jan 04 00:48:32 <timeless_mbp_> that's where the money and market is at
Jan 04 00:48:41 <ljp> s60 doesn't run symbian, either
Jan 04 00:48:43 <luke-jr> how about the future for old devices that they advertised as having that future?
Jan 04 00:48:53 <jX> Nokia belives in the future. We have always been at war with East-Asia
Jan 04 00:49:12 <jX> luke-jr: They have limited future, Nokai has to make a profit, and that doesn't come from updating devices endlessly
Jan 04 00:49:32 <timeless_mbp_> luke-jr: the future is apps, not kernels
Jan 04 00:49:34 <luke-jr> jX: I understand that, and I understand why Nokia would decline the offer.
Jan 04 00:49:37 <jX> the 810 certainly has more potential than last year's Motorola phone, being as open as it is
Jan 04 00:49:44 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp_: apps require kernels.
Jan 04 00:49:49 <timeless_mbp_> rarely
Jan 04 00:49:56 <timeless_mbp_> firefox doesn't need a modern kernel
Jan 04 00:50:03 <timeless_mbp_> open office doesn't need a modern kernel
Jan 04 00:50:39 <luke-jr> they require something
Jan 04 00:50:46 <luke-jr> which will inevitably come down to a kernel
Jan 04 00:50:51 <timeless_mbp_> not a modern one
Jan 04 00:50:53 <timeless_mbp_> just one
Jan 04 00:51:06 <ljp> kernels are overrated
Jan 04 00:51:10 <timeless_mbp_> firefox and friends do appreciate the new thread library
Jan 04 00:51:15 <timeless_mbp_> but beyond that they really do not care
Jan 04 00:51:18 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp_: so we should all just run obsolete versions full of bugs?
Jan 04 00:51:25 <timeless_mbp_> most people do
Jan 04 00:51:29 <timeless_mbp_> but most bugs don't matter
Jan 04 00:51:43 <timeless_mbp_> bugs in browsers sadly do matter
Jan 04 00:51:47 <luke-jr> ah, that explains with N810's GPS is still too buggy to use
Jan 04 00:51:52 <luke-jr> s/with/why
Jan 04 00:52:05 <jX> wfm
Jan 04 00:52:13 <jX> especialyl with the agps doohicker
Jan 04 00:52:26 <ssvb> luke-jr: what makes you think that new kernels are not full of bugs?
Jan 04 00:52:35 <luke-jr> jX: wfm if I play games with it for 15 minutes first
Jan 04 00:52:45 <luke-jr> ssvb: new kernels are required to run any modern OS
Jan 04 00:52:55 <luke-jr> udev no longer supports 2.6.21
Jan 04 00:59:32 <dmj7261> by the way, the eeepcs did need a custom kernel for regular distros like ubuntu, not just that terrible zandros thing
Jan 04 01:00:23 * luke-jr nods.
Jan 04 01:00:35 <dmj7261> *xandros
Jan 04 01:01:25 <dmj7261> at least on my eeepc 900 the vanilla karmic works perfectly out of the box aside from some annoying touchpad defaults
Jan 04 01:01:27 <angasule> what N810 program can take geotagged photographs?
Jan 04 01:04:58 <cehteh> grr
Jan 04 01:05:39 <cehteh> i send my n900 back finally ... reboots, spring came of camera slider and now the charge connector broke
Jan 04 01:07:01 <mza> damn
Jan 04 01:07:09 <mza> sounds like you're pretty hard on phones
Jan 04 01:11:27 <dmj7261> cehteh: that's terrible
Jan 04 01:11:56 <dmj7261> At my house we've had pretty good luck with our n900s so far.
Jan 04 01:12:22 <dmj7261> Although it was very distracting for my mom at dinner today.
Jan 04 01:12:42 <mza> im wondering if my lady would like one
Jan 04 01:12:45 <arachnist> how many of them have you got?
Jan 04 01:12:46 <mza> she's got an e71 now
Jan 04 01:13:05 <dmj7261> I have one, and my mom liked mine enough that she got her own.
Jan 04 01:13:17 <N900evil> I wish there were readymade rigfht angle usb connectors.
Jan 04 01:13:27 <mza> amazon up to $599
Jan 04 01:13:28 <mza> damn
Jan 04 01:13:44 <dmj7261> we got ours from buy.com
Jan 04 01:14:06 <mza> how long did it take to get them?
Jan 04 01:14:14 <dmj7261> A couple days.
Jan 04 01:14:34 <mza> they're sold out:(
Jan 04 01:14:38 <dmj7261> aw
Jan 04 01:15:00 * MaemohammadAG got internal error on the Web application
Jan 04 01:15:15 <dmj7261> Another wonderful example of Nokia underestimating the popularity of the n900
Jan 04 01:15:37 <mza> i saw it for as much as $850 at the mall
Jan 04 01:15:49 <dmj7261> Where was that?
Jan 04 01:16:05 <mza> houston, tx
Jan 04 01:16:08 <mza> the galleria
Jan 04 01:16:32 <Cromag> there is a taco shop or somthing there right ?
Jan 04 01:16:44 <Cromag> a small one, on a conor
Jan 04 01:16:46 <Cromag> coner^*
Jan 04 01:16:50 <dmj7261> I didn't look at the price, since I had my n900 already, but Fry's Electronics had a Nokia end cap with a dummy n900.
Jan 04 01:17:06 <jX> I ordered an N900 from buy.com teh day befor thanksgiving US, canceled it in late december because they had no idea when they'd ship.
Jan 04 01:17:07 <mza> Cromag, houston is full of tex mex
Jan 04 01:17:15 <jX> ordered it from Dell.com on dec 24, got it dec 29.
Jan 04 01:17:19 <dmj7261> I don't think anyone would buy an n900 based on a dummy phone.
Jan 04 01:17:40 <Cromag> mza: yeah, i just remember something - still. 10 years ago or so.
Jan 04 01:17:55 <mza> Cromag, ive only been here 4
Jan 04 01:17:55 <dmj7261> I got mine from buy.com a few days before Dec 19.
Jan 04 01:18:17 <N900evil> nov 30 :)
Jan 04 01:18:46 <N900evil> started diet when ordered phone. down 13Kg
Jan 04 01:18:52 <dmj7261> hehe
Jan 04 01:19:31 <N900evil> another 10 to go.
Jan 04 01:19:33 <jeremiah> Stskeeps: Well, a lot of people just want apps and such. They don't really care so much about SDK and Nokia binaries.
Jan 04 01:19:47 <jeremiah> Plus, Nokia should really open this stuff up.
Jan 04 01:20:57 <N900evil> Also it should come with slackware on the mmc :)
Jan 04 01:30:38 <[Tycho]> Hello, people.
Jan 04 01:31:36 <KenYoung> I am trying to port a gtk+ application to maemo 5.   The application uses gtk_spin_button widgets to set some numerical values.   The does not seem to work with maemo 5 - the up/down arrows do not appear, and the text field cannot be properly modified by keyboard input.   Does maemo 5 use some other widget for this, or is there something I can do to make gtk_spin_buttons work properly?
Jan 04 01:33:24 <[Tycho]> Have someone tried to install Maemo SDK for n770 ?
Jan 04 01:37:52 <shinkamui> well
Jan 04 01:38:02 <shinkamui> Im trying to totally migrate over to xmpp
Jan 04 01:38:20 <shinkamui> and use transports to get access to my stragglers on msn or aim
Jan 04 01:38:36 <shinkamui> anyone using jabber/xmpp with conversations?
Jan 04 01:38:50 <shinkamui> or is pidgin preferred for managing IM contacts
Jan 04 01:39:22 * [Tycho] thinks that it's already time to consider migrating from xmpp to psyc.
Jan 04 01:40:14 <[Tycho]> I tried to install maemo SDK 2.2 almost by tutorial, but can't get it to work. It shows me this error: http://tr00.ru/ub_01.png
Jan 04 01:55:53 <Sir_Lancelot> See you tomorrow, guys
Jan 04 01:55:58 <Sir_Lancelot> [[[[]]]]
Jan 04 01:56:01 <cehteh> hmpf .. fsck .. doesnt boot
Jan 04 01:58:14 <cehteh> can one enable va framebuffer console on fremantle?
Jan 04 01:58:23 <cehteh> watching boot messages...
Jan 04 01:59:43 <shinkamui> roh noes cehteh
Jan 04 01:59:46 <shinkamui> reflash time?
Jan 04 01:59:58 <shinkamui> I still dont even have the needed images
Jan 04 02:00:17 <cehteh> well i really dont use it much and it still borks
Jan 04 02:00:42 <cehteh> will send it back next days :/
Jan 04 02:02:01 <cehteh> i really wonder why nokia didnt choosen some bullet proof unionfs setup with the underlying rootfs readonly
Jan 04 02:03:02 <dmj7261> cehteh: maybe for maemo 6
Jan 04 02:03:26 <SplasPood> shinkamui: I use jabber for *
Jan 04 02:03:46 <SplasPood> [Tycho]: psyc?
Jan 04 02:04:13 <cehteh> well .. oplc and eeepc  do that, its not rocket science
Jan 04 02:04:31 <[Tycho]> psyc.
Jan 04 02:04:31 <cehteh> would have solved the 256mb restriction nicely too
Jan 04 02:04:38 <SplasPood> [Tycho]: what is that?
Jan 04 02:04:58 <[Tycho]> It's a messaging protocol of future.
Jan 04 02:05:20 <SplasPood> I'm still waiting for XMPP to answer on that promise... ;)
Jan 04 02:05:41 <cehteh> xmpp sux somewhat .. overengineered bloat
Jan 04 02:08:06 <SplasPood> cehteh: I like to compare it to git...  both solve a problem reasonably to very well, both do so by designing a platform vs a specific application
Jan 04 02:08:13 <SplasPood> maybe it's not the greatest comparison, but I think it works
Jan 04 02:08:35 <cehteh> huh
Jan 04 02:08:48 <SplasPood> Maybe it only makes sense to me?
Jan 04 02:08:59 <cehteh> git is very pragmatic tied around linux (and kernel development) most things are added as aftertught
Jan 04 02:09:16 <cehteh> not that its bad, i like it, but it started with very simple ideas
Jan 04 02:09:27 <SplasPood> While that was the itch it was meant to scratch I wouldn't say thats the case at all.
Jan 04 02:09:29 <cehteh> ok .. reflash time grr
Jan 04 02:09:30 <luke-jr> I use git for my email folders
Jan 04 02:09:31 <luke-jr> :D
Jan 04 02:14:33 <shinkamui> SplasPood on conversations or pidgin
Jan 04 02:19:05 <jebba> rsync rsync://espejo.freemoe.org/repository.maemo.org/
Jan 04 02:19:53 <kamui2> nice
Jan 04 02:19:56 <kamui2> had to reboot my damn router
Jan 04 02:20:01 <kamui2> phone aint getting wifi
Jan 04 02:20:27 <SplasPood> shinkamui: conversations (telephony)
Jan 04 02:20:33 <cehteh> i had the same yesterday with my AP
Jan 04 02:20:44 <cehteh> got wlan but no ip from dhcp
Jan 04 02:20:58 <cehteh> maybe it sucks the whole pool empty when trying? ..
Jan 04 02:21:00 <kamui2> see, im not getting wlan at all
Jan 04 02:21:06 <kamui2> its sticking with freeking edge
Jan 04 02:21:08 <cehteh> ok
Jan 04 02:21:16 <kamui2> whcich wouldn't bug me too much
Jan 04 02:21:25 <kamui2> but downloading a 12meg update on edge
Jan 04 02:21:28 <kamui2> aint fun.
Jan 04 02:28:56 <KenYoung> I just received an automatic update of the free42 calculator program.   I allowed the update, and now free42 no longer works on my N900.   If you use the free42 calculator on an N900, I would advise against updating to this new vrsion.
Jan 04 02:35:37 <cehteh> Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101
Jan 04 02:35:49 <cehteh> .. thats one of the first production batches or?
Jan 04 02:36:06 <SpeedEvil>  cehteh: where did you get the revno
Jan 04 02:36:13 <cehteh> flasher
Jan 04 02:36:16 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jan 04 02:36:42 <cehteh> it also shows the list of images it can flash .. 2101 seems very early ..
Jan 04 02:37:04 <cehteh> actually i dont find a lower number
Jan 04 02:37:51 <cehteh> so .. sending it back and hoping to get a device with more childhood diseases fixed
Jan 04 02:38:00 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jan 04 02:38:28 <SpeedEvil> I have a 2101 too
Jan 04 02:38:32 <matthew-> WOW
Jan 04 02:38:33 <SpeedEvil> cat /proc/cpuinfo
Jan 04 02:38:48 <matthew-> that's a massive support group
Jan 04 02:38:55 <matthew-> is the hype created by n900?
Jan 04 02:39:02 <SpeedEvil> We're an insult group, idiot.
Jan 04 02:39:08 <matthew-> w/e
Jan 04 02:39:12 <SpeedEvil> Many of us have n900s.
Jan 04 02:39:25 <SpeedEvil> And most are happy with them.
Jan 04 02:40:17 <matthew-> well i am too
Jan 04 02:40:23 <matthew-> apart from the bat life
Jan 04 02:40:54 <SpeedEvil> battery life seems to vary some with some users hitting bad usecases or having bad APs.
Jan 04 02:40:59 <SpeedEvil> What sort of battery life?
Jan 04 02:41:17 <SpeedEvil> And some of the software hasn't been optimised yet.
Jan 04 02:41:24 <matthew-> yeah i know
Jan 04 02:41:39 <matthew-> but a few hours when im on it heavily
Jan 04 02:41:44 <|R> Does anyone know if the firmware update will bring a newer version of the kernel or just patch to it ?
Jan 04 02:41:46 <cehteh> some hardware neither grr
Jan 04 02:41:47 <Pavlov> battery life is a joke
Jan 04 02:41:48 <SpeedEvil> xchat just got a bit better today forex - as it was poling every 0.5s.
Jan 04 02:42:02 <matthew-> well i dont use it to irc
Jan 04 02:42:03 <cehteh> |R: likely only fixes
Jan 04 02:42:07 <matthew-> if i do, its via terminal and ssh
Jan 04 02:42:10 <cehteh> but no one knows for sure
Jan 04 02:42:12 <Pavlov> mine sitting idle gets like 8 hours
Jan 04 02:42:18 <Pavlov> when its on the network
Jan 04 02:42:23 <SpeedEvil> Pavlov: your AP sucks
Jan 04 02:42:28 <SpeedEvil> Pavlov: probably
Jan 04 02:42:29 <Pavlov> SpeedEvil: its not on wifi
Jan 04 02:42:33 <Pavlov> on 3g
Jan 04 02:42:46 <SpeedEvil> Pavlov: 3G sucks power if the data connection is active at all
Jan 04 02:42:53 <Pavlov> sure
Jan 04 02:43:08 <Pavlov> my iphone still lasts 3x longer
Jan 04 02:43:25 <KenYoung> Is 3G more power-hungry than WiFi?
Jan 04 02:43:29 <Pavlov> or, well, really, every phone i have
Jan 04 02:43:30 <SpeedEvil> Pavlov: Some oif that may be due to stuff not being properly optimised.
Jan 04 02:43:33 <matthew-> iddle with wifi
Jan 04 02:43:34 <SpeedEvil> KenYoung: _lots_
Jan 04 02:43:34 <cehteh> way more
Jan 04 02:43:36 <matthew-> is about 24h
Jan 04 02:43:38 <Pavlov> SpeedEvil: i'm sure it is
Jan 04 02:43:40 <arachnist> KenYoung: quite a bit
Jan 04 02:43:45 <cehteh> switch back to gsm if you can
Jan 04 02:43:50 <matthew-> maybe more
Jan 04 02:43:50 <Pavlov> but excuses don't really matter for users
Jan 04 02:43:53 <KenYoung> Thanks, that's good to know.
Jan 04 02:44:06 <KenYoung> (about the power, that is)
Jan 04 02:44:08 <Pavlov> "your phone would be better except the software isn't done yet"
Jan 04 02:44:09 <SpeedEvil> KenYoung: ssh'd into it, asking for battery life every 20s, it lasts >30h. on wifi. On 3g - maybe 4-5
Jan 04 02:44:30 <cehteh> i hope there will be an automatic switcher between 2g/3g depending on application/load
Jan 04 02:44:48 <SpeedEvil> Pavlov: the iphone software has gotten substantial polishing as it has gone along.
Jan 04 02:44:50 <KenYoung> SpeedEvil, How does WiFi bandwidth compare with 3G, typically?
Jan 04 02:45:08 <matthew-> KenYoung: massive difference.
Jan 04 02:45:10 <Pavlov> SpeedEvil: mostly going down hill ;/
Jan 04 02:45:22 <cehteh> 3g has horrible latency .. bandwidth can be good, but depends on the cell where you are
Jan 04 02:45:24 <SpeedEvil> KenYoung: wifi is G. I get umm. 150kbytes/s or so on 3G
Jan 04 02:45:25 <jebba> ftp://espejo.freemoe.org/repository.maemo.org/
Jan 04 02:45:37 <SpeedEvil> Though it of course varies
Jan 04 02:45:43 <matthew-> KenYoung: WiFi you'll get that 1GB and 3g ull get to 200kb/s
Jan 04 02:45:50 <matthew-> kbps
Jan 04 02:45:55 <SpeedEvil> 1G?
Jan 04 02:45:59 <Pavlov> my other n900 that usually sits idle has great battery life
Jan 04 02:46:02 <matthew-> 1MB
Jan 04 02:46:04 <SpeedEvil> wifi is 54mbps
Jan 04 02:46:10 <Pavlov> idle/off the network/nothing running/setup
Jan 04 02:46:16 <Pavlov> like 4 days?
Jan 04 02:46:23 <jX> Pavlov: Stuart?
Jan 04 02:46:28 <Pavlov> hi
Jan 04 02:46:31 <jX> heh
Jan 04 02:46:44 <jX> hey there. Wasn't sure if that was really you or another pav. :)
Jan 04 02:46:46 <SpeedEvil> Pavlov: have you installed any of teh non-nokia apps?
Jan 04 02:46:52 <Pavlov> SpeedEvil: nope
Jan 04 02:47:01 <matthew-> Pavlov: well my n900 on iddle with wifi on all the time, + emails and shit
Jan 04 02:47:04 <matthew-> is about 24h
Jan 04 02:47:15 <Pavlov> matthew-: nice
Jan 04 02:47:26 <Pavlov> maybe i should put mine on wifi while it is idle
Jan 04 02:47:47 <cehteh> really depends on your AP .. some break powermanagement
Jan 04 02:47:58 <matthew-> Pavlov: mine switces to wifi
Jan 04 02:48:02 <SpeedEvil> Specific usecases that are badly performing in terms of battery life can often be worked around some.
Jan 04 02:48:02 <matthew-> when available
Jan 04 02:48:11 <cehteh> and even worse there is a bug which makes turning wlan off still suck power
Jan 04 02:48:24 <pupnik> it's good we're finding bugs
Jan 04 02:48:43 <cehteh> well
Jan 04 02:48:49 <SpeedEvil> The 1.1 firmware reportedly has some stupid number of bugs fixed.
Jan 04 02:48:51 <pupnik> :)
Jan 04 02:48:53 <cehteh> good if someone else finds them .. :P
Jan 04 02:49:07 <SpeedEvil> having said that - I find no real show-stopper bugs for using it as a phone.
Jan 04 02:49:13 <cehteh> i am actually quite pissed today
Jan 04 02:49:27 <Pavlov> SpeedEvil: tmobile is my biggest one
Jan 04 02:49:36 <SpeedEvil> USB connector faling off isn't good.
Jan 04 02:49:42 <Pavlov> at&t drops calls all the time cause their network sucks, tmobile i just hit dead spots :(
Jan 04 02:49:48 <SpeedEvil> Pavlov: Why?
Jan 04 02:49:48 <jX> agreed. would it really have cost much more to use a transceiver that worked on AT&T's network too?
Jan 04 02:49:51 <SpeedEvil> oh - US
Jan 04 02:49:53 <jX> yeah
Jan 04 02:49:58 <SpeedEvil> jX: yes, it would.
Jan 04 02:49:59 <jX> only 300 million of us.
Jan 04 02:50:10 <jX> SpeedEvil: I disagree, I can't see more than a penny a part.
Jan 04 02:50:16 <cehteh> well its a loose connection on the charger side (the male micro usb)
Jan 04 02:50:26 <SpeedEvil> jX: you cannot produce a radio that works on AT&Ts network without AT&Ts approval.
Jan 04 02:50:26 <jX> granted I can't find a spec sheet listing the exact part used, but still.
Jan 04 02:50:27 <cehteh> so i can still charge via usb
Jan 04 02:50:31 <jX> SpeedEvil: LOL, sure.
Jan 04 02:50:38 <cehteh> but this device goes back next days .. grr
Jan 04 02:51:00 <SpeedEvil> jX: And the radio is in the $30-40 range, it's one of the expensive bits in the phone.
Jan 04 02:51:07 <Pavlov> oh, yeah, we had one usb connector come out of the device
Jan 04 02:51:10 <cehteh> jX: i thought its a software and not tranceiver problem
Jan 04 02:51:23 <matthew-> SpeedEvil: ur in UK ?
Jan 04 02:51:29 <SpeedEvil> The standards used in the US essentially mean you'd need a largely completely seperate part of the radio for theUS.
Jan 04 02:51:34 <jX> cehteh: AFAIK it's the chip itself, but I could be mistaken.
Jan 04 02:51:36 <SpeedEvil> matthew-: yes.
Jan 04 02:51:44 <matthew-> same, what network?
Jan 04 02:51:51 <jX> SpeedEvil: Er, no?
Jan 04 02:51:57 <cehteh> i read everywhere "quad band, works anywhere around the world"
Jan 04 02:52:06 <matthew-> cehteh: well it does.
Jan 04 02:52:12 <jX> cehteh: Works and works on all 3g networks are two different statements
Jan 04 02:52:18 <Pavlov> you can put a at&t sim in the n900 works fine
Jan 04 02:52:20 <jX> it WORKS on AT&T, I use it daily
Jan 04 02:52:20 <Pavlov> just not on 3g
Jan 04 02:52:22 <zsoc> Does maemo's implementation of SDL support the SDL_DOUBLEBUF video flag?
Jan 04 02:52:22 <jX> but it's edge speed only
Jan 04 02:52:28 <cehteh> ok
Jan 04 02:52:44 <SpeedEvil> Ok - AT&Ts CDMA network was what I was referring to, sorry to be unclear.
Jan 04 02:52:55 <GAN900> Such a stupid decision on Nokia's part
Jan 04 02:53:10 <GAN900> But it's clear they don't care about the US.
Jan 04 02:53:12 <matthew-> I waited for the phone for over 8 months
Jan 04 02:53:20 <matthew-> And im really happy with it.
Jan 04 02:53:21 <SpeedEvil> I think they evisioned the phone selling in rather smaller volumes.
Jan 04 02:53:23 <matthew-> GAN900: well they kinda do.
Jan 04 02:53:27 <cehteh> there are a lot doubtful hardware decisions ...
Jan 04 02:53:35 <cehteh> but well .. i dont engineer phones
Jan 04 02:53:38 <matthew-> cehteh: not really
Jan 04 02:53:54 <matthew-> cehteh: I deal with semiconductors, and they picked best possible hardware with good roadmaps
Jan 04 02:53:57 <SpeedEvil> And the USA variant being produced along with an evolved next version.
Jan 04 02:54:00 <matthew-> nothing will go obsolete in a while
Jan 04 02:54:06 <jX> SpeedEvil: The transceover chips aren't that costly, I hate to tell you.
Jan 04 02:54:07 <cehteh> the gps could be better, the frontcam is to be seen if it works better with new firmware
Jan 04 02:54:14 <jX> the cpu costs more.
Jan 04 02:54:37 <matthew-> jX: the 'design' is the cost of electronics, not the hardware.
Jan 04 02:54:45 <matthew-> hardware cost is under 100usd.
Jan 04 02:54:49 <SpeedEvil> jX: the trancievers are not perhaps individually costly, but adding extra stuff to a small device is not free, even if the parts are.
Jan 04 02:55:05 <jX> granted, but making a given chip access one more freq isn't that costly.
Jan 04 02:55:10 <SpeedEvil> It's not.
Jan 04 02:55:12 <jX> so to state that yeah, it was a huge cost issue is untrue
Jan 04 02:55:20 <jX> it was simply more than they wanted to spend
Jan 04 02:55:21 <SpeedEvil> It's a completely seperate radio for CDMA - pretty much.
Jan 04 02:55:31 <SpeedEvil> Or it's a chipset that supports all bands.
Jan 04 02:55:35 <jX> AT&T isn't CDMA, you're thinking sprint and verizon
Jan 04 02:56:23 <SpeedEvil> Ok - my knowledge of the US cellphone network isn't great, sorry.
Jan 04 02:56:31 <GAN900> WCDMA != CDMA
Jan 04 02:56:33 <jX> indeed
Jan 04 02:56:59 <jX> the difference between TMob in teh US and AT&T is merely teh frequencies used for 3g
Jan 04 02:57:04 <GAN900> It's not the radio type, it's the frequencies.
Jan 04 02:57:17 <jX> but please, feel free to continue to spout bullshit.
Jan 04 02:57:48 <pupnik_> cehteh: been abusing the usb port again?
Jan 04 02:58:00 <cehteh> pupnik: again?
Jan 04 02:58:08 <cehteh> abuse?
Jan 04 02:58:31 <pupnik_> you say connection is loose.  a few people have ripped theirs also.
Jan 04 02:58:45 <Pavlov> pupnik_: yeah, one of my guys pulled one out
Jan 04 02:58:48 <Pavlov> they're not in there very good
Jan 04 02:58:53 <Pavlov> i'd return it, asap!
Jan 04 02:58:53 <cehteh> on the cable side here, luckyle not the device connector
Jan 04 02:59:07 <ali1234> you know there isn't just "the radio chip", it's a whole chipset
Jan 04 02:59:14 <pupnik_> wow.  my plea is for shorter lever-arms on usb cables
Jan 04 02:59:19 <cehteh> so i can charge with usb .. but the charger is out of order
Jan 04 02:59:33 <ali1234> frontend chips handle the different frequencies
Jan 04 02:59:41 <jX> ali1234: right
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 04 02:59:57 2010