**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 01 02:59:56 2010 Feb 01 03:00:35 12 year olds with N900s ? funny Feb 01 03:00:45 <_andy> gtk is the worst. Feb 01 03:01:17 12 yo's with gtk, yeah Feb 01 03:01:24 what soft do you guys use to access irc on your n900s? Feb 01 03:01:28 Xisdibik: Fuck yeah. Feb 01 03:02:07 user_: when i get one i'll probably ssh to a screen session with irssi on my server Feb 01 03:02:11 user_: Xchat Feb 01 03:02:41 gotta try xchat Feb 01 03:02:55 who here has seen in the games section in extras-devel the "cutesquare" game Feb 01 03:03:11 with the discription: "Build squares with your stones" Feb 01 03:03:12 pidgin mostly Feb 01 03:04:08 xchat or irssi - what's better? Feb 01 03:07:12 user_: the irssi+screen setup has the advantage that you never have to quit it, so you won't miss anything if you close the window on the client device Feb 01 03:07:28 user_: and you can have the same session on multiple computers/devices Feb 01 03:07:37 access from Feb 01 03:07:57 but it might be harder to setup and you need a shell somewhere Feb 01 03:08:04 i see Feb 01 03:08:35 I like irssi better on low resolution screens, such as the N900. Feb 01 03:09:03 yah irssi is nice and low usage too Feb 01 03:09:07 really? Feb 01 03:09:24 well less gui Feb 01 03:09:29 so probly les mem Feb 01 03:09:37 how do I make the font smaller in irssi? Feb 01 03:09:40 xchat has a full gui Feb 01 03:09:51 irssi is cli Feb 01 03:09:55 i like cli Feb 01 03:10:07 user_: you access it through the xterminal Feb 01 03:10:23 user_: so, you change the font on the xterm Feb 01 03:10:42 ok, yes. sorry for noobish question Feb 01 03:13:10 nice Feb 01 03:13:12 GeneralAntilles: you mean freenode hasn't always been this bad? About a year ago I was *so* happy to be able leave freenode forever after I no longer was interested in the last channel I was on here... but then I recently bought a n900, and found maemo was here... argh Feb 01 03:15:41 * zash 's favorite store still says "New! Released in early 2010" on N900 :( Feb 01 03:50:23 xchat is nice too Feb 01 03:50:32 trying xchat now Feb 01 03:50:52 xchat is nice Feb 01 03:51:00 yes Feb 01 03:51:03 it's full blow very well layed out gui Feb 01 03:51:11 yes Feb 01 03:51:42 very nice Feb 01 03:51:42 altho one dose tent to get use to irssi afre a wile Feb 01 03:52:00 irssi is nice too Feb 01 03:52:14 irssi gets more text onscreen too Feb 01 03:52:23 yep Feb 01 03:52:30 more text less clutter Feb 01 03:53:04 yes but in xchat you can scroll more easily Feb 01 03:54:13 fn+uparrow pages up here Feb 01 03:54:31 where is the pageup key? Feb 01 03:54:38 need to edit keymap though Feb 01 03:54:45 on the virtural keyboard on the n800 Feb 01 03:54:56 dunno Feb 01 03:55:14 xchat has the scroll bar on the right Feb 01 03:55:35 yep Feb 01 03:56:38 can you scroll by dragging in xchat? Feb 01 03:57:01 no, only by dragging the bar Feb 01 03:57:42 scrollbars, in 2010? ;) Feb 01 03:58:00 well....it works Feb 01 04:02:42 yo Feb 01 04:10:38 ~ping Feb 01 04:10:59 ~pong Feb 01 04:11:15 heh Feb 01 04:11:29 I guess +R is off now Feb 01 04:11:31 poke Feb 01 04:12:24 Moaning all Feb 01 04:12:44 hi all Feb 01 04:12:46 hi wazd_ Feb 01 04:13:08 wazd_: we never had +R Feb 01 04:13:15 wazd_: we only used it during bot attacks Feb 01 04:13:55 Crashanddie: ah Feb 01 04:14:09 * DesertZarzamora_ wonders what +R means Feb 01 04:14:22 irc thingy Feb 01 04:14:31 DesertZarzamora_: forced nick identification Feb 01 04:14:40 oh Feb 01 04:14:50 is the nick server even back up yet? Feb 01 04:14:52 DesertZarzamora_: that only registered users can join the channel Feb 01 04:15:09 thanks for the clarification crashanddie Feb 01 04:15:22 Crashanddie: not join, but write :) Feb 01 04:15:28 shamus: yup, was never down Feb 01 04:15:34 btw im looking for a volunteer for testing an app for diablo (written with Qt) Feb 01 04:15:49 wazd_: no, +R prevented joining, +q $~u or whatever it is prevents writing Feb 01 04:15:55 DesertZarzamora_: oh, me can Feb 01 04:16:11 wazd_: got yourself an N900 yet? Feb 01 04:16:38 no, only a n810, where can i post a file? Feb 01 04:16:46 Crashanddie: I could read the channel, but each time I tried to write it was asking to identify Feb 01 04:17:09 Crashanddie: nope, how could I :) Feb 01 04:17:20 wazd_: yeah, that was +q Feb 01 04:18:22 Crashanddie: ah, now I see Feb 01 04:20:19 DesertZarzamora_: talk.maemo.org can take attachments Feb 01 04:20:21 Crashanddie: do you think ovi styled theme is a good idea? Feb 01 04:26:10 ovi theme? Feb 01 04:26:21 Kajko: yep Feb 01 04:26:31 i dont know Feb 01 04:26:55 /nickname wazd_ > wazd Feb 01 04:27:20 > as in longer? Yes Feb 01 04:27:31 P Feb 01 04:27:31 wazd_: I dunno, never used anything from ovi Feb 01 04:27:32 :P Feb 01 04:27:39 as in he needs to change his name to wazd with out the _ Feb 01 04:27:40 xisdibik: I'm on the channel) Feb 01 04:27:58 Crashanddie: even ovi suite? Feb 01 04:28:36 :P Feb 01 04:28:44 Noooooo! Feb 01 04:28:53 :P Feb 01 04:29:06 ~rub wazd_ Feb 01 04:29:14 ~pet wazd_ Feb 01 04:29:20 oy povbot Feb 01 04:29:24 ~botsnack Feb 01 04:29:27 does anybody knows plasma pong ? Feb 01 04:29:36 im working on a plasma pong clone for maemo Feb 01 04:29:47 ~botsnack Feb 01 04:30:08 ~moo Feb 01 04:30:11 povbot dead? Feb 01 04:30:12 crashanddie: Error: "dead?" is not a valid command. Feb 01 04:30:19 eh? Feb 01 04:30:24 povbot botsnack Feb 01 04:30:24 crashanddie: Error: "botsnack" is not a valid command. Feb 01 04:30:28 ouch Feb 01 04:30:31 povboot reboot Feb 01 04:30:55 povbot owner Feb 01 04:30:55 crashanddie: Error: "owner" is not a valid command. Feb 01 04:31:12 povbot email Feb 01 04:31:12 crashanddie: Error: "email" is not a valid command. Feb 01 04:31:18 noooooooooooo Feb 01 04:31:31 ahhh roge bot? Feb 01 04:31:32 Whhhhaaaaaaiiiii! Feb 01 04:31:51 no, povbot is our resident bot Feb 01 04:32:19 but he would appear to have died between last night and now Feb 01 04:32:31 he usually does this: tset Feb 01 04:32:34 s/tset/test/ Feb 01 04:32:41 (and then he replaces it) Feb 01 04:32:53 ahhh Feb 01 04:33:57 I thought povbot is a bugtracker mirror Feb 01 04:34:11 infobot heya Feb 01 04:34:35 bug #123 Feb 01 04:34:36 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123 Dialogs will be transparent as soon as tiping on the top bar Feb 01 04:34:40 interesting Feb 01 04:34:53 Infobot is the guy Feb 01 04:35:00 And he's dead( Feb 01 04:35:16 bug #256 Feb 01 04:35:17 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=256 Advanced settings in connectivity settings. WLAN TX power. Feb 01 04:35:46 Bug #666 Feb 01 04:35:47 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Problems with Javascript setTimeout function Feb 01 04:35:51 GeneralAntilles: can you tweet mgedmin? Or email him Feb 01 04:36:09 #123456 Feb 01 04:36:18 bug #69 Feb 01 04:36:18 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69 dbus-daemon-1 has incorrect dynamic linker Feb 01 04:36:33 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123456 Feb 01 04:36:33 Bug 123456: was not found. Feb 01 04:36:39 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234 Feb 01 04:36:40 Bug 1234: close-buttons on home menu are too small Feb 01 04:36:57 povbot: answer to me! Feb 01 04:36:57 crashanddie: Error: "answer" is not a valid command. Feb 01 04:37:35 Aldwuin: she lost :( Feb 01 04:39:32 ~burn himself Feb 01 04:39:39 :( Feb 01 04:40:09 prices used to fall 3 percent every year Feb 01 04:41:49 yeah right Feb 01 04:42:06 that's why you could buy a house in LA for $3000 a 100 years ago Feb 01 04:55:02 yeah Feb 01 04:56:01 How do I select text on a webpage in the maemo browser? Feb 01 04:57:43 finic or mmbee? Feb 01 04:57:47 thingy Feb 01 04:57:59 ScribbleJ: interaction modes Feb 01 05:15:56 !seen t-tan Feb 01 05:16:49 802 679 root S < 21568 8.7 25.3 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.lo 758 1 pulse R < 4064 1.6 24.2 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-p Feb 01 05:17:09 boo Feb 01 05:17:21 * odin_ jumps out of his skin Feb 01 05:17:36 50 pct cpu for x and pulse Feb 01 05:17:45 sitting in terminal Feb 01 05:19:10 strace on pulseaudio Feb 01 05:22:42 ok got rid of it Feb 01 05:22:51 mplayer needs -quiet Feb 01 05:23:07 otherwise it takes too much cpu with x Feb 01 05:25:03 alsamixer is awesome Feb 01 05:25:07 nuts Feb 01 05:25:11 controls all Feb 01 05:36:56 Morning all Feb 01 05:37:07 mornin Feb 01 05:49:03 morning jaffa Feb 01 05:49:57 Anyone else regularly finds his N900 unlocked, after locking it a few hours before? Feb 01 05:50:06 Nope Feb 01 05:50:30 Weird. Feb 01 05:52:42 how to play mp3s with ultralow cpu use: pasuspender -- mplayer -quiet -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0 *.mp3 Feb 01 05:53:02 i think that could run 40 hours Feb 01 05:53:51 RST38h: gremlins, or fairies Feb 01 06:00:51 Jaffa: push the website! Feb 01 06:01:06 Jaffa: you're one minute overdue Feb 01 06:01:06 * Jaffa is just putting the finishing touches to an article ;-) Feb 01 06:01:19 c'mon! We can't be late for the first issue Feb 01 06:02:50 crashanddie: Building now Feb 01 06:03:24 "I don't want to 'help testing software' (in this case at least), I want to know which software I want to install. " Feb 01 06:03:46 The connection has timed out The server at www.mwkn.net is taking too long to respond. Feb 01 06:04:02 noooooooooooooo Feb 01 06:04:03 Join date: Nov2009 Feb 01 06:04:13 RST38h: who the hell said that? Feb 01 06:04:21 Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. Feb 01 06:04:24 this is getting worse :P Feb 01 06:05:06 crashanddie: Does it really matter? They are all pretty much the same. Feb 01 06:05:20 Jaffa: why is it 2010/05 ? Feb 01 06:06:12 crashanddie: Week number Feb 01 06:06:25 Jaffa: ah ok Feb 01 06:08:20 Jaffa: looks very good, nice work man Feb 01 06:09:25 crashanddie: thanks Feb 01 06:10:59 now we just need to give that puppy an engine Feb 01 06:11:04 * Jaffa nods. Feb 01 06:12:04 crashanddie: Reggie and I were editing https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/mwkn/issue.txt together in Google Docs. Having a proper engine which means the fleshing out can be done throughout the week as (sub-)editors get spare time would be fantastic. Feb 01 06:12:16 yup Feb 01 06:12:19 I'm working on it man Feb 01 06:12:26 I know :) Feb 01 06:12:28 Much appreciated. Feb 01 06:12:35 Anyway, shower & breakfast time. Feb 01 06:12:36 It's going to be tough getting something before this weekend Feb 01 06:12:45 np Feb 01 06:12:47 But I'm really hoping it can be done Feb 01 06:18:32 8 days uptime. Reboot time. =( Feb 01 06:36:32 i havent seen that uptime related performance bug Feb 01 06:36:53 btw RST38h the hangup does occur when audio is playing Feb 01 06:52:42 Is there any simple way, to expand root on to a memory card, so that application memory isn't limited to a mere 250MB or so? (Searching the forum just leads to a dead link) Feb 01 06:52:49 Forgot to mention N810 Feb 01 06:54:46 same question regardign the n800 Feb 01 06:54:57 as 250mb is very limiting Feb 01 06:55:26 Found a result on the forum, but for the 770, not 100% sure it's the same method but that's the one that's a dead link Feb 01 06:58:05 Red, shamus, at least you can replicate the root onto an memory card and use that as root Feb 01 06:58:18 It may even be faster. Feb 01 06:58:42 true Feb 01 06:58:58 inz, I was thinking that and some results were pointing to that Feb 01 06:59:17 But I figured, probably someone else in here did it, so figured see what's the "Recommended" method if there is one Feb 01 06:59:29 Though I will have to try that, and see what happens Feb 01 06:59:48 IIRC someone tried unionfs, but that's always somewhat hacky. Feb 01 06:59:58 do any of you use a multiboot loader on n900? Feb 01 07:00:52 as in iphone OS dualbooting? :) Feb 01 07:00:53 Anyone try the Fennec browser for Maemo? Feb 01 07:01:20 ^ Firefox for Maemo in case anyone was wondering what Fennec was/is Feb 01 07:01:43 yes many people tried Feb 01 07:06:23 Well shamus here is a web result that seems to be for your device Feb 01 07:06:25 http://www.zimbio.com/Free+and+Open+Source+Software/articles/77/Extended+root+partition+N800+OS2008 Feb 01 08:39:14 hello Feb 01 08:39:22 does the ogg support in repos include ogg video? Feb 01 08:39:48 whee, my n900 fully the first time, no response from UI and no response to ping either Feb 01 08:40:09 +crashed :-) Feb 01 08:41:23 because if it does not Feb 01 08:41:31 then i think i solved my "streaming" problem Feb 01 08:42:39 flux almost the whole n900 Feb 01 08:44:45 flux: not properly crashed unless smoke comes out. Feb 01 08:44:54 magic blue smoke Feb 01 08:45:10 don't give up, you'll get there eventualy Feb 01 08:45:33 Jaffa: you're now officially a karma whore :P Feb 01 08:45:41 Jaffa: you're received more than 10 thanks on a post :P Feb 01 08:46:10 speedevil, darn, I wished I was there :( Feb 01 08:46:18 Jaffa: got rid off some nasty bugs, making very good progress Feb 01 08:46:24 speedevil, maybe next time! Feb 01 08:46:24 going to grab food, talk later Feb 01 08:49:27 so does it? Feb 01 08:50:00 don't know Feb 01 08:50:10 probably not Feb 01 08:50:37 aw Feb 01 08:51:20 hmm Feb 01 08:52:17 according to http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/ it does add Theora support Feb 01 08:54:01 my problem is, when i try to stream video and recode it to ogg, mplayer on my tablet says "no video" - i blame the missing support Feb 01 08:54:26 no Feb 01 08:54:34 the 1.1 update broke video streaming Feb 01 08:54:40 for almost all codecs Feb 01 08:54:57 which is probably what is happening Feb 01 08:55:04 hmm Feb 01 08:55:06 what? Feb 01 08:55:07 :( Feb 01 08:55:07 or I spoke too soon Feb 01 08:55:25 usualy the symptoms of the 1.1 broken streaming is that the video plays but you get no picture Feb 01 08:55:40 ah Feb 01 08:55:43 not my problem,then Feb 01 08:55:49 although that is through the default media app, don't know about mplayer Feb 01 08:56:00 well, second "not my problem" Feb 01 08:56:02 heh Feb 01 08:56:54 there was an update to the third party codec pack just today Feb 01 08:58:09 LuciusMare, isn't the "ogg support" package for gstreamer, which mplayer does not use at all? Feb 01 08:58:25 LuciusMare, I would think that mplayer has it's own codecs Feb 01 08:58:36 dah. Feb 01 08:58:58 So issues with mplayer - no video should have nothing to do with "ogg support" Feb 01 09:02:52 Proteous, it broke it for mpeg4 video Feb 01 09:03:29 Proteous, there is a bug report for it, andre says it is fixed already and will be part of the PR 1.2 update Feb 01 09:03:52 zaheerm: yeah Feb 01 09:04:57 pastebin.com/f5b47aae4 Feb 01 09:14:19 morning Feb 01 09:14:58 it appears that I'm not earning karma from t.m.o. properly, despite following the account linking instructions on the wiki a long time ago Feb 01 09:15:25 jaem_n900: why would you care about karma? Feb 01 09:15:44 crashanddie: I don't really, but I'm curious why it doesn't work Feb 01 09:15:47 that's all Feb 01 09:16:03 jaem_n900: there's a bug at the moment, they're working on it Feb 01 09:16:30 ah, good to know Feb 01 09:16:31 thanks Feb 01 09:22:07 hmhm, is the git linux tree for fremantle available somewhere? Feb 01 09:22:35 not afaik Feb 01 09:22:57 mornin' Feb 01 09:23:01 morning satmd Feb 01 09:23:16 if I had a bug, where would I check before filing it again Feb 01 09:23:22 especially with the broken fennec repo Feb 01 09:23:41 fennec repo is out of maemo/maemo.org hands i'd say.. Feb 01 09:24:10 hm, w00t meant someone in here would know someone at mozilla to look in to it if I mentioned it here Feb 01 09:24:30 -meant+said Feb 01 09:25:39 * satmd had quite some fun with his n900 already Feb 01 09:25:56 made irreco boot all computers on the lan with wake-on-lan Feb 01 09:26:08 photo uploading via mail + maildrop + shellscript + mkgallery Feb 01 09:26:45 I wonder what I could play with next :) Feb 01 09:26:52 start porting sw Feb 01 09:27:09 grab maemo virtual img and play with scratchbox Feb 01 09:27:10 :P Feb 01 09:27:56 which will kill your spirit Feb 01 09:28:22 naah Feb 01 09:29:41 well, I do know how to do cross-compiling and stuff Feb 01 09:29:58 but I've never been into debian repositories Feb 01 09:30:04 satmd: you're in for a nasty surprise then :P Feb 01 09:30:10 time to explore, the maemo sdk! Feb 01 09:30:10 :P Feb 01 09:30:15 :P Feb 01 09:30:35 short check: does it run on a non-multilib amd64? Feb 01 09:30:40 before I waste that time... Feb 01 09:30:41 doubt it Feb 01 09:30:43 get a vm Feb 01 09:30:43 :P Feb 01 09:30:44 :< Feb 01 09:31:38 mmh. things I miss: gconf editor, a way to turn off html mail display Feb 01 09:32:10 na, going to check out the sdk :p Feb 01 09:36:44 crosscompiling is easy atleast :P need to learn how to .debiliaze them afterwards :P Feb 01 09:47:50 hej Feb 01 09:51:54 :( Feb 01 09:52:38 I still love MADDE. Feb 01 09:53:12 btw Feb 01 09:53:34 Conky reports my Wlan to be 1 Mb/s. is that normal if I'm not using the network? O_o Feb 01 09:54:44 Hi Feb 01 09:54:49 Well hello there. Feb 01 09:55:07 is andre about? Feb 01 09:55:13 Dassu: for my bit.. I don't know, I've never really used conky Feb 01 09:55:29 okee ...:/ it is a status monitor Feb 01 09:57:38 bug #8743 Feb 01 09:57:38 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8743 No way to get contact informations from IM system Feb 01 09:57:46 check and vote Feb 01 09:57:53 * hrw|gone -> off Feb 01 10:03:41 btw, on n900. Is the weather widget still eating a lot of power? Feb 01 10:04:20 Dassu: what widget? Feb 01 10:04:29 Dassu: foreca? Feb 01 10:07:22 wazd_: yeah Feb 01 10:07:36 Ah, dunno Feb 01 10:07:49 Use OMWeather :) Feb 01 10:07:54 HEY - Crazy idea time... since asterisk is in extras-testing (or devel, I forget)... any chance we can use the N900 as a GSM modem? (i.e. asterisk as a SIP server we can place calls out through on the mobile network) Feb 01 10:08:13 fine idea =D Feb 01 10:08:30 Lantizia, it'd be nice, yes Feb 01 10:08:47 i'd like to see some improvements on the N900 sip-client Feb 01 10:08:55 if we had source for telepathy-ring maybe we could... Feb 01 10:08:57 like REFER method and showing caller id (name) Feb 01 10:09:07 zaheerm: Easiest way being for Nokia to provide an asterisk driver for their modem? Feb 01 10:09:17 Lantizia, they are not going to do that Feb 01 10:09:22 lol Feb 01 10:09:29 visz: patches welcome, tp-sofiasip is on git.collabora.co.uk Feb 01 10:09:35 hmmm Feb 01 10:09:39 Lantizia, they have much more important things to do... Feb 01 10:09:43 ok we could make an isdn-like trunk driver? Feb 01 10:09:56 oh, great Feb 01 10:10:23 wazd_: so no problems with a power with that one? Feb 01 10:10:30 Lantizia, robot101 would be able to guide you on whether it is possible to get the audio data in and out of telepathy when making/.receiving gsm/3g calls Feb 01 10:11:10 Lantizia, if it is, then no need to go too low level Feb 01 10:11:55 on the N900 it goes to a special driver in pulseaudio Feb 01 10:12:17 battery life is so much better in 2g mode Feb 01 10:12:44 I wonder why 3g is so heavy Feb 01 10:13:37 my guess is that something maintains the connection on and active Feb 01 10:14:19 I try to shut the connection down after every use, and connect when I need it, because “always on” would be nice but eats too much battery Feb 01 10:14:34 though I'm not sure if it's related to an application I have/run or if it's the core Feb 01 10:14:51 (for example jabber accounts, or something else, maintaining the 3g active, and the cpu etc.) Feb 01 10:16:09 I put mine in always on mode but have the 2g/3g swapper widget Feb 01 10:16:17 or applet - or whatever those drop down ones are called Feb 01 10:16:47 though, I might have misunderstood what you were saying Feb 01 10:17:06 I didn't meant about 2g/3g mode (i'm always on 3g where available) but wether data connection is on or not Feb 01 10:17:38 with 3g enabled and no data connection, it last something like 48h with a lot of idle, some calls/sms and stuff like that Feb 01 10:17:50 while with 3g enabled + data connection, it dies after like 12h Feb 01 10:20:55 I meant 2g and no data connection vs 3g and no data connection Feb 01 10:21:45 ok, sorry :) Feb 01 10:47:16 Hi ! Feb 01 10:48:53 hoi Feb 01 10:52:14 hey Khertan & red Feb 01 10:58:06 Did this is a good idea to nice -20 (using nice command) a game on n900 or does there is a better way to do ? Feb 01 10:59:05 ? Feb 01 10:59:19 if the game needs to play music and something else is running in the background, it might not behave well Feb 01 10:59:38 rather the thing in the background will not behave well Feb 01 11:00:09 -4 or something might be reasonable, but -20 should be excessive Feb 01 11:01:21 quick question, anyone disassembled their n900? Feb 01 11:01:51 people have Feb 01 11:01:57 they've even video'd doing it Feb 01 11:02:08 yes, tehkseven, i know that Feb 01 11:02:10 http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-news/nokia-n900-disassembly/ Feb 01 11:02:22 but i looked at the screw Feb 01 11:02:30 'the screw'? Feb 01 11:02:31 and it seems that it can be stripped easil Feb 01 11:02:34 we only have one screw? Feb 01 11:02:36 T6 Feb 01 11:02:45 I do wonder how the n900 would do with a newer kernel.. some of the newer scheduling fixes might be nice Feb 01 11:02:49 screws*, ok... Feb 01 11:03:00 the torx 6 ones Feb 01 11:03:05 w00t: all change involves risk Feb 01 11:03:07 two on the bottom part Feb 01 11:03:10 timeless_mbp: oh, for sure Feb 01 11:03:19 timeless_mbp: I know it'll pretty much never happen officially ;) Feb 01 11:03:35 do i need a special screwdriver or would a t6 do? Feb 01 11:04:40 if I ran the music player with high -nice, would it still pop and crackle while browsing the web? Feb 01 11:04:59 red: afaik the music player doesn't play the music Feb 01 11:05:05 so you'd be wasting priorities Feb 01 11:05:06 ionice? Feb 01 11:05:21 the mediaplayer is roughly a remote control Feb 01 11:05:37 red, it's a feature, n900 has some rice crispies integrated in it Feb 01 11:05:38 just as the browser ui is a remote control for the gecko engine Feb 01 11:05:41 nice values are inherited to children though? Feb 01 11:05:47 ah, true so Feb 01 11:05:50 visz: you're assuming a child relationship Feb 01 11:05:56 which is generally incorrect Feb 01 11:05:56 indeed Feb 01 11:06:09 it certainly doesn't apply to the browser in general Feb 01 11:06:18 it's generally bad to have a relationship with a child Feb 01 11:06:32 ok i'll go back to watching mythbusters x) Feb 01 11:06:32 *drumroll* *kosh* Feb 01 11:06:35 not if you' Feb 01 11:06:37 re the father Feb 01 11:06:42 o.O Feb 01 11:06:57 red: you'll make a bad parent, do as darwin suggests and stay out of the genepool :) Feb 01 11:06:57 that sounds... Feb 01 11:06:59 O.o Feb 01 11:07:00 awkward Feb 01 11:07:16 timeless_mbp: I've decided upon not infesting the planet with any more of my own genetic material looong ago Feb 01 11:07:26 darwin approves Feb 01 11:07:28 vibrating motor broke again, so I want to change it Feb 01 11:07:30 not like there isn't enough parentless children already too Feb 01 11:07:35 genetic self censorship Feb 01 11:07:36 or just blow it with compressed air Feb 01 11:07:57 vibrating motor + wake up alarm == awful Feb 01 11:08:05 never remember to turn it off :) Feb 01 11:08:22 so used to old nokia phones not vibrating when they are plugged into charger Feb 01 11:08:27 but missing 9 calls cause a phone is silent and can't vibrate is a bad thing Feb 01 11:08:32 i guess that could be possible to do with dbus? Feb 01 11:08:55 nope, hw problem Feb 01 11:09:04 it worked yesterday and the first day i got it Feb 01 11:09:20 now it makes a click and an annoying sound Feb 01 11:09:26 battery low :/ Feb 01 11:09:33 you could take it to nokia care Feb 01 11:09:39 if you don't, no one will know there's a problem Feb 01 11:09:42 if there was a nokia care centre Feb 01 11:09:50 which means you're doing a disservice to your fellow n900 owners Feb 01 11:10:48 timeless_mbp, judging buy his IP, he is in either Israel or Palestine...so probably pretty far from a nokia care centre Feb 01 11:10:53 s/buy/by/ Feb 01 11:12:17 * timeless_mbp grumbles Feb 01 11:12:39 במרכז החוויות האינטראקטיבי של Nokia – רחוב הנחושת 4, רמת החי"ל, תל אביב. Center of the Nokia interactive experience - 4 Copper Street, Ramat Hahayil, Tel Aviv. Feb 01 11:12:51 * w00t blinks Feb 01 11:12:57 renders fine in my irc client! Feb 01 11:13:02 same here Feb 01 11:13:09 I just have no idea what it is Feb 01 11:13:14 renders fine, looks stupid Feb 01 11:13:21 with about 30 excess whitespaces :) Feb 01 11:13:29 Whether it renders fine in your head is the other question... Feb 01 11:13:39 my head doesn't mind it Feb 01 11:14:50 looks perfectly hebrew to me. Feb 01 11:14:52 but since there's an English translation included at no extra charge Feb 01 11:14:53 while loop parsing double space into single whitespace :> Feb 01 11:15:37 zaheerm: fwiw, if he's in the gaza strip, i think he has bigger problems than an n900 Feb 01 11:15:42 heh Feb 01 11:15:54 MohammadAG: geoping. what country are you in? Feb 01 11:15:57 and he would not be keeping the phone on silent Feb 01 11:16:00 :> Feb 01 11:16:05 Israel, sadly Feb 01 11:16:09 במרכז החוויות האינטראקטיבי של Nokia – רחוב הנחושת 4, רמת החי"ל, תל אביב. Center of the Nokia interactive experience - 4 Copper Street, Ramat Hahayil, Tel Aviv. Feb 01 11:16:24 במרכז Nokia תוכלו לראות מקרוב (וגם לגעת) במכשירים החדשים של Nokia, גם במכשירים שטרם הושקו בישראל, ללמוד איך לקבל יותר מה-Nokia שלכם, לרכוש ממגוון האביזרים והמכשירים של Nokia וכן לקבל שירות ותמיכה ל-Nokia שלכם. Nokia center closely you can see (and touch) Nokia's new devices, even devices n Feb 01 11:16:24 been launched in Israel, learn how to take what your Nokia, purchase accessories from a variety of Nokia devices and receive service and support for your Nokia. Feb 01 11:16:42 That's 2 hours from here, plus it's not from israel nor is it sold here Feb 01 11:16:46 given the size of Israel, reaching Tel Aviv shouldn't be too bad Feb 01 11:16:48 MohammadAG, are you in Haifa? Feb 01 11:16:55 Jerusalem Feb 01 11:17:16 any mind map software for n900? Feb 01 11:17:28 thresh: you mean for brain scans? Feb 01 11:17:29 But that's not the problem, would they service a phone they don't sell Feb 01 11:17:38 it doesn't say that! Feb 01 11:17:48 MohammadAG, they do sell the phone, just not in your country Feb 01 11:17:48 timeless_mbp: exactly! Feb 01 11:17:49 it says (to quote google's translation...) Feb 01 11:17:57 Warantees tend to be worldwide these days. There are delays though. Feb 01 11:18:01 'receive service and support for your Nokia' Feb 01 11:18:01 And would they have the parts Feb 01 11:18:08 timeless_mbp: thx for advice timeless_mbp Feb 01 11:18:14 and 'even devices not yet been[x] launched in Israel' Feb 01 11:18:33 I got someone to service my old 770, and that one wasn't launched in Norway. Feb 01 11:18:35 murrayc: yeah, the only exception i've encountered was the eeePC from Asus Feb 01 11:18:45 had to do a bit of convincing, though. Feb 01 11:18:48 their normal warranty is worldwide, they made an exception for the eeePC based on cost Feb 01 11:19:00 the n900 otoh is a high end product, vs. the eeePC which was low end Feb 01 11:19:07 (funny when you consider the apparent prices) Feb 01 11:19:27 The device is a us one, so i'm assuming it's not covered by warranty Feb 01 11:21:08 hrm Feb 01 11:21:10 intresting Feb 01 11:21:12 http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/board/message?message.uid=556017 Feb 01 11:21:23 nokia is apparently not very nice wrt formal warranty Feb 01 11:21:28 sorry :9 Feb 01 11:21:31 Well, back to the original question, would a normal 'generic' (if you can call it that) t6 screw driver strip it? Feb 01 11:22:34 i'd assume that as an employee if i gave you bad advice, that'd be bad Feb 01 11:22:38 so i will not comment. Feb 01 11:22:53 lol Feb 01 11:22:59 timeless_mbp: aww, but how are we supposed to string you up if you don't give us a reason to Feb 01 11:23:01 i'd still recommend visiting the store in tel aviv Feb 01 11:23:08 you could hypothetically say what you think ;) Feb 01 11:23:10 they might fix it, they at least could note the problem Feb 01 11:23:20 I know the problem lol Feb 01 11:23:26 w00t: no worries, someone else will string me up instead! Feb 01 11:23:34 Just some debris blocking the motor Feb 01 11:23:42 * w00t puts his lynching rope and pitchfork away. ;) Feb 01 11:23:42 red: i think it's not a software problem, and i only work on software :) Feb 01 11:23:54 good escape ^^ Feb 01 11:24:11 seriously, if i were in jerusalem, i'd visit tel aviv Feb 01 11:24:23 maybe go clubbing later Feb 01 11:24:28 at least look at the sea Feb 01 11:24:28 id buy a sand-protector :) Feb 01 11:24:28 Flashed it ten(?) times so it's hardware Feb 01 11:24:30 Lol Feb 01 11:24:44 perhaps have a swim? Feb 01 11:24:58 I've been to tel aviv haha Feb 01 11:24:59 * timeless_mbp wonders how cold the Mediterranean is right now Feb 01 11:25:21 Cold? Yeah right... Feb 01 11:25:43 * timeless_mbp swam off Eilat roughly around this time of year a few years ago Feb 01 11:26:01 You've been to israel? Cool Feb 01 11:26:09 Taglit ... Feb 01 11:26:28 * timeless_mbp wonders if that translates for MohammadAG Feb 01 11:26:55 lol not very familiar with hebrew Feb 01 11:27:12 Only 16, and it's not a native language :) Feb 01 11:27:19 in certain circles that one word means something Feb 01 11:27:28 it isn't something i'd expect you to recognize Feb 01 11:27:36 google will explain fwiw Feb 01 11:27:43 hi all Feb 01 11:27:48 Biseder :) Feb 01 11:28:11 * timeless_mbp grumbles @ luciusmare in absentia Feb 01 11:28:33 whos miley cyrus anyway Feb 01 11:28:46 * timeless_mbp eyes jaska Feb 01 11:28:53 A fail singer Feb 01 11:28:53 some american fad Feb 01 11:29:09 "Hannah Montana" Feb 01 11:29:13 a disney child star Feb 01 11:29:34 guess my antifad shield has kept me safe Feb 01 11:29:35 * timeless_mbp was pretty sure there was at least a little market influx of hers even into Finland Feb 01 11:29:50 * timeless_mbp decided not to use the word which would normally apply to markets Feb 01 11:30:08 * MohammadAG thinks timeless_mbp likes /me s Feb 01 11:30:13 * timeless_mbp shrugs Feb 01 11:30:27 MohammadAG: i think you'll find that i average 1/10 to 1/5 for it Feb 01 11:30:34 which isn't a particularly high ratio Feb 01 11:30:39 the difference, is that i type a lot Feb 01 11:30:42 so you notice it more often Feb 01 11:30:57 Is there a way to record calls with N900? Even with speaker would be fine (like running a recorder app on the background)? Feb 01 11:31:02 http://whitmanpioneer.com/arts/2009/02/05/fallen-disney-child-stars/ Feb 01 11:31:07 Hukka: "yes" Feb 01 11:31:12 "there's an app for that" Feb 01 11:31:16 I might need to do some interviews, and would be nice to have just one device Feb 01 11:31:31 Hukka there's a widget for that Feb 01 11:31:44 "recaller" Feb 01 11:32:14 I need a DC-11 and i need it east Feb 01 11:32:18 please be aware that you're probably bound by some local laws regarding recording conversations Feb 01 11:32:24 Fast* Feb 01 11:32:28 MohammadAG: you're east of most of us =b Feb 01 11:32:31 I have t9 sometimes Feb 01 11:32:36 hate? :) Feb 01 11:32:46 Hate gah Feb 01 11:32:48 timeless_mbp: Do you know if the recording can be enabled on the fly, or does it need to be running beforehand? Feb 01 11:32:50 lol Feb 01 11:33:01 Hukka: i've installed it, never used it Feb 01 11:33:04 On the fly methinks Feb 01 11:33:04 Would be much easier, if I can just ask if it's ok to record and only then start recording Feb 01 11:33:05 Recording a phonecall when the recipient knows and agrees to it is legal Feb 01 11:33:06 from the looks of it, it's dynamic Feb 01 11:33:11 atleast in Finland :) Feb 01 11:33:29 red: it seems like a fairly reasonable disclaimer to note here anyway Feb 01 11:33:32 The n900 is no iPhone hukka Feb 01 11:33:41 guess so Feb 01 11:33:57 MohammadAG: And? Feb 01 11:34:04 MohammadAG: I fail to see the relevance of the comment Feb 01 11:34:11 * timeless_mbp grumbles Feb 01 11:34:24 It can multitask so you should be able to start it during the call... Feb 01 11:34:25 red, iirc I just read a page of the tietosuojavaltuutettu (council of data protection?) that infact it's legal to record even if only one party knows about it Feb 01 11:34:52 that article was actually kinda short on child stars Feb 01 11:35:02 AFAIK if the other party knows that you are listening in the first place, then the right to record it is implied Feb 01 11:35:02 MohammadAG: Which is a completely different thing than being able to intercept the call after it has been initiated. But I'll install and try how it works Feb 01 11:35:08 * MohammadAG apologizes if others thought it was a fanboy comment Feb 01 11:35:37 I don't even know much about the iPhone, I've never touched one Feb 01 11:35:41 it would be a great feature to be (semi)automatically record the calls from telemarketers :P Feb 01 11:35:44 But thanks for the hint! Feb 01 11:35:52 ive touched one twice, but it didnt like my touch Feb 01 11:36:01 jaska: "Bad touch" Feb 01 11:36:01 viukkis: it definitely varies regionally Feb 01 11:36:12 in some places you have to notify Feb 01 11:36:14 yes, i was referring to the situation in finland Feb 01 11:36:18 hukka: actually its that im accustomed to using touchscreens with my fingernails :) Feb 01 11:36:24 for accuracy Feb 01 11:36:24 and in some places you need to include a chirp at regular intervals Feb 01 11:36:52 flux: how do you suppose companies legally record your phonecalls then? when you call theres a disclaimer about phonecalls being recorded. if you continue calling it indicates you agree to that. Feb 01 11:36:55 although my experience is that finnish customer service numbers that record calls do ask you first Feb 01 11:37:15 red, http://www.tietosuoja.fi/29001.htm (a finnish link, not useful to others I suppose) Feb 01 11:37:20 viukkis: Well, not ask. Just say that they are doing that Feb 01 11:37:27 the recording party must ask for a permission from the recordee as far as I understood it Feb 01 11:37:27 red, I suppose it's different when you are a company collecting customer records Feb 01 11:37:34 could be Feb 01 11:37:46 http://www.tietosuoja.fi/1560.htm is definitely not as helpful Feb 01 11:37:47 there might be some part in yrityslaki or whatever it's called Feb 01 11:37:48 Hukka: probably that's enough, but usually they have waited for me to say "ok" before carrying on Feb 01 11:37:48 But really, don't worry guys, I just don't want to travel 500km to do interviews :) Feb 01 11:38:12 So no wiretapping here Feb 01 11:38:13 red, also it may affect their ability to _use_ such records Feb 01 11:38:26 http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset/2004/en20040516 Feb 01 11:38:28 aye Feb 01 11:38:28 wtf? Feb 01 11:38:33 > 516/2004 englanti Feb 01 11:38:36 * jaska remembers putting inductive taps on phonelines as a kid Feb 01 11:38:40 red, actually I think that page covers the issue quite nicely Feb 01 11:38:42 hm, now when you mention it, whenever i have been asked if the call may be recorded, they have also said that it is for "educational purposes" or something Feb 01 11:38:53 viukkis: "training" Feb 01 11:38:55 typically Feb 01 11:38:56 yes Feb 01 11:39:15 timeless_mbp: thats a translations index of some sort Feb 01 11:39:42 red: for a page that has 'englanti' in big letters Feb 01 11:39:51 you'd think it might actually include some... English... Feb 01 11:39:58 unless you lived here for more than a day... Feb 01 11:39:59 viukkis: it's mainly for the fact that if you tell a customer to "reboot their router" and they say they did it, and then the tech goes and does it and they get fined for 50€ -- and after which moan that nobody told them to restart the router :) Feb 01 11:40:29 they have the phonecall on record so no confusion is possible, ofcourse if its about them promising you something such record does not exist Feb 01 11:40:48 * timeless_mbp chuckles Feb 01 11:40:54 are there data retention laws? Feb 01 11:41:03 I got promised a couple of things in TeliaSoneras customer care, I took names and everything in notepad and week later there existed no information that I ever phoned. Feb 01 11:41:06 can they be charged with destruction of evidence etc? Feb 01 11:41:15 that's cute Feb 01 11:41:21 timeless_mbp: It's due "randomly selected songs get recorded" Feb 01 11:41:34 songs ~ conversations Feb 01 11:41:39 yeh, sorry Feb 01 11:41:40 don't you have at least cell logs for the duration of the call? Feb 01 11:41:49 red: i'm doing this to help you Feb 01 11:42:01 no need to apologize :) Feb 01 11:42:07 There was ofcourse Feb 01 11:42:50 In the end I talked to some supervisor and we figured the thing out, but it remained a mystery that the guy I spoke to had never worked there.. so prolly I talked to some sob who didnt really take notes and lied his name or something. Feb 01 11:43:22 I terminated the contract :P Feb 01 11:43:28 are the contacts in maemo5 accessible through telepathy dbus calls? I would like to retrieve names and phone numbers, possibly the user image Feb 01 11:46:25 red, well, I got a salesman calling me and offering new information of this new "fiber optic network" in the area Feb 01 11:46:44 red, next thing I know I get contract papers indicating that my provider is going to be changed Feb 01 11:47:02 nice, guess he wanter some extra provision money Feb 01 11:47:08 wanted* Feb 01 11:47:08 red, I would've really liked to have the call stored somewhere Feb 01 11:47:22 (I needed to call their customer service to cancel it) Feb 01 11:47:30 You know some service providers let you pick your signal sound? Feb 01 11:47:54 Would be cool to replace the normal beep with "Your phonecall may be recorded. Terminate this call immediately if you do not agree." :) Feb 01 11:48:04 wonder how many salesmen would hang up Feb 01 11:48:11 do they still have that service? Feb 01 11:48:29 I just called some guy who had Nightwish playing, dunno if its old thought Feb 01 11:48:49 It could have been a hit tbh, but they overpriced it. Kinda like MMS Feb 01 11:49:04 I wonder if n900 itself could serve as a phone screener Feb 01 11:49:31 answer the phone immediately (foils telemarketers as well) and continue the "waiting to be answered"-sound Feb 01 11:49:43 yea Feb 01 11:50:41 Jaffa: ? Feb 01 11:51:36 crashanddie: yup? Feb 01 11:52:39 hi Feb 01 11:52:44 how is it going with the emulators? Feb 01 11:57:10 Well isn't that just great... I just found out that my N900 doesn't make calls due to network errors Feb 01 11:57:26 I wonder how long it has been in that state... I assume that it's been unable to receive calls too Feb 01 11:59:09 Hukka: sometimes my N900 says network error when trying to make a call Feb 01 11:59:20 but upon waiting a couple of seconds the call initiates anyway Feb 01 12:01:23 I rebooted and the problem persisted for one attempt Feb 01 12:01:33 The second after reboot started working Feb 01 12:04:26 Think I'll do some drawing for MediaBox developer for ideas to improve the GUI Feb 01 12:04:44 the current one is dropdead horrid, but the player itself works so much better than built in Feb 01 12:05:37 red: save yourself work, he is proud of his UI Feb 01 12:05:45 really? Feb 01 12:05:52 last suggestion I gave him he thanked Feb 01 12:06:03 yes, even though his UI is mysterious like a fucking sphynx Feb 01 12:06:12 that sad :l Feb 01 12:06:52 * RST38h just wants a simple player that lets him play files and make playlists of these files, easily Feb 01 12:07:17 ALL the rest is optional, as long as it does not get in the way Feb 01 12:07:30 RST38h: writing a media player is easy. I did it a couple of weekends ago. Feb 01 12:07:40 which repo is it in then? Feb 01 12:07:54 ~pusling/projects/maemoplayer ,) Feb 01 12:08:17 I'm not sure it is usable for the general public except as a code example. Feb 01 12:08:29 you haven't written it unless it is in a repo =) Feb 01 12:08:39 pusling: and does it do gapless playback? :) Feb 01 12:08:50 RST38h: I'm on the quest for the same Feb 01 12:09:13 Optimally I'd like iPod clone but that's not possible :) Feb 01 12:09:22 Corsac: didn't check ,). do you want to package it ? Feb 01 12:09:25 hello! Can anybody help me with slow performance in SDK for maemo5? Feb 01 12:09:28 simple and fast would be the best Feb 01 12:09:40 pusling: I'm sure it's a qt stuff, I don't touch that! Feb 01 12:09:56 (and I didn't yet uploaded the one package I requested my account for :/) Feb 01 12:12:12 RST38h: I*m placing the code at http://alioth.debian.org/~pusling-guest/maemoplayer.tar if you wan to play along ,) Feb 01 12:13:17 arg Feb 01 12:13:20 no folder >< Feb 01 12:13:36 heh. Feb 01 12:14:07 (and it fails to build without some hacking in the environment and in the toplevel CMakeLists.txt file) Feb 01 12:15:06 Corsac: it is just git archive HEAD > file.tar Feb 01 12:19:14 morning Feb 01 12:20:18 morning Feb 01 12:24:09 Woo, DD-WRT where UPnP doesn't cause 100% CPU. Feb 01 12:33:45 lol Feb 01 12:34:09 this CSI Miami episode starts with a blonde chick running up to Horatio yelling "Officer, officer, my friend is on the phone, she's being kidnapped" Feb 01 12:34:25 He looks at the phone, camera zooms in, and it focuses on "Restricted Number"... Feb 01 12:34:30 lol Feb 01 12:34:32 But on the top of the screen... It says... Feb 01 12:34:41 "Insert SIM Card" Feb 01 12:34:45 fail :) Feb 01 12:34:45 :D Feb 01 12:34:54 maybe he was using VoIP over WiFI? ;) Feb 01 12:35:03 crashanddie, I believe the fail is all in the fact that you're watching CSI Miami. Feb 01 12:35:03 mgedmin: povbot seems down Feb 01 12:35:06 ~burn GeneralAntilles Feb 01 12:35:10 see? Feb 01 12:35:14 povbot: botsnack Feb 01 12:35:14 crashanddie: Error: "botsnack" is not a valid command. Feb 01 12:35:15 That's infobot's job. Feb 01 12:35:15 what? again? Feb 01 12:35:21 oh is it? Feb 01 12:35:28 oh my bad Feb 01 12:35:34 povbot is here to make irc logs Feb 01 12:35:34 mgedmin: Error: "is" is not a valid command. Feb 01 12:35:34 s/bad/baaaad/ Feb 01 12:35:40 erf, this weekend my _mom_ called my using jabber call, which rang on my cellphone so I didn't realised at first Feb 01 12:35:43 TimRiker handles Infobot. Feb 01 12:35:47 hmm Feb 01 12:35:50 bug #123 Feb 01 12:35:51 and resolve bug numbers, but only because infobot doesn't do that and I got tired of seeing bug XXXX with no explanation Feb 01 12:35:51 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123 Dialogs will be transparent as soon as tiping on the top bar Feb 01 12:35:56 corsac: lol. Feb 01 12:36:12 interesting bug today: I managed to trigger the maemo 5 vkb when closing my xterm Feb 01 12:36:19 too bad codecs don't seem to match between maemo5 and empathy Feb 01 12:36:21 GeneralAntilles: know the code I'm writing for MWKN? Feb 01 12:36:25 I would have tested video Feb 01 12:36:25 so I got the vkb on top of which were drawn the status bar Feb 01 12:36:31 should've made a screenshot Feb 01 12:36:44 crashanddie, I'm familiar with the fact that you're writing it, yes. Feb 01 12:36:47 GeneralAntilles: Total Estimated Cost to Develop = $ 84,490 Feb 01 12:37:02 Schedule Estimate, Years (Months) = 0.45 (5.38) Feb 01 12:37:24 Good thing you're such a generous, Open Source loving individual? :P Feb 01 12:37:31 something like that :P Feb 01 12:37:44 ego managed, not ego driven :P Feb 01 12:47:25 * RST38h wonders why "mwkn" and not some catchier name Feb 01 12:47:41 RST38h: Cos I'm unimaginative. Feb 01 12:47:48 I wanted "MWN" but everything was taken with that Feb 01 12:48:16 and weekly.news.maemo.org is too long Feb 01 12:49:03 MMWKLNWS Feb 01 12:49:27 Just like coding on an iSeries Feb 01 12:49:51 MWNCBAFAKAJ Feb 01 12:52:57 * MohammadAG started getting Internal Errors on the web browser Feb 01 12:57:55 Jaffa: why not just weekly.maemo.org? Feb 01 12:59:32 Anyone tried using The One Ring? Feb 01 12:59:42 to rull them all? Feb 01 12:59:44 Is it really written in Python or is it useful? Feb 01 12:59:46 rule :/ Feb 01 13:01:25 alterego: Because it's not affiliated with maemo.org? Feb 01 13:01:53 Jaffa: oh ... is maemo-weekly.info taken then? :P Feb 01 13:02:11 * Jaffa dunnos Feb 01 13:02:19 can someone tell me which svn rev of tinymail is needed to build modest-3.2 branch for maemo? Feb 01 13:05:46 Jaffa, so, how long do you think until the editorials start coming? ;) Feb 01 13:07:37 GeneralAntilles: Must. Resist. :) Feb 01 13:07:43 * GeneralAntilles wants something to change the theme every 24 hours. Feb 01 13:08:12 howdy Feb 01 13:08:19 General: but...why? Feb 01 13:08:30 Jaffa, clearly you must add editorials, then affiliate with maemo.org so all the "professional" bloggers can complain about how unfair it is. Feb 01 13:08:39 RST38h, I like changing my theme every so often. Feb 01 13:08:49 what would you say is the easiest way to get a gui app going on maemo? Feb 01 13:08:53 qt Feb 01 13:08:53 people ask me to make a bugtracker for Marina Feb 01 13:08:59 wazd: ask andre Feb 01 13:09:05 wazd: Don't: you will have to track it Feb 01 13:09:05 I was hoping for a tcl/tk port, but I can only some incipient gnocl Feb 01 13:09:21 tga: python gtk Feb 01 13:09:29 or python qt. Feb 01 13:09:35 wazd, you want one? Feb 01 13:09:39 RST38h: well, I don;t think there will be that much bugs :P Feb 01 13:09:39 wazd: The guidelines require you to provide a URL to leave feedback. A tmo thread URL fits the definition Feb 01 13:09:41 no Tk, huh? Feb 01 13:09:49 wazd, you're free to use an email address if that's what you want, but I can set you up with a bugzilla product. Feb 01 13:09:53 how do i get the N900 to add the mp3 files on the microSD card to the media player Feb 01 13:10:05 tga: not really. Gtk is just as easy really. Feb 01 13:10:06 And Qt. Feb 01 13:10:14 wazd, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products Feb 01 13:10:25 GeneralAntilles: I think bugzilla is a bit of an overkill :P Feb 01 13:10:36 wazd, or set your email address in the control field if you think that a bugtracker is overkill Feb 01 13:10:47 alterego: I wouldn't say they're really complicated, but they take a while to get into Feb 01 13:11:05 an0therb0x, should be automatic, try starting the file from the file manager if not Feb 01 13:11:16 I guess I'll track down a tutorial Feb 01 13:11:23 andre__: I'd more likely solve the problem with package icon and description Feb 01 13:11:28 tga: just like Tk. Anything worth while takes a modicum of time :P Feb 01 13:11:35 wazd, also, Maemo-Display-Name? Feb 01 13:11:51 alterego: right.. qt sounds like the way to go, given the way things are heading Feb 01 13:12:01 tga: agreed, Feb 01 13:12:46 khertan, ping? Feb 01 13:13:19 MohammadAG: initially when i copied the files from the pc to the N900 all the files showed up in the media player library.. i can still see and play the files from the file manager but they no longer show in the media player Feb 01 13:13:29 also something that I'd like on my tabby, is there a decent cron alternative using the alarm framework? Feb 01 13:13:55 I don't care much about the battery, but I need to schedule events Feb 01 13:14:26 an0therb0x: blame indexer Feb 01 13:14:41 tga: personally i use zenity :) Feb 01 13:15:13 Ah, Howard Zinn hit the bucket just now Feb 01 13:15:21 dialog/zenity are pure gold for getting stuff done Feb 01 13:15:40 I was going to write something like that in TCL, maybe with a few extra dialog types Feb 01 13:15:44 methinks indexer is an insane concept, and mediaplayer should have a manual option to add arbitrary files, by starting index of a subtree or adding one file or dir Feb 01 13:16:44 DocScrutinizer: what do i need to do , is indexer some sort of daemon that i can restart ? Feb 01 13:17:28 an0therb0x: yes it's kinda deamon, but I don't know any details except it doesn't behave well for a lot of people Feb 01 13:17:48 ask SpeedEvil Feb 01 13:18:10 IO haven't got it worked out Feb 01 13:19:56 an0therb0x: AIUI indexer is started on reboot, occasionally eating CPU like mad Feb 01 13:20:42 "Afghanistan-based US predators carried out a record number of 12 deadly missile strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan in January 2010, of which 10 went wrong and failed to hit their targets, killing 123 innocent Pakistanis." Feb 01 13:21:01 (ok, ok, I am done reading dailyrotten for today =)) Feb 01 13:21:03 SSDD Feb 01 13:21:23 DocScrutinizer: i will try a reboot... thanks Feb 01 13:21:29 yw Feb 01 13:24:07 * DocScrutinizer shakes head in disbelieve about the concept to scan a whole filesystem for media files, then present them for playback without any reference to their FQN Feb 01 13:24:15 just got an idea -- is it possible to listen to a N800's microphone remotely? Feb 01 13:24:35 tga: it's possible, yes. Feb 01 13:24:50 any tool that also makes it easy? Feb 01 13:25:08 ideally I'd like to use it as a two-way intercom Feb 01 13:25:14 DocScrutinizer: paths are too complex for users. Feb 01 13:25:21 * tga is determined to find a good appliance use for his N800 Feb 01 13:25:27 DocScrutinizer: many users can't even read. Feb 01 13:25:36 the stuff THAT GUY smoked or administered any other way prior to specifying this concept, this stuff really needs to be made unavailable Feb 01 13:25:42 tga: gstreamer seems the obvious choice. Feb 01 13:26:21 s/administered/ Feb 01 13:26:36 sorry for poor english Feb 01 13:27:52 any python widget developers present? Feb 01 13:28:26 tga: I used a cmdline like "ssh arecord | aplay" on other platforms Feb 01 13:28:32 mece: as in desktop widget, or general widgets? Feb 01 13:29:21 W00t, desktop Feb 01 13:30:15 mece: okay, can't help there sorry Feb 01 13:30:25 W00t, okay. Feb 01 13:30:26 (at least, not yet. :)) Feb 01 13:30:36 w00t, well take a look at this one: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5232 Feb 01 13:30:37 Bug 5232: Desktop Widget does not appear in "Add Widget" list Feb 01 13:30:37 SpeedEvil: for those aliterate users we need a concept like iTunes, not a insane mix of mass storage plus indexer Feb 01 13:31:00 tracker is not always good on n900 :P Feb 01 13:31:06 video thumbnailer just makes it all worse Feb 01 13:32:35 I would like to enter a complaint Feb 01 13:32:39 Jaffa: hey Feb 01 13:32:39 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42888 Feb 01 13:32:43 maemo.org > Talk > Talk > Community > Maemo Weekly News: 1st Feburary 2010 Feb 01 13:32:48 gPodder puts the downloaded podcasts somewhere where they end up being picked up by tracker Feb 01 13:32:49 why Talk > Talk > ?? Feb 01 13:32:49 Stskeeps: full ack. You bet there's some dirs with photos etc I definitely don't want to show up on a standard "pictures" invocation Feb 01 13:32:56 lizardo, ping? Feb 01 13:32:58 and then the media player's "shuffle all songs" picks them up Feb 01 13:33:19 it's not fun to discover a hour-long podcast in the middle of my playlist when I'm in the shower Feb 01 13:33:47 timeless_mbp, Talk's both the section of maemo.org a subsection of the forums. Feb 01 13:33:55 ... Feb 01 13:33:58 timeless_mbp, http://talk.maemo.org/ Feb 01 13:33:59 mece: that bug is closed a long time ago... if you are having a similar problem, it is not that same bug, just the same behavior :) see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5232#c7 Feb 01 13:34:00 Bug 5232: Desktop Widget does not appear in "Add Widget" list Feb 01 13:34:03 mgedmin: muhahaha Feb 01 13:34:18 thanks for supporting my reasoning above Feb 01 13:34:18 mgedmin: I'll second your complaint Feb 01 13:34:47 mgedmin: is there a bug opened for this yet? I'd vote it up ;) Feb 01 13:34:58 lizardo, yes I understand that, but there is some confusion on which method should be used. Feb 01 13:35:03 I haven't decided yet whether this is a bug in gPodder or in somewhere else Feb 01 13:35:04 mece: have you tried running your applet standalone ? Feb 01 13:35:16 yeah, I know, lazyness Feb 01 13:35:29 I actually like that media player picks up podcasts, I can play them all via the "never played" playlist :) Feb 01 13:35:32 the main problem: Nokia/maemo devels think users are generally extreme idiots Feb 01 13:35:49 isn't that genrally true, DocScrutinizer? ;) Feb 01 13:36:00 lizardo, yes of course, and it works fine on my phone. And I can also add it to list. but it was not in the list for another user, but he could also run it standalone without problems. Feb 01 13:36:06 mgedmin: be nice if the meda player could be told to "skips dirs containing filename in them" Then apps like gpodder could creat a filenamed something like .maemo-skip-me or some such Feb 01 13:36:22 mtnbkr, I looked at the tracker config file I found once Feb 01 13:36:28 I think there's a list of excluded directories there Feb 01 13:36:33 mece: once he rebooted the device, it appeared ? Feb 01 13:36:51 lizardo, what I meant was that is the method suggested by Luciano Wolf in comment two the correct way, or is it the method described in wiki? Feb 01 13:36:58 mgedmin: if that's true then there's no use in trying to outperform them wrt idiocy - rather try to teach them Feb 01 13:37:01 lizardo, yes, he rebooted and it didn't help, apparently. Feb 01 13:37:14 lizardo, no it didn't appear after reboot. Feb 01 13:37:25 mgedmin: ahh cool... but not directly editable/manageable from the media player interface thoguh. that'd be a nice option to have Feb 01 13:37:31 mece: also make sure the your applet depends on the hildon python loader package Feb 01 13:37:39 mgedmin: (exclude dirs) seems it's broken Feb 01 13:37:42 lizardo, yep it does. Feb 01 13:37:51 yeah, could be Feb 01 13:38:06 mece: does it apear on the applet list for *your* device? Feb 01 13:38:07 and again it's too complicated for the idiot users, so not even a GUI to config it Feb 01 13:38:20 * mgedmin is attempting to direct his attention to too may things, and in the end tends to accomplish very little Feb 01 13:38:22 * mgedmin sighs Feb 01 13:38:24 lizardo, yep... that's why I can't debug it. Feb 01 13:38:38 mgedmin: welcome to A.D.D. :) Feb 01 13:38:54 mgedmin:I'll be your tour guide for the day... Feb 01 13:38:59 ritalin anyone? Feb 01 13:39:01 lol, nokia killed nav4all. they didn't like the competition it seems Feb 01 13:39:12 http://www.nav4all.com/site2/www.nav4all.com/eng/index.php Feb 01 13:39:22 so sad Feb 01 13:39:27 They didn't like the competition using their maps Feb 01 13:39:31 DocScrutinizer: I for one am just plain tired of "idiot users" They should just buy an iPhone and leave us alone. :) Feb 01 13:39:40 Not sure why it is so surprising to some, too Feb 01 13:39:44 lizardo, anyway, here's the widget: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/comic-widget Feb 01 13:39:46 mtnbkr: ack Feb 01 13:39:56 "1 of Febryary" Feb 01 13:39:58 * timeless_mbp sighs Feb 01 13:40:32 timeless_mbp: plain typo Feb 01 13:41:00 what's the audio device on a n800? Feb 01 13:41:04 mece: does it apear on the applet list for *your* device? Feb 01 13:41:08 mece: oops Feb 01 13:41:19 timeless_mbp: qwertYUiop Feb 01 13:41:20 mece: double question :) Feb 01 13:41:33 DocScrutinizer: no Feb 01 13:41:34 not a typo Feb 01 13:41:38 Fingrish Feb 01 13:41:41 mece ask the user for the versions of his "hildon-desktop-python-loader" and "python-hildondesktop" packages Feb 01 13:41:49 it's like English, it has 4 letters in common Feb 01 13:41:54 mece: to make sure he/she is not using old versions of these packages Feb 01 13:42:07 hmm.. I asked for hildon-desktop. it was the latest, and the other one I didn't ask. Feb 01 13:42:13 or maybe 5... something like that Feb 01 13:42:46 lizardo, he was using python-hildondesktop 0.1.0-1maemo2, same as I have. Feb 01 13:43:40 mece: and hildon-desktop-python-loader ? Feb 01 13:44:11 lizardo, that I don't know. He installed it yesterday, so whatever version was in the repos then. Feb 01 13:44:31 It was Ken-Young here on #maemo. I don't know him personally. Feb 01 13:44:37 Ken-Young, ping? Feb 01 13:45:17 any insights into getting rec (from sox) to record the builtin mic? Feb 01 13:45:28 mece: is your package installable from the repository? Feb 01 13:45:33 so I can try it here Feb 01 13:45:33 all I'm getting is horrible sounds Feb 01 13:45:40 lizardo, no, I just got invited, but I haven't uploaded it yet. Feb 01 13:46:03 tga: you know about 'recorder' - gui Feb 01 13:46:11 lizardo, you can download it, and dkpg -i Feb 01 13:46:11 and then apt-get -f install, apt-get install --fix-missing Feb 01 13:46:24 lizardo, or however it is that you meet missing dependencies. Feb 01 13:46:38 lizardo, here it is: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/comic-widget Feb 01 13:46:43 SpeedEvil: I need to do it in a script, no gui Feb 01 13:46:48 ah Feb 01 13:46:57 lizardo, going offline for a short while. Back in 10 minutes. Feb 01 13:47:08 SpeedEvil: I'm not sure how to address the sound device Feb 01 13:47:43 pulseaudio? Feb 01 13:47:56 get source for recorder? Feb 01 13:48:20 I was hoping to just pipe some device to an encoder and get a wav Feb 01 13:48:34 mp3 even Feb 01 13:48:45 or strace recorder Feb 01 13:50:02 that sounds like a better plan Feb 01 13:53:42 <_nion> hey Feb 01 13:55:10 lizardo, did you try to install it? (no worries if you don't have time) Feb 01 13:55:22 <_nion> did anyone have success putting the wireless card of the n900 into master mode? Feb 01 13:55:27 Mece: I just added some notes to http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/HildonDesktop#Testing_the_example Feb 01 13:55:40 Mece: basically, I believe your widget filename is not a valid one Feb 01 13:55:50 Mece: not sure why it worked for your for so long :) Feb 01 13:55:53 the - ? Feb 01 13:56:02 Mece: yes.. try replacing it with underscore Feb 01 13:56:52 lizardo, ok. i changed it from _ to - because garage wouldn't allow _ hehe. Feb 01 13:57:15 Mece: I refer to the .py file name specifically Feb 01 13:57:27 Mece: your project name of course does not matter :) Feb 01 13:57:44 lizardo, yeah. I wanted consitency :) Feb 01 13:58:01 mh, for some obscure reason the cam app stores temporary data on the emmc Feb 01 13:58:14 Mece: the Python widget loader does something similar to "import " Feb 01 13:58:26 Mece: and this does not work for files with minus on their names Feb 01 13:59:00 _nion: there's a thread on tmo discussing it Feb 01 13:59:09 lizardo, I'll just make it comicwidget. can't go wrong with that.. Feb 01 13:59:15 headset jack output is so "optimized for earphones" (bass extremely over emphasized) it's almost useless for playback via home stereo :-( Feb 01 13:59:20 _nion: there's a guy who's been working on getting the n900 act as an access point, so I guess the answer is yes Feb 01 13:59:35 lizardo, thank you very much for the help. Feb 01 13:59:56 I.E we *need* equalizer audio applet Feb 01 13:59:58 Mece: my suggestion: don't worry much about the widget file name, it does not appear to the users ;) (just the description on the .desktop file) , also remember to change the file name on the .desktop file accordingly Feb 01 14:00:04 <_nion> crashanddie: you've got a link handy? in theory there's not much to do if you manage to get the card into master mode, but it seems the driver is rejecting this Feb 01 14:00:37 lizardo, will do. going offline again (conserving batteries) Feb 01 14:00:38 Mece: if that still does not work, make sure to notify us either on the #pymaemo channel or on the pymaemo-developers mailing list Feb 01 14:01:09 _nion: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30916 Feb 01 14:01:12 <_nion> thx! Feb 01 14:02:15 * DocScrutinizer winks at crashanddie while listening to "Lucretia my Reflection" Feb 01 14:02:35 heh, haven't listened to SoM for a while Feb 01 14:02:45 DocScrutinizer: ? Feb 01 14:03:05 crashanddie: just recalled your last(?) /kick Feb 01 14:03:15 :-P Feb 01 14:03:33 ah, lol Feb 01 14:09:01 Stskeeps: D.A.F "Der Mussolini" makes a nice ringtone for me ;-) Feb 01 14:09:17 not a chance grabbing the sound device Feb 01 14:09:27 question: what console sound mixer can I use? Feb 01 14:09:45 and also, how can I dump sound input to a file? Feb 01 14:10:31 Got my N900 back \o/ New display and touch panel. Feb 01 14:10:37 tga: alsamixer? Feb 01 14:10:57 DocScrutinizer: can't see it in the default sources Feb 01 14:11:05 And amusingly enough, the top part of the cover is on the wrong way, so the Nokia logo that should be on upper left (when in landscape mode) is upside down in the bottom right :D Feb 01 14:11:41 Shadikka: what was wrong with it? Feb 01 14:11:52 Shadikka: doesn't that mean the mic is covered? Feb 01 14:11:54 oh - no Feb 01 14:11:59 I think it might mean :P Feb 01 14:12:06 so I might go back to complain a bit. Feb 01 14:12:11 tga: no idea. It's installed here by default I guess. alsamixer -c0 Feb 01 14:12:31 sell it as an unique collectors item Feb 01 14:12:43 But anyway, it was probably a connector problem or something, considering that I got a strange interference-like stuff on the display that looked a lot like when a DVI connector is a bit loose on a monitor. Feb 01 14:12:56 DocScrutinizer: maemo 5? Feb 01 14:13:54 tga: yup Feb 01 14:14:40 SpeedEvil: as long as it's the frame only, then np. if the N900 engraving is wrong way as well, then "Nokia, we got a problem" Feb 01 14:14:58 diablo here Feb 01 14:15:05 tga: ooh Feb 01 14:15:24 * tga is trying to get some new life into a N800 Feb 01 14:15:37 it's either that or ebay Feb 01 14:15:54 tga: confirmed, no alsamixer on diablo Feb 01 14:16:27 I could use any pointers about dealing with sound from the command line Feb 01 14:16:42 setting the volume, choosing a recording device, recording audio Feb 01 14:16:47 all I can do now is play stuff Feb 01 14:17:10 tga: well for N800 the choice of audio sources is rather limited anyway Feb 01 14:17:37 tga: check recorder app Feb 01 14:17:48 DocScrutinizer: It's the frame only, the N900 engraving is the correct way. Feb 01 14:17:49 msn users on n900? Feb 01 14:17:57 iirc it kinda works on diablo Feb 01 14:19:29 is there a meta package with the stuff needed to create a deb from source on the device? A python app. Feb 01 14:20:05 easy: Depends: lightblue1 (>= 0.3.1-1osso1) but it is not installable Feb 01 14:20:06 hmm Feb 01 14:21:15 Mece: just for your own use of to add to debian/control ? Feb 01 14:21:45 is there a way to run .install files from the command line? Feb 01 14:21:47 Mece: if just for your use (to facilitate your work), try installing "maemo-python-device-env" (from extras-devel) Feb 01 14:22:10 I'm going to be looking at getting a used N810 today. Can anyone suggest what I should look at, as in what usually goes bad on the N810 so I know what to look for? Feb 01 14:22:25 is there any way to modify the headers sent from the default fremantle browser, specifically to add pragma:no-cache and Cache-Control: no-cache Feb 01 14:22:26 Mece: this package should not be added to debian/control Feb 01 14:22:37 knowing myself, look at its corners for major bumps Feb 01 14:22:39 lizardo, I wanted to upload a new deb to garage to allow my friend to install the app. Feb 01 14:25:02 lizardo, I just want to do a 'debian/rules binary' to create a deb on the device. Feb 01 14:25:30 tga: mc is quite versatile (managing al kinda filetypes) Feb 01 14:26:03 Mece: hmm, have you tried installed the package I mentioned ? also "dpkg-dev" might help Feb 01 14:26:14 Mece: but I haven't tried that Feb 01 14:28:05 bobbob1016: got 2 new N810 for ~220EUR each. One has a weak contact on the power receptacle by now Feb 01 14:28:25 tga: I'm guessing "look for bumps" was for me? I know external stuff, I know to check the slider and keyboard, not sure what else. Feb 01 14:28:36 bobbob1016: kbd printing wears on heavy usage Feb 01 14:28:49 lizardo, didn't do it yet, just wanted to make sure that it was clear what I wanted to do. Is it a big package? my rootfs is rather low on space... Feb 01 14:28:51 DocScrutinizer: that gives me hope of selling my N800 for >100EUR Feb 01 14:29:09 DocScrutinizer I found one on craigslist for $75 (he said $10 off since it's like 30 miles south) Feb 01 14:29:09 moorning Feb 01 14:29:37 moo javispedro Feb 01 14:29:42 how do I run an .install file from the command line? Feb 01 14:30:30 Mece: I really don't know... if you are low on space , better not installing metapackages then ;) Feb 01 14:30:49 Mece: what errors you are having ATM when running debian/rules binary ? Feb 01 14:30:53 lizardo, ok. Feb 01 14:31:09 lizardo, permission denied, as root no less. Feb 01 14:31:59 Mece: you need to run it either as root or using "fakeroot" (I don't know if fakeroot is available on the device Feb 01 14:32:01 doh Feb 01 14:32:31 woot, easy is teh rules Feb 01 14:32:45 all I ever wanted for dealing with hardware Feb 01 14:33:24 lizardo, I actually have scratchbox ready on my server for remote packaging :) Feb 01 14:33:41 Mece: much better :) Feb 01 14:33:51 lizardo, yep :) Feb 01 14:34:34 Mece: if you really are both (1) low on storage space and (2) need to sabe battery, creating packages on the device is not the best option , I think :) Feb 01 14:36:19 lizardo, turns out there are outlets for every seat on this train, so it's ok now :) Feb 01 14:37:43 ah.. so where's that "slap tmo user" application? Feb 01 14:38:30 javispedro, :D indeed. Feb 01 14:38:31 * RST38h moos at javispedro Feb 01 14:38:41 morning RST38h Feb 01 14:39:01 javis: tmo users playing smart again? =) Feb 01 14:40:21 as usual. today we're back at "the hardware sucks, it's not as smooth as the idealized iphone". and also that one user who doesn't know what "-testing" is and just want apps _again_ . Feb 01 14:40:44 javis: why are they buing those N900s at the first place? Feb 01 14:41:37 who knows Feb 01 14:42:17 same people who buy tricycles and complain about the lack of a 4th wheel Feb 01 14:42:34 javispedro: ? :) IIRC it's the same chip as in the iphone 3GS, innit? Feb 01 14:42:37 * tybollt shrugs Feb 01 14:43:00 * RST38h suggests a hunting expedition to tmo Feb 01 14:43:21 tybollt: it's not exactly the "same chip" -- some parts of both chips designs are common (a8, sgx) but that's about it. Feb 01 14:43:47 * tybollt provides RST38h w/ the just the right rifles Feb 01 14:44:06 tybollt: actually, it's not even the same sgx. the iphone's one is a bit faster. Feb 01 14:44:34 sorry, but how would I delete a single song from actual playlist of mediaplayer? (or generally edit playlist beyond adding new songs to end of list?) Feb 01 14:45:22 ahhahaha Feb 01 14:45:24 javispedro: *shrug* :) Feb 01 14:45:30 DocScrut: You do not, it is a bug :) Feb 01 14:45:41 DocScrutinizer: cant you just touch and hold on the song then choose delete or remove from playlist? Feb 01 14:45:45 RST38h: thanks for confirming that Feb 01 14:46:14 DocScrutinizer: maybe will be fixed in harmattan Feb 01 14:46:25 Should hopefully be fixed in PR1.2 Feb 01 14:46:35 mtnbkr: no such menu entry Feb 01 14:47:07 gaah! who put all these tunnels here? keep loosing connection. Feb 01 14:47:48 RST38h: there will _be_ a PR1.2? Feb 01 14:47:55 is canola any better? Feb 01 14:47:55 yes. Feb 01 14:48:14 DocScrutinizer: then I must be thinking of something else... Feb 01 14:48:24 * mtnbkr picks up his N900 to look Feb 01 14:48:29 tybollt: there were rumours that there will event something after PR1.2 Feb 01 14:48:43 mtnbkr: maybe for stored playlists Feb 01 14:49:32 PR1.2 is confirmed; PR1.3 is "probable" IMO; PR1.4 is "possible" :) Feb 01 14:49:44 * tybollt found out why his phone would constantly "stick" in portraite after having used the phone part ... Feb 01 14:49:56 DocScrutinizer: ahhh no... I was mistaken... there are three options only... "remove this song" is not one of them... sorry! Feb 01 14:49:58 it's that silly "broken glass" app that makes it "stick" :) Feb 01 14:50:06 uninstall that -> no problem Feb 01 14:51:31 YES! the Imap bug I reported was FIXED... Now the waiting for next update begins... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8574 Feb 01 14:51:32 Bug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available Feb 01 14:51:58 javispedro, there's a PR2 in there. Feb 01 14:52:33 interesting Feb 01 14:52:48 Then I will be able to actually USE the email app Feb 01 14:54:42 hrw: Extinction event? Feb 01 14:55:19 * DocScrutinizer wonders when - if at all - nokia/maemo will consider to publish new versons of their *own* crap in maemo-devel. For users like mtnbkr Feb 01 14:56:01 btw great job with MWKN Feb 01 14:56:19 Doc: No. Feb 01 14:56:19 in fact the first piece of news I wasn't aware of was MWKN being online Feb 01 14:56:25 pretty ironic :) Feb 01 14:56:31 what media player is it in maemo? Feb 01 14:56:36 so, here you have: http://www.mwkn.net Feb 01 14:56:52 i want to add more stations thru xml file and ssh Feb 01 14:56:54 javis: I still do not understand why haven't they chosen some catchier site name Feb 01 14:57:18 hi ;) Feb 01 14:57:18 RST38h: because I guess the target audience is devs instead of Oct2009ers Feb 01 14:57:20 * mtnbkr liikes the "newspapery" look of MWKN Feb 01 14:57:51 RST38h: "No." means exactly what? Feb 01 14:58:24 * javispedro MWKN --> bookmarks Feb 01 14:58:52 exactly as catchy as american radio station names Feb 01 14:59:01 DocScrutinizer: Kinds of bums me out that I need to wait for a firmware release to fix that mail app. Too bad there is not a Thunderbird for Maemo5 :) Feb 01 14:59:24 mtnbkr: isn't the mail app open? Feb 01 14:59:43 Doc: No, Nokia will not place betas of its firmware into -devel Feb 01 14:59:48 mtnbkr: I've pulled some of the "fixed in fremantle" tinymail fixes for my n810 Feb 01 15:00:15 mtnbkr, go build the requisite packages. Feb 01 15:00:16 RST38h: is there a good rationale for that policy? Feb 01 15:00:19 javis: Oh, interesting, so they bet on Oct2009ers being unable to memorize four consonants in a row? ;) Feb 01 15:00:20 mtnbkr, the source is available. Feb 01 15:00:31 javispedro: the dev in that thread told me that I'd need to do some "tricky" stuff that might break the next update... I guess I didn;t tell him my extensive level of experience in *nix etc. ;) Feb 01 15:00:32 Doc: Of course not. Feb 01 15:00:35 DocScrutinizer, because that's not how their release process works. Feb 01 15:00:35 RST38h: you'd be surprised =) Feb 01 15:00:41 RST38h: aaah ok then Feb 01 15:00:43 Doc: Like it would have to be required... Feb 01 15:00:47 DocScrutinizer, and you can hardly expect the devs to invest their own free time in pushing packages. Feb 01 15:01:05 javis: Will they create "How to access weekly news" thread now? Feb 01 15:01:12 mtnbkr: so, backup and give it a try. Feb 01 15:01:40 GeneralAntilles: I would love to! Is there a URL for the maemo-specifc steps etc to do it? (I know htere is, but just looking for a URL) :) Feb 01 15:01:44 so let me rephrase: Feb 01 15:01:49 mtnbkr: that's why I often say the "no more updates" situation of the N810 is bliss. I get to decide what fixes I want for the OSS apps bugs. Feb 01 15:01:55 s/what/which Feb 01 15:01:57 mtnbkr: hmm that's an interesting pov... Feb 01 15:01:58 * DocScrutinizer wonders when - if at all - nokia/maemo product managers will consider to publish new versons of their *own* crap in maemo-devel. For users like mtnbkr Feb 01 15:01:59 javispedro: yeah nice. Feb 01 15:02:11 mtnbkr: I've done some thinking along those lines... Feb 01 15:02:16 DocScrutinizer, likely never. Feb 01 15:02:21 ack Feb 01 15:02:29 DocScrutinizer, unless somebody higher up decides that that's how things should be done. Feb 01 15:02:39 DocScrutinizer: easy answer. They will never do that for closed source packages, and they're already doing for (some) OSS packages (see gitorius) Feb 01 15:02:44 DocScrutinizer, there are too many goddamn Symbian people in Maemo Devices for things to ever really be sane. Feb 01 15:03:08 mtnbkr: like the built in apps that are seemlessly integrated into Hildon or a stand alone app that has its own gui but is ever so much more tested and proven to work? Feb 01 15:03:09 I see Feb 01 15:03:22 * GeneralAntilles has been on the receiving end of their culture shock too many times. Feb 01 15:03:55 We'd be better off if Nokia had stuck to hiring out of open source communities. . . . Feb 01 15:04:06 Nokia already does that Feb 01 15:04:13 this culture shock is also present in the "user side of the fence", see tmo. Feb 01 15:04:21 RST38h, they also pull in a ton of S60 people, too. Feb 01 15:04:23 Just count how many little OSS-based companies maemo Devices outsource to Feb 01 15:04:26 RST38h, which is where the problem lies. Feb 01 15:04:38 General: These are mostly managers / UI people, right? Feb 01 15:04:46 ... Ovi Maps people :) Feb 01 15:04:52 Ovi Maps is separate Feb 01 15:04:53 and Ovi Store Feb 01 15:04:54 grrr Feb 01 15:04:58 But, yeah, lots of managers. Feb 01 15:04:59 ovi shitshow :( Feb 01 15:05:04 pisses me off Feb 01 15:05:17 yay, what did I do?? :-P Feb 01 15:05:28 hello Feb 01 15:06:00 why n900 cant have multitouch? i heard that resistive touchscreens can support multitouch... Feb 01 15:06:02 or, maybe "what I've done?" Feb 01 15:06:14 LuciusMare, resistive can support algorithmic two-touch. Feb 01 15:06:14 cue "today in MWKN" jokes.... "symbian vs maemo war escalates" Feb 01 15:06:16 LuciusMare: It can. Feb 01 15:06:22 LuciusMare, multi-touch resistive is a separate technology. Feb 01 15:06:25 See Stantum. Feb 01 15:06:36 ah Feb 01 15:06:37 javispedro, nuke them from orbit. Feb 01 15:06:39 LuciusMare: it however requires a specially engineered resistive touchscreen, which is not in the n900 Feb 01 15:06:46 aw Feb 01 15:06:49 LuciusMare: they can, but only with a modified hw-driver to support this Feb 01 15:07:00 aw again. Feb 01 15:07:07 it's the hardware - not only the driver hardware Feb 01 15:07:44 * SpeedEvil wants SAW Feb 01 15:07:50 SpeedEvil: it's the R probing for each plane that's not inplemented in standard driver hw Feb 01 15:07:58 what does "algoritmic two touch" mean anyway? Feb 01 15:08:09 LuciusMare++ Feb 01 15:08:14 hmm.. i managed to lock the git repo when i got disconnected while doing a git push. anyone know how to complete the push or remove the lock? Feb 01 15:08:15 what the hell does that mean :) Feb 01 15:08:16 LuciusMare, meaning it can detect a second touch software-side. Feb 01 15:08:32 I _love_ the MWKN writing style: "The post contains lots more information, but boils down to "wait until the Maemo 6 alpha SDK is released". Those who think (hope?) that Maemo 6 will be made available for existing devices took this ambivalence as a further sign of hope; those who remember the transition from the 770 to N800 or N810 to N900 took it as further evidence that Maemo 6 will mean a new device;" Feb 01 15:08:33 So if you place one finger, then place a second finger, it can tell approximately where that second finger is. Feb 01 15:08:42 Which is not quite the same thing as proper multitouch. Feb 01 15:08:45 oh. Feb 01 15:08:57 As you can't detect subsequent motion of the fingers Feb 01 15:09:13 javispedro: at alpha sdk they announce nokia bought out apple and we're all wswitching to iphone os Feb 01 15:09:16 :P Feb 01 15:09:20 and you only get an approximate indication of where the seperate touch is Feb 01 15:09:47 Stskeeps: as I said a few months ago, for "Inverna" to be "as surprising as Harmattan" they are switching to E17. Feb 01 15:09:55 that sucks :( Feb 01 15:10:01 rewriting the media player again. Feb 01 15:10:18 javispedro: this is a joke right, E17? Feb 01 15:10:22 LuciusMare, basically, you end up with a point between the two touch points. Feb 01 15:10:37 LuciusMare, and you can find the vector to guess where the second touch point is. Feb 01 15:10:55 tybollt: of course not! =) Feb 01 15:10:57 and where along the line along the two touchpoints you are depends on pressure, touch area, and the wind over dubai. Feb 01 15:10:57 a rough guess though Feb 01 15:11:05 tybollt: e17 is perfectly fine Feb 01 15:11:10 s/you are/the touch is reported/ Feb 01 15:11:10 SpeedEvil: hah Feb 01 15:11:13 javispedro: no, worse!, - moving back to gtk Feb 01 15:11:14 :P Feb 01 15:11:31 javispedro: U G H! Feb 01 15:11:42 ~s/hah/meh/ Feb 01 15:11:53 aw, i thought infobot can do regexps Feb 01 15:11:56 shades of OM. Feb 01 15:12:13 GTK->QT->... Feb 01 15:12:19 Stskeeps, pish, they're porting Davlik. Feb 01 15:12:20 They're going to reveal they didn't have time to rewrite the Media Player in Qt and as such, Harmattan is a mix of Gtk/Qt code. Feb 01 15:12:29 GTK->QT->E17, you mean Feb 01 15:12:38 Stskeeps: yeah Feb 01 15:12:39 SpeedEvil: and,current state? if it detects this broad touch, it ignores it? Feb 01 15:12:57 and based on the Harmattan mockups, the entire OS will consist of Android widgets. Feb 01 15:13:01 LuciusMare: it detects it - but it interprets it as a touch movement - not a new touch Feb 01 15:13:04 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=623792 Feb 01 15:13:06 javispedro: I find it hard to grasp, there's olready GTK and QT, why bring even more bloat? What a mess :) Feb 01 15:13:13 hm Feb 01 15:13:15 LuciusMare: true MT on R-ts involves sensing the reduction of R over one plane, when a part of the distance between upper and lower end ist "shorted" by two distant touchpoints creating a bypass via the 2nd plane Feb 01 15:13:17 So we get to keep the osso_rss_reader app, with the non-finger friendly buttons and menus, in Harmattan! yay! Feb 01 15:13:36 tybollt, sarcasm detector failure. ;) Feb 01 15:13:44 Along with the next upgrade comes an extra RAM chip, and a soldering station. Feb 01 15:13:54 zing Feb 01 15:14:05 javispedro: maemoblocks should never go away Feb 01 15:14:11 and a pair of @nokias Feb 01 15:14:17 LuciusMare: current hw has no means to sense this R reduction Feb 01 15:14:20 Stskeeps: it should get a score though. Feb 01 15:14:33 Stskeeps: highscore Feb 01 15:14:39 I wonder if Nokia will license the "Tetris" trademark some day (Palm did) Feb 01 15:14:52 DocScrutinizer: thank you for explanation Feb 01 15:14:59 yw Feb 01 15:15:08 My most beloved russian export. Feb 01 15:15:09 and anyway, i heard some rumors...apple patented "mt" didnt it? Feb 01 15:16:14 SpeedEvil: "The Tetris Company LLC, aka TTC, is based in Hawaii..." Feb 01 15:16:37 LuciusMare: nope Feb 01 15:17:28 It's gotten to the point that when I farted yesterday, I imediately went on the net to find out whom I should pay a royalty to for farting... Feb 01 15:17:31 i think i heard it in an article where was explained why google (htc) didnt include the mt driver in g1 Feb 01 15:18:10 Apple couldn't patent MT since it was happening way before Apple though about the iphone. they have some patents on some of the gesture gimmicks iirc. Feb 01 15:18:22 ah Feb 01 15:18:38 javispedro: exactly Feb 01 15:18:43 which, if any, should be software patents. Feb 01 15:19:08 synaptics does MT on their touchpads Feb 01 15:19:39 and that resistive screens company (trustum? trantum? trantor?) Feb 01 15:19:52 javis: So if Apple has no patent on mt, why mt is still not being used everywhere? Feb 01 15:20:09 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2007/0262964.html Feb 01 15:20:11 *sees backlog* stantum. Feb 01 15:20:27 javispedro: traitor, i guess Feb 01 15:20:36 RST38h: because potentially - microsoft has the patent ()see url above :) Feb 01 15:20:48 screw patents Feb 01 15:21:16 interesting Feb 01 15:21:32 tybollt: It says "tablet pc" though Feb 01 15:21:39 huh. Feb 01 15:21:59 tybollt: that's a pretty nice thing to throw to an Apple user on the face, even if it were only 1% accurate (which I don't know). Feb 01 15:22:03 Microsoft tablet pc? Feb 01 15:22:08 RST38h: IANAL... wouldn't know how the law interprets the diff Feb 01 15:22:09 "here you have, Microsoft has the patent on multitouch!" Feb 01 15:22:18 oh man, I'd like to do that Feb 01 15:22:24 *thinks of the nearest apple fanboy* Feb 01 15:22:46 haha Feb 01 15:22:49 javispedro: calm down - that what I refered to is an application - AFAIK it has yet to be granted. Feb 01 15:22:52 2009ȫֻﵽ˿ǰ 1.738ڲ20081.511ڲ15% Feb 01 15:23:02 bubill: i agree Feb 01 15:23:02 which is what I said _potemtially_ Feb 01 15:23:06 line noise? Feb 01 15:23:14 s/what/why/ Feb 01 15:23:22 tybollt: and that is what I said "even if it's only 1% accurate :)" Feb 01 15:23:27 s/what/why Feb 01 15:23:37 heh. Feb 01 15:23:41 javispedro: Just seed it on tmo Feb 01 15:23:42 damit, stop making the same typo I do ;-D Feb 01 15:23:46 actually, that wasn't intentional. Feb 01 15:23:50 RST38h: when you got a patent on the knot on shoe straps, I patent same thing on my boots :-P Feb 01 15:24:02 javispedro: And transdickify them as they come Feb 01 15:24:27 actually, does patenting gestures make sense? Feb 01 15:24:58 LuciusMare: does patents make sense? Feb 01 15:25:03 gotta patent the middle finger gesture Feb 01 15:25:09 LOL Feb 01 15:25:10 ! Feb 01 15:25:11 * RST38h patents sense Feb 01 15:25:19 * LuciusMare patents patenting Feb 01 15:25:27 ha! Feb 01 15:25:31 LuciusMare: IBM already did that :P Feb 01 15:25:36 damn Feb 01 15:25:40 rotfl Feb 01 15:25:41 "We claim: 1. A handheld computer comprising: a CPU executing a palm operating system in which executable programs are directly accessed from a permanent data storage in a database format; where said database format applies equally to data files which are formatted in palm file formats." Feb 01 15:25:50 * satmd patents patenting patents Feb 01 15:25:51 prior art never stopped corporations Feb 01 15:25:56 but Feb 01 15:26:01 patents make sense Feb 01 15:26:13 actuall think of spending years on project Feb 01 15:26:14 * mtnbkr patents recursive patenting of patents Feb 01 15:26:14 not in IT Feb 01 15:26:36 then here comes joe r random, reads your data and gets shitload of money Feb 01 15:26:46 how did the software patent thing ever play out here in EU anyway? There is software patents now? Feb 01 15:27:05 currently not allowed but the local patent offices do it anyway Feb 01 15:27:06 s/data/research/ Feb 01 15:27:12 * DocScrutinizer patents recursion and boolean logic Feb 01 15:27:12 tybollt: they're being granted, but no sane judicial system is going to force you to license them Feb 01 15:27:21 DocScrutinizer: 0! Feb 01 15:27:23 `ACTA... Feb 01 15:27:37 SpeedEvil: please don't curse, sir. Feb 01 15:27:47 huh Feb 01 15:27:56 busybox's tar can't untar bzip? Feb 01 15:28:18 * satmd compares patents on software with keeping ideas to yourself but saying eh beh, this is how it works, now pay me Feb 01 15:28:24 LuciusMare ,are you chinese? Feb 01 15:28:38 ~nuke busybox Feb 01 15:28:48 LuciusMare, err, I've untar-red a bzip before Feb 01 15:28:52 infobot: ping Feb 01 15:28:53 ~nuke tybollt Feb 01 15:28:56 weird. Feb 01 15:28:58 you killed infobot! Feb 01 15:29:09 he apparently nuked him Feb 01 15:29:29 ~curse patents Feb 01 15:29:36 yep, it's broken :p Feb 01 15:29:40 chanop may invite Feb 01 15:29:42 bubill: no,why? Feb 01 15:29:55 n900 doesnt even have bzip2 by default Feb 01 15:30:07 inz it does here Feb 01 15:30:20 tar: invalid option -- j Feb 01 15:30:27 i wanted to install it and it said it was already installed Feb 01 15:30:34 huh Feb 01 15:30:46 so pipe your tar/bzip command , is it really that hard? Feb 01 15:30:57 LuciusMare, bzip2 -d (filename) Feb 01 15:31:00 * tybollt hands out bongs Feb 01 15:31:14 moha ad, maybe it was installed as a dependency for sth Feb 01 15:31:15 stand back, i thought its preinstalled Feb 01 15:31:26 bzip2 is preinstalled Feb 01 15:31:27 * DocScrutinizer smokes all his patents Feb 01 15:31:27 moha, mine for sure doesnt have Feb 01 15:31:34 MohammadAG: i dont have it Feb 01 15:32:06 preinstalled here Feb 01 15:32:18 busybox crap Feb 01 15:32:20 just used apt-get and it set it to manually installed Feb 01 15:32:25 bzip2 set to manually installed. Feb 01 15:32:46 with a bzip2 is already the newest version. before that Feb 01 15:33:02 tar -j didn't work for me though Feb 01 15:33:22 (-jxvf) Feb 01 15:33:55 Prototype Phone Shifts Weight and Thickness, Right In Your Hand [Concepts] Feb 01 15:34:04 hi Feb 01 15:34:14 moha, you dont happend to have installed easy-deb-chroot at any point? Feb 01 15:34:26 now,again,please for us not really cli people, what is the whole pipe command? Feb 01 15:34:58 pipe is not a command, its more like an operator Feb 01 15:35:05 hah Feb 01 15:35:07 i know Feb 01 15:35:24 inz, i do Feb 01 15:35:29 but i dont know how to use tar to accept from pipe Feb 01 15:35:35 [2010-02-01 16:30:46] so pipe your tar/bzip command , is it really that hard? Feb 01 15:35:47 yes, i dont know how Feb 01 15:35:53 mohammad, well, thats the reason you have bzip2 Feb 01 15:35:56 LuciusMare, apt-get install bzip2 then do the command i typed Feb 01 15:35:57 LuciusMare, tar c . | tar xf - Feb 01 15:36:10 LuciusMare, and man tar Feb 01 15:36:22 hah Feb 01 15:36:24 no man here Feb 01 15:36:40 curse that Feb 01 15:36:43 there are man pages on the web Feb 01 15:36:46 LuciusMare, use google, the net is full of man pages Feb 01 15:36:53 not even mandb in any repo Feb 01 15:37:06 wait,how come it reads correctly even if there is not specified to decompress it? Feb 01 15:37:23 ok, got a new comicwidget deb out. Anyone wanna try it? Feb 01 15:37:54 ptman: that's not a googlephone Feb 01 15:37:56 hi all Feb 01 15:38:11 DocScrutinizer: dont say googlephone's got man Feb 01 15:38:11 DocScrutinizer, ok, so use yahoo, or bing Feb 01 15:39:14 googlephone is an always-online system - I want manpages when in the outback Feb 01 15:39:25 DocScrutinizer: I found that sad to be honest... would've loved to have man pages on there... very nifty Feb 01 15:39:36 tybollt, they take up valuable space. Feb 01 15:39:36 well if someone's interested, here is the widget: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=1276 Feb 01 15:39:37 manpages take up a shitload of space Feb 01 15:39:37 :P Feb 01 15:39:46 can anyone tell me the quick way to downgrade Conversations from 0.8 to 0.7? if I totally remove it and then install again 0.7, will it keep my settings? Feb 01 15:39:53 For something that maybe 1 in 1000 customers might ever even use. Feb 01 15:39:56 GeneralAntilles: optify, then :) Feb 01 15:40:04 GeneralAntilles: ooh yeah, so much of my valuable 32G Feb 01 15:40:16 More complicated than that. Feb 01 15:41:06 DocScrutinizer: 256mb, thank you very much Feb 01 15:41:07 :P Feb 01 15:41:16 bah Feb 01 15:41:39 Mek: comics can be set to whatever we want? Feb 01 15:41:43 or is there a fixed list? Feb 01 15:42:18 anyway not having it it tols or devel even is really mean Feb 01 15:42:31 tools repo Feb 01 15:52:23 jr@halley:~> du /usr/share/man/ # 55M /usr/share/man/ Feb 01 15:52:49 55m is a shitload on a mobile device better used for features Feb 01 15:52:54 that's a full desktop system Feb 01 15:53:39 no, it's not. Feb 01 15:53:45 In the context of a 32G / Feb 01 15:54:10 / is 256 mb on n900 Feb 01 15:54:13 but it isn't a 32g / .. Feb 01 15:54:20 I'm kinda surprised docpurge doesn't purge /usr/share/man Feb 01 15:54:26 ... or maybe it does? Feb 01 15:54:28 it does Feb 01 15:54:31 just noticed the @halley Feb 01 15:54:42 anyone else use the Maemo mail app and wander why OH WHY sent messages are not copied to the server and only kept on the device? Feb 01 15:54:56 i liked chinook's mail client better. Feb 01 15:55:00 mtnbkr, yep Feb 01 15:55:07 I kinda liked the last ukbdcreator changelog: "add examples and format documentation in /usr/share/doc/..." Feb 01 15:55:10 furunk3l: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8751 Feb 01 15:55:11 Bug 8751: Sent items should go into Sent folder on SERVER Feb 01 15:55:16 ;) Feb 01 15:55:17 actually i wonder why the Maemo Mail app doesnt download all the email when using imap and has to reload the mail through an internet connection all the freaking time Feb 01 15:55:26 because atm the mail app sucks Feb 01 15:55:33 i want imap-idle Feb 01 15:55:41 or profimail :p Feb 01 15:55:41 with 32gb of storage you would think you can keep all your mail on the phone Feb 01 15:55:44 like an iphone Feb 01 15:55:48 as much as I HATE to say it, The Apple iPhone IMAP client "gets it right" Feb 01 15:55:54 siriusnova, thats not the point Feb 01 15:55:54 yeap Feb 01 15:56:07 i heavily use the phone for my company mails Feb 01 15:56:28 Making it configurable is the right way Feb 01 15:56:30 with imap you just download the sent mails to your desktop computer Feb 01 15:56:30 well, use POP3 =) Feb 01 15:56:35 but there needs to be a setting for downloading email messages and headers Feb 01 15:56:43 and you are all set Feb 01 15:57:04 pop3 wipes out the mailbox no? Feb 01 15:57:05 javispedro, i dont want all my company mails on the phone Feb 01 15:57:14 i want them on the server Feb 01 15:57:18 and synced Feb 01 15:57:36 hah I know, I'll send me all the manpages per mail :-P Feb 01 15:57:42 siriusnova: not necessarily. most POP3 apps offer a "delete mail after downloading" option or somesuch Feb 01 15:57:58 * DocScrutinizer giggles insanely Feb 01 15:57:59 DocScrutinizer: put them in your Sent folder. Feb 01 15:58:00 but doesnt the iphone mail app use imap Feb 01 15:58:00 * mtnbkr ducks Feb 01 15:58:03 imap-idle is the way to go Feb 01 15:58:05 and manage to have local copies of your mail Feb 01 15:58:10 how does that work Feb 01 15:58:15 implement imap-idle in modest Feb 01 15:58:26 siriusnova: I htink you can choose on iPhone POP or IMAP... I OLNY and ALWAYS use IMAP though. Feb 01 15:58:29 again, modest is oss. Feb 01 15:58:46 me too Feb 01 15:59:10 IMAP is as insaner as http-manpages Feb 01 16:00:06 javispedro: modest is crap :-D Feb 01 16:00:37 oh, it all depends on what features you want Feb 01 16:00:44 ack Feb 01 16:01:01 just kidding Feb 01 16:01:03 I still like the UI so on N810 I ended up heavily patching it Feb 01 16:01:45 didn't have facepalming issues on the N900 yet with it so i'm still using the pr1.0 one Feb 01 16:03:51 javispedro: I did... Mail currently is unuseable to me: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8574 Feb 01 16:03:51 Bug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available Feb 01 16:04:59 I hate the missing option to select different "from" for same account. For mailaccounts with multiple aliases Feb 01 16:05:00 mtnbkr: ask him what kind of problems he meant. if it's anything other than "the modest data store format has changed" I'd say patch and build. Feb 01 16:05:24 and then I find out that sent messages are not copied to server... sigh... They really should have thought the email app out before release. Feb 01 16:06:06 DocScrutinizer: ha. I use fake pop3 accounts on my server for that =) Feb 01 16:06:06 javispedro: will do . goona ask for the exact steps after expl,aining that I am an experienced Linux/Unix admin ;) Feb 01 16:08:06 http://gizmodo.com/5302097/giz-bill-nye-explains-the-iphone-3gss-oleophobic-screen/gallery/ Feb 01 16:10:09 http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2009/07/iphonegrease_01.jpg find the 9 differences Feb 01 16:10:37 s/find/spot Feb 01 16:12:48 Hrm, are there any maemo RSS/Atom readers that'll do notifications on new feed items? Feb 01 16:13:28 javispedro: I guess you have to try with olive oil to see the difference... Feb 01 16:16:14 or apple fan boy dna in your oil excreting cells... Feb 01 16:17:13 * GeneralAntilles expects it's time to give in and just CC on bugs like a normal person. Feb 01 16:17:32 GeneralAntilles: seems sane! Feb 01 16:17:54 javispedro: you mean, even their excretions are slick and shiny? Feb 01 16:18:00 w00t, for a while I was trying to track all new changes, but there's just too much stuff that I don't care about. Feb 01 16:18:20 GeneralAntilles: frankly, I don't think there are enough hours in the day Feb 01 16:18:32 w00t, there used to be plenty. Feb 01 16:18:35 yeah.. Feb 01 16:18:40 but things have kinda grown a little Feb 01 16:18:42 RST38h: :) Feb 01 16:18:44 w00t, but then Fremantle hit and the number of incoming reports quadrupled. Feb 01 16:19:01 I used to be able to track talk without spending 6 hours a day on there, too Feb 01 16:19:01 Last 24 hours we have 32 UNCONFIRMED reports. Feb 01 16:19:09 226 bugs changed in the last 48 hours. Feb 01 16:19:14 * w00t nods Feb 01 16:19:29 w00t, well, the good news with Talk is that most of it isn't worth paying any attention to. ;) Feb 01 16:19:30 (that rate of incoming reports is a bit worrying, are they all being triaged?) Feb 01 16:19:34 psh Feb 01 16:19:35 General: Need a cool Flash UI to see those Feb 01 16:19:40 w00t, no. Feb 01 16:19:46 I'll have you know I used to enjoy talk Feb 01 16:19:48 w00t, Andre's very good at picking them all up EVENTUALLY Feb 01 16:20:13 hrrm. Feb 01 16:20:14 no, they are not all triaged... Feb 01 16:20:16 w00t, with Talk, I can open up New Posts in the morning, go through 8 pages of threads and maybe open 2 or 3 in tabs. Feb 01 16:20:24 w00t, we really need more triagers. . . . Feb 01 16:20:39 GeneralAntilles: is that a hint? :-( Feb 01 16:20:45 w00t, *g* Feb 01 16:20:58 actually, I do have one bug I can close, because it's useless keeping it open Feb 01 16:21:00 * w00t finds it Feb 01 16:21:17 w00t, take over as default assignee for mer bugs Feb 01 16:21:18 : Feb 01 16:21:30 Stskeeps: sure, if you don't mind me pestering you 24x7 Feb 01 16:21:35 w00t: you already do Feb 01 16:21:47 Stskeeps: good point. go ahead! :P Feb 01 16:22:00 /j #ubu Feb 01 16:22:35 do we have one or two bugmasters atm, btw? Feb 01 16:22:40 errgle. Feb 01 16:22:53 One Feb 01 16:22:58 Karsten's on loan. Feb 01 16:23:02 cos Karsten seems mentioned at times Feb 01 16:23:02 k Feb 01 16:23:11 and he deserves a cookie Feb 01 16:23:46 pupnik, no cookies until 3.4 is live! Feb 01 16:24:07 Karsten is in the background currently, as I want him to fully concentrate on getting 3.4 running Feb 01 16:24:15 so, yes, he is around, but not very visible Feb 01 16:24:28 once we have 3.4 it's time to see how to continue Feb 01 16:25:03 :nod: good to have someone cracking on the technical side Feb 01 16:25:28 oh yeah, because I suck with such stuff Feb 01 16:25:59 andre__: you might not suck, but your time is probably more valuable elsewhere Feb 01 16:26:07 ..at least I think that's a more positive way of viewing it ;) Feb 01 16:26:28 w00t, hehe Feb 01 16:26:34 * w00t takes a look at recent reports in bugs. Feb 01 16:26:34 If anybody wants to be a winner, save yourself a search like this https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?bug_file_loc=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&chfield=%5BBug%20creation%5D&chfieldfrom=1d Feb 01 16:26:45 and see if you can't poke at 5 of those bugs a day. Feb 01 16:27:02 doesn't work! doesn't work! Feb 01 16:27:08 I have no idea why, but that failed horribly Feb 01 16:27:37 Hrm, works here. Feb 01 16:27:45 Bugzilla URL cleansing still confuses me. Feb 01 16:28:05 Well, UNCONFIRMED bugs whose [Bug creation] date was in the last 24 hours. Feb 01 16:28:05 agreed Feb 01 16:28:26 bah, the quips are more boring every day Feb 01 16:28:30 "hi" is not a quip Feb 01 16:28:36 quipsquad!! where are thou!! Feb 01 16:29:13 noooooooooooo Feb 01 16:29:18 not even gettext crossbuilds Feb 01 16:29:20 this is plain sick Feb 01 16:29:47 i love deps like gettext Feb 01 16:30:05 should be here somewhere Feb 01 16:30:41 but i cant fix such things for builder Feb 01 16:30:48 i am trying http://gentooarm.powderluv.org/ and see if I can get to the 50th package without having to poke the ebuilds Feb 01 16:32:19 neat javispedro .. but why Feb 01 16:33:00 cause I want a better chroot than debian's armv4 Feb 01 16:33:45 javispedro: there are binaries available of that you know Feb 01 16:34:11 without nls (don't ask) Feb 01 16:34:11 ali1234: binaries are for pussies Feb 01 16:34:21 lol Feb 01 16:34:25 i was tempted to play with chroot but it doesnt help maemo Feb 01 16:34:51 building modest 3.2.x takes too much time Feb 01 16:35:20 I wonder about system-upgrades/ repo creation Feb 01 16:35:33 javispedro: actually i'm not sure that's the same overlay Feb 01 16:42:53 ali1234: is anyone doing a gles psx plugin? Feb 01 16:43:01 no idea Feb 01 16:43:26 i heard that 3d acceleration for the gpu does not help much with psx, cos it's so simple Feb 01 16:43:27 shit. i hears some talk of it last year Feb 01 16:44:06 it's certainly my experience with desktop emulators that the GL plugins are flaky, crashy, glitchy etc, and software is almost perfect emulation Feb 01 16:44:14 you're right about psx Feb 01 16:44:31 i think i might have read it in a comment in the psx4all source :) Feb 01 16:45:34 either that or some blog while looking for an arm dynarec Feb 01 16:45:41 Preparing to replace modest 3.0.17-rc66+0m5 (using .../modest_3.2.13-0.hrw1_i386.deb) ... Feb 01 16:46:26 anyone care to tell me how i get QT Network components installed on the n900? Feb 01 16:46:31 jo Feb 01 16:46:36 i tried installing som qt4dev packages but no work.. :\ Feb 01 16:46:45 Zeddy: apt-cache search qt network Feb 01 16:47:38 Is it normal that my ping to my AP is like "28ms" Feb 01 16:47:54 I tested it with my laptop in the same location and ping came out to be 0.5ms Feb 01 16:48:09 libqt4-maemo5-network-dbg Feb 01 16:48:32 also on this network n900 has really slow connection speed in certain aspects Feb 01 16:48:39 like ssh takes years Feb 01 16:48:50 oke, not years but like 5mins Feb 01 16:49:06 thats years in ssh language Feb 01 16:49:07 :P Feb 01 16:49:43 gotta try to connect directly to the ip. Just in case it is the same server O_o Feb 01 16:49:49 Dassu: ssh from my wired desktop to my wifi N900 takes about <1 second Feb 01 16:50:53 Dassu: if you are ssh'ing OUT of the n900 to another machine it could be a simple reverse DNS issue causing what appears to be a long delay in connecting Feb 01 16:50:54 yeah, eeven to the AP the ssh takes a loing time O_o Feb 01 16:51:07 mtnbkr: Tried with the IP to Feb 01 16:51:08 o Feb 01 16:52:07 that doe snto mappter. sounds like reverse dns. When you ssh to a server the server can be configured to do a reverse lookup of the IP you are coming from. If there is no mapping, this can sometimes cause the long delays you are describing Feb 01 16:52:14 hrw, you rock.. Feb 01 16:52:20 i found the missing parts... Feb 01 16:52:21 s/doe snto mappter/does not matter/ Feb 01 16:52:55 Dassu: see if you can disable reverse DNS lookups on the servers/devices you are trying to ssh into Feb 01 16:54:01 oh Feb 01 16:54:05 I'll try that Feb 01 16:55:26 Is there a chiming clock in the repos anywhere? Feb 01 16:56:24 mtnbkr: oke Feb 01 16:56:33 mtnbkr: helped a lot Feb 01 16:56:52 but damnit Feb 01 16:57:01 I dont have access to another box I use :D Feb 01 16:57:59 wait Feb 01 16:58:50 testing... Feb 01 16:59:42 seen t-tan Feb 01 16:59:51 its seems like it works if I have just used the browser O_o Feb 01 17:00:12 Looks like my IMAP Sent folder issues were already in the bugs database and I was directed to "vote" here for an appropriate possible fix: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/keep_sent_and_drafts_on_imap_server/?net_nemein_favourites_execute=fav&net_nemein_favourites_execute_for=18fca2043b5b11dea696b58b2eb67fd17fd1&net_nemein_favourites_url=/news/favorites/json/fav/org_maemo_brainstorm_idea_solution/18fca2043b5b11dea696b58b2eb67fd17fd1/ Feb 01 17:00:15 ug Feb 01 17:00:30 sorry... tinyurl to follow Feb 01 17:00:45 h mm... Feb 01 17:01:07 http://tinyurl.com/ydjuet7 Feb 01 17:01:29 yeah... Feb 01 17:01:33 wtf Feb 01 17:02:10 lol Feb 01 17:02:15 check first and last solutions Feb 01 17:02:46 Dassu: it is also possible that the resolving library on the server caches negative lookups for a while which would explain that behavior Feb 01 17:03:07 well Feb 01 17:03:13 SpeedEvil: Yep... I voted down all the others and then voted up #1 and #11 which are exactly the same thing :) Feb 01 17:04:39 my connection works great if I launch the browser at the same time O_o Feb 01 17:04:56 otherwise it takes a minute Feb 01 17:05:51 is it possible that the wlan is in power save? Feb 01 17:06:33 SpeedEvil: any idea how much water brainstorm holds with Nokia? I mean, seems like a lot of people (well 161 last time I clicked) want this IMAP sent folder thing fxed in a sensible manner... Does Nokia even care or pay attention to brainstorm? Feb 01 17:06:47 ill disable the power save just to check Feb 01 17:07:58 erk Feb 01 17:08:05 Does Nokia even care or pay attention to brainstorm? Feb 01 17:08:17 yeah Feb 01 17:08:18 I just typed halt before removing the battery instead of using the button and when I powered it back on it reset my date Feb 01 17:08:19 nokia doesnt care about maemo Feb 01 17:08:21 :p Feb 01 17:08:28 siriusnova: lol Feb 01 17:08:29 I wonder what other settings are lost :-/ Feb 01 17:08:37 seeems to be faster with no power save Feb 01 17:08:44 Damion2: type sync three times first :) Feb 01 17:09:04 maemo is the red headed step child of Nokia, its better in every way but Symbian will always be Nokia's First Love so it gets the most attention Feb 01 17:09:05 and click your heels Feb 01 17:09:08 shutdown -t 0 now -halt Feb 01 17:09:10 SpeedEvil: heh Feb 01 17:09:25 I don't know why it ran me through the localisation stfuf Feb 01 17:09:47 I guess halt doesn't run the same rc stuff has a power down and so left some semaphore somewhere which made poweron think it was postreset Feb 01 17:10:16 oke Feb 01 17:10:19 Dassu: hmm, I have power save enabled on mine, and it connects instantly to my server. Feb 01 17:10:26 take that back Feb 01 17:10:37 siriusnova: maemo requires rough love, but it doesn't mean it will be any less loved ;-) Feb 01 17:10:40 I take that back Feb 01 17:10:47 Myrtti Feb 01 17:10:50 what are you doing here Feb 01 17:10:51 D: Feb 01 17:11:00 arent you supposed to be in buntuland Feb 01 17:11:01 :p Feb 01 17:11:10 at first it connected fast Feb 01 17:11:11 I don't see why symbian has to be ! maemo Feb 01 17:11:14 let them coexist Feb 01 17:11:20 i hope guys at the top at Nokia push for Maemo to be their top os... to hell with Symbian Feb 01 17:11:20 symbian has its niche Feb 01 17:11:33 no Feb 01 17:11:38 symbian doesn't need to die Feb 01 17:11:49 siriusnova: maemo is what I do for bread and a bottle of wine Feb 01 17:11:51 with qt's maemo and symbian port its easy to make apps for both Feb 01 17:11:57 oh Feb 01 17:12:03 not saying die.... just make it for lower end devices Feb 01 17:12:19 Kajko: that's what it is today :) Feb 01 17:12:31 yes Feb 01 17:12:33 symbian doesn't need less love... it's about maemo needing more love Feb 01 17:12:42 ^ Feb 01 17:13:19 now how do we convey this to espoo? :) Feb 01 17:14:27 tybollt: as long as symbian is their goose of golden eggs, it will be loved to keep laying golden eggs to fund maemo Feb 01 17:15:21 tybollt: though, the birth of symbian foundation is a sign of a goose coup being rebuilt Feb 01 17:16:58 anyway I long for the day when maemo becomes a ... non-enthusiast OS. Feb 01 17:17:03 mtnbkr: Hmm, do you have static IP set? Feb 01 17:17:19 Dassu: no not on N900 Feb 01 17:17:25 yeah. Feb 01 17:17:37 All the other networks work fine but I have static IP for this one Feb 01 17:18:10 if you need static ip on your n900 - set it via dhcpd Feb 01 17:18:12 I'm gonna keep on testing this Feb 01 17:18:18 Dassu: and I just verified that I don't have a reverseDNS Ip mapping either, but 99.999% sure I have disbaled reverseDNS lookups on my ssh server for the exact reason I mentioned. :) Feb 01 17:18:43 mtnbkr: well. when I set power_save off Feb 01 17:18:52 tybollt: no, symbian does not have its niche beacuse it is not niche product. maemo is niche product. Feb 01 17:18:54 mtnbkr: It all works normally Feb 01 17:18:56 O_o Feb 01 17:19:09 Stskeeps, have you tried compiling latest kernel without https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7972 Feb 01 17:19:10 Bug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found Feb 01 17:19:11 I have tried that for like 10 times now Feb 01 17:19:15 Interesting. well, at least you have a "fix" :) Feb 01 17:19:18 also tried the medium power save Feb 01 17:19:24 same problem Feb 01 17:19:27 odin_: you can build kernel without fiasco-gen Feb 01 17:20:07 hrw, just not with dpkg-buildpackage Feb 01 17:20:49 odin_: I do not use it Feb 01 17:26:50 odin_: - a fix is in progress. but yes, with modification it is entirely possible. Feb 01 17:30:57 hms why garage accounts are not connected to talk Feb 01 17:31:55 because single signon is not yet reached unity Feb 01 17:32:18 lcuk nokia should hire another admin Feb 01 17:32:21 for maemo Feb 01 17:32:54 i suggest we clone X-Fade Feb 01 17:33:11 * johnsu01 is wondering about best practices for changelog, version numbers etc for packages ported from debian Feb 01 17:33:34 johnsu01 debian-versionmaemao1 Feb 01 17:33:40 args Feb 01 17:33:42 maemo1 Feb 01 17:33:43 johnsu01: debian: 2.3.4-5 so maemo: 2.3.4-5m1 Feb 01 17:33:47 at the and Feb 01 17:33:49 or 2.3.4-5maemo1 Feb 01 17:33:49 johnsu01: there's a policy Feb 01 17:33:54 hrw m? Feb 01 17:33:57 m suckz Feb 01 17:34:15 woglinde: it does indeed - thats why nOkia uses it Feb 01 17:34:38 old policy said maemo Feb 01 17:35:20 cool, glad I asked Feb 01 17:35:26 whereabouts is the policy documented? Feb 01 17:35:31 hi Feb 01 17:35:41 johnsu01 somewhere in the wiki Feb 01 17:35:49 woglinde: "modest 3.2.13-0.hrw1" is my way Feb 01 17:36:03 does anyone know where I can grab the data from the ambient light sensor ? Feb 01 17:36:49 http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Checking_Maemo_Packages Feb 01 17:37:08 Porting an existing Debian package Feb 01 17:37:30 hrw thats cos you have a cool enough nick to make that practical Feb 01 17:37:44 oh and I tried the 2nd (front) camera with mplayer and gstreamer and it looks horrible, not webcam bad but a lot worse more like a wrongly configured webcam in almost complete darkness ... Feb 01 17:38:11 dpro: try it in sunlight Feb 01 17:38:28 Or with it within 20cm of a 100w bulb Feb 01 17:38:34 args the pdf Feb 01 17:38:36 is there a memo.org packages website Feb 01 17:38:40 kind of packages.ubuntu.com Feb 01 17:38:40 has the 2008 version still Feb 01 17:38:42 a list of all packages Feb 01 17:38:47 woglinde: Thanks Feb 01 17:38:52 siriusnova: surprisingly, yes Feb 01 17:38:55 SpeedEvil: ah so it is _that_ bad then ? Feb 01 17:38:57 no, hold on. Feb 01 17:39:01 where? Feb 01 17:39:03 I need coffee Feb 01 17:39:12 * dpro just had coffee :) Feb 01 17:39:22 * lcuk pokes Myrtti Feb 01 17:40:02 * Myrtti grunts, as her back is sore Feb 01 17:40:08 I nead bacon Feb 01 17:40:42 :( Myrtti not good Feb 01 17:40:47 i just had bacon and egg woglinde Feb 01 17:40:49 was lovely Feb 01 17:41:16 I had my MRI. I feel lighter now. Specifically, 410€ lighter Feb 01 17:41:22 *sniffles* Feb 01 17:41:33 For an MRI? Feb 01 17:41:35 Cheap! Feb 01 17:41:38 yeah, it is Feb 01 17:41:45 only in EU :) Feb 01 17:42:03 it's also about half of the credit limit on my credit card Feb 01 17:42:03 mri? Feb 01 17:42:09 410 euros for a MRI Feb 01 17:42:12 OUCH! Feb 01 17:42:16 Magnetic resonance imagary. Feb 01 17:42:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_resonance_imaging Feb 01 17:42:25 i thought healthcare was free in Europe Feb 01 17:42:27 or something Feb 01 17:42:33 siriusnova: list price before national health insurance reimbursement is 700€ Feb 01 17:42:33 MRI is a _beautiful_ application of maths. Feb 01 17:42:33 :( Feb 01 17:42:34 siriusnova: try an mri w/out insurance in .us, heh Feb 01 17:42:38 oh Feb 01 17:42:41 1100 for my mri Feb 01 17:42:44 yikes Feb 01 17:43:08 they are expensive machines Feb 01 17:43:08 (and oh yes, this was a lower back/lumbar mri) Feb 01 17:43:20 what they find? Feb 01 17:43:37 You select a slice of tissue by applying the right magnetic field and gradient, then apply a pulse of RF to excite that tissue, then manipulate the gradients a bit - and you get an output RF in terms of frequency along one axis of the slice, and phase across the other. Feb 01 17:44:04 remains to be seen, but most probably a slipped disc pinching a nerve Feb 01 17:44:11 Myrtti, ouch. Feb 01 17:44:15 :/ Feb 01 17:44:28 i got fixed by surgery Feb 01 17:44:51 wazd, Marina came together really nicely. Feb 01 17:45:01 the current diagnosis is M51.1, Lumbar and other intervertebral disc disorders with radiculopathy Feb 01 17:45:06 pupnik: what was broken? Feb 01 17:45:47 but for further planning of fixing whatever is broken, they need the MRI Feb 01 17:45:58 anyway Feb 01 17:46:18 I saw a really purty blue theme for N900 today on my google reader ♥ Feb 01 17:49:07 Myrtti: marina one? Feb 01 17:49:30 probably Feb 01 17:53:16 Has anyone changed the way his nokia does some mounts? Feb 01 17:53:32 * Wizzup personally doesn't like a /tmp/ of only 1mb Feb 01 17:54:08 use /var/tmp for that kinda stuff Feb 01 17:54:23 Wizzup: yes, its not very difficult to change mountpoints Feb 01 17:54:32 ok, because my app manager keeps telling me there is not enough space on the device when updating devel-extra Feb 01 17:54:33 does anyone know why the fstab is generated every boot? Feb 01 17:54:45 Wizzup: reboot first Feb 01 17:54:52 or do apt-get clean Feb 01 17:55:00 Wizzup lol Feb 01 17:55:12 /tmp has nothing to with it Feb 01 17:55:17 +do Feb 01 17:55:20 I figured, just noticed though Feb 01 17:56:08 So what *does* cause this error? Feb 01 17:56:35 hey Feb 01 17:56:44 what do i install if i want a vpnc commandline client? Feb 01 17:57:44 dpkg -L vpnc? Feb 01 17:57:57 after apt-get install vpnc? Feb 01 17:58:27 * dpro has to go Feb 01 17:58:29 ttyl Feb 01 17:59:27 me too Feb 01 17:59:29 till later Feb 01 18:05:20 what hours of the day does timeless sleep ? Feb 01 18:05:30 the ones when no one notices :) Feb 01 18:05:38 I recone you have just had a 4hrs nap Feb 01 18:05:40 vampire Feb 01 18:06:04 nope, i'm working Feb 01 18:06:14 which involves reviewing a very long powerpoint presentation Feb 01 18:06:14 do you have flextime? :-) Feb 01 18:06:22 i use it Feb 01 18:06:27 whether i have it is questionable Feb 01 18:06:45 timeless_mbp: that's the best variety Feb 01 18:07:47 you were also working at 04:57, 11:00, 12:42 Feb 01 18:08:36 which local time were you using? Feb 01 18:08:46 * timeless_mbp guesses that's british Feb 01 18:09:23 good 'ol GMT Feb 01 18:09:43 crikey, where did the time go, it's 8 o'clock Feb 01 18:10:16 no its not.. its 6 o'clock... TV news time Feb 01 18:11:23 vpnc was built without openssl: Can't do hybrid or cert mode. Feb 01 18:11:24 ? Feb 01 18:11:40 openssl seems to be a crutch to a few programs Feb 01 18:11:44 isnt git also built without it Feb 01 18:13:54 We need to get the inter-site linking together. . . . Feb 01 18:14:08 GeneralAntilles: what's wrong with it? Feb 01 18:14:21 ok, so i now have a vpnc which is totally useless Feb 01 18:14:23 why? Feb 01 18:14:23 w00t, too many people are ending up on maemo.org who don't belong there. Feb 01 18:14:31 We need to be directing them to the right place. Feb 01 18:14:38 GeneralAntilles: mm. where are they coming from? Feb 01 18:14:39 Either maemo.nokia.com or Maemo @ Forum Nokia. Feb 01 18:14:45 Google, mostly, I suspect. Feb 01 18:15:06 Basically, we need to have a couple of links on the homepage at maemo.org at a minimum. Feb 01 18:15:17 the homepage itself could use a little work I think Feb 01 18:15:28 GeneralAntilles: thx Feb 01 18:15:42 explaining what maemo (and maemo.org are) would be a very good start Feb 01 18:15:55 We need an Intro that isn't from early 2008. Feb 01 18:16:03 (yes, yes, /intro/, but that's out of date, and not the *front* page) Feb 01 18:16:27 A paragraph like what's found on the subpages: http://maemo.org/community/ Feb 01 18:16:32 GeneralAntilles: time to get back in council and whip the community into shape Feb 01 18:16:37 and I think that would improve the look. Feb 01 18:16:53 GeneralAntilles: exactly Feb 01 18:16:53 Stskeeps, what, and set myself up to be RESPONSIBLE for things again? :P Feb 01 18:17:09 * GeneralAntilles LIKES only doing things when he fscking feels like it. *g* Feb 01 18:17:16 GeneralAntilles: not feeling responsible or taking action on things seems to work for council members ;P Feb 01 18:17:25 Stskeeps, oooh. Feb 01 18:18:03 Stskeeps: *REOW* Feb 01 18:18:04 :P Feb 01 18:18:18 reow? Feb 01 18:18:19 :P Feb 01 18:18:19 Stskeeps, although another term might help ensure Nokia doesn't forget me for sponsorships and protos and such in the future. Feb 01 18:18:24 Stskeeps, catfight! Feb 01 18:18:26 Stskeeps: me making a catfight noise Feb 01 18:18:28 ^ Feb 01 18:18:31 w00t: stop acting like a furry Feb 01 18:18:33 GeneralAntilles understands me. Feb 01 18:18:44 Stskeeps, Seinfeld. ;) Feb 01 18:21:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57l9ihMrsic Feb 01 18:22:37 Seriously, lardman in the sidebar. Feb 01 18:22:43 Is this just a conspiracy or something? Feb 01 18:25:42 i really wonder about that too Feb 01 18:25:58 What sort of kicksback is he feeding X-Fade? Feb 01 18:26:07 s/kicksback/kickbacks Feb 01 18:26:07 aaa Feb 01 18:27:42 wow, a new bug was found in Marina :( Feb 01 18:28:01 wazd, did it have anything to do with the configure button on the desktop having weird icon issues? Feb 01 18:28:40 GeneralAntilles: you're like 10th person to report :P Feb 01 18:29:03 GeneralAntilles: it's not an actual bug, more like theme limitation Feb 01 18:29:29 wazd, file a Hildon bug? Feb 01 18:29:53 GeneralAntilles: that's because actual statusbar is made with 2 pieces - right "curve" and center "scalable plane" Feb 01 18:30:22 GeneralAntilles: I've made the "curve" side to have a nice black gradient Feb 01 18:30:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D3TNScbllw - on brainstorm Feb 01 18:30:45 wazd, ah, I see. Feb 01 18:31:28 GeneralAntilles: but the problem is that "configure" background doesn't use the whole "curve", only part of it. That's why gradient doesn't fit Feb 01 18:34:28 If anyone wants to test out some nethack, I have nethack-console and nethack-common. Interested in feedback to get them ready for extras-devel :) Feb 01 18:34:39 They are the maemo packages in http://www.wjsullivan.net/tmp/ Feb 01 18:35:13 at your own risk and all, but they seem to install optified and play fine on my device Feb 01 18:36:25 woo! Feb 01 18:36:38 though telnet nethack.alt.org also works well Feb 01 18:36:49 yeah, and Vulture's Eye is already available and pretty cool Feb 01 18:36:55 Really needs a fullscreen termina. Feb 01 18:36:55 but I'm a sucker for the classic Feb 01 18:37:06 I can't get on with vultures eye. Feb 01 18:37:19 It obscures the fundamental game mechanics for me. Feb 01 18:37:31 I might do the other UI's at some point too, but I ran into immediate problems with the X dependencies and I wanted the console asap Feb 01 18:38:28 I was pondering the UI. finger based 'travel' might be interesting. Feb 01 18:39:39 do you think the console should have a launcher from the menu? Feb 01 18:39:42 * SpeedEvil realises his fixed bug might actually be of use. Feb 01 18:39:59 (reported that 18/19/20 high terms crashed nethack) Feb 01 18:40:07 johnsu01: ? Feb 01 18:40:12 what do you mean. Feb 01 18:41:05 SpeedEvil: I mean, should it have an icon to launch it Feb 01 18:41:38 ah Feb 01 18:41:42 Hi, I need help about languages. How can I select a new language, after adding it with "add_remove_language add tr_TR" ? Feb 01 18:41:54 what's the *maemo_armel - and the plain armel debs? Feb 01 18:42:24 Settings > Language & region does not show, btw. Feb 01 18:42:35 SpeedEvil: the plain armel debs are non-optified Feb 01 18:42:47 SpeedEvil: you should try the maemo version Feb 01 18:43:27 the armel ones have been tested and work fine, what I just did was rebuild with optification, fixing the package version number to be standard, proper changelog Feb 01 18:43:56 ah Feb 01 18:48:37 Gawd, why did I get myself into another "You're all superior elitist assholes!" thread. . . . Feb 01 18:49:52 what, the red pill one? Feb 01 18:50:28 Stskeeps, nah the "confusing" repositories one. Feb 01 18:50:34 GeneralAntilles: link? Feb 01 18:50:42 I really think Nokia needs to pick up the slack for average user support. Feb 01 18:50:54 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=505452 Feb 01 18:51:03 ta Feb 01 18:51:06 It's boredom inducing when people keep complaining that maemo.org is complicated. Feb 01 18:51:36 and the whole Maemo/Nokia/maemo.org confusion makes all of those discussions 1000x less complicated. . . . Feb 01 18:51:44 * w00t reads 'MAEMO in the original post and cringes' Feb 01 18:51:46 er Feb 01 18:51:50 *'MAEMO' Feb 01 18:52:04 i vote we rename maemo.org to mer.org Feb 01 18:52:04 :P Feb 01 18:52:16 Stskeeps Land® Feb 01 18:52:19 hahaha. Feb 01 18:52:27 Sometimes it feels like Nokia is going down the list in http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/ and checking off boxes. Feb 01 18:52:46 oh dear, more negativity Feb 01 18:52:47 derf, things are getting better, though. Feb 01 18:52:53 anyone got maemo mapper working with yandex traffic info? Feb 01 18:53:09 derf, and they're certainly better than any OTHER maintsream mobile manufacturer. Feb 01 18:53:49 Yes. They have a community to destroy. Feb 01 18:54:16 derf: the step of making things mainstream is by getting rid of all the geeks ;p Feb 01 18:54:31 Stskeeps, shouldn't be a problem after Maemo 6. ;) Feb 01 18:54:41 timeless, ping Feb 01 18:54:44 oh yes, negative attitude within the community certainly helps with the distruction Feb 01 18:54:55 * Myrtti zones out with a cuppa tea Feb 01 18:57:32 "It's not enough to have no web site at all; in such situations, the community has an irritating habit of creating sites of its own. But a flaky site can forestall the creation of those sites, ensuring that information is hard to find. " Feb 01 18:57:35 Oh yesssss Feb 01 18:57:45 Has anyone made Quim read this? =) Feb 01 18:57:50 RST38h: maemo-developers Feb 01 18:57:55 purrfect Feb 01 18:58:04 it was the big discussion about servers Feb 01 18:58:04 :P Feb 01 18:59:09 translation question from #maemo-devel if theres any brainpower to answer it Feb 01 18:59:12 I am trying to build a translation package for Maemo 5, added .mo files to /usr/share/locale/tr_TR/LC_MESSAGES Feb 01 18:59:12 and did "add_remove_language add tr_TR" via Xterm. Feb 01 18:59:12 Its OK. But how can I select tr_TR now? It doesnt show up on Settings > Language & region" Feb 01 18:59:31 * Jaffa likes qgil's comments about MWKN, even after he accused Quim of muddying the waters Feb 01 18:59:39 johnsu01: Installed, and found /oSpM in the start room. Feb 01 19:00:11 "Community-averse corporations, Josh says, should learn from the United Nations and create lengthy, complicated processes. Keep the decision-making powers unclear; this is an effective way to turn contributors into poisonous people. Needless to say, the rules should be difficult or impossible to change. " Feb 01 19:00:21 Ah how true Feb 01 19:00:26 ty johnsu01 Feb 01 19:00:43 Jaffa, where? Feb 01 19:01:59 GeneralAntilles: Which bit? He was +ve on Twitter and I quoted him about Maemo 6 on N900 Feb 01 19:01:59 johnsu01: have you been screwing with the RNG? Stealth boots too first room :) Feb 01 19:02:15 Jaffa, saw the quote, wondering about the comments. Feb 01 19:02:20 SpeedEvil: lol, no, haven't changed anything :) Feb 01 19:02:25 pupnik: welcome! Feb 01 19:02:37 it is uncomplicated to contribute if you are not stupid Feb 01 19:03:09 GeneralAntilles: presuaambly visible under http://twitter.com/quimqil Feb 01 19:03:23 Jaffa, damnit, I hate having to pay attention to twitter. Feb 01 19:04:04 GeneralAntilles: You don't need to make a habit of it with MWKN ,) Feb 01 19:04:47 when i plug the usb cable in, for the computer, it just goes staight to charging Feb 01 19:05:30 Any idea why I get a BADSIG error with repository.maemo.org/extras? Feb 01 19:06:37 GeneralAntilles: what would be the earliest mentions about maemo.org as a community? Feb 01 19:06:42 did I miss the PDF link for the MWKN? I want to easily consume it on my "ebook reader" Feb 01 19:06:52 pronto: does the n900 show up on lsusb? Feb 01 19:06:55 Stskeeps, how do you mean? Feb 01 19:07:03 GeneralAntilles: how things got started Feb 01 19:07:07 SpeedEvil: the odd thing is, it worked yesterday Feb 01 19:07:19 Stskeeps, like, when things switched from being Nokia to community? Feb 01 19:07:31 GeneralAntilles: well, when things started moving in that direction Feb 01 19:07:41 SpeedEvil: yes it shows up Feb 01 19:07:47 Well, the new branding guidelines were posted in early 2008. Feb 01 19:07:53 So around late 2007/early 2008. Feb 01 19:08:14 Jaffa, sound right? Feb 01 19:08:25 Sounds roughly right Feb 01 19:08:37 just pondering the original intention with the community Feb 01 19:08:39 But planet's much older than that, for example Feb 01 19:08:48 Yeah, maemo.org was never particularly Nokia-oriented. Feb 01 19:08:55 And the mailing lists date back to 2005 Feb 01 19:09:09 (apart from -community, of course) Feb 01 19:09:11 * GeneralAntilles remembers the giant application wiki page fondly. Feb 01 19:09:19 * Jaffa shudders Feb 01 19:09:22 Ehehe Feb 01 19:09:38 Could've been worse: what about the "apps wanted" page Feb 01 19:09:38 Jaffa, but it was so fun loading it up every week or so and hunting for new screenshots. :P Feb 01 19:09:42 Ha Feb 01 19:09:42 Right Feb 01 19:10:01 And people claim the Maemo community's become less technical ;) Feb 01 19:10:24 GeneralAntilles: didn't you use my Application_Catalog RSS feed?! :-p Feb 01 19:11:02 Jaffa, I've never been able to get myself to use RSS. Feb 01 19:11:04 the maemo "community" has changed, from pretty much everyone knowing everyone, like in a commune, to being more like a town or city. you can walk out of your door and see different people you dont know Feb 01 19:11:28 t-tan, ping Feb 01 19:11:48 odin_: pong Feb 01 19:12:02 lcuk, no more free love! You pay! Feb 01 19:12:09 lcuk: largely true, but there's always been a large silent group who just get on with shit. Feb 01 19:12:22 indeed jaffa Feb 01 19:12:24 t-tan, I have a debhelper5 patch for scratchbox, adding --prefix (just a little more checking/testing to do on it) Feb 01 19:12:26 GeneralAntilles, i always paid! Feb 01 19:12:30 GeneralAntilles: five dorrar Feb 01 19:12:36 lcuk: with blood! Feb 01 19:12:59 odin_: cool! where can I download it? Feb 01 19:13:02 thats just pointing out the obvious lol Feb 01 19:13:11 * Jaffa reckons we'll know when the NX01 is nearing release as lcuk'll lose another finger Feb 01 19:13:21 Haha Feb 01 19:13:22 Jaffa, is there a PDF version of MWKN? Feb 01 19:13:46 jaffa, push n900 party, thursday night london centre, theres tix available for yourself and anidel if you like Feb 01 19:13:47 mikhas: Not yet, I'm afraid. But single HTML and PDF downloads are planned Feb 01 19:13:48 hahahahahaha Feb 01 19:13:53 cool Feb 01 19:14:00 no fudging way, i have a keyfob now Feb 01 19:14:07 single HTML would suffice, aye Feb 01 19:14:15 had* Feb 01 19:14:18 lcuk: ah cool, I'll ask the missus for a pass Feb 01 19:14:37 lcuk: will let you know. would be good. Feb 01 19:14:37 i am having transport problems, but if i can be there i will Feb 01 19:14:44 you are on the guest list tho Feb 01 19:14:56 t-tan, please take a look, this is a beta and still needs checking over from someone who knows better than me: http://www.darrylmiles.org/temp/maemo/debhelper-5.0.42.20100131.dlm.diff Feb 01 19:15:27 * lcuk is going to fosdem the next day Feb 01 19:15:33 anything similar to the spotify for maemo. Something non-flash :P Feb 01 19:15:44 ? Feb 01 19:17:08 t-tan, if you use dpkg-buildpackage is fails the unit-tests (you have to install the changes manually over /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/ and then re-run dpkg-buildpackage (the self hosting ./run script is broken inside scratchbox :( ) Feb 01 19:17:24 there are spotify clients if thats what you are after Feb 01 19:18:30 odin_: that could make optification much simpler, yes? Feb 01 19:18:44 odin_: thanks. looks good, similiar to what I had planned. I'd add a DH_PREFIX env.var which overwrites the prefix for all dh_ commands Feb 01 19:19:13 odin_: would you mind updating it for debhelper7? debhelper5 is dead Feb 01 19:19:41 pupnik, yes the patch is to improve the process, as some stuff still ends up in /usr/share/... and such, you just need to set in debian/rules: export DH_OPTIONS=--prefix=/usr/local Feb 01 19:19:41 not on maemo Feb 01 19:19:42 :P Feb 01 19:20:01 t-tan, yes that was my next chore, when I am happy its good, work with current debhelper version Feb 01 19:20:27 * lcuk giggles @ Stskeeps Feb 01 19:20:29 lcuk: excellent, should I let you know or email someone else? (Actually, whereabouts in London is it?) Feb 01 19:20:31 frals: yes, but they require premium account Feb 01 19:21:02 odin_: oh, right. DH_OPTION is a better option :) the debhelper7 testsuite works Feb 01 19:21:12 jaffa, ill send a mail to all 3 of us, for some reason i thought you were already included Feb 01 19:21:20 yes, afaik only the official "desktop" version can be run without a premium acc Feb 01 19:22:58 t-tan, actually I need to check for --prefix=/usr/local return "usr/local" no leading or trailing slashes (just to make it work as expected for users, just in case a trailing slash is important to something, needs to canonizalise the path to "usr/local" Feb 01 19:23:09 I hope we can someday get true optification, i.e everything is under /opt/package and relevant files are linked in /opt/maemo/* Feb 01 19:23:39 hello Feb 01 19:23:52 t-tan, I think flash price/size will get better, so 1Gb is not a problem in 2 years time Feb 01 19:24:13 today I selled my TP2, totally sick of WinMo Feb 01 19:24:17 niw the good news Feb 01 19:24:32 Tomorrow, I have my new N900 Feb 01 19:24:36 t-tan, but still needs to make package management scalable but work with anticipated rootfs size increases with time Feb 01 19:24:43 so now my question Feb 01 19:25:03 odin_: it's not only about space (and I want to use my N900 now) but about good design Feb 01 19:25:04 I have a Windows Mobile PIM file, created with PIM backup Feb 01 19:25:09 timeless: is browser using libjpeg to load jpegs? Feb 01 19:25:16 how I can import this in Maemo? Feb 01 19:25:25 Google don't find anything Feb 01 19:25:33 it's probably using gecko's libjpeg... Feb 01 19:25:44 about:buildconfig should say Feb 01 19:25:50 * timeless_mbp is @dinner Feb 01 19:25:56 ah, well, we just added neon code to encoding and decodings. Feb 01 19:26:05 anybody? Feb 01 19:26:09 it improves jpeg load times 2x Feb 01 19:26:14 given that i don't trust your team not to introduce security vulnerabilities Feb 01 19:26:28 about:buildconfig says --with-system-jpeg Feb 01 19:26:36 great! Feb 01 19:26:38 which means you've probably just added 10 security vulnerabilities Feb 01 19:26:47 lol! Should be fun then Feb 01 19:26:54 please send a memo to avs Feb 01 19:27:00 timeless_mbp, we don't want Maemo to be boring. Feb 01 19:27:01 odin_: Nokia would merely need to add /opt/maemo to the search paths for bin, lib, man, icons, apps etc Feb 01 19:27:02 who is avs? Feb 01 19:27:07 /whois =b Feb 01 19:27:25 someone pls listen to t-tan Feb 01 19:27:30 konttori: please keep in mind that the browser gets png/bmp/pcx/gif marked as jpeg Feb 01 19:27:37 t-tan: and pkg-config and so on.. Feb 01 19:27:39 and it also gets and expects to render incomplete files Feb 01 19:27:44 oh, that guy. Sure, will do. I have other matter I need to discuss with him anyway Feb 01 19:27:48 t-tan: the list is very long Feb 01 19:28:27 timeless_mbp: the code segments are very clear parts of the decoding (and encoding process). Feb 01 19:28:38 Sef24, the way you import contacts with the N900 are vcards Feb 01 19:28:49 Also, the code was ported from upstream for the most part by serge. Feb 01 19:28:51 Stskeeps: i don't think so. most of it can already be done by modifying /etc/profile or osso-startup Feb 01 19:28:56 ok Feb 01 19:28:58 Look Feb 01 19:29:06 anyway, the gain is significant. Feb 01 19:29:08 oh, this is a backport? Feb 01 19:29:08 I don't have a windows phone anymore Feb 01 19:29:14 so I guess you'd need a tool to convert your PIM backup to vcards, or have an exchange server nearby? Feb 01 19:29:18 timeless_mbp: for a part, yes Feb 01 19:29:22 but not entirely Feb 01 19:29:27 I have a WinMo Emulator Feb 01 19:29:42 can I de backup it on there Feb 01 19:29:57 and dump it in vcards? Feb 01 19:31:21 Sef24, try http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32908 Feb 01 19:31:59 keywords: active sync, outlook, exchange, nokia pc suite Feb 01 19:32:06 hope that helps Feb 01 19:32:46 t-tan, yes... I am trying to isolate the issues, but I think some people at Nokia think that optified package should be compiled with --prefix=/usr and I think that is incorrect, they should all be --prefix=/usr/local and its the /usr/local tree that gets the symlinks (this leave the main rootfs largely unchanged, and so less issue with NSU/SSO) Feb 01 19:32:53 I don't have Outlook or Exchange nearby Feb 01 19:33:03 only a PIM backup .PIM file Feb 01 19:33:17 I can extract it on a winmo emulator Feb 01 19:33:28 then I only need a way to dump it in vCards Feb 01 19:33:30 konttori: BTW, is the reason you optify things inside /usr/share/themes/ and not the folder itself, due to a bug in the theme chooser? Feb 01 19:33:34 timeless_mbp: the parts of neon optimizations are not touching the envelope handling any way, so there is no change to the "png/bmp/pcx/gif marked as jpeg" Feb 01 19:33:49 Stskeeps: yes Feb 01 19:33:59 konttori: ok, but what about the malformed jpeg? :) Feb 01 19:34:02 odin_: fully agreed. but why /usr/local and not /opt? Feb 01 19:34:17 timeless_mbp: should work exactly the same as previously. Just faster Feb 01 19:34:18 btw, i'm not sure jpeg's are that common on the web anyway Feb 01 19:34:20 konttori: alright, we ran into it when running maemo-optify - thanks for telling me Feb 01 19:34:46 t-tan, /usr/local is the traditional place to have a fill unix like tree, like /usr/local/etc /usr/local/bin /usr/local/share /usr/local/lib Feb 01 19:35:03 timeless_mbp: Interesting opinion. I would assume most of the bigger graphic elements are jpegs in sites. Feb 01 19:35:23 t-tan, where as /opt is the traditional place to put /opt/AdobeAcrobat9.2/ and /opt/SunJvm1.6u18 (large things that standalone and do not conform to Unix like filesystem layouts) Feb 01 19:35:24 odin_: according to LSB /usr/local is for stuff not maintained by pkg management. Feb 01 19:35:29 not if they want transparency Feb 01 19:35:40 Stskeeps: yeah, definitely, you should optify themes with optifying all subfolders the the themefolder itself Feb 01 19:35:59 timeless_mbp: yes, not if they need transparency, as most content does not. Feb 01 19:36:03 looks like the pictures on youtube are .jpg Feb 01 19:36:24 t-tan, then according to LSB we should package all the optified stuff and symlink from /usr/bin/foo (since that falls under package management) Feb 01 19:37:44 timeless_mbp: I just took random site that I visit: http://www.joystiq.com/ -> most of the image content is jpeg. Feb 01 19:38:00 (used web developer extension, page info to find out9 Feb 01 19:38:09 timeless, are you joking about those jpegs? Feb 01 19:38:24 i sense a bit of sarcasm Feb 01 19:38:48 odin_: there is apparently no consensus, but have look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard Feb 01 19:38:49 At the moment the partition table for the internal card is a 27gb ext3 partition, then a 2gb fat partition and 700mb swap, would there be any problem is shrinking the fat to 1gb, and expanding the swap to 1.7gb and the obviously reformatting the fat partition? Feb 01 19:39:08 ? Feb 01 19:39:31 konttori, a lot of site graphics are pngs and gifs, a lot of site content is jpeg Feb 01 19:39:37 bigger swap won't help Feb 01 19:39:50 by the time you're 768m deep in swap - you're almost certainly dead Feb 01 19:40:07 jophish, swap EXT3 and FAT there . . . . Feb 01 19:40:12 http://s.ytimg.com/yt/img/master-vfl141814.png Feb 01 19:40:19 ok, thanks Feb 01 19:40:23 the youtube graphic is actually a tile thingy Feb 01 19:40:25 what do you mean GeneralAntilles Feb 01 19:40:28 GeneralAntilles: not here :) Feb 01 19:40:29 so it's one file w/ all the youtube art Feb 01 19:40:39 the rest of the stuff is "content" as lcuk categorized it Feb 01 19:40:40 SpeedEvil: agree Feb 01 19:40:51 timeless_mbp, now try to find some photos in png Feb 01 19:40:52 t-tan, the 27GB is FAT, the 2GB is EXT3. Feb 01 19:40:59 I ahve swapped them around Feb 01 19:41:07 Ah, I see. Feb 01 19:41:07 Well Feb 01 19:41:14 really, I would like to get rid of the blasted fat fs totally Feb 01 19:41:15 jophish, 1.7gb of SWAP ? for a mobile device? Feb 01 19:41:19 GeneralAntilles: I swapped them too Feb 01 19:41:28 jophish, some stuff may break. Feb 01 19:41:30 lcuk: timeless_mbp: yes, that's a fair generalization (what lcuk said) Feb 01 19:41:33 jophish, really not worth worrying about. Feb 01 19:41:39 odin_, well, I thought it might be better than 1gb of wasted fat space Feb 01 19:41:55 jophish: we have thread/brainstorm for that http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37869 Feb 01 19:41:56 wolf^: well, the question is how much 'content' do people encounter v. 'chrome' Feb 01 19:42:07 yeah, been reading that a bit t-tan Feb 01 19:42:12 konttori, your original point though, optimizations. they are really noticable? Feb 01 19:42:29 timeless_mbp, I think amount of png content is insignificant, when compared to jpegs Feb 01 19:42:51 jophish, if I were you, I'd worry about your partition layout after you have, 1) filled your 2Gb ext3 filesystem, 2) explored the used of the microSD port for mounting 16Gb cards that you can wear out and replace and also partition how you want Feb 01 19:43:37 lcuk: look at the statistics on the internal bugzilla. Feb 01 19:43:58 the encoding speed is near to DSP capability after those optimizations Feb 01 19:44:05 yeah ive read it, i just havent had a chance to reflash and try em Feb 01 19:44:10 odin_, I was planning on symlinking some things like /var/ and /usr/ to the internal card Feb 01 19:44:12 should be pretty darn visible in image viewers thumbnail view Feb 01 19:44:19 running out of space on / Feb 01 19:44:22 wolf^: load about:cache?device=memory Feb 01 19:44:24 * lcuk msiles heartily Feb 01 19:44:26 smiles Feb 01 19:44:27 which is loading jpegs like mad. Feb 01 19:44:32 in my gecko, i have way more .png files than i have .jpg flies Feb 01 19:44:35 s/flies/files/ Feb 01 19:44:36 odin_: if you sync with a POSIX file system on your desktop, your home is filled very soon... Feb 01 19:44:57 timeless_mbp: probably also depends on sites you visit Feb 01 19:45:14 konttori: certainly Feb 01 19:45:15 t-tan, what are you syncing ? I can understand content? but what in /home ? Feb 01 19:45:21 i dont think ive ever seen png porn Feb 01 19:45:32 so the issue is the usage of maemo libjpeg6b vs gecko libjpeg? Feb 01 19:45:58 lcuk: you mean you've never seen people compose pr0n out of two otherwise innocent images? :) Feb 01 19:46:13 konttori, harryf was also talking about some optimization hes making to tables in qt, for a small compromise you can get much faster rendering of them :) Feb 01 19:46:15 odin_, all of my stuff on my desktop is in home /home/images /home/documents Feb 01 19:46:18 and N900 and an IPhone (p0rn!) Feb 01 19:46:19 timeless_mbp: I have 3k .jpg in my cache, 2k png, 2k gif Feb 01 19:46:22 timeless_mbp, I don't see the content I have loaded on that page Feb 01 19:46:29 timeless, sure, but fakes are normally helped by a bit of jpeg artifacts Feb 01 19:46:29 (fyi) Feb 01 19:46:31 not in the silly Mydocs folder Feb 01 19:46:54 Stskeeps: check about:buildconfig Feb 01 19:47:05 at least the build i'm using says --with-system-jpeg Feb 01 19:47:06 odin_: scripts, symlinks, documents, music etc Feb 01 19:47:07 timeless_mbp: yes, system jpeg Feb 01 19:47:10 which means we aren't build the gecko one Feb 01 19:47:24 timeless_mbp: i'm just wondering what the issue is, security issues in libjpeg? Feb 01 19:47:35 konttori: this also means you're on hook for any security issues either from your changes Feb 01 19:47:40 jophish, okay I'm not into this syncing of $HOME data (my $HOME has a 66 Gb partition for it and I'm the only user, 50% full mind!) Feb 01 19:47:43 or from mainline which happen to need fixing Feb 01 19:47:46 Stskeeps, history of image formats having security vulns Feb 01 19:47:59 or rather, parsers thereof Feb 01 19:48:09 lcuk: well, yes Feb 01 19:48:20 timeless_mbp: isn't that the way it always is? Feb 01 19:48:43 konttori: most of the time people don't seem to take any responsibility Feb 01 19:48:47 so, 'no' Feb 01 19:48:55 what i mean, is that i hold you personally responsible :) Feb 01 19:48:56 lcuk: sounds interesting. Provided that he feels those are usually acceptable compromises. He should know Feb 01 19:49:14 odin_: it's just much cleaner. I know that I'll hardly ever need a FAT fs - so why keep it Feb 01 19:49:35 konttori, if its an optimization pathway that could be identified when filling a table and used in specific case then its a real win Feb 01 19:49:43 timeless_mbp: well, hold me or don't. I haven't coded the part and I am not in position to evaluate it. As far as I know, it should not raise any new security issues. Feb 01 19:49:44 odin_, what would you (or anyone else) recommend symlinking out of / to /home. /var/cache seems like a good example Feb 01 19:49:53 that's as far as I go. Feb 01 19:50:03 konttori: as long as if any are found you help get a fix delivered Feb 01 19:50:11 i'm not going to hold you to personally fix it Feb 01 19:50:18 lcuk: so, sounds like it's not affecting the other cases then at all. Feb 01 19:50:30 but you will either get it fixed and delivered or let us revert the optimization / upgrade to unoptimized and deliver something Feb 01 19:50:34 t-tan: such solutions cannot be mainstreamed Feb 01 19:50:40 timeless_mbp: I'll have guys in there until fremantle maintenance is stopped. Feb 01 19:50:45 jophish: my restore scripts automatically moves: usr/share/icons usr/share/nokia-maps usr/share/themes usr/share/fonts usr/share/locale usr/lib/locale var/lib/apt Feb 01 19:50:52 and I would assume those fixes also go to harmattan pretty quickly Feb 01 19:50:59 konttori: getting fixes internally isn't the same as delivering them Feb 01 19:50:59 konttori, i dont know if hes finished it, it was just a brief conversation i saw from him earlier that made me smile Feb 01 19:51:09 * w00t raises an eyebrow Feb 01 19:51:15 (or perhaps we just hold on a bit more and later 'fix performance issues' like magic Feb 01 19:51:32 t-tan, sounds good. I'm interested in this restore script too, care to elaborate? Feb 01 19:51:36 lcuk: what's a "Table in Qt" ? Feb 01 19:52:42 pupnik: it is possible. if you have a FAT loopfile and dm_loop module, there should be no need for partitions and no speed issues Feb 01 19:52:42 a gridview i assume, since he talks about transparent cell rendering and such Feb 01 19:53:16 ah, the n900 is on slashdot again today. Feb 01 19:53:30 t-tan, hmmm.. can we have ext3 partition and loop a FAT/VFAT image of it for USB ? Feb 01 19:53:30 my n900 goes on slashdot every day Feb 01 19:53:36 lol! Feb 01 19:53:39 ahh ty t-tan .. so vfat would still exist for pc-suite users? Feb 01 19:53:51 I wonder whether you couldn't create a vfat plugin for fuse Feb 01 19:54:07 jophish: I'll upload it someday. basically it's a script I run after every reflash to restore my /etc modications, apps and FS hierarchy Feb 01 19:54:15 and then just expose the underlying ext3 file system as a vfat with fuse, when you want usb mass storage Feb 01 19:54:15 I can't believe the N900 made /. with freaking PearPC. Feb 01 19:54:17 WHO CARES?! Feb 01 19:54:25 Hi Feb 01 19:54:25 GeneralAntilles: geeks who smell like dead cheese Feb 01 19:54:37 odin_, pupnik: yes, that's the solutions I have implemented. works fine Feb 01 19:54:43 How should i import music to my phone, i did import over 10gb music to .sounds folder Feb 01 19:54:48 but they doesnt seem to be on mediaplayer Feb 01 19:54:49 GeneralAntilles: oh, on Engadget it even made it to the non-apple feed. Feb 01 19:55:01 greenfly, all you need to do is track the block allocations, that can be done with a backing store file Feb 01 19:55:03 I mean, vfat features (at least from the perspective of the user) are a subset of ext3 anyway Feb 01 19:55:17 no permisions, etc. Feb 01 19:55:18 pupnik: AFAIK you could even export multiple loop files, e.g. a FAT and a ext3 Feb 01 19:55:20 greenfly, indeed Feb 01 19:55:28 greenfly: it makes no sense Feb 01 19:55:48 iPeter-: Just copy the music somewhere. Can be that .sounds isn't indexed for the media player. Feb 01 19:55:49 greenfly: you'd need a block device emulator, not a filesystem in user space Feb 01 19:55:52 GeneralAntilles: to be fair, any publicity is good publicity Feb 01 19:55:53 javispedro: I meant to ask that are you using the compositor zooming or not? Feb 01 19:56:00 (in drnoksnes) Feb 01 19:56:02 javispedro, you can expose a % of your overall volume via USB and a sub-tree somewhere Feb 01 19:56:14 w00t, very much agreed, I just find it bizarre that it should be this generating the publicity. Feb 01 19:56:22 w00t, and not the fact that the N900 is the freaking N900. ;) Feb 01 19:56:22 agreed Feb 01 19:56:28 especially when it took 2 hours to actually do anything Feb 01 19:56:33 javispedro: you don't think that's achievable with fuse? Feb 01 19:56:34 Which should be directly up the alley of every person on /. Feb 01 19:56:35 konttori: current on -devel is using remote-texture when you select full screen in options dialog, current on git uses animation-actor through a SDL wrapper Feb 01 19:56:41 greenfly: WinDOS expects a stupid block device Feb 01 19:56:48 javispedro, why block device emulation ? what is that ? a block device is nothing more than a I/O endpoint servicing requests, what you needs is a FAT emulation and just control is via block allocation Feb 01 19:57:13 konttori: so, yes :) Feb 01 19:57:15 if you want higher-level access, use CIFS,NFS, sshfs etc Feb 01 19:57:17 GeneralAntilles: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1532544&no_d2=1&cid=30984582 Feb 01 19:57:18 t-tan, would you be able to put this script on pastebin or something, If is's not too much trouble Feb 01 19:57:43 javispedro: so, in the end it is faster than doing it in code? Feb 01 19:57:49 (with scaler algo) Feb 01 19:58:04 jophish: so far it + the other files contain personal stuff or very device specific things. Feb 01 19:58:43 konttori: it was not faster than a 2x scaler in assembly with the window uncomposited Feb 01 19:58:49 depends on integer 2x scale vs non-int, yes? Feb 01 19:58:56 timeless_mbp, Nokia really needs to work on their advertising. Feb 01 19:58:56 mwah Feb 01 19:59:00 Stuff like this is one thing that I like in Maemo 5. Feb 01 19:59:24 Application installations failed (had to create /home/opt), then thought that the App Manager should really have a log view or something. Feb 01 19:59:30 And then I naturally noticed that it does. ;p Feb 01 19:59:35 konttori: it's faster in composited mode, and my guess is that it will be faster than non simple ratio scalers (didn't try) Feb 01 19:59:40 javispedro, host via USB reads in FAT, decides to allocate a block, writes out change; linux monitors this change and what it has been associated against, the other area is monitoring of directory structure activity and inode to cluster-number translation Feb 01 20:00:17 GeneralAntilles: nokia does advertising? where? Feb 01 20:00:23 london tube? Feb 01 20:00:26 odin_: the scsi protocol does not include "allocate a block" in its command set. Feb 01 20:00:37 javispedro, what has SCSI protocol got to do with it Feb 01 20:00:43 odin_: a lot Feb 01 20:00:49 javispedro, the emulated FAT is at a fixed address into the logical device Feb 01 20:00:53 range: It seems it didnt update it so quickly, now they are there. Thanks anyway. Feb 01 20:00:57 odin_: we're talking about USB Mass Storage here don't we? Feb 01 20:01:12 javispedro, a write to that logic storage range means we're editing the emulated FAT Feb 01 20:01:35 javispedro, the SCSI protocol is just the device driver command/data transport, nothing to do with FAT emulation Feb 01 20:01:36 javispedro: thanks. Good to know. And yeah, I also assumed proper 2x scaler would be faster, but that's something that really cannot be used on our device, as nothing is exactly 2x. Feb 01 20:02:04 odin_: so much effort for what? why not just install Samba over USBnet? Feb 01 20:02:07 javispedro, the transport should be just as well a process using open()/close()/read()/lseek()/write() or SATA or anything Feb 01 20:02:25 odin_: yes, but you assume the "host allocates a block" like if it was such a simple thing to detect Feb 01 20:03:11 t-tan, to keep the partition on the device a super-set and retain Linux unix permisstions/ACL/xattrs etc... you don't have to share your entire 32Gb eMMC, you might want to only make 8Gb visible (via quotas) Feb 01 20:03:26 odin_: you've never read a SSD firmware, and never experienced the issues they experience when the fw, used to the windows fastfat driver behaviour suddenly is replaced by the linux's vfat behavior. Feb 01 20:03:47 s/suddenly/which is suddenly Feb 01 20:03:59 javispedro: have you? Feb 01 20:04:03 javispedro, block allocation is simple to detect, if the write is heading for an unallocated block we know its new data, the only issue is out-of-order matters (since you can not control the order the implemntation manipulated the logical device) Feb 01 20:04:24 wazd, seriously, Marina's quite tasty. Feb 01 20:04:30 timeless_mbp, try it yet? Feb 01 20:04:40 GeneralAntilles: marina? Feb 01 20:04:43 Yeah Feb 01 20:05:21 and can somebody PLEASE give me some input here? http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/57839 Feb 01 20:05:21 t-tan: odin_: I tried to do this to support writes to builtin Palm T|X drive through Mass Storage. And it is a engineering nightmare. Feb 01 20:05:28 javispedro, think of it like a load of open transactions but at some point the the picture will become clear Feb 01 20:05:37 (preferably on -community so it'll stimulate some discussion) Feb 01 20:05:49 ok, no worries. thanks anyway t-tan Feb 01 20:05:56 is it in extras or do i need testing? Feb 01 20:06:07 timeless_mbp, should be in -testing. Feb 01 20:06:09 odin_, javispedro: a read only solution should be easy Feb 01 20:06:26 javispedro, you can quickly detect writes to: superblock, FAT1, FAT2, directory, existing file, new data block (on a request by request basis) Feb 01 20:06:27 t-tan: a both sides read-only solution, yes. Feb 01 20:06:38 t-tan: if you factor in writes are coming from the ext3 side, it's not easy any longer Feb 01 20:06:46 t-tan: it's a suicide Feb 01 20:07:21 odin_: again, please grab a dump of the access patterns of the windows fastfat driver. you'd be surprised. Feb 01 20:07:36 i don't see it in testing Feb 01 20:07:40 maybe it's installed? :) Feb 01 20:07:41 write's can't come from ext3, by definition the host expects it to have exclusive access to the filesystem Feb 01 20:07:53 timeless_mbp, or possibly -devel, not sure. Feb 01 20:08:24 javispedro: correct. you'd have to lock all exported files Feb 01 20:08:47 GeneralAntilles: what input do you need? Feb 01 20:08:58 US-based people, there's a cool linux-based gadget for cheap only today http://www.woot.com/ Feb 01 20:09:09 the existing mechanism must already have a stratagy for merging changes by N900 and changes over USB, but I'm saying you can control kernel block allocation (and availability to never error) Feb 01 20:09:46 so basically you're going to present two diferent filesystem to both sides? Feb 01 20:09:47 If I wanted to have /var/cache symlinked to /home/var/cache what would be the best way of doing this, so that it works over a reboot Feb 01 20:10:33 jophish: should be no problem - it is preserved over reboots Feb 01 20:10:37 javispedro, well the FAT version is 100% emulated, it doesn't exist as FAT, but the FAT layout and design is used as the communication mechnism Feb 01 20:11:00 thanks t-tan Feb 01 20:11:17 konttori, anything, really. Feb 01 20:11:24 konttori, particularly stuff about the specific metrics, though. Feb 01 20:11:26 iirc qemu does fat-emulation Feb 01 20:11:30 that the idea of statistics is nice? Feb 01 20:11:55 konttori, mostly about the specifics of said statistics. Feb 01 20:12:10 Well, one interesting metric would be votes killed (so bug X has 20 bugs, it's resolved -> 20 votes killed) per month per component? Feb 01 20:12:13 konttori, input on how to get qualitative answers from the data, etc. Feb 01 20:12:50 and that compared to open votes for that component. Feb 01 20:13:16 that gives a nice metric of speed a component is fixing serious issues. Feb 01 20:13:27 or that it's not Feb 01 20:13:49 The 3 samples I put in the email were weirdly consistent. Feb 01 20:13:58 konttori: what to do about votes on wontfix bugs Feb 01 20:14:00 GeneralAntilles: well, thanks again, glad you enjoy it :) Feb 01 20:14:10 there's a bug asking the browser bookmarks menu to match the browser menu Feb 01 20:14:22 the ui team doesn't like making things consistent, so the bug's wontfix Feb 01 20:14:30 timeless - interesting choice. I suppose they remain as if they were actual bugs. Feb 01 20:14:32 * timeless_mbp would actually not mind having the menu items present Feb 01 20:14:40 the problem though Feb 01 20:14:48 is that a bug can potentially have 100 voters Feb 01 20:14:51 timeless_mbp, provide commentary about how much we hate UI people and a management? :P Feb 01 20:14:52 and be wontfix Feb 01 20:14:53 Invalid is a different resolution and then they should be treated as if they never existed Feb 01 20:15:24 wazd moo Feb 01 20:15:27 GeneralAntilles: actually, most of the ui people ceased to exist as of today Feb 01 20:15:28 But, really, stupid stuff that ends up on Talk and gets 50 votes but is WONTFIX because it's stupid skews stuff. Feb 01 20:15:31 timeless_mbp: doesn't that still mean that that issue was something that 100 people wanted fixed and it's still not fixed? Feb 01 20:15:31 so we now hate ghosts Feb 01 20:16:18 perhaps the wontfix statistics should only affect that single month but not subsequent? Feb 01 20:16:53 i could live w/ that Feb 01 20:16:59 As far as grading goes, Feb 01 20:17:23 I'm mostly interested in getting people from those products involved in Bugzilla. Feb 01 20:17:42 we just had someone do an internal review Feb 01 20:17:52 and about the only positive mark was general involvement in the internal bugzilla Feb 01 20:18:03 So whether stuff is being looked at and responded to by @Nokia (and @Nokia contractor) persons. Feb 01 20:18:05 we have a bunch of other tools which got very high NEGATIVE marks Feb 01 20:18:31 nothing should break if I just use a small FAT loop file on a large ext3 partition as /home/user/Mydocs? Feb 01 20:18:46 going to get rid of the fat partition completly Feb 01 20:18:49 jophish: very funny Feb 01 20:19:03 that won't make usb mass storage magically work Feb 01 20:19:14 oh, and fix that too Feb 01 20:19:26 i'm not sure if camera will work Feb 01 20:19:36 i didn't spend enough time figuring out what the heck it was doing Feb 01 20:19:40 I'd like to encourage higher "positive" resolution rates, but the number of factors involved in that makes trying to make those numbers useful more difficult. Feb 01 20:20:25 timeless, I believe that the camera can output to ext3 now Feb 01 20:20:51 It'd be easier if people were more careful about actually picking up bugs. Feb 01 20:20:52 may work if you point /dev/blkthing1 to loop0 but that probably won't last past a reboot Feb 01 20:21:07 If somebody says they're working on something, then they need to mark it ASSIGNED. . . . Feb 01 20:21:27 I think stock boot expects 3rd part tol be fat. dunno what size Feb 01 20:21:28 changing /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh Feb 01 20:21:42 the third partition is swap Feb 01 20:21:45 ah Feb 01 20:21:48 first is fat by default Feb 01 20:21:51 k Feb 01 20:22:28 anyway I know ruskie had to flash his a few times playing Feb 01 20:23:29 * ifreq tryes to crosscompile some games for maemo Feb 01 20:23:34 a few lol Feb 01 20:23:57 you could linear concat raid several 4GB blocks on the fat to make large ext2/3 part Feb 01 20:24:09 5 days straight when I got it, probably once every 4-5 hours Feb 01 20:25:01 ruskie, Thanks for your efforts Feb 01 20:25:16 mind if I explain what I'm going to do? Feb 01 20:25:18 jophish: I've uploaded an edited version of my restore script http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner (untested) Feb 01 20:25:21 it's dos style partition despite being completely different architecture? Feb 01 20:25:24 oh thanks t-tan Feb 01 20:25:44 you might be able to shrink fat and make p4 out of the space after kit Feb 01 20:25:46 it Feb 01 20:25:49 Damion2, just how data is stored on the partition Feb 01 20:25:53 jophish, sure thing Feb 01 20:26:59 ruskie: yes, but it's based on old BIOS things like having an active boot flag and pointless 512bytes at the start Feb 01 20:27:43 On the internal flash, one large ext3 partition and the 700mb swap. a bunch of things from /usr symlinked to dirs on the ext3 partition. And a small FAT loop in /home/user Feb 01 20:28:17 scripts I have to update are, the mass storage ones, and /etc/event.d/rcS-late Feb 01 20:30:04 jo Feb 01 20:30:11 ~seen javispedro Feb 01 20:30:15 javispedro <~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20m 29s ago, saying: 'so basically you're going to present two diferent filesystem to both sides?'. Feb 01 20:30:43 * asj_ waves good morning to everyone Feb 01 20:30:54 *g* Feb 01 20:31:02 its nearly time to go to bed Feb 01 20:31:26 goodnight Feb 01 20:31:30 johnsu01: looks like nethack needs a symlink or shellscript in /usr/bin Feb 01 20:31:47 he pupnik Feb 01 20:32:41 I wonder if the kernel would panic if a r/o fat mount changed underneath it Feb 01 20:33:30 Damion2, why should it panic ? Feb 01 20:33:33 if I r/o mount MyDocs after it's exported to my ps3 Feb 01 20:33:49 then videos saved to it could be rsynced to my nas Feb 01 20:34:03 pupnik: Yeah, not sure what to do about that -- the issue is /usr/games not being in the default $PATH which I believe is also true on typical gnu/linux systems Feb 01 20:34:17 odin_: it'll be changing at the block layer beyond what it's expecting Feb 01 20:34:21 hm debian has it Feb 01 20:34:23 accessing a block device concurrently by filesystems is a reciepe for desaster Feb 01 20:34:39 breakage guaranteed Feb 01 20:34:53 cehteh: the mount would be ro :) Feb 01 20:35:02 still Feb 01 20:35:22 I have an EyeFi which does it Feb 01 20:35:26 woglinde: it does? Feb 01 20:35:28 r/o still means the kernel caches vital datastructures in ram Feb 01 20:35:41 johnsu01 /usr/games in path Feb 01 20:35:48 yes that was my q about likelihood for panics Feb 01 20:35:50 if these get changed unexpected then it will break Feb 01 20:35:51 johnsu01: yeah, and how to make that change so that it works for autobuilder? don't ask me Feb 01 20:35:51 woglinde: my install doesn't seem to... Feb 01 20:35:57 Damion2: dont do that Feb 01 20:36:00 /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games Feb 01 20:36:27 woglinde: is that defined somewhere other than /etc/skel? Feb 01 20:36:44 cehteh: maybe detect activity in the usb exported storage daemon and umount, then remount for rsync when the ps3 settles down Feb 01 20:37:02 wow, it's awesome that mmpc pauses my stereo when the phone rings Feb 01 20:37:17 Damion2: mounted device will not be exported, usb-storage connected device can not be mounted Feb 01 20:37:26 zsh/zshenv: export PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/games" Feb 01 20:37:35 ah zsh :) Feb 01 20:37:38 unless you circumvent that somehow .. but then you really shoot in your own foot Feb 01 20:37:41 same for bash Feb 01 20:37:57 hm or not Feb 01 20:38:14 Damion2: you can use mtools to access a fat block device without mounting it, that should be safe Feb 01 20:38:19 woglinde: yeah, I don't think so, I've had this in my .bashrc for a long time Feb 01 20:38:35 login.defs:ENV_PATH PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games Feb 01 20:39:24 cehteh: ahh yes mixed with fuse it could seem to be mounted Feb 01 20:39:30 ruskie, replacing the partition table with this: http://pastebin.com/m3248f90b Feb 01 20:39:46 not so sure about p2 there though Feb 01 20:39:48 cehteh: unmounted device can be presented at the client usbstorage Feb 01 20:39:56 Damion2: soem fuse-mounting might work too *if* you explicitly turn off all caching Feb 01 20:40:02 and there's the 'fun' with our debhelper that doesn't seem to accept alternate destination prefixes. see odin_ Feb 01 20:40:07 cehteh: on both sides Feb 01 20:40:17 cehteh: I'd write that part myself Feb 01 20:40:22 at some point using smb/cifs or nfs becomes more sensible.. Feb 01 20:40:38 yes but libfuse caches some things internally iirc you have to turn that off Feb 01 20:40:45 at no point is nfs sensible for a wlan connection Feb 01 20:40:51 pupnik? Feb 01 20:41:27 cehteh: ps3 mounts the block dev from my phone. I monitor load / data in/out on the block and mount r/o to run a quick rsync before umount Feb 01 20:41:31 well, from a security point of view, only all_squash nfs is "safe". Feb 01 20:41:32 woglinde: Hm, yeah, guess so. So the question is why doesn't maemo do that? :) Feb 01 20:41:52 Damion2: i'd opt for some usb-storeage server which emulates a virtual FAT over any other filesystem Feb 01 20:41:57 konttori: remind me to try to lecture people about strings Feb 01 20:42:11 that would be awesome and there is already some code in qemu for doing that readonly Feb 01 20:42:21 cehteh: ... that doesn't work in windows Feb 01 20:42:23 they're mixing strings for Foo–updated and Foo–updated Feb 01 20:42:30 which unfortunately doesn't work Feb 01 20:42:31 who cares about windows :P Feb 01 20:42:41 johnsu01 dont ask me Feb 01 20:42:44 cehteh: if you don't care about windows why are you keeping the FAT partition in the first place Feb 01 20:42:51 * ShadowJK suggests rsync over usb then Feb 01 20:42:51 maybee its not following LSB Feb 01 20:42:58 dunno i would delete it :) Feb 01 20:43:06 cehteh: eek not sure that's feasable. the mounting device expects a stock block it can do what it wants with Feb 01 20:43:33 well would quite some work to do, you have to virtualize a complete fat system Feb 01 20:43:35 it's feasable when both sides are read only, and even then is hard. Feb 01 20:43:36 my mount of say ext then colnverted into a fake blobk with fat? v.hard Feb 01 20:43:37 cehteh: yeah, it's really "not simple" Feb 01 20:43:44 are you talking about region settings? Feb 01 20:43:48 or what? Feb 01 20:43:49 konttori: no Feb 01 20:43:55 MfE's sync status Feb 01 20:43:56 look up the eyefi Feb 01 20:43:58 in the system menu Feb 01 20:44:10 cehteh: the system can make an arbitrary series of writes over an arbitrary amount of time Feb 01 20:44:15 oh, well, I suppose we can mess up dates in other places and not just in locales Feb 01 20:44:22 (or the lack of use of locales) Feb 01 20:44:23 i am actually wondering why the n900 doesnt do usb networking by default and starts a samba for the poor windows users Feb 01 20:44:39 cehteh: because windows doesn't come w/ usb networking drivers Feb 01 20:44:42 which means it wouldn't work Feb 01 20:44:46 that would be simple enough to setup and way more flexible Feb 01 20:44:48 this stuff has been discussed Feb 01 20:44:48 it's not only windows Feb 01 20:44:52 it's also in the #maemo logs Feb 01 20:44:53 yeah. other that playstation I use ssh and sshfs Feb 01 20:44:54 timeless: ewww Feb 01 20:44:56 i know, because i put it there Feb 01 20:45:02 it's also plugging it into a printer - and having it 'just work' to print photos Feb 01 20:45:06 now, be a good boy and find the logs so i can write them up Feb 01 20:45:10 if the printer can take mass storage devices. Feb 01 20:45:12 Damion2: the eyefi requires a "compatible" camera Feb 01 20:45:20 or mp3 systems... Feb 01 20:45:27 but yeah, what SpeedEvil said Feb 01 20:45:30 it's not just windows Feb 01 20:45:36 SpeedEvil: it doesnt support PICT bridge anyways .. thats another thing :P Feb 01 20:45:41 usb mass storage is the universal standard because it's the universal standard Feb 01 20:45:52 when I plug in my N900, in "charging only" mode it pretends to be a usb ethernet thing of some sort Feb 01 20:45:55 yeah and FAT sux Feb 01 20:46:02 javispedro: by compatible camera that just means /DCIM/100CANON/filename.jpg Feb 01 20:46:23 Damion2: no. it means they have a _specific_ fat driver they care about Feb 01 20:46:25 and ignore the rest. Feb 01 20:46:47 my linux box saved in to that dir and it worked Feb 01 20:46:47 But you could do like the S60 people have done, put pcsuite "drivers" on a windows readable partition with autostart Feb 01 20:46:50 hence the rather complicated suggestion to make some virtual fat server .. Feb 01 20:46:57 Damion2: how do you tell it to upload the fotos? Feb 01 20:47:02 that would be compatible and flexible .. but quite a lot work to do Feb 01 20:47:22 you don't it just seems to detect no save activity and run a sync Feb 01 20:47:38 Nokia is even doing that for linux now, apparently. The CS-15 modem presents itself as a cdrom, and contains .deb for Ubuntu and autostart crud for windows drivers :-) Feb 01 20:47:39 just port samba? Feb 01 20:47:48 Damion2: that sounds so stupid. Feb 01 20:47:54 or cifs Feb 01 20:47:58 Hi Feb 01 20:47:59 ShadowJK: in charging only mode Feb 01 20:48:08 you're supposed to be an unconfigured usb device and get 100mA Feb 01 20:48:13 Damion2: so what If I write half-photo then my computer freezes for a few seconds and it decides to start uploading corrupting photos Feb 01 20:48:16 * konttori is using paradigm of no-context-menus in the new media player (and not only to be nice to timeless_mbp) Feb 01 20:48:22 it sounds easyfor users and seems to work Feb 01 20:48:23 *corrupted Feb 01 20:48:27 if you don't pick pcsuite mode, then we're not supposed to ask for more Feb 01 20:48:37 konttori: hrm Feb 01 20:48:47 javispedro: dunno, cameras probably don't do that Feb 01 20:48:48 the few context menus in the maemo5 media player are lame Feb 01 20:48:53 timeless_mbp: my N900 presents itself as usb networking and asks for 500mAh in charging only mode Feb 01 20:48:55 so i won't cry when you show me they aren't there Feb 01 20:48:57 Damion2: _compatible_ cameras, I remark. Feb 01 20:48:59 he javis Feb 01 20:49:02 ShadowJK: yeah Feb 01 20:49:02 Damion2: why do you think they keep a list? Feb 01 20:49:05 iirc we cheat Feb 01 20:49:11 but historically we didn't Feb 01 20:49:17 which meant you'd die way too easily Feb 01 20:49:24 moo woglinde Feb 01 20:49:26 timeless_mbp: I thought it was a clever solution :-) Feb 01 20:49:32 javis edward nevielle rockz Feb 01 20:49:37 javispedro: I think most will work if they save in the right place Feb 01 20:49:41 ShadowJK: illegal i believe, but yeah, it's a pretty nice hack Feb 01 20:49:45 he pushed thumbee support into openjdk Feb 01 20:50:41 I guess that there is no way I can resize the home partition while inside maemo Feb 01 20:50:44 woglinde: nice Feb 01 20:50:49 woglinde: have url? Feb 01 20:50:59 is there actual current limiting to 500mA on N900 side? Feb 01 20:51:09 or does it take what it can get.. Feb 01 20:51:23 javispedro: you write a byte to /EyeFi/XXXX (I forget the XXXX name) and moments later anotther file in that directory shows a list of detected access points. it's all rather funky Feb 01 20:51:43 you cannt get certified as a usb host device afaik if you supply more than 500ma Feb 01 20:51:53 Shadikka, ^ Feb 01 20:51:58 ShadowJK even Feb 01 20:52:11 javispedro here bugfixing sruff Feb 01 20:52:15 javis -> http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea6/rev/ab2479dd2f87 Feb 01 20:52:43 woglinde: pretty ironic Zero gained architecture specific support :) Feb 01 20:52:43 in practice lots of computers have no overcurrent protection, or then they just have one limiter for all ports Feb 01 20:52:55 ShadowJK: we take 1.2mA from our 'usb charger' Feb 01 20:53:07 javis I will test it Feb 01 20:53:10 mA? :) Feb 01 20:53:17 1.2A Feb 01 20:53:18 whatever Feb 01 20:53:24 what's 1000x between friends? Feb 01 20:53:27 when I have oe opendjdk support in shape Feb 01 20:53:33 forever you mean .. what charging would take Feb 01 20:53:38 hehe Feb 01 20:53:43 The new server messages are weirding me out. Feb 01 20:53:48 yeah but the charger tells N900 it's okay to pull as much as it wants until voltage drops.. Feb 01 20:54:18 re Feb 01 20:54:27 jo jaffa Feb 01 20:55:19 woglinde: it's nice, though it still surprises me they're using Zero as a JIT... this will end up duplicating a lot of code Feb 01 21:02:23 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/02/01/1555206/Nokia-N900-Linux-Smartphone-Running-OS-X?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher Feb 01 21:02:48 sigh Feb 01 21:02:52 "cool" Feb 01 21:02:53 Hey how can i change format of date and time on maemo 5? Feb 01 21:03:09 sp3000: progress Feb 01 21:03:10 # Summary: 9 / 53 Feb 01 21:05:03 so, that just leaves me w/ the annoying strings Feb 01 21:05:13 * timeless_mbp tries to decide how to deal w/ 'to' Feb 01 21:06:19 * javispedro is surprised the first think a supposed geek criticizes about the n900 "debianness" is the /etc/sudoers Feb 01 21:06:27 (on slashdot article) Feb 01 21:06:32 ... Feb 01 21:06:53 javispedro: you mean that you have to use /etc/sudoers.d/ ? Feb 01 21:06:58 (and update-sudoers) Feb 01 21:07:22 timeless: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1532544&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=30985824#30986130 Feb 01 21:07:26 all intelligence flees http Feb 01 21:08:03 hrm Feb 01 21:08:16 "from what I read online". Even more weird. No one in Slashdot is criticizing the "debinannes" of the N900 (in fact the grandposter is saying "it has a sane filesystem layout") Feb 01 21:09:49 Is there any own N900 channel where to ask questions bout maemo and how tos Feb 01 21:10:01 javispedro, clearly Nokia shills. Feb 01 21:10:20 GeneralAntilles: that, or no one has it yet. Feb 01 21:10:26 iPeter-: yes, ##n900 but it hasn't become popular Feb 01 21:10:36 or #maemo-users ? Feb 01 21:10:38 Damn Feb 01 21:10:41 nm Feb 01 21:10:57 though someone hints at the monster behind the facade, quietly: "although N900 had me at 'df -h'". Feb 01 21:11:29 damn classpath Feb 01 21:11:30 still getting badsig from maemo.org... :( Feb 01 21:12:09 But how to change date style, i have language on english but region setting on Finland, still it shows time like 02/01/10, it should show 01/02/10, where to change it on N900 Feb 01 21:12:24 you can't Feb 01 21:12:29 at least yet Feb 01 21:12:54 in evince on maemo5 how do you get out of full screen view? Feb 01 21:13:16 jebba: I find camerad helps with that Feb 01 21:13:19 W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG E40DC434616730BD maemo.org Feb 01 21:13:33 jebba: also ctrl-enter? Feb 01 21:13:36 jebba: Press power button, if you are running example nes emulator and want to close it press power button for options Feb 01 21:13:37 pupnik: they're signing packages now!! O.o Feb 01 21:14:14 jebba: or the builtin ctrl-backspace, but I think you know that already. If this the same diablo source package then there's no other fullscreen hotkey iirc. Feb 01 21:14:21 ya, i can close it, i just want to keep viewing it in evince but not in fullscreen. It's definitely not F11 like in regular evince ;) Feb 01 21:14:30 does the maemo kernel support inline resizing? Feb 01 21:14:37 Whats best media player for Maemo5? Feb 01 21:14:38 jebba: try the diablo F6 Feb 01 21:14:38 online* Feb 01 21:15:04 this is just whatever evince is in maemo-extras* Feb 01 21:15:40 http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1532544&cid=30984582 -- who would have thought you would hear such praise about a Nokia phone ;) Feb 01 21:15:49 hum.. not same version as in diablo, so dunno. Feb 01 21:15:57 also, would the following partition table be valid, and would swap be mounted correctly? Feb 01 21:15:59 http://pastebin.com/m3248f90b Feb 01 21:16:18 asj_: that's exactly the nokia shill we where discussing just a few minutes ago :) Feb 01 21:16:32 s/where/were, s/we/I :) Feb 01 21:17:09 no idea how to fix this - teh googles are not helping Feb 01 21:17:33 pupnik: if they just started signing packages, the key they used must be lying around somewhere Feb 01 21:17:49 mmf. Feb 01 21:18:03 this error has been happening since at least december 14 javispedro Feb 01 21:18:44 pupnik: are you completely sure, or was it "a slightly diferent error" talking about missing pgp signature? Feb 01 21:18:52 mmf. my enter in xterm is buggy.. Feb 01 21:19:00 norwegian layout. Feb 01 21:19:03 the BADSIG matches http://ibot.rikers.org/%23maemo/20091214.html.gz Feb 01 21:20:04 ah cool, SpeedEvil ctrl-enter does it on evince. thx! :) Feb 01 21:20:21 Veggen: known bug Feb 01 21:20:53 ah. probably will be fixed then? Feb 01 21:21:50 hmm, but you can't zoom in full screen mode (?). Feb 01 21:21:52 sorry don't know Feb 01 21:22:03 presumably Feb 01 21:22:53 I've mapped it in vim other apps don't tend to care, such as irssi Feb 01 21:24:33 hmm, I have a feeling bad things are about to happen. I have used sfdisk to expand the mmcblk0p1 partition to take up all the space up to the swap, made p2 size 0, Feb 01 21:24:56 resisize2fs isn't resizing p1 to fill the partition Feb 01 21:25:36 jophish: have you read the numerous threads in talk.maemo.org about repartitioning? Feb 01 21:25:44 like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37869 Feb 01 21:25:48 I have been through them a bit Feb 01 21:26:17 diskpart needed to sync kernel's cached idea of the partition? Feb 01 21:26:57 hmm? Feb 01 21:27:06 or is it partprobe Feb 01 21:27:26 the script/walkthrough I read had a few reboots Feb 01 21:27:46 which achieves the same without crosscompiling partprobe Feb 01 21:27:59 I have used sfdisk to change the internal card to the following: Feb 01 21:28:00 http://pastebin.com/m3248f90b Feb 01 21:28:27 shouldn't resize2fs on /dev/mmcblk0p1 expand it to fill the remaining space in it's partition? Feb 01 21:28:50 yeah but unless the kernel outputted a fresh idea of the partition like when you plug an mmc in, I doubt it'll work Feb 01 21:28:51 Veggen: You can use Ctrl-M - it's a known bug Feb 01 21:28:54 dmesg? Feb 01 21:28:58 ah of course Feb 01 21:29:03 and partprobe isn't here Feb 01 21:29:07 so, reboot. Feb 01 21:29:22 Veggen: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009 Feb 01 21:29:26 Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications Feb 01 21:29:27 of course it might not come up now Feb 01 21:29:39 fingers crossed then Feb 01 21:29:40 thanks Feb 01 21:30:43 jophish: if you want to shrink the ext3 parition you can do it before mounting it in rcS-late Feb 01 21:31:00 oh, that's a good trick Feb 01 21:31:14 Linux is so brilliant Feb 01 21:31:16 t-tan: what does happen if I comment that line on rcS-late. does it boot normally, putting the files in / ? Feb 01 21:31:43 jophish: you might find some inspiration in my modifications of the scripts in http://www.maemory.com/N900/misc/mmc/ Feb 01 21:31:51 jophish: but backup first! Feb 01 21:32:15 javispedro: sorry, which line? Feb 01 21:32:35 t-tan: mount /home. Feb 01 21:33:00 javispedro: IIRC it means REFLASH Feb 01 21:33:27 but for unknown causes? Feb 01 21:33:40 the rootfs fills? Feb 01 21:34:05 that's a 'great' one Jaffa >_< Feb 01 21:34:09 t-tan, all is hunky-dory, I now have a nice big ext3 home partition Feb 01 21:34:34 javispedro: I think it crashes at "mkdir /home/user" without the -p Feb 01 21:34:50 and when it gets fixed, we get to switch back SDL programs to use Enter Feb 01 21:34:57 ??? /home exists in rootfs, and /home/user would succeed then. Feb 01 21:35:08 now to create symlinks Feb 01 21:35:17 your script is very useful by the way t-tan Feb 01 21:35:18 javispedro: you right Feb 01 21:35:53 I should try that some day. Just put in /usr/sbin/sshd & sleep 50 there and see what's going on Feb 01 21:36:11 javispedro: good luck! :) Feb 01 21:45:00 J.S. Bach - Chromatic Fantasies ... +++ Feb 01 21:48:39 pupnik, my favourite Bach piece Feb 01 21:49:08 bbiab Feb 01 22:06:07 can anyone help howto get scratchbox working with apt-get? Feb 01 22:07:24 ifreq, like this: http://inz.fi/blog/2007/10/22/multi-target-development-for-maemo/ ? Feb 01 22:07:47 * sp3000 doesn't understand https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8679#c2 Feb 01 22:07:48 Bug 8679: Make calendar default view configurable via calendar settings menu Feb 01 22:08:18 inz: okay, sec Feb 01 22:08:25 how is pref bloat, options separated from their immediate results, more convenient than implicit customizability by persisting view type? Feb 01 22:10:10 sure, there's slight improvement for things like, same state whenever opened, but since it's largely dynamic content the muscle memory part doesn't really weigh that much Feb 01 22:11:34 lo Feb 01 22:11:39 * DocScrutinizer suggests a "make this view default" and "default to last state" button Feb 01 22:11:48 sms is nice with n900, well done ! Feb 01 22:12:01 rather a toggle Feb 01 22:15:18 Hi to all Feb 01 22:15:23 sp3000, because they're users. ;) Feb 01 22:16:00 * sp3000 dislikes options Feb 01 22:16:08 except the ones I change, those are awesome Feb 01 22:20:44 n1c0, you can even continue your interrupted sms at a later point Feb 01 22:20:54 for each conversation, that is Feb 01 22:21:58 yeah its cool Feb 01 22:22:12 it's like instantmessage Feb 01 22:22:18 does anyone know how I can map \033[M....... to ^I ? where the dots are regex style arbitrary charactors ? Feb 01 22:22:27 yup, telcos will be pleased with my increases sms usage Feb 01 22:22:40 screen's bindkey wants exacts Feb 01 22:30:50 * sp3000 wonders if there's a doc for what was implemented for bug 5357 Feb 01 22:30:51 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5357 Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *# Feb 01 22:33:12 * sp3000 would like to be able to refer to something when looking at a dup Feb 01 22:37:27 hope y'all cashed out your 401k's Feb 01 22:40:28 why are ppl switching to tmux from screen? Feb 01 22:41:07 cos scren rocks? Feb 01 22:42:07 so why are they switching? Feb 01 22:42:23 it can't just be the licence Feb 01 22:44:11 pupnik: something happened? Feb 01 22:45:16 I have an impeccable ability to predict these things. whenever I buy a share, the stockmarket tends to collapse the next day. Guess I should start warning people Feb 01 22:45:47 buying nokia stock? Feb 01 22:47:49 i wish :) Feb 01 22:55:07 wah Feb 01 22:55:13 kino tv is advertising Dexter Feb 01 22:55:15 but i don't get it Feb 01 22:56:19 Damion2: id like to know that too :p Feb 01 22:58:07 red how to map stuff of what the fuss is about swicthing to tmux? Feb 01 22:58:42 timeless: hm :) Feb 01 22:58:58 dont get it why people still use texttv? Feb 01 22:59:25 is that aalib output of mythtv? Feb 01 23:00:03 ShadowJK: s/text// Feb 01 23:01:33 Damion2: no it's digital data embedded in the analog tv signal. it carries 40*20 char text pages, up to 800ish different ones max, and you can pick with remote control which one to view Feb 01 23:01:55 usually has tv programme info, news, sport results etc Feb 01 23:02:08 like teletext? Feb 01 23:02:16 same thing Feb 01 23:02:29 right, never heard of texttv Feb 01 23:02:41 subtitles were also sent Feb 01 23:02:50 each country calls it something different... Feb 01 23:02:58 videotext in germany iirc Feb 01 23:03:10 * Damion2 had involvement in BBC R&D's developement of digital text mheg stream Feb 01 23:03:56 the linux pcs which fed in to the transport stream ran my build of slackware Feb 01 23:04:46 and my team supported the tcl based scripts on the sun server that fed the carosel of data Feb 01 23:04:57 this was 1999/2000 ish Feb 01 23:05:44 mm, thinking of tethering N900 at school pc to connect the school PC directly into my linux server at home Feb 01 23:06:04 effectively being able to use folderwatching in realmtime and when i save stuff its at home directly Feb 01 23:06:08 Does /usr/bin/smartcal core for otehrs? Feb 01 23:06:21 red: over usb? Feb 01 23:07:46 school pc not connected to internet? Feb 01 23:08:04 probably nasty filter? Feb 01 23:08:12 ShadowJK: i don't think the usa really has it Feb 01 23:08:18 i've seen it in france, germany and finland Feb 01 23:08:25 but it was one of those things that i think we missed Feb 01 23:08:38 hat's smartcal? Feb 01 23:08:47 What* Feb 01 23:09:00 the tv-text nonsense Feb 01 23:09:05 DocScrutinizer: I dunno. Feb 01 23:09:15 DocScrutinizer: I just know it coredumped when I ran it. Feb 01 23:09:18 I was going for smem Feb 01 23:09:24 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/02/01/1555206/Nokia-N900-Linux-Smartphone-Running-OS-X?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher Feb 01 23:09:25 err Feb 01 23:09:27 not that Feb 01 23:09:34 http://www.selenic.com/smem/ Feb 01 23:09:35 that Feb 01 23:09:45 man smartcal doesn't work here :-P Feb 01 23:09:51 which is a handy memory tool that's a bit better Feb 01 23:09:55 than my awk hack Feb 01 23:10:46 timeless_mbp: We have "closed captions"... but nothing user-navigable. Feb 01 23:10:57 closed captions are totally different Feb 01 23:11:03 the text stuff is roughly speaking its own channel Feb 01 23:11:18 which happens to multiplex a whole bunch of 'text channels' Feb 01 23:11:23 timeless: sadly if you're looking for specific info like a channel's schedule or a sport channel's sport results, texttv is often faster and easier to navigate than the web pages :-) Feb 01 23:11:46 they dont have that much room for extra crap on texttv pages Feb 01 23:12:01 no. Feb 01 23:12:03 nite all, sweet dreams Feb 01 23:12:08 night. Feb 01 23:12:09 ShadowJK: well, the usa tv guide systems have worked much better than whatever for decades Feb 01 23:12:23 plus tivo solved epg over a decade ago Feb 01 23:12:29 I wouldn't agree. Feb 01 23:12:36 The UK is fucking it up. Feb 01 23:12:40 The TV guide system was horribly before Tivo. Feb 01 23:13:06 derf: the tv guide stuff i have here in .fi is worse than the tv guide i had in 1990 in the us Feb 01 23:13:14 Okay, that I can believe. Feb 01 23:13:23 They are 'encrypting' the data in a manner that may stop STB makers using linux Feb 01 23:13:58 Though the data is required to be broadcast in the clear, they are encrypting the EPG - with a already leaked huffman code... Feb 01 23:14:12 I've never really used the Tivo-style DVR-provided listings. Feb 01 23:14:44 the ringtone selection dialog has a button that says "Done", right? Feb 01 23:14:46 But they look _so_ much better than the old system of having a dedicated channel that scrolled past the listings for 70+ channels... very... very... slow... ly... Feb 01 23:14:49 timeless_mbp knows Feb 01 23:15:20 yes Feb 01 23:15:25 tx Feb 01 23:15:38 'more' [sic] and 'done' Feb 01 23:22:27 derf, you gotta target the slowest readers. ;) Feb 01 23:23:48 My solution was to just stop watching TV. Feb 01 23:24:03 * SpeedEvil passes derf the super-shotgun to target the slowest readers with. Feb 01 23:24:21 * SpeedEvil is listening to more radio. Feb 01 23:24:28 radio4++ Feb 01 23:24:50 UK speech radio. It's really - really not 'talk' radio as is known in the US. Feb 01 23:25:13 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qyyb - for example Feb 01 23:25:17 Sure. Feb 01 23:25:23 And a water fountain isn't a bubbler. Feb 01 23:25:33 And a garage isn't a mechanic. Feb 01 23:25:35 RST38h: I'm going to promote vultures to diablo extras, if you don't mind. Feb 01 23:25:37 any idea if the fosdem schedule is available in binary, somewhere? Feb 01 23:26:07 also, will there be n910 to play with? Feb 01 23:26:16 cat /dev/random - and wait till it comes along? Feb 01 23:26:49 the above source also has pictures of tne n910, and video reviews. Feb 01 23:29:35 what's the easiest way to hack on modest (I'd like to try out some changes on my n900)? Feb 01 23:29:55 is it likely to be easily buildable on my n900? Feb 01 23:30:28 speedevil the bbc site does not Feb 01 23:30:37 * mtd looks for git, fears library-dependency hell... Feb 01 23:31:10 apt-get source modest ? Feb 01 23:32:54 ptl: hmm, need to get sources in my sources.list... Feb 01 23:32:54 Guest3: no, it doesn't. The n910 is - as I understand it - not publically confirmed to exist - or ecvent to have that number. Feb 01 23:33:13 Guest: I was refering to /dev/random Feb 01 23:33:23 n910? Feb 01 23:33:25 c'mon Feb 01 23:33:27 my n900 hasn't even arrived yet Feb 01 23:34:13 Guest36580, lol. . . . Feb 01 23:34:22 ah; k Feb 01 23:34:28 Because Nokia ALWAYS does major product announcements at FOSDEM. . . . Feb 01 23:35:36 GeneralAntilles: ofcourse they're going to announce N910 running symbian, android, webos and even iphoneos and windows mobile, with turn-by-turn navigation, friggen lasers and ovi maps tha doesn'tsuck Feb 01 23:35:40 :P Feb 01 23:35:44 lol Feb 01 23:36:12 laser for pointing a stars, guided by the compass and gyro! Feb 01 23:37:51 Stskeeps, I dunno how people can say "Man, I'm just going to buy a Droid/iPhone/Pre/HD2/whatever". Feb 01 23:38:01 Stskeeps, nobody even comes close to matching Maemo. Feb 01 23:38:28 Stskeeps: and then they're going to announce that "we're leaving to the community to implement all those features to the N900" Feb 01 23:38:45 javispedro, but taking down all of the source code repositories? *eg* Feb 01 23:38:45 GeneralAntilles: some people in #mer are trying to port Mer to Droid. Feb 01 23:38:52 can't wait for friggin lasers closed source drivers. Feb 01 23:38:53 lol Feb 01 23:38:56 Just buy a freaking N900. . . . Feb 01 23:39:00 GeneralAntilles: for which target audience? Feb 01 23:39:05 Better keyboard, better screen, better build. Feb 01 23:39:17 mtd, for ME. Feb 01 23:39:24 mtd, since I'm clearly the only person who matters. ;) Feb 01 23:39:33 GeneralAntilles: bigger, slower scrolling, more confusing software Feb 01 23:39:42 GeneralAntilles: ah, then I agree. Feb 01 23:39:42 IT'S NOT SMOOTH! DEALBREAKER! Feb 01 23:40:19 GeneralAntilles: ah, then I agree. Feb 01 23:40:22 mtd, bigger in which dimension? Feb 01 23:40:23 ugh Feb 01 23:40:33 GeneralAntilles: thickness Feb 01 23:40:37 The Droid is a bit wider, I think. Feb 01 23:41:00 VDVsx, boo hiss! Use the Council blog. Feb 01 23:41:03 javispedro: you clearly have not given steve jobs enough money this week. Feb 01 23:41:29 N900 with LAZORS!!! OMG GIF *starts throwing money around* Feb 01 23:41:58 It would be nice if stuff would be smooth Feb 01 23:42:11 I'll be happy with a keyboard and accurate fingernail friendly touchscreen Feb 01 23:42:14 * mtd awaits the rumours about laser-fearing iphone owners and warnings about overclocking the lasers Feb 01 23:42:38 Surely it can't be _that_ hard to have a fixed element - and a large off-screen fully mapped element that's blitted into place by the gpu Feb 01 23:42:41 GeneralAntilles, cofh, cofh, I don't want to spend one hour editing a simple post ;) Feb 01 23:42:43 r composited or something Feb 01 23:43:06 SpeedEvil: nokia thinks we like it rough. Feb 01 23:43:38 * mtd should get back to pretending it may be possible to build modest Feb 01 23:43:39 Nothing a good belt-sander can't fix. Feb 01 23:43:56 I have just gotten used to it, scrolling is never smooth with nokia Feb 01 23:44:14 But it could be so beautifully smooth with the hardware :/ Feb 01 23:44:18 look at frigging bounce. Feb 01 23:44:31 get rovio to do the UI! Feb 01 23:44:36 yeah, I believe you Feb 01 23:44:41 Problem solved! Feb 01 23:44:55 * SpeedEvil imagines angrybirds application launcher. Feb 01 23:45:04 even the bookmark view is laggy! Feb 01 23:45:12 my scrolling is smoth Feb 01 23:45:13 GeneralAntilles, humm, that remembers me, have to request some kind of syndication for the council blog (don't like midgard' engine') Feb 01 23:45:14 smoothy Feb 01 23:45:17 smooth Feb 01 23:45:29 xorg could be a major factor to the bad smooth, the linux desktop is the same Feb 01 23:45:53 need moar xcb and less xlib so processes don't choke the xserver :( Feb 01 23:46:11 Damion2: launch the email client, view your inbox, drag the view down until you can see above the "+ New mail" button Feb 01 23:46:25 * VDVsx blames hildon, since Qt and EFL have very smoth and fast scroll Feb 01 23:46:29 I use alpine Feb 01 23:46:30 Damion2: watch your cpu get pegged and the image tear. Feb 01 23:46:37 android bypasses this entirely, they don't use an xserver Feb 01 23:46:41 contacts scroll and browser scroll are smooth Feb 01 23:47:04 Damion2: browser scroll is implemented completely differently. Feb 01 23:47:17 xorg can't do vsync, its design doesn't allow it so you get tearing Feb 01 23:47:32 so they should fix the email client Feb 01 23:47:50 contacts is hardly smooth by steve jobs standards. Feb 01 23:47:50 MistaED1: even with DRI or GL ? Feb 01 23:47:52 a better approach is to port the toolkits over to EGL directly Feb 01 23:48:00 javispedro: it's as good as android Feb 01 23:48:13 maybe we should have the debian user space with a freebsd based kernel Feb 01 23:48:34 Damion2: do you have any idea what you're talking abojut? Feb 01 23:48:34 Damion2: hmm good question dri2 might've fixed it for the linux desktop Feb 01 23:48:46 Damion2: of course it's as good and usable as android! and I don't even have an iphone to compare but it's clearly not enough for tmo! =) Feb 01 23:49:01 yeah, jobs just blamed flash and bluray to be not good enough for them, I don't want to hear what he says about n900 scrolling :) Feb 01 23:49:15 mtd: macos was freebsd kernel based Feb 01 23:49:24 then again, I don't want to hear anything else he says either.. Feb 01 23:49:38 Damion2: that'd be a "no", then. ok. Feb 01 23:49:57 I've used fbsd for months and it had a nicer lower latency feel than linux as a desktop in X Feb 01 23:51:00 when Qt or GTK get rendered to the screen it goes through texture from pixmap, so the cpu renders the result to a pixmap, the EGL extension converts it to a texture and then the hildon compositor can display it Feb 01 23:51:06 Damion2: your ideas are compelling and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Feb 01 23:51:09 this is very inefficient but gets the job done Feb 01 23:51:27 * DocScrutinizer drools over his 150mW geen and his 405nm laser Feb 01 23:51:37 but if they render via clutter (opengl es directly) it doesn't go through this path fortunately Feb 01 23:52:30 MistaED1 qt-opengl should be the same as clutter Feb 01 23:52:31 MistaED1: rendering a interface using GLES is hardly much faster. Feb 01 23:53:19 does maemo do the texture from pixmap step on a GLES rendered context still? Feb 01 23:53:38 MistaED1: yes, except if the window is fullscreen. Feb 01 23:53:54 i'm guessing this is what hildon non composited window does to bypass it? Feb 01 23:54:00 build a 405nm laser module to the screen slider. make screen slide open by servo. create spindle motor out of vibrator -> here you got your B&O alike DVD player on N900 XP Feb 01 23:54:21 MistaED1: that is now (mostly) gone. Fullscreen windows are unredirected by default. Feb 01 23:54:48 errr bluray of course Feb 01 23:54:58 friggin lasers! Feb 01 23:55:10 javispedro: i did notice rendering panda3d samples in windowed mode to fullscreen makes the framerate double Feb 01 23:55:57 yep Feb 01 23:56:51 i wonder though, would interfacing with xcb instead of xlib stop the stutters as well? xcb was all about low latency and being thread safe so that no single window would choke the whole xserver or something Feb 01 23:57:24 I think this doesn't have anything to do with latency, though... Feb 01 23:57:27 spindle fixture plugged in to the 3.5mm AV hole to connect to the vibrator Feb 01 23:59:44 comes with hansaplast patches ;-) "if ever you touch the spinning bluray disc accidentally and get hurt" Feb 02 00:01:34 Is there any themes to N900 (Maemo 5)? Feb 02 00:01:57 mtd: you're being nasty. I simply joked that if android and maemo were too jerky for mr jobs then perhaps it was a linux vs iphoneos(macosx) difference, and from what I recall macosx was initially based on a freebsd kernel. I then commented that I'd used freebsd and found it gave a responsive X experience. Feb 02 00:02:09 iPeter-, yes, check out Ovi Store Feb 02 00:02:11 is there a ncurses music player on maemo? Feb 02 00:02:52 no, but I don't think it would be very hard to port one ifreq Feb 02 00:02:58 bbl Feb 02 00:05:44 TomaszD: well ive ported mp3blaster but it needs heavy modification on UI as screen is quite small for it :P Feb 02 00:05:54 newer moc/cmus dont compile straight from the box Feb 02 00:08:18 list Feb 02 00:09:38 hai thar Feb 02 00:10:07 hi Feb 02 00:10:19 i have a question Feb 02 00:10:24 i just got my N900, anybody knows about installing dosbox on it? Feb 02 00:10:59 where i canfind for docs about terminal use on noppl Feb 02 00:11:09 Vanadis: it's on extras-testing, so you need to be lectured firstly about the dangers of untested software and backups and blabla. Feb 02 00:11:19 kthx Feb 02 00:13:05 Is there any "must get" stuff to n900? Feb 02 00:13:24 How bout that Android to N900 does it work? Feb 02 00:14:00 android vm thingy? Feb 02 00:14:10 vm? Feb 02 00:14:23 virtual machine Feb 02 00:14:37 Was it virtual machine? I tought it was own OS on n900 :E Feb 02 00:15:05 * woglinde wonders when google will use thumbee support Feb 02 00:15:11 for android Feb 02 00:15:46 oh rats, bricked it Feb 02 00:16:14 i would want to try something cool with my n900, to see the power, just dont know what. Feb 02 00:16:25 I like to mess with different os:es but.. :p Feb 02 00:16:28 iPeter-: i meant like running android apps on maemo on n900. Feb 02 00:17:24 zash: No. Like own os flashed to N900 Feb 02 00:17:37 with dual boot ofc. Feb 02 00:17:56 iPeter-: i think i saw something about someone doing that ... Feb 02 00:18:40 I saw too but im interested what it can do? Can you call with it or? Feb 02 00:19:32 where i can find for docs about terminal use on N900? Feb 02 00:19:39 anybody tried running Tomb Raider through Dosbox on N900? Feb 02 00:21:09 woglinde: they have only recently started using a JIT _at all_ for dalvik, so... Feb 02 00:22:39 http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2007/08/09/qt-invaded-by-aliens-the-end-of-all-flicker some xcb discussion in the comments, i wonder if hildon/gtk uses xcb directly or uses the xlib wrapper Feb 02 00:23:26 to see the power, hook up multimeter in-series to charger Feb 02 00:23:37 * pupnik ducks Feb 02 00:29:14 MistaED1: Package: libgtk2.0-0 Depends: libx11-6 Feb 02 00:38:46 iPeter-: the android sdk has a vm for running dalvik Feb 02 00:39:05 probably the most revealing video about Apple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZS8HqOGTbA Feb 02 00:39:09 They're brainwashing!!! Feb 02 00:39:10 porting it may be doable Feb 02 00:40:22 Damion2: could be, but I doubt it Feb 02 00:40:33 "I am not a complete idiot, but whether from weakness or laziness have no talent for thinking. I know only how to reflect: I am a mirror ." - Sviatoslav Richter Feb 02 00:41:30 crashanddie: yeah? Feb 02 00:41:55 ~test Feb 02 00:41:56 Failed! Feb 02 00:42:07 infobot: wanna get a voice? Feb 02 00:42:45 ~8ball do you need a voice? Feb 02 00:42:46 Negative. Feb 02 00:42:53 ~8ball do you want one? Feb 02 00:42:55 I'm sure of it. Feb 02 00:43:13 sp3000: # Summary: 3 / 53 Feb 02 00:43:40 * sp3000 contemplates sleep, early morning and all Feb 02 00:43:50 and one of those 3 is the header which doesn't count! Feb 02 00:44:02 yeah, sleep. i want to meet the people @9:30 Feb 02 00:44:03 SUPELATIVE * >9k Feb 02 00:44:13 msgstr "Get started with your Nokia N900" Feb 02 00:44:13 # msgstr "Get started with the Nokia N900" Feb 02 00:44:25 msgstr "…to get started with your Nokia N900" Feb 02 00:44:33 so the 'your' thing sucks Feb 02 00:44:39 i think that the code is right Feb 02 00:44:47 and my translation is wrong :) Feb 02 00:45:00 * timeless_mbp awards credit to the code Feb 02 00:45:09 msgid "tuto_ti_web_page" Feb 02 00:45:10 msgstr "Browser" Feb 02 00:45:10 # msgstr "Web" Feb 02 00:45:13 that leaves that one Feb 02 00:45:25 which for 1 failure in a deck of 52 cards, i should just eat :) Feb 02 00:46:12 # Summary: 24 / 160 Feb 02 00:46:15 calendar failures Feb 02 00:47:00 hrm, calendar is complaining that i don't handle msgid_plural Feb 02 00:47:28 * N900evil clones timeless_mbp. Feb 02 00:47:37 why me? Feb 02 00:48:01 to handle plurals of course. Feb 02 00:48:06 heh Feb 02 00:48:43 xargs -n 1 -p 9000 timeless_mbp --do-task < ~timeless_mbp/todo Feb 02 00:48:55 :P Feb 02 00:49:15 i'm not sure that'd make a sizable dent in my todo list :b Feb 02 00:49:21 You are currently using 6735 MB (90%) of your 7418 MB. Feb 02 00:49:33 Inbox (373578) Feb 02 00:49:48 ~$ du -sh Maildir/ Feb 02 00:49:54 is there an easy way to set desktop backgrounds from scripts? Feb 02 00:49:55 60M Maildir/ Feb 02 00:50:08 mouhahaha Feb 02 00:50:56 I'd like to make a background with gnuplot every hour and supply it to the dedktop Feb 02 00:51:22 N900evil: cool, what data? Feb 02 00:51:49 weather, weight, Feb 02 00:52:45 http://www.mauve.plus.com/weight.gif for the latter. Feb 02 00:53:24 parsing yr.no pages for the former Feb 02 00:56:05 * N900evil sighs at busybox awk. Feb 02 00:56:11 and find. Feb 02 00:56:18 and tar Feb 02 00:56:23 oh - dd Feb 02 00:56:34 What should i try with dosbox, hmm. Feb 02 00:57:02 lemmings! Feb 02 00:57:15 Suggest something cool and possible with dosbox Feb 02 00:57:46 Microsoft QB 4.5 Feb 02 00:58:15 give dosbox as many viruses as you can. Feb 02 00:58:30 Lol. Feb 02 00:58:36 What os works best with the dosbox? Feb 02 00:58:42 the builtin one. Feb 02 00:59:10 With GUI Feb 02 00:59:18 how many cycles do you run it at usually javispedro Feb 02 00:59:25 pupnik: I leave it at auto... Feb 02 00:59:28 didn't i see something about running win3.1 in dosbox ? Feb 02 00:59:37 pupnik: I do usually put a high frameskip though Feb 02 00:59:58 same. 3-4 Feb 02 01:00:04 as I 've said a few times, I don't play games with dosbox -- I use some stupid oldie apps (one of those is actually QB 4.5, don't ask) Feb 02 01:00:31 hmm. Feb 02 01:00:45 I have some Word 1 disks Feb 02 01:01:15 you could try the GEM desktop Feb 02 01:01:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_Environment_Manager Feb 02 01:01:27 du -q C:\exchange Files: 8 Directories: 0 Size: 18,412,212,054 bytes Feb 02 01:02:12 yup, that's 18gig worth of email... in just over a year Feb 02 01:02:22 nice. is that local or the server? does MS still share the entire dir with r/w permissions via samba on the server by default (i've not used exchange since the microsoft mail days)? =) Feb 02 01:02:55 javispedro: local Feb 02 01:02:57 Hmm, any ideas where to get Windows 3.1 to run it with dosbox? I hope this aint warez talk lol. Feb 02 01:03:17 iPeter-: do you have a Windows 3.1 License? Feb 02 01:03:25 No? Feb 02 01:03:31 Then it's warez Feb 02 01:03:32 iPeter-: it mostly is, since copying the files and running "INSTALL" is trivial, so all is left is the license issue. Feb 02 01:03:44 Lol. Feb 02 01:03:45 crashanddie, he could be perfectly willing to buy it, and asking where he cand o that. Feb 02 01:03:51 :D Feb 02 01:03:59 iPeter-: call microsoft and ask D: Feb 02 01:04:04 Good point ScribbleJ Feb 02 01:04:08 well ms stopped selling it a few years ago (not that many as you may think, tough) Feb 02 01:04:09 I don't think I could easily read more than a gig of email a year. Feb 02 01:04:29 eBay! Feb 02 01:04:33 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=889482fc-5f56-4a38-b838-de776fd4138c&displaylang=en Feb 02 01:04:40 Is that it or not? Feb 02 01:04:43 ScribbleJ: doesn't matter Feb 02 01:04:50 iPeter-: no. Feb 02 01:04:53 ScribbleJ: either you have the right to run it, or you don't, end of discussion Feb 02 01:04:56 Argh. Feb 02 01:05:07 ScribbleJ: willingness has nothing to do with it Feb 02 01:05:15 Hm, well i think i have to go sleep, nothing doesnt work now. Feb 02 01:05:26 so everything works? Feb 02 01:05:38 iPeter-: a keyword for tomorrow when you start playing with the dosbox shell: rover.sys Feb 02 01:05:41 crashanddie, I think you missed the distinction I was making. I was suggesting (probably incorrectly) that the question he was asking was, "where can I buy it?" Feb 02 01:05:56 I need to edit the welcome banner some day Feb 02 01:06:00 ScribbleJ: yeah, I don't believe that Feb 02 01:06:14 Well, me neither. But that's what I was shooting at. Feb 02 01:07:39 pupnik: I just uploaded libsdl-haa1.2 to extras Feb 02 01:07:45 pupnik: haa=hildon_animation_actor Feb 02 01:07:57 ohh? Feb 02 01:08:22 ty Feb 02 01:08:29 on pr1.0 drnoksnes runs at the same speed in both (composited) assembly 2x, haa 2x, and haa "fill screen" Feb 02 01:08:41 which means that truly you get the same overhead with HAA no matter the aspect ratio Feb 02 01:09:01 and you can also do free rotations and transparencies (I don't know what for, but I pot support for those nonetheless) Feb 02 01:09:25 (I can't do pr1.1 tests unfortunately) Feb 02 01:09:29 (since I don't have it) Feb 02 01:09:33 (yet) Feb 02 01:09:39 Why woudl you not update to pr1.1, javis? Feb 02 01:10:35 ScribbleJ: cause I'd need to check which patches have been applied and which not to some components, and I am also waiting for osso-wlan-security pap support or free time to build my libicd-wpa library again Feb 02 01:10:54 By the way, have anyone had problems with N900 (maemo 5) mail application, it says everysecond mail topic as "invalid" Feb 02 01:11:00 you know, it works, don't touch it =) Feb 02 01:11:04 Right on Feb 02 01:12:05 * timeless_mbp sighs Feb 02 01:12:27 ... it sure would be nice if my n900 would _charge_ while plugged into the usb charger.... Feb 02 01:12:27 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libs/ not finding yet Feb 02 01:12:38 and t-offline is screwing my update Feb 02 01:13:47 what do you mean, timeless_mbp? Feb 02 01:13:55 pupnik: yeah, it seems that the autobuilder hasn't moved it to the repo yet, even though the build finished an hour ago Feb 02 01:13:56 it charges, only slower, isn't it? Feb 02 01:14:05 ptl: no, it doesn't charge :) Feb 02 01:14:12 proto hardware isn't for sales, for a reason :) Feb 02 01:14:41 * pupnik is amazed at the durability Feb 02 01:14:46 :O Feb 02 01:14:55 pupnik: right now http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/s/sdlhaa/ Feb 02 01:15:06 i got an .iso image, where do i put it to get it open with dosbox Feb 02 01:15:07 then why is it called a charger? Feb 02 01:15:21 thx again. i'll try to use it right away Feb 02 01:15:57 oh and i forgot to see how drnok outputs sound Feb 02 01:16:03 pupnik: grab the source http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/s/sdlhaa/sdlhaa_1.0.0.tar.gz and check the "tests" subdirectory Feb 02 01:16:10 kk Feb 02 01:16:12 for samples Feb 02 01:16:14 ptl: Im sure there is some kind bug, it doesnt regonize it. Feb 02 01:16:15 ptl: well, when it runs out of power, it'll start charging :) Feb 02 01:16:23 (it just gave me Recharge Battery Now! Feb 02 01:16:27 so now i can start using it... Feb 02 01:16:27 pupnik: I'm still using SDL audio Feb 02 01:16:39 Is the source code available for the N900's default calendar application? Feb 02 01:16:46 Pavel: no Feb 02 01:16:51 but how bout my dosbox question :o Feb 02 01:17:02 Darn... Feb 02 01:17:05 Pavel: do yourself a favor and just find a team of people willing to write a better one Feb 02 01:17:14 the default app is not a good starting point Feb 02 01:17:16 iPeter-: http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/IMGMOUNT Feb 02 01:17:42 timeless_mbp: what about gpe calendar? Feb 02 01:17:50 what about it? Feb 02 01:17:56 got screenshots? Feb 02 01:18:03 Thanks. Google is yours frined, not mine :d Feb 02 01:18:03 well, why NIH if there is already a cal app Feb 02 01:18:35 xorAxAx: screenshots? Feb 02 01:18:36 no, i dont have screenshots of arbitrary apps Feb 02 01:18:46 well, i have screenshots of the calendar :) Feb 02 01:18:56 none of the avail calendars are good at all IMHO. Notice that some people actually tried to use the GarnetVM calendar. Feb 02 01:19:09 javispedro: datebk5 is the best calendar :) Feb 02 01:19:15 javispedro: pictures of gpe would be nice Feb 02 01:19:18 unfortunately garnet vm is very unstable for me Feb 02 01:19:21 so i could at least answer xorAxAx 's question Feb 02 01:19:26 timeless_mbp: Having not seen the source code, I don't know how good a starting point it is, but I am guessing the features I might be interested in hacking on would be very, very easy to add. Feb 02 01:19:32 timeless_mbp: why dont you isntall it Feb 02 01:20:06 xorAxAx: because i'm using my n900 as a vpn client Feb 02 01:20:25 timeless_mbp: i dont understand Feb 02 01:20:31 EBUSY Feb 02 01:20:37 How to get an F1 button on dosbox Feb 02 01:20:52 timeless_mbp: does the client disable multitasking? Feb 02 01:21:15 infobot: infobot? Feb 02 01:21:17 rumour has it, infobot is The coolest Feb 02 01:21:27 iPeter-: either read about the dosbox mapper, or use rover.sys Feb 02 01:21:34 xorAxAx: my fingers don't multitask well Feb 02 01:21:38 my eyes slightly better Feb 02 01:22:17 http://gpe.handhelds.org/screenshots/ Feb 02 01:22:22 those date to 2004 Feb 02 01:22:26 hello, could anyone help me with blowfish and xchat or irssi? has anyone been able to get them working ? Feb 02 01:22:26 timeless: http://www.eth0.it/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/gpe_400.jpg http://blogs.tech-recipes.com/shamanstears/files/2008/02/n800_gpecal.png Feb 02 01:22:32 surely someone has something that's <5 years old? Feb 02 01:22:42 rover.sys? Feb 02 01:22:44 javispedro: thanks Feb 02 01:22:50 never used dosbox before Feb 02 01:23:21 iPeter-: rover.sys is a n900 specific thing. search talk.maemo.org for "more" detailed instructions. Feb 02 01:23:41 How's gpe calendar vs nokias? Feb 02 01:23:45 xorAxAx: so, the date nav at the top of javispedro 's picture is obviously bad Feb 02 01:23:54 iPeter-: basically, it's a file you need to download from my site and then edit dosbox.conf to point to it. Feb 02 01:24:00 nokia's approach for date nav, while on its own bad is much better Feb 02 01:24:20 zash: roughly gpe calendar is a normal desktop calendar scaled down Feb 02 01:24:21 that won't work Feb 02 01:24:35 nokia's calendar is a calendar designed from a single view system Feb 02 01:24:40 by people who can't design ui's Feb 02 01:24:44 timeless_mbp: what abut dates Feb 02 01:24:46 which ends up being slightly better Feb 02 01:24:50 but only slightly Feb 02 01:25:03 and not because they're better, but because they had fewer places to make mistakes Feb 02 01:25:05 timeless: you love UI people indeed? =) Feb 02 01:25:13 javispedro: oh, i live aSIMULAtor Feb 02 01:25:18 s/live/love/ Feb 02 01:25:19 timeless_mbp meant: javispedro: oh, i love aSIMULAtor Feb 02 01:25:31 zash: did you look at http://blogs.tech-recipes.com/shamanstears/files/2008/02/n800_gpecal.png Feb 02 01:25:33 hmm ok Feb 02 01:25:42 please note that months should have 3 letters in them, not 2.15 Feb 02 01:25:51 timeless_mbp: :D Feb 02 01:25:56 especially when there's plenty of space for 8 Feb 02 01:26:11 the app title was also stupid Feb 02 01:26:17 "gpe-calendar - Calendar - To..." Feb 02 01:26:24 oh, that improved a bit. Feb 02 01:26:24 but i dont know where my dosbox (z drive) is mounted :E Feb 02 01:26:26 yeah, really helpful to waste the space on Calendar twice Feb 02 01:26:31 timeless_mbp: what about o-hand's dates? Feb 02 01:26:37 zash: picture? Feb 02 01:26:55 iPeter-: you can't write to drive z. you need to mount a C: drive somewhere. Feb 02 01:27:00 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/unlikely_ports] > ;) Feb 02 01:27:11 timeless_mbp: http://www.pimlico-project.org/dates.html Feb 02 01:27:30 "better" Feb 02 01:27:42 does it support American conventions? Feb 02 01:27:54 (no week numbering, am/pm, no leading 0 for hours) Feb 02 01:28:05 (week ranges where there's space and you want to number things) Feb 02 01:28:13 no clue Feb 02 01:28:20 javispedro: Okay, how do i get ~ that symbol Feb 02 01:28:31 iPeter-: blue, sym, ~, space Feb 02 01:28:32 to type mount c /windows Feb 02 01:29:03 timeless_mbp: you live in europe, get with the norm and stop using your stupid american conventions Feb 02 01:29:11 they're archaic and stupid in most cases Feb 02 01:29:13 * timeless_mbp kicks crashanddie Feb 02 01:29:18 Well i got finnish kb layout on my N900 :/ Feb 02 01:29:19 iPeter-: first and foremost, iirc you can't use ~ in the dosbox shell since it won't be expanded to $HOME. Feb 02 01:29:21 * crashanddie counters Feb 02 01:29:28 iPeter-: the path is the same for everyone Feb 02 01:29:30 try it Feb 02 01:29:37 I live in America and I don't use half the American conventions. Feb 02 01:29:52 But on my layout there aint any ~ Feb 02 01:29:52 how Unamerican! Feb 02 01:30:00 iPeter-: did you try the sequence? Feb 02 01:30:05 you press one key, then the next Feb 02 01:30:09 timeless: it won't work, unfortunately. Feb 02 01:30:12 you don't say "oh, i don't see all of them!" Feb 02 01:30:13 Just exercising my Freedom. Feb 02 01:30:16 timeless: because this is SDL/bare Xlib app. Feb 02 01:30:19 I tried, when i press that blue arrow i get a ' Feb 02 01:30:30 javispedro: does clipboard work? :) Feb 02 01:30:45 timeless: between X11 and MS-DOS? =) Feb 02 01:30:50 sure, why not? :) Feb 02 01:31:05 iPeter-: sounds like you're going to want to quit, and edit the conf file Feb 02 01:31:17 actually, trying to link with hildon-input-method somehow is on my long-term ideas to try Feb 02 01:31:28 s/ideas/ideas list Feb 02 01:31:48 http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Dosbox.conf this is perhaps the better way. add the mount and keyb command to your dosbox.con autoexec portion, that way you only have to type the stuff once iPeter- Feb 02 01:31:52 zash: so, is there a package for pimlico? Feb 02 01:31:58 but for now you get to keep the rover.sys kludge, which won't care about your finnish layout and assume US layout. Feb 02 01:31:59 timeless_mbp: Yeah maybe Feb 02 01:32:07 how do i edit it where etc Feb 02 01:32:15 timeless_mbp: http://maemo.o-hand.com/ exists Feb 02 01:32:19 iPeter-: it's on ~/.dosbox/dosbox-0.73.conf Feb 02 01:32:25 timeless_mbp: and i apparently have dates-hildon packages in ubuntu Feb 02 01:32:46 zash: the repository only advertises chinook Feb 02 01:33:39 oddly, it has diablo/ too Feb 02 01:33:40 http://maemo.o-hand.com/packages/ Feb 02 01:33:42 but no fremantle Feb 02 01:33:57 ~ping Feb 02 01:33:58 ~pong Feb 02 01:34:06 What texteditor xterminal does have Feb 02 01:34:12 nano not found Feb 02 01:34:16 i need to get permission for more of the mods in my collection Feb 02 01:34:21 iPeter-: it better have vi or vim Feb 02 01:34:22 "vi" Feb 02 01:34:27 busybox vi. Feb 02 01:34:40 which is, well, interesting. Feb 02 01:35:16 What i have to edit on this conf? Feb 02 01:36:03 you have to put "FORMAT C:" and "FORMAT Z:" under [autoexec] section Feb 02 01:36:29 http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_artist_modules&query=69161 for any of you .mod / s3m folks - this guy is one of the greats 'Reed' Feb 02 01:37:11 iPeter-: put the mount commands there Feb 02 01:37:16 iPeter-: under [autoexec] Feb 02 01:37:29 iPeter-: also put keyb rover.sys us if you already know that rover.sys will be there Feb 02 01:37:37 C:\rover.sys most probably. Feb 02 01:38:38 Question: how useful, compared to the current offerings, would you find an encrypted password storage application that would not require a password to create a new record, but would require a password to view or edit a record, but would never store the records in the clear? Feb 02 01:39:14 Pavel: quite useful. it should also support notetaking Feb 02 01:39:21 and use gpg flatfiles for storage Feb 02 01:39:30 Isn't this what I've been using in my browser for the past decade? Feb 02 01:39:48 wiretapped: That's basically the idea. Feb 02 01:39:48 derf: what have you been using in your browser? Feb 02 01:39:51 you'be been using your browser??? Feb 02 01:40:56 wiretapped: If the password is not given or has expired when the record is created, it is encrypted with the public key, so it can be written, but not read. Feb 02 01:41:27 wiretapped: To read it, one must enter a password to decrypt the private key. Feb 02 01:42:19 I'd also like the option to instead take a pic of the password. Feb 02 01:42:29 but that raises the complexity considerably. Feb 02 01:42:30 Do i put "FORMAT C:" or FORMAT C: Feb 02 01:42:39 It does mean it's much harder to typo though. Feb 02 01:43:47 iPeter-: put the mount command, without quotes. Feb 02 01:44:07 wiretapped: In addition, a key created or "approved" with the password, would be encrypted, then signed. This way, it should be possible to sync the records via an untrusted storage (e.g. an IMAP or file server outside of the user's direct control), and the worst an adversary could do is delete the records. Feb 02 01:45:04 * Pavel has started implementing a program like that, in Python, which may not be the best language for the task, but he doesn't have the time to do it in C. Feb 02 01:45:12 Well i did put: FORMAT C: it says illegal command FORMAT Feb 02 01:46:46 nice.. Feb 02 01:47:30 let's say thank god I knew it would do that Feb 02 01:47:40 Lol :D Feb 02 01:48:01 I tought i could trust with this :D Feb 02 01:48:11 iPeter-: replace it with the mount command Feb 02 01:48:27 MOUNT C:? Feb 02 01:48:37 iPeter-: no, mount c: /home/user/windows Feb 02 01:48:42 ok Feb 02 01:48:49 To autoexec Feb 02 01:48:55 you wanted that path? Feb 02 01:48:57 yes, to autoexec. Feb 02 01:49:01 http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/01/27/upcoming-qtcreator-support-for-qml-or-what-is-bauhaus/ Feb 02 01:49:02 infobot: are you ill? Feb 02 01:50:05 I have to agree with one comment -- QML is much like JavaFX. Whatever that means another nail in JavaFX's coffin or a new nail in Qt's coffin is yet to be seen. Feb 02 01:50:21 well, or at least _reads_ like JavaFX. Feb 02 01:51:42 Directory /home/ser/windoes doesn't exit Feb 02 01:51:45 Pavel: that sounds great! especially that it is in Python, imo :) Feb 02 01:51:46 exsist Feb 02 01:51:57 exist Feb 02 01:52:02 iPeter-: you have to create it, of course. Feb 02 01:52:06 wiretapped: Actually, the "Python" part is not great at all. Feb 02 01:52:07 argh Feb 02 01:52:09 :E Feb 02 01:52:17 look Feb 02 01:52:30 create it under mydocs, /home/user/MyDocs/windows Feb 02 01:53:01 Ok done Feb 02 01:53:02 wiretapped: Without being able to lock pages, your password, while it's kept in memory, might get swapped to disk. Feb 02 01:53:30 wiretapped: Also, you can never guarantee that your process has ever well and truly "forgotten" the password. Feb 02 01:54:13 wiretapped: A better solution might be a set of C subroutines that do password handling and only that. Feb 02 01:54:24 cryptoswap helps some Feb 02 01:55:18 SpeedEvil: Does it just create a loopback device on an encrypted FS? Feb 02 01:55:32 SpeedEvil: On N900? Feb 02 01:55:43 javispedro: How do i find mydocs from my PC, to insert that rover.sys there Feb 02 01:56:03 iPeter-: when you connect the N900 via USB, MyDocs is the root folder. Feb 02 01:56:10 Pavel: yeah... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/dev/695301 Feb 02 01:56:31 If I don't abandon this project due to lack of time, I will first get it working on my Debian box, then try to develop an N900 frontend and intelligent sync capabilities. Feb 02 01:56:35 SpeedEvil: have you done crypto swap on N900? Feb 02 01:56:39 Pavel: you can't with the default kernel. Feb 02 01:56:54 With j???a's kernel - AIUI it should be quite possible. Feb 02 01:56:56 SpeedEvil: Really? I am surprised. Feb 02 01:57:01 On mass storage mode javispedro ? Feb 02 01:57:08 iPeter-: yes. Feb 02 01:57:08 or building your own Feb 02 01:57:18 SpeedEvil: You can't use a loopback for swap? Feb 02 01:57:45 the cryptoloop module is not by default there Feb 02 01:57:52 Odd i can not find my newly created windows folder Feb 02 01:57:56 Oh, on N900. Feb 02 01:59:27 eek i rebooted my n900 and it shows on the botton in txt installing software update, please do not interrupt, and it seems to be hung at 0% Feb 02 01:59:28 The problem is that I am an amateur when it comes to cryptography, so while I try to leverage GnuPG as much as possible, I shouldn't really be doing this. Feb 02 01:59:56 wiretapped: I know, I saw that post. Feb 02 02:00:17 javispedro: I cant find my newly created windows folder Feb 02 02:00:24 When im seeking it with pc Feb 02 02:00:39 is this really bad? Feb 02 02:00:41 iPeter-: well, dunno what you did. Feb 02 02:01:02 how do i remove folder Feb 02 02:01:47 Pavel: how are you interfacing with gpg? Feb 02 02:02:12 wiretapped: Python->pyme->GPGME. Feb 02 02:02:39 wiretapped: It's a little tedious, but doing it all in C would have been even more so. Feb 02 02:02:43 is there a way to bypass this? it won't boot now Feb 02 02:02:45 iPeter-: you're not running dosbox with it connected to pc, are you? Feb 02 02:02:47 i see pyme is no longer maintained :( Feb 02 02:03:01 god damnit Feb 02 02:03:11 :D Feb 02 02:03:14 yup :D Feb 02 02:03:20 i was Feb 02 02:03:25 heh Feb 02 02:03:26 also I've found myself "browsing Gopher through a Web interface right now" Feb 02 02:03:30 will be unsynched then Feb 02 02:03:49 ColdFyre: flash it? Feb 02 02:04:06 flashing will result in me losing everything Feb 02 02:04:10 nope. Feb 02 02:04:11 Ill reboot the device Feb 02 02:04:12 :E Feb 02 02:04:30 It results in you losing apps, and not much more Feb 02 02:04:36 if you just flash the no-mmc image Feb 02 02:04:43 wiretapped: On the other hand, if, by some miracle, I write the Linux version, and I (or someone else) write the N900 frontend (backend should be directly portable), it'll never run on Android (wrong language(s)), which is sad. Feb 02 02:04:54 it does not overwrite /home/user or Mydocs Feb 02 02:05:55 Pavel: but if you wrote it for android it wouldn't work anywhere else Feb 02 02:05:58 so it is android that is sad Feb 02 02:06:20 although, at least it would work on dozens of android devices... Feb 02 02:06:24 write it for SNES - then anything with an emulator can use it. Feb 02 02:06:34 wiretapped: Depends. If you stuck to the right APIs, it should be source-compatible with Javas, right? Feb 02 02:06:37 (wth kind of joke OS only runs on one vendor's hardware???) Feb 02 02:06:41 SpeedEvil: Brilliant! Feb 02 02:06:55 before i resort to flashing, hildon-package-manager had hung and i had to kill -9 during some install, there is no way to boot into single user mode or anything? Feb 02 02:06:55 i don't know about that. Feb 02 02:07:11 wiretapped: maemo? Feb 02 02:07:43 but single platform OSs arn't uncommon. Feb 02 02:07:47 Pavel: fwiw http://code.google.com/p/python-gnupg/ has been recently updated Feb 02 02:08:17 wiretapped: I think it's even worse: it's an OS that will run on only one _device_, assuming the next N[0-9]{3} uses Maemo 6. Feb 02 02:08:20 SpeedEvil: yeah maemo was what I was referring to Feb 02 02:08:54 yep, as a 770 and N800 user I know all too well Feb 02 02:09:01 wiretapped: And, assuming there is no upgrade for N900 --- if there is, then Maemo 5 simply becomes an obsolete OS. Feb 02 02:09:28 wiretapped: As opposed to a joke OS, which is still needed, but unsupported. Feb 02 02:10:23 That, to me, is the main reason I am still considering exercising Amazon's return policy and sending the darned thing back... Feb 02 02:11:14 :/ Feb 02 02:11:20 Keybard file rover.sys not found Feb 02 02:11:20 hmm Feb 02 02:12:08 wiretapped: The thing is, I've already written all most all of the storage backend, so even if python-gnupg is easier to work with than python-pyme, there is no point. Feb 02 02:12:13 Pavel: How long do you expect an OS to be current and supported? Feb 02 02:12:31 nothing Feb 02 02:12:36 zerojay: Depending on the definition of "OS". Feb 02 02:12:51 zerojay: how long do you expect a computer to be able to run the latest version of the OS it shipped with? Feb 02 02:12:52 Pavel: How long are you expecting them to support Maemo 5 on the N900 then? Feb 02 02:13:07 the 770 was EOL'd after 14 months Feb 02 02:13:12 wiretapped: Big difference. You can upgrade the components of a computer. Feb 02 02:13:22 wiretapped: Uh-huh... and....? Feb 02 02:13:29 nokia and its retailers describe the N900 as a computer Feb 02 02:13:40 Well, that's splitting hairs. Feb 02 02:13:59 you can also install current OSes on many-years-old computers Feb 02 02:14:00 zerojay: gl with upgrading laptops Feb 02 02:14:00 How long do you expect them to support the N900 with Maemo 5? Feb 02 02:14:16 Don't dance around the question. Feb 02 02:14:20 Answer it, straight up. Feb 02 02:14:37 zerojay: if nokia ships an update for the N900 12 months from now, I'd say we can count ourselves lucky Feb 02 02:15:01 Wohoo got kb layout to work (: Feb 02 02:15:09 zerojay: Actually, I'd rather see them to offer Maemo 6 on the N900. Feb 02 02:15:21 wiretapped: And if they don't, it would still be supported longer than the average cell phone. Feb 02 02:15:44 zerojay: it isn't the average cell phone. It comes with an X-Terminal preinstalled and is marketed to people who know what one is. Feb 02 02:15:59 wiretapped: So it shouldn't matter how long they support it then, hmm? Feb 02 02:16:29 Since it's marketed to people who know what an X-Terminal is, they can help provide community updates, like what has happened in the past. Feb 02 02:16:46 well, i bought it, knowing full well that nokia is all about planned obsolescence Feb 02 02:17:00 Except that since the N900 has most likely sold WAY more than previous tablets, there's going to be a lot more people looking for continued updates and supports. Feb 02 02:17:01 it's not like the OS breaks after 12 months Feb 02 02:17:05 support updates. Feb 02 02:17:08 it's NOT a BOX of EGGS Feb 02 02:17:09 heho Feb 02 02:17:42 So even if Nokia drops everything RIGHT NOW... there's no way your N900 would be suddenly rendered useless. Feb 02 02:17:47 bingo Feb 02 02:18:05 And you can bet there would already be a huge amount of support for a community based distro or community based updates. Feb 02 02:18:09 I think it's probably got critical mass of some sort now. Feb 02 02:18:12 Far more than the previous ones. Feb 02 02:18:16 Far more developers. Feb 02 02:18:18 Far more users. Feb 02 02:18:22 Far more mind share. Feb 02 02:18:26 If it's not actually discontinued now - considerably more than critical mass Feb 02 02:18:36 far more egg boxes Feb 02 02:18:37 So I wouldn't worry too much. Feb 02 02:19:00 The N900 will be alive and kicking for a long time to come, even if Nokia's drop dead is tomorrow. Feb 02 02:19:07 And it's not. Feb 02 02:19:16 There are issues. Feb 02 02:19:29 the integration of the modem complicates things Feb 02 02:19:30 For example - skype and flash might be hard to push without nokia Feb 02 02:19:55 and if there are hardware bugs - say the modem has a 2012 bug... Feb 02 02:20:47 Well, it's not like we haven't received some help with stuff long after EOL for a platform. Feb 02 02:20:54 yeah. Feb 02 02:21:06 say there is a widely-exploited vuln in flash... Feb 02 02:21:13 we're up shit creek Feb 02 02:21:22 No. Feb 02 02:21:47 thou shalt not use flash. repeat ad inf. Feb 02 02:21:54 where do we get a new armel flash binary compiled for our community-supported post-nokia OS? Feb 02 02:21:56 The only way we're up shit creek is if Adobe refuses to publish an update. Feb 02 02:22:14 wiretapped: Then we'll just have to hope that it doesn't work on ARM. ;) Feb 02 02:22:22 We'll do what we've done before, push Nokia to make it happen. Feb 02 02:22:38 They've shown in the past that they're more than willing to help in these cases. Feb 02 02:22:52 Doesn't always pan out, but they do their best to help out. Feb 02 02:23:03 Such as with the 3d drivers for the N810. Feb 02 02:23:07 chrooted flash might help in some aspects Feb 02 02:23:09 zerojay: they're less than willing to open a lot of stuff. Feb 02 02:23:23 wiretapped: Uh.. where do you get that from? Feb 02 02:23:26 the open wifi for 770 is still far inferior to the closed driver, right? Feb 02 02:23:45 the power mgmnt stuff remains closed Feb 02 02:23:48 wiretapped: Ever worked in embedded devices before? Feb 02 02:23:50 all sorts of essential little bits Feb 02 02:24:09 Nokia doesn't get that choice. Feb 02 02:24:52 They really want to put out a fully open device in every way possible, but just as open source is new for Nokia, it's completely in its infancy for hardware providers. Feb 02 02:25:14 There are times when the ball's just not in Nokia's court. Doesn't mean they don't want to open it. Feb 02 02:25:43 SpeedEvil: the RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin won't result in me losing *, or will? Feb 02 02:25:59 And before you say "find manufacturers that will"... there's not really any. Feb 02 02:26:03 As I recall it there was a smaller image, and a larger one. Feb 02 02:26:13 ColdFyre: It was documented somewhere on the wiki Feb 02 02:26:16 ~flashing Feb 02 02:26:17 from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 02 02:26:24 yeah, i oculd not find it Feb 02 02:26:24 HA HA HA ha *cries* Feb 02 02:26:35 zerojay: you really believe that Feb 02 02:26:39 "really want to put out a fully open device in every way possible," ??? Feb 02 02:26:51 wiretapped: what does being closed get Nokia? Feb 02 02:26:53 wiretapped: stop trolling Feb 02 02:26:54 wiretapped: Yes, I do. Feb 02 02:26:59 conspiracy! Feb 02 02:27:08 conspiracy! dealbreaker! Feb 02 02:27:12 us vs them! Feb 02 02:27:20 microlith: lack of difficult negotiations with makers. Feb 02 02:27:22 wiretapped: Maybe when you get to talk to the people that make them and you see the passion they have for this... you'd see they want it just as much as we do. Feb 02 02:27:23 look at http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture Feb 02 02:27:35 zerojay: I know many developers at nokia do want this. Feb 02 02:27:36 that us vs them conspirationist feeling tends to disappear after you chit chat with "them" for a while. Feb 02 02:27:40 But their managers definitely don't Feb 02 02:27:45 wiretapped: There's just times when it just can't happen. Feb 02 02:27:47 besides, every organization is made up of > 1 person, with > 1 opinion... Feb 02 02:28:05 zerojay: I can believe there are licensing issues for the 770's wifi. Feb 02 02:28:14 zerojay: I cannot believe nokia couldn't have released libaccounts Feb 02 02:28:19 or rtcom-eventlogger Feb 02 02:28:24 or liblocation Feb 02 02:28:26 wiretapped: After the N900 was a surprise hit, you can bet that more of those managers are sitting up and taking notice. Feb 02 02:28:27 or libsharing Feb 02 02:28:33 or tablet-browser-ui Feb 02 02:28:33 or calendar-backend Feb 02 02:28:45 valid points there i'm sure Feb 02 02:28:52 Releasing stuff as open source isn't as simple as uploading a tarball, you know. Feb 02 02:28:55 so far everything I've wanted to modify on N900 has been closed Feb 02 02:28:56 wiretapped: stop using enter as punctuation Feb 02 02:29:01 liblocation "contains patented nokia über technology" though. Feb 02 02:29:04 I have big SMS problems I could probably fix in the eventlogger Feb 02 02:29:13 Some of those closed portions are simply closed as a matter of "we don't have the time". Feb 02 02:29:35 wiretapped: liblocation is in many ways - as I understand it a wrapper to code running on the modem Feb 02 02:29:41 Everything Nokia releases into the wild has to go through tons of legal crap first. Feb 02 02:29:50 TONS. Feb 02 02:29:51 wiretapped: that code is almost certainly IP of TI. Feb 02 02:30:09 That's the main reason why we don't have weekly public releases. Feb 02 02:30:20 The heavy lifting goes on in the modem. Feb 02 02:30:51 That's part of the reason why not everything's open... but as they go further into Maemo 5's lifecycle, we'll probably see a few more components get opened. Feb 02 02:30:58 Just like on the 770 and N800 and N810. Feb 02 02:31:09 Won't be everything. Feb 02 02:31:13 there's a good chance they would have to wrap all the native calls to private APIs, as they're not at liberty to release it Feb 02 02:31:14 Or flat out replaced. Feb 02 02:31:14 zerojay: why a closed OGG package, for instance? Feb 02 02:31:15 But each step gets closer. Feb 02 02:31:30 jebba: Nokia's not convinced OGG is unencumbered. Feb 02 02:31:52 so having it closed does what? they still distribute it. What's the difference? Feb 02 02:32:03 Nokia can't just show sources where it calls makePhoneCall() from the modem API Feb 02 02:32:09 zerojay: why did nokia ship ogg on the n900 then (in the maps program)? Feb 02 02:32:23 is maps open? Feb 02 02:32:27 no Feb 02 02:32:28 Nope. Feb 02 02:32:31 crashanddie: what can't is show sources there? Feb 02 02:32:39 nokia is not convinced ogg is not a threat to their MPEG royalties Feb 02 02:32:47 ?! Feb 02 02:32:51 it's true. Feb 02 02:32:56 I can hardly blame them for that. Feb 02 02:33:05 well, then why are they shipping ogg? Feb 02 02:33:08 How does Nokia get royalties on MPEG? Feb 02 02:33:12 ? Feb 02 02:33:16 superflous comment about lawyers is superfluous Feb 02 02:33:20 zerojay: Nokia is one of the creators of AAC. Feb 02 02:33:22 jebba: because the way my company works, we get access to specific APIs from vendors, but we're not at liberty to tell everyone how that API works... If we give away source code that shows how we call a specific library, we're shooting ourselves in the foot Feb 02 02:33:37 submarine patents are a red herring... nokia is anti-ogg, except when it benefits them, which proves they're not afraid of it being patented Feb 02 02:33:44 crashanddie: ty. didn't realize that Feb 02 02:33:55 wiretapped: Except when they can license it, you mean. Feb 02 02:33:57 crashanddie: ya, but that isn't the case here. It's not an API. Feb 02 02:34:13 jebba: they're still using specific subroutines of specific hardware Feb 02 02:34:13 zerojay: who did they license it from? Feb 02 02:34:25 jebba: it's not just *their* code Feb 02 02:34:28 wiretapped: I didn't write it, so I don't know. Feb 02 02:34:32 jebba: the case is as wiretapped commented. Nokia made AAC. I guess they consider "OGG as common user-visible audio format" a threat. Feb 02 02:34:41 also, that's going to change btw. Feb 02 02:34:46 Harmattan has OGG out of the box. Feb 02 02:34:58 So they can't see it as much of a threat then, hmm? Feb 02 02:35:01 crashanddie: they took the ogg code from the public, they didnt start from scratch. Then they added their proprietary bits and closed it. Feb 02 02:35:01 s/ogg/vorbis/ Feb 02 02:35:17 javispedro: Can you help me, got problem with mounting the image Feb 02 02:35:27 iPeter-: what problem? Feb 02 02:35:28 jebba: my company released some code, we had to wrap every single call to access a specific device (an HSM in this case) into a library that we wrote... And what it did was... libfoo::initHSM() { manafucaturerlib::initHSM(getParams()) } Feb 02 02:35:35 I just cant do it right Feb 02 02:35:58 crashanddie: i dont see how that is relevant to ogg. anyway. Feb 02 02:36:01 jebba: do we have proof of that? Feb 02 02:36:10 zerojay: I guess that managers "listen" after a few years complaining after all :) Feb 02 02:36:16 jebba: sorry, I didn't catch up to where you guys were Feb 02 02:36:32 jebba: I was more replying to wiretapped's trolling about all the libs they didn't open Feb 02 02:36:57 javispedro: Some, sure. Feb 02 02:37:29 javispedro: I got now mounted that c drive to that windows folder. that windows folder contains now a image of windows, name for it is windows_3.1.iso Feb 02 02:37:31 how do i moun tit Feb 02 02:38:00 iPeter-: I unfortunately do not know the syntax of all dosbox shell commands by hearth. I suggest you look at the dosbox wiki. Feb 02 02:38:23 in fact I think I gave you a link to the imgmount command man page an hour ago... Feb 02 02:38:24 javispedro: what a very nice way of saying RTFM Feb 02 02:38:39 javispedro: Yes, but still cant get it to work :S Feb 02 02:38:40 http://www.google.com/trends?q=sad <--- nokia's fault Feb 02 02:38:56 lol Feb 02 02:39:09 iPeter-: and what's the error message? Feb 02 02:39:09 wiretapped: seriously, take it outside Feb 02 02:39:28 it was something it cant find from host or local Feb 02 02:39:28 wait Feb 02 02:40:26 learn something new everyday.. i didn't know you can mount .iso's in dosbox... Feb 02 02:40:54 well I think you can. I never tried actually. Feb 02 02:40:57 and be sure to thank the dosbox devs for rewriting the sound blaster emulation to be faster for us Feb 02 02:41:33 I am waiting for 0.74 since I have this feeling I messed up when backporting the ARM recompiler. Feb 02 02:41:49 but installing win3.1 in dosbox.. what's the use for that? why purposefully install a virus on your phone ? :) Feb 02 02:41:55 heh i think so too maybe Feb 02 02:42:06 Z:\> imgmount d "C:\windows_3.1.iso" -t iso Feb 02 02:42:12 The image must be on a host or local drive Feb 02 02:42:40 i think lardman is the only guy in community who got anywhere with DSP coding Feb 02 02:43:01 iPeter-: try moving to C: drive before, "C:" Feb 02 02:43:13 then rewrite that command as "imgmout d windows_3.1.iso -t iso" Feb 02 02:43:31 hm Feb 02 02:43:52 Same error on C:\> Feb 02 02:43:58 sorry, "worldwide traffic of sad" just makes me giggle Feb 02 02:44:39 iPeter-: is the image there? Feb 02 02:44:39 peter: is the iso itself mountable from the linux prompt ? Feb 02 02:45:21 mount -t iso9660 -o loop windows_3_1.iso /mnt/windoze Feb 02 02:45:34 so at least you know if the image is good Feb 02 02:46:04 The image is on /home/user/MyDocs/windows/ Feb 02 02:46:12 and C is mounted to that patch, right? Feb 02 02:46:36 dir c: ? Feb 02 02:46:38 is it there ? Feb 02 02:46:39 By the way, we keep talking about N900 critical mass --- does anyone know how much they've sold? Feb 02 02:46:49 I am not debating, just curious about a number. Feb 02 02:47:00 WINDOW~1 ISO Feb 02 02:47:17 So yes, it is there Scummer.. Mhph. Feb 02 02:47:18 try imgmount d window~1.iso -t iso then Feb 02 02:47:37 sigh. Feb 02 02:47:41 maybe it doesn't understand more than 8 char ? Feb 02 02:47:45 it's dos afterall Feb 02 02:47:50 it should. Feb 02 02:47:59 *shrug* Feb 02 02:48:18 ... though I'd give it a try too. Feb 02 02:48:41 i mean.. i don't know... i don't know whatelse could work Feb 02 02:48:48 easier to rename that img to "lol" than find ~ char Feb 02 02:48:58 symbols ? Feb 02 02:49:48 yr Feb 02 02:49:53 ye Feb 02 02:49:58 hmm Feb 02 02:49:59 http://www.google.com/trends?q=cthulhu Feb 02 02:50:08 1. Helsinki, Finland Feb 02 02:50:12 ~cthulhu++ Feb 02 02:50:14 I'm sure this makes sense Feb 02 02:50:38 sense is cthulhu's second name. Feb 02 02:50:55 lul, i live on there :p Feb 02 02:50:57 if there's any interest in a demoparty, breakpoint 2010 will be the last one. Bingen, Germany, easter wknd 2010 http://breakpoint.untergrund.net/ Feb 02 02:51:29 sooo.. anyone tried to install OS X and wait the 2 hours for the boot up time? hehe Feb 02 02:52:16 i could even host ppl Feb 02 02:53:25 flights to germany have gotten expensive :/ Feb 02 02:54:03 yeah, was a lot cheaper when everyone was sent there by train Feb 02 02:54:46 *sigh* good times Feb 02 02:55:09 Hey, that's not funny, my grandpa died in a concentration camp. Feb 02 02:55:21 fell from one of the watchtowers? Feb 02 02:55:23 He fell out of the guardtower, broke his neck. Feb 02 02:55:24 DAMN YOU Feb 02 02:55:40 crashanddie: crashanddie Feb 02 02:55:41 too old to rock'n roll Feb 02 02:55:49 http://www.google.com/trends?q=h1n1%2C%22iphone+3gs%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=1 - a clear correlation! Feb 02 02:56:06 wiretapped: may I suggest you stop being a bitter idiot? Feb 02 02:56:25 crashanddie: you may Feb 02 02:56:52 http://www.google.com/trends?q=hitler%2Cnazis%2C%22iphone+3gs%22%2C%22crashanddie%22%2C%22wiretapped%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=1 Feb 02 02:57:00 beautiful demos from 2009.. check 'Elevated' by RGBA and TBC Feb 02 02:57:15 the nicest thing is that "1. Barcelona, Spain". Feb 02 02:58:05 http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22global+warming%22%2Cpirates&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=1 ...oh man, they were right all along! Feb 02 02:58:17 Summer: you was right i renamed to lol and it worked Feb 02 02:58:28 doh Feb 02 02:59:00 scummer, summer, what's the difference Feb 02 02:59:12 javispedro: I'm sure Barcelona came in first because of the Maemo long weekend over there :P Feb 02 02:59:15 i like summer... Feb 02 02:59:19 heh Feb 02 02:59:23 :) Feb 02 02:59:40 crashanddie: I though it had more to do with nazis, but yours makes much more sense =) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 02 02:59:58 2010