**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 03 02:59:56 2010 Feb 03 03:00:58 anyone who doesn't mind kindly compiling the mesa-utils package want to tell me what they see for a framerate? Feb 03 03:01:18 I don't mind. Feb 03 03:01:23 i can't - but i don't mind. Feb 03 03:01:45 I wish I had thought of this before I Started making the gles wrapper Feb 03 03:02:04 so now I have no idea if its even faster at all Feb 03 03:02:06 jsut untar a fresh tree surely? Feb 03 03:02:19 not that simple speed Feb 03 03:02:26 k Feb 03 03:02:29 Im modifying the actual GL headers Feb 03 03:02:37 i mean a fresh lot of headers Feb 03 03:02:49 the gl headers in /usr/include/GL Feb 03 03:03:46 check youtube kamui__ Feb 03 03:08:44 wow Feb 03 03:08:48 my N810 is HOT Feb 03 03:08:50 and CPU is IDLE Feb 03 03:08:53 wtf? Feb 03 03:09:00 check battery\ Feb 03 03:09:05 ? Feb 03 03:09:24 pupnik, I did already, didn't see anything Feb 03 03:11:19 ok got removed - http://www.youtube.com/user/unique311#p/u unique311 had it Feb 03 03:11:58 just saw a chicks butt Feb 03 03:12:00 nice too Feb 03 03:21:39 yes, check battery Feb 03 03:21:49 happened to mine too Feb 03 03:22:05 dpkg builder question: "dpkg-genchanges: warning: package XYZ in control file but not in files list" what does that mean ? (sorry google full of questions not answers) Feb 03 03:23:04 Battery, wifi or bluetooth.. Feb 03 03:23:54 battery didn't seem significantly hotter than the rest Feb 03 03:23:57 but I pulled it Feb 03 03:24:11 curiously, it was hot enough to melt the ink covering the battery's serial number Feb 03 03:27:06 the airline ticket round trip to brussels is 36 euro. the TAXES are 100 euro. the airport fees are another 30 euro... Feb 03 03:33:50 the taxes and fees are 400% of the price? Feb 03 03:35:19 Sounds stereotypically European. Too stereotypically European... Feb 03 03:36:51 Taxes and fees are an increasing proprotion of the ticket price with the reduction in seat prices. Feb 03 03:38:26 Someones gotta pay for the security to make sure no one blows you up with their shoes. Feb 03 03:39:13 And to remove any containers of over 100ml. Feb 03 03:39:28 Neglecting that someone serious about it can conceal a 2l bottle. Feb 03 03:40:01 the security guys in germany took my leather man.... even the knife blade was broken :( Feb 03 03:46:29 i wonder if cucumbers wrapped in tinfoil are allowed Feb 03 03:47:59 they're supposedly obliged to display the price including unavoidable fees Feb 03 03:48:18 SpeedEvil: "Saline". Feb 03 03:48:30 swhats up? Feb 03 03:48:58 yes, new rules - no hidden add-on-costs. that's not a problem. the fun part is seeing how much goes to taxes and how little goes to the poor airline Feb 03 03:49:28 hah found another one where swissair makes 13 euro for schlepping me 400 km Feb 03 03:49:50 :D Feb 03 03:50:31 and they are still cheaper than the subsidized trains... lol Feb 03 03:50:57 sorry Feb 03 03:51:32 just ordered a n900 =D Feb 03 03:51:41 cumgrats Feb 03 03:51:50 ugh, getting mmap: permission denied errors during hal scratchbox installation Feb 03 03:51:52 cumgrats? Feb 03 03:52:17 yes. cumgrats. Feb 03 03:52:43 should i be scared? haha Feb 03 03:52:53 im dloading the sdk vm now Feb 03 03:54:12 kamui__: regardless, 22fps in glxgears is not good. i seem to recall the mesa version getting about 2 fps on n800 though Feb 03 03:54:24 pupnik Feb 03 03:54:30 its a software implementation only Feb 03 03:54:33 thats why I was checking Feb 03 03:54:35 oh Feb 03 03:54:41 nice then Feb 03 03:54:50 it would suffice for blender if the normal result was what I heard which was rumored at like 5fps Feb 03 03:55:05 ah i was wrong Feb 03 03:55:20 Blender on N900? Feb 03 03:55:22 "I get about 10 fps using the Mesa Software Rasterizer. " Feb 03 03:55:27 http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/2587752983/ Feb 03 03:55:36 pupnick, N900? Feb 03 03:55:46 dracflamloc: A little. Feb 03 03:55:47 800 Feb 03 03:55:51 shit Feb 03 03:56:07 so I might not be getting any enhancement Feb 03 03:56:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=452331&postcount=397 check that one too Feb 03 03:58:55 http://www.beagleboard.org/irclogs/index.php?date=2010-01-08 another google hit Feb 03 04:00:50 so, in peoples opinions, what do you think the n900 lacks in software that could be made by a community devevlop? Feb 03 04:01:27 Ships and shoes and sealing wax, cabbages and kings. Feb 03 04:02:14 I want a flashlight app that goes on when you flip the lenscover open when the camera is pointing down. Feb 03 04:02:33 what for? Feb 03 04:02:42 dracflamloc_: AR :D Feb 03 04:02:57 Because it's an easy way to differentiate between wanting camera and light Feb 03 04:03:16 ah Feb 03 04:03:20 and it doens't involve stuff like flipping the camera open-closed-open Feb 03 04:03:27 or using any controls Feb 03 04:03:34 SpeedEvil: does the lenscover cover the light too? Feb 03 04:03:37 yes Feb 03 04:03:39 o Feb 03 04:03:40 regrettably Feb 03 04:04:00 it could be modded with a little bit of transparent plastic if drilled Feb 03 04:04:05 but that isn't really easy Feb 03 04:04:17 actually - yes it is Feb 03 04:06:25 transparent plastic is a very nice idea Feb 03 04:06:38 it would even look more like a flashlight possibly :p Feb 03 04:07:31 luke-jr, AR? Feb 03 04:07:39 dracflamloc_: Augmented Reality Feb 03 04:07:44 SpeedEvil, Are you sure the flash LEDs can remain constantly illuminated without being damaged? Feb 03 04:07:45 ah Feb 03 04:07:51 that'd be a fun project Feb 03 04:08:59 Ken-Young: look at the driver source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement - linked off Feb 03 04:09:04 err Feb 03 04:09:06 not that Feb 03 04:09:12 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Flash_Torch Feb 03 04:09:33 The flashlight intensity is 1/7th of the flash intensity Feb 03 04:11:18 SpeedEvil, At 1/7th, is it still brighter than the backlight LEDs? Feb 03 04:12:13 much Feb 03 04:12:22 maybe 500*? Feb 03 04:12:42 Wow, I would not have guessed that. Feb 03 04:13:27 ~30 lumens vs well under one. Feb 03 04:13:50 I can't find batteries for my light meter - or I'd have measured it Feb 03 04:20:45 SpeedEvil: In the long run, the first link is more important. Feb 03 04:21:06 yes Feb 03 04:21:21 but it does not directly address the question of flash LED maximum currents. Feb 03 04:22:41 That's why the agreement will never be ratified. Feb 03 04:25:25 Debian Etch rebuilt: Feb 03 04:25:25 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43188 Feb 03 04:30:48 <|R> http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/29/vote-for-the-2009-engadget-awards <- n900 Feb 03 04:34:13 hmm, getting beat by even the palm pre. Feb 03 04:35:30 it probably mirrors sales %s pretty well Feb 03 04:37:59 does anyone knows when will video chat be released? Feb 03 04:38:21 I saw mention in talk.maemo.org that video chat works with google talk Feb 03 04:38:25 Guest8472: it seems like it's pretty much there, just missing a few interface tweaks. Feb 03 04:38:45 i saw it on youtube Feb 03 04:38:47 greenfly: ya, but the google talk person (or any XMPP jabber) must initiate the video call. So you can't do N900 to N900 Feb 03 04:38:51 a video chat with gtalk Feb 03 04:39:01 ahh Feb 03 04:39:12 yup Feb 03 04:39:18 that's right Feb 03 04:39:53 jebba> Debian Etch rebuilt: ... how much space did that take? Feb 03 04:40:13 but i'm asking about the release that makes n900 makes video calls by itself Feb 03 04:46:29 i thought we'd have video calls long, long ago. atm i upload video to show people stuff. Feb 03 04:47:56 interesting, i got a red exclemetion point in the status bar :) Feb 03 04:48:04 my homemade CyborgEye program can also activate the flash torch... I'm hoping I'll be able to make it into some AR-style app over the next few months Feb 03 04:48:38 how about initiating video recording on double-tap Feb 03 04:49:00 currently reading some books about machine learning, computer vision, and stuff Feb 03 04:49:19 and yet there are such simple useful things that need making Feb 03 04:49:33 like being able to initiate a video recording for your own security Feb 03 04:49:46 without obviously fumbling with a camera Feb 03 04:50:07 you'd have to open the camera cover, wouldn't you? Feb 03 04:50:14 or you plan to have it open constantly? Feb 03 04:50:18 open Feb 03 04:50:23 |R: will you get me one if i do? :P Feb 03 04:50:26 upon leaving house Feb 03 04:50:58 swc|666: 10G Feb 03 04:51:00 camera peeks above the edge of my vest pocket Feb 03 04:51:12 and what do you mean by doubletap? hitting the touchscreen on some app? Feb 03 04:51:25 double tapping vest/device Feb 03 04:51:40 on the touchscreen? Feb 03 04:51:46 no, accelerometer Feb 03 04:52:01 initiate recording without taking device out of pocket Feb 03 04:52:42 the accelerometer kernel driver doesn't support interrupts from the device, so it would have to be constantly polling to catch something like that Feb 03 04:53:25 xorAxAx seemed to think differently Feb 03 04:53:27 would keep the cpu running Feb 03 04:53:46 * mtd fixes scratchbox F12 mmap errors by putting stupidly high value in vm.mmap_min_addr ...nice. Feb 03 04:54:25 is he going to fix the driver then? or how would he do something the driver won't let him do? Feb 03 04:54:30 it would certainly be preferable to generate an event/signal/interrupt without cpu polling Feb 03 05:00:17 hmm, checking the driver source for the newest kernel, it seems to enable interrupts for something actually Feb 03 05:00:39 are you all talking in private here? Feb 03 05:01:11 Guest8472: yes; so are you: we can't see your question\ Feb 03 05:01:14 ah cool. With my debian etch repository, maemo now has over 10,000 "apps" ;) Feb 03 05:02:17 Guest8472: this is a public channel, and everything is logged on a public server Feb 03 05:02:33 jebba, thats impressive ;) Feb 03 05:02:36 whatever Feb 03 05:02:40 i just ask in general Feb 03 05:02:41 X and Y axis gets interrupts enabled, but not Z Feb 03 05:03:15 Guest8472: I don't understand the question, even though I'm a very advanced artificial intelligence Feb 03 05:04:08 I`m more advanceder than thou Feb 03 05:04:45 jebba: Via debian chroot? Feb 03 05:04:46 is that a challenge, peon? Feb 03 05:05:14 urgh Feb 03 05:05:31 my n900 ate 40 percent battery in 1.5 hours Feb 03 05:05:50 I hope ifconfig wlan0 down fixed it Feb 03 05:06:10 jebba, so what kind of programs will run on the n900, any that support its small screen resolution? Feb 03 05:06:23 dracflamloc_: 800x480 Feb 03 05:06:30 dracflamloc_: but that really has nothing to do with it Feb 03 05:06:49 right, i mean small relative to full displays Feb 03 05:06:49 dracflamloc_: small? N900 has better than VGA! Feb 03 05:06:54 dracflamloc_: most applications are able to automatically resize, however content disposition might not be ideal Feb 03 05:07:15 haha Feb 03 05:07:22 sorry i wasnt insulting the n900's res ;) Feb 03 05:07:29 dracflamloc_: try to imagine having a screen laid out on a business card, that's pretty much the ratio Feb 03 05:07:40 well, bigger than a business card, but I just mean the format Feb 03 05:07:47 i was just referring to games that are meant for 800x600, for example Feb 03 05:07:48 eh Feb 03 05:07:53 aren't business cards usually 300 DPI? Feb 03 05:07:58 ... Feb 03 05:08:06 luke-jr: stop trolling, or take my foot up your arse Feb 03 05:08:10 lol Feb 03 05:08:13 ... Feb 03 05:08:44 dracflamloc_: as I said, most games/apps are able to resize towards a proper resolution Feb 03 05:08:45 regular PC/linux apps often assume more than 800x480, so the question translates to "yes, although you can run a bunch of gtk/qt apps almost unmodified, their layout will be broken" Feb 03 05:08:48 @ dracflamloc_ Feb 03 05:08:52 specifically that debian archive grabbed my attention since it contains battle for wesnoth, which is a pretty welldone tbs Feb 03 05:09:09 dracflamloc_: it's the same as with Quake 3, it runs fine on the N900, you just need to configure it to render things at 800x480 Feb 03 05:09:16 Pavel: done with sbdmock/maemo SDK which does it in chroots. Feb 03 05:09:20 and would play very well on a n900 like device Feb 03 05:09:54 i found all the FPS games to be not-very-fun on the small screen Feb 03 05:09:56 dracflamloc_: same as when you connect a widescreen to a computer, you need to tell the game to render in widescreen mode Feb 03 05:10:17 pupnik: you suck with a keyboard and mouse, and you were expecting to enjoy yourself with the touchscreen ;) Feb 03 05:10:24 dracflamloc_: well, the screen isn't *that* small. I got gqview working happily, for example (though it definitely could use tweaks). Tons of libraries for more GUI apps to build upon. And of course a few thousand debian command line utilities.... Feb 03 05:10:25 right, and wesnoth (i just read) has a small gui flag that can be used Feb 03 05:10:47 crashanddie: well, no. but i was trying to compare using PC as a baseline Feb 03 05:11:09 dracflamloc_: and the N900 has a small stylus that can be used too! Double win! Feb 03 05:11:10 yea one of the main reasons i just ordered a n900 is the res (and linux of course) Feb 03 05:11:17 Feb 03 05:11:44 i like the stylus :/ Feb 03 05:13:02 So people have been working on getting the N900 to work as a router, right? Feb 03 05:13:22 Anything that uses textmode graphics (e.g. based on the curses library) will work perfectly well. Feb 03 05:13:28 crashanddie: most people call it tethering Feb 03 05:13:32 crashanddie: I got NAT going, fwiw. Feb 03 05:13:48 I was thinking, how bad would it be if I wrote and packaged a wifipwn package? Feb 03 05:14:14 Pavel: sadly not even :) see tome/angband discussions Feb 03 05:14:34 you know, the attack where the N900 shows a page, pretending to be a secure access point requesting either T-Mobile/hotspot credentials or credit card information? Feb 03 05:14:56 O.O Feb 03 05:15:10 that one never even crossed my mind >_< Feb 03 05:15:11 hey, if you provide the service... :) Feb 03 05:15:31 pupnik: What happens? Feb 03 05:15:55 crashanddie: Is that one N900-specific? Feb 03 05:16:00 it's just getting the large font size to work. we lose one row to the scrollbar, which isn't disable-able yet Feb 03 05:16:04 Pavel: not really Feb 03 05:16:35 Pavel: just that as you have the 3g network providing internet once the user is logged in, you can setup the attack where there is NO wifi, except yours... Feb 03 05:17:29 well with everyone gets mobile internet access wlan hotspots are a dying breed soon Feb 03 05:17:29 now, if the N900 supported monitor mode, you could even have it vibrate whenever it saw nodes looking for wifi... Feb 03 05:17:40 crashanddie: does that require N900 to actually be able to run as an AP? Feb 03 05:17:58 crashanddie: you don't need wifi to do that attack... Feb 03 05:18:09 err, don't need internet Feb 03 05:18:20 crashanddie: Oh, nevermind --- I missed your earlier line. The N900 is the "attacker" here... Feb 03 05:18:22 how does joikuspot work if the device is not capable of playing AP? Feb 03 05:18:23 cehteh: cell internet will never replace wifi Feb 03 05:18:24 villager: pretty much yeah, people don't usually connect to point-to-point wifi networks for hotspot Feb 03 05:18:25 I thought the wifi chip in the n900 couldn't do host mode Feb 03 05:18:30 cehteh: it uses adhoc Feb 03 05:18:53 so it brings only one device to the internet Feb 03 05:19:08 luke-jr: actually, you do if you don't want people start looking around and call their CC company on the spot Feb 03 05:19:15 i had hope for somehow magically emulating an ap :( Feb 03 05:19:43 crashanddie: throw up a "Sorry, technical difficulties" page? :p Feb 03 05:19:44 cehteh: still my hope as well Feb 03 05:20:10 This is odd... I installed the extra codecs package, and the built-in player can see ogg files, but not flac files. Feb 03 05:20:11 luke-jr: well, if you do it right, you can at the same time do some man-in-the-middle attacks and fish some passwords as well Feb 03 05:20:51 crashanddie: especially if you're a Chinese government official ;) Feb 03 05:21:08 hey is there any reasonable chance of the gnustep libraries working on maemo? Feb 03 05:21:50 I ran joikuspot on my n95 and it could only do adhoc mode, not ap mode Feb 03 05:21:56 probably same on n900 Feb 03 05:22:10 dracflamloc_: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gnustep/ Feb 03 05:22:50 villager: there is a thread on TMO to have the N900 act as an AP Feb 03 05:23:02 hm Feb 03 05:23:03 crashanddie: does it contain people with a clue? Feb 03 05:23:06 not active sadly =( Feb 03 05:23:10 lol Feb 03 05:23:36 i've got some iphone games i'd like to port to maemo and release open source, gnustep would be a major timesaver Feb 03 05:23:53 villager: there's someone who's replaced kernel modules to support iptables and stuff, so I guess the answer is "yes" Feb 03 05:24:25 crashanddie: that sounds like the nat part, not the ap-mode part Feb 03 05:24:32 crashanddie: even in that case it's still ad-hoc though, right? Feb 03 05:24:56 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=504743&highlight=hotspot#post504743 Feb 03 05:25:04 just read it Feb 03 05:25:20 and make up your own minds, I'm a mod, I don't have time to read posts... I just delete and move them Feb 03 05:25:43 crashanddie: you delete/move posts w/o reading them? :) Feb 03 05:25:49 all the time Feb 03 05:26:05 I get a report, scan for the keyword (delete, spam, move to) and act upon it Feb 03 05:28:17 it is so good i am not a mod Feb 03 05:28:37 worse yet, because I'm in Australia, I've been promoted to IRC op as well! Feb 03 05:29:15 I should just +b *@* and be done with it Feb 03 05:29:17 instead of deleting, i'd pre-date posts to keep stupid topics off the front Feb 03 05:29:36 we don't delete Feb 03 05:29:41 we remove harsh words when there's insults Feb 03 05:29:46 deleting is very rare Feb 03 05:29:48 crashanddie: the source code for that hotspot program they're talking about enables ad-hoc mode Feb 03 05:30:27 villager: then we need someone to charlie the wireless driver and provide support for master mode then Feb 03 05:31:37 that or monitor Feb 03 05:32:11 my n900 just made a new sound. and now the blue LED is flashing twice Feb 03 05:32:20 what is that? Feb 03 05:32:28 incoming notice Feb 03 05:32:29 it thinks it's an n810? Feb 03 05:32:49 ahh there it is, ty Feb 03 05:34:07 it was lying directly behind me and it sounded like the sound came from my keyboard Feb 03 05:36:19 btw, I've broken the screen of my N900 Feb 03 05:36:34 I've got a big nic on the left hand side, right slap bang in the middle Feb 03 05:36:53 it's just the first layer, but well, doesn't look very tidy Feb 03 05:47:02 bwahaha i can't take it . the financials are killing me :) Feb 03 05:50:52 so, whats the first thing i should do wheni get my new phone? Feb 03 05:51:00 ship it to me Feb 03 05:51:02 <.< Feb 03 05:51:38 bwahahah Feb 03 05:51:44 you can have the box =) Feb 03 05:51:56 sweet, I'll sell it on ebay Feb 03 05:52:17 haha Feb 03 05:52:23 so YOU'RE the one Feb 03 05:52:23 BRAND NEW NOKIA N900 ................. box Feb 03 05:52:28 j/k ;) Feb 03 05:52:33 uh huh... Feb 03 05:52:51 i like that the sdk is offered in a VM image Feb 03 05:52:56 handy for work Feb 03 05:53:00 lol timeless_mbp, I just stumbled on one of your patches in firefox Feb 03 05:53:02 since i cant actually install linux ther Feb 03 05:53:30 dracflamloc: you could install a VM? Feb 03 05:53:40 well Feb 03 05:53:47 technically i *could* install linux there Feb 03 05:54:04 however i wouldnt be able to do what i need to do since we're a windoze software shop Feb 03 05:54:30 why not? Feb 03 05:54:32 i also have access to a vmware esx server so i can make whatever VMs i need Feb 03 05:54:34 dracflamloc: Implement a password storage app leveraging the (included in the distribution) gnupg's public key encryption capabilities to allow the user to a) create and encrypt new records without unlocking the keyring and b) allow secure and granular synchronization with other installations via SyncML or IMAP, even if the server is not completely trusted. Feb 03 05:54:46 myth of the day: you need Windows to do Windows development Feb 03 05:54:55 i dont believe that myth Feb 03 05:54:57 however Feb 03 05:55:26 explaining things to my team is made more difficult Feb 03 05:55:27 dracflamloc: Because I want someone to do that, so that I wouldn't have to. Feb 03 05:55:54 gah git-core isn't optified Feb 03 05:57:08 There's two kind of people in the world: those who have money problems, and those who have tax problems. Feb 03 05:57:41 and ugly people Feb 03 05:57:46 Hence, we can extrapolate that there are rich people Feb 03 05:58:01 and people who are too scared to spend money Feb 03 05:58:26 well that was rather random Feb 03 05:58:26 crashanddie: don't those groups overlap to a degree? Feb 03 05:58:40 luke-jr: hardly Feb 03 05:58:58 being scared to spend money leads to being rich... Feb 03 05:59:02 luke-jr: if you're scared to spend money, it doesn't matter how rich you are, you'll always be poor Feb 03 05:59:28 (yes, one of those words is metaphoric) Feb 03 05:59:31 crashanddie: there are two definitions for rich, neither of which fit with that :P Feb 03 06:00:10 crap Feb 03 06:00:12 well Feb 03 06:00:23 i just bought this phone so.... guess im not rich! Feb 03 06:00:52 um Feb 03 06:00:55 yay for poor logic? Feb 03 06:01:03 indeed Feb 03 06:03:33 * mtd just made an optified git .deb that actually worked on his n900. sweet, time for bed now. Feb 03 06:03:41 nice mtd :) Feb 03 06:03:58 jebba: thanks :) Feb 03 06:06:31 enjoy your jet-lag friday mtd Feb 03 06:08:31 any break through on the USB host front? Feb 03 06:09:05 not really Feb 03 06:09:20 i have heard that there can be none Feb 03 06:09:24 true? Feb 03 06:10:02 it is an unsubstantiated rumor Feb 03 06:10:31 morning RST38h Feb 03 06:10:32 there is a couple of people who firmly BELIEVE it can be done, and one of them does not even have an N900 Feb 03 06:10:40 moorning pupnik Feb 03 06:10:56 LOL Feb 03 06:11:28 RST38h: it *surely* can be done .. just matter of efforts Feb 03 06:11:49 might need to open it up ;) Feb 03 06:11:59 so there is identical hardware with working host-mode cehteh ? what is it called? Feb 03 06:12:00 maybe not with the buildin usb chip or pcb ... but well Feb 03 06:12:08 fssh Feb 03 06:12:17 :) Feb 03 06:12:32 <`0660_> :) Feb 03 06:18:42 the last Iheard it is a PHY issue since the 4030 is not used for that Feb 03 06:18:56 iHeard? Feb 03 06:19:04 New rumors about Apple? Feb 03 06:19:10 s/Iheard/I heard/ Feb 03 06:19:10 ds3 meant: the last I heard it is a PHY issue since the 4030 is not used for that Feb 03 06:19:16 iHurd, GNU for Apple Feb 03 06:19:24 not iHerd or its variants :P Feb 03 06:19:25 4030 ... Feb 03 06:19:42 bug #4030 Feb 03 06:19:43 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4030 ai_nc_remove_repository should not talk about "package list" as nothing else does Feb 03 06:19:46 is it even confirmed which usb phy is used exactly? Feb 03 06:20:06 it is only as confirmed as someone's wiki entry Feb 03 06:20:59 lost of host mode is another strike against upgarding from an N800 (lost of the 2 full size SD slots, microUSB connectors, and yet a different charger connection are the others) Feb 03 06:21:51 I just want something with all the features of the N800 but with a faster proc... is that too much to ask? :/ Feb 03 06:22:01 microusb charging is industry standard by now (manndated in europe irrc) Feb 03 06:23:47 http://www.mobilewhack.com/micro-usb-charging-standard-coming-to-europe/ Feb 03 06:23:53 ds3: Pandora? Feb 03 06:24:16 luke-jr: big... that is approaching what I can build Feb 03 06:24:27 cehteh: not mandated, but heavily recommended. Basically, the threat is: use uUSB for charging or we'll spend 6 months longer testing your device before giving ECC approval Feb 03 06:24:28 uh, no? :x Feb 03 06:24:53 cehteh: however, vendors can get around it by not calling the device "mobile" Feb 03 06:25:23 crashanddie: as far i know there where at least discussions to mandate it .. which prolly led the manufacturers to prempt that and voluntary agree on it Feb 03 06:25:36 pretty much yeah Feb 03 06:25:56 I'm actually thinking about wiring my house with USB plugs next to the power sockets Feb 03 06:26:08 it is a bad idea Feb 03 06:26:09 and just have 5V everywhere Feb 03 06:26:13 anyways i think having one common charger standard is a good choice, i dont care if its micro or mini usb or usb at all Feb 03 06:26:18 i see the pandora as the n800 successor in many ways Feb 03 06:26:29 while uusb isnt a that bad choice Feb 03 06:26:30 isn't USB awful slow for charging? Feb 03 06:26:36 depends Feb 03 06:26:39 luke-jr: not at all Feb 03 06:26:49 luke-jr: my blackberry charges in roughly 1h30 Feb 03 06:26:53 computer usb seems slower than wall charger usb Feb 03 06:26:55 luke-jr: charging can operate on other currents than normal usb Feb 03 06:26:57 luke-jr: however, that's power-socket-usb Feb 03 06:27:05 crashanddie: that's not very fast Feb 03 06:27:12 n900 gets a full charge in <45 minutes using the wall charger Feb 03 06:27:13 luke-jr: it is Feb 03 06:27:26 luke-jr: for a 3 day full on 3g experience? I'm not too discontent with that Feb 03 06:27:30 dunno, I like my 15 minute 4xAA charger <.< Feb 03 06:27:40 luke-jr: different batteries Feb 03 06:27:46 data connection provides 100mA (or was it 75mA) if not acknowledged with the host, but can acknowledge up to 500mA Feb 03 06:27:51 [stupidly] What is "3G experience"? Feb 03 06:27:55 cehteh: 100 Feb 03 06:28:02 I haven't actually checked to see how much less than 45 minutes though Feb 03 06:28:04 RST38h: 3g connected the whole Feb 03 06:28:05 time Feb 03 06:28:29 but dedicated chargers short the data pins, the mobile detects that and then cann pull as much power it likes Feb 03 06:28:33 for one thing I do not need the keyboard on the pandora Feb 03 06:28:41 (or as much until voltage drops) Feb 03 06:28:41 n900 dies after 8 hours of video recording and web use though. Feb 03 06:28:48 * luke-jr will never understand a keyboardless computer Feb 03 06:29:41 me neither: ipadd vs netbook is not a fair fight. Feb 03 06:29:45 dmj726: experiences differ Feb 03 06:29:58 yes, the ipad is disqualified before it even starts Feb 03 06:30:01 * crashanddie reminds everyone of the n800 Feb 03 06:30:13 too much useless crap in the ipad Feb 03 06:30:16 * luke-jr reminds himself why he would never have ever considered buying a N800 :p Feb 03 06:30:19 A friend of mine has an n800 Feb 03 06:30:29 she still uses it all the time. Feb 03 06:30:35 I love the N800... 2 slots, no keyboards to waste space Feb 03 06:30:53 it is a daily carry machine. if i wanted a keyboard, I could haev gone with a Z Feb 03 06:31:01 n900 with usb host and 2 sd slots would be awesome. Feb 03 06:31:05 ds3: waste? seriously, how do you use a computer without a kb? Feb 03 06:31:18 ds3: Z didn't have as much RAM Feb 03 06:31:22 luke-jr: unless you want to input data, a keyboard is useless Feb 03 06:31:38 luke-jr: I been using it for the last 2 years on a daily basis... it is so natural Feb 03 06:31:46 * dmj726 takes notes Feb 03 06:31:53 for the few cases I need a KB, the OSK is sufficient Feb 03 06:31:56 ds3: for what, though? Feb 03 06:32:10 wikipedia, youtube, read mail, read news Feb 03 06:32:18 which is 99% of what people do on a computer anyway Feb 03 06:32:22 O.o Feb 03 06:32:24 and porn Feb 03 06:32:24 luke-jr: email, mapping, media, doccument reading, web browsing and anything else I'd use a laptop for Feb 03 06:32:26 To be honest, I mostly use my netbook when I need to type a lot. Feb 03 06:32:29 2 SD slots and no internal emmc .. would be fine, dual sim too Feb 03 06:32:39 ...more than a few hundred words Feb 03 06:32:43 * luke-jr uses a keyboard for everything except watching video Feb 03 06:33:01 hmm Feb 03 06:33:04 * crashanddie reminds luke-jr that he isn't everyone Feb 03 06:33:05 I am very disappointed in the netbooks... worse peice of crap ever Feb 03 06:33:06 I really do prefer the hardware keyboard though Feb 03 06:33:08 * RST38h finds N900 unlocked for the third morning in the row Feb 03 06:33:20 What the hell is going on? Has 51.1 started to unlock itself??? Feb 03 06:33:43 NSA logged in Feb 03 06:33:45 RST38h: I've been seeing the wifi screen popup seemingly at random lately Feb 03 06:33:46 It frees up the screen Feb 03 06:33:52 very handy for irc Feb 03 06:34:09 RST38h: also, it would appear the hinge that detects the keyboard open/closed is pretty flimsy Feb 03 06:34:18 RST38h: check your dmesg to see if it detects it as open or closed Feb 03 06:34:37 * luke-jr LOL at the latest Pandora fiasco Feb 03 06:34:44 a keyboard could be nice for IRC but if you have enough IRC traffic to warrent it, you can probally warrant getting a bluetooth keyboard Feb 03 06:35:01 #maemo is busy enough Feb 03 06:35:06 most of the Pandora stuff can be built pretty easily Feb 03 06:35:20 basically, reading the incoming traffic while you're typing can be important Feb 03 06:35:38 right... but for that a BT keyboard solves it nicely Feb 03 06:35:38 ds3 where is the source? Feb 03 06:35:44 true Feb 03 06:35:49 a lot of people have been using the n800 to use IRC frequently Feb 03 06:35:51 ds3: then why isn't everyone of those 4000 people building their own pandora-clone from scratch? Feb 03 06:35:52 pupnik: source? Feb 03 06:35:55 GeneralAntilles: is one of those madmen Feb 03 06:35:56 crashanddie: thanks, checking Feb 03 06:36:02 for "pandora stuff" Feb 03 06:36:05 luke-jr: I have my own version Feb 03 06:36:22 ds3: you built a pandora-like device? Feb 03 06:36:24 pupnik: sorry... I meant pandora itself Feb 03 06:36:33 luke-jr: yeah, sans keyboard Feb 03 06:36:47 ... Feb 03 06:36:48 RST38h: dmesg | grep "GPIO 71" Feb 03 06:36:59 ds3: so you hand soldered the PCB or what? Feb 03 06:37:13 luke-jr: yes Feb 03 06:37:38 working on a newer rev with a better LCD Feb 03 06:37:53 (transreflective + higher rez) Feb 03 06:38:28 pics or it doesn't exist Feb 03 06:38:29 <.< Feb 03 06:39:04 crash: just a flood of wlan messages (got low signal) Feb 03 06:39:10 luke-jr: http://www.hy-research.com/beagle_mid.html Feb 03 06:39:18 next question :D Feb 03 06:39:27 beagle? that's not hand-soldering Feb 03 06:39:33 RST38h: so when you use the command above, and open/close it once, you just get two messages added to the list? Feb 03 06:39:34 uh... Feb 03 06:39:41 it is not just a beagle Feb 03 06:40:10 there is a display board + expansion board Feb 03 06:40:34 does that thing actually fit in your pocket? Feb 03 06:40:38 in any case, given the size of the pandora... it isn't that interesting... Feb 03 06:40:48 not quite... hence the desire for something more like the N800 Feb 03 06:41:09 I can thin it out but I haven't had time to respin the case Feb 03 06:42:03 still cool Feb 03 06:42:50 the LCD really needs to be upgraded... even the GVM stuff looks funny on it Feb 03 06:42:56 I'd be interested in a nice stylus friendly 9-10" sunlight readable device running a debian derivative. Feb 03 06:43:14 dmj726: why 9-10"? Feb 03 06:43:39 nice size to hold, take notes on, and view documents Feb 03 06:44:03 have you actually used one? Feb 03 06:44:09 and as the kindle and apple have demonstrated, adding a keyboard to a 9" device is seriously hard to do right Feb 03 06:44:21 I don't think that exists. Feb 03 06:44:42 dmj726: next step: is there a Beagle-like board for QSD8672? Feb 03 06:44:43 I could get close if I made my netbook a touchscreen. Feb 03 06:44:51 there are plenty of 9-10" devices... just lack the sunlight readable part Feb 03 06:44:56 QSD8672? Feb 03 06:45:04 i.e. the TC1000 from Compaq of years past Feb 03 06:45:15 dmj726: dual-core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon SoC Feb 03 06:45:25 something like a hybrid epaper/lcd screen Feb 03 06:45:44 luke-jr: I don't believe the mfg of that chip will approve Feb 03 06:46:24 Given a big enough battery, an atom chip even could suffice. Feb 03 06:46:32 boo x86 Feb 03 06:46:34 congrats to ds3 for doing what so many people BSed about Feb 03 06:46:59 btw, parts for that are available for sale :D Feb 03 06:47:29 dmj726: you should try using a device that size and see if it meets your expectations (it didn't for me) Feb 03 06:47:35 I love my company's products Feb 03 06:47:38 I have a netbook. Feb 03 06:47:54 "FATAL ERROR: Operation completed successfully. Cannot continue, please review logs for more information" Feb 03 06:47:56 Are you thinking bigger or smaller? Feb 03 06:48:00 dmj726: in tablet form factor? Feb 03 06:48:04 yeah Feb 03 06:48:15 Oh... and you find it useable in that size? Feb 03 06:48:53 I do. I've probably not typed more than one or two hundred thousand words on it though. Feb 03 06:49:05 interesting... Feb 03 06:49:16 My n900 and it complement each other nicely. Feb 03 06:49:23 dmj726: (no offense intended) are you a large person? Feb 03 06:49:27 No Feb 03 06:49:52 I see... my experience has been the opposite Feb 03 06:50:01 And I don't have fat fingers, so I find the netbook keyboard nice. Feb 03 06:50:45 Basically the netbook takes care of my ubuntu/x86/keyboard needs, and the n900 fills the phone/camera/media needs. Feb 03 06:51:09 guess maybe the market is more suited to smaller quantities with more variations then the 1size fit all high volume path Feb 03 06:51:10 I do have a desktop for performance apps. Feb 03 06:51:50 * RST38h does not get why people need netbooks Feb 03 06:51:54 Yeah, my 3 device strategy is desktop/netbook/smartphone. Feb 03 06:52:11 Laptop users don't need netbooks Feb 03 06:52:29 RST38h: elaborate more on that? Feb 03 06:52:40 laptop users need neither netbooks nor desktops Feb 03 06:52:52 unless they're gamers Feb 03 06:52:59 and there are laptops that are the same size or smaller than netbooks Feb 03 06:53:07 or heavy storage users Feb 03 06:53:14
<-- and yes, that's a product that is going to power one of the government's critical systems Feb 03 06:53:22 I'd argue the smaller point Feb 03 06:53:22 Storage should reside in a box somewhere in a drawer Feb 03 06:53:23 dmj726: those'd buy a NAS Feb 03 06:53:24 http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/android-kernel-problems.html Feb 03 06:53:27 Oh... so your complaints is not about the size/formfactor Feb 03 06:53:41 I see netbooks as a cost reduced UMPC Feb 03 06:53:54 * RST38h sees netbooks as dirt cheap underpowered laptops Feb 03 06:54:00 Uniform Medium-sized Piece of Crap? Feb 03 06:54:06 heheh Feb 03 06:54:16 * RST38h does not see why he would need two laptops, or laptop and desktop Feb 03 06:54:29 again, usages differ Feb 03 06:54:34 I see them as handy, portable *real* computers that don't cost a lot. Feb 03 06:54:45 * crashanddie reminds everyone for the umptieth time that nobody is the exact copy of another person Feb 03 06:54:47 except netbooks are so poorly built Feb 03 06:54:51 Hi everyone I would like to request assistance from your webpage országotokba we find the views and give more to others as well as likely that I will be banned from getting a link in röktön http://gollszexcom.atw.hu/ Feb 03 06:54:59 Mine seems pretty robust. Feb 03 06:55:13 crashanddie: the netbook thing cannot be explained this way Feb 03 06:55:14 I'm also very happy it has a matte screen. Feb 03 06:55:30 'cause they are laptops, no matter what kind of perosn are you, a laptop will do the job of a netbook Feb 03 06:55:32 this Asus eeePC I am on has a flakey power connector, completely broken touch pad, loose USB connections... and that's just the beginning... unit is about a year old Feb 03 06:55:34 not the vice versa though Feb 03 06:55:57 I nearly got an uberlaptop, then realized a netbook met my needs better. Feb 03 06:56:10 No need to get an uberlaptop Feb 03 06:56:21 for a third the price, I would have something I wouldn't be tempted to leave behind. Feb 03 06:56:27 a machine that crumbles before you is not a good machine Feb 03 06:56:30 There are <1.3kg laptops that are <0.8" thick and still do the job Feb 03 06:56:46 I know, but I can't afford those. Feb 03 06:56:52 You probably can Feb 03 06:56:59 * RST38h bought his R100 for $850 Feb 03 06:57:11 what's the R100? Feb 03 06:57:16 yeah, that's 2x the cost of my netbook Feb 03 06:57:20 Actually, R500 Feb 03 06:57:26 R100 was the previous one Feb 03 06:57:30 what's the R500? Feb 03 06:57:36 dmj: Yes, but you also have a desktop right? ;) Feb 03 06:57:40 yes Feb 03 06:57:45 ds3: google for Toshiba Portege Feb 03 06:57:49 dmj: Add up. Feb 03 06:58:30 i heard mixed critics about it, was considering it for myself but found it way to expensive Feb 03 06:58:49 cehteh: Well worth the money, unless you intend to go for the top model Feb 03 06:59:00 How about a laptop with Nvidia 8800 graphics, core 2 duo, ~2TB disk space, 4 hours of battery, and weighs under 5 lbs. Feb 03 06:59:11 nVidia FTL Feb 03 06:59:15 its display should be awesome Feb 03 06:59:18 cehteh: CDROM and SSD are not worth it Feb 03 06:59:32 cehteh: The R500 display actually sucks. A lot. Feb 03 06:59:38 oh and 1920x1200 display Feb 03 06:59:38 heh for me i would really like a ssd ... the hd is a bottleneck here Feb 03 06:59:38 looks big Feb 03 06:59:47 cehteh: But the rest is pretty perfect Feb 03 06:59:58 wish toshiba would revive that VHS sized Pentium machine they used to make Feb 03 06:59:58 RST38h: maybe i am happy with my hp 2510p then Feb 03 07:00:05 cehteh: HD are faster than SSD in my experience :p Feb 03 07:00:07 unfortunately laptops can't really game or edit video well Feb 03 07:00:19 ssd is mostly the random access Feb 03 07:00:30 luke-jr: depends on what ssd you use and what usage pattern you have Feb 03 07:00:38 true Feb 03 07:00:54 cehteh: Yea, that should probably do as well Feb 03 07:00:55 here i have a ultra slow 1.8" hdd .. Feb 03 07:01:09 and the hdd is the bottleneck for sure Feb 03 07:01:14 or an improved IBM PC110 Feb 03 07:01:15 cehteh: I'm sure. my SSD are all SD cards :) Feb 03 07:01:30 * RST38h isn't particularly sold on SSDs Feb 03 07:01:32 ext4 gave and noticeable boost and 4GB ram improved it much more too but still Feb 03 07:01:43 luke-jr: haha Feb 03 07:01:46 Basically, I have a limited budget, and laptops don't let you slowly upgrade bits over time, which means buying entire devices again, rather than getting a new cpu. Feb 03 07:02:05 dmj: You buy it once every 3 years. Feb 03 07:02:12 Netbook lets me cheaply fill that gap. Feb 03 07:02:16 luke-jr: i am considering a 100MB/sec ssd .. my hd gives barely 12-18mb plus high latency Feb 03 07:02:30 I've not bought a full new desktop at once for a decade. Feb 03 07:02:31 * RST38h does not see how netbook is an "upgrade" over laptop though :) Feb 03 07:02:40 *price* Feb 03 07:02:52 especially at the size Feb 03 07:02:55 cehteh: IIRC, my SATA HD does about 150 MB/sec Feb 03 07:02:56 ah yes, the libretto is the name Feb 03 07:02:58 and that is supposed to equate to a hardware upgrade? Feb 03 07:03:04 dmj726: here too, but if a ssd will improve my laptops performance considerably then i dont need a new laptop soon so thats actually saving money Feb 03 07:03:13 means more money for the desktop Feb 03 07:03:26 luke-jr: what hdd is that? Feb 03 07:03:38 for years, GPU and CPU upgrades were important to me. Feb 03 07:03:41 cehteh: I forget; Samsung something? Feb 03 07:03:44 cehteh: it was cheap :P Feb 03 07:03:49 luke-jr: i am speaking of real filesystem performance not sequential writes Feb 03 07:04:17 oh Feb 03 07:04:24 no consumer/cheap hdd reaches 150mb/sec Feb 03 07:04:38 you need a 15k rpm server disk for that at least Feb 03 07:05:19 hdds are just aren't robust enough Feb 03 07:05:26 So desktop has made a lot of sense. There's no way, I could've bought a new gaming laptop every 2 years. Feb 03 07:05:32 laptop drives are quite robust Feb 03 07:05:48 some of us are harder on machines then others Feb 03 07:05:59 I am rather taxing on my netbook though. Feb 03 07:06:14 15k RPM is consumer grade Feb 03 07:06:14 lol Feb 03 07:06:15 I could never use a netbook with windows. Feb 03 07:06:35 well this 1.8" hdd is crappy slow but these are relative rugged and its mounted with some rubber foam Feb 03 07:06:36 crashandie: no it isn't Feb 03 07:06:47 a netbook (had the build quality beenbetter) would have been idea for true mobile use where it may get tossed around Feb 03 07:06:59 of course i dont want to bang my laptop aganist the wall while the hdd operates Feb 03 07:07:16 that isn't an issue with SSD... just don't crack the LCD and.... :D Feb 03 07:07:19 ds3: wasn't one of the features of the eeepc that you could drop it and it would keep playing video? Feb 03 07:07:21 Mine has taken several falls, and not suffered any significant damage Feb 03 07:07:30 Yes, it does Feb 03 07:07:42 i just wait for it to die and then replace it with a ssd .. the longer it takes that it dies the cheaper ssds will be :P Feb 03 07:07:48 crashanddie: probally... except you couldn't stop it cuz the @#$@#%@#@# touchpad would die on you Feb 03 07:08:09 I'm not sure about most netbooks, but the eee pc 900 has been quite robust. Feb 03 07:08:24 the 900A I have has not Feb 03 07:08:37 currently there was a price bump and 400+ Eur for 128GB ssd is way to expensive Feb 03 07:08:47 donno what they broke when they chucked the celery Feb 03 07:08:53 The touchpad is usable as long as you don't try graphics. Feb 03 07:09:19 my touch pad is completely dead... started with the left mouse button 6months in Feb 03 07:09:20 chucked the celery? Feb 03 07:09:28 hmm... Feb 03 07:09:33 900 used the celeron; 900A uses the atom Feb 03 07:09:42 Mine's fine (18 months in) Feb 03 07:09:58 the only thing I'd use an eeepc for is as doormat Feb 03 07:10:12 The only real beef I have with mine is the battery life is better with the atoms. Feb 03 07:11:21 I use it for web browsing (usually <= 100 tabs), open office (20 large documents), a little video/music, etc. Feb 03 07:11:32 that fills up most of the 1gb of ram. Feb 03 07:11:40 what browser? Feb 03 07:11:44 firefox. Feb 03 07:11:53 you guys are idiots Feb 03 07:12:00 how you manage to get near 100 tabs w/firefox? Feb 03 07:12:07 quote "<100 tabs" lmao Feb 03 07:12:19 It works fine. Feb 03 07:12:30 firefox is a PoS that gobbles memory like it is going out of style Feb 03 07:12:34 a 1280 screen can reasonably show 12 tabs Feb 03 07:12:46 after that you need to start cycling through them, which is a pain Feb 03 07:12:48 Firefox is the most memory efficient of the main browsers Feb 03 07:12:58 yes so 10 browser windows, 10 tabs each Feb 03 07:13:02 * crashanddie loves the smell of trolls in the evening Feb 03 07:13:03 ...windows and workspaces Feb 03 07:13:04 uh...err.... Feb 03 07:13:20 your mind is able to track 7 activities at once Feb 03 07:13:26 the unfocused mind is lost and can not move Feb 03 07:13:27 and you need a 100 tabs? Feb 03 07:13:38 crashanddie: i use the tabs more like a stack Feb 03 07:13:45 yeah, they're to referrence a while later Feb 03 07:13:53 learn to use bookmarks ffs Feb 03 07:13:58 I don'tso much track it as i use it to keep track of pending things Feb 03 07:14:23 bookmarks would be fine if these @;2Q#%$@#$%@$%#$@#$# imbiclic developers would write proper web pages Feb 03 07:14:45 They're like reminders that don't warrent bookmarks, and might not be available properly later. Feb 03 07:15:10 Hello, i used to have the choice in address bar, to search with google, but now, it had disappeared, what could cause it? Feb 03 07:15:42 My netbook can handle it too, which is impressive. Feb 03 07:15:46 crashanddie: the other thing is I have 20-30 xterms open too Feb 03 07:15:53 oh that too Feb 03 07:15:54 clearly we have different work habbits Feb 03 07:16:14 100 tabs = porn Feb 03 07:16:54 hello? Happened to nobody? Feb 03 07:17:01 tabs are great for comparing things... i.e. search for PDAs on amazon and use a tab for each entry that is interesting Feb 03 07:19:32 yeah, or cuing articles from an agregator to read. Feb 03 07:19:53 or tmo threads Feb 03 07:23:34 wtb facebook widget that lets you status update on desktop Feb 03 07:23:47 and shows the notifications number Feb 03 07:23:57 the current one is fancy but useless Feb 03 07:48:27 ~ping Feb 03 07:48:28 ~pong Feb 03 07:56:05 ~zing Feb 03 07:57:49 ~zong Feb 03 07:58:50 :) Feb 03 08:17:30 X-Fade: please take a look at the Diablo builder process, there has not been a single Diablo package build since early Monday and the queues appear empty. Sorry for the disturbance and thank you. Feb 03 08:38:46 anyone knows whether Tear is still being developed? Feb 03 08:42:24 re Feb 03 08:42:38 morning Corsac Feb 03 08:42:57 moin aquatix Feb 03 08:46:56 Morning, all Feb 03 08:53:30 moin Feb 03 09:01:28 * alterego sighs, I miss having an N900. Feb 03 09:01:44 I hate this Series 60 phone :'( Feb 03 09:02:26 i hate not having a clue about anything and trying to program Feb 03 09:02:48 reMoo Feb 03 09:03:08 i should bring my projector and play stupid games all day at fosdem Feb 03 09:03:16 pupnik: That's a common feeling shared by all serious programmers :P Feb 03 09:03:36 Serious programmers do not program stuff they do not understand =) Feb 03 09:04:03 thing is, i have a good sense of what is doable Feb 03 09:04:25 pupnik: anything in particular you're having problems with? Feb 03 09:06:52 emulator sound straight to alsa hw on n900 Feb 03 09:07:41 wiley vill get eet veerking! Feb 03 09:07:43 bbl Feb 03 09:10:30 I started programming an artificial intelligence Feb 03 09:10:38 but hit a brickwall, any nice tutorial about it? ;) Feb 03 09:11:01 use a human brain instead Feb 03 09:14:09 red: Hire more Chinese Feb 03 09:14:33 red: If you want it to pass the Turing test, hire Indians instead Feb 03 09:15:28 red, there are good AI tutorials for LUA Feb 03 09:15:34 google might help Feb 03 09:15:46 red: use this API: https://www.mturk.com/ Feb 03 09:17:58 red: Another good idea is to employ random Internet users making them do distributed computation in exchange for letting them see porn Feb 03 09:19:44 :D Feb 03 09:25:46 RST38h: given the availability of porn, it might be cheaper. Feb 03 09:33:27 morning Feb 03 09:34:20 Hi Feb 03 09:34:24 amigadave, Ping? Feb 03 09:34:46 amigadave, Jarmo has some docs to release, he asked me how I would like to see "the community feedback" happen Feb 03 09:35:07 is there a guitar tuner for n900? Feb 03 09:35:07 It's one of those questions that's hard to answer. Feb 03 09:35:28 It's like the story of the American tourists lost in the middle of Connemara. Feb 03 09:35:37 dneary: community feedback on documentation from Jarmo? what sort of information is covered? Feb 03 09:35:42 They see a man herding some sheep , and stop to ask directioons Feb 03 09:36:12 "Excuse me, how can we get to Roundstone from here, please?" Feb 03 09:36:21 The answer comes back: Feb 03 09:36:34 dneary: bugs with proper tagging would make my work easier ;-) Feb 03 09:36:34 "Well now, if I was going to Roundstone I wouldn't start from here at all" Feb 03 09:36:40 this reminds me, we need to talk about this crazy wiki<->latex mess Feb 03 09:36:41 heh Feb 03 09:36:47 amigadave: oh don't get me started Feb 03 09:36:53 looks like there is. sorry. Feb 03 09:37:00 Myrtti, Bugs with proper tagging? Feb 03 09:37:10 Ah - you mean add tags to bugs in Bugzilla? Feb 03 09:37:19 dneary: yeah, heard a variation of that nearly 20 years ago for the first time Feb 03 09:37:31 crashanddie, I didn't say it was a new joke Feb 03 09:37:41 dneary: neither did I imply you did Feb 03 09:37:42 dneary: yes Feb 03 09:37:57 dneary: defensive much? Bad night? Feb 03 09:38:17 crashanddie, Me? Defensive? Feb 03 09:38:26 crashanddie, I have another one... Feb 03 09:38:31 dneary: so, silly question from Jarmo, but what sort of documentation is it? Feb 03 09:38:54 amigadave, I CCed you an answer, you should have it Feb 03 09:39:02 dneary: i'm trying to find the bugs of the documentation from the bugzilla and it's, pardon my annoyance, shit. Feb 03 09:39:02 ah, just going through mails now... Feb 03 09:39:13 Maemo PC Connectivity Tutorial, Maemo Eclipse Tutorial, Maemo Flasher Tutorial and Maemo SDK Virtual Images Tutorial Feb 03 09:39:27 Maemo For Symbian Developers Guide and Maemo Documentation Guidelines Feb 03 09:39:35 dneary: oh, that stuff, erk Feb 03 09:39:37 Maemo Documentation Toolchain Feb 03 09:39:51 Maemo Hildon UI Guidelines, Hildon UI Guide, Maemo Widget UI Guidelines and Maemo Hildon Widget UI Guide Feb 03 09:40:09 The last three will be early pre-releases of wikified docs from forum Nokia Feb 03 09:40:18 the last 4, even Feb 03 09:40:27 All in all that'll be a few hundred pages of docs Feb 03 09:40:51 so, lots of feedback then :P ha Feb 03 09:49:45 why $~a and not just +C? :P Feb 03 09:50:28 because C blocks CTCPs? Feb 03 09:50:31 crashanddie, does that make smth useful? :) Feb 03 09:51:11 slonopotamus: actually, I saw nGF950N8 joining a few times, thought there might be a bot attack Feb 03 09:51:17 not really following, on the phone at the same time Feb 03 09:57:08 Stskeeps: ping Feb 03 09:57:15 w00t: :barf: Feb 03 09:57:15 :P Feb 03 09:57:20 Stskeeps: oh dear, still ill? Feb 03 09:57:25 nah, not for a while now Feb 03 09:57:29 that's good Feb 03 09:57:42 too busy preparing? or got a sec for /msg Feb 03 09:57:51 go ahead Feb 03 09:58:34 dneary: what's the other one? Feb 03 09:58:36 someone uses syncevolution here? Feb 03 09:58:46 mtd, Ah Feb 03 09:58:49 hrw: yes Feb 03 09:58:53 hrw: well, not on the device Feb 03 09:58:57 I was wondering how long till someone asked :) Feb 03 09:58:58 on the host Feb 03 09:59:17 A Belgian guy gets hired to paint the roads in the north of France Feb 03 09:59:27 Corsac: I just used on n900. now 100 duplicates to merge ;( Feb 03 09:59:39 The first day, he does amazing work - he paints 5km of road, twice as much as anyone else Feb 03 10:00:01 hrw: yeah, it might not be that stable yet Feb 03 10:00:04 The second day, he only paints 2km - and the foreman is wondering who he slowed down so much Feb 03 10:00:20 The third day, dĂ©gringolade, he doesn't even paint 300m! Feb 03 10:00:20 hrw: not sure which version you tried, but if it's reproducible (yeah, I know...) it might deserve a bug report Feb 03 10:00:44 hrw: btw, did you try to sync calendars/ Feb 03 10:00:45 ? Feb 03 10:00:52 dneary: ah heard this one :) Feb 03 10:01:02 dneary: would be funnier if you did it about the scot Feb 03 10:01:05 Corsac: calendar plugin looks like needs to be rebuilt Feb 03 10:01:10 ok Feb 03 10:01:19 dneary: but they say it's all in the delivery Feb 03 10:01:21 dneary: and nobody would be so stupid as to leave the pot of paint at the same spot ;) Feb 03 10:01:24 dneary: let's hear it Feb 03 10:01:27 The foreman calls him back at the end of the day and says "what's the story? You reported 5km the first day, 2km the second day, and today you only painted 300m!" And the Belgian says "Yes sir - the pot of paint is getting further & further away!" Feb 03 10:01:42 dneary: it is international joke - just nationality change or 'Belgian guy' became blondie Feb 03 10:01:43 Feb 03 10:02:05 hrw, Yeah - yesterday it was a Kerryman Feb 03 10:02:37 It's a nice story to explain why long-living applications (like web apps in JBoss) slow down dramatically over time Feb 03 10:03:01 Some data structure grows during the lifetime, and keeps getting parsed to add any new items Feb 03 10:03:13 dneary: yeah - stupidity of the craftsman responsible :) Feb 03 10:03:20 dneary: poorly written webapps would only have that Feb 03 10:03:23 dneary: Anything written in Java can be explained in these terms =) Feb 03 10:03:44 Not the same with the other languages though Feb 03 10:03:47 I'm going to start kick people who slam java and J2EE pointlessly Feb 03 10:04:16 crashanddie, As I said, any poorly written long-living application Feb 03 10:04:24 crashanddie <-- became easily pissable lately =) Feb 03 10:04:45 yeah, Australia will do that to you Feb 03 10:04:47 It just so happens that most applications are not so long-living, and a great example of longer-living apps are Tomcat and J2EE apps Feb 03 10:05:03 crashanddie: Do you still need criminal history to enter? =) Feb 03 10:05:08 crashanddie: any decent way of getting java on the n900, btw? Feb 03 10:05:11 And in JBoss you have so many opportunities to not release system resources that it's really easy to write apps poorly Feb 03 10:05:14 That's all Feb 03 10:05:22 crashanddie, Defensive much? Feb 03 10:05:24 mtd: there's a thread on TMO about it Feb 03 10:05:29 crashanddie: (I'd ask google but it seems you may know some cleverness) Feb 03 10:05:34 crashanddie: ok Feb 03 10:05:45 australians have a cure for that Feb 03 10:05:47 beer Feb 03 10:05:48 * mtd really just wants the/a jvm Feb 03 10:05:56 mtd: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37405 Feb 03 10:06:00 crashanddie: thx Feb 03 10:06:42 * mtd feels lucky after building & using an optified git .deb last night (yeah, gotta start somewhere) Feb 03 10:07:19 crashanddie: wish there was a way to view the whole thread in one web page :( Feb 03 10:12:44 from what I gathered, it's not possible to use the 3G connection on the N900 from a laptop using bluetooth? Feb 03 10:13:05 laptop doesn't have adhoc? Feb 03 10:13:08 i mean, wifi Feb 03 10:13:22 it has, but I wanted to use bluetooth :-) Feb 03 10:13:31 lucas: I thought it was possible with the bluetooth dun app Feb 03 10:13:40 lucas: but I haven't tried it Feb 03 10:13:43 with dun app you can use laptops internet on the n900 Feb 03 10:13:53 argh Feb 03 10:13:54 DUN uses the phone as a modem. my provider charges differently in that case Feb 03 10:13:54 i mean Feb 03 10:14:03 yeah Feb 03 10:14:05 thats what I ment Feb 03 10:14:41 lucas: as opposed to getting packets to the internet...how? laptop --bt--> n900 --802.11--> ?? --> internet? Feb 03 10:14:53 mmh Feb 03 10:15:03 mtd: profit! Feb 03 10:15:04 lucas: I assumed you wanted laptop --bt--> n900 --gprs--> ?? --> internet Feb 03 10:15:07 asj_: :) Feb 03 10:15:33 OK. In the past, my provider was using different 3G access points for "internet from mobile" and "internet from laptop using mobile as modem" Feb 03 10:15:42 maybe it's no longer true. I'll have to check Feb 03 10:15:51 how could they see which you use? :P Feb 03 10:16:14 except if the call number was different Feb 03 10:16:17 well, that's the name in the chatscript Feb 03 10:16:20 lucas: yeah, I think you should be able to control which access point is in use - there's an app for that IIUC Feb 03 10:16:30 lucas: fAPN or similar Feb 03 10:16:47 I'll investigate that Feb 03 10:16:53 * mtd notices the unfortunate-ness of that acronym Feb 03 10:18:48 I wonder how much power mauku widget takes Feb 03 10:20:01 asj_: you know that you have illegal mauku copy? Feb 03 10:21:17 hrw: hmm? Feb 03 10:21:58 asj_: mauku is not opensource and license do not allow to distribute binaries. there was discussion about it on maemo-devel Feb 03 10:23:44 hrw, mauku author uploaded it to extras Feb 03 10:24:35 he did Feb 03 10:25:03 he did not understood how non-free section of Extras work Feb 03 10:25:34 hrw, Nor do I Feb 03 10:26:07 It seems there's no way currently to get promoted from extras-devel/non-free to extras-testing/non-free Feb 03 10:26:19 And no way to get from there to extras/free Feb 03 10:26:24 Sorry - extras/non-free Feb 03 10:26:59 the emulators are in free? Feb 03 10:27:14 zaheerm, Which ones? Feb 03 10:27:24 the ones in extras :) Feb 03 10:27:29 Any Mer people around? Feb 03 10:27:39 Karsten or David? Feb 03 10:28:32 Carsten, but yeah :P Feb 03 10:28:45 * RST38h yawns Feb 03 10:28:49 Stskeeps, Hi Feb 03 10:28:59 The Extras non-free section is for applications that are binary only Feb 03 10:29:21 lo dneary Feb 03 10:29:24 This is usually due to these apps not being open-source but it may also happen that they cannot be built with autobuilder Feb 03 10:29:34 (the second case is usually temporary) Feb 03 10:29:52 is there a policy or something explaining what are the requirements for the various sections? (even just a pointer to debian policy would be nice, imho) Feb 03 10:29:53 The "non-free" does not mean that the app costs money or it is unmaintained Feb 03 10:29:57 RST38h, but it should be for _non-free_ apps instead :) Feb 03 10:30:11 i know. it's free as in freedom. Feb 03 10:30:14 slono: Well this is how Debian calls it Feb 03 10:30:38 I dunno, the license bother me that much...if it wanted a 100% free phone I would have to remove most the nokia code that makes it a phone Feb 03 10:30:39 like: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-sections Feb 03 10:30:40 Stskeeps, I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with the last few Mer/ pages in Special:Lonelypages Feb 03 10:30:40 So, all questions go to Debian folks who are quite religious and regularly jerk off at Stallman effigy Feb 03 10:30:57 dneary: sec, looking Feb 03 10:31:14 RST38h, and maemo took debian naming, so it would be logical to use debian meaning too. Feb 03 10:31:28 Stskeeps, Could you help me figure out what the ideal structure for the Mer web pages is? Since you moved Mer sprints to trac, I'm not sure exactly where everything is happening Feb 03 10:31:51 RST38h: usually debian people aren't really fond of rms Feb 03 10:31:57 RST38h, otherwise it just produces tons of confusion. Feb 03 10:32:12 dneary: right, - we didn't move sprints to trac, just to a custom system, but let me see .. Feb 03 10:32:51 I found interesting bug in Contacts Feb 03 10:33:07 only 1? Feb 03 10:33:37 Contacts are sorted wrong: O, Ă, P, but Ă should be after Z, Æ letters Feb 03 10:33:46 Stskeeps, I thought I saw trac. something in the URL Feb 03 10:33:46 asj_: no, another one Feb 03 10:33:52 dneary: just a hostname leftover :) Feb 03 10:33:57 * slonopotamus deleted his skype account, added it back and now has two skype entries in all skype contacts. Feb 03 10:34:10 dneary: basically i'm planning to start revamping things after my thesis defense on friday - is it something we can wait with until there? Feb 03 10:34:19 hrw, What does LC_COLLATE say? Feb 03 10:34:33 Stskeeps, Sure Feb 03 10:34:47 dneary: pl_PL Feb 03 10:34:50 bookmarking the page so i'll get back to it Feb 03 10:35:04 I was just trying to help out organising things - but it seemed like I would have had to start adding stuff to the Mer home page to be happy, and I didn't want to do that Feb 03 10:35:16 dneary: but Polish alphabet does not contain that letter Feb 03 10:35:19 A page for "Hardware Mer runs on" would be good Feb 03 10:35:24 :nod: Feb 03 10:36:02 And "Software we've changed for Mer" (which would include the SmartQ kernel, for example) also Feb 03 10:36:14 general rule is that mer pages are free to all to touch, it's a wiki, so Feb 03 10:36:22 And a general "Stuff you can do with Mer" page that would have a link to, say, Mer/Media Feb 03 10:36:28 Stskeeps, I know Feb 03 10:36:35 But a front page is a sacred thing :) Feb 03 10:36:36 but yes Feb 03 10:36:39 And yours is nice Feb 03 10:36:58 should be nice on pandora Feb 03 10:37:05 crashanddie: thanks for that thread; I'm going to try to package Ed Nevill's modified OpenJDK once he fixes the link to the source http://mint.camswl.com/openjdk/release.htm :) Feb 03 10:37:07 just put an image on sd Feb 03 10:37:22 crashanddie: I might go to his talk on the subject at FOSDEM and bug him there about it Feb 03 10:37:32 * mtd would like a JVM to play with clojure. Feb 03 10:38:16 how do you add .desktop file on your .deb build? Feb 03 10:39:43 heh.. my desktop sorts wrong too so it is in glibc ;( Feb 03 10:41:30 mtd, why don't you just use ubuntu/debian source package? Feb 03 10:41:48 okay got it. nvm Feb 03 10:42:13 Would be funny idea to use a Guitar Hero USB controller with the N900 :) Feb 03 10:42:32 Frets on Fire is an python based opensource clone of Guitar Hero aswell hmm :> Feb 03 10:42:50 portable guitar hero station ^^ Feb 03 10:42:59 how would you plug it in? Feb 03 10:43:15 isn't there some sort of adapters from usb to mini usb? Feb 03 10:43:20 or is it totally different? Feb 03 10:43:21 no, that's not possible Feb 03 10:43:22 slonopotamus: because 1) I'm ignorant :) and 2) I'm not sure it has Ed Nevill's speedups in it. But I will check into it...thanks. Feb 03 10:43:29 ah, scrap it then I guess Feb 03 10:43:51 the N900 is just a USB slave device Feb 03 10:43:54 can't act as a host Feb 03 10:44:18 question: is there a good example how to get access to abook from Qt? Feb 03 10:44:51 there isn't Feb 03 10:45:00 crashanddie: this page appears to be a useful overview/superset of the java solutions from that thread you pointed me to (for future reference): http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/delivering_java_se_to_fremantle/ Feb 03 10:47:03 lucas: sorry, all better now Feb 03 10:47:41 lucas, so you gave in and got a n900? :) Feb 03 10:47:47 yes! Feb 03 10:48:05 interestingly, ICMP over USB networking seems to fail when the 3G connection is up Feb 03 10:48:11 but SSH still works Feb 03 10:48:22 lucas: there's a rule somewhere about icmp on 3g Feb 03 10:48:36 mtd, it should just be a question of repackaging (and optifying) from debian/ubuntu. those solutions are not exclusive, they can all happen at the same time. Feb 03 10:48:50 Stskeeps: what's the rule? Feb 03 10:49:01 o_O Feb 03 10:49:06 asj_: dropping it? :) but I can't find it in iptables Feb 03 10:49:22 asj_: as in, there's some firewall rule or sysctl that is put in place.. can't recall where atm though Feb 03 10:49:23 sysctl maybe Feb 03 10:49:32 * satmd checks Feb 03 10:49:33 red: you can easily use the wiimote on n900 I think Feb 03 10:49:39 lucas: there's tons of icmp control in /proc/sys/net or where ever Feb 03 10:49:41 (which the wii guitar hero uses) Feb 03 10:49:44 Stskeeps: huh good to know Feb 03 10:49:45 slonopotamus: yup - hope so - I apt-get source'd git yesterday eve and built a optified armel .deb quite easily, so I'm going to give openjdk a go now...thanks. Feb 03 10:50:13 # cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/icmp_echo_ignore_all Feb 03 10:50:13 0 Feb 03 10:50:20 it's off Feb 03 10:50:29 mtd, how long it took to build? :) just curious Feb 03 10:50:30 I might be hitting the rate limit Feb 03 10:50:33 actually Feb 03 10:50:59 slonopotamus: compiling was the longest part - not longer than 15 mins or so on a small-ish VPS Feb 03 10:51:08 Stskeeps: but strictly speaking there's no reason at all to implement a firewall rule that coveres usb0/wlan0/etc when you are just trying to get the cell interface Feb 03 10:51:20 slonopotamus: I wasn't watching it too closely. Feb 03 10:51:29 xt: oh right. and you can put the original wii controller into the wii guitar Feb 03 10:51:42 red: exactly Feb 03 10:51:44 can you do that for wiimote? if yeah, then it's the controller problem solved Feb 03 10:52:05 I have used my wiimote as remote controller in a standard linux pc Feb 03 10:52:11 :) Feb 03 10:52:16 mtd, you didn't watch it compiling??? maan, that's the most exciting part of building software :) Feb 03 10:52:47 slonopotamus: that sentence brings to mind the picture with two lanes, left windows and installing things, right linux and installing things Feb 03 10:52:59 slonopotamus: you must not work in the software industry Feb 03 10:53:27 compile - error - google - dependencies compile - error - bang head - google - find vague instructions - compile - error - kill wife Feb 03 10:53:47 you forgot write buggy fs Feb 03 10:53:57 slothware industry Feb 03 10:54:09 someone beware, minike80 is about to spam Feb 03 10:54:15 minike80: please don't spam Feb 03 10:54:23 do it! Feb 03 10:54:27 :D Feb 03 10:54:28 :D Feb 03 10:54:30 ♥ Feb 03 10:54:31 lol, no spam \o/ Feb 03 10:54:57 haha, what Feb 03 10:55:03 smells like victory Feb 03 10:56:37 whats the command in sql to show up to x amount of hits Feb 03 10:56:49 can't figure out what to google it by well enough :) Feb 03 10:56:50 limit Feb 03 10:56:55 ah ofcourse, ty Feb 03 10:57:17 LIMIT in MySQL, TOP in most other SQL servers Feb 03 10:57:22 beware, though, it's not standard SQL, and I do remember two different engines implementing two different syntaxes for that Feb 03 10:57:23 slonopotamus, quit, quick! Feb 03 10:57:28 hm Feb 03 10:57:47 odin_, postgresql has limit too. Feb 03 10:58:02 and oracle is just broken in this aspect :) Feb 03 10:58:06 slonopotamus: you could just enforce nickchange ;) Feb 03 10:58:14 irrevelant now though :D Feb 03 10:58:23 oracle just doesn't believe in page requests :) Feb 03 10:58:27 red, how's that? Feb 03 10:59:25 slonopotamus: :) Feb 03 10:59:57 this 'one connection per one nick' is just stupid. let's move to xmpp. Feb 03 11:04:28 heya maemo Feb 03 11:04:40 hey wazd my fav theme maker Feb 03 11:04:42 :) Feb 03 11:06:14 :) Feb 03 11:07:23 ifreq: :D Feb 03 11:07:42 ifreq: I'm like James Cameron. One good theme in 10 years :D Feb 03 11:08:58 haha Feb 03 11:10:05 speaking of Cameron... watched Avatar yesterday and do not know what innovating people see in it. but I did not watched 3d movies before Feb 03 11:11:06 hrw: I've heard it's a lot like Pocahontas Feb 03 11:11:25 hrw: except in the future, and in 3D (OMG 3D OMG!!) Feb 03 11:11:41 its okay movie. much better than expected Feb 03 11:12:21 the plot is so completely predictable that you can only really watch it for the acting, action and special effects Feb 03 11:12:43 Damion2: heh Feb 03 11:12:45 I pretty much could have told you the outcome after the 1st 10 mins having watched the trailer before hand Feb 03 11:12:53 and I've not read/seen Pocahontas Feb 03 11:12:54 Damion2: well give me any disney movie which is not predictable :P Feb 03 11:12:54 Damion2: have you seen Titanic? :D Feb 03 11:13:09 wazd: yeah, OYG I couldn't believe it sank! Feb 03 11:13:12 Damion2: I was soooo surprised in the end :D Feb 03 11:13:18 wazd: or troy Feb 03 11:13:19 :P Feb 03 11:13:26 "omg theres ppl inside of the fucking horse" Feb 03 11:13:30 hm, I haven't even seen a trailer yet, but given the info of you guys, I don't want to go watch it anymore Feb 03 11:13:37 sorry to be ignorant...maemo5 sdk scratchbox is based on debian etch, right? So I would have best results building .debs for my n900 by starting with debian etch sources, right? Feb 03 11:13:40 ifreq: that's innovative! Feb 03 11:13:53 satmd: I found the 3d was good and the fx were impressively real, it's worth it IMO Feb 03 11:14:00 last yearst best movies: inglourious basterds (imo) :) Feb 03 11:14:06 mtd: not quite etch. some apps in maemo5 are older then etch Feb 03 11:14:17 true, but if I just wanted action w/o story, there's tons of stuff out there Feb 03 11:14:18 ifreq: worth renting on my ps3 for 4squid ? Feb 03 11:14:25 y Feb 03 11:14:29 Damion2: definitely Feb 03 11:14:50 okay, might do that. I want to see "year one" Feb 03 11:15:45 oh and District 9 when they give up waiting for people to pay ÂŁ11.99 and switch to rental Feb 03 11:15:47 I've found perfect maemo mascot: http://www.filmsquish.com/guts/files/images/thing2.JPG Feb 03 11:15:50 morning Feb 03 11:15:59 lardman: 'lo Feb 03 11:16:06 hi wazd Feb 03 11:16:26 hello anyone have experience with flac? Feb 03 11:16:35 bye Feb 03 11:16:36 http://pics.nase-bohren.de/allahtar.jpg Feb 03 11:16:41 hrw: cya Feb 03 11:17:33 * lardman hasn't look at TMO for ~4 days, wondering how long it will take to look at the new topics now... Feb 03 11:18:23 I'm having issues ripping CDs to flac. The file size of the flac rips is way too big, bigger than the wav counterpart. I've tried using both sound juicer and Rubyripper. Any idea what's going on? Feb 03 11:19:24 flac supports compression doesn't it? Can you change the level of compression Feb 03 11:19:43 also are you comparing to wav at the same bitrate and resolution? Feb 03 11:20:28 lardman, not sure both softwares I'm using don't really have a setting for that Feb 03 11:20:32 it's just "rip to flac" Feb 03 11:20:43 I guess it must be upsampling somehow Feb 03 11:21:06 what's the sample rate of a cd? Feb 03 11:21:54 44.1 KHz Feb 03 11:22:20 so are you ripping to wav then converting that to flac? Feb 03 11:22:35 ok.. soundjuicer has only an option for sample rate and it is 44.1 thats the only setting Feb 03 11:22:42 no just ripping straight to flac Feb 03 11:22:45 or straight to wav Feb 03 11:22:53 I just tried to wav to see the size difference... Feb 03 11:23:00 rip to cdda or wav and then flac them they'll definitely shrink to ~35% of teh size Feb 03 11:23:01 some flac files are >40MB Feb 03 11:23:12 that's bonkers Feb 03 11:23:46 mind you I find mp3/aac/ogg perfectly fine, I'm not one of those audiophiles Feb 03 11:24:08 I understand but I'd like the lossless format Feb 03 11:24:14 just dont get why it doesnt work Feb 03 11:24:36 320kbps should be enought for everyone Feb 03 11:24:36 well flac the wavs Feb 03 11:24:54 joppu: I was okay with 6kbps .ra format (realmedia) Feb 03 11:25:15 actually that's pretty low, but possibly the best encoding anyone has ever managed at that rate Feb 03 11:25:40 speex and gsm being okay ish for spoken stuff at 8-9kbps Feb 03 11:30:27 VDVsx: you should've removed the one on 77-56 as well Feb 03 11:31:14 crashanddie, humm ? :) Feb 03 11:31:59 I banned that dude temporarily yesterday for connection breaks, but forgot to unban :( Feb 03 11:35:52 * nomis waves Feb 03 11:35:57 cool :) Feb 03 11:36:43 FYI: removed the unidentified-user ban to allow nomis to talk Feb 03 11:37:05 Yeah, not that I had anything important to say :) Feb 03 11:37:22 (and I am identified again now, seems freenode forgot about this at some point) Feb 03 11:37:34 still, I don't like banning people from talking Feb 03 11:37:47 hello, is is possitble to sync gpe-calendar with evolution 2-way? Feb 03 11:38:08 with syncevolution Feb 03 11:38:15 or is it just one-way? Feb 03 11:38:19 IRC should be a quick and easy way to communicate -- having to create an account for that doesn't make it "quick and easy" Feb 03 11:41:37 crashanddie, the only problem are the spam bots, we enabled that because of those bastards Feb 03 11:41:57 VDVsx: I've had it deactivated since I became an op Feb 03 11:42:00 VDVsx: never seen them once Feb 03 11:42:09 VDVsx: I just activated earlier because I thought there was a bot Feb 03 11:42:57 a couple of days ago they attacked some channels where I hang around :P Feb 03 11:44:04 Jaffa: I won't make it this week Feb 03 11:45:05 Jaffa: we have a new release coming out tomorrow morning, I need to be full on this and will probably work on it throughout the weekend -- customer needs it running by Monday Feb 03 11:49:25 When I took this job, I liked the fact they were all pretty anal about doing only 9-5 days Feb 03 11:49:42 not so sure I like the fact they're keen on doing 9-5 days even on weekends! Feb 03 11:52:20 crashanddie: Fair enough Feb 03 11:52:55 9-5 7 days a week? Feb 03 11:55:02 oh that isn't intentional, just what they often want Feb 03 12:00:07 Stskeeps, ping Feb 03 12:04:55 hi all Feb 03 12:05:04 where i found polish translate for n800? Feb 03 12:14:16 mikexcr: you could ask hrw Feb 03 12:14:23 re by the way, got called away Feb 03 12:18:29 coming from a fedora world of complete OS reinstalls every 6 mos, I perceive maemo5 scratchbox's etch-based software versions to be quite old. Am I missing something / being unfair? Feb 03 12:19:23 * ShadowJK is guessing it's debian stable minus a year or two Feb 03 12:19:47 atleast it's not codesourcery 2005 anymore Feb 03 12:20:56 * mtd now thinks he's being unfair. etch is less than a year old. Feb 03 12:21:05 * RST38h moos at lardman and ShadowJK Feb 03 12:21:27 moo Feb 03 12:21:41 moo Feb 03 12:21:48 lardman: konttori has recently been inquiring about the problems with using gst plugins inside the stock Media Player Feb 03 12:22:10 and the fact the pipeline is hardcoded? Feb 03 12:22:19 lardman: I referred him to you (as you seem to know better), so you may want to talk to him about it Feb 03 12:22:21 lardman: yes Feb 03 12:22:33 ok, will see if I can catch him later on Feb 03 12:22:38 lardman: There may be some hope of fixing that, in some trivial way Feb 03 12:22:45 cool Feb 03 12:23:22 would be nice to be able to add arbitrary plugins to the pipeline of the media player and the camera app Feb 03 12:23:45 lardman: I secretely hope for some file in /etc or even a gconf value Feb 03 12:23:54 yep Feb 03 12:24:00 lardman: But you have to talk to konttori about it Feb 03 12:24:27 is he part of that team then? Feb 03 12:24:28 BTW, THAT is the reason why the gst subtitles plugin from repository is not working, correct? Feb 03 12:25:33 iirc, something about not using the bin component that would automatically pull in the subtitle plugin if it detected a subtitle in the same dir, etc Feb 03 12:26:42 mtd: no, not unusual to complain about :P Feb 03 12:27:15 Anyone used the OpenMAX H264 decoder? Feb 03 12:27:19 I can't get it to work. Feb 03 12:27:29 playbin screws it up andmanually it fails me. Feb 03 12:27:32 Stskeeps: heh Feb 03 12:28:36 alterego: screws it up how? Feb 03 12:28:45 does it work better than your manual pipeline? Feb 03 12:28:46 lardman: well, it doesn't work :P Feb 03 12:28:51 No, same error. Feb 03 12:28:55 if im building a sw and it has depency (lib) for another how I upload both to garage builder? Feb 03 12:29:02 I'll try it now and dump the output. Feb 03 12:29:05 yeah, well the manual pipeline should work Feb 03 12:29:25 alterego: might be best to ask in the #gstreamer channel for support and work out what you should use Feb 03 12:29:26 Okay, I'll give it another go. Feb 03 12:29:32 you may have already done so of course Feb 03 12:29:32 m'kay Feb 03 12:29:40 No, I've not actually :) Feb 03 12:32:33 Stskeeps: main issue is no armel arch for etch :(...lots of building (at best), here I come :) Feb 03 12:32:40 (main issue I'm hitting now) Feb 03 12:35:41 no terve Feb 03 13:00:21 Mac OS X 10.3 Ported to Nokia N900 -- Ported? :( Feb 03 13:00:34 lol Feb 03 13:00:51 :D Feb 03 13:01:11 andre__: hi. I just got notification, that you marked my keyboard-layout bug as invalid. ok, but shouldn't it be converted to ui-bug then? Feb 03 13:01:18 alterego, don't use the openmax decoder Feb 03 13:01:26 alterego, use dspvdec Feb 03 13:01:26 zaheerm: ff? Feb 03 13:01:36 zaheerm: cheers, Feb 03 13:01:39 andre__: preferences should visually distinguish hardware and virtual keyboard settings Feb 03 13:02:09 zaheerm: is dspvdec some kind of bin decoder? Feb 03 13:02:31 alterego, it uses the dsp directly rather than through openmax Feb 03 13:02:37 alterego, and is the preferred one Feb 03 13:03:11 the openmax plugin is only there for h264 encoding, because gst-dsp with h264 encoding doesn't work so well currently Feb 03 13:04:19 "Nokia's sore rival Apple's Mac OS X" .. Yeah right.. Feb 03 13:04:36 alterego, it is the sore rival to nokia's booklet 3g Feb 03 13:04:46 Yeah, Feb 03 13:05:03 a white macbook is same price as that booklet Feb 03 13:05:52 Heh Feb 03 13:09:04 I've only seen mac mini at same price as booklet :-) Feb 03 13:09:59 Does anyone here have the nokia netbook? Feb 03 13:10:26 JimiDini, looks like the User Guide is a bit vague here, can you file a report against it please? Feb 03 13:11:08 if it had ethernet I'd consider it :P Feb 03 13:12:16 Hrm, if it had Linux over Win7 I'd notcompletely feel disgusted? :P Feb 03 13:12:37 doesn't the booklet cost like 800 euros? Feb 03 13:12:39 Preorder only at the mo in the UK. Feb 03 13:12:52 Is it actually out yet? :) Feb 03 13:12:52 yah 647 i think Feb 03 13:13:05 its out in places outside uk Feb 03 13:13:15 heh, it's listed at same price as ipad here Feb 03 13:13:18 649 GBP on the .co.uk website at the moment :P Feb 03 13:13:28 or 200-ish cheaper than iphone..lol Feb 03 13:13:32 Well, I'd prefer it to an iPad ;) Feb 03 13:13:43 * alterego contemplates getting an iPad to install maemo on :P Feb 03 13:14:37 alterego: those are uncomparable ;) iPad is a consumer device, while booklet is a computer Feb 03 13:14:42 I thought iPhone was around 600 euros? Feb 03 13:14:50 JimiDini: hahah, right on :P Feb 03 13:15:21 a piece of glass same size as an ipad is also a consumer device Feb 03 13:15:26 so definitely comparasble to an ipad Feb 03 13:16:07 zaheerm: ipad definitely has more features than piece of glass :-p Feb 03 13:16:43 JimiDini, it lets me break into it without potentially being sued Feb 03 13:16:44 pekuja, 8GB, 16GB and 32GB iPhones cost 649, 900, 1000 EUR, respectively Feb 03 13:16:49 JimiDini: yes, you get a subscription to your new personal god Feb 03 13:17:07 ptman: hmm, that is more than I thought it was Feb 03 13:17:54 but they can be had cheaper with plans or specials Feb 03 13:18:10 well, no Feb 03 13:18:30 I remembered 3gs 32 as 1200E, must've dropped a bit :) Feb 03 13:18:44 as I found it at 899E now Feb 03 13:18:47 because the plans make up for the "savings" ten fold Feb 03 13:19:39 pekuja, depends on how much of the included "free" phones calls and sms you use Feb 03 13:19:45 but generally, you are correct Feb 03 13:19:57 sure Feb 03 13:20:11 operators like saying stuff is "free" Feb 03 13:20:32 especially stuff that you're payoning a lot of money for Feb 03 13:20:41 Free iphone! Only $120/mo! Feb 03 13:20:51 paying* Feb 03 13:20:52 (1200 month contract) Feb 03 13:20:59 lol Feb 03 13:21:04 exactly Feb 03 13:21:19 * JimiDini is not in the mood to argue about religious issues. All I care about is usability. iPad is similar to kitchen equipment or tv. those should be easy to use and not force me to think Feb 03 13:21:47 :-) Feb 03 13:21:55 I think the iPad might be a cool gaming device Feb 03 13:22:05 and maybe a portable video player Feb 03 13:23:03 I suspect format support is a bit limited? Feb 03 13:23:16 No flash :P Feb 03 13:23:38 [OT] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=052JJGBxFH0 Feb 03 13:23:52 alterego: no flash in browser. still, you can compile flash-project into iphone/ipad app Feb 03 13:26:38 not until Flash CS5 comes out Feb 03 13:28:43 there is a partial flash implementation in js Feb 03 13:48:17 well Feb 03 13:48:26 you have to give the iphone that... Feb 03 13:48:44 it did make the data plans a common and relatively cheap thing Feb 03 13:53:54 well, not where i live. Feb 03 13:54:21 we had cheap dataplans ages before steve jobs thought of the iphone Feb 03 13:54:41 perhaps, not in .se though... Feb 03 13:55:07 prior to that it was pretty much pay per MB, period Feb 03 13:55:07 zaheerm: partial is a nice paraphrase Feb 03 13:55:19 well, i dont know about sweden Feb 03 13:55:47 but in germany it was already cheap when the iphone was born Feb 03 13:56:52 they sell iphones here, but no cheap data plans Feb 03 13:56:53 furunk3l: i wouldn't say that it is cheap compared to normal dsl Feb 03 13:56:59 though that's what you get for living in a poor country Feb 03 13:59:04 scr4ve, why would you do that? Feb 03 13:59:07 :) Feb 03 13:59:48 furunk3l: afaik there are no unlimited data plans in germany below 50 bucks a month. Feb 03 14:02:17 scr4ve, you can get it for like 17,50, allthough its capped at 5GB and then switches to gprs. Feb 03 14:02:27 its kinda flatrate Feb 03 14:02:37 thresh: data plans here are ok Feb 03 14:02:45 furunk3l: gprs is not a flatrate, gprs is a bug ;) Feb 03 14:02:52 threash: Unless you meant "unlimited", not "cheap" Feb 03 14:03:29 ok? :o Feb 03 14:03:33 well, where here? :) Feb 03 14:03:46 RST38h: What I meant originally was basically that Iphone made data connections flatrate as they used to be charge per usage prior. Feb 03 14:03:56 threash: http://www.mts.ru/tariffs/inet/connect_2/ Feb 03 14:04:09 it's "thresh" kthx Feb 03 14:04:25 true dat Feb 03 14:04:55 RST38h: yeah but it's not unlimited at all :o Feb 03 14:05:24 * tybollt has a very nice dataplan, basically (real) unlimited 3g (not hspa) on the cheap. Add more monnehz and you get HSPA too. Feb 03 14:05:33 thresh: so, when they say unlimited, what does it mean? Feb 03 14:05:57 bullshit Feb 03 14:06:06 let's see... Feb 03 14:06:17 In Norway even the prepaid cards now have a maximum price per day for data traffic .... approx USD2 .... up to 200MB per month, then they'll cap the speed Feb 03 14:06:19 RST38h: you can be online as much time as you like Feb 03 14:06:22 thresh: what is BS? Feb 03 14:06:35 RST38h: so you have unlimited twitter or IRC Feb 03 14:06:44 it's all a load of ...backspace! Feb 03 14:07:02 dazo: a year ago ... it costed about 3.5 USD per MB Feb 03 14:07:10 SpeedEvil: No, no, they are not THAT naive Feb 03 14:07:18 has to be something else Feb 03 14:07:35 thresh: So, what exactly is the catch? Feb 03 14:07:45 non-working 3G i guess Feb 03 14:07:47 dazo: funny telenor are the only ones to give "real" umnlimited data plans here in .se AFAIU :) Feb 03 14:08:07 Oh I found it Feb 03 14:08:08 i will probably hit some mts store today and ask the guys about it Feb 03 14:08:18 thresh: I found it. It is quite ok in fact. Feb 03 14:08:29 i'm using megafon anyway Feb 03 14:08:39 tybollt: that's Telenor in Norway which got that deal as well .... and you only pay for the days you use it .... and Telenor is usually the most expensive supplier Feb 03 14:09:10 * RST38h finds that pastebin does not understand Unicode. The hard way. Feb 03 14:09:17 use dumpz.org Feb 03 14:09:20 thresh: Well, do not complain then :) Feb 03 14:09:24 it's ok with cyrillic Feb 03 14:09:28 Another poor soul cursed by Megafon Feb 03 14:09:45 well Feb 03 14:09:58 works nicely Feb 03 14:09:58 thresh: Here is the catch: http://dumpz.org/16631/ Feb 03 14:10:06 thresh: Not bad, really Feb 03 14:10:22 well Feb 03 14:10:28 what i really need is not speed Feb 03 14:10:34 but a low lag Feb 03 14:10:37 Ah Feb 03 14:10:50 But it does not depend on business decisions by operators Feb 03 14:11:12 somehow i really doubt that crippled EDGE can provide fast enough connection if you only change the tariff Feb 03 14:11:23 dazo: no... I mean I have a dataplan where I pay SEK 99/month and have unlimited data... Feb 03 14:11:26 and we don't have 3G here too Feb 03 14:11:59 tybollt: ahh ... neat ... well Telenor got 500MB limit for that plan in Norway ... NOK99/month Feb 03 14:12:02 any good alternatives to pastebin? (mainly cleaner looking) Feb 03 14:12:15 red: pastebin.ca? Feb 03 14:12:23 red: paste2.org Feb 03 14:12:26 i've been using the .com Feb 03 14:12:32 slexy.org ? Feb 03 14:12:52 dazo: the only limit AFAICT is that the speed is capped at HSDPA/WCDMA and will never go up to HSPA Feb 03 14:13:16 .ca looks nice Feb 03 14:13:17 tybollt: that's 7.2MBit or so? Feb 03 14:13:18 tybollt, UMTS, you mean? Feb 03 14:14:41 paste2.org wins the game :) Feb 03 14:14:47 looked the sleekest Feb 03 14:14:57 GeneralAntilles: frankly I got kind of lost in ol of those BS acronyms :) but, 384k/bits tops and not the >MB shitz. Feb 03 14:15:11 tybollt, UMTS Feb 03 14:15:20 HSPA and HSDPA are roughly the same thing Feb 03 14:15:20 GeneralAntilles: if you say so, I trust you :) Feb 03 14:15:24 and WCDMA is all of them. Feb 03 14:15:30 3G vs 3.5G is easier. ;) Feb 03 14:16:00 yeah Feb 03 14:18:12 JimiDini: do you know how long does paste2.org conserve my pastes? Feb 03 14:18:16 couldnt find it anywhere Feb 03 14:18:17 tybollt: be happy! I'm living in the Czech Repbulic now .... and they don't provide 3G for "normal" customers here at all .... it's only 2.5G, not even sure if it is EDGE .... and it is expensive as hell Feb 03 14:18:42 dazo: ? :S Feb 03 14:18:50 dazo: why are they that anal? Feb 03 14:18:54 red: nope Feb 03 14:19:19 dazo: well it is Czech rep... they spent ol the monneh on beer :P Feb 03 14:19:20 tybollt: I dunno .... I hate it ... but it's T-Mobile, Vodaphone and O2 which have the power here .... Feb 03 14:19:44 vodaphone pretty much ePICFAILed in .se Feb 03 14:19:48 I think I have found the best YouTube comment ever Feb 03 14:20:03 crashanddie: do spill Feb 03 14:20:17 On a CSI Miami vid Feb 03 14:20:20 "You're not gonna believe this, but semen was found in the victim's mouth!" Feb 03 14:20:27 "Well, the truth is always" Feb 03 14:20:31 *sunglasses* Feb 03 14:20:37 "Hard to swallow" Feb 03 14:20:44 YYEEAAAAHHHHHH Feb 03 14:20:47 crashanddie: :-D Feb 03 14:21:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sarYH0z948 Feb 03 14:21:22 Best. Comment. Ever Feb 03 14:21:27 yub Feb 03 14:21:38 crashanddie, CSI Miami is bad for your health. Feb 03 14:22:00 mental health atleast Feb 03 14:22:54 it is TV... it is all crap Feb 03 14:23:11 GeneralAntilles: you mean you floridians don't usually say a heavily paused sentence, intersected by adding a piece of fashion equipment, followed by an off-angle camera walk-out? Feb 03 14:23:42 (and I have absolutely no idea if that is the correct name for citizens of Florida) Feb 03 14:24:29 Yeah, Floridians Feb 03 14:24:31 and no. Feb 03 14:28:02 oh baby, I'm lovin those recommendations coming in: http://www.linkedin.com/ppl/webprofile?vmi=&id=30401713&pvs=pp&authToken=q_c_&authType=name&locale=en_US&trk=ppro_viewmore&lnk=vw_pprofile#recommendations Feb 03 14:30:50 so right Feb 03 14:31:03 how cold is helsinki atm? Feb 03 14:31:13 -4 Feb 03 14:31:20 frals: omweather or foreca would tell you ;P Feb 03 14:31:28 humidity 80% Feb 03 14:31:32 re Feb 03 14:31:33 tybollt: first hand experience > weathersites! ;) Feb 03 14:31:41 and a wind from the east at 11km/h Feb 03 14:31:41 frals: fair enough ;) Feb 03 14:31:57 6th season of Lost is an absolute brain damager Feb 03 14:32:03 Hey.. anyone there already using "Desktop Command Execution" widget? I just promoted a new (maybe final) version to -testing. The previous version had 7 thumbs up already... any testing is appreciated! Feb 03 14:32:07 mikexcr: check http://internet-tablet.pl/ forum - there was unofficial Polish translation for os2008 Feb 03 14:32:58 wazd: any season of lost is a brain damager Feb 03 14:33:11 crashanddie++ Feb 03 14:33:24 crashanddie: no, I mean this is the REAL damager :) Feb 03 14:33:28 crashanddie++ Feb 03 14:33:35 well its the last one (finally) Feb 03 14:33:50 should probably save those eps for the flight tomorrow Feb 03 14:34:26 traveling to warmer places? Feb 03 14:34:33 yes... Helsinki :P Feb 03 14:34:37 Oceanic 815? :D Feb 03 14:34:41 frals: ;-P Feb 03 14:34:48 or 12, I can't remember :) Feb 03 14:35:02 wazd: Do not create a television series about a group of people who crash-land on an island if you don’t know where you’re going with it! Feb 03 14:35:20 wazd: Don’t just make it up as you go along, because if you do, it’s going to start sucking very quickly! Feb 03 14:35:42 wazd: I’m talking, of course, about Desperate Housewives, which is just awful Feb 03 14:35:55 * VDVsx likes lost :) Feb 03 14:36:03 Terri Hatcher, you're a beautiful woman, but please grow old gracefully and without the facial work. You're not allowed to have an exoskeleton unless you’re a beetle. Feb 03 14:36:20 hahahaha Feb 03 14:36:29 lol Feb 03 14:36:47 frals: anyway flight to helsinki is what, one hour? You won't be able to crack open your laptop in that tome :) Feb 03 14:36:50 time Feb 03 14:36:57 tybollt: i got my n900! ;) Feb 03 14:37:21 yeah that... I had the "funniest" experience... back in the day... my brand new SE P1... Feb 03 14:38:03 "No miss flighat attendant - it is a phone which you can turn off the antena of, so I'm just using it to listen to music" ... that almost got me handcuffed ;) Feb 03 14:38:10 lol Feb 03 14:38:45 And, if I may, I would like to paraphrase Dickens, but instead of Christmas traditions, I am speaking today of vaginas when I say, "They have never put one scrap of gold in my pocket, but they bring a smile to my face, so therefore, I declare them good." Feb 03 14:39:42 Hrm, how do I get the little arrow next to the window title signifying there'sa menu to be used? Feb 03 14:39:56 > Feb 03 14:39:57 it's a good thing you need only vaginas. Mock ones are so much easier to get anyway! Feb 03 14:40:03 ... Feb 03 14:40:05 shift and the key for "dot" Feb 03 14:40:36 * dazo once flew to Helsinki ... and the flight attendant asked me if my Sony MD player was a digital or analogue device Feb 03 14:40:39 because I would not be allowed to have any digital device turned on Feb 03 14:40:56 lol Feb 03 14:40:58 "Yeah, sure it's analogue ... it's like a walkman", I said Feb 03 14:41:09 Can't seem to findan option on "StackableWindow"/"HildonWindow" would have thought it'#d be automatic when you set the menu. :/ Feb 03 14:41:39 hrw: thanks :) Feb 03 14:41:40 actually, now they even ban just having earbuds in your ears Feb 03 14:41:46 odd - HAM just started pulling some big set of updates down after alerting about two packages (only)... Feb 03 14:41:53 they say that the pressure change could damage my hears Feb 03 14:42:08 ... Feb 03 14:42:29 s/ h/ / Feb 03 14:42:29 crashanddie meant: they say that the pressure change could damage my ears Feb 03 14:42:54 this would be sane - if the phones hermetically sealed the ears Feb 03 14:42:56 alterego, I think it's contra-indicated by the UI spec. Feb 03 14:43:04 alterego, but Nokia's totally inconsistent about it. Feb 03 14:43:42 crashanddie, WTF, never had problems with phones, tablets or music players on board, lol Feb 03 14:43:44 GeneralAntilles: I don't get you. Are you saying fremantle randomly puts it there when it feels like it? Or is their an API call to do it? :P Feb 03 14:43:58 VDVsx: do you fly 6 times a month? Feb 03 14:44:02 VDVsx: isn't that the point though... Feb 03 14:44:22 crashanddie, no, and I always fly in nice companies :D Feb 03 14:44:23 VDVsx: the airlines are in NO WAY consistent about this banning of devices... Feb 03 14:44:41 VDVsx: yeah, my assistant books my flights, and my comfort comes after the credit card bill Feb 03 14:44:41 mostly low coast :D Feb 03 14:44:42 question: did os2008 supports A2DP headphones out-of-box? Feb 03 14:45:09 alterego, I mean that I don't think the UI spec recommends using it anymore. Feb 03 14:45:18 s/ coast / cost/ Feb 03 14:45:19 VDVsx meant: mostly low cost:D Feb 03 14:45:38 Delta's never bugged me about devices, either. Feb 03 14:45:39 plane coasting, the new low-cost travel option! Feb 03 14:45:41 anyone poked into streaming pulse audio streams from the N900 to a computer over WLAN? Feb 03 14:45:52 GeneralAntilles: delta's always bugged me about it Feb 03 14:46:03 crashanddie, aside from takeoff and landing, of course. Feb 03 14:46:04 GeneralAntilles: delta, virgin and american Feb 03 14:46:09 thats because you take your desktop computer onto the plane Feb 03 14:46:13 well, yeah, that's what I'm talking about Feb 03 14:46:13 alterego, I think it's a hold-over from Diablo days. Feb 03 14:46:18 lcuk: :D Feb 03 14:46:20 and expect to use the next tray table for your mousemat Feb 03 14:46:21 crashanddie, well, that's FAA, sooo .. . Feb 03 14:46:29 well it's stupid Feb 03 14:46:33 there's nothing that's going to happen Feb 03 14:46:38 crashanddie, I agree, but it's not the airline's fault. ;) Feb 03 14:46:41 no, my mp3 player will not cause the engines to fail Feb 03 14:46:58 no, my camera will not cause the oxygen masks to dangle in front of our faces and annoy us right before we die Feb 03 14:47:15 eheh Feb 03 14:47:28 the airline staff do not need degrees in technology capabilities, if they see electronic devices they are entitled to ask you to turn them off Feb 03 14:47:35 does anyone know of a way to get an n900 to push mp3s to Windows 7 media renderer with uPnP? Feb 03 14:47:39 from what I gather the ban on cellphones in the air is because they start flapping between the phone companies radio equipment essentially hogging them Feb 03 14:47:47 i wouldn't mind having a device that can cause the oxygen masks to fall whenever i want to Feb 03 14:47:51 lcuk: not complaining about the airliners, complaining about the rules Feb 03 14:47:54 there is no way they can know what its capable of doing, and frankly if you are gonna argue with them you shouldnt be on a plane Feb 03 14:47:59 lcuk: also, read my last blogpost, about ryanair Feb 03 14:47:59 * dazo is happy N900 looks more like an MP3 player than a mobile phone ... might not make flight attendants worry too much unless pulling out the keyboard Feb 03 14:48:02 mythbusters busted that myth :) Feb 03 14:48:04 well, not last, quite some time ago now Feb 03 14:48:10 thresh: which one? Feb 03 14:48:20 30k feet is generally too high to get a real signal in most places. Feb 03 14:48:26 whether mobiles are risky on planes Feb 03 14:48:33 GeneralAntilles: do not get into politics Feb 03 14:48:43 You'd be moving between ground stations too quickly for it to work well anyway. Feb 03 14:48:44 I have a nice gps trace from a flight Mexico-Madrid Feb 03 14:48:53 (not all the flight, my n810 died before, but still) Feb 03 14:48:56 But that doesn't have anything to do with interfering with plane electronics. Feb 03 14:49:17 GeneralAntilles: you might accidentally run into Catherine Harris Feb 03 14:49:29 ohshit Feb 03 14:49:35 GeneralAntilles: This is a woman who could stand next to Hitler and people would still go "Who's the bitch?" Feb 03 14:49:44 GeneralAntilles: but I think that is the thing, moving very quickly between ground stations causes problems w/ the stations... Iono, just hearsay on my part :) Feb 03 14:50:05 tybollt: you're too high for the signal anyway Feb 03 14:50:07 crashanddie: no that's ann coulter, thank-you-very-much Feb 03 14:50:37 You'd be hard pressed to find any signal at 10k ft (3km) Feb 03 14:50:45 crashanddie, I'm just waiting for the TSA to decide everybody has to fly nude. Feb 03 14:50:59 GeneralAntilles: I dunno Feb 03 14:51:03 * GeneralAntilles can't imagine how much money is being lost because of the security theater and border control insanity. Feb 03 14:51:17 GeneralAntilles: fat guys could still hide bombs between their fat lumps Feb 03 14:51:24 Here's an easy way to fix the economy, don't anally probe tourists. Feb 03 14:51:38 Man take control of a 747 with his mobile phone, he hacks into flyby-wireless, by decrypting the WPA key and accidentally presses the engine ejection botton Feb 03 14:51:39 just visualize them naked Feb 03 14:51:47 odin_: CSI! Feb 03 14:51:54 crashanddie, that's why we have those new radiowave imagers. Feb 03 14:52:06 GeneralAntilles: they reflect off human flesh Feb 03 14:52:29 crashanddie, then clearly we need more powerful radiowaves. Feb 03 14:52:32 "excuse me dsir, is that a stick of dynamite or are you just pleased to see me" Feb 03 14:52:39 * LinuxCode hides his bomb up his backside Feb 03 14:52:47 *hint* Feb 03 14:52:51 LinuxCode: I hope for you that's a small bomb Feb 03 14:52:51 everyone has to fly in a gimpsuit wearing a ballgag Feb 03 14:52:56 crashanddie, hehe Feb 03 14:53:01 or, remind me not to go to the toilet after you Feb 03 14:53:04 LinuxCode: Will you dump...mhmmm...core then? Feb 03 14:53:16 security is such a joke Feb 03 14:53:23 staff is the biggest issue anyway Feb 03 14:53:34 oh, btw, I have a picture of the Delta on-board entertainment system crashing and booting LInux Feb 03 14:53:47 * RST38h sees it every time he enters the plane Feb 03 14:53:50 crashanddie, now that is something Id like to see Feb 03 14:53:59 the thing actually shows a plain X11 screen with the crosshatch cursor Feb 03 14:54:01 Virgin America runs RedHat. Feb 03 14:54:07 crashanddie: I've experienced the same with Windows Embedded .... 3 times in a flight ... then I gave up :-P Feb 03 14:54:27 Cathay runs Java, remotely Feb 03 14:54:34 (you can imagine the speed of this thing) Feb 03 14:54:38 derf, virgin anywhere runs redhat Feb 03 14:54:43 Delta really needs to update the entertainment equipment on their planes. Feb 03 14:55:05 lcuk: Well, one would assume, but I haven't flown anywhere. Feb 03 14:55:06 "I can sing a rainbow" Feb 03 14:55:11 Delta needs to stop cancelling their flights first Feb 03 14:55:18 yeah Feb 03 14:55:27 And stop fucking passengers over, blaming it on "acts of God" Feb 03 14:55:28 there should be a book club on flights Feb 03 14:55:32 RST38h: No fucking kidding. Feb 03 14:55:33 RST38h: that explains a lot! I flew Cathay from New Zealand to Hong Kong ... and it was not exactly impressive Feb 03 14:55:34 a selection of books left for readers Feb 03 14:55:46 LinuxCode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi7kD5lRLh8 Feb 03 14:55:47 They cancelled my flight for _rain_. Feb 03 14:55:55 dazo: Outside of the entertainment system, Cathay rules Feb 03 14:56:06 Rain that lasted for 15 minutes and was 6 hours before the flight. Feb 03 14:56:14 crashanddie, hahah sweet Feb 03 14:56:24 RST38h: except the seat distance is not so suitable for Europeans as Chinese in economy class :-P Feb 03 14:56:27 derf: I spent a day in Atlanta ghetto once Feb 03 14:56:40 * SpeedEvil retries https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026 - no SIM - location cache removed and modem told to forget GPS position. Feb 03 14:56:44 Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view Feb 03 14:56:44 dazo: Was ok for me. Way more than on Lufthansa anyway Feb 03 14:56:45 derf: well, it's not the rain, it's the winds and stuff Feb 03 14:56:48 LinuxCode: and it will reboot at random times during the flight... in the middle of a movie, in the middle of a poker game, etc Feb 03 14:56:52 first attempt - lock in 10 mins with no SIM Feb 03 14:56:59 familiar used to have a tux logo in the upper left corner if I recall right Feb 03 14:57:05 angasule: I don't believe that. Feb 03 14:57:16 The airport didn't shut down. Feb 03 14:57:19 Hi, is there a maemo meeting/booth/something at Fosdem? Feb 03 14:57:19 It was just Delta. Feb 03 14:57:25 RST38h: I flew Hong Kong to Frankfurt with LH ... and on our flight that was more spacious, tbh ... but no seat entertainment :( Feb 03 14:57:27 derf: 10 hours on a transatlantic flight, 3 hours in a line, then they tell me that my flight is cancelled and all the other flights cancelled too Feb 03 14:57:28 Don't use the Virgin 1st class pyjamas, they are polycotton and bloody hot Feb 03 14:57:28 crashanddie, probably power reset Feb 03 14:57:43 LinuxCode: no, it happens on individual seats Feb 03 14:57:47 weird Feb 03 14:57:50 I was just going from DC to NY, so I took the train. Feb 03 14:57:50 derf: No accommodations, "it is an act of god, sir, crosswinds in DC, sir" Feb 03 14:57:59 LinuxCode: it actually says: Kernel panic Feb 03 14:58:03 crashanddie, haha ok Feb 03 14:58:08 idiots Feb 03 14:58:09 lardman: where the hell'd you change clothes? :) Feb 03 14:58:10 derf: then the rain had nothing to do with it :P Feb 03 14:58:19 tybollt: in your seat Feb 03 14:58:22 tybollt: on the main page Feb 03 14:58:26 angasule: This is what I'm saying. Feb 03 14:58:29 jenskuehnel: see http://wiki.maemo.org/FOSDEM_2010 Feb 03 14:58:31 derf: Another 2 hours in line to the hotel buses, then 2 hours walking empty plazas looking for food, trying to avoid ghettomobiles coming to buy booze Feb 03 14:58:40 tybollt: seat/pull out bed/etc Feb 03 14:58:45 lardman: so what are you thinking about becoming the official maemo mascot? Feb 03 14:58:49 crashanddie: Happend to me as well on a Delta Flight, Linuxpinguin and redboot Feb 03 14:58:53 derf: But THAT is not all yet :) Feb 03 14:58:56 derf: probably some mechanical issues, a good idea not to get on the plane anyway heh Feb 03 14:58:57 amigadave: Thanks Feb 03 14:58:58 crashanddie: well I do have exposure ;) Feb 03 14:59:01 they have a lot of fun in first class don't they? :) Feb 03 14:59:16 tybollt: nah was quite dull, no-one to talk to Feb 03 14:59:28 derf: 3 hours in security line next day (was the longest line I have ever seen, .RU included), they send me to NYC, I arrive there and my flight to BWI is cancelled Feb 03 14:59:51 lardman, check the thread. :P Feb 03 14:59:54 derf: At that point in time, I started invoking lawyers on them, loudly Feb 03 15:00:03 GeneralAntilles: thread? Feb 03 15:00:05 on TMO? Feb 03 15:00:08 was trying to avoid it Feb 03 15:00:10 RST38h: Did that fix anything? Feb 03 15:00:15 derf: Kinda Feb 03 15:00:21 lardman http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=507809#post507809 Feb 03 15:00:39 derf: The girl became agitated, then offended, then gave me a ticket to some flight from LaGuardia and a vaucher to take a cab Feb 03 15:00:53 a cab voucher? Feb 03 15:00:54 wtf! Feb 03 15:00:55 derf: The cabby has not accepted their voucher, but $20 bill did the job Feb 03 15:00:56 GeneralAntilles, crashanddie: ah I see now, lol Feb 03 15:00:58 did you slap her? Feb 03 15:01:22 tybollt: I paid GBP800 instead of 30 to get back to the UK in early Jan Feb 03 15:01:39 where were you so desparate to get out of? Feb 03 15:01:49 I was desperate to get back to work Feb 03 15:01:56 http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/2010/01/planes-in-spain-cause-passengers-pain.html Feb 03 15:02:08 (my longest blog post ever) Feb 03 15:02:59 crashanddie: ah, you should have gone for "pain in spain falls mainly on the plane (passenger)" Feb 03 15:03:15 tl;dr Feb 03 15:03:29 I'll skim Feb 03 15:03:34 lardman: yeah yeah, at least you got the reference Feb 03 15:04:03 :) Feb 03 15:06:33 I really must check TMO more often, still scrolling past titles of new posts.... Feb 03 15:06:52 lardman, I had 10 pages this morning. Feb 03 15:06:56 Opened about 2 threads in tabs. Feb 03 15:07:01 I've topped out at 500 new Feb 03 15:08:36 it's rather unusable Feb 03 15:08:59 there should be a TMO for unix experts whether they know maemo or not, and one for noobs wanting stuff or moaning about how they didn't get an iphone Feb 03 15:09:13 separating them like that would get a lot more stuff done Feb 03 15:10:34 anyway, I'm out guys Feb 03 15:10:42 have a good day, or whatever your timezone provides you Feb 03 15:10:43 GeneralAntilles: Thanks, good to know. Seems likea reasonibly good UI guide to me though :) Feb 03 15:11:44 Hrm, what's the recommended video output sink for the N900? Feb 03 15:12:15 xvimagesink Feb 03 15:12:19 Damion2: perhaps a good research project for a NL classifier would be to implement such a categorisation. Feb 03 15:12:40 cu crashanddie Feb 03 15:12:41 lardman: damnit, would have to be the one that leaves artefacts all over the place and doesn't look pretty on the dashboard :P Feb 03 15:12:46 Though it is quick .. Feb 03 15:13:08 turn off the widget backbuffer Feb 03 15:13:19 lardman: m'kay ... Feb 03 15:13:22 and you only get the last image remaining Feb 03 15:14:21 lardman: you got a func name? Feb 03 15:14:39 * alterego checks GtkWidget Feb 03 15:14:48 let me have a look Feb 03 15:15:02 I bet it's part of gdk actually. Feb 03 15:15:41 Is it double buffering? Feb 03 15:16:08 gtk_widget_set_double_buffered (appdata->screen, FALSE); Feb 03 15:16:09 yep Feb 03 15:16:12 alterego, dunno, it takes up valuable space in the titlebar Feb 03 15:16:16 Right. Feb 03 15:16:27 alterego, and all applications should have a menu there. Feb 03 15:16:36 Should they? Feb 03 15:16:36 So it doesn't really indicate anything useful except for first-time users. Feb 03 15:16:44 Nearly all Feb 03 15:16:49 anyone got any experience of an external h264 encoder with linux support? I'd like to more trivially and quickly convert loads of stuff to n900, e90, n97 and ps3 rather than sit for hours waiting for ffmpeg Feb 03 15:17:18 why do you doubt the speed of ffmpeg? Feb 03 15:17:40 Erm, all the h264 encoders we use at work are live streaming, not like a dedicated transcoder. Feb 03 15:18:18 lardman: cos I use it at the moment and it takes ages on my netbook Feb 03 15:18:53 especially if I want to encode for my psp which benefits greatly from loads of hq quantitisation settings Feb 03 15:21:18 lardman: if I power up my noisy desktop it's faster but still not likely to be as nice as a fast dedicated usb stick Feb 03 15:21:24 ah I see, more involved than transcoding on the fly though Feb 03 15:21:26 Damion2: Well, you can get a Quad Core Dell Poweredge with 8GB of RAM as an external transcoder :P Feb 03 15:21:28 optimize your time Feb 03 15:22:00 Stskeeps: marina theme can be freely used as base for own themes? Feb 03 15:22:18 Damion2: I don;t know if a dedicated hw transcoder will apply the various settings you want Feb 03 15:22:48 lardman: that's one major concern Feb 03 15:23:06 if true then okay, that idle thought is over Feb 03 15:23:11 run it as an overnight batch job Feb 03 15:24:55 one issue is that I've still not quite got settings I'm happy with so a lot of it is tests and some settings are so slow that I have to wait a few mibnutes for just the 1st 30seconds of a show and that's often just the titles Feb 03 15:25:31 patience! Feb 03 15:25:41 a few minutes, that's nothing! :) Feb 03 15:25:41 also I keep getting random difference sources to encode from, some don't work and I need to do something like mencode to a large more common format with next to no compression to avoid as much loss as possible before the reencode Feb 03 15:26:22 decompress to a format with *no* compression otherwise you will get losses no matter what Feb 03 15:26:45 unless the format you compress to can use the compressed data directly of course Feb 03 15:27:24 lardman: I'm not made of disk :) Also I can't really see the artifacts if I select something like a 9000kbps mpeg2 Feb 03 15:28:00 sometimes I want a feature from ffmpeg, or mencoder but they can't read the initial format so I tend to use mpeg2 in high bitrates Feb 03 15:28:27 all rather too involved for me I must admit :) Feb 03 15:28:54 my favourite solution is ffmpeg -i filename.something -acodec copy -vcodec copy -vtag DIVX output.avi which is what I take from bbc redux'es h264 with mp3 (rather than the more noemal aac), as my ps3 then likes the vtag Feb 03 15:29:09 lardman: video transcoding has been the bane of my life for the past few years Feb 03 15:29:20 I'm getting vary familar with it, but it's still a right pain Feb 03 15:29:27 and it's not like it gets much easier in windows or mac Feb 03 15:32:32 * dazo wonders how well N900 would work as a router .... :-P Feb 03 15:33:03 route from to? Feb 03 15:33:09 wlan->umts? Feb 03 15:33:48 dazo: poorly with default kernel Feb 03 15:33:58 dazo: Iptables is not included Feb 03 15:34:13 * satmd wants ipv6 :( Feb 03 15:34:34 I'm have a openvpn setup on it which I don't want to copy to my workstation at work .... so routing WLAN to a network via OpenVPN Feb 03 15:35:02 it should route perfectly well Feb 03 15:35:07 well, putty/ssh can do a socks-proxy emulation through sshd Feb 03 15:35:08 gah .... openvpn from work didn't work via UDP .... Feb 03 15:35:11 just turn on ip forwarding Feb 03 15:35:18 if yuo want NAT that;'s a whole can of worms Feb 03 15:35:18 * satmd has not tested n900's sshd, but I suppose that'd work Feb 03 15:35:27 yeah, with ip_forward enabled, it should work in theory Feb 03 15:35:55 Good point about the socks proxy Feb 03 15:35:55 a 600Mhz arm linux box, it should route pretty impressively IMO Feb 03 15:36:30 Has any one enabled any iptables packages? I'd like to see a some firewalling on it actually Feb 03 15:36:32 squid and ssh with -o COnnectProxy ./httpconnectusingthing remote.host Feb 03 15:36:40 you get the idea I can't remember the exact stuff Feb 03 15:37:02 dazo: yes iptables is available, but the kernel lacks some modules, and it gets worse Feb 03 15:37:10 worse!? Feb 03 15:37:37 http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ARM-N95-LEGO-Rubik-s-cube,9566.html Feb 03 15:37:39 cool Feb 03 15:42:19 daze: modules that need existing kernel options enabled within the main kernel not a module, and so you need to do the whole kernel Feb 03 15:42:38 dazo: there are long threads on TMO about this Feb 03 15:43:14 Damion2: so the kernel just needs to be recompiled? ... nah, that's doable Feb 03 15:44:09 dazo, firewalling, mm a firewall blocks data on specific ports from being passed to the app listening to that port, which apps need firewalling? Feb 03 15:44:44 * frals preloads ovi maps with some finnish maps Feb 03 15:44:56 You'd be surprised, dazo. If you have luck with a PR1.1 kernel let me know. Feb 03 15:45:04 lcuk: I just want to lock down incoming traffic, I do have SSH running, and that should only be available from selected WLANs .... and not when being connected via the mobile network Feb 03 15:45:06 frade: espoo area - eh? :P Feb 03 15:45:22 wazd: you around bud? Feb 03 15:45:35 frals: walkthru plx :) Feb 03 15:45:50 Xisdibik: sure Feb 03 15:45:54 dazo, you might find some interesting tidbits here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba Feb 03 15:46:07 ScribbleJ: cool! thx! Feb 03 15:46:52 red: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2009/10/13/downloading_ovi_maps_without_a_network_c courtsey of Jaffa ;) Feb 03 15:47:33 wazd: pm, its easier ;) Feb 03 15:47:35 download Ovi maps without internets?! Feb 03 15:48:04 it's a miracle! Feb 03 15:48:15 tybollt, more in Helsinki ;) Feb 03 15:49:30 wazd, ehehe, is more like using "ovi maps without internet" Feb 03 15:53:55 ehr Feb 03 15:54:02 s/frade/frals/ Feb 03 15:54:15 dazo: there was a discussion yesterday* about booting your own kernel, it;s none trivial and it's unclear how reliably it's been done, if at all by anyone so far Feb 03 15:54:22 some binary only stuff not available from nokia... Feb 03 15:54:23 Helsinki area ;) Feb 03 15:54:38 * for some value of yesterday where I don't know what TZ people are in. Feb 03 15:56:00 Damion2: gah ... so there are bits which seems not to be ABI safe .... hmmmm ..... just found https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7972 Feb 03 15:56:02 Bug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found Feb 03 15:56:33 hrw, cc sa 2.5 Feb 03 15:57:08 http://paste2.org/p/647068 - any suggestions? Feb 03 15:57:43 Stskeeps: ok Feb 03 15:58:04 (so yes) Feb 03 15:58:24 scr4ve: looks like you're missing a library which the app is depending on Feb 03 15:58:55 scr4ve: the libpysidebase library is missing another library most probably Feb 03 15:59:47 dazo: I just ran apt-get install pyside-qt4-gui Feb 03 15:59:55 So what's the missing lib? Feb 03 16:00:46 scr4ve: could even be that you're having a too old library .... try to figure out which Qt4 libs pyside-qt4-gui depends on Feb 03 16:01:35 dazo: import PyQt4 works Feb 03 16:01:38 PySide doesnt. Feb 03 16:02:40 ouch Feb 03 16:02:50 scr4ve: but it looks like PySide is using a function which is not located in another library ... which PyQt4 then most probably don't use ... thus the library loaded (ld.so) will not complain about missing symbols Feb 03 16:03:03 scr4ve: which libqt4-maemo5-* package versions do you have? Feb 03 16:03:37 scr4ve: dpkg -l 'libqt4-maemo5-*' will tell you this Feb 03 16:03:42 latest from extra devel i guess. Feb 03 16:03:43 mom Feb 03 16:04:32 it's 4.6.2-git20100 Feb 03 16:05:24 scr4ve: unfortunately libqt4-maemo5-* packages (i.e. beta snapshots for 4.6) are still changing binary compatibility, so we need to rebuild pyside on each new snapshot :( once the ABI stabilizes we should not have these "undefined symbol" errors anymore Feb 03 16:05:29 * dazo would guess that's too old Feb 03 16:05:43 ah ok Feb 03 16:05:57 dazo: just ran apt-get update Feb 03 16:06:43 scr4ve: yeah, but lizardo's answer makes a lot of sense now .... if ABI is not stabilised, you're going to see such errors Feb 03 16:06:59 so okay. Feb 03 16:07:13 I'll go on with PyQt4 and no portrait mode support :-) Feb 03 16:07:28 E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/. Feb 03 16:07:30 :( Feb 03 16:07:43 satmd, symlink it to the internal card Feb 03 16:08:16 * dazo thinks that /usr and /var partitions should be using LVM ....... Feb 03 16:09:18 satmd: Had the same problem 3 hours ago, Nokia should really think about something Feb 03 16:09:45 nokia did think about it Feb 03 16:10:05 not hard enough :) Feb 03 16:10:05 they took the quick'n'dirty fix and perpetuated it I suppose :) Feb 03 16:11:13 apt-get isn't really a supported installation method. Feb 03 16:12:02 worked for me though Feb 03 16:12:23 well, upgrading via the gui didn't even get that far Feb 03 16:12:33 it stuck saying 'no updates available' Feb 03 16:13:06 The problem is that a lot of thinks don't work if root is full. I noticed first the display intensity didn't work anymore. Feb 03 16:13:10 thresh, the definition of "supported" being "Nokia does not ensure that installing or upgrading software using apt-get will be either safe or convenient." Feb 03 16:14:58 where's that note that says root on nand was supposed to be the quickändirty fix but not for the lonf haul? Feb 03 16:15:09 I found it pretty hilarious :) Feb 03 16:15:12 Er? Feb 03 16:15:54 you mean /opt Feb 03 16:15:55 GeneralAntilles: well ... the GUI app is running apt-get under the hood, isn't it? Feb 03 16:16:06 dazo, more or less, but not entirely. Feb 03 16:16:21 It caches to the eMMC and uses different resolution algorithms. Feb 03 16:16:59 aha ... hmmm those should be unified then, IMHO ... so you don't have to do GUI for all updates Feb 03 16:17:03 or installations Feb 03 16:17:04 thought it caches to ram/swap Feb 03 16:17:10 I'm trying to get streamripper to install. The debian etch deb is for arm, not armel. But later versions require an updated version of libmad0 Feb 03 16:17:22 (and possible other packages) Feb 03 16:17:26 dazo, doing more stuff to apt introduces more development and QA time. Feb 03 16:18:03 GeneralAntilles: versus support time to help people using apt-get from command line by "error" Feb 03 16:18:07 Besides, an apt-get dist-upgrade can kill your install fairly easily if you have the wrong repos enabled. Feb 03 16:18:17 dazo, different thing. Feb 03 16:18:24 lardman: can't get that double buffering to make a difference :/ Feb 03 16:19:16 Ohh, one other thing: when root fs is full, df only shows /home/user/MyDocs and /mnt/mmc1 ;-) Feb 03 16:19:27 not the full / Feb 03 16:19:43 HUH? Feb 03 16:19:45 oh wait, there is a version of streamripper for OS2008. That should work in fremantle right? Feb 03 16:22:00 Thanks for the help. I'm off. CU @ FOSDEM Feb 03 16:23:12 if I wanted to bind mount /home/user to a different partition and have the mameo5 desktop release its old file locks so it will reflect changes in the new mount point, how would I do that without a complete reboot? Feb 03 16:28:31 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8495806.stm great Feb 03 16:28:38 what about us....? Feb 03 16:28:44 damn, I hate apple, it breaks my mind Feb 03 16:29:20 I understand that mbp is too expensive for what it gives. But it looks so nice... Feb 03 16:30:49 mbp? Feb 03 16:31:11 macbook pro Feb 03 16:31:23 k Feb 03 16:32:06 * mtnbkr would LOVE a routed-out block of black anodized aluminum for his N900 Feb 03 16:32:32 like an mbp - only smaller and better :) Feb 03 16:33:15 mtnbkr: just call your blacksmith and order a custom chasing ;) Feb 03 16:33:15 mtnbkr: I guess it's impossible cause it will cover all these antennas Feb 03 16:33:41 wifi,fm,fmt,gsm,gps,bt Feb 03 16:34:03 moo: heh yeah... Can't imagine the cost of an one-off custom replacement shell lol Feb 03 16:34:31 wazd: yeah,that would be a problem. :( Feb 03 16:35:21 * lardman heads home Feb 03 16:35:34 A kevlar shell would work Feb 03 16:35:53 ceramic Feb 03 16:35:58 like rado wathces Feb 03 16:35:59 SpeedEvil: ooh... I like. Or graphite, or carbon fiber, or other composite even... Feb 03 16:36:12 carbon fibre is not radio transparent Feb 03 16:36:12 watches* Feb 03 16:36:14 kevlar is Feb 03 16:36:21 mostly Feb 03 16:36:28 or plastic... oh wait... :) Feb 03 16:36:48 shapeways.com has some interesting options Feb 03 16:37:05 http://www.shapeways.com/materials/fullcolor - would be awesome. Feb 03 16:37:13 If it wasn't for the small detail of inflexibility Feb 03 16:39:28 someone posted inhere (I htink) a link to a site that has some interesting protective covers, and even some aluminum shells for the N900 (and other hones) but the N900 [IMHO] is a little bulky already and I think the only option would be a stronger replacement shell, not something to make it even bigger :) Feb 03 16:40:30 SpeedEvil: neither is graphite Feb 03 16:41:38 aluminibum shell Feb 03 16:41:44 * DocScrutinizer rolls eyes Feb 03 16:42:30 does it have external antennea mounted all over? Feb 03 16:43:20 DocScrutinizer: lol No, it prolly comes with one of those "antenna enhancer sticky things you put on your battery" that you see on TV Feb 03 16:43:39 gotta stick it on the outside :) Feb 03 16:44:23 People will buy ANYthing it seems. Feb 03 16:46:34 * DocScrutinizer wonders which weird TV channels mtnbkr is watching Feb 03 16:47:22 antenna enhancer - pffft Feb 03 16:47:25 Billy Mays Channel Feb 03 16:47:58 * mtnbkr can't believe no one else has seen these stupid ads Feb 03 16:49:00 never heard of - prolly one of the homeshopping RF polluters that also sell magnets to place to you cars fuel pipe to reduce fuel consumption Feb 03 16:50:10 * frals opens planet-maemo and discovers a metric mile of pictures of the n900 >_< Feb 03 16:50:21 megneto-ionized fuel charged up with esoteric waves Feb 03 16:51:20 reMOO Feb 03 16:52:01 -o reMOOunt Feb 03 16:52:11 DocScrutinizer: oh? I put that magnet next to bed and it gives me "increased mental awareness and less likelyhood to get sick", it works, I swear to god!111 Feb 03 16:52:17 i preferred old conversations inbox widget behavior (scroll contents within the widget, not launch converstions application) Feb 03 16:54:05 tybollt: lol Feb 03 16:54:16 frals: planet-maemo? Feb 03 16:55:09 tybollt: For optimal mental awareness you should swallow the magnet Feb 03 16:55:37 tybollt: Installing it into holes drilled in one's skull is also highly recommended Feb 03 16:56:00 Moo, Arkenoi, how are things? Feb 03 16:56:19 so-so Feb 03 16:56:35 RST38h: :D Feb 03 16:57:14 mtnbkr: http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ Feb 03 16:57:27 frals: thnaks Feb 03 16:57:56 arg... I need some "increased mental awareness" to help with my typos today Feb 03 16:59:49 * DocScrutinizer drills some holes into mtnbkr's skull Feb 03 17:00:54 helps 100%. By lowering the pressure thus increasing blood supply to the brain Feb 03 17:01:14 want a few magnets? Feb 03 17:01:56 s/ to the brain/out of the brain/ there fixed that for ya :) Feb 03 17:02:47 depends on your craftsman's skills Feb 03 17:18:57 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8581#c5 ↠rtcomm uses telepathy on top of libpurple? Feb 03 17:19:00 Bug 8581: Conversations IM: reduce data packets to save battery Feb 03 17:19:25 what's the point? (since telepathy is protocol-independant) Feb 03 17:22:01 ok, NOT red wire Feb 03 17:22:13 nice Feb 03 17:22:15 newegg is going to replace my phone Feb 03 17:22:27 is there a to do a full back up? Feb 03 17:22:49 there is always a way, but do you really want it? Feb 03 17:23:08 what doy ou mean? Feb 03 17:23:15 satmd: lol Feb 03 17:29:18 Wow... There is actually a Russian Maemo Wiki Feb 03 17:29:25 Who would know? Feb 03 17:32:59 hi all Feb 03 17:37:07 hi kevloral Feb 03 17:39:34 lardman|gone: http://tipok.org.ua/node/13 Feb 03 17:42:43 canola sees all my mp3 files but media player only lists files in internal drive on the n900 Feb 03 17:49:20 * Stskeeps facepalms at the n900 prices of things vs iphone prices of things ("but it's the same game and costs less on iphone") Feb 03 17:54:59 Stskeeps: example? Feb 03 17:56:27 DocScrutinizer: someone was complaining about price of some app being cheaper on iphone Feb 03 17:56:30 :P Feb 03 17:57:27 I give a shit on 0.79 bucks 'I'm rich' apps Feb 03 17:58:41 Geez, I hate when people compare Iphone to the N900 Feb 03 17:59:10 why? alwaxys woth a laugh Feb 03 17:59:18 omg Feb 03 17:59:26 why? always worth a laugh Feb 03 18:09:20 uhh.. Feb 03 18:09:48 iPad! Feb 03 18:09:52 * RST38h hides Feb 03 18:09:52 Shiny Feb 03 18:11:42 ipad = chalkboard with less functionality Feb 03 18:13:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFNQE_TzQNI (most of you might know this one already) Feb 03 18:14:48 I have an n900, but i havet messed with the contacts yet from my simcard, I have all my contacts setup over at google. Is there any nice way to strip that contact list? Feb 03 18:20:01 libben: remove all contacts from your n900 and force a resync over MailForExchange Feb 03 18:20:18 it will "import" your google contact Feb 03 18:20:27 well, im not familiar at all with exchange Feb 03 18:20:53 all i use is thunderbird and gmail. But ill guess ill have to take a look at what exchange is and the purpose for using it Feb 03 18:21:01 you need to setup Exchange support in n900 for using gmail Feb 03 18:21:10 it is not working at 100% Feb 03 18:21:21 but it will work for initial push Feb 03 18:21:34 really should be an app for logging in to google just like android, and get calendar and contact working with no hassle Feb 03 18:24:25 libben: currently there are lots of "would be nice" things in Maemo5/n900 :) Feb 03 18:25:51 But even with some of the issues, I am still really happy with mine. So many plusses..[IMHO] Feb 03 18:27:23 yeah, i love my nokia and maemo, i had an htc hero for like 2 months, then i saw this was out, and sold my hero and bought this. android is not the same feeling. Really like having debian. So much nicer with a real linux phone then googles stuff. Feb 03 18:27:28 libben: said app is probably made by google, so if you feel like it, petition them. still, there are projects in the works to sync data between maemo and google, and such existed also on the "older" devices... Feb 03 18:28:02 libben, it's called "Browser". :P Feb 03 18:28:24 heh Feb 03 18:28:36 =) Feb 03 18:28:40 GeneralAntilles, :) being picky but on my app menu it shows as "Web" Feb 03 18:29:02 zaheerm, time to install timeless's en_US strings. Feb 03 18:29:07 You're using en_FI. :P Feb 03 18:30:55 GeneralAntilles, :) Feb 03 18:32:34 It does make filing bugs rather difficult, though. Feb 03 18:37:51 hi Feb 03 18:46:44 zaheerm: ping Feb 03 18:49:12 anyone know if flash-based h264 is hw accelerated? Feb 03 18:49:22 konfoo, not yet. Feb 03 18:49:27 Maybe with 10.1. Feb 03 18:49:39 ah yes, definitely with 10.1 Feb 03 18:50:00 * ieatlint agrees Feb 03 18:50:04 html5 is just a fad Feb 03 18:50:23 doubtful Feb 03 18:50:47 but flash devs are a different species from html devs for the most part Feb 03 18:51:34 has anyone done testing on acceptable bitrates and frame sizes for the n900? Feb 03 18:54:37 konfoo: pretty much any bitrate would work, and framesizes depend on the codec, but mostly < WVGA Feb 03 18:55:26 well specifically for flash.. im testing clips off our cdn and it's all over the place (but then again i can't tell off the bat what these customers are encoding their clips at) Feb 03 18:55:50 felipec, pong Feb 03 18:55:52 flash blows. Badly. Feb 03 18:56:06 For example - youtube 'HD' - gets maybe 3-4fps on the device. Feb 03 18:56:11 Using mplayer gets around 60 Feb 03 18:56:16 on the downloaded flv Feb 03 18:56:26 right but mplayer doesn't decode realtime streams Feb 03 18:56:28 zaheerm: hey, I was just wondering if you would like to test some quick fix for your problem in msn-pecan Feb 03 18:56:33 i run a cdn not a download service Feb 03 18:56:37 felipec, i'd love to :) Feb 03 18:56:47 realtime being rtmp Feb 03 18:56:55 * SpeedEvil is unsure if you can point mplayer to a flv url Feb 03 18:57:08 rtmp doesn't mean realtime Feb 03 18:57:14 you can but not for maemo, and it pretty much just dumps the data Feb 03 18:57:20 see get_iplayer Feb 03 18:57:24 for some source for example Feb 03 18:57:30 given the right patches Feb 03 18:57:30 we have bitrate limited http for our flvs not rtmp Feb 03 18:57:34 or rtmpdump Feb 03 18:57:43 For my mail app, I aggregate all my incoming e-mail to one account, but use different return addresses for different categories of correspondence. I've been able to get that set up by setting up dummy e-mail accounts, with the mail server set to localhost.localdomain, which works, but (naturally) the mail app periodically pops up warnings about failing to connect. Feb 03 18:57:47 yeah see rtmpdump is useless to me Feb 03 18:57:48 oh - you're on teh otehr side Feb 03 18:58:17 Does anyone know if there is a way to tell the mail app "There is no incoming mail server for this account, only the outgoing one!" Feb 03 18:58:22 zaheerm: all right... writing it :) Feb 03 18:58:25 who's using an exchange account with their N900 Feb 03 18:58:39 exchange don't run on linux Feb 03 18:58:39 I've noticed that contacts and calendar syncing don't appear to sync both ways Feb 03 18:59:08 Or, at least, where the mail app keeps its configuration files. Feb 03 18:59:25 quick question, anyone else having a sim card not recognized problem? Feb 03 18:59:39 zaheerm: http bitrate limited using what? nginx with streaming module? Feb 03 18:59:44 felipec, i think it is due to a message waiting for me...i noticed on t.m.o someone else had that problem, i never went on msn on my desktop to flush that and try pecan after Feb 03 18:59:51 MohammadAG; not any more, had that until week 1 this year Feb 03 19:00:08 konfoo, i work for flumotion, we have our own rate limiting stuff for our ondemand streams Feb 03 19:00:14 or it may have been week 2 Feb 03 19:00:49 zaheerm: whats your market penetration right now Feb 03 19:00:49 MohammadAG; has it worked before or you switched subscription? Feb 03 19:00:49 konfoo, the base code is there in the open source flumotion Feb 03 19:01:33 konfoo, > 50% of spain's multimedia traffic Feb 03 19:01:35 it just disconnected from the network and showed me the no sim icon Feb 03 19:01:50 konfoo, which cdn are you with? Feb 03 19:01:52 thinking it's a sim card problem Feb 03 19:01:54 zaheerm: I don't see how that could be related... but yeah, somebody mentioned that Feb 03 19:02:07 MohammadAG; too cold? mine looses the memory card in cold weather Feb 03 19:02:08 zaheerm: streaming media hosting Feb 03 19:02:19 it's working again o.o Feb 03 19:02:25 felipec, because it crashes straight after receiving a message Feb 03 19:02:35 indoors and it's about 9C outside Feb 03 19:02:42 we have clusters of nginx, fms, wms, dss, icecast, etc but im always looking for something new Feb 03 19:02:44 could be 28 inside Feb 03 19:03:01 MohammadAG; should work, then I don't have any idea why Feb 03 19:03:04 the vibrator worked again, then broke Feb 03 19:03:22 need of repair ? Feb 03 19:03:34 it's been like that since I bought it Feb 03 19:03:59 konfoo, we just use flumotion which handles flash, windows media, mp3 and other formats over http Feb 03 19:04:02 hmm, sound like you got a bad one Feb 03 19:04:47 ~asl Feb 03 19:04:48 Old enough, yes please, my place. Feb 03 19:04:50 well it worked on the first day Feb 03 19:04:52 zaheerm: an offline message? Feb 03 19:05:02 and it worked for a day this week Feb 03 19:05:07 felipec, no clue but his symptoms sound the same Feb 03 19:05:18 so it could be debris, as DocScrutinizer (?) pointed out Feb 03 19:05:42 felipec, of course i don't know anything about the code or the protocol, so imay be clutching at straws Feb 03 19:05:48 * Trizt shrugs Feb 03 19:06:12 zaheerm: http://people.freedesktop.org/~felipec/pecan/telepathy-msn-pecan_0.1.0~rc3-0maemo2_armel.deb Feb 03 19:07:24 felipec, ok installing now Feb 03 19:08:40 zaheerm: actually, I'm looking at your log again... I don't think that's the problem =/ Feb 03 19:09:23 felipec, should i try it anyway? Feb 03 19:09:53 zaheerm: I don't think so, but up to you Feb 03 19:13:35 zaheerm: got any urls for 3rd party producer/encoder components (if any)? Feb 03 19:14:49 felipec, it works! Feb 03 19:15:03 felipec, ie no segfault and i am online Feb 03 19:15:34 konfoo, http://www.flumotion.com is our commercial website http://www.flumotion.net is our open source website Feb 03 19:15:49 felipec, i spoke too soon, it crashed after 10 seconds Feb 03 19:16:44 anything new in the maemo world since i was here a 12 hours ago or so? :P Feb 03 19:16:48 konfoo, flumotion is end to end, capture, encode, stream Feb 03 19:17:08 Xisdibik, yes maemo 6 got canned, symbian moving to gtk+ :) Feb 03 19:17:38 zaheerm: ah - no support for capture from 3rd party devices i.e. mpeg4 streaming encoders like envivio or ip-webcams outputting rtsp? Feb 03 19:17:55 zaheerm: lol whut? Feb 03 19:18:15 konfoo, we do support capture from ip webcams outputting rtsp and from windows media encoder and flash media encoder Feb 03 19:18:52 zaheerm: ha ok now i need to test your platform for real :) Feb 03 19:19:33 zaheerm: I uploaded a new one... disabling offline messages Feb 03 19:19:44 felipec, same url? Feb 03 19:20:19 zaheerm: but maemo3: http://people.freedesktop.org/~felipec/pecan/telepathy-msn-pecan_0.1.0~rc3-0maemo3_armel.deb Feb 03 19:20:39 felipec, perfect trying it now Feb 03 19:22:24 felipec, giving it a few mins before i tell you it worked :) Feb 03 19:22:57 hello Feb 03 19:23:41 re Feb 03 19:23:55 when i connect with vnc to a machine, and press a key, it is always sent twice, for example tthhiiss hhaappeennss, is it common? Feb 03 19:24:00 zaheerm: do you guys do adaptive bitrate switching Feb 03 19:24:40 * Arif_ yawns Feb 03 19:24:51 and, what is interesting, when i press fn and any special key, it is once sent with the fn and second time without - is mapped on fn+f, so "-f" is sent Feb 03 19:26:31 LuciusMare, i dunno about second problem, but vnc from my n900 to home mahcine never gives dduuppeess Feb 03 19:28:49 Is it just me, or is the search box on maemo.org broken? Feb 03 19:29:06 I've typed in words found on the front page, and got no results. Feb 03 19:30:35 Hi all, whats the best IRC client for my N900? Feb 03 19:30:42 irssi Feb 03 19:30:47 agreed Feb 03 19:31:04 X-Chat works fine for me, though I also use it on desktop. Feb 03 19:31:33 Thanks, I'm using X-Chat on my desktop here too Feb 03 19:31:35 konfoo, yes Feb 03 19:31:54 Is irssi textmode? Feb 03 19:31:55 felipec, fixed! been running like 10 mins no segfault Feb 03 19:32:23 zaheerm: cool :) Feb 03 19:32:31 zaheerm: and h264 for flash? (sorry for all the questions :P) Feb 03 19:32:38 konfoo, yes :) Feb 03 19:33:00 konfoo, h264, h263, vp6 aac, mp3 Feb 03 19:33:27 konfoo, we even have flumotion working on n900 streaming from the camera Feb 03 19:33:38 zaheerm: can i pull in a stream via wme and output to flash for example (i looked through the oss docs but they only deal with free codecs) Feb 03 19:33:55 konfoo, yes, though that feature is in beta Feb 03 19:34:04 zaheerm: and live iphone streaming? Feb 03 19:34:12 Will we ever get video calling support for Skype, do you think? Feb 03 19:34:15 konfoo, yes, though another beta feature :) Feb 03 19:34:15 Pavel: yup, irssi is text-based client Feb 03 19:34:37 zaheerm: so if i licensed the cdn edition that would be a paid upgrade, or bundled? Feb 03 19:34:57 konfoo, you would have to talk to product and sales..... Feb 03 19:35:11 ok Feb 03 19:35:21 konfoo, but i can get the right person to talk to you if you want, i am just a dev :) Feb 03 19:35:35 you know offhand how many people in the us are using it for cdn distribution? Feb 03 19:35:52 konfoo, we have not much presence in the US Feb 03 19:35:57 ya that would help. i'd like to put it on a test server on the cdn and test it out Feb 03 19:36:34 btw telefonica is one of our biggest customers (south america) Feb 03 19:36:51 konfoo, telefonica is one of our resellers (spain) Feb 03 19:36:57 ha Feb 03 19:37:37 konfoo, i have to go now but email me at zaheer at flumotion dot com and i will put you in touch Feb 03 19:37:46 ok will do Feb 03 19:42:18 * Pavel would suggest X-Chat instead, then. Feb 03 19:42:24 zaheerm, hey dude, i was just talking today some more about the BCN meetup, where did you publish the paperwork produced by the community? Feb 03 19:43:26 * lcuk emails Feb 03 19:45:49 uh, my stuff was hopefully published to the bin .. Feb 03 19:45:53 =D Feb 03 19:49:00 mikhas, nahhh its all important, good bad or indifferent, it was community content afterall Feb 03 19:50:41 you could work for google's PR dept Feb 03 19:50:54 you make wrong things sound good Feb 03 19:51:29 mikhas: Who, me? Feb 03 19:51:48 oh dear Feb 03 19:59:03 * frals sets the alarm for 0400 Feb 03 19:59:22 after being used to not getting up before 10 for the last month this is gonna be interesting.. :P Feb 03 19:59:37 :) Feb 03 20:00:47 getting up early is a sin Feb 03 20:01:25 frals: good luck on your trip Feb 03 20:02:07 Stskeeps: :) bit nervous about getting lost in HEL :D Feb 03 20:02:46 better lost in HEL than HELL Feb 03 20:03:02 frals: just remember not to assume you can take metro from central station. Feb 03 20:03:54 shrug - just bring a bottle of Kosken and all people wil be very friendly... Feb 03 20:04:14 Stskeeps: roger, ive checked the maps and my hotel is like 2km from NRC so I figure I can take a walk.. seems its like 2km from the nearest metro to the hotel anyway :P Feb 03 20:06:40 frals: and when you fly back, give yourself atleast 2 hours to get to airport. almost missed my plane last time cos of traffic jam. Feb 03 20:06:59 Stskeeps: cheers, will do :) Feb 03 20:07:16 btw, how is it with free wifi access around the airport/generally in helsinki? Feb 03 20:07:43 McD has free wifi :-) and helsinki city has its own free wifi in the very center Feb 03 20:07:55 helsinki is okay, if you are bored outside nrc there's wifi too Feb 03 20:08:01 can I use standard bluetooth hid joypads on the N900? all I can find on google is info about zeemote and wiimote Feb 03 20:09:23 pajp, Stskeeps: thanks :) Feb 03 20:10:01 * Stskeeps ponder 'maemo.org guide to helsinki' Feb 03 20:11:04 Stskeeps: good idea Feb 03 20:11:11 Stskeeps: do it! :) Feb 03 20:11:19 zaheerm: I've got a fix that might work for you Feb 03 20:11:29 do you want to try? Feb 03 20:11:45 there might be some need for Guide to Tampere as well, if peeps are coming in for Akademy Feb 03 20:12:04 re Feb 03 20:12:07 mikhas, i work for collabora, bringing people together is a good thing Feb 03 20:12:22 or 'guide to helsinki visitors using maemo devices' ;p Feb 03 20:12:31 Came up with another little idea for a toy app for the N900. Feb 03 20:13:04 oh bother. This ready made caipiroska is rubbish Feb 03 20:13:10 lcuk: how's travel tomorrow looking? Feb 03 20:14:00 based on the phone call i just got 5 minutes ago im even doubting this weekend Feb 03 20:14:03 * Jaffa 's work could be a problem - could've been there all night tonight :( Feb 03 20:15:17 lcuk: :( Feb 03 20:15:58 Thought I'd ask unless someone else has already done it. Feb 03 20:16:11 Basically, it's a stop motion animator film creating thingy Feb 03 20:16:29 You set it up, touch the sccreen everytime you want to take a frame, then at the end it build an mjpeg film. Feb 03 20:16:46 alterego, its been requested in liqbase, onion skinning my sketches would be relatively easy Feb 03 20:17:07 With the camera? Feb 03 20:17:14 I forgot to mention, it's with the camera. Feb 03 20:17:45 Well, will you be pissed if I do a standa alone app? :P Feb 03 20:17:50 theres probably a basic gtk app that does it that would likely work without change then Feb 03 20:18:03 Yeah, I was gonna look into it a little. Feb 03 20:18:37 certainly not, i welcome full and complete replacement for things i mess around with in liqbase Feb 03 20:18:37 hi all Feb 03 20:19:04 Is there someone here involved in applications for an account to upload to #extras(-devel)? Feb 03 20:19:13 I've sent mine last Friday, but no word yet Feb 03 20:21:58 Quibus, maybe there was a bit of backlog, or it slipped between the cracks, if its not turned up in the morning send a reminder perhaps? Feb 03 20:22:28 lcuk: OK, will do, thanks Feb 03 20:24:28 Quibus: X-Fade is on holiday this week, I don't know who is back-filling Feb 03 20:25:02 Jaffa: aha, thanks. I'll be patient until next week at least, then :-) Feb 03 20:26:05 Quibus: worth asking who is, you shouldn't have to wait IMHO Feb 03 20:26:26 Yeah Feb 03 20:26:52 I had to wait ages, but my request got lost, so it was only until I was complaining about it here, and he happened to be here at the same time that it got sorted :P Feb 03 20:28:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmv8quf_xM wow... Feb 03 20:29:03 I'd hope duties have been handed over and BAU isn't a key man dependency Feb 03 20:29:53 what tool(s) can one use to quickly take a screenshot of the phone ui? Feb 03 20:30:04 ctrl-shift-p Feb 03 20:30:11 CTRL+SHIFT+P Feb 03 20:30:47 dneary might know, or VDVsx mebbe Feb 03 20:31:22 Jaffa, or alterego or GeneralAntilles Feb 03 20:31:30 Is there a way of pressing crtl+shift easily single handedly? Feb 03 20:32:03 dneary, hmm? Feb 03 20:32:14 pyhimys, use your thumb? . . . Feb 03 20:32:34 pyhimys, You don't need to press them at the same time Feb 03 20:32:38 GeneralAntilles: are the keys sticky Feb 03 20:32:41 StickyKeys in da house Feb 03 20:32:42 oh they are Feb 03 20:32:49 thanks :D Feb 03 20:32:52 heya :) Feb 03 20:32:52 hi maemo people Feb 03 20:32:58 pyhimys, you can pretty easily cover both with a single finger, too. Feb 03 20:32:58 Jaffa: who to ask? Feb 03 20:33:05 hi @ll Feb 03 20:33:31 anybody aircrack running ? Feb 03 20:33:37 dnaumov: there's a load/memory app that goes in dropdown menu that ALSO includes camera Feb 03 20:34:07 I have tried to figure out how to download maemo5 free and non-free code, not sdk Feb 03 20:34:22 is there git where the download can be done easily Feb 03 20:34:58 hey that's funny, gpodder downloading from youtube throws 403 forbidden when I use my highly normal squid proxy Feb 03 20:35:04 but works fine direct Feb 03 20:35:15 dnaumov: it gives you 20 secs to hit the camera button to take snapshot or it auto-snaps in 20 secs otherwise Feb 03 20:35:44 * ShadowJK wonders if youtube is throwing 403 at the added headers or if they've just banned the host.. Feb 03 20:36:01 alterego or GeneralAntilles? Feb 03 20:38:25 vibrator's working again Feb 03 20:38:30 what is the default root password for the maemo sdk virtual image Feb 03 20:39:03 use fakeroot Feb 03 20:39:13 http://glossynews.com/society/201001070305/activists-missing-after-declaring-war-on-leather-at-motorcycle-rally/ Feb 03 20:39:27 slops17, try maemo Feb 03 20:39:27 trying to install vmware tools and it asked for the pw Feb 03 20:39:30 * RST38h cackles of satisfaction Feb 03 20:39:31 thanks Feb 03 20:40:12 if its not, then i dunno Feb 03 20:40:21 are there people from maemofrance here ? Feb 03 20:40:57 ill try and let u know Feb 03 20:41:27 or anyone from france here ? Feb 03 20:41:36 willing to beta test some apps ? :) Feb 03 20:44:50 dneary: I meant about who's covering X-Fade Feb 03 20:47:03 Jaffa, Ah. Feb 03 20:47:07 Daniel Wilms Feb 03 20:47:23 Ferenc, Tero and Niels are all away this week Feb 03 20:47:29 Niels is back Monday Feb 03 20:47:33 Is Daniel on IRC? Feb 03 20:47:39 Quibus, No Feb 03 20:47:43 Well, not now Feb 03 20:47:48 dneary: what's his nick? Feb 03 20:47:53 Quibus, late in the day EU time. ;) Feb 03 20:47:54 Quibus, danielwilms Feb 03 20:47:55 uh! Feb 03 20:47:58 thanks Feb 03 20:48:10 GeneralAntilles: he sounds Dutch, and I'm Dutch as well Feb 03 20:48:15 (i.e. his name) Feb 03 20:48:23 German, AFAIK Feb 03 20:48:26 You're more likely to get him by email Feb 03 20:48:34 And yes, he's a German Feb 03 20:48:34 I thought my N900 was running slow... I opened top, and there's a zillion sshd processes... someone is trying to bruteforce user and password :) Feb 03 20:48:41 daniel(dot)wilms(at)nokia(dot)com Feb 03 20:48:51 the downside of 3g, I'm not behind NAT :) Feb 03 20:48:54 OK, I'll try to contact him, thanks guys Feb 03 20:48:59 Night(dot)night(at)home(dot)nety Feb 03 20:49:14 lol dneary :D gnite Feb 03 20:49:19 Quibus, maemo-community for any non-private matter of course Feb 03 20:49:35 or maemo-dev since it was a developer request Feb 03 20:50:32 btw - can extras-devel get something to check and reject all packages with "Maintainer: My Name " like fields? Feb 03 20:52:00 hrw|gone, lintian type sanity checks? Feb 03 20:52:24 lcuk: lintian would be great - even pre-etch one (maemo5 compatible) Feb 03 20:52:49 re Feb 03 20:52:53 yeah agreed in principle, not sure if its there/used/configurable Feb 03 20:53:19 lcuk: no, it is not used in maemo Feb 03 20:53:51 dumb n00b question - how do I get mp3s from my linux box onto my n900? Feb 03 20:54:14 autarch: connect it by usb and select 'storage mode' on n900 Feb 03 20:54:17 and more specifically, is there a way to get the n900 to show up as a device in rhythmbox? Feb 03 20:54:20 autarch: then just copy Feb 03 20:54:22 hrw: did that Feb 03 20:54:27 hrw, maemian. Feb 03 20:54:28 hrw: copy to where on the n900? Feb 03 20:54:29 autarch: never used rhytmbox Feb 03 20:54:29 autarch: install sshd and just scp! Feb 03 20:54:34 GeneralAntilles: que? Feb 03 20:54:34 autarch: scp / rsync over ssh Feb 03 20:54:37 koala_man: that seems ideal Feb 03 20:54:41 it's awesome Feb 03 20:54:45 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemian/ Feb 03 20:54:53 dneta Feb 03 20:54:53 Dunno when it'll be deplayed. Feb 03 20:54:53 do rsync script to keep it up2date Feb 03 20:54:54 well, rhtyhmbox would be ideal, but scp is ok Feb 03 20:54:54 .P Feb 03 20:55:49 stskeeps / jebba, from what you know of the build system so far, would it be practical/feasible to add lintian checking to the autobuilder process, not just for the one request hrw just found, but for other checking? Feb 03 20:56:08 lcuk, jeremiah is working on that. Feb 03 20:56:09 I have too many mp3s to just sync everything Feb 03 20:56:17 :D great! Feb 03 20:58:21 * lcuk has been watching lintian output recent Feb 03 20:59:35 what is the best way to download all the code from repository/pool/maemo5/? Feb 03 20:59:48 why would you want to? Feb 03 20:59:49 :P Feb 03 20:59:58 oldchap, neural transfer interface Feb 03 21:00:15 just want to check the code Feb 03 21:00:35 for backdoors? Feb 03 21:00:35 :P Feb 03 21:00:42 GeneralAntilles: it is lintian modified or 'let reinvent wheel^Wlintian' thing? Feb 03 21:00:42 no Feb 03 21:00:51 i couldn't do that Feb 03 21:01:01 hrw, it's lintian modified to be compliant with Maemo requirements. Feb 03 21:01:02 oldchap: wget Feb 03 21:01:16 hrw, jeremiah's a DD, soo. . . . Feb 03 21:01:18 robots.txt denies that Feb 03 21:01:25 i tried that Feb 03 21:01:31 GeneralAntilles: at least it is based on recent lintian or etch? Feb 03 21:01:40 but recursive wget does not succeed Feb 03 21:01:41 oldchap: wget can ignore robots.txt Feb 03 21:02:05 oldchap: jebba described his way of mirroring on wiki Feb 03 21:02:16 oldchap: wiki.maemo.org user:jebba Feb 03 21:02:23 hrw, think it's based on the svn release or something. Feb 03 21:02:39 sorry by ignorance but how robots.txt can be skipped Feb 03 21:02:44 oldchap: man wget Feb 03 21:02:58 GeneralAntilles: I hope that sooner then later it will start to work Feb 03 21:03:08 :) i knew that Feb 03 21:03:39 thanks i will take a look and try again Feb 03 21:04:11 # Setting this to off makes Wget not download /robots.txt. Be sure to Feb 03 21:04:11 # know *exactly* what /robots.txt is and how it is used before changing Feb 03 21:04:11 robots = off Feb 03 21:04:27 thats my .wgetrc Feb 03 21:04:41 * frals reads http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/android-kernel-problems.html Feb 03 21:06:50 * Scelt notices that people use a lot /me in freenode Feb 03 21:06:59 * lcuk didnt Feb 03 21:07:04 it's irc, /me is socially acceptable Feb 03 21:07:18 * Scelt didn't mean it to be a bad thing Feb 03 21:07:20 Scelt: how long have you IRC'd on IRCnet? Feb 03 21:07:29 * lcuk uses irc /me like twitter ;) Feb 03 21:07:51 lcuk: ya, seems lintian could be tied into the process somewhere Feb 03 21:07:56 * dracflamloc hurr hurrrr. twitter makes me post like a moron! Feb 03 21:07:59 Myrtti: hmph, I think since 2002 Feb 03 21:08:12 Scelt: that would be the reason then for you feeling that way Feb 03 21:08:13 jebba: it is not 'could' but rather 'should' Feb 03 21:08:14 jebba, thanks, GeneralAntilles just confirmed jeremiah is investigating it Feb 03 21:08:21 jebba: about 2 years ago ;D Feb 03 21:08:25 A channel I used to hang out in had a bot that kept track of the most active users, and the users who did the most /me actions. Feb 03 21:08:26 Myrtti: most likely Feb 03 21:08:33 /me thinks it's more fun to say /me Feb 03 21:08:38 * scr4ve uses /me in normal jabber chat, also - pidgin wins :-) [ot] Feb 03 21:08:39 Pavel, yeah Feb 03 21:08:42 ive run stats here Feb 03 21:08:52 anybody with Marina installed here? Feb 03 21:09:00 when I was more active there, I had /me aliased to /say /me Feb 03 21:09:00 wazd: /me Feb 03 21:09:06 * scr4ve submits a feature request @ bugs.maemo.org: /me should be interpreted correctly. Feb 03 21:09:08 hrw: oh, cool Feb 03 21:09:14 screwy formatting http://liqbase.net/maemo_incomplete_ircstats.htm Feb 03 21:09:23 wazd: lack of appmenu icon suxx Feb 03 21:09:24 hrw: can you tell me what font color mail notifications have? Feb 03 21:09:36 hrw: app menu? Feb 03 21:09:39 wazd: brown on yellow? Feb 03 21:09:47 lcuk, "by MAINTAINER" =) Feb 03 21:10:01 Myrtti: :] at least people don't automatic now playing scripts. damn, I don't miss the mid-2000's quakenet Feb 03 21:10:04 is this a known issue for N900 it doesn't switch back to 2G when UMTS/3G becomes unavailable? Feb 03 21:10:17 for data Feb 03 21:10:17 inz, you put up proper ones then Feb 03 21:10:18 Scelt: indeed Feb 03 21:10:21 wazd: menubar in nokia themes has kind of "\/" arrow if there is a menu. marina theme lacks it Feb 03 21:10:22 hrw: cause some users get white on yellow somehow Feb 03 21:10:25 they were quick and to see Feb 03 21:10:29 wazd: I saw that Feb 03 21:10:33 what are you guys using for viewing open office files? Feb 03 21:10:46 Dassu: openoffice Feb 03 21:10:51 oke Feb 03 21:10:57 hrw: oh. I actually don't know how I removed it :D Feb 03 21:11:02 lcuk, I'm not even on the "didn't make it to the top" list, no way I'm putting any stats. Feb 03 21:11:04 hrw, the UI spec doesn't recommend that anyway. Feb 03 21:11:10 hrw: it was unintentional Feb 03 21:11:12 in what repo is that hrw ? Feb 03 21:11:19 hrw, Nokia can't agree whether or not to use it in their apps, however. Feb 03 21:11:19 * lcuk has http://maemo-hackers.org/wiki/MaemoUrls on his toolbar Feb 03 21:11:29 :D lol inz Feb 03 21:11:29 Dassu: ah, you mean on nokia tablets? Feb 03 21:11:32 Does it still work =) Feb 03 21:11:38 yeah live updates Feb 03 21:11:38 n900 Feb 03 21:11:42 nice tool Feb 03 21:11:44 Seems to =) Feb 03 21:11:44 very handy Feb 03 21:11:45 * wazd solved Esc key mystery Feb 03 21:11:54 it's not Windows, it's Photoshop Feb 03 21:12:29 openoffice is portable not sure if it has already been ported Feb 03 21:12:37 inz, theres times i'd like one for every channel Feb 03 21:13:05 its really handy, it would be great to actually make an xchat plugin to do it (if there isnt one already) Feb 03 21:13:47 evening Feb 03 21:13:54 hi Tomek Feb 03 21:14:47 ok, so I can scp music, but to where? Feb 03 21:15:06 mauve.plus.com plz. Feb 03 21:15:23 Dassu: sure, it is sort of portable. but also require some libs which first needs to be built for maemo which require some other libs etc. Feb 03 21:15:26 hrw: I think I've found it Feb 03 21:15:28 lcuk, I actually do have =) Feb 03 21:15:32 autarch, root@riaa.com:/home/fred/music Feb 03 21:15:33 Dassu: anyway then it will need lot of ram to run Feb 03 21:15:38 lcuk: to do what? Feb 03 21:15:40 sneaky bastard Feb 03 21:15:45 lcuk, erm, such logs for every channel I'm on Feb 03 21:15:52 lcuk, no xchat plugin (don't use) Feb 03 21:16:02 Icuk: great, what's the pw? Feb 03 21:16:21 trac is a cool system, whats the log scraper written in? Feb 03 21:16:25 the amazing thing been, when I entered into subway, it not only switched back to 2G display in systray and data connectivity stalled - it even didn't show up my GPRS in "internet connections" any more Feb 03 21:17:33 when I switched to "2G only" and then back to "Dual" it happily connected via 2.5G Feb 03 21:18:03 and jumped back to 3.5G when I left the tunnel Feb 03 21:18:27 Add a bug '3g should work underground'. Feb 03 21:18:37 it totally does in Finland Feb 03 21:18:39 lcuk, it's actually a irssi plugin that inserts stuff into MySQL =) Feb 03 21:19:07 in fact, underground is the only place where 3G works in Moscow :D Feb 03 21:19:13 SpeedEvil: 2G should work when available. Without kicling it to start Feb 03 21:19:14 lcuk, so it's not log scraping, but an action on urls Feb 03 21:19:18 inz, crafty but effective Feb 03 21:19:37 yup Feb 03 21:19:50 wfm Feb 03 21:19:55 SpeedEvil: the issue is it doesn,t switch to 2G automatically Feb 03 21:20:09 wazd: in warsaw not even 2g works in metro :P Feb 03 21:20:51 if you didnt get the connection in "internet connection" settings it sounds like it lost your sim (since they seem to filter gprs iap's by simimsi nr) Feb 03 21:21:09 I have a stupid question. Can anybody give me any shot of Marina with titlebar? :D Feb 03 21:21:20 lcuk, it actually also does HEAD on the url, I have the mime types also in the db Feb 03 21:21:21 cause I forgot to save fullsized shots :( Feb 03 21:21:31 wazd: app or desktop? Feb 03 21:21:32 lcuk, (and also a handful of "nosniff"s Feb 03 21:21:39 hrw: app Feb 03 21:21:50 inz, have you seen what i was doing with irc client in maemo, just a sec Feb 03 21:22:01 moment Feb 03 21:22:06 hrw: thx Feb 03 21:22:21 It's problematic because the operator is more often than not incompetent at configuring their network, so phone manufacturers and operators are stuck in an endless loop blaming eachother Feb 03 21:22:34 http://liqbase.net/liq.20091201_141600._maemo.scr.png Feb 03 21:22:49 * lcuk notes hrw is on that screenshot Feb 03 21:23:03 ShadowJK: aaah, ok Feb 03 21:23:10 lcuk, I don't do graphical irc clients =) Feb 03 21:23:36 lcuk, how do the avatars work (i.e. where do you get them from) Feb 03 21:23:39 inz, i know, but that is extracting urls and data from the irc stream just like your irssi plugin Feb 03 21:23:48 lcuk: pretty - but fundamentally opposite to the way IRC works for me. Feb 03 21:23:58 thats a lookup to maemo.org avatar Feb 03 21:24:17 SpeedEvil, i hate getting micro urls in xchat on tablet Feb 03 21:24:17 http://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/scr246.jpg Feb 03 21:24:21 to have to fiddle to view Feb 03 21:24:25 I know that there's a menu here Feb 03 21:24:25 most of the time its photos Feb 03 21:24:28 but no arrow Feb 03 21:24:30 One could argue the design of 3g/gsm is braindead when the device isn't allwed to just scan all frequencies and connect to whatever is strongest Feb 03 21:24:34 lcuk: how? - you just click Feb 03 21:24:39 wazd: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/download/maemo/Screenshot-20100203-222411.png Feb 03 21:24:40 i just want them easily viewable (the nobbles work for urls too Feb 03 21:24:45 yeah speedevil Feb 03 21:24:50 opens fullscreen Feb 03 21:25:18 hrw: thx Feb 03 21:25:19 the exact same principle could work in the conversations client Feb 03 21:25:25 lcuk: fair enough - I suppose clicking and showing in a little window would work Feb 03 21:25:33 wazd: or http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/download/maemo/Screenshot-20100203-222515.png Feb 03 21:25:52 hrw: if you're not bored, a screen with an actual arrow would be awesome :) Feb 03 21:26:15 wazd: which 'actual arrow'? Feb 03 21:26:15 hrw: with another theme Feb 03 21:26:19 ah Feb 03 21:26:39 np Feb 03 21:26:49 hrw: ta Feb 03 21:26:58 wazd, can you darken up the text on notifications? Feb 03 21:27:04 I can't manage to read the blue on yellow. Feb 03 21:27:05 GeneralAntilles: i added lardman on facebook and already his picture is starting to show up in my Suggestions. Feb 03 21:27:11 GeneralAntilles: it scares me. Feb 03 21:27:14 Stskeeps, he's a virus! Feb 03 21:27:21 wazd: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/download/maemo/Screenshot-20100203-222701.png is with digital nature Feb 03 21:27:35 GeneralAntilles: what blue? Feb 03 21:28:13 wazd, the blue text in notifications. Feb 03 21:28:24 GeneralAntilles: screenshots please, you know I'm blind :P Feb 03 21:28:27 lol Stskeeps GeneralAntilles Feb 03 21:29:30 oooh. Feb 03 21:29:35 We really hope that you are enjoying your brand new N900 device. We value your opinion, and would like to invite you to join our exciting N900 study. By taking part in this study, you can influence future product development, and after successful participation, you will be rewarded with a John Lewis voucher for ÂŁ50! Feb 03 21:30:21 SpeedEvil: (grphite for case) make that another crystal structure same element ;-) Feb 03 21:30:26 wazd, http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/marina-notification.png Feb 03 21:30:31 coal! Feb 03 21:30:44 wazd, I find the notification colors lack contrast. Feb 03 21:30:45 derp Feb 03 21:30:48 wait what frozen bubble in my maemo? Feb 03 21:30:58 actually - I have wondered about a brass+wood case Feb 03 21:31:06 GeneralAntilles: you know, you have the third color variant of that notification :D Feb 03 21:31:09 thresh: diddn't work when i tried to install Feb 03 21:31:16 GeneralAntilles: people already have white abd brown Feb 03 21:31:24 wazd, huh? Feb 03 21:31:38 GeneralAntilles: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32761&page=11 Feb 03 21:31:50 from extras-devel or what? Feb 03 21:31:56 oh, that's interesting Feb 03 21:31:59 GeneralAntilles: and the funniest thing is that I don't even know how to change that Feb 03 21:32:04 hoops frenzy is source code for sale Feb 03 21:32:07 Weird Feb 03 21:32:12 well, for 199 $ Feb 03 21:32:45 frals: Just watched that tracert video... wow is right... "that's obviously a shared server..." ug.... Feb 03 21:32:58 SpeedEvil: well if you think diamant is a little exaggerated, then make that hardened glass Feb 03 21:33:26 GeneralAntilles: you bet Feb 03 21:33:43 wazd, I love all the bugs we're turning up in Hildon. Feb 03 21:34:00 some of them maybe gtkrc ones though Feb 03 21:34:16 GeneralAntilles: are you using 1.05? Feb 03 21:34:22 GeneralAntilles: sure, but those bugs will never be fixed Feb 03 21:34:26 wazd, I just updated, but didn't reboot. Feb 03 21:34:37 Catorise exposed, what, 3? Feb 03 21:34:41 anyway time to go for me Feb 03 21:35:02 hrw, we might have a chance if we can get together enough bribe money for konttori. :P Feb 03 21:37:46 anyone else got a 360meter study? Feb 03 21:37:50 Not I Feb 03 21:38:01 btw, I heard there was an option to give summit device to someone if the owner got a retail device, am I correct? Feb 03 21:38:07 including SMSy software and stuff Feb 03 21:38:16 err a what? 360meter? Feb 03 21:39:11 DocScrutinizer: I got a mail to the address I gave the nokia UK shop - requesting my participation in a stufy. Feb 03 21:39:12 how do I rsync to the n900? I can't find an rsync package for it Feb 03 21:39:23 wazd: i think that was the 'black markets' thing discussed Feb 03 21:39:33 aeha Feb 03 21:39:41 apt-get install rsync Feb 03 21:39:42 wazd, well, you can mail it back to Peter and I think Quim will mail them back out to somebody else. Feb 03 21:40:15 rsync is in extras or extras-testing.. grsync shows up in app manager, just rsync can be installed with apt-get Feb 03 21:41:31 ah, nm then Feb 03 21:41:34 oh duh Feb 03 21:41:41 I was sitting there using the browser to install stuff Feb 03 21:41:43 rsync is in testing for some reason Feb 03 21:43:38 I don't think it's user/ or I'd vote it up.. Feb 03 21:45:32 http://jago.pp.fi/images/linuxdesktop.jpg :) Feb 03 21:51:16 :) Feb 03 21:52:43 Oooh. I just read further! It's a 50 quid voucher on completion of the survey - not a 50 quid voucher maybe. Feb 03 21:53:12 This is silly. 499 -15% -15% -15% -49.99 (topcashback) -50 (study) Feb 03 21:53:41 Shiny. Feb 03 21:57:27 why I can't give the execution permission to a script? "chmod +x filename" returns with success but doesn't set the permission Feb 03 21:57:35 even with "sudo gainroot" Feb 03 21:57:46 +x won't work on vfat Feb 03 21:57:47 mydocs has noexec Feb 03 21:58:00 ouch. Feb 03 21:58:14 so neither /opt has? Feb 03 21:58:26 no - only mydocs Feb 03 21:58:42 ok, i'll just move it out from MyDocs - thanks Feb 03 22:01:15 does somebody know why fcrontab looks for vi in "/scratchbox/tools/bin/vi" and if there is a way to change it? Feb 03 22:01:52 export EDITOR=vim seems to do the trick Feb 03 22:03:38 which cron is fcrontab? I'm used to dillon cron (old slackware days) and busybox Feb 03 22:04:05 good question ... i've found fcrontab for the n900 Feb 03 22:04:12 dunno what we have at work, prolly what ubuntu default to Feb 03 22:04:19 i think it's developed by ruskie Feb 03 22:04:29 don't know if its a crontab port or what, sincerely Feb 03 22:04:35 developed by or ported Feb 03 22:04:43 uhm... make that "packaged" Feb 03 22:04:57 yeah. useful nonetheless Feb 03 22:05:11 i'm setting automatic profile switching with crontab Feb 03 22:05:46 good night folks Feb 03 22:06:07 Intersting. Feb 03 22:06:18 yeah, but quite a mess Feb 03 22:06:24 a lot of things have to be done by hand Feb 03 22:06:35 This 360 survey thing app is logging practically everything on the device. Feb 03 22:06:49 ops. wasn't for me i guess. Feb 03 22:06:51 can someone (else) confirm that this catalog works fine for them: Feb 03 22:06:51 http://obra.freemoe.org/obra.install Feb 03 22:07:21 how much space does it need? Feb 03 22:09:49 ShadowJK: it's just the repo list itself, not an actual package. That said, the list may be a meg or two. Feb 03 22:10:26 lcuk, i haven't uploaded them yet, i have scanned about 1/2 of them so far..will upload and scan rest to wiki tomorrow and friday Feb 03 22:10:39 oh cool zaheerm :D Feb 03 22:11:19 if you wanted to move the /home/user to a different mount point (ie on a microSD card) on the n900 after the device is booted, how would you go about it? Feb 03 22:11:24 lcuk, delay is my fault, due to a month/6 weeks of illness straight after bcn , forgetfulness Feb 03 22:11:25 I mean beyond just the basic mount commands Feb 03 22:11:38 s/,/and/ Feb 03 22:11:39 zaheerm meant: lcukand delay is my fault, due to a month/6 weeks of illness straight after bcn , forgetfulness Feb 03 22:11:41 how would you go about having processes with open files start to use the new mount? Feb 03 22:11:48 shit my regex broke ;) Feb 03 22:11:51 zaheerm, indeed, we have all been doing different things, it surprised me how time has flown Feb 03 22:12:05 yes, majorly Feb 03 22:12:05 simoneb_: what do you mean done by hand? iirc profile change is a gconf oneliner Feb 03 22:12:16 you comingto fosdem? Feb 03 22:12:27 yep Feb 03 22:12:33 doesn't the calendar app allow executing arbitrary cmds? Feb 03 22:12:35 i am on eurostar first one on saturday Feb 03 22:12:37 wicked, shall see you there hopefully Feb 03 22:13:01 yep, haven't had time to see where maemo related stuff is there Feb 03 22:13:10 Damion2: i never heard about gconf... and don't know about the calendar sorry Feb 03 22:13:12 when I tried busybox cron it worked but needed crontab setuid root so it could hub crond Feb 03 22:13:19 embedded and cross desktop track i guess right? Feb 03 22:13:36 Damion2: i thought cron wasn't installed on the n900 Feb 03 22:13:41 simoneb_: how are you switching profile withoutg gconftool-2 ? Feb 03 22:13:53 Damion2: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.profiled /com/nokia/profiled com.nokia.profiled.set_profile string:"silent" Feb 03 22:14:01 simoneb_: it's not, I put a bigger busybox on Feb 03 22:14:05 not looked myself get some things @home taking up time Feb 03 22:14:10 got Feb 03 22:14:18 oh sorry dbus rather than gconf! Feb 03 22:15:04 Damion2: but ... there is some better option than fcron? because it looks good but needs some hand tweaking Feb 03 22:15:22 Damion2: like, manually editing /etc/event.d/rcS-late to start it up on boot Feb 03 22:15:50 that's not much effort Feb 03 22:16:26 I can't see arbitrary cmd execution on alarm, just double checked Feb 03 22:17:04 well, i was going to write a guide, it has gone much beyond the "anybody could do it" i thought at first Feb 03 22:17:35 heh Feb 03 22:17:45 maybe "every VI user could do it" would describe it better Feb 03 22:17:50 I got my n900 to show up in rhythmbox by the method described at https://wiki.maemo.org/Getting_media_content_onto_your_tablet Feb 03 22:17:57 adding a .is_audio_player file worked Feb 03 22:18:08 EDITOR could point to some gui editor Feb 03 22:18:27 uhm, good point Feb 03 22:18:58 simoneb_: tbh those geeky enough to think of timed profiles probably can install cron Feb 03 22:19:10 lol.. Feb 03 22:19:17 the rest can pay ÂŁ3 for a gui app from the store Feb 03 22:19:23 or lazy enough Feb 03 22:19:37 tax for the non technically competant Feb 03 22:19:53 i'll write an app for that and become rich Feb 03 22:20:05 well maybe i'll have a couple of free beers Feb 03 22:20:05 Do it. Feb 03 22:20:06 fsvo rich Feb 03 22:20:14 fsvo? Feb 03 22:20:21 for some value of Feb 03 22:20:35 haha Feb 03 22:20:37 it's a common maths term Feb 03 22:20:43 3ÂŁ richer of course Feb 03 22:20:45 normally fsvo x Feb 03 22:21:12 well merkins will pay only $3 Feb 03 22:22:14 considering you have to set up a corporation and buy insurance, it might be a while before you can have a beer Feb 03 22:22:34 insurance? Feb 03 22:22:40 yeah Feb 03 22:23:04 surely you can just not sell to those litigious americans and be okay with none Feb 03 22:23:14 autarch: Feb 03 22:23:15 nokia wanted you to show proof of $1million before they'd let you into the Ovi Store Feb 03 22:23:25 so we were supposed to look at the .is_audio_player Feb 03 22:23:34 but the problem i had was the total lack of any documentation for that file Feb 03 22:23:42 proof you have $1mil? Feb 03 22:23:45 yay, it worked Feb 03 22:24:11 Damion2: proof of $1m in insurance Feb 03 22:24:37 Damion2: the thing is that neither Apple or Google require so much as your name, contact info, and an account number Feb 03 22:24:51 wow that sounds hard to achieve for all but the most keen software dedvelopers Feb 03 22:25:17 not hard, but annoying Feb 03 22:25:39 certainly enough to send you to Apple, or Google Feb 03 22:25:42 what is the premium like for that? Feb 03 22:25:52 no idea Feb 03 22:26:07 * Damion2 has an idea for a business ;) Feb 03 22:26:09 not that high Feb 03 22:26:24 aktually, it keeps the fart apps out, no? Feb 03 22:26:41 it keeps more than just that Feb 03 22:26:48 and, well, to some extent even malicious apps Feb 03 22:27:39 I wonder why s2putty never bothered with the store. It's an app everyone I know on symbian installed Feb 03 22:29:02 if the developer was EU based, they may not have wanted to incorporate and get a VAT ID Feb 03 22:29:16 huh? there is absolutely no need to push your free-as-in-beer app to your customers via ovi Feb 03 22:29:45 jebba: considering enabling extras-devel needs about 10 megs atleast? Feb 03 22:29:45 mikhas: sure there is Feb 03 22:29:59 and what about extras? Feb 03 22:30:02 easier to find, gets more attention Feb 03 22:30:08 then pay for it Feb 03 22:30:30 advertisement is, shockingly, not free Feb 03 22:30:31 for a free app? Feb 03 22:30:53 well then you're better off going to Google or Apple Feb 03 22:31:08 since the upfront costs are more reasonable Feb 03 22:31:18 ShadowJK: i have all extras repos enabled and the etch one and my /var/cache/apt is 13M Feb 03 22:31:25 I recalled that the requirement for insurance has gone away Feb 03 22:31:26 the upfront costs to get an app to your client, with maemo, is exactly 0 Feb 03 22:31:31 Why would a developer want to become a sole trader or whatever to get VAT ID, and then pay nokia money to have a free app on ovi store? Feb 03 22:31:34 via extras Feb 03 22:31:47 SpeedEvil: that's an improvement Feb 03 22:31:48 iirc Apple upfront costs are higher? Feb 03 22:32:12 the developer program? yeah Feb 03 22:32:18 $99 if you have the mac already/hackintosh Feb 03 22:32:21 you have a limited amount of serials free Feb 03 22:32:33 back in school, $0 < $99 Feb 03 22:32:45 that might have change in the meantime, dunno Feb 03 22:33:08 for those who are interested, here is my guide for timed profiles on the n900: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=509451#post509451 Feb 03 22:33:09 mikhas: depends what quality of school :) Feb 03 22:33:09 extras is also disabled by default Feb 03 22:33:32 hi shinkamui Feb 03 22:33:41 iirc one of the popular s60 spotify/lastfm/whatever apps had a donation drive to fund its listing on ovi :) Feb 03 22:33:51 ml-mobile: I would think that most enable it. Feb 03 22:34:10 excepting people who don't get apps anyway. Feb 03 22:34:29 dmj726: sure, but if Nokia gets Maemo to a larger audience? no guarantees Feb 03 22:35:25 im happy with n900 the way it is Feb 03 22:35:25 I see your point. Mainstream folks might not even know it's there. Feb 03 22:36:00 hell the Engadget review missed it completely Feb 03 22:36:08 nah, just look at the horde of users breaking ota upgrade with random -devel crap Feb 03 22:36:14 I was frankly surprised at that. Feb 03 22:36:29 there is a lot missing from N900 that some people want. look over the fence Feb 03 22:36:56 I want NEP! Feb 03 22:37:01 maps, some more games, video editor, usb host mode... Feb 03 22:37:06 and for sygic to release :) Feb 03 22:37:24 ya sugic would be good!! Feb 03 22:37:29 proper painting app Feb 03 22:37:44 dmj726: i agree with Feb 03 22:38:25 I personally can't wait for mypaint Feb 03 22:38:52 iptables Feb 03 22:39:05 wifi that doesn't randomly stop working Feb 03 22:39:05 perhaps the n900 lacks something but it can also do stuff other devices can't Feb 03 22:39:19 wifi that doesn't randomly start consuming power Feb 03 22:39:39 3g/gsm that doesn't randomly decide to silently stop working Feb 03 22:39:41 etc Feb 03 22:39:46 like playing a NES emulator with a bluetooth console pad Feb 03 22:39:59 * ShadowJK has all the apps he wants already pretty much :/ Feb 03 22:40:30 oh, an email client Feb 03 22:40:50 that doesn't choke on anything but minimal mailboxen Feb 03 22:41:02 * ShadowJK has one with 12000 unread mails :( Feb 03 22:41:13 that is srs sir Feb 03 22:42:00 wifi just works for me Feb 03 22:42:22 Indeed Feb 03 22:42:36 mine stops working about twice a month Feb 03 22:42:39 wifi has to be restarted sometimes for me.. Feb 03 22:42:59 half the time unloading and reloading the kernel module fixes it Feb 03 22:43:11 hi lcuk Feb 03 22:43:12 ansd half the time it needs a reboot Feb 03 22:43:36 hai Feb 03 22:43:41 3g/gsm slightly less flaky, and there going offline for awhile fixes Feb 03 22:44:20 is there any way to get the browser to show up in portrait mode? Feb 03 22:44:21 why i see the mediaplayer running in "top" even if i don't have it running? Feb 03 22:44:32 autarch: yes Feb 03 22:44:39 autarch: try ctrl-shit-p and then rotate your device Feb 03 22:44:40 ctrl+shift+o Feb 03 22:44:48 yeah, ctrl-shift-o, sorry Feb 03 22:44:49 simoneb_: many things carry on running to save on launch time Feb 03 22:44:54 look at camera forex Feb 03 22:45:03 SpeedEvil: doesn't it chew on battery? Feb 03 22:45:56 maybe they're just on a very small load... none of them is >0.0 cpu Feb 03 22:46:05 simoneb_: no. Feb 03 22:46:10 any kool apps lately? Feb 03 22:46:11 it's more to do with them staying resident in RAM Feb 03 22:46:19 I had an idea for a cool one. Feb 03 22:46:22 simoneb_: stiff that is just in RAM doesn't use any power at all unless it runs Feb 03 22:46:27 they dont use cpu to stay loaded in ram Feb 03 22:46:35 Has anyone seen Sita Sings the Blues? Feb 03 22:46:39 that makes sense Feb 03 22:46:50 simoneb_: Most of the apps - camera for example - does not run at all unless hte user presses the button Feb 03 22:46:53 dmj726: it's an amazing film Feb 03 22:47:07 totally fucking brilliant Feb 03 22:47:12 I think it'd be awesome to make a game based on it for the n900 Feb 03 22:47:20 save sita! Feb 03 22:47:34 of course some badly written/behaving apps can consume power from just being open, but I think most apps included on n900 by default are well behaved Feb 03 22:47:42 I started a thread just a bit ago on tmo Feb 03 22:48:07 ShadowJK: what about the widgets? i've heard that leaving the desktop on a page with many widgets will draw more power? Feb 03 22:48:29 some widgets are set to update only when that desktop has focus Feb 03 22:48:38 is there any way to increase the performance on mplayer? Feb 03 22:48:49 the facebook widget is allegedly terrible either way :) Feb 03 22:48:50 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43297 Feb 03 22:48:50 so if that desktop is up, they'll update routinely Feb 03 22:48:52 ShadowJK: i've always wondered if my eyes widget moves even if the screen is of. more or less like the one who wondered if the light inside the fridge is on when the fridge is closed... Feb 03 22:49:01 autarch: that's the one Feb 03 22:49:05 i use -framedrop but its not perfect... Feb 03 22:49:05 simoneb_: strace is your friend Feb 03 22:49:14 dmj726: I was suggesting that'd be the game ;) Feb 03 22:49:23 powetop, lock keypad, wait a minute, look at results Feb 03 22:49:35 powetop? Feb 03 22:49:37 Vanadis: what kind of file? Feb 03 22:49:41 powertop Feb 03 22:49:50 i don't have that command Feb 03 22:50:05 well that sucks :) Feb 03 22:50:11 heh Feb 03 22:50:14 * ShadowJK wonders if there's a bug report Feb 03 22:50:26 I am do not get this ctrl-shift-o thing Feb 03 22:50:27 autarch: feel free to put some suggestions in to show support for the game! Feb 03 22:50:37 * pupnik_ ponders how to get people to stop being lame and useless Feb 03 22:50:39 I hit that, then closed the phone and turned it Feb 03 22:50:48 no love Feb 03 22:50:48 free coffee? Feb 03 22:51:03 pupnik_: napalm. Feb 03 22:51:11 autarch: you may need to restart the browser Feb 03 22:51:28 oh, didn't realize I had to have it open already Feb 03 22:51:33 heh Feb 03 22:51:34 uhm, nevermind, i do have powertop, i was looking into my laptop's terminal :P Feb 03 22:51:35 ShadowJK, it's a matroska container Feb 03 22:51:48 give me 2 secs for more informations Feb 03 22:51:52 what about the video? h264? resolution? Feb 03 22:52:25 where is powertop? Feb 03 22:52:42 SpeedEvil: i had it already installed Feb 03 22:54:04 I think it goes away if you reflash Feb 03 22:54:51 so when I hit ctrl-shift-o at the desktop, should anything happen? Feb 03 22:55:13 autarch: you should do it in the browser Feb 03 22:55:39 gah, this is incredibly hard to do Feb 03 22:55:56 autarch, why is it hard? Feb 03 22:55:58 that didn't seem to do anything Feb 03 22:56:06 Close the keyboard, rotate. Feb 03 22:56:08 ShadowJK: 720*480@25FPS, AVC Feb 03 22:56:10 GeneralAntilles: cause my fingers are too big to hit those keys simulataneously Feb 03 22:56:18 autarch, thumb, index finger. Feb 03 22:56:31 GeneralAntilles: yeah, maybe with your dainty little hands ;) Feb 03 22:56:36 Vanadis: that's right at the limit of what it can do ime Feb 03 22:56:36 autarch, be aware that portrait in the browser is an easter-egg testing feature only. Feb 03 22:56:47 try the one for the terminal.. it's the worst keycombo ever! Feb 03 22:56:48 -lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=all Feb 03 22:56:50 okay, then i'll stick with it Feb 03 22:56:55 could help slightly Feb 03 22:57:00 you have to be in the browers to do portrait Feb 03 22:57:05 hi all Feb 03 22:57:07 yes you have Feb 03 22:57:09 shift + ctrl + p is bad enough for me Feb 03 22:57:14 hey Feb 03 22:57:17 ok, by shift do you mean the arrow pointing up in th elower left? Feb 03 22:57:20 okay, gonna try that, but it's not bad, my old N95 8GB couldn't even handle this Feb 03 22:57:22 yes Feb 03 22:57:23 actually, anything requiring shift + ctrl =( Feb 03 22:57:29 autarch, no, the one that shifts characters. Feb 03 22:57:33 autarch, the blue arrow is fn. Feb 03 22:57:33 can some others test this repo for me to make sure they can install the catalog? http://obra.freemoe.org/obra.install Feb 03 22:57:36 tomorrow, i'll get the nokia N900 Feb 03 22:57:41 GeneralAntilles: yes, that's why we call it "shift" ;) Feb 03 22:57:47 any issue with some networks? Feb 03 22:57:49 Loreley: cool Feb 03 22:57:49 Loreley, congrats Feb 03 22:58:04 not easy to get the N900 in France Feb 03 22:58:06 Loreley: what network are you on? Feb 03 22:58:10 Orange Feb 03 22:58:17 I wouldn't know about France? Feb 03 22:58:18 Orange for mobile Feb 03 22:58:21 so it's ctrl + blue arrow + o (as in the letter o)? Feb 03 22:58:22 autarch, it's the key with the shift symbol that's been on nearly every keyboard manufactured since the 70s. ;) Feb 03 22:58:30 no, the white arrow Feb 03 22:58:43 i've refused to buy the Apple phone iDont Feb 03 22:58:44 Vanadis: h264 baseline profile instead of h264 main would probably play in built-in media player with the extra decoders support thing installed, and would be able to use the dsp accelerated codecs Feb 03 22:58:54 GeneralAntilles: yeah, that's damn hard to hit along with the control key Feb 03 22:58:57 For your information: my CPU is between 0.3-1 % most of the time when i SSH into my fone and check "top". I think its quite good considering I got facebook, msn and google chat running in the background. Feb 03 22:59:05 autarch, they're sticky. Feb 03 22:59:06 Loreley: THis is pretty much the opposite of the ithing Feb 03 22:59:08 haha, did it! Feb 03 22:59:27 ah, iDont was beautiful Feb 03 22:59:30 top isn't good for measuring cpu use that impacts standby time Feb 03 22:59:39 ctrl+shift+o again to turn it back off if you don't like it Feb 03 22:59:55 should be the first video a flashed N900 plays =) Feb 03 23:00:11 n900 Does? Feb 03 23:00:21 ShadowJK, yeah, but with the built-in one i can't choose the audio channel Feb 03 23:00:29 one of the main reasons I got a smartphone was to develop a mobile-friendlier version of http://vegguide.org, so this is very helpful Feb 03 23:01:03 most of coders are from Finland i guess Feb 03 23:01:04 keep in mind the n900 tends to be very unlike most mobile browsers Feb 03 23:01:20 -lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=all, doesn't work, i guess i'll stick with -framedrop Feb 03 23:01:20 well, I'm mostly interested in layout issues Feb 03 23:01:46 vanadis: forgot the - in -lavdopts ? Feb 03 23:01:55 dmj726: is there something specific you're thinking of? Feb 03 23:02:20 more pixels, different rendering engine, etc Feb 03 23:02:32 I thought it was the same resolution as the Nexus One? Feb 03 23:02:41 I haven't seen the nexus Feb 03 23:02:49 nite all, sweet dreams Feb 03 23:02:57 just don't count on pages seeming anything like the iphone's/ Feb 03 23:03:17 to follow the use of my communications with my mobile, i have to call the #123#...but with the N900, it doesnt work because of the # Feb 03 23:03:22 any fix for that? Feb 03 23:03:41 I thought webkit and firefox were pretty similar in terms of rendering standards compliant html & css Feb 03 23:04:50 lol Feb 03 23:09:40 Loreley, http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5357 Feb 03 23:09:42 Bug 5357: Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *# Feb 03 23:09:48 autarch, superficially, yes. Feb 03 23:10:16 Hi all Feb 03 23:10:37 hello Feb 03 23:11:08 Is there some Maemo Garage maintainer? Feb 03 23:11:47 can some others test this repo for me to make sure they can install the catalog? http://obra.freemoe.org/obra.install Feb 03 23:12:23 no one?!? Feb 03 23:12:37 Sorry, at work, no wifi here Feb 03 23:12:57 We need an application that will populate the HAM with secondary repositories Feb 03 23:13:36 works jebba Feb 03 23:13:58 crashanddie: why an app? you just need to click on an .install and done. Like a web page with .installs could do it. But I dont think they want many outside repos. Feb 03 23:13:58 crashanddie, er? Feb 03 23:14:01 oh ok..thank you Feb 03 23:14:11 pupnik_: thx :) Feb 03 23:14:21 Loreley, just wait for the next software update. Feb 03 23:14:35 jebba & GeneralAntilles: web app is fine, but we just need a link in the app folder. Feb 03 23:14:39 when will it occure? Feb 03 23:14:45 crashanddie, to do what? Feb 03 23:14:54 Loreley, dunno, but March/April seems like a reasonable bet. Feb 03 23:15:11 GeneralAntilles: show what repo is closest to you geographically Feb 03 23:15:25 crashanddie, for mirrors? Feb 03 23:15:27 crashanddie: ah, you talking mirrors? Or totally different repos? Feb 03 23:15:32 yeah, mirrors Feb 03 23:15:33 'cause Akamai already handles that. Feb 03 23:15:34 Ah Feb 03 23:15:47 updates is crawling along still jebba Feb 03 23:15:50 well, we've seen Akamai doesn't handle it very well when there's a massive upgrade Feb 03 23:15:55 ShadowJK, the mkv works now -> closed everything else in the background Feb 03 23:15:56 ya, akamai voodoo should auto select that. They do it based on what nameservers you use. Feb 03 23:16:10 pupnik_: it's a repo twice the size of extras-devel... Feb 03 23:18:11 pupnik_: if it's a long download, i can set up a repo pointer in amazon's cloud too. Feb 03 23:18:57 * ShadowJK isn't convinced akamai fucked up :) Feb 03 23:19:29 for the update, it's better to use the nokia software updater? or other procedure exists Feb 03 23:19:32 where is the caveats page? what is the apt-cache search to show just your debs? Feb 03 23:19:43 Loreley, use the Application Manager. Feb 03 23:20:07 i could use a repo for some handmade debs Feb 03 23:22:14 pupnik_: `apt-cache search . | sort | less` Feb 03 23:22:41 that will show all debs, not just the etch ones. I don't know how to apt-cache search in just a particular repo. Feb 03 23:22:50 heh. internal error ? app manager closed! Feb 03 23:23:23 need log Feb 03 23:24:47 nice when you define listen to: IP on sshd.conf it wont get up on boot even.. only gets up when its connected to right network :) Feb 03 23:24:55 a bit more security Feb 03 23:25:18 anyone know whats behind tcp/21 (ftp) , it seems to be open publicly Feb 03 23:25:21 +some other ports too Feb 03 23:25:23 * SpeedEvil is currently wondering why I can ssh to root - buyt not user Feb 03 23:25:30 onthe phone Feb 03 23:25:39 SpeedEvil, user doesn't have a password? Feb 03 23:25:40 .ssh/* is identical and perms ar right Feb 03 23:25:43 I added one Feb 03 23:25:54 and sshing asks for and accepts password Feb 03 23:26:04 it seemed to break after installing the survey app Feb 03 23:26:26 cannot reproduce crash jebba - nm Feb 03 23:26:44 would be nice to add commands on network profiles Feb 03 23:26:57 like when i connect to home LAN --> start sshd Feb 03 23:27:13 humm Feb 03 23:28:20 * fiferboy sighs Feb 03 23:29:02 omg. /me just watches a stupid SMS lottery thingie with a N900 as the price. Feb 03 23:29:19 nomis: what country? Feb 03 23:29:27 zaheerm: I finally managed to reproduce your crash... I think it's fixed now: http://people.freedesktop.org/~felipec/pecan/telepathy-msn-pecan_0.1.0~rc3-0maemo4_armel.deb Feb 03 23:29:57 Matthew-: Germany. Feb 03 23:30:57 :-) Feb 03 23:31:01 What's PyQT ? Feb 03 23:31:19 with a questlin in the style of "who is the fat kid in south park: a) Cartman, b) Bart Simpson" Feb 03 23:31:27 nomis: Stop watching Comedy Channel. Feb 03 23:31:29 :) Feb 03 23:32:15 range: it is a bad habit... Feb 03 23:32:27 it's comedy central :P Feb 03 23:32:33 zaheerm: however, I would like to know if you have tp-haze or tp-butterfly installed Feb 03 23:32:36 It's the only channel I ever saw that ad. Feb 03 23:32:45 Or lottery or whatever. Feb 03 23:40:43 http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1265238594016.png (worksafe) Feb 03 23:41:01 probably liez Feb 03 23:41:33 SpeedEvil, old -.- Feb 03 23:42:00 Matthew-: lets you write GUI apps in Python Feb 03 23:42:01 heh Feb 03 23:42:29 well, good night everyone Feb 03 23:43:16 luke-jr: thx Feb 03 23:45:59 just tried maepad.. not exactly what i expected: no way to combine sketeches and text in a single note :-( Feb 03 23:54:43 the actual question btw. is "who works in the school canteen: a) the police chief or b) the cook? Feb 04 00:06:00 is there any way to increase font size in "conversations" ? Feb 04 00:10:18 hello, Feb 04 00:12:48 possible to download an application from the extras-devel repository without adding the repository ? Feb 04 00:13:04 as in , download the application and its deps manually. Feb 04 00:13:33 FRX, Yes, that can be done. Feb 04 00:13:37 yes Feb 04 00:13:57 wget foo \ dpkg -i foo Feb 04 00:15:14 i wonder if i could put the sdk packages in a mounted image on mmc Feb 04 00:15:45 I want to create the debs for a couple of tools called driftnet and dsniff anyone point me at where to start. Feb 04 00:16:57 1 install the sdk or vmware sdk or MADD Feb 04 00:17:04 done Feb 04 00:17:57 2 get source package Feb 04 00:18:08 done Feb 04 00:18:16 underpants Feb 04 00:18:17 I need to track down the dependencie Feb 04 00:18:23 3 dpkg-buildpackage -r fakeroot -b Feb 04 00:18:58 damn, this isnt going to be easy to do manually as i thought. Feb 04 00:19:21 yeah that can take time SWFu Feb 04 00:19:40 Could I get them from the debian debs? Feb 04 00:19:46 easy debian Feb 04 00:19:52 i usually do Feb 04 00:20:32 starting with newer ones, falling back to older ones if needed Feb 04 00:22:15 Right, the source for those also? Feb 04 00:22:48 How does building the package work then Feb 04 00:22:54 SWFu: you'll have to resolve these issues to build them: Feb 04 00:22:55 http://obra.freemoe.org/freemoe-etch/d/driftnet/root.log http://obra.freemoe.org/freemoe-etch/d/dsniff/root.log Feb 04 00:23:06 SWFu: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO Feb 04 00:23:17 jebba rules Feb 04 00:23:21 they need some dependencies built first Feb 04 00:23:35 Hi jebba I comented on your post over at the forums, this has jogged my memory into getting these working :) Feb 04 00:25:15 :) Feb 04 00:25:50 Right, this is exackly what I've been looking for, thanks. Feb 04 00:26:37 followed up there too ;) Feb 04 00:27:18 Ha ha, yeah I would of let you know the error but it flashed up so quick. :) Feb 04 00:28:05 odd that it was working for me fine. I removed and readded it a bunch of times. Then i rebooted and it croaked (?!). But adding another "/" seemed to fix it.... Feb 04 00:28:15 is the new obra.install happy for you' Feb 04 00:28:16 ? Feb 04 00:29:05 Hang on I'll try again... Feb 04 00:30:01 Yes, no error now Feb 04 00:30:51 so i just added the testing repository and isntalled transmission. Feb 04 00:31:03 should i know remove the testing repo? Feb 04 00:31:06 now* Feb 04 00:31:31 does install things from more than 1 repository cause any conflicts ? Feb 04 00:31:53 should i think of this as in, the way debian does things for example ? Feb 04 00:32:42 yes afaik Feb 04 00:33:15 apt-cache show packagename should show you all versions of a pkg Feb 04 00:34:21 pupnik_ : how do i gain root acces using the rootsh i just donwload? Feb 04 00:34:35 sudo gainroot Feb 04 00:34:44 * FRX hates busybox! Feb 04 00:34:46 or just "root" here Feb 04 00:34:48 ty Feb 04 00:35:05 wtf. maybe I get senile. HOW to close pnatd? Feb 04 00:35:54 FRX: I hate busybox as well :-) Feb 04 00:37:23 guys, do these 3 repositories cause problems if all added ? Feb 04 00:37:47 or is this like adding debian stable and testing and unstable in the same source list. ?? Feb 04 00:39:22 FRX: you can add all fie. Feb 04 00:39:23 fine. Feb 04 00:39:43 it isn't like stable testing and unstable all in one cuz they all target the same base OS. Feb 04 00:40:00 nice to know. Feb 04 00:41:00 jebba : so there isnt of the same package in more than 1 repo? Feb 04 00:42:15 Right those 2 debs ,I need to find the dependencies so it builds, then, build the dependencies? Then create 1 deb? Feb 04 00:42:54 need to build distrituable debs for dependencies also, if not in repos Feb 04 00:43:01 FRX: a package can be in multiple repos. Feb 04 00:43:30 SWFu: ya. But you'll be creating one deb for each package (e.g. 1 for dsniff other for driftnet) Feb 04 00:43:45 Sure Feb 04 00:43:51 jebba : then how do they not conflict ? Feb 04 00:44:37 OK great, I'll try it tomorrow. They are both working fine in easy debian. Feb 04 00:44:42 chroot Feb 04 00:47:41 frx i think you get highest version number by default. but this is explained in apt docs Feb 04 00:48:56 doesnt seem to clear to me yet. Feb 04 00:49:05 * FRX goes to check the wiki Feb 04 00:49:06 FRX: foo-1.2.3.deb gets upploaded to extras-devel. Then after awhile it may hit extras-testing. If it's "good" it hits extras. No conflict. Feb 04 00:49:59 ok Feb 04 00:50:21 you'll always get the highest version number from the 3 repos Feb 04 00:51:12 sorry lets say if i installed foo during the time it was in devel would i see an update available when it moves to testing ? Feb 04 00:52:08 no, because you'd already have the version in testing Feb 04 00:58:21 BeRoXM player - new MOD/XM player Feb 04 00:59:28 how do you copy/paste on this device ? Feb 04 00:59:38 how to send EOF to pnatd? Feb 04 00:59:39 on the n900. Feb 04 00:59:56 FRX: CTRL-C, CTRL-V Feb 04 01:00:12 :S Feb 04 01:00:37 FRX: in browser see gestures wiki page for left to right sweep Feb 04 01:00:43 n xterm use menu Feb 04 01:00:57 I am loving how the menu looks with this theme: http://jago.pp.fi/images/linux-menu.png Feb 04 01:03:24 xterm could use a ctrl-v replacement for fullscreen mode Feb 04 01:03:39 xmodmap it i suppose? Feb 04 01:04:14 i dunno any console apps needing ctrl-v Feb 04 01:04:30 pupnik_: If only we could keymap the paste of the x buffer Feb 04 01:04:46 yeah DocScrutinizer Feb 04 01:05:24 how about simulating center mouse click Feb 04 01:05:37 how? Feb 04 01:05:51 i had a dream last night someone tried to steal my n900 and i stabbed them in the leg 5 times Feb 04 01:06:00 wahahaha Feb 04 01:06:29 just got mine today, wasnt happy at first Feb 04 01:06:36 srsly though Feb 04 01:06:41 lets say that happened Feb 04 01:06:45 but now(after the update), it works perfectly. Feb 04 01:06:46 cuz i carry a knife on me at all times Feb 04 01:06:49 would i go to jail? Feb 04 01:08:18 anyone having a booting problem Feb 04 01:08:23 depend wich jurisdiction applies to you Feb 04 01:10:36 * DocScrutinizer curses whoever wrote pnatd for not using line editing discipline Feb 04 01:11:24 f+++ng crap Feb 04 01:12:08 no ^D, even killing pnatd from second shell leaves the first terminal unresponsive Feb 04 01:13:28 oh yeah, I know I could cat|pnatd, but still Feb 04 01:13:39 acidjazz: that's why you can get a pointer tipped with a ricin capsule Feb 04 01:14:10 * SpeedEvil would start selling those on ebay - but I suspect they may be a tad illegal. Feb 04 01:14:15 won't save your N90 Feb 04 01:14:17 0 Feb 04 01:14:41 ricin takes days and weeks Feb 04 01:15:22 * DocScrutinizer suggests TASER. Don't shoot your N900 ;-P Feb 04 01:16:22 it's only tested for 8KV human body model Feb 04 01:16:27 what if i just stabbed the leg Feb 04 01:16:30 a non vital organ area Feb 04 01:16:37 i mean im being robbed here Feb 04 01:16:49 so i installed this ussd widget Feb 04 01:16:59 but it doesnt work! Feb 04 01:17:03 there is - generally - no such thing as a safe place to stab Feb 04 01:17:10 any suggestions on how to get this thing working ? Feb 04 01:17:39 i dont care about safety as much as aftermath of preventing myself from being robbed Feb 04 01:17:39 neglecting the fact that the person stabbed may sometimes object, all limbs have blood supply plenty to cause a fatality. Feb 04 01:18:00 I installed the ussd-pad - fail, due to umlauts probably Feb 04 01:18:07 The legs in minutes. Feb 04 01:18:37 insurance Feb 04 01:18:42 only if you hit major blood vessels Feb 04 01:18:43 yeah. Feb 04 01:18:59 Hire a man called Guido with a baseball bat to follow you round to recover the phone. Feb 04 01:19:07 crashanddie: true. Feb 04 01:19:31 usually the outer limbs are a safer bet -- you can always garot the whole limb out in order to prevent blood loss. Feb 04 01:19:34 a kick against the knee usually will do better Feb 04 01:19:51 why are you all steering away from the stabbing idea Feb 04 01:19:54 Chainsaw works best. Feb 04 01:19:56 im gonna ask a cop Feb 04 01:19:59 or a lawyer Feb 04 01:20:13 Are you going to argue with a man with a running chainsaw? Feb 04 01:20:14 i just want hte comfort that if im robbed and i stab im ok Feb 04 01:20:26 * SpeedEvil ponders if chainsaws are actually illegal to carry in the UK. Feb 04 01:20:41 They do not have blades exceeding 5cm Feb 04 01:20:46 depend wich jurisdiction applies to you Feb 04 01:20:49 again Feb 04 01:20:51 ^ Feb 04 01:20:54 in the UK Feb 04 01:21:02 or if you're a healthy male, centre of the stomach is a safe bet as well: as long as you don't have so much fat that you can't stop the bleeding, repairing stomach and bowels is usually pretty easy for any experienced surgeon, in addition to that, we have a surplus of bowels, so they can remove some if required Feb 04 01:21:05 im in the US Feb 04 01:21:37 there are some huge bloodvessels in that area Feb 04 01:21:40 You need a chainsaw licence Feb 04 01:21:42 either way, the safest route is just to run for your life Feb 04 01:21:56 personally - if I'm being stabbed, I want to be stabbed in the little finger. Feb 04 01:22:43 in US the burglar may sue you for forgetting your shoes in the room so the stumbles and hurts his ancle Feb 04 01:22:58 heh Feb 04 01:23:00 if someone threathens you, be it with a weapon or not, simply turn sideways -- never offer the front of your body, keep your hands high and present your shoulder... the most important line in your body is the one that goes from your face to your crotch Feb 04 01:23:02 yea DocScrutinizer thats exactly my topic Feb 04 01:23:23 crashanddie: the subject is you hvae the weapon Feb 04 01:23:41 find burglar and leave his shoes out for him to trip on? Feb 04 01:23:44 Anyway - simply wearing plate mail at all times is clearly a wise precaution. Feb 04 01:23:52 SpeedEvil: agreed Feb 04 01:24:06 SpeedEvil: not excellent when you need to run for your life though Feb 04 01:24:09 fucking heavy Feb 04 01:24:31 Titanium + motorised pogo-stick. Feb 04 01:24:49 SpeedEvil: rotfl Feb 04 01:24:54 heh Feb 04 01:25:04 those jumping stilts look cool Feb 04 01:25:06 mere slapstick Feb 04 01:25:09 I'm starting to get quite pissed off at all those laws that seemingly protect everyone Feb 04 01:25:22 mhm Feb 04 01:25:29 for fuck's sake, if the guy is in my house while he's not supposed to be, he loses all his rights (well, not all, but those to attack ME) Feb 04 01:25:36 * SpeedEvil passes crashanddie a really hot cup of chocolate, some days ago. Feb 04 01:25:48 house in what country? Feb 04 01:25:56 any developed country Feb 04 01:26:01 if it's third world, fair game Feb 04 01:26:04 I'm starting to feel pissed about USSD-pad and all this *100# issue Feb 04 01:26:20 i was going to say if you said usa then i would find that amusing Feb 04 01:26:20 DocScrutinizer: hey, we're having a nice conversation here, don't bloody ruin it Feb 04 01:26:25 crashanddie: And if hje's merely drunk - let himself into his old house with his key that still works? Feb 04 01:26:33 crashanddie: sorry :-P Feb 04 01:26:51 DocScrutinizer: I saw something in extras or rextras-devel - usssd widgit Feb 04 01:26:54 or something like htat Feb 04 01:26:58 SpeedEvil: nope, but then again, if you don't change the locks of a house you buy you're an idiot and deserve to be punished Feb 04 01:27:02 widget is crap Feb 04 01:27:04 SpeedEvil: there's no forced entry there Feb 04 01:27:07 k Feb 04 01:27:13 crashanddie: indeed Feb 04 01:27:20 I need to enter a 12 digit code to chaRGE UP ACCOUNT Feb 04 01:27:24 oops caps Feb 04 01:27:55 At least here, you can also phone them Feb 04 01:27:59 and top up that way Feb 04 01:28:23 let's just go for plain easy rules. If you break a window, force a lock or enter through a partially open window while everything is locked, you're breaking the law. If my door is wide open, or you have the keys and know the alarm code, it's my own god damn fault. No bullshit with being allowed to shoot people, just call the cops and get over it Feb 04 01:28:29 I mean - phone them with a voucher code Feb 04 01:28:40 I managed to do with pnatd but broke my fingers due to no bs and no EOF to make pnatd die gracefully Feb 04 01:29:43 * SpeedEvil has been playing with GPS bugs today. Feb 04 01:30:02 ~5 reboots and GPS-forget-position app with SIM in and out Feb 04 01:30:11 worst I've seen is ~10 min to get a lock Feb 04 01:30:20 People shouldn't have guns, you should only have guns when your work requires you to, and then again, you should have access to said gun during duty hours. Feb 04 01:30:22 not THAT bad Feb 04 01:30:43 * DocScrutinizer wonders what's the forget-pos-app looks alike Feb 04 01:30:47 However - the forget applet is broken - I got a lock once after about 10 min of battery out in 5s Feb 04 01:31:21 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026 Feb 04 01:31:22 Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view Feb 04 01:31:24 see the attachment Feb 04 01:31:59 I accept that the guys who transport money from one bank to another (how do you call those guys in english?) require protection, and no, throwing more metal at the van isn't helping, because the baddies just go with more and more fire power. However, they shouldn't have access to a bloody arsenal at home. Feb 04 01:32:02 Feb 04 01:32:36 security guards. Feb 04 01:33:02 isn't there a specific word for those transporters? Feb 04 01:33:12 Or bankrobbers - dpending on whether it's authorised or non-authorised transfers. Feb 04 01:33:16 Umm Feb 04 01:33:20 lol Feb 04 01:33:24 not really Feb 04 01:33:36 They sometimes get referred to by the name of the company Feb 04 01:33:38 SpeedEvil: pffffft. ELF w(o src >:-(( Feb 04 01:34:01 DocScrutinizer: you have strace. Anyway - it's been said that the interesting stuff is all opaque uinside the modem Feb 04 01:34:22 inside the MODEM???`? o.O Feb 04 01:35:03 yes Feb 04 01:35:12 the GPS is run by the modem chipset Feb 04 01:36:14 * DocScrutinizer sighs Feb 04 01:36:50 any idea bout the modem type? Feb 04 01:37:02 it's a TI chipset. Feb 04 01:37:05 Not the calypso. Feb 04 01:37:07 :) Feb 04 01:37:08 eeeek Feb 04 01:37:34 guys Feb 04 01:37:42 how do i get this ussd wiget working Feb 04 01:37:43 ? Feb 04 01:37:57 widget Feb 04 01:38:30 i thinked ussdpad manually with python-osso and that also didnt work Feb 04 01:38:37 installed* Feb 04 01:38:45 thinked? :S Feb 04 01:39:48 I'm getting gtk-config: not found. yet libgtk-2.0-0 is installed, any ideas? Feb 04 01:40:30 I have no idea at all - I just saw it. Feb 04 01:40:50 Fortunately, I have no need of it - my WSP is controllable over the internets. Feb 04 01:43:12 FRX: you need to configure the widget first. Baasically the number / code it has to send Feb 04 01:43:38 how? Feb 04 01:43:50 sigh Feb 04 01:43:54 wait, i found that post Feb 04 01:44:03 maep and maemo-mapper have agreed to share tile-cache http://mail.gnome.org/archives/libchamplain-list/2010-January/msg00052.html Feb 04 01:44:04 hit blank screen, hit gear Feb 04 01:44:27 hit wrench of widget Feb 04 01:45:30 then add widget ---> ussd widget Feb 04 01:45:38 yes, thats not working Feb 04 01:46:31 FRX: worksforme Feb 04 01:46:56 how do i configure it with an ussd-code ? Feb 04 01:47:39 basicly what i did was i got the package from extras-devel, it installed Feb 04 01:47:51 hit blank screen, hit gear Feb 04 01:47:52 but when i want to added it, it just doesnt show on the desktop Feb 04 01:47:54 hit wrench of widget Feb 04 01:48:53 well for me it shows up on desktop right after "add widget -> ussdwidget" Feb 04 01:51:17 DocScrutinizer : should i have installed some packages manually ? Feb 04 01:51:22 not on my retry though Feb 04 01:51:30 like pexpect ? Feb 04 01:51:46 not afaik Feb 04 01:52:20 I did after I tested widged, for pad. maybe that's the cause it doesn't work anymore Feb 04 01:52:34 I installed the widget via appmanager Feb 04 02:01:43 I finally have some time to try to flash my brand new doa n900 before I send it to rma. Feb 04 02:02:23 what exactly am I flashing? the 32GB drive or some other memory? Feb 04 02:05:15 ok the channel's asleep, I will try tomorrow Feb 04 02:05:20 uhsf, the 256MB OneNAND Feb 04 02:06:17 GeneralAntilles: so it has nothing to do with that eMMC thing? Feb 04 02:06:23 No Feb 04 02:06:55 i don't know much about the hardware yet Feb 04 02:07:17 so the os is installed on that OneNAND thing Feb 04 02:07:43 The OneNAND in the PoP on top of the OMAP3 is 256MB and contains the rootfs, the kernel and the bootloader. Feb 04 02:07:59 The 32GB eMMC has swap, MyDocs and home Feb 04 02:08:30 mydocs sounds microsoftish Feb 04 02:08:53 Doesn't really have anything to do with Windows. Feb 04 02:09:33 yeah - well... MyDocs whole reason for existance is basically that microsoft have won, and for pople to be able to read the storage from random devices - it needs to be formatted as microsoft. Feb 04 02:09:53 SpeedEvil, er, well, MyDocs is only FAT since Fremantle. ;) Feb 04 02:10:11 770-N810 it was JFFS2. Feb 04 02:10:14 so i'm grabbing the "flasher" and the "fiasco" image and follow the guide Feb 04 02:10:32 GeneralAntilles: yeah - I'm guessing it wasn't designed to be mountable in the same way the n900 is Feb 04 02:10:34 "fiasco" doesn't sound encouraging to me Feb 04 02:18:43 hi, sind deutsche hier? Feb 04 02:20:57 is anyone active? Feb 04 02:21:15 maybe some nokia n900 owner? Feb 04 02:21:21 most people seem to have gone to sleep. Feb 04 02:21:32 It was qute active a few hours ago Feb 04 02:22:46 And yes, I own a n900. Feb 04 02:22:56 * mtnbkr_ is here and s a n900 owner chatting inirc on his n900 :) Feb 04 02:25:04 what's the difference between the first and second variants of maemo os 2009? and should i choose usa or global? Feb 04 02:25:04 very quiet tonight though in here Feb 04 02:26:25 uhsf: second is a bugfix - lots of basically Feb 04 02:26:55 i will take usa, even though i'm in canada Feb 04 02:29:33 whats your experience with your n900? Feb 04 02:30:37 i life in germany and i maybe buy a n900 - but with that price i want to be sure ;) Feb 04 02:31:29 you don't wan't to hear my experience Feb 04 02:31:40 i read many comments at the german amazon page, that was mostly positiv Feb 04 02:32:12 ohh of course, negativ comments are more useful than "the best device i ever had..." Feb 04 02:33:32 Personally - my main complaint after 2 months is that they only supply 1 pointer. Feb 04 02:34:08 you mean no multi-touch? Feb 04 02:34:21 i don't care much about this Feb 04 02:34:22 i think the stylus Feb 04 02:34:56 If you think of it as a phone - it is a usable phone - with a few apps - though growing numbers. There are some problems with some aspects of it. Feb 04 02:35:21 If however you value having basically a 'complete' linux box in your pocket - it can be lots more. Feb 04 02:35:23 speedevil : like? Feb 04 02:36:14 You can't call numbers beginning with *'s for network services, you can's schedule tasks every second week, ... Feb 04 02:36:20 can't Feb 04 02:36:47 however - many of those bugs are already fixed - and will be released in next firmware - likely along in a month or two. Feb 04 02:37:20 * b-man17 hopes fiasco-gen will be avalible in the next firmware release :P Feb 04 02:37:48 But for me - the minor bugs I have hit don't inconvenience me as I've always found an easy alternative way round them. And the convenience of being able to - when my laptop hd started making strange noises - to simply rsync everything over to the phone - is awesome. Feb 04 02:37:50 * FRX doesnt understand why ussdpad and widget arent working :S Feb 04 02:38:53 SpeedEvil: Do you know when they'll be putting out the firware upgrade? Feb 04 02:39:01 Pavel: no. Feb 04 02:39:09 Above was solely a guess. Feb 04 02:39:16 okay, i manage my tasks with icedove (ligthning) Feb 04 02:39:31 it should run with maemo too Feb 04 02:39:37 correct? Feb 04 02:40:44 TheOne: If someone ports it. Feb 04 02:40:50 debian? Feb 04 02:40:58 there are arm debs Feb 04 02:41:17 did they not work with maemo? Feb 04 02:41:26 TheOne: Yes, but while it's heavily based on Debian, some things are different. Feb 04 02:41:33 TheOne: I don't know how much porting is required. Feb 04 02:42:01 Also, consider that Icedove is designed for a bigger, non-touch screen. Feb 04 02:42:13 TheOne: That said, I'd love to see it ported. Feb 04 02:42:15 There is also the issue that if you can get it to work 'easily' it may suck Feb 04 02:42:23 in that - yeah Feb 04 02:42:34 you ideally want to be able to use it with fingers Feb 04 02:43:00 The good news is that we may, one day, get an Android emulator running on the system. ;) Feb 04 02:43:06 So though the screen is 800*480 - you really want your buttons at least 80*48 - and that's really touchy Feb 04 02:43:19 160*96 is lots easier Feb 04 02:43:29 SpeedEvil: Well, it does come with a stylus. Feb 04 02:43:35 True. Feb 04 02:43:36 SpeedEvil: Though I don't use it much, myself. Feb 04 02:44:01 I haven't used it in a week. Feb 04 02:44:05 Still looking for it. Feb 04 02:44:34 SpeedEvil: Lost it? Feb 04 02:44:38 Pavel: google for ubuntu android -> android execution environment also at launchpad project name ubudroid Feb 04 02:44:53 but mr. frey does not share his code Feb 04 02:44:54 TheOne: I know. Hence my comment. Feb 04 02:44:59 Ah. Feb 04 02:45:21 i guess google buy that project Feb 04 02:45:49 since may 09 the ubuntu android projects lack all Feb 04 02:46:51 i'm trying this command but it doesn't work sudo ./flasher-3.5 -F -f -R Feb 04 02:47:00 the last sign of life of ubudroid was august 2009 at frey's blog Feb 04 02:47:10 TheOne: Go figure... Feb 04 02:49:11 TheOne: There is this: http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Run-Android-Applications-on-Ubuntu-115152.shtml . You can't really create a mobile device SDK without providing an emulator. Feb 04 02:50:05 yeah correct but i was watching ubudroid cause they was working on some kernel patches Feb 04 02:50:19 to emulate the android binder ipc system Feb 04 02:50:58 they could runs apps that uses hardware calls Feb 04 02:51:51 at that presentation they deactivated such calls Feb 04 02:53:17 here can read some infos about it http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/canonical-developers-aim-to-make-android-apps-run-on-ubuntu.ars Feb 04 02:53:47 how to install flasher-3.5 on non debian linux? Feb 04 02:54:09 is it possible that flasher-3.5 doesn't work on 64-bit? Feb 04 02:54:16 TheOne: I saw. Feb 04 02:54:33 TheOne: Indeed, I didn't investigate it that deeply --- I guess you are right. Feb 04 02:55:35 i think it should be easier to build an android ex env for maemo than ubuntu Feb 04 02:55:59 cause android and maemo are arm based and they try a x86 build Feb 04 02:56:41 TheOne: One thing to consider is that MJ Frey stopped updating his blog around August, with the last update being a criticism of Android, so maybe he is just busy or lost interest. Or maybe that's what Google wants us to think... Hmmm... Feb 04 02:56:42 and of course the mobile specific stuff could stay Feb 04 02:57:29 i wrote an email to him, but no answer Feb 04 02:57:41 oh this is annoying Feb 04 02:57:51 kp-enter not bound Feb 04 02:58:32 err Feb 04 02:58:40 is undefined Feb 04 02:58:44 emacs ftl Feb 04 02:59:37 can someone tell me about the fm transmitter? Feb 04 02:59:40 why this command doesn't work sudo ./flasher-3.5 -F -f -R? Feb 04 02:59:41 TheOne: Maybe someone should send him an e-mail on some unrelated subject that's likely to be of interest to him... Feb 04 02:59:50 TheOne: Just to see... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 04 02:59:57 2010