**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 13 02:59:58 2010 Feb 13 03:03:00 Hello Feb 13 03:26:37 Anyone been having a problem with MfE failing to sync every time, recently? Feb 13 03:26:52 It used to work if I rebooted the n900...the first sync would work. Now none of them are Feb 13 03:27:41 mine still syncs regularly Feb 13 03:28:01 A man breaks his wrist, and at the hospital he asks his doctor if he'll be able to play the piano after it heals Feb 13 03:28:24 The doctor looks at the man and smiles "Why of course, no problem at all" Feb 13 03:29:01 The patient's face is filled with joy, and he replies "That's bloody brilliant, because I couldn't play the piano before!!!" Feb 13 03:29:11 ? Feb 13 03:33:28 ShadowJK: you think I should dare to setup a IMAP account on N900, to that mailbox with 86.000 msgs? :-P Feb 13 03:36:21 How many of you also got that fucking moron PMing you on TMO about Quake 3 mods? Feb 13 03:36:40 LOL Feb 13 03:36:45 GA for sure Feb 13 03:36:53 Yes, me. Feb 13 03:36:57 I ignored it. Feb 13 03:36:58 Yeah, I know he did. Feb 13 03:37:04 I got 4 copies of it. Feb 13 03:37:20 bot? Feb 13 03:37:32 Or just really fucking impatient. Feb 13 03:37:51 or an idiot Feb 13 03:38:01 Oops, the cat found the catnip. . . . Feb 13 03:38:02 Yeah, can't forget that one. Feb 13 03:39:12 CAAAAAATNIIIIIIP Feb 13 03:39:28 ehehehehehehehe Feb 13 03:39:53 smoked that once. Wasn't exactly a great experience ;-) Feb 13 03:41:45 amazingly enough my cat ignored it completely. Was more a fan of cooked potatoe's peels - weird pet Feb 13 03:43:50 crashanddie_: yo Feb 13 03:44:13 ?????????? Feb 13 03:45:27 DigitalPioneer: I'm switching to a new IRC client Feb 13 03:46:59 aah Feb 13 04:12:08 just testing guys, don't worry Feb 13 04:28:22 Sysinfo for 'halley': Linux 2.6.31.5-0.1-desktop running KDE 4.3.1 (KDE 4.3.1) "release 6", CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU T2330 @ 1.60GHz at 800 MHz (3199 bogomips), HD: 78/104GB, RAM: 1657/1737MB, 228 proc's, 28.9d up Feb 13 04:29:18 oops Feb 13 04:29:32 DigitalPioneer: please don't do that in here Feb 13 04:29:40 sorry Feb 13 04:30:05 especially considering that's pretty crap sysinfo ;) Feb 13 04:30:15 :-P Feb 13 05:21:39 one dead already at the olympics Feb 13 05:22:05 Told you it was a bad idea Feb 13 05:22:20 no you didn't Feb 13 05:22:45 Well I should've Feb 13 05:24:15 amazing lightshow Feb 13 05:24:40 crashanddie: apparently a few crashes prior to the fatality Feb 13 05:25:48 /ignore #channel ALL -JOINS -PARTS -QUITS Feb 13 05:26:30 sorry :) Feb 13 05:47:42 i just visited that ovi website for the first time and i'm surprised that it's very well done Feb 13 05:48:09 mediaplayer volumeslider nonfunctional (as in "no effect"), and not in sync to the systray vol-slider Feb 13 05:48:17 my guess is that ovi must be very uninteresting to maemo fans Feb 13 05:50:26 ahh, only when headset plugged in Feb 13 05:52:10 not reproduceable though. So maybe fix is not related to unplugging the headset Feb 13 06:03:53 DocScrutinizer: yeah, noticed the same thing here Feb 13 06:04:35 DocScrutinizer: volume slider is responsive when headphones plugged in, however volume levels seems inconsistent Feb 13 06:06:58 well, the mediaplayer one had no effect whatsoever here, except sliding nicely from right to left and back Feb 13 06:08:04 darn, forgot the volume rocker button Feb 13 06:10:54 and - my favourite :-( - now everything back to normal and no idea how to trigger it again Feb 13 06:13:37 well, maybe it's been the IRC notification via play-sound that messed it up Feb 13 06:14:15 I'll continue to poke it later Feb 13 06:21:46 I was happy when I realized that my n900 kept different volume presets for headphone and non headphone use Feb 13 06:22:08 when I plug my headphones in it remembered the volume level that I used last time I had the headphones in Feb 13 06:22:16 when I unplug them it goes back to what it was Feb 13 06:22:46 could be annoying in some situations, but for my usage it is very nice Feb 13 06:23:27 I added the headphones daemon Feb 13 06:23:49 the one that pauses the media player upon disconnection of the headphones Feb 13 06:23:55 that's nifty Feb 13 06:24:19 Proteous: yup, that's how it is handled normally Feb 13 06:25:06 Proteous: it's in extars Feb 13 06:25:10 extras** Feb 13 06:25:28 The n97 just puts this big thing covering you screen that stays there for 3 seconds and locks you out from doing anything when you plug or unplug your headphones Feb 13 06:25:39 "YOU HAVE UNPLUGGED YOUR HEADPHONES!" Feb 13 06:25:52 really? you don't say Feb 13 06:26:42 That's handy if your deaf. Feb 13 06:26:44 god I hate the symbian s60v5 notifications that lock the screen Feb 13 06:27:10 YOU HAVE UNLOCKED YOUR SCREEN, NOW WAIT FOR 4 SECONDS FOR THIS TO GO AWAY BEFORE YOU CAN USE YOUR PHONE Feb 13 06:27:36 well, it's probably more like 2 seconds, but god it's a long 2 seconds Feb 13 06:27:50 Feb 13 06:27:54 Proteous: don't worry, nokia will fix maemo soon Feb 13 06:28:50 I was singing praises of maemo, it's s60v5 that I hate :) Feb 13 06:29:10 er, symbian s60 that is Feb 13 06:32:32 * DocScrutinizer facepalms Feb 13 06:32:49 I stated FM-receiver app :-S Feb 13 06:32:59 if only we could harness the facepalm energy for the good of the world Feb 13 06:33:04 started* probably that brole the volslider Feb 13 06:33:08 lol Feb 13 06:33:10 it does Feb 13 06:34:00 on sybian s60v5 it would bring up a screen locking dialog box that would warn you that you can't adjust the volume when the fm-transmitter is on, then make you wait an eternity till you can use your phone again Feb 13 06:34:52 receiver though Feb 13 06:35:00 hmm Feb 13 06:35:03 nevertheless Feb 13 06:35:19 why would that make the volume not work Feb 13 06:35:22 it has that ugly BT hack Feb 13 06:35:50 which probably messes up audio completely Feb 13 06:37:55 there's even a popup on app launch that says "bla Bluetooth blub mumble" just short enough you notice you haven't enough time to read it :-P Feb 13 06:38:02 not like S60 XP Feb 13 06:38:05 heh Feb 13 06:38:20 how to customize the applications icons page? Feb 13 06:41:47 uhsf: there is some stuff in this mod your n900 thread on talk.meamo.org http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39565 Feb 13 06:43:20 some cool stuff on this page in that thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39565&page=58 Feb 13 06:43:39 ffs, I'm downloading at 0.2kbps Feb 13 06:43:48 how can a hotel live on that? Feb 13 06:43:49 djeezus Feb 13 06:43:53 doh Feb 13 06:44:06 if you are in a hotel... in space.... Feb 13 06:44:58 Proteous: I think it's fair to assume that I'm *not* in a hotel in space Feb 13 06:45:16 crashanddie: depends on the drugs Feb 13 06:48:39 ifreq: again, fair to assume I'm not on any drugs Feb 13 06:48:47 lets hope so Feb 13 06:48:49 ifreq: I'm sane enough that I'd realise if I were on drugs or not Feb 13 06:49:00 we can only pray for that crashanddie Feb 13 06:49:23 good morning btw. Feb 13 06:49:26 or you could start shutting the hell up :) Feb 13 06:49:31 :D Feb 13 06:50:14 * crashanddie facepalms Feb 13 06:50:20 crashanddie: have you removed the banforward yet? Feb 13 06:50:22 the first download at 20kbps is corrupted Feb 13 06:50:27 Myrtti: yeah Feb 13 06:50:38 good Feb 13 06:50:46 Myrtti: also switched to a more decent irc client Feb 13 06:50:59 hehe Feb 13 06:51:11 actually Feb 13 06:51:16 I think it's time to do some cleanup Feb 13 06:52:15 Myrtti: thanks for opening my eyes and getting me on a proper IRC client again Feb 13 06:52:31 can't believe I actually lived without /alias for all this time Feb 13 06:59:54 Hi, everyone. I have what should be a simple question. Apt on my N810 isn't successfully refreshing packages due to a depenency issue with gizmo-installer (can't parse). I'd like to fix this, but don't know where to start. The terminal output is here: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/702750 Feb 13 07:07:01 Mouser-: you should have a status-old file. Make a backup of your current status file (mv /var/lib/dpkg/status /mv/lib/dpkg/status.bak) and use the old status file (cp /var/dpkg/status-old /var/dpkg/status) Feb 13 07:11:54 Hi, everyone. I have what should be a simple question. Apt on my N810 isn't successfully refreshing packages due to a depenency issue with gizmo-installer (can't parse). I'd like to fix this, but don't know where to start. The terminal output is here: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/702750 Feb 13 07:12:38 I was disconnected before. Due to this error, I can't install, update, or uninstall any program. Feb 13 07:13:45 Mouser-: you should have a status-old file. Make a backup of your current status file (mv /var/lib/dpkg/status /mv/lib/dpkg/status.bak) and use the old status file (cp /var/dpkg/status-old /var/dpkg/status) Feb 13 07:21:38 crashanddie: thanks. I don't seem to have either of those files, though. Feb 13 07:23:10 mouser-: google it, this issue has been covered quite a few times on Debian Feb 13 07:29:53 crashanddie: I'll see what I can find. Feb 13 07:47:21 hi. i've been looking for a list of maemo-compatible devices on the web, but no luck.is there such a list somewhere? Feb 13 08:00:06 wormsxulla: look for what mer runs on Feb 13 08:01:49 only smartq7 and smartq7 but I don't think they have a phone in them Feb 13 08:02:27 smartq5,q7,touchbook,wii, etc :P Feb 13 08:02:32 but yeah, no phone Feb 13 08:02:54 i'm looking for an internet tablet, not a "phone" Feb 13 08:03:44 i want to have svg support, so android is out, windows mobile is blah, so i thought maemo was the only choice? Feb 13 08:05:18 what about the new "dell mini 5", will it be able to run maemo? Feb 13 08:05:33 (sorry for the stupid questions, but this is a jungle) Feb 13 08:06:55 right, maemo primarily runs on nokia devices Feb 13 08:07:04 it may run in maemo variants (SDK based) on some omap3 devices Feb 13 08:07:26 then there's Mer, which is community Maemo, or poor-mans maemo if you use a bad term, which is very portable Feb 13 08:07:39 omap3. i'll look for this, thanks Feb 13 08:07:50 oh, so mer is a maemo variant? Feb 13 08:08:07 it is another way of looking at the maemo platform Feb 13 08:08:17 :) Feb 13 08:08:17 but keep in mind that sdk variants are not feature complete at all Feb 13 08:08:18 :P Feb 13 08:08:46 what features are missing, roughly? if you know that :) Feb 13 08:08:57 well we can start with connectivity daemons Feb 13 08:09:14 it is roughly comparable to running the SDK environment on a live device. Feb 13 08:09:15 hmmmm Feb 13 08:09:29 * RST38h moos at Stskeeps Feb 13 08:09:35 heh Feb 13 08:09:37 moo RST38h Feb 13 08:09:39 Stskeeps: How is existance? =) Feb 13 08:09:52 RST38h: waiting for coffee and playing with a new way of doing Mer Feb 13 08:10:39 this is getting complicated, "a new way of doing mer", which is already "another sort of maemo" ;) Feb 13 08:10:59 wormsxulla: welcome to open source Feb 13 08:11:00 :P Feb 13 08:11:27 wormsxulla: http://blip.tv/file/3209258 Feb 13 08:11:28 Stskeeps: i'm familiar with open source, but more in the bigger hardware area :p Feb 13 08:11:53 if you stick by exact definitions there's no Maemo OS outside nokia devices Feb 13 08:12:42 it would be unconceivable to install maemo on other devices? is there a special reason? Feb 13 08:14:17 well, there's no blessed base port (yet). but what mer does is take the open components and ports them Feb 13 08:15:11 i've read somewhere (on wikipedia i think) that a part of maemo is not open source? is that right? Feb 13 08:15:38 right, check out http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html Feb 13 08:15:46 thanks Feb 13 08:15:51 mer's goal is to be mostly open source with closed source blobs only on the HW side Feb 13 08:16:19 HW? hardware? Feb 13 08:16:27 * wormsxulla hates acronyms Feb 13 08:19:30 yes Feb 13 08:19:37 :) Feb 13 08:21:43 the n900 doesn't have an omap processor? Feb 13 08:21:53 (but the n810 has one?) Feb 13 08:21:57 it has a omap3 Feb 13 08:22:01 ok Feb 13 08:33:31 wormsxulla: get used to them, it's common in IT Feb 13 08:33:42 wormsxulla: WTMTLAIOI,S Feb 13 08:34:02 wormsxulla: (Way Too Many Three Letter Acronyms In Our Industry, Sadly) Feb 13 08:34:08 crashanddie: i do not believe in the commonness :p Feb 13 08:34:10 interestingly, TLA is a TLA Feb 13 08:34:41 wormsxulla: FYI: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5513 Feb 13 08:34:42 we're numbers, not letters! (oops ;) ) Feb 13 08:35:37 ah, another april's fool rfc :) Feb 13 08:35:53 wormsxulla: or maybe you could try: hypertexttransferprotocol://tools.InternetEngineeringTaskForce.organisation/hypertextmarkuplanguage/requestforcomments5513 ? Feb 13 08:36:04 :) Feb 13 08:36:23 If I were on a court, I'd say game, set and match... Feb 13 08:36:25 why not! how about a browser which recognizes natural language? Feb 13 08:38:13 do people use the n-tablet as phones, really? Feb 13 08:38:17 where is the fun with that? Feb 13 08:38:47 or are the internet tablets mostly used as internet thingies? Feb 13 08:39:42 I use mine as a computer on which I can do calls Feb 13 08:40:07 wormsxulla: yes Feb 13 08:40:45 wormsxulla: I've used my n810 for quite a while as a skype phone, it had its own skype account etc. I still use the n900 as a skype phone mainly Feb 13 08:40:56 oh Feb 13 08:41:19 that means your isp allows this, which isn't the case in my country Feb 13 08:41:30 crashanddie: you're in the us? Feb 13 08:41:41 wormsxulla: I travel for a living, I don't have "an isp" Feb 13 08:41:54 I just happen to piggyback whichever wifi connection I happen to come across Feb 13 08:41:59 nice job ;) Feb 13 08:42:14 and sometimes I force luck by letting my macbook "guess" the wifi password ;) Feb 13 08:42:34 it's not easy to find open wifi connections here these days Feb 13 08:42:39 * wormsxulla sighs Feb 13 08:43:04 so netstumbler runs on maemo just fine? Feb 13 08:43:35 (oh. you need a macbook too!) Feb 13 08:44:23 is this problem with the battery that i read about still existing? Feb 13 08:44:31 on the nokia tablets? Feb 13 08:46:13 you could use aircrack-ng natively on the n900 Feb 13 08:47:08 i see :) Feb 13 08:48:13 does it come in pink? ;) Feb 13 08:48:38 I have to say I manage enough hours with my battery, I do have a spare in case I go somewhere where I can't charge my n900 Feb 13 08:49:02 define "enough hours"? Feb 13 08:49:46 wormsxulla; take a look at skinit.com if you don't want to have it in black Feb 13 08:49:53 kewl! Feb 13 08:50:52 wifi all the time I'm at home or at work, bluetooth when I'm walking to/back from work. I charge it when I go to bed, maybe read some at that time Feb 13 08:51:37 so I would say I have like ~13h usage with spare on the battery Feb 13 08:51:48 but of course it depends on how much you do Feb 13 08:52:00 is there one of these stupid screen saver functions which turns the screen off when you don't use the device? Feb 13 08:52:14 i would kill whoever invented this :p Feb 13 08:52:27 13h is good Feb 13 08:52:44 yes, but you can configure it, I have it on 2mins inactivity (of course it won't consider video playback as inactivity) Feb 13 08:52:49 wormsxulla: it is good for battery usage Feb 13 08:54:03 I hate screensavers on desktops, but on the n900 it's handy with the screen off Feb 13 08:54:27 fair enough Feb 13 08:54:35 and adjusting the screen intensity helps to preserve the battery Feb 13 08:55:09 at which intensity do you have yours set? Feb 13 08:55:18 second lowest Feb 13 08:55:41 i always find that these screens are too bright Feb 13 08:56:03 the manufacturers seem to believe that bright == attractive! :p Feb 13 08:56:19 "shiny" Feb 13 08:56:24 wormsxulla, Wait 'til your an old coot like me. I always find them too dim. Feb 13 08:56:32 :) Feb 13 08:56:40 Ken-Young; and too small? Feb 13 08:57:00 hehe Feb 13 08:57:19 Ken-Young: maybe you should do /nick Ken-old ;) Feb 13 08:57:21 Trizt, Strangely, I still have very good vision about 8 inches in front of my face. Terrible vision at all other distances without glasses. Feb 13 08:58:23 :) everything father away then 20cm is too far away anyway Feb 13 08:59:01 i'm sure you could build one of these mini-projectors with a omap3 thing, and have the nokia's screen projected on a wall :) Feb 13 08:59:12 that would be cool Feb 13 09:03:00 how do you recognize a genuine nokia n900 from a counterfeit? Feb 13 09:03:13 booting it? Feb 13 09:03:19 huh Feb 13 09:03:30 there are counterfeits? Feb 13 09:03:31 drop test Feb 13 09:03:36 wormsxulla; depends if it comes from the same factory or another one Feb 13 09:03:38 doc|home: aye Feb 13 09:03:39 one runs maemo one runs mean0 Feb 13 09:03:41 doc|home: yes Feb 13 09:03:45 wormsxulla: there's a few big difference Feb 13 09:03:54 man, I can't even get a real one!! Feb 13 09:03:55 crashanddie: which ones? Feb 13 09:04:02 wormsxulla: the OS, for one Feb 13 09:04:02 nevermind get access to counterfeits Feb 13 09:04:15 doc|home: i see people offering n900 for really odd prices Feb 13 09:04:19 wormsxulla: link? Feb 13 09:04:31 £300 from nokia shop was bargain Feb 13 09:04:47 crashanddie: they are french small ads sites Feb 13 09:04:49 300 what? Feb 13 09:04:59 £300GBP Feb 13 09:05:03 wormsxulla: pas grave, envoie le lien quand meme Feb 13 09:05:06 yeah, prices like 200 € Feb 13 09:05:50 with subscription? Feb 13 09:06:04 sim free Feb 13 09:06:16 the way god intended Feb 13 09:06:41 Morning :) Feb 13 09:07:37 morning Feb 13 09:07:38 "...QLogic has sued archrival Emulex for posting a web video that shows an egg frying on a QLogic converged network adapter..." Feb 13 09:07:48 Flamewar, corporate sty;e Feb 13 09:08:38 we need more of those Feb 13 09:10:45 Morning, all Feb 13 09:11:38 morn Feb 13 09:14:32 * wormsxulla grrrrs Feb 13 09:14:34 crashanddie: http://paris.kijiji.fr/f-n900-Toutes-les-annonces-W0QQKeywordZn900QQisSearchFormZtrue Feb 13 09:17:35 wormsxulla: the descriptions show you that it's not a real person writing that... Or at least, their french is so bad it's just laughable Feb 13 09:17:56 crashanddie: obviously. so what are they offering? Feb 13 09:18:07 china-made devices? Feb 13 09:18:16 wormsxulla: to get beaten up when you go pick up the device with the 200euros in your pocket? Feb 13 09:18:24 :) Feb 13 09:19:02 they wouldn't dare beating up a girl! Feb 13 09:19:13 (i hope!) Feb 13 09:19:25 mdr, t'es une nana? Feb 13 09:19:30 oui Feb 13 09:21:23 wormsxulla: et tu veux un n900 pour quoi, exactement? Feb 13 09:21:29 RST38h: if you want breakfast go with qlogic :) Feb 13 09:22:24 crashanddie: i want to run http://code.google.com/p/svg-edit/ on my next "phone" :p Feb 13 09:51:18 Jaffa: can you send me the text file you used to populate the two last editions of mwkn? Feb 13 09:51:43 Jaffa: I need to start using real test cases Feb 13 09:53:07 http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-342 Feb 13 09:55:04 Jaffa: I'm going to get some food, if you could send them by email that would be very useful. Thanks Feb 13 10:00:13 hello I have some problems using syncevolution on my n900....I get an error message "CurlTransport Failure: couldn't connect to host" and really don't know what to do about...ideas anyone? thanks.. Feb 13 10:00:15 is it only me or FM TX transmits in Mono? Feb 13 10:00:32 cause the quality is close to inferior Feb 13 10:00:47 put it closer to your antenna or boost it Feb 13 10:08:13 crashanddie: Will do Feb 13 10:08:35 Comments welcome from anyone on http://mwkn.net/2010/06/download.html (since people want a "download this whole issue" feature) Feb 13 10:13:28 Hello, Is what some of you would compile nmap or tcpdump or iptraf or sniffit maemo for the N7000 please! Feb 13 10:13:38 Hello, Is what some of you would compile nmap or tcpdump or iptraf or sniffit maemo for the N70N700 Sorry00 please! Feb 13 10:14:18 ERROR: fails to parse Feb 13 10:19:08 have you build nmap or tcpdump for maemon on N770 please ? Feb 13 10:19:17 thresh: mono has nothing to do with quality Feb 13 10:20:24 not sure much people build anything for n770 nowadays so if it's not already in repositories you'll have to do it yourself Feb 13 10:22:12 Ok tanyou for this . gcc-arm nmap.c -o nmap ;-) Feb 13 10:23:12 mephiss: is python available on n770? Feb 13 10:23:18 mephiss: if it is, you might want to try scapy Feb 13 10:27:27 mephiss: did you search gronmayer? Feb 13 10:27:54 morning all! Feb 13 10:28:03 morning konttori :) Feb 13 10:28:42 hi konttori Feb 13 10:29:07 I wonder how many people are compiling the latest desktop and other applications framework components to try out before releases Feb 13 10:29:32 me, Matan and hrw updates some things Feb 13 10:29:56 I have been wondering if we should make a development repo that contains up-to-date debs of all open AF components while development is still ongoing. Feb 13 10:30:09 do you guys think that would be welcome or not? Feb 13 10:30:26 It didn't work with Sardine (primarily cos no one could trust it) Feb 13 10:30:29 would probably be welcome but the problem would be conflicts with SSU process Feb 13 10:32:02 there's more benefit to encouraging more people to move activities to gitorious as people can contribute as developers instead of end-user testing Feb 13 10:32:13 Yeah, it would completely push people away from the OS updates (well, at-get would probably still do the trick) Feb 13 10:32:25 and maybe release candidates for SDKs, but that's also problematic with release processes etc :P Feb 13 10:32:39 yeah. Feb 13 10:32:47 hey guys, which is the block device of the root partition on maemo5 ? Feb 13 10:33:31 but most of the components really are already in gitorious. But not much contributions form outside so far. Feb 13 10:33:57 hopefully that's changing a bit after my openness report came out, people said they missed that reference Feb 13 10:34:05 47% of all open source fremantle packages are on gitorious now :) Feb 13 10:34:13 (or garage or otherwise accessible) Feb 13 10:34:16 any community is 99 pct whiners and 1 pct developers Feb 13 10:35:09 konttori: the main problem is really that the areas small-time developers really want to improve things in, would be the applications and they're closed source Feb 13 10:35:09 konttori: Whilst plans and so on are closed (for open components) and there's no demonstrable way for patches to get into the hands of end-users, contributions will always be limited Feb 13 10:35:28 i think ubi0 b0unc3 Feb 13 10:35:33 Jaffa: i've had good success with getting merge requests accepted, 100% acceptance rate so far Feb 13 10:35:37 Stskeeps: yeah. I would also like to do tons of things to the apps, but ... Feb 13 10:35:56 konttori: (not saying they -should- be open source, just saying that's one of the problems :) Feb 13 10:36:11 but not the only problem with the apps ;) Feb 13 10:36:13 Stskeeps: Anything which would be user visible or all build-system/internals stuff? Feb 13 10:36:13 pupnik, mount: mounting /dev/ubi0 on /mnt/tmp/ failed: Block device required Feb 13 10:36:56 having said that, quite many apps are pretty stellar (like browser, IM messaging, phone) Feb 13 10:37:31 konttori: what could be interesting would be to attempt one of the apps as open source and see how the contribution process works now that things are on gitorious etc Feb 13 10:37:47 Stskeeps: konttori: For example, if there was a post to maemo-developers saying "This is the timetable for PR 1.2 development [not release]: March 12 Code freeze" then people would know that if they wanted to change hildon-desktop they should get their merge request in by then. Feb 13 10:37:48 and see if there's an actual benefit to having things open Feb 13 10:38:25 Jaffa: one example of user visible is colours fix for SDK, by javispedro Feb 13 10:38:38 Stskeeps: True Feb 13 10:38:40 I can tell you that. PR1.2 development is open for commits, code freeze was yesterday though ;) Feb 13 10:38:44 Stskeeps: But I'm talking features Feb 13 10:38:49 konttori: Heh Feb 13 10:39:01 konttori: So I was exactly one month out ;-) Feb 13 10:39:24 Stskeeps: e.g. a patch to make it wrap the grid ;-) Feb 13 10:39:40 anyway, it's still not definite code freeze, but gates start to close for almost all patches for pr1.2 now. Feb 13 10:39:56 Jaffa: general impression of that component (hildon-desktop, clutter, etc) is that they're open for patches, so it's just about trying Feb 13 10:39:57 we take about 2 weeks now to just work on solidifying the release. Feb 13 10:40:45 which reminds me that we have tiny problem of rootfs space and will be doing optification of internal contents. Any suggestions for potential optification targets? Feb 13 10:40:55 Stskeeps: Indeed, I'm sure they're open for patches - just like HAM was. But if Nokia never ship it, it's kinda disheartening. PR1.2's been a lot better for that than any other release to date Feb 13 10:41:02 qt4.6 really increases the space need. Feb 13 10:41:28 konttori: Locales, browser, Qt itself Feb 13 10:41:54 in my list are now 1. all easy graphical assets (icons, themes, videos, tutorial flash) Feb 13 10:42:09 yeah, locales is a good candidate as well, although it compresses well in ubifs Feb 13 10:42:17 konttori: /var/cache Feb 13 10:42:35 Jaffa: agreed, but it's about getting it in early enough :P Feb 13 10:42:36 hmm... yeah, potentially that. Feb 13 10:42:44 didnt lcuk have a list in maemo-optify-boottime or smth? Feb 13 10:42:59 yeah, that's a proof of concept thing Feb 13 10:43:09 proper thing is to do the optification in the packaging itself Feb 13 10:43:11 i guess those folders are good candidates anyway ;D Feb 13 10:43:14 Stskeeps: yeah, which is why I go back to saying when "early enough" will be; whether there's plans for a PR 1.3 etc. Feb 13 10:43:23 so that during ssu, the package is extracted to opt directly Feb 13 10:43:37 konttori: Aren't there issues with flasher then, though? Feb 13 10:43:47 no Feb 13 10:44:01 it is so nice to map fn+up to pageup Feb 13 10:44:04 konttori: any reason why you do the whole optification thing? why not just have the bigger thing mount binded or linked to /usr/local ? that should work ALOT better Feb 13 10:44:10 you can flash to rootfs folder called: /opt. then on first boot, that folder gets optification treatment Feb 13 10:44:19 konttori: Cunning Feb 13 10:44:23 redeeman: I/O on emmc isn't always that ogod Feb 13 10:44:38 Stskeeps: it would change nothing in that regard Feb 13 10:44:39 konttori: So there's still a maximum flash size, but it clears up the rootfs on first boot Feb 13 10:44:46 redeeman: most of system is in /usr :P Feb 13 10:45:04 yeah, definitely the things to optify need to be picked with care. This is also why I don't entirely believe in automatic optification scripts either Feb 13 10:45:14 redeeman: ...and then you're jsut into whether you call it /usr/local or /opt ;-) Feb 13 10:45:15 Stskeeps: well whether stuff is in /opt linked to /, or in /usr/local on emmc is irellevant, only with /usr/local its alot easier for everyone Feb 13 10:45:24 Jaffa: yeah - but we have quite a bit of free flash space still Feb 13 10:45:33 * Jaffa nods Feb 13 10:45:48 Jaffa: true, except /usr/local is kindof what people use everywhere else, and which then people typically have in paths etc, plus, on /opt they do application dirs, and not lib,bin etc Feb 13 10:45:56 i still wonder why noone has made the "Move entire system to eMMC" package Feb 13 10:46:34 that would require formatting it to linux fs Feb 13 10:46:42 or just repartitioning and resizing Feb 13 10:46:56 ...which isn't the hardest bit Feb 13 10:47:05 and mmc is slower Feb 13 10:47:06 jacekowski: emmc has ext3 partition Feb 13 10:47:21 Although none of it is particularly hard, it's just... meh Feb 13 10:47:46 i still think it should be reverse, emmc primary system, NAND for fast access Feb 13 10:47:52 mmc slowness is the biggest issue. but afaik, harmattan guys are really looking into having OS in emmc. But I don't follow that in too much detail, so I could be missing current status. Feb 13 10:47:54 so the problem is optimisation instead Feb 13 10:48:13 Yeah, m-vo's mentioned that plan for Harmattan Feb 13 10:48:29 Having swap on the NAND and the OS on eMMC seems a nice simple soluion Feb 13 10:48:37 I think they still have lot of issues to conquer there. Feb 13 10:48:54 but it's amazing how small these micro SD cards can be Feb 13 10:49:15 128 million transistors in something so small Feb 13 10:49:40 Jaffa: it could be, but then again, I would definitely keep a fast file partition on oneNAND still Feb 13 10:49:41 i thought all microsd cards where same size Feb 13 10:49:58 bob-E: physical size - yes Feb 13 10:50:05 but capacity is different Feb 13 10:50:07 konttori: is it true that the OMAP mmc controller operates at much slower rates than the MMC cards are rated for? Feb 13 10:50:07 redeeman, also, the File System Hierarchy standard specifies that /usr/local is to be structured like /usr and /opt for application directories Feb 13 10:50:11 konttori: Probably sensible, but the architect in me says "overcomplex, don't optimise prematurely" :-/ Feb 13 10:50:14 and you need at least one transistor per bit Feb 13 10:50:26 konttori: But that's not to say it might not be necessary Feb 13 10:50:33 i got 16gb microsd card over a year ago Feb 13 10:50:42 RST38h: i would recommend RTFM Feb 13 10:50:52 http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3530.pdf Feb 13 10:51:53 RST38h: to be hones, I don't know. I'll try to find out on monday. Feb 13 10:52:21 konttori: I remember that to be a problem with N8x0s, where TI suggested a certain "safe" clock rate Feb 13 10:52:25 I send a message to my work self to check it Feb 13 10:52:45 yeah and that clock rate could be overclocked on kernel. Feb 13 10:52:48 Jaffa: thanks Feb 13 10:53:12 I remember that, and with higher clock, speed was significantly better. But afaik that's not issue in n900 anymore Feb 13 10:53:12 according to manual Feb 13 10:53:22 omap can use up to 48MHz clock for mmc Feb 13 10:54:03 and MMC can work on up 20 Feb 13 10:54:07 and microsd up to 25 Feb 13 10:54:09 by the way, we introduced the NEON optimizations to libjpeg (both encoding and decoding) yesterday. It was nice seeing even thumbnailing perf increased 2x. Feb 13 10:54:12 and SD up to 50 Feb 13 10:54:33 RST38h: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3530.pdf - page 237 Feb 13 11:02:09 sometimes the microb select doesnt work :( it scrolls the page despite having a checked "select" arrow Feb 13 11:03:20 konttori: yesterday? thought that was an older patch Feb 13 11:03:51 well, we applied decoding earlier, but the encoding yesterday Feb 13 11:04:03 we had some issues with the integration until yesterday. Feb 13 11:06:06 ahh Feb 13 11:06:47 cool beans. i am suspecting apt-worker may run faster on sd vs tmp Feb 13 11:07:07 really? Feb 13 11:07:09 but i cant mess with system Feb 13 11:10:09 hey root Feb 13 11:25:57 how do i enable browser portrait mode again? Feb 13 11:26:07 ctrl-shift-o? Feb 13 11:26:52 does one get any feedback? Feb 13 11:27:11 that it has been activated? Feb 13 11:27:30 not that I remember, I still have to close the keyboard to get it into portrait mode Feb 13 11:27:59 oh totally forgot that Feb 13 11:30:26 ty Feb 13 11:30:52 pupnik: press ctrl-shift-o, close keyboard, rotate vertically Feb 13 11:30:56 and yes it is persistent Feb 13 11:31:31 it helps with some poorly designed sites Feb 13 11:32:33 helps everywhere: I hate holding device horizontally, especially when it is this heavy Feb 13 11:33:03 Google offers trying out Buzz. Accept? Feb 13 11:33:27 value your false sense of privacy? Feb 13 11:33:41 RST38h, sure, they claim to have fixed most of the privacy issues already Feb 13 11:34:16 Jaffa: mwkn hint, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44231 Feb 13 11:34:40 it doesnt really expose anything that wasnt already visible beyond a subset of your gmail contacts Feb 13 11:36:21 Jaffa: god dayum, I hadn't realised there were so many items per issue Feb 13 11:36:36 speaking of buzz, does anyone know of a way of getting to the mobile version from the N900? Google is convinced it's not a mobile :) Feb 13 11:37:19 pupnik: Also see bug #5324 Feb 13 11:37:21 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5324 Add an option to zoom+reflow fonts, rather than the page image Feb 13 11:37:32 I hate it when the mobile autodetections isn't optional Feb 13 11:37:44 pupnik: They will probably try to close it again for some made up cause Feb 13 11:37:58 pupnik: So, the more noise we can make there the better Feb 13 11:39:09 is that possible to do? Feb 13 11:39:28 marcoil: you can change the browsers user agent string i suppose Feb 13 11:39:31 there is a zoom + reflow keystroke Feb 13 11:39:38 I forget what it was though Feb 13 11:40:23 pixel-syntax: I suppose so, but I've only found an extension for completely removing it, not for changing it depending on the site Feb 13 11:40:23 ctrl shift I ? Feb 13 11:40:44 ptman: it's ok if there's also a direct url for it like with gmail and reader Feb 13 11:44:14 whats with the mass quittings with coyote messages? Feb 13 11:52:33 pupnik: Yea, ctrl-shift-i works, but you have to press it for every single freaking page Feb 13 11:52:40 pupnik: Nice but not quite practical Feb 13 11:52:55 pixel: Coyote have got them. Feb 13 11:53:03 has, sorry Feb 13 12:07:19 it does work? can you show a page that it works on? Feb 13 12:07:32 i get full page zoom on all i tried Feb 13 12:08:27 aah it works on google.com Feb 13 12:11:04 pupnik: it works everywhere. Feb 13 12:12:42 heh i love how media player video shows garbage through other apps Feb 13 12:12:54 when you background it Feb 13 12:14:39 only seems to shine through certain dark color values Feb 13 12:14:57 cant seem to be able to edit anything in about:config in firefox on the n900 Feb 13 12:15:09 is it not possible ? Feb 13 12:18:14 pupnik; that is called color keying Feb 13 12:19:02 but I have no idea how you manage to background it: the <- icon is the only one shown Feb 13 12:19:29 RST38h : any suggestions? Feb 13 12:20:12 Stskeeps: Are the drivers free software or a blob from the initfs? Feb 13 12:21:10 Jaffa: sadly not free software. kernel is open source, libraries closed Feb 13 12:21:22 current state of GLES2 support in ARM world, so Feb 13 12:21:46 it's one of those times where it's nice that we don't commit to 100% open platform on the HW side :P Feb 13 12:22:00 is there a NX client for n900? Feb 13 12:24:10 sorry got disconnected, Feb 13 12:24:16 so, is there a solution to this? Feb 13 12:24:32 as in, editing stuff in about:config. Feb 13 12:24:47 that is in the default browser and firefox mobile Feb 13 12:29:59 is it possible to setup prority for wifi connections? Feb 13 12:35:23 jacekowski, qtnx, but I haven't tried it Feb 13 12:39:14 qtnx is for only n8x0 irght? Feb 13 13:00:17 ok heres the problem Feb 13 13:00:51 getting dns leaks with firefox when using tsocks Feb 13 13:01:33 and adding user_pref("network.proxy.socks_remote_dns", true); to prefs.js didnt help Feb 13 13:02:03 thats a long with user_pref("network.proxy.socks", "127.0.0.1"); and user_pref("network.proxy.socks_port", 1080); Feb 13 13:02:16 along* Feb 13 13:02:53 so, has anyone solved this problem ? Feb 13 13:03:40 chiku, well, there is qtnx in fremantle's extras-devel Feb 13 13:04:16 however, intriqued by the question I installed nxserver on a host and tried qtnx on my ubuntu machine, and it doesn't work as easily as nxclient did :) Feb 13 13:09:30 flux, I don't see qtnx in extras-devel :( Feb 13 13:12:16 hm, apt-cache showpkg qtnx -> 0.9-3maemo1 (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status) Feb 13 13:26:11 any software to make N900 a DLNA server? Feb 13 13:27:51 flux, I see it with apt-cache but not with maemo sofware manager Feb 13 13:27:57 same for you? Feb 13 13:37:17 aww rygel is SO slow Feb 13 13:38:44 ...will grow several centimeters every hour, and form connectors to attach to electrical power sources (wall socket plugs, USB connectors, Etc.)... Feb 13 13:39:26 ...in vertebrate animals, will quickly penetrate the epidermis and other tissues, attaching to and enveloping the spine... Feb 13 13:55:34 RST38h: ctrl-backspace to switch to another app Feb 13 13:55:50 works playing downloaded flvs Feb 13 14:14:34 Jaffa: could I get ftp credentials to the site? Feb 13 14:14:39 Jaffa: or at least some git/svn? Feb 13 14:15:13 Jaffa: I need mod_rewrite activated on Apache, and at least PHP5 Feb 13 14:15:29 Jaffa: actually, PHP4 might work too, but 5 would be nice, haven't tested with 4 Feb 13 14:16:51 VDVsx: never noticed you had a council mask Feb 13 14:18:30 crashanddie, I'm the boss :D Feb 13 14:18:32 * VDVsx hides Feb 13 14:18:41 hehe... are you now? Feb 13 14:19:25 damn Feb 13 14:19:27 iFail Feb 13 14:19:37 VDVsx: /ban *@Maemo/community/council/*$##you_will_be_assimilated Feb 13 14:19:46 oh man someone near me is selling a working apple IIe :) Feb 13 14:20:29 crashanddie, ;) Feb 13 14:22:51 can someone confirm that the voting box doesn't appears here : http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/hoopsfrenzy/1.0.3/ Feb 13 14:23:22 VDVsx: no voting box here, confirmed Feb 13 14:23:35 VDVsx: Confirmed, no voting box. Feb 13 14:23:44 frals, zerojay thanks :) Feb 13 14:24:10 some bug, it seems Feb 13 14:24:18 assuming its because they app got 10 votes already Feb 13 14:24:40 s/they/the/ Feb 13 14:24:40 frals meant: assuming its because the app got 10 votes already Feb 13 14:24:54 frals, humm, no, unless someone mess up :D Feb 13 14:26:43 err, maybe its because its in extras? Feb 13 14:28:01 * crashanddie rapes zerojay Feb 13 14:28:24 erhm Feb 13 14:28:36 If you asked me why I just did that, I have no idea -- AT ALL. Feb 13 14:29:14 ...ow, man. Feb 13 14:29:27 Show some love, but not THAT kind of love. Feb 13 14:30:15 zerojay: hey, it's already 14th here Feb 13 14:33:36 * MohammadAG_ is having issues logging in on Skype Feb 13 14:33:51 hey, is there a way to only repeat one song in the built-in media player Feb 13 14:34:18 ?? Feb 13 14:34:42 yes, click repear icon Feb 13 14:34:43 Pillum, starting it using the filemanager works here Feb 13 14:34:53 repeat Feb 13 14:34:54 crashanddie: lol... I didn't know you Europeans had a "rape time", just like the Brits have tea time. Feb 13 14:35:08 pupnik, that repeats the whole list Feb 13 14:35:20 select one song Feb 13 14:35:22 pupnik: repeat the entire album Feb 13 14:35:30 repeats* Feb 13 14:35:39 how? Feb 13 14:36:01 Pillum, file manager Feb 13 14:36:13 anyone using syncevolution here? Feb 13 14:36:43 with the file manager i have to browse through my large music collection which has nearly 2000 folders Feb 13 14:36:51 heya all Feb 13 14:36:55 is there not another way? Feb 13 14:36:56 moo wazd Feb 13 14:40:39 is there already a bug filed about the repeat one option? Feb 13 14:42:29 Pillum: create a playlist of the song (lol!!) Feb 13 14:43:15 a playlist for every song i have? :D Feb 13 14:44:13 i think that this is one of the basic functions a media player should have Feb 13 14:44:33 even more important than a equalizer :) Feb 13 14:49:38 Pillum, same here, file a bug if you want Feb 13 14:49:45 search if there's an existing one Feb 13 14:50:48 searched and found nothing Feb 13 14:51:18 am waiting for bugzilla to create a account for me... Feb 13 14:51:28 should be immediate Feb 13 14:52:41 dont seem so for me Feb 13 14:52:49 wainting already an hour Feb 13 14:59:13 konttori: check out bug #5324 Feb 13 14:59:14 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5324 Add an option to zoom+reflow fonts, rather than the page image Feb 13 15:00:16 konttori: Has been closed before (there is a secret shortcut after all) but recently reopened. AFAIK, just making the setting persistent (like portrait mode) should do the job for most people, although a checkbox in the prefs would of course be nicer :) Feb 13 15:01:38 * MohammadAG thinks if Tunewiki cached lyrics it would be epic Feb 13 15:03:19 * DocScrutinizer thinks basic editing functions for the current playlist are even moe important Feb 13 15:05:24 * MohammadAG never used playlists Feb 13 15:05:34 + has* Feb 13 15:05:49 the *current* playlist is the list of songs to play Feb 13 15:06:26 if you never used it, you never played a song in mediaplayer Feb 13 15:06:36 lol just found that out Feb 13 15:06:57 cleared the playlist and it stopped the song Feb 13 15:07:18 the media player does need some enhancements though, I agree with that Feb 13 15:07:30 I hate how it blocks other app sounds Feb 13 15:07:55 e.g pause a song, play a y(/z)outube video, it won't play the sound Feb 13 15:08:18 in the N900 faq it says you can't assign a rigntone per contact. Is this feature available yet? Feb 13 15:08:35 not yet Feb 13 15:08:48 doesn't profiler allow that? Feb 13 15:08:50 ok. Not very important, I just wanted to know. Feb 13 15:08:52 profiler? Feb 13 15:09:01 maybe some cute app (if someone was faster than me) Feb 13 15:09:05 app (if i got the name right) Feb 13 15:09:29 tweakr adds support for multiple profiles, mut not rigntones per contact I believe Feb 13 15:09:46 tweakr doesn't Feb 13 15:10:18 what I would really like is to hear the phone say the caller id out loud Feb 13 15:10:28 instead of different rigntones Feb 13 15:10:51 what's profiled Feb 13 15:10:59 oh nvm Feb 13 15:11:37 it always said them in a weird way on symbian lol Feb 13 15:11:44 you'd need an app that listens to dbus for the inbound number, accesses the addressbook for the corresponding contact, extract a special field (note?) like 'X-RINGTONE: foo.wav" and switch the ringtone to play Feb 13 15:13:07 Jaffa: ping Feb 13 15:15:09 the note field value should be parsed, to allow multiple entries like 'X-keyA: foo; X-keyB: bar; X-RINGTONE: chime.wav' Feb 13 15:15:34 kinda miss the sms lock feature on s60 9.2 and above Feb 13 15:20:17 Jaffa: Do we want to keep the 2010/06/front.html format? Feb 13 15:21:19 s/app/deamon of course Feb 13 15:23:36 hey all! Feb 13 15:25:29 "X-RINGTONE: $friends" could mean: use the ringtone defined in another contact firstname friends, lastname $GROUP$ Feb 13 15:26:52 anyone know how i could possibly detect the N900's current phone number from within python? Feb 13 15:27:18 or even which lib to look at? Feb 13 15:27:56 dbus-listen Feb 13 15:29:19 use dbus-monitor to check all the signals during inbound call, >list-signals. Then grep list-signals for the phonenumber. Then you know which signal to wait for in your python app to gather the number Feb 13 15:29:24 cool, thanks DocScrutinizer Feb 13 15:29:56 I did that, it works Feb 13 15:32:10 BirdFlew: err sorry. on reading again I'm not sure you meant the number of an inbound call. Feb 13 15:33:19 BirdFlew: if you want to get the number of your own sim, you probably can use soem AT command via pnatd Feb 13 15:34:41 yeah i'm after the sim number Feb 13 15:34:55 AIUI AT commands are not reliable Feb 13 15:35:01 the SIM may not know its number Feb 13 15:35:37 yup Feb 13 15:35:52 but then you lost Feb 13 15:36:50 as the ultimate instance to know your IMSI<->number assotiation Feb 13 15:36:53 z Feb 13 15:37:19 is the computer at the carrier's exchange (simplified) Feb 13 15:40:04 some carriers may offer a USSD (*#987#) to echo some text containing your number Feb 13 15:40:58 or send an SMS with e.g. 'INFO' to a special number, so you get a reply with the needed info about your number Feb 13 15:41:57 any guesses on pr1.2 release date? Feb 13 15:42:11 i figure maybe 4 weeks testing Feb 13 15:43:07 then yaay ussd Feb 13 15:43:21 What new features will be available in pr1.2 ? Feb 13 15:43:30 USSD-PAD rocks Feb 13 15:43:40 Ken: lasers. Feb 13 15:43:59 Ken: hypodermic needle will finally be avaiable to application developers via API Feb 13 15:44:29 well not exactly rocks, but it's a workaround Feb 13 15:45:19 Ken: the codes to invoke the Tentacled One from the dialpad will finally work in PR1.2 Feb 13 15:46:10 Ken-Young, kitchen sink :) Feb 13 15:47:35 i asked for a ballroom couch, i hope the armchair will do anyway Feb 13 15:49:21 If anyone has an N900 at hand. Could you check if there's supposed to be a directory called /media/Remote_Filesystems ? Feb 13 15:50:33 MiXu-, I do not see that directory on my N900. Feb 13 15:50:38 i only have mmc1 Feb 13 15:50:49 Me too Feb 13 15:50:52 same Feb 13 15:50:59 oh, the bada babada OS is about to be released :) Feb 13 15:51:00 Ok, thanks Feb 13 15:51:28 VDVsx: whatmis that? Feb 13 15:51:42 pupnik, samsung's new OS Feb 13 15:51:55 terrible name Feb 13 15:51:56 pupnik, http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/13/samsung-s8500-wave-caught-in-a-spigot-of-leaks/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fengadgetmobile+(Engadget+Mobile) Feb 13 15:52:01 I managed to completely fuck up the whole thing... Tracker doesn't work. App Manager doesn't work. Even sudo gainroot doesn't work. Feb 13 15:52:01 it's only Bada Feb 13 15:52:13 but people keep making jokes with the name ;) Feb 13 15:53:11 forget bada! Feb 13 15:53:30 Only mmc1 here too MiXu- Feb 13 15:53:40 has anybody got the script in this page https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2521 to work? I compiled it but i get a "Failed to initialize libosso" Feb 13 15:53:41 Bug 2521: FM won't open files with known mime type unless the mime type has glob Feb 13 15:53:48 nice pics VDVsx Feb 13 15:55:18 DocScrutinizer, there're rumors that sumsung is working in another linux OS beyond bada :) Feb 13 15:55:30 something EFL based :D Feb 13 15:55:34 famous rasterman (who by incidence is probably working for samsung to develop a linux based free OS, at least rumor has that) called bada "a hickup" Feb 13 15:56:40 same source here , eheh Feb 13 16:03:01 <|R> anyone got his microSD in read-only mode for no reasons?! Feb 13 16:03:33 would be rather silly, eh :-P Feb 13 16:03:47 usually there *is* a reason Feb 13 16:03:53 <|R> hehe :) Feb 13 16:03:56 iridian: some SD cards go into readonly when they have errors and no spare blocks to replace Feb 13 16:03:56 It's probably a bit corrupted Feb 13 16:04:15 <|R> i unmounted it and did an fsck Feb 13 16:04:20 <|R> but... nothing changed :/ Feb 13 16:04:20 or other reasons .. do micro sd have a readonly switch? Feb 13 16:04:29 that's strange Feb 13 16:04:29 no Feb 13 16:04:30 <|R> nah too small Feb 13 16:04:34 is it the card or just the filesystem? Feb 13 16:05:16 obviously the fs Feb 13 16:05:23 * cehteh resist to pull his out .. the device is running :P Feb 13 16:05:25 otherwise fsck would fail Feb 13 16:05:30 <|R> yes, i can only scan p1 not the block device Feb 13 16:05:42 Does mount -a work for you or does it complain something about the rootfs? Feb 13 16:06:16 <|R> let me finish the fsck... :) Feb 13 16:06:28 aah, your MBR might be corrupted Feb 13 16:07:04 <|R> urhm Feb 13 16:10:41 Does catorize put Bounce under the games category for you guys? Feb 13 16:15:15 MohammadAG: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9043 Feb 13 16:15:16 Bug 9043: media player has no 'repeat one track' Feb 13 16:39:38 pupnik: credit? Feb 13 16:41:27 ShadowJK: shan't is valid English, however i wouldn't use it, i consider it archaic Feb 13 16:43:57 ah Feb 13 16:45:11 Hello Com,can I use a WPA2 connection with the last version? Feb 13 16:45:22 with a Nokia 770 Feb 13 16:46:16 ShadowJK: Thou oughtst not listen to the knave who tells you to shun the olde English tongue Feb 13 16:46:43 * RST38h wonders if "oughtst" is the correct form here, as it looks bogus Feb 13 16:46:44 timeless_mbp: are you the timeless on moznet? Feb 13 16:46:54 atleast you didnt say "ye" Feb 13 16:47:15 have no answer for me ? *G* Feb 13 16:47:38 ShadowJK: I would if I were sure on the exact terms of use Feb 13 16:48:20 N3misis: I don't really know, but OS2008 on N800 and N810 supports WAP Feb 13 16:49:04 shouldn't that be ought'st? Feb 13 16:49:08 wormsxulla: sure and timeless_mbp Feb 13 16:50:02 timeless*: ack! Feb 13 16:50:05 the 770 from Nokia have normal WEP and WPA with Home Firmware Feb 13 16:50:06 RST38h: afaik they just used y in print because gutenberg was german and didn't make his printing press able to print thorn Feb 13 16:50:09 and then at some point they started using th Feb 13 16:50:12 but that's just what I heard Feb 13 16:50:22 ShadowJK: Naah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou Feb 13 16:50:56 I thought the WPA2 with the last version would be evenuell possible Feb 13 16:50:57 timeless_mbp: credit what? Feb 13 16:51:22 ShadowJK: looks like there initially was the same intimate/polite distinction as in Russian (i.e. thou/ye vs TbI/BbI) Feb 13 16:52:09 ShadowJK: Then the polite form pushed the intimate out (which I already knew) but the more interesting part is that nominative "ye" got replaced by objective "you" Feb 13 16:52:23 There are a lot of useful tenses that got lost. Feb 13 16:53:03 if you go back long enough I start understanding more of the english than you atives ;) Feb 13 16:53:15 01:33 timeless_mbp: where do i get credit for demanding that browser pauses javascript? Feb 13 16:53:27 It could be worse. Japanese don't even have a future tense. Feb 13 16:53:33 ShadowJK: That is a known fenomenon Feb 13 16:53:58 with what for does network a connection use it Nokia 770? Feb 13 16:54:11 ShadowJK: I have done pretty well in medieval English literature class once, knowing way less English than my classmates :) Feb 13 16:54:22 heh timeless_mbp i was beggimg fot that for a while Feb 13 16:54:41 derf: So how do they work around that? Feb 13 16:54:55 wasnt the bug "mediaplayer switches to next station in playlist on connection interrupt" supposed to be closed in 1.1? Feb 13 16:54:56 pupnik_: you're using 51-1, right? Feb 13 16:54:56 N3misis, im not sure (i never had a 770) which os have you put in it? Feb 13 16:55:00 derf: that's because in japan, it's already the future. Feb 13 16:55:14 yes Feb 13 16:55:59 is anyone doing anything cool with their other halves tonight/tomorrow, or just being lazy? Feb 13 16:56:39 * SpeedEvil is taking his n900 out for a candlelit supper. Feb 13 16:56:48 :) Feb 13 16:57:04 * wormsxulla is going for a zombie movie Feb 13 16:57:06 maybe they can say "As for the future, read the manual not if, you in the face stab" Feb 13 16:57:55 how does the n900 behave in the cold/hot temperatures? Feb 13 16:58:00 (battery-wise) Feb 13 16:58:43 wormsxulla: we don't have much in the way of hot weather here in HEL Feb 13 16:58:51 but we use it outside :) Feb 13 16:59:06 it gets hot in the offices Feb 13 16:59:09 some say it has resistive screen because of the finland temperatures Feb 13 16:59:16 with -15°C or such? Feb 13 16:59:22 hell! Feb 13 16:59:23 SpeedEvil, lol Feb 13 16:59:35 what about your real wetware partner, not the silicon one Feb 13 16:59:53 hm Feb 13 16:59:53 I had it out of my pocket for about 15-20 minutes in -20C to video new year's fireworks Feb 13 16:59:57 didnt notice anything cold related.. Feb 13 16:59:59 lcuk: maybe she's got a n900 too! Feb 13 17:00:10 indeed Feb 13 17:00:14 lcuk: silicon, silicone .. who cares :) Feb 13 17:00:18 you'll get better pictures when its cold at least ;) Feb 13 17:00:27 ladies like the n900, tracy nabbed my work one and didnt give it back unless i promised to get her one Feb 13 17:00:38 ShadowJK: in my experience, batteries tend to drain when the weather is cold, i was curious Feb 13 17:00:58 wormsxulla: they dont drain, but they just cant provide the power Feb 13 17:01:03 cehteh, you do not get 600mhz silicone implants Feb 13 17:01:18 bringing them back into the warm or put it in the pocket and all is ok Feb 13 17:01:24 cehteh: yeah, or that :) which is annoying Feb 13 17:01:27 lcuk: You do not? Feb 13 17:01:31 wormsxulla, its not that they drain is it, its that the capacity lowers Feb 13 17:01:41 heat is more bad for batteries than cold (well except extremes in any direction) Feb 13 17:01:53 really? Feb 13 17:02:10 heat really ages/detoriates batteries Feb 13 17:02:18 yep bateryes like the middle temps Feb 13 17:02:20 Hmm... Google Buzz is kinda annoying Feb 13 17:02:21 RST38h, last time i tried resting my head on some multi mhz silicone pillows my head didnt stop shaking for months Feb 13 17:02:22 wormsxulla: they don't drain per se, they're just not able to provide as much power (and remember power is not equal to energy) at as high voltage, so during high load the battery voltage will drop more than when warm, and the battery meter might think the battery is empty and even shut down the device Feb 13 17:02:27 Why does it send me all the stuff as emails? Feb 13 17:02:30 cold preserves them (unless the electolyte freezes and damages them) Feb 13 17:02:48 lcuk: resonanse! Feb 13 17:02:49 have noooooooo Member a Info to WPA2 for me????? *G* amazing *G* Feb 13 17:02:49 but they cant provide much power at cold Feb 13 17:02:49 wormsxulla, to visually see the sort of effect Feb 13 17:02:52 get a glowstick Feb 13 17:03:00 heat permanently degrades batteries, cold temporarily makes them tired :) Feb 13 17:03:08 put one in freezer, put one in kettle Feb 13 17:03:18 see which one drains faster Feb 13 17:03:31 same sort of effect occurs with pretty much all chemicals Feb 13 17:03:39 lcuk: glowsticks are so out of the fashion these days :) but i understand, thanks for the experiment :) Feb 13 17:04:04 leave one at room temp with wifi and bluoth turned Feb 13 17:04:05 even humans ;) Feb 13 17:04:12 so actually, you need to live in a moderate weather country :) Feb 13 17:04:22 better puncture both batteries and RUN Feb 13 17:04:27 or stay indoors Feb 13 17:04:39 or carry it close to your heart and keep it always running Feb 13 17:04:43 (be mobile indoors!) Feb 13 17:04:54 biobatteries! Feb 13 17:05:01 BLOOD! Feb 13 17:05:06 in practice my jeans pocket maintains a wamr enough temperature Feb 13 17:05:06 BRAINNNNNNNNNNNNNNS Feb 13 17:05:09 do you guys give names to your devices? :) Feb 13 17:05:30 spare head 1, spare head 2 Feb 13 17:05:36 ahahah Feb 13 17:06:01 my 900s just have simple names Feb 13 17:06:03 lol Feb 13 17:07:17 lcuk is the only one who needs to :) Feb 13 17:07:26 I only have one Feb 13 17:07:27 :O Feb 13 17:07:29 Jaffa: generated from database: http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2092/screenshotmaemoweeklyne.png Feb 13 17:07:43 anyway, 3AM, I'm off to bed Feb 13 17:07:46 Arif: he probably wanted to have stereo ;p Feb 13 17:07:52 pupnik, heh have you still got the photo of liqflow? Feb 13 17:07:57 or did you find the video Feb 13 17:08:00 but it already has two speakers! Feb 13 17:08:08 which suck, btw Feb 13 17:08:12 * lcuk has 6 speakers Feb 13 17:08:29 can you increase the built in media player or KMPlayer's volume in any way Feb 13 17:08:39 it's not very usable for video/speech Feb 13 17:08:41 yeah, theres a volume control Feb 13 17:09:00 * crashanddie has 12 speakers Feb 13 17:09:01 Arif: with any mplayer clone its easy Feb 13 17:09:05 slide it to 11 Feb 13 17:09:06 in his hotel room Feb 13 17:09:13 crashanddie, i think we were talking about n900s Feb 13 17:09:20 torindel, how? Feb 13 17:09:32 Arif: -softvol -softvol-max 10000 Feb 13 17:09:37 lcuk: as I was saying... :) Feb 13 17:09:51 hmm Feb 13 17:09:58 how do I enter that in KMPlayer's GUI :P Feb 13 17:10:06 dunno? Feb 13 17:10:11 OS2008 is the name of the n810 OS? i thought that ran maemo 4? Feb 13 17:10:13 I'm out, later Feb 13 17:10:16 * Arif pokes the forum Feb 13 17:10:18 * wormsxulla gets a headache Feb 13 17:10:23 crashanddie: bonne nuit Feb 13 17:10:47 oo Feb 13 17:10:49 found it Feb 13 17:10:59 gnite crashanddie Feb 13 17:11:03 i notice with alsamixer we can apparently change or disable the speaker protection Feb 13 17:11:30 seems like osso_notes opens every file which is not in MyDocs as read-only? Feb 13 17:12:32 Arif: also note that -softvol-max is in % ;p Feb 13 17:12:43 hmm Feb 13 17:12:47 maybe I should try something lower Feb 13 17:12:50 like 400 Feb 13 17:12:50 :P Feb 13 17:12:52 xD Feb 13 17:13:09 pupnik, liqflow photo/video? Feb 13 17:13:14 heh Feb 13 17:13:19 look at mplayer's config: Feb 13 17:13:19 # Write your default config options here! Feb 13 17:13:21 I need to do fsck for N900 in bootup. Is it safe to just edit fstab and change the fsckorder value? Feb 13 17:13:53 mixu-, fsck for which filesystem? Feb 13 17:14:32 mixu-, because if you want to run it for the rootfs, there is no fsck for ubifs. for other filesystems, no idea ;) Feb 13 17:14:35 is there a same tweak for the built in player ? Feb 13 17:14:36 :D Feb 13 17:15:04 flux: For /home partition. That's ext3 Feb 13 17:15:19 Arif: afair kmplayer was just gui, so you could specify default options to mplayer backend Feb 13 17:15:35 no, I mean the N900's built in player Feb 13 17:15:45 I find KMplayer hard to use Feb 13 17:15:52 mixu-, I would consider instead of doing that, stopping all processes that use the /home partition and given that that doesn't work, do the best you can and remount it read-only Feb 13 17:15:52 as I haven't found any shuffle in it :P Feb 13 17:16:12 mixu-, if that works, you could run fsck.ext3 on it.. Feb 13 17:16:21 Arif: -shuffle ;p Feb 13 17:16:32 * Arif hits torindel with a gui Feb 13 17:16:35 flux: Is there a way to see which processes use /home? Feb 13 17:16:38 * torindel evades Feb 13 17:16:41 ;< Feb 13 17:16:50 mixu-, in any case /etc/fstab is generated by a script (I don't remember which script, I suppose you can find it from /etc/init.d etc) Feb 13 17:16:51 * Arif throws his N900 at torindel Feb 13 17:16:54 mixu-, lsof Feb 13 17:16:59 * torindel catches and runs! Feb 13 17:17:03 mixu-, or fuser -mv Feb 13 17:17:05 crashanddie, Jaffa: BTW, how does it look on the tablet? =) Feb 13 17:17:17 ah, never mind, busybox fuser doesn't support -v Feb 13 17:17:22 RST38h: never tried it Feb 13 17:17:34 crashanddie: Feb 13 17:17:37 Ok, I'll try that. Thanks. Feb 13 17:17:38 actually busybox fuser doesn't seem very useful at all, use lsof Feb 13 17:18:08 RST38h: I'm not a graphics dev. Or in other words: "Not my problem" Feb 13 17:18:14 mixu-, of course, have your backups handy as always ;) Feb 13 17:18:28 btw, has anyone used backuppc for backing up n900? Feb 13 17:18:38 * timeless_mbp looks for someone w/ an n900 and a few minutes Feb 13 17:18:51 * Arif whistles Feb 13 17:19:51 ONly times I booted Windows last year was because of software support for my phone, Will the N900 be well supported by Ubuntu? Feb 13 17:20:06 Aijse: future tense? Feb 13 17:20:07 You won't need windows with n900 Feb 13 17:20:14 when? in a year, two years, or ten years? Feb 13 17:20:25 2 months Feb 13 17:20:27 :P Feb 13 17:20:48 you can use it w/ usb mass storage Feb 13 17:20:52 nokia map loader only works on Windows :P Feb 13 17:21:10 but nokia map caches can be downloaded and inserted on linux Feb 13 17:21:12 Don't need it, Feb 13 17:21:12 Map loader doesn't work with N900 afaik Feb 13 17:21:13 and you can use it for networking Feb 13 17:21:16 timeless_mbp: you mean as in plugin in usb key in it? nope Feb 13 17:21:33 torindel: i mean plugging the n900 into a computer Feb 13 17:21:38 timeless_mbp: yes Feb 13 17:21:40 http://handphone-solution.blogspot.com/2009/07/direct-download-for-ovi-maps-30-without.html Feb 13 17:21:41 (running Ubuntu) Feb 13 17:22:28 If I need to update the oss on the N900 foe example Feb 13 17:23:17 do I need windows or can it be done with ubuntu and usb connection? Feb 13 17:23:28 you can use the n900 to update the os Feb 13 17:23:35 you use WLAN or 3G Feb 13 17:23:50 depends Feb 13 17:23:50 I mean, some people don't ever use their PCs at all with their phone.. Feb 13 17:23:50 I thought map loader didn't work at all.. :P Feb 13 17:23:50 oss? Feb 13 17:23:50 the N900 updates itself. there's also a flashing utility for linux Feb 13 17:24:00 timeless_mbp, Incase of more serious fuck ups of the system that might not work Feb 13 17:24:27 AhadowJK, ye thanks ... flashing utility was what I was looking for Feb 13 17:24:42 I think flasher-3.5 works better than NSU.. Feb 13 17:25:13 wasnt there a time when you *had* to use linux to reflash? Feb 13 17:25:14 nsu kinda bricked my phone Feb 13 17:25:23 ie the windows one is the new kid on the block Feb 13 17:25:28 Aijse: the flasher that Nokia employees use to develop the platform runs on linux, it happens to be ported to o and windows, but its native environment is linux. happy? Feb 13 17:25:50 Sounds good! Feb 13 17:25:52 wb VDVsx Feb 13 17:26:10 please note that it isn't an _update_, it's a WIPE. you lose everything :) Feb 13 17:26:30 (it isn't any safer from windows, in case you're curious) Feb 13 17:26:39 timeless_mbp, ye but its exactly what you need form time to time when you experiment arround Feb 13 17:26:51 or you could be less adventurous Feb 13 17:27:05 I tried that before Feb 13 17:27:11 didnt work Feb 13 17:27:19 by the way, don't experiment with low battery Feb 13 17:28:13 * RST38h moos at VDVsx Feb 13 17:28:33 because if you mess up the n900 so it doesn't boot, it doesn@t charge battery, and you can't flash with low battery Feb 13 17:29:15 should have done all the charging stuff in one of the asics :| Feb 13 17:29:28 i use the universal charger almost every day for all my devices Feb 13 17:29:53 ShadowJK: according to the l3/l4 manual - that seems to be false. Feb 13 17:29:58 (charging battery) Feb 13 17:31:08 well it might charge at low rate, but if it's trying to boot to dispalay charging, it ends up consuming more power than ot charges without the full current negotiation.. Feb 13 17:31:51 hmm Feb 13 17:32:06 It will at least minimally charge the battery - with no software Feb 13 17:32:06 that sounds tricky Feb 13 17:32:21 but I'm unsure what happens when it gets to the 'boot now' threshold Feb 13 17:32:24 need a friend with same battery :P Feb 13 17:32:38 Do you own a car, and a set of jump leads? Feb 13 17:32:43 (not really) Feb 13 17:32:45 ha Feb 13 17:32:58 I assume you don't have a variable lab PSU? Feb 13 17:33:28 can always take it to university Feb 13 17:33:58 Needs precise voltage setting, and current limiter Feb 13 17:34:02 That's the right way. ~500mA - current limited - to 4.20V Feb 13 17:34:47 500mA isn't enough for everything Feb 13 17:35:04 moar poar! Feb 13 17:35:41 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Universal-USB-battery-charger-for-phones-pda-etc_W0QQitemZ220553580544QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM?hash=item335a049000 Feb 13 17:35:44 is the wrong way Feb 13 17:35:45 Voltage to 4.2, Current limit: if battery voltage is over 3.2, use 500mA. If lower than 3.2, use 100mA until 3.2V is reached, and keep fire extinguisher ready. Once voltage has risen to 4.2V and current has dropped to 100mA, charge is done Feb 13 17:35:49 MiXu-: it's enough if it's not htere Feb 13 17:36:00 MiXu-: if the phone is not connected Feb 13 17:36:21 Though the above works pretty much OK Feb 13 17:36:51 Ah, sorry I didn't read the entire conversation Feb 13 17:37:07 I thought you were talking about phone power consumption Feb 13 17:38:39 * N900evil wonders what to do now angrybirds is ***'d out. Feb 13 17:39:21 Wow. The N900 can be used as a PS3 controller. A PS3 controller can be used with the N900. Feb 13 17:39:32 Next step: using the N900 as a controller for another N900... Feb 13 17:39:37 :D Feb 13 17:39:50 aethaeryn, it's not that crazy idea Feb 13 17:39:55 aethaeryn, multiplayer games on tv :) Feb 13 17:40:02 Hmm. :) Feb 13 17:40:04 Yeah... Feb 13 17:40:16 Super Mario Kart... hypothetically speaking. Feb 13 17:41:04 * ShadowJK has managed to go from 100 to 35 percent battery in 70 minutes Feb 13 17:41:26 N 900 as full mulimedia remote... like a harmony from logitech .. with display offcourse Feb 13 17:41:44 How about this? N900 "lan party"... Three people bring a N900, one is hooked up to an HD TV (does the N900 have a connector?) and that's used as a "host" for the game... And then the other two N900s are used to control the TV Feb 13 17:42:16 N 900 has compsite out ... no hd Feb 13 17:42:23 Bah. Feb 13 17:42:31 N920 needs HDMI Feb 13 17:43:07 aethaeryn, wireless hdmi! Feb 13 17:43:21 Wirless USB 3.0! Feb 13 17:43:23 yeah and some LSD then all would be just perfect Feb 13 17:43:26 :) Feb 13 17:44:03 N900evil, make moar levels Feb 13 17:44:07 I wouldn't be sure it'll be N920. Nokia is moving to thos C, N, X, E, S series naming and I think the product names will only have one number Feb 13 17:44:18 wireless: the modern equivalent of two tincans with a piece of string Feb 13 17:44:32 MiXu: Will that number be hexadecimal then? Feb 13 17:44:36 Except there is no string! Feb 13 17:44:44 RST38h: Doubt it =) Feb 13 17:44:46 Wireless tincans. Feb 13 17:44:52 http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/theming-for-dummies/ Feb 13 17:45:03 mixu-, n920 has only one number.. :-) Feb 13 17:45:10 wazd++ Feb 13 17:45:28 MiXu-: But what about the rumored N1337? Feb 13 17:45:30 :( Feb 13 17:45:38 who will get the new maemo phone if it doesnt have qwerty keayboard(physical) ? Feb 13 17:45:39 Ahem... 1 Digit... Feb 13 17:45:49 not me Feb 13 17:45:53 me neither Feb 13 17:45:56 same here Feb 13 17:46:14 I'd rather buy iPhone :D Feb 13 17:46:29 my one reason to get n900 was the keyboard (changed from iphone) Feb 13 17:46:41 and ofcourse the OS is nice :-)) to play around Feb 13 17:46:58 all the keys you need are "1", "0" and "enter" :) Feb 13 17:46:58 wazd: i wouldn't mind that "for dummies" book on my bookshelf :) Feb 13 17:47:00 i wont get it unless its a significant performance upgrade Feb 13 17:47:00 it's* Feb 13 17:47:01 And the fact that the iPhone is getting a snob image by now Feb 13 17:47:27 I thought it always had a snob/fag image ;) Feb 13 17:47:36 Stskeeps: :D Feb 13 17:48:11 hm Feb 13 17:48:27 Aijse: But there's an app for that! There's just so many options in web browsers and music players in its app store... And that multitasking is brilliant... Not to mention all the syncing apps on the computer-side you can choose from. Feb 13 17:48:35 portrait mode.. wouldn't it make more sense to have the speaker/webcam/als/led down, so that the antenna is up? Feb 13 17:48:45 the way it's now, you cover the antenna when holding it Feb 13 17:49:04 And their teathering apps are... wait... Feb 13 17:49:18 Aethaeryn, they made a reduce snob factor app? :P Feb 13 17:49:21 ShadowJK: It'll warm your hand nicely Feb 13 17:49:21 nice! Feb 13 17:49:41 wazd: you should refer to that guide on Design section of TMO too Feb 13 17:49:49 ah, you did Feb 13 17:49:53 Aijse: You got to admit, they have an ingeneous multitasking method of "Our stuff can multitask and your stuff can't." Feb 13 17:49:57 Stskeeps: :P Feb 13 17:49:59 I think my N900 is like 40C now Feb 13 17:50:10 At least I wouldn't have to spend time fixing the iPhone after I broke it by installing some half-assed application from extras-devel. Feb 13 17:50:19 I could think of better ways to spend a saturday night ;) Feb 13 17:50:23 I think it went over her head when my sister complained that she couldn't listen to Pandora and browse at the same time and I made a remark about "multitasking" Feb 13 17:50:29 battery voltage at 3502 after 76 minutes from full, I'm surprised it hasn't bleeped empty at me yet Feb 13 17:50:38 ha Feb 13 17:51:08 MiXu-, but you could spend time fixing iphone after installing something half arsed from one of the jailbreak sites Feb 13 17:51:11 My room m8 has am iPhone, she never knew she could d-load any apps Feb 13 17:51:16 ShadowJK: Hmm. True. Feb 13 17:51:24 she just knew she could pollish it Feb 13 17:51:41 good feature though Feb 13 17:51:47 Stskeeps: I think I should stick this thread Feb 13 17:51:50 So I think the problem here is that I'm a nerd and have the tendency to fix things until they are broken. Feb 13 17:51:51 I mean, if you don't want to risk damaging the N900 then you should stick to extras Feb 13 17:52:05 I thought there was warnings about extras-devel and extras-testing :) Feb 13 17:52:09 ShadowJK: Yep. Lesson learnt :D Feb 13 17:52:09 damaging? Feb 13 17:52:23 wazd: yeah Feb 13 17:52:25 software Feb 13 17:52:43 Don't take me wrong. I love all the hacking and stuff. I just need the phone to work whenever I leave the house. Feb 13 17:52:52 Solution: 2 phones. Feb 13 17:53:04 MiXu-, but 2 isnt enough either Feb 13 17:53:10 i like your thinking btw Feb 13 17:53:17 If you need it to work, don't hack it... Feb 13 17:53:19 * lcuk does exactly that Feb 13 17:53:25 Just because you can doesn't mean you have to Feb 13 17:53:56 I have a symbian device for calling if shit really hits the fan. It's hack proof. I just don't _want_ to do anything with it. Feb 13 17:57:24 it's more or less like a car, you can take apart every piece of it, change the engine or the wheels or whatever you want, but if you don't know what you're doing, you can't complain that it doesn't work any more Feb 13 17:58:40 simoneb_, i dont know how to fix my car either, but theres people around who do Feb 13 17:59:09 do these people have irc? Feb 13 18:00:04 vanadismobile, for car people, theres a neighbour up the street who owns a garage and is always helpful :) Feb 13 18:00:18 irc_IRL Feb 13 18:00:59 * lcuk finishes writing the thing he started earlier Feb 13 18:01:23 i know of a lot of people who fix home windows computers for a living, but none who fix home linux computers... Feb 13 18:01:40 * vanadismobile tries to stop finishing lcuk Feb 13 18:01:59 simoneb_, sometimes you have to look harder, and offering money is a good thing Feb 13 18:02:11 lolwut, wat am i writing... Feb 13 18:02:21 * lcuk slaps u Feb 13 18:03:10 is there such a thing as a home linux computer? =) Feb 13 18:03:31 yeah RST38h Feb 13 18:03:44 many of the first eees at very least were linux werent they Feb 13 18:03:48 from the shops etc Feb 13 18:03:58 lcuk: ok, make that "i know of a lot of people who can fix windows computers for free, but none etc.etc." Feb 13 18:04:17 well my home computer has ubuntu Feb 13 18:04:28 as do all my laptops Feb 13 18:04:43 i keep threating luke with linux on his DS Feb 13 18:04:45 but he shouts Feb 13 18:05:03 threatening Feb 13 18:05:33 * lcuk ponders releasing a midpoint liqflow Feb 13 18:05:56 lcuk, be careful he doesn't find any good Linux games or you might actually have to follow through on that one. :P Feb 13 18:06:19 GeneralAntilles, angrybirds style gameplay on the ds would be cool Feb 13 18:06:24 does anybody have a clue of why osso_notes does not auto-save my files, but it does save if asked? i've launched it via "hildon_mime_open_file_with_mime_type", and it does auto-save correctly if launched from the file manager or manually Feb 13 18:06:27 it would have to be firing upwards really Feb 13 18:06:56 lcuk, I'm sure there's already something. Feb 13 18:07:00 So... Maemo or Windows Mobile 7? Which is better? Feb 13 18:07:05 probably gen Feb 13 18:07:08 Aethaeryn, don't troll. Feb 13 18:07:18 lcuk, I know such games exist for Wii, so. . . . Feb 13 18:07:30 Sorry, couldn't resist seeing as WinMo is in the headlines this week... :( Feb 13 18:07:37 GeneralAntilles, ahh so even AB is a clone Feb 13 18:07:46 http://www.amazon.com/Boom-Blox-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B000YDIYFG Feb 13 18:08:00 Aethaeryn, if you troll GeneralAntilles too much, he will put you in the news :p Feb 13 18:08:26 So can Maemo multitask? Feb 13 18:09:36 Aethaeryn, yes, but only at an extreme cost to battery life since it has to use a different CPU core for each new task. Feb 13 18:09:57 How many CPU cores are there in the N900? Feb 13 18:10:06 At least a dozen Feb 13 18:10:15 So there can be at least a dozen things run at once? Feb 13 18:10:18 Can someone check if there's supposed to be something in /etc/sudoers ? Feb 13 18:10:30 Although I believe somebody on Talk is working on adding more with an addon card. Feb 13 18:11:18 Don't forget the disabled cores that are there to get the production yields up, the hack to enable those is a god send Feb 13 18:11:41 Indeed, though you need to do some soldering on some units. Feb 13 18:12:43 :) Feb 13 18:13:30 Aethaeryn, of course Maemo can multitask. There only practical limit is the one where you eventually enter swap hell and CPU deadlock, but that's in the 30-60 application range (depending on size, complexity and what they're doing). Feb 13 18:13:37 s/There/The Feb 13 18:13:48 so .. polipo as caching proxy (cache on microsd) configured .. lets see how well that works Feb 13 18:14:13 my big squid here does magic speeding up openstreetmap Feb 13 18:14:19 Yay \o/ Feb 13 18:14:19 Well, that's good to know. With iPhone/iPad not multitasking, and with WinMo 7 possibly removing multitasking, "multitasking" is one of those buzz words going around. Feb 13 18:14:45 Fixed it. My problems was that wizard mounter corrupted my sudoers file. Running update-sudoers helped :o) Feb 13 18:14:46 Aethaeryn, Maemo is basically very similar functionality-wise to your average desktop Linux machine. Feb 13 18:14:51 lol, WinMo without multitasking, good luck with that Feb 13 18:15:21 Except in hardware... Feb 13 18:16:01 functional specifications do not care of implementation details... Feb 13 18:16:02 The one thing I'm hesitant about is paying over $500 for something that can't run stuff I can run on my laptop... Feb 13 18:16:33 * b-man17 facepalms Feb 13 18:16:41 lol Feb 13 18:16:55 it is smaller than a laptop Feb 13 18:17:01 Aethaeryn, it's basically like having a laptop that fits in your pocket. Feb 13 18:17:06 Aethaeryn, i paid £10,000 for my car, but it doesnt do the same as my laptop Feb 13 18:17:26 can you make a call from your laptop? Feb 13 18:17:32 Yes. Feb 13 18:17:33 or take 5mp pictures Feb 13 18:17:36 . . . but can make phone calls and has decent battery life. Feb 13 18:17:40 (Skype) Feb 13 18:17:46 * ShadowJK paid 6900E for his car and it doesn't even bake bread, what a POS :( Feb 13 18:17:57 ShadowJK, you're just not trying hard enough. :P Feb 13 18:18:00 Aethaeryn, not exactly the same tho is it Feb 13 18:18:10 ShadowJK, you have heat and an enclosed space. Any other problems are personal. :P Feb 13 18:18:13 ShadowJK, 12v breadmaker Feb 13 18:18:17 Does Wesnoth run on the N900? Feb 13 18:18:30 I should have gotten a LADA, atleast it can grill sausages Feb 13 18:18:32 bread mix on top of the engine block, go for a drive, sorted Feb 13 18:18:51 nid0, i tried that, but the egg kept rolliung off Feb 13 18:18:51 Wesnoth + Freeciv are the only games I play, and if I could get it running on my phone maybe I'd be tempted to finish the add-ons I'm making Feb 13 18:18:52 aethaeryn http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41040&goto=newpost Feb 13 18:18:54 and breaking on the road Feb 13 18:18:55 Aethaeryn, dunno if anybody has updated it yet, but there's no reason why not. Feb 13 18:18:59 Freeciv is in the repos, I think. Feb 13 18:19:32 on N810 wesnoth was something I wasted a lot of time on... Feb 13 18:19:34 i believe Wesnoth is avalible for fremantle... Feb 13 18:19:45 * lcuk hits b-man17 on the head Feb 13 18:19:50 lol Feb 13 18:19:53 (no reason, just because) Feb 13 18:20:01 Oh, I regularly compile Wesnoth 1.7 and SVN trunk on my computer, with two different installs... though I use scons to compile and I'm not sure if the N900 can use that. Feb 13 18:20:18 then dig and find out dude Feb 13 18:21:05 can n900 improve my standing with the ladies? Feb 13 18:21:13 depends on the ladies Feb 13 18:21:24 Aethaeryn: trust me, the N900 can do almost anything your laptop can do if you put your mind to it ;) Feb 13 18:21:26 lcuk, too late for you. Feb 13 18:21:36 i meant more in a physical sense, im a bit short i need platform boots Feb 13 18:21:36 lcuk: i think somethings cannot be fixed Feb 13 18:21:38 some ladies will look at the n900, compare it to their hd2, and laugh at the small size Feb 13 18:22:09 * b-man17 ran Ubuntu 9.04 on his N800 ;P Feb 13 18:22:14 "it's not the size, it's the way you use it..." Feb 13 18:22:49 has anyone got 4 n900s Feb 13 18:22:51 or more Feb 13 18:23:08 lol, why xD? Feb 13 18:23:12 lcuk: Buy two n900s and store them in your shoes instead of your pockets? Feb 13 18:23:13 or can get together with friends Feb 13 18:23:16 Then you'll look taller. Feb 13 18:23:18 I'm thinking I'll get a second one when the USB port fails, and then I'll set up a blog and go on a crusade against nokia Feb 13 18:23:38 lcuk: how the hell do you know which one is the one you use for calling and stuff and which one you dont? Feb 13 18:23:41 ShadowJK: i think the failing has been happened after user unpacked the phone Feb 13 18:23:50 ShadowJK: or have you heard its broke after long usage? Feb 13 18:23:51 im grabbing the wrong one all the time, and mine even got diff keyboards Feb 13 18:23:54 frals... i used to have a problem, not not so much Feb 13 18:23:55 (i havent) Feb 13 18:24:02 i only have 2 finished ones that look right Feb 13 18:24:11 and its rare i get calls on the wrong one Feb 13 18:24:11 ifreq, dunno Feb 13 18:24:38 anyone know if there's packaging for http://qt.gitorious.org/uiemo yet? Feb 13 18:24:39 Wait, is Maemo basically a Linux distro, thus meaning that there's a centralized repository of free precompiled apps for it? Feb 13 18:24:55 aethaeryn: yes Feb 13 18:24:57 Until Nokia has completed their investigation and told us their findings I'm pessimistic :) Feb 13 18:24:57 frals, stickers work, and i just got this for tracy, but need a phone to fill it: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-PINK-HYBRID-HARD-COVER-RUBBER-CASE-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ150394071202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item23042f68a2 Feb 13 18:25:08 lol Feb 13 18:25:11 Aethaeryn, sure Feb 13 18:25:34 frals, and for the longest time i had a lanyard clip on my primary Feb 13 18:25:38 it just hand't get 15k apps like debian/ubuntu Feb 13 18:25:50 s/hadn't/hasn't/ Feb 13 18:25:51 mashiara, then get porting Feb 13 18:25:52 ah, should get a lanyard on the one i use, good point Feb 13 18:26:00 There's easy-debian-chroot that lets you run all of debian on it Feb 13 18:26:03 just dont want it scratching the screen :P Feb 13 18:26:05 now, at home it doesnt really matter Feb 13 18:26:08 lcuk: I didn't mean it as a bad thing... Feb 13 18:26:11 mashiara: That's okay, I use Fedora anyway... Feb 13 18:26:19 i run liqsketch stuff using the network thing Feb 13 18:26:22 So I'm used to having only a "few" thousand apps :P Feb 13 18:26:28 so both devices get the sketches Feb 13 18:26:39 Aethaeryn, im sorry Feb 13 18:26:57 my condolences, how on earth did you end up on fedora :p :D lol Feb 13 18:27:29 * ShadowJK uses fedora too Feb 13 18:27:39 The other day I realized I have a newer linux kernel on N900 than on my desktop Feb 13 18:27:55 twitter is full! Feb 13 18:27:58 but no1 go there Feb 13 18:28:07 cos i want to login sometime Feb 13 18:28:14 aethaeryn get the "maemo SDK" Feb 13 18:28:46 it will allow you to quickly test if something compiles without tweaks or not Feb 13 18:29:11 mashiara: Does the SDK work on Linux? Feb 13 18:29:16 sure Feb 13 18:29:22 It ONLY works on Linux Feb 13 18:29:33 Though there are ubuntu+sdk vmware images for windows users Feb 13 18:29:45 * ShadowJK actually uses the vmware image on linux too... Feb 13 18:30:13 I just installed it on my Ubuntu VM (running in Parallels on OSX) Feb 13 18:30:17 ShadowJK: or osx users.. Feb 13 18:30:29 sure, and Solaris users Feb 13 18:30:33 rumnnin virtual sdk on fusion myself Feb 13 18:30:36 works nicely. Feb 13 18:31:04 are the repositories down right now or something? I'm having trouble with apt-get update when trying to install the SDK Feb 13 18:31:13 Running apt-get update on 'FREMANTLE_ARMEL'. Feb 13 18:31:13 0% [Waiting for headers] Feb 13 18:31:20 * b-man17 has a dev environment on his N900 while on-the-go Feb 13 18:31:22 and it goes nowhere from there Feb 13 18:31:46 Hmm Feb 13 18:31:49 Does irssi run on Maemo? Feb 13 18:31:54 yes Feb 13 18:32:33 pekuja: same for me, looks like something is going on Feb 13 18:32:38 I have been using irssi since before 2006 (basically, day one of being full-time Linux user) and I really can't go back to an IRC client with a GUI Feb 13 18:33:06 mashiara: I guess I'll just have to wait then. luckliy I'm not in a rush or anything Feb 13 18:33:12 Unfortunately had a hard drive crash on my first Linux computer so I'll never know the first day of logs. Feb 13 18:33:47 Back then, when I had a desktop, I was going through a phase of trying to see how much uptime I could get out of the computer. The hardware gave out before the software did. Feb 13 18:33:51 Aethaeryn, x-terminal is installed by default, and irssi is in the extras repository... openssh is also there in case you want to run irssi in screen on a server somewhere Feb 13 18:34:30 xchat wfm. Feb 13 18:34:32 (mostly) Feb 13 18:34:48 Yeah I use xchat too Feb 13 18:34:50 Well, irssi played into my uptime obsession. Feb 13 18:34:53 as frontend to irssi mostly ;-) Feb 13 18:34:58 * b-man17 uses xchat Feb 13 18:35:01 Using "screen irssi" I wouldn't lose IRC even when the GUI went down. Feb 13 18:35:13 And it did go down several times. Feb 13 18:35:27 just cheat with uptime Feb 13 18:35:37 ive had my n900 uptime measured in decades Feb 13 18:35:43 ovi store is getting and update? Feb 13 18:35:45 lol Feb 13 18:35:57 "This N900 has been on longer than cell phones have existed." Feb 13 18:35:59 "So?" Feb 13 18:37:02 lcuk: your cheat is a time machine xD Feb 13 18:37:16 b-man17, o_O Feb 13 18:37:18 TARDIS Feb 13 18:37:29 bbl noms Feb 13 18:38:02 * Aethaeryn finally found out a disadvantage to Amazon Prime's free two-day shipping. Feb 13 18:38:14 * ioeee saluda Feb 13 18:38:27 If I were to buy the N900 today, I would get it Tuesday. There has been two major blizzards, and the snow's still on the ground. Anything shipped would surely get damaged. Feb 13 18:38:32 I *want* two-week shipping :P Feb 13 18:39:04 Over a meter/yard (depending on system of measurement) of snow on the ground isn't something to mess with. Feb 13 18:39:54 Aethaeryn: where are you located? Feb 13 18:40:19 just curious Feb 13 18:41:08 Maryland Feb 13 18:41:26 The DC-Baltimore-Philadelphia area was completely disabled all week. Feb 13 18:41:31 Unusual weatehr? Feb 13 18:41:36 My university shut down the whole week. Feb 13 18:41:37 Yeah. Feb 13 18:41:59 Very unusual. Feb 13 18:42:08 A record blizzard followed by a large one several days later. Feb 13 18:42:09 Normal weather here (scotland) - though late Dec was the heaviest falls of snow for 20 years. Feb 13 18:42:18 Well, we're further south. Feb 13 18:42:25 Even an inch of snow would cripple Miami Florida Feb 13 18:42:30 * b-man17 got those same 2 storms f- but we only got 1 1/2' Feb 13 18:42:32 The further south you are, the less snow you can handle. Feb 13 18:42:48 It snows on the equator. Feb 13 18:42:55 *1 1/2 feet Feb 13 18:43:20 Well, Amazon even had something up that said "Due to major storms on the east coast, shipping may be delayed" Feb 13 18:43:31 http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=3054 Feb 13 18:43:41 I do all my shopping off of Amazon, so the $80 a year Amazon Prime fee probably has already paid for itself. Feb 13 18:44:04 It's an evil scheme to get you to do all your shopping there since I ignore if it's a dollar or two cheaper elsewhere if I have free two day shipping off of Amazon. Feb 13 18:44:26 All your shopping? Feb 13 18:44:31 Do they do groceries now? Feb 13 18:44:46 Okay, all the shopping that's fun. Feb 13 18:44:55 ah Feb 13 18:45:02 * SpeedEvil is doing all shopping online. Feb 13 18:45:08 Including groceries. Feb 13 18:45:13 Amazon.com is a site I trust because they don't sign you up to hidden leach services that charge you $12 a month if you don't cancel them. Feb 13 18:45:18 Which happened to me on another website. Feb 13 18:45:44 All that *really* does is make me even less likely to use anything except Amazon for online shopping... morons, they're just letting Amazon build a name of trust. Feb 13 18:46:07 Aethaeryn, wouldn't take an inch. Feb 13 18:46:21 Aethaeryn, temps start dropping below freezing down here and people start freezing in their homes. Feb 13 18:46:34 lol. Feb 13 18:46:42 SpeedEvil, groceries yes, but only in WA. Feb 13 18:46:47 that's true xD Feb 13 18:46:49 * Aethaeryn grew up in a desert climate. Feb 13 18:47:01 I laugh at the "heat stroke" warnings once we get in the 90s or 100s... Feb 13 18:47:03 yeah - many people do absolutely not know how to deal with the cold. Feb 13 18:47:11 Or heat Feb 13 18:47:11 "Stay indoors... code red..." etc... Feb 13 18:47:16 Hot, on the other hand, we can handle. Feb 13 18:47:54 GeneralAntilles: I've got 3 supermarkets that will deliver to me, so I don't reallyu need amazon. Feb 13 18:48:12 Now you're making me seriously check to see if Amazon does groceries. Feb 13 18:48:21 Aethaeryn, they do, but only in WA. Feb 13 18:48:34 SpeedEvil, we have some local ones that'll deliver, too, but you have to order over the phone. Feb 13 18:48:39 Of course, my first task after finding a new supermarket that delivers is to scrape the website, and do a sort-by-price script. Feb 13 18:48:48 SpeedEvil, I'd just as soon drive the mile. ;) Feb 13 18:49:04 it's been like -10C to -25C here lately. chilly. Feb 13 18:49:08 http://www.amazon.com/grocery-breakfast-foods-snacks-organic/b/ref=sa_menu_gro7?ie=UTF8&node=16310101 Feb 13 18:49:12 GeneralAntilles: yeah - it's more like 10 yere. And gasoline is $2/l. And I don't currently have a license. Feb 13 18:49:16 So... Feb 13 18:49:23 MiXu-: Indeed. Feb 13 18:49:40 http://ocado.com/ is an interesting concept. Feb 13 18:49:48 pure grocery delivery service - no stores Feb 13 18:50:25 SpeedEvil, I like the photoshopped truck picture in the right column. Feb 13 18:50:37 lol Feb 13 18:50:41 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at the Tropicana ad. Feb 13 18:50:44 That stuff is so gross. Feb 13 18:51:01 (that's -13F) Feb 13 18:51:10 frals, ping? Feb 13 18:51:54 According to the 1995 film The Net, you could order pizza online... in 1995. Feb 13 18:52:10 Remember, this is before most people used the Internet for anything, let alone used it for shopping. Feb 13 18:52:24 In one or two locations - perhaps Feb 13 18:52:32 http://www.rodrigostoledo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/nokia-n920-fake.jpg Feb 13 18:52:42 That's reassuring. Feb 13 18:52:48 Nokia isn't ditching the hardware keyboard, it's a fake. Feb 13 18:53:12 I have seen simple applications that used basically a form hooked up to a printer to do that sort of thing Feb 13 18:53:14 that fake mockup looks ugly Feb 13 18:53:34 Aethaeryn, yeah, no shit. :P Feb 13 18:53:45 didnt "the net" have ipv4 addresses with octets > 255 Feb 13 18:53:50 Aethaeryn, anybody who looked at that and didn't notice the fakery is blind. :P Feb 13 18:54:04 n920 running diablo Feb 13 18:54:06 :P Feb 13 18:54:17 hell, n900 doesnt run diablo, even though i might be bored enough to try and get it to boot. Feb 13 18:54:27 Stskeeps, please don't. :P Feb 13 18:54:43 If you're ever that bored it means you need to find more PRODUCTIVE things to do. :D Feb 13 18:54:44 hehe Feb 13 18:54:55 I nearly bought a n900 today :-) Feb 13 18:55:01 GeneralAntilles: i'm currently rebuilding Mer from scratch to try out a hypothesis, :P Feb 13 18:55:11 Stskeeps, see, that sounds productive. Feb 13 18:55:16 I still think that the next Nokia device in the line should be called the N1337 Feb 13 18:55:24 Just skip a few numbers. Feb 13 18:55:24 At least it doesn't have anything to do with a codebase from 2007. :P Feb 13 18:55:34 GeneralAntilles: Debian Lenny? ;) Feb 13 18:55:51 GeneralAntilles: was your dell mini a touchscreen btw? Feb 13 18:55:59 They make them in touchscreen? Feb 13 18:56:14 N715517 Feb 13 18:56:19 GeneralAntilles: no idea Feb 13 18:56:23 The python installer for the sdk requires root access? Feb 13 18:56:30 Stskeeps, the Mini 9 only has an aftermarket mod Feb 13 18:56:40 GeneralAntilles: pong Feb 13 18:56:53 GeneralAntilles: seeking targets for testing out mer^2 and currently i have a zoom2 on the armel side, and a joggler on the x86 side :P Feb 13 18:56:57 I'm glad Fedora's supported though... Feb 13 18:57:06 frals, OK, before I file this one I wanted to ask you. Feb 13 18:57:28 frals, I got a new MMS yesterday. I tapped it 3 times to open it (impatient :P). Feb 13 18:57:42 frals, first time sent up the loading banner, second and third times did nothing. Feb 13 18:58:04 frals, but when the message loaded, I looked at it and tapped the back button it sent me back to the message again. Feb 13 18:58:04 and now you cant view it, ye? Feb 13 18:58:25 oh, cool ;D Feb 13 18:58:26 frals, so it opened the message 3 times and added a new one on the end of the breadcrumb trail for each. Feb 13 18:58:51 Related: drop the hildon banner notifications. Feb 13 18:58:57 Doesn't follow spec, etc. :P Feb 13 18:59:29 file it, i need to work some on the notifications at some point Feb 13 19:00:35 I'm trying to install the SDK, but it the Next button is grayed out unless I uncheck "Install Nokia Binaries" Feb 13 19:00:45 * frals is looking forward to a bug report without all the fields changed Feb 13 19:00:49 Does that mean they don't want me to install the Nokia binaries? Feb 13 19:01:31 hi, so how's it with the 032 flashlight? is the "bork-after-first-use" bug fixed? Feb 13 19:02:53 frals, you want some versions and milestones? Feb 13 19:03:11 nah, thanks thou Feb 13 19:03:15 Aethaeryn, maybe there's license you need to agree to? Feb 13 19:03:23 or scroll through Feb 13 19:03:41 hi there are some problems by using the devel repositories like any other? Feb 13 19:05:17 ShadowJK: I did check I agree... Maybe their patented psychic mind-reading technology (for the N920, of course) told them I didn't really read it? Feb 13 19:05:30 lol Feb 13 19:06:17 I'll just install it without the binaries Feb 13 19:06:34 Possibly I was missing some dependency or something, but really I just want to see if certain applications work without tweaking Feb 13 19:06:47 And installation failed anyway :P Feb 13 19:07:11 * GeneralAntilles wonders why maemo.org is slow again. Feb 13 19:07:11 * RST38h wandered into some really long Java N900 thread Feb 13 19:07:18 So much for Fedora support... Feb 13 19:07:20 Weird people. Feb 13 19:07:48 That's okay, I get to play around with gnome-shell development build a lot easier than other distros can. :P Feb 13 19:08:28 ah, god bless bad coding Feb 13 19:08:49 my openness report forgot all the components that were between > 80% and < 99% openness Feb 13 19:10:46 \o/ awesome map-caching with polipo Feb 13 19:11:44 * Spilio se despide y cierra o/ Feb 13 19:11:48 Has anybody tried connecting a n900 with arduino over the usb port? Feb 13 19:12:53 OR, more accurate question - can i use the usb port on n900 to send and recieve voltage on each pin? Feb 13 19:14:06 LuciusMare, I don't think you can get that low-level access to the port Feb 13 19:14:52 >:( Feb 13 19:14:53 or do you have some sort of USB<->ADC adapter Feb 13 19:15:01 adc? Feb 13 19:15:07 ... Feb 13 19:15:13 Analog-Digital Converter Feb 13 19:15:22 LuciusMare: there is no low-level access. Feb 13 19:15:32 aw Feb 13 19:15:41 In fact I don't think *any* USB chipset allows that low-level access Feb 13 19:16:11 LuciusMare: you would need to use - unless you fix host mode - which seems plausible but has not been done - a I2C-USB host device on the arduino Feb 13 19:16:22 http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3637 Feb 13 19:16:41 figure the jtag or serial bus out Feb 13 19:17:14 ehm and whats the 3rd connector under the battery? another usb? hostmode even? :) Feb 13 19:17:35 i was told that the serial bus is under battery and for debugging use only Feb 13 19:17:56 hang on, I need to dig out an old link Feb 13 19:18:03 well yes .. as in "how do you access the thing with the battery inserted?" Feb 13 19:18:34 http://www.natisbad.org/N900/n900-commented-hardware-specs.html Feb 13 19:20:27 cehteh: thin cables would work Feb 13 19:20:36 yeah Feb 13 19:20:47 there was also some thread where someone had made their own "jig" to access the serial port under the battery while the device is running Feb 13 19:21:13 nokia care has these special jigs for it Feb 13 19:21:19 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking Feb 13 19:21:40 I need to fill in that at some point with findings about the several ports Feb 13 19:21:47 I haven't gotten round to it yet Feb 13 19:21:48 geeze, why can't they just make it easier for us? Feb 13 19:21:52 meh Feb 13 19:23:41 I wonder about the USB host mode though Feb 13 19:24:02 N770 didn't suplly power (OTG) but host mode could be enabled simply Feb 13 19:24:17 mashiara: jig for n900? Feb 13 19:24:18 AFAIUnderstand N900 has slightly more complex problem here Feb 13 19:24:36 why? Feb 13 19:25:01 stskeeps: ? please eloborate Feb 13 19:25:06 LuciusMare, charging and the USB consortium. Feb 13 19:25:22 usb consortuium? O_o Feb 13 19:25:43 LuciusMare, yes, the one that decides whether you can put a USB logo on the box or not. Feb 13 19:26:05 heh Feb 13 19:26:25 i know what usb consortium is, but what is the exact problem? Feb 13 19:27:04 Some sort of hardware issue that meant they couldn't just ship as-is and ship a fix later. Feb 13 19:27:19 At least and be allowed to put a USB logo on the box. Feb 13 19:27:21 my (limited) understanding to it is that the ability to charge over USB and the ability to have USB host mode on the same port are at odds Feb 13 19:27:28 The exact problem at the moment seems - as far as I've investigated it - that there is no software support for properly turning round the host port. I need to find time to finish reading the datasheet and kernel. Feb 13 19:27:36 honestly, i wouldnt use host mode. never did on 770 Feb 13 19:27:55 The best case is that you will require an external powered hub/cable though Feb 13 19:28:13 to me the only place it might be useful is if one could eventually get full-definition video out of it Feb 13 19:28:15 (but you'd need an adaptor anyway - as nothing will plug into a microb) Feb 13 19:28:19 mashiara: just if someone made a custom jig for n900 yet that isn't a nokia one Feb 13 19:28:43 so you could have a sort of usb docking station, as it were Feb 13 19:28:48 greenfly: USB2 video adaptors may work. I question if they will be fast enough for high speed video. Feb 13 19:29:25 SpeedEvil: as long as they'd be faster than the current x11vnc + wireless... Feb 13 19:29:27 If the hardware support to put video onto them isn't there. The CPU is quite slow - for dealing with HD video. Feb 13 19:29:37 you can use usb joysticks with it for mobile gaming: http://junk.kegetys.net/mobile_gaming.jpg ;) Feb 13 19:29:51 you can dovideo over usb-net too Feb 13 19:30:03 it would suck to game with a cable pluggd in Feb 13 19:30:09 Kegetys: well - you can use wiimotes right now Feb 13 19:30:12 Kegetys, or just get yourself a SIXAXIS Feb 13 19:30:16 youd be pulling the device around Feb 13 19:30:18 I think usb-net is going to ultimately be the solution for most of these things Feb 13 19:30:35 stskeeps: Yes, but it didn't look like a solution that would last for very long, I'll see if I find the link Feb 13 19:30:40 mashiara: mostly cos it would be nice to point community hackers to a solution for n900 :) Feb 13 19:31:16 the PS3 six axxis plus tv-out should be great Feb 13 19:31:36 The most ideal case would be if there was a USB host bus under the battery. That seems unlikely at best though. Feb 13 19:31:42 I2C would be fun too. Feb 13 19:31:46 X-Fade, something is really broken in the package interface, someone uploaded a game today, begged for votes and the game is already in extras :( Feb 13 19:31:47 And is more likely. Feb 13 19:33:58 to whome should you whine if you want nfs4 support in the n900's kernel? Feb 13 19:34:02 VDVsx, Feb 13 19:34:15 which game? Feb 13 19:34:56 stskeeps: can't find the link (should have bookmarked it, or maybe I'm just delusional) Feb 13 19:35:38 Tritzt: build the module yourself ? Feb 13 19:35:55 Trizt: don't whine, but if you go to talk.maemo.org there's a thread on the custom kernel that enables iptables, ext4,reiser,xfs, etc. support. that would be a good place to make a request Feb 13 19:36:00 in fact I think I have seen some nfs related modules Feb 13 19:36:11 yeah it's possible someone's already done it Feb 13 19:36:18 lcuk, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/hoopsfrenzy/ Feb 13 19:36:23 "seen" as in seen in the app-manager Feb 13 19:36:24 i am sure i would use the usb host, i would love it Feb 13 19:36:41 there is the nfs module, but that is just nfs <=3 Feb 13 19:36:48 VDVsx, so wheres the dupe? Feb 13 19:36:51 and is it OSS Feb 13 19:36:52 USB host even without power (ie using powered hub) would be great for HW hackers Feb 13 19:37:19 Trizt: http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ scroll down to how to change kernel feature X Feb 13 19:37:25 mashiara, the hardware hackers seem to be doing ok with bluetooth modules Feb 13 19:37:30 allows extra things too Feb 13 19:37:36 lcuk, well, 1o days of quarantine like the rest of the packages, also the packages doesn't respect the q&a rules Feb 13 19:37:58 sure, I actually have some bluetooth modules laying around somewhere... now where did I put them ? Feb 13 19:38:35 silicon heaven Feb 13 19:38:42 the place where all the calculators go to die Feb 13 19:38:48 i used nfs for a long time and it sucks when losing connection Feb 13 19:39:11 sshfs? Feb 13 19:39:17 better Feb 13 19:39:20 mashiara; feels like a lot of work for one tiny option Feb 13 19:40:05 Trizt, some people climb mountains "because they are there" Feb 13 19:40:10 Trizt: that build a whole kernel +modules + flasher debs Feb 13 19:40:29 you could just get the source and compile just the module you need Feb 13 19:40:49 provided it does not require any extra symbols in the kernel proper (like nf_conntrack does, grr) Feb 13 19:41:18 Mmm... it may :( Feb 13 19:41:42 In that case you need to flash a custom kernel too Feb 13 19:42:00 IMO the scripts I have made for the mobilehotspot project make it rather easy and quick Feb 13 19:42:18 (certainly easier than remembering to do all the little things by hand) Feb 13 19:42:47 of course compiling the armel kernel takes almost an hour on my virtualmachine running the SDK Feb 13 19:43:03 gotta love emulation... Feb 13 19:43:23 I do wonder what it'd be natively. Feb 13 19:43:29 I suspect about half that Feb 13 19:43:37 maby 3/4 Feb 13 19:43:41 I lost graphics on mine when I made a distro upgrade, really wish there could be an ebuild instead Feb 13 19:44:07 http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/13/celios-redfly-smartphone-dock-gets-real-enough-for-a-demo-reel/ Feb 13 19:44:18 wonder how much custom software something like this requires Feb 13 19:45:23 probably not that much Feb 13 19:45:30 depending of course on the phone... Feb 13 19:45:57 yeah, I mean it looked like they were using a blackberry bold Feb 13 19:46:03 which doesn't have usb host mode Feb 13 19:46:15 Umm Feb 13 19:46:21 you use bluetooth Feb 13 19:46:23 and you're done Feb 13 19:46:37 SpeedEvil: umm BT video? Feb 13 19:46:49 oh - missed hte video Feb 13 19:47:05 video is the main thing for me, the rest is easy Feb 13 19:47:21 woot, nexus one got hacked so it geys usb host? >:( Feb 13 19:47:24 "WinMo 7 Starter will have conversations limited to 3 minutes." Feb 13 19:47:30 :) Feb 13 19:48:09 wazd: heh are they using gizmo or something? Feb 13 19:49:01 that's a joke from Engadget :) Feb 13 19:49:10 but damn funny joke it is :D Feb 13 19:49:26 what about ovi store update for n900? Feb 13 19:49:47 when acess do ovi tell me to go to app manager Feb 13 19:50:02 but then nothing shows on update window Feb 13 19:53:27 evening RevdKathy Feb 13 19:53:41 even Stskeeps Feb 13 19:53:45 how's tricks? Feb 13 19:54:27 wazd: the important question is whether it will receive calls =) Feb 13 19:55:16 RevdKathy: going out for some beers tonight with business contacts, waiting for the missus to get ready :P Feb 13 19:56:21 Sounds like fun, Stskeeps. I am aiming for an early night. Am finally on a bit of leave and have been studying too much Feb 13 19:56:48 Got me a bacardi and coke though - no work or worship in the morning. :) Feb 13 19:57:20 http://www.mobypicture.com/user/nokiAAddict/view/6007977 Feb 13 19:57:25 ovi update Feb 13 19:57:51 I looked for the ovi update and didn't find anything Feb 13 19:58:14 me to Feb 13 19:58:26 shows nothing Feb 13 19:58:40 myabe tomorrow Feb 13 19:58:44 maybe Feb 13 20:04:25 is there a way for someone to send 100MB files to my N900: Feb 13 20:04:41 skype on n900 does not allow file transfer Feb 13 20:04:46 dcc Feb 13 20:04:57 or ftp Feb 13 20:05:04 friend is too dumb to open his dcc port Feb 13 20:05:08 bittorrent Feb 13 20:05:27 hmm ftp eh Feb 13 20:05:28 ftp server on your n900? Feb 13 20:05:36 not bad Feb 13 20:06:00 or rapidshare Feb 13 20:06:04 but... Feb 13 20:06:36 scp Feb 13 20:06:53 ssh? Feb 13 20:06:54 :P Feb 13 20:07:42 Does the n900 have a microSD slot? Though I know the HD is massive, I'm just curious... Feb 13 20:07:51 yes Feb 13 20:07:51 yes Feb 13 20:07:53 under the cover Feb 13 20:07:55 SDHC even ! Feb 13 20:08:34 SDHC or microSDHC ? Feb 13 20:09:05 microSDHC :P Feb 13 20:09:16 Does it play music? Feb 13 20:09:25 OGG? Feb 13 20:09:29 so you can do 48G now, and 64G in a couple of months Feb 13 20:09:50 who uses ogg? :P Feb 13 20:10:08 I'd use ogg if digital music players supported it :P Feb 13 20:10:17 The N900 does Feb 13 20:10:21 MikeJB: there is separate "application" package that adds ogg support but I have no actually tested it Feb 13 20:10:24 but I see no reason why you'd use it :p Feb 13 20:10:24 mikejb it does support ogg however not out of the box... Feb 13 20:10:35 I use that package... but I have an issue with it Feb 13 20:10:37 AAC+ is better :P Feb 13 20:10:41 the cpu utilization is not optimized Feb 13 20:10:51 Arif: Ogg is one of the things I agree with the FSF on. Feb 13 20:11:04 it uses up more CPU when playing ogg than when playing AAC or mp3 Feb 13 20:11:04 dantonic: I think the MP3 decoder uses the DSP Feb 13 20:11:12 but yeah ogg support is as far away as a few ticks :P Feb 13 20:11:29 mashiara: nope. It uses the CPU - and probably not actually very efficiently. Feb 13 20:11:32 ogg is there tho Feb 13 20:11:34 There are better codecs out there Feb 13 20:11:37 the tags aren't supported fully though Feb 13 20:11:48 I mean - better decoder software for mp3 Feb 13 20:11:53 i uses libvorbis libogg, but ffmpeg has its own CPU encoder that's more optimized than xiph's official Feb 13 20:11:55 there is Mplayer that plays ogg very efficiently Feb 13 20:12:02 however there isnt a great front end for it yet Feb 13 20:12:07 MPlayer uses ffmpeg's vorbis decoder by default I think. Feb 13 20:12:13 it does Feb 13 20:12:14 Eh, I guess the reason for using ogg is that it's the best free competitor to mp3 in the sense of popularity. Feb 13 20:12:25 SpeedEvile: Ok, I was mistaken then Feb 13 20:12:27 right Feb 13 20:12:31 And popularity means everything because if the format is popular it usually gets updated enough to surpass competitors. Feb 13 20:12:32 have you tried eAAC+ :p Feb 13 20:12:34 it also plays flac very well and efficiently Feb 13 20:12:53 Take a look at how USB originally sucked, but 2.0 and 3.0 are taking care of the speed issues now. Feb 13 20:13:12 Supposedly ffmpeg can encode flac better than the official flac encoder too (in the lunatic modes of both) Feb 13 20:13:22 USB1 is awesome Feb 13 20:13:26 with its 600KB/s Feb 13 20:13:27 ogg sounds good Feb 13 20:13:27 :d Feb 13 20:13:28 the only inefficient one at this time is ogg.. I'm disappointed about it because I converted my whole collection to ogg :( Feb 13 20:13:43 I hope they can get ffmpeg to work with the defaul player soon Feb 13 20:13:46 default* Feb 13 20:13:51 meh Feb 13 20:13:54 It obviously works because it was benchmarked Feb 13 20:13:57 FLAC doesn't show tags in the media player Feb 13 20:14:01 so I had to convert to mp3 :P Feb 13 20:14:17 it only showed the album art for some reason Feb 13 20:14:18 grah Feb 13 20:14:21 If I got a smartphone that was good enough to the point where I could ditch my iPod, I definitely would convert my mp3 collection to ogg Feb 13 20:14:35 iPod? Feb 13 20:14:35 lol Feb 13 20:14:36 I already have some ogg, since Fedora rips from CDs in ogg format by default. Feb 13 20:14:43 Arif: Not even a touch screen one :P Feb 13 20:15:03 Though that's on purpose, since they don't support Linux very well. Feb 13 20:15:09 MikeJB like I said ogg is there but it needs some better support Feb 13 20:15:12 I've used my phones as mp3 players since the 6230 came out Feb 13 20:15:13 :p Feb 13 20:15:23 it will still play fine, just instead of your battery lasting 20+ hours playing music it will last 10 Feb 13 20:15:48 Convergence is the only chance of killing the iPod... it's such a large monopoly on the music player industry, to the point where almost all MP3 players look like the iPod (with the wheel, etc.) Feb 13 20:16:10 No wonder Apple needed the iPhone to take off so badly... they could probably see that trend too Feb 13 20:16:14 Harmattan is supposed to have built in ogg support Feb 13 20:16:20 I'm all alone as someone who never had warm feelings for a rotten apple Feb 13 20:16:20 :P Feb 13 20:16:30 but who knows maybe they'll bring it sooner :P Feb 13 20:16:31 I hope Feb 13 20:16:46 nah, I never saw how anyone in their right minds could ever buy anything from apple either Feb 13 20:17:01 it's so expensive, for less than the competitoin! Feb 13 20:17:02 ;P Feb 13 20:17:07 Arif: Apple is about 2x as popular in the US as everywhere else, if you look at market share of Macs in US vs. global average. I'm sure its mindshare crosses over to devices too Feb 13 20:17:20 So in the US, especially among young people, you don't buy an MP3 player, you buy an iPod Feb 13 20:17:31 oh that's why Feb 13 20:17:36 over here it's not THAT bad Feb 13 20:17:40 Just like you don't buy tissues, you buy Kleenex, and you don't photocopy, you Xerox :P Feb 13 20:17:49 Xerox? Feb 13 20:17:52 never heard of that Feb 13 20:17:55 well, everybody knows americans are stupid Feb 13 20:18:07 Arif: A long time ago, they invented the GUI :P Feb 13 20:18:11 crackberries are more popular nowadays xD Feb 13 20:18:21 a large proportion of them at least... Feb 13 20:18:22 Oh great. then I love them Feb 13 20:18:32 villager: Have you ever watched the news in the US? Feb 13 20:18:42 CNN was pratically a giant ad for Twitter a few months ago when I tried to watch it. Feb 13 20:18:44 is it as magazineish as I hear it is? Feb 13 20:18:52 nokia should revise the microusb cable and charger to have a shorter lead Feb 13 20:18:58 I wouldn't be surprised if Twitter was paying and sponsoring the show. Feb 13 20:19:00 MikeJB: a couple of times, but since I don't live there, then usually no Feb 13 20:19:10 They had a scrolling Twitter ticker at the bottom, even. Feb 13 20:19:18 shorter lead? why? it's not long enough to reach everywhere in my bedroom as it is! Feb 13 20:19:22 needs to be longer Feb 13 20:19:25 I don't think you understand how ingrained consumerism is in the US Feb 13 20:19:40 Nokia should've put better speakers in the N900 Feb 13 20:19:46 like the 5800 or N95 8GB ones Feb 13 20:20:01 Like the N810 ones :) Feb 13 20:20:07 it's just a cracklefest now Feb 13 20:20:12 The N900 isn't popular in the US because Nokia didn't buy a Super Bowl ad... :P Feb 13 20:20:13 like the N800 ones!! Feb 13 20:20:15 :P Feb 13 20:20:15 mine doesn't crackle Feb 13 20:20:28 the N800 ones are worse than N810, which is surprising because the N800 are forward facing Feb 13 20:20:28 mine crackles on lower bitrate Feb 13 20:20:30 like radio Feb 13 20:20:31 (I have both) Feb 13 20:20:39 I've never heard crackle Feb 13 20:20:46 if you put it on max Feb 13 20:20:53 If Nokia bought a Super Bowl ad with either (1) cute animals, (2) pantless people (don't ask me why, but that was a trend this year), or (3) some random celebrity endorsement... it'd have a larger market share in the US Feb 13 20:21:00 I've never used an N800 or N810 :O Feb 13 20:21:02 My issue is more that the volume doesn't go low enough Feb 13 20:21:08 N810 speakers kick ass Feb 13 20:21:33 ShadowJK, really I thought the opposite.. the N800 were supposed to be more powerful Feb 13 20:21:36 MikeJB, you watch hairy pantless men? ew =P Feb 13 20:21:58 so what? power doesn't mean anything Feb 13 20:22:02 MikeJB: I don't believe Nokia actually intends for the N900 to be a mainstream phone, so they wouldn't advertise it like that Feb 13 20:22:06 the N810 speakers *sound* better Feb 13 20:22:25 They should've just gone with the 5800 ones Feb 13 20:22:27 those were sweet Feb 13 20:22:33 I don't care which one of them can be louder, I could just stab myself in the ear if I want to go deaf Feb 13 20:22:39 Arif: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1FxwagDP8A&feature=player_embedded Feb 13 20:22:41 and one other... Feb 13 20:23:11 lol Feb 13 20:23:12 ShadowJK: really? Feb 13 20:23:22 really what? Feb 13 20:23:25 flash is the only thing that really lags my browser Feb 13 20:23:29 so it'll take a minute to find the other one Feb 13 20:23:34 Speakers are a huge compromise. Feb 13 20:23:54 There is nothing magical about them - the more space you have to devote - the better the sound (for constant money) Feb 13 20:23:56 ShadowJK: n810 > n900 Feb 13 20:24:03 dockane_, speakers? yeah Feb 13 20:24:08 headphone output? no way Feb 13 20:24:18 N900 has a few magnitudes better headphone output Feb 13 20:24:20 the headphone output is better than the previous phones I had Feb 13 20:24:25 except the N91 Feb 13 20:24:59 The n810 speakers have the same noise as the n810 headphone output, but typically on speakers I have volume somewhere at quarter/half anyway, so the noise is mostly masked by the music Feb 13 20:25:08 ShadowJK: still suboptimal for hp out. too much bass. for spk I dunno Feb 13 20:25:19 Arif: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojMh0VCBv0g&feature=player_embedded <- the other one Feb 13 20:25:37 Yeah, it's bass heavy :/ Feb 13 20:25:50 oh, that's even gayer Feb 13 20:25:52 lol Feb 13 20:26:37 Arif: Yes. So pantless was a theme. Feb 13 20:26:50 if it was females there on the other hand... Feb 13 20:26:54 =P Feb 13 20:27:00 though I got the impression a lot of quality flaws on 900 hpout is due to PA/whatever mangling. not HW Feb 13 20:27:09 hi there. I am trying to install the maemo sdk. I am stuck while running ./maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh Feb 13 20:27:24 Arif: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40-Oskte2uQ&feature=player_embedded <- I think she's pantless in this one Feb 13 20:27:48 DocScrutinizer, that's possible Feb 13 20:27:51 there is an error indicating that my normal user is not able to execute scratchbox login. Feb 13 20:27:56 of course, the phone she's advertizing sucks. Feb 13 20:27:56 mplayer can bypass pulse atleast Feb 13 20:28:02 It's not even good by Android standards. Feb 13 20:28:12 but my user is in the sbox group Feb 13 20:28:20 So that's the Super Bowl in the US: bad commercials advertizing good stuff and good commercials advertizing bad stuff Feb 13 20:28:41 we as downloaders don't see any of those Feb 13 20:28:41 i wish n900 could beam a console screen into my eye Feb 13 20:28:41 :D Feb 13 20:28:58 there's also that legend about N900 shooting own spkr onn high vol. So PA has a special ALV which for sure would flaw the HP if active for this out as well Feb 13 20:29:24 Arif: But there you go, for some reason 2010 is the year of the pantless commercials. I wonder what focus group thought that up. Feb 13 20:29:33 pupnik, yeah I think that's the next step.. implants or goggles Feb 13 20:29:58 DocScrutinizer, I remember someone complaining the N900 audio (both spk and headphone) is heavily compressed Feb 13 20:30:02 maybe they were out of pants Feb 13 20:30:03 dynamic range compression Feb 13 20:30:16 yup Feb 13 20:30:21 exactly Feb 13 20:30:50 Arif: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbifmRBBN6Q&feature=player_embedded <- one of the few ads I actually liked... note that the robot is not wearing any pants :P Feb 13 20:31:21 thougz, due to closed source nature of this subsystem you never know if they did some tweaks to it on PR1.1 Feb 13 20:32:22 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if Nokia could publish the commit logs for closed source components at least Feb 13 20:32:42 try bugzilla? :) Feb 13 20:32:57 err? Feb 13 20:33:15 * Arif is waiting for the only bug he reported to be fixed Feb 13 20:33:15 :P Feb 13 20:33:33 file a bug report asking for changelogs for the closed source components Feb 13 20:33:34 dunno if there's any commitlogs. or do you suggest to open ticket for nokia to disclose commitlogs? Feb 13 20:33:40 aah Feb 13 20:33:42 k Feb 13 20:33:56 maybe eventually I,ll do Feb 13 20:34:00 or I guess you could file a bug asking for a way to switch off pa-rape on headphone Feb 13 20:34:21 tablets-dev.nokia.com is down :( Feb 13 20:34:31 that's two rather distinct topics Feb 13 20:34:58 okay, i just found i have no idea how n900 works, no idea about the hw, i didnt even know what i2c is.. where should i start? Feb 13 20:35:05 sure Feb 13 20:35:17 lol Feb 13 20:35:22 But that's a way to get changelogs, when status in bugzilla changes with a version number attached Feb 13 20:35:32 wikipedia.en/I2C Feb 13 20:35:55 heh Feb 13 20:36:06 I already had read about it Feb 13 20:36:33 hmm Feb 13 20:36:41 anyone know how to reset alsamixer if I screw stuff up? Feb 13 20:36:43 LuciusMare the HW pages linked earlier are a good start Feb 13 20:37:03 LuciusMare: heh. maybe you'd find wiki.openmoko.org helpful? Feb 13 20:37:13 mashiara: i only have noticed wiki.maemo.org/hw hacking Feb 13 20:37:17 DocScrutinizer51: maybe, thanks Feb 13 20:38:07 http://www.natisbad.org/N900/n900-commented-hardware-specs.html Feb 13 20:38:09 LuciusMare: as for N900 there,s NO way to understand about all that - at least not for ordinary mortals Feb 13 20:38:17 hah Feb 13 20:38:23 someone had to design it Feb 13 20:38:59 yeah, but that someone has signed a NDA Feb 13 20:39:18 are you suggesting Nokia people are not mortals ? Feb 13 20:39:21 ~NDA Feb 13 20:39:21 interesting... Feb 13 20:39:22 I'm not allowed to tell you Feb 13 20:39:27 haha Feb 13 20:39:58 ~wtf NDA Feb 13 20:40:00 Gee... I don't know what NDA means... Feb 13 20:40:06 omg Feb 13 20:40:12 :D Feb 13 20:40:19 Evening all. Feb 13 20:40:25 I've been wondering about the 4pin audio port Feb 13 20:40:25 non disclosure agreement Feb 13 20:40:40 or AV port Feb 13 20:40:47 so waht? Feb 13 20:41:13 how they exactly handle the headset vs video adapter etc Feb 13 20:41:27 yeah,wondered about that too Feb 13 20:41:31 ie, do they perhaps expode I2C bus there... Feb 13 20:41:52 s/expode/expose/ Feb 13 20:41:52 mashiara meant: ie, do they perhaps expose I2C bus there... Feb 13 20:42:01 it checks the pins? Feb 13 20:42:02 http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Mobile_Technologies/Connectivity_&_Interfaces/Wired_Interfaces/Nokia_AV_2.5mm_and_3.5mm_Connector.xhtml Feb 13 20:42:02 :O Feb 13 20:42:14 nice Feb 13 20:43:02 Arif: basically yes. It checks the resistance from e.g mic pin to GND Feb 13 20:43:23 the N95 always asked what it was Feb 13 20:43:24 o.o Feb 13 20:43:39 for headset that's <4k, for AV video on same pin the cable has to be >>than 4k Feb 13 20:44:07 this might also sound stupid,but Feb 13 20:44:21 4k being a arbitrary number here. Not backed by any spec lookup Feb 13 20:44:35 it gets the point over doesn't it ;p Feb 13 20:44:47 is it possible to "add" a mic to an already existing, fully functional headphones? Feb 13 20:44:57 sure Feb 13 20:45:30 I wonder if Nokia'll add support for the remote Feb 13 20:45:46 a lot of "headsets" work that way: 4pin-plug to a small case with mic and 3pin receptacle for ordinary headphones Feb 13 20:47:18 is it bad that i can't play the mtorola super bowl commerciral mikejb linked to earlier on my mbp without it stuttering, hanging, etc.? Feb 13 20:47:20 If you want to add a mic, I'd suggest you look at AD-54. It's basically an extension coord with mic at the end.. you plug headphone into it Feb 13 20:47:40 timeless_mbp, welcome to flash :) Feb 13 20:48:07 timeless_mbp, flash? Feb 13 20:48:14 what would it be :) Feb 13 20:48:26 Silverlight? Feb 13 20:48:28 ShadowJK: that is clever Feb 13 20:48:39 Dunno, ever with my E5520 Mac Pro Flash still manages to slow things down. Feb 13 20:48:51 So, no, I doubt it's bad. Feb 13 20:49:33 GeneralAntilles: my mac is dying (actually, its hdd is dying), so the system just hangs perioically anyway Feb 13 20:49:49 timeless_mbp, Intel X25 Feb 13 20:50:08 or Vertex Agility when on budget Feb 13 20:50:12 or Feb 13 20:50:17 er, OCZ agility Feb 13 20:50:24 Thing is like freaking greased lightning. Feb 13 20:52:02 * GeneralAntilles would go with X25V over OCZ Feb 13 20:52:07 * timeless_mbp grumbles Feb 13 20:52:14 GeneralAntilles, yeah Feb 13 20:52:20 It's only like twice as fast Feb 13 20:52:44 but Vertex & Agility are still a few magnitudes faster than the jmicron stuff Feb 13 20:53:01 True, but still, getting into a MacBook Pro is kind of a pain. Feb 13 20:53:06 Might as well do it right the first time. Feb 13 20:53:31 (nokia AV) also refer to http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPublications/Attachments/36/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf Feb 13 20:55:33 Yeah read those, looks like i2c is not available there (though I have a bus-pirate so I could just check it, haven't gotten around that far yet though) Feb 13 20:56:04 http://dangerousprototypes.com/bus-pirate-manual/ Feb 13 20:56:25 There is atleast 2 different protocols for the headset buttons Feb 13 20:56:47 Evening, all Feb 13 20:56:48 and the one that is fancier causes audible distortion to the audio in headphones :) Feb 13 20:58:15 * Arif hands ShadowJK a bluetooth headset Feb 13 20:58:45 hello, ihad a problem with my wifi Feb 13 20:58:59 what's that crap? 'how to install skype on n900, how to install facebook on n900, how to install google talk on n900'... let's maybe add "how to install wifi/hw kb/camera/charger on n900"? Feb 13 20:59:17 wtf dude chill out... Oo Feb 13 20:59:22 lol Feb 13 20:59:36 Arif, I haven't been able to find any decent ones Feb 13 20:59:51 Arif, 3.5mm output, 10h battery life, pause button Feb 13 20:59:53 charger howto should be the best one :) Feb 13 20:59:57 i can't even get it to respond long enough for me to click the 'replay' button in the youtube video Feb 13 21:00:17 I use normal headphones anyway Feb 13 21:00:32 over 3g i can download from ovi-store, but not over wifi Feb 13 21:00:36 any idea? Feb 13 21:00:54 I can't listen to internet radio over wifi but I can on 3G Feb 13 21:00:58 =D Feb 13 21:01:14 my microb is screwed up. how do I do something like reinstall microb? Feb 13 21:01:19 same problem here .. :( like typ3 Feb 13 21:01:32 lingling92 freak Feb 13 21:02:44 geneven: I would try blowing away ~/.microb Feb 13 21:03:14 ShadowJK: my sony isn't that bad Feb 13 21:03:15 err Feb 13 21:03:20 ~/.mozilla Feb 13 21:03:31 hi all Feb 13 21:03:38 sers Feb 13 21:03:44 hey Feb 13 21:04:43 thanks for the suggestion speedevil i,ll try it Feb 13 21:05:02 geneven: screwed up how? Feb 13 21:05:26 anyone knows a pptp vpn client? Feb 13 21:05:31 It will of course nuke bookmarks Feb 13 21:06:05 whenever i go to a link in talk i just get two lines Feb 13 21:06:33 saying reset and a link Feb 13 21:06:37 does the creator of worldtv99 ever come here? Feb 13 21:07:51 so i can't read maemo threads :) Feb 13 21:08:07 Arif, no. Feb 13 21:08:13 aw Feb 13 21:08:17 he needs to fix it :P Feb 13 21:08:23 Arif, contact him on Talk. Feb 13 21:08:28 I did Feb 13 21:08:30 waiting for a reply Feb 13 21:08:36 >:D Feb 13 21:09:07 i'm not worried about mookmarks Feb 13 21:09:20 say bookmarks Feb 13 21:09:49 bye Feb 13 21:10:04 I hope that guy doesn't make it a habit of coming here. <_< Feb 13 21:10:54 * Arif hands GeneralAntilles an auto answering bot Feb 13 21:11:12 GeneralAntilles: foul mood today? :-) Feb 13 21:11:29 who owns this place anyway? Feb 13 21:11:35 I only see chanserv with op Feb 13 21:11:35 :p Feb 13 21:11:39 DocScrutinizer, that guy trolls Talk non-stop. Feb 13 21:11:44 ~seen jebba Feb 13 21:11:47 jebba is currently on #maemo (1d 59m 25s), last said: 'p37ff?'. Feb 13 21:11:47 eeew Feb 13 21:11:47 DocScrutinizer, little bundle of negativity. Feb 13 21:12:00 DocScrutinizer, constant thorn in my side for the past two years. ;) Feb 13 21:12:17 ooh that's long for sure Feb 13 21:12:36 Arif, maemo.org Feb 13 21:12:41 Arif, which essentially means X-Fade. Feb 13 21:12:44 you'll get a lot of n00bs now the N900 is out ;) Feb 13 21:12:47 So don't get on his bad side. *g* Feb 13 21:13:05 * Arif hides Feb 13 21:14:03 Arif: /msg chanserv access #maemo list Feb 13 21:14:46 I didn't know users could see that Feb 13 21:14:46 :D Feb 13 21:15:06 i like GeneralAntilles' foul moods Feb 13 21:15:22 hmm Feb 13 21:15:39 anyone know how to extract/look through the crash reporter files? Feb 13 21:24:17 does someone have any idea when fixed version of dataplan monitor is coming out? Feb 13 21:25:21 really annoying to see that i've downloaded "-1373860380.000 B" Feb 13 21:26:01 you leecher =o Feb 13 21:26:47 considering it should be fixable by just casting the value to correct size uint you could just patch it yourself with the SDK Feb 13 21:27:29 ha! I have no idea what you just said Feb 13 21:27:47 Arif: then consider study some programming Feb 13 21:27:55 Ew, no Feb 13 21:28:06 yeah.. but considering that if it's fixable just by doing that, why doesn't the author do it Feb 13 21:28:09 * SpeedEvil tries astrophotography on the n900 for giggles. Feb 13 21:28:10 I did for 2 years in high school Feb 13 21:28:22 details like unsigned integers are a bit eww indeed Feb 13 21:29:10 probably the author is doing other things as well and can't be bothered to go trough the release process for a cosmetic fix only Feb 13 21:29:11 I also found out something just as boring called SQL Feb 13 21:29:12 :P Feb 13 21:29:24 SpeedEvil, fireworks can be seen on the n900 camera.. auroras not :/ Feb 13 21:29:41 N900 is (finally) ordered. :D Feb 13 21:29:57 it will arrive in... around 1 month. Feb 13 21:30:00 lol Feb 13 21:30:07 you have some weird postal service there Feb 13 21:30:12 ShadowJK: I'm trying averaging to see if I can pull out a starfield - well - bright moving stars Feb 13 21:30:14 still, it's ordered and the wait is finally over! :D Feb 13 21:30:23 Arif, no Feb 13 21:30:24 Where are you again FIQ? Feb 13 21:30:35 but it were no N900's left anywhere Feb 13 21:30:42 SpeedEvil, I tried with imagemagick's composite with ADD or something... Feb 13 21:30:43 did you order it from deal extreme or something? Feb 13 21:30:43 ;p Feb 13 21:30:47 SpeedEvil, swe Feb 13 21:31:03 I suspect you need to record complete blackness too to get a noise profile Feb 13 21:31:03 Kuriiri, Arif if you think signed vs unsigned is eww, then the dirty details of floating point are really going to mess you up Feb 13 21:31:19 ShadowJK: it's not especially great - and will be more of a feat of image processing than actually getting a usable optical result out Feb 13 21:31:29 hm Feb 13 21:31:32 because some pixels are consistently brighter than other pixels, and that consistent noise should be possible to filter out Feb 13 21:31:40 that too, yes. Feb 13 21:31:47 mashiara: it's just that now everyone has to fix it by himself Feb 13 21:31:52 mashiara, yes, the weather is nice here o.o; Feb 13 21:32:00 and there is also bugreport about it Feb 13 21:32:09 and no comment from author at all Feb 13 21:32:14 i've not so much linux experience (but i'm not a completly noob, I've used ubuntu for some months), guess N900 will be pretty easy to use anyway? :p Feb 13 21:32:27 i don't think i will have problems at all Feb 13 21:32:39 no you won't Feb 13 21:32:41 I don't Feb 13 21:32:51 ah, just what i though then. :) Feb 13 21:32:53 and I have no idea what mashiara is on about :D Feb 13 21:32:56 ShadowJK: anyway - currently on picture 13 - PNGs - of 200 brightframes Feb 13 21:33:06 what where ? Feb 13 21:33:13 * mashiara is lost in the woods Feb 13 21:33:31 your program talk gibberish from just above Feb 13 21:33:35 =P Feb 13 21:33:39 hello, anyone knows an other openvpn-client for n900 than "openvpn"? Feb 13 21:33:49 are ovi maps version numbers consistent regarding Symbian vs. Maemo? Feb 13 21:33:58 no Feb 13 21:34:02 they're not Feb 13 21:34:10 Tanuva, it's different software Feb 13 21:34:14 not a port Feb 13 21:34:31 oh... I just had to fix again other peoples mistakes with floating point numbers a few days back Feb 13 21:34:35 SpeedEvil: awesome Feb 13 21:34:37 there's also ovi maps on the web, which is different from s60 ovi maps and maemo ovi maps Feb 13 21:34:49 flaoting point is not the same as decimal Feb 13 21:34:55 okay, so I'm not going to worry because of having maps 1.01 instead of 3.0 :) Feb 13 21:35:16 the maemo one doesn't have voice though Feb 13 21:35:18 =p Feb 13 21:35:22 DocScrutinizer: I don't really expect it to work - but... :) Feb 13 21:35:27 SpeedEvil: how will you do the img processing? Feb 13 21:35:32 anyways if the author of the dataplan monitor is nowhere to be seen one could always fork the project Feb 13 21:35:43 and it calculated a strange route some days ago, too... Feb 13 21:35:44 (supposing the sources are available but I would think so) Feb 13 21:35:51 can't someone else take the source, fix it, and release it :P Feb 13 21:36:32 that someone else would have to be someone who cares (for example because they have the same problem) Feb 13 21:37:08 I think the counts reported in ifconfig wrap around at 4gig Feb 13 21:37:12 (too) Feb 13 21:37:36 shadowjk: this value comes from gconf Feb 13 21:37:44 ah Feb 13 21:38:03 though It seesm gconf doesn't have concept of unsigned integer anyway Feb 13 21:38:11 SpeedEvil: probably even with a good syncronous stand you still want to do some sort of antijitter. And you need a datatype for the img data that allows adding 200 png without overruns Feb 13 21:38:14 but it seems the integet type is "large enough" Feb 13 21:39:41 damn I'm typoing a lot lately... Feb 13 21:40:56 SpeedEvil: btw antijitter is a good thing as it also eliminates some of the atmospheric distort Feb 13 21:41:50 SpeedEvil: maybe try to adjust each image for a bright star to be same pos pixel-wise Feb 13 21:42:30 if he can see any stars at all with just one image Feb 13 21:42:52 ~karma fiq Feb 13 21:42:52 fiq has karma of 1 Feb 13 21:43:05 ~karma Arif Feb 13 21:43:06 arif has neutral karma Feb 13 21:43:10 yay Feb 13 21:43:11 what? Feb 13 21:43:17 ~karma wazd Feb 13 21:43:17 wazd has karma of 1 Feb 13 21:43:26 wazd++ Feb 13 21:43:28 yup. otherwise he needs to substract the current immage from the interim result and move to minimize the sigma over whole pict Feb 13 21:43:36 ~karma wazd Feb 13 21:43:36 wazd has karma of 1 Feb 13 21:43:39 :) Feb 13 21:43:45 * Arif wants karma too Feb 13 21:43:46 ;( Feb 13 21:43:48 then add current pict after moving Feb 13 21:43:58 Arif++ Feb 13 21:44:02 yay! Feb 13 21:44:06 or something Feb 13 21:44:16 * Tanuva doesn't need no karma Feb 13 21:44:18 *evilgrin* Feb 13 21:44:26 * Arif throws a quince at Tanuva Feb 13 21:44:33 ~karma tanuva Feb 13 21:44:33 tanuva has neutral karma Feb 13 21:44:55 tanuva-- Feb 13 21:45:01 ~karma tanuva Feb 13 21:45:01 tanuva has neutral karma Feb 13 21:45:07 ~karma tanuva Feb 13 21:45:09 * DocScrutinizer sighs Feb 13 21:45:45 :D Feb 13 21:46:03 :shifty: Feb 13 21:46:05 DocScrutinizer: fixed mount. Simply trying avg(darkframes)-avg(lightframes) Feb 13 21:46:36 hm.. what? Feb 13 21:46:49 what are dark frames and what are light frames in this context? Feb 13 21:46:50 err yes. what? Feb 13 21:48:30 Goodnight all! Feb 13 21:49:58 is there an english version of this channel? :p Feb 13 21:50:15 who needs that? Feb 13 21:50:34 knowing what people are talking about would be nice Feb 13 21:50:34 ;p Feb 13 21:50:44 light and dark frames of course! Feb 13 21:50:49 :) Feb 13 21:51:11 TMo and #maemo are both a bit tech-heavy Feb 13 21:51:26 I guess #maemo-n00bs would not gather much following... Feb 13 21:51:35 I'd be the only one there Feb 13 21:51:36 ={ Feb 13 21:52:22 Probably with segregating like that is that people with the knowledge and skills generally avoid the n00bzone. Feb 13 21:52:45 thats why good people like you hang out at both Feb 13 21:53:20 and can point those that avoid n00bzone in general there when someone actually has an interesting question Feb 13 21:53:43 hmm Feb 13 21:54:09 I seem to have 6 crash reports since I installed the crash reporter yesterday Feb 13 21:54:51 Arif, browserd? Feb 13 21:54:54 no Feb 13 21:54:59 media player Feb 13 21:55:04 ah Feb 13 21:55:23 vme thought this chan would be the noob zone X-P Feb 13 21:55:46 I guess my problem will be fixed in Maemo 6 too Feb 13 21:55:47 :D Feb 13 21:56:01 N900-typo :) Feb 13 21:57:03 it seems colloguy doesn't care where you right-click to close, it always closes the active tab... Feb 13 21:57:28 hmm Feb 13 21:57:34 s/colloguy/colloquy/ Feb 13 21:57:36 mashiara meant: it seems colloquy doesn't care where you right-click to close, it always closes the active tab... Feb 13 21:57:45 s/vme/\/me/ Feb 13 21:58:07 Arif, found the relevent bugzilla bug for that then? Feb 13 21:58:18 I filed a bug :p Feb 13 21:58:47 For media player crashing? Put the bug # in the extra info you can add when stuff crashes Feb 13 21:58:51 in crash-reporter Feb 13 21:59:08 I just had a "report crashes" button Feb 13 21:59:10 though I think it needs a reboot after installing crash-reporter before the popup with comments starts working Feb 13 21:59:10 and then it sent them Feb 13 22:00:20 I just added the file to the bugreport instead Feb 13 22:00:23 lets see what happens ;P Feb 13 22:00:34 heay all Feb 13 22:00:49 ohai Feb 13 22:03:27 help: looking for channel dedicated to rtcomm Feb 13 22:05:12 help: looking for channel dedicated to rtcomm Feb 13 22:05:18 pliz Feb 13 22:06:01 IZY, most of the relevant people hang out here. Feb 13 22:06:03 /join rtcomm Feb 13 22:06:08 :p Feb 13 22:06:16 IZY, but usually on weekdays and during European working and evening hours. Feb 13 22:06:30 ok Feb 13 22:06:33 thx a lot Feb 13 22:06:42 Robot101 is a good target. Feb 13 22:07:03 no such channel Feb 13 22:07:12 I got in response Feb 13 22:25:57 hm. Feb 13 22:28:07 * Shapeshifter discovered today how to render the n900 unusable real quick: unpack a 7z file. Feb 13 22:29:28 eh Feb 13 22:29:49 what prog does 7z Feb 13 22:30:17 pupnik_: don't remember the name. I just did apt-cache search 7z and installed something that did it Feb 13 22:30:26 had to unpack SNES roms ;) Feb 13 22:30:42 proclipusa.com finaly has a n900 in car cradle Feb 13 22:33:44 * GeneralAntilles wishes for some chocolate. Feb 13 22:34:12 * Arif has some chocolate Feb 13 22:35:52 ...why does everyone selling their N900 have to start a topic on the forum Feb 13 22:35:53 :p Feb 13 22:36:29 lol Feb 13 22:36:57 there should be a subforum for that Feb 13 22:37:08 /dev/null Feb 13 22:37:12 hah Feb 13 22:37:24 or at least a merge function for moderators Feb 13 22:38:19 we'd get a 400 page thread Feb 13 22:38:25 like the N900 mod thread Feb 13 22:38:39 there IS a subforum for selling stuff.. Feb 13 22:39:08 It's attention whoring. Feb 13 22:39:50 it's the only newish device that can stream my TV card so I didn't have much choice ;( Feb 13 22:40:20 anyone here is a slashdot reader and knows how to make slashdot's pages more readable? Feb 13 22:40:39 simoneb_, i think you need nuclear warheads for that Feb 13 22:41:02 Or maybe you could just peel safety stickers off of everything and the idiots die out by themselves Feb 13 22:41:07 will they come with PR1.2? Feb 13 22:41:42 ShadowJK: i'm afraid i didn't get the last one Feb 13 22:42:01 simoneb_, RSS? Feb 13 22:42:12 The best way to make slashdot comments readable is to kill the idiots that write them ;-) Feb 13 22:42:48 bef0rd: yes, i use it all the time to read the articles, but the comments page is not very well designed Feb 13 22:43:51 simoneb_: Start a thread demanding the ponies theme was brought back? Feb 13 22:44:43 simoneb_: if you have an account you can disable the new D2 comment system and use the old one Feb 13 22:45:07 there is a toggle for "enable dynamic discussions" Feb 13 22:52:04 hola Feb 13 22:53:20 * SpeedEvil fails basic shell. How do I get the first filename matching into a variable. *png - say. Feb 13 22:54:36 SpeedEvil: | head ? Feb 13 22:55:22 SpeedEvil: ls *png | head -n 1 Feb 13 22:55:27 That seems so broken, that's obbious - but tehre should be an easy way to do this Feb 13 22:55:56 looks working to me Feb 13 22:56:04 SpeedEvil: "first" how? Feb 13 22:56:18 SpeedEvil: if you need a sorted list, you need to sort it Feb 13 22:56:47 well just add | sort ... Feb 13 22:57:03 simoneb_: if he wants alphabetically... but easier to use --sort=foo Feb 13 22:57:19 firstpng="$(ls *.png --sort=time | head -n 1)" Feb 13 22:57:22 uh, i just memorized sort -k Feb 13 22:57:41 anyway --sort would do better Feb 13 22:57:43 I don't care. Feb 13 22:57:53 I just want any one file in the list that * generates. Feb 13 22:57:57 no enca or cstocs for maemo? Feb 13 22:57:59 I don't care about the order. Feb 13 22:58:07 for f in *.png; do foo.... ? Feb 13 22:58:14 SpeedEvil: doesn't head do what you need? Feb 13 22:59:17 echo *png | read Feb 13 22:59:49 Can the N900 be used without the SIM/phone part of it? Feb 13 22:59:57 yes Feb 13 23:00:03 but not for normal calls Feb 13 23:00:04 yes - however I assumed shell must have some way to break it apart. Feb 13 23:00:09 MikeJB: yes. Feb 13 23:00:21 and the phone interface can be used to skype over wifi? Feb 13 23:00:27 yes Feb 13 23:00:32 hmm... Feb 13 23:01:00 the skype client doesnt support file transfer Feb 13 23:01:03 and you can happily watch movies and play games and use console and have your computer in your pocket wherever you are Feb 13 23:01:07 and how much does it cost to have a skype phone number? Feb 13 23:01:21 but the phone interface just helps immensely with talking to normal ppl Feb 13 23:01:28 it's pretty useless without a SIM if you don't have wifi though Feb 13 23:01:33 x) Feb 13 23:01:59 MikeJB: you can check it on skype's website, however, should cost as a outgoing skype call, iirc Feb 13 23:02:02 you can still launch angry birds! Feb 13 23:02:15 no you can't! it's not installed ! Feb 13 23:02:24 SpeedEvil: you'll probably find some fancy shellvar substitution like ${fn:(*png# )} Feb 13 23:02:55 I'm starting to get annoyed that the N900 doesn't auto disconnect from the internet... Feb 13 23:02:55 MikeJB, just get a cheap sim card which offers you a dataplan and SMS stuff and it really expands the scope easily Feb 13 23:03:17 Arif, turn it on? Feb 13 23:03:20 It's in settings Feb 13 23:03:23 install it! Feb 13 23:03:28 Either way, it's supposed to be an always-on device. Feb 13 23:03:34 DocScrutinizer: ueah - I'll just use awk. :) Feb 13 23:03:51 it connects on demand, but when I'm done using it it stays connected to whatever :) Feb 13 23:04:06 I don't get through a full day apparently when it is ;o Feb 13 23:04:07 Turn on the idle timeout in settings. Feb 13 23:05:00 Arif: put automatic wifi disconnection in crontab Feb 13 23:05:15 GeneralAntilles: i don't seem to have any "idle timeout"... where do you see it? Feb 13 23:05:36 yeah I can't find it either Feb 13 23:05:47 I have it set to always ask Feb 13 23:05:51 lcuk: In the US, "sim cards" and "cheap" are antonyms Feb 13 23:05:51 DocScrutinizer51: your examples would fail on a filename containing spaces Feb 13 23:05:55 and that's the only option :P Feb 13 23:06:04 Hrm, did they take it out of Maemo 5? Feb 13 23:06:34 there's an uato connect and a search interval option Feb 13 23:06:39 Guess so. Feb 13 23:06:40 MikeJB, whatever, its just amazing to have it there as a backup Feb 13 23:06:41 Nevermind, then. Feb 13 23:06:48 skype wont work if you arent on wifi Feb 13 23:07:02 mwkn needs more sub-editors Feb 13 23:07:07 Time for one of you useless dolts to volunteer. Feb 13 23:07:15 luke-jr: yep. but then again they'll fail in general as it was mostly noise to show a direction Feb 13 23:07:17 when i start a dbus connection with osso_get_dbus_connection() .... do i need to stop/dealloc it? (how?) Feb 13 23:07:39 maemo needs more news Feb 13 23:07:43 GeneralAntilles, thats a really good way to enlist help Feb 13 23:08:05 maemo needs more Nokia love Feb 13 23:08:12 get revdkathy on it Feb 13 23:08:17 Arif, like what Feb 13 23:08:32 paid ovi store Feb 13 23:08:38 I want that angry birds pack :D Feb 13 23:08:43 +level Feb 13 23:08:46 ahhhh Feb 13 23:08:57 I don't care about the rest Feb 13 23:09:02 they already fix bugs anyway Feb 13 23:09:17 :) but angry birds would not exist without the rest Feb 13 23:10:06 I mean the rest of the things people keep complaining about Feb 13 23:10:11 maemo works because of the work each and every person has put in over the years Feb 13 23:10:31 well tyr to find ways to stop them complaining :p Feb 13 23:10:46 give them a crapple Feb 13 23:10:53 =P Feb 13 23:11:28 * SpeedEvil wants more levels for angrybirds. Feb 13 23:11:30 i am a little miffed engadget review called it half baked. are other phones really better? Feb 13 23:11:30 doesnt work, we tried that, GeneralAntilles hasnt stopped smiling since lol Feb 13 23:11:35 SpeedEvil, we all do Feb 13 23:11:59 i get asked daily by tracy Feb 13 23:12:10 she flutters eyelashes at me and asks ever so nicely Feb 13 23:12:10 pupnik, not really. Feb 13 23:12:20 pupnik, but they do tend to offer more . . . complete experiences. Feb 13 23:12:27 what have you tried GeneralAntilles ? Feb 13 23:12:39 whatever you call complete Feb 13 23:12:48 lcuk: ***'d everything. Some are deeply annoying.. Feb 13 23:13:09 SpeedEvil, nicely done Feb 13 23:13:19 i thought you were swearing at me for a moment till i realised Feb 13 23:13:34 pupnik, lots in passing, little else intensely. Feb 13 23:13:56 Nokia has a tendency to sort of toss features out there whether or not they're actually working Feb 13 23:14:07 Which is great fun for us, but tends to irritate normal users. Feb 13 23:15:23 I found out today that the FM transmitter sends the artist/album/title Feb 13 23:15:25 GeneralAntilles, examples Feb 13 23:15:30 :D Feb 13 23:15:47 lcuk, GSM. Feb 13 23:16:15 mm? Feb 13 23:16:19 5357? Feb 13 23:16:22 Phone functionality. Feb 13 23:16:37 Lack of USSD, per-user ringtones, that sort of stuff. Feb 13 23:16:58 pupnik, I don't think the term is entirely inaccurate Feb 13 23:17:08 I'd be very annoyed by the lack of USSD if I was in Turkey... Feb 13 23:17:08 per user ringtones would indeed be cool Feb 13 23:17:08 pupnik, but it's disingenuous to the real intent. Feb 13 23:17:21 "In progress" is much more reasonable than "half baked" Feb 13 23:17:27 they would have to be stored on the contact card i assume Feb 13 23:17:32 Since the point is to involve the community in development. Feb 13 23:17:36 arif should be fixed with next release Feb 13 23:17:49 Why would you apply the term "half baked" to somebody following release early, release often. Feb 13 23:17:56 I can wait :) Feb 13 23:17:58 hey woglinde Feb 13 23:18:02 and there's the USSD applet anyway Feb 13 23:18:14 that's why I love this device :P Feb 13 23:18:38 arif how long have you had device Feb 13 23:18:44 hmm Feb 13 23:18:51 since this Tuesday Feb 13 23:18:56 Arif, that's the point. Feb 13 23:19:30 if I didn't have such a dislike for programming I'd probably be writing stuff too Feb 13 23:19:38 The community can contribute to the platform. Feb 13 23:19:44 We're not at the mercy of the vendor. Feb 13 23:20:01 GeneralAntilles: we are, to a degree Feb 13 23:20:28 not as bad as iphone users though Feb 13 23:20:33 N900 significantly less though Feb 13 23:20:33 which the n900 is compared to a lot Feb 13 23:20:35 lcuk: see backscroll! search for X-RINGTONE Feb 13 23:21:01 DocScrutinizer, boil it into a wiki page, give as much info from the discussion as possible Feb 13 23:21:05 and talk more about it Feb 13 23:21:21 this key thingy doesn't work: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php Feb 13 23:21:42 (I've been trying all day :-) Feb 13 23:21:48 sandman, try left clicking Feb 13 23:22:07 haha Feb 13 23:22:19 try again lcuk ;) Feb 13 23:22:27 server down o_O Feb 13 23:22:30 look my nic Feb 13 23:22:53 me kicks xchat Feb 13 23:23:00 sandsmark, Feb 13 23:23:03 ^ Feb 13 23:23:07 :) Feb 13 23:23:09 * lcuk is tired Feb 13 23:23:43 lcuk: :-P Feb 13 23:23:43 lcuk me too Feb 13 23:24:58 but meh, I need that key :( Feb 13 23:25:10 silly nokia Feb 13 23:25:39 * DocScrutinizer51 just finished breakfast. Optimized as in today's and tomorrow's breakfast at once Feb 13 23:26:18 DocScrutinizer, nice idea, you could try that with breakfast and dinner in the same bowl :p Feb 13 23:27:45 * DocScrutinizer51 burrrrp Feb 13 23:27:48 i always have breakfast and lunch all at once Feb 13 23:28:02 that is, when i wake up past 1pm Feb 13 23:28:26 that's called brunch Feb 13 23:28:59 im just amazed at n900 Feb 13 23:29:06 I invented brinner Feb 13 23:29:42 do you guys think it should have slid open one more row for a 4 row keyboard? Feb 13 23:29:57 i think the kbd is really good tbh Feb 13 23:31:08 pupnik: it'd be even better with that 4th row Feb 13 23:31:26 pupnik, but then your thumbs are farther from the touchscreen. Feb 13 23:32:31 my finger covers 3 keys at once Feb 13 23:32:34 so it's hard to use it.... Feb 13 23:33:07 Hey, I'm having a small problem with xchat. Feb 13 23:33:08 Arif: There is a device on the market to help. Feb 13 23:33:12 having a "&" key would be a nice starter Feb 13 23:33:32 bluetooth keyboard? ;P Feb 13 23:33:37 really... why doesn't it have a & key? Feb 13 23:33:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNE8RV-7mNA Feb 13 23:33:51 * GeneralAntilles has one. Feb 13 23:33:51 geneven_: ? Feb 13 23:33:54 I use the stylus and the on screen keyboard Feb 13 23:33:56 it's easier Feb 13 23:34:07 Thumbs are faster than stylus on the onscreen. Feb 13 23:34:15 Try the corners of your thumbs Feb 13 23:34:15 not if you press 3 keys at once Feb 13 23:34:21 :D Feb 13 23:34:24 Arif, then you're doing it wrong. Feb 13 23:34:28 Arif: just a matter of practice, imho Feb 13 23:34:33 Indeed Feb 13 23:34:37 but I only have it for a few days Feb 13 23:34:37 hey speedevil, getting rid of .mozilla solved my other prob, thanks. Feb 13 23:34:40 maybe I'll get used to it Feb 13 23:34:41 i have big hands too Feb 13 23:34:47 It took me a week or two to adjust Feb 13 23:35:17 also I have no way to enter þ, ý, ð, ü, ö, and ç on the physical keyboard :P Feb 13 23:35:30 now nickserv is automatically logging me on as geneven and when I go on with xchat it won't let me really on because it thinks I am already there Feb 13 23:35:32 GeneralAntilles: there are things like ' vs , I still miss frequently Feb 13 23:35:49 Arif: wow, i can't see one of that characters :P Feb 13 23:35:56 lol Feb 13 23:37:32 geneven_: that's a rather fuzzy description of your problem, and an inaccurate one as well Feb 13 23:38:35 doc, it's not totally inaccurate, it reflects my fuzzy understanding. We live in a fuzzy world, ya know. Feb 13 23:39:10 geneven_: nickserv *never* authenticates you automatically Feb 13 23:39:53 doc, I beg your pardon, a program on my n900 authomatically uses nickserv to authenticate geneven automatically Feb 13 23:40:03 perform/ Feb 13 23:40:05 ? Feb 13 23:40:08 x) Feb 13 23:40:22 At least, I get a message from nickserve saying I am authenticated, is it lying? Feb 13 23:40:28 if you reconnect and your former nick is 'occupied' then you need to free it via /msg nickserv ghost "former-nick" "yourpassword" Feb 13 23:40:36 geneven_: your irssi client can be automated to do that Feb 13 23:40:42 then you can use that nick Feb 13 23:41:00 I'm not using an irssi client, pupnick Feb 13 23:41:08 thanks, doc Feb 13 23:42:29 I already got a message saying geneven was ghosted, how do I get back on as me? Feb 13 23:42:45 pupnik: I automated my xchat client to do all that :-P Feb 13 23:42:47 i want a maemo terminal without that scrollbar on the right hand side Feb 13 23:43:33 change your nick to ghosted one. authenticate with nickserv (if you4e not yet) Feb 13 23:46:20 I am trying slash NICK geneven password and it doesn't seem to be working. Feb 13 23:46:58 but geneven_ is greyed out now so that's progress :) Feb 13 23:47:18 geneven_: /ns id "password" Feb 13 23:47:45 assuming your present nick is grouped Feb 13 23:47:52 otherwise: Feb 13 23:48:15 geneven_: /ns id "newNick" "password" Feb 13 23:49:28 changing nick via /NICK doesn't take a password Feb 13 23:49:32 ok, now I am identified for geneven Feb 13 23:50:26 but I still see myself as geneven_ Feb 13 23:50:50 geneven_: /nick geneven Feb 13 23:51:35 doesn't change how I am displayed in xchat Feb 13 23:52:31 here it works Feb 13 23:52:38 There's already a "geneven" Feb 13 23:52:53 who is also logged in to "geneven" Feb 13 23:52:56 but I'm almost 100% sure that's me Feb 13 23:53:21 No no no. "Activate FULL version for 1.99$". Feb 13 23:53:23 from my N900; I'm on a laptop now Feb 13 23:53:27 ah Feb 13 23:53:36 geneven_: you need t GHOST that geneven prior to claiming that name! Feb 13 23:53:40 Jophish_n900, what's that? Feb 13 23:54:08 I did ghost it and got a message saying it was ghosted, but maybe the n900 put it back! Feb 13 23:54:15 I'll try again Feb 13 23:54:26 ghost geneven zugzwang Feb 13 23:54:39 ok Feb 13 23:54:54 and change your password... Feb 13 23:54:55 ok, it worked, thanks Feb 13 23:55:01 geneven_: it's generally a bad idea to use same nick on concurrently active clients. won't work Feb 13 23:55:15 geneven: best change your password asap btw Feb 13 23:55:33 lol Feb 13 23:55:36 naah Feb 13 23:55:37 I didn't deliberately tell the n900 to do that Feb 13 23:55:45 nobody reads this. Feb 13 23:56:00 indeed, good thing I have trash passwords I use Feb 13 23:56:03 first one to steal the account Feb 13 23:56:06 :p Feb 13 23:56:13 I don't understand the way this conversations/im widget is supposed to work Feb 13 23:56:28 it shows new messages? Feb 13 23:56:37 it's not showing the new messages and it appears to want me to click through all 300+ messages that I've already seen in the conversations app Feb 13 23:56:52 is there another way to mark them "read"? Feb 13 23:57:04 I think it's the conversations thing is also the thing that logs me in automatically Feb 13 23:57:19 * SpeedEvil ponders simply command-line widget with tail xchats logs Feb 13 23:57:39 omg Feb 13 23:58:30 bye, thanks again Feb 13 23:59:44 I wonder if the password is still the same.. Feb 13 23:59:46 ShadowJK, the app on http://maemo.org Feb 14 00:00:20 apologies if I have sent this more than once, bit of connection troubles. Feb 14 00:00:42 hey, how write [,] and | in the n900? Feb 14 00:01:24 lopz, the blue arrow then press ctrl. Feb 14 00:02:03 blue arrown, tehn control, then release control and release blue Feb 14 00:02:06 what app? Feb 14 00:02:21 SpeedEvil, they're sticky. Feb 14 00:02:55 Jophish_n900, ShadowJK thanks ;) Feb 14 00:03:11 GeneralAntilles: not for me Feb 14 00:03:30 SpeedEvil, weird Feb 14 00:03:39 hang on - getting n900 from outside Feb 14 00:03:46 forgot about it... Feb 14 00:03:57 huh Feb 14 00:03:58 ShadowJK, hoopsfrenzy Feb 14 00:04:57 GeneralAntilles: yup - just mashed both buttons at the same time ten times - sym does not popup Feb 14 00:05:01 I'm hoping that that doesn't become commonplace, and the majority of apps for maemo can remain free (speech) Feb 14 00:05:30 SpeedEvil, very odd. Feb 14 00:05:42 GeneralAntilles: Same with sym press - roll onto ctro - release sym - release control Feb 14 00:05:52 HoopsFrenzy is open source, no? Feb 14 00:06:59 GeneralAntilles: or with the other way round. Only way it works is press and hold blue - press fn - release fn - release blue Feb 14 00:07:14 uk keyb Feb 14 00:07:32 use the onscreen keyboard! Feb 14 00:07:43 Arif, they broke it in PR1.1. Feb 14 00:07:51 they did? Feb 14 00:07:57 what exactly :? Feb 14 00:08:10 I didn't have the chance to use 42.11 Feb 14 00:08:35 Gestures don't work anymore Feb 14 00:08:44 It has the stupid iPhone keyboard behavior. Feb 14 00:09:02 * SpeedEvil never knew about gestures. Feb 14 00:09:08 hmm Feb 14 00:09:11 * SpeedEvil stabs stupid documentation. Feb 14 00:09:17 * SpeedEvil stabs it again. Feb 14 00:09:33 That's the sort of shit you put in a 'getting started' video Feb 14 00:09:41 GeneralAntilles, I stand corrected. I may as well just compile it myself. Feb 14 00:09:56 * Arif hands SpeedEvil an N900 manual Feb 14 00:12:23 gestures??? o.O Feb 14 00:12:58 * MohammadAG_ points SpeedEvil to /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/User\ Guides/ Feb 14 00:12:59 Swipe up/down/left/right after tapping a letter for shift, backspace. Feb 14 00:13:21 GAN900, those were removed afaik Feb 14 00:13:36 MohammadAG, yes, in PR1.1 Feb 14 00:13:40 for onscreen kbd?? Feb 14 00:13:43 Which is my complaint. Feb 14 00:13:54 DocScrutinizer51, yeah Feb 14 00:14:13 right was space. left was backspace, up was shift, down was enter Feb 14 00:14:52 that sounds useful Feb 14 00:14:57 why did they screw it up Feb 14 00:14:58 :D Feb 14 00:15:12 cause they're nokia Feb 14 00:15:18 Because stupid Nokia UI people <3 iPhone. Feb 14 00:15:31 nobody loves the iphone Feb 14 00:15:35 stop lying ! :( Feb 14 00:15:53 Arif, apparently a lot of people do Feb 14 00:15:59 though it's mostly a fad Feb 14 00:16:31 I'd love it too if it did what I wanted... Feb 14 00:16:33 ~lart iphone loving nokians Feb 14 00:16:33 * infobot acting on orders from an unspecified client drags iphone loving nokians into court suing for $200 million Feb 14 00:17:04 hrm, portrait mode is actually vaguely usable w/ google's olympic landing page Feb 14 00:17:27 call it fanboyism but i'd never hold an iPhone in public even if it was given to me for free Feb 14 00:17:30 all doom arises from those idiots Feb 14 00:17:33 too bad my mac isn't usable Feb 14 00:18:01 Free? gimme! Feb 14 00:18:20 I'm a bit jealous of all those games they have ;( Feb 14 00:18:31 'does it blend?' Feb 14 00:18:42 convinced someone not to buy an iphone and buy an n900 cause it has flash 9.4 Feb 14 00:18:48 SpeedEvil: eero worked hard to get it into the n800 help Feb 14 00:18:49 too bad the n900 dropped help Feb 14 00:18:55 he needs flash 9.4 (for obvious reasons :P) Feb 14 00:19:17 youtube? :P Feb 14 00:19:28 actually, help was awful, it's good that it's gone Feb 14 00:19:34 umm.. yeah yeah Youtube haha Feb 14 00:19:41 pr0ntube? :P Feb 14 00:19:58 I wonder if that really exists... Feb 14 00:20:18 the maemo5ui team made youtube video tutorials for various things Feb 14 00:20:19 sadly most people didn't watch them Feb 14 00:20:20 they're not bad ... probably much better than the user guides Feb 14 00:20:29 zootube does, as proven by SpeedEvil :P Feb 14 00:20:41 I was meanng the app zoutube Feb 14 00:20:46 I misremembered the name Feb 14 00:20:47 allaboutmaemo has those kinds of videos too... Feb 14 00:20:47 (though for real, don't google it) Feb 14 00:20:47 GeneralAntilles: 1.2's soft keyboard will be slightly better Feb 14 00:20:55 Please don't google it. Feb 14 00:20:55 I know SpeedEvil :) Feb 14 00:20:58 but yeah, i was upset that gestures broke in 1.1 Feb 14 00:21:06 not quite sure why they broke them eithe Feb 14 00:21:08 r Feb 14 00:21:16 What filesystem types can I format my microsd card with and have my N900 read it? Feb 14 00:21:23 SpeedEvil, when you said that last time I immediately googled it Feb 14 00:21:25 fat! Feb 14 00:21:27 blizzow: ext3, vfat Feb 14 00:21:28 only to find... well nvm Feb 14 00:21:39 ext3? Feb 14 00:21:44 ext3 is evil loonix stuff Feb 14 00:21:47 that showed up an error Feb 14 00:21:48 :o Feb 14 00:21:53 Do I have to do ext3 through my computer, or is there an mkfs binary on my n900? Feb 14 00:21:53 lol I know Feb 14 00:22:01 I couldn't find one at first glance. Feb 14 00:22:01 and vfat is evil ms stuff Feb 14 00:22:09 that works! Feb 14 00:22:13 fsck vfat. Feb 14 00:22:46 Arif, and gets corrupt when pulled out of a PS3 Feb 14 00:22:57 really? :p Feb 14 00:23:00 * Arif has no PS3 Feb 14 00:23:04 mke2fs Feb 14 00:23:09 blizzow: why would you want to do such a thing? Feb 14 00:23:12 * Arif blames Sorny Feb 14 00:23:21 Arif corrupted my filesystem on the second day Feb 14 00:23:32 timeless_mbp: I don't want ms vfat if I can help it. Feb 14 00:23:35 LOL blame MS for not allowing companies to use NTFS Feb 14 00:23:45 blizzow: why? Feb 14 00:23:52 oh Feb 14 00:24:02 mkfs.ext3 too Feb 14 00:24:03 and 4 Feb 14 00:24:04 how big is the chance of having ext4 in Maemo6? Feb 14 00:24:05 * Arif blames MS for not allowing companies to use NTFS... Feb 14 00:24:07 or ignoring the fact that ext3 exists Feb 14 00:24:14 there's the whole nnunch of mkfs.* Feb 14 00:24:20 sandman: what does it matter? Feb 14 00:24:21 * Arif is sleepy :( Feb 14 00:24:26 lotta faster Feb 14 00:24:32 i'm playing with video calls over jabber Feb 14 00:24:33 ext4 is there Feb 14 00:24:34 * MohammadAG_ blames MS for not updating their systems with ext3 support Feb 14 00:24:37 and i've got setup like that Feb 14 00:24:48 blizzow: use ext2 Feb 14 00:24:51 sandman: and faster - well - flash has speed demands of its own on ordering Feb 14 00:24:57 gtalk in gmail -> my jabber server on jacekowski.org -> N900 Feb 14 00:25:07 and video from n900 to gmail looks nice Feb 14 00:25:17 you're a religious zealot who insists on speaking an arcane form of ancient serbogreek instead of the lingua franca? Feb 14 00:25:18 but video from gmail to n900 sucks a lot Feb 14 00:25:19 sandman: can ext4 be made to work sanely on SD? Feb 14 00:25:30 the reason people use fat is that it works *everywhere* Feb 14 00:25:54 timeless_mbp: except where microsoft enforces their patent? :p Feb 14 00:25:59 luke-jr: I am really a noob on this. But when i swapped to Ext4 on my Ubuntu machine... it rocked! Feb 14 00:26:00 which means that you can plug your n900 using usb into _anything_ and get to your data Feb 14 00:26:07 * DocScrutinizer51 thought it works never and nowhere Feb 14 00:26:08 ext4 is like delayed /dev/null Feb 14 00:26:10 sandman: that's on a magnetic hard drive Feb 14 00:26:16 luke-jr: nah, those places just cost more because they have to pay :) Feb 14 00:26:17 timeless_mbp, the kitchen sink doesn't recognize it :p Feb 14 00:26:28 your kitchen sink includes a usb port? Feb 14 00:26:29 wow Feb 14 00:26:41 gimme. i'll add ancient fat support :) Feb 14 00:26:45 sandman: and ofcourse with that switch to ext4 you also lost ALL chance of a filesystem with proper integrity Feb 14 00:26:51 yeah, I charge my N900 in it Feb 14 00:27:26 redeeman: really i have not found anything bad with it.. stable as hell Feb 14 00:27:28 does your kitchensink run a propietary os? Feb 14 00:27:56 sandman: stable... unless you do any of the things that makes it break, which have been plenty in every single kernel release since ext4 was marked stable Feb 14 00:28:14 as i said Feb 14 00:28:19 ext4 is like delayed /dev/null Feb 14 00:28:19 sandman: even ext3 is not sane to use on SD cards Feb 14 00:28:32 satmd, no it runs chinook :p Feb 14 00:28:47 ext3 is not sane to use on anything Feb 14 00:28:53 redeman: might be so. As i said i am a really noob about this. I have so far not done anything to make it crash Feb 14 00:28:59 redeeman: ext3 works fine on my desktop Feb 14 00:29:01 ~nuke usb mass storage Feb 14 00:29:02 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at usb mass storage ... B☢☢M! Feb 14 00:29:03 redeeman: whats fine then? Feb 14 00:29:10 redeeman: for half a decade now, at least Feb 14 00:29:13 well xfs is just tolerable Feb 14 00:29:31 well.. lets hope for btrfs ;) Feb 14 00:29:43 or nilfs2 Feb 14 00:29:47 luke-jr: our concepts of "fine" are not the same Feb 14 00:29:55 redeeman: no data loss Feb 14 00:30:02 What's really needed is sdfs Feb 14 00:30:15 But the problem with that is that the SD algorithms all vary Feb 14 00:30:20 SpeedEvil: what's really needed is a SD API to disable the block emulation :D Feb 14 00:30:33 yeah - that too Feb 14 00:30:37 expose a mtd char device Feb 14 00:30:41 ofcourse that's never gonna come Feb 14 00:30:43 hmm.. there you have it. A filesystem for really small systems Feb 14 00:30:46 winblows doesn't support it Feb 14 00:30:47 the problem is the translation layer on flash devices Feb 14 00:30:55 sandman: eh, that's jffs2 for sure Feb 14 00:31:11 luke-jr: jffs2 is only for seriously embedded use, the newer ones are much better Feb 14 00:31:19 redeeman: Its not like xfs did not have its own share of rather scary issues. And its own memory allocation layer (which got thinner though) is kinda scary as well. Feb 14 00:31:28 sandman: roughly, the people at nokia looked around and made a decision which is hopefully best for the vast majority of potential customers Feb 14 00:31:49 There is little - sane - alternatives. Feb 14 00:31:52 if you aren't an expert, perhaps you should accept that nokia might not have made an incredibly stupid decision and just accept their choice Feb 14 00:32:05 andres: it has the basic features one needs though, unlike ext3, and it is not extremely indevelopment-unstable-datalossy as ext4 Feb 14 00:32:05 yeah, you guys are probably better knowingly than me on this stuff Feb 14 00:32:09 The only other sort-of-sane choice would be to have an underlying FS - with an indexer daemon. Feb 14 00:32:31 SpeedEvil: which requires dropping USB Mass Storage Feb 14 00:32:42 At plugin time - the FS gets mounted RO - and a daemon creates a virtual FAT drive. Feb 14 00:32:42 or at least creating a virtual hard disk image and translating Feb 14 00:32:45 redeeman: ext3 has more features than the average person needs, so definitely "basic" Feb 14 00:32:49 which is incredibly expensive Feb 14 00:32:59 timeless_mbp: I don't think it actually is. Feb 14 00:33:11 timeless_mbp: Incredibly annoying to write - sure. Feb 14 00:33:18 redeeman: with the tradeoff that there were bugs not fixed for a release because christoph hellwig was not around... Feb 14 00:33:23 SpeedEvil: afaik fat doesn't require writes happen w/in any given time interval Feb 14 00:33:35 or just ignore vfat and do the sane thing, expose a REAL fs Feb 14 00:33:37 although it's probably a good idea to do them "relatively quickly" Feb 14 00:33:46 timeless_mbp: I just doubt nokia's notion on the definition of 'potential customer' Feb 14 00:33:59 timeless_mbp: you completely emulate a FAT filesystem. Hmm. Feb 14 00:34:04 or just do USB networking and provide samba, n00b :) Feb 14 00:34:12 SpeedEvil: and i think it's vaguely legal to start grabbing clusters and building chains w/o linking them into a file right away Feb 14 00:34:24 timeless_mbp: I suppose writing to the filesystem from the other end would be nasty Feb 14 00:34:45 luke-jr: which doesn't work because windows doesn't give you usb networking out of the box Feb 14 00:34:47 timeless_mbp: practically, you'd have to do icky things on that side. - like the indexer daemon in reverse - sortof. Feb 14 00:34:51 SpeedEvil, timeless_mbp: qemu has virtual vfat code Feb 14 00:34:53 and its really nasty Feb 14 00:35:03 timeless_mbp: really? Feb 14 00:35:05 it does kinda sorta work though Feb 14 00:35:23 timeless_mbp, usual bullshit response. Feb 14 00:35:26 timeless_mbp: so fuck winblows and provide proper stuff Feb 14 00:35:30 timeless_mbp, Nokia knows best. Feb 14 00:35:39 redoh, i'm not saying it's impossible Feb 14 00:35:41 i'm just saying that you might be surprised at the interesting ways in which it will break Feb 14 00:35:42 You can't say fuck winblows in a mass-market device. Feb 14 00:35:43 and there's a difference between an emulator trying to work for hobbyist systems Feb 14 00:35:47 Hail to Nokia! ;) Feb 14 00:36:15 lol nokia sure isn't aiming for mainstream or anything close with the N900 Feb 14 00:36:28 timeless_mbp, I've long since given up trying to fight them on that, so I don't use virtual input on that. Feb 14 00:36:36 and a consumer off the self product which gets introduced into all sorts of strange real world (hostile) environments Feb 14 00:36:43 maybe Nokia should try to make us a device we can use free software on, then ship only the device and let programmers compete in reselling it configured for end users Feb 14 00:36:46 s/on that/anymore/ Feb 14 00:36:46 GAN900 meant: timeless_mbp, I've long since given up trying to fight them anymore, so I don't use virtual input on that. Feb 14 00:37:09 * GAN900 hadn't realized he dropped into another waste-of-time FAT discussion. Feb 14 00:37:26 eg, Nokia can produce skeleton generic devices and let software developers handle the final products Feb 14 00:37:32 split hardware from software development Feb 14 00:37:37 e :o Feb 14 00:37:41 redeeman: Though i saw on the forums on a poll that it was about 50/50 linux and windows users Feb 14 00:37:44 e? Feb 14 00:37:46 luke-jr: i doubt that'd be successful Feb 14 00:37:56 redeeman: oh well Feb 14 00:37:56 luke-jr: that could give the hardware a bad reputation, though Feb 14 00:37:58 That was the way it was before inside nokia, wasn't it.. Feb 14 00:38:02 sandsmark: why? Feb 14 00:38:02 luke-jr: if there's a lot of half-assed software for it Feb 14 00:38:10 * timeless_mbp kicks mbp Feb 14 00:38:13 luke-jr: just look at how much better Apple's image is than Microsoft :-) Feb 14 00:38:36 sandsmark: Nokia sells it with no software; software developers add that and sell their own brands ;p Feb 14 00:38:41 providing both hardware and software gives you greater control, and allows you to polish it much more Feb 14 00:38:44 GAN900: my fn-c stroke turns into PIPE instead of EUR. i was pleassantly surprised Feb 14 00:38:57 sandsmark: perhaps in theory, but in practice, it sucks Feb 14 00:39:12 luke-jr: not imho Feb 14 00:39:20 sandsmark: thats why microsofts mice is their most reputated product ;-) Feb 14 00:39:21 luke-jr: again, look at apple :-P Feb 14 00:39:22 sandsmark: just look at Maemo! :P Feb 14 00:39:22 lumost people aren't supposed to encourage their employers to try to go bankrupt Feb 14 00:39:23 € Feb 14 00:39:25 andres: hehe Feb 14 00:39:26 palm btw has showed what happens when you spin off your os from your phone company Feb 14 00:39:30 it worked nicely Feb 14 00:39:31 luke-jr: I blame GTK for that :-P Feb 14 00:39:33 sandman: yeah like maemo5 Feb 14 00:39:44 grr Feb 14 00:39:45 sandsmark: GTK isn't at fault for all the Maemo code insanity Feb 14 00:39:53 sandsmark: ^ Feb 14 00:39:54 luke-jr: oh yes, it spreads Feb 14 00:39:59 :-P Feb 14 00:40:03 as a "at not to do" Feb 14 00:40:13 timeless_mbp, how did you configure it like that Feb 14 00:40:15 brainrot from gtk is not all that unusal, I tihnk Feb 14 00:40:16 sandsmark: pretty sure GTK doesn't hardcode usernames Feb 14 00:40:24 meh Feb 14 00:40:38 how does aircrack-ng work on the n900 Feb 14 00:40:38 heck, even the sybian disaster demos that Feb 14 00:40:39 nokia had to *buy* symbian to fix it Feb 14 00:40:39 ? Feb 14 00:40:43 hehe Feb 14 00:40:52 timeless_mbp: Symbian sells just the software, though Feb 14 00:41:00 now that nokia sells both software and hardware, it is better Feb 14 00:41:03 which proves my point :-P Feb 14 00:41:05 timeless_mbp: rofl, are you saying symbian is fixed? what are you smoking? Feb 14 00:41:11 doubleukay: afaik, i didn't do anything Feb 14 00:41:12 i haven't had time to investigate to see if there's some strange package or new feature involved Feb 14 00:41:22 anyone else having problems with maemo.org/packages/? Feb 14 00:41:39 timing out every other page here Feb 14 00:41:57 maybe it is realated to this breaking: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php Feb 14 00:41:57 It's the time of week when everyone wants to use it, of course it's broken Feb 14 00:42:01 frals, repos down here too Feb 14 00:42:50 redjust the organizational problem Feb 14 00:42:50 i'm not saying their stack is fixed Feb 14 00:43:09 ShadowJK++ Feb 14 00:43:56 Hopefully nokia fixes silly stuff that was rumoured Feb 14 00:44:22 Like the symbian signed people having this webform that printed out a sheet of paper in one room, and then a perosn fetching it and typing it in on another compute in order to process someone's signing request Feb 14 00:44:50 lol Feb 14 00:45:02 ShadowJK: err, isn't that how you're supposed to do it? Feb 14 00:45:15 you don't want signing keys exposed to hackable computers Feb 14 00:45:37 ShadowJK: that's how german electronic tax ELSTER works :-D Feb 14 00:46:07 i'd be incredibly scared if their signing keys were on connected computers Feb 14 00:46:14 or computers which accepted usb input Feb 14 00:46:22 usb is a good carrier for virii Feb 14 00:47:06 I want the signing machine to only take punched cards. Feb 14 00:47:13 It makes for a frustrating experience when you just want to test your new build and hve to wait for some monkeys to type in stuff :-) Feb 14 00:47:16 Which are burned before reading. Feb 14 00:48:40 SpeedEvil: done correctly that'll increase the optical contrast XP Feb 14 00:54:11 SpeedEvil: how's your skyshot project? Feb 14 00:54:49 DocScrutinizer: seemingly inconclusive. Feb 14 00:55:20 DocScrutinizer: I need to try again to see if it was properly focussed on infinity Feb 14 00:55:27 some indications are it wasn't Feb 14 00:55:31 :-S Feb 14 00:56:10 no manual focus (?) Feb 14 00:56:29 I'm unsure how the focus is set Feb 14 00:56:48 nite all, sweet dreams Feb 14 00:56:55 (other than at the lowest level) Feb 14 00:58:09 lowest level means sys? Feb 14 00:58:59 no - i2c Feb 14 00:59:05 oooh Feb 14 00:59:51 very secret knowledge Feb 14 01:02:32 well- it's one of hte published datasheets for a current output DAC Feb 14 01:02:36 I think there are v4l ioctls? Feb 14 01:02:38 I don'tr of course know what drives this Feb 14 01:02:42 probably Feb 14 01:02:51 gst-streamer possibly isn't doing them Feb 14 01:03:11 tbh I even doubt this shitty autofocus has any notion of 'infinity' as a predefined setting Feb 14 01:03:33 exactly Feb 14 01:11:20 read out the focus setting on a nice daylight mountain shot, then echo $infinity >/sy/cam/focus ? Feb 14 01:12:24 so, does anybody know why video quality that comes out of gmail is so bad? Feb 14 01:12:48 cause it's gmail? Feb 14 01:12:53 +1 Feb 14 01:12:59 jacekowski, cos gmail is for mail Feb 14 01:13:15 hmm, I just tried to run apt-get update for the first time in several months on my n810 and it seems like half of the repos are down? Feb 14 01:13:24 is maemo dieing or just overloaded? Feb 14 01:13:36 #2 Feb 14 01:13:38 dead: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ Feb 14 01:14:10 esaym153, theres word that maemo repos are somewhat done in atm, if you have older n810 specific repos those might be down totally tho now. Feb 14 01:14:15 [2010-02-14 01:41:58] It's the time of week when everyone wants to use it, of course it's broken Feb 14 01:14:38 what the heck Feb 14 01:14:40 mhm Feb 14 01:14:51 how to initiate jabber video call from n900? Feb 14 01:15:07 who gives a fsck? Feb 14 01:16:17 I do Feb 14 01:16:29 giving a fuck status: presently not giving one Feb 14 01:17:18 hrr, playing hockey for 2½hrs after not doing any kind of exercise for the last year... i have a feeling the coming day or two is gonna be painful :P Feb 14 01:17:27 lol frals Feb 14 01:18:11 not like im gonna do any physical activity the coming days anyway... DOH, valentines day :P Feb 14 01:18:32 lcuk: where to get info on the repos at? Feb 14 01:18:41 I need to install some software Feb 14 01:19:34 indeed you do, ive only heard from here tho, is the stuff you want from the maemo repositories? if so, just keep trying Feb 14 01:20:58 sending to the autobuilder seems to not work as well Feb 14 01:21:34 yes, every repo on maemo.org or nokia.com sees to just give a 504, Ever tried going there on my desktop machine, same thing Feb 14 01:21:39 >:( Feb 14 01:22:36 I think Nokia should have considered other isp's than geocities as well :) Feb 14 01:22:38 anyone know if one can skype through edge on the n900? I'm looking to purchase one but don't live in a complete 3g area Feb 14 01:22:42 odd, the cover page loads (repository.maemo.org but the content doesnt Feb 14 01:23:20 edge seems a lil thin for VoIP Feb 14 01:23:36 yeah, it does but I was wondering if anyone had first hand experience... Feb 14 01:23:49 DocScrutinizer: depends on codec Feb 14 01:23:55 yep Feb 14 01:24:02 DocScrutinizer: GSM codec can run more than fine over edge Feb 14 01:24:13 actually it does, but on skype you have no clue what codec is used Feb 14 01:24:27 the latency is probably worse Feb 14 01:24:28 does Nokia just have one repo server? that is bad. They should have at least two or three for backup. Feb 14 01:24:31 it's only jutter and delays that are real problem Feb 14 01:24:31 hm, so noe one has tried it? Feb 14 01:24:36 sandman, it has akamai Feb 14 01:24:41 yep Feb 14 01:24:45 sandman: have you heard about clusters Feb 14 01:25:02 jacekowski: yeah Feb 14 01:25:10 hajmola: tbh I kicked skype off all my machines years ago Feb 14 01:25:23 it's *BAD* Feb 14 01:26:09 DocScrutinizer, well, I'm talking specifically about the n900 Feb 14 01:26:21 hajmola: i've tried it Feb 14 01:26:32 hajmola: and well, it's working Feb 14 01:26:40 all machines includes N900. Thought that's obvious Feb 14 01:27:17 jacekowski, thanks, call quality? Feb 14 01:27:28 ESPECIALLY N900. Skype prolly sucks bat as if there's no next call Feb 14 01:27:34 same shit as ussual Feb 14 01:27:46 ok Feb 14 01:28:20 i know people that use skype over mobile broadband Feb 14 01:28:38 and they are barely covered by 2g Feb 14 01:28:41 hajmola: GPRS has latencies of up to 2s though Feb 14 01:28:55 hajmola: so you might not be happy - even if it works from a bw POV Feb 14 01:29:06 and it works reasonably well Feb 14 01:29:20 SpeedEvil: it's not much worse than normall call Feb 14 01:29:55 For GPRS - the delay is ~1s-2s here. Feb 14 01:29:56 dud, that's definitely impossible Feb 14 01:30:10 I haven't tried edge Feb 14 01:30:14 3g is lots better Feb 14 01:30:14 (not much worse) Feb 14 01:32:23 yeah, alsost as low latency as HSCSD Feb 14 01:32:50 which in turn has almost same latency as GSM voice Feb 14 01:37:29 looks like my PC was a part of a botnet :) Feb 14 01:38:51 gprs is fun, I've seen icmp ping replies of 70 seconds :) Feb 14 01:41:51 yoh Feb 14 01:42:47 I've seen IRC pings stored up for 90sec on 3G as well though Feb 14 01:43:30 just 2h ago Feb 14 01:43:43 in a pub with poor coverage Feb 14 01:44:31 oh in my case it was more like "If I send UDP packets at slightly faster than it can handle I should get the full speed on the other end, right, lol" Feb 14 01:45:03 it worked very well for a little while, at some point I think the network is like "too many bytes queued, gtfo" and disconnects :( Feb 14 01:50:33 hrhrhrr Feb 14 01:51:25 you never know what carrier does to "overall ensure quality of service" Feb 14 02:06:16 Hildon App Manager only upgrades libraries when applications are upgraded, right? Feb 14 02:12:11 yes Feb 14 02:16:48 oh wow, nilfs2 seems to work now in 2.6.32 Feb 14 02:17:07 I thought it was broken, but it turned out I had booted my sheevaplug with a 3.6.31.2 kernel accidentally Feb 14 02:18:09 + Feb 14 02:34:23 ShadowJK: nilfs2 looks good in a developing state of use but how good is it in other uses? Feb 14 02:34:55 nilfs2 looks nice on sd Feb 14 02:35:28 how fast will it fill up the disc? Feb 14 02:35:53 dunno, old stuff gets removed unless you ask to keep it Feb 14 02:35:59 sorry for my noobish questions.. never heard of it before Feb 14 02:36:04 ok Feb 14 02:38:22 by default it keeps stuff around for an hour, it seems Feb 14 02:39:51 cool! It would be a good filesystem for early testing Feb 14 02:40:33 I'm mostly interested in it because it writes stuff into a giant log... almost totally sequentially all the time Feb 14 02:41:05 yeah, that could be useful Feb 14 02:41:06 (SD-type storage is extremely slow at random writes) Feb 14 02:41:53 For example when I copy a 3 gigabyte directory tree with mostly 1 - 500kbyte files onto a USB memory stick, I get about 500kbytes/sec with ext3, and 5000kbytes/sec with nilfs2 Feb 14 02:42:09 It can get much slower than that Feb 14 02:42:22 (than 10:1 slowdown) Feb 14 02:42:41 yes Feb 14 02:42:54 this device has a sequential write speed of about 20 megabytes/sec Feb 14 02:44:13 hmm.. so what is the fastest filesystem for SD. Not thinking of stability. Feb 14 02:44:20 perhaps LogFS Feb 14 02:44:37 btrfs was a bit unpredictable when I tested it (both stability and speed) Feb 14 02:45:31 hmm.. this could be something (LogFS) Feb 14 02:46:45 Just need my device to come :) Feb 14 02:47:21 thanks for the input shadow Feb 14 02:47:25 just be careful when googling nilfs Feb 14 02:47:32 ohh? Feb 14 02:47:37 ahh Feb 14 02:47:39 hahaha Feb 14 02:48:34 i bet someone got a supprise looking that up ;) Feb 14 02:50:11 hrm Feb 14 02:50:28 on the n900, the virtual keyboard works fine for maemo apps with text fields.. but how do I get it to show up for the x terminal? Feb 14 02:50:32 I can't type things like pipe symbol Feb 14 02:50:51 nevermind. Feb 14 02:57:17 * DocScrutinizer thinks google and SpeedEvil are special friends **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 14 02:59:57 2010