**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 15 02:59:57 2010 Feb 15 03:05:48 hi guys.. how do can i install python2.5-qt4-sql ? Feb 15 03:16:11 crashanddie: ! Feb 15 03:16:13 How could you Feb 15 03:18:49 crashanddie: I had no idea you were a mod on the forum. Feb 15 03:19:01 zerojay, tremble! Feb 15 03:19:42 lol Feb 15 03:21:04 zerojay: he deleted my boob picture. Feb 15 03:21:15 mmkay Feb 15 03:21:22 :( Feb 15 03:21:24 not funny. Feb 15 03:23:50 Boobies! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Starr_060228-6399_Chenopodium_oahuense.jpg Feb 15 03:26:35 I'm afraid those might not be what you think they are. Feb 15 03:26:53 Oh. They are actually boobies. Feb 15 03:29:47 lol Feb 15 03:29:57 http://konieczny.be/geekfun/jobs_unfinished_project.jpg Feb 15 03:47:35 yo Feb 15 03:47:38 WHO's the GIMP Feb 15 03:47:43 who ported Wesnoth :) Feb 15 03:47:51 I want to paypal them 5$ Feb 15 03:47:55 just for being such an excellent person Feb 15 03:51:32 lol Feb 15 04:02:05 matthew-: live with it Feb 15 04:02:16 zerojay: been for quite some time now Feb 15 06:01:31 hi, so i found the alarm-not-snoozing bug Feb 15 06:04:43 When i set it to offline mode, and something wants to use the internet, like ntpd or mail (i am not sure, it might be just one naughty app) the dialog appears - "Do you want to turn the offline mode off?" and stays there, catching the input. Now, when the alarm starts, all presses or clicks are sent to that dialog. So i've got to snooze it by turning it over, answering the off mode dialog and waiting to stop the alarm. Feb 15 06:09:45 Bug's been filed. Feb 15 06:18:34 oh Feb 15 06:18:39 well, thanks Feb 15 06:32:41 morn Feb 15 06:34:27 tigert, Good evening." Feb 15 06:39:17 "'Cool' X Terminal commands for a noob?" Feb 15 06:39:19 Ahhahahaha Feb 15 06:39:41 (obligatory rm-rf already mentioned by qwerty12) Feb 15 06:40:18 The original poster's join date is Feb2010, too. Are they *really* getting more stupid with every month? Feb 15 06:44:02 how the heck do you have a "cool" xterm command Feb 15 06:45:08 The same way you have a cool fanny pack Feb 15 06:47:27 It seems I cannot use the search to find this supposedly humorous thread Feb 15 06:47:33 link please ? Feb 15 06:53:40 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44516 Feb 15 07:12:58 tigert, Good evening." Feb 15 07:13:29 Oops - sorry, bad uparrow. Feb 15 07:17:34 good morning Feb 15 07:21:57 RST38h: lmao all the reports that come in for the rm -rf / post Feb 15 07:25:04 someone using syncevolution? It does not show etries that should be synced from server (calendar) and it creates multiple entries on the server (each time I sync it creates an entry) Feb 15 07:57:42 anyone know how to see what goes wrong when launching a (python) program via the menu (.desktop file), executing the file from commandline works just fine. Feb 15 07:59:31 run the desktop file on cmd line? Feb 15 08:01:19 no I mean running the executable the .desktop file tries to launch on terminal, or is there a way to run the .desktop file somehow ? Feb 15 08:01:39 s/run the .desktop/execute the .desktop/ Feb 15 08:01:40 mashiara meant: no I mean running the executable the .desktop file tries to launch on terminal, or is there a way to execute the .desktop file somehow ? Feb 15 08:04:28 morning Feb 15 08:05:10 hi Feb 15 08:05:32 is it possible to register hotkeys on maemo5? Feb 15 08:07:01 say, i want a service to grab "shift+backspace" and do something on this keycombo, maybe have to look at doing this at X server level? Feb 15 08:16:37 ensi, you could try xsendkey Feb 15 08:18:24 ensi: why not do it the same way you would on a regular linux desktop running X? Feb 15 08:18:28 Well, I'm in trouble. My N900 spontaneously rebooted itself, and now will not boot all the way up. Feb 15 08:18:39 Somehow my sources file must be very f****, wont install most, i.e. says that "bluemaemo has no installation candidate" and i should install "bluemaemo" instead lol Feb 15 08:18:44 It gets to the five dots, then shuts down again. Feb 15 08:18:58 I can't get it into the flashing mode by holding down 'u'. :( Feb 15 08:19:25 hmm, if it really dead only Nokia flash equipment will help Feb 15 08:19:38 villager: well i guess the trouble is that i havent done X programmign directly, always used a windowing kit like gtk or qt Feb 15 08:19:46 What is "Nokia Flash equipment?" Feb 15 08:19:59 ScribbleJ: a linux pc? Feb 15 08:20:11 no Feb 15 08:20:11 ensi, Right, I got one of those. Feb 15 08:20:15 morning Feb 15 08:20:18 a FPS-21 + FLS-5 dongle Feb 15 08:20:22 But it's worthless unless I can boot into flashing mode. Feb 15 08:20:26 + Interface cable Feb 15 08:20:35 connect under the battery Feb 15 08:20:38 *connects Feb 15 08:20:42 oh real symbian like flashing tools Feb 15 08:20:58 exactly, normal nokia flashing equipment as used in stores Feb 15 08:21:14 And WTf, if I take out the SDHC card it won't power on /at all/. Feb 15 08:21:26 WZHang, where did you get this equipment, out of curiousity? Feb 15 08:21:27 hmm, Sounds more like an Hardware error then Feb 15 08:21:40 jaem_n900: "Officially" only over Nokia Feb 15 08:21:55 the FPS-21 is no Problem, you can get it anywhere - only the Dongle is hard to get Feb 15 08:22:09 Without the Dongle its basically worthless Feb 15 08:22:09 ah... ;) Feb 15 08:22:26 wtfun. Feb 15 08:22:27 a friend was interested, hence my question Feb 15 08:22:29 WZhang: so that is what those "golden dots" on the PCB showing when you take out the batt is for? Feb 15 08:22:37 So I'm phoneless and there's jack all I can do about it? Feb 15 08:22:43 This is severely disappointing. Feb 15 08:23:20 ScribbleJ: did you do anything to the phoen? Feb 15 08:23:29 or it just started doing that by itself? Feb 15 08:23:30 ensi: XGrabKey Feb 15 08:23:43 tybollt: yes, exactly Feb 15 08:23:47 ScribbleJ: you should be able to flash still, make sure your battery is charged Feb 15 08:23:53 wait, let me see if i find a adapter and can make a pic, sec Feb 15 08:23:55 I was copying a file via ssh onto the SDHC card, when the phone just rebooted. I wasn't doing anything strange and it was definitely not going on (and therefore filling up) the root parition. Feb 15 08:23:55 it's not very often at all you need flash equipment. Feb 15 08:24:01 Stskeeps, how? Feb 15 08:24:21 ScribbleJ: first off, use a 32-bit pc, windows xp or linux, and flash through there Feb 15 08:24:29 and see if you can charge your battery in another device Feb 15 08:24:48 Stskeeps, well, I luckily have a 32-bit notebook... but how am I going to flash? The battery is fully charged, FWIW. Feb 15 08:24:56 ~flashing Feb 15 08:24:59 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 15 08:25:05 villager: all rite, thanksn Feb 15 08:25:22 ScribbleJ: take out battery, plug in usb on both sides, start flasher, put in battery Feb 15 08:25:50 Stskeeps, I'll try that, but that link that just posted will nto work. I've used 'u' to get into flashing mode before. It does not work now. Feb 15 08:26:04 tybollt: http://www.abload.de/img/foto05583ye.jpg Feb 15 08:26:24 FPS-21 adapter for Nokia 6280 Feb 15 08:27:29 ScribbleJ: i have never used 'u' personally. Feb 15 08:27:43 Anyone got a N800? Feb 15 08:27:51 or N810, with Diablo Feb 15 08:29:33 Aha Feb 15 08:29:40 That technique seems to have worked, Stskeeps. Feb 15 08:30:28 ScribbleJ: good :) Feb 15 08:30:46 I didn't even have to flash the whole thing, just reflashed the kernel. Feb 15 08:30:55 That doesn't make much sense, though... wonder why it died. Feb 15 08:31:04 look in logfiles Feb 15 08:31:08 WZHang, yes, but not charged Feb 15 08:31:10 ScribbleJ: you did try hard booting it yes? Feb 15 08:31:12 what do you need? Feb 15 08:31:44 ensi, what does a hard boot look like, different from a normal boot? Feb 15 08:31:57 ScribbleJ: you yank out the battery Feb 15 08:32:01 WZhang: any way to give me your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list ? mine is pretty much cr*p, and does not work well anymore Feb 15 08:32:04 eh Feb 15 08:32:10 I did that, yes. It didn't help any. Feb 15 08:32:14 why i highlight myself, i meant jaem_n900 :P Feb 15 08:32:25 Flashing with Stskeeps's battery method worked though. Feb 15 08:33:03 ScribbleJ: which is? Feb 15 08:33:03 i prefer a complete flash over the Box, since it can repair i.e. Bootloader Feb 15 08:33:26 WZHang, hehe... give me a sec, and I'll see if it has enough power to boot for a sec Feb 15 08:33:30 tybollt, remove battery, plug in usb cable, start flasher, replace battery. Feb 15 08:33:34 thanks ;D Feb 15 08:33:39 uhm Feb 15 08:33:45 "plug in usb on both sides"? Feb 15 08:33:49 huh? Feb 15 08:33:52 tybollt: host and device Feb 15 08:33:54 tybollt, to the phone and the pc. :) Feb 15 08:33:55 on your PC and on Phone Feb 15 08:33:57 d'oh :) Feb 15 08:34:15 DONT try to fit in USb in headphone jack lol Feb 15 08:34:17 I don't often have it charged since I got my N900 loaner, because I don't want to kill the battery for when I may have to give the N900 back Feb 15 08:34:41 I don't understand. Feb 15 08:34:43 yeah, the batterys die pretty fast - thats why i have many backup batterys ;) Feb 15 08:34:54 "My god dern flashermathing won't kerwork - I haven't connect 'er to da PC just yet, what's wrong, why're not working?" Feb 15 08:35:11 tybollt, you laugh but I've done things that stupid. Feb 15 08:35:34 like the time I had my guy return a notebook to the store because it stopped working.... I hadn't plugged it in. Feb 15 08:35:38 WZhang, sorry, it's dead right now. I could pull the card and pastebin it from my desktop, but I'm heading to bed Feb 15 08:35:45 has time Feb 15 08:35:52 you should be able to find a standard list online, though Feb 15 08:36:03 not really, already googled long Feb 15 08:36:03 good luck Feb 15 08:36:06 hmm Feb 15 08:36:10 okay, well, sorry Feb 15 08:36:14 np Feb 15 08:36:41 ScribbleJ: fair enough =) Feb 15 08:47:17 Morning, all Feb 15 08:47:18 Jaffa: ping? Feb 15 08:47:42 Jaffa: Please make sure the in your feeds is stable. Feb 15 08:48:15 Jaffa: When you published a new issue of mwkn, all pubdates were updated. Feb 15 08:48:52 X-Fade: Really? Hmm Feb 15 08:49:07 Jaffa: Check the rss ;) Feb 15 08:49:17 Jaffa: And the planet for that matter. Feb 15 08:49:18 X-Fade: Ah yes, I see. Feb 15 08:50:05 X-Fade: Fixed Feb 15 08:50:28 Jaffa: Cool, not a big deal now. But annoying when you reach 50 issues :) Feb 15 08:53:51 X-Fade: I've fixed the script so that it shouldn't happen again Feb 15 09:01:45 ... Feb 15 09:01:55 next time i check if i need devel repo for anything Feb 15 09:02:08 before i try to figure 7 days out why it does not work Feb 15 09:03:07 hmm Feb 15 09:05:55 Jaffa: mwkn tip: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44479 (wishes of older device users) Feb 15 09:06:21 moo, ab Feb 15 09:08:35 moab on espoo? Feb 15 09:14:28 Stskeeps: Ta. Feb 15 09:14:29 I read somewhere that charging (nor maintaining the charge from the battery that is being used by the device?) doesn't occur when the green light is on, is this correct? Feb 15 09:16:09 X-Fade: Can you force Planet to refetch the MWKN feed to tidy up the pubDates? Feb 15 09:16:12 IOW, if I put my device into charger at the evening and leave it there until the morning, has it been without wired electricity for many hours already in the morning? Feb 15 09:17:35 RST38h, Feb 15 09:19:50 Jaffa: Done. Feb 15 09:21:42 Umm, where to open Bugs against the maemo webpage? Feb 15 09:21:45 X-Fade: Ta Feb 15 09:21:47 On the regular BT? Feb 15 09:22:08 Yeah, nvm the question. Feb 15 09:25:53 th0br0, Bugzilla > maemo.org Website Feb 15 09:26:14 Yeah, the 404 appears to have miraculously fixed itself though once I reopened the page... Feb 15 09:27:17 coumem applet could easily be oart of the stock maemo5 distro Feb 15 09:27:22 cpumem Feb 15 09:27:34 fin my n800nally typing over bluemaemo right now o Feb 15 09:27:41 *finally Feb 15 09:27:59 needs german keyboard layout, but everything else works good Feb 15 09:29:22 germany should adopt us kbd layout and map umlauts to fn+u,a,o,s Feb 15 09:29:44 lol Feb 15 09:29:52 umlaut-s? Feb 15 09:29:56 Cant type like that, i cant even remember where the @ key is on US KB Feb 15 09:30:01 for ss Feb 15 09:30:03 ß Feb 15 09:30:05 ^^^this Feb 15 09:30:16 pupnik, but it has no umlaut in it Feb 15 09:30:29 it is actually itself one Feb 15 09:30:35 yeah see. if we used us kbd layout we would have economic advantage working overseas Feb 15 09:30:59 Hmm... The lack of profiles in N900 is really annoying :( Feb 15 09:31:05 well, we should let everyone use the most used KB on world Feb 15 09:31:08 ZH_CN Feb 15 09:31:09 :D Feb 15 09:31:52 hi, does the maemo 5 haj japanese/korean input methods? Feb 15 09:31:56 i would learn chinese but i dont want to sound like them Feb 15 09:32:08 umlaut turns "back vowels" into "front vowels", s is not a vowel Feb 15 09:32:22 i know inz. Feb 15 09:32:31 sobczyk: i assume it has, at least onscreen Feb 15 09:32:39 as i use HK-CN on my N800 Feb 15 09:33:01 WZhang, because o the screen I assume something like scim on linux Feb 15 09:33:11 i mean HW eyboard Feb 15 09:33:15 Also, my german teacher tols that ß is being deprecated and one should use ss instead Feb 15 09:33:22 Does it even have enough keys for JP/KR? Feb 15 09:33:33 they use chording afaik Feb 15 09:33:38 So mybe that could be boosted using keyboard layout without ß Feb 15 09:33:45 lol inz, he told you serious crap then :D Feb 15 09:33:46 ful qwerty should be enough for input Feb 15 09:35:08 though I wasn't able to find any info on IM's on the n900/maemo5 Feb 15 09:35:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F#Current_usage_in_German Feb 15 09:37:52 you can change the keyboard layour fairly easily Feb 15 09:38:12 google it for directions Feb 15 09:38:42 WZhang, yah, it's the only source saying such things this far Feb 15 09:38:51 WZhang, maybe it was her opinion =) Feb 15 09:39:53 one more thing, is it possible to limit data transfer to wifi only? Feb 15 09:39:54 I think so Feb 15 09:40:12 since i live in Austria and speak perfect german, and learned it for a long time :P Feb 15 10:09:10 i would really like a ustream client Feb 15 10:09:26 their flash is too heavy in browser Feb 15 10:12:53 lol ok, nilfs2 might not be so good Feb 15 10:13:01 my flash stick has developed a bad block in 2 days :) Feb 15 10:22:55 http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10451703-2.html [ Buzz off: Disabling Google Buzz | Webware - CNET ] Feb 15 10:31:51 http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm <- MWC press conference starting. Feb 15 10:33:04 http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-mobile-7-interface-and-device-leaked-on-mwc-banners/ oops Feb 15 10:41:17 hello? Feb 15 10:41:31 Greetings Feb 15 10:41:37 Hi Feb 15 10:41:50 What's this MeeGo crap twitter is spamming me with? Feb 15 10:43:36 <_berto_> http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm Feb 15 10:43:42 yep yep. Feb 15 10:44:28 http://meego.com Feb 15 10:44:41 Hi there. Is someone here who can see what's wrong with package getting imported to repos? Feb 15 10:44:44 does repository keep stats how many hits/downloads some package has got? Feb 15 10:44:49 hmm fully open source they say.. Feb 15 10:44:56 D-Iivil: usually builder tells it :P Feb 15 10:45:24 D-Iivil: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/?C=M;O=D Feb 15 10:45:28 meego! Feb 15 10:45:31 ifreq, Extras keeps track of downloads. Extras-testing and -devel do not Feb 15 10:45:44 ifeq, build is successfully, but the package still doesn't get imported to repos. This has happened to me few times and sometimes it works if I re-upload the source with different version number. Feb 15 10:46:27 Ken-Young: oki Feb 15 10:46:47 D-Iivil: it takes some time to get refreshed atleast. Feb 15 10:46:53 ifreq, and if your asking me to wait a bit longer; package I uploaded to extras-devel two weeks ago hasn't still got imported even the build was ok :-P Feb 15 10:47:03 i usually grow the package number when done some changes Feb 15 10:47:22 Yes, me too. But you can't upload the package with same version number 'coz the system tells it's already there. Feb 15 10:47:39 D-Iivil: Which package? Feb 15 10:47:46 So I'm asking if there's someone who has access to the server and could see if the package went to trash by mistake or something. Feb 15 10:48:01 This: http://maemo.org/packages/view/iivilsteel-ovi/ & https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/iivilsteel-ovi_2.0.0.0/ Feb 15 10:48:06 moblin goes qt Feb 15 10:48:16 meego* Feb 15 10:48:19 And it still won't show up here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/i/ Feb 15 10:48:23 so intel will concentrate on talbet, nokia on phone, share os? Feb 15 10:49:14 intel calling everyone at maemo.org to go join meego.com Feb 15 10:49:45 heya all Feb 15 10:49:56 OHAI Feb 15 10:50:52 so in the future there will only be meego, but no maemo? Feb 15 10:51:34 seems so, stupid name Feb 15 10:51:47 meego, so simple even a 3 year old can understand it Feb 15 10:52:01 the announcement would suggest that harmattan just died Feb 15 10:52:01 mee go internet now! Feb 15 10:52:15 lol Feb 15 10:52:16 it's a scheme to bring back amiga Feb 15 10:52:23 amiga ftw! Feb 15 10:52:25 canhazchizburger OS :D Feb 15 10:52:54 "harmattan"? Feb 15 10:52:57 the amiga port is obviously called ameego Feb 15 10:52:59 qgil want's discussion here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=527101 Feb 15 10:53:03 nvm. yeah Feb 15 10:53:20 first meego release in q2 apparently Feb 15 10:53:32 is harmattan meego? Feb 15 10:53:43 it's meego 6 ;-) Feb 15 10:53:45 wow Feb 15 10:54:01 I thought maemo was lame....I shouldn't have complained ;) Feb 15 10:54:02 so you guys heard .. that was totally unexpected Feb 15 10:54:05 X-Fade: Can you help me with the issue? Feb 15 10:54:15 http://meego.com/sites/all/themes/meego/images/splash-community.png - MeeGo masscots :D Feb 15 10:54:59 makes sense, no way maemo could compete against android otherwise Feb 15 10:55:11 * Jaffa giggles that the MeeGo announcement says "Moblin and maemo [sic] are merging!" Feb 15 10:55:18 D-Iivil: yes. Feb 15 10:55:28 Great :) Feb 15 10:56:06 X-Fade: you should register meego.org like now :) Feb 15 10:56:29 so.. Is harmattan == meego? Feb 15 10:56:41 he'd be a couple of years late trying to do so Feb 15 10:56:43 I wonder how this would play out, moblin is based on gtk and uses clutter for tranistion multitouch and effect, while maemo is moving to Qt.. also maemo is based on debian while moblin is based on fedora, moblin is optimised for atom while maemo is compiled for arm .. hmm Feb 15 10:56:59 That's really good news. Feb 15 10:57:06 meego is purely qt apparently Feb 15 10:57:14 http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture Feb 15 10:57:17 meego.com has N900 on front page Feb 15 10:57:35 yeah they said meego is qt. Feb 15 10:57:37 I reckon meego will be maemo operating stack and meego (moblin) user space tools;. Feb 15 10:58:02 This will push the development community a great deal. Feb 15 10:58:08 http://meego.com/developers/getting-started/create-basic-meego-application < duh, that is funny... now where's the difference to that application and a basic qt hello world app Feb 15 10:58:36 th0br0: that's a hell of a lot ore complicated Feb 15 10:58:38 th0br0: maybe that's the point :P Feb 15 10:58:49 th0br0, well the point would be that there is no difference. Feb 15 10:59:20 I think this moves frees maemo from Nokias grip and makes it like symbian and android Feb 15 10:59:32 so anyone can ship devices based on meego Feb 15 10:59:51 they'll screw it up and meego will be uiq and maemo s60 ;) Feb 15 11:00:06 wazd, meego.org was registered in Nov-2008 Feb 15 11:00:10 the nokia dude said "fully open source".. so will it be FULLY open source? Feb 15 11:00:27 "fully open source" probably = mostly open source Feb 15 11:00:31 mece: meego doesn't need a cell radio.... Feb 15 11:00:40 righty-o Feb 15 11:00:43 mece: Device specific layer will probably not be a part of it. Feb 15 11:00:45 http://meego.com/about/licensing-policy Feb 15 11:00:52 I bet there's just one agreement between Nokia and Intel, ``You can use it, and we'll work with you, just don't build any phones okay?'' :) Feb 15 11:00:54 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/meego-time.html Feb 15 11:01:46 nid0: "mostly opensource" == "sign NDA here!"? Feb 15 11:02:15 tybollt: HW parts will always be problematic Feb 15 11:02:26 Jaaksi's blog: "MeeGo is free. Code will be available for everybody under proper open source licenses. No strings attached" Feb 15 11:02:31 so how do you pronounce meego? Feb 15 11:02:48 Stskeeps: mind I'm just ranting abuot the use of "opensource", not really weighing in in any discussion ;) Feb 15 11:02:48 I'm guessing it's "me go" Feb 15 11:02:50 pronounced as meego Feb 15 11:02:54 Has any commercial product actually been shipped with Moblin? Feb 15 11:04:08 * Jaffa wonders if there'll still be two communities in practice, or one Feb 15 11:05:16 Jaffa: time for soul searching, too Feb 15 11:06:09 hrw|gone: seqretary might be an interesting schedule app for you Feb 15 11:06:19 join the maemo-nazi channel! :D Feb 15 11:06:25 Stskeeps: Indeed. Implications for Community Council as well Feb 15 11:06:38 Jaffa: at least meego has a 'governance' part Feb 15 11:07:49 Hahah Feb 15 11:08:32 i dont like all these competitors Feb 15 11:09:01 kill them with fire Feb 15 11:09:33 so guys Feb 15 11:09:40 it's been a great ride w/ maemo Feb 15 11:09:47 too bad it couldn't last Feb 15 11:09:50 so.. meego ... Feb 15 11:10:10 well it'll merge.. I wonder what'll happen with maemo.org, the forum etcetera Feb 15 11:10:12 well, I think it's more good than bad Feb 15 11:10:15 where do I go get my N900 refund? Feb 15 11:10:16 me too Feb 15 11:10:27 tybollt: go away Feb 15 11:10:27 Anidel: talk.meego.com time ;p Feb 15 11:10:39 now I can actually test my themes without buying $1k device :D Feb 15 11:10:42 tybollt, actually Maemo 6 wasn't headed to the N900 anyway.. so where's the issue? Feb 15 11:10:45 pupnik: hehe :) I'm joking. Feb 15 11:10:54 Stskeeps, will be the same? :) Feb 15 11:11:01 Stskeeps: at least we can still call it tmo! Feb 15 11:11:10 w00t: lol Feb 15 11:11:10 no Feb 15 11:11:32 woah Feb 15 11:11:33 its a .com :p Feb 15 11:11:34 http://meego.com/ Feb 15 11:11:41 Jaffa: Good, I'm not the only one feeling weird about all this. Feb 15 11:11:47 lcuk: dammit, shatter all my dreams Feb 15 11:11:59 good night sweet prince maemo Feb 15 11:12:04 how do i enable core dumps in N900 ? Feb 15 11:12:05 w00t, tmc :P Feb 15 11:12:06 zerojay: I think that to say you're the only one feeling weird would be an understatement, it's pretty huge in so many ways.. Feb 15 11:12:11 what the hell am I going to do with the tattoo then?!? Feb 15 11:12:23 jaffa, they said at the start there are 2 channels, the intel channel and the nokia channel Feb 15 11:12:27 have to mod it to "Mom" I guess Feb 15 11:12:38 villemv, Vintage tatoos are good :) Feb 15 11:12:46 ;-) Feb 15 11:13:12 is there as yet a way to enable host mode on the USB port? Feb 15 11:13:26 lcuk: Yeah, but what does that mean? If they want apps to be compatible across devices they'll want a single app developer community Feb 15 11:13:38 ofc Feb 15 11:13:39 lcuk: Which also implies changes to Extras, autobuilder, QA, ... Feb 15 11:13:47 sigh Feb 15 11:13:55 http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-sausage-sales-surge-as-people-use-them-for-iphone-styluses-2010-2 Feb 15 11:14:08 Anidel: so maemo 6 is slated to be the first megoo based OS then? Feb 15 11:14:19 I feel sick. Feb 15 11:14:23 tybollt, according to Ari's blog post.. Feb 15 11:14:32 stop crying. Feb 15 11:14:32 interesting Feb 15 11:14:52 Anyone else think this means next device/OS will be H2 2011? :-) Feb 15 11:15:20 ShadowJK, nope.. next device will be a Maemo 6 device (or Meego 1.0) Feb 15 11:15:36 I think it's a bit early for pessimism Feb 15 11:15:50 Anidel, that was a time, not a name Feb 15 11:15:51 I think the first MeeGo device will see the light in 2011, but the Maemo 6 device will come earlier Feb 15 11:15:57 morning Feb 15 11:16:02 anyway Feb 15 11:16:12 morning lardman Feb 15 11:16:15 moo lardman Feb 15 11:16:17 hi Anidel Feb 15 11:16:20 it was pretty much confirmed M6 ! N900 even prior to this - right? Feb 15 11:16:20 hi pupnik Feb 15 11:16:23 This will probably lead to terrible fragmentation, I mean, not even Nokia itself could write symbian apps that worked on more than a handful of devices.... Feb 15 11:16:51 * pupnik stabs fragmentation with a fork Feb 15 11:16:53 hahahaha Feb 15 11:17:09 hmm, I take it there has been some news.... Feb 15 11:17:14 Shadikka, fragmentation? two platforms merging into one.. I don't see it as fragmentation, rather the opposite Feb 15 11:17:19 * lardman heads to maemo.org frontpage Feb 15 11:17:21 Just realised, MeeGo is a *really* shit name. Feb 15 11:17:22 lardman: a bit... yeah Feb 15 11:17:25 lardman, yes.. meego.com Feb 15 11:17:29 it is Jaffa Feb 15 11:17:43 Maemo and Moblin merging into a single software platform supporting Intel and ARM CPUs Feb 15 11:17:44 Jaffa: try appending an s and see what site that is :S Feb 15 11:17:44 ah Feb 15 11:17:48 and more Feb 15 11:17:52 Will it have a gaming platform called WiiGo? Feb 15 11:17:55 In a joint effort with Nintendo Feb 15 11:18:21 'I've bought a Meego' sounds like you bought a friend (in spanish) Feb 15 11:18:30 so what's happening to Maemo 6, and using Qt for the frontend, etc.? Feb 15 11:18:48 lardman: Nothing, meego will be qt based. Feb 15 11:19:03 lardman Quim's posted a post right now on its blog http://flors.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/maemo-moblin-meego-join-us/ Feb 15 11:19:04 ok Feb 15 11:19:04 lardman: the big news here is that intel gets behind qt too. Feb 15 11:19:19 thanks Feb 15 11:19:31 nokia 2nd release now starting Feb 15 11:19:33 hmm, I drop out for a week so I can do some work and all this happens.... ;) Feb 15 11:19:44 the architecture diagram has GTK/Clutter too Feb 15 11:19:47 lardman: Just happened. Feb 15 11:20:03 In the end, all of this is probably a very good thing, but ugh.. so many questions. Feb 15 11:20:11 X-Fade: ah, so perferfectly timed for my re-arrival Feb 15 11:20:13 nid0: Hopefully it's the N920 running Maemo 6 with the Maemo 6 SDK beta available now and pre-release for N900 ;-) Feb 15 11:20:16 yerga: I think you said it best in your tweet. Feb 15 11:20:32 zerojay, yes, my feelings right now Feb 15 11:20:35 zerojay: time to digest it all and start answering them I think :) Feb 15 11:20:43 X-Fade: I need to run, but can you PM me if you found something and maybe got it fixed? Feb 15 11:20:51 zerojay, but at the end this will be a very good thing Feb 15 11:20:55 i would say this is more a problem for intel then nokia, as this is the second "restart" of moblin Feb 15 11:21:27 MeeGo isn't replacing Maemo is it? Maemo will still be seperate and continue? Feb 15 11:21:36 MeeGo sounds like shit Feb 15 11:21:40 moblin 1.x used deb, then they restarted with rpm for 2.x, and now its going qt and meego Feb 15 11:21:44 yerga: Yeah, I know. Feb 15 11:21:47 Jaffa - second release seems to just be more about Ovi services coming to more customers + devices Feb 15 11:21:59 hmm, Quim's blog post points to a wiki page that needs a login... Feb 15 11:21:59 nid0: Yawn Feb 15 11:22:16 ah, need to register Feb 15 11:22:55 hmm, as i think about it, intel have always been borrowing from nokia during the moblin development. they have been using hildon since 1.x for example Feb 15 11:23:32 so... moblin was already maemo for x86? Feb 15 11:23:36 lardman: Fixed Feb 15 11:23:56 will maemo 6 support n900? Feb 15 11:24:12 but, well, news without source code aren't very fun Feb 15 11:24:30 sobczyk: far as I know - it was already determined that no it will not Feb 15 11:24:33 yerga, yeah Q2 release they said. Feb 15 11:24:41 Please don't ruin this now... we only just got the open, free, and known-brand backed phone we have all been after - don't turn it into some crappy "ideology" alliance thing where we are forced only to use Qt and RPM Feb 15 11:24:47 mece: there was a fair bit of shared code at least Feb 15 11:24:51 rpm ftw Feb 15 11:25:02 tybolt, when was it determined? Feb 15 11:25:30 Lantizia1: That probably will not happen so don't worry. Feb 15 11:25:35 mece: no cold hard facts here, more like hearsay Feb 15 11:25:51 mece: IIRC genA or someone ranted about it around here some day Feb 15 11:26:22 well... they have an N900 on the front page of meego.com Feb 15 11:26:40 I for one don't mind QT - I do however fear (big time!) switching to rpm Feb 15 11:26:48 ~lart virc for not showing new channels Feb 15 11:26:49 * infobot installs PocketPC on virc's PDA for not showing new channels Feb 15 11:26:52 bbiam Feb 15 11:26:55 ooh, merging with moblin?! Feb 15 11:27:05 hmm, seems gtk+clutter will still be there, only the focus will be on qt Feb 15 11:27:09 * frals just woke up Feb 15 11:27:16 http://thenokiablog.com/2010/02/15/intel-nokia-moblin-maemo-meego/ Feb 15 11:27:18 so whats this meego stuff? Feb 15 11:27:24 despite no maemo6 qt4.6 will be available on n900? Feb 15 11:27:31 tybollt, do we know that we are switching to rpm? Feb 15 11:27:41 frals: click on the links above - but do be seated and put the coffee mug ona desk in front of you before doing so :-( Feb 15 11:27:48 frals, well it's RIP maemo hello MeeGo Feb 15 11:27:54 apparently Feb 15 11:28:00 live (now) http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm Feb 15 11:28:02 everyone who thinks maemo is dead please leave Feb 15 11:28:07 not sure if i like that they appear to split handheld and netbook ui frameworks, with the option for other ui as well Feb 15 11:28:12 Heh, Feb 15 11:28:14 im tired to see ppl crying like ubnhc of emos Feb 15 11:28:19 bunch* Feb 15 11:28:27 ifreq: I think it's a great move :) Feb 15 11:28:29 mece: right now I just feel like a teen who has seen an irish catholic minister for the first time to be honest... :( Feb 15 11:28:50 tybollt, heh Feb 15 11:29:02 ifreq: for BOTH platforms. way too much wheel spinning reinventing the same wheel in the various linux distros :) Feb 15 11:29:04 ifreq: I think this is jus tthe usual frantic activity following any kind of major announcement. Feb 15 11:29:06 "Linux Foundation hosted project" Feb 15 11:29:12 nice Feb 15 11:29:12 ifreq: it'll calm down in a few hours ;) Feb 15 11:29:13 bleeter: im happy with my phone atm.. my OS couldnt care less if some new X OS comes somedya.. if it supports my phone.. FINE. if not.. well.. time will tell :) Feb 15 11:29:23 lbt: hmm, wish they had subtitles Feb 15 11:29:27 alterego: yes it is :P Feb 15 11:29:32 so intel wants some freedom from microsoft? Feb 15 11:29:34 ifreq: I'm in Australia, n900 launch here later next month... Feb 15 11:29:35 ifreq, I definately agree Feb 15 11:29:38 alterego: I'll calm down when we have answers to questions. Feb 15 11:29:40 lardman: actually from http://flors.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/maemo-moblin-meego-join-us/ Feb 15 11:29:43 alterego: i wouldnt just go for assumptions until something REAL is out. Feb 15 11:29:58 zerojay: If these two megacorps could drop some of their priorities in order to reach a common ground, other players can do that too. Including you? (yes, you). Feb 15 11:30:04 Feb 15 11:30:07 ifreq: agreed, Nokia aren't going to pull out of maemo.org and we're not the ones doing the merging. Feb 15 11:30:09 lbt: I just can't listen as my work PC's headset plug is knackered :) Feb 15 11:30:12 bleeter: going to get n900? :) great phone Feb 15 11:30:13 quote from Quim Feb 15 11:30:26 qt4.6 on n900 anyone? Feb 15 11:30:26 lardman: I think it'll be on youtube Feb 15 11:30:30 bleeter, N900, greatest device ever! Feb 15 11:30:33 I missed the first so I hope so Feb 15 11:30:33 ifreq: been waiting since linux.conf.au in Jan '09... don't want to import, void warranty Feb 15 11:30:34 yep Feb 15 11:30:35 pupnik: could be that intel see a future in smaller devices, and not seeing microsoft being able to deliver a os for that segment Feb 15 11:30:44 What's your take; when will the merger of maemo and moblin be visible on the product level? :) Feb 15 11:30:47 bleeter: yeah :) good choise. Feb 15 11:30:56 ifreq, mece: have already excited local nokia care office. I'm in a small city. They're thrilled, all 3 staff hahaha Feb 15 11:31:02 :) Feb 15 11:31:02 My guess would be 2012 at earliest... Feb 15 11:31:08 bleeter, cool :D Feb 15 11:31:08 MiXu-: it is nice that this announce is *pre* device Feb 15 11:31:13 hehe Feb 15 11:31:35 next news I'm waiting for is a tablet device.. really need one guys Feb 15 11:31:41 MiXu, some new item suggested that the first device would come out as soon as "end of 2010" Feb 15 11:32:04 rumours tend to grow. Feb 15 11:32:23 So this must have been "the big news" that was referred to a couple of weeks back. Feb 15 11:32:33 inz: That would be harmattan then. I doubt it. Feb 15 11:32:34 well it is pretty big news Feb 15 11:32:37 who here has experience with moblin? Feb 15 11:32:43 soon some geek posts maemo is dead and then its all over twitter facebook etc Feb 15 11:32:45 :) Feb 15 11:32:59 MiXu-, Harmattan should be considered MeeGo Feb 15 11:33:09 moblin is dead! :) Feb 15 11:33:20 mece: Wow. That's surprising. Feb 15 11:33:22 win 3.1 iz dead!! finally! Feb 15 11:33:23 piupnik, did it ever live? Feb 15 11:33:25 so we have to join #meego or what? Feb 15 11:33:25 :) Feb 15 11:33:40 MiXu-, "Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance." from Jaaksi's blog Feb 15 11:33:41 i want to run win nt4.0 on my phone. it ran on my alpha too.. Feb 15 11:33:45 I guess, at least from a community point of view, getting Moblin and/or MeeGo *mostly* working on n900 would be some goal, learning experiences, practicing synergies etc. Feb 15 11:33:46 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/meego-time.html Feb 15 11:33:59 till-: yeah leave this channel and join to #meego for more news. Feb 15 11:34:06 ifreq: I want to run solitaire.exe on my phone :( Feb 15 11:34:08 LOL Feb 15 11:34:16 bleeter, dosbox Feb 15 11:34:19 hm.. so, do I correctly understand, that Maemo will become "an implementation of meego". and still will have some specific parts? will maemo.org stay as a portal for Nokia's implementation of meego? Feb 15 11:34:20 it looks like it will be good for maemo. except for the awful name Feb 15 11:34:27 mece: sssh don't make it so easy ;) Feb 15 11:34:35 *g* Feb 15 11:34:37 bleeter, sorry ;) Feb 15 11:34:51 bah, there goes N8x0 support... Feb 15 11:34:56 JimiDini: that looks correct afaict Feb 15 11:34:58 "sorry, no meego for you" Feb 15 11:35:01 oo drm free ovi music. that's nice. Feb 15 11:35:38 MiXu-, ahh, found it: http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-and-intel-launch-meego-moblin-and-maemo-merge-1573930/ Feb 15 11:35:39 hey, community can make n8x0 a meego platform Feb 15 11:35:43 Shrik3: s/N8x0/N[89]x0/ Feb 15 11:35:51 go, meego ^^ Feb 15 11:35:52 amigo Feb 15 11:35:54 The Nokia Way =) Feb 15 11:35:55 now where's timeless? I need some of his synic views :) Feb 15 11:35:58 MiXu-, "...while the first devices should e on sale by the end of the year." Feb 15 11:36:09 since it's anyway "wider" platform than, say, fremantly Feb 15 11:36:11 le Feb 15 11:36:17 ooh, paypal on meego Feb 15 11:36:23 quite Feb 15 11:36:27 hence drm on the new phone Feb 15 11:36:41 hmm so what ever happed to the 4 step plan of maemo becoming a consumer ready device. Feb 15 11:36:44 so much for having a non-drm kernel... Feb 15 11:36:49 lbt: what do you mean paypal? it's a web service - no? Feb 15 11:37:02 http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm Feb 15 11:37:04 Nokia says we would see a meego device 2nd quater this year Feb 15 11:37:08 listening and guessing Feb 15 11:37:12 Awesome. :) Feb 15 11:37:27 * lbt goes to buy nokia shares Feb 15 11:37:29 they said we'd see the first release of the os 2nd quarter, not the first devices running it Feb 15 11:37:31 bigbrovar: Where does it say that? Feb 15 11:37:35 url? Feb 15 11:38:19 hmm, I thought I saw it say device too Feb 15 11:38:36 MiXu-: from this tweet https://twitter.com/PeterMaemo/status/9136010539 Feb 15 11:38:50 It's release, not device. Feb 15 11:38:52 but no, is talking about the sw release: http://meego.com/about/faq Feb 15 11:39:02 MiXu-: Peter is heading marketing in Maemo Devices@Nokia. Hope to engage those that like Maemo UX and philosophy. Feb 15 11:39:22 MiXu-: or what use to be Maemo Devices :p Feb 15 11:39:29 maemo and meego trending on twitter... Feb 15 11:39:53 Haha, just on the keynote "on my ma- meego" :) Feb 15 11:41:11 Hukka, he said on maemo, on meego, on symbian IMO. Didn't sound like a mistake Feb 15 11:41:17 MiXu-: true you are right Feb 15 11:42:02 http://meego.com/about/overview/big-merge-message-intel-and-nokia qgil makes an appearance ;) Feb 15 11:43:50 hmm, again /me grumbles about the lack of subtitles on online video Feb 15 11:44:18 lardman: the finlish is no that bad? Feb 15 11:44:36 X-Fade: my 3.5mm socket is broken Feb 15 11:44:43 Could I just say I don't like Qt all that much, or RPM based distros.... Have I bought a product with a short shelf life here? Feb 15 11:44:52 so I have to lipread or all of the office can hear them Feb 15 11:45:26 has the rpm thing been confirmed somewhere? Feb 15 11:45:42 Lantizia1: Maemo 6 would have been Qt anyway - and which packaging system is used shouldn't matter at all. Feb 15 11:46:43 Lantizia1: of course, it's a computer gadget. it's been outdated the moment it was announced Feb 15 11:47:13 Lantizia1, it's not always the better concept that wins ... Feb 15 11:47:27 lardman: the development of moblin is based on fedora ( or a fork of it) but moblin as been ported to ubuntu which uses debs Feb 15 11:47:30 villemv, at least on the #meego channel Feb 15 11:47:33 * tybollt ... betamax vhs, anyone? Feb 15 11:47:35 villemv, I don't think so. recent moblin has used rpm apparently, so that's why i fuess. Feb 15 11:47:37 rpm based? Will meego use rpm? Feb 15 11:47:38 guess Feb 15 11:48:03 <_berto_> yes Feb 15 11:48:22 <_berto_> «dirkhh: MeeGo will be rpm based» Feb 15 11:48:24 mh. -.- Feb 15 11:48:42 * tybollt cringes Feb 15 11:48:54 villemv, dirkhh (an Intel employee) did confirm on the #meego channel that Meego WILL be based on rpm Feb 15 11:48:58 they should use pacman. (obviously) Feb 15 11:49:09 What? Feb 15 11:49:19 mairas: Just right now on #meego they said no Feb 15 11:49:41 Almost feels like we had all the work and all the positives and now we're getting saddled with THOSE guys as a reward. lol Feb 15 11:49:45 _berto_: when/where did dirkhh say that ? Feb 15 11:49:49 And now they're trying to change shit on us. Feb 15 11:49:52 <_berto_> lbt: #meego @ freenode Feb 15 11:49:58 well, rpm is livable I guess Feb 15 11:50:00 zerojay: But WHAT ABOUT THE MASCOT?! Feb 15 11:50:24 Jaffa: It's gonna be that kid Jake from Family Guy. Feb 15 11:50:25 _berto_: before I joined Feb 15 11:50:38 Hukka, you mis-interpreted: he said it's not based on Fedora (well, Moblin was forked from it a long time ago, so it's a matter of taste) but it IS based on rpm Feb 15 11:50:39 yet an another platform change.. Feb 15 11:50:46 zerojay: lol Feb 15 11:50:58 New Meego mascot: http://johnferndesign.com/familyGuySite/fg_wallpapers/1280x960_jakeTucker.jpg Feb 15 11:51:06 lol zerojay Feb 15 11:51:34 from #meego: (1:50:54 PM) dirkhh: MeeGo is indeed rpm based Feb 15 11:52:06 rpm rules Feb 15 11:52:18 Everybody who starts whining because of the packaging system which is used: Go out and buy an OS X machine. After that be happy, that there is packaging at all. Feb 15 11:52:32 ...or Windows Feb 15 11:53:10 I don't really care about packaging, but... well... have moblin devices been successful at all? I don't know of anything, but I could be wrong. Feb 15 11:53:21 zerojay: Have there been any? Feb 15 11:53:28 Is MeeGo just going to be a set of "ideals" and "standards" like the LSB but for embedded shit... that Maemo 6 will adhear to? Or an actual OS to replace the Maemo project entirely? Feb 15 11:53:30 I don't think so. Feb 15 11:53:41 zerojay: moblin is (AFAIK) a fork from fedora Feb 15 11:53:46 I've tried it, but not on a touch screeen device. Feb 15 11:53:48 from that stable at least Feb 15 11:53:55 Whereas Maemo has had some successes... so why are we bending to shit like "we're going RPM?" Feb 15 11:54:03 zerojay, it's not really just about Moblin, it's Nokia and Intel putting their combined effort in one basket Feb 15 11:54:10 screw em Feb 15 11:54:12 Well, moblin seems to be going Qt, that's a bit more of a bend :) Feb 15 11:54:26 qt \o/ Feb 15 11:54:34 And really, Intel has probably put a lot more resources to Moblin than Nokia ever to Maemo Feb 15 11:54:51 but Maemo is more of a success Feb 15 11:54:55 keep it seperate! Feb 15 11:55:07 Lantizia1: you can make a fork :) Feb 15 11:55:11 * Lantizia1 starts a petition Feb 15 11:55:22 And you get a meego tablet right next to your meego phone. Though the name really is shitty. Feb 15 11:55:36 * tybollt starts a petition against lnatizials petition Feb 15 11:55:58 mhm Feb 15 11:56:07 * mece starts a petition against petitions Feb 15 11:57:05 I wonder if it still makes sense to run maemo.org elections if the governance will change anyway. Feb 15 11:57:29 don't we have Maemo has a seperate community to prevent this kind of shit? Feb 15 11:57:50 <_berto_> "LeeGo would have been better. 'Yours parts of the platform'" Feb 15 11:58:01 aahaha Feb 15 11:58:29 Big Boss: "We are going to combine with moblin and dump our platform, for 6th time was it? Make it happen" Feb 15 11:58:38 MeeGoo what s an horrible name ! Feb 15 11:58:54 Does meego include ofono? Feb 15 11:58:54 Hi everybody ! Feb 15 11:59:01 so rather than fusing maemo and moblin... meego will be moblin w/ small parts of maemo sprinkled on top? Feb 15 11:59:12 and qt qt qt qt qt qt ... burk Feb 15 12:01:00 does the hildon desktop window that contains the applications grid have a name? Feb 15 12:01:19 just fyi #meego is alive... Feb 15 12:01:35 lbt, a bit too alive, i say ;) Feb 15 12:01:42 heh Feb 15 12:01:47 ensi, desktop ;) Feb 15 12:02:13 can someone wake marius up and see if he can get infobot into #meego Feb 15 12:02:27 lcuk, so you can ~lart people? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 15 12:02:31 2010 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 15 12:02:51 2010 Feb 15 12:02:57 hi Feb 15 12:03:08 hy Feb 15 12:03:11 Do You know if there is any atuomake variable that points to the project root? Feb 15 12:03:12 crowd here Feb 15 12:04:08 kkito: Necc: just fyi #meego is alive... Feb 15 12:04:21 inz: hmm i'm trying to figure out how to get a list of running applications (those ones that have a visible window). any ides? Feb 15 12:04:32 and of course maemo-moblin merge will happen after maemo 6? :) Feb 15 12:04:34 been looking at the output of wxinfo but dunno hmm Feb 15 12:04:55 i just read about it, but it not exist yet as end-user product Feb 15 12:06:00 ensi, ah, that view, I got you wrong... no idea, sorry :( Feb 15 12:06:01 maemo 6 should be considered a meego instance Feb 15 12:06:07 Open MeeGo ... wait for merging openmoko :P Feb 15 12:06:15 * cehteh runs Feb 15 12:06:18 ensi, I think it should work the same way as any other X windowing though Feb 15 12:06:30 you guys know you can talk about meego on #meego? Feb 15 12:06:36 inz: heh that doesn't help much much cause i dont know much about X windowing :) Feb 15 12:06:39 ensi, emphasis on the word "should" though Feb 15 12:06:46 ensi, me neither =) Feb 15 12:07:23 if there's an icccm compliant manager they're listed in the root window Feb 15 12:08:01 xprop -root Feb 15 12:08:08 look at _NET_CLIENT_LIST_STACKING Feb 15 12:08:43 is the forum getting a bit stressed? Feb 15 12:09:06 adeus: yeah that gives me a shitload of window ids Feb 15 12:09:17 theny you have a shitload of windows :) Feb 15 12:09:27 i only have like 5 apps running, and i'm only interested in the top level windows of these applications Feb 15 12:10:06 <_berto_> ensi: gdk_screen_get_toplevel_windows () ? Feb 15 12:10:20 you can also query for the _NET_WM_PID atom for their pids Feb 15 12:10:54 _berto_: thanks sounds good at least :) Feb 15 12:11:39 I'm guessing that will be the same list Feb 15 12:12:10 perhaps limited to the main window per process Feb 15 12:14:14 you can also look at the WM_STATE info Feb 15 12:15:22 adeus: with xprop per window id? Feb 15 12:15:32 for example Feb 15 12:15:43 xwininfo -root -tree Feb 15 12:15:47 for a generic picture Feb 15 12:16:00 yeah Feb 15 12:16:43 does anyone know how to use hildon_button_set_value to set the initial value for a *multicolumn* picker button? Feb 15 12:17:01 Or if that is even possible? Feb 15 12:20:08 Jaffa: ping Feb 15 12:21:14 * RST38h checks MWC news and laughs satanically Feb 15 12:21:26 ALL YOUR BASE... Feb 15 12:21:43 tmo seems slow :< Feb 15 12:21:44 Too soon. Feb 15 12:22:35 Whats the relation of LiMo and Moblin?? Feb 15 12:23:01 too many acronyms for me to keep up with Feb 15 12:23:11 no relation Feb 15 12:23:12 * lardman wonders if LiMo is similar to LiPo Feb 15 12:23:21 guysoft422: ignore untill devices released ;) Feb 15 12:23:32 wtf? Feb 15 12:23:50 glass, strange.. our israeli coverage say that "Maemo and LiMo are merging" are they idiots? Feb 15 12:23:54 lardman: Plenty of lipo in this here gut... Feb 15 12:24:01 some guys have been pulling money from limo&moblin for a decade now? Feb 15 12:24:12 they gotta do something Feb 15 12:24:39 guysoft422: look at companies behind limo,moblin and other such alliances Feb 15 12:24:46 the writer is the representative of Nokia in Israel... Feb 15 12:24:52 tybollt: don't drink any water or you're liable to explode ;) Feb 15 12:25:00 guysoft422: doesn't matter who the writer is Feb 15 12:25:19 guysoft: Yes, they are idiots. Feb 15 12:25:25 glass, the question is if that is a valid statement. Is it like saying Debian and Ubuntu? Feb 15 12:25:35 guysoft422: could he answer the question what's the difference between limo and debian? probably nhot Feb 15 12:26:13 glass, well if so, i sould send them an e-mail to correct it! Feb 15 12:26:26 guysoft422: you'd be sending mails every week ;) Feb 15 12:26:37 if it's shitty journalism, don't read the site Feb 15 12:26:49 if you read it, they get viewers and win Feb 15 12:27:58 glass, its the biggest internet news site in Israel, and yes, they are morons, when they covered our OLPC pilot they said i was from "Peres center for peace" Instead of "open source community" Feb 15 12:28:11 guysoft422: lol Feb 15 12:28:23 guysoft422: do they also sensor pictures of women?-D Feb 15 12:28:32 from mece: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/meego-time.html "Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance." Feb 15 12:28:32 form cabinet pics Feb 15 12:29:39 crashanddie: pong Feb 15 12:29:47 glass, believe me i tried looking the other way. but its useful to keep an eye at what the average idiot hears in computers. if people ask me about something stupid written there, at least i know what on earth they want from me, and what they are reading Feb 15 12:29:53 guysoft422: don't feel too bad. finnish it-news magazines suck seriously Feb 15 12:30:04 glass, sometimes, depends how much there is to sensor :) Feb 15 12:32:16 meego sounds awful, really Feb 15 12:37:32 hi, is there any problem with autobuilder? I've uploaded a package a few hours ago, it was built successfully but was not imported Feb 15 12:38:21 I guess it will mean that those cheap Chinese devices will at least be able to have the same base system as the Nokia devices, which can't be a bad thing Feb 15 12:48:16 is it possible to limit data transfer to wifi only (without turning off 3g)? Feb 15 12:48:33 on maemo5/n900 Feb 15 12:48:57 sobczyk: yes of course Feb 15 12:49:49 Is MeeGo supposed to come in place of Maemo 6 or is that for later? Feb 15 12:49:53 tybollt, is it simple operation? I'm going to korea and will be wardriving for voip :) I don't want to pay high bill for roaming Feb 15 12:50:13 sobczyk: you simply set to 'always ask' Feb 15 12:50:19 lardman: cooperations like this one seem to be neccessary when i look at the droid companies out there Feb 15 12:50:24 Probably wrong channel. Feb 15 12:50:26 sobczyk: and it will never connect over gsm without asking Feb 15 12:50:51 wow great, big plus over android Feb 15 12:51:02 thorbjorn: Jaaksi's blog said "Maemo 6 will be an instance of MeeGo" Feb 15 12:51:15 sobczyk: yeah it is in settings Feb 15 12:51:19 bergie: Ah, great. Feb 15 12:51:56 It's a major problem for end-user experience. Feb 15 12:52:06 user experience? Feb 15 12:52:18 For that reason I have doubts that it'll ever upgrade OTA on n900 Feb 15 12:52:45 timeless: AIUI - the UI will - totally - change. Your phone will - over one day - completely change behaviour. Feb 15 12:52:47 SpeedEvil: huh what does ota updating has to do w/ that?= Feb 15 12:52:55 wtf !! Feb 15 12:52:57 http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1591915/intel-nokia-launch-meego Feb 15 12:53:05 Ceron^: we noticed. Feb 15 12:53:09 the end of maemo :\? Feb 15 12:53:23 the end of teh world, hehe:-) Feb 15 12:53:26 im rather disapointed :( Feb 15 12:53:29 yes good night sweet maemo Feb 15 12:54:27 i have a feeling the next community council is gonna have their hands full Feb 15 12:54:43 Ceron^: why disappointed? Or, what causes that feeling? Something changing clearly for worse? Feb 15 12:54:45 tybollt: I mean - I doubt that you'll see meego/maemo 6 - updated onto the n900 as OTA. Forcibly switching users would be nsane. Feb 15 12:55:18 yeh :( Feb 15 12:55:36 this clearly sucks Feb 15 12:55:57 and it's 100% certain that meego won't get released for N8x0 Feb 15 12:55:57 Ceron^: so, what is changing clearly for worse? Feb 15 12:56:00 So I'm making my first deb package. I'm following the wiki guide, finished writing the changelog, and now I want to run dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot -k but this gives me: "bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'" Feb 15 12:56:07 so there goes that Feb 15 12:56:11 What's this supposed to mean. I don't have any bash scripts in my own source. Feb 15 12:56:13 SpeedEvil: don't worry mate Feb 15 12:56:23 harder to port apps :( Feb 15 12:56:32 SpeedEvil: DO worry about getting any further support for your current device ... at all Feb 15 12:56:38 shapeshifter: you need to quote less-th" and greater-than Feb 15 12:56:56 timeless: ahh, thanks Feb 15 12:57:01 tybollt: I'm unsure. I would suspect that tehre is very likely to be a n900 release of meego Feb 15 12:57:08 -k "..." Feb 15 12:57:12 timeless: yep yep Feb 15 12:57:29 SpeedEvil: based on what? Feb 15 12:57:30 shapeshifer: if the instructions are in a wiki, please fix Feb 15 12:57:31 tybollt: I just doubt it would ever make sense for nokia not to maintain some level of support for maemo. Feb 15 12:57:49 timeless: yep Feb 15 12:57:52 tybollt: my understanding of the market only. And where everythings at. I could be completly wrong. Feb 15 12:57:57 SpeedEvil: last I heard was genA ranting around here about M6 likely not comming to the device. Feb 15 12:58:35 timeless: well, is it supposed to be -k my@address.com or -k "". I mean, should the < > be part of the -k parameter? Feb 15 12:58:50 developers will stop working on maemo5 now :\ Feb 15 12:58:53 and wait for that damn meego Feb 15 12:58:57 tybollt: I guess announces may happen in the next few days. Or maybe not. Feb 15 12:59:00 Ceron^: the bet was always -develop for qt- Feb 15 12:59:10 Ceron^: they didn't stop developing for maemo5 knowing that maemo6 was coming up fast Feb 15 12:59:29 seriously, il hafto sell this phone fast before it looses all its worth Feb 15 12:59:40 soon development goes down to 0 Feb 15 12:59:48 £10 Feb 15 12:59:50 SpeedEvil: put your money where you mouth is... I'll wager EUR 100 that is not the case... w/in a month there'll be nothing for the device :) Feb 15 12:59:52 and nokia didnt even relase a working ovistore yet Feb 15 12:59:57 release Feb 15 13:00:05 Ceron^: my point exactly Feb 15 13:00:15 Ceron^: 20EUR Feb 15 13:00:22 tybollt: 100 euro would ATM put me deeply into the red - so no. Feb 15 13:00:27 im seriously angry now :\ Feb 15 13:00:30 (I think that's more than ten quid even with Greece doing it's thing :) Feb 15 13:00:37 maemo was never even considered an ovi device is my best guess. Feb 15 13:00:49 lol? Feb 15 13:01:24 nokia just playd us all really good Feb 15 13:01:30 nah Feb 15 13:01:40 they're actually expanding the playing field Feb 15 13:01:46 how so? Feb 15 13:02:14 they are making the supporters of maemo5 who just bought a new phone, found out that there operative system on the phone is already defunc. Feb 15 13:02:20 heh .. i ever saied that maemos most weakness is that it is a single-vendor platform Feb 15 13:02:42 meego opens this .. more devices to choose from different vendors Feb 15 13:03:02 of course there will be unfortunate compromises Feb 15 13:03:06 what other devices? Feb 15 13:03:11 in future Feb 15 13:03:12 yeh tell me? Feb 15 13:03:14 what other? Feb 15 13:03:15 all the ... intel mobile phones/netbooks? ehr? Feb 15 13:03:28 Intel netbook with meego Feb 15 13:03:42 almost like Apple IPad Feb 15 13:03:48 * tybollt goes *POP* like a lemming Feb 15 13:04:22 the reason i supported maemo and bought a n900 was because i predicted it the os would stay alive for sometime :\ Feb 15 13:04:23 Ceron^: C'mon, sell the phone already and go drink with the money, and not just rant Feb 15 13:04:30 clearly now nokia is pushing maemo down the drain :( Feb 15 13:04:40 Ceron^: Or if you want to stick around, then don't keep saying there's no point Feb 15 13:04:45 and who says that Ceron^ Feb 15 13:04:47 Ceron^: Hmm, that's a strange conclusion. Feb 15 13:04:48 stop being an emo Feb 15 13:04:48 Ceron^: this merger doesnt mean that the os dies Feb 15 13:04:54 or change the channel pls Feb 15 13:04:54 Personally I've no inclination to stop deving for Fremantle Feb 15 13:05:08 but you have to! Feb 15 13:05:12 nokia tells you not to! Feb 15 13:05:15 I know that it will work with Harmattan too, and probably be easy to port to whatever is next, since it's Qt Feb 15 13:05:24 well, it doesnt. but it's IRC, i can tell whatever i want. Feb 15 13:05:45 emo's aside - the issue is still - and I don't see any of your wide-mouths answering that... Will meego be moblin w/ a little bit of maemo sprinkled on top or will it be a full on fusion between the two? Feb 15 13:05:54 thresh "say", not "tell" Feb 15 13:06:02 thanks Feb 15 13:06:15 tybollt: How should we know, after three hours? Ask again in two weeks, when we have the source Feb 15 13:06:21 tybollt: it sounds like the ui will be mostly maemo6 Feb 15 13:06:31 moblin will be something like android :l probally Feb 15 13:06:40 and some lower level architecture will be mostly meego Feb 15 13:06:45 tomorrow is a q&a for meego at twitter Feb 15 13:06:47 tybollt: it says on the page that the underlying stuff will be moblin Feb 15 13:06:55 so, that answers the question Feb 15 13:06:59 however you rephrase it Feb 15 13:07:09 Ceron^: Of course it will. It will use JAva, that isnt' JAva... wait ummm. I mean it will have it's off-tree kernel... no, not that either... umm... Feb 15 13:08:03 which isnt that bad moblin is linux kernel with gnu userland too .. maybe even less propietary things than maemo has already Feb 15 13:08:17 and not a java vm like android Feb 15 13:08:23 Shapeshifter: ack, but I want this from !webpage, I'd love for a nookla to elaborate on that :) Feb 15 13:08:38 * tybollt pours timesless a drink :) Feb 15 13:09:01 * timeless fines tybollt for an excess s Feb 15 13:09:21 * tybollt apologies Feb 15 13:09:24 timesless looks like some dead bird: *< Feb 15 13:09:49 hi inz, in town? Feb 15 13:10:08 timeless, this time in Tampere, which you might even concider a town, although just about to leave Feb 15 13:10:38 *g* Feb 15 13:10:39 timeless: Reporting a bug that has to do w/ flash, will it be a no brainer WONTFIX or will it be looked at? Feb 15 13:11:16 timeless, almost came to Hell(sinki) last friday, but TelCo'd instead Feb 15 13:11:28 everything's gonna be awesome. Anyway, dpkg-buildpackage built my package, and I was able to install it on my n900 and the app runs. However, I'm using a couple of images in my app, which I naturally place in /usr/share/iculounge. (e.g. in my Makefile I have 'cp open.png /usr/share/iculounge', maybe I should make that 'install -Dm644 ...') but this stuff is missing, and I looked into the .deb file and its missing there as well. Feb 15 13:11:34 How do I need to do this correctly? Feb 15 13:11:49 Moblin can get screwed, do not discontinue Maemo - please Feb 15 13:12:02 ok, i would not Feb 15 13:12:20 Lantizia1: ok we wont Feb 15 13:12:30 sarcasm? :) Feb 15 13:12:35 guess Feb 15 13:12:37 yes Feb 15 13:12:57 bazinga Feb 15 13:13:03 I'm still unclear if this does or doesn't mean the end of Maemo Feb 15 13:13:08 lantizia1: devs have no control over managers Feb 15 13:13:29 or management Feb 15 13:13:36 Does it mean the end of maemo? Feb 15 13:13:53 Lantizia1: depends on what you mean by "the end" Feb 15 13:14:05 i.e. a seperate distribution based on debian called Maemo Feb 15 13:14:06 I assume. Feb 15 13:14:06 maemo is an evolving ecosystem Feb 15 13:14:09 thresh, :D Feb 15 13:14:15 thats what I mean Feb 15 13:14:15 end is near!! Feb 15 13:14:23 WE ALL GONA DIE Feb 15 13:14:25 each release of maemo has been fairly different from its predecessor Feb 15 13:14:29 oups i missed one N Feb 15 13:14:29 panic is near :P Feb 15 13:14:29 Lantizia1: relax. Feb 15 13:14:36 Die? [yn] Feb 15 13:14:41 note that maemo was never a distribution Feb 15 13:14:46 MeeGo is rpm based, right? that's what irks me, but oh well :) Feb 15 13:14:46 Mer is Feb 15 13:14:57 lynoure: i believe so Feb 15 13:15:08 Maemo is as much as a distrubtion as Mer Feb 15 13:15:14 Lynoure, according to #meego, yes Feb 15 13:15:16 i wonder why people are against rpm Feb 15 13:15:20 it's shit Feb 15 13:15:23 nothing really bad with it Feb 15 13:15:29 thresh: because NIH Feb 15 13:15:39 * ifreq pets hes n900.. there there i still love you Feb 15 13:15:40 yeah, many maintainers cant write proper spec files, but it's not a tool issue Feb 15 13:15:49 hi Feb 15 13:15:53 anyone use symbian? Feb 15 13:15:57 we all do here. Feb 15 13:16:11 Hah Feb 15 13:16:11 only maemo? Feb 15 13:16:12 thresh: preferences. Feb 15 13:16:12 Come someone _please_ clarify... does this mean the end of a debian based distribution continuing in the future? (i.e. what we know of as Maemo) Feb 15 13:16:13 do we Feb 15 13:16:26 jokeer89, i did. but now i am in pleasureland Feb 15 13:16:30 Lantizia1: there'll still be fremantle afterlife. Feb 15 13:16:32 Lantizia1: yes it does Feb 15 13:16:41 I don't want an afterlife! Feb 15 13:16:51 furunk3l can you help me? Feb 15 13:16:53 no one really uses symbian, people just suffer it, it's like a disease Feb 15 13:17:00 jokeer89, i dont know Feb 15 13:17:07 At least rpm gives nice progress bar on command line when installing packages =) Feb 15 13:17:09 any hints on my /usr/share problem? Feb 15 13:17:10 thresh: Nothing wrong with rpm, as such, but I'm otherwise a debian kind of girl, would prefer similar packaging instead of having to deal with two (and alien is not sufficient as a solution) Feb 15 13:17:12 jokeer89, that depends on your issues ;) Feb 15 13:17:21 its easy Feb 15 13:17:21 okay Feb 15 13:17:23 fuck this think I'll sell my N900 Feb 15 13:17:23 * tybollt envisions nothing more on the n900, perhaps a bug fix update - feature freeze. then new device Q2 this tear w/ dinGOO os. Feb 15 13:17:26 * thresh uses both Feb 15 13:17:28 i want to programming a notes for symbian Feb 15 13:17:34 it's dead already Feb 15 13:17:39 what is the best language? Feb 15 13:17:46 i can do this with python? Feb 15 13:17:47 jokeer89: chinese? Feb 15 13:17:52 jokeer89: elisp Feb 15 13:17:52 spanish Feb 15 13:17:54 What's the big deal about rpm? Feb 15 13:18:00 it's shit Feb 15 13:18:11 It's just another packaging system. They make it work and you won't have to worry about it. Feb 15 13:18:15 rpm always reminds me of a classic bug report https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=119185 Feb 15 13:18:17 Bug 119185: was not found. Feb 15 13:18:25 http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture looks interesting Feb 15 13:18:30 a fun read if you're reaallly bored :) Feb 15 13:18:42 exactly adeus Feb 15 13:18:50 this is waht i want to do: Feb 15 13:18:51 http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193098 Feb 15 13:18:57 Lantizia1: because rpm are way much slower than deb Feb 15 13:19:00 the whole rpm system is whoefully not as advanced as deb Feb 15 13:19:12 jokeer89: for Python for Symbian, better ask on #symbian ;) Feb 15 13:19:22 but anyoones is online Feb 15 13:19:23 ok Feb 15 13:19:32 and debian has ruled on embedded systems for years - why on earth switch now? Feb 15 13:19:39 lizardo: funny, #symbian is a ghosttown Feb 15 13:19:47 sorry jokeer89, no can do Feb 15 13:19:48 yes.. Feb 15 13:20:14 I wouldn't touch symbian with a long stick if I had the choice. Feb 15 13:20:20 timeless: yes, it has always been a lot less popular then #maemo and now #meebo ;) Feb 15 13:20:21 but what mobiles the people have on this channel? Feb 15 13:20:22 * bigon doesn't remember with who he talks about syncevolution and ipv6 on friday :( Feb 15 13:20:36 n900? Feb 15 13:20:39 Yup Feb 15 13:20:40 bigon: grep the logs, if you have any? Feb 15 13:20:41 i quite enjoyed my 5800. however the n900 is far superior :) Feb 15 13:20:46 timeless: but I've seen a couple of PyS60 related questions answered there (but not many, unfortunately) Feb 15 13:20:48 jokeer89: i'm chatting from an n900 Feb 15 13:20:49 5800 its symbian Feb 15 13:21:02 i have n85 and its symbian lol Feb 15 13:21:02 lizardo: really? wow Feb 15 13:21:15 jokeer89: "it's" Feb 15 13:21:27 it's Feb 15 13:21:48 can i create a db using python ? Feb 15 13:22:13 timeless: wich irc client do you use? Feb 15 13:22:23 ircii i think Feb 15 13:22:36 it's in a remote screen session Feb 15 13:22:43 jokeer89: create = code from scratch? why? or create = create in mysql/postgres/sqlite? yes. Feb 15 13:22:48 timeless: Flash from the back :) Feb 15 13:23:03 create in the phone Feb 15 13:23:09 not on a online server Feb 15 13:23:18 timeless: yep, ircII :) Feb 15 13:23:29 create a new aplication and a db for the aplication on the phone Feb 15 13:24:08 jokeer89: that's a yes. You can probably even run mysql or postgres on N900... sqlite certainly :) Feb 15 13:24:15 ... maybe intel has faster servers than nokia, that would be an advantage :P Feb 15 13:24:16 i must say, meego's sire is a lot more professional than symbian's Feb 15 13:24:25 s/sire/site/ Feb 15 13:24:25 timeless meant: i must say, meego's site is a lot more professional than symbian's Feb 15 13:24:31 i have symbian Feb 15 13:24:44 the unreliability of the nokia servers is close to spectacular Feb 15 13:25:07 one person says me: it is possible to create you own database using e32dbm, e32db or pickle module (just to cite some alternatives). Feb 15 13:25:41 satmd: did you investigate the syncevolution and ipv6 problem further? Feb 15 13:25:52 jokeer89: try joining #pys60 Feb 15 13:25:56 Lynoure: fennec already uses sqlite Feb 15 13:25:59 thanks libben Feb 15 13:26:20 jokeer89: PyS60 == Python running on Symbian Feb 15 13:26:21 is it posible to install maemo on n85? Feb 15 13:26:25 yes i know. Feb 15 13:26:41 SpeedEvil: yes. I said "certainly" Feb 15 13:26:53 jokeer89: Maemo is for Nokia internet tablets, i.e. N770 , N800, N810, N900 Feb 15 13:26:58 SpeedEvil: even my own project uses sqlite. Feb 15 13:27:09 ok for rich people heh Feb 15 13:27:16 jokeer89: Python should have sqlite support builtint. Not sure if Symbian has stripped it, though. Feb 15 13:27:33 i document about this Feb 15 13:27:35 i really need to get around and get me a dataplan with my mobileprovider... Feb 15 13:28:00 i want only to create a new notes apliccation for syncrhonize on a webserver page that i create Feb 15 13:28:04 seems easy? Feb 15 13:28:42 jokeer89: depends on the details. Just get started :) Feb 15 13:29:04 thanks people Feb 15 13:29:21 i go to pys60 and symbian channels but seems dead channels Feb 15 13:29:59 jokeer89: read the topic there ... "just ask your question and wait" Feb 15 13:30:21 bigon: no, didn't Feb 15 13:30:26 ok Feb 15 13:30:42 i see that pys60 have sqlite Feb 15 13:30:59 Then use that, don't roll your own. It's better Feb 15 13:31:25 good hehe Feb 15 13:31:33 i go to shcool Feb 15 13:31:34 thankss Feb 15 13:32:01 but python is the best way? Feb 15 13:32:07 or java or symbian c++ Feb 15 13:32:52 jokeer89: best is the enemy of good... I tend to get into analysis paralysis with 'best'. Does it need to be the best way? Feb 15 13:32:59 symbian c++ is dead now Feb 15 13:33:03 jokeer89: Overall, I'd say yes. But I don't know on symbian Feb 15 13:33:05 steer clear Feb 15 13:33:19 jokeer89: Seems like this is a new thing to you, PYthon is generally easier to learn Feb 15 13:33:38 yes its new for me programming with phone's Feb 15 13:33:43 i read about python is easy Feb 15 13:33:55 and i do some example and its very easy the language Feb 15 13:33:57 and shorter Feb 15 13:34:08 but i dont know if have limitations Feb 15 13:34:38 Go and find out Feb 15 13:34:40 jokeer89: it's very versatile. but can be slow in some uses. Yours does not sound like such a use. Feb 15 13:35:10 The biggest problems will be the possible limitations on PyS60 compared to "full" Python. I don't know what they are, if there are any Feb 15 13:35:30 a few years ago i told myself never get too involved with computer's and the likes again... now the n900 made me want to learn programing again. Feb 15 13:36:07 i take it i should focus on qt for now ? learn that then learn something else later? Feb 15 13:36:15 Lynoure what? python is no good for what i want to do Feb 15 13:36:17 How can I refresh the icon cache? When I install a new app, it usually happens that there's just a blue square as the icon. After a while, it shows the correct icon. Can I do this manually? Feb 15 13:36:22 need to check if my icon is working Feb 15 13:36:33 jokeer89: She's saying you don't need speed Feb 15 13:36:44 jokeer89: she said it'd be fine. Feb 15 13:36:51 jokeer89: So it's fine. Now go and try things. We have spoken. Feb 15 13:36:56 ok xdd sorry my enlgish Feb 15 13:37:08 And not knowing what you're talking about, I'd say learning and developing in python is probably the best solution for you rioght now anyway. Feb 15 13:37:15 i go tomorrow! Feb 15 13:37:26 Shapeshifter: Hm, what about adding a shortcut to desktop? Feb 15 13:37:27 Hukka: thanks for interpreting. :) Feb 15 13:37:41 <|R> Holy shit MeeGo (just woke up, sorry :P) Feb 15 13:37:44 Shapeshifter: I think that rechecks the icon, since it needs a different size than the app menu Feb 15 13:37:55 Hukka: did that. It doesn't update the icons for me Feb 15 13:38:00 |R: /j #meego Feb 15 13:38:07 Shapeshifter: Reboot... Sorry, don't know Feb 15 13:38:17 yeah rebooting works :P Feb 15 13:38:45 <|R> oh :) Feb 15 13:39:09 Hi, is there any way to get ">" or "<" on Nokia N900 (tried to google, but no answer" Feb 15 13:39:12 )* Feb 15 13:39:29 iPeter-: You mean on xterm, or what? Feb 15 13:39:44 On converstations (sms etc) Feb 15 13:39:59 iPeter-: in my layout, --> + strg + pick < > on the onscreen keyboard, works Feb 15 13:40:08 enable onscreen keyboard is the solution I found Feb 15 13:40:12 iPeter-: Did you try the symbols menu? Feb 15 13:40:16 or self-define some key combos Feb 15 13:40:45 Hukka: Thanks. I have been thinking what is that "Sym" button, there it was. Thank you. Feb 15 13:41:09 cehteh, nid0: KISS, guys, KISS :) Feb 15 13:41:18 whee, gnu coreutils are in extras or extras testing Feb 15 13:41:24 who you calling stupid there hukka? :) Feb 15 13:41:25 finally better coreutils Feb 15 13:41:29 I miss my e90 keyboard :( Feb 15 13:41:30 heh Feb 15 13:41:33 Milo-: Well that was ambiguous :) Feb 15 13:41:45 tybollt: Not you! Feb 15 13:41:54 for emacs you want some extra keys and not the on-screen keyboard :P Feb 15 13:42:01 Hukka not sure where they are, yet.. Feb 15 13:42:21 emacs fail Feb 15 13:42:29 Hey, second question. Is there anyway to use 2 simcards on N900? I got one card with free sms + calling to my GF and one card is to my "personal" use. Is there anyway to use multiple cards. Like copy that chip or something. Feb 15 13:42:29 maemo's default coreutils is stripped down version Feb 15 13:42:37 iPeter-, no Feb 15 13:42:43 iPeter-: no Feb 15 13:42:55 iPeter-, well - not without another phone Feb 15 13:42:55 you could always buy a cheap chinese n900 knockoff Feb 15 13:42:59 iPeter-: You don't consider texting your GF to be personal :? Feb 15 13:43:08 most of the clones tend to be dual sim Feb 15 13:43:10 Heh, someone was just saying meego will run on N900 Feb 15 13:43:11 Hukka: Its work :D Feb 15 13:43:12 Hukka: actually seeing as I'm a hurri and all.. I guess I am a bit stupid :) Feb 15 13:43:15 a job (: Feb 15 13:43:15 in the #meego channel. Feb 15 13:43:44 tybollt: But don't worry, we underperform :) Feb 15 13:43:55 iPeter-, another phone over bt could be used to make calls - but... Feb 15 13:44:00 satmd: ok I I will report the bug then... where should I repport then ? Feb 15 13:44:08 upstream? Feb 15 13:44:18 tybollt: (There was an article in this Tech&Economy magazine, that even when we are better than you swedes, we underperform. Like in ice hockey, or something... :) Feb 15 13:44:37 N900evil: Hmm, so i should buy other phone and i could bt pair em, and i can select what card i use to make call / sms? Feb 15 13:45:14 iPeter-, in principle yes. the software doesn't support this though. Feb 15 13:45:24 Ofc it doesnt :E Feb 15 13:45:30 Hukka: Why did I know you would mention hockey? :P Feb 15 13:45:48 tybollt: I don't even follow it, so I don't have a clue on what's happened Feb 15 13:46:05 I just read the article when doing my thing at the loo in the morning Feb 15 13:46:20 iPeter-: you can't expect it to do this Feb 15 13:46:41 iPeter-: and even if you did get another phone, the calls would have to go *through* that other phone Feb 15 13:46:52 iPeter-: it's not like the phone would just provide you with SIM details Feb 15 13:47:11 bigon: I'm not exactly sure Feb 15 13:47:15 wait, what Feb 15 13:47:24 I don't think it's syncevolution's fault Feb 15 13:47:29 maemo + moblin? Feb 15 13:47:30 wth Feb 15 13:47:34 but a probalem with the .deb built for maemo Feb 15 13:47:48 -a Feb 15 13:48:49 "Not charging, insufficient power" Feb 15 13:49:12 cool havent seen that before Feb 15 13:50:39 crashanddie: Okay. Well, i dont know what i should to do. Getting to high phone bills coz i talk too much with my gf on the phone, and sms. Feb 15 13:51:13 iPeter-: and that is our problem because? Feb 15 13:51:22 It aint (: Feb 15 13:51:34 iPeter-: just get a better bloody contract, or swap SIM cards Feb 15 13:51:37 get a fixed cost data plan and use skype and IM Feb 15 13:52:16 mm, maybe i have to get another phone. Thanks anyway Feb 15 13:53:06 so it's the phones fault when you blab too much with your gf?-) Feb 15 13:53:19 quick question: how does having the phone permantly connected to internett thru 3g/hsdpa affect batterylife? havent tryed it myself yet. Feb 15 13:53:47 having it connect 24/7 that is. Feb 15 13:54:02 wtf Feb 15 13:54:02 * RichiH mumbles Feb 15 13:54:05 did I miss something? Feb 15 13:54:09 Netrum, I only get about 3 hours per charge if I'm doing heavy data transfer via 3G on my N900. Feb 15 13:54:13 yesterday, i finally decided to buy a n900 Feb 15 13:54:13 what's this meego shit? Feb 15 13:54:18 today, meego is announced Feb 15 13:54:24 crashanddie: big time, mate :) Feb 15 13:54:33 RichiH: it is a plus Feb 15 13:54:43 Netrum: Doesn't affect, unless you are moving data Feb 15 13:54:49 crashanddie: intel moblin + nokia maemo == meego as of today Feb 15 13:54:53 see ari jaaksi bog Feb 15 13:54:54 (Compared to just having non data packet network connection on) Feb 15 13:54:55 Ty Feb 15 13:55:19 Netrum: But things like skype being on the status bar does affect it a lot Feb 15 13:55:20 fuck, this is definitely not good Feb 15 13:55:23 Stskeeps: as much as maemo 5 for the n810? oh, wait, there _is_ no maemo 5 for the n810 Feb 15 13:55:28 I keep the data connection on, but IM off Feb 15 13:55:31 RichiH: mer Feb 15 13:55:36 from a technical standpoint, it seems they trashed the lower levels of Maemo and are going to be using Moblin's. Feb 15 13:55:39 anyone done a comparison on skype versus regular phonecall when it comes to battery drainage ? Feb 15 13:55:42 crashanddie: well, yes. but still Feb 15 13:55:52 RichiH: MeGoo is OSS. Feb 15 13:56:01 but the GUI layer of Maemo (or maybe both) Feb 15 13:56:12 RichiH: well, it was always quite well known that maemo 6 might not support the n900 Feb 15 13:56:14 RichiH: which makes things a hell lot easier Feb 15 13:56:52 Stskeeps: not all of maemo is (same for meego, i would assume). gsm interfaces and some applications Feb 15 13:56:53 but I don't want to lose maemo ffs Feb 15 13:57:05 RichiH: ofono runs on top of Mer. Feb 15 13:57:18 RichiH: but let's see where this leads us. Feb 15 13:57:38 crashanddie: yah, i always assumed that meamo 6 would not run on the n900, but dropping the name will not exactly make developers flock to meamo in general, either Feb 15 13:58:02 RichiH: indeed Feb 15 13:58:03 * RichiH will prolly still buy a n900 (after waiting out what else MWC brings) Feb 15 13:58:19 RichiH: I think they want to get rid of the bad rep Maemo has Feb 15 13:58:32 i think they want the weigth intel has Feb 15 13:58:33 and get rid of the communist cabal, of course ;p Feb 15 13:58:42 meego will run on arm _and_ intel, mind Feb 15 13:58:43 RichiH: the one thing that keeps coming back when you listen to Nokia marketing people, was that Maemo was geeky Feb 15 13:58:59 crashanddie: yah, that is why i like it :p Feb 15 13:59:06 RichiH: well, it would be a significant edge over other platforms Feb 15 13:59:24 RichiH: android can only run on ARM, and iPhoneOS too Feb 15 13:59:32 crashanddie: yes, if intel & nokia do this the right way, it might become awesome Feb 15 13:59:32 they need a widely adopted platform to compete with apple on the mobile side Feb 15 13:59:44 android ran on intel too Feb 15 13:59:52 a widely adopted platform is exactly what Apple doesn't use. Feb 15 13:59:54 ubuntu had done work on it Feb 15 13:59:59 they use a specific platform for a specific device. Feb 15 14:00:03 crashanddie: as android is basically a glorified VM, i doubt they are limited to arm Feb 15 14:00:06 but apple has the dev's commited to them Feb 15 14:00:28 also, who says that apple does not have an x86 iphone os in a drawer? Feb 15 14:00:40 windows NT ran on various platforms, as well Feb 15 14:00:41 RichiH: they do Feb 15 14:00:44 apple doesn't do mass anything Feb 15 14:00:52 they want you to be forced to use their hw Feb 15 14:00:58 RichiH: the iPhone OS is based on a Mac OS X kernel, which as we know is cross architecture Feb 15 14:01:14 oscillik: no, it's not Feb 15 14:01:15 apple x only will run on apple hardware, and there are lawsuits to back that Feb 15 14:01:18 god the things you have to hear Feb 15 14:01:27 oscillik: i know. but as they dropped stuff like memory protection etc, there _might_ be some other changes as well Feb 15 14:01:58 crashanddie: isn't it? Feb 15 14:02:13 crashanddie: from what i read, i think the iphone os is at least based on os x aka freebsd Feb 15 14:02:31 not really. It's like saying that a linux-i686 is cross-platform because the main linux tree supports multiple archs Feb 15 14:03:17 and will all the drivers that are in a kernel, reimplementing it on a new architecture isn't just recompiling Feb 15 14:03:25 ahh yes, it seems like it is just a variant of the XNU kernel Feb 15 14:08:58 Well I'll be damned Feb 15 14:09:09 anyone got links to Ari's blog or something? Feb 15 14:09:24 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/meego-time.html Feb 15 14:12:00 btw, about 2 years ago, I applied for jobs with a company called OpenedHand, I wanted to be a dev for them because they did quite a few things with Maemo. Long story short, I never got to the interview stage, because they were bought by Intel... Feb 15 14:12:33 satmd: mm and where can I repport it for the maemo .deb? Feb 15 14:12:33 00:11 < slaine_> yes, they worked very closely with the platform and took that expertise to the moblin project. Feb 15 14:12:43 "So what’s with Maemo6? Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance." Feb 15 14:12:45 people using syncevolution with funambol make sure tho configuration shows the correct Calendar type (Maemo Calendar) oc your sync will fail Feb 15 14:13:01 I'm not sure, that's why I didn't report it yet Feb 15 14:13:27 hopefully nokia will add their media player source code to the project, its a bit lacking, and would love to be able to fix that Feb 15 14:16:10 just read the news that there scrapping maemo :( Feb 15 14:16:19 * trbs is so sad Feb 15 14:17:00 btw Feb 15 14:17:02 in french Feb 15 14:17:18 "megot" (pronounced the same as meego) means: "cigarette but" Feb 15 14:17:23 trbs: it's not getting scrapped Feb 15 14:17:39 crashanddie: Oh thr irony >:D Feb 15 14:17:42 the* Feb 15 14:18:07 run to the hills Feb 15 14:19:21 trbs: It's the opposite of scrapping; it's become the new LIMO! Feb 15 14:20:10 speaking of maemo6 Feb 15 14:20:26 * tigert installs widgets gallery from extras-devel Feb 15 14:20:27 it's more like we our competition is being scraped :) Feb 15 14:20:46 btw, what is the state of free navigation on maemo 5? Feb 15 14:21:01 Horrid. Feb 15 14:21:03 I do think its odd there's nothing on maemo.org about it. and clearly meego isn't a community site, so where is maemo.org going to live. Feb 15 14:21:15 tigert: it's published now? Feb 15 14:21:15 RichiH: don't you dare asking such questions... Feb 15 14:21:20 tic what's the state of paid navigation on maemo 5? :D Feb 15 14:21:27 Stskeeps: looks like it is Feb 15 14:21:33 that bad, eg? Feb 15 14:21:35 eh* Feb 15 14:21:36 tigert: free or non-free? Feb 15 14:21:47 didnt check what this package is Feb 15 14:21:53 ah, non-free Feb 15 14:21:58 patience Feb 15 14:21:59 :) Feb 15 14:22:06 RichiH: it works, but only with internet connection if you need to search for a location Feb 15 14:22:17 tigert: i have, was just unsure what they got to :( Feb 15 14:22:19 er, :) Feb 15 14:22:23 yeah Feb 15 14:22:25 Tanuva: Hum well... I'd see it the other way around: _Here_ RichiH is allowed to ask this question ;) Feb 15 14:22:41 florian: okay, that's an argument Feb 15 14:22:49 tigert: non-free? License issues? Feb 15 14:23:17 MeeGo home now... Feb 15 14:23:39 I dont think so Feb 15 14:24:39 http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework Feb 15 14:25:13 did anyone else see the news about maemo and moblin merging? Feb 15 14:25:27 dracflamloc_: join the fun! #meego Feb 15 14:25:28 Jaffa, Stskeeps, humm... that is the way i read the news... :( specially when going from deb->rpm that seems such a massive change to me that there will be little of maemo left afterward ? Feb 15 14:25:28 dracflamloc_: What?! Feb 15 14:25:29 Really?! Feb 15 14:25:41 i'm scared Feb 15 14:25:45 for my poor n900 Feb 15 14:25:48 Jaffa: what rock have you been hiding under? Feb 15 14:25:48 Tanuva: eww Feb 15 14:26:03 dracflamloc_: I am pretty sure your N900 will continue to work just like it did until today Feb 15 14:26:11 trbs: deb->RPM isn't the biggest change. The change to developers will be relatively minor, especially as Qt (Creator) & MADDE will increasingly abstract things anyway. No, the biggest shakeup is in the community Feb 15 14:26:15 Stskeeps: sarcasm. You know you want it. Feb 15 14:26:15 Stskeeps: ;-) Feb 15 14:26:19 most likely it wont self-destruct because of the news Feb 15 14:26:22 i'm pretty sure i buy a 500 phone so its not obsolete two weeks after I buy it Feb 15 14:26:51 crashanddie: :P Feb 15 14:27:04 dracflamloc_: hey, that's exactly what happens when you buy a computer, and guess what, the N900 is brought to market as exactly that, a mobile computer ;) Feb 15 14:27:17 No python-opengl?! Feb 15 14:27:17 my N810 is not obsolete, a friend is borrowing it and enjoys it immensely Feb 15 14:27:22 wtfomgbbq?! Feb 15 14:27:30 crashanddie, yes but with a computer i can upgrade peices to keep it relevant Feb 15 14:27:38 andi can upgrade the OS no problem Feb 15 14:27:41 not with a laptop Feb 15 14:27:53 since the n900s hardware isnt the issue here Feb 15 14:27:55 dracflamloc_: does relevant mean bleeding edge? Feb 15 14:27:57 its only relevant to talk about the OS Feb 15 14:28:18 RichiH: I use the mapper that has the openstreetmaps but it still downloads them Feb 15 14:28:38 RichiH: there is no mapper with voice neither Feb 15 14:28:40 haha, rpm? Feb 15 14:28:42 * jaska hurls Feb 15 14:29:34 if noone noticed, DUI seems to be in extras-devel Feb 15 14:29:39 RichiH: and it calculates strange routes from time to time and won't adjust it if you drive somewhere else Feb 15 14:29:53 RichiH: which is quite annoying! Feb 15 14:30:12 how do i set n900 hostname? Feb 15 14:30:25 to stay the same after reboots Feb 15 14:31:08 x86 phones, muhaha Feb 15 14:31:14 thresh: modifying /etc/hostname should survive a reboot... Feb 15 14:31:17 what a bad joke Feb 15 14:32:43 Tanuva: okay. Feb 15 14:35:56 Jaffa, i agree that the community change is (potentially) huge, but changing van deb -> rpm doesn't seem to be a small matter. Is nokia really going to repackage maemo ? or are they moving to the moblin codebase and making it more maemoisch ? (if anybody knows :) Feb 15 14:35:56 I suppose I'm gonna install Mer before I install meego Feb 15 14:36:01 * alterego wonders if carbide++ will be on the cards in the not-so-distant future for maemo Feb 15 14:36:49 * alterego contemplates setting up a "meeno" website. Feb 15 14:36:55 * alterego chuckles Feb 15 14:37:01 trbs: I guess the latter. Feb 15 14:37:06 trbs: the first wouldn't make sense. Feb 15 14:37:10 Has anyone thought about MER?! :) Feb 15 14:37:13 is there any problem with extras-devel now? i keep getting: W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Hash Sum mismatch Feb 15 14:37:25 doing apt-get update on the device itself Feb 15 14:37:37 I'm disappointed. Who the fuck at Nokia agreed that RPM is OK for MeeGo? Feb 15 14:37:37 javispedro, that's what i would think as-well (which is why i called it scrapping maemo) Feb 15 14:38:02 trbs: I think they scrapped the GUI parts of Moblin, or at least plan to do so. (Moblin used Gtk) Feb 15 14:38:49 well at least now we know where the single sign-on effort went... and why it never came to be on Maemo Feb 15 14:38:55 any pointers about RPM really? Feb 15 14:38:58 javispedro, ow i thought it was QT already... but no matter :) thought moving to Qt for embedded/phone devices is a pretty good move (though i love gtk, i can really see why qt would be better) Feb 15 14:39:07 so .. wtf is going on? i mean .. i just got my n900... i dont even know what i should be learning to develop for it Feb 15 14:39:13 moving to qt ... and now meego? Feb 15 14:39:24 its tough to create a strong base with such a fast moving target Feb 15 14:39:28 etamme: write console programs Feb 15 14:39:30 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118397/ Feb 15 14:39:35 Let's be realistic. The issue is not the file format. The issue is the expressiveness of the dependencies. Feb 15 14:39:38 GeneralAntilles: ping Feb 15 14:39:39 juliank: for me as fedore devel it's better, I was lost with debs :D Feb 15 14:39:40 GAN900: ping Feb 15 14:39:43 etamme: just target Qt, meego is beside the point. Feb 15 14:39:58 "target QT" is pretty generic Feb 15 14:40:10 what is the future of the n900? is meego like .. in the next year ? Feb 15 14:40:15 what about maemo 6 ? Feb 15 14:40:28 etamme, based on Qt, what do you mean what about it? Feb 15 14:40:46 etamme: start with Qt 4.6... but this is the exact thing that killed openmoko - from gtk to qt, from qt to efl... and no stable development platform... Feb 15 14:40:46 jreznik: Just because you are not able to do good packaging. Feb 15 14:40:55 nokia already stopped caring for n900 :p Feb 15 14:40:58 I think right now, you should forget about meego, concentrate on your N900 and maemo Feb 15 14:41:05 i hope mer stays debian based, then at least i can use my n900 for the next couple of years Feb 15 14:41:40 trbs: i plan mer related to fremantle so far. Feb 15 14:42:02 yeah .. im a little disheartened with all this crap Feb 15 14:42:05 jreznik: and efl develops so fast that one has to redo code every "release" Feb 15 14:42:06 I have to wonder why Intel. Feb 15 14:42:16 i had my n810 ... which is now obsolete b/c it can not run maemo 5 Feb 15 14:42:26 and now .. i have had my n900 for 2 weeks Feb 15 14:42:26 Weird relationship, much like Apple vs Google. Feb 15 14:42:30 javispedro: who else? ARM? bahahaha Feb 15 14:42:35 and im watching this crap happen Feb 15 14:42:41 etamme: N900 has more opportunity than n810. Feb 15 14:42:52 i understand changing windowing toolkits .. thats fine Feb 15 14:42:59 juliank: yep, I failed to do a simple deb file even, so yes, I can't make any good package :D but I had same problem with first RPM package... it's just what you are used to use Feb 15 14:43:01 juliank, dpkg is the suck when compared to rpm Feb 15 14:43:04 but this whole meego business .. and changing from deb to rpm etc. etc. Feb 15 14:43:07 thats insane Feb 15 14:43:15 etamme: concentrate on what you have, I had a neo freerunner and nokia 3510i before and I'm quite happy with what it actually is :) Feb 15 14:43:16 it's clearly within Intel's interests to kill ARM. Embrace (Maemo), Extend (MeeGo), Extinguish Feb 15 14:43:18 jreznik: That does not mean that I don't like Fedora or Red Hat, it just means that .deb is superior in my opinion. I had Fedora for a few months until RPM decided to destroy the database. Feb 15 14:43:39 etamme: considerthis, we're using pretty much the bleeding edge of technology in our hands right now with the N900, do you really expect it to change so drastically within the next year to make this device obsolete? Feb 15 14:43:46 Stskeeps, cool :) Feb 15 14:43:58 juliank: I like RPM but I don't think one is better than other - there are cons/pros for both... Feb 15 14:43:59 alterego, well if meamo gets dropped Feb 15 14:44:02 Not just the N900, hardware, but the rsoftware. Feb 15 14:44:20 etamme: it's not going to get dropped, who said anything about it being dropped? Feb 15 14:44:23 im not concerned so much about the hardware .. i just want to see a stable platform. Feb 15 14:44:30 juliank: if something destroyed your db - yes, it was bug but not file format bug but application bug... Feb 15 14:45:04 alterego, it seems a lot of the meego stuff would basically be mutually exclusive with the existing maemo platform Feb 15 14:45:12 jreznik: Maybe also a system crash, although I can't remember Fedora ever crashing; except during the early days of KMS Feb 15 14:46:26 etamme: not really, what are you talking about specifically? Feb 15 14:46:31 jreznik: Still I like the mighty apt-get more than everything else. It's just a nice feeling to use a software one helps to develop. Feb 15 14:47:07 juliank: rpm was indeed in bad state few releases ago, but panu, festi and jindra novy are working really hard to get in shape again Feb 15 14:47:27 alterego, ... if maemo and mobilin are now meego ... is maemo 6 axed ? is the N series going to run meego in the future? Feb 15 14:47:38 i just saw a press release .. so i have little information Feb 15 14:48:10 I guess the meego release is going to become what maemo 6 was planned to be Feb 15 14:48:14 etamme, maemo 6 hasn't been axed, meego is a merging of the bext of both worlds, it's an evolution not a culling. Feb 15 14:48:27 etamme: maemo 6 is instance of meego... that's they say Feb 15 14:48:39 jreznik: One of the things I like is that yum & rpm just look better (less verbose) than apt-get&deb. Feb 15 14:49:07 well, one can hope mer or something picks up the n900s after nokia abandons them Feb 15 14:49:08 :) Feb 15 14:49:13 alterego, the meego site isnt very clear on what the changes are.... such as the changing of deb to rpm ... that seems pretty significant to me. Feb 15 14:49:24 Stskeeps, you guys have (or plan to have) Mer running on hardware like beagleboard's ? Feb 15 14:49:26 and it will obviously break a lot of existing development Feb 15 14:49:35 etamme: well, from meego's specific, there is now change, it's a new system. Feb 15 14:49:35 etamme: all things considered, packaging isn't a big deal Feb 15 14:49:53 s/specific/perspective .. Feb 15 14:50:10 etamme: gtk -> qt is bigger change, deb -> rpm is big change but it's just repackaging (lot of work but not as hard as porting code) Feb 15 14:50:26 any how .. my only concern... is that i dont want maemo development to get fractured by having a constantly moving target Feb 15 14:50:47 the gtk -> qt change was happening for Maemo 6 with or without this Feb 15 14:50:56 etamme: so um Feb 15 14:51:01 maemo has always been a moving target Feb 15 14:51:07 jreznik, do you know which of the two code bases will be the 'base' of the merge ? Feb 15 14:51:10 i highly doubt you can find a maemo1 app that runs on maemo5 Feb 15 14:51:11 timeless_mbp, i know .. Feb 15 14:51:12 etamme: well, use Qt, I don't see what you mean by constant moving target, all of this has been known for months. Feb 15 14:51:22 the meego thing just seemed kind of out of left field Feb 15 14:51:30 and i didnt really get a lot of info about what it invovled Feb 15 14:51:52 etamme: wait, and in the meantime, just develop using the maemo Qt oriented libraries. Feb 15 14:52:02 trbs: from what I have read it looks like Gtk is staying and not going to be just community supported only Feb 15 14:52:25 but I'm not Nokia nor Intel devel, even not Maemo one yet :( Feb 15 14:52:27 alterego, yeah .. im sure things are not going to go crazy .. i just want to get some more info ... and i dont know why i didnt hear this from nokia at all? Feb 15 14:52:42 trbs: i think i'm going to reduce a bit on Mer portability atm. Feb 15 14:53:46 jreznik, hehe :) me neither.... i've been working on maemo on beagleboard to build my own home-automation and security systems (besides having a n900 and coding some convenience apps for it) Feb 15 14:54:32 stanojr, ok Feb 15 14:54:37 oeps... Feb 15 14:54:47 trbs: look at maemo-on-omap Feb 15 14:55:40 * corecode eyes meego Feb 15 14:55:45 trbs: I'd like to port one of my apps to maemo, but I was waiting to stabilize Qt on maemo - looks like it just happened with Qt 4.6.2 Feb 15 14:56:35 Anybody knows if it's possible to re-partition the internal flash on N810? I need one more partition Feb 15 14:56:45 I'm honestly thinking about just dropping the whole thing Feb 15 14:56:54 but first I'd like to start with easier one app - but I don't want what to code for N900 - it has everything I want... I was checking top iPhone/Android apps and usually lot of these apps are already in base system or totally useless apps... :D Feb 15 14:56:56 Stskeeps, ok can imaging why you do that for mer, I was looking at http://maemo-beagle.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 15 14:57:02 just, stop being a mod, stop being an op, stop coming to IRC Feb 15 14:57:16 and just not care anymore Feb 15 14:57:21 luckilly most of development for screen, interface and daemons can be done quite easily in the scratchbox env :) Feb 15 14:57:23 jreznik: totally useless apps are mostly the most fun :D Feb 15 14:57:50 s/mostly/usually) Feb 15 14:58:28 jreznik, what are your apps Feb 15 14:58:31 trbs: http://www.omappedia.org Feb 15 14:58:40 I can't put in to words how angry I am at this announcement Feb 15 14:58:58 why? Feb 15 14:59:04 Lantizia: pitchforks! torches! Feb 15 14:59:18 because it's a huge step back Feb 15 14:59:21 Stskeeps, yeah was looking at the getting_started page for fremantle :) Feb 15 14:59:47 lcuk: makneto - xmpp whiteboarding tool... it could be nice to have it with touchscreen device... but the current code is mess - it needs rewrite from scratch, nice opportunity to do it but lot of work Feb 15 15:00:03 Only had the N900 2 months and already it's a product with an uncertain future Feb 15 15:00:05 lcuk: howz liqbabe :) Feb 15 15:01:25 Stskeeps, last question :) how tightly is the gui of maemo/mer integrated into the system... aka would it be possible to go the other way and take debian/arm and put the mer gui on top of that ? Feb 15 15:02:19 trbs: guess what i'm doing.. Feb 15 15:02:48 Does anyone some other nice debian/gtk based phone? Feb 15 15:02:53 jreznik, :) you seen the sort of stuff i do ;) http://liqbase.net/liq.liqbase.multi.sketch.S6003750.JPG Feb 15 15:03:01 hehe sorry... with your reply sounds like i was stating the obvious lol :) Feb 15 15:03:06 ifreq, im as well as can be expected with a funeral tomorrow Feb 15 15:03:12 Lantizia: pls come back later Feb 15 15:03:20 ifreq: why? Feb 15 15:03:25 trbs: maemo - quite heavily. Feb 15 15:03:32 lcuk: ah thats bad :P Feb 15 15:03:41 lcuk: you have 3 n900's? Feb 15 15:04:01 trbs: But you can take maemo and strip it back to a X server and little else if you want. Feb 15 15:04:07 aquatix, errr Feb 15 15:04:08 trbs: then in principle run whatever on it. Feb 15 15:04:10 ummm ;) Feb 15 15:04:14 lcuk: ah ;) Feb 15 15:04:19 hello. is there a maemo package for gnu screen? particularily for maemo 5/n900? Feb 15 15:04:24 2.99 Feb 15 15:04:31 lcuk: eh? Feb 15 15:04:34 mcizek: apt-get install screen Feb 15 15:04:47 mziker check maemo.org/packages Feb 15 15:04:49 SpeedEvil: tried that. any special repository I need to add? have extras. Feb 15 15:04:59 extras-devel? Feb 15 15:05:00 tools? Feb 15 15:05:11 lcuk: wow, that's nice! Feb 15 15:05:11 unsure where I got it from Feb 15 15:06:07 SpeedEvil: extras-testing? Feb 15 15:06:15 jreznik, thats only a tiny part Feb 15 15:06:21 heh, #meego is a torrent Feb 15 15:06:24 SpeedEvil, true... but the hope for me was to be able to focus on the home-automation part and not having to worry about gui + embedded system... that's why i thought something like maemo would be 'perfect'. fancy interface + os without the hazzle :) Feb 15 15:06:49 jreznik, it sits ontop of http://www.youtube.com/user/lcukmaemo#p/a/u/2/7hGUKICDeok Feb 15 15:06:51 aquatix: oh, it's always fun to be in the middle of a culture clash Feb 15 15:06:59 javispedro: yep :) Feb 15 15:07:11 maemo! moblin! rpm! deb! Feb 15 15:07:12 love it Feb 15 15:07:19 qt! gtk! Feb 15 15:07:24 now i must admit, that for my hobby projects i just do not want to touch anything else then debian or *bsd Feb 15 15:07:25 add openmoko to the mix. Feb 15 15:07:37 why not use gnustep ? :) Feb 15 15:07:47 * vmlemon_ thinks that Fiasco, or MobGo would be a more apt name, right now ;) Feb 15 15:07:50 my vote is on the MGUPTAF = MeeGo Unified Package Tar Archive Format Feb 15 15:07:52 javispedro: yep :) Feb 15 15:07:59 we are planning local openmobility conference, good topic to discuss there :D Feb 15 15:08:00 trbs: what do you want to run these project on? Feb 15 15:08:04 can't they base meego on slack? Feb 15 15:08:21 slack++ Feb 15 15:08:27 aquatix: no, most of maemo backend gets kicked out, and we go with moblin Feb 15 15:08:33 moblin is a fork off fedora Feb 15 15:08:39 slackware... wow my first linux ... that's a flashback :) Feb 15 15:08:40 ifI understand it correctly Feb 15 15:08:53 moblin was based on fedora, yes Feb 15 15:09:03 forked Feb 15 15:09:05 but in essence, it's just a nice gtk layer Feb 15 15:09:17 it ran on ubuntu too, later Feb 15 15:09:21 they're not pulling from mainstream anymore Feb 15 15:09:23 aquatix: it's more like merge of fedora, opensuse and ubuntu Feb 15 15:09:32 aquatix: no, other way around, ubuntu first, fedore fork later Feb 15 15:09:46 so now it's going to be a merge of fedora, opensuse, ubuntu, debian and symbian. Feb 15 15:09:47 but now it's completely on theirs own legs Feb 15 15:09:53 crashanddie: oh? hm, then i missed some Feb 15 15:09:54 jreznik: why opensuse? there's no zypper here Feb 15 15:10:05 doesn't zypper cme from opensuse? Feb 15 15:10:12 I kinda remember using that for my first time in opensuse Feb 15 15:10:13 crashanddie: they use lot of opensuse build tools Feb 15 15:10:18 crashanddie: or was it lightweight ubuntu with xfce4 first (v0.2something) Feb 15 15:11:13 ah, so this is the nokia master plan Feb 15 15:11:18 I can probably find fedora-devel archive emails - we were asking why they are forking fedora and do now work with fedora and they replied - it's not fedora anymore, we use some parts from fedora, suse etc.. Feb 15 15:11:22 harmattan -- switch to Qt Feb 15 15:11:30 javispedro: Ho! Ho! Ho! Feb 15 15:11:34 inverna -- switch to E18^WRPM Feb 15 15:11:39 javispedro: BTW, found a bug in OpenTTD Feb 15 15:11:59 RST38h: morning. and shoot :) Feb 15 15:12:02 javispedro: When you start dragging your finger, it does not react for a while, then jumps to wherever your finger is Feb 15 15:12:05 RST38h, only one? Feb 15 15:12:11 javispedro: it is kinda disorienting Feb 15 15:12:26 slono: Oh, we have been on this for a while now, it is pretty decent ;) Feb 15 15:12:57 RST38h: I remade the entire thing in the latest fremantle version, do you have that one? Feb 15 15:13:14 javispedro: I have whatever is in the repos (devel included) Feb 15 15:13:44 RST38h: ah, I think I see what you mean. Feb 15 15:13:58 RST38h: is the area where it does not scroll "smallish"? Feb 15 15:14:12 RST38h: that's the click vs drag detection at work Feb 15 15:14:43 javispedro: not very small more like quarter of a screen =) Feb 15 15:16:06 RST38h: happens randomly, or always? Feb 15 15:17:22 are there any non-cli sftp clients? Feb 15 15:17:51 i might report a bug, every keypress is sent twice by the vncviewer Feb 15 15:18:01 oh Feb 15 15:18:13 anyone else successfully running gnu screen and can tell me where they found it? Feb 15 15:18:17 does it also happen to you? Feb 15 15:18:39 javis: always Feb 15 15:18:57 oh, that's interesting. Feb 15 15:19:00 Hi Everyone Feb 15 15:19:08 doesn't seem to happen here with the default configuration. Feb 15 15:19:28 javis: mine is also default. weird Feb 15 15:19:46 N900 question does nokia intend to release the pc suite for linux? Feb 15 15:20:06 RST38h: in fact, https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=4767&group_id=874&atid=3286 Feb 15 15:21:40 dexteruk: I'm not holding my breath Feb 15 15:22:25 you could always try wine. Feb 15 15:22:38 I dont understand how they can release a phone with Linux as an OS and not provide the nokia suite for linux also... Dont they know that 99% of the first people to buy the phone will be Linux users Feb 15 15:22:45 yes im doing that now Feb 15 15:23:01 just wanted to bitch see if anyone from nokia was listening :-D Feb 15 15:23:38 * aquatix never uses desktop sync Feb 15 15:23:48 just sync with the sky :) Feb 15 15:23:53 But I have to say its a wonderful phone Feb 15 15:25:09 :-) I know there is always many ways with Open Source to do a job.. But just for once i wanted to see the big boys doing the work and not us :-D Feb 15 15:25:58 true Feb 15 15:26:09 tbh this entire merger is something I've always though it's a good idea -- moving to a fully OSS base platform (aka what I call "maemo based on mer"), but I fear this entire change of the command chain. Feb 15 15:26:25 hey, just a quick question, is there a way to route the audio output and input to a computer? Feb 15 15:26:58 javispedro: It really won't be opensource all the way. There will always be a closed layer. Feb 15 15:27:14 javispedro: But at least the common part with be open. Feb 15 15:27:16 X-Fade: yes, but this is why I prefer the base part to be OSS. Feb 15 15:27:22 X-Fade: instead of a "mix". Feb 15 15:27:34 of upper and lower level components being closed. Feb 15 15:27:49 javispedro: yeah, but that is what Harmattan was supposed to be anyway. Feb 15 15:28:24 A more clear line, but yeah I guess that is why Harmattan will be a MeeGo instance ;) Feb 15 15:28:52 if that's the case, then I'm happy. Feb 15 15:29:01 but I think more integration than that... may be dangerous. Feb 15 15:30:07 X-Fade: hm, harmattan a meego instance? but it seems meego prefers gtk/clutter, while harmattan wants qt Feb 15 15:30:09 which note taking/simple text editor application should I use on the N900? Feb 15 15:30:22 I don't even see the reason to integrate the websites. Now every "MeeGo" garage project will have to be a x86/arm package. Feb 15 15:30:22 vim doesn't look like an option because of the keyboard ;) Feb 15 15:30:31 aquatix: Meego's primary UI toolkit is Qt. Feb 15 15:30:31 aquatix: the diagram of system sw shows Qt being the main toolkit iirc Feb 15 15:30:37 aquatix: huh, you didn't read the architecture chart on meego.com :) Feb 15 15:30:39 oh Feb 15 15:30:44 X-Fade: erm, nope O:) Feb 15 15:30:48 well that's telling you ;) Feb 15 15:30:48 * aquatix hides in shame Feb 15 15:31:08 i still try to keep an appearance of 'work' here at... work :) Feb 15 15:31:23 yeah same, but I did sneak a quick read earlier on Feb 15 15:31:46 so when using the terminal on the n900, anyone worked out how to copy and paste? Feb 15 15:32:02 at least half of us did. Feb 15 15:32:07 uh, drag to mark, appbar and "copy"? Feb 15 15:32:46 ah you see didnt look there :-D Feb 15 15:32:59 цщц Feb 15 15:33:00 see learning something new all the time :-D (thanks) Feb 15 15:33:01 wow Feb 15 15:33:11 MS just rocked with new UI I guess :) Feb 15 15:33:14 * RST38h moos at wazd Feb 15 15:33:27 RST38h: moo :) Feb 15 15:33:27 wazd: Ready to buy a zunephone? =) Feb 15 15:33:53 MS and rocked are two words i could never of imagined seeing together Feb 15 15:34:01 RST38h: well, I like all that typography and simplicity stuff :) Feb 15 15:34:21 wazd: yep Feb 15 15:34:34 * aquatix too Feb 15 15:34:36 simplicity, yay Feb 15 15:35:02 what they've done now is kill the responsiveness with excess candy Feb 15 15:35:16 (generally with all smartphones) Feb 15 15:35:22 dexteruk, you can use ctrl-c and ctrl-v as well as tap the top 'x terminal' bar Feb 15 15:35:23 is this the Win7 on a phone stuff? Feb 15 15:35:59 tried that and all it did for me was give me a new line Feb 15 15:36:39 trbs: ctrl+c in a terminal does other things i guess :) Feb 15 15:37:26 Sorry guys but the only place that MS should exist is in the bin... Havent used it for over 15 years and everytime i have to is slow, not userfriendly and full of holes Feb 15 15:38:29 lcuk: looks like win7 mobile has borrowed your liqtile interface Feb 15 15:38:49 dexteruk: well some people have to use it at work Feb 15 15:39:42 lardman i did give it a second glance Feb 15 15:39:50 oh god, I need to leave meego or I'll burst. Feb 15 15:39:53 Poor company, they really dont want people to be productive do they Feb 15 15:40:11 well it's all interesting stuff Feb 15 15:40:14 burst into laughs, of course. Feb 15 15:40:27 * lcuk has other things on his mind today Feb 15 15:40:28 got to say the ui flashiness is well done on Win mobile Feb 15 15:40:47 javispedro: too much chatter there for the time being Feb 15 15:40:55 MS has recently got stuff right in fact. Feb 15 15:40:59 Like Windows 7. Feb 15 15:41:15 javispedro: :) Feb 15 15:41:21 javispedro: already did Feb 15 15:41:42 javispedro: colleagues starting to look funny at me Feb 15 15:41:47 Right you tell that to me when i get spam message from someone msn about some nake pics of you one line Feb 15 15:42:21 im sick to depth of telling you have some unwanted guests on there machine Feb 15 15:43:14 Heh: undefined symbol: _zNK24QAbstractKineticScroller10metaObjectEv - good job nokia ... Feb 15 15:43:21 PySide is screwed on the device :( Feb 15 15:43:27 win7 is ok-ish Feb 15 15:43:35 * aquatix sticks with linux anyway Feb 15 15:43:38 dexteruk: No one is forcing you to install any msn clients. Feb 15 15:43:41 win7 is omgish :) Feb 15 15:43:42 all the graphics in the world cannot remove the fact that there OS is has more holes than swisscheese Feb 15 15:43:45 alterego: you need to use older qt4.6 packages Feb 15 15:43:51 wazd: in what sense? Feb 15 15:43:56 lizardo: oh .. Great ... :/ Feb 15 15:44:11 aquatix: in a good sense :) Feb 15 15:44:13 timeless, ping Feb 15 15:44:13 dexteruk: i regard it as a toy OS Feb 15 15:44:14 alterego: you should know that Qt 4.6 on maemo is still... beta Feb 15 15:44:21 Heh Feb 15 15:44:31 wazd: yeah, i was pleasantly surprised about the GUI Feb 15 15:44:57 hi guys, my adsl is under maintenance. what's the quickest way to tether my n900 to my pc? either windows or linux Feb 15 15:45:07 lizardo: it isn't http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/02/15/qt-462-for-maemo-5-released/ Feb 15 15:45:10 doubleukay-m: USB cable Feb 15 15:45:27 doubleukay-m: PC Suite mode, ubuntnu detects it straight away. Windows use PC suite Feb 15 15:45:41 alterego, thanks, will do that Feb 15 15:45:56 alterego: I use this one liner to downgrade my qt4 packages to ones which work together with PySide : dpkg -l 'libqt4-maemo5*' | awk '$1 == "ii" {print $2"=4.6.2~git20100128-0maemo1"}' | xargs apt-get --yes --force-yes install Feb 15 15:46:11 jreznik: fresh news are always good :) Feb 15 15:46:12 i don't have pc suite (ew) on windows so i'll hook it up on linux Feb 15 15:46:20 lizardo: thanks Feb 15 15:46:24 jreznik: today is the news day Feb 15 15:47:30 jreznik: thanks for heads up BTW, I'll see what can be done to push new PySide packages recompiled with this final release Feb 15 15:47:51 hey, i'm running easy debian on my n900 and it's really cool. however, i'm running very short of free space on the image. Is there a way to resize the existing image? Feb 15 15:52:57 lizardo: that one-liner doesn't seem to do anything for me :P Feb 15 15:53:35 alterego: it says that you are using the versions ? Feb 15 15:54:43 alterego: anyway, if you can wait some hours (if there are no surprises...), I plan to recompile PySide with this final release still today :) Feb 15 15:55:14 so whats going with maemo? Feb 15 15:55:15 lizardo: ah, I can probably wait a few hours :) Feb 15 15:55:25 is it now dead? Feb 15 15:55:28 MeeGo? Feb 15 15:55:31 wtf Feb 15 15:55:35 Stillborn Feb 15 15:55:45 lizardo: I'm just playing with Qt on my desktop, and wanted to see if this same form.ui file would load and what it'd look like on the N900 :) Feb 15 15:57:28 lizardo: can I prod you about a bug report wrt pyside? Feb 15 15:57:34 the ultimate name would have been a 'maemoblin' Feb 15 15:57:37 what does MeeGo mean for the Maemo platform? Feb 15 15:57:41 would sound relly funny in Russian Feb 15 15:57:49 something like "Maemo, damn" Feb 15 15:57:56 lol Feb 15 15:58:15 IcanCU: read the meego.com FAQs Feb 15 15:58:19 IcanCU: + Planet Maemo Feb 15 15:58:24 I presumed they called it MeeGo because they were going to integrate Google's Go .. Feb 15 15:59:13 is Meego backwards compatible with Maemo? Feb 15 16:01:37 IcanCU: it's a different OS what compatibility do you want to see? Feb 15 16:01:48 ok Feb 15 16:02:06 well like maemo apps running on meego Feb 15 16:04:07 w00t: better go trough #pyside in this case :) but note that 60% of PySide devs are away today for the Carnival holidays... Feb 15 16:04:33 IcanCU: It's likely that stuff will run. However, they'll need to be repackaged to rpm. Feb 15 16:04:43 i see Feb 15 16:04:44 w00t: so you may get some delay in getting your answer Feb 15 16:04:51 lizardo: sure, i'll dig it up and ask it Feb 15 16:04:58 IcanCU: it's linux. you can run pretty much anything you want. gtk and stuff will just not be the official/prime toolkit. Feb 15 16:05:12 yeah thats a good thing Feb 15 16:05:58 I really wonder how UI for Mobile devices and things like netbooks/laptops will be united :) Feb 15 16:06:59 It won't of course Feb 15 16:07:03 multitouch vs no touch Feb 15 16:07:08 Different paradigm Feb 15 16:07:29 I just discovered about Meego's existence. What does it mean in terms of Maemo future? Feb 15 16:07:37 lol Feb 15 16:07:42 But anyway Meeb^Hgo seems like a potential failure. Feb 15 16:07:46 guardian: scroll up a bit Feb 15 16:07:50 just asked the same thing Feb 15 16:08:01 IcanCU: I just joined, not enough backlog :/ Feb 15 16:08:15 IcanCU: paste in query? Feb 15 16:08:19 koivula: Every change has the potential to fail and to succeed Feb 15 16:08:45 in short: maemo will be no more Feb 15 16:08:52 it will be meego Feb 15 16:08:54 How long has this change been afoot? Feb 15 16:09:07 think it was new to most ppl Feb 15 16:09:08 Hukka, can't really see much advantages other than boasting around that this is done with Intel and backed up mighty Linux Foundation. Feb 15 16:09:26 http://duiframework.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/announcing-the-open-source-release-of-the-maemo-6-ui-framework/ Feb 15 16:09:26 Is this related to how few apps have been ported to the new maemo OS version, or is that just due to the newness? Feb 15 16:09:47 asked on #meego without answers: I developed an hildon input method plugin that brings handwriting recognition, is there a new input method framework in meego? Feb 15 16:09:58 koivula: Combined resourcers and user base Feb 15 16:10:15 guardian: so you used gtk? Feb 15 16:10:36 guardian: Hildon is community supported on Harmattan, after that not at all Feb 15 16:10:44 Shapeshifter: I did but I'm more concerned about the input method framework than with the UI stuf Feb 15 16:10:44 f Feb 15 16:11:02 The Moblin UX framework will be supported as a second class citizen, that is that they mean with gtk support in meego Feb 15 16:11:37 Hukka, well that's true but that doesn't require merging distros. You could also just quit the other. Feb 15 16:11:50 I don't mind rewriting the UI in Qt, what's important is a good input method framework Feb 15 16:12:19 Hukka, but anyway don't know too much if there really is something really to gain with merge. Feb 15 16:12:44 koivula: That would be bad PR Feb 15 16:13:08 koivula: And the merge does give us for example the same Qt framework, that we were getting with the original plan Feb 15 16:13:20 (Or well, I don't know if this was the original plan, but not announced as such) Feb 15 16:13:26 Hukka, well maybe a pr-wizard could say we shut down this other distro in some fancy way to make it look good. Feb 15 16:13:37 koivula: Yeah, "merge" Feb 15 16:13:45 But anyway, it will have parts from both Feb 15 16:13:55 Moblin wasn't supposed to have Qt before this announcement Feb 15 16:14:30 So before we had Qt in Nokia phones... and in Nokia phones. Now also in netbooks and all those embedded thingies that they say on the announcements Feb 15 16:14:54 Which for us means that we can target a wider audience with smaller effort than before Feb 15 16:15:00 Yup. Makes Qt stronger. Feb 15 16:15:33 in short, what in meego comes from moblin that maemo lacks? Feb 15 16:15:33 And there's been talk about Nokia's plans with Atom Feb 15 16:15:51 btw, to all those harmattan on n900 naysayers, nokia's release DUI in Extras-devel Feb 15 16:15:51 There will be an even lower power chip, and Nokia has been collaborating with Intel in hw before Feb 15 16:16:05 So all we know, they might plan, or prepare for an Atom phone Feb 15 16:16:19 That would make sense Feb 15 16:16:29 And I'd be happy to get rid of arm Feb 15 16:16:30 Then it indeed makes sense to get the good hw support directly from Intel, without bothering to do all the low level R&D Feb 15 16:16:45 I've been talking with the Moblin guys for a few hours now Feb 15 16:16:53 I can say that there are benefits, but also risks Feb 15 16:17:05 andre__: pong Feb 15 16:17:08 hmm, why getting rid of arm would be that good? Feb 15 16:17:11 It seems like moblin is actually currently more closed than Maemo is, in a way Feb 15 16:17:50 juhovh: I'm not commenting on whether that's good or not, but only that if that's the way to go, then it makes sense to use Moblin, which is The Most Atom optimized OS there is Feb 15 16:20:53 in short, what in meego comes from moblin that maemo lacks? Feb 15 16:21:30 teehee: http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2010/02/15/dilberts-reaction-to-the-new-microsoft-phone/ Feb 15 16:21:39 * aquatix gone Feb 15 16:22:49 guardian: a corporate partner Feb 15 16:25:46 guardian: Wider device base Feb 15 16:25:52 anyone able to charge his prepaid sim card with n900? (with some ussd*) Feb 15 16:26:01 guardian: If you ask "What does my N900 get from Moblin" then nothing Feb 15 16:26:14 But this is no longer only about phones Feb 15 16:26:33 When there is actually an atom processor suitable for mobile PHONES? Feb 15 16:26:35 Which I think is a good thing. There's been somewhat tongue-in-a-cheek talk about maemo tablet before Feb 15 16:26:38 This is it Feb 15 16:26:54 koivula: Not sure, but Moblin people indicate that somewhat soon Feb 15 16:27:06 Haven't followed the Atom trends and rumours that well Feb 15 16:27:24 dockane_: Not possible Feb 15 16:27:28 dockane_: Use another phone Feb 15 16:30:04 Hukka: well, thats unsatisfying. ussd codes work so far for me with ussdwidget.. Feb 15 16:32:45 Oh, there's now something for ussd? Feb 15 16:32:55 I was still under the impression that they just don't work at all Feb 15 16:34:00 * florian wonders why planet maemo fails to pick up his blog now. Feb 15 16:34:23 where is all this info about meego etc? Feb 15 16:34:36 meego.com Feb 15 16:34:37 i havent seen ANYTHING on maemo.org Feb 15 16:34:46 etamme: There are several threads on talk Feb 15 16:34:46 meego.com basically has no info Feb 15 16:34:51 It's what we have Feb 15 16:35:03 Plus what Jaaksi wrote on his blog and the announcements Feb 15 16:35:31 so.. what now? forgetting all out big projects for maemo and waiting for meego? Feb 15 16:35:54 Why? Feb 15 16:35:56 Qt's here Feb 15 16:35:58 (even though lower layer code will essentially be the same, it seems that hildon will disappear) Feb 15 16:36:01 4.6 was released Feb 15 16:36:04 back to my question about input methods: what was nice is that a single instance of my hildon input method plugin (that needs to bring several mb of data into memory) was used by many gtk text widgets. does meego features the same concept? through Qt mobility maybe? Feb 15 16:36:09 *our Feb 15 16:36:31 I've been targetting Qt since I got N900. Gtk was going to be finished anyway. So nothings changed in that sense Feb 15 16:36:40 The top layer will be from Maemo. Feb 15 16:36:55 florian: Did you tag it with maemo? Feb 15 16:37:03 florian: I only see one post in that feed. Feb 15 16:37:07 If you are an app developer, just work as usual. If not, then you work for Nokia or Intel anyway and you know what will happen Feb 15 16:37:29 * slonopotamus uses gentoo on his n800 and looks at all this buzz with a smile :) Feb 15 16:37:38 X-Fade: I'd see this as correctly tagged and working: http://fl0rian.wordpress.com/category/maemo/&feed=rss2/feed/ Feb 15 16:37:48 florian: http://fl0rian.wordpress.com/tag/maemo/feed/ Feb 15 16:37:55 florian: That is th one in use. Feb 15 16:38:18 Hukka: well.. I was still relying in gtk... Feb 15 16:38:34 cpscotti: It wouldn't have been officially supported in Harmattan anyway Feb 15 16:38:37 so maemo is officially deprecated. this would mean the end of any meaningful 3rd party support for the N900 :( Feb 15 16:38:39 I never really liked (nor experienced much) with qt Feb 15 16:39:00 florian: Shall I change feeds? Feb 15 16:39:04 X-Fade: strange... looks like something changed at wordpress Feb 15 16:39:08 X-Fade: yes please Feb 15 16:39:24 cpscotti: You should, if you worry about users Feb 15 16:39:41 cpscotti: And if you were developing just for yourself, then nothing's changed Feb 15 16:39:45 florian: Ok, changed. Feb 15 16:39:54 X-Fade: Many thanks! Feb 15 16:39:55 cpscotti: Your Gtk from your N900 won't magically be killed Feb 15 16:40:04 nice Feb 15 16:40:32 for example... the hildon widgets are all in the gtk universe after all Feb 15 16:40:43 and I loved that they put a n900 on meego homepage Feb 15 16:41:27 cpscotti: that is because they is no other phone to put there.. not like they would put the N97 :p Feb 15 16:41:34 I wonder if future MeeGo products can be upgraded to new major versions like iPhone. Feb 15 16:42:29 this news is just sinking in. I mean was it not the same nokia that was talking about plans for maemo6? It seems this was a rushed decision Feb 15 16:43:13 bigbrovar: And nothing has been taken away from Harmattan Feb 15 16:43:46 so, place your bets :) will there be official meego for n900? :) Feb 15 16:43:51 On the contrary. Everyone who has targetted Harmattan will now suddenly find a much larger base of devices their app will work on, either with no or small effort Feb 15 16:44:03 slonopotamus: a very, very safe bet is "no". Feb 15 16:44:04 Hukka: we hope so, I have to say the future of maemo (meego) just got blurrier Feb 15 16:44:06 slonopotamus: No Feb 15 16:44:18 Even Harmattan isn't official meego, I think Feb 15 16:44:22 It's just compatible Feb 15 16:44:31 javispedro, Hukka hehe :) for some reason i think that way too Feb 15 16:44:31 well.... do we move directly to #meego or we continue to stay here :D ? Feb 15 16:44:36 bigbrovar: Oh, it was blurry all along Feb 15 16:44:40 Hukka, but is harmattan a free upgrade to n900? Feb 15 16:44:55 koivula: If it is, consider it a gift Feb 15 16:45:02 koivula: It was never _ever_ promised Feb 15 16:45:04 Hukka: very sad.. Nokia which were are u going? Feb 15 16:45:17 Andy80: suggestion: enter #meego and say "rpm sucks lusers!" Feb 15 16:45:19 that should be the new moto for nokia Feb 15 16:45:28 People just read rumours enough to start believing it's the official truth, and when it doesn't happen ffeel like something was stolen from them Feb 15 16:45:29 :p Feb 15 16:45:54 javispedro: I'm already in #meego and that was really the thing I was going to write :D Feb 15 16:46:02 Andy80: Well, this is not so much about meego as it is "what will maemo be in it's final days" Feb 15 16:46:06 People are making a too big fuss about the whole meego thing. To me it seems that it's only a good thin. Feb 15 16:46:23 And whether Harmattan will come to N900 is definately not affected by this Feb 15 16:46:25 So maybe you need to learn a new packaging system. Big deal. Feb 15 16:46:31 Hukka, yes I know I hasn't promised. And maybe I should have said free or for a similar price that iPhone OS ugprades. Feb 15 16:46:46 koivula: What I can say, is that even if you don't get Harmattan, you get a lot Feb 15 16:46:56 I'd be very surprised to see Harmattan DRM on N900 Feb 15 16:47:11 But if you only wanted the free apps, I'd be very surprised why you wouldn't get them Feb 15 16:47:17 MiXu-: whatever way you look at it, you're going to lose something (be it some part of maemo.org, some unmantained software, old device support, or tmo karma). So no wonder people shits over. Feb 15 16:47:22 Hukka: N900 has not any DRM chipset... that is the problem... Feb 15 16:47:26 After all we are using N900 as Qt4.6 dev platform for a while now Feb 15 16:47:36 harumph..... im really not thrilled with this whole meego development.... i see n900 adopters getting a$$ Fu#@ed just like the I did with my n810. I can honestly only hope nokia doesnt f@ck this up, if they do - i can honestly say i will never buy a nokia product again in my life. Feb 15 16:47:37 time will tell what the benefits are going to be... Feb 15 16:47:56 Also who knows, next Maemo device could have a compass, or some other hw Feb 15 16:48:12 there is no next maemo device right? Feb 15 16:48:13 Hukka: not a problem itself, but in the fact that 3rd party producers want warranties and Nokia won't allow harmattan to run on N900 since the device cannot give any warranty about anti-piracy Feb 15 16:48:17 So that would also preclude us from the official OS. But still, we would get the extra apps Feb 15 16:48:25 penguinbait: technically, harmattan device. Feb 15 16:48:47 Andy80: Sure, but personally I would feel a lot bigger loss if I wouldn't get the OSS apps Feb 15 16:48:53 in a sense it's already outdated even before it being out :D Feb 15 16:49:11 No it's not... Feb 15 16:49:11 harmattan is meego complatible... after all it's all about Qt! Probably it will be named "MeeGo" instead of "Maemo" Feb 15 16:49:28 Andy80: The N900 can be locked too. ;) Feb 15 16:49:35 Unless you want to say that every device is outdated before it's out Feb 15 16:49:38 Andy80: Harmattan will also run on omap3. Feb 15 16:49:46 We always have rumours of what will be the next Feb 15 16:49:46 Hukka: exactly (tmo point of view) Feb 15 16:49:47 Hukka: a DRM chipset doesn't deny the presence of OSS software Feb 15 16:49:55 Andy80: So technically they can just lock your N900 ;) Feb 15 16:50:00 Go buy an i7? It's outdated. We know Intel's going 28n Feb 15 16:50:01 +m Feb 15 16:50:08 X-Fade: how can they lock it? Feb 15 16:50:12 Hell. I have a hard time not to start ranting about meego... Feb 15 16:50:17 Andy80: Yes, which was my point Feb 15 16:50:18 Andy80: When you flash new firmware? Feb 15 16:50:30 Andy80: Won't get the official OS, will get all the OSS apps Feb 15 16:50:30 andres: rantings for meego go at #meego. specially rpm rants. Feb 15 16:50:32 X-Fade: Ok, something has changed: Before the chage I saw all the old stuff here: http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:49150f6460d13e3d595a34443892bce6/ now there are only two. Feb 15 16:50:36 For me, it's good enough Feb 15 16:50:52 javispedro: thats why I did not really start ;-) Feb 15 16:50:56 But people, think! Feb 15 16:50:57 X-Fade: Do you know offhand when the planet update runs? Feb 15 16:51:01 This means it's no longer just N900 Feb 15 16:51:06 florian: Once per hour. Feb 15 16:51:10 It's no longer just a hobby project of Ari Jaaksi Feb 15 16:51:23 This is a _good_ _thing_ Feb 15 16:51:29 no. it's now an american company hobby project. Feb 15 16:51:31 no having ano official OS means that people is buying N900 now is simply wating 599€ in something that won't get any update in few months Feb 15 16:51:42 wasting Feb 15 16:51:42 javispedro: I am actually more concerned about what to target when... Feb 15 16:51:51 Andy80: And if they buy some other smartphone? Feb 15 16:52:10 javispedro: Two companies. Feb 15 16:52:18 so will harmatten be scrapped or run on intel processor? Feb 15 16:52:20 X-Fade: Ok... I'll wait for a while and see if it gets picked up Feb 15 16:52:31 Hukka, so then we can expect things like Qt bindings for Erlang! Feb 15 16:52:35 florian: I already see it on the planet? Feb 15 16:52:38 And I'd say that a joint venture is something clearly more stable than just an R&D project Feb 15 16:52:48 To back out would require probably a breach of contract Feb 15 16:52:50 Hukka: who bought Google G1 can upgrade it with latest Android someway... same thing for iPhone Feb 15 16:52:54 penguinbait: as I was saying, theoretically harmattan will come out as is -- just "meego compatible", whatever that means. Feb 15 16:53:14 Hukka: if you buy a N900 now and they stop developing it... well... I would be very hungry Feb 15 16:53:17 Andy80: Except that with both you get limited new functionality Feb 15 16:53:18 angry... Feb 15 16:53:26 Andy80: Get this, Qt4.6 is coming to N900 Feb 15 16:53:27 meego is a stupid name, I like moblin better Feb 15 16:53:33 Andy80: Uiemo demos are running on N900 Feb 15 16:53:41 Hukka: DUI too, it seems like Feb 15 16:53:46 meego sound like a cheap phone from tmobile Feb 15 16:53:48 Andy80: MeeGo, will be Qt. And more exactly Maemo flavour. Feb 15 16:53:50 X-Fade: oh indeed... then its just a strange effect that the feed listing in garage doesn't have it yet Feb 15 16:53:53 Hukka: this doesn't mean N900 will get harmattan at all :) Feb 15 16:53:54 I hope that MeeGo is just the geek name. Feb 15 16:54:03 Andy80: You. Will. Get. The. Apps. Feb 15 16:54:08 does intel really market "Moblin"? Feb 15 16:54:08 DUI works fine on N900. Feb 15 16:54:12 anyone wanna buy an N900? :p Feb 15 16:54:20 * wazd got UI poisoning with Maemoitalia Tux Theme Feb 15 16:54:23 I'll give to 20$ Feb 15 16:54:29 Not really that strange as the Harmattan device will run OMAP3 too ;) Feb 15 16:54:30 5 cents. Feb 15 16:54:31 I'll give one bananna. Feb 15 16:54:37 Andy80: If you don't get it, sell your phone. There are lot's of takers who are still on the queue Feb 15 16:55:19 definitely thinking of selling mine Feb 15 16:55:31 Hukka: I'm not saying I don't like N900, I'm saying I find stupid if Nokia doesn't make harmattan available for N900 too Feb 15 16:56:02 X-Fade: how long should I wait for Marina to be promoted to Extras? :) Feb 15 16:56:04 Andy80: For god's sake, they can't get the DRM work on N900, most likely. And you knew that it doesn't have DRM chips. Feb 15 16:56:35 wazd: 10 days, like everybody else? :D Feb 15 16:56:36 Andy80: You'll be happy, if Nokia cancels Ovi Store and DRM from the next device, and you get the same app upgrades as you would get in any case? Feb 15 16:56:51 As long as there won't be any progress, hw-wise? Feb 15 16:57:12 I'd be happy with no-DRM devices <3 Feb 15 16:57:13 X-Fade: well, I've already waited for 10 days actually :D Feb 15 16:57:20 I'd be happy with no-DRM at all. Feb 15 16:57:24 X-Fade: Package is in testingSystem2010-02-05 01:45 UTC Feb 15 16:57:38 wazd: Did you receive an unlock mail? Feb 15 16:57:49 Hukka: for what is Ovi Store now, it could not exist :P it's only full of shit. Worst than apple store for iphone... Feb 15 16:57:58 X-Fade: hmm Feb 15 16:58:03 Andy80: Don't switch the subject Feb 15 16:58:05 X-Fade: let me check Feb 15 16:58:11 Andy80: You complained that you don't get Harmattan Feb 15 16:58:30 Andy80: I asked if you would be happy if Harmattan didn't include anything substantially new Feb 15 16:58:46 of course I wouldn't Feb 15 16:58:57 Andy80: What do you actually want? You keep talking about Harmattan without saying _what_ in it you actually want Feb 15 16:58:58 lizardo: ping - You gonna have uitools in as part of your rebuild? Feb 15 16:59:16 Andy80: It's clearly not the apps, since I've told you you'll get them, and you are not happy Feb 15 16:59:36 Hukka: the problem is this: when harmattan will be out, they will simply stop developing Maemo5, that's the point Feb 15 17:00:00 i think you are all insane or brainwashed by needing always the latest smartphone thing, it's really stupid. i'm very happy with my n900 and maemo as it is and i couldn't care less if it stayed that way it's very usable and i could use it as it is for years without buying into the next sheep crowd hype Feb 15 17:00:04 Andy80: And what do you want for M5 that you don't have? Feb 15 17:00:20 Andy80: What is the problem, what are you missing? Feb 15 17:00:43 Hukka: if I could imagine innovative ideas for a mobile OS I wouldn't be here chatting, I would work for Nokia :D Feb 15 17:01:22 Hukka, portrait mode? Feb 15 17:01:33 Hukka: IMAP IDLE Feb 15 17:01:40 koivula: UI Feb 15 17:01:44 working front facing camera Feb 15 17:02:03 oscillik: Hell, I don't believe the email client will be usable in Harmattan, not by Nokia :) Feb 15 17:02:24 Andy80: it's not that easy to work for nokia, beleive me :D Feb 15 17:02:43 wazd: useful info! Feb 15 17:02:51 Hukka: doesn't really matter, i think i'm gonna make an eBay listing in a few hours anyways for my N900 Feb 15 17:02:56 lot of things are missing in N900 as you can see... Feb 15 17:03:01 And the camera? Yeah, that needs to be fixed. But after it's been fixed (PR1.2, who knows?) there's not much to left for Harmattan Feb 15 17:03:25 front camera working, video calls, video support in skype, portrait mode ecc... Feb 15 17:03:30 the fact that MeeGo website uses a big n900 on it's front page is such a cheap bastard asshole move Feb 15 17:03:40 thing is... nokia really is all about uncertainty regarding its high end smartphones... and we are in the middle of it Feb 15 17:03:41 wth is it with portrait mode.... Feb 15 17:03:45 Andy80: Video support in Skype is a thing skype has to do, isn't it? Feb 15 17:03:50 I thought Nokia started to boost their Email-client development across the platforms when they started collecting passwords ;) Feb 15 17:03:51 why do people want it Feb 15 17:04:02 it's easier for one-handed use Feb 15 17:04:08 Andy80: Ok, now there's something concrete. You have a list of things that's not ok. If those get fixed before the next device, you'll be all sunshine? Feb 15 17:04:13 sheepbat: what are you doing with the other hand? Feb 15 17:04:15 and text is easier to read in portrait mode Feb 15 17:04:21 oh... and we're still waiting for accelerated (using 3d chip) Flash plugin Feb 15 17:04:26 sheepbat: text? why? it's less space per line Feb 15 17:04:34 right Feb 15 17:04:35 you have to be linejump more Feb 15 17:04:38 Andy80: That's hardly something Nokia can influence Feb 15 17:04:41 Andy80: ask adobe for it Feb 15 17:04:42 long lines are bad for readability Feb 15 17:04:43 And it's smaller. Feb 15 17:04:48 Adobe either gets it done or not Feb 15 17:04:50 sheepbat: they aren't "long" exactly Feb 15 17:04:59 I really can't read things when the browser is in portrait mode. Feb 15 17:05:14 sheepbat: on your normal computer, you don't complain that the lines are 30cm wide Feb 15 17:05:34 actually, I keep all my windows smaller Feb 15 17:05:40 Hukka: Skype hasn't developed the client for N900 by their own idea :D Nokia paied them to do it :P Feb 15 17:05:49 Hukka: and so Nokia decides Feb 15 17:05:49 and have a key shortcut specifically to make the windows themselves basically portrait Feb 15 17:06:06 this IRC window, for instance, is less than half my screen width Feb 15 17:06:09 Andy80: you really have details of that agreement? Feb 15 17:06:11 Andy80: You really think that not having flash 10.1 is because Nokia didn't pay for it yet? Feb 15 17:06:14 Yeah, right... Feb 15 17:06:16 speaking of the browser being in portrait mode. Is there any way in which to get a toolbar in a portrait browser? to close the window, or view history? Feb 15 17:06:27 I think I'll calmly step right over there, a bit farther away... Feb 15 17:07:07 Hukka: you don't think money fixes everything??? crazy! Feb 15 17:07:13 Hukka: it's just my hopinion... I'm not free to expose a my idea? Feb 15 17:07:24 javispedro: Nothing fixes flash :) Feb 15 17:07:31 zing! Feb 15 17:07:35 Nor maybe windows Feb 15 17:07:42 (Duck & cover :) Feb 15 17:07:55 ca-ching! Feb 15 17:08:00 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 15 17:08:08 i sent a patch to xerces co apache.org Feb 15 17:08:14 they took it in <5 days (including a weekend) Feb 15 17:08:21 i sent a patch to nokia care of symbian.org Feb 15 17:08:24 Andy80: Flash 10.1 is a _bit_ larger than N900 Feb 15 17:08:30 they said it'll take them months before they can consider it Feb 15 17:08:52 Hukka: what do you mean with "larger" ? Feb 15 17:08:53 flash needs to die out Feb 15 17:08:56 stop caring about it Feb 15 17:09:03 timeless_mbp: did they say why? Feb 15 17:09:04 flash is one of the sellpoints of the n9000 Feb 15 17:09:09 why we don't have fremantle booting from sd yet? smth like, copy rootfs to 2gb card and pivot_root there early in boot process. Feb 15 17:09:09 w00t: yes Feb 15 17:09:19 they have a huge fork between Symbian^3 and Symbian^4 Feb 15 17:09:21 Andy80: It's not on N900 because they are lazy. It's not anywhere at all, so far. Feb 15 17:09:26 and can't juggle stuff because of it Feb 15 17:09:29 timeless_mbp: oh joy of joys Feb 15 17:09:41 externally they're using mercurial Feb 15 17:09:45 And the whole point of 10.1 is the hw acceleration, which is a huge selling point in every arch. Feb 15 17:09:50 i'm fairly certain i don't want to know what they're using internally Feb 15 17:09:56 timeless_mbp: CVS! Feb 15 17:09:57 javispedro: the usual "give customers what they want even if they dont need it and even if its utter crap" metality. Feb 15 17:10:00 RCS! :P Feb 15 17:10:05 rather make html5 working in microb. Feb 15 17:10:08 Weren't Nokia using Perforce still? Feb 15 17:10:11 N900 is a blip in Adobe's radar. A nice demo gadget, maybe, but nothing like a noticable user base Feb 15 17:10:20 timeless_mbp: actually, better still: cp foo.c foo.bak Feb 15 17:10:21 *Aren't Feb 15 17:10:30 "CVS: Conceivably Versions Something" Feb 15 17:10:32 vmlemon_: i really have no idea Feb 15 17:10:32 Andy80: While with skype, they already had everything they needed. Only matter of porting to N900 Feb 15 17:10:39 marienz: hey, it's better than svn Feb 15 17:10:41 * timeless_mbp hates svn Feb 15 17:10:44 Hukka: I didn't announce "N900 will be one of the first devices to have Flash 10.1" THEY did :) Feb 15 17:10:49 * marienz pets svn Feb 15 17:10:54 i still have a broken svn netcat of kde.org Feb 15 17:10:57 which i can't rsync Feb 15 17:11:00 Is there any way to get a notification when device gets locked/unlocked? Feb 15 17:11:01 because it dies in the process Feb 15 17:11:10 marienz: wanna help me try to figure that one out? Feb 15 17:11:14 Andy80: And have you seen it on other devices? No. You think Nokia funds the whole R&D? Feb 15 17:11:19 timeless_mbp: err, I'd rather not, sorry Feb 15 17:11:36 marienz: would rsync "foo:/x/x/x/x/x/x/x/1*" . Feb 15 17:11:39 do something useful? Feb 15 17:11:45 Hukka: I'm pretty sure Nokia "ported" Skype (Skype ships a binary library, Nokia made the telepathy plugin) Feb 15 17:11:54 the directory i'm trying to rsync has way too many files Feb 15 17:12:03 This has nothing to with Harmattan nor Meego anymore. This is just about finding points to whine and gripe. I don't even care about flash, I disabled it within a week I got N900 Feb 15 17:12:25 javispedro: at least, skype said that they worked on it together Feb 15 17:12:32 timeless_mbp: what, you're making rsync blow up by transferring too much through it? I didn't know that was possible Feb 15 17:12:42 marienz: hold on Feb 15 17:13:02 Hukka: you disabled because you don't use youtube maybe... but I use it Feb 15 17:13:08 Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on Feb 15 17:13:09 rpool/export/home/timeless/devel/kde.org 61Gi 9.8Gi 51Gi 17% /Users/timeless/devel/kde.org Feb 15 17:13:09 and lot of people do Feb 15 17:13:28 it is possible if you have slow network between your files and rsync timeouts in reading / waiting for other side to read the directory Feb 15 17:13:40 this is configurable, of course Feb 15 17:13:47 and 61G is nothing Feb 15 17:14:02 well, if you have 61 billion files, it might be bad Feb 15 17:14:27 thresh: the 61gb is a junk number Feb 15 17:14:31 size = used + avail Feb 15 17:14:32 thresh: notice 61G is just the filesystem size. 9.8Gi used is less than nothing. Feb 15 17:14:41 * timeless_mbp frowns Feb 15 17:14:44 ahd[B[Bah right Feb 15 17:14:57 rpool/export/home/timeless/devel/kde.org referenced 9.82G - Feb 15 17:14:57 rpool/export/home/timeless/devel/kde.org compressratio 1.24x - Feb 15 17:15:10 i'm pretty sure the repo is supposed to be 60gb Feb 15 17:15:14 still, pretty sure folks are routinely mirroring several GB through rsync Feb 15 17:15:16 * timeless_mbp wonders what happened to the rest of it Feb 15 17:15:27 marienz: they don't have nokia proxies :) Feb 15 17:15:41 or whatever crazy routing i'm using Feb 15 17:16:45 alterego: there is no "uitools" module in Qt for Maemo 5 :( I existed in ther early times, but was dropped (I don't remember why) to see that , try running : "apt-cache search uitools" Feb 15 17:17:48 lizardo: you always remember me this bad thing :P Feb 15 17:18:15 lizardo: it's clear they want to promote DUI only Feb 15 17:18:16 Andy80: yes, and now with the final release, it's written on stone :( Feb 15 17:20:12 lizardo: is there no way to load .ui files then? :( Feb 15 17:20:14 what's that DUI? Feb 15 17:20:25 that is in extras-devel Feb 15 17:20:41 alterego: Andy80 might know better as he tried that some time ago :) Feb 15 17:20:53 thresh: gitorius Feb 15 17:21:56 lizardo: yes, I tried and I simply decided to stop writing the GUI until something decent is made public :P I really don't want to become crazy "designing" a UI with vbox/hbox coding style :P Feb 15 17:22:16 timeless-mbp-2:revs timeless$ ls |wc -l Feb 15 17:22:16 243409 Feb 15 17:22:19 X-Fade: no, haven't received any emails Feb 15 17:22:20 lizardo: well, apparently qt creator support will be added to MADDE for PR1.2, so I'd presume that means they're going to reimplement it ... Feb 15 17:22:23 alterego: sorry, but don't know much of .ui files to know that ... Better ask someone who actually tried it ... I'm only saying is : there is no QtUiTools module in Maemo 5, so PySide can't support it Feb 15 17:22:24 i think the problem is that it dies trying to scan that Feb 15 17:22:27 oh, duh Feb 15 17:22:27 thresh: Maem 6 UI framework Feb 15 17:22:31 sorry, this is the wrong computer Feb 15 17:22:33 timeless_mbp: that's nothing for rsync Feb 15 17:22:37 the real repo is 60gb Feb 15 17:22:40 I wrote a draft of a UI and after 1 month I really don't know how to touch the code to modify it :P Feb 15 17:22:44 this is my failed attempt at an rsync, which died at 10gb :) Feb 15 17:23:04 Andy80: right, same position I'm in then :P Feb 15 17:23:08 wazd: Then the limit isn't reached yet or so. Feb 15 17:23:14 X-Fade: aaah Feb 15 17:23:21 X-Fade: found it in spam :P Feb 15 17:23:21 I know that Beethoven composed music even without being able to hear it... but we're not all Beethoven :D Feb 15 17:23:26 timeless_mbp: what are the options of your rsync command line? Feb 15 17:23:31 wazd: lol Feb 15 17:23:49 thresh: how much time do you have available? Feb 15 17:23:53 alterego: You can transform your question in a general one and ask it on the Qt interest mailing list (or on #qt) : e.g. "Can I load .ui files on Qt for Maemo5" Feb 15 17:24:01 i'd like to do something else now before i vpn in and check the right computer Feb 15 17:24:10 timeless_mbp: i plan to go asleep in 3 hours Feb 15 17:24:13 Heh Feb 15 17:24:21 ok, let's talk in an hour? Feb 15 17:24:25 sure Feb 15 17:24:37 lizardo: I'd rather write my own Python pure XML interpreter for .ui files :P Feb 15 17:24:45 anyway, i think that roughly there are a million files in the directory Feb 15 17:24:57 as far as I understand it (wrt .ui files), the tool for compiling them isn't built on maemo Feb 15 17:25:05 but can be built manually Feb 15 17:25:11 thresh: is there a way to do "1?????" ? Feb 15 17:25:15 (msdos notation) Feb 15 17:25:21 alterego: just asking is easier ;) Feb 15 17:25:25 I may be utterly wrong, I'm not having a good day, just repeating what I seem to remember from #qt-maemo Feb 15 17:25:26 timeless_mbp: you mean where? Feb 15 17:25:32 w00t: compiling? I thought they were interpreter at run time? Feb 15 17:25:41 thresh: as the specifier to tell rsync what to sync Feb 15 17:25:48 timeless_mbp: yeah, use --exclude and --include Feb 15 17:25:50 alterego: bah, let me go find logs so I can be sure of what I'm talking about Feb 15 17:25:59 i've compiled .ui files in scratchbox Feb 15 17:26:10 lizardo: the lastest announce about QtQuick looks quite clear about what they want to do about UI designing... Feb 15 17:26:15 w00t: don't bother I think I've found it :P Feb 15 17:26:23 Andy80: link? Feb 15 17:26:36 lizardo: sometimes you really surprise me, really :D Feb 15 17:27:13 Andy80: on Qt land , I monitor the qt labs blogs and that's it :) Feb 15 17:27:18 w00t: I think it would involve me writing wrappers for my compiled UI widgets unfortunately. Feb 15 17:27:28 Andy80: never hear of "QtQuick" , really :) Feb 15 17:27:30 And, tbh, that is not where code needs to be optimmized ^.^ Feb 15 17:27:34 heard* Feb 15 17:27:40 lizardo: wait I go to find the link again... Feb 15 17:29:16 http://pastebin.com/d2d575f0d <--- alterego Feb 15 17:30:39 lizardo: http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2010/02/15/meet-qt-quick/ Feb 15 17:31:26 \o/ working sharing plugin for yandex fotki Feb 15 17:31:31 Andy80: I never understood why they have two separate blog sytes :) Feb 15 17:31:58 sites* Feb 15 17:32:26 lizardo: the thing that really surprise me is that is not the first time you (and your team) are not aware about something Nokia s working to :\ just like Python was (maybe it is) a secondary objective Feb 15 17:32:55 lizardo: take this as my personal hopinion too :P Feb 15 17:33:00 Andy80: oh Qt Quick == Declarative UI, I knew about it, just didn't know the "cute" name :) Feb 15 17:33:18 lizardo: this sounds better to me :) Feb 15 17:33:34 Andy80: we are not nokia... Feb 15 17:35:15 w00t: you're a genius :) Feb 15 17:35:38 * alterego thinks maemo.org should have an AdHoc karma facility so he can donate some karma to w00t :) Feb 15 17:36:08 alterego: or just cursed with a far too good memory :p Feb 15 17:36:13 :) Feb 15 17:37:08 Andy80: git clone git://gitorious.org/pyside/pyside-tools.git - check that out, command line tool to turn .ui files into .py files :) Feb 15 17:37:55 That should really be on the wiki some where. Feb 15 17:39:08 alterego: don't know how_much/if that tool is updated... maybe lizardo can tell us something more. By the way, I don't think it supports "all" the Maemo related UI. It's useless to design a UI with QtDesigner if you see it how it looks like on a desktop PC. Maemo UI is quite different: checkboxes, scroll boxes, ecc.... all is different Feb 15 17:39:38 Andy80: agreed, but it's something I can build on. Feb 15 17:40:15 X-Fade: so, I've promoted the package, that's it? :) Feb 15 17:40:41 wazd: Do I need to make it harder? Feb 15 17:41:32 X-Fade: yep :D Feb 15 17:41:36 Andy80 , alterego , w00t : what I can say is that pyside-tools has not received many updates lately ... As I said I know nearly nothing about .ui files , but I ask if you can try it on current Maemo and report issues it would be really nice :) Feb 15 17:41:59 there is a "pyside-tools" package on extras-devel Feb 15 17:42:39 lizardo: awesome, thanks. Feb 15 17:43:01 and report on #pyside (or on PySide bugzilla ) any problems you have using it on Maemo Feb 15 17:44:27 Andy80: if I understood correctly, the QtQuick think was only announced today, right ? Feb 15 17:45:16 lizardo: to the "big public" yes, but it's basically the DUI stuff, nothing more, nothing less Feb 15 17:46:30 Andy80: do you know "Declarative UI" is not the same as "DUI" , right ? Feb 15 17:46:43 Andy80: actually one has nothing to do with the other , AFAIK Feb 15 17:47:26 timeless-mbp-2:mw timeless$ rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at /SourceCache/rsync/rsync-35.2/rsync/main.c(992) [sender=2.6.9] Feb 15 17:47:30 * timeless_mbp cries Feb 15 17:47:33 what does that mean? Feb 15 17:47:38 does that mean it "finished"? Feb 15 17:47:39 Andy80: declarative UI (the technology employed on QtQuick) is new way do design UIs , which AFAIK is based on QGraphicsView Feb 15 17:48:28 i think i've d/c-ed 5 times since i joined Feb 15 17:48:40 hm, no Feb 15 17:48:49 10 times on this network Feb 15 17:48:54 i joined 30mins ago Feb 15 17:50:24 windows phone 7 looks very crappy Feb 15 17:50:49 which one doesn't? Feb 15 17:50:56 Andy80: DUI (if are referring to things like http://maemo.org/packages/view/dui-demos/) come from "DirectUI" Feb 15 17:51:09 uhsf: did you see android 2.1 from world mobile congress in barcelona? Feb 15 17:51:42 lizardo: sorry I was playing with maemo6 widgets available in extras-devel :D Feb 15 17:52:47 mhh, there's no way of putting contacts into subgroups, or of deleting contacts from the phone but not from the respecitve IM server (e.g. ICQ) right? Feb 15 17:52:58 everybody in comments compare how locked windows is compared to iphone and android. everybody is so ignorant. maemo i millions times more open than any of these. it's the only device that allows me to do what I really want. n900 is the very ONLY device. Feb 15 17:53:27 wao: i didn't. how is it? Feb 15 17:53:40 * javispedro mistypes meego as meebo again Feb 15 17:53:43 uhsf: looks fine, check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzxpGfvlm9M Feb 15 17:53:57 at huawei u8110 Feb 15 17:54:46 me ego is large Feb 15 17:57:02 man Feb 15 17:57:09 maemo and moblin? Feb 15 17:57:18 Don't you start over here Feb 15 17:57:20 say it aint so Feb 15 17:57:22 You are late? Feb 15 17:57:27 quite Feb 15 17:57:36 Do you have logs? Feb 15 17:57:44 (I'm ignoring parts and joins) Feb 15 17:57:45 just read the news when catching up on rss Feb 15 17:57:53 he just joined, hukka Feb 15 17:57:59 Want logs :? Feb 15 17:58:06 There's plenty Feb 15 17:58:08 what distro is moblin based on? Feb 15 17:58:10 how about a 2 sentence summary Feb 15 17:58:20 uhsf: Moblin Feb 15 17:58:35 two sentence: Kiss N900. Goodbye Feb 15 17:58:40 like n900 unaffected, maemo community generally pissed Feb 15 17:58:48 i wonder how they will merge debian based with moblin Feb 15 17:58:51 KamuiN900: Harmattan is not Meego, but meego-compatible. Source will come in few weeks, then we know what's what. Feb 15 17:59:03 what packaging system? Feb 15 17:59:04 count me in as pissed Feb 15 17:59:05 KamuiN900: maemo-community is always pissed Feb 15 17:59:07 In general Feb 15 17:59:08 hello when i try to film something with the n900 camera, i got an error "Echec de l'opération" (don't really know how to translate it, maybe ; operation fail), does someone has this problem a solution ? Feb 15 17:59:09 lol Feb 15 17:59:13 simula_away: Read the faq Feb 15 17:59:20 proof intel feels like they can't compete Feb 15 17:59:36 thats not proof Feb 15 17:59:50 davyg: camera cant be used while audio is in use Feb 15 17:59:58 for some reason Feb 15 18:00:30 strange but ok and what coold use sound without asking me(i don't listen anything) ? Feb 15 18:01:11 lcuk: fine, but it sure -seems- like it ^_^ Feb 15 18:05:17 can someone recommend an mpd client other than this huuge cutempc that I see in the apt manager, which is non-CLI (i.e. not ncmpcpp or the like) Feb 15 18:05:24 one that works nicely on the small screen. Feb 15 18:07:32 * Mousey pokes destinal-home Feb 15 18:13:16 Mousey: :) Feb 15 18:19:22 /join #meego Feb 15 18:21:35 god i hate the move from apt/debian to moblin's rpm/fedora Feb 15 18:21:55 I couldn't be sadder about the whole thing :( Feb 15 18:22:04 i think intel devs are only ones happy with that change :/ Feb 15 18:22:22 discouraging use of the GPL? Whatever. Feb 15 18:23:20 Shapeshifter: mmpc Feb 15 18:24:03 johnsu01: encouraging GPLv2, from their site Feb 15 18:25:10 * simula_ just bought "The Debian System" yesterday :P hehe Feb 15 18:27:18 luke-jr: not for the "user experience" -- they are pushing BSD licensing Feb 15 18:27:37 meego Feb 15 18:27:40 johnsu01: thanks Feb 15 18:28:04 how they think this policy is inline with distributions' licensing policy -- where everything is predominantly GPL and these days GPLv3, is beyond me Feb 15 18:28:45 as is how they think having a GPL system supports proprietary plugins Feb 15 18:29:29 open source or not, symbian s^3 really has nothing on maemo Feb 15 18:29:55 it's really the linux mobile day today, i wasn't expecting thiss Feb 15 18:30:46 is there any chance that since meego will be more fully open source then maemo that it might be more easily back ported to the n800 or n810? Feb 15 18:31:02 is there a command to know which apply use the sound system on maemo ? Feb 15 18:31:08 tadthebuilder: unsure, let's see the code first. Feb 15 18:31:19 ah true I guess that is important haha Feb 15 18:31:29 i just want more life for my n800... Feb 15 18:31:43 tadthebuilder: personally I don't think there's any reason to believe this will be any more free than maemo Feb 15 18:32:07 tadthebuilder: N8x0 would require open source hardware support first Feb 15 18:32:12 ah true Feb 15 18:32:26 it will most likely be more open source since the linux foundation is having a hand in it correct Feb 15 18:32:28 tadthebuilder: the current proprietary components on the n900 etc would just be justified as "proprietary extensions" Feb 15 18:32:45 anyone here used confml on maemo? Feb 15 18:32:49 ah, as in not considered the OS but things that run on top of it? Feb 15 18:32:50 i really don't understand people complaining. personnally, i would be happy to use maemo as it is now on my n900 for years Feb 15 18:32:56 google indicates it existed once Feb 15 18:33:05 tadthebuilder: "Linux Foundation" has what real relevance exactly? Feb 15 18:33:49 I was assuming they would have a stronger stance of free software than nokia or intel Feb 15 18:33:50 alone Feb 15 18:33:51 Hello Feb 15 18:34:44 uhsf: I think the main problem would be the fact that people would stop making software for it thus you would have less programs to work with Feb 15 18:35:54 the main purpose for my n900 is being a phone. and it couldn't do this any better. Feb 15 18:36:06 if you wanted a phone Feb 15 18:36:14 why did you pay 500 dollars? Feb 15 18:36:22 i have a real micropc for my computing needs Feb 15 18:36:23 you can get a phone that makes call for like 15 Feb 15 18:36:30 so thats what you wanted Feb 15 18:36:38 i chose the n900 because i'm a real linux fan Feb 15 18:36:49 and i don't regret it one bit Feb 15 18:36:53 thought main purpose of n900 was a mid ? Feb 15 18:37:05 yes, I consider it a mid too... Feb 15 18:37:20 can the n900 connect to internet through usb (not the other way around) :) Feb 15 18:37:32 of course i will use it as it's full capabilities Feb 15 18:37:33 n900 can do anything :) Feb 15 18:37:37 ssh, etc Feb 15 18:37:40 sobczyk: if ovi suite worked Feb 15 18:37:46 sobczyk: sure, though it isnt supported Feb 15 18:37:55 google usbnet Feb 15 18:37:59 I have linux no internet data of wifi and want to do update Feb 15 18:38:19 but that's just a big plus. maybe my expectations were lower after owning a neo freerunner Feb 15 18:39:27 the news i'm most disappointed in today is buglabs supporting android. they really should have chosen maemo Feb 15 18:40:02 uhsf: chosen Maemo how? Feb 15 18:40:14 uhsf: Maemo is not licensed to third-parties AFAIK Feb 15 18:40:51 also, maemo no longer exists. Feb 15 18:41:58 * oscillik checks his N900 Feb 15 18:42:01 Maemo exists! Feb 15 18:42:05 i have seen it! Feb 15 18:42:15 i've seen it as well o= Feb 15 18:44:28 do I void my warrant by rooting n900? Feb 15 18:44:41 sobczyk: no Feb 15 18:44:42 no Feb 15 18:46:19 Hrm, interesting. Feb 15 18:46:27 I guess Joiku is publishing to Extras? Feb 15 18:46:48 <|R> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4929 <- any news on SIP URI Dialing solutions? Feb 15 18:46:49 Bug 4929: Direct (no proxy or registrar) SIP URI dialing Feb 15 18:46:49 sobczyk: you can't void warranties by rooting devices, at least in the US Feb 15 18:48:32 hi @all Feb 15 18:48:50 i read that maemo and moblin get together Feb 15 18:49:31 does anyone know wether MeeGoo will run with the nokia n900 ? Feb 15 18:49:36 TheOne: they are partying at #meego Feb 15 18:49:49 |R: so um Feb 15 18:49:53 * simula_ chuckles Feb 15 18:49:56 it would seem that if you want that to work Feb 15 18:50:05 you'll have to write a sip account provider Feb 15 18:50:17 at least, i don't see why a framework should 'magically' do this for you Feb 15 18:50:23 it's a layering violation Feb 15 18:50:24 ohh okay, i doent recognize that they have an extra channel, thx i will ask there ;) Feb 15 18:50:33 |R: telepathy is open source and pluggable Feb 15 18:50:35 write a demo Feb 15 18:50:54 if you can make it compelling and easy to deal with, maybe we can get it integrated Feb 15 18:50:58 worst case, people can install it Feb 15 18:51:04 <|R> timeless_mbp: well, it should just allow me to write user@sipprovider.com Feb 15 18:51:12 <|R> that's what a SIP phone is (in part) for :) Feb 15 18:51:23 <|R> but yes i can setup aliases on an asterisk box... Feb 15 18:51:27 |R: framework based software doesn't work that way Feb 15 18:51:34 <|R> that just sucks to centralize a decentralized solution Feb 15 18:52:12 i'm happy to have chosen maemo before the meego announcement because i'm now part of the true pionneers of the origins of the first and biggest free software movement for mobile devices Feb 15 18:54:55 guys, someone know how to "translate" the Name field in the .desktop file ? ( e.g. Name=sket_ap_sketch_title ) Feb 15 18:58:26 |R: I assume if you do have a SIP account configured URI dialing works fine (assuming your provider handles?) Feb 15 19:02:13 b0unc3: Name[fi]="foo" Feb 15 19:02:21 Moo. Feb 15 19:03:05 moo Feb 15 19:03:39 <|R> SplasPood: well, from a software client on a linux box yes Feb 15 19:03:59 |R: no, i mean from the N900 when you have a sip account configured/enabled, does it then work Feb 15 19:04:01 <|R> SplasPood: ekiga -> asterisk sip user or some such... Feb 15 19:04:19 <|R> SplasPood: well i don't think you can enter user@someip.net as a telephone number Feb 15 19:04:21 <|R> that's the only problem Feb 15 19:04:34 Hrm, interesting.. yet it still says No sip accounts avail? Feb 15 19:04:54 <|R> or maybe i'm lost... let me try again :P Feb 15 19:05:03 Which, to me at least, implies it at least KNOWS it should be using sip Feb 15 19:05:26 <|R> so, no it only allows numbers, +, #, and such Feb 15 19:05:41 <|R> oh wait Feb 15 19:06:14 <|R> nevermind, i just made a fool of myself Feb 15 19:06:25 <|R> if i select sip (not in cell mode) then i can type letters Feb 15 19:06:30 <|R> big oopsie ;) Feb 15 19:06:36 ahh, yea it's a bit confusing in that regard Feb 15 19:07:07 <|R> well, I'm a happy camper then, just waiting for Bug 6936 and it'll be perfect :P Feb 15 19:07:08 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6936 Caller voice gets minced after some time when taking call via SIP Feb 15 19:07:54 <|R> but i guess you still need a connected SIP account Feb 15 19:10:10 skype doesn't seem to be working for me Feb 15 19:10:18 keeps saying authentication failed Feb 15 19:10:23 MohammadAG: that would be the default state ;) Feb 15 19:10:28 readding the account says wrong username and pass Feb 15 19:10:43 lol zash Feb 15 19:10:59 i need skype Feb 15 19:11:13 for call out (and to abuse its US number) Feb 15 19:12:14 b0unc3: you can add a domain field Feb 15 19:12:20 which is how nokia does it Feb 15 19:12:32 (anyone else having my problem?) Feb 15 19:13:14 b0unc3: X-Text-Domain= Feb 15 19:13:37 that's used in conjunction with Name= to resolve Name's identifier to a localized string Feb 15 19:14:02 valdyn: please don't recommend Name[..] Feb 15 19:14:04 it doesn't scale Feb 15 19:14:16 it means that if someone later wants to add Chinese or whatever, they can't Feb 15 19:14:50 Evidence now available from various sources, including recently declassified U.S. State Department documents, shows that the Taliban regime led by Mullah Mohammad Omar imposed strict isolation on Osama bin Laden after 1998 to prevent him from carrying out any plots against the United States. Feb 15 19:14:55 damn Feb 15 19:14:57 |R: yeah, sip address dialing works, i've used it Feb 15 19:15:24 <|R> timeless_mbp: my bad, but the account requirement is still a (much more minor) problem... :) Feb 15 19:15:27 http://tomasz.sterna.tv/2010/02/play-games-on-nokia-n900-with-ps3-sixaxis-controller/ Feb 15 19:15:38 pupnik: That has been known before Feb 15 19:15:41 timeless_mbp, so I can use gettext to let my software translate it , right ? Feb 15 19:15:42 |R: as i said, write an account provider Feb 15 19:15:42 anyone here done this? Feb 15 19:15:49 b0unc3: well err Feb 15 19:15:54 RST38h: i need a pastebuffer previewer Feb 15 19:16:00 pupnik_, yeah Feb 15 19:16:02 you can use a .po file to generate a .mo file Feb 15 19:16:03 pupnik: Basically they could not get rid of him, as it was against all the muslim hospitality rules Feb 15 19:16:15 and hildon will use that to show the appropriate translated string Feb 15 19:16:18 did sixpair work for you MohammadAG ? Feb 15 19:16:19 pupnik: So they did the next possible thing, i.e. isolated him Feb 15 19:16:42 whoa... did maemo die today? Feb 15 19:16:50 pupnik: Not that it worked on Americans, bent on bombing some ass "for the country" Feb 15 19:17:00 sixpair? Feb 15 19:17:18 * pupnik_ is sorry for pastefail :( Feb 15 19:17:26 timeless_mbp, my only problem is to translate the Name field on the .desktop file... not how to create it... Feb 15 19:17:26 oh did it on windows Feb 15 19:17:37 b0unc3: sorry, confused Feb 15 19:17:40 was away somewhere, and linux wasn't installed on the pc i used Feb 15 19:17:40 you write: Feb 15 19:17:48 but yeah it should work pupnik Feb 15 19:17:48 pupnik: It is actually funny, because most of these "news" have been known when the war just started, but ignored then =( Feb 15 19:17:49 Name=my_ap_name_identifier Feb 15 19:17:51 <|R> timeless_mbp: wish i knew how / could :) Feb 15 19:17:53 pupnik_, * Feb 15 19:18:03 X-Text-Domain=my_ap_name Feb 15 19:18:11 then you write my_ap_name.po with Feb 15 19:18:17 msgid "my_ap_name_identifier" Feb 15 19:18:22 msgstr "I suck" Feb 15 19:18:36 then you use msgfmt to compile my_ap_name.po into my_ap_name.mo Feb 15 19:18:58 then you drop my_ap_name.mo into the appropriate /usr/share/locale/$LANG/LC_MESSAGES Feb 15 19:19:12 * timeless_mbp tries to understand where the complicated step is Feb 15 19:21:33 can i edit /usr/share/applications/hildon/osso-xterm.desktop to start a *new* terminal instance? Feb 15 19:22:15 pupnik: iirc there's a way to do what you want, yes Feb 15 19:22:30 timeless_mbp, you didn't understand my question (probably for my bad english), btw I understood how I can solve my problem... thanks anyway ;) Feb 15 19:22:30 * pupnik_ tries to think real hard Feb 15 19:23:00 b0unc3: your question didn't make any sense Feb 15 19:23:18 gettext is a program which is used to extract localizable strings from a source file Feb 15 19:23:28 .desktop files are not typically considered source files Feb 15 19:23:29 ALL YOUR COMMUNITIES ARE BELONG TO US. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED Feb 15 19:23:33 so you can't use gettext Feb 15 19:24:01 however, gettext is the underlying technology used by hildon-desktop to convert your Name + X-Text-Domain into a localized string Feb 15 19:24:13 beceaus that's how open source commuinities work Feb 15 19:24:48 i put some flac files on my n900 and i can not get the media player to detect them.... i installed ogg support, and extra codec support Feb 15 19:24:52 but... they just dont show Feb 15 19:24:57 evening Feb 15 19:25:02 hi Feb 15 19:25:03 if i go to file browser, i can click on them and they play Feb 15 19:25:10 but the media player just doesnt "see" them Feb 15 19:25:13 any ideas? Feb 15 19:25:15 etamme: proper support is in extras-devel iirc Feb 15 19:25:34 hi keesj Feb 15 19:25:46 valdyn, is this all b/c of the tags? Feb 15 19:25:50 interesting to see the it's not using .deb tantrums Feb 15 19:26:30 etamme: I have no idea, works for me however Feb 15 19:26:31 the mer people worked on the suse build servers *rpm* based stuff Feb 15 19:26:39 timeless_mbp, I try to explain : I have an app that read all the .desktop and return the Name field. Now I would that when the name is e.g. Name=sket_ap_sketch_title it automatically translate it, understand now ? Feb 15 19:26:46 packaging is just to complicated anyway :p Feb 15 19:26:50 valdyn what did you install to get it to work? Feb 15 19:26:52 RIP hildon? Feb 15 19:27:02 b0unc3: there's a gettext function where you can provide the domain Feb 15 19:27:11 you'd use that and pass the value from X-Text-Domain Feb 15 19:27:12 etamme: i believe its the new ogg support package Feb 15 19:27:17 valdyn, ok Feb 15 19:27:17 and yes, that's almost understandable Feb 15 19:27:28 etamme: what was the name? you can look at the changelog from the n900 gui package manager Feb 15 19:27:53 timeless_mbp, ok, thanks for your help ;) Feb 15 19:28:07 b0unc3: your original question was parsed by everyone as "i want to write a localizable .desktop file, how do i do it?" Feb 15 19:28:24 my device always locks up for a while installing codedc related stuff... then i pretty much have to reboot it for the media player to work at all Feb 15 19:28:27 haha Feb 15 19:28:31 because when people normally say "how do i translate" they mean "I want to write an app with support for translations" Feb 15 19:28:33 timeless_mbp, I'm sorry for my bad english :( Feb 15 19:28:42 b0unc3: don't be sorry. learn. Feb 15 19:28:50 timeless_mbp, sure Feb 15 19:29:09 you shouldn't have used 'translate' in your question Feb 15 19:29:29 because you aren't translating, you're converting and displaying *using* the existing translations Feb 15 19:29:42 had you used those magic words, you would have gotten the answer you sought Feb 15 19:29:48 make sense? Feb 15 19:30:03 timeless_mbp, yes Feb 15 19:30:07 good :) Feb 15 19:30:21 hmm, not so impressed with KDE, all the fonts are too small Feb 15 19:30:36 lardman: thats configurable Feb 15 19:30:45 lardman: Maemo historically has not provided correct DPI info for X11 Feb 15 19:30:59 valdyn: yeah, but seems to vary between apps too Feb 15 19:31:03 timeless_mbp: desktop actually Feb 15 19:31:15 lardman: oh, heh Feb 15 19:31:28 lardman: that should not be the case Feb 15 19:31:28 hi timeless Feb 15 19:31:30 valdyn, nice - works now thanks Feb 15 19:31:31 hiya Feb 15 19:31:38 following the news? Feb 15 19:31:41 bloody paper - I sent them that Limo is not Mobolin, they changed it, and censored my comment! Feb 15 19:31:44 yep Feb 15 19:31:48 valdyn: perhaps the apps just need a restart, will test Feb 15 19:32:09 guysoft42: revisionist history :) Feb 15 19:32:11 * timeless_mbp approves Feb 15 19:32:19 well, in the long run it's good news Feb 15 19:32:29 your comment wouldn't have made sense after they fixed the article Feb 15 19:32:47 timeless, yes, but it means i wrote the data in the article, not their stupid reporter Feb 15 19:33:15 guysoft42: i'd bet their editor keeps score and the reporter will suffer if the score gets too out of whack Feb 15 19:33:17 don't sweat it Feb 15 19:33:24 aSIMULAtor: i wonder if the debianites in maemo are throwing chairs yet Feb 15 19:33:27 I feel like this merger should be something to motivate both communities. Feb 15 19:33:34 * GeneralAntilles mostly feels like he's been punched in the stomach. Feb 15 19:33:37 timeless_mbp, i dont think so Feb 15 19:33:46 GeneralAntilles: it felt like that for a while for me too but it got better Feb 15 19:33:50 wow Feb 15 19:34:00 yeah when i read the articles about it, have to admit, that was the same reaction Feb 15 19:34:03 I charged the N900 24 hours ago and the battery only went down 1 bar Feb 15 19:34:04 ÞD Feb 15 19:34:05 :D Feb 15 19:34:08 aSimula Feb 15 19:34:09 * simula_ 's feeling better too Feb 15 19:34:09 moo. Feb 15 19:34:14 oh HAI! Feb 15 19:34:20 Stskeeps, there's a lot of emotional stuff tied up in a community like this. Feb 15 19:34:21 oh there's another simulator Feb 15 19:34:22 in here Feb 15 19:34:31 they breed! Feb 15 19:34:33 aSIMULAtor: yeah, that one's confusing Feb 15 19:34:34 GeneralAntilles: of course, and i had Mer included in it too, and well, my job, too Feb 15 19:34:37 Stskeeps, having somebody come in and invalidate most of that isn't a good way to go about it. Feb 15 19:34:38 nah, i'm simula... like simula67 Feb 15 19:35:06 ah, persistence pays off Feb 15 19:35:06 i guessed that... :P Feb 15 19:35:07 TestChidlrenSelectionL Feb 15 19:35:12 heh :) Feb 15 19:35:25 Stskeeps, it's going to be a problem with Moblin having such a small community and MeeGo having only technical direction. Feb 15 19:35:55 does video calling work with Skype on the N900? Feb 15 19:36:02 GeneralAntilles: i think it's where we fit in. Feb 15 19:36:13 lardman, rumor says PR1.2. Feb 15 19:36:15 GeneralAntilles: it's a land rush :P Feb 15 19:36:33 GeneralAntilles: ah, so best not hope to have a video call with my parents atm then Feb 15 19:36:44 * lardman fires up the laptop which should at least work Feb 15 19:37:06 GeneralAntilles: thanks btw Feb 15 19:40:37 so what's new overnight folks? Feb 15 19:40:50 oh boy, where do we startt Feb 15 19:40:58 asj_: http://www.meego.com Feb 15 19:41:17 yeah that mess broke just befor eI went to bed Feb 15 19:41:21 so we have Maemo 6 and meego? Feb 15 19:41:34 Are we really going to be building our future community on DRUPAL?. . .. Feb 15 19:41:51 GeneralAntilles: well, drupal or midgard Feb 15 19:41:55 choose your poison Feb 15 19:42:22 the more places Qt goes the better for me, I just can't stomach going from debs to rpm Feb 15 19:42:43 Stskeeps, Midgard. . . . Feb 15 19:43:13 the devil you know... Feb 15 19:43:52 zerojay: the plus side is that things seem to start out as a public bugtracker :P Feb 15 19:44:13 jo Feb 15 19:44:20 * javispedro is on #meebo just counting number of people who mistype it Feb 15 19:44:21 seems maemo is going to rpm Feb 15 19:44:25 than I will say goodbye Feb 15 19:44:37 meebo is that IM service Feb 15 19:44:40 .com Feb 15 19:44:57 MiXu-: yep, which I typed nearly a billion of times before getting my tablet, so ... muscle memory. Feb 15 19:45:03 woglinde, we've still got, like, 2 years. Feb 15 19:45:04 :) Feb 15 19:45:13 woglinde, Maemo community is big with lots of clout. Feb 15 19:45:14 s/of/ Feb 15 19:45:22 woglinde, we'll just steamroll them back. Feb 15 19:45:23 I dont think mobilin will switch back Feb 15 19:45:33 or maybee they will Feb 15 19:45:38 after seeing the rpm mess Feb 15 19:45:41 GeneralAntilles: i really hope you're right :) Feb 15 19:45:45 * GeneralAntilles feels a bit steamrolled today. Feb 15 19:45:48 but I don't think so :( Feb 15 19:45:58 woglinde: they won't switch. they're talking about improving RPM though. Feb 15 19:46:26 javis did you ever try to get kernel-src.rpm Feb 15 19:46:27 javispedro, that's what they say today after living in their own little world for so long. Feb 15 19:46:30 GeneralAntilles: in other news, the Maemo 6 UI framework is in extras-devel. Feb 15 19:46:33 and build kernels out of it Feb 15 19:46:35 thats hell Feb 15 19:46:37 woglinde: nope. Feb 15 19:46:59 but my personal opinion is that I'm so tired of the entire packaging wars that I would gladly accept ANY standard, even if it's as ugly as opensolaris packaging. Feb 15 19:47:25 javispedro, clearly you need to pick up a battle axe and unify them, then. :P Feb 15 19:47:42 javispedro: FreeBSD packaging! Feb 15 19:47:44 * RST38h hides Feb 15 19:47:57 heh Feb 15 19:47:58 * GeneralAntilles is already exhausted. Feb 15 19:48:09 Stskeeps: orly? are there any demos already? Feb 15 19:48:15 RST38h: comes with a few Feb 15 19:48:22 RST38h: widgets-gallery i think Feb 15 19:48:22 * RST38h goes to check Feb 15 19:48:26 I didn't read source code yet though Feb 15 19:48:32 but It was on free Feb 15 19:48:38 Sorry to act stupid, but are there screenshots? Feb 15 19:49:09 RST38h, there's a YouTube video on Planet. Feb 15 19:49:21 lol, Comcast is rebranding too. Feb 15 19:49:26 The world is ending today. Feb 15 19:49:41 GeneralAntilles: eh?? Feb 15 19:50:05 Xfinity Feb 15 19:50:08 relol. Feb 15 19:50:14 http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2010/02/13/comcast_enters_rebranding_territory/ Feb 15 19:50:24 * GeneralAntilles should just go back to bed. Feb 15 19:50:32 it's Xfinitikitastic! Feb 15 19:51:01 GeneralAntilles: xfinity is days old news Feb 15 19:51:10 good nite ga Feb 15 19:51:20 wiretapped, guess I missed it. Feb 15 19:51:37 i would just like to say fucking fuck fuck fuck rpm Feb 15 19:51:47 Yeah. :\ Feb 15 19:51:50 hi Feb 15 19:51:59 hm seems to braindead to bring now out a android phone with version 1.6 Feb 15 19:52:00 * GeneralAntilles doesn't think Moblin should be dictating that stuff to the larger community. Feb 15 19:52:02 +me Feb 15 19:52:11 * GeneralAntilles is still in favor of steamrolling. :P Feb 15 19:52:46 OTOH, http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/01/04/are-maemo5-developer-tools-obsolete/ (yes) Feb 15 19:52:54 * evilrob just ordered his N900 Feb 15 19:53:01 As it can be read in many places Maemo is based on Debian. The problem arrives when someone asks ?which version of Debian??? Feb 15 19:53:05 The answer is ?oldstable? (etch) + parts from ?stable? (lenny) + some updates from ?testing? (squeeze). Feb 15 19:53:25 I can kind of imagine it wasn't too hard for intel to argue against that mess Feb 15 19:53:33 but what is moblin based on? Feb 15 19:53:45 does it actually matter? Feb 15 19:53:47 parts of fedora and opensuse. Feb 15 19:54:01 like maemo, it seems to have evolved into its own distro. Feb 15 19:54:11 Exactly. Feb 15 19:54:21 So what maemo is based on, doesn't really make a difference Feb 15 19:54:39 To say it doesn't is ... lying a bit. Feb 15 19:54:49 only postive point on moblin is that they are shipping images now with iegd integrated Feb 15 19:54:50 It does, specially from a developer perspective. Feb 15 19:55:05 the distro? Feb 15 19:55:28 Yes Feb 15 19:55:53 I guess it doesn't matter to the developers Nokia loves (those who can use Madde for their projects, for example). Feb 15 19:56:08 because as internal developer for the platorm you need to deliver something special? Feb 15 19:56:50 i'd like things to go to their own /opt directory by default, with just a symlink to /usr/bin for the .exe Feb 15 19:56:58 when building in sdk Feb 15 19:57:00 I tend to care about the developers who use a platform for them it really should not matter the simpler the better Feb 15 19:57:30 pupnik_: that's generally referred to in the unix world as a depot. Feb 15 19:57:37 there are depot management tools out there. Feb 15 19:57:40 Is it possible to alter the playback speed of media played using the kmplayer maemo port? Feb 15 19:57:45 pupnik, that's one macro redefinition in rpm :> Feb 15 19:57:57 you'd see something like a package installed to /opt/depot/ Feb 15 19:58:03 being able to listen to podcasts at high speed would be great Feb 15 19:58:05 it's a bit fiddly right now. Feb 15 19:58:08 keesj: for example, it determines the path of config files, packaging policies and tools, etc. Feb 15 19:58:56 it seems to be getting easier now that for example both share upstart-style init files. Feb 15 19:59:23 that's all linux standard based not distro stuff(besides the packaging ...) Feb 15 19:59:59 not really. lsb still mandates init.d scripts.. Feb 15 20:01:43 and debian has this tradition of modifying every app to its own standards (count the number of .*rc files on $HOME in Debian or Debian-derived and the number of .*rc files in any other distro -- Debian patches packages' config files paths) Feb 15 20:03:14 javispedro, every distro does that to some extent, but without all that fuss debian is making about it Feb 15 20:04:07 debian has a good habbit of not following upstream configuration indeed Feb 15 20:04:10 hm git 1.7 Feb 15 20:04:20 wolf^: I'm pretty sure Debian does it most, as it causes quite a bit of headaches. Feb 15 20:04:34 javispedro: LSB sucks Feb 15 20:05:18 javispedro, don't know, don't care really, but the amount of... stuff... about debian politics embedded in packaging instructions is just too much Feb 15 20:05:36 Hmm...Looks like Win7 does not have user app multitasking too Feb 15 20:05:39 but seriousely what I think really is needed is a distro that does cross compilation and at least debian sucks at it ! Feb 15 20:05:47 Plus it still looks kinda ugly Feb 15 20:06:02 RST38h: at least it's not yet another iphone clone. Feb 15 20:06:10 keesj: Gentoo Feb 15 20:06:11 well, it's a iphone clone, but not 100%. Feb 15 20:06:39 gentoo or oe Feb 15 20:06:44 javispedro: it is Feb 15 20:06:55 OE isn't a distro :p Feb 15 20:06:56 javispedro: just attempting to be "different" by being uglier Feb 15 20:07:03 keesj, pld, but you won't be happy with it Feb 15 20:07:18 pld? Feb 15 20:07:22 pld-linux.org Feb 15 20:08:47 Hi all Feb 15 20:08:59 lol Feb 15 20:09:01 http://meego.com/garage Feb 15 20:09:04 wolf^: downloading :p Feb 15 20:09:39 keesj, main target are developers and administrators Feb 15 20:09:51 keesj, the recommended installation method is from rescue cd Feb 15 20:09:58 the meego website feels better then maemo and "download" is really about download and not "applications" Feb 15 20:10:06 keesj, maybe there's some user-friendly installer already, but I don't really know Feb 15 20:10:59 anyone got maemo6 demo youtube url? Feb 15 20:11:58 someone knows how to retrieve a computer IP remotely if the router gets disconnected (I'd like to connect remotely with VNC to my laptop) Feb 15 20:12:26 embedded: dyndns.com Feb 15 20:13:12 wiretapped: thx, I'll try it Feb 15 20:13:42 nmap Feb 15 20:14:25 I wonder if the offering is good enough. will a newbie find qt-creator easy enough? Feb 15 20:15:54 Will MeeGo use .rpm or .deb as its packaging system? MeeGo will use the .rpm format Feb 15 20:15:59 okay Feb 15 20:16:01 thats it Feb 15 20:16:40 :( Feb 15 20:16:41 so its seems maemo6 is dead Feb 15 20:16:50 rpm Feb 15 20:16:51 rpms suck Feb 15 20:16:55 woglinde: who said that? Feb 15 20:17:04 Stskeeps: the meego faq says it Feb 15 20:17:12 woglinde: no, maemo6 Feb 15 20:17:29 but the moblin faq said "Our current build of Moblin v2.0 is made available in the LSB standard RPM packaging format. However, the packaging format does not really impact how the distribution operates. It's quite possible that we, or someone else, will create future builds using the DPKG format." Feb 15 20:17:47 * Trizt likes rpm Feb 15 20:17:51 stskeeps why should nokia pays for 2 platforms Feb 15 20:18:16 trizt any reasons? Feb 15 20:18:44 woglinde, bug 9067 for starters Feb 15 20:18:44 it has good check of dependency and simple to make working spec files Feb 15 20:18:44 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9067 Consider using RPM Package Manager instead of dpkg Feb 15 20:18:55 perhaps maemo security also? Feb 15 20:19:02 (dead) Feb 15 20:19:03 woglinde, any ARGUMENTS against rpm? Feb 15 20:19:31 wolf download kernel-src.rpm from moblin Feb 15 20:19:35 and try to build it Feb 15 20:20:00 woglinde, kernel packages are very distro specific Feb 15 20:20:24 * GeneralAntilles wonders what we should do with the council election. . . . Feb 15 20:21:03 woglinde, and don't judge rpm by some random distro that uses it Feb 15 20:21:12 hi, i have got problems when connecting my n900 to my computer, it always mounts as read only Feb 15 20:21:13 woglinde, judge it by a distribution that makes good use of it Feb 15 20:21:24 I'm trying to configure internet through usb im to the pont where I can ping external (internet) pc's from my n900 but can't resolve the hostnames, is there something i've missed? Feb 15 20:21:25 wolf which one is this? Feb 15 20:21:29 hi kathy Feb 15 20:21:39 Hi Feb 15 20:21:40 woglinde, read the bug, pld Feb 15 20:21:48 How is everyone tonight? Feb 15 20:21:56 even if explicitly told to mount as rw Feb 15 20:22:01 wolf the bug is a linux distro which uses rpm right? Feb 15 20:22:03 woglinde, read the references to rpm-devel list, read what rpm developers think about it Feb 15 20:22:22 General: Elect Rushmore, Orange, and the rest! Feb 15 20:22:37 LOL @ bug 9067 "There's no notion of 'upgrade' action in dpkg/apt" Feb 15 20:22:50 wiretapped???? Feb 15 20:22:51 lol Feb 15 20:22:53 wiretapped, enlighten me Feb 15 20:23:01 apt-get upgrade ? Feb 15 20:23:10 wiretapped, it upgrades ALL packages Feb 15 20:23:18 also, sometimes happens that after umounting it from the computer, it mounts in the tablet as readonly Feb 15 20:23:18 wiretapped, I want to upgrade a subset of packages Feb 15 20:23:29 wolf????? Feb 15 20:23:36 yeah, you do need to specify them then. Feb 15 20:23:40 RevdKathy, confused, feeling a bit betrayed. Feb 15 20:23:50 not something that is often needed, but easy enough to do Feb 15 20:24:01 wiretapped, I need it often Feb 15 20:24:02 I think a lot of people are feeling like that GeneralAntilles Feb 15 20:24:05 ga the others too? ero,x-fade? Feb 15 20:24:07 wiretapped, and dpkg makes it hard for me Feb 15 20:24:18 wolf^: if you need to do that often, you're doing it wrong Feb 15 20:24:23 well, it's a typical top-bottom management decision, isn't it? Feb 15 20:24:24 woglinde, haven't talked to X-Fade. Feb 15 20:24:31 I thought I'd see if the wake was in here - I feel like getting drunk Feb 15 20:24:33 communities are replacable, after all Feb 15 20:24:35 wolf^, why ? you can apt-get install Feb 15 20:24:35 wolf whats the command with rpm/yum? Feb 15 20:24:42 packages to upgrade a subselection Feb 15 20:24:52 I can only guess how it feels for people who've been around ages. I'm only a n00b Feb 15 20:24:56 wolf seems you aren that well with dpkg/apt-get as I with rpm/yum Feb 15 20:25:16 woglinde: tried zypper ? Feb 15 20:25:24 RevdKathy, it feels like I'd be feeling better if they hadn't picked such a terrible name and hadn't delivered the announcement like a steamrolling. Feb 15 20:25:27 dl9pf nope Feb 15 20:25:33 dl9pf another package manager? Feb 15 20:25:39 trbs, how can I upgrade libqt-{a,b,c,d} without upgrading libqt-{e,f,g,h}, assuming I have only the first set installed? Feb 15 20:25:43 try it Feb 15 20:25:45 Perhaps the Council should resign Feb 15 20:25:45 What is the entemology of the name meego? Feb 15 20:25:51 Even the council werent told, GA. Feb 15 20:25:56 woglinde, that's what I wrote in bug report Feb 15 20:25:57 wolf qt is real bad Feb 15 20:26:02 RevdKathy, most of Nokia wasn't told. Feb 15 20:26:06 it's an example Feb 15 20:26:08 * wiretapped raises his drink to RevdKathy Feb 15 20:26:09 fnordianslip, to what end? Feb 15 20:26:12 anyone? I can ping the nameserver but can't ping ie. google.com Feb 15 20:26:14 wolf^, if the packages are interconnected you can't, unless you force it ... which makes sens because it will break stuff horribly Feb 15 20:26:16 why the hell you will update libqt-gui and not libqt-svg Feb 15 20:26:25 As for the name, it embodies everything I hate about capitalist egocentricity and the opposite of what I understand OS to be Feb 15 20:26:28 that makes no sense Feb 15 20:26:33 GeneralAntilles: in protest about being excluded Feb 15 20:26:43 woglinde, it makes sense to me Feb 15 20:26:45 fnordianslip, well, I don't think anybody's been excluded. Feb 15 20:26:47 * wiretapped would love it if the whole council resigned Feb 15 20:26:58 fnordianslip, MeeGo is open for community development. Feb 15 20:26:59 wolf because the apps will not run because of different symbols? Feb 15 20:27:00 woglinde, I don't use libqt-svg, so why should I keep it on disk? Feb 15 20:27:02 fnordianslip, it's a clean slate. Feb 15 20:27:08 fnordianslip, well, except for the name and RPM, I guess. Feb 15 20:27:12 * SpeedEvil blames the soulless minions of orthodoxy. Feb 15 20:27:12 woglinde, if some app needs it, it will install it Feb 15 20:27:13 I don't think anyone was excluded - harder to lost who was included! Feb 15 20:27:16 Which are the two worst things about it. <_< Feb 15 20:27:16 GeneralAntilles: and what about maemo Feb 15 20:27:17 woglinde, but none does Feb 15 20:27:32 wolf so you are talking about deps Feb 15 20:27:46 woglinde, in a nutshell Feb 15 20:27:55 fnordianslip, it's something I have a lot of emotional attachment with and I'm really sad to see it replaced by something Fisher Price came up with. Feb 15 20:27:55 rpm-based distro have dep-hell as well Feb 15 20:27:58 General: At least it is not IISFMD Feb 15 20:28:08 woglinde, I need a small subset of all qt libraries, right? Feb 15 20:28:09 or some similar abbreviation Feb 15 20:28:16 wolf sure Feb 15 20:28:17 woglinde, how do I upgrade just that small subset? Feb 15 20:28:28 * Trizt feels there is a flamewar in the air, just over a package management, why not use ebuilds instead? Feb 15 20:28:29 which it could well become Feb 15 20:28:31 apt-get upgrade -u Feb 15 20:28:35 Hello? Feb 15 20:28:39 to see what is getting upgraded Feb 15 20:28:39 woglinde, qt 4.6 is in extras-devel, I don't want to upgrade anything other than qt from there Feb 15 20:28:50 *sigh* Feb 15 20:29:03 wolf you are confused Feb 15 20:29:10 no, I'm not Feb 15 20:29:16 I know exactly what I want to do Feb 15 20:29:20 dpkg makes it hard to do Feb 15 20:29:26 than make your own qt packages Feb 15 20:29:30 that isnt hard Feb 15 20:29:32 woglinde, why? Feb 15 20:29:36 apt-get install package will install the latest Feb 15 20:29:36 they are in repo already? Feb 15 20:29:42 You've been with maemo from the beginning, GeneralAntilles - I would imagine you feel like youve been mugged Feb 15 20:29:42 I want just them, nothing else Feb 15 20:29:50 *sigh* Feb 15 20:29:55 Something like that. Feb 15 20:29:58 mental ignore Feb 15 20:30:11 GeneralAntilles, my condolences Feb 15 20:30:15 woglinde, yeah, keep living in your special world Feb 15 20:30:18 woglinde: even I am on your side, I have to say that your argument is leaking. wolf has a point there Feb 15 20:30:44 * RST38h weeps silently in the perpetual mourning for the fate of Maemo Feb 15 20:30:49 scelt if he needs something special he have to do this on its own Feb 15 20:30:50 R. I. P. Feb 15 20:31:01 GeneralAntilles: Don't get me wrong, I don't think the transition is a bad idea, I just think that that the community should have been better prepared. It's not the council's fault, but I still think that they should resign, in protest against being excluded from Nokias plans. Feb 15 20:31:04 Terrible, terrible, a perpetual RIP no less Feb 15 20:31:10 so it does not happen to any of you? Feb 15 20:31:25 and I bet on fedora and opensuse you have the same deps on qt stuff Feb 15 20:31:26 fnordianslip: And what does resigning do? Feb 15 20:31:31 fnordianslip, seems pointless. There's no way Nokia or Intel would've included them with that many lawyers involved. Feb 15 20:31:45 woglinde, I don't need anything special. I don't need full upgrade. I just need to upgrade two or three libqt packages that I use and have installed. I don't need to install rest of qt libraries, or any other upgrades Feb 15 20:31:54 woglinde, it's not about dependencies Feb 15 20:32:09 wolf did you try apt-get install package? Feb 15 20:32:12 it pulls the latest here. Feb 15 20:32:19 yes, even if it's already installed. Feb 15 20:32:23 javispedro, yes, with mixed results Feb 15 20:32:34 woglinde: I think the point is that if I can't update the packages without the possibility of installing new ones. "apt-get install pkg pkg2" will update them if installed but install if not found. "apt-get update pkg pkg2" could only update them when installed but not install in any case Feb 15 20:32:39 Will there even be a council in the Brave New World? Moblin doesn't have one. Will Meego need one? Feb 15 20:32:49 wolf^: since I believe you're talking about the bugreport 9067 "feature", he means the rpm -Uvh feature, where it will upgrade from a set of on-disk .rpm files. Feb 15 20:32:51 javispedro, installing libqt-*-core seems to pull the rest of libqt Feb 15 20:32:57 RevdKathy, that's up to us to decide, I guess. Feb 15 20:33:07 wolf^: that feature is not in debian's dpkg indeed (rpm -Uvh) Feb 15 20:33:11 GeneralAntilles: perhaps, you are right. It just feels wrong for something like this to happen out of the blue. Feb 15 20:33:13 it's time for open-source to start hacking open hardware i guess Feb 15 20:33:24 not entirely - who are the moblin people we should be talking to? They dont seem to exist Feb 15 20:33:26 javispedro, -Uhv installs/upgrades from disk, -Fhv upgrades only that what is already installed Feb 15 20:33:40 keesj: happened before, did not work Feb 15 20:33:40 they are NOT a user or enthusiast community Feb 15 20:33:41 fnordianslip, I agree entirely, but such are the realities when you're dealing with big companies making agreements like this. Feb 15 20:33:47 At least we might get a better email client :) Feb 15 20:33:49 RevdKathy, they aren't. Feb 15 20:33:51 javispedro, yes Feb 15 20:33:55 and why have a council if there's no purpose? Feb 15 20:33:59 * LuciusMare wonders if anyone in this channel listens to him Feb 15 20:34:01 RevdKathy, Moblin and MeeGo are VERY technical. Feb 15 20:34:04 RevdKathy: "The Moblin people" work one floor above me. Feb 15 20:34:08 RevdKathy, Moblin is about at the 770 stage. Feb 15 20:34:16 * RST38h cackles Feb 15 20:34:25 wolf^: can aptitude solve that problem? only update installed packages? Feb 15 20:34:32 RevdKathy, MeeGo is basically composed of a bunch of Intel and Nokia employees Feb 15 20:34:34 I tried Moblin on my eee. Swifty replaced with #! Feb 15 20:34:36 so there will be no place for bears in Meego - it will swing back to dev and professionals Feb 15 20:34:38 General: Well, I would beg to differ... Feb 15 20:34:38 Scelt, I don't know. maybe Feb 15 20:34:38 RevdKathy, and a bunch of very confused Maemo people. Feb 15 20:34:39 *sigh* Feb 15 20:34:45 hi LuciusMare :) Feb 15 20:34:46 RST38h: how big is the Moblin development team at Intel ? Feb 15 20:34:49 it is dependency stuff Feb 15 20:34:58 RevdKathy, well, I think it's up to us to make that place. Feb 15 20:35:01 pinchartl: there are multiple teams in different divisions Feb 15 20:35:12 Guess I was just lucky to enjoy maemo at its height before it vanished Feb 15 20:35:26 RST38h: and how many developers would that be if you put them all together ? Feb 15 20:35:31 wolf when the new version qtlibs as other deps so guess what is installed with an upgrade Feb 15 20:35:36 woglinde: no it's not :) it's just about the thing that install-command will install the packages stated so it can't be used for updating without the risk of installing new packages. Feb 15 20:35:40 it think this is a setback. it's going to take MeeGo 6 months to come up with the same stuff that already exists on maemo5. from the consumer perspective nothing has changed Feb 15 20:35:46 scelt *sigh* Feb 15 20:35:57 pinchartl: probably form a few dozen to a couple of hundred Feb 15 20:36:08 if one qtversion you have installed has deps on lib1 and lib2 Feb 15 20:36:17 pinchartl: sorry for not having the exact numbers, but even if I did, I would not be able to tell Feb 15 20:36:25 and now the same lib has deps lib1 lib2 lib3 Feb 15 20:36:31 RST38h: damn :-) Feb 15 20:36:33 lib3 will be installed Feb 15 20:36:39 is that to hard to understand? Feb 15 20:36:42 woglinde: forgot the qt libs. it has nothing to do with them Feb 15 20:36:46 would be the same on rpm Feb 15 20:36:49 *sigh* Feb 15 20:36:57 wolf^: again i say you're doing it wrong if you regularly need to do that. but if you do, it is trivial to apt-get ugprade -u and see what of everything would be upgraded and then apt-get install the subset of packages you want to upgrade Feb 15 20:36:58 you're not really getting it, pal Feb 15 20:37:06 woglinde, that's how it should be working (and is) Feb 15 20:37:08 no you are dont get it Feb 15 20:37:28 wiretapped excatly Feb 15 20:37:34 woglinde, the problem is about something else, but let's leave it, shall we? Feb 15 20:37:37 and when the new versions has other deps Feb 15 20:37:45 the other deps will be installed Feb 15 20:37:47 * alterego tries to familiarise himself with Qt. Feb 15 20:38:05 :-D Feb 15 20:38:14 alterego it's really fun to programm it Feb 15 20:38:17 forgot the qt, forgot the debs Feb 15 20:38:22 deps Feb 15 20:38:28 alterego especially with creator Feb 15 20:38:45 scelt okay explain me the problem Feb 15 20:38:49 maybee I am really to old Feb 15 20:38:54 to understand it Feb 15 20:39:25 wiretapped, what I really want is a combination of upgrade that accepts install parameters Feb 15 20:39:25 woglinde: I wanna update packages one, two and three but only update them and not install if they don't exist. "apt-get install one two three" will install missing packages and update existing ones Feb 15 20:39:39 scelt right Feb 15 20:39:48 http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/02/nokia_and_intel_announce_meego.html Feb 15 20:39:51 Huh? Feb 15 20:40:08 LuciusMare: A slow learner, ain't you? :) Feb 15 20:40:11 woglinde: but I only want to update the existing packages so what I should replace the install-command with? Feb 15 20:40:12 wiretapped, so i can do "apt-get upgrade libqt-*" and don't worry that something other that I have installed (and what is not in dependencies) will be installed Feb 15 20:40:21 scelt apt-get upgrade -u will show whats going to upgrade Feb 15 20:40:33 wolf apt-get install libqt-* Feb 15 20:40:42 hm ah Feb 15 20:40:45 okay Feb 15 20:40:48 you got it now? :) Feb 15 20:40:58 woglinde, it will install all libqt-* libraries, I want apt-get to filter it to the subset I have already installed Feb 15 20:40:58 apt-get upgrade -u Feb 15 20:41:04 (minus the deps of course) Feb 15 20:41:26 woglinde: will "apt-get upgrade -u one two three" update only packages found and install nothing new? Feb 15 20:41:46 scelt upgrade -u is showing you what will be updated Feb 15 20:41:54 you than can cut and paste it Feb 15 20:42:06 woglinde: so no way just to update what I want without copypasting Feb 15 20:42:25 Scelt: is this a feature you've needed more than once or twice? Feb 15 20:42:25 Scelt; write a small script that does it for you Feb 15 20:42:51 Why don't you want to upgrade the rest of your packages? Feb 15 20:42:54 wiretapped, I need it every time I want to upgrade qt 4.6 from extras-devel Feb 15 20:42:58 wiretapped and Trizt: I am not needing it. wolf asked for it and the thing here is that we've been talknig about different things Feb 15 20:43:09 wolf why? Feb 15 20:43:11 wiretapped, because upgrading to extras-devel is bad ;p Feb 15 20:43:11 * DocScrutinizer suggests $( ) Feb 15 20:43:22 wlof learn about pinning Feb 15 20:43:26 ups pinning Feb 15 20:43:33 wolf^: you should be able to apt-get install a single thing that depends on all the stuff you want to upgrade Feb 15 20:43:35 wiretapped: well, if you want few packages from unstable repo you may not want to update everything and fuck up the whole system Feb 15 20:43:46 you can pin that qt only should be updated from extras Feb 15 20:43:51 not the other stuff Feb 15 20:43:58 mom Feb 15 20:44:01 wiretapped, that's how it seems to work, at least recently, I had some problems with it earlier Feb 15 20:44:31 http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html Feb 15 20:44:35 there it is Feb 15 20:44:37 have fun Feb 15 20:44:47 didnt see rpm has this feature Feb 15 20:45:15 if wanting some things from unstable and keep rest stable, then it would better to use portage, as you can select which packages to be from unstable, but I doubt anyone here would want to use portage. Feb 15 20:45:16 hi, i have got problems when connecting my n900 to my computer, it always mounts as read only, and cant be mounted any other way Feb 15 20:45:25 hm okay Feb 15 20:45:30 that was only for repos Feb 15 20:45:37 but there is pinning for packages too Feb 15 20:45:43 wolf^: you can also use pinning to make a repo not upgrade everything Feb 15 20:45:44 woglinde, it's apt-get feature, rpm would be a equivalent of dpkg Feb 15 20:46:00 wolf^: the way they do at http://www.backports.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=instructions Feb 15 20:46:21 maemo should edit the Release file for extras-devel to make it do that by default Feb 15 20:46:34 but you can do it yourself in your apt preferences Feb 15 20:46:41 LuciusMare; your file system read/write? I had some troubles yesterday when it went just read, mouting at that stage had mede it also read only on my desktop Feb 15 20:46:52 Trizt, some do want :) Feb 15 20:47:02 slonopotamus; :) Feb 15 20:47:17 Trizt: not sure how you do mean it, i think it is mounted as a readwrite in the tablet Feb 15 20:47:21 lemme try Feb 15 20:47:43 LuciusMare; on your N900, can you write to the vfat file system? Feb 15 20:48:09 open terminal and do a "touch ~/MyDocs/test" Feb 15 20:48:34 hm hm Feb 15 20:48:38 wiretapped, there's a saying, that the socialism is a political system bravely fighting with problems nonexistant in other political systems Feb 15 20:48:45 yes Feb 15 20:48:46 wiretapped, seems strangely applicable to this pinning Feb 15 20:48:55 hm no Feb 15 20:49:00 pinnig dont help here Feb 15 20:49:17 wiretapped, really, I do know what I want to do, I'm comfortable with temporarily enabling extras-devel and getting one or two packages that I want Feb 15 20:49:18 ah, tmo, where poor disoriented maemo users are comforting each other with the list of things they will bring to moblin... Feb 15 20:49:30 wiretapped, any other work is just too much for me Feb 15 20:50:39 LuciusMare; then I'm not sure, is it your desktop environment which mounts it with help of dbus or kernel automount or you do it manually? Feb 15 20:50:41 How do I retrieve contact info from osso abook? I want to find contact using his number then get his/her name for example Feb 15 20:50:53 mount manually Feb 15 20:51:34 reason number 42 to install ssh on tablet: using mplayer foo.mp3 to locate the device Feb 15 20:51:45 pupnik_: my soulmate! Feb 15 20:51:55 LuciusMare; anything in your dmesg that tells you something? Feb 15 20:51:56 ehheh Feb 15 20:52:08 wolf^: so, it sounds to me like apt actually has a better way to do exactly what you want... which would let you just "apt-get upgrade" Feb 15 20:52:15 Trizt: nope, standard "device connected" messages Feb 15 20:52:21 okey Feb 15 20:52:24 but you can't be bothered to put four lines in a text file Feb 15 20:52:37 correct? Feb 15 20:52:39 * slonopotamus failed to understand pinning. it's just overcomplicated Feb 15 20:53:05 wiretapped, no, not really, let's say I feel adventureous and I wan't to upgrade something from extras-devel Feb 15 20:53:18 wiretapped, then I need to remove these four lines, then put them again... Feb 15 20:53:26 so much unneeded work Feb 15 20:53:35 no, you just add the thing you want to upgrade to the list of packages you want Feb 15 20:54:01 wolf^: in rpm land, where you can upgrade a wildcarded set of packages... Feb 15 20:54:04 anyone else reminded of the OS/2 collaboration? :-D Feb 15 20:54:05 how do you upgrade everything? Feb 15 20:54:13 disable the unwanted repo? Feb 15 20:54:28 seems like more work Feb 15 20:54:29 wiretapped, in poldek (apt-get equivalent) Feb 15 20:54:34 is /etc/fstab wiped out on device reboot? Feb 15 20:54:40 etamme yes Feb 15 20:54:41 the apt way, you can keep your pacakges up to date from mutliple repos Feb 15 20:54:43 hrm Feb 15 20:54:49 wiretapped, upgrade libqt-*; upgrade */--dist-upgrade Feb 15 20:54:51 any way to get permanant changes to it ? Feb 15 20:54:51 LuciusMare; no odd udev rules that you have added? Thats the last thing I can think of Feb 15 20:55:03 AFAIK,nope Feb 15 20:55:12 wiretapped, and there are some configuration files with repo configuration Feb 15 20:55:18 what does "*/--dist-upgrade" mean? Feb 15 20:56:08 wiretapped, nothing, that's two ways to do something; you can either enable interactive mode and enter "upgrade *" or use the "--dist-upgrade" parameter Feb 15 20:57:06 wiretapped, there's no easy way to say "I want that package from that repo, but only that package" in poldek, but then again, what's the use for it? ;> Feb 15 20:58:29 wolf^: i thought that was the exact functionality that were were complaining apt didn't have, but which it actually does Feb 15 20:58:41 nobody, really? Feb 15 20:59:39 wiretapped, as I said, I'm comfortable with temporarily enablind some repository and manually specifying what I want to upgrade Feb 15 21:00:17 dude Feb 15 21:00:20 http://wireless.ign.com/articles/106/1069286p1.html Feb 15 21:00:21 just not in a text file, where you could get upgrades without having to specify it again later Feb 15 21:00:50 wiretapped, no, I don't think so (I'm not sure) Feb 15 21:00:55 in that way truly apt is better Feb 15 21:01:01 i know most dont care but man im jealous. i dont want to pick up my iphone again for anything other than to set my alarm clock alarm Feb 15 21:01:25 wiretapped, what about the rest of that bug? Feb 15 21:01:41 my head exploded when i read apt didn't do upgrades :) Feb 15 21:01:44 wohoo, I registered on meego before someone else took 'jk Feb 15 21:01:45 ' Feb 15 21:02:29 wiretapped, please read the rest, I'm eager to be proved wrong Feb 15 21:02:44 wolf^: #2 and #3 are irritating, but things that people who muck with nonstandard packages rapidly figure out how to deal with... Feb 15 21:03:06 I've had to manually edit failing control scripts more than once Feb 15 21:03:27 wiretapped, um, these are stored somewhere on filesystem? Feb 15 21:03:35 finally a bit of reassurance from nokia ... http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/this-is-next-step-step-forward.html Feb 15 21:03:36 /var/lib/dpkg/info Feb 15 21:03:41 wiretapped, rpm holds them in berkeley db, so they're not user-editable Feb 15 21:03:59 wolf^: yeah that is one of the things I really like about apt over rpm - text files for everything Feb 15 21:04:53 hello all. quick question - is it possible to change the default shell of user on my n999? bash is installed and passwd defines it as bash, but it will not source my bashrc when starting xterm. Feb 15 21:05:04 i wrote an application that allows user to use shift+arrow keys to swap between application windows (like alt+tab works in windows) Feb 15 21:05:07 anyone interested? Feb 15 21:05:07 n999 = n900 Feb 15 21:05:09 boseefus: you have an n999?!?! Feb 15 21:05:17 re Feb 15 21:05:39 damnit. still getting used to this tiny keyboard. Feb 15 21:05:41 boseefus: I actually just edited my passwd file the other day, and my xterm has bash now Feb 15 21:05:48 don't know why it wouldn't work... Feb 15 21:05:54 well. Feb 15 21:06:04 does it source your bashrc? Feb 15 21:06:21 I have to do that manually. Feb 15 21:06:29 I haven't put a bashrc on it yet Feb 15 21:07:01 hrmm. Feb 15 21:07:55 wiretapped: any way I can tell a difference between that and ash? Feb 15 21:08:20 hmm, quite depressing seeing the level of maths ability of primary school teachers Feb 15 21:08:21 boseefus, you can use the 'chsh' command to change your default shell i believe Feb 15 21:08:28 $SHELL returns bash Feb 15 21:08:44 lardman, hey, as long as it's higher than the kids. :P Feb 15 21:09:14 GeneralAntilles: marginal it seems Feb 15 21:09:22 Hehe Feb 15 21:09:27 ok i got an icon to start xterm in a new window by copying the irssi.desktop to pupterm.desktop and changing the name and removing 'irssi' from the invocation Feb 15 21:10:00 I used chsh as well. still doesn't aource my .bashrc. -.- Feb 15 21:10:08 boseefus: my bash says bash in the prompt Feb 15 21:10:15 source* Feb 15 21:10:35 boseefus: did you try a .profile instead? Feb 15 21:11:01 * wiretapped once learned how to make bash do the right thing here, but then forogt Feb 15 21:11:14 hi folks, are there any bugs known that cause the app. manager to failt its operation and the media player to no longer open up the internet radio thingy? :/ Feb 15 21:11:15 wiretapped: no, I haven't. is that part of xterm? Feb 15 21:12:16 boseefus: no, it is one of the things bash looks for Feb 15 21:12:20 man bash Feb 15 21:12:42 check the INVOCATION section of the manpage Feb 15 21:13:31 yikes, never heard of that. I have run bash from the prompt and it would source my .bashrc just fine from there. maybe even .bash_profile, but I know it does for bashrc Feb 15 21:13:57 boseefus: yeah .profile should work... bash only runs the bashrc if it is an "interactive shell that is not a login shell" Feb 15 21:14:24 Jaffa: for next glass of wine: penguinbait is starting the "fork the forum" discussion again Feb 15 21:14:27 :P Feb 15 21:15:28 wiretapped: let me try that. Feb 15 21:16:57 I wonder if meego will have one repository per device, with things like optification in one but not the other, etc :P Feb 15 21:17:09 ShadowJK: OBS based Feb 15 21:17:15 or if add on apps will be in /usr/local/ all the time or, you know, something sensible? Feb 15 21:17:24 Well what does that mean? Feb 15 21:17:32 means we can pretty much do wtf we want Feb 15 21:17:33 :P Feb 15 21:17:57 Does that imply some sort of fragmentation-hell... Feb 15 21:21:14 damn Feb 15 21:21:19 just read about meego Feb 15 21:21:22 yet another change on maemo? Feb 15 21:21:38 we need stability, not this kind of turbulence. Feb 15 21:21:58 now I need to use qt creator for my programs? lame. Feb 15 21:22:23 ptl, i think nokia could have done a much better job with the announcement. it was very disruptive and they gave little info. Feb 15 21:22:29 ptl, but i have no problem with moving to qt Feb 15 21:22:35 or anything like that Feb 15 21:22:40 this is the captain speaking: we are having some turbulence, please change to windows mobile Feb 15 21:22:49 hehe Feb 15 21:22:55 more like jump ship to android Feb 15 21:23:19 samsung Badaaaa Feb 15 21:24:40 is there a vector-based drawing program for n900? Feb 15 21:25:07 Ceron^: Windows 7 mobile you mean? ;) Feb 15 21:26:14 sure why not Feb 15 21:28:35 :S Feb 15 21:28:41 fuck meego - they're ditching debian Feb 15 21:28:48 ;/ Feb 15 21:29:59 are they? Feb 15 21:30:13 hi lardman Feb 15 21:30:15 yes Feb 15 21:30:24 meego is going rpm Feb 15 21:30:27 sad day Feb 15 21:30:29 such bullshit Feb 15 21:30:31 Stskeeps: Indeed, I'm trying to ignore that. Good luck to 'im Feb 15 21:32:02 hi woglinde Feb 15 21:37:26 can you explain what is so bad about rpm ? Feb 15 21:37:30 @ spectre- Feb 15 21:37:53 it's not about rpm vs deb Feb 15 21:37:55 if nothing else I'd guess it's a complete reversal of a lot of work done with debs Feb 15 21:37:55 so, without hildon or debian, what is maemo bringing to meego? The maemo6 qt stuff and, "community"? Feb 15 21:38:01 any other software? Feb 15 21:38:11 so much as it is about maemo ditching it's debian heritage Feb 15 21:38:16 and also Feb 15 21:38:21 apt is an amazing tool Feb 15 21:38:36 wiretapped, lots of the technologies, I guess. Feb 15 21:38:37 RST38h: there? Feb 15 21:38:42 wiretapped, BlueZ, Telepathy, etc. Feb 15 21:38:53 wiretapped, Nokia has a rather significant investment in all of them. Feb 15 21:38:55 feels like intel just needed to pee in the soup a bit. different name, different upstream Feb 15 21:39:02 The browser seems likely. Feb 15 21:39:09 so lame Feb 15 21:39:13 intel wants atom powered phones :P Feb 15 21:39:16 maemo was my dream os Feb 15 21:39:20 meego is tainted Feb 15 21:39:57 maybe intel's marketing is the deciding factor. what speaks *for* meego? Feb 15 21:40:00 what a boring dream! Feb 15 21:40:02 <.< Feb 15 21:40:30 yea. atom phones would need too much juice Feb 15 21:40:38 jk Feb 15 21:41:51 is maemo open enough that we could just fork it away from nokia? Feb 15 21:41:57 well, has the mameo/community-council any voice about rpm vs apt decision? if they really cry out loud? Feb 15 21:42:12 cehteh no Feb 15 21:42:28 i mean this merger isnt entirely bad, but there should be some effort to get the best out of it for everyone Feb 15 21:42:33 fooook! Feb 15 21:42:44 how to determine endianess of linux ARM binary? Feb 15 21:42:47 There's an awful lot of Intel on the infra and technical side and VERY little Maemo. Feb 15 21:42:48 raped by nokia yet again Feb 15 21:42:55 jacekowski objdump Feb 15 21:43:05 i don't have objdump on N900 Feb 15 21:43:07 i will never buy another nokia device Feb 15 21:43:15 this was the final rape Feb 15 21:43:19 KamuiN900: go away then Feb 15 21:43:27 KamuiN900: and be raped by apple Feb 15 21:43:33 hehe .. prolly because i buyed it Feb 15 21:43:35 jacekowski install it Feb 15 21:43:45 when i buyed a apple newton, apple canceled it Feb 15 21:44:01 bought* Feb 15 21:44:07 woglinde: E: Couldn't find package objdump Feb 15 21:44:08 just tell me what i shall buy next... windows7? ... Feb 15 21:44:11 cehteh: be sure to give us all lists on what you buy >.> Feb 15 21:44:12 :) Feb 15 21:44:14 jacekowski: ill speak my mind where and when i want. keep your winey censorship to yourself Feb 15 21:44:29 cehteh: buy an ipad :p Feb 15 21:44:30 So wait, since this IBM thing, maemo is going rpm? Feb 15 21:44:38 Is that true?? That makes me a sad panda. Feb 15 21:44:43 KamuiN900: so far you are just moaning about beeing raped Feb 15 21:44:48 jacekowski, tried using file? Feb 15 21:44:50 KamuiN900: without any facts Feb 15 21:44:54 i cant be mad that i liked maemo and am pissed at the new direction Feb 15 21:45:13 ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (ARM), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped Feb 15 21:45:23 nah, it doesn't say what endianess is it Feb 15 21:45:37 KamuiN900: moblin and maemo already have a lot in common .. rpm might be a bit pita, but maybe the community hacks apt in.. Feb 15 21:45:46 LSB doesn't mean least-significiant-bit first? Feb 15 21:45:57 yes meego will be rpm Feb 15 21:46:03 such a stupid move Feb 15 21:46:12 hey .. lets go nix :P Feb 15 21:46:21 maemo is little endian? Feb 15 21:46:33 http://nixos.org/nixos/ Feb 15 21:47:01 Ohhhoho Feb 15 21:47:10 Well, I think this explains the shift in the Maemo 6 support on N900 over the past two months. Feb 15 21:47:25 shift? Feb 15 21:47:26 GeneralAntilles: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44611 Feb 15 21:47:35 seriously what the hell is wrong with nokia Feb 15 21:47:48 i can't believe they'd ditch apt Feb 15 21:47:55 Me neither. Feb 15 21:48:02 That's the most nonsensical thing I've heard /all day/. Feb 15 21:48:06 ShadowJK, at BCN it was pretty much "No multitouch, no support", but things kind of went the other way after that. Feb 15 21:48:06 i sell this phone to fellow techies by saying 'it uses apt' Feb 15 21:48:12 ShadowJK, I think MeeGo explains that well. Feb 15 21:48:13 ty cehteh - interesting stuff Feb 15 21:48:20 ShadowJK, since you can rely on multi. Feb 15 21:48:24 spectre-: Why should they ditch apt? Feb 15 21:48:35 if i move away from debian then to nix .. thats awesome Feb 15 21:48:45 range Feb 15 21:48:51 but i suspect it wont work well with small devices Feb 15 21:48:53 no idea Feb 15 21:48:56 but they are Feb 15 21:49:01 going to go rpm Feb 15 21:49:01 spectre-: Who said that? Feb 15 21:49:10 Does someone have a link confirming this apt thing? Feb 15 21:49:24 topic in #meego and comments on slashdot Feb 15 21:49:27 lemme dig Feb 15 21:49:28 faq@meego Feb 15 21:49:37 ScribbleJ faq on meego.com side Feb 15 21:49:46 spectre-: That's comparing apples and oranges. I can use apt on rpm systems just fine. Feb 15 21:50:14 my bigger concern is ditching the debian heritage Feb 15 21:50:22 debian 4? :P Feb 15 21:50:23 and system Feb 15 21:50:32 i suppose it could be worse. they could release a new maemo device this year, discontinuing support for the n900 Feb 15 21:50:39 jacekowski, http://aaronshang.blogspot.com/2009/02/elf-file-data-encoding-not-little.html Feb 15 21:50:43 jacekowski, lsb is little endian Feb 15 21:50:44 http://meego.com/about/faq Feb 15 21:50:54 you can't discontinue an open-source product :p Feb 15 21:51:09 There it is, it says RPM, not DEB. And it says it's not going to be based on Fedora or Debian at all, it's from scratch. Feb 15 21:51:15 well .. we all here like deb more than rpm .. but hornestly does it make such a big difference, its just the package management ... what matters more is that there is a reasonable (or even better completely) free gnu/linux platform under the hood Feb 15 21:51:17 Those seem like ridiculous decisions. Feb 15 21:51:19 WHAT Feb 15 21:51:22 KamuiN900, honestly, MeeGo makes it much more likely that we'll see Maemo5+1 on the N900. Feb 15 21:51:26 FROM SCRATCH????? Feb 15 21:51:30 sure you can. community sjpported projects only live as long as their interest Feb 15 21:51:31 RST38h: got my ping? Feb 15 21:51:32 WTF Feb 15 21:51:40 "No. Meego is its own independent distribution, run as an open source project." Feb 15 21:51:40 sigh Feb 15 21:51:41 cehteh, no, "we" don't Feb 15 21:51:57 That all seems like ridiculousness. Who makes these decisions?! Feb 15 21:52:04 someone hug me please, i feel so cold suddenly Feb 15 21:52:07 ScribbleJ intel Feb 15 21:52:09 I don't like deb. I'm all for the move to rpm. Feb 15 21:52:16 linux foundation Feb 15 21:52:22 a complete rewrite?? Feb 15 21:52:22 rpm blows Feb 15 21:52:26 seriously?? Feb 15 21:52:30 There must be people AT Intel, specific people who I can hate specifically. Feb 15 21:52:37 ditching debian to go custom??? Feb 15 21:52:49 oh well Feb 15 21:52:50 ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped Feb 15 21:52:51 damnit all. I'm going to bed. G'night all. Feb 15 21:52:55 ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (ARM), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped Feb 15 21:53:00 jesus christ someone's lost their mind at nokia/intel Feb 15 21:53:04 night RevdKathy Feb 15 21:53:05 spectre-, well it's not really 'custom' as i understand it it's fedora Feb 15 21:53:07 looks like ttn is not going to work after all Feb 15 21:54:08 more or less similar to how maemo is debian derived, meego will be fedora derived Feb 15 21:54:16 oh Feb 15 21:54:20 i don't get WHY Feb 15 21:54:20 that would be bad and ugly Feb 15 21:54:33 what the hell is wrong with debian Feb 15 21:54:34 I wonder how many SD interfaces omap3 has... Feb 15 21:54:36 fedora is worst distro i've ever seen Feb 15 21:54:37 spectre moblin was first ubuntu based Feb 15 21:54:38 ShadowJK: 3 Feb 15 21:54:41 hehe me neither (or your talking about the OS) Feb 15 21:54:43 ShadowJK: or 4 Feb 15 21:54:45 ahh Feb 15 21:54:46 will it be really fedora or rather evolve in something on its own .. Feb 15 21:54:51 s/or/if/ Feb 15 21:54:52 trbs2 meant: hehe me neither (if your talking about the OS) Feb 15 21:54:53 beh, rpm Feb 15 21:54:57 rpm is bad Feb 15 21:54:58 jacekowski, hm.. one for wlan leaves 2.. I have a feeling we wont see microsd on next device :) Feb 15 21:54:59 and evel Feb 15 21:55:05 than they dichted it Feb 15 21:55:05 to use rpm Feb 15 21:55:15 ShadowJK: i dont' think that wlan is connected to sd Feb 15 21:55:19 night guys Feb 15 21:55:24 such crap :/ Feb 15 21:55:32 we need a petition Feb 15 21:55:35 rpm was broken badly up to about 2000. which is about when i gave up on it Feb 15 21:55:41 let me find something Feb 15 21:55:42 heh yea Feb 15 21:55:58 cehteh, i'm guessing that moblin does the same as other distro's do, where if they go to far from the source they end of hurting themselfs..... because you cannot use upstream versions anymore... Feb 15 21:56:12 spectre-: how about a coherent post explaining your objections Feb 15 21:56:37 http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3530.pdf Feb 15 21:56:43 spectre-: a "petition"? Feb 15 21:56:45 that's datasheet for it Feb 15 21:56:51 ShadowJK: Feb 15 21:57:03 i'd like to see moves that help ensure that maemo or foss successors are successful. Feb 15 21:57:07 pupnik, but why, isn't "rpm sucks!" enough? :> Feb 15 21:57:38 rpm is old and obsolete Feb 15 21:57:40 as for foss successors, I think meego will make it easy for the "community" to build their own OSen Feb 15 21:57:40 and PITA to use Feb 15 21:57:52 how is it for package-building jacekowski Feb 15 21:57:58 jacekowski, dpkg is old and obsolete and PITA to use Feb 15 21:58:26 pupnik_: it's much simpler to build .deb Feb 15 21:58:34 rotfl Feb 15 21:58:39 well the entire discussion is a bit of a mute, since the decision is made already Feb 15 21:59:09 perhaps there are superior solutions (cehteh's nix link) Feb 15 21:59:25 o Feb 15 21:59:26 ShadowJK: 3 MMC/SD interfaces Feb 15 21:59:29 I'm hoping (without good reason?) that Nokia will at least opensource all the maemo parts that are now closed (ofcourse the parts that they have ownership too) Feb 15 21:59:45 otoh it would have been nice to see maemo move more upstream to debian proper Feb 15 21:59:47 so that Mer and others can you them if they want to continue with something similar to the existing platform Feb 15 21:59:47 pupnik_: i am following nixos since 1 or 2 years people use it productively, i just didnt managed to do the switch yet Feb 15 21:59:57 s/you/use/ Feb 15 21:59:58 trbs2 meant: so that Mer and others can use them if they want to continue with something similar to the existing platform Feb 15 22:00:01 jacekowski, I think 1 will needed for OS, 1 for mass storage of user files, leaving none free for memory card Feb 15 22:00:09 cehteh: ability to do rollbacks seems very useful Feb 15 22:00:10 trbs2: i'm setting up open sourcing queue tomorrow, feel free to start pumping. Feb 15 22:00:12 If nokia wants to have / on big drive Feb 15 22:00:16 in the future Feb 15 22:00:22 if you look at nix, deb will look like old dust too :P Feb 15 22:00:24 ShadowJK: that can be shared Feb 15 22:00:40 ShadowJK: OS and storage on same memory Feb 15 22:00:42 pupnik: but as i saied i dont know how well it works on small devices Feb 15 22:00:46 jacekowski, hell no Feb 15 22:00:50 there is some bloat involved Feb 15 22:00:52 ShadowJK: partitioned Feb 15 22:01:09 Stskeeps, how exactly do you mean ? putting a list together of things we would like to be opensourced ? Feb 15 22:01:17 jacekowski, that's fucking slow, just try have gpodder download something on your N900 and you'll discover Feb 15 22:01:25 cehteh: do you find that installing packages with HAM is too slow? I despise spending 7 minutes with an unusable device because 3 packages got updated Feb 15 22:01:31 ShadowJK: what's slow? Feb 15 22:01:45 trbs2: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44127 Feb 15 22:01:47 ShadowJK: it's just memory that's slow Feb 15 22:01:47 pupnik_, it's slow Feb 15 22:01:54 Stskeeps, *click* :) Feb 15 22:01:57 pupnik: yeah could be better Feb 15 22:02:07 jacekowski, dude it's MMC, it can't be made not slow... Feb 15 22:02:09 ShadowJK: if you would use really fast memory for system+storage and parition it Feb 15 22:02:12 Atleast not while keeping vfat Feb 15 22:02:13 ShadowJK: it can Feb 15 22:02:27 Well nobody makes it in non-slow versions today Feb 15 22:02:34 but ending up with 5 variants of the libc in ram just because one didnt carefuly setup the nix stuff would be devasting for a 256MB device Feb 15 22:02:44 ShadowJK: interface can handle 20MB/s Feb 15 22:03:22 does RPM have to rescan the whole DB with every update like apt-worker does? Feb 15 22:03:34 pupnik_: there is no database Feb 15 22:03:41 But the underlying storage still does a 256-kilobyte read-modify-write cycle for the 4K writes that the OS sends it Feb 15 22:03:53 pupnik_: there is no dependencies as such Feb 15 22:04:04 pupnik_: i mean no dependencies solving Feb 15 22:04:17 jacekowski, wow! just like dpkg! Feb 15 22:04:27 oh you just hope things work together jacekowski ? Feb 15 22:04:27 rpm is like dpkg, rpm is not like apt Feb 15 22:04:40 dpkg has no dependencies resolving Feb 15 22:04:44 ok, i forgot all redhat stuff Feb 15 22:04:53 ShadowJK: i was planing to leave him with feeling that .deb is superior Feb 15 22:05:24 pupnik_, you can't install rpm if dependencies are not met (you can install deb with unmet dependencies) Feb 15 22:05:30 No, but apt is like apt and why shouldn't you be able to use that on rpm? Feb 15 22:05:34 wolf^: you can't Feb 15 22:05:36 pupnik_, you have tools, like apt-get, to get the deps for you Feb 15 22:05:40 jacekowski: You can. Feb 15 22:05:42 wolf^: unless you use --force-* Feb 15 22:05:47 wolf^: and same with rpm Feb 15 22:05:53 wolf^: you can use force to install it Feb 15 22:06:12 jacekowski, deb will install just fine, but won't "configure" Feb 15 22:06:15 No need to force it. You can install it, but then it cannot be configured. Feb 15 22:06:19 no it wont' Feb 15 22:06:22 i hope some gurus are consulted for this stuff and not middle-managers Feb 15 22:06:42 meddle-managers :) Feb 15 22:06:54 merely-managers Feb 15 22:06:56 :p Feb 15 22:07:20 pupnik: hah .. prolly the middle manager are not even asked, markeing decided Feb 15 22:08:04 pupnik_, if maemo would use rpm and the spec files (debian/* equivalent) would be done the right way, there would be no /opt problem Feb 15 22:08:11 Stskeeps, subscribed to the thread, will help when/where ever i can Feb 15 22:08:16 trbs2: thanks Feb 15 22:08:17 jacekowski: Yes, it will: http://pastebin.centos.org/31535 Feb 15 22:08:32 sounds good wolf^ Feb 15 22:08:35 pupnik_, nokia would define in their sdk proper prefix for all packages and they would be installed to /opt without any modifications Feb 15 22:08:38 wolf^: the fucked up partitioning scheme is somethnig completely unrelated Feb 15 22:08:58 and spec files are fucked up Feb 15 22:09:13 to be honest only good package manager i've seen is portage Feb 15 22:09:17 spec files are very simple to write, unlike debian/rules Feb 15 22:09:32 wolf lol Feb 15 22:09:42 wolf^: you are joking? Feb 15 22:09:44 lol indeed Feb 15 22:09:48 jacekowski, no, of course not Feb 15 22:09:50 i agree, debian/rules is awful Feb 15 22:09:53 debian/* is horror Feb 15 22:09:54 i install debian desktops and servers with 128MB rootfs since ages and have not the problems that the n900 has Feb 15 22:09:55 * pupnik_ patiently awaits some FBSD bombs from 50,000 feet Feb 15 22:10:06 wolf did you have seen rules files witrh cdbs or debhelper7? Feb 15 22:10:10 thats really something nokia failed spectactulary Feb 15 22:10:10 debian packaging is overengineered Feb 15 22:10:16 woglinde, not really Feb 15 22:10:30 woglinde, just the crap dh_make (?) generated for me Feb 15 22:10:46 wolf nope Feb 15 22:10:49 cehteh, true Feb 15 22:11:30 it's easy enough to optify things with "ar" :) Feb 15 22:11:53 woglinde, example spec file: http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/packages/cairo-clock/cairo-clock.spec?rev=1.10 Feb 15 22:12:03 is Maemo dead now? Feb 15 22:12:07 is it called MeeGo? Feb 15 22:12:08 woglinde, %prep, %setup, %install, %clean are different build steps Feb 15 22:12:22 woglinde, it's really simple Feb 15 22:13:07 wolf no quilt patches? Feb 15 22:13:11 please go away Feb 15 22:13:16 woglinde, no what? Feb 15 22:13:23 LiraNuna, yup, Feb 15 22:13:31 well, within the next year or two, anyway. Feb 15 22:13:31 but Intel == x86 Feb 15 22:13:33 i would like quilt to go away :( Feb 15 22:13:40 they'll push Maemo out of ARM Feb 15 22:13:44 LiraNuna, no. Feb 15 22:13:54 LiraNuna, the FAQ says both x86 and ARM devices will be supported. Feb 15 22:13:55 pupnik you suffer the pain from diff -Naur? Feb 15 22:14:00 how did Intel agreed for both? Feb 15 22:14:38 you see in this case intel is the little brother and nokia boss .. i suppose Feb 15 22:14:39 need some help on gstreamer on n900 can anyone help:) Feb 15 22:14:46 woglinde: i guess it fills a need for multiple patches Feb 15 22:14:53 woglinde, actually, the patches are completly orthohonal from dpkg/rpm Feb 15 22:14:56 wolf^: a rules file with debhelper7 looks like this: %: dh ${@} Feb 15 22:15:02 wolf^: that's it Feb 15 22:15:05 the default app manager does not use apt-get? Feb 15 22:15:07 t-tan psst Feb 15 22:15:21 t-tan: random fact, debhelper5 is latest debhelper in maemo5 Feb 15 22:15:29 dont destroy wolf's world Feb 15 22:15:40 stskeeps we have cdbs Feb 15 22:15:47 Stskeeps: nope, we have the debhelper7 backport Feb 15 22:16:14 wolf do you have a example for package-split? Feb 15 22:16:23 woglinde, moment Feb 15 22:16:28 lib dev dbg Feb 15 22:16:38 need some help on gstreamer on n900 can anyone help :) can't get the nokiamp3dec sink to start :( Feb 15 22:16:45 ok .. unrelated, i am going to make the blinkenlight (notification led) plugin for xchat anyone want to help me and has knowledge about the 'proper' way to enable notification and cancel it in maemo? Feb 15 22:16:47 t-tan, how does it look when some special steps needs to be done during for example install stage? Feb 15 22:17:10 (xchat plugin rather than this script hack) Feb 15 22:17:25 wolf you have overrides Feb 15 22:17:41 let me fish the blogpost from joey hess Feb 15 22:18:02 at least we can be happy that not everything in this world has changed, the Pandora still hasn't been released Feb 15 22:18:18 Haha Feb 15 22:18:21 * lardman looks through his archived bookmarks Feb 15 22:18:33 woglinde, http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/packages/SDL/SDL.spec?rev=1.176 Feb 15 22:18:45 woglinde, %package, %description name, %files name Feb 15 22:19:00 * ShadowJK nominates lardman for the quote of the day :) Feb 15 22:19:03 lardman++ Feb 15 22:19:06 http://www.flickr.com/photos/hendry/3763078319/ ("Not your grandma's debhelper" - Joey Hess) Feb 15 22:20:31 pupnik: :) Feb 15 22:26:59 wasn't there a rumor about microsoft office for maemo5? Feb 15 22:27:22 pupnik_: pass me your crack pipe eh? Feb 15 22:27:48 t-tan, it looks much better than that what's in nokia's sdk Feb 15 22:27:53 t-tan, still, I'd prefer rpm Feb 15 22:28:35 pupnik, I think it's office reader for symbian Feb 15 22:28:40 need some help on gstreamer on n900 can anyone help :) can't get the nokiamp3dec sink to start :( Feb 15 22:28:59 wolf^: sure, it's a matter of taste and familiarity - another similar system are the Portfiles... Feb 15 22:29:06 wait Feb 15 22:29:30 in media player Feb 15 22:29:31 does that adflashblock-css actually prevent ads from being downloaded or does it do like Chrome and just hide them after the fact? Feb 15 22:29:34 how do i go to playlist? Feb 15 22:30:07 Hello, I'm trying to fix a memory problem on my N900, the memory drops into read-only, dmseg says fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain. Feb 15 22:30:14 spencer_: you didn't work for Sharp once upon a time did you? Feb 15 22:30:35 spencer_: and re the question, what error do you see? Feb 15 22:32:57 lardman, i think that's the different spencer :P... basically i got an internal negotiation error when i start playing in the nokiamp3dec pipeline... i'll run it again and see what exactly is the error again... Feb 15 22:35:19 spencer_: np :), pastebin the output Feb 15 22:37:15 uhm, how do I write a "1" in dosbox? Feb 15 22:37:18 or any other number? Feb 15 22:37:53 Shapeshifter, google for rover.sys Feb 15 22:38:36 wolf^: thanks Feb 15 22:38:50 does ovimaps not work for directions without data? Feb 15 22:40:52 * jacekowski = N900: Nightwish - Dark Chest of Wonders Feb 15 22:41:12 Gee, thanks for letting us know Feb 15 22:41:26 1080p projectors is real nice to have Feb 15 22:42:44 Shapeshifter: I don't see the point in this "one SD-interface dedicated for /" idea Feb 15 22:43:00 shit, scratch that Feb 15 22:43:53 Oh, man, I need a pano background of this. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=527928&postcount=269 Feb 15 22:45:21 wolf^: for your qt* upgrade question: you can use --get/set-selections and the -O flag Feb 15 22:45:39 wolf Feb 15 22:45:41 ups Feb 15 22:45:43 ah, the wonders of tabbed file browsing Feb 15 22:45:48 KDE is not so bad Feb 15 22:46:23 hi guys. I'm pretty new to maemo, so please excuse my ignorance Feb 15 22:46:36 how to enable exdtras-devel with apt-get? Feb 15 22:46:54 where can I get an ISO or an image of maemo that I can use to load on my netbook (via SD card) Feb 15 22:47:23 sobczyk_: possibly mod your /etc/apt/sources.list? Feb 15 22:47:23 BalSak1, Maemo really only boots on Maemo devices. Feb 15 22:47:29 BalSak1, or devices with very similar hardware. Feb 15 22:47:34 What, exactly, are you after? Feb 15 22:47:38 A development environment? Feb 15 22:47:40 GeneralAntilles: are they not x86-based? Feb 15 22:47:48 Or do you just want to run Maemo on your netbook? Feb 15 22:47:54 No, Maemo 5 targets OMAP3. Feb 15 22:48:05 Certain packages are compiled for x86 for use in the SDK. Feb 15 22:48:31 I want to test maemo. I run other distro's like moblin, android & jolicloud quite OK on it, & I'd really like to test maemo Feb 15 22:48:40 dang! Feb 15 22:48:48 The official SDK doesn't really use virtual machines or emulation or stuff Feb 15 22:48:53 But natively compiled packages. Feb 15 22:49:02 BalSak1, well, you have two options. Feb 15 22:49:08 so, what? can I use the SDK to build an image that I can dd to an SD card & lod it that way? Feb 15 22:49:13 The SDK, which is really only vaguely similar to the actually Maemo experience Feb 15 22:49:26 Or Mer which is more similar in some ways but more different in others. Feb 15 22:49:44 BalSis extra-devel risky? Feb 15 22:49:53 The SDK will give you a testing environment that sort of looks mostly like Maemo. Feb 15 22:49:59 is extra-devel risky? Feb 15 22:50:11 sobczyk_: noidea, sorry Feb 15 22:50:14 depends on your linux knowledge sobczyk_ Feb 15 22:50:38 sobczyk_, if you have to ask, then the answer is yes Feb 15 22:50:48 pupnik_, moderate, bbe on gentoo fo a while, but not a genius :) Feb 15 22:50:51 GeneralAntilles: thanks. I think I'll try Mer, since I'm not inclined to muck around with compiles & such Feb 15 22:51:10 BalSak1, well, the SDK doesn't inolve compiling if you want to test. Feb 15 22:51:33 BalSak1, but the goodnews is that Maemo and Moblin merged into MeeGo today which will run just fine on your netbook in about 6-12 months. ;) Feb 15 22:51:55 sobczyk_: if you can survive messing around with your desktop linux, you can survive -devel Feb 15 22:52:42 keep a close eye on your root partition, don't let it fill up Feb 15 22:52:48 GeneralAntilles: yea, I jsut saw that, which let me to reconsider maemo again. I'd really like to try it out for myself before it merges, & besides, the 1st release is still quite some way off, AFAIK Feb 15 22:52:56 I'll try apt-pinning, I don't want everything unstable Feb 15 22:53:09 GeneralAntilles: but isn't guaranteed to run on N900 AIUI Feb 15 22:53:32 you can temporarily enable -devel just for a package or two Feb 15 22:53:44 DocScrutinizer, yeah, I think that's still up in the air even internally. Feb 15 22:54:02 DocScrutinizer, however, whether Nokia ships support or not seems much less relevant with MeeGo. Feb 15 22:54:04 pupnik_, yeah great idea too Feb 15 22:54:06 thx Feb 15 22:56:06 GeneralAntilles: given the statement "maemo apps will run on MeeGo", I just don't like to see maemo5 won't benefit from all the app development for MeeGo Feb 15 22:56:40 Qt 4.6 on both platforms Feb 15 22:56:54 GeneralAntilles: ... if we were left with maemo5 (6?) on N900, whole the MeeGo train rides on Feb 15 22:57:15 s/whole/while/ Feb 15 22:57:16 DocScrutinizer meant: GeneralAntilles: ... if we were left with maemo5 (6?) on N900, while the MeeGo train rides on Feb 15 22:57:41 deb vs rpm vs dontcare poll: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44597 Feb 15 22:58:08 tar.gz++ Feb 15 23:01:31 wheres the del key mapped? Feb 15 23:01:34 ~curse error-unspecified Feb 15 23:01:35 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, error-unspecified ! Feb 15 23:01:42 MMSC RESPONDED: {'Message-ID': 'g5pv8sawg47q92@w.mms.tele2.se', 'MMS-Version': '1.0', 'Response-Status': 'Error-unspecified'} Feb 15 23:01:45 best error message :< Feb 15 23:04:19 Why the hell did they choose RPM! (sorry, needed to say it) Feb 15 23:04:57 hmm, is there a desktop email widget? Feb 15 23:05:12 So that they wouldn't have to switch back to deb again Feb 15 23:05:42 sandman: to get rid of Maemo5 apps, Debian ARM know-how and open-source loving Debian fans Feb 15 23:05:51 lardman: conversations kind of Feb 15 23:05:59 does that do email? Feb 15 23:06:01 convo desktop widget i mean Feb 15 23:06:07 frals: I've seen worse Feb 15 23:06:12 "error: everything fine!" Feb 15 23:06:12 tells you new mail vs unopened Feb 15 23:06:35 w00t: hehe, loving how i sent the exact same message 20seconds later and it accepted it... >_< Feb 15 23:06:37 t-tan: guess so. I hope they change their mind Feb 15 23:06:52 hmm, am really after a desktop app like the one on Win Mobile HTC something, which presents emails and allows you to scroll through like pieces of paper Feb 15 23:06:53 t-tan: arent most debian arm guys at nokia anyway? Feb 15 23:07:38 I understand the merge but not the rpm.. shit... Feb 15 23:07:47 http://nexus404.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads2/2009/11/HTC-HD2-mail-view-400.jpg Feb 15 23:10:22 Stskeeps: Do you have any insights? I see you op at #meego.. how big is the chance of .deb in meego? Feb 15 23:10:47 hmm, that conversations inbox doesn't allow you to scroll, you have to sit and wait Feb 15 23:11:01 sandman, any "efforts" based on feeling alone: nil Feb 15 23:11:03 Stskeeps: I have no idea. their email adresses don't like @nokia Feb 15 23:11:36 * sandman starts digging a hole Feb 15 23:11:43 sandman: meego was designed for .rpm Feb 15 23:11:44 sandman: I think it was a political decision, not based on technical considerations Feb 15 23:11:48 R.I.P. maemo http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg Feb 15 23:12:06 The switch to RPM probably happend quite some time ago? Feb 15 23:12:10 what's wrong with maemo? Feb 15 23:12:14 t-tan: guess so Feb 15 23:12:14 jacekowski: how can you design a distribution for a specific package format?? Feb 15 23:12:31 it comes with rpm by default Feb 15 23:12:41 that's all Feb 15 23:12:52 Moblin switched from .deb to .rpm last year Feb 15 23:12:54 replacing package manager is ussualy a problem Feb 15 23:13:02 Moblin switched from basing on Ubuntu to Fedora. Feb 15 23:13:04 because it breaks compatibility Feb 15 23:13:35 thought of one possible rpm advantage Feb 15 23:13:40 the only one Feb 15 23:13:43 fatalsaint makes a good point about rpm distros non-compliance Feb 15 23:13:51 you can vhange the installation root Feb 15 23:13:59 the claimed that rpm would be better suited for proprietary software Feb 15 23:14:14 javispedro: after basing for a year on ubuntu; i can see why they might have Feb 15 23:14:15 shit Feb 15 23:14:16 wiretapped, that one made me a bit misty eyed. Feb 15 23:14:19 so no worries on installation of non optified packages Feb 15 23:14:48 maybe Ubuntu's release cycle was to fast for them? Feb 15 23:15:05 t-tan *g* Feb 15 23:15:10 KamuiN900: dpkg --root? But that doesn't take care of putting binaries in path, etc. Feb 15 23:15:13 fedora has 6 month cycle.. Feb 15 23:15:32 if they have based on Ubuntu before then it should not be a problem to go back.. especially when they merge Maemo Feb 15 23:16:02 javispedro: you demolished my theory Feb 15 23:16:49 I think it's just a divide between nokia and intel, intel is better at the lower level stuff, and nokia is better at the UI stuff, so they decided to take UI from Nokia and base system from Intel Feb 15 23:17:22 thus firing the entire nokia lower stuff staff and the entire intel higher stuff staff? /me wonders Feb 15 23:18:02 sandman: true. AFAIK Ubuntu's netbook remix is a Moblin 2 implementation Feb 15 23:18:46 "From what I understand from [1], the the thing I'll miss most will be X11." "[1] http://qt.nokia.com/products/platform/qt-for-embedded-linux#compact-efficient-windowing-system" Feb 15 23:18:50 oh dear Feb 15 23:18:56 I hope X11 wont disappear Feb 15 23:19:00 yeah Feb 15 23:19:00 how will I run xchat without X11 :/ Feb 15 23:19:04 I'd hate to be forced to use Qt Feb 15 23:19:15 maybe the maemo community should try to port the Maemo components to Ubuntu? Feb 15 23:19:37 Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR Feb 15 23:19:37 what, where's X11 going? Feb 15 23:19:37 Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR Feb 15 23:19:37 Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR Feb 15 23:19:37 Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR Feb 15 23:19:37 Scream: LOL IM A HAXXOR Feb 15 23:19:44 microlith: they'll continue Gtk support Feb 15 23:19:46 Dumbass Feb 15 23:20:01 I wonder who scream is? Feb 15 23:20:27 t-tan: not if they ditch X and do that Qt framebuffer crap Feb 15 23:20:41 I can't see going back to that really Feb 15 23:20:47 made porting apps a pita Feb 15 23:20:56 are the cheaper vendors shipping N900's now? Feb 15 23:21:00 I could :) but I don't really expect that for M6 nor the foreseable future. Feb 15 23:21:27 QTE was abandoned wasn't it? Feb 15 23:21:29 neither maemo5 nor maemo6 is currently using "qt for embedded linux" Feb 15 23:21:36 * GeneralAntilles notes mwkn is completely devoid of relevant info for this week. Feb 15 23:21:45 Half the stuff we covered was obsoleted. . . . Feb 15 23:21:54 you get used to it. Feb 15 23:21:59 GTK support: http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture , X11 is not mentioned Feb 15 23:22:22 probably assumed Feb 15 23:22:23 ? Feb 15 23:22:42 of course... Feb 15 23:22:53 lardman: qt embedded is still supported Feb 15 23:23:04 rohanpm: really? Feb 15 23:23:09 yes Feb 15 23:23:17 rohanpm: still based on the very old version of Qt? Feb 15 23:23:32 lardman: qt embedded is just another platform of qt Feb 15 23:23:38 the latest qt versions support it Feb 15 23:23:45 oh ok Feb 15 23:23:47 it's not a separately distributed thing Feb 15 23:23:47 lardman you mean qtopia Feb 15 23:23:51 which is long dead Feb 15 23:24:49 oh wait: yes, X11 support http://meego.com/developers/hardware-enabling-process Feb 15 23:24:53 ah yes, that's probably what I'm thinking off Feb 15 23:24:54 lardman: no Nokia devices which have Qt are actually using qt embedded though (AFAIK) Feb 15 23:25:04 maemo uses qt/x11 and symbian uses qt/symbian Feb 15 23:25:57 what's that new cleanroom X-derivative called Feb 15 23:27:08 pupnik wayland? Feb 15 23:30:14 t-tan: I am with you on that.. there should make a repo for debians too. So the hardware are supported. Feb 15 23:30:24 is push email free? Feb 15 23:30:32 e.g. the Nokia Messenging stuff? Feb 15 23:31:01 t-tan: there is a possibility to repack to .deb Feb 15 23:31:30 lardman, "no" Feb 15 23:31:46 lardman, long answer: it depends on the country you live in and the operator you have Feb 15 23:32:03 ah I see Feb 15 23:32:22 and if it's not free, does it count as data usage? Or do I really need to check? Feb 15 23:32:24 sandman: unfortunately, the package format is not sufficient. it's the whole infrastructure Feb 15 23:32:33 I never realised there was even the option for push email on the N900 Feb 15 23:32:52 wow. meego. just read about this. Feb 15 23:33:21 sandman: but if MeeGo is really open-source (I doubt it) porting the hardware specific stuff to Ubuntu Netbook should be easy Feb 15 23:33:35 t-tan: damn.. but i am sure i have seen something like than.... was it alien it was called. The program sucked but hey... Feb 15 23:33:52 t-tan: let's hope on that Feb 15 23:34:12 t-tan: the latest news from Nokia have frighten me a lot Feb 15 23:34:18 jebba: long time no see Feb 15 23:34:31 ya, been running around a lot :) just catching up now Feb 15 23:35:09 jebba: you just learned that Maemo is RIP? Feb 15 23:35:34 uh huh. Feb 15 23:35:52 quite a surprise. Back to RPM again, i guess ;) Feb 15 23:36:06 sandman: alien is only for the raw package conversion, but not for distribution specific stuff Feb 15 23:36:07 jebba no thanks Feb 15 23:36:21 I will not touch spec files Feb 15 23:36:42 t-tan: ahh... was ages ago since i heard about it Feb 15 23:36:42 only paied Feb 15 23:36:56 ups paid Feb 15 23:37:28 I'll only buy RPM based devices if I get a huge discount Feb 15 23:37:47 heh Feb 15 23:37:55 jeez, is it just me or is the ntfs samba mounter slow as balls Feb 15 23:39:20 http://www.sexyemilie.com/?id=2049953 Feb 15 23:40:59 What happened to my favorite Finnish channel to lurk in? Feb 15 23:41:41 Something happened *just* as a learned how to pronounce Maemo the other day? Feb 15 23:41:45 anything new here since this morning that i should know? Feb 15 23:41:51 sanity check question - maemo5 == N900's version, right? Feb 15 23:42:09 ds3: True Feb 15 23:42:16 uhsf: maemo's dead Feb 15 23:42:16 thanks Feb 15 23:42:21 uhsf: Maemo + Moblin = Meego Feb 15 23:42:38 i know this i was here this morning Feb 15 23:42:38 it's dead when meego arrives Feb 15 23:42:47 not before Feb 15 23:42:56 one more nomeclature question - fremantle == maemo5 right? Feb 15 23:42:56 i meant any new development about this Feb 15 23:42:57 it's dead, jim. Feb 15 23:43:08 So Maemo 6 = Meego 1? Feb 15 23:43:20 no branding decision on maemo6 has been made yet Feb 15 23:43:21 MikeJB: Maemo 6 == Harmattan Feb 15 23:43:22 (iirc) Feb 15 23:43:44 at least before the MeeGo project announcement Feb 15 23:43:54 i'm happy to have bought a n900 when it was released because the next device will work on rpms so it will suck Feb 15 23:43:59 The news articles I read, well, I'm not sure they got into the guts enough. Feb 15 23:44:05 It'll use RPMs? Feb 15 23:44:07 uhsf: are you serious? Feb 15 23:44:20 I'm not aware of anything having been published regarding whether Maemo6 will still be released outside of the MeeGo project Feb 15 23:44:23 maybe the N1000 will be an atom then all this is moot Feb 15 23:44:32 * MikeJB is a bit of a Fedora fan, so switching to RPMs would be great. Feb 15 23:44:49 I practically grew up on Red Hat Linux and Fedora... Feb 15 23:44:51 oh dear, packaging discussion again Feb 15 23:44:54 * w00t goes back to work Feb 15 23:44:57 hehe Feb 15 23:45:02 has anything been published regarding what package manager MeeGo will use ? Feb 15 23:45:11 pinchart no Feb 15 23:45:15 only rpm based Feb 15 23:45:16 * cpscotti but apt-get moo is sooo cooler Feb 15 23:45:25 .deb vs .rpm have been discussed in length, but I don't think that's an important issue Feb 15 23:45:26 Ubuntu swung the balance in favor of .deb, I'd like to see The Package balance out again. Feb 15 23:45:27 moblin has yum Feb 15 23:45:36 And yum is awesome. Feb 15 23:45:46 I'm pretty sure someone could port apt to .rpm :-) Feb 15 23:45:52 But for the end-user... Feb 15 23:45:56 MeeGo time! Feb 15 23:45:56 there already is apt-rpm Feb 15 23:45:59 pinchart is already done Feb 15 23:46:03 "yum install wesnoth" is probably similar to "apt-get install wesnoth" :P Feb 15 23:46:05 it sounds like Ari decided to quit Feb 15 23:46:08 :-) Feb 15 23:46:15 So really, technicalities aren't the most important thing. Feb 15 23:46:17 wazd hm? Feb 15 23:46:23 I am curious on what the guts of the OS will be, though. Feb 15 23:46:24 wazd the blogpost was diffrent Feb 15 23:46:33 woglinde_: well, me_go joke :P Feb 15 23:46:55 wazd or ari and quim are good at black humor Feb 15 23:47:00 dont know Feb 15 23:47:03 meego sleep anyway :D Feb 15 23:47:14 argh Feb 15 23:47:51 meego find a less horrible name Feb 15 23:48:05 it's the jar jar binks distro :( Feb 15 23:48:07 * javispedro now quietly reminds his tmo "so how you know m6 doesn't suck" post at the "n900 owners want m6 thread" Feb 15 23:48:30 :) Feb 15 23:49:04 yodülidü, i develop for maemo, i don't know if megoo suprort n900, jodulidüüü, if n900 go for my efforts gonna Feb 15 23:49:25 ups... Feb 15 23:49:29 sorry Feb 15 23:49:54 currently there's no reason NOT to support n900 Feb 15 23:51:11 satmd: tell me a reason why they should support "old" hardware on the new plattform Feb 15 23:51:24 because it's no extra work Feb 15 23:52:11 same like intel.... they didn't even support theyr own plattform... like gma500! Feb 15 23:52:27 bye maemo, we hardly knew you :( Feb 15 23:54:23 please ignore me, i'm just pissed off... Feb 15 23:54:48 If you develop for QT on maemo it'll require minimal effort to make it work on meego Feb 15 23:55:13 it was nice to buy a 550 euro mobile phone just to get to know that in half a year it's total history and already efforts are taken away from it Feb 15 23:55:32 Scelt, erm? Feb 15 23:55:47 Scelt, WeeGo actually makes it more likely that there's continued support for the N900. Feb 15 23:56:06 sure Feb 15 23:56:12 hi everybody Feb 15 23:56:14 Scelt, you know that most developers started working on Maemo6 before the phone was in the shops, right? :) Feb 15 23:56:36 Scelt, yes, because your FUD is so useful. Feb 15 23:56:53 i'm happy to that channel, been testing maemo on a nokia n900, was using ubuntu for 5 years and i'm building a tablet pc prototype and i think i'm gonna choose one of the maemo branches Feb 15 23:56:54 :) Feb 15 23:56:55 GeneralAntilles: I prefer MeeGoo Feb 15 23:56:59 so hello Feb 15 23:57:09 lardman, guh, it's a hard goddamn name to type. Feb 15 23:57:12 What were they thinking?! Feb 15 23:57:13 GeneralAntilles: have you read jaaksi's latest blog post? Feb 15 23:57:23 sad MeeGoo aint downloadble for testing right know Feb 15 23:57:33 ShadowJK: but maemo6 is not meego Feb 15 23:57:36 We should just rename it to "MeeGo (What were they thinking?!)" Feb 15 23:57:43 ShadowJK: yeah shure, what i'm missing is the statement that the new vesrsion will support n900, because if not, i've no reason to support the whole platform at all. Feb 15 23:57:50 jacquesdptd, they said they should have something out in a few weeks. Feb 15 23:57:53 if nokia was willing to support maemo6 on the N900 I think they would be singing it from the rooftops right now Feb 15 23:58:07 yes i just talked with one of the dev Feb 15 23:58:16 Whatever, I'm so not interested in playing this FUD game again. Feb 15 23:58:32 use no marketing terms Feb 15 23:58:37 instead they're emphasizing that you can develop software for maemo6 using your maemo5 device Feb 15 23:58:37 ain't making you cooler, son Feb 15 23:58:50 so guys what would you suggest me for a 15 inch tablet resistive touch with amd sempron 2000, 1 gig of memory ddr 2 and nvidia based graphic Feb 15 23:58:51 Scelt, FUD's a marketing term? Feb 15 23:58:57 Scelt, anyway, first warning. Feb 15 23:59:02 I'm so not in the mood. Feb 15 23:59:04 i would like a UI smooth full of effect and usuable with the fingers Feb 15 23:59:12 jacquesdptd: ipad Feb 15 23:59:12 do you guys have ideas ? Feb 15 23:59:31 GeneralAntilles: first warning? Feb 15 23:59:54 ipad is far slower than my stuff, not open, no usb, expensive, monotouch, apple is it enough Lumpio- ? Feb 16 00:00:02 aw. Feb 16 00:00:18 my thing is more notebook / netbook / tablet-pc / ipad Feb 16 00:00:18 I don't get the point of big tablets in the first place Feb 16 00:00:30 same point of netbooks Feb 16 00:00:58 openmoko died we have no more options Feb 16 00:01:02 argh Feb 16 00:01:04 Pandora! Feb 16 00:01:05 bloody C++ Feb 16 00:01:07 big tablet = ebook reader Feb 16 00:01:12 .. plus some more fun Feb 16 00:01:29 well i want colored e-ink for that and weeks lasting battery Feb 16 00:02:12 it's just iritating... maemo is gonna die.... symbina: if no one want's it you make it open source.... and now the coorperation with a product like moblin which didn't even supports it's own hardware... shame on intel!!! Feb 16 00:02:27 but this time in your hands, my device will have different possibilities, you come back home, it controls your house medias, you go outside in a internet coffee bar, it makes a real good computer to work on, you're at work you can still work or plug it to video projector for showing project or medias, you are cooking, you have you're kitchen computer, Lumpio- do you need others reasons ? Feb 16 00:02:56 I tried to use my n900 in the oven earlier. Feb 16 00:03:00 It wouldn't get wifi alas. Feb 16 00:03:03 I guess it's all kind of hard to imagine for me Feb 16 00:03:10 (to monitor bread rising) Feb 16 00:03:26 When I come back home I sit in front of my house medias, I don't go into coffee shops, and I have a desktop computer at work. Which I don't use for presentations. Feb 16 00:03:42 ph1l, I thought meego == opensource maemo ontop of moblin base Feb 16 00:04:28 lol at the rpm vs deb holy war. Feb 16 00:04:37 yeah Feb 16 00:04:46 * GeneralAntilles throws holy water on javispedro. Feb 16 00:05:02 rpm vs deb is just bikeshedding Feb 16 00:05:15 I probably shouldn't say it, but I've always been annoyed at when someone just uploaded something from debian straight. With debian's maintainer emails and debian's bugtrackers, etc... Feb 16 00:05:19 ali1234, indeed. Feb 16 00:05:37 I guess when just the packaging becomes such a "big" part of "porting" an app, it just tells you something about how portable that app is and how close to mainstream distros a distro is... the big picture is missing somewhere ;) Feb 16 00:05:50 debs can be abused just like rpms - there is no better example of that than maemo Feb 16 00:06:08 ShadowJK, just that moblin (intel) sucks much! again, they sell gma500 and don't support it on theyre own plattform... Feb 16 00:06:11 Lumpio-, as you said , it's you, i've got already orders, anyway we don't care about what i'm doing i wanna help to get things working and maybe find some help Feb 16 00:06:12 .. just everyone buy a n900 and write software for it and dont care for maemo6 any beyond .. lets see what nokia thinks then :P Feb 16 00:07:03 ShadowJK, i hope nokia has more responsibility thowards theyre customers.. Feb 16 00:07:39 * javispedro throws some more fire Feb 16 00:07:54 s/fire/holy fire Feb 16 00:08:35 Holy Handgrenade? Feb 16 00:08:54 ph1l, well Nokia doesn't support Maemo on most of their devices either. Feb 16 00:10:31 ShadowJK: Don't tell me that Nokia didn't support Maemo... it's theyre only weapon against the holy jobbs-store Feb 16 00:11:11 if there's no apps for maemo... they gonna die.. Feb 16 00:11:28 ph1l, there have been 5 maemo devices, and during that time about 60 other devices from nokia which did not support Maemo. Intel's ratio with Moblin is probably no worse. Feb 16 00:12:54 what's interesting is that moblin is being referred to as an Intel project. Didn't Intel offload it to the Linux Foundation a while ago? Feb 16 00:13:21 yeah, i agree, it's nice to have intel on board, for sure! ... i just hope that nokia dont't drop support for n900 Feb 16 00:13:43 intel is nice like godzilla Feb 16 00:13:47 We always knew they'd drop support for N900. They always do that ;-) Feb 16 00:14:02 jeah... Feb 16 00:14:38 * pupnik_ senses a new opportunity for mer Feb 16 00:14:45 And hey! We should be happy, we've gotten more features to N900 than we were supposed to! Feb 16 00:15:33 what i'd like to say is that niether intel nor nokia is going to push support on old devices , just because they like to sell new devices... Feb 16 00:16:19 new devices are nice as long as the hardware doesn't get worse Feb 16 00:16:28 speakers Feb 16 00:16:42 so Feb 16 00:17:03 since I hardly believe any of you can alter any step of the mr. magoo distro merge, Feb 16 00:17:12 dont want to interrupt, anyway: will N900 receive new updates? as in Maemo 6 maybe? Feb 16 00:17:17 why not create a useless^Wonline petition for Nokia to keep the Maemo brand? :) Feb 16 00:17:18 i don't beleve anyone until i've got a goomeeee (whatewver) support for my n900 :-D Feb 16 00:17:56 somehow I'm glad I skipped the n900 Feb 16 00:18:22 * GeneralAntilles is tempted to setup a global autocomplete for MeeGo. Mee "What were they thinking?!" Go Feb 16 00:18:23 damn t-online blocking talk.maemo.org again Feb 16 00:18:48 Hi AMeegos! Feb 16 00:18:57 They're blocking a forum? Feb 16 00:19:00 What is this, North Korea? Feb 16 00:19:02 milos_, kill me now. Feb 16 00:19:16 huh? t-online does? Feb 16 00:19:17 bef0rd, yeah, this way you've just don't get that much telefone calls :-) Feb 16 00:19:37 Hehe :) Feb 16 00:19:43 yes Lumpio- german goverment forced ISPs to proxy/record DNS lookups and t-online's implementation breaks without a router that redirects IPs Feb 16 00:19:52 IP addresses Feb 16 00:19:55 nice Feb 16 00:20:20 that's hardly true that way you put it Feb 16 00:20:39 sorry modem Feb 16 00:20:42 just turn off the 'navigations-hilfe' Feb 16 00:20:42 it's behind the router Feb 16 00:20:51 bullshit -> pupnik_, you can have any dns-server you want Feb 16 00:21:03 ph1l: not if udp/53 is restricted Feb 16 00:21:21 i can use opendns or verizon, which isn't much better tbh Feb 16 00:21:38 google public dns? Feb 16 00:21:44 4.2.2.2 Feb 16 00:21:46 give them a call. they will tell you you need to upgrade their modem Feb 16 00:21:47 please don't tell me that german isp are blocking port 53... shure? Feb 16 00:22:01 pupnik_: I WORKED for them 5 years ago Feb 16 00:22:21 good, then tell me what they did to break their dns servers Feb 16 00:22:35 nothing, works fine on my box over there Feb 16 00:22:41 how do you turn off 'navigations-hilfe' Feb 16 00:22:41 damn, glad i'm not from europe :-) Feb 16 00:22:50 more likely you have problems with mtu or pmtu Feb 16 00:23:03 nm, it works again Feb 16 00:23:06 pupnik_: surf a non-existant domain Feb 16 00:23:24 the resulting webpage will have a link to the settings of your account, where you can turn it off Feb 16 00:23:42 ahh i see at the bottom, ty Feb 16 00:23:49 ;) Feb 16 00:24:03 after a while it works again. do you know why? Feb 16 00:24:07 same url Feb 16 00:24:20 most likely you're running into pmtu/mtu issues Feb 16 00:24:44 get drtcp and set the mtu to 1492, enable blackhole detection and path mtu Feb 16 00:25:15 on linux, ifconfig eth0 mtu 1492 Feb 16 00:25:16 :p Feb 16 00:25:21 (or ppp0) Feb 16 00:26:51 will need restarting of networking or reboot Feb 16 00:28:25 so what you would sugesst... i have a greate software for maemo5... what should i do... waiting for meego for releasing? Feb 16 00:28:51 do it in qt Feb 16 00:29:08 it's qt allready... Feb 16 00:29:30 oh, no it's gtk Feb 16 00:30:35 ph1l: I think you should ask the meego guys at #meego Feb 16 00:30:51 try to dodge the rpm/deb flamewar Feb 16 00:31:11 it's about home-partition encryption... so at this point youn dont have hildon... or qt Feb 16 00:32:24 I suspect that will be specific to every device anyway Feb 16 00:32:37 Since every device will most likely have different storage devices Feb 16 00:33:04 weeeell... Feb 16 00:33:15 just checked WM7 demo Feb 16 00:33:30 ShadowJK: i would be so glad if there would be a generic hook... Feb 16 00:33:33 I think they've "flattened" UI a bit too much :) Feb 16 00:34:00 wazd, what do you mean? Feb 16 00:34:04 and pics will help Feb 16 00:34:25 jo lcuk Feb 16 00:34:29 hi woglinde Feb 16 00:34:30 lcuk: well, they now have some kind of "typographic" centric UI Feb 16 00:34:35 * lcuk rpms woglinde Feb 16 00:34:40 lcuk what a sad day Feb 16 00:34:43 pics? Feb 16 00:35:06 lcuk: http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-is-official-and-microsoft-is-playing-to/ Feb 16 00:35:30 woglinde to put things in perspective, im burying my gran tomorrow. i would happily use rpms for the rest of my life if it brought her back Feb 16 00:35:48 oh that wazd, it reminded me of liqbase Feb 16 00:36:33 lcuk: well, metro UI concept existed in XP media center already :P Feb 16 00:36:39 indeed Feb 16 00:36:54 but that one made me sit up a bit more than usual Feb 16 00:37:06 do you think the photos zoom when you click em Feb 16 00:40:38 lcuk; plenty of answers in #meego eh? ;) Feb 16 00:40:50 lcuk: looks like no :) Feb 16 00:40:51 indeed Feb 16 00:41:11 and which answer is that Feb 16 00:41:17 and my condolences :< Feb 16 00:41:20 wazd ^ mine here, or the meego one Feb 16 00:41:22 Sorry to hear that, lcuk. :( Feb 16 00:41:46 lcuk: bout zooming pictures :) Feb 16 00:41:58 lcuk: I don't care bout meego much right now Feb 16 00:42:09 wazd, oh, they dont? how do you see one fullscreen after you panned to the thumbs? Feb 16 00:42:26 lcuk: well, it just opens :) Feb 16 00:42:44 aww Feb 16 00:42:45 lol Feb 16 00:43:30 I was pondering... does anyone know about any Hildon-input-method protocol documentation other than the source? Feb 16 00:43:49 cause I've just read some summit slides that make a passing reference to that documentation (including a "SDL binding") Feb 16 00:44:04 javispedro: i recall a mailinglist post about it but not sure there is any actual docs Feb 16 00:44:36 hm.. Feb 16 00:51:28 frals: ok, found it. thanks. Feb 16 00:51:38 np Feb 16 00:53:19 i wonder if they try really hard not to understand you there lcuk Feb 16 00:53:27 * frals heads back to playing with breaking gprs Feb 16 00:53:33 It's amazing that for all of ars generally excellent articles their commenters are really nearly YouTube levels of idiocy. Feb 16 00:53:42 frals, i find that really odd Feb 16 00:53:57 there was fanfare 12months ago about all these moblin machines, i cant find a single one Feb 16 00:54:30 anyway, bed for me, long day tomorrow Feb 16 00:54:39 gnite :) Feb 16 00:54:43 nite lcuk Feb 16 00:54:44 good nite lcuk Feb 16 00:55:40 it's quite a bit of a cultural clash. Feb 16 00:55:50 and I though maemo and moblin were somewhat similar... Feb 16 00:56:03 my next merger proposal: pandora vs meego communities! Feb 16 00:56:07 lol Feb 16 00:56:12 he :D Feb 16 00:56:30 * javispedro joes watch that dilbert tv series episode about mergers Feb 16 00:56:37 mm, new version of fmms posted, better head to bed before it hits the repos so im fast asleep while the shitstorm hits Feb 16 00:56:37 s/joes/goes Feb 16 00:56:43 February 15th, 2010 Feb 16 00:56:47 RIP Maemo Feb 16 00:56:54 http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg Feb 16 00:56:56 yes, a bad day indeed. Feb 16 00:57:10 frals *g* Feb 16 00:57:22 good nite Feb 16 00:57:47 and this is how maemo dies... with thunderous rpm vs deb holy war. Feb 16 00:59:16 man i knew there would be a huge argument about it but i didn't think it would be this bad Feb 16 00:59:19 ²/c Feb 16 01:00:37 I'm actually impressed that rpm is the "holy issue". just the merge itself is more an issue... Feb 16 01:00:56 i figured rpm would be the big issue Feb 16 01:01:00 im just curious whats happening to the maemo.org community Feb 16 01:01:02 nothing else is really clear Feb 16 01:01:16 frals, hoping to run for council to help steer that in the right direction. Feb 16 01:01:18 ah.. osnews. Feb 16 01:01:30 so yesterday they were saying that "a new OS is always good, competition!" Feb 16 01:01:39 because from what ive gathered moblin got 0 community Feb 16 01:01:42 It starts looking more and more like me like meego is becoming maemo's upstream, since meego on nokia will be different then meego on anyway. Feb 16 01:01:47 today they're saying that "... unification that is much needed in ..." Feb 16 01:02:10 ShadowJK: yeah, judging from the #meego chatter it seems that way Feb 16 01:02:22 ShadowJK: that's my actual impression too. if that's the case, then I don't consider it awful either. Feb 16 01:02:42 since for one we'll finally have 100% oss "core platform" -- no more closed icd2! yay! Feb 16 01:02:44 ShadowJK: yes, exactly. and maemo desperately needs an upstream to bring some structure Feb 16 01:03:03 Wish they'd keep the brand. . . . Feb 16 01:03:14 meego is a terrible name, without doubt Feb 16 01:03:42 should've been Meeko, OpenMeeko Feb 16 01:03:54 even OpenMeeko sounds better :) Feb 16 01:03:55 "me" and "we/wii" are the new "Xtreme" Feb 16 01:04:53 You know, it took Freenode 18 freaking months to process the damn contact form now it's complete useless. Feb 16 01:05:02 GeneralAntilles, I REALLY want to keep the maemo brand alive too. I was actually thinking about that just now.. Feb 16 01:05:17 People are already abandoning the mask. Feb 16 01:05:28 s/mask/cloak Feb 16 01:05:32 things to worry about: secretism (why? oh, why???), the new leadership,.. Feb 16 01:05:35 Who owns the maemo trademark? Feb 16 01:05:37 now, im a noob in this community, but, i dont see why this community would have to die or go away Feb 16 01:05:38 they couldn't have kept the name.. neither of them Feb 16 01:05:52 frals: it doesn't. Feb 16 01:05:56 I think that if they did would meant one of the two was disappearing into the other... Feb 16 01:06:00 frals: however - people only have so much time. Feb 16 01:06:01 perhaps the community could keep the brand Feb 16 01:06:17 a nice move would be to opensource all the fremantle gtk apps :) Feb 16 01:06:18 what will happen with actual maemo devices? Feb 16 01:06:19 I wouldn't mind at all if moblin disappeared into maemo... Feb 16 01:06:26 frals: Add to that that devs go - largely - where the users do. Feb 16 01:06:53 you got your maemo in my moblin, you got your moblin in my maemo Feb 16 01:07:05 Anidel, problem is, Moblin doesn't have a community. Feb 16 01:07:06 mece: you don't... others do. I don't care about the name.. I can be romantic and stick with Maemo (great name).. but oh well.. in the end.. it's just a Maemo reincarnation. Feb 16 01:07:11 Anidel, Maemo has a very strong one around maemo.org Feb 16 01:07:12 GeneralAntilles, so what? Feb 16 01:07:15 hy everybody Feb 16 01:07:28 Anidel, so killing our community identity out from under us is a low blow. Feb 16 01:07:31 Andiel, who? Feb 16 01:07:34 GeneralAntilles, that should go follow Maemo into MeeGo Feb 16 01:07:35 Maemo was NOT a great name, but way better than meego Feb 16 01:07:42 I would rather Moblin Feb 16 01:07:49 GeneralAntilles, it is.. but.. it's done.. so let's deal with it Feb 16 01:07:50 SpeedEvil: what i figured, there are quite some movement behind maemo.org... and moblin seems to have 0 :P Feb 16 01:08:07 We own the maemo.org trademark more or less. Feb 16 01:08:12 frals, exactly! Feb 16 01:08:22 GeneralAntilles, so, let's keep it. Feb 16 01:08:26 anyway, im still curious of how this whole maemo/meego "merge" is actually gonna go down and whats gonna be separate Feb 16 01:08:30 GeneralAntilles, let's make it meego.org then.. like it or not Feb 16 01:08:38 frals: yes, me too., Feb 16 01:08:51 I have to wonder if unifying garage is even the right idea. Feb 16 01:08:53 because by the sounds of #meego chatter meego is only lowlevel stuff and each manufacturer gets to add their own flavor on top Feb 16 01:09:11 I think it's unfortunate that there's so much on the Maemo side and so little on the Moblin side and yet the whole merger so far has been VERY biased towards Intel. Feb 16 01:09:16 mhm after all 3 stars its hard to beat ones own highscores in angry-birds :P Feb 16 01:09:20 frals, I think they'll both earn a new UI and the core will be merged from hopefully the best pieces of both platform... Feb 16 01:09:46 Anidel: one can hope :) either way, time will tell i guess Feb 16 01:09:47 i think the whole thing is more about sticking american intel chips into phones Feb 16 01:09:49 hi Feb 16 01:09:55 GeneralAntilles, you think it'll be like that or seen it? Feb 16 01:09:55 instead of european ARM chips Feb 16 01:10:04 Anidel, infra is Intel Feb 16 01:10:07 frals, but we can push for it as well Feb 16 01:10:10 Anidel, technical details are mainly Intel. Feb 16 01:10:18 jacekowski: Embrace Maemo, Extend MeeGo, Entiguish ARM! Feb 16 01:10:20 i'm actually testing moblin 2 and i wanted to know if anybody here managed to make it run using virtual box ? Feb 16 01:10:21 meego reminds me of that hobbits name in lotr. smeegol :-) Feb 16 01:10:22 Anidel, all of the "MeeGo" people I've talked to so far are all Intel. Feb 16 01:10:22 GeneralAntilles, Nokia isn't trashing Maemo into Moblin either Feb 16 01:10:25 but everybody knows that ARM is superior Feb 16 01:10:25 s/Entinguish/Extinguish Feb 16 01:10:39 arm is native RISC processor Feb 16 01:10:50 Anidel: Nokia is trashing all the low level stuff of Maemo Feb 16 01:11:02 while all x86 are only RISC inside while outside is still x86 and whole pipeline has to translate Feb 16 01:11:08 but, much like with the Qt move, "because the low level Moblin stuff is nicer and more open". Feb 16 01:11:09 javispedro, really ? Feb 16 01:11:20 javispedro, you mean ofono? Feb 16 01:11:22 javispedro, you can't run it into 1,2,3 levels ? Feb 16 01:11:25 javispedro: good. all the low level stuff of maemo is either closed or broken or both Feb 16 01:11:39 ali1234: it's working for m Feb 16 01:11:40 e Feb 16 01:11:40 javispedro, i've tried the nokia n900 Feb 16 01:11:42 Anidel: more than ofono -- icd2 comes to mind. Feb 16 01:11:47 GeneralAntilles, so what ? I am sure Intel had more free people to prepare the ground than maemo people Feb 16 01:12:19 where can I find the documentation for "Hildon Touch Text Entry"? Feb 16 01:12:22 Anidel, it's frustrating and doesn't help my whole "I've been punched in the gut" feeling. Feb 16 01:12:35 what you guys think of modde ? Feb 16 01:12:37 anyway.. time will tell.. but let's voice our concern to our maemo guys... I like Maemo, but as long as its soul is there.. I can be fine Feb 16 01:12:48 madde Feb 16 01:12:49 i meant Feb 16 01:12:57 GeneralAntilles, I know.. me neither .. and I am still digesting.. Feb 16 01:13:18 i think whats needed is to focus on getting a council elected that got the time and energy to see this merger through Feb 16 01:13:22 here's a question: If maemo.org is going to go by the wayside, what happens to the existing repos and the devices that dependon them? Feb 16 01:13:37 microlith, no idea. Feb 16 01:13:42 frals: and hoping that the meego people listen? Feb 16 01:13:45 Well after hearing the name MeeGo, Maemo suddenly seems very unique and cool a name. Actually the name is the only thing that really bothers me. Feb 16 01:13:45 surely meamo 6 will still be released? Feb 16 01:13:46 microlith, presumably r.m.o will stay up for a while. Feb 16 01:14:00 or is this happening from today? Feb 16 01:14:04 microlith: *make* them listen ;-) Feb 16 01:14:10 EspadaV8_L, it's going to be fairly close to MeeGo. Feb 16 01:14:11 r.m.o probably will be moved to r.m.c ? Feb 16 01:14:19 frals: they can ignore you. they have through today. Feb 16 01:14:25 the only think I don't actually like is the .com part Feb 16 01:14:25 EspadaV8_L: Maemo 6 is going to be released, and dunno whatever way is Nokia going to be marketing it, but I doubt they moved it to Moblin. Feb 16 01:14:30 Anidel, seems unlikely for legacy support Feb 16 01:14:32 But who knows. Feb 16 01:14:34 (due the short timeframe) Feb 16 01:14:48 GeneralAntilles, :) indeed Feb 16 01:14:51 hey Seb Feb 16 01:14:59 * frals hits his sheeva, stop lagging damn it Feb 16 01:15:02 yo Feb 16 01:15:15 i can kind of see the point behind it, there do target similar devices, so it could help speed up and improve the system Feb 16 01:15:17 javispedro, jaaksi says maemo 6 should be considered a MeeGo release Feb 16 01:15:19 we'll be on the same time zone in a few days for a few months Feb 16 01:15:31 mece: will it have RPM packages already? I seriously doubt it. Feb 16 01:15:36 mece: so it's just a marketing thing. Feb 16 01:16:00 hehe, wonder if we're gonna see a bunch of "adds rpm-support" commits in ham @ gitorious Feb 16 01:16:02 javispedro, possibly. I have no idea. Do we have any m6 developers here? Feb 16 01:16:21 M6 is scheduled for _this year_. If they can rebase and repackage the entire of Maemo in a few months, hats off. Feb 16 01:17:35 javispedro, I was thinking that they've known about this for a while now.. Feb 16 01:17:54 mece: "a core subset of developers has known" for a while, it seems (to prevent leaks) Feb 16 01:17:59 at the end of the day linux is linux Feb 16 01:18:02 this remembers me... why so many secrets??? Feb 16 01:18:10 ali1234, tru dat Feb 16 01:18:18 ali1234: go buy webos phone Feb 16 01:18:38 hehe Feb 16 01:18:39 javispedro: there are all sorts of wacky reasons. Feb 16 01:18:48 javispedro: that just proves my point. maemo is not like webos or android - it is built out of mostly standard components Feb 16 01:18:54 javispedro: For example - releasing to community may have SEC implications. Feb 16 01:19:13 javispedro, well big corporate cooperations are secret until everything is sorted and clear (the business part I mean) so that's no surprise at all. Feb 16 01:19:35 plus, everyone loves a good flamewar right? Feb 16 01:19:46 going to bed, see you later.. and well.. let's see Feb 16 01:19:47 yeah but he was meaning cause of the linux base supposed to be Open :) Feb 16 01:19:49 of course! a good flamewar on the d-day Feb 16 01:19:49 later Feb 16 01:19:50 rpm vs deb war ftw! Feb 16 01:19:59 anyway i'm understanding it Feb 16 01:20:11 Just threaten with openembedded/bitbake/etc... Feb 16 01:20:21 guys is it possible to install maemo on a normal desktop computer running ubuntu desktop ? Feb 16 01:20:33 no. Feb 16 01:20:34 nnnnno Feb 16 01:20:39 mnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooo Feb 16 01:20:39 ok Feb 16 01:20:43 oops Feb 16 01:20:44 sad Feb 16 01:20:47 ShadowJK: "diaf" is an appropriate response to that :P Feb 16 01:20:48 ;) Feb 16 01:20:51 can't dual boot with it ? Feb 16 01:20:54 weird Feb 16 01:20:54 well ... sdk .. think about it Feb 16 01:20:59 but MeeGo should be possible afaict Feb 16 01:21:03 is maemo moving to prm or moblie to deb? Feb 16 01:21:04 i know Feb 16 01:21:04 with some efforts it should be possible Feb 16 01:21:07 or Mer. Feb 16 01:21:20 i've talk with lbt Feb 16 01:21:37 i'm gonna choose meego for the devices i'm gonna create Feb 16 01:21:38 cehteh: it's easy enough. Just point SDK to fullscreen Xorg -- but Maemo sucks at anything other than 800x480 Feb 16 01:21:40 EspadaV8_L, moblin is rpm. maemo is deb. meego is rpm. Feb 16 01:21:53 but for now i'm searching for all kind of os to test them Feb 16 01:22:02 ah, so they'll be using moblin as the base Feb 16 01:22:10 i want something smooth with good visual effects running on any plateform Feb 16 01:22:22 maemo and meego seems to be that os's i'm searching for Feb 16 01:22:33 jacquesdptd: smooth visuals are entirely down to having working accelerated drivers Feb 16 01:22:38 i'm trying to test moblin building some images but that's kinda hard Feb 16 01:22:40 you're looking for moblin indeed, if any platform means any x86 platform. Feb 16 01:22:50 the actual OS you run on top of those is pretty much irrelevant Feb 16 01:22:57 ali1234, plus i have nvidia chipset on my devices Feb 16 01:22:58 (any SSE3 capable x86 platform, of course) Feb 16 01:23:18 jacquesdptd, well they did market meego as a os for many different types of devices, so I guess you're in luck there. Feb 16 01:23:18 i'm trying moblin Feb 16 01:23:27 i wonder if this means meego will also be on the nokia 3g booklet in the future Feb 16 01:23:42 but same here kinda laggy and i have some problem on it, and theres saddly no support on the channel Feb 16 01:24:01 I really hope nok will come out with a nice tablet. The market is wide open since apple hyped up the market and then delivered the iFail. Feb 16 01:24:06 mece, yeah that's what they are saying, we've talked to me about madde Feb 16 01:24:09 well you'd probably have to hack moblin to install the nvidia binary Feb 16 01:24:20 that would correspond for a touch device and qt experience with maemo base Feb 16 01:24:29 do you guys knows a bit about it before i'm testing it ? Feb 16 01:24:43 EspadaV8_L, let's hope so. Feb 16 01:24:50 EspadaV8_L, boooo Windows 7. Feb 16 01:25:33 aw crap, 3:24. I guess I should be getting to bed. I just came here to see if other people are interested in preserving the maemo brand somehow. Feb 16 01:25:52 mece: check the mailing lists Feb 16 01:25:53 is anyone not interested in that? Feb 16 01:26:09 crashanddie, I've never actually done that. Where do I go? Feb 16 01:26:17 o/ Feb 16 01:26:26 GeneralAntilles: i think it'd be interesting if they did something like dell, have an arm system on there too running meego that you can just open the lid and be on Feb 16 01:26:34 mece: in my case my inbox, in your case google probably, can't remember the links Feb 16 01:26:41 and if you need win7 you can do a normal boot and get reduced battery life Feb 16 01:26:59 isn't that what Macos does? Feb 16 01:27:04 I usually just open the lid and it's on Feb 16 01:27:10 i'd rather just have the arm part and use the other 90% of the space for a bigger battery Feb 16 01:27:17 crashanddie, no, its sleep is just less shitty than anybody elses. Feb 16 01:27:35 GeneralAntilles: my point exactly, who cares about the implementation as long as the result is good Feb 16 01:27:57 EspadaV8_L: and why would a chipmaker be interested in providing an extension to built computers? Feb 16 01:28:41 I don't understand why Intel would partner with a ARM-based OS though? Feb 16 01:28:54 crashanddie: Embrace Extend Extinguish! ;) Feb 16 01:28:59 I mean, surely Intel can't believe it can gain traction in in-car computing? Feb 16 01:29:02 crashanddie: make it suck, sell more x86 :D Feb 16 01:29:12 crashanddie, netbooks. Feb 16 01:29:14 from slashdot, words of wisdom! Feb 16 01:29:25 Possibly set-top boxes. Feb 16 01:29:32 crashanddie: they probably have a lot of duplicated work, in which case that make sense Feb 16 01:29:40 Nothing stopping intel from buying arm licenses :) Feb 16 01:29:43 will we see intel producing arm cpus? Feb 16 01:29:50 SpeedEvil: lol Feb 16 01:29:54 probably has more to do with nokia not wanting to deal w/ maemo and focus more on symbian Feb 16 01:29:55 SpeedEvil: I'd like to see that Feb 16 01:30:00 zash they did some time ago Feb 16 01:30:09 strongarm Feb 16 01:30:12 now Intel can provide the developers for the OS and Nokia can provide the open source community (it hopes) Feb 16 01:30:13 though they sold that Feb 16 01:30:18 aren't they wanting to ditch symbian? Feb 16 01:30:22 SpeedEvil: "We've spent 30 years developing our own CPUs, but we've finally come to the conclusion that we're too shit at it, and we'll just stick to producing somebody else's designs" Feb 16 01:30:26 speedevil jupp Feb 16 01:30:28 i can't see them wanting to focus on it just now Feb 16 01:30:32 EspadaV8_L: dunno, I've seen a ton of announcements about symbian lately Feb 16 01:30:35 after lubook I think Feb 16 01:30:45 or lubock Feb 16 01:30:48 my bets are still that intel will try to enter the embedded/phone market with some atom like x86 chips Feb 16 01:30:49 who cares Feb 16 01:30:50 greenfly: of course not Feb 16 01:31:05 yeah, that's just about it being open sourced, that's not really part of nokia now Feb 16 01:31:10 SpeedEvil: ah, too many channels Feb 16 01:31:11 cehteh: and people think the N900 sucks in terms of battery life! Feb 16 01:31:34 crashanddie: not current atoms of course .. Feb 16 01:31:40 allright Feb 16 01:31:49 http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/1720000/1716385/p10-furber.html?key1=1716385&key2=1157826621&coll=GUIDE&dl=GUIDE&CFID=15151515&CFTOKEN=6184618 Feb 16 01:31:57 crashanddie, well, people are wrong :) Feb 16 01:31:59 interview with aRM founder Feb 16 01:32:15 I am going to read further with Thomas covenant and than to bed Feb 16 01:32:19 good nite Feb 16 01:32:42 I guess I'm unclear, if meego is basically going to be based off moblin, what nokia is providing other than some developers, QT, and and agreement to use meego on "flagship" devices Feb 16 01:32:54 other than the community Feb 16 01:33:55 greenfly, the stacks are already pretty damn similar. Feb 16 01:34:11 greenfly, Tracker, phone stuff, etc. will come from Maemo in addition to the similar stuff. Feb 16 01:34:35 ahh makes sense. plus I guess fedora /is/ using more ubuntu-like stuff like upstart these days Feb 16 01:34:41 moblin doesn't support 3g, does it? Feb 16 01:35:04 * EspadaV8_L thinks they should rebase to use Gentoo instead Feb 16 01:35:05 :-D Feb 16 01:35:18 heh, that would be great for battery life :) Feb 16 01:35:23 * zgold *chokes* @ EspadaV8_L Feb 16 01:35:28 * zgold 's comment Feb 16 01:35:50 lol Feb 16 01:36:10 "give me an few days, I'm just updating vim" Feb 16 01:36:19 EspadaV8_L: i can imagine the firmware update process.. 20 days to download/compile the os upgrade Feb 16 01:36:25 EspadaV8_L, some info about what comes from where: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=528564&postcount=355 Feb 16 01:36:27 "No, I SWEAR ls runs faster when I compile it myself" Feb 16 01:36:46 mece: oh boy, tracker from maemo Feb 16 01:36:56 will it use RPM as heard somewhere? Feb 16 01:36:57 mece: i cant tell if thats a blessing or curse having used the n900 Feb 16 01:36:59 anyone who keeps trolling about Gentoo gets kicked Feb 16 01:37:08 meh, typing without my right index finger is annoying Feb 16 01:37:09 and if you want to discuss MeeGo, please join #meego Feb 16 01:37:15 crashanddie: ok Feb 16 01:37:16 mece: that seems to make sense Feb 16 01:37:37 zgold, I've not have any problems with tracker. Everyone else is just doing it wrong I guess :D Feb 16 01:37:50 dammit ok. I really have to get to bed. Ta. Feb 16 01:38:07 crashanddie, but what if we want to say offensive things about it? :P Feb 16 01:38:08 mece: I don't know. I've got about 2000 songs on my device and when I open the media player it literally pegs the CPU for about 2 minutes just downloading data via dbus from tracker Feb 16 01:38:25 GeneralAntilles: then here is fine Feb 16 01:38:41 so what happens to maemo? it'll join the dodo? Feb 16 01:38:47 hang on Feb 16 01:39:49 zgold: I noticed that the first time the index was built, but not after that (at least for the same set of songs) Feb 16 01:40:11 crashanddie: in all seriousness, why the anti-meego sentiment? (a joke perhaps?) Feb 16 01:40:12 h8t3r Feb 16 01:40:26 greenfly: Its consistent for me, sadly. Might be something to do that im using ogg files? Feb 16 01:40:29 zgold, because we love Maemo, we love maemo.org and we love our community. Feb 16 01:40:47 zgold, and Nokia and Intel sort of made a backroom deal to kill them all and replace them with a Fisher Price toy. Feb 16 01:40:57 zgold: hmm, wonder if you basically reset the tracker db if it'd help Feb 16 01:41:17 lol, nice image :) Feb 16 01:41:18 greenfly: is there a tracker command to do that? Something like trackerd --reset ? Feb 16 01:41:29 crashanddie, change that, you dont speak for the community Feb 16 01:41:44 GeneralAntilles: I guess I agree about the backhandedness, but i do think they were well intentioned and good will come of it Feb 16 01:41:49 GeneralAntilles: do you really think it'll change the community? Feb 16 01:41:51 you might be a moderator, but thats just not nice Feb 16 01:41:58 zgold: there is one, but I don't recall it at the moment Feb 16 01:42:01 i mean, coding apps in Qt/GTK will be the same Feb 16 01:42:12 actually a toy would sell better than a hacker device Feb 16 01:42:14 the base system is similar Feb 16 01:42:25 the only difference will be packaging the apps Feb 16 01:42:51 zgold: this whole thing has always been about openness. I remember Ari Jaaski, at the very Maemo Summit explaining how hard it was to convince Nokia execs to embrace openness, but that they finally got there, and that they were enjoying it as much as we were. Where was the openness in this merger? Why were people signed under NDAs before being told about it (which in an Open Source community is like bribing or holding a knife u Feb 16 01:42:56 EspadaV8_L, how can it not? Feb 16 01:43:07 lcuk: damn, did Nokia merge your sense for humour as well? Feb 16 01:43:15 crashanddie, obviously for marketing reasons. Feb 16 01:43:31 * pupnik_ thinks it's time for pizza Feb 16 01:43:39 eh, I think in a year the community will more or less as it is now--same battered-wife syndrome with Nokia, but still willing to believe it's different this time Feb 16 01:43:52 crashanddie: I dont know, I think there are probably corporate realities that required the hush hush until now Feb 16 01:43:57 greenfly, :rolleyes: Feb 16 01:44:04 everyone who threatens to leave will still be here, sans a few Feb 16 01:44:05 zgold, I agree 100% Feb 16 01:44:15 zgold, doesn't make it feel less like I've been punched in the stomach. Feb 16 01:44:20 GeneralAntilles: amen Feb 16 01:44:27 everyone else will eventually just get back to working on what they find interesting Feb 16 01:44:28 zgold, the reasons people have trouble with it are primarily emotional. Feb 16 01:44:40 zgold: I feel pretty sick to be honest, and I don't know why I would stay Feb 16 01:44:47 GeneralAntilles: I generally like the name Maemo better than meego :) Feb 16 01:44:55 zgold, it's worlds better. Feb 16 01:44:56 crashanddie: why would you leave is a better question i think Feb 16 01:45:06 zgold: well, meego sounds like the name of a retarded alien Feb 16 01:45:07 nokia make good hardware, they just have issues following it through with the software at time Feb 16 01:45:08 zgold, it's also been built up as a reasonable strong brand Feb 16 01:45:08 s Feb 16 01:45:09 GeneralAntilles: oh I agree what they did and the secrecy totally sucks and is a slap in the face to the maemo community Feb 16 01:45:10 crashanddie: unless you have some really strong affection to debs Feb 16 01:45:12 (at least compared to MeeGo) Feb 16 01:45:23 especially considering how much they expect the community to do for them Feb 16 01:45:32 zgold: I do, and I loathe rpm (I've done both Feb 16 01:45:33 greenfly, that's the fun of Maemo. Feb 16 01:45:44 zgold: I wasn't here because of the OS. I was here because of a combination of the software, hardware, the possibilities, and the community. More than once was working with a handful of people the only reason I stayed here Feb 16 01:45:46 greenfly, if they shipped a platform like the iPhone I wouldn't be interested. Feb 16 01:46:06 heh I wouldn't be around here either, in that case Feb 16 01:46:09 crashanddie: what about that changed? Feb 16 01:46:24 crashanddie: Moblin provides a lot of really cool things (Faster boots anybody?) Feb 16 01:46:27 it's the fact that I don't have to jailbreak or violate warranties to get root that brought me here Feb 16 01:46:31 crashanddie: will only make the device better i guess Feb 16 01:46:44 crashanddie, there was a long period you didnt even have an active device! Feb 16 01:46:54 lcuk: indeed Feb 16 01:46:56 zgold: if it wasn't for lcuk, GeneralAntilles, anidel, vdvsx and jaffa, I probably wouldn't be here anymore, and for quite some time. Feb 16 01:47:30 I dunno, did they fire lcuk ? Feb 16 01:47:40 * lcuk looks Feb 16 01:47:59 zgold: I just don't see what it brings Feb 16 01:48:13 zgold, can you fwd me that mail Feb 16 01:48:17 zgold: the only thing I see is marketing hype and changing names to remove the blistering that Maemo endured with the N900 Feb 16 01:48:20 lcuk: I would never :) Feb 16 01:48:45 what blistering... the thing is still sold out everywhere.. Feb 16 01:48:45 crashanddie: I think its too early to judge thaat Feb 16 01:49:10 crashanddie: unless you know something about the actual state of maemo 6 that I don't Feb 16 01:49:15 zgold: it's an easy escape hatch, rather than fighting through. Intel has its fingers in more pies than a lepper on a cooking course, so uniting forces with them is pretty much a moot point. Feb 16 01:49:21 i see the technical aspects of widening the scope of maemo to be essential Feb 16 01:49:35 crashanddie: intel has a way better reputation with the open source community in general Feb 16 01:49:45 i've not heard any bad press about the n900 Feb 16 01:49:57 well, they do fuck all, so yeah, not hard to have a good reputation if you never make mistakes Feb 16 01:50:01 EspadaV8_L: I have, usb connectors falling out, battery life, no multi touch Feb 16 01:50:04 unless you count "it's for geeks" bad Feb 16 01:50:14 EspadaV8_L: nothing worth thinking twice about though Feb 16 01:50:15 crashanddie: they released open source drivers and the full documentation for their graphics cards Feb 16 01:50:15 crashanddie: not really 100% true. See powertop forex. Feb 16 01:50:30 well.. I'm personally wondering what i can do to keep the connector from falling out Feb 16 01:50:35 they also made a lot of contributions to xorg to make sure the drivers really worked Feb 16 01:50:52 intel do as much "behind the scenes" stuff as nokia Feb 16 01:50:59 okay, I'm probably wrong on a lot of points Feb 16 01:51:01 Honestly, i do feel the sucker punch, but I can't think of anything better than *finally* a united force pushing linux Feb 16 01:51:01 what they don't do is build "communities" Feb 16 01:51:20 personally i think nokia and intel is a good compliment Feb 16 01:51:22 sheepbat: don't stress the connector. Feb 16 01:51:23 zgold: Right, we need Maemo running on more than one platform. Feb 16 01:51:25 ali1234: as I explained on the ML, there is no community for Moblin as there is no released device that has it OOTB Feb 16 01:51:34 indeed Feb 16 01:51:43 sheepbat: push it straight in, pull it straight out. Don't tread on it. Feb 16 01:51:47 so there's a few ways we can look at this Feb 16 01:51:49 but what is a community really? Feb 16 01:51:53 yes, SpeedEvil Feb 16 01:52:04 sheepbat: Don't touch the cable when plugged in. - well - don't press on it. Feb 16 01:52:06 either we take it as a godsend, and embrace a small modification to Maemo in order to enable the use of Maemo on more devices Feb 16 01:52:09 ali1234: free developers, tech support, and fans? Feb 16 01:52:10 is it developers? is it end users? is it people whining on forums? Feb 16 01:52:19 reillyeon: would be nice for there to be more than 1 maemo device at the edge too wouldn';t it? Feb 16 01:52:28 if I'm using the phone while plugged in, I'll generally fold it back so that it's touching the back surface Feb 16 01:52:33 ... Feb 16 01:52:37 I just wish they kept Maemo as the name Feb 16 01:52:38 just so the weight of the cable isn't tugging down on it Feb 16 01:52:46 weeblo Feb 16 01:52:56 zgold, I agree, reducing fragmentation has been something I've been waiting for for a long time. Feb 16 01:53:02 well, in other news, I don't feel quite as bad about the iPad name anymore Feb 16 01:53:02 greenfly: plenty of people are out there giving free tech support for intel drivers. they just don't consider themselves part of a "community" of intel users Feb 16 01:53:03 zgold, doesn't take much of the sting away, though. Feb 16 01:53:10 greenfly: they're just part of their distro community Feb 16 01:53:26 zgold: Android has the "give us a phone and we'll bring great software" model. We need that too. Feb 16 01:53:36 GeneralAntilles: I think that'll wear off when we have Maemo 6 booting in 3 seconds Feb 16 01:53:56 GeneralAntilles: thanks to mobilin tech =P Feb 16 01:53:57 zgold: how often do you boot your n900? Feb 16 01:54:04 greenfly: sadly more often than i'de like to admit... Feb 16 01:54:08 zgold: maemo 6 will be meego compatible, nobody said it would be the first instance of meego (what I mean by that, dunno if it'll run on other platforms) Feb 16 01:54:14 I rarely boot either my n900 or my laptop Feb 16 01:54:18 greenfly: I have to boot it after I take it out. Battery never lasts a trip outside. -.- Feb 16 01:54:30 ~greenfly++ Feb 16 01:54:43 greenfly: your point is valid though, but i think so is mine -- moblin does bring some good quality tech and definitely a lot of good engineers Feb 16 01:54:47 luke-jr: then come back home during the week? Feb 16 01:54:48 or rather, battery might last, but BME forces a shutdown -.- Feb 16 01:54:52 which sucks because I set up a really cool boot video Feb 16 01:55:11 greenfly: oh did they ever post the app that makes that easy? Feb 16 01:55:12 crashanddie: it lasts 3 hours tops Feb 16 01:55:15 zgold: definitely, not critisising that at all Feb 16 01:55:17 greenfly: ive been meaning to do that forever Feb 16 01:55:29 greenfly: You have a point, most non-smartphones take ~20 seconds to boot and people live with it. Feb 16 01:55:33 luke-jr: you're doing it wrong! Feb 16 01:55:40 crashanddie: Nokia won't let me do it right :( Feb 16 01:55:44 cool Feb 16 01:55:46 zgold: dunno, it's really easy, put avi in /usr/share/hildon-welcome/something/ and edit /etc/hildon-welcomed/default.conf to point at it Feb 16 01:56:10 greenfly: what video did you use? there was a really cool maemo one i saw on a talk.maemo thread that i definitely lost Feb 16 01:56:13 talking from moblin2 emulated on ubuntu Feb 16 01:56:27 zgold: I took an avi of Hackers I ripped and cut out a few seconds Feb 16 01:56:39 seems to work perfectly Feb 16 01:56:39 fuck me, there's a flood going on here in brisbane Feb 16 01:56:43 greenfly: touche Feb 16 01:56:44 some people forget shutdown times, my samsung shuts down instantly! I mean, I'm just walking, look at it, and in the blink of an eye, puf! it's off, it's amazing, now I only have to get it to do it only when I want it to... Feb 16 01:57:09 luke-jr: weird. mine lasts generally all day Feb 16 01:57:20 crashanddie: also, I got mine off ebay Feb 16 01:57:22 or at the very least until I get home (if I'm using it heavily) Feb 16 01:57:34 crashanddie, good thing you're up high in a hotel, eh? Feb 16 01:57:59 but I also don't have everything dialed all the way up, well and I don't leave all the conversations plugins on all the time Feb 16 01:58:12 GeneralAntilles: aye Feb 16 01:58:22 GeneralAntilles: going for a ciggy and maybe filming a bit Feb 16 02:08:20 sad to learn there4s no possibilities to run maemo on a pc Feb 16 02:08:45 or on virtualisation software Feb 16 02:09:10 closest you can get is the SDK Feb 16 02:09:16 yes Feb 16 02:10:14 and building a versionfron it you mean ? Feb 16 02:10:23 Well, and Mer. Feb 16 02:12:30 weve been talking to me about mer can you explain me what it is M Feb 16 02:12:45 ? Feb 16 02:13:40 jacquesdptd-mob2: uh, Maemo runs in qemu if you do some magic tricks Feb 16 02:14:10 yes like i did for moblin 2 Feb 16 02:15:17 but i would prefer to find a way to install it as an os cause virtualised its verry laggy even on a very good computer Feb 16 02:15:45 oh well Feb 16 02:15:53 be glad Maemo is merging into Moblin I guess Feb 16 02:16:23 jacquesdptd-mob2, maemo plays best on nokia hw thats the difference Feb 16 02:16:33 Maemo only plays on Nokia hw Feb 16 02:16:49 you can run it in xephyr Feb 16 02:17:51 im actually hardly talking inempathy installed in moblin 2 fro; virtual box and wrong keyboard Feb 16 02:18:09 what a lag ;) Feb 16 02:19:43 yes i knoz but then what should i choose for os for a device with sempron and nvidia chipset and resistive touch screen that im building as tablet so virtual keyboard needed and finger travelling Feb 16 02:20:15 i picked up an x41 pen tablet last year Feb 16 02:22:06 me in planet to build tablets from comfortable notebooks Feb 16 02:22:27 is the screen usable for drawing lcuk? dead spots? Feb 16 02:22:28 i have the designer for the boxes and the usb panel capacitive touch screen add on Feb 16 02:22:33 i'd be worried about that with a used x41 Feb 16 02:23:08 cant wait to receive my touch screen my professional bank is really interested by the project i have to do things good Feb 16 02:23:25 pupnik, :( the cable is look in the twisty hinge and it rarely functions as a tablet any more, its just became the couch surfboard pc Feb 16 02:24:04 is look? Feb 16 02:24:16 mmmn is stuck Feb 16 02:24:23 i wnt to make somthing more than a tablet browser thats im opting for a powerfull device Feb 16 02:24:40 ah ok. well getting a decent paint prog on tablet should suffice for me Feb 16 02:24:53 i ran liqbase on it for ages Feb 16 02:24:53 need a quick way to pan image, and select brushes/colors Feb 16 02:25:27 i want to group notebook / netbook / ipad / tablet-pc with user friendly interface and very beautiful customisable box Feb 16 02:25:39 ... Feb 16 02:25:51 http://liqbase.net/liqbase_big.JPG pupnik i could dig out the port Feb 16 02:26:06 * luke-jr wonders if LCDs can be compressed Feb 16 02:26:27 kitchen pc,visio conference, professional laptop, fast media center. mobility Feb 16 02:26:34 luke-jr, usually with shattering results Feb 16 02:27:19 i have fairly specific ideas for a sketch app, like everyone seems-to :) Feb 16 02:27:38 with advantages of usb connectors oppened run low level vga connector for TV video projector Feb 16 02:28:10 though i see how yours is very good for disgrammatic/text sketching Feb 16 02:28:13 lcuk: no, I'm thinking like N900, but with a button that makes it grow to 2-3 times the physical size... Feb 16 02:28:21 I WANT USB HOSTS!!!! Feb 16 02:28:29 luke-jr, just pull another out of your pocket Feb 16 02:28:37 lcuk: squared. Feb 16 02:28:45 luke-jr, it scales ;) Feb 16 02:28:52 lcuk: my pocket doesn't Feb 16 02:29:03 ds3 http://www.open-pandora.org/ that should be out this year sometime :) Feb 16 02:29:14 luke-jr, there was a rollout concept somewhere Feb 16 02:29:18 ds3: hint: they said that 2 years ago Feb 16 02:29:19 I don't want a pandora! Feb 16 02:29:32 luke-jr: I am well aware of that Feb 16 02:30:24 * vmlemon_ waits for the iPad Shuffle Feb 16 02:30:32 pupnik_: and unless I get paid, I am not working on the USB host feature on the OpenPandora either Feb 16 02:30:58 dl Feb 16 02:31:05 what do you work on? Feb 16 02:31:29 me? embedded linux stuff Feb 16 02:31:37 cool Feb 16 02:31:50 the USB hosts on OP Is a potential can of worms Feb 16 02:32:16 note how Nokia has not wired it that way in any of their NITs Feb 16 02:32:57 Me? I'm just one of those weird Symbian (and occasionally Apple Darwin, Linux, various UNIXes and other platforms) folks, with a passing interest in the whole Maemo/MobLin/MeeGo saga... Feb 16 02:32:58 can the N900 easily handle multiple DUN connections via BT? Feb 16 02:33:10 ds3, use PAN instead? Feb 16 02:33:27 GA: okay, can it handle a DUN and a PAN connection at the same time? Feb 16 02:33:41 ds3, dunno. Feb 16 02:33:45 ds3, but it's just BlueZ Feb 16 02:34:12 GA: I am more concerned with the UI side... there is a entire spider web of DBUS droppings around and inside BlueZ Feb 16 02:34:30 the alternative is for me to build a little box that exports the USB host functionality via BT Feb 16 02:34:34 ds3, there's no UI support for either. Feb 16 02:34:57 GA: oh.. so all the DUN/PAN stuff that was in the N800 got chucked? Feb 16 02:35:16 well, not PAN, but the DUN stuff Feb 16 02:35:52 Yeah, since there's little point for client and host is a lot of work. Feb 16 02:36:03 Fairly straightforward to do it without the GUI, though, I hear. Feb 16 02:36:10 yes, they are symetrical Feb 16 02:45:03 im actually installing madde and configuring it Feb 16 02:45:34 you agree i can build a version of maemo from it ? Feb 16 02:48:46 well what i wanted to say is that if i can contribute to the project ill do it and wont keep things for me **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 16 02:59:57 2010