**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 19 02:59:58 2010
Feb 19 04:40:25 <TTilus> timeless_mbp: why is that you dont wanna go ask #apache?
Feb 19 04:47:40 <Jef91> is there some kind of trick to getting my AIm to connect under VOIP/IM accounts? it works under pidgin on my n900 but not under IM in the conersation
Feb 19 05:35:02 <MiXu-> There's a plugin pack for that
Feb 19 05:35:11 <MiXu-> in extras
Feb 19 06:28:26 <Guest85276> hi,there
Feb 19 06:28:32 <johnx> m00f
Feb 19 06:30:19 <Guest85276> setenv IRCNICK eric.leopard
Feb 19 06:44:00 <slonopotamus> meh... microb is painfully slow on n800 after 3 months with n900
Feb 19 06:44:13 <villemv> use tear
Feb 19 06:44:23 <villemv> it's not slow, merely buggy :-)
Feb 19 06:45:25 <slonopotamus> sloow. i get 'javascript on this page is runninng slowly, stop it?' here and there.
Feb 19 06:59:53 <sejo> hey all when you are writing a python app for the maemo what db do you use? sqlite?
Feb 19 07:09:52 <villemv> sejo: sqlite
Feb 19 07:10:01 <villemv> sejo: ditto for other apps using a db, basically
Feb 19 07:13:12 <sejo> villemv: thx
Feb 19 07:14:09 <sejo> hmm when I lounch the xephyr (scratchbox) I see almost no apps, aftec /scratchbox/login trying to do fakeroot apt-get update tells me it can't connect
Feb 19 07:14:19 <sejo> how do I get connection?
Feb 19 07:32:04 <sejo> someone knows how to connect with the scratchbox install to internet so I can update the target?
Feb 19 07:32:50 <adeus> make sure /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is ok
Feb 19 07:34:35 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Feb 19 07:35:52 <sejo> adeus: thanks
Feb 19 07:42:23 <sejo> hmm my scratchbox doesn't find python2.5-qt4-gui
Feb 19 08:01:01 * DocScrutinizer waves
Feb 19 08:02:54 <timeless_mbp> TTilus: well, given that jebba fixed my problem for me, it doesn't seem right to bother them
Feb 19 08:03:00 <timeless_mbp> it surely was an RTFM case
Feb 19 08:03:13 <timeless_mbp> but i'm not interested in learning 200 toolchain components
Feb 19 08:44:04 <Khertan> Hello ... !
Feb 19 08:44:14 <Khertan> Does there is a problem with drop.maemo.org ?
Feb 19 08:45:06 <Shrik3> someone dropped it
Feb 19 08:45:12 <Shrik3> and it fell
Feb 19 08:46:26 <Khertan> oh oh oh ...
Feb 19 08:46:41 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 08:47:15 <Khertan> Oh my god ... got a mail from the backup nas ... Disk Full
Feb 19 08:47:16 <Khertan> huhu
Feb 19 08:50:50 <kalikiana> reboot loop after SSU.. not nice
Feb 19 09:38:02 <Lantizia1> Morning!
Feb 19 09:50:55 <crashanddie> yo everyone
Feb 19 09:51:02 <crashanddie> I need some help here, can anyone fill me in on what's been happening with SIO2?
Feb 19 09:51:08 <ericleopard> hi
Feb 19 09:51:14 <Stskeeps> discussion still going on, i think
Feb 19 09:51:27 <crashanddie> yeah, but what happened with the software and such?
Feb 19 09:51:47 <nid0> they created several fake accts to vote up their own software into extras
Feb 19 09:51:53 <nid0> without it actually getting tested properly
Feb 19 09:52:01 <crashanddie> ok, and?
Feb 19 09:52:07 <nid0> they got found out
Feb 19 09:52:13 <crashanddie> that's it?
Feb 19 09:52:42 <Stskeeps> crashanddie: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44928 is a good summary :P
Feb 19 09:53:40 <RST38h> crash: yea
Feb 19 09:53:59 <RST38h> That is basically it. Was gonna happen sooner or later.
Feb 19 09:54:42 <crashanddie> Isn't that more likely proving the failure of our system?
Feb 19 09:55:15 <nid0> well its both, there were some loopholes in the vode validation that let him do it and he's used that as justification for it
Feb 19 09:55:28 <nid0> the fact that you can exploit something isnt a good reason to, imo.
Feb 19 09:55:48 <zChris> thats like saying you can break into a house just becosue you can crash the window :P
Feb 19 09:56:03 <nid0> i can go stab someone this afternoon, my fault or societies for letting me?
Feb 19 10:02:34 <zChris> nid0: societies ofcourse :)
Feb 19 10:02:39 <zChris> society^
Feb 19 10:04:10 <jacekowski> hi
Feb 19 10:04:18 <jacekowski> question
Feb 19 10:04:21 <jacekowski> i've lost stylus
Feb 19 10:04:33 <pupnik_> shut up
Feb 19 10:04:33 <crashanddie> jacekowski: that's not a question
Feb 19 10:04:35 <jacekowski> does anybody know where and how much does it cost to get a new one?
Feb 19 10:04:46 <crashanddie> pupnik_: oy! Don't talk to me like that
Feb 19 10:05:05 <zChris> jacekowski: check the local stores?
Feb 19 10:05:26 <crashanddie> jacekowski: finger works pretty well
Feb 19 10:05:32 <zChris> jacekowski: www.prisjakt.nu
Feb 19 10:05:38 <pupnik_> i hate people who spread text over multiple lines crashanddie
Feb 19 10:06:06 <jacekowski> mhm
Feb 19 10:06:13 <zChris> pupnik_: its impossible not to if you want to say something more than once ;)
Feb 19 10:06:14 <jacekowski> i might just go to shop
Feb 19 10:06:18 <jacekowski> they have n900 on display
Feb 19 10:06:27 <jacekowski> and steal from there
Feb 19 10:06:30 <zChris> jacekowski: yeah they probably have one stylus for you
Feb 19 10:06:32 <jacekowski> but it's probably already stolen
Feb 19 10:06:46 <jacekowski> pupnik_: don't hate me
Feb 19 10:07:00 * satmd reads and wonders
Feb 19 10:08:01 <jacekowski> i'll have to go home at lunch and verify if i don't have it
Feb 19 10:08:30 <jacekowski> maybe i left it there
Feb 19 10:10:43 <satmd> how can I access a javascript context menu on microb? o_O
Feb 19 10:11:40 <pupnik_> shut up zChris
Feb 19 10:13:24 <oly> any chance we are going to see python-avahi library or is it currently available somewhere already ?
Feb 19 10:14:32 <zChris> pupnik_: hihihi ^^
Feb 19 10:18:03 <crashanddie> satmd: use the mouse icon
Feb 19 10:18:25 <crashanddie> satmd: swipe your finger from outside the lower left hand side of the screen
Feb 19 10:19:30 <lcuk> mornin crashanddie \o
Feb 19 10:23:25 <oly> alternatively do we have any other python libraries available for mdns ?
Feb 19 10:31:15 <crashanddie> morning lcuk !
Feb 19 10:31:20 <crashanddie> lcuk: how's it going?
Feb 19 10:36:05 <lcuk> crashanddie, its good :) seeing lots of things come together
Feb 19 10:36:18 <crashanddie> lcuk: in what aspects?
Feb 19 10:36:37 <lcuk> i cant tell you that :P
Feb 19 10:36:50 <lcuk> its my birthday tomorrow \o/
Feb 19 10:38:56 <crashanddie> lcuk: I know it is
Feb 19 10:39:13 <crashanddie> lcuk: you bastard, you shouldn't have said it, now you'll never know if I really knew or not
Feb 19 10:39:28 <lcuk> more than me, with events this week i had forgotten
Feb 19 10:41:35 <bva> you'll have a new one next year
Feb 19 10:43:08 <Termana_n810> unless you get run over in the mean time ^o_o^ *evil laugh*
Feb 19 10:45:30 <bva> now I'm starting to immagine all the things that can happen (funniest first)
Feb 19 10:49:26 <vesa> anyone tried grooveshark on the n900? i keep getting network errors.
Feb 19 10:54:10 <Mece> hey, you know Yakuake, as in the application?
Feb 19 10:54:36 <ifreq> nope.. but i know the guy called yakuake
Feb 19 10:54:43 <ifreq> or was it a chick..
Feb 19 10:54:44 <ifreq> :-P
Feb 19 10:56:17 <vesa> scratch that, it works fine =)
Feb 19 10:56:22 <vesa> who needs spotify!
Feb 19 10:56:39 <Sho_> Mece: I know Yakuake
Feb 19 10:58:24 <Mece> I'd really like something like that for maemo5
Feb 19 10:59:13 <Sho_> Mece: I develop it, actually :-)
Feb 19 11:01:35 <villemv> someone needs to make a google buzz client too
Feb 19 11:01:39 <villemv> when the apis are out
Feb 19 11:01:43 <Mece> Sho_ sweet :)
Feb 19 11:01:46 <unnamed_hero> Free love?
Feb 19 11:02:49 <Mece> gah these tunnels are confusing. focusing on my phone too much, so I keep taking wrong turns..
Feb 19 11:03:44 * Mece is walking around under Hel
Feb 19 11:07:14 <Mece> Sho_, is yakuak qt?
Feb 19 11:09:55 <crashanddie> Guys, I have bad news
Feb 19 11:09:59 <crashanddie> The world is coming to and end
Feb 19 11:10:08 <Mece> crashanddie, again?
Feb 19 11:10:13 <crashanddie> I have been called "the voice of reason"
Feb 19 11:10:27 <Mece> LOL
Feb 19 11:10:32 <crashanddie> which can only mean very bad things are about to happen
Feb 19 11:10:34 <satmd> lol
Feb 19 11:10:47 <Mece> crashanddie, source plz?
Feb 19 11:11:04 <crashanddie> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=536288&postcount=218
Feb 19 11:11:04 <Mece> or [citation needed]
Feb 19 11:11:29 <Sho_> Mece: Yes, Yakuake is a KDE application
Feb 19 11:15:25 <Mece> Sho_, you think its something that could
Feb 19 11:16:52 <Mece> be ported, or would it be better to start from scratch?
Feb 19 11:17:44 <Mece> Sho_, I've only seen it demonstrated, so I don't really know that much about it.
Feb 19 11:17:46 <Sho_> Mece: In principle it would work fine. Open questions would be how Maemo's window manager would cope with it, or whether the window animation method needs adjustments for that platform. Things like the config dialog would also need some UI adjustments for Maemo, of course.
Feb 19 11:20:54 <sejo> how do you get python-qt on the scratchbox? It's not in the freemantle
Feb 19 11:23:02 * timeless_mbp sighs
Feb 19 11:23:07 <timeless_mbp> nokia marketing for the win
Feb 19 11:23:12 <timeless_mbp> they announced a new product in 2010
Feb 19 11:23:21 <asj_> damn a pack of smokes in AU is $15
Feb 19 11:23:21 <timeless_mbp> and with it they created a contest that ended in 2008
Feb 19 11:23:41 <red> :D
Feb 19 11:23:47 <sejo> timeless_mbp: lol
Feb 19 11:24:01 <timeless_mbp> sejo: challenge. see if you can find that contest
Feb 19 11:24:12 <Khertan> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/ <--- semms down
Feb 19 11:27:25 <satmd> nack. working here.
Feb 19 11:27:30 <Mece> Sho_, I guess it should be a stripped down version. I imagine it usingone of those (qt version of) gtk.dialog as a container or something.
Feb 19 11:28:41 <achipa> timeless_mbp: I know one where you could get the results in december 2009 for the competition you can apply to from february 2010, does that count ?
Feb 19 11:29:04 <Sho_> Mece: Possibly
Feb 19 11:29:31 <timeless_mbp> achipa: possibly
Feb 19 11:30:01 <Khertan> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ <-- down too
Feb 19 11:30:14 <Khertan> satmd: ...
Feb 19 11:30:20 <Khertan> satmd: not for me
Feb 19 11:30:29 <Khertan> and at home too
Feb 19 11:30:38 <achipa> Khertan: works for me, too
Feb 19 11:30:54 <Khertan> so .... fucking country cache akaima system
Feb 19 11:31:48 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 11:31:55 <achipa> timeless_mbp: ah, they corrected it... *almost* :) http://www.callingallinnovators.com/rules.aspx (ctrl-f for 2009)
Feb 19 11:31:57 <Khertan> thx for verifying
Feb 19 11:32:35 <crashanddie> looks up to me
Feb 19 11:32:41 * crashanddie waves @ keras 
Feb 19 11:32:43 <crashanddie> damn
Feb 19 11:32:49 * crashanddie waves @ Khertan 
Feb 19 11:33:32 <crashanddie> Khertan: fait chier ton pseudo a la con, quelle idee d'aller mettre un H la dedans. Tout ca pour tricher au scrabble :P
Feb 19 11:33:35 <sejo> timeless_mbp: can't even find the press release *grin*
Feb 19 11:33:41 <Khertan> héhé
Feb 19 11:34:07 <crashanddie> Khertan: a ce propos, on a une nana dans le chan... parisienne apparemment
Feb 19 11:34:15 <Khertan> tu sais comment je l'ai trouvé ? une jetté de main sur clavier ... déplacer quelques lettre ... pour avoir 0 résultat dans google
Feb 19 11:34:27 <crashanddie> mdr
Feb 19 11:35:06 <crashanddie> bha je crois que c'est loupe
Feb 19 11:35:09 <crashanddie> t'en as 44k
Feb 19 11:35:16 <Khertan> bah maintenant oui
Feb 19 11:35:23 <Khertan> c'etait il y a 4 ou 5 ans
Feb 19 11:35:35 <Khertan> bon ... ma femme m'appelle pour manger
Feb 19 11:35:42 <Khertan> @ tout a l'heure
Feb 19 11:36:03 <Mece> Sho_, is this yakuake for maemo something you'd be interested in helping out with
Feb 19 11:36:11 <crashanddie> Khertan: bon app
Feb 19 11:36:23 <Shrik3> merde!
Feb 19 11:36:28 <crashanddie> Khertan: bonne idee aussi, vait aller me trouver un truc a manger, peluche peluche!
Feb 19 11:37:55 <crashanddie> Shrik3: ?
Feb 19 11:38:27 <Shrik3> everything got all french all of a sudden
Feb 19 11:38:38 <Shrik3> and I exhausted my whole vocabulary
Feb 19 11:38:48 <Mece> hahaha
Feb 19 11:38:49 <timeless_mbp> cute
Feb 19 11:38:53 * timeless_mbp broke window manager
Feb 19 11:39:05 <jiajia> what language is that
Feb 19 11:39:09 <jiajia> something new in n900
Feb 19 11:39:10 <Mece> timeless_mbp, which one?
Feb 19 11:39:16 <timeless_mbp> os x
Feb 19 11:39:21 <timeless_mbp> or rather Expose
Feb 19 11:39:40 <jiajia> anything really raelly advanced feature
Feb 19 11:39:40 <Mece> timeless_mbp, right, mbp. Nice :)
Feb 19 11:39:54 <timeless_mbp> it thinks i want to work in expose mode
Feb 19 11:40:19 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp: press shift and reduce a screen to dock
Feb 19 11:40:26 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp: or press shift and launch dashboard
Feb 19 11:40:37 <jiajia> alright that looks cool
Feb 19 11:40:50 <jiajia> what is the latest version for maemo
Feb 19 11:40:51 <jiajia> guys
Feb 19 11:41:06 <timeless_mbp> still broken
Feb 19 11:41:11 <jiajia> seriously the one i have right now seem not the best
Feb 19 11:41:36 <Sho_> Mece: Sure, sadly I can't afford an N900 however so my ability to test it is limited
Feb 19 11:43:27 <jiajia> anyone see my talking
Feb 19 11:43:33 <jiajia> lol
Feb 19 11:43:35 <crashanddie> no
Feb 19 11:43:48 <jiajia> i am asking if there is a new version for maemo
Feb 19 11:43:49 <Mece> Sho_, cool :) we'll talk about it later. I'm at finnish metal expo today, so I don't have time to compile and such today.
Feb 19 11:43:57 <an0therb0x1> how do i configure navit for the n900 ?
Feb 19 11:44:04 <crashanddie> jiajia: and we don't have to respond ;) You could just search
Feb 19 11:44:13 <achipa> jiajia: 3.2010.02-8
Feb 19 11:44:24 <crashanddie> jiajia: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44650
Feb 19 11:44:29 <jiajia> cause the one i have is alwayas like crash
Feb 19 11:44:36 <jiajia> shut down automatically
Feb 19 11:45:32 <Sho_> Mece: You'll have to get ahold of some of the dependencies first anyhow (namely kdelibs and the konsole kpart)
Feb 19 11:47:40 <Mece> Sho_, heh yeah, I didn't think porting it was something that would get done while I'm here at mcdonalds :)
Feb 19 11:47:59 <Mece> I'm off. toodles.
Feb 19 11:48:04 <Sho_> Mece: oh I've written fine code and McD before ;)
Feb 19 11:48:08 <Sho_> *at
Feb 19 12:04:48 <hrw> morning
Feb 19 12:05:12 <lcuk> mornin hrw
Feb 19 12:14:42 <hrw> nokia decided - calendar app will remain closed for maemo5 and meego
Feb 19 12:14:44 <hrw> crap
Feb 19 12:16:28 <zaheerm> hrw, same calendar backend to be used in meego?
Feb 19 12:17:18 <hrw> zaheerm: no idea
Feb 19 12:17:33 <hrw> zaheerm: meego so far is black hole when it comes to software
Feb 19 12:19:14 <bva> so meeGo != completly open
Feb 19 12:19:19 <bva> ?
Feb 19 12:19:53 <Pavlov> time to create the open fork, and not very good car sounding, youGo
Feb 19 12:19:53 <hrw> bva: this is nokia - you thought that there will be no closed apps?
Feb 19 12:20:55 <bva> hrw: maybe I was thinking wishfully
Feb 19 12:21:37 <bva> I mean; whats the advantage of keeping it closed?
Feb 19 12:21:54 <bva> Than I might as well buy Android
Feb 19 12:22:36 <vesa> the platform is open, not all the applications are open?
Feb 19 12:22:46 <Corsac> hrw: http://repo.meego.com/trunk/repo/source/
Feb 19 12:22:51 <Corsac> hrw: that's a start :)
Feb 19 12:22:57 <GeneralAntilles> bva, Android is more locked down as a platform.
Feb 19 12:22:57 <X-Fade> Yes. Google apps aren't open on android either.
Feb 19 12:23:09 <oly> i have to say i really like the current interface so hope they dont change to much
Feb 19 12:23:34 <X-Fade> The base will be open, but what that base consists of is unknown atm.
Feb 19 12:23:46 <hrw> Corsac: thats moblin source dump
Feb 19 12:23:58 <bva> X-Fade: In my opinion calendar = base
Feb 19 12:24:01 <Corsac> hrw: yes
Feb 19 12:24:03 <glass> bva: remember to buy a google certified android device to access appstore
Feb 19 12:24:06 <hrw> X-Fade: console-image probably + base x11
Feb 19 12:24:16 <Corsac> hrw: which will be Meego base system
Feb 19 12:24:17 <X-Fade> hrw: And qt ;)
Feb 19 12:25:00 <GeneralAntilles> bva, not a generally widely accepted definition.
Feb 19 12:25:14 <hrw> Corsac: sure, but this does not have any maemo components yet
Feb 19 12:26:25 <Corsac> hrw: no but we can assume the “meego-common” parts will be opened (I do). But that does not mean the “vendor parts” will be as opened
Feb 19 12:27:37 <hrw> I think that we need to wait 2-3 months to check how it will go. for now it is unclear what will be done and how.
Feb 19 12:28:35 <hrw> as for now one thing was done: nokia + intel discussed/announced/presented one server with website/mailinglist. nothing more
Feb 19 12:32:04 * w00t_ cries over the mailing list going around in yet another circle
Feb 19 12:33:17 <hrw> so I am waiting for code, test images (for beagleboard or n900 or qemu), howtos etc
Feb 19 12:37:16 <Stskeeps> The Mer project - just a bunch of redshirts?, http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mer-project-just-bunch-of-redshirts.html
Feb 19 12:37:50 <Corsac> nice shirts :)
Feb 19 12:39:57 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, s/get away with/get away from/
Feb 19 12:40:21 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, "get away with" means the opposite of what you intend. ;)
Feb 19 12:40:45 <Stskeeps> 2edited
Feb 19 12:41:11 <GeneralAntilles> Also: s/done with separating/done by separating/
Feb 19 12:41:26 <hrw> Stskeeps: nice post
Feb 19 12:41:36 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, hell, just re-read the damn thing. :D
Feb 19 12:43:49 <lcuk> Stskeeps, these shirts - tracy keeps telling me they are like stag-do shirts
Feb 19 12:46:21 <Stskeeps> lcuk: hehe
Feb 19 12:51:51 <Shrik3> so the Mer project people will start porting Meego for 770 & N8x0?
Feb 19 12:52:12 <Stskeeps> N900 if not happening officially, N8x0 if it is feasible.
Feb 19 12:52:19 <Shrik3> ok
Feb 19 12:52:23 <Stskeeps> 770 you have to be demented to start with
Feb 19 12:52:24 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 19 12:53:55 <hrw> 770 is device which should not be released
Feb 19 12:54:28 <X-Fade> I disagree. It worked nicely for me at the time.
Feb 19 12:54:29 <GeneralAntilles> hrw, oh, hush.
Feb 19 12:54:35 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, very much agreed.
Feb 19 12:54:44 <GeneralAntilles> I carried it with me everywhere until I got my N800.
Feb 19 12:54:56 <GeneralAntilles> It's not a perfect device, no, but it worked great at the time.
Feb 19 12:55:19 <glass> 770 had brilliant browsing for it's time
Feb 19 12:55:55 <glass> and worked out of the box with bluetooth nokia phones to get online with no fuss. much less fuss than with a zaurus and bt-sd card anyways
Feb 19 12:56:47 * Arif yawns
Feb 19 12:57:18 <Myrtti> worked better to get online than linux in general at the time of the release of it
Feb 19 12:57:41 <GeneralAntilles> Too bad ICD doesn't have the lead it used to.
Feb 19 12:57:48 <Stskeeps> ICD is still superior in some areas
Feb 19 12:57:48 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 19 12:57:49 <Myrtti> network-manager was in Ubuntu with 6.06
Feb 19 12:58:16 <Arif> people actually bought 770s? :P
Feb 19 12:58:38 <GeneralAntilles> Arif, 50,000 of them.
Feb 19 12:58:50 <GeneralAntilles> and it was a damn fine piece of equipment at the time.
Feb 19 12:59:12 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I wonder if Nokia will end up switching to conman.
Feb 19 12:59:16 <Myrtti> I got mine for free from my old workplace when I left late 2007, I had used it for about a year before that
Feb 19 12:59:31 * GeneralAntilles pre-ordered.
Feb 19 12:59:38 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: in meego, probably
Feb 19 12:59:55 <hrw> Arif: I got mine from Nokia when n800 was released. 3 months later it was EOLed
Feb 19 13:00:17 <Arif> haha
Feb 19 13:00:25 <Arif> I was actually interested in the tablets
Feb 19 13:00:35 <Arif> but they had no GSM
Feb 19 13:00:50 <Arif> and it was too expensive for a toy :P
Feb 19 13:01:46 <GeneralAntilles> Arif, wasn't a toy.
Feb 19 13:02:08 * aquatix still loves his n810
Feb 19 13:02:32 <Myrtti> I use my N800 daily
Feb 19 13:02:44 <Myrtti> wonderful for surfing in bed and bath
Feb 19 13:02:59 <aquatix> bath hm?
Feb 19 13:03:00 <pillar_> and beyond :)
Feb 19 13:03:04 <aquatix> ghehe
Feb 19 13:03:13 <aquatix> i actually quite like the new mobile firefox btw
Feb 19 13:03:19 <Arif> you take your tablet to your bath?
Feb 19 13:03:21 <aquatix> as Tear kinda died
Feb 19 13:03:54 <rzr> Arif: the question would be , when does he leave his tablet ?
Feb 19 13:04:06 <Arif> Nokia added a new app to Ovi store \o/
Feb 19 13:04:26 <range> It's the small things ...
Feb 19 13:04:35 <pillar_> Arif: which one?
Feb 19 13:04:37 <rzr> Myrtti: ever tried surfing under the shower ? :)
Feb 19 13:04:40 <Arif> Firefox
Feb 19 13:04:42 <aquatix> rzr: i think Myrtti takes her tablet everywhere :)
Feb 19 13:04:55 <Myrtti> rzr: no
Feb 19 13:05:04 <Myrtti> aquatix: pretty much
Feb 19 13:05:08 <pillar_> Arif: oh ok, I noticed this panorama photo app as well
Feb 19 13:05:09 <Khertan> How it s possible that someone got this error :
Feb 19 13:05:09 <Khertan>  The package fails to install with error:  'Unable to create /opt/vectormine/data/block.ttf': No such file or directory
Feb 19 13:05:11 <aquatix> i used to, too
Feb 19 13:05:17 <sejo> what repo's should I enable in my sdk?
Feb 19 13:05:18 <Arif> that one was there for a while
Feb 19 13:05:26 <sejo> maemo5
Feb 19 13:05:27 <Arif> I installed it but haven't tried it out yet
Feb 19 13:05:30 <SpeedEvil> Arif: I must say that windows 7 was unexpected.
Feb 19 13:05:46 <Khertan> with http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/v/vectormine/vectormine_1.0.2-6_armel.deb
Feb 19 13:05:48 <Arif> SpeedEvil, o.o?
Feb 19 13:05:51 <GeneralAntilles> Why in the world is Fennec on the Ovi Store?
Feb 19 13:06:04 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles: because Ovi Sucks
Feb 19 13:06:04 <Arif> so more than 4 people will use it?
Feb 19 13:06:05 <aquatix> Khertan: maybe the dir isn't created yet?
Feb 19 13:06:16 <Khertan> aquatix it should be created
Feb 19 13:06:19 <Myrtti> GeneralAntilles: for the lulz?
Feb 19 13:06:20 <Khertan> by apt
Feb 19 13:06:21 <aquatix> odd
Feb 19 13:06:26 <Khertan> or dpkg
Feb 19 13:06:29 <Khertan> strange
Feb 19 13:06:29 <GeneralAntilles> Arif, Extras ships enabled out of the box. :)
Feb 19 13:06:38 <Arif> Firefox is in extras?
Feb 19 13:06:42 <GeneralAntilles> Myrtti, I guess, but I'm missing the joke, I think.
Feb 19 13:06:48 <GeneralAntilles> Wait, used to be.
Feb 19 13:06:53 <GeneralAntilles> But their build system is still fail.
Feb 19 13:07:03 <Arif> furryfox has its own repo I thought
Feb 19 13:07:18 <GeneralAntilles> It does, sadly.
Feb 19 13:07:27 <GeneralAntilles> Weird that they'd rather go Ovi than Extras.
Feb 19 13:07:39 <Arif> Ovi looked so empty :P
Feb 19 13:07:43 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Their packaging is broken beyond repair.
Feb 19 13:08:03 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: And they didn't want to invest any time in fixing it, so they dropped their binary crap over at Ovi.
Feb 19 13:08:38 <achipa> so it IS the 'if I can't pass in Extras I go to Ovi' :D
Feb 19 13:09:06 <Arif> I installed Candle today
Feb 19 13:09:10 <Corsac> is the bugtracker field required for promoting to testing?
Feb 19 13:09:13 <Arif> and didn't get what I was supposed to do with it ;(
Feb 19 13:09:19 <X-Fade> Corsac: yes.
Feb 19 13:09:21 <achipa> Corsac: yes
Feb 19 13:09:25 <Corsac> ok, thanks
Feb 19 13:09:33 <X-Fade> Corsac: Although it can be: mailto: too.
Feb 19 13:09:48 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, love it.
Feb 19 13:10:00 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, another demonstration of Ovi's awesome QA.
Feb 19 13:10:13 * GeneralAntilles can't wait until applications start getting submitted in earnest.
Feb 19 13:10:18 <Arif> Ovi has QA?
Feb 19 13:10:34 <achipa> Arif: no(t yet)
Feb 19 13:10:35 <X-Fade> 30 pages of PDF it seems.
Feb 19 13:10:44 <Arif> I downloaded those videos and they didn't play :P
Feb 19 13:10:45 <hrw> nokia has qa?
Feb 19 13:11:00 <Arif> they played on the PC though xD
Feb 19 13:11:17 <GeneralAntilles> Arif, the €50 fee?
Feb 19 13:11:34 <achipa> X-Fade: seems 'voluntary', as in there are packages that are in Ovi but clearly fail their own guidelines -> not enforced
Feb 19 13:12:00 <Arif> lets gather �50 and submit a fart app
Feb 19 13:12:06 <X-Fade> achipa: Commercial parties can have different deals it seems :)
Feb 19 13:12:11 <GeneralAntilles> "Hey, man, can't get past those lameoids over at maemo.org? We can help you out for a price. . . ."
Feb 19 13:12:36 <GeneralAntilles> I'm in favor of burning down Nokia's Ovi division.
Feb 19 13:12:45 <GeneralAntilles> They seem to be really good at dragging the rest of the company down.
Feb 19 13:12:48 <lcuk> why doesnt maemo.org adopt the same policy ;)
Feb 19 13:13:00 <lcuk> would give X-Fade some extra pennies :D
Feb 19 13:13:02 <GAN900> Which is saying something. . . .
Feb 19 13:13:15 <GAN900> lcuk, who says we haven't? :P
Feb 19 13:13:30 <Arif> ask Apple to open a Maemo category :p
Feb 19 13:13:33 <X-Fade> lcuk: You just aren't sharing in the money ;)
Feb 19 13:13:48 <lcuk> damn!
Feb 19 13:14:06 <achipa> X-Fade: I'm not sure if it's commercial... AFAIK Ovi store still does not allow the submission of ANY Maemo content. So whoever is in there went through other channels (as in talk/deal with honchos)
Feb 19 13:14:14 <Khertan> Hello ...
Feb 19 13:14:36 <X-Fade> achipa: Hehe, big companies are different from little developers.
Feb 19 13:14:56 <GAN900> Anybody poked at the PR1.1.1 apt yet?
Feb 19 13:14:58 <Khertan> X-Fade: Can i ask you to remove a package (in fact several) from extras-testing ?
Feb 19 13:15:04 <glass> little developers can acts as a big company though
Feb 19 13:15:07 <Khertan> X-Fade: all vectormine pacakge
Feb 19 13:15:17 * achipa nods
Feb 19 13:15:17 <X-Fade> Khertan: Just vote them down.
Feb 19 13:15:23 <sejo> is there a maemo channel for python?
Feb 19 13:15:31 <X-Fade> Khertan: When maintainer votes down it will be removed.
Feb 19 13:15:33 <Khertan> X-Fade: yeah ... ok
Feb 19 13:15:49 <Arif> hmm
Feb 19 13:15:49 <Khertan> X-Fade: didn't know
Feb 19 13:15:54 <lizardo> sejo: #pymaemo
Feb 19 13:15:56 <Khertan> X-Fade: great thing ... thx
Feb 19 13:16:01 <Arif> the "Flashlight" app broke in 2010 02 08 :(
Feb 19 13:16:07 <lizardo> sejo: or #pyside for PySide stuff
Feb 19 13:16:24 <lizardo> sejo: but discussing python here is fine too :)
Feb 19 13:16:25 <X-Fade> Khertan: I figured that if the maintainer doesn't believe in the package version, it should be removed ;)
Feb 19 13:16:46 <achipa> Arif: works for me
Feb 19 13:16:55 <Arif> what version are you using?
Feb 19 13:17:23 <achipa> Arif: 0.3-2
Feb 19 13:17:26 <Corsac> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? ^M
Feb 19 13:17:31 * Corsac *hates* scratchbox
Feb 19 13:17:32 <Arif> hmm
Feb 19 13:17:33 <Arif> weird
Feb 19 13:17:45 <Arif> the flashlight button doesn't appear anymore when I open the camera slider
Feb 19 13:17:51 <Khertan> X-Fade: great idea
Feb 19 13:17:53 <slonopotamus> so. history with broken usb connector continues. 1. nokia care says it doesn't have info to tell whether it is a warranty case. 2. repair service said it is unlikely to be waranty case, though agreed to take it and gave estimation of 1 week (when it either says it's non-warranty or fixes it)
Feb 19 13:18:34 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: keep in mind the information may not have spread yet
Feb 19 13:19:04 <SpeedEvil> Arif: did you reboot?
Feb 19 13:19:23 <Arif> I tried removing, the rebooting, and then reinstalling it
Feb 19 13:19:28 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, repair service explicitely told me they don't have bulletin on this problem (and yep, they searched in their db)
Feb 19 13:19:31 <Arif> then*
Feb 19 13:19:42 <RichiH> can the n900 save raw GPS data with photos for later location processing?
Feb 19 13:19:49 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: no
Feb 19 13:19:53 <RichiH> bleh
Feb 19 13:20:00 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: at least not in the sense of 'geotate'
Feb 19 13:20:05 <nidO> slonopotamus, you calling them or going into a store?
Feb 19 13:20:05 <RichiH> is anyone working on it? :)
Feb 19 13:20:11 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: it's impossible.
Feb 19 13:20:15 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: contribute to the thread then
Feb 19 13:20:18 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: the required hardware is not there.
Feb 19 13:20:25 <RichiH> SpeedEvil: my main concern is that i do not want wait for a fix when shooting a pic
Feb 19 13:20:39 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: having said that - if you have had a gps fix in the past little while - it's instant.
Feb 19 13:20:39 <slonopotamus> nidO, called nokia care by phone, gone to repair service by foot :)
Feb 19 13:20:47 <RichiH> SpeedEvil: it has a camera and a gps receiver -- what would be missing?
Feb 19 13:21:15 <nidO> tbh, go back to the repair service and take a printout of nokia's own announcement saying it's a warranty issue, and tell them to get the info they need directly while you wait
Feb 19 13:21:19 <RichiH> unless the gps unit is so walled-off that you can not get at the raw data
Feb 19 13:21:24 <w00t_> slonopotamus: go postal
Feb 19 13:21:26 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: the 'postprocess later' functionality in hardware requires the ability to record the raw incoming waveform.
Feb 19 13:21:27 <w00t_> always helps
Feb 19 13:21:39 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: Almost no GPSs do this.
Feb 19 13:21:50 <slonopotamus> nidO, i didn't see it in russian :/
Feb 19 13:21:52 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: and it's also patented.
Feb 19 13:22:23 <nidO> any of em speak english at the repair point?
Feb 19 13:22:43 <slonopotamus> nidO, w/e, they took my n900 annd said they'll be contactinng nokia to decide what to do.
Feb 19 13:22:51 <slonopotamus> nidO, unlikely.
Feb 19 13:23:03 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: also - you can take picture - and then it will acquire the geotags
Feb 19 13:23:46 <GAN900> Nokia Care . . . doesn't
Feb 19 13:24:44 <slonopotamus> GAN900, yeah, i thought smth like that :)
Feb 19 13:27:29 <RichiH> SpeedEvil: nothing of which is as good as just saving the raw dump :p
Feb 19 13:27:34 <RichiH> but thanks nonetheless :)
Feb 19 13:27:51 <slonopotamus> anyone has a link to nokia announce on usb problem? can't google it
Feb 19 13:28:17 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: find it on the thread
Feb 19 13:28:20 <Stskeeps> there's a link to the forums
Feb 19 13:28:23 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: in some ways, yes. It might in principle be possible with the hardware - but there are no docs - and the bit that talks to the GPS is in the modem. So...
Feb 19 13:28:46 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, meh, there are 63 pages.
Feb 19 13:28:58 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: in the end of it
Feb 19 13:28:58 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 19 13:28:58 <wolf^> GeneralAntilles, "Hey, man, can't get past those lameoids over at maemo.org? We can help you out for a price. . . ."
Feb 19 13:29:00 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: as a datapoint - I last used the GPS yesterday. I just took a pic - with network positioning enabled - indoors - and got a satellite position in under 30s.
Feb 19 13:29:21 <wolf^> GeneralAntilles, I guess it's better to pay for the ability to expose your application than to wait for "open" "community" response
Feb 19 13:29:30 <GeneralAntilles> wolf^, um?
Feb 19 13:29:42 <wolf^> GeneralAntilles, I'm waiting for 2 months for extras upload access and frankly, I don't give a damn anymore
Feb 19 13:29:44 <GeneralAntilles> wolf^, are you an SIO2 apologist?
Feb 19 13:29:48 <GeneralAntilles> wolf^, er?
Feb 19 13:29:55 <GeneralAntilles> and you haven't contacted anybody to follow up?
Feb 19 13:30:01 <wolf^> I have
Feb 19 13:30:17 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade's the person to talk to
Feb 19 13:30:20 <GeneralAntilles> have you talked to X-Fade?
Feb 19 13:30:25 <nidO> slonopotamus - post 12 - http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-Devices/Nokia-responds-to-reports-about-the-N900-micro-usb-port-getting/td-p/629019
Feb 19 13:30:49 <wolf^> GeneralAntilles, I have sent mails
Feb 19 13:31:03 <wolf^> GeneralAntilles, if I have to poke anybody on IRC, well, it only proves my point
Feb 19 13:31:12 <slonopotamus> nidO, thanks
Feb 19 13:31:47 <GeneralAntilles> wolf^, I realize it's frustrating, but most requests are processed within 48 hours on weekdays.
Feb 19 13:31:50 <gilo> hi folks
Feb 19 13:31:50 <GeneralAntilles> Usually less
Feb 19 13:32:16 <wolf^> GeneralAntilles, I've sent the first mail in december
Feb 19 13:32:19 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: A mail to -developers will do.
Feb 19 13:33:09 <RichiH> SpeedEvil: i despise a-gps and do not want to rely on network-assisted gps
Feb 19 13:33:23 <slonopotamus> nidO, lol. under certain conditions.
Feb 19 13:34:08 <nidO> well yeah, theyre obviously going to quantify it, that first post was only the initial comment though, its post 12 that confirms detatched usb ports are warranty issues
Feb 19 13:34:22 <nidO> presumably unless there're obvious signs of significant abuse
Feb 19 13:34:34 <woglinde> wow
Feb 19 13:34:44 <woglinde> installing ubuntu on an viliv ex70
Feb 19 13:35:12 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: it takes - without network positioning enabled - only a few seconds to lock - if you've used it in the last few hours.
Feb 19 13:35:26 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: also - tehre are various sorts of network assist.
Feb 19 13:35:27 <RichiH> or, to be more exact, i really like the initial a-gps -- towers set up across europe that improve accuracy
Feb 19 13:35:41 <slonopotamus> nidO, also, 'very limited number'. they fixed in in newer devices?
Feb 19 13:35:46 <RichiH> but the 'modern' a-gps fails as soon as you leave your home country
Feb 19 13:35:59 <SpeedEvil> there is the phone-network-assist - and then there is asking supl.nokia.com for help
Feb 19 13:36:02 <nidO> no idea, but going by t.m.o there arent really a whole lot of people reporting it
Feb 19 13:36:14 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: agps is a term that covers _LOTS_ of shit
Feb 19 13:36:14 <RichiH> SpeedEvil: my use case is to not use gps for a few weeks and then snap the photo
Feb 19 13:36:20 <RichiH> SpeedEvil: i know
Feb 19 13:36:24 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: right - that's not gonna work.
Feb 19 13:36:27 <RichiH> most of which is, literally, shit :p
Feb 19 13:36:39 <RichiH> SpeedEvil: my point exactly
Feb 19 13:36:55 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: if you get a GPS signal when charging - that would be a trivial fix
Feb 19 13:39:51 <RichiH> SpeedEvil: oh, can the n900 switch on gps while charging automagically?
Feb 19 13:39:51 <crashanddie> oh for fuck's sake someone TELL BENNY1967 TO FUCKING PISS THE HELL OFF
Feb 19 13:40:03 <crashanddie> sorry
Feb 19 13:40:09 <RichiH> 14:40:22 [freenode] -!- There is no such nick BENNY1967
Feb 19 13:40:11 <slonopotamus> nidO, oh, yep, just 11% in that post
Feb 19 13:40:14 <RichiH> also, temper ;)
Feb 19 13:40:21 <crashanddie> RichiH: nha, on tmo
Feb 19 13:40:30 <nidO> slonopotamus - 11%?
Feb 19 13:40:34 <pillar_> is talk real slow for all? aren't these servers suppose to be fast now?
Feb 19 13:40:36 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: not by default
Feb 19 13:40:37 <RichiH> that would be talk.maemo.org?
Feb 19 13:41:00 <RichiH> SpeedEvil: if there is a way that does not impact stability and battery life, i am fine with that
Feb 19 13:41:10 <slonopotamus> nidO, 11.97% :P poll in t.m.o. post
Feb 19 13:41:14 <X-Fade> wolf^: But tell me. What is the problem you are experiencing?
Feb 19 13:41:20 <pillar_> RichiH: yep
Feb 19 13:41:42 <nidO> slonopotamus - which means the actual % is way lower most likely, as the vast majority of people without problems will never see/read/vote in that post
Feb 19 13:41:58 <nidO> whereas probably 100% of people who do have a problem and use tmo ever will be voting
Feb 19 13:44:29 <nidO> hm, anyone have any experience of generating evopedia wiki dumps?
Feb 19 13:45:53 <SpeedEvil> RichiH: as a 0th cut - start osm2go when when battery is charging. I can't see a script easily hackable
Feb 19 13:46:23 <cehteh> ho
Feb 19 13:48:35 <GeneralAntilles> I always get the feeling that people who "hate" mailing lists are doing it wrong.
Feb 19 13:49:13 * cehteh hates web-forums
Feb 19 13:49:27 <Corsac> hhmh, no linux-libc-dev in sdk?
Feb 19 13:49:58 * SpeedEvil hates some web forums for content - and others for style. And all of them for having only one client and no backup.
Feb 19 13:50:00 <cehteh> should be installed by default ..
Feb 19 13:50:24 <cehteh> having only one not perfectly working client
Feb 19 13:51:45 <Arif> hmm
Feb 19 13:51:52 <Arif> how do you zoom in and out in VNC viewer :o
Feb 19 13:52:02 <Arif> and right click :blush:
Feb 19 13:52:20 <lcuk> Arif, only vnc into a mac ;)
Feb 19 13:52:34 <cehteh> haha
Feb 19 13:52:39 <Arif> Macs don't need zooming ? :P
Feb 19 13:53:21 <cehteh> vnc cant zoom iirc .. tightvnc can be started with some fixed scaling factor thats all
Feb 19 13:53:34 <lcuk> Arif, then put an enhancement request in for swirly zoom :D aSIMULAtor might know who to request
Feb 19 13:53:35 <gilo> what abount rsap?
Feb 19 13:54:27 <cehteh> while, with a compositing window manager zooming should be (relative easy) possible .. but well
Feb 19 13:55:00 <slonopotamus> so. did anyone get usb connector fixed?
Feb 19 13:55:01 <slonopotamus> (yep, i'm reading through 63 pages of relevant post)
Feb 19 13:55:11 <Arif> hmm
Feb 19 13:55:15 <Arif> so no right click? :p
Feb 19 13:55:51 <Arif> it's kinda hard clicking the tray icons even with the stylus ={
Feb 19 13:56:54 <X-Fade> Arif: tap and hold?
Feb 19 13:57:46 * Arif will try
Feb 19 13:58:15 * crashanddie cries http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=536562&postcount=94
Feb 19 13:58:44 <frals> loving the badoo mail to maemo-dev ml
Feb 19 13:59:03 <lcuk> why does tmo show single posts centred
Feb 19 13:59:16 <lcuk> it looks like badly written poetry
Feb 19 13:59:19 <w00t_> lcuk: to make you ask that question
Feb 19 13:59:20 <w00t_> :)
Feb 19 13:59:25 * Arif blinks
Feb 19 13:59:56 <Arif> you can use Meego on desktops now?
Feb 19 13:59:57 <Arif> :D
Feb 19 14:00:16 <crashanddie> Arif: he's talking about moblin
Feb 19 14:00:47 <Arif> ah ok
Feb 19 14:01:05 <Arif> I hadn't heard of moblin untill it was merged with maemo :$
Feb 19 14:02:14 <Khertan> ds;jfsldfj sldkf sùd fksdf! s  dS sdF lkdsjf !! ! FUCK ! i ve scratched /usr/bin on my n900
Feb 19 14:02:21 <Khertan> stupid packaging tool !
Feb 19 14:02:40 <Arif> lol, what?
Feb 19 14:02:42 <thresh> now now
Feb 19 14:02:54 <crashanddie> RichiH: here, parse this: "Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to go want to do look more like?"
Feb 19 14:02:55 <Arif> stop touching stuff you're not supposed to!
Feb 19 14:03:16 <Khertan> Arif: gniagniagnia ... there is a bug in pypackage
Feb 19 14:03:19 <Khertan> pypackager
Feb 19 14:03:28 <Khertan> as the maintainer ... maybe i should fix it :)
Feb 19 14:03:37 <Khertan> and also try before :)
Feb 19 14:03:49 <Arif> pff companies don't fix their bugs
Feb 19 14:03:51 <Arif> so why should you!
Feb 19 14:04:02 <Khertan> i blame pypackager ... and his stupid developpers !
Feb 19 14:04:04 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:04:12 <pillar_> Arif: ctrl-tap?
Feb 19 14:04:18 <danielwilms> for everybody in and around helsinki: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mobile_Dev_Camp_2010
Feb 19 14:04:28 <Khertan> Arif: ah yes ... now that i ve my own companiy i can now stop fixing bugs
Feb 19 14:04:39 <Khertan> Arif: good advice !
Feb 19 14:04:40 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:04:45 <RichiH> crashanddie: parse error, please check your syntax :) -- next!
Feb 19 14:05:03 <Arif> Khertan, blame it on the user :D
Feb 19 14:05:21 <Arif> pillar_, the ctrl on the keyboard or the buttons at the bottom?
Feb 19 14:05:23 <Khertan> the user is me for the moment
Feb 19 14:05:24 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:05:33 * slonopotamus wonders what is average n900 usb connector lifetime
Feb 19 14:05:49 <lcuk> slonopotamus, mine have never broken
Feb 19 14:06:00 <lcuk> and im shoving it in and out all the time
Feb 19 14:06:03 <crashanddie> slonopotamus: same here
Feb 19 14:06:25 <Arif> I keep poking in the usb cable when I hear a song I want on my phone
Feb 19 14:06:29 <Khertan> slonopotamus: same here ... no care
Feb 19 14:06:33 <Arif> I'm afraid the battery'll die before the USB port :P
Feb 19 14:06:47 <Khertan> lol
Feb 19 14:07:09 <lcuk> the only concern ive ever had with a nokia device was that my n810 touchscreen started to fade after extensive over abuse
Feb 19 14:07:27 <RST38h> <YAWN>
Feb 19 14:07:32 <hrw> re
Feb 19 14:07:38 <w00t_> I've always been careful with my precious
Feb 19 14:07:38 <Khertan> did you use screen protector on your n900 ?
Feb 19 14:07:41 <lcuk> hey RST38h
Feb 19 14:07:43 <Arif> I miss my N91's headphone quality :P
Feb 19 14:07:45 <RST38h> heya lcuk, hrw, khertan
Feb 19 14:07:48 <w00t_> I polish it every day, and it has a case and a screen protector <3
Feb 19 14:07:51 <lcuk> Khertan, not got one on any of  my devices
Feb 19 14:07:51 * thresh waves
Feb 19 14:08:01 <thresh> 52 minutes to go.. eh.
Feb 19 14:08:02 <Khertan> i'm careful with the ddp one ... not the loaned one :)
Feb 19 14:08:13 <lcuk> RST38h, did you see the post about xchat plugin thing from cehteh
Feb 19 14:08:26 <RST38h> yea
Feb 19 14:08:26 <Arif> Khertan, my N900 dangles around my neck when I'm outside :P
Feb 19 14:08:29 <w00t_> Khertan: <-- full retail price :P
Feb 19 14:08:34 <RST38h> wil integrate on the next release
Feb 19 14:08:55 <RST38h> Arif: isn't it a bit heavy for that?
Feb 19 14:08:55 <Arif> with no screen protector :D
Feb 19 14:09:01 <Arif> no
Feb 19 14:09:06 <Khertan> no case, no screen protector, directly in the jean's pocket
Feb 19 14:09:06 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:09:20 <lcuk> do you store other stuff in that pocket tho
Feb 19 14:09:20 <RST38h> thresh: and then... ?
Feb 19 14:09:23 <Khertan> (but i didn't do that with the ddp n900)
Feb 19 14:09:24 <lcuk> or is it your n900 pocket
Feb 19 14:09:31 <thresh> RST38h: FRIIIIIIIDAAAAAAY NIIIIIIIIGHTTTTTTTT
Feb 19 14:09:35 <Khertan> lcuk: nope only the n900 ... :)
Feb 19 14:09:36 <RST38h> ahhh
Feb 19 14:09:39 <lcuk> RST38h, great!
Feb 19 14:09:44 <Arif> I found out I can change the songs in media player with left/right arrow
Feb 19 14:09:49 <Khertan> i m not fool enought to put also my keys :
Feb 19 14:09:51 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:09:52 <Arif> so I don't have to poke at the screen randomly to change music :D
Feb 19 14:09:55 <lcuk> Khertan, then you have a special case
Feb 19 14:10:01 <lcuk> it just happens to double as clothing
Feb 19 14:10:07 <Khertan> héhé
Feb 19 14:10:10 <RST38h> thresh: snowstorm - CHECK; traffic jam - CHECK; ...
Feb 19 14:10:17 <oly> I have just got my n900 recently been considering enabling the developers repo any thoughts ?
Feb 19 14:10:24 * SpeedEvil wonders what the market would be for a snug-right-angle USB connector
Feb 19 14:10:30 <oly> my main concern is screwing up my phone
Feb 19 14:10:30 <lcuk> oly, if you are a developer yeah
Feb 19 14:10:30 <thresh> RST38h: i'm outside of Moscow anyway
Feb 19 14:10:31 <crashanddie> oly: define "developers repo"
Feb 19 14:10:41 <RST38h> oly: How valiant!
Feb 19 14:10:44 <crashanddie> oly: if you're talking about Maemo-devel, no, don't
Feb 19 14:10:45 <oly> is it easy to reinstall a phone ?
Feb 19 14:10:49 <thresh> RST38h: and will probably move in Moscow center, not suburbs
Feb 19 14:11:01 <crashanddie> oly: maemo testing, maybe, if you feel like giving feedback to developers
Feb 19 14:11:06 <RST38h> thresh: traffic jam then
Feb 19 14:11:09 <oly> yeah i have testing
Feb 19 14:11:14 <lcuk> oly, yeah, you can reflash anytime, take regular backups of your settings and stuff
Feb 19 14:11:22 <lcuk> and you can be back where you were in no time :P
Feb 19 14:11:31 <oly> i have been using linux for years on desktops and servers
Feb 19 14:11:42 <thresh> RST38h: yaprobki say it's pretty much OK to move from Korolev
Feb 19 14:11:51 <Khertan> ok i ve dput vectormine_1.0.3-1 to the extras-devel repository ... someone can try to install it in ten minutes ...
Feb 19 14:11:58 <Khertan> to say me if it s works ?
Feb 19 14:11:59 <lcuk> then as with any new apps you install watch for how they sit with your current running system
Feb 19 14:11:59 <oly> i know i can restore a desktop but no idea where to start if the phone goes wrong
Feb 19 14:12:06 <Khertan> as it s works on my two device
Feb 19 14:12:26 <Arif> Khertan, what is it ;o
Feb 19 14:12:52 <oly> I love playing with cutting edge and am considering porting a daap server
Feb 19 14:13:01 <Khertan> Arif: http://khertan.net/softwares_en.html
Feb 19 14:13:16 <Arif> oo
Feb 19 14:13:17 <Arif> games!
Feb 19 14:13:22 * Arif installs
Feb 19 14:13:45 <Khertan> Arif: http://khertan.net/softwares_en.html
Feb 19 14:13:49 <oly> if i can reflash it should be fine, i just want to know i cant brick / lock myself out of the phone completely
Feb 19 14:13:53 <Khertan> arg wrong second link
Feb 19 14:14:02 <oly> as at the end of the day i do need a working phone
Feb 19 14:14:04 <matthew-> ok i deleted a number and messages from this number by mistake
Feb 19 14:14:06 <Khertan> Arif : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VYHi5pxjas
Feb 19 14:14:07 <Corsac> Khertan: are extras-devel buildds working?
Feb 19 14:14:11 <matthew-> any chance i can 'find' it somewhere?
Feb 19 14:14:21 <Arif> 1 euro eh
Feb 19 14:14:23 <Arif> ;p
Feb 19 14:14:25 <Khertan> Arif: wait a bit ... it s ll be available in extras devel in ten minutes
Feb 19 14:14:28 <Khertan> Arif: yep :)
Feb 19 14:14:36 <matthew-> anywhere?:D
Feb 19 14:14:41 <Khertan> if i gain enough i ll make other game
Feb 19 14:14:46 <matthew-> there should be some traces of it! :D
Feb 19 14:14:51 <Arif> I have no paypal
Feb 19 14:14:51 <Khertan> else ... come back to my geek stuff
Feb 19 14:14:54 <Arif> -.-
Feb 19 14:15:03 <matthew-> no?
Feb 19 14:15:15 <matthew-> ;]
Feb 19 14:15:18 <lcuk> matthew-, you find them then - its not something ive seen people ask for before
Feb 19 14:15:24 <Khertan> Arif: paypal isn't mandatory ... it s also work with bluecard :)
Feb 19 14:15:26 <lcuk> if oyu do find a way, document it
Feb 19 14:15:37 <Arif> I only have a bank card ;P
Feb 19 14:15:40 <matthew-> lcuk: well if i would be able to do it, i wouldn't ask now, would I ?
Feb 19 14:15:52 <Khertan> Arif: as ovistore isn't open yet ... this is the only method i ve
Feb 19 14:16:00 <lcuk> hence "if you do find a way"
Feb 19 14:16:01 <Khertan> Arif: works with bank card too
Feb 19 14:16:05 <Khertan> but try it before
Feb 19 14:16:07 <lcuk> -tyops ofc
Feb 19 14:16:11 <Arif> cool
Feb 19 14:16:13 <VDVsx> aahha, the firefox animation/video is very cool -> http://maemo.nokia.com/firefox/
Feb 19 14:16:15 <Arif> then I'll buy it
Feb 19 14:16:16 <lcuk> -typos ofc
Feb 19 14:16:18 <Arif> when it comes out
Feb 19 14:16:23 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:16:28 <Khertan> currently still in testing
Feb 19 14:16:34 <Khertan> the games is working
Feb 19 14:16:38 <Khertan> the packaging not :)
Feb 19 14:16:41 <Arif> lol
Feb 19 14:16:49 <Khertan> the pacakaging tool less :)
Feb 19 14:16:51 <Arif> I was going to buy the sio2interactive games
Feb 19 14:16:55 <Arif> but they were so boring :P
Feb 19 14:17:06 <Khertan> there is so many bug in pypackage
Feb 19 14:17:08 <Khertan> there is so many bug in pypackager
Feb 19 14:17:14 <Khertan> Arif: really ?
Feb 19 14:17:20 <Arif> yea
Feb 19 14:17:22 <Arif> :(
Feb 19 14:17:38 <Khertan> i'm not someone that believe beautifull graphism is required to made a good game
Feb 19 14:17:51 <pillar_> danielwilms: any idea how long the event will last?
Feb 19 14:17:56 <N900evil> nethack++
Feb 19 14:18:10 <Khertan> N900evil: for example !
Feb 19 14:18:10 * Arif doesn't care about graphics either
Feb 19 14:18:24 <Arif> I'd like monkey ball ported though :P
Feb 19 14:18:56 <oly> may be possible to port neverball
Feb 19 14:19:13 <danielwilms> pillar_: just the saturday, until the late evening
Feb 19 14:19:32 <oly> which is very similar to monkey ball
Feb 19 14:19:49 <pillar_> danielwilms: ok, how late though, thinking if it fits to my schedule
Feb 19 14:19:52 * Khertan is thinking of making some Vectrex game port :)
Feb 19 14:20:03 <VDVsx> danielwilms, ahh, shame, I really enjoy these kind of contests :D
Feb 19 14:21:00 <danielwilms> pillar_ plan until around 6 or 7 in the evening
Feb 19 14:21:29 <danielwilms> VDVsx looking forward to seeing the results :)
Feb 19 14:21:45 <lcuk> danielwilms, if the competition is is 48hours but the event is 1 day
Feb 19 14:21:49 <lcuk> how do you contro lit
Feb 19 14:21:54 <pillar_> danielwilms: ok
Feb 19 14:22:08 <pillar_> yeah when is the coding supposed to achieved
Feb 19 14:22:17 <lcuk> time dilation
Feb 19 14:22:17 <danielwilms> lcuk you don't know what to code until Thursday
Feb 19 14:22:25 <lcuk> o_O cool
Feb 19 14:22:46 <danielwilms> at 17:00
Feb 19 14:23:08 <lcuk> does it have to be qt? :D
Feb 19 14:23:13 <VDVsx> danielwilms, will you give some talk about maemo there ?
Feb 19 14:23:25 <danielwilms> lcuk yep
Feb 19 14:23:29 * lcuk reads more lol
Feb 19 14:23:50 <Stskeeps> what's event now? :P
Feb 19 14:23:53 <lcuk> ahh danielwilms something else just remembered
Feb 19 14:24:12 <VDVsx> Stskeeps, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mobile_Dev_Camp_2010
Feb 19 14:24:14 <danielwilms> VDVsx we will be there and demo things according to questions...is more Q&A thing
Feb 19 14:24:18 <Khertan> youhou ... PyPackager 3.0.9-1 uploadted to autobuilder
Feb 19 14:24:22 <Khertan> fix many bugs
Feb 19 14:24:32 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: ah
Feb 19 14:24:42 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: no way i'm going to helsinki when there's still snow ;)
Feb 19 14:24:55 <pillar_> danielwilms: workshops only showing iphone and android - are there maemo related stuff other than the competition?
Feb 19 14:25:17 <pillar_> Stskeeps: then you will have to wait for a while :) there's plenty right now
Feb 19 14:25:30 <Arif> http://store.ovi.com/content/26745?clickSource=homepage
Feb 19 14:25:32 <danielwilms> pillar_ I've sent it an hour ago to the guy...the discription will be there soon
Feb 19 14:25:37 <Arif> lolwhat
Feb 19 14:25:43 <pillar_> danielwilms: okay, cool
Feb 19 14:26:00 <pillar_> danielwilms: now it's showing nokia
Feb 19 14:26:00 <Arif> Nokia killed the English language!
Feb 19 14:26:15 <danielwilms> hehe...as we speak :D
Feb 19 14:26:17 <VDVsx> danielwilms, humm, ok, if is more student targeted could be good to advertise maemo@GSoC there, dunno but probably the GSoC stipend is very low for finns students :D
Feb 19 14:26:27 <Myrtti> no, I think it was Nokia and the Finnish national telecom company at the moment of inventing sms
Feb 19 14:26:37 <VDVsx> Stskeeps, yeah, you don't have snow in .pl :D
Feb 19 14:26:50 <Khertan> lol a competition for things running on n900
Feb 19 14:26:56 <Khertan> which talk only of QT
Feb 19 14:26:59 <Khertan> ... hum
Feb 19 14:27:03 <Khertan> what to say ...
Feb 19 14:27:04 <lcuk> danielwilms, so this is opened for people near helsinki, or can they be flown in
Feb 19 14:27:09 <danielwilms> VDVsx good idea
Feb 19 14:27:15 <Arif> maybe someone will port an N64 emulator :P
Feb 19 14:27:19 <pekuja> arh, why does OMWeather think I'm in Oulu?
Feb 19 14:27:42 <danielwilms> lcuk haha...whoever is present at the event :)
Feb 19 14:28:13 <lcuk> yeah but how would enthusiastic people from uk etc get there :P
Feb 19 14:29:12 <danielwilms> lcuk this the enthusiastic people from the UK have to figure out :)
Feb 19 14:29:28 * Khertan didn't understand how developpers can found QT Better
Feb 19 14:30:04 <Arif> Qt=more platforms=more money
Feb 19 14:30:07 <Arif> think of Java ;P
Feb 19 14:30:32 <ham5> boooo qt
Feb 19 14:30:34 <Khertan> Qt=more platforms <--- false
Feb 19 14:31:05 <Khertan> ok true now with symbian (but it s not a plateform for me)
Feb 19 14:31:10 <lcuk> lol danielwilms thats more of a puzzle
Feb 19 14:31:15 <Arif> symbian+maemo?
Feb 19 14:31:19 <danielwilms> Khertan what is your choice then?
Feb 19 14:31:34 <Khertan> danielwilms: currently pygtk
Feb 19 14:31:34 <sp3000> pekuja: well it is kind of in the middle isn't it? don't be so capital-area-centric :P
Feb 19 14:31:35 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:31:46 <Khertan> and i didn't see any interest on qt ...
Feb 19 14:32:00 <Arif> you could sell your app to so many million symbian users!
Feb 19 14:32:09 <Khertan> except the move from gtk to qt of maemo/meego plateform
Feb 19 14:32:25 <danielwilms> Khertan hehe...I love python...but since I've started with qt...what to say...never been faster and easier to implement things
Feb 19 14:32:34 <Khertan> really ... ?
Feb 19 14:32:51 <Khertan> i found s it s slower to do anythings usefull with qt
Feb 19 14:33:13 <Khertan> but i surely lack from qt knowledge
Feb 19 14:33:19 <oly> are they going to keep gtk support ?
Feb 19 14:33:37 <Khertan> they say community supported ...
Feb 19 14:33:42 <Khertan> so clearly no :)
Feb 19 14:33:49 <Khertan> say / said
Feb 19 14:34:06 <Arif> they should do it the google way
Feb 19 14:34:08 <zaheerm> except moblin ui uses gtk/clutter
Feb 19 14:34:09 <Arif> make everything java! :P
Feb 19 14:34:22 <Khertan> Arif: oh my god no
Feb 19 14:34:24 <pekuja> sp3000: I'm mostly where-i-actually-live-centric
Feb 19 14:34:36 <oly> i dont quite get that though clutter seems really powerful
Feb 19 14:34:37 <Khertan> and google android things ... is not java
Feb 19 14:34:45 <oly> can it be used with qt in the same way
Feb 19 14:35:06 <oly> or will it not be available
Feb 19 14:35:06 <danielwilms> Khertan give it a shot if you have a day for that...it just works...and I really defended python everywhere before...it's actually quite nice
Feb 19 14:35:30 <slonopotamus> okay
Feb 19 14:35:32 <satmd> Arif: either missing </sarkasm> or clearly ignoring that the java layer removes user's access to linux
Feb 19 14:35:49 <Arif> yeah it was sarcasm :(
Feb 19 14:35:51 <Khertan> danielwilms: you mean using python with qt ... as when you said : "and I really defended python everywhere before" i doubt
Feb 19 14:35:54 <w00t_> satmd: i think your sarcasm detection is disabled today
Feb 19 14:36:04 * satmd sysctls it to 1
Feb 19 14:36:10 * lcuk will also agree with qt improvements and streamlining things
Feb 19 14:36:13 <slonopotamus> official info from local nnokia representative: broken n900 usb connector _is_ a warranty case.
Feb 19 14:36:14 <sp3000> pekuja: there's some minor issues afaiui with country-level coarseness being used where it's less than appropriate, though I'm not sure which part to blame
Feb 19 14:36:19 <lizardo> danielwilms: if you like Python and Qt .... why not use both :)
Feb 19 14:36:20 <oly> I just hope that when it goes qt based it will still be able to run gtk/clutter apps
Feb 19 14:36:38 <w00t_> Khertan: I think you're the one I said I was willing to help with Qt, btw
Feb 19 14:36:41 * satmd notes that upnp support does not work with openvpn tunnels
Feb 19 14:36:44 <w00t_> (or one of the ones, rather)
Feb 19 14:36:50 <oly> especially so my gtk apps will run :p
Feb 19 14:36:51 <satmd> don't ask me why I ever tried :p
Feb 19 14:37:20 <danielwilms> I had a biiig project on the n810 and use django...but try plain qt..,you have nothing to lose ;)
Feb 19 14:37:36 <pekuja> sp3000: ok
Feb 19 14:37:39 <lcuk> Khertan, are yo ustill developing on the go
Feb 19 14:37:41 * slonopotamus hopes they'll do smth smarter than jjust solder it back
Feb 19 14:37:42 <w00t_> anyway, gtk isn't going anywhere, Qt just means you end up being more of a first class citizen and immune to changes in platform
Feb 19 14:37:47 <cehteh> RST38h: i am adding few things later today, but dont hold back the current version is ok, just when you package not later today fetch the new source or ask me about the state
Feb 19 14:37:47 <ali1234> i'm doing a project right now that uses django for the backend and PyQt4 for the front end
Feb 19 14:37:58 <tybollt> ugh fucking sounds issues on my 900 are worse than ever
Feb 19 14:38:00 <lcuk> if so, that may still e a blocker for you
Feb 19 14:38:02 <dev> satmd: upnp -> http://base-art.net/Articles/115/
Feb 19 14:38:03 * slonopotamus curses n800 for double clicks
Feb 19 14:38:04 <Khertan> w00t_: clear ... but i don't like it
Feb 19 14:38:06 <tybollt> god damn piece of shit this N900 :)
Feb 19 14:38:07 <satmd> 15:11:21 <@henk> /usr/include/bits/local_lim.h:39:26: error: linux/limits.h: No such file or directory
Feb 19 14:38:19 <satmd> eeeeeg
Feb 19 14:38:20 <Khertan> and using something i don't like most of the time means change of plateform
Feb 19 14:38:26 <pillar_> danielwilms: is it enough to tell about participation when the rules are posted online? is working on team of two gonna be accepted?
Feb 19 14:38:56 <lcuk> w00t_, "immune to changes"
Feb 19 14:38:56 <lopz> hi ;)
Feb 19 14:38:57 <w00t_> Khertan: if you'd like to go over your concerns with me sometime in private to avoid creating unnecessary noise here, I'd be happy to listen
Feb 19 14:39:20 <w00t_> Khertan: it's something I have a fair bit of interest in :)
Feb 19 14:39:31 <Khertan> no no no ... i didn't want to make noise
Feb 19 14:39:39 <danielwilms> pillar_: the list is just to know how much interest there is...
Feb 19 14:39:45 <w00t_> lcuk: yes, qtmobility, etc, as opposed to dealing with platform-specific API
Feb 19 14:39:55 <Khertan> i just trying to convince me to use qt
Feb 19 14:39:56 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:39:57 <danielwilms> so if you can imagine to participate, sign up
Feb 19 14:40:09 <danielwilms> pillar_: team of 2 is fine
Feb 19 14:40:18 <w00t_> Khertan: you misunderstand - I mean I'd be happy to talk to you, hear what worries you, and offer my knowledge to try help you out
Feb 19 14:40:24 <pillar_> danielwilms: ok thanks
Feb 19 14:40:40 <Khertan> w00t_: oh thanks
Feb 19 14:41:49 <w00t_> Stskeeps: ping
Feb 19 14:42:00 <Stskeeps> plonk
Feb 19 14:42:06 <w00t_> good, you're here, /msg
Feb 19 14:45:00 <Khertan> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.3-1/ <<< available in extras-devel
Feb 19 14:45:15 <Khertan> someone can say me if it works for him ?
Feb 19 14:45:59 <thresh> that's the package that ruins your /usr/bin ? kthx im out
Feb 19 14:49:05 <Khertan> thresh: i ve tested it before
Feb 19 14:49:06 <Khertan> lol
Feb 19 14:49:17 <Khertan> and not this wasn't this package
Feb 19 14:49:18 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:49:32 <mgedmin> anybody want to package bazaar for maemo?
Feb 19 14:49:33 <Khertan> but pypackager 3.0.9
Feb 19 14:55:56 <Corsac> Khertan: hhmhm, how comes your package is already available while mine is not and I've uploaded more or less at the same time? ><
Feb 19 14:56:00 <Khertan> Arif: vectormine 1.0.3-1 is available in extras-devel
Feb 19 14:56:15 * Arif will try it out
Feb 19 14:56:20 <Khertan> Corsac: you have uploaded to what ? when and where ?
Feb 19 14:56:30 <Khertan> auto builder ?
Feb 19 14:56:33 <Corsac> yeah
Feb 19 14:56:41 <Khertan> as vectormine was push to non-free
Feb 19 14:56:45 <Corsac> ha ok
Feb 19 14:56:47 <Khertan> is a binary package
Feb 19 14:57:02 <Khertan> but pypackager is still waiting in the auto builder queue
Feb 19 14:57:04 <Khertan> !=
Feb 19 14:57:04 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:57:13 <Corsac> is the queue visible?
Feb 19 14:57:21 <X-Fade> Khertan: No it isn't ;)
Feb 19 14:57:22 <Khertan> of course
Feb 19 14:57:26 <X-Fade> https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-February/date.html#end
Feb 19 14:57:36 <Khertan> i see that the refresh wasn't ok in my browser
Feb 19 14:57:37 <X-Fade> Yours was built already.
Feb 19 14:57:55 <Khertan> http://maemo.org/packages/repository/builds/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/all/ <<< better ui
Feb 19 14:58:42 <Corsac> Khertan: that's the built list, not the build queue :)
Feb 19 14:59:00 <Khertan> the build queue is on the small box on the right :
Feb 19 14:59:01 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 14:59:11 <Khertan> ah nope sorry
Feb 19 14:59:14 <Khertan> wrong link
Feb 19 14:59:36 <Khertan> https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/ <<< here on the box on the right the build queue
Feb 19 14:59:37 <Khertan> :)
Feb 19 15:00:13 <Khertan> s/on/in
Feb 19 15:00:14 <Corsac> which are empty atm?
Feb 19 15:00:31 <X-Fade> Corsac: Which package did you upload?
Feb 19 15:00:54 <Corsac> python-scapy and iproute
Feb 19 15:02:07 <X-Fade> Corsac: Scapy is waiting because the orig.tar.gz file is not there yet.
Feb 19 15:02:27 <Corsac> uh?
Feb 19 15:02:28 <Corsac> ha yes
Feb 19 15:02:42 <Corsac> I didn't built with -sa
Feb 19 15:02:58 <Corsac> though it kind-of thought as it was the maemo2 one the autobuilder would have it?
Feb 19 15:03:14 <X-Fade> Corsac: dir is cleaned every time.
Feb 19 15:03:23 <Corsac> nice
Feb 19 15:03:45 <Corsac> so I can upload an orig.tar.gz different each time?
Feb 19 15:04:11 <X-Fade> Corsac: yes
Feb 19 15:04:38 <Corsac> prft
Feb 19 15:04:55 <Corsac> hmmh, but uploading the orig.tar.gz only won't work, I'm dumb, it won't be in the .changes file
Feb 19 15:04:58 <RST38h> EU nuke boffins say that mysterious bits of uranium found last year in a Dutch scrapyard originated in the Nazi nuclear-weapons programme of the 1940s
Feb 19 15:05:11 <Corsac> I need to rebuild with -sa
Feb 19 15:24:10 <matthew-> ok, how to get back my deleted SMSes
Feb 19 15:24:11 <matthew-> ;d
Feb 19 15:26:23 <dazo> matthew-:  do you got glogarchive? ;-)
Feb 19 15:27:19 <matthew-> dazo: nope
Feb 19 15:27:59 <dazo> pity!
Feb 19 15:28:35 <matthew-> well it's on debian
Feb 19 15:28:40 <matthew-> there must be a way
Feb 19 15:33:35 <crashanddie> damn those europeans for always booking meetings in their timezones
Feb 19 15:34:17 <Jaffa> Bastards.
Feb 19 15:34:56 <tybollt> basterds!
Feb 19 15:34:57 <crashanddie> Jaffa: aye
Feb 19 15:35:03 <crashanddie> tybollt: YARRR
Feb 19 15:37:00 <crashanddie> anyway, I'm off to bed
Feb 19 15:37:46 <tybollt> cheers crash
Feb 19 15:37:54 <tybollt> ok everybody, my first thread on TMO
Feb 19 15:37:59 <matthew-> crashanddie: those bloody americans always book meetings in their time zones
Feb 19 15:38:00 <matthew-> ;>
Feb 19 15:38:03 <tybollt> jump over there and shout TROLL at me now!
Feb 19 15:38:12 <Corsac> ok, putting a mail in XSBC-Bugtracker doesn't exactly work fine with maemo.org package interface :)
Feb 19 15:38:12 <matthew-> and australians are never there.
Feb 19 15:38:16 <crashanddie> Jaffa: I've taken a night off coding. I'll probably get the portal into a usable state tomorrow or something
Feb 19 15:38:35 <wolf^> tybollt, "where do you come from"? :>
Feb 19 15:38:46 <crashanddie> Jaffa: GeneralAntilles had a few important feedback items he gave me yesterday
Feb 19 15:39:08 <matthew-> oh, and maybe you know if it's possible to retreived deleted messages?
Feb 19 15:39:16 <matthew-> frals: Or, actually you may know! :)
Feb 19 15:39:20 <crashanddie> hint is in the name
Feb 19 15:39:23 <crashanddie> "Deleted messages"
Feb 19 15:39:36 <matthew-> crashanddie: Or, just the number they were sent to...
Feb 19 15:40:01 <matthew-> there must be some log...
Feb 19 15:40:03 <tybollt> wolf^: that grey rock over there.
Feb 19 15:40:08 <matthew-> or from delivery reports...
Feb 19 15:40:14 <crashanddie> matthew-: no, there isn't as far as I'm aware
Feb 19 15:40:56 <matthew-> crashanddie: ok
Feb 19 15:44:32 <pupnik_> my media player still cant play new clips
Feb 19 15:45:16 <cpscotti> anyone there uses the Desktop Command Execution widget?
Feb 19 15:45:57 <Jaffa> crashanddie: cool
Feb 19 15:51:04 <V13> cpscotti: me
Feb 19 15:51:18 <wizkoder> moin
Feb 19 15:51:23 <cpscotti> V13: like it? using version 0.9 already?
Feb 19 15:51:59 <V13> i've the latest from extras-testing. yes I like it, even thought it has couse some hangs. It seems to trigger a bug.
Feb 19 15:52:31 <V13> I've this for a couple of days: 10212 user       560 D    sh -c uptime|cut -d" " -f4-|sed 's/\, *load.*//'
Feb 19 15:52:35 <cpscotti> ahh.. that one.. it hangs everything if you use the commands that lock right?
Feb 19 15:52:52 <V13> I had to kill the desktop to make it respond
Feb 19 15:53:03 <V13> lock ?
Feb 19 15:53:03 <cpscotti> wumm
Feb 19 15:53:23 <cpscotti> not lock.. but the desktop become unresponsive if the command doesn't respond..
Feb 19 15:53:31 <V13> yes.
Feb 19 15:53:35 <cpscotti> until the command times out or finishes
Feb 19 15:53:36 <V13> and in that case it completely locks
Feb 19 15:53:59 <V13> this command is in a bad state. seems like a kernel bug.
Feb 19 15:54:00 <cpscotti> this one for the uptime I wasn't aware
Feb 19 15:54:07 <V13> it's in "D" and can't be killed
Feb 19 15:54:17 <cpscotti> =/
Feb 19 15:54:39 <cpscotti> well... the commands itself I just took from the "community"/topic on talk.maemo.org
Feb 19 15:54:42 <V13> i've killed its parent (The home) to re-parent it to init in case hildon-home wasn't wait()ing for it, but no.. even with the init as parent it is stuck
Feb 19 15:55:09 <cpscotti> yeah.. pretty bad!
Feb 19 15:55:13 <V13> But that's not a problem of the app... it is most probably a kernel bug
Feb 19 15:55:20 <SpeedEvil> dbus question. dbus-monitor says '1266592952 signal sender=:1.277 -> dest=(null destination) serial=17 path=/com/nokia/location/las; interface=com.nokia.Location.Client; member=Method
Feb 19 15:55:21 <SpeedEvil> 1266592952    string "CWP" (ignore the timedstamp numbers)
Feb 19 15:55:23 <cpscotti> I see..
Feb 19 15:55:41 <SpeedEvil> I can't send this with dbus-send - as the destination is null. is this a 'broadcast' dbus message?
Feb 19 15:56:21 <cpscotti> V13: if you have some time.. give it your evaluation at garage.. let's put it in extras ... loooots of people are using it already...
Feb 19 15:56:47 <V13> yes.. i like it too.. however, it cause some hangs, even though it is not its fault.
Feb 19 15:57:56 <cpscotti> yep..
Feb 19 15:58:30 <cpscotti> the problem is linking the widget itself to *any* shell command.. then things get weird.. ehheahe
Feb 19 16:00:35 <V13> by linking you mean?
Feb 19 16:00:44 <cehteh> ... so finally
Feb 19 16:00:50 <cpscotti> not "linking" just executing..
Feb 19 16:00:59 <tybollt> fuck damnit
Feb 19 16:01:06 <tybollt> the audio problems are known
Feb 19 16:01:30 <tybollt> ~curse nokia crappy korean factory
Feb 19 16:01:31 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia crappy korean factory !
Feb 19 16:01:46 <V13> xaxa
Feb 19 16:02:02 <V13> (that was supposed to mean: lol)
Feb 19 16:02:12 <viukkis> i don't think that would improve the quality of their work
Feb 19 16:02:23 <tybollt> viukkis: :D
Feb 19 16:02:34 <V13> but it would improve customer satisfaction.
Feb 19 16:02:48 <tybollt> it would, it would imensely
Feb 19 16:04:42 <cehteh> lcuk: xchat plugin update
Feb 19 16:05:47 <cehteh> few new features including dialog throttling
Feb 19 16:07:53 <cpscotti> V13: thanks for the evaluation!
Feb 19 16:09:27 <V13> thanks for the app :)
Feb 19 16:18:28 <matthew-> ok, where are the messages saved?
Feb 19 16:18:35 <matthew-> i mean SMS / conversation messages
Feb 19 16:20:06 <ptl> I dunno
Feb 19 16:24:05 <V13> In: /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db
Feb 19 16:24:21 <V13> see: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/eventlogger/
Feb 19 16:26:39 <Khertan> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.3-2/ <-- doesn't have the right right content for bugtracker link
Feb 19 16:26:52 <Khertan> it s ok in the package control file
Feb 19 16:27:03 <Khertan> so should i put a bugs on b.m.o ?
Feb 19 16:28:19 <V13> perhaps a link in the form: mailto:koko@lala would work
Feb 19 16:28:23 <ptl> what's vectormine? a vector drawing program?
Feb 19 16:28:34 <X-Fade> Khertan: Takes an hour max to update.
Feb 19 16:29:19 <V13> Khertan: I mean: set mailto:koko@lala as the bugtracker in control file.
Feb 19 16:29:31 <V13> it *may* work
Feb 19 16:31:19 * V13 needs (again) guidance with pyqt
Feb 19 16:31:31 <V13> with maemo-pyqt to be correct
Feb 19 16:31:55 <Quark_> hi
Feb 19 16:32:38 <Khertan> v13 > it s set to mailto:khertan@khertan.net
Feb 19 16:32:42 <Khertan> i ve try both :)
Feb 19 16:32:49 <V13> oh :(
Feb 19 16:32:56 <Khertan> X-Fade: ok
Feb 19 16:33:10 <Quark_> does anyone have N900?
Feb 19 16:33:36 <mgedmin> o/
Feb 19 16:33:42 <pupnik_> no
Feb 19 16:33:46 <pekuja> that's a bit of a weird question on this channel, I'd say
Feb 19 16:33:52 <Khertan> Quark_: yep
Feb 19 16:33:54 <pekuja> we all have iPhones
Feb 19 16:34:07 * mgedmin throws a stone at pekuja
Feb 19 16:34:09 <Quark_> i heard that N900 have so many bugs right?
Feb 19 16:34:14 <V13> right
Feb 19 16:34:23 <Khertan> stupid question 2
Feb 19 16:34:27 <Quark_> this bug can will be fixed soon or no?
Feb 19 16:34:30 <Khertan> never 2 without 3
Feb 19 16:34:32 <mgedmin> it has software, therefore it has bugs
Feb 19 16:34:34 <mgedmin> ;)
Feb 19 16:34:35 <Khertan> and the third
Feb 19 16:34:37 <Khertan> lol
Feb 19 16:34:39 <Quark_> cuz i want buy a mobile
Feb 19 16:34:46 <Quark_> im thinking about N900 or HTC HD
Feb 19 16:35:02 * mgedmin thinks the N900 is awesome, but prefers an old Series 40 nokia for actual phone calls
Feb 19 16:35:04 <Quark_> and sorry if this is the wrong place to write that :(
Feb 19 16:35:08 <V13> I believe hero is a lot better than hd
Feb 19 16:35:11 <mgedmin> no experience with HTC HD
Feb 19 16:35:12 * V13 trolled
Feb 19 16:35:22 * SpeedEvil uses the n900 as only phone.
Feb 19 16:35:26 <mgedmin> HTC implies either Android or Windows, right?
Feb 19 16:35:28 <Khertan> it use winmo ?
Feb 19 16:35:33 <Quark_> windows
Feb 19 16:35:38 <mgedmin> I saw a Windows mobile once
Feb 19 16:35:38 <Quark_> it uses windows
Feb 19 16:35:38 <Khertan> so n900 :)
Feb 19 16:35:39 <SpeedEvil> (that said - I've not made a call on it since November)
Feb 19 16:35:41 <V13> so you should first determine hero or hd and then n900 or htc
Feb 19 16:35:41 <mgedmin> ran away screaming
Feb 19 16:35:48 * SpeedEvil isn't big with the whole calls thing.
Feb 19 16:35:50 <cpscotti> mgedmin: lolll
Feb 19 16:35:55 <Quark_> hmm
Feb 19 16:36:02 <mgedmin> the UI didn't work for me
Feb 19 16:36:04 <Quark_> hard to choose a mobile nowaday :D
Feb 19 16:36:09 <mgedmin> I suppose
Feb 19 16:36:21 <Quark_> sometimes i get intrested in N900 and sometimes no
Feb 19 16:36:34 <mgedmin> N900 is awesome for geeky purposes
Feb 19 16:36:39 <mgedmin> okay for phone calls
Feb 19 16:36:44 <SpeedEvil> Quark_: If you find a linux box in your pocket, which you can run arbitrary programs on - it's great.
Feb 19 16:36:47 <mgedmin> well, okay is saying a bit much
Feb 19 16:36:50 <Khertan> and the best for browsing
Feb 19 16:36:57 <SpeedEvil> If you want an app-store with eleven million fart apps, go elsewhere.
Feb 19 16:37:08 <Khertan> lol
Feb 19 16:37:11 <mgedmin> touchscreen interaction for responding to phone calls doesn't work for me -- I want something physical
Feb 19 16:37:15 <mgedmin> a flip phone or a slide phone
Feb 19 16:37:19 <mgedmin> my personal quirk
Feb 19 16:37:21 <Quark_> lol
Feb 19 16:37:33 * cpscotti can't understand doubt between n900 and the other phones.. it's the difference between a computer and a lot of game-boys
Feb 19 16:37:43 <Khertan> mgedmin: return key on the keypad
Feb 19 16:37:52 <V13> mgeadmin: this? http://livelaughlove3.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/old-phone-784028.jpg
Feb 19 16:37:52 <mgedmin> with the n900 when I pulled it out of my pocket it autodetected rotation, started playing animations from portrait to landscape, then back
Feb 19 16:38:01 <mgedmin> making it even more difficult to find the "answer" button on the touchscreen
Feb 19 16:38:06 * mgedmin hates the rotation animation
Feb 19 16:38:10 <Khertan> lol
Feb 19 16:38:25 <Khertan> you can remove the rotation
Feb 19 16:38:35 <mgedmin> there's that transition-control app
Feb 19 16:38:38 <Khertan> i ve remove it ... i found it annoying
Feb 19 16:38:47 <Khertan> go in pref on phone application
Feb 19 16:38:51 <Khertan> it s enough
Feb 19 16:38:56 <mgedmin> ah, that one
Feb 19 16:39:03 <mgedmin> maybe, I haven't noticed/remembered
Feb 19 16:39:05 <V13> mgedmin: which gets us to the common problem of n900 and every other too-many-things-phone.... It needs a "phone" button to make it just a phone immediately. No rotations, no zoom-in/outs. Nothing.
Feb 19 16:39:21 <mgedmin> actually I swapped my real SIM card into my Nokia 6600 that one time when my N900's battery died in mid-call
Feb 19 16:39:22 <V13> even better, make this a switch
Feb 19 16:39:25 <mgedmin> and never swapped it back
Feb 19 16:39:25 <Khertan> V13: put a phone shortcut on desktop
Feb 19 16:39:34 <V13> khertan yeah right... I've already
Feb 19 16:39:35 <mgedmin> I love and use my N900 too often for the battery to last through the day
Feb 19 16:39:40 <nidO> its just as quick to use the n900 as a phone as any other phone....
Feb 19 16:39:48 <V13> i need to unlock it, find the desktop, press the button, wait, handle rotation... crap...
Feb 19 16:39:50 <nidO> press the contacts button to find a contact, or just dial the number.
Feb 19 16:39:51 <mgedmin> the N900 is a good camera, though
Feb 19 16:39:56 <nidO> how is any other phone quicker?
Feb 19 16:40:00 <mgedmin> slide the lens cover, hit click, close lens cover
Feb 19 16:40:01 <mgedmin> perfect UI
Feb 19 16:40:03 <SpeedEvil> mgedmin: it's a mediochre camera.
Feb 19 16:40:10 <V13> i need to be able to call when I'm driving. I don't want a full-desktop when driving
Feb 19 16:40:12 <SpeedEvil> mgedmin: it is a convenient mediochre camera though.
Feb 19 16:40:13 <mgedmin> downsides: not ideal picture quality, long delay (a couple of seconds)
Feb 19 16:40:26 <V13> just a huge button: call
Feb 19 16:40:30 <mgedmin> the praise was meant for the UI, I phrased it wrong initially
Feb 19 16:40:32 <V13> or "answer"
Feb 19 16:40:43 <mgedmin> nice UI for uploading your photos to flickr/facebook
Feb 19 16:40:47 <Khertan> V13 first remove the auto rotate from preferences
Feb 19 16:40:49 <nidO> is the massive red answer button not massive enough?
Feb 19 16:40:59 <V13> khertan: but i like auto-rotate all other time.
Feb 19 16:41:16 <Khertan> yep ... just unactivate it for phone
Feb 19 16:41:17 <mgedmin> nidO, I can't hit it by feel without looking, so --> no
Feb 19 16:41:18 <V13> that's why i'm saying for a "phone" button. to just become a minimal phone for a while
Feb 19 16:41:23 <nidO> get a handsfree kit then
Feb 19 16:41:27 <V13> i've
Feb 19 16:41:42 <SpeedEvil> I want to be able to make the camera button do that
Feb 19 16:41:52 <SpeedEvil> I never ever want to open the camera UI with the shutter closed
Feb 19 16:41:55 <Khertan> SpeedEvil: it s possible
Feb 19 16:41:55 * mgedmin also gave up on handsfree kits -- stupidly short battery life, inconvenient storage, atrocious UI
Feb 19 16:42:04 <V13> to call from the car i need: get phone, unlock it, handle it in landscape, switch to phone app, handle in portait..car moves... now it's landscape.
Feb 19 16:42:13 <Khertan> if i remember there is an app for that
Feb 19 16:42:19 <SpeedEvil> Khertan: I mean - all the way press.
Feb 19 16:42:23 <mgedmin> V13, talking on the phone in a moving car -> bad idea
Feb 19 16:42:24 <nidO> me, i just press the voice activation button on my steering wheel and say "call xxxx"
Feb 19 16:42:27 <nidO> nice and easy.
Feb 19 16:42:28 <SpeedEvil> Khertan: not only half-press
Feb 19 16:42:30 <mgedmin> *especially* without a hands-free kit
Feb 19 16:42:36 <mgedmin> I believe it's illegal here
Feb 19 16:42:37 <V13> mgeadmin: well.. I may be jammed in the city.
Feb 19 16:42:57 <V13> and there are other cases.
Feb 19 16:43:01 * mgedmin sighs, remembering the voice dialling on his old Ericsson
Feb 19 16:43:16 <mgedmin> nokia insists on an artificial voice for all 200 my contacts and then cannot distinguish between them
Feb 19 16:43:17 <V13> since the phone function of ... well... a phone device (even n900) is a major thing of it's ability, then i want a button for that...
Feb 19 16:43:25 <mgedmin> it's a lottery which contact it will call
Feb 19 16:43:30 * mgedmin speaks of his Series 40, not the N900
Feb 19 16:43:32 <V13> why do i have a button (in fact two) for the camera and not for the phone?
Feb 19 16:43:37 * mgedmin doesn't think the N900 even has voice dialling
Feb 19 16:43:48 <SpeedEvil> mgedmin: doesn't
Feb 19 16:44:11 <mgedmin> in short, the N900 is an awesome handheld computer with voice chat support, but it's not a phone
Feb 19 16:44:12 <nidO> because the n900 is a computer first and a phone second, simple. maybe an x6 woulda been more up your street? :\
Feb 19 16:44:21 <V13> mgedmin: I'm aware of that :)
Feb 19 16:44:35 <V13> mgedmin: but I'd still like a phone button :)
Feb 19 16:44:51 <zaheerm> nexus one sucks as a phone too
Feb 19 16:45:02 <V13> nid0 no .. i like n900.. i won't change it for all other phones..
Feb 19 16:45:12 <V13> but i still wont the button :)
Feb 19 16:45:13 <mgedmin> smartphones aren't smart nor phones...
Feb 19 16:45:16 <V13> want
Feb 19 16:45:24 <zaheerm> so do most touch screen only phones
Feb 19 16:45:34 <crashanddie> V13: wouldn't change it for any other phone
Feb 19 16:45:35 <zaheerm> best "phones" have a keypad
Feb 19 16:45:46 <jaska> hell, my old 6250 had voice dial
Feb 19 16:45:48 <Quark_> anyone have HTC HD?
Feb 19 16:45:48 <crashanddie> would be the correct grammar
Feb 19 16:45:50 <nidO> tbh, nokia needs a maemo based communicator
Feb 19 16:45:59 <V13> crashanddie: that one :)
Feb 19 16:46:01 <nidO> Quark_ are you referring to an hd or an hd2?
Feb 19 16:46:06 <Quark_> hd
Feb 19 16:46:06 <V13> quark: join #htc
Feb 19 16:46:09 <cehteh> mhm .. i think i made less than 5 phone calls with my n900 so far
Feb 19 16:46:12 <Quark_> hd2 so expensive in my country
Feb 19 16:46:38 <nidO> shouldnt be any more so than an n900, isnt that what your alternative is?
Feb 19 16:46:40 <_andy> i'd like a capacitive touch screen. other than that the N900 is pretty much my ideal phone.
Feb 19 16:46:52 <V13> andy: here's a true store..
Feb 19 16:47:09 <Quark_> i have 2 choice
Feb 19 16:47:12 <Quark_> N900 or HTC HD
Feb 19 16:47:21 <Quark_> so hard to choose
Feb 19 16:47:38 <_andy> Quark_: so you came here looking for bias...?
Feb 19 16:47:43 <nidO> maemo + capacitive screen + gorilla glass + E-series communicator-style design = perfect phone
Feb 19 16:47:43 <luke-jr> Quark_: LG Apollo!
Feb 19 16:47:44 <cehteh> heh absolutely not hard .. which os is free? .. think choose
Feb 19 16:47:51 <zaheerm> http://www.neatorama.com/2010/02/11/iphone-sausage-stylus/ <-- for capacitive screen likers
Feb 19 16:47:52 <luke-jr> cehteh: neither
Feb 19 16:47:52 <V13> a month ago there was much snow and quite cold over here (greece). I was out with two friends walking while one's phone rang. Both of them have iphones and the one who's phone rang was ill so he was dressed pretty well..
Feb 19 16:47:53 <Quark_> no i want help to choose a phone
Feb 19 16:47:59 <Quark_> i dont have good experience
Feb 19 16:48:04 <Quark_> in smartphones
Feb 19 16:48:09 <luke-jr> Quark_: #htc-linux ? :)
Feb 19 16:48:11 <_andy> V13: couldn't use it with gloves?
Feb 19 16:48:18 <Quark_> htc-windows
Feb 19 16:48:24 <nidO> if you want a smartphone get the htc.
Feb 19 16:48:27 <V13> because of the gloves he couldn't answer the call, so he was using his nose :-)))) after failing it with that he asked the other iphone user to press his answer button :)
Feb 19 16:48:36 <nidO> if you want a pocket computer with a mediocre phone in it, get the n900
Feb 19 16:48:40 <luke-jr> Quark_: fail
Feb 19 16:48:40 <_andy> V13: i live in canada and have friends with iphones :) its only a matter of time because there's a good stylus for capacitive screens :)
Feb 19 16:48:42 <nidO> easy
Feb 19 16:48:49 <Quark_> ok
Feb 19 16:48:53 <Quark_> thx for help
Feb 19 16:49:04 <Quark_> and sorry for waste ur time guys
Feb 19 16:49:20 <_andy> Quark_: that is why we are here :)
Feb 19 16:49:21 <V13> andy: indeed.. capacitive is *really* nice. I've "access" to a htc hero and it's screen is superior, even with much less resolution.
Feb 19 16:49:28 <Quark_> ^^
Feb 19 16:49:33 <V13> the glass and the coating make a big difference. the capacitive too
Feb 19 16:49:37 <luke-jr> V13: why is capacitive nice?
Feb 19 16:49:45 <luke-jr> I've only heard bad things about capacitive
Feb 19 16:49:50 <nidO> the hd2's capacitive screen is really nice as well, it just seems very fragile
Feb 19 16:49:57 <Quark_> bye for now , see u later guys
Feb 19 16:50:04 <nidO> tbh manufactures really need to get round to adopting gorilla glass in a proper way
Feb 19 16:50:07 <V13> luke: it is just easier to handle and because it needs less preasure it makes the interface more smooth
Feb 19 16:50:21 <_andy> also.. MULTITOUCH
Feb 19 16:50:24 <V13> luke: observer that n900's interface is smoother when you use stylus or a nail.
Feb 19 16:50:30 <luke-jr> V13: my resistive ts requires *no* pressure :p
Feb 19 16:50:38 <V13> mine requires a lot
Feb 19 16:50:49 <luke-jr> V13: and I hear in general capacitive is very inaccurate
Feb 19 16:50:51 <V13> anyway, n900's screen is smehow plastic
Feb 19 16:50:53 * SpeedEvil has no problem whatsoever just using his thumbs.
Feb 19 16:50:54 <zaheerm> and my nexus one, i keep pressing the wrong things
Feb 19 16:51:04 <luke-jr> V13: I can't say I ever use anything other than a stylus
Feb 19 16:51:07 <zaheerm> onscreen keyboard for example is useless
Feb 19 16:51:09 <V13> luke: while hero's is glass... feels a lot better
Feb 19 16:51:28 <V13> and hero's (and iphone's) has a coating that doesn't get ... how do you call it
Feb 19 16:51:46 <luke-jr> V13: my fingers aren't big, but they're still too big to touch accurately
Feb 19 16:51:48 <V13> what's the thing that goes from the hands on N900's screen? :)
Feb 19 16:51:54 <luke-jr> = useless
Feb 19 16:51:54 <V13> like fat
Feb 19 16:52:04 <_andy> v13: fingerprints..?
Feb 19 16:52:05 <SpeedEvil> V13: your fingers
Feb 19 16:52:19 <V13> n900's screen needs cleaning
Feb 19 16:52:21 <V13> often
Feb 19 16:52:25 <pekuja> V13: grease
Feb 19 16:52:28 <V13> greasy, oily
Feb 19 16:52:28 <luke-jr> touchscreens are lame :p
Feb 19 16:52:29 <V13> that
Feb 19 16:52:37 <pekuja> possibly dirt also
Feb 19 16:52:38 <luke-jr> just give me an eraser mouse
Feb 19 16:52:40 <SpeedEvil> I have a protector on the n900
Feb 19 16:52:42 <V13> while hero's screen has a coating that doesn't get greasy
Feb 19 16:52:45 <_andy> V13: i got a Zagg invisishield its  much better for that.. doesn't need as frequent cleaning.
Feb 19 16:52:46 <SpeedEvil> so I just rub it on my t-shirt
Feb 19 16:52:49 <pekuja> I mean, whatever grime you might have on your fingers
Feb 19 16:52:49 <nidO> touchscreens will always be kinda lame until theyre all made with gorilla glass and have antigrease coats on them
Feb 19 16:53:01 <nidO> which will also put the screen protector industry out of business
Feb 19 16:53:12 <V13> andy: are the colors still ok? is the size right?
Feb 19 16:54:00 <V13> so, yes... i like htc hero's screen more... and the compass.. but it stops there.. everything else is maemo/n900-win
Feb 19 16:54:34 * V13 still wants a phone-button
Feb 19 16:56:28 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:28 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:28 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:28 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:29 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:29 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:29 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:29 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:30 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:30 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:31 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:31 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:32 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:32 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:32 <V13> thnx
Feb 19 16:56:33 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:33 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:33 <matthew-> u2
Feb 19 16:56:50 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:51 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:51 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:51 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:52 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:52 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:52 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:52 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:52 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:53 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:53 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:54 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:54 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:56:55 <xyz> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 16:57:08 <SpeedEvil> Boring.
Feb 19 16:57:16 <V13> nononono.. don't kick!
Feb 19 16:57:17 <nidO> excessive ban?
Feb 19 16:57:19 <V13> just ban :)
Feb 19 16:57:41 <matthew-> he would kill himself with excess flood
Feb 19 16:57:48 <V13> he'd be mute
Feb 19 16:57:51 <smhar> I spent a lot of time reading the many pages of talk.maemo.org -and meego.com- but still nobody seems to get a definite answer, so any one got some news on this? with the introduction of meego is the N900 a dead road? I WAS planning to get one soon
Feb 19 16:58:10 <V13> smhar: you mean the hardware or the software ?
Feb 19 16:58:16 <X-Fade> Will remove the ban a bit later.
Feb 19 16:58:34 <V13> smhar: the hardware is just like other phones: becomes obsolete after some time... The software most probably will be upgradable to a point.
Feb 19 16:58:50 <nidO> just no guarantees yet what that point is
Feb 19 16:58:51 <SpeedEvil> There are people porting meego to n900 as we speak
Feb 19 16:59:01 <V13> "porting meego" ?
Feb 19 16:59:07 <smhar> V13, I mean is the hardware
Feb 19 16:59:12 <V13> you mean fremantle ?
Feb 19 16:59:15 <smhar> SpeedEvil, people?
Feb 19 16:59:19 <Wizzup> Does anyone use wpa_supplicant on N900?
Feb 19 16:59:23 <nidO> hardware of all phones gets obsolete within a few months
Feb 19 16:59:34 <SpeedEvil> smhar: humans.
Feb 19 16:59:42 <V13> smhar: the hardware of all devices becomes obsolete when newer hardware becomes available.
Feb 19 17:00:00 <DarkGUNMAN> afternoon all
Feb 19 17:00:23 <V13> in #meego: villemv> smhar: Stskeeps will port Meego for n900 ;-)
Feb 19 17:00:30 <Wizzup> It seems maemo's default networking app doesn't support te features I need for wifi
Feb 19 17:00:30 <DarkGUNMAN> quick question if anyone knows anything abou it..
Feb 19 17:00:34 * mierda butt turd
Feb 19 17:00:42 <smhar> V13, on high end -expensive- devices, this usually mean a couple of years, atleast in Nokia, not a couple of months
Feb 19 17:01:02 <V13> smhar: it depends on the rate of new device deployment
Feb 19 17:01:14 <DarkGUNMAN> has anyone tried installing filezilla on easy debian successfully?
Feb 19 17:01:14 <V13> how do you define "dead road" ?
Feb 19 17:01:16 <nidO> a couple of years?
Feb 19 17:01:22 <SpeedEvil> Wizzup: in what way?
Feb 19 17:01:22 <nidO> how dyou figure that?
Feb 19 17:01:33 <V13> smhar: the hardware it not upgraded, so it isn't affected by such changes
Feb 19 17:01:35 <Wizzup> SpeedEvil: no EAP+TTLS
Feb 19 17:01:40 <Wizzup> +PAP*
Feb 19 17:01:52 <SpeedEvil> ah
Feb 19 17:02:07 <SpeedEvil> IIRC the GUI configurator does the WPA_supplicanty stuff too
Feb 19 17:02:12 <Wizzup> I think I found it... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1635
Feb 19 17:02:14 <povbot> Bug 1635: Eduroam (EAP-TTLS+PAP) WiFi auth
Feb 19 17:02:46 <smhar> v13, and specially not ones running linux based systems. I am still using a Dreambox 700 which I update regularly although it is discontinued. My home network server is P233 MHz running the latest debian updated regularly
Feb 19 17:02:50 <nidO> smhar it also entirely depends on exactly what you mean by "obsolete" - my e90 (one of the most expensive phones nokia has ever made?) is an ancient decrepid piece of crap by current standards in terms of the hardware that's in it, but it still does everything perfectly fine
Feb 19 17:03:03 <V13> smhar: but now you're talking about the software.
Feb 19 17:03:48 <V13> smhar: are you asking whether n900 won't be the top Nokia's device for a long time ?
Feb 19 17:04:07 <smhar> v13, no. I am talking about the software being supported by developers. if it was not based on linux, the DB7000 would be a huge door stopper by now.
Feb 19 17:04:10 <V13> s/won't/well
Feb 19 17:04:18 <crashanddie> X-Fade: thanks
Feb 19 17:04:19 <mtnbkr> Wizzup: and of course those features: 802.1x + eap/TTLS with inner PAP are what I need too :(
Feb 19 17:04:32 <V13> "of course" :-)))
Feb 19 17:04:48 <smhar> V13, I am asking whether Nokia will be CARING about N900 any more
Feb 19 17:05:09 <Wizzup> mtnbkr: That's why I asked about wpa_supplicant
Feb 19 17:05:12 <V13> so you're talking about s/w releases / updates ?
Feb 19 17:05:15 <nidO> smhar - crystall ball says sortof.
Feb 19 17:05:24 * Wizzup will try config files
Feb 19 17:05:33 <mierda> dame la papel de inodoro.  necesito tomar una mierda muy grande.
Feb 19 17:05:40 <smhar> V13, or just depends on 'other people' to provide updates and new releases when they find time
Feb 19 17:06:39 <crashanddie> is it stupid night?
Feb 19 17:07:13 <V13> +q ?
Feb 19 17:07:16 * Wizzup tries to find the wlan config files on maemo 5
Feb 19 17:07:22 <crashanddie> V13: quiets people who aren't registered
Feb 19 17:07:30 <V13> oh.. thnx
Feb 19 17:07:49 <crashanddie> X-Fade: if anyone complains they can't talk, just remove the +q. I've just banned any unregistered users to prevent other disruptions as we've just had
Feb 19 17:07:56 <crashanddie> I'm off to bed, for the third time, bye
Feb 19 17:10:24 <mgedmin> bit of a catch-22 there, innit?
Feb 19 17:10:34 <mgedmin> how can they complain they can't talk if they can't talk?
Feb 19 17:17:42 <cehteh> are the brightness levels somewhere configureable (i mean the relation of the drivers brightness to one of the 5 selectable ones)
Feb 19 17:19:19 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: ++
Feb 19 17:19:31 <SpeedEvil> level '1' is _WAY_ too bright
Feb 19 17:19:38 <crashanddie> mgedmin: by doing a /chanserv #maemo access list ?
Feb 19 17:19:41 <SpeedEvil> for dark-adapted eyes
Feb 19 17:19:51 <V13> yes.. level 1 in 256 and level 2 is 64...
Feb 19 17:19:59 <cehteh> yeah i need something like 0, 0.5, 1.5 and 5
Feb 19 17:20:02 <V13> i mean 5 is 256 and 4 is 64..
Feb 19 17:20:30 <mgedmin> crashanddie, which is an invalid command, fwiw
Feb 19 17:20:31 <cehteh> 5 settings are enouhg, but they should be better configureable
Feb 19 17:20:46 <V13> I need level "128" or half the full bright
Feb 19 17:20:49 <mgedmin> wasn't trying to keep you from bed, just admiring the situation
Feb 19 17:20:53 <crashanddie> mgedmin: my bad, it's 3:20 here... /chanserv access #maemo list
Feb 19 17:21:02 <mgedmin> you need to be nickserv-registered for private messages on freenode
Feb 19 17:21:06 <mgedmin> iirc
Feb 19 17:21:14 <cehteh> also the relation between the brightness sensor could be little better (its already good, but not good enough)
Feb 19 17:24:35 <SpeedEvil> An actual slider would be nice
Feb 19 17:24:49 <crashanddie> mgedmin: only if you have the +R mode on your account
Feb 19 17:25:10 <SpeedEvil> press one of the 5 buttons, get one of the presets. Slide on the little bright/dark area and tweak
Feb 19 17:25:13 * mgedmin still feels like a total irc noob even after all these years
Feb 19 17:25:16 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: i'd like a self-learing system .. and then maybe only +/- buttons
Feb 19 17:25:29 <mgedmin> isn't that mode on by default?
Feb 19 17:25:37 <cehteh> you know punish&reward training
Feb 19 17:25:41 <mgedmin> ah, on the _recipient's_ account
Feb 19 17:25:57 <mgedmin> so channel ops can clear that mode and hear requests from anybody
Feb 19 17:26:22 * mgedmin totally confused now ;)
Feb 19 17:26:54 <cehteh> freenode is always a little diffrent
Feb 19 17:26:58 <cehteh> just ignore it
Feb 19 17:29:50 <SpeedEvil> Can you run >1 x-servers? When I try to start anotehr - it just sulks. (Xorg :2)
Feb 19 17:31:18 <V13> yes you can
Feb 19 17:31:28 <V13> "sulks" ?
Feb 19 17:31:42 <V13> (I hope you don't mean in n900)
Feb 19 17:32:40 <SpeedEvil> yes, Ido
Feb 19 17:32:45 <V13> oh.. sry :)
Feb 19 17:33:55 <cehteh> how would you switch them?
Feb 19 17:34:00 <tybollt> hmm
Feb 19 17:34:03 <tybollt> there we go
Feb 19 17:34:11 <V13> chvt ?
Feb 19 17:34:15 <tybollt> why was the chan muted again?
Feb 19 17:34:17 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: oh - of course - these are fbs - not vts
Feb 19 17:34:18 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Feb 19 17:34:19 <cehteh> ctrl-alt-f8? :)
Feb 19 17:34:25 <SpeedEvil> chvt over ssh
Feb 19 17:34:36 <tybollt> ~curse nokla poor manufacturing skills
Feb 19 17:34:37 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokla poor manufacturing skills !
Feb 19 17:34:57 <SpeedEvil> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 17:35:00 <SpeedEvil> repeated lots
Feb 19 17:35:06 <V13> lol :)
Feb 19 17:35:14 <V13> (don't kick) it reminds of
Feb 19 17:35:16 <V13> FUCK YOU ALL
Feb 19 17:35:23 <V13> sorry.. wrong key-binding pressed
Feb 19 17:35:33 <cehteh> ..
Feb 19 17:35:44 <tybollt> SpeedEvil: sigh why don't the kiddies stop, ever? :(
Feb 19 17:36:04 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: with this kindof special driver, clutter, closed gl and stuff i doubt you will have success, but you may try
Feb 19 17:36:09 <inz> V13, http://www.bash.org/?5300 ?
Feb 19 17:36:16 <tybollt> *fart*
Feb 19 17:36:24 <cehteh> trying to get xephyr to the device might be easier
Feb 19 17:36:27 <V13> exactly
Feb 19 17:37:05 <V13> isn't easy debian working with xephyr ?
Feb 19 17:37:05 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: Or just killing X and restarting
Feb 19 17:37:33 <cehteh> i never tried to frickle with X on the device .. i expect there is some watchdog barking
Feb 19 17:37:45 <SpeedEvil> yes
Feb 19 17:37:51 <SpeedEvil> you can kill that trivially though
Feb 19 17:37:56 <SpeedEvil> it'll be started with dsmetool
Feb 19 17:38:11 <cehteh> well i didnt need it yet
Feb 19 17:38:32 <SpeedEvil> I was wanting to play with seeing if smaller bpp desktops use apperciably less power
Feb 19 17:38:33 <cehteh> and i just reboot, i dont aim for uptime records with this phone
Feb 19 17:38:45 <cehteh> certainly not
Feb 19 17:38:49 <mgedmin> smaller than 16bpp?
Feb 19 17:38:49 <SpeedEvil> ?
Feb 19 17:38:53 <SpeedEvil> yes
Feb 19 17:39:09 <mgedmin> would that be 15bpp or 8bpp?
Feb 19 17:39:12 <cehteh> why should it, its hardware accelerated and its optimized to that hardware
Feb 19 17:39:19 <mgedmin> does the hardware support 8bpp?
Feb 19 17:39:27 <SpeedEvil> One laptop - 1bpp desktop used - IIRC - 8% less power.
Feb 19 17:39:29 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
Feb 19 17:39:30 <auke> smaller bpp means less memory used, means less memory access -> potentially saving power
Feb 19 17:39:33 <cehteh> might even use more power when emulate something different which it isnt intended for
Feb 19 17:39:38 <SpeedEvil> But you've still got memory traffic across the bus
Feb 19 17:39:44 <SpeedEvil> with lower bpp, you don't.
Feb 19 17:39:55 <cehteh> well have fun
Feb 19 17:39:55 <SpeedEvil> (or at least much less)
Feb 19 17:40:09 <auke> you can probably save more power in other ways (reducing bitmap sizes e.g.)
Feb 19 17:40:18 <cehteh> in the emulator i tried to change the dpi for resizing fonts globally, that worked, but never tried that on the device
Feb 19 17:40:21 <SpeedEvil> potentially, yes.
Feb 19 17:40:30 <auke> yup. potentially :)
Feb 19 17:40:53 <SpeedEvil> You could also play with undervolting.
Feb 19 17:41:03 <cehteh> or biggier battery
Feb 19 17:43:13 * SpeedEvil ponders.
Feb 19 17:56:21 <SpeedEvil> Interesting. RAID works.
Feb 19 17:56:31 <cehteh> on the n900?
Feb 19 17:56:42 <SpeedEvil> In that reading from both MMCs you get considerably faster than one
Feb 19 17:56:49 <cehteh> yeah
Feb 19 17:56:54 <cehteh> i was thinking about that
Feb 19 17:56:56 <SpeedEvil> 27M/s
Feb 19 17:56:59 <cehteh> nice
Feb 19 17:56:59 <SpeedEvil> read
Feb 19 17:57:11 <SpeedEvil> With 150K bocks
Feb 19 17:57:13 <SpeedEvil> blocks
Feb 19 17:57:22 <SpeedEvil> I was idly wondering how silly suspend-disk would be
Feb 19 17:57:22 <cehteh> well first i want the camera being able to write to non fat fs
Feb 19 17:58:21 <cehteh> yet alone ext4 would be much faster than fat on the same disk
Feb 19 18:00:01 <SpeedEvil> Adding /dev/ubi0_0 seems not to help much. I guess it's contended with one of the others
Feb 19 18:00:49 <cehteh> you dont want to deal with the ubi stuff, thats going to crap your device
Feb 19 18:01:11 <cehteh> if the nand is damaged you really have a problem
Feb 19 18:01:30 <SpeedEvil> You need to do ECC related stuff, yes
Feb 19 18:05:57 <SpeedEvil> I am somewhat surprised my cheap crap 1G SD card gets only barely slower (10s vs 8.7) than the internal MMC to read 150M. The ubi device is third at 10.5.
Feb 19 18:06:12 <SpeedEvil> (reading uncontended)
Feb 19 18:09:23 <cehteh> well this tests are not very meaningful, you want to know how they behave after some use with real (random filesystem) workload
Feb 19 18:09:29 <ShadowJK> read speeds are generally iaround 10M even with class 2 cards
Feb 19 18:09:43 <ShadowJK> yes, sequential speeds are generally useless
Feb 19 18:09:48 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: I mean as a hypothetical workload restore from disk.
Feb 19 18:09:48 <cehteh> especially sd has high latency but is fast for sequential access
Feb 19 18:09:54 <ShadowJK> and raid makes it worse :-)
Feb 19 18:10:01 <SpeedEvil> For which sequential read is sane
Feb 19 18:10:09 <LuciusMare> Hello, is it safe to run apt-get upgrade from console?
Feb 19 18:10:14 <cehteh> no
Feb 19 18:10:14 <ShadowJK> ever used suspend to disk? it's not sequential write/read.:D
Feb 19 18:10:24 <LuciusMare> how come?
Feb 19 18:10:33 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: it pretty much was IIRC - when I last used it.
Feb 19 18:10:59 <cehteh> iirc ham sprinkles some fairy dust over apt to clean and put temp files somewhere else and not on the rootfs
Feb 19 18:11:29 <cehteh> with apt-get upgrade from the console your rootfs may become full, at least happend for me
Feb 19 18:11:38 <ShadowJK> Basically the first phase it swaps out all applications, and then writes and image to the end. the swapout part, and especially the swapin part on resume can be extremely random :)
Feb 19 18:12:15 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I'm talking of an ideal future where it's all linear.
Feb 19 18:12:18 <SpeedEvil> :)
Feb 19 18:12:30 <cehteh> nilfs :P
Feb 19 18:12:33 <SpeedEvil> I find that odd - as I don't recall suspend being that slow.
Feb 19 18:12:55 <SpeedEvil> It seemed to be doing of the order of the disks r/w bandwidthg
Feb 19 18:13:24 <LuciusMare> so, why?
Feb 19 18:13:42 <cehteh> LuciusMare: ^
Feb 19 18:13:49 <ShadowJK> on my pc it does about 5megs per sec on a hd that does over 60M/sec write :)
Feb 19 18:13:50 <cehteh> well try and figure
Feb 19 18:14:10 <LuciusMare> cehteh: my connection just failed
Feb 19 18:14:20 <cehteh> [19:11] <cehteh> iirc ham sprinkles some fairy dust over apt to clean and put temp files somewhere else and not on the rootfs
Feb 19 18:14:20 <cehteh> [19:11] <cehteh> with apt-get upgrade from the console your rootfs may become full, at least happend for me
Feb 19 18:14:45 <LuciusMare> hm
Feb 19 18:15:13 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I wonder if I was last using it under the old suspend infrastructure.
Feb 19 18:15:24 <LuciusMare> okay then, but there are several pqackages (like gstreamer) that do not show in ham
Feb 19 18:16:16 <cehteh> maybe do a HAM udate first and try apt update afterwards? .. dunno i never cared
Feb 19 18:19:32 <ShadowJK> ham upgrades libraries when an app upgrade needs it
Feb 19 18:19:59 * SpeedEvil wonders why there is no UK upgrade.
Feb 19 18:20:42 <cehteh> its an island, which had some snow problems, shipping there is not easy
Feb 19 18:21:32 <SpeedEvil> The UK is not an island.
Feb 19 18:21:48 <SpeedEvil> The UK is two islands.
Feb 19 18:22:11 <mgedmin> one and a fraction?
Feb 19 18:22:14 <SpeedEvil> (not counting the lots of little ones)
Feb 19 18:22:28 <mgedmin> or do the little ones and that fraction add up to one full island?
Feb 19 18:24:05 <odin_> so I have to do something in scratchbox so packages for SDK upgrade are "authenticated" ?
Feb 19 18:24:09 * SpeedEvil had assumed that tehre was no actual localisation going on - it was simply rolling out the firmware by region.
Feb 19 18:24:13 <mgedmin> in ye olden days apt-get upgrade could've broken your tablet
Feb 19 18:24:28 <mgedmin> e.g. by upgrading essential system packages with SDK versions, for those who added SDK repositories to their tablets
Feb 19 18:24:45 <mgedmin> or by simply restarting core system services that trigger a watchdog reboot with the upgrade half-finished
Feb 19 18:24:54 <mgedmin> I don't know if all those issues have been fixed on the n900
Feb 19 18:25:19 <mgedmin> HAM is the only officially supported upgrade tool (well, that, and flashing the whole rootfs, which is more like wipe + restore than upgrade)
Feb 19 18:25:25 <odin_> apt-get upgrade: WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! .... how can I fix that in the SDK ?
Feb 19 18:25:40 <V13> do you see any thanks on the first post of: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=520370 ?
Feb 19 18:26:27 <mgedmin> V13, I don't
Feb 19 18:26:32 <V13> wtf..
Feb 19 18:26:42 <V13> there were a lot, i pressed thanks and they disapeared !
Feb 19 18:26:56 <V13> and I can't "thank" or "remove thanks" in that post
Feb 19 18:27:07 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: I guess the main issue is with RF regulations
Feb 19 18:30:05 <V13> Look: http://imagebin.ca/view/cEzbCf3Z.html
Feb 19 18:30:41 <V13> how can i report this for t.m.o ?
Feb 19 18:30:51 <SpeedEvil> possibly
Feb 19 18:31:20 <mgedmin> V13, caching issues?
Feb 19 18:32:01 <V13> with you too ?
Feb 19 18:34:24 <V13> ok.. bug report submitted...
Feb 19 18:36:49 <V13> bb
Feb 19 18:43:56 <ensonic> bah, the flasher does indeed not work on opensuse11.2
Feb 19 18:54:25 <cehteh> ensonic: will you be at LAC?
Feb 19 18:58:27 * RST38h yawns
Feb 19 19:00:22 <cehteh> heh .. morning or whatever :P .. you can package my xchat plugin now, i added few things should be really ok now
Feb 19 19:01:24 <ensonic> cehteh: I submitted a talk, so most probably yes :)
Feb 19 19:01:55 <cehteh> ok, see you there
Feb 19 19:02:08 <ensonic> cehteh: if you tell me who you are ...
Feb 19 19:02:09 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: Did you get the remotely activate front camera thing working properly?
Feb 19 19:02:38 <cehteh> ensonic: we met 2 years ago on lac, lumiera video editor..
Feb 19 19:02:54 <ensonic> cehteh: ahh, remember
Feb 19 19:03:15 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: huh? me? never tried
Feb 19 19:04:19 <SpeedEvil> nvm - I was implying there was a trojan.
Feb 19 19:04:33 * SpeedEvil wonders what fraction of code in extras has ever been read since submission.
Feb 19 19:05:51 <cehteh> hehe poor spy it he has to use that crappy front-cam :P
Feb 19 19:06:10 <SpeedEvil> s/frac/tiny frac/
Feb 19 19:06:35 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: somehow I suspect that was a rhetorical question
Feb 19 19:07:23 <SpeedEvil> no.
Feb 19 19:07:34 <SpeedEvil> I actually do wonder what fraction of the code has been read.
Feb 19 19:07:37 <cehteh> hey .. we can make video chat over irc .. the frontcam should barly suffice for libaa rendered video :)
Feb 19 19:07:50 <SpeedEvil> Or even compared with upstream
Feb 19 19:08:15 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: yeah i guess so too .. but well .. my code is open and i use it by myself feel free to review it
Feb 19 19:08:42 <SpeedEvil> I don't expect that there is one in there. idly wondering
Feb 19 19:08:58 <cehteh> i even posted only the code first that anyone has to self compile it .. only someone asked for posting a binary
Feb 19 19:09:49 <cehteh> i mean yes, i think this are valid concerns and some code-review tool for maemo.org would be nice
Feb 19 19:10:05 <cehteh> just that *someone* reads code, comment on it and signs it
Feb 19 19:10:33 <cehteh> if you then trust his skills, comments and signature is another thing, but that would be a start
Feb 19 19:10:38 <SpeedEvil> yeah.
Feb 19 19:10:49 <SpeedEvil> First cut to catch system() is quite easy.
Feb 19 19:10:56 <SpeedEvil> And doesn't take much skill.
Feb 19 19:11:07 <cehteh> nah thats to easy ..
Feb 19 19:11:13 <SpeedEvil> Catching more advanced stuff like buffer exploits...
Feb 19 19:11:23 <cehteh> you should suspect that anyone who want to slip a trojan in will do little harder
Feb 19 19:11:26 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Feb 19 19:11:49 <SpeedEvil> Like writing a jpeg library so that the decompressor has a subtle bug that allows stack overflow.
Feb 19 19:12:01 <cehteh> or a xchat plugin :P
Feb 19 19:16:03 <b0unc3> hi guys, which is the best method to start an installed application from a gui (C/GTK)  ?
Feb 19 19:17:30 <cehteh> provide a .desktop file?
Feb 19 19:18:03 <b0unc3> cehteh, I want to run an installed application reading the .desktop file from my own app
Feb 19 19:18:19 <cehteh> hehe system() :P
Feb 19 19:19:10 <cehteh> well seriously .. there are some dbus message to start apps
Feb 19 19:19:19 <b0unc3> cehteh, system for the bin execution maybe... but I want to use a clean way with dbus/libosso
Feb 19 19:23:36 <jeez_> Is there a file where I can find the sizes of widgets, shortcuts, etc, from the Hildon Home ? With gconf I found all positions, but no sizes
Feb 19 19:24:15 <jeez_> the shortcut icons always have the same size but widgets don't
Feb 19 19:30:53 <pwnguin> hmm. this is annyoing. i can't remember where i saw the source code that turns the video camera red LED on and off =/
Feb 19 19:31:41 <SpeedEvil> it's in the video driver
Feb 19 19:31:59 <SpeedEvil> see the n900_led_flashlight page on the wiki, I linked to it
Feb 19 19:38:42 <shinkamui> my finger hurts
Feb 19 19:41:39 <cehteh> too much angry birds?
Feb 19 19:43:26 <Lumpio-> Angry Birds is Maemo's Tuxracer, I take it
Feb 19 19:43:41 <Lumpio-> (I want new levels >_<
Feb 19 19:44:20 * SpeedEvil has done all 3 tiers of levels, and still wants more.
Feb 19 19:44:38 <Lumpio-> There's more tiers? >_>
Feb 19 19:44:44 <Lumpio-> I never figured out how to get them
Feb 19 19:44:58 <Lumpio-> ...not that I tried anything besides the button that appears at the end, which just seems to let you download the same app again
Feb 19 19:46:55 <SpeedEvil> Lumpio-: there are 3*21 levels
Feb 19 19:47:01 <Lumpio-> How do I get moar :<
Feb 19 19:47:15 <SpeedEvil> Lumpio-: I got the other 2 via apt-get
Feb 19 19:47:22 <SpeedEvil> before I realised they were pay-for
Feb 19 19:47:24 <Lumpio-> I thought they weren't out or something since it just kept offering me the first one
Feb 19 19:47:34 <SpeedEvil> they haven't properly sorted out the store yet
Feb 19 19:47:36 <Lumpio-> Wait you can just get them like that? >_>
Feb 19 19:47:37 <Lumpio-> hah
Feb 19 19:47:41 <Lumpio-> What are the package names
Feb 19 19:47:45 <SpeedEvil> that got pulled
Feb 19 19:47:54 <SpeedEvil> I think I've nuked the original package :/
Feb 19 19:47:59 <pwnguin> fg
Feb 19 19:48:48 <Lumpio-> aw
Feb 19 19:52:48 <Nitial> there are some community made levels, but yeah, the official level pack hasn't returned to store :(
Feb 19 19:54:13 <pwnguin> SpeedEvil: actually, i dont think it is. i was fairly sure it was in gdigicam =/
Feb 19 19:54:27 <pwnguin> SpeedEvil: the logic to turn the led on / off during recording I mean
Feb 19 19:58:24 <Lumpio-> Meh
Feb 19 19:58:32 <Lumpio-> I've already completed the first 21 levels with 3 stars and I want more :(
Feb 19 19:58:33 <Lumpio-> damn slow nokia
Feb 19 19:59:07 <pwnguin> Lumpio-: you could try sgt-puzzles
Feb 19 19:59:50 <SpeedEvil> enigma is also annoying
Feb 19 20:03:11 <Lumpio-> pwnguin: I doubts it has birds
Feb 19 20:03:37 <pwnguin> it has kenken
Feb 19 20:04:18 <RST38h> http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/02/500x_ti.jpg
Feb 19 20:05:43 <Lumpio-> WTF is that
Feb 19 20:05:46 <Lumpio-> (device)
Feb 19 20:05:53 <RST38h> Maemo6!
Feb 19 20:06:01 <Milo-> dual screen!
Feb 19 20:06:05 <RST38h> That is why you cannot run it on N900: TWO SCREENS
Feb 19 20:06:25 <lcuk> i have 2  n900s
Feb 19 20:06:40 <lcuk> RST38h, that looks wrong tho
Feb 19 20:07:07 <RST38h> lcuk: I am sure you have not glued yours like that yet
Feb 19 20:07:10 <Milo-> that's the reason why calculator companies shouldn't go to mobile phone business
Feb 19 20:07:19 <Lumpio-> Judging by the keyboard that thing must be /ginormous/
Feb 19 20:07:23 <Lumpio-> If it's supposed to be thumbable thatis
Feb 19 20:07:37 <Lumpio-> Who shopped it?
Feb 19 20:07:39 <pwnguin> well, until you can close it to trigger suspend gimmick puzzles
Feb 19 20:07:46 <lcuk> RST38h, duct tape
Feb 19 20:10:49 <Stskeeps> wb jebba900
Feb 19 20:12:27 <RST38h> "In this video from the annual DICE summit,Schell comments on recent evolutions in gaming before fixating on a concept where our futures evolve into one big RPG."
Feb 19 20:13:31 * SpeedEvil plays a magician-idiot.
Feb 19 20:24:55 * ShadowJK shakes his head at the people on tmo graphing the battery meter and drawing tangents trying to come up with smart sounding conclusions
Feb 19 20:26:56 <lcuk> ShadowJK, cool
Feb 19 20:26:56 <lcuk> where
Feb 19 20:27:02 * lcuk likes graphs
Feb 19 20:27:06 <lcuk> and wiggly lines
Feb 19 20:27:11 <lcuk> especially scrolling them
Feb 19 20:27:36 <ShadowJK> battery-eye or battery-graph something in -devel or -testing
Feb 19 20:28:49 <ShadowJK> but the nature of the battery meter on n900, and the way that it's updated makes it pretty unusable for drawing tangents and looking at the slope
Feb 19 20:30:16 <Arkenoi> proporta case seems to be much better than pdair. no film on keyboard at least.
Feb 19 20:31:40 <jacekowski> mhm
Feb 19 20:31:43 <lcuk> ShadowJK, also, im betting it updates pretty slowly
Feb 19 20:31:45 <jacekowski> http://⌘.ws/葖
Feb 19 20:32:03 <jacekowski> http://➡.ws/餋ᶇ
Feb 19 20:32:11 <jacekowski> http://tinyarro.ws/
Feb 19 20:32:21 <jacekowski> nice tinyurl thingy
Feb 19 20:32:30 <ShadowJK> lcuk: once every 2 hours when idle ime
Feb 19 20:32:44 <lcuk> ShadowJK, i meant to see drastic changes
Feb 19 20:32:53 <ShadowJK> lcuk: or randomly every few minutes when screen is on
Feb 19 20:33:01 <lcuk> i have a battery doofer here that just moves from empty to full
Feb 19 20:33:18 <ShadowJK> doofer?
Feb 19 20:34:05 <lcuk> ShadowJK, technical term, i zoom into it in here http://www.youtube.com/user/lcukmaemo#p/a/u/2/7hGUKICDeok
Feb 19 20:37:56 <ShadowJK> heh
Feb 19 20:38:27 <ShadowJK> the n900 meter does roughly that at end of charge
Feb 19 20:38:36 <ShadowJK> in one big leap :D
Feb 19 20:40:46 <lcuk> ShadowJK, theres no way for any battery meter to get it right
Feb 19 20:41:09 <lcuk> i was sat in amsterdam at the summit, and my device was giving me death wails
Feb 19 20:41:15 <lcuk> i sat down to take some notes
Feb 19 20:41:27 <lcuk> and it lasted the next 2 hours
Feb 19 20:41:32 <SpeedEvil> yes, htere is.
Feb 19 20:41:35 <SpeedEvil> but it's comple.
Feb 19 20:41:36 <lcuk> it infact stopped moanin
Feb 19 20:41:37 <SpeedEvil> x
Feb 19 20:41:42 <lcuk> yeah of
Feb 19 20:41:44 <lcuk> c
Feb 19 20:42:00 <SpeedEvil> You need a decent battery model
Feb 19 20:42:06 <Shrik3> http://www.meegos.com/ - using MeeGo reguires a meego avatar, true story.
Feb 19 20:43:06 <ShadowJK> Well, I'd actually define the goal of the battery meter as measuring where between full snf battery-low-warning it is :)
Feb 19 20:43:18 <ShadowJK> s/snf/and
Feb 19 20:44:49 <lcuk> ShadowJK, but if you smooth it too much it will be wrong
Feb 19 20:44:55 <lcuk> and if its too fine, it will be wrong
Feb 19 20:44:59 <lcuk> there is no perfect way
Feb 19 20:45:11 <SpeedEvil> you don't smooth it
Feb 19 20:45:28 <SpeedEvil> you calculate the energy remaining in the battery, and display that.
Feb 19 20:45:41 <lcuk> yeah
Feb 19 20:45:45 <SpeedEvil> This takes either a charge meter chip - or some annoying maths.
Feb 19 20:45:50 <SpeedEvil> there is no charge meter in the n900
Feb 19 20:45:58 <lcuk> and if you display it whilst theres a 0.1second 100% cpu busy spot
Feb 19 20:46:02 <lcuk> it will say 10seconds remain
Feb 19 20:46:07 <lcuk> then cpu drops  back to idle
Feb 19 20:46:10 <lcuk> and you get 1hr
Feb 19 20:46:39 <ShadowJK> My software meter on n810 is 1% accurate within 18 hours (of resetting it) and similar use, and about 10% accuracy for a few days :D
Feb 19 20:46:52 <SpeedEvil> yes - I'm meaning you can meaningfully display amount the battery will supply in each usecase.
Feb 19 20:46:56 <SpeedEvil> But it's not trivial.
Feb 19 20:47:02 <ShadowJK> Oh, time estimates are pure bull
Feb 19 20:47:36 <lcuk> ShadowJK, but your capacity is based on current and voltage drop and stuff
Feb 19 20:47:42 <lcuk> and that changes with device usage
Feb 19 20:48:42 <ShadowJK> yes
Feb 19 20:48:48 <SpeedEvil> If you have a proper charge meter, it's not.
Feb 19 20:49:02 <ShadowJK> On N8x0 we can access the current sensor
Feb 19 20:49:04 <SpeedEvil> If you don't - you can fake it to a large degree - but the code isn't trivial
Feb 19 20:49:24 <ShadowJK> check out hald-addon-bme stuff in Mer for how
Feb 19 20:50:19 <ShadowJK> So I set my counter to 0 at battery low warning, connect charger, measure charge-consumption, add it to the counter once per second
Feb 19 20:50:57 <ShadowJK> and then stream shoutcast until battery empty, and the meter has been very close to 0
Feb 19 20:52:52 <ShadowJK> N900 most probaböy has a current sensor... However, I don't think it has a integrating battery fuel gauge chip..
Feb 19 20:54:54 <ShadowJK> I suspect it occasionally samples battery voltage, and perhaps also samples the current consumption to correct the voltage with a model of the battery's internal resistance, and another model to map that voltage to remaining capacity
Feb 19 20:55:25 <lcuk> dont forget to take temp into account
Feb 19 20:56:20 <sobczyk_> hi anyone here user qtirreco?
Feb 19 20:56:29 <ShadowJK> if it's really clever it could poll the current sensor constantly during charge (hey, infinite amounts of power available, lets burn it on polling!) to adjust the internal resistance model as the batery ages, and also to measure the current capacity of the battery
Feb 19 21:02:25 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I saw nothing spectacularly clever in the bme driver kernelside
Feb 19 21:02:44 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: the voltage polling seemingly stops with - at least - the display off
Feb 19 21:02:58 <SpeedEvil> Which is perhaps suboptimal.
Feb 19 21:03:16 <ShadowJK> I think the general rule is that it's checked if the battery icon is visible
Feb 19 21:03:18 <SpeedEvil> If you explicitly read /sys/voltage - it should retrigger it
Feb 19 21:03:23 <SpeedEvil> umm
Feb 19 21:03:30 <SpeedEvil> Unsure.
Feb 19 21:03:33 <SpeedEvil> I don't think so
Feb 19 21:03:43 <SpeedEvil> a lot of the time I had fbreader open and it seemed ok
Feb 19 21:04:07 <ShadowJK> Sometimes it seems I've been able to "force" an update by tapping the status bar to open the status menu's bigger battery icon :)
Feb 19 21:07:03 <ShadowJK> There are also chips available where the "magic" is in the chip itself :)
Feb 19 21:07:51 <sobczyk_> why there is no middle repository between the poor extras and sometimes broken extras-devel?
Feb 19 21:08:00 <SpeedEvil> I need to teach strace how to understand shit.
Feb 19 21:08:02 <SpeedEvil> ioctls
Feb 19 21:08:13 <ifreq> sobczyk_: there is testing..
Feb 19 21:08:46 <sobczyk_> ifreq, It has the same packages as -devel
Feb 19 21:09:13 <ifreq> not all
Feb 19 21:09:21 <sobczyk_> whatI'm referring to are the broken pyqt
Feb 19 21:09:23 <ifreq> not everyone package from devel has been promoted to testing
Feb 19 21:11:37 <lcuk> sobczyk_, -testing is that middle ground
Feb 19 21:11:48 <lcuk> sometimes tho the wrong thing can be pushed up
Feb 19 21:11:54 <lcuk> and since you can only have 1 in testing
Feb 19 21:12:02 <lcuk> it just replaces and then makes vanish
Feb 19 21:12:07 <lcuk> if you demote
Feb 19 21:19:42 <sobczyk_> some packages have bad dependencies
Feb 19 21:20:55 <thresh> how do i read image alt text in microb?
Feb 19 21:21:04 <thresh> e.g. how do i read xkcd
Feb 19 21:21:38 <lcuk> You want me to pick up waffle cones? Oh, right, for the wine. One sec, let me just derive your son's credit card number and I'll be on my way." alt="Principle of Explosion
Feb 19 21:21:51 <sobczyk_> ie. ankiqt in extras-devel lacks python2.5-qt4-gui and more, and it fails during launch probably because of a pyqt bug
Feb 19 21:22:05 <ifreq> sobczyk_: then contact the builder
Feb 19 21:22:11 <ifreq> err maintainer
Feb 19 21:22:31 <thresh> lcuk: okay, i'll poke you on monday then :D
Feb 19 21:22:45 <lcuk> thresh, just ask in chan
Feb 19 21:22:50 <lcuk> its easiest method
Feb 19 21:23:00 <thresh> helpful community, loving it
Feb 19 21:23:02 <lcuk> ive had it answered for me numerous times
Feb 19 21:24:14 <lcuk> xkcd is the only place people ask, we should get upstream to change their site ;)
Feb 19 21:26:36 <sobczyk_> anyone tried the adblock and/or greasemonkey?
Feb 19 21:27:08 <sobczyk_> whether they slow down the browser or not
Feb 19 21:27:18 <greenfly> sobczyk_: I had to blow away the addon dir first before it worked for me
Feb 19 21:27:26 <SpeedEvil> adblock may speed it up
Feb 19 21:28:03 <sobczyk_> greasemonkey could be used for alt in xkcd :)
Feb 19 21:29:22 <AntiXpucT> hi there
Feb 19 21:31:01 <AntiXpucT> anybody knows, where i can get ipv6 module and some repository with zsh-4.3.10 (and other soft) for fremantle (Maemo 5)?
Feb 19 21:37:55 <cehteh> grr bouncer switch
Feb 19 21:39:56 <Stskeeps> things i'd never think i'd hear myself think: "oh, i have a too old version of DSME".
Feb 19 21:40:48 <lcuk> AntiXpucT, i dont know specifically, at fosdem i heard someone talking about ipv6 modules for n900
Feb 19 21:47:46 <thresh> hmmmm
Feb 19 21:48:07 <thresh> enter doesnt work in mutt2 while launched in screen
Feb 19 21:48:12 <thresh> any ideas?
Feb 19 21:48:22 <cehteh> \o/ new bouncer ...
Feb 19 21:48:22 <thresh> every other app seem to be ok
Feb 19 21:48:40 <cehteh> hehe someone asked me for the same problem earlier
Feb 19 21:49:04 <cehteh> the enter key on the n900 is kp-enter not return .. you have to be creative and remap that somehow
Feb 19 21:49:06 <thresh> at least thats not a local misconfig then :)
Feb 19 21:49:11 <thresh> okay
Feb 19 21:49:38 <lcuk> holy crap, http://www.smartertechnology.com/images/stories/LGexpo.jpg
Feb 19 21:49:46 <lcuk> next we will get warp nacells on the sides of cell phones.
Feb 19 21:50:12 <Stskeeps> wtf
Feb 19 21:50:13 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 19 21:50:13 * lcuk can just imagine the new nokia N1701 boldly going where no phone has gone before
Feb 19 21:50:45 <lcuk> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/02/19/219245/Considering-Cheaper-Pico-Projectors-As-Standard-Equipment-On-Cell-Phones?from=twitter
Feb 19 22:03:46 <cehteh> http://bip.t1r.net/ ++ ... irc bouncer which allows one to share a connection on multiple clients
Feb 19 22:09:01 <red> damn
Feb 19 22:09:21 <red> javispedro needs to add turbokey support to dr noksnes
Feb 19 22:09:39 <red> or a way to slow the actual game, not just fpa
Feb 19 22:09:41 <red> fps
Feb 19 22:10:14 <red> impossible to beat soda guzzling in chrono trigger cause n900 cant register keytaps fast enough heh
Feb 19 22:10:42 <red> piss easy on snes but cant get more than 3 on n900 x)
Feb 19 22:11:06 <cehteh> hmpf ... with listening webradio you can kill the battery in 4 hours
Feb 19 22:11:21 <lcuk> cehteh, mm?
Feb 19 22:11:23 <cehteh> (and doing some other stuff)
Feb 19 22:11:25 <lcuk> listening via what method?
Feb 19 22:11:36 <lcuk> browser+flash?
Feb 19 22:11:36 <cehteh> mediaplayer aac 64k stream
Feb 19 22:11:38 <lcuk> or normal
Feb 19 22:12:04 <lcuk> mm screen alive?
Feb 19 22:12:28 <cehteh> not all time, well i was working on setting up new bouncer and xchat
Feb 19 22:12:32 <lcuk> it sounds more like powersaving features on wifi actually
Feb 19 22:13:13 <cehteh> having wifi powersaving on average not max because thats unreliabe
Feb 19 22:13:40 <lcuk> cehteh, is this the first time you have tried it
Feb 19 22:13:51 <cehteh> but when not listening webradio, just leaving wlan/irc/skype connected it would last quite long
Feb 19 22:14:13 <cehteh> usually i leave it plugged in the charger when i can
Feb 19 22:14:52 <lcuk> you are like me
Feb 19 22:15:03 <lcuk> ive gotten lazy recently
Feb 19 22:15:09 <cehteh> heh
Feb 19 22:15:19 <cehteh> i just want to test it this time
Feb 19 22:15:21 <lcuk> i just top em up when i notice
Feb 19 22:15:31 <lcuk> and neither have died
Feb 19 22:15:36 <cehteh> its now at 20%
Feb 19 22:16:16 <ShadowJK> how is that lazy?
Feb 19 22:16:17 <cehteh> is there some way to query the dsp load?
Feb 19 22:16:17 <lcuk> i was playin music all day on mine actually
Feb 19 22:16:27 <lcuk> i only realised it wasnt plugged in when i went out
Feb 19 22:16:35 <ShadowJK> n900 doesn't use dsp for audio
Feb 19 22:16:42 <cehteh> i would like to know which codec is most power friendly
Feb 19 22:16:49 <cehteh> ah
Feb 19 22:16:57 <lcuk> ShadowJK, i used to just sit down and plug in
Feb 19 22:16:58 <cehteh> i thought it does with the mediaplayer
Feb 19 22:17:10 <lcuk> but dropping 2 phones down i cant be arsed
Feb 19 22:17:14 <lcuk> the wires are messy
Feb 19 22:17:37 <ShadowJK> http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/
Feb 19 22:17:59 <cehteh> yes i know that
Feb 19 22:21:04 <cehteh> mp3 has dropouts ...
Feb 19 22:21:53 <cehteh> intresting how all codecs sound differently :P
Feb 19 22:22:07 <cehteh> (at low bandwidth)
Feb 19 22:22:18 <cehteh> each had differnt kinds of artifacts
Feb 19 22:22:21 <ShadowJK> yes
Feb 19 22:22:54 * SpeedEvil stabs mp2.
Feb 19 22:24:29 <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting
Feb 19 22:25:27 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Feb 19 22:25:49 <cehteh> 128k aac sounds really good at least ..
Feb 19 22:26:14 <cehteh> the downside when you listen with a good headphone is that you notice crappy encoding
Feb 19 22:26:36 <SpeedEvil> yeah - mp2 tho :/
Feb 19 22:26:51 <SpeedEvil> I have a lovely DAB radio - it suffers from the transmission somewhat
Feb 19 22:27:18 <SpeedEvil> As in 13h battery life on _LOUD_ - water and dustproof, droppable.
Feb 19 22:27:19 <cehteh> well 128k aac is now at 35-45% cpu @250mhz
Feb 19 22:30:03 <cehteh> if its 64k or 128k makes no much difference on cpu load
Feb 19 22:42:41 <simula_> does anyone know if the cpp-dev package has been optified?
Feb 19 22:43:48 <jebba> gah, i need the pr1.1 zImage....
Feb 19 22:47:23 <cehteh> does the n900 beep, blink or something like that when battery goes low? here i never seen that
Feb 19 22:47:34 <lcuk> cehteh, does for me
Feb 19 22:47:38 <Unksi>  cehteh havent notice any behaviour like that
Feb 19 22:48:01 <cehteh> lcuk: when? at the first warning/red bar on the battery or later?
Feb 19 22:48:10 <simula_> ahhh, i see that the cpp dev tools are designed for the sdk environment and won't be optified :P
Feb 19 22:48:12 <lcuk> then its about to die
Feb 19 22:48:16 <lcuk> and every few minutes
Feb 19 22:48:25 <lcuk> until it actually makes one final last gasp attempt
Feb 19 22:48:32 <lcuk> and tells you to recharge IMMEDIATELY
Feb 19 22:48:35 <lcuk> and then dies
Feb 19 22:48:51 <cehteh> maybe because i disabled system sounds
Feb 19 22:48:59 <lcuk> that seems likely
Feb 19 22:49:07 <Unksi> could be, i have them disabled as well
Feb 19 22:49:08 <lcuk> but it has banners
Feb 19 22:49:17 <lcuk> its a strange noise tho
Feb 19 22:49:21 <lcuk> like a wounded animal
Feb 19 22:49:21 * SpeedEvil wonders how many people have a 'ping' command that they use when they lose the phone, but it responds to pings
Feb 19 22:49:36 <Corsac> SpeedEvil: which replies with gps coordinates
Feb 19 22:49:47 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, commonly i just ring it
Feb 19 22:50:23 <cehteh> arrg system sounds are annoying
Feb 19 22:50:59 <cehteh> there should be a difference between warnings and noisce
Feb 19 22:51:44 <SpeedEvil> yeah. warnings should all have monster noises from DOOM II.
Feb 19 22:52:03 <cehteh> or just good old 'beep'
Feb 19 22:52:37 <cehteh> but not woosh, zzzip, fuuuppf, brrmg
Feb 19 22:53:03 <lcuk> whaaa haaa is my phone in here, i just heard it?
Feb 19 22:54:02 <AntiXpucT> hmmm... anybody knows, if maemo will work fine with Debian testing repo? ;)
Feb 19 22:55:32 <villager> AntiXpucT: well, considering it doesn't even work with stable...
Feb 19 22:56:33 <AntiXpucT> :(
Feb 19 23:00:36 <cehteh> best way to drain the battery is angry birds at least
Feb 19 23:02:16 * Wizzup wishes firefox mobile had a flashblock extension
Feb 19 23:02:50 <cehteh> is it usable meanwhile?
Feb 19 23:03:47 <Wizzup> what,firefox?
Feb 19 23:04:06 <cehteh> yes
Feb 19 23:04:17 <cehteh> i mean as in compareable performance to microb
Feb 19 23:04:49 <Wizzup> I use it often. It is a bit less responsive but I like it more
Feb 19 23:05:13 <Wizzup> Once it is started, it's pretty good
Feb 19 23:05:18 <gouverneur> cehteh: plugging in usb to charge helps to drain aswell...
Feb 19 23:05:24 <Wizzup> The awesome bar is a bit slow, but it has always has been
Feb 19 23:05:34 <cehteh> gouverneur: huh?
Feb 19 23:05:36 <gouverneur> the charging bug is still unverified...
Feb 19 23:05:42 <Lunixed> noob question ? whats maemo? where is the faq page for the ultimate beginners ?
Feb 19 23:05:54 <cehteh> gouverneur: i had no problems with that
Feb 19 23:06:10 <cehteh> my first device actually had a broken charger and i had to charge via usb
Feb 19 23:07:16 <Wizzup> cehteh: It's a lot faster when it's actually started
Feb 19 23:07:35 <gouverneur> cehteh: it doesnt charge enough with usb, what it did a while ago, maybe I just reflash and start all over again... device discharges when full and plugged to wall-charger
Feb 19 23:07:40 <Lunixed> is it like a VM ? like we can emulate phone softs and can make phone softs using maemo ?
Feb 19 23:08:12 <cehteh> gouverneur: you have to ensure that the charing led blinking and it tells that its charging
Feb 19 23:08:25 <cehteh> sometimes it fails to recognize the usb cable
Feb 19 23:08:31 <cehteh> then just replug
Feb 19 23:08:34 <gouverneur> Lunixed: maemo is an OS based on Debian 3 and is a full blown linux running on mobile devices by nokia
Feb 19 23:09:09 <Lunixed> which all devicec it suports ?
Feb 19 23:09:18 <gouverneur> cehteh: had it as charging only, and ran out of battery within minutes
Feb 19 23:09:21 <SpeedEvil> Lunixed: only the ones it comes on normally
Feb 19 23:09:31 <SpeedEvil> Lunixed: n770, n800,n810,n900
Feb 19 23:09:33 <cehteh> strange never happend to me
Feb 19 23:09:35 <gouverneur> Lunixed: Nxxx
Feb 19 23:09:44 <Lunixed> ok ...
Feb 19 23:10:13 <Lunixed> is there an SDK of it, so we cna develope softwares for it ?
Feb 19 23:10:20 <Lunixed> in our native computer ?
Feb 19 23:10:22 <SpeedEvil> Lunixed: yes
Feb 19 23:10:25 <gouverneur> cehteh: just happend a few minutes ago... wifi and gsm on nothing running in background
Feb 19 23:10:53 <cehteh> mhm
Feb 19 23:10:55 <SpeedEvil> gouverneur: GSM data transferring?
Feb 19 23:11:21 <cehteh> its known that the device can draw more power than usb can provide
Feb 19 23:11:41 <gouverneur> SpeedEvil: you are kidding? wifi on + gprs/edge/umts?
Feb 19 23:11:41 <cehteh> but only in burst situations .. while booting, 3g, whatever
Feb 19 23:11:44 <gouverneur> what for
Feb 19 23:12:11 <SpeedEvil> gouverneur: hmm - true - the defauklt software doesn't do that.
Feb 19 23:12:30 <cehteh> and the device has to acknowledge usb with the host to be able to get enough current
Feb 19 23:12:42 <cehteh> if that fails then its barely not charging (100ma)
Feb 19 23:12:47 <cehteh> if even
Feb 19 23:12:49 <Lunixed> so now what developement is going on in maemo community ? the core code of the sdk, platform or something new based on the SDK ?
Feb 19 23:12:49 <gouverneur> cehteh: shown current is 500mA
Feb 19 23:12:56 <cehteh> where shown?
Feb 19 23:12:59 <SpeedEvil> gouverneur: I could see it just about outrunning the charger if it's - say - bridging wifi to 3g - actively - with display on
Feb 19 23:13:16 <gouverneur> Lunixed: would you mind to read maemo.org?
Feb 19 23:13:32 <cehteh> mhm i am now at 0mah and still no warning ...
Feb 19 23:13:41 <cehteh> prolly a good time to let it reset the counter
Feb 19 23:14:06 <Lunixed> Well , sorry but what I understood was , everyone creating new cool aaps using the SDK
Feb 19 23:14:11 * cehteh playing angry birds to get the battery down
Feb 19 23:14:17 <gouverneur> SpeedEvil: I just tried with empty batt again and even turned off active connections like IM
Feb 19 23:14:30 <gouverneur> Lunixed: true
Feb 19 23:14:46 <gouverneur> cehteh: lshal
Feb 19 23:14:53 <SpeedEvil> gouverneur: :/
Feb 19 23:14:57 <Lunixed> nice gouverneur , thanks for help, I am looking forward to it :)
Feb 19 23:14:59 <cehteh> gouverneur: i know
Feb 19 23:15:21 <cehteh> ah now i got a bing
Feb 19 23:15:36 <SpeedEvil> For that web 2.0 mobile-web experience! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Domain-Name-sporadic-web-com_W0QQitemZ190374009771QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_Services?hash=item2c532cdbab
Feb 19 23:16:27 <gouverneur> cehteh: transfering files to 1st and 2nd flash-device helped me *bing* the batt
Feb 19 23:16:48 <cehteh> flash needs power :)
Feb 19 23:17:37 <gouverneur> well it does but it should be able to charge with running flash, and it does if the device is turned off
Feb 19 23:17:47 <cehteh> works for me
Feb 19 23:17:58 <cehteh> was that transient or always for you?
Feb 19 23:18:08 <gouverneur> cehteh: maybe I should reflash, and try again
Feb 19 23:18:32 <cehteh> how should reflash help there? did you tweaked a lot?
Feb 19 23:19:11 <gouverneur> when I got the device it was charging from usb, then I recognized that it discharged while on wall-charger and after that it didnt charge enough from usb...
Feb 19 23:20:11 <cehteh>   battery.charge_level.percentage = 0  (0x0)  (int)
Feb 19 23:20:21 * GeneralAntilles bangs head on wall at http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=457307
Feb 19 23:20:30 <GeneralAntilles> RESOLVED FIXED (for certain values of FIXED)
Feb 19 23:21:04 <cehteh> rofl
Feb 19 23:21:20 <gouverneur> cehteh: no tweaks yet, I installed some software, some from testing, one from devel... what I did... was I plugged the 2nd flash
Feb 19 23:21:42 <gouverneur> maybe its the flash card....
Feb 19 23:22:06 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, extras-devel IS for nightlies
Feb 19 23:22:15 <gouverneur> but that does not explain why it is discharging the batt while on wall-charger
Feb 19 23:22:44 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, please not the timestamp on the comment, thanks.
Feb 19 23:22:48 <lcuk> its for anytime a project would like to share binaries with developers
Feb 19 23:23:04 <lcuk> heh
Feb 19 23:23:17 <lcuk> i was more shocked at the high bug number
Feb 19 23:23:22 <lcuk> you normally post maemo ones ;)
Feb 19 23:23:52 <cehteh> gouverneur: the device essentially runs from battery, always even if plugged into charger
Feb 19 23:24:14 <cehteh> you cant run it without battery
Feb 19 23:24:15 <gouverneur> but it shouldnt discharge, should it?
Feb 19 23:24:24 <cehteh> yes it does
Feb 19 23:24:35 <cehteh> liion doesnt like trickle charge
Feb 19 23:24:49 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, the comment is from 2008, there was no -testing open then and Extras-devel wouldn't have been appropriate for nightlies.
Feb 19 23:24:59 <cehteh> so it runs on battery until it drops below 90% and then recharges again
Feb 19 23:25:03 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories
Feb 19 23:25:08 <GeneralAntilles> But apparently Mozilla just doesn't care.
Feb 19 23:25:20 * lcuk nods
Feb 19 23:25:28 <lcuk> i know
Feb 19 23:25:29 <gouverneur> but not down to 84% and once it was stuck at 94% and a reboot set it down to some 6x
Feb 19 23:25:35 <cehteh> ok .. systems sounds disabled turn off the battery bing
Feb 19 23:25:56 <cehteh> gouverneur: looks strange .. maybe your usb port comes loose?
Feb 19 23:26:27 <cehteh> data connections still connected but vcc gone out for lunch?
Feb 19 23:27:00 <GeneralAntilles> gouverneur, realize that voltage (and thus battery percentage) can vary quite a bit depending on a large number of external factors.
Feb 19 23:27:04 <gouverneur> cehteh: thats with wall-charger and usb-cradle but its charging from off to full and transfering xxGB of data
Feb 19 23:27:48 <gouverneur> GeneralAntilles: 10% isnt my case... 20% is the case and thats way from normal
Feb 19 23:27:59 <GeneralAntilles> gouverneur, according to whom?
Feb 19 23:28:44 <cehteh> hah the battery almost empty warning stops the media player
Feb 19 23:28:56 <gouverneur> testing
Feb 19 23:29:13 <GeneralAntilles> cehteh, playback may be keeping the DSP alive which would reduce battery life noticeably.
Feb 19 23:29:13 * cehteh starts recharging 
Feb 19 23:29:39 <cehteh> sure .. just surprised me
Feb 19 23:29:59 <cehteh> well someone told earlier that audio doesnt use the dsp .. what now? ..
Feb 19 23:30:04 <cehteh> well uses CPU at least
Feb 19 23:30:14 <javispedro> yep
Feb 19 23:30:21 <gouverneur> GeneralAntilles: according to what all kinds of batteries do 10% I expect 20% make me think
Feb 19 23:30:31 <javispedro> since it seems that using the dsp would reduce battery life
Feb 19 23:30:42 <javispedro> but on the other side now the CPU is more busy :(
Feb 19 23:31:08 <gouverneur> I need to rest, will check back 2mo, n8
Feb 19 23:31:50 <javispedro> I'd prefer a order-of-magnitude more complex one where the CPU is used only when it's idle (namely, a modern multi processor system :P )
Feb 19 23:32:32 <cehteh> heh .. a spider just came down from the ceiling in front of me ...
Feb 19 23:34:22 <cehteh> where does battery-eye store its database?
Feb 19 23:35:49 * GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk @ wiki.meego.com again.
Feb 19 23:36:56 * cehteh doesnt follow that
Feb 19 23:37:22 <GeneralAntilles> Can't edit because it claims I need to confirm my email address.
Feb 19 23:37:25 <javispedro> I though the arm port thing would be done by now
Feb 19 23:37:32 <GeneralAntilles> Which I've already done
Feb 19 23:38:35 <cehteh> btw whats with Mer after the meego merger? will mer catch up or part and go its own way?
Feb 19 23:41:05 <cehteh>  $ DISPLAY=10.20.40.101:0 python /opt/battery-eye/beye.py
Feb 19 23:41:07 <cehteh> ...
Feb 19 23:41:12 <cehteh> Segmentation Fault
Feb 19 23:41:16 <cehteh> \o/ python
Feb 19 23:52:36 <GeneralAntilles> Gotta love that SIO2 thread.
Feb 20 00:04:47 <cehteh> mhm .. we need a volunteer to hildonize xchat, just the scrollers
Feb 20 00:05:20 <SpeedEvil> cehteh: also chanlist would be good
Feb 20 00:05:45 <cehteh> yes chanlist, chat window and while at it, user-list
Feb 20 00:06:06 <ShadowJK> cehteh, Stskeeps has been encouraging
Feb 20 00:06:12 <ShadowJK> Mer people to join Meego :)
Feb 20 00:06:41 <cehteh> ah
Feb 20 00:09:16 <ptl> where do I find swfdec for the N900?
Feb 20 00:09:46 <villager> hmm, can't seem to figure out how to adjust the camera's white balance without using nokia's binary blob for the camera
Feb 20 00:12:06 <ShadowJK> strace it to see what it does?
Feb 20 00:12:12 <ShadowJK> or maybe it's done in software
Feb 20 00:12:15 <cehteh> get a big bat, visit TI and ask kindly
Feb 20 00:13:08 <cehteh> ShadowJK: doing that in software would be quite lossy
Feb 20 00:13:48 <villager> ShadowJK: my testing seems to indicate it's not software, since using the builtin camera-ui can change how my v4l2 app looks
Feb 20 00:14:17 <cehteh> yes that should be done on the camera or dsp
Feb 20 00:14:34 <ShadowJK> strace
Feb 20 00:14:55 <villager> where to get strace? extras-devel?
Feb 20 00:14:58 <cehteh> strace the camera controler? dsp? :)
Feb 20 00:15:27 <cehteh>  500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free Packages
Feb 20 00:15:30 <ShadowJK> well the command must go down through some user space app :D
Feb 20 00:16:00 <cehteh> ShadowJK: yeah but that will be likely just a write or poke into some register with some magic values
Feb 20 00:16:05 <villager> I thought you weren't supposed to enable the tools repo on the device itself... well, can try
Feb 20 00:16:28 <cehteh> possible to reverse engineer .. but pita that we have to do this .. hence the big bat
Feb 20 00:16:39 <andre__> villager, you can, e.g. for getting some debug tools
Feb 20 00:16:44 <ShadowJK> nah tools repo has useful things
Feb 20 00:16:44 <cehteh> villager: just careful with installing
Feb 20 00:16:47 <andre__> and for testing
Feb 20 00:16:51 <ShadowJK> like crash-reporter
Feb 20 00:17:07 <cehteh> yes tools has a lot useful things, not optified but most are small anyways
Feb 20 00:19:26 <ds3> fresh from teh factory, how much free space is available on the N900?
Feb 20 00:20:39 <SpeedEvil> ~30G or so
Feb 20 00:21:02 <ds3> ooh... plenty of room to provide a N800 binary/chroot
Feb 20 00:21:50 <SpeedEvil> I don't know if that'd work.
Feb 20 00:21:54 <SpeedEvil> but if it would - sure.
Feb 20 00:21:57 <ds3> why?
Feb 20 00:22:25 <SpeedEvil> different processor?
Feb 20 00:22:28 <cehteh> there is no debootstrap .. but manual chroot would be worth a try
Feb 20 00:22:53 <cehteh> SpeedEvil: isnt the n800 processor a subset of the n900 one?
Feb 20 00:23:09 * cehteh was thinking about chrooting the sdk on the micro sd ... 
Feb 20 00:23:11 <ShadowJK> except for the dsp, yeah
Feb 20 00:23:18 <cehteh> (n900 sdk .. that would be safe)
Feb 20 00:23:45 <cehteh> having gcc and stuff on the device without risking the system
Feb 20 00:24:17 * cehteh wonders if someone may package such
Feb 20 00:24:27 <cehteh> well n900 really lacks developers :/
Feb 20 00:24:42 <cehteh> (the ones who do useful stuff, not games and toys)
Feb 20 00:25:07 * cehteh waits for a sharing plugin for ssh (scp sftp ..)
Feb 20 00:25:07 <ShadowJK> I have next week off :D
Feb 20 00:25:18 * ShadowJK hopes hell have time for code
Feb 20 00:25:52 <cehteh> maybe i have to write it by myself grr .. have other things to do
Feb 20 00:26:08 <cehteh> at least the xchat thing is done now :>
Feb 20 00:45:12 <AntiXpucT> hmmm i've a strange bug: when i was reboot few hours ago after installing lot of soft an using device for some time - i was wandered, that "ctrl+space" don't switch keyboard layout now. it switsh between opened windows.
Feb 20 00:45:55 <AntiXpucT> but if i try to using "on screen" Ctrl button in X terminal - kb layout switchin normally...
Feb 20 00:47:07 <AntiXpucT> btw, Fn key don't "stick" now :((
Feb 20 00:47:39 <villager> friggin' yay... strace won't help much, it's a private ioctl which is just used to encapsulates a command passed to a binary driver blob
Feb 20 00:48:35 <cehteh> villager: somehow i expected that :P
Feb 20 00:48:47 <cehteh> well you can dump the ioctl
Feb 20 00:49:15 <cehteh> -- or get a big bat
Feb 20 00:49:36 <villager> not easily I suspect... the ioctl points to a structure which contains an embedded pointer to the real request
Feb 20 00:50:02 <cehteh> yeah thats pita
Feb 20 00:52:55 <villager> maybe I'll just have to give in and use the gstreamer plugin that interfaces with the proprietary module
Feb 20 00:53:07 <cehteh> for what?
Feb 20 00:53:16 <villager> to adjust the white balance and stuff?
Feb 20 00:53:25 <cehteh> i mean for what app
Feb 20 00:53:51 <villager> well, it's for my hobby project... CyborgEye
Feb 20 00:54:21 <cehteh> prolly a good idea to use gstreamer for that, every firmware update may change the ioctl
Feb 20 00:55:14 <villager> the regular v4l2src gstreamer plugin on the pc didn't offer nearly as much control over the camera as direct v4l2 did
Feb 20 00:55:34 <villager> I suppose it might be different with nokia extensions
Feb 20 00:57:28 <Arif_> moo
Feb 20 01:05:28 <GeneralAntilles> At, classic. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=537596#post537596
Feb 20 01:08:31 <pwnguin> GeneralAntilles: an opportunity to pimp Mer?
Feb 20 01:11:33 <GeneralAntilles> pwnguin, why bother with trolls? ;)
Feb 20 01:12:40 <N900evil> GeneralAntilles, I do agree a more public roadmap would be good.
Feb 20 01:14:08 <GeneralAntilles> N900evil, I agree.
Feb 20 01:14:15 <GeneralAntilles> N900evil, but do you really think the business people will notice?
Feb 20 01:14:29 <GeneralAntilles> They'd rather not even have a public bugzilla.
Feb 20 01:14:40 <N900evil> prolly not
Feb 20 01:15:21 <N900evil> and not have these annoying unwashed people coding stuff.
Feb 20 01:15:31 <javispedro> Considering every announcement gets hordes of idiots at the hq doors, if I were a I-don't-understand-what-the-benefits-are business manager I wouldn't want to have a public anything.
Feb 20 01:15:54 <N900evil> phones that can be coded in powerpoint.
Feb 20 01:19:08 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, death to the dinosaurs.
Feb 20 01:23:02 <ponyofdeath> hi, guys having issues with my new sms tones seems that even if I have it set to an diff wave that i have uploaded it defaults back to alert 1 anyone have any ideas?
Feb 20 01:23:10 <javispedro> bah, damn X11 with lousy utf8 support.
Feb 20 01:24:30 <luke-jr> javispedro: you mean Maemo?
Feb 20 01:24:34 <luke-jr> X11 works fine with Unicode
Feb 20 01:25:15 <javispedro> I mean the stupid Xutf8* functions
Feb 20 01:28:06 * javispedro ponders doing something evil like copying the keysym<->unichar table gdk uses
Feb 20 01:31:09 <javispedro> uh
Feb 20 01:31:23 * luke-jr doesn't know anything about Xlib
Feb 20 01:31:49 <javispedro> can anyone with an international keyboard on n900 try to see if the autocompleter dictionary cares about dead keys in qt apps?
Feb 20 01:31:59 <javispedro> qPrintable is evil
Feb 20 01:49:35 <AntiXpucT> is there any russians with "white" n900?
Feb 20 01:50:14 <GeneralAntilles> N900 only comes in black
Feb 20 01:50:22 <AntiXpucT> it is no color ;)
Feb 20 01:50:37 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, prolly "white" is a special russian thing
Feb 20 01:50:46 <GeneralAntilles> Right then
Feb 20 01:51:00 <AntiXpucT> "white" means "official", "gray" - "unofficial"
Feb 20 01:51:10 <GeneralAntilles> Aha
Feb 20 01:52:30 <AntiXpucT> i need /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx51 file from originally firmware of russian official n900
Feb 20 01:52:42 <DocScrutinizer> in southern korea you'll go to jail for using a "gray" cellphone - i.e. one not approved by the carrier
Feb 20 01:52:57 <AntiXpucT> due to in other versions - it is bad keymap
Feb 20 01:53:52 <AntiXpucT> (i've lost original while update maemo from 1.x (default) to 3.x (in maemo.org/extras repo)
Feb 20 01:54:28 <AntiXpucT> s/maemo/Maemo5/
Feb 20 01:54:28 <infobot> AntiXpucT meant: (i've lost original while update Maemo5 from 1.x (default) to 3.x (in maemo.org/extras repo)
Feb 20 01:55:04 <AntiXpucT> infobot, good bot ;)
Feb 20 01:55:05 <infobot> thanks, AntiXpucT
Feb 20 01:58:39 <cehteh> s/good/bad/
Feb 20 01:59:09 <cehteh> s/bad/dumb/
Feb 20 01:59:28 <cehteh> :P
Feb 20 02:11:19 <jaem_n900> evening, all
Feb 20 02:12:01 <jaem_n900> can someone refresh my memory on how to pull a WPA key out of the gconf db?  I'm at a friend's place, and forget that my laptop doesn't have it saved (but my N900 does)
Feb 20 02:12:23 <jaem_n900> I've only ever used the GConf Editor app for Diablo
Feb 20 02:13:13 <cehteh> doesnt gconf store normal xml files on disk?
Feb 20 02:13:51 <jaem_n900> cehteh, oh - yes... I'd forgotten that (KDE user)
Feb 20 02:13:55 <jaem_n900> ha
Feb 20 02:14:19 <cehteh> well dont ask me where
Feb 20 02:14:36 <jaem_n900> I just found it, now that you pointed out that bit :)
Feb 20 02:14:38 <jaem_n900> thanks!
Feb 20 02:14:48 <cehteh> where is that?
Feb 20 02:15:10 <jaem_n900> give me a sec...
Feb 20 02:15:24 <jaem_n900> last post: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=22235
Feb 20 02:15:58 <cehteh> thanks
Feb 20 02:22:55 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody needs to go beat up one of the business people from Nokia.
Feb 20 02:23:01 <GeneralAntilles> They really need to issue a statement one way or the other.
Feb 20 02:24:20 <Hydroxide> GeneralAntilles: ECONTEXT - is this about post-Fremantle N900 support or something else?
Feb 20 02:26:01 <cehteh> GeneralAntilles: revolution -- let us all intentionally code only for maemo5 (instead stopping the bug filing)
Feb 20 02:26:08 <cehteh> :)
Feb 20 02:26:18 <GeneralAntilles> Hydroxide, yeah, that.
Feb 20 02:26:41 <Hydroxide> GeneralAntilles: agreed. they're not very much in the habit of giving clear signals to the community. to say the least.
Feb 20 02:26:51 <LinuxCode> will maemo merge with moblin or what will happen ?
Feb 20 02:27:08 <LinuxCode> I guess that is what you guys are talking about
Feb 20 02:27:12 <Hydroxide> cehteh: you mean put in checks to prevent it running on future versions? diabolical :)
Feb 20 02:27:16 <cehteh> they dont really understand what community and maintaining it means
Feb 20 02:27:29 <Hydroxide> LinuxCode: they have announced that much, yes
Feb 20 02:27:30 <LinuxCode> also, Intel "apparently" switched to rpm
Feb 20 02:27:45 <LinuxCode> a few months before that announcement
Feb 20 02:27:47 <LinuxCode> hehe
Feb 20 02:27:52 <LinuxCode> all a tad....weird
Feb 20 02:27:54 <cehteh> Hydroxide: not checks, rather hardcode the things which where meant to be dynamically upgradeable
Feb 20 02:28:01 <LinuxCode> I bet some accountants came up with the idea
Feb 20 02:28:06 <LinuxCode> "lets safe money"
Feb 20 02:28:15 <Hydroxide> LinuxCode: right - intel was using deb before, and they switched to rpm to get a feature that deb also supports even if debian isn't currently using it the way they want
Feb 20 02:28:33 <LinuxCode> well, Im not complaining
Feb 20 02:28:35 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Feb 20 02:29:02 <cehteh> i think this merger isnt bad ... but how nokia treats the community is, even dedicated community managers dont get proper response and care
Feb 20 02:29:10 <LinuxCode> but would be nice to know what will happen, before I spend £500 for a brick
Feb 20 02:29:18 <LinuxCode> or rather potential brick
Feb 20 02:29:36 <Hydroxide> well, I'm not complaining about the RPM decision primarily because it would serve no useful purpose to do so, and it really is a minor detail assuming they were already going to stop using debian as upstream.
Feb 20 02:29:43 <cehteh> well i spend the money because the device is open enough not to end as a brick
Feb 20 02:29:54 <Hydroxide> cehteh: yes, agreed
Feb 20 02:29:55 <cehteh> but still left with a bad taste
Feb 20 02:30:07 <LinuxCode> cehteh, N900... open ?
Feb 20 02:30:15 <LinuxCode> gps chips, phone stuff...
Feb 20 02:30:22 <LinuxCode> is that accessible from mer ?
Feb 20 02:30:23 <cehteh> open enough ... i didnt say its completely open
Feb 20 02:30:27 <LinuxCode> k
Feb 20 02:30:31 <jaem_n900> cehteh, agreed - and many phones are worse for support, no?
Feb 20 02:30:33 <LinuxCode> see, thats what bugs me
Feb 20 02:30:33 <Hydroxide> LinuxCode: vastly more so than any other full-featured (i.e. not neo frerunner) mobile phone out there
Feb 20 02:30:37 <cehteh> the kernel is not tainted for example
Feb 20 02:30:40 <GeneralAntilles> LinuxCode, yes.
Feb 20 02:30:51 <LinuxCode> they all should make one device, people choose their distro
Feb 20 02:30:58 <luke-jr> LinuxCode: N900 is about 40% open IIRC
Feb 20 02:31:09 <luke-jr> LinuxCode: I agree completely :p
Feb 20 02:31:18 <cehteh> and i will not buy the next device when n900 doesnt get megoo, nokia rather looses a free developer
Feb 20 02:31:28 <LinuxCode> and I guarantee, people would buy such devices...
Feb 20 02:31:33 <cehteh> and i think thats the only way the community can act with this
Feb 20 02:31:42 <luke-jr> LinuxCode: some of us, yes; but mass-market, probably not
Feb 20 02:31:53 <luke-jr> cehteh: I decided that with N810, more or less
Feb 20 02:32:06 <LinuxCode> luke-jr, well, if mainstream linux dev get interested enough
Feb 20 02:32:07 <cehteh> the n810 was less open than the n900 is
Feb 20 02:32:15 <cehteh> (or still is)
Feb 20 02:32:23 <LinuxCode> more devs, better OS
Feb 20 02:32:43 <LinuxCode> awesome compatibility to sync with desktops
Feb 20 02:32:45 <cehteh> yes, nokia must learn that they depend on the community for the success of the device
Feb 20 02:32:48 <LinuxCode> etc..
Feb 20 02:33:00 <LinuxCode> cehteh, less open ? really ?
Feb 20 02:33:02 <luke-jr> LinuxCode: IMO, they should make devices, provide BSD-licensed reference drivers or specs, then market it to software developers who add software and sell the final product to end users
Feb 20 02:33:21 <LinuxCode> luke-jr, interesting concept
Feb 20 02:33:30 <cehteh> the n810 kernel was tainted iirc (i dont own one)
Feb 20 02:33:32 <GeneralAntilles> LinuxCode, yes, the N810 and Diablo are significantly less open than the N900 and Fremantle.
Feb 20 02:33:36 <LinuxCode> but.... then we end up with Vodafone OS
Feb 20 02:33:36 <luke-jr> LinuxCode: N810 was probably 25-30% open
Feb 20 02:33:39 <LinuxCode> etc..
Feb 20 02:34:00 <LinuxCode> GeneralAntilles, well thats good news at least
Feb 20 02:34:08 <luke-jr> well, depends I suppose
Feb 20 02:34:20 <luke-jr> N900 is probably more closed overall, but the closed stuff no longer runs on the main system CPU
Feb 20 02:34:21 <LinuxCode> if it stays a trend
Feb 20 02:34:25 <LinuxCode> maybe thats the whole idea ?
Feb 20 02:34:35 <LinuxCode> Intel could make chips, with foss drivers
Feb 20 02:34:42 <LinuxCode> like they do with their graphics chipsets
Feb 20 02:34:44 <luke-jr> Intel? please no
Feb 20 02:34:46 <luke-jr> :p
Feb 20 02:34:52 <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, yeah, no.
Feb 20 02:35:02 <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, your definitions of "open" aren't generally widely accepted.
Feb 20 02:35:06 <luke-jr> GeneralAntilles: afaik, we know nothing about the phone software
Feb 20 02:35:18 <GeneralAntilles> Fremantle is about 80/20 open closed
Feb 20 02:35:29 <LinuxCode> luke-jr, that makes sense though
Feb 20 02:35:32 <luke-jr> GeneralAntilles: not when you weigh software by importance
Feb 20 02:35:37 <acidjazz> so is it true nokia is abandoning maemo
Feb 20 02:35:38 <LinuxCode> bad enough GSM is easy to crack as is
Feb 20 02:35:42 <GeneralAntilles> Weighted percentages . . . yeah
Feb 20 02:35:55 <GeneralAntilles> acidjazz, yes, they're dropping the brand.
Feb 20 02:36:06 <acidjazz> waht do you mena by the brand
Feb 20 02:36:10 <GeneralAntilles> acidjazz, whether or not that means N900 with have Harmattan support is unknown.
Feb 20 02:36:15 * GeneralAntilles sighs.
Feb 20 02:36:17 <jaem_n900> luke-jr, GA's definition is the only objectively quantitative metric I can think of
Feb 20 02:36:22 <acidjazz> harmattan ?
Feb 20 02:36:33 <luke-jr> anyhow,  N900 (and all smartphones) have two CPUs; Nokia moved a good portion of the closed software from the main one to the phone one
Feb 20 02:36:35 <jaem_n900> luke-jr, although I'm not saying I completely disagree
Feb 20 02:36:36 <GeneralAntilles> What used to be Maemo 6.
Feb 20 02:36:50 <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, er . . . yeah
Feb 20 02:37:04 <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, and they're working on open stuff with oFono.
Feb 20 02:37:10 <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, it just wasn't ready in time for Fremantle.
Feb 20 02:37:24 <luke-jr> GeneralAntilles: even an open ofono wouldn't open the code on the phone CPU
Feb 20 02:37:31 <luke-jr> nor do I expect them to
Feb 20 02:37:35 <luke-jr> FCC doesn't allow that
Feb 20 02:37:41 <LinuxCode> ofono, interesting
Feb 20 02:37:59 <luke-jr> at least, not in a useful way
Feb 20 02:38:15 <LinuxCode> luke-jr, but maybe they could just provide a driver to access closed parts
Feb 20 02:38:34 <LinuxCode> Id be happy with that, as long as that driver is foss and ends up in the main kernel
Feb 20 02:38:56 <luke-jr> LinuxCode: yeah
Feb 20 02:39:06 <LinuxCode> well, you know....
Feb 20 02:39:09 <luke-jr> LinuxCode: Nokia has done a lot of improvement for the system CPU with N900
Feb 20 02:39:18 <LinuxCode> as happy as one can be, considering closed-ness
Feb 20 02:39:20 <luke-jr> it might actually get mainline support someday
Feb 20 02:39:31 <luke-jr> N810 was pretty much a lost cause there :(\
Feb 20 02:39:40 <LinuxCode> luke-jr, I still like my n810
Feb 20 02:40:09 <LinuxCode> but forking out £500 is big hurt, if it ends up being useless or exploitable in 2 years or less
Feb 20 02:40:25 <LinuxCode> hurt ?!?!
Feb 20 02:40:26 <LinuxCode> lol
Feb 20 02:40:35 * LinuxCode blames that on 2.40am
Feb 20 02:41:00 * lcuk slides a bottle of beer over @ LinuxCode 
Feb 20 02:41:01 <cehteh> the device will be work at least as goos as it works now in 2 years
Feb 20 02:41:04 <LinuxCode> G, thanks for the ofono link
Feb 20 02:41:15 <cehteh> good
Feb 20 02:41:19 <luke-jr> LinuxCode: I'd pay a good $800 for an open device of the current generation tech
Feb 20 02:41:23 * LinuxCode slides it back and grabs a bottle of nice cider instead
Feb 20 02:41:26 <LinuxCode> thank you lcuk
Feb 20 02:41:40 <LinuxCode> ;-D
Feb 20 02:41:49 <ml-mobile> sadly you're in a distinct minority
Feb 20 02:42:13 <LinuxCode> ml-mobile, you would not want an open device ?
Feb 20 02:42:16 <cehteh> my newton became a brick .. apple discontinued it, i switched to linux with no good support and tools for it
Feb 20 02:42:23 <LinuxCode> or the 800 usd price tag ?
Feb 20 02:42:28 <cehteh> it now sits in a drawer unused
Feb 20 02:42:37 <ml-mobile> the $800 tag
Feb 20 02:42:38 <cehteh> but this wont happen with the n900
Feb 20 02:42:41 <lcuk> cehteh, ive never played on one, where are you?
Feb 20 02:42:50 <cehteh> germany/karlsruhe
Feb 20 02:43:01 <GeneralAntilles> cehteh, well, thankfully Apple didn't release any new software
Feb 20 02:43:05 <lcuk> bit far for a drive lol
Feb 20 02:43:07 <GeneralAntilles> cehteh, so people kept developing for it.
Feb 20 02:43:12 <cehteh> lcuk: where are you?
Feb 20 02:43:20 <lcuk> england manchester
Feb 20 02:43:35 <cehteh> will you be at Linux Audio Conference?
Feb 20 02:43:55 <lcuk> HAHA! no i hadnt heard of it till you said it
Feb 20 02:44:02 <lcuk> but right now im tinkering with alsa code
Feb 20 02:44:08 <LinuxCode> cehteh, had you said ..graphics conference....
Feb 20 02:44:14 <LinuxCode> I bet he would be there in a flash
Feb 20 02:44:19 <cehteh> GeneralAntilles: yes but most things where some payware, shareware, crippleware, nagware
Feb 20 02:44:28 <cehteh> no gnu
Feb 20 02:44:33 <lcuk> LinuxCode, i need some audio
Feb 20 02:44:43 <LinuxCode> lcuk, for liqbase ?
Feb 20 02:44:44 <lcuk> so i can do echo location of multiple devices on a desktop
Feb 20 02:44:46 <lcuk> yeah
Feb 20 02:44:48 <lcuk> liqflow
Feb 20 02:44:51 <LinuxCode> hehe
Feb 20 02:44:53 <GeneralAntilles> cehteh, true
Feb 20 02:45:01 <GeneralAntilles> cehteh, I wouldn't say most.
Feb 20 02:45:04 <GeneralAntilles> cehteh, but yeah.
Feb 20 02:45:10 <cehteh> there is the libre graphics meeting in brussles sometime next .. but i am likely not there
Feb 20 02:45:25 <lcuk> cehteh..
Feb 20 02:45:35 <cehteh> we meet with a lot video software developers at LAC
Feb 20 02:45:46 <lcuk> 2730may
Feb 20 02:45:51 <LinuxCode> cehteh, on a bright note...
Feb 20 02:46:01 <LinuxCode> I had linux on my Jornada 720
Feb 20 02:46:06 <LinuxCode> that was a pain
Feb 20 02:46:33 <LinuxCode> so.... even having an old flash image...is better than using my Jornada 720
Feb 20 02:46:34 <LinuxCode> lol
Feb 20 02:46:57 * cehteh doesnt want pain .. i dont want a hacked Xbox with linux, nor do i want openmoko on a iphone (which still would be a cool slap right into apples face)
Feb 20 02:46:59 <LinuxCode> Ive got this side job lined up, so I probably get a N900 anyway
Feb 20 02:47:28 <LinuxCode> even if it lasts 2 years
Feb 20 02:47:29 <cehteh> but i support hardware where i am supposed to use free software on it
Feb 20 02:47:42 <LinuxCode> cehteh, ;-}
Feb 20 02:48:23 <cehteh> eh .. what entity controls the screen brightness on the n900?
Feb 20 02:48:30 <cehteh> its not mce ..
Feb 20 02:48:44 <cehteh> (at least there is nothing to configure there)
Feb 20 02:49:06 <cehteh> you can turn the screen on and off through mce
Feb 20 02:49:22 <cehteh> but i found no brightness control yet
Feb 20 02:50:05 <lcuk> qwerty released brightness applet
Feb 20 02:50:29 <lcuk> simple-brightness-applet
Feb 20 02:50:33 <lcuk> that will show you
Feb 20 02:51:23 <cehteh> i mean the backend stuff not the 5 levels in front
Feb 20 02:51:36 <cehteh> i constantly switch between level 1 and 2 grr
Feb 20 02:51:44 <cehteh> (using that applet)
Feb 20 02:51:59 <lcuk> does the auto fade thing bug you
Feb 20 02:52:06 <lcuk> its not as noticable on 900 as it was on 810
Feb 20 02:52:09 <lcuk> for me
Feb 20 02:53:26 <cehteh> no .. i want some more control how the (5) brightness levels relate to actual brightness
Feb 20 02:53:58 <cehteh> in dark it can go darker than currently .. in brighter environment it needs to be little brighter
Feb 20 02:54:30 <cehteh> and in really bright sunlight it should switch the backlight completely off since it cant compete with it anyways
Feb 20 02:54:34 <lcuk> meh, he mightv documented methods inside his code
Feb 20 02:54:41 <cehteh> (and it has a transreflexive display)
Feb 20 02:54:49 <cehteh> yes looking at the code
Feb 20 02:58:29 <luke-jr> cehteh: I don't count Nokia's products in the "supposed to use free software on it" category yet
Feb 20 02:59:02 <luke-jr> the first requirement is that I'm actually able to use it with a free software OS
Feb 20 02:59:46 <cehteh> luke-jr: so far its the best match .. rms would prolly disagree but there is no smartphone with an open os which has more free parts based on actual technology (sorry openmoko :P)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 20 02:59:57 2010