**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 28 02:59:57 2010 Feb 28 03:02:41 wtf is the 'rodir' mount option for Feb 28 03:03:00 readonly dirs .. makes no sense to me and my manpages Feb 28 03:03:27 cehteh: sounds like it means you can modify files, but not change their directory entries Feb 28 03:03:49 which is a task only slightly more complex than read-only really Feb 28 03:03:56 so might be able to do it w/o marking the FS dirty Feb 28 03:04:09 the fatfs is mounted with those Feb 28 03:05:48 so probably you can't rewrite "inodes" (which aten't really existing on fat anyway) Feb 28 03:06:07 on a decent fs you can open a dir like any other file Feb 28 03:07:09 for fatfs this sounds like a bad idea Feb 28 03:07:28 oh man sometimes i want to beat the crap out of nokia, this genfstab is fuba Feb 28 03:07:38 LOL Feb 28 03:07:54 i thought i can add my changes nicely Feb 28 03:07:59 just sometimes? Feb 28 03:08:10 genfstab is one of the more insane ideas I ever heard of Feb 28 03:08:29 yeah Feb 28 03:08:41 the kernel can mount by uuid and device and all kinds of things Feb 28 03:09:11 the whole partitioning thing looks someone had no clue and way to much weed Feb 28 03:09:44 * cehteh deletes the genfstab and writes a ordinary fstab on his device Feb 28 03:09:44 yep Feb 28 03:10:09 horray for the big restore action after the next firmware update which will overwrite anything Feb 28 03:10:37 exactly Feb 28 03:11:44 prolly the main reason that has stopped me so far from ruskie repartition right away Feb 28 03:12:03 well with the frequency nokia releases new firmwares this is really not a problem :P Feb 28 03:12:25 though I had a deep look into init.d/rcS yesterday, and wondered and wondered Feb 28 03:12:43 hehe yeah Feb 28 03:13:05 i tweaked it sightly .. Feb 28 03:13:45 # I hate this hack. -- Md Feb 28 03:13:46 .. Feb 28 03:13:49 orly? :) Feb 28 03:13:57 can't see a real reason for _not_ having any of those /usr, /var and what else on /home. And mount home in rcS, then bindmount the whole dirs Feb 28 03:14:22 exactly Feb 28 03:14:27 yeah, went wtf o.O on that Feb 28 03:14:39 there are so much better ways to solve that Feb 28 03:15:06 i always point at eeepc .. which use a unionfs and have a readonly root .. almost unbrickable Feb 28 03:15:10 I actually forgot what that "hack" was all about. Freud? Feb 28 03:15:30 you can boot them with factory defaults no matter how hard you beaten them Feb 28 03:16:45 or just readonly root and bindmount when going up, its not *that* much space to waste on a 32GB Device if you have something of the essentials doubled Feb 28 03:16:56 aaah, make_extra_nodes... hmmm :-S Feb 28 03:17:18 # We can safely continue booting now. Feb 28 03:17:18 initctl emit MOUNTS_OK Feb 28 03:17:32 .. in rcS-late ... i am pretty sure about that... Feb 28 03:17:48 because i commented *everything* before that line out now :P Feb 28 03:18:06 let's see what's in etc/udev/links.conf Feb 28 03:18:45 hrhrhrrrr hhaha Feb 28 03:19:25 i hope busybox mount knows -a Feb 28 03:20:00 DocScrutinizer: lmao :) Feb 28 03:20:32 # This file does not exist. Please do not ask the Debian maintainer about it. Feb 28 03:20:45 i hope there is nothing which deletes fstab at shutdown .. then i am screwed :P Feb 28 03:20:56 (messybox) I *really really* would test that prior to reboot Feb 28 03:20:56 yep that was my lmao Feb 28 03:21:38 i think i prolly wait 1-2 more firmware updates and then part away from nokia anyways Feb 28 03:21:52 most of the hardware works, ok frontcam could be fixed Feb 28 03:22:02 and their software isnt worth the mess Feb 28 03:23:32 modprobe panic_info_buff Feb 28 03:23:32 sleep 1 Feb 28 03:23:32 osso-product-info > /sys/kernel/debug/panic_info_buff Feb 28 03:23:42 way too much weed :P Feb 28 03:25:07 "Hi, I'd like to rent... a... car... the olympic one..." "You mean Audi?" "Yeah, whatever" Feb 28 03:25:40 mount -a works Feb 28 03:26:19 oooh yeah, another WTF?!?! Feb 28 03:26:55 seen what's osso-product-info actually? :-P Feb 28 03:29:14 PI=`which osso-product-info` Feb 28 03:29:15 if [ x$OPI != x ]; then Feb 28 03:29:17 crashanddie: lol Feb 28 03:30:15 ok .. i found that it should umount halfway sane and doesnt delete the fstab Feb 28 03:31:11 lets copy the stuff back and then hope and pray Feb 28 03:32:03 cehteh: check for messybox compatibility first !! Feb 28 03:32:58 there's pretty few commands in messybox really compatible to their toolbox counterparts Feb 28 03:33:00 i did Feb 28 03:33:08 i didnt do much Feb 28 03:33:12 just mount -a Feb 28 03:33:21 and commenting other stuff out Feb 28 03:33:47 I'd not be surprised messybox not knowing -a for mount Feb 28 03:33:51 well and i can only loose MyDocs .. (not the data, the device/mountpoint) Feb 28 03:33:56 so thats really no big deal Feb 28 03:34:03 i tried that Feb 28 03:34:25 hell I'd not even be surprised crappybox not knowing the fstab based mount at all Feb 28 03:34:35 of course the autogenerated fstab has the wrong order too ... Feb 28 03:34:49 nah its not that worse Feb 28 03:35:19 the worst what can happen is that i have to reflash .. the data is all on the uSD Feb 28 03:35:27 and on my laptop Feb 28 03:35:42 ah forgotten to make a fstab entry for the /media mounts Feb 28 03:37:12 given that's hotswap I wonder if it needs an entry in fstab at all Feb 28 03:37:21 and i have to do a big 'chown' too ... Feb 28 03:37:32 i dont hotswap Feb 28 03:37:46 uhm well it gets unmounted when you remove the back cover .. Feb 28 03:37:51 well lets dont care about that Feb 28 03:37:54 really? Feb 28 03:38:01 its just some script glue which can be fixed Feb 28 03:38:02 yes Feb 28 03:38:09 heh that sounds cool Feb 28 03:38:22 its hotswap .. Feb 28 03:38:52 the camera shutter sensor is prolly 3-state .. Feb 28 03:38:58 open, closed, removed Feb 28 03:39:13 nah, it's a hall or reed under the stand magnet Feb 28 03:39:27 nope its no reed Feb 28 03:39:32 its a IR reflex Feb 28 03:39:40 the camslide yes Feb 28 03:39:47 the backlid sense no Feb 28 03:39:58 well maybe thats a reed then Feb 28 03:40:15 i dont look now while copying data :P Feb 28 03:40:23 :-D Feb 28 03:40:47 i once was just surpised after removing and reapplying the cover, the cam reset to internal storage Feb 28 03:40:57 bug xxxxx: uSD unmounts when device placed on a magnet Feb 28 03:41:14 haha Feb 28 03:41:17 lol Feb 28 03:42:07 i already suspected that the device has no compass may have some rather stupid coincidences with all this magnets on the device itself Feb 28 03:42:55 actually I wonder how those *with* compass manage to cope with magnets in vib motor and speakers Feb 28 03:43:02 i doubt that these are compensateable .. moreover the field change when you flip out the stand Feb 28 03:43:20 yes these count as more magenets too Feb 28 03:43:31 while motor and speakers can be pretty well shielded Feb 28 03:43:44 but reeds only work with unshielded magents Feb 28 03:44:21 * DocScrutinizer as well wonders why they haven't used a mech switch for that purpose Feb 28 03:45:09 anyone interested in making a linux build of this? http://code.google.com/p/wtfgame/ Feb 28 03:45:15 esp the camslide is a weird idea to use an IR for that Feb 28 03:45:18 wear, dust .. and the reeds are smd's which can be put from reel on a normal production line Feb 28 03:45:34 cehteh: ack Feb 28 03:45:52 btw copying back data to ext4 feels much faster already Feb 28 03:46:08 cehteh: at least reeds don't consume power all the time Feb 28 03:46:27 well ir reflex power consumption is neglecitble Feb 28 03:46:39 obviously Feb 28 03:46:40 even on this device Feb 28 03:46:50 dracflamloc_: general linux build, or a maemo build? Feb 28 03:47:01 a 1us pulse every 200ms is enough Feb 28 03:47:44 200ms are quite long .. but even every 50ms will do and still only in the uA range Feb 28 03:48:14 and you got a secret service-interface for free ;-P Feb 28 03:48:45 lol Feb 28 03:49:18 arachnist, probably just general linux, maemo would rock too, but i don't know if google's V8 engine works on ARM yet Feb 28 03:50:25 dracflamloc_ - Googles V8 engine should work on both x86 and ARM Feb 28 03:50:40 nice Feb 28 03:50:42 then yea Feb 28 03:50:46 maemo and linux Feb 28 03:51:18 * DocScrutinizer prefers Mercedes V8 engine - the 5L one Feb 28 03:51:19 it'd have to be slightly downscaled for n900, since at the current state its a ram hog, but the worlds are so enourmous a scaled back version would still be pretty cool Feb 28 03:52:20 PID PPID USER STAT RSS %MEM PU COMMAND Feb 28 03:52:20 10 2 root SW 0 0.0 19.8 [omap2_mcspi] Feb 28 03:52:28 .. whats that, the mmc driver? Feb 28 03:52:45 spi Feb 28 03:52:54 hmm Feb 28 03:53:21 might be Feb 28 03:53:33 mhm dma/interrupt engine?... Feb 28 03:53:53 is active when playing music too .. but massively active with this copying action Feb 28 03:54:04 (music=webradio) Feb 28 03:54:57 spi might be the wifi as well Feb 28 03:55:38 can be Feb 28 03:56:11 ah yes ... i had a ssh session scrolling the copy action Feb 28 03:56:22 yep, wifi is on spi on n900 Feb 28 03:56:24 in screen .. detached and load goes down Feb 28 03:56:52 * cehteh would like iostat on the n900 Feb 28 03:57:08 'search' Feb 28 03:57:45 it's probably in extras-devel Feb 28 03:57:46 sysstat ... Feb 28 03:57:49 sysstat yea Feb 28 03:57:50 h Feb 28 03:58:04 ShadowJK: where from is your knowledge about those details? Feb 28 03:58:17 (spi for wifi) Feb 28 03:58:27 /sys/bus/spi/ Feb 28 03:58:32 another 196kb eaten from rootfs Feb 28 03:58:43 ShadowJK: lol Feb 28 03:58:53 chk Feb 28 03:59:26 err dunno if that's a common acro - so: could have known Feb 28 03:59:40 /sys/devices/platform/omap2_mcspi.4/spi4.0/net:wlan0 Feb 28 03:59:50 ;) Feb 28 04:00:47 iostat -m 30 .. so lets see Feb 28 04:01:14 -k is probably more appropriate ;D Feb 28 04:01:59 hehe Feb 28 04:02:56 damn that was no joke :P Feb 28 04:04:14 * DocScrutinizer curstes that weird upstart-alike sysinit config, where you got no viable way to tell which scripts are run in which sequence Feb 28 04:06:48 hum .. copied bak the 8gb .. finsihed and only 2.2gb used .. that makes me think somehow Feb 28 04:07:12 err... Feb 28 04:08:05 well there was nothing important .. but hm :) Feb 28 04:09:37 du & diff? Feb 28 04:10:25 in what package is 'diff' Feb 28 04:10:48 lol Feb 28 04:11:22 patchutils i gues :P Feb 28 04:11:38 sent 2396705 bytes received 375272 bytes 20159.83 bytes/sec Feb 28 04:11:38 total size is 1878911831 speedup is 677.82 Feb 28 04:11:45 ok lets see Feb 28 04:12:37 does vfat waste massive space on small files? Feb 28 04:12:57 diffmo Feb 28 04:13:20 ? Feb 28 04:15:04 ah thanks Feb 28 04:17:19 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# du -s /home/user/MyDocs/ Feb 28 04:17:20 2093512 /home/user/MyDocs Feb 28 04:17:20 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# du -s /media/mmc1/MyDocs/ Feb 28 04:17:20 4820384 /media/mmc1/MyDocs Feb 28 04:17:30 ... and rsync tells its all in sync Feb 28 04:18:00 * dracflamloc_ curses his lack of experience with linux make system Feb 28 04:18:03 diffmo -r running and found no differences Feb 28 04:18:23 Nur in /home/user/MyDocs/: lost+found. Feb 28 04:18:28 ah one difference :P Feb 28 04:18:53 hey if ext4 does a massive space save .. duh! Feb 28 04:21:49 does --apparent-size work on n900's du? Feb 28 04:21:56 guess not Feb 28 04:22:32 nope Feb 28 04:22:55 Usage: du [-aHLdclsxhmk] Feb 28 04:23:41 well looks really as if vfat wastes about 300% spcae or more for small (osm tiles) files Feb 28 04:24:51 * cehteh has a shitload of tiles here Feb 28 04:25:56 hmm 1k sized files on 4k blocksize, that would explain it Feb 28 04:26:27 i have 4k blocksize on ext4 too .. but it can store small files effectively Feb 28 04:26:32 find /home/user/MyDocs/.maps/ | wc -l Feb 28 04:26:33 122065 Feb 28 04:26:50 omg Feb 28 04:27:05 filesize of a random file? Feb 28 04:27:39 some hundred bytes to 2k Feb 28 04:28:16 oh no the pngs are biggier Feb 28 04:28:21 though even with 122k files, I don't see how that makes it waste GB of storage Feb 28 04:29:02 diffmo is through .. no differences Feb 28 04:29:21 ok i am happy to have ext4 now .. case settled Feb 28 04:29:36 heh Feb 28 04:29:41 lemme test the camera Feb 28 04:30:44 works Feb 28 04:31:04 :-) Feb 28 04:31:25 -- testing maemo mapper Feb 28 04:31:44 hope you'll come up with a script, or at least a 'history | pastebinit --' Feb 28 04:32:56 nah i'll patent it :P Feb 28 04:33:42 ok .. what we learnd today .. "VFAT is *much* more worse than thought" Feb 28 04:34:13 I still don't buy *how bad* it sems to be Feb 28 04:34:30 well .. what can i tell .. you see the numbers Feb 28 04:34:34 everything still works Feb 28 04:34:39 nothing missing Feb 28 04:34:47 Right, like we needed to learn that FAT was bad Feb 28 04:34:48 i didnt rebooted yet .. Feb 28 04:35:05 doing that now .. lets see what i've forgotten :P Feb 28 04:35:08 you should do a df anyway Feb 28 04:35:24 i did Feb 28 04:35:34 even more extreme results Feb 28 04:35:54 /dev/mmcblk1p1 14.8G 11.0G 3.9G 74% /media/mmc1 Feb 28 04:35:54 /dev/mmcblk0p1 26.6G 2.2G 24.4G 8% /home/user/MyDocs Feb 28 04:36:01 I don't get it how FAT is wasting >2GB in 122k files Feb 28 04:36:27 large block sizes? Feb 28 04:36:38 when i started there was 8.4 GB used in MyDocs and 8.5GB free in mmc1 Feb 28 04:36:41 2MB Feb 28 04:36:56 seen it Feb 28 04:37:13 the SD card prolly using different blocksizes (its a 16G card not 32G) Feb 28 04:37:32 explains that it already saves a little more space Feb 28 04:37:58 nah actually 20k bs would suffice Feb 28 04:38:12 well dunno Feb 28 04:38:39 at worst i have deleted something huge accidentally .. or the hard-reset earlier eaten a lot of files Feb 28 04:39:39 * cehteh misses nothing Feb 28 04:43:21 ok .. i do the reboot .. lets see Feb 28 04:45:35 You miss nothing until you miss something Feb 28 04:45:51 cant be there was nothing important on the device Feb 28 04:46:08 and all this non important stuff is completely rsynced to my laptop Feb 28 04:47:43 but hum .. it doesnt boot :P Feb 28 04:48:03 :D Feb 28 04:48:06 :P Feb 28 04:48:50 having no console sux a bit Feb 28 04:53:28 ok time for flashing Feb 28 04:55:00 .. thats the first time i flash this device :P Feb 28 04:58:30 cehteh: welcome to the joy of embedded lowlevel debugging Feb 28 05:08:21 so .. made a tea .. lets continue Feb 28 05:14:34 mhm there is only on emmc image .. that never got updated? Feb 28 05:14:47 well .. i try to keep the emmc, lets see Feb 28 05:17:47 you don't want to reflash eMMC Feb 28 05:21:12 well since its the emmc which i reformatted to ext4 ... Feb 28 05:21:53 but first i just try to get it booting with the ext4 Feb 28 05:25:03 http://mirrors.kernel.org/moblin :) Feb 28 05:27:22 wow a green bar whilec flashing Feb 28 05:29:41 ok i am back in business :P Feb 28 05:33:15 hah.. with emmc not mounted .. no home ext3 Feb 28 05:34:42 wb Feb 28 05:36:27 DocScrutinizer: it doesnt moint the emmc .. /home .... guess something crapped out Feb 28 05:37:03 hmm, checked your fstab? Feb 28 05:37:25 can you mount by hand? Feb 28 05:38:06 ah thanks .. there it is .. Feb 28 05:38:34 haha .. permission denied .. are you root :P Feb 28 05:39:00 rootfs ro? Feb 28 05:39:30 nope .. fresh flashed Feb 28 05:39:49 i give it one reboot again Feb 28 05:41:19 it doesnt ask me for the passcode anymore .. interesting Feb 28 05:47:26 cehteh: check the partiton table of eMMC Feb 28 05:47:59 .. setted up wlan, installing rootsh .. Feb 28 05:48:46 if a freshly flashed unmodified rootfs doesn't mount /home, I can't see what else might cause that other than parttab and home-fs corruption Feb 28 05:49:03 the partition-table looks good Feb 28 05:50:07 eww Feb 28 05:50:10 fsck home? Feb 28 05:50:35 tries to mount mmcblk0p1 as home Feb 28 05:51:24 ohnoes ... only vi Feb 28 05:51:34 lol Feb 28 05:52:22 konqueror -url sftp://root@n900 Feb 28 05:52:41 heh Feb 28 05:52:58 i managed to edit the fstab with vi Feb 28 05:53:09 mounted now Feb 28 05:54:06 ssh now Feb 28 05:54:10 * DocScrutinizer imagines some dozen old sysadms and hackers headbanging the desk on reading "managed to edit with vi" :-P Feb 28 05:54:40 hey .. i am one of the people who write 'ed' scripts :) Feb 28 05:55:43 there is ed and there is emacs .. and the space between is filled with nano ... no space left for vi Feb 28 05:55:44 I confess I avoid vi wherever there's an alternative Feb 28 05:57:14 mhm .. so now lets go on only get the ext4 running Feb 28 05:58:09 * DocScrutinizer wonders what your access to the device looks like when /home not mounted Feb 28 05:58:40 well, probably not much of a diff, at least for non-optified apps Feb 28 06:00:23 # Segmentation fault Feb 28 06:00:30 me using vi Feb 28 06:00:57 an "achievement" Feb 28 06:01:15 cehteh - are you trying to make the rootfs partition on your n900, ext4? Feb 28 06:01:23 looks like initial start .. including ovi and first steps on the deaktop .. nothing unusual Feb 28 06:01:33 Termana_n810: nope only MyDocs Feb 28 06:03:59 ah, normally that shouldn't be too difficult. But, err, this is Maemo we're talking about. Home of the non-mainstream hacks :P No offense Feb 28 06:04:35 (no offense to the developers that is :P) Feb 28 06:04:50 hey .. i want to punch them Feb 28 06:05:03 there are so many ugly hack for no reason Feb 28 06:05:25 I want to know if dmesg is telling you why it refuses to mount /home Feb 28 06:05:32 prolly the the only reasons are "We want to make it differently" Feb 28 06:06:02 DocScrutinizer: the (autogenerated) fstab pointed to the MyDocs partition Feb 28 06:06:15 aah Feb 28 06:06:16 fixed that manually and mounted it now Feb 28 06:06:31 of course, and -t vfat Feb 28 06:07:20 nah /home is ext3 ... there was a message that it cant mount the storage (which is ext4) Feb 28 06:07:35 this kernel cant handle ext4 .. i'm installing a new kernel next Feb 28 06:09:07 didn't ext4 support only start coming in around .30? IIRC, the n900 kernel is .28 Feb 28 06:09:18 aah, yes. of course Feb 28 06:09:33 nope its in .28 Feb 28 06:09:44 but not enabled in the nokia kernel Feb 28 06:11:51 ext4dev Feb 28 06:12:24 sorry, let me rephrase - *stable* *working* ext4 Feb 28 06:12:59 no real ext4 not dev Feb 28 06:13:25 besides, if its not enabled in the kernel or your not loading it as a module - you will need to either enable it or build it as a module Feb 28 06:13:42 before it will work Feb 28 06:13:46 there is a kernel in extras-devel which comes with ext4 Feb 28 06:14:03 ext4 is not the problem .. i had some bug preventing it booting Feb 28 06:16:39 but you just said above "this kernel cannot handle ext4" Feb 28 06:16:42 :P Feb 28 06:17:01 the stock kernel installed when flashing the device Feb 28 06:17:27 ah i see, nevermind me :P Feb 28 06:18:08 ok .. rebooting Feb 28 06:19:10 * cehteh rather wonders how he managed to brick the device in a way that it didnt asked for the passcode at boot Feb 28 06:19:58 cehteh: did you use real bricks? Feb 28 06:20:02 ...is all I can think of. Feb 28 06:20:12 damn .. again doesnt boot :P Feb 28 06:21:08 * cehteh notes that a hand-edited fstab seems not to work Feb 28 06:21:17 what passcode? Feb 28 06:21:43 cehteh: maybe it's the kernel that doesn't work Feb 28 06:22:05 i booted the kernel before doing the fstab Feb 28 06:22:11 and i mounted the ext4 manually Feb 28 06:22:23 hmm Feb 28 06:22:31 mount -a Feb 28 06:22:58 well next i just hardcode the mount Feb 28 06:25:40 still it's strange the boot completely fails on a failing mount Feb 28 06:26:29 it starts with the moving dots but sticks with a completely black screen Feb 28 06:26:43 so the kernel starts up ... but userland gets stuck Feb 28 06:27:01 and without console or so i have no way to find out what happens Feb 28 06:27:53 yeah. As I said - the joy of messing with booting embedded devices Feb 28 06:28:13 well .. this is an artifical embedded device grr Feb 28 06:28:19 check if userland tools only have ext4dev Feb 28 06:28:42 jebba: ext4 was not the problem Feb 28 06:31:07 cehteh - why not compile a kernel with fbcon. I've been making some .33 kernels for the n810 and when userland decides to be an arse, fbcon prints out the userland errors Feb 28 06:32:30 fbcon = framebuffer console (just in case you didn't know) Feb 28 06:33:41 that way you should be able to find out where userland is freezing. Feb 28 06:37:51 Termana_n810: actually i didnt want to put too much efforts into it .. Feb 28 06:38:24 and merging nokias stuff and maintaining all their stuff sounds not like easy going Feb 28 06:38:42 well... :P there isn't really any other way unless you have a debug board Feb 28 06:39:27 to view the serial console Feb 28 06:39:35 i just make it boot on the new kernel without the ext4 now Feb 28 06:46:10 done. Feb 28 06:46:18 * raster bah's at maemo Feb 28 06:46:22 done what? Feb 28 06:46:32 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9320 Feb 28 06:46:33 Bug 9320: opengl-es2 rendering bugs Feb 28 06:46:41 i was a good boy Feb 28 06:46:44 i filed a bug Feb 28 06:46:45 :) Feb 28 06:47:17 raster: hooray :-) Feb 28 06:47:46 too bad it'll probably be marked Fixed in MeeGo Feb 28 06:47:56 :P Feb 28 06:48:33 Termana_n810: that'd be stupid Feb 28 06:48:38 as its actual gl-es driver bugs Feb 28 06:48:42 they will be in meego too Feb 28 06:48:47 fix them now Feb 28 06:49:03 performance is also bunk Feb 28 06:49:08 total crud Feb 28 06:59:27 I guess there'll be quite some echo tomorrow. Or even in a few hours when everybody's out of the nest here in EU Feb 28 06:59:55 about what? Feb 28 07:00:05 raster's bug report? Feb 28 07:00:10 about 9320 Feb 28 07:01:07 yeah, but when isn't there dust being kicked up in here :P Feb 28 07:01:48 alas no whining and bitching will make the gles src come open Feb 28 07:05:22 \o/ --- manual mounting works Feb 28 07:05:43 still handwritten fstab .. Feb 28 07:06:33 what changed? Feb 28 07:06:58 mount -a (i tried it manually, that worked, serveral times) Feb 28 07:07:31 prolly overseen some fairie dust in the scripts Feb 28 07:07:33 how are you editing the fstab again after a failed boot? Feb 28 07:07:48 reflashed? Feb 28 07:08:07 well and the fstab regeneration is commented out now Feb 28 07:09:17 ok .. putting uSD back in ans replay backup ... Feb 28 07:10:01 and the massive space saving of ext4 seems to be true Feb 28 07:10:48 still don't get that Feb 28 07:11:04 me neither Feb 28 07:11:05 is ext4 compressing? Feb 28 07:11:09 no Feb 28 07:11:31 sparse files? Feb 28 07:12:01 all it can do is storing small files in-place .. direct in the inode, yes sparse files of course, its a unix filesystem Feb 28 07:12:11 i thing all things come together Feb 28 07:12:24 and sum up Feb 28 07:13:11 could also been that there where some deleted files which wherent closed .. my maemo mapper or so Feb 28 07:14:37 well .. FAT was invented for 640Kb 5"1/4 Diskettes :P Feb 28 07:15:12 hum .. eeeks Feb 28 07:15:32 i now put sd card back in and it asks me for 'initial' setup Feb 28 07:15:46 select region, clock and stuff Feb 28 07:16:45 but all correctly mounted Feb 28 07:16:57 * cehteh just restores the backup Feb 28 07:31:23 heh Maemo just had a spazem at meand made all the panels blank and what not. probably the daemons i've disabled. Feb 28 07:31:33 me and made* Feb 28 07:32:18 crashed Tear as well :P Feb 28 07:38:47 hi Feb 28 07:49:22 hi Feb 28 07:49:52 0_o Feb 28 07:54:18 o?O Feb 28 07:54:39 .o0(???) Feb 28 07:55:51 DocScrutinizer: hmm? Feb 28 07:56:12 0_o Feb 28 07:56:15 oh, crossmanga eyeplay Feb 28 08:11:45 Fun for the whole family, its crossmanga eyeplay - available in shopsnear you! Feb 28 08:11:54 shops near* Feb 28 08:18:42 hi, I made the mistake of rating my own package in maemo.org/downloads and now I can't post any comments on that page to answer user's questions. What can I do? Feb 28 09:00:07 Except N900, is there any other type using Maemo 5? Feb 28 09:01:03 no Feb 28 09:04:57 jebba: and it will soon be replaced by Maemo 6, leaving no any GTK+ based mobile system. Feb 28 09:05:20 jebba: How soon? Feb 28 09:06:14 voidprayer: uh, it will have gtk+ available too Feb 28 09:06:25 voidprayer, GTK+ will still be available for Maemo 6 / MeeGo Feb 28 09:07:01 jebba: available means most of application will move to Qt but you can use GTK+? or a GTK+ version of Maemo is availabe? Feb 28 09:07:10 voidprayer: gtk is such a pain to work with so i am not surprised.. Feb 28 09:07:25 voidprayer: you can still run gtk apps Feb 28 09:07:26 but gtk is there, we are not sure of gtk maemo Feb 28 09:07:47 moblin uses clutter Feb 28 09:07:59 Stskeeps: well, it might be. but too many programmes in GTK+ and now it is a little hard to avoid. I hate GTK's huge button. Feb 28 09:07:59 for netbook ui Feb 28 09:08:28 voidprayer: agreed, but power of maemo is support for multiple toolkits Feb 28 09:08:32 not sure what meego will use for dialer and such. Feb 28 09:09:04 Is GPE available in any commercial cellphone? Feb 28 09:09:24 not sure if freerunner counts Feb 28 09:10:00 voidprayer: you can install GPE on n900 Feb 28 09:10:10 it's in the repo Feb 28 09:10:30 jebba: I see. Thank you. Feb 28 09:13:02 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/g/gettext/gettext-base_0.17-4maemo1+0m5_armel.deb Size mismatch Feb 28 09:13:05 doh :< Feb 28 09:13:52 as long as qt doesnt chew too much battery... Feb 28 09:24:52 jebba: dialer? I thought it will use ofono Feb 28 09:25:47 mh, meego still doesn't have a forum Feb 28 09:26:44 still in discussions Feb 28 09:26:57 as it needs to be approved by TSG first Feb 28 09:28:01 hmm Feb 28 09:28:30 anyone successfully installed esbox on top of existing eclipse installation? Feb 28 09:29:15 it can't read stuff from update site, says white space is required between public id and system iid Feb 28 09:29:18 :/ Feb 28 09:29:38 * RST38h throws up at the mention of eclipse Feb 28 09:30:25 Ultimate N900 accessory: http://tsifra.spb.ru/mobile-skaf.jpg Feb 28 09:30:36 eclipse is AWWEEEEEEESOME Feb 28 09:30:45 it finally gives a reason for the 4gb of ram in my box Feb 28 09:30:46 RST38h: excellent Feb 28 09:30:59 and it makes good user of the 2 cores... Feb 28 09:31:04 for editing text :) Feb 28 09:31:18 * Shapeshifter found some hilarious eclipse code yesterday Feb 28 09:31:21 http://grepcode.com/file/repo1.maven.org$maven2@org.aspectj$aspectjtools@1.6.6@org$aspectj$org$eclipse$jdt$internal$compiler$parser$Parser.java Feb 28 09:31:54 oh, and downloaded esbox just silently exits without showing anything Feb 28 09:31:58 it's raining case statements Feb 28 09:32:18 raster: Yes, it is good for Intel business, as poor idiots are fruitlessly trying to buy enough hardware to make eclipse run at usable speed Feb 28 09:32:56 RST38h: as i said.. its totally awesome Feb 28 09:33:00 :) Feb 28 09:33:15 slonopotamus: the whole thing has been a fail from the beginning, avoid it Feb 28 09:33:37 RST38h, maemo? i know. Feb 28 09:34:14 but i need to run esbox somehow :/ Feb 28 09:34:26 no, the eclipse thing Feb 28 09:34:27 Shapeshifter: consume!!!!!! Feb 28 09:34:50 no keynsian paroles please Feb 28 09:34:51 wow Feb 28 09:35:03 consumePseudoTokens is awesome Feb 28 09:35:44 RST38h, maemo didn't have to base esbox on eclpse Feb 28 09:36:47 slono: "maemo" is a software platform, it does not make engineering decisions, or any decisions at all Feb 28 09:37:01 these are made by people Feb 28 09:37:21 RST38h, you understood what i meant. Feb 28 09:37:25 RST38h: i write code to make decisions for me Feb 28 09:37:34 it normally involves rand() Feb 28 09:37:35 :) Feb 28 09:37:52 Theres a lot of padantic people on Freenode tonight Feb 28 09:37:55 slono: Yes, and somewhere inside Maemo Devices there is a guy who has made a wrong decision Feb 28 09:39:24 his name is rand()y Feb 28 09:39:25 :) Feb 28 09:39:35 lol Feb 28 09:39:59 raster, :D Feb 28 09:40:25 Termana_n810: dude, it's irc Feb 28 09:40:37 hey raster hows tricks Feb 28 09:41:08 asj_ - thanks captain obvious :P I ment more than usual Feb 28 09:41:20 doing anything fun? Feb 28 09:41:36 Termana_n810: don't get pedantic on me Feb 28 09:42:30 lol Feb 28 09:47:32 4:45 < dracflamloc_> anyone interested in making a linux build of this? http://code.google.com/p/wtfgame/ Feb 28 09:51:29 Firefox mobile for N900? Feb 28 09:51:54 try it with a sentence LiraNuna Feb 28 09:52:07 haha Feb 28 09:52:23 well, I just read about Firefox mobile releasing for N900; Feb 28 09:52:32 anyone got thoughts/pics about it? Feb 28 09:55:14 LiraNuna <-- kinda slow Feb 28 09:55:30 not unlike Firefox mobile ... Feb 28 09:56:08 :< Feb 28 09:56:16 not unlike Firefox mobile ... Feb 28 09:56:32 is that double negative? Feb 28 09:57:42 hehe Feb 28 09:58:25 LiraNuna: well, it has "not", and has a word that negates its meaning by prepending "un" Feb 28 09:58:29 LiraNuna: what do you think? Feb 28 09:58:47 I'm thinking there's a language barrier here Feb 28 09:59:55 yeah right Feb 28 10:00:12 :( Feb 28 10:00:13 ~RST38h++ Feb 28 10:09:24 Moaning all Feb 28 10:19:00 good moaning Feb 28 10:28:08 Aquatix: heya Feb 28 10:29:08 hey wazd_e63 :) Feb 28 10:32:55 * timeless_mbp chuckles @ MacPacInstall Feb 28 10:33:00 * timeless_mbp chuckles @ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=538516 Feb 28 10:33:01 Bug 538516: was not found. Feb 28 10:35:11 Hi all Feb 28 10:35:35 timeless_mbp: wow Feb 28 10:35:50 timeless_mbp: and here my gf is still waiting for her device to arrive :) Feb 28 10:38:19 well, i think qa is waiting for approval to send the check Feb 28 10:38:45 one would hope they'd get a slight discount for that volume... Feb 28 10:40:08 they do budgets in bugzilla? Feb 28 10:40:09 :P Feb 28 10:40:28 approvals yes Feb 28 10:40:45 generally individual desktop purchases are company confidential, but tracked in bugzilla Feb 28 10:40:55 i presume that budgets aren't in bugzilla Feb 28 10:41:12 (there are real bugs like "i need a new desktop" or "i need a new laptop") Feb 28 10:41:59 One would think "needing more devices" isn't exactly a bug Feb 28 10:43:55 Termana_n810: the lack of those devices blocks other bugs Feb 28 10:44:05 and as such, it needs to be represented in the bug framework Feb 28 10:45:15 timeless_mbp, heh - whatever makes everyone happy Feb 28 10:45:49 it also enables transparency Feb 28 10:45:58 it's much nicer than how most corporations work :) Feb 28 10:47:06 at least it enhances the openness Feb 28 10:51:55 Is there some Maemo expert here? Feb 28 10:53:40 nah, we killed them all Feb 28 10:53:48 embedded, your talking in the Maemo channel, theres a lot of them here -.- Feb 28 10:54:24 eheh, but no one answer :) Feb 28 10:54:49 embedded - because you haven't asked anything Feb 28 10:56:20 who knows how to create a .desktop shortcut file to run an app from the osso-xterm as root? Feb 28 10:57:27 well, you can't quite do that Feb 28 10:57:40 you can add a file to /etc/sudoers.d/ for your thing Feb 28 10:57:45 and in postinstall you can run update-sudoers Feb 28 10:58:08 you can then have a .desktop shortcut which asks xterm to use sudo to call your special thing Feb 28 10:58:30 how to do this last thing? Feb 28 10:59:32 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30808 Feb 28 11:00:53 osso xterm can't be asked to run other things Feb 28 11:01:22 s/'t/ Feb 28 11:01:25 * timeless_mbp sighs Feb 28 11:01:40 i suspect there are better answers for it in the #maemo logs Feb 28 11:02:33 so no chances to do that? Feb 28 11:02:47 embedded: what do you want to run? Feb 28 11:03:33 an app I ported which makes use of ncurses Feb 28 11:03:35 embedded: it's definitely possible Feb 28 11:03:44 the documentation is just scarce :) Feb 28 11:04:08 it's a sunday, i'd suggest you search through the irc logs and ask again in +8, +16, +24 hrs Feb 28 11:04:09 why are people who ask for help so secrative? Feb 28 11:04:23 good question Feb 28 11:06:02 Linux egon 2.6.31-19-generic #56-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 28 01:26:53 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux Feb 28 11:06:11 lol, oops Feb 28 11:06:33 bad cut&paste Feb 28 11:06:50 in practice I found somewhere on the net to run : "echo / | sudo gainroot" Feb 28 11:07:21 that shouldn't work anymore Feb 28 11:07:30 people decided that it'd be dangerous Feb 28 11:07:43 using sudoers.d as i instructed is the correct way (™) Feb 28 11:08:10 (™) ehehe :D Feb 28 11:08:20 my irc client is too clever for me Feb 28 11:09:16 timeless_mbp: I'll try your way and I'll be back to you with results, I hope good :) Feb 28 11:09:35 sudoers definitely works, i use it Feb 28 11:09:45 the xterm side of things is definitely doable, other people do it Feb 28 11:09:50 * timeless_mbp just isn't amongst them Feb 28 11:12:19 the bluemaemo package seems to contain a good example to do that Feb 28 11:13:57 -+ Feb 28 11:28:40 is there a switch for openssh? it drains my battery (even when in offline mode) Feb 28 11:29:34 really? Feb 28 11:30:13 yes each night I set it to offline mode and since I installed Dropbear ssh server after 7 hours sleed the battery is dead Feb 28 11:30:39 Ah, Dropbear... Feb 28 11:30:53 Uninstall Dropbear. Install OpenSSH. Feb 28 11:30:56 go for regular openssh Feb 28 11:30:57 is the openssh better? Feb 28 11:31:01 k Feb 28 11:31:06 it does not drain batteries at least Feb 28 11:31:09 it doesnt drain battery at least not as far as i've seen Feb 28 11:33:03 me too Feb 28 11:33:12 idle unless used Feb 28 11:36:24 also is there a website where I can see the themes for the n900 don't like to install them one by one Feb 28 11:41:24 does gmail support push email ? Feb 28 11:41:37 and is it possible to setup on maemo? Feb 28 12:03:25 I've been charging my n900 this night (while powered off). There was a green notification light (I suppose meaning charged). But when I booted the device, I only got 86% battery Feb 28 12:04:36 Is this normal behavior? Feb 28 12:05:52 aw bloody heck Feb 28 12:06:02 I kind of unpromoted myself from my own garage project : Feb 28 12:06:03 :D Feb 28 12:06:17 nice one Milo- Feb 28 12:06:27 who should I ask to promote me back as admin? :P Feb 28 12:06:35 I am the only member in that project :D Feb 28 12:10:13 djkrikke: the battery meter is somewhat broken Feb 28 12:11:16 SpeedEvil, you mean, the percentage monitor? Feb 28 12:13:38 djkrikke: the place where all battery meters get their info from (hal and stuff) Feb 28 12:13:49 Shapeshifter: I see Feb 28 12:14:04 so what you say is that my battery actually is charged Feb 28 12:14:04 yes Feb 28 12:14:17 but the device just doesn't know it ^^ Feb 28 12:14:30 It does - it's just the reporting to userspace of this sucks Feb 28 12:14:44 I have this problem with a full rootfs. I have seen that alot have an /opt about the size of 2GB. But I dont have any? Anyone know why? Feb 28 12:15:46 SpeedEvil, but doesn't the device use this stats to know when It has to warn for low battery level? So in my case it will tell me low battery while it even isn't less then 20%? Feb 28 12:15:47 why maemo just doesnt use your normal every day /sys/class/power_supply api to report stuff... beats me Feb 28 12:16:00 Kusk: sync - the fs doesn't automatically reclaim space. If you've installed lots of apps early on - you might uninstall them and reinstall Feb 28 12:16:46 SpeedEvil: hey hey :) Feb 28 12:16:52 SpeedEvil: But isnt there a seperate partition mounted as /opt? Feb 28 12:17:09 nop Feb 28 12:17:10 e Feb 28 12:17:57 opt is in /home Feb 28 12:18:03 ls -ld /opt Feb 28 12:18:10 does df Feb 28 12:18:47 show several lines with 'opt' in them? Feb 28 12:19:06 Or du /upt Feb 28 12:19:09 opt Feb 28 12:19:16 here that shows 390M Feb 28 12:20:49 Nope, that is the mydocs(27gb) and rootfs(227mb) and the small tmp/dev/run/shm Feb 28 12:21:28 nice, web and irc and podcasts is going to drain the battery in 6 hours Feb 28 12:21:28 have you been messing with partitioning? Feb 28 12:21:34 * RST38h wonders what "Search" feature in Torrent clients is for. It no longer searches anything. Feb 28 12:21:35 Well python is mounted at opt/mymaemo, but that is in rootfs since it has the same size as root(227mb) Feb 28 12:21:47 SpeedEvil: Nope Feb 28 12:21:48 pupnik, how do you know? :) Feb 28 12:21:53 afk Feb 28 12:22:38 batt down at 20 pct Feb 28 12:22:50 10:3 Feb 28 12:23:00 10:30 to 13:22 Feb 28 12:23:16 that's pretty fast Feb 28 12:23:23 how did you manage to do that? Feb 28 12:24:04 running podcasts, irc, occasional web browsing Feb 28 12:24:40 I see. Damn, 6 hours really sucks Feb 28 12:24:44 Kusk: no. /opt is a symlink to /home/opt Feb 28 12:24:59 and /home is a 2g partition Feb 28 12:25:15 Well I dont have an home partition Feb 28 12:25:21 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# ls -l / Feb 28 12:25:22 ... Feb 28 12:25:27 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Oct 30 22:36 opt -> /home/opt Feb 28 12:25:35 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# df -h Feb 28 12:25:39 ... Feb 28 12:25:44 /dev/mmcblk0p2 2.0G 377.2M 1.5G 20% /home Feb 28 12:25:46 6 would be a miracle. ill let it run out djkrikke Feb 28 12:25:54 thats standard maemo setup for n900 Feb 28 12:25:58 How is it possible that it drains so fast, pupnik? Feb 28 12:26:08 djkrikke: cpu is always on Feb 28 12:26:27 if u have irc on... Feb 28 12:26:31 True, but playing music and being on irc doesn't drain other phones that fast Feb 28 12:26:46 err in my experience it does Feb 28 12:27:02 well mp3 playback takes about 2x the battery it needs. i will try to release a player soon that halves that Feb 28 12:27:09 u'll get about 8 - maybee 10hrs out of a g1 playing music with screen off Feb 28 12:27:44 oh of course screen takes a lot Feb 28 12:28:30 but the 1200 mah batt is also too small by half Feb 28 12:28:52 it is relatively small given the screen size Feb 28 12:28:54 and cpu Feb 28 12:29:01 yep Feb 28 12:29:07 (and wifi.. and 3g and...) Feb 28 12:29:12 nbut its not tiiiny Feb 28 12:29:18 its not generous - thats for sure Feb 28 12:29:28 given the actual physical size of the n900 tho - the battery is weenie Feb 28 12:29:37 weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenie Feb 28 12:30:15 lets just say it is better than government shite Feb 28 12:31:09 raster, indeed. Like those dell pc's have slices, I hoped someone invented a slice or something :) Feb 28 12:33:13 raster: This is the output from df -h http://throwingapples.com/tmp/Screenshot-20100228-132402.jpg Feb 28 12:34:05 Could it be that there is a home partition somewhere, that havn't been mounted? Feb 28 12:34:32 this thing here as a 1500mah battery - and it sscreen wil eat much less power than the n900 - and its markedly thinner - pushing on almost half the tickness Feb 28 12:34:47 the n900 just is a very bulky device with a weenie battery :) Feb 28 12:35:06 Kusk: have u plugged into usb - mass storage mode? Feb 28 12:35:29 raster: Nope, not at the time I took the screenshot Feb 28 12:35:45 no idesa where your /home went Feb 28 12:35:51 but there should be a /home partition Feb 28 12:36:01 what does fstab say? Feb 28 12:37:11 Well in the fstab there is an /home partition Feb 28 12:37:18 try mount it Feb 28 12:37:21 mount /homre Feb 28 12:37:23 mount /home Feb 28 12:37:46 mines mounted and swinging its nuts around as it should Feb 28 12:38:12 Mount: mounting /dev /mmcblk0p2 on /home failed: Invalied argument Feb 28 12:38:52 > Feb 28 12:38:54 ? Feb 28 12:38:57 eh? Feb 28 12:39:09 whats fstab say? Feb 28 12:39:16 /dev/mmcblk0p2 /home ext3 rw,noatime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback 0 0 Feb 28 12:39:19 thats the default Feb 28 12:39:56 Its the same here Feb 28 12:40:36 Could it be a faulty partition? Feb 28 12:48:06 dunno Feb 28 12:48:08 smells wrong Feb 28 12:48:12 dmesg? Feb 28 12:48:20 there has to be more than "invalid argument" Feb 28 12:48:23 kernel bitching... Feb 28 12:48:28 something Feb 28 12:48:50 raster, perhaps you know, does maemo also use the hal battery info for giving low battery warning? Feb 28 12:49:17 djkrikke: dunno. i DO know there is on standard kernel interface for battery tho Feb 28 12:49:36 they did some weird shit of their own Feb 28 12:49:57 raster, because when the monitorring goes wrong, the battery may not be empty while maemo says I have to charge Feb 28 12:50:00 Is anybody converting movies with Super 2010 to their N900? Feb 28 12:50:14 if yes, what are your settings? Feb 28 12:50:27 sams as n810, n800, n7700 - no desire to follow standards there :( Feb 28 12:52:30 Vanadis, use Handbrake Feb 28 12:53:36 moo wazd Feb 28 12:53:37 Vanadis, get the Handbrake profiles from here http://wiki.maemo.org/Video_Encoding_Basic_Guide and you're set Feb 28 12:53:47 TomaszD, thx Feb 28 12:54:00 TY TomaszD Feb 28 12:54:48 np Feb 28 12:55:38 gpodder is one of the greatest apps for maemo Feb 28 12:55:48 indeed it its Feb 28 12:55:50 *it is Feb 28 12:56:00 I can even excuse its long start-up time Feb 28 12:56:09 same Feb 28 12:56:28 thp for president, I've always said Feb 28 12:56:39 yes gpodder is awesome Feb 28 12:57:23 any favorite feeds? Feb 28 12:57:43 many from the TWiT network, like FLOSS Weekly and Security Now! Feb 28 12:57:57 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/28/ides_versus_the_people/ Feb 28 12:57:59 hehe Feb 28 12:58:22 I also sometimes listen to those assholes from engadget as they make sense from time to time Feb 28 12:58:51 We have finally got to the point where command line is easier to learn than IDE tools. Perfect. Feb 28 12:58:56 pupnik, yours? Feb 28 12:59:34 As far as I can see, dmesg doesn't mention the partition at all http://throwingapples.com/tmp/dmesg.txt Feb 28 12:59:39 deutsche bank reaearch, mises.org, peter schiff Feb 28 13:00:12 quite specialized stuff I see Feb 28 13:00:34 not that mine isn't, in a way Feb 28 13:01:38 the economy is relevant to my interests Feb 28 13:01:47 hmm Feb 28 13:01:49 this is weird Feb 28 13:01:54 pupnik: can you do something about economy? =) Feb 28 13:01:55 I woke up and my battery is 1/4th full Feb 28 13:01:56 ;P Feb 28 13:02:10 I unplugged it before I went to sleep Feb 28 13:02:20 I think I have a battery problem! Feb 28 13:02:34 or you slept for 2 days Feb 28 13:02:51 hmm Feb 28 13:03:00 it wasn't connected to anything either Feb 28 13:03:07 so you slept for 5 days Feb 28 13:03:40 there are those new fancy battery meters available Feb 28 13:03:47 maybe you should check them out Feb 28 13:04:01 I should Feb 28 13:04:23 Nokia should make better batteries! Feb 28 13:04:56 I don't think they ever made any themselves Feb 28 13:05:24 they should buy better batteries then Feb 28 13:05:45 there is only so much you can do with the available physics Feb 28 13:06:00 they could be a bit smaller and lighter if they were LiPo Feb 28 13:06:08 but not much else they can do Feb 28 13:06:14 inventing something better can't be that hard! Feb 28 13:07:02 just use slices Feb 28 13:07:07 like on laptops Feb 28 13:07:14 so you can attach a battery that fits perfectly Feb 28 13:07:19 without ever having to open the back cover Feb 28 13:07:28 it can be, you're already carrying a potential bomb in your phone if it wasn't for the electronic charging circuits Feb 28 13:08:00 Nuclear batteries Feb 28 13:08:15 Nice, warm, radiant nuclear batteries Feb 28 13:08:33 Imagine puncturing one of those Feb 28 13:08:47 nothing much would happen Feb 28 13:09:20 Not even a bunny attack? Feb 28 13:09:31 bunny people, I mean Feb 28 13:09:38 not sure Feb 28 13:10:30 "If you saw a digital image of yourself running on a virtual treadmill, would you feel like going to the gym? Probably so, according to a Stanford study showing that personalized avatars can motivate people to exercise and eat right. " Feb 28 13:10:45 haha yeah right Feb 28 13:10:56 no personalized avatars can make me stop sitting like a fat guy in my chair, and eating bacon Feb 28 13:11:00 * RST38h goes over possible further experiments. Windows. Toilet bowls. Powered wires. Feb 28 13:11:24 actually, I saw a really cool presentation about something like this, let me try digging it out Feb 28 13:12:42 anyone here use fMMS? does anyone find it confusing that the "New MMS"-button got the small envelope icon next to the text? ie thinking its for sending SMS in "Conversations" and not MMS? Feb 28 13:13:07 Why would anyone need to send MMS nowadays? Feb 28 13:13:10 can't find it Feb 28 13:13:16 * RST38h hides again Feb 28 13:13:48 http://mms.frals.se/mainview.png for reference Feb 28 13:14:31 Hmm, somebody knows how to get powertop? Can't find it in the repo's (extras, extras-testing) and isn't on the device either Feb 28 13:14:33 frals, I don't think it's that confusing Feb 28 13:14:34 frals: looks ok to me but if you feel like changing it, an envelope with a photo sticking out would probably do Feb 28 13:14:48 RST38h speaks the truth Feb 28 13:16:28 no i think its perfectly clear, got a user complaining because he have closed the application because he thought he was in conversations... :P Feb 28 13:16:33 djkrikke: it's on my device, in /sbin, as you need root... what firmware do you have? perhaps you have to get someone with it to send it to you Feb 28 13:16:43 let me check, hold on Feb 28 13:16:56 but could probably change the icon, cheers :) Feb 28 13:17:26 ls /sbin | grep powertop returns nothing Feb 28 13:17:27 frals: screw him. Feb 28 13:17:32 so probably not included in my firmware Feb 28 13:17:58 Could anybody upload an txt file with the output of sfdisk -l on their N900? Feb 28 13:18:19 RST38h: :) sticking to what i heard somewhere... "unless 80% of the users complain, its fine" ;D Feb 28 13:18:31 people use MMS? Feb 28 13:18:32 o.o Feb 28 13:18:43 djkrikke: not sure where I got it from, pretty sure it was on the device... wonder if it might be included in fremantle sdk tools, perhaps Feb 28 13:19:39 looks like some people on the maemo forum uploaded the binary Feb 28 13:19:42 works Feb 28 13:19:44 djkrikke: anyway you might have to find someone who has copied it off-device Feb 28 13:20:55 ssh server on the device is just so wicked :) Feb 28 13:23:00 any way to get download statistics from -devel or do you have to add a product on maemo.org/downloads to get # of downloads? Feb 28 13:27:38 is it actually possible to underclock the n900 cpu? Feb 28 13:27:56 it's undercocked anyway Feb 28 13:28:00 it goes to 250MHz Feb 28 13:28:05 and also turns off Feb 28 13:28:34 hmm, but wouldn't it be good to clock it at 250mhz max to get more battery life? Feb 28 13:29:08 djkrikke, false economy sometimes because if you have the cpu slower you may have to keep other components active for longer Feb 28 13:29:38 but, yes you can try it Feb 28 13:29:39 yes indeed, it is more complex than it seems Feb 28 13:30:06 i cant remember the specifics off hand (had no coffee yet) Feb 28 13:30:18 hehe Feb 28 13:30:18 djkrikke: maybe it makes more sense to run powertop and analyze what programs in your n900 prevent cpu from getting into power-saving states? Feb 28 13:30:33 moo RST38h Feb 28 13:30:52 * RST38h moos at lcuk evilly Feb 28 13:30:53 djkrikke: most of the time, capping it at 250MHz will reduce battery life Feb 28 13:31:04 RST38h, I ran powertop, but "tick_nohz_restart_sched_tick" isnt a program I guess Feb 28 13:31:11 lcuk: ok, I ordered bh-905. The only two complaints I have found are the loose fit and the price Feb 28 13:31:29 cool Feb 28 13:31:35 lcuk: With the second complaint mostly addressed by Amazon ($199) Feb 28 13:31:47 hey, i encountered another batch of stuff in that wikidot site last night Feb 28 13:32:05 djkrikke: I kinda doubt you interpreted powertop output correctly :) Feb 28 13:32:17 lcuk: The SCP site? :) Feb 28 13:32:30 same domain, different arg Feb 28 13:32:32 djkrikke: the power difference between 250 and 600 is often less than the power savings you get by making stuff finish faster and then go to idle, turning the cpu off Feb 28 13:32:50 villager, makes sense indeed Feb 28 13:33:00 lcuk: Wikidot provides hosting for several wikis Feb 28 13:33:18 indeed Feb 28 13:33:44 lcuk: Have you seen the mad chemist blog I have found? Feb 28 13:33:49 no? Feb 28 13:33:57 this was slender-man related stuff Feb 28 13:34:10 lcuk: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/ enjoy Feb 28 13:34:27 lcuk: Pretty much like SCP, just real Feb 28 13:34:52 cant read yet, E:NOCOFFEE Feb 28 13:38:56 "The straight liquid must really be a treat, but I've never seen it in that form, and would only wish to through binoculars." Feb 28 13:40:32 hilsrious RST38h Feb 28 13:40:48 hi Feb 28 13:41:15 hi PBeck Feb 28 13:41:19 anyone who has blown up a lab bench, raise hand Feb 28 13:41:31 o/ ;) Feb 28 13:41:57 a whole bench? Feb 28 13:42:11 well no just some glassware Feb 28 13:42:15 set fire to every sink in the lab at the same time :) Feb 28 13:42:37 fnordianslip, thats quite classy Feb 28 13:42:44 how did you manage that Feb 28 13:42:51 i was impressed. it was with toluene Feb 28 13:43:33 burning toluene, actually Feb 28 13:43:42 dumped it in sink? Feb 28 13:43:50 i was just trying to get rid of it Feb 28 13:43:58 :P Feb 28 13:44:57 some of the sinks were near curtains :( Feb 28 13:45:18 Anyone here willing to help me with finding the default start and end cylinder number for the mmcblk0p2 partition? Feb 28 13:45:33 wtf Feb 28 13:45:34 And the default block number? Feb 28 13:45:34 how can i change hildon.touchselector to scroll horizontal and vertical? I script in python Feb 28 13:47:44 Kusk: why don't you just sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 Feb 28 13:48:55 villager: Because I found https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?RepartitionInstructions&id=1382&type=g :-) Feb 28 13:49:46 Kusk: oh, you've already wiped the partition? Feb 28 13:49:52 yes Feb 28 13:50:57 Kusk: ok, well it looks like the numbers are listed there Feb 28 13:51:41 woo, new gpodder available Feb 28 13:52:40 Kusk: well, my p2 starts and ends one cylinder earlier than that page says, but anyway Feb 28 13:54:00 villager: Yeah, but it seems that I'm royally screwed. When I try to create an new partition with mkfs.ext3 on /dev/mmcblk0p2 it says: Unknown code ____ 255 while trying to create journal Feb 28 13:55:37 Kusk: you've rebooted I guess? Feb 28 13:56:24 Yes, I deleted the partition in fdisk, rebooted, created it again with fdisk, rebooted, and then ran mkfs.ext3 on mmcblk0p2 Feb 28 13:57:43 does it work with ext2? Feb 28 13:57:45 well, I haven't repartitioned my phone, only PCs (where I've never seen that)... so not sure if I can help Feb 28 13:57:56 because maybe you can make a ext2 then tune2fs Feb 28 13:58:02 does mext2 work? Feb 28 14:00:07 Hmm, it created the ext2 partition without any problems Feb 28 14:01:00 So what should I do with tune2fs? Feb 28 14:01:15 well - you can't tune a fish. Feb 28 14:01:50 See man tune2fs Feb 28 14:01:56 Or can I just leave the partition, change fstab to mount it as ext2 instead of the original ext3? Feb 28 14:01:59 Kusk: tune2fs -j /dev/filesystem, as I recall Feb 28 14:02:21 where filesystem is the mmcblk of course Feb 28 14:02:51 Hmm, well that gave the same "Unknown code ____ 255" error Feb 28 14:02:51 the -j option effectively converts from ext2 to ext3 Feb 28 14:03:08 weird Feb 28 14:06:05 Kusk: the partition isn't in use or anything? Feb 28 14:06:26 I dont think so. Feb 28 14:07:59 So I changed fstab to mount 0p2 as ext2. That just gave the "Invalid argument" error at mount /home Feb 28 14:08:19 does dmesg say anything? Feb 28 14:08:35 http://throwingapples.com/tmp/dmesg.txt Feb 28 14:08:47 Not as far as I can see Feb 28 14:09:20 looks like not Feb 28 14:09:39 what does the partitioning look like now? Feb 28 14:09:59 The same as before Feb 28 14:10:24 All the partitions is there, but not the /home partition Feb 28 14:10:44 can you show the fdisk/sfdisk output? Feb 28 14:14:16 http://throwingapples.com/tmp/sfdisk.txt Feb 28 14:15:02 * lcuk needs a pot of undo for real paper Feb 28 14:15:32 * SpeedEvil passes lcuk a blue-grey painted police box. Feb 28 14:15:56 ty, but its sharp edges rip the paper when i rub it on it Feb 28 14:19:42 Kusk: ping cehteh ! Feb 28 14:19:45 Kusk: if you're desperate, I guess it might be worth trying to wipe the partition with dd before doing mkfs again Feb 28 14:20:39 Kusk: read chanlog 9..15h ago Feb 28 14:22:23 Kusk: fstab is generated, won't prolly survive reboot Feb 28 14:26:21 DocScrutinizer: Well spank me and call me polly! You were right! The partition is now mounted as home! Feb 28 14:26:29 Ah, man, I love how Engadget is completely incapable of using MB/sec and Mbps properly Feb 28 14:26:42 "MBps" is not an acceptable compromise. Feb 28 14:28:34 lol Feb 28 14:29:00 TNpm Feb 28 14:29:24 KWph Feb 28 14:30:15 Kusk: maybe the new page http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash can help? Feb 28 14:30:20 that's why i never use abbreviations of megabytes and megabits Feb 28 14:30:29 because i never remember if it's Mb or MB Feb 28 14:30:53 and then some wanker came up with idea of havin 2 more units Feb 28 14:31:00 Mib and MiB Feb 28 14:31:06 t-tan: Nope, it didn't help. But now I have mounted it as ext2 Feb 28 14:31:49 I just need to find the best way to auto mount the partition as ext2 instead of ext3 at boot Feb 28 14:32:10 Kusk: something must be seriously wrong with your device Feb 28 14:32:26 OK, is the Angry Birds level pack actually available? Feb 28 14:32:40 Showing "Item unavailable" here. Feb 28 14:32:42 yeah, proberly. The email client have never worked either Feb 28 14:33:15 Kusk: you could set the partitions to type 0, reboot with temporary /home on NAND, and recreate the partitions Feb 28 14:33:45 GAN900: think someone said yesterday that the paid content was pulled again Feb 28 14:34:14 jacekowski, MB/sec are the big kind. Mbps are the small ones. Feb 28 14:34:31 villager, they figured out that patching apt was a dumb plan? Feb 28 14:34:39 GAN900: no idea Feb 28 14:34:54 possibly Feb 28 14:35:13 Love it. Feb 28 14:35:32 waah they tried to implement DRM in apt?? Feb 28 14:35:57 they did? Feb 28 14:36:09 all I see is that you can't install apps from Ovi using apt any longer Feb 28 14:36:53 DocScrutinizer, no, they just patched it to lock out the Ovi stuff. Feb 28 14:37:09 Somebody package up apt from PR1.1. ;) Feb 28 14:37:14 GAN900: even more stupid Feb 28 14:37:31 fwiw Feb 28 14:37:43 ovi is supposed to stop supporting pre 1.2 roughly as soon as 1.2 ships Feb 28 14:37:50 DocScrutinizer, it's highly entertaining however. Feb 28 14:37:51 the goal is to get everyone to upgrade to 1.2 Feb 28 14:37:57 even the annoying regional/operator variants Feb 28 14:38:03 GAN900: ack Feb 28 14:38:10 does anyone actually care about ovi? Feb 28 14:38:16 given that 1.2 will have a newer gecko Feb 28 14:38:19 i'm quite happy w/ that Feb 28 14:38:33 timeless_mbp, speed improvements? Feb 28 14:38:46 nice timeless :) Feb 28 14:38:57 timeless_mbp, is zooming usable yet? Feb 28 14:39:09 They found the right person to kidnap to blackmail into flash speed improvements? Feb 28 14:39:12 * GAN900 can't believe Nokia advertised zooming. Feb 28 14:39:12 is 1.2 released? Feb 28 14:39:32 GAN900: well-done zooming is a featurew Feb 28 14:39:42 GAN900: which is why it's odd that it's not everywhere Feb 28 14:39:51 GAN900: i think in theory some version of gecko will include useful font kerning Feb 28 14:39:52 GAN900: the pdf browser needs some zoomy love Feb 28 14:39:58 you won't get reflow w/o a keystroke iirc Feb 28 14:40:09 SpeedEvil, yeah, and Gecko's broken freaking font rendering makes any and all zooming useless. Feb 28 14:41:11 GAN900: supposedly that'l be fixed in some upgrade, i can't remember if i have a new enough gecko locally to be sure it's in our 1.2 Feb 28 14:41:14 sp3000 would know Feb 28 14:41:40 the reflow is crap too, if I want to fit the article text on the screen, not the webpage's huge left navigation bar Feb 28 14:41:56 villager: greasemonkey.. Feb 28 14:42:16 you're never going to get a particularly good algorithm for this w/o violating a constraint Feb 28 14:42:28 the official primary constraint is that a page should look like it does on the desktop Feb 28 14:42:41 w/ that constraint, zooming will never be particularly useful Feb 28 14:42:45 impossible mission Feb 28 14:42:52 yep Feb 28 14:43:56 I'm perfectly happy with ^i Feb 28 14:44:34 * timeless_mbp frowns Feb 28 14:44:39 You are currently using 6971 MB (93%) of your 7428 MB. Feb 28 14:44:43 * timeless_mbp is running out of space Feb 28 14:44:46 (and time) Feb 28 14:45:01 i got the cpu load on my n900 to hit 15 yesterday =o Feb 28 14:45:12 doing what? Feb 28 14:45:14 scp Feb 28 14:45:27 eh… just scp? Feb 28 14:45:27 scp'd a 500mb or so file to it via wifi Feb 28 14:45:36 yep Feb 28 14:45:37 lol Feb 28 14:45:45 * timeless_mbp frowns Feb 28 14:45:50 why? Feb 28 14:46:23 well, the general theory of the load is 'number of waiting processes' Feb 28 14:46:28 scp should be at most 2 processes Feb 28 14:46:41 which means you somehow managed to bottleneck another dozen or so processes Feb 28 14:46:50 i guess Feb 28 14:47:04 later today i'll do it again, see if that happens again Feb 28 14:47:04 the question is 'how would that happen'? Feb 28 14:47:25 nice? Feb 28 14:48:04 this time i'll be sure nothing else of mine is running, and just scp Feb 28 14:48:19 15 isn't too high Feb 28 14:48:30 but as soon as the transfer was done, load went back to normal Feb 28 14:48:37 15 is really high O_o Feb 28 14:48:42 not really Feb 28 14:49:06 for a single cpu, one core, with no hyper threading it is Feb 28 14:49:12 tbh I don't give a shit on load. Power consumption, responsiveness - yeah. Not load Feb 28 14:49:26 pronto: that depends on scheduler Feb 28 14:49:27 jacekowski, for a device that should have desktop-like response characteristics, it's way too much Feb 28 14:49:36 well , when it was at 15 load, it was laggy has hell Feb 28 14:49:38 pronto: staircase deadline scheduler can handle 90 or more Feb 28 14:49:50 pronto: and it's still responsive Feb 28 14:50:01 well i'm talking about for the n900 :\ Feb 28 14:50:08 similiar one Feb 28 14:50:08 not some silly thing you know of Feb 28 14:50:31 current kernel scheduler is sort of similiar to staircase deadline Feb 28 14:51:41 15:49 < pronto> for a single cpu, one core, with no hyper threading it is Feb 28 14:51:59 for a handheld device a load of 15 is way to high Feb 28 14:52:01 I'm not sure if anyone cares, the fact of the matter is, desktop responsiveness under heavy I/O sucks Feb 28 14:52:12 *heavy disk I/O Feb 28 14:52:13 load avg should be smaller as you get more cpus Feb 28 14:52:18 TomaszD: yeah Feb 28 14:52:23 hell i bet mainframe performance under heavy load sucks Feb 28 14:52:32 it's ussualy I/O that kills it all Feb 28 14:52:34 not CPU Feb 28 14:52:50 TomaszD, there were some improvements in 2.6.32 regarding that matter Feb 28 14:53:13 the kernel is set for maximum I/O throughput, not responsiveness, look at how Windows throttles any disk activity down to make the desktop perform better Feb 28 14:53:33 and that's the most stupid thing about linux :> Feb 28 14:53:35 sound used to stutter in Linux under heavy I/O, now it's better, but still not perfect Feb 28 14:53:47 still does Feb 28 14:53:58 play a sound while installing something through the app manager Feb 28 14:54:09 here it doesn't, but I think it has more to do with how powerful computers have become than anything else Feb 28 14:54:16 n900 Feb 28 14:54:20 ah, see Feb 28 14:54:25 here it does the same Feb 28 14:55:04 Kolivas still releases his patches Feb 28 14:55:14 I wonder if they'd help on the n900 Feb 28 14:59:33 brainfuck scheduler :) if I had time to install it, I'd use it Feb 28 14:59:47 sound always stuttered when wormux was loading here... not sure if it's still the case, since I haven't tried after deciding I don't really know how to play... the dumb AI always beat me hands down, and now they've got a better AI... Feb 28 15:04:11 morning Feb 28 15:05:01 javispedro: good afternoon Feb 28 15:05:16 hey javispedro \o Feb 28 15:05:46 * Shapeshifter played through day of the tentacle on his n900 yesterday :) Feb 28 15:08:28 moin javispedro Feb 28 15:13:40 can someone point me to some documents for beginning maemo development with python? Feb 28 15:15:32 I think I'd prefer to use gtk+, since I'm also interested in gnome projects. Feb 28 15:16:08 jo-erlend, afaik the pygtk documentation in general applies Feb 28 15:16:28 hm.. I much preferred the older fmradio interface. Feb 28 15:16:30 but there are some minor specifics for integrating with maemo on the maemo wiki i believe Feb 28 15:16:39 the new fmradio is too much appleish. Feb 28 15:16:47 javispedro, blog post or installed Feb 28 15:16:51 A court ruled that a Russian man must pay more than 100,000 rubles ($3,330) for medical bills and damages to the parents of a girl he hit when he jumped from a window in a suicide attempt. The 7-year-old girl was in hospital for months after the man fell on her [...] Feb 28 15:16:52 installed Feb 28 15:17:09 "Months in the hospital" for only 3 grand? Where the hell is that hospital??? Feb 28 15:17:19 in Russia. Feb 28 15:17:24 good point Feb 28 15:18:08 javispedro: amazing how you made something very attractive much less attractive just by stating the obvious Feb 28 15:18:44 it's just as attractive as it was previously to me :) Feb 28 15:18:56 who's attractive? Feb 28 15:19:20 me Feb 28 15:19:24 Arif_: Hayden Panetierre Feb 28 15:19:31 o.O Feb 28 15:19:53 blonde :( Feb 28 15:21:15 * javispedro tries to remember which kind of bug made him create a testcase consisting in "int main() { return 2;; }" Feb 28 15:21:40 javispedro: $_ always returns null? Feb 28 15:22:17 dunno -- not a bash script but a C++ program, and it doesnot even call the binary. Feb 28 15:22:29 well. *hits rm -rf key* Feb 28 15:27:05 crashanddie: $_ is your previous last argument Feb 28 15:27:11 crashanddie: at least in bash Feb 28 15:27:22 crashanddie: in csh it's your previous command Feb 28 15:27:47 arachnist: highlight me once more when I'm in bed for something so futile, and I'll kick you Feb 28 15:28:07 crashanddie: i dare you ;) Feb 28 15:28:28 heh. Feb 28 15:28:51 http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.php?pic=images/newspics/26feb10/4.jpg Feb 28 15:28:53 heh Feb 28 15:28:54 now, that was childish Feb 28 15:29:21 I'm not the one going around daring people to kick me Feb 28 15:29:33 * Arif_ kicks crashanddie Feb 28 15:29:38 anyway, goodnight Feb 28 15:29:41 niht Feb 28 15:30:36 nite Feb 28 15:36:33 crashanddie, are you asleep yet? Feb 28 15:36:48 if not, i just wanted to say good night, have a great sleep Feb 28 15:37:02 you pinged him! Feb 28 15:37:09 * crashanddie shuts down the fucking sound Feb 28 15:37:34 thats a better solution Feb 28 15:38:12 night Feb 28 15:38:15 \o Feb 28 15:46:08 hmm Feb 28 15:46:22 who is this weird person on the forum talking about warez being bad Feb 28 15:46:24 =D Feb 28 15:53:38 I can't believe Im saying this Feb 28 15:53:46 but Im thinking about switching back to tmobile Feb 28 15:53:53 looks like they have great 3g coverage in my area Feb 28 15:55:37 I'm on TMobile Feb 28 15:56:32 ahaaaaaaa - got irc working... shocker Feb 28 15:56:45 wow Feb 28 15:56:50 you installed an iRC program! Feb 28 15:56:55 lol :) Feb 28 15:57:09 havnt used irc properly for at least 10 years.... Feb 28 15:57:20 which IRC client? Feb 28 15:57:22 lemme version you Feb 28 15:57:24 anyway... i need some clever people help :) - asking q's in the forums takes too lon glol Feb 28 15:57:29 I'LL DISCOVER IT! Feb 28 15:57:40 mIRC \o/ Feb 28 15:57:42 * SpeedEvil is alsot-mobile(uk) Feb 28 15:57:43 baah... so many interesting projects to tackle, so little time. Feb 28 15:57:43 also Feb 28 15:57:47 lol everyone is versioning me now Feb 28 15:57:54 13:09 CTCP VERSION reply from n00bmonk3y: mIRC v6.35 Khaled Mardam-Bey Feb 28 15:57:58 mIRC??? Feb 28 15:58:05 on the N900? Feb 28 15:58:05 I just wanted to get on here to get help Feb 28 15:58:11 not planning on marrying an irc client Feb 28 15:58:18 on my laptop lol Feb 28 15:58:21 that's the problem with irc -- you always end up married. Feb 28 15:58:22 n900 is next to me lol Feb 28 15:58:25 Feb 28 15:58:31 lol javis Feb 28 15:58:46 for the N900 X-Chat is nice, although if you dig text clients, irssi is also available Feb 28 15:58:58 guis ftw Feb 28 15:59:01 hiya n00bmonk3y Feb 28 15:59:05 anyway acan someone explain the postinst stuff for me?, i'm stuck! (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=549937#post549937) Feb 28 15:59:09 hey lcuk!! Feb 28 15:59:14 thanks for your help btw :) Feb 28 16:00:22 yw :) Feb 28 16:00:48 * lcuk gets on with eating monster scooby snack style sandwich Feb 28 16:00:57 lol Feb 28 16:01:09 hmmm my qyestion has shut everyone up lol Feb 28 16:01:13 * n00bmonk3y ponders Feb 28 16:01:20 * n00bmonk3y remembers old irc commands, shocker Feb 28 16:01:32 * Arif_ yawns Feb 28 16:01:58 the concept is simple Feb 28 16:02:05 rpm also has it Feb 28 16:02:15 when installing or desinstalling a package, it runs scripts: Feb 28 16:02:23 yup got that! :D Feb 28 16:02:30 created the sudoers file.. Feb 28 16:02:35 put it in the suggested location :D Feb 28 16:02:41 - before it is actually installed (that is, before its files get to their proper places), that's preinst Feb 28 16:02:51 now just need to know if i create postinst files? or do i just leave them Feb 28 16:02:55 - after it is actually installed, postinst Feb 28 16:02:56 and my sudoers file is enough? Feb 28 16:03:03 - before it is deinstalled, prerm Feb 28 16:03:09 - after it is deinstalled, postrm Feb 28 16:03:46 hmmmm still doesnt explain what i need to do :P Feb 28 16:03:55 it is nice to undo any changes you have made on deinstalling the programa (prerm and postrm scripts) Feb 28 16:04:00 to be safe i always include postapocalypse file Feb 28 16:04:02 ahhh gd point Feb 28 16:04:03 it might be wise to read a good tutorial about package management for it, because I am not very good to explain that Feb 28 16:04:06 lol lcuk! Feb 28 16:04:27 thats the prob ptl... so many tutorials, very hard to know what solution is for what method and to be used when..... Feb 28 16:04:51 with qt being cross platform and not every system uses debian Feb 28 16:05:11 (ie meego..) Feb 28 16:05:14 many tutorials? for apt you have the apt-howto Feb 28 16:05:14 good point Feb 28 16:05:20 i wonder if a qt native solution might be available Feb 28 16:05:32 and for rpm there are a couple of good tutorials too Feb 28 16:05:37 well, i used autobuilder and i got my app in devel :) - i thought that was me done lol Feb 28 16:05:41 thats the thing Feb 28 16:05:42 when I learned rpm, there was something called maximum rpm Feb 28 16:05:54 with qt you shouldnt care for debian or rpm and installshield or anything Feb 28 16:06:14 to be honest, i dont know enough about linux, i have sneaked this far in my pythoning without to much of it.... Feb 28 16:06:20 lcuk: currently you have to care. Feb 28 16:06:49 Nokia pointed that since they wanted you to care about .deb packaging & symbian packaging, they don't mind making you care about RPM packaging too :P Feb 28 16:06:58 then the paradigm fails and solutions sould be saught Feb 28 16:07:03 hmmm anyway back to the question..... Feb 28 16:07:12 I understand i need to run commands on install and uninstall Feb 28 16:07:23 do i create a postinst file? if so where do i put it? Feb 28 16:07:23 n00bmonk3y: I'm still suspicious why you'd need to run apt-get clean from your program :P Feb 28 16:07:32 javis - best not to ask lol Feb 28 16:07:47 n00bmonk3y, doesnt reboot work already Feb 28 16:07:50 why do you need to mess Feb 28 16:07:54 reboot works fine :D Feb 28 16:07:56 ie, i found reboot ! Feb 28 16:08:21 i was to run a script that saves n900 rootfs space :) (Moves icon folders etc etc) - needs root Feb 28 16:08:25 and, no adding apt-get to the user list isnt the right way Feb 28 16:08:42 lcuk - moved the reboot button in the next version Feb 28 16:09:14 excellent Feb 28 16:09:27 as for space saving, there are other things in progress afaik :) Feb 28 16:09:31 http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/debian/changelog Feb 28 16:09:36 open source ftw Feb 28 16:09:37 lcuk: hey, i used to have a reboot in my package :) Feb 28 16:10:04 was yours added on purpose tho! Feb 28 16:10:24 ;) Feb 28 16:10:51 anywy, even if someone else is doing it, doesnt stop me from wanting to do it also :D Feb 28 16:10:57 indeed Feb 28 16:11:12 did you know that the postinst script is run under root context Feb 28 16:11:21 ie, you dont need to add to sudoers Feb 28 16:11:42 if your action is one off and only needs to occur at install time Feb 28 16:11:44 have to admit i'm doing this slowly... but enoying the whole experience, even if 100 times for confusing then vb etc... just because learning resources are so hard to find! Feb 28 16:11:55 +100 Feb 28 16:12:02 how long have you been a vb developer? Feb 28 16:12:23 lol thats an interesting one... but have done vb / asp etc on and off for 15 years..... Feb 28 16:12:41 (damn i'm getting old) Feb 28 16:12:52 heh i felt that at my 35 birthday a couple of weeks ago Feb 28 16:12:55 * lcuk shudders Feb 28 16:12:59 awwwwwww Feb 28 16:13:05 awww Feb 28 16:13:06 8 months till i go over the hill...... Feb 28 16:13:10 you're more than twice my age....:P Feb 28 16:13:31 Arif_, and you should have twice the experience i do with linux! Feb 28 16:13:38 lol Feb 28 16:13:47 apt-get install rtorrent Feb 28 16:13:49 is all I need Feb 28 16:13:49 :D Feb 28 16:14:11 timeless, which package? Feb 28 16:14:17 the languages one? Feb 28 16:14:26 Hey guys, anyone know if there's a browser object I can use in an app to show html? I'm a bit new at this gtk/hildon lark Feb 28 16:15:03 qwebview in qt i think? but i'm just as new :P Feb 28 16:15:04 n00bmonk3y, you see in that optify script i posted Feb 28 16:15:12 it has contents in the debian folder Feb 28 16:15:21 this one? http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/debian/changelog Feb 28 16:15:25 when the debian package is built, if postinstall exists it is dragged into package Feb 28 16:15:33 yeah go back a level from there Feb 28 16:15:54 ahhhh Feb 28 16:15:58 can see a debian folder Feb 28 16:16:07 changelog Feb 28 16:16:07 compat Feb 28 16:16:08 control Feb 28 16:16:08 copyright Feb 28 16:16:08 postinst Feb 28 16:16:08 rules Feb 28 16:16:10 hmm, not using qt Feb 28 16:16:17 gotcha!!! Feb 28 16:16:19 yeah, that package is a very simplistic script only one, but should allow you to see what you need Feb 28 16:16:37 timeless, incase you missed it Feb 28 16:16:42 timeless, which package? Feb 28 16:16:53 lcuk: my string replacement Feb 28 16:17:05 yeah thats perfect! Feb 28 16:17:07 ahh yes, i can see why that needed Feb 28 16:17:08 while i was having trouble w/ files being used w/o proper locking Feb 28 16:17:14 thanks Lcuk Feb 28 16:17:22 np again Feb 28 16:17:27 i skip the reboot these days, but it doesn't work perfectly Feb 28 16:17:39 locale swaps really do need reboots... Feb 28 16:24:01 benbrown, ive seen a couple of gtk html widgets, im sure someone went over all of them in talk.maemo.org Feb 28 16:24:22 * lcuk goes watching babylon 5 Feb 28 16:24:25 ooh Feb 28 16:24:39 me wants. it's been quite a lot of time since they last syndicated it here. Feb 28 16:24:40 anyone know what user/bin/xorg does? Feb 28 16:24:59 it's a virus! it shows windows and graphics stuff instead of command line prompts Feb 28 16:25:15 Arif_, i havent got a /user/bin/xorg Feb 28 16:25:22 hmm Feb 28 16:25:29 heh Feb 28 16:25:31 isn't it /usr Feb 28 16:25:32 ? Feb 28 16:25:38 ;) Feb 28 16:25:39 could be Feb 28 16:25:52 dangerous virus, has infected almost every Linux installation Feb 28 16:26:04 for good reason! Feb 28 16:26:13 I found out why my battery was 1/4th full when I woke up Feb 28 16:26:16 anyone who knows the console stuff is a witch Feb 28 16:26:19 apparently recaller was running for 12 hours Feb 28 16:27:10 * lcuk gahs at media player date order lists and not seeing entire title of what i want to watch Feb 28 16:27:49 Still no UK update. Feb 28 16:27:53 * javispedro has fallen in love with mediaplayer now that all my albums have albumart Feb 28 16:27:58 :) Feb 28 16:28:09 * Arif_ has the feeling the media player was written in like 2 hours Feb 28 16:30:57 w000p - just bought a book on pyqt :D Feb 28 16:31:22 what is this bought thing you talk about :p Feb 28 16:31:54 know its got old stuff in it, but hopefully will be a good reference - http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0132354187/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE Feb 28 16:32:13 hmm Feb 28 16:32:18 the last app I bought was DVBViewer Feb 28 16:32:35 lol book, not app :P Feb 28 16:32:48 it both involves giving money! Feb 28 16:32:55 good point :P Feb 28 16:33:40 ` Feb 28 16:34:18 ooh http://thesurrealist.co.uk/feedback Feb 28 16:34:34 lol! Feb 28 16:34:48 lol Feb 28 16:35:36 The item was peerless - genius! Feb 28 16:36:11 * Arif_ makes some of these comments and posts them to Ovi store Feb 28 16:36:56 Be sure to use the phase, "Remarkably quotidian packaging." Feb 28 16:36:58 is it possible on the n900 te get nokia messaging using wifi insted gprs? Feb 28 16:37:24 I can't see an option Feb 28 16:39:13 SWFu: um Feb 28 16:39:23 afaik nokia messaging doesn't care Feb 28 16:39:30 and will use your 'internet' connection Feb 28 16:39:31 Ooo lcuk - got the the front camera working on healthcheck! Feb 28 16:39:43 however, i don't use nokia messaging Feb 28 16:39:57 only running gprs here, pretty anoying when trying to attachments Feb 28 16:40:17 *send Feb 28 16:41:56 lol the back one isnt now lol Feb 28 16:45:42 You can't use both camera at the same time Feb 28 16:46:20 yeah i know Feb 28 16:46:25 wohooo both working now :) Feb 28 16:48:43 hm Feb 28 16:48:54 is it supposed to take ages to charge the phone over USB? Feb 28 16:49:10 from a cpu you mean ? Feb 28 16:49:19 from the PC Feb 28 16:49:25 yeah Feb 28 16:49:27 it's still charging after 3 hours Feb 28 16:49:33 wow Feb 28 16:49:44 I have the feeling something is eating my battery :O Feb 28 16:50:07 nah USB charging is slow Feb 28 16:51:42 check with Conky Feb 28 16:52:14 I meant for rogue application that is eating your battery Feb 28 16:52:46 * Arif_ should Feb 28 16:53:17 usb charging takes 5-6 hours here Feb 28 16:53:23 yeah Feb 28 16:53:28 it is slow Feb 28 16:53:33 Arif_, USB is only 500mA Feb 28 16:53:39 w00p Healthcheck 0.5.1-1 on its way to autobuilder :) Feb 28 16:53:47 The AC-10 is 1200 Feb 28 16:53:56 lcuk - this one includes your button move ;) hehe - and the front camera option Feb 28 16:54:04 that makes sense Feb 28 16:54:12 it takes about 2+ hours to charge via the normal charger Feb 28 16:59:38 Hello. Anyone here who has built c-python modules under scratchbox? I get the error message: /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-as: unrecognized option `-Qy Feb 28 17:01:45 w000p 0.5.1-1 in extras-devel :) Feb 28 17:01:49 sorry dov - no idea :( Feb 28 17:02:09 did telepathy-msn-pecan just brake with the latest update? Feb 28 17:02:21 Got it. Did "python2.5 setup.py build" instead of "python setup.py build". Feb 28 17:02:28 hehe :) Feb 28 17:03:17 * dov is now going to check if his zoom-key disabling python module works on the N900. Feb 28 17:07:28 right off out :) - cheers for your help earlier everyone :D Feb 28 17:12:12 i forgot who was asking but battery went from full at 10:30 to low battery warning at 16:55 Feb 28 17:12:37 worry 15:55 Feb 28 17:12:41 sorry Feb 28 17:13:53 pupnik, what were you running Feb 28 17:15:03 full backlight, high CPU load, and maybe heavy UMTS traffic, I guess Feb 28 17:15:05 irc, podcasts, opened perhaps 20 webpages Feb 28 17:15:12 wifi Feb 28 17:15:33 just stream a tv channel Feb 28 17:15:33 3 bard backlight Feb 28 17:15:38 your battery will die in less than a hour Feb 28 17:15:39 :> Feb 28 17:15:50 well, some of those 20 pages might have flash Feb 28 17:15:54 flash enabled or disabled? Feb 28 17:16:49 N900 seems to be hit and miss Feb 28 17:16:52 =P Feb 28 17:17:08 the fastest battery drain I've seen was when the thumbnailerd was stuck. Feb 28 17:17:21 eh hi ... Feb 28 17:17:36 hai Feb 28 17:17:36 (or was rescanning everything.. i'm not sure... I've >1GB photos in SD card) Feb 28 17:18:00 V13, what about Quake 3 multiplayer over 3G on TV out Feb 28 17:18:04 :D Feb 28 17:18:09 with a bluetooth keyboard! Feb 28 17:18:20 anyone else has telepathy-msn-pecan installed? Feb 28 17:18:21 and conversations set to show your location on MSN and Skype Feb 28 17:18:48 I wonder how long it'll last that way Feb 28 17:20:07 V13: could have had some thumbnailer lameness too. disabling it now Feb 28 17:20:19 If the N900 is connected to the powercord, can you use the phone "infinitely"? I'm in a situtation that when it is on it drains faster than it charges. :-( Feb 28 17:20:35 pupnik: flash! Feb 28 17:20:44 hard to believe dov Feb 28 17:20:46 think i finaly curteled my 800's battery vampire som what as im curently getign about a day idle time with wifi on Feb 28 17:21:21 good Feb 28 17:21:23 dov, with the wall charger you wont be able to draw more power than it gives Feb 28 17:21:39 ShadowJK: famous last words? :) Feb 28 17:22:05 on USB when using N900 as USB modem, I've sometimes seen the voltage steadily inch downwards Feb 28 17:22:06 stuck demions are batery killers Feb 28 17:22:27 Top doesn't show anything. Feb 28 17:22:56 Perhaps the charger is bad. I should try with the usb cable and see if it makes a difference. Feb 28 17:23:01 ~tell ShadowJK about batteryfaq Feb 28 17:23:16 eh, again? Feb 28 17:24:27 what for.. Feb 28 17:25:31 dropping voltage is a normal effect Feb 28 17:25:35 ah so Feb 28 17:26:05 dov powercord or usb? Feb 28 17:26:06 DocScrutinizer, well from ~4100 to ~3700 while connected to usb charging? :-) Feb 28 17:26:08 and what else is running Feb 28 17:26:23 ShadowJK: does it really charge? Feb 28 17:26:25 icuk: powercord Feb 28 17:26:26 ShadowJK: no, that's too much Feb 28 17:26:46 It started climbing up again once I closed the 2MBit/s video stream I had been watching :P Feb 28 17:26:54 (on my PC, with N900 as modem) Feb 28 17:27:04 dov sounds like something else is going on, tho the fastest way to charge is to turn off everything, usually its not so drastic Feb 28 17:27:09 icuk: It happened both when I was watching a "local" movie, but since then when the N900 was basically idle. Feb 28 17:27:17 does your cell signal fluctuate often Feb 28 17:27:28 ps, its L Feb 28 17:27:36 icuk: Nope. Feb 28 17:27:56 SpeedEvil, someone posted the N900 schematics, if you still want them Feb 28 17:27:58 I installed battery eye now and will see how fast it charges in offline mode. Feb 28 17:28:18 MohammadAG: WHERE?? Feb 28 17:28:28 knock yourself out http://rapidshare.com/files/357130766/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf Feb 28 17:28:32 dov, its likely something else is afoot Feb 28 17:28:37 dov: battery-eye and basically all the meters don't update during charge Feb 28 17:28:43 "Service Schematics" Feb 28 17:28:48 never thought I'd see these Feb 28 17:29:10 shadowjk: Right, but at least I'll get a snapshot at the beginning of the charging and at the end of the charging and can see how fast it charges. Feb 28 17:29:11 Some time after the battery is full, battery-eye and friends update to full :P Feb 28 17:29:38 It averages out to about 500mA charge rate empty to full Feb 28 17:29:48 (80 - 95% is very slow) Feb 28 17:29:49 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/27/internet_3_dot_0_policy/ us government asshole announces new era of internet regulation Feb 28 17:30:06 shadowjk: That's the drain from the power cord? Feb 28 17:30:41 shadowjk: Do you know how much is the max drain from usb according to the usb spec? Feb 28 17:30:48 500 Feb 28 17:30:56 DocScrutinizer, Venomrush found them, he's on tmo, seen the post on Nokia Users Feb 28 17:31:16 rapidshare doesn't want to serve free users tonight :-( Feb 28 17:31:21 MohammadAG: thanks! Feb 28 17:31:35 ShadowJK, I can happily reupload it for you :) Feb 28 17:31:39 ShadowJK: yeah :-( Feb 28 17:32:09 dov, the charge starts out at 1200mA from the wall charger, as the battery gets fuller and fuller the rate is lowered and lowered, at probably 50-100mA charge rate the battery is then declared full Feb 28 17:32:14 MohammadAG, do it :-) Feb 28 17:32:18 reupping, if you want the link send me a /notice since I'm trafficsharing it :) Feb 28 17:32:42 something's not right Upload speed: 20 KB/Sec, Time remaining: 4:32 minutes :/ Feb 28 17:32:49 So with a 1320 charger it should take roughly 2h. Feb 28 17:33:12 That's not happening to me. Not even with the device off. Feb 28 17:33:12 dov, something like that yeah Feb 28 17:33:34 turn off wireless, shut down apps, turn screen off and you could do it faster Feb 28 17:33:34 s/1320 charger/1320mAh battery/ Feb 28 17:34:00 * lcuk charges like that from laptop->n900 whilst travelling Feb 28 17:35:00 dov, yeah i'd try usb from pc too if the wall charger isn't making sense Feb 28 17:35:18 or if you have an old nokia charger, try it with the included adapter (unless you're in the US in whcih case you didn't get an adapter) Feb 28 17:35:34 Hmm... I have a broken Nokia power adapter cord. I could try to connect it to a ampere meter and see how much it draws when charging. Feb 28 17:36:17 are there any inductive charge plates for nokia phones Feb 28 17:36:26 that could be hacked and tried to use on our n900 Feb 28 17:37:02 lcuk make one! Feb 28 17:37:14 and build a toothbrush into the N900 while you're at it Feb 28 17:37:30 there's probably enough space to put a few liter of toothpaste somewhere in there anyway :D Feb 28 17:38:03 Arif_, nahh toothpaste is ugly Feb 28 17:38:12 security at airports dont like it when it oozes out Feb 28 17:38:24 tea? Feb 28 17:38:25 hard enough trying to hide the bacon grill Feb 28 17:38:31 lcuk: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250583707300&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123 Feb 28 17:39:03 SpeedEvil, there is one of those already under the screen Feb 28 17:39:16 if you place a rasher of bacon on the open keyboard and slide it in Feb 28 17:39:24 hey did you noticed that you can pull the stylus 2/3 out while phoning for the classic antenna feel? :) Feb 28 17:39:24 a few minutes later it will be cooked Feb 28 17:39:31 theres even little trip channels Feb 28 17:39:44 ok it on the wrong side :P Feb 28 17:39:45 cehteh I lost mine so no :( Feb 28 17:39:56 6Eur ... Feb 28 17:40:01 cehteh, was just gonna say "classic mobile n00b holding phone wrong way Feb 28 17:40:09 meh Feb 28 17:40:11 I thought of it Feb 28 17:40:19 and €7 is too much for a pen :P Feb 28 17:40:26 yeah Feb 28 17:40:28 I ordered an external charger instead Feb 28 17:40:35 especially one with no ink Feb 28 17:40:35 and 2 batteries :P Feb 28 17:40:50 I"ll just grow nails I guess Feb 28 17:40:52 =D Feb 28 17:41:13 * lcuk watches next babylon 5 episode Feb 28 17:41:25 on the N900? ;P Feb 28 17:41:31 yes actually Feb 28 17:41:34 ok .. i tinhk all restored now, did just the last bits, making MyDocs ext4 Feb 28 17:41:48 gonna reformat the uSD too Feb 28 17:41:53 gotta love those downloaded XviDs \o/ Feb 28 17:41:59 Arif_, i used to watch things in a little window whilst still carrying on coding Feb 28 17:42:04 now i just use n900 Feb 28 17:42:17 try watching it fullscreen Feb 28 17:42:30 Arif_, dvd reencodes actually Feb 28 17:42:39 that'll work too I guess Feb 28 17:42:41 and nahhh fullscreen is OTT Feb 28 17:42:54 ive got a pair of monitors Feb 28 17:43:08 and having movie on with volume == loud bings and bongs from os Feb 28 17:43:13 when doing stuff on other screen Feb 28 17:43:16 * Arif_ has 100 GB of recorded stuff he still has to watch :O Feb 28 17:43:42 which probably equals to about 10 hours :P Feb 28 17:43:55 these eps are really encoded low Feb 28 17:44:00 i did them first for my 810 Feb 28 17:44:09 only 120mb per episode Feb 28 17:44:12 hmm Feb 28 17:44:15 these are direct satrips Feb 28 17:44:18 GRRR Feb 28 17:44:19 no encoding yet Feb 28 17:44:48 someone with a RS premium account can send me a mail with that friggin file please? Feb 28 17:44:59 what file Feb 28 17:46:05 are you downloading warez again :P Feb 28 17:48:03 cehteh: did you feel any improvement with ext4? Feb 28 17:49:09 Mediafire link for the schematics http://www.mediafire.com/file/mbvqetzw4gm/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf Feb 28 17:50:06 can anyone help me confirm something with MCE / the LEDs on the N900? Feb 28 17:50:14 ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg lets you disable indexing on battery. nice Feb 28 17:50:42 indexing on battery? Feb 28 17:51:02 so it won't index when the battery is <%20 or something? Feb 28 17:51:03 When the N900's light sensor is put under a strong light (sunlight should be enough), the LED's brightness goes down by a huge amount Feb 28 17:51:30 hmm Feb 28 17:51:37 I'd like to help you with that but we have no sun in .nl Feb 28 17:51:45 lol Feb 28 17:51:49 MohammadAG: oh, I've been wondering why my leds are so dark Feb 28 17:51:51 lol any white light should do the same Feb 28 17:51:55 Arif_: no, it disables indexing when on battery Feb 28 17:52:03 oh Feb 28 17:52:05 even better! Feb 28 17:52:08 I thought mine shorted or something Feb 28 17:52:17 and you can't fix that? xD Feb 28 17:52:43 restarted MCE but the LEDs didn't work, when I went home, the LED was working again Feb 28 17:52:51 MohammadAG: led dark even when covering the light sensor Feb 28 17:53:07 dark as in? Feb 28 17:53:16 hmm Feb 28 17:53:19 mine stops working under light Feb 28 17:53:22 I found glow in the dark contact lenses Feb 28 17:53:23 :D Feb 28 17:53:34 * MohammadAG facepalms Feb 28 17:54:58 MohammadAG: the charging led is normally bright orange. mine is sometimes barely noticeable green Feb 28 17:55:21 SpeedEvil: PaulFertser: GAIA VBUS and VINTUSB1P5.OUT Feb 28 17:55:26 could be broken? Feb 28 17:56:04 VBAT.USB VUSB.3P1 Feb 28 17:56:23 no indexing when running on battery Arif_ Feb 28 17:56:27 MohammadAG: dunno, seems random. Feb 28 17:57:27 so the good news: USB hostmode not completely dead yet Feb 28 17:57:51 :D Feb 28 17:58:27 * dov managed to disable the volume-keys from python! Feb 28 17:58:30 would help a lot to have a cable that didnt rip off the usb connector Feb 28 18:02:04 You should all read E.M. Forsters "The Machine Stops" - short story about humanity sucked into an indoor-dwelling, internet addicted future humanity - written ca. 1900 Feb 28 18:02:07 http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html Feb 28 18:02:22 hah, the fuel gauge doesn't seem to be connected to any current sensors Feb 28 18:02:24 just as i thought Feb 28 18:02:31 pupnik, welcome to the....present? Feb 28 18:02:51 pupnik, I was thinking of a battery cover that encloses a portable charger (extra battery), it plugs into the USB port to charge it and has a USB port so that you don't have to plug it in or remove it from the port itself when charging Feb 28 18:02:56 if you get what I mean Feb 28 18:03:00 or wait, hm. Feb 28 18:03:01 1909... Feb 28 18:03:09 DocScrutinizer: shiny Feb 28 18:03:17 oh and since it will make it thicker, a large kickstand can be added Feb 28 18:03:25 MohammadAG: seen the mugen extended battery? Feb 28 18:03:27 YOOH Feb 28 18:03:55 pupnik, yeah, the draft photos, the cover looks ugly, and it doesn't 'move' the USB port as I suggested :) Feb 28 18:04:18 how would you attach a seperate usb? Feb 28 18:04:20 MohammadAG, you want an even THICKER N900? Feb 28 18:04:38 pupnik, extender cable in the back cover Feb 28 18:04:44 SpeedEvil: now for N4200 datasheet Feb 28 18:04:48 Arif_, it would make it thicker and longer :) Feb 28 18:04:59 it's already a brick Feb 28 18:05:00 ;P Feb 28 18:05:04 DocScrutinizer: :) not up to reading schematics ATM :/ Feb 28 18:05:12 hi, i am trying to install SDK, but there are some errors (maybe it because of python 2.6.4 and qt 4.6.2) ... Feb 28 18:05:13 R N900? Feb 28 18:05:17 spare batteries and external charger for me Feb 28 18:05:32 $ sudo ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py Feb 28 18:05:33 [sudo] password for imlich: Feb 28 18:05:33 Traceback (most recent call last): Feb 28 18:05:33 File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 3764, in Feb 28 18:05:33 main() Feb 28 18:05:33 File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 3753, in main Feb 28 18:05:35 wizard = InstallWizard() Feb 28 18:05:37 File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 3654, in __init__ Feb 28 18:05:39 self.setPage(PageIdNokiaBins, NokiaBinsPage()) Feb 28 18:05:40 Arif_, I bought it like that and I'm happy that it's a brick :p Feb 28 18:05:41 File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 1768, in __init__ Feb 28 18:05:43 self.registerField(FNInstallNokiaApps, self.nokia_apps_checkbox, "checked", "toggled(bool)") Feb 28 18:05:45 TypeError: QWizardPage.registerField(QString, QWidget, str property=None, SIGNAL() changedSignal=0): argument 4 has unexpected type 'str' Feb 28 18:05:48 QProcess: Destroyed while process is still running. Feb 28 18:05:55 joejoe, pastebin :/ Feb 28 18:06:23 MohammadAG, few lines, what ever. But, is there any solution? Feb 28 18:06:40 not that I know of, do you have Qt4 bindings installed? Feb 28 18:06:51 or pyQt4 IIRC Feb 28 18:07:37 an app which challenges the geekness of our devices http://maemo.org/packages/view/maegirls/ Feb 28 18:08:13 either that or so we can know when our significant other becomes a werewolf Feb 28 18:09:03 i have package python-qt4 Feb 28 18:10:11 Anyone know how to make nice looking buttons with gtk+ on maemo? I've been trying to find it on the forums but my searches aren't pulling back anything useful Feb 28 18:11:13 hmm Feb 28 18:12:22 pupnik, http://i49.tinypic.com/2rprayg.jpg Feb 28 18:12:29 if only there was a microUSB one Feb 28 18:12:29 * dov has now managed to change VolumeDown and VolumeUp to PageUp and PageDown for his python etext reader. Feb 28 18:13:28 has anyone else looked at the schematic pdf and spotted serial/jtag outputs? Feb 28 18:14:06 microlith, isn't there one behind the battery? as mentioned in the wiki page Feb 28 18:14:12 right, there are contacts there Feb 28 18:14:25 I'm trying to spot what they are hooked up to on the schematic Feb 28 18:15:00 serial-console - Enables the serial console (the serial port pins are next to the battery) and causes a shorter battery life. Feb 28 18:15:04 oh ok Feb 28 18:15:19 oh? Feb 28 18:16:57 mhm, it is funny how these omweather updates fail to solve my problems. Feb 28 18:18:05 * ShadowJK just ordered a mugen battery for n900, a few hours too late for the cheaper price :-( Feb 28 18:18:41 nomis: you haven't heard it's just the forecast for next 9 days updated via HAM? :-P Feb 28 18:18:54 hello Feb 28 18:19:02 DocScrutinizer: oh, I see!!1! Feb 28 18:20:19 * DocScrutinizer warming uplaser printer. Got some schem to printout Feb 28 18:20:21 can I use the icons in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/hildon for my maemo-app ? Feb 28 18:20:57 ShadowJK, I MUST know how that works and looks Feb 28 18:21:01 I really am thinking about getting one too Feb 28 18:21:15 did they finally get rid of the concept drawing and show a real pic of the actual product? Feb 28 18:21:16 probably wont get it until end of march though Feb 28 18:21:30 unfortunately im at work atm and mugens site is filtered by websense ;) Feb 28 18:22:17 benbrown: Have you tried gtk themes for changing the buttons? Feb 28 18:22:41 We expect first shipment of N900XL batteries on March 1st. We are re-designing the back cover to make it better and this causes a small delay. First shipment is expected on March 15. Feb 28 18:22:49 ev'ning Feb 28 18:23:32 dov: no, I'm pretty new to this. You got any docs? Feb 28 18:24:16 benbrown: I gave a talk about gtk and perl a few years ago, but the idea is the same no matter what language you write in. See: http://gtk2-perl.sourceforge.net/doc/yapc-2004-perl-gtk2/slides.html Feb 28 18:24:48 * luke-jr ponders a componentized handheld design Feb 28 18:26:21 DocScrutinizer: odd. CIR is indeed hooked to PWM, not CIR UART. Feb 28 18:26:40 yep Feb 28 18:26:45 think it'd waste too much space to put the SoC/RAM/etc in a card and install that in a LCD/keyboard/etc case? ;) Feb 28 18:26:52 dov: any idea which themes come with maemo? Feb 28 18:27:07 SpeedEvil: that's really another game now :-D Feb 28 18:27:15 Probably none except from the default maemo theme. Feb 28 18:28:44 DocScrutinizer: yeah - I'm just casually glancing at stuff not reading it in depth at the moment. Feeling horrible. Feb 28 18:29:07 benbrown: You should be able to install any theme e.g. from http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/ . Feb 28 18:29:18 SpeedEvil: just printing it - for lecture during dinner Feb 28 18:29:55 benbrown: It won't look like maemo anymore though. But it might be good for making a button "stand out". Feb 28 18:32:16 DocScrutinizer r5815? Feb 28 18:33:01 hmm, that's not really what I want Feb 28 18:34:16 DocScrutinizer some sort of tvs I guess Feb 28 18:34:32 I have an app that uses hildon_button_new_with_text, but the buttons look flat. If you compare them with the buttons in the menus, or the Email client, they look a bit rubbish Feb 28 18:36:16 ShadowJK, n000000000 Feb 28 18:36:23 well, still, that might be good Feb 28 18:36:26 benbrown: That's seems to be a "theming decision" in maemo. You can overwrite it (by styles, etc) but then your application will look different from the rest of the maemo applics, for good or for bad. Feb 28 18:36:27 I hope they add a sliding door Feb 28 18:36:34 because the original design looked kinda crappy Feb 28 18:36:35 imo Feb 28 18:36:51 the original design is something someone drew in photoshop Feb 28 18:38:10 SpeedEvil: ESD Feb 28 18:38:29 18/30V Feb 28 18:38:31 The extended battery's cover breaks camerad/proximityd Feb 28 18:38:37 bbl Feb 28 18:38:42 sorry, shortcutd not proximityd Feb 28 18:44:50 I just made another prog but I don't dare posting an announce in t.m.o. :-) Feb 28 18:47:15 SpeedEvil: N1322 ?? Feb 28 18:47:58 incredible Feb 28 18:49:27 MohammadAG, we haven't even seen any covers yet? Feb 28 18:49:45 SpeedEvil: V1303 o.O Feb 28 18:49:49 ShadowJK, the draft photo Feb 28 18:49:53 DocScrutinizer: annoyingly, it can't be searched. Feb 28 18:50:16 the draft photo is useless :P Feb 28 18:50:16 it doesn't have a lens cover, so proximityd will always think the lens is open Feb 28 18:50:22 evince rules Feb 28 18:50:28 or closed, assuming they forgot the black/white part Feb 28 18:52:16 SpeedEvil: much worse are the missing component names Feb 28 18:52:24 DocScrutinizer: annoying, yeah Feb 28 18:52:55 not even the biggest chips got any Feb 28 18:53:14 Wow, so my n900 battery has tanked to half in less than 2 hours of usage Feb 28 18:53:26 But stuff like partnumbers for the prox sensor or battery charge meter'd be nice Feb 28 18:53:29 anyway. Feb 28 18:53:32 * SpeedEvil goes to sleep. Feb 28 18:53:50 not to mention things like N1301 which I know happens to be LP5523 Feb 28 18:54:08 a nice annotated schem would be nice - but... Feb 28 18:54:23 Would anyone of you have a need for a spare stylus for N800? Feb 28 18:54:58 SpeedEvil: g'nite Feb 28 18:55:21 I have one I'd gladly send to someone who needs it, as opposed to throwing it away Feb 28 18:58:06 try the sales forum on tmo? Feb 28 19:02:41 Lynoure, is it the same as the N900's? :p Feb 28 19:02:58 Arif_: not at all Feb 28 19:03:12 aw Feb 28 19:03:26 Arif_: otherwise I would give it to Iridian, who has made his a bit weatherworn. Feb 28 19:03:41 I lost mine :( Feb 28 19:03:47 and I'm not paying €7 for a new one Feb 28 19:03:49 :D Feb 28 19:04:19 oh Feb 28 19:04:24 angry birds is on warez sites Feb 28 19:04:48 any idea why my n900 can see my f12 workstation in avahi browser but not the other way around? Feb 28 19:10:14 Hi, is somebody using a N900? Feb 28 19:10:31 I am Feb 28 19:10:34 kind of Feb 28 19:10:56 isn't this maemo channel? :S Feb 28 19:11:14 grobi: typing from it. Feb 28 19:11:56 When I am running Debian the (full) battery last for 1 1/2 hour. - Normal? Feb 28 19:11:59 more like going to abuse it ;-P Feb 28 19:12:19 grobi: probably Feb 28 19:12:23 In CHroot of course Feb 28 19:12:41 wao: never heard of N810, N800, and 770? Feb 28 19:13:16 and the famous 770 cluste at garage Feb 28 19:15:35 grobi: must be something preventing the CPU to go to sleep Feb 28 19:16:14 nice how n900 survives sauna humidity Feb 28 19:16:15 luke-jr: well, that was just irony ofc Feb 28 19:16:40 you are serious grobi ? Feb 28 19:16:45 pupnik, however, not guaranteed it'll last for long period after that?-) Feb 28 19:25:39 how do i change the font/background colors in modest? (I would like white text on black background) Feb 28 19:28:25 that is hard to find support for Feb 28 19:29:46 pupnik: what? fix it for me now! Feb 28 19:30:55 i like dark backgrounds too. but n900 goes outside too often for that Feb 28 19:31:46 try forcing dark colors on desktop firefox someday. some elements still insist on black text on blackbg Feb 28 19:36:01 great - modest stores my imap passwords in plain text in its conf files Feb 28 19:38:11 maher: most email clients and web browsers do either that, or very poor encryption Feb 28 19:41:23 aww adobe flash dosen't see the cameras Feb 28 19:42:25 pupnik, hey I did just that Feb 28 19:42:39 pupnik, then I wrote a greasemonkey script to set the background color of pages white.. Feb 28 19:42:47 (when I find buggy pages) Feb 28 19:44:50 flux, you have a greasemonkey script that can force my firefox text to light color? Feb 28 19:45:10 should be famous Feb 28 19:45:40 pupnik, nope, it touches only the background, so it's still sometimes hard to see pages ;) Feb 28 19:46:39 when developing applications for maemo and nokia n900, do I have to consider screen size much, or will the framework adjust it to fit a small size automatically? Feb 28 19:49:19 if you develop for n900 specifically why wouldnt you optimize to 800x480 Feb 28 19:50:10 jo-erlend: you've to have in mind that you can't fit a lot of things on the screen. Feb 28 19:50:32 jo-erlend, screen size is less of an issue than aspect ratio Feb 28 19:51:07 its easier to make a layout that works at 320*240 upto 800*480 and above but extremely difficult to use that same layout at 480*800 Feb 28 19:53:17 next Summit discussion in #meego BTW... Feb 28 19:54:26 lcuk, oh, ok. Then I want to create one GUI for lanscape and another for portrait? Feb 28 19:54:44 pretty quiet lcuk Feb 28 20:05:10 anyone knows where can I find HAM category icons? Feb 28 20:09:23 hi everybody , Feb 28 20:09:23 annoying network lag (on SSH) while wifi is on it`s default power-saving mode. downloads also never seems to start in this mode. only after switching to more relaxed option, or disabling power-saving ,things goes fine. is it expected behaviour ?! Feb 28 20:09:46 damn weather made my router reboot 4 times Feb 28 20:09:56 strcpy: some routers are annoying Feb 28 20:10:14 strcpy: I get normal behaviour with only 200ms or so worst-case lag. Feb 28 20:10:21 strcpy: with powersave enabled Feb 28 20:11:03 SpeedEvil: thanks for comments. so you confirm non-rfc compliance implementation in routers too ? Feb 28 20:11:34 strcpy: ? Feb 28 20:11:46 strcpy: what do you mean non-rfc? Feb 28 20:11:49 There are several. Feb 28 20:12:37 talking with some others, they had the same guess ( based on their router working fine) that it`s cus of bad implementation of wifi standards in some routers... Feb 28 20:12:49 mine is U.S.robotics Feb 28 20:13:25 Older routers tend not to implement teh powersaving stuff. Feb 28 20:13:31 SpeedEvil: there are some standards (documented in RFCs)on how to design a wifi-router for example . Feb 28 20:13:38 For various reasons up to and including that it wasn't made. Feb 28 20:13:47 not RFCs Feb 28 20:13:58 it's an add-on to the wlan standard basically Feb 28 20:14:42 I didn`t knew about it being kind of add-on :) Feb 28 20:15:01 though it`s something every vendor should have Feb 28 20:15:05 yes. Feb 28 20:15:13 But the standard was created relatively recently. Feb 28 20:15:23 And there are routers that are in service that are older than this. Feb 28 20:16:16 if you increase the beacon interval on the router it may make powersavings play better Feb 28 20:16:21 test Feb 28 20:16:25 (well ap) Feb 28 20:16:39 asj_: I`ll give it a try Feb 28 20:17:28 anyone knows where can I find HAM category icons? Feb 28 20:18:29 asj_: any recommendation on how much to reduce intervals ? like by 50% ? Feb 28 20:19:57 it's just a guess, but the 802.11 radio in the n900 is going to power down and only listen for beacons (every 100ms) which contains or is followed by data telling stations if there are any wiating packets for them. If you reduce this it should reduce the lag as well, assuming the n900 wakes up for each beacon. Feb 28 20:20:27 reducing beacons really made some improvements on this issue :) good idea Feb 28 20:20:49 good! :) Feb 28 20:21:01 it'll use more power though, that's the downside Feb 28 20:21:14 default was 1000 , 500 seems fine . how ever I should pick more strict number with try & error Feb 28 20:21:25 lot`s of beacons in the air... Feb 28 20:21:43 1000ms? or 1000 beacons/sec? Feb 28 20:21:53 normal beacon interval is 100ms, or 10/second Feb 28 20:22:03 it`s mentioned as "interval" in router Feb 28 20:22:05 oh yay .. bricked the device again :/ .. the 'kernel-flasher-maemo' package just udapted broke it Feb 28 20:22:24 both means same thing :) Feb 28 20:22:30 strcpy: I would set the interval to 100ms Feb 28 20:22:43 must be 1000ms Feb 28 20:22:52 1000ps is crazy ! Feb 28 20:23:05 most devices expect 100ms, 1000ms is 1 second Feb 28 20:24:28 now it only should be tested to find which case use less power : #switching p.saving to medium , or reducing beacons on router ... Feb 28 20:24:35 bricked == turned into a paper weight, unrecoverable by except perhaps at the factory (or via jtag). Since when has it come to mean OTA upgrade failed? Feb 28 20:25:09 anyone knows where can I find HAM category icons? {asking every 5 minutes :P } Feb 28 20:25:41 Aranel: if anybody knows, you`d probably get some answers Feb 28 20:25:43 Aranel: /etc/hildon/theme/backgrounds/ Feb 28 20:25:44 no need to repeat Feb 28 20:26:31 Aranel: Check Catorise source for exact details Feb 28 20:27:22 thanks Jaffa =) Feb 28 20:27:42 sorry strcpy, but sometimes repeating it twice helps =) Feb 28 20:27:50 :) Feb 28 20:28:09 :) Feb 28 20:28:57 Aranel: specifically, /etc/hildon/theme/backgrounds/app_install_*.png Feb 28 20:29:31 * Jaffa realised he has Catorise installed, and is on his N900 so could just, y'know, check. Feb 28 20:29:52 ^^ do you know if they're licensed strictly or not? Feb 28 20:30:09 I'm thinking of using them on another Maemo-related project. Feb 28 20:38:34 hmm Feb 28 20:39:16 is there any time registration app for n900 Feb 28 20:39:32 I basically only want to know how many hours per week I work for a project Feb 28 20:39:40 so very basic app would be enough! Feb 28 20:40:04 find a linux app or write own Feb 28 20:40:37 pupnik_: honestly I dont even know a linux app for time registrations, do you know one? Feb 28 20:41:07 mhm Feb 28 20:41:22 i only tracked with lotus notes Feb 28 20:41:24 obviously the answer is.. emacs! Feb 28 20:41:24 ;) Feb 28 20:41:33 there was an idea of using wtmp for that Feb 28 20:41:37 Markus23, there's gtimelog with a very unresponsive upstream maintainer (yours truly), but it was never ported to Maemo Feb 28 20:41:45 shouldn't be too difficult -- it's all Python and PyGtk Feb 28 20:41:45 I thought I saw such a tool for n900, actually, but I can't seem to find it so perhaps it doesn't exist. Feb 28 20:41:52 so that I login with a specific user when the work begins, and log out when it ends Feb 28 20:41:57 mgedmin: ++ Feb 28 20:42:17 flux: would help me a lot Feb 28 20:42:29 the time registration would begin tomorrow, so no time for porting :-) Feb 28 20:42:55 use a spreatsheet app via vnc from your workstation? .. Feb 28 20:43:44 * mgedmin googles Feb 28 20:43:45 mgedmin, \@ port gtimelog to allow irc logging Feb 28 20:43:47 does anyone know where modest hides its font color settings? Feb 28 20:43:55 Markus23, does http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35474 have any suggestions? Feb 28 20:44:31 * mgedmin reads Feb 28 20:44:33 not really Feb 28 20:45:43 heh, gtimelog runs without any modifications Feb 28 20:46:02 doesn't even look too bad Feb 28 20:47:03 if you've got extras-devel you can try it out: sudo apt-get install python-glade2 bzr; bzr get lp:gtimelog; cd gtimelog; python gtimelog Feb 28 20:47:54 pff, read catorize is autosorting to HAM categories, so I decided for MyMenu. Alas this one as well doesn't allow me to config the submenus and apps therein according to my needs :-/ Feb 28 20:48:00 mgedmin: is gtimelog available in repositories? Feb 28 20:48:28 Markus23, no Feb 28 20:48:35 so the debian package there works? Feb 28 20:48:53 no debian package, I checked out the upstream version from bazaar Feb 28 20:49:03 ok Feb 28 20:49:05 check out the screenshots/description at http://mg.pov.lt/gtimelog/ Feb 28 20:49:16 if the principle of the thing seems right for you, I can try to build a Maemo package tonight Feb 28 20:52:17 so how good is the n900's gps. i can't seem to get a signal Feb 28 20:52:23 ? Feb 28 20:52:36 trip0, pretty good if you've got a SIM card, pretty awful if you don't Feb 28 20:52:50 ahh, i don't have a sim card Feb 28 20:52:57 hmm, why does it need one i wonder? Feb 28 20:53:13 assisted GPS is faster Feb 28 20:53:31 it can download ephemeris and almanac over 3G instead of trickling them from the satellites at 1.5 Kbit/s Feb 28 20:53:37 AGPS == cell tower trianglation? Feb 28 20:53:42 also, I believe it uses cell tower info Feb 28 20:53:52 no, AGPS is different Feb 28 20:54:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGPS Feb 28 20:54:20 actually, maybe cell tower info is a subset of AGPS Feb 28 20:54:26 these terms are confusing Feb 28 20:54:27 mgedmin: yeah, prinziple is perfect Feb 28 20:54:40 but I could also install it in easy debian Feb 28 20:54:47 but package would be cool :-) Feb 28 20:54:55 anyway, there's a user interface bug: the GPS may need 5-6 minutes to acquire a fix, but the software times out sooner and disables the GPS, resetting the process back to zero Feb 28 20:55:07 trip0, to get the initial fix, launch ovi maps and keep the screen from blanking Feb 28 20:55:17 after that it should get subsequent fix's faster, maybe Feb 28 20:55:23 ahhk Feb 28 20:55:28 actually, it may have been fixed in latter firmwares, I wasn't keeping track Feb 28 20:55:42 Markus23, there's a package in debian/ubuntu Feb 28 20:56:08 agps fixed in firmware? Feb 28 20:56:08 I can port it quickly, it won't be hildonized Feb 28 20:56:23 trip0, no, timeouts increased to 3 minutes Feb 28 20:56:35 ahhk Feb 28 20:56:38 bug 5337 Feb 28 20:56:39 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 Ovi Maps gives up finding GPS lock too soon Feb 28 20:56:46 mgedmin: debian package does not install to /opt... Feb 28 20:56:47 i probably need to flash to get firmware updates? Feb 28 20:56:54 or bug 7026 or bug 2878 Feb 28 20:56:55 or can i do an over the air "maemo" update? Feb 28 20:56:57 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026 Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view Feb 28 20:56:58 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2878 Very poor satellite acquisition with internal GPS Feb 28 20:57:09 Markus23, pymaemo-optify takes care of that transparently Feb 28 20:57:15 trip0: only difference between agps and gps is that agps have capability to get ephemeris from internet Feb 28 20:57:20 trip0, you should be able to get FW updates over the air Feb 28 20:57:24 use maep or maemo mapper then gps works pretty well Feb 28 20:57:36 trip0: while normal not assisted gps has to get them from sattelite Feb 28 20:57:41 trip0: which requires better signal Feb 28 20:58:41 some gpses can get that data of internet offline Feb 28 20:58:46 like tomtom Feb 28 20:58:55 where you download data for next week from internet Feb 28 20:59:20 and store it in internal memory of device Feb 28 21:00:03 has anybody seen a "how to hildonize a PyGtk app" tutorial recently? Feb 28 21:07:00 I believe the gps thing is 100% server issue. If you use gps jinni you'll see that it takes tooooo much time to fetch the list of satellites. Unfortunately, it seems that until it gets the list of satelites from the internet, it will not use the gps signal. So you either disable AGPS or change the server to google's Feb 28 21:08:03 meaning: change "location server" to supl.google.com Feb 28 21:08:16 or disable "network positioning" Feb 28 21:11:06 Hi, I'm developing a small application using pygame for the N900 and I'm wondering about whether or not I need to disable compositing manually. I've come across a flag which needs to be set for OpenGL ES apps, but nothing about SDL or python. Feb 28 21:11:25 bnhw, did you just try it? Feb 28 21:11:29 with and without Feb 28 21:11:55 I'm not sure how to disable it in python. Feb 28 21:13:42 does it run well in python without messing? Feb 28 21:13:50 No, it doesn't. Feb 28 21:14:18 Hang on, I might have found something about using Xatom Feb 28 21:15:59 * mgedmin gets bogged down in Debian packaging Feb 28 21:16:16 is PySide stable and does it have good documentation available? I'd like to start writing applications for maemo, n900 and similar devices. PySide seems like the best place to start? Feb 28 21:16:30 Anyone knows if mplayer in Extras is optified? Feb 28 21:16:57 that would be a nice addition to maemo.org/packages Feb 28 21:17:16 list all files (and sizes) in the debs, assign to filesystems, sum, present to the user Feb 28 21:17:40 DocScrutinizer: notes - http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic Feb 28 21:18:07 RST38h, yes it's optified Feb 28 21:18:24 coooool =) Feb 28 21:18:25 * mgedmin cries Feb 28 21:20:44 * pronto patpat mgedmin on the head Feb 28 21:20:49 why is Python packaging soo hard? Feb 28 21:21:49 Because you are supposed to program in a real language! Feb 28 21:22:02 * RST38h explodes in diabolic laughter Feb 28 21:24:25 * mgedmin targets an ICMB to RST38h's location Feb 28 21:24:40 * MohammadAG attaches a nuclear warhead to it Feb 28 21:24:57 Surely you attach nucular warheads to ICMBs? Feb 28 21:25:14 * mgedmin is feeling dyslexic today Feb 28 21:25:33 careful when typing coordinates. Feb 28 21:26:21 gah, I don't even remember that I finally gave a version number to gtimelog Feb 28 21:26:23 .. back to ext3 from ext4 ... the external kernel is too much pita Feb 28 21:26:28 * MohammadAG googles ICMB Feb 28 21:26:34 * mgedmin was calling his package version 0.0+svn88+bzr145 Feb 28 21:26:36 SpeedEvil, yeah, why not? :P Feb 28 21:27:50 cehteh: :-/ Feb 28 21:28:32 ICBMs. Feb 28 21:28:40 http://code.google.com/p/wtfgame/ anyone want to port this to maemo? =P Feb 28 21:28:45 should be pretty easy Feb 28 21:28:46 DocScrutinizer: ext3 is actually good enough .. while ext4 was quite much better... i now see that while rsyncing data gain Feb 28 21:28:55 i got the linux build workin Feb 28 21:29:02 ext4 was double as fast Feb 28 21:29:05 RST38h, which os do those icbms use? Feb 28 21:29:42 actually i should be asking mgedmin Feb 28 21:30:53 you'd better tell me where to install .desktop files Feb 28 21:30:56 /usr/share/something/something Feb 28 21:33:00 lcuk: No idea Feb 28 21:33:15 mgedmin, /usr/share/applications/hildon/*.desktop Feb 28 21:33:37 lcuk: Whatever little idea I have, is probably unsafe to disclose here anyway. Feb 28 21:33:47 just send a link to wikidot Feb 28 21:33:49 :D Feb 28 21:36:17 so, what magic am I missing in my .desktop...? the app menu doesn't show my icon Feb 28 21:36:33 not that I have an icon, actually, hm Feb 28 21:37:16 and closing the window doesn't exit the app Feb 28 21:37:19 something about wmclass? Feb 28 21:40:10 where should I put my 48x48 icon? Feb 28 21:40:33 control? Feb 28 21:40:38 on the filesystem Feb 28 21:40:49 gpodder ships four files called gpodder.png Feb 28 21:41:46 do I need to scale the icon down to 40x40? Feb 28 21:43:42 both problems not solved : Feb 28 21:44:01 oh, hey, I'm not shipping the desktop and icon at all Feb 28 21:46:59 debhelper! cdbs! curse you all! Feb 28 21:47:07 rpm ftw! Feb 28 21:47:07 :P Feb 28 21:49:06 pkg_add. Feb 28 21:49:33 Why use puny attempts at imitating pkg_add, when you can use the real thing/ Feb 28 21:50:17 okay, I give up Feb 28 21:50:21 no gtimelog for maemo Feb 28 21:50:27 i wish the pandora guys were part of our sphere Feb 28 21:53:17 my phone appears to be bricked and I just wanted to check that no-one else knows how to fix this problem before sending it back to Nokia. The phone has many strange issues (like not wanting to charge) so I wanted to reflash the firmware. When I restart the phone by plugging in the USB cable, the usb doesn't come up as on normal phones, and I can't connect to it with the flasher utility. I have successfully reflashed other phones, and it appears to me that Feb 28 21:53:18 the phone can't go into a firmware update mode. Has anyone seen the problem before? Feb 28 21:54:30 did you turn it off before connecting? Feb 28 21:54:54 ~flashing Feb 28 21:54:55 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 28 21:55:00 Ilamuser_: check that page Feb 28 21:55:16 if it doesn't want to charge, USB port may be broken Feb 28 21:56:44 pupnik: yes I did turn it off. Feb 28 21:58:22 Stskeeps: I have used the instructions on that page before, but it relies on geting to a firmware-update mode which my phone won't do. Feb 28 21:59:30 Ilamuser_: what exactly does it do when you turn it on? Feb 28 21:59:49 Ilamuser_: did you remove the battery and then charge it? Feb 28 21:59:53 Ilamuser_: is it a N900? Feb 28 21:59:55 my best guess is that either the firmware is corrupted, or the USB charging-hardware is damaged. A major symptom is that the phone wasn't always charging normally Feb 28 22:00:13 Stskeeps: yes it is a N900 Feb 28 22:00:39 Ilamuser_: seems more like the usb port to me :/ Feb 28 22:01:56 cehteh: when you turn it on normally it will boot to the desktop. When you turn it off and insert a usb cable it will turn on, not progress to booting, but not show a usb icon. The white-led flashes twice and then a green led flashes then it reboots and repeats. Feb 28 22:02:25 thats strange Feb 28 22:03:48 lan: yes the battery was fully charged in another phone before attempting anything. i also tried turning off the phone, removing the battery, inserting the usb-cable, and then reinserting the battery. Apparently this can help in some cases but it didn't fix the problem. Feb 28 22:05:11 what does flasher say after inserting cable and powering on? Feb 28 22:06:34 It just keeps waiting indefinitely for a usb device. Feb 28 22:07:04 64-bit windows? Feb 28 22:08:35 I'm running 32-bit linux. Feb 28 22:10:04 sudo flasher-3.5? mine works with "plug in usb both sides, plug in battery" Feb 28 22:10:12 and flashing starts after that Feb 28 22:11:19 Yes. It looks like I'll have to send it back to nokia for repair. Feb 28 22:11:51 :nod: Feb 28 22:12:33 I am a sad panda [:{]. Thanks for the help. Feb 28 22:14:25 DocScrutinizer: ext3 is much slower, but at least the space benefit remains Feb 28 22:15:40 and did you move /usr or/and /var now? Feb 28 22:16:00 no just MyDocs Feb 28 22:16:34 worked with ext4 like a charm until this evening when there was a kernel update which broke it :P Feb 28 22:16:48 :-S Feb 28 22:16:58 people how does your n900 battery last? on normal usage mine averages 8hours - wifi is off but i have 3G data connection on....is this normal? i have the latest firmware Feb 28 22:17:08 i think i stay with standard kernel .. Feb 28 22:17:37 Ian--: that's normal Feb 28 22:17:41 lan--: depends quite much on the usage and config .. but that looks ok Feb 28 22:17:49 3G is a power hog Feb 28 22:18:00 put it in gsm mode if you can do Feb 28 22:18:21 well i could but then some sites take longer to load Feb 28 22:18:23 means no data / voice in parallel .. and only low bandwidth Feb 28 22:18:29 yeah Feb 28 22:18:48 otherwise put it in 3G mode but not in dual mode .. switching costs extra Feb 28 22:19:16 but if you only want it always on for irc and email then gsm is the best bet Feb 28 22:19:17 those friggin schematics.pdf was fine on evince on my desktop. N900 says "need password" - wtf? Feb 28 22:19:27 lol Feb 28 22:19:44 ye i noticed that dual takes more Feb 28 22:21:58 cehteh: Ian--: switching is happening rarely and shouldn't take any noticeable percentage of a upstream connection Feb 28 22:22:22 DocScrutinizer: here at my home it switches quite much Feb 28 22:22:48 ye i'm in the same situation DocScrutinizer one room it's 2g another it's 3 Feb 28 22:23:04 and others reported that too that switching costs a lot of power ... prolly because of additional cpu and handshakes with the cell tower Feb 28 22:23:34 the most important thing is to keep upstream data volume low, and by all means bundle pacets to more seldomly sending larger bunches of data Feb 28 22:24:02 the 2g/3g mode selection applet is nice Feb 28 22:24:24 cehteh: if it handshakes each time then frequent switching of course eats bat Feb 28 22:24:36 pupnik_: yep Feb 28 22:24:57 looks to me like it handshakes every switch between 2g/3g Feb 28 22:25:00 cebit expo has some kind of opensource theme. anyone know if theres any maemo activities? Feb 28 22:25:44 also be aware TCP makes an ACK go upstream for each received packet Feb 28 22:27:12 DocScrutinizer: not entirely accurate - the window opens up Feb 28 22:27:46 fnordianslip: sorry? Feb 28 22:28:02 the TCP window gets bigger, so each packet doesn't need acking Feb 28 22:28:45 cant immediately find a bugreport on this and still looking into the exact circumstances more, but is anyone aware of a bug where trying to play an unsupported video file in the media player produces an error as normal, but then playing one that is supported afterwards just doesnt play, until the device is rebooted? Feb 28 22:28:45 hm ok Feb 28 22:29:26 nid0: i've seen that issue. not sure if there is a bug reported though Feb 28 22:30:45 nid0: I've heard of that happening before. I have no detaisl Feb 28 22:30:52 w00p Feb 28 22:31:05 ill put together proper details on the codecs used and stick up a bug report then Feb 28 22:31:33 nid0, for such a thing, if possible find an example video Feb 28 22:31:46 it always helps if something becomes routinely reproducable Feb 28 22:32:04 lol i love that burgerface app/game :D Feb 28 22:32:06 yeah ill have to encode some others, the actual videos causing it are full length movies - I can easily encode some much smaller files with the same codecs tho Feb 28 22:32:08 what great idea :) Feb 28 22:32:40 Is mbarcode coring for others recently? Feb 28 22:33:24 nid0 ping Feb 28 22:33:31 .. so ext3: Feb 28 22:33:38 im here Feb 28 22:33:39 .. vs fat Feb 28 22:33:42 4820384 /media/mmc1/MyDocs Feb 28 22:33:42 2099212 /home/user/MyDocs Feb 28 22:33:57 nid0: all those: http://www.v13.gr/files/videos/kde4-1/ used to make media-player stuck with PR1.0 Feb 28 22:33:58 if you want to save half of the space, use ext3 Feb 28 22:34:06 fat doesn't do holes Feb 28 22:34:09 if you want double speed, use ext4 Feb 28 22:34:11 I haven't tried them with PR1.1 Feb 28 22:34:18 SpeedEvil: (bork vid play) shouldn't restart of some fsckng daemon suffice? rather than reboot Feb 28 22:34:31 hm.. not with P1.0 but with the original fw... Haven't tried with PR1.0 either, but it should be the same Feb 28 22:34:31 SpeedEvil: yeah prolly and some other things Feb 28 22:35:33 any idea on the codecs used? the file that causes the "invalid codec" error is an h.264 mp4, fair enough that the media player cant play it, but it then bombs out on an avi encoded with divx - the file loads, but then just sits at 0:00 doing nothing, pressing play again causes the little dots to go back and forward then return to the first blank frame not moving Feb 28 22:35:38 how to spot sparse files? Feb 28 22:35:46 then restarting the device lets the divx avi play fine Feb 28 22:36:07 nid0: confirmed here Feb 28 22:36:31 im just getting some small videos encoded with the same formats and ill put up a bugreporty Feb 28 22:36:34 -y* Feb 28 22:36:36 DocScrutinizer: without a decent 'du' not easy on the n900 :) Feb 28 22:36:38 nid0: yes.. that was the case with all those files too. Feb 28 22:36:52 did a bugreport exist for that do you know? Feb 28 22:37:03 i've had a quick look but its a rather vague problem to track down in bugzilla Feb 28 22:37:16 i believe that i've seen that somewhere.. not sure Feb 28 22:37:36 cehteh: I,d guess there are other ways than du to tell if a file is sparse Feb 28 22:38:00 e.g this: ? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5949 Feb 28 22:38:00 Bug 5949: H264 ipod 16:9 video doesn't playback on N900 maemo media player Feb 28 22:38:15 cehteh: decent find e.g.? Feb 28 22:38:30 hehe .. Feb 28 22:38:46 ah he's mentioned the issue as "Once you try to playback a file on the meamo player that fails, you need to Feb 28 22:38:46 reboot the phone in order to get *any* video file to playback again. Writing Feb 28 22:38:47 that up as a separate bug. Feb 28 22:38:48 " Feb 28 22:38:53 oops, spam sorry Feb 28 22:38:55 apt-get install findutils Feb 28 22:39:25 that's bug 5948 ? Feb 28 22:39:27 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5948 N900 needs to be rebooted if media player fails to play video (h264dec) Feb 28 22:39:31 and they closed it as worksforme - ill open another one with example videos Feb 28 22:40:09 nid0: reopen the old ticket! Feb 28 22:40:18 5948 is closed as fixed Feb 28 22:40:26 yes find should be able to do that Feb 28 22:40:51 V13: so what. can't you reopen? Feb 28 22:41:03 it links back quite a way Feb 28 22:41:14 5948 is closed as fixed due to 6823 Feb 28 22:41:23 which lists it being fixed in an internal build Feb 28 22:41:25 I haven't test that with PR1.1 so.. no.. I won't reopen it. If nid0 does the test he can reopen it. Feb 28 22:41:28 so hopefully 1.2 \o/ Feb 28 22:41:52 right Feb 28 22:43:33 I thought 'fixed' tickets should get haspatch+testing, until eventually community reports a real fix Feb 28 22:43:44 that 6823 bug is rather vague, but 5948 is exactly what i'm seeing specific to h.264 profiles failing to play and has been linked as fixed due to the fix in 6823 Feb 28 22:44:20 no way a ticket should be closed because of an unreleased internal fw version seen some patches Feb 28 22:44:46 sorry bad wording, they arent closed but resolved Feb 28 22:45:45 resolved!=testing , no? Feb 28 22:45:50 though yeah frankly they could do with a qa category or similar and only actually mark bugs as resolved+fixed once the update fixing it is made public Feb 28 22:46:12 rather than setting them as resolved while it's still internal only, then closing it after it's public and tested Feb 28 22:48:24 Is there any way to use handsfree what is coming on N900 box to change current track to next? Feb 28 22:50:57 err?? Feb 28 22:51:24 iPeter-: no. the n900 doesn't support changing tracks via standard headphones Feb 28 22:51:52 iPeter-: bluetooth ones work, provided they support avrcp Feb 28 22:52:03 arachnist: ? Feb 28 22:52:09 jacekowski: ? Feb 28 22:52:17 arachnist: nvm Feb 28 22:52:28 arachnist: it's you!!! Feb 28 22:52:38 well, yes. it's me Feb 28 22:52:53 * satmd checks the barcode on the neck Feb 28 22:52:58 yes yes he is Feb 28 22:53:00 :p Feb 28 22:54:21 where is the /tmp folder for the n900 browser youtubes? Feb 28 22:54:28 well, I think that's kinda bug mediaplayer doesn't support at least pause/play via wired hp-button Feb 28 22:54:39 arachnist: Okay, thanks. Getting annyoed to grab my phone from poket if there comes crap music :/ Feb 28 22:55:00 iPeter-: well, don't put crap music on your device Feb 28 22:55:11 hm... remapping the volume buttons... an option? Feb 28 22:55:24 dunno, maybe. Feb 28 22:55:47 Damn. newest ovisuite wont work with the N900. On the Nokia's page it is listed as supported device. Feb 28 22:57:31 satmd: Is it possible to remap it so they work only when plugged handfree? Feb 28 22:57:50 * DocScrutinizer51 installs evince. Mumbes "password protected... PFFF" Feb 28 22:57:50 arachnist: i knew it sounds kinda familiar Feb 28 22:57:53 uhm, I can't tell, I just came up with that idea Feb 28 22:58:48 hm, maybe that would be interesting to the person maintaining headphoned Feb 28 22:59:20 btw. have anybody managed to use fmtx as handsfree? Feb 28 22:59:32 iPeter-: I don't think remapping ov volume(!)keys for skip fwd/back is a good idea - for a mediaplayer Feb 28 23:01:14 hm.. http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/ Feb 28 23:02:50 best you can get is play/pause with short press of hs-holdbutton. And any other function (skip to next?) for long press Feb 28 23:03:00 DocScrutinizer51: Well, i dont use em when headphoned so.. why wouldnt it be. Still its not so good idea, i got a leather case, so pressing those buttons is kinda hard. Feb 28 23:03:39 DocScrutinizer51: Yeah, that would be good but there aint any plugin for it? Feb 28 23:03:54 sorry can,t follow. please rephrase Feb 28 23:05:40 It would be good to have skip to next track from handsfree of hs-holdbutton. Feb 28 23:05:59 anyway for holdbutton to work you need micbias voltage enabled. Means you probably need alsa/gstreamer/whatever to open the hs-mic Feb 28 23:06:50 mayb mediaplayer even would support it if only micbias would be enabled Feb 28 23:07:40 bah, anyone knows where the list of autojoin channels is in x-chat? Feb 28 23:07:50 for a week I nearly forgot about the entire meego thingie Feb 28 23:07:52 * DocScrutinizer51 makes a mental postit note to check recorder with holdbutton Feb 28 23:08:20 javispedro: in network Feb 28 23:08:59 makes sense :( Feb 28 23:09:01 servlist_.conf:J=#Maemo,##electronics,#nethack-offtopic,#highaltitu Feb 28 23:09:03 DocScrutinizer: thanks. Feb 28 23:09:10 also Feb 28 23:10:59 menu xchat network list edit then connecting (2) Feb 28 23:11:29 yes, my brain needed to be remembered that it's a per-network setting. Feb 28 23:11:41 s/remembered/reminded Feb 28 23:13:45 nite all, sweet dreams Feb 28 23:16:03 cu trem Feb 28 23:26:52 * dracflamloc yawns Feb 28 23:28:36 Stskeeps: SpeedEvil: seen the batgauge N1130? Feb 28 23:29:47 seems there's no reason the batcharge guestimeater is doing such a crappy job Feb 28 23:41:20 It looks like mail for exchange or the other built in mail client don't actually 'ask' for connections Feb 28 23:41:33 if not connected to edge or wifi, they just don't get mail Feb 28 23:47:13 djkrikke: either N900 is connected to a network, or it's not. You can't expect mailer app to crank up a connection on it's own guess whenevr it thinks it needs Feb 28 23:48:04 why not? Feb 28 23:49:33 i want a good T.O.M.E roguelike on tablets Feb 28 23:49:45 but the gfx needs redoing Feb 28 23:49:58 Do I need to specify _HILDON_NON_COMPOSITED_WINDOW for SDL windows? Feb 28 23:50:03 no Feb 28 23:50:05 got about 300 hours invested into that Feb 28 23:51:06 javispedro: I assume that applies to pygame too? Feb 28 23:51:13 bnhw: yes Feb 28 23:51:26 djkrikke: either N900 is connected to a network, or it's not. You can't expect mailer app to crank up a connection on it's own guess whenevr it thinks it needs Feb 28 23:51:50 Right, okay, thanks. I might need to rethink the application then; I'm only getting a few fps. Feb 28 23:52:21 you should fullscreen it the proper way, btw. Feb 28 23:52:32 if it's using the sdl fullscreening calls it's all OK. Feb 28 23:52:48 since those were patched in maemo sdl. Feb 28 23:53:05 DocScrutinizer, on my previous devices it did Feb 28 23:53:38 the e71 just disconnects from edge when there's no activity, and checks mail each 30 minutes by connecting Feb 28 23:53:45 that's a huge advantage for battery life Feb 28 23:53:55 not sure about that. Feb 28 23:54:00 djkrikke: nonsense Feb 28 23:54:20 ok, why is that nonsense? Feb 28 23:54:21 javispedro: Yeah, I'm going fullscreen the SDL-way. It's more likely to be all these floating-point calcs. Feb 28 23:54:21 windows mobile does the same thing Feb 28 23:54:23 connectiing itself .. as in handshaking needs more power than a idle connection Feb 28 23:54:29 there's no such disconnect from GPRS the way you suggest Feb 28 23:54:46 bnhw: yes, python was compiled with thumb and no vfp at all (on diablo at least, I never checked fremantle build options) Feb 28 23:54:58 bnhw: as you can guess that sucks for fp Feb 28 23:55:19 (but check if that still keeps true for fremantle, though) Feb 28 23:55:40 Hmm, so an always connected gprs/wifi is better then checking each 30 minutes? Feb 28 23:55:50 always connected wifi -- sure. Feb 28 23:55:52 dunno about gprs. Feb 28 23:56:23 djkrikke: yes Feb 28 23:56:58 that's interesting Feb 28 23:57:11 always connected wifi will = faster battery drain, disabling it either manually (wifi switcher in -testing) or automatically (autodisconnect in -devel) when not in use will give you battery improvements Feb 28 23:57:38 not if you're going to wake the thing every 30 minutes. Feb 28 23:58:49 well wifi switcher wont let even you poll automatically at least, but manually reenabling wifi whenever it's needed, even frequently, still gives me a massive power saving Feb 28 23:59:39 with my current beacon period and dtim settings, it's been 48h with wi-fi and still 60% battery on the N900. I hope I can beat the 1 week mark the N810 had :D Feb 28 23:59:51 and for GPRS it's even "send a pop every 30min" vs "send login auth DHCP etc, then send POP3 every 30" Feb 28 23:59:57 what is your beacon and dtim configuration javispedro? Mar 01 00:00:11 testing with the usual 100ms, but DTIM=5 Mar 01 00:00:17 i only just top 48h even with wifi disabled fully 95% of the time :< Mar 01 00:00:32 Ive got the same problem nid0 Mar 01 00:00:36 oh wel..."problem" Mar 01 00:01:36 my n900 lasts for a day Mar 01 00:01:40 when i'm at work Mar 01 00:01:48 as there is almost no signal there Mar 01 00:02:16 im in a full signal area with 3g disabled anyway here, and manage about 24 hours with wifi on and idle :p Mar 01 00:02:43 besides, how much skype uses? Mar 01 00:02:54 If I don't touch it anymore mine will get 3 and around 8 hours with wifi (interpolation) Mar 01 00:02:56 because i don't really need it Mar 01 00:02:56 Gonna try the device tomorrow with wifi, but I think that's the same I'll get nid0, based on my experiences this weekend Mar 01 00:03:01 and i could disable it Mar 01 00:03:08 jacekowski, a friend of mine is always online on skype Mar 01 00:03:15 he doesn't notice a drain or something Mar 01 00:03:26 skype is one of the most heavy from the builtin plugins Mar 01 00:03:37 but the heavieast plugins are still any of the non-nokia Mar 01 00:04:12 xmpp is builtin? Mar 01 00:04:16 yep Mar 01 00:04:32 hmm Mar 01 00:04:42 xmpp <-> skype transport Mar 01 00:04:51 with voice? Mar 01 00:04:59 javispedro, you used skype already? Mar 01 00:05:01 for calling Mar 01 00:05:05 yes, I'm using it. Mar 01 00:05:16 even on edge it works really well Mar 01 00:05:21 it does random activity on network Mar 01 00:05:28 thus being heavy on the battery Mar 01 00:05:29 but I lost 20% batt when calling for half an hour Mar 01 00:05:30 jacekowski: then don't use skype.It's a HOG Mar 01 00:05:33 so that's killing :D Mar 01 00:05:43 I always mean idle. Mar 01 00:05:51 I'm depressed with the active usage battery life on the N900. Mar 01 00:05:56 it just doesn't cut it. Mar 01 00:06:08 but idle seems to be fine. Mar 01 00:06:10 it's too much technology javispedro Mar 01 00:06:20 and too bad batteries Mar 01 00:06:22 and a smaller battery. Mar 01 00:06:28 power management sucks a lot Mar 01 00:06:34 I really dont understand the reason for the weedy battery tbh Mar 01 00:06:40 it's not aggresive enough Mar 01 00:06:42 I guess I'm gonna buy a second battery in the future Mar 01 00:06:55 it's just doesn't feel right to remove the back cover each day Mar 01 00:06:59 looks like its going to brake every moment :x Mar 01 00:07:06 the 1500mah battery in my e90 is the same volume as the n900's, and thats a 3 and a half year old design :< Mar 01 00:07:31 nid0: what's a voltage on that battery? Mar 01 00:07:57 3.7v same as the n900 Mar 01 00:07:58 because comparing mAh without knowledge of voltage is useless Mar 01 00:08:11 well, that sucks then Mar 01 00:08:11 jacekowski: please make suggestions how to improve power management Mar 01 00:08:37 DocScrutinizer: i would play with screen backlight settings Mar 01 00:08:49 oh, you can play as you want Mar 01 00:08:49 DocScrutinizer: because most bright one is too bright Mar 01 00:08:56 and second from top is too dark Mar 01 00:09:04 jacekowski: you're free to do that anytime Mar 01 00:09:05 one of my tests was limit cpufreq to 500Mhz, but didn't do much. Mar 01 00:09:16 a session with drnoksnes quickly empties a battery. Mar 01 00:09:29 keep processor at lower frequency Mar 01 00:09:49 and deschedlue apps that are in background Mar 01 00:09:50 that's what I did. Mar 01 00:09:53 javispedro: that's contraproductive Mar 01 00:10:14 DocScrutinizer: not sure. Mar 01 00:10:23 before calling "race to idle" note my usecase. Mar 01 00:10:33 * GAN900 hopes crashanddie is publishing mwkn tomorrow. Mar 01 00:10:50 javispedro, race to idle! Mar 01 00:11:07 :) Mar 01 00:11:28 all the fun things i like to drain faster than the 810 Mar 01 00:11:44 but the speed is nice Mar 01 00:11:59 because it looks like there is a lot of apps that are running in background, using processor cycles Mar 01 00:12:09 while there is no real need for it Mar 01 00:12:12 jacekowski: as I said, idle time is fine. Mar 01 00:12:22 then these are bad programmed Mar 01 00:12:52 jacekowski: we don't want a windows2.0 kind of Monotasking Mar 01 00:13:17 cehteh: exactly Mar 01 00:13:36 and xorg is kinda heavy Mar 01 00:13:39 http://triforce88.webnode.com/ Mar 01 00:13:48 one roge demon can kill a battery fast Mar 01 00:14:03 the app that most appears in my charts when idle is .. skype... and it even does random network activity (p2p on a mobile device, genius!) Mar 01 00:14:07 jacekowski: you bet I want xchat to continue logging this chan, even while I'm checking sth in a xterm Mar 01 00:14:09 well bit better userland support for fuzzy timers and devel educatio wold be nice Mar 01 00:14:11 and when you have severla workign in tandom dam Mar 01 00:14:46 DocScrutinizer: but it could be woken up only when it recieves some data Mar 01 00:14:56 but that's a problem with irc Mar 01 00:14:59 and pings there Mar 01 00:15:14 jacekowski: any sane app works exactly this way Mar 01 00:15:14 jacekowski: xchat does that already well Mar 01 00:15:24 skype is a pig Mar 01 00:15:35 hog Mar 01 00:15:44 will xchat use a lot of battery while being idle? Mar 01 00:15:46 pile o shit Mar 01 00:15:53 djkrikke: no Mar 01 00:15:55 nope Mar 01 00:16:17 i thugnt it did on the dilblo? Mar 01 00:16:18 I had xchat idle on 4 chan for 24h via wlan with one batcharge Mar 01 00:16:39 right, and what else was running on the phone? Mar 01 00:16:46 or was it just xchat Mar 01 00:16:59 djkrikke: talking to me? Mar 01 00:17:07 it did not use much battery on diablo Mar 01 00:17:11 i would have to compare idle idle battery usage vs normal usage idle Mar 01 00:17:12 DocScrutinizer: yes Mar 01 00:17:17 i have xchat on 4 networks and 30 chans or so and barely notice it Mar 01 00:17:19 the first versions were awfull on fremantle. Mar 01 00:17:41 of course recent xchat got some tweaks .. any you dont want to enable lag'o'meters and other crap Mar 01 00:17:41 well, i run my irssi on screen on my server Mar 01 00:17:47 01:17:47 up 409 days, 20:53, 2 users, load average: 0.46, 0.66, 0.64 Mar 01 00:17:57 djkrikke: well I had a short visit to youtube during that 24h. And some 10h of dim backlight and actively chatting in xchat Mar 01 00:17:58 and just get notifications via jabber when somebody highlights me Mar 01 00:18:26 DocScrutinizer: I see Mar 01 00:18:32 but gotta go, it's getting late Mar 01 00:18:33 #nethack has 260 users.... Mar 01 00:18:35 bye Mar 01 00:18:52 just wondering if using on screen keyboard instead of hardware one ( keyboard backlight ) would help Mar 01 00:18:58 djkrikke: and of course mailer fetched every 10 minutes Mar 01 00:19:00 ... i restored a backup (apllication list) but decided not to restore some apps Mar 01 00:19:24 now these stick in ham forever waiting to be reinstalled .. how can i purge that list? Mar 01 00:19:32 badly need local subscription settings for imap folders tbh :( Mar 01 00:19:44 use claws Mar 01 00:19:57 modest support for imap is suboptimal Mar 01 00:20:13 modest is suboptimal Mar 01 00:20:17 claws support MfE? Mar 01 00:20:18 bad* Mar 01 00:20:19 i use it, but dont let it poll the mailbox Mar 01 00:20:26 MfE? Mar 01 00:20:32 active sync Mar 01 00:20:33 exchange Mar 01 00:20:36 we talking about imap Mar 01 00:20:51 and i'm asking related question Mar 01 00:21:01 donno Mar 01 00:21:18 from the other side Mar 01 00:21:26 tbh I never cared about exchange Mar 01 00:21:28 i can use MfE only for my contacts and calendar Mar 01 00:21:33 DocScrutinizer: i use zimbra Mar 01 00:22:13 so how can i purge the apps-to-be-restored list? Mar 01 00:22:14 is claws actually available for fremantle? Mar 01 00:22:21 you know it's so er... redmondish Mar 01 00:23:30 i use thunderbird on deshtop Mar 01 00:23:40 nid0: [2010-03-01 01:19:45] use claws Mar 01 00:24:17 * cehteh thinks about a notification plugin like for xchat for claws too :P Mar 01 00:24:20 nid0: guess that implies it's available Mar 01 00:24:38 yes but not hildonized .. bit fiddly to sue Mar 01 00:24:40 use Mar 01 00:24:43 okay ill elaborate on my question... "I cant find claws being available for fremantle, it's not in the repo and only listed on both the claws site and maemo.org as being available for upto os2008 - help?" Mar 01 00:25:19 ill give the os2008 version a crack and see if it's usable even with the interface then, ta Mar 01 00:25:23 *** 3.7.3-1maemo4 0 Mar 01 00:25:23 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages Mar 01 00:25:24 `0660: 11~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mar 01 00:25:33 ups Mar 01 00:26:14 DocScrutinizer: I tried to see if I could find it by googling hte signal names - but nothing. Assuming it's of course present. Mar 01 00:26:28 DocScrutinizer: that is not a final schematic Mar 01 00:26:43 SpeedEvil: err, context? Mar 01 00:26:58 aaah, gaia Mar 01 00:27:30 right? Mar 01 00:27:49 DocScrutinizer: no - the charge chip Mar 01 00:27:52 I guess it's part of the OMAP34xx chipset Mar 01 00:27:58 DocScrutinizer: gaia is the twl4030 Mar 01 00:27:59 ooh the charge chip Mar 01 00:28:09 kk Mar 01 00:28:11 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_management/I2C Mar 01 00:28:11 :-) Mar 01 00:28:16 gaia Mar 01 00:28:58 SpeedEvil: you checked the BQ27xxx et al crap? Mar 01 00:29:14 no Mar 01 00:29:56 I recall finding no references to a charge monitoring chip on going through the bme source Mar 01 00:30:04 just gaia adcs Mar 01 00:32:28 SpeedEvil: chargegauge prolly closed source Mar 01 00:32:52 DocScrutinizer: seen any reference to the test pads? Mar 01 00:33:10 or they left it out completely, due to rushing sw to shipping ? ;-P Mar 01 00:33:28 SpeedEvil: not exactly Mar 01 00:33:31 This is not the final rev. Forex - USB is wrong Mar 01 00:33:52 how is it wrong, how do you tell? Mar 01 00:33:58 A/B? Mar 01 00:34:55 DocScrutinizer: it says a/b Mar 01 00:35:06 yep, noticed that Mar 01 00:35:07 DocScrutinizer: and wires the ID line to gaia. Mar 01 00:35:15 yep Mar 01 00:35:17 DocScrutinizer: also the test pads on the back are wrong Mar 01 00:35:23 errr Mar 01 00:35:29 ok... Mar 01 00:36:03 so why do you think ID isn't wired to gaia Mar 01 00:36:04 Check page 17 against the device back Mar 01 00:36:10 Because there is no ID pin Mar 01 00:36:16 whoever ported "telnet" thx Mar 01 00:36:16 in a microb jack Mar 01 00:36:18 HUH? Mar 01 00:36:23 really?? Mar 01 00:36:27 AIUI Mar 01 00:36:43 * DocScrutinizer graps the big torch Mar 01 00:36:48 and loupe Mar 01 00:37:47 it *clearly* has FIVE pins Mar 01 00:37:51 But look at J2000 on the page 17. With battery on right, it's the bottom left of the four groups of test pads. Mar 01 00:38:07 The diagram has 5 pads, the device 6, and the arrangment differs Mar 01 00:38:25 okok Mar 01 00:38:58 No doubt that's not the final MP schem Mar 01 00:40:12 If only I had a decent flatbed scanner and a top notch camera for macro shots Mar 01 00:40:27 I'd rip the device right away Mar 01 00:40:43 you're still looking for the usb host thing or just exploring ? Mar 01 00:40:55 Also the components round the SD card are wrong Mar 01 00:41:03 V13: both Mar 01 00:41:07 still hoping to get usb hostmode, yes Mar 01 00:41:35 is there *any* reason to believe that usb-host can be achieved? despite what insiders say? Mar 01 00:42:03 yes there is: the "insiders are of poor EE knowledge Mar 01 00:42:13 V13: the reason is basically all the reasons that have been raised why it can't work seem to be flawed. Mar 01 00:42:19 or exactly zero EE knowledge Mar 01 00:42:35 hm.. so you're trying to find *how* it is disabled ? Mar 01 00:42:47 that's easy Mar 01 00:42:52 It's seeming likely at this point that it's not enabled. Mar 01 00:42:56 Rather than disabled. Mar 01 00:42:57 kernel module obviously missing Mar 01 00:43:04 any sync gurus? I had an N95 which I synced against Funambol. Now, I have an N900 and I want to get the data back. I also want to sync against my Evolution on some laptops and a desktop. How do I go about getting this? N900 doesn't support Funambol for sync. Mar 01 00:43:10 i don't think so Mar 01 00:43:12 And with the right software to handle the enabling, it should 'just work'. Mar 01 00:43:41 SpeedEvil: ack Mar 01 00:44:07 that's how I get those non-final schem as well Mar 01 00:44:08 before n90 was released, at that huge usb-otg thread, the first argument was that to get usb certification it needed not to be able to both charge from usb and provide power at the same time because it would be able to use two different cables for the same port, which was not acceptable for certification. Mar 01 00:44:32 do i remember wrong ? Mar 01 00:44:36 well that's not really true Mar 01 00:44:43 That was after launch. Mar 01 00:44:50 because you can provide and draw power Mar 01 00:44:57 but that would require more circuitry inside Mar 01 00:45:02 no no.. Mar 01 00:45:07 that's exactly the type of hearsay you get from those "insiders" Mar 01 00:45:13 they said it already did that. but the disabled it to get the certification Mar 01 00:45:15 i think neo1973 does Mar 01 00:45:26 they said the h/w was capable of doing so Mar 01 00:45:35 V13: I've gone and read the emails in detail - and it doesn't quite say that. Mar 01 00:45:45 * V13 searches Mar 01 00:45:49 jacekowski: wrong, and wrong Mar 01 00:46:09 neo can't supply USB power Mar 01 00:46:26 jacekowski: neo FR does support charging and powered host mode. And it provides hostmode while charging Mar 01 00:46:41 noe1973 can't Mar 01 00:47:02 this one: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/read/8a4b958ca61811dea77bff41b05c66096609/ Mar 01 00:47:05 Available power in host mode is the full maximum of 500mA according to USB-specifications on the Neo FreeRunner, and no power is available in host mode on the Neo 1973. If your USB device respects USB-standards and consumes not more than 500mA, you may connect it directly to your Neo FreeRunner. Mar 01 00:47:23 "One of them being that the certification with A connector can be passed Mar 01 00:47:23 only if full functionality is provided by the SW." Mar 01 00:47:28 well Mar 01 00:47:39 "In this case I propose that complaints are directed to the USB Mar 01 00:47:39 consortium. I have really come to doubt that it's actually protecting Mar 01 00:47:39 the consumers' interests in nowadays scenario." Mar 01 00:47:40 freerunner can provide power Mar 01 00:47:41 jacekowski: why you're quoting me? :-P Mar 01 00:47:52 "Add to that several HW bugs that were discovered during the development Mar 01 00:47:52 and needed workarounds." Mar 01 00:47:54 V13: that can be read as we diddn't put on the A connector Mar 01 00:48:31 * V13 doesn't insist Mar 01 00:48:38 V13: the workarounds mentioned are related to charger detection AIUI, and are not directly related. Mar 01 00:49:28 The basic fundamental is. Mar 01 00:49:48 yeah, USB2.0-carger-supplement is a bitch Mar 01 00:49:52 DocScrutinizer: what i've done to you Mar 01 00:49:55 The USB PHY chip has two wires that go to the USB data port. These are the D+ and D- pins. Mar 01 00:50:14 They support - through internal configuration of the PHY chip - USB host mode and USB device mode. Mar 01 00:50:23 jacekowski: you quoted my statement on Neo FreeRunner hostmode and power :-D Mar 01 00:50:39 from om wiki Mar 01 00:50:40 There are no external components required between the PHY chip and the USB socket. Mar 01 00:51:00 jacekowski: thanks! :-D Mar 01 00:51:10 DocScrutinizer: btw. why nokia cares about usb certification? Mar 01 00:51:20 The USB PHY chip can be switched into 'host' or 'device' mode - well really it's lower level than this, it doesn't know. Mar 01 00:51:24 that's a really good question Mar 01 00:51:31 it's easy Mar 01 00:51:52 (a) to be able to say "usb" and be to conform with the E.U. rule about usb charging Mar 01 00:51:53 DocScrutinizer: it's probably not following the agreement to do USB chargers if it's not USB certified. Mar 01 00:52:04 else it would be a proprietary connector Mar 01 00:52:09 oooh yes Mar 01 00:52:18 ~lart China Mar 01 00:52:19 * infobot hits China with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha Mar 01 00:52:23 ~lart EU Mar 01 00:52:23 * infobot readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at EU Mar 01 00:52:33 well Mar 01 00:52:39 I wish a better connector than microb had been picked. Mar 01 00:53:02 the 1.000.000 euros question is: what will the next one have ? Mar 01 00:53:04 SpeedEvil: see your own reasoning Mar 01 00:53:05 they could do same trick as atmel did with i2c Mar 01 00:53:08 and call it spi Mar 01 00:53:54 DocScrutinizer by whoever was stanardising on a connector I mean Mar 01 00:53:54 and i'm going at 01:00 to sleep - again Mar 01 00:54:07 good night everybody Mar 01 00:54:09 it's 02.54 here... Mar 01 00:54:16 * V13 leaves too Mar 01 00:54:16 SpeedEvil: aaah I C Mar 01 00:54:18 gn* Mar 01 00:54:21 gn8 Mar 01 00:54:45 I just realized that the browser and the USB port are called the same Mar 01 00:54:46 night sleepers Mar 01 00:54:48 This is a conspiracy Mar 01 00:55:10 Lumpio-: A conspiracy of the microbes! Mar 01 00:55:21 not exactly. the receptacle is a micro-B at best Mar 01 00:56:37 and next one calling it microb will get spammed by me with packets full of BGA chips - have fun with the black guys Mar 01 00:57:14 microb usb port! Mar 01 00:57:21 * SpeedEvil wants to practice his soldering. Mar 01 00:57:48 SpeedEvil: you're off the list - they are after you already :-P Mar 01 00:58:52 nevertheless if you want a handfull of those crunchy buggers, just query me Mar 01 00:59:15 got a bagfull - literally Mar 01 01:04:18 DocScrutinizer: micro usb sockets? Mar 01 01:04:41 BGA chips and similar crap Mar 01 01:04:49 heh ok Mar 01 01:05:42 btw did you figured out how/where it mounts the uSD? .. otherwise i grep that out Mar 01 01:05:55 going for ext3 there too Mar 01 01:07:03 /media/card iirc Mar 01 01:07:14 i meant the scripts which do that Mar 01 01:07:22 well i figure out by myself Mar 01 01:07:27 nah, not yet Mar 01 01:07:38 grep is your friend ;-) Mar 01 01:07:47 and in a while i can do the 'du' game over my mp3 collection .. i am sure there are no sparse files Mar 01 01:08:00 rsyncing right now Mar 01 01:10:52 Yeah I wouldn't see how such a fraking amount of sparse space could creep in to a mp3 files collection Mar 01 01:12:04 well .. thousands of small map tiles are actual an important use-case for me .. saving 60% space is important .. but i have no idea how they become sparse too, jpg and png is compressed Mar 01 01:12:43 ther's little use for files with holes as well Mar 01 01:12:48 on tiles Mar 01 01:12:54 i dont care to find the exact cause out, io speed sux already .. maybe one of the next nights Mar 01 01:13:16 maybe there is some biggier sqlite db .. but hum ... Mar 01 01:13:33 even that shouldnt be that sparse .. i really dont know Mar 01 01:13:55 will see with the mp3's later, still copying, that takes some time Mar 01 01:16:00 hi, why I can't select multiple photos in picasa with shift? Mar 01 01:16:31 missing feature at best Mar 01 01:22:57 and why I can't find firefox in app manager, I have extras-devel Mar 01 01:24:23 Depressing Modest quoting. Mar 01 01:25:28 GAN900: ?? Mar 01 01:26:06 DocScrutinizer, was going to reply to an email on here, but Modest's useless quoting put me off. Mar 01 01:26:24 aah yes :-S Mar 01 01:28:30 heh, Haiti, now Chile. Is it just me or are those quakes getting more frequent and harder ? Mar 01 01:30:50 (not as OT as it might sound - I'm sure there's a lot of usefull apps that could get their own "emergency management" category Mar 01 01:30:53 ) Mar 01 01:31:15 maybe just coincidence Mar 01 01:32:07 my wifes parents send some pics ... cracks in the walls, tumbled furniture Mar 01 01:32:12 ... from valparaiso Mar 01 01:32:43 :-/ Mar 01 01:33:03 SanFran, the impacts home in Mar 01 01:33:07 well nothing *really* dramatic happend ... Mar 01 01:34:04 fix for no firefox in manager, anyone? Mar 01 01:34:05 the richterscale is logarithmic .. meaning the chile earthquake was almost 100 times as strong as the one in haiti ... Mar 01 01:34:44 looking at that they are really lucky (or better say they where prepared) that nothing worse happend Mar 01 01:35:04 yup Mar 01 01:35:27 of course its worse enough still Mar 01 01:38:27 SanFran is very high on the big earthquake list .. looking at history, the next big bang there is overdue already Mar 01 01:38:53 everyone knows that it *will* happen .. just not when Mar 01 01:59:12 heh, if Nokia were more alert and smart, they'd throw together navit, tangogps (with online location tracking), xchat (with option for hardcoded hidden channel passwords), (video) conferencing, and a few http bookmarks and other usefull stuff - then flash that to a 1000 N900 and supply to all the emergency response and rescue teams worldwide Mar 01 02:00:51 the ones in action Mar 01 02:07:01 evening Mar 01 02:08:05 i would like to clear up some space on my N800 ( runnign maemo 5 ), is there a way to see what apps are dependant on what libs? Mar 01 02:08:50 i figure some apps install libs but do not remove them when uninstalled ... Mar 01 02:10:10 hey Mar 01 02:10:27 would it be possible to use CallBlocker.py to play a different tune, instead of blocking the call? Mar 01 02:14:23 mma Mar 01 02:14:36 boolean: maemo5 on N800? Mar 01 02:18:54 ptl: I wasn't aware of callblocker. :-D The main problem I expect you'll face is to change the ringtone "on the fly". Maybe you could kill the process playing the original ringtone, then launch a player for your customized one. Stopping this one in the right moment is probably very difficult though Mar 01 02:19:31 hmm.. interesting .. Mar 01 02:19:57 one of the software tools ( advanced-power ) notes that it is 5,2 Mar 01 02:20:17 better yet ... 5.2008.43-7 Mar 01 02:20:19 ptl: I did a little investigating on this some weeks ago. Alas I couldn't fins any dbus msg that looked like ringtone-related Mar 01 02:20:41 i believe tis the latest -> fremantle Mar 01 02:21:29 boolean: thats not maemo5 Mar 01 02:21:42 * DocScrutinizer cranks up installer/updater on N810 Mar 01 02:21:57 well not the maemo5 thats on n900 Mar 01 02:21:59 moin rasterman Mar 01 02:22:14 last i knew the n800 fw images were all os2008 Mar 01 02:22:19 DocScrutinizer: 'avo :) Mar 01 02:22:28 hmm Mar 01 02:22:28 Nokia-N800-43-7:/etc#cat osso_software_version Mar 01 02:22:29 RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_MR0 Mar 01 02:23:12 so nope .. not fremantle Mar 01 02:23:13 Diablo != Fremantle Mar 01 02:23:45 raster: some were os2007, afair. at least that's what it originally came with Mar 01 02:23:47 yup .. just klewed in :) Mar 01 02:26:03 seems to me like diablo seen no updates neither OS nor apps, for at least 6 months Mar 01 02:26:36 dunno ... i haven't played with my device for a long time Mar 01 02:26:51 hell I only discovered the FM radio ability the other day :P Mar 01 02:27:47 then again .. what is with all the Maemo 5 on the main page of maemo.org? Mar 01 02:27:56 lol Mar 01 02:28:10 I'm pretty sure the 810 doen't have any Mar 01 02:28:35 arachnist: originally - yes, and 2008 updates got u.. 2008... Mar 01 02:28:44 i havent heard of any maemo5 for n800/810 Mar 01 02:28:58 boolean: maemo5 aka Fremantle is N900 (for now) Mar 01 02:30:12 boolean: seems nokia has no plans to backport Fremantle to devices<900 Mar 01 02:30:45 this might change ith meego Mar 01 02:30:57 well there seems to be something to do with diable being version 5 otherwise i would not have that version mentioned in the /etc/osso_software_version Mar 01 02:31:43 oh well, don't ask me about those version numbers Mar 01 02:32:05 heh ... Mar 01 02:32:22 mhm there is some io congestion problem Mar 01 02:32:25 ok then what about dependancies? Mar 01 02:39:27 ok packageview might do the trick ... sorta Mar 01 02:39:46 DocScrutinizer: sorry, I was taking a bath. Yeah, I expect to find that, a dbus message that could allow me to change the ringtone on-the-fly. :( Mar 01 02:40:07 *I expected Mar 01 02:42:12 maybe gconf .. but on the fly .. maybe not Mar 01 02:42:33 i was also thinking about hooking music into the alarm clock Mar 01 02:43:23 cehteh: i thought the default clock applet does that already Mar 01 02:43:28 no Mar 01 02:43:38 at least i didnt found out without tweaks Mar 01 02:44:51 hmm Mar 01 02:45:01 uhm 78% iowait .. has this emmc high latency ... Mar 01 02:45:16 better dont ask -- its mmc/sd after all :/ Mar 01 02:45:47 kewl .. what tool did u use to get that ? Mar 01 02:46:19 doesnt top show that already? .. its somewhere in proc too Mar 01 02:46:31 i use iostat Mar 01 02:46:48 doh! Mar 01 02:47:02 and here I was thinkign along the lines of sar or vmstat Mar 01 02:48:55 /proc/stat has the counters .. you have to calculate percentage Mar 01 02:49:12 cehteh: go on, finally check if there's a go or a no-go on /home/usr/ and /home/var. You're used to flashing your device now ;-P Mar 01 02:49:33 huh? Mar 01 02:49:49 /home is already ext3 so whats the problem Mar 01 02:49:55 and no, i dont want to flash again Mar 01 02:50:02 the problem is /usr on / Mar 01 02:50:13 and /var Mar 01 02:50:16 well i can copy that over and bind-mount it Mar 01 02:50:23 exactly Mar 01 02:50:50 but that makes not that much sense .. thats something nokia should have done and spare us all the optify stuff Mar 01 02:51:02 exactly Mar 01 02:51:08 now its already fuba .. fixing that here wont help much Mar 01 02:51:41 it'll help with all the non-optifiable stuff, like cmdline tools etc Mar 01 02:51:43 i rather wonder why io becomes so congested Mar 01 02:52:07 rsync starts very fast (cough) 5-7mb sec the device follows that Mar 01 02:52:39 and then it drops down to 500k/sec after some time and the device becomes sluggish Mar 01 02:52:58 and the io on the device becomes even worse Mar 01 02:53:13 i ctrl-z then wait for it to recover and continue Mar 01 02:53:24 buffers run out. So bufferd inodes need to be written to flash Mar 01 02:53:56 memory pressure is not very high .. lots of free memory Mar 01 02:54:30 echo 1 >/proc/sys/vm/vfs_cache_pressure Mar 01 02:54:30 lets see Mar 01 02:54:37 won't help when some io-scheduler decides not to use that free space Mar 01 02:55:01 noatime might help a lot (dunno if you mounted everything noatime) Mar 01 02:55:13 actually i run systems with vfs_cache_pressure = 1 often .. but that usually needs enough ram Mar 01 02:55:22 of course Mar 01 02:56:32 well commit=600 ... but it should flush the log when its full anyways Mar 01 02:57:17 vfs_cache_pressure didnt improved it Mar 01 02:58:15 i set it to 200 .. since no much ram and reading from flash should be not too slow (but well this is sd ...) Mar 01 02:58:51 well and this affects only bulk writes which rarely happen **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 01 02:59:57 2010