**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 04 02:59:58 2010 Mar 04 03:24:09 ~stats Mar 04 03:24:10 Since Thu Mar 4 01:30:25 2010, there have been 1 modification, 8 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 2 commands. I have been awake for 1h 53m 44s this session, and currently reference 116874 factoids. I'm using about 16348 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 139.82/6.16 child 0.33/0.16 Mar 04 03:24:33 ~thanks Mar 04 03:24:33 bitte, crashanddie Mar 04 03:26:40 chanserv got funny ideas, no? Mar 04 03:27:18 ~weather EDDN Mar 04 03:27:21 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.03.04 0320 UTC; Dew Point: 21 F (-6 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.91 in. Hg (1013 hPa); Relative Humidity: 68%; Temperature: 30 F (-1 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (040 degrees) at 6 MPH (5 KT); Windchill: 23 F (-5 C) Mar 04 03:27:49 ~botsnack Mar 04 03:27:49 thanks, DocScrutinizer Mar 04 03:29:55 ~uptime Mar 04 03:30:19 DocScrutinizer: I told CS to do that :) Mar 04 03:30:39 :-) Mar 04 03:30:48 ~weather brisbane Mar 04 03:30:51 I can't find station code "BRISBANE" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Mar 04 03:30:57 :( Mar 04 03:33:10 ~weather YBBN Mar 04 03:33:13 Brisbane Airport M. O, Australia; (YBBN) 27-23S 153-06E 5M; last updated: 2010.03.04 0300 UTC; Dew Point: 64 F (18 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.85 in. Hg (1011 hPa); Relative Humidity: 61%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 78 F (26 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the SE (130 degrees) at 13 MPH (11 KT) Mar 04 03:34:20 DocScrutinizer: 27C difference :P Mar 04 03:37:58 ~weather http://maemos.ru/2009/12/20/java-nokia-n900-maemo-5-opera-mini/ ---> java SE and java ME for N900 Mar 04 03:38:01 I can't find station code "HTTP://MAEMOS.RU/2009/12/20/JAVA-NOKIA-N900-MAEMO-5-OPERA-MINI/ ---> JAVA SE AND JAVA ME N900" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Mar 04 03:38:02 oops Mar 04 03:38:03 no ~weather line Mar 04 03:38:05 lol Mar 04 03:40:57 ptl: java has been working on the N900 for quite a while now Mar 04 03:42:19 maybe not in .RU ;-P Mar 04 03:42:28 crashanddie: yes, but that's an unified solution, a single zip file. That helps, don't you think? Mar 04 03:42:31 java SE *and* ME Mar 04 03:42:41 well Mar 04 03:42:47 people who want to use SE rarely want ME Mar 04 03:42:51 and vice versa Mar 04 04:21:57 just woke up i had strange dream that there was an firmware update on my n900 when i woke i ran to my n900 and dissapointed myself lol i thought my dream was real Mar 04 04:23:35 don't you know dreams are about future, not present? Mar 04 04:23:42 morning Mar 04 04:23:49 moin Mar 04 04:25:05 "My mother in law broke up my marriage." "How'd that happen?" "Well, my wife came home from work one night, and found us in bed together." Mar 04 04:25:52 Special Mar 04 04:35:18 GeneralAntilles: admit it, you like it Mar 04 04:35:31 i like it Mar 04 04:40:39 lol Mar 04 04:51:53 http://www.vodafone.com.au/personal/mobilebroadband/mobile-broadband-prepaid.htm Mar 04 04:52:03 look at the price for 4GB and 6GB Mar 04 04:52:06 notice anything weird? Mar 04 04:56:59 crashanddie: but it has a 180 day expiry, so you only have to "top up" every 6 months Mar 04 04:57:20 so topping up every 6 months is worth losing 2GB of data? Mar 04 04:57:47 consider someone who will use 1GB per month Mar 04 04:58:01 the 6GB plan will be cheapest for them Mar 04 05:02:19 ali1234: true Mar 04 05:10:09 hallo Mar 04 05:12:40 >_< anyone remember if kernel 2.4.19 had a known memory leak (besides the iptables one)? Mar 04 05:14:56 2.4.19? Mar 04 05:15:09 that was like... over 6 years ago Mar 04 05:15:15 8 years Mar 04 05:15:16 8 maybe even Mar 04 05:15:17 yeah Mar 04 05:15:20 yeah Mar 04 05:15:23 ;> Mar 04 05:15:23 work related ... Mar 04 05:16:03 I have a linux-based (though mostly closed) NAS that's been up for 257 days and it's grinding to a halt Mar 04 05:16:18 the RSS of all the processes on the machine don't add up to the amount of memory used Mar 04 05:18:03 johnx: don't you think it's silly to ask if somebody can count all the flaws of a 8 year old kernel, from top of his head? Mar 04 05:18:46 nah. more like taking a shot in the dark that someone remembers Mar 04 05:19:22 anyways, I should have probably added a to the front of that :) Mar 04 05:20:27 and I figured someone might get a laugh out of the ancient stuff we're using Mar 04 05:21:08 johnx: ask it on #linux Mar 04 05:21:18 johnx: might be the funzors Mar 04 05:21:32 johnx: for the laugh it was a success Mar 04 05:21:38 actually, I'll do it Mar 04 05:23:20 man, android is stupid Mar 04 05:23:43 trip0, but cheap Mar 04 05:24:00 it'd make a good motto actually: "Stupid ... but cheap!" Mar 04 05:24:20 mobile OS's are like prostitutes. you probably don't want cheap. Mar 04 05:24:56 heh. but if you're dead set on a hooker and you only have $150 that kinda limits your options Mar 04 05:25:17 some people would just tell you to save up and get something nice later, but not everyone has the willpower to hold out Mar 04 05:25:54 then you wake up the next morning next to your droid and you think "why didn't i just save up for the n900?" Mar 04 05:26:13 ...probably wishing you were still drunk Mar 04 05:26:47 yeah, or you shell out $500 for the N900 and think: maybe I should have gotten a used G1 and $350 of vodka Mar 04 05:26:58 lol Mar 04 05:27:06 johnx: lol Mar 04 05:27:10 i'd get a droid... if it had a better keyboard Mar 04 05:27:32 its keyboard is almoast as bad as typing on a touchscreen Mar 04 05:27:54 I'm thinking of getting a G1 (and $350 of booze) when I have to return my loaner N900 Mar 04 05:28:16 (not actually getting $350 of booze so much as ... food for the month) Mar 04 05:29:15 seen the G1... not impressed Mar 04 05:29:25 played with one Mar 04 05:29:35 dunno if I'm $350 more impressed with the N900 Mar 04 05:29:54 i played with the nexus one for 2 weeks Mar 04 05:30:15 i was definitely $350 more impressed with the n900 Mar 04 05:30:36 speaking of food... i have to stop buying things, unless i'm going to learn how to eat air... Mar 04 05:30:53 hmm, I'll have to get my hands on a G1 again and see if my vision of the past is just rose tinted ... Mar 04 05:31:10 i am ~400$ impressed by my n900, but i paid ~800$ for it Mar 04 05:31:15 only have $150? Mar 04 05:31:16 o_O Mar 04 05:31:21 * johnx just furnished an apartment from craigslist :> Mar 04 05:31:26 for a hooker? Mar 04 05:31:31 lol Mar 04 05:31:41 johnx, traitorous thoughts! Mar 04 05:31:44 here you can get a hooker for $20, half an hour Mar 04 05:32:22 ptl, well that's the problem right there: half an hour. that's just getting started ... Mar 04 05:32:30 moo johnx Mar 04 05:32:41 Pfft. 5 minutes is plenty! ;)= Mar 04 05:32:56 RST38h, m00f Mar 04 05:32:57 MiXu-: +1. after 10minutes, i'm already snoozing Mar 04 05:33:00 So, lemme see, someone betraying his N900 for a hooker? Mar 04 05:33:05 trip0 =D Mar 04 05:33:13 GeneralAntilles, eh, dunno how to justify $500 when there are other things on the budget ... Mar 04 05:33:26 johnx, may be cheaper by the time return time rolls around. Mar 04 05:33:45 How much does N900 actually sell for in the US at the moment? Mar 04 05:33:56 GeneralAntilles, $350 cheaper in the next couple weeks? Mar 04 05:34:17 MiXu-, i hear 400 on ebay Mar 04 05:34:25 it's 530 on newegg where i got mine Mar 04 05:34:29 Alright. That's so wrong. Mar 04 05:34:31 MiXu-, google says $500 - $530 new Mar 04 05:34:35 johnx, G1 sucks, though. Mar 04 05:34:45 In europe it's same numbers, but different currency. Mar 04 05:35:00 seriously, the G1 is stuck in android 1.5 land Mar 04 05:35:00 $530 becomes 530e Mar 04 05:35:18 (which is $724) Mar 04 05:35:22 GeneralAntilles, if it shows maps and web pages and lets me make phone calls, text messages and IMs I'm pretty much good Mar 04 05:35:31 MiXu-, seems kinda steep Mar 04 05:36:09 Wait, you are looking for the CHEAPEST tablet phone? Mar 04 05:36:27 When N96 hit the stores back in 2008, the price was about $1300 (1e=1,3$) Mar 04 05:36:32 RST38h, cheapest one with a keyboard and linux, essentially Mar 04 05:36:41 But only for like the first week or two though Mar 04 05:37:57 johnx: ah that limits choices Mar 04 05:37:58 the G1 doesn't run linux Mar 04 05:38:17 johnx: Are you sure you want Android "linux", to begin with? Mar 04 05:38:42 RST38h, symbian and winmo drive me up the wall, and I'm stuck on t-mobile USA Mar 04 05:38:42 android is more like "linooks" than Linux Mar 04 05:38:51 trip0, it's "close enough" in most ways Mar 04 05:39:11 iPhone is technically linux too ;) Mar 04 05:39:17 johnx: N900 then. Or suffer for another 9 months and then the next Maemo. Mar 04 05:39:20 MiXu: FreeBSD. Mar 04 05:39:26 and who knows, maybe I'll hack it up and try some of the patches that recently have been getting into mainline to make the MSM in it work in "real" linux Mar 04 05:39:29 Oh, my bad. Mar 04 05:39:47 RST38h, yeah, you missed the part where I have a better use for $350 Mar 04 05:39:59 johnx: That I can understand, yes Mar 04 05:40:29 a man must have his principles Mar 04 05:40:40 ...so he can toss them out the window for cheap booze and hookers Mar 04 05:40:46 johnx: but is that better use going to be as much fun? =) Mar 04 05:40:51 trip0, I'll drink to that! Mar 04 05:41:15 RST38h, well part of it is going to food and part is going to an HDTV, sooo I'd have to say yes Mar 04 05:41:40 anyways, I'm not giving up on maemo/meego, just the N900 hardware ;) Mar 04 05:41:41 johnx: I would screw HDTV off the list Mar 04 05:41:46 is it possible to reformat MyDocs as an ext2/ext3 partition? Mar 04 05:42:03 johnx: No, really. After considering all the benefits. Mar 04 05:42:44 RST38h, then call it a $150 (used) 36" monitor that I can use for watching movies with my wife Mar 04 05:43:10 (and, btw, I probably canot insist on N900 specifically, but Droid or Nexus will still be way better than the G1) Mar 04 05:43:29 johnx: Ah Mar 04 05:43:31 ok Mar 04 05:43:53 225lbs of CRT lovin' Mar 04 05:43:55 Droid has its partitions cryptographically signed, you can't change system software Mar 04 05:44:08 ptl, that and being on verizon are a big strike against it Mar 04 05:44:13 johnx: Which brings up a question of whether N900 et al are available used? Mar 04 05:44:23 ptl: Oh =( Mar 04 05:44:24 ptl: err, I doubt that's true Mar 04 05:44:32 so instead of the usual half-baked openness of android you'll have a quarter-baked android Mar 04 05:44:34 unless that doesn't apply to the kernel Mar 04 05:45:14 microlith, why? tivo does the same thing... Mar 04 05:45:14 microlith: ok, i confess that I didn't dig deeper into the subject, I trusted a friend who's a technical guy and has a motorola droid Mar 04 05:45:57 because I work with guys who've taken the Droid and installed a custom kernel on it Mar 04 05:45:58 But motorola traditionally locks up their phones tight Mar 04 05:46:04 ptl: aware of that Mar 04 05:46:29 maybe they got some hack to do it, some workaround Mar 04 05:46:30 RST38h, lowest is $465 on fleabay Mar 04 05:46:44 ptl: entirely possible, the Droid has been rooted iirc Mar 04 05:47:26 tivo...feh Mar 04 05:47:39 johnx: Have they reenabled ad skipping in tivo? Mar 04 05:48:21 RST38h, I have no idea. I'm pretty disillusioned with them overall though Mar 04 05:48:45 microlith: that was the matter, he told me that due to the encryption, even with root access you couldn't do modifications on the root partition (or something like that) Mar 04 05:49:07 ptl: weird, I'll ask about it tomorrow Mar 04 05:49:19 wouldn't surprise me, and makes me happy I ignored the Droid (and verizon) Mar 04 05:49:29 Verizon is good Mar 04 05:49:36 In terms of signal reception Mar 04 05:49:38 sure Mar 04 05:49:44 The rest is...mhm Mar 04 05:49:46 also good at charging a lot of money Mar 04 05:49:54 johnx: they are all good at that Mar 04 05:50:11 t-mo US is worse at both :) Mar 04 05:50:19 johnx: the only solution is to charge your employer a lot of money, preferably on hourly basis Mar 04 05:50:41 working on that :) Mar 04 05:50:45 The Droid is a very good device hardware-wise and Android has some merits too Mar 04 05:50:52 it is really beautiful Mar 04 05:50:55 but Mar 04 05:51:06 ptl: keyboard does suck a bit Mar 04 05:51:28 RST38h, actually, my employer offered to pay my phone bill, but I have a feeling that comes with certain expectations of being on-call, etc Mar 04 05:51:31 it has problems, I got three friends with Motorola Droid, and it can be a coincidence, but they're all geeks and confessed to be disappointed with the device Mar 04 05:51:54 RST38h: but it has four rows, one row more than the N900, I thought it was good when I tried my friend's droid Mar 04 05:52:36 johnx: Of course. Besides, the guy may always start analyzing your call logs for private calls no related to work Mar 04 05:53:00 RST38h, nah. I'd have to set that up for him ... Mar 04 05:54:00 ptl: Felt like a piece of flat plastic film to me =) But yes, 4 rows at least Mar 04 05:54:34 * RST38h hopes Maemo Devices will not make the same mistake twice Mar 04 05:54:49 the mistake of including a keyboard? Mar 04 05:54:55 remember how they fixed the dpad? Mar 04 05:55:04 johnx: Ah, that's true Mar 04 05:55:20 johnx: But they did add the arrow buttons, at least for americans, so not all is bad Mar 04 05:55:50 granted, the d-pad was actually bad enough on the N800 that the arrows almost feel like an improvement Mar 04 05:56:13 but really, d-pads are not that hard...the whole situation boggles the mind... Mar 04 05:56:34 johnx: It is weird how everyone mourns the dpad but nobody notices that the basic operaions (running an app, switching between apps) also became harder Mar 04 05:57:10 I noticed. using the shutter button via camkeyd helps a lot though Mar 04 05:57:11 johnx: task switch was made with 1 touch in Maemo4, in Maemo5 it is 2 touches + some waiting for task switcher to show up Mar 04 05:57:43 johnx: and running an app is 3 touches *and* a slide *and* another touch Mar 04 05:57:54 RST38h: but that required screen real estate, no? Mar 04 05:58:08 (and woe be he that does not put frequently used apps directly on the desktop) Mar 04 05:58:08 yes Mar 04 05:59:29 which effectively hides the other apps from me :) Mar 04 06:02:29 worst brainfuck is taskswitcher doesn't work via kbd anymore Mar 04 06:02:40 Er, doesn't? Mar 04 06:02:48 Works here Mar 04 06:02:53 camkeyd is really useful too Mar 04 06:02:58 UHUH! how? Mar 04 06:03:06 ctrl-backspace? Mar 04 06:03:12 and THEN? Mar 04 06:03:29 DocScrutinizer, push the keyboard back in and tap on the screen. :) Mar 04 06:03:37 LOL Mar 04 06:03:50 * johnx pulls out the marketing book Mar 04 06:03:54 "touchscreens are the future" Mar 04 06:04:12 capacitive touchscreens! Mar 04 06:04:15 hehe Mar 04 06:04:22 touchscreens are A PITA both to use and to clean Mar 04 06:04:43 and NO I *do not* want a c-ts Mar 04 06:05:16 capacitive *buttons* are awesome actually :) my parents' TV set from the 80's (still working) has 13 capacitive channel selector buttons on the front Mar 04 06:05:22 * johnx tries to find a pic ... Mar 04 06:05:41 johnx, I hate them Mar 04 06:05:45 You can never find the right one. Mar 04 06:05:57 Switching inputs on my Samsung 2343bwx is an unholy pain Mar 04 06:05:58 GeneralAntilles, you've never even *met* my parents. bit harsh O_o; Mar 04 06:06:19 I have my mouse charging stand set so the input switching button is just to the right of it Mar 04 06:06:19 johnx: non-tactile stuff is still kinda problematic :( Mar 04 06:06:24 Otherwise I hit Auto all the time. Mar 04 06:06:30 I hardly use the mouse on my PC. TS is a botch replacement for a mouse. So WTF would I want to use TS? If I got a kbd Mar 04 06:06:38 looks futuristic like hell but problematic to use Mar 04 06:06:44 RST38h, actually the buttons were raised and had the numbers clearly written next to them Mar 04 06:06:50 another little details sf writes guessed wrong Mar 04 06:06:57 johnx: Ah, that changes things Mar 04 06:07:10 basically it looked like 13 little - Mar 04 06:07:18 on the front of the TV to the right of the screen Mar 04 06:07:18 s/details/details s/writes/writers shit I hate this keyoard Mar 04 06:07:32 you could flip channels like you would slide your finger over a piano Mar 04 06:07:42 johnx: clearly a great advantage for blind people at least (yes, even blind use TV) Mar 04 06:07:50 johnx: Funny, late Soviet color TVs had the same touch selector Mar 04 06:08:07 cool. this one was probably American made though Mar 04 06:08:26 either copied or somehow oscillated to the same design Mar 04 06:08:53 oh, I took a pic I think... Mar 04 06:09:48 http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnxx/4135486786/sizes/o/ Mar 04 06:10:19 c-ts is absolutely optimized to be a replacement for a hw keyboard (like 9 button kbd) Mar 04 06:10:48 all the useful aspects of a r-ts are gone with c-ts Mar 04 06:12:43 on N810 I had not to use the ts for a whole day of working with it. N900 you rather can dismiss the kbd than the ts :-( Mar 04 06:13:17 epic fail of GUI designers Mar 04 06:13:42 morning Mar 04 06:13:48 moi Stskeeps Mar 04 06:14:11 mornin' Stskeeps Mar 04 06:14:16 ehlo Stskeeps Mar 04 06:17:20 GeneralAntilles is right again. Mar 04 06:17:46 I mean, even windoze eventually learnt you might want a kbd shortcut for just everything. Maemo5 ingores that Mar 04 06:22:06 I think windows removed the underlining of letters in menus thing Mar 04 06:22:11 Doc: Well, file a few bugzilla trackers and show them to konttori Mar 04 06:22:28 It is not like Maemo5 entirely lacks shortcuts but their use is inconsistent Mar 04 06:22:36 exactly Mar 04 06:22:38 Some will be fixed in PR1.2, if I understand correctly Mar 04 06:23:02 see ctrl-bs, but then missing arrow keys and space/enter to select a task Mar 04 06:23:35 also a consistent way to invoke menus Mar 04 06:23:52 N810 had menu button Mar 04 06:24:52 ShadowJK: it hides them until you hit the alt key by default Mar 04 06:26:52 QT (3?) has an automatism for that (alt shortcuts). I really hope they won't kick that for maemo5 Mar 04 06:28:32 anyway even that won't help for the missing menu key/shortcut Mar 04 06:29:06 nor for the taskswitcher Mar 04 06:31:04 err s/maemo5/maemo6/ Mar 04 06:31:17 will there be a 6? Mar 04 06:31:55 Trizt, yes Mar 04 06:32:23 well I heard a lot of the maemo taskforce is working on maemo6 already. Whether it's calle maemo or meego in the end, who knows Mar 04 06:32:36 * Trizt nods Mar 04 06:32:57 who cares! Mar 04 06:33:21 as long as it begins on an 'm', it's the same ;) Mar 04 06:33:41 m*o :-P Mar 04 06:34:29 moblin genes were recessive there XP Mar 04 06:35:18 take one 'o' from maemo and one from moblin and call it 'moo' Mar 04 06:35:50 evolution at it's best Mar 04 06:46:06 did you people catch http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/towards-day-one yet? Mar 04 06:51:03 Stskeeps, yes, it tells us absolutely nothing new. Mar 04 06:51:19 * GeneralAntilles notes he misspelled Niels. Mar 04 06:51:28 It's a nice summary confirmation of the pieces of puzzle Mar 04 06:52:49 GeneralAntilles: that first port is for N900 is pretty new Mar 04 06:53:26 Stskeeps, meh. Mar 04 06:53:36 Not anything particularly mind boggling. Mar 04 06:53:45 GeneralAntilles: you're hard to please :P Mar 04 06:53:46 Nor does to do anything for the Harmattan/N900 issue. Mar 04 06:53:51 Stskeeps, yeah, well. Mar 04 06:53:57 well, at least it's been about time some statement was published. Not read to the last line yet, and seems I'll be disappointed Mar 04 06:55:34 GeneralAntilles: well, it is a bit hard to demand Harmattan answers in a MeeGo post ;) Mar 04 06:56:13 Stskeeps, damn you and your logic! Mar 04 06:56:44 ShadowJK: it only exists until i have my coffee, then it's replaced with my chaos working method Mar 04 06:56:47 :P Mar 04 06:57:17 The community has invested all their remaining money in pitchforks! And it's not season for making hay Mar 04 07:00:14 * tekojo coffee... Mar 04 07:00:24 indeed, i hear my kettle whistling Mar 04 07:01:19 pot meet kettle Mar 04 07:01:25 :-S Mar 04 07:01:50 GeneralAntilles I do feel like I should comment on the Niels spelling, but it would sound like nit picking in the blog Mar 04 07:01:59 tekojo, email. Mar 04 07:05:53 GeneralAntilles old faithful solution to all problems Mar 04 07:06:09 * DocScrutinizer wonders what "public R&D" might look like in the end of the day. Been a big topic on some former project Mar 04 07:06:45 DocScrutinizer: both highlevel meego architects and idealistic Mer type guys going out for icecream in the red light district of amsterdam Mar 04 07:06:48 :P Mar 04 07:06:52 together ;) Mar 04 07:07:20 Stskeeps: hehe. Hope to be one of that number Mar 04 07:07:37 random fact, there is actually a decent icecream store there :P Mar 04 07:11:56 * DocScrutinizer icecoffee. Interesting proposal for my next cup ;-P Mar 04 07:19:50 wait, going out for "ice cream"? I know what a "coffee shop" is in amsterdam, but I don't know what ice cream is a euphemism for... Mar 04 07:20:08 icecream Mar 04 07:20:08 :P Mar 04 07:20:54 kinky. Mar 04 07:28:55 * ShadowJK waits for the first "....should forget about N900 and Omap3, Omap4 and snapdragon is where it's at!"-posts/whining Mar 04 07:30:04 AFAIK, the next maemo device will be an omap3 as well Mar 04 07:30:14 Clearly we need to wait for x86-64 mobile Mar 04 07:30:55 intel is getting right on that... Mar 04 07:31:26 GeneralAntilles: you cost me a week of my life Mar 04 07:31:29 it will be compatible with most backpack generators and car batteries with a capacity of 600Ah or better Mar 04 07:31:37 GeneralAntilles: I demand damage and interest Mar 04 07:32:53 There's cool video on youtube where a guy uses a 2400mAh Li-Ion A123 battery to start his car :) Mar 04 07:33:13 Definitions of "cool" vary widely, apparently Mar 04 07:33:25 it was -21C Mar 04 07:33:47 ShadowJK: I want this video Mar 04 07:34:01 fuck sake my car won't start cause of cold sometimes :S Mar 04 07:34:04 ShadowJK: they are fun bats. Mar 04 07:34:13 I'll try find it again Mar 04 07:34:30 ShadowJK: I have a design for a little flying thing which extracts ~600W from 3 cells. Mar 04 07:34:38 SpeedEvil, I'm tempted to try order the "developer kit" and see if it shows up in finland Mar 04 07:34:53 ShadowJK: until recently half price cells were on ebay Mar 04 07:35:05 ShadowJK: someone seemed to have gotten a big batch surplus Mar 04 07:35:46 who wants to take a guess at when the next firmware is going to be released? Mar 04 07:36:00 yeah... "surplus".. I think I could probably spot the counterfeit eneloops, but I know nothing of the A123 that'd help me on ebay Mar 04 07:36:01 next friday? Mar 04 07:36:41 Sachin, end of april (just a guess) Mar 04 07:36:46 ShadowJK: reportedly (by purchasers) the real thing Mar 04 07:37:03 why so late? Mar 04 07:37:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcvmvrmTMMk for the batteryfreaks Mar 04 07:37:27 if that is the case why release 1.1 so early? Mar 04 07:37:30 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-PCS-A123-NEW-18650-1000-1100mah-Lifepo4-battery-cell_W0QQitemZ270536768218QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efd3f7ada Mar 04 07:37:36 I remember someone saying (around here) that the 1.2 thingy was expected "next week" when 1.1.1 arrived :) Mar 04 07:38:30 Sachin, because you asked me to guess. So I did. I have no more info than you do Mar 04 07:38:35 I can guess again if you want Mar 04 07:38:52 better not be so late.. Mar 04 07:39:51 or what? Mar 04 07:40:21 ShadowJK Mar 04 07:40:27 ~weather YBBN Mar 04 07:40:59 ill make my own firmware and release it :) Mar 04 07:41:23 duh Mar 04 07:41:29 /invite infobot Mar 04 07:42:43 alright. back to work. 'later maemoers :) Mar 04 07:45:27 SpeedEvil, how did purchaser determine it's the real thing? :-) Mar 04 07:45:56 I think you'd have to push it beyond what the standard lifepo4 can do Mar 04 07:46:46 ShadowJK: fast charges Mar 04 07:46:58 ShadowJK: standard lifepo4 can't do them really Mar 04 07:54:37 what means fast here? Mar 04 07:56:01 is t.m.o down Mar 04 07:56:31 http://talk.maemo.org/ Mar 04 07:56:56 looks like it. Mar 04 07:57:27 DocScrutinizer: >20C charge Mar 04 07:57:42 ahh, k Mar 04 07:57:43 I want 20C charge!! Mar 04 07:57:50 I can has? Mar 04 07:58:01 * tybollt hands mece a cheezeburgr Mar 04 07:58:10 om nom nom Mar 04 07:58:11 anyway Mar 04 07:58:29 1C is getting rather old... Mar 04 07:59:29 "float charge" allowed... Mar 04 07:59:37 but how damaging is it, I wonder Mar 04 08:00:33 t.m.o is alive again its been going off and online all morning for me since it done the daily back up Mar 04 08:01:27 mhm, noticed a few 120sec downtimes last few hours as well Mar 04 08:01:50 wiki that is Mar 04 08:02:38 i never checked wiki only looked at downloads and that seems unaffected Mar 04 08:03:24 I'm having some trouble getting gcc to work in easy debian. Mar 04 08:03:42 Does anyone have some experience with this? Mar 04 08:07:27 infobot: hi! welcome back again Mar 04 08:07:48 infobot: say hi! Mar 04 08:07:49 hi! Mar 04 08:08:22 *yawn* Mar 04 08:08:53 ~poke cehteh Mar 04 08:08:54 * infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind cehteh, pokes cehteh repeatedly, hilarity ensues. Mar 04 08:09:17 ~puke DocScrutinizer Mar 04 08:09:18 * infobot , while sick, attempts to make it to the porcelain god and pukes all over harleypig Mar 04 08:10:11 hm .. :P Mar 04 08:13:31 ~kill tybollt Mar 04 08:13:32 * infobot shoots a inverse fluxquark gun at tybollt Mar 04 08:13:52 no suicide protection? Mar 04 08:20:43 ~kill infobot Mar 04 08:20:44 * infobot shoots a ionized fluxelectron gun at infobot Mar 04 08:22:16 * n00bmonk3y waves up Mar 04 08:22:22 * n00bmonk3y wakes up * Mar 04 08:22:34 woah way to early Mar 04 08:23:08 ~slap n00bmonk3y Mar 04 08:23:09 * infobot slaps n00bmonk3y, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Mar 04 08:23:24 ~wake n00bmonk3y Mar 04 08:23:25 * infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on n00bmonk3y and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" Mar 04 08:23:41 * n00bmonk3y blinks Mar 04 08:24:00 hmm-. aptitude upgrade over 3g 384kbps might have been a bad idea... Mar 04 08:24:07 2 slaps, a bucket of water and a ~wake? lol! Mar 04 08:24:18 lol mece Mar 04 08:26:03 are there any open source office readers for maemo? Mar 04 08:26:13 hmm. what's the latest pr build? Mar 04 08:26:26 3.2010.02-8? Mar 04 08:26:28 1.1.1, depends where you are Mar 04 08:26:42 doesnt docs on the go that comes on the device count? or do you watn the code? lol Mar 04 08:27:16 n00bmonkey3y, it's not free I understand. Mar 04 08:27:22 yup mord Mar 04 08:27:27 :) Mar 04 08:27:30 oh well Mar 04 08:27:45 right. ty. Mar 04 08:28:16 still depends where you are Mar 04 08:28:24 not released in the UK yet Mar 04 08:35:11 is extras down? Mar 04 08:35:30 oh nvrmind Mar 04 08:43:32 Hi has anybody compiled rdflib to diablo? Mar 04 08:50:18 the quietness may mean no :P Mar 04 08:51:58 or everbody shiffers, cause its scary :( Mar 04 08:54:51 the python-egg installation is no problem with gcc-4.3 on i386 but using a cross-compiler ended in "processor doesn't support " or basic stdout.h was missing Mar 04 08:55:16 Not my kind of fun in scratchbox Mar 04 08:56:11 The_Tall1, did you clean it between builds? Mar 04 08:57:02 no but used different dir for the object files Mar 04 08:57:39 fun times. Mar 04 08:58:07 mece: Between which builds? Mar 04 08:59:03 The_Tall1, well i had a similar problem when i compiled something in i386, then the same thing in armel Mar 04 08:59:12 "make clean" helped. Mar 04 08:59:23 and configure Mar 04 09:00:43 mece: thanks for this hint. Mar 04 09:05:48 good morning Mar 04 09:27:46 Morning, all Mar 04 09:46:47 mece: thanks again got rdflib installed in scratchbox. Now have to build a debian package. Might become interesting Mar 04 09:51:35 Morning, all Mar 04 09:51:42 Ah, I did that. Mar 04 09:52:36 Jaffa: Do you have a debian package for armel devices? Mar 04 09:57:43 The_Tall1, cool! Mar 04 10:05:02 The_Tall1: Of? Mar 04 10:17:45 no shower Mar 04 10:18:10 no? Mar 04 10:18:36 can you atleast use deodorant? You kind of smell :( Mar 04 10:19:49 Jaffa, going senile i see! good mornin to you Mar 04 10:20:03 i hope there is going to be a weekly news item about the lardman fix Mar 04 10:21:04 Jaffa: No just got back Mar 04 10:21:18 in wiki.maemo.org, how can I contact an author of a wiki page ? Mar 04 10:21:29 clicking on his name, or the talk link next to it, just takes me to pages that don't exist Mar 04 10:21:47 create the page Mar 04 10:21:59 they may notice Mar 04 10:22:16 or find the linked talk.maemo.org page and send them a message Mar 04 10:22:25 or if they're on IRC, ping them Mar 04 10:27:25 ~ Mar 04 10:28:55 ~! Mar 04 10:29:23 ~~ Mar 04 10:29:24 well, ~ is the key Mar 04 10:30:35 ~slap self Mar 04 10:30:36 The_Tall1: You were asking about Debian armel packages Mar 04 10:30:36 * infobot slaps self, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Mar 04 10:31:03 Jaffa: Yes Mar 04 10:32:31 Jaffa:Building a package out of the rdflib python-egg Mar 04 10:34:25 Jaffa: Is dh_make and fixing rules, control and makefile the only way? Mar 04 10:48:34 Hello. Is "Attila Csipa" here ? Mar 04 10:54:59 do you know if pyqt4 is in extras ? Mar 04 11:05:27 V13, you can check Mar 04 11:06:46 i did and i found: not Mar 04 11:07:00 then there is your answer Mar 04 11:07:22 but then again, atilla77 which is the maintainer of pyqt4 asked me if i'm going to promote wifieye to extras which depends on pyqt4 Mar 04 11:07:30 im not sure what the qt and extras arrangement will be post 1.2, hopefully it will be simpler - X-Fade do you have any idea Mar 04 11:07:42 V13: That does no matter, it gets promoted as a dependency. Mar 04 11:07:56 X-Fade: even if we're talking about pyqt4 ? Mar 04 11:08:08 i understand this for all other libraries, but pyqt4 too ? :-) Mar 04 11:08:10 V13: Well, there is the PR1.2 thingie ;) Mar 04 11:08:19 hmm.. perhaps i should check qt4 instead of pyqt4 Mar 04 11:08:25 X-Fade: Exactly :-) Mar 04 11:08:50 oh... problem solved. Mar 04 11:09:10 qt4 4.5.3 comes from nokia, so there is no reason not to promote pyqt4 when needed. Mar 04 11:09:57 qt5 4.5.3 is on < PR1.2 devices by default. Mar 04 11:10:02 qt4 ;) Mar 04 11:10:14 qt4 4.6 on >= PR1.2 Mar 04 11:11:17 ok then... I bring you pyqt4 in extras then :) Mar 04 11:11:52 anybody know ehrer microb caches the .flvs? i would like to copy them out of /tmp or wherever Mar 04 11:11:56 where Mar 04 11:12:18 V13: It will also mean that it won't work once PR1.2 is released. Mar 04 11:12:37 On PR1.2 devices. Mar 04 11:12:46 x-fade i'd rephrase that as: ... it might not work once PR1.2 is released Mar 04 11:12:59 V13: Will. Mar 04 11:13:02 I'm not doing anything 4.5 specific. Mar 04 11:13:05 nor maemo specific. Mar 04 11:13:19 V13: As then you need an updated python2.5-qt4-core too. Mar 04 11:13:27 oh Mar 04 11:13:37 right Mar 04 11:14:14 Well, it depends if it that will work. As it has >= 4.5.3 depends. Mar 04 11:14:18 Perhaps the'll reconsider having qt 4.5 available in /opt Mar 04 11:14:39 this qt-thing versioning is very lame. Mar 04 11:14:45 Dual install will be quite a pain. Mar 04 11:14:48 not very but lame Mar 04 11:15:17 Let's hope that Qt4.6 stays for a while :) Mar 04 11:15:40 they should properly handle library versions instead of using the "product" version for them. Mar 04 11:15:54 I mean, someone should force trolls to read the info page of libtool. Mar 04 11:16:25 * ptl is not from trolltech triggers 'info libtool' right now Mar 04 11:16:26 V13, are you offering? Mar 04 11:16:37 * V13 gets its gun Mar 04 11:16:42 s/its/his Mar 04 11:16:50 * V13 computerized Mar 04 11:16:53 lay down your arms Mar 04 11:17:05 start a tshirt campaign or something Mar 04 11:17:31 X-Fade: it won't be such a problem in the future Mar 04 11:17:38 X-Fade: API/ABI compatibility Mar 04 11:17:44 w00t: Yeah. Mar 04 11:18:50 w00t yeah right.. Mar 04 11:19:02 as far as i remember qt>4.0, it always was... no ? Mar 04 11:19:07 systemui 977 user mem REG 254,1 29763056 130236 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive Mar 04 11:19:12 4.5 => 4.6 should be 4.5 => 5.0 Mar 04 11:19:22 pupnik yes. Mar 04 11:19:23 V13: I don't understand what you're saying Mar 04 11:20:02 w00t: qt4 always had api and abi breakage between releases Mar 04 11:20:14 V13: no, it doesn't Mar 04 11:20:26 V13: they introduce new API, they don't break old API, and nor do they break ABI Mar 04 11:20:29 ok.. i'm not 100% sure but i remember kde always working on a specific qt version Mar 04 11:20:34 V13: Qt on Maemo was different prior to 4.6 Mar 04 11:21:08 w00t: AFAIK, it's not the maemo additions that make qt 4.6 incompatible with 4.5. KDE 4.2 will not work with qt4.6 for example. Mar 04 11:21:10 Nexus 900, how's that for the name of a phone? Mar 04 11:21:57 V13: it is the Maemo additions, because e.g. kinetic scrolling (on Maemo) changed totally from 4.5 that is there now to 4.6, along with other changes Mar 04 11:21:58 w00t: of course I might be wrong, but that's what I remember. Mar 04 11:22:33 w00t: then python2.5-qt4-core will work both with qt4.5 and qt4.6 ? Mar 04 11:22:59 7834245 3666 /home/user/MyDocs/tmp/FlashFYlp2n woooot Mar 04 11:23:26 I don't definitively know the answer, probably, if it's built for 4.5 and doesn't use any new additions from 4.6 Mar 04 11:23:28 pupnik: are you looking for packages that take up space ? Mar 04 11:23:49 w00t: it currently works with 4.5, so it should be compatible with 4.6 ? Mar 04 11:24:17 I really hope you're right. Mar 04 11:24:19 :) Mar 04 11:26:05 V13: no just a way to archive video from browser Mar 04 11:26:21 oh Mar 04 11:28:11 why-the-frak wont this configure file recognize sdl_mixer having ogg support? Mar 04 11:28:27 V13: Actually wifieye runs on pr1.2 with qt4.6 only. Mar 04 11:28:38 ? Mar 04 11:28:53 i didn't get that. you mean it requires 4.6 ? Mar 04 11:29:04 or that is runs if qt is upgraded ? Mar 04 11:29:12 No, it runs on PR1.2 where only qt4.6 is available. Mar 04 11:29:29 you've pr1.2 in your hands ? :) Mar 04 11:30:12 Can't comment on that, but I'm telling you it works ;) Mar 04 11:30:19 thanks :) Mar 04 11:30:21 * lcuk giggles Mar 04 11:30:37 * V13 presses the "Thanks" button Mar 04 11:30:55 Oh, sweet. More karma ;) Mar 04 11:31:21 ~X-Fade:++ Mar 04 11:31:33 oops Mar 04 11:31:34 x-fade i suppose you're using python2.5-qt4-* from extras testing. right ? Mar 04 11:31:38 ~X-Fade++ Mar 04 11:31:57 V13: Installed wifieye from testing, yes. Mar 04 11:32:02 i mean, not another version, compiled for a different maemo (let's say pr1.2) Mar 04 11:32:42 V13: No, python is a community supported runtime. So it is not included in the device by default. Mar 04 11:33:13 yes. i'm aware of that. but you could have re-compiled it yourself. suppose not Mar 04 11:33:22 python2.5-qt4-core 4.7-maemo7 Mar 04 11:33:33 yeap... that one :) Mar 04 11:33:49 V13: I just clicked from AM, I really don't have time to recompile things ;) Mar 04 11:35:59 X-Fade could tell you but then he'd have to kill you... Mar 04 11:37:04 Any idea how the screenshots for http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ are generated? Mar 04 11:37:15 I mean... who does it? I don't see a way to add a screenshot for wifieye Mar 04 11:38:07 V13: You can do it yourself. Mar 04 11:38:44 hm... how exactly ? Mar 04 11:38:54 V13: The entry will be created automatically once the app is in Extras. Mar 04 11:39:11 oh.. good Mar 04 11:39:12 V13: And then you can just go to the page and click 'edit' on the floating bar. Mar 04 11:39:14 thanks Mar 04 11:39:56 I suppose you don't mean this one: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/wifieye/0.5.0-1/ Mar 04 11:40:01 No Mar 04 11:40:21 k Mar 04 11:48:14 hi Mar 04 11:55:01 it is very nice to watch webvideo with mplayer, letting browser cache it on pause :) Mar 04 11:56:41 is it possible to have an smtp-only mail account in modest which stores sent mail on imap? Mar 04 11:59:22 satmd: I didn't understand what you said. How is it going to be 'smtp only' if it has access to imap ? Mar 04 11:59:52 you mean, not to fetch mails ? Mar 04 12:11:44 V13: yes Mar 04 12:12:04 I have one central imap account with getmail integration Mar 04 12:12:21 but for sending mail, I use individual smtp accounts on my desktop Mar 04 12:13:24 Perhaps you mean identities ? Mar 04 12:13:41 hmm. my maemo.org karma dropped to nearly half of it. Mar 04 12:13:53 andre__: i lost a large portion of my karma too :( Mar 04 12:14:35 My name is Tim! (ref My name is Earl!) Mar 04 12:15:05 well, if I can use these identities with individual smtp server, fine Mar 04 12:16:35 Since it is not possible to subscribe to folders or exclude from check mail, i guess it is not 100% possible Mar 04 12:16:47 you can have multiple accounts for different identities and use whichever you like Mar 04 12:17:09 you can also make those accounts look at the same server/username but they will slow mail fetching. Mar 04 12:17:17 since they will all retrieve mail. Mar 04 12:17:39 hm, so ONE workaround means to have a dummy pop3 locally Mar 04 12:17:43 If you disable mail fetching for all of them then it will ok, but at some cases (sending failed) you may need to do a "send&receive" which will most probably cause mails to be fetched Mar 04 12:18:21 well.. yes.. but storing sent mails on imap... i don't know if it can do that Mar 04 12:19:01 mh Mar 04 12:19:04 morning o: Mar 04 12:19:08 I could bcc myself Mar 04 12:19:19 but that's rather uglxy Mar 04 12:19:20 -x Mar 04 12:23:13 afternoon all Mar 04 12:35:32 satmd: i have the same problem Mar 04 12:36:04 satmd: there are two solutions: either modify modest/tinymail, or change the smtpd to put sent mails into imap :) Mar 04 12:37:53 oo Mar 04 12:38:00 nearly 200 apps in Moomo 5 extras Mar 04 12:38:42 Hi, is there any way to trigger custom vibration on Maemo 5? (except the MCE d-bus interface) Mar 04 12:40:35 Arif_: I didn't realize Nokia put cows on the n900. I thought they put Maemo the OS. Not Moomo the cows. :P Mar 04 12:40:51 xD Mar 04 12:41:01 Moomin 5 Mar 04 12:41:14 Stskeeps: Shut up troll ;) Mar 04 12:41:28 MooBox in Moomin Extras! Arf, arf! Mar 04 12:41:32 lol Mar 04 12:41:35 YoannL: /sys Mar 04 12:41:40 meh Mar 04 12:41:42 I woke up too early Mar 04 12:41:48 I could've slept for 20 more minutes! Mar 04 12:42:07 Whoever said #maemo had NORMAL users? Mar 04 12:42:17 norwhat? Mar 04 12:42:32 Exactly. Mar 04 12:42:33 :P Mar 04 12:42:36 oo Mar 04 12:42:43 Map Loader for Moomo devices is announced... Mar 04 12:43:19 Arif_: Fuck yeah, do I ever hate that. This morning I woke up like an hour too early and couldn't go back to sleep, grrr Mar 04 12:43:22 you know Mar 04 12:43:28 Moomin would be a lot cooler name for MeeGo. Mar 04 12:43:39 ++ Mar 04 12:44:14 DocScrutinizer: what about /sys ? Mar 04 12:44:17 Stskeeps - I think they are trying to market MeeGo to average users and businesses. Not baboons like us. Mar 04 12:44:24 :P Mar 04 12:44:31 * SpeedEvil eats a bananna. Mar 04 12:44:31 MooGoo? Mar 04 12:44:52 hmm Mar 04 12:44:52 YoannL: there's a vibrator node somewhere, you can 'echo 100 >vib/brightness' Mar 04 12:45:07 * Arif_ thought of some improvements for the media player Mar 04 12:45:08 :D Mar 04 12:45:39 * SpeedEvil moves Arif_ to brainstorm. Mar 04 12:45:50 not that big :P Mar 04 12:46:07 just a "delete" and "send" option in the little playlist when you press the album art Mar 04 12:46:13 and when you press back ont he upper right Mar 04 12:46:18 the current playing song is selected Mar 04 12:46:24 instead of just going to the top Mar 04 12:46:49 * Arif_ misses that from S60 Mar 04 12:48:12 would andre__ hit me with a brick if I added those as enhancement bugs? :P Mar 04 12:48:49 either that, or brainstorm if it's non-trivial Mar 04 12:49:20 if brainstorm is used for these kinds of small things Mar 04 12:49:24 I'd open one Mar 04 12:51:09 create a brainstorm: improve media player Mar 04 12:51:22 then add solutions for each of your enhancements Mar 04 12:52:05 * Arif_ goes looking for an existing brainstorm Mar 04 12:52:38 hi all Mar 04 12:54:04 X-Fade poke (I broke Extras again (C) ) Mar 04 12:54:07 ot question, nVidia GTX 275 or wait a while for a GTX 260? Mar 04 12:54:28 achipa: Tell me more :) Mar 04 12:54:40 lardman? Mar 04 12:55:00 silverbullet: I need a graphics card to try some CUDA stuff Mar 04 12:55:08 what do u mean *wait for a while* Mar 04 12:55:17 why wait Mar 04 12:55:22 just grab one Mar 04 12:55:24 the 260 is apparently delayed from the supplier Mar 04 12:55:31 aha Mar 04 12:56:03 X-Fade: somebody promoted an app (wifieye) depending on my lib (you-know-which), but the lib did not get promoted from testing -> broken apps in Extras Mar 04 12:56:08 275 has many more cores than 260 so get one if the additional dollars dont bother u much Mar 04 12:56:19 hmm, nice to see the nVidia page doesn't even realise their new gtx260s have 216 cores Mar 04 12:56:29 hehe Mar 04 12:56:32 achipa: Hmm let me check why it didn't get promoted then. Mar 04 12:56:33 prolly a side-effect of the qt blockade Mar 04 12:56:37 go for 275 Mar 04 12:56:57 achipa: no, should not. Mar 04 12:57:07 achipa: I made sure wifieye worked on PR1.2 Mar 04 12:57:20 silverbullet: 260 is supposed to be a downgraded 280 (due to dodgy cores, etc.), was wondering if the 280/260 arch is better than the 275 Mar 04 12:57:46 achipa: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/wifieye/0.5.0-1/ Mar 04 12:58:04 i am pretty sure thats not the case that 260 is going to be better than 275 Mar 04 12:58:34 yeah I wouldn't think so, but was just wondering Mar 04 12:58:37 X-Fade: yep, but the python2.5-qt4-* deps did not get promoted Mar 04 12:58:49 achipa: Interface shows them? Mar 04 12:59:52 X-Fade: ah, I think I see the problem - when I click on the dep, I get the package that was erased from Extras Mar 04 13:00:56 maybe the dep checker 'accepted' that as a valid package so did not pull in the newer ones currently in testing Mar 04 13:01:35 achipa: hmm yeah, need to check if it looks at the 'deleted' status. Mar 04 13:02:02 achipa: But let me push the packages into extras manually. Mar 04 13:03:23 X-Fade: ok... just be careful as it's a multi-package... umm... package (so we don't shoot ourselves in the foot when the remaining python2.5-qt4-* packages get promoted) Mar 04 13:03:30 achipa: the maemo7 versions work on PR1.2 at least. Mar 04 13:05:30 X-Fade: yay ! :) It might be good to have it *fully* in PR1.1 Extras too, otherwise dep-funk could ensue Mar 04 13:05:37 * Arif_ wobbles off to uni Mar 04 13:05:42 would someone like to activate my extras-devel uploading request ;) Or should I just wait? Mar 04 13:06:32 Shapeshifter: lol, 2 minutes response time ;) Mar 04 13:07:08 achipa: that would be me :-) Mar 04 13:08:02 X-Fade: :D Mar 04 13:08:04 thanks Mar 04 13:09:20 bbl Mar 04 13:10:34 V13: hi there :) there is some fallout from my previous 'I borked Extras' episode, but nothing serious :) Mar 04 13:11:12 I also show that pyqt was not promoted but I thought it was just the interface that lagged. Mar 04 13:11:40 http://wejp.k.vu/category/ben-nanonote cute tiny tiny linux clamshell Mar 04 13:15:23 this whole build system is well interesting... Mar 04 13:16:33 V13: long story short - there was a version of pyqt in extras that got deleted, but the promotion mechanism might have not be aware (of the deleted status) so it did not promote the version from testing Mar 04 13:16:57 oh... let's shoot the promotion mechanism :-) Mar 04 13:17:45 i guess this is a custom made mechanism, because debian would go the opposite way: wifieye would be promoted when all its dependencies were promoted. Mar 04 13:18:20 btw, isn't there any karma for developing apps ? Mar 04 13:19:04 V13, there is i think...but they need to be in extras to get karma Mar 04 13:19:14 Is it possible to force maemo's media player app to re-scan my memory card for music? Mar 04 13:19:17 zaheerm... well.. i don't get :) Mar 04 13:19:28 V13: Takes up to 2 days. Mar 04 13:19:32 for some reason it can't see any since I installed the extra decoders Mar 04 13:19:32 oh! Mar 04 13:19:46 x-fade: thanks Mar 04 13:20:32 mhh. So, why exactly did this fail? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/alarmed_0.1.3-1/i386.root.log.FAILED.txt I made the tar.gz, dsc and .changes files using py2deb. Apart from the gpg issue I don't really see what's wrong. Mar 04 13:21:29 Shapeshifter: missing dependencies? Mar 04 13:21:44 V13: the dependencies are: python2.5, pyside-qt4-base, pyside-qt4-core, pyside-qt4-maemo5, pyside-qt4-gui Mar 04 13:21:57 build-dep Mar 04 13:21:59 Shapeshifter: build-depends? Mar 04 13:23:07 X-Fade: mhh, I followed the Py2deb wikipage. it doesn't say anything about build-depends. And my app doesn't need any, it's python Mar 04 13:23:32 odd the log doesnt show the missing build dep Mar 04 13:24:16 Shapeshifter: you *NEED* build-depends even for python Mar 04 13:24:47 Shapeshifter: they should list dependencies needed for constructing the debian package Mar 04 13:24:56 Shapeshifter: so you need to at least put "python" there Mar 04 13:25:01 achipa: core and gui promoted, now waiting for things to catch up. Mar 04 13:25:37 lizardo: so, python2.5 is not enough, I also need python in build depends? Mar 04 13:26:00 Shapeshifter: did you put "Build-Depends: python2.5" ? Mar 04 13:26:45 lizardo: no, I used py2deb and it doesn't say anything about that. But I'll find out how to add build-depends using py2deb Mar 04 13:26:50 thanks Mar 04 13:27:27 Shapeshifter: now looking at your source... I don't think this is the case Mar 04 13:27:40 X-Fade: (Y), but there is an indirect dep, too: -common Mar 04 13:28:40 achipa: Got auto promoted. Mar 04 13:28:41 lizardo: I used this thing: http://wiki.maemo.org/Py2deb#Setup_the_build_myapp.py_code and there I listed the dependencies and stuff. build-depends doesn't appear in the wiki, but I guess there's some p.build_depends or so for it. Mar 04 13:28:48 achipa: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/python2.5-qt4-common/4.7-maemo7/ Mar 04 13:28:54 Shapeshifter: now I see... your source package looks buggy Mar 04 13:29:20 Shapeshifter: intead of unpacking to a "alarmed-0.1" directory, it unpacks the debian and src directories directly Mar 04 13:30:02 X-Fade: great. What about the other packages ? I guess they won't be promotable either before PR1.2 ? Mar 04 13:30:02 Shapeshifter: can you pastebin your py2deb configuration ? Mar 04 13:30:18 Shapeshifter: *note* use something like http://pastebin.com Mar 04 13:30:21 achipa: Which ones? Mar 04 13:31:24 hi, python-location is in extras-testing, but does not appear in the extras-testing list(http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/) Mar 04 13:31:37 So, no tester can see it and vote for it..... Mar 04 13:31:38 the, umm, rest... -network, -gl, -sql, etc etc Mar 04 13:31:42 Tahitibob35: That is because it is not a user package. Mar 04 13:31:46 ok Mar 04 13:31:52 Tahitibob35: you shouldn't vote for non user packages Mar 04 13:32:11 thx Mar 04 13:32:14 Tahitibob35: non-user packages get promoted automatically with user apps. Mar 04 13:32:29 for now ;) Mar 04 13:33:05 achipa: It depends, if an app depends on -network ( >= 4.7-maemo7) they will. Mar 04 13:33:35 X-Fade: I already have 2 user/* packages in testing that are just waiting for enough t-ups (the python2.5-qt4 which depends on all, and the -doc which is also a demo) Mar 04 13:33:59 X-Fade: trouble is people often omit versions in the deps Mar 04 13:34:26 achipa: Yeah, but this will be fixed with the maintainer interface anyway. Mar 04 13:34:49 achipa: As I committed to for this Sprint. Mar 04 13:35:09 X-Fade: cool Mar 04 13:35:25 ok, so off I go to lobby for testers :) Mar 04 13:35:59 achipa: Still not sure if python2.5-qt4 should be a user app. Mar 04 13:36:27 achipa: It is ugly and good at the same time ;) Mar 04 13:36:49 X-Fade: it's a borderline case, I admit, but I do think there are more pros than cons Mar 04 13:37:55 X-Fade: BTW have you read my mail to the testingsquad list ? regarding how multi-package promotions can cause dependency hell ? Mar 04 13:38:34 lizardo: http://pastie.org/853422 this is the build_alarmed.py as I used it for the failed build. I now tried adding p.build_depends but ran into other problems. I'm looking for solutions atm. Mar 04 13:38:38 achipa: no, sorry i'm not on that list. Probably should though. Mar 04 13:39:01 lizardo: well, build was 1 for the initial release, not 2 as I made it now. Mar 04 13:39:41 X-Fade: okay, in short: wifi eye got maemo7 versions of common, core and gui promoted to extras Mar 04 13:40:11 X-Fade: now, I upload a maemo8 version, and FooApp get promoted, but it uses common, core and network Mar 04 13:40:31 achipa: Once the admin interface is there, the maintainer of the lib plans promotion. Mar 04 13:41:01 X-Fade: ok, If you say it solves this problem, I believe you :) Mar 04 13:41:06 achipa: So you can push your versions in at a certain time. And people using your libs need to wait for them to be available. Mar 04 13:41:14 achipa: send important mails to -developers :) Mar 04 13:41:35 mikkov: okay, okay :) Mar 04 13:41:59 achipa: Current setup is just so that most simple promotions work without having a lot of people working on it. Mar 04 13:42:46 achipa: Something needed to be in place quickly before fremantle release. Now we can improve on that. Mar 04 13:43:05 javispedro: could you upload sdlgles to extras-devel Mar 04 13:43:58 achipa: what you mentioned can be solved by making your packages depend on exact versions of each other. This way, if you put maemo8 in testing and an app that depends on that is promoted, then this one will cause other maemo8 packages to be promoted replacing maemo7. No? Mar 04 13:45:45 V13: not with the current scheme (that's the problem, it's not apt), but X-Fade says the new admin UI will solve this, so, fingers crossed :) Mar 04 13:46:05 oh. Mar 04 13:46:58 achipa: We now promote minimal dependencies, out of ease. It should be the other way around, but that only works if there are active maintainers for these dependencies. Mar 04 13:47:36 achipa: And we don't have that for a large number of dependencies atm. Mar 04 13:48:28 yeah, (py)qt is a bit of an icebreaker in that regard as it's one of the few packages that has an extensive dependency net... Mar 04 13:48:56 the promoter use about the same logic as Application Manager for updates which is good Mar 04 13:49:28 the logic is not good though :) Mar 04 13:49:51 Most people upload a lib because they need it, but not want to maintain it. Mar 04 13:49:56 This is what makes it hard. Mar 04 13:50:32 Shapeshifter: as I said, I don't think anymore it is related to build-depends Mar 04 13:50:46 Shapeshifter: it is something to do with the .tar.gz tarball generation Mar 04 13:52:20 lizardo: mhh. what's missing? Mar 04 13:52:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLsN92YPRDs pretty use of accelerometer in a Nintendo DSi game Mar 04 13:52:47 X-Fade, a community solution to that problem, like the bugsquad - but a small group of people who watch the community ports might be an idea Mar 04 13:53:06 Shapeshifter: I think the tarball is slightly broken (not sure if it is py2deb fault or something missing on your py2deb .py file) Mar 04 13:53:13 Shapeshifter: note that I never used py2deb Mar 04 13:53:17 lcuk: Yeah, you need some community maintainers for packages. Mar 04 13:53:39 lizardo: mhh. Mar 04 13:53:42 I hope to create the tools for that. Mar 04 13:54:10 X-Fade, of course cool Mar 04 13:55:00 Shapeshifter: hmmm, I think my guess was wrong ... just tried unpack your sources and they unpacked fine Mar 04 13:55:46 Shapeshifter: but trying to build it by hand gave: Mar 04 13:55:47 dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in control file debian/control at line 13: continued value line not in field Mar 04 13:56:15 Shapeshifter: looking at that error line, I see that your package description is broken Mar 04 13:56:36 Shapeshifter: it has a spuprious newline Mar 04 13:56:54 Shapeshifter: try removing the \n's from lines 23,24,25 Mar 04 13:57:18 Shapeshifter: (Python adds those newlines automatically, so you don't need to add them) Mar 04 13:57:48 Shapeshifter: either that, or put everything under a single line Mar 04 13:57:58 Shapeshifter: as used on the Py2Deb documentation Mar 04 14:01:51 removing only the \ns didn't work. trying a single line now. Mar 04 14:02:23 Hi there guys.. Mar 04 14:03:29 I want to Wipe my N900... and I found a Nokia support thread that explain how to do it... it suggest to reflash both: Firmware and 32Gb part... Mar 04 14:04:04 I'm just confused on what firmware should I pick... the US version or the Global one?? Mar 04 14:04:33 well, where are you, fzfq3m? Mar 04 14:04:45 since I don't live in the US, I picked the global version Mar 04 14:04:49 My N900 keyboard is us US I guess Mar 04 14:04:55 keyboard doesn't matter Mar 04 14:05:05 actually I'm not sure what exactly differs between those versions Mar 04 14:05:16 mgedmin: That´s what I'm thinking but I wanted to be sure Mar 04 14:06:28 A last question: Should I Flash firmware image firts and then flash the eMMC content image after, or what? Mar 04 14:07:21 also a good question Mar 04 14:07:25 fzfq3m: doesn't matter if you don't boot in between flashes. Mar 04 14:07:28 that's what I did Mar 04 14:07:35 I even booted between flashes Mar 04 14:07:40 but it seemed to turn out all right anyway Mar 04 14:08:14 mgedmin: Yes, but if you flash emmc first, boot and then flash firmware. The emmc isn't entirely clean anymore. Mar 04 14:08:28 Thanks guys... I will follow X-Fade suggestion Mar 04 14:08:29 It just depends on how factory default you want it ;) Mar 04 14:09:00 All asuming you are flashing the same versions you are already runnning. Mar 04 14:09:12 lizardo: nope, still failing, even with everything on one line without any newlines. Mar 04 14:09:41 Shapeshifter: tried lintian against the source package? Mar 04 14:09:48 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/alarmed_0.1.3-1/ http://pastie.org/853468 <- build_alarmed.py Mar 04 14:09:58 X-Fade: lintian? Mar 04 14:11:13 Shapeshifter: it might be failing with something else now Mar 04 14:11:39 Shapeshifter: but the original error was certainly because of the newlines (as I paste the error for you) Mar 04 14:11:44 X-Fade: I will use RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin (Global version), and want to have my N900 completely clean... a mean factory settings Mar 04 14:11:45 lizardo: okay Mar 04 14:12:22 fzfq3m: That is fine, just make sure you flash the emmc too then. Mar 04 14:12:54 X-Fade: looks like the sbmock is not saving all the errors ... if you look at Shapeshifter's build log, the one marked as FAILED is not what failed actually Mar 04 14:12:55 sure: For that i will use RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Am I right?? Mar 04 14:13:15 X-Fade: it failing at the very beginning of "dpkg-buildpackage" Mar 04 14:13:36 lizardo: I'm thinking missing make or configure or something like that? Mar 04 14:14:14 X-Fade: no... the first error was a debian/control syntax error, but sbdmock and/or autobuilder scripts didn't pick it up Mar 04 14:14:39 X-Fade: instead there was only a "root.FAILED" log wich actually does not contain any error message Mar 04 14:15:27 Shapeshifter: Last build still had newlines in your control file. Mar 04 14:15:29 X-Fade: so at some point I understand why Shapeshifter was not noticing the error just by looking at the autobuilder failed logs :) Mar 04 14:15:56 lizardo: Yeah, I'm not sure why dpkb-buildpackage doesn't show an error. Mar 04 14:16:17 X-Fade: running "dpkg-buildpackage" locally returned the error Mar 04 14:16:20 Shapeshifter: And your bugtracker field is broken too. Mar 04 14:17:00 Shapeshifter: Are you sure you are using the latest py2deb? Khertan fixed that bug iirc. Mar 04 14:17:21 X-Fade: my guess: sbdmock first tries to get the build depends assuming the debian/control file syntax is ok Mar 04 14:17:33 X-Fade: so it in fact ignores the stderr of that command Mar 04 14:18:02 lizardo: My guess is that the control file only has 5 lines. Mar 04 14:18:06 X-Fade: so it is failing between the rootstrap setup and the build dependency installation, and sbdmock does not save logs for that... Mar 04 14:18:12 lizardo: As it stops after the \n\n Mar 04 14:18:38 X-Fade: yes, I know that. I'm just pointing that the autobuilder logs are not recording that Mar 04 14:19:04 lizardo: I'd have to ask Ed. Mar 04 14:19:04 X-Fade: and given that it is all that uncommon to insert syntax errors on debian/control, it would be nice to try to get those errors Mar 04 14:19:19 "all that" -> "not all that" Mar 04 14:22:10 where (a forum, channel, et cetera) is the best place to ask N900 "user" question (e.g. Is there a way to snap contacts on the desktop to a grid?) Mar 04 14:22:56 mmgcs: use tweakr Mar 04 14:27:25 mmgcs, here, I think Mar 04 14:28:22 achipa: ping Mar 04 14:28:35 V13: pong Mar 04 14:28:50 I've a pyqt related q in case you know... Mar 04 14:28:58 may be qt only though. Mar 04 14:29:05 shoot Mar 04 14:29:32 I've a sample mainwindow and it shows a dialog... now everything is ok, unless I do this for the mainwindow: self.setStyleSheet(""" """). Then the dialog is messed up Mar 04 14:29:34 though, if it's qt, more qt hats in #qt-maemo Mar 04 14:29:49 mmgcs, snapping to grid exists, but the grid is 4x4 pixels ... Mar 04 14:30:12 X-Fade: mhh, it's the newest version apparently. Mar 04 14:30:15 yep, qt thing :) Pyqt just wraps, does not interfere with what qt does Mar 04 14:30:22 mmgcs, you can change the grid size by editing (as root) some file somewhere Mar 04 14:30:24 yeah... thanks anyway. Mar 04 14:31:02 recommendation stands: ask in #qt-maemo Mar 04 14:31:12 mmgcs, it's described here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5372 Mar 04 14:31:13 Bug 5372: Can't easily align desktop widgets (snap to position) on home screens Mar 04 14:31:30 achipa: I will Mar 04 14:37:21 you can set the right frob in the config file and it works Mar 04 14:37:26 40 pix is about right IMO Mar 04 14:46:11 Stskeeps: Its my time to bug you again Mar 04 14:46:52 * Stskeeps ponders idly when his wife comes home Mar 04 14:47:40 AndrewFBlack: going to look at it now, i don't have anything better to do Mar 04 14:48:21 Stskeeps: I'm sure their is always something better to do but I wont complain about you looking at it :) Mar 04 15:02:22 AndrewFBlack: right, so theme creation is your theme package together with tools (hildon-theme-tools) and layout package (hildon-theme-layout-5) Mar 04 15:03:44 or sec.. Mar 04 15:05:29 lizardo, X-Fade: thanks guys for the help. I guess I did some stupid thing because the file I uploaded didn't have the changes (removed newlines) that I did put in my source file... Anyway, it built OK now :) Mar 04 15:05:50 Shapeshifter: Heh, well at least it worked now :) Mar 04 15:06:58 ok, so you'll need to fork hildon-theme-layout-5, like hildon-theme-layout-5-afb, and alter the rc/base.rc file in there to point to a new gtk-icon-theme-name.. and then ask Meizirkki how he made a icon theme.. that icon theme has to inherit from 'hicolor' Mar 04 15:07:23 and then you point your theme to build-depend on hildon-theme-layout-5-afb instead and depend on your new icon theme Mar 04 15:07:35 that's roughly how you do it Mar 04 15:08:19 Stskeeps: Sounds easy ;) Mar 04 15:09:37 Stskeeps: ok Mar 04 15:10:02 i hoped i could include it in the theme template but it looks like the original template prevents me from doing so. Mar 04 15:10:10 er, original layout Mar 04 15:14:23 reading all that makes me want to do it like I did it back in the Diablo days and just build package my self after I cut theme apart to just include the icon files in the new package. Keeps from me from making a new layout and template Mar 04 15:16:19 basiclly what I did in daiblo days was to build theme to have template cut apart and all files generated, then I unpacked .deb and added icon files and modified theme files. Then used py2deb to build source package again then upload. Mar 04 15:17:06 yeah, i'm trying to figure out if there's a better way Mar 04 15:18:02 Mhh. But for some reason my alarmed.py doesn't have o+x. the one I've put in the package. Do I have to care about file permissions upon packaging? Mar 04 15:20:36 should you format your cdcard when it previously have been in a s60(n82)? Mar 04 15:21:28 I still like my idea > http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45964 that gives you a program that lets you customize your theme one peice at a time. Mar 04 15:24:51 AndrewFBlack: if you can, try out to make /usr/share/icons/themename/ and mimic the structure in /usr/share/icons/hicolor Mar 04 15:26:08 Stskeeps: ok Mar 04 15:26:43 AndrewFBlack: it might actually pick up those icons first Mar 04 15:27:16 if it does, we can do tricks directly in the template Mar 04 15:27:49 I don't know about in maemo5 but on diablo it would pick on the in theme named folder first and any missing ones it would revert to /hicolor Mar 04 15:28:45 yeah, let's see if this still exists Mar 04 15:29:44 going to have to wait til I get home don't have network access on my n900 at work to ssh into it. Mar 04 15:30:43 stupid company network requires me to enroll my root cert to get on work network so only windows Mar 04 15:39:11 AndrewFBlack: what's your scheme? EAP-TLS? Mar 04 15:40:53 ptl? Mar 04 15:41:02 ptl: ? Mar 04 15:43:44 AndrewFBlack: for the network in your job, that forces you to enroll Mar 04 15:43:58 ptl: not sure what you mean by scheme? Mar 04 15:45:26 is there an option in MfE to go back to the Inbox (or source folder) after deleting an email (from the email reading screen) - as opposed to it moving to the next email? Mar 04 15:45:30 authentication schema Mar 04 15:45:37 LEAP, EAP-TLS, PEAP and so on Mar 04 15:46:07 mmgcs: MfE isn't a mail app Mar 04 15:46:10 it's a sync transport Mar 04 15:46:17 the mail app is modest, it's 100% open source Mar 04 15:46:22 and if you have issues w/ it, you can write patches Mar 04 15:46:27 which reminds me, i need to bug the devs Mar 04 15:46:28 ok, sorry, the mail app Mar 04 15:46:50 ptl: I'm not sure any idea how I find out? Mar 04 15:48:29 mmgcs: so, http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/modest/ is the source for the version we shipped in fremantle sales iirc Mar 04 15:48:29 ptl: looks like EAP Mar 04 15:48:51 timeless_mbp: thanks Mar 04 15:48:52 i have a cross reference of trunk somewhere too, because i wrote patch for it sometime this year, but i don't remember which xref hosts it Mar 04 15:48:52 AndrewFBlack: it seems to be EAP-TLS, by the need to 'enroll' your certificate. But N900 has support for EAP-TLS, so it should work Mar 04 15:49:15 source for modest? isn't it closed-source? Mar 04 15:49:25 (03:46:17 PM) timeless_mbp: the mail app is modest, it's 100% open source Mar 04 15:50:07 good, I didn't know that, I thought it followed the ways of the media player Mar 04 15:50:13 nope Mar 04 15:50:18 So, I still don't understand this. My app, alarmed.py, has 755 permissions on my machine. When I make the package using py2deb and then upload it to autobuilder, it makes the package allright, it goes to extras-devel, but after installation, the user can't launch it because it has 644 permissions... Mar 04 15:50:24 the mail team managed to get it right for their rewrite Mar 04 15:50:30 the browser team tried and failed Mar 04 15:50:35 Do I have to do something special to give the .py app proper permissions? Mar 04 15:50:44 ptl: http://gitorious.org/modest Mar 04 15:50:50 the media player team only tried to get the framework opened for fremantle, and i think they succeeded Mar 04 15:51:02 ptl: I think other problem I'm running into when I try to connect it is asking for WEP but I am told to tell device The Key is automatically provided but I don't think n900 has that option Mar 04 15:52:33 AndrewFBlack: that's because in windows mobile you do it this way... A very stupid way, I think. I still have an old Windows Mobile phone, it took me months to realize that you should tell it that the EAP-TLS is a 'WEP with automatically provided key' and configure the certificate elsewhere. Mar 04 15:52:49 AndrewFBlack: that was one of the less user-friendly interface issues I have ever found Mar 04 15:52:53 nevermind Mar 04 15:53:40 AndrewFBlack: that probably means you need to install the key manually first :) Mar 04 15:54:11 no, there's no key at all Mar 04 15:54:14 only the certificate Mar 04 15:54:23 s/key/cert/ Mar 04 15:54:24 timeless_mbp meant: AndrewFBlack: that probably means you need to install the cert manually first :) Mar 04 15:54:24 and its password Mar 04 15:57:42 chmod +x /home/user/MyDocs/alarmed/src/opt/alarmed/alarmed.py; ls -lah /home/user/MyDocs/alarmed/src/opt/alarmed/alarmed.py -> permissions are 644. Can stuff on the MyDocs partition not be +x? Mar 04 15:58:29 I installed Cert, setup connection with the SSID for the network, set it up as WPA with EAP and set EAP type as TLS still asks for WEP when I try to connect Mar 04 15:58:56 Shapeshifter: No. It is a vfat partition that doesn't support permissions. Mar 04 15:59:25 it does ask for a certificate during setup but none show their Mar 04 15:59:42 V13: okay. the py2dev tutorial is broken then ;) might fix it once I get this build working. it says I could put stuff in a MyDocs subdir and set permissions Mar 04 15:59:57 Perhaps it was referring to the SDK ? Mar 04 16:00:37 AndrewFBlack: what's the problem ? Mar 04 16:00:48 is it possible to set a file as a block device under MyDocs and format it as ext2/ext3 and mount as a loop device to get more executable stuff into the device? Mar 04 16:00:53 V13: actually it's quite specifically writte with people in mind who want to build the package on the n900 Mar 04 16:01:33 V13: trying to connect n900 to network that requires a root cert to be enrolled first Mar 04 16:01:43 enrolled ? Mar 04 16:02:08 ptl: I believe that's what easydebian does. Mar 04 16:02:12 ptl: btw it is EPA/TLS just read that on guide for windows mobile Mar 04 16:02:37 V13: yeah, but without booting into a new OS, just for a few extra executables :) Mar 04 16:02:47 AndrewFBlack: I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to do and what is your problem. Mar 04 16:03:05 ptl: I meant: If easydebian does it, then why not you ? Mar 04 16:03:11 AndrewFBlack: my job also supposedly supports EAP/TLS but I never got it to work, from the laptop, mobile or amything Mar 04 16:03:33 and I did get the .p12 certificate and such Mar 04 16:04:12 I think one thing is only option on n900 I see for EAP is WPA-with EAP but I need WEP with EAP Mar 04 16:04:54 I've EAP/TLS working so it can be done... BUT: It seems to have a bug with certificates that don't have a password. I couldn't make that work. Mar 04 16:05:04 WEP with EAP? Mar 04 16:06:06 I believe there is no such thing. Mar 04 16:06:53 Its the options they tell you use to use on Windows Mobile, trying to use my companys windows guide to connect n900 lol Mar 04 16:07:58 mmm Mar 04 16:08:00 pizza Mar 04 16:08:20 just ordered kfc Mar 04 16:08:21 and why must busses be so full between 16-18! Mar 04 16:08:46 rush hour :P Mar 04 16:08:54 meh Mar 04 16:08:59 AndrewFBlack: never mind about this "WEP" stuff, it's just windows mobile lame way of making that work Mar 04 16:09:16 I sat next to someone with loud music Mar 04 16:09:21 so I put mine louder than his :D Mar 04 16:11:02 announcement Mar 04 16:11:03 http://www.nokian900applications.com/meego-will-be-compatible-with-nokia-n900/ Mar 04 16:11:18 rumors! Mar 04 16:11:19 Meego will be compatible with the Nokia N900 Mar 04 16:11:22 wow. Mar 04 16:11:23 awwww Mar 04 16:11:38 damnit Mar 04 16:11:41 I so hoped it wouldn't be ;( Mar 04 16:11:42 it seems official Mar 04 16:11:54 lol Mar 04 16:11:57 it gave me an excuse to waste money on a new device :D Mar 04 16:12:41 ptl: http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/towards-day-one Mar 04 16:14:00 that's great news, I don't feel abandoned anymore. Mar 04 16:14:13 Maemo + Moblin = Meego, no? ;] Mar 04 16:14:27 pretty much Mar 04 16:14:41 Moblin, is it Debian-based? Mar 04 16:14:49 wonder my certificat is not showing up for me to select when setting up connection Mar 04 16:15:20 of course it will. Mar 04 16:15:33 arnor: no it is not. Mar 04 16:15:38 AndrewFBlack: was it a .p12 certificate? Mar 04 16:15:43 AndrewFBlack: mine has shown up Mar 04 16:15:48 AndrewFBlack: but the connection didn't work. Mar 04 16:15:56 I don't have the slightest idea why. Mar 04 16:16:00 Everything seemed ok. Mar 04 16:16:15 Anyone knows where can I see the logs for that? /var/log/messages? Mar 04 16:17:02 ptl: name of file is SoCo_Root_Certificate.cer Mar 04 16:17:35 .cer? Mar 04 16:18:06 I think you need a user certificate, a client certificate and a private key Mar 04 16:18:17 the .p12 file has all three in it Mar 04 16:18:28 .cer is just one certificate, in PEM format if I recall it correctly Mar 04 16:19:17 btw Mar 04 16:19:19 about this meego stuff Mar 04 16:19:28 is there someone here to whom I could say 'THANKS'? Mar 04 16:19:36 :P I am very happy about this. Mar 04 16:21:00 ptl: I think that is purpose of the enroll.exe file for windows mobile I think it gets the other certificates for you from network Mar 04 16:21:16 AndrewFBlack: oh, I see Mar 04 16:22:55 I guess I'm stuck getting a Windows Mobile PDA for use at work Mar 04 16:24:02 AndrewFBlack: if you get the three files (maybe from your windows mobile) and get someone who understands openssl and certificates to do it for you, you can generate a .p12 file to use in the N900. Mar 04 16:25:35 ptl: ok now just to find a windows mobile device that is overly expensive or a phone lol Mar 04 16:32:26 I wonder if I could get a SmartQ V7 to connect at work on Windows Ce Mar 04 16:48:56 question Mar 04 16:49:20 if I reformat the N900 to use a larger applications partition and a ext2 MyDocs partition, will it work? Mar 04 16:49:50 the camera wont Mar 04 16:49:54 depends, not out of the box Mar 04 16:50:05 camera problem can be fixed Mar 04 16:50:13 and wind00z wont read it :P Mar 04 16:50:23 (just permission problem) Mar 04 16:50:40 * cehteh reformated everything to ext3 meanwhile Mar 04 16:50:57 * Arif_ just leaves it as is :D Mar 04 16:51:05 tried ext4 .. which is almost double as fast! .. but needs custom kernel which may make problems Mar 04 16:51:40 you need to hack some scripts and configs to make reformatting work Mar 04 16:57:04 what's a goodies developer, kalikiana? Mar 04 16:57:20 cehteh: hack scripts and configs? wouldn't it break on each update? Mar 04 16:59:55 * Shapeshifter definetly needs to improve his uploading/testing cycle to extras-devel -.- Mar 04 17:00:24 is it possible to install maps over-the-air using the map application? Mar 04 17:00:51 putting the sources into a tar.gz, uploading them, downloading them on the n900, unpacking, running py2deb, uploading the results, downloading them on the laptop, uploading them to autobuilder from there, and installing it from the repo on the n900 after that is *somewhat* suboptimal >.> Mar 04 17:03:25 >.< Mar 04 17:06:38 has this Microsoft error reporting system been implemented with Maemo platform yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc4j3pEoMXY Mar 04 17:11:30 ptl: not on each, but yes can happen Mar 04 17:14:31 Haha Mar 04 17:17:39 ptl, goodies in Xfce are basically additions you may like but which are not needed for a base install Mar 04 17:18:11 and you can guess what a goodie developer does :-) Mar 04 17:28:44 kalikiana: ok :) Mar 04 17:34:36 i wonder if there is an adapter to plug in a 5.5" cable into the microphone input for guitar tuning :D Mar 04 17:34:56 i bet it would fry the soundchip Mar 04 17:36:34 For tuning - any mic will do Mar 04 17:38:14 aep: impedences are different Mar 04 17:38:17 otherwise it should work Mar 04 17:38:32 you want a "direct box" converter common in guitar live stage setups Mar 04 17:38:40 SpeedEvil: not really. either the tuning app sucks or putting the phone in the same room as the amp is not how it works Mar 04 17:39:58 besides you can't play on an amp on stage while tuning Mar 04 17:40:38 hmmmm any pulseaudio experts here? :D Mar 04 17:41:47 lucent: you sure i can plug it into a DI output? oO i though that would be 50 Ohm and with quite some power. Mar 04 17:42:07 i rather dont try. heh Mar 04 17:45:00 Rahhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!l! This QA Testing process will made me crazy ! Mar 04 17:45:07 I let my N900 fall from 20 stairs today... Mar 04 17:45:10 o.o Mar 04 17:45:15 Something will be made quickly to improve that ! Mar 04 17:45:22 ? Mar 04 17:45:29 this is borring ... Mar 04 17:45:33 harassing ! Mar 04 17:45:36 what's wrong with it :P Mar 04 17:45:40 and is stupid ! Mar 04 17:46:11 rules changes everytimes Mar 04 17:46:11 no one test Mar 04 17:46:11 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.14-1/ Mar 04 17:46:11 no vote Mar 04 17:46:15 this sucks ! really ! Mar 04 17:46:16 Arif_: better 20 stairs than 20 stories :) Mar 04 17:46:34 it seems that nothings wrong with it:D Mar 04 17:46:45 i i m furious .... Mar 04 17:47:03 fighting Mar 04 17:47:12 i tired of fightinh Mar 04 17:47:17 and will stop to try to make things available in extras ! Mar 04 17:47:46 making is own repository is far easier and quicker Mar 04 17:47:52 * Arif_ votes for it :P Mar 04 17:47:56 and putting a link in maemo with an install file is easy Mar 04 17:48:06 Khertan: qa is there for a reason Mar 04 17:48:19 to not let buggy sw get into extras Mar 04 17:48:45 currently i pass more time trying to publish things than fixing bug Mar 04 17:48:45 stskeeps: false ! Mar 04 17:49:11 Khertan: no, not false Mar 04 17:49:23 where is the QA process documented? Mar 04 17:49:32 Arif_: 20 stairs? You mean 20 steps, isn't it? Do you have any kind of protective case? Mar 04 17:49:39 * cehteh just doesnt care .. i write what i use myself :P Mar 04 17:49:43 yes, and no Mar 04 17:49:50 i find it much easier to submit my package to autobuilder Mar 04 17:50:15 than to create own repo Mar 04 17:50:24 Khertan have you considered Ovi! Mar 04 17:50:30 hey guys Mar 04 17:50:34 quick qeustion Mar 04 17:50:39 setting up a repo is trivial compared to fighting the autobuilder Mar 04 17:50:48 and extras process Mar 04 17:50:54 if there are contacts in SIM Mar 04 17:50:59 does the n900 show them by default? Mar 04 17:51:19 or have an option to only show these SIM contacts? Mar 04 17:51:33 you can import them to the addressbook .. iirc it doesnt show then, but i am not sure Mar 04 17:51:50 i know you can import them Mar 04 17:51:56 [18:50] currently i pass more time trying to publish things than fixing bugn[18:50] stskeeps: false !n[18:50] it s just here to force dev to create their own repositoryn[18:51] and as i said it doesn t help as the time i pass to pusblish things isn t time use to implement new feature and fix bugs Mar 04 17:52:05 well i did that once and never cared again :P Mar 04 17:52:06 lol khertan, i'm testing it now :) - been using it all day :D Mar 04 17:52:07 just happened when i was abroad i wanted to see just the contacts on the sim Mar 04 17:52:10 there was no way Mar 04 17:52:13 i had to import Mar 04 17:52:16 which took 15 mins :\ Mar 04 17:52:49 the sim was specific to that country, i just wanted to see the contact/number to show credit Mar 04 17:52:56 but had to import the entire sim entries Mar 04 17:53:35 Or maybe i should just made one app .... an installer that will download and install my apps ... will be easier and pass this -4_5#6(7 qa test Mar 04 17:53:57 submit a package that just adds your repo :) Mar 04 17:54:28 ali1234. yep this is the idea Mar 04 17:54:30 i did once consider making a package that would do that Mar 04 17:54:51 but since i would have to add first the repo to get my package, it was chicken and egg situation Mar 04 17:55:06 but with an ui as you can t put package without ui in user/section Mar 04 17:55:23 you can if you run your own repo Mar 04 17:55:27 as elsewhere it will be refuse in qa test Mar 04 17:55:40 the state of extras is pretty bad Mar 04 17:55:50 clearly ... this sucks Mar 04 17:55:53 :) Mar 04 17:55:59 there QA process is totally wrong, and so all the good apps are stuck in testing and devel Mar 04 17:56:16 lol awww thankee venom for voting up healthcheck - bet it will get rejected due to the bugtracker in the end though :( Mar 04 17:56:38 now i can understand why sio2interactive cheat on the qa process Mar 04 17:56:45 first thing i have to do after reflashing N900 is add a bunch of repos to it Mar 04 17:58:09 maybe we should do a developper league to vote between us for others app ! Mar 04 17:58:33 or should we create our own repository ... and publish our app exclusively on it ... forcing users which want usefull app force them to add our repository Mar 04 18:00:23 Ah, what a nice little conversation here. Mar 04 18:02:52 i think that might take jailbreaking your n900 :) Mar 04 18:03:27 [18:59] maybe we should do a developper league to vote between us for others app !n[19:00] or should we create our own repository ... and publish our app exclusively on it ... forcing users which want usefull app force them to add our repositoryn[19:01] ~ping Mar 04 18:04:09 what is the shortcut for autocomplete with xchat? Mar 04 18:04:10 ... still no one pointed me out how QA works .. Mar 04 18:04:45 ~ping Mar 04 18:04:46 ~pong Mar 04 18:04:48 Pillum: ctrl-space here .. but i think i configured it... Mar 04 18:05:08 somewhere, forgotten where :) Mar 04 18:05:09 yeah....seems so Mar 04 18:05:20 grrr since the tempest the 3g network coverage is really bad Mar 04 18:05:21 for me it is changing input language Mar 04 18:05:54 Pillum: settings->advacned->.. Mar 04 18:06:13 yes someone told that to me Mar 04 18:06:25 it says "tab" Mar 04 18:06:37 which one is the tabulator? :) Mar 04 18:06:38 yeah you have no tab key Mar 04 18:06:58 i remapped the tab to shift space .. bit strangely that didnt worked on xchat Mar 04 18:07:06 So does there is other dev by making/using a common repository ? Mar 04 18:07:07 (but works in emacs :P) Mar 04 18:07:26 So does there is other dev interested by making/using a common repository ? Mar 04 18:07:51 kFurious4: i would if i had useful software to share Mar 04 18:08:29 ooo GeneralAntilles spoke and my mirc died.... odd :| Mar 04 18:08:38 * Pillum jumps Mar 04 18:08:42 * n00bmonk3y blinks Mar 04 18:08:54 :( Mar 04 18:08:58 :D Mar 04 18:09:12 Pillum: you can define your favorite shortcut for it Mar 04 18:09:29 yeah i know Mar 04 18:09:57 but there was already a preconfigured one Mar 04 18:09:58 and it worked Mar 04 18:10:11 yes? Mar 04 18:10:22 but i dont know it.... Mar 04 18:11:08 and the keyboard shortcuts dont work either Mar 04 18:11:09 kFurious4: there are a couple out thee Mar 04 18:14:53 mhm ... works for me Mar 04 18:15:27 kFurious4, yeah, it's called Extras. . . . Mar 04 18:16:04 haha Mar 04 18:17:21 GeneralAntilles it s will be called Extras Plus Mar 04 18:17:29 or Better Extras Mar 04 18:17:53 or maybe Extras with apps in it Mar 04 18:18:05 If you have issues with the QA process, address the QA process. Mar 04 18:18:08 ExtraExtras :) Mar 04 18:18:21 Hahaha are you serious Mar 04 18:18:36 QA is all about guarding that all bugtracker links are following thre rules (yes, there is rules) Mar 04 18:19:19 who take the decision on this rules ? Mar 04 18:19:36 maybe maemo should attract packagers additionally to developers .. i feel it always pita to package things Mar 04 18:19:39 who ever happens to write to the wiki page Mar 04 18:20:17 everyone has a hand in deciding the qa rules, if you want to change them, propose changes. Mar 04 18:20:48 i ve add my think in the discussion of the pagbe Mar 04 18:20:50 s/think/thought Mar 04 18:20:56 nowadays rules are mostly changes without proposing or agreeing anything Mar 04 18:20:56 cehteh specially when rules changs Mar 04 18:21:25 kFurious4: i just ignore rules :P Mar 04 18:21:27 Hmmm question on bugrtracking.... Mar 04 18:21:35 My bugtracker is set as - p.xsbc_bugtracker="http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453" Mar 04 18:21:37 and without any warning Mar 04 18:21:50 yest the link is pointing at - xsbc-bugtracker:%20http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453 Mar 04 18:22:17 i m just tired Mar 04 18:22:24 quote from the GPL: "This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful," Mar 04 18:22:38 any ideas peeps? Mar 04 18:22:51 and feeling that the "community" is now clearly dislocked Mar 04 18:22:52 .. when i write free software then i think it is useful, if others disagree its not my problem Mar 04 18:23:35 cehteh: currently i ll just stop any developpment Mar 04 18:23:47 just doing things for me without publishing it Mar 04 18:23:49 n00bmonk3y, sure you don't just want a Bugzilla product? Mar 04 18:25:04 Hmmm, to be honest i'm not that thrilled with it, hard enough to learn linux, QT, Python and everything else.... Searched for over an hour on "How to create a bug Tracker" and there isn't one simple guide.... so read the QA process and it said nothing against using a forum post :) - of which i prefer - less logins, and less confusion for me :P Mar 04 18:25:05 ~ping Mar 04 18:25:07 ~pong Mar 04 18:25:10 kFurious4: well thats bad too .. no way to publish and annonce it at least.. but dont care about the rest? Mar 04 18:25:40 put it on some server out there, announce it on tmo .. done Mar 04 18:25:52 n00bmonk3y, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products Mar 04 18:25:56 i ve already stop to read tmo Mar 04 18:26:10 since the announce of the n900 Mar 04 18:26:20 stopping reading it doesnt prevent you from posting there :P Mar 04 18:26:28 would help if that was linked on the autobuilder - or actually anywhere lol :P Mar 04 18:26:34 thanks though Mar 04 18:26:58 lol! - i have to send an email to do it.... Mar 04 18:27:01 to create a product in bmo send an email Mar 04 18:27:06 thats just an extra annoyancy lol Mar 04 18:27:22 to create a new version im the product list send an email Mar 04 18:27:31 this isn t serious ! Mar 04 18:27:33 i'm sure i'm annoying testers, but... aghhhh thats not a well thought out, easy/user friendly process :( Mar 04 18:27:42 * cehteh didnt looked into the intended publishing process Mar 04 18:27:51 meh, gonna try n fix the forum link i think Mar 04 18:28:23 but i'm not gonna be able to stop it pointing at the wrong place am i ? :( Mar 04 18:29:01 and of course i think that with meego it ll be worse and more complicated Mar 04 18:29:23 dunno maybe its even easier Mar 04 18:29:24 ooo intruiging... not using a debian control file - using autobuilder Mar 04 18:29:37 cehteh: with rpm ! Mar 04 18:29:39 so this line - p.xsbc_bugtracker="http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453" should work - and it isn't :( Mar 04 18:29:44 really ! Mar 04 18:30:01 n00bmonk3y, it's not difficult. Mar 04 18:30:04 Khertan: i dont care .. I release software as source and hope for someone packaging it :) Mar 04 18:30:06 p.xsbc_bugtracker ? are you using pypackager ? Mar 04 18:30:08 it is :( Mar 04 18:30:20 n00bmonk3y, an email will take you all of 5 minutes Mar 04 18:30:20 erm using build_***.py method Mar 04 18:30:24 and your users will thank you. Mar 04 18:30:34 not really, the testers will Mar 04 18:30:38 GeneralAntilles: are you doing packaging yourself ? Mar 04 18:30:40 but thats their prefferred method Mar 04 18:30:43 having extra logins etc Mar 04 18:30:44 can i play sound clips to people over phone? Mar 04 18:30:57 Khertan, why is that relevant? I'm talking about adding a product to bugzilla. Mar 04 18:31:59 i find myself in an odd position of not wanting to use all the developer tools... (Not really a developer tbh.....) and much prefer the talk.maemo awy of keep up to date, but its just a personal preference Mar 04 18:32:30 if it was all simple, with one log in, and done in english, might change my mind... Just way to complicated for Joe-Bloggs the newbie.... Mar 04 18:32:40 * GeneralAntilles shrugs. Mar 04 18:32:43 :) Mar 04 18:32:45 hehe Mar 04 18:32:45 Development isn't really a simple thing. Mar 04 18:32:55 well, the coding bit was easy then the publishing bit ;) Mar 04 18:32:55 If you have questions, ask. Mar 04 18:33:02 easier* Mar 04 18:33:14 People have different skill sets. Mar 04 18:33:15 but then i am doing a simple tool i suppose ;) Mar 04 18:33:22 i'm good at eating if that helps? lol ;) Mar 04 18:33:35 wb khert Mar 04 18:34:14 19:32] Khertan, why is that relevant? I'm talking about adding a product to bugzilla.n[19:33] because each time you made new version / package you need to add a new product version in the bugtracker ... so send a email and wait !n[19:34] wait ... wait ... wait ... Mar 04 18:34:50 :( if it was automated it would make life alot easier :) Mar 04 18:35:03 autobuilder - add product.... Retruns, your new bug tracker is... xxx Mar 04 18:35:07 this is far from the spirit .... release as often possible ... fix it as often possible Mar 04 18:35:09 khertan2, or ping me here. Mar 04 18:35:09 returns* Mar 04 18:35:19 khertan2, unfortunately this is the reality with our old bugzilla install Mar 04 18:35:26 Karsten should have 3.4 up by the end of the month, however. Mar 04 18:35:32 which is probably why i'm prefering talk.maemo.org Mar 04 18:35:41 which hasn't been discounted by the QA process Mar 04 18:36:13 it just wont let me put the link in without adding xsbc-bugtracker: in front of it :( Mar 04 18:36:22 n00bmonk3y : not yet Mar 04 18:36:32 not yet to which bit? lol Mar 04 18:36:47 n00bmonkey are you using pypackager ? Mar 04 18:36:51 or py2deb ? Mar 04 18:37:02 but the 20 mins i spent talking on here i coulda sorted the problem out... instead i'm strill trying to figure it out lol :P Mar 04 18:37:18 erm, the auto builder one that uses build_***.py method lol Mar 04 18:37:30 ah ok sorry Mar 04 18:37:35 is that the packager? Mar 04 18:37:42 sorry did it a few weeks ago, and just automate it now Mar 04 18:37:47 n00bmonk3y: py2deb that is. Mar 04 18:37:53 ahhh cheers Shapeshifter Mar 04 18:38:03 that bit works well :D Mar 04 18:38:11 * Shapeshifter used it today the first time Mar 04 18:38:14 because there was a bug in previous version of pypackager Mar 04 18:38:18 i just edit my code, change the build file and run it :) Mar 04 18:38:19 which is now fixed Mar 04 18:38:32 ooo maybe i need to update it? will go check Mar 04 18:38:41 (and is of course available in extras-devel only) Mar 04 18:38:46 :D Mar 04 18:38:56 pretty sure mine is up to date Mar 04 18:39:06 btw, any clues why some apps don't show their proper icon in the app menu right after installation? Some apps seem to, some other dont. Mar 04 18:39:18 users won't thank you for using b.m.o as bug tracker Mar 04 18:39:29 users will moan about how bugzilla sucks Mar 04 18:39:33 shapeshifter it s a bug :) Mar 04 18:39:34 * SpeedEvil will. Mar 04 18:39:35 most of the time, a reboot is required to show the icon Mar 04 18:39:44 but wont fix Mar 04 18:39:51 khertan2: >.> Mar 04 18:39:54 .. who thinks debians QA is insane didnt seen Maemo yet :> Mar 04 18:39:57 as the more menu will disapear in 1.2 Mar 04 18:39:59 ali1234 - users, or testers? Mar 04 18:40:01 as the more menu will disapear in pr1.2 Mar 04 18:40:04 khertan2: ahh Mar 04 18:40:09 What a fun crowd tonight. Mar 04 18:40:13 :D Mar 04 18:40:17 we aim to please GeneralAntilles Mar 04 18:40:20 n00bmonk3y: users. i don't know what "testers" means Mar 04 18:40:31 latest pypackager installed Mar 04 18:40:36 users wont care what you use as a bugtracker Mar 04 18:40:38 does "testers" mean the people who do QA? Mar 04 18:40:39 :) Mar 04 18:41:00 ali1234 - why will a user not like the tmo approach? - thats as far as most users get.... needing to register for bugzilla is a chore and annoying, and not user friendly Mar 04 18:41:02 because theyll just post "xxx duznt wurk" on tmo in some irrelevant forum regardless of what bugtracker is used Mar 04 18:41:05 yes ali1234 Mar 04 18:41:17 n00bmonk3y: because bugzilla is extremely difficult to use for users Mar 04 18:41:17 fine by me, i can tidy them up and list them :) Mar 04 18:41:22 GeneralAntilles: why? Mar 04 18:41:33 n00bmonk3y: most users would rather post bugs on a forum thread than try to deal with it Mar 04 18:41:37 yup ali1234 my point :) - tmo is easier for people to post - granted the posts dont look pretty Mar 04 18:41:40 Shapeshifter, lots of complaining. Mar 04 18:41:52 but i prefer it there too :) Mar 04 18:41:53 mh Mar 04 18:42:11 GeneralAntilles : thx to haven t use the word whine Mar 04 18:42:26 ali1234: which is ok ... i prefer users send me bug reports in simple words (but more than "does not work") instead spamming a bug tracker with noise Mar 04 18:42:40 cehteh: everyone prefers that Mar 04 18:42:51 specially with that new qa rules Mar 04 18:42:53 :D Mar 04 18:43:02 sometimes i have doubts about that Mar 04 18:43:04 which make search in bmo more complicated Mar 04 18:43:05 bugtracker on 4chan. Everyone wins. Mar 04 18:43:17 SpeedEvil: haha Mar 04 18:44:36 yep 4chan should be added in the wiki as a validate bug tracker link Mar 04 18:46:06 javispedro: around? Mar 04 18:46:37 how abouts to ease the annoyancey now, when autobuilder goes through it auto-emails for the new bugzilla link? :D - allthough a bit late then i suppose lol Mar 04 18:48:15 i seem to recall a thread on t.m.o where it was stated that "we use bugzilla because it is easy for developers" Mar 04 18:48:38 good evening everyone .. and bye Mar 04 18:48:59 We use bugzilla because it's robust, scalable, does what we need it to do and lots of people know how to use it. Mar 04 18:49:35 lol ali1234 - but i'm more of a user then a techy/developer - would much rather things spelt out, in simple order... Mar 04 18:49:39 whats wrong with bugzilla? Mar 04 18:49:44 mikkov, in maemo5 sdk, is the SDL_mixer in i386 not working? I recall you writing something about it somewhere Mar 04 18:49:46 Shapeshifter, it's bugzilla. Mar 04 18:49:56 It really is hard enough to learn to code for #maemo without a list of 20 things to do before you can publish Mar 04 18:50:08 qt. Mar 04 18:50:09 go. Mar 04 18:50:14 ? Mar 04 18:50:18 GeneralAntilles: huh... Mar 04 18:50:23 Shapeshifter: it is extremely hard to use and doesn't integrate well into the rest of maemo.org, especially the QA process Mar 04 18:50:26 * Shapeshifter likes flyspray for that matter Mar 04 18:50:35 Shapeshifter, people hate bugzilla because it's bugzilla. Mar 04 18:50:36 ali1234: hard to use?... Mar 04 18:50:43 I like bugzilla Mar 04 18:51:02 Shapeshifter: yes, hard to use. if i find a bug and try to see if it has already been reported, well, it is almost impossible Mar 04 18:51:51 ali1234, ok, I agree with that one. I'm absolutely clueless as to how I'm supposed see if an issue has been reported. Mar 04 18:52:17 https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=advanced Mar 04 18:52:19 lol Mar 04 18:52:39 The quicksearch defaults are idiotic and need changing. Mar 04 18:52:40 General - you know what you are doing - what about someone who joined a few weeks ago and wants to help out testing? Mar 04 18:52:44 Its not really friendly is it? Mar 04 18:53:31 n00bmonk3y, lots of people are around to help Mar 04 18:53:37 We all had to start there. Mar 04 18:53:47 It's also my intention to make the process easier Mar 04 18:53:50 true, but wouldnt life be easier if the help wasnt needed? and things just worked? Mar 04 18:53:57 Part of this comes with the 3.4 upgrade, the rest with some additional work. Mar 04 18:54:03 had to remember how to use mirc to get quick help as threads can take a few days... Mar 04 18:54:05 n00bmonk3y, yes, utopia is always easier. :) Mar 04 18:54:22 GeneralAntilles - i think you are missing the point... if we can make it easier to help, thats a good thing? Mar 04 18:54:25 But reality is rarely the same thing. Mar 04 18:54:30 n00bmonk3y, sure, and that's what I'm trying to do Mar 04 18:54:40 it doesn't happen overnight, however. :) Mar 04 18:55:02 well i asked a question 40 minutes ago and got no help lol.. just told to use bugtracker which according to the QA process i do not currently have to do...... Mar 04 18:55:19 allthough i agree, i know you are trying to help :) Mar 04 18:55:21 * GeneralAntilles can see this isn't going anywhere productive. Mar 04 18:55:25 * GeneralAntilles will eat lunch instead. Mar 04 18:55:27 i'm just a bit pedantic because i'm annoyed :P Mar 04 18:55:36 n00bmonk3y, what was the question? Mar 04 18:55:44 Lol ty mece :D Mar 04 18:56:05 in my build.py file i have the line p.xsbc_bugtracker="http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453" Mar 04 18:56:19 * mece have been building lego castles for the last 2 hours, so he hasn't really checked tmo. Mar 04 18:56:21 yet the bugtracker link is showing as - xsbc-bugtracker:%20http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45453 Mar 04 18:56:50 not sure where the beginning bugtracker bit is coming from? Mar 04 18:57:56 but gen is annoyed because i dont want to use bugzilla, because i find it counter productive and prefer to use tmo lol Mar 04 18:58:52 %20 means space.. Mar 04 18:59:08 so what is the issue? Mar 04 18:59:13 lol yup, got that bit ;) Mar 04 18:59:19 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/healthcheck/0.5.2-4/ Mar 04 18:59:26 look at the bugtracker link on there Mar 04 18:59:46 i cant find out why the link has the beginning bit, when i am only setting it to = the tmo thread link Mar 04 18:59:51 ahaa IC Mar 04 18:59:53 :D Mar 04 19:00:41 the app is being voted down - ok... i probably should get a bugzilla account - but i do not like bugzilla... so.... i'm sticking to something i know :D Mar 04 19:00:47 what does the build script look like then? Mar 04 19:00:49 pastebin? Mar 04 19:01:50 http://pastebin.com/DngiEuzd (Never used pastebin b4, did it work?) Mar 04 19:02:57 * Aranel needs help for two buttons - Photoshop. (Maemo related) Mar 04 19:03:37 seems to be a py2deb bug (are you using py2deb?) Mar 04 19:03:43 I have the same issue with mine.. Mar 04 19:04:06 ahhhhh (lol no idea, possibly- i used a method that was easy and worked) one of the two lol Mar 04 19:04:15 creates 3 files when run Mar 04 19:04:19 i upload them to autobuilder Mar 04 19:04:49 yep. same one. Apparently there's a bug. Mar 04 19:04:56 lemme check. Mar 04 19:05:04 hmmm so my app could be rejected due to a bug with the uploading lol :P yayness Mar 04 19:05:27 yep. just edit debian/control Mar 04 19:05:43 ahhhh, got no files at all in debain folder Mar 04 19:05:44 :| Mar 04 19:05:48 debian* Mar 04 19:05:49 you see the problem right away. Mar 04 19:05:51 oh right.. Mar 04 19:05:54 :D hehe Mar 04 19:06:01 you need to unpack the tar Mar 04 19:06:02 so new to coding hadnt had the need to learn that yet Mar 04 19:06:21 too bad khertan left already Mar 04 19:06:33 LOL Mar 04 19:06:40 lol Mar 04 19:06:41 that was convenient... Mar 04 19:06:56 every time i build it i'ma gonna need to unpack it to edit a file and repack? :( Mar 04 19:07:00 mece: khertan had a different problem Mar 04 19:07:07 oh? Mar 04 19:07:10 pity because i like just doing it on the device, and that just gets complicated :( Mar 04 19:07:20 khertan made py2deb Mar 04 19:07:24 :) Mar 04 19:07:30 * n00bmonk3y thinks khertan is clever lol Mar 04 19:07:33 Hi again ... Mar 04 19:07:35 khertan! Mar 04 19:07:36 Yay! Mar 04 19:07:37 right.. Mar 04 19:07:42 khertan did i mention i love you? Mar 04 19:07:47 * khertan finally found some time to back again Mar 04 19:07:58 mece: oic Mar 04 19:07:59 khertan, py2deb makes bugtracker url wrong. Mar 04 19:08:06 n00bmonk3y: ? uhm ... nope didn't remember that Mar 04 19:08:08 mece: ? Mar 04 19:08:10 hehehe Mar 04 19:08:21 = my build file - http://pastebin.com/DngiEuzd Mar 04 19:08:32 check the bug link here - http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/healthcheck/0.5.2-3/ Mar 04 19:08:36 khertan, in debian/control, you get this type of problem: XSBC-Bugtracker: XSBC-Bugtracker: http://bugs.maemo.org Mar 04 19:08:56 mece described it better and quicker :) Mar 04 19:09:08 XSBC-Bugtracker should be converted by autobuilder Mar 04 19:09:17 oh.. hmm. Mar 04 19:09:31 doesn't autobuilder use debian/control? Mar 04 19:09:40 for source only Mar 04 19:09:55 for binary upload with dput it doesn't of course Mar 04 19:09:58 khertan, ok, well where does it get the url to bugtracker then? Mar 04 19:10:12 ok ... Mar 04 19:10:21 Hi.. has somebody used the pidgin extra protocols for conversations integration? More specifically with Facebook Account Mar 04 19:10:22 i understand you use py2deb Mar 04 19:10:24 since that error in control appeared before autobuilder touched it. Mar 04 19:10:25 not pypackager Mar 04 19:10:25 :) Mar 04 19:10:28 yes Mar 04 19:10:41 i need to confirm this dont i lol Mar 04 19:11:04 i ve merge recently py2deb and pypackager to pypackager Mar 04 19:11:13 with changes for the new QA rules Mar 04 19:11:20 it says "import py2deb" so yea, you use py2deb also, n00bmonk3y Mar 04 19:11:30 let me 5 minutes to convert your script to pypackager Mar 04 19:11:34 yay ty mce Mar 04 19:11:37 mece* Mar 04 19:11:41 np. Mar 04 19:11:43 hmmm hold on Mar 04 19:11:53 khertan: do you have a guide for such a conversion? I got a py2deb script as well, I guess I need to convert it soon as well. Mar 04 19:11:53 everytime i build it will be wrong tho? Mar 04 19:12:14 khertan, well a sample script would be sufficient for me- Mar 04 19:12:15 Shapeshifter: not yet :) Mar 04 19:12:22 * n00bmonk3y just checked - py2deb installed :) Mar 04 19:13:04 I guess we'll be getting a sample script in n00bmonk3y script :) Mar 04 19:13:15 anyway I've gotta split. the wife is beating me with a stick. Mar 04 19:13:18 Facebook contacts are created just when the user(Friend) get connected to facebook while I connected too!!! is that normal?? Mar 04 19:13:39 http://pastebin.com/BBLkyS5h <- the script i use for pygtkeditor Mar 04 19:13:44 thanks mece Mar 04 19:13:51 and lol Mar 04 19:14:03 fzfq3m: no, but it probably is dependent on how facebook and the pidgin plugin for it works Mar 04 19:14:47 fzfq3m: for most protocols you should get all contacts when you connect, but maybe facebook just doesn't allow that Mar 04 19:14:49 oh.. I have a few minutes still heh. Mar 04 19:15:01 assume i just need to run it? Mar 04 19:15:03 fzfq3m: in particular, pidgin/MSN does not have this problem. i didn't try any others Mar 04 19:15:14 ali1234: It works that way for me... I though I did something wrong and then I reflashed my N900 (Firmware and eMMC) but still the same Mar 04 19:16:12 ali123: yeah.. I also use it with MSN and it works OK... all msn contacts are created at once!!! Mar 04 19:16:19 I thought facebook went XMPP now. Mar 04 19:17:21 n00bmonk3y: http://pastebin.com/fBhAmKAk Mar 04 19:17:33 yeah facebook is xmpp Mar 04 19:17:38 that's the correct way to do it. Mar 04 19:17:38 n00bmonk3y: should be ok after an apt-get install pypackager :) Mar 04 19:17:42 afaik Mar 04 19:17:52 hehe nice nick khertan :) Mar 04 19:18:04 yep Mar 04 19:18:11 this is the bot Mar 04 19:18:27 :) Mar 04 19:18:36 fzfq3m: http://www.facebook.com/sitetour/chat.php just follow this to make yourself an XMPP facebook address and then add it as a jabber service. Mar 04 19:18:44 :) Mar 04 19:19:07 so converting script is easy Mar 04 19:19:18 just take care of some changes in name :) Mar 04 19:19:24 Shapeshifter: yeah... I also tried using jabber account against chat.facebook.com... But I like the way that facebook plugin adds the contact... it just use user id.. something like 549464965 Mar 04 19:19:40 and now you can with the same script generate source package or binary package Mar 04 19:19:46 Shapeshifter: Anyway I will revert back to jabber Mar 04 19:20:13 fzfq3m: the old facebook chat is an abominations Mar 04 19:20:19 but i didn't think that my packaging tools was usefull to other ... i was thinking i'm the only one to use it Mar 04 19:20:31 Shapeshifter: Why is that?? Mar 04 19:20:41 khertan, it's the only way I could get anything done. Mar 04 19:20:45 Shapeshifter: facebook is an abominations Mar 04 19:20:55 sure it is. Mar 04 19:21:06 mece: oh ? really ? you are an other onboard developpers like me ? Mar 04 19:21:27 using a netbook in the metro is cleary not possible :) Mar 04 19:21:59 every apps i do for maemo was writted in the train or in the metro Mar 04 19:22:05 s/do/write Mar 04 19:22:15 fzfq3m: total crap protocol and implementation. just forget it ever happened. Mar 04 19:22:21 khertan, I write mine on the crapper Mar 04 19:22:44 :) Mar 04 19:23:05 lol Mar 04 19:23:30 n00bmonk3y: does the script works ? Mar 04 19:23:51 there is also : p.display_name as you can see in pypackager Mar 04 19:24:06 not tried yet, just had a shower - gotta go out in 10 - trying to run it now :) Mar 04 19:24:07 Shapeshifter: lol .... Then I will use jabber instead Mar 04 19:24:14 Shapeshifter: Thanks Mar 04 19:24:24 maybe one day i should learn wiki syntax to edit wiki.maemo.org/Py2deb Mar 04 19:24:31 * khertan hate wiki Mar 04 19:24:50 khertan, paste it there raw, and I'll make it look nicer. Mar 04 19:25:07 but not right now. gotta go. for reals now. tata. Mar 04 19:25:31 do i just run it on my device? Mar 04 19:28:50 mece: what's the problem with SDL_mixer? Mar 04 19:30:13 hello Mar 04 19:30:20 can someone tell me what the path is to save wallpapers in? Mar 04 19:30:56 mikkov - mece left :( Mar 04 19:31:08 dang_: I think it's MyDocs/.images/ Mar 04 19:31:10 no idea, sorry dang :P Mar 04 19:31:20 caratorn: thanks a lot! Mar 04 19:47:26 bye everyone Mar 04 19:47:48 n00bmonk3y: if you have any question just send me a mail at khertan@khertan.net Mar 04 19:55:57 zsh: segmentation fault ./modest -s Mar 04 19:56:00 gah. Mar 04 20:01:40 Someone have already try android here ? did you can do onboard development with a such OS ? Mar 04 20:05:10 did you can do? Mar 04 20:06:48 listen Mar 04 20:07:11 ENOWAY Mar 04 20:09:03 corecode: i mean can you write code on the device ... and run it directly Mar 04 20:09:18 wrong channel i suppose Mar 04 20:09:21 corecode: without needs of a desktop computer to code, build, package Mar 04 20:09:27 corecode: yep ... and not :) Mar 04 20:09:51 just to know if some maemo user have already use / see a android os Mar 04 20:10:02 for my part ... i never Mar 04 20:11:18 * Stskeeps ponders idly to go on a shopping spree and buying all calvin and hobbes comic books Mar 04 20:11:40 Didn't they release a collection a few years ago? Mar 04 20:11:49 yeah, just saw it Mar 04 20:11:53 http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Calvin-Hobbes-v/dp/0740748475 Mar 04 20:12:17 Friend of mine has the Far Side collection Mar 04 20:12:20 It's a decent set. Mar 04 20:12:51 stupid philosophers though Mar 04 20:12:55 then again, it would be a bit cliche to start collecting comic books at this age Mar 04 20:13:03 * GeneralAntilles shrugs. Mar 04 20:13:15 Calvin and Hobbes aint exactly Spiderman. Mar 04 20:15:52 great. modest segfaults on my desktop Mar 04 20:16:04 how's that supposed to work on my n900 then Mar 04 20:16:37 does you desktop is an arm cpu ? Mar 04 20:16:52 no Mar 04 20:17:04 maybe you got your answer :) Mar 04 20:17:08 why Mar 04 20:17:43 well, he assumes you have taken the plain binary and try to run it on the desktop Mar 04 20:17:48 ... Mar 04 20:17:53 that would be plain stupid Mar 04 20:17:58 i compiled it from git Mar 04 20:18:21 * satmd thought of X forwarding and qemu Mar 04 20:18:21 ;D Mar 04 20:18:24 i didn't remember if modest is available in the sdk ... but try to run it on scratchbox before, i ll not be surprise if there is some glitches on x86 Mar 04 20:18:53 i didn't have time to look into scratchbox use Mar 04 20:19:18 :) Mar 04 20:19:28 same : Mar 04 20:19:30 :) Mar 04 20:19:38 i installed it Mar 04 20:19:40 but that's all Mar 04 20:20:11 i didn't finish the install ... too much error due to my 64bits install Mar 04 20:21:10 oh god you cannot made onboard dev on Android OS Mar 04 20:21:55 strange, i have 64bit as well here Mar 04 20:21:58 and it worked without problems Mar 04 20:23:46 * Shapeshifter is not very happy with libalarm Mar 04 20:26:01 corecode: yep but it s maybe due to old ubuntu install ... upgraded ... upgraded ... upgraded ... with custom things on it Mar 04 20:26:17 ok Mar 04 20:26:20 Shapeshifter: not very intuitive is it Mar 04 20:26:29 toggles_w: not very Mar 04 20:26:53 toggles_w: also, the doc is obscure and error reporting isn't that good Mar 04 20:27:30 Shapeshifter: yeah, i gave up and used bash ;-) Mar 04 20:27:39 ^^ Mar 04 20:27:49 toggles_w: I'm writing a frontend Mar 04 20:28:35 Shapeshifter: yeah, i started that too, figured for all i wanted to do a crappy cron script in bash was faster to implement and easier to maintain, plus cross platform... Mar 04 20:28:51 Hopefully to be replaced in MeeGo Mar 04 20:29:02 toggles_w: I just want automatic gprs-data resetting. I got that now Mar 04 20:29:08 GeneralAntilles: D: Mar 04 20:29:13 GeneralAntilles: another reason not to bother Mar 04 20:29:13 then all my work was for nothing Mar 04 20:29:17 lol Mar 04 20:29:36 Probably still in Harmattan Mar 04 20:29:40 guys, could we put a firewall onto n900? I've got gprs traffic leak with messangers turned off and no usage. Mar 04 20:29:49 GeneralAntilles: they _could_ just use cron imo >.> Mar 04 20:29:52 mmarc__: gprs leak doing what Mar 04 20:29:57 mmarc__: inbound or out? Mar 04 20:30:02 mmarc__: tcpdump! Mar 04 20:30:37 Shapeshifter, there were a variety of reasons why that wasn't workable back in the day. Mar 04 20:30:48 GeneralAntilles: back in the day? is it old? Mar 04 20:30:49 data counter counted 1.5 megabytes of gprs traffic on idle state, without any usage. I can't stand with this, it's not cheap in my area. Mar 04 20:30:59 Shapeshifter, i.e., 770/N800 timeframe. Mar 04 20:31:05 GeneralAntilles: mhhh Mar 04 20:31:14 mmarc__: is it possibly the autoupdate? Mar 04 20:31:15 1.5 megs just in two last hours Mar 04 20:31:28 mmarc__: I'd first tcpdump it - and see what it is. Mar 04 20:31:35 mmarc__, N900 is a data-intensive device. Mar 04 20:32:18 data intensive device doesn't mean it should do shit without permission. Mar 04 20:32:24 IMO Mar 04 20:32:29 I'd like all this autocrap to turn on with wifi available only. Thanks, I will try tcpdump Mar 04 20:33:17 autoupdate or other things ever kicking in over gprs (and not configurable not to) is a bug. Mar 04 20:35:18 I never have such gprs bills before, as for last few days, if nokia thinks we have gprs for free, it will get its phone back with refund request. Mar 04 20:35:31 Mhh, this is such a pain. This just raises InvalidEventException, which appens when alarmd_event_add(event.obj) returns 0 as the cookie. No reason given why it wont get added Mar 04 20:36:16 mh. trial and error showed... some random behaviour. now it worked Mar 04 20:36:21 * Shapeshifter goes back pondering Mar 04 20:56:05 Mhh. alarmd is just weird. I have this event which is supposed to just ring an alarm once an hour. So I have action_stop.flags |= (alarm.ACTION_WHEN_RESPONDED | alarm.ACTION_TYPE_NOP) and a stop and a snooze button. Now, the first time, it waits until the correct time to ring the alarm the first time. But then, if I hit "Stop", it will ring again every minute. Doesn't matter if I do or do not set recurrence.mask_min |= ... Mar 04 20:56:12 ... alarm.RECUR_MIN_DONTCARE. I don't even get what this "DONTCARE" is about its so badly documented. Mar 04 20:56:33 and if I set alarm.ACTION_TYPE_DISABLE instead of NOP, it will be definetely disabled. Mar 04 20:57:05 I expect I will just set gprs to "always ask" when I go travel Mar 04 20:57:32 always ask is a bit broken though. Mar 04 20:57:52 how come? Mar 04 20:58:02 If I open up the web browser to look at a small text page - I don't want something else getting in and deciding it'd like to download a meg. Mar 04 20:58:13 ah Mar 04 20:58:28 Getting it right is hard though. Mar 04 20:58:36 you'd want soemthing like quotas. Mar 04 20:59:25 maybe i'll just get a prepaid card with data :) Mar 04 20:59:30 instead of using roaming data Mar 04 20:59:53 Generally a good plan. Mar 04 21:02:45 ShadowJK: i did that in US Mar 04 21:02:59 ShadowJK: and i've used $100 in 20 minutes Mar 04 21:04:40 There's no such thing as pre-paid data in the US. Mar 04 21:04:58 I heard there was one Mar 04 21:06:25 GeneralAntilles: *waves hand* - this is not the paid data you are looking for? :) Mar 04 21:06:45 GeneralAntilles: there is Mar 04 21:06:54 GeneralAntilles: i had sim from at&t Mar 04 21:06:54 jacekowski, from whom? Mar 04 21:07:22 it took me a lot of walking from one place to antoher Mar 04 21:07:25 another* Mar 04 21:09:08 prepaid data is like 20 usd for 1GB for one month in germany ;) Mar 04 21:09:45 "Alditalk's monthly flatrate for € 14.99/30 days (eplus network, no HSPA, partial EDGE-coverage, frequent network congestions) " Mar 04 21:09:57 http://prepaid-wireless-internet-access.wetpaint.com/page/Germany ? Mar 04 21:10:11 yeah stuff like that Mar 04 21:10:23 it's not _that_ bad. Mar 04 21:17:30 now that n900 nolonger forwards all my incoming calls to a random stranger, i am happy with tschibo/o2 germany Mar 04 21:17:59 probably pebkac too Mar 04 21:21:51 i hate pebkac Mar 04 21:22:33 Hi Mar 04 21:25:39 so Mar 04 21:25:43 hi Mar 04 21:25:44 :P Mar 04 21:29:32 hi! Mar 04 21:29:49 Arif_: what keyboard hi -> so? Mar 04 21:30:19 Not any that I used Mar 04 21:30:19 :D Mar 04 21:31:47 hi are there broken n900 owners around ? http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB Mar 04 21:32:18 i was wondering if replacement ones are more reliable, because i plan to get one soon Mar 04 21:32:59 hmm Mar 04 21:33:07 I keep mine falling around but it still works :D Mar 04 21:33:30 people at nokia have said it's a warranty issue and that they should contact nokia care for a replacement Mar 04 21:34:00 yes they said Mar 04 21:34:17 but is the replacement better ? Mar 04 21:34:29 no clue but the replacement would also be under warranty Mar 04 21:34:43 will it charge the phone faster :D Mar 04 21:34:50 the warrenty starts new on this part Mar 04 21:34:53 or redesigned ? Mar 04 21:38:00 is this chan for general n900 talk as well? Mar 04 21:38:27 yes Mar 04 21:38:58 as well? Mar 04 21:39:00 what else is it for? Mar 04 21:40:05 Arif_: probably n770-N810 too Mar 04 21:40:13 aw Mar 04 21:40:21 only 4 people have one of those anyway Mar 04 21:44:23 Hello,anyone uses python? Mar 04 21:44:35 http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Bugtracker what to add to a such discussion : http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Bugtracker bye see you on an other plateform ? Mar 04 21:46:06 * Arif_ invites Khertan_ to android Mar 04 21:47:28 Khertan_: you're looking at the aemo bug tracker Mar 04 21:47:51 Arif i m already on #android Mar 04 21:48:06 anyone programming with python? Mar 04 21:48:17 joker_89, ask your question Mar 04 21:48:51 i have problems with the pys60, with import urllib.openurl Mar 04 21:48:54 says AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'urlopen' Mar 04 21:49:21 yes im sure some are Mar 04 21:49:34 excuse me s60? Mar 04 21:49:57 yeah Mar 04 21:51:15 can i put maemo on a n85? Mar 04 21:51:34 i dunno, i dont have one Mar 04 21:51:41 http://maemo.org/packages/view/vectormine/ <-- dput the package 1.0.6 this morning ... 12h later still not in extras devel ... Mar 04 21:51:59 lcuk you have maemo? Mar 04 21:52:09 a bit yeah Mar 04 21:52:20 waht mobile? Mar 04 21:52:27 im tired all this fucking process sucks ! i m tired ... Mar 04 21:52:36 bye Mar 04 21:52:38 joker_89, n900 Mar 04 21:52:48 khertan, thats not good Mar 04 21:52:51 n900 to expensive Mar 04 21:53:09 * Arif_ blinks Mar 04 21:53:19 joker_89, maybe there is a channel #symbian you can go to to ask the python s60 question Mar 04 21:53:21 no more try to push in extras Mar 04 21:53:31 bye maemo .. and no nogo ! Mar 04 21:53:47 nice Mar 04 21:53:49 :P Mar 04 21:53:51 aww Mar 04 21:53:53 this channel is dead Mar 04 21:53:56 he couldn't wait for Moogo Mar 04 21:54:17 joker_89, which channel is dead? Mar 04 21:54:25 you came in asking ridiculous questions and pronounce the channel dead? Mar 04 21:54:29 gg Mar 04 21:54:32 symbian Mar 04 21:54:35 joker_89, bear in mind we are not gods, we know very little about symbian programming Mar 04 21:54:56 joker_89, maemo is more different to symbian than windows to mac os x Mar 04 21:55:07 thank god :P Mar 04 21:55:16 but there ara few mobiles with maemo Mar 04 21:55:22 why this hcannel is full? Mar 04 21:55:24 lol Mar 04 21:55:29 he's a joker. Mar 04 21:55:29 why not? Mar 04 21:55:39 joker_89, there is one mobile phone with maemo 5, that is Nokia N900 Mar 04 21:55:52 and its to expensive Mar 04 21:55:53 joker_89, there are 4 other devices running maemo made by nokia Mar 04 21:56:04 wait 4? Mar 04 21:56:10 whats the 4th? Mar 04 21:56:15 770, n800, n810, n810 we Mar 04 21:56:23 Nokia 3210 has it I HEARD Mar 04 21:56:31 :P Mar 04 21:56:43 with snake! Mar 04 21:56:50 mm Mar 04 21:56:56 and anyone have symbian? Mar 04 21:56:59 * lbt thinks about all the devices Mer went onto... that's essentially maemo Mar 04 21:57:01 joker_89, symbian phones are cheaper generally Mar 04 21:57:17 I have a gameboy 95 8Bit edition Mar 04 21:57:18 joker_89, the people who program symbian are probably sleeping now, go back tomorrow morning Mar 04 21:57:18 why are you in a maemo channel demanding information on a completely different operating system? Mar 04 21:57:32 joker_89, go back to #symbian that is Mar 04 21:57:44 always ara sleeping Mar 04 21:57:49 what time is it? Mar 04 21:58:01 .... Mar 04 21:58:09 joker_89, look at the clock Mar 04 21:58:30 i understand that nothing has been official sed on maemo 6, meego on n900, but is the outlook on n900 software support healthy? Mar 04 21:58:33 22:58 Mar 04 21:58:39 joker_89, perhaps you are expecting too much and not asking the right questions, getting responses out of people in irc is like fishing. you have to have the correct sort of bait Mar 04 21:58:57 lcuk: wow you're a friendly fellow ;) Mar 04 21:59:00 joker_89, also you can propbably use google to find an answer to your question, i hear they do a good search facility for the web Mar 04 21:59:06 its the only 1700 wcdma device with qwerty keyboard what is not Tmobile branded, so I'm looking to get one Mar 04 21:59:08 Shapeshifter :) Mar 04 21:59:29 i search and i dont get information Mar 04 21:59:35 and dont work on emulator Mar 04 21:59:36 joker_89, well i can help a little Mar 04 21:59:43 joker_89, do: import urllib Mar 04 21:59:48 i do this Mar 04 22:00:02 and then urllib.urlopen Mar 04 22:00:04 and says error Mar 04 22:00:18 there's #pys60 for Python on Symbian S60 Mar 04 22:00:19 #python maybe? Mar 04 22:00:20 I'm less friendly. I call vampire Mar 04 22:00:31 oh, he's already there. Mar 04 22:00:53 so my n900 isn't showing up as an external drive on my ubuntu boxes Mar 04 22:01:01 joker_89, where did you get the example urllib.urlopen ? Mar 04 22:01:23 from nokia wiki Mar 04 22:01:49 joker_89, and has your phone got s60 5th edition or 3rd edition? Mar 04 22:01:54 seems very easy but.. dont work, Mar 04 22:02:01 3rd Mar 04 22:02:14 joker_89, they probably have an older python version for 3rd edition Mar 04 22:02:16 i try with python 1.4.4, 1.4.5 and 2.0.0 from maemo Mar 04 22:02:22 joker_89, which may not have urllib.urlopen Mar 04 22:02:41 maemo stuff will not usually work on symbian Mar 04 22:02:42 i do all with the emulator Mar 04 22:03:22 ask in #pys60 Mar 04 22:03:30 it is a dedicated channel for python on s60 Mar 04 22:05:39 there is also a mailing list you can ask your question in Mar 04 22:06:43 http://wiki.opensource.nokia.com/projects/PyS60 Mar 04 22:06:54 read that under "Getting help" Mar 04 22:08:20 okk Mar 04 22:08:56 hmm Mar 04 22:09:04 :/ Been noticing huge amount of n900's in my school. Saw 3 today Mar 04 22:09:07 and 2 yesterday Mar 04 22:09:15 what school Mar 04 22:09:24 surely they're giving them for free or something. I'm sure Mar 04 22:09:24 must be finland Mar 04 22:09:28 zaheerm: yeah Mar 04 22:09:34 So, for example now I tried setting the minute of this recurrence. I did: recurrence.mask_min = 42 and now the event actually shows "recurrence_tab0.mask_min: 42" in alarm_queue.ini, so it seems like something happened. There's also an hour mask, "ecurrence_tab0.mask_hour: 16777215" which comes from recurrence.mask_hour |= alarm.RECUR_HOUR_ALL. but despite all this, the alarm didn't ring at 42. Mar 04 22:09:41 mine flow through half a corridor by accident today Mar 04 22:09:45 flew* Mar 04 22:09:46 :D Mar 04 22:09:50 There is at least one project going on for n900 in my school :( Mar 04 22:09:57 something related to ad-hoc networking Mar 04 22:10:10 They were doing that even before n900 was releasted though Mar 04 22:10:21 everyone has a crackberry at my school... Mar 04 22:10:29 :P Mar 04 22:10:44 they haven't figured out MSN can be used on mobiles too Mar 04 22:10:54 :) Mar 04 22:10:58 and IRC and email Mar 04 22:11:04 and skype! Mar 04 22:11:04 and facebook Mar 04 22:11:06 and twitter Mar 04 22:11:08 and voip Mar 04 22:11:09 and skype Mar 04 22:11:11 and.....and.... Mar 04 22:11:13 skype is awsome default feature in maemo :) Mar 04 22:11:20 hi, i cant find my unix-box through Media Shares :/ Mar 04 22:11:30 whats so awfully wrong with my setup?? Mar 04 22:11:31 have you set up an upnp server Mar 04 22:11:35 Hoxzer, great! put your school o nthe map pininthemap.com/maemo Mar 04 22:11:37 especially as I'm almost always able to get wlan connect Mar 04 22:11:37 and make sure they blog about stuff Mar 04 22:11:47 arif_ whats that? Mar 04 22:11:55 well there you go Mar 04 22:11:57 :D Mar 04 22:12:07 Hoxzer, yeah, I've noticed N900s-a-plenty too; only saw 3 N810s Mar 04 22:12:16 :) Mar 04 22:12:17 you need an UPnP server on your PC Mar 04 22:12:36 Hoxzer, the ad-hoc social networking thingie is seeking participants, have you applied?-) Mar 04 22:12:39 like, why does Windows 7 come with that by default?? Mar 04 22:13:07 because it has WMP Mar 04 22:13:07 Hoxzer, where bouts are you? Mar 04 22:13:09 gupnp-tools - UPnP Tools? Mar 04 22:13:14 and WMP has UPnP :P Mar 04 22:13:24 no idea about loonix though Mar 04 22:13:26 I don't use that Mar 04 22:13:55 inz: no, not really Mar 04 22:15:00 * lcuk does ad-hoc networking Mar 04 22:16:04 Hoxzer, I hate those free-form boxes; the pilot seems interesting (and you could win a N900 =) Mar 04 22:16:59 I've never owned any tablet :( Mar 04 22:17:11 o_O inz Mar 04 22:17:28 noone has samba shares available on the maemo from a nix box? Mar 04 22:17:52 I've had plenty in use (4 atm), but owned: none. Mar 04 22:18:34 Tuxprobe: not sure maemo shares anything? Mar 04 22:18:40 by default at least Mar 04 22:19:16 Tuxprobe: You can use sshfs as an alternative Mar 04 22:19:39 mmm, does the n900 have sshfs? Mar 04 22:19:44 hoxzer ive allready setup a sshfs script just struggling with the permissions now Mar 04 22:19:59 but would be nice with an on demand auto discovery.. Mar 04 22:20:35 with sshfs i need to change configuration on the device for each share - with samba the shares are controlled via ui on the laptop ) Mar 04 22:20:52 fuse is an included kernel module so I imagine it'd be possible to install sshfs.. I vaguely recall people are using it Mar 04 22:21:12 Tuxprobe: Have you tried to mount it as a root with -allow_other option? Mar 04 22:21:30 Tuxprobe: It can be done without root permissions and should be done but that's the quick and dirty way Mar 04 22:21:44 well, im on it :) Mar 04 22:21:53 Also maemo will change permissions back to default after reboot Mar 04 22:22:03 was just scouting through sshfs options prior to giving smb a last try Mar 04 22:22:05 gulp Mar 04 22:22:15 just looking at scratchbox.org... nothing has happened on it for 4 years. Is it still used for dev? Mar 04 22:22:27 dregin, yes Mar 04 22:22:30 dregin yes Mar 04 22:22:32 :) Mar 04 22:22:55 and now integrated as plugin with sbrsh into eclipse Mar 04 22:23:22 I see scratchbox2 in ubuntu repos... Mar 04 22:23:26 * dregin installs that Mar 04 22:23:30 'remote shell' allowing to do -> compile, build dist, run remotely live on device Mar 04 22:23:30 dregin, there are news from 2009-12-14, that's less than 4 months. Mar 04 22:24:02 And scratchbox2 is quite different from scratchbox, and may not work for what you want. Mar 04 22:24:14 If it works, it's somewhat more elegant though =) Mar 04 22:24:19 hmmmm maybe I read 2009 as 2006 Mar 04 22:31:44 Hoxzer, do you know, when did TOASnet stop revealing the full address by ip address? Mar 04 22:32:22 * lcuk posted to slashdot Mar 04 22:32:25 Hoxzer, nowadays it seems one can only take a guess at the building; and even that needs some additional knowledge. Mar 04 22:32:28 http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1571700&cid=31363800 Mar 04 22:32:45 inz: I guess when they started using dhcp Mar 04 22:33:17 Hoxzer, ah, that would make it, yes =) Mar 04 22:34:06 * corecode finds 64bit bugs in tinymail Mar 04 22:34:29 So, any hints on my little libalarm issue? Mar 04 22:35:07 Hoxzer, just to make sure my guess isn't all off, you _do_ live in w3, right? Mar 04 22:36:10 inz: dude, stop yelling my location here. Who knows what type of rapist lurk around here Mar 04 22:36:24 inz: but no I dont but very close Mar 04 22:36:48 Hoxzer, well, I'm pretty sure no one can find you even if they know what w3 meant. Mar 04 22:37:06 Hoxzer, and if even that is incorrect, then blah =) Mar 04 22:37:13 :) Mar 04 22:37:45 I was just curious what kind of changes they've made since I left the precious fast tube. Mar 04 22:38:12 But it seems, then, that they've done some major revamping there. Mar 04 22:38:27 Shapeshifter: setting mask to 42 won't make it ring at :42... setting mask to 1 << 42 might Mar 04 22:41:57 tmo is such a cesspool I don't feel like doing anything except troll the whiners :P Mar 04 22:42:15 ShadowJK, Woo! Mar 04 22:42:22 troll, troll, troll your post, gently down the thread Mar 04 22:42:40 * Xisdibik liked inz's song so much he wants to hear the next part Mar 04 22:42:55 * ShadowJK just implied taht the reason there are "no apps" for n900 is because n900 already does everything one could possibly want it to do Mar 04 22:43:36 ShadowJK, people just need to optify their apps :P Mar 04 22:43:54 oh yes, on that regard I'm in the whiner category Mar 04 22:44:25 * ShadowJK installed tcpdump and is down to 50M free on / :( Mar 04 22:44:49 pvanhoof: you there? Mar 04 22:46:10 Xisdibik, flames, flames, flames, flames, whiners are upset Mar 04 22:46:29 Oh wait, merrily is three syllables, that didn't work out Mar 04 22:46:46 'flamity' Mar 04 22:46:49 villager: mhhh thanks I'll try that Mar 04 22:47:12 corecode, I am, but don't shoot me for something I did wrong :) Mar 04 22:47:22 inz, ill wait, you can fix it :) Mar 04 22:47:40 pvanhoof: tinymail uses GUINT_TO_POINTER(type) in many places Mar 04 22:48:01 pvanhoof: i have the feeling that this chops the type to 32 bits Mar 04 22:48:50 corecode, hmm, tinymail has been 2 years ago when I last did major coding for that. A better person to ask is sergio on channels like #modest and #tinymail on GIMPNet Mar 04 22:48:50 nite all, sweet dreams Mar 04 22:49:11 corecode, of course, if im honest, im still tinymail's maintainer ;), but so is sergio now Mar 04 22:49:14 pvanhoof: ah thanks Mar 04 22:49:33 np, enjoy coding Mar 04 22:49:47 pvanhoof: quick question Mar 04 22:49:51 sure Mar 04 22:50:05 pvanhoof: modest doesn't support storing sent mails on imap Mar 04 22:50:15 pvanhoof: is that a tinymail issue, or just missing from modest Mar 04 22:50:18 I know tinymail could easily support this Mar 04 22:50:33 Tinymail doesn't mind about the nature of the sent folder Mar 04 22:50:41 It's just a tny_folder_add Mar 04 22:50:44 so tinymail can imap store Mar 04 22:50:48 okay Mar 04 22:50:49 Yes Mar 04 22:50:49 thanks Mar 04 22:50:56 Adapting modest for this should be easy Mar 04 22:51:10 yea, first i need to get it running here Mar 04 22:51:25 but maybe crosscompiling is as good? Mar 04 22:51:27 i dunno Mar 04 22:51:27 I think they have a custom TnySendQueue or something Mar 04 22:51:32 yea Mar 04 22:51:38 that one just segfaulted :) Mar 04 22:51:39 And there, in that code, they override the get_sent Mar 04 22:51:55 ok :) Mar 04 22:51:58 That's not good Mar 04 22:52:02 evening javispedro Mar 04 22:52:58 Xisdibik, flammable, flammable, flammable, flammable, post will stay unread Mar 04 22:53:11 hi lck Mar 04 22:53:34 lol inz, nice :D Mar 04 22:53:39 keep going if you want, i love it Mar 04 22:53:52 There are no more lyrics for the original, are there? Mar 04 22:54:07 anyone know WRT? Mar 04 22:54:11 WEB RUNTIME? Mar 04 22:54:33 evening all Mar 04 22:54:43 hey lardman \o Mar 04 22:54:46 hey lardman \o Mar 04 22:55:05 Xisdibik, RhymeZone had a nice suggestion "command overhead" as a 5-syllable phrase rhyming with "thread"; unfortunately it made no sense in this context :( Mar 04 22:55:08 hi lcuk Mar 04 22:55:36 Warning Mar 04 22:55:36 YOU MAY NOT STORE POINTERS IN INTEGERS. THIS IS NOT PORTABLE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. These macros ONLY allow storing integers in pointers, and only preserve 32 bits of the integer; values outside the range of a 32-bit integer will be mangled. Mar 04 22:55:40 * corecode sighs Mar 04 22:55:51 so what am i supposed to do then? Mar 04 22:55:54 zaheerm Mar 04 22:55:59 you heard about WRT? Mar 04 22:56:22 joker_89, unless you are 12yo, please stop sounding like one. of course we have heard of many of the technologies Mar 04 22:56:23 corecode, don't store pointers in integers. Mar 04 22:56:28 lol Mar 04 22:56:37 well Mar 04 22:56:38 * n00bmonk3y grumbles Mar 04 22:56:38 corecode: what are you looking at? Mar 04 22:56:44 toggles_w: tinymail Mar 04 22:56:45 corecode: it's only a warning after all... ;) Mar 04 22:56:46 inz, haha, yea doesnt fit the context ;( Mar 04 22:56:52 toggles_w: doesn't run on 64bit machines Mar 04 22:57:02 corecode, well of course Mar 04 22:57:10 of COURSE! Mar 04 22:57:18 so, tinymail stores integers on pointers? doesn't surprise me :9 Mar 04 22:57:20 it is called TINY! Mar 04 22:57:47 in one of the legacy systems i maintained for a number of years, original developer used shorts to store database ids Mar 04 22:57:58 lol Mar 04 22:58:09 everything was fine until someone went over 16k entries Mar 04 22:58:20 How about int_ptr_t Mar 04 22:58:24 sounds like y2k planning to me ;) Mar 04 22:58:35 nahhh n00bmonk3y more like y1k Mar 04 22:58:39 haha Mar 04 22:58:55 lcuk: hey, storage was expensive Mar 04 22:59:04 lardman, this was a windows vb app Mar 04 22:59:17 vb 3.x? Mar 04 22:59:18 nothing to do with storage Mar 04 22:59:26 ust using integer around Mar 04 22:59:34 actually, glib actually has "gintptr". Mar 04 22:59:36 now that's shit Mar 04 22:59:48 please no misuse of ints in non portable ways. that makes pupnik cry Mar 04 22:59:50 i think i can count on my hand the number of times i actively used "integer" in a declaration Mar 04 22:59:59 lol Mar 04 23:00:00 pupnik_++ Mar 04 23:00:19 int pupnik_tears; Mar 04 23:00:29 omg, you can have negative tears! Mar 04 23:00:43 oh sorry, C has intptr_t Mar 04 23:00:46 one underscore too many Mar 04 23:00:49 and if you square root those they become imaginary Mar 04 23:00:50 they fall off the ground, roll up your face and get sucked in Mar 04 23:01:04 no, the mo is GType -> gpointer via GUINT_TO_POINTER(type) [all fine]. later, gpointer -> uint -> GType via GPOINTER_TO_UINT(once.retval) [lose 32 bits] Mar 04 23:01:40 nobody can say i didn't try Mar 04 23:01:45 * frals pets python <3 Mar 04 23:02:17 change the "unit" to intptr_t :( Mar 04 23:03:21 corecode, is sizeof(GType) 8? Mar 04 23:03:24 well, can't Mar 04 23:03:31 inz: the very least Mar 04 23:03:33 inz: :) Mar 04 23:03:49 inz: looks like an opaque pointer-in-type Mar 04 23:04:43 corecode, I think it's just a integer identifier Mar 04 23:04:56 corecode, does GPOINTER_TO_SIZE and GSIZE_TO_POINTER do the trick? Mar 04 23:05:11 -es Mar 04 23:05:49 GType = gsize (= unsigned long) Mar 04 23:07:17 corecode, "GType — A numerical value which represents the unique identifier of a registered type." Mar 04 23:07:41 yea Mar 04 23:07:57 can't find any appropriate bugs on this, anyone know if it's intentional that the media player can only display ~50 ish items in any single folder when browsing a upnp server? Mar 04 23:13:12 inz: but that appears ~ 50 times or so Mar 04 23:13:19 inz: not sure whether i should change all of them Mar 04 23:13:35 ah no, 164 times Mar 04 23:15:59 corecode, well, you should always check what data is put into the pointer (and read from it) Mar 04 23:16:03 nighty night, maemo Mar 04 23:16:28 corecode, if it's GType or gsize, then yes Mar 04 23:17:37 corecode, or then you could make it pass g_type_name(...) and change it back using g_type_from_name(); but that would be quite a bit slower, obviously =) Mar 04 23:20:00 tny-gtk-header-list-model.c:489: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size Mar 04 23:20:03 :/ Mar 04 23:21:07 mm no that's something else Mar 04 23:22:40 \o/ Mar 04 23:22:41 works Mar 04 23:23:44 Wunderbar. Mar 04 23:25:55 khertan: are you alive? :D Mar 04 23:34:52 btw Mar 04 23:35:00 I was today playing with some underclocking and drnoksnes Mar 04 23:35:25 at 250Mhz the software scaler becomes slower than the GPU assisted scaling Mar 04 23:35:39 (at 500Mhz it's still somewhat faster) Mar 04 23:36:47 it's very much playable at 250Mhz + gpu, just a bit slower than n810 with hardware scaling Mar 04 23:37:41 but the battery savings seem negligible... Mar 04 23:42:29 interesting javispedro .. too about about battery savings Mar 04 23:44:28 too bad about Mar 04 23:45:17 I'm pondering adding pbuffer support to SDL_gles.. Mar 04 23:45:20 or just leave it to the app Mar 04 23:45:35 either way using pbuffers is stupid when you can use fbos Mar 04 23:45:43 so no. Mar 04 23:45:45 that was quick :P Mar 04 23:46:34 fbos? Mar 04 23:46:41 framebuffer objects Mar 04 23:47:25 this wondrous thing is what you implemented in drnoksnes in dec? Mar 05 00:01:20 javispedro: could you upload sdlgles to extras-devel? Mar 05 00:01:29 ok Mar 05 00:02:24 I have glTron and tuxrace/tuxrider working more or less Mar 05 00:02:57 I just need confirmation of tuxrider's gles wrapper licence Mar 05 00:03:56 fantastic Mar 05 00:04:34 ah yes, the wrapper was done by some iphone guy? Mar 05 00:04:35 iirc. Mar 05 00:08:06 tuxrider guy made a wrapper http://www.barlow-server.com/tuxriderworldchallenge/ Mar 05 00:08:36 It's not the one which I saw at talk.maemo.org (bsd licenced) Mar 05 00:09:26 You need still quite a bit hacking, but it has the most important things included Mar 05 00:09:56 can't wait to play that Mar 05 00:10:58 tuxracer has all the menus screwed up, but the actual game is perfect Mar 05 00:11:03 and performance? Mar 05 00:11:40 I don't know the fps but good enough, I don't see any problems with performance Mar 05 00:12:45 I think that some effort more games which are not using glut can be ported Mar 05 00:12:59 glut is easy enough to reimplement too. Mar 05 00:13:08 for glut there actually exists glut|es Mar 05 00:13:12 i already started (called it glust) but stopped since I saw someone alraedy did it Mar 05 00:13:16 heh. Mar 05 00:13:49 http://glutes.sourceforge.net/ Mar 05 00:14:35 you know any command line tricks to get a .mp4 playing at fullspeed in mplayer? Mar 05 00:14:59 pupnik_: mplayer filename.mp4 Mar 05 00:15:19 mikkov: aha, sdlgles already went through the autobuilder. ping me if you find any issues with the packaging. Mar 05 00:15:55 so far I haven't seen any problems Mar 05 00:16:28 I've changed the build-deps so that it builds in both x86 and armel, but that shouldn't break much :) Mar 05 00:16:44 I have to wait for answer from tuxracer guy before I can upload Mar 05 00:16:56 oh Mar 05 00:17:07 :'( Mar 05 00:17:50 Well in theory I think all code there should be GPL Mar 05 00:17:56 that says on the front page. Mar 05 00:18:21 the actual files say "All rights reserved" Mar 05 00:18:28 hm :S Mar 05 00:18:36 better wait then. Mar 05 00:18:53 but I think it's mostly trivial code for people who know the stuff Mar 05 00:19:35 it targets gl es 1.1 then? Mar 05 00:19:41 so you can make a clean room implementation :) Mar 05 00:19:50 gles1.1 yes Mar 05 00:20:00 * javispedro thinks N810... will try if I find the time Mar 05 00:21:52 night chaps Mar 05 00:22:33 night lardman Mar 05 00:27:24 hm.. the armel package does not depend on EGL. Mar 05 00:27:37 fortunately the GLES1/2 packages do. Mar 05 00:27:56 gles library is not automatically recognised Mar 05 00:28:02 ah, messed shlibdeps. Mar 05 00:28:05 nice. Mar 05 00:28:39 well, since you need a gles1 or 2 package to use it and it will pull egl I won't bother. Mar 05 00:30:03 true Mar 05 00:31:52 there is problem with tuxracer name. Apparently tuxracer cannot be called tuxracer and tuxrider is probably out of the question too :) Mar 05 00:32:38 so I was thinking tuxrace :) Mar 05 00:35:11 Hi. Mar 05 00:36:08 tuxracier Mar 05 00:37:20 drnokrace :) Mar 05 00:37:30 (i'm such an evil genius ;P ) Mar 05 00:37:41 tuxricer Mar 05 00:37:51 just need a splash screen Mar 05 00:37:55 http://www.funroll-loops.info/ Mar 05 00:40:17 torxracer Mar 05 00:40:19 nice read. Mar 05 00:40:25 In which repo can I find tweakr? Mar 05 00:40:55 extras-testing Mar 05 00:41:46 and how can I add it? Mar 05 00:41:57 I mean, what is url to it? Mar 05 00:42:31 same as extras but replace extras with extras-testing Mar 05 00:42:56 ok, thank Mar 05 00:47:56 mikkov: Ok, got it, thatnks. Mar 05 00:50:16 baaaah I want torxturxituxriracer already! Mar 05 00:50:35 I could send it you Mar 05 00:51:30 hm.. why not? :P Mar 05 00:52:00 whole package seems to be 30M Mar 05 00:52:06 ouch. Mar 05 00:52:13 I can wait then :P Mar 05 00:52:23 binary is 500 kB Mar 05 00:54:07 you would need the binary and data directory from tuxrider+ musics and sounds from tuxracer Mar 05 00:54:27 ah, btw Mar 05 00:54:33 you use sdlmixer for music (midi?)? Mar 05 00:55:40 music/options1-jt.it: Impulse Tracker module sound data - "tux racer - options" compatible w/ITv217 created w/ITv214 Mar 05 00:55:54 sdlmixer yes Mar 05 01:12:12 "At first glance, it looks as if we're in the middle of a patent lawsuit Super Bowl party. Nearly every large mobile phone player has recently been involved in some sort of patent litigation regarding mobile technologies." Mar 05 01:12:27 what a fun market to be in. Mar 05 01:13:50 Hopefully they all tear eachothe down. Mar 05 01:14:56 http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/03/03/technology/bits-suepatent2/bits-suepatent2-blogSpan.jpg Mar 05 01:15:20 note that the graphic "conveniently" ignores Palm but they're in deep shit too. They already were before making the Pre, even. Mar 05 01:23:39 Kodak? lol Mar 05 01:24:38 moo all Mar 05 01:24:43 * RST38h back stateside Mar 05 01:24:45 Yo Mar 05 01:24:45 moo RST Mar 05 01:24:49 How's the weather? Mar 05 01:25:34 General: only a bit warmer than MSK Mar 05 01:25:44 Although forecast looks good =) Mar 05 01:37:31 ah, yet again the color palette of angry birds made tmo news. Mar 05 01:37:55 lol Mar 05 01:38:05 Paid content back yet? Mar 05 01:38:09 Think they're waiting on PR1.2? :D Mar 05 01:38:25 * GeneralAntilles waits for an early Harmattan security framework deployment. Mar 05 01:38:30 dunno, I'm very much new to all this "being on the latest version" new fangled thing :) Mar 05 01:38:33 Nokia can even market it like they're bringing Harmattan features to N900! Mar 05 01:39:09 * javispedro tried angry birds for first time.. 4 days ago. Mar 05 01:39:22 Get with the times! Mar 05 01:39:26 I'm definitely keeping it though :P Mar 05 01:40:08 btw what's with the new microb's "focus the address bar" (or something like that, since I have i18n'd version) option Mar 05 01:40:25 It's allegedly stupid Mar 05 01:40:26 it actually focuses the address bar, preventing me from writing anything in text fields. Mar 05 01:40:36 I mean, it exactly does what it says on the tin :) Mar 05 01:40:38 Haha Mar 05 01:40:40 lol Mar 05 01:40:41 Yeah, it's buggy as hell. Mar 05 01:40:55 You can tap in text fields and they get focus back Mar 05 01:41:03 but the location bar steals the focus occasionally anyway Mar 05 01:41:10 for a single character, after which the address bar gets focused again Mar 05 01:41:20 iirc timeless said they fought against it and the best they got was option to disable it :) Mar 05 01:41:40 Gotta love idiot UI people. Mar 05 01:41:43 thank god they managed to get that instead of yet another 4 key combination Mar 05 01:43:24 I though those "people" would have run away from Maemo and moved onto the next Symbian UI already :P Mar 05 01:43:30 UI is management versus logic Mar 05 01:44:30 * javispedro is reminded of that coders vs ui people slides on #maebar Mar 05 01:44:32 I just wish these people had public presences so they could be abused more directly. Mar 05 01:44:51 * GeneralAntilles missed that talk. Mar 05 01:45:25 and as usual, nobody uploaded the slides afai seen. Mar 05 01:46:12 We just need to hook the presentation machines directly into slideshare or maemo.org or something Mar 05 01:46:21 In order to give your talk you have to upload them. Mar 05 01:46:29 next summit I'm going to come with a basket "please deposit pen drive with your slides here if you want to see another birthday. Mar 05 01:47:27 Nha, just force them to run presentations off slideshare directly Mar 05 01:47:38 They can upload it whenever they want, only slideshare is connected to projector Mar 05 01:50:55 they can choose that or the laptop with ms powerpoint 95 Mar 05 01:52:59 But they have to retype their talk Mar 05 01:55:40 ah, engadget is at it again Mar 05 01:55:46 http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/04/meego-repository-going-public-later-this-month-coming-to-nokia/ Mar 05 01:56:27 Thankfully they didn't interpret it as full Harmattan support Mar 05 01:56:34 yes, it could have been worse :) Mar 05 02:14:47 * RST38h wonders how UI people rise up in the ranks while being compltely disconnected from actual users Mar 05 02:15:52 Anyone who claims any interface is "intuitive" has clearly never ever seen a user :) Mar 05 02:17:37 Or a baby. Mar 05 02:18:08 I'd love to understand the process behind that thought - the addressbar thing Mar 05 02:18:25 Half of it must be management meddling where they shouldn't. Mar 05 02:18:41 It doesn't take much to turn a good idea into shit where UIs are concerned. Mar 05 02:20:19 ShadowJK: Well, Palm has got it right initially, but it cost them a LOT of work Mar 05 02:20:47 SpeedEvil, I love the nipple analogy Mar 05 02:20:54 considering the difficulty so many parents have with nursing. Mar 05 02:20:54 ShadowJK: They basically counted clicks for every activity and optimized for the minimal number of clicks Mar 05 02:21:01 GeneralAntilles: exactly. Mar 05 02:21:20 GeneralAntilles: or indeed most animals Mar 05 02:21:20 SpeedEvil, maybe someone clueless saw all the whining about ^L not focusing location bar in diablo :) Mar 05 02:21:45 So instead of just making ctrl-l work and calling it a day we make EVERYTHING focus the location bar! Mar 05 02:21:47 GENIUS!!! Mar 05 02:21:47 RST38h, that's just making things efficient, nothing about making things intuitive Mar 05 02:22:07 Intuitive is stupid Mar 05 02:22:20 When I use an interface for hours a day I don't care how easy it was to get started a year ago. Mar 05 02:22:32 yup Mar 05 02:23:00 You know what the most beginner unfriendly things are? People who write beginner-friendly software Mar 05 02:23:02 I'm beginning to wonder if I really need shiny desktop effects. Mar 05 02:23:10 Stupid Nokia Mar 05 02:23:14 ShadowJK: Not sure what they did to make things intuitive but it worked as well. Maybe because the whole thing was very simple to beign with Mar 05 02:23:19 Or if I just want the transitions to bang. Mar 05 02:23:21 Why did they have the screw up the version string on PR1.1.1? Mar 05 02:23:24 srsly. They all have flashy stupid themed UIs, that look completely different than the standard UI elements they're struggling to learn Mar 05 02:27:46 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9407 Mar 05 02:27:47 Bug 9407: Do not show fullscreen button when scrolling with the keyboard Mar 05 02:27:52 I should've filed that months ago. Mar 05 02:28:26 SpeedEvil, there's transition-control btw to turn them off Mar 05 02:29:26 O leow Mar 05 02:29:28 I know Mar 05 02:31:00 I really actually want some fast way of flipping apps. Mar 05 02:31:10 May get round to that Mar 05 02:31:34 for example, if keyboard open, lock button goes to previous window Mar 05 02:33:00 SpeedEvil, there's a patched h-d that ties in with camkeyd that does that. Mar 05 02:34:03 oooh. Mar 05 02:34:08 have to look that up Mar 05 02:35:43 Apple removed several Wi-Fi apps commonly referred to as stumblers, or apps that seek out available Wi-Fi networks near your location. Mar 05 02:36:23 poor iphone developers, there is no object that is too large for their collective butt Mar 05 02:37:15 Meh, they just need to repackage it Mar 05 02:37:20 Or make it a hidden feature Mar 05 02:53:45 crashanddie, Apple finds those too. Mar 05 02:54:39 How about making an app that does geo-loc based on wifi hotspots? Mar 05 02:54:49 lol Mar 05 02:54:52 keep the feature, just don't make an app that does just that Mar 05 02:55:29 Can you imagine investing that kind of time and effort into an application and having Apple screw you over like that? Mar 05 02:55:39 I can't believe developers still come flocking to the platform. Mar 05 02:56:57 it makes no sense into investing time and effort into something that sells for <$10 Mar 05 02:57:12 you simply won't get any money from it Mar 05 02:57:27 RST38h: but you make it up in volume. Mar 05 02:57:34 Speed: No, you do not Mar 05 02:58:03 Speed: To earn, let us say, $3000/mo you have to sell 300 copies / month or 10 per day Mar 05 02:58:07 Some do Mar 05 02:58:17 Sure. Mar 05 02:58:20 But that giant freaking longtail Mar 05 02:58:35 Or 1day of 10 apps Mar 05 02:58:36 Speed: Now, with tens of thousands of apps in the app store, your chance of selling 10/day is very slim Mar 05 02:58:49 It's okay. Most of those people wouldn't have been able to do anything productive with that time anyway. Mar 05 02:58:50 RST38h, 'course, the amount of effort that goes into most of those "applications" is small. Mar 05 02:58:55 General: It is not a longtail. It is a freaking lotteyr Mar 05 02:58:58 lottery Mar 05 02:59:00 derf, +1 Mar 05 02:59:20 derf: Hmm, an interesting justification =) Mar 05 02:59:21 I love how people talk about the numbers in the app store like it's something to be proud of Mar 05 02:59:25 90% of it is useless spam Mar 05 02:59:31 RST38h: No harm, no foul. Mar 05 02:59:42 derf, maybe keeps petty theft down a bit? ;) Mar 05 02:59:45 General: Oh you do know that the Chinese have figured out App Store farming? Mar 05 02:59:53 RST38h, oh? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 05 02:59:58 2010