**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 08 02:59:57 2010 Mar 08 03:08:18 Hi Mar 08 03:08:42 Does the default maemo 5 media player support displaying album art stored in the audio files itself? Mar 08 03:19:49 Please let me know if you notice other bots sending you PMs upon joining the channel Mar 08 03:22:36 crashandie - thats a pretty wide wildcard ban. what did you just do, ban a country or two? :P Mar 08 03:23:13 Termana_n810: actually, that would appear to only be a very specific ISP Mar 08 03:25:16 Termana_n810: and it's only temporary, until freenode deals with 'em Mar 08 03:28:00 Termana_n810: also, authenticated users aren't affected by it Mar 08 03:28:55 crashanddie, you don't have to justify the ban to me, i was just making a joke :P Mar 08 03:29:42 yeah well, whenever I moderate this channel I get crap about it, so i tend to justify extensively now Mar 08 03:50:28 everytime after banning another continent ;) Mar 08 03:50:39 crashanddie, hehe, now you know how qgil feels, eh? ;) Mar 08 03:51:34 GAN900: yeah, not that anyone should realistically Mar 08 03:52:47 I'm commenting on a piracy thread, and some guy comes in and says "if a moderator disagress, you can get banned or the thread will be locked" Mar 08 03:52:48 wtf? Mar 08 03:53:29 I just got called "capitalist scum" because I'm a Mar 08 03:53:55 I'm a "moderator on a corporate forum" and my stance is that I support copyright Mar 08 03:54:30 followed by "your narrowness of mind ends up with you selling yourself short"... WTF??? Mar 08 03:54:32 mwahahaha Mar 08 03:55:56 how much must we pay you to chat in #maemo this week? Mar 08 03:56:14 i lost teh paypal addr Mar 08 03:56:17 lol Mar 08 03:56:33 I thought Open Source was about Open Spirit more than anything, but the more I hang around, the more I'm starting to believe that this community is slowly slipping towards something even worse than digg/reddit -- only because of very specific members though. Mar 08 03:57:22 nah the folks who contribute contribute. the rest of us just yakkity yak Mar 08 03:57:22 It's the most absolute bollocks if you ask me. The thread starts out asking opinions about piracy, and why we personally believe it is good/bad. And as soon as you give your opinion you get slammed for being a corporate whore/lawyer Mar 08 03:58:13 I reinstantiate my request: X-Fade can you rm -rf /var/www/talk ? Mar 08 03:58:44 Maybe some moderator not posting in that thread could move the name-calling posts to the "ad-hominem attacks" thread Mar 08 03:58:54 argh no. half my notes are there Mar 08 03:59:29 well, I'm not a moderator in OT anyway, but I would've voted for having that thread moved to general. There are some very good posts, with very valid points on both sides Mar 08 03:59:46 look at this way: prosecuting piracy encourages FOSS :) Mar 08 04:03:48 no, prosecutation encourages defiance, sadly Mar 08 04:03:54 prosecutation? Mar 08 04:05:34 hehe Mar 08 04:07:27 i just got sick of windows personally and bit the bullet and ditched all that winsoft i didnt need Mar 08 04:08:01 and it got funner as linux got better Mar 08 04:10:55 well, i've been a linux user since before I was a window suser Mar 08 04:11:49 I started on SuSE about... 15 years ago? Now I'm more of a OSX user, but Windows remains a given in the workplace Mar 08 04:12:18 I don't care about people pirating, I do care about people making up excuses for their piracy. They're cheap fucks, just admit it Mar 08 04:13:26 "You can't call us pirates, we're not on a boat attacking ships, raping, murdering and pillaging" <-- When did you become Mr. Sensitive? YOU just ADMITTED to be a member of THE FUCKING PIRATE PARTY. Mar 08 04:13:56 plonkers Mar 08 04:15:16 the entire free software movement was pretty much founded in anger, what do you expect? Mar 08 04:16:37 it wasn't founded in anger Mar 08 04:16:47 I never worked on code because I was angry... Mar 08 04:17:11 sure it was Mar 08 04:17:17 I contributed to code because I was extremely happy with myself and my life -- only when you're at peace can you enjoy spending hours hacking at code for something you'll never get paid for Mar 08 04:17:20 At least that's my case Mar 08 04:17:39 that's why you'll never understand why people are calling you names :) Mar 08 04:17:51 I never heard anyone go "OOOHHHH, Serial expired? Oh man, I'm so happy I could... I could... I'm going to write a new operating system!" Mar 08 04:17:57 s/happy/angry/ Mar 08 04:17:57 crashanddie meant: I never heard anyone go "OOOHHHH, Serial expired? Oh man, I'm so angry I could... I could... I'm going to write a new operating system!" Mar 08 04:18:40 RMS founded GNU because his printer wouldn't work and he was pissed off Mar 08 04:18:40 but it wouldn't have gotten where it is today if bill gates hadn't done an EPIC TROLL on "hobbyists" Mar 08 04:19:19 So, 20 years later, does his printer work? Mar 08 04:19:28 Or did he notice after 5 years he forgot to plug it in? Mar 08 04:20:04 no actually, i think the point is he diagnosed the fault but was unable to fix the problem, and the company who made it was unwilling to fix it Mar 08 04:20:13 sounds kind of familiar... hmm who else does stuff like that? Mar 08 04:21:04 whether his printer works today is kind of irrelevent. if it does, it was no thanks to the people who he bought it off, who refused to give support Mar 08 04:21:19 iirc RMS even submitted bugreports/patches that got ignored Mar 08 04:22:24 there are clear reasons for some software to be Open Source Mar 08 04:22:38 especially OS / drivers Mar 08 04:23:04 less so for media-intense games Mar 08 04:24:17 pupnik: portal 2 Mar 08 04:24:29 ali1234: interesting Mar 08 04:25:03 ali1234: however, that still doesn't help me understand why they think they're entitled to violating copyright laws Mar 08 04:25:10 Mooseous: fix your connection Mar 08 04:25:24 well, i dunno about that one Mar 08 04:26:05 see rick falkvinge's google talk Mar 08 04:26:56 no, I don't want some propaganda leader's google talk, for which he obviously prepared intensely Mar 08 04:27:05 I want people's opinions, their points of view Mar 08 04:28:02 i understand all the arguments so i could just give you a summary Mar 08 04:28:02 you're polling the internet about opinion's about piracy and you're surprised it's spiraling out of control? hmm. Mar 08 04:29:02 It's like asking people why the vote democrat, and you get offered a speech of their elected representative Mar 08 04:29:06 PP argues that enforcement of copyright requires a regime of snooping and enforcement that is unacceptable for privacy Mar 08 04:29:08 If you can't explain why you're voting for something, how can you vote at all? Mar 08 04:29:48 jebba: actually I'm not polling, I've been called a troll for replying to a question Mar 08 04:30:02 jebba: see the piracy thread in OT section of tmo Mar 08 04:30:21 i think it is reasonable to vote for the person who makes the most convincing argument Mar 08 04:30:51 even if you are not articulate enough to repeat it yourself Mar 08 04:31:14 pupnik: yeah, however that's the same argument as what one of the guys in the thread used, however most artists and copyright holders never asked for brutal enforcement. I'm a copyright holder, and I've never been asked if I wanted to ruin some kid's life by demanding a massive fine Mar 08 04:31:17 anything else is just the same aas saying you have to pass an IQ test to vote Mar 08 04:31:39 ali1234: which is pretty much my opinion :P Mar 08 04:31:46 kill the idiots and the elderly Mar 08 04:32:04 PP presents the argument in a binary way, yeah Mar 08 04:32:32 pupnik: I would just like people to have enough decency not to use something if it's against the wishes of the owner Mar 08 04:33:06 i don't think oyu really believe that Mar 08 04:33:08 "Home recording is killing the record industry." "Do your part!" Mar 08 04:33:15 ali1234: of course not ;) Mar 08 04:33:17 therefore you must be trolling :) Mar 08 04:33:36 ali1234: though there's a few idiots I'd kill with great pleasure :D Mar 08 04:33:52 crashanddie: data isnt naturally a scarce economic good Mar 08 04:33:55 Isn't it really like saying "having laws against tresspassing is burden on society, I don't damage anyone by going into someone else's house, therefore I am allowed to" Mar 08 04:34:35 not really no Mar 08 04:34:52 it's more like saying you don't damage anyone by making a perfect replica of their house, and then going into that Mar 08 04:35:01 see the literature. Stephan Kinsella (a patent lawsyer) has an eye opening book on it Mar 08 04:35:36 ali1234: but you don't have the right to make a perfect replica Mar 08 04:35:55 ali1234: because in order to make a perfect replica, you need access to every single detail of the house -- which is again privacy invasion Mar 08 04:36:33 it's as good an example as I hoped it was, but it doesn't favour either view, sadly Mar 08 04:36:43 s/it's/it's not/ Mar 08 04:36:44 crashanddie meant: it's not as good an example as I hoped it was, but it doesn't favour either view, sadly Mar 08 04:37:22 let's put it another way Mar 08 04:38:27 do car analogy! Mar 08 04:38:35 I write a song about something extremely personal, say manic depression, and how it affects my life on a daily basis. I only send it to two people, my girlfriend and my psychiatrist. It would be against my wishes to copy it, sure, making a copy of that song doesn't remove anything from the original copy, but it still goes against my wishes. Would you copy it? Mar 08 04:38:48 (regardless of the technical aspects of getting access to it) Mar 08 04:39:00 is it a good song? Mar 08 04:39:22 I hate most of the crap i write, but for the sake of the argument, let's say yes Mar 08 04:39:54 now remember, i don't want notoriety, I don't want my personal life exposed -- the argument that piracy brings fame would be nil in this use-case Mar 08 04:40:13 well probably not Mar 08 04:40:25 piracy doesn't exists without the initial demand Mar 08 04:40:39 of course it does Mar 08 04:40:50 do you honestly believe that kids having 200gig worth of music wanted every single song? Mar 08 04:41:02 that's not piracy, that's mental illness Mar 08 04:41:13 mild OCD at the very least Mar 08 04:42:34 and let's not forget that the arctic monkeys became famous *because* of P2P, not because there was demand. it was only spread over p2p networks intially Mar 08 04:43:47 I have a very hard time understanding that. I would love to, but I fail to see arguments which make me go "Aah, yes". Mar 08 04:44:06 i have a hard time understanding the popularity of the arctic monkeys too Mar 08 04:44:06 anyway, time to do the expenses again, bank account is going low Mar 08 04:44:21 ali1234: lol Mar 08 05:06:14 crashanddie: I think you are conflating privacy/secrecy with copyright. Mar 08 05:09:15 crashanddie: In your manic-depressive song analogy, a more accurate one might be that you sent the song to ten thousand individuals, most of whom you did not know personally, and then claimed that further duplication is a violation of your privacy. Mar 08 05:11:09 crashanddie: Please correct me if I am misunderstanding your argument. Mar 08 05:13:47 pointless thread Pavel Mar 08 05:14:20 but good observation Mar 08 05:16:16 * Pavel is saddened by how often right to privacy/secrecy is used to justify copyright and how often copyright is (ab)used to maintain secrecy. Mar 08 05:16:25 Mostly the latter. Mar 08 05:20:03 morning Mar 08 05:23:45 Pavel: Agreed, however it was more to understand if people gave any importance to the wishes of the author or not Mar 08 05:24:24 crashanddie: Depends. Mar 08 05:26:40 crashanddie: There are, after all, factors like empathy and goodwill toward fellow man or woman that factor into the matter, and your example appeals to that. This is distinct from a right/privilege to prevent others from copying it and punish those who do. Mar 08 05:26:59 indeed Mar 08 05:27:31 So I guess it really comes down to the "I-can-get-away-with-it" feeling Mar 08 05:27:46 The copyright, with its proponents and detractors, is the latter. Mar 08 05:28:10 well, not really. I really doubt that most artists want to punish. Mar 08 05:29:03 Well, you can't prevent it every time, so the punishment has to be there as a deterrent. Mar 08 05:29:29 What motivates people's positions in this debate is, indeed, often selfishness, and I do not completely exempt myself from this. Mar 08 05:29:35 Again, I'm a copyright holder, and when one specific major attacked some kid "on behalf of the authors and artist" they protected, I kindly asked them to not include me in those statements, when they failed to do so, I kindly terminated my contract with them. Mar 08 05:30:04 crashanddie: And I applaud you for it. Mar 08 05:32:29 it is folly to try to say all "pirates" have the same motivation Mar 08 05:32:50 ali1234: Agreed. Mar 08 05:33:31 It's a shame though that so many have such a poor defence Mar 08 05:36:10 on the contrary, i think the fact that people don't even care about having a defence just strengthens the argument for change Mar 08 05:36:53 As to whether the author's wishes should be respected and to what extent, depends on what ethical justification for copyright one believes. Mar 08 05:37:26 And by "respected" I mean "enforced by force of law". Mar 08 05:37:41 Well, what alternative would there be then? Mar 08 05:37:49 bacon. Mar 08 05:37:52 the alternative is always bacon Mar 08 05:38:00 * lucent waves hello to everyone Mar 08 05:38:04 I mean, is not fair that people be paid for something they worked on? Mar 08 05:38:46 If they don't mind giving it away to public domain, sure, it is their right, but is it not their right to simply not want to give it away for free? Mar 08 05:39:07 Is this not the same argument as expecting everyone to work for free, rather than just having people give away a few hours at the goodwill? Mar 08 05:39:35 crashanddie: anti-usury laws Mar 08 05:39:37 You misunderstand. I was merely clarifying that term, to make the distinction between the "goodwill" aspect and the "prevent and punish" aspect clear. Mar 08 05:39:51 What prevents people from simply not listening, not using or not viewing a specific song/book/software/movie? Mar 08 05:39:52 once you pay for something, they can't charge you more just to use it differently Mar 08 05:39:57 Not making a value judgment. Mar 08 05:40:03 crashanddie: you tell me, man. I want a multi-platform sample accurate CD audio ripper written using libcdio as the backend, but I'm not much of a programmer. How do I get this accomplished? Mar 08 05:40:12 crashanddie: donations? and if donations, then to whom? Mar 08 05:40:37 lucent: not donations, how about a labour contract? Mar 08 05:40:46 again, with whom? Mar 08 05:40:55 erhm... rentacoder.com ? Mar 08 05:41:10 crashanddie: Anyway, that's the "right to profit" justification you are making. Mar 08 05:41:38 Pavel: not really, I'm really trying to understand how one is expected to survive if not by having people pay for his work Mar 08 05:41:43 crashanddie: "Right to profit from exploitation of the work" anyway. Mar 08 05:41:53 crashanddie: copyright is not needed to charge for works Mar 08 05:41:59 crashanddie: That's a separate question. Mar 08 05:42:10 Pavel: but it's the one I'm asking Mar 08 05:42:17 I charge $500 for ProgramX. If you don't pay me, you don't get ProgramX. End of story. :p Mar 08 05:42:45 Pavel: because if I can have a way to get paid appropriately for the songs/books I've written, and incredible amount of hours I've put in them, I would love to sign up Mar 08 05:42:51 crashanddie: I'm serious about that, is rentacoder.com reputable? have you used it? Mar 08 05:42:59 lucent: I used to be a developer on it Mar 08 05:43:04 ah okay Mar 08 05:43:10 Now say you buy ProgramX from me for $500... and then decide you want to do something I didn't design it to do. With copyright, I can force you to pay me extra to add it. Mar 08 05:43:17 i have heard nothing but bad things about rent-a-coder Mar 08 05:43:35 that's usury: charging for the product, then charging again to use it. Mar 08 05:43:38 I hear only the horror stories about Indian coders with little or no education on licensing issues ripping off code without attribution to get paid Mar 08 05:43:54 lucent: just check a developer's status. Write a good proposal, be sane in the money you ask for it (don't ask MS Office for $20), and only accept guys who have good reputations -- there's a lot of scum Mar 08 05:44:02 I have not heard any "yes votes" in favor until you mentioned it Mar 08 05:44:22 lucent: if you want to do it seriously, just send a job proposal to your local headhunter job agency Mar 08 05:44:33 crashanddie: How to survive? Simple. Get a different job, and don't bother writing songs and books. Which is a suboptimal outcome, if you produce greater value writing books and songs than you do at your other job, so we have copyright, which is a fairly free-market way to reward the investment (if it's a good one) in production of such works. Mar 08 05:44:35 find someone local, always better in the long run Mar 08 05:44:55 crashanddie: That's the utilitarian/economic justification. Mar 08 05:45:13 Pavel: but would people then pay for each copy of my work? Mar 08 05:45:39 * Trizt wouldn't Mar 08 05:45:46 crashanddie: Sigh... I am not actually disagreeing with you at the moment. Mar 08 05:46:00 I understand that Mar 08 05:46:13 I'm just trying to go further here Mar 08 05:46:15 crashanddie: if you continue to maintain it, presumably people would pay for the new versions ;) Mar 08 05:46:25 unless the code sucks Mar 08 05:46:33 luke-jr: read up, not talking about software here Mar 08 05:46:57 crashanddie: if you only do the work once, you should only be paid for it once. Mar 08 05:47:06 crashanddie: thanks for the tips Mar 08 05:47:07 by whom? Mar 08 05:47:08 and how much? Mar 08 05:47:16 crashanddie: however much it costs. Mar 08 05:47:39 luke-jr: do I charge the first customer, the very first buyer $80 * number of hours it took me to produce the song? Mar 08 05:47:46 and then give it away for free? Mar 08 05:47:48 crashanddie: the problem isn't being honest, it's competing with dishonest people/companies. Mar 08 05:48:05 how screwed up would that be for the first guy Mar 08 05:48:10 crashanddie: The utilitarian/economic argument then goes that we (as a society) are better off granting an author (whatever the heck that means --- that's a separate discussion) a monopoly on the work that would allow and encourage said author to recoup the opportunity costs of making that work. Mar 08 05:49:09 crashanddie: Note that the author's wishes only enter this argument in a subsidiary way: they are a means, not an end. So, if in the absence of a copyright system, you would have still produced that work, there is no point giving you copyright for it. Mar 08 05:50:19 crashanddie: many bands are just putting their music online gratis, and making all their money in concerts, afaik Mar 08 05:50:32 luke-jr: it's not just about the bands, sadly Mar 08 05:50:41 luke-jr: have you read my longish posts on the subject? Mar 08 05:50:44 nope Mar 08 05:50:50 want to spend 10 minutes reading? Mar 08 05:50:53 nope Mar 08 05:50:56 :) Mar 08 05:51:15 * lucent notes "tl;dr" Mar 08 05:51:17 fair enough Mar 08 05:51:56 crashanddie: There is also the natural/property rights view of copyright, which says that the author owns the work in a manner comparable to physical property: that is, has a right to _control_ what happens to all instances of that work. Personally, I think that this view is essentially self-refuting, since practically every "work" is, in some way, derived from others, and nobody can really do anything. Mar 08 05:54:05 crashanddie: And, lastly, there is a related view that the author doesn't necessarily have the right to control but has the right to profit from exploitation. Mar 08 05:54:39 * Pavel has forgotten where he was going with this. Mar 08 05:55:00 yeah, but the two last ones are flawed in a way Mar 08 05:55:55 kinda reminds me of all those photogs we accept attribution-only CC on their pictures -- one girl had her picture used to illustrate a news story about a girl being abused while on holiday in cyprus or something Mar 08 05:56:20 which wasn't her at all, however now she's marked as such. Mar 08 05:57:04 crashanddie: that's totally different Mar 08 05:57:06 that's akin to slander Mar 08 05:57:29 yeah, but it still arises from the fact that she gave away her copyright Mar 08 05:58:18 if there isn't a law to prevent lying, especially in such a way, there should be Mar 08 05:58:32 people shouldn't depend on copyright law for totally unrelated protections Mar 08 05:58:33 giving away copyright does not overrule laws created to handle slanderous situations Mar 08 05:58:55 (words could have been more careful but the hope is you all understand what I tried to say here) Mar 08 06:01:42 http://thispicturesucks.wordpress.com/category/shit-that-grinds-my-gears/ Mar 08 06:01:55 I can't access the website, but the story should be there Mar 08 06:02:06 crashanddie: Well, open licenses that don't restrict use are a double-edged sword that way. A pacifist contributing to the Linux kernel is not unlikely to have his/her work run on a CPU of a smart bomb... Mar 08 06:02:24 true Mar 08 06:04:32 In other news, my noise-canceling headphones may have reached their end of life. Mar 08 06:05:03 Light percussive maintenance helps, for the moment, though. Mar 08 06:05:32 "light percussive maintenance" eh Mar 08 06:07:50 is GLib useful to Qt programming? Mar 08 06:07:58 or are they covering much of the same ground Mar 08 06:08:34 they cover the same ground Mar 08 06:10:05 AFAIK GLib covers the same ground as STL in C++. Mar 08 06:10:45 So it's needed for GTK+, since GTK+ native binding is C, to emulate object-orientedness. Mar 08 06:11:05 Qt's native binding is C++, however, GLib would be redundant. Mar 08 06:11:32 Qt does not require STL either though Mar 08 06:11:56 oh. Mar 08 06:12:25 ali1234: Right, but my sense is that GLib is redundant if you have STL (which you have if you have C++). Mar 08 06:13:05 Glib has GObject, Qt has QObject... they do pretty much the same thing Mar 08 06:13:15 C++ looked "broken" to me about 10 years ago when I looked into it, from a background of C Mar 08 06:13:29 C++ is broken, and especially STL Mar 08 06:13:36 crashanddie: Fancy moving the sticky from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46160 to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46781 Mar 08 06:13:39 luckily Qt does not make you use any of the broken stuff Mar 08 06:13:40 I mean that compilers and behaviors were still undefined Mar 08 06:13:46 instead, they reimplemented it Mar 08 06:14:38 Jaffa: done Mar 08 06:14:45 Jaffa: you're up early :) Mar 08 06:15:12 for example, you can't inherit from STL classes, but you can inherit from the Qt equivalents with no problems Mar 08 06:15:20 crashanddie: Indeed. Well, online early. About now I usually stagger out of bed into the shower, but set my alarm early for a migraine check. Mar 08 06:15:26 * Jaffa should go get Mar 08 06:15:32 * Jaffa should go get ready for work. Mar 08 06:15:56 Jaffa: any feedback on the email from last night? Mar 08 06:16:16 except from the obvious part that telnetting to your smtp on badger isn't the most comfortable way to send email Mar 08 06:54:47 hmm Mar 08 07:51:03 whoever provided the navit package, THANK YOU SO MUCH! Mar 08 08:45:16 vgba has kind of a hard time. Mar 08 08:47:39 sar3th: Is it usable while driving? Mar 08 08:47:59 MiXu-: i haven't tried that yet, just found it in the extras-devel repo Mar 08 08:48:10 i am trying it tomorrow night :) Mar 08 08:48:21 alright Mar 08 08:51:16 At least navit UI is the worst I've seen so far on Maemo. Mar 08 08:52:02 unless the one in devel is better than the one in extras-testing. Mar 08 08:52:02 worse than maemomapper? Mar 08 08:54:09 can't remember what it looks like Mar 08 08:55:33 sar3th: where do you get a map from? (I only have a yellow background image) Mar 08 08:57:57 Shapeshifter: http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Main_Page#Maps Mar 08 09:01:26 sar3th: thanks Mar 08 09:02:17 np Mar 08 09:12:38 has someone understood how to use 'flashlight'? its not in the more menu or anywhere Mar 08 09:14:05 Shapeshifter: open up the camera lens, then you should see it under the "sys" tray area where your 2g/3g connection, wireless, etc are shown Mar 08 09:14:59 Shapeshifter: make sure you turn off flashlight before you close the camera lens cover again though (almost like unmount before you disconnect a flashdrive) Mar 08 09:15:58 slackmagic: ahh thanks Mar 08 09:19:18 slackmagic: really? Mar 08 09:19:27 why should you do that? Mar 08 09:20:35 sar3th: i think the flashlight doesn't stop, I haven't tried it yet and I read it somewhere (dev's page?, maemo form, can't recall), just passing on info I've read :D Mar 08 09:21:34 slackmagic: it does stop Mar 08 09:21:49 when you slide it 3/4, the flash goes off Mar 08 09:22:14 sar3th: thanks for the confirmation then, that's good to know Mar 08 09:22:21 np :) Mar 08 09:22:27 i just tried it Mar 08 09:23:42 by the way Shapeshifter, you weren't the only one which fell for that trap ;) Mar 08 09:24:15 trap? Mar 08 09:25:16 thinking flashlight is broken, as it doesn't show up anywhere except when you open the camera Mar 08 09:25:27 * Arkenoi wonders if there is a way to prevent camera app from launching if *another* app using camera is active (flashlight, mbarcode, etc), it is very annoying Mar 08 09:25:33 sar3th: heh Mar 08 09:29:40 iirc ther are some config thing in systemui.ini and mcs.ini Mar 08 09:30:19 flashligh has to open the camera since its controls are officially an api on the camera device Mar 08 09:30:48 others may hack around that, but no one knows what sideeffects that has Mar 08 09:32:02 hm Mar 08 09:32:08 my flashlight usage routine is this Mar 08 09:32:14 1) open camera hatch Mar 08 09:32:18 2) close camera app Mar 08 09:32:24 3) start flashlight Mar 08 09:33:53 so flashlight itself doesn't open the camera app Mar 08 09:34:23 camera device i saied Mar 08 09:35:14 thats makes it also confliciting with the camera, no flashlight while filming, dunno if thats fixed meanwhile Mar 08 09:35:37 no its not Mar 08 09:37:56 there's a thread on tmo Mar 08 09:38:09 videolight and autofovus video script Mar 08 09:38:16 or manual focus Mar 08 09:38:16 ah Mar 08 09:38:32 yeah, but not in the flashlight app Mar 08 09:39:02 you can tweak gconf not to start the camera app when you open the slide Mar 08 09:44:43 Hello Mar 08 09:44:49 Hello, I have seen on wiki, that I'm able to ask a question at this channel regarding Maemo Mar 08 09:45:39 I have just got a N900, but unfortunately it is not possible to sync with Exchange, as the N900 does not support the mandatory device security settings, set on the Exchange (as is the trouble with many N-series). Is there any way around this on maemo? Any email apps? Mar 08 09:46:01 you can ask, whether it gets answered is slightly different :> Mar 08 09:46:53 afaik if your exchange server requires the device to support provisioning you're SOL, the n900 like all n-series phones isnt really a corporate device and isnt exchange certified Mar 08 09:47:42 Exactly the answer I was afraid to get ;) Mar 08 09:48:12 pjet, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mail_For_Exchange_%28MfE%29_Heartbeat_and_FAQ#Provisioning Mar 08 09:49:43 andre__, sorry link doesn't work Mar 08 09:49:54 link works fine for me Mar 08 09:49:58 works fine here. Mar 08 09:50:06 define "doesn't work" Mar 08 09:50:13 and it just says you're SOL as provisioning doesnt work on the n900 :) Mar 08 09:50:16 Sorry once again _ my bad Mar 08 09:50:43 Thanks for your quick help and answers Mar 08 09:50:54 As you said, I'm SOL Mar 08 09:51:00 feel free to click "Vote for this bug" in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8452 (no need for comments though)... Mar 08 09:51:09 will do Mar 08 09:51:49 tbh regardless of votes provisioning support's highly unlikely to ever change Mar 08 09:52:04 Have a great day you all, and thanks once again! Mar 08 09:53:51 does anyone know when the media players tag display will be fixed? Mar 08 09:57:21 is there a bugreport? Mar 08 09:58:46 i think i saw one, can't seem to find it now :| Mar 08 09:58:58 the problem occurs with additional codec support Mar 08 10:07:48 morning Mar 08 10:07:54 huhu Mar 08 10:12:52 :| Mar 08 10:13:25 werz ma firmwarez Mar 08 10:15:43 Does someone understand where in this first code block example the actual sms message is? http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Phone_call_and_SMS_examples pdu_array? Very sparse info on this... Mar 08 10:36:46 Hi there all. Is there a way to update facebook statuses without opening a browser? Mar 08 10:37:27 Yes Mar 08 10:37:42 I use Mauku + Twitter-facebook integration Mar 08 10:37:48 crs, by sms Mar 08 10:38:14 MiXu-: My mauku has no facebook support. Mar 08 10:38:45 crs: It doesn't. Mar 08 10:39:04 But it has twitter support and you can have all your tweets automatically become your facebook statuses. Mar 08 10:39:32 MiXu-: O, thanks for that. I am very new to tweeter. Mar 08 10:39:59 * asj- beats on Freenode Mar 08 10:40:00 That part of the puzzle doesn't have anything to do with N900. If I recall right, you can enable that from twitter's end. Mar 08 10:40:02 -twitter* Mar 08 10:40:13 you want the selective twitter app on facebook Mar 08 10:41:04 Which one for example? Mar 08 10:42:28 which one what? Mar 08 10:42:47 oh, there is bild in one, right? Mar 08 10:42:56 built-in Mar 08 10:43:00 no Mar 08 10:44:05 hm Mar 08 10:44:17 you know easy debian Mar 08 10:44:45 can i somehow make the img file around 4GB instead of 2? Mar 08 10:46:56 img file? Mar 08 10:47:15 loopback mount on vfat? Mar 08 10:49:02 Hi, no port of "fortune" yet? Mar 08 10:49:18 the .img.ext2 file it places on the vfat yeah Mar 08 11:04:22 vfat should be able to handle almost 4GB files Mar 08 11:04:45 so you could try to extend it or make a new image and copy files over Mar 08 11:05:01 dunno if the ext2 there is resizeable Mar 08 11:05:47 copying should work nevertheless... so make a image as big as you like (rather fat likes) Mar 08 11:07:41 hello! Mar 08 11:08:00 wohoooo - it kept saying i was a banned user lol... grrrr to auth services! Mar 08 11:11:33 * Shapeshifter is wondering how he manages to segfault both pyside and pyqt with his code Mar 08 11:11:55 so it must be a bug in my code not pyside >.> Mar 08 11:13:02 or maybe its a bug in Qt itself :> Mar 08 11:13:16 if you manage to crash pyqt as well, possibly Mar 08 11:13:36 moo butchr Mar 08 11:13:46 * burchr stabs Stskeeps Mar 08 11:13:50 i'll butcher you soon Mar 08 11:13:51 :P Mar 08 11:15:08 burchr: yeah it's weird. I don't really see much wrong with my code. I mean, python is pretty indestructible ;) Mar 08 11:15:16 Shapeshifter: pastebin Mar 08 11:15:53 burchr: uff it's too big. I do stuff with dialogs. meh. I'll find the problem sooner or later. I heard exec_() is evil. Mar 08 11:16:18 exec on dialogs? mm, not exactly evil, but it is misleading Mar 08 11:16:35 lol... seg faults are evil...... Mar 08 11:16:37 in that it doesn't really block, signals etc still can happen elsewhere while it's in exec() Mar 08 11:16:38 burchr: I read the API and it said this was the standard use. Mar 08 11:37:49 ~seen khertan Mar 08 11:37:51 khertan <~5c8ef6ab@gateway/web/freenode/x-mreyjdobbbzfwjug> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 2h 27m 18s ago, saying: 'bye ... today the work is to refince electrical board in my house :)'. Mar 08 11:37:58 hmm Mar 08 11:38:12 anyone know why he's not overly enamoured with extras? Mar 08 11:38:33 hehe .. hope he knows how to handle electrics ... Mar 08 11:38:55 well he's still alive and posting to the list at least ;) Mar 08 11:39:04 :) Mar 08 11:39:30 well he saied thats he spends more time fixing packaging than being productive Mar 08 11:39:50 that won't change by not being in extras though Mar 08 11:40:14 well if he doesnt have to follow the QA rules from maemo.org Mar 08 11:40:18 specifically he said he spent more time fixing his packages to meet rule changes in extras, than actually being productive Mar 08 11:40:28 oh right, what are these changes? Mar 08 11:40:35 i suggested him to make source releases and find someone who does the packaging for him Mar 08 11:40:46 * lardman has been coding rather than paying attention to the lists Mar 08 11:41:03 lardman: well i think the last straw had something to do with bug trackers Mar 08 11:41:12 ah, requiring a bugtracker Mar 08 11:41:23 yeah, I need to deal with that too Mar 08 11:41:33 the actual changes are rather hard to pin down since the list of rules is a wiki page that people edit all the time without announcing anything Mar 08 11:42:01 i think the real problem is the first he hears about it is when someone thumbs down his app Mar 08 11:42:03 lardman, what is that about Khertan and extras? Mar 08 11:42:11 * cehteh proposes that anyone who changes a rule have to fix all existing packages which he break by it :) Mar 08 11:42:22 that sounds like a very good idea to me Mar 08 11:42:34 hehe hardly enforceable Mar 08 11:42:55 it's totally enforcable. just remove thair ability to give "thumbs down" until they do it Mar 08 11:44:24 ali1234: yeah, the wonders of thumbing down Mar 08 11:44:51 mece: just trying to work that out, see the maemo-devel list from this morning Mar 08 11:45:11 windows mobile really is a piece of wank Mar 08 11:45:15 lol Mar 08 11:45:21 but has pretty uis Mar 08 11:45:31 not this version Mar 08 11:45:46 and i'd rather pressing the menu actually do something as oposed to the entire device being locked Mar 08 11:45:51 +up Mar 08 11:47:00 hmm, sounds like WinXP when it starts up ;) Mar 08 11:47:23 burchr: http://stuff.moritzg.ch/dialogcrash.py this is a test case btw. Mar 08 11:47:31 open the dialog a couple of times and it will segfault Mar 08 11:47:44 * burchr clicks Mar 08 11:48:10 lardman, hmm I haven't gotten any maemo-devel mails this morning. Have I been removed from the list or something? Mar 08 11:48:29 mece: if so, it wasn't me! ;) Mar 08 11:48:53 lardman, are the mails posted online somewhere? Mar 08 11:49:01 but there have been some emails this morning, 5 since 10.30 gmt Mar 08 11:49:03 burchr: I'm stripping it down to isolate the problem some more Mar 08 11:49:17 mece: yeah there's an online archive linked from maemo.org Mar 08 11:49:25 http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/tags/40d/ w00t Mar 08 11:50:33 gee, after reading that thread i'm glad i never uploaded anything to extras Mar 08 11:50:34 crashanddie: I was expecting pictures from the beach.... Mar 08 11:50:54 lardman: beach is boring, but if you insist http://www.wickedweasel.com Mar 08 11:50:58 (nsfw) Mar 08 11:51:27 ali1234: is not that bad, just don't worry about extras, that way when people comment saying "do this or else" you can just ignore them quite happily :) Mar 08 11:51:38 and your app can grow old in extras-testing Mar 08 11:51:52 yeah, unless it somehow gets promoted Mar 08 11:52:16 crashanddie: is that what you wear to the beach? ;) Mar 08 11:52:25 then i have a possibly buggy app with my name on it, and no way to control when it gets updated Mar 08 11:52:41 lardman: somehow I don't think my hairy arse would look good in something like that :P Mar 08 11:52:46 crashanddie: lol Mar 08 11:52:56 ali1234: you can push updates in extras-devel and -testing Mar 08 11:53:05 lardman: also depends which part of my body is doing the wearing... Cuz yeah, wouldn't mind "wearing" that :P Mar 08 11:53:11 ali1234: anyway I was only taking the mick Mar 08 11:53:21 crashanddie: lowering the tone! Mar 08 11:53:22 wohooooooooo bugtracker sorted and into testing - yay!!! Mar 08 11:53:29 lardman: and they won't affect the version in extras Mar 08 11:53:48 ali1234: indeed, but I've never bothered to push an app into extras Mar 08 11:54:07 though that will soon change Mar 08 11:54:20 lol apt conversation for me to post that into lol Mar 08 11:54:30 indeed :) Mar 08 11:54:34 khertan is around - fixed my py build file for me this morning :) Mar 08 11:54:41 just not come on irc yet ;) Mar 08 11:54:46 np, was just going to ask him what was up Mar 08 11:54:53 but we've worked it out Mar 08 11:55:01 he has added a new version of pypackager on his own repo :D Mar 08 11:55:06 lardman, ok, I'm a little confused as to the motives of khertan's migration... Mar 08 11:55:09 works well for me :) Mar 08 11:56:02 noobmonk3y, tell me more about this bugtracker? Particularly, what did you do to set it up? Mar 08 11:56:11 Ahhh the joys of bugtrackers Mar 08 11:56:19 Garage one? Do tell as I need to set one up too Mar 08 11:56:29 :) Mar 08 11:56:33 * mece also. Mar 08 11:56:34 had to email the bugtracker peoples with a list of things... did that on saturday and Andre added me a bugtracker on sunday :) Mar 08 11:56:44 will find my email Mar 08 11:56:54 http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products Mar 08 11:56:54 ah ok, on bug.maemo.org? Mar 08 11:57:03 andre__: danke Mar 08 11:57:15 * mece is feeling warmth in his heart, both for the meego stuff and the lovely maemo community. <3 Mar 08 11:57:25 yeah link is right at the bottom of all bugs pages Mar 08 11:57:34 I dunno wtf is up with me. I'm just feeling really inspired today. Mar 08 11:57:48 mece: odd, it is Monday after all Mar 08 11:58:11 exactly! Mar 08 11:58:24 "warmth in the heart" Mar 08 11:58:33 yeah teh request email addy is : bugzilla@maemo.org Mar 08 11:58:47 perhaps because the weekend was stressfull with sick kids and stuff, and the sun is out, and a random dude added material to my comic widget! Man that stuff gets you all fuzzy inside :D Mar 08 11:58:48 teh Mar 08 12:00:43 email i sent to bugzilla is here - http://pastebin.com/QXE1dECB Mar 08 12:01:30 the harder part was getting py2deb to update the bugtracker... but Khertans new version worked :) :) Mar 08 12:01:43 needed his py2packager from his repo and a slightly updated build file Mar 08 12:09:20 http://stuff.moritzg.ch/dialogcrash2.py allright, here we are. miniature test case, segfaults after 3-5 hits on the button :| For some reason, this one doesn't make pyqt crash, only pyside. While my app, which has more stuff in the dialog also crashes pyqt (but somewhat less often seemingly...) Mar 08 12:09:56 seems like setting the layout on the dialog triggers the bug. Mar 08 12:12:04 can you get a backtrace? Mar 08 12:12:30 ali1234: well, there are no debug symbols. Mar 08 12:12:39 lolz Mar 08 12:12:40 on the n900 at least. does scratchbox have them? Mar 08 12:12:45 no idea Mar 08 12:12:57 have you tried it on some other machine? Mar 08 12:13:08 PyQt4 is available just about everywhere... dunno about pyside Mar 08 12:16:29 hmm Mar 08 12:17:11 ali1234: runs fine on my laptop if I disable the alarmd module (which is pymaemo specific) and use pyqt4. But I'm on archlinux and very uptodate. pyqt 4.7.0 and Qt 4.6.2 Mar 08 12:17:12 sry back , phone Mar 08 12:18:00 it works fine here on PyQt4.6 Mar 08 12:18:18 ali1234: yeah that example doesn't segfault with pyqt either Mar 08 12:18:20 but with pyside Mar 08 12:18:33 my own app segfaults with both but it has more stuff in the dialog Mar 08 12:18:49 i'm thinking threading Mar 08 12:19:16 ali1234: but why does the bug go away when removing the layout lines Mar 08 12:19:59 what happens if you make newEventDialog and newEventVBox local? Mar 08 12:24:51 ali1234: seems to stop it from segfaulting as well Mar 08 12:25:53 then it is something to do with threading Mar 08 12:26:15 and most likely the more lines of code = more likely to get an overlap and hit the bug Mar 08 12:26:36 ali1234: probably. I'm now trying the same thing on my app. thanks. Mar 08 12:29:41 yeah mine seg'd on the threading part :( - but was using gtk threading in a pyqt app lol ;) (Worked fine after a while, but removed it for safetys sake) Mar 08 12:30:02 my guess is that somehow the click event fired twice, the first dialog got deleted before it could be shown, and then when you do try to show it, you get the segfault Mar 08 12:32:06 :) Mar 08 12:32:40 Ooo if anyones bored today - just pushed my app into extras-testing so would like some lovely testers to give it a run through :D - http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/healthcheck/0.6.0-5/ Mar 08 12:33:16 Scatter printfs libreally. Mar 08 12:37:46 * noobmonk3y pokes lcuk Mar 08 12:38:10 which version of flash did the maemo browser have again? 9.x? Mar 08 12:39:23 9.4 Mar 08 12:39:40 I guess the plan is to not upgrade it to 10 :P Mar 08 12:39:57 hmmm dont know, possibly a meego thing though.... Mar 08 12:40:07 I'm sure it is possible to upgrade it though Mar 08 12:40:27 well I just hope to see flash die to be honest Mar 08 12:40:51 lol Mar 08 12:41:02 everything goes through phases Mar 08 12:41:12 or adobe are in the position to sit there and choose which platforms they want to support and not Mar 08 12:41:15 it would be nice if that flash-activate-on-click worked Mar 08 12:41:25 noobmonk3y ill give it a test through, I think I heard whispers of massive power drain while the app's up though? Mar 08 12:41:33 hmmm, someone said they got that working, may have been in ff though Mar 08 12:41:58 lol nido - not quite it drained mine yesterday but i had a hell of alot open - so probably just being mis-understood. Mar 08 12:42:04 it doesnt do anything if it is just open :D Mar 08 12:42:12 is there a thethering app for the n900 (using fedora as laptop)? Mar 08 12:42:34 thank you though :D Mar 08 12:42:39 erm i think there is Mar 08 12:42:54 blue... something (Blue dun?) meh Mar 08 12:43:23 isnt joikuspot working now? Mar 08 12:44:12 oooh yeah, joiku works ok Mar 08 12:44:27 I had it working olrite before Mar 08 12:44:38 there a new version or? Mar 08 12:45:24 sejo, Bluetooth DUN support, iirc Mar 08 12:45:47 and if you use a USB cable, you don't need special software -- select PC suite on the N900, use it as a USB modem from Network Manager Mar 08 12:47:08 Bluetooth tethering is a nice idea... But it's slooow. Mar 08 12:47:29 It's limited to something like 480kbps Mar 08 12:47:31 noobmonk3y - i'm guessing no easy way to prevent the camera app from opening when opening the lens cover for the back camera test? Mar 08 12:48:01 nid0: you can prevent it from launching the camera app from gconf Mar 08 12:48:15 thx Mar 08 12:48:23 is there software that lets you use it as a modem over wifi then? similar to wmwifirouter on winmo if you are familiar with that :p Mar 08 12:48:30 nid0: no sorry :( that is a bit of a pain really Mar 08 12:48:38 Shapeshifter: ooo i eat my words Mar 08 12:48:41 Funnyface: thats what joikuspot does Mar 08 12:48:48 nice Mar 08 12:49:34 mgedmin: thx Mar 08 12:49:40 does the n900 joikuspot have the same limitations as the symbian version? free version only being HTTP, and the commercial lets you use other protocols too? Mar 08 12:49:42 does it seem reliable? because I never found wmwifirouter that reliable, but I think that was a problem with winmo itself Mar 08 12:49:44 noobmonk3y - any chance of making the vibrate test a bit more.... forceful, almost feels like the vibrator is actually packing up with the way healthcheck triggers it Mar 08 12:49:54 sometimes DNS wouldn't work and you had to reboot the device Mar 08 12:50:18 other times the thing simply wouldn't connect the data connection :P Mar 08 12:50:20 crashanddie: pong Mar 08 12:50:26 crashanddie: No response to your email, no. Mar 08 12:51:10 lol nid0 - intersting one, i suppose i could get it to time it better.... just running a few dbus commands to get it going. does just about prove it works :D Mar 08 13:00:47 brb - Lunch Mar 08 13:03:42 bbl Mar 08 13:03:56 noobmonk3y: strange, a 'cat 200 >/sys/class/leds/tw*vib*/brightness' just triggers a ~500ms vibrator kick. Something seems to stop it Mar 08 13:04:23 It diddn't used to in pr1.0 IIRC Mar 08 13:05:09 * DocScrutinizer considers a kill -SIGSTOP mce Mar 08 13:08:06 that did it Mar 08 13:08:16 ~lart mce Mar 08 13:08:16 * infobot makes a balloon animal out of mce Mar 08 13:08:51 now your shape more shows your true nature, mce! ;-P Mar 08 13:10:32 you bad boy, the vibrator is mce's toy Mar 08 13:12:05 funny!! 'cat >/dev/null'; double-press blueFN to lock numeric input, send some 222 to cat; ^D (back to shell prompt); press Ctrl -> onscreen keyboard pops up. I'd call that a bug Mar 08 13:14:17 waaah, sigstopping mce made usb charger vanish Mar 08 13:15:08 or at least it dimmed screen, though my setup says "no dim while charging" Mar 08 13:16:41 * DocScrutinizer wonders if mce barfs chunks on being stopped for a few minutes, then continued Mar 08 13:16:43 mhm Mar 08 13:16:49 Hi ! Mar 08 13:16:56 khertan Mar 08 13:16:59 or some hardware watchdog? Mar 08 13:17:09 Khertan: they were talking about you all morning :) Mar 08 13:17:12 hah fixed your house electrics :P Mar 08 13:17:44 tybollt: about what ? Mar 08 13:17:49 cehteh: yep :) Mar 08 13:17:53 cehteh: hmm, might be, yes Mar 08 13:18:13 cehteh: a bit difficult ... but fixed :) Mar 08 13:18:34 friggin shit, not even replugging helped :-( Mar 08 13:18:38 well mce should keep its fingers off charging, thats bme's job, but it controls screen blanking and other stuff Mar 08 13:19:14 smells like boot Mar 08 13:19:24 what controler takes care for the screen brightness? maybe mce refreshes it sometimes Mar 08 13:19:32 just restart mce Mar 08 13:20:05 while i never tried to stop mce for extended time periods .. i expected somthing like that :) Mar 08 13:20:10 yup. Any official way to do that? like 'start mce -restart' or sth? Mar 08 13:20:23 stop mce; sleep 3; start mce Mar 08 13:20:32 k Mar 08 13:21:27 dunno if thats 'official' i have the impression that no one at nokia ever imagined one would want to stop certain services :) Mar 08 13:23:59 cehteh: nope :-( Mar 08 13:24:39 or maybe... Mar 08 13:24:40 23:22 < crashanddie> fucking awesome Mar 08 13:24:40 23:22 < crashanddie> just had my fucking face punched in for taking pictures Mar 08 13:24:46 * DocScrutinizer replugs again Mar 08 13:26:01 crashanddie: :-O you been at some conspiracy meeting? Mar 08 13:26:43 nah, REBOOT :-((( Mar 08 13:31:20 crashanddie: literally? Mar 08 13:32:05 tybollt: no, I'm holding ice to my face just to really make a point on a metaphor Mar 08 13:32:22 jeebuz what the hell happened? Mar 08 13:33:03 I was taking pictures, just candid/street photography, some guys didn't like that. Mar 08 13:33:24 as in guards, police... or just random dudes? Mar 08 13:33:42 random dudes Mar 08 13:33:45 bloody hell, that is fucked up... Mar 08 13:33:47 crashanddie: ouch ... i think it was a stupid french reaction ... don't know that can happen elsewhere Mar 08 13:33:52 they've been arrested, everything's been caught on CCTV Mar 08 13:34:09 oh Mar 08 13:34:14 sweet then Mar 08 13:34:31 crashanddie: where did you take those picture ? Mar 08 13:34:36 I mean... that they got caught... Mar 08 13:34:41 yep, getting punched in the face must be well sweet, as long as the person who did it gets banged up..? Mar 08 13:35:51 no Mar 08 13:36:00 the fact that they got caught is sweet.... Mar 08 13:36:05 the rest is just fucked up... Mar 08 13:57:25 hi Mar 08 13:57:28 MHeiGB18030C-Medium Light 12 Mar 08 13:57:40 =dejavu sans momo? Mar 08 13:57:43 and btw Mar 08 13:57:51 why that strange name Mar 08 13:57:52 ? Mar 08 14:05:47 FIQ: certainly not Dejavu. No idea about the name. Mar 08 14:06:11 FIQ: seems to be mainly targeted for a non-latin script, the latin glyph shapes are not very balanced. Mar 08 14:07:54 been playing with gqview Mar 08 14:08:11 it is so much faster than photo app Mar 08 14:10:17 did you think flyspray is simple enough for a simple user to add bug in the tracker ? Mar 08 14:15:28 sorry DocScrutinizer - had gone for lunch :) Mar 08 14:15:32 back now :D Mar 08 14:16:11 Khertan: I like flyspray Mar 08 14:16:41 * Khertan like flyspray too :) Mar 08 14:16:57 but it s maybe not so easy for simple users Mar 08 14:18:22 Khertan: thank you for your help :D Mar 08 14:20:59 Khertan: in that case, no bug tracker is "easy" for simple users. Mar 08 14:21:33 Probably, for a "simple" user, the hardest task you can ask of him is to click on one of 5 stars to rate a program. Mar 08 14:21:47 I think that's about as far as it can get. Mar 08 14:23:42 noobmonk3y: your welcome ... thanks for using my packaging tool :) Mar 08 14:24:59 What did you think of encapsulating a whole python program by a try: except: BugReportInterface.display() Mar 08 14:25:01 ? Mar 08 14:25:44 Khertan: didnt know i had another option - anyway it is incredibly user friendly :D Mar 08 14:26:05 oooo debugging? :D Mar 08 14:26:26 debugging ? Mar 08 14:26:31 what did you mean ? Mar 08 14:26:32 :) Mar 08 14:27:34 the bugreporter thing ? Mar 08 14:28:07 yep ... i ll try to make a bug reporting ui for my apps Mar 08 14:28:22 cool :D Mar 08 14:28:25 ah Mar 08 14:28:26 will be better to invite user Mar 08 14:28:37 and as i cannot modify bugs.maemo.org Mar 08 14:28:46 Shapeshifter: they will click these randomly Mar 08 14:28:47 i ll modify my custom flyspray install :) Mar 08 14:28:54 Moo all btw Mar 08 14:29:02 but then, why says debian dejavu is installed but i'm unable to choose it? Mar 08 14:29:34 (arm debian, maemo didn't have it in repos at all) Mar 08 14:33:05 reboot needed of the webbrowser due to firefox extension added Mar 08 14:33:07 bye :) Mar 08 14:43:13 RST38h: ^^ Mar 08 14:44:18 * Shapeshifter sees that, as expected, downloading 3.3GB of map data over wireless makes for swift battery depletion. Mar 08 14:49:39 Meanwhile: http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/08/microvisions-show-wx-laser-pico-projector-available-to-buy-toda/ Mar 08 14:49:57 (and yes, it does cost like two N900s :)) Mar 08 14:50:27 Is that an official unit of measurement now? Mar 08 14:50:54 derf seems reasonable Mar 08 14:50:56 "This laptop costs 3 N900's." Mar 08 14:51:04 lol Mar 08 14:51:13 luke found out today his year head has an n900 Mar 08 14:51:23 that measurement fails when the ucky few who got free n900's join in ;) Mar 08 14:51:33 lcuk - healthcheck in testing :D Mar 08 14:51:34 nahh it just throws out the stats a bit Mar 08 14:51:37 RST38h: I've seen that one "live" at the embedded world in nuremburg. Mar 08 14:51:50 nomis: is it really that great? Mar 08 14:51:58 Presumably for currency conversion purposes you use the current N900 price on the spot market. Mar 08 14:52:08 good point derf Mar 08 14:52:18 which countries prices? ;) Mar 08 14:52:20 lol Mar 08 14:52:24 US of course Mar 08 14:52:27 suppose it depends where you are buying the laptop Mar 08 14:52:36 This leads to significant opportunities for arbitrage, of course. Mar 08 14:52:42 laptop worth 3xN900 Mar 08 14:52:43 that's a lot Mar 08 14:52:47 Although I kinda suspect it will work with any currency Mar 08 14:52:51 :D is it 3 * as good? ;) Mar 08 14:52:53 my laptop is worth 1,2N900 Mar 08 14:52:58 can you use it as a phone? hehe Mar 08 14:53:12 RST38h: it is less bright than one would hope, but the no-need-for-focussing is cool. Mar 08 14:53:30 nomis: =) Mar 08 14:53:59 it has the typical laser speckle patterns though, which might be a bit tricky to get used to. Mar 08 14:54:13 moire patterns? Mar 08 14:54:26 those arent speckle patterns, those are the cells in the back of your eye melting Mar 08 14:54:42 remember children: do not look into the projector with your remaining eye Mar 08 14:54:56 RST38h: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speckle_pattern Mar 08 14:54:57 lcuk: Better: "Do not direct this projector at a mirror" Mar 08 14:55:05 Possibilities for disaster boggle the mind Mar 08 14:55:16 lcuk: they also had a HUD-installation there based on the same technology. Mar 08 14:55:39 nomis: ah interesting Mar 08 14:55:45 re Mar 08 14:55:51 lcuk: why? Mar 08 14:55:52 Oh, is that one of those holographic laser projectors? Mar 08 14:56:25 lcuk: it's less bright than normal projector Mar 08 14:56:37 * lardman again wishes for a digital compass after seeing some of these: http://econsultancy.com/blog/4288-10-mindblowing-augmented-reality-apps-and-videos Mar 08 14:56:38 lcuk: it's safer to look into it than into normal projector Mar 08 14:56:39 worst case scenario you can just be fitted with a VISOR so its not end of world Mar 08 14:56:49 derf: not sure about the holographic. Apparently it uses micro-mirror scanning stuff. Mar 08 14:56:56 If they're in a consumer product, they're presumably class 1 lasers. Mar 08 14:57:34 well, you could burn out eyes with properly focused incandescent light Mar 08 14:57:51 just takes more work Mar 08 14:58:02 Of course. Laser safety ratings are always for the "unaided human eye". Mar 08 14:58:14 derf: class 1 laser is actually enough to cause minor damage Mar 08 14:58:51 200W bulb from 1cm will cause more damage Mar 08 14:59:21 * lcuk lobs a 20w bulb towards jacekowski Mar 08 14:59:26 i bet that does damage too ;) Mar 08 14:59:37 jacekowski: Not sure how you are gonna stick your eye so close to a 200w bulb Mar 08 14:59:47 then again every other kid today has those crazy strong green lasers they shoot at police officers and planes... Mar 08 14:59:58 that scares the living diddley out of me Mar 08 15:00:02 but yes, it takes effort and determination to damage your eyes with an incandescent bulb Mar 08 15:00:07 nomis: Anyway, the holographic stuff uses diffraction patterns, not mirrors. Mar 08 15:00:23 Well, there may well be mirrors involved somewhere, of course. Mar 08 15:00:33 tybollt: you can do same thing with incandescent light bulb and couple lenses Mar 08 15:00:34 But it's not the primary means of producing the image. Mar 08 15:01:13 or halogen lamp + couple lenses Mar 08 15:01:15 jacekowski: point is - can that be something as small as a pencil? Mar 08 15:01:28 tybollt: it can Mar 08 15:01:33 OMG Avatar lost. Mar 08 15:01:48 What are all the fans gonna do? Mar 08 15:01:54 Go watch it again. Mar 08 15:02:01 tybollt: i think small hallogen bulbs go up to 100W Mar 08 15:02:01 And make it another $2.5bln. Mar 08 15:02:11 tybollt: + couple lenses Mar 08 15:02:16 tybollt: and you can make plane crash Mar 08 15:02:30 ok Mar 08 15:02:40 lasers are just more efficient Mar 08 15:02:46 I'd much rather be James Cameron than Katherine Bigelow, even if I didn't bother to see his movie, and I saw hers. Mar 08 15:02:46 * RST38h has not watched Avatar. Hehe. Mar 08 15:02:51 and easier to focus Mar 08 15:03:54 RST38h: it's actually quite cool if watched in imax Mar 08 15:04:10 * DocScrutinizer starts to drool over specle atterns of his 150mW green laser Mar 08 15:05:09 150 mW? That's not class 1. Mar 08 15:05:12 thresh: Yea, but I hate the noise and the fake "catharsis" around it Mar 08 15:06:29 * edheldil starts to drool over his 150 MW green laser ;-) Mar 08 15:06:43 nah, who cares classX Mar 08 15:06:58 edheldil: try not to drool at while it's on Mar 08 15:07:00 edheldil: :-DD Mar 08 15:07:10 Well, if you've got proper safety gear, it's fine of course. Mar 08 15:07:47 time for some Death Star demonstration, muhahaha .... Mar 08 15:07:51 edheldil: Was that a capital "M" by the way? Mar 08 15:08:08 can'rt read anymore :-( Mar 08 15:08:32 looked at the spot on a white wall ;-P Mar 08 15:09:10 Usually you don't have to worry about eye damage from scattered light until class 4. Mar 08 15:09:21 (e.g., over 500 mW) Mar 08 15:09:36 derf: not exactly damage, but a dark spot Mar 08 15:10:15 "Try not to look at the laser with your remaining eye" Mar 08 15:10:16 Class 4 also causes skin damage. It's good stuff. Mar 08 15:10:22 photo flashlight would've been worse :-P Mar 08 15:11:00 I've got a 20W welding laser down in the lab Mar 08 15:11:14 * DocScrutinizer wonders if a 10mW 420nm laser might cause some damage to skin as well Mar 08 15:11:15 goodies Mar 08 15:11:16 and green glasses Mar 08 15:11:30 lardman: can has it to playz? ;) Mar 08 15:11:53 ooh actually 405nm Mar 08 15:12:04 arachnist: you want to burn pencils and ablate test samples too...? Mar 08 15:12:11 lardman: :) Mar 08 15:12:18 mine's iirc 808nm Mar 08 15:12:43 lardman: red enough :-D Mar 08 15:12:45 * noobmonk3y yawns Mar 08 15:12:46 lardman: i'd burn my old phone Mar 08 15:14:19 arachnist: RAZR? =) Mar 08 15:14:28 derf: actually a green 3W laser didn't do any harm to my skin Mar 08 15:14:29 can't see speckle patterns with mine, though I could probably see the negative if I took my glasses off and burned them into my retinas Mar 08 15:14:38 RST38h: se k800i Mar 08 15:15:21 E: Handler silently failed :( apt-get Mar 08 15:15:23 I do have a shearography kit with 4 laser diodes at 568nm or thereabouts to produce wide area speckle, but that's too bright too look at for long Mar 08 15:15:33 derf: except one single time when it felt like a short hit of a needle Mar 08 15:15:40 lardman, isnt that what got you into trouble the last time Mar 08 15:15:46 RST38h: i might actually use it with my nagios^Wicinga installation, but that'd require me to get a pre-paid Mar 08 15:15:51 * derf waits a few years for DocScrutinizer to develop skin cancer. Mar 08 15:16:14 lcuk: I did think I'd done something to one of my eyes yeah, seems to have got better though which is good Mar 08 15:16:16 derf: but that friggin device actually shot a permanent black spot to my right eye's rhetina Mar 08 15:16:41 wow Mar 08 15:16:44 * lcuk gets you an eye patch Mar 08 15:16:58 has Nokia made the N900 more buggy yet? Mar 08 15:17:08 just noticed that there's a directory fremantle-1.2 on repository.maemo.org Mar 08 15:17:12 I'll make sure not to work in the lab with you, then. Mar 08 15:17:21 You and lasers don't sound safe together. Mar 08 15:17:38 * Arif_ points a green laser at derf Mar 08 15:18:04 * noobmonk3y blinks Mar 08 15:18:21 derf: the red ones are designed to be used without eye protection to produce speckle, no idea what happened to my eye or even whether it was me Mar 08 15:18:29 derf: the setup wasn't mine, supid employer's multimedia show, with the laser *behind* the service bridge, exactly in eyes' level Mar 08 15:19:10 * lcuk notes to goto morgan freeman errr simon pickerings lab when a resonance cascade failure occurs Mar 08 15:19:23 and we had to walk the bridge all day to service the Kodak projectors Mar 08 15:20:09 people with those laser shows seem somewhat safety-lax Mar 08 15:20:43 * lcuk wonders where morgan camer from Mar 08 15:20:47 of course i meant gordon Mar 08 15:20:54 flash? Mar 08 15:21:51 lardman: that particular guy was the most crazy boss I ever had Mar 08 15:23:40 hmmm coffee or tea... what a tough decision...... Mar 08 15:24:23 coffee Mar 08 15:25:56 noobmonk3y, tea made in cold water and steeped using laser light Mar 08 15:26:26 lol lcuk - naaaa, would still be at work in a week if i tried that method Mar 08 15:27:10 Hehe, Apple continues removing apps from AppStore Mar 08 15:27:10 o_O maemo planet feed has picture of female with umm what appears to be bouncy funbags! Mar 08 15:28:31 w000p Mar 08 15:28:47 * RST38h thumbs it down =) Mar 08 15:29:14 Even worse: I don't see her carrying a phone. Mar 08 15:29:17 lol RST38h you just want to touch them whichever way Mar 08 15:29:39 range, she has a pedometer attached to her chest Mar 08 15:29:46 or swingometer or something Mar 08 15:29:59 infact, it might just be a pebble she found on the floor Mar 08 15:30:21 kinetic bazookas! Mar 08 15:30:37 Actually, the study of an optimal place to attach the dynamo to female breasts, for effeciency, definitely deserves a DARPA grant Mar 08 15:30:54 +1 Mar 08 15:30:56 With women in the military, etc Mar 08 15:31:03 thats worth at least 4 n900s Mar 08 15:32:08 RST38h++ Mar 08 15:32:09 could probably use piezo bra-straps Mar 08 15:32:21 RST38h: With which office? Mar 08 15:32:23 RST38h: could work as well for real fat guys Mar 08 15:33:23 derf: Marines! Mar 08 15:33:42 for large males wouldnt a small turbine between the manboobs be a better idea - to make use of the sweat flow Mar 08 15:33:45 No, I meant of DARPA. Mar 08 15:34:01 Maybe STO? Mar 08 15:34:06 derf: No idea, but I am sure good doctors will figure it out Mar 08 15:34:23 I don't know that we normally do much business with them, but we might still be able to get someone to bring it up. Mar 08 15:34:54 derf: That will probably beat the last record, by MIT Mar 08 15:35:02 * lardman still can't see any easily convertable electronic compasses Mar 08 15:35:22 convertable?? Mar 08 15:35:27 derf: "Finding nude people on background made of black/red velvet" Mar 08 15:36:09 tybollt: well usable or easily converted for use with an n900 Mar 08 15:36:29 ah Mar 08 15:36:38 lardman: like a hw hack? Mar 08 15:36:48 tybollt: I'd prefer a bt jobbie Mar 08 15:36:49 or like a BT enabled thing Mar 08 15:37:04 the latter Mar 08 15:37:30 though have we seen a picture of the N900's board anywhere, I still wonder if there's one hidden on there still.... Mar 08 15:37:47 Ok, work. Mar 08 15:39:47 lardman: ? like it is soldered on the board but no device driver is there? Mar 08 15:40:03 yep Mar 08 15:40:18 or like it's solderedon the board but the pins aren't hooked up (why on EARTH they would do this?)= Mar 08 15:40:21 ? Mar 08 15:40:45 not sure how realistic my hope is mind you, but it still seems odd to not have one, esp when the N97 has one Mar 08 15:41:13 it does? Well now... Mar 08 15:41:17 gets intriguing Mar 08 15:41:18 lardman there is n900 striptease videos out and someone has posted links to the deep service manuals afaik Mar 08 15:41:44 lcuk: I saw a service manual, but not circuit diagrams and no video of the complete board Mar 08 15:41:58 just stuff like removing the screen, kb, etc. Mar 08 15:42:01 if i spot one ill let you know Mar 08 15:42:05 ty Mar 08 15:42:11 didn't the madhats over at engadget/ginzmodo dissasemble theirs? Mar 08 15:42:19 and made a video out of it Mar 08 15:42:50 did they? Mar 08 15:43:16 I recall there being a video out shortly after the official release Mar 08 15:43:20 or were they pics? Mar 08 15:44:01 humm. so I downloaded the openstreetmap planet.bin and inserted into /home/user/.navit/navit.xml (which didn't exist) and now Navit crashes on startup. And why does it run in gdb when launched from the CLI. Mar 08 15:44:27 tybollt: the ones I've seen leave the shield in place over the main board, so you can't see the chips Mar 08 15:47:48 is there a repository where I can get drnoksnes 1.3.0 along with the libraries? Mar 08 15:48:16 because drnoksnes is not on repository.maemo.org anymore and qole.org has 1.2.4, which is backlevel Mar 08 15:48:50 dr schlocksnes is ghone? hwahahaha Mar 08 15:48:51 hmm, there are some pictures in here (http://www.nokiausers.net/forum/nokia-n900/32388-nokia-n900-rx-51-service-manual-service-level-1-2-a.html) but not detailed enough to read easily Mar 08 15:52:35 hmmm i feel working at home this afternoon sounds like a plan Mar 08 15:52:37 i need a whack-a-kitten game Mar 08 15:52:44 lol pupnik........ Mar 08 15:52:56 hmm Mar 08 15:53:00 that could be rev_kathy's first game? :D Mar 08 15:53:45 Jaffa, extras decoders ins't a daemon afaik, is a enabler right ? Mar 08 15:54:46 * Shapeshifter suspects the file is too big for the n900 navit version.. Mar 08 15:54:52 adds gst pipeline elements doesn't it VDVsx? Mar 08 15:55:15 lardman, think so, some extra codecs Mar 08 16:11:12 hmm, seems even when resistive screens pick up multitouch, capacitive fans (or should i say ip* fans?) finds a reason to stay with capacitive, as if the specific implementation issues are inherent in the technology... Mar 08 16:13:00 before I got the n900 I was very concerned that the resistive screen would annoy me. now I don't care at all. I even think it's hugely superior due to better accuracy. Mar 08 16:13:16 * Shapeshifter couldn't play openttd on 800x480 on a capacitive screen Mar 08 16:14:07 VDVsx: Indeed. But SSH server is the same. User installs stuff and other stuff happens. If no manual interaction is required in X Terminal, it shouldn't have the X Terminal icon. Mar 08 16:14:26 VDVsx: However, x11vnc does require X Terminal to start it. SSH server starts automatically, so is different. Mar 08 16:14:38 VDVsx: SSH *client*, of course, should have the icon ;-) Mar 08 16:15:20 Hi again ! Mar 08 16:15:31 hum ... +i on channel again ? Mar 08 16:15:45 wb Khertan Mar 08 16:15:47 Jaffa, but you can control it from the command line, so is a CLI app ;) Mar 08 16:16:16 wb Khertan Mar 08 16:16:56 hi Khertan Mar 08 16:17:04 hi lardman Mar 08 16:17:25 ok ... so flyspray now setted Mar 08 16:17:37 need to report actually open bugs on bugzilla to it ... Mar 08 16:18:32 noobmonk3y: i think for my bug reporting interface i ll made a simple module that can be use easily so maybe you ll be able to use it too in your HealthCheck apps :) Mar 08 16:18:52 but it ll not works with bugzilla Mar 08 16:19:07 so maybe i should add a email report option Mar 08 16:19:09 :) Mar 08 16:19:28 as i don't think you want that report is made to my bugtracker Mar 08 16:19:29 :) Mar 08 16:20:16 ooo i'm intruiged Khertan .... does sound very interesting :D Mar 08 16:20:31 hello everyone Mar 08 16:20:40 i'm looking at getting the n900 and have been hearing mixed reviews Mar 08 16:20:48 lcuk seems to be my sole bug at the moment.... I might ask that goes and buys an iphone to save me the trouble ;) Mar 08 16:20:53 especially in regards to bluetooth and disabling wifi Mar 08 16:21:03 josephnexus: - I love it :D - but i'm biased Mar 08 16:21:11 Disabling wifi is easy, icon on desktop.... Mar 08 16:21:21 ok, and regarding bluetooth? Mar 08 16:21:35 Bluetooth works fine for me, what specifically do you need? (Ptrovich an app, will allow you to send anything) Mar 08 16:21:46 Bluetooth DUN is also an app Mar 08 16:21:47 * lcuk can use your earlier apps noobmonk3y just not latest variation Mar 08 16:21:54 http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N900-Unlocked-Computer-Touchscreen/product-reviews/B002OB49SW/ref=cm_cr_dp_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar Mar 08 16:22:02 ahhh, lcuk, your n900 is ancient though ;) - it runs on steam power Mar 08 16:22:03 that's the review that has me worried Mar 08 16:22:30 well its hostname is liq-n00 ;) Mar 08 16:22:52 hmmm gimme a sec to fully read... but seems odd brb 1 min Mar 08 16:23:08 ok Mar 08 16:23:11 Note: regardless of what people say, there is NO way, zero, none, nada, to turn off the wifi radio via graphical interface. - lol ;) Mar 08 16:23:25 i figured i'd ask the community Mar 08 16:23:26 i love OSS Mar 08 16:23:35 and so i knew there would be an IRC channel Mar 08 16:23:36 :-p Mar 08 16:23:38 hehe... well there are some good reviews... Mar 08 16:23:44 i know Mar 08 16:23:44 ive just seen a desktop widget for disabling wifi Mar 08 16:23:46 he dowes raise some concerns that you can should be aware off Mar 08 16:23:52 that can be answered in why you want the device ;) Mar 08 16:23:54 and you can of course enable flight mode Mar 08 16:23:57 as every choice is personal. Mar 08 16:23:57 and turn off all radios Mar 08 16:24:07 i've never liked smartphones Mar 08 16:24:13 If you use it 24/7 the battery will not be great... but better then some other devices i have had Mar 08 16:24:25 my current phone lasts 3 hrs under use Mar 08 16:24:28 so i'm not too worried Mar 08 16:24:31 and usually i'm near power Mar 08 16:24:34 not liking smartphones is not a good start, but as the OS and the phone is new Mar 08 16:24:38 it takes a while to get apps out Mar 08 16:24:47 Other stuff: The battery charges much faster now, but it also drains much faster. There are some great apps starting to show in the pipeline. A lot of hard work from the community going on and new things are showing up daily in devels and testing repositories. They just aren't hitting extras (production) fast enough. Mar 08 16:24:50 LOL .... Mar 08 16:24:54 So when he wrote it the icon (Probably was out), but he prob didnt see it, or it was in testing Mar 08 16:24:57 the amazon review Mar 08 16:25:04 the reason i've disliked smartphones is 1) speed Mar 08 16:25:05 lol Khertan - that made me laugh too Mar 08 16:25:18 i had an ipaq that i had to wait 30 seconds for the dialing interface to come up Mar 08 16:25:21 and then i'd dial Mar 08 16:25:26 and wait 15 seconds for the number to appear Mar 08 16:25:28 Ok 1) - this this is blistering fast.... (For me, but i'm used to e71's, etc...) Mar 08 16:25:29 it was a pain Mar 08 16:25:35 think that's a windows mobile thing :P Mar 08 16:25:40 i figured as much Mar 08 16:25:46 the second thing is handling all of my data Mar 08 16:25:51 i have about 6 GB of email Mar 08 16:25:55 that i plan on moving to this device Mar 08 16:25:57 n900 has torrent client Mar 08 16:25:59 last night i was on the n900, on irc, in a car, talking to lcuk... i was browsing the web.... i had emails and im going, i had music playing... and the whole thing kept going happily Mar 08 16:26:15 yeah, i understand that speed isn't an issue Mar 08 16:26:24 :-P Mar 08 16:26:28 that's why i'm considering this one Mar 08 16:26:34 next thing, syncing Mar 08 16:26:38 can I sync with linux? Mar 08 16:26:40 ahhh good q :) Mar 08 16:26:42 ouch .... the vote are so bad on amazon ! Mar 08 16:26:43 noobmonk3y: hope you were the passenger :) Mar 08 16:26:48 i think so - not best to ask me, but anyone else? Mar 08 16:26:59 or do I need to set up an IMAP server Mar 08 16:26:59 mtnbkr: - yup gf the taxi driver did a fine job! Mar 08 16:27:10 and forget about syncing the calendar? Mar 08 16:27:21 3rd... bluetooth bluetooth bluetooth... Mar 08 16:27:24 how well does it work? Mar 08 16:27:40 josephnexus: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45721&highlight=linux+sync Mar 08 16:27:45 i use bluetooth for my headset on the computer Mar 08 16:27:59 and would of course, use the same headset for this Mar 08 16:28:03 what headset have you got? heard of some issues with some devices Mar 08 16:28:04 clearly ... the calendar syncing is only working well with exchange 2003 ... (and not google exchange or exchange 2007) at least from what i read on talk.maemo.org Mar 08 16:28:22 khertan - works fine on nhs.net exchange.... (2007) Mar 08 16:28:23 hope it can sync contacts with google apps Mar 08 16:28:30 that's good to have on WM Mar 08 16:28:39 noobmonk3y: good to hear it Mar 08 16:28:48 i think kathy and i are the only special ones though ;) Mar 08 16:29:11 is that a wontfix? Mar 08 16:29:16 ok Mar 08 16:29:16 i mean the 2007 main issues Mar 08 16:29:26 syncing isn't too big of a concern... cuz i'll be using this device for most of my stuff Mar 08 16:29:31 and I assume that the IMAP client is good Mar 08 16:29:40 josephnexus: in short - hmmm... possible issues with some ways, but there are allways multiple ways to do things :) Mar 08 16:29:40 so that's not too big of an issue Mar 08 16:29:44 how's the bluetooth... Mar 08 16:29:47 ? Mar 08 16:29:51 josephnexus: the imap client isn't the best .... but it s a good one Mar 08 16:29:58 imap works for me on one of my personal emails, and yahoo mail works fine via nokia messaging Mar 08 16:30:01 that was a sticking point in that review Mar 08 16:30:09 What headset have you got? Mar 08 16:30:12 imap would be on my own corporate server Mar 08 16:30:15 it's just a generic one Mar 08 16:30:21 for making calls and such Mar 08 16:30:24 worth looking at if it will work with yours, i've only used it to connect to my tomtom, worked fine Mar 08 16:30:46 people say it works fine with the recommended headset ... but other then that, you may have to look at the forums Mar 08 16:30:47 did you have disconnection issues, or do those appear fixed? Mar 08 16:30:58 With the tomtom, stayed connected for 6 hours :D Mar 08 16:30:59 hmm, I do sometimes get the feeling that users don't understand what the thumbs up/down represent for the packages Mar 08 16:31:01 well... bluetooth should be bluetooth Mar 08 16:31:02 :-P Mar 08 16:31:19 i mean... this one adheres well to the bluetooth headset standard Mar 08 16:31:29 it works out of the box on my ubuntu workstation Mar 08 16:31:39 hi Mar 08 16:31:42 video calls, can this do it? Mar 08 16:31:57 should be fine no issues..... remember that the people who complain outnumber the people who have it working fine.... Mar 08 16:32:00 ahhhhh Mar 08 16:32:04 now thats a toughy Mar 08 16:32:04 josephnexus: not yet with skype, but apparently should come with the next update Mar 08 16:32:08 the front c am is painfully bad Mar 08 16:32:18 This mini-USB with n810? http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26783 Mar 08 16:32:20 is it a lighting concern? Mar 08 16:32:23 it works on IM video, so skype / google IM etc, but specifically when pc to phone Mar 08 16:32:30 its a 1mb camera concern lol Mar 08 16:32:45 as said by lardman - should be sorted soon Mar 08 16:32:45 1mp or 1mb? Mar 08 16:32:49 1mp Mar 08 16:32:57 back cam is the carl zeiss one Mar 08 16:32:57 1mp as a webcam will suffice Mar 08 16:33:04 the back i know is superb Mar 08 16:33:09 the front is what i'm asking about Mar 08 16:33:09 :-p Mar 08 16:33:14 :D Mar 08 16:33:18 brb 5 mins phone Mar 08 16:33:23 ok Mar 08 16:33:48 I found the front cam to be very usable Mar 08 16:33:56 ptl, what apps use it? Mar 08 16:34:08 however, I'd still prefer 3G videocalls over google and MSN videocalls Mar 08 16:34:21 is it possible to do that currently? Mar 08 16:34:23 see you later ... bye Mar 08 16:34:25 josephnexus: google talk (comes with the device) and aMSN Mar 08 16:34:29 ah Mar 08 16:34:29 ok Mar 08 16:34:38 and support for skype should be soon Mar 08 16:34:43 no 3G videocalls though Mar 08 16:34:43 which makes me happy Mar 08 16:34:48 why not? Mar 08 16:34:50 and I'd like skype videocalls too but it seems it doesn't work Mar 08 16:34:55 I dunno Mar 08 16:35:03 ok Mar 08 16:35:07 but over wifi it's fine? Mar 08 16:35:39 well... i'm gonna head out Mar 08 16:35:43 it's fine but for google talk videocalls I couldn't find any way to initiate the videocall Mar 08 16:35:46 only to accept Mar 08 16:35:46 and then everything goes fine, you can see the other person and such Mar 08 16:35:50 most of my questions have been answered Mar 08 16:35:56 I've made a lame blurry youtube video out of it Mar 08 16:36:00 thanks a ton ptl, and crew Mar 08 16:36:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX-9DBBaCD0 Mar 08 16:36:13 looks like i'll be ordering on the 16th Mar 08 16:36:32 yw Mar 08 16:36:48 cool Mar 08 16:36:50 enjoy! Mar 08 16:37:08 Can you use 5-pins Male A USB to micro USB socket in N810? Mar 08 16:37:40 So... has anyone got navit working with openstreemaps? Since I enabled the map in navit.xml (which I copied from /etc/) navit crashes on startup. I tried the planet.bin as well as just europe. Mar 08 16:42:36 Shapeshifter: not tired in a long time I'm afraid Mar 08 16:42:43 s/tired/tried Mar 08 16:42:58 lardman: it's packaged now in fact. Mar 08 16:43:24 cool Mar 08 16:44:13 oh Mar 08 16:44:17 now its working Mar 08 16:44:19 magically. Mar 08 16:46:03 woah, so much for working at home this avo... almost 5pm lol Mar 08 16:46:41 cu later chaps Mar 08 16:47:05 huh Mar 08 16:47:15 these guys have even placed bench symbols on the map Mar 08 16:48:12 <_berto_> http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nokia/ Mar 08 16:49:12 n900 passed the n95 ? :D Mar 08 16:49:20 Shapeshifter: some get a bit obsessed. Mar 08 16:49:51 no yet ;) Mar 08 16:50:00 err - not close Mar 08 16:50:00 SpeedEvil: this is quality ^^ Mar 08 16:50:10 <_berto_> it passed n97 Mar 08 16:50:19 126 daily users versus 527 Mar 08 16:50:38 Shapeshifter: where are you? Mar 08 16:50:54 SpeedEvil: switzerland Mar 08 16:52:35 'rank' is 5 - which isn't bad. n95, 5800, e71, 6300, n900 Mar 08 16:53:43 I'd love to see a map of geotagged photos of hte n900 Mar 08 16:54:29 extrapolate from http://pininthemap.com/maemo Mar 08 16:55:15 2% of active n900 users as iphone 3g Mar 08 16:56:04 g:) Mar 08 16:58:26 SpeedEvil: Earthscape on iPhone was really cool for that. Mar 08 17:08:49 Anyone connected n810 with Teensy++ with the USB-mini B to USB-micro B connector? Mar 08 17:09:37 * Noobmonk3y waves Mar 08 17:09:48 gotta love xchat :) Mar 08 17:09:59 hehe Mar 08 17:11:19 mhh. is there some way of enabling a mouse cursor on the n900? I mean globally. Mar 08 17:11:51 dont think globally Mar 08 17:14:22 Noobmonk3y: pessimist ;) Mar 08 17:14:37 it's linux. anything goes. Just which way... Mar 08 17:18:12 lol Mar 08 17:19:52 is there a way to see the new applications that appear on a repository? Mar 08 17:21:20 ...no? Mar 08 17:22:08 ...yessss? how? Mar 08 17:22:56 ok, I'll take that as a yes, but you don't want to tell me the secret :( Mar 08 17:23:06 app watch application Mar 08 17:23:55 * cehteh misses dselect Mar 08 17:26:25 I need rigth connectors between n810 and Teensy++. I have found USB-micro B to USB-mini B, but I think it should be USB-micro A to USB-mini B. Any experience? Mar 08 17:27:19 no idea sry Mar 08 17:28:40 Noobmonk3y: installing.... Thanks, Noobmonk3y Mar 08 17:31:29 lardman, "your" bug was finally fixed :D, your t-shirt will not make sense next summit :( Mar 08 17:31:37 VDVsx: I know :( Mar 08 17:32:11 I think this is meego fault :D Mar 08 17:32:14 then again meego doesn't even have a pane like that, so it probably wouldn't have anyway! Mar 08 17:32:19 lol Mar 08 17:32:49 I'll just know who the old skool members are, those who laugh at me (more than normal :)) Mar 08 17:35:08 np ptl Mar 08 17:36:39 Am I witnessing the first-ever lockup of my device? I just installed appwatch and the app manager froze Mar 08 17:36:50 it has been a few minutes already. Is there any way to force it to terminate? Mar 08 17:37:06 power button end task Mar 08 17:37:58 ctrl+shift+x ps aux kill Mar 08 17:38:06 I'm finding app manager finishes spinning its little spinny thing, then sits there doing nothing until I go back a page then forward again Mar 08 17:38:18 lol Mar 08 17:38:33 App Manager just gets slower the more hardware we get. Mar 08 17:38:57 it is rather craptastic compared to Apple's fare Mar 08 17:39:14 though it's far faster to list installed packages than Andoid is Mar 08 17:39:59 I wonder if the push for RPM with meego was because of ".deb is slow, see the app manager!" Mar 08 17:40:16 power button is not responding Mar 08 17:40:21 lemme try ctrl-shift-X Mar 08 17:40:49 ctrl-shift-x does not respond Mar 08 17:40:51 nomis: who knows, but the slowness appears to just be in the ui app (or the lib it links against) rather that apt on the command line Mar 08 17:40:55 lardman, android is even slower ? Mar 08 17:41:09 VDVsx: yeah, you can ask it to show installed packages and it takes an age Mar 08 17:41:11 lardman: yeah. It is fantastically slow compared to the debian tools. Mar 08 17:41:19 Does anyone have any insight into this: http://blog.mmn-o.se/2010/03/08/nokia-wants-to-link-to-your-flickr-account/ Mar 08 17:41:37 presents a list then starts filling in the details, though it does show space consumed per-package so that must be rather time consuming Mar 08 17:41:49 a yellow light just blinked and went off Mar 08 17:41:58 ptl: above your head? Mar 08 17:42:07 no, on the N900 Mar 08 17:42:12 ;) Mar 08 17:42:21 charging light perhaps? Mar 08 17:42:39 no... battery was more than halfway up Mar 08 17:42:47 had to reboot... Mar 08 17:42:53 my first ever hangup :/ Mar 08 17:43:59 awwwwwww Mar 08 17:44:09 pity, appwatch works ok Mar 08 17:44:58 I wonder when this next update to Qt 4.6.x will be, lots of apps that require a 15.5Mb download..... Mar 08 17:49:51 PR 1.2 will be huge Mar 08 17:49:59 there's a whole new repository section for it Mar 08 17:51:57 lol Mar 08 17:52:25 * SpeedEvil wonders if pr1.1.1 will hit the uk Mar 08 17:52:45 PR? Mar 08 17:53:25 humm. Mar 08 17:54:28 * SpeedEvil passes Shapeshifter a sheet of words. Mar 08 17:54:29 Production Release, I think Mar 08 17:54:31 it's how they name the updates Mar 08 17:54:48 ah Mar 08 17:54:51 SpeedEvil: I think we've already had it....? Mar 08 17:54:53 SpeedEvil: why thank you :) Mar 08 17:56:22 it's just that, as the maemo people kinda took normal keyboard keys and then just made custom keyboard layouts for every version it seems. which is kinda stupid I think Mar 08 17:56:24 * Noobmonk3y blinks Mar 08 17:57:17 because now that I learned of x2x, I have to press things like altgr-V on my desktop to get a "/". Why didn't they just use normal keyboard layouts and added the n900 keys to the map. Mar 08 17:58:08 lardman: for various sorts of we Mar 08 17:58:40 SpeedEvil: no ota for you then? Mar 08 17:59:01 I wonder if that's why they are so adamant about making BT keyboards not work Mar 08 17:59:12 good Lord, 3 axis electronic compasses are bloody expensive Mar 08 17:59:21 lardman, how much? Mar 08 17:59:25 lardman: no Mar 08 17:59:30 lardman: no, they're not Mar 08 17:59:41 lardman: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=1967220&k=HMC5843 Mar 08 17:59:46 true, but in a form that requires little soldering they seem to be Mar 08 18:00:09 ah Mar 08 18:00:25 well - you only actually (IIRC) need 5 connections to that one. Mar 08 18:00:30 but, yes Mar 08 18:00:33 no idea how they go from $20 to $200 just by adding tilt compensation Mar 08 18:00:43 need an accelerometer of course Mar 08 18:02:27 I guys.. am about to sell my N900 so I can get a new one (Long story ok ok the old one hsa some dents) I am trying to back up some files like my contacts and conversations (sms, IM etc) How can I do it. AFAIK the N900 does not work with Ovi Contacts in the cloud. and I am on LInux so no Nokia PC Suite for me.. any tip? Mar 08 18:02:52 bigbrovar: use the inbuilt backup app? Mar 08 18:02:56 ^^ Mar 08 18:03:16 lardman: does that back up contacts and conservations ? Mar 08 18:03:37 yeah, certainly contacts, conversations too I think Mar 08 18:04:48 lardman: am not sure about the conversations... They is a options that says communications and calendar (not sure if the communications means my sms and IMs ) Mar 08 18:05:33 lardman: come to think of it. it doesnt say anything about contacts :( re: N900 backup Mar 08 18:05:36 dunno, I always tick all and restore all, and I am pretty sure my conversations come back Mar 08 18:06:07 certainly my contacts do Mar 08 18:10:08 lardman: same here.. any idea where the db for the conversation thingie is saved.. Mar 08 18:16:09 bigbrovar: ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db ? Mar 08 18:17:49 andre__: thanks .. any idea if the backup tool on the N900 also backs up conversation and contacts? am about to sell my N900 to buy a new one and I want to be sure I would have convesation and contacts backed Mar 08 18:18:25 conversations: for me it always did. contacts: never tried Mar 08 18:18:45 well, back up to external card, reflash device, restore, see results :) Mar 08 18:18:51 but I guess it does Mar 08 18:18:52 andre__, lol @ the email thread. Mar 08 18:18:55 I'm playing around with my new N900, but does anyone know the default user password? And why can't I change it with passwd? Mar 08 18:19:09 reggna, default password for what? tried 12345? Mar 08 18:19:25 GAN900, want some popcorn too for watching it? :-) Mar 08 18:20:31 andre__: Just found the answer on the wiki, thanks. :) Mar 08 18:20:31 andre__, corn allergy, I'll stick with the chips. :P Mar 08 18:20:43 andre__, I just don't get people. Mar 08 18:21:06 andre__: thanks :) Mar 08 18:21:13 GAN900: "same here, but I get paid for it" ? :-P Mar 08 18:21:16 bigbrovar, np Mar 08 18:29:31 :) Mar 08 18:29:40 * Shapeshifter wonders if it's a good idea to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf on the n900... Mar 08 18:30:08 prob not :) but why not Mar 08 18:30:59 * AndrewFBlack wonders why its so quiet today Mar 08 18:31:04 well if sshd still starts even if X is kaput it's no problem Mar 08 18:31:18 and it should. if this was real linux. Mar 08 18:33:07 Shapeshifter: but you might have problems connecting to network without X Mar 08 18:33:17 :) Mar 08 18:33:22 lol... typing "Xorg" on the CLI just for laughs says the usual and after that: "Please consult the Nokia support at http://www.nokia.com/" as if that would do any good. Mar 08 18:33:40 Corsac: mhh, right. Mar 08 18:34:18 * Shapeshifter wants to enable the mouse cursor. Mar 08 18:35:57 there's so much missing on the n900 -.- Mar 08 18:37:00 ? Mar 08 18:37:17 I removed /etc/rc2.d/*ssh and sshd it still starting at the reboot Mar 08 18:37:31 where do I remove it so it doesn't start automatically? Mar 08 18:37:56 better pick the package apart Mar 08 18:38:06 wait, rc.d? Mar 08 18:38:22 remove /etc/init.d/sshd Mar 08 18:39:46 no, no, I don't want to remove the initialization script for the ssh daemon. Just unconfigure it from starting up. Mar 08 18:40:48 well what i *do* know is that it is launched by the X init, not by the normal runlevel control Mar 08 18:42:11 but as i said, you'll have to pick apart the package to see where it really gets installed Mar 08 18:44:27 lardman: stop appearing in my facebook :( Mar 08 18:45:57 I want a lardman too in my Facebook! Mar 08 18:45:59 * andre__ adds lardman Mar 08 18:46:08 humm humm, lot's of stuff in /usr/share/icons/default/cursors/ Mar 08 18:46:15 andre__ ;) Mar 08 18:46:39 sshd is starting from /etc/event.d Mar 08 18:46:55 Stskeeps: hey! what's wrong with me! Surely with less exposure on the maemo.org front page you're happy to see me everyday in facebook!? Mar 08 18:47:08 ha! and they're all symlinks to transp Mar 08 18:47:13 Stskeeps, same here, lolololol Mar 08 18:47:45 now is wazd :D, heheheh Mar 08 18:51:58 * lardman has now done his Facebook visiting for the year Mar 08 18:52:36 :) Mar 08 18:53:00 Hi. I'm flashing a N810 hw 0704. Extracted the image and everthing ran fine until "sudo flasher-3.5 -n initfs.jffs2 -f" now no device is found any more. Any hints? Mar 08 18:53:24 -n is for initfs? Mar 08 18:53:46 White background with nokia logo and the tool below Mar 08 18:53:55 Got that from the wiki Mar 08 18:54:22 are most of you guys using the standard browser with PR 1.1 or firefox? Just trying to get an idea whether I should get firefox myself Mar 08 18:54:40 Stskeeps:yes to load the initfs Mar 08 18:54:42 * haltdef would want firefox - weave :> Mar 08 18:55:04 ope it can be made to use a custom server though, windows build of fennec only asks for a username and password in the gui Mar 08 18:55:09 Is firefox still unusably slow? Mar 08 18:55:17 Weave would be awesome though Mar 08 18:55:35 (Althoug having a ginormous history on a phone might also slow it down) Mar 08 18:55:41 anyone used dosbox? Mar 08 18:56:36 moo Mar 08 18:56:37 ! Mar 08 18:56:49 Anyone know how to read accelerometer data via python on the N900? Mar 08 18:57:02 I agree! Mar 08 18:57:50 :| Mar 08 18:57:57 stupid keyboard setup Mar 08 18:58:30 "mv: cannot stat 'transp': Too many levels of symbolic links" what is this supposed to mean? Trying 'mv mynewpointer transp' in /usr/share/icons/default/cursors Mar 08 18:59:21 Wild_Doogy: it's on the wiki, there are several ways Mar 08 18:59:42 yay, I have hope. on to the Wiki Mar 08 18:59:46 Thanks Mar 08 19:00:08 Wild_Doogy: http://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers Mar 08 19:00:17 specifically: http://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers#Python Mar 08 19:00:19 Thanks again! Mar 08 19:00:25 yw Mar 08 19:00:30 Can i safely shut down the device or remove the battery? Mar 08 19:01:32 oh damn Mar 08 19:01:54 now it doesn't boot. Mar 08 19:02:02 bbiam, need to get rid of WinXP Mar 08 19:02:04 * ioeee saluda o/ Mar 08 19:02:13 :O Shapeshifter Mar 08 19:02:15 r-d mode then Mar 08 19:02:37 does anyone know the story behind fmradio doing "software" audio routing? Mar 08 19:02:39 on the N900 Mar 08 19:02:43 hi Mar 08 19:03:18 ptl: r-d mode? Problem is, I get past puttin in my pin, my boot video shows, and at the end of it the boot process hanged. Now it booted fine. Mar 08 19:03:23 *shrug Mar 08 19:03:36 I have an N900 and wonder if the email client supports TLS with self signed certificates? Mar 08 19:03:36 * javispedro is reading about the audio codec, which seems to have line in -> line out hardware pass through mode like every other sound card. Mar 08 19:05:02 javispedro: I would assume that all sound goes through alsa and/or pulseaudio which both are software components Mar 08 19:07:10 puzzled: yes, that is the current situation -- but why not do that on hw like you'd do on your desktop, specially considering it would save a ton of power, and the audio codec is capable of it. Mar 08 19:07:52 the only answer I can think of is "it would break the speakers" :) Mar 08 19:08:44 javispedro: makes sense although I use Fedora 11, 12 & 13 on my desktops and afaik everything goes through alsa/pulse Mar 08 19:08:57 javispedro: yes, it is possible to break the speakers with iirc too much bass Mar 08 19:09:05 sorry, missed the start of the conversation Mar 08 19:09:21 lardman: yes, but I'm just noticing that might be the actual issue. Mar 08 19:10:02 you asking why the bass is not dialled back in the driver rather than using pulse? Mar 08 19:10:08 route the fm radio audio via the analog bypass and watch the speakers crumble and self-destroy under the "bassness" of your average local stations. Mar 08 19:10:11 w000t! I got a mouse pointer Mar 08 19:10:19 hello i still can't film with my n900, since it says me "Operation failure" when i try to, somebody got this problem ? Mar 08 19:10:22 ah, fm stuff Mar 08 19:10:36 davyg: does the camera work for stills? Mar 08 19:11:26 shapeshifter : a permanent one? Mar 08 19:12:11 lardman, what ? Mar 08 19:12:24 can you take still photos? Mar 08 19:12:35 ok, what is the recipe? what did you do in xorg.conf? Mar 08 19:12:35 Noobmonk3y: yes!!! but it's kinda hard to trigger. :| I copied a "real" cursor to /usr/share/icons/default/cursors/transp but after a reboot it still was missing. I googled around and found this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42485&highlight=mouse+pointer from 2007 and it still worked! went to youtube, started a video, clicked on the video, and the cursor appeared :) Mar 08 19:12:38 dosbox :| Mar 08 19:12:39 lardman, yes Mar 08 19:12:40 ccan you take still pictures with it? ie a camera Mar 08 19:12:49 and it's permanent. this is superb. I need to find out an easier way but I love the cursor Mar 08 19:12:53 shapeshifter cool! Mar 08 19:12:56 Yay! Python knows which way is down!!! the possibilities are endless!. Mar 08 19:12:57 sar3th: what happens with dosbox? Mar 08 19:13:06 davyg: what does dmesg show when you see the failure message? Mar 08 19:13:13 lol doogy! Mar 08 19:13:13 javispedro: the keyboard does only work partially Mar 08 19:13:17 after you see the message even Mar 08 19:13:22 I can use my damn mouse to steer the n900. how brilliant is this. Mar 08 19:13:43 food time! Mar 08 19:13:46 bbiab Mar 08 19:13:47 sar3th: did you read the readme, or the multiple forum posts about that on talk.maemo.org? Mar 08 19:14:02 lardman, i look at that, i didn't tought to that, Mar 08 19:14:30 javispedro: well, i couldn't find the readme, and the search function shows many irrelevant hits, so i haven't found the solution yet Mar 08 19:14:52 sar3th: "rover.sys" is your keyword here. Mar 08 19:15:46 thanks Mar 08 19:17:53 it doesn't say a lot of think, no error for sure, active and inactive message about cam_launch end focus Mar 08 19:20:52 hmm Mar 08 19:20:53 Noobmonk3y: nooo, the cursor disappears when I launch openttd :'( Mar 08 19:20:57 I found another bug :P Mar 08 19:21:11 awwwwwww sods law!!! Mar 08 19:21:28 when holding the left arrow key in the media player Mar 08 19:21:32 while playing a song Mar 08 19:21:42 it'll skip back from the end of the song Mar 08 19:21:42 javispedro: will there be support for other codepages in rover.sys in the future Mar 08 19:21:45 frals: reply via SMS could be nice to have in MMS menu! I think that usually people don't need to reply with MMS Mar 08 19:21:52 sar3th: other codepages or other layouts? Mar 08 19:21:53 and it'll go back to the end and continue skipping back :D Mar 08 19:21:57 i mean layouts Mar 08 19:22:11 Shapeshifter: if you install the maemo sdk I can tell you how to show the mouse in openttd. Mar 08 19:23:14 sar3th: unfortunately, not, since it's just too much work. In the future I plan to use another method. Mar 08 19:24:17 nobody ? Mar 08 19:24:35 hm okay Mar 08 19:24:38 javispedro: mh? I have the sdk installed. why? Mar 08 19:24:52 the game runs almost perfectly, but it's slow :| Mar 08 19:24:59 slow motion mode :P Mar 08 19:25:05 Shapeshifter: cause you have to rebuild openttd to get it to show the mouse pointer; i removed support for it entirely. Mar 08 19:25:16 javispedro: ahh. what a pity :> Mar 08 19:25:22 nah, not now ;) but thanks Mar 08 19:25:35 but cursors are awesome. Why do people remove them... Mar 08 19:25:42 too nerdy Mar 08 19:25:45 "/* Don't ever draw the mouse for WinCE, as we work with a stylus */ Mar 08 19:25:45 " Mar 08 19:25:52 same reason :) Mar 08 19:26:31 javispedro: well, if you update openttd next time, why not include mouse support again? :) Mar 08 19:27:14 has someone ported extremetuxracer to the N900 yet? Mar 08 19:28:22 ptl: I saw it in some repo Mar 08 19:28:41 ptl: but after launching it, the menu was distorted and I couldn't play Mar 08 19:28:52 w0000000p Mar 08 19:29:00 Shapeshifter: because nobody wants a mouse pointer, so I'd have to make it a setting, and more settings is moore work. Mar 08 19:30:30 :D Mar 08 19:30:31 javispedro: eeeverybody wants a mouse pointer. they just don't know it yet ;) Mar 08 19:31:05 * noobmonk3y wants a mousepointer.... :) honest Mar 08 19:32:03 javispedro: sooo, what would I need to do in scratchbox to recompile openttd with mouse pointer support? Mar 08 19:33:41 Shapeshifter: sb-conf se FREMANTLE_ARMEL, apt-get source openttd, apt-get build-dep openttd, edit openttd-0.7.4/debian/patches/series, remove "hide-cursor" line, cd openttd-0.7.4, dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us, install resulting openttd .deb package. Mar 08 19:35:30 javispedro: thanks! Mar 08 19:35:54 sometimes I wish there was a more global, elegant solution. All SDL games suffer from this. Mar 08 19:37:26 lol :) Mar 08 19:37:31 nice guide though :) Mar 08 19:38:01 hmmmmm is there a specific guide to N900 specific terminal commands, or system layout etc? Mar 08 19:38:27 i mean i can pull out ip address etc etc etc, but is there a list of it all? Mar 08 19:38:30 but really. for at home this is going to be awesome. I'll need to look into a couple of other things like turning on the screen when going to the n900 with the mouse or the keyboard layout which is a bit weird to get used to when on the desktop. but this all pretty much means that I'll have the laptop on the right, the desktop in the middle, and right below it a tiny n900, all being governed by the same mouse and keyboard :) Mar 08 19:38:46 lol Mar 08 19:39:02 anyone into compiling (super)tuxkart? Mar 08 19:39:46 unless it's OpenGL|ES, it's much more than "compiling". Mar 08 19:40:17 ahaok Mar 08 19:40:38 i'm not much for a developer Mar 08 19:40:57 even the mouse wheel works Mar 08 19:42:41 :| Mar 08 19:42:45 ioquake 3 Mar 08 19:42:51 it works well Mar 08 19:42:54 sar3th: how to exit? Mar 08 19:43:07 Shapeshifter: that's my problem right now XD Mar 08 19:43:13 :) Mar 08 19:43:24 restarting phone now Mar 08 19:43:33 i think you need to bind the menu to some key Mar 08 19:43:47 sar3th: I hit every possible key combination and the menu showed up Mar 08 19:44:01 it didn't show up for me Mar 08 19:44:10 on the other hand, i used my pc's config file Mar 08 19:44:35 oh, and i had another problem Mar 08 19:44:50 i always turned left :| Mar 08 19:52:29 javispedro: all that worked, except dpkg -i complains: pre-dependency problem: openttd pre-depends on openttd-data (= 0.7.4-1maemo2) openttd-data is installed, but is version 0.7.4-1maemo3. Can I tell apt to just ignore this? Mar 08 19:52:56 Shapeshifter: yes, but an appropiate openttd-data has been built for you too :) Mar 08 19:53:15 so installing it will be a more clean solution :) Mar 08 19:53:36 javispedro: oh it has? Mar 08 19:53:52 yes, same directory as the .deb you just installed. Mar 08 19:53:57 javispedro: ahh Mar 08 19:54:16 brilliant. thanks. Mar 08 20:18:37 on n900 i can get 62 to 36 percent cpu load reduction while playing http://listen.kaosradioaustin.org/kaos-128 Mar 08 20:18:54 wow! Mar 08 20:19:07 Who did you have to kill/ Mar 08 20:19:50 PA Mar 08 20:20:35 were gonna get that down even further if i can Mar 08 20:20:38 :-) Mar 08 20:20:42 that's with mplayer? Mar 08 20:20:47 y Mar 08 20:20:48 at 250MHz? Mar 08 20:21:11 forgot the cpu speed locker cmd Mar 08 20:22:35 cpuinfo says 250 Mar 08 20:23:10 for some reason i have reasonable volume atm Mar 08 20:23:53 watch cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state Mar 08 20:25:04 ty! added an alias for that Mar 08 20:25:28 it is great seeing one bar in cpumem applet instead of three Mar 08 20:26:25 Who wanted a Microsoft ebook here? Mar 08 20:26:31 sure Mar 08 20:26:35 wait ebook? Mar 08 20:26:36 cehteh: You? Mar 08 20:26:39 nevermind Mar 08 20:26:44 cehteh: enjoy: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/03/midhybrid-20100308-600.jpg Mar 08 20:32:37 time mplayer -ao null -benchmark -endpos 100 http://listen.kaosradioaustin.org/kaos-128 Mar 08 20:32:51 for me wants 33s of user Mar 08 20:32:56 @250MHz Mar 08 20:33:15 Which isn't really terrible. Mar 08 20:34:36 SpeedEvil: have you tried microwave transformer on it? Mar 08 20:34:48 SpeedEvil: higher voltage makes it go really fast Mar 08 20:36:07 pupnik_: echo 250000 >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq Mar 08 20:36:19 jacekowski: I am at the moment in the process of overclocking my microwave. Mar 08 20:36:28 yeah but that doesnt measure the PA cpu use Mar 08 20:36:36 (well - my mains voltage is 220 - it's persistantly low. Mar 08 20:36:42 pupnik_: of course not. Mar 08 20:36:52 (and the microwave is rated for 240) Mar 08 20:42:19 man it is fun seeing how things perform at 250! can it go lower SpeedEvil ? Mar 08 20:42:37 I haven't checked. Mar 08 20:42:41 I would suspect so. Mar 08 20:42:48 There may be constraints. Mar 08 20:42:58 feels like n810 :) Mar 08 20:43:03 For example - the display controller may not work at nominal clock at under 250MHz Mar 08 20:43:44 seems like it isnt set up for it Mar 08 20:43:58 * SpeedEvil opens the 3000 page CPU manual. Mar 08 20:45:22 now the sound is super quiet again :(( Mar 08 20:48:13 i cant get it up! :( Mar 08 20:48:32 lol Mar 08 20:48:37 * noobmonk3y will be back in a bit Mar 08 20:52:42 lost all audio :( bbl Mar 08 20:54:43 how do one mount a smb share on a n800? Mar 08 21:04:29 LOL Mar 08 21:04:43 look! the chinese N900! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOW_IaB3S4c Mar 08 21:06:02 does it run meego? Mar 08 21:06:39 ptl: "Latest Nokia Style Cellphone" Mar 08 21:06:49 ripoff Mar 08 21:07:00 ahhahaha Mar 08 21:07:09 Runs MTK firmware no doubt Mar 08 21:08:15 why hasn't meego been ported to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mar 08 21:08:50 N900: Nobody needs it there? Mar 08 21:09:29 meego *will* be ported to it, and all those devices Mar 08 21:09:50 might even happen before meego gets ported to the real n900 Mar 08 21:10:16 indeed. Mar 08 21:10:30 i found out how to get full volume with pasuspender SpeedEvil ! you start a normal mpayer then pause it - that "holds it open" f then a second one can play bypassing PA at fullvol Mar 08 21:11:01 pa with mpalyr idle seems to use cpu here Mar 08 21:11:28 pupnik, oh. the clocking is _ridiculous_ Mar 08 21:11:37 ? Mar 08 21:12:03 pupnik, well ove 111 pages of the datasheet deal with it. Mar 08 21:12:10 i got music wif 1 bar cpu and that makes pupnik HAPPY Mar 08 21:12:13 ah Mar 08 21:12:34 just do wavs :) Mar 08 21:13:45 am avoiding full vol though Mar 08 21:16:08 why? Mar 08 21:16:39 speaker protextion may be disabled Mar 08 21:17:09 should be really Mar 08 21:21:14 ah Mar 08 21:21:42 anyone clever who can help someone install pulse audio tools? Mar 08 21:21:48 I question if it's speaker protection if it doesn't distort. Mar 08 21:21:54 squirrel is haing probs here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=560484#post560484 Mar 08 21:22:07 i cant figure it out :( Mar 08 21:22:20 ok totally sound Mar 08 21:22:31 broke sound Mar 08 21:22:52 you can see a high pass cutoff filter settable in alsamixer Mar 08 21:23:15 alsa-utils restart doesnt help Mar 08 21:26:56 how do one mount a smb share on a n800? with a default samba install on my debian pc, it's not visible in filemanager Mar 08 21:27:20 but I can connect from another pc Mar 08 21:27:25 LuserN800: had enough space on it up to now :-) Mar 08 21:27:59 LuserN800: dont know if all kernel modules are in maemo kernel for that? Mar 08 21:28:06 the kernel is very minimal Mar 08 21:28:19 did not even got NAT working on it Mar 08 21:28:33 kernel is ok. the ui is minimal.. Mar 08 21:28:55 LuserN800: ok, then you use another kernel then I am using :-) Mar 08 21:29:15 LuserN800: mine does not have jfs, masquerading,.. Mar 08 21:29:17 Markus23, the wiki says the latest firmware have support by default Mar 08 21:29:51 Markus23, ouch for masquerading.. Mar 08 21:30:15 I probably could edit fstab but I thought it was possible with the ui Mar 08 21:30:36 LuserN800: thanks for tipp with masquerading, in PR1.1? Mar 08 21:30:43 I have tried it with that the last time... Mar 08 21:30:56 where did you get that info? Mar 08 21:31:05 LuserN800: fstab is rewritten everytime at boot Mar 08 21:36:02 * Noobmonk3y grumbles Mar 08 21:36:57 * Arif_ throws the N900 media player at Noobmonk3y Mar 08 21:37:36 lol Arif_ Mar 08 21:37:38 you broke it Mar 08 21:37:44 pff Mar 08 21:37:48 flac support is not reading my tags now Mar 08 21:37:50 it's broken by design Mar 08 21:37:50 :( Mar 08 21:37:59 fix it, now :P Mar 08 21:38:00 what's wrong with it :o Mar 08 21:38:02 I really have the feeling its written in like 2 hours Mar 08 21:38:07 :P Mar 08 21:38:19 I accidentally came accross something stupid today Mar 08 21:38:25 play a song and hold the left arrow Mar 08 21:38:54 it'll continiously skip back the same song all the time :D Mar 08 21:39:16 is it the only video player that can use hardware acceleration like on modern HTC devices under WM? Mar 08 21:39:22 * haltdef stabs WMP Mar 08 21:39:51 yes Mar 08 21:39:55 and its a terrible player :P Mar 08 21:40:08 anyone here have a virtualbox image for maemo? Mar 08 21:40:14 I wanna test before buy :D Mar 08 21:40:34 not possible for other players to implement hardware acceleration or has nobody got around to it yet? Mar 08 21:40:40 you should get an iPhone :P Mar 08 21:40:44 frankS2: you won't get the touch-feeling :-) Mar 08 21:40:48 hehe Mar 08 21:41:04 haltdef, I heard mplayer and VLC are working on it... Mar 08 21:41:39 that's good to know, it just isn't possible on my x1, no documentation on how to use the gpu Mar 08 21:41:44 and the cpu is useless for anything Mar 08 21:41:50 good job qualcomm, bastards Mar 08 21:42:15 THIS IS LOONIX POWAH Mar 08 21:42:15 :P Mar 08 21:42:34 I.....just have no idea how to use it -.- Mar 08 21:42:41 * Noobmonk3y blinks.... who throws media palyers!!! Mar 08 21:42:58 all the bugs will eat you Mar 08 21:42:59 :P Mar 08 21:43:28 is vlc and mplayer not really usable atm then or usable just with high cpu usage Mar 08 21:43:36 awwwww.... n900 bug farmer.... lol Mar 08 21:43:59 big reason for me wanting to ditch my x1 is for video playback :P Mar 08 21:44:36 Hey chaps, I may have found a way to make python do a time wait without using 100% cpu to do it. import commands; commands.getoutput("sleep 1") Mar 08 21:44:39 480p x264 mkv, <480p xvid avi I want to play mostly, 576p x264 mkv support would be handy but not too important Mar 08 21:44:51 if you send me some samples I'll try :P Mar 08 21:44:59 ooooo cool :) nice Mar 08 21:45:08 XviDs work fine in the built in player Mar 08 21:45:27 Arif_: what are you talking about re hw acceleration? Mar 08 21:45:28 you guys are converting .mkvs to play on the N900? Mar 08 21:45:32 anything below 800x480 should play with high CPU on MPlayer though Mar 08 21:45:33 let me know how that works Mar 08 21:45:45 high cpu but smooth? Mar 08 21:45:46 anything that uses the gst pipeline will use the hw acceleration Mar 08 21:45:58 I was hoping for 720x576 to play :p Mar 08 21:46:06 720x576 plays Mar 08 21:46:09 but not smooth Mar 08 21:46:10 :( Mar 08 21:46:13 :( Mar 08 21:46:15 Wild_Doogy: please use time.sleep() that hurts Mar 08 21:46:24 that's ok, will be rare that I'd want to play those Mar 08 21:46:47 Markus23: true, but it uses 100% cpu while it "sleeps" Mar 08 21:46:59 Wild_Doogy: on n900? Mar 08 21:47:13 I hope for fw updates/Moogo to have better codec support and hardware support Mar 08 21:47:17 +acceleration Mar 08 21:47:39 On my desktop.... I havent checked N900 Mar 08 21:47:41 is that something that can be done by the community? Mar 08 21:47:52 I don't know :( Mar 08 21:47:55 testing now Mar 08 21:48:03 Arif_: what acceleration is currently not being used? Mar 08 21:48:10 already miles better than playback on my x1 so far, looking good :p Mar 08 21:48:30 * Arif_ hopes so though :p Mar 08 21:48:53 the video chip is only used by the built in player Mar 08 21:49:04 and the built in player is written in 2 hours :p Mar 08 21:49:41 mmmm, this thing gets toasty after a few min @ full burn Mar 08 21:49:54 stop using it as cup warmer :P Mar 08 21:50:00 -warms hands using N900- Mar 08 21:50:02 Arif_: video chip? what sort of hw acceleration do you think it has? Mar 08 21:50:10 lol Mar 08 21:50:19 though I don't disagree that it looks like it was written in 2 hrs ;) Mar 08 21:51:47 the N900 has a hw gpu doesn't it :p Mar 08 21:51:58 yes Mar 08 21:52:09 several Mar 08 21:52:22 * Arif_ waits for Mplayer to use them Mar 08 21:52:25 not powerful enough to do more than what the built in media player already does with it or something? Mar 08 21:52:31 but the video acceleration is performed by the IVA part of the DSP Mar 08 21:52:49 N900evil: several? I didn't know that. Mar 08 21:52:53 sweet Mar 08 21:53:01 and the gstreamer pipeline uses the DSP (though there may well be room for improvement), and the media player uses gstreamer Mar 08 21:53:33 therefore, if a media player uses gstreamer, it will have the same hw acceleration caps as the built in player Mar 08 21:54:13 now that's not to say that the DSP couldn't be used better and/or that the ARM and DSP codecs couldn't be optimised Mar 08 21:54:25 I see Mar 08 21:54:39 Markus23: you were correct. time.sleep() does not use 100% on the N900. Now to see what ails my Desktop >_> Mar 08 21:54:53 but it is wrong to say that it doesn't use hw acceleration, despite looking like someone knocked it up in an afternoon (i.e. that's mainly the gui's fault) Mar 08 21:55:09 is the inability to play a video of a higher res than the screen a limitation of software or hardware? Mar 08 21:55:19 both probably Mar 08 21:55:34 I mean to say that only the built in player uses HW acceleration Mar 08 21:55:39 but doesn't support so many codecs Mar 08 21:55:39 the hw may not be able to decode something of that size, but the limit is probably hardcoded in the DSP codec Mar 08 21:56:01 by higher I mean only slightly higher, 720x576 Mar 08 21:56:16 slightly higher bitrate to support the higher res too :p Mar 08 21:56:27 haltdef: there was probably some spec for the codec, and they hardcoded the limit ;) Mar 08 21:56:32 720x576 XviDs play fine Mar 08 21:56:42 but x264s don't Mar 08 21:56:49 hmm! Mar 08 21:57:05 Arif_: well yeah, only some codecs are supported by DSP tasks (i.e. hw accelerated), but other players could use gstreamer to decode those in accelerated form too Mar 08 21:57:21 Arif_: are both decoded on the dsp? Mar 08 21:57:25 what does the pipeline look like? Mar 08 21:57:33 yeah, that's what I'm hopign to get supported soon Mar 08 21:57:40 don't get too technical :P Mar 08 21:57:46 sorry Mar 08 21:57:55 * Arif_ is a simple user =) Mar 08 21:58:02 is the cpu fast enough to software decode ~2500kbps 576p x264? :P Mar 08 21:58:21 haven't tried Mar 08 21:58:23 but I doubt it :P Mar 08 21:58:47 my msm72xx device chokes on <480p xvids Mar 08 21:58:49 so useless Mar 08 21:59:03 mplayer already has trouble keeping 512k x264 streams audio/video synced Mar 08 21:59:04 :P Mar 08 21:59:12 gst also didn't support framedropping iirc, not sure if it does now Mar 08 21:59:31 ouch, need some optimizations mebbe? Mar 08 22:00:01 Hi. I'm trying to get the hardware keyboard to work with Norwegian (it is a nordic phone) and Greek. (The virtual does). I tried modifying the ukeyboard file for the greek hardware keyboard layout to be greek and nordic (not US), but it didn't work. So any hints on which files I need to edit to get sth like this to work would be much appreciated Mar 08 22:00:55 for a N900 mobil Mar 08 22:01:00 haltdef: dev of the backend pipeline (i.e. gst) goes on upstream Mar 08 22:01:13 you've lost me now :P Mar 08 22:01:42 * RST38h moos at lardman, pupnik, VDVsx Mar 08 22:02:03 * Arif_ throws buggy media players with hardware acceleration at RST38h Mar 08 22:02:23 haltdef: the decoding bit is separate from the presentation bit Mar 08 22:02:43 * VDVsx moos back at RST38h :) Mar 08 22:02:46 Wild_Doogy: several in that there are GPUs in the 'graphics processing' sense - that do special stuff. Forex there is one that does camera processing Mar 08 22:02:47 the decoding bit is called GStreamer, and is developed upstream, i.e. by the original authors, not Nokia Mar 08 22:03:18 ah yes I get that Mar 08 22:06:28 oh man, the bugzilla email thread... makes me lose hope in humanity... Mar 08 22:06:43 why : Mar 08 22:06:44 ( Mar 08 22:07:00 well.. just the pampering people are taking for granted these days... Mar 08 22:07:19 Arif_, have you been playing with utilities for converting >480p videos for the n900 media player? Mar 08 22:07:30 nope Mar 08 22:07:48 I could do it with avisynth, megui etc but so much effort :P Mar 08 22:07:50 moo RST38h Mar 08 22:08:05 I only use megui to convert my own recorded stuff Mar 08 22:08:06 :p Mar 08 22:08:16 mm Mar 08 22:08:16 I'm so tired of the "This didn't work as I assumed, although it never said anywhere that it would! That means this sucks and must be killed with fire!" attitude. Mar 08 22:08:18 * Noobmonk3y moooooooo's Mar 08 22:09:27 but on a happier note, I've solved(ish) the disappearing widget problem I've been having with comic-widget. Mar 08 22:10:10 you stopped using it? Mar 08 22:10:14 Is joikuspot commercial version really reliable? Mar 08 22:10:39 I think 15 euros is way too much, i expected it to be less than 10 _$_ Mar 08 22:12:00 Arif_, well I guess I meant everyone was having that problem... Mar 08 22:12:31 well.. I fail to mount my samba share... can't find mount.cifs.. Mar 08 22:12:32 I have the opposite Mar 08 22:12:36 Arif_, and hopefully they wont have it with the latest version. Mar 08 22:12:37 my shortcuts disappear for no reason Mar 08 22:12:41 and reappear sometime Mar 08 22:13:39 Arif_, well this was specific to the comic-widget. Actually it just became invisible. Mar 08 22:13:50 Arif_, I don't have that problem. Mar 08 22:14:03 It clearly has superpowers! Mar 08 22:14:10 heh Mar 08 22:14:14 * Arif_ doesn't read comics Mar 08 22:14:28 buut anyway Mar 08 22:14:31 * Arif_ goes to sleep Mar 08 22:14:39 getting up early is evil :( Mar 08 22:14:57 quite. Mar 08 22:15:26 nn Mar 08 22:15:46 Arif_: you get up at around 6AM in some timezone everyday. Mar 08 22:16:14 sometimes yes Mar 08 22:16:15 :p Mar 08 22:16:30 it's even worse if you get up early occasionally Mar 08 22:16:35 makes it harder :( Mar 08 22:16:44 Cant find any place where to change alarms volume on N900, maemo 5. Could someone help me? Mar 08 22:17:06 Arif_: every day. Mar 08 22:19:37 iPeter-: looks to me like the volume should be added as a feature to the alarm Mar 08 22:19:53 right below "enable" Mar 08 22:20:52 pupnik: Could you tell that on some other way? :D Mar 08 22:22:03 pupnik: couldnt understand Mar 08 22:22:47 i suggest you check bugs.maemo.org for a feature request Mar 08 22:23:22 alarms should be configurable from alarm menu Mar 08 22:23:30 iPeter-, which way do you want it changing Mar 08 22:23:37 pupnik: So you are telling me there aint any possibility to change volume of alarm? Mar 08 22:24:17 iPeter-, volume up or down Mar 08 22:24:19 lcuk: It is too low volume. I got same alarm and ringtone sound. I hear ringtone very well, but i cant wake for that alarm. Mar 08 22:24:28 ,what if i listen to quiet music to fall asleep, but need a loud wake up, lcuk ? Mar 08 22:25:07 iPeter-, the alarm comes on as an increasing volume, with vibe too - try finding a foghorn sample Mar 08 22:25:36 ah good answer Mar 08 22:25:39 i find setting my alarm to my phone ringer has more wakeup potential Mar 08 22:26:14 oh that reminds me of a question I wanted to ask, can the alarm be set to pick a random mp3 from a list of a few? Mar 08 22:26:26 lcuk: Yeah, it is increasing but not enough. I just cant wake up with that tone level Mar 08 22:26:35 but if someone calls to me, i wake up. Mar 08 22:26:50 iPeter-, then set it to your phone ringer Mar 08 22:27:03 another N900 clone video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEvkI7sp1cM - this one has the keys right! And the layout is copied EXACTLY. That's impressive, really impressive. Mar 08 22:27:06 theres a connection in your head between "shit someones calling me" Mar 08 22:27:36 these chinese people are too bold Mar 08 22:27:36 hi lcuk Mar 08 22:27:41 lcuk: ? I said i have same tone on my alarm and calling tone Mar 08 22:28:03 and landscape/portrait switch seems to work better on this piece of crap than the real N900, lol Mar 08 22:28:37 sorry peter i just woke up myself after missing someone calling me lol Mar 08 22:28:42 hiya lardman Mar 08 22:32:14 Hmm Mar 08 22:32:18 why 51? Mar 08 22:32:25 So there aint any solution to increase volume of alarm Mar 08 22:32:27 ? Mar 08 22:33:18 iPeter-, not if the ringing and vibing doesnt work, follow pupniks advice and see if theres a brainstorm/bug/enhancement request Mar 08 22:34:05 lcuk: It rings and vibes. Mar 08 22:34:18 iPeter, you could make a really loud sound file and use that Mar 08 22:34:18 just not enough for you Mar 08 22:34:44 today my n900 was very slow when i switched it on Mar 08 22:34:44 * noobmonk3y blinks Mar 08 22:34:51 sluggish Mar 08 22:34:55 reboot helped Mar 08 22:35:01 anybody know the reasons for that? Mar 08 22:35:11 i booted it while on power Mar 08 22:35:13 today my N900 was awesome. 'nuff said. Mar 08 22:35:14 hmm, maybe ill let my mom wake me up then, ugh -.- Mar 08 22:35:17 iPeter-, http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=64476 Mar 08 22:35:24 could that be (an obscure) reason? Mar 08 22:36:28 choose a shrill alarm note Mar 08 22:36:31 lcuk, looks loud... Mar 08 22:36:43 it's pretty loud, do you sleep with it in another room and with earplugs? Mar 08 22:36:46 SIX PERCENT CPU mp3 playback! 12 percent total system load at 250mhz! :D :D :D Mar 08 22:37:04 pupnik: not using pulse I guess? Mar 08 22:37:07 pupnik???!? what? how? WANT! Mar 08 22:37:25 :o Mar 08 22:37:26 http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=9429 Mar 08 22:38:05 naah. I should record my youngest daughter when she's angry. Mar 08 22:38:10 Ears ringing everytime. Mar 08 22:38:11 lardman: yeah just bypassed. but finally i got volume loud Mar 08 22:38:18 stock mplayer mece Mar 08 22:38:54 lcuk: Thanks, but i have to go sleep. Ill keep tracking for info how to increase it or disable that "sofly increase volume" thing. Mar 08 22:38:58 pupnik: counting down till your speakers go ping? ;) Mar 08 22:39:25 alarmclock http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=78562 Mar 08 22:39:25 DocScrutinizer: were ou asking about temperature sensors yesterday? There is a 7 bit ADC inside the SoC, hooked to one. there may also be a thermometer of some sort on the SDRAM on chip. Mar 08 22:39:41 mece, that would work Mar 08 22:39:50 keeping volume at 80 pct lardman Mar 08 22:40:00 cool Mar 08 22:41:47 a micro player will go in theapplet menu i think. but how to get stable playback is not so easy Mar 08 22:42:01 haha http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=52906 Mar 08 22:42:13 i think having random one from a set would be uber cool Mar 08 22:42:32 set multiple alarms and have police and explosions and babies crying just to wake you up Mar 08 22:42:36 http://www.airhorns.co.uk/product.asp?lot=21&pnid=396&deptid=284 Mar 08 22:42:41 has lots of samples Mar 08 22:42:53 lol Mar 08 22:43:03 Also - USB version needed. Mar 08 22:43:06 http://www.airhorns.co.uk/product.asp?lot=21&pnid=197&deptid=287 Mar 08 22:43:17 * lardman does more googling for a bt compass Mar 08 22:43:55 lardman, i thought i2c was the bus you were aiming for Mar 08 22:44:05 and theres the honeywell model for that isnt there? Mar 08 22:44:06 pupnik, so are you using.. something, directly and leaving out the middleman (middleman being pulse) Mar 08 22:44:14 coupled with the spacer unit wont that fit inside Mar 08 22:44:27 lcuk: dunno, I'd prefer to not take the device apart Mar 08 22:44:56 is anybody maintaining a "todo for maemo"? Mar 08 22:45:16 indeed lardman Mar 08 22:45:31 hmm. Mar 08 22:45:33 but id rather not have an outrigged addon Mar 08 22:45:35 which cointains points like "don't alert for new mails during night" Mar 08 22:45:38 especially if theres space Mar 08 22:45:42 * SpeedEvil wonders on a compass as a SD card. Mar 08 22:45:45 or "save mails to imap" Mar 08 22:45:54 yeah mece, it is so nice to be in irssi, listen to my lectures, and see cpumem applet at BELOW one bar! Mar 08 22:45:58 also needs to be a 3 axis compass really Mar 08 22:45:59 Problem is that huge steel cover Mar 08 22:46:19 lardman, is the honeywell one not? Mar 08 22:46:25 that tube app demo was very cool Mar 08 22:46:36 lardman, which Mar 08 22:46:44 SpeedEvil: use gryo sensors for earth rotation? Mar 08 22:46:46 lcuk: not sure, I was looking for a unit that was more constructed, i.e. plug it into a board sort of thing Mar 08 22:46:47 * corecode ducks Mar 08 22:46:52 still getting crasors Mar 08 22:47:10 corecode: very unactive Mar 08 22:47:21 lardman, yeah - it would be good to make use of the spacer area as well as pluggable without much Mar 08 22:47:29 maybe we could build a keyboard that absorbs electricity from thumbpresses lardman Mar 08 22:47:34 so it just sat in spacer area and had contact with the pads Mar 08 22:47:39 patent! Mar 08 22:47:41 under the battery Mar 08 22:47:44 lol Mar 08 22:47:52 ooo who mentioned honeywell :) Mar 08 22:47:58 microusb cables for $1.90 Mar 08 22:48:05 original nokia, they say Mar 08 22:48:18 * noobmonk3y used to work for honeywell :D Mar 08 22:48:43 yay, compasses all round, thanks noobmonk3y ;) Mar 08 22:48:49 lol :) Mar 08 22:49:01 lardman, you could buy one of those android things and get it to push compass bearing to you Mar 08 22:49:19 * noobmonk3y 's dad still works there, good company to work for too :) Mar 08 22:49:37 lcuk: yeah, slight overkill though ;) Mar 08 22:49:42 just a tad Mar 08 22:50:01 might try that with my wife's phone though Mar 08 22:50:19 she was moaning about it, so perhaps if I can get her something else it could be a goer... Mar 08 22:50:32 honeywell makes some _insane_ stuff. Mar 08 22:50:33 There are processors that work at 250C Mar 08 22:50:33 8 bit - sure. But still. Mar 08 22:50:34 $400 IIRC Mar 08 22:50:51 not sure my fingers will work at that temp! Mar 08 22:51:04 http://www.honeywell.com/sites/portal?smap=aerospace&page=High-Temp-Electonics3&theme=T5&catID=C8CB0A123-D15A-925D-8BF2-3FBCC5E54BB7&id=H0F4347A8-B418-9BBF-51D2-4FE2F72E6EC1&sel=3 Mar 08 22:52:20 honeywell makes nealy verything, scary how big they are ;) Mar 08 22:52:26 nearly everything* Mar 08 22:52:30 * noobmonk3y can't type Mar 08 22:52:33 jees working in such extreme conditions means you would need some pretty extreme tape to mesh it together Mar 08 22:52:38 http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Health/Safety/Products/Related/?PC_7_RJH9U52300A9E023IJD0GR3O74_nid=XZ7F9199G9beHDSVSV648Cgl Mar 08 22:52:51 ooo yayness healthcheck is 8/10 thumbs up's w000p only 9 days to go now! Mar 08 22:54:19 * noobmonk3y feels the excitement in the room.... :D Mar 08 22:54:29 lol noob Mar 08 22:54:32 ;) Mar 08 22:54:41 * noobmonk3y gets a little over excited at times ;) Mar 08 22:54:48 so you need 2 thumbs? Mar 08 22:55:17 think i'd look a bit weird with 2 more thumbs, but healthcheck could do with it :) - hoping people are testing it properyl though :P Mar 08 22:55:22 properly* Mar 08 22:55:33 if my coding is as good as my typing i'm buggered Mar 08 22:55:41 :D Mar 08 22:55:47 confuzed Mar 08 22:55:53 dont you have other issues tho Mar 08 22:55:57 like it being qt Mar 08 22:56:04 lol with the gtk? Mar 08 22:56:07 no Mar 08 22:56:10 or just the fact it is qt? Mar 08 22:56:12 i mean with qt in extras Mar 08 22:56:23 wasnt there some sort of niggle Mar 08 22:56:43 the old qt isnt tho is it? Mar 08 22:56:50 i think thats just the new one :D Mar 08 22:56:55 or newer one Mar 08 22:56:55 i say we make meego based on VB6.0 Mar 08 22:57:01 hell yeah pupnik Mar 08 22:57:15 just basic will do ;) Mar 08 22:57:20 miss the old gorilla game Mar 08 22:58:24 +1 pupnik Mar 08 22:58:30 i did some vb last night Mar 08 22:59:41 lol, qbasic Mar 08 22:59:43 wow those honeywell modules are expensive (for the hobbyist) Mar 08 23:00:13 lardman: yes - but if you need electronics in a 250c environment - the alternatives are worse. Mar 08 23:00:14 3 axis, rs-232 output, ~$750 Mar 08 23:00:22 lardman: oh - not those. Mar 08 23:00:23 no, talking about the compass modules they make Mar 08 23:00:28 what is QTscript Mar 08 23:00:35 or qscript etc Mar 08 23:00:35 lardman: yeah - the integrated modules are stupid. Mar 08 23:00:43 like Javascript iirc Mar 08 23:01:00 lcuk: or perhaps it's not, hmm Mar 08 23:01:19 * lcuk wants arexx ports back Mar 08 23:01:21 SpeedEvil: wasn't me asking Mar 08 23:02:01 DocScrutinizer: k Mar 08 23:02:03 SpeedEvil: I just spotted the temp sysfs nodes Mar 08 23:03:08 SpeedEvil: any idea where to that tempsensor is mapped? Mar 08 23:04:10 lcuk: This way, you will start asking for multiple-resolution simultaneous displays in no time Mar 08 23:04:24 RST38h, of course! Mar 08 23:04:31 slide them in Mar 08 23:04:56 * lcuk used to love the headaches from using interlaced mode on old crt tv Mar 08 23:05:40 hmm, how do I go back a single revision in svn? Mar 08 23:05:48 revert I guess? Mar 08 23:06:03 i don't suppose anybody actually managed to get the N900 TV out to run interlaced yet... Mar 08 23:06:30 * RST38h had a deinterlacer Mar 08 23:06:45 A3000 was nice, yes Mar 08 23:07:02 the modulator on the a500 was evil Mar 08 23:07:12 it was 10x longer than it shouldv been Mar 08 23:07:21 was more like a gunclip Mar 08 23:14:04 hmm, any help with removing a change in svn? Mar 08 23:14:13 reverse merging I see, but it's not a happy chappie Mar 08 23:15:26 SVN doesn't like to change history Mar 08 23:25:34 ah well, I think I've worked out what I've done Mar 08 23:25:42 I'll change it by hand, thanks tho Mar 08 23:26:24 that's probably a sign that I should go to bed because I'm tired Mar 08 23:27:06 nite all, sweet dreams Mar 08 23:34:52 mehhhh Mar 08 23:37:49 RST38h, I suppose you've thought of top and bottom half of text window doing pgup/down and found it was nontrivial? Mar 08 23:37:54 xchat Mar 08 23:44:21 N900: eh? Mar 08 23:44:36 What pgup/down? Mar 08 23:45:22 what's the latest on USB host? works as host? requires powered hub? non-existent? Mar 08 23:47:08 tight... sleeeeep time! Nights alls :D Mar 08 23:47:10 right* Mar 08 23:47:15 omg wtf is up with my typing! Mar 08 23:47:20 i need new fingers....... Mar 08 23:47:29 and a new brain whilst at it Mar 09 00:00:07 UndrWater: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2010-March/015794.html Mar 09 00:02:35 anybody used golang from extras? I can't get it to link a .5 file. Mar 09 00:03:10 ..if it worksforyou I'd love to know. Mar 09 00:36:14 Is anyone here having trouble sending an email to their number@tmomail.net and having it arrive as an sms? Mar 09 00:36:26 * crashanddie is a pirate Mar 09 00:36:40 I has an eyepatch Mar 09 00:39:11 Cool Mar 09 00:39:14 Why? Mar 09 00:39:53 GAN900: was attacked by some youth yesterday evening Mar 09 00:39:55 for taking pictures Mar 09 00:40:09 Haha, that's . . . interesting Mar 09 00:40:16 Did they get you in the eye? Mar 09 00:40:22 got punched a few times in the face, I have corneal abrasion on my right eye Mar 09 00:40:22 ptl: how is that related? Mar 09 00:40:29 Damn Mar 09 00:40:33 Pics? :P Mar 09 00:40:35 hurts like a motherfucker Mar 09 00:40:50 nha, first run was OK, second time (when I had the encounter) I didn't get anything worthwhile Mar 09 00:40:56 Why the hell did they take offence to pictures? Mar 09 00:41:02 actually, didn't check the pictures yet, but doubt their'll be anything interesting Mar 09 00:41:13 s/their/there/ Mar 09 00:41:14 crashanddie meant: actually, didn't check the pictures yet, but doubt there'll be anything interesting Mar 09 00:41:16 and, seriously, what the fuck kind of insane kids do you have down there? Mar 09 00:41:27 fucking maori gipsies Mar 09 00:41:31 What about a self portrait? :P Mar 09 00:41:48 took one, can't find the usb cable and can't be bothered to search Mar 09 00:41:52 waiting for the meds to kick in Mar 09 00:42:04 actually, I'm just going to sleep Mar 09 00:42:15 talk later Mar 09 00:43:27 hello Mar 09 00:43:46 hi Mar 09 00:44:25 someone know how to make dbus call my own script on a event ? Mar 09 00:45:21 that works? Mar 09 00:45:31 don't you need to listen to events and then react? Mar 09 00:45:32 crashanddie: careful, they are cannibals Mar 09 00:45:44 cannibis? Mar 09 00:45:53 corecode, so I must create a daemon for this ? Mar 09 00:47:46 b0unc3: not sure, but that's what i've seen Mar 09 00:47:56 would be nice if you wouldn't have to Mar 09 00:48:09 or if there was a meta-daemon that calls scrips for you Mar 09 00:48:40 yes, I hope there is a better way than a daemon to do that Mar 09 01:00:45 corecode: below that initial message, you had lots of discussion about the usb host mode Mar 09 01:01:56 ptl: "[maemo-users] latest OS2008 and alarm"? Mar 09 01:02:22 ah i see Mar 09 01:02:29 somebody hijacked the thread Mar 09 01:02:58 AFAIK - nobodies come up with definitive answers for the n900 Mar 09 01:03:33 All Mar 09 01:03:33 new cellular phones in the EU must have a micro USB port as a connector Mar 09 01:03:35 for an ac adapter (in the future) Mar 09 01:03:37 what? Mar 09 01:03:39 haha Mar 09 01:03:46 who comes up with these regulations? Mar 09 01:04:01 standardisation ftw Mar 09 01:04:08 +1 Mar 09 01:12:50 how can I get vmstat for the N900? If I try to install it from the repositories it conflicts with the OS itself Mar 09 01:19:31 fine, I will compile by myself! :( Mar 09 01:19:39 wow, one of our W510s just self destructed Mar 09 01:20:18 what's a W510? Mar 09 01:20:29 oh, Lenovo Thinkpad Mar 09 01:29:51 need some advise Mar 09 01:29:58 Im adding 2tb to my NAS Mar 09 01:30:09 in a 2tb usb2 external drive Mar 09 01:30:20 im breaking it up into 3 partitions, 2 500s and 1tb Mar 09 01:30:49 should I make the 2 500s xfs and the 1tb reiser, or should I just make all 3 xfs Mar 09 01:31:01 the 1tb will be mostly for storage, but the 2 500s will be working drives Mar 09 01:31:08 make all ext3 :) Mar 09 01:31:42 ext3? I thought xfs had superior speed for smaller files, and reiser did a better job with large files Mar 09 01:31:47 xfs is best for large files, reiser3.6 is best for lots of small files, ext3 is the all rounder Mar 09 01:31:50 lol Mar 09 01:31:53 I was backwards Mar 09 01:33:07 perhaps I need to do more research Mar 09 01:33:21 I appreciate your response though, Ill definately go with ext3 for the two smaller drives then Mar 09 01:33:26 ext3 is also most mature, and relibility more important than speed, when fs speeds kinda negligable compared to diff spindle speeds diffences etc (afaik) Mar 09 01:34:26 its best to have ups for xfs in case of crash, but most ppl dont do that i bet Mar 09 01:35:36 if you want speed , go for raid1/raid10 instead of fs choice Mar 09 01:36:01 raid 0 etc Mar 09 01:45:11 xfs doesn't recover well from crashes during write? Mar 09 01:45:15 thats a big time deal breaker Mar 09 02:18:45 evening all.. Its marginally off topic (maybe) but I was wondering if anyone here had travled with the N900, specifically wondering if it's possible to disable data svcs while still allowing voice since t-mobile is going to charge me a freakin fortune for data svcs in costa rica Mar 09 02:21:35 You can set data to 'always ask' Mar 09 02:21:52 this means if you startup anything that wants a data connection, it will ask you if you want to continue. Mar 09 02:22:25 However - once the connection is up - there isn't an easy way of saying 'I only want to look at one small web page' - without any other app that wants to use it also using it. Mar 09 02:23:12 Anyone here have issues sending email to their number@tmomail.net from certain providers? I can get email to sms from yahoo, but not gmail or some of my own email servers. Mar 09 02:24:35 blizzow: usa? Mar 09 02:24:42 SpeedEvil: yes. Mar 09 02:24:52 don't think uk tmo does that Mar 09 02:24:59 so can't help. Mar 09 02:25:03 SpeedEvil: hrm.. And that'll take care of background apt-get update and stuff? Mar 09 02:25:50 I've looked at my t-mobile filters, there are none enabled. I can send email from my desktop to my phone via email, other servers though, t-mobile doesn't like apparently. Mar 09 02:25:53 grrr. Mar 09 02:28:05 SplasPood: it does nothing in the background if you have it off. Mar 09 02:28:18 SplasPood: that is if you've set it to always ask Mar 09 02:28:19 SpeedEvil: hrm, I think I can relax then, thank you Mar 09 02:28:30 also install gprs-data-counter Mar 09 02:28:34 or whatever it's calleed Mar 09 02:30:01 hi, how can I tether my laptop using my n900's T-mobile account? I've installed the Bluethooth DUN program and paired the device. Now what? Mar 09 02:30:32 newbie005: what Os? Mar 09 02:30:34 OS? Mar 09 02:30:52 Vista unfortunatly Mar 09 02:31:10 I think you'll have to create a new network connection in Vista. Mar 09 02:31:31 I don't have a vista box in front of me, but google will probably help with that. Mar 09 02:31:58 I've found some message "..devices shown support Personal Area Network (PAN) services" Mar 09 02:32:26 ok, but your telling me the issue is most likely my OS. so thank you Mar 09 02:33:07 newbie005, it sounds like you're pretty close to completing the task. I don't think you'll have to much trouble from where you're at. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 09 02:59:58 2010