**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 28 02:59:56 2010 Mar 28 03:17:12 sup guys Mar 28 03:19:49 probably a bit old for some: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgqnOqfehJE Mar 28 05:07:57 Highly recommend anyone to watch this: http://www.ted.com/talks/jamie_oliver.html Mar 28 06:06:29 * RST38h yawns Mar 28 06:09:14 wazzzd Mar 28 06:16:14 * rm_you eagerly anticipates being "back" Mar 28 06:42:21 rm_you: Finals soon? =) Mar 28 06:51:51 so, i'm going across the border and I dont want any gprs traffic to happen. but i still want wlan and sms. theres no setting for that, right. I simply shouldnt choose a gprs connection? Mar 28 06:57:46 Hello, how does one set user's PATH, and does busybox have it's file that's executed on start? Mar 28 07:03:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCx8RfNhhXk Mar 28 07:03:14 oh Mar 28 07:03:15 my Mar 28 07:03:16 god Mar 28 07:06:29 where can we get those demos?! Mar 28 07:06:37 they look very practical Mar 28 07:18:02 hm. And will it mess the system if i will change "user"'s default shell to bash? Mar 28 07:27:40 LiraNuna: I guess there's a reason they're demos, and not "Newly released software" Mar 28 07:28:14 are you suggesting something? :) Mar 28 07:28:52 on fremantle Mar 28 07:29:50 LuciusMare, I would love to know that too Mar 28 07:29:54 I find ash annoying Mar 28 07:30:14 LiraNuna: me? Suggesting? Never. Mar 28 07:31:17 LiraNuna: k, i will try... Mar 28 07:31:39 but one last thing: does the backup app cover the /home ? Mar 28 07:32:02 or, if i would need to reflash, does it erase the /home? Mar 28 07:32:53 I believe reflashing wipes everything Mar 28 07:32:57 at least it does on N810 Mar 28 07:33:08 everything internal, that is Mar 28 07:33:14 :o Mar 28 07:34:25 k, MyDocs? Mar 28 07:34:43 / Mar 28 07:35:01 I didn't reflash my N900 yet, but N810, everything goes away Mar 28 07:35:07 wow Mar 28 07:36:28 +in Mar 28 07:39:14 hm, it seems that mydocs stays there Mar 28 07:39:55 oh that's nice to know Mar 28 07:40:04 I recall everything wipes away on N810 Mar 28 07:40:23 my poor N810 didn't get any attention since I got my n900 Mar 28 07:40:26 * LiraNuna goes to pet it Mar 28 07:49:24 LiraNuna: no, the internal memory card wasn't touched during flash either Mar 28 07:49:36 even on the n810 Mar 28 07:55:24 crashanddie, weird, I recall everything wiping away Mar 28 07:55:42 that's alsheimer's Mar 28 07:57:35 I forgot how awesome the N810WE keyboard is Mar 28 08:39:19 sometimes its worrying to see 3 year old bugs with patches provied linger in the bug tracker... Mar 28 08:39:36 well, some are getting picked up by lma Mar 28 08:40:06 but honestly, best way to include patches is through maemo.gitorious.org Mar 28 08:40:24 maybe now, but was it back then? Mar 28 08:44:58 yeah, i agree it is worrying Mar 28 09:08:25 okay, so setting bash as default shell works, but not exactly as expected Mar 28 09:08:48 $PS1 is kinda screwed up, and .bashrc is not executed after running Mar 28 09:10:07 but that is xterm's problem, i guess, running bash (again) from the prompt works Mar 28 09:10:30 does rebooting work? Mar 28 09:10:30 :P Mar 28 09:10:41 erm. Mar 28 09:10:49 I just rebooted ;) Mar 28 09:11:51 gah, but it kinda pisses me off :< Mar 28 09:13:44 I'll make a thread on tmo... Mar 28 09:33:14 hooray for thread o tmo Mar 28 09:33:24 which one? Mar 28 09:33:25 :P Mar 28 09:33:38 I'll make a thread on tmo... Mar 28 09:33:58 DocScrutinizer: how would you say your ideal development environment for MeeGo would be? Mar 28 09:34:36 meego topics after first coffee only - esp on sundays :-P Mar 28 09:34:44 fair enough Mar 28 09:34:48 * Stskeeps brews a cup for DocScrutinizer Mar 28 09:43:28 * man_in_ltop waves Mar 28 09:44:29 moo Mar 28 09:44:44 hmm, my current ideas along the line "eclipse, with integrated qt-designer, linguist, ssh, sftp, and remote gdb" might indicate the coffee needs some time to kick in :-P Mar 28 09:45:13 i needa try mer Mar 28 09:51:30 Stskeeps: anyway to me it seems I'd like a client-server architecture for dev environment (where server is either a real device like N900, or an emu on same or different PC than the client), rather than this bizarre chroot setup we got now Mar 28 09:52:14 Hi, i set bash as default shell for user, but there are a few problems, for example .bashrc is not executed and $PS* variables are set differently. I use fremantle Mar 28 09:52:52 DocScrutinizer: would a VM where you can test locally on x86 and then with one command build for arm work too? Mar 28 09:53:24 LuciusMare: this all is really welknown, not only for maemo (rather for all friggin messybox based systems) Mar 28 09:54:56 Stskeeps: sure, as long as VM is the server part running the target architecture, and I "log in" to it from my usual working environment Mar 28 09:55:34 DocScrutinizer: Too bad, but thanks for answering :) Mar 28 09:55:47 i'm wondering if there's a sort of general-purpose hierarchical data storage thingy for maemo Mar 28 09:56:27 upstart is completely broken in maemo Mar 28 09:56:41 really? :P Mar 28 09:58:13 DocScrutinizer: also, nothing really wrong with busybox, although it is maybe too "lightweight" for maemo Mar 28 09:58:45 also, it's gplv2 Mar 28 09:58:45 :P Mar 28 09:58:55 I *HATE* BUSYBOX Mar 28 09:59:18 Why? Mar 28 09:59:24 * RST38h crashed the hildon status bar Mar 28 09:59:25 pfft, busybox is only marginally less awesome than bourne Mar 28 09:59:31 how funny is that? Mar 28 09:59:35 and everyone knows bourne is the most awesome shell in the universe ;) Mar 28 09:59:37 and - honestly - I found very little not to be wrong with messybox Mar 28 09:59:55 scratchbox or busybox? Mar 28 09:59:55 :P Mar 28 10:00:26 BUSYBOX, I *HATE* BUSYBOX Mar 28 10:00:36 ... Mar 28 10:00:42 beep Mar 28 10:00:46 upstart, anyone? Mar 28 10:01:03 it keeps hanging when i use "start", and doesn't launch on boot Mar 28 10:01:20 busybox is great, but it does not fit into maemo Mar 28 10:01:26 less is a crippled more, like almost all cmds are. the whole concept isn't for interactive use Mar 28 10:01:57 well, that's the point Mar 28 10:02:53 Would you want to have this pile of full-blown gnu utilities... at a router? Mar 28 10:02:59 messybox is a script interpreter for non-interactive systems' initscripts - if it's useful for anything at all Mar 28 10:03:06 my n900 has my timezone wrong, last night we went EET->EEST but if i have "automatical" selected in date/time settings it gives me EET Mar 28 10:04:19 actually for that (executing initscripts) it's not that bad. Good design for this purpose Mar 28 10:05:10 for a user login shell it's simply FUBAR Mar 28 10:05:17 initscripts don't work! Mar 28 10:05:22 at least the upstart ones Mar 28 10:05:32 i'd like to have zsh anyhow Mar 28 10:06:14 corecode_: how comes my phone performs remarkably good, without working upstart scripts? ;-P Mar 28 10:06:42 DocScrutinizer: you tell me Mar 28 10:06:52 corecode_: as in /etc/rc?.d ones? :P Mar 28 10:06:55 DocScrutinizer: most scripts are init.d style ones Mar 28 10:06:56 I tell you you're wrong Mar 28 10:06:57 MSI informed the over 97,000 people registered with its support forums that its reps were "fed up" with repeating information easily found in user manuals. The company even went so far as to say that it had installed an "RTFM" chip on its hardware boards to determine whether users had read their manuals and that anyone who hadn't read them would be banned from support. Mar 28 10:07:03 Stskeeps: no, as in /etc/event.d ones Mar 28 10:07:14 RST38h: excellent Mar 28 10:07:18 "...and don't ever write us again, bitch" Mar 28 10:07:23 DocScrutinizer: just try a simple one, it hangs here while starting Mar 28 10:08:45 morning Mar 28 10:08:50 hi Mar 28 10:09:00 anyone have a pointer to file selection dialogs in Qt? Mar 28 10:09:05 RST38h: cool, but a month and some days too early Mar 28 10:09:13 and anyway, DocScrutinizer, what does busybox have to do with these problems? I thought that it's just xterm that runs the shell... Mar 28 10:09:54 LuciusMare: yeah probably Mar 28 10:09:57 is needed for scripts too Mar 28 10:10:06 first coffe didn't kick in yet Mar 28 10:10:27 * lardman is on the way for another too! :) Mar 28 10:10:35 I'll grab one for you too Mar 28 10:10:42 less is crippled? I thought that was terminfo not busybox issue ;p Mar 28 10:11:06 having to press ctrl-j instead of enter.. Mar 28 10:11:10 ShadowJK: lol Mar 28 10:11:39 ShadowJK: you ever tried to search text in busybox-less? Mar 28 10:12:00 uh, I have real less installed afaik Mar 28 10:12:09 you bet me too Mar 28 10:12:20 and that works except ctrl-j instead of return Mar 28 10:12:31 no issue here Mar 28 10:12:40 :-o Mar 28 10:13:02 or I never noticed? Mar 28 10:13:53 but for busybox topic - *all* cmds are totally crippled. Well almost all Mar 28 10:14:17 eol = M-^?; eol2 = M-^?; Mar 28 10:15:03 * corecode_ gives up on plain upstart and creates init.d script Mar 28 10:15:04 DocScrut: ls works. Mar 28 10:15:12 so rather than having messybox PLUS coreutils, binutils, findutils, less, you-name-it, I'd rather prefer a decent bash-based setup, completely messybox free Mar 28 10:15:26 bash? Mar 28 10:15:28 eek. Mar 28 10:15:38 RST38h: WHAT works? Mar 28 10:15:40 another BSD user? =) Mar 28 10:15:42 I suspect meego isn't having busybox :) Mar 28 10:15:55 DocScrut: I can type "ls" in BusyBox and it show me directory listing! Mar 28 10:15:57 zsh kplz Mar 28 10:16:36 busybox sh line editing isn't utf8 proof Mar 28 10:16:43 that annoys me the most Mar 28 10:17:11 RST38h: incredible!!1!!!1!! Mar 28 10:18:51 hehe, get this, I was listening to streaming music with default media player over hsdpa 2 bars of signal, and i held hand near antenna too long, phone switched to 2.5g, I removed hand and it went back to 3.5g, without any interruption in music! Mar 28 10:18:52 RST38h: try 'busybox ls --help' vs '/bin/ls --help' Mar 28 10:21:04 how come the tools in scratchbox are others than on the device? Mar 28 10:21:31 cos it's scratchbox Mar 28 10:21:32 :P Mar 28 10:21:56 Stskeeps: see? ^^^ Mar 28 10:22:14 Stskeeps: server-client plz Mar 28 10:22:14 * Stskeeps isn't a scratchbox fan but it does some things right Mar 28 10:22:24 i'm a OBS fan personally :P Mar 28 10:23:11 gah Mar 28 10:23:26 /home/user # apt-get install coreutils Mar 28 10:23:38 busybox is already the newest version. Mar 28 10:24:10 oh, coreutils-gnu >_> Mar 28 10:24:24 LuciusMare: your one cmdline makes me think you're invoking apt-get as user 'user' Mar 28 10:24:41 installing coreutils replacing busybox used to be guaranteed way to brick device :) Mar 28 10:24:41 DocScrutinizer: see the '#' ? Mar 28 10:24:50 ahh Mar 28 10:24:56 ShadowJK: used to be? Mar 28 10:25:23 yo Mar 28 10:25:24 hopefully coreutils-gnu thingy puts it in /opt/gnu or something solaris/bsd-like Mar 28 10:25:46 as the friggin initscripts rely on messybox bugs to work correctly Mar 28 10:25:59 DocScrutinizer: ah yes, run-parts -l for instance :P Mar 28 10:26:22 I *HATE* BUSYBOX! Mar 28 10:26:27 ShadowJK, /usr/bin/gnu Mar 28 10:26:40 * ShadowJK facepalms Mar 28 10:26:56 back to the SunOS Mar 28 10:27:06 yeeeha! Mar 28 10:27:06 well - which is a symlink to /opt Mar 28 10:27:33 /usr/xpg4/bin/sh Mar 28 10:27:46 migration SunOS to Solaris was... err, real fun? Mar 28 10:27:58 even /usr/gnu with symlinks would have been less facepalm Mar 28 10:28:26 I do not hate busybox, yet i agree with DocScrutinizer, N900 (or fremantle, if you will) deserves a full blown installation, like this, it is stuck right between power user tool and a clevarphone Mar 28 10:28:58 Well, I recently spotted /usr/share/beep.wav in my (quite small compared to Maemo) embedded system - It's easy to do it wrong without regular review and cleanup. Mar 28 10:29:09 LuciusMare, wrong. Mar 28 10:29:26 LuciusMare, at least for script use Mar 28 10:29:42 BAH Mar 28 10:29:52 LuciusMare, busybox tools are ver nloticable faster and lower RAM Mar 28 10:30:15 as it' all in ram anyway Mar 28 10:30:18 so are busybox tools posix compliant? ;p Mar 28 10:30:25 I'd happily watch each boot take 5 extra seconds, just to know it's done by a decent shell, rather than messybox Mar 28 10:30:31 ShadowJK: it's a bug if not Mar 28 10:30:47 DocScrutinizer: it's a religion (or similar brain-damageness) Mar 28 10:30:48 ah, that's fine then Mar 28 10:30:58 for script use, yes. But as ds DS said, not for interactive use Mar 28 10:31:12 because if you stray outside posix you're un unportable-land anyway ;p Mar 28 10:31:22 For interactive use I'd install zsh. Rest of tools are quite ok Mar 28 10:31:39 And there's bunch of DESKTOP_* config options to enable more useful options. Mar 28 10:32:09 So it might have sense to ping virtuoso to enable those in newer busybox as he updates it in maemo. Mar 28 10:32:21 SpeedEvil: the 'lower on ram' bit I give a shit as on init we got plenty of ram, and I'd hope messybox frees ram as does bash Mar 28 10:32:42 SpeedEvil: for the 'faster' we still need decent figures Mar 28 10:34:12 and for regular everyday scripting you want a decent POSIX conformant shell anyway, won't you? Mar 28 10:34:28 DocScrutinizer: busybox shell is a decent posix conformant shell. Mar 28 10:34:36 muhaha Mar 28 10:34:53 DocScrutinizer: prove non-conformance. Mar 28 10:35:05 so how comes maemo init breaks on replacing messybox coreutils?? Mar 28 10:35:18 Okay, you can't. Mar 28 10:35:24 lower on ram - start 2 bashes and ashes, and look at pss Mar 28 10:35:30 of the second Mar 28 10:36:13 google smem for a good tool to look at PSS Mar 28 10:37:07 dottedmag: wouldn't you agree a shell like bash is proven to be POSIX? and coreutils as well? Why can't initscripts run with coreutils installed then? Mar 28 10:37:13 DocScrutinizer: NO Mar 28 10:37:27 DocScrutinizer: there are lot of bugs in bash Mar 28 10:37:43 bug free != posix complaint Mar 28 10:37:52 oh shit Mar 28 10:38:03 ok, show me a case where messybox is right, and bash fails, please Mar 28 10:38:35 DocScrutinizer: It's your obligation to prove that busybox ash is wrong, as you started the whining. Mar 28 10:38:42 show me a proof for messybox being more POSIX than coreutils Mar 28 10:38:52 And stop "more" bullshit. Mar 28 10:39:27 dottedmag: I'll simply stop arguing with you, sir Mar 28 10:39:43 heh, funny Mar 28 10:39:53 What is the command to get battery level? Mar 28 10:40:03 lshal Mar 28 10:40:12 |grep bat Mar 28 10:40:32 My tablet just got reseted because of low battery, I let it charge for ~10 minutes and yet it shows full battery level Mar 28 10:40:36 smem - look at http://www.mauve.plus.com/memlog Mar 28 10:40:48 for more than five minutes Mar 28 10:40:51 some are surprisingly light in pss Mar 28 10:41:42 camkeyd say - 8k Mar 28 10:42:31 pss is proportional set size. Mar 28 10:43:04 if 9 progs allocate 1 lib, each gets 1/9th added to its pss Mar 28 10:43:17 SpeedEvil: what are you at, mate? Mar 28 10:43:46 Going out into the garden to dig. Mar 28 10:44:20 SpeedEvil: know 'Blaumilch channel' ? Mar 28 10:44:20 and commenting on ram use - especially of busybox Mar 28 10:44:23 no Mar 28 10:45:08 on another matter - anyone know of a thing that goes beep on low wifi sig? Mar 28 10:45:38 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Blaumilchkanal Mar 28 10:50:07 SpeedEvil: no, if you will get one, tell me :) Mar 28 10:50:40 SpeedEvil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O2eYMlSBI0 Mar 28 10:51:33 DocScrutinizer: what's that? Mar 28 10:51:38 ok, i don't know much about linux but wouldn't it be possible to make a symlink to /home/opt from, whatever applications prefer to be installed? Mar 28 10:52:46 FIQ: apps are installed to lot of different directories by default Mar 28 10:52:59 ah Mar 28 11:05:59 FIQ: linux doesn't work like windows, with a PRogram Files dir Mar 28 11:06:25 hm Mar 28 11:06:35 LuciusMare: that's my take on SpeedEvil digging his garden day after day, for weeks Mar 28 11:06:39 ;-D Mar 28 11:07:13 "The Big Dig" ;-P Mar 28 11:07:13 anyone knows why hildon notification bubbles would show up with the broken icon??? Mar 28 11:08:28 ! Mar 28 11:08:47 VDVsx: Have you ever encontered a situation when hildon notification bubbles pop up with a broken image? Mar 28 11:09:00 (i.e. little broken document image to be exact) Mar 28 11:09:12 RST38h: sounds like 1.2 ? Mar 28 11:09:51 no Mar 28 11:10:52 a goat eaten your icon files? Mar 28 11:11:38 huh Mar 28 11:11:41 RST38h, no, the yellow notes ? Mar 28 11:11:48 i have gcc-base installed, yet it goes "gcc: command not found" Mar 28 11:11:51 yes Mar 28 11:11:56 the LITTLE yellow notes Mar 28 11:12:01 hm, sygic is actually quite good Mar 28 11:12:08 ones which fly out then fly away Mar 28 11:12:09 LuciusMare: gcc-defaults Mar 28 11:12:46 * DocScrutinizer suggests strace to RST38h Mar 28 11:12:54 tried, didn't work Mar 28 11:13:02 does not find anything meaningful Mar 28 11:13:19 will try again, for the hell of it though Mar 28 11:13:21 o.O Mar 28 11:13:46 Stskeeps: package nor command exist... Mar 28 11:14:03 if the icon data is linked in (i.e. no file) then that's really strange Mar 28 11:15:07 Shapeshifter: heh, you made my phone nag me again ;-) Mar 28 11:15:12 How do I redirect strace output into a file? Mar 28 11:15:42 Shapeshifter: 0.1.8-3 Mar 28 11:15:48 ah -o Mar 28 11:20:51 None of the icon files show up in the strace. Weird Mar 28 11:21:16 statically linked data? Mar 28 11:22:23 hm, can i compile on my n900? Mar 28 11:22:30 or you missed a fstat() or sth before, which decided the app can't find the correct directory Mar 28 11:23:19 LuciusMare: I heard some brave guys did Mar 28 11:24:04 meh. Mar 28 11:24:55 actually N900 has more bang than my CF-27 panasonic toughbook. And I compiled real KDE apps there :-P Mar 28 11:25:05 ha Mar 28 11:25:27 the only thing that holds me down is the little fact that gcc is not in repos Mar 28 11:25:50 it isn't? Mar 28 11:25:58 well Mar 28 11:26:05 that's weird, I wonder how everyone manages to compile shit for the n900 then? Mar 28 11:26:06 there is gcc-4.2-base Mar 28 11:26:14 crashanddie: scratchbox? Mar 28 11:26:22 and? Mar 28 11:26:33 that's a cross-compiling env Mar 28 11:26:36 and? Mar 28 11:26:45 aint it obvious? Mar 28 11:26:51 not to you apparently Mar 28 11:26:54 is there a way to clone a repository? Mar 28 11:27:00 :< Mar 28 11:27:22 LuciusMare: scratchbox isn't exactly a xcompile setup aiui Mar 28 11:27:32 okay, DS said that some brave guys did Mar 28 11:27:46 some brave guys probably didnt code all the apps for maemo Mar 28 11:27:51 it's more like a VM with genuine tools for target arch Mar 28 11:28:49 DocScrutinizer: add deb http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk free non-free to your repos, then apt-get install build-essential Mar 28 11:28:56 erhm, sorry, that was for LuciusMare Mar 28 11:28:59 Mhm, real xchat starts via maemo-invoker Mar 28 11:29:02 Shit Mar 28 11:29:15 wont it eat my rootfs? Mar 28 11:29:27 LuciusMare: sure will Mar 28 11:29:33 How do I strace THAT? Mar 28 11:29:56 RST38h: plug JTAG right into your brain Mar 28 11:30:10 RST38h: never even hreard of maemo-invoker Mar 28 11:30:17 crashanddie: sounds great Mar 28 11:30:18 RST38h: through strace -f Mar 28 11:30:19 some people only feel pain, others can see a brunette, blonde... Mar 28 11:30:39 dotted: does not work Mar 28 11:31:01 RST38h: and what process does the actual fork/exec? just attach to it Mar 28 11:31:04 LuciusMare: It's not optimal, but people have been developping on the n800 for quite some time, no reason the same things wouldn't work for n900 Mar 28 11:31:22 dotted: Probably some dbus crap Mar 28 11:31:42 RST38h: dbus crap does not run anything, except services as described in service files. Mar 28 11:31:43 * DocScrutinizer mumbles "easy debian" Mar 28 11:31:47 crashanddie: MyDocs chroot, maybe? Mar 28 11:31:53 And I don't believe xchat is registered as dbus service. Mar 28 11:32:04 DocScrutinizer: i heard something about it, but nothing more Mar 28 11:32:08 mhm, correct Mar 28 11:32:18 on the other hand, -f does not help Mar 28 11:32:51 meh Mar 28 11:33:12 i guess that downloading the whole chroot on this gprs will be... Mar 28 11:33:16 slow. Mar 28 11:33:44 RST38h: according to google, maemo-invoker calls maemo-launcher which does the actual work. Mar 28 11:33:59 * RST38h makes an attempt to facepalm Mar 28 11:34:32 RST38h: you fail even at facepalming? *facepalms* Mar 28 11:35:32 W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Write error - write (28 No space left on device) Mar 28 11:35:39 sounds nice. :d Mar 28 11:35:56 Ok, I am totally lost. Mar 28 11:35:59 ha Mar 28 11:36:03 FIQ: df / Mar 28 11:36:13 4.4MB Mar 28 11:36:15 8 did that Mar 28 11:36:26 s/8/i/ Mar 28 11:36:27 FIQ meant: i did that Mar 28 11:36:28 The icon in the left top corner of the bubbles shown by libnotify: where the hell does it come from??? Mar 28 11:36:46 or well, i used -h but w/e Mar 28 11:36:57 FIQ, df /var/lib/dpkg Mar 28 11:37:04 apt-clean Mar 28 11:37:16 s/n/r/ Mar 28 11:37:18 LuciusMare meant: apt-clear Mar 28 11:37:23 4.3M available Mar 28 11:37:26 wait, no, clean :D Mar 28 11:37:42 FIQ, not the same command Mar 28 11:37:44 after the clean: 10.0M Mar 28 11:37:49 actually Mar 28 11:37:56 i optified mywhole /var/cache Mar 28 11:37:59 du -h /var/lib | grep M Mar 28 11:38:42 rm -rf / ;P Mar 28 11:38:51 (I hope you dont do that) Mar 28 11:39:14 lol, np Mar 28 11:39:18 i know what it does Mar 28 11:39:21 :) Mar 28 11:39:29 i had this case on our local ubuntu forum Mar 28 11:39:45 he got banned for saying that to a noobie Mar 28 11:39:48 maybe i don't know much linux, but i'm not _that_ stupid. :P Mar 28 11:39:52 hah Mar 28 11:40:41 i was one of the mods... :/ Mar 28 11:41:30 back to our topic Mar 28 11:41:51 i recommend going through the "uninstall" menu in ham, it shows the size Mar 28 11:42:13 hm Mar 28 11:42:24 can i check what takes spaces on where? Mar 28 11:42:57 search tmo Mar 28 11:43:04 there's a script by zerojay who does just that Mar 28 11:43:06 du -h /usr :) Mar 28 11:43:13 alright Mar 28 11:43:18 finally i got it all down Mar 28 11:43:22 and also, it allows you to move stuff from the rootfs to the other partition Mar 28 11:43:33 corecode_: too many blue pills at once? Mar 28 11:43:56 crashanddie: he took both Mar 28 11:43:59 crashanddie: no, the debhelper scripts for maemo are broken Mar 28 11:44:12 oh, condoleances Mar 28 11:44:15 and upstart is old and undocumented Mar 28 11:44:36 upstart? Mar 28 11:44:38 = pain Mar 28 11:44:46 the init.d replacement Mar 28 11:44:54 hm Mar 28 11:47:28 A beginner's guide to slashdot: get your karma up to "Excellent" by posting a handful of +5 comments, and then never spend all of your mod points = 5 mod points every day, unlimited karma Mar 28 11:48:27 All your comments start with +2 to begin with, which tends to make them rise faster anyway (sheep effect, "oh, someone already modded him up, we need to make sure others can see it") Mar 28 11:49:18 And there I was trying to clarify poorly understood points for the elucidation of others. Mar 28 11:49:34 * SpeedEvil has been doing it wrong. Mar 28 11:50:56 * DocScrutinizer coughs Mar 28 11:52:50 hm Mar 28 11:53:00 my battery died Mar 28 11:53:06 FIQ: where you've been? Mar 28 11:53:12 FIQ: du /usr|sort -n|less Mar 28 11:53:47 hm Mar 28 11:53:59 i don't know the syntax but it's wrong Mar 28 11:54:42 nah,if there's anything wrong, then it's MESSYBOX Mar 28 11:54:52 I *HATE* BUSYBOX Mar 28 11:55:02 eheh Mar 28 11:55:14 SpeedEvil: /. crowd praises itself to be more technically oriented, and less thick than the people at large because they, by self-classification think they are more critical thinkers and have a deeper understanding of the world Mar 28 11:55:38 Will meego use busybox? Mar 28 11:55:41 SpeedEvil: truth is, they're as misinformed and thick as the rest of the world Mar 28 11:55:46 anyway, why does "Maemo 5" showing up at the uninstall thing? Mar 28 11:56:00 Ken-Young: saw a thread about that on the mailing lists, can't remember the outcome Mar 28 11:56:06 i have no plans at uninstalling it, and i'm pretty sure none else too Mar 28 11:56:50 crashanddie, somewhat Mar 28 11:57:52 Ken-Young: thread in question: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-February/000574.html Mar 28 11:58:12 FIQ: btw no problem here, on N900 with busybox Mar 28 11:58:17 crashanddie, Thanks for the pointer! Mar 28 11:58:53 it maybe should be a pipe somewhere? Mar 28 11:58:54 du: invalid option -- n Mar 28 11:59:18 FIQ: nobody told you to use -n Mar 28 11:59:32 /home/user # du /usr sort -n less Mar 28 11:59:32 he said | sort -n | less Mar 28 11:59:37 PIPE Mar 28 11:59:52 well, as i though Mar 28 12:00:07 see that vertical bar? It's a special character Mar 28 12:00:11 but i used a pipe to little it seems (i tried a pipe before sort) Mar 28 12:00:38 * crashanddie facepalms Mar 28 12:00:51 what use is it to tell people to do stuff if they don't even understand the basic concepts? Mar 28 12:01:15 c&p may help Mar 28 12:02:04 how would I mount the external mmc, given that the device thinks the back cover is open? Mar 28 12:02:19 you can't, iirc Mar 28 12:02:27 it's electronically prevented? Mar 28 12:02:34 difficult to believe.. Mar 28 12:02:35 no, logically Mar 28 12:02:56 i readed the pipe as a space, i missed that it was a pipe, ok? Mar 28 12:02:58 so the limitation would be implemented in the linux kernel or linux user side? Mar 28 12:03:23 gosh, your patience suck Mar 28 12:03:31 I guess I'll just find a magnet and look what happens Mar 28 12:04:00 my n900 will no longer charge off my wall charger only the usb charger... perhaps my wall charger has some how gone bad? Mar 28 12:04:15 ech0dish: what wall charger is it? Mar 28 12:04:28 ech0dish: one with interchangeable plug-adapters? Mar 28 12:04:29 less wasn't found anyway Mar 28 12:04:29 its the one that was originally shipped with it Mar 28 12:04:59 ech0dish: try with another one if you can find one (or ask to us one off your friends) Mar 28 12:05:10 s/us/use Mar 28 12:05:12 FIQ: du -x / | sort -n | less; # even better Mar 28 12:06:12 i've tried it on a few outlets but i have nothing else to try and charge with it to see if its the adapter.. would suck to buy another one and find out this is some type of conflict with something i've downloaded... Mar 28 12:06:13 less is still not found Mar 28 12:06:14 :) Mar 28 12:06:55 and i copy/pasted this time to dodge fails Mar 28 12:07:40 so use it without " | less" Mar 28 12:08:13 yeah, did it Mar 28 12:08:23 though I seem to remember less was a link to messybox, before I installed decent less :-o Mar 28 12:08:25 got wall of lines Mar 28 12:08:55 FIQ: the last lines indicate the largest dirs/files on root filesystem Mar 28 12:09:06 guess it is how much space any dirs take Mar 28 12:09:13 yeah Mar 28 12:09:38 bah, indeed it looks like the sensor is used by the mmc block device driver :-o Mar 28 12:10:15 * DocScrutinizer facepalms Mar 28 12:12:35 flux: If you reprogram the GPIO used for the reed contact, you might be able to fake a closed backcover by writing a 0 or 1 to that output Mar 28 12:13:56 docscrutinizer, for today, I think I'll just find a tape, though :) Mar 28 12:14:26 is there a way to make your n900 handsfree and use a computer as a speaker and mic, or a control panel? Mar 28 12:14:41 actually.. maybe I can poll the gpio pins from /sys to find the pin first.. Mar 28 12:15:09 that's easy -> dmesg Mar 28 12:15:30 names GPIOxxx in verbatim Mar 28 12:15:42 it only talks about slide and kb_lock Mar 28 12:15:56 the messages surrounding mmcblk1 activity don't have GPIO-messages nearby Mar 28 12:16:08 nah, really. Seems my memory plays jokes on me Mar 28 12:16:43 isnt there a memcheck app? Mar 28 12:17:17 Expecting my n900 in a few days :3 Mar 28 12:17:20 :D Mar 28 12:17:27 gah, you're right Mar 28 12:17:35 /sys/bus/platform/drivers/gpio-switch apperas to have a bunch of already labeled directories, but none of them seem to reflect the mmc switch.. Mar 28 12:17:44 * Jaffa 's new N900 is sat with DHL. Not rush to pick it up (until MeeGo day 1, anyway) Mar 28 12:17:50 unless cmt os something like that Mar 28 12:18:03 lardman, qt creator includes a "Standard dialogs" example Mar 28 12:18:15 i believe you can just use any of those in your code Mar 28 12:18:29 and they should work as described Mar 28 12:20:49 flux: Mar 28 14:16:42 IroN900 ke_recv[1327]: prop_modified:1889: udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_mmci_omap_hs_0_mmc_host modified button.state.value Mar 28 12:21:00 Mar 28 14:16:42 IroN900 ke_recv[1327]: event_in_cover_open:1042: E_CLOSED for ext-MMC Mar 28 12:21:23 from syslog -- dunno if that helps Mar 28 12:24:04 I thought it would, but hald-addon-gpio doesn't react then I activate the sensor Mar 28 12:24:22 it does react when I slide open the keyboard (by react: issue system calls as per strace) Mar 28 12:25:59 lcuk: Thanks, I found some example code in the end Mar 28 12:32:02 lcuk, - hows brum-meetup? Mar 28 12:32:27 flux: from schematics, sdcard hotswap sensor is wired to : GPIO_160 T21 McBSP1_CLKS Mar 28 12:33:04 on D4800 OMAP4030 Mar 28 12:35:53 noobmonk3y, :D was great, for the half hour or so we made it lol Mar 28 12:36:12 2 hours late lost driving around with tracytracy giving directions was "amusing" Mar 28 12:36:57 lol! Mar 28 12:37:10 MohammadAG, sorry missed ya pm yesterday - left my irc on idling Mar 28 12:37:12 then on the way back 2 junctions of m6 were blocked Mar 28 12:37:22 lcuk, - thats usual though isnt it? Mar 28 12:37:27 had a great time tho :) me n tracy and no kids for the night was worth it Mar 28 12:37:43 :D :D Mar 28 12:37:46 oh hey Mar 28 12:37:47 noobmonk3y, np, i forgot what I wanted to say lol Mar 28 12:37:50 as theres several brits here now Mar 28 12:37:52 and met some cool ppl Mar 28 12:37:55 lol, sure it was uber-important ;) Mar 28 12:38:01 lo nick_fn Mar 28 12:38:04 nidO, Mar 28 12:38:05 meh Mar 28 12:38:05 read plus vote plx :D http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48497 Mar 28 12:38:10 auto-tabbing fail...... Mar 28 12:38:51 voting :D Mar 28 12:38:53 Hey anyway noobmonk3y ;-) Mar 28 12:38:55 ta :D Mar 28 12:38:59 docscrutinizer, thanks, I'll take a note of it. although my small-piece-of-hard-drive-magnet+duck-tape-solution seems to be working fine.. Mar 28 12:39:31 docscrutinizer, although I'm a bit worried if the tape will lose its cohesion resulting possibly in the magnet shorting the sensor permanently :) Mar 28 12:39:55 lol hi nick_fn - you.... yuo.... ..... first person on the N'list lol Mar 28 12:40:43 right...... what to do today ...... Mar 28 12:40:48 isnt highlighting fun Mar 28 12:40:53 nidO, :| Mar 28 12:41:54 hmmmmmmmmm i need to give healthcheck a graphics overhall... and it needs to do some threading for constant reading of values i feel Mar 28 12:41:56 i've managed to get that "other platforms" idea as the top voted idea on the national trust's feedback for the iphone app in about 12 hours, hopefully theyll take note of that :D Mar 28 12:47:45 is reading values taking alot of time? Mar 28 12:47:56 with little cpu use? Mar 28 12:55:44 any news on pr1.2 yet? Mar 28 12:55:56 its going to be pink....... Mar 28 12:56:03 yes, it's out but you cannot have it Mar 28 12:56:03 ! Mar 28 12:56:07 lols Mar 28 12:56:14 gouverneur, be a bit more specific Mar 28 12:56:25 1.2 is available on an adk environment Mar 28 12:56:30 common sense then asks why on there? Mar 28 12:56:38 answer - so the developers can confirm apps work :D Mar 28 12:56:42 euweick PINK thats a serious show stopper to me, wont buy it though Mar 28 12:56:55 which reminds me, updates to maemo don't mean reflash+hard reset like on WM devices, right? :x Mar 28 12:57:01 ahhhh next question - how long to fix an app and get it through extras-testing? minimum 2 weeks ;) Mar 28 12:57:13 nope haltdef - not yet Mar 28 12:57:17 noobmonk3y: what do you want to tell me? Mar 28 12:57:25 not yet? Mar 28 12:57:25 gouverneur, nothing, :D Mar 28 12:57:34 noobmonk3y: ^^ right Mar 28 12:57:44 adk - meant sdk Mar 28 12:57:50 meh meh meh, darn my fat fingers Mar 28 12:58:03 noobmonk3y: I am just to lazy to grep from irc... Mar 28 12:58:08 lol Mar 28 12:58:21 i'm hoping for 1.2 after easter at some point :D Mar 28 12:58:49 my prediction would be somewhere between 12th - 24th ish Mar 28 12:58:50 joikuspot makes my n900 get kinda hot Mar 28 12:58:55 ech0dish, - mine too Mar 28 12:58:56 i don't like that lol Mar 28 12:58:59 updated version? Mar 28 12:59:00 noobmonk3y: that sdk is upgraded I know thats days ago, screwed my sdk again Mar 28 12:59:02 has been better for me Mar 28 12:59:07 i got retail Mar 28 12:59:16 yeah, i mean the updated retail one? Mar 28 12:59:20 had an upgrade last week Mar 28 12:59:28 i dunno lol Mar 28 12:59:36 re-enable the joiku repos and see :D Mar 28 12:59:40 runs a lot better Mar 28 12:59:43 less battery and heat issues Mar 28 12:59:46 aight haha Mar 28 13:00:13 i think it might of burned my charger Mar 28 13:00:18 :| Mar 28 13:00:23 i can't use my wall charger no more Mar 28 13:00:26 just the usb one.. Mar 28 13:00:30 right off for lunch, back laters Mar 28 13:00:33 i dunno.. it just does nothin Mar 28 13:00:39 l8 Mar 28 13:00:46 l8 Mar 28 13:01:34 damn this freakin fft lib is playing up on me and if I am right I have to integrate it in the program using it if I want it in extras... Mar 28 13:01:47 wonder where he is to be eatin lunch right now Mar 28 13:01:55 like 8am here lol Mar 28 13:02:03 ech0dish: uk Mar 28 13:03:04 ech0dish: I didnt have breakfast yet but its 3pm... Mar 28 13:03:37 ovi publishing is down and ovi store will be down tomorrow, i'm hoping its a sign of better maemo support coming Mar 28 13:04:00 i think maemo's good on its own lol Mar 28 13:04:10 my device now does everything i care about it doing Mar 28 13:04:52 i want to play some the cool games from the MWC video Mar 28 13:05:34 am i dead? Mar 28 13:05:43 no? Mar 28 13:05:53 ech0dish: apart of autoconnecting wpa-enterprise, making coffee, connect enterprise-shares (samba or ws) Mar 28 13:06:12 C-S-B-N900: you look alike Mar 28 13:06:17 cheers. Mar 28 13:06:29 but I guess your not Mar 28 13:06:47 have you tried to look in a mirror yet Mar 28 13:08:52 "making coffe" - buy some kind of ir/bt-enabled coffe maker, make n900 enabled to communicate with it and done. :D Mar 28 13:08:53 lol Mar 28 13:09:27 FIQ: it is on its way... Mar 28 13:10:08 hi all, I would like to ask about the idea I have for GSoC Mar 28 13:10:39 anyone know what "wtfc TS" means? Mar 28 13:10:44 my saeco vienna is currently pulled apart in the kitchen due to heater issues, the hardware looks simple enough to attach it to a bt switch Mar 28 13:11:05 crashanddie: was wondering the same Mar 28 13:11:25 gouverneur & FIQ: please don't use new ways to make coffee listen to computers, there are very well defined standards for that Mar 28 13:11:46 * RST38h would go for a wireless MIDI sequencer sending electric shocks to the members of a symphony orchestra Mar 28 13:11:58 Can this qualify for a Google Summer of Code project? Mar 28 13:12:10 RST38h: thats sounds int... wait for it Mar 28 13:12:24 HTCPCP comes to mind Mar 28 13:12:45 my coffeemaker is just to heat up if any bt radio in range is available... Mar 28 13:12:53 eresting Mar 28 13:13:11 RST38h: not sure that works with the "Do no evil" mantra Mar 28 13:13:23 crashanddie: who cares Mar 28 13:13:49 * marcus_ wonders if anybody tried Wine for Maemo Mar 28 13:13:52 my chi is that bad that cats follow my way Mar 28 13:14:04 Hi, i want to install the easy debian chroot, and the wiki page tells that the image file is 2gb - i am downloading it externally, and the image is only 278 mb? Mar 28 13:14:10 "Wine for Maemo" Mar 28 13:14:20 uh, that seems impossible Mar 28 13:14:25 LuciusMare: extracted? Mar 28 13:14:33 FIQ: I find that wine /before/ Maemo works a lot better Mar 28 13:14:41 or after, depending on your schedule Mar 28 13:14:45 :P Mar 28 13:14:49 "After a networking error first reported on Wednesday last week caused computers in Chile and the US to come under the control of a system that censors the Internet in China, the 'root DNS server associated with the networking problems has been disconnected from the Internet,' writes Robert McMillan." Mar 28 13:14:49 luciusmare, it's compressed Mar 28 13:14:55 so much? Mar 28 13:14:55 LuciusMare: my device says 2.00GB Mar 28 13:15:28 A terminal program will open and ask you where to place the image file (again, it is a 2 GB file) - that made me think that the image is 2gb Mar 28 13:15:28 * RST38h especially like the first half of this paragraph Mar 28 13:15:31 since it talks about a file Mar 28 13:15:33 that root server were in sweden? Mar 28 13:15:49 luciusmare, that confused me too first Mar 28 13:15:55 Apparently yes Mar 28 13:15:55 LuciusMare: after extracting it Mar 28 13:15:56 but seems as it's compressed Mar 28 13:16:28 it will be 2GB after the extract though (as others state) Mar 28 13:16:46 great Mar 28 13:16:47 I was thinking about making a MeeGo/Maemo game client for Thousand Parsec games (turn based space empire building) for GSoC Mar 28 13:17:26 is there a recommended procedure to backup *all* (relevant parts) of the n900, is using rsync like this ok and can I restore it without problems too? :) http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?p=446488&postcount=20 Mar 28 13:17:40 WinXP in qemu seems has been done before, on maemo, though Mar 28 13:17:44 (I don't have -devel enabled but I did install grsync) Mar 28 13:17:54 LuciusMare: another pendrive linux is 300MB download with an install script that eats up 2-6GB (user input needed) as it resizes the image after download Mar 28 13:18:13 those compressions... *shakes his head* Mar 28 13:19:50 LuciusMare: ? you need it fast and have 3g available, you would blame those people stupid not to compress properly Mar 28 13:19:55 .фцфн Mar 28 13:19:58 oups Mar 28 13:20:13 RST38h: muhaha Mar 28 13:20:15 moroning Mar 28 13:20:18 hurm Mar 28 13:20:22 nevermind... Mar 28 13:20:23 thresh: hey hey Mar 28 13:21:17 * marcus_ can't wait till he gets his N900 on monday/tuesday. Mar 28 13:21:22 after i use joikuspot, when i try and use my laptop to connect to any other ap it fails and i have to reboot the laptop before i can connect to another ap... Mar 28 13:21:35 marcus_: welcome to the jungle ;) Mar 28 13:21:37 * joga has been tweaking almost non-stop ever since he got one Mar 28 13:21:39 :D Mar 28 13:21:40 :) Mar 28 13:21:44 RST38h: great chinese Fwall is a virus? Mar 28 13:21:50 joga: so do I Mar 28 13:22:09 DocScrutinizer: have you expected other? Mar 28 13:23:09 uhm Mar 28 13:23:12 what the... Mar 28 13:23:23 gouverneur: not really. seems it's easy to do really nasty things in DNS Mar 28 13:23:24 a query msg came into me in xchat Mar 28 13:23:36 the balloon popped up Mar 28 13:24:01 tzzz Mar 28 13:24:08 it stated ":<" Mar 28 13:24:17 i check it out Mar 28 13:24:27 it was meant to be ":<" Mar 28 13:24:38 so, here's my question: Mar 28 13:24:47 WHY did it get htmlescaped..? Mar 28 13:25:12 some stupid firewall? Mar 28 13:25:26 haha Mar 28 13:25:48 some stupid string typeconversions back and forth Mar 28 13:26:25 it seems reproduceable Mar 28 13:26:30 xchat fail or maemo fail? Mar 28 13:26:38 xchat Mar 28 13:27:06 ok Mar 28 13:27:15 R3st8h, ^ Mar 28 13:27:31 what?? Mar 28 13:28:02 I doubt his highlighting regexp will catch that Mar 28 13:29:06 btw I guess a cehteh: ping is more appropriate Mar 28 13:29:12 RST38h, ^ Mar 28 13:29:16 ah Mar 28 13:29:21 meh Mar 28 13:29:48 marcus_: why have you no n900 now? Mar 28 13:30:02 C-S-B-N900: 'Cause I just ordered it :) Mar 28 13:30:24 they are friggin great. but promise me that you check the av jack and fm tx straight away. Mar 28 13:31:12 FM TX? Mar 28 13:31:27 And how would I check it? (: Mar 28 13:31:30 marcus_: fm transmitter Mar 28 13:31:49 with a radio and the inbuilt mp3s. Mar 28 13:31:50 Oh okay, and I just test the AV jack by going over the tv I assume. Mar 28 13:32:12 yeah,or headphones, check for a dropped channel. Mar 28 13:32:32 only because im on my 3rd. Mar 28 13:32:39 Srsly? o.o Mar 28 13:33:09 first had a failed fmtx and the second had a dropping channel on the av jack Mar 28 13:34:04 fail to detect headphones is a more common problem for AVcon than missing channel Mar 28 13:34:46 I suggest to check both headset (incl check for mic working), and AV-video Mar 28 13:34:59 docscrutinizer mine was nothing sw. the headphones were working. Mar 28 13:35:14 it was the contact to the board. Mar 28 13:35:21 yeah. so? Mar 28 13:35:31 i needed new hw. Mar 28 13:36:15 im just making sure marcus_ checks everything first so he can get it sorted out as easily as possible. Mar 28 13:36:22 fail to detect headset *is* a hw issue Mar 28 13:36:45 true. who mentioned that? im lost :s Mar 28 13:36:45 C-S-B-N900: I will check it for sure! Thanks for the advice mate. Mar 28 13:37:07 np Mar 28 13:38:01 FIQ: What? Mar 28 13:39:50 So tired of having to reboot every few days to keep performance up. Mar 28 13:39:51 RST38h: cehteh's notification plugin borks on RTF escapes Mar 28 13:40:52 GAN: There is a bug tracker for that? Mar 28 13:40:54 ! Mar 28 13:40:57 Actually there is Mar 28 13:41:02 today my country switched to daylight savings time, nut my n900 did not. Mar 28 13:41:08 cehteh: the balloon popped up it stated ":<" it was meant to be ":<" Mar 28 13:42:01 cehteh: mine did -> ntpd ;-P Mar 28 13:42:17 cehteh: fix your notification crap! ;-D Mar 28 13:43:37 Stskeeps: what's different with the new hildon-theme-example-stskeeps? Mar 28 13:43:49 GAN900: there will be fixes to that in PR1.2 Mar 28 13:44:03 Or so I hear. Mar 28 13:44:44 I wonder what kind of "fixes"... Mar 28 13:45:04 is there away to alert my clock that local time is in daylight time? Mar 28 13:45:22 what alerting do you need.. Mar 28 13:45:42 Wish I could say more. It's better than before.. :-) Mar 28 13:45:56 local time is listed as GMT, but it should be GMT+1 Mar 28 13:46:04 ah Mar 28 13:46:15 cehteh: install ntpd, or schedule a cmdline event in alarmed :-) Mar 28 13:46:15 well you're BST now aren't you Mar 28 13:46:25 ntpd doesn't care about daylight savings :-) Mar 28 13:46:36 Maemo - The Mobile Linux version of Windows. Mar 28 13:46:51 Windows ME Mar 28 13:47:11 rofl Mar 28 13:47:14 Swap on emmc/sd degrades in performance over time since it's designed to swap on harddrive not SD :) Mar 28 13:47:20 * GAN900 notes MeeGo is a super convenient way for Nokia to shunt away community stuff from their own software. Mar 28 13:47:23 ShadowJK: whatever, my N900 time switched from 2 to 3 on the point Mar 28 13:47:24 yes, bst. when i go to the world clock, it knows that london is gmt+1, but the local time stubbornly is not Mar 28 13:47:37 DocScrutinizer, yes, mine too, but that's not because of ntpd Mar 28 13:47:50 probably not, you're right Mar 28 13:48:13 ps aux does not list ntpd Mar 28 13:48:49 ooops, sorry cehteh. tab completion error paired with myopia Mar 28 13:49:01 ntpd at most deals with unix time on the system, and unix time doesn't jump back or forward :-) Mar 28 13:49:12 yep Mar 28 13:49:53 Celesteh: seems you need to correctly set your timezone Mar 28 13:50:08 All I find is "regional settings" ;p Mar 28 13:50:35 so when i disable update automatically, it knows i'm gmt+1, but when i re-enable it, it goes back to gmt +0 Mar 28 13:51:08 odds are there's a bug setting TZ to GMT/UTC and that one isn't supposed to see any DST Mar 28 13:52:05 i think i'm just going to give up on automagical time updates Mar 28 13:52:07 I forget the difference between UTC and GMT... wait.. one has the leap seconds and the other doesn't? And then there's GPS time too, and I don't remember what was different with that either :P Mar 28 13:52:50 thanks fols Mar 28 13:53:37 ShadowJK, Both UTC and GMT have leap seconds. GPS time does not. Mar 28 13:53:42 friggin notice there's "auto update" for time. WHY was bothered to install ntpd?? Mar 28 13:54:06 is this a new feature of >1.0, or am I just stupid? Mar 28 13:54:13 DocScrutinizer, I think it uses time data from GSM, and lots of operators are incompetent, so there's a use case for ntpd as well ;) Mar 28 13:54:20 iirc it was there since 1.0? Mar 28 13:54:45 hmmm Mar 28 13:55:01 ~spank DocScrutinizer Mar 28 13:55:03 * haltdef wobbles ShadowJK Mar 28 13:55:09 * infobot bends DocScrutinizer over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on DocScrutinizer's pasty white buttocks. Mar 28 13:56:43 * DocScrutinizer ponders whether to uninstall ntpd and give "auto update" a try, or just happy along with the perfectly working setup Mar 28 13:57:24 update automatically doesnt work properly for me Mar 28 13:57:32 you're doing it wrong if you have an n900 and don't mess with it for no reason :D Mar 28 13:57:40 k, thanks mate :-) Mar 28 13:58:00 not sure why, but my device just seems to ignore the operator broadcast time entirely Mar 28 13:59:00 operator broadcast time is fubar and rotten to the root anyway. Seems every carrier has its own ideas about it Mar 28 14:00:02 at least that's what I recall from OM and FSO tinkering with it Mar 28 14:01:21 and worst of all: your system time might skip unadvertedly while traveling, or when living close to a border Mar 28 14:01:47 "Some time in the 22nd century, two leap seconds will be required every year. The current use of only the leap second opportunities in June and December will be insufficient, and the March and September options will have to be used. In the 25th century, four leap seconds will be required every year, so the current quarterly options will be insufficient. Thereafter there will need to be the possibility of leap seconds at the end of any month. In about two Mar 28 14:01:54 thousand years even that will become insufficient, and there will have to be leap seconds that are not at the end of a month." Mar 28 14:02:44 cooooool Mar 28 14:03:53 y3k problem preprogrammed Mar 28 14:04:49 the table of leapseconds will be megabytes big Mar 28 14:04:58 but then we'll laugh at worrying about measly megabytes Mar 28 14:05:43 GAN900: bug #6382 Mar 28 14:05:44 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6382 Device becomes sluggish after several days Mar 28 14:05:47 methinks we should tune definition of a second / jiffy, rather than use those nasty leap seconds Mar 28 14:05:53 GAN900: Raise hell, if you still can Mar 28 14:08:13 ooh shit, scratch that. It'll mess all SI units, all astronomy, and even FM radio dials Mar 28 14:08:32 :-P Mar 28 14:08:50 "n the 1970s, it became clear that the clocks participating in TAI (International Atomic Time) were ticking at different rates due to gravitational time dilation, and the combined TAI scale therefore corresponded to an average of the altitudes of the various clocks." Mar 28 14:09:03 time is fuzzy Mar 28 14:09:38 time is relative. That's what Einstein tought us Mar 28 14:10:08 And the doctor. Mar 28 14:14:26 MOAR gigantic tide powerplants - I want a 30 hours day Mar 28 14:28:50 Celesteh: what country? Mar 28 14:36:35 C-S-B-N900: he's gone Mar 28 14:43:13 like everything in my life :( Mar 28 14:43:43 in case anyone cared, my phone in UK set it self right. Mar 28 14:48:29 mine did as well Mar 28 14:48:39 my time updated properly as well, but it still doesnt maintain the right time broadcast by o2 Mar 28 14:49:22 C-S-B-N900: you seem an outdoors-y type right? Mar 28 14:49:57 lol, why? I dont think im that outdoorsy at all. Mar 28 14:50:22 well even if not, any chance of a read + vote here plx? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48497 Mar 28 14:51:16 where are you based nidO ? Mar 28 14:51:24 its a real pet-hate of mine that "non-developer" companies/organisations decide to "get with the times" by releasing only an iphone app as though the other 83% of smartphones dont exist, trying to change that with the national trust at least Mar 28 14:51:27 im in norwich Mar 28 14:52:45 i detest iphone as a result. Mar 28 14:53:16 im down in bucks. we have some nice areas here also. Mar 28 14:53:19 if i can get the national trust to release that app for maemo, and wagamama to do the same with their online ordering app, ill be happy \o/ Mar 28 14:54:38 Ah, the revolt in maemo-developers! Mar 28 14:54:49 Took a while...longer than I thought Mar 28 14:54:51 wagama app would be good, my gf asked me if i could do it on my phone after seeing the iphone ad in the restaurent. Mar 28 14:55:08 they should just have good apis. Mar 28 14:55:14 yeah pisses me off every time me and my girlfriend are there looking at the bigass add plastered on every placemat Mar 28 14:55:29 then the community can make a far better solution than they would. Mar 28 14:55:34 RST38h: which one? Mar 28 14:55:39 her with her winmo phone, and me with maemo, knowing we still have to use their shitty website to order online :< Mar 28 14:55:51 the iphone is clever marketing, as with all apple. Mar 28 14:55:58 Stskeeps: Khertan decided to fold it and move to his own repo Mar 28 14:56:12 wasnt that a while ago? Mar 28 14:56:24 the website is not that bad when the n900 renders it so well. Mar 28 14:56:33 nido i voted btw. Mar 28 14:56:39 cheers \o/ Mar 28 14:57:33 im sorry to asl you, just interested. Mar 28 14:58:22 hm, well you already have the s and the l now :) Mar 28 14:58:32 and im 25. Mar 28 14:59:13 im 26 going on 27, linux/win admin. Mar 28 14:59:37 RST38h: ah, yes Mar 28 14:59:42 as of next week im a purely nix admin, we've had a win2003 server for the past couple of years thats finally being shutdown Mar 28 14:59:45 \o/ Mar 28 14:59:46 currently unemployed. :( Mar 28 15:00:13 kill it. Mar 28 15:00:25 what distro are you rolling? Mar 28 15:01:11 you arent using exchange? i like your company. Mar 28 15:01:30 centos and debian lenny Mar 28 15:01:52 our vps nodes run proxmox (openvz) which runs on debian Mar 28 15:01:59 Stskeeps: What was the breaking point for him, anyway? Something with autobuilder breaking python packages? Mar 28 15:02:13 and no exchance, we're a nix hosting outfit :> Mar 28 15:02:17 exchange* Mar 28 15:02:25 cool Mar 28 15:02:46 id like to work for your company. Mar 28 15:03:23 if you're still kicking around this channel in a few months, we're likely to have a tech position available :p Mar 28 15:03:32 may i ask why a nix hosting company even had a win box? Mar 28 15:04:01 we bought out another host a couple of years ago, they had several nix boxes and one win machine as they offered accounts on both Mar 28 15:04:01 bit too far to commute, but i seriously appreciate the info. Mar 28 15:04:45 my commute distance is bedroom <> living room Mar 28 15:04:49 about 10 feet ;) Mar 28 15:05:03 you work remotely? Mar 28 15:05:14 yeah, all our staff work from home Mar 28 15:05:16 RST38h: seems it's more like the alldays changing requirements to push something into extras Mar 28 15:05:17 nice! Mar 28 15:05:39 Doc: Oh, I can confirm that.... Mar 28 15:05:47 you could work from your n900 and save the trip to the living room. Mar 28 15:06:12 RST38h: khertan was fed up with that aiui Mar 28 15:06:20 well one particularly cold winter 4-5 years ago I did spend a few weeks working from the laptop in bed for most of the morning Mar 28 15:06:28 but I think it's better you ask *him* :-) Mar 28 15:06:41 DocS: He is not the first. Mar 28 15:06:44 ooh well, he's not here atm Mar 28 15:06:47 i want your job nido. Mar 28 15:06:58 VDVsx: should students put their ideas in the wiki too? Mar 28 15:09:26 dmj726_n9001, if you want, but if you want discussion, better try the MLs or talk.maemo Mar 28 15:10:20 * DocScrutinizer suspects a conspiration wrt N900 successor. Seems gan9001 and dmj726_n9001 know more than us ordinary mortals :-P Mar 28 15:10:32 ISO9001? Mar 28 15:10:36 LOL Mar 28 15:11:46 tmobile and my wifi conspired to bring me a device from the future. Mar 28 15:12:01 * DocScrutinizer cackles on ISO9001 audited garage business in Istambul, producing fake Addidas Mar 28 15:23:53 someone want to test bug 9744? it's not very labor-intensive ;) Mar 28 15:23:54 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9744 Display active while camera lens open and no picture is taken Mar 28 15:53:39 * C-S-B-N900 's fat sausage finger closed irc. Mar 28 16:07:37 someone do something cool Mar 28 16:07:45 * haltdef strips Mar 28 16:08:09 if that's cool, it's bad Mar 28 16:08:17 if it was hot, it was good Mar 28 16:08:17 :< Mar 28 16:09:12 stupid dpd not doing anything on weekends Mar 28 16:16:57 Hi, would anyone mind to lighten up me a few things about easy debian? Mar 28 16:17:14 ive not used it but i can try... Mar 28 16:17:42 When it's a chroot, how come that when i run "debian lxde" from the menu that the / is mounted as usual? Mar 28 16:19:18 I mean, i can access all the things, like my maemo home, mydocs... Like only lxde was running, and the easy debian was layered on my rootfs Mar 28 16:20:09 check /etc/mtab maybe they are mounted seperately for convieniance. Mar 28 16:22:52 oh Mar 28 16:23:14 seems like only /home is mounted, i thought the whole / was mounted Mar 28 16:23:41 bind mounted /home probably Mar 28 16:25:19 i guess i maybe helped... Mar 28 16:25:57 hello Mar 28 16:26:52 hello Mar 28 16:28:05 while testing n900 wireless i got strange result: ping to router takes 50ms while on laptop (the same network) only 1-2ms. Also when the network is congested ping to 200-500ms (yeah, differences so this high) while on laptop to only 100-150ms Mar 28 16:28:23 is this something with my network router, n900 hardware or maybe wireless driver? Mar 28 16:29:06 power management i bet Mar 28 16:29:12 turn it off and try again. Mar 28 16:29:17 how? Mar 28 16:29:48 in advanced on your connection settings. Mar 28 16:30:12 it will reduce your battery though. ymmv Mar 28 16:30:18 * sp3000 knows nothing about networks Mar 28 16:30:29 but afaiui a common beacon interval is about 300ms Mar 28 16:30:49 so if your avg ping is less than that, something's probably wrong :) Mar 28 16:31:03 C-S-B-N900: thanks Mar 28 16:31:22 (something being, power management, indeed) Mar 28 16:32:02 afaiui laptops generally don't bother since they have comparatively infinite energy to waste Mar 28 16:32:03 i am porting video streaming (more like proxying) app to n900 and i am getting very inconsistent speed compared to the laptop. while trying to find the reason i found the problem with latencies. Mar 28 16:32:35 sp3000: i wasn't looking too deeply, just reeling off stuff ive seen happen before. Mar 28 16:32:50 sp3000: so I can just (I hope it is possible) turn off wifi power management when a stream is being proxied, and turn it on later again Mar 28 16:33:24 JakubS_: you could. Mar 28 16:33:57 just check that it is pm first. Mar 28 16:34:06 might be your dodgy port lol. Mar 28 16:34:39 very dodgy :-) it is based on qt, so whole port was just recompile and it works Mar 28 16:35:12 * sp3000 wonders if there's a market for gold-plated air filters for improving wifi performance Mar 28 16:36:03 if it works in hifi it must work in wifi right? :P Mar 28 16:36:58 guys selling hifi stuff must make millions Mar 28 16:42:51 woo, 2.5ms ping :-) now let's see throughput Mar 28 16:43:25 rock-steady 2mbit/s :-) 3 days of rewriting app to use low-level sockets, staring at 10MB of tcpdump logs and banging my head against the desk and C-S-B-N900 fixes it for me in one minute. Mar 28 16:43:38 IRC really needs 'send beer' option :-) Mar 28 17:04:02 beakon not related to pingtime Mar 28 17:04:27 beakon is just used to detect AP Mar 28 17:04:54 DocScrutinizer: yeah I fixed a major bug; many people couldn't use profile switching and the other script based functions. My mistake was to have a !/bin/bash shebang instead of !/bin/ash D: Mar 28 17:05:08 that's why it worked for you and me and some others but not for many others Mar 28 17:05:09 and to some extent to 'allocate' the channel Mar 28 17:05:50 Shapeshifter: should be #! /bin/sh anyway Mar 28 17:06:11 DocScrutinizer: I thought bash was symlinked to ash by default. and why should it be ash? Mar 28 17:06:15 uhm sh Mar 28 17:07:00 as ash isn't any mandatory unix standard, neither is bash Mar 28 17:07:10 shell on unix is /bin/sh Mar 28 17:07:12 but sh sucks. and ash also sucks Mar 28 17:07:22 so what? Mar 28 17:07:28 ash doesn't know =~ Mar 28 17:07:47 then you need to specify /bin/bash for processor to execute your script Mar 28 17:07:53 or rather, ash's test ( [[ ]] ) Mar 28 17:08:09 DocScrutinizer: but then I'd need to add bash as a dependency ;) maybe I should just do that. Mar 28 17:08:29 you have to know. Mar 28 17:08:51 I'd not prepend *any* shebang for execution Mar 28 17:08:58 Hi, can i set my keyboard so fn+enter=tab, and so? Mar 28 17:09:21 The Tentacled One is having diarrhea tonight... Mar 28 17:09:24 huh Mar 28 17:09:25 Hi, can i set my keyboard so fn+enter=tab, and so? Mar 28 17:12:10 anyone? Mar 28 17:12:26 Shapeshifter: for your own scripts you just have to decide if you want do standard shellscripts with #! /bin/sh, or you need some special bash functions and use #! /bin/bash. The later creates a dependency for your package quite obviously. You have to know if you like it that way Mar 28 17:13:22 hmm Mar 28 17:15:08 DocScrutinizer: well this was just a stupid mistake anyway. the small scripts alarmed ships with are sh compatible. I'll change it to sh in the next release Mar 28 17:22:10 * DocScrutinizer sighs Mar 28 17:22:15 what's wrong Mar 28 17:22:52 netsplit Mar 28 17:23:07 on freenode? nowai Mar 28 17:23:08 :> Mar 28 17:24:57 seems infobot is an another branch than me Mar 28 17:29:10 ~ping Mar 28 17:29:12 ~pong Mar 28 17:29:16 lol Mar 28 17:35:43 wohooooooo Mar 28 17:35:54 laptop listed on ebay :P Mar 28 17:36:04 havn't been on ebay in years!, took me ages! Mar 28 17:38:59 superquiet here today Mar 28 17:39:43 death, desolation, plastic forks Mar 28 17:40:22 * noobmonk3y waves Mar 28 17:47:16 netsplit Mar 28 17:47:23 *day Mar 28 17:48:29 * Stskeeps glares at rpm Mar 28 17:48:33 any estimates 'bout pr 1.2? Mar 28 17:49:54 some time between now and 2020 Mar 28 17:50:00 yw Mar 28 17:50:42 haltdef_: thanks. very helpful! Mar 28 17:50:59 * RST38h moos absent mindedly Mar 28 17:51:48 Ah. Arkenoi. Mar 28 17:53:11 hummz Mar 28 17:53:46 would moving /var/cache or /home/user/MyDocs off to the internal memory and symlinking to it cause my os2008 to be stuck in a reboot loop? Mar 28 17:54:10 yes, and it will rain flying monkeys Mar 28 17:54:43 so i guess thats a no Mar 28 17:55:42 Stskeeps: BTW, given that Autobuilder has switched to PR1.2, does it mean that any package submitted to it from now on will not run on any of the users' N900s? Mar 28 17:56:02 (until PR1.2 is released and they upgrade to it that is) Mar 28 17:57:10 PR1.2 is for next week ? Mar 28 17:57:25 pr1.2 is for sometime soonish Mar 28 17:57:42 soonish? today ? Mar 28 17:57:53 ... Mar 28 17:57:58 * RST38h rereads his question, searching for the spot where he mentioned PR1.2 release date Mar 28 17:57:58 Chiku|dc: ask yourself, does it really matter? Mar 28 17:58:28 RST38h you said the word pr1.2, that obviously means you know when its coming. Mar 28 17:58:29 duh Mar 28 17:58:33 Shapeshifter, Yes! Mar 28 17:58:56 Oh, the new generation of the net users simply reacts to keywords... Mar 28 17:59:01 Hmm.. Does anyone know how to set up the Nokia N900 with a private rsa-key to auto authenticate when using ssh? Mar 28 17:59:07 all heil the twitter... Mar 28 17:59:35 When I try it says I have to unlock the private key each time I connect. Mar 28 18:00:31 you mean ssh to the n900? Mar 28 18:00:45 quack. Mar 28 18:00:55 reggna: mh? but do you mean, a private rsa-key? you just put the pub key of the box your connecting from into the n900s authorized_hosts file Mar 28 18:01:01 s/but/what/ Mar 28 18:01:01 Shapeshifter meant: reggna: mh? what do you mean, a private rsa-key? you just put the pub key of the box your connecting from into the n900s authorized_hosts file Mar 28 18:01:10 *rolleyes Mar 28 18:01:14 what a useless bot feature Mar 28 18:01:29 humans can parse s/// Mar 28 18:02:20 SpeedEvil: No, the other way around, connecting from the N900 to a server. Mar 28 18:02:39 so just reverse the process Mar 28 18:02:49 Shapeshifter: Yes, but when I do it says I have to unlock the key each time I try to connect to the server. Mar 28 18:03:23 put your private key on your .ssh folder on n900 and pub key on your remote one Mar 28 18:03:27 Googled it found that ssh-agent needs to be running Mar 28 18:04:25 But it does not work even with ssh-agent wrapping my terminal. Mar 28 18:04:49 ssh-add -l tells me that my key has been added. Mar 28 18:05:16 Butt I still needs to provide password to unlock the key each time I connect. Mar 28 18:05:18 *-s Mar 28 18:05:45 put the public key in the .ssh/authorized_keys file on the server Mar 28 18:06:02 and put the private key in .ssh/ on your nokia Mar 28 18:06:09 its usually called id_dsa or stmg Mar 28 18:06:40 I've done that, and everything works fine when i try it on my laptop (with the same key). Mar 28 18:06:58 Hmm.. Maby should try to generate a new key from the N900.. Mar 28 18:07:10 did you try it with -i to specify the private key? Mar 28 18:07:37 I simpl.y copied my laptops ~/.ssh Mar 28 18:07:52 and it simply worked Mar 28 18:08:24 atiti: Yes, still got the "Enter passphrase for key '.ssh/id_rsa'"-message Mar 28 18:09:19 and you didnt specify a passphrase when you created the pub/priv key? Mar 28 18:09:34 a1 Mar 28 18:11:39 20:07:37 < SpeedEvil> I simpl.y copied my laptops ~/.ssh Mar 28 18:11:43 Pretty much what I did too. Mar 28 18:12:59 Shapeshifter: humans can also parse s/x/y Mar 28 18:12:59 atiti: Sure I did, is it even possible to create a key pair without a passphrase? Mar 28 18:13:05 atiti: Or what do you mean? Mar 28 18:13:22 s/humans/apes/ as well Mar 28 18:13:35 is there any container at the top of a HildonTouchSelector such that its contents will move out of view when I scroll the selector (like the action area of a HildonTreeView, as used for the "New message" button at the top of the mail box views in Modest)? Mar 28 18:15:05 atiti: When I try to connect to my server, it tells me to "Enter passphrase for key '/home/user/.ssh/id_rsa'". Mar 28 18:15:24 atiti: I enter the same passphrase I did when creating the key, and I get logged in. Mar 28 18:15:37 atiti: The next time i try to connect, it does the same thing. Mar 28 18:15:51 wtf are you able to make up your mind whether to ssh *into* N900, or *from* N900 *into another server*? Mar 28 18:16:19 Did I say into? Mar 28 18:16:58 Hmm. WinSCP send to shell extension is nice with N900 <3 Mar 28 18:17:02 nah, but adding some shit to .ssh/authorized_keys on N900 is for ssh'ing IN Mar 28 18:17:11 DocScrutinizer: Ah, sorry. Mar 28 18:18:03 and if you created your key to use a passphrase, then it obviously will ask for that passphrase each time you gonna use it Mar 28 18:18:22 create a key without passphrase, to get rid of that Mar 28 18:20:58 Ah, think I get it.. The keyrig on my laptop fooled me.. Mar 28 18:21:00 DocScrutinizer: Tanks. Mar 28 18:21:04 *h Mar 28 18:21:42 'n Mar 28 18:30:33 RST38h: no idea, keep in mind extras-devel has a new URL for pr1.2 Mar 28 18:30:38 so they won't even see it Mar 28 18:34:31 reggna: better idea is to start ssh-agent once per session (by putting some script to /etc/X11/Xsession.d) Mar 28 18:34:38 So it will ask for key only once. Mar 28 18:34:41 a new url..? Mar 28 18:34:50 doesn't seem logical for me Mar 28 18:34:53 w/e Mar 28 18:36:15 can that be the reason why I cannot meet the dependencies for some of the latest updates? Mar 28 18:36:20 e.g. Tuner Mar 28 18:36:52 something to do with libhildon1 and libpixman-1-0 Mar 28 18:37:20 dottedmag: That sounded something like what I was looking for. Thank you. :) Mar 28 18:37:30 it is weird because the updates seem to require an older version from these libraries than the one I already have Mar 28 18:37:33 any tips/ideas? Mar 28 18:37:52 reggna: let me know if you find/compile GUI dialog for asking for passphrase, I miss it :) Mar 28 18:46:29 * DocScrutinizer wonders where zenity might have dropped off the table Mar 28 18:49:08 * Stskeeps wonders who invented rpmbuild and thinks he needs a lesson with a baseball bat in developer friendliness Mar 28 18:49:52 lol Mar 28 18:50:33 hah Mar 28 18:51:06 i like yum/zypper/spec/etc until i got to this piece of shit Mar 28 18:51:07 :P Mar 28 19:01:49 Stskeeps, why? Mar 28 19:02:37 i mean, they have a perfectly sane format for a directory with sources + patches and a .spec.. Mar 28 19:02:50 and then the whole BUILD, BUILDROOT, SRPMS, SPECS, SOURCES etc stuff Mar 28 19:04:26 imho it's better to have things separated than to have everything in one bundle, like in dpkg Mar 28 19:04:52 well yes Mar 28 19:05:13 but when a source rpm is a flat directory structure, why doesn't rpmbuild take a nice directory with a spec in it? :P Mar 28 19:05:43 (i'm not pro or con any certain formats, i'm trying to do something :P) Mar 28 19:06:29 so you have problem with SPECS and SOURCES separation Mar 28 19:06:51 I'm not sure, but I think we have this fixed in pld Mar 28 19:06:53 right, or rather, the need to set up a bunch of directories Mar 28 19:07:01 and not simply abstracting this way Mar 28 19:07:02 away Mar 28 19:07:12 rpm --init-build-tree or something Mar 28 19:08:14 instead of a simple "here's a spec, please build it, resolve Source0/ etc using the directory the spec is in" Mar 28 19:10:04 wolf^: so, you're good with rpms and such? got some time to give me feedback on some things? Mar 28 19:10:22 in pld we have "builder" script Mar 28 19:10:38 it automates fetching specs, patches from cvs, and sources from external ftp Mar 28 19:10:48 :nod: Mar 28 19:10:56 :shake: Mar 28 19:11:04 Stskeeps, yes, I'm using it, ask away Mar 28 19:11:13 working on http://wiki.meego.com/User:Stskeeps/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment currently Mar 28 19:11:49 eventually it would hopefully be down to a 'osc build' instead of the rpmbuild insanity Mar 28 19:11:52 Stskeeps: This does not look very easy Mar 28 19:12:06 RST38h: i don't like it either Mar 28 19:12:07 cool Mar 28 19:12:10 my test worked Mar 28 19:12:16 I just got back from the test. Mar 28 19:12:23 what test? :P Mar 28 19:12:31 to get laid by using the N900 Mar 28 19:12:38 excellent Mar 28 19:12:50 How'd that work out? Mar 28 19:13:01 * RST38h can see it immediately that he will not be able to set this up on Ubuntu Mar 28 19:13:42 RST38h: which parts are blocking? Mar 28 19:13:58 went to some disco, talked to some girl, impressed her with some gimmicks (the FM transmissor, her cellphone had FM radio) - accelerometer, photos, I was kind of drunk, don't remember exactly what I showed her Mar 28 19:14:30 RST38h: actually, mic2 is a big one that might cause issues.. Mar 28 19:15:10 Stskeeps, "rpmbuild --install-build-tree" prepares the build directory Mar 28 19:15:49 Stskeeps, with default rpm scripts it's always ~/rpm Mar 28 19:16:24 RST38h: either way, this isn't how things should be like :P Mar 28 19:16:36 wolf^: no such option in my rpmbuild for some reason Mar 28 19:16:57 % rpm --version Mar 28 19:16:57 RPM version 4.4.9 Mar 28 19:17:09 hrm :P Mar 28 19:17:28 RPM? Mar 28 19:17:39 shouldn't that be in #MeeGo? Mar 28 19:17:47 Stskeeps, I think you should be able to just do rpm -i blah.srpm and have spec + patches + sources in SPECS and SOURCES automatically Mar 28 19:17:56 but I don't use srpms, so I'm not sure Mar 28 19:18:05 MohammadAG: discussion started here, so shush :P Mar 28 19:18:53 hi.. what's the easiest way to sync kaddressbooks contacts (kde 4.3) with the n900? Mar 28 19:18:57 Stskeeps, I wouldn't redefine _topdir, and just kept everything in ~/rpm Mar 28 19:19:11 mmk Mar 28 19:19:14 ta Mar 28 19:19:21 SpeedEvil: (from dmesg) [41874.176757] wlan0: roaming signal from driver, sending LOWSIGNAL Mar 28 19:20:13 ptl: hopefully not your private parts. most likely or your hope is gone if you did that Mar 28 19:20:20 Stskeeps, sorry :P Mar 28 19:20:20 hmm Mar 28 19:20:21 Stskeeps, assuming you are doing build based on srpm, you may want to pass -bb (build binary) to rpmbuild, instead of -ba (build all), which also creates srpm Mar 28 19:20:30 ptl: or -> all Mar 28 19:20:48 wolf^: thanks, will do some rewriting Mar 28 19:20:55 SpeedEvil: hmm? Mar 28 19:21:14 yes Mar 28 19:21:19 SpeedEvil: a lil more enthusiasm please :-P Mar 28 19:21:25 * SpeedEvil reboots. Mar 28 19:23:33 Scelt: but the test went ok, it was successful. :) Mar 28 19:23:56 http://patola.org/leticia1.jpg is the "data" I used for this test Mar 28 19:25:42 DocScrutinizer, I reserve enthusiasm for days I have moved under 2 tons of soil.. Mar 28 19:25:43 not bad Mar 28 19:26:06 I've just seen now that the thread for this issue has been deleted Mar 28 19:26:12 so I can post the results of my test. Mar 28 19:26:12 too bad Mar 28 19:26:24 *so I can't Mar 28 19:31:32 heh, there's a way to delete tmo threads? PLEASE, make that available to everybody XP Mar 28 19:33:10 Wouls anyone find a document reader useful for the n900? Mar 28 19:33:23 *would Mar 28 19:34:31 dmj726_n900: like word/odf etc? Mar 28 19:35:17 * SpeedEvil reads books using fbreader Mar 28 19:35:28 * DocScrutinizer just skimmed about 40 posts in a thread on "fancy bits on N900" or somesuch crap, to find the ONE post that's not about well documented-in-wiki shortcuts. That one was lshal|grep percent - - Mar 28 19:35:39 no, like you take a photo, and it reads the document (ocr, formatting, and text to speech) Mar 28 19:36:29 a bit like a scanner...mmm. Mar 28 19:36:44 yep Mar 28 19:36:52 I read book using FBReader and evince Mar 28 19:36:54 i dont know how often i have printed media i cant get digital. Mar 28 19:37:02 evince is great for reading pdfs and has kinetic scrolling Mar 28 19:37:02 phototranslate Mar 28 19:37:07 oh Mar 28 19:37:17 see docscrutinizer Mar 28 19:37:18 A big part of the audience would be blind users Mar 28 19:37:28 thats the only use for ocr. Mar 28 19:37:32 for me. Mar 28 19:37:34 wrecks flashlight Mar 28 19:38:06 * C-S-B-N900 wrecks fleshlight Mar 28 19:39:08 but I'm gauging how much sighted people would find this useful. Mar 28 19:39:15 I can think of a few occasions I would have liked to ocr photos. Mar 28 19:39:47 yeah, it would be novel for a few situations Mar 28 19:43:02 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48548 Mar 28 19:45:52 When the hell does the election end? Mar 28 19:47:01 good question Mar 28 19:47:31 GAN: Are you in? =) Mar 28 19:49:34 23:59 UTC March 29th, I think. Mar 28 19:49:40 But I have no idea. Mar 28 19:49:43 Jaffa? Mar 28 19:50:15 not 23:39 yet for sure :P Mar 28 19:50:17 er, 59 Mar 28 19:50:33 Yeah, that I realize. :P Mar 28 19:50:46 MWKN Mar 28 19:51:44 GAN900: Yeah? Mar 28 19:52:00 GAN900: Oh. Hmm. Mar 28 19:52:17 Well, it started 00:00 on Wednesday, so it'll finish 23:59 on Tuesday Mar 28 19:53:27 GAN900: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q1_2010 agrees Mar 28 20:06:28 sup pimps Mar 28 20:06:31 dmj726_n900, Mar 28 20:06:40 how would you like to test my latest blender build Mar 28 20:06:49 I have the lag down in software to under 1 second Mar 28 20:08:05 cool Mar 28 20:08:32 kamui, neat Mar 28 20:08:33 but that is slow Mar 28 20:08:53 its still slow pupnik Mar 28 20:08:54 yes Mar 28 20:08:55 but Mar 28 20:09:00 it was over 2 seconds before Mar 28 20:09:31 its probably running around 5-8 fps now Mar 28 20:09:35 which is very usable Mar 28 20:09:54 Im still working on the wrapper, but I think at this point the other gles wrappers might be the way to go Mar 28 20:10:16 I would need to completely redo my build environment though, so I've been lazy about doing as much Mar 28 20:10:35 GAN900: Going to take a small break from fleshing out the issue to deal with a couple of site bugs Mar 28 20:10:40 thinking about setting up a new virtual build environemnt in 7 instead of tainting my debian box further Mar 28 20:10:56 Jaffa, going to take a small break to eat, momentarily. :P Mar 28 20:14:58 kamui 5-8 fps for blender, not too bad. Mar 28 20:18:59 kamui, n900 arriving tomorrow :> Mar 28 20:19:39 nice kamui :) Mar 28 20:24:52 haltdef_: woot! Mar 28 20:25:15 I'm hoping I'll be blown away Mar 28 20:25:38 coming from an xperia x1, always had windows mobile since I switched from palm OS in 2003 :P Mar 28 20:25:39 What's the best way to get the open windows? Mar 28 20:26:59 open windows? Mar 28 20:27:30 yes, to make an alternate task switcher Mar 28 20:27:33 haltdef_: i was blown away, but helps if you are a linux hacker Mar 28 20:27:54 I don't like linux on the desktop but I am familiar with it Mar 28 20:28:08 the idea of linux in my pocket though .. moist Mar 28 20:28:13 Yes, anyone who is a fan of desktop linux will love the n900. Mar 28 20:28:15 not android, proper linux :P Mar 28 20:28:29 that's what maemo is. Mar 28 20:28:30 why dont you like linux on the desktop Mar 28 20:28:45 its like a desktop pc in your pocket. Mar 28 20:29:08 windows just works, linux needed hackery to get the simplest of things working Mar 28 20:29:21 it really doesn't. Mar 28 20:29:29 but heck Mar 28 20:29:31 this was a few years ago now Mar 28 20:29:40 point in hand Mar 28 20:30:00 linux on the desktop is very different than a few years ago. Mar 28 20:30:11 also I enjoy haxing at video files, all of the tools are on windows :p Mar 28 20:30:12 youd be plesently surprised with ubuntu these days Mar 28 20:30:42 For games and video editing windows has better application availability Mar 28 20:31:06 everything else, ubuntu is quite capable Mar 28 20:31:46 and even video editing ubuntu is now supplying a solution. Mar 28 20:31:47 on a side note: n900 + microsd = liveusb Mar 28 20:32:09 though when you *know* linux, ubuntu is overly annoying. and it's slow. and the only reason most stuff "just works" is because the whole universe is pulled in as a dependency when installing something. Mar 28 20:32:12 It's a pretty basic editor, but not broken. Mar 28 20:32:35 I probably won't be using my microsd, that'll be strange Mar 28 20:32:47 all devices I've owned so far have had tiny amounts of internal storage Mar 28 20:33:01 with 32gb onbaord, you dont need to. Mar 28 20:33:05 mm Mar 28 20:33:11 I can't fill 8GB :P Mar 28 20:33:26 I can hardly fill 8gb on my laptop Mar 28 20:33:42 I can, but you have to leave the camera on for an hour at a time. Mar 28 20:34:43 heh Mar 28 20:34:43 any way to hit meta in xterm on the n900? Mar 28 20:34:57 i'm debating packing mine with audio and video. Mar 28 20:35:14 yea that's the plan Mar 28 20:35:30 pack it with av stuff, it's handy Mar 28 20:35:41 Ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/424/ Mar 28 20:36:05 playing vids without renecoding them to a tv Mar 28 20:36:10 is awesome Mar 28 20:36:41 I'm looking forward to that, my x1 just can't do that Mar 28 20:36:54 which is retarded because my much older htc universal can Mar 28 20:37:49 n900 can be used as a decently competent media center pc. Mar 28 20:38:13 just avoid HD video and you'll be fine. Mar 28 20:38:19 grishnav: esc often does meta Mar 28 20:38:25 grishnav: the onscreen esc Mar 28 20:39:00 hd video lol, even the netbook falls at that hurdle. Mar 28 20:39:01 Shapeshifter: shoulda been more specific... any way to hold it down while pressing a number? :P Mar 28 20:39:13 Shapeshifter: I'm trying to switch windows in irssi without doing /window Mar 28 20:39:26 grishnav: esc works Mar 28 20:39:42 grishnav: it's finger acrobatics but it works Mar 28 20:40:04 Shapeshifter: cant seem to get it to... Mar 28 20:40:25 xchat uses the volume keys to move between windows Mar 28 20:40:30 grishnav: actually, do this: Mar 28 20:40:40 C-S-B-N900: fuck yeah Mar 28 20:40:47 grishnav: hit esc (and release), then hit the number Mar 28 20:41:00 grishnav: tried it just now and it works. doesn't work if you keep esc pressed ;) Mar 28 20:41:05 Shapeshifter: that works too. thanks! Mar 28 20:41:41 C-S-B-N900, or shifted numbers. (with my bindings) Mar 28 20:41:57 ooooh. :) Mar 28 20:43:20 C-S-B-N900, annoyingly - symbol - foo can't be bound. Mar 28 21:15:31 hey guys Mar 28 21:15:39 hi Mar 28 21:15:48 anybody knows how many slots Maemo got for GSoC? Mar 28 21:17:30 hmmm does pygst exist on the n900? Mar 28 21:18:18 hmm ask vdvsx Mar 28 21:56:48 anyone have the homepage for E-Coach? Does the author have a tip jar? Mar 28 22:02:45 http://ecoach.garage.maemo.org/ Mar 28 22:20:03 mikkov - thanks Mar 28 22:21:45 GAN900: ping Mar 28 22:23:14 Jaffa, pong. Mar 28 22:25:10 GAN900: Getting close to giving up; with 5 left... Mar 28 22:25:38 Jaffa, that's fine, I can pick up the rest in the next hour or two. Mar 28 22:25:51 GAN900: Cool, much appreciated. Mar 28 22:50:42 Hi all Mar 28 22:51:38 Is there someone who uses SDL functions to get keyboard keys with Maemo 5? Mar 28 22:53:44 No one? Mar 28 23:52:30 * SpeedEvil wishes there was a stylus sensor. Mar 29 00:15:37 heh, back to the old topic? Mar 29 00:17:14 actually a third one of those IR-switches hadn't added much to the BOM Mar 29 00:29:56 SpeedEvil: lost your stylus? Mar 29 00:30:19 indeed. Mar 29 00:30:27 hello... How to send signal DBus to change orientation in n900?? Mar 29 00:30:27 shit Mar 29 00:30:36 replaced it with a suitable twig. Mar 29 00:32:19 pablo2, I don't know of a DBus signal to do it, but I can tell you a library call that will do it. Mar 29 00:32:39 hmm, the n810 stylus is just a tiny bit different, so it doesn't match Mar 29 00:33:14 Ken-Young, what? Mar 29 00:35:06 pablo2, hildon_gtk_window_set_portrait_flags() Mar 29 00:38:01 Ken-Young, thanks Mar 29 00:38:20 Ken-Young, i'll use in shell script Mar 29 00:42:27 * DocScrutinizer wonders if a shellscript can change xterm to portrait. Or if a shellscript could set even another alien window to portrait Mar 29 00:43:14 Does pr1.2 have more complete support for portrait mode? Mar 29 00:44:02 hi, how can i prepend an dns suffix do i just add search X.X to resolv.conf? Mar 29 00:45:14 i hate when XChat tells me i have new messages on this channel but it has been so long they scrolled off T_T Mar 29 00:45:18 my wall charger no longer works, will nokia replace it i just bought this thing... Mar 29 00:45:46 i think joikuspot broke my wall charger... Mar 29 00:47:51 I don't think that's possible Mar 29 00:48:43 that my wall charger no longer works doc? Mar 29 00:49:43 rm_you: there was the idea to have a highlights-catcher tab, quite similar to the URL catcher. But probably it'd need additional functionality to jump to original location in chantab's backscroll Mar 29 00:50:25 yeah T_T Mar 29 00:51:21 ech0dish: i think he means it's probably impossible for joikuspot to break hardware, lol Mar 29 00:51:22 but Mar 29 00:51:39 does charging with the USB cord work? Mar 29 00:55:04 yes Mar 29 00:55:10 he told yesterday Mar 29 00:55:24 ah Mar 29 00:55:36 charger is a 7bucks crap, may break every once in a while Mar 29 00:57:17 probably nokia should replace it, but is it worth the hassle? Mar 29 01:01:00 my n900 ran pretty hot while plugged in with the wall charger right after installing joikuspot, charger wont work now have to use a usb cable :(.. Mar 29 01:01:19 thats why i think joikuspot might of burned the charger.. Mar 29 01:01:37 the n900 wouldn't of ran hot without that app running Mar 29 01:05:22 ech0dish: that's bs. IF it were like that it still were nokia's fault, not any software's. A device mustn't be built in a way so sw can burn chargers, and it definitely isn't Mar 29 01:05:57 the charger was crap. get a new one Mar 29 01:06:37 600$ phone 50 cent charger lol Mar 29 01:06:45 kinda, yes Mar 29 01:08:18 anyway arbitrary USB-chargers will do. There's quite a few ones to be found out there with a USB-A receptacle, for little $$ Mar 29 01:12:21 usb-b Mar 29 01:13:26 think i'll get a dc outlet to a usb outlet and get another usb cable Mar 29 01:13:47 then i can use it for other stuff that uses usb to charge :) Mar 29 01:20:27 ech0dish: are you kidding me? I say A-receptacle, you correct me to B. Next line you say "hey got a good idea. Will get me one with A-outlet" Mar 29 01:24:43 Is there a way to get a list of all the X11 fonts which are available on the N900? Mar 29 01:28:13 DocScrutinizer, lol Mar 29 01:28:49 re Mar 29 01:29:01 Ken-Young: hmmm did not check... no xlsfonts ? Mar 29 01:31:33 indeed not **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 29 02:09:14 2010 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 29 02:44:15 2010 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 29 02:59:57 2010